IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2009-02-20

jaemvery, *very* carefully00:00
Macerwell.. the gui install of kubuntu is running on the thing.. so it can't be all that bad00:00
jaemtry ArchLinux :P00:00
jaemit would be a lot slimmer, esp with KDE00:00
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jaem*buntu isn't that bad, but compared to Arch, it seems bloated00:01
Macerjaem: but it is an easy install.. was going to use gentoo on it but just want to see what it can do first00:01
jaemmacer: I've heard Arch called "Gentoo without the Gentoo", but it's not that bad00:02
jaemit takes a git of work to set up, but their goal is simplicity (as in technical elegance, not newbie-friendliness), so if you know Linux well, it's no big deal00:02
Macerheh.. well.. i want to see if this thing can run kde400:02
infobot_jaem meant: it takes a bit of work to set up, but their goal is simplicity (as in technical elegance, not newbie-friendliness), so if you know Linux well, it's no big deal00:02
jaemArch has that00:03
Maceri was going to use it as a very small linux desktop00:03
jaemand you can get a much slimmer install of it than with Kubuntu00:03
Macerit's ok. it has a 100G hd ;)00:03
Maceri'm not hurting on space00:03
jaemI meant memory-wise00:03
jaembtw, Macer, how much does your device cost?00:04
Maceryeah i suppose... but like i said.. want to see what this via chipset can do.. kubuntu is a good test of how well it can handle00:04
jaemfair enough00:04
Macerit was $300 w/ 1G of ram included in the pkg00:04
Macerthe hard drive i had lying around from an old laptop that broke00:04
thopiekarcu tomorrow :)00:05
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jaemoh nifty... that looks cool00:05
Macerthe artigo?00:05
Macerwell.. looks can be deceiving ;) that's why i need to test it out... if it works well... i might replace one of my shuttles and just stack about 4 of these in an atx case00:06
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Stskeepspet peeve of the day: TA's who steal the plastic cover you gave them your handin in.00:06
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, poison the covers.00:07
qwerty12_N800not worth the risk of complain', though, eh? ;)00:07
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: at one point i accidentially put coins inside a plastic cover.. that was the first time the TA (who in this case was the courses former teacher..) had anyone try to bribe him..00:08
Stskeeps(he failed my handin anyway.)00:08
qwerty12_N800pay him more!00:09
jaemhe wouldn't believe you?00:11
jaemthat stinks00:11
Maceromg this shit is taking forever to install00:11
Macerblah. it's just a watched teapot00:12
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vcellStskeeps: use some form of invisible ink that over time reappears ;) and put something like goatse on it00:16
luke-jr4 MB saved by removing tutorial-home-applet :D00:16
Macerhm. i don't know if this thing has slow video because it's just slow. or because the install program uses vesa drivers00:17
Maceri'm hoping it's because the install uses vesa for universal support00:17
Macerhopefully when it actually boots it says "DETECTING VIA PIECE OF SHIT VIDEO CHIPSET!"00:17
fireunvesa, hahaha - OLD skool00:21
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Macerfireun: a lot of things use vesa since it is standard00:22
Macerlike (which i'm guessing) this kubuntu install00:23
timelesscool, my e61i can order my n800's rhapsody around :)00:23
qwerty12_N800you get rhapsody in .fi?00:23
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timelessnot normally00:25
timelessbut at least before we shipped rhapsody i was able to use it00:25
qwerty12_N800ah :)00:25
timelessi tested it today at work00:25
Macergot an edimax usb2 wifi adapter too00:26
timelessit didn't work at dinner00:26
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timelessand it's working here @home00:26
Macersupposed to just work in ubuntu00:26
* Stskeeps is starting to have a bit of respect for the fact maemo could be squeezed into 770 flash.00:27
GeneralAntilles770 is slow and sucky. :P00:27
RST38hnice case though00:28
Stskeepsso far it isn't -that- bad00:28
Macerisn't it a bit on the clunky side?00:28
Macerthe case i mean00:28
Macerkind of large compared to the n800?00:28
GeneralAntillesThe hard cover is overrated.00:28
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timelessthe hard cover is useless00:29
* timeless happily lost it immediately00:29
GeneralAntillesNow, the kickstand00:29
GeneralAntillesThat was a stroke of genius.00:29
RST38hMacer: you could kill with it00:29
RST38hMacer: try that with n810 and see what happens00:29
jaem*clunk* aaaaah00:30
jaemyep, stil works00:30
jaemthat guy's pretty dead00:30
RST38hall right, sleep time00:30
jaemnight, RST38h00:31
jaemGA: I second that opinion - are there any other devices of similar form-factor with a kickstand? I haven't seen any00:32
* jaem just put his socks on the wrong feet00:32
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Maceri'll be damned. it boots00:38
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luke-jrwhy is /tmp only 512 KB?00:38
Macerwell. it's trying to boot... :) lets see if it can make it all the way into kde400:38
timelessi have the same files...00:40
timelessoops, w/w00:40
Stskeepsluke-jr: to keep apps from thinking they should waste precious space in /tmp? :P00:43
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jaemdoes anyone mind helping me with bootmenu issues?00:45
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jaemI have been unable to find any clear docs on the *.item format, and now can't boot into one of the three installs on my N81000:45
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jaemI installed to my ext card with console-tools00:46
jaemthen installed Mer on the internal card00:46
jaemand I'm not sure exactly how to write the *.item file00:46
Stskeepsfairly simple.. sec00:46
jaemsure, thanks00:46
jaemit looked simple, but apparently I did something wrong00:46
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Stskeepsand then refresh_bootmenu.d00:47
jaemthat looks like what I did, only it's on p2 of the external card00:48
jaemoh wait00:48
jaemthat could be the issue >_<00:48
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jaemthanks, sts00:49
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luke-jrany way to get the file manager to show more dirs?00:50
jaemhmmm... now it boots, but crashes after the creepy hands logo00:51
* jaem looks into it00:52
Stskeepser, i did write rw and not ro, right?00:52
Stskeepshm, k00:52
jaemand I didn't copy verbatim anyhow00:52
Stskeepsmake sure yours says ro then :P00:52
jaemwhich one is it?! :D00:52
jaemI presume00:52
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jaemluke-jr: by "more", do you mean more at once, or more than just the images/videos/docs folders?00:57
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Macerthis thing is pretty fucking awesome :)01:09
Macereven though the video is a little on the slow side01:10
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Macerthe artigo01:10
Macerit gets a B :)01:10
Macermaybe the newer via chipset with dx9 support and faster cpu will get an A if it can do better video01:11
Maceri'm upgrading all the kubuntu stuff on it now and have to close it up and put it somewhere.. i hope my kvm starts working with it01:11
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Macerwhen i say dx9.. i mean hopefully it will support compositing.. which this doesn't seem to want to do01:12
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Macermaybe intel will release something with their chipset that is similar.. i know their smaller video chipsets can do compositing.. not the quickest.. but it still works nonetheless01:12
MacerStskeeps: you guys fix the dual menus yet? :)01:15
Stskeepsnah, been busy doing some 770 related stuff01:15
Stskeepsi did try to investigate though01:15
Stskeepsi honestly can't see why it appears01:15
Macer770 related stuff? :)01:15
Macermer based 770 related stuff?01:16
Stskeepsnokia 770 support, we already have quite a lot running on it (from MMC)01:16
Stskeepsand i just got wifi properly working, i think01:16
Stskeepsso all the tablets are supported in one way or the other01:16
Maceri see01:16
Maceryou guys are sure going the distance huh?01:16
Macerout of curiousity .. not to question your motives.. but what do you gain from doing all this work?01:17
Stskeepsdid i mention the beagleboard, pandora devel board, pocket loox 720 port? :P01:17
Maceri mean.. is it a project for school or something?01:17
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Maceror do you just do it to do it?01:18
Stskeepspart of my contributions is work-related, part is my free time, and part is to get knowledge and do something for the community01:18
Stskeepsand to enhance my job possibilities post-graduation01:18
Corsachmhm, the qemu -M n810 seems broken here01:18
Corsacmipid_reset: Display off01:18
Corsacand then just a white screen01:18
Macerbut what job possibilities open up by making a linux based distro for n770s and n8x0s?01:18
Macerare you going to try to work at nokia?01:19
StskeepsMacer: that's just cos it is possible and someone donated a 77001:19
Stskeepsn8x0s cos noone else was going to step up it seems01:19
qwerty12_N800Corsac: dump the mtd1 from a device with the no-lifeguard-reset flag01:19
Maceri see. i just as much figured you were going to work at nokia ... i'm sure they wouldn't mind picking up a developer01:20
StskeepsMacer: meh, not a worry just yet01:20
Corsacqwerty12_N800: I don't need to boot maemo, only install a debian on it01:20
Corsacqwerty12_N800: do I still need that?01:20
Corsac(and how should I do that “dump” ?)01:20
Macerwell.. once you get a good working stable Mer.. you should try and see if they'll hire you as a developer01:20
StskeepsMacer: if anything we can always hope this work assists with discount codes for rx-51 :P01:21
Macersounds like something you may enjoy01:21
Macerthat's a lot of hours to put in for discount codes ;)01:21
Stskeepson the other hand once i'm done with the 770 work, i can introduce my gf to the tablet universe :P01:22
Macergood luck with that01:22
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Maceri tried with my gf and the n800 :) she would rather use her G101:22
Corsacplease introduce your gf privately01:22
Macershe didn't see the appeal... i almost felt like dumping her right hten and there01:22
qwerty12_N800Corsac: the dump is needed afaik, if it's just debian you're booting, then you probably don't need the no-lifeguard-reset flag.but anyway, on a n8x0, as root, 'cat /dev/mtd1ro > /media/mmc1/dump'01:23
Macersnatching my n800 out of her hands saying "I don't think this is going to work out..."01:23
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StskeepsMacer: besides that, the space between laptops and embedded systems is exploding these days.01:23
Stskeepsit will be good to know your way around the challenges of it01:24
Maceryah. it does seem to be taking off rather quickly01:24
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qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: never let it be said that you aren't generous... introducing tablets to your gf with the worst one of 'em all :p01:24
Macerstrange that coming down in power and speed can be a good thing sometimes :)01:24
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: when i get rx-51 she gets n800 :P01:24
Macerbut then again.. people don't usually race cadallacs01:24
Stskeepsi doubt i will have problems finding a job as a graduate of my university, but i rather want to do figure out something i would like to do for a living01:25
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: hehe, fair enough :D01:25
Corsacqwerty12_N800: and then I should use that dump as kernel? initrd? something else?01:25
MacerStskeeps: heh... i know a girl who got a policical science MBA from depaul university just to wind up becoming a web designer01:25
Maceri thought that was odd01:25
StskeepsMacer: well .. political science01:26
qwerty12_N800Corsac: can't remember the option sorry, i may be able to find it01:26
Maceri suppose it could help in web design.. but usually you would expect someone who majored in political science to well... be into politics :)01:26
Macerit would be like someone with an engineering degree from MIT opening a flower shop01:27
Macerit just seems odd01:27
Corsac-mtdblock maybe01:27
Stskeepsi have 5 years of being involved with research projects and before that managing a successful open source project.. at least i hope my resume will make me attractive01:27
* Stskeeps yawns01:28
Corsacdoesn't seem to work, maybe I still need the reset stuff01:28
Macerwelp. i'm going to shove this thing in a tiny spot under my shuttle and small bookshelf stereo01:29
Macerheh.. this thing is great.. at least now i have a solid linux desktop to work with01:29
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* b-man finally gets around to updating the ubuntu-n8x0 repository01:33
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Stskeepsb-man: we have added some updated HAL stuff you might want too01:34
b-mank :)01:34
Stskeepsit will enable Fn usage on n810 for instance01:35
b-mani've also noticed you've added cnetworkmanager01:35
qwerty12_N800that was me, i needed it for powerlaunch ;)01:36
Stskeepsoffline mode is a godsend :P01:37
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qwerty12_N800i'm just amazed the method i use for detection works :/01:38
Corsac it seems that I'm not the only one having problems with my config partition :)01:39
qwerty12_N800read part 2 :)01:39
Corsacok so the no-lifeguard-reset seems to be mandatory01:40
StskeepsCorsac: if you get it working, feel free to take up the QEMU N8x0 image of Mer task up :P01:40
Stskeepsi have rootfs and kernel somewhere01:41
qwerty12_N800Corsac: ah, sorry, i assumed it was only so because poky doesn't need mtd1 dump at all01:41
Corsacqwerty12_N800: I'll try and report01:41
StskeepsCorsac: there's a part II to the post01:42
qwerty12_N800been a long time since i used n810 qemu emulation, input really bugged me so I rm -rf'ed the folder out of frustration :)01:42
Corsacssh to the rescue :)01:43
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Corsac(I intend to use it mainly for building)01:43
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Stskeepsbuilding using maemo? :P01:44
* Stskeeps uses a debian armel-versatile 01:45
Stskeepswith a buildd rootstrap chroot01:46
CorsacI'm currently installing lenny in qemu armel-versatile01:46
Corsacbut I guess it'd be nicer to use -N n810 :)01:48
Corsacmaybe useless for a pure debian, too01:48
Corsacif n810 is only useful for maemo01:48
Stskeepswell i have booted ubuntu within n810 machine at some point too :P01:49
Corsacdoesn't work either01:51
CorsacI'm using versatile kernel, though01:52
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Stskeepstry grab zImage from a FIASCO image instead :P01:54
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Corsacnot sure it'll work, but it's worth trying01:58
Corsacthe flasher can do that?01:58
qwerty12_N800flasher-3.0 -u -F <image>01:59
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Corsaclots of stuff on console02:00
Corsacnothing in the SDL window02:00
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Corsac(and still mipid_reset: Display off02:01
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Stskeepsyeah, remember framebuffer console is a luxury :P02:03
Corsacyeah but still, nothing is displayed at all02:05
Corsachmmh, oh.02:05
Corsacthe installer uses framebuffer02:05
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Corsacmpf, even with instructions on how to boot maemo, no chance02:18
Corsacwell, maybe, but white screen02:18
Stskeepsthink one of the kernels is a bit silent02:19
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luke-jrjaem: I mean /media/data that I created03:20
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GeneralAntillesSounds power intensive.03:49
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AndrewFBlackHey GeneralAntilles Your around04:13
GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, hum?04:13
AndrewFBlackGeneralAntilles I contacted Quim about making sure I wont be getting contacted by any laywers and I havn't heard anything from them you know of any way to contrac him he doesn't come on irc does he?04:14
ds3if you find the magic tallisman to keep way lawyers, please please post about it =)04:15
GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, he comes on IRC every once and a while.04:15
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AndrewFBlackmaybe if I don't ask any questions I wont get bothered lol04:18
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bensonBacon Salt!!!!04:58
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bensonWe should all stock up for the summit,04:59
Macerwow.. that knetworkmanager crap is fail04:59
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Maceri have no idea how it works per user.. but screw that crap.. it is horrible :)04:59
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rm_youjohnx: yo :P05:09
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* GeneralAntilles gets a serial console on his N800.05:15
GeneralAntillesHi, rm_you.05:16
rm_youapparently I get to have dinner with RMS in April O_o05:17
rm_youwhich is sweet05:17
GeneralAntillesTell him he's a crazy person?05:17
rm_youi don't think he's crazy :P he's just an idealist, and maybe a bit of a zealot, but we need both of those qualities05:19
rm_youand i agree with him pretty much 100%05:19
GeneralAntillesCrazy as crazy gets.05:19
GeneralAntillesand not very useful for convincing the corporate types of your point of view.05:19
ds3GeneralAntilles: did you get the right connector or you just soldered it?05:20
tank-manas a user of software, I like RMS's ideas05:20
GeneralAntillesds3, I stole a couple of connectors from some old 286 machines at work.05:20
ds3What kind?05:21
rm_youas a creator of software, I agree with RMS's ideas05:21
ds3holding 3 wires on clip lead gets old quick :D05:21
GeneralAntillesds3, the right kind, I guess.05:21
ds3I am about to recycle an old 286, I should look first05:22
ds3GeneralAntilles: did you get JTAG working on the other pins?05:22
GeneralAntillesDon't have any JTAG equipment.05:22
GeneralAntillesHehe, we're having two different discussions here, I think.05:23
GeneralAntillesI got a serial console from my Beagle with a USB-to-serial adaptor plugged into my N800.05:23
GeneralAntillesNot a serial console FROM my N800.05:23
GeneralAntillesSorry. ;)05:23
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ds3OH :PPP05:24
ds3the pins on the back near the battery are console, it is just finding the right connector!05:24
GeneralAntillesds3, you'll have to build your own.05:25
ds3I was hoping there is a standard one available somewhere05:25
ds3anyways... back to dreaming05:25
GeneralAntillesNokia presumably has a custom rig that you set the device into which connects the serial console and the USB pins and likely some sort of power supply.05:25
GeneralAntillesA mounting kit like this is the only real solution:
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r2d2rogersStskeeps: Sorry, I'm down with the flu, I'm home and can test when I'm not in bed... PM if you have something I can test for you.06:03
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luke-jrstupid garage!06:23
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neatojonesthe latest nm-applet available for mer/ubuntu is broken07:22
b-man16it's working for me..07:23
neatojonesthis morning, I thoguht it was my xubuntu install07:23
neatojonesbman, which window manager are u using?07:23
neatojonesI just did a fresh install of mer.  then apt update, upgrade, then dist-upgrade.07:24
Macernew fray cd only has 10 songs?07:24
neatojonesnm-applet wouldn't start07:24
Macerthese artists nowadays just aren't trying heh07:24
neatojonessame as xfce07:24
b-man16did you have any luck with ubuntu by any chance?07:25
neatojonesbman, can you apt-get update and see if anew version of network-manager is available for u?07:25
* b-man16 is making an installer07:25
neatojonesI didn't try it today07:26
neatojonesbut, i was using network-manager-gnome07:26
neatojonesin hildon and xfce07:26
neatojonesalso, how did you get around gnome-keyring-manager problems07:27
neatojonesit was running 100% cpu in xfce and no ability to kill it.07:27
b-man16100%? 0_o hmm07:28
neatojonesstskeeps said they had to include a fix in start-hildon to prevent that.07:28
neatojonesapparently, it doesn't occur for you...?07:28
neatojonesit made xfce you'd know it07:29
b-man16i'm mainly using ubuntu atm07:29
b-man16(but i'm not having cpu problems, even with full ubuntu-desktop)07:29
neatojonesyeah. I wonder if one of their packages causes it, if the rootstrap install doesn't have the problem07:30
neatojonesxfce was slow with everything imaginable unloaded.  but the keyring manager was going crazy07:30
neatojonesnot sure07:31
neatojonesi'll try a debootstrap install next to test for it07:31
b-man16is it slow with swap enabled?07:32
neatojonesi'm wanting to compile e17,07:32
neatojonesthat was a whole other issue07:32
neatojoneshad to fix swap because it has my external and internal devices reversed in ubuntu/mer07:33
neatojonesmmcblk0p1 was my external07:33
neatojonesinstead of mmcblk1p107:33
* b-man16 doesn't have that problem, supringly07:34
neatojoneshad to fix it in fstab.07:34
b-man16re: suprisingly07:34
neatojonesI'll see if debootstrapping fixes it07:34
neatojonesmay be a problem with the installer image only07:34
neatojonesI'm dying to try the e17 illume'll probably suck.  but, Im dying to try it out.  supposedly has a nice onscreen keyboard too07:36
neatojonesjust wish i could get it to compile07:36
b-man16what kind of errors are you getting?07:36
neatojonessaid autopoint wasn't installed.07:37
neatojonesbut, it was.07:37
neatojonesthen i discovered automake install problems and could reinstall/ununstall the package07:38
neatojonesno reconfigure either07:38
neatojonesI'm gonna try another route07:38
* b-man16 hates those kind of errors - he had the same problem with gtkeyboard07:39
b-man16it depended on a non-existent package :P07:40
neatojonesso, I'll try another method next time07:40
b-man16btw, there's an update for network-manager and network-manager-gnome :)07:41
neatojonesdont't install07:41 the version you have first to restore07:41
* b-man16 will take note of that ;)07:42
neatojonesugh..I don't wanna go to launchpad land07:42
* b-man16 thinks it's too complicated07:43
neatojonespain in the bum07:44
b-man16it took me 3 weeks to figure out how to use it ;p07:44
neatojonescould just wait it out... :)07:44
* b-man16 needs to go to bed - g'night07:46
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Tobahey all08:29
TobaI can't seem to find any sort of central repository of nokia's maemo applications code08:30
TobaI am trying to find out what hildon API the Internet Call application uses to show missed call notifications08:30 ?08:30
* Toba looks there08:30
timelessthe apps themselves are typically closed08:30
timelesshowever you should be able to find what you need08:30
timelessif you really need help finding something, i have a private version which can answer directly08:31
Tobatimeless: i can't help but wonder, are you working on fennec?08:31
Tobathe mozilla QDB seems to feature you08:31
timelessas a contributor, yes08:31
Tobagood work, good luck on that bug.08:31
timelessas a Nokian, i'm more of a helper08:31
Tobathe showstopper that is.08:31
timelessno idea which one that is :)08:31
Tobasomething to do with memory08:32
TobaI don't know if it effects maemo, I'm thinking not08:32
TobaI heard about it via the grapevine08:32
timelessjust a hand written query based on what you described08:33
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TobaI have this right now08:33
Tobahildon.hildon_banner_show_information(, None, string)08:33
Tobaand that's clearly not what I want, this is for a scheduling app08:33
timelesssounds pythony08:33
Tobait is python08:33
timelessfwiw, i don't claim to speak python :)08:34
Toba is what I am porting to hildon/maemo08:34
* timeless has a Hg(.py) patchbomb to send, but...08:34
Tobait's working *mostly* now but it's not very well integrated08:34
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Tobaso I don't feel comfortable releasing a version that professes maemo support08:34
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qwerty12_N800iirc, it's a libnotify thing. internet call is closed but modest, the email client,does the same thing & its code is available.08:35
Tobalibnotify doesn't seem to be in the repositories08:36
timelessime, the notification system  fails fairly amusingly08:36
Tobaoh hold on....08:36
Tobatimeless: how so?08:36
timelesswell, a few years ago a bunch of people sent requests to be my friends via google talk08:36
TobaI want a) it to hang around until the user dismisses it b) obvious visual cue08:36
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timelessso every day i look at my tablet it flashes at me to tell me about some fixed time (and no date) when these people (chirp, chrip, chir-, chirp) asked me to be their friends08:37
timelessbecause i haven't dismissed/addressed their requests08:37
Tobawhy did you not dismiss them08:37
timelessbecause i don't know if i know them08:37
Tobahow is that a failure08:37
Tobadoes it say who it is?08:37
timelessnot in a way i can understand08:38
timelessbut the failure is the fixed <time> (not date) field08:38
Toba...that sounds more like a gtalk problem than a notification problem one08:38
timelesssimilarly, sp3000 and my sister have "called" me08:38
timelessbut the notification doesn't say which <day> they called08:38
timeless(chrip, chirp, chrip, chirp, chirp)08:38
Tobai'm gonna go ahead and assume that the programmer made a leap08:38
Tobaand assumed you wouldn't leave it for n days08:38
Tobabut would rather notice within 24 hours and the ambiguity would not exist08:39
timelessfwiw, i complained to them internally before the product shipped08:39
timelessi told them this would happen08:39
* timeless can predict the future08:39
timelesstoba: imagine someone who leaves their device for a weekend08:39
Tobaoh, I see the issue08:40
Tobathis isn't an issue for me as the application I am writing pops things up that hte user themself put in08:40
timelessheck, every time i launch outlook it tells me about all the events i've missed, typically 6+..08:40
TobaI hated that at my last job08:40
Tobaloathed it08:40
Tobaoutlook is horrid08:40
timelessthankfully outlook shows me days / times08:41
timelessso i know i missed that 6 days ago and this 7 hours ago08:41
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timelessanyway, the calendar events could just as easily have been things i created08:41
timelessjust something to consider08:41
timelessi'm assuming that's the one you care about08:42
timeless(and no, i'm not checking it against the internal sources)08:42
qwerty12_N800that should be a feature request - "have look through internal sources" :p08:44
Tobayeah i'm looking at that and hildon_set_notification_persistent08:44
timelessqwerty: heh08:44
TobaI'm beginning to suspect that the hildon python API is not complete08:44
timelessqwerty: since is a selective mirror of a box which has those sources08:44
qwerty12_N800so make it unselective! :)08:45
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Tobaoh it's in libhildondesktop not libhildon08:49
Tobai feel stupid now08:49
timelesstoba: heh08:50
timelessi think that's *very* clear from mxr :)08:51
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Tobahence the feeling stupid08:51
timelesstoba: well, as penance, teach people to use :)08:52
* Toba fiddles with his rosaries08:54
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Tobaok looking at this c header file08:56
Tobahow would I go from that to knowing where it will be in the python API08:56
TobaI'm wandering in the dark into walls here08:56
timelessyou should be able to find pymaemo or whatever there :)08:56
timelessif it's there, that is08:57
timelessand it doesn't seem to be08:57
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timelessif you pick a file, you can click the blame link to switch to an scm viewer08:59
timelessin case i'm missing something which is present in the live repo08:59
timelesshowever, i don't think i am08:59
Tobai think it's an issue of api mapping08:59
* timeless nods08:59
Tobai don't know what process hildon-desktop -> python2.5-hildondesktop takes in munging the imports etc09:00
Tobawhich is confusing me09:00
timelesswell, assuming you're using pymaemo09:00
timelessyou can just read it from the links i'm offering :)09:00
Tobai'm not even sure what pymaemo is09:00
timelessi'm assuming it's the Python for Maemo bindings you're using09:00
Tobai'm using python, python2.5-gtk, python2.5-hildon, and python2.5-hildondesktop09:00
* timeless ponders09:00
timelessmaybe it's different09:01
Tobamaybe i should be doing something different than this?09:01
TobaI have no idea, I didn't want to completely munge the code09:01
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TobaI'm trying to make the same codebase continue to run on a normal gtk system09:01
* timeless nods09:01
Tobawithout exploding or making too huge a patchset09:01
timeless   die09:01
Tobai'm doing that in psyched_notify.py09:01
TobaI'm just using the wrong hildon api for notifications09:02
timelessmaybe it's python-hildondesktop?09:02
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Tobait is09:02
Tobabut i don't know what to import inside that09:02
* timeless wonders where that comes from09:02
* Toba has no idea09:02
Toba0.0.2-2 (/var/lib/apt/lists/repository.maemo.org_extras_dists_diablo_free_binary-armel_Packages) (/var/lib/dpkg/status)09:02
Tobathat's where it comes from, it seems09:03
timelessit's not the right thing09:03
* timeless shrugs09:03
Tobait's not?09:03
timelesspyphantom is an IDE to help developers create Python plug-ins for Hildon Desktop. It is completely developed in Python with pygtk, gtksourceview and libhildondesktop. It is hosted under Maemo Garage.09:03
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TobaI'm not using pyphantom09:03
Tobaso I assume this is a good thing?09:03
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timelessi think the problem is that whomever runs python for maemo isn't in garage09:04
Tobawhat is this 'python for maemo' is it a special port of python to the maemo platform09:04
Tobaor a module for using the maemo platform from python09:04
* timeless shrugs09:04
timelessi don't really do anything w/ python09:05
TobaI think I'll just jump back in and see what the hell I can find09:05
slonopotamusToba, maemo uses patched python09:05
TobaI figured it would, for some reason09:06
Tobafor one, it doesn't have the help function09:06
Tobaso that's clearly not stock09:06
timelessthat's probably for space reasons09:06
Tobayeah 256 megs isn't space to be using on documentation09:07
Tobahence the no manapges09:07
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qwerty12~nuke libtoool09:13
* infobot_ prepares 100 missle silos, and targets them at libtoool ... B☢☢M!09:13
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StskeepsToba: still around?09:54
Tobawhat's up?09:54
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StskeepsToba: you want python-hildondesktop bindings for normal OS'es?09:54
Stskeepsah, then i misread09:55
TobaI only need it in maemo09:55
Tobabut I need to find out how to do a persistent notification using it09:55
Tobaand I can't seem to find it in there09:55
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Corsacqwerty12: the device should be in R&D mode PLUS having the no-reset R&D flag, correct?10:42
qwerty12Corsac, if you have the no-reset flag enabled, rd-mode gets enabled automatically10:42
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Corsac btw10:44
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aquatixCorsac: nice10:45
aquatixthat looks quite usable10:45
Corsacit's with the “easy-debian” chroot10:45
Corsacit's usable but there are keyboard issues10:45
Corsacqwerty12: mpf, I've re-checked out a config.mtd with no-reset-flag and I still can't see any display :/10:46
StskeepsCorsac: could probably draw inspiration from Debian beta3 scrshots10:46
CorsacStskeeps: Debian beta3 ?10:47
StskeepsCorsac: the original interface for one of the debian for NITs release was xfce-based10:47
Stskeepsyou can probably find screenshots somewhere10:48
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qwerty12Corsac, worked for me a long time ago:  :/10:48
Corsacwow, with -M n800 it seems to work10:48
CorsacI get the bootloader screen at least10:49
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CorsacStskeeps: well, I'm the Debian Xfce maintainer so yeah that would interest me :)10:49
qwerty12N800's a better model to use, using a emulated N810 keyboard is the worst shit ever10:49
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StskeepsCorsac: try prod johnx about it when he's around10:50
Corsacmpf, it seems stuck at bootloader, but I don't really have the correct kernel and rootfs for n800 anyway10:50
qwerty12they're really the same - i've flashed a n810 rootfs onto my N80010:51
StskeepsCorsac: has screenshots of deblets xfce10:51
qwerty12Minus documentation and minor things10:51
Stskeepswell, a bastard combination of xfce and matchbox wm..10:51
Corsacqwerty12: ok so maybe it's just stuck at the same place on both but at least with -M n810 it shows something10:51
Corsacn800 I mean10:51
qwerty12Corsac, I've got a few hours, I'll try setting this up again and letting you know how it goes10:51
Corsacshould I be able to combine a config.mtd with other images (for example the qemu img I created for debian armel)?10:53
Corsacor a mer image?10:53
qwerty12should work, after all, it's just a poky tool - i'd assume it's intended for general use :)10:53
Corsacrootfs_offset=2304 # chinook10:54
Corsac#rootfs_offset=3328 # diablo10:54
Corsacthat might be a problem :)10:55
qwerty12yeah, gets shifted due to the initfs being bigger, but you should change that (and in the qemu source too somewhere :P)10:55
JaffaMorning, all10:56
X-FadeMorning, Jaffa.10:56
* Stskeeps ponders where on earth people get the misconception Mer is a Ubuntu effort10:57
CorsacI didn't rebuild qemu10:57
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CorsacStskeeps: so you can justify asking money to marks10:57
Corsacok, without a patched qemu I'm basically doomed10:58
StskeepsCorsac: it is fairly easy and fast to build qemu head10:58
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qwerty12Corsac, you'll wanna patch with definitely11:00
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Corsacyeah but I don't really like ok11:00
Corsacwill check that, but diverting from packages is not that much a good idea11:01
Corsacwhen possible :)11:01
Stskeepsqwerty12: think it is in qemu HEAD now11:01
CorsacI have qemu-0.9.1+svn2009010411:01
qwerty12Stskeeps, nope. Just checked it out and it's still the old values.11:01
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Corsacnow that won't solve my other problem, with no kernel/initrd to boot my debian-armel partition :/11:03
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* qwerty12 has only used it to boot maemon11:04
Corsaceven with -M volatileab11:04
CorsacI've installed the debian yesterday11:04
Corsacbut in the end it said “I didn't install any bootloader, so deal with it yourself”11:05
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X-Fadetimeless: ping.11:23
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Broken_hey all11:37
Broken_anyone around?11:45
Broken_echo echo echo11:45
RST38hmoo all11:46
qwerty12hi RST38h11:46
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RST38hheya qwerty11:47
jaemhello and goodnight11:48
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X-Fadethopiekar: Can you tell jeremiah what the problem is with your latest uploads?11:53
thopiekarjeremiah: hi first of all.. I've uploaded some sources to "extras" with the Maemo Extras Assistant.. and I just want to know when the packages will be available on extras-repo.. could you please help me?11:55
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X-Fadethopiekar: And the xorg upload?11:55
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thopiekarthis problem..11:56
jeremiahI am all ears :)11:56
qwerty12jeremiah, is XSBC-Original-Maintainer correct or Original-Maintainer?11:57
jeremiahqwerty12: You mean in the control file?11:57
qwerty12yep :)11:57
qwerty12because I've seen XSBC-Original-Maintainer recommended but there's an oddity11:58
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jeremiahI don't think it really matters,11:58
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jeremiahlintian might complain, but you can ignore that for maemo11:58
qwerty12Yeah, I guess it's me being pedantic.11:58
thopiekarI uploaded yesterday xorg and there were some meta's in it but I removed them.. they were meta's to some ubuntu drivers...11:58
jeremiahqwerty12: Which is good, don't get me wrong! :)11:58
qwerty12Hehe :)11:59
* thopiekar is working on a newer debhelper version..11:59
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X-Fadethopiekar: streamripper is in extras-devel?11:59
jeremiahthopiekar: You are working on a version of debhelper? Or a version of your package made with debhelper?11:59
thopiekarX-Fade: shouldn't it be in extras?12:00
X-Fadethopiekar: Not if you don't promote it?12:00
thopiekarhow can i promote packages?!12:00
thopiekarI haven't permissions for that..12:00
infobot_rumour has it, upload-extras is
X-Fadethopiekar: Sure you do.12:01
thopiekarjeremiah: .. working on a newer version of debhelper actually :)12:01
jeremiahhmm, okay.12:01
jeremiahWhich part? It is lots of little programs12:02
jeremiahAnd written in perl, while maemo is more python-centric12:02
thopiekarjeremiah: i'm working on the xserver things..12:02
jeremiahspecifically what?12:03
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Stskeepsthopiekar: .. that sounds like a dangerous path O_o12:03
thopiekarjeremiah: I was working on that last night..12:03
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thopiekarnow its 11:0312:03
thopiekar.. "Please make sure your package is ready for the masses and at least test: ".. silly without having a tablet atm..12:04
jeremiahthopiekar: Ah, an all night hacking session? =)12:04
qwerty12Stskeeps, not so much when sbox overrides it...12:04
Stskeepsqwerty12: well considering how much chaos tz1's stuff caused..12:04
thopiekarjeremiah: hehe yes..12:04
qwerty12Stskeeps, how many people have debhelper installed on their tablets? It's not carried in a repo because sbox satisfies it internally.12:04
Stskeepsqwerty12: oh, i was speaking of xorg, debhelper sb1 will brutally molest on itself12:05
qwerty12heh :)12:05
jeremiahRight, which points to the fact that any local changes you make to debhelp thopiekar will not show up when you build in the maemo environment.12:05
* thopiekar is confused in the dependences-"tree" of debhelper.. he is making a mindmap now..12:06
jeremiahAll your debhelper changes will disappear because the package gets built using the maemo tools12:06
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thopiekarjeremiah: ? Even when I make changes in control ( if needed) and uploading the dependences on Maemo Extras Assistant before?12:08
jeremiahThe autobuilders do not have your chages to debhelper.12:09
jeremiahWhat package do you want to build for maemo? Maybe we can do that and then incorporate your debhelper changes?12:09
Stskeepsbut we do see some of the problems of maemo platform :P debhelper is -ancient- :P12:09
jeremiahStskeeps: Oh really?12:09
jeremiahI will have to upload a newer one then, see if we can get that into the repos12:10
qwerty12yep, we have v5 from the debian-etch sbox devkit12:10
X-FadeI wonder what happens if you upload it to extras-devel and then specify the Newer version as Build-Depends for your package?12:10
Stskeepsjeremiah: well sadly it isn't that simple, you need to modify the devkit12:10
StskeepsX-Fade: SB will override it anyway12:10
timelessqwerty12: so... think you could write my preinst/postrm scripts? :)12:10
qwerty12X-Fade, sbox will override it12:10
thopiekarjeremiah: hmm I've foregot it btm but I think it was needed for pulseaudio...12:10
qwerty12timeless, hmm, I'm not the best scripter :)12:11
timelessjeremiah: help :)12:11
jeremiahI will work on this today timeless!12:12
qwerty12timeless, I know it's not recommended but dpkg-divert worked wonders for me the other day when replacing files...12:12
jeremiahI promise.12:12
jeremiahI have been trying to get up to speed with the difference between debian and maemo12:12
timelessjeremiah: my day on fridays is very short12:13
jeremiahtimeless: I think I have the zip file and will start working on it immediately after I try to convince thopiekar to get some sleep. :)12:13
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timelessnote that the zip file gets updated daily at times12:14
timelessso don't cache it :)12:14
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thopiekarjeremiah: so I should stop working on that..12:14
jeremiahthopiekar: Well, not necessarily. I just think you have done a great deal of work12:14
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jeremiahand maybe you can refine your goals after you have got a little sleep12:15
jeremiahI want to help you out as much as I can, but I know that when I am really tired, after staring at the screen12:15
thopiekar:D I've stoped yesterday at 23:59^^12:15
jeremiahall night, sleep has a way of clearing my head12:15
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jeremiahmaking the work easier.12:15
X-FadeBTW if we need a newer debhelper, we could probably push for it in Fremanlte still.12:15
thopiekarI had 10h of great sleep12:16
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jeremiahX-Fade: Good point. I will put that down so we can try to get that in12:16
jeremiahX-Fade: Where's a good place to make notes like that?12:16
jeremiahThe sprint wiki?12:16
X-FadeWasn't there a wiki page for it? (#maemo please help me out) :)12:17
jeremiahThe newest debhelper, dh 7, is a big departure.12:17
jeremiahBut it makes really clean rules files.12:17
thopiekarjeremiah: would debhelper-7.0.13maemo1 be fresh enough for fremantle and diablo?12:17
jeremiahthopiekar: Probably.12:18
jeremiahthopiekar: Did you package that?12:18
qwerty12X-Fade, I think a bug is filed and then added here: . Or maybe I'm looking at the wrong page.12:18
thopiekarnot at the moment..12:18
thopiekarbut I should be called like that when I've finished my work12:18
StskeepsSDK is really in need of an updated devkit12:19
qwerty12& a toolchain12:19
timelessqwerty: i'm not entirely opposed to it, but m-vo didn't think it was promising12:19
qwerty12I'd like to get aircrack-ng in extras but I can only build it locally in a sbox with a cs2008 toolchain.12:19
timelesseither way, the process needs to automatically pick filenames and diversions12:19
qwerty12timeless, yeah :/12:20
timelessany hard coding in the scripts is a disaster12:20
* thopiekar wonders why po4a needs a perl-module..12:20
timelessjeremiah/qwerty: there's also the question as to whether i should just have one package12:20
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timelessi'm trying to model the way packages should be written12:20
jeremiahthopiekar: Lots of utilities in debian / ubuntu use perl behind the scenes12:20
qwerty12timeless, one package does make it a hell of a lot easier to maintain12:20
jeremiahdebian is built in perl :P12:21
timelessesp to enable my packages to be taken by upstream as replacements for their junk12:21
jeremiahtimeless: For maemo?12:21
jeremiahHaving one package is a lot easier to maintain, that is true.12:22
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Stskeepsmaybe one source package and multiple binary packages?12:23
thopiekarjeremiah: would it be *ok* removing "libmodule-build-perl" from the control-file?12:23
qwerty12timeless, I hope there is a cleaner way than dpkg-divert, I hate to think of the amount of lines you're gonna need in your post/pre scripts. But I'm no expert on dpkg-divert, only used it once :)12:23
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jeremiahthopiekar: Not if it is required to build12:24
jeremiahAnd I think libmodule-build-perl is pretty fundamental.12:24
thopiekarhmm I should test it with dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -sa12:24
jeremiahIn fact, it is one of the three build tools used in perl12:24
jeremiahSo I doubt you would be able to remove it.12:24
jeremiahthopiekar: Add the -D flag to so you get dependency checking12:25
thopiekarok it fails12:25
timelessqwerty: i think a single script can be stuck into the locale-support pacakge12:26
timelessand then have preinst/postrm just use that script12:26
timelessin fact, if it can't be written that way, it's not going to work12:27
qwerty12With preinst, remember, it's run before any files are installed12:27
jeremiahYeah, preinst means pre-install.12:27
jeremiahtimeless: What are the files at issue? What files do you want to over-write?12:28
timelessjeremiah: *all* of them :)12:29
timelessbasically each .mo file i distribute12:29
timelessor each .txt or .html or .xml or ...12:29
jeremiahokay that's easy . . . rm -rf *12:29
timelesswhatever things12:29
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timelessjeremiah: the issue is the uninstall case12:29
timelessshould recover the file i replaced12:29
jeremiahtimeless: Ah12:29
timelessi'm already overwriting the original12:29
timelessbut per the maemo extras rules, uninstall must not be harmful12:30
jeremiahoh I see, now I remember you mentioning something about that.12:30
jeremiahSo uninstall has to return the user's machine to previous state.12:30
jeremiahAnd you are writing _over_ the previous files, so they are gone?12:31
jeremiahCan you just re-name them?12:31
jeremiahLike to mo.orig? Or foo.xml.orig?12:31
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Stskeepsmorning lcuk12:33
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qwerty12feeling better?12:33
lcuknot really12:34
qwerty12damn :(12:35
lcukstopped producing gunk now but cant talk still12:35
lcukmind you, in here thats not a bad thing12:35
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RST38hmoo lcuk12:38
jeremiahOkay timeless and thopiekar, I am going to do some work on timeless' package but I should be around.12:39
timelessi'm off to lunch12:41
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jeremiahOff to lunch too, will be back later12:52
thopiekarhmm building all needed perl-packages to maemo is crazy, because they have lots of dependences, haven't they jeremiah?.12:53
slonopotamushaven't i told you that maemo's perl is patched too? :)12:57
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lcukbleugh RST38h12:59
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Stskeepsthopiekar: and it is often most likely that the perl devkit will mess you up too :P13:01
* thopiekar hates perl13:02
Stskeepsi'd rather say SDK is the more correct target but :)13:02
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lardmanmorning all13:03
Stskeeps(there's a reason why one of the mini-policies for mer is that scratchbox: it's good for you and me if it can build in scratchbox, but it's alright if it doesn't) :P13:03
thopiekarlardman: moin :)13:04
lardmanhey thopiekar13:04
thopiekarStskeeps: :]13:04
qwerty12What about the packages that rely on scratchbox oddities? *Looking wistfully at maemo-xkb-plugin*13:04
lardmananyone use voip here? Does GTalk work from tablet <-> PC?13:04
Stskeepsqwerty12: those needs to die, i have met those amongst hildon code13:04
thopiekarStskeeps: you should definitively work on a interface like Maemo Extras Assistant... :)13:05
Jaffalardman: no, but it works well tablet <-> tablet13:05
Stskeepsthopiekar: right now we have scp + ssh, works too :P13:05
lardmanJaffa: even just for voice?13:05
lardmanJaffa: I mean it doens't work even just for voice?13:06
Jaffalardman: I believe GTalk's desktop video/audio support doesn't use the Jingle XMPP extensions that Google designed.13:06
lardmanso Gizmo or Skype then? Any thoughts on which is better?13:06
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JaffaGizmo's more "standard", but Skype is more prevalent.13:07
JaffaNeither worked very well tablet <-> tablet for me13:07
lardmanwell it's just to phone home, am heading to India next week13:08
lardmanphone home meaning phone to my PC at home13:08
lardmanfrom my tablet13:08
* Stskeeps prefers skype (but have not yet tried the others)13:08
X-FadeUsed skype while on holiday in Sulawesi, worked OK from my N810.13:08
thopiekarStskeeps: :D13:09
lardmanis skype free for skype to skype calls?13:09
X-Fadelardman: Sure .13:09
lardmancool, thanks chaps13:09
X-Fadelardman: But give the other party you N800, so you can do video calls. Is really cool when you are far away..13:10
timelesssts: please lemme know how my skype changes feel :)13:10
lcukquantum teleportation13:10
lardmanyeah, that's a good idea13:10
Stskeepstimeless: strings or code alteration13:10
lardmanX-Fade: if I give my gf the n800 I may not get it back! ;)13:11
X-Fadelardman: Well, that is what I did with mine ;)13:11
lardmanyeah, I had to beg it back to do some dev work on it, ah well13:11
* Stskeeps is giving the gf a 770 when his devel work is done with it13:12
Stskeepswith mer installed, obviously13:12
timelessstrings :)13:12
lcuklardman, ssh overrides local usage13:12
timelessskype is officially a third party app13:13
lardmanI tried that and was told it wasn't fast enough :p13:13
timelessso officially i don't see the code :)13:13
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qwerty12lcuk, offline mode overrides ssh ;)13:13
lardmanlcuk: good call, I get strange looks when it reboots though :)13:13
lcukbut then its not really an internet tablet13:13
lcuklol i get shouted at for starting apps13:13
qwerty12apt-get install flite ; echo "whatever" | flite - have fun :)13:14
lcukanyway, goin again13:14
lcuknice to see you all still exist13:14
lardmanhmm, amazing, some useful info on -users (though it did come from the General, so no wonder): Gizmo can be connected though the rtcomm stuff, I presume that means without their gui stuff?13:14
* thopiekar hates changing the control | changelog file for every dependency .. but he knows thats deb-rule[z]..13:15
X-Fadelardman: Yep, then you just use the normal voip interface.13:15
lardmanah cool, that sounds good13:15
thopiekarhow is the shortcut for Friday? Fr or Fri?13:16
qwerty12thopiekar, dch -i13:16
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Jaffathopiekar: In English, "Fri" would be typical.13:17
lardmanlcuk: re that multi-touch thing, H&W wires is the same as a usual screen isn't it?13:17
thopiekarqwerty12: what does that commend?13:17
qwerty12thopiekar, adds a new section to the changelog automatically with the correct date13:18
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thopiekarwoohooo! is it possible to add the text to the command, too?13:18
qwerty12It opens in nano, edit whatever there13:19
thopiekarlike my flowery phrase   "* Repackaged to the architecture armel" ?13:19
thopiekarhmm ok13:19
lcuklardman, no, with resistive, there are wires along the edges (4wire, plus occasionally one contact point in the centre (5wire)).  this has a full matrix of || and = over the entire surface13:23
lardmanhmm, but there must be wires/something conductive along the h & v13:24
X-Fadelardman: Open a white page and look at the 'grain'..13:24
lardmanso is the resistance set by the edges? higher resistance = further along edge?13:25
lcukedges only
lcukX-Fade, the grain on m810 is for a different reason (holes to let light behind for sunlight readability)13:25
lcukbut im goin back to bed bbl or something13:26
X-Fadelcuk: Ah true..13:26
* lcuk hacks up another lung13:26
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JaffaMore details on webOS:
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t_s_owould be interesting if they launched a centro model with webos13:35
RST38ht_s_o: can't - no touchscreen13:37
RST38hor does it have one?13:37
RST38hJaffa: In other words, it is based on a local webserver13:38
RST38hLike Nokia's Personal Web Server13:38
t_s_oRST38h: it seems it does, would be kinda hard to use palmos if not ;)13:39
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t_s_ohmm, i wonder how webos will be impacted by the recent html5 xss issue...13:39
* thopiekar is at the beginning of all dependences.. debhelper > po4a > libmodule-build-perl > perl > gcc | bam! .. he has got no clue what to do now.. maybe jeremiah knows it..13:40
JaffaRST38h: it's the services exposed by the JSON bridge which make it viable (for certain classes of applications)13:40
Jaffathopiekar: what *are* you trying to do (end-goal), and what are you trying to do (currently?)13:41
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thopiekarbring up a fresh version of debhelper from ubuntu's source-repo..13:41
thopiekarlot's of packages of the sdk are too old!13:41
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jeremiahYeah, I think I am going to file a bug about the older tools in the sdk13:43
Jaffathopiekar: what feature do you need? Uploading a new debhelper to extras is likely to break other packages13:43
t_s_oam i reading it right that a app can include its own service binary?13:43
qwerty12jeremiah, you may have to, (and this is fremantle) doesn't look promising :)13:44
qwerty12Well, the alpha sdk13:44
thopiekarJaffa: might be right but jeremiah said nothing about that..13:45
thopiekarqwerty12: the newest version of debhelper on ubuntu is 7.xxx13:45
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qwerty12i know13:46
thopiekarat least for fremantle there should be a upgrade..13:46
jeremiahYeah, depbhelper is 5.0.42 in alpha freemantle, and at least 7 in debian13:46
JaffaProbably too late with the alpha around the corner. I suppose it's *possible* there'd be room in the plan for an unexpected upgrade between the alpha & beta13:46
jeremiahthanks for the link qwerty1213:46
Stskeepsso Palm Pre is basically just a glorified webbrowser? ;)13:47
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jeremiahJaffa: Aha. It might be a lot of work to intergrate a new debhelper set of tools.13:47
qwerty12t_s_o, :>13:47
Stskeepsjeremiah: actually it is fairly easy13:47
Stskeepsif you know how to do it sanely13:48
jeremiahStskeeps: How do you know? There are so many small tools that it would take a lot of testing to make sure things build13:48
t_s_oqwerty12: seems like a "improved" version of something i have seen before (i kinda liked the old one tho as it had more space age parts)13:48
jeremiahI think it should work, but testing it would have to be extensive13:48
Stskeepsjeremiah: general expression of how scratchbox is built and the scripts in use and patches and so on13:48
qwerty12t_s_o, heh, and here's me with my standard HP case :)13:48
t_s_oqwerty12: heh, i know the feel13:49
Stskeepsjeremiah: (i have actually made a scratchbox devkit with updated stuff for mer :P)13:49
Stskeeps.. not debhelper though13:49
t_s_oaltho i think its maybe 10 years since i last bought a of the shelf desktop system ;)13:49
jeremiahI don't doubt you know the scoop, I just mean that one cannot be sure about a new tool13:49
jeremiahnot breaking everything until you have tested it.13:50
* thopiekar thinks about whether there are any packages like gcc, apt or whatever which are up-to-date ... he thinks not13:50
jeremiahThat is what I meant by "How do you know"13:50
t_s_osadly its become very hard to find desktop cases that do not look like some building in the red light district...13:50
Stskeepsjeremiah: yeah, true13:50
qwerty12t_s_o, my first computer (my current HP is my second) was custom. 733MHZ & 128MB ram. As you can see, I needed the upgrade...13:50
jeremiahthopiekar: It might be easier to focus on the package that you want to put in extras instead of the tools to do it . . .13:51
t_s_oheh, i used a 466Mhz for the longest time...13:51
thopiekarjeremiah: might be right..13:51
t_s_oi think it had something silly like 300MB ram ;)13:51
Stskeepsjeremiah: that is two sides of the same thing (put in extras and tools to do it), as extras require packages to build so you need to get the tools in too :P13:51
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t_s_omaybe more accuratly around 380MB...13:51
* thopiekar thinks about focusing more on mer in future..13:51
jeremiahStskeeps: That is true.13:52
* qwerty12 generally butchers the rules,control & compat to work under debhelper 513:53
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Stskeepsjeremiah: one of the things i was upset(?) about with maemo was the fact you spend more time compiling libraries and tools than actually porting your package :P13:53
Stskeepsand hildonizing it13:54
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Stskeepsjeremiah: (btw, i am not criticising, just trying to share experiences :)13:54
thopiekarcould someone please test the packages: streamripper, libtre4? I want to promote them to extras..13:54
jeremiahStskeeps: Yeah, I totally understand. And that kind of info is invaluable to know13:54
jeremiahBut I think there is a balance between a commercially supported tool and a community supported tool13:55
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Stskeepsyeah, obviously13:55
jeremiahAnd some of the maemo bits we don't control :-/13:55
jeremiahBut, there is Mer! :)13:55
Stskeepsbut a thing like this harms the platform13:55
jeremiahStskeeps: I will try to bring that message to the right ears. :)13:56
jeremiahBut I suspect that if we, or I as debmaster, build a good environment, the powers that be might let us put it in maemo13:56
X-FadeStskeeps: I expect that when we move to something more like a distribution that porting will take less time. As most libs etc will already be available in the repo.13:57
jeremiahWe can't forget that there are also space constraints, we are not building a desktop distro, so not every single thing will get in.13:59
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Stskeepsjeremiah: obviously, libs vs tools though14:00
Stskeepsi am kinda inclined to think space may not be too much of a concern in rx-51 but that's me..14:01
X-Fadejeremiah: No, but users can decide for themselves if they want to install an app+deps of a certain size. Application Manager will show how large the install will be in toal.14:01
jeremiahStskeeps: Yes, true.14:01
hahlojeremiah: are you from se?14:01
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jeremiahhahlo: An American who lives in .se (Gothenburg)14:02
hahlook cool14:02
X-FadeStskeeps: Yeah, anything from a few gigs up is probably fine..14:02
Stskeepsoh ffs, why do i always get post when i have to go14:03
jeremiahOkay, if space is not a concern, and you guys know more about this than me, then I think we should be tracking debian a little more closely.14:03
Stskeepsjeremiah: and 'Jaiku | The Deblet Project' is interesting reading14:03
Stskeeps(which is what spawned mer. ) :P14:03
X-Fadejeremiah: Not saying you can install oo.o with it's deps easily, but yeah ;)14:03
t_s_oX-Fade: app manager only does so if one go to details and check the installing tab, iirc. i wish it would show the total next to the list entry, but that could be somewhat harder i guess...14:03
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X-Fadet_s_o: enhancement request? :)14:04
RST38hjeremiah: Nokia usually takes pretty old debian packages and builds on them14:04
t_s_oX-Fade: fixed in fremantle?14:04
Stskeepsfixed in mer? :P14:04
X-Fadet_s_o: Don't ask me..14:04
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lcukt_s_o, total would require recalculating after every package change.  it would be slow14:04
RST38hjeremiah: Whatever newer packages you build, will probably have to go into MeR rather than Maemo =(14:05
Jaffaqwerty12_N800: indeed, that's why mud-builder's got loads of compatibility tweaks14:05
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jeremiahGood stuff Stskeeps! Maemo Reconstructed is interesting reading.14:05
t_s_olcuk: your probably right. not that its fast already given how it insists on rescanning thing each time one do anything...14:05
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Stskeepsjeremiah: a lot of this is no longer accurate though14:06
lcukthe rescan would be much more, its viable when you click details (apt-get does it as well)14:06
jeremiahHopefully since debian lenny is now stable, newer packages can make their way to Nokia.14:06
* lcuk goes back to truman show14:06
qwerty12_N800Jaffa: I really should read up on mud-builder, I usually repack upstream packages manually - mud-builder sounds like it can save a lot of time :)14:07
RST38hjeremiah: It does appear more of a political decision, judging from the previous history14:07
Jaffaqwerty12_N800: Best way of seeing how it can help is to look at the new vim package. One xml file and a few icons to build an end-user installable and runnable app14:07
RST38hProbably having to do with having to test the whole system every time a new package version is imported14:08
jeremiahI will say that development targeting these devices is fragmented.14:09
hahlounder battery cover reads made in finland but wlan mac informs nokia denmark14:09
jeremiahWhile that is to be expected, it is a little hard to manage14:09
RST38hwhat do you mean by "fragmented"?14:10
jeremiahRST38h: Why is there deblet _and_ Mer?14:11
RST38hjeremiah: Ah, these are two different projects14:11
jeremiahI mean, debian supports armel, why do we need deblet?14:11
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RST38hjeremiah: Deblet is a way to run Debian apps in chrooted environment from under Maemo14:11
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jeremiahThat sounds more like a feature than an application.14:12
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RST38hjeremiah: MeR (Maemo REconstructed) is an attempt to make an open distro based on Maemo bits (including proprietary Nokia bits needed to manage table hw)14:12
StskeepsRST38h: er, no14:12
Stskeepsjeremiah: Deblet was Debian with packages added to the debian lenny armel port to make it run sanely on tablets14:13
StskeepsMer is the successor of that project (as RST38h described)14:13
Stskeepsjeremiah: we couldn't call it Debian for NITs, obviously14:13
Stskeepsas some things were not kosher at all14:13
RST38hWell, they TRIED calling it Debian but debian guys protested :)14:13
jeremiahStskeeps: But isn't it just a maemo development environment ported?14:13
RST38hOn some stupid legal reason14:13
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RST38hit's not.14:14
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Stskeepsjeremiah: er, no - maemo development environment is closer to etch i think14:14
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jeremiahThe first line of the deblet project is: "to provide a Debian-based distribution"14:14
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jeremiahfor Nokia tablets14:15
jeremiahBut debian already provides this.14:15
Stskeepsjeremiah: long story short: distributions on internet tablets cannot be taken as-is, you cannot run d-i and so on14:15
Stskeepsit cannot even boot sanely without some tricks14:16
qwerty12_N800jeremiah: to say arm support = full support for tablet isn't really true14:16
jeremiahTrue, but all the good work you guys did could make its way into debian no?14:16
jeremiahAnd then debian could have proper support for these devices.14:17
jeremiahFrom the people who know them best14:17
Stskeepsjeremiah: yes, but deblet stuff is out of date now and some of the tricks wouldn't be kosher at all :/14:17
jeremiahStskeeps: Ah.14:17
RST38hjeremiah: Deblet is an older project14:17
jeremiahokay, so the new Hotness is Mer and I should ignore deblet?14:17
RST38hjeremiah: As to merging MeR into Debian, it is not possible even for legal reasons14:17
jeremiahRST38h: What about if you removed the proprietary blobs?14:18
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qwerty12_N800Ah, but deblet was a little dirty in some of the things it did - it used propritary nokia things for example -not dfsg compliant for sure :)14:18
RST38hjeremiah: Then it will not work on the tablet14:18
StskeepsRST38h: what about legal reasons? we have a fully free base system :P14:18
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hahloStskeeps: could somebody port pure debian for tablets?14:18
qwerty12_N800and I type too slow evidently :)14:18
Stskeepshahlo: that was deblet..14:18
RST38hSts: Yes but it won't work on the tablet :)14:18
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StskeepsRST38h: sure it would, but it would be irritating to use..14:18
RST38hSts: In my definition, it is called "won't work"14:19
jeremiahRST38h: So to run / boot / use the tablet, you need proprietary Nokia blobs14:19
RST38hjeremiah: yes14:19
Stskeepsnot entirely correct14:19
hahlobut the way debian do officially?14:19
Stskeepshahlo: no, not a official debian way14:19
Stskeepsit is debian armel with packages on top14:19
RST38hSts: you need the proprietary stuff to use the tablet14:19
jeremiahStskeeps: Are you aiming for a complete free software version for the tablet?14:19
RST38hthat is exactly what he is aiming at ;)14:19
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: practicaly, let's be honest, you do14:20
RST38hintegrating this stuff into debian proper is kinda non-goal14:20
Stskeepsjeremiah: for Mer, we target a fully free base system. There might be HW support and "added value" by Nokia.14:20
RST38hit may be ideologically nice, but none of us profit from it as end users14:20
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Stskeepsjeremiah: but i am not delusional and thinking that we will get a 100% free 100% functioning tablet system14:21
Stskeepson this hardware14:21
RST38hSts: But that IS the goal. Otherwise, you are creating a system that nobody will use14:21
RST38hSts: Except for diehards fans willing to live with a semifunctional devices14:22
jeremiah debian struggles with this issue of "Free" themselves14:22
jeremiahThere are firmware blobs that debian does not have the source for14:22
jeremiahthis goes against the dfsg14:23
RST38hWell, Debian is very ideological about it14:23
jeremiahand causes lots of fighting.14:23
RST38hMeR is not, unless Sts thinks otherwise of course :)14:23
jeremiahYes, they are ideological, and they should be.14:23
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StskeepsRST38h: misunderstand me correctly for a sec :) Mer, as in everything that is portable (hildon, ubuntu base system, mer scripts) will be 100% free and fully adaptable to other hardware. Like, on PCs, there might be firmware (BME, WLAN/Bluetooth firmware), which is closed, to support the hardware14:23
jeremiahOr at least I think they should be. :)14:23
RST38hSts: Well, you do want to support the hardware, no? :)14:24
StskeepsRST38h: yes, which the community firmware image deal is about..14:24
RST38hSts: If we set "support hardware = TRUE" then we get "proprietary blobs = TRUE"14:24
Stskeepsand also, there might be an opening from Nokia to allow Mer to merge Mer base system + HW support + optional Nokia-owned software, for tablet users14:24
Stskeepsand that is fair, in my honest opinion14:24
glassthats pretty fair14:25
Stskeepsfor the die-hard OSS people, and you're ok with NOLO being closed, you can still run Mer, but it will lack HW interfacing (wifi, battery, etc)14:25
Stskeepson the tablets, that is14:25
Stskeepsbut noone stops you from taking Mer as it is, and move it to other hardware, change, alter, under the licensing conditions14:26
Stskeepsso that's how it looks :P14:26
* RST38h would like wifi, battery, etc =)14:26
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RST38hWho wouldn't?14:26
Stskeepsand agreeing to a license like you do when you download from to get a image that is Mer + HW + (optional stuff).. that is good enough for me14:27
Stskeepssince you can grab the Mer stuff outside of that licensing14:27
jeremiahI wish I had never discovered this channel.14:28
Stskeepsjeremiah: takes too much of your time? :P14:28
RST38htoo late14:28
jeremiahIt's too interesting, can't get any work done!14:28
Stskeepsideally a downloadable package or redistribution rights of the FW would be better, but for now, we have to play by the rules14:28
jeremiah =)14:28
Stskeepsjeremiah: i'd almost say it is part of your work, but hey :P14:29
jeremiahStskeeps: I think you're right actually. :)14:29
qwerty12_N800jeremiah: I now get to sleep much later as I stay awake chatting here :P14:29
jeremiahqwerty12_N800: heh.14:29
jeremiahqwerty12_N800: Where are you located in RL?14:29
jeremiahStskeeps: I think we will slowly see more firmware relased as free software.14:30
qwerty12_N800jeremiah: Oh, I'm in London :)14:30
jeremiahqwerty12_N800: London rocks.14:30
qwerty12_N800Yep, except for the East part which is where I live :D, pretty boring in this parr. But Central London is great :D14:31
infobot_qwerty12_N800 meant: Yep, except for the East part which is where I live :D, pretty boring in this part. But Central London is great :D14:31
lardmanand there's some terrible music there too ;p14:32
qwerty12_N800Gonna take the album with you to India? :p14:33
lardmanyeah definitely, though engine drone might sound better :p14:33
qwerty12_N800lol :D14:34
jeremiahOkay! No one say anything interesting or talk about cool things, I'm trying to stay focused in my text editor!14:35
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* Stskeeps dl's Mer to his 770 MMC14:39
* lardman writes code to detect zero crossings14:39
derflardman: What are you up to these days?14:40
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lardmanderf: sorry, had to pop to lab, am doing thermographic analysis work still14:59
lardmanand shearographic for that matter15:00
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derfSounds like a party.15:00
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suihkulokkidoes someone use succesfully garage git repos?15:01
lardmanwell it's quite interesting, but they I like DSP programming so who am I to talk ;)15:01
lardmanfood time15:01
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X-Fadesuihkulokki: Looks like it?
derfI was not being facetious (for once)!15:02
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suihkulokkion git push, I just get:15:03
suihkulokkierror: Cannot access URL, return code 3515:03
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X-Fadesuihkulokki: https error probably.15:04
X-Fadesuihkulokki: Or do you need to use a proxy?15:05
suihkulokkiproxy, da15:05
X-Fadetry setting the https_proxy env var.15:05
suihkulokkiallways set15:06
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X-Fadesuihkulokki: Stupid question, but you changed projectname to your project, did you? :)15:07
suihkulokkiok, being outside proxy makes push proceed15:07
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suihkulokkiX-Fade: yeah :)15:07
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suihkulokkinow I need to figure out insist remote repo to forget whatevet there was (the welcom file) with my tree15:08
X-Fadesuihkulokki: That file used to name your project..15:09
suihkulokkiI have a existing project, with a existing upstream history, which I'd all like to keep when publishing at garage15:10
suihkulokkihow do I proceed? :)15:10
X-Fadesuihkulokki: Shoot a mail to garage at maemo, Ferenc can probably help you out with everything related to git.15:12
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suihkulokkigit is using http dav, which corporate proxy doesn't like15:20
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suihkulokkiX-Fade: could be made a redirect to ?15:40
suihkulokkithe solution to my problem was just merge the existing repo in garage - git will happily do that even if there is no common history15:41
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suihkulokkiFRSFile Name Should Be in This Example Format: gforge-3.0.tar.bz216:15
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suihkulokkididn't like a '+' character in a filename16:22
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t_s_oheh, men people are comparing the future tablet with duke nukem forever, you know they are becoming restless...16:33
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GeneralAntilleslardman|lunch. . . .16:35
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GeneralAntillest_s_o, alternatively: idiotic.16:35
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, we need to fix the Extras descriptions in the invitation emails/garage/assistant.16:36
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Corsacmpf, qemu takes ages to build :/16:36
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: -ENOTIME16:37
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: But I agree ;)16:37
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GeneralAntillesA s/ Extras/Extras/g and s/maemo Extras/Extras/g on would be good.16:45
kozak|workHI StsKeeps got an issue on maemo SDK. Am not able to open the browser16:45
StsN801sdk doesn't include a browser?16:45
kozak|workoh ok16:46
StsN801sdk is just an accelerator/cross compiler so16:46
kozak|workGood to know... we are trying to put a stipped down version of the browser! how do do network configuration for that then?16:46
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Don't you think that Extras points to the community repository?16:46
Corsacn801? :)16:47
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: To make it clearer?16:47
StsN801kozak|work, you can probably build directly on beagleboard16:48
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kozak|work:) oh cool dont have the BB at work! :( got to try it the PC16:48
wazd_n800hello everybody)16:48
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kozak|workAny network settings that could be done on the PC?16:51
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StsN802kozak|work, then try stripping down the x86 vmdk version first and recompile on beagleboard at home16:52
StsN802i guess16:52
kozak|workis it possible to open a console to the SDK?16:54
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StsN802are we talking about scratchbox sdk?16:55
StsN802not really. /scratchbox/login is closest you get16:55
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kozak|workok let me try from home16:59
kozak|workthanks sts16:59
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, dunno, maybe.17:02
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GAN800I'm pushing for Nokia to use just 'Extras' on the device, though.17:04
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KhertanHello !17:05
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Well, it is clear for me. Don't know about end-users.17:05
Khertani've try Mer 0.8 ... and what i can say ... do not try to install advanded-power and hometools ...17:06
Khertanpython2.5-cairo // python-cairo ... conflict17:06
MeizirkkiKhertan, both are working for me :P17:06
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qwerty12_N800advanced-power needs closed source hald-addon-bme anyway, which cannot be redistributed outside of nokia17:08
Khertanhum ... how can i fix my problem with conflict in python2.5-cairo and python-cairo17:09
Khertanremove say to use apt-get -f install to fix dependancy problem17:10
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Khertanand -f install try to install it17:10
Khertanbut i just want to remove one of them17:10
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thopiekarjeremiah: there?17:16
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thopiekarX-Fade: there?17:20
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wazd_n800dude! It's friday!17:22
wazd_n800I thought saturday17:22
KhertanMeizirkki: so you don't have python-cairo conflict ?17:24
MeizirkkiKhertan: i didn't have any problems, but i cannot confirm it now, because my tablet is being repaired17:25
MeizirkkiHAM is stupid anyway, it doesn't care about conflicts :(17:26
thopiekardoes anyone of you know how to fix that?
thopiekarthe repacking of libcrack works fine but it needs the inet, which isn't accessable in sb117:28
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thopiekars/n't accessable/inaccessible/17:29
infobot_thopiekar meant: the repacking of libcrack works fine but it needs the inet, which isinaccessible in sb117:29
thopiekarthanks infobot  :D17:29
infobot_bitte, thopiekar17:29
thopiekarwoo he knows that i'm german17:29
thopiekarnice one infobot :D17:29
KhertanHAM is stupid anyway, it doesn't care about conflicts  << i ve used apt-get17:29
Khertannot better17:29
lardmaninternet is accessible in sb117:30
lardmanat least it is for me17:30
thopiekarlardman: sure? but in case of it isn't..17:30
thopiekar*for me17:30
lardmancan you wget things in sb1?17:31
thopiekarmom i will try it..17:31
thopiekar* give me a file...17:32
lardmanit does say "connection refused" I wonder if that's real, or it just assumes that if it fails for whatever reason...?17:32
thopiekarok have one mom17:32
thopiekarwget works..17:32
thopiekarbut isn't it provided by sb1..17:33
lardmanah well, no idea then, unless the site is down17:33
lardmanor broken17:33
thopiekarone of these overwritings..17:33
thopiekarwith wget it's working..17:33
thopiekarI think it's like I said just these overwritings of some apps are working..17:34
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lardmanpermissions thing?17:34
thopiekardon't think so..17:34
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thopiekarlardman: sb1 is working well.. I've repacked lots of packages atm...17:35
lardmangood good :)17:36
thopiekarwhere should I fill in the content of docbookx.dtd?17:40
thopiekarcan you read it out from the log, lardman?17:40
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thopiekarhi jeremiah17:41
jeremiahwassup thopiekar17:41
thopiekarfine and you?17:41
jeremiahGood thanks.17:41
thopiekarhey jeremiah, do you know how to fix that?
thopiekarit is just a internet problem btw..17:42
thopiekarin sb117:42
lardmanthopiekar: from your pastebin?17:42
thopiekarlardman: or not?17:43
thopiekarI tried to download the file with wget in sb1 and it works..17:43
thopiekar* has worked17:43
lardmanwell it doesn't look like you need to fill it out, just that it tries to access external files and can't17:43
lardman /home/thopiekar/pulseaudio/cracklib2-2.8.12/debian/libcrack2.xml:3: warning: failed to load external entity ""17:44
lardmanis one of them17:44
jeremiahYeah, it looks like your network is not working for pulling down those "external entities"17:44
jeremiahSo it isn't a packaging error, but a network error.17:44
X-FadeWell, it really shouldn't either. That is a security issue waiting to happen ;)17:44
thopiekarargh... could it be that i ported and installed libselinux :D17:45
lardmanwell, with a name like libcrack what can you expect :)17:45
X-FadeIf you would ever submit it to the autobuilder it would fail anyway..17:45
qwerty12_N800lardman: I thought it was for developing arse related utils :)17:45
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thopiekarlardman: wowowo! I need it for policykit and it for pulseaudio..17:46
jeremiahX-Fade: In freemantle, the document /scratchbox/doc/perl.txt has been re-written, where do I send that?17:46
jeremiahThe email address there bounces.17:46
GeneralAntillesAugh! "Fremantle" :P17:46
thopiekarX-Fade: thats why I always tried it to build on my own sb1.17:46
X-Fadejeremiah: DP team. File a bug against sdk?17:47
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thopiekarso what can i do now?17:47
X-FadeThat is Development Platform.17:47
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X-Fadethopiekar: Just download the file and add it in your package?17:47
X-FadeRemove the download code?17:48
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thopiekarwhere can i find out where to put in the files?17:48
X-FadeOr disable doc building as you probably don't want those on your tablet anyway ;)17:48
lardmandisable doc building, music to my ears. How is it done.....?17:49
X-Fade--without-docs ?17:49
lardmanah, magic :)17:49
thopiekarbehind dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -sa?17:50
lardmanprobably as a configure switch17:50
X-Fadethopiekar: Check ./configure --help17:50
X-FadeSee if it is an option.17:50
Corsacmhmh, it seems that maemo booted in my qemu (i saw a progression bar) but now the window is just black17:50
Macerwell.. playing hd mkvs is definately out of the question on this artigo heh17:52
Macerthey should have included a sigma chip on it or something17:53
Macerbut that would probably make the thing a little bigger17:54
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jeremiahthopiekar: Don't forget to add the -D switch to get dependency checki18:00
mikkov_hey, when was that broken texinfo package removed? :)18:00
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X-Fademikkov_: Monday or tuesday, why? :)18:01
luke-jropinions Navit vs Maemo Mapper?18:01
mikkov_it has bugged me a long time, that's why :)18:01
X-Fademikkov_: You should have pinged me then.. Or filed a bug ..18:01
X-FadeAs one of the master porters you should have gotten special treatment ;)18:02
mikkov_X-Fade, was just about to, but then noticed it wasn't there anymore (did ping you once, but had just left)18:02
thopiekarno changes with --without-docs..18:03
mikkov_there should be dedicated place for package bugs18:03
jeremiahI agree, there should be.18:04
X-Fademikkov_: Indeed, but we now have jeremiah who works on the repo full time ;)18:04
X-Fademikkov_: So you can blame him.18:05
jeremiahI think I will set upa simple trac instance so that people can put bugs into my queue18:05
X-Fadejeremiah: I think it is better to use the tools we have.18:05
mikkov_could kind of system be built? Or place in
X-FadeAnd bugzilla is _the_ bugreporting tool of choice..18:05
X-Fadejeremiah: As we have a fulltime bugmaster too.18:06
jeremiahmikkov_: debbugs is a package you can download and install, so yeah.18:06
X-Fadejeremiah: 1+1 -> 3 ?18:06
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mikkov_jeremiah: or trac, I don't which system would be the best18:06
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jeremiahX-Fade: So packaging bugs should officially go into bugzilla?18:07
StsN802lo qwerty1218:07
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mikkov_jeremiah: It hasn't been decided18:07
X-Fadejeremiah: I think they should.18:07
qwerty12hey StsN802 :)18:07
jeremiahmikkov_: debbugs is interesting, but it is big and nasty. trac just rocks.18:07
jeremiahdebbugs is mail oriented, perl based18:07
jeremiahtrac is web oriented, python base18:07
X-Fadejeremiah: But trac doesn't offer a lot of features bugzilla provides.18:08
mikkov_jeremiah: I'm not very familiar with any system. There should just be official place for packaging bugs18:08
jeremiahX-Fade: _Do_ people submit packaging bugs through bugzilla?18:08
jeremiahX-Fade: What do you not have in trac?18:09
X-Fadejeremiah: No, because there is no central place to file bugs.18:09
mikkov_To which "product" should packaging bugs be reported in bugzilla?18:09
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jeremiahSo, to summarize. There is no central place to file packaging bugs. But you think packaging bugs should be filed in bugzilla18:10
X-Fademikkov_: Probably against the repository for now.18:10
X-Fadetimeless had an idea to make an Extras product in bugzilla and components for packages?18:10
lcukbugs about packaging only end up in bugzilla after the original developer has stressed for however long to build a package in the first place18:10
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mikkov_X-Fade: there isn't repository product18:10
X-Fademikkov_: website -> repository, I think.18:11
jeremiahI will just set up something informal for now and we can push it to bugzilla if that doesn't work.18:11
X-Fadejeremiah: Wiki page would probably do for now.18:11
jeremiahI already have that, people don't find it.18:11
jeremiahMaybe I should blog about it.18:12
mikkov_X-Fade: there is only website, no repository18:12
X-Fadejeremiah: You should talk to andre about it..18:12
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* andre__ reads the backlog18:13
X-Fademikkov_: product: Website, component: Repositories18:13
jeremiahspeak of the devil!18:13
jeremiahAnd he shall appear!18:13
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X-Fadejeremiah: There is a start for Extras here:
jeremiahandre__: Can you enable a CC on bugs that relate to packaging so they come to me.18:14
mikkov_X-Fade: ah ok, bugzilla is just too hard to use18:14
andre__it's always been like that...18:14
X-Fademikkov_: Blame andre for not deploying templates yet ;)18:14
X-Fadejeremiah: Just subscribe to the QA contact.18:15
jeremiahX-Fade: A lot of free software projects have actually moved to track and away from bugzilla18:15
andre__jeremiah, i could try, but simply putting the qa contact on your watchlist might be easier :)18:15
mikkov_X-Fade: I was actually looking only from simple search form, which doesn't list components18:15
X-Fadejeremiah: Does trac do mail notification, automatic subscription, groups etc ?18:15
jeremiahX-Fade: Yep.18:15
jeremiahplus git repos, svn repos, wiki, etc.18:16
andre__...while other free software projects lately have moved to bugzilla. but i agree that trac and launchpad have some nice features18:16
jeremiahtons of plugins, written in python18:16
X-Fadejeremiah: Anyway, bugtracking -> andre's turf ;)18:16
X-Fadejeremiah: Fight with him ;)18:16
jeremiahandre__: Let's do the easy thing and I will subscribe to the qa contact.18:16
jeremiahX-Fade: :)18:16
jeremiahAs Michael Jackson said; "I'm a lover, not a fighter."18:17
andre__yeah. and see where he is now. :-P18:17
andre__good choice, michael, good choice.18:17
jeremiahIn Dubai?18:17
jeremiahIn Jail?18:17
andre__got nose?18:17
jeremiahgot glove?18:18
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andre__pah, glove is a workaround! i thought we'd FIX issues here!18:18
jeremiahYou're very optimistic then.18:19
jeremiahandre__: How do I subscribe to the QA ontact?18:21
mikkov_basically all package maintainers should subscibe to repository bugs18:22
X-Fadejeremiah: Users to watch: repositories@maemo.bugs18:22
X-Fadejeremiah: For example ;)18:22
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X-Fadeandre__: Jeremiah needs the confirm bug etc bits too btw..18:23
andre__oh, yeppah18:24
jeremiahX-Fade: thanks, I did that.18:25
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* StsN800 ponders why the train has ä instead of æ as it should in the displays18:28
jeremiahokay, I'm going home now. I will probably be online later and almost certainly for a few hours this weekend.18:28
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X-FadeHave a nice weekend ;)18:29
jeremiahX-Fade: You too X-Fade and thanks for all your help. :) You too andre__!18:29
X-Fadejeremiah: Overloaded yet? Or shall I continue to drop info on you :D18:30
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jeremiahbrain . . . swirling with . . . much data . . .18:30
jeremiahBut sure, drop whatever you think is appropriate. :)18:31
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andre__heh. later :)18:33
mikkov_somebody should ask yerga for his xournal sources and upload working xournal to diablo extras18:35
X-Fademikkov_: Yeah, anidel asked me to remove the broken one in extras-devel because he had no time to fix it.18:36
mikkov_yes it was anidel18:36
qwerty12Why doesn't he just upload the working chinook one?18:36
X-FadeI have no idea.18:36
mikkov_but anidel hasn't released the sources anywhere so nobody can fix it18:36
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mikkov_I once asked for them in ITT18:37
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mikkov_using chinook repositories in diablo is not adequate solution18:39
X-Fademikkov_: Maybe you can send him a mail?18:40
mikkov_I was hoping that somebody else is more interested in xournal :)18:41
X-FadeHeh ;)18:41
X-FadeOk, I have to leave too. Time to get something to eat.18:41
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thopiekarmake: dh_prep: Command not found..18:48
thopiekarthat isn't normal.. isn't it?18:48
StsN800fairly normal18:49
StsN800ran into it too in DIABLO SDK18:49
qwerty12It's the point where you make the rules file debhelper 5 compliant ;)18:49
StsN800because their debhelper is outdated18:50
thopiekarhow should i prepare it ( qwerty12 ) ?18:50
mikkov_usually you just remove those ;)18:51
thopiekarok :D18:51
mikkov_if it works, fine18:51
mikkov_it it doesn't search for what is does18:51
thopiekaris there a way to comment out things?18:51
thopiekarhmm ok18:51
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thopiekarStsN800: whats the version of debhelper on mer?18:52
StsN800mer-scratchbox, 5, mer-native , 718:53
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StsN800due for a update18:53
mikkov_bah, here's what dh_prep does
thopiekarStsN800: your are using vbox too. don't you?18:55
StsN800i use vbox at home, vmware at work18:55
thopiekarand ssh works on both?18:56
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thopiekarI always get this at the end after changing the rules file..19:00
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thopiekar* I just comment'd something out...19:01
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neatojonesbman_ how long should ubuntu take to load gnome on a first boot?19:44
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lardmancan anyone remember if the 770 came with a pair of headphones?20:14
t_s_oyep, i think it did. i have a wsod one somewhere, in retail packaging...20:17
* lardman rumages around for a second pair20:17
lardmanI had one pair fail, from my n800 I think, I'll see if I can find the 770 box in that case20:17
lardmanX-Fade: video call from tablet to tablet has got a big thumbs up from the gf20:18
t_s_oany set will do, one only misses the call control button...20:18
lardmanah, I need a microphone though, or is that one of the stereo channels?20:18
t_s_oah, no, my bad, i had forgotten about the mic thing. altho the N800 have one built in as well as what was on the set20:19
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lardmanyeah but the built in ones don't seem to work with the chat applications afaict20:19
qwerty12hmm? The mic on the N800 is meant to be used for internet calling20:20
qwerty12on the N800 headphones that is20:20
lardmanyeah, what about the mic without headphones?20:20
lardmanon the headphones it works as expected of course20:21
lardmanI only have one pair of headphones that I can find atm though20:21
qwerty12Ah, you mean normal headphones plugged in and using the mic built in on the N800? Or am I far away? :)20:21
t_s_oah, plugging in some headphones may disable the built in one...20:21
lardmantablet to tablet - n800 to n810, no headphones on either = no sound out20:22
lcukthe headphone plug is one of those tri-connector things isnt it - left/right/mic.  when you plug normal headphones in, it shorts the mic20:24
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lcuki used skype a couple of weeks ago without headphones20:24
lardmanhmm, ok, I'll have to try again20:25
lardmanwhat was the sound quality like?20:25
lcukdecent - that was tablet-tablet20:25
lardmancool, will test later20:25
lcukwhich vid calling are you trying20:25
lardmanthe build-in, Google Talk one20:26
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lcukmmm ive got liquid@ setup but never tried it20:26
lcukdoes it do video?20:27
lardmanyeah, works fine20:27
lardmanor at least as well as the camera works - Holly was asking if I'd be that grainy in India :)20:27
lcukfrom pc ?20:27
lardmann800 >-> n81020:27
lcukheh, at least starting with n8x0 you know it wont get much worse :D20:28
* lcuk still cant stop coughing20:28
lcukat least the greenyness has stopped now20:28
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* lcuk ponders how to setup a call20:29
lardmanaargh, omweather has gone mad and is trying to update every 1min, and switching on my inet connection20:29
lcuki screwed omw up and it lost all its repos and the interface went mental on me and displayed no data at all20:30
* lcuk hasnt been able to rectify since20:30
lcukmind you, ive been feeling under the weather myself :D20:30
lcukyou are a red light zone, no wonder holly likes you20:31
lardmanyeah, was the summit!20:31
lcukso is this text only?20:32
lardmanno, voice & video too20:33
lcukbloody nora!20:33
lcuktracy will be impressed20:33
* lardman goes to do washing up20:33
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* pupnik_ jumps up on the sofa and gets dirty pawmarks all over20:36
* pupnik_ runs out20:36
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lardman|awaypin number?20:49
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lardman|awayreboot time, bbiab20:50
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neostriderhello there?20:50
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neostrideranybody have any issues with AIC23 on N770?20:51
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neatojonesneatojones has a N81020:51
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lardmanhmm, are GStreamer callbacks called in the same thread as the GTK stuff?21:03
lardmanwhen my callback is running, GTK is unable to update/accept events21:03
lardmanand even after the callback has finished GTK is unresponsive21:04
lardmanany thoughts?21:04
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RST38h <=== remember this next time you sit onto an office chair21:12
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lardmanhmm, /me wonders about his 8yo gas suspended chair, which he's sitting on now21:16
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RST38hglass: btw:
RST38hglass: I am pretty sure the same applies to symbian apps21:18
glassRST38h: to any21:21
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ShadowJKI'm a freak then, all the apps I installed on my phone are in regular use :-)21:28
ShadowJKExcept for the shoutcast client that's too painful to use to be useful, and radiobee which was easier to use but a crap implementation21:29
ShadowJKputty, opera mobile, opera mini and python in regular use though21:29
ShadowJKand joikuspot21:29
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RST38hShadow: that is because you have an E70 =)21:34
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ShadowJKI guess..21:39
ShadowJKpaying for opera mobile when the included browser is about as stable as the global financial system21:39
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* RST38h checks and wonders what ShadowJK meant21:49
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ShadowJKRST38h, like october except every minute21:50
RST38hShadowJK: In fact, the financial shit has been pending for more than a year before October21:56
RST38hhas been well known to realtors21:56
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lcuklardman, gstreamer runs in its own thread i believe.  and you have reason to be afraid of your chair22:05
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lardmanlcuk: :)22:09
StskeepsLAN parties - where people actually know what tablets are22:10
lardmanlcuk: I think some callbacks - bus ones for example, are performed in the main thread though, or so I read somewhere22:10
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lardmanannoying the whole thing locking up anyway22:10
lcukwhen i am rendering the camera - gstreamer stomps and the camera image tears (yes, i could handle it but its not worth it)22:10
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lardmanare you using queues?22:11
lcukif gstreamer was on my main application thread that would never occur22:11
lardmanso do you render with a fakesink?22:11
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lcuki just eat the data as i get it22:12
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lcuktransfer it onto a liqimage22:12
lardmanhmm, I send the data to an analysis fn, which is pretty intensive, but it does return eventually, and even then the ui is locked up22:15
Stskeeps'lo daperl22:15
* b-man starts to build some hal packages for ubuntu-n8x0 repo and then works on a concept Ubuntu-Installer22:18
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Stskeepsb-man: consider images i guess22:18
Stskeepslook at the imager mer uses22:18
Stskeepsit can build ubuntu images probably too22:19
Stskeepsthen you can probably do ubuntu images like we have mer images22:19
b-mani'll probibly make an installer that gives you the option to install from a bootstrap or rootfs.tar.gz22:21
Stskeeps*nod* well, look into using the imager22:21
Stskeepsyou probably don't have to do muc22:21
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Stskeepsthen you can make tar.gz'es and publish those22:22
Stskeepsas simple to adopt as mer22:22
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* Stskeeps plays with the 77022:23
b-manyou got your 770? :)22:23
Stskeepsdefinately needs some optimizations..22:24
daperlyo Stskeeps, I'm not really here yet.  I'm still parenting for the next 3 hours, then I have about 10 straight days of geek time.  But last night, I compiled (on my n800) and am now running PyWebKitGtk.  Why the f*ck didn't they compile the lenny webkit armel with "--with-hildon?"22:25
Stskeepslol.. dunno, it has --with-hildon? interesting22:26
daperlHave you tried tear?22:26
Stskeepsnop, but i have tried hildonized midori22:26
daperlprobably similar.  what did you think?22:27
Stskeepswebkit on mobile devices is definately the way to go22:27
daperloh, also, https works out-of-the-box with pywebkitgtk22:28
Stskeepsheh, no wonder my 770 took a long time to make this swap file, i made it do a 128gb swap file :P22:28
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daperlyeah, i'm very impressed so far22:28
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Stskeepspywebkitgtk on maemo or on mer?22:29
daperlgb?  i tried to build webkit-1.0.1 on my n800.  it ran out of space.  i think i need to bump up my swap 'cause there's plenty of SD left.22:30
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Stskeepsor /tmp22:31
daperlpywebkitgtk on maemo.  are you running lenny on mer?22:31
Stskeepswell any lenny packages .. most likely exist in mer too22:31
Stskeepsor can be brought to existence22:32
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daperljohnx/qole's debian chroot stuff upgraded well22:32
daperlyeah, i forgot to mention, i'm running pywebkitgtk in the chroot.22:33
daperlit's very fast22:34
Stskeepshehe, yeah22:34
daperlgotta go, but it's gonna be a productive weekend22:35
Stskeepshave fun22:35
Stskeeps'm at a LAN party all weekend22:35
Stskeeps(there now)22:35
daperlas in gaming?22:35
Stskeepscoding, gaming, demos22:35
Stskeepsjust a small private one22:36
daperlhow many?22:36
Stskeeps20ish people22:36
GAN800LAN parties are so 2000. :P22:36
Stskeepssome of us were from a 2000+ people lan party (crew) many years ago22:36
suihkulokkidemos <322:37
Stskeepsyeah, i miss those big parties22:37
daperlsounds like they're making a comeback :-)22:37
Stskeepsit mostly died here in .dk due to hardcore anti-piracy intervention22:38
Stskeepsand people were terrified they were going to come and search their disks and so on22:38
GAN800Random disk searches?22:39
StskeepsGAN800: well, the risk of getting busted with a open FTP ..22:39
Stskeepsthen again, looking back, people were paranoid22:39
RST38hand, looking forward, for a good reason...22:43
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gnutonHello there22:44
suihkulokkithere are some nice demoskene parties in .fi still22:44
b-manhello gnuton :)22:44
gnutonhei b-man :D22:45
RST38hheh, both SAAB and Volvo are fucked.22:45
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* b-man looks into adding the mer imager as a core component of the Ubuntu-Installer22:50
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Stskeepsb-man: or simply generating it before and just delivering .tar.gz's people can install22:51
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Stskeepsgenerate once, use many22:51
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b-manStskeeps: i'll likely go both ways - to keep things up-to-date and also to provide more flexibility for advancesd users. -- so i don't need to build lxde-ubuntu, xubuntu and, kubuntu images witch would be a pain to keep continuously up-to-date - but instead have the installer bootstrap the base system or just grab a base rootfs.tar.gz image and then have it install desktop env a desktop env of your choice from a configuration. ;)23:05
b-man--sorry for double typing :P23:06
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neatojoneshas any out there tried xubuntu?23:07
Stskeepsb-man: ah, maybe a .tar.gz as base and then apt-get on top23:08
b-manyup :)23:09
neatojonesdid you run into gnome-keyring issues like I did?23:09
b-manme or Stskeeps?23:10
b-mani didn't23:10
neatojonesAs an aside...I realize it isn't much RAM but, I forgot where to get rid of all the getty's that start  in mer23:10
neatojonesyeah, bman23:10
neatojonesI'll try it again.  Maybe I just have bad luck23:10
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neatojonesneatojones wishes he could have xubuntu and mer installed at the same time.23:11
b-manyou can use /me for those messages ;)23:11
b-manirc command23:12
* neatojones forgets to use the command/ is lazy23:12
neatojonesI guess it's actually less typing.23:13
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* neatojones never claimed to be the brightest crayon in the box23:13
b-man~burn his N81023:14
* infobot_ pours gasoline all over his N810, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze23:14
b-manlol XD23:14
Shadow__Xwhats wrong with the n81023:16
Shadow__Xi wouldnt mind faster cpu and maybe a tiny gpu23:16
Shadow__Xother than that23:16
b-manit's a joke XD23:16
Shadow__Xalso i found a way to watch close to anything on the n810 with no lag23:16
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neatojonesstand close enough to a tv that you can see its reflection on the screen?23:17
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neatojonesweb page?23:18
* Stskeeps ponders to try to get a more recent kernel going on the 77023:18
* b-man leaves to review some code23:20
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neatojonesany good channels?  I think I tried it a while back but none of the one's I wanted to watch worked23:21
neatojonesHas anyone here ever run e17 on their tablet?23:24
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Shadow__Xneatojones, where you asking me23:25
neatojonesYou too :D23:26
neatojonesI tried compiling it the other day and it got an error23:26
Shadow__Xabout tversity23:26
GAN800Mamona is e1723:26
Shadow__Xi used it to stream videos23:26
Shadow__Xworked pretty good23:26
neatojonesGAN800, tried that.  Liked it, but manona has a repo about the size of my pinky23:27
neatojonesI knew someone had compiled if for deblet23:27
neatojonesbut since it has gone from the repos23:27
neatojonesso, it must be possible to compile, but I don't know why mine failed23:28
neatojonesthe errors didn't make sense.  It complained that I hadn't installed packages that were indeed installed... poosibly, wrong versions???23:28
neatojonesShadow__X :  where from?23:29
neatojones...maybe I shouldn't ask.  lol23:30
Stskeepsandre__: re #3312, AFAIK, Fremantle SDK is so far 100% open source23:31
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Stskeepsandre__: so if they keep this up..23:31
andre__Stskeeps, don't think so :-/23:32
andre__(well, i really don't know, but i simply don't expect it)23:32
neatojoneswhat window manager is it supposed to use?23:32
andre__still matchbox i guess?23:33
Stskeepsneatojones: matchbox223:33
neatojoneshildon on top?23:33
Tobaif you use hildon.Window instead of gtk.Window you're 50% there23:34
Stskeepsandre__: well i have yet to encounter any closed components .. but admittedly i didn't check23:34
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andre__Stskeeps, guess we'll all know more once alpha is out23:35
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Stskeepsyeah, waiting patiently for it23:37
GAN800andre__, don't you mean WORKSFORME rather than INVALID for non-reproducible bugs?23:39
andre__GAN800, depends. if i can't reproduce it's WORKSFORME. if it's not enough info it's INVALID23:41
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r2d2rogersStskeeps: pong ;)23:48
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: can i get you to test a cx3110x and see if it improves any for you? i am also right now trying to compile a 2.6.21 kernel..23:49
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Stskeepsor you still sick at home?23:49
r2d2rogersStskeeps: sure, I'm still home, but on the mend23:50
GAN800What's new and exciting in matchbox2 anyway?23:50
r2d2rogersI'm running imager right now for a fresh install23:50
StskeepsGAN800: it is a library and it has clutter stuff23:50
Stskeepsnot a wm on itself23:50
r2d2rogersthe tracker package didn't want to install so I'm finishing the image manually23:50
Stskeepsyeah, i think it is broken atm23:51
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* GAN800 wonders when we'll see the Tracler beta.23:53
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r2d2rogersStskeeps: will try that as soon as the image run finishes23:55
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* Stskeeps is just waiting for kernel to finish building23:56
Stskeepsso far USB driver was broke23:56
neatojoneshow can I get Mer to log out of the hidon and leave me in a getty screen?23:57
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