IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2009-02-22

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* timeless is having issues w/ apt00:05
* Stskeeps is waiting for his 770 image to build so he can go to bed sometime tonight00:05
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* b-man is watching some more gory htf episodes on youtube to pass the time00:10
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lcukb-man, youtube and gory dont really go together00:14
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timelessdoes mer support usb storage?00:19
AStormwhy not? it's just a kernel module and host mode away00:20
timelesswell, i don't have X11, and while it detected my stick00:20
timelessit didn't mount it, afaict00:20
Stskeepsit doesn't automount, no00:20
AStormyou get to mount it00:20
AStormit doesn't do ivman00:21
AStormyou could add it I guess00:21
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* timeless sighs00:26
timeless%s v%s is available for download. %s%sClick OK to the download the new version.00:26
timelessanyone see anything obviously wrong there?00:27
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AStormtoo many %s? ;>00:27
timelessignore those :)00:27
qwerty12_N800ooh, I know! is it the 'the'?!00:28
timelessit is, it is!00:28
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* timeless sighs00:35
timelessmost people would say 'yes please'00:35
* timeless sighs00:36
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timelesswhat idiot thought that english strings made good keys?00:36
timelessi mean00:36
timelessok, so nokia's approach is stupid00:36
timelessbut gosh, this is worse00:36
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* Stskeeps is a little impressed by os2007he00:40
timelessGizmo  Error00:40
timeless(-) Security Image Error00:40
timelessOperation too slow. Less than 1 bytes/sec00:41
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timelesstransfered the last 120 seconds00:41
* timeless sighs00:43
timelessthe Gizmo UI truly sucks00:43
* timeless remembers testing it a while ago00:43
timelessit made me *want* to use Nokia apps00:43
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timelessand yes, the poor spelling of transferred was in the dialog00:44
GAN8001Gizmo isn't worth using00:46
GAN8001Just hook it up through rtcomm.00:46
timelessincluding not worth translating? :)00:46
jeremiahAre you guy still at it?00:47
jeremiahIt is almost midnight on a Saturday?00:47
timelessno, it's almost 1am on sunday00:47
Stskeeps11:46pm here00:47
jeremiahWhy aren't you out partying or making merry?00:47
Stskeepsi am at a lan party drinking beer.00:48
timelessyou need to pay more attn to time zones :)00:48
timelessjeremiah: i'm too old for that stuff :)00:48
jeremiahtimeless: I am older than you are and I still do that kind of stuff, though not really. :)00:48
Stskeepswhat browser was in 2007HE? mozilla right?00:49
* Stskeeps wonders why it feels faster.00:50
* timeless sighs00:51
timelessgizmo of course is a typical app, it doesn't know how to spell 'Email' or was it 'E-mail'00:51
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jeremiahStskeeps: What is 2007HE?00:51
jeremiahIs that some version of maemo?00:52
Stskeepsjeremiah: the Hacker Edition of OS2007 for 77000:52
timelessHE=Hacker Edition00:52
jeremiahAh, thanks.00:52
timelessthere are a couple of HEs00:52
timelessthey were basically a poor attempt at what will hopefully be Mer00:52
timelessinstead of community supported, it was subcontracted00:52
qwerty12_N800timeless: "it's not provided by nokia" so why waste time on it? :)00:52
Stskeepsjeremiah: it was that times response to "nokia is fucking X device over"00:52
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jeremiahWhat does Nokia think of Mer?00:53
Stskeepswell, not so much, but yeah00:53
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timelessjeremiah: well, Nokia isn't particularly useful as a monolith00:53
jeremiahNokia must be thrilled you guys have picked up the ball and run with it on your own.00:53
timelessbut the individuals who know about it and who aren't Debian zealots don't seem to mind00:53
timeless(a certain Debian zealot expressed a certain distaste over lunch)00:53
timelessotoh, he mostly blamed them for following Nokia practices00:53
jeremiahdebian zealots? What are those? </sarcasm>00:53
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Stskeepsit was that or wait for debian to finally take care of upstart00:54
Stskeepsthat was the honest choice for choosing ubuntu00:54
timelesspersonally, i subscribe to : let he who is free from sin cast the first stone00:55
Stskeepsjeremiah: Mer started (as a proof of concept) before the announcement that Nokia wouldn't provide Fremantle for the older devices though00:55
* jeremiah casts stones everywhere00:55
timelessjeremiah: typical debian zealot ;-)00:55
Stskeepsjesus, i hate "Operation failed" messages00:56
jeremiahBTW, just joined the lintian mailing list in debian so that I can influence debian's lintian development, and maemo's lintian. :)00:56
timelessooh, KinoTV is showing WestWing00:57
* timeless will just have to figure out what they call it and when00:57
GAN8001timeless, the "let's start from scratch" approach seems to mostly result in things like Mamona.00:58
Stskeeps<3 west wing00:58
* timeless isn't sure what KinoTV is00:58
GAN8001i.e., vaporware.00:58
jeremiahWhat's the West Wing?00:58
jeremiahThe sunset side of a bird?00:58
timelessjeremiah: how little connection have you had w/ USA TV programming?00:58
jeremiahtimeless: Only about 35 years.00:58
timelessThe West Wing won two Golden Globe Awards and 26 Emmy Awards00:59
jeremiahtimeless: But Martin Sheen as President?01:00
Stskeepshe does it astonishing well :P01:00
timelessyou've got a problem w/ that? :)01:00
Stskeepsbetter than charlie sheen as president, which is just plain scray01:00
timelessDid you prefer him as the pesident's friend?01:00
infobot_timeless meant: Did you prefer him as the president's friend?01:00
jeremiahActually Martin Sheen is pretty good, I have to admit.01:00
jeremiahI like the West Wing, shame it is no longer coming out with new episodes though.01:01
Stskeepsnow, how would i go about getting a friggen xterm on os2007he..01:01
jeremiahSeems the Americans prefer real politics to the TV version though.01:01
Stskeepsah. ssh.01:01
jeremiahssh FTW01:01
GAN800Americans prefer Wife Swap01:02
* timeless hasn't seen Wife Swap01:02
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GuySofthey all, does anyone know of a way to sync a nokia n810's gpe suite to a syncML server? (like funambol?)01:03
* qwerty12_N800 's mum is wife swap addict :p 01:03
qwerty12_N800*is a01:03
jeremiahI'd swap my wife, but there is not a processor fast enough.01:03
jeremiahNot enough swap space.01:04
* Stskeeps ponders idly if qole is trolling on the mer thread.01:05
GAN800Wife Swap is surprisingly clever for such a lowbrow show.01:05
jeremiahIs that #mer on freenode?01:05
Stskeepsno, iTT01:05
Stskeepswe do have #mer on freenode though :P01:06
GAN800Dupe two families into thinging they're gonna to go educate the other.01:06
jeremiahooh, must join #mer01:06
GAN800Stskeeps, qole is always trolling01:06
GAN800Don't encourage that channel. :P01:06
GAN800Goddamn spammers. . . .01:06
b-manStskeeps: ...probiblly XD01:07
Stskeepshehe, sorry :P01:07
StskeepsGAN800: i felt like banging my head into the table after reading he wanted us to switch to bash instead of dash..01:07
GAN800Stskeeps, I'd recommend ignoring him if I thought it would result in anything productive.01:08
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thopiekarjeremiah: there?01:09
jeremiahthopiekar: Here?01:09
thopiekar;) I want to upload libsndfile.. should be useful for the others..01:10
jeremiahthopiekar: Will it crash the entire subnet?01:10
thopiekarit doesn't even exists on the repos..01:11
jeremiahthopiekar: What does it do?01:11
jeremiahIn other words, why should it be in maemo?01:11
jeremiahNot that I would ever stop you from putting it in, but I think making a case to your fellow developers is a good practice. :)01:12
thopiekar .. but the maemo extras ass says that i'm using an invalid section : devel ..01:12
jeremiahextras ass?01:12
jeremiahSo the purpose is to read and write .wav files?01:13
jeremiahCan gstreamer already handle that?01:13
thopiekar(needed to build pulseaudio ... )01:14
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thopiekardon't know... shouldn't i upload it if someone would need it too?01:15
jeremiahthopiekar: Sure.01:15
thopiekarok but what about the section...01:15
jeremiahthopiekar: But don't you think that if your software does something that already is done01:15
jeremiahin maemo, that it might be redundant?01:16
thopiekarjeremiah: I know what you mean..01:16
jeremiahI'm just asking, not trying to bum you out or anything.01:16
thopiekarbut what about the section devel which other sectionname should i choose?01:17
* timeless sighs01:18
jeremiahYou know, that is a good question thopiekar.01:18
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timeless<span size='smaller'>This option can be useful for using this application as a baby monitor</span>"01:18
timelessoption useful using...01:18
jeremiahI am not 100% certain, but I would recommend extras, and not system.01:19
thopiekarok thanks..01:19
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Macerneed to find a tv show that doesn't suck01:21
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b-manMacer: watch G4 :D01:29
Macerwtf is g4?01:30
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b-manG4 is a gaming/entertainment channel01:31
b-manlook at ;)01:31
Maceri had sex thursday01:33
Macerpeople who watch stuff like that don't have sex01:33
qwerty12_N800Macer: so you're not a virgin anymore?01:34
doc|home3 days ago? hah01:34
Macerqwerty12_N800: haha01:34
Macerif only wishing made it so01:34
doc|homeMacer: was there anyone else there at the time?01:34
Macerme and the sheep01:34
thopiekarjeremiah: what means Build-Depends-Indep in a control.file?01:34
Maceri forgot who it was that said he was with a girl watching that boring ass movie about gnu01:35
Maceri wish i could run into a girl who knew shit like that but wasn't so butt ugly she had no choice but to stay inside learning how to use a computer01:36
StskeepsMacer: i have met a couple of those01:36
Maceri think so far i have only met 101:36
Macerwho was attractive AND knew what she was talking about when it came to computers :)01:37
Macertoo bad i was seeing someone else at the time01:37
MacerStskeeps: they are far and very very few01:37
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Maceror do you mean the butt ugly ones? those are easy to find :)01:37
Stskeepsnah, the pretty ones who know their way around computers01:37
Macer99.999999% of women on irc are so ugly that they look lik ethey fell out of the sky... and at 2000 feet.. started to roll down the ugly tree getting hit with every.. single.. branch01:38
Stskeepswell that is not true either :P01:38
Macerbeauty is in the eye of the beholder01:39
Maceri'm willing to be money that most irc girls use fake pics01:39
Stskeepsit's mostly the men playing girls :>01:39
Macercomputer dating is not my thing.. i'm old school.. you just bump into a woman and actually.. physically.. talk to her01:40
lcukyou get many passing through your moms basement?01:40
Stskeepshehe, i met my fiancee irl too, that's how it is01:40
Macerlol... even if i did live there... i probably would get more than you lcuk ]01:40
Stskeeps(she has however been on IRC in the past, but stopped before i got to know her)01:41
lcukim happy with one i've got01:41
Macerlcuk: that's what they all say01:41
Macerthey dont call it "settling" for nothing01:41
thopiekarjeremiah: PING01:41
Macermost people settle for a person they are stuck with01:42
Macerbecause they think they can't do better :)01:42
b-maninfobot: ping01:42
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StskeepsMacer: iÃ'm intentionally getting stuck, heh.and i'm happy about that :)01:43
Maceri bet the statistic for men that marry the first woman they sleep with is very high01:43
Macerabout as high as the divorce rate01:43
Stskeepswasn't the first girl i slept with either :)01:43
MacerStskeeps: that is a good thing ;) there are always exceptions01:43
Macerjust think of the long haul.. every moment will be a need to do something01:44
Macerhave child... buy a house.. move from that house to a newer one.. have another child.. buy a car...01:44
Macermow the lawn :)01:44
* Stskeeps watches mer 770 unpack, again.01:44
Macerstill working on that 770 huh?01:45
Stskeepsyeah, of course01:45
Macerah well.. i'm going to watch criminal minds and see if it's worth going on to episode 2.. then i want to watch W.01:45
Stskeepsi get something donated, i don't just let it sit01:45
Macerpersonally.. i thought he wasn't that good of a speaker.. but i loved bush as president :)01:45
Macerobama sure has a lot of time to roam around the country giving speeches and doing q and a type shit01:46
Macershouldn't he be in the oval office figuring out ways to get us out of a rut? :)01:46
derfThere's no brush to clear in Chicago.01:47
Maceri live in Chicago01:47
Macerwe have a lot of trees01:47
derfAnyway, you seem to have an odd conception of what a president's job is.01:48
Macerthe world does in general01:48
Macermost think that the president has all the power in the world to actually create "change"01:48
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Macerexecutive branch enforces law. .that is its purpose01:49
Macerwhy do people always forget the basics?01:49
Macerbut i am sure that he can do much better than going to town halls and asking congressmen to let poor people live with them01:49
Maceri wonder how much it costs taxpayers to let obama go all over the country for these meet america meetings01:50
Macerrealistically speaking.. it isn't congress' job to bail out failing companies.. but let us not open that can of worms :)01:51
derf#maemo is probably not the best place for politics.01:51
Maceryeah.. it isn't.. myb ad :)01:51
Macerit all started somewhere where someone said to watch G401:52
straindWatching G4 is always a bad idea.01:52
Macerstraind: that's what i said!01:53
Maceranyways.. i'm going to check out criminal minds.. later01:53
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* b-man feels so lame now01:54
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* timeless wonders if there's a tool to sort .po keys03:02
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* timeless sighs04:50
timelessmsgid "Unkown"04:51
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jaemgood morning06:01
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* GAN8001 groans @ -community.06:43
GAN8001The Nokia proposed community council . . . :shudder:06:43
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timelE61iWhy am i subscribed there?07:32
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Andrewfblack_Hey bman07:54
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b-manHello, Andrewfblack :D07:54
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b-manqwerty12: do you ever sleep? :P08:35
* b-man passes out from staying up too late08:38
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yukop4hi anyone know how to get radio streams to work on streamtuner08:50
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pupnikyukop4: i used it on 770 - worked for me.  can you rephrase your question?09:08
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yukop4i am trying to get a particular station here in australia to work on streamtuner-it is called pbsfm 106.7-check it out and see if you have any luck09:13
yukop4 is the link09:14
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hahloofftopic any suggestions from cheap (6-700e) laptop which would work well with linux?09:37
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AddisonGreetings benson!  How's it going?09:46
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lcukwho on earth preprogrammed kids to get up and demand breakfast so soon09:49
* lcuk can never get used to this09:49
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* lcukx41 kicks ubuntu09:54
AddisonHey bunanson, give a shout out if you're here.09:54
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AddisonYou should be so lucky lcuk!  No one will let me get them pregnant.  *lol*10:08
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Mikho_would anyone know if it's possible to read from a file descriptor with recv()?10:11
Mikho_im getting a socket operation on non-socket error10:12
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Mikho_the file descriptor is an open serial port connection over bluetooth10:13
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AddisonHeya bun!  Welcome!10:15
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RST38hmoo, lcuk10:22
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lcukx41hiya RST38h10:45
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jyrohi, i am trying to put my python deb package to maemo extras, but i do not find any clear instructions for pure-python packages11:17
jyroi have permissions, and i have read
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jyroi also checked py2deb11:17
jyroam i supposed to upload a ready .deb file OR should i create some kind of source tarball and let the autobuilder build the package?11:19
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lcukx41#ubuntu is like a cattle market11:34
lcukx41mornin qwerty11:34
qwerty12hi lcukx4111:35
* lcukx41 kicks metacity11:37
lcukx41~lart metacity11:37
* infobot_ slaps metacity around with a large trout11:37
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qwerty12gnome-panel & nautilus are my pet hates. nautilus is crashy as shit and gnome-panel freezes up if I have an open sftp connection from nautilus and forget to close it before my internet gets disconnected >.<11:38
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RST38hwhy not uninstall nautilus?11:39
qwerty12It's the only file manager I'm accustomed to now sadly :(11:39
qwerty12Also I think ubuntu-desktop package depends on it (think of it as the equivalently annoying osso-software-version in maemo)11:40
lcukx41i just cant make any new window open up "normal", everything starts minimized11:41
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RST38hqwerty: Try Midnight Commander from console window11:46
RST38hqwerty: In a few weeks you will not feel sorry about uninstalling Nautilus11:46
AStormwho needs nautilus or mc11:47
RST38hmc is different though11:47
AStormmc's too heavy for commandline11:47
AStormand not convenient enough11:47
qwerty12Hehe, yeah, I am thinking of Midnight Commander - to transfer files at least. I transferred a 3.9gb file from my linux partition to my windows one using nautilus and rebooted into windows to find the file was 0b :/11:48
AStormstill, we could use a tablet-oriented wm11:48
RST38hAStorm: BTW, can we have PCManFM hildonized build for Maemo?11:48
AStormfile manager that is11:48
AStormRST38h, if you make one - should be easy11:48
RST38hqwerty: that is not nautilus problem11:48
AStormjust mod the menu11:48
RST38hqwerty: you prbably turned off the system in some premature way11:48
RST38hqwerty: it did not sync your ntfs partition11:49
AStormexactly - didn't sync11:49
qwerty12RST38h, no, I made sure to sync and umount the ntfs partition11:49
RST38hqwert: then it is very strange but still unlikely to ba nau's problem11:49
qwerty12Maybe I'll get one of those ext3 drivers for windows and copy from there :).11:50
* lcukx41 chokes11:50
qwerty12As for PCManFM, it builds under maemo with some odd commenting out I did a long time ago11:50
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qwerty12But to get proper functionality out of it, you need to have tap and hold implemented in it11:51
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lcukx41am i the only one who hates tap n hold11:52
AStormit is useful for drag'n'drop11:52
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AStormbut dnd is horrible11:52
lcukx41different issue11:52
AStormI prefer buttons11:53
lcukx41i hate the delays that come from clicking and getting no response11:53
* RST38h hates clicking and uses mc11:54
AStormdoubletap then?11:54
lcukx41thats just as bad, the delays are there11:54
RST38hnever understood why exactly you need an icon-based fm11:54
AStormtap,tap+hold to drag11:54
lcukx41but it doesnt respond in time11:54
AStormRST38h, it is convenient for marking many files11:54
lcukx41theres no feedback to know you have selected a file11:54
RST38hlast icon based fm that worked for me was NeXTstep Filer, and I turned icons off there =)11:55
RST38hAStorm: Ins+PageDown11:55
lcukx41im not talking icons, im on about list selection, or tree nodes11:55
AStormI meant non-continuous11:55
Corsacthunar \o/11:55
lcukx41Ctrl + click11:55
RST38hAStorm: you still need to peck through the window11:55
lcukx41when its live and responsive it works11:55
RST38hAStorm: very unfomfortable when you need to scroll11:56
AStormRST38h, yes, so?11:56
RST38hIn console based fm, it is Ins / Down / PageDown11:56
AStormI said we need a tablet-made fm11:56
RST38hAh, you mean for the tablet...11:56
Corsacthe original one is correct11:56
Corsacdon't you think?11:56
Corsacok :)11:56
RST38hAStorm: Let me see if there is a NeXT filer clone out there11:57
RST38hAStorm: it may be exactly what we need for the tablet11:57
lcukx41AStorm: something fast and kinetic perhaps :P ;)11:57
RST38hAStorm: very compact and mouse oriented11:57
AStormyes, and maybe modal?11:58
AStormselection mode?11:59
AStormbecause holding shift/ctrl/whatever is not good11:59
AStormor maybe select by default11:59
lcukx41some kind of menu "selection mode"11:59
AStormand have "clear selection" button12:00
lcukx41which adds tickboxes for your selection12:00
AStormlol, why menu?12:00
AStormwhy 1D on a 2D screen?12:00
lcukx41cos most of the time you dont need loads of ticks in the way12:00
timelE61ijyro: autobuilder wants a src-deb.12:01
timelE61iThere are instructions for using dput from there12:01
jyroi see12:01
jyrook, i am guess i will use py2deb or something to make that src-deb12:02
AStormlcukx41, not sure if kinetic is ok12:02
jyrothanks for the info12:02
RST38hAStorm: there is gworkspace =)12:02
RST38himagine THAT on a tablet12:02
AStormI find most kinetic uis fairly unwieldy... missing options etc.12:03
AStormI mean, I tend to miss items12:03
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lcukx41thats down tothe app itself12:03
AStormand engage kinetics instead of clicks and vice versa12:03
lcukx41kinetic just works to make it easy to scroll around12:03
lcukx41nahhh best of both12:03
AStormno, I prefer a wide scrollbar12:03
lcukx41i can kinetic and select from the graffiti, or now in the new one i can kinetic or select from calendar12:04
AStormnot friction12:04
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lcukx41no reason why you cant - a scrollbar gives info and can remain usable12:04
lcukx41i have one in the graffiti view which i use occasionally12:05
lcukx41but scrollbars are bob for touch with thousands of items12:05
lcukx41you waste 100*480 pixels to show a knob 100*4 pixels in size and have to aim for that tiny little thing12:07
lcukx41considering the list itself might take up the entire 800*480 display having to restrict self to only 400 out of 384000 pixels..12:09
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aquatixmorning all12:11
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RST38bisbtw, that xterm with fullscreen bbg kbd - has it ever been packaged?12:12
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qwerty12yeah, I shoved it into my "mod"12:12
RST38bisis it still osso xterm?12:14
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qwerty12it was indeed, last time I checked :)12:14
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thopiekarjeremiah: PING12:17
AStormlcukx41, the trick is to scroll when you reach bottom12:17
AStormkinetic would be ok... but no stupid ice-skating pseudo-friction12:18
RST38bislet us all talk jeremiah into debianizing and repositing modified osso xterm =)12:21
lcukx41doesnt the standard one work?12:22
qwerty12I've added modifications to the packaging of osso-xterm to install the transparent keyboard images but I've done so in a rather dirty way (images get installed to /var/tmp and su - user -c mv moves it to ~/.osso-xterm)12:23
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qwerty12But permissions are correct at least =)12:25
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timelE61iAnd it breaks on mer?12:27
qwerty12Ownership is fine (I've verified that) and as for mer breakage, you're probably right. But it was never intended for Mer ;)12:28
RST38hqwerty: why not install into /usr/share?12:36
qwerty12RST38h, good question, the person who made the fullscreen modification coded it so the images would be loaded from ~/.osso-xterm however and I never thought about changing that12:36
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RST38h"So, the big news? The massive sea change that will change us forever? App stores. Yes the ability for you to find the applications that companies want you to buy, as opposed to you reading about applications online on blogs and finding them yourself"12:40
lcukx41why should an app store be against what you read in a blog?  we have a store already on
* RST38h now really wonders what happens when the "services" bubble pops12:42
RST38hlcuk: Oh, it is not that12:42
RST38hlcuk: The problem here is that a lot of companies looked at Apple iPhone store and sudenly decided that this is the second coming of Christ12:43
RST38hlcuk: And they really, REALLY have to imitate it until it is "too late"12:43
RST38hIn fact, poor Nokia has been trying to imitate it for a long time now - NGage, Nokia Download!, upcoming Ovi Store...12:44
lcukx41well thats where nokia arent going right, its the framework that works, apple have a comfortable easy to use system which just happens to be "simple" to make new apps inside of12:45
lcukx41the store ontop is just the icing12:45
lcukx41sorta like what i was saying with calculators the other day, give customers 10 different calculators to choose from (and a way for some folks to make more) and let the punters choose which they want12:46
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RST38h"easy to use" is not Nokia's way12:47
lcukx41sure it is, its just they havent found their feet with all markets yet12:47
RST38htook Apple just ONE (long and laborous) try12:48
RST38hHow many tries have we seen from Nokia?12:48
RST38hoh, shit, ntfs has not been unmounted properly =( gotta reboot12:50
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RST38hmuch better12:51
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RST38hlcuk: still here?13:05
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lcukx41kinda, just hacking up a lung and readin slash13:06
RST38hlcuk: Let me take you even farther away from completing liqbase:
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lcukx41RST38h: you wont tempt me with your cubes, theres too many of samy things to make it easy. ive implemented one of those in windows before now13:08
lcukx41and i think they are awful on your eyes13:08
RST38hAt least I had to try =)13:08
RST38h(no, wouldn't use something like that myself)13:09
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lcukx41rst38h, the file select for the book reader in liqbase currently shows a 1d version thereof13:10
* lcukx41 wanted it to work better than it did13:10
* RST38h is surprised seeing 1000+ file manager projects on sourceforge13:10
lcukx41yeah common things13:11
RST38hmost of them seem to be done in PHP or Perl though13:11
aquatixthat's a tad much13:11
RST38hit is, it is...13:11
aquatixi can imagine someone wanting a two-pane gui one13:11
qwerty12Best is :>13:11
RST38hlooking for a nextstep-like one that would hildonize well13:11
aquatixlike, mc13:11
aquatixbut that's about it :)13:11
lcukx41directory opus.13:11
RST38haquatix: A lot of people use Windows Commander13:11
lcukx41all file managers have to compare to it13:11
* aquatix used it too13:11
lcukx41and are currently lacking13:11
lcukx41i know mc is similar13:12
aquatixRST38h: total commander it's called nowadays :)13:12
RST38haquatix: so, yes, there ARE sad specimen who want two pane graphical manager13:12
RST38haquatix: ah, whatever that shit is called13:12
lcukx41rst dopus is 2 pane13:12
RST38hcan't stand it13:12
aquatixwell, i kinda like being able to do so; i rather like mc13:12
RST38hlcuk: The old Opus of Amiga fame? Yes13:12
RST38haquatix: I use FAR on Windows.13:12
lcukx41rst, yeah13:13
aquatixRST38h: that's a bit limited in width though13:13
lcukx41actually, dopus had feature creep and became a new explorer ;)13:13
qwerty12RST38h, only reason I had to use FAR was SEFP :>13:14
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lcukx41   <<< dopus 413:15
lcukx41there is a dopus 9 now, something was lost in translation13:15
aquatixlcukx41: ick13:15
qwerty12eurgh. the 90's can keep that.13:16
aquatixlooks cluttery13:16
aquatixqwerty12: indeed13:16
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lcukx41aquatix: configurable as much as required13:16
lcukx41you could add or remove or setup buttons as required13:16
qwerty12Is there an option to make it less fugly?13:16
aquatixi want hotkeys, no buttons :)13:16
aquatixqwerty12: build it with something else than that motiv-like toolkit :)13:17
qwerty12aquatix, you first :P :)13:17
aquatixno thanks13:17
aquatixi have mc13:17
aquatixand the cli13:17
aquatixand Thunar now and then13:17
aquatixthat suffices for me :)13:17
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lcukx41and the scent of rms :P13:18
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timelE61iWhat's cooking?13:19
lcukx41bacon of course13:20
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* qwerty12 puts away the ganja13:21
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RST38hDOpus9 screenshots:
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qwerty12Anyone happen to know a lightweight music player that uses mplayer as its backend? Built a kernel with ssvb's bluetooth fifo patch and would like try it out.13:29
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qwerty12Thanks but it uses gstreamer, not mplayer13:31
timelE61iYouamp refused to install on my n80013:32
lbtif I upload to diablo-extras-builder where should I find the log? I looked here
qwerty12Uploaded to the free queue?13:34
lbtI should have paid more attention last time :)13:34
lbtas per
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thopiekar1jeremiah: ping13:34
* qwerty12 looks at
lbtwhich may be wrong13:34
lcukx41qwerty, the new mafw should be able to use either gstreamer or mplayer as its backend, but obviously that doesnt help you now13:34
qwerty12lcukx41, good info to know for the future :)13:34
lcukx41right now, the simplest music player which uses mplayer is mplayer itself :P13:34
lbtyep - looked there last night.... no sign13:34
ssvbqwerty12: if you just want to check bluetooth/a2dp cpu load and avoid any other overhead, you can use aplay: 'aplay -D bluetooth yourmusicfile.wav'13:35
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lcukx41hiya ssvb13:35
ssvbqwerty12: aplay is included in alsa-utils package and is easy to compile13:35
qwerty12ssvb, got it, thanks13:35
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lbtqwerty12:  I got this when I ran dput last night...
ssvbqwerty12: the most clean test is even to put test wav file to a ramdisk in order to also avoid flash reading related activity13:40
qwerty12lbt, seems correct... is your /etc/ configured correctly?13:41
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qwerty12ssvb, I'm not so much interested in benchmarking it, more like a quick observation of "is it quicker" :) (and I'm sure it will be anyway :))13:42
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slonopotamuslcukx41, what's x41? thinkad?13:44
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infobot_slonopotamus meant: lcukx41, what's x41? thinkpad?13:44
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qwerty12lbt, btw, you don't have to sign your uploads anymore13:44
ssvbqwerty12: it would be hard to see because you usually have mmc/flash reading overhead, audio codec (mp3 decoding) overhead, sbc encoding overhead, bluetooth driver overhead and probably something else I have missed to mention, they all sum up to quite a noticeable cpu usage13:44
lbtah - think I have it....13:45
lbtthe old HOWTO says : dput -f diablo-extras-builder *.changes13:45
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ssvbqwerty12: optimizing just one of these part will have less visible impacto on overall improvement, but that it not an excuse not to do anything :)13:45
lbtand I had other .changes files so I only did the armel one, not the _source one <blush>13:46
lcukx41slonopotamus: yeah touchscreen jobby (well, wacom based)13:46
qwerty12ssvb, :)13:47
ssvbqwerty12: sorry for the typos13:47
qwerty12why apologise? /me makes them quite a lot :)13:47
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* RST38h couldn't figure out why the racing car does not accelerate. Until he figured out that auto-fire was enabled13:57
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herziX-Fade: do you know who's responsible for
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timelE61iherzi: what's wrong w/ it?14:35
timelE61i(yes, i know, what's right w/ it would be a shorter list)14:36
herzithe admin part for the extra tabs stuff doesn't seem to work14:36
herzii get "page not found"14:37
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timelE61iPlease walk me through by link name14:45
timelE61iNote that bugs belong in in websites garage14:45
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herzitimelE61i: I visit this page:
herziand click on "Extra Tabs" (in the "Tool Admin" box)15:11
herziwhich takes me to
herziwhich displays "page not found"15:11
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herziI only have the tracker, frs and stats modules enabled, to I need another module for it?15:12
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AStormcould someone try a port of opentyrian to n810?15:33
qwerty12_N800hasn't it already been done (by pupnik afaik)?15:33
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Macerthese ice genies in the shuttle k45s are awesome15:34
RST38hit is done but the controls are erratic15:34
Maceri think i might build a couple more of these things15:34
* Macer pictures a fleet of shuttle boxen15:35
AStormRST38h, so, nobody cared to do a normal port to n810?15:35
Macerscrew that...i need to start working on making a small rackmount15:35
AStormit is sdl, so should work15:35
AStormgimme a link if it's there15:36
AStorm(less boredom on train)15:37
pupnikcontrols need work15:38
qwerty12_N800Someone may fix it if the source is there :)15:39
lbtshopper 0.5 is in extras-devel - I'd appreciate any testing/comments. The gesturing and finger scrolling may need a bit of tuning.15:40
pupniklbt.  what does shopper do?15:43
lbtIt's a shopping list application - a ticklist15:44
lbtMy other half wanted one :)15:44
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lcukx41heh david, its great finding an excuse to tinker in virtual garage15:45
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lbtit is indeed... :)15:46
lcukx41lbt, whats the footprint of shopper now15:46
RST38hAStorm: Well, you will be the first to fix it :)15:46
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lcukx41cos doesnt it require qt ontop15:46
lcukx41how large is it now? (i assume once we have it it will be useful for other qt things)15:47
lbtit's only 100k15:47
lcukx41for qt?15:47
timelE61iherzi: indeed... :(15:47
lbterr no15:47
timelE61iit used to work15:47
lbtQt is many Mb15:47
lcukx41your shopper is a gateway drug to larger memory devices15:47
herzitimelE61i: will report a bug then15:47
lbtwell, it should only use some Qt libraries15:48
lbtQt is modular15:48
herzitimelE61i: you want to be CC'ed? then mention your email please15:48
timelE61isOrry, i fell asleep15:48
lbtbut I doubt my dependency list is tuned15:48
timelE61iNah, i'll live w/o the mail15:48
lcukx41lbt well i thought that, and i tried to find a minimal source build (core qt widget + label + textbox for instance)15:48
lcukx41but it had so much stuff that said it was requiring i couldnt cut through it all15:49
lbtyou want qt-maemo-example-0.115:49
* lcukx41 would be happily using qt foundations15:49
lcukx41no, not just a hello world, i meant clean cruft free source building of the qt system15:49
lcukx41the seed components so to speak15:50
lbtthat is the debian minimal build15:50
lbtso there is a build-dep15:50
lbton qt4-dev15:50
lcukx41ill have another look then when i get a machine with more horsepower to work from15:51
lbtit's no more demanding than gtk15:51
lcukx41demanding in building and compilation15:51
lcukx41compiling a hello world in c++ takes 10x longer than c15:52
timelE61ilBt: fwiw... Many years ago, i built mozilla (firefox happened later) from scratch daily15:52
lbtyes.... but Qt == gtk and > C15:52
timelE61iThis included building gtk or qt depending on the mozilla15:53
lcukx41qt != gtk15:53
timelE61iIt didn't hurt my build times much to build gtk15:53
herzitimelE61i: MB#4141 in case you want to subscribe15:53
lbtbuilding gtk libraries or gtk version of moz?15:53
timelE61iBut for qt, i had to save the qt binaries if i wanted to build moz in reasonable times15:53
timelE61iLbt: i built gtk first, then moz against my gtk15:54
timelE61iOr qt first and then moz against my qt15:54
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lbtoh yes, Qt is bigger than gtk15:54
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timelE61iThis was 2000/200115:54
lbtOTOH given the gtk-dev and qt-dev15:54
lcukx41it shouldnt be though :P you can build an os with a core ~ 10 widgets15:54
lbtthen building an app against either is comparable15:54
timelE61iI had a 25mb quota'd homedir15:55
lbtwell, maybe in Gentoo15:55
timelE61iSo i couldn't really keep gecko or similar15:55
timelE61iInstead, i downloaded everything to /tmp15:55
timelE61iAnd built there daily15:55
timelE61iFrom scratch. @4am the boxes rebooted and emptied /tmp15:56
AStormpupnik, can't bind any random letters for them? (n810)15:56
lbtalthough I intended to compare qt-shopper and gtk-shopper - not building libqt* and libgtk*15:56
lcukx41at 3:59 rename /tmp to something else ;)15:56
AStorm(wrt opentyrian)15:56
GAN800Stskeeps, update-description for bootmenu? :P15:57
timelE61ilcuk: quota. I couldn't put it anywhere15:57
timelE61iCpu was cheap15:57
lcukx41:'( i need more cpu15:57
timelE61iAnyway, build times for gecko didn't really change if i changed toolkits15:57
lbtthat's what I meant :)15:57
timelE61iIt was only the toolkit build times that differed15:58
* timelE61i misses uni resources15:58
pupnikAStorm: dont remember15:58
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AStormif I beat it in 6h... on dpad...16:00
AStormon Normal...16:01
pupnikyou did?16:01
AStormI did it with a joystick a long time ago16:02
AStormso why not dpad16:02
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pupnikshould work with dpad16:02
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AStormsome levels are deadly, very much like those japanese "pattern shooters"16:04
* AStorm hints at Holes16:04
AStormwell, ep.1 only has deadly Holes bonus level16:06
AStormnow, ep. 3... the final Gencore one (can't remember) is harder than this16:07
AStormor was that ep. 416:08
pupnikastorm thats great that you know about this game16:09
pupnikspeed needs improving too, no...16:09
RST38hIt means AStorm will be able to fix the controls?16:09
RST38hpupnik: hey, speed is quite ok! =)16:09
RST38h(any faster and they will kill me!)16:09
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AStormRST38h, sure, I will16:17
AStormI know SDL well16:17
AStormwhat's wrong abt. controls btw16:17
AStormsdl not recognizing some keys?16:19
RST38hwell, the keyboard is very sluggish )especially external one) and n810 keyboard isn't suitable for gaming anyway16:20
RST38hand the "mouse" (i.e. touch) is just completely erratic16:20
AStormso you say that sdl event loop is using gettimeofday? ;)16:21
AStormthat has to be fixed16:21
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AStormhmm, might be that opentyrian is not using sdl event queue, instead polling16:22
AStormthat's bound to be slow16:22
AStormfixable though16:22
AStormblah, I get 2 KB/s dl speed here16:23
AStormnow, touch is expected to be16:23
AStormbecause SDL only supports relative input16:23
AStormwould need some specific hack16:24
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AStormunless the speed improves, the dl will take some hours16:26
timelE61irst: can you grep -r first.last ~/ ?16:27
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* lcukx41 curses papercuts from laptops16:36
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crashanddie"Don't fix something that isn't broken" actually means: Working computer hardware is a lot like an erect penis. It stays up as long as you don't fuck with it.16:43
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timelE61icrash: reading /. On bgp?17:00
crashanddietimelE61i, yup17:01
timelE61iit was better w/ more lines of context :)17:02
crashanddieBeen thinking about something17:14
crashanddieWould you buy a £80 hard drive, 250Gig, that contained every single Stargate episode? SG1, SGA, and every movie?17:14
qwerty12_N800No. the stargate would put me off.17:15
crashanddieyeah but you've got shit tastes anyway, so your opinion doesn't count17:15
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lcukcrashanddie, they would have to pay me to dispose of the crap on that harddrive17:20
crashanddieoh, and there goes my blackberry rebooting without warning :D17:22
mavhcsg1's consistantly ok, never great, doesn't normally suck, sga went to sucksville and never returned though17:23
mavhccrashanddie: what about stargate infinity17:23
crashanddiesgi is shit17:23
qwerty12_N800crashanddie: after using a tablet, that surprises you? :)17:23
crashanddieqwerty12_N800, did my statement look surprised?17:23
crashanddiemavhc, actually I quite like sga17:24
lcukcrashanddie, its no wonder your blackberries shrivveled and fell off - too much stargate17:24
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* b-man freaks out when he sees someone posing as him on the irc logs :O - if you see someone with the username "bman_" that's not me17:32
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lcukyes it was17:40
lcukis it the g4 posting you are most afraid of b-man17:40
lcuklast night you admitting to watching g417:41
lcukor whatever the show was17:41
lcukthat was you as bman_17:42
b-manthat was me, not bman_17:42
lcukwhats bman_ been saying then17:43
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crashanddiealways better to be afraid of b-man rather than just a man, it's more specific17:45
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b-maninfobot: nuke bman_17:53
* infobot_ prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at bman_ ... B☢☢M!17:53
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* Stskeeps watches gf play with 77018:22
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lcukStskeeps, buy her a toy that vibrates next time18:25
qwerty12a mobile phone?18:25
lcukcould do, but she might get some missed calls18:25
ToyKeeperI doubt she'd *miss* the calls...18:26
lcukwell if she did answer them, it would be a bit echoey18:27
ToyKeeperShe might miss getting calls if the phone didn't ring often enough...18:27
* lcuk apologises for crudeness18:27
* ToyKeeper was summoned by a blue tab18:28
lcukyou have vibrators set as a keyword?18:29
lcuklol, almost as good as my bacon highlight18:29
ToyKeeperBecause some people haven't figured out tab completion yet, and are too lazy to type my full nick.18:29
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cstruttonwhere does a noob go for help setting up sbrsh19:40
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crashanddie_Gtalk + video works astonishingly well20:30
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cstruttoncan anyone point me to sbrsh setup help??20:37
timelE61ihey, does anyone here know tim teulings?20:38
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gnutonHei guys20:42
gnutonWhere is the Maemo Mame package?20:43
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gnutonWhy isn't anymore in Extras-Devel?20:43
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RST38hShit, MicroB is *SLOW*21:05
RST38hAnd it is not even loading data, just laying it out21:06
luke-jryeah, I'm very tempted to move to KDE21:06
luke-jrbut I'm scared it won't work21:06
aquatixheh, talking of slow ;)21:06
luke-jraquatix: MicroB is Gecko, IIRC21:07
luke-jrso any other browser will inherently be faster21:07
luke-jrbecause Gecko is a slow piece of crap21:07
qwerty12_N800RST38h: browserd source in garage is begging you to fix it :)21:07
luke-jractually, Arora might be more in line for N81021:07
luke-jrbtw, is there anyone from Nokia here?21:07
RST38hqwerty: Browserd has to be abolished not fixed21:07
luke-jrI finally found my old Zaurus C76021:07
qwerty12_N800RST38h: good point21:08
luke-jrand I need to tell them how poorly the N810 design sucks in comparison :/21:08
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RST38hqwerty: As I said before, it shaves a couple of seconds off the initial load time, that is all21:08
luke-jrSL-C760's keyboard/design is SO much nicer21:08
aquatixi'm curious to how much faster a recent gecko engine will be21:08
aquatixas the one in diablo is from right before the optimalisations21:08
luke-jraquatix: WebKit and KHTML are the future21:08
aquatixwhatever dude :)21:08
* aquatix likes competition21:08
qwerty12_N800RST38h: yeah, I'm not a fan21:09
luke-jrOpera should open up Presto21:09
aquatixi'm not defending gecko per-se21:09
luke-jrthen we can have Presto vs WebKit21:09
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ShadowJKIt's not the fastest CPU wise, but I find the memory use worse than the CPU use21:09
luke-jrany chance I can merge my N810 with my SL-C760?21:09
luke-jreg, move the N810 internals into the SL-C760 shell?21:10
aquatixluke-jr: just use a big enough hammer21:10
RST38haquatix: There is Fennec for N810. And it is said to suck.21:10
luke-jraquatix: and have it usable, obviously -.-21:10
aquatixi think that's not quite possible21:10
zshi, where can i find source code of that program which is responsible for searching bluetooth devices?21:10
lcukanything is possible21:10
aquatixor the motherboard should miraculously fit21:10
RST38hShadowJK: This is always true for embedded CPUs21:10
luke-jraquatix: I think it's possible21:10
aquatixRST38h: yep21:10
ShadowJKRST38h, eh?21:11
aquatixluke-jr: would certainly be an interesting project21:11
RST38hShadowJK: Because the memory used runs at 60-160MHz click21:11
luke-jrthe C760's bottom half is thicker than the entire N81021:11
RST38hShadowJK: And cache is usually small21:11
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luke-jraquatix: know anyone who might be willing to fund it? XD21:11
* lcuk is still waiting to see mer on a lighter21:11
aquatixluke-jr: nope, sorry :)21:11
qwerty12_N800or a vodka bottle21:11
aquatixlcuk: just wait for lighters with a decent cpu21:11
RST38hShadowJK: So, yes, your bottleneck is usually not the CPU (even if it is a lowly ARM9) but memory21:11
ShadowJKRST38h, What I mean is that browserd spends more time waiting on swap than it spends actually executing code on the CPU21:11
RST38hAh, that21:11
lcukluke-jr, funding? you have an n8x0, and an SL-C76021:11
RST38hProbably also true21:12
torkianoany repo to install arora?21:12
ShadowJKand swap to flash is bloody slow :)21:12
lcukfor the glory21:12
aquatixlcuk: indeed :)21:12
* RST38h considers disabling swap21:12
luke-jrlcuk: I got the C760 years ago21:12
luke-jrlcuk: I could barely afford my <$200 N81021:12
lcukso you should know how to strip it down and reassemble it with your eyes shut21:12
luke-jrI can't afford to take it apart21:12
ShadowJKSpeaking of, firefox just crashed. yay for sessionsaver21:12
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RST38hFF3 started doing it often recently21:12
lcukand self respecting geek disassembles his hardware after the warranty expires.  where else would we get spare screws for our new devices from..21:13
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ShadowJKRST38h, disable swap? eh? you'll just find it constantly rebooting itself when it runs out of ram...21:13
luke-jrlcuk: I bought it for productive use21:13
* RST38h just had to disassemble a BBK DVR21:13
RST38hI am absolutely NOT DOING IT AGAIN21:13
lcukand gutting it and rehoming it in a similar purposed model ISN'T productive?21:13
RST38hShadow: Does not happen with me21:13
crashanddie_finding trouble bying a sub $200 device?21:13
luke-jrlcuk: no21:14
infobot_crashanddie_ meant: finding trouble buying a sub $200 device?21:14
ShadowJKRST38h, you mean it actually managed to kill browserd eventually?21:14
* qwerty12_N800 fucked up his k750i disassembling it. ofc, i didn't know what i was doing...21:14
lcukcrashanddie_, i would find trouble buying a packet of sweets21:14
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RST38hShadow: No, I mean my tablet never rebooted like that21:14
luke-jrthe SL-C760's LCD slot is exactly the right size for the N810's LCD21:14
crashanddie_surely anyone with enough motivation can afford about anything sub $2k21:14
RST38hShadow: Browserd did crash a few times21:14
lcukluke-jr, there you go then21:14
timelE61ishadow: who's enabling swap?21:14
lcukmakes life easier and saves you using the circular saw21:14
timelE61iIt's off out of the box21:15
luke-jrwell, if anyone wants to mail me their broken N810, I'll try it <.<21:15
ShadowJKtimelE61i, I can't understand how people can actually use it without swap :-)21:15
crashanddie_you guys are too lazy, no real hardcore linux users21:15
* RST38h sneers at "linux users"21:15
lcuklol, i can read the fark article now: "broken n810 transposed into SL-C760 - still broken"21:15
luke-jrlcuk: LOL21:15
crashanddie_real men swap the RAM sticks, no need for a so-called "swap" partition21:15
luke-jrI'm assuming I can fix it while moving it21:15
lcukyou have to start with working parts or its futile21:16
lcukno chance21:16
RST38hreal operating systems swap to perforated tape.21:16
crashanddie_RST38h, aye commander21:16
timelE61ishadow: you're supposed to learn to live w/in your means21:16
lcukreal computers are held together with duct tape21:16
timelE61ihasn't the global recession taught you anything?21:16
* crashanddie_ senses the kraken post21:16
luke-jrlcuk: broken machine != broken parts21:16
lcuki only get that impression when talking to you seb21:17
ShadowJKI did /etc/init.d/tablet-browser stop ; /etc/init.d/tablet-browser start this morning after it had grown to use about 200 megs of swap... Without swap I guess it would have randomly killed some app, rebooted, or killed browsed at some very inconvenient time...21:17
crashanddie_lcuk, fuck off21:17
RST38hShadow: Judging from htop, microb isn't using swap at the moment but it is still dead slow21:17
timelE61iluke-jr: btw, your attitude is hardly inviting to nokia employees21:17
crashanddie_lcuk, at least I don't go 3/4 through a project and then go "oh fuck, I need that"21:17
lcukits there, its just like an appendix21:18
GAN8001aquatix, lots faster.21:18
GAN8001aquatix, js will be orders of magnitude faster.21:18
lcukor like a powervr core21:18
crashanddie_timelE61i, he's a skywalker, more arrogant, and more violent21:18
luke-jrtimelE61i: eh?21:18
GAN8001and memory usage will go way down.21:18
luke-jrtimelE61i: they're the one making the money off them; better usability will benefit them more than ti will me :p21:18
ShadowJKtimelE61i, well that's another problem, seems like closing sites doesn't actually free up and memory... They did some major work on this for ff3, but I guess the microb snapshot of gecko must be from before that?21:19
GAN8001Hardware guys don't hang out here.21:19
GAN8001ShadowJK, alpha 1.21:19
luke-jrthat's probably a good point21:19
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aquatixGAN8001: yeah, my idea21:19
timelE61ishadow: the snapshot is about 2yrs old21:20
aquatixi hope an updated gecko/microb will be here soonish21:20
GAN8001aquatix, sadly the only way we're going to see that upgrade is with Mer.21:20
aquatixbut i've been hoping that for a year21:20
ShadowJKso it just grows and grows 'til the point where it after a day when you've been using the tablet actively can have 300 meg footprint just to display the offline google search page and nothing else :)21:20
timelE61iAnd you're mostly confused anyway21:20
luke-jrso is there any way to give a suggestion to the hardware guys?21:21
qwerty12_N800You know what would be nice? if the microb-svn actually did something called working in diablo.21:21
timelE61iLuke: given that the software guys can't21:21
timelE61iand given that this is a community, not a whipping board21:21
lcuk"waiting for"21:21
luke-jrtimelE61i: you mean Nokia's software guys can't talk to Nokia's hardware guys? :/21:21
timelE61iTry nokia-care21:21
timelE61iIt should be a toll free call21:21
* luke-jr isn't sure he has working toll-free service :p21:22
timelE61iAnd as a customer, you've paid for the right to complain to *them*21:22
luke-jrI don't want to complain so much as ensure the next generation models have it fixed21:22
GAN8001luke-jr, call Nokia Care.21:22
timelE61ilUke: skype wil let you call the us #21:22
RST38hluke: it won't.21:22
lcuki thought irc was designed specifically to give common people an open access right to complain about anything anywhere21:22
RST38hso, relax and enjoy the plunger.21:22
lcukor has the common misconception just spread worldwide21:22
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timelE61ilcuk:'not if it's supposed to build a community21:23
luke-jrGAN8001: does Nokia Care actually pay attention to input?21:23
GAN8001luke-jr, the next generation models are already built.21:23
qwerty12_N800lcuk: only works if someone with authority is *listening*21:23
GAN8001luke-jr, in aggregate, yes.21:23
luke-jrGAN8001: the one after than, then21:23
timelE61iI'm fairly close to unsubscribing from maemo-com and leaving this channel21:23
ShadowJKlcuk, about browserd's speed, if you've got a *nix box you can run kazehakase over remote X with display on tablet and it's faster :-)21:23
timelE61iEither keep your riff-raff tame, or i go21:23
timelE61iShadow: useless claim21:24
GAN8001timelE61i, /ignore. :)21:24
* lcuk barely notices trolls :S21:24
timelE61iYour nix box is almost certainly faster21:24
* GAN8001 isn't really sure what's to complain about on -community.21:24
ShadowJKYeah but it has brutal network bottleneck to overcome21:24
timelE61iI had a petium 233 or something which ran gecko-photon faster in photon on my audrey than the native browser21:24
timelE61iShadow: compression21:25
ShadowJKfirefox actually ends up slower over remote X than microb locally...21:25
timelE61itry fennec?21:25
timelE61i(over remote)21:26
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* Stskeeps yawns21:26
timelE61iluke: i wouldn't recommend nokia care if i didn't know it was listened to21:26
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timelE61ihowever, hardware is typically frozen years in advance of product ship21:27
ShadowJKhm, re fennec, I have this vague memory reading somewhere that the install for tablet did something strange...21:27
timelE61iAnd before the software team actually gets it21:27
timelE61iShadow: i mean over x, not local install :)21:28
qwerty12_N800ShadowJK: install the ~22MB (deb size) xulrunner? :)21:28
ShadowJKI was just trying to remember what it was, if it's going to do something similarily evil, the evil which I do not currently remember, to my desktop21:28
GAN800Fennec should be in Extras soon.21:29
timelE61idon't use debs21:29
timelE61iUse ~/desktop installs21:29
timelE61iDebs are for people who like to break their systems21:29
RST38hGAN: BTW, those 22MB+ installs are becoming unrealistic lately21:29
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RST38hGAN: With / being almost completely full21:30
ShadowJKdeb wouldn't install on my desktop anyway...21:30
GAN800RST38h, why are you telling me?21:30
* timelE61i sighs21:30
GAN800It seems likely that the RX-51 will have a big /.21:30
* timelE61i waits for 26mb of wesnoth to d/l21:31
lcukrx-51 includes cowboy neal?21:31
lcukhes the biggest at /.21:31
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ShadowJKGAN800, heh. I thought "big slashdot? No.. Big / ., no more going through fn key?" before realizing what you meant21:31
RST38hGAN: I am telling you because you have said Fennec will be in the extras soon21:33
RST38hBut I can just as well tell it everybody of course21:33
humeanyone got advice on how to copy a rather large file to the N800? it crashes when I use scp, and same using USB... (file is 300 MB)21:33
* GAN800 neither develops, packages, nor ships Fennec.21:33
timelE61ihume: mmc's are removable21:34
timelE61iRemove one21:34
timelE61iUse a dedicated reader21:34
ShadowJKAre you sure you aren't copying to the tiny root flash?21:34
humetimelE61i, ok...just don't hava a reader in the computer for the mmc...21:34
lcukwhat part crashes21:34
lcukand what error21:34
RST38hGAN: This is a general comment, not Fennec related21:35
timelE61iThey cost around 15pick a currency21:35
qwerty12_N800ShadowJK: presumably, not over usb21:35
* GAN800 boots from SD.21:35
humewell....the file copy stalls, then then N800 either just hangs or reboots by itself21:35
lcuktimelE61i, late on a sunday night i dont think any amount of currency will get you one21:35
RST38hGAN: Basically, we need some way to move /usr/share to mmc1/2 without advanced hacking21:35
humeShadow__X, no, to a large removable one21:35
RST38hBooting from SD *is* hacking21:35
timelE61ilcuk: i think i bought my latest sunday morning in Bordeaux, FR21:36
humelcuk, i get no error msgs21:36
GAN800RST38h, yes, because that solution is so wonderfully stable.21:36
Stskeepswe need -sane- sd cloning. eos21:36
lcukhume, which end is initiating the copy - push from desktop->800 or the other way round21:36
lcuk+1 sts21:36
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humelcuk, push, i run scp from the desktop21:36
lcuktimelE61i, granted daytimes are fine21:36
timelE61iZipsplit or an equiv21:37
lcukis it triggering the watchdog?21:37
lcuktry pulling?21:37
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timelE61iOr a reasumable transfer protocol+client21:37
humelcuk, watchdog? let me try pulling....21:37
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timelE61iAre there any working bittorrent clients?21:39
timelE61iYou could use bittorrent ;)21:39
GAN800Transmission is in Extras.21:40
lcukdidnt the winamp guys make some sort of localized secure invite only file sharing thing that was simple and usable21:40
* timelE61i shrugs21:40
timelE61ithis does sound like the right problem21:41
GAN800Somebody needs to put together a multiboot control panel and a nice cloning wizard.21:41
timelE61iGan: jX has some easy way to deal w/ clobne21:41
timelE61i...Clones, when he tests for me, he uses fresh clones21:41
GAN800penguinbait's wizards might be good if they didn't feel so hackish.21:42
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ShadowJKheh.. I thought with the very nice DPI of the N810's display, it would take some years before people managed to start waste the sceenspace with offensively huge UI fluff, but I see the fennec people are getting near :)21:44
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lcukhume, hows it going21:46
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* timelE61i shrugs21:49
timelE61ithe fennec ui is better than Maemo ui21:49
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timelE61iSadly fennec atm on the n800 isn't fast enough21:49
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* lcuk idly toys with html parsing and liqbase cells21:50
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ShadowJKin the remote X scenario, loading a webpage seems very fast with fennec.. But the UI is... well, painful. It was a struggle to even enter the URL...21:50
* timelE61i slowly removes qt4 to make space21:50
lcuktimelE61i, on the tablet?21:50
timelE61ishadow: it isn't an optimized use case21:51
ShadowJKcertainly :)21:51
timelE61iLcuk: this n800 doesn't have space for games21:51
lcuknot surprised, i thought i pushed the boat putting all the dev stuff on mine21:51
ShadowJKThough it's amusing that it's the same UI elements that are slow as in firefox, and same UI elements that are slow when firefox is being slow on desktop :)21:52
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* timelE61i shrugs21:52
ShadowJKlol, "Enable Plugins - Make websites annoying"21:52
* ShadowJK claps21:52
timelE61iif you haven't profiled it, you don't know why it's slow21:52
ShadowJKThat is true21:53
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lcukreading profile logs properly can be an art in itself21:54
timelE61ithere is some stuff which last i checked wasn't cached21:54
timelE61i(event handlers iirc)21:54
timelE61iIf i'm right, i believe there's current work to fix that21:54
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ShadowJKIt's interesting that popping up the rectangle with suggestions when you type the URL was a half-minute task for fennec, with individual elements taking 1-5 seconds. Firefox does this too, but it's less noticeable if you have a fast PC, on my current PC it's a barely perceptible increase in latency most of the time21:56
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timelE61ithere's work to change how that works21:57
timelE61iIirc atm it's semi or fully sync21:57
timelE61iAnd probably main thread21:58
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* ShadowJK runs firefox with --sync anyway.. saves about 10 crashes a day :-)21:58
ShadowJKI have no idea how to make a useful gdb backtrace of X11 errors though21:58
timelE61ib gdk_x_error22:00
timelE61iW/ symbols for every .so in gecko22:00
timelE61iIt shouldn't save crashes22:00
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ShadowJKThe left/right dragging performs much better than the suggestions box, like subsecond per update, you can tell it's a movement even22:00
timelE61iBut if you're running sync, you have no business complaiining about latency22:01
timelE61iShadow: the box is a db access which wasn't designed for fennec22:01
timelE61iIt's being fixed22:01
timelE61iMan, wesnoth is a pid22:01
ShadowJK--sync masks the latency actually :-)22:02
ShadowJKWhen everything is a bit slow22:02
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RST38hWGET needs 1.9MB disk space. Weird.22:02
timelE61iWesnoth pulls in qt4, and an 8mb ttf package22:03
timelE61i"System storage" or "System Storage"?22:03
timelE61iI noticed i'm inconsistent in the ver i have on this n80022:04
timelE61iI think the former22:04
timelE61iIt appears in ham and the memory cpl and filemanager22:04
qwerty12_N800RST38h: especially odd considering the wget binary is 199kb... the locale files & docs (which get purged)?22:06
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torkianoanyone with problems with gtalk connection in diablo? I have a lot of disconnections22:09
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timelE61itorkiano: so do i22:11
* timelE61i considers it normal22:11
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RST38hqwerty: Dunno, afraid to install22:16
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qwerty12_N800apt-get clean ; apt-get autoremove not able to  bring back a bit of space? :)22:17
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RST38hno idea, just installed Tear22:23
RST38hnot much faster than microb though =(22:23
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timelE61irst: good22:32
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humelcuk, sorry for not responding....trying to pull while watchin a movie.:)..22:56
humeon tv22:56
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* timelE61i frowns23:22
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timelE61ithe description for deb dpkg "libcst" sucks23:23
humelcuk, seems to just stall... no output. I am scp-ing from the xterm on tne n800, pulling the file.23:23
lcukfeh, wait until tomorrow and get a local reader as timelE61i suggested earlier then ;)23:25
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ShadowJKRST38h, tear seems much faster to me?23:28
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ShadowJKthough maximizer button only works for me if I have keyboard out23:35
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