| Stskeeps | we have a .. homemade builder infrastructure which is basically an amateurish pbuilder and a scratchbox builder | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| lbt | would it be a good idea to start moving to a more scalable thing like mamona/oe? or isn't that a useful discussion yet? | 00:01 |
| lbt | when I last used oe I typed 'oe build' and a few days later got a full distro - kinda like gentoo but grown-up :) | 00:01 |
| lbt | anyhoo - my virtualbox only just booted so it's a bit premature.. <grin> | 00:03 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, well, we are closer to debian for the fact most of maemo is debian package based :) | 00:03 |
| Stskeeps | so, that's just a choice | 00:03 |
| Stskeeps | gentoo has some advantages and debian has some, so | 00:03 |
| Stskeeps | and i would say debian packages and building them is quite scalable :P | 00:04 |
| lbt | yeah - I'm just being confused about usind the oe buildsystem to build a set of debian packages - not sure it makes sense or even does that | 00:04 |
| lbt | ignore me for a bit whilst I get my head round things :) | 00:04 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 00:04 |
| RST38h | Is it true that GIMP does not let users draw rectangles, circles etc? I cannot find these anywhere in the menus | 00:06 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: the GNU hive mind does not believe in rectangles and circles | 00:07 |
| lbt | RST38h: select a circle/elipse | 00:08 |
| lbt | click select-to-path | 00:08 |
| lbt | stroke-path | 00:08 |
| lbt | it's just too powerful for the mortal mind | 00:08 |
| lbt | however inkscape is pretty damned hot too if you want mere geometry | 00:09 |
| lbt | (witness the awesome Shopper logo!) | 00:10 |
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| RST38h | lbt: Ah! Thanks! | 00:13 |
| RST38h | Sts: lbt is right - this thing is way too powerful to be usable | 00:13 |
| lbt | oops - Mer captured my mouse | 00:13 |
| lbt | once you get used to how it works it's very nice :) | 00:14 |
| woglinde | hi rst | 00:14 |
| lbt | but for 'drawing'... | 00:14 |
| lbt | have you tried Xara? | 00:14 |
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| GAN800 | lbt, no N810, no rotation atm. | 00:16 |
| lbt | GAN800: OK - I need more testers then ;) | 00:16 |
| Stskeeps | GAN800: poll, SSU, possible raging fit, btw.. | 00:16 |
| dick-richardson | can I talk someone into running ls -lha in ~/ and telling me what the symlink is? I removed mine and would like it back. | 00:18 |
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| GAN800 | Stskeeps, raging fit? | 00:19 |
| Stskeeps | GAN800: well, ok, maybe a bit exagratted :) but sounds a bit like no more SSUs? | 00:20 |
| Stskeeps | (sp) | 00:20 |
| lbt | dick-richardson: ? | 00:20 |
| GAN800 | Stskeeps, yeah, well, I'm launching a frontal assault on Nokia HQ, so they better watch the fuck out. | 00:21 |
| lbt | GAN800: anything to do with the rotation bug comments... ? | 00:21 |
| dick-richardson | lbt, there's a symlink in user's home directory that affects UI (hiding the mouse pointer, etc.)...I removed mine for some reason weeks ago and would like it back | 00:21 |
| lbt | .icons -> /usr/share/user-icons is the only symlink I have there | 00:22 |
| Stskeeps | GAN800: mm | 00:22 |
| dick-richardson | that's the one. :) | 00:22 |
| * Stskeeps goes back to hn-app-switcher.c and hn-app-button.c | 00:22 | |
| lbt | :) | 00:23 |
| dick-richardson | you're good people, lbt | 00:23 |
| lbt | we aim to please | 00:23 |
| dick-richardson | can I get the owner and permissions on it? | 00:23 |
| lbt | only if you promise to download Shopper and test it for me! | 00:23 |
| dick-richardson | fair enough | 00:23 |
| lbt | symlinks don't have owner/perms | 00:24 |
| lbt | so root/root is OK | 00:24 |
| lbt | and they appear as lrwxrwxrwx | 00:24 |
| lbt | (AFAIUI) | 00:24 |
| dick-richardson | :) you gotta link to shopper? | 00:25 |
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| GAN800 | Seriously, Stskeeps, we didn't go through all that categories bullshit to have Nokia assrape us like this. | 00:25 |
| lbt | as it happens... http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/shopper/ | 00:25 |
| lbt | you need extras-devel though | 00:25 |
| lbt | for Qt | 00:25 |
| dick-richardson | already got it | 00:25 |
| lbt | cool ;) | 00:26 |
| lbt | GAN800: where are you getting this? | 00:26 |
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| GAN800 | lbt, Mara said no more SSU's. | 00:27 |
| lbt | where? - just looking for the source to save you repeating it :) | 00:27 |
| GAN800 | Which means no new package categories for Diablo, which means I'm going to start killing people. | 00:28 |
| GAN800 | lbt, itT. | 00:28 |
| lbt | OK | 00:28 |
| Stskeeps | GAN800: mm, nothing i was directly involved in, but it is the danger of vendor-controlled OS'es | 00:28 |
| * GAN800 is too lazy to open the browser and copy/paste the URL on a tablet. | 00:28 | |
| lbt | 's OK | 00:28 |
| lbt | I just dl'ed Mer.... | 00:29 |
| GAN800 | Stskeeps, doesn't matter, they're still getting hell for it. | 00:29 |
| lbt | (those statements were not connected BTW) | 00:29 |
| Stskeeps | lbt: http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=27348&highlight=ssu | 00:29 |
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| GAN800 | Seriously, it's not like they didn't have time to integrate it and it's not like we didn't do all they goddamn work. | 00:30 |
| GAN800 | They are __NOT__ going to fragment us like this because they're too lazy to ship one more goddamn update. | 00:31 |
| lbt | I could point out that there's a major credit crunch on at the moment and this could not be the best timing on either side... | 00:31 |
| lbt | I do hear what you say though | 00:32 |
| GAN800 | lbt, not flying here. :) | 00:33 |
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| lbt | it may (or may not be) a factor | 00:33 |
| dick-richardson | couldn't that work be applied in rx-<next_version_to_be_released_with_new_hardware>? | 00:33 |
| lbt | if it supports N8x0 ? | 00:34 |
| dick-richardson | well, yeah | 00:34 |
| dick-richardson | or in the back-ported version that is | 00:35 |
| lbt | someone was on earlier trying to run my apps on her N770 | 00:35 |
| dick-richardson | or is Mer it? | 00:35 |
| lbt | my Diablo app | 00:35 |
| GAN800 | We can't ship two separate sets of categories for Diablo and Fremantle. | 00:35 |
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| lcuk | 3 if mer has to stand alone :P | 00:39 |
| dick-richardson | damnit my wife already left. I was gonna have her test your app, lbt | 00:39 |
| lbt | heh - no worries | 00:40 |
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| lbt | Stskeeps: so how do I setup a/the builder? | 00:49 |
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| woglinde | good nite | 00:56 |
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| lbt | Stskeeps: basically I need to be able to run or fool ./configure | 01:07 |
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| b-man | ~ping | 03:13 |
| b-man | ~ping | 03:13 |
| b-man | :/ | 03:13 |
| infobot | ~pong | 03:13 |
| infobot | ~pong | 03:13 |
| b-man | :) | 03:14 |
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| b-man | hmmm | 03:24 |
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| * b-man installs google-gadgets-gtk in his ubuntu install on his N800 :) | 03:56 | |
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| *** b-man is now known as b-man_ubuntu | 05:04 | |
| Macer | damn debian kicks ass :) | 05:09 |
| Macer | i'm really liking it now heh | 05:09 |
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| * b-man_ubuntu is chatting from ubuntu on his N800 atm :) | 05:15 | |
| Shadow__X | b-man_ubuntu, keyboard? | 05:16 |
| b-man_ubuntu | xkbd :) | 05:17 |
| b-man_ubuntu | i'm also running google-gadgets :D | 05:18 |
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| jaem | hello | 05:41 |
| jaem | qwerty12: around? | 05:41 |
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| b-man_ubuntu | ~seen qwerty12 | 05:48 |
| infobot | qwerty12 <n=faheem@78-86-35-231.zone2.bethere.co.uk> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 11h 10m 49s ago, saying: 'np'. | 05:49 |
| b-man_ubuntu | ~seen qwerty12_N800 | 05:49 |
| infobot | qwerty12_n800 is currently on #maemo (7h 1m 54s). Has said a total of 4 messages. Is idling for 6h 25m 12s, last said: 'ah'. | 05:49 |
| jaem | does anyone know if qwerty12's conky deb on maemobox is fully working? | 05:49 |
| jaem | e.g. has anyone tried it? | 05:50 |
| b-man_ubuntu | it worked for me | 05:50 |
| jaem | that's good, thanks | 05:51 |
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| jaem | b-man_ubuntu: did you come to any conclusions about why the Ubuntu ts calibration was off for me? | 05:51 |
| jaem | I can't really give it another try until after exams (Friday) | 05:52 |
| b-man_ubuntu | i think it is the tslib package, when i installed it i had the same problem | 05:53 |
| jaem | the tslib package from where? | 05:53 |
| b-man_ubuntu | ubuntu-n8x0 repo | 05:54 |
| jaem | okay | 05:54 |
| jaem | I'm looking forward to checking it out again - I might give neatojones' E17 packages a spin | 05:54 |
| b-man_ubuntu | i'd just remove it ;) | 05:54 |
| b-man_ubuntu | :) | 05:54 |
| jaem | I'm not normally a fan of E17, but Illume looks like it's worth trying | 05:54 |
| jaem | the sliding "shelves' (or whatever they're called) reminded me of an MID mockup I saw a while back | 05:55 |
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| b-man_ubuntu | it looks really awsome :D | 05:55 |
| jaem | it was a widescreen form factor, but probably half again as wide as the N8x0, and it has a split keyboard on the two sides | 05:55 |
| jaem | that presumably slid out when you tapped something | 05:56 |
| jaem | (on-screen kbd, that is) | 05:56 |
| jaem | I'm still waiting for KDE MID edition :P | 05:56 |
| * jaem checks commit history on plasma-mid | 05:57 | |
| b-man_ubuntu | plasma-mid? | 05:57 |
| jaem | it's a version of plasma for MIDs, not surprisingly | 05:57 |
| b-man_ubuntu | :) | 05:58 |
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| jaem | hmm... some recent work, but not much | 05:58 |
| jaem | :( | 05:59 |
| b-man_ubuntu | btw, i'm going to remove that tslib dependence from tablet-x to fix that touchscreen problem | 05:59 |
| jaem | okay, thanks | 05:59 |
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| * b-man_ubuntu doesn't even know why he put that in there in the first place XD | 06:00 | |
| jaem | and the performance? Was that just me? | 06:01 |
| b-man_ubuntu | it was a late night :) | 06:01 |
| jaem | ah yes... I remember when I was first learning Linux, I was doing stuff late at night... | 06:01 |
| b-man_ubuntu | lol | 06:02 |
| jaem | ...and moved /usr/* to a subdirectory of /usr >_< | 06:02 |
| b-man_ubuntu | ohh | 06:02 |
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| jaem | the nice thing about Linux, though, is that you can trash your system, and still often fix it | 06:02 |
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| b-man_ubuntu | indeed :) | 06:02 |
| jaem | sometimes, if I'm uninstalling my desktop, I won't even bother to drop to runlevel 3 - just because I can | 06:02 |
| jaem | I heard a story about some guys with a VAX back in the day, who blammoed /etc and most of /bin on a box that they couldn't take down to fix | 06:03 |
| jaem | and they managed to set it right :D | 06:03 |
| b-man_ubuntu | hehe | 06:04 |
| b-man_ubuntu | that's interesting :) | 06:05 |
| jaem | ah - here we go: http://www.ee.ryerson.ca/~elf/hack/recovery.html | 06:06 |
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| b-man_ubuntu | lol | 06:09 |
| b-man_ubuntu | wow | 06:10 |
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| benson | Heheh. | 06:22 |
| benson | Closest thing I've ever done was burned busybox on an N800. | 06:22 |
| jaem | ouch | 06:22 |
| jaem | was that fun? | 06:22 |
| benson | Was... interesting. | 06:22 |
| benson | I was surprised that I actually succeeded. | 06:23 |
| benson | Of course, having another machine handy helps. | 06:23 |
| jaem | yeah, definitely | 06:23 |
| * jaem needs to pick up another 8GB microSD card | 06:23 | |
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| * b-man_ubuntu has actually deleted /proc once - was not a nice site :P | 06:27 | |
| b-man_ubuntu | i allmost ruined my tablet | 06:28 |
| jaem | oh yay - my BT dongle does still work | 06:30 |
| jaem | I thought it was fried | 06:30 |
| jaem | my uni always has booths selling stuff one of the main buildings | 06:30 |
| jaem | and I think there must be a rule that you have to sell really sketchy merchandise to be allowed in there :P | 06:31 |
| jaem | my BT dongle has a MAC of 00:00:00:00:00:00 >_< | 06:31 |
| b-man_ubuntu | lol | 06:31 |
| hugo33 | lol | 06:31 |
| ShadowJK | jaem, linux? | 06:31 |
| b-man_ubuntu | heh | 06:31 |
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| jaem | also, the build style indicates that it was likely made by the same company that made one of my flash drives... the one that now is a PCB wrapped in duct tape >_< | 06:32 |
| jaem | ShadowJK: what about it? | 06:32 |
| ShadowJK | If linux, "hciconfig hci0 version", and paste the Manufacturer line :) | 06:32 |
| b-ubuntu | ooh | 06:32 |
| jaem | oh right | 06:32 |
| jaem | I wasn't sure what you were getting at | 06:33 |
| ShadowJK | which is the manufacturer of the radio, not the guys who soldered it to a pcb and slapped plastic around it :) | 06:33 |
| ShadowJK | but interesting nonetheless | 06:33 |
| jaem | yeah, I know | 06:33 |
| jaem | Can't read version info hci0: Connection timed out (110) | 06:33 |
| ShadowJK | lol | 06:33 |
| * jaem facepalms | 06:33 | |
| ShadowJK | unplug, replug :-) | 06:34 |
| b-ubuntu | lol | 06:34 |
| jaem | still doing it | 06:34 |
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| jaem | not that I'm surprised | 06:34 |
| jaem | the dongle had a RED bluetooth logo on the box | 06:34 |
| ShadowJK | unplug, restart hcid/bluetoothd/bluez, whatever it's called in your distro, replug | 06:34 |
| jaem | oh there we go | 06:35 |
| jaem | my mistake (wasn't thinking) | 06:35 |
| jaem | the MAC is actually 11:11:11:11:11:11 | 06:35 |
| jaem | that's what I meant to say | 06:36 |
| ShadowJK | I bet it's ISSC | 06:36 |
| jaem | Manufacturer: CONWISE Technology Corporation Ltd (66) | 06:36 |
| ShadowJK | I've never had the misfortune of encountering that before :) | 06:36 |
| jaem | hehe | 06:36 |
| ShadowJK | 66? That means there are atleast 65 manufacturers producing utter crap bluetooth chips :-( | 06:36 |
| jaem | I took a gamble, since I wanted one right then, and I didn't know of anything else I could get that day that could be guaranteed to work with Linux | 06:37 |
| jaem | the guy at the booth said he'd be back the next day, if I wanted to return it | 06:37 |
| jaem | it was some weeks later that I found out that they always say that, usually when they won't be back for weeks. | 06:37 |
| ShadowJK | :) | 06:38 |
| ShadowJK | I think they all work in Linux | 06:38 |
| jaem | Also, if you look at something, and then ask if they'll be back tomorrow after you've thought about it, they insist that it's the last day they'll be there | 06:38 |
| jaem | as I said... sketchy | 06:38 |
| hugo33 | When did sketchy stop meaning 'vague' and become 'of ill repute'? | 06:38 |
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| jaem | not sure :P | 06:39 |
| hugo33 | bogus, dude | 06:39 |
| ShadowJK | I have 4 bluetooth dongles... I was surprised the first time I tried to use one with windows XP. Only one of them worked :) | 06:39 |
| jaem | nice | 06:39 |
| jaem | ShadowJK: know anything about RFCOMM? | 06:39 |
| ShadowJK | 2 wasn't recognized, 1 kinda worked, but connections always broke after 5 seconds | 06:40 |
| ShadowJK | I have a setup with BlueZ 3.x | 06:40 |
| ShadowJK | in BlueZ 4.x they made the bluetooth api incompatible with their own tools, you're supposed to do dbus incantations through interactive python shell or something. | 06:41 |
| ShadowJK | :) | 06:41 |
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| ShadowJK | Or like, use the "user friendly" kde/gnome panel applets | 06:41 |
| jaem | blech | 06:41 |
| jaem | I like Blueman, personally | 06:41 |
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| ShadowJK | 3.x was easy-ish to setup | 06:42 |
| jaem | I wish it was Qt-based | 06:42 |
| * ShadowJK has a little ARM router/nas box connecting to internet via bluetooth and gprs as backup | 06:43 | |
| jaem | nice | 06:43 |
| ShadowJK | It doesn't have the CPU, diskspace or ram to run any of the bluetooth applets :/ | 06:43 |
| ShadowJK | and no graphics card either | 06:44 |
| jaem | are there any good sub-$100 (CAD) ARM boards that are Linux-friendly? | 06:44 |
| jaem | the Beagleboard looks nice, but I can't imagine it being terribly cheap | 06:44 |
| ShadowJK | 150 | 06:44 |
| ShadowJK | (beagle) | 06:44 |
| jaem | oh really? | 06:44 |
| jaem | hmm | 06:44 |
| * jaem may look into that | 06:44 | |
| ShadowJK | isn't it splattered all over their webpage? | 06:44 |
| jaem | I hadn't actually looked... I was just musing | 06:44 |
| ShadowJK | I'm using a NSLU2 anyway, flashed with openslug | 06:44 |
| luke-jr | NSLU2 is ARM? | 06:45 |
| ShadowJK | yeah | 06:45 |
| luke-jr | I figured it was MIPS | 06:45 |
| ShadowJK | "XScale-IXP42x Family rev 1 (v5b)" | 06:45 |
| ShadowJK | at a roaring 133MHz | 06:45 |
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| ShadowJK | half a decade old tech ;) | 06:46 |
| jaem | hmmm... and the Beagleboard can run Maemo 5? | 06:46 |
| jaem | or was it just that what can run on the Beagleboard will run on the RX-51? | 06:47 |
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| ShadowJK | don't know about that | 06:48 |
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| * ShadowJK wonders how much it would cost to have a sheevaplug shipped to finland :( | 06:48 | |
| jaem | :) they look nice | 06:49 |
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| ShadowJK | and cheap | 06:49 |
| jaem | someone was speculating a drop to $50 | 06:49 |
| jaem | that would be well worth it, then | 06:49 |
| jaem | I hesitate at the current price | 06:49 |
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| jaem | but it's still not bad | 06:49 |
| ShadowJK | They themselves speculate $50 on volume | 06:49 |
| ShadowJK | I am guessing this means if you order 10,000 you might get them at $50 each :) | 06:49 |
| jaem | well, get on it! :D | 06:50 |
| jaem | this calls for a pyramid scheme! | 06:50 |
| jaem | >_< | 06:50 |
| ShadowJK | dunno, the cute formfactor, not too crappy cpu power, and a comfortable .5 gig of ram for 99 | 06:51 |
| ShadowJK | doesn't sound expensive to me | 06:51 |
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| jaem | no, it's a pretty good deal as-is | 06:51 |
| jaem | I agree | 06:51 |
| jaem | I wish it had more I/O, though | 06:51 |
| jaem | and wifi | 06:51 |
| jaem | actually, wifi /would/ be awesome | 06:53 |
| ShadowJK | The problem is that there's always something new and better announced that you want to wait for | 06:53 |
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| jaem | just plug it into the wall, jack in a webcam/sensors/appliance/whatever and go | 06:53 |
| ShadowJK | tiny usb hub and usb wlan i gues | 06:54 |
| jaem | that would work | 06:54 |
| ShadowJK | good luck finding one with decent drivers though | 06:54 |
| * ShadowJK decides to sleep | 06:55 | |
| jaem | night | 06:55 |
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| cwbp | does anybody here know ralann? | 07:03 |
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| yukop4 | need help loading latest streamripper 1.63.5--anyone | 07:46 |
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| yukop4 | Thomas Pietrowski can you help with latest strearipper-cannot load on n800 | 07:50 |
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| RST38h | hmmm | 08:27 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt: sudo apt-get install build-essential | 09:58 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:13 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: correct (about vala last night) | 10:13 |
| lbt | Thanks Stskeeps - so build inside the vdk - which is why it's a v "dk" ... OK | 10:14 |
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| Stskeeps | nah, ita just cos sdk and os isn't seperate | 10:21 |
| Stskeeps | its just a mer disk image | 10:22 |
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| * Stskeeps yawns | 10:31 | |
| * timelE61i ponders sleep | 10:41 | |
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| * Stskeeps wakes up with coffee and a fresh look at hn-app-button.c | 10:42 | |
| lbt | b4 you do | 10:47 |
| lbt | does virtualbox provide a dhcp server? | 10:47 |
| lbt | my vb has a 10.0.2.15 ip | 10:47 |
| lbt | which is wrong | 10:47 |
| Stskeeps | when it's in NAT, yeah | 10:49 |
| Stskeeps | you can adjust the network parameters afaik | 10:49 |
| lbt | OK - I guess I have to shut down first... | 10:49 |
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| Stskeeps | Corsac, lbt: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-hmm.png | 11:13 |
| Corsac | \o/ | 11:13 |
| Stskeeps | really really need artwork though :P | 11:15 |
| lbt | :D | 11:16 |
| lbt | maybe I should take up graphic design : http://shopper.garage.maemo.org/Shopper-rot.png | 11:17 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 11:17 |
| aquatix | morning all | 11:18 |
| lbt | morning | 11:18 |
| Stskeeps | don't you just hate how the x in the corner actually closes an app? i often get that wrong :P | 11:19 |
| Stskeeps | i'm pondering to make the x the switcher menu | 11:19 |
| Stskeeps | as in the one when there's too many tasks | 11:20 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: looking good. Can't you just chop up wazd's mockup to get the various elements you need? | 11:39 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: probably | 11:39 |
| Stskeeps | but we need to do some other things as well too so | 11:40 |
| Meiz_webirk | Stskeeps: is the X button for top corner available by marquee-plugins? | 11:41 |
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| Stskeeps | Meiz_webirk: im not sure really, i can't get it to show anything | 11:52 |
| Stskeeps | Meiz_webirk: how does it work in UME? | 11:52 |
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| Meiz_webirk | Stskeeps: it didn't work fo mee too, but here ae the original UME conffiles (from /etc/hildon-desktop/) http://trac.tspre.org/meiz/marquee/ume-conffiles.tar.gz | 11:54 |
| Stskeeps | *nod* | 11:54 |
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| mavhc | interesting than on a mouse driven device corners and edges are easy targets, but on touchscreen they can be much harder to hit | 11:56 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, true | 11:57 |
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| mavhc | why is everyone ditching the sidebar? it makes the aspect ratio of a full screen video approx the same as a windowed one | 11:57 |
| Stskeeps | mavhc: web browsing probably | 11:58 |
| mavhc | suppose if browsing becomes less painful I'd use it more | 11:58 |
| Stskeeps | i understood after webkit eal that browsing could be quite less painful | 11:59 |
| konttori_ | well, also, considering that the left bar is total waste of space to begin with. | 11:59 |
| konttori_ | it's like windows would have the start menu open all the time on your desktop | 11:59 |
| mavhc | it's a task switcher, not a start menu | 11:59 |
| konttori_ | it serves both purposes | 12:00 |
| Stskeeps | konttori_: we're experimenting a bit in mer these days: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-hmm.png , - think we safely can make some of the icons bigger though :P | 12:00 |
| konttori_ | Left bar might make it easier to start / switch an app, but considering the time to do those vs. using the app, it's obvious that the left bar takes proportionally too much space vs the usefullness of it. | 12:00 |
| konttori_ | those top icons look just nicely usable as they are | 12:01 |
| konttori_ | imho | 12:01 |
| konttori_ | and looking good (except the icons, that look still a bit hackish) | 12:01 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, they are :P | 12:01 |
| * Stskeeps is waiting for wazd to show up to bring artwork ;) | 12:01 | |
| * konttori_ is working atm on parts of theme maker that will sadly not make it to public until some more details of the UI are published. | 12:02 | |
| konttori_ | sniff. | 12:02 |
| mavhc | so that top bar is the same height as the top bar on maemo, and it does the task switching too? | 12:03 |
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| Stskeeps | the top bar on this screenshot is 52 pixels and does task switching, status bar, app launcher and titlebar menu | 12:04 |
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| Meiz_webirk | Stskeeps: could you upload the .conf files you used for that configuration (~/.osso/hildon-desktop/?) | 12:07 |
| Stskeeps | Meiz_webirk: not yet sorry, it is based on hildon desktop not yet in repository | 12:07 |
| Stskeeps | i'm just pondering if to make the right-most X into http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-dropdownapps.png | 12:07 |
| Meiz_webirk | ok | 12:07 |
| Stskeeps | you might have to click twice to close but you avoid accidential closures :P | 12:07 |
| Meiz_webirk | k | 12:07 |
| Meiz_webirk | i was having toubles with statusbar integration | 12:07 |
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| mavhc | the unlimited resources solution would be to let you unclose the app if you accidentally closed it | 12:09 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah :P | 12:09 |
| thopiekar | morning | 12:09 |
| mavhc | the hack would be to not close it right away, give the user 10 second to unclose, but that's probably more annoying | 12:09 |
| Stskeeps | on the other hand, it could be useful that X was actually not a direct message to the window, but to the app switcher so if the app switcher failed to close it, it would kill it (after asking you) | 12:10 |
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| mavhc | if every app has perfect autosave it wouldn't matter either | 12:11 |
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| jerhum | hello | 12:12 |
| mavhc | I think the Xs are small enough that you can't hit them accidentally often enough | 12:12 |
| Stskeeps | mm true | 12:13 |
| mavhc | I suppose if you get rid of the sidebar apps can add their own sidebar in the space | 12:14 |
| jerhum | i follow instructions for install kde4 on my nokia n810 ( http://techbase.kde.org/Projects/Maemo/KDE4_on_n810 ) but i've got problem with the repository deb http://qt4.garage.maemo.org/ diablo extras (404 error) | 12:15 |
| mavhc | or preferably on the right hand side if there's no scroll bar | 12:16 |
| Stskeeps | i really ponder how difficult it is to implement multiple home screens | 12:16 |
| qwerty12_N800 | switchdesktop on itt | 12:17 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 12:17 |
| Stskeeps | but without having to reload HD | 12:17 |
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| aquatix | hmm, workspaces on your NIT | 12:17 |
| mavhc | are you still having all the applets loaded within the HD task? | 12:17 |
| rzr | do you know about works on maemo5 + nokia 770 ? | 12:18 |
| Stskeeps | well currently that is the old h-d desktop :/ new h-d desktop uses clutter extensively | 12:18 |
| Stskeeps | rzr: mm, since mer even has trouble on 770.. | 12:19 |
| rzr | hi Stskeeps | 12:19 |
| rzr | btw just curious is nokia directly involved in mer ? | 12:20 |
| Stskeeps | nop, it's a community project | 12:20 |
| Stskeeps | but they are supporting in different ways | 12:20 |
| Stskeeps | helped a lot to get a h-d matching the fremantle libs for instance | 12:22 |
| Stskeeps | and the code drops | 12:22 |
| mavhc | so which HD are we talking about for mer? | 12:22 |
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| jerhum | who knows if deb http://qt4.garage.maemo.org/ diablo extras has moved ? | 12:23 |
| Stskeeps | mavhc: there's one that's the old desktop (diablo like) and there's the fremantle desktop (which has seperated hildon-home and hildon-desktop, and uses clutter extensively) | 12:23 |
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| rzr | ok | 12:24 |
| suihkulokki | Stskeeps: so you have both h-d versions now in mer? | 12:24 |
| Stskeeps | suihkulokki: not the clutter one, just the one delivered in pre-alpha(2) | 12:25 |
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| Stskeeps | there would be some libhildondesktop clash too afaik so | 12:25 |
| suihkulokki | and still basing on top of gtk+ built with #MAEMO_CHANGES + | 12:26 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 12:26 |
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| * suihkulokki rumbles in the distance | 12:27 | |
| mavhc | and do you plan to switch to the new one? | 12:27 |
| Stskeeps | mavhc: well it would be a bit contrary to the fact that we can't have proper clutter on n8x0.. | 12:28 |
| mavhc | so no | 12:28 |
| Stskeeps | (yet) | 12:28 |
| lcuk | (ever) but in your own words: "who the fuck needs opengl" | 12:29 |
| thopiekar | lcuk: gamers^^ | 12:29 |
| thopiekar | and compiz :P | 12:30 |
| lcuk | they will have the n900 :) | 12:30 |
| lcuk | or will carry around their desktop | 12:30 |
| lcuk | "look, i can play warcraft on the bus" | 12:30 |
| * Stskeeps still wants that touch book thing | 12:30 | |
| lcuk | looks nice tbh | 12:31 |
| aquatix | Stskeeps: touchbook? | 12:31 |
| aquatix | Stskeeps: that's rather nice | 12:31 |
| mavhc | better than augmented reality: "Look, I can play warcraft with this bus" | 12:31 |
| aquatix | Stskeeps: Touch book with Mer \o/ | 12:32 |
| Stskeeps | aquatix: http://i.gizmodo.com/5162584/first-hands-on-touch-book-is-part+netbook-part+tablet | 12:32 |
| aquatix | yep | 12:32 |
| lcuk | actually, thats like dividing by zero - warcraft users NEVER travel the bus :D | 12:32 |
| aquatix | i first only read "touch thing" in your sentence | 12:32 |
| mavhc | I'm still not sure how online gamers earn money to pay for the online gaming they do for 18 hours a day | 12:32 |
| konttori_ | lcuk: the biggest improvement of opengl on every operation that you could do on software is sub pixel accuracy. | 12:32 |
| konttori_ | not that big a thing perhaps on such high dpi devices as maemo has, but still. Anyway, of course, opengl also offers so much more that you cannot do on software at all | 12:33 |
| Stskeeps | mavhc: welfare.. | 12:33 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:33 |
| Stskeeps | or CC scams, probably | 12:34 |
| lcuk | konttori_, agreed in principle | 12:34 |
| * konttori_ has just finished adding a nifty thing in theme maker and is having quite a kick on seeing that working on the device. | 12:35 | |
| Jaffa | konttori_: N810? | 12:36 |
| konttori_ | Stskeeps: the touch book device looks really nice (one you linked to ) | 12:36 |
| * lcuk laughs | 12:36 | |
| konttori_ | Jaffa: the other device. | 12:37 |
| Stskeeps | konttori_: it's basically a portable beagleboard, so i want. :P | 12:37 |
| Jaffa | konttori_: oh, N800? ;-) | 12:37 |
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| konttori_ | Jaffa: lol | 12:37 |
| lcuk | nahhh jaffa, 770 | 12:37 |
| * Jaffa wants a touchbook; but will believe it when I see it. | 12:37 | |
| Jaffa | "believe" is a strong word; hold out hope :) | 12:37 |
| * Jaffa wants a bigger screened tablet for around the house | 12:37 | |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: since there's actual schematics and it's a guy who made tangible products before, i tend to believe it :P | 12:38 |
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| lcuk | jaffa, my lenovo x41 does that job :) | 12:38 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: I believe it; just want it to be good (will reserve judgement until then) and it's shipping to the UK | 12:39 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: indeed, been looking at cheap old tablet PCs on ebay | 12:39 |
| * lcuk is just doing quantum teleportation of sketches and photos | 12:39 | |
| Jaffa | But I'm about to lay down a wad of cash on a new fitted study (sold the sofa bed on ebay, and the current office furniture's looking hopeful) so it'd have to be a dirt cheap tablet for knocking around with. | 12:40 |
| lcuk | i got this one from ebay for £280 i got to view it first | 12:40 |
| * konttori_ is really interested in seeing that will there actually be a significant device base spawning from the existence of beagleboard. The idea from TI to create it was a really good one. But intel with the atom and nvidia with the atom + nvidia integrated, sounds just about the perfect processor for touch book type of devices. | 12:41 | |
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| konttori_ | as, the power consuption of the display is so high on bigger display sizes, that the advantage of omap 3 vs. the lowest version of atom is not that big anymore. especially against underclocked atoms | 12:42 |
| * lcuk underclocks his x41 | 12:42 | |
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| lcuk | 800mhz has so much headroom! | 12:42 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-xmenu.png , x is grossly misplaced, but.. | 12:43 |
| lcuk | konttori_, you mention doin theme maker in ogl on the device - how about your ukmp, hows that looking or have you not considered converting yet | 12:46 |
| konttori_ | lcuk: I haven't been working on ukmp for fremantle at all | 12:47 |
| konttori_ | the diablo version (on my development branch) is much better now though. | 12:48 |
| konttori_ | I could publish that. | 12:48 |
| lcuk | you mustv had some thoughts of your own though: what would you like to do with it that you cannot now | 12:48 |
| konttori_ | Also, one of the reasons for postponing the work on ukmp is that I have wanted to have tracker in place before doing anything to ukmp. | 12:48 |
| konttori_ | also, I could seriously see myself as writing that now with either qgraphicsview or with clutter. | 12:49 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: I like that idea; especially if instead of an "X" it becomes some other symbol (one for wazd perhaps) | 12:49 |
| Stskeeps | FAQ: "Where did my X go?" | 12:50 |
| lcuk | "she is currently located in your best friends bed" | 12:50 |
| Jaffa | Hmm, would keeping it as "X" be that bad? My initial thought was yes, but perhaps not. | 12:50 |
| Stskeeps | just as long as it's not the Window Mobile "x" | 12:51 |
| Stskeeps | +s | 12:51 |
| lcuk | konttori_, is there python bindings for either clutter or qt now then, or have you changed language/ | 12:52 |
| konttori_ | lcuk: well, most of those ideas about what I could do with opengl revolve around moving items on the view, rotating them on the fly and doing fancy transitions between views. | 12:52 |
| konttori_ | clutter has python bindings. | 12:52 |
| lcuk | i thought rotation was os level so the app doesnt need to play with that? | 12:53 |
| konttori_ | my preferred language still remains python (or javascript), otoh, I have done some c++ coding on qt now as well. | 12:53 |
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| lcuk | are the clutter bindings cross platform? | 12:53 |
| konttori_ | vala is my preferred language if I needed to write something to serve as a daemon type component on the platform | 12:53 |
| konttori_ | lcuk: afaik they are | 12:54 |
| lcuk | cool | 12:54 |
| konttori_ | so, you can write the app on your desktop with clutter on python and then just copy the python files to the device and it will just work, | 12:54 |
| lcuk | i thought vala was usable to make gtk objective as well | 12:54 |
| * lcuk would prefer to write the other way round | 12:54 | |
| konttori_ | sure. it's really nice for any glib based stuff really | 12:54 |
| lcuk | theres nothing worse than getting to a device and finding out its too fat | 12:55 |
| konttori_ | I just happen to believe that UIs should be written on script / interpreted languages. | 12:55 |
| konttori_ | as they will be so much better in handling error situations than compiled languages. | 12:55 |
| lcuk | with good libraries behind the glue code doesnt have to be rapid :) | 12:55 |
| Stskeeps | i might believe that for higher end devices but after seeing openmoko .. | 12:55 |
| konttori_ | Stskeeps: what about openmoko? | 12:56 |
| * konttori_ doesn't keep openmoko under his radar. | 12:56 | |
| lcuk | konttori_, i think the experience is somewhat underwhelming | 12:57 |
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| lcuk | mornin yerga | 12:58 |
| Stskeeps | konttori_: well, afaik their UI is mostly written in python.. and it is somewhat same specs as a n8x0, and it was deadly slow (i'm a python fan but sometimes it is not feasible to run it) | 12:58 |
| yerga | morning | 12:58 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, it might be in python but its calling into gtk stuffs | 12:58 |
| lcuk | python isnt so bad at specific library wrangling | 12:58 |
| lcuk | however i was looking at some pybookreader thing - its rendering is as quick as it can be and autoscrolls (with tearing) but loading a book takes 20x longer than required | 12:59 |
| konttori_ | lcuk: It would be so great to have psyco running on arm | 13:00 |
| * konttori_ tested it on i386 a few times and just two lines of code make python so much faster for any in-pythong calculations. | 13:00 | |
| lcuk | whats missing from it that it doesnt work | 13:01 |
| konttori_ | lcuk: it is a form of JIT and would need to be re-written to do it for arm | 13:01 |
| konttori_ | a lot of work really | 13:02 |
| lcuk | has anyone tried? its just in c from what i can see | 13:02 |
| konttori_ | and, usually the tight loops are anyway usually using c components in python apps | 13:02 |
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| lcuk | lol replace python and c with basic and asm and we couldv time travelled 20 years in the past! | 13:04 |
| konttori_ | lcuk: there has been discussion, but afaik, no-one has even dared to start. | 13:05 |
| konttori_ | lol | 13:05 |
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| lcuk | konttori_, have you seen the new mediabox media centre thing? looks very swish and works well on device | 13:07 |
| konttori_ | lcuk: I haven't tried it yet | 13:07 |
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| konttori_ | lcuk: that was python app, right? | 13:08 |
| lcuk | yeah | 13:08 |
| lopz | hola | 13:08 |
| konttori_ | what libs does it need? | 13:08 |
| * konttori_ has wicked ideas of where to test it. | 13:08 | |
| lcuk | http://mediabox.garage.maemo.org/ | 13:09 |
| konttori_ | ah. needs mplayer. | 13:09 |
| lcuk | mafw is prefered i gather (indirect mplayer) | 13:10 |
| lcuk | just try it, i was surprised at how nicely it worked | 13:10 |
| konttori_ | I will try it | 13:10 |
| lcuk | they even offer direct folder access to media instead of a big library :P | 13:11 |
| konttori_ | is that good? | 13:11 |
| konttori_ | ;) | 13:11 |
| lcuk | depending on usage and how often you change media disks and how your mind is configured, hell yeah! | 13:12 |
| lcuk | nothing worse than firing up canola and it not getting media because its not scanned it yet | 13:12 |
| roope | gud moarning. | 13:12 |
| konttori_ | lcuk: well, tracker should take care of the file changes quite nicely in the future | 13:12 |
| konttori_ | roope: morning | 13:12 |
| konttori_ | roope: I just got theme maker to produce themes for fremantle. | 13:13 |
| konttori_ | and made a very nice background image | 13:13 |
| roope | nothing better than a nice sunny march sunday morning. | 13:13 |
| roope | konttori: sounds cool, hmm. | 13:13 |
| * lcuk looks to windwo and sees fog | 13:13 | |
| roope | is there something that... are there missing pieces still? | 13:13 |
| lcuk | konttori_, are these themes still gtk at their core or are they clutter textures | 13:13 |
| konttori_ | lcuk: themes are pretty much the same as before. | 13:14 |
| roope | or some parts of the ui you can't theme? | 13:14 |
| konttori_ | just a bit of new added stuff on top of the old stuff | 13:14 |
| lcuk | cool, so the themes for fremantle should translate directly back to normal gtk? | 13:14 |
| konttori_ | roope: well, I haven't finished theming of the colors yet completely, but I'll take a look at that next. | 13:14 |
| konttori_ | but, as dar as I know, all the assets are now in place on the template side. | 13:15 |
| roope | i.e. parts of the ui that arem't in the akpha? | 13:15 |
| konttori_ | roope: I have the full stuff on my dev. | 13:15 |
| konttori_ | I mean dev env of theme maker | 13:15 |
| konttori_ | so, I cannot publish it until I clean up the unnecessary stuff from it. | 13:16 |
| roope | yeah. | 13:16 |
| konttori_ | but, I want to make the full version before crippling it | 13:16 |
| roope | don't launch it from thememaker yet. :) | 13:16 |
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| konttori_ | as, also, I don't know when they will publish the missing pieces. perhaps for the beta release? | 13:17 |
| jerhum | i have installed kde4 on n810 but the system reboot after have launch plasma :s | 13:18 |
| roope | yes, for the beta. | 13:18 |
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| roope | so leave those parts outside before the beta. | 13:19 |
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| konttori_ | roope: yeah, well, I might just as well wait until beta to publish theme maker | 13:21 |
| konttori_ | I mean, to me, it makes little sense to publish it before you can actually use the results. | 13:21 |
| roope | yeah, that's true. | 13:21 |
| roope | you need to see the status etc. to see what you're doing. | 13:22 |
| Macer | crap.. it has been raining forever here | 13:25 |
| lcuk | macer, its murky and yucky here too | 13:26 |
| lcuk | roope, could you share the sun please | 13:26 |
| Myrtti | it's discustingly sunny here | 13:26 |
| lcuk | apt-get install sunshine | 13:26 |
| Macer | haha | 13:27 |
| Macer | they are trying to run a civilian school like westpoint for civilians to force people into public service | 13:27 |
| Macer | :) | 13:27 |
| * konttori_ just tested youamp on fremantle. Kudos to python - worked just by installing it from diablo repository. | 13:28 | |
| Macer | the problem with public service is that you need to be a complete dorkus to get a job.. you can have nothing on your record and you must be an absolutely perfect citizen.. which is like 1% of the population | 13:28 |
| * konttori_ needs apps to test that theming works also in 'legacy' applications. | 13:28 | |
| konttori_ | youamp developer should switch to use tracker as the backend instead of scanning the fs manually. | 13:29 |
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| lbt | Stskeeps: in general do you want maemo versions od packages or not? I'm thinking Qt... | 13:32 |
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| Stskeeps | lbt: with regards to Qt, yes, maemo extensions should be enabled | 13:32 |
| Stskeeps | i compiled it once but wasn't sure if it was with hildonizing things | 13:32 |
| lbt | yep that's what I was thinking... | 13:33 |
| lbt | are you keeping the nokia free stuff and trying to write stuff to replace their blobs | 13:33 |
| lbt | or are you trying to replicate their work on top of Ubuntu | 13:34 |
| Stskeeps | we're actually trying to rebase the maemo platform on top of ubuntu, yeah - we're keeping as close to maemo as we can when it makes sense | 13:34 |
| Stskeeps | which means we have maemo gtk for instance | 13:34 |
| lbt | yep - makes sense | 13:35 |
| Stskeeps | a ubuntu with hildon on top and maemo gtk and the other things is actually quite powerful | 13:35 |
| Stskeeps | i mean, apt-get install abiword :> | 13:35 |
| lbt | and hopefully makes it easier... | 13:35 |
| lbt | I'll start with qt45-4.5.0~rc1maemo3 | 13:36 |
| lbt | baby steps ;) | 13:36 |
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| * lcuk lets lbt pick something up from the toy aisle for behaving whilst shopping | 13:39 | |
| * konttori_ likes this benchmark tool: http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/gp4/benchmark.php?test=all&lang=javascript&lang2=psyco&box=1 | 13:39 | |
| lbt | squirty gun | 13:39 |
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| konttori_ | easy to compare languages | 13:39 |
| lcuk | heh, jake always goes for cars. ALWAYS | 13:39 |
| lbt | I've got a full size car - still a toy though ;) | 13:40 |
| konttori_ | java looks really fast on those tests (well, not a big surprise considering how much it's been developed in the past decade) | 13:40 |
| lcuk | we have a complete set of practically every matchbox car in existance and have now moved onto cars cars | 13:40 |
| Macer | hm | 13:40 |
| Macer | trying to add my gmail acct to zimbra as an external imap | 13:40 |
| lbt | err, when I do fullscreen in my Mer VM - how do I get out? | 13:43 |
| lbt | ah - F6 - of course | 13:43 |
| lbt | forgot about the hw = fn-key thing :) | 13:43 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: I still need to play with an auto-hildonising LD_PRELOAD hack. Initial tests were promising, but I've not produced any code against Gtk yet. | 13:44 |
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| * lcuk goes n plays portal for a bit | 13:58 | |
| *** GAN800 changes topic to "Welcome to #maemo | http://maemo.org | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog" | 13:59 | |
| Stskeeps | morning GAN800 | 14:00 |
| GAN800 | Howdy | 14:04 |
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| lcuk810 | the cake is a lie | 14:07 |
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| GAN800 | Does the Fremantle h-a-m have the category patches? | 14:10 |
| Stskeeps | was it the catpo stuff | 14:10 |
| Stskeeps | ? | 14:10 |
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| GAN800 | Stskeeps, yeah, the translations and the associated category view stuff. | 14:24 |
| Stskeeps | there's a catpo/ folder at least | 14:25 |
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| slonopotamus | strange | 14:27 |
| Stskeeps | mm? | 14:27 |
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| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, i patched cx3110x with your patch. wpa_supplicant happily works. but maemo nm doesn't. | 14:28 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, from dmesg: | 14:28 |
| slonopotamus | [ 2867.390625] cx3110x: associated to 00:15:e9:e3:39:01 (bcn 100 msec, DTIM 3) | 14:29 |
| slonopotamus | [ 2867.414062] cx3110x: shut down softmac. | 14:29 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: hmm. | 14:29 |
| slonopotamus | so it associates and immediately shuts down | 14:29 |
| Stskeeps | does my .ko work? | 14:29 |
| slonopotamus | mhm. haven't tried. | 14:30 |
| Stskeeps | just test | 14:30 |
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| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, how i can unpack deb? | 14:31 |
| Stskeeps | dpkg-deb -x foo directory | 14:31 |
| Stskeeps | or ar x, i think | 14:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | konttori_, there's little point in anybody using Tracker until it's actually available. . . . | 14:33 |
| slonopotamus | brb | 14:33 |
| Stskeeps | it's availiable in fremantle afaik :P | 14:34 |
| lcuk | omg its hailstoning! | 14:34 |
| konttori_ | GeneralAntilles: true enough | 14:34 |
| konttori_ | anyway, afaik: the tracker that we have in fremantle alpha was the buggiest version ever. | 14:34 |
| konttori_ | :( | 14:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just like there's little point in people using the new categories until Nokia gets its shit together and ships them. . . . :[ | 14:34 |
| konttori_ | indeed. | 14:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | In the mean time, let's all look at the list of lies: https://bugs.maemo.org/buglist.cgi?target_milestone=4.1%2B | 14:37 |
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| lcuk | mmmm tracy lemon n lime drizzle cake is delicious | 14:38 |
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| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, nope, yours doesn't work either | 14:39 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: hmmm. | 14:40 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, i do 1) go offline 2) rmmod 3) insmod 4) wlan-cal 5) go online | 14:41 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, only maemo module connects at step 5. both mine and yours do not | 14:42 |
| Stskeeps | hmm | 14:42 |
| Stskeeps | not sure | 14:43 |
| slonopotamus | oh my. do you understand what that means? i have wifi in gentoo! | 14:45 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, i know, except NM doesnt work :) | 14:45 |
| slonopotamus | err | 14:46 |
| slonopotamus | when i said 'nm' i didn't mean NM | 14:46 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 14:46 |
| slonopotamus | i meant maemo tray thing | 14:46 |
| slonopotamus | dunno how it is called | 14:46 |
| Stskeeps | icd | 14:49 |
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| Meizirkki | GRR!!! | 14:59 |
| Meizirkki | apt-get crashes X in Mer | 14:59 |
| Meizirkki | Reading package lists... 0% | 15:00 |
| Meizirkki | and freeze | 15:00 |
| Stskeeps | swap enabled? | 15:00 |
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| Meizirkki | yes | 15:00 |
| Meizirkki | it happens even if i apt-get using chroot under diablo | 15:01 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 15:02 |
| Stskeeps | it might be a sideeffect of our mmap stuff i guess | 15:02 |
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| Meizirkki | ??? apt-cache show gdm says "Bus error" | 15:07 |
| Meizirkki | strange | 15:07 |
| Stskeeps | memory stuff prolly | 15:08 |
| Meizirkki | any ideas how to fix it? | 15:09 |
| Stskeeps | what apt version do you have? | 15:09 |
| Stskeeps | dpkg -l | 15:09 |
| Meizirkki | 0.7.20.2ubuntu1mer1 | 15:10 |
| Stskeeps | k | 15:10 |
| Meizirkki | there's a lot of "Buffer I/O error" messages in dmesg.. | 15:11 |
| Stskeeps | uh | 15:11 |
| Stskeeps | MMC errors? | 15:11 |
| Stskeeps | better not be the internal MMC | 15:11 |
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| Meizirkki | mmcblk0 | 15:12 |
| Stskeeps | did you install 48mhz or rotation kernel per chance? | 15:12 |
| Meizirkki | external card | 15:12 |
| Stskeeps | possible dead card then :/ | 15:12 |
| Meizirkki | i haven't made any changes yet, this is a fresh 0.9 tarball... | 15:12 |
| Meizirkki | hmm | 15:12 |
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| * Meizirkki re/installs mer | 15:15 | |
| Meizirkki | yeah, it's a dead card | 15:15 |
| Meizirkki | everything on that card is just an I/O errors | 15:15 |
| Stskeeps | *nod* | 15:16 |
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| thopiekar | Stskeeps: maybe you are right to install all the devtools on mer.vmdk.. | 15:28 |
| Stskeeps | it could be useful | 15:28 |
| Stskeeps | it would mean you could have your app actually show up in the maemo environment | 15:29 |
| Stskeeps | try and see how eclipse looks :) | 15:29 |
| thopiekar | running mer.vm in a vm is bullshit.. vbox in my vm don't work and qemu is laggy.. | 15:29 |
| thux | hello, is there any command to remove bootmenu? or is flashing only way? | 15:29 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 15:29 |
| Stskeeps | thopiekar: just reflash initfs and --flash-only initfs | 15:29 |
| thopiekar | but I would need java for eclipse.. | 15:29 |
| Stskeeps | thopiekar: sure, we have ubuntu you know :P | 15:29 |
| Stskeeps | just install it :) | 15:29 |
| thopiekar | :P | 15:30 |
| thux | i had mer but it doesn't boot anymore | 15:30 |
| Stskeeps | er | 15:31 |
| joyrider | Hi, is there anyway to use networking over the provided usb cable ? | 15:31 |
| thopiekar | Stskeeps: kk I will try it... but first of all I would need a bigger virtual hdd... (dd if=/dev/hda of=/dev/hdb) | 15:31 |
| Stskeeps | thux: just reflash initfs and --flash-only initfs | 15:31 |
| thopiekar | Stskeeps: maybe around 25GB | 15:32 |
| thux | Stskeeps: ok thanks | 15:32 |
| Stskeeps | thopiekar: true | 15:32 |
| Stskeeps | thopiekar: shouldn't be too difficult though | 15:32 |
| thopiekar | :) 25GB would be enough for the next releases of mer :P | 15:33 |
| thux | i broke mer with dist-upgrade despite i only got stock repositories | 15:33 |
| Stskeeps | thux: there was a notice on the jaiku.com/channel/mer about hildon-desktop breaking upgrade right now :) | 15:34 |
| Stskeeps | we're working on new UI so, http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-xmenu.png | 15:34 |
| thux | i should read jaiku :) | 15:34 |
| Myrtti | jaiku ♥ | 15:35 |
| thopiekar | Stskeeps: don't show him the crap.. show him our goal.. | 15:35 |
| thopiekar | :) | 15:35 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 15:35 |
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| thopiekar | Stskeeps: is the new UI breaking vm too? | 15:36 |
| lcuk | this feels strange as feck! im using x11vnc so that i can type input directly from my pc keyboard into my tablet. but because of xv i cannot see the vnc screen, its just black | 15:37 |
| Stskeeps | thopiekar: yeah, so don't dist-upgrade | 15:37 |
| thopiekar | ;| | 15:37 |
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| thopiekar | Stskeeps: do you know something about "kernel-star"?.. | 15:38 |
| thopiekar | my NAS is using it.. | 15:39 |
| Stskeeps | thopiekar: no sorry | 15:39 |
| thopiekar | * me is interested in using mer as a server on his nas | 15:39 |
| thopiekar | :( | 15:39 |
| Stskeeps | hehe, just use ubuntu jaunty armel instead | 15:39 |
| thopiekar | http://www.multicase.de/en/products/72/ns348s.html | 15:40 |
| thopiekar | is it really so easy to switch between root-systems? | 15:41 |
| thopiekar | even os'es | 15:42 |
| Stskeeps | depends how hackable your NAS is | 15:44 |
| thopiekar | hmm | 15:44 |
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| Stskeeps | thopiekar: http://tinyhack.com/2008/08/25/tips-for-agestar-ncb3ast/#more-57 | 15:46 |
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| thopiekar | Stskeeps: thanks.. even the support email from multicase wasn't so informative.. | 15:50 |
| * thopiekar loves Stskeeps :P | 15:54 | |
| ShadowJK | lcuk, there's this thing called x2vnc, iirc, which just does the input thing. You move pointe off of the edge of your screen and it appears on the other computer's screen | 15:54 |
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| Macer | wow | 15:55 |
| Macer | this rain sucks | 15:55 |
| Macer | heh | 15:55 |
| johnx | luckily it's not here yet :) | 15:56 |
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| Stskeeps | morning johnx | 15:56 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: jp.dk | 15:56 |
| Stskeeps | er.. | 15:56 |
| Macer | johnx: it's like a damn typhoon here | 15:56 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-xmenu.png | 15:56 |
| lcuk | ShadowJK, yeah it might not work well in windows tho :D its only to get some input into liqbase before i put the alternative method in | 15:56 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hi johnx | 15:56 |
| lcuk | mornin johnx | 15:57 |
| johnx | hey qwerty12_N800, Stskeeps | 15:57 |
| johnx | hey lcuk | 15:57 |
| Macer | Stskeeps: i have a much better box running esxi .. you were right. the io was horrible on the shuttle | 15:57 |
| johnx | I think the freenode server in Asia is AWOL... | 15:57 |
| Macer | so if you guys need something. you can have a vm if you'd like.. it should run pretty good | 15:57 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, looking nice :) | 15:58 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: it's a new concept for the X menu .. quick switch in top bar and rest of apps in the magic X | 15:58 |
| johnx | that leaves a pleasant amount of space for tasks/statusbar icons | 15:58 |
| Stskeeps | where you can also close apps | 15:58 |
| Macer | looks like the maemo menu | 15:58 |
| Stskeeps | it is | 15:59 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: i just wonder if apps running should be first or statusbar | 15:59 |
| Stskeeps | so you have the apps running just next to x which it overflows into | 15:59 |
| johnx | yeah, that seems reasonable | 16:00 |
| johnx | I think one way or another they should stay together | 16:00 |
| Macer | hope zimbra fixed some of its problems with this new release | 16:00 |
| Macer | zimbra is great for the most part.. but some of the things it does wrong are very irritating | 16:01 |
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| Stskeeps | but it's good to know wazd's prototypes are actually in reach | 16:06 |
| Stskeeps | mockups | 16:06 |
| johnx | yeah, and is wazd around? | 16:06 |
| Stskeeps | not yet | 16:07 |
| Stskeeps | rst said something about long weekend | 16:07 |
| johnx | also, random question: Have you tried running at 640x480 to see if this 'resolution independence' thing is really automagic? | 16:07 |
| RST38h | moo all | 16:07 |
| johnx | m00f RST38h | 16:07 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: no, not yet, but it can be made so :P | 16:07 |
| RST38h | how are things? | 16:07 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: i actually understand the resolution stuff now so | 16:08 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, the layout stuff? | 16:08 |
| johnx | RST38h, a little hectic ... | 16:08 |
| Stskeeps | well just how the panels and stuff work | 16:08 |
| Stskeeps | and why i would want to learn Qt instea | 16:08 |
| Stskeeps | d | 16:08 |
| johnx | ahaha | 16:08 |
| RST38h | heh, how familiar... | 16:08 |
| johnx | maybe we should just start this project over and work on fixing qtopia/opie :) | 16:09 |
| * johnx ducks | 16:09 | |
| Stskeeps | johnx: funny fact - themes only contain templates for task button 1 2 and 3.. | 16:10 |
| RST38h | please dont =) | 16:10 |
| RST38h | qtopia is nokia now, too | 16:10 |
| johnx | RST38h, twm/xlib is where it's at? | 16:10 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: and given up on i guess | 16:10 |
| RST38h | sts: dont be so fast, you never know when they decide to look at the attic | 16:11 |
| johnx | I assume qt is important, but qtopia seems like a deadend in its current state | 16:12 |
| lbt | qtopia has been EOLed | 16:12 |
| lbt | as of Qt 4.5 | 16:12 |
| johnx | at least in terms of lining up with Nokia's current goals | 16:12 |
| johnx | damn, my zaurus got wet out in the rain the other day and now it's acting sketchy :/ | 16:13 |
| lbt | airing cupboard | 16:13 |
| * RST38h considers clutter a deadend, yet... | 16:13 | |
| johnx | RST38h, but you're not the developer/maintainer of clutter :) | 16:14 |
| johnx | turns out you don't get to make those decisions ... | 16:14 |
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| RST38h | not developing qtopia either | 16:14 |
| johnx | right, but Nokia is/was | 16:14 |
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| RST38h | johnx: its not a decision, its, let us say, a thought out opinion :) | 16:15 |
| johnx | your well reasoned opinion is duly noted | 16:16 |
| johnx | and I agree to a certain extent given the current usage ... | 16:16 |
| RST38h | oh it is the same problem as with symbian | 16:16 |
| RST38h | I know you hate me for saying this but it is another case of aspergers sufferers creating an api | 16:17 |
| RST38h | ok, replace with "narrow minded nerds" if you wish :) | 16:18 |
| johnx | see, that's a lot more descriptive, isn't it :) | 16:18 |
| RST38h | yea, but does not express the clonical aspect :) | 16:19 |
| johnx | clonical? | 16:19 |
| johnx | :P | 16:19 |
| RST38h | clinical | 16:19 |
| * RST38h is typing on a phone | 16:19 | |
| johnx | your articulate argumentation is unsurpassed :D | 16:19 |
| johnx | I was hoping it was 'clownical' actually | 16:20 |
| RST38h | =) | 16:20 |
| johnx | but actually it turns out that not everyone's design mistakes are the result of aspergers, and not everyone with aspergers makes those design mistakes... | 16:21 |
| johnx | it just makes your argument inflammatory and takes away from your point... | 16:21 |
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| RST38h | johnx: there are no sane people, just ones awaiting diagnosis | 16:22 |
| johnx | yeah, but leave the diagnosis to the people with PhDs :) | 16:23 |
| * RST38h always flames towards a certain point though | 16:23 | |
| johnx | yeah, but the trick is to not have people get caught up in the irrelevant details :P | 16:23 |
| RST38h | johnx: do read more on the subject - it is way more fascinating than simple normal/mad distinction | 16:24 |
| johnx | I know a fair amount on the subject, but unless I'm mistaken you're not actually a medical doctor | 16:25 |
| johnx | fair amount for a lay person I should say | 16:25 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: i wonder however what on earth kind of themeing could be done.. i mean, what is left to theme? dialogs? marquee? | 16:25 |
| johnx | heh :) | 16:26 |
| johnx | well, that's a good and bad thing I guess | 16:26 |
| johnx | icons, gtk widgets | 16:26 |
| lcuk | make osso_calculator themable :P | 16:26 |
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| Stskeeps | it wouldn't be easy to theme LCARS.. :P | 16:27 |
| lcuk | lcars is a state of mind, only to be activated in the vicinity of a trek convention :D | 16:27 |
| johnx | it wouldn't be *too* bad | 16:27 |
| johnx | you could have end caps for the top bar that were rounded off, and a repeating or stretched pixmap for the middle | 16:28 |
| johnx | the icons and gtk controls are the big part | 16:29 |
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| johnx | if anyone remembers the magna doodle (or failing that etch a sketch), just picture that and click this link: http://www.engadget.com/2009/03/06/bebook-2-e-reader-revealed-and-in-the-wild-at-cebit-2009/ | 16:31 |
| johnx | though actually I'd love an e-ink tablet | 16:32 |
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| johnx | ah, I think I might have killed my zaurus' battery :/ | 16:47 |
| aquatix | ouch | 16:47 |
| johnx | ~4 years is a good run though | 16:47 |
| infobot | johnx: okay | 16:47 |
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| johnx | infobot, 4 years | 16:48 |
| infobot | somebody said 4 years was a good run though | 16:48 |
| aquatix | :) | 16:48 |
| johnx | I think that's fitting :) | 16:48 |
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| johnx | if a li-ion battery is putting out 2.7v, that's not a good sign, right? | 16:51 |
| * qwerty12_N800 grimaces at "Windows Update, Error Reporting & Customer Experience Improvement Program" on a WinMo phone... | 16:54 | |
| johnx | sounds like one step short of RMA... | 16:55 |
| ShadowJK | johnx, it's a sign of danger :) | 16:55 |
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| ShadowJK | How long has it been that way? | 16:56 |
| johnx | ah, one thing where the zaurus wins over the nokia tablets: built-in diagnostics menu | 16:56 |
| johnx | ShadowJK, I couple days. I don't think it's able to charge | 16:56 |
| ShadowJK | You'd want to do it very very slowly on a fireproof surface | 16:57 |
| johnx | sooo, not in my zaurus? | 16:57 |
| ShadowJK | right | 16:57 |
| * johnx looks at charging zaurus, pops battery, plays a funeral dirge for it | 16:57 | |
| * igagis uploaded new Maemo Theremin video: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yM7PohHunio | 16:58 | |
| johnx | drops to 2.6v when the charger's not plugged in | 16:58 |
| johnx | was probably 2.5v earlier | 16:58 |
| johnx | maybe even less | 16:58 |
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| ShadowJK | "If the cells have dwelled at 1.5V/cell and lower for a few days, however, a recharge should be avoided. Copper shunts may have formed inside the cells, leading a partial or total electrical short. The cell becomes unstable. Charging such a battery would cause excessive heat and safety could not be assured. " | 17:00 |
| johnx | 2.6v is a good distance from 1.5v... | 17:01 |
| deejoe | is it single-cell, though? | 17:01 |
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| ShadowJK | Yeah it probably is | 17:01 |
| johnx | I believe so. maximum charging voltage, connected to AC is supposed to be 4.2v | 17:02 |
| ShadowJK | 2.6 is still uncomfortably lower than the safety threshold of 3.2 :) | 17:02 |
| johnx | yeah, and the zaurus won't stay on reliably with it like this, also I let it try to charge all last night | 17:03 |
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| johnx | so either the charging circuit is done (which I kind of doubt) or the battery is | 17:03 |
| ShadowJK | or the charging circuit is refusing to charge it | 17:03 |
| johnx | it's trying | 17:03 |
| johnx | the service menu tells me "211" 2.7v on AC and drops to "206" 2.6v off AC | 17:04 |
| johnx | batteries or so freaking expensive :/ | 17:04 |
| ShadowJK | At one point Nokia was putting their BL-5C battery in almost every single phone model of theirs... Economies of scale, you can get original replacement battery for 10E :-) | 17:05 |
| johnx | the zaurus battery is not quite as popular, sadly :P | 17:06 |
| ShadowJK | I can see that :-) | 17:06 |
| ShadowJK | a quick search gives results at $70 :) | 17:06 |
| johnx | luckily I can use a bl11 or bl08 | 17:07 |
| johnx | thinking about going 3rd party, even though I know it's a gamble | 17:07 |
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| johnx | crisis averted, thank god for parts interchange :) | 17:11 |
| johnx | a bl06 works too :> | 17:11 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 17:12 |
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| johnx | well, now I have about $150 in batteries to buy when I have a chance...wheee... | 17:13 |
| aquatix | fun :/ | 17:13 |
| johnx | yeah, same as the cost of a used n800 (!) | 17:14 |
| johnx | ...or a lot of beer | 17:14 |
| derf | The had some "expert" on the Japanese econom on the radio here, talking about how price levels were higher over there... | 17:15 |
| derf | ...and he's like, "Yeah, $200 would basically get you one dinner at a not-too-expensive restaurant in Tokyo." | 17:15 |
| johnx | he didn't get very far outside shibuya station I think :) | 17:16 |
| derf | Suddenly makes me wish _I_ was an economics "expert". | 17:16 |
| johnx | on the one hand you could *easily* blow that much if you weren't paying attention, but $6-10 will also get you filled up on decent, hot food | 17:17 |
| derf | Maybe he meant for a family of twelve. | 17:17 |
| ShadowJK | How much do you need to get properly wasted? | 17:17 |
| johnx | ShadowJK, at home or a bar? | 17:17 |
| ShadowJK | bar | 17:17 |
| ShadowJK | and dropped off at home once you pass out | 17:18 |
| johnx | well, taxi's are steep no matter where you go :P | 17:18 |
| derf | Everyone takes the train. | 17:18 |
| johnx | but unless you live in a box under the tracks that's not getting you 'dropped off at home' :) | 17:18 |
| derf | Eh, close enough. | 17:19 |
| johnx | but, the magic phrase is 'nomi-hodai' (bottomless cup) | 17:19 |
| johnx | 20-30 minutes walk here :P | 17:19 |
| derf | The cold March air will do you good. | 17:19 |
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| johnx | yeah, it's aaaawesome | 17:19 |
| johnx | we had snow last week | 17:19 |
| udovdh | hmm | 17:19 |
| udovdh | my n810 has been in the window for over an hour | 17:19 |
| udovdh | running navit | 17:20 |
| udovdh | but the gps icon doesn't show a fix | 17:20 |
| johnx | udovdh, do you have agps installed? | 17:20 |
| udovdh | navit's fault? | 17:20 |
| udovdh | agps? | 17:20 |
| udovdh | which is? | 17:20 |
| udovdh | the n810 has one internal | 17:20 |
| ShadowJK | oh it helps getting a fix.. | 17:20 |
| ShadowJK | it's software | 17:20 |
| udovdh | ah, interesting | 17:20 |
| udovdh | in maemo? | 17:20 |
| ShadowJK | yeah | 17:20 |
| johnx | agps-ui to name it exactly | 17:21 |
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| udovdh | http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/certified/pool/diablo/user/a/agps-ui/ ? | 17:21 |
| ShadowJK | maemo-mapper has a nice satellite details view | 17:21 |
| johnx | install that and you should be happier :) | 17:21 |
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| udovdh | aha. thanks, will have a look into it | 17:21 |
| RST38h | back | 17:21 |
| * RST38h moos evilly | 17:21 | |
| b-man | lol | 17:21 |
| * johnx makes a battery spacer... | 17:22 | |
| Stskeeps | b-man: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-xmenu.png | 17:22 |
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| b-man | nice :) | 17:23 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: i'm really pondering if it's possible to properly seperate layout and h-d :/ | 17:23 |
| Corsac | nice | 17:23 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, you mean to make the left panel optional? | 17:23 |
| AStorm | wtf? | 17:23 |
| AStorm | my n810 just spontaneously rebooted | 17:23 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: more like give freedom to have new layout | 17:24 |
| Stskeeps | s | 17:24 |
| guysoft42 | hey, i seem to begetting a segmentation fault after trying to add towel day to my gpe-calendar. now i carn't fix it because it segfaults on statup | 17:24 |
| guysoft42 | i basicly created a yearly event starting at 2001 yearly forever.. and it segfaults now | 17:24 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: cos so many things are hardwired in the code | 17:25 |
| AStorm | ooh, and it rebooted again | 17:25 |
| AStorm | wtf is happening with that diablo | 17:25 |
| Stskeeps | AStorm: i have had weird watchdog problems too | 17:25 |
| AStorm | it happens... spontaneously, sometimes | 17:25 |
| AStorm | and especially two times in a row | 17:26 |
| * b-man might have to disassemble his N800 today, the small sheild that protects the bluetooth became loose from that drop it had last week :( | 17:26 | |
| ShadowJK | Once my memory card had been dislodged | 17:26 |
| Stskeeps | AStorm: then again my n800 has taken some -serious- beatings | 17:26 |
| udovdh | how do I use agps? | 17:26 |
| AStorm | Stskeeps, heh, so did my n810 | 17:27 |
| b-man | Stskeeps: what did you do to yours? | 17:27 |
| AStorm | might be battery overheating hmm | 17:27 |
| udovdh | my n810 reboots after running airo-odumo-ng for a nigth or so | 17:27 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: it has certainly dropped quite often | 17:27 |
| b-man | ouch | 17:27 |
| Meizirkki | ~nuke nepomuk database build | 17:27 |
| * infobot prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at nepomuk database build ... B☢☢M! | 17:27 | |
| Stskeeps | but it is in one shape still | 17:28 |
| AStorm | or maybe my jffs2 or flash is calling its due ;P | 17:28 |
| b-man | i'll bet it has a lot of nicks and scraches | 17:28 |
| Meizirkki | KDE with Qt 4.5 feels like 5 times slower than the old one >* | 17:29 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, freedom? That's gnubie talk! but yeah, I guess it depends on that whole effort/effect ratio | 17:29 |
| johnx | ahaha...with this other battery I no longer have weird voltage drop-outs when turning on my compactflash wifi card | 17:30 |
| johnx | ShadowJK, good call on the battery | 17:31 |
| lcuk | Meizirkki, are you sure its not 4.5 times slower :P | 17:32 |
| Meizirkki | yes, it's at least 5 ;( | 17:32 |
| b-man | Stskeeps: how did you get cheese to work btw? i remember you doing it but i cannot recall how you did it | 17:33 |
| lcuk | aww poo thats not a good regression | 17:33 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: ran it | 17:33 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:33 |
| b-man | it doesn't work with me :P | 17:33 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: i think i'll go with the mer-ui style.. i mean, we have to be a step up from diablo | 17:34 |
| * Stskeeps goes take a look at hildon-desktop from fremantle | 17:35 | |
| johnx | Stskeeps, I would agree, unless it's somehow vastly easier to do now than later | 17:35 |
| johnx | alright! with my now un-fubared zaurus, it's time to really get this stuff working! | 17:35 |
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| udovdh | is the slow gps isue still in the diablo oso-gpsd? | 17:44 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: one thing against the magic X and statusbar to the left.. | 17:44 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: clock. | 17:44 |
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| johnx | Stskeeps, just aesthetic though, right? | 17:45 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 17:46 |
| johnx | actually clock just left of center looks ok in my mind | 17:46 |
| Stskeeps | for some reason my mind protests | 17:47 |
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| johnx | your call. I can picture other people wanting it on a corner too though. you're probably not alone | 17:48 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 17:48 |
| * Stskeeps is trying to make a writeup of layout on wiki so | 17:49 | |
| johnx | but really, given how often people actually click on it, does it deserve corner placement? | 17:49 |
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| johnx | <- mixed feelings | 17:49 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, i guess we'll get comments in 0.10 | 17:49 |
| thopiekar | Stskeeps: a pinboard anywhere would be useful.. | 17:50 |
| Stskeeps | pinboard? | 17:50 |
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| thopiekar | yes an online-pinboard of the mer-project.. | 17:50 |
| thopiekar | :P | 17:50 |
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| Stskeeps | not sure what pinboard is | 17:50 |
| thopiekar | hmm | 17:51 |
| thopiekar | bulletin board | 17:51 |
| thopiekar | ? | 17:51 |
| johnx | thopiekar, for keeping notes on? | 17:52 |
| thopiekar | yes :P | 17:52 |
| johnx | can you give an example of a program that works the way you want? | 17:52 |
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| Stskeeps | thopiekar: wiki, jaiku :P | 17:54 |
| thopiekar | tomboy for gnome .. It would be very useful to have such a board on the net.. for example when asking or wanting something for an user but he isn't online on irc.. so you can write (in case of mine): wazd, would you please make a mer-wallpaper for me with a touch of "developting"-icons?.. | 17:55 |
| thopiekar | hmm | 17:55 |
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| johnx | thopiekar, that's jaiku/twitter :) | 17:56 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, well, jaiku was supposed to help with that and the sprints list | 17:56 |
| johnx | but like anything, it has limited usefulness unless everyone is on it | 17:56 |
| lcuk | thopiekar, you should look into SMTP, it has the features you need | 17:56 |
| johnx | or a commanding majority at least :) | 17:56 |
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| thopiekar | wiki and jaiku are confusing.. just a page where you need just a look and finished.. | 17:57 |
| RST38h | Gentlemen, you have already got ITT, what OTHER bulletin board do you want? | 17:57 |
| lcuk | perhaps an inbox list of things to do ;) | 17:57 |
| RST38h | And ITT has even got inboxes for private messages, if email is too stupid for you | 17:58 |
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| Stskeeps | why does application menu not cover entire screen, btw | 17:59 |
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| lcuk | thopiekar, in all seriousness, what mer needs is a homepage | 17:59 |
| Stskeeps | we have one :P | 17:59 |
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| lcuk | not a random page in a wiki or on some site | 17:59 |
| johnx | RST38h, I think a new display format is needed, not a new message protocol | 17:59 |
| thopiekar | a wiki-page sucks, Stskeeps :P | 17:59 |
| lcuk | thopiekar, the wiki page doesnt suck | 18:00 |
| Stskeeps | thopiekar: the real reason to have a wiki is the fact the project is moving quite fast | 18:00 |
| lcuk | its just located a bit out of the way | 18:00 |
| lcuk | whats the betting you cant get mer.com tho | 18:00 |
| thopiekar | wazd is a homepage disigner.. I think he would like to make one but he would need space anywhere on the net.. | 18:01 |
| lcuk | mer.com (MER.COM) is for sale | 18:01 |
| lcuk | !!!! | 18:01 |
| aquatix | hm | 18:01 |
| lcuk | :D | 18:01 |
| thopiekar | ;P | 18:01 |
| lcuk | Unique and highly valuable domain. | 18:01 |
| lcuk | A rare opportunity on the secondary market ! | 18:01 |
| thopiekar | how much would such a domain cost? | 18:03 |
| thopiekar | 279 visitors in the last 31days.. | 18:03 |
| Stskeeps | thopiekar: prolly too much. | 18:03 |
| lcuk | since according to the seller they have had 31 offers i would say a bit more than peanuts | 18:03 |
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| * Stskeeps would really prefer mer to be under maemo.org auspices really | 18:03 | |
| lcuk | so would i sts | 18:03 |
| lcuk | speak to gan about mer.maemo.org ;) | 18:03 |
| thopiekar | :P | 18:03 |
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| thopiekar | what about mer.org? | 18:04 |
| keesj | I would prefer it to live under a german site | 18:04 |
| keesj | mer.de for the freanch speaking | 18:04 |
| thopiekar | mer.org is assigned <http://dict.leo.org/ende?lp=ende&p=thMx..&search=assigned> | 18:04 |
| thopiekar | *ouch* | 18:05 |
| thopiekar | :P | 18:05 |
| lcuk | since we are linux hackers why are we even bothering with domain names, sts - whats your catch mer ip address :D | 18:05 |
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| RST38h | johnx: Dunno, frankly I prefer not to breed new entities, whatever reasons are.... | 18:07 |
| johnx | RST38h, which is why you check your main in 'mail' and browse the net with telnet? :P | 18:07 |
| RST38h | keesj: or even la.mer.de | 18:07 |
| RST38h | johnx: correct | 18:08 |
| johnx | ...and why you yell at the 'damn kids' to 'get off your lawn'? :D | 18:08 |
| lcuk | 109.101.104.33 !!!!! | 18:08 |
| * RST38h has got no lawn, that is the only thing stopping him | 18:09 | |
| johnx | as long as that's established then :) | 18:09 |
| ShadowJK | speaking of batteries... | 18:09 |
| ShadowJK | One of my AA NIMH batteries just shorted in the charger | 18:09 |
| RST38h | How much property damage? | 18:10 |
| ShadowJK | Funny smell, fizzling, very hot, melted part of the charger :) | 18:10 |
| lcuk | normally those things go up like a claymore | 18:10 |
| ShadowJK | not nimh | 18:10 |
| johnx | hmmm...I'm beginning to have doubts about my zaurus' charging circuitry *sigh* | 18:10 |
| Meizirkki | After disabling nepomuk, KDE 4 with Qt 4.5 feels like a bit faster than the old one :( | 18:12 |
| Meizirkki | s/(/) | 18:12 |
| Corsac | hhm, maemo can't mount ext3 on the external mmc card? | 18:15 |
| Stskeeps | have to insmod ext3 | 18:15 |
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| Corsac | hmh, ok | 18:16 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: NiMH is relatively harmless | 18:17 |
| lcuk | still not good when they go. | 18:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, as do I, though I don't see much purpose to a whole subdomain. | 18:19 |
| Corsac | erf, I don't have ext3.ko, that's why :/ | 18:19 |
| johnx | Corsac, it's in /mnt/initfs/lib/`uname -r`/ | 18:19 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: yeah, but still wondering how to include it more into maemo.org | 18:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, maemo.org/mer if you really want. | 18:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | I like the wiki, though, personally. | 18:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Makes it agile. | 18:20 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, i do too currently | 18:20 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/Desktop_layout | 18:21 |
| johnx | thank you! | 18:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | florian, typo on "Mameo". | 18:22 |
| florian | GeneralAntilles: eeks.. one sec | 18:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | florian, "The Maemo Tutorial is a provides quite easy" is a little funny, too. ;) | 18:23 |
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| florian | yeah... I didn't manage to read the text again... had to play with the kids a little bit :) | 18:25 |
| Meizirkki | Stskeeps> can i try to play with marquee without the new unreleased hildon-desktop you were talking about _ | 18:25 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, thanks for that. should make things a lot easier to just jump into and start re-arranging things | 18:25 |
| florian | GeneralAntilles: its easy to see when they started to distract me :) | 18:27 |
| Stskeeps | Meizirkki: not yet sorry, but i think i have something sane later today | 18:27 |
| florian | GeneralAntilles: thanks for the hints! | 18:27 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: i hope to make it resolution independent so | 18:27 |
| Meizirkki | Stskeeps, ok | 18:27 |
| Stskeeps | ok, i'm confused, which are the "acknowledged" icon sizes of Maemo? | 18:31 |
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| GeneralAntilles | florian, sure. ;) | 18:38 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lbt, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=269827 | 18:46 |
| ShadowJK | Corsac, look in /mnt/initfs/lib/modules ? | 18:48 |
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| florian | mnby<nm #y | 18:59 |
| florian | +wa | 18:59 |
| b-man | ??? | 18:59 |
| Stskeeps | cat or fallen asleep | 19:00 |
| b-man | lol | 19:01 |
| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, in one sentence, how do you describe the maemo council ? :) | 19:02 |
| * b-man wonders if compositing is worth trying in mer | 19:02 | |
| Corsac | ShadowJK: yeah thanks I managed to do that | 19:02 |
| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, (I need this to GSoC :) ) | 19:02 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: how does it work? | 19:03 |
| Stskeeps | in ubuntu | 19:03 |
| b-man | it runs pritty well | 19:03 |
| Stskeeps | software rendering or? | 19:03 |
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| b-man | i have mesa installed | 19:04 |
| b-man | (software rendered) | 19:05 |
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| * b-man is not shure if the current tablets support hw compositing or not | 19:06 | |
| b-man | if there is such a thing.. | 19:07 |
| RST38h | they do not | 19:07 |
| Jaffa | VDVsx: Council elected by maemo.org users to represent community interests to Nokia | 19:07 |
| VDVsx | Jaffa, humm, I don't like the nokia name here :) | 19:08 |
| VDVsx | the the rest sounds good :) | 19:08 |
| Jaffa | VDVsx: to represent community interests with interested bodies | 19:09 |
| b-man | btw, i found out what was loose in my N800, when i took the faceplate off one of the small brakets fell out - it broke off :P | 19:10 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: auch :P | 19:10 |
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| * b-man is considering to buy a new faceplate now :P | 19:11 | |
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| VDVsx | Jaffa, thansk :) | 19:11 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-xmenu.png | 19:11 |
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| b-man | the corner that it fell on was also bent in :( | 19:11 |
| b-man | (on the faceplate) | 19:12 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, looks good but I dunno if I'll be able to adjust easy - on every device I've had, the X has *always* been in the top right hand corner. | 19:12 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: oh, it will be there | 19:12 |
| qwerty12 | s/easy/easily/ | 19:12 |
| infobot | qwerty12 meant: Stskeeps, looks good but I dunno if I'll be able to adjust easily - on every device I've had, the X has *always* been in the top right hand corner. | 19:12 |
| Stskeeps | it's the function that's interesting | 19:12 |
| qwerty12 | ah. cool :) | 19:13 |
| Stskeeps | we will probably have to do some usability testing on it though | 19:13 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:13 |
| Proteous | If my x's aren't in the top right I start killing hostages | 19:14 |
| Proteous | always seems to let me get what I want | 19:14 |
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| * Meizirkki is looking forward to mess with hildon | 19:19 | |
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| Stskeeps | any plans? | 19:27 |
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| Meizirkki | i'm planning to start with .conf files from ubuntu-MID and hildon-theme-mobile-basic. | 19:30 |
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| Meizirkki | Stskeeps, what's needed for apps without the top border? | 19:31 |
| lcuk | nothing i assume, that should come from gtk/x11 itselrf | 19:31 |
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| lcuk | ie i can run same apps as i do currently in an x11 window manager without borders | 19:32 |
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| Khertan_n810 | Hello ! | 19:33 |
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| lcuk | Ack ! | 19:34 |
| lcuk | how you doin khertan | 19:34 |
| Khertan_n810 | Hello ! | 19:34 |
| Khertan_n810 | Fine ... | 19:34 |
| Khertan_n810 | a bit tired but fine :) | 19:34 |
| * lcuk raises a sunday afternoon pint and offers you one | 19:35 | |
| * Khertan_n810 thx lvuk | 19:35 | |
| Khertan_n810 | lcuk | 19:35 |
| Khertan_n810 | :) | 19:35 |
| Khertan_n810 | and you how do you do ? | 19:36 |
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| lcuk | i think im ok, i spent most of yesterday fixing the missus's computer | 19:36 |
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| lcuk | and ive found something possibly better than bacon! | 19:37 |
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| lcuk | tracy made a lemon n lime drizzle cake! | 19:38 |
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| Khertan_n810 | héhé | 19:38 |
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| Stskeeps | Meizirkki: hmm? | 19:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, just to be clear, though, it's the Maemo Community Council. ;) | 19:52 |
| Khertan_n810 | http://www.khertan.net/poubelle/screenshot14.png | 19:53 |
| Khertan_n810 | http://www.khertan.net/poubelle/screenshot13.png | 19:53 |
| Khertan_n810 | what do you think of this screenshot ? | 19:53 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan_n810: looks great | 19:53 |
| qwerty12 | ~curse GTK | 19:54 |
| infobot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, GTK ! | 19:54 |
| Khertan_n810 | thx | 19:54 |
| Khertan_n810 | lol | 19:54 |
| thopiekar | where is the menu? | 19:54 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan_n810: would it look ok with a 52px marquee in the top? | 19:55 |
| Khertan_n810 | marquee ? | 19:55 |
| Stskeeps | like http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-xmenu.png | 19:55 |
| Khertan_n810 | it s custom widget | 19:55 |
| Stskeeps | (ignore the bad art) | 19:55 |
| Khertan_n810 | for the display | 19:55 |
| Khertan_n810 | so it can be only 320*240 | 19:55 |
| Khertan_n810 | or less :) | 19:55 |
| Stskeeps | *nod | 19:55 |
| thopiekar | look like 800x600... what about when it's not fullscreen'd? | 19:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Khertan_n810, I still think the buttons are ugly. :P | 19:55 |
| Khertan_n810 | gan ... u don t have my finger :) | 19:56 |
| Khertan_n810 | s | 19:56 |
| RST38h | Khertan: it is pretty | 19:57 |
| Khertan_n810 | http://www.khertan.net/poubelle/screenshot16.png | 19:57 |
| Khertan_n810 | not in fullscreen :) | 19:57 |
| RST38h | Khertan: will be better if you either draw month view as a proper grid (rather than a mtrix of squares) or make some spacing between squares | 19:58 |
| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, thanks, I do this mistake all the time :( | 19:58 |
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| Khertan_n810 | RST38h ? really ? month view calendar are always matrix of squares | 19:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | VDVsx, it's OK, you've got two more slip ups until the beatings commence. :P | 19:58 |
| Khertan_n810 | http://www.khertan.net/poubelle/screenshot17.png | 19:59 |
| Khertan_n810 | not in fullscreen week view | 19:59 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Khertan_n810, I'm not in love with the fixed-width font. | 19:59 |
| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, lol | 20:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd just use the regular sans. | 20:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Khertan_n810, alternatively, as long as it's configurable. . . . | 20:00 |
| thopiekar | the bar below should have the same color as the theme'd color for the background.. maemos theme has here rounded windows so the app should have that, too... | 20:01 |
| Khertan_n810 | may be configurable | 20:01 |
| thopiekar | :) | 20:01 |
| Khertan_n810 | thopiekar ... nopme | 20:01 |
| Khertan_n810 | im not ok that tool bar should have the same background that window | 20:02 |
| lcuk | Khertan_n810, looks good, have you got the performance you expected yet? | 20:02 |
| Khertan_n810 | yem | 20:02 |
| Khertan_n810 | yep | 20:02 |
| Khertan_n810 | not it s work well | 20:02 |
| Khertan_n810 | i ve do my own widget _) | 20:03 |
| Khertan_n810 | :) | 20:03 |
| thopiekar | sure but it could be a solution for the theming "problem".. | 20:03 |
| lcuk | yeah i said that :P | 20:03 |
| thopiekar | :P | 20:03 |
| Khertan_n810 | thopiekar ... yep i didn t like any of the maemo theme | 20:04 |
| Khertan_n810 | strange choice | 20:04 |
| thopiekar | :P | 20:05 |
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| Khertan_n810 | like the window border | 20:05 |
| thopiekar | meta in gray would be better | 20:05 |
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| Khertan_n810 | meta ? | 20:05 |
| lcuk | its a theme once out it should be changable shouldnt it | 20:06 |
| thopiekar | the meta theme.. don't know how it'S complete name was but was called like this... | 20:06 |
| lcuk | technically cant users just grab the one from the alpha and try directly on device? | 20:06 |
| lcuk | where are they stored? | 20:06 |
| thopiekar | my device is in a repair shop since the last 3 weeks | 20:07 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: it will mess up horridly cos of h-d incompatibility probably and its not mb2 | 20:07 |
| thopiekar | ;P | 20:07 |
| lcuk | worth a shot though! | 20:07 |
| qwerty12 | lcuk, look in /scratchbox/users/faheem/scratchbox/users/faheem/targets/FREMANTLE_ARMEL/usr/share/themes/devel - quite a few folders added | 20:07 |
| qwerty12 | s/faheem/$USER/ | 20:07 |
| infobot | qwerty12 meant: lcuk, look in /scratchbox/users/$USER/scratchbox/users/faheem/targets/FREMANTLE_ARMEL/usr/share/themes/devel - quite a few folders added | 20:07 |
| * thopiekar is away again.. | 20:09 | |
| *** thopiekar is now known as thopiekar_away | 20:09 | |
| lcuk | qwerty12, do you think they are meant to be there | 20:10 |
| lcuk | cos theres some stuff i see there that does not match with current apps | 20:10 |
| lcuk | pretty stuff | 20:10 |
| qwerty12 | lcuk, hmm, I don't think they were intentionally put there but looking at the other secrets the SDK is revealing, I don't think Nokia care so much imho | 20:10 |
| qwerty12 | s/intentionally put there/intentionally put there to be discovered/ | 20:11 |
| infobot | qwerty12 meant: lcuk, hmm, I don't think they were intentionally put there to be discovered but looking at the other secrets the SDK is revealing, I don't think Nokia care so much imho | 20:11 |
| Stskeeps | i don't know, but i friggen love qgn_calendar_bg_mar.png. | 20:16 |
| qwerty12 | same | 20:16 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, are you thirsty? | 20:17 |
| lcuk | bbl | 20:17 |
| qwerty12 | Lol, applied it on my N800. Everything except the titlebar for dialogs fucked up :) | 20:18 |
| Khertan_n810 | qgn_calendar_bg_mar.png ? | 20:20 |
| qwerty12 | http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/notsoquitefremantlethemeonn800.png :) | 20:20 |
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| Khertan_n810 | hum more look like a gtk 1.0 theme | 20:22 |
| qwerty12 | Lol, I don't think it's meant to be applied on a n800... (captain obvious speaking out) | 20:22 |
| Khertan_n810 | does there is a wmware somewhere with the alpha sdk ? | 20:24 |
| RST38h | qwerty: the background keyboard really rules | 20:24 |
| RST38h | qwerty: have to commit it to the official distribution of osso xterm =) | 20:24 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h, yeah, done by dnstase :) | 20:24 |
| Khertan_n810 | ouch low battery | 20:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Little hacky for the official branch. | 20:25 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h, I had to diff it manually and apply it to the diablo version though manually - it's done against a older version | 20:25 |
| RST38h | General: it is the best solution for xterm though | 20:25 |
| * RST38h suddenly remembered he is part of the osso xterm team | 20:25 | |
| RST38h | Should I ? =) | 20:26 |
| qwerty12 | Khertan_n810, http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/non-free/h/hildon-theme-devel/hildon-theme-devel_5.10.4-1alphasdk_all.deb - has the calendar pics | 20:26 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h, depends. Be nice to actually see something from the community applied (<cough> rotation </cough>) | 20:28 |
| Stskeeps | btw, what does "qgn" mean? | 20:28 |
| Khertan_n810 | quim gil nokia :) | 20:28 |
| qwerty12 | quality good nookie | 20:28 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan_n810: that did cross my mind | 20:29 |
| Khertan_n810 | héhé | 20:29 |
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| timelE61i | qgn comes from symbian | 20:33 |
| timelE61i | As to what it means, i hope i don't know | 20:34 |
| Stskeeps | k | 20:34 |
| timelE61i | I believe we got it from s90 which presumably got it from s60 either directly or via s80 | 20:36 |
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| timelE61i | it has one benifit: easy to grep | 20:37 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 20:38 |
| Khertan_n810 | calendar applet background | 20:38 |
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| Khertan_n810 | so there will be a calendar in fremantle :) | 20:38 |
| Stskeeps | sounds good to me, really | 20:38 |
| timelE61i | Or there might not be | 20:38 |
| Khertan_n810 | or just a gtk calendar widget :) | 20:38 |
| Stskeeps | now, will it connect to my very obscure oracle calendar system, heh | 20:39 |
| Stskeeps | ;) | 20:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol, the newbies on itT are tearing into Shopper, lbt. | 20:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, now you know how the Canola guys feel. ;) | 20:40 |
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| * qwerty12 passes lbt an MP5 | 20:40 | |
| thopiekar | :P | 20:41 |
| Khertan_n810 | tearing ? | 20:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Khertan_n810, pissing and moaning about how much they think it sucks. | 20:42 |
| Khertan_n810 | lol | 20:42 |
| Khertan_n810 | there is still stupid gujys | 20:42 |
| Khertan_n810 | guys | 20:42 |
| Khertan_n810 | look at comment for mCalendar | 20:42 |
| Khertan_n810 | saying how it should be | 20:43 |
| Khertan_n810 | but when i ask for help there is noone | 20:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Khertan_n810, http://www.thefreedictionary.com/tear+into | 20:43 |
| Khertan_n810 | :) | 20:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | tear into - To attack with great vigor or violence | 20:43 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Khertan_n810, itT is filled with silliness. | 20:44 |
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| Khertan_n810 | yep | 20:45 |
| Khertan_n810 | i didn t go on it since some time | 20:45 |
| Khertan_n810 | i ll go to eat ... | 20:46 |
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| Khertan_n810 | good evening | 20:46 |
| Khertan_n810 | bye | 20:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Later | 20:47 |
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| * qwerty12 sighs in annoyance at the simplicity of making XChat use the second line of the task switcher to display text | 20:52 | |
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| Stskeeps | tht easy? | 20:54 |
| qwerty12 | Yes, for GTK apps anyway. And I spent a shitload of time trying to figure it out :/. g_set_application_name for the first line and gtk_window_set_title for the second line | 20:55 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 20:55 |
| Stskeeps | what's a fair distribution of apps vs statusbar area? | 20:56 |
| Stskeeps | 1/3 apps, 2/3 statusbar? | 20:56 |
| qwerty12 | I would love to see that fucking arrow that comes from having to many statusbar applets gone. | 20:56 |
| qwerty12 | /to/too/ | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | mm | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | we'll see | 20:57 |
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| timelE61i | tear into comes from how lions and tigers attak their prey | 20:59 |
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| timelE61i | The arrow is always needed | 21:00 |
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| timelE61i | A user could have 1000 items | 21:00 |
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| qwerty12 | Meh, I'd happily sacrifice title space for more applet space. I use my applets more than I spend time staring at the title ;) | 21:01 |
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| timelE61i | Now, setting the limit at 6 or whatever definitely is/was stupid | 21:01 |
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| timelE61i | I take it the sdk has no hints about how those will work? | 21:02 |
| lcuk | timelE61i, yes, if it had simply eaten into the title space as required it wouldv been simpler | 21:02 |
| lcuk | / nicer | 21:03 |
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| timelE61i | Out of curiosity, are there *any* apps for which you care about window title? If so, why and how? | 21:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | timelE61i, I was thinking about that a few months ago, and I think it's limited to the browser. | 21:05 |
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| lcuk | timelE61i, without a titlebar, there is no other reasonable finger sized area with which to attach a standard menu to | 21:06 |
| timelE61i | Do you use mail/chat? | 21:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | But the default title space is too limited to be useful on most sites, so. . . . | 21:06 |
| timelE61i | And do you irc? | 21:06 |
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| derf | timelE61i: Any editor will usually put the document name up there, which can be helpful. | 21:06 |
| timelE61i | Note: i'm not defending the diablo design | 21:06 |
| lcuk | either an app has to supply its own hanging menu icon or use something smaller and obscure | 21:06 |
| timelE61i | It's stupid for browser as it prioritized appname over page title | 21:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, how about a hardware key? . . . . | 21:07 |
| timelE61i | Derf: sure, but how critical is it when you're *editing* the file | 21:08 |
| timelE61i | As opposed to task switching | 21:08 |
| derf | timelE61i: If you're switching between different versions of the same document? | 21:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | I always liked this mockup: http://tabletui.files.wordpress.com/2008/02/web_12.jpg | 21:08 |
| lcuk | mycode.c * | 21:08 |
| lcuk | mycode.c | 21:08 |
| timelE61i | You still task switch first... | 21:08 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: we have the minimenu now | 21:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, I'm not in love with the idea of diverging significantly from the Fremantle UI. . . . | 21:09 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, do themes have to be modified to use your layout? | 21:09 |
| * lcuk would like to see completely different appbars as required but also based on specific templates | 21:09 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Or, at least if you do also providing the Fremnatle layout as an option. | 21:09 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: a small tad :/ | 21:09 |
| qwerty12 | *cries* | 21:09 |
| qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles, OMG! You spelt Fremantle wrong! | 21:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12, qwerty is messing me up this weekend. :( | 21:10 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: in either way, we're playing with the possibilities and see how flexible it is | 21:10 |
| * GeneralAntilles is missing Dvorak. | 21:10 | |
| qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles, hehe, :P :) | 21:10 |
| qwerty12 | (qwerty rules, but I'm biased) | 21:11 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, i would agree with that screenshot apart from i dont see why it cant be dynamic, the tab with the title *should* be able to go that small, but if a user only has a few applets it hurts no1 to show the title in a more enlarged title tab | 21:11 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: Mer is/was supposed to be the research OS to make community have a stronger voice :P | 21:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, except for then developers will assume they have that much title space to play with. | 21:12 |
| lcuk | no, developers dont control that area anyway | 21:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, alternatively: the Fremantle backport. | 21:12 |
| lcuk | they never have and never will | 21:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | and as the Fremantle backport, developers and users would appreciate it if you don't diverge too much from Maemo. | 21:13 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: obviously | 21:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Otherwise, hello Mamona. | 21:13 |
| Stskeeps | but i am not confident fremantle has titlebars | 21:13 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: ow, burn | 21:13 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:13 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: we'll see if these designs even make sense i guess | 21:14 |
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| Stskeeps | else it's trivial to reinstate | 21:14 |
| x29a | bam | 21:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anyway, I think you should play as much as you want, but only so long as there's a good, familiar default for people to use. | 21:14 |
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| lcuk | is mer a fremantle backport or is it a community implementation which can work on current and future devices? i thought it was the latter and there will be things mer cannot do which means it may be distinct. unless of course nokia got onboard and actively tried to help to make mer the core for now and future | 21:15 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: there's interesting conflicts between what it is :P | 21:15 |
| Stskeeps | if mer was a fremantle backport, as in, adjusting fremantle packages to run on n8x0, i wouldn't work on it | 21:16 |
| Stskeeps | and nothing new was to be implementing than just a backport of the existing system | 21:16 |
| timelE61i | mer is what maemo should be in 5 years :) | 21:17 |
| Stskeeps | and the maintaining of it would die out slowly | 21:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, I don't think it should diverge more than is necessary. | 21:17 |
| lcuk | but that is totally not what ive seen. i see mer as a cleanup and a sanity check for maemo packages and so far im seeing excellent progress | 21:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Otherwise you just get fragmentation. | 21:17 |
| t_s_o | and things start to turn openmoko like... | 21:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | People develop for the things with users. | 21:18 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: ah, the move to the marquee is actually to get closer to fremantle | 21:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | In this case, Maemo is the thing with users. | 21:18 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, I'm not addressing anything specific. | 21:19 |
| RST38h | Anyone knows what application to use to play divx/xvid videos on Nokia 5800? | 21:19 |
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| RST38h | (SmartMovie reports unknown format, Divx player is not compatible) | 21:20 |
| timelE61i | marquee? | 21:21 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h, tried its converter? | 21:21 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h, see if CorePlayer is available - I swear by that app on a PPC | 21:21 |
| Stskeeps | timelE61i: we're adapting ubuntu mobile's marquee into something vaguely sane | 21:21 |
| timelE61i | Picture? | 21:22 |
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| RST38h | qwerty: ah | 21:23 |
| RST38h | Lemme see... | 21:24 |
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| Stskeeps | timelE61i: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation/Desktop_layout has examples of it in use | 21:27 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, did you switch to a real Mer logo yet? | 21:27 |
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| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: waiting for wazd still | 21:28 |
| timelE61i | will that kill my browser? :) | 21:29 |
| Stskeeps | dunno | 21:29 |
| Stskeeps | bbl | 21:29 |
| RST38h | CorePlayer for 5800 seems to exist | 21:30 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h, go for it then, 700MB xvid are played fine with it on a PPC and on my brother's N73 | 21:30 |
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| RST38h | ! | 21:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Woo, PM asking how to install Open Office. | 21:32 |
| timelE61i | pm? | 21:32 |
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| GeneralAntilles | timelE61i, private message. itT. | 21:32 |
| timelE61i | On an n800? | 21:33 |
| timelE61i | 1. Get an mmc for boot device | 21:33 |
| Proteous | 2. Eat a samich | 21:33 |
| timelE61i | 2. Download image for mmc w/ ooo preinstalled | 21:33 |
| Proteous | 3. take a break | 21:33 |
| Proteous | 4. pet the cat | 21:34 |
| timelE61i | .. Walk the dog | 21:34 |
| Proteous | heh | 21:34 |
| qwerty12 | cats merk dogs | 21:34 |
| Proteous | merk? | 21:34 |
| qwerty12 | http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=merc | 21:34 |
| VDVsx | GeneralAntilles, thanks for your corrections :) | 21:35 |
| timelE61i | gan: the question only specified install, not run, correct? | 21:35 |
| fireun | 5. profits! | 21:35 |
| Proteous | merk != merc | 21:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | "I'm new here and trying to figure out how I can read and compose word documents on my Nokia N810. I like the look of the Open Office app, but have no idea how to get that program on to my Nokia." | 21:36 |
| Proteous | apt-get install WORD.EXE | 21:36 |
| timelE61i | more like invest in nokia stock. Pull a van winkle. Wake up to profit! | 21:36 |
| qwerty12 | Proteous, true :), my spelling sucks; give me a break :P | 21:36 |
| Proteous | :P | 21:37 |
| timelE61i | Install abiword.. | 21:37 |
| Proteous | I would just remote desktop into a windows box... | 21:37 |
| * timelE61i assumes ooo is more torturous than abiword | 21:37 | |
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| timelE61i | proteous: in my case, that'd involve setting up the vpn client | 21:38 |
| Proteous | I just tunnel RD through SSh | 21:38 |
| Proteous | poor mans VPN | 21:39 |
| Proteous | heh | 21:39 |
| * timelE61i nods | 21:39 | |
| timelE61i | i could do that | 21:39 |
| Proteous | although using Remote Desktop with the stylus on that high res screen is sorta hard | 21:40 |
| *** christefano has joined #maemo | 21:40 | |
| Proteous | everything is so small | 21:40 |
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| timelE61i | Extra large fonts? | 21:42 |
| timelE61i | Windows does support dpis | 21:42 |
| Proteous | yeah | 21:42 |
| timelE61i | Although 3rd party apps... | 21:42 |
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| Proteous | and I'm usualy going into boxes that I use on a normal screen | 21:42 |
| Proteous | most of the time | 21:42 |
| Proteous | it's not horrible | 21:43 |
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| Proteous | trying to double tap in the right place to get a right click can be tough | 21:43 |
| Proteous | most of the stuff that I am doing with RD on the tablet is sys admin stuff, click on the wrong thing and bad stuff happens | 21:44 |
| timelE61i | Osk? :) | 21:44 |
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| timelE61i | my favorite is remotely downing the ethernet interface | 21:45 |
| Proteous | lol | 21:45 |
| Proteous | makes it hard to fix | 21:45 |
| Proteous | hitting shutdown instead of restart | 21:46 |
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| Proteous | or logout | 21:46 |
| timelE61i | i've done that too | 21:46 |
| timelE61i | Thankfully i think i've only usually downed solaris/linux remotely | 21:47 |
| timelE61i | But i locally accidentally down my wXP laptop | 21:47 |
| Proteous | heh | 21:47 |
| timelE61i | Because it queues things badly | 21:47 |
| Proteous | I've been RDed into a dev server and a live server and mistakenly shutdown the wrong one | 21:48 |
| Proteous | one was in the room with me, one was in a colo... | 21:48 |
| timelE61i | Ouch | 21:48 |
| timelE61i | You don't have distinct colorschemes? | 21:48 |
| Proteous | didn't realize why I couldn't get to the live server till I had someone go to the colo too see why I couldn't get to the box | 21:48 |
| Proteous | no, was a n00b | 21:49 |
| timelE61i | Lesson learned? | 21:49 |
| Proteous | hah, yeah | 21:49 |
| timelE61i | The primary bugzilla admin for mozilla.org has special css to color bugzilla based on his active login cookie | 21:50 |
| timelE61i | ... Similar issue | 21:50 |
| Proteous | heh | 21:50 |
| Proteous | nice | 21:50 |
| timelE61i | Technically, it's greasemonkey, not pure css | 21:50 |
| timelE61i | Because bugzilla will show you a bug based on current cookie | 21:51 |
| Proteous | a lot easy to do with with GM | 21:51 |
| Proteous | easier | 21:51 |
| timelE61i | But accept changes based on the next cookie | 21:51 |
| timelE61i | W/o complaint | 21:51 |
| derf | Back when I still used Windows, I'd sometimes grab the wrong keyboard and hit ctl-alt-del... | 21:51 |
| timelE61i | Css can't respond to cookies, so gm is needed | 21:51 |
| Proteous | yeah | 21:51 |
| derf | ...then I'd look over and see my Linux box shutting down. | 21:52 |
| timelE61i | Derf: when i do that, ..yeah | 21:52 |
| Proteous | well, you could do some scripting on the server end... | 21:52 |
| timelE61i | A unix box dies | 21:52 |
| timelE61i | Proteos, yeah, bugzilla should embed the current user into the form and warn about mismatches | 21:52 |
| timelE61i | But... | 21:52 |
| timelE61i | Admin's don't have time to fix | 21:53 |
| GAN800 | I wish bugzilla had some more UI conveniences. | 21:53 |
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| timelE61i | Eg? | 21:54 |
| GAN800 | Prettier, more compact bug lists. | 21:54 |
| * timelE61i walks home from dinner | 21:54 | |
| GAN800 | A little sprinkle of AJAX here and there. | 21:54 |
| timelE61i | um, compact how? | 21:54 |
| Proteous | 5pt font | 21:55 |
| Proteous | all vowels stripped | 21:55 |
| timelE61i | You can pick the columns you want.. | 21:55 |
| GAN800 | timelE61i, yeah, but the display could be more efficient. I've been thinking about making a mockup. | 21:56 |
| timelE61i | btw, have you tried deskzilla? | 21:56 |
| GAN800 | timelE61i, no. All the alternative bugzilla interfaces I've tried so far have sucked. | 21:57 |
| timelE61i | personally, i find gmail buglists work for me :) | 21:57 |
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| Proteous | I like cakezilla | 21:58 |
| Proteous | tastes like cake | 21:58 |
| GAN800 | Mmm . . . cake. | 21:58 |
| Proteous | unless you are a pie person | 21:58 |
| Proteous | then you can just go away | 21:58 |
| Proteous | now | 21:58 |
| timelE61i | aww | 21:59 |
| GAN800 | I want some rum cake now. | 21:59 |
| b-man | hehe | 21:59 |
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| Proteous | lookout for the web based IRC clients!! | 22:00 |
| * Proteous runs for the hills | 22:00 | |
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| *** housetier is now known as s0nted | 22:01 | |
| timelE61i | is that the obscene past tense of to snot? | 22:03 |
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| RST38h | KILL KILL | 22:05 |
| qwerty12 | MERC MERC | 22:05 |
| timelE61i | bill bill? | 22:05 |
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| RST38h | DESTROY. | 22:06 |
| timelE61i | Sonic screwdriver | 22:06 |
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| *** b-man has quit IRC | 22:08 | |
| * RST38h does not understand what the hell is going on in TI83+ SE | 22:08 | |
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| * lcuk hands RST38h a delorean | 22:08 | |
| * timeless wonders if people get the references used here ^^ | 22:09 | |
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| GAN800 | timeless, perhaps we should provide footnotes. | 22:11 |
| lcuk | no, foot notes are useless with a hand optimized OS | 22:11 |
| * RST38h has seen the real delorean at his mechanics place once | 22:12 | |
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| AndrewFBlack | Hello | 22:12 |
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| RST38h | Funny looking thing, all steel, no paint, etc | 22:16 |
| GAN800 | Slow as hell. | 22:16 |
| RST38h | Flux capacitor was missing, I guess that was the reason they brought it for repair | 22:16 |
| RST38h | GAN: That is because your also missed the flux capacitor =) | 22:17 |
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| lcuk | flux capacitor has always been an aftermarket mod | 22:22 |
| lcuk | i think west coast customs can fit them | 22:22 |
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| b-man | hello, AndrewFBlack :) | 22:24 |
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| lcuk | give me strength! youngest now has the nicest smelling hair in existence. lynx pulse of all things | 22:27 |
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| guysoft42 | hey, does anyone here know how to solve audio problems on easy-deb-chroot? | 22:34 |
| guysoft42 | it seems to have a problem | 22:34 |
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| guysoft42 | it seems to have stoped after i installed audacity | 22:38 |
| RST38h | All right, now I am almost sure that TI83+SE/TI84+/TI84+SE firmwares at the TI site are not complete | 22:39 |
| RST38h | Firmware goes to page 0x7F at startup which does not seem to exist in the 8Xu file | 22:39 |
| lcuk | RST38h, is there a chance the machines some raw factory files when replacing the firmware | 22:39 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Well, I have not found raw binaries. TI provides .8Xu files with some hex data in a special format but it seems to be missing pages beyond 0x1D | 22:40 |
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| lcuk | damn! thats like getting a read your own adventure book, but finding page 97 is missing | 22:42 |
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| GAN800 | lcuk, it's OK, you just die there. | 22:43 |
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| lcuk | damn | 22:45 |
| RST38h | GAN: *You* die, I just start digging =) | 22:45 |
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| mavhc | rewrite your own adventure, the wiki version | 22:50 |
| mavhc | it's a multiuser version, you have to follow the instructions on the page, but before you leave you can edit them for the next visitor | 22:50 |
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| lcuk | mavhc, i saw a variation using youtube - it was kinda cool | 22:57 |
| lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=X5Qn8-w12p0 | 22:58 |
| mavhc | turn left and go to page x87a790sb976, turn right and go to page laks865as865 | 22:58 |
| * b-man discovers what might be PowerVR driver sorce while looking at some maemo5 kernel sorce, hmm | 23:04 | |
| lcuk | b-man, yeah thats likely since the omap3 includes one ;) | 23:04 |
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| lcuk | and world+dog has announced it will be used | 23:04 |
| b-man | i wonder if it's possible to modify for our cpu.. | 23:05 |
| b-man | nah | 23:06 |
| lbt | GAN800: thanks for the heads up on itt - posted a couple of responses :) I really think I need a bit of help text! | 23:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | b-man, no. | 23:07 |
| b-man | :( | 23:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | b-man, we have OMAP2430 stuff that we can't even use. | 23:08 |
| lcuk | b-man, technicaly there might be some parallels but it would be very difficult to find | 23:08 |
| b-man | hmmm | 23:08 |
| lcuk | gan there is more chance of using the series 3 stuff to be honest, all we have for the 2430 is a binary | 23:09 |
| lcuk | the series 3 api should eb documented etc | 23:09 |
| lcuk | lbt, left a message on the forum thread :P | 23:09 |
| lbt | yeah - valid criticisms | 23:10 |
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| lcuk | lbt, feh! you have done something no1 has yet. you are trailblazing! han solo looks upon you with envy | 23:12 |
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| lcuk | tracy likes the shopping cart icon | 23:13 |
| lbt | Inkscape :) | 23:13 |
| lcuk | her words when i said look for shopper in the applicaiton list were "show shopper?" | 23:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, problem is, those criticisms are all wrapped up in bad attitude. | 23:13 |
| lcuk | shoe | 23:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Qt seems to result in overlarge taskbar icons. | 23:14 |
| lbt | I fiddled and 0.5.6 is much nicer | 23:14 |
| lbt | and it does portrait | 23:15 |
| lbt | which is *REALLY* good :D | 23:15 |
| lbt | Really goof | 23:15 |
| lbt | good | 23:15 |
| lbt | like - rabble rousing to irritate nokia to put it in the kernel good | 23:15 |
| lbt | well, maybe not *that* good :) | 23:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, already been tried. | 23:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Diablo's dead, anyway. | 23:16 |
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| lbt | http://shopper.garage.maemo.org/Shopper-rot.png | 23:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | We couldn't even get them to ship stupid categories. | 23:16 |
| lbt | I saw... | 23:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | lbt, I think dropping the page background from the Shopper icons would help. | 23:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or just stick to Nokia icons | 23:17 |
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| lbt | 8| | 23:17 |
| lbt | if you zoom in you can *read* my icons | 23:17 |
| lbt | they make bacon butties IIRC | 23:18 |
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| lbt | I'll make it themeable one day... now, back to Mer - an OS that won't let you down... | 23:18 |
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| lcuk | lbt - the icons are fully scalable and contain extremely detailed contents? | 23:24 |
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| lbt | there are svg ones yes | 23:24 |
| lbt | although I admit I used bitmaps in the released version :) | 23:25 |
| lcuk | lol | 23:25 |
| lcuk | whats the difference between "Bread" and "Bread (nice)" | 23:27 |
| lbt | tell tracy the icon now has shoes on it... | 23:27 |
| lcuk | no | 23:27 |
| lcuk | i darent | 23:27 |
| lbt | Bread (nice) is like tiger bread | 23:27 |
| lbt | or ciabatta | 23:27 |
| lcuk | she will use it to fullest extent | 23:27 |
| lcuk | "but the nokia said i needed them" | 23:27 |
| lbt | heh - wait 'til you see the next default shopping list.... | 23:28 |
| lbt | oh, that's going to cost... | 23:28 |
| lcuk | we have already spoken about a food timer app, she currently sets about 10 alarms spread over the 2 hours needed to cook sunday lunch, would be easier if she had a simple way to do it | 23:29 |
| lcuk | ^note, she uses her nokia phone for this manually | 23:29 |
| lcuk | and spends at least 10 minutes preparing it | 23:29 |
| lbt | heh - that's a good idea | 23:30 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk: http://pyrecipe.garage.maemo.org/images/timer.png | 23:30 |
| lcuk | david, an end to end system would be nice - tie in receipe selection with a shopping list | 23:30 |
| lcuk | "i need to make 4 sunday roasts | 23:30 |
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| lcuk | yes gan, i saw it - but thats a single timer, tracy sets loads | 23:31 |
| lcuk | unless i misread the app and it can have a load | 23:31 |
| lcuk | david, how heavy weight would it be to add photograph stuff for shopper | 23:32 |
| lcuk | and a link to lardmans barcode | 23:33 |
| lcuk | can see a whole suit of interrelated apps relating to everyday life. | 23:33 |
| lcuk | + /me | 23:33 |
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| lbt | I am interested in that kind of thing | 23:41 |
| lbt | TBH, my next step was to link into the GPS so it would pull up the right list as you approached the shop | 23:42 |
| lcuk | depending on the machine that wont always work, normally you will only need a few things, just give a big easy hit filter with the 3 or 4 shops you normally hit | 23:43 |
| lbt | yes | 23:43 |
| lcuk | but also, dont you sometimes make a paper list and try asda, then tescos for the remains | 23:43 |
| lbt | this is more sainsbury vs tesco | 23:43 |
| lbt | oh, something just crossed my mind | 23:43 |
| lbt | http://shopper.garage.maemo.org/Shopper-rot.png | 23:44 |
| lbt | when Shopper runs like this the Qt menus don't crop correctly | 23:44 |
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| lcuk | i cant run rotated yet, i need to file a real bug about it | 23:45 |
| lbt | so if Nokia add rotation to Diablo then that's the kind of bug I think they're worried about | 23:45 |
| lbt | can liqbase run on a kernel with rotate though? | 23:45 |
| lcuk | add rotation anywhere | 23:45 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk: the kernel comes w/out the 48mhz stuff too | 23:45 |
| lcuk | errr ummm eeee, no | 23:45 |
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| lcuk | xv fails with graphics over 480*480 | 23:45 |
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| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/liqbase_rotate_480x480.jpg | 23:46 |
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| lbt | saves energy | 23:46 |
| lbt | all that lack | 23:46 |
| lbt | black | 23:46 |
| lcuk | and i havent forcefully tried since, i was hoping mer would be in a good enough shape to allow tracing through the omapfb and xv and x11 to find the bug myself | 23:46 |
| lcuk | it does not know how to properly handle things anyway - most of the ui elements were fixed at aspect | 23:47 |
| lcuk | scalable but still oriented landscale | 23:47 |
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| lcuk | before i knew the kernel could rotate in hardware i had internal support for rotation which kinda withered once jott released the patch | 23:49 |
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| lcuk | what do midori/tear do when they encounter javascript? | 23:51 |
| lcuk | do they expose a "parseandrunscript" handler? | 23:51 |
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