IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2009-03-08

Stskeepswe have a .. homemade builder infrastructure which is basically an amateurish pbuilder and a scratchbox builder00:00
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lbtwould it be a good idea to start moving to a more scalable thing like mamona/oe? or isn't that a useful discussion yet?00:01
lbtwhen I last used oe I typed 'oe build' and a few days later got a full distro - kinda like gentoo but grown-up :)00:01
lbtanyhoo - my virtualbox only just booted so it's a bit premature.. <grin>00:03
Stskeepsyeah, well, we are closer to debian for the fact most of maemo is debian package based :)00:03
Stskeepsso, that's just a choice00:03
Stskeepsgentoo has some advantages and debian has some, so00:03
Stskeepsand i would say debian packages and building them is quite scalable :P00:04
lbtyeah - I'm just being confused about usind the oe buildsystem to build a set of debian packages - not sure it makes sense or even does that00:04
lbtignore me for a bit whilst I get my head round things :)00:04
RST38hIs it true that GIMP does not let users draw rectangles, circles etc? I cannot find these anywhere in the menus00:06
StskeepsRST38h: the GNU hive mind does not believe in rectangles and circles00:07
lbtRST38h: select a circle/elipse00:08
lbtclick select-to-path00:08
lbtit's just too powerful for the mortal mind00:08
lbthowever inkscape is pretty damned hot too if you want mere geometry00:09
lbt(witness the awesome Shopper logo!)00:10
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RST38hlbt: Ah! Thanks!00:13
RST38hSts: lbt is right - this thing is way too powerful to be usable00:13
lbtoops - Mer captured my mouse00:13
lbtonce you get used to how it works it's very nice :)00:14
woglindehi rst00:14
lbtbut for 'drawing'...00:14
lbthave you tried Xara?00:14
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GAN800lbt, no N810, no rotation atm.00:16
lbtGAN800: OK - I need more testers then ;)00:16
StskeepsGAN800: poll, SSU, possible raging fit, btw..00:16
dick-richardsoncan I talk someone into running ls -lha in ~/ and telling me what the symlink is? I removed mine and would like it back.00:18
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GAN800Stskeeps, raging fit?00:19
StskeepsGAN800: well, ok, maybe a bit exagratted :) but sounds a bit like no more SSUs?00:20
lbtdick-richardson: ?00:20
GAN800Stskeeps, yeah, well, I'm launching a frontal assault on Nokia HQ, so they better watch the fuck out.00:21
lbtGAN800: anything to do with the rotation bug comments... ?00:21
dick-richardsonlbt, there's a symlink in user's home directory that affects UI (hiding the mouse pointer, etc.)...I removed mine for some reason weeks ago and would like it back00:21
lbt.icons -> /usr/share/user-icons is the only symlink I have there00:22
StskeepsGAN800: mm00:22
dick-richardsonthat's the one. :)00:22
* Stskeeps goes back to hn-app-switcher.c and hn-app-button.c00:22
dick-richardsonyou're good people, lbt00:23
lbtwe aim to please00:23
dick-richardsoncan I get the owner and permissions on it?00:23
lbtonly if you promise to download Shopper and test it for me!00:23
dick-richardsonfair enough00:23
lbtsymlinks don't have owner/perms00:24
lbtso root/root is OK00:24
lbtand they appear as lrwxrwxrwx00:24
dick-richardson:) you gotta link to shopper?00:25
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GAN800Seriously, Stskeeps, we didn't go through all that categories bullshit to have Nokia assrape us like this.00:25
lbtas it happens...
lbtyou need extras-devel though00:25
lbtfor Qt00:25
dick-richardsonalready got it00:25
lbtcool ;)00:26
lbtGAN800: where are you getting this?00:26
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GAN800lbt, Mara said no more SSU's.00:27
lbtwhere? - just looking for the source to save you repeating it :)00:27
GAN800Which means no new package categories for Diablo, which means I'm going to start killing people.00:28
GAN800lbt, itT.00:28
StskeepsGAN800: mm, nothing i was directly involved in, but it is the danger of vendor-controlled OS'es00:28
* GAN800 is too lazy to open the browser and copy/paste the URL on a tablet.00:28
lbt's OK00:28
lbtI just dl'ed Mer....00:29
GAN800Stskeeps, doesn't matter, they're still getting hell for it.00:29
lbt(those statements were not connected BTW)00:29
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GAN800Seriously, it's not like they didn't have time to integrate it and it's not like we didn't do all they goddamn work.00:30
GAN800They are __NOT__ going to fragment us like this because they're too lazy to ship one more goddamn update.00:31
lbtI could point out that there's a major credit crunch on at the moment and this  could not be the best timing on either side...00:31
lbtI do hear what you say though00:32
GAN800lbt, not flying here. :)00:33
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lbtit may (or may not be) a factor00:33
dick-richardsoncouldn't that work be applied in rx-<next_version_to_be_released_with_new_hardware>?00:33
lbtif it supports N8x0 ?00:34
dick-richardsonwell, yeah00:34
dick-richardsonor in the back-ported version that is00:35
lbtsomeone was on earlier trying to run my apps on her N77000:35
dick-richardsonor is Mer it?00:35
lbtmy Diablo app00:35
GAN800We can't ship two separate sets of categories for Diablo and Fremantle.00:35
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lcuk3 if mer has to stand alone :P00:39
dick-richardsondamnit my wife already left. I was gonna have her test your app, lbt00:39
lbtheh - no worries00:40
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lbtStskeeps: so how do I setup a/the builder?00:49
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woglindegood nite00:56
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lbtStskeeps: basically I need to be able to run or fool ./configure01:07
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* b-man installs google-gadgets-gtk in his ubuntu install on his N800 :)03:56
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Macerdamn debian kicks ass :)05:09
Maceri'm really liking it now heh05:09
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* b-man_ubuntu is chatting from ubuntu on his N800 atm :)05:15
Shadow__Xb-man_ubuntu,  keyboard?05:16
b-man_ubuntuxkbd :)05:17
b-man_ubuntui'm also running google-gadgets :D05:18
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jaemqwerty12: around?05:41
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b-man_ubuntu~seen qwerty1205:48
infobotqwerty12 <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 11h 10m 49s ago, saying: 'np'.05:49
b-man_ubuntu~seen qwerty12_N80005:49
infobotqwerty12_n800 is currently on #maemo (7h 1m 54s). Has said a total of 4 messages. Is idling for 6h 25m 12s, last said: 'ah'.05:49
jaemdoes anyone know if qwerty12's conky deb on maemobox is fully working?05:49
jaeme.g. has anyone tried it?05:50
b-man_ubuntuit worked for me05:50
jaemthat's good, thanks05:51
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jaemb-man_ubuntu: did you come to any conclusions about why the Ubuntu ts calibration was off for me?05:51
jaemI can't really give it another try until after exams (Friday)05:52
b-man_ubuntui think it is the tslib package, when i installed it i had the same problem05:53
jaemthe tslib package from where?05:53
b-man_ubuntuubuntu-n8x0 repo05:54
jaemI'm looking forward to checking it out again - I might give neatojones' E17 packages a spin05:54
b-man_ubuntui'd just remove it ;)05:54
jaemI'm not normally a fan of E17, but Illume looks like it's worth trying05:54
jaemthe sliding "shelves' (or whatever they're called) reminded me of an MID mockup I saw a while back05:55
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b-man_ubuntuit looks really awsome :D05:55
jaemit was a widescreen form factor, but probably half again as wide as the N8x0, and it has a split keyboard on the two sides05:55
jaemthat presumably slid out when you tapped something05:56
jaem(on-screen kbd, that is)05:56
jaemI'm still waiting for KDE MID edition :P05:56
* jaem checks commit history on plasma-mid05:57
jaemit's a version of plasma for MIDs, not surprisingly05:57
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jaemhmm... some recent work, but not much05:58
b-man_ubuntubtw, i'm going to remove that tslib dependence from tablet-x to fix that touchscreen problem05:59
jaemokay, thanks05:59
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* b-man_ubuntu doesn't even know why he put that in there in the first place XD06:00
jaemand the performance?  Was that just me?06:01
b-man_ubuntuit was a late night :)06:01
jaemah yes... I remember when I was first learning Linux, I was doing stuff late at night...06:01
jaem...and moved /usr/* to a subdirectory of /usr >_<06:02
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jaemthe nice thing about Linux, though, is that you can trash your system, and still often fix it06:02
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b-man_ubuntuindeed :)06:02
jaemsometimes, if I'm uninstalling my desktop, I won't even bother to drop to runlevel 3 - just because I can06:02
jaemI heard a story about some guys with a VAX back in the day, who blammoed /etc and most of /bin on a box that they couldn't take down to fix06:03
jaemand they managed to set it right :D06:03
b-man_ubuntuthat's interesting :)06:05
jaemah - here we go:
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benson Heheh.06:22
bensonClosest thing I've ever done was burned busybox on an N800.06:22
jaemwas that fun?06:22
bensonWas... interesting.06:22
bensonI was surprised that I actually succeeded.06:23
bensonOf course, having another machine handy helps.06:23
jaemyeah, definitely06:23
* jaem needs to pick up another 8GB microSD card06:23
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* b-man_ubuntu has actually deleted /proc once - was not a nice site :P06:27
b-man_ubuntui allmost ruined my tablet06:28
jaemoh yay - my BT dongle does still work06:30
jaemI thought it was fried06:30
jaemmy uni always has booths selling stuff one of the main buildings06:30
jaemand I think there must be a rule that you have to sell really sketchy merchandise to be allowed in there :P06:31
jaemmy BT dongle has a MAC of 00:00:00:00:00:00 >_<06:31
ShadowJKjaem, linux?06:31
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jaemalso, the build style indicates that it was likely made by the same company that made one of my flash drives... the one that now is a PCB wrapped in duct tape >_<06:32
jaemShadowJK: what about it?06:32
ShadowJKIf linux, "hciconfig hci0 version", and paste the Manufacturer line :)06:32
jaemoh right06:32
jaemI wasn't sure what you were getting at06:33
ShadowJKwhich is the manufacturer of the radio, not the guys who soldered it to a pcb and slapped plastic around it :)06:33
ShadowJKbut interesting nonetheless06:33
jaemyeah, I know06:33
jaemCan't read version info hci0: Connection timed out (110)06:33
* jaem facepalms06:33
ShadowJKunplug, replug :-)06:34
jaemstill doing it06:34
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jaemnot that I'm surprised06:34
jaemthe dongle had a RED bluetooth logo on the box06:34
ShadowJKunplug, restart hcid/bluetoothd/bluez, whatever it's called in your distro, replug06:34
jaemoh there we go06:35
jaemmy mistake (wasn't thinking)06:35
jaemthe MAC is actually 11:11:11:11:11:1106:35
jaemthat's what I meant to say06:36
ShadowJKI bet it's ISSC06:36
jaem        Manufacturer: CONWISE Technology Corporation Ltd (66)06:36
ShadowJKI've never had the misfortune of encountering that before :)06:36
ShadowJK66? That means there are atleast 65 manufacturers producing utter crap bluetooth chips :-(06:36
jaemI took a gamble, since I wanted one right then, and I didn't know of anything else I could get that day that could be guaranteed to work with Linux06:37
jaemthe guy at the booth said he'd be back the next day, if I wanted to return it06:37
jaemit was some weeks later that I found out that they always say that, usually when they won't be back for weeks.06:37
ShadowJKI think they all work in Linux06:38
jaemAlso, if you look at something, and then ask if they'll be back tomorrow after you've thought about it, they insist that it's the last day they'll be there06:38
jaemas I said... sketchy06:38
hugo33When did sketchy stop meaning 'vague' and become 'of ill repute'?06:38
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jaemnot sure :P06:39
hugo33bogus, dude06:39
ShadowJKI have 4 bluetooth dongles... I was surprised the first time I tried to use one with windows XP. Only one of them worked :)06:39
jaemShadowJK: know anything about RFCOMM?06:39
ShadowJK2 wasn't recognized, 1 kinda worked, but connections always broke after 5 seconds06:40
ShadowJKI have a setup with BlueZ 3.x06:40
ShadowJKin BlueZ 4.x they made the bluetooth api incompatible with their own tools, you're supposed to do dbus incantations through interactive python shell or something.06:41
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ShadowJKOr like, use the "user friendly" kde/gnome panel applets06:41
jaemI like Blueman, personally06:41
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ShadowJK3.x was easy-ish to setup06:42
jaemI wish it was Qt-based06:42
* ShadowJK has a little ARM router/nas box connecting to internet via bluetooth and gprs as backup06:43
ShadowJKIt doesn't have the CPU, diskspace or ram to run any of the bluetooth applets :/06:43
ShadowJKand no graphics card either06:44
jaemare there any good sub-$100 (CAD) ARM boards that are Linux-friendly?06:44
jaemthe Beagleboard looks nice, but I can't imagine it being terribly cheap06:44
jaemoh really?06:44
* jaem may look into that06:44
ShadowJKisn't it splattered all over their webpage?06:44
jaemI hadn't actually looked... I was just musing06:44
ShadowJKI'm using a NSLU2 anyway, flashed with openslug06:44
luke-jrNSLU2 is ARM?06:45
luke-jrI figured it was MIPS06:45
ShadowJK"XScale-IXP42x Family rev 1 (v5b)"06:45
ShadowJKat a roaring 133MHz06:45
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ShadowJKhalf a decade old tech ;)06:46
jaemhmmm... and the Beagleboard can run Maemo 5?06:46
jaemor was it just that what can run on the Beagleboard will run on the RX-51?06:47
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ShadowJKdon't know about that06:48
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* ShadowJK wonders how much it would cost to have a sheevaplug shipped to finland :(06:48
jaem:) they look nice06:49
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ShadowJKand cheap06:49
jaemsomeone was speculating a drop to $5006:49
jaemthat would be well worth it, then06:49
jaemI hesitate at the current price06:49
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jaembut it's still not bad06:49
ShadowJKThey themselves speculate $50 on volume06:49
ShadowJKI am guessing this means if you order 10,000 you might get them at $50 each :)06:49
jaemwell, get on it! :D06:50
jaemthis calls for a pyramid scheme!06:50
ShadowJKdunno, the cute formfactor, not too crappy cpu power, and a comfortable .5 gig of ram for 9906:51
ShadowJKdoesn't sound expensive to me06:51
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jaemno, it's a pretty good deal as-is06:51
jaemI agree06:51
jaemI wish it had more I/O, though06:51
jaemand wifi06:51
jaemactually, wifi /would/ be awesome06:53
ShadowJKThe problem is that there's always something new and better announced that you want to wait for06:53
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jaemjust plug it into the wall, jack in a webcam/sensors/appliance/whatever and go06:53
ShadowJKtiny usb hub and usb wlan i gues06:54
jaemthat would work06:54
ShadowJKgood luck finding one with decent drivers though06:54
* ShadowJK decides to sleep06:55
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cwbpdoes anybody here know ralann?07:03
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yukop4need help loading latest streamripper 1.63.5--anyone07:46
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yukop4Thomas Pietrowski can you help with latest strearipper-cannot load on n80007:50
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Stskeepslbt: sudo apt-get install build-essential09:58
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JaffaMorning, all10:13
Jaffalcuk: correct (about vala last night)10:13
lbtThanks Stskeeps - so build inside the vdk - which is why it's a v "dk" ... OK10:14
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Stskeepsnah, ita just cos sdk and os isn't seperate10:21
Stskeepsits just a mer disk image10:22
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* Stskeeps yawns10:31
* timelE61i ponders sleep10:41
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* Stskeeps wakes up with coffee and a fresh look at hn-app-button.c10:42
lbtb4 you do10:47
lbtdoes virtualbox provide a dhcp server?10:47
lbtmy vb has a ip10:47
lbtwhich is wrong10:47
Stskeepswhen it's in NAT, yeah10:49
Stskeepsyou can adjust the network parameters afaik10:49
lbtOK - I  guess I have to shut down first...10:49
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StskeepsCorsac, lbt:
Stskeepsreally really need artwork though :P11:15
lbtmaybe I should take up graphic design :
aquatixmorning all11:18
Stskeepsdon't you just hate how the x in the corner actually closes an app? i often get that wrong :P11:19
Stskeepsi'm pondering to make the x the switcher menu11:19
Stskeepsas in the one when there's too many tasks11:20
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JaffaStskeeps: looking good. Can't you just chop up wazd's mockup to get the various elements you need?11:39
StskeepsJaffa: probably11:39
Stskeepsbut we need to do some other things as well too so11:40
Meiz_webirkStskeeps: is the X button for top corner available by marquee-plugins?11:41
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StskeepsMeiz_webirk: im not sure really, i can't get it to show anything11:52
StskeepsMeiz_webirk: how does it work in UME?11:52
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Meiz_webirkStskeeps: it didn't work fo mee too, but here ae the original UME conffiles (from /etc/hildon-desktop/)
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mavhcinteresting than on a mouse driven device corners and edges are easy targets, but on touchscreen they can be much harder to hit11:56
Stskeepsyeah, true11:57
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mavhcwhy is everyone ditching the sidebar? it makes the aspect ratio of a full screen video approx the same as a windowed one11:57
Stskeepsmavhc: web browsing probably11:58
mavhcsuppose if browsing becomes less painful I'd use it more11:58
Stskeepsi understood after webkit eal that browsing could be quite less painful11:59
konttori_well, also, considering that the left bar is total waste of space to begin with.11:59
konttori_it's like windows would have the start menu open all the time on your desktop11:59
mavhcit's a task switcher, not a start menu11:59
konttori_it serves both purposes12:00
Stskeepskonttori_: we're experimenting a bit in mer these days: , - think we safely can make some of the icons bigger though :P12:00
konttori_Left bar might make it easier to start / switch an app, but considering the time to do those vs. using the app, it's obvious that the left bar takes proportionally too much space vs the usefullness of it.12:00
konttori_those top icons look just nicely usable as they are12:01
konttori_and looking good (except the icons, that look still a bit hackish)12:01
Stskeepsyeah, they are :P12:01
* Stskeeps is waiting for wazd to show up to bring artwork ;)12:01
* konttori_ is working atm on parts of theme maker that will sadly not make it to public until some more details of the UI are published.12:02
mavhcso that top bar is the same height as the top bar on maemo, and it does the task switching too?12:03
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Stskeepsthe top bar on this screenshot is 52 pixels and does task switching, status bar, app launcher and titlebar menu12:04
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Meiz_webirkStskeeps: could you upload the .conf files you used for that configuration (~/.osso/hildon-desktop/?)12:07
StskeepsMeiz_webirk: not yet sorry, it is based on hildon desktop not yet in repository12:07
Stskeepsi'm just pondering if to make the right-most X into
Stskeepsyou might have to click twice to close but you avoid accidential closures :P12:07
Meiz_webirki was having toubles with statusbar integration12:07
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mavhcthe unlimited resources solution would be to let you unclose the app if you accidentally closed it12:09
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Stskeepsyeah :P12:09
mavhcthe hack would be to not close it right away, give the user 10 second to unclose, but that's probably more annoying12:09
Stskeepson the other hand, it could be useful that X was actually not a direct message to the window, but to the app switcher so if the app switcher failed to close it, it would kill it (after asking you)12:10
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mavhcif every app has perfect autosave it wouldn't matter either12:11
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mavhcI think the Xs are small enough that you can't hit them accidentally often enough12:12
Stskeepsmm true12:13
mavhcI suppose if you get rid of the sidebar apps can add their own sidebar in the space12:14
jerhumi follow instructions for install kde4 on my nokia n810 ( ) but i've got problem with the repository deb diablo extras (404 error)12:15
mavhcor preferably on the right hand side if there's no scroll bar12:16
Stskeepsi really ponder how difficult it is to implement multiple home screens12:16
qwerty12_N800switchdesktop on itt12:17
Stskeepsbut without having to reload HD12:17
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aquatixhmm, workspaces on your NIT12:17
mavhcare you still having all the applets loaded within the HD task?12:17
rzrdo you know about works on maemo5 + nokia 770 ?12:18
Stskeepswell currently that is the old h-d desktop :/ new h-d desktop uses clutter extensively12:18
Stskeepsrzr: mm, since mer even has trouble on 770..12:19
rzrhi Stskeeps12:19
rzrbtw just curious is nokia directly involved in mer ?12:20
Stskeepsnop, it's a community project12:20
Stskeepsbut they are supporting in different ways12:20
Stskeepshelped a lot to get a h-d matching the fremantle libs for instance12:22
Stskeepsand the code drops12:22
mavhcso which HD are we talking about for mer?12:22
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jerhumwho knows if deb diablo extras has moved ?12:23
Stskeepsmavhc: there's one that's the old desktop (diablo like) and there's the fremantle desktop (which has seperated hildon-home and hildon-desktop, and uses clutter extensively)12:23
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suihkulokkiStskeeps: so you have both h-d versions now in mer?12:24
Stskeepssuihkulokki: not the clutter one, just the one delivered in pre-alpha(2)12:25
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Stskeepsthere would be some libhildondesktop clash too afaik so12:25
suihkulokkiand still basing on top of gtk+ built with #MAEMO_CHANGES +12:26
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* suihkulokki rumbles in the distance12:27
mavhcand do you plan to switch to the new one?12:27
Stskeepsmavhc: well it would be a bit contrary to the fact that we can't have proper clutter on n8x0..12:28
mavhcso no12:28
lcuk(ever) but in your own words: "who the fuck needs opengl"12:29
thopiekarlcuk: gamers^^12:29
thopiekarand compiz :P12:30
lcukthey will have the n900 :)12:30
lcukor will carry around their desktop12:30
lcuk"look, i can play warcraft on the bus"12:30
* Stskeeps still wants that touch book thing12:30
lcuklooks nice tbh12:31
aquatixStskeeps: touchbook?12:31
aquatixStskeeps: that's rather nice12:31
mavhcbetter than augmented reality: "Look, I can play warcraft with this bus"12:31
aquatixStskeeps: Touch book with Mer \o/12:32
lcukactually, thats like dividing by zero - warcraft users NEVER travel the bus :D12:32
aquatixi first only read "touch thing" in your sentence12:32
mavhcI'm still not sure how online gamers earn money to pay for the online gaming they do for 18 hours a day12:32
konttori_lcuk: the biggest improvement of opengl on every operation that you could do on software is sub pixel accuracy.12:32
konttori_not that big a thing perhaps on such high dpi devices as maemo has, but still. Anyway, of course, opengl also offers so much more that you cannot do on software at all12:33
Stskeepsmavhc: welfare..12:33
Stskeepsor CC scams, probably12:34
lcukkonttori_, agreed in principle12:34
* konttori_ has just finished adding a nifty thing in theme maker and is having quite a kick on seeing that working on the device. 12:35
Jaffakonttori_: N810?12:36
konttori_Stskeeps: the touch book device looks really nice (one you linked to )12:36
* lcuk laughs12:36
konttori_Jaffa: the other device.12:37
Stskeepskonttori_: it's basically a portable beagleboard, so i want. :P12:37
Jaffakonttori_: oh, N800? ;-)12:37
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konttori_Jaffa: lol12:37
lcuknahhh jaffa, 77012:37
* Jaffa wants a touchbook; but will believe it when I see it.12:37
Jaffa"believe" is a strong word; hold out hope :)12:37
* Jaffa wants a bigger screened tablet for around the house12:37
StskeepsJaffa: since there's actual schematics and it's a guy who made tangible products before, i tend to believe it :P12:38
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lcukjaffa, my lenovo x41 does that job :)12:38
JaffaStskeeps: I believe it; just want it to be good (will reserve judgement until then) and it's shipping to the UK12:39
Jaffalcuk: indeed, been looking at cheap old tablet PCs on ebay12:39
* lcuk is just doing quantum teleportation of sketches and photos12:39
JaffaBut I'm about to lay down a wad of cash on a new fitted study (sold the sofa bed on ebay, and the current office furniture's looking hopeful) so it'd have to be a dirt cheap tablet for knocking around with.12:40
lcuki got this one from ebay for £280 i got to view it first12:40
* konttori_ is really interested in seeing that will there actually be a significant device base spawning from the existence of beagleboard. The idea from TI to create it was a really good one. But intel with the atom and nvidia with the atom + nvidia integrated, sounds just about the perfect processor for touch book type of devices. 12:41
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konttori_as, the power consuption of the display is so high on bigger display sizes, that the advantage of omap 3 vs. the lowest version of atom is not that big anymore. especially against underclocked atoms12:42
* lcuk underclocks his x4112:42
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lcuk800mhz has so much headroom!12:42
Stskeeps  , x is grossly misplaced, but..12:43
lcukkonttori_, you mention doin theme maker in ogl on the device - how about your ukmp, hows that looking or have you not considered converting yet12:46
konttori_lcuk: I haven't been working on ukmp for fremantle at all12:47
konttori_the diablo version (on my development branch) is much better now though.12:48
konttori_I could publish that.12:48
lcukyou mustv had some thoughts of your own though: what would you like to do with it that you cannot now12:48
konttori_Also, one of the reasons for postponing the work on ukmp is that I have wanted to have tracker in place before doing anything to ukmp.12:48
konttori_also, I could seriously see myself as writing that now with either qgraphicsview or with clutter.12:49
JaffaStskeeps: I like that idea; especially if instead of an "X" it becomes some other symbol (one for wazd perhaps)12:49
StskeepsFAQ: "Where did my X go?"12:50
lcuk"she is currently located in your best friends bed"12:50
JaffaHmm, would keeping it as "X" be that bad? My initial thought was yes, but perhaps not.12:50
Stskeepsjust as long as it's not the Window Mobile "x"12:51
lcukkonttori_, is there python bindings for either clutter or qt now then, or have you changed language/12:52
konttori_lcuk: well, most of those ideas about what I could do with opengl revolve around moving items on the view, rotating them on the fly and doing fancy transitions between views.12:52
konttori_clutter has python bindings.12:52
lcuki thought rotation was os level so the app doesnt need to play with that?12:53
konttori_my preferred language still remains python (or javascript), otoh, I have done some c++ coding on qt now as well.12:53
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lcukare the clutter bindings cross platform?12:53
konttori_vala is my preferred language if I needed to write something to serve as a daemon type component on the platform12:53
konttori_lcuk: afaik they are12:54
konttori_so, you can write the app on your desktop with clutter on python and then just copy the python files to the device and it will just work,12:54
lcuki thought vala was usable to make gtk objective as well12:54
* lcuk would prefer to write the other way round12:54
konttori_sure. it's really nice for any glib based stuff really12:54
lcuktheres nothing worse than getting to a device and finding out its too fat12:55
konttori_I just happen to believe that UIs should be written on script / interpreted languages.12:55
konttori_as they will be so much better in handling error situations than compiled languages.12:55
lcukwith good libraries behind the glue code doesnt have to be rapid :)12:55
Stskeepsi might believe that for higher end devices but after seeing openmoko ..12:55
konttori_Stskeeps: what about openmoko?12:56
* konttori_ doesn't keep openmoko under his radar.12:56
lcukkonttori_, i think the experience is somewhat underwhelming12:57
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lcukmornin yerga12:58
Stskeepskonttori_: well, afaik their UI is mostly written in python.. and it is somewhat same specs as a n8x0, and it was deadly slow (i'm a python fan but sometimes it is not feasible to run it)12:58
lcukStskeeps, it might be in python but its calling into gtk stuffs12:58
lcukpython isnt so bad at specific library wrangling12:58
lcukhowever i was looking at some pybookreader thing - its rendering is as quick as it can be and autoscrolls (with tearing) but loading a book takes 20x longer than required12:59
konttori_lcuk: It would be so great to have psyco running on arm13:00
* konttori_ tested it on i386 a few times and just two lines of code make python so much faster for any in-pythong calculations.13:00
lcukwhats missing from it that it doesnt work13:01
konttori_lcuk: it is a form of JIT and would need to be re-written to do it for arm13:01
konttori_a lot of work really13:02
lcukhas anyone tried? its just in c from what i can see13:02
konttori_and, usually the tight loops are anyway usually using c components in python apps13:02
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lcuklol replace python and c with basic and asm and we couldv time travelled 20 years in the past!13:04
konttori_lcuk: there has been discussion, but afaik,  no-one has even dared to start.13:05
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lcukkonttori_, have you seen the new mediabox media centre thing?  looks very swish and works well on device13:07
konttori_lcuk: I haven't tried it yet13:07
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konttori_lcuk: that was python app, right?13:08
konttori_what libs does it need?13:08
* konttori_ has wicked ideas of where to test it.13:08
konttori_ah. needs mplayer.13:09
lcukmafw is prefered i gather (indirect mplayer)13:10
lcukjust try it, i was surprised at how nicely it worked13:10
konttori_I will try it13:10
lcukthey even offer direct folder access to media instead of a big library :P13:11
konttori_is that good?13:11
lcukdepending on usage and how often you change media disks and how your mind is configured, hell yeah!13:12
lcuknothing worse than firing up canola and it not getting media because its not scanned it yet13:12
roopegud moarning.13:12
konttori_lcuk: well, tracker should take care of the file changes quite nicely in the future13:12
konttori_roope: morning13:12
konttori_roope: I just got theme maker to produce themes for fremantle.13:13
konttori_and made a very nice background image13:13
roopenothing better than a nice sunny march sunday morning.13:13
roopekonttori: sounds cool, hmm.13:13
* lcuk looks to windwo and sees fog13:13
roopeis there something that... are there missing pieces still?13:13
lcukkonttori_, are these themes still gtk at their core or are they clutter textures13:13
konttori_lcuk: themes are pretty much the same as before.13:14
roopeor some parts of the ui you can't theme?13:14
konttori_just a bit of new added stuff on top of the old stuff13:14
lcukcool, so the themes for fremantle should translate directly back to normal gtk?13:14
konttori_roope: well, I haven't finished theming of the colors yet completely, but I'll take a look at that next.13:14
konttori_but, as dar as I know, all the assets are now in place on the template side.13:15
roopei.e. parts of the ui that arem't in the akpha?13:15
konttori_roope: I have the full stuff on my dev.13:15
konttori_I mean dev env of theme maker13:15
konttori_so, I cannot publish it until I clean up the unnecessary stuff from it.13:16
konttori_but, I want to make the full version before crippling it13:16
roopedon't launch it from thememaker yet. :)13:16
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konttori_as, also, I don't know when they will publish the missing pieces. perhaps for the beta release?13:17
jerhumi have installed kde4 on n810 but the system reboot after have launch plasma :s13:18
roopeyes, for the beta.13:18
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roopeso leave those parts outside before the beta.13:19
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konttori_roope: yeah, well, I might just as well wait until beta to publish theme maker13:21
konttori_I mean, to me, it makes little sense to publish it before you can actually use the results.13:21
roopeyeah, that's true.13:21
roopeyou need to see the status etc. to see what you're doing.13:22
Macercrap.. it has been raining forever here13:25
lcukmacer, its murky and yucky here too13:26
lcukroope, could you share the sun please13:26
Myrttiit's discustingly sunny here13:26
lcukapt-get install sunshine13:26
Macerthey are trying to run a civilian school like westpoint for civilians to force people into public service13:27
* konttori_ just tested youamp on fremantle. Kudos to python - worked just by installing it from diablo repository. 13:28
Macerthe problem with public service is that you need to be a complete dorkus to get a job.. you can have nothing on your record and you must be an absolutely perfect citizen.. which is like 1% of the population13:28
* konttori_ needs apps to test that theming works also in 'legacy' applications. 13:28
konttori_youamp developer should switch to use tracker as the backend instead of scanning the fs manually.13:29
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lbtStskeeps: in general do you want maemo versions od packages or not? I'm thinking Qt...13:32
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Stskeepslbt: with regards to Qt, yes, maemo extensions should be enabled13:32
Stskeepsi compiled it once but wasn't sure if it was with hildonizing things13:32
lbtyep that's what I was thinking...13:33
lbtare you keeping the nokia free stuff and trying to write stuff to replace their blobs13:33
lbtor are you trying to replicate their work on top of Ubuntu13:34
Stskeepswe're actually trying to rebase the maemo platform on top of ubuntu, yeah - we're keeping as close to maemo as we can when it makes sense13:34
Stskeepswhich means we have maemo gtk for instance13:34
lbtyep - makes sense13:35
Stskeepsa ubuntu with hildon on top and maemo gtk and the other things is actually quite powerful13:35
Stskeepsi mean, apt-get install abiword :>13:35
lbtand hopefully makes it easier...13:35
lbtI'll start with qt45-4.5.0~rc1maemo313:36
lbtbaby steps ;)13:36
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* lcuk lets lbt pick something up from the toy aisle for behaving whilst shopping13:39
* konttori_ likes this benchmark tool:
lbtsquirty gun13:39
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konttori_easy to compare languages13:39
lcukheh, jake always goes for cars.  ALWAYS13:39
lbtI've got a full size car - still a toy though ;)13:40
konttori_java looks really fast on those tests (well, not a big surprise considering how much it's been developed in the past decade)13:40
lcukwe have a complete set of practically every matchbox car in existance and have now moved onto cars cars13:40
Macertrying to add my gmail acct to zimbra as an external imap13:40
lbterr, when I  do fullscreen in my Mer VM - how do I get out?13:43
lbtah - F6 - of course13:43
lbtforgot about the hw = fn-key thing :)13:43
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JaffaStskeeps: I still need to play with an auto-hildonising LD_PRELOAD hack. Initial tests were promising, but I've not produced any code against Gtk yet.13:44
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* lcuk goes n plays portal for a bit13:58
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Stskeepsmorning GAN80014:00
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lcuk810the cake is a lie14:07
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GAN800Does the Fremantle h-a-m have the category patches?14:10
Stskeepswas it the catpo stuff14:10
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GAN800Stskeeps, yeah, the translations and the associated category view stuff.14:24
Stskeepsthere's a catpo/ folder at least14:25
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slonopotamusStskeeps, i patched cx3110x with your patch. wpa_supplicant happily works. but maemo nm doesn't.14:28
slonopotamusStskeeps, from dmesg:14:28
slonopotamus[ 2867.390625] cx3110x: associated to 00:15:e9:e3:39:01 (bcn 100 msec, DTIM 3)14:29
slonopotamus[ 2867.414062] cx3110x: shut down softmac.14:29
Stskeepsslonopotamus: hmm.14:29
slonopotamusso it associates and immediately shuts down14:29
Stskeepsdoes my .ko work?14:29
slonopotamusmhm. haven't tried.14:30
Stskeepsjust test14:30
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slonopotamusStskeeps, how i can unpack deb?14:31
Stskeepsdpkg-deb -x foo directory14:31
Stskeepsor ar x, i think14:32
GeneralAntilleskonttori_, there's little point in anybody using Tracker until it's actually available. . . .14:33
Stskeepsit's availiable in fremantle afaik :P14:34
lcukomg its hailstoning!14:34
konttori_GeneralAntilles: true enough14:34
konttori_anyway, afaik: the tracker that we have in fremantle alpha was the buggiest version ever.14:34
GeneralAntillesJust like there's little point in people using the new categories until Nokia gets its shit together and ships them. . . . :[14:34
GeneralAntillesIn the mean time, let's all look at the list of lies:
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lcukmmmm tracy lemon n lime drizzle cake is delicious14:38
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slonopotamusStskeeps, nope, yours doesn't work either14:39
Stskeepsslonopotamus: hmmm.14:40
slonopotamusStskeeps, i do 1) go offline 2) rmmod 3) insmod 4) wlan-cal 5) go online14:41
slonopotamusStskeeps, only maemo module connects at step 5. both mine and yours do not14:42
Stskeepsnot sure14:43
slonopotamusoh my. do you understand what that means? i have wifi in gentoo!14:45
Stskeepsyeah, i know, except NM doesnt work :)14:45
slonopotamuswhen i said 'nm' i didn't mean NM14:46
slonopotamusi meant maemo tray thing14:46
slonopotamusdunno how it is called14:46
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Meizirkkiapt-get crashes X in Mer14:59
MeizirkkiReading package lists... 0%15:00
Meizirkkiand freeze15:00
Stskeepsswap enabled?15:00
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Meizirkkiit happens even if i apt-get using chroot under diablo15:01
Stskeepsit might be a sideeffect of our mmap stuff i guess15:02
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Meizirkki??? apt-cache show gdm says "Bus error"15:07
Stskeepsmemory stuff prolly15:08
Meizirkkiany ideas how to fix it?15:09
Stskeepswhat apt version do you have?15:09
Stskeepsdpkg -l15:09
Meizirkkithere's a lot of "Buffer I/O error" messages in dmesg..15:11
StskeepsMMC errors?15:11
Stskeepsbetter not be the internal MMC15:11
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Stskeepsdid you install 48mhz or rotation kernel per chance?15:12
Meizirkkiexternal card15:12
Stskeepspossible dead card then :/15:12
Meizirkkii haven't made any changes yet, this is a fresh 0.9 tarball...15:12
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* Meizirkki re/installs mer15:15
Meizirkkiyeah, it's a dead card15:15
Meizirkkieverything on that card is just an I/O errors15:15
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thopiekarStskeeps: maybe you are right to install all the devtools on mer.vmdk..15:28
Stskeepsit could be useful15:28
Stskeepsit would mean you could have your app actually show up in the maemo environment15:29
Stskeepstry and see how eclipse looks :)15:29
thopiekarrunning mer.vm in a vm is bullshit.. vbox in my vm don't work and qemu is laggy..15:29
thuxhello, is there any command to remove bootmenu? or is flashing only way?15:29
Stskeepsthopiekar: just reflash initfs and --flash-only initfs15:29
thopiekarbut I would need java for eclipse..15:29
Stskeepsthopiekar: sure, we have ubuntu you know :P15:29
Stskeepsjust install it :)15:29
thuxi had mer but it doesn't boot anymore15:30
joyriderHi, is there anyway to use networking over the provided usb cable ?15:31
thopiekarStskeeps: kk I will try it... but first of all I would need a bigger virtual hdd... (dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/hdb)15:31
Stskeepsthux: just reflash initfs and --flash-only initfs15:31
thopiekarStskeeps: maybe around 25GB15:32
thuxStskeeps: ok thanks15:32
Stskeepsthopiekar: true15:32
Stskeepsthopiekar: shouldn't be too difficult though15:32
thopiekar:) 25GB would be enough for the next releases of mer :P15:33
thuxi broke mer with dist-upgrade despite i only got stock repositories15:33
Stskeepsthux: there was a notice on the about hildon-desktop breaking upgrade right now :)15:34
Stskeepswe're working on new UI so,
thuxi should read jaiku :)15:34
Myrttijaiku ♥15:35
thopiekarStskeeps: don't show him the crap.. show him our goal..15:35
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thopiekarStskeeps: is the new UI breaking vm too?15:36
lcukthis feels strange as feck!    im using x11vnc so that i can type input directly from my pc keyboard into my tablet.  but because of xv i cannot see the vnc screen, its just black15:37
Stskeepsthopiekar: yeah, so don't dist-upgrade15:37
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thopiekarStskeeps: do you know something about "kernel-star"?..15:38
thopiekarmy NAS is using it..15:39
Stskeepsthopiekar: no sorry15:39
thopiekar* me is interested in using mer as a server on his nas15:39
Stskeepshehe, just use ubuntu jaunty armel instead15:39
thopiekaris it really so easy to switch between root-systems?15:41
thopiekareven os'es15:42
Stskeepsdepends how hackable your NAS is15:44
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thopiekarStskeeps: thanks.. even the support email from multicase wasn't so informative..15:50
* thopiekar loves Stskeeps :P15:54
ShadowJKlcuk, there's this thing called x2vnc, iirc, which just does the input thing. You move pointe off of the edge of your screen and it appears on the other computer's screen15:54
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Macerthis rain sucks15:55
johnxluckily it's not here yet :)15:56
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Stskeepsmorning johnx15:56
Stskeepsjohnx: jp.dk15:56
Macerjohnx: it's like a damn typhoon here15:56
lcukShadowJK, yeah it might not work well in windows tho :D  its only to get some input into liqbase before i put the alternative method in15:56
qwerty12_N800hi johnx15:56
lcukmornin johnx15:57
johnxhey qwerty12_N800, Stskeeps15:57
johnxhey lcuk15:57
MacerStskeeps: i have a much better box running esxi .. you were right. the io was horrible on the shuttle15:57
johnxI think the freenode server in Asia is AWOL...15:57
Macerso if you guys need something. you can have a vm if you'd like.. it should run pretty good15:57
johnxStskeeps, looking nice :)15:58
Stskeepsjohnx: it's a new concept for the X menu .. quick switch in top bar and rest of apps in the magic X15:58
johnxthat leaves a pleasant amount of space for tasks/statusbar icons15:58
Stskeepswhere you can also close apps15:58
Macerlooks like the maemo menu15:58
Stskeepsit is15:59
Stskeepsjohnx: i just wonder if apps running should be first or statusbar15:59
Stskeepsso you have the apps running just next to x which it overflows into15:59
johnxyeah, that seems reasonable16:00
johnxI think one way or another they should stay together16:00
Macerhope zimbra fixed some of its problems with this new release16:00
Macerzimbra is great  for the most part.. but some of the things it does wrong are very irritating16:01
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Stskeepsbut it's good to know wazd's prototypes are actually in reach16:06
johnxyeah, and is wazd around?16:06
Stskeepsnot yet16:07
Stskeepsrst said something about long weekend16:07
johnxalso, random question: Have you tried running at 640x480 to see if this 'resolution independence' thing is really automagic?16:07
RST38hmoo all16:07
johnxm00f RST38h16:07
Stskeepsjohnx: no, not yet, but it can be made so :P16:07
RST38hhow are things?16:07
Stskeepsjohnx: i actually understand the resolution stuff now so16:08
johnxStskeeps, the layout stuff?16:08
johnxRST38h, a little hectic ...16:08
Stskeepswell just how the panels and stuff work16:08
Stskeepsand why i would want to learn Qt instea16:08
RST38hheh, how familiar...16:08
johnxmaybe we should just start this project over and work on fixing qtopia/opie :)16:09
* johnx ducks16:09
Stskeepsjohnx: funny fact - themes only contain templates for task button 1 2 and 3..16:10
RST38hplease dont =)16:10
RST38hqtopia is nokia now, too16:10
johnxRST38h, twm/xlib is where it's at?16:10
StskeepsRST38h: and given up on i guess16:10
RST38hsts: dont be so fast, you never know when they decide to look at the attic16:11
johnxI assume qt is important, but qtopia seems like a deadend in its current state16:12
lbtqtopia has been EOLed16:12
lbtas of Qt 4.516:12
johnxat least in terms of lining up with Nokia's current goals16:12
johnxdamn, my zaurus got wet out in the rain the other day and now it's acting sketchy :/16:13
lbtairing cupboard16:13
* RST38h considers clutter a deadend, yet...16:13
johnxRST38h, but you're not the developer/maintainer of clutter :)16:14
johnxturns out you don't get to make those decisions ...16:14
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RST38hnot developing qtopia either16:14
johnxright, but Nokia is/was16:14
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RST38hjohnx: its not a decision, its, let us say, a thought out opinion :)16:15
johnxyour well reasoned opinion is duly noted16:16
johnxand I agree to a certain extent given the current usage ...16:16
RST38hoh it is the same problem as with symbian16:16
RST38hI know you hate me for saying this but it is another case of aspergers sufferers creating an api16:17
RST38hok, replace with "narrow minded nerds" if you wish :)16:18
johnxsee, that's a lot more descriptive, isn't it :)16:18
RST38hyea, but does not express the clonical aspect :)16:19
* RST38h is typing on a phone16:19
johnxyour articulate argumentation is unsurpassed :D16:19
johnxI was hoping it was 'clownical' actually16:20
johnxbut actually it turns out that not everyone's design mistakes are the result of aspergers, and not everyone with aspergers makes those design mistakes...16:21
johnxit just makes your argument inflammatory and takes away from your point...16:21
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RST38hjohnx: there are no sane people, just ones awaiting diagnosis16:22
johnxyeah, but leave the diagnosis to the people with PhDs :)16:23
* RST38h always flames towards a certain point though16:23
johnxyeah, but the trick is to not have people get caught up in the irrelevant details :P16:23
RST38hjohnx: do read more on the subject - it is way more fascinating than simple normal/mad distinction16:24
johnxI know a fair amount on the subject, but unless I'm mistaken you're not actually a medical doctor16:25
johnxfair amount for a lay person I should say16:25
Stskeepsjohnx: i wonder however what on earth kind of themeing could be done.. i mean, what is left to theme? dialogs? marquee?16:25
johnxheh :)16:26
johnxwell, that's a good and bad thing I guess16:26
johnxicons, gtk widgets16:26
lcukmake osso_calculator themable :P16:26
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Stskeepsit wouldn't be easy to theme LCARS.. :P16:27
lcuklcars is a state of mind, only to be activated in the vicinity of a trek convention :D16:27
johnxit wouldn't be *too* bad16:27
johnxyou could have end caps for the top bar that were rounded off, and a repeating or stretched pixmap for the middle16:28
johnxthe icons and gtk controls are the big part16:29
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johnxif anyone remembers the magna doodle (or failing that etch a sketch), just picture that and click this link:
johnxthough actually I'd love an e-ink tablet16:32
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johnxah, I think I might have killed my zaurus' battery :/16:47
johnx~4 years is a good run though16:47
infobotjohnx: okay16:47
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johnxinfobot, 4 years16:48
infobotsomebody said 4 years was a good run though16:48
johnxI think that's fitting :)16:48
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johnxif a li-ion battery is putting out 2.7v, that's not a good sign, right?16:51
* qwerty12_N800 grimaces at "Windows Update, Error Reporting & Customer Experience Improvement Program" on a WinMo phone...16:54
johnxsounds like one step short of RMA...16:55
ShadowJKjohnx, it's a sign of danger :)16:55
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ShadowJKHow long has it been that way?16:56
johnxah, one thing where the zaurus wins over the nokia tablets: built-in diagnostics menu16:56
johnxShadowJK, I couple days. I don't think it's able to charge16:56
ShadowJKYou'd want to do it very very slowly on a fireproof surface16:57
johnxsooo, not in my zaurus?16:57
* johnx looks at charging zaurus, pops battery, plays a funeral dirge for it16:57
* igagis uploaded new Maemo Theremin video:
johnxdrops to 2.6v when the charger's not plugged in16:58
johnxwas probably 2.5v earlier16:58
johnxmaybe even less16:58
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ShadowJK"If the cells have dwelled at 1.5V/cell and lower for a few days, however, a recharge should be avoided. Copper shunts may have formed inside the cells, leading a partial or total electrical short. The cell becomes unstable. Charging such a battery would cause excessive heat and safety could not be assured. "17:00
johnx2.6v is a good distance from 1.5v...17:01
deejoeis it single-cell, though?17:01
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ShadowJKYeah it probably is17:01
johnxI believe so. maximum charging voltage, connected to AC is supposed to be 4.2v17:02
ShadowJK2.6 is still uncomfortably lower than the safety threshold of 3.2 :)17:02
johnxyeah, and the zaurus won't stay on reliably with it like this, also I let it try to charge all last night17:03
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johnxso either the charging circuit is done (which I kind of doubt) or the battery is17:03
ShadowJKor the charging circuit is refusing to charge it17:03
johnxit's trying17:03
johnxthe service menu tells me "211" 2.7v on AC and drops to "206" 2.6v off AC17:04
johnxbatteries or so freaking expensive :/17:04
ShadowJKAt one point Nokia was putting their BL-5C battery in almost every single phone model of theirs... Economies of scale, you can get original replacement battery for 10E :-)17:05
johnxthe zaurus battery is not quite as popular, sadly :P17:06
ShadowJKI can see that :-)17:06
ShadowJKa quick search gives results at $70 :)17:06
johnxluckily I can use a bl11 or bl0817:07
johnxthinking about going 3rd party, even though I know it's a gamble17:07
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johnxcrisis averted, thank god for parts interchange :)17:11
johnxa bl06 works too :>17:11
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johnxwell, now I have about $150 in batteries to buy when I have a chance...wheee...17:13
aquatixfun :/17:13
johnxyeah, same as the cost of a used n800 (!)17:14
johnx...or a lot of beer17:14
derfThe had some "expert" on the Japanese econom on the radio here, talking about how price levels were higher over there...17:15
derf...and he's like, "Yeah, $200 would basically get you one dinner at a not-too-expensive restaurant in Tokyo."17:15
johnxhe didn't get very far outside shibuya station I think :)17:16
derfSuddenly makes me wish _I_ was an economics "expert".17:16
johnxon the one hand you could *easily* blow that much if you weren't paying attention, but $6-10 will also get you filled up on decent, hot food17:17
derfMaybe he meant for a family of twelve.17:17
ShadowJKHow much do you need to get properly wasted?17:17
johnxShadowJK, at home or a bar?17:17
ShadowJKand dropped off at home once you pass out17:18
johnxwell, taxi's are steep no matter where you go :P17:18
derfEveryone takes the train.17:18
johnxbut unless you live in a box under the tracks that's not getting you 'dropped off at home' :)17:18
derfEh, close enough.17:19
johnxbut, the magic phrase is 'nomi-hodai' (bottomless cup)17:19
johnx20-30 minutes walk here :P17:19
derfThe cold March air will do you good.17:19
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johnxyeah, it's aaaawesome17:19
johnxwe had snow last week17:19
udovdhmy n810 has been in the window for over an hour17:19
udovdhrunning navit17:20
udovdhbut the gps icon doesn't show a fix17:20
johnxudovdh, do you have agps installed?17:20
udovdhnavit's fault?17:20
udovdhwhich is?17:20
udovdhthe n810 has one internal17:20
ShadowJKoh it helps getting a fix..17:20
ShadowJKit's software17:20
udovdhah, interesting17:20
udovdhin maemo?17:20
johnxagps-ui to name it exactly17:21
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udovdh ?17:21
ShadowJKmaemo-mapper has a nice satellite details view17:21
johnxinstall that and you should be happier :)17:21
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udovdhaha. thanks, will have a look into it17:21
* RST38h moos evilly17:21
* johnx makes a battery spacer...17:22
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b-mannice :)17:23
Stskeepsjohnx: i'm really pondering if it's possible to properly seperate layout and h-d :/17:23
johnxStskeeps, you mean to make the left panel optional?17:23
AStormmy n810 just spontaneously rebooted17:23
Stskeepsjohnx: more like give freedom to have new layout17:24
guysoft42hey, i seem to begetting a segmentation fault after trying to add towel day to my gpe-calendar. now i carn't fix it because it segfaults on statup17:24
guysoft42i basicly created a yearly event starting at 2001 yearly forever.. and it segfaults now17:24
Stskeepsjohnx: cos so many things are hardwired in the code17:25
AStormooh, and it rebooted again17:25
AStormwtf is happening with that diablo17:25
StskeepsAStorm: i have had weird watchdog problems too17:25
AStormit happens... spontaneously, sometimes17:25
AStormand especially two times in a row17:26
* b-man might have to disassemble his N800 today, the small sheild that protects the bluetooth became loose from that drop it had last week :(17:26
ShadowJKOnce my memory card had been dislodged17:26
StskeepsAStorm: then again my n800 has taken some -serious- beatings17:26
udovdhhow do I use agps?17:26
AStormStskeeps, heh, so did my n81017:27
b-manStskeeps: what did you do to yours?17:27
AStormmight be battery overheating hmm17:27
udovdhmy n810 reboots after running airo-odumo-ng for a nigth or so17:27
Stskeepsb-man: it has certainly dropped quite often17:27
Meizirkki~nuke nepomuk database build17:27
* infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at nepomuk database build ... B☢☢M!17:27
Stskeepsbut it is in one shape still17:28
AStormor maybe my jffs2 or flash is calling its due ;P17:28
b-mani'll bet it has a lot of nicks and scraches17:28
MeizirkkiKDE with Qt 4.5 feels like 5 times slower than the old one >*17:29
johnxStskeeps, freedom? That's gnubie talk! but yeah, I guess it depends on that whole effort/effect ratio17:29
johnxahaha...with this other battery I no longer have weird voltage drop-outs when turning on my compactflash wifi card17:30
johnxShadowJK, good call on the battery17:31
lcukMeizirkki, are you sure its not 4.5 times slower :P17:32
Meizirkkiyes, it's at least 5 ;(17:32
b-manStskeeps: how did you get cheese to work btw? i remember you doing it but i cannot recall how you did it17:33
lcukaww poo thats not a good regression17:33
Stskeepsb-man: ran it17:33
b-manit doesn't work with me :P17:33
Stskeepsjohnx: i think i'll go with the mer-ui style.. i mean, we have to be a step up from diablo17:34
* Stskeeps goes take a look at hildon-desktop from fremantle17:35
johnxStskeeps, I would agree, unless it's somehow vastly easier to do now than later17:35
johnxalright! with my now un-fubared zaurus, it's time to really get this stuff working!17:35
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udovdhis the slow gps isue still in the diablo oso-gpsd?17:44
Stskeepsjohnx: one thing against the magic X and statusbar to the left..17:44
Stskeepsjohnx: clock.17:44
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johnxStskeeps, just aesthetic though, right?17:45
johnxactually clock just left of center looks ok in my mind17:46
Stskeepsfor some reason my mind protests17:47
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johnxyour call. I can picture other people wanting it on a corner too though. you're probably not alone17:48
* Stskeeps is trying to make a writeup of layout on wiki so17:49
johnxbut really, given how often people actually click on it, does it deserve corner placement?17:49
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johnx<- mixed feelings17:49
Stskeepsyeah, i guess we'll get comments in 0.1017:49
thopiekarStskeeps: a pinboard anywhere would be useful..17:50
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thopiekaryes an online-pinboard of the mer-project..17:50
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Stskeepsnot sure what pinboard is17:50
thopiekarbulletin board17:51
johnxthopiekar, for keeping notes on?17:52
thopiekaryes :P17:52
johnxcan you give an example of a program that works the way you want?17:52
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Stskeepsthopiekar: wiki, jaiku :P17:54
thopiekartomboy for gnome .. It would be very useful to have such a board on the net.. for example when asking or wanting something for an user but he isn't online on irc.. so you can write (in case of mine): wazd, would you please make a mer-wallpaper for me with a touch of "developting"-icons?..17:55
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johnxthopiekar, that's jaiku/twitter :)17:56
Stskeepsyeah, well, jaiku was supposed to help with that and the sprints list17:56
johnxbut like anything, it has limited usefulness unless everyone is on it17:56
lcukthopiekar, you should look into SMTP, it has the features you need17:56
johnxor a commanding majority at least :)17:56
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thopiekarwiki and jaiku are confusing.. just a page where you need just a look and finished..17:57
RST38hGentlemen, you have already got ITT, what OTHER bulletin board do you want?17:57
lcukperhaps an inbox list of things to do ;)17:57
RST38hAnd ITT has even got inboxes for private messages, if email is too stupid for you17:58
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Stskeepswhy does application menu not cover entire screen, btw17:59
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lcukthopiekar, in all seriousness, what mer needs is a homepage17:59
Stskeepswe have one :P17:59
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lcuknot a random page in a wiki or on some site17:59
johnxRST38h, I think a new display format is needed, not a new message protocol17:59
thopiekara wiki-page sucks, Stskeeps :P17:59
lcukthopiekar, the wiki page doesnt suck18:00
Stskeepsthopiekar: the real reason to have a wiki is the fact the project is moving quite fast18:00
lcukits just located a bit out of the way18:00
lcukwhats the betting you cant get tho18:00
thopiekarwazd is a homepage disigner.. I think he would like to make one but he would need space anywhere on the net..18:01 (MER.COM) is for sale18:01
lcukUnique and highly valuable domain.18:01
lcukA rare opportunity on the secondary market !18:01
thopiekarhow much would such a domain cost?18:03
thopiekar279 visitors in the last 31days..18:03
Stskeepsthopiekar: prolly too much.18:03
lcuksince according to the seller they have had 31 offers i would say a bit more than peanuts18:03
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* Stskeeps would really prefer mer to be under auspices really18:03
lcukso would i sts18:03
lcukspeak to gan about ;)18:03
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thopiekarwhat about
keesjI would prefer it to live under a german site18:04 for the freanch speaking18:04 is assigned <;p=thMx..&amp;search=assigned>18:04
lcuksince we are linux hackers why are we even bothering with domain names, sts - whats your catch mer ip address :D18:05
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RST38hjohnx: Dunno, frankly I prefer not to breed new entities, whatever reasons are....18:07
johnxRST38h, which is why you check your main in 'mail' and browse the net with telnet? :P18:07
RST38hkeesj: or even la.mer.de18:07
RST38hjohnx: correct18:08
johnx...and why you yell at the 'damn kids' to 'get off your lawn'? :D18:08
lcuk109.101.104.33  !!!!!18:08
* RST38h has got no lawn, that is the only thing stopping him18:09
johnxas long as that's established then :)18:09
ShadowJKspeaking of batteries...18:09
ShadowJKOne of my AA NIMH batteries just shorted in the charger18:09
RST38hHow much property damage?18:10
ShadowJKFunny smell, fizzling, very hot, melted part of the charger :)18:10
lcuknormally those things go up like a claymore18:10
ShadowJKnot nimh18:10
johnxhmmm...I'm beginning to have doubts about my zaurus' charging circuitry *sigh*18:10
MeizirkkiAfter disabling nepomuk, KDE 4 with Qt 4.5 feels like a bit faster than the old one :(18:12
Corsachhm, maemo can't mount ext3 on the external mmc card?18:15
Stskeepshave to insmod ext318:15
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Corsachmh, ok18:16
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RST38hlcuk: NiMH is relatively harmless18:17
lcukstill not good when they go.18:18
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, as do I, though I don't see much purpose to a whole subdomain.18:19
Corsacerf, I don't have ext3.ko, that's why :/18:19
johnxCorsac, it's in /mnt/initfs/lib/`uname -r`/18:19
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: yeah, but still wondering how to include it more into maemo.org18:19
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, if you really want.18:20
GeneralAntillesI like the wiki, though, personally.18:20
GeneralAntillesMakes it agile.18:20
Stskeepsyeah, i do too currently18:20
johnxthank you!18:21
GeneralAntillesflorian, typo on "Mameo".18:22
florianGeneralAntilles: eeks.. one sec18:22
GeneralAntillesflorian, "The Maemo Tutorial is a provides quite easy" is a little funny, too. ;)18:23
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florianyeah... I didn't manage to read the text again... had to play with the kids a little bit :)18:25
MeizirkkiStskeeps> can i try to play with marquee without the new unreleased hildon-desktop you were talking about _18:25
johnxStskeeps, thanks for that. should make things a lot easier to just jump into and start re-arranging things18:25
florianGeneralAntilles: its easy to see when they started to distract me :)18:27
StskeepsMeizirkki: not yet sorry, but i think i have something sane later today18:27
florianGeneralAntilles: thanks for the hints!18:27
Stskeepsjohnx: i hope to make it resolution independent so18:27
MeizirkkiStskeeps, ok18:27
Stskeepsok, i'm confused, which are the "acknowledged" icon sizes of Maemo?18:31
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GeneralAntillesflorian, sure. ;)18:38
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ShadowJKCorsac, look in /mnt/initfs/lib/modules ?18:48
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florian   mnby<nm #y18:59
Stskeepscat or fallen asleep19:00
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, in one sentence, how do you describe the maemo council ? :)19:02
* b-man wonders if compositing is worth trying in mer19:02
CorsacShadowJK: yeah thanks I managed to do that19:02
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, (I need this to GSoC :) )19:02
Stskeepsb-man: how does it work?19:03
Stskeepsin ubuntu19:03
b-manit runs pritty well19:03
Stskeepssoftware rendering or?19:03
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b-mani have mesa installed19:04
b-man(software rendered)19:05
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* b-man is not shure if the current tablets support hw compositing or not19:06
b-manif there is such a thing..19:07
RST38hthey do not19:07
JaffaVDVsx: Council elected by users to represent community interests to Nokia19:07
VDVsxJaffa, humm, I don't like the nokia name here :)19:08
VDVsxthe the rest sounds good :)19:08
JaffaVDVsx: to represent community interests with interested bodies19:09
b-manbtw, i found out what was loose in my N800, when i took the faceplate off one of the small brakets fell out - it broke off :P19:10
Stskeepsb-man: auch :P19:10
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* b-man is considering to buy a new faceplate now :P19:11
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VDVsxJaffa, thansk :)19:11
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b-manthe corner that it fell on was also bent in :(19:11
b-man(on the faceplate)19:12
qwerty12Stskeeps, looks good but I dunno if I'll be able to adjust easy - on every device I've had, the X has *always* been in the top right hand corner.19:12
Stskeepsqwerty12: oh, it will be there19:12
infobotqwerty12 meant: Stskeeps, looks good but I dunno if I'll be able to adjust easily - on every device I've had, the X has *always* been in the top right hand corner.19:12
Stskeepsit's the function that's interesting19:12
qwerty12ah. cool :)19:13
Stskeepswe will probably have to do some usability testing on it though19:13
ProteousIf my x's aren't in the top right I start killing hostages19:14
Proteousalways seems to let me get what I want19:14
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* Meizirkki is looking forward to mess with hildon19:19
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Stskeepsany plans?19:27
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Meizirkkii'm planning to start with .conf files from ubuntu-MID and hildon-theme-mobile-basic.19:30
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MeizirkkiStskeeps, what's needed for apps without the top border?19:31
lcuknothing i assume, that should come from gtk/x11 itselrf19:31
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lcukie i can run same apps as i do currently in an x11 window manager without borders19:32
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Khertan_n810Hello !19:33
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lcukAck !19:34
lcukhow you doin khertan19:34
Khertan_n810Hello !19:34
Khertan_n810Fine ...19:34
Khertan_n810a bit tired but fine :)19:34
* lcuk raises a sunday afternoon pint and offers you one19:35
* Khertan_n810 thx lvuk19:35
Khertan_n810and you how do you do ?19:36
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lcuki think im ok, i spent most of yesterday fixing the missus's computer19:36
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lcukand ive found something possibly better than bacon!19:37
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lcuktracy made a lemon n lime drizzle cake!19:38
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StskeepsMeizirkki: hmm?19:50
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, just to be clear, though, it's the Maemo Community Council. ;)19:52
Khertan_n810what do you think of this screenshot ?19:53
StskeepsKhertan_n810: looks great19:53
qwerty12~curse GTK19:54
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, GTK !19:54
thopiekarwhere is the menu?19:54
StskeepsKhertan_n810: would it look ok with a 52px marquee in the top?19:55
Khertan_n810marquee ?19:55
Khertan_n810it s custom widget19:55
Stskeeps(ignore the bad art)19:55
Khertan_n810for the display19:55
Khertan_n810so it can be only 320*24019:55
Khertan_n810or less :)19:55
thopiekarlook like 800x600... what about when it's not fullscreen'd?19:55
GeneralAntillesKhertan_n810, I still think the buttons are ugly. :P19:55
Khertan_n810gan ... u don t have my finger :)19:56
RST38hKhertan: it is pretty19:57
Khertan_n810not in fullscreen :)19:57
RST38hKhertan: will be better if you either draw month view as a proper grid (rather than a mtrix of squares) or make some spacing between squares19:58
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, thanks, I do this mistake all the time :(19:58
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Khertan_n810RST38h ? really ? month view calendar are always matrix of squares19:58
GeneralAntillesVDVsx, it's OK, you've got two more slip ups until the beatings commence. :P19:58
Khertan_n810not in fullscreen week view19:59
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GeneralAntillesKhertan_n810, I'm not in love with the fixed-width font.19:59
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, lol20:00
GeneralAntillesI'd just use the regular sans.20:00
GeneralAntillesKhertan_n810, alternatively, as long as it's configurable. . . .20:00
thopiekarthe bar below should have the same color as the theme'd color for the background.. maemos theme has here rounded windows so the app should have that, too...20:01
Khertan_n810may be configurable20:01
Khertan_n810thopiekar ... nopme20:01
Khertan_n810im not ok that tool bar should have the same background that window20:02
lcukKhertan_n810, looks good, have you got the performance you expected yet?20:02
Khertan_n810not it s work well20:02
Khertan_n810i ve do my own widget _)20:03
thopiekarsure but it could be a solution for the theming "problem"..20:03
lcukyeah i said that :P20:03
Khertan_n810thopiekar ... yep i didn t like any of the maemo theme20:04
Khertan_n810strange choice20:04
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Khertan_n810like the window border20:05
thopiekarmeta in gray would be better20:05
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Khertan_n810meta ?20:05
lcukits a theme once out it should be changable shouldnt it20:06
thopiekarthe meta theme.. don't know how it'S complete name was but was called like this...20:06
lcuktechnically cant users just grab the one from the alpha and try directly on device?20:06
lcukwhere are they stored?20:06
thopiekarmy device is in a repair shop since the last 3 weeks20:07
Stskeepslcuk: it will mess up horridly cos of h-d incompatibility probably and its not mb220:07
lcukworth a shot though!20:07
qwerty12lcuk, look in /scratchbox/users/faheem/scratchbox/users/faheem/targets/FREMANTLE_ARMEL/usr/share/themes/devel - quite a few folders added20:07
infobotqwerty12 meant: lcuk, look in /scratchbox/users/$USER/scratchbox/users/faheem/targets/FREMANTLE_ARMEL/usr/share/themes/devel - quite a few folders added20:07
* thopiekar is away again..20:09
*** thopiekar is now known as thopiekar_away20:09
lcukqwerty12, do you think they are meant to be there20:10
lcukcos theres some stuff i see there that does not match with current apps20:10
lcukpretty stuff20:10
qwerty12lcuk, hmm, I don't think they were intentionally put there but looking at the other secrets the SDK is revealing, I don't think Nokia care so much imho20:10
qwerty12s/intentionally put there/intentionally put there to be discovered/20:11
infobotqwerty12 meant: lcuk, hmm, I don't think they were intentionally put there to be discovered but looking at the other secrets the SDK is revealing, I don't think Nokia care so much imho20:11
Stskeepsi don't know, but i friggen love qgn_calendar_bg_mar.png.20:16
lcukStskeeps, are you thirsty?20:17
qwerty12Lol, applied it on my N800. Everything except the titlebar for dialogs fucked up :)20:18
Khertan_n810qgn_calendar_bg_mar.png ?20:20
qwerty12 :)20:20
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Khertan_n810hum more look like a gtk 1.0 theme20:22
qwerty12Lol, I don't think it's meant to be applied on a n800... (captain obvious speaking out)20:22
Khertan_n810does there is a wmware somewhere with the alpha sdk ?20:24
RST38hqwerty: the background keyboard really rules20:24
RST38hqwerty: have to commit it to the official distribution of osso xterm =)20:24
qwerty12RST38h, yeah, done by dnstase :)20:24
Khertan_n810ouch low battery20:24
GeneralAntillesLittle hacky for the official branch.20:25
qwerty12RST38h, I had to diff it manually and apply it to the diablo version though manually - it's done against a older version20:25
RST38hGeneral: it is the best solution for xterm though20:25
* RST38h suddenly remembered he is part of the osso xterm team20:25
RST38hShould I ? =)20:26
qwerty12Khertan_n810, - has the calendar pics20:26
qwerty12RST38h, depends. Be nice to actually see something from the community applied (<cough> rotation </cough>)20:28
Stskeepsbtw, what does "qgn" mean?20:28
Khertan_n810quim gil nokia :)20:28
qwerty12quality good nookie20:28
StskeepsKhertan_n810: that did cross my mind20:29
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timelE61iqgn comes from symbian20:33
timelE61iAs to what it means, i hope i don't know20:34
timelE61iI believe we got it from s90 which presumably got it from s60 either directly or via s8020:36
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timelE61iit has one benifit: easy to grep20:37
Khertan_n810calendar applet background20:38
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Khertan_n810so there will be a calendar in fremantle :)20:38
Stskeepssounds good to me, really20:38
timelE61iOr there might not be20:38
Khertan_n810or just a gtk calendar widget :)20:38
Stskeepsnow, will it connect to my very obscure oracle calendar system, heh20:39
GeneralAntilleslol, the newbies on itT are tearing into Shopper, lbt.20:39
GeneralAntilleslbt, now you know how the Canola guys feel. ;)20:40
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* qwerty12 passes lbt an MP520:40
Khertan_n810tearing ?20:41
GeneralAntillesKhertan_n810, pissing and moaning about how much they think it sucks.20:42
Khertan_n810there is still stupid gujys20:42
Khertan_n810look at comment for mCalendar20:42
Khertan_n810saying how it should be20:43
Khertan_n810but when i ask for help there is noone20:43
GeneralAntillestear into - To attack with great vigor or violence20:43
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GeneralAntillesKhertan_n810, itT is filled with silliness.20:44
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Khertan_n810i didn t go on it since some time20:45
Khertan_n810i ll go to eat ...20:46
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Khertan_n810good evening20:46
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* qwerty12 sighs in annoyance at the simplicity of making XChat use the second line of the task switcher to display text20:52
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Stskeepstht easy?20:54
qwerty12Yes, for GTK apps anyway. And I spent a shitload of time trying to figure it out :/. g_set_application_name for the first line and gtk_window_set_title for the second line20:55
Stskeepswhat's a fair distribution of apps vs statusbar area?20:56
Stskeeps1/3 apps, 2/3 statusbar?20:56
qwerty12I would love to see that fucking arrow that comes from having to many statusbar applets gone.20:56
Stskeepswe'll see20:57
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timelE61itear into comes from how lions and tigers attak their prey20:59
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timelE61iThe arrow is always needed21:00
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timelE61iA user could have 1000 items21:00
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qwerty12Meh, I'd happily sacrifice title space for more applet space. I use my applets more than I spend time staring at the title ;)21:01
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timelE61iNow, setting the limit at 6 or whatever definitely is/was stupid21:01
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timelE61iI take it the sdk has no hints about how those will work?21:02
lcuktimelE61i, yes, if it had simply eaten into the title space as required it wouldv been simpler21:02
lcuk / nicer21:03
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timelE61iOut of curiosity, are there *any* apps for which you care about window title? If so, why and how?21:04
GeneralAntillestimelE61i, I was thinking about that a few months ago, and I think it's limited to the browser.21:05
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lcuktimelE61i, without a titlebar, there is no other reasonable finger sized area with which to attach a standard menu to21:06
timelE61iDo you use mail/chat?21:06
GeneralAntillesBut the default title space is too limited to be useful on most sites, so. . . .21:06
timelE61iAnd do you irc?21:06
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derftimelE61i: Any editor will usually put the document name up there, which can be helpful.21:06
timelE61iNote: i'm not defending the diablo design21:06
lcukeither an app has to supply its own hanging menu icon or use something smaller and obscure21:06
timelE61iIt's stupid for browser as it prioritized appname over page title21:07
GeneralAntilleslcuk, how about a hardware key? . . . .21:07
timelE61iDerf: sure, but how critical is it when you're *editing* the file21:08
timelE61iAs opposed to task switching21:08
derftimelE61i: If you're switching between different versions of the same document?21:08
GeneralAntillesI always liked this mockup:
lcukmycode.c *21:08
timelE61iYou still task switch first...21:08
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: we have the minimenu now21:09
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, I'm not in love with the idea of diverging significantly from the Fremantle UI. . . .21:09
qwerty12Stskeeps, do themes have to be modified to use your layout?21:09
* lcuk would like to see completely different appbars as required but also based on specific templates21:09
GeneralAntillesOr, at least if you do also providing the Fremnatle layout as an option.21:09
Stskeepsqwerty12: a small tad :/21:09
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, OMG! You spelt Fremantle wrong!21:10
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, qwerty is messing me up this weekend. :(21:10
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: in either way, we're playing with the possibilities and see how flexible it is21:10
* GeneralAntilles is missing Dvorak.21:10
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, hehe, :P :)21:10
qwerty12(qwerty rules, but I'm biased)21:11
lcukGeneralAntilles, i would agree with that screenshot apart from i dont see why it cant be dynamic, the tab with the title *should* be able to go that small, but if a user only has a few applets it hurts no1 to show the title in a more enlarged title tab21:11
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: Mer is/was supposed to be the research OS to make community have a stronger voice :P21:11
GeneralAntilleslcuk, except for then developers will assume they have that much title space to play with.21:12
lcukno, developers dont control that area anyway21:12
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, alternatively: the Fremantle backport.21:12
lcukthey never have and never will21:12
GeneralAntillesand as the Fremantle backport, developers and users would appreciate it if you don't diverge too much from Maemo.21:13
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: obviously21:13
GeneralAntillesOtherwise, hello Mamona.21:13
Stskeepsbut i am not confident fremantle has titlebars21:13
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: ow, burn21:13
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: we'll see if these designs even make sense i guess21:14
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Stskeepselse it's trivial to reinstate21:14
GeneralAntillesAnyway, I think you should play as much as you want, but only so long as there's a good, familiar default for people to use.21:14
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lcukis mer a fremantle backport or is it a community implementation which can work on current and future devices?  i thought it was the latter and there will be things mer cannot do which means it may be distinct.  unless of course nokia got onboard and actively tried to help to make mer the core for now and future21:15
Stskeepslcuk: there's interesting conflicts between what it is :P21:15
Stskeepsif mer was a fremantle backport, as in, adjusting fremantle packages to run on n8x0, i wouldn't work on it21:16
Stskeepsand nothing new was to be implementing than just a backport of the existing system21:16
timelE61imer is what maemo should be in 5 years :)21:17
Stskeepsand the maintaining of it would die out slowly21:17
GeneralAntilleslcuk, I don't think it should diverge more than is necessary.21:17
lcukbut that is totally not what ive seen.  i see mer as a cleanup and a sanity check for maemo packages and so far im seeing excellent progress21:17
GeneralAntillesOtherwise you just get fragmentation.21:17
t_s_oand things start to turn openmoko like...21:18
GeneralAntillesPeople develop for the things with users.21:18
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: ah, the move to the marquee is actually to get closer to fremantle21:18
GeneralAntillesIn this case, Maemo is the thing with users.21:18
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, I'm not addressing anything specific.21:19
RST38hAnyone knows what application to use to play divx/xvid videos on Nokia 5800?21:19
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RST38h(SmartMovie reports unknown format, Divx player is not compatible)21:20
qwerty12RST38h, tried its converter?21:21
qwerty12RST38h, see if CorePlayer is available - I swear by that app on a PPC21:21
StskeepstimelE61i: we're adapting ubuntu mobile's marquee into something vaguely sane21:21
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RST38hqwerty: ah21:23
RST38hLemme see...21:24
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StskeepstimelE61i: has examples of it in use21:27
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, did you switch to a real Mer logo yet?21:27
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: waiting for wazd still21:28
timelE61iwill that kill my browser? :)21:29
RST38hCorePlayer for 5800 seems to exist21:30
qwerty12RST38h, go for it then, 700MB xvid are played fine with it on a PPC and on my brother's N7321:30
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GeneralAntillesWoo, PM asking how to install Open Office.21:32
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GeneralAntillestimelE61i, private message. itT.21:32
timelE61iOn an n800?21:33
timelE61i1. Get an mmc for boot device21:33
Proteous2. Eat a samich21:33
timelE61i2. Download image for mmc w/ ooo preinstalled21:33
Proteous3. take a break21:33
Proteous4. pet the cat21:34
timelE61i.. Walk the dog21:34
qwerty12cats merk dogs21:34
VDVsxGeneralAntilles, thanks for your corrections :)21:35
timelE61igan: the question only specified install, not run, correct?21:35
fireun5. profits!21:35
Proteousmerk != merc21:36
GeneralAntilles"I'm new here and trying to figure out how I can read and compose word documents on my Nokia N810. I like the look of the Open Office app, but have no idea how to get that program on to my Nokia."21:36
Proteousapt-get install WORD.EXE21:36
timelE61imore like invest in nokia stock. Pull a van winkle. Wake up to profit!21:36
qwerty12Proteous, true :), my spelling sucks; give me a break :P21:36
timelE61iInstall abiword..21:37
ProteousI would just remote desktop into a windows box...21:37
* timelE61i assumes ooo is more torturous than abiword21:37
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timelE61iproteous: in my case, that'd involve setting up the vpn client21:38
ProteousI just tunnel RD through SSh21:38
Proteouspoor mans VPN21:39
* timelE61i nods21:39
timelE61ii could do that21:39
Proteousalthough using Remote Desktop with the stylus on that high res screen is sorta hard21:40
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Proteouseverything is so small21:40
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timelE61iExtra large fonts?21:42
timelE61iWindows does support dpis21:42
timelE61iAlthough 3rd party apps...21:42
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Proteousand I'm usualy going into boxes that I use on a normal screen21:42
Proteousmost of the time21:42
Proteousit's not horrible21:43
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Proteoustrying to double tap in the right place to get a right click can be tough21:43
Proteousmost of the stuff that I am doing with RD on the tablet is sys admin stuff, click on the wrong thing and bad stuff happens21:44
timelE61iOsk? :)21:44
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timelE61imy favorite is remotely downing the ethernet interface21:45
Proteousmakes it hard to fix21:45
Proteoushitting shutdown instead of restart21:46
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Proteousor logout21:46
timelE61ii've done that too21:46
timelE61iThankfully i think i've only usually downed solaris/linux remotely21:47
timelE61iBut i locally accidentally down my wXP laptop21:47
timelE61iBecause it queues things badly21:47
ProteousI've been RDed into a dev server and a live server and mistakenly shutdown the wrong one21:48
Proteousone was in the room with me, one was in a colo...21:48
timelE61iYou don't have distinct colorschemes?21:48
Proteousdidn't realize why I couldn't get to the live server till I had someone go to the colo too see why I couldn't get to the box21:48
Proteousno, was a n00b21:49
timelE61iLesson learned?21:49
Proteoushah, yeah21:49
timelE61iThe primary bugzilla admin for has special css to color bugzilla based on his active login cookie21:50
timelE61i... Similar issue21:50
timelE61iTechnically, it's greasemonkey, not pure css21:50
timelE61iBecause bugzilla will show you a bug based on current cookie21:51
Proteousa lot easy to do with with GM21:51
timelE61iBut accept changes based on the next cookie21:51
timelE61iW/o  complaint21:51
derfBack when I still used Windows, I'd sometimes grab the wrong keyboard and hit ctl-alt-del...21:51
timelE61iCss can't respond to cookies, so gm is needed21:51
derf...then I'd look over and see my Linux box shutting down.21:52
timelE61iDerf: when i do that, ..yeah21:52
Proteouswell, you could do some scripting on the server end...21:52
timelE61iA unix box dies21:52
timelE61iProteos, yeah, bugzilla should embed the current user into the form and warn about mismatches21:52
timelE61iAdmin's don't have time to fix21:53
GAN800I wish bugzilla had some more UI conveniences.21:53
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GAN800Prettier, more compact bug lists.21:54
* timelE61i walks home from dinner21:54
GAN800A little sprinkle of AJAX here and there.21:54
timelE61ium, compact how?21:54
Proteous5pt font21:55
Proteousall vowels stripped21:55
timelE61iYou can pick the columns you want..21:55
GAN800timelE61i, yeah, but the display could be more efficient. I've been thinking about making a mockup.21:56
timelE61ibtw, have you tried deskzilla?21:56
GAN800timelE61i, no. All the alternative bugzilla interfaces I've tried so far have sucked.21:57
timelE61ipersonally, i find gmail buglists work for me :)21:57
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ProteousI like cakezilla21:58
Proteoustastes like cake21:58
GAN800Mmm . . . cake.21:58
Proteousunless you are a pie person21:58
Proteousthen you can just go away21:58
GAN800I want some rum cake now.21:59
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Proteouslookout for the web based IRC clients!!22:00
* Proteous runs for the hills22:00
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timelE61iis that the obscene past tense of to snot?22:03
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qwerty12MERC MERC22:05
timelE61ibill bill?22:05
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timelE61iSonic screwdriver22:06
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* RST38h does not understand what the hell is going on in TI83+ SE22:08
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* lcuk hands RST38h a delorean22:08
* timeless wonders if people get the references used here ^^22:09
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GAN800timeless, perhaps we should provide footnotes.22:11
lcukno, foot notes are useless with a hand optimized OS22:11
* RST38h has seen the real delorean at his mechanics place once22:12
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RST38hFunny looking thing, all steel, no paint, etc22:16
GAN800Slow as hell.22:16
RST38hFlux capacitor was missing, I guess that was the reason they brought it for repair22:16
RST38hGAN: That is because your also missed the flux capacitor =)22:17
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lcukflux capacitor has always been an aftermarket mod22:22
lcuki think west coast customs can fit them22:22
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b-manhello, AndrewFBlack :)22:24
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lcukgive me strength!   youngest now has the nicest smelling hair in existence.  lynx pulse of all things22:27
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guysoft42hey, does anyone here know how to solve audio problems on easy-deb-chroot?22:34
guysoft42it seems to have a problem22:34
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guysoft42it seems to have stoped after i installed audacity22:38
RST38hAll right, now I am almost sure that TI83+SE/TI84+/TI84+SE firmwares at the TI site are not complete22:39
RST38hFirmware goes to page 0x7F at startup which does not seem to exist in the 8Xu file22:39
lcukRST38h, is there a chance the machines some raw factory files when replacing the firmware22:39
RST38hlcuk: Well, I have not found raw binaries. TI provides .8Xu files with some hex data in a special format but it seems to be missing pages beyond 0x1D22:40
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lcukdamn! thats like getting a read your own adventure book, but finding page 97 is missing22:42
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GAN800lcuk, it's OK, you just die there.22:43
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RST38hGAN: *You* die, I just start digging =)22:45
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mavhcrewrite your own adventure, the wiki version22:50
mavhcit's a multiuser version, you have to follow the instructions on the page, but before you leave you can edit them for the next visitor22:50
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lcukmavhc, i saw a variation using youtube - it was kinda cool22:57
mavhcturn left and go to page x87a790sb976, turn right and go to page laks865as86522:58
* b-man discovers what might be PowerVR driver sorce while looking at some maemo5 kernel sorce, hmm 23:04
lcukb-man, yeah thats likely since the omap3 includes one ;)23:04
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lcukand world+dog has announced it will be used23:04
b-mani wonder if it's possible to modify for our cpu..23:05
lbtGAN800: thanks for the heads up on itt - posted a couple of responses :) I really think I need a bit of help text!23:06
GeneralAntillesb-man, no.23:07
GeneralAntillesb-man, we have OMAP2430 stuff that we can't even use.23:08
lcukb-man, technicaly there might be some parallels but it would be very difficult to find23:08
lcukgan there is more chance of using the series 3 stuff to be honest, all we have for the 2430 is a binary23:09
lcukthe series 3 api should eb documented etc23:09
lcuklbt, left a message on the forum thread :P23:09
lbtyeah - valid criticisms23:10
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lcuklbt, feh! you have done something no1 has yet.  you are trailblazing!  han solo looks upon you with envy23:12
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lcuktracy likes the shopping cart icon23:13
lbtInkscape :)23:13
lcukher words when i said look for shopper in the applicaiton list were "show shopper?"23:13
GeneralAntilleslbt, problem is, those criticisms are all wrapped up in bad attitude.23:13
GeneralAntillesQt seems to result in overlarge taskbar icons.23:14
lbtI fiddled and 0.5.6 is much nicer23:14
lbtand it does portrait23:15
lbtwhich is *REALLY* good :D23:15
lbtReally goof23:15
lbtlike - rabble rousing to irritate nokia to put it in the kernel good23:15
lbtwell, maybe not *that* good :)23:15
GeneralAntilleslbt, already been tried.23:16
GeneralAntillesDiablo's dead, anyway.23:16
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GeneralAntillesWe couldn't even get them to ship stupid categories.23:16
lbtI saw...23:16
GeneralAntilleslbt, I think dropping the page background from the Shopper icons would help.23:17
GeneralAntillesOr just stick to Nokia icons23:17
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lbtif you zoom in you can *read* my icons23:17
lbtthey make bacon butties IIRC23:18
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lbtI'll make it themeable one day... now, back to Mer - an OS that won't let you down...23:18
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lcuklbt - the icons are fully scalable and contain extremely detailed contents?23:24
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lbtthere are svg ones yes23:24
lbtalthough I admit I used bitmaps in the released version :)23:25
lcukwhats the difference between "Bread" and "Bread (nice)"23:27
lbttell tracy the icon now has shoes on it...23:27
lcuki darent23:27
lbtBread (nice) is like tiger bread23:27
lbtor ciabatta23:27
lcukshe will use it to fullest extent23:27
lcuk"but the nokia said i needed them"23:27
lbtheh - wait 'til you see the next default shopping list....23:28
lbtoh, that's going to cost...23:28
lcukwe have already spoken about a food timer app, she currently sets about 10 alarms spread over the 2 hours needed to cook sunday lunch, would be easier if she had a simple way to do it23:29
lcuk^note, she uses her nokia phone for this manually23:29
lcukand spends at least 10 minutes preparing it23:29
lbtheh - that's a good idea23:30
lcukdavid, an end to end system would be nice - tie in receipe selection with a shopping list23:30
lcuk"i need to make 4 sunday roasts23:30
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lcukyes gan, i saw it - but thats a single timer, tracy sets loads23:31
lcukunless i misread the app and it can have a load23:31
lcukdavid, how heavy weight would it be to add photograph stuff for shopper23:32
lcukand a link to lardmans barcode23:33
lcukcan see a whole suit of interrelated apps relating to everyday life.23:33
lcuk+ /me23:33
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lbtI am interested in that kind of thing23:41
lbtTBH, my next step was to link into the GPS so it would pull up the right list as you approached the shop23:42
lcukdepending on the machine that wont always work, normally you will only need a few things, just give a big easy hit filter with the 3 or 4 shops you normally hit23:43
lcukbut also, dont you sometimes make a paper list and try asda, then tescos for the remains23:43
lbtthis is more sainsbury vs tesco23:43
lbtoh, something just crossed my mind23:43
lbtwhen Shopper runs like this the Qt menus don't crop correctly23:44
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lcuki cant run rotated yet, i need to file a real bug about it23:45
lbtso if Nokia add rotation to Diablo then that's the kind of bug I think they're worried about23:45
lbtcan liqbase run on a kernel with rotate though?23:45
lcukadd rotation anywhere23:45
qwerty12_N800lcuk: the kernel comes w/out the 48mhz stuff too23:45
lcukerrr ummm eeee, no23:45
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lcukxv fails with graphics over 480*48023:45
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lbtsaves energy23:46
lbtall that lack23:46
lcukand i havent forcefully tried since, i was hoping mer would be in a good enough shape to allow tracing through the omapfb and xv and x11 to find the bug myself23:46
lcukit does not know how to properly handle things anyway - most of the ui elements were fixed at aspect23:47
lcukscalable but still oriented landscale23:47
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lcukbefore i knew the kernel could rotate in hardware i had internal support for rotation which kinda withered once jott released the patch23:49
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lcukwhat do midori/tear do when they encounter javascript?23:51
lcukdo they expose a "parseandrunscript" handler?23:51
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