IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2009-02-27

* neatojones continues to sit on enlightenment channel waiting for answers00:01
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neatojonessomehow, despite the amazing realism of the leaked image I posted no one seems to believe it.  I'm shocked00:30
pupnikwhich neatojones00:31
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pupniknm found it00:32
StsN800ssvb, scanning occasionally returns invalid argument00:36
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cellofellowI don't have a Nokia tablet but have been looking at them, and was wondering how the Skype functionality works.00:37
lcukskype works, but video doesnt00:38
lcukgtalk with video calling does work nicely however00:39
lcuk(at least i think its gtalk00:39
cellofellowok, but how is skype used? just use the builtin speakers and mic? can it act like phone when using these various voip apps (hold it to the ear) or maybe use a bluetooth earpiece?00:39
cellofellow(honestly not too interested in video chat)00:40
lcuki dont use a bt earpiece, but i know the supplied headphones have a mic and stuff on em00:40
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GeneralAntillesSpeakerphone, 3.5mm or Bluetooth.00:41
cellofellowthe 3.5mm jack is a 3-channel connection in this case?00:41
lcukputting the device directly to your head isnt practical really, the speakers are geared as speakers and not phonesq00:41
cellofellowgot it00:41
lcukevening GeneralAntilles00:42
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cellofellowcould it work with a usb headset?00:43
GeneralAntillesIf you can get drivers.00:44
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cellofellowIt just uses the shipped usb audio alsa drivers.00:45
cellofellowshipped, stock, standard, whatever.00:46
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* lcuk craves bacon01:10
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pupnikpress button01:13
* lcuk nervously presses button01:14
jaemgood morning01:15
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lcukgood morning jaem, do you have bacon?01:15
woglindewahaha I just see the video about vmware on the n80001:15
jaemlcuk: sadly no01:15
woglindewtf they did at vmware01:15
lcukyes woglinde looks impressive01:16
woglindedid they port a l4 kernel?01:16
lcukthe scaled displays were a nice touch (like my scaled things)01:16
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lcuki dunno how they did it, but they managed to trick lower level graphics to render at scale01:17
jaemis anyone here familiar with b-man's Ubuntu install?  I'm getting the "incompatible bootmenu" error, and I couldn't find a solution to that.  I presume i just did something stupid01:17
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woglindeI am off again01:17
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woglindegood nite01:17
lcukhi n bye woglinde01:17
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* GeneralAntilles wonders at there not having been a single nomination.01:18
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rdesfodoes any one know how to get ubuntu on n80001:50
jaemthere's a forum thread, but I'm having issues with bootmenu01:51
jaemother than that, it appears to work01:51
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rdesfoawesome thanks01:54
rdesfohas any one thought about packaging this and placing it in lauchpad?01:55
rdesfothat would be great then all it would take is adding a couple of line to sources.list and accouple of command lines01:56
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jaemrdesfo: it's a completely different distro than Maemo01:57
jaemso that wouldn't really work01:57
jaemb-man is working on an installer, though01:57
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Andrewfblackanyone installed Nitdroid using script on itt and can't get it to go past Nitdroaid boot screen02:02
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pupnikARM and microcontroller based homemade helicopters, with gps tracking google earth, gyrscopes etc .. fun
AndrewfblackI think I wiped my windows partiton when I was doing the install for Nitdroid02:06
fireunahh, evolution (;02:07
AndrewfblackI can't beleave that02:07
fireunsurvival of the fitest02:07
fireunall linux, all the time!02:07
fireunit was a subconcious act02:08
Andrewfblackyeah but my school work was on that partition02:08
fireundeep down, you know it was for the best02:08
jaemthe school work had been tainted. It had to die02:08
jaembut still, that's too bad :(02:08
fireunoh, well... my condolences02:08
Andrewfblacknow here is the qestion do I reinstall windows or move on and try to live with just the linux02:09
fireunI find wine works for all the little things I needed windows for02:09
fireunbut your milage may vary02:09
jaemmove on02:09
AndrewfblackWell there aer some games I  don't think I would be able to play02:09
jaemor virtualize windows, if your computer can handle it02:09
jaemhmm... I don't game, but I haven't found anything else I needed Windows for in the last few years02:10
infobotjaem meant: hmm... I don't game, but I haven't found anything else I needed Windows for in the last two years02:10
fireungames maybe you should have stopped play? school work is more important02:10
fireunI suddenly realize I havent played a game for months02:10
Andrewfblackok found my school work it was back uped to my server02:11
fireungood job!02:11
jaemwas it a *Linux* server?02:11
Andrewfblackjaem you don't want to know : )02:11
jaemotherwise you'll need to print out the homework and burn it02:11
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jaempurge the windows taint from it02:11
fireunjaem: what if the fonts were windows fonts?02:12
Andrewfblackfind me something as good and easy as windows home server and I would02:12
jaemokay, I'm just kidding02:12
fireunor are you?02:12
jaemfireun: then you'd need to go find the guys who wrote the fonts, and burn them02:12
jaemgood old fashioned proprietary software witch hunt!02:12
Andrewfblackguess I know why tablet isn't booting Nitdroid I must have flashed it to my windows partiton on desktop lol02:12
fireunI spoke with someone the other week who was going to *buy* fonts! thats crazy.02:12
jaemit is02:12
fireunwho *buys* fonts?02:13
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fireunthats like saying you bougth some words the other day02:13
GeneralAntillesfireun, professionals who use them.02:13
jaemmy uni spent an obscene amount of money on a new logo, which not only could have been designed by an 8-year old, but also used a really expensive font02:13
GeneralAntillesAlternatively you could ask: "Who *buys* art?"02:13
jaemthat's a fair point - typography isn't as simple as some might think - you might say it /is/ art02:14
fireunfonts = art = questionable02:14
jaemquestionability is not art02:14
jaem(fonts == art) == questionable?02:14
jaemand the answer would be true?02:14
fireun== maybe02:15
fireunwhich is a derivitive of 'sometimes'02:15
fireunbut NOT equivelant!02:15
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jaemwhat about wingdings?02:15
jaemart, or not?02:15
fireunuseful, or not?02:16
jaemnot terribly02:16
fireunI havnt used a wingding in almost a decade02:17
jaemI don't think I ever have02:17
fireunmaybe that little (c) thing, but I prefer (cc) anyways02:17
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jaemalthough I remember back in elementary school, they banned "jokerman", because everyone thought it was cool to use on assignments02:17
jaemfireun: I'm with you there02:17
fireunand using the wingding for it is not necessary, you can just type (c) (cc) and the idea comes across02:17
jaemapparently there are some countries where (c) is not acceptable02:18
jaemor so I've heard02:18
fireunI've heard people suggesting to other students that they should use currier new, because at 12pt, it fills the page with fewer words! silliness.02:18
fireunhow about 'copyright 1969'02:19
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fireunor do they only allow 'copyleft 1969'02:19
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* GeneralAntilles yanked the power cable on his router while vacuuming. . . .02:24
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GeneralAntillesmikkov_, I have a feeling darethehair is going to bring down Extras within the next 72 hours.02:24
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fireunsometimes, I wonder what language you guys are using...02:27
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Andrewfblackstill can't get Nitdroid to boot on my tablet02:29
Andrewfblackeven after I wiped my windows partiton lol02:30
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Andrewfblackcan't beleave my day I wiped my windows partition and my tablet at smae time02:42
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jaemI propose that we organize a channel-wide HDD wiping to show our support and sympathy02:51
lcukyou first02:53
jaemI was going to suggest having everyone type in their root passwords, and then we could do it as a community :P02:54
jaemwe could do it as a fundraiser... kind of like shaving your heads for cancer02:54
jaem..grr... apt-get in the Ubuntu chroot keeps hanging02:55
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fireunI may not have wiped my hd today, but I shouldnt have eaten that salmon jombalya03:03
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earksiinnihi everyone03:57
earksiinnidoes anyone have experience with creating bootable images for the it's?03:58
earksiinnii'm interested in creating a highly specialized mini-distro for the 77003:58
earksiinniright now i just want to make a bootable initramfs/initrd image that i can upload to the device with the tool03:59
earksiinniif i need to RTFM i'd be more than happy to read the manual, but i don't know where that is :-)03:59
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GeneralAntillesearksiinni, it's the quite time. You'll probably want to talk to Stskeeps or johnx but I don't believe they're here at the moment.04:02
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earksiinniGeneralAntilles, thanks again lol :-P04:02
MercuryDoes anyone remember what the warrenty period is on the n810?  I'm getting the feeling that I may need to use mine.04:03
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GeneralAntillesMercury, 1 year for the US, should be 3 for EU04:23
GeneralAntillesdunno about other places.04:23
MercuryAlright, in the US, and it's been less then a year.04:24
MercuryDamn, I really don't want to be without it for a couple of weeks either.04:24
GeneralAntillesWhat's the problem?04:24
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MercuryWhen I plug it into the computer via the micro USB cable, about 50% of the time I get lots and lots of block errors on the computer side (Linux) as it tries to read the partition tables, and the unit's UI locks.  I can (sometimes) still ssh into the unit, at which point I see block errors being reported on the internal memory device,04:26
MercuryI've tried reflashing with the current Maemo build, which did not fix it.  If there's a handy tool for doing a full erase of the flash and then a reformat that would probably be next.04:27
GeneralAntillesBy "internal memory device" do you mean the 256MB of NAND or the 2GB eMMC?04:27
GeneralAntillesBecause the 2GB eMMC shipped with an oversized partition table for a while.04:28
GeneralAntillesSo repartitioning might help04:28
MercuryThe 2GB eMMC.04:28
GeneralAntillesThe flasher doesn't touch the cards.04:28
GeneralAntillesOnly the 256MB of NAND.04:28
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MercuryThis is a new issue though, I've had the unit for over 6 months.  But I'll definitely give repartitioning and formatting a try.04:28
GeneralAntillesWell, it doesn't crop up instantly.04:29
GeneralAntillesIt'll become an issue whenever the out-of-range area of the partition table is used.04:29
MercuryHrrm, not sure why it wouldn't be 100% if it's being caused by simply writing past the end, but I'll still give it a shot.04:29
GeneralAntillesWhich can be 5 minutes after you start loading data or 6 months.04:29
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GeneralAntillesAlternatively the eMMC could just be shot.04:30
GeneralAntillesThat's been know to happen once or twice, too.04:30
MercuryAnd if that's the case, it's a return for repair issue.  Joy.04:30
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MercuryWell, let's hope that repartitioning helps.04:31
MercuryAny known issues with doing that from a PC with it attached as a mass storage device?04:31
GeneralAntillesShouldn't be.04:31
GeneralAntillesIf it doesn't work, there's always SSH.04:31
neato_jonesStskeeps: I'm actually talking to the guy who makes enlightenment.  Hopefully we can get the enlightenment keyboard working04:32
MercuryGeneralAntilles: Thank you. :)04:32
GeneralAntillesMercury, fixed?04:33
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MercuryGeneralAntilles: Still copying ~1G of stuff off the eMMC. :)04:34
GeneralAntillesThe USB interface is SLOOW04:34
MercuryGiven that I mostly use it for ebooks. :)04:36
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MercuryI sure hope this works, I don't really want to go batshit insane due to lack of something to read with. :)04:40
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MidoI need a little help, a small amount of handholding if you will04:42
MidoI managed to set up Xephyr to forward X information to cygwin X on my xp machine, and I can start the emulator04:43
Midobut what im having a hard time with is understanding what things go where when it comes to the emulator's environment04:43
MidoI'm a bit confused at which manuals to read, since I go through them and end up feeling like they still skipped over some very fundamental things04:43
Midowhich I simply am not used to04:44
Midobasically I'm asking how to put a compiled helloworld into a folder or file that the emulator will see and allow me to run04:44
tank-manmido, have you read this?
Midooh my :o04:47
Midotank-man, lemme go through it and see if I still need help after that; thanks a lot04:47
tank-mangood luck04:48
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MidoI really appreciate it :)04:54
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Midofirst problem while following the tutorial05:03
Midogot pretty far with nothing wrong05:03
Midobut when we start using the pkg-config utility..05:03
MidoI get that05:04
Midowhich is not what the tutorial says I should get05:04
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MidoI should note that all the version checks the tutorial has me do; line up perfectly05:08
tank-manyea second line says you are missing the program "pkg-config" from you path05:08
Midoill.. resolve that I guess :)05:09
tank-manoh maybe cause you should use `pkg-config, not 'pkg-config05:10
neato_joneswhat is the framerate of hildon?05:11
neato_jones..and is the N8x0 96 dpi05:11
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GeneralAntillesneato_jones, the LCD is 225dpi05:16
GeneralAntillesx is 96, though, I think.05:16
GeneralAntillesThey just pumped up the font size.05:16
GeneralAntillesx updates are manual05:17
GeneralAntillesSo there isn't really a "framerate"05:17
neato_jonesanyone use Mer.  how can you set up the usb ssh?05:21
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ezadkiel_mBcan anyone explain to me my scratchbox is giving me mmap: Permission denied when I am running as fakeroot?05:36
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tonyyarussoWhat can I use to sync information from the GPE PIM tools to Evolution on my desktop?05:39
Midotank-man, I installed the pkg-config from apt-get install, then tried what you said with ` instead of ' and I got
Midoseg faults05:45
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b-manI'm now chatting from booted ubuntu from my tablet! :D06:05
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neato_jonesme too06:06
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neato_jonestalking to raster with the e17 people06:06
neato_jonestrying to figure out the keyboard issues06:07
neato_joneshe installed Mer, is building E17 now06:07
MidoI'm getting segfaults when I try to compile with gtk06:08
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* b-man_ubuntu tests out firefox06:08
neato_jonescompile which with gtk?06:08
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neato_jonesMido: why are you compiling libgtk2.0?06:15
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Midoneato_jones, following this06:17
MidoI need to go afk for a bit06:17
Midoill read anything you suggest06:17
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Midogod dammit xD06:40
Midothe net split erased what anyone might have said06:40
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dougttimelE61i: ping?06:44
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sistoanyone using gnumeric?07:38
sistoi can't find a way to switch to another sheet07:38
sistoany hints?07:38
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sansI am checking if Aptana toolkit cud be used for making applications for maemo .can anybody suggest something07:41
sistodo you know how to switch between sheets in gnumeric for maemo?07:41
sistosans: sorry no clue about that07:42
sanssisto:no idea about switching in gnumeric:(07:43
sansStskeeps: hi07:44
sansStskeeps:any way to make applications on Aptana and put it on maemo?07:45
sanstimelE61i:any way to make applications on Aptana and put it on maemo?07:45
tank-mannot going to ask me? :)07:46
GeneralAntillessans, firing random questions at random people isn't usually a good way to get an answer. :)07:46
GeneralAntillesIf there's somebody in the room who can answer, they will.07:47
sansk will keep in mind?07:48
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earksiinnihi all09:40
earksiinnii'm trying to mount the rootfs image according to
earksiinnibut i keep getting jffs2: Too few erase blocks (0) in dmesg09:40
earksiinniany ideas?09:41
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qwerty12He's probably doing it wrong, it correctly lists 256 as the erase block size (and I've followed those instructions and made new images a few times with those instructions)09:46
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Stskeeps'lo else5810:17
Stskeepsearksiinni,b ut he let :P10:17
* Stskeeps ponders how that message was full of fail.10:17
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JaffaMorning, all10:26
Stskeepsmorning Jaffa10:26
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Stskeepsqwerty12: did powerlaunch have a charging screen?10:31
qwerty12Aye, unanimated though10:31
Stskeepssure? thought it was in the code to animate10:32
qwerty12It's been a long while since I've used it. It did have a problem though. It was either the animation thing or the writing and icon being way too small (which I know did happen for a fact) or both.10:33
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inzDoes powerlaunch have alarm dialog?10:41
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qwerty12alarms were broken last time I tried it but I may be imagining the author saying he fixed the alarms in a later version. lemme check.10:42
Stskeepsuncertain, but it is probably programmable :P10:42
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qwerty12"Alarms should be working in powerlaunch 0.9 and it's now installable from the maemo extras-devel repository"10:42
inzwith localisation?10:42
qwerty12iirc, it only speaks english10:43
qwerty12But it's all handled by conf files anyway (including text strings)10:44
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Stskeepspowerlaunch is basically a programming language :P10:48
inzGeneric problem solver10:48
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qwerty12It also has the tendency to create problems for users :P10:48
Stskeepsyeah :P10:49
inzWonder if system UI is still used in harmattan...10:49
inzErm, meant fremantle10:49
inzHmm, at least there's no osso-systemui-dbus-dev package in fremantle repos10:51
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RST38hmoo all11:05
RST38hA curious thing happened yesterday11:06
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RST38hqwerty: Seen that post about Tracker on Maemo Planet?11:06
qwerty12Seen it but I haven't read it yet11:06
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RST38hqwerty: Anyway, I left a comment to it yesterday, about how running tracker in background will affect cpu performance and battery consumption11:13
RST38hqwerty: Today, my comment has been quietly deleted.11:13
qwerty12It's been deleted?11:13
RST38hFunny, isn't it? :)11:13
qwerty12Indeed :)11:14
* RST38h strokes his crystal balls11:14
GeneralAntillesYou sure it's not just in a moderation queue?11:14
RST38hNo, it has been there yesterday11:14
GeneralAntillesAnyway, it could hardly be worse than metalayer11:14
RST38hAnd it wasn't a flame too, just a very neutral question11:15
RST38hGeneral: Judging from how Tracker behaves on desktop Ubuntu, it will11:15
RST38hGeneral: very aggressive program, created 200MB of metadata in my ~ before I disabled it11:16
* GeneralAntilles shrugs.11:16
GeneralAntillesNokia's not stupid.11:16
RST38hNokia is a company, it can't be "stupid"11:17
GeneralAntillesMaemo SW, then.11:17
GeneralAntillesWhatever term you want to use.11:17
RST38hUnfortunately, architectural decisions like that are made by live humans and some of them may be...mmm...unrealistic11:17
GeneralAntillesThey've already shipped something similar for 3 years.11:18
GeneralAntillesIt hasn't managed to kill the platform.11:18
AStormcompanies can be stupid11:19
RST38hGeneral: It is not going to kill the platform of course11:20
RST38hGeneral: Will just piss the users.11:20
RST38h(see the previous metalayer fiasco)11:20
Jaffajeremiah_: oh dear, you spelt Fremantle incorrectly; one of GeneralAntilles' bug bears ;-)11:20
AStormbut we can fork11:21
* RST38h would prefer to have a decent working base product11:21
GeneralAntillesJaffa, I'm building a capital M launcher as we speak. ;)11:21
AStormunlike other poor sods11:21
RST38h"We can fork" is really not an answer :(11:21
StskeepsRST38h: Tracker is -very- modified on Maemo11:21
Stskeeps(and tracker on maemo is the new desktop version)11:21
AStormbut is still slow11:21
RST38hSts: Have you tried running whatever they released on Mer btw?11:21
StskeepsRST38h: no, not yet11:21
Stskeepsbut it is very modified and architecturally, it looks saner11:22
GeneralAntillesRST38h, supposedly the beta releases will be available for Diablo, so you can test to your heart's content.11:22
Stskeepsand if you can regulate when it scans..11:22
RST38hSts: Given how touchy its developers are about performance, it is well worth checking11:22
AStormbtw, why do we even need such thing11:22
StskeepsAStorm: media players. \o/11:22
AStormbut why track in bg11:22
RST38hAStorm: some people love this11:22
AStormwhy not load on demand11:22
JaffaAStorm: because things like Canola and MediaBox take 60 seconds to start with a small media library?11:22
StskeepsRST38h: you can probably get a good searcher if you utilize directory events11:23
RST38hAStorm:not myself, but some others11:23
AStormor preload before demand11:23
RST38hJaffa: Do not enable index-on-startup11:23
JaffaStskeeps: wasn't tracker - in some mode - supposed to use inotify?11:23
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JaffaRST38h: and then you have to update manually as an explicit step, which isn't very friendly either.11:23
RST38hJaffa: No problem to me personally11:23
AStormJaffa, friendlier than grabbing battery11:23
RST38hJaffa: I change content rarely, in big chunks11:24
JaffaIn theory, having a central repository of all media on the device isn't a bad idea. It's just implementation which matters.11:24
AStormalthough inotify-based updater should be cheap11:24
GeneralAntillesRST38h, then your use-case is clearly covered.11:24
GeneralAntillesMost people dislike having to screw around with that shit.11:24
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AStormJaffa, yes11:24
RST38hGeneral: yea, I understand11:24
RST38hGeneral: Not sure about "most", but many do11:24
AStormthe trick is removing old entries11:24
AStormnso as to make the database small11:25
AStormand handling removable devices11:25
RST38hJaffa: the actual thing that matters is how aggresively you index11:25
RST38hJaffa: my feeling is that there is no "right" setting for this, so I just default to "index when I ask you"11:26
AStorminotify-based indexing can be aggressive and unobtrusive11:26
JaffaRST38h: See, you're assuming an implementation detail (which both metalayer and tracker used) of constantly scanning the filesystem for changes, when Linux provides event-based notifications for that.11:26
AStormit will index after write11:26
AStormJaffa, fix then.11:27
AStormit's a grave bug not to use this11:27
JaffaI suspect that tracker, certainly, falls back to inotify - but it needs to scan to find the starting position.11:27
AStormwhat starting position?11:27
StskeepsJaffa: yeah, probably11:27
JaffaLess of an issue on a fresh-out-of-the-box mobile device11:27
RST38hJaffa: yea, but using inotify, as I understand, will shift delay from overal operation to file system accesses11:27
AStormyou mean like mp3 delay?11:27
JaffaAStorm: RST38h is basing his comments on trying tracker on his desktop. It'll already have had a whole shit of stuff on his box which inotify wouldn't tell him about.11:28
AStormRST38h, indeed, but you have the file in cache already11:28
AStormJaffa, have one time manual scan11:28
RST38hJaffa: as I said, my question about cpu/power consumption of the "new" tracker has been promptly deleted11:28
RST38hAStorm: ah, that's a bit better11:29
JaffaRST38h: indeed, worrying.11:29
* GeneralAntilles wouldn't assume malice so quickly.11:29
JaffaAStorm: Now you're picking over the UI of a product I've not used, not involved in or whatever. Personally, I can see why doing the initial scan on install or first-startup is a better use-case in a lot of cases than doing it manually. But the ideal would be a "Welcome to Tracker. Your filesystem is x% full and should be indexed as soon as possible to provide most effective use. [Scan now] [Remind later] [Will start manually later]"11:30
JaffaBut this is an irrelevant UI in a system component on a mobile device, so not pertinent to #maemo11:30
AStormI mean adding a directory should force an immediate scan... or maybe delayed one11:31
RST38hit is really a personal preference11:31
AStormui issue indeed11:31
StskeepsRST38h: i'm happy as long as i can ask tracker not to run11:31
RST38hand we are not even talking about how you index but WHEN11:31
AStormstill, inotify has to be used.11:31
Stskeepswhereas metalayer-crawler was a bit of a hack to remove11:31
RST38hSts: same here11:31
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RST38hSts: My guess is we are not gonna get this option, but I am always a pessimist11:32
AStormfortunately, we can fix this11:32
StskeepsRST38h: yeah, but as AStorm says, we have the freedom to whack tracker to death :P11:33
* Stskeeps still is laughing on the inside on the paid apps not working on adp1. :P11:33
AStormhave a control panel applet, for example11:33
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Stskeepsinz: thumbs up :) it's the most common complaint amongst users :P11:34
AStorminz, :D11:34
* Stskeeps wonders if alpha drop happens today11:35
AStormehh, why can't we just have blessed *working* sbox2?11:36
AStorminstead of crazy hacks like this one11:36
qwerty12sbox2 goes out of its way to be anal retentive11:36
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Stskeepseh, when was last drop?11:36
AStormthen why nit have sbox1 fixed to work with vdso11:37
AStormI suspect some major stupidity going down there if it needs that disabled11:37
RST38hSts: I wonder what the next android-related snafu is going to be11:38
StskeepsRST38h: ADP1 phones requiring "activation key"11:38
RST38hSts: 'cause Android just continues to deliver lulz =)11:38
AStormwoohoo, walled garden11:38
Proteousduh, you don't want people stealing your tomatoes11:39
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Proteousmy garden has fuxing razor wire11:39
* RST38h suggests inz to switch to a geniune Intel desktop11:39
Proteousintel makes CPUs not desktops11:40
RST38hProteous: Do your tomatoes have teeth too? =)11:40
Proteousmy desktop is formica11:40
AStormCentrino platform11:40
RST38hProteous: Actually, Intel makes the whole platform11:40
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AStormintel doesn't make peripherials though11:40
RST38hAStorm: makes flash memory11:41
AStormbut not pendrives11:41
AStormso still not peripherials :P11:41
AStorm(or cards)11:41
Corsacthere make the ADD card11:41
Corsacand they make motherboards11:41
Corsacwhich is kind-of a card :)11:42
AStormnope and nope11:42
AStormperipherial is stuff you put outside the box11:42
AStormthe logo is "intel inside" for a reason11:42
Corsacintel ahead11:42
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RST38hAStorm: Don't pay too much attention to whatever marketing department produces11:43
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RST38hAh, my tracker question is back =)11:43
RST38hMust have been a glitch of some kind. No answer though.11:44
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: ways around 3rd party apps so far: Skype (they point to .install file on their homepage, so can we.), Gizmo points to armel deb.11:44
GeneralAntillesWhy are unbundled 3rd-party applications an issue?11:45
AStormbtw, do we have Skype 2 for armel already?11:45
Stskeepswell, i'm saying it's possible for users to grab :)11:45
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, duh. :P11:45
Stskeepswithout having to resort to upgrade repositories :P11:46
* RST38h salivates over
AStorm12" is too large11:47
GeneralAntillesTablet or bust11:47
RST38hAStorm: I use R100 as a desktop replacement11:47
AStormuh, my desktop replacement is 17"11:48
RST38hi.e. 12" is a bit too small for me :) But will do, given the weight and size11:48
AStormand just 133 PPI11:48
AStormI'd love a larger resolution screen11:48
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RST38hyou have got the tablet =)11:49
* GeneralAntilles uses a desktop as his desktop replacement and a tablet as his laptop replacement.11:49
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* Stskeeps ponders idly when there will be response on the 3rd party hw interfacing11:51
Stskeepsthen again i'm probably just impatient :P11:52
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* GeneralAntilles can only imagine Nokia Legal's priority list.11:53
GeneralAntilles1. Keep Microsoft from suing.11:53
GeneralAntilles2. Avoid submarine patents.11:53
timelessthat's about right11:53
GeneralAntilles3. Deal with whack-job Linux farkheads.11:53
timelesswe talked about 1 yesterday before dinner11:53
Stskeepsah, my 3. was dealing with RMS by feeling him children11:54
Stskeepstimeless: yeah, some of those patents are -nasty-11:54
timelessthey were early and smart11:54
Stskeeps(looking at tomtom case)11:54
timelesssadly, they really constrain what can be done11:55
Stskeepstimeless: i do wonder how many patents nokia has that android and such probably infringes though :P11:55
timeless"i don't want to know"11:55
timelessfinding out can be very bad for people who work in certain areas11:55
GeneralAntillesIt's interesting that no lightweight free alternative to FAT has come forward.11:55
RST38hSts: He is probably a vegetarian, judging from how wacky he is overally11:55
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: it's no use if cameras don't use them, so11:56
timelesswouldn't something which tries to emulate fat still hit fat patents?11:56
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, I think at least having something embedded vendors could consider would be a start.11:57
RST38hGeneral: FAT isn't there because it is technically superior, it is there because everybody uses it11:57
GeneralAntillestimeless, hehe, I was just considering a translation layer that shows an EXT*/UBIFS volume as FAT to a PC connected via USB.11:57
timelessit's also simple and easy to implement11:57
RST38hSo, any alternative will end up like Ogg Vorbis11:57
GeneralAntillesRST38h, I wouldn't be surprised about it not being picked up, just about there being no options available.12:00
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RST38hGeneral: lemme google ;)12:07
GeneralAntillesYeah, good point.12:08
* GeneralAntilles is hardly familiar with all free filesystems.12:08
GeneralAntillesThough I'd assume if there were something I'd've heard about it.12:08
RST38hThe explanation is somewhat unexpected too12:08
RST38h"These removable flash memory devices use the FAT file system to allow universal compatibility with computers, cameras, PDAs and other portable devices with memory card slots or ports."12:09
AStormcompatibility, yup12:09
RST38hIn other words, "FAT" you see is not necessarily what is used by the drive12:09
RST38hIt is just a simulation layer to make Windows read it12:09
AStormit usually is.12:09
RST38hFlash file systems:
AStormnowadays they use that funky MS camera protocol12:10
RST38hAStorm: They still fall back to umass12:10
AStormah, you mean USB devices12:10
AStormthose do simulate FAT12:10
RST38hSD cards as well12:11
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Stskeeps'lo zenvoid12:12
GeneralAntillesI don't really care about what's going on at a lower-level here, though, just avoiding having to use FAT without having a compatibility impact.12:12
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RST38hUnless you would like it to simulate NTFS of course :)12:13
AStormnah, ntfs can't be read by most mobile devices12:14
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zenvoidStskeeps: hello. I have a question for you ;-)12:14
Stskeepszenvoid: shoot :)12:14
zenvoidStskeeps: I can't find the SBOX_COMPILER_ARGS variable, where is it?12:14
GeneralAntillesRST38h, in our case, why not?12:15
GeneralAntillesFormat the built-in card as EXT3, then show a FAT device to things connected via USB.12:15
Stskeepszenvoid: export SBOX_EXTRA_COMPILER_ARGS="-Wno-poison-system-directories -march=armv5te"12:15
Stskeepsbefore running scratchbox12:15
* GeneralAntilles wonders why a lot of the itT ads are no longer being blocked.12:17
Stskeepst.m.o will be ad-free?12:17
zenvoidStskeeps: heh, thanks12:17
* Stskeeps is seriously wondering what causes this bloody wifi problem 12:18
Stskeeps(on n8x0)12:18
zenvoidNow I undestand why "grep -r SBOX_COMPILER_ARGS" in sbox sources doesn't returned anything :D12:19
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Stskeepsstill in dependancy hell? :)12:20
zenvoidthis time I was just trying several things :)12:21
zenvoidwondering if "-march=armv6j -mtune=arm1136jf-s -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp" would make any speed difference in the n8x012:22
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Stskeepswe need some investigations into HWCAP at least12:23
Stskeepssuihkulokki was looking at them i think12:23
zenvoidthat also would be interesting to know12:24
* GeneralAntilles bangs head against the wall @ "freemantle".12:25
Stskeepszenvoid: i have a xomap building for mer btw if you want to experiment with it. It seems to have spooky interaction with HIM (works not in fields but it works in osso-xterm..)12:26
GeneralAntillesThey all must be doing it intentionally.12:27
GeneralAntillesPeople can't really be this thick.12:27
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: mental slip just like "the the"?12:27
Stskeepsyou should do a "I'm GeneralAntilles and i pronounce Fremantle as Fr3mantel" wav12:28
Stskeepsor something12:28
qwerty12Stskeeps, you should have called Mer freemantle :P12:28
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, it's all too consistent to be a slip up.12:28
GeneralAntillesfreemantle for maemo12:28
aquatixGeneralAntilles: i think they pronounce it freemantle in their head12:28
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GeneralAntillesfreemantle for Maemo.org12:28
aquatixi know i do it like that12:28
Stskeepsmaemo5. :P12:28
aquatixso Fremantle soon becomes Freemantle by accident12:29
RST38hGeneral: Just leave it be, at least they do not write it as "free mantle"12:29
Jaffaaquatix: that's how "fremantle" *is* pronounced (AIUI)12:29
aquatixJaffa: yeah12:29
* RST38h still mourns for the Elephanta. That would be one hell of a release name.12:29
aquatixso it's just some freudian thing then, i guess12:29
aquatixRST38h: :)12:30
StskeepsMantle (mollusc), an organ used by mollusks to secrete their shells12:30
* Stskeeps ponders.12:30
zenvoidStskeeps: sure, it is xomap in the repo?12:31
Stskeepsxserver-xomap but i'm unsure where it is, hm12:32
RST38hSts: Fmermantle as a MeR release!12:34
roopeAt least all Finns pronounce it with only one "e".12:34
* RST38h has no idea how Finns pronounce "e" thouggh =)12:34
StskeepsRST38h: my pet peeve is people calling Mer MeR (i don't blame them though. Original name was M-R)12:35
GAN800Maemo Emergency Reconsideration12:36
* GAN800 is going to blow up his tablet the next time MicroB tops itself.12:36
qwerty12That wont take long to happen then12:37
GAN800timeless, this attention whoring behavior can't be healthy. :(12:37
timelessyeah well... um12:37
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timelesshow about i get lunch ? :P)12:38
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jeremiah_hello good maemoians :)12:46
qwerty12morning :)12:47
jeremiah_Do any of you hotshot development people use lintian when you create packages for maemo?12:48
jeremiah_(lintian is the debian policy checker for those who don't know.)12:49
RST38hNo, packaging is too much hassle as it is12:49
jeremiah_RST38h: Yeah - fair point.12:49
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jeremiah_RST38h: What are the pain points? What sucks about packagingg?12:50
jeremiah_How can we fix it.12:50
RST38hjeremiah: many disconnected config files to make changes to12:50
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RST38hmakefile, control, changes, etc.12:50
RST38hdebian tools breaking for weird sb-related reasons12:51
RST38h(I am using sb2 though, so I have been warned :))12:51
jeremiah_Oh, scratchbox12:51
RST38hRight now, whatever Perl scripts deb packager runs all complain about some locale misconfiguration12:51
RST38hVery noisily, too12:51
jeremiah_I suppose I should look at the buglist to find more scratchbox - debian issues.12:52
RST38hThat is latest SB2 + Etch tools I think12:52
jeremiah_RST38h: Yeah, that is a hassle.12:52
jeremiah_I have had that in debian and in Ubuntu12:52
jeremiah_I will work on fixing that.12:52
RST38hAlso, I am making binary only packages (none of my stuff is GPLed) so I have it a bit easier than the rest12:52
jeremiah_how so?12:53
RST38hNo need to deal with autobuilder12:53
jeremiah_So the autobuilder is a source of frustration?12:53
RST38hAFAIK yes12:53
jeremiah_I am going to look carefully at autobuilder logs to try to eliminate some of that stuff.12:54
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RST38hThere is also a long standing request to autogenerate changes section from the deb package12:54
darktearsmmm scratchbox seems to be done12:54
darktearsis there any mirrors where i can get tarballs?12:54
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RST38hI.e. when a deb package is dput (dputted? :)) to the repo, the server should extract changes list (and probably some other stuff like icon, app name etc) and automatically copy it to the project page12:55
jeremiah_RST38h: You mean just to automatically create a complete change log from debian's - this is pretty much already done with dch12:55
RST38hRight now, doing it manually. No much hassle for a single package but becomes a chore when I commit 4-512:55
jeremiah_RST38h: I agree 100% with that - that should happen.12:56
RST38hjeremiah: The idea is not just to generate the log but to make it show at the project page12:56
jeremiah_Now I get it.12:56
RST38hpackage also carries an icon and a full app name, etc - all these can be made use of12:56
GAN800'project page'? Downloads or Garage?12:56
jeremiah_darktears: What exactly is down for you?12:56
darktearsjeremiah_: sorry the website12:57
RST38hgarage pages are not directly related to deb packages (usually)12:57
RST38hjeremiah: For the bottomless bin of requests, I suggest you talk to the guys improving Maemo App manager. That would be Jaffa and a few other folks12:58
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RST38hjeremiah: They are basically discussing much tighter integration of app manager with the repos (or extras repo at least)12:58
jeremiah_Did you try to install it using the scratchbox installer script from
jeremiah_darktears: ^^12:59
darktearsyes it wget on scratchbox.org12:59
jeremiah_RST38h: Okay, will do.12:59
jeremiah_darktears: ah, okay.12:59
jeremiah_That's not good.13:00
darktearsi didn't find any mirros somewhere...13:00
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jeremiah_darktears: I have filed a bug about it.13:04
jeremiah_Seems to be some other related internet issues in Finaland as well, can't reach movial.fi13:05
jeremiah_Finland has fallen off the internet.13:05
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ShadowJKnot all of it13:06
darktearsat least having mirrors in case can be good :D, scratchbox is not big13:06
timelE61iwE're here13:06
darktearsjeremiah_: but thanks13:07
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jeremiah_yay! At least timeless is online.13:07
timelE61imore like waiting for a manager who is late for a meeting13:07
timelE61iSo... I still need a solution13:08
timelE61iI'm tempted to just have my packages refuse to uninstall13:08
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jeremiah_timelE61i: Yes - I am still working on it, there are a couple other things on my plate too, but I have not given up.13:16
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andre__errr.... how should we fix a 3rd party server that is down?13:25
andre__what is a " is down " report about? to use more mirrors in the scripts? otherwise it's invalid...13:26
Stskeepsheh, if movial went bankrupt maemo sdk installer would be fried? :P (didn't read bug report)13:27
timelessandre: you can find a contact and report upstream :)13:27
timeless"hey, foopy, your servers are down"13:27
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timelessbut we could also host our own mirror13:28
timelessrelying on a third party for the sdk is um...13:28
andre__well, it happens all the time. same problem with some external dependencies in gnome :-P13:28
andre__this is the internet13:28
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lcuk2ermmmm could someone give me warning if movial get into difficulties and decide to have an omap3 firesale13:48
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* Stskeeps tries out prelinking on 770 for kicks.13:53
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igagisdoes anybody know how to disable screen tap sound for a particular application?13:59
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timelE61iigagis: err14:01
igagistimelE61i: ?14:01
timelE61iIf the user turns on or off sound globally14:01
timelE61iWhy should your app ignore the user's will?14:02
igagishm... my application produces its own sound on screen tap14:02
igagisand when there is that default sound played in parallel it sounds bad14:02
timelE61iand if the user turns off screen sounds?14:02
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igagisactually my application is made to produce sounds14:03
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timelE61iAnyway.. Standard technique:14:04
timelE61i1. Make a backup of your settings14:04
igagismy app is a kind of musical instrumen, when you tap screen it produces sound14:04
timelE61i2. Change the setting you don't know about from control panel14:04
timelE61i3. Make a new backup14:05
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timelE61i4. The backups are zip files14:05
timelE61iYou can compare them14:05
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jeremiah_andre__: Well, I thought I should report it to someone . . .14:05
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jeremiah_andre__: Where should a report about being down go to?14:05
timelE61iSimilarly, you can zip /var/lib/gconf which is where settings actually live14:05
timelE61iAnd diff that14:05
igagisok, understood14:05
igagisbut I wonder how other applications which works with sound disable that tapping sounds?14:06
igagisthe best way would be to disable tap sounds only for my application, while, if user taps outside the application window the tap sound would still play... is it possible?14:07
igagisThus, I need to disable these sound only for a life time of the application14:07
igagistimelE61i: from your explanation it looks like these sounds are produced somewhere in low level layers, possibly on driver level, so, it is not possible to control it per application, only system wide, by changing system settings. And also not possible from application. Anyway, thanks for help!14:13
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Stskeepsigagis: you can probably temporarily switch it in gconf though14:13
timelE61ii haven't read the sources14:14
andre__jeremiah_, to someone who can fix it :-D14:14
timelE61iBut the way it works is the sound is triggered *early*14:14
andre__(means: no idea)14:15
timelE61iLong before the app gets the message14:15
timelE61iSo the user knows that the system is going to respond14:15
qwerty12_N800the tap sound is produced by the closed source multimediad14:15
igagisOk, I may be thinking to switch it on gconf temporarily somehow...14:16
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lcuk2igagis, look at boxar14:31
lcuk2it does same thing14:31
lcuk2alternatively pyano does as well14:31
lcuk2not sure about the tap click sound, but it might be depending on which widget set you are clicking on14:31
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igagislcuk2: ok, I'll have alook at boxar, thanks14:46
jeremiah_andre__: Who might that be?14:47
jeremiah_Nokia owns the domain name14:47
andre__Movial, not Nokia14:50
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Myrttihello kids14:52
andre__hi mum14:52
* lcuk2 practices juknitku but gets himself tied in knots14:53
lcuk2ello Myrtti14:53
* Myrtti pinches andre__s cheek14:53
Stskeepsmorning Myrtti14:54
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lcuk2Stskeeps, if i rerun the flashing thing for mer again will it just overwrite everything on the mmc again15:06
Stskeepswhich now?15:06
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lcuk2the same15:06
Stskeepsflashing thing = which one :)15:07
lcuk2what ill do is rerun it and actually note down the observations15:07
lcuk2installation of mer from scratch15:07
Stskeepsit should overwrite everything yes15:07
lcuk2ill talk to you later about it anyway then, but if i make a note whilst doing it it may be easier to diagnose and find any root causes for things15:08
lcuk2catch ya later on15:08
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olican mplayer on n800 play rmvb files?15:20
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sistoanyone know how to switch between sheets on gnumeric for maemo?15:21
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timelE61ithe isp claims it should be up in an hour15:28
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timelE61iBut people should use sbox2 ;)15:28
qwerty12_N800If they find getting pissed off a favourite pastime, then yes15:29
Stskeepssb2 could be a lot saner, truely15:29
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Stskeeps~seen johnx15:49
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infobotjohnx <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 7d 19h 15m 4s ago, saying: 'wazd, nice find :)'.15:51
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JaffaPalm webOS detailed examples of producing apps:
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rm_youStskeeps: yeah dunno where he disappeared to...16:18
rm_youStskeeps: i've been looking for him for a while <_<16:18
* rm_you runs16:18
Stskeepsalright, we'll see :P hope he's alright16:19
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lcuk2thanks jaffa, ill look later16:20
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thopiekarjeremiah_: please write back if you are online..16:29
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RST38hWho are these entities? What are they doing?
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Stskeeps'Spellbound Hermit'?16:36
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Stskeepsah, true. SL.16:36
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Myrttiewwwww secondlife16:36
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* Stskeeps ponders how to improve performance on 770 16:38
inzliquid nitrogen?16:39
inzi bet you'd get 5GHz out of that baby16:40
Stskeepscyanide might do it. die before it's loaded, go to heaven anyway16:40
jeremiah_thopiekar: Hi there!16:41
Stskeepstried prelink but it didn't work :)16:41
thopiekarjeremiah_: where are my streamripper packages I uploaded to extras before?16:41
jeremiah_I'm not sure thopiekar. :)16:42
thopiekarhmm.. uploading them again?16:42
jeremiah_I don't think anyone removed them, if that's what you mean.16:42
jeremiah_I know I didn't, and I doubt X-Fade did. :)16:43
jeremiah_I can take a peak though . . .16:43
* jeremiah_ looks in the repos for thopiekar's packages16:43
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jeremiah_I see streamripper 1.63 in extras16:46
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thopiekarhmm I was looking for them in the promotion list of diablo but they where nowhere in the list I think... thanks for looking anyway :P16:47
jeremiah_Sure thing!16:48
woodong50when next version is out?16:48
jeremiah_Of Maemo?16:49
jeremiah_Next version of what?16:49
thopiekarjeremiah_: maemo.. :P16:49
* Myrtti takes out her crystal ball16:50
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RST38hjeremiah: About autobuilder:16:50
thopiekarMyrtti: :D16:50
RST38hjeremiah: There is a Python guy who was having problems with it. The nickname is Khertan, at this channel16:50
Myrtti*squeak* *squeak*16:50
Myrttia bit spotty reception, must be because I sneezed on it16:51
RST38hjeremiah: For C/C++ autobuilder users, I guess it is lardman, qwerty12, Stskeeps16:51
Stskeepsi have never touched autobuilder. :P16:51
thopiekarMyrtti: ;D16:51
jeremiah_RST38h:ah, okay.16:51
RST38hOk, scratch Sts out =)16:51
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RST38hjeremiah: two more packaging related issues:16:52
RST38hjeremiah: 1) installing stuff into ~  and 2) installing data to /dev/mmc*16:52
RST38hsorry/ media/mmc*16:53
jeremiah_RST38h: Hmm, installing into ~/ should not be hard.16:53
RST38hjeremiah: #1 has no decent solution right now, you have to resort to referring to /home/user directly but (fortunately) we have only got one user :)16:53
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RST38hjeremiah: #2 is usually done with one or another hack, but it is usually not pretty and a lot of packagers do not do it16:54
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jeremiah_RST38h: So you mean ~ does not work as an alias for /home/user?16:54
RST38hjeremiah: if you use ~ in the Makefile of a deb package, it causes some problems16:55
RST38hjeremiah: I don't remember what exact problems, but it does not work16:55
RST38hjeremiah: about #2: N8x0 / device is only 256MB in size and with some packages easily exceeding 10MB it gets filled up very very quickly16:56
RST38hjeremiah: So, a semistandard method of offloading ALL non-executable stuff to an mmc is a must (and packagers SHOULD use it)16:57
jeremiah_An An mmc is a multi media card?16:58
RST38hThere are two MMCs, N800 has them both external, N810 has a 2GB /media/mmc2 soldered to the board16:58
jeremiah_Yeah. I think better documentation around that (in fact both those issues) would help.16:58
pupnikbig packages like games can usually have their data reside on mmc16:59
RST38hMy guess is that mmc2 should be the default data location, with an option to select mmc116:59
jeremiah_I can vaguely recall that ~ is significant to debian packages so that is unlikely to get fixed.16:59
rm_youMyrtti: I played around with KnitML a bit, tried to understand that, somewhat failed because the only stitch I know is like... k2p2 and k2tog >_> had my GF try to explain others to me but failed16:59
RST38hjeremiah: remember that we build packages in scratchbox16:59
RST38hjeremiah: and scratchbox is somewhat of a schizo, sometimes it behaves like guest, other times like host16:59
jeremiah_RST38h: Okay. I need to do more work in Scratchbox to understand the environment better17:00
RST38hjeremiah: and sb2 too :)17:00
jeremiah_So right now we have _two_ development environments?17:00
jeremiah_Both supported?17:00
qwerty12_N800anybody using irssi from -devel btw? want to see if i can promote it (i'm not an irssi 'xpert & only did basic testing).17:01
RST38hSB2 is a "beta" but it is supported if you ask right people nicely17:01
jeremiah_I see.17:01
RST38hSB2 is by far saner, but still on the clinical side17:01
jeremiah_Sheesh, things are a bit complicated.17:01
jeremiah_Just like real life. :)17:02
RST38hactually, more complicated17:02
RST38hin real life, we would just have a cross compiler toolchain17:02
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RST38hLike I have for SigmaTel or ICNexus platforms17:03
* Jaffa scrollsback a bit - packages shouldn't be installing into ~ (or /home/user) any more than they should on Ubuntu or Debian (i.e. not at all)17:03
* Jaffa 's done C stuff with autobuilder (e.g. vim package from mud-builder)17:04
RST38hJaffa: There are cases when they should. I need to create a directory to save app state for example17:04
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JaffaRST38h: No, you still shouldn't do that on install. Your app should create the dir if necessary when saving the state17:05
jeremiah_Shouldn't that kind of thing go into /var/cache? Or some such?17:05
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RST38hJaffa: I need to place some initial state files there17:05
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JaffaRST38h: and, again, initial state files shouldn't be in /home/user - this'd all break horribly if your app was used on a multi user system (e.g. Mer at some point, perhaps - or maybe even Maemo)17:06
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* jeremiah_ reads his dead tree version of Maemo Packaging policy17:06
RST38hJaffa: maybe you are right, I have to rethink it17:06
RST38hJaffa: it will require some internal changes in the app though17:06
JaffaRST38h: if it's single user stuff, and the state needs to be held - then as jeremiah_ says, use /var/cache or /usr/share or something17:06
JaffaRST38h: no doubt - it sounds a little shonky at the moment ;-)17:06
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* Jaffa 's been doing code reviews all morning, and debugging a Hibernate weirdity. Probably not the most forgiving of architectural hiccups at the moment :)17:07
lcuk2i tohught you did not maintain anything statewise outside of ~17:07
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Sargun_ScreenJaffa: fun stuff. :-P17:07
RST38hlcuk: ~/.ati85/*.RAM =)17:08
lcuk2jeremiah_, how do you follow links with these "dead tree" documents?17:08
JaffaSargun_Screen: I *think* it might be a Hibernate bug: it works on a version of our database with a single id column, but not on a composite key version.17:08
lcuk2jeremiah_, get yourself a NIT and read from there17:09
jeremiah_lcuk2: It is exceedingly painful. :P17:09
jeremiah_I press the link until my fingers bleed.17:09
jeremiah_Then give up.17:09
Sargun_ScreenJaffa: hibernation is a hack.17:09
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JaffaSargun_Screen: This is, not Linux hibernate FWIW17:09
jeremiah_The packaging policy says;17:10
pupnikI think it will change... i don't think it will disappear entirely.17:10
jeremiah_Section 9, 9.1 File system Hierarchy17:10
Jaffajeremiah_: Kinda like (not for the squeamish - or those afraid of magenets)17:10
jeremiah_"TODO: This section has not been written yet."17:10
Sargun_ScreenJaffa: any kind of hibernation. :-)17:10
Sargun_ScreenJaffa: i saw that last night, scary stuff.17:11
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jeremiah_Jaffa: That was nasty!17:11
jeremiah_Jaffa: Now I scared of magnets.17:12
qwerty12_N800Jaffa: I stole one of those magnets when I took an old HD apart :)17:12
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RST38hjeremiah: You should really ask Nokia to give you a personal NIT17:15
RST38hjeremiah: It makes reading stuff on the go way easier17:15
lcuk2jaffa, is that the guy who crushed his index finger?17:15
lcuk2or the one who tried reading maemo app policy :P17:16
Jaffalcuk2: the former :)17:17
lcuk2i saw that, those neobomdium (spelling way off i know) magnets are lethal, after reading that i went reading up on the consequences of ingesting 1 or more of them17:17
lcuk2its not something you want to do17:18
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Jaffaezadkiel_mB: apparently17:23
ezadkiel_mBJaffa: thanks17:23
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jeremiah_RST38h: I did ask for one, they said it is in the mail. :)17:29
jeremiah_I will buy one myself it does not turn up soon though.17:29
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michael3How can I run avahi-daemon in the scratchbox? [sbox-DIABLO_ARMEL: /etc/default] > fakeroot avahi-daemon -D17:44
michael3This program is intended to be run as root.17:44
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slonopotamuswoot! launched lxde on gentoo today18:44
slonopotamusthat's cool :) virtual kb + browser and bye-bye, hildon :)18:44
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lcuk2RST38h, you mentioned a while ago you have some apps on s60, just looking through now, and whilst theres the brainfsck of c++ to wade through im not seeing anything technical that says i cant move liqbase over to it.  theres full screen interaction stuff available from what i can see18:54
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pupnikRebel Moon!18:56
lcuk2thats no moon!18:56
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StskeepsJaffa: multiple devices may make sense though, and different storage sizes19:02
Proteousit's like a thousand voices cried out, then were silenced19:02
Stskeepsi mean, we do clearly see phone stuff, but they also said next tablet is 3g-only :P19:02
Stskeeps(and hey, i'd love choice. :P)19:02
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lcuk2do i remember rightly about the multiple form factors.19:04
lcuk2wasnt it something ragnar said when discussing the dpad19:04
Proteouseither you choose to be at your desk on time from now on, or you choose to find yourself another job19:04
Proteousdo I make myself clear Mr. Anderson?19:05
StskeepsProteous: damnit, why do you have to complain when i come into work in boxers only on casual friday. :P19:05
JaffaStskeeps: where did they say next tablet is 3G only? Multiple storage sizes I can believe, but I have difficulty believing in different form factors19:05
* Proteous closes his eyes and wishes as hard as he can for a dpad that can be used for games19:06
qwerty12Proteous, Yes, Mr. Rhineheart. Perfectly clear.19:06
StskeepsJaffa: hmm, thought it was on slides from summit. i may be wrong.19:06
JaffaThey're certainly ensuring that in future Nokia will be able to have multiple Maemo devices in various form factors; I just don't think it's yet (although I wait to be pleasantly surprised)19:06
Stskeepsbut they have emphasized hsdpa -data- often, i think :P19:06
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ProteousThomas Anderson?19:06
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JaffaStskeeps: They've only said positives about it having HSPA data. They're never ruled anything else out19:07
qwerty12Proteous, Neo! Man, get with it! :P19:07
Proteousno no no, that's the next line, the fedex guy19:07
Proteousyou are suppose to say, Yeah, that's me19:07
JaffaStskeeps: I can't reconcile what we've seen about the phone stuff with a decent tabletesque form factor; unless it's reliant on BT headsets (and we know we're getting A2DP and AVRCP)19:07
Proteousthen I say, have a nice day19:07
qwerty12Hello, Neo. Do you know who this is?19:07
Proteous!!! morphius?19:08
ProteousI don't remember the next part well enough :P19:08
StskeepsJaffa: on the other hand, telephony-maemo in bluez..19:08
qwerty12Proteous, so don't I... :P19:08
ProteousWhen I tell you go to the end of the row, to the door at the end of the hall19:09
lcuk2jaffa, we have multiple form factors now, and as brother and sister the 800/810 are, they are totally different in terms of usability and expectations from users19:10
Proteousyeah, the 810 is way better19:10
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JaffaStskeeps: indeed19:10
ProteousI mean, who wouldn't want a keyboard19:11
lcuk2the keyboard is the principle differentiator for these devices19:11
ProteousWHO WOULDN'T I ASK YOU!!19:11
slonopotamusStskeeps, did you have ugly touchscreen behaviour in lxde?19:11
Jaffalcuk2: The N810 replaced the N800. Nokia never intended them to be complimentary devices on sale at the same time.19:11
MyrttiI wouldn't want a keyboard.19:11
lcuk2Proteous, you can get by without a keyboard if the touchscreen is efficient enough19:11
Stskeepsslonopotamus: hmm?19:11
Proteousget by, GET BY19:11
MyrttiI bought specifically n800 because it doesn't have a keyboard.19:11
Proteousyou can have your "get by"19:11
JaffaN810W and N810 are the first two Maemo devices in production at the same time properly19:11
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slonopotamusStskeeps, it doesn't handle mouse_up well19:12
lcuk2Myrtti, a lot are fine without it (iphone mindset) but an awful lot cant live without em19:12
* Myrtti feels unloved19:12
Proteousmost people buy the n800 for the two mem card slots19:12
Proteousother then that it's just a larger version of the 81019:12
lcuk2slonopotamus, mouse up from the tablets gets lost occasionally if the cpu is busy (at least in maemo)19:12
Proteouswith a worse screen19:12
MyrttiProteous: n810 doesn't have the correct keyboard layout, so I don't want to pay for a wrong one19:12
lcuk2Myrtti, why unloved?19:13
* Stskeeps dislikes the n810 keyboard too personally19:13
ProteousI don't think it's amazing, but I  like it better then the fricking onscreen one19:13
Myrttilcuk2: because Proteous tells me I'm a freak! *snif*19:13
slonopotamusStskeeps, tapping once counnts as mouce_down, not down + up19:13
ProteousI wouldn't listen to anything I say19:13
lcuk2i prefer the keyboard on 810 no matter how imperfect it is, its STILL better than my old zx81 or rubber keyed spectrum!19:14
woglindeluck hahahaaaa19:14
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Stskeepsslonopotamus: ah, no clue. you have our input-tslib?19:15
Proteousbest thumb keyboard ever was on my HP 48gx19:15
slonopotamusStskeeps, i used one from gentoo repo19:15
slonopotamusStskeeps, good catch19:16
slonopotamusStskeeps, it's patched too?19:16
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slonopotamusStskeeps, i saw that you had 0.0.5 and i had 0.0.5. i assumed they're equal :)19:17
Stskeepsslonopotamus: there's a bug in it afaik19:18
Stskeepsregarding tap19:18
Stskeepslemme find i19:18
slonopotamusStskeeps, and tslib is 1.0 on my side19:19
Stskeepssame as us19:19
slonopotamusStskeeps, where 'patch for button release' comes from?19:21
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slonopotamusandd who is John Bloom :D19:21
qwerty12John Bloom is johnx19:21
Stskeepsslonopotamus: some bug report in debian19:21
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slonopotamusStskeeps, thanks for support :)19:22
slonopotamusfound it:
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slonopotamusah. maybe just disable variance module? does it do anything useful?19:24
Stskeepsno clue19:24
Stskeepsthe patch i have works19:24
slonopotamusnext question. udev times out with bluez-utils installed and then barfs something about hci0.19:26
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Stskeepsdo you have the ln -s's to firmware?19:27
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Stskeepsbc4fw.bin i think19:27
slonopotamusargh. nope.19:27
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lcuk2 i want one of those!20:06
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Jaffalcuk2: Ref. board for the RX-51? ;-)20:08
florianlcuk: these are cute yes... well, the price could be worse.20:09
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lcuk$1000-$1500 technically not *that* bad lol20:09
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florianlcuk: hum well... its not really a consumer device20:10
JaffaBeer o'clock20:10
lcukflorian, dont expect it to be, hows your beagle coming on?20:10
lcukmmmmmmm beer20:10
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florianlcuk: yes pretty good - except of the fact that i lack the time to do the interesting things with it I have in mind20:11
lcuklol i wouldv jumped on one by now if it was all nicely built like that ref board ^20:12
lcuki too would be sat there staring at a bare circuit board20:12
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lcukjaffa, have you put any thoughts to your movie converter recently.  is there anything you would liek it to do but cant so far, or things you think might become possible with hspa access etc20:17
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Jaffalcuk: There's apparently a bug in it relating to subtitles; it probably could improve DVD ripping by trying to identify episode names/movie names by default (somehow); and it'll need a rename if they're not "tablets"; but the encoding side of it seems pretty feature complete - apart from a nice GUI20:19
Jaffalcuk: you offering to code stuff, or give me freebies? ;-)20:20
lcukim just pondering about desktop interaction and your app touches on it :)20:20
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lcukobviously mud builder is the other one that rolls around often ;) but for other reasons20:21
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Jaffalcuk: some thumbnail & metadate generation for liq* could work20:22
lcukentirely possible with tracker underneath, thats its prime function isnt it20:22
lcukthough i personally dont like media libraries :D20:23
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lcukjaffa, i hope what im writing will work, so far its going kinda smoothly, and i think im over my biggest humps, but the biggest challenges lie ahead..20:27
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DavidePalmWould it be difficult to install the os so it would boot from one of the cards?  to have more space for programs?   or  is it possible to force programs to install on the sd card?20:30
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JaffaDavidePalm: see...20:30
infoboti heard boot-sd is
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straindAnybody have a kismet package for the 770?20:30
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DavidePalmJaffa To improve performance (note, this is dependent on the quality of your flash card).20:35
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DavidePalmwhat does that mean?20:35
DavidePalmwhat sd card is better than the flash memory?20:35
DavidePalmhow fast does the card have to be?20:36
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lcukdunno DavidePalm just get the fastest you can (class 6?)20:40
lcuki have some crappy one here but barely notice speed problem in internal or mmc20:41
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lcukis it possible to make a complete clone of self?20:44
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zenvoidDavidePalm: the filesystem on the internal memory (jffs2) is compressed, so it may be actually faster and take less CPU to run from an external card with a uncompressed fs like ext320:46
zenvoidbut anyways difference is small, at least with my card20:46
lcukzenvoid, o_O didnt realise.  so its runtime compression when writing to ~ ?20:47
DavidePalmzenvoid, i see, does following that guide create an uncompressed file system automatically?20:47
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zenvoidlcuk: yes, jffs compression and decompression is handled transparently by the kernel20:48
zenvoideach time you write or read20:48
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* lcuk didnt know20:48
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lcukmy linux foo is lacking :) im happier messing with pixels20:49
lcuki wonder then how much cpu that involves and what i could use it for instead20:50
zenvoidno idea... I always run from sd card20:50
* Stskeeps wonders if ming387 is trying to get someone fired, heh20:50
lcukall my os is in internal and the dev headers and stuff are there20:51
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neatojonesI've been wondering the same thing.  He can't seem to get the hint.20:53
zenvoidDavidePalm: yes, following that guide you will create an ext2 filesystem, so it will be uncompressed20:53
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zenvoidin fact, I think that jffs2 can't be used in the sd card20:54
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Stskeepsi wouldn't mind compression once in a while20:55
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neatojonesam I right about this:  Mer (so far) uses the same kernel as Maemo, so changes to the Maemo kernel affect my Mer distro too?20:56
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neatojonesSo high speed kernel would make Mer high speed too, right?20:57
Stskeepszenvoid: remember the size of the left-hand icons btw?20:57
zenvoiddon't remember :P20:58
qwerty12_N800app menu is 64x64, menu you get when pressing home is 48x48 & task switcher on side is 26x2620:59
neatojonesStskeeps:  Things were running too well on my Mer.  Figure it's time to start over and try to ruin it all over again.20:59
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: as in the icons in the left bar are 26x26? :P21:00
* lcuk curses icon sizes21:00
zenvoidI remember that some icons are not square, 64x54, I think, anybody knows?21:00
neatojones...figure nothing will torch it quicker than unstable writing to my card.21:00
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Stskeepsneatojones: meh, good old fashioned FS corruption never hurt anyone21:01
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Stskeepsexcept for nuclear power plants, of cours21:01
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neatojonesGot a friend who is an engineer for one in Arizona.  Makes $500k plus.21:01
neatojonesSays they spends millions on researching the replacement of a simple push button.21:02
lcukand thank god they do21:02
Stskeeps Analyzing before and after versions visible in the document demonstrates how the Association for Competitive Technology, a lobbying group partially funded by Microsoft, is trying to widen the scope of open source to include 'mixed solutions blending open and proprietary code.'" <- is Slashdot trying to imply BSD license is not open source? :P21:02
Stskeeps(read: i really should stop reading slashdot.)21:03
lcuki can release an open source visual basic project21:03
lcukthat blends the two21:03
lcuki dunno what license i would need cos of the underlying libs21:04
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neatojoneslcuk:  I'd say lunch gets a PL721:05
ShutteR77Hello, friends! Today I want show you some my icons for Mer. Here you are - - apps icon, - chat icon, - web icon. Wait for your criticism or additions.21:05
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lcukShutteR77, people commonly put the icons in context and at expected scale ;) i love having things visible from orbit on the tablet, but when the messenger head is larger than my own it scares me :P21:06
* lcuk likes the first one though21:06
neatojonesI like them, but I don't think the web icon is intuitive.21:07
GeneralAntilles Snapdragon or Atom. I would've figured on an OMAP3640 myself.21:07
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i want a Z80 Nokia tablet.21:07
lcukneatojones, reminds me of boobies, what else is the web for?21:07
ShutteR77Sorry for my mistake.21:08
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N800, what's new with XChat?21:08
lcukShutteR77, not a mistake, just show em as we will see them on the tablet and people will marvel at your smooth lines :D21:09
neatojonesI want a cortex A9 in my next tablet...21:09
GeneralAntillesneatojones, likely . . . in 2010 or 2011.21:09
qwerty12_N800GeneralAntilles: nothing much, python security fix, locales consolidated into one package & a patch where you press dpad enter in the network list to connect (and edit the network name in the edit dialog)21:09
neatojonesless than a year away.  ;)  At the rate maemo 5 is coming (I'm joking people...)21:10
GeneralAntillesneatojones, early 2010 being when samples ship in volume to OEMs.21:10
lcukneatojones, its not just maemo5.  i still blame the whole worlds problems on the writers strike21:10
neatojonesstupid writers...21:11
neatojonesdang hollywood21:11
neatojoneswe need more bollywood21:11
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neatojonesShutteR77:  Could you put a watermark in the back of the globe of continent like shapes?21:12
neatojonesQuit destroying my dreams GeneralAntilles21:12
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* lcuk goes to asda since no reliable human cloning tech appeared21:13
ShutteR77neatojones yes I can, but not now, tomorrow i will do, now i have some tasks, sorry.21:13
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neatojonesno prob.  It was just a thought.  You don't ever HAVE* to do it.21:14
neatojonesOne thing is certain.  The next tablet will hopefully be better put together than my new Nokia phone.  I got it a month ago and I"m holding it together with electric tape.21:16
neatojones...wait.  2 months ago.21:16
neatojonesit's almost March21:16
Stskeepsmy n800 has taken endless beatings21:16
Stskeepsit still loves me21:16
neatojonesMy N810 is doing pretty well too.  But, getting a newer device that is put together sloppily still scares me.21:17
* qwerty12_N800 has smacked his N800 to the wall and has it smacked against a concrete floor. Still alive.21:17
* neatojones has a dog that trips on the N810 power supply and send the device flying across the room. (You'd think he'd learn to put it in a better place).21:18
neatojonesbrb...gotta run for some documents21:19
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AndrewFBlackWell after last night I'm happy I didn't get ride of my windows home server I was able to fix me wiping the windows partiton on my desktop21:29
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zchydemQTablet running hildon apps:
RST38hThe following packages will be REMOVED:21:39
RST38h  osso-software-version-rx4421:39
RST38hThe following packages will be upgraded:21:39
RST38h  libglade2-021:39
RST38hIs it ok to remove osso-software-version-rx44?21:40
qwerty12_N800install the o-s-v unlocked version instead21:40
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GeneralAntillesapt-get install osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked21:41
qwerty12_N800with the unlocked version, you can install the newer version of libglade w/out removing o-s-v21:42
hahlowhy it is locked?21:42
RST38hshould I confirm removal of the locked version though?21:43
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qwerty12_N800nah, install the unlocked version first and then you can upgrade as normal21:43
RST38hthanks =)21:44
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RST38hit does not let me install the unlocked version21:45
RST38h  osso-software-version-rx44: Conflicts: osso-software-version-variant21:45
RST38h  osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked: Conflicts: osso-software-version-variant21:45
qwerty12_N800odd, osso-software-version-variant was for chinook21:45
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GeneralAntilleshahlo, because Nokia only tests with a specific set of package versions.21:48
hahloah, ok21:48
GeneralAntillesCareless upgrades have the potential to cause instability and aren't supported.21:48
* GeneralAntilles wonders if karma is going to be fixed in time for the election. . . .21:49
GeneralAntillesAlso: mad props to the first person to nominate.21:49
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pupniki am enjoying, in a perverse way, how few other people have picked up games porting in my absence21:50
GeneralAntillesSomething makes me think it'll pick up for the next tablet.21:52
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RST38hpupnik: even fewer are porting non-game apps21:59
* RST38h kinda got his wish of linuxdc++ port, but it is unusable =(21:59
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mikkov_qwerty12, anyway to get rid of scroll bars in zenity?
qwerty12_N800mikkov_: you can set the size of the dialog, let me find how I did it22:07
mikkov_ah, --width=WIDTH --height=HEIGHT22:08
mikkov_and --title22:08
RST38hpupnik: it is a p2p app22:08
RST38hpupnik: used inside the community network here22:09
pupnikah ty22:09
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mikkov_qwerty12, any way to get rid of "Cancel" button? :)22:13
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qwerty12_N800mikkov_: Don't think so :(, when you press it, it returns " " so when I was using it, I added an if statement that runs zenity again when pressed :/22:15
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woglindealas gcc-4.4 has to come quick22:26
woglindeand for fremantle too22:26
qwerty12_N800mikkov_: I'll try and add an option to remove the button tomorrow22:29
woglindeah nice its at stage 322:29
woglindeI hope this means it will come in the next 2 months22:30
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mikkov_option to remove cancel button seems to be on todo list at, send patches there :)22:32
qwerty12_N800You'd have thought they'd have thought of this already :)22:33
`0660must be a trap22:34
`0660they try to lure new developers by omission of trivial features22:34
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pupnikwe should petition Obama to stimulate tablet sales22:45
pupniksorry, lame comment22:45
`0660i think we should wait for the tablet to be released first :)22:47
qwerty12_N800a bong?22:48
ShadowJKwoglinde, are you implying a gcc point-0 release will be usable for arm?22:48
woglindeShadowJK hm I think so22:49
woglindeafter saw the commits22:49
woglindeand it will help a lot in terms of atomic ops22:49
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GeneralAntillesClearly it's tuna melt time.22:50
mikkov_qwerty12_N800, actually I found use for that Cancel button22:56
qwerty12_N800if `zenity whatever` = " "; then dbus-send --print-reply --type=method_call --dest=org.freedesktop.Notifications /org/freedesktop/Notifications org.freedesktop.Notifications.SystemNoteInfoprint string:'rm -rf'ing /' :)22:58
mikkov_hmm, I may just do that ;)23:01
qwerty12_N800then watch as your product gets only one star ;P23:02
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mikkov_cancel will refresh list of locations. User has a chance to insert memory card in the middle of install process23:05
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mikkov_(of course it will not be told in dialog :)23:06
mikkov_but if I could change the text in buttons..23:08
qwerty12_N800yeah... I have no idea what --cancel-label seems to do - at least "Cancel" still says "Cancel"...23:09
mikkov_it seems to be only for --question23:10
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qwerty12_N800You may be able to ask Bundyo for his gxmessage maemoized port & package for extras - that lets you set button text23:12
qwerty12_N800(looking @
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rm_youGeneralAntilles: it's always tuna melt time :)23:18
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RST38hArsonists Torch Berlin Porsches, BMWs on Economic Woe!23:21
rm_youthat a headline?23:22
RST38hInteresting method to raise demand for new cars23:22
qwerty12_N800meh, should have had a spot of joyridin' in 'em23:22
RST38hqwerty: They are real revolutionaries, not selfish! =)23:22
rm_youwhich is worse, Arson or Grand Theft Auto? >_>23:23
cheng_99hi, does anyone know how to set configure option to use gstreamer instead of glib?23:23
cheng_99at sofia-sip-cli23:23
qwerty12_N800in gta, you can use molotovs so you get best of both worlds :)23:23
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cheng_99hello, anyone knows sofsip-cli?23:25
qwerty12_N800correct me if i'm wrong, but don't glib & gstreamer provide *totally* different things23:26
RST38hGeneral: Oh YESSSS23:28
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cheng_99that's what i thought. but if you read the README here, it can use gstreamer, but i don't know how to configure it through configure23:31
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qwerty12_N800./configure --help | grep -i gstreamer?23:32
cheng_99one more question, it the maemo repository working alright now? i cannot use my apt-get update now23:32
zakkmb-man: is there any other solution to ubuntu besides your long guide?23:33
b-mani'm working on an installer ;)23:33
lcukzakkm, you can request a cd from canonical23:33
jeremiah_cheng_99: There were some outages earlier, but that should be up now.23:33
lcukor did you mean on the desktop23:33
zakkmi meant ubuntu on nokia, not desktop23:33
zakkmi have for desktop23:33
lcukjeremiah_, im gonna tell your wife you are ignoring her and doin work stuff :P23:34
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zakkmthat wouldnt require a long guide too.. "download ___"23:34
Maceryah. the little artigo is a beast23:34
Macerit's been doing the xp thing pretty good for what it is.. i mounted it on the back of my desk :)23:34
zakkmb-man: any experimental one i can try? like a pre alpha perhaps?23:34
jeremiah_lcuk: Heh! She is in the other room wathcing TV!23:34
jeremiah_I snuck away to talk to you lot.23:34
lcukthats the open source excuse :P23:34
b-manzakkm: i'm still creating it :)23:35
cheng_99´╗┐jeremiah_:  but i cannot do update even now23:35
GeneralAntillesjeremiah_, you totally need a tablet. ;)23:35
jeremiah_I know!23:35
jeremiah_Then I can do both!23:35
jeremiah_Watch TV and surf!23:35
lcukthat way you can *pretend* to be watching tv23:35
* Myrtti can donate her 77023:35
zakkmhate long guides from nokia ;p23:35
cheng_99Failed to fetch  Temporary failure resolving ''23:35
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cheng_99i am trying to get maeo-cplusplus-env23:36
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lcukMyrtti, if you get rid of your 770 you will regret it!23:36
* b-man has been very busy lately and has only had a fuew hours out of the day to work on ubuntu :(23:36
Macera 770? :)23:36
Myrttilcuk: not if I give it out to a good cause :-P23:36
Maceri doubt that haha23:36
lcuklol Myrtti like giving blood23:36
MyrttiMacer: it's perfectly good device!23:36
MacerMyrtti: never said it wasn't.. but i doubt you will regret it23:36
lcukmacer, from what i understand the graphics bus on the 770 is more than capable (better even than 8x0)23:37
MyrttiI'm probably going to keep it for running Mer on it23:37
jeremiah_Its amazing you guys (and gals) know all the models of Nokia products by their model numbers.23:37
* lcuk needs to get some loving time with a 770 running chinook23:37
Macerbut lacking in cpu/gpu/ram/features :)23:37
Myrttiperhaps my partner will tinker it to be a remote control for the home automation system23:37
lcukjeremiah_, theres only 3, its not rocket science23:37
jeremiah_Oh, only three that we care about.23:37
Macerespecially when you can get an n800 for peanuts :)23:37
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zakkmb-man: does your guide if i follow it and before i do ubuntu-desktop, would it have ssh installed? ( i have n800 )23:38
lcukjeremiah_, unless you can divulge more :D23:38
jeremiah_lcuk: 1. They don't tell me anything. 2. NDA23:38
b-manzakkm: most likely23:38
* Myrtti knows only about half of Nokias products by number23:38
lcuk770 is grandfather machine :)23:38
jeremiah_3. See 1.23:38
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GeneralAntilleslcuk, as with all staff, they don't know anything. :P23:39
lcukjeremiah_, its ok, we will wait for the next summit, get you (and the rest of the nokians) drunk and find out everything23:39
lcukgood point23:39
Maceryou can ebay an n800 for like $10023:39
qwerty12_N800jeremiah_: you're meant to be our nokia man on the inside!23:39
* qwerty12_N800 cries23:39
Macerwonder how much a n770 is going for23:40
jeremiah_lcuk: Getting me drunk will be easy - you'll still get nothing from me. :)23:40
* lcuk waits for GeneralAntilles to fix macers typo23:40
jeremiah_Except that I know about . . .23:40
jeremiah_A nano meter thin tablet, that is made of epaper.23:40
lcukhopefully by then we will have new toys to keep us occupied anyway23:40
zsMacer: there is no n770 device ;)23:40
jeremiah_Full qwerty keyboard in software23:41
Macerzs: there sure isn't :)23:41
GeneralAntilleslcuk, I mean, why do you think we hired them? For their quick wit and good looks? Pah! They're the only ones we could con into working for used tablet slipcases. :P23:41
lcuknoooooooo nano thin is bad23:41
lcukit would cause horrendous papercuts23:41
jeremiah_Rolls up and folds into your pocket.23:41
jeremiah_One year battery life.23:41
lcukjeremiah_, might i direct you to the book shop23:41
jeremiah_Wifi, 801b/g LTE, 4G, Wimax23:41
lcukthey have these kinds of devices23:41
Maceri still like my n800 tho23:41
lcukonly with longer battery life ;)23:41
Macerwish i had an n810 :)23:41
Macerjust for the qwerty23:41
zsbuy one ;)23:42
lcukqwerty is here somewhere23:42
olinot really for gps? :>23:42
jeremiah_And will cost 14 Euros!23:42
Maceri have found myself using my G1 10x more than my n80023:42
Macerblah.. GPS is overrated23:42
tank-mann800 isnt a phone23:42
oliMacer: the android one?23:42
lcukjeremiah_, which handheld devices have you got/had in the past?  or have you come from all big machines23:42
Maceroli: yes23:42
lcuktank-man, voip is enough for 99% of phone uses23:42
jeremiah_lcuk: Mostly bigger machines - oddly enough they were embedded too.23:42
tank-manbut he was comparing a phone to n80023:43
Maceralso. if wimax was actually anywhere but baltimore.. i'd get a n810 w/ wimax in a heartbeat23:43
jeremiah_lcuk: But I do own one small hand held thingy.23:43
jeremiah_It was bought for my by my wife.23:43
Macerdamn you nextel/sprint! with your false promises23:43
lcukwhat is it then23:43
Macertank-man: i meant in terms of usability23:43
Macernot just for making phone calls23:43
Macerslap skype on an n800 and you can cal people just fine :)23:44
Maceri am talking about programs/features/usability etc... the qwerty goes a long way.. not to mention the stronger gpu in the G1 .. love my n800 tho.. it is a beast :)23:44
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qwerty12_N800arrgh! why tf did I set xchat to highlight on qwerty >.<23:45
* lcuk likes the gpu on the 810 just fine. its better than the kindle one ;)23:45
Macerlcuk: no 3d accel23:46
lcukqwerty, highlight bingo is good23:46
lcuksome nights it bongs all the time23:46
lcukMacer, what do you need 3d for?23:46
Macerbetter looking interface?23:46
Macer3d snake?23:46
lcukwhat? psdoom?23:46
lcukwhat 3d interfaces exist now23:46
lcukin regular use ^23:47
Macerandroid is rendered on the G123:47
GeneralAntilleslcuk, there isn't an active GPU on the N810. . . .23:47
Macerpull out menu and stuff is tranparent and rendered :)23:47
lcuktransparent doesnt need 3d though?23:47
Macernot to mention there are actually 3d acceled games forthe G1.. they suck.. but hey :)23:47
Macerlcuk: it is still rendered23:47
lcukgaming is different and i agree23:48
Macerit is smooth23:48
lcukyeah, i know all about smooth :)23:48
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lcuki would love to see how liqbase handled itself on a kindle23:48
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Maceri'm still sad over my damn shuttle23:49
olilcuk: are you going to add fake-multitouch image stretching to next liqbase? :>23:49
Macerpiece of shit.. either i'll try to RMA it back to newegg or just get a new one for $90 from somewhere23:49
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lcukmmmnm, there might be native multitouch events which might be possible to ummm maybe somehow be creatively ummm abused in some manner but thats all tbc23:50
Macerwow java is a whore23:51
lcukbut i hadnt thought about it too much recently, ive had other things to sort out23:51
Macersucking up everything around it and spitting it out with herpes23:52
lcukahhh then java isnt a whore, either that or you aren't paying it enough23:52
Maceri guess my 1GHz C7 isn't paying enough23:53
zakkmwow nice :)23:53
Macerbut it is nice that i have a computer half the size of an internal optical drive mounted on the back of my desk23:53
Macerzakkm: artigo23:54
lcuksitting at my desk feels wrong, its got no tablet on it23:54
Macervia pico-itx based system23:54
zakkmyeah i google'd :)23:54
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Macerit's pretty strong for what it is23:54
lcukmacer!! in times gone by i had a whole computer in a unit smaller than the keyboard im on now23:54
zakkminternet is going slow, trying to debootstrap ubuntu for nokia23:54
zakkmi want to try out the e17 :)23:54
* b-man updates tablet-wireless and tablet-network-setup in ubuntu repo23:54
lcukand i have a handheld one with a screen as well23:54
Macerlcuk: that would be the artigo :) haha23:54
lcukzx spectrum actually :P23:54
zakkmya ya sounds fun23:55
zakkmi like trying out stuff, and i love mac so im not switching desktop ;p23:55
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Macermacs are OK .. i never bought into them .. i was able to get a mb for $500 off of someone getting rid of it23:56
Macerone of the smaller black ones23:56
tank-mannegative iphone story on with over 600 replys :)23:56
zakkmid buy that off you23:56
Maceri mean.. it's OK.. i don't see what the big deal is :)23:56
zakkmMacer: i use mac x86..23:56
Macerzakkm: i use it23:56
zakkmi got it planned though, so full support and such23:56
zakkmreal mac disc23:56
zakkmgot a perfectly supported motherboard and all, i love mac :)23:56
Macerwhat do they do that makes it different?23:57
zakkmgot a 22" WS monitor the other day23:57
Maceri mean is there just some sort of thing they put on it ?23:57
zakkmmac itself or hackintosh?23:57
zsMacer: an apple ;)23:57
zakkmhackintosh just uses a fake bootloader.23:57
zakkmto let it boot23:57
zakkmthen theres people that make drivers for stuff apple wouldnt put in the OS23:58
Macerit's just a mach kernel isn't it?23:58
zakkmor alternative.23:58
zakkmi use an alternative, but mach works fine23:58
Macermach kernels aren't gpl ?23:58
zakkmyes they are23:59
zakkmwell heh23:59
Macerdoes apple release the source?23:59
zakkmits illegal anyways, hackintosh23:59
jeremiah_Yes, you can get Darwin for free23:59
jeremiah_The parts on top of it are proprietary23:59
jeremiah_Like Aqua23:59
qwerty12_N800Macer: kernel source is released as part of darwin afaik23:59

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