IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2009-02-24

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torkianoanybody know if maemo 5 will be compatible with nokia 810 tablets?00:10
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GeneralAntillestorkiano, not officially.00:12
GeneralAntilles~mer00:12
infoboti guess mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer00:12
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torkianoGeneralAntilles: very interesting, thank you00:15
GeneralAntillestorkiano, Fremantle's going to support a lot of hardware features that aren't available on the current generation of tablets.00:16
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GeneralAntillesNokia decided that it'd be more feasible to put any backport efforts into a community effort instead of trying to support it officially.00:17
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torkianoGeneralAntilles: It would great if fremantle support old hardware too :(00:21
torkianomer is a official initiative from Nokia?00:21
GeneralAntillestorkiano, it's a community initiative that's receiving Nokia support.00:21
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torkiano"Making Maemo a generic platform for all tablet devices, including non-Nokia ones." -> essential in my point of view00:23
torkianosee android, for example00:23
GeneralAntillesIt's unfortunate that Android and LiMo, etc are getting so much press when that's really where Nokia should have positioned Maemo.00:23
guysoft42hey, is there someone here that syncs gpe to a syncml server? i have a server running but i am not sure how to sync to it00:24
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torkianoGeneralAntilles: yes, but you can install andorid in a phone, a laptop or a nokia 810...00:27
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torkianoanyway i would like to start to develop for maemo. I would start with fremantle or wait for mer?00:31
GeneralAntillesWell, do you own a device?00:32
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torkianoGeneralAntilles: yes, a n81000:35
GeneralAntillesWell, Fremantle's current SDK releas isn't quite ready for application development.00:35
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GeneralAntillesMer is largely compatible with Diablo, so developing for Mer or Diablo will work.00:36
torkianoI installed sdk+, is it compatible with mer?00:36
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torkianoGeneralAntilles: http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/00:41
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guysoft42hey, i seem to be having something strange, halfway apt-get update, my device gives up.. and just times out on all the links, here is the output: http://pastebin.com/m3cf541e4 did anyone ever get something like this?01:01
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b-manit looks like you might have a bad connection, have you tryed with a different acses point?01:05
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b-man@guysoft4201:07
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guysoft42just fixed it.. it seemed to be because of the usb network01:12
guysoft42b-man, ^01:12
pupnikipn01:12
b-manguysoft42: sweet :)01:12
guysoft42i am trying to get some solution to sync up to a funambol server i set up.. and it seems to be giving me a hard time01:13
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* b-man really hates maemo-launcher :P01:19
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lcukill ponder it some more anyway01:27
lcukballs01:27
* lcuk meant to be in the console01:27
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guysoft42ok this is strange.. my application catalogs has vanished,however the file at /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager is still ok..01:51
guysoft42did anyone ever get this?01:51
guysoft42hmm.. is there a way to update all the xml file of hildon-application manager from apt-get?01:56
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bensondes^^:04:18
bensonOops, in wrong window...04:18
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guysoft42hell i am in trobble..04:39
guysoft42um, what to do if i foolishly did a dist-upgrade. and lost tar? now i carn't install anything04:39
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timelE61iGuysoft: um, do you have busybox ?04:56
timelE61iIf so, a symlink for tar to busybox should work04:56
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GeneralAntillesThe promoter seems to think e2fsprogs is in Extras05:31
GeneralAntillesbut I don't see it there.05:31
GeneralAntillesAh, nevermind.05:34
GeneralAntillesSo, why isn't it promoted?05:34
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rm_youjott: >_>05:35
rm_youanyone heard from jott in the last month or two? lol05:35
GeneralAntillesNo05:35
rm_you:(05:36
GeneralAntillesHis nick is always here05:36
GeneralAntillesBut he hasn't responded in maybe 4 months.05:36
rm_youhaven't heard from him since I got back from the summit O_o05:36
rm_youI'm actually kinda worried about him :/05:36
GeneralAntillesYeah, I dunno.05:36
GeneralAntillesYou have his number? :P05:36
rm_youah, yeah I do05:36
rm_youi forgot05:37
rm_youmaybe I should give him a call05:37
timelE61iheh05:37
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N800 would be able to confirm, but it seems like he's had some activity elsewhere.05:37
GeneralAntillesAs the rotation packages were updated for 43-7 and I think he may have been active on the Qt lists.05:38
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GeneralAntillesShopper 0.5 lost my list. :(05:54
GeneralAntillesThat's . . . obnoxious.05:55
GeneralAntillesApparently it can't use older lists. :\05:55
GeneralAntillesNo import, no warning.05:55
rm_you<_<05:55
GeneralAntillesQt port is a bit rough.05:56
* GeneralAntilles sighs.05:56
GeneralAntillesI don't have the energy to recreate that list.05:56
rm_youpoor GA :(05:57
GeneralAntillesPoor is right. How am I supposed to continue eating if I can't remember those buy-one-get-one-free deals? :P05:58
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guysoft42timelE61i, no i dont :(06:01
guysoft42timelE61i, i think it removed busybox and that what killed it06:02
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guysoft42i am quite in a problem here, its 6AM, i want to sleep, but my maemo is not well :S06:03
guysoft42isn't there a way to bypass bash: ./tar: cannot execute binary file ?06:03
GeneralAntillesguysoft42, recommendation for the future: don't leave the SDK repo enabled on-device. ;)06:04
guysoft42GeneralAntilles, any one for the present? i mean, apt-get is working.. all i need is the basic package06:04
guysoft42GeneralAntilles, and i have ssh.. i thought i might be able to ssh as root, then i could use the dpkg tool on my system..06:05
guysoft42but i carn't get the root to allow ssh06:05
guysoft42it wants a password06:05
guysoft42um, where can i get the busybox binary?06:06
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guysoft42can anyone send me the busybox binary? it does not seem to exist in the repo06:09
guysoft42can someone please send me a link to the busybox binary, i am compiling the damn thing at this point :S06:13
guysoft42:checklist.c:(.text+0x54): undefined reference to `waddch' dammit..06:15
bensonguysoft42: which busybox?06:19
guysoft42GeneralAntilles, could you by chance send me your busybox file from /bin?06:19
guysoft42benson, /bin/busybox06:20
guysoft42i just tried the armel one in lenny and got ./busybox: /lib/libc.so.6: version `GLIBC_2.7' not found (required by ./busybox)06:20
bensonThere's one in /mnt/initfs, perhaps you could use it still?06:20
guysoft42-bash: /mnt/initfs/bin/busybox: No such file or directory .. strange, it exists , maybe its a symnlink?06:21
guysoft42benson, could you maybe give me that file? i REALLY need it06:22
bensonYou'ld need to chroot... oh wait, choot is busybox, isn't it!06:22
bensons/ho/hro/06:22
infobotbenson meant: You'ld need to chroot... oh wait, chroot is busybox, isn't it!06:22
guysoft42i am in the right chroot. but i need basic tools in the system06:23
bensonI mean chroot /mnt/initfs, only of course... chroot is busybox.06:24
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guysoft42benh, i can see initramfs06:25
guysoft42its not really there06:26
guysoft42i think its symnlinks or something06:26
guysoft42but i carnt check06:26
bensonguysoft42: http://rapidshare.com/files/201830140/busybox.html06:26
guysoft42thank god ... just a sec06:27
guysoft42yay it works!06:27
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guysoft42benson, could you do the same thing with tar? perhaps?06:30
guysoft42ah wait nevermind06:30
bensontar is busybox06:30
bensonjust symlink06:30
guysoft42sudo busybox su ysy!06:31
guysoft42yay!*06:31
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guysoft42yay! thanks benson .. i got apt working06:40
guysoft42ok. i have passed a dist-upgrade06:47
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guysoft42oh hell, it didn't boot06:53
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jaemgood morning07:32
tank-manyour isp looks like mine and it ain't morning around here07:41
jaemtrue07:41
jaemhttp://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html07:41
tank-man:)07:42
Stskeepstoo bloody early07:53
jaemhello stskeeps07:53
jaemis there an official package for the Hildon version of wxWidgets?07:56
jaemor even an unofficial, but maintained package07:56
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Stskeepsjaem: maybe in extras07:58
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jaem...doesn't look like it08:01
jaemI suppose I'll just compile it myself08:02
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Macerhm08:15
Macerhi08:16
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jaemstskeeps: to make Debian's package work on Maemo, I just have to change one ./configure switch.  I'm reading through the packaging policy, but for a modification that small, is there much I need to worry about?08:53
StskeepsMaemo packaging policy? i'd say just put a changelog entry with maemo1 :P09:02
jaemokay -that's easy09:06
jaemproviding this works09:06
jaemI have my friend's server remoted on my second monitor, running the Maemo SDK VM09:06
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jaembut there's some issue with NX, which is remapping a whole bunch of my non-alphanumeric keys to strange things, so typing on the remote is annoying09:07
Stskeepshehe, yeah09:07
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Stskeepsit's funny listening to the Mer builder standing behind me, heh09:08
jaemoh?09:08
Stskeepsmeans i have audiotory(sp) response to when my builds are stalled or dead :P09:08
jaemyeah... I know what you mean09:08
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jaemmy desktop is fairly quiet when building, but I was doing a lot of OpenEmbedded builds overnight last year, and I'd often drift off to sleep with my last conscious thought being "oh darn, the build failed"09:09
Stskeepshehe09:10
jaemI suppose the package should be called wxmaemo, right?  I seem to remember hearing it called that, despite there not being a package, AFAIK09:10
Stskeepsi thought there was wxwindows port really09:11
Stskeepswith wxGTK09:12
jaemI couldn't find any reference to an actual package - just a blog post telling people about the --with-hildon switch09:12
Stskeepsah09:12
Stskeepsi would actually call it the original name09:12
Stskeepsso applications written for wx will automatically pick it up09:12
jaemsomeone commenting on the blog mentioned something about a now-out-of-date package, but the link was dead09:12
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jaemhttp://wxwidgets.blogspot.com/2007/11/hildonizing-wxgtk.html refers to it as wxMaemo, which was why I thought I would09:13
jaemit probably should be differentiated from the standard GTK (non-hildon) lib09:13
Stskeepswhy, though?09:14
Stskeepsif it has same API..09:14
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Stskeepsbut i guess jeremiah_ might be a good person to ask about this09:14
jaemthe various wxwidgets packages I've seen on other platforms all had names corresponding to their toolkit09:14
Stskeepsmm09:15
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jaemand the blog calling it that was linked to from the news item on the wxWidgets site09:15
jaemso I just assumed...09:15
Stskeepswell can the wx apps pick it up and use it straight away?09:16
mikkov_hildon support for wxwidgets is in svn version09:16
jaemmikkov_ it appears to be in the stable version09:16
jaemjudging by the package source I pulled from debian09:16
jaemand, stskeeps: I'm just talking about the package name09:17
jaemI won't change the libs or anything09:17
mikkov_ok, I thought that it will in 2.9 version09:17
Stskeepsk09:17
Stskeepsjaem: still, build-dependancies09:18
jaemstskeeps: okay, that's a good point09:18
mikkov_package has to be the same09:18
mikkov_there's no point in changing that09:18
jaemsure09:19
Stskeepsstill i'd check with jeremiah_ first before uploading to extras :)09:20
jaemwilldo09:20
Stskeepsas it might potentially break stuff09:20
jaemfor now, I'll just change the switch, and disable OpenGL09:20
jaemthat should do it09:20
jaemif the package version is 2.8.7.1-1.1 in Debian, what should I enter it as for the maemo build?  I haven't actually packaged anything for other people before, so I don't know the proper ways of things09:22
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qwerty12_N800the maemo policy describes versioning quite well09:22
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* Stskeeps watches Xomap build09:24
mikkov_add maemo109:24
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jaemyes, thanks09:25
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: was apt ever uploaded to builder or want me to do that?09:26
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: i was waiting for it to be tested... I can upload but will not give a shit if it fucks up09:26
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: fair enough, will test during today09:27
Stskeepsthen we can upload sources and put it through builder i guess09:27
Stskeepshas to be armel-native anyway as the code is C++ :/09:27
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mikkov_wxwidgets is called wxwidgets. If you would have change package name for maemo specific changes, all packages would be maemo-something09:28
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qwerty12_N800which, thanks to maemo's copyright policies, cannot be done any more09:29
jaemokay, sorry for my confusion09:29
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Stskeepsmorning daperl09:33
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Jucatois there a metapackage to get a C/C++ compiler on maemo (on the n810 itself)? just need to be able to compile simple C++ homework from school :)09:44
Stskeepsthink there is a devel environment thing for it in extras-devel09:44
qwerty12_N800build-essential in sdk repo09:45
Jucatooh something like build-essential, yeah.. but only on an SDK/scratchbox?09:45
jaemhas another package replaced python-central?  I'm getting the "no installation candidate" error...09:45
JucatoI guess I could do things manually one by one...09:45
qwerty12_N800Jucato: no, installable on tablets09:46
Jucatoqwerty12_N800: oh thanks.09:46
qwerty12_N800jaem: don't think it ever existed in maemoland :/09:46
* Jucato hunts said repo09:46
jaemqwerty12: hmm... what is it, exactly?09:46
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qwerty12_N800Not really sure myself but I think it's a system where python modules get managed and get installed into the correct python/site-packages folder09:48
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jaemgrr... this is not the time of night I want to run into this sort of thing...09:48
Jucatoqwerty12_N800: would this be the source of the repo? http://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/09:49
herwoodgood morning09:50
inzooh, animated startup screen in svn09:50
inzno moar static hands ;)09:51
herwooddoes anyone know how to set kernel console output to N810's screen?09:51
Stskeepsnow it's a creepy hand crabbing the kid instead? :P09:51
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inzsts, there only teh codes, no animation09:51
herwoodI'm compiling the kernel by myself but for some reason it keeps on rebooting (maybe because kernel panic during bootup09:52
Stskeepsdamnit ;)09:52
Corsacherwood: don't you forgot to use an initrd?09:52
jaemqwerty12: it's in fremantle, but not diablo09:52
jaemit's only a build-dep, so would there be any issue if I just grab the deb for now, to see if this works, and do it properly when I've had more sleep?09:53
herwoodCorsac: yes, I'm using initrd but I suppose that I have something wrong with my kernel configure09:53
inzsts, but it seems to use gstreamer and include a conffile. so i guess it's whatever you want09:53
jaemoh wait... never mind09:53
jaemnot an issue09:53
herwoodor the modules I'm using09:53
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Stskeepsinz: we so need some animation for mer with that happy shark..09:53
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Proteousdamn happy sharks09:54
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Proteoussharks are suppose to be fierce!! Not happy09:54
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Proteousbig teeth, but jaws, big RAWR I'M GOING TO EAT YOU NOM NOM NOM NOM NOM09:55
Corsacherwood: I mean, don't your forget to say that you're using an initrd at build time?09:55
qwerty12Jucato, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3405#add_comment09:55
qwerty12herwood, http://wiki.maemo.org/Advanced_booting#Boot_messages09:56
Proteousdo sharks really nom nom nom? or is it more like CRUNCH, bloody water, gore, oh the humanity09:56
Jucatoqwerty12: thanks09:56
jaemI don't know... the ones I deal with just sniff packets09:56
Proteousheh09:56
Proteousshark, packet shark, shark in the packet, gonna need a bigger switch09:57
qwerty12~feed Proteous to a shark09:57
* infobot gives Proteous to a shark on a paper plate and seats Proteous on the park bench.09:57
Proteousheh09:57
herwoodqwerty12: thanks, I'll try that out09:57
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jaemmy friend was trying to find a good model of a shark made of wire to hang in his dorm09:57
jaembut alas, we couldn't find anything09:58
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Proteousmy brother made some sweet dragons out of wire10:02
Proteoussadly there are no pics of them on the interwebs that I know of10:02
jaemyes, but that lacks the geek humour quality of a wire shark10:02
jaemstill - it sounds cool10:03
Proteousyou kids and you wire sharks, in my day we didn't have any animals, if we wanted to sniff packets we had to use more ethereal things10:03
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jaemtouche10:03
Proteous:)10:03
jaem(that had an invisible accent on the e, btw)10:03
timelE61iit's the thought that counts?10:07
jaemthat's what they say10:08
jaemwhich is why I think of being nice to people, and then don't10:08
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tank-man a wire spider is cooler10:20
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Proteousisn't that what you take fries out of the deep fryer with...10:23
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tank-manwire basket maybe10:26
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Proteoushttp://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/31xZ3cDi1%2BL._SL500_AA280_.jpg10:29
tank-manlol, bored?10:29
Proteoushttp://www.amazon.com/Helens-Kitchen-7-Inch-Spider-Skimmer/dp/B000PKQ5PE/ref=pd_sbs_hg_910:30
Proteousheh10:30
RST38hVisa extension time.10:37
* RST38h hates this crap10:37
jaemwow... I really need to figure out what's going wrong with NX on my remote machine10:38
jaemI can't use the arrow keys, because they're remapped for some rreason10:39
jaembut the numpad arrow keys work10:39
jaemusually... unless they decide to type random letters10:39
jaem:S10:39
jaemoh, and to get the mouse out of the remote window, I have to move it really "forcefully", as if I have to smash out of the window (no pun intended)10:40
jaemgrr10:40
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* Stskeepz thinks everything is a lot faster with Xomap.10:50
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inzMeh, hildon-welcome didn't work in diablo too easily11:10
timelE61ihildon-welcome ??11:11
StskeepztimelE61i: new animated splash screen it seems like11:11
inzyup11:11
Stskeepzi expect it to be E.T reaching out with his magic finger.11:12
inzSts, that would be c00l ;)11:12
Stskeepznot entirely unlike http://www.learnaboutmovieposters.com/newsite/movies/1980s/1982/reg/et-finger.jpg11:12
Stskeepz(how does this not look like the current splash?)11:12
inzSts, (no how)11:13
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JaffaMorning, all11:14
Stskeepzmorning Jaffa11:14
inzWhoah, it was because I had defined a video with sound _and_ a soundfile11:15
inzI removed the soundfile, and now I gots animated hadns, yay!11:15
Stskeepzhehe11:15
Jaffainz: sounds... wasteful11:15
inzJaffa, it does, doesn't it ;)11:16
inzDiablo's libgstreamer-plugins-base0.10-dev didn't include .pc for gstreamer-interfaces and diablo doesn't have playbin2 -element, otherwise it seems to work just fine11:16
RST38hHehehehe: http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/24/windows-3-1-running-on-nokia-n95-is-both-awesome-and-depressing/11:20
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inzRST, the article title says it all...11:21
StskeepzPinch Media, whose analytics engine can be used to track the performance of participating iPhone apps, has found that merely 30 percent of people purchasing iPhone apps use them the next day, and free apps clock in at a miserable 20 percent11:22
* Stskeepz wonders what similar stats are for maemo11:22
RST38hMostlikely the same11:23
RST38hBTW this means that you are absolutely not supposed to distribute free app demos11:23
RST38hWon't get a single sale.11:23
sgh_hi11:24
Stskeepzmorning11:24
sgh_I have a problem when using esbox inside eclipse11:24
sgh_ scratchbox/tools/bin/misc_runner: /targets/links/scratchbox.config: No such file or directory11:25
herzitimelE61i: can you confirm MB#4141 ?11:25
sgh_i receive this message from inside eclipse11:26
sgh_can anybody tell me what is the cause of it?11:26
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zs1hi, how can i check if device is in offline mode? is there an example in c how to do that anywhere?11:35
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Stskeepzwb jeremiah_11:36
Stskeepzzs1: libconic maybe11:36
jeremiah_howdy!11:37
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Jaffadneary: ta for the referenda results11:44
dnearynp11:45
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dnearyClose one on the future rules - 2 votes of a difference11:45
dnearyPeople seem to be attached to the idea of having a barrier to entry at the same time - "anyone with a maemo.org account" got the smallest number of votes11:45
JaffaYeah11:46
dnearyI'd be interested to hear whether all the RRV fans strategically voted for STV as the lesser evil :)11:46
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jeremiah_No matter what you are voting on, people seem to want to protect "their" franchise, so they don't want more people able to vote, since it waters down their vote's impact.11:51
jeremiah_But an extremely low barrier to entry is wat has made linux so successful, so I say the more, the merrier!11:51
RST38hjeremiah: Are you sure about it?11:52
Stskeepzjeremiah_: on the other hand, imagine a horde of iphone users taking over the community..11:52
RST38hActually, about either of two things (low barrier of entry to linux development and that it was the factor to linux success)11:52
jeremiah_RST38h: See Clay Shirky.11:53
jeremiah_Stskeepz: I doubt that will happen though.11:53
jeremiah_iPhone users are not developers.11:53
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timelE61iherzi: um11:54
Stskeepsjeremiah_: was more referring to if some rogue flashmob decided to participate in the vote11:54
RST38hjeremiah: Wiki says it is some guy writing about internet. So?11:55
jeremiah_Stskeeps: Yeah, always a problem. But inherent in democratic systems.11:55
jeremiah_RST38h: He will answer your question about low barrier to entry and the success of linux.11:56
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RST38hjeremiah: He does not appear to provide any numeric data on these subjects11:56
Stskeepsjeremiah_: well, if we compare to democratic systems it isn't possible to let's say, take most of switzerland and move it to denmark, and use that increased vote to grab political power, due to the need for citizenship :P11:56
Stskeepswhich is why there should be some bar to voting11:57
RST38hjeremiah: As for motivational stuff, you probably know it yourself how useless it is11:57
herziinteresting example: 2700 students tried joining the FDP (liberal party in Germany) in Berlin in 200111:58
herzi^^ these things have to be avoided somehow11:59
herziGerman article about it: http://www.spiegel.de/unispiegel/studium/0,1518,150985,00.html11:59
t_s_ohrmf, it seems more and more that the choice of cpu is more about what software it can run then what abilities it has...11:59
RST38hherzi: is there anything wrong about it?12:00
herziRST38h: if people try taking over the power and throwing out old members of the party, there is...12:00
RST38hherzi: Sounds like a good idea12:01
t_s_osome level of fresh blood is always good in politics. but there can always be to much of something...12:02
RST38hThat's why a sane organization will have merit/experience based governance12:02
t_s_othen the question becomes, how to count said merit/experience...12:03
X-FadeHmm Fremantle will have a video animated logo during boot. Fancy ;)12:03
X-FadeStskeeps: Time to backport hildon-welcome ;)12:04
t_s_oyay, more battery draining bling...12:04
RST38hX-Fade: what kind of video?12:04
X-FadeRST38h: Probably the Nokia hands?12:05
StskeepsX-Fade: yeah, inz did it earlier12:05
StskeepsRST38h: no video, just code12:05
RST38hX-Fade: that would be the same as phones12:05
RST38hah12:05
Stskeepsi hoped for a clip from E.T :P12:05
X-FadeYeah, but now it is a static image.12:05
* RST38h does not see much difference12:05
X-FadeAnd that video can always be replaced of course ;)12:06
RST38hWondering what they will do about av player though12:06
Stskeepshttp://googlemapsbikethere.org/wp-content/uploads/2008/04/et_poster.jpg12:06
jeremiah_X-Fade: In trying to build the latest linitan on garage.maemo.org, I need to install a bunch of packages.12:07
jeremiah_X-Fade: I don't want to do this without talking to you about it.12:07
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jeremiah_X-Fade: Most of the stuff is used to satisfy a Docbook -> SGML dependency.12:08
X-Fadejeremiah_: Can't you build it without docs?12:08
jeremiah_X-Fade: Tried a little bit, it may be possible.12:09
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Stskeepstekojo: curious, when you say platforms do you mean HW platforms or SW platforms? (as in, let's say if a technical question on kernel level or nokia HW drivers?)12:15
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Stskeeps(that part-time person)12:16
jeremiah_X-Fade: No, I don't it is possible without the SGML tools.12:17
X-Fadejeremiah_: Crappy package then :)12:17
jeremiah_Crappy and well documented. :)12:18
Stskeepswell documented open source? i don't believe it12:18
X-Fadejeremiah_: But go ahead and install the deps.12:18
Stskeeps:P12:18
jeremiah_I can use the current lintian instead, we are going to hack on it anyway.12:18
X-Fadejeremiah_: lintian is already installed?12:19
jeremiah_So I am not going to install ten thousand deps.12:19
jeremiah_Yep12:19
jeremiah_Just an older version of lintian is installed.12:19
jeremiah_But totally usable.12:19
jeremiah_So that's what I'll use.12:19
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tekojoStskeeps: software, I have no clue on hardware12:37
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tekojoStskeeps: but we can always try to find out12:38
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timelyxjeremiah_: re 4138 the text reads like it was written by a finn12:39
timelyx(lack of articles)12:39
timelyx(also, lack of capitalization of proper nouns)12:39
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timelyxgah12:40
timelyxthat file would make Clippy cry12:40
* timelyx frowns12:42
timelyxit looks like at least every second line in that file has an error, it's probably closer to 80% of all lines need work12:42
timelyxthere are various other gems "non compatible"12:43
timelyx"The crucial line here is to notice"12:43
timelyxalso, http://www.angryflower.com/12:43
timelyx(abuse of it's)12:44
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* timelyx wonders where andre__ is12:48
* sp3000 was under the impression that every second was a finglism12:49
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* timelyx ponders12:50
timelyxit's quite likely i've been poisoned12:50
timelyxevery other would be the more normal phrase12:50
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timelyxyeah, i've been poisoned12:50
timelyxdoes Nokia pay for rehab?12:51
timelyxor Finland?12:51
timelyxi'm entitled to Finnish services, can i get outpatient ? :)12:51
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* timelyx frowns12:53
timelyxwhy the heck would someone complain about PAPER settings for an n800?12:53
timelyxdid they find the top secret <PRINT> key?12:53
timelyxoh wow12:53
* timelyx didn't know that you could buy an n800 in .au12:54
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timelyxsp3000: so, i'm starving12:55
timelyxwhere is your tummy? :)12:55
jeremiah_timelyx: heh12:55
* Stskeeps ponders idly if he just got rooted by a pdf hack12:56
timelyxjeremiah_: if you have MS Word, please fix that document until you can't see green squiglies12:56
timelyx(make sure you start by seeing them, if you don't, you didn't pay enough)12:56
jeremiah_timelyx: Sorry, no Microsoft software available.12:56
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timelyxum... expense it :)12:57
timelyxbut seriously...12:57
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jeremiah_But I will edit and fix anyway.12:57
timelyxi'm not sure the state of grammar checking in open office12:57
timelyxi think a baseline is that you do a diff12:57
timelyx-y12:57
timelyxif you see more than 1 line in a row where the compare marker is "unchanged"12:57
timelyxyou haven't fixed everything :)12:58
jeremiah_timelyx: My dad taught English, so my grammer checking is pretty good. :P12:58
timelyxs/grammer/grammar/12:58
jeremiah_heh12:58
timelE61ithanks btw12:58
jeremiah_I speak pretty.12:58
timelE61iBetter you than me - for that error12:58
jeremiah_wha? Is timelyx not timelE61i?12:59
timelE61ium..12:59
* timelE61i is mobile12:59
* timelE61i is terse12:59
* timelE61i is walking to lunch12:59
Stskeepsdon't bump into the cantina lady while chatting and walking, they get rather irritated :P12:59
* jeremiah_ Is waving to timelE61i 12:59
jeremiah_Going to get lunch!13:00
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timelE61isp3000: fwiw, they fixed my laptop13:01
andre__timelyx, hmm?13:02
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timelE61ibugs need importing13:03
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KhertanHello !13:08
* Khertan is lost ... can't work ... gmail down ...13:08
Stskeepsbeer time? :P13:09
aquatixKhertan: spend your time setting up a mailserver of your own? :)13:11
timelE61igood time to walk to work13:12
timelE61iAnd it means you should have configured offline13:12
aquatixyep :)13:13
* aquatix would be less productive without his VPS, but would still be able to get stuff done13:13
aquatixto a degree13:13
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sp3000timelE61i: aw, that sucks :)13:18
sp3000lunch sounds good13:18
timelE61ik13:18
* timelE61i just spoke w/ mail qa13:19
timelE61iactually, you're xMins away?13:19
Khertanaquatix: i use the backup solution ;)13:19
Khertangmail is just concataining other imap account :)13:19
Khertanbut it is a real pain ... over 15 account to consult13:20
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aquatixfun13:21
aquatixi do the same with my own mail server13:21
aquatixso would have similar issues13:21
aquatixKhertan: btw, imap seems to work13:21
aquatixwith my gmail account13:21
timelE61ioh really?13:22
aquatixseems so13:23
Stskeepshm, my gmail works odd too13:23
aquatixyep13:23
aquatiximap for my gmail works13:23
aquatixwhile the website gives an error13:24
t_s_onow this is interesting: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS8848023892.html13:24
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aquatixt_s_o: *wants*13:27
Khertanaquatix: not mine13:28
aquatixmeh13:28
Khertanimap not working here on the domain account13:28
aquatixah13:28
Khertanbut work on my personnal one13:28
* aquatix has a regular one13:28
aquatixtoo bad ;(13:29
aquatix* :(13:29
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Stskeepsheh, danish tech newspaper "gmail and google apps in global breakdown. Danish Company Not Panicking Yet."13:42
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Khertanhéhé13:46
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Khertanfor french : http://www.pcinpact.com/actu/news/49302-gmail-inaccessible-google-courriers-electroniques.htm?vc=113:47
Khertanhttp://www.20minutes.fr/article/304480/High-Tech-Gmail-la-messagerie-de-Google-est-en-panne.php13:47
Khertanhttp://www.lejdd.fr/cmc/scanner/media/200909/google-des-soucis-sur-gmail_189870.html?popup13:47
aquatixStskeeps: :)13:47
aquatixKhertan: spam :P13:47
Khertan502 server error :13:48
Khertan502 Service Temporarily Overloaded :Server congestion; too many connections; high traffic. Keep trying until the page loads.13:48
Khertan:)13:48
Khertanyep13:48
Khertanbut with a message retry in 30 seconds it ll not be better :)13:48
Khertanfunny gmail for s40 work13:49
Khertans13:49
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aquatixjust keep your refresh buttons pressed ;)13:50
Khertanyep :)13:50
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RST38h"For example, a fighter equipped with an active electronically scanned array radar could cross an enemy radar beam and instantly transmit computer viruses into its processor. Such a capability still remains a distant goal, but is rapidly gaining interest." (C) BAE Systems VP\14:00
aquatixheh14:00
glasshaha14:01
aquatixthat's interesting14:01
RST38hSomebody is gonna be fired from BAE in a year or two...14:01
glassa good story to get lots of r&d money from some idiots for sure14:01
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RST38hglass: I wonder what happens when the customer comes knocking though...14:01
aquatixRST38h: s/knocking/throwing?14:01
glassRST38h: "sorry, as we said it was experimental, give 20 mil more"14:01
aquatixor firing :)14:01
glassRST38h: then you can buy your own aa guns14:02
RST38hheheh14:02
glass"this introduces hardware bugs into their cpu's"14:02
aquatixbut even if they want to build such a thing, you would have to know exactly how the enemy's computer and machinery works14:02
aquatixglass: hehehe14:02
glassaquatix: didn'y you see independence day?-D14:02
aquatixglass: yep :)14:03
aquatixmy inner geek crinched a bit at that scene14:03
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aquatixhell, they even had a hardware interface14:03
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aquatixotoh, they had a ship for ages to study14:03
RST38haquatix: see, there is another problem here14:04
glassaquatix: yeah.. maybe the explanation was that ALL of humans computers are actually built on that alien tech haha14:04
aquatixglass: ha :)14:04
* aquatix doesn't quite remember what medium they used to transfer the virus14:04
aquatixsome disk i think14:05
RST38haquatix: it is well known how active radar works14:05
aquatixyep14:05
RST38haquatix: and the whole sensing part is analogue, it has nothing to do with computing14:05
aquatixindeed14:05
aquatixhell, most of them work with plain video14:05
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RST38hNot video of course14:05
lardmanmorning chaps14:05
RST38hThe output part of a radar looks more like a huge plumbing job, as UHF waves are toured through pipes14:07
RST38hrouted14:07
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aquatixah right14:08
lardmanX-Fade: ping14:12
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X-Fadelardman: pong.14:15
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lardmanI was just going to point out a curious heading on the Garage pages, but I suppose I should sumbit a bug about it actually14:16
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lcuk_homelesscould someone do a driveby of my house and see if its burning down?14:20
lardmanany reason it should be?14:20
lcuk_homelesscant ping it14:21
lcuk_homelessnor vnc into it14:21
KhertanInstructions for resetting your password have been emailed ... hum14:21
Stskeepslcuk_homeless: you're hosting gmail? :P14:21
* Khertan turn around ... turn around the14:21
aquatixlcuk_homeless: oops14:21
Khertan;)14:21
lcuk_homelesslol Stskeeps i did think there was a curious similarity14:21
lcuk_homelesskhertan, if you use gmail you wont get your new email14:22
Khertanyep14:22
Khertani know14:22
Khertanthis was to retrieve the password of an imap account14:22
lardmananyone got Tear installed? Where does libidn11 come from?14:22
RST38hlcuk: I think your home computer has been listed as the backup MX server for gmail.com ...14:22
Khertanwhich is retrieved automatically by gmail when he work14:22
Khertans/he/it14:23
Khertans/work/works14:23
Khertanbut... the password have just been sent to gmail14:23
Khertanno luck14:23
lcuk_homelesswell, you could say your password is safe14:23
Khertanyep14:23
lcuk_homelessfrom what i read imap access to g accounts is fine14:23
lcuk_homelessits the html interface thats goosed14:23
Khertannot on mine14:23
KhertanHO !14:24
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Khertani got html refresh14:24
Khertanand html works14:24
lcuk_homelessKhertan: does pygtkeditor run in windows14:24
aquatixheh14:24
aquatixyep, gmail works again here14:25
lardman~lart the bloody browser for trying to download .debs as txt14:26
* infobot whacks the bloody browser with the cluebat for trying to download .debs as txt14:26
Khertanlcuk_homeless with some modifications which is in the version 3.014:26
Khertanpygtk / python and gtk installed ... yes14:26
aquatixlardman: that's the bloody server saying it's plaintext14:26
lcuk_homelesslardman, thats because it thinks you have an altair and you need to manually flip the switches14:26
lardmanhmm, I have a feeling it's the non-mozilla based browser being crap too though14:27
lcuk_homelessif it gave them as binary you wouldnt know to print it out14:27
lardmanI wonder how I can go back to the default browser, which works14:27
lardmanaargh, and file manager keeping going to sleep is annoying too14:27
lardmanjust a bad day all things told14:28
lcuk_homelesswhich os14:28
lardmandiablo, latest14:28
lcuk_homelessdont worry, just switch off and sod off half way round the world!14:28
lcuk_homelessthe file manager does not sleep (i noticed the behaviour last night) it scans subfolders14:28
lardmanwell yeah, I'll do that soon enough :p14:28
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* lardman feels like a user14:32
lardmanperhaps everyone should be made to rush through installing their software, to feel like a user does14:32
lcuk_homelessthat file manager surprised me last night with its little things. i was flicking between file manager and console moving files around (entirely on device) and the file manager never mis-stepped .  the only problem i had with it was clicking the cursed tree view nodes.  the lag was intolerable14:32
lardmanwell it's sorted itself out now, not gone back to sleep14:32
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lardmanbut I had to click on a .deb in the browser, stop the binary being displayed, copy and paste into the terminal to use wget to get the file, click on file and see if it would install14:33
lardmananyway, can't be arsed14:33
lcuk_homelessba-jesus14:33
lcuk_homelesswhy isnt it in extras :P14:33
lardmanyeah :)14:33
lardmanand how do I get rid!?14:33
lcuk_homelessrid of what? the deb?14:34
lcuk_homelesscall in the a-team, jeremiah_ and qwerty and Stskeeps and johnx (i wont mention which is murdock)14:34
lardmanno the webkit-eal stuff14:34
lardmanthere;s supposed to be a setting somewhere to disable it....14:35
lcuk_homelessi dunno14:35
lcuk_homelessi looked at webkit, its not quite what i was expecting14:35
lardmanah! Praise the Lord, I found it; an application called webkit settings14:35
lardmanwell it runs nice and fast, but not being able to download is a real pita14:36
lcuk_homelessyeah, its a rendering engine, to make a full app it needs more14:36
lardmanI wanted to try Tear, but can't install it (at least not easily)14:36
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lardmanthe one I have installed is supposed to work with the built-in browser, and it does, but has issues14:36
lcuk_homelessyeah14:39
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lcuk_mehrecorded messages in phone calls suck15:06
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lemmyslendercan anyone tell me how to setup a .item for bootmenu for booting to maemo on n800 internal card p2?15:21
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Stskeepssure, sec15:21
lemmyslenderthanks15:22
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dnearyX-Fade: Hi there15:23
dnearyX-Fade: Do you have the transcript of last week's design meeting, by any chance?15:23
X-Fadehi15:23
X-FadeHmm I haven't uploaded it yet, it seems.15:23
X-FadeI have it.15:23
X-FadeI'll upload it.15:24
Stskeepslemmyslender: http://rafb.net/p/cLiyeh61.html15:24
Stskeepsand then refresh_bootmenu.d after putting that item in /etc/bootmenu.d15:24
lemmyslenderok, I was close.  screwed it up last night, but was able to easily reflash and get back up and running.15:28
lemmyslenderwhere is refresh_bootmenu.d located?  I assume run from root?15:28
X-Fadedneary: They are available now.15:29
dnearyFound it in XChat logs15:30
Stskeepslemmyslender: yeah15:30
X-Fadedneary: Needed to upload them anyway ;)15:30
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wazd_n800hola world15:33
Stskeepshola15:33
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wazd_n800We have superb weather today)15:33
Stskeepswazd_n800: seems like fremantle will have animated start screen ;p15:34
lemmyslenderStskeeps:  where do I run it from -- location?15:34
Stskeepslemmyslender: just in a root shell. did you install the bootmenu pointed to from mer instructions?15:34
wazd_n800Stskeeps, hmm?)15:34
Stskeepswazd_n800: as in playing a video when starting. where the Nokia Hands are normally15:35
jaskaeww15:35
lemmyslenderinstalled last night, got booted into Mer (with flash available) eventually booted into flash to redo bootmenu to get sd boot back15:35
wazd_n800Stskeeps, hmmm) xD15:36
lemmyslenderI'll try re-installing bootmenu15:36
lemmyslendernevermind, got it.15:36
Stskeepsk15:36
wazd_n800Stskeeps, so Mer would have it too?)15:37
Stskeepswazd_n800: hehe, possibly15:37
Stskeepsnot sure why it's good, but if you can come up with something creative :I)15:37
X-FadeStskeeps: Now you can have that shark swimming at you ;)15:37
wazd_n800and sinking nokian tire))15:38
X-Fadewazd_n800: Would be pretty funny ;)15:38
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X-FadeAny Blender artists here? :)15:39
StskeepsX-Fade: i hate the concept of animated start screen from CPU perspective, but from coolness perspective.. :>15:39
jaskawaste of time, cpu and storage15:39
lemmyslenderStskeeps:  Thanks, worked wonderfully.  I now have the ability to boot to Mer (external) and Maemo (internal).15:39
X-FadeStskeeps: Yeah, but bling sells ;)15:39
wazd_n800jaska, use console everywhere then)15:40
RST38hmoo wazd15:40
RST38hhow are things?15:40
wazd_n800X-Fade, I'm learning 3ds now15:40
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X-Fadewazd_n800: Well, sounds like you got yourself a project..15:40
lemmyslenderDoes the power button work in Mer 0.8?15:41
wazd_n800RST38h, heya, heading home from the country)15:41
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wazd_n800RST38h, my mom was impressed with Ti emu)15:41
Stskeepslemmyslender: apt-get update; apt-get install powerlaunch; reboot15:41
lemmyslenderahh, ok will try that later.15:41
RST38hwazd: heh =)15:41
wazd_n800X-Fade, not sure I can do something I'd be proud of))15:42
RST38hTI83+ still proves to be elusive though15:42
RST38hhangs "Defragmenting memory..."15:42
wazd_n800RST38h, she's an engineer and a teacher :)15:42
* Khertan really need an anti virus for his windows ...15:43
Stskeepslemmyslender: feel free to document it on wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Documentation as a thanks for getting helped :)15:44
Stskeeps(the dual boot stuff)15:44
aquatixKhertan: free.avg.com15:44
wazd_n800Stskeeps, I'm studing 3ds cause I have tons of concepts to render but all my "friends" are lazy bastards15:44
RST38hwazd: Need a real one? =)15:45
wazd_n800RST38h, yep :D15:45
RST38hack15:46
Khertanaquatix: i mean a real antivirus15:46
wazd_n800RST38h, can't find any fricking modeller to help in 2 years15:46
aquatixKhertan: ah, you mean a complete whipe and install of a *nix15:46
Khertannot something that just popup a barbershop sscrolling15:46
Khertanaquatix: in fact ... i just recover my windows wmware image due to a virus15:47
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Khertanand i lost 3 hours of work15:47
Khertani use winxp over a vm :)15:47
aquatixah15:48
wazd_n800is maemo's clock app opensourced?15:48
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wazd_n800it has very good image panning example15:48
aquatixthe applet?15:49
wazd_n800I thought to use it in metromap15:49
wazd_n800aquatix, no, settings and alarms15:49
aquatixah wait, the app15:49
aquatixyeah15:49
wazd_n800aquatix, the map15:49
aquatixindeed15:49
aquatixfigured :)15:49
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aquatixdunno15:50
aquatixdoesn't it use the same map widget as the agps app?15:50
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wazd_n800guys, what should I kill to force rescan my media with builtin player?15:51
wazd_n800aquatix, Dunno15:51
Jaffawazd_n800: why do you need to force a recscan?15:51
aquatixhm, that's something i want to know too15:51
aquatixit looks like it has a broken index on some music here15:51
aquatixlike, no tags15:51
aquatixand it doesn't help when moving the files and such15:52
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Stskeepswazd: the actual world map is CC SA 3.0 :P15:52
wazd_n800Jaffa, well, cause it don't want to scan it )15:52
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* Stskeeps ponders on the application launcher that is pannable sideways, and is just a big pannablearea widget..15:52
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wazd_n800Jaffa, I've moved my media to another card and now it shows "no media"15:53
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aquatixwazd_n800: tried restarting the daemon from terminal?15:54
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wazd_n800aquatix, I've asked for it))15:54
wazd_n800aquatix, how can I do it?)15:54
aquatixah15:54
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aquatixwell, as root type "/etc/init.d/metalayer-crawler015:55
aquatixi think that's the one15:55
aquatixand without the quotes, erm quote :)15:55
aquatixhm, or is it mediaplayer-daemon :/15:56
* aquatix even has a multimediad :)15:56
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aquatixlol15:57
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aquatixwb wazd_n800 :)15:57
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wazd_n800aquatix, hildon-desktop hanged)15:58
aquatix:(15:58
Stskeepsmetalayer-crawler should die15:58
aquatixStskeeps: but that's the daemon refreshing mediaplayer's db right?15:59
Stskeepsyes, but it is also evil :P15:59
aquatixi knows15:59
* aquatix gets some coffee16:00
wazd_n800why the hell player doesn't have refresh option)16:00
aquatixyeah16:00
aquatixwell, because it should work automagically16:00
Stskeepswazd_n800: tracker in fremantle looks a lot saner, thank god16:00
* aquatix finds canola works best16:00
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aquatixanyways, bbl16:00
X-FadeHi16:01
X-FadeHmmz wrong one ;)16:01
wazd_n800canola is heavy. I don't need a plane to go to the grocery)16:03
aquatixheh16:03
aquatixtrue16:03
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aquatixi rather like the default mediaplayer for music16:04
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wazd_n800I don't listen to lastfm, podcasts and other stuff so builtin mp is just fine)16:05
wazd_n800k, my trainstop, bbl)16:07
StskeepsKhertan: http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2710116:09
JaffaAnyone had any issues with the Fn key not working at all (in Maemo)?16:11
JaffaI suspect it might be a hardware problem16:11
StskeepsJaffa: was someone in here yesterday talking of a similar problem16:11
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JaffaStskeeps: interesting.16:12
Stskeepsbest way to figure out if it's HW or SW is to see if xev receives a proper keycode and 2) if setxkbmap -print shows nokiarx44 as modl16:12
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JaffaYup. Had planned on playing with the approach Mer's used to to see if that'd coax it back into life16:13
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Stskeepsit kinda uses same approach as maemo (now) :P16:15
JaffaYeah, but I wonder if the gconf(?) value which makes it work got unset16:15
timsamoffJaffa: Re: Fn key... When I drop my N810 (no, not me!), all touchscreen and keyboard opps go away until I shutdown and let it sit for a minute. Have you tried something as simple as this?16:15
StskeepsJaffa: verify lshal | grep xkb.model says nokiarx44 too16:16
Jaffatimsamoff: I rebooted it since seeing the problem over the weekend; but haven't let it sit quietly and off16:17
JaffaStskeeps: ta. It's at home unloved today. Oh, but I can prolly ssh in to it16:17
JaffaStskeeps: No. It doesn't. Interesting.16:18
StskeepsJaffa: hmm. what does it say then?16:18
timsamoffJaffa: Just rebotting didn't work for me.16:18
* Stskeeps has three things to do today when home: 1) test if wifi finally works on 770 cos nm-applet is rebuilt 2) eat dinner 3) curl up in a fetal position and shake off this beginning flu16:18
JaffaStskeeps: nothing returned from that grep16:19
StskeepsJaffa: hmm.16:19
Jaffatimsamoff: ta - I'll try that16:19
Stskeepshow about grep "Internal keyboard"16:19
timsamoffJaffa: And, I definitely "rebotted." :p16:19
Stskeepsooh.16:19
JaffaGot 3 lines for grep -i keyboard, and none of them contains a Nokia/RX-44 or similar reference16:20
StskeepsJaffa: sounds like HAL not detecting it then16:20
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Macerhm16:26
Macerinstalled kubuntu on my old dual p316:26
Macerand wow does it run like shit16:27
RST38hWell, it should fly once you get rid of KDE16:28
Macerhaha16:28
Maceri dunno. i don't think gnome would do any better16:28
Macerthen again.. i have all the effects turned on .. with its zippy nvidia 550016:29
RST38hCzech prime minister complains that Eu is turning into USSR =)16:29
Macersounds like the US16:29
Macer:)16:29
* RST38h always said that US had to occupy .CZ rather than Afghanistan16:29
* timsamoff doesn't think the US should occupy anyone. Arg.16:30
RST38hBetter climate, harmless people, safer place16:30
Maceri always say we shouldn't occupy anywhere :) but that's just me16:30
Macerhaha16:30
RST38htimsamoff: Yes, but if *not* occupying is not an option, what would you prefer?16:30
MacerRST38h: ... not enough oil ;)16:30
RST38hMacer: but there is beer!16:30
jeremiah_beer?16:31
Macercan't run cars off beer16:31
RST38hprobably can, after turning it into biodiesel16:31
timsamoffme can occupy some beer, yes.16:31
* timsamoff can't type, though.16:31
MacerRST38h: cheaper to just spend fake money on a war in iraq16:31
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RST38hMacer: Not really16:31
Macerethanol was supposed ot be a good thing.. but that doesn't seem to work unless you have a modified engine16:32
Macerplus.. you get less miles so the cost is the same if not higher16:32
RST38hA diesel engine will run on just about anything16:32
timsamoffMacer: Most cars post-2007 can use E85.16:33
Macertimsamoff: that's not a fair share of cars on the road16:33
RST38hOf course, the one in your Jetta probably won't but making somethign suitable is not THAT difficult16:33
timsamoffMacer: True, but... It's a start. Not as good as electric, though.16:33
RST38hMacer: Do google for diesel car mileage figures ;)16:33
MacerRST38h: difficult enough where i would rather just go to the pump and pay the saudis some money16:33
RST38hforget ethanol16:33
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Macercan't.. we have corn here16:34
Macerlots of it :)16:34
timsamoffWe wanted to buy a Turbo Diesel Beetle, but couldn't afford it.16:34
RST38hMacer: next time you visit gas station, look carefully and you will usually find a diesel pump16:34
wazdhome sweet home)16:34
MacerRST38h: yes.. there is. but diesel is just as high as gasoline per mile16:34
RST38hwazd: As in "finally"? =)16:34
RST38hMacer: Right now yes16:34
udovdhhello16:34
wazdRST38h: yep)16:34
Macerdiesel burns slower and lasts longer but it also has a slightly higher price16:35
aquatixhey wazd :)16:35
RST38hMacer: It will go down in a few months though16:35
udovdhwhat voip-like or  other phone apps can you recommend for use on n810?16:35
RST38hMacer: Historically, diesel cost about as much as the cheapest unleaded16:35
RST38hMacer: that is in US16:35
udovdhit should enable at least two way communication with a (non)standard protocol16:35
MacerRST38h: not low enough where i would give up my car and find a diesel one16:35
udovdhencryption is a plus16:35
RST38hudovdh: Skype16:35
timsamoffRST38h: Currently, it costs more than Supreme Unleaded.16:35
aquatixdiesel is quite a bit cheaper here16:36
timsamoff...but provides better mileage.16:36
RST38htimsamoff: I suspect it will go down with recession16:36
udovdhRST38h, skype is being backdoored16:36
RST38hit is, yes16:36
udovdhRST38h, tehrefor my question to find alternatives16:36
MacerRST38h: so will gasoline16:36
udovdhwe have pgpfone16:36
aquatixbut taxes on diesel cars are higher16:36
RST38hbut are you going to say anything that you care about?16:36
udovdhbut I found no Linux source for that one16:36
Macergasoline is $1.70 here for cheaper stuff.. and I'm in chicago which usually has a higher price because demand is higher16:36
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udovdhRST38h, fuel prices won't go any lower.16:36
udovdhcrude is at the bottom or very close16:37
Khertan1A good electric for french constructor is something with 150km of autonomy16:37
udovdhand taxes will only rise16:37
udovdhespecially in the USA16:37
timsamoffChicago and Kansas City (where I am) are about the same.16:37
Khertan1and 8 hour to recharge it16:37
udovdhbecause the government is bankrupt16:37
udovdhand needs money16:37
* aquatix pays about 1.19 EUR/liter for E95 gasoline here; diesel is about .9816:37
Khertan1specially for peugeot and renault ...16:37
Macerhaha16:37
timsamoffI'll be in San Francisco Thursday and gas is still pretty high there.16:37
Khertan1and with the price of the car ... it cheaper to buy a diesel powered car16:37
udovdhI can get diesel for 93 eurocents at a cheap unmanned tank16:37
udovdhdiesel rules16:37
Khertan1pfff16:38
Macertimsamoff: let's see what wikipedia has to say abou thet differences between KC and Chicago16:38
udovdhI am in the netherlands of course16:38
Khertan1fuel rules !16:38
RST38h$.55 for a litre of AI92 here16:38
udovdhone of the most taxed countries16:38
udovdhRST38h, then you can't complain16:38
Khertan1udovdh ... not possible16:38
udovdhat all16:38
udovdhudovdh, it is\16:38
Khertan1france is worst16:38
aquatixah wait, diesel is 0.909 EUR/liter at `my' tank16:38
RST38hudovdh: Ah but we are having an academic discussion whether diesel is better/cheaper :)16:38
aquatixudovdh: Tinq?16:38
udovdhone of the... (top 5?)16:38
udovdhaquatix, tinq yes16:38
aquatixheh, same here16:39
udovdhbut a non-tinq is nearby within 2 cents of that price16:39
aquatixbut i think i've about the cheapest in quite a bit area16:39
udovdhwould like to get 1000L or so and store it for later16:39
udovdhbut got no room16:39
aquatixheh16:39
udovdhthat would be the wise thing to do16:39
udovdhprices will go up16:39
udovdhand quickly if the ydo16:39
RST38hMacer: BTW, corn oil will most likely make good diesel fuel =)16:39
timsamoffMacer: http://www.kcgasprices.com/ Pretty cheap right now.16:39
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aquatixwell, for that project you can even come over to this tank and pay only 0.909EUR/l :)16:40
udovdhbio-diesel is (raw plant oil!) is expensive over here16:40
aquatixand a stupid idea anyway16:40
MacerRST38h: if it could bre made quicker and more efficient than it is16:40
aquatixlike we don't need the resources for food16:40
udovdhofficial price is 0.999/L16:40
udovdh10 cents off or so at tinq?16:40
jeremiah_I think gas, diesel prices will go up, but will not go up as much as one expects.16:41
udovdhhavent looked since the lates drop16:41
Macerusing 1,000,000 gal of normal diesel to produce 1,000,010 gal of corn diesel :)16:41
Macerthat math makes it worthless16:41
jeremiah_This recession is pretty bad in the US.16:41
udovdhjeremiah_, in two years crude will be over 70, close to 100 perhaps16:41
aquatixudovdh: http://tinq.nl/index.php?section=vestigingitem&id=204 :)16:41
jeremiah_And the US uses a _lot_of gas.16:41
timsamoffjeremiah_: Tell me about it.16:41
jeremiah_udovdh: Don't be so sure. :)16:41
udovdhindeed16:41
udovdhjeremiah_, why not?16:41
RST38hmacer: http://biodieselfromcorn.com/biodiesel-conversion/homemade-ethanol-still-capable-of-making-100-gallons-of-ethanol-daily-video/ hehehe16:41
Khertan1here diesel is around 1,120 Euro for 1 liter16:41
jeremiah_Very hard to predict the price of oil.16:41
udovdhcrisis will pass, in short or long time16:41
udovdheconomy will reover16:41
aquatixudovdh: but Tinq tanks vary in price a bit16:42
Macerlol16:42
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udovdhoil wells are on the way out16:42
Khertan1jeremiah_: not at all ... it s always grow up16:42
RST38hudovdh: Before or after everybody starves? =)16:42
udovdhso no new investments in the crisis16:42
Maceri think you can't have an "ethanol" still in your house legally can you?16:42
RST38hMacer: No idea16:42
Macerethanol is moonshine liquor16:42
udovdhmeans that demand will be met with small production16:42
Macer:)16:42
jeremiah_keesj: Nope, sometimes it goes down. :)16:42
Maceryou would be arrested or fined ... forget which one16:42
jeremiah_udovdh: No, I doubt that.16:42
timsamoffMacer: I got to try moonshine in North Carolina not too long ago.16:42
timsamoffFun times.16:42
jeremiah_Try to get OPEC to rein in production!16:42
Macertimsamoff: well. that's all ethanol is16:43
jeremiah_Or Russia, or Venezuela!16:43
udovdhjeremiah_, wells are emptying. production was already going down16:43
Macerit's just extremely high grade liquor16:43
Macerhaha16:43
udovdhnow we have the crisis16:43
timsamoff;)16:43
RST38hjeremiah: INVADE! INVADE!16:43
aquatixjeremiah_: already doing that i thought?16:43
udovdhno new investments16:43
* RST38h hides16:43
udovdhno new wells16:43
udovdhno new sources16:43
jeremiah_udovdh: Again, no. There  is plenty of oil outh there.16:43
udovdhthen demand rises16:43
udovdhjeremiah_, yes there may be oil16:43
udovdhbut why is there the peak oil story?16:43
Macerudovdh: it won't be the end of the world.. we already have alternatives.. and will need to use them16:43
udovdhis there really massive oil in alaska?16:44
udovdhMacer, I am not preaching an end16:44
RST38hudovdh: There is but it is hard to mine16:44
jeremiah_udovdh: There is some, hard (expensive) to get at16:44
udovdhjust a possibility16:44
Macerudovdh: most people think it will be though16:44
udovdhwe need something for the next 100 years or so16:44
Macerwe know how to make things that work to make cars go that doesn't require millions of years of biomatter degeneration16:44
udovdhI'll get me a 2 or 3 liter car16:44
jeremiah_There is a lot of Natural Gas, perhaps a third of the world's reserves under the artic though.16:44
Macer:)16:44
udovdhMacer, oil might be abiotic16:44
Macerour cars run off dinosaurs and trees16:45
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timsamoffMacer: The US just needs more.better public transit.16:45
udovdhbut no other phone-like apps for linix?16:45
udovdhlinux?16:45
Macergizmo and skype are the only ones i know of16:45
Maceri use skype16:45
RST38htimsamoff: which will also make gadget revolution possible!16:46
RST38htimsamoff: lots of time on a train/bus instead of steering16:46
Maceri don't even have a normal phone other than my cell.. i just pay $50/yr for skype at the house and have cordless skype phones :)16:46
Macerit's great other than having to dial 001areacodenumber16:46
Macerbut i can deal with that to avoid paying 50/month16:46
aquatixudovdh: ekiga?16:46
timsamoffRST38h: Exactly.16:46
udovdhaquatix,  runs on n810? ok.. does encryption?16:47
jeremiah_Yeah, in Japan they use their phones a lot more because they use so much public transportation.16:47
RST38htimsamoff: it is not going to be possible with suburbia though16:47
aquatixerm, not on the n810 i think16:47
Macerand i don't think oil is abiotic16:47
jeremiah_Yeah, America is predicated on having a car.16:47
aquatixudovdh: it does standard SIP stuff, like gizmo does too16:47
udovdhneed something lightweight, but sturdy enough16:47
RST38htimsamoff: if you ever used any of a suburban buses, you know what I mean16:47
udovdhpossibly standards compliant in  some way or the other16:47
RST38htimsamoff: as in "2 hours to get to a point 3 miles away"16:48
Stskeepshmm, curious fact: you don't need to go through Nokia repos to install skype for N8x016:48
Macermaybe to humanity :)16:48
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timsamoffRST38h: I know... Took me 2.5 hours to get somewhere in suburbia a few years back -- which would have been a 20 min. drive!16:48
Macerah well.. ttyl.. going to take a nap16:48
aquatixMacer: sleep well :)16:48
RST38htimsamoff: I sometimes just WALKED.16:48
aquatixRST38h: whoa :P16:48
RST38htimsamoff: Which also feels weird because there are so few sidewalks16:48
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udovdhRST38h, obama can make more of them16:49
udovdhgood for the economy and the environment16:49
udovdhclose half of the bases on foreign soil16:50
udovdhand save the country16:50
RST38hudovdh: it is a fundamental routing problem. Obama can't solve topological problems16:50
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udovdhno, USA is small. think big!16:50
udovdhso start with simple things like sidewalks16:50
udovdhdenser building of villages16:50
udovdhso walking makes sense16:50
udovdhpublic transportation then16:50
udovdhetc16:51
RST38hudovdh: they are already uncomfortable dense due to past real estate bubble16:51
udovdhas in the dutch 'rijtjeshuis'?16:51
RST38hudovdh: dunno what it is16:51
udovdhi.e.: houses built directly to their neighbors16:51
sp3000your mom is uncomfortably dense16:51
udovdhwithout any room in between?16:51
sp3000oh, wait, this isn't the your mom channel16:51
RST38hudovdh: yes basically, with 1-2m spaces between blind walls16:51
udovdhwith at least one non-0ground floor?16:52
udovdhRST38h, close, but in the netherlands stuff is closer16:52
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udovdhin the `normal` areas16:52
RST38hudovdhL yes, I understand16:52
udovdhso it is not as bad, as I udnerstand fro RST38h, as in a small village in australia16:52
udovdhwhere everyoen has a few acres16:52
udovdhand a hosue on one ground floor16:52
udovdhwhich wastes space16:53
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udovdhand creates way too much distance between houses to make walking to a supermarket praktical16:53
RST38hudovdh: this will be too small for most US homeowners16:54
udovdhthey might need to adapt...16:54
udovdhto make life sustainable16:54
RST38hudovdh: go tell that to everybody :)16:54
udovdheither financially\16:54
udovdhor environmentally16:54
udovdhor both?16:54
udovdhit takes time RST38h16:54
udovdhit won't chnage quickly16:55
udovdhbut a gradual change in the direction I paint16:55
udovdhcould solve a few issues partly16:55
RST38hmostly takes misery :)16:55
udovdhi.e.: they might help16:55
aquatixhm, 491.26 persons per square km here in the netherlands16:56
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udovdhaccording to the CIA stats book?16:57
aquatix33.16 for the US16:57
udovdhnow comapre to long island16:57
aquatixyeah16:57
RST38h4900/km^2 in Moscow16:57
udovdhor costal region of bangladesh16:57
aquatixRST38h: this is complete netherlands16:58
RST38hEnjoy: http://www.citymayors.com/statistics/largest-cities-density-125.html16:58
aquatixpopulation / total land16:58
udovdhcities versus countries16:58
aquatixRST38h: including a lot of rural area :)16:58
RST38hTaipei is 1520016:58
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aquatixRST38h: you're talking about cities now, i'm talking countries ;)16:58
RST38hudovdh: I hope you understand how meaningless av. country figure would be for .RU :)16:58
udovdhfor us it is 31 I see?16:59
udovdhhttp://www.liechtenstein.li/en/pdf-fl-multimedia-information-bilateral-usa-praesentation.pdf16:59
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suihkulokkiRST38h: that citymayors site fucks up both the land area and population of helsinki17:00
RST38hsuihkulokki: Acknowledged. Looking for an alternate source.17:00
udovdhah http://quickfacts.census.gov/qfd/meta/long_POP060200.htm17:00
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aquatixudovdh: eh?17:01
udovdh79.x/KM^2 for usa17:02
udovdhaverage density of population per square km17:02
RST38h21.5/km^2 for RU is you choose to believe Wiki17:02
aquatixi just gave the numbers :)17:02
aquatix15:56:35       aquatix | hm, 491.26 persons per square km here in the netherlands17:02
aquatix15:57:47       aquatix | 33.16 for the US17:02
RST38h(as I said it is kinda meaningless unless we are talking of a small EU country)17:02
aquatixRST38h: true17:02
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udovdhaquatix, the graph I quote says different number17:02
udovdhoh... per square mile.17:03
udovdh:-)17:03
aquatix*g*17:03
aquatixmiles have been deprecated for a while ;)17:03
udovdhyes..17:03
* RST38h is seriously thinking of disabling Java in FireFox17:04
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aquatix``to convert square kilometers to square miles, divide by 2.58999'' - 79 / 2.59 is about 3317:04
RST38hEvery time I see the dreaded cup icon, it means FF3 is gonna die17:04
aquatixwell, what lets you?17:05
udovdhRST38h, ?17:05
RST38hudovdh: "?" is my reaction as well17:05
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RST38hFound it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_cities_by_population17:08
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inz!gcalc 79 km^2 in square miles17:11
inz79 (km^2) = 30.5020705 square miles17:11
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aquatixinz: it was 79 persons per km^217:13
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inz!gcalc 79/km^2 in square mile^-117:15
inz79 / (km^2) = 204.609061 square (mile^(-1))17:15
aquatixheh17:15
udovdh79 per square mile it was.17:15
udovdhnow in km17:16
aquatixah yes17:16
aquatix!gcalc 1 square mile in square km17:16
inz1 (square mile) = 2.58998811 square kilometers17:16
aquatix!gcalc 79 / 2.5899881117:16
inz79 / 2.58998811 = 30.502070517:16
aquatixhuh17:16
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udovdhdanke17:19
udovdh30.5 it is17:19
udovdhmaybe round up to 3117:19
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udovdhbecauase it was 79.x17:19
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Corsac!gcalc light speed in angstrom per fortnight17:19
inzthe speed of light = 3.62628957 * 10^24 angstrom per fortnight17:19
aquatixhey qwerty12_N80017:19
aquatixCorsac: heheheh17:20
qwerty12_N800hi aquatix :)17:20
qwerty12_N800Anyone happen to know what that thing for ubuntu is where it runs fsck upon shutdown - not while booting up >.<?17:21
aquatixon shutdown? ick17:21
andrewfblackOk, lets say I want to rip some of my dvds to video files to be played on N810, and my Netbook (has a screen rez of 1028x600 and I might want to play them on my psp also whats the best format and size for the riped movies17:23
andrewfblackor do I need to keep several copys of my movies17:24
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udovdhI got a strange question17:25
hannoandrewfblack: I'd encode one version for each.17:26
aquatixandrewfblack: i think you might want to rip to a higher res for your netbook than for the n81017:26
udovdhhmm. nevermind17:26
aquatixandrewfblack: i found that 320x240 (or similar) works fine on the n81017:26
aquatixmaybe slightly higher res17:26
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aquatixnetbook can do more17:26
andrewfblackguess i'll just stick with the 2 copys and just get a bigger hard drive for my home server lol17:27
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* aquatix had 640x480 on his n810 but that lags quite a bit17:27
aquatixandrewfblack: yep ;)17:27
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aquatix1TB is cheap nowadays :P17:27
* hanno is waiting for the new Nx00 hardware and hopes it will play full res video at 60fps.17:27
RST38hwhat res?17:27
hannomy usual lamento, i guess.17:27
GeneralAntilleshanno, what's "full res"?17:27
hanno800x480.17:27
aquatixthat'd be nice yes17:28
GeneralAntillesToo bad the OMAP36x's aren't coming out until late 2009.17:28
GeneralAntilles720p will work fine.17:28
wazdhanno: wh 60? why not 120?17:28
hannowazd: 60 fps is NTSC dvd format.17:28
* RST38h assumes LCD will stay the same, so 120 will be kinda excessive17:28
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andrewfblackif I ever get something to watch my digital videos on my big screen tv I guess I'll be having a third version of my files as well17:28
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wazdI think 30fps would be just fine17:29
GeneralAntillesandrewfblack, 360s are good for that. ;)17:29
wazd60fps are for gamers :)17:29
RST38halso make good space heaters...17:29
hannoActually, I want my future tablet to play native DVD files (720x480 / 720x576) without re-encoding them.17:29
andrewfblackGeneralAntilles, yeah but I have a wii and I never play it hate to get a 360 just for media center extender17:30
hannoBut hey, didn't I mention that far too often on this channel?17:30
* RST38h would rather discuss fuel efficiency than upcoming Nxxx17:30
GeneralAntillesandrewfblack, get a Netflix subscription to go with it and you'll be set.17:30
GeneralAntillesRST38h -> #cars17:30
wazd#fuelefficency :)17:31
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om_nom_nom25fps is tv isnt it17:31
RST38hThe topic is way too beaten by now and it is perfectly safe to say that the real hardware will be deemed unsatisfactory by most people present =)17:31
andrewfblackGeneralAntilles, wouldn't I be better off getting ps3 if I don't care about games and get blue ray player also17:31
RST38hom_nom: PAL or SECAM TV17:31
GeneralAntillesandrewfblack, dunno, never used a PS3. But they're more expensive.17:31
* om_nom_nom thinks the new hardware will be terrific17:31
* om_nom_nom looks forward to running it in powersave mode17:33
RST38hActually, the legendary RX-51 can be discussed in terms of what it WILL NOT be17:33
om_nom_nomthe rx-51 is just a higher ceiling :)17:33
RST38hi.e. not a phone, still not a decent video player, no working mail client, etc :)17:33
GeneralAntillesom_nom_nom, where it will likely perform in a vaguely OMAP2-like manner? ;)17:34
om_nom_nomwhy not decent video? the mafw is intended to make life easier here17:34
GeneralAntillesRST38h, why not decent video?17:34
hannoYep, why no decent video?17:34
RST38hGeneral: Dunno, just having this feeling17:34
om_nom_nomwith support for an mplayer backend as well as gstreamer it could be the pill we need17:34
GeneralAntillesRST38h, oh, FUD.17:34
GeneralAntillesRight. . . .17:34
RST38hGeneral: No, not FUD17:34
RST38hGeneral: I would actually WANT decent video playback17:34
GeneralAntillesWell, current OMAP3 devices play 720p without issue on the ARM core.17:34
RST38hGeneral: But got a nagging feeling that *something* will get screwed up again17:35
GeneralAntillesSo even if Nokia's DSP implementation is total shit, there's still that to fall back on.17:35
om_nom_nomGeneralAntilles: yes, it should perform at omap2 levels or above according to everything ive read.  thats important because if it does the additional benefit is even longer battery time17:35
RST38hGeneral: Hopefully...17:35
RST38hN810 gets *so* close17:35
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, you've got no facts to back up your assertion.17:35
GeneralAntillesom_nom_nom, actually (assuming there's nothing preventing it from idling) you're likely to get better battery life in ondemand than powersave.17:36
RST38hGeneral: Which I openly accept17:36
* andrewfblack is searching for a linux distro to replace his windows home server so he can free another computer17:36
om_nom_nomGeneralAntilles: only if something needs cpu randomly and occasionally, otherwise powersave pwns always17:36
aquatixandrewfblack: debian 5.0?17:37
RST38hGeneral: Or maybe I am lowering expectations on purpose, to celebrate when the gadget exceeds them :)17:37
aquatixom_nom_nom: ondemand does powersaving too17:37
GeneralAntillesom_nom_nom, the point is: race to idle.17:37
om_nom_nomif a process can operate at fullspeed without ever needing to clock up to fullspeed, then removing the ability myself will give me better perf17:37
aquatixom_nom_nom: but it uses a faster mode when needing to do stuff, so it races to idle indeed17:37
om_nom_nomyeah i know17:37
GeneralAntillesondemand will spend less time with the CPU active than powersave for the same task.17:37
* om_nom_nom ate lcuk earlier17:38
om_nom_nomi know aobut the powersaving stuff17:38
RST38hwas he tasty?17:38
GeneralAntillesEither way, OMAP3 is going to be scary with teh powersaving.17:38
om_nom_noma bit northern lol17:38
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* RST38h finally booted XP17:39
* om_nom_nom finds it confusing talking about himself in third person17:39
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* om_nom_nom wishes he couldget onto home computer17:40
andrewfblackok here is another question for you guys before I encode my video files for tablet and netbook what is best way to get it from dvd?17:40
om_nom_nomcopying from dvds is illegal17:40
aquatixom_nom_nom: fair use17:40
andrewfblackom_nom_nom, no its not if you own the dvd you can back it up17:40
Veggenom_nom_nom: is not.17:40
om_nom_nomno its not17:40
om_nom_nomwhich country are you in?17:40
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andrewfblackI havn''t heard of any country that it is illegal to backup your dvd17:41
qwerty12Even if it was, if you were not planning on redistributing the copy, I don't think many would give a shit...17:41
om_nom_nomMPAA would17:42
andrewfblackif I wanted to do something illegal I would save the time of encoding and just download it off line lol17:42
Veggensure. but MPAA does not define the law.17:42
om_nom_nomcool, you can download stuff offline now!17:42
Veggeneven though it looks like they do, at times.17:42
hannooh, btw, any news on a release date for the n810 successor? (I know I asked last week...)17:42
wazdwow! OMWeather is the most popular software for Maemo now :P17:42
om_nom_nomno, but the DMCA does17:42
aquatixwazd: whoa17:42
* RST38h sends black helicopters to andrewblack's17:42
Veggenom_nom_nom: Which is a US law, so doesn't apply everywhere :)17:42
om_nom_nomwazd well done, was that a combination of repeat downloads for tweaks? :D17:43
wazdom_nom_nom: yep, spent 3 weeks to do it xD17:43
om_nom_nomVeggen: which is why i asked where he was17:43
om_nom_nomlol17:43
RST38hhehe17:43
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andrewfblackus law says you can copy dvds and cds for backup and you can us the backup to listen/watch as long as you don't watch/listen to both at one time17:43
RST38hprobably listed it as an iPhone utility somewhere ;)17:43
RST38handrewfblack: prooflink?17:43
om_nom_nomandrewfblack: mmm?17:44
om_nom_nomsounds like pseudolaw17:44
* andrewfblack is not GeneralAntilles he doeesn't keep prooflinks in his clipbaord17:44
om_nom_nom"my friend said i can smuggle diamonds as long as i put them in champagne"17:44
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andrewfblackyou know i could ask for proof I can't do it just as easy I'm sure you odn't have a link handy17:45
RST38handrewfblack: US copyright laws have got pretty anal retentive recently17:45
hannooh, btw, any news on a release date for the n810 successor? (I know I asked last week...)17:45
RST38handrewfblack: I am not saying you should not copy that DVD, but do keep it in mind17:45
om_nom_nomhttp://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=654525517:46
hannoand a few seconds ago.17:46
om_nom_nom The Digital Millennium Copyright Act made it illegal to reproduce copyrighted material from DVDs -- even short excerpts.17:46
RST38hhanno: No.17:46
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GeneralAntilleshanno, don't expect anything before the alpha SDK release.17:46
RST38hom_nom_nom: "reproduce" has a bit different meaning17:46
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RST38hom_nom_nom: As in "quote publicly"17:46
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Khertanhanno : it ll be release only 1 year before the n101017:46
GeneralAntillesHehe, what are we getting first? The N1xxx or the N1xx?17:47
andrewfblackom_nom_nom, that link isn't what we are talking about those people wanted to burn several scenes from movies to be shown in class that would be public viewer of the files and yes that is illegal17:47
RST38hIsn't N1-something a WinCE based GPS device?17:47
GeneralAntillesRST38h, 33017:48
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.engadget.com/2006/10/30/nokias-330-auto-navigation-their-first-dedicated-gps-device/17:48
oliN500 is a gps navi device17:48
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RST38hah, yes17:48
qwerty12Nokia also do BSD routers17:48
Khertani like the 810 :)17:49
oliN500 is 330 older brother ;)17:49
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* RST38h reminds himself to plant some rumors on iTT17:49
RST38hLike "N9xx will be running Windows Mobile 6.5"17:49
Khertanhttp://www.nokia.com/A436327417:49
aquatixRST38h: heheheh, ick ;)17:49
Khertanhttp://www.nokia.fr/A436327417:49
Khertanwork better :)17:50
qwerty12RST38h, they'll make the "anti-thanks" button for you ;)17:50
RST38hOr "N9xx will be programmed in Flash and Silverlight"17:50
aquatixRST38h: speaking of which: http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/18/editorial-ten-reasons-why-windows-mobile-6-5-misses-the-mark/17:50
aquatixRST38h: hm, choose one of both and it's even plausible :/17:50
RST38hqwerty: Hey, at least I will rid quite a few people of boredom, isn't it a worthy cause?17:50
GeneralAntillesRST38h, nah, it'll be S60 running on Windows CE.17:50
aquatixwith a flash gui17:51
RST38haquatix: well, it is the same old crap indeed, we all knew that17:51
oliKhertan: Nokia 810 , LOL :D17:51
RST38hGeneral: This, unfortunately, is already true17:51
* RST38h can almost believe N97 will come with a choice of S60 or Maemo17:52
GeneralAntillesNot this year17:52
GeneralAntillesBut maybe next.17:52
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RST38hBTW, HTC is upping all their high end phones with 800x480 screens17:53
om_nom_nomresolution of n97 is too low for maemo stuff17:53
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om_nom_nommost maemo software will not be happy in the res17:53
RST38hyea17:53
Khertan(16:50:13) RST38h: Or "N9xx will be programmed in Flash and Silverlight" << they ve found how to include a nuclear generator in a mobile ?17:53
oliRST38h: they called first model with that resolution HTC Touch ___HD___, didn't they?17:53
RST38holi: Correct. But now both normal Touch2 and Touch2 Pro have got it17:54
RST38hKhertan; AFAIK Flash has got the same kind of event loop as any GUI, so it should be ok =)17:54
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RST38hDunno about Silverlight.17:54
oliRST38h: IMO the most appropiate screen size for 800/480 is 6" or more17:55
* aquatix likes the size of the screen on the n810 with that res17:56
X-Fadeoli: Nah, far too large!17:56
aquatixhaving it on a htc phone is overkill imho17:56
RST38holi: has to fit into my pocket.17:56
aquatixnice for browsing, but just a tad too small17:56
RST38hthe phones have become bigger too17:56
om_nom_nomno, they just spent a couple of years being too small17:56
X-Fadeaquatix: Should not have to be too small. You can just render larger chars? Only far more beautiful :D17:56
om_nom_nomphones have historically been large17:57
aquatixX-Fade: yep17:57
lardman_see you next week chaps17:57
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aquatixX-Fade: that's one of my own reasons btw :)17:57
* aquatix likes highres17:57
om_nom_nomx-fade, high resolution font glyphs :)17:57
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X-FadeI'll take a 500dpi display any day ;)17:57
aquatixbut i think using 800x480 on a htc phone with windows is just... meh17:57
oli800x480 = 5* 320x240  :>17:58
* om_nom_nom likes best of both17:58
* andrewfblack was just thinking he is more scared of being sued by Nokia for maemobox.org then he is for backing up a dvd17:58
GeneralAntillesandrewfblack, you wont be sued.17:58
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GeneralAntillesAt worst it'll be a takedown letter.17:59
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, amen!17:59
andrewfblackGeneralAntilles, what if I don't listen to the takedown letter :) lol17:59
GeneralAntillesOnce we get some nice, resolution independent UIs, the more pixels the merrier.17:59
om_nom_nomX-Fade: stereo display HUDs17:59
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RST38handrewfblack: Actually, DMCA does not let copyright owner sue UNTIL he serves you a tekdown notice18:00
RST38htakedown18:00
RST38hafter that he can sue you18:00
om_nom_nomonce you get resolution independent you forget all about pixels :) (barring a few very extreme cases)18:00
* om_nom_nom is nearly there18:00
andrewfblackkinda hope nokia lets it slide would be alot of work for me to change it18:00
om_nom_nomthats the defense the pirate-bay are using18:01
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GeneralAntillesCan you imagine FBReader at 600dpi?18:01
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om_nom_nomwhat dpi is kindle?18:02
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RST38hGeneral: SLOW.18:02
GeneralAntillesom_nom_nom, low.18:02
GeneralAntilles600x80018:02
RST38h167dpi for kindle18:03
GeneralAntillesRST38h, assuming there's hardware enough to back it up.18:03
om_nom_nomwith aa fonts thats still double what my monitor is18:03
RST38hcorrect18:03
Stskeepsqwerty12: apt is c++ btw..18:03
RST38hbut a printed page is usually 300dpi18:03
GeneralAntillesRST38h, but with that high a DPI, you could halve the resolution and still have it look good.18:03
om_nom_nomwe have used much lower dpis in pdas for years18:04
qwerty12Stskeeps, I know :) (I've rebuilt it for diablo before...)18:04
om_nom_nomkindle display must be sweet18:04
RST38hGeneral: You can, need ot have a decent overall size18:04
GeneralAntillesom_nom_nom, and it sucked.18:04
Stskeepsqwerty12: upload source to trac and i'll deal with it.. c++ is broken in mer sb18:04
RST38hGeneral: I.e. more pixels ===> more data to push ==> slow18:04
qwerty12Stskeeps, fuck. You installed it?18:04
qwerty12The deb that is.18:04
GeneralAntillesRST38h, right, which is why I say assume decent enough hardware.18:04
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, woo @ karma boost. ;)18:05
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Stskeepsqwerty12: yup, test installation though18:05
RST38hThis is actually serious amounts of data, I am afraid current crop of ARM SoCs can;t handle it18:05
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, indeed :) ;)18:05
RST38hEven 800x480 HTCs are dead slow18:05
Stskeepsqwerty12: so it doesn't matter that i brolke it18:05
qwerty12Stskeeps, good.18:06
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thopiekarjeremiah_: ?18:13
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* slonopotamus almost compiled gcc-4.3.2. hehe.18:16
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slonopotamusfilename cfgloopanal.c looks scary :)18:23
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andrewfblackyou know I didn't notice until last night there are 10 pages of games on the downloads maemo page18:33
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GeneralAntillesSafari 4's new tabs are obnoxious.18:59
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AStormnobody cares19:01
AStorm;>19:01
AStorm(except mac fanboi)19:01
GeneralAntilless/fanboi/users/19:01
AStormnah19:01
AStormusers should wait for .0.119:02
mgedminGeneralAntilles: is there a difference?19:02
GeneralAntillesmgedmin, I dunno, I'm a user and don't consider myself a fanboi.19:02
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GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N800, hum, maemoorg-splash wont update.19:15
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GeneralAntilleshttp://slexy.org/view/s20kchQ7s519:16
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qwerty12_1shitfuck. Now I'll have to reboot again :)19:17
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AStormhmm19:18
* AStorm wants something to swear about19:18
AStormother than vacuum cleaners19:18
qwerty12_N800economy?19:19
AStormold19:19
Corsacemacs19:19
AStormI sweared about the "crisis" already19:19
GeneralAntillesFlying zombies.19:19
AStormnah, emacs is too effing good ;)19:19
qwerty12_N800dpkg19:19
AStormwhat the fuck?19:19
AStormflying zombies?19:20
AStorm;)19:20
AStormwhat about zombies of celestials?19:20
AStormor zombie dragons?19:20
AStorm:P19:20
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jaskazombie birds19:20
AStormnah, they lose feathers19:21
AStormand can't fly19:21
jaskabats19:21
jaskafruitflies19:21
qwerty12_N800fuck set -e19:21
AStormof the goddamned kind?19:21
Proteouscats eating cornflakes19:21
ProteousNOM NOM NOM NOM NOM19:21
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AStormcan't wait for caturday19:22
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AStormso many days till that...19:22
Proteousuh huh19:22
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timelE61igan: i haven't launched saf4 yet19:34
GeneralAntillestimelE61i, can you with 10.3?19:35
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GeneralAntillesI guess I should buckle down and recreate my shopping list.19:37
GeneralAntilleslbt, why? :(19:37
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timelE61iwXP19:37
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lbtGeneralAntilles: err. what?19:37
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GeneralAntilleslbt, I can't use my shopping list from before.19:37
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lbtOh19:37
lbtI can :)19:38
lbtah19:38
GeneralAntillesTrying to delete items crashes it.19:38
lbthave you any apostrophes in there?19:38
lbtI, err, may not escape entities yet <blush>19:38
GeneralAntillesDunno19:38
GeneralAntillesThe shopping list doesn't show up in the file chooser at all, though.19:38
lbtwant to send me the xml?19:38
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qwerty12GeneralAntilles, you should find fixed maemo.org & athf ones here: http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/splash/ (tested athf-splash and it upgraded fine)19:39
GeneralAntilleslbt, http://slexy.org/view/s2tPtXJKz719:39
lbtta - I'll get back to you...19:40
GeneralAntilleslbt, newer one: http://slexy.org/view/s21kmns65z19:40
GeneralAntillesThey should at least show up in the open dialog, though, right?19:40
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GeneralAntillesqwerty12, OK, uploading. . . .19:41
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Khertanbye19:44
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lbtGeneralAntilles: try renaming the list to *.xml - I added a filter when I used the Qt filedialog20:02
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GeneralAntillesAh, excellent, that did it.20:03
* GeneralAntilles can go to grocery store after he drops off his trashed 360 at the UPS Store, now!20:04
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lbtI just fixed that and removed the filter20:10
lbtI've seen the delete crash - an ASSERT fails - it's sporadic though - grrr20:11
lbtanhow - Wii fit now... back l8r20:12
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lcukrkorototykyiyiuuu8iyiyiyiiyiyiyiyiguygngjgjgjgjgjgjgjifififfkflflfflfl20:15
* GeneralAntilles shoots a tranq dart at lcuk.20:15
qwerty12Wow. You just typed my thoughts.20:16
lcukt;yly;p;g;yy6o7uopu p 06 5076                                                                                                                                                                                 jacob20:16
lcukdad20:16
lcukmuu20:16
qwerty12Lets all type nonsense20:16
qwerty12I'm looking for nookie tonight20:17
lcukluke20:17
GeneralAntillesDid the kids find the N810? :P20:18
luke-jrwhat20:18
luke-jrqwerty12: sounds fun?20:18
luke-jrriodgjeorgoerpg[rgpp20:18
luke-jr04t93tgmki0tre20:18
qwerty12If so.. psst, find the latest liqbase library and upload it to www.rapidshare.net20:18
qwerty12s/library/app/20:18
infobotqwerty12 meant: If so.. psst, find the latest liqbase app and upload it to www.rapidshare.net20:18
lcukoi, sorry for jacob posting, but qwerty grrr dont have him sending to rapidshare, ive got a paid for ftp account for stuff like that20:19
GeneralAntilleslol20:19
lcukGeneralAntilles, its my main machine - we were sidetracked making pancakes20:19
GeneralAntilleslcuk, just be happy he didn't teach him to swear. :P20:19
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lcukjake knows more20:20
qwerty12:P20:20
lcukanyway back soon20:20
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lcuki am officially crap at tossing this year.20:51
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timelesstossing?20:51
aquatixlcuk: don't toss kids20:52
aquatixthey always miss the target20:52
lcuktimeless, shrove tuesday: pancake tossing20:52
lcuklol aquatix20:52
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gnutonHello21:00
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mavhcweird, my n810 boots to the home screen, lets me start loading apps, then restarts21:17
mavhcbut 2nd time around usually works21:17
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GeneralAntillesandre__, it must get old having people assume that Nokia's decisions are yours just because you're the one that has to pass them on.21:53
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andre__GeneralAntilles, let's shoot the messenger!21:55
andre__(any specific one you refer to?)21:55
* GeneralAntilles is so game!21:55
* GeneralAntilles chases after andre__ with a Nerf gun.21:55
GeneralAntillesUh, the timezone one right now.21:55
GeneralAntilles /alarms21:55
andre__ah21:56
* andre__ checks for new hatemail :-P21:56
qwerty12_N800andre__: you're dead many times over in that case :p21:56
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GeneralAntilless/bugmaster/Fall Guy/21:57
andre__i already tried to be clearer by saying "Nokia said", "internal comment", $blah21:58
andre__seems there's still room for improvement21:58
qwerty12_N800How about adding "FUCK YOU HATERS!" to the end?21:59
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andre__:-D21:59
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andre__qwerty12_N800, i might run into problems with some people paying me, but i can't say that i dislike the idea :-D22:00
timelesshi andre__22:00
qwerty12_N800andre__: hehe, they're haters too in that case :p22:00
andre__qwerty12_N800, reminds me of an old ximian hacker five years ago that was nearly fired by novell because of a "why do people always have to fucking argue" comment to a customer in bugzilla22:01
GeneralAntillesTexrat of all people should know better, too.22:01
andre__timeless, hej hej22:01
GeneralAntillesandre__, how about enabling HTML mail just for your comments?22:01
andre__what's the adv?22:01
GeneralAntillesThen you can toss in some 32pt red Impact. :P22:01
andre__<blink>hell yeah!</blink>22:02
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GeneralAntillesOr maybe Comic Sans22:02
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zommiHi. I'm trying to install gtk-g-rays on diablo - unfortunately it requires libglade version 2.6.1 which does not seem to be available :(22:02
andre__no, using Comic Sans will make my eyes vomit22:03
aquatixthat's... an interesting concept22:03
qwerty12_N800Wingdings!22:03
aquatix*crinch*22:03
andre__zommi, libglade 2.6.3 will be available in fremantle alpha which will be released soon(tm)22:04
andre__see https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=340022:04
GeneralAntillesDon't they have a train dingbat font?22:04
GeneralAntillesChoo! Choo!22:05
zommiandre__: Ok fine. But how is gtk-g-rays supposed to be installed now?22:05
andre__*shrug*22:05
andre__use an older version depending on an available libglade version? (yeah, sucks)22:06
zommithe older versions unfortunately require tons of older hildon packages22:08
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qwerty12_N800you can probably rebuild it. iirc, a newer libglade was uploaded to chinook extras and this messed up things.22:08
andre__dependency hell...22:08
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wazd"fremantle alpha which will be released soon" should be typed as one word I think :)22:51
qwerty12_N800only if you can pronounce it as one word :p22:52
lcukactually it can, but it makes you sound like an old drunk22:53
aquatixfawwbrs?22:53
aquatixor `that almost-release'22:53
wazdI wonder why tm sign doesn't work :(22:53
wazd?22:53
lcukit could be typed on the n8x0 with bluetooth keyboard "fremantle alphaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa which will be releasssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssed soon"22:53
wazd©22:54
aquatixlcuk: actually, bt keyboard seems to work well nowadays22:54
aquatixlcuk: at least it does here22:54
lcukdepends on what you are doing22:54
wazdcopyright works, tm not :(22:54
qwerty12_N800qwerty12 da pimp™22:54
lcukyeah understood, it still glitches occasionally if im coding and transfering files and running system22:54
wazdqwerty12_N800: do you use alt+#?22:54
wazdqwerty12_N800: alt+212222:54
qwerty12_N800wazd: I use the n800's on screen keyboard :)22:55
wazdqwerty12_N800: ah, damn cheaters :)22:55
qwerty12_N800character map tells you afaik... also num lock has to be off if you use the keypad iirc22:56
AStormlcuk: that's kernel scheduler fail22:56
AStormupdate kernel and it will go away22:56
AStormthat is: use mer22:56
lcuklast time i updated kernel my code went away22:56
AStorm?22:56
lcukit scared me and ive not reflashed or fucked with anything since22:56
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lcukat the summit, jott put rotation on tablet, and he also put the fast mmc patch22:57
qwerty12_N800AStorm: mer still uses 2.6.21 for N8x0 currently22:57
lcukit made liqbase vanish22:57
lcuki was mortified22:57
AStormbut it's updatable, because it's ready for new wifi driver22:57
AStormlcuk: never had such a problem22:57
aquatixlcuk: you don't have off-device backups?22:57
AStormyou probably forgot to include some jffs2 compression method22:57
lcukaquatix, of course i did, but i was at the summit with the only "backup" being the device itself22:58
aquatixlcuk: fun :/22:58
GeneralAntillestimeless, your new strings make a lot of menus very thin. :P22:58
lcukyeah, jott cured it though :)22:58
* qwerty12_N800 uses his 2.6.21 "uber kernel" (all the patches I could find) fine22:58
lcukyeah i will stick to my slow and stead generic kernel :)22:58
AStormbbl22:58
AStorm(reinstalling system due to fs failure)22:59
AStormah, right22:59
aquatixAStorm: good luck22:59
AStormdo you know of some tool to test disk barrier support?22:59
lcukwhen people are coding, do you notice what your cycle time is between test phases?22:59
AStormbecause I'm not sure if it was that + write cache, or the experimental fs22:59
AStormlcuk: hmm?23:00
lcukie, i run the app, identify the problem, code it, compile, run, notice problem, tweak it etc23:00
AStormit depends on the phase of development23:00
lcukthe adjustment cycles23:00
AStormand whether I'm coding in Python, C, C++ or other language23:00
AStormC takes many more cycles thanks to malloc and no OOP23:01
AStorm;P23:01
lcukbecause liqbase has an idle timeout which shows a message on console every 1 0seconds, im getting used to how long it was idle before i have to stop and rerun it23:01
lcukso i stop looking at liqbase and from that point on until i am ready to rerun i know how long its been :) on average its about 40 seconds23:01
AStormthis means you do trial-and-error coding23:02
AStormbad.23:02
AStormunless you're truly tweaking some minor feature23:02
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lcuktweaking and adjusting formulas and options and tryign variations usually23:03
AStormcan't write more variations at one time and have some switches?23:04
clutchskihey guys ... anyone have experience marshaling structs in dbus signals with dbus-glib?23:04
AStormthat's how usually I do it after some devel is done23:04
AStorm(no, not ifdef - runtime options)23:05
lcukastorm, i can once i have the framework to allow that kind of stuff23:05
* lcuk hates #ifdef23:05
AStormyeah, ifdef is suck23:06
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aladdsis the keyboard on the n810 actually any good?23:23
AStormit is usable23:24
AStormthe dpad is weak23:24
lbtno23:24
aladdsah23:24
aladdsthought so23:24
AStormit's not meant for massive text entry ofc23:24
aladdsso no real improvement in usability over the n80023:24
aladdswell yeah23:24
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AStormno, huge improvement23:24
aladdsbut for typing urls and such23:24
AStormyou get more screen space23:24
aladdshmm23:25
AStormthat, you can also do some light word processing23:25
AStormgood enough for irc too23:25
AStormand IM23:25
aladdshmm23:25
AStormcan write an email23:25
lbtor you get a bluetooth one23:25
aladdswell you can do that on the 770/n80023:25
AStormyeah, but that's expensive and less portable23:25
aladdshmm23:25
AStormaladds: but not as convenient23:25
aladdstrue23:26
AStormalso, eats more battery23:26
lbtyeah - buy an 81023:26
aladdsi'm tempted by a n81023:26
aladdsi had (and broke :-$) and 77023:26
AStormget it, or save for half a year23:26
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AStormand get the next device in package with Fremantle23:26
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aladdsis there another machine on the horizon then?23:27
AStorm(plus gprs modem)23:27
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AStormyeah23:27
lbt(you see AStorm, he needs to see someone else be persuaded - play the game)23:27
aladdshmmm23:27
AStormlbt: hehe23:27
aladdsby then it might just be worth getting an openpandors though23:27
AStormaladds: of course, it will be more expensive23:27
aladdsopenpandora23:27
AStormalso, don't hunt for wimax23:27
AStormno, openpandora sucks23:27
AStormreally.23:27
aladdsyeah wimax ones are 2x more23:27
aladdsreally?23:28
AStormit's not too portable23:28
aladdshm23:28
AStormand until mer gets ready, it has no decent distro23:28
aladdsah23:28
Pebby_AStorm: haven't used an openpandora - why does it suck?23:28
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AStormPebby_: well, physical stuff23:29
AStormmostly23:29
qwerty12_N800openpandora is a myth - lemme know when someone actually *gets one23:29
AStormqwerty12_N800: we have some devel one23:29
AStormI don't know how that working group on our uni got one23:29
lbtGeneralAntilles: I think I found the crash problem - I was replaying events to a widget that had been deleted...23:29
AStormmust've been some underhanded stuff23:29
GeneralAntilleslbt, what purpose does the statusbar applet serve?23:30
GeneralAntillesAlso, do you want a b.m.o product?23:30
Pebby_"people on the internet" have gotten OpenPandoras, but I have yet to meet one ;) I wouldn't use it as a computer, though... the mini-emulator is the biggest appeal, and the n810 just can't do that, unfortunately23:30
AStormbtw, could someone fix pidgin "tray" icon?23:30
AStormbecause when there's no window, it crashes matchbox23:30
lbtthe statusbar is a side effect of the 'notify' function - I'm trying to remove it :)23:30
lbtb.m.o ?23:30
aladdswell for a mini emulator you could just get a gp2x thingy23:30
GeneralAntilleslbt, bugs.maemo.org23:30
Pebby_aladds: I'm pretty sure the openpandora is just the next rendition of the gp2x thingy23:31
AStormaladds: yes, but nokia's is more versatile23:31
lbtyes23:31
AStormand more powerful23:31
aladdsvery true, but the gp2x is cheaper, and better for games23:31
AStormyup, except it is mostly vaporware23:31
lbthow do I get that?23:31
AStormaladds: but it's not all about games23:31
aladdsof course23:31
AStormotherwise we'd get gameboy ;P23:31
lbtis it different to garage bugs?23:31
Pebby_AStorm: sure, but the n810 isn't powerful enough to run many emulators, and the n810 doesn't have a good control mechanism, sadly - n800 is actually better off23:31
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AStormPebby_: yeah23:32
AStormthat's why I'm waiting for the next one23:32
aladdsn810 runs mac os though?23:32
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AStormsee what nokia will make of it23:32
aladdsthat opens up lots of old games23:32
AStormaladds: sadly, not enough cpu for most...23:32
aladdsah23:32
aladdsshame23:32
lbtalso GA, I'm adding in a preferences dialog so you can tick the "2 column" option :)23:32
aladdsi knew it was useless on my 77023:33
aladdsbut i heard it had decent speed on the n81023:33
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Pebby_Yeah, the emulators aren't the problem, it's the power of the device... was made to last 15 days while on and not in use, not play games ;)23:33
aladds:P23:33
Pebby_I'm always surprised mine's still on, half the time, haha23:33
aladdsi may hold off for now anyway, i do have an iPod Touch after all23:33
AStormhmm23:34
AStormyeah, I'd wait those few months23:34
AStormalthough, the new device will likely be expensive, obviously23:34
Pebby_If you have something that satisfies that niche, yeah, I'd wait too23:34
AStormbut at least n810 will take a major drop in price23:34
AStorm:)23:34
aladdshere's hoping23:34
AStormthe new one will have OMAP3 afaicr23:34
aladdsi got my 770 for £4023:34
GeneralAntillesThe N810's price has dropped.23:35
AStormmuch more powerful CPU23:35
AStormGeneralAntilles: it will drop more (on ebay)23:35
aladdscheapest 810 now is about £17023:35
GeneralAntillesHardware details: http://maemo.org/midcom-permalink-9edfb716df5e11ddac642b2e5199d2f3d2f323:35
AStormas people will sell their old n81023:35
aladdsbrb23:36
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Pebby_AStorm: sell my n810? NEVER ;)23:36
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AStormat least the next one will be an actual phone23:36
AStormI won't either23:36
AStorm*neither23:36
AStormbecause I'll abuse it for a devel platform23:36
GeneralAntillesEr, phone?23:36
AStormGeneralAntilles: gprs modem23:37
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GeneralAntillesAStorm, HSPA != phone.23:37
Pebby_AStorm: exactly... I bought my friend's old n800 so I could do stupid stuff to it without worrying23:37
AStormwe can do that in software23:37
AStormGPRS modem == call support23:37
AStorm(at least on modern networks)23:37
Pebby_I still have my hopes for the software, not the hardware... I know they can advance the hardware, but it remains to be seen if I will be really excited about it for the hardware23:38
AStormthe trick will be obviously compressing that audio23:38
AStormPebby_: fremantle will be a moderate upgrade23:38
Pebby_AStorm: =/23:38
AStormbut really a lot of behind-the-scenes stuff is improved23:39
AStormand well, you can try mer now23:39
Pebby_AStorm: Ah well... I'm waiting for the usability and interface fixes. It's too finger/pen/finger/pen right now =/ Will mer install on an n800 or does it need an n810?23:39
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AStormI think it should work on n80023:40
AStormit does right now23:40
AStormUI fixes aren't a priority I think...23:40
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timelessthere's no real difference between the n800 and n81023:40
AStormmost of that is possible to improve with a better gtk theme23:40
timelessso it'd be a real challenge to make something that only worked on one23:41
AStormexcept the keyboard and different wifi firmware, yeah23:41
timelessas mer wants to be portable, it wasn't up to that challenge23:41
AStormand GPS chip (sucky though anyway) vs radio23:41
lcuktimeless, quite easy unfortunately lack of a hard keyboard is troublesome23:41
AStormthe problem is lack of real on-screen keyboard23:41
AStormyeah23:41
Pebby_Ahh, unfortunate... if there's one thing I'd fix on the n810, it's the UI. Even if it's just a GTK theme, they could learn a lesson from some other 'touch' devices.23:41
AStormyou get to use xvkb23:41
lcukyou have to use xvkb23:42
AStormPebby_: do it then! we'll be grateful23:42
timelesswell... it's possible to make it hard to use23:42
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timelessbut it isn't as easy to make it not install23:42
Pebby_AStorm: I tried tweaking it at one point, at least made the scroll bars bigger!23:42
timelessnote the distinction :)23:42
AStormPebby_: yeah, you can do the same with menus (font) and with text boxes23:42
AStormthat should fix most problems23:42
timelessfwiw, i haven't seen many osk's for linux that didn't suck23:43
timelesswhich isn't to say i'm going to go out of my way to defend the nokia osk's23:43
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AStormtimeless: we get to write one23:43
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AStormsee, maybe I'll write my own.23:43
timelesswell, please talk to me23:43
AStormas hildon-im is fairly broken now and limited23:43
timelessi'll gladly give you feedback23:43
AStormgood23:43
AStormit will do handwriting first and foremost23:44
* lcuk smiles23:44
AStormbut once I get X events right, osk is certainly simple23:44
AStorm:>23:44
AStormthe problem is show-hide operation23:44
AStormhildon has a hack in GTK and Qt to do that23:44
Pebby_AStorm: Yeah, I played with it a lot for a while... I tried just making a simple 'app launcher' that was a big grid of ugly buttons, and that was actually pretty nice. Unfortunately, one of my early problems trying to do stuff on the n810 (and why I gave up) was the scratchbox install + debian packaging. I literally could not make debian packages for the n810, no one could help me, and I just gave up =/23:44
AStormPebby_: there is one already23:45
AStormPersonal Launcher23:45
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AStorm:)23:45
* AStorm is using that, work nicely23:45
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AStormyeah, because debian is PITA wrt packages23:45
AStormsame problem for me23:46
Pebby_AStorm: I haven't tried that yet (is it new? didn't see it on garage when I was playing with it), but I'd really like to be able to cross-compile and package, then send it to the n810 easily. More importantly, get answers about why following the tutorial on how to make .debs produces bad results =/23:46
AStormPebby_: it's in the garage, yeah23:46
AStormat least extras repo, if not the garage23:46
AStormyeah, need someone well-versed in that to write a real howto23:47
Pebby_Ahh, cool... I'll check it out. I should upgrade to Diablo at some point if they're not updating the old repos23:47
AStormstill, mer is using Ubuntu as base23:47
AStormso packaging should be simpler there23:47
ShadowJKfunny that, I'd want smaller scroll bars :-)23:47
ShadowJKOr reliable tap-and-drag scrolling, and no scrollbars at all23:47
AStormand kinetic scrolling?23:47
Pebby_ShadowJK: or decent press-and-drag scrolling23:47
AStormyeah, we could use kinetic scrolling in GTK23:47
lbtAStorm: usw Qt :)23:48
ShadowJKIf this kinetic scrolling thing is what Tear does, I don't like it.23:48
AStormyeah23:48
AStormexcept Qt has none either23:48
Pebby_I tried to make a smooth scrolling extension for firefox work on the n810 but it was a horrible failure, haha23:48
AStormso we get to add it23:48
AStormShadowJK: what canola does23:48
lbthttp://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPQ1VlyMPYU23:48
AStormor iPawn23:48
lbtmy "Qt Finger Scrolling and Gestures"23:48
AStormPebby_: n810 is too slow for that many screen updates23:48
AStormhmm23:49
lcuk:)23:49
* lcuk doesnt find the n8x0 too slow23:49
Pebby_AStorm: definitely, even with the current finger-scrolling the screen doesn't keep up most of the time23:49
AStormlbt: does it work for all Qt apps?23:49
timelesspebby: have you tried liqbase?23:49
AStormor rather, most?23:49
AStormPebby_: that's because cpu is slow and microb could use more optimizations23:49
lbtAStorm: my approach requires a code change23:49
Pebby_AStorm: here's my question: can i change the mapping of the finger scroll to scroll 3x my finger movement? That was my real problem - I don't care about speed23:49
Pebby_errr update speed23:49
AStorm(e.g. firefox 3.2pre engine)23:49
Pebby_I just don't want to rub through the damn screen trying to scroll a long page23:50
AStormPebby_: uh, I don't think so23:50
timelesspebby: so...23:50
lcukPebby_, heh, i once tried that, giving different scroll speed depending upon x location23:50
timelessfor an n800 you can change the arrow keys to be pagedown23:50
Pebby_timeless: no, what's liqbase?23:50
ShadowJKI have issues where tap-and-hold is identified as tap, or hold-and-drag is identified as multiple taps :P This kinetic thing in tear just randomly sends the page scrolling at lightspeed, and then it can't keep up rendering that much new stuff23:50
lcukits a strange effect, but it works well23:50
timelessor something else23:50
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AStormwhat about coasting like on touchpads?23:50
lcukPebby_, start here, this is latest http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMXp0Dg_UaY23:50
AStormthat's certainly nice23:50
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AStormor faster scroll by using two fingers - pseudomultitouch23:50
lcukthere is a released version in extras, and there is a later version (as glanced at in the video) in svn23:50
AStormthese should be easy23:51
AStormlcuk: ^23:51
Pebby_AStorm: the scrolly thing on the right side of touchpads? Or a wheel on the side ;) I like wheels, haha... kind of dorky, I guess23:51
AStormno no23:51
AStormI mean, using two fingers, like that synaptics driver option23:51
timelessi'm pretty sure you can't get the rate for drags in the browser changed23:51
AStormand coasting when you scroll to the end of surface23:51
AStormyeah, because microb has it hardcoded23:51
Pebby_lcuk: ahh, that's pretty cool... I see people have been working on things while I've been away, haha. That looks really promising23:51
timelessbut again, it should be possible to alter how the arrow keys work23:51
AStormtimeless: ctrl+arrow is faster23:52
AStormor was it shift+arrow23:52
AStorm:)23:52
lcukyes pebby_, it does :) the currently released liqbase has fullscreen kinetic scrolling and is the smoothest ui around :)23:52
lbtAStorm: I like that idea - kinetic when you get to the edge of the screen...23:52
lbtyeah and I know why23:52
lcukyou just need kinetic if you swipe23:52
lbtI figured it out!23:52
AStormlbt: actually, more like locked23:52
AStormnot kinetic23:52
lcukfigured what out lbt?>23:52
lbtall the bacon makes it greasy ;23:52
AStormcoasting :)23:52
lcukheh23:52
Pebby_lcuk: The last thing I did on my n810 was try installing raster's illume UI (enlightenment-based gui they're using for openmoko, I think?)23:52
lbtit's lubricated inside !23:53
AStormlbt: lol23:53
AStormyeah, the screen does take grease far too well23:53
Pebby_lbt: grease release button?23:53
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lcukthats a good explanation: liqbase - sliding on bacon fat23:53
AStormand the surface is a bit flimsy23:53
AStormI managed to get something lodged in it... some grain of sand or sth23:54
AStormannoying as hell23:54
AStormeven as careful as I were23:54
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* lcuk sometimes cleans his screen and stylus with wd4023:54
AStormheh23:54
AStormand remove antireflex layer?23:54
AStormbad idea23:54
AStormmy screen is clean... usually23:54
aquatixlcuk: there's an idea for my phone23:54
lcukscreen is already dead23:54
roopeKevin Bacon.23:54
AStormbut this slight damage is annoying23:55
AStormlcuk: hahah23:55
ShadowJKThis industrial touchscreen at work is awesome. The screen has 800x400 resolution or something thereabouts. The touchscreen has about 64x64 resolution, and you can see the individual touchpixels because there's a small gap between them :)23:55
AStormShadowJK: hehehe23:55
AStormfailscreen23:55
AStormbtw, those Tomtom screens are excellent23:55
ShadowJKYeah well, the UI is designed accordingly, so it works nicely23:55
AStormvery durable, fairly high resolution too23:55
ShadowJKfuture project; mer on tomtom?23:55
AStormShadowJK: no, tomtom app on n8x023:56
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AStorm;P23:56
AStormI should get that started23:56
lcukroope, how many steps away from him are you23:56
ShadowJKtomtom software does some scary stuff :-)23:56
lcukliqbase on tomtom would be cool23:56
AStormShadowJK: nah, just framebuffer writes23:56
AStormexcept tomtom devices are far slower23:56
AStormI suspect slower than 77023:57
lcuklike that bothers me23:57
AStormit will23:57
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lcuklower the res and carry on regardless23:57
lcukliqbase is happy no matter what its got23:57
ShadowJKAStorm, they actually did this thing where they cut power 50 times in a row during a "critial" stage of boot or upgrade, with many different filesystems :-)23:57
sashka_n800hello everybody23:57
AStormmeh, you can't do 800x480 at these23:57
AStormonly 640x48023:57
AStormor something like it23:57
AStormShadowJK: heh23:57
AStormtheir flashing software is junk, yeah23:58
AStormthe filesystem is jffs2, really23:58
AStormor was it ext2...23:58
sashka_n800how to remove contacts menu from left toolbar?23:58
AStormI think jffs2.23:58
ShadowJKthe stuff on SD card is vfat with an image file in ext2, i think23:58
AStormsashka_n800: use the control panel :)23:58
ShadowJKthat was the part they were testing for blowing up23:59
ShadowJKknowing user tendency to randomly eject cards at inappropriate times :)23:59
AStormprobably.23:59
AStormstill, tomtom only uses fb and serial port23:59
AStormah, and touchscreen device23:59
AStormso, this is all possible to emulate23:59
AStormthese are Linux apis too.23:59

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