IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2009-02-27

* neatojones continues to sit on enlightenment channel waiting for answers		00:01
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neatojones	somehow, despite the amazing realism of the leaked image I posted no one seems to believe it. I'm shocked	00:30
pupnik	which neatojones	00:31
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pupnik	nm found it	00:32
neatojones	:)	00:34
StsN800	ssvb, scanning occasionally returns invalid argument	00:36
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cellofellow	I don't have a Nokia tablet but have been looking at them, and was wondering how the Skype functionality works.	00:37
lcuk	skype works, but video doesnt	00:38
lcuk	gtalk with video calling does work nicely however	00:39
lcuk	(at least i think its gtalk	00:39
cellofellow	ok, but how is skype used? just use the builtin speakers and mic? can it act like phone when using these various voip apps (hold it to the ear) or maybe use a bluetooth earpiece?	00:39
cellofellow	(honestly not too interested in video chat)	00:40
lcuk	i dont use a bt earpiece, but i know the supplied headphones have a mic and stuff on em	00:40
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GeneralAntilles	Speakerphone, 3.5mm or Bluetooth.	00:41
cellofellow	the 3.5mm jack is a 3-channel connection in this case?	00:41
lcuk	putting the device directly to your head isnt practical really, the speakers are geared as speakers and not phonesq	00:41
cellofellow	got it	00:41
lcuk	evening GeneralAntilles	00:42
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cellofellow	could it work with a usb headset?	00:43
GeneralAntilles	If you can get drivers.	00:44
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cellofellow	It just uses the shipped usb audio alsa drivers.	00:45
cellofellow	shipped, stock, standard, whatever.	00:46
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* lcuk craves bacon		01:10
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pupnik	press button	01:13
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jaem	good morning	01:15
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lcuk	good morning jaem, do you have bacon?	01:15
woglinde	wahaha I just see the video about vmware on the n800	01:15
jaem	lcuk: sadly no	01:15
woglinde	wtf they did at vmware	01:15
lcuk	yes woglinde looks impressive	01:16
woglinde	did they port a l4 kernel?	01:16
lcuk	the scaled displays were a nice touch (like my scaled things)	01:16
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lcuk	i dunno how they did it, but they managed to trick lower level graphics to render at scale	01:17
jaem	is anyone here familiar with b-man's Ubuntu install? I'm getting the "incompatible bootmenu" error, and I couldn't find a solution to that. I presume i just did something stupid	01:17
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woglinde	okay	01:17
woglinde	I am off again	01:17
woglinde	bye	01:17
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woglinde	good nite	01:17
lcuk	hi n bye woglinde	01:17
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* GeneralAntilles wonders at there not having been a single nomination.		01:18
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rdesfo	does any one know how to get ubuntu on n800	01:50
jaem	there's a forum thread, but I'm having issues with bootmenu	01:51
jaem	other than that, it appears to work	01:51
jaem	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25975	01:51
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rdesfo	awesome thanks	01:54
rdesfo	has any one thought about packaging this and placing it in lauchpad?	01:55
rdesfo	that would be great then all it would take is adding a couple of line to sources.list and accouple of command lines	01:56
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jaem	rdesfo: it's a completely different distro than Maemo	01:57
jaem	so that wouldn't really work	01:57
jaem	b-man is working on an installer, though	01:57
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Andrewfblack	anyone installed Nitdroid using script on itt and can't get it to go past Nitdroaid boot screen	02:02
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pupnik	ARM and microcontroller based homemade helicopters, with gps tracking google earth, gyrscopes etc .. fun http://forum.mikrokopter.de/topic-7118.html	02:03
jaem	cool!	02:04
Andrewfblack	I think I wiped my windows partiton when I was doing the install for Nitdroid	02:06
fireun	ahh, evolution (;	02:07
Andrewfblack	I can't beleave that	02:07
fireun	survival of the fitest	02:07
fireun	all linux, all the time!	02:07
fireun	it was a subconcious act	02:08
Andrewfblack	yeah but my school work was on that partition	02:08
fireun	deep down, you know it was for the best	02:08
jaem	the school work had been tainted. It had to die	02:08
jaem	but still, that's too bad :(	02:08
fireun	oh, well... my condolences	02:08
Andrewfblack	now here is the qestion do I reinstall windows or move on and try to live with just the linux	02:09
fireun	I find wine works for all the little things I needed windows for	02:09
fireun	but your milage may vary	02:09
jaem	move on	02:09
Andrewfblack	Well there aer some games I don't think I would be able to play	02:09
jaem	or virtualize windows, if your computer can handle it	02:09
jaem	hmm... I don't game, but I haven't found anything else I needed Windows for in the last few years	02:10
jaem	s/few/two/	02:10
infobot	jaem meant: hmm... I don't game, but I haven't found anything else I needed Windows for in the last two years	02:10
fireun	games maybe you should have stopped play? school work is more important	02:10
fireun	I suddenly realize I havent played a game for months	02:10
Andrewfblack	ok found my school work it was back uped to my server	02:11
fireun	good job!	02:11
jaem	was it a Linux server?	02:11
fireun	hee	02:11
Andrewfblack	jaem you don't want to know : )	02:11
jaem	otherwise you'll need to print out the homework and burn it	02:11
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jaem	purge the windows taint from it	02:11
fireun	jaem: what if the fonts were windows fonts?	02:12
Andrewfblack	find me something as good and easy as windows home server and I would	02:12
jaem	okay, I'm just kidding	02:12
fireun	or are you?	02:12
jaem	fireun: then you'd need to go find the guys who wrote the fonts, and burn them	02:12
jaem	good old fashioned proprietary software witch hunt!	02:12
Andrewfblack	guess I know why tablet isn't booting Nitdroid I must have flashed it to my windows partiton on desktop lol	02:12
fireun	I spoke with someone the other week who was going to buy fonts! thats crazy.	02:12
jaem	it is	02:12
fireun	who buys fonts?	02:13
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fireun	thats like saying you bougth some words the other day	02:13
GeneralAntilles	fireun, professionals who use them.	02:13
jaem	my uni spent an obscene amount of money on a new logo, which not only could have been designed by an 8-year old, but also used a really expensive font	02:13
GeneralAntilles	Alternatively you could ask: "Who buys art?"	02:13
jaem	that's a fair point - typography isn't as simple as some might think - you might say it /is/ art	02:14
fireun	fonts = art = questionable	02:14
jaem	questionability is not art	02:14
fireun	proof!	02:14
jaem	(fonts == art) == questionable?	02:14
jaem	and the answer would be true?	02:14
jaem	hrm	02:15
fireun	== maybe	02:15
fireun	which is a derivitive of 'sometimes'	02:15
jaem	yeah	02:15
fireun	but NOT equivelant!	02:15
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jaem	what about wingdings?	02:15
jaem	art, or not?	02:15
fireun	useful, or not?	02:16
jaem	not terribly	02:16
fireun	I havnt used a wingding in almost a decade	02:17
jaem	I don't think I ever have	02:17
fireun	maybe that little (c) thing, but I prefer (cc) anyways	02:17
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jaem	although I remember back in elementary school, they banned "jokerman", because everyone thought it was cool to use on assignments	02:17
jaem	fireun: I'm with you there	02:17
fireun	and using the wingding for it is not necessary, you can just type (c) (cc) and the idea comes across	02:17
jaem	apparently there are some countries where (c) is not acceptable	02:18
jaem	or so I've heard	02:18
fireun	I've heard people suggesting to other students that they should use currier new, because at 12pt, it fills the page with fewer words! silliness.	02:18
fireun	how about 'copyright 1969'	02:19
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fireun	or do they only allow 'copyleft 1969'	02:19
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* GeneralAntilles yanked the power cable on his router while vacuuming. . . .		02:24
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GeneralAntilles	mikkov_, I have a feeling darethehair is going to bring down Extras within the next 72 hours.	02:24
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fireun	sometimes, I wonder what language you guys are using...	02:27
GeneralAntilles	Language?	02:27
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Andrewfblack	still can't get Nitdroid to boot on my tablet	02:29
Andrewfblack	even after I wiped my windows partiton lol	02:30
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Andrewfblack	can't beleave my day I wiped my windows partition and my tablet at smae time	02:42
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jaem	I propose that we organize a channel-wide HDD wiping to show our support and sympathy	02:51
lcuk	you first	02:53
jaem	I was going to suggest having everyone type in their root passwords, and then we could do it as a community :P	02:54
jaem	we could do it as a fundraiser... kind of like shaving your heads for cancer	02:54
jaem	..grr... apt-get in the Ubuntu chroot keeps hanging	02:55
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fireun	I may not have wiped my hd today, but I shouldnt have eaten that salmon jombalya	03:03
fireun	oof	03:03
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earksiinni	hi everyone	03:57
earksiinni	does anyone have experience with creating bootable images for the it's?	03:58
earksiinni	i'm interested in creating a highly specialized mini-distro for the 770	03:58
earksiinni	right now i just want to make a bootable initramfs/initrd image that i can upload to the device with the tool	03:59
earksiinni	if i need to RTFM i'd be more than happy to read the manual, but i don't know where that is :-)	03:59
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GeneralAntilles	earksiinni, it's the quite time. You'll probably want to talk to Stskeeps or johnx but I don't believe they're here at the moment.	04:02
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earksiinni	GeneralAntilles, thanks again lol :-P	04:02
Mercury	Does anyone remember what the warrenty period is on the n810? I'm getting the feeling that I may need to use mine.	04:03
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GeneralAntilles	Mercury, 1 year for the US, should be 3 for EU	04:23
GeneralAntilles	dunno about other places.	04:23
Mercury	Alright, in the US, and it's been less then a year.	04:24
Mercury	Damn, I really don't want to be without it for a couple of weeks either.	04:24
GeneralAntilles	What's the problem?	04:24
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Mercury	When I plug it into the computer via the micro USB cable, about 50% of the time I get lots and lots of block errors on the computer side (Linux) as it tries to read the partition tables, and the unit's UI locks. I can (sometimes) still ssh into the unit, at which point I see block errors being reported on the internal memory device,	04:26
Mercury	I've tried reflashing with the current Maemo build, which did not fix it. If there's a handy tool for doing a full erase of the flash and then a reformat that would probably be next.	04:27
GeneralAntilles	By "internal memory device" do you mean the 256MB of NAND or the 2GB eMMC?	04:27
GeneralAntilles	Because the 2GB eMMC shipped with an oversized partition table for a while.	04:28
GeneralAntilles	So repartitioning might help	04:28
Mercury	The 2GB eMMC.	04:28
GeneralAntilles	The flasher doesn't touch the cards.	04:28
GeneralAntilles	Only the 256MB of NAND.	04:28
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Mercury	This is a new issue though, I've had the unit for over 6 months. But I'll definitely give repartitioning and formatting a try.	04:28
GeneralAntilles	Well, it doesn't crop up instantly.	04:29
GeneralAntilles	It'll become an issue whenever the out-of-range area of the partition table is used.	04:29
Mercury	Hrrm, not sure why it wouldn't be 100% if it's being caused by simply writing past the end, but I'll still give it a shot.	04:29
GeneralAntilles	Which can be 5 minutes after you start loading data or 6 months.	04:29
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GeneralAntilles	Alternatively the eMMC could just be shot.	04:30
GeneralAntilles	That's been know to happen once or twice, too.	04:30
Mercury	And if that's the case, it's a return for repair issue. Joy.	04:30
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Mercury	Well, let's hope that repartitioning helps.	04:31
Mercury	Any known issues with doing that from a PC with it attached as a mass storage device?	04:31
GeneralAntilles	Shouldn't be.	04:31
GeneralAntilles	If it doesn't work, there's always SSH.	04:31
neato_jones	Stskeeps: I'm actually talking to the guy who makes enlightenment. Hopefully we can get the enlightenment keyboard working	04:32
Mercury	Yep.	04:32
Mercury	GeneralAntilles: Thank you. :)	04:32
GeneralAntilles	Mercury, fixed?	04:33
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Mercury	GeneralAntilles: Still copying ~1G of stuff off the eMMC. :)	04:34
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	04:34
GeneralAntilles	The USB interface is SLOOW	04:34
Mercury	Given that I mostly use it for ebooks. :)	04:36
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Mercury	I sure hope this works, I don't really want to go batshit insane due to lack of something to read with. :)	04:40
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Mido	Heya	04:41
Mido	I need a little help, a small amount of handholding if you will	04:42
Mido	I managed to set up Xephyr to forward X information to cygwin X on my xp machine, and I can start the emulator	04:43
Mido	but what im having a hard time with is understanding what things go where when it comes to the emulator's environment	04:43
Mido	I'm a bit confused at which manuals to read, since I go through them and end up feeling like they still skipped over some very fundamental things	04:43
Mido	which I simply am not used to	04:44
Mido	basically I'm asking how to put a compiled helloworld into a folder or file that the emulator will see and allow me to run	04:44
tank-man	mido, have you read this? http://maemo.org/development/training/maemo_getting_started_content/plain_html/node5/	04:46
Mido	oh my :o	04:47
Mido	tank-man, lemme go through it and see if I still need help after that; thanks a lot	04:47
tank-man	good luck	04:48
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Mido	I really appreciate it :)	04:54
bef0rd	hi	04:55
tank-man	bonjour	04:58
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Mido	first problem while following the tutorial	05:03
Mido	got pretty far with nothing wrong	05:03
Mido	but when we start using the pkg-config utility..	05:03
Mido	http://rafb.net/p/gjf8Wd55.html	05:04
Mido	I get that	05:04
Mido	which is not what the tutorial says I should get	05:04
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Mido	I should note that all the version checks the tutorial has me do; line up perfectly	05:08
tank-man	yea second line says you are missing the program "pkg-config" from you path	05:08
Mido	ah	05:08
Mido	ill.. resolve that I guess :)	05:09
Mido	installing	05:09
tank-man	oh maybe cause you should use `pkg-config, not 'pkg-config	05:10
neato_jones	what is the framerate of hildon?	05:11
neato_jones	..and is the N8x0 96 dpi	05:11
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GeneralAntilles	neato_jones, the LCD is 225dpi	05:16
GeneralAntilles	x is 96, though, I think.	05:16
GeneralAntilles	They just pumped up the font size.	05:16
GeneralAntilles	x updates are manual	05:17
GeneralAntilles	So there isn't really a "framerate"	05:17
neato_jones	thanks	05:17
neato_jones	k	05:17
neato_jones	anyone use Mer. how can you set up the usb ssh?	05:21
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tank-man	http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking	05:23
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ezadkiel_mB	can anyone explain to me my scratchbox is giving me mmap: Permission denied when I am running as fakeroot?	05:36
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tonyyarusso	What can I use to sync information from the GPE PIM tools to Evolution on my desktop?	05:39
Mido	tank-man, I installed the pkg-config from apt-get install, then tried what you said with ` instead of ' and I got http://rafb.net/p/w24p6177.html	05:44
Mido	v_v	05:44
Mido	seg faults	05:45
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b-man	I'm now chatting from booted ubuntu from my tablet! :D	06:05
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neato_jones	me too	06:06
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neato_jones	bman--	06:06
b-man_ubuntu	sweet]	06:06
neato_jones	talking to raster with the e17 people	06:06
neato_jones	trying to figure out the keyboard issues	06:07
neato_jones	he installed Mer, is building E17 now	06:07
Mido	:(	06:07
b-man_ubuntu	nice	06:07
Mido	I'm getting segfaults when I try to compile with gtk	06:08
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* b-man_ubuntu tests out firefox		06:08
neato_jones	compile which with gtk?	06:08
Mido	neato_jones, http://rafb.net/p/w24p6177.html	06:08
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neato_jones	Mido: why are you compiling libgtk2.0?	06:15
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Mido	neato_jones, http://maemo.org/development/training/maemo_getting_started_content/plain_html/node5/ following this	06:17
Mido	I need to go afk for a bit	06:17
Mido	ill read anything you suggest	06:17
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Mido	god dammit xD	06:40
Mido	the net split erased what anyone might have said	06:40
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dougt	timelE61i: ping?	06:44
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sisto	hello	07:38
sisto	anyone using gnumeric?	07:38
sisto	i can't find a way to switch to another sheet	07:38
sisto	any hints?	07:38
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sans	hi	07:39
sans	Gm	07:39
sisto	hi	07:39
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sans	I am checking if Aptana toolkit cud be used for making applications for maemo .can anybody suggest something	07:41
sisto	do you know how to switch between sheets in gnumeric for maemo?	07:41
sisto	sans: sorry no clue about that	07:42
sans	sisto:no idea about switching in gnumeric:(	07:43
sans	Stskeeps: hi	07:44
sans	Stskeeps:any way to make applications on Aptana and put it on maemo?	07:45
sans	timelE61i:any way to make applications on Aptana and put it on maemo?	07:45
tank-man	not going to ask me? :)	07:46
GeneralAntilles	sans, firing random questions at random people isn't usually a good way to get an answer. :)	07:46
GeneralAntilles	If there's somebody in the room who can answer, they will.	07:47
sans	k will keep in mind?	07:48
sans	:)	07:49
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RST38h	EHLO ALL	09:19
Stskeeps	helo	09:21
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earksiinni	hi all	09:40
earksiinni	i'm trying to mount the rootfs image according to http://wiki.maemo.org/Modifying_the_root_image	09:40
earksiinni	but i keep getting jffs2: Too few erase blocks (0) in dmesg	09:40
earksiinni	any ideas?	09:41
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timeless	http://www.infradead.org/pipermail/linux-mtd/2007-October/019675.html	09:45
qwerty12	He's probably doing it wrong, it correctly lists 256 as the erase block size (and I've followed those instructions and made new images a few times with those instructions)	09:46
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Stskeeps	'lo else58	10:17
Stskeeps	er.	10:17
Stskeeps	earksiinni,b ut he let :P	10:17
* Stskeeps ponders how that message was full of fail.		10:17
Proteous	rofl	10:19
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Jaffa	Morning, all	10:26
Stskeeps	morning Jaffa	10:26
qwerty12	mornin'	10:27
Proteous	mronin	10:27
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Stskeeps	qwerty12: did powerlaunch have a charging screen?	10:31
qwerty12	Aye, unanimated though	10:31
Stskeeps	sure? thought it was in the code to animate	10:32
qwerty12	It's been a long while since I've used it. It did have a problem though. It was either the animation thing or the writing and icon being way too small (which I know did happen for a fact) or both.	10:33
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Stskeeps	ah	10:35
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inz	Does powerlaunch have alarm dialog?	10:41
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qwerty12	alarms were broken last time I tried it but I may be imagining the author saying he fixed the alarms in a later version. lemme check.	10:42
Stskeeps	uncertain, but it is probably programmable :P	10:42
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qwerty12	"Alarms should be working in powerlaunch 0.9 and it's now installable from the maemo extras-devel repository"	10:42
inz	with localisation?	10:42
qwerty12	iirc, it only speaks english	10:43
qwerty12	But it's all handled by conf files anyway (including text strings)	10:44
inz	Ahh	10:44
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Stskeeps	powerlaunch is basically a programming language :P	10:48
inz	=)	10:48
inz	Generic problem solver	10:48
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qwerty12	It also has the tendency to create problems for users :P	10:48
Stskeeps	yeah :P	10:49
inz	Wonder if system UI is still used in harmattan...	10:49
inz	Erm, meant fremantle	10:49
inz	Hmm, at least there's no osso-systemui-dbus-dev package in fremantle repos	10:51
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RST38h	moo all	11:05
qwerty12	baa	11:05
RST38h	A curious thing happened yesterday	11:06
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RST38h	qwerty: Seen that post about Tracker on Maemo Planet?	11:06
qwerty12	Seen it but I haven't read it yet	11:06
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RST38h	qwerty: Anyway, I left a comment to it yesterday, about how running tracker in background will affect cpu performance and battery consumption	11:13
RST38h	qwerty: Today, my comment has been quietly deleted.	11:13
qwerty12	It's been deleted?	11:13
RST38h	Yea.	11:13
RST38h	Funny, isn't it? :)	11:13
qwerty12	Indeed :)	11:14
* RST38h strokes his crystal balls		11:14
GeneralAntilles	You sure it's not just in a moderation queue?	11:14
RST38h	No, it has been there yesterday	11:14
GeneralAntilles	Anyway, it could hardly be worse than metalayer	11:14
RST38h	And it wasn't a flame too, just a very neutral question	11:15
RST38h	General: Judging from how Tracker behaves on desktop Ubuntu, it will	11:15
RST38h	General: very aggressive program, created 200MB of metadata in my ~ before I disabled it	11:16
* GeneralAntilles shrugs.		11:16
GeneralAntilles	Nokia's not stupid.	11:16
RST38h	Nokia is a company, it can't be "stupid"	11:17
GeneralAntilles	Maemo SW, then.	11:17
GeneralAntilles	Whatever term you want to use.	11:17
RST38h	Unfortunately, architectural decisions like that are made by live humans and some of them may be...mmm...unrealistic	11:17
GeneralAntilles	They've already shipped something similar for 3 years.	11:18
GeneralAntilles	It hasn't managed to kill the platform.	11:18
AStorm	companies can be stupid	11:19
AStorm	so.	11:19
RST38h	General: It is not going to kill the platform of course	11:20
RST38h	General: Will just piss the users.	11:20
RST38h	(see the previous metalayer fiasco)	11:20
Jaffa	jeremiah_: oh dear, you spelt Fremantle incorrectly; one of GeneralAntilles' bug bears ;-)	11:20
AStorm	definitely	11:20
AStorm	but we can fork	11:21
* RST38h would prefer to have a decent working base product		11:21
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, I'm building a capital M launcher as we speak. ;)	11:21
AStorm	unlike other poor sods	11:21
RST38h	"We can fork" is really not an answer :(	11:21
Stskeeps	RST38h: Tracker is -very- modified on Maemo	11:21
Stskeeps	(and tracker on maemo is the new desktop version)	11:21
AStorm	but is still slow	11:21
RST38h	Sts: Have you tried running whatever they released on Mer btw?	11:21
AStorm	:>	11:21
Stskeeps	RST38h: no, not yet	11:21
Stskeeps	but it is very modified and architecturally, it looks saner	11:22
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, supposedly the beta releases will be available for Diablo, so you can test to your heart's content.	11:22
Stskeeps	and if you can regulate when it scans..	11:22
RST38h	Sts: Given how touchy its developers are about performance, it is well worth checking	11:22
AStorm	btw, why do we even need such thing	11:22
Stskeeps	AStorm: media players. \o/	11:22
AStorm	but why track in bg	11:22
RST38h	AStorm: some people love this	11:22
AStorm	why not load on demand	11:22
Jaffa	AStorm: because things like Canola and MediaBox take 60 seconds to start with a small media library?	11:22
Stskeeps	RST38h: you can probably get a good searcher if you utilize directory events	11:23
RST38h	AStorm:not myself, but some others	11:23
AStorm	or preload before demand	11:23
RST38h	Jaffa: Do not enable index-on-startup	11:23
Jaffa	Stskeeps: wasn't tracker - in some mode - supposed to use inotify?	11:23
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Jaffa	RST38h: and then you have to update manually as an explicit step, which isn't very friendly either.	11:23
RST38h	Jaffa: No problem to me personally	11:23
AStorm	Jaffa, friendlier than grabbing battery	11:23
RST38h	Jaffa: I change content rarely, in big chunks	11:24
Jaffa	In theory, having a central repository of all media on the device isn't a bad idea. It's just implementation which matters.	11:24
AStorm	although inotify-based updater should be cheap	11:24
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, then your use-case is clearly covered.	11:24
GeneralAntilles	Most people dislike having to screw around with that shit.	11:24
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AStorm	Jaffa, yes	11:24
RST38h	General: yea, I understand	11:24
RST38h	General: Not sure about "most", but many do	11:24
AStorm	the trick is removing old entries	11:24
AStorm	nso as to make the database small	11:25
AStorm	and handling removable devices	11:25
RST38h	Jaffa: the actual thing that matters is how aggresively you index	11:25
RST38h	Jaffa: my feeling is that there is no "right" setting for this, so I just default to "index when I ask you"	11:26
AStorm	inotify-based indexing can be aggressive and unobtrusive	11:26
Jaffa	RST38h: See, you're assuming an implementation detail (which both metalayer and tracker used) of constantly scanning the filesystem for changes, when Linux provides event-based notifications for that.	11:26
AStorm	it will index after write	11:26
AStorm	Jaffa, fix then.	11:27
AStorm	immediately	11:27
AStorm	it's a grave bug not to use this	11:27
Jaffa	I suspect that tracker, certainly, falls back to inotify - but it needs to scan to find the starting position.	11:27
AStorm	what starting position?	11:27
Stskeeps	Jaffa: yeah, probably	11:27
Jaffa	Less of an issue on a fresh-out-of-the-box mobile device	11:27
RST38h	Jaffa: yea, but using inotify, as I understand, will shift delay from overal operation to file system accesses	11:27
AStorm	you mean like mp3 delay?	11:27
Jaffa	AStorm: RST38h is basing his comments on trying tracker on his desktop. It'll already have had a whole shit of stuff on his box which inotify wouldn't tell him about.	11:28
AStorm	RST38h, indeed, but you have the file in cache already	11:28
AStorm	Jaffa, have one time manual scan	11:28
RST38h	Jaffa: as I said, my question about cpu/power consumption of the "new" tracker has been promptly deleted	11:28
RST38h	AStorm: ah, that's a bit better	11:29
Jaffa	RST38h: indeed, worrying.	11:29
* GeneralAntilles wouldn't assume malice so quickly.		11:29
RST38h	Dunno	11:29
Jaffa	AStorm: Now you're picking over the UI of a product I've not used, not involved in or whatever. Personally, I can see why doing the initial scan on install or first-startup is a better use-case in a lot of cases than doing it manually. But the ideal would be a "Welcome to Tracker. Your filesystem is x% full and should be indexed as soon as possible to provide most effective use. [Scan now] [Remind later] [Will start manually later]"	11:30
Jaffa	But this is an irrelevant UI in a system component on a mobile device, so not pertinent to #maemo	11:30
AStorm	mhm	11:31
AStorm	I mean adding a directory should force an immediate scan... or maybe delayed one	11:31
RST38h	it is really a personal preference	11:31
AStorm	ui issue indeed	11:31
Stskeeps	RST38h: i'm happy as long as i can ask tracker not to run	11:31
RST38h	and we are not even talking about how you index but WHEN	11:31
AStorm	still, inotify has to be used.	11:31
Stskeeps	whereas metalayer-crawler was a bit of a hack to remove	11:31
Stskeeps	:P	11:31
RST38h	Sts: same here	11:31
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RST38h	Sts: My guess is we are not gonna get this option, but I am always a pessimist	11:32
AStorm	fortunately, we can fix this	11:32
Stskeeps	RST38h: yeah, but as AStorm says, we have the freedom to whack tracker to death :P	11:33
* Stskeeps still is laughing on the inside on the paid apps not working on adp1. :P		11:33
AStorm	have a control panel applet, for example	11:33
inz	http://inz.fi/blog/2009/02/27/scratchbox-on-amd64/	11:34
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Stskeeps	inz: thumbs up :) it's the most common complaint amongst users :P	11:34
AStorm	inz, :D	11:34
* Stskeeps wonders if alpha drop happens today		11:35
AStorm	ehh, why can't we just have blessed working sbox2?	11:36
AStorm	instead of crazy hacks like this one	11:36
qwerty12	sbox2 goes out of its way to be anal retentive	11:36
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Stskeeps	eh, when was last drop?	11:36
AStorm	then why nit have sbox1 fixed to work with vdso	11:37
AStorm	randomization	11:37
AStorm	I suspect some major stupidity going down there if it needs that disabled	11:37
RST38h	Sts: I wonder what the next android-related snafu is going to be	11:38
Stskeeps	RST38h: ADP1 phones requiring "activation key"	11:38
RST38h	Sts: 'cause Android just continues to deliver lulz =)	11:38
AStorm	woohoo, walled garden	11:38
Proteous	duh, you don't want people stealing your tomatoes	11:39
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Proteous	my garden has fuxing razor wire	11:39
* RST38h suggests inz to switch to a geniune Intel desktop		11:39
Proteous	intel makes CPUs not desktops	11:40
RST38h	Proteous: Do your tomatoes have teeth too? =)	11:40
Proteous	my desktop is formica	11:40
AStorm	wrong	11:40
AStorm	Centrino platform	11:40
RST38h	Proteous: Actually, Intel makes the whole platform	11:40
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AStorm	intel doesn't make peripherials though	11:40
RST38h	AStorm: makes flash memory	11:41
AStorm	but not pendrives	11:41
AStorm	so still not peripherials :P	11:41
AStorm	(or cards)	11:41
Corsac	there make the ADD card	11:41
Corsac	they*	11:41
RST38h	AStorm: http://www.intel.com/design/flash/NAND/mainstream/	11:41
Corsac	and they make motherboards	11:41
Corsac	which is kind-of a card :)	11:42
AStorm	nope and nope	11:42
AStorm	peripherial is stuff you put outside the box	11:42
AStorm	the logo is "intel inside" for a reason	11:42
AStorm	;)	11:42
Corsac	intel ahead	11:42
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RST38h	AStorm: Don't pay too much attention to whatever marketing department produces	11:43
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RST38h	Ah, my tracker question is back =)	11:43
RST38h	Must have been a glitch of some kind. No answer though.	11:44
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: ways around 3rd party apps so far: Skype (they point to .install file on their homepage, so can we.), Gizmo points to armel deb.	11:44
GeneralAntilles	Why are unbundled 3rd-party applications an issue?	11:45
AStorm	btw, do we have Skype 2 for armel already?	11:45
Stskeeps	well, i'm saying it's possible for users to grab :)	11:45
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, duh. :P	11:45
Stskeeps	without having to resort to upgrade repositories :P	11:46
* RST38h salivates over http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/02/27/review_laptop_12in_toshiba_portege_r600/		11:46
AStorm	12" is too large	11:47
AStorm	;>	11:47
GeneralAntilles	Tablet or bust	11:47
RST38h	AStorm: I use R100 as a desktop replacement	11:47
AStorm	uh, my desktop replacement is 17"	11:48
RST38h	i.e. 12" is a bit too small for me :) But will do, given the weight and size	11:48
AStorm	and just 133 PPI	11:48
AStorm	I'd love a larger resolution screen	11:48
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RST38h	you have got the tablet =)	11:49
* GeneralAntilles uses a desktop as his desktop replacement and a tablet as his laptop replacement.		11:49
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* Stskeeps ponders idly when there will be response on the 3rd party hw interfacing		11:51
Stskeeps	then again i'm probably just impatient :P	11:52
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* GeneralAntilles can only imagine Nokia Legal's priority list.		11:53
Stskeeps	hehe	11:53
GeneralAntilles	1. Keep Microsoft from suing.	11:53
GeneralAntilles	2. Avoid submarine patents.	11:53
timeless	that's about right	11:53
GeneralAntilles	3. Deal with whack-job Linux farkheads.	11:53
timeless	we talked about 1 yesterday before dinner	11:53
Stskeeps	ah, my 3. was dealing with RMS by feeling him children	11:54
Stskeeps	:P	11:54
Stskeeps	feeding	11:54
Stskeeps	timeless: yeah, some of those patents are -nasty-	11:54
timeless	they were early and smart	11:54
Stskeeps	(looking at tomtom case)	11:54
timeless	sadly, they really constrain what can be done	11:55
Stskeeps	timeless: i do wonder how many patents nokia has that android and such probably infringes though :P	11:55
timeless	"i don't want to know"	11:55
timeless	finding out can be very bad for people who work in certain areas	11:55
Stskeeps	yeah	11:55
GeneralAntilles	It's interesting that no lightweight free alternative to FAT has come forward.	11:55
RST38h	Sts: He is probably a vegetarian, judging from how wacky he is overally	11:55
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: it's no use if cameras don't use them, so	11:56
timeless	wouldn't something which tries to emulate fat still hit fat patents?	11:56
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, I think at least having something embedded vendors could consider would be a start.	11:57
RST38h	General: FAT isn't there because it is technically superior, it is there because everybody uses it	11:57
GeneralAntilles	timeless, hehe, I was just considering a translation layer that shows an EXT*/UBIFS volume as FAT to a PC connected via USB.	11:57
timeless	it's also simple and easy to implement	11:57
RST38h	So, any alternative will end up like Ogg Vorbis	11:57
GeneralAntilles	^	11:57
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, I wouldn't be surprised about it not being picked up, just about there being no options available.	12:00
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RST38h	General: lemme google ;)	12:07
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, good point.	12:08
* GeneralAntilles is hardly familiar with all free filesystems.		12:08
GeneralAntilles	Though I'd assume if there were something I'd've heard about it.	12:08
RST38h	general: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_memory#Flash_file_systems	12:08
RST38h	The explanation is somewhat unexpected too	12:08
RST38h	"These removable flash memory devices use the FAT file system to allow universal compatibility with computers, cameras, PDAs and other portable devices with memory card slots or ports."	12:09
AStorm	compatibility, yup	12:09
RST38h	In other words, "FAT" you see is not necessarily what is used by the drive	12:09
RST38h	It is just a simulation layer to make Windows read it	12:09
AStorm	it usually is.	12:09
AStorm	nope	12:09
RST38h	Flash file systems: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Flash_file_system	12:10
AStorm	nowadays they use that funky MS camera protocol	12:10
RST38h	AStorm: They still fall back to umass	12:10
AStorm	ah, you mean USB devices	12:10
AStorm	those do simulate FAT	12:10
RST38h	SD cards as well	12:11
AStorm	yes	12:11
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Stskeeps	'lo zenvoid	12:12
GeneralAntilles	I don't really care about what's going on at a lower-level here, though, just avoiding having to use FAT without having a compatibility impact.	12:12
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RST38h	Can't	12:13
RST38h	Unless you would like it to simulate NTFS of course :)	12:13
AStorm	nah, ntfs can't be read by most mobile devices	12:14
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zenvoid	Stskeeps: hello. I have a question for you ;-)	12:14
Stskeeps	zenvoid: shoot :)	12:14
zenvoid	Stskeeps: I can't find the SBOX_COMPILER_ARGS variable, where is it?	12:14
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, in our case, why not?	12:15
GeneralAntilles	Format the built-in card as EXT3, then show a FAT device to things connected via USB.	12:15
Stskeeps	zenvoid: export SBOX_EXTRA_COMPILER_ARGS="-Wno-poison-system-directories -march=armv5te"	12:15
Stskeeps	before running scratchbox	12:15
* GeneralAntilles wonders why a lot of the itT ads are no longer being blocked.		12:17
Stskeeps	t.m.o will be ad-free?	12:17
GeneralAntilles	Yes	12:17
zenvoid	Stskeeps: heh, thanks	12:17
* Stskeeps is seriously wondering what causes this bloody wifi problem		12:18
Stskeeps	(on n8x0)	12:18
zenvoid	Now I undestand why "grep -r SBOX_COMPILER_ARGS" in sbox sources doesn't returned anything :D	12:19
Stskeeps	hehe	12:19
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Stskeeps	still in dependancy hell? :)	12:20
zenvoid	this time I was just trying several things :)	12:21
zenvoid	wondering if "-march=armv6j -mtune=arm1136jf-s -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp" would make any speed difference in the n8x0	12:22
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Stskeeps	ah	12:23
Stskeeps	we need some investigations into HWCAP at least	12:23
Stskeeps	suihkulokki was looking at them i think	12:23
zenvoid	that also would be interesting to know	12:24
* GeneralAntilles bangs head against the wall @ "freemantle".		12:25
Stskeeps	zenvoid: i have a xomap building for mer btw if you want to experiment with it. It seems to have spooky interaction with HIM (works not in fields but it works in osso-xterm..)	12:26
GeneralAntilles	They all must be doing it intentionally.	12:27
GeneralAntilles	People can't really be this thick.	12:27
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Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: mental slip just like "the the"?	12:27
Stskeeps	you should do a "I'm GeneralAntilles and i pronounce Fremantle as Fr3mantel" wav	12:28
Stskeeps	:P	12:28
Stskeeps	or something	12:28
qwerty12	Stskeeps, you should have called Mer freemantle :P	12:28
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, it's all too consistent to be a slip up.	12:28
GeneralAntilles	freemantle for maemo	12:28
aquatix	GeneralAntilles: i think they pronounce it freemantle in their head	12:28
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GeneralAntilles	freemantle for Maemo.org	12:28
aquatix	i know i do it like that	12:28
Stskeeps	maemo5. :P	12:28
aquatix	so Fremantle soon becomes Freemantle by accident	12:29
RST38h	General: Just leave it be, at least they do not write it as "free mantle"	12:29
aquatix	ghehe	12:29
Jaffa	aquatix: that's how "fremantle" is pronounced (AIUI)	12:29
aquatix	Jaffa: yeah	12:29
* RST38h still mourns for the Elephanta. That would be one hell of a release name.		12:29
aquatix	so it's just some freudian thing then, i guess	12:29
aquatix	RST38h: :)	12:30
Stskeeps	Mantle (mollusc), an organ used by mollusks to secrete their shells	12:30
* Stskeeps ponders.		12:30
zenvoid	Stskeeps: sure, it is xomap in the repo?	12:31
Stskeeps	xserver-xomap but i'm unsure where it is, hm	12:32
RST38h	Sts: Fmermantle as a MeR release!	12:34
roope	At least all Finns pronounce it with only one "e".	12:34
* RST38h has no idea how Finns pronounce "e" thouggh =)		12:34
Stskeeps	RST38h: my pet peeve is people calling Mer MeR (i don't blame them though. Original name was M-R)	12:35
GAN800	MER	12:35
GAN800	Maemo Emergency Reconsideration	12:36
* GAN800 is going to blow up his tablet the next time MicroB tops itself.		12:36
qwerty12	That wont take long to happen then	12:37
GAN800	timeless, this attention whoring behavior can't be healthy. :(	12:37
timeless	yeah well... um	12:37
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timeless	how about i get lunch ? :P)	12:38
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jeremiah_	hello good maemoians :)	12:46
qwerty12	morning :)	12:47
jeremiah_	Do any of you hotshot development people use lintian when you create packages for maemo?	12:48
jeremiah_	(lintian is the debian policy checker for those who don't know.)	12:49
qwerty12	<guilty-look>no</guilty-look>	12:49
jeremiah_	heh	12:49
jeremiah_	:)	12:49
RST38h	No, packaging is too much hassle as it is	12:49
jeremiah_	RST38h: Yeah - fair point.	12:49
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jeremiah_	RST38h: What are the pain points? What sucks about packagingg?	12:50
jeremiah_	How can we fix it.	12:50
RST38h	jeremiah: many disconnected config files to make changes to	12:50
jeremiah_	Okay.	12:50
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RST38h	makefile, control, changes, etc.	12:50
jeremiah_	yeah.	12:50
RST38h	debian tools breaking for weird sb-related reasons	12:51
jeremiah_	sb-related?	12:51
RST38h	(I am using sb2 though, so I have been warned :))	12:51
jeremiah_	Oh, scratchbox	12:51
RST38h	Right now, whatever Perl scripts deb packager runs all complain about some locale misconfiguration	12:51
RST38h	Very noisily, too	12:51
jeremiah_	I suppose I should look at the buglist to find more scratchbox - debian issues.	12:52
RST38h	That is latest SB2 + Etch tools I think	12:52
jeremiah_	RST38h: Yeah, that is a hassle.	12:52
jeremiah_	I have had that in debian and in Ubuntu	12:52
jeremiah_	I will work on fixing that.	12:52
RST38h	Also, I am making binary only packages (none of my stuff is GPLed) so I have it a bit easier than the rest	12:52
jeremiah_	how so?	12:53
RST38h	No need to deal with autobuilder	12:53
jeremiah_	Ah.	12:53
jeremiah_	So the autobuilder is a source of frustration?	12:53
RST38h	AFAIK yes	12:53
jeremiah_	okay.	12:53
jeremiah_	I am going to look carefully at autobuilder logs to try to eliminate some of that stuff.	12:54
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RST38h	There is also a long standing request to autogenerate changes section from the deb package	12:54
darktears	mmm scratchbox seems to be done	12:54
darktears	down	12:54
darktears	is there any mirrors where i can get tarballs?	12:54
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RST38h	I.e. when a deb package is dput (dputted? :)) to the repo, the server should extract changes list (and probably some other stuff like icon, app name etc) and automatically copy it to the maemo.org project page	12:55
jeremiah_	RST38h: You mean just to automatically create a complete change log from debian's - this is pretty much already done with dch	12:55
RST38h	Right now, doing it manually. No much hassle for a single package but becomes a chore when I commit 4-5	12:55
jeremiah_	RST38h: I agree 100% with that - that should happen.	12:56
RST38h	jeremiah: The idea is not just to generate the log but to make it show at the maemo.org project page	12:56
jeremiah_	Now I get it.	12:56
RST38h	package also carries an icon and a full app name, etc - all these can be made use of	12:56
GAN800	'project page'? Downloads or Garage?	12:56
jeremiah_	darktears: What exactly is down for you?	12:56
RST38h	Downloads	12:56
darktears	jeremiah_: sorry the website	12:57
RST38h	garage pages are not directly related to deb packages (usually)	12:57
darktears	scratchbox.org	12:57
RST38h	jeremiah: For the bottomless bin of requests, I suggest you talk to the guys improving Maemo App manager. That would be Jaffa and a few other folks	12:58
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RST38h	jeremiah: They are basically discussing much tighter integration of app manager with the repos (or extras repo at least)	12:58
jeremiah_	Did you try to install it using the scratchbox installer script from maemo.org?	12:59
jeremiah_	darktears: ^^	12:59
darktears	yes it wget on scratchbox.org	12:59
jeremiah_	RST38h: Okay, will do.	12:59
darktears	screwed	12:59
jeremiah_	darktears: ah, okay.	12:59
jeremiah_	That's not good.	13:00
darktears	i didn't find any mirros somewhere...	13:00
darktears	mirrors	13:00
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notcoolbuthot	.	13:01
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jeremiah_	darktears: I have filed a bug about it.	13:04
jeremiah_	Seems to be some other related internet issues in Finaland as well, can't reach movial.fi	13:05
jeremiah_	Finland has fallen off the internet.	13:05
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darktears	loool	13:06
ShadowJK	not all of it	13:06
darktears	at least having mirrors in case can be good :D, scratchbox is not big	13:06
timelE61i	wE're here	13:06
darktears	jeremiah_: but thanks	13:07
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jeremiah_	yay! At least timeless is online.	13:07
jeremiah_	:)	13:07
timelE61i	more like waiting for a manager who is late for a meeting	13:07
jeremiah_	aha	13:07
timelE61i	So... I still need a solution	13:08
timelE61i	I'm tempted to just have my packages refuse to uninstall	13:08
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jeremiah_	timelE61i: Yes - I am still working on it, there are a couple other things on my plate too, but I have not given up.	13:16
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andre__	errr.... how should we fix a 3rd party server that is down?	13:25
andre__	what is a " scratchbox.org is down " report about? to use more mirrors in the scripts? otherwise it's invalid...	13:26
Stskeeps	heh, if movial went bankrupt maemo sdk installer would be fried? :P (didn't read bug report)	13:27
timeless	andre: you can find a contact and report upstream :)	13:27
timeless	"hey, foopy, your servers are down"	13:27
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andre__	errr	13:28
timeless	but we could also host our own mirror	13:28
timeless	relying on a third party for the sdk is um...	13:28
andre__	well, it happens all the time. same problem with some external dependencies in gnome :-P	13:28
andre__	this is the internet	13:28
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lcuk2	ermmmm could someone give me warning if movial get into difficulties and decide to have an omap3 firesale	13:48
lcuk2	;)	13:48
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* Stskeeps tries out prelinking on 770 for kicks.		13:53
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igagis	does anybody know how to disable screen tap sound for a particular application?	13:59
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timelE61i	igagis: err	14:01
igagis	timelE61i: ?	14:01
timelE61i	If the user turns on or off sound globally	14:01
timelE61i	Why should your app ignore the user's will?	14:02
igagis	hm... my application produces its own sound on screen tap	14:02
igagis	and when there is that default sound played in parallel it sounds bad	14:02
timelE61i	and if the user turns off screen sounds?	14:02
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igagis	actually my application is made to produce sounds	14:03
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timelE61i	Anyway.. Standard technique:	14:04
timelE61i	1. Make a backup of your settings	14:04
igagis	my app is a kind of musical instrumen, when you tap screen it produces sound	14:04
timelE61i	2. Change the setting you don't know about from control panel	14:04
timelE61i	3. Make a new backup	14:05
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timelE61i	4. The backups are zip files	14:05
timelE61i	You can compare them	14:05
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jeremiah_	andre__: Well, I thought I should report it to someone . . .	14:05
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jeremiah_	andre__: Where should a report about scratchbox.org being down go to?	14:05
timelE61i	Similarly, you can zip /var/lib/gconf which is where settings actually live	14:05
timelE61i	And diff that	14:05
igagis	ok, understood	14:05
igagis	but I wonder how other applications which works with sound disable that tapping sounds?	14:06
igagis	the best way would be to disable tap sounds only for my application, while, if user taps outside the application window the tap sound would still play... is it possible?	14:07
igagis	Thus, I need to disable these sound only for a life time of the application	14:07
igagis	timelE61i: from your explanation it looks like these sounds are produced somewhere in low level layers, possibly on driver level, so, it is not possible to control it per application, only system wide, by changing system settings. And also not possible from application. Anyway, thanks for help!	14:13
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Stskeeps	igagis: you can probably temporarily switch it in gconf though	14:13
timelE61i	i haven't read the sources	14:14
andre__	jeremiah_, to someone who can fix it :-D	14:14
timelE61i	But the way it works is the sound is triggered early	14:14
andre__	(means: no idea)	14:15
timelE61i	Long before the app gets the message	14:15
timelE61i	So the user knows that the system is going to respond	14:15
qwerty12_N800	the tap sound is produced by the closed source multimediad	14:15
igagis	Ok, I may be thinking to switch it on gconf temporarily somehow...	14:16
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lcuk2	igagis, look at boxar	14:31
lcuk2	it does same thing	14:31
lcuk2	alternatively pyano does as well	14:31
lcuk2	not sure about the tap click sound, but it might be depending on which widget set you are clicking on	14:31
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igagis	lcuk2: ok, I'll have alook at boxar, thanks	14:46
jeremiah_	andre__: Who might that be?	14:47
jeremiah_	Nokia owns the domain name	14:47
timelE61i	scratchbox.org?	14:49
andre__	Movial, not Nokia	14:50
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Myrtti	hello kids	14:52
andre__	hi mum	14:52
* lcuk2 practices juknitku but gets himself tied in knots		14:53
lcuk2	ello Myrtti	14:53
* Myrtti pinches andre__s cheek		14:53
Stskeeps	morning Myrtti	14:54
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lcuk2	Stskeeps, if i rerun the flashing thing for mer again will it just overwrite everything on the mmc again	15:06
Stskeeps	which now?	15:06
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lcuk2	the same	15:06
Stskeeps	flashing thing = which one :)	15:07
lcuk2	what ill do is rerun it and actually note down the observations	15:07
lcuk2	lol	15:07
lcuk2	installation of mer from scratch	15:07
Stskeeps	it should overwrite everything yes	15:07
lcuk2	ill talk to you later about it anyway then, but if i make a note whilst doing it it may be easier to diagnose and find any root causes for things	15:08
lcuk2	catch ya later on	15:08
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oli	can mplayer on n800 play rmvb files?	15:20
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sisto	anyone know how to switch between sheets on gnumeric for maemo?	15:21
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sisto	-.-	15:23
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timelE61i	the isp claims it should be up in an hour	15:28
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timelE61i	But people should use sbox2 ;)	15:28
qwerty12_N800	If they find getting pissed off a favourite pastime, then yes	15:29
Stskeeps	sb2 could be a lot saner, truely	15:29
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Stskeeps	~seen johnx	15:49
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infobot	johnx <n=john@p2172-ipbf2302hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 7d 19h 15m 4s ago, saying: 'wazd, nice find :)'.	15:51
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Jaffa	Palm webOS detailed examples of producing apps: http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/27/palm-finally-manages-to-bore-us-to-tears-with-webos-mojo-sdk-tut/	16:06
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rm_you	Stskeeps: yeah dunno where he disappeared to...	16:18
rm_you	Stskeeps: i've been looking for him for a while <_<	16:18
* rm_you runs		16:18
Stskeeps	alright, we'll see :P hope he's alright	16:19
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lcuk2	thanks jaffa, ill look later	16:20
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thopiekar	jeremiah_: please write back if you are online..	16:29
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RST38h	Who are these entities? What are they doing? http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/9052_Nokias_Connected_Worlds_To_Dis.php	16:35
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Stskeeps	'Spellbound Hermit'?	16:36
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Stskeeps	ah, true. SL.	16:36
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Myrtti	ewwwww secondlife	16:36
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* Stskeeps ponders how to improve performance on 770		16:38
inz	liquid nitrogen?	16:39
inz	i bet you'd get 5GHz out of that baby	16:40
Stskeeps	cyanide might do it. die before it's loaded, go to heaven anyway	16:40
Stskeeps	:P	16:40
jeremiah_	thopiekar: Hi there!	16:41
Stskeeps	tried prelink but it didn't work :)	16:41
thopiekar	jeremiah_: where are my streamripper packages I uploaded to extras before?	16:41
jeremiah_	I'm not sure thopiekar. :)	16:42
thopiekar	hmm.. uploading them again?	16:42
jeremiah_	I don't think anyone removed them, if that's what you mean.	16:42
thopiekar	:P	16:42
jeremiah_	I know I didn't, and I doubt X-Fade did. :)	16:43
thopiekar	:D	16:43
jeremiah_	I can take a peak though . . .	16:43
* jeremiah_ looks in the repos for thopiekar's packages		16:43
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jeremiah_	I see streamripper 1.63 in extras	16:46
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thopiekar	hmm I was looking for them in the promotion list of diablo but they where nowhere in the list I think... thanks for looking anyway :P	16:47
jeremiah_	Sure thing!	16:48
woodong50	when next version is out?	16:48
jeremiah_	Of Maemo?	16:49
woodong50	n810	16:49
jeremiah_	Next version of what?	16:49
thopiekar	jeremiah_: maemo.. :P	16:49
woodong50	n900	16:49
* Myrtti takes out her crystal ball		16:50
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RST38h	jeremiah: About autobuilder:	16:50
thopiekar	Myrtti: :D	16:50
RST38h	jeremiah: There is a Python guy who was having problems with it. The nickname is Khertan, at this channel	16:50
Myrtti	squeak squeak	16:50
Myrtti	a bit spotty reception, must be because I sneezed on it	16:51
RST38h	jeremiah: For C/C++ autobuilder users, I guess it is lardman, qwerty12, Stskeeps	16:51
Stskeeps	i have never touched autobuilder. :P	16:51
thopiekar	Myrtti: ;D	16:51
jeremiah_	RST38h:ah, okay.	16:51
RST38h	Ok, scratch Sts out =)	16:51
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RST38h	jeremiah: two more packaging related issues:	16:52
RST38h	jeremiah: 1) installing stuff into ~ and 2) installing data to /dev/mmc*	16:52
RST38h	sorry/ media/mmc*	16:53
jeremiah_	woodong50: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_roadmap/Fremantle	16:53
jeremiah_	RST38h: Hmm, installing into ~/ should not be hard.	16:53
RST38h	jeremiah: #1 has no decent solution right now, you have to resort to referring to /home/user directly but (fortunately) we have only got one user :)	16:53
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RST38h	jeremiah: #2 is usually done with one or another hack, but it is usually not pretty and a lot of packagers do not do it	16:54
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jeremiah_	RST38h: So you mean ~ does not work as an alias for /home/user?	16:54
RST38h	jeremiah: if you use ~ in the Makefile of a deb package, it causes some problems	16:55
RST38h	jeremiah: I don't remember what exact problems, but it does not work	16:55
RST38h	jeremiah: about #2: N8x0 / device is only 256MB in size and with some packages easily exceeding 10MB it gets filled up very very quickly	16:56
RST38h	jeremiah: So, a semistandard method of offloading ALL non-executable stuff to an mmc is a must (and packagers SHOULD use it)	16:57
jeremiah_	Interesting.	16:57
jeremiah_	An An mmc is a multi media card?	16:58
RST38h	Yes	16:58
RST38h	There are two MMCs, N800 has them both external, N810 has a 2GB /media/mmc2 soldered to the board	16:58
jeremiah_	Yeah. I think better documentation around that (in fact both those issues) would help.	16:58
pupnik	big packages like games can usually have their data reside on mmc	16:59
RST38h	My guess is that mmc2 should be the default data location, with an option to select mmc1	16:59
jeremiah_	I can vaguely recall that ~ is significant to debian packages so that is unlikely to get fixed.	16:59
rm_you	Myrtti: I played around with KnitML a bit, tried to understand that, somewhat failed because the only stitch I know is like... k2p2 and k2tog >_> had my GF try to explain others to me but failed	16:59
RST38h	jeremiah: remember that we build packages in scratchbox	16:59
RST38h	jeremiah: and scratchbox is somewhat of a schizo, sometimes it behaves like guest, other times like host	16:59
jeremiah_	RST38h: Okay. I need to do more work in Scratchbox to understand the environment better	17:00
RST38h	jeremiah: and sb2 too :)	17:00
jeremiah_	So right now we have _two_ development environments?	17:00
RST38h	Yes.	17:00
jeremiah_	Both supported?	17:00
qwerty12_N800	anybody using irssi from -devel btw? want to see if i can promote it (i'm not an irssi 'xpert & only did basic testing).	17:01
RST38h	SB2 is a "beta" but it is supported if you ask right people nicely	17:01
jeremiah_	I see.	17:01
RST38h	SB2 is by far saner, but still on the clinical side	17:01
jeremiah_	Sheesh, things are a bit complicated.	17:01
RST38h	unfortunately.	17:01
jeremiah_	Just like real life. :)	17:02
RST38h	actually, more complicated	17:02
jeremiah_	heh	17:02
jeremiah_	true	17:02
RST38h	in real life, we would just have a cross compiler toolchain	17:02
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RST38h	Like I have for SigmaTel or ICNexus platforms	17:03
* Jaffa scrollsback a bit - packages shouldn't be installing into ~ (or /home/user) any more than they should on Ubuntu or Debian (i.e. not at all)		17:03
* Jaffa 's done C stuff with autobuilder (e.g. vim package from mud-builder)		17:04
RST38h	Jaffa: There are cases when they should. I need to create a directory to save app state for example	17:04
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Jaffa	RST38h: No, you still shouldn't do that on install. Your app should create the dir if necessary when saving the state	17:05
jeremiah_	Shouldn't that kind of thing go into /var/cache? Or some such?	17:05
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RST38h	Jaffa: I need to place some initial state files there	17:05
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Jaffa	RST38h: and, again, initial state files shouldn't be in /home/user - this'd all break horribly if your app was used on a multi user system (e.g. Mer at some point, perhaps - or maybe even Maemo)	17:06
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* jeremiah_ reads his dead tree version of Maemo Packaging policy		17:06
RST38h	Jaffa: maybe you are right, I have to rethink it	17:06
RST38h	Jaffa: it will require some internal changes in the app though	17:06
Jaffa	RST38h: if it's single user stuff, and the state needs to be held - then as jeremiah_ says, use /var/cache or /usr/share or something	17:06
RST38h	Yea	17:06
Jaffa	RST38h: no doubt - it sounds a little shonky at the moment ;-)	17:06
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* Jaffa 's been doing code reviews all morning, and debugging a Hibernate weirdity. Probably not the most forgiving of architectural hiccups at the moment :)		17:07
lcuk2	i tohught you did not maintain anything statewise outside of ~	17:07
RST38h	eek	17:07
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Sargun_Screen	Jaffa: fun stuff. :-P	17:07
RST38h	lcuk: ~/.ati85/*.RAM =)	17:08
lcuk2	jeremiah_, how do you follow links with these "dead tree" documents?	17:08
Jaffa	Sargun_Screen: I think it might be a Hibernate bug: it works on a version of our database with a single id column, but not on a composite key version.	17:08
lcuk2	jeremiah_, get yourself a NIT and read from there	17:09
jeremiah_	lcuk2: It is exceedingly painful. :P	17:09
jeremiah_	I press the link until my fingers bleed.	17:09
jeremiah_	Then give up.	17:09
Sargun_Screen	Jaffa: hibernation is a hack.	17:09
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Jaffa	Sargun_Screen: This is hibernate.org, not Linux hibernate FWIW	17:09
jeremiah_	The packaging policy says;	17:10
pupnik	I think it will change... i don't think it will disappear entirely.	17:10
jeremiah_	Section 9, 9.1 File system Hierarchy	17:10
Jaffa	jeremiah_: Kinda like http://www.magnetnerd.com/Neodymium%20Magnets/Dirks%20Accident.htm (not for the squeamish - or those afraid of magenets)	17:10
jeremiah_	"TODO: This section has not been written yet."	17:10
Sargun_Screen	Jaffa: any kind of hibernation. :-)	17:10
Sargun_Screen	Jaffa: i saw that last night, scary stuff.	17:11
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jeremiah_	Jaffa: That was nasty!	17:11
jeremiah_	Jaffa: Now I scared of magnets.	17:12
qwerty12_N800	Jaffa: I stole one of those magnets when I took an old HD apart :)	17:12
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RST38h	jeremiah: You should really ask Nokia to give you a personal NIT	17:15
RST38h	jeremiah: It makes reading stuff on the go way easier	17:15
lcuk2	jaffa, is that the guy who crushed his index finger?	17:15
lcuk2	or the one who tried reading maemo app policy :P	17:16
Jaffa	lcuk2: the former :)	17:17
lcuk2	i saw that, those neobomdium (spelling way off i know) magnets are lethal, after reading that i went reading up on the consequences of ingesting 1 or more of them	17:17
lcuk2	its not something you want to do	17:18
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ezadkiel_mB	scratchbox.org down?	17:22
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Jaffa	ezadkiel_mB: apparently	17:23
ezadkiel_mB	Jaffa: thanks	17:23
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jeremiah_	RST38h: I did ask for one, they said it is in the mail. :)	17:29
jeremiah_	I will buy one myself it does not turn up soon though.	17:29
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michael3	How can I run avahi-daemon in the scratchbox? [sbox-DIABLO_ARMEL: /etc/default] > fakeroot avahi-daemon -D	17:44
michael3	This program is intended to be run as root.	17:44
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slonopotamus	woot! launched lxde on gentoo today	18:44
slonopotamus	that's cool :) virtual kb + browser and bye-bye, hildon :)	18:44
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Corsac	wow	18:48
Corsac	http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/02/27/vmware-mvp-weds-windows-ce-and-android-in-unholy-matrimony-on-du/	18:48
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lcuk2	RST38h, you mentioned a while ago you have some apps on s60, just looking through now, and whilst theres the brainfsck of c++ to wade through im not seeing anything technical that says i cant move liqbase over to it. theres full screen interaction stuff available from what i can see	18:54
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pupnik	Rebel Moon!	18:56
lcuk2	thats no moon!	18:56
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Stskeeps	Jaffa: multiple devices may make sense though, and different storage sizes	19:02
Proteous	it's like a thousand voices cried out, then were silenced	19:02
Stskeeps	i mean, we do clearly see phone stuff, but they also said next tablet is 3g-only :P	19:02
Stskeeps	(and hey, i'd love choice. :P)	19:02
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lcuk2	do i remember rightly about the multiple form factors.	19:04
lcuk2	wasnt it something ragnar said when discussing the dpad	19:04
Proteous	either you choose to be at your desk on time from now on, or you choose to find yourself another job	19:04
Proteous	do I make myself clear Mr. Anderson?	19:05
Stskeeps	Proteous: damnit, why do you have to complain when i come into work in boxers only on casual friday. :P	19:05
Proteous	heh	19:05
Jaffa	Stskeeps: where did they say next tablet is 3G only? Multiple storage sizes I can believe, but I have difficulty believing in different form factors	19:05
* Proteous closes his eyes and wishes as hard as he can for a dpad that can be used for games		19:06
qwerty12	Proteous, Yes, Mr. Rhineheart. Perfectly clear.	19:06
Stskeeps	Jaffa: hmm, thought it was on slides from summit. i may be wrong.	19:06
Jaffa	They're certainly ensuring that in future Nokia will be able to have multiple Maemo devices in various form factors; I just don't think it's yet (although I wait to be pleasantly surprised)	19:06
Stskeeps	but they have emphasized hsdpa -data- often, i think :P	19:06
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Proteous	Thomas Anderson?	19:06
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Jaffa	Stskeeps: They've only said positives about it having HSPA data. They're never ruled anything else out	19:07
woglinde	re	19:07
qwerty12	Proteous, Neo! Man, get with it! :P	19:07
Proteous	no no no, that's the next line, the fedex guy	19:07
Proteous	you are suppose to say, Yeah, that's me	19:07
Jaffa	Stskeeps: I can't reconcile what we've seen about the phone stuff with a decent tabletesque form factor; unless it's reliant on BT headsets (and we know we're getting A2DP and AVRCP)	19:07
Proteous	then I say, have a nice day	19:07
qwerty12	Hello, Neo. Do you know who this is?	19:07
Proteous	!!! morphius?	19:08
qwerty12	Yes.	19:08
Proteous	I don't remember the next part well enough :P	19:08
Stskeeps	Jaffa: on the other hand, telephony-maemo in bluez..	19:08
qwerty12	Proteous, so don't I... :P	19:08
Proteous	When I tell you go to the end of the row, to the door at the end of the hall	19:09
Proteous	NOW	19:09
Proteous	aaaanyway	19:09
lcuk2	jaffa, we have multiple form factors now, and as brother and sister the 800/810 are, they are totally different in terms of usability and expectations from users	19:10
Proteous	yeah, the 810 is way better	19:10
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Jaffa	Stskeeps: indeed	19:10
Proteous	I mean, who wouldn't want a keyboard	19:11
lcuk2	the keyboard is the principle differentiator for these devices	19:11
Proteous	WHO WOULDN'T I ASK YOU!!	19:11
Proteous	WHO	19:11
slonopotamus	Stskeeps, did you have ugly touchscreen behaviour in lxde?	19:11
Jaffa	lcuk2: The N810 replaced the N800. Nokia never intended them to be complimentary devices on sale at the same time.	19:11
Myrtti	I wouldn't want a keyboard.	19:11
lcuk2	Proteous, you can get by without a keyboard if the touchscreen is efficient enough	19:11
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: hmm?	19:11
Proteous	get by, GET BY	19:11
Myrtti	I bought specifically n800 because it doesn't have a keyboard.	19:11
Proteous	you can have your "get by"	19:11
Jaffa	N810W and N810 are the first two Maemo devices in production at the same time properly	19:11
Proteous	heh	19:11
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slonopotamus	Stskeeps, it doesn't handle mouse_up well	19:12
lcuk2	Myrtti, a lot are fine without it (iphone mindset) but an awful lot cant live without em	19:12
* Myrtti feels unloved		19:12
Proteous	most people buy the n800 for the two mem card slots	19:12
Proteous	other then that it's just a larger version of the 810	19:12
lcuk2	slonopotamus, mouse up from the tablets gets lost occasionally if the cpu is busy (at least in maemo)	19:12
Proteous	with a worse screen	19:12
Myrtti	Proteous: n810 doesn't have the correct keyboard layout, so I don't want to pay for a wrong one	19:12
lcuk2	Myrtti, why unloved?	19:13
* Stskeeps dislikes the n810 keyboard too personally		19:13
Proteous	I don't think it's amazing, but I like it better then the fricking onscreen one	19:13
Myrtti	lcuk2: because Proteous tells me I'm a freak! snif	19:13
Proteous	heh	19:13
slonopotamus	Stskeeps, tapping once counnts as mouce_down, not down + up	19:13
Proteous	I wouldn't listen to anything I say	19:13
lcuk2	i prefer the keyboard on 810 no matter how imperfect it is, its STILL better than my old zx81 or rubber keyed spectrum!	19:14
Myrtti	pft.	19:14
Proteous	hah	19:14
woglinde	luck hahahaaaa	19:14
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Stskeeps	slonopotamus: ah, no clue. you have our input-tslib?	19:15
Proteous	best thumb keyboard ever was on my HP 48gx	19:15
slonopotamus	argh	19:15
slonopotamus	Stskeeps, i used one from gentoo repo	19:15
slonopotamus	Stskeeps, good catch	19:16
slonopotamus	Stskeeps, it's patched too?	19:16
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slonopotamus	Stskeeps, i saw that you had 0.0.5 and i had 0.0.5. i assumed they're equal :)	19:17
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: there's a bug in it afaik	19:18
Stskeeps	regarding tap	19:18
Stskeeps	lemme find i	19:18
Stskeeps	t	19:18
Stskeeps	https://code.launchpad.net/~mer-committers/m-r/xf86-input-tslib	19:19
slonopotamus	Stskeeps, and tslib is 1.0 on my side	19:19
Stskeeps	good	19:19
Stskeeps	same as us	19:19
slonopotamus	Stskeeps, where 'patch for button release' comes from?	19:21
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slonopotamus	andd who is John Bloom :D	19:21
qwerty12	John Bloom is johnx	19:21
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: some bug report in debian	19:21
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slonopotamus	Stskeeps, thanks for support :)	19:22
slonopotamus	found it: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=501139	19:22
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slonopotamus	ah. maybe just disable variance module? does it do anything useful?	19:24
Stskeeps	no clue	19:24
Stskeeps	the patch i have works	19:24
slonopotamus	k.	19:25
slonopotamus	next question. udev times out with bluez-utils installed and then barfs something about hci0.	19:26
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Stskeeps	do you have the ln -s's to firmware?	19:27
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Stskeeps	bc4fw.bin i think	19:27
slonopotamus	argh. nope.	19:27
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lcuk2	http://www.androidauthority.com/index.php/2009/02/20/video-of-texas-instruments-zoom-with-omap3-processor/ i want one of those!	20:06
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Jaffa	lcuk2: Ref. board for the RX-51? ;-)	20:08
florian	lcuk: these are cute yes... well, the price could be worse.	20:09
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lcuk	$1000-$1500 technically not that bad lol	20:09
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florian	lcuk: hum well... its not really a consumer device	20:10
Jaffa	Beer o'clock	20:10
lcuk	florian, dont expect it to be, hows your beagle coming on?	20:10
lcuk	mmmmmmm beer	20:10
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florian	lcuk: yes pretty good - except of the fact that i lack the time to do the interesting things with it I have in mind	20:11
lcuk	lol i wouldv jumped on one by now if it was all nicely built like that ref board ^	20:12
lcuk	i too would be sat there staring at a bare circuit board	20:12
florian	:)	20:13
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lcuk	jaffa, have you put any thoughts to your movie converter recently. is there anything you would liek it to do but cant so far, or things you think might become possible with hspa access etc	20:17
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Jaffa	lcuk: There's apparently a bug in it relating to subtitles; it probably could improve DVD ripping by trying to identify episode names/movie names by default (somehow); and it'll need a rename if they're not "tablets"; but the encoding side of it seems pretty feature complete - apart from a nice GUI	20:19
Jaffa	lcuk: you offering to code stuff, or give me freebies? ;-)	20:20
lcuk	im just pondering about desktop interaction and your app touches on it :)	20:20
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lcuk	obviously mud builder is the other one that rolls around often ;) but for other reasons	20:21
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Jaffa	lcuk: some thumbnail & metadate generation for liq* could work	20:22
lcuk	entirely possible with tracker underneath, thats its prime function isnt it	20:22
lcuk	though i personally dont like media libraries :D	20:23
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lcuk	jaffa, i hope what im writing will work, so far its going kinda smoothly, and i think im over my biggest humps, but the biggest challenges lie ahead..	20:27
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DavidePalm	Would it be difficult to install the os so it would boot from one of the cards? to have more space for programs? or is it possible to force programs to install on the sd card?	20:30
Jaffa	:)	20:30
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Jaffa	DavidePalm: see...	20:30
qwerty12	~boot-sd	20:30
infobot	i heard boot-sd is https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card	20:30
Jaffa	ta	20:30
DavidePalm	thx	20:30
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straind	Anybody have a kismet package for the 770?	20:30
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DavidePalm	Jaffa To improve performance (note, this is dependent on the quality of your flash card).	20:35
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DavidePalm	what does that mean?	20:35
DavidePalm	what sd card is better than the flash memory?	20:35
DavidePalm	how fast does the card have to be?	20:36
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DavidePalm	anyone?	20:39
lcuk	dunno DavidePalm just get the fastest you can (class 6?)	20:40
lcuk	i have some crappy one here but barely notice speed problem in internal or mmc	20:41
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DavidePalm	ok	20:42
DavidePalm	thx	20:42
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lcuk	is it possible to make a complete clone of self?	20:44
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zenvoid	DavidePalm: the filesystem on the internal memory (jffs2) is compressed, so it may be actually faster and take less CPU to run from an external card with a uncompressed fs like ext3	20:46
zenvoid	but anyways difference is small, at least with my card	20:46
lcuk	zenvoid, o_O didnt realise. so its runtime compression when writing to ~ ?	20:47
DavidePalm	zenvoid, i see, does following that guide create an uncompressed file system automatically?	20:47
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zenvoid	lcuk: yes, jffs compression and decompression is handled transparently by the kernel	20:48
zenvoid	each time you write or read	20:48
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* lcuk didnt know		20:48
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zenvoid	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFFS2	20:49
lcuk	my linux foo is lacking :) im happier messing with pixels	20:49
zenvoid	:D	20:49
lcuk	i wonder then how much cpu that involves and what i could use it for instead	20:50
zenvoid	no idea... I always run from sd card	20:50
* Stskeeps wonders if ming387 is trying to get someone fired, heh		20:50
lcuk	all my os is in internal and the dev headers and stuff are there	20:51
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neatojones	I've been wondering the same thing. He can't seem to get the hint.	20:53
zenvoid	DavidePalm: yes, following that guide you will create an ext2 filesystem, so it will be uncompressed	20:53
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DavidePalm	kk	20:54
DavidePalm	thx	20:54
zenvoid	in fact, I think that jffs2 can't be used in the sd card	20:54
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Stskeeps	i wouldn't mind compression once in a while	20:55
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neatojones	am I right about this: Mer (so far) uses the same kernel as Maemo, so changes to the Maemo kernel affect my Mer distro too?	20:56
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Stskeeps	yes	20:57
neatojones	So high speed kernel would make Mer high speed too, right?	20:57
Stskeeps	yes	20:57
neatojones	thanks	20:57
Stskeeps	zenvoid: remember the size of the left-hand icons btw?	20:57
Stskeeps	48x48?	20:57
zenvoid	don't remember :P	20:58
qwerty12_N800	app menu is 64x64, menu you get when pressing home is 48x48 & task switcher on side is 26x26	20:59
Stskeeps	k	20:59
neatojones	Stskeeps: Things were running too well on my Mer. Figure it's time to start over and try to ruin it all over again.	20:59
Stskeeps	qwerty12_N800: as in the icons in the left bar are 26x26? :P	21:00
qwerty12_N800	yes	21:00
* lcuk curses icon sizes		21:00
Stskeeps	k	21:00
zenvoid	I remember that some icons are not square, 64x54, I think, anybody knows?	21:00
neatojones	...figure nothing will torch it quicker than unstable writing to my card.	21:00
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Stskeeps	neatojones: meh, good old fashioned FS corruption never hurt anyone	21:01
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Stskeeps	except for nuclear power plants, of cours	21:01
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neatojones	Got a friend who is an engineer for one in Arizona. Makes $500k plus.	21:01
neatojones	Says they spends millions on researching the replacement of a simple push button.	21:02
lcuk	yes	21:02
lcuk	and thank god they do	21:02
lcuk	http://www.motivatedphotos.com/?id=10455	21:02
Stskeeps	Analyzing before and after versions visible in the document demonstrates how the Association for Competitive Technology, a lobbying group partially funded by Microsoft, is trying to widen the scope of open source to include 'mixed solutions blending open and proprietary code.'" <- is Slashdot trying to imply BSD license is not open source? :P	21:02
Stskeeps	(read: i really should stop reading slashdot.)	21:03
lcuk	i can release an open source visual basic project	21:03
lcuk	that blends the two	21:03
lcuk	i dunno what license i would need cos of the underlying libs	21:04
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neatojones	lcuk: I'd say lunch gets a PL7	21:05
ShutteR77	Hello, friends! Today I want show you some my icons for Mer. Here you are - http://tinyurl.com/cy5v92 - apps icon, http://tinyurl.com/an6bxa - chat icon, http://tinyurl.com/cwe7yq - web icon. Wait for your criticism or additions.	21:05
lcuk	lol	21:05
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lcuk	ShutteR77, people commonly put the icons in context and at expected scale ;) i love having things visible from orbit on the tablet, but when the messenger head is larger than my own it scares me :P	21:06
* lcuk likes the first one though		21:06
neatojones	I like them, but I don't think the web icon is intuitive.	21:07
GeneralAntilles	http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/27/nokia-laptop-a-snapdragon-or-atom-based-netbook/ Snapdragon or Atom. I would've figured on an OMAP3640 myself.	21:07
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: i want a Z80 Nokia tablet.	21:07
lcuk	neatojones, reminds me of boobies, what else is the web for?	21:07
ShutteR77	Sorry for my mistake.	21:08
GeneralAntilles	qwerty12_N800, what's new with XChat?	21:08
neatojones	lol	21:08
lcuk	ShutteR77, not a mistake, just show em as we will see them on the tablet and people will marvel at your smooth lines :D	21:09
neatojones	I want a cortex A9 in my next tablet...	21:09
GeneralAntilles	neatojones, likely . . . in 2010 or 2011.	21:09
qwerty12_N800	GeneralAntilles: nothing much, python security fix, locales consolidated into one package & a patch where you press dpad enter in the network list to connect (and edit the network name in the edit dialog)	21:09
ShutteR77	ok	21:09
neatojones	less than a year away. ;) At the rate maemo 5 is coming (I'm joking people...)	21:10
GeneralAntilles	neatojones, early 2010 being when samples ship in volume to OEMs.	21:10
lcuk	neatojones, its not just maemo5. i still blame the whole worlds problems on the writers strike	21:10
neatojones	stupid writers...	21:11
neatojones	dang hollywood	21:11
neatojones	we need more bollywood	21:11
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neatojones	ShutteR77: Could you put a watermark in the back of the globe of continent like shapes?	21:12
neatojones	Quit destroying my dreams GeneralAntilles	21:12
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* lcuk goes to asda since no reliable human cloning tech appeared		21:13
ShutteR77	neatojones yes I can, but not now, tomorrow i will do, now i have some tasks, sorry.	21:13
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neatojones	no prob. It was just a thought. You don't ever HAVE* to do it.	21:14
neatojones	One thing is certain. The next tablet will hopefully be better put together than my new Nokia phone. I got it a month ago and I"m holding it together with electric tape.	21:16
neatojones	...wait. 2 months ago.	21:16
neatojones	it's almost March	21:16
Stskeeps	my n800 has taken endless beatings	21:16
Stskeeps	it still loves me	21:16
neatojones	My N810 is doing pretty well too. But, getting a newer device that is put together sloppily still scares me.	21:17
* qwerty12_N800 has smacked his N800 to the wall and has it smacked against a concrete floor. Still alive.		21:17
* neatojones has a dog that trips on the N810 power supply and send the device flying across the room. (You'd think he'd learn to put it in a better place).		21:18
neatojones	brb...gotta run for some documents	21:19
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AndrewFBlack	Well after last night I'm happy I didn't get ride of my windows home server I was able to fix me wiping the windows partiton on my desktop	21:29
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zchydem	QTablet running hildon apps: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XAwmW6_G0TM&feature=channel_page	21:38
RST38h	The following packages will be REMOVED:	21:39
RST38h	osso-software-version-rx44	21:39
RST38h	The following packages will be upgraded:	21:39
RST38h	libglade2-0	21:39
RST38h	Is it ok to remove osso-software-version-rx44?	21:40
qwerty12_N800	install the o-s-v unlocked version instead	21:40
qwerty12_N800	~ssu	21:40
infobot	[ssu] http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU	21:40
RST38h	?	21:41
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GeneralAntilles	apt-get install osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked	21:41
qwerty12_N800	with the unlocked version, you can install the newer version of libglade w/out removing o-s-v	21:42
hahlo	why it is locked?	21:42
RST38h	should I confirm removal of the locked version though?	21:43
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qwerty12_N800	nah, install the unlocked version first and then you can upgrade as normal	21:43
RST38h	ok	21:43
RST38h	thanks =)	21:44
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RST38h	it does not let me install the unlocked version	21:45
RST38h	osso-software-version-rx44: Conflicts: osso-software-version-variant	21:45
RST38h	osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked: Conflicts: osso-software-version-variant	21:45
qwerty12_N800	odd, osso-software-version-variant was for chinook	21:45
RST38h	hmmm	21:45
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terbo	1	21:46
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GeneralAntilles	hahlo, because Nokia only tests with a specific set of package versions.	21:48
hahlo	ah, ok	21:48
GeneralAntilles	Careless upgrades have the potential to cause instability and aren't supported.	21:48
* GeneralAntilles wonders if karma is going to be fixed in time for the election. . . .		21:49
GeneralAntilles	Also: mad props to the first person to nominate.	21:49
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pupnik	i am enjoying, in a perverse way, how few other people have picked up games porting in my absence	21:50
GeneralAntilles	Something makes me think it'll pick up for the next tablet.	21:52
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RST38h	pupnik: even fewer are porting non-game apps	21:59
* RST38h kinda got his wish of linuxdc++ port, but it is unusable =(		21:59
pupnik	dc++?	22:01
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mikkov_	qwerty12, anyway to get rid of scroll bars in zenity? http://pastebin.com/ma5cabfd	22:04
qwerty12_N800	mikkov_: you can set the size of the dialog, let me find how I did it	22:07
mikkov_	ah, --width=WIDTH --height=HEIGHT	22:08
mikkov_	and --title	22:08
RST38h	pupnik: it is a p2p app	22:08
RST38h	pupnik: used inside the community network here	22:09
pupnik	ah ty	22:09
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mikkov_	qwerty12, any way to get rid of "Cancel" button? :)	22:13
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qwerty12_N800	mikkov_: Don't think so :(, when you press it, it returns " " so when I was using it, I added an if statement that runs zenity again when pressed :/	22:15
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woglinde	alas gcc-4.4 has to come quick	22:26
woglinde	and for fremantle too	22:26
qwerty12_N800	mikkov_: I'll try and add an option to remove the button tomorrow	22:29
woglinde	ah nice its at stage 3	22:29
woglinde	I hope this means it will come in the next 2 months	22:30
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mikkov_	option to remove cancel button seems to be on todo list at http://live.gnome.org/Zenity, send patches there :)	22:32
qwerty12_N800	You'd have thought they'd have thought of this already :)	22:33
`0660	must be a trap	22:34
`0660	they try to lure new developers by omission of trivial features	22:34
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pupnik	we should petition Obama to stimulate tablet sales	22:45
pupnik	sorry, lame comment	22:45
`0660	i think we should wait for the tablet to be released first :)	22:47
Jaffa	s/tablet/something-not-a-tablet/	22:48
qwerty12_N800	a bong?	22:48
ShadowJK	woglinde, are you implying a gcc point-0 release will be usable for arm?	22:48
woglinde	ShadowJK hm I think so	22:49
woglinde	after saw the commits	22:49
woglinde	and it will help a lot in terms of atomic ops	22:49
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GeneralAntilles	Clearly it's tuna melt time.	22:50
mikkov_	qwerty12_N800, actually I found use for that Cancel button	22:56
qwerty12_N800	if `zenity whatever` = " "; then run-standalone.sh dbus-send --print-reply --type=method_call --dest=org.freedesktop.Notifications /org/freedesktop/Notifications org.freedesktop.Notifications.SystemNoteInfoprint string:'rm -rf'ing /' :)	22:58
mikkov_	hmm, I may just do that ;)	23:01
qwerty12_N800	then watch as your product gets only one star ;P	23:02
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mikkov_	cancel will refresh list of locations. User has a chance to insert memory card in the middle of install process	23:05
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mikkov_	(of course it will not be told in dialog :)	23:06
mikkov_	but if I could change the text in buttons..	23:08
qwerty12_N800	yeah... I have no idea what --cancel-label seems to do - at least "Cancel" still says "Cancel"...	23:09
mikkov_	it seems to be only for --question	23:10
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qwerty12_N800	You may be able to ask Bundyo for his gxmessage maemoized port & package for extras - that lets you set button text	23:12
qwerty12_N800	(looking @ http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18264)	23:13
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rm_you	GeneralAntilles: it's always tuna melt time :)	23:18
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RST38h	Arsonists Torch Berlin Porsches, BMWs on Economic Woe!	23:21
rm_you	that a headline?	23:22
RST38h	yea	23:22
rm_you	crazy	23:22
RST38h	Interesting method to raise demand for new cars	23:22
qwerty12_N800	meh, should have had a spot of joyridin' in 'em	23:22
cheng_99	nickserv	23:22
RST38h	qwerty: They are real revolutionaries, not selfish! =)	23:22
rm_you	which is worse, Arson or Grand Theft Auto? >_>	23:23
cheng_99	hi, does anyone know how to set configure option to use gstreamer instead of glib?	23:23
cheng_99	at sofia-sip-cli	23:23
qwerty12_N800	in gta, you can use molotovs so you get best of both worlds :)	23:23
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cheng_99	hello, anyone knows sofsip-cli?	23:25
qwerty12_N800	correct me if i'm wrong, but don't glib & gstreamer provide totally different things	23:26
GeneralAntilles	Ahaha http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=267668&postcount=415	23:27
RST38h	General: Oh YESSSS	23:28
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cheng_99	that's what i thought. but if you read the README here http://sofia-sip.org/repos/sofsip-cli/README, it can use gstreamer, but i don't know how to configure it through configure	23:31
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qwerty12_N800	./configure --help \| grep -i gstreamer?	23:32
cheng_99	one more question, it the maemo repository working alright now? i cannot use my apt-get update now	23:32
zakkm	b-man: is there any other solution to ubuntu besides your long guide?	23:33
b-man	i'm working on an installer ;)	23:33
lcuk	zakkm, you can request a cd from canonical	23:33
jeremiah_	cheng_99: There were some scratchbox.org outages earlier, but that should be up now.	23:33
lcuk	or did you mean on the desktop	23:33
zakkm	i meant ubuntu on nokia, not desktop	23:33
lcuk	tablet	23:33
zakkm	i have for desktop	23:33
lcuk	jeremiah_, im gonna tell your wife you are ignoring her and doin work stuff :P	23:34
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zakkm	that wouldnt require a long guide too.. "download ___"	23:34
Macer	yah. the little artigo is a beast	23:34
Macer	it's been doing the xp thing pretty good for what it is.. i mounted it on the back of my desk :)	23:34
zakkm	b-man: any experimental one i can try? like a pre alpha perhaps?	23:34
jeremiah_	lcuk: Heh! She is in the other room wathcing TV!	23:34
jeremiah_	:)	23:34
jeremiah_	I snuck away to talk to you lot.	23:34
lcuk	thats the open source excuse :P	23:34
b-man	zakkm: i'm still creating it :)	23:35
cheng_99	jeremiah_: but i cannot do update even now	23:35
GeneralAntilles	jeremiah_, you totally need a tablet. ;)	23:35
jeremiah_	I know!	23:35
jeremiah_	Then I can do both!	23:35
jeremiah_	Watch TV and surf!	23:35
lcuk	that way you can pretend to be watching tv	23:35
* Myrtti can donate her 770		23:35
zakkm	hate long guides from nokia ;p	23:35
cheng_99	Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/dists/diablo/sdk/Release.gpg Temporary failure resolving 'repository.maemo.org'	23:35
jeremiah_	heh	23:35
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cheng_99	i am trying to get maeo-cplusplus-env	23:36
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lcuk	Myrtti, if you get rid of your 770 you will regret it!	23:36
* b-man has been very busy lately and has only had a fuew hours out of the day to work on ubuntu :(		23:36
Macer	a 770? :)	23:36
Myrtti	lcuk: not if I give it out to a good cause :-P	23:36
Macer	i doubt that haha	23:36
lcuk	lol Myrtti like giving blood	23:36
Myrtti	Macer: it's perfectly good device!	23:36
Macer	Myrtti: never said it wasn't.. but i doubt you will regret it	23:36
lcuk	macer, from what i understand the graphics bus on the 770 is more than capable (better even than 8x0)	23:37
Myrtti	I'm probably going to keep it for running Mer on it	23:37
jeremiah_	Its amazing you guys (and gals) know all the models of Nokia products by their model numbers.	23:37
* lcuk needs to get some loving time with a 770 running chinook		23:37
Macer	but lacking in cpu/gpu/ram/features :)	23:37
Myrtti	perhaps my partner will tinker it to be a remote control for the home automation system	23:37
lcuk	jeremiah_, theres only 3, its not rocket science	23:37
jeremiah_	Oh, only three that we care about.	23:37
Macer	especially when you can get an n800 for peanuts :)	23:37
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zakkm	b-man: does your guide if i follow it and before i do ubuntu-desktop, would it have ssh installed? ( i have n800 )	23:38
lcuk	jeremiah_, unless you can divulge more :D	23:38
jeremiah_	lcuk: 1. They don't tell me anything. 2. NDA	23:38
b-man	zakkm: most likely	23:38
* Myrtti knows only about half of Nokias products by number		23:38
lcuk	770 is grandfather machine :)	23:38
jeremiah_	3. See 1.	23:38
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GeneralAntilles	lcuk, as with all maemo.org staff, they don't know anything. :P	23:39
lcuk	jeremiah_, its ok, we will wait for the next summit, get you (and the rest of the nokians) drunk and find out everything	23:39
lcuk	good point	23:39
Macer	you can ebay an n800 for like $100	23:39
qwerty12_N800	jeremiah_: you're meant to be our nokia man on the inside!	23:39
Macer	:)	23:39
* qwerty12_N800 cries		23:39
b-man	lol	23:39
Macer	wonder how much a n770 is going for	23:40
jeremiah_	lcuk: Getting me drunk will be easy - you'll still get nothing from me. :)	23:40
* lcuk waits for GeneralAntilles to fix macers typo		23:40
jeremiah_	Except that I know about . . .	23:40
jeremiah_	A nano meter thin tablet, that is made of epaper.	23:40
Macer	heh	23:40
lcuk	hopefully by then we will have new toys to keep us occupied anyway	23:40
zs	Macer: there is no n770 device ;)	23:40
b-man	lol	23:40
jeremiah_	Full qwerty keyboard in software	23:41
Macer	zs: there sure isn't :)	23:41
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, I mean, why do you think we hired them? For their quick wit and good looks? Pah! They're the only ones we could con into working for used tablet slipcases. :P	23:41
lcuk	noooooooo nano thin is bad	23:41
b-man	hehe	23:41
lcuk	it would cause horrendous papercuts	23:41
jeremiah_	Rolls up and folds into your pocket.	23:41
jeremiah_	One year battery life.	23:41
lcuk	jeremiah_, might i direct you to the book shop	23:41
jeremiah_	Wifi, 801b/g LTE, 4G, Wimax	23:41
lcuk	they have these kinds of devices	23:41
Macer	i still like my n800 tho	23:41
lcuk	only with longer battery life ;)	23:41
Macer	wish i had an n810 :)	23:41
Macer	just for the qwerty	23:41
zs	buy one ;)	23:42
lcuk	qwerty is here somewhere	23:42
oli	not really for gps? :>	23:42
jeremiah_	And will cost 14 Euros!	23:42
Macer	i have found myself using my G1 10x more than my n800	23:42
Macer	blah.. GPS is overrated	23:42
tank-man	n800 isnt a phone	23:42
oli	Macer: the android one?	23:42
lcuk	jeremiah_, which handheld devices have you got/had in the past? or have you come from all big machines	23:42
Macer	oli: yes	23:42
lcuk	tank-man, voip is enough for 99% of phone uses	23:42
jeremiah_	lcuk: Mostly bigger machines - oddly enough they were embedded too.	23:42
tank-man	but he was comparing a phone to n800	23:43
Macer	also. if wimax was actually anywhere but baltimore.. i'd get a n810 w/ wimax in a heartbeat	23:43
jeremiah_	lcuk: But I do own one small hand held thingy.	23:43
jeremiah_	It was bought for my by my wife.	23:43
Macer	damn you nextel/sprint! with your false promises	23:43
lcuk	what is it then	23:43
jeremiah_	Yes.	23:43
Macer	tank-man: i meant in terms of usability	23:43
Macer	not just for making phone calls	23:43
Macer	slap skype on an n800 and you can cal people just fine :)	23:44
Macer	i am talking about programs/features/usability etc... the qwerty goes a long way.. not to mention the stronger gpu in the G1 .. love my n800 tho.. it is a beast :)	23:44
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qwerty12_N800	arrgh! why tf did I set xchat to highlight on qwerty >.<	23:45
Macer	haha	23:45
* lcuk likes the gpu on the 810 just fine. its better than the kindle one ;)		23:45
Macer	lcuk: no 3d accel	23:46
Macer	;)	23:46
lcuk	qwerty, highlight bingo is good	23:46
lcuk	some nights it bongs all the time	23:46
lcuk	Macer, what do you need 3d for?	23:46
Macer	better looking interface?	23:46
Macer	3d snake?	23:46
lcuk	what? psdoom?	23:46
Macer	:)	23:46
lcuk	what 3d interfaces exist now	23:46
lcuk	in regular use ^	23:47
Macer	android is rendered on the G1	23:47
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, there isn't an active GPU on the N810. . . .	23:47
Macer	pull out menu and stuff is tranparent and rendered :)	23:47
lcuk	transparent doesnt need 3d though?	23:47
Macer	not to mention there are actually 3d acceled games forthe G1.. they suck.. but hey :)	23:47
Macer	lcuk: it is still rendered	23:47
lcuk	gaming is different and i agree	23:48
Macer	it is smooth	23:48
lcuk	yeah, i know all about smooth :)	23:48
Macer	:)	23:48
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lcuk	i would love to see how liqbase handled itself on a kindle	23:48
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Macer	i'm still sad over my damn shuttle	23:49
oli	lcuk: are you going to add fake-multitouch image stretching to next liqbase? :>	23:49
Macer	piece of shit.. either i'll try to RMA it back to newegg or just get a new one for $90 from somewhere	23:49
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lcuk	mmmnm, there might be native multitouch events which might be possible to ummm maybe somehow be creatively ummm abused in some manner but thats all tbc	23:50
Macer	wow java is a whore	23:51
lcuk	but i hadnt thought about it too much recently, ive had other things to sort out	23:51
lcuk	lol	23:51
Macer	sucking up everything around it and spitting it out with herpes	23:52
lcuk	ahhh then java isnt a whore, either that or you aren't paying it enough	23:52
Macer	i guess my 1GHz C7 isn't paying enough	23:53
Macer	:)	23:53
lcuk	heh	23:53
zakkm	wow nice :)	23:53
zakkm	laptop?	23:53
Macer	but it is nice that i have a computer half the size of an internal optical drive mounted on the back of my desk	23:53
Macer	zakkm: artigo	23:54
lcuk	sitting at my desk feels wrong, its got no tablet on it	23:54
Macer	via pico-itx based system	23:54
zakkm	yeah i google'd :)	23:54
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Macer	it's pretty strong for what it is	23:54
lcuk	macer!! in times gone by i had a whole computer in a unit smaller than the keyboard im on now	23:54
zakkm	internet is going slow, trying to debootstrap ubuntu for nokia	23:54
zakkm	i want to try out the e17 :)	23:54
* b-man updates tablet-wireless and tablet-network-setup in ubuntu repo		23:54
lcuk	and i have a handheld one with a screen as well	23:54
Macer	lcuk: that would be the artigo :) haha	23:54
lcuk	zx spectrum actually :P	23:54
b-man	*ubuntu-n8x0	23:55
zakkm	ya ya sounds fun	23:55
zakkm	i like trying out stuff, and i love mac so im not switching desktop ;p	23:55
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Macer	macs are OK .. i never bought into them .. i was able to get a mb for $500 off of someone getting rid of it	23:56
Macer	one of the smaller black ones	23:56
zakkm	omgg	23:56
tank-man	negative iphone story on slashdot.org with over 600 replys :)	23:56
zakkm	id buy that off you	23:56
Macer	i mean.. it's OK.. i don't see what the big deal is :)	23:56
zakkm	Macer: i use mac x86..	23:56
Macer	zakkm: i use it	23:56
Macer	oh	23:56
zakkm	i got it planned though, so full support and such	23:56
Macer	hackintosh?	23:56
Macer	heh	23:56
zakkm	real mac disc	23:56
zakkm	got a perfectly supported motherboard and all, i love mac :)	23:56
Macer	what do they do that makes it different?	23:57
zakkm	got a 22" WS monitor the other day	23:57
Macer	i mean is there just some sort of thing they put on it ?	23:57
zakkm	mac itself or hackintosh?	23:57
zs	Macer: an apple ;)	23:57
zakkm	hackintosh just uses a fake bootloader.	23:57
zakkm	to let it boot	23:57
zakkm	then theres people that make drivers for stuff apple wouldnt put in the OS	23:58
Macer	it's just a mach kernel isn't it?	23:58
zakkm	yeah	23:58
zakkm	or alternative.	23:58
Macer	:)	23:58
zakkm	i use an alternative, but mach works fine	23:58
Macer	mach kernels aren't gpl ?	23:58
zakkm	yes they are	23:59
zakkm	well heh	23:59
Macer	does apple release the source?	23:59
zakkm	its illegal anyways, hackintosh	23:59
Macer	:)	23:59
jeremiah_	Yes, you can get Darwin for free	23:59
jeremiah_	The parts on top of it are proprietary	23:59
jeremiah_	Like Aqua	23:59
qwerty12_N800	Macer: kernel source is released as part of darwin afaik	23:59

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