IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2009-03-05

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Macerfinally have debian on this thing00:03
Macerthink that's the last time i decide to choose the 1 drive lvm encrypted option00:03
Macerthat crap took like 12 hours00:03
lcukive got a mouse cursor on my maemo screen. i wondered what it was and tried to push it off00:04
* lcuk has never seen a pointer on maemo before00:04
Macerit pops up every now and then00:05
lcuknot with normal apps00:05
lcukit probably just stands out more cos of my blue desktop background00:06
qwerty12_N800lcuk: as root, make sure /home/user/.icons/default/index.theme says: [Icon Theme]<newline>Inherits=xcursor-transparent . Reboot and thy cursor shall be gone.00:07
lcukill just reboot qwerty, its prob cos i killed wm and desktop and stuff yesterday00:08
lcukjust surprised me cos i havent seen it b400:08
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Macerwow.. whatever gnome uses for its filemanager really sucks00:08
lcukin ubuntu on my laptop its annoying00:09
woglindeor what?00:09
lcukmetacity isnt it00:09
Macerit opens a new window for every dir00:09
lcuklol win9500:09
Maceri'm trying to figure out whereyou change that00:09
Macerthen there is no way to go up a dir00:09
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lcukwhats metacity then and why did it pop in my head00:09
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woglindeoh I thought you mean the file dialog00:09
qwerty12_N800the wm00:09
Macerlike in vista when they took the up arrow away00:09
qwerty12_N800Macer: ubuntu's gnome doesn't exhibit that behaviour for me. iirc new windows is a setting sthat can be changed in gconf (or there's probably an quicker way from settings somewhere)00:11
Maceri guess you have to set it up to use a "browser"00:11
Macerthere is an option for it00:12
woglindeI dont use gnome at all00:12
woglindeisnatlling ion3 or blackbox makes you happy00:12
Maceromg this thing has like... a HUGE tool bar :)00:12
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Direc_I installed ubuntu-n8x0 on external mem card, and the boot screen reboots when loading linuxrc... any tips?00:13
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Direc_waits and reboots, that is00:14
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kaiehi. I wish the skype app would give me a sound notification when I receive a chat message00:21
kaieI know, I should report that to skype, just curious whether you know how to enable it00:21
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Direc_ah, found it:
Direc_say hi to all the little differences in kernel versions... :)00:34
Direc_boy, this takes time to boot!00:35
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neatojonesDirec:  The first time takes the longest00:40
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zer0mdqhey, after i upgraded my n810 from chinook to diablo, now when i connect to a wifi network my /etc/resolv.conf doesn't update automatically00:49
zer0mdqdhcp works, i get the ip addrrs, the gateway but no DNS :S00:49
zer0mdqany idea?00:49
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alan_peeryI was missing the ability to set to using small fonts in Pidgin. Xchat appears to have this, which I find to be much more useful.01:37
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* b-man starts the long prosess of re-imaging his ubuntu-n8x0 repository (applying a large upgrade to the repo allong with several new packages including support for Adobe Flashplayer 9 :D)02:21
zer0mdqhey, after i upgraded my n810 from chinook to diablo, now when i connect to a wifi network my /etc/resolv.conf doesn't update automatically02:22
zer0mdqany idea?02:22
zer0mdqdhcp works, i get the ip addrrs, the gateway but no DNS :S02:22
mgedmin/etc/resolv.conf isn't supposed to02:24
mgedminit always points to localhost02:24
mgedminwhere dnsmasq sits02:24
mgedminand proxies to the real dns02:24
mgedminwhich is in /tmp/resolv.conf.dnsmasq or something like that, I forgot02:24
mgedmindownside: no 'search' or 'domain' option in your /etc/resolv.conf02:24
zer0mdqmm the only way i got to work is to add mi router ip address to my /etc/resolv.conf02:26
zer0mdqi have a /tmp/resolv.conf.wlan002:28
mgedminthat's the one02:28
zer0mdqwith the router addrs on it02:28
mgedmindnsmasq is supposed to talk to it02:28
mgedminis dnsmasq running?02:28
mgedmins/talk to it/read it/02:28
zer0mdqbut until i edited the /etc/resolv.conf, it did not worked02:28
zer0mdqmgedmin: let me check02:29
zer0mdqit wasn't running02:30
zer0mdqi just started02:30
zer0mdqlet me check now02:30
zer0mdqyep, now it's working02:32
zer0mdqbut it seems that after a reboot it doesn't start automatically02:32
zer0mdqall the websites work, except for......... :O02:33
zer0mdqi reflashed it last sunday with the last image of diablo02:33
mgedminwhich one is that?02:35
zer0mdq RX-44_DIABLO_5.2008.43-7_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin02:36
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mgedminit's the one that I have here02:36
mgedminno DNS problems02:36
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test34anyone tried android on the n810? is it worth a try ?02:45
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fireunnot sure they have wifi working yet, so... unless yer bored or want to make apps02:47
FireFox3wireless works.. i think02:51
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* b-man 04:50
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wzhou[Quez] How can I autorun my application after system start without X support? thanks05:03
wzhoumy application needs to run at root level, I need to becomeroot everytime, and spawn it. Is that a simple way, like autorun? I can do this in ubuntu or debian desktop with initrc.05:04
ProteousI'm not the right person to be asking this too05:04
ProteousI would probably train a monkey to type the commands in for me at boot05:05
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wzhouis there other way to gain root access than becameroot?05:10
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GeneralAntilleswzhou, rootsh05:21
GeneralAntillesIt's in Extras.05:21
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, extras is
wzhouwow~ cool~ thanks alot! I'll check it~05:24
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GeneralAntillesI don't know what geneven's angle is.05:25
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, what, did you name drop? :P ;)05:57
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b-manhello, neatojones :)06:39
b-manhow is e17 going?06:40
neatojonessorry again about the thread hijacking06:40
neatojoneshow've you been06:40
neatojonesIt's building (mostly)06:40
neatojonesI'm a good way through.06:40
neatojonesmany of the packages are already on the mer repo06:41
b-mani've been fine, i'm trying to fix a dependence bug with adobe-flashplayer and the xulrunner plugin06:41
b-mansorry for the slow response)06:41
b-manneatojones: mind if i add those packages to the ubuntu-n8x0 repo now? :)06:42
neatojoneswhich ones?06:43
b-manthe packages that you've recently built06:43
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neatojonesoh, sure06:50
neatojonesyou can load any of them.06:51
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neatojonesThe ones in the Mer repo are more compliant (probably).06:51
timelE61ineatojones: what's the problem w/ flash?06:51
neatojonesproblem with flash?06:52
neatojonesbrb...xchat is acting up06:52
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neatojonessorry.. I'm back06:52
b-mantimelF61i: it's just a little glitch i'm fixing right now ;)06:53
neatojonesI missed something...?06:54
neatojonesthe ecore is loaded up.  But e won't be functional until I get the e17 packages loaded.06:54
neatojonesRight now, it's been choking over some windows code in the file06:55
neatojoneson embryo...06:55
neatojonesnot sure I've been commenting it out and trying to build06:55
neatojoneshopefully, I'm not screwing anything up :D   It looks to me like it's windows code though... so, I think I'm safe.06:56
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neatojoneswe'll see.  BTW.  I think the problem qole was having might have been related to having mixed packages installed (some mine and some his).06:57
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neatojonesI mean some were mine and some were in ubuntu06:57
neatojonesI think some of my versions don't use the same naming scheme as ubuntu06:58
neatojonesso, they look older, but are actually newer06:58
b-manmost likely06:58
neatojonesI'll go through and fix it eventually...but for now, just want to get it up and working.06:58
neatojonesb-man, there's probably at least 40 packages I've added this evening.06:59
b-manhow big is the whole desktop?06:59
neatojonesnot too big actually.07:01
neatojonesthe packages are pretty small07:01
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neatojonesI'm thinking it was like 40 or 70megs07:01
b-manthat's not too bad :)07:01
b-manlighter than lxde07:01
neatojonesnah.  I got it loaded using 32mb or RAM/swap07:02
neatojonesfully functional:  wlan0 was up as well as bt07:02
neatojonesthat raster guy that made it claims he can get it to load with only 11 or 1207:03
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neatojonesI don't know that it's possible.  E17 is pretty light, but we have quite a few things starting like the wifi and ssh and bt, etc07:03
* b-man thinks it's halarious that the ubuntu jaunty guys are trying to compile qemu for armel, but are failing miserably07:06
b-manit wasn't ment to run on arm XD07:07
b-manmost of the sorce code isn't even compatible07:07
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b-manit uses some binary calls that arm doesn't recognise07:08
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luke-jrb-man: qemu was meant to be portable07:10
b-manbut there hasn't been any fully successful builds for armel from my knowledge.. correct me if i'm wrong07:11
* neatojones still can't get embryo to build07:12
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neatojonesb-man: just reread the thread. Flash will be sweet!07:16
neatojonesdoes it install to firefox directory?07:16
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* luke-jr starts a Boycott Flash campaign07:16
b-manif you install xulrunner-plugin-ubuntu-flashplayer ;)07:16
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neatojonesI'm guessing I can simply copy the .so file to my home directory for midori right?07:17
b-manpossibly, if that's the plugin directory07:17
neatojones(I mean into wherever midori stores plugins07:17
b-manit should07:18
b-manneatojones: btw don't install xulrunner-plugin-ubuntu-flashplayer just yet, it still has a small bug07:19
neatojonesIf anyone that understands deb packaging better than me wouldn't mind taking a look at the .logs from the embryo packages that crashed during build, I would really appreciate it.  For now, I'm going to try and update svn and see if that fixes it.07:20
b-manpluse i need to update osso-esd for Adobe Flashplayer - i had the wrong version number07:20
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neatojonesI wish I could connect to the internet in my scratchbox07:20
neatojonesthis is a pain otherwise.07:21
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* b-man needs to sleep - 12:22 here and it's a schoolnight XP g'night07:24
Guest91972Hi, everyone07:24
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b-manhello and goodbye XD07:25
qgiloff topic but wow
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qgiland more seriously, impressed by
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GeneralAntillesqgil, need multitouch to make it work well on a device, though.07:40
GeneralAntillesThe horrible framerate doesn't show so well. :(07:40
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qgilGeneralAntilles: he explains about the framerate in the blog post07:50
qgilGeneralAntilles: but yeah, I hadn't thought about the obvious multitouch, and I guess in that game you do get 2 presses (or more?) at once07:50
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qgilthere is a comment in the Frets On Fire posts that seems to suggest that mp3 support comes for free07:58
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qgilI wonder if people is aware about things like
GeneralAntillesI'm going to start launching 2x4s at people who use "freemantle". . . .07:58
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GeneralAntillesBlog comments are golden.07:59
RST38hqgil: yes.07:59
qgilthat could be a good name to the Fremantle community edition for OMAP2  :P07:59
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: so "fermentle" is still OK?07:59
* GeneralAntilles launches a 2x4 at luke-jr.07:59
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GeneralAntillesI usually have to try to refrain from reading the comments on Engadget.08:00
qgilthe pronunciation is also important (like for any open source project, it seems) and I have heard many "fremanTILE" already08:00
RST38hqgil: open source stuff somehow evades the licensing thing though08:00
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qgilRST38h: "open source stuff" yes but not device manufacturers shipping products with mp3 support preinstalled08:01
GeneralAntillesqgil, just toss this at people
qgilGeneralAntilles: oh, thanks08:01
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GeneralAntillesqgil, or you could do your own "Hello, this is Quim Gil, and I pronounce Fremantle as Fremantle." ;)08:02
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qgil(would be useful to get the pronunciation of 'Quim Gil' right as well)08:02
GeneralAntillesqgil, you're not the North Korean dictator, then? :P08:03
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luke-jrI thought that was Kim Sung?08:03
qgilonce a native English speaker called me "Quim Girl", which was funny enough according to my knowledge of English slang08:03
RST38hqgil: yep, which also explains lack of encoding in most devices08:03
* neatojones finally gets embryo to build!08:04
RST38hqgil: $2..5 license fee is about the same you would pay for the SDRAM chip08:04
luke-jrthat's one smart embryo08:04
qgilRST38h: it's a good business, indeed08:04
GeneralAntillesqgil, if you put together a recording of that we could put it on a loop on ;)08:05
* luke-jr is glad his browsers don't allow webpages to make noise08:05
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GeneralAntillesWoot's got a $15 Bluetooth headset if anybody needs one.08:06
GeneralAntillesds3, on woot?08:06
luke-jrthat *is* tempting08:07
luke-jrbet I'd never use it tho08:07
ds3Oh woot08:07
luke-jrfor some reason I can only get Maemo to connect while it's on my LAN08:08
luke-jrand when it's on my LAN, I have the regular phone sitting next to me08:08
luke-jr(without the wireless latency)08:09
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qgilby the way RST38h (or someone), do you happen to know why Stallmann endorsed the BSD license for Ogg codecs?08:09
luke-jrwhy wouldn't Stallman endorse BSDL?08:10
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qgilthat's my question, it's a usual quote when someone referes at Ogg codecs licensing08:10
qgilin wikipedia for instance08:10
PingerHi, boys, i need your help08:11
qgil"The libraries were originally released under the GNU Lesser General Public Licence, but a BSD license was later chosen with the endorsement of Richard Stallman."08:11
qgilthe sentence refers to
qgil"In response to the change of license, Richard Stallman of the Free Software  Foundation says, "I agree.  It is wise to make some of the Ogg Vorbis code  available for use in proprietary software, so that commercial companies doing  proprietary software will use it, and help Vorbis succeed in competition with  other formats that would be restricted against our use."08:12
Pingeri want to start maemo5 in scratchbox, but i got this message "Starting Maemo Launcher: maemo-launcher start failed."08:12
qgilbut, isn't LGPL supposed to cover that?08:12
Pingeranybody can help me?08:12
Stskeepsqgil: i'd think so too08:12
Stskeepsqgil: maybe there's some obscure problem when it is part of some one-binary system08:13
qgilwhat doesn't help me to clarify things is the fact that this seems to be not-discussed anywhere (I could find)08:13
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qgiland when you compare this lack of discussion to the many GPL/BSD threads...08:14
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qgilStskeeps: I see, like some kind of mini-embedded er... "mp3 player"?08:17
luke-jrqgil: LGPL is equivalent to GPL for C++; is Vorbis C++?08:18
Stskeepsi think it may have to deal with ) Convey the Minimal Corresponding Source under the terms of this License, and the Corresponding Application Code in a form suitable for, and under terms that permit, the user to recombine or relink the Application with a modified version of the Linked Version to produce a modified Combined Work, in the manner specified by section 6 of the GNU GPL for conveying Corresponding Source.08:18
qgilluke-jr: ???08:19
luke-jrqgil: at least where templates are used08:19
Stskeepsthat if it's a non-shared library linking (embedded system), you need to publish parts of your code to make the user able to relink i guess08:19
luke-jrif the header is more than a mere interface, LGPL is the same as GPL08:19
Stskeepsand that might be a problem occasionally08:19
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luke-jrStskeeps: templates are always static08:20
Stskeepsqgil: in other words, it is just a tactic where they lessen their freedoms in exchange for more open format.. which isn't exactly like GNU :P08:21
* Myrtti has a good morning, huggles everyone08:21
Myrttihello cutiepies :-)08:22
RST38hqgil: Well, maybe they bribed Stallman with some exotic tea mix =)08:22
StskeepsMyrtti: and you just wandered into a lgpl discussion :P08:22
StskeepsRST38h: that was my thought..08:23
Macernautilus takes like a minute to browse network shares08:23
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Macerwtf? :)08:23
RST38hqgil: Seriously though, it makes sense given how often manufacturer has to optimize/rewrite codecs to make them run well08:23
qgilRST38h: that too08:23
RST38hqgil: LGPL would not cut it08:23
Macerlike it just kind of sits there every time i try to use my smb share through it08:23
* Macer is thinking it's time to set up nfs on the fileserver08:23
luke-jrMacer: GNOME is unusably slow; try KDE08:23
RST38hKDE is also unusuably slow08:23
luke-jrno, KDE is usable08:23
MyrttiStskeeps: lgpl is just smooth as velvet08:24
Maceryah.. i thought kde was slower than gnome+compiz08:24
luke-jrat least until you get to 100% swap08:24
RST38hTry command line!08:24
MyrttiStskeeps: apply enough lubricant and you can shove it everywhere08:24
Macerplus kwin doesn't have a desktop cube :)08:24
Macerthe desktop cube is something that makes the people around you think you are doing important things haha08:24
qgilnow that we left behind the GPL/BSD discussion, we can embrace the GNOME/KDE debate08:24
luke-jrMacer:  it does08:25
Macerlike when you build a new kernel and they see all the cc crap scrolling by08:25
Macerdoes what?08:25
luke-jrhave the cube08:25
Macerdoes it? last i tried 4.1.whatever it didn't have one08:25
luke-jrit was new in 4.208:25
Maceroh.. they released 4.2 huh?08:25
luke-jrabout 2 months ago08:25
MyrttiMacer: compiz has some usable features as well08:25
Macerwell.. it's too late now.. :) i don't feel like switching over to kde now that i have this thing working rather well08:26
Myrttiit's not all smoke and mirrors08:26
GeneralAntillesqgil, what have you done? :P08:26
Macerother than nautilus taking a minute to read smb shares08:26
luke-jrI disable effects anyhow08:26
RST38hqgil: Isn't it too soon though? I mean, BSD/GPL thing went without a single flame08:26
MacerMyrtti: haha... usable features? :) such as what?08:26
StskeepsMacer: prolly has to search the broadcast network08:26
luke-jrtoo much latency08:26
MacerStskeeps: that kind of sucks... i guess i will just set up nfs on it08:26
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MyrttiMacer: Scale08:27
qgilThe question that really matters is: deb or rpm?08:27
luke-jrI'll care about 3D desktop when it's an augmented wearable ;)08:27
luke-jrqgil: deb or ebuild; rpm was disqualified ages ago08:27
qgilok, then... is mono evil or not?08:28
RST38hqgil: Intel says rpm.08:28
* RST38h smiles evilly08:28
luke-jrthough I must confess, I do admin a single rpm-based box stuff08:28
Myrttiand the cube itself initiates people into using multiple desktops and ctrl-alt < >08:28
luke-jrqgil: mono is useless at least08:28
Myrttiqgil: yes, it's the ultimate evil08:28
luke-jrMyrtti: hardly08:28
MacerMyrtti: ou just reminded me that i need to install flash in epiphany08:28
luke-jrthe cube limits you to 6 desktops08:28
Macer:) if i can even do that08:28
luke-jrthat's a far cry from the 16 I need08:28
Macerwtf? :)08:29
Myrttiluke-jr: true, adobe and nvidia are the true devils08:29
qgilGPLv3 helps free software at the end or not?08:29
Macergoing all johnny mnemonic or something?08:29
Macerwith vr gloves on08:29
Macerhacking a fax machine buffer08:29
qgilxorg or framebuffer?08:29
GeneralAntillesqgil's "How to Bring a Channel Down in Flames in 20 Questions or Less"? ;)08:29
RST38hqgil: The Tentacled One is our only final liberator08:29
luke-jrMacer: Work, Email, aRmagetron, Irc, Anime, Moo, plus 10 or so numbered08:29
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RST38hWhat is GPLv3 when compared to the Tentacled One?08:30
Maceryou can't do that in 4 desktops? :)08:30
luke-jrMacer: no ☹08:30
qgilok guys, as you see I need a dose of real work08:30
qgilgood morning/evening!08:30
luke-jrOS: GNU/Linux 2.6.27-gentoo-r7/x86_64 - CPU: 1 x AMD Athlon(tm) 64 Processor 3200+ (2202.764 MHz) - Processes: 238 - Uptime: 52d 9h 58m - Users: 60 - Load Average: 1.36 - Memory Usage: 4798MB/2011MB (238%)08:30
qwerty12_N800RST38h: too late, we had a fight the other day and i  shanked him08:30
RST38hqwerty: how many bonus points have you got? =)08:30
qgilah, one before before leaving: Intel or ARM?08:30
luke-jrI use too much swap :<08:30
luke-jrqgil: whatever's cheaper08:31
luke-jrnot AMD, ARM08:31
RST38hqgil: PDP11.08:31
luke-jrobviously ARM08:31
luke-jrx86 sucks08:31
GeneralAntillesWow, creepy, my desktop and my tablet have nearly the same uptime.08:31
luke-jrthough I like MIPS a bit08:31
qwerty12_N800RST38h: not much for  a big fucker :(08:31
RST38hqgil: had wonderful instruction set08:31
luke-jrmainly just because I actually know MIPS ASM08:31
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luke-jror did a few months ago08:31
luke-jrnot sure I remember it now08:31
* qgil thinks I could copy&paste this for the Technology team to drive the strategy of Maemo SW in the following years :P08:32
GeneralAntillesqgil, Atom or Maemo is going to die. ;)08:32
luke-jrqgil: oh, you're Nokia08:32
luke-jrqgil: please hire someone to write a decent GPS integration08:32
Pingermaemo5 in armel target, the hildon UI doesn't come up, what do i do08:32
luke-jrqgil: possibly me, but I don't really have time for stuff these days08:33
qgilluke-jr: that's sad08:33
GeneralAntillesPinger, see the known issues in the release notes. ;)08:33
Pingeri got it, thanks08:34
luke-jrqgil: I'm thinking something that is constantly keeping track of access point locations (triangulating them with GPS), using them for positioning when GPS isn't synced yet, queuing IMs with ETA till next AP (when a route is known), etc08:35
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PingerGeneralAntilles: armel development environment only for cross-compilation, why not run applicaions08:38
GeneralAntillesPinger, I guess because it's not ready yet.08:38
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luke-jrA lot of that "*Provided by Nokia closed binaries" sounds like it can be replaced with Decibel easily08:40
Pingeroh, i think maemo 5 will support UI applications in next release08:40
Macerhm. it has to be the cheap 5 port switch i have this damn thing hooked up to08:40
Maceri need to get rid of that thing :)08:40
Macerit seems to be going 100mbit speeds...i'm only getting 9MB/s08:41
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adeelis there any way to get the N810 to boot faster? would reflashing with a custom image help?08:54
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Stskeepsadeel: their 30 second boot isn't bad at all, really08:56
qgilX-Fade & jeremiah_ , morning  :) seems to be the current best kept secret08:57
timelE61iadeel: you can try booting from mmc08:57
qgilwhat about writing an announcement welcoming packages?08:57
adeelStskeeps, yeah i know, i just want to enable it so i can turn it on/off frequently without the delay08:57
timelE61iQgil: you really like trying to spread secrets08:57
qgiland then linking to it at maemo-developers and ITt?08:57
adeeltimelE61i, why would boot from MMC be faster than onboard flash?08:57
timelE61iDid i say it would be?08:58
Stskeepsadeel: ah, i would really say just lock the screen08:58
Stskeepsturning it off and then on when you want to use it is a waste of battery08:58
timelE61iPersonally, i just use offlinemode+screen lock08:58
adeelStskeeps, yeah i'll probably do that...but i was looking to make the battery last longer08:58
adeeltimelE61i, what's offlinemode ?08:59
qgilunless someone beats me, I will announce that today before going back home08:59
timelE61iTurn down the screen brightness...08:59
qgil(please, beat me)  :)08:59
adeelah, i did that anyway08:59
timelE61iQgil: um, keep it short?08:59
Stskeepsadeel: well, this isn't a traditional x86 laptop, when the tablet isn't doing anything, it is effectively asleep when in offline mode + locked screen08:59
adeeltimelE61i, what was the battery life like once you did that? is it roughly the 7 hours it reports?08:59
timelE61iI have a doc to write, no time to proof another announce08:59
Corsacthe repository seems quite empty08:59
Stskeepsqgil: not sure autobuilder is up yet though09:00
* timelE61i shrugs09:00
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adeelStskeeps, yeah, but i was hoping for around that much battery life09:00
Stskeepsadeel: battery life can be quite high if you tame it really :P09:01
adeelStskeeps, interesting....have you tried building your own image via the SDK?09:01
adeelby any chance that is09:01
Stskeepsadeel: to construct your own armel diablo image is non-trivial :)09:01
Corsacanyway freemantle won't run on n8x0, so…09:02
adeelStskeeps, well i'm a fairly seasoned linux user09:02
adeelif the instructions are half decent, i should be able to do it without a major headache09:02
Stskeepsadeel: yeah, and i've been breathing unix since i was 7, but it is still non-trivial to me :)09:02
Stskeepsadeel: closest thing you get is stuff like Mer, and Fremantle on Beagleboard09:03
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qgiltimelE61i: "The Fremantle extras-devel repository is open for direct package uploads. Developers trying out the Maemo 5 Alpha SDK are encouraged to upload their packages there to start creating an inventory of Fremantle applications and common libraries. This repository of unstable and untested software will encourage feedback from users of the SDK and compatible OMAP3 hardware."09:03
Pavlovwhats the point of uploading stuff you can't really test?09:04
qwerty12_N800" encourage feedback from users of the SDK and compatible OMAP3 hardware."09:04
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StskeepsPavlov: maemo on beagleboard exists and SDK is fairly good09:04
qgilStskeeps: about autobuilder, I think the priority now is that developers create packages and put them in the same place, as we are starting to see screenshots and videos here and there, some of them talking about activating Diablo repos to get packages...09:04
Stskeepsqgil: yeah, true09:04
StskeepsPavlov: also Mer can take the central fremantle libraries too09:05
qwerty12_N800I hope people don't upload free stuff as non-free.09:05
Corsacand one could try on the touch book09:05
adeelStskeeps, yeah, i've done some stuff with beagleboards and whatnot...done a decent amount of embedded x86 & arm dev before...just need a semi-complete sdk and it should be fairly trivial09:05
Corsacqwerty12_N800: isn't there some kind of NEW queue?09:05
qgilStskeeps: maybe we can just decide on the repo plan, and create extras-experimental for those direct uploads, letting extras-devel for the autobuilder access, as usual09:05
qgilactually I'm going to compile this piece of chat in an answer to the "Fremantle extras" thread09:06
Stskeepsadeel: just keep in mind you don't have the source packages or even binary packages for a lot of stuff that's on the actual jffs2 .. i've been buried in this stuff for quite a while09:06
hahlowhere is meizi_irkki?09:06
qwerty12_N800Corsac: with diablo & chinook, you have free which goes through the autobuilder and non-free which is for direct deb uploads. As you can see, non-free isn't really for gnu/bsd etc licenced stuff :)09:06
qgilPavlov: well, people like me can test09:06
Pavlovqgil: ;)09:06
Stskeepshahlo: he was here yesterday09:07
hahlook good09:07
Stskeepsadeel: if you truely want to work on performance, boot time, etc, come and help out with Mer instead. goal is both fremantle components for n8x0 and Diablo on steroids.09:08
adeelStskeeps, so long as it exists (in binary form at the least) i can do it09:08
GeneralAntillesqgil, the repo isn't much use without an autobuilder. ;)09:08
Stskeepsadeel: it has more purpose, - you cannot easily distribute the fruits of your work otherwise09:08
adeelStskeeps, i'd love to help out, and probably will where i can, but i'm pretty strapped for time between the current 2 projects i'm working on09:08
qgilGeneralAntilles: why not09:08
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GeneralAntillesqgil, because there's no way to get things in there. ;)09:08
GeneralAntillesI'm sure X-Fade and jeremiah_ will make an announcement when things are actually usable.09:09
qgilif you allow direct upload then you can09:09
qwerty12_N800adeel: start with reading the modifying_the_root_image page on wiki09:09
Stskeepsadeel: i have masters thesis work, parttime work, mer and fiancee to juggle, heh :)09:09
GeneralAntillesqgil, then we'll have a bunch of source-less free packages in there.09:09
GeneralAntillesand we'll have to do a purge at some point.09:09
qwerty12_N800qgil: I hope with source then for free stuff then. Don't repeat the chinook mistake please.09:09
qgilok, I'll shut up then  :)09:10
adeelStskeeps, heh, i have 2, $900,000 projects i'm spearheading at the moment09:10
GeneralAntillesqgil, alternatively, push some internals to help out with the autobuilder. ;)09:10
adeelqwerty12_N800, thanks, i'll take a gander at it soon09:10
qgilthe mistake I want to avoid is to start seeing debs and repos and instructions to activate old repos...09:10
qgilGeneralAntilles: we are paying a full time role with an NDA09:11
adeelthe only real flaw, imho, about the N810 is that it's debian based09:11
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: saw ?09:11
qgilhe could even come to Helsinki if we wants09:11
Stskeepsadeel: we do have gentoo ports too..09:11
adeelStskeeps, really? where?09:11
GeneralAntillesqgil, sure, but it takes a little while to familiarize with the system.09:11
adeel(i'm a gentoo fanboy)09:11
qgilsure, I'm not complaining09:11
Stskeepsadeel: slontapamus (sp) and fauxmight is working on it .. check and search gentoo09:12
Corsacadeel: what about global warming!09:12
qgilI just thought it was a good idea to allow a centralized repo for direct uploads now09:12
adeelCorsac, that's my kid-to-be's problem =cp09:12
qgilso developers don't start feeling tempted of doing otherwsie09:12
GeneralAntillesqgil, yeah, we need it, but I don't want to see the mess with missing sources happen again.09:12
qgilGeneralAntilles: fair enough09:12
GeneralAntillesI don't think external repos popping up are going to be a big issue in the short term.09:13
Stskeepsadeel: but in honesty, it's better we focus efforts on getting the n8x0 in sync functionally with fremantle and such, than tinkering with other OS'es (crux linux, gentoo, debian, ubuntu) .. :P09:13
adeelStskeeps, i came across a couple of (old) doc's on scratchbox on gentoo via google...and even found the ebuild in the sunrise overlay09:13
timelE61ipavlov: works in x8609:13
GeneralAntilles(one to two weeks)09:13
adeelStskeeps, hehe i agree09:13
adeelStskeeps, but i like doing everything with gentoo, even if it means i have to spin my wheels for a while09:13
timelE61iQgil "for" in the first sentence is wrong09:13
timelE61iagreement issue09:13
Stskeeps <- dear god09:14
timelE61iSecond sentence is too long :)09:14
GeneralAntillesOh god! The robots are invading. D:09:14
timelE61iPavlov: people can test on beagleboard09:14
GeneralAntillesor a Pandora!09:14
GeneralAntilleswait. . . .09:15
RST38hSts: There is a propeller at the top keeping the whole thing afloat09:15
GeneralAntillesYou could probably test on an Archos 5, too, if you were really determined.09:15
adeelStskeeps, do you have any links that you can point me to in regards to Mer/freemantle?09:15
GeneralAntillesPlus the Overo, and the Zoom09:15
GeneralAntillesadeel, "Fremantle". ;)09:15
Stskeepsadeel: ,
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adeelStskeeps, ah ok, i read that earlier today...think it's time for me to dust off the old beagleboard09:16
timelE61iqGil: but if the autobuilder isn't in the right state, then hold off on the announcement09:16
Stskeepshehe, i have one sitting next to me09:16
StskeepsMer runs on there too :)09:16
Stskeeps(Fremantle does too, obviously)09:16
qwerty12_N800GeneralAntilles: Anyone who buys an Archos hoping to be able to run programs on it recieves an "Ha-ha!" from me09:17
qgiltimelE61i: now things are clear and I won't announce anything  :)09:17
GeneralAntillesX-Fade and Ed are the ones who'll need to kick the autobuilder into shape (it may be down to Ed, actually)09:17
GeneralAntillesNeed to poke around to figure out what the status is.09:17
* GeneralAntilles ponders another swing at kicking his Beagle into shape.09:18
timelE61iok. Until next week :)09:18
Pavlovare there install instructions for putting fremantle on a beagle board?09:18
StskeepsPavlov: maemo-beagle.garage.maemo.org09:19
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Stskeepsit'll get updated for alpha sdk soon enough though09:19
adeelStskeeps, i'd be more enthused about Mer if it was gentoo based rather than debian =cp09:19
Stskeepsadeel: worse, it's ubuntu based :P09:20
adeelStskeeps, haha, same difference to me09:20
Stskeepsadeel: also, gentoo compilation times break most initial developers..09:20
* GeneralAntilles kicks the cat off the desk for the Beagle.09:20
adeelStskeeps, eh, you don't need to give out the stage1's to can have your full base system compiled into a stage3 and give that out09:20
adeelStskeeps, also, i don't want dev's on my project who don't know how to compile09:21
adeelor are afraid of it09:21
qwerty12_N800adeel: people like to install more apps than what is given usually09:21
adeelqwerty12_N800, yeah, but it's a base/starting point09:21
adeelqwerty12_N800, apt, imho, is a package manager that is very lacking09:21
Stskeepsadeel: yeah, i can dislike apt at times too but it works atm :P09:22
qwerty12_N800I like packaging but do find apt annoying, agreed. But at least it doesn't make you compile your stuff :)09:22
adeelqwerty12_N800, i can get gentoo to go binary as well09:23
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adeelall you need is to set a BINHOST environment variable and pass the -K option to emerge, and it's apt++09:23
qwerty12_N800ah, cool. I was under the (false, now it seems) impression it was source only09:24
adeelbut the real kicker for me is the rational logic applied in the gentoo base system that i've yet to find duplicated in other distro's...but maybe that's just me09:24
vasily_pupkinanubody knows, default maemo build builede with -Os flags or no?09:24
adeelsee, those (^^) questions would disappear09:24
adeelwith a gentoo based system09:24
adeelvasily_pupkin, i'd assume they were09:24
qwerty12_N800-O2 is preferred over -Os afaik09:25
Stskeepsvasily_pupkin: -Os also has the consequence of taking more memory09:25
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Stskeepsthey have jffs2 so Os doesn't matter -that- much09:25
Stskeepsalso, -mthumb09:25
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adeelqwerty12_N800, -Os, iirc, automatically invokes -O2 and some other stuff09:25
vasily_pupkinabout 60M of memory used by start..09:25
Maceri think compiz is going to make this fucking gpu melt in this thing09:25
Macerjust like the other one blew up on me :)09:25
vasily_pupkinim shoked09:26
Macerbecause of vista09:26
Stskeepsvasily_pupkin: only?09:26
Stskeepsvasily_pupkin: keep in mind it preloads gtk and shared the libraries in shared memory etc09:26
vasily_pupkini discover, that 2-3 gui applications - maximum value :)09:26
Stskeepsvasily_pupkin: did you enable swap?09:27
Stskeeps / virtual memory09:27
vasily_pupkinno yet09:27
Macerawesome. i think i'm done with this box :) i can set it up somewhere now09:27
Stskeepsit's worth it.09:27
qwerty12_N800adeel: dunno, not up to date with my cflags :), but i think i read in the manpage that -Os just optimises for size, not speed so I dunno if -o2 is activated09:27
Macerwith its encrypted hard drive that requires typing in a whole sentence to boot haha09:27
adeelqwerty12_N800, from the GCC 4.3 manual, Optimize for size. -Os enables all -O2 optimizations that do not typically increase code size. It also performs further optimizations designed to reduce code size.09:27
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vasily_pupkinwith -Os my old gentoo-based T21 works much better than with -O209:28
adeelit does disable some stuff though....e.g. -falign-functions09:28
adeelvasily_pupkin, i know for gentoo that -Os is preferred over -O2/O309:28
neatojonesIs iTT down?09:28
Stskeepsneatojones: WORKSFORME09:28
neatojonesweird.  I can't connect to it.09:29
vasily_pupkincan i build with gentoo same system, as maemo? with hildon/etc?09:29
Macerwhat term does gnome use?09:29
Macerit just says "Terminal" heh09:30
vasily_pupkin(not writing ebuild hy myself)09:30
adeelvasily_pupkin, i don't think there are the ebuilds for all those things09:30
adeelvasily_pupkin, writing them shouldn't be too hard09:30
vasily_pupkinI know, but time..09:30
adeelall depends on how broken their ./configure stuff is09:30
adeelor if they use autotools at all09:30
adeelStskeeps, how does Mer compare with the stock OS2008?09:31
Macerwell.. looks like i'm debian for life now if it's linux :)09:32
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Stskeepsadeel: grab a vmdk and check it out.. but we still have a way to go09:35
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adeelMacer, you'll probably change you mind once you actually start using debian =cp09:35
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adeelStskeeps, interesting, i'll check that out09:35
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Stskeeps(yes, it's portable)09:36
adeeli think it'd be pretty cool if someone was to port the x264 code to the omap processor via the dsp09:36
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adeelStskeeps, does maemo use scratchbox1 or 2?09:44
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Stskeepsadeel: both really09:45
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Stskeepsthere's maemo sdk and maemo sdk+09:45
adeeli just found the sdk+09:45
adeelis one better than the other?09:45
Stskeepsi still think sb2 has some quirks :/09:45
Stskeepsbut sb1 is also a bit awkward09:46
adeelany show stoppers for sb2?09:46
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Stskeepsnot sure.. there was some issue that upset me09:46
adeelhmmm...well, it seems that this might be a bigger project than i can chew at the moment09:47
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qwerty12thanks, stupid computer keeps locking up on me :/09:51
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Stskeepsmornin herzi, _|Nix|_10:00
herzihej Stskeeps10:00
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Macerwtf.. 8.4MB/s from a gbit?10:12
Macerwhat the HELL is going on here? :)10:12
Maceri need to get rid of this switch ... i think it's about that time10:12
Macerlet me see if the 24port does a little better10:13
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L0cutus 'giorno10:26
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andre__hmm, why does redirect to bugzilla?10:30
Stskeepsit's a bug? :>10:31
Stskeeps(happens for me too)10:31
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croppaIs it possiable to have Maemo Mapper default to auto centre Lat/Lon?11:31
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GeneralAntillescroppa, check the prefs?11:33
RST38hit is saved11:33
RST38hthe problem is that as soon as you touch the screen, the auto center mode is off11:33
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croppaYes that is the problem it turns off :-(11:37
croppaI thought there may be a config file that I could change11:37
johnxcan't you turn it back on by a button press?11:37
croppaYes but I would like it on all of the time11:38
GeneralAntillesRST38h, dpad-center.11:38
GeneralAntillesOr you can pick whichever button suits you in prefs.11:38
Stskeepsmorning johnc11:38
johnxhot sauce!11:39
johnxis wazd through the roof? :)11:39
Stskeepsi haven't spoken to him yet :(11:39
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johnxhe needs to steal the laptop back from his sister :>11:39
Stskeepsalso i just built marquee-plugins11:40
Stskeepsok, building for armel still11:40
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Myrtti♥ segphault11:45
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Stskeepsjohnx: but heads up: h-d is broken atm :P11:54
johnxok, got the message on jaiku/rss ;)11:57
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*** GeneralAntilles changes topic to "Sprint review in #maemo-meeting @ 1400 UTC today! | Welcome to #maemo | | Maemo Community Council | |"12:05
JaffaMorning, all12:06
Stskeepsmorning jaffa12:06
GeneralAntillesHi, Jaffa.12:06
* Myrtti tickles Jaffa 12:07
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GeneralAntillesDamn, you, andre__!12:13
andre__GeneralAntilles, dss dss dss!12:14
GeneralAntillesandre__, midair collision on the wiki. :P12:14
andre__GeneralAntilles, don't touch it!12:15
andre__how could you dare?!12:15
GeneralAntillesMoved it to February where it belongs.12:16
* GeneralAntilles launches missiles at andre__.12:16
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andre__february?! a blast from the past...12:17
GeneralAntillesjeremiah_ jumped the gun on the new Sprint page. :P12:17
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GeneralAntillesqgil, ping?12:18
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timelessGeneralAntilles: fwiw, i have a 155 too12:24
timelessso if you want to proof 149.. :)12:24
* timeless works on 14812:24
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GeneralAntillestimeless, seems a little short without context.12:27
JaffaMorning, all12:29
GeneralAntillesHi, (again) Jaffa.12:30
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JaffaDid I do that?12:31
* Jaffa 's brain is fubar12:31
GeneralAntillestimeless, maybe this is a clearer sushi-belt image (CC)?
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timelessooh, i like12:32
timelessas an email, please, i'm still working on 148 :(12:32
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johnxkaiten-zushi FTW!12:36
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timelessgan: ok, i've fixed most of the things from 14812:40
timelessexcept 'largely gibberish'12:41
johnxGeneralAntilles, have you been to someplace like that?12:42
GeneralAntillesjohnx, sadly, no.12:42
GeneralAntillesI dunno if there are any around me.12:42
GeneralAntillesThe only sushi places I've been to serve you like a regular restaurant.12:42
johnxdrive over to daytona beach :)12:42
johnxalternatively airline tickets aren't too expensive right now :>12:43
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GeneralAntillestimeless, I still don't know what you're too far from the canyon walls for.12:43
GeneralAntillesTo climb up or to call for help?12:43
GeneralAntilles(for somebody to hear you)12:43
timelessto climb up12:44
GeneralAntillestimeless, OK, then say so. ;)12:44
timelesssomeone hears you when they see the dialog and cut the rope by clicking something12:44
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GeneralAntilles"Unfortunately, you're too far below the bridge and away from the canyon walls to climb up,"12:44
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timelessreload, should be fixed12:45
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GeneralAntilles"C++ introduced a feature where you could have a base object which defined code for certain actions and specified certain actions also had to have code"12:46
GeneralAntillesThat doesn't make sense to me.12:46
timelessis his generic explanation better?12:46
GeneralAntillesSpecifically, it's this part that sounds like gibberish: "specified certain actions also had to have code"12:47
timelessi'm considering linking to it12:47
timelesspromised that certain actions would be actionable12:48
* timeless frowns12:48
timelessit's hard to write a useful decription12:48
GeneralAntilles"specified that certain actions" ?12:49
GeneralAntillesAlso, yes, you should probably link to that description.12:49
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danielwilmshey, I would like to make a proposal for the GSoC, but as I'm quite new here I don't know if the idea already came up once. What about a client for a social app, which implents features based on the OpenSocial API?? Any comments on that??12:57
GeneralAntillesHi, danielwilms. :)12:57
danielwilmshi :)12:58
GeneralAntillesI think this is the complete list:
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GeneralAntillesIf it's not on there, feel free to add it.12:58
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GeneralAntillesMyrtti, the subpages are a nice thing to have on. Thanks for talking us into it. ;)13:20
MyrttiGeneralAntilles: :-) hehe, np13:20
Stskeeps <- curious13:22
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lcukwow Stskeeps i could see liqbase running nicely on there13:23
Stskeepslcuk: but it also seems like a properitary system from hell13:23
MyrttiGeneralAntilles: it actually took me a while to understand why the breadcrumbs didn't show up13:23
lcukhack the planet!13:23
Myrttifor some odd reason I just assumed it would be magically on13:24
* lcuk wants to see mer logo (being held up by tux) on his disposable lighter asap13:24
* lcuk was saving up Myrtti's breadcrumbs to use with a bacon sandwich13:24
* johnx is sold on that tabletbook thing if they can actually ship it13:26
GeneralAntillesI wish it had just a little more built-in.13:26
lcukoh hi johnx13:26
johnxhey lcuk13:27
johnxheh...not gonna preorder the touchbook though. had enough of that :)13:28
GeneralAntillesAlso: OMAP3540 would be awesome.13:29
lcukwhich is the touchbook13:29
GeneralAntillesBetter yet: OMAP374013:29
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* lcuk doesn't look forward to new hardware. better to make use of whats in your hand now and be surprised by the improvements in future13:29
johnxlcuk, netbook with detachable keyboard13:29
lcukahhh the one with the big spikes13:29
johnxyup :D13:29
lcuk"well bond, we took a regular keyboard and *swueshhhhhhh* we made it into a deadly weapon for killing 2 thugs with"13:30
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johnxI like the 10-15 hours worth of battery in the keyboard: "What can we do to make the keyboard heavy enough that this thing won't just tip over?" "Let's shove it full of batteries!"13:30
lcukwhats battery like with just the display13:31
johnx3-4 hours13:31
johnxcode for: 2-3 hours :>13:31
lcukor 1-2 with flash enabled13:31
lcukand no adblock :P13:31
johnxmy system: flash ads are blocked. animated ads and ads that try and look like dialog boxes get the whole domain blacklisted13:32
johnxlater lcuk13:32
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GeneralAntillesI wonder how big the battery in the tablet part is.13:33
GeneralAntillesand I wonder how good the power saving is on whatever it is their running.13:33
GeneralAntillesWho wants to bet Maemo would get better battery life out of that thing?13:34
johnxthe only thing I worry about is power saving on the wifi chipset13:34
GeneralAntillesIt's USB, right?13:34
johnxother than that it will have all the advantages of Nokia's powersaving tricks13:34
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johnxyeah, looks USB13:36
GeneralAntillesHow many of those have made it into linux-omap proper?13:36
johnxfor the omap3 I thought most have13:36
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johnxthere are tricks in userland too of course, but angstrom is fairly concerned about that stuff as well13:37
GeneralAntillesI wonder how good the powersaving on USB WiFi sticks is.13:38
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johnxprobably between bad and awful :>13:38
GeneralAntillesAlternatively, you could get somebody to build an SPI module for you.13:38
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GeneralAntillesIt's is basically a Beagle Board after all.13:39
GeneralAntillesThe pins are easy to get to.13:39
johnxThere's probably at least one USB wifi chipset with decent powersavings support ...13:40
* johnx googles13:40
GeneralAntillesI really want to know how big the battery is.13:40
GeneralAntillesIt'd be interesting to see what sort of impact a big backlight like that has.13:41
johnxlots, but there's not much you can do about that :/13:42
johnxthe OLPC screen would be awesome for that...13:42
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johnxI want a dual-mode eInk / LCD screen...13:45
johnxnot exactly sure how it would work of course13:45
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GeneralAntillesLED backlighting would help a bit.13:45
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johnxis that screen not LED backlit?!13:46
GeneralAntillesSeems unlikely, but good point.13:46
GeneralAntillesI dunno.13:46
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johnxmy hopes about wifi PSM in linux with a usb wifi adapter are diminishing rapidly :/14:03
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johnxhey lardman :)14:08
lardmanhey johnx14:09
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johnxtimelE61i, because all of the drivers I've looked at so far don't support it. Do you know of one that does?14:10
lardmanhello all14:10
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lardmanhmm, omweather reckons it will snow here today14:11
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johnxit's pretty pessimistic about that kind of thing14:11
lardmanyeah, I'd prefer to link into something like xcweather14:12
lardmanbut other things to do as ever :)14:12
lardmanjohnx: so what's the current status with the Pandora14:12
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johnxlardman, cases are ready for production after final testing, mk4 board is ready to go14:13
lardmananother board rev?14:13
GeneralAntillesThey want all of lardman's money.14:13
johnxseems they just need to push it through CE/FCC testing14:13
lardmanGeneralAntilles: I'm out14:13
johnxreally though, what could possibly go wrong? :D14:13
johnxI'm taking the worried yet hopeful path :)14:14
lardmanthe lack of cc killed it for me, otherwise I'd probably be in the same boat14:14
lardmanthough they really are pushing back into n900 release terrotory, and I know which I'd prefer (not being a gamer)14:15
lardmanyeah, if I'd written that I'd have left it alone :D14:15
GeneralAntillesFinger usage seems like it would be impossible on the Pandora.14:16
GeneralAntillesI don't much love that form factor.14:16
lardmanwell depends on your ui14:16
lardmanI quite like clamshells, shame they didn't go for a larger screen though14:16
johnxGeneralAntilles, I'd assume it'll be similar to the "not perfect for fingers, but not too bad"14:16
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lardmanI need some web scraping help14:20
lardmanmust send an email to the list this evening14:20
lcukhave you found out the RX-71 includes a scratch n sniff module?14:21
lcuklardman, wget, parse profit14:22
lcuklardman, wget, parse, ???, profit      even14:22
RST38hlcuk: RX-71 runs on mushrooms14:22
RST38hIt is the ultimate green gadget14:22
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lardmanlcuk: yeah I could do it, but don't have a lot of time, more hands make light work, etc14:23
lcuknot exactly hand held form factor14:23
timelE61isorry, i don't believe in software that requires root :)14:23
RST38hlcuk: Photoshop.14:23
johnxlcuk, counterpoint:
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woglindelcuk fotoshop rulez14:24
RST38hjohnx: UFOs stealing mushrooms, yeeaaaaaaa14:24
* lardman dislikes mushrooms14:24
GeneralAntillesBoo, lardman!14:24
GeneralAntillesYou lost my vote. :P14:24
woglindelardman even on pizza?14:24
lardmanI've not put myself forward :p14:25
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lardmanwoglinde: nah, I just don't like them at all14:25
* johnx puts lardman forward, then doesn't vote for him for not liking mushrooms14:25
lardmanok in small quantities I suppose, but I don't like the taste14:25
lcukmushrooms  make a nice counterpoint to bacon on a sunday fryup14:26
lcukmakes you feel wholesome and good by leaving something on your plate14:26
lcuk"look, i am on a diet, i didnt eat all my fryup!"14:26
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lardmaneggs are a nice counterpoint, and fried bread :)14:27
aquatixand fried candybars?14:27
lardmanI tend to leave the shrivelled tomato :)14:27
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lardmanaquatix: deep-fried? They only do that in the North, ask lcuk :D14:27
aquatixyep, weirdos ;)14:27
lcukaquatix, dont talk silly, you dont have fried candy for breakfast, thats lunch (and normally its battered and deep fried)14:28
aquatixick anyway14:28
lardmanaquatix: you need the energy to wield a pick axe, in the coal mines14:28
lcukthey do deep fried bananas14:28
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lardmanlcuk: does the good and bad there cancel out?14:29
* lcuk has never eaten one14:29
lcuki dunno lol, its scary the sort of stuff chip shop owners are willing to throw in the friers14:29
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lardmanlol, I watched 5th Gear the other day and a Top Gun instructor said to eat bananas before flying, as they taste the same coming up as going down :D14:30
lardmanlcuk: cockroaches?14:30
lcuklol prolly14:30
lardmanor rats of course, yuck14:30
lardmanyuck for cockroaches too, lest anyone get the wrong idea14:31
lcuklet me clear one thing up, the rats aren't fried on purpose.  they just sorts fall in amongst the chips14:31
* lcuk feels sick just typing that14:31
aquatixcockroaches are full of proteins14:31
lardmanand crunchy too, I imagine14:31
johnxlcuk, yeah, normally they cost extra14:31
woglindehe chickenfeet14:32
lcukaquatix, lots of things are, but that doesnt mean we eat em14:32
aquatixmaybe we should ;)14:32
lcukwe might have to14:32
lcukanyway, bbs, all this  talk of food has made me hungry14:32
* lardman wonders what he ate in India....14:32
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lcuklardman, good job you didnt go to japan, some of the food might be able to tell you14:33
lcuk(i think its japan anyway, apologies if not)14:33
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lardmanKorea more like14:33
lardmanall tastes good with Korean Gin14:34
johnxthey do some quite 'raw' sashimi in certain places, but it's by no means common14:34
lardmansounds ok to me14:34
johnxall yours then, freaks me out a little too much14:35
johnxI am a big fan of cooking food at the table though14:35
johnxwould be a lawsuit waiting to happen in the US though :/14:35
lardmanthough those tables are bad news, I've got long legs!14:35
johnxme too, it's not too bad14:35
lardmanI'd not done much seiza practice back then14:36
GeneralAntillesI went to a Japanese place where they did the whole cook at the table deal14:36
GeneralAntillesOur chef was a white guy who thought he was Japanese.14:36
johnxlardman, ah, only been to one place that was seiza style14:37
johnxGeneralAntilles, ah, but here they let *you* cook at your own table :)14:37
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GeneralAntillesjohnx, why the hell are you at a restaurant then? :P14:37
lardmanjohnx: I've only really been to Japanese places in Korea, and they all sat you seiza - painful after a couple of hours!14:37
johnxlardman, painful after 15 minutes! I sat crosslegged. If I'm at a restaurant I'll sit how I feel like, kthx :)14:38
lardmanif you sit long enough you can't feel it anymore, until you get cramp that is :D14:38
johnxor try to stand up with your foot the wrong way and break your ankle (never happened to me)14:39
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lardmansurely an ushiro ukemi to standing position, and hope you don't trip over the table behind you :)14:40
johnxGeneralAntilles, eh, it's kinda fun for cooking strips of raw meat or doing nabe (kinda a shared soup pot thing)14:40
GeneralAntillesBleh, my inbox is back over 2000.14:42
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johnxlardman, ahaha, understood the first word but had to google :)14:43
johnxyeah, that's how to *really* impress people here :>14:43
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lardmanukemi's probably wrong as you're already sat down, but my Japanese is somewhat limited to certain terminology14:44
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johnxeh, mine's limited by not being good at it :P14:45
ShadowJKjohnx, you've done something wrong14:45
lardmanI need to remember certain phrases so I know where I'm going to be hit - good motivation factor :)14:45
ShadowJKthe trick is to not learn enough to realize how bad you are at it14:45
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johnxShadowJK, Japanese is special in that you *always* know you're no good at it. Even native speakers are challenged by the tens of thousands of Kanji...14:46
johnxlardman, I learned based on being able to order food: A *very* good motivator14:46
johnxspeak or starve :)14:46
GeneralAntillesAnother day waiting for UPS.14:47
lardmanwhat are you waiting for?14:48
ShadowJKOh yeah. It was on the news how the parliament held a reading comprehension test for the prime minister14:48
GeneralAntillesMy repaired Xbox.14:48
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lardmanah, did you say that above, I seem to remember XBox14:48
GeneralAntilleslardman, days ago.14:49
lardmanmemory of a goldfish14:49
lardmanin that case ;)14:49
GeneralAntillesSo, lardman, I'm sending out your nomination email tomorrow.14:49
GeneralAntillesYou have 24 hours to do it yourself or kill me. :P14:49
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lardmanwell if you can think of something nice to say about me please be my guest ;14:50
lcuk"lardman, the only redshirt to ever return from an away mission"14:50
lardmanyeah, they do that to confuse you though, then they die later in the program14:51
GeneralAntilleslcuk, either that or he's an impostor.14:51
lardmanmakes it cheaper, fewer extras needed14:51
lcukspeaking of which, did anyone get voice recording working with gstreamer - i know its possible but ive not encountered the code14:51
lardmanisn't that how the recorder app works?14:52
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* GeneralAntilles wishes Dell would ship his Mini 9.14:52
lcukholding up the nokia "captians log, stardate 5th march, ....."14:52
johnxGeneralAntilles, augh. a mini9?14:52
* lardman pops out to buy some Ethernet cable, bbiam14:52
GeneralAntillesjohnx, it was cheap.14:52
lcukstrange lunch you have in the south14:52
johnxGeneralAntilles, I guess the only important questions is, have you typed on one yet?14:53
GeneralAntillesjohnx, no, but fullsize laptop keyboards piss me off.14:53
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lcuki guess he will find out soon14:53
GeneralAntillesSome I'm OK with whatever.14:54
lcukmind you, all these tiny keyboards are just a throwback to my zx spectrum14:54
johnxI wish I had been around to steer you towards an hp...14:54
GeneralAntillesI can just set up Synergy at my desk.14:54
GeneralAntillesjohnx, yeah, but for as cheap as I got the Mini 9?14:54
johnxhard to put a price on being able to type without hurting yourself...14:54
GeneralAntillesjohnx, no, it's really easy.14:55
lcukyou haven't *got* your mini 9 yet14:55
johnxthe base HP is like $38014:55
GeneralAntillesMy cash is limited. :P14:55
GeneralAntillesYeah, I paid $260 for 8GB/1GB (shipping, tax)14:55
lcukthat much just for shipping?14:55
lcukhow much was the computer14:55
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johnxI suppose if you really don't intend to be typing on it...though I can't picture many uses for a computer that don't involve typing...14:56
GeneralAntillesShipping and tax were about $2514:56
woglindethis means we get the flash plugin for other archs too?14:57
lcukjohnx, n80014:57
ShadowJKwoglinde, I read the headline and my first though was "argh, can't they kill flash lite already"14:57
johnxlcuk, I'm constantly mashing on that OSK...\14:57
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ShadowJKI read on and indeed flash lite is mentioned :)14:58
ShadowJKI think flash lite is available for quite a few more platforms14:58
ShadowJKThe chinese MIPS-based netbooks have it, iirc14:58
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woglindehm how did the chinese managed this14:59
glasslicensed flashlite from adobe? easy enough to do, no? it's on a gazillion mobile phones for crap like animated screensavers15:00
johnxheh. my phone has it too :)15:00
johnxbest use of flash ever is showing me a different mixed drink every time I open my phone15:00
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johnxeventually I realized it was torturing me when I was at work and switched to a static background15:01
GeneralAntillesjohnx, the same configuration from HP is $120 more expensive15:01
GeneralAntillesJust aint gonna happen.15:02
johnxI guess it totally depends on priorities, but having tried both I'm holding out till i have the cash for the HP15:02
woglindehm the touchbook will be 250 bucks15:03
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woglindebut not seperate videooutput yet15:03
lardmanlcuk: yeah, pretty chewy15:03
* ShadowJK saw the HP mini thing with VIA cpu advertised for 299E (the 22%VAT incl.)15:03
woglindewithout company15:04
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johnxon the preorder page they want $300 in tablet form and $400 in netbook form15:05
* Stskeeps ponders where wazd is15:05
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* GeneralAntilles is getting popups on every stupid site he goes to.15:05
lardmanStskeeps: listening to music via a2dp ;)15:05
Stskeepslardman: possibly15:05
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ShadowJKI'd buy that for 40015:05
RST38hGeneral: run HijackThis RIGHT NOW15:07
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woglindehm I could sware it were lower then 39915:09
johnxmaybe they had to up the price to cover costs? or maybe they started with a lower price to build buzz?15:10
woglindebut 400 is good15:10
woglindewith the cheaper dollar15:10
johnxyeah, I'll be really tempted once this turns up as an actualy device and once someone somewhat reputable tells me the hardware isn't horribly b0rken :)15:11
ShadowJKI'd probably get it for the formfactor regardless of what's inside ;)15:11
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timelE61iandre: ping15:12
* timelE61i hates bug hot potato15:12
andre__timelE61i, pong15:12
lardmanI like the size of that UMID M1 thing15:13
woglindebut wahtever you are going to buy15:13
woglindedont bye a device with gma500 video card15:13
GeneralAntillesBleh, Atom.15:13
johnxShadowJK, I just want someone to tell me "Boots up, seems to work, doesn't feel like it's going to break."15:13
GeneralAntilles"A gui in which an experienced computer user doesn't understand how to close a dialog is bad"15:14
GeneralAntillesI find this claim to be suspect.15:14
RST38hreal good gui won't have dialogs!15:14
GeneralAntillesExperienced computer users are frequently too set in their ways.15:15
RST38hit will have a single screen with lots of little knobs buttons and checkboxes15:15
RST38hlike one of those ancient analogue synthesizers15:15
GeneralAntillesThe RX-71 is just covered in pots.15:15
ShadowJKand new computer users can't see through all the theming and crud and realize that there might be multiple windows on the screen, and that the new text that just appeared isn't to be read as part of the document they were just writing15:16
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lardmantime to go chew some more cable15:20
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RST38hhaving said that, that fremantle UI does look like mess right now15:21
ccookeRST38h: it's fragmentary. I have to say I like the concepts they appear to be using15:22
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johnxdialogs at the bottom look semi-ugly but they are really nice for thumb use15:23
* RST38h does not see any thought out concepts yet, at least not at the screenshots15:23
johnxI would imagine, especially on a device with the keyboard slid down15:23
GeneralAntillesIt's a framework for application developers to start using.15:23
GeneralAntillesNot a final UI.15:23
johnxI think the final GUI will be pretty close in concept15:24
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johnxthey're probably holding back on a lot of theming stuff though that's either not ready or top secret15:24
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RST38hjohnx: I am kinda concerned that they are dropping a lot of well designed S90 stuff and not adding anything equallity good15:26
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johnxRST38h, hmm? not that familiar with S90 so could you be a little more specific?15:26
RST38hjohnx: card-like windows, task manager, menus, status panel15:27
GeneralAntillesStatus panel is still there15:28
GeneralAntillesAs is the task manager.15:28
johnxwell the task manager will be there again :)15:28
RST38hyes, but all the apps appear to run full screen now15:28
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RST38hso there is no space for all the above stuff15:29
johnxthey just got rid of the sidebar15:29
RST38hbut the status bar stays in windowed mode?15:29
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johnxthe top bar? yes. have you looked at the screenshots?15:29
johnxI think a lot of this will make more sense when they make their current theme not suck15:30
RST38hI did, just wasn't sure what its functions are going to be15:30
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johnxI am eager to see what they'll do for a task switcher15:33
johnxnah, that's the chat system :P15:34
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GeneralAntillesYeah, you gotta IM the task switcher to tell it what you want to switch it. ;)15:35
olihey, I need some scp client with GUI15:35
johnx"maemo-tablet, please switch to the browser" "Sorry, I can't do that Dave."15:35
GeneralAntillesoli, sftp15:35
GeneralAntillesI'm not Dave!15:35
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oliGeneralAntilles: is there a maemo port?15:36
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* oli has an idea, he would use sshfs :-D15:39
GeneralAntillesI need another flame thread to jump myself up to 2000 Thanks15:40
AndrewFBlackGeneralAntilles want me to start the flame thread? lol15:41
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: maybe a troll account? like, darius.jack15:41
johnxmornin' AndrewFBlack15:41
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, ha!15:41
johnxpuppets: the great /. tradition15:41
* AndrewFBlack doesn't feel like working on school work today15:41
StskeepsAndrewFBlack: i'm doing a linear algebra handin15:42
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Stskeepsit's about as much fun as dancing can-can on glass pieces15:42
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, you're into some strange stuff, buddy.15:42
dnearyWhat time are we doing the sprint meeting?15:43
Stskeepsnah, just sat quite a lot of years in a gothic irc channel15:43
GeneralAntilles17 minutes15:43
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, :P15:43
dneary15 minutes?15:43
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GeneralAntillesSprint review in #maemo-meeting in 15 minutes.15:45
dneary14 by my watch15:46
woglindeGeneralAntilles what will happen there?15:46
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GeneralAntillesWebsite development.15:47
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johnxwoo! I have a good feeling about xserver-kdrive-fbdev even with its ~20 patches15:55
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woglindejohny for mer?15:55
johnxyup. mer for zaurus. the long awaited, oft delayed15:55
woglindeoh my god15:56
johnxand because I had mer on the brain I just typed apt-get install libdrm-mer instead of libdrm-dev O_o15:56
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Stskeepsjohnx: remember the url for the mer artwork?15:58
GeneralAntilles2 minutes 'til #maemo-meeting15:58
johnxStskeeps, errr...there was an official one?15:58
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Stskeepswhere's wazd now that we finally need him15:59
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johnxtreats us right for taking him for granted I guess15:59
johnxwazd, come back! we miss you!15:59
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johnxnice. do you have debs so that I could install and try and play with the layout a bit?16:06
Stskeepsi386 ones16:06
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johnxI can work with that :)16:08
Stskeepsk, sec16:08
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johnxdarn, x-k-f just failed to build :/16:08
Stskeepsjohnx: , ,
Stskeepsmarquee-plugins is also built16:10
Stskeepsi goddamnit hate that clock though16:10
johnxis there a reason we need to use it over statusbar-clock?16:10
Stskeepsno, was just a demo16:10
johnxah, then all is good :)16:10
RST38hSts: Why do you need multiple svn repos?16:16
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StskeepsRST38h: not svn, git. git does -not- support checking out subtrees16:16
RST38hsts: ah shit =(16:16
StskeepsRST38h: which makes it useless for sane projects16:16
RST38hsts: was there some reason to use it instead of svn?16:16
StskeepsRST38h: in mer's case it is good to have distributed workflow16:17
Stskeepsand a huge svn would be hell :P16:17
RST38hSts: as long as you manage it properly, will be ok16:18
StskeepsRST38h: also there's not per-directory permissions on garage16:18
woglindeanyone knosw the status about the git plugin for gforge based protals?16:18
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Maceri really do like the wifi tethering over the bt16:21
Macerseems to be a little more stable and work better16:21
Macern800 really does just kick ass sometimes16:21
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concorrwlancond reset my n80016:26
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concorranyone can helpme?16:27
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lcukok i ned help and iv been told to ask you lot16:44
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lardmanlcuk: no, we've heard bad things about you16:45
lcuki need to know how to clone a system hard drive16:45
lcukand i need the answer in plain english with instructions a monkey could follow16:45
threshdd if=/dev/sda of=/dev/sdb bs=40M16:45
lcukit's mrs lcuk btw16:45
threshwhere sda and sdb are the respective drives you want to clone from and to16:46
lardmanah, in which case the things weren't that bad16:46
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Stskeepslcuk: grab a copy of norton ghost16:46
AStormdd is cheaper16:47
lardmanWindows or Linux?16:47
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lcukiv asked him to do it loads but he hasnt too busy with liqbase so im taking matters into my own hands16:48
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AStormthen Ghost is the best bet16:48
AStormfor Linux, sfdisk -d and dd are best16:48
lcukewww norton16:49
Stskeepslcuk: ghost is amazing though :P is also a free alternative16:49
lcuki really need a simple list... step 1 press this step 2 click that that kinda thing :D16:50
lcukmrs liq is a non geek16:50
AStormuh, that's Ghost16:50
AStormit is 3-click16:50
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Stskeepsnorton ghost is <316:50
lcukok ill get him to have a look later then now i can nag him with the name of a product16:51
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ethy__i'm trying to emulate nokia n810 with qemu to run maemo (diablo)16:55
ethy__i followed this steps:
ethy__but when i execute qemu a lot of errors are printed16:57
ethy__"onenand_write: unknown OneNAND boot command 0"16:57
ethy__any ideas?16:57
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AStormnot emulated stuff17:02
AStormignore it17:02
AStormit should run, but I had no success with n81017:02
AStormwhen the kernel is built for n800, it works17:02
AStorm(system is obviously the same)17:02
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woglindeyou need a qemu patch from hrw for n81017:02
ethy__oh wait, i have configuration from n800 and i'm triying to emulate a 810, sorry17:03
AStormooh, new stuff17:04
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AStormI haven't been following the blog recently17:04
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johnxmorning qwerty1217:21
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qwerty12hey johnx :)17:21
MaceN800hm. wtf17:21
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RST38hMozilla is nearly ready to release the next beta version of Firefox 3.1 to the public for testing, and insiders predict that it will outpace even Safari 4, which has been the fastest browser in wide release since its beta began last week.17:30
RST38h(and the urlbar search will probably take minutes now)17:31
johnxheh. I'm still not seeing the slowdown in awesome bar, except for getting some *very old* results17:32
RST38hI will try deleting places.sqlite in a moment, maybe it has got corrupted?17:32
RST38hwill lose all that awesome searchable history of course but maybe it will stop hanging...17:33
johnxare you seeing some results then waiting a long time for others?17:33
johnxor are you waiting seconds for even recent results?17:33
mgedmindo this: (1) run apt-get upgrade in the background, (2) start typing in the awesomebar, (3) watch how your window is frozen waiting for sqlite to load some data from the disk which is busy writing out upgraded packages (4) marvel how there's an X grab that prevents you from switching applications or workspaces so you have to sit there and wait17:33
RST38hI am seeing FireFox completely hang when I type even a single letter in urlbar17:33
* mgedmin wants asynchronous awesomebar completions17:34
RST38hmgedmin: I am running WindowsXP.17:34
johnxah, is your system under lots of load otherwise?17:34
RST38h(but it hangs in Ubuntu as well)17:34
* Myrtti is happy that ubiquity works better now with minefield17:34
RST38hnot really17:34
mgedminah, windows -- the OS that doesn't let you *move the fricking window* when the app is busy17:34
mgedminotoh I heard from a coworker who uses both that Firefox is generally faster and nicer on windows17:34
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qwerty12yeah, think I read somewhere recently that firefox in wine outperforms native...17:35
RST38hYea, right, blame Microsoft for everything17:35
qwerty12Even with a shitton of extensions, firefox crashes less in windows than it does in ubuntu...17:35
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* RST38h keworks places.sqlite17:36
RST38hFF never crashed on me in Ubuntu17:36
qwerty12RST38h, lucky.17:36
mgedminRST38h: ever tried using the flash plugin with pulseaudio?17:36
RST38hAside from the freaking urlbar and eventual memory leakage, FF is rock stable in either system for me17:36
RST38hmgedmin: I prefer no to know such words17:37
mgedminthat's the trick for having a stable firefox in linux17:37
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RST38hbut flash appears to work, whatever audio it is using17:37
mgedminbut sometimes one wants to watch youtube...17:37
RST38hshows yutube too17:37
mgedminwhile one has a movie paused in totem at the same time17:37
mgedminon a dinky laptop audio card that doesn't support multiple opening17:38
johnxI gave up on pulseaudio for now :/17:38
mgedminwell, okay, that was 2 ubuntu releases ago17:38
RST38hDunno, too many preconditions17:38
mgedminnow alsa's dmix is probably enabled by default17:38
||cwflash likes ot lock the audio for itself17:38
RST38hFor example, I am not using totem17:38
* mgedmin is very very demanding of his systems17:38
* mgedmin will use whatever the hell he pleases17:38
* johnx uses what works, ignores what doesn't17:39
* mgedmin likes to do things like install two different packages at the same time (on windows) while browsing the web17:39
* mgedmin laughs at "please close all running apps" warnings installshield presents17:39
johnxwell, you make compromises when you choose to do those things17:39
* qwerty12 likes the windows 95 era installshield compared to the installshield + windows installer shit they put out now17:40
johnxchoosing what works for you is all about choosing the compromises you can live with17:40
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X-Fadeqwerty12: I had a new pc where where was a installshield installer updater running allthe time. How crazy is that ;)17:41
mgedminI don't understand that one at all17:41
mgedmin"installshield has updates" -- huh?17:42
X-Fademgedmin: Yes, the installer can be updated too ;)17:42
mgedminis that like ubuntu releasing an updated version of apt-get?17:42
mgedminI always thought on windows every app comes with a copy of the installer17:42
qwerty12With my HP, I don't think I got that but my sister's Dell had the install shield updater...17:42
RST38hAs for audio, I prefer not to know any cute linuxy words other than /dev/dsp17:42
mgedminand you don't use the installer when not installing apps17:42
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* qwerty12 prefers not to update his apps in windows until uhm... a long while later17:43
RST38hi.e. all these alsas, arts, esds, pulseaudios can die their eventual deaths in some other universe I don't have to watch17:43
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mgedminRST38h: don't come to us when you buy a bluetooth headset and want to listen music through it17:43
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RST38hmgedmin: got a bluetooth headset. worksforme on windows.17:44
johnxmgedmin, RST38h already promised to rewrite every individual application to know about bt audio directly rather than through an abstraction layer :)17:44
RST38hjohnx: You misunderstood me17:44
johnxpossibly *shrugs*17:45
RST38hjohnx: I *proposed* to murder every app author not supporting industry standard /dev/dsp, /dev/pcm, or /dev/audio api17:45
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johnxand then you offered no real solution for bt audio except for some vague ideas17:45
RST38hall of the above have almost identical apis17:46
RST38hjohnx: have a userspace driver with /dev/dsp-compatible API17:46
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mgedminRST38h: is that even possible?17:47
mgedminthere are wrappers that try to do that with LD_PRELOAD hacks and fail to work with some apps17:47
mgedminthere apps that mmap /dev/dsp and you can't fake that from userspace17:47
mgedminthere ARE apps17:47
RST38hmgedmin: I think so given how dumb /dev/dsp is17:48
mgedmindumb?  ioctls!  mmap!  etc.17:49
RST38hok, you probably won't be able to mmap it17:49
RST38hthe rest you should be able to do17:49
RST38has long as write() works, it should be ok17:50
johnx"Hey, all you guys who wrote apps, fix them all individually so they work with my shiny new headphones."17:50
RST38hjohnx: I am actually proposing the opposite17:50
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johnxunless they use mmap17:51
RST38hjohnx: rather than having to fix all apps every time the next cool linux audio framework comes up, just use the baseline17:51
RST38hjohnx: how often would you need to mmap /dev/dsp?17:51
RST38hjohnx: I mean you can probably do it if you like, but to what purpose?17:52
johnxhow often do you *need* to and how often do people do it anyways are probably two very different numbers17:52
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johnxdoesn't really matter anyways since ALSA seems like it's here to stay, which is just fine by me17:52
RST38hjohnx: except that ALSA works differently on each platform17:53
johnxhmm? in what way?17:53
RST38hand has got API so large and convoluted that implementing it fully is probably impossible, unless you have the exact same hw as its designers17:54
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johnxif you're referring to Nokia's DSP based implementation of ALSA, I would call it 'not really working' and leave it at that17:54
RST38hjohnx: in "does not make sound, hangs the system" way for SigmaTel, for example17:54
johnxok, there are some broken ALSA drivers17:54
RST38hjohnx: see, you seem to confirm that Nokia ALSA does not work either17:54
johnxI had a broken OSS driver for my ISA PNP. I guess that means it's a bad standard too17:55
johnxlet's just implement whatever WinCE does17:55
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RST38hjohnx: I have never had a broken /dev/dsp or (later) /dev/pcm driver in FreeBSD17:55
johnxwell, it's too bad we're not using FreeBSD then, isn't it?17:55
RST38hjohnx: WinCE waveOut is actually easier to use than ALSA and easier to implement too17:55
johnxwell, we have a winner then :)17:56
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RST38hjohnx: Well, you do not need to use FreeBSD to understand that you need a universal baseline audio driver that works on all platforms the same way17:56
RST38hThat is kinda obvious idea, to anyone but Linux kiddies bent on doing "their own thing".17:57
johnxs/on all platforms/for all output devices/17:57
RST38hjohnx: or even both of these :)17:57
johnxlooks like we get to pick one :)17:58
johnxand we seem to have made different priority choices17:58
RST38hjohnx: the problem is that you do not get to pick one17:58
RST38hjohnx: Every 1-2 years you are forced to use a new one17:58
johnxisn't their an ALSA emulation layer on top of OSS now?17:59
RST38hWhen KDE/Gnome switch17:59
johnxlet's see. Gnome started with ESD in like 1999 and now it uses an API compatible system called pulseaudio17:59
RST38hjohnx: No idea - Ubuntu's desktop linux does expose a /dev/dsp of some kind and it seems to work (with some little glitch I fixed)17:59
johnxah, well that's the OSS emulation layer on top of ALSA18:00
johnxalso, KDE started with artsd sometime in 1998 (IIRC) and retains it to this very day18:00
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RST38hit does?18:00
* RST38h googles18:00
threshthey throw away artsd18:01
johnxah. guess I missed it18:01
RST38hthresh: what do they use now?18:01
threshin favor of phonon subsystem18:01
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RST38hah shit, ANOTHER framework18:01
johnxguess you have a point then18:01
threshOSS sucks18:01
* RST38h asks the Great Tentacled one to award every single Linux audio framework designer with hemorroids18:02
threshit's not an 'audio' framework18:02
threshphonon is multimedia api in general18:02
RST38hAh, of course it is The Last Great Media Framework to End All Frameworks18:02
RST38hthat is what each of these guys says :)18:03
* thresh is not in the trolling mood18:03
slonopotamusarts? i don't have any arts. how my kde 3.5.10 makes sounds then?18:03
RST38hIt streams MP3s! It streams MP4s! Of course, it does not let me play a 128-byte buffer, but WHo CARES! :)18:03
* johnx listens to music on his bt headphones, smiles18:04
* RST38h has got an impression people stopped writing any audio apps other than MP3 players18:05
threshwe will welcome your patches18:05
lardmanjohnx: smiling at the pitch changes? ;)18:05
RST38hjohnx: BTW, how come I have forgotten gstreamer? :)18:05
MaceN800what else is there?18:06
johnxRST38h, because that's something different18:06
RST38hjohnx: Same shit.18:06
johnxlardman, they're not all that bad on an A64 3000+18:06
RST38hjohnx: Streaming media through loops.18:06
johnxRST38h, just like a libjpeg is the same as /dev/fb018:06
lardmanjohnx: ah, indeed :)18:06
RST38hjohnx: well, gstreamer is not exactly libjpeg18:06
johnxlardman, though they *are* still present if I listen for them18:06
johnxRST38h, imlib2?18:07
RST38hjohnx: It does have the actual physical output/input as its endpoints18:07
RST38hjohnx: not familiar with imlib2, can't say18:07
lardmanjohnx: the lack of Linux high accuracy timers18:07
johnxyeah, what really kills me is that my bt headphones have a distinct incompatibility with my glasses :/18:07
RST38hjohnx: but do think gstreamer goes into the same group as phonon and arts, i.e. its authors qualify for hemorroids18:08
johnxRST38h, just make sure they're easy to redeem and will be shipped promptly18:08
RST38hjohnx: the moment N900 supports A2DP, I am buying huge cupped BT headphones :)18:08
*** mbuf has quit IRC18:08 want active noise canceling18:09
* Stskeeps has that on his S-E headphones18:10
lardmanyeah same here18:10
Stskeepsthat's very nic18:10
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lardmanjust fly 1st class18:10
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johnxyeah, tried them on in an electronics store here during the weekend evening rush and the effect was close to a religious experience18:10
lardmanwith what sort of noise?18:10
GeneralAntillesThe one thing Bose ever did right was the noise cancelling on the QC2s.18:11
lardmanpeople talking/white (aircraft engines, etc.)?18:11
johnxcrowd noise, traffic noise, overhead train noise18:11
GeneralAntillesMakes flying so much easier.18:11
lardmanwhat, 1st class?18:11
lardmansure does18:11
GeneralAntilleslardman, psh, I flying on my dad's SkyMiles. :P18:11
johnxthe noise wasn't *gone* it was just like everyone started whispering suddenly18:11
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aquatixjohnx: which headphones are you talking about?18:12
* Jaffa yawns18:12
johnxhonestly I don't remember18:12
aquatixheh, k )18:12
johnxI tried on a bunch, but I wasn't really looking to buy so I didn't keep track18:12
JaffaGeneralAntilles: The pages on doing stuff to the Application Manager - under User:GeneralAntilles in the iwki?18:12
GeneralAntillesMost of the non-cheap ear-cupping models are fairly similar18:13
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* GeneralAntilles suffers through a browser crash for:
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MyrttiI wonder why I get a bottom scrollbar on that page18:16
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jeremiah_Because you're special Myrtti18:16
t_s_ono wonder im having issues with some pdf files in evince. the poppler version used is close to ancient...18:16
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aquatixMyrtti: i don't, but maybe my window is slightly wider18:17
Myrttijeremiah_: oooh, that helps my pain, I'm *speshul*18:17
aquatixMyrtti: yesh you art!18:17
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zeenixany canola developer around?18:19
GeneralAntillesMyrtti, something to do with images, maybe?18:19
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AndrewFBlackWho wants to help me come up with a name for my web based pim application?18:20
jeremiah_AndrewFBlack: Maepim?18:21
florianpimpme? ;)18:22
qwerty12AndrewFBlack, PIMP - Personal Information Manager Prodigy18:22
threshi wonder if maemo has any local PIM app18:22
parazituspimmy = my pim18:23
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AndrewFBlackI like PIMP but I bet is taken lol18:23
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AndrewFBlackyep is taken18:24
Stskeeps.. bet that's taken too18:24 seems available (no, I bullshit you not - is a real code)18:24
AndrewFBlacklol well my last name is black it woudl work18:24
thresh<telepathy=on> and your first is Andrew18:25
AndrewFBlackthresh how did you knwo18:25
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threshi have some skillz18:25
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AndrewFBlacklol even is taken18:26
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AndrewFBlackthere are no good domains left anymore18:26
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: ta18:28 seems to be still free18:28
mgedmin( is taken)18:28
jeremiah_What about AVeryVeryGooddomain.com18:28
AndrewFBlackhmm is open Could Call it Personal Information Web Manager18:28
mgedminwe once played a game: pick random 4-letter domain names.  the one who finds a domain that's not registered already wins18:29
dl9pfhi ! on my n810 the keyboard uses suddently the wrong characters - if i press "-", i get "=", for "ä" i get "-"  how can i fix this ?18:29
RST38hmgedmin: you are risking a lawsuit from Avery, unless it goes belly up in the current cataclysm18:30
dl9pfespecially the FN+<foo> doesn't work18:32
AndrewFBlackI found a 4 letter domain 3I0S.COM18:32
AndrewFBlacktook like 10 random tries to find one18:33
mgedminwe have a winner!  and your prize is a lolcat:
igagisdl9pf: I have almost the same problem, I have Russian-localized tablet and on hardware keyboard I only can type Russian letters. If I set the layout to English in settings then I get the problem you describe, some keys are not what they are.18:34
dl9pfok, i suppose something reset my xkbmap18:35
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dl9pfso question, what's the xkbmap setting to use18:35
dl9pfshould be "setxkbmap -model <foo> -layout <bar> -variant <dunnow>18:35
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VDVsxohhh, Nokia now have a Law, lolol18:37
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dl9pfok, for the records:  de layout:  setxkbmap -model nokiarx44 -layout de18:38
dl9pfigagis: tnx18:38
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igagisdl9pf: I did not even do anything to help you. You're welcome anyway :-)18:39
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wazdHello everybody! I got a new videocard at last)18:40
johnxwelcome back wazd! :D18:40
slonopotamuswazd, hellowazd18:40
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johnxah, this is the later one:
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wazdjohnx, nice!18:43
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johnxyup. Stskeeps did most of that today :)18:48
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kozakHI Stskeeps18:52
wazdI suddenly realised that iPhone multitasking will look like coverflow)18:53
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RST38hwazd: s/multitasking/taskswitching19:01
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wazdRST38h, yes :)19:05
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Direcmy ubuntu maemo installation keeps insisting that it is booted from incompatible bootmenu, how to diagnostic?19:07
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Direcit has something to do with the fact that I deleted bootmenu.conf and now I can't get it booting19:08
Direcwell, maemo part works...19:08
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johnxDirec, where did you get bootmenu from?19:14
johnxthere are two versions floating around19:15
Direcyeah, I was actually hoping to hear something like that :)19:16
lcukffs @ tracy - i told her to ask in jest19:16
Direcwhere could I find the ubuntu-compatible one?19:16
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Directemplate will do19:16
johnxit's not just the bootmenu.conf file, it's other stuff as well19:17
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Direcis deblet installers bootmenu ok?19:18
johnxyou might as well get the latest, which goes along with mer installer19:18
DirecI have mer's installer now19:18
johnxhave you tried running 'install bootmenu' again?19:19
Direcwell, I'll try again19:19
Directhe problem is that without the bootmenu.conf file with certain contents, bootmenu.d folder is not included, or something...19:20
johnxright, but it should make you one when you install it19:20
johnxyou could try: apt-get --reinstall install bootmenu19:20
johnxas root of course19:20
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DirecI ran "Install Bootmenu", here goes!19:21
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DirecI'll try reinstalling bootmenu and see19:22
Direc*what happens19:23
Direcnope, it won't install me one19:25
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Direcwhat's next :I19:25
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johnx"nope, it won't install me one" <- what does that mean?19:25
johnxdid it say: "I won't install you one."?19:26
Direcwont't produce a file called bootmenu.conf19:26
johnxah, but apt-get --reinstall install bootmenu did succeed without errors?19:26
johnxanyways, which bootmenu.conf did you delete?19:27
Direcwell, bootmenu.conf19:27
johnxwhere was it?19:27
Directhere were no conf.examples19:27
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johnxis there one still in /mnt/initfs/bootmenu.conf ?19:28
Direcwhoa, there it is!19:28
johnxthey're the same file on my system. try copying it into place19:29
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Stskeepscopy that and /etc/bootmenu.d from initfs to /etc19:29
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vasily_pupkinanybody use linux-omap kernel with stlc opensource driver?19:29
Direcand the whole time I was looking in /mnt/initfs/etc/bootmenu.conf -.-19:29
johnxfind -name is your friend :)19:29
Stskeepswazd: we need to start working a bit on actual pixel placements, icon sizes, etc19:30
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johnxgrrr...broke my ubuntu/mer install on my zaurus. xfbdev is segfaulting. I'm running debootstrap and going to sleep19:33
johnx'night all19:33
qwerty12'night johnx19:33
slonopotamusvasily_pupkin, you look russian :) as far as i  know, nobody has it usable19:34
slonopotamusvasily_pupkin, google for nosocomia blog, he tries to run gentoo with it and even boots but many things do not work19:35
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slonopotamusvasily_pupkin, clock, for example. kernel doesn't read current time on startup19:36
Stskeepsit doesn't even do that in diablo :P19:36
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slonopotamusStskeeps, userspace doesn't matter. it's just kernel <-> hw thing19:37
Stskeepsslonopotamus: retutime sets kernel time :19:37
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slonopotamusStskeeps, hmm. ok, you win :)19:38
slonopotamusStskeeps, clock initing works completely diferent on normal systems?19:40
Stskeepsyeah, but on ARM this kind of stuff is fairly standard19:41
Stskeepsi think :P19:41
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slonopotamuswhat 'this'? retu? i doubt19:42
qwerty12RST38h, they got that pic in 2009?19:42
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RST38hqwerty: Dunno, something stopped me from investigating further19:42
suihkulokkiStskeeps: retutime is special (the hw is not really a typical RTC)19:43
suihkulokkiStskeeps: most arm systems now tie to the kernel RTC framework which just works with normal hwclock tool19:43
* slonopotamus wonders what reason made jokia to follow different path19:44
Direcdidn't help :I19:45
Direcit was the same file I installed there a few times earlier :(19:45
StskeepsDirec: if you once get the huge warning sign when booting mer, you need to reinstall it. the incompatible bootmenu has wrecked the installation19:45
Stskeepsit= mer19:46
GeneralAntilleslol, the Fennec guys are sure having a fun time trying to figure out how to upload to Extras. :P19:46
Direcso I would be very happy if one could provide me the bootmenu.conf (with the functions and such...)19:46
DirecStskeeps, I'm trying to boot ubuntu this time19:46
StskeepsDirec: ah.19:46
vasily_pupkinsolarion: ~ russian ^_^ I'm from ukraine19:47
RST38hGeneral: non-free is probably the only way for them19:47
woglindega haha do we have autoconf-2.13 in the sdk?19:47
* RST38h somehow doubts poor autobuilder will handle THAT19:47
GeneralAntillesRST38h, it's also not allowed.19:47
vasily_pupkini'm thinking about airocrack-ng at n81019:47
StskeepsDirec: uninstall bootmenu and get19:47
RST38hGeneral: Then either distribution .debs via web page or creating their own repo19:47
woglindegeneral do you know the status about the gitplugin for the gforge platforms?19:48
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suihkulokkislonopotamus: the retu-rtc driver used to have some amusing comments19:48
qwerty12RST38h, or they just fix the problem. Serves them right for hardcoding /home/cltbld/19:49
RST38hqwerty: probably not their last problem...19:49
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* timeless sighs19:49
qwerty12non-free is the lazy way out ;)19:49
timelessyay process19:49
timelessi was just asked to review a patch in our internal bugzilla19:50
StskeepsDirec: make sure a /etc/bootmenu.conf exists after this and it looks like
GeneralAntillesnon-free is also the evil way.19:50
timelesswhich is precisely the patch i committed to hg.mozilla.org19:50
slonopotamussuihkulokki, googling19:50
timelessr+ "i wrote it, and i agree with my patch"19:50
RST38hqwerty: when stuff like Fennec is involved, it does seem to be the only practical one19:50
RST38hqwerty: huge ball of convoluted crap19:50
qwerty12RST38h, meh, I don't believe that. Anything I can do in my scratchbox (minus installing a new toolchain :(), I can do in my rules on the autobuilder19:51
RST38hqwerty: you are just not creative enough =)19:52
GeneralAntillesMaybe we should send qwerty12 to them. :P19:52
timelesscan you sign w/ your key w/o letting the autobuilder have a copy of your key? :)19:52
RST38hAnd make them pay to maemo foundation?19:52
timelessi suppose19:52
qwerty12Only annoying part is Build-Depends but it's impractical to have the SDK installed upon each build...19:52
timelessyou could provide a signature and ask the autobuilder to include it19:52
timelessand as long as 0 bits changed between how the autobuilder works and how your personal build works19:53
timelessthen the signature could work :)19:53
* Myrtti yawns19:53
qwerty12Does gtk_dialog_set_alternative_button_order work with a hildon_file_chooser btw? Not really bothered if not, just can't be arsed to rebuild if it has no effect or messes up :)19:54
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woglindehm I like the sb2 a lot more then sb119:54
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qwerty12that makes 2: you and RST38h :p19:55
DirecStskeeps, that worked. Many thanks to you!19:56
slonopotamushehe. rtc = return to chaos19:56
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r2d2rogersis dsme-tools the right thing to look at if my brightness doesn't adjust now? !mer19:58
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: hmm yeah, odd that it doesn't19:59
r2d2rogersjust about to try a apt-get update on a mostly pristine release image20:00
RST38hqwerty: Sts also secretly loves it afaik20:00
Stskeepsi like sb2 but i am in a love-hate relationship to it20:01
Stskeepsi would like it better if it worked properly and was documented :P20:01
qwerty12odd people... :P20:02
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* Jaffa homes20:03
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mgedminverbing nouns funs20:04
Direcubuntu still complains the same thing... so it's propably a config issue20:05
StskeepsDirec: remember what i said about it nuking the install20:05
Stskeepsyou need to reinstall ubuntu :/20:05
Direcabout int/ext cards..20:06
Direcmaemo sees them as mmcblk0 as internal, mmcblk1 as external, right?20:07
Direcbut bootloader sees them the other way around? and ubuntu, too?20:07
Stskeepsthat's why you use INT_CARD and EXT_CARD in bootmenu20:07
Stskeepsif b-man hasn't fixed that in his guide yet, i'm going to beat him20:07
Direcso in ubuntu's fstab i should have "/dev/mmcblk0p1 / ext2" etc.20:09
Stskeepsnah, just rootfs20:10
Direcpointing to removable SD20:10
Direcso no reference to mmcblk0p1 which contains ubuntu root?20:11
Stskeepsit is already mounted back in bootmenu :P20:11
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Direcso, let's say I nuke the partition and untar the rootstrap from "Ubuntu Jaunty for the N800/N810" forum guide; is it then bootable?20:14
Stskeepsshould be20:14
timelE61inUked partitons don't hold data..20:14
Direcok, mkfs.ext2 then20:16
Stskeepsext3, :P20:16
Stskeepsmuch better for your FS sanity20:16
Direcwell, yeah20:16
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Direcsh*t, this is not going to work with me...20:35
DirecI'll have to try this on a better time :I20:35
Direcc'ya ->20:35
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leafy2k9hey is this maemo as in the software that is on my nokia n810?20:45
lfelipeleafy2k9: pretty much yes20:46
leafy2k9ive noticed after about 3 days of uptime my n810 gets all slow and laggy so i have to reboot and its all quick again20:47
StsN800it's not windows mobile :P20:48
GeneralAntillesleafy2k9, are you leaving applications open?20:48
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GeneralAntillesSomething's clearly leaking.20:49
leafy2k9quite a few applets, home status, home uptime, clock, home mem free, omweather20:49
GeneralAntillesHave you tried disabling some of the applets and seeing if it goes away?20:49
leafy2k9uh, no20:50
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GeneralAntillesDo that.20:50
GeneralAntillesOne of your applets is probably leaking.20:50
leafy2k9i think its omweather20:50
GeneralAntillesOnce you figure out which one, please tell the maintainer.20:50
leafy2k9ok i'll try it later20:51
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leafy2k9also i cant pair it with my windows mobile 6 professional phone with maemo-pan, but i could with windows mobile 6 standard20:53
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leafy2k9it seems to not connect with bluetooth devices which are designated as PDA rather than smartphone20:54
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GeneralAntillesFalse advertising is always a funny accusation.20:55
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t_s_oseems a lot of people confuse the tablets as either pda or phone...21:00
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inzAm I the only one who doesn't like my applets in python?21:01
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leafy2k9but if you do a bluetooth scan nokia (or maemo) advertises itsef as a PDA21:07
t_s_othats because those are set types, and both phone and pda are technically wrong. but pda is closer then phone...21:09
leafy2k9i would describe the n8x0 as a MID21:09
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t_s_oyep, but mid is a recent term, and one that intel wants to link to "intel inside" expectations...21:09
leafy2k9like psion and netbook?21:10
t_s_osomething like that...21:10
t_s_oon that bluetooth id thing, one can have the tablet id itself as just about anything by messing around with the class setting in hcid.conf21:11
RST38hIntel came up with the word MID so it is up to Intel how to use it21:12
RST38h(also see Microsoft with its UMPC)21:12
leafy2k9its not the PDA actively refusing its maemo21:12
RST38hPDAs are dead, never say this word in front of Nokia marketing :)21:13
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qwerty12_N800with the 770,N8X0; it was never alive :)21:14
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leafy2k9GeneralAntilles, it IS omweather that is leaking21:19
imhotepit doesn't only make your tablet slow, it also causes a battery drain21:20
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timeless.whois avs22:30
* timeless frowns22:30
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Stskeepsif that's the touchbook mobo, i friggen want one22:44
* r2d2rogers tries to figure out why his sound is suddenly working in OS2008HE22:46
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Stskeepsr2d2rogers: i suspect memory related22:47
Stskeepsdsp suddenly having space to take22:47
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r2d2rogersso something didn't start as it normally would?22:47
r2d2rogersbooted to flash and the startup sound startled me22:48
Stskeepsenabled virtual memory? :P22:48
r2d2rogersnot playing internet radio stream22:48
r2d2rogerserr now...22:48
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r2d2rogersI didn't change it on purpose... will check though22:48
r2d2rogersI had booted to flash with the intent of making a swap partition on the card...22:48
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r2d2rogersStskeeps: swap is still the 64 meg it allows you to create as a swap file22:50
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r2d2rogersthis is literally the first time I've had sound this loud out of OS2008HE22:53
r2d2rogersI don't have a clue what I'm listening to on BBC radio 1, but it's cool just knowing the 770 is doing it22:53
* RST38h disabled swap - it made the system too slow 22:54
* Stskeeps -really- wants that touchbook thing.22:54
r2d2rogersdual screen touch keyboad one?22:54
r2d2rogersme too22:54
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StskeepsMer would do wonders on that thing22:55
Stskeepsnow if this touchbook is real, to hell with pandora :P22:58
Stskeepscrazy, comes with schematics too :P22:59
r2d2rogersStskeeps: maybe it's just the default media player... the other 770 plays too23:02
r2d2rogersno swap23:02
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* b-man 's tablet took a beating today :( droped it on a concrete driveway this morning and it left a large scuff mark on the bottom right corner of the device X(23:06
b-manbut it's ok23:06
Stskeepsb-man: so it goes23:07
Stskeepsthese tablets can take a beating23:07
b-manindeed :)23:07
b-manit's just annoying to see a bunch of chipped-off finish on the corner of my tablet when i use it now XP23:08
luke-jreek, the N810 can get pretty hot :<23:12
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Stskeepsluke-jr: if you don't remember power saving wifi yeah23:13
Stskeepsand enabling it23:13
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b-manStskeeps: btw, did you see my new xorg-config package? - it automaticly configures xorg.conf, Xwrapper.config, and rc.local for the tablets :)23:19
RST38hSmall digits problem in TI83 mode solved!23:19
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Stskeepsb-man: hehe, good, but you people should start contributing things to mer and help out there.. remember what i said: ubuntu is nice and all, but you're going to end up with a battery life not unlike a arm laptop, not a pocketable device you can have for days :P23:21
t_s_ois there a way to permanently turn on font size only zooming in microb? the setting i found seems to reset each time i open a window23:21
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b-manStskeeps: you want me to build that package for mer? :)23:23
b-manI've also added support for osso-esd in ubuntu so we might be able to get adobe-flashplayer working :D23:23
Stskeepswell simply looking around on what could be done for mer and how it could be done is a start.. and what is lacking23:25
Stskeepsmoving slowly23:25
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b-manStskeeps: re-designing the desktop?23:31
luke-jrStskeeps: say what?23:31
luke-jrabout power saving wifi?23:32
StsN800b-man, yup, wazds ideas23:32
StsN800luke-jr, yeah. psm ap. else it often gets hot23:33
b-manit looks awsome :D23:33
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luke-jrStsN800: how?23:33
infobotmethinks wifi-psm is
* b-man needs to start getting more involved with Mer again23:35
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* thopiekar is discussing about the new mer-ui on #mer23:45
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luke-jrStsN800: it defaulted to Max23:49
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