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| * Gnu[OFF] is away: Gone away for now | 00:00 | |
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| wazd | wow, Mer post is on the maemo index already) Nice) | 00:17 |
|---|---|---|
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| GeneralAntilles | Council blog's still broked. | 00:19 |
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| * Stskeeps wonders idly how HAL ever got popular | 00:27 | |
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| kkrusty | benson, did you find any replacement for zonescreen? | 00:29 |
| benson | kkrusty: Huh? I haven't been looking for one... | 00:30 |
| * qwerty12_N800 found out why his N800 is treated as a music player in linux after looking at hal - there's an upstream rule to treat 770's & N800's as music players | 00:30 | |
| Stskeeps | heh | 00:30 |
| Stskeeps | cos of the internal sotrage? | 00:30 |
| Stskeeps | er, usb mass storage | 00:30 |
| kkrusty | benson, right. I was just thinking that you were from the forum posting | 00:30 |
| qwerty12_N800 | yep :) | 00:30 |
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| benson | kkrusty: I'm Benson from itT, and I read that thread, but that wasn't my hack... | 00:31 |
| jakemaheu | qwerty, you should remove it | 00:31 |
| kkrusty | benson, right. sorry | 00:32 |
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| benson | what's wrong with zonescreen, anyhow? | 00:33 |
| qwerty12_N800 | jakemaheu: yeah, I remember it annoying me a long while back but no idea what caused it because rhythmbox would run when I connected my N800 and then crash but still leave its process hanging around and it made the N800 "un-unmountable" until I killed rhythmbox | 00:34 |
| kkrusty | benson, nothing wrong with it. Im using linux | 00:34 |
| kkrusty | benson, by the way ZoneScreen doesn't encrypt. | 00:34 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Haha | 00:34 |
| benson | Oh, then just set up a dummy screen and use Xinerama should work. | 00:35 |
| * benson doesn't remember the name of the X driver that uses a virtual framebuffer and no video card. | 00:35 | |
| * benson is pretty sure there was one, though. | 00:35 | |
| Stskeeps | xvfb? | 00:36 |
| benson | But I have to wonder why... Why not just enable the cursor and use Synergy, starting any desktop apps needed via ssh -x ? | 00:36 |
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| skibur | hello | 00:48 |
| jakemaheu | hello, skibur | 00:49 |
| skibur | benson, to speed up Debian on the N800, do I enable CPU on Performance? or CPU on On-Demand? | 00:50 |
| skibur | hello jakemaheu, you have debian on your ITT? | 00:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Internet Tablet Talk? | 00:50 |
| qwerty12_N800 | heh | 00:50 |
| skibur | lol | 00:51 |
| *** lfelipe is now known as lfelipe[AWAY] | 00:51 | |
| skibur | IT | 00:51 |
| jakemaheu | skibur: no, i don't | 00:51 |
| skibur | Any takers? | 00:51 |
| qwerty12_N800 | as suggested by the name, performance. but your battery life will go down faster than it does in ondemand (the default mode) | 00:53 |
| skibur | o i c | 00:54 |
| skibur | thanks | 00:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | No wonder Wii Homebrew isn't working . . . I took my SD card out. | 00:58 |
| skibur | lol | 00:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | I need to buy some more cards. | 00:58 |
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| jakemaheu | General: You do Wii homebrew? | 01:07 |
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| GeneralAntilles | jakemaheu, well, I installed it months ago, played ScummVM a bit then haven't looked at it since. | 01:08 |
| jakemaheu | ah | 01:08 |
| jakemaheu | What version is your Wii? Mine is 3.2U | 01:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | My Wii has gone a bit neglected next to my 360 | 01:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | 3.4, I guess? | 01:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | I just updated it. | 01:09 |
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| jakemaheu | Eek | 01:10 |
| jakemaheu | bad idea | 01:10 |
| jakemaheu | very, VERY BAD IDEA | 01:10 |
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| jakemaheu | wiibrew.org | 01:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Homebrew channel still launches | 01:10 |
| jakemaheu | oh | 01:10 |
| jakemaheu | *phew* | 01:10 |
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| * Stskeeps ponders when johnx will start on the wiimer port | 01:10 | |
| Macor | well... going to shut down this p3 tomorrow | 01:11 |
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| * Macor sheds a tear for his p3 | 01:11 | |
| Macor | heh | 01:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd use my Wii more if it could output VGA | 01:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | As it is, I just don't end up in front of a real TV very often these days. | 01:11 |
| Stskeeps | isn't it 640x480? :P | 01:11 |
| Macor | what is the res of a wii? 420p? | 01:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | VGA cable | 01:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah | 01:12 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 01:12 |
| * Stskeeps ponders what the tiny hole beside charger is on the 770 | 01:12 | |
| GeneralAntilles | For instance, my 360 is hooked up to the VGA on one of my 20" monitors. ;) | 01:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mic | 01:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | No, it's not a reset button | 01:12 |
| Stskeeps | aw | 01:12 |
| Stskeeps | :( | 01:12 |
| Macor | hahaha | 01:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | So don't stick any paperclips in there. :P | 01:12 |
| b-man | lol | 01:12 |
| Macor | that would probably suck | 01:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't laugh, people have done it. :P | 01:12 |
| Macor | hahaha | 01:13 |
| Macor | someone does everything | 01:13 |
| * b-man laughs anyways | 01:13 | |
| Stskeeps | you know, 770s could actually be stacked and clustered.. lends more to the theory of maemo.org used to be run by WSODed 770s | 01:13 |
| b-man | heh | 01:14 |
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| Stskeeps | they lend themselves a little more to stacking and usb connecting than n800s, for instance | 01:14 |
| *** meh is now known as Guest10834 | 01:14 | |
| Guest10834 | i failed to identify cos you didnt tell me | 01:15 |
| mavhc | how are 770s better at stacking? | 01:16 |
| qwerty12_N800 | you failed because you stole someone's nick :p | 01:16 |
| Guest10834 | n810 with keyboards out stack really nicely | 01:16 |
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| Stskeeps | mavhc: well, you can stack it and connect with usb, whereas with n800 you have to kick out the stand.. | 01:16 |
| mavhc | ah | 01:16 |
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| fireun | Macor: there is no room here for bordom | 01:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Guest10834, if it doesn't I'm throwing a temper tantrum. | 01:20 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | I'll launch the nukes! | 01:21 |
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| fireun | http://www.inhabitat.com/2009/02/18/suncat-solar-batteries-by-knut-karlsen/#more-19494 | 01:21 |
| fireun | neat and strangly obvious | 01:22 |
| Macor | fireun: stuck at work | 01:22 |
| fireun | ohh, so sad, stuck with a job | 01:22 |
| Macor | leaving in a cpl hrs tho...just have to set something up | 01:22 |
| Macor | hahaha | 01:22 |
| Macor | got laid off or something? | 01:22 |
| Guest10834 | GeneralAntilles: but isnt the aim to be rotated and more portraity | 01:22 |
| Macor | blame bush | 01:23 |
| fireun | Macor: it doesnt do any good | 01:23 |
| fireun | I've been doing it for years | 01:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Guest10834, how do you mean? | 01:23 |
| Macor | haha | 01:23 |
| Macor | i dont mind my job | 01:23 |
| *** Macor is now known as MaceG1 | 01:24 | |
| MaceG1 | just... im off tomorrow for a week so today seems to be the watched tea pot | 01:24 |
| Guest10834 | arent the rotation bugs marked as fixed in fremantle, and doesnt clutter allow orientation flips on the fly etc | 01:24 |
| fireun | MaceG1: then keep yer bordom to yer self (: | 01:24 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Guest10834, the default mode is going to be landscape. | 01:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Clutter really doesn't have anything to do with orientation. | 01:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | and I'm not actually sure rotation is going to be a part of Fremantle. | 01:26 |
| Guest10834 | how do you know? | 01:26 |
| Guest10834 | and clutter does, because it just uses a rotated actor | 01:26 |
| Guest10834 | you dont know any more than me or (most) others in the chan surely? | 01:27 |
| * Guest10834 is "speculating" | 01:27 | |
| wazd | let's speculate! | 01:28 |
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| wazd | rebelrebelrebelrebelrebel!) | 01:28 |
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| MaceG1 | i need to see if there is an android update when i get home | 01:32 |
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| MaceG1 | i am pretty sure there is one. maybe the open one has a2dp now | 01:33 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Guest10834, rotation involves the XServer and the kernel. | 01:34 |
| Guest10834 | or opengl and no x updates | 01:35 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Not everything uses Clutter | 01:35 |
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| GeneralAntilles | so just rotating Clutter doesn't really help. | 01:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | I know because I tend to pay attention to as many things Maemo as I can. :) | 01:35 |
| Guest10834 | unless x is rerouted through clutter | 01:35 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Isn't clutter just a framework? if your plain gtk app was run through clutter, surely you'd get a performance hit | 01:36 |
| Guest10834 | dunno, isnt the same thing said about using opengl as a compositing manager? | 01:37 |
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| Guest10834 | the speedups by using hardware rendering makes it worthwhile? | 01:37 |
| Guest10834 | anyway, thats for another day | 01:37 |
| Guest10834 | gnite | 01:37 |
| qwerty12_N800 | night | 01:38 |
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| jaem | good morning\ | 01:40 |
| jaem | I happen to have an excess of N810 car mounts. What would be a reasonable price for them, mint in baggies? | 01:40 |
| fireun | fell off a truck, eh? | 01:41 |
| jaem | no | 01:41 |
| jaem | lol | 01:41 |
| jaem | Nokia shipped me a new N810 after the warranty shipment went afoul, and didn't ask for the accessories of the original back | 01:41 |
| jaem | and I don't have a car | 01:41 |
| fireun | ditto | 01:42 |
| fireun | bike mount? | 01:42 |
| jaem | I don't have a bike | 01:42 |
| jaem | or a Segway | 01:42 |
| fireun | what do you do? walk!? | 01:42 |
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| jaem | I could probably afford a Fisher Price roller skate | 01:42 |
| jaem | maybe | 01:42 |
| fireun | I couldnt | 01:42 |
| jaem | fireun: no, we have decent transit around my Uni | 01:42 |
| jaem | fireun: I meant *one* roller skate ;) | 01:42 |
| jaem | our tuition gets us a sweet deal on transit passes | 01:43 |
| fireun | yeah, that would be nice - seems almost required, living next to school that is. | 01:43 |
| fireun | but it costs more | 01:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol . . . Clutter | 01:44 |
| jaem | well, $90 CAD gets us unlimited transit on the buses, water-taxi-things, and the elevated train | 01:44 |
| jaem | for four months | 01:44 |
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| * timeless sighs | 01:53 | |
| timeless | crash-reporter strings are funny | 01:53 |
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| luke-jr | how do I actually put the microSD card in the N810? :/ | 02:06 |
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| jaem | luke-jr: you'll need a mini-SD adapter | 02:07 |
| jaem | it looks like a mini-SD card, but has a receptacle for a micro-SD card | 02:07 |
| jaem | most micro cards come with them | 02:07 |
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| jaem | if yours didn't, well, SD cards are fairly cheap (I can get a half-decent 2GB for $7 CAD) | 02:08 |
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| luke-jr | doh | 02:10 |
| jaem | ;) | 02:10 |
| luke-jr | I just got the 4 GB microSD for $10 | 02:10 |
| jaem | it doesn't have an adapter, then? | 02:11 |
| luke-jr | no | 02:11 |
| luke-jr | supposedly SanDisk doesn't do adapters | 02:11 |
| jaem | are you in the US/Canada? | 02:11 |
| luke-jr | yes.. | 02:11 |
| luke-jr | but only this one was on sale I think | 02:11 |
| wazd | wow, we have 8gig SD for 30 bucks :( | 02:11 |
| jaem | check out http://ncix.com or http://ncixusa.com respectively | 02:11 |
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| luke-jr | jaem: why? | 02:11 |
| jaem | they're usually the best deals around, on good stuff | 02:11 |
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| jaem | I do all my shopping there | 02:12 |
| jaem | even groceries! | 02:12 |
| jaem | okay, kidding there | 02:12 |
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| jaem | but they make the chain stores look like complete ripoffs | 02:12 |
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| jaem | wazd: I tried out ATI85 today (just got my tablet back), and it looks great | 02:14 |
| luke-jr | wtf, miniSD costs more? :/ | 02:14 |
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| jaem | a miniSD might | 02:14 |
| luke-jr | jaem: I don't think they're around here | 02:14 |
| jaem | try a microSD - they come with adapters | 02:14 |
| luke-jr | I just bought a microSD and they don't | 02:15 |
| jaem | luke-jr: wait for a sale, then - sometimes they have $5 shipping, if your order a certain amount | 02:15 |
| jaem | most of the ones I've seen on that site do | 02:15 |
| luke-jr | I don't want to wait a day | 02:15 |
| luke-jr | sigh | 02:15 |
| luke-jr | and $5 shipping is way too much | 02:16 |
| luke-jr | called the store, $15 for 4 GB miniSD | 02:16 |
| luke-jr | sigh | 02:16 |
| jaem | :( I can understand that, but FWIW: http://www.ncixus.com/products/34125/PSF8GMCSDHC43P/Patriot/ | 02:16 |
| luke-jr | bbiab I guess ☹) | 02:16 |
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| neatojones | is hildon-desktop the command needed to start hildon? | 02:21 |
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| wazd | jaem: thanks) | 02:23 |
| wazd | http://www.infectious.com/critique/wazd/i-love-blogging-pattern/912 <- you can vote or discuss if you like :) | 02:23 |
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| jaem | nice! | 02:27 |
| jaem | on a side note, and out of curiousity, does anyone make patterned N-series cling-on skins? (I like the brushed finish, myself, but it would be interesting) | 02:28 |
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| wazd | dunno, got this contest by chance :) | 02:34 |
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| neatojones | Does anyone know what the command to start hildon from a terminal? | 03:18 |
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| fred23 | Hi everybody ! I've got a general question : Is 'gdbserver' from the maemo repositories ... thread-capable ? I'm having the hardest time remote-debugging simple multi-threaded piece of code on the N810 running maemo... Maybe gdbserver is not thread-enabled.... any hint ? | 03:42 |
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| timeless | fred23: um | 03:49 |
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| timeless | at various times i've had luck using gdbserver w/ gecko | 03:49 |
| timeless | which is threaded | 03:49 |
| timeless | and at times, i've had no luck | 03:49 |
| fred23 | but basically, you don't recall gdbserver having a specific thread-related bug... | 03:50 |
| fred23 | timeless: but basically, you don't recall gdbserver having a specific thread-related bug... | 03:51 |
| timeless | i think i do, but i don't remember which versions of which pieces were to blamek, and certainly not which repositories | 03:51 |
| timeless | personally, i'd basically build gdb6.6 and gdb6.8 and ignore the repos | 03:51 |
| timeless | you may have slightly better luck w/ 6.6 | 03:51 |
| fred23 | yeah.. I'm currently using 6.8 | 03:52 |
| fred23 | think I'll try that...see what I get | 03:52 |
| fred23 | thanks | 03:52 |
| luke-jr | /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/mmc2 type vfat (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,noatime,nodiratime,uid=29999,fmask=0133,dmask=0000,codepage=cp437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=mixed,utf8) | 03:54 |
| luke-jr | /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/mmc1 type vfat (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,uid=29999,fmask=0133,dmask=0000,codepage=cp437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=mixed,utf8) | 03:54 |
| fred23 | timeless: sorry... one last thing... Is gdbserver packaged with gdb ? Or it got its own sources and repos ? | 03:54 |
| luke-jr | how is this possible? :x | 03:54 |
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| timeless | go straight to fsf.org, you build gdb+gsbserver together | 03:54 |
| timeless | and you really want to use the exact pair | 03:55 |
| fred23 | ah ! you got it ! thanx | 03:55 |
| luke-jr | how is /dev/mmcblk0p1 mounted twice? :x | 03:56 |
| luke-jr | and why is there no kismet port? :x | 03:57 |
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| * timeless frowns | 04:14 | |
| timeless | anyone here have any complaints about my strings? :) | 04:14 |
| neato_jones | strings? | 04:15 |
| timeless | neato_jones: what language do you use your device in? | 04:15 |
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| neato_jones | English, US | 04:16 |
| timeless | if you enable extras-devel, you'll find a package which replaces the English US strings | 04:16 |
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| GAN800 | timeless, yes. | 04:16 |
| GAN800 | But they're all personal. :P | 04:16 |
| timeless | (you can't safely remove it, but hopefully you won't mind) | 04:16 |
| neato_jones | ah | 04:18 |
| neato_jones | I'm running Mer anyway. :) | 04:18 |
| bjv | i was thinking about reflashing my 770, it seems to get buggy after a while | 04:18 |
| timeless | oh | 04:19 |
| timeless | well, it should work in mer too | 04:19 |
| bjv | and then i noticed on the wikipedia page a link to a memory corruption patch? | 04:19 |
| timeless | (mostly, some minor issues) | 04:19 |
| bjv | apparently only recent 2007hacker editions dont need the patch | 04:19 |
| bjv | and looking for the kernel module the patch deploys, i dont see such a file on my os2006 | 04:19 |
| bjv | i thought i had the most recent nokia blessed 770 os, though. | 04:20 |
| bjv | so,, | 04:20 |
| bjv | should i move to the 'hacker edition' just for stability? | 04:20 |
| bjv | any 770 owners here? | 04:20 |
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| Shadow__X | hey anyone else having an issue trying to update canola and carman | 07:14 |
| Macer | GOD THE GPL AND LGPL ARE JUST FULL OF SHIT | 07:22 |
| Macer | what a farce!.. they are almost like communism | 07:23 |
| benson | Macer: THEN DON'T USE ANYTHING LICENSED UNDER THEM!!!!! :P | 07:24 |
| doc|home | Macer: communism requires force. No one is requiring you to use GPL etc | 07:25 |
| neatojones | If I'm using Mer, and I want to have swap for my N810 external should it be listed as /dev/mmcblk1pX or /dev/mmcblk0pX in fstab? I tried /dev/mmcblk1p2 (for external part 2, but it didn't seem to work) | 07:28 |
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| Mousey | yah, i never understood the "gpl is restrictive" argument | 07:29 |
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| Macer | :) i was just joking. they had a big argument in here about the gpl and lgpl a couple days ago.. it cracked me up | 07:44 |
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| Shadow__X | anyone having issues updating conola2 and carman | 07:50 |
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| Shadow__X | anyone use canola 2 here | 08:13 |
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| fireun | only for frying fish | 08:25 |
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| jaem | hello again | 08:32 |
| jaem | when installing Mer 0.8 from the tarball, on the internal MMC of an N810, how do you add it to the bootmenu list manually? | 08:32 |
| jaem | I think I've done this before, but not in a while... | 08:32 |
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| jaem | actually, more to the point, is there any documentation on the new bootmenu anywhere? I didn't see much | 08:35 |
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| fireun | I would try again earlier in the day | 08:41 |
| fireun | room goes idle around this time | 08:41 |
| jaem | ah - fair enough | 08:41 |
| jaem | darn - I'd like to try Mer | 08:42 |
| jaem | I suppose I could just unpack the auto-install deb and muck around with the shell scripts until I figure it out | 08:42 |
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| * jaem will try that | 08:42 | |
| neatojones | jaem: which bootmenu did you use? | 08:44 |
| jaem | whichever comes with console-tools | 08:44 |
| jaem | the info seems to be scattered across the forums/irc/general-interwebs, and it's rather confusing as to what is relevant to any given version | 08:45 |
| neatojones | jaem: hmm. I haven't used that one in a while. isn't there a command like pb-easy | 08:45 |
| neatojones | or something | 08:45 |
| jaem | yes, I used the pb command | 08:45 |
| neatojones | maybe type pb | 08:45 |
| jaem | but Mer comes as an auto-installer, or a tarball | 08:45 |
| neatojones | the two are separate commands. One of them will install it automatically. | 08:45 |
| jaem | they only install the bootmenu | 08:46 |
| neatojones | Mer uses an auto-installer to install a tarball | 08:46 |
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| jaem | yes | 08:46 |
| neatojones | if you use the auto-installer, I think it requires you to install a version of bootmenu | 08:46 |
| jaem | but I wanted to manually install it with my own partitioning setup == manual install | 08:46 |
| neatojones | you can do that. I think it's the only way that it actually works. | 08:46 |
| neatojones | I tried it the other way and it crashes. | 08:47 |
| neatojones | if you have your partitions already made, just fire up the installer | 08:47 |
| jaem | does it give you the option? I suppose I should have tried first... my apologies | 08:47 |
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| jaem | I thought "auto" meant "auto" | 08:47 |
| neatojones | Yes. | 08:47 |
| neatojones | you can choose simple or advanced | 08:48 |
| neatojones | select advanced | 08:48 |
| jaem | ah | 08:48 |
| neatojones | and it will then ask if you want to partition or if you want to keep your own partitions | 08:48 |
| jaem | similar to Deblet? I can do that, then | 08:48 |
| jaem | thanks | 08:48 |
| neatojones | it then asks if you want to format. if you format, it crashes the installer for me. | 08:48 |
| jaem | ok | 08:48 |
| neatojones | so, format then run the installer | 08:48 |
| jaem | sure | 08:48 |
| neatojones | also, I had to select a fat partition or the installer crashed, but it didn't really seem to care if it was really a fat partition or not. | 08:49 |
| jaem | does console-tools install the same bootmenu that the Mer installer does? | 08:49 |
| jaem | wait... fat for / ? | 08:49 |
| neatojones | it works a different way whn it set it up, but has the same purpose | 08:49 |
| neatojones | I don't know. I think it's in case you want to have a fat partition. I don't use one either. It works fine | 08:50 |
| jaem | are there any docs on either bootmenu? I'd like to know how to set up custom items, or fix any borkage, but I haven't found much clear info | 08:50 |
| neatojones | just search iTT. | 08:51 |
| jaem | I have been... I was just hoping it was consolidated somewhere >_< | 08:51 |
| neatojones | Nope. Not that I know of. SOrry | 08:51 |
| neatojones | Their both a little buggy too. Just do your best | 08:52 |
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| * hahlo wonders why all the arms couldn't be mutually same like the x86s are | 09:11 | |
| qgil_afk | jeremiah: it's just me or http://blog.jeremiahfoster.com/?p=35 doesn't appear aggregated at http://maemo.org/news ? | 09:11 |
| johnx | hahlo, what makes you think they aren't? | 09:12 |
| hahlo | omap | 09:13 |
| hahlo | like to run arm lenny in phone | 09:14 |
| johnx | and why can't you? | 09:14 |
| hahlo | i don't know doesn't seem to boot | 09:15 |
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| johnx | well how are you trying to boot it? | 09:16 |
| hahlo | got bootloader called wlilo.exe | 09:18 |
| hahlo | seems like it needs omap branch kernel | 09:19 |
| johnx | aaaah, ok, now I see what you mean: from a kernel perspective | 09:19 |
| hahlo | yes | 09:20 |
| johnx | individual ARM SoCs are more different from each other than x86 chipsets/motherboards | 09:21 |
| hahlo | yes thats what i mean | 09:22 |
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| johnx | x86 chipsets/mobos have compatibility so they can run DOS. ARM SoCs have nothing like that to force vendors to maintain compatibility | 09:25 |
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| qgil_afk | do you see http://blog.jeremiahfoster.com/?p=35 aggregated in Planet Maemo or appearing at http://maemo.org/news | 09:44 |
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| StsN800 | qgil_afk, there was some issue not even community council blogs were aggreated | 09:46 |
| StsN800 | earlier | 09:46 |
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| L0cutus | giorno | 09:52 |
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| aquatix | morning all | 10:01 |
| johnx | mornin' | 10:01 |
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| jaem | morning | 10:07 |
| RST38h | moo all | 10:10 |
| jaem | hey RST38h | 10:10 |
| Stskeeps | morn jaem - so you succeeded with the tablet delivery? | 10:11 |
| oli | morning :) | 10:11 |
| jaem | yes, actually - I got the tracking number this morning, and it was already here by the time I read the e-mail | 10:11 |
| jaem | so, I'm pretty happy | 10:11 |
| Stskeeps | wasn't it you with the UPS charge or how was it? | 10:11 |
| jaem | yep | 10:12 |
| Stskeeps | and the broken internal MMC | 10:12 |
| jaem | yep again | 10:12 |
| Stskeeps | good | 10:12 |
| jaem | this is actually a recurring circumstance for me... I buy something expensive, it breaks, the warranty gets messed up somehow, I spend a week on the phone, and I get something good out of it | 10:13 |
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| jaem | usually an upgrade, in the past, although this time they just didn't ask for the old accessories back, so I have a spare battery, etc. | 10:13 |
| aquatix | jaem: well, at least it works out for the best :) | 10:13 |
| jaem | indeed | 10:13 |
| jaem | at least Nokia is pleasant to deal with, even when they're unhelpful | 10:13 |
| jaem | I've been trying to set up Mer while watching a movie... | 10:14 |
| jaem | it won't boot - just crashes before the splash - is that a known issue? I didn't see it on the release page | 10:14 |
| Stskeeps | er, didn't we have a odd issue before too? | 10:15 |
| Stskeeps | and define "before the splash" | 10:15 |
| Stskeeps | before the pretty mer logo? | 10:15 |
| jaem | yes - the last thing I see is the Nokia logo with the "booting from..." message, and then it crashes | 10:16 |
| Stskeeps | ok, and you installed the bootmenu and then utilities->install bootmenu, right? | 10:17 |
| Stskeeps | before installing mer | 10:17 |
| jaem | yes | 10:17 |
| jaem | and it is installed | 10:17 |
| Stskeeps | did you use simple or advanced install? | 10:17 |
| jaem | advanced - I'd already partitioned/formatted with console-tools | 10:17 |
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| Stskeeps | can i see your /etc/bootmenu.d item? | 10:19 |
| jaem | one sec | 10:19 |
| neatojones | oh | 10:20 |
| neatojones | mine did that too. | 10:20 |
| neatojones | he needs to change the /dev/mmcblkXpX | 10:20 |
| neatojones | it gets it wrong for some reason | 10:20 |
| jaem | no, it seems to be correct | 10:20 |
| jaem | let me doublecheck | 10:20 |
| neatojones | mind is backwards. | 10:21 |
| neatojones | try switching it and see if it works | 10:21 |
| Stskeeps | neatojones: there shouldn't be any mmcblkwhatever in it | 10:21 |
| Stskeeps | if there is, b-man has a bug. it should write ${INT_CARD} or ${EXT_CARD} | 10:22 |
| neatojones | for some reason. My Mer wants to load with the /dev/mmcblk0p1 and /dev/mmcblk0p2 is the swap even though it ought to be a 1 instead of 0 | 10:22 |
| neatojones | yeah, I noticed that too | 10:22 |
| neatojones | it was that way before for deblet. Now with the version used for mer it sticks the mmcblk part in there instead | 10:22 |
| neatojones | not sure why. Just know how to fix it | 10:22 |
| Stskeeps | we had a problem in the installer at first regarding internal/external detection | 10:23 |
| Stskeeps | it should be fixed now | 10:23 |
| Stskeeps | but it definately shouldn't put mmcblk in the items | 10:23 |
| Stskeeps | jaem: can i see it? | 10:23 |
| jaem | the installer switch is fixed | 10:23 |
| jaem | sts: sorry - one sec | 10:23 |
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| jaem | http://pastebin.ca/1341832 | 10:26 |
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| SaBer | Hi, does anyone know how to get the launch feedback to display (Appname - Loading) when starting up a Qt application? | 10:27 |
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| neatojones | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=264519&postcount=90 | 10:27 |
| jaem | neatojones: I'm using the internal card | 10:28 |
| jaem | but thanks | 10:28 |
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| neatojones | k. | 10:29 |
| neatojones | check your fstab too | 10:30 |
| neatojones | maybe its mounting something wrong | 10:30 |
| Stskeeps | jaem: yeah, it should be ${INT_CARD} instead of mmcblk0 | 10:30 |
| Stskeeps | also make sure p2 is actually the ext3 partition | 10:31 |
| jaem | I'll try that, and, it is | 10:31 |
| neatojones | I think the new version is mixing something up and though it should be ${INT_CARD}, I bet mmcblk1 would work | 10:31 |
| neatojones | it's backwards for some reason. | 10:32 |
| Stskeeps | jaem: and then refresh_bootmenu.d | 10:33 |
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| neatojones | Do they make blue-tooth mice? I'd assume so... | 10:35 |
| jaem | sts: thanks - that works | 10:35 |
| jaem | neatojones: yes, but I can't think of any off the top of my head | 10:35 |
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| neatojones | Does suspend work in Mer? I'm too scared to try it. | 10:37 |
| Stskeeps | er, no clue, don't think so :P | 10:37 |
| neatojones | lol | 10:37 |
| SaBer | neatojones: I can recommend the logitech v470 | 10:38 |
| Stskeeps | neatojones: suspend is many things, what do you mean exactyl? | 10:38 |
| neatojones | the little logout that is available from most window managers like gnome, kde, xfce | 10:38 |
| neatojones | etc | 10:38 |
| neatojones | probably suspend to hard drive | 10:38 |
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| neatojones | whatever that means... | 10:39 |
| jaem | as in, hibernate? | 10:39 |
| neatojones | when you have none | 10:39 |
| jaem | does Mer have that feature? | 10:39 |
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| Stskeeps | doubt it, our kernel doesn't exactly lend itself to it | 10:39 |
| neatojones | hildon def. doesn't | 10:39 |
| Soccerties | I'm considering reflashing my n800 to diablo but can't find any info on how navicore runs under diablo, anyone here have some insight | 10:40 |
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| Stskeeps | Soccerties: probably as decent or more than on the former version.. | 10:41 |
| jaem | Stskeeps: I was curious about something... | 10:41 |
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| Stskeeps | jaem: mm? | 10:41 |
| jaem | I remember reading in the Maemo bugzilla that TI didn't approve of the kernel patch regarding the MMC slot, included in the rotation kernel, and said that (in theory) it could cause borkage | 10:42 |
| jaem | I have no reason to suspect it, but come to think of it, my internal MMC did die shortly after installing that... I'm not saying that's the problem, but I thought I should throw that out there | 10:42 |
| jaem | it was otherwise out of the blue | 10:43 |
| jaem | is that a possibility? | 10:43 |
| Soccerties | thanks Stskeeps, anyone here use the linuxMCE orbiter under diablo | 10:43 |
| Stskeeps | jaem: hmm. | 10:43 |
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| jaem | they said it was operating out of spec... | 10:43 |
| Stskeeps | jaem: as in, nokia said so or? | 10:43 |
| Stskeeps | with your device | 10:43 |
| jaem | I believe TI said it, as quoted by a Nokia rep - you can check the bugzilla | 10:44 |
| Stskeeps | k | 10:44 |
| jaem | being an engineering student, operating a chip out of spec doesn't sound like a good idea to me | 10:44 |
| Stskeeps | well might be worth posting about on iTT, fanoush would probably pick up on it | 10:44 |
| jaem | so I'm somewhat concerned | 10:44 |
| Stskeeps | then again being an engineering, operating something out of spec to make it push that extra inch.. | 10:45 |
| Stskeeps | an=in | 10:45 |
| jaem | true | 10:45 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:45 |
| qwerty12 | That mode has always been unsupported by Ti though, it says in the kernel code. When you make it run at a higher speed, it's generally assumed that you take the risk. | 10:45 |
| Stskeeps | morning Jaffa | 10:45 |
| jaem | I just didn't want some idiot to start telling everyone that Maemo/Fanoush/whoever is "wrecking tablets", or some such thin | 10:45 |
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| jaem | so I was hesitant to post it | 10:45 |
| jaem | people tend to sensationalize things like that | 10:46 |
| Stskeeps | jaem: nah - but i would have asked you to reflash kernel if you had told me back then | 10:46 |
| jaem | but if you think so, I'll post it (with caveats) | 10:46 |
| jaem | well, I did | 10:46 |
| Stskeeps | and it still failed? | 10:46 |
| jaem | and the card was definitely toast | 10:46 |
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| Stskeeps | mmk | 10:46 |
| Stskeeps | well post one about a curious occurence of the internal MMC actually dying | 10:47 |
| jaem | fresh flash | 10:47 |
| jaem | okay - sure | 10:47 |
| Stskeeps | and state your theory | 10:47 |
| Stskeeps | it might help fix some of the patches for n810 i guess | 10:47 |
| Stskeeps | because i have actually never heard of internal MMC dying before | 10:47 |
| jaem | willdo, after my show is over | 10:47 |
| jaem | well, neither have I | 10:47 |
| jaem | but if it has a non-zero possibility of occurence, I could have been the unlucky one | 10:48 |
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| qwerty12 | SaBer, make a /usr/share/dbus-1/services/<name of program>.service (example here: http://pastebin.com/d5ff61c7e) and put an "X-Osso-Service=" field in your desktop file and give it the same name you gave in your dbus service file. Then learn how to osso_initialize and put that in your code to stop that program being killed. | 10:49 |
| Stskeeps | jaem: you have mer running now, btw? | 10:49 |
| Stskeeps | on a n810 | 10:49 |
| neatojones | I tried that high speed kernel and it messed up a few files on my drive | 10:50 |
| qwerty12 | SaBer, after that, you'll get a starting notification | 10:50 |
| neatojones | I have a class 6 micro SD too | 10:50 |
| neatojones | so, I quit using it | 10:50 |
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| neatojones | I blamed the kernel anyway. Never had any problems other than that | 10:50 |
| jaem | sts: yes, just thinking of a root pw - I'll have it up in a minute | 10:51 |
| SaBer | qwerty12: ok thanks, I'll take a look at that | 10:51 |
| Stskeeps | jaem: if so, can you do me a favour and apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade, and restart, and tell me if Fn starts working | 10:51 |
| Stskeeps | we have been struggling with HAL and my sshable n810 says the right thing now but .. :P | 10:52 |
| jaem | gladly - that was actually the first thing I was going to do anyways | 10:52 |
| jaem | sure | 10:52 |
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| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, did you test mer3 on x86 and zaurus successfully? | 10:52 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: yeah, i think we're on mer4 now.. | 10:53 |
| qwerty12 | o rly | 10:53 |
| qwerty12 | What fucked up? | 10:53 |
| Stskeeps | 10-x11-keymaps.fdi is fucking nasty | 10:53 |
| qwerty12 | ah | 10:53 |
| Stskeeps | basically HAL callouts are done after FDI gathering information | 10:53 |
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| Stskeeps | and this particular one, designed to sync console keyboard info and X info, overwrote anything FDI information had provided | 10:54 |
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| jaem | sts, qwerty: is Fn supposed to work on Mer 0.8? | 10:54 |
| Stskeeps | debian-setup-keyboard, obviously | 10:54 |
| Stskeeps | jaem: yes, after this apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade :P | 10:54 |
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| qwerty12 | jaem, supposed to after running something but I don't know how :) | 10:54 |
| Stskeeps | otherwise you need to do a trick (setxkbmap -model nokiarx44 -layout us) :P | 10:54 |
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| Stskeeps | this HAL thing makes it autodetect now | 10:54 |
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| Stskeeps | rzr: i have a 770 now so i hope i can improve things :) | 10:55 |
| jaem | ah - that makes sense, but autodetect is important ;) | 10:55 |
| rzr | great | 10:55 |
| qwerty12 | I went digging through a horrible diff so we could have autodetect :/ | 10:55 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: we could probabably have had it earlier but stupid 10-x11-keymap.fdi | 10:56 |
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| qwerty12 | I needed the hal autodetection for powerlaunch anyway | 10:56 |
| wazd | morning everybody) | 10:57 |
| Stskeeps | morning wazd | 10:57 |
| jaem | morning wazd | 10:57 |
| jaem | sts: just looking up my WPA key, and then I'll be good to go | 10:58 |
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| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, is there any harm in making tablet wireless rmmod cx3110x anyway - strictly speaking, isn't "if [ x$DEBLET_RUN_FROM_LINUXRC = 'x' ]; then " outdated as you have the incompatible bootmenu message? | 10:59 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12: hmm. lemme just see that code | 11:00 |
| qwerty12 | To get wireless working, I have to remove that if statement and make the modprobe into an insmod. I'd suggest just making modprobe line into modprobe || insmod | 11:01 |
| Stskeeps | i don't understand why the modprobe fails.. when i build the images i do actually have a fake inits | 11:01 |
| Stskeeps | inifs | 11:01 |
| Stskeeps | .. initfs | 11:01 |
| jaem | qwerty12: is the N810's keyboard stow/unstow switch supposed to show/hide the on-screen-kbd? | 11:02 |
| X-Fade | Morning | 11:02 |
| jaem | morning | 11:02 |
| qwerty12 | Meiz pointed me to it last time and he was right, I edited it before I booted 0.8 and it worked with network-manager | 11:02 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: feel free to submit a patch to bzr :P | 11:03 |
| qwerty12 | jaem, I don't think so, the h-i-m plugin available is pretty lacking :/ | 11:03 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, will do, would be nice not having to edit it with each release :) | 11:03 |
| Stskeeps | bzr branch lp:~mer-committers/m-r/tablet-wireless | 11:03 |
| Stskeeps | it should do it based on `uname -r` though | 11:04 |
| qwerty12 | It really doesn't and I know mine is still 2.6.21-omap1 :) | 11:05 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 11:05 |
| qwerty12 | well, "doesn't" for me | 11:05 |
| wazd | http://www.infectious.com/critique/wazd/i-love-blogging-pattern/912 <- vote if you like :) Now!11 :) | 11:06 |
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| qwerty12 | I have to register *cries* | 11:06 |
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| wazd | damn | 11:06 |
| wazd | hate these systems | 11:07 |
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| jaem | sts: upgrading... | 11:07 |
| qwerty12 | I hate it when they put the UK at the top, I instinctively go to the bottom... | 11:07 |
| qwerty12 | wazd, voted | 11:08 |
| wazd | qwerty12: thaaaanks! :) | 11:08 |
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| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, grr, you didn't tell me I'd need ssh keys, I don't usually use them :P | 11:10 |
| qwerty12 | (insecure bastard that I am) | 11:10 |
| hahlo | offtopic does anyone know place where to camplaint pc-suite :P | 11:10 |
| Stskeeps | trust me, you'll need them :P | 11:10 |
| jeremiah | lcuk: ping | 11:12 |
| jeremiah | BRB | 11:12 |
| Stskeeps | oh, neat, i just got my windows to share its internet connection with my 770 | 11:12 |
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| hahlo | dual core winblows went to its knees when run pc-suite which started 3 copies of it :P | 11:13 |
| qwerty12 | hahlo, pc suite takes time on my brother's laptop when one is running :P | 11:14 |
| hahlo | yes it is awful | 11:15 |
| qwerty12 | Oh. I do have ssh keys already there. Probably from the time when I needed them for extras uploading :/ | 11:16 |
| jaem | what is "pc-suite"? | 11:16 |
| qwerty12 | Nokia PC Suite for their phones, does file transfer and syncing and installation of apps and some other things | 11:17 |
| jaem | oh right | 11:17 |
| * Stskeeps stares at 770 | 11:19 | |
| Stskeeps | wlan0 -and- wlan1? :P | 11:19 |
| qwerty12 | You'd think with two interfaces that it wouldn't be allergic to n signals... | 11:19 |
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| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, before I commit, does this look ok: http://pastebin.com/d63184fd | 11:20 |
| jaem | sts: Mer boots fine after dist-upgrade | 11:22 |
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| jaem | although, on shutdown, there is a graphics glitch where a cursor blinks overtop of the shutdown splash | 11:22 |
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| Stskeeps | jaem: yeah.. | 11:23 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12: yes | 11:23 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: and now to generate a source package, make a directory and bzr export DESTDIR WHERE-YOUR-CHECKOUT-IS | 11:24 |
| Stskeeps | and cd DESTDIR; dpkg-buildpackage -S -us -uc | 11:24 |
| qwerty12 | I thought I was just commiting? | 11:24 |
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| qwerty12 | Oh. | 11:24 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, well, you are welcome to generate a new version too and put it up | 11:24 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:24 |
| wazd | RST38h: hola | 11:24 |
| qwerty12 | You want me to upload to the builder? | 11:24 |
| Stskeeps | saves me time and gives you an valuable lesson | 11:25 |
| RST38h | hey wazd | 11:25 |
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| RST38h | "...And J. Edgar Hoover's FBI found itself quietly consumed with the vexing question of whether Valenti was gay." | 11:30 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, committed. Wow, that really didn't take long to pick up. :) | 11:30 |
| RST38h | (yes, MPAA Valenti) | 11:30 |
| jaem | um... where's that quote from? | 11:31 |
| timeless | ask google? | 11:31 |
| RST38h | http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/02/18/AR2009021803819.html?nav=igoogle | 11:32 |
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| Stskeeps | ok, so WPA2 does work on 770 .. but the wifi scanner is a bit fucky | 11:35 |
| Stskeeps | rzr: if you want wifi on your 770 mer it is fairly simple | 11:36 |
| Stskeeps | but i use wpa_supplicant fori t | 11:36 |
| rzr | i dont have it anymore | 11:37 |
| Stskeeps | k | 11:37 |
| rzr | some of my friend took it w/ it at WMC | 11:37 |
| rzr | anyway nice trick for the wifi , i'll test it when i got it back | 11:38 |
| rzr | now i am busy w/ openmoko http://www.newlc.com/en/openmoko-deb-packages-and-fosdem-debian-video | 11:38 |
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| Stskeeps | *nod* | 11:38 |
| Stskeeps | saw some of wazd's mockups? | 11:38 |
| Stskeeps | they are intentionally made for the openmoko formfactor so | 11:39 |
| Stskeeps | er, freerunner | 11:39 |
| timeless | good day | 11:40 |
| Stskeeps | morning timeless | 11:40 |
| wazd | timeless: hola | 11:41 |
| jaem | hey, timeless | 11:42 |
| rzr | <Stskeeps> saw some of wazd's mockups? | 11:43 |
| rzr | no , do you have some links ? | 11:43 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa, GeneralAntilles: Feed issue fixed. | 11:43 |
| jaem | rzr: http://tabletui.wordpress.com , to start | 11:43 |
| Stskeeps | X-Fade: now there's a double community highlights | 11:44 |
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| X-Fade | Stskeeps: yeah, I'll try to wipe one ;) | 11:44 |
| Stskeeps | not that seeing GA's smiling face twice doesn't light up your day, but .. | 11:44 |
| X-Fade | Don't want GA to karma whore on two articles at the same time. | 11:45 |
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| rzr | jaem: i dont see anything on om devices ? | 11:46 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, tablet-wireless should be binary-indep too... | 11:47 |
| jaem | I misread what you said | 11:47 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: yeah, some of them are in need of cleanu | 11:47 |
| Stskeeps | p | 11:47 |
| jaem | >_< | 11:47 |
| Stskeeps | rzr: http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2009/02/18/mer-ui-scalability/ , 640x480 layout | 11:47 |
| qwerty12 | Want me to do tablet-wireless? | 11:47 |
| Stskeeps | s | 11:47 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: if you're bored | 11:47 |
| qwerty12 | Shouldn't take me long, I've been getting practice in :/ | 11:48 |
| rzr | Stskeeps: ok , i was on this page too | 11:48 |
| rzr | Stskeeps: what about the opposite , FSO on tablets ? | 11:49 |
| Stskeeps | rzr: openembedded.. and mamona was based on that and it seems to have taken quite a long time for them | 11:50 |
| timeless | sts: thoughts on my ramblings? | 11:50 |
| timeless | jaem: there's a new 1.1.2pre langpack | 11:50 |
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| Stskeeps | timeless: the one at 3am last night? :P | 11:50 |
| timeless | dunno if it works, it needs testing | 11:50 |
| timeless | yeah that one | 11:50 |
| Stskeeps | replied in msg when i woke up :P no particular views, was based on something i noticed when i copied over the internal MMC of a n810 and thought was curious, but i am in no way an ogg evangelist (.. except when i was 16) and yeah, your arguments make sense | 11:51 |
| jaem | timeless: yes...? | 11:52 |
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| timeless | sts: k, i only really read my scrollback if i know i need to (i just checked and found your reply) | 11:56 |
| timeless | fwiw, i was personally annoyed when i found it | 11:56 |
| timeless | as i expected it would undermine the nokia view | 11:56 |
| timeless | it's not wrong, but it's definitely harder | 11:56 |
| timeless | it confuses the issue | 11:56 |
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| timeless | as it happens, i'm neither a fan of the format nor a fan of the lawyers opinion of the format | 11:57 |
| timeless | s/lawyers/lawyers'/ | 11:57 |
| infobot_ | timeless meant: as it happens, i'm neither a fan of the format nor a fan of the lawyers' opinion of the format | 11:57 |
| Stskeeps | right, so, is there a known issue that scanning while being associated messes up 770 wifi connections? | 11:57 |
| timeless | heh | 11:58 |
| * timeless shrugs | 11:58 | |
| Stskeeps | (not specifically asking you :P) | 11:58 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: does wifi-radar and such use wpa_supplicant? | 11:58 |
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| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, wifi-radar is horrible, I avoided it. But I'm pretty sure wicd does. | 11:59 |
| Stskeeps | mm | 12:00 |
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| qwerty12 | With wifi-radar, I couldn't even connect to a network because I wasn't able to enter my details because it ran so slow. wicd worked well, and it has a decent interface. Only thing was that it would insist on reconnecting until I told it not to reconnect | 12:02 |
| qwerty12 | s/reconnecting/reconnecting when I was connected/ | 12:02 |
| infobot_ | qwerty12 meant: With wifi-radar, I couldn't even connect to a network because I wasn't able to enter my details because it ran so slow. wicd worked well, and it has a decent interface. Only thing was that it would insist on reconnecting when I was connected until I told ... | 12:02 |
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| Stskeeps | mm, but is wicd girlfriend friendly | 12:04 |
| qwerty12 | Once the network details were inputted, it'd automatically connect with no input every time I rebooted. Only thing is that it doesn't seem to have an applet, you have to run its manager program manually to see the status. | 12:06 |
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| eichi | hello, is there no way to sync a maemo calendar app with a linux calendar app? if not, what could be the easyiest apps to code a sync app? maybe i will take a try...some ideas? | 12:15 |
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| neatojones | I tried out gpe-mininet yesterday. It worked fine, but didn't support WPA keys | 12:18 |
| neatojones | it basically was the gpe version of nm-applet | 12:18 |
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| * timeless grumbles | 12:20 | |
| timeless | how is a guy supposed to find a picture of peanut butter? | 12:20 |
| neatojones | take one | 12:21 |
| timeless | http://www.thegreenhead.com/imgs/peanut-butter-jelly-spreader-2.jpg | 12:21 |
| timeless | :) | 12:21 |
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| jaem | that's one of those "it's obvious, it should have been invented years ago, and it will only ever be sold to fools on infomercials" products ;) | 12:22 |
| jaem | but still, kind of neat | 12:22 |
| jaem | not quite up there with the titanium spork, though (although apparently those wreck some types of dishes) | 12:23 |
| timeless | heh | 12:23 |
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| SaBer | hummm.. Any tips on debugging applicatin startup? I made .service and .desktop files for my app, but now it wont start. I've checked them many times, but can't find out what's wrong... | 12:25 |
| neatojones | i restarted nm-applet and despite many restarts, it never has showed back up on the system tray | 12:26 |
| neatojones | makes me wanna break something | 12:26 |
| qwerty12 | You sure that the Name & X-Osso-Service fields match? And that the Exec field in your service is correct? | 12:26 |
| Stskeeps | jesus, there's a lot of OS2007HE bugs | 12:26 |
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| qwerty12 | Name as in the Name field in your service file | 12:26 |
| SaBer | qwerty12: yes, I've checked them many times :( | 12:27 |
| qwerty12 | odd :/ | 12:27 |
| qwerty12 | Usually what happens is that your program will start but then get killed after 60s as you forget to osso_initialize it :P | 12:27 |
| timeless | saber: do you have a dbus service? | 12:28 |
| timeless | if you run your app from the shell | 12:28 |
| timeless | (xterm/ssh), does it survive? and can you speak to it via dbus? | 12:28 |
| SaBer | timeless: running it from the shell works fine | 12:29 |
| SaBer | timeless: I'm only using this dbus stuff to get launch feedback :P | 12:30 |
| jeremiah | Mmm peanutbutter | 12:30 |
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| qgil | jeremiah: about http://blog.jeremiahfoster.com/?p=35 I think it's a bit confusing | 12:32 |
| jaem | lol: http://technology.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/tech_and_web/article5727189.ece | 12:32 |
| jaem | rather sensationalist | 12:32 |
| jaem | 4th paragraph | 12:32 |
| qgil | There is a security team in Maemo working on the security of the OS itself | 12:32 |
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| qgil | community feedback welcome but I guess they are covering more or less the field | 12:33 |
| qgil | what still needs to be discussed at a community level though | 12:33 |
| jeremiah | qgil: Where is there info on the security team? | 12:33 |
| qgil | is how to make sure that developers are aware of security issues | 12:33 |
| timeless | jeremiah: so, you have two bugs.maemo.org accounts | 12:33 |
| qwerty12 | SaBer, hmm, try adding "X-Osso-Type=application/x-executable" to your desktop file | 12:34 |
| timeless | which makes my life painful | 12:34 |
| timeless | do you need both? :) | 12:34 |
| jeremiah | timeless: Not that I know of | 12:34 |
| jeremiah | And no, I only need one. :) | 12:34 |
| qgil | and how to have a process making sure that apps promoted to extras are found to be secure | 12:34 |
| X-Fade | I would really like to see that the maemo.org repositories are at least at a higher level of security than some random repo. | 12:34 |
| X-Fade | For this we would need to actively maintain and follow up on issues. | 12:35 |
| jeremiah | qgil: So what is the Maemo security and is it separate from internal Nokia? | 12:35 |
| timeless | andre__: see, please collapse his other one :) | 12:35 |
| qgil | let me find links | 12:35 |
| qgil | http://maemo.org/community/security/ | 12:35 |
| X-Fade | jeremiah: Everything Maemo (capital M) is Maemo software inside Nokia. | 12:35 |
| timeless | community/security? | 12:35 |
| timeless | strange link | 12:35 |
| jeremiah | qgil: thanks, reading . . . | 12:35 |
| jeremiah | qgil: Yeah, I saw that. | 12:36 |
| X-Fade | jeremiah: That are the guys I introduced you to. | 12:36 |
| jeremiah | But it does not really address things like policy. | 12:36 |
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| jaem | goodnight, #maemo | 12:36 |
| jeremiah | What happens if an app in extras provides priviledge escalation? | 12:36 |
| qgil | http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node16.html | 12:36 |
| jeremiah | Can you ban it? | 12:37 |
| *** jaem is now known as jaem_afk | 12:37 | |
| X-Fade | jeremiah: You can remove it. | 12:37 |
| X-Fade | jeremiah: But there is no policy for that. | 12:37 |
| timeless | x-fade: removing it means that all current victims remain? | 12:37 |
| Stskeeps | maybe a flagging system could be interesting too, kinda like portaudit on freebsd.. | 12:37 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Sure, we don't have any evil kill switches ;) | 12:37 |
| X-Fade | timeless: The only thing we can do is offer an update. | 12:38 |
| timeless | that'd be better | 12:38 |
| jeremiah | But isn't this something that Antti pointed to? That there is a lack of clarity? | 12:38 |
| jeremiah | Around security policy? | 12:38 |
| Stskeeps | HAM could pop up a message saying "you might have insecure applications" :P | 12:38 |
| timeless | avs afaiu is the internal contact | 12:38 |
| timeless | sts: grr | 12:38 |
| jeremiah | And kill switches seem truly evil in a community like this | 12:38 |
| timeless | ham already has enough messages | 12:38 |
| timeless | one more will kill me | 12:38 |
| jaem_afk | it would be nice to have a more elegant method than messages | 12:39 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, please don't suggest that, even in a joking manner. :P | 12:39 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: well it checks updates anyway.. why not also pop up Clippy and say "I see you have the following applications installed, which has been marked as maemo.org as insecure.." | 12:40 |
| Stskeeps | (pardon my bad grammar) | 12:40 |
| jaem_afk | sts: no, pop clippy up and have him say "I see that you have an insecure application. would you like me to enable root ssh login?" - that's more his style | 12:40 |
| qgil | jeremiah: so any progress on security for community apps should be build on top of those 2 URLs | 12:41 |
| qwerty12 | Heh, I guess I'm just a person who finds Nokia's disclaimer annoying in HAM and takes steps to remove it ;) | 12:41 |
| Stskeeps | "Would you like to A) remove them B) keep them or C) let them battle in an arena" | 12:41 |
| jeremiah | qgil: Right. That make sense. | 12:41 |
| jaem_afk | sts: C), like http://xkcd.com/350/ ? | 12:41 |
| jaem_afk | wait... nvm | 12:41 |
| Stskeeps | jaem_afk: yes, i have occasionally considered that | 12:41 |
| jeremiah | qgil: I just worry about software in the repos that might be rootkits and what to do about it. | 12:42 |
| jaem_afk | I have too... but the LCD would be too expensive | 12:42 |
| qgil | and any proposals about improving the security of Maemo (the OS) should be dealt through enhancement requests in bugs.maemo.org for instance | 12:42 |
| timeless | jaem: nice | 12:42 |
| qgil | jeremiah: if you worry about unsecure software in the repos, imagine Nokia :) | 12:42 |
| jeremiah | qgil: Precisely. | 12:42 |
| Stskeeps | jeremiah: 'rootsh' is about as much of a rootkit as you can get :P | 12:42 |
| timeless | or .desktop files | 12:42 |
| * timeless grumbles | 12:42 | |
| qgil | the way to deal with this is to concentrate on extras and the filters to get there | 12:43 |
| timeless | who needs packages when you can just send people .desktop files | 12:43 |
| qwerty12 | timeless, but you need to be root to add them :> | 12:43 |
| jeremiah | qgil: That seems like the right approach, but I would want to be open and explicit about why a package does, or does not get in. | 12:43 |
| timeless | qwerty: we don't run .desktop files? | 12:44 |
| jeremiah | If it fails some sort of filter, that cannot seem to be arbitrary | 12:44 |
| qgil | X-Fade: actually this discussion is very timely since the alpha SDK is around the corner (well, in few weeks) and it will contain everything for developers to start populating a fremantle repo | 12:44 |
| qgil | jeremiah: sure, a community process needs to be documented and be open for anybody to watch and judge | 12:44 |
| qwerty12 | timeless, well, sh -c example.desktop doesn't really work. They're parsed by hildon-desktop | 12:44 |
| SaBer | qwerty12: it seems the "deprecated" third parameter to osso_initialize has to be set to false :( But now it finally works \o/ | 12:44 |
| jaem_afk | jeremiah: I would agree, as not doing so goes with "kill-switch" in the 'too-Apple-ish" category | 12:45 |
| qwerty12 | SaBer, heh, w00t! | 12:45 |
| jeremiah | jaem_afk: Exactly. | 12:45 |
| *** jaem_afk is now known as jaem_notafk | 12:45 | |
| qgil | so to make sure we get the same picture: | 12:45 |
| qgil | Nokia would not go to extras and remove an app | 12:46 |
| timeless | http://xkcd.com/368/ | 12:46 |
| qgil | Nokia would expect that the community process has prevented unsecure apps from appearing there | 12:46 |
| qgil | and if there has been a mistake, there is also a community process to remove an app from there | 12:46 |
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| jaem_notafk | ...would it be possible to notify the user only when they try to run the offending app? Thus preventing random notifications, but still getting the job done? | 12:47 |
| jeremiah | So I ought to be discussing a repo filtering process rather than a security process? | 12:47 |
| qgil | then Nokia can help by discussing the security criteria, funding whatever tools need to be implemented and put some resources that would help on watching new apps willing to get promoted to extras | 12:47 |
| timeless | jaem: too kill switchy | 12:48 |
| qgil | jeremiah: well, I don't see the thin line | 12:48 |
| timeless | or too spy'y | 12:48 |
| timeless | someone would complain we're snooping | 12:48 |
| timeless | "i know you run <> x times a day" | 12:48 |
| jaem_notafk | timeless: I was thinking that the update manager could "retrieve" any notices, but just delay them to be triggered when the app is actually used | 12:48 |
| jaem_notafk | and still let you override it if you really want to | 12:48 |
| jeremiah | jaem_notafk: Seems complicated. | 12:49 |
| qgil | it's also a quality consideration: if you app is buggy (or malicious) you go out of the main repo and full stop - you can probably still be in extras-devel or whatever in quaranteene | 12:49 |
| timeless | too much effort | 12:49 |
| jaem_notafk | jeremiah: yes, it does | 12:49 |
| timeless | might as well tell you about the updates when it knows about them | 12:49 |
| jaem_notafk | timeless: probably - just a suggestion | 12:49 |
| jaem_notafk | well, that's a thought too | 12:49 |
| X-Fade | I think we can feed security notification back in the Application Manager? | 12:50 |
| timeless | http://xkcd.com/469/ | 12:50 |
| jeremiah | Okay. This begins to mirror debian's repository policys, where they provide a new package when a package that has been submitted has an exploit | 12:50 |
| X-Fade | So a user can be warned about a problematic program. | 12:50 |
| jaem_notafk | but does it replace the package? or just add a notice? | 12:50 |
| X-Fade | Well, if we have an update AM will already show the SSU icon.. | 12:50 |
| jaem_notafk | alternatively, you could just pull some sort of separate feed of security notices from the maemo website, and filter it according to what's installed | 12:51 |
| jeremiah | debian _replaces_ the package with a NMU (non-maintainter upload) | 12:51 |
| timeless | is that package a dummy, or empty, or what? | 12:51 |
| jeremiah | jaem_notafk: That is also a good policy, but put the burden on the user. | 12:51 |
| qgil | security is one aspect of the filtering process | 12:51 |
| timeless | fwiw, browser studies show that burdening the user doesn't work | 12:51 |
| timeless | if it isn't automatic, it's as good as useless/unused | 12:52 |
| jeremiah | timeless: The package is a regular full package, with a patch, but security team has created it. | 12:52 |
| jaem_notafk | jeremiah: I'm not sure how it "burdens" them... ? | 12:52 |
| qgil | what we need at the end is a filtering process considering also that the app is feature complete, installs, is stable, doesn't kill the system resources, power management... | 12:52 |
| timeless | jeremiah: so they *fix* the package? | 12:53 |
| timeless | what if they can't find a fix? | 12:53 |
| jeremiah | jaem_notafk: Well, if you got an app that wiped out your hard drive, you would blame Maemo not yourself. | 12:53 |
| timeless | how long do they wait w/ the package deployed and unfixed? | 12:53 |
| jeremiah | jaem_notafk: So if Maemo were to say "hey, that is your fault not ours" | 12:53 |
| jaem_notafk | jeremiah: if we're considering some sort of notification, aren't we presuming the device still mostly works? | 12:53 |
| jeremiah | jaem_notafk: You would feel that that is an undue burden | 12:54 |
| jeremiah | timeless: They usually do, but they wait to announce until they have a fix and a new package. | 12:54 |
| jeremiah | timeless: So yeah, they fix the package and send the fix upstream | 12:54 |
| qgil | "So if Maemo were to say "hey, that is your fault not ours"" - this comes from the disclaimers that users dislike so much :) | 12:55 |
| jaem_notafk | jeremiah: I think you misunderstand me | 12:55 |
| jeremiah | Exactly. It is unfair to users to pass on trojans, rootkits, etc. | 12:55 |
| qgil | still, no matter the disclaimers, if the issue is affecting thousands of users only the calls to customer care and visits to the shop are an expensive hassle | 12:55 |
| jeremiah | A platform's reputation is its quality control. | 12:56 |
| qgil | or if someone blogs about something and Engadget picks that up and the Nokia logo is involved... these kind of things | 12:56 |
| jaem_notafk | jeremiah: I would hope the current process would preclude trojans getting in the repo, in any case - but I take your point | 12:57 |
| qgil | jaem_notafk: the fact is that "the current process" does not prevent that | 12:57 |
| jaem_notafk | oh | 12:57 |
| qgil | and this is what needs to be improved in Fremantle | 12:57 |
| jaem_notafk | that would be an issue | 12:57 |
| jeremiah | jaem_notafk: I would hope so too, and I imagine it has. But the cost of it happening is too great not to address. | 12:57 |
| * timeless wonders what the current process is | 12:57 | |
| * jeremiah wonders as well | 12:58 | |
| jaem_notafk | what is the current policy for getting a pkg into extras? | 12:58 |
| Stskeeps | jaem_notafk: willing to bet it is fairly easy to upload let's say.. Internet Explorer package which is a trojan ssh tunneling your X11VNC server somewhere :P | 12:58 |
| qgil | http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras | 12:58 |
| * jeremiah would like some more concrete policy so that users know explicitly | 12:58 | |
| * jaem_notafk reads policy | 12:59 | |
| Stskeeps | isn't maemo extras special by the fact it is developers and not maintainers uploading? | 12:59 |
| qgil | and more exactly http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras#Promotion | 12:59 |
| Stskeeps | whereas debian maintainers need to show their worth | 12:59 |
| qgil | Please make sure your package is ready for the masses and at least test: if it installs without problems if it uninstalls without problems if it doesn't introduce dependency problems for other packages. | 12:59 |
| jeremiah | Stskeeps: Yes, mostly true. But the barrier to entry is still quite low in debian. | 12:59 |
| jeremiah | If you are not a DD you cannot upload to debian. | 13:00 |
| jaem_notafk | qgil: I see your concern now :S | 13:00 |
| Stskeeps | jeremiah: still, it isn't quite walk-in-from-the-street-and-upload :) | 13:00 |
| jeremiah | But nearly anyone can go through mentors and have someone sponsor their upload. | 13:00 |
| Stskeeps | jeremiah: yeah, and the hope is there is some degree of package review then | 13:00 |
| jeremiah | Stskeeps: No, you are right. :) | 13:00 |
| timeless | hrm | 13:00 |
| timeless | so... | 13:00 |
| timeless | jeremiah? | 13:00 |
| jeremiah | Yes? | 13:00 |
| timeless | i can't get my package out of extras-devel | 13:00 |
| timeless | it fails promotion :) | 13:00 |
| timeless | Please make sure your package is ready for the masses and at least test: | 13:01 |
| timeless | if it uninstalls without problems | 13:01 |
| jeremiah | Good point. | 13:01 |
| jeremiah | I can remove the package from extras-devel by hand if you like, | 13:01 |
| timeless | so, um... "help" :) | 13:01 |
| Stskeeps | then again, the open attitude to extras does mean development and uptake of platform may be faster.. | 13:01 |
| jeremiah | what is it called? | 13:01 |
| timeless | nah, extras-devel is fine | 13:01 |
| timeless | it's only a requirement for going into extras | 13:02 |
| Stskeeps | (at the cost of some sanity) | 13:02 |
| jeremiah | Oh I see! | 13:02 |
| *** lardman|gone is now known as lardman | 13:02 | |
| X-Fade | Promotion should have the QA step. | 13:02 |
| timeless | x-fade: so... | 13:02 |
| timeless | i talked to mvo | 13:02 |
| *** housetier has joined #maemo | 13:02 | |
| jeremiah | X-Fade: Yeah, I agree, that is where the qa should happen. | 13:02 |
| X-Fade | Question is, what QA and what policy and who will do that.. | 13:02 |
| jeremiah | Precisely. | 13:03 |
| timeless | (is that his nick?) | 13:03 |
| Stskeeps | members of community | 13:03 |
| timeless | and basically he acknowledges that this stuff isn't going to work well | 13:03 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: m-vo usually, i think | 13:03 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: A team of repo maintainers, yes. | 13:03 |
| timeless | he suggested i could hack gettext (which he thinks is part of glibc) | 13:03 |
| timeless | i told him i wasn't interested in forking glibc | 13:03 |
| zs1 | anyone has gentoo? i need to make usb networking :) | 13:03 |
| qgil | X-Fade: well, there is a reason why we got a full time debmaster... | 13:03 |
| jeremiah | :) | 13:04 |
| X-Fade | qgil: Exactly ;) I've discussed this very issue with Jeremiah yesterday btw ;) | 13:04 |
| timeless | jeremiah: so... | 13:04 |
| timeless | m-vo didn't think dpkg-divert sounded particularly good | 13:04 |
| X-Fade | Ideally developer would request promotion. QA will do the promotion after OK. | 13:05 |
| qgil | a related discussion that needs a resolution to be made between alpha and beta release is | 13:05 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: gettext is in gettext-base in ubuntu, at least | 13:05 |
| timeless | i think i'm leaning toward a thing which does a backup at preinst and a restore at postinst | 13:05 |
| *** booiiing has joined #maemo | 13:05 | |
| qgil | whether we keep the extras-devel ---> extras bi-repo situation we have now | 13:05 |
| timeless | stskeeps: the actual gettext() function itself? | 13:05 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: oh, gettext function itself - i thought you meant /usr/bin/gettext | 13:05 |
| qwerty12 | timeless, I'd hope it was restored at postrm :) | 13:05 |
| qgil | or we go for the 3 levels experimental/unstable --> testing --> stable | 13:05 |
| timeless | ... | 13:06 |
| qgil | extras-devel / extras-test / extras | 13:06 |
| X-Fade | I think we all agree that Extras needs to be enabled on the device by default. And that an end-user should expect stable, maintained apps there.. | 13:06 |
| jeremiah | qgil: The three layered approach provides more places for qa and automated testing. | 13:06 |
| timeless | jeremiah: and more chances that it doesn't get used | 13:06 |
| qgil | jeremiah: I know and I'm for it | 13:06 |
| * Stskeeps personally believes in personal package archives -> extras-test -> extras instead | 13:06 | |
| timeless | c.f. sardine (dead) | 13:06 |
| X-Fade | Please not that in debian unstable -> testing is a time delay based thing. | 13:06 |
| qgil | we have started that discussion many times, but never got to a conclusion, be it 2 or 3 levels | 13:06 |
| X-Fade | Not active QA. | 13:07 |
| Stskeeps | where PPAs are garage based | 13:07 |
| timeless | PPA? | 13:07 |
| jeremiah | timeless: You're right - the additional layers of indirection mean fewer apps get used by the end user. | 13:07 |
| Stskeeps | personal package archives, like launchpad's | 13:07 |
| jaem_notafk | either way, where QA is done is important - I can go post a *.install on ITT that adds extra-devel, so that people can try out my New Great App (TM), and then we run into the same problem | 13:07 |
| Stskeeps | want to alpha test a product? add the PPA | 13:07 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:07 |
| timeless | sorry, pretend i don't know what launchpad is | 13:07 |
| jaem_notafk | sts: I'm a fan of PPAs | 13:07 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: basically a per-developer repository, but centrally based | 13:08 |
| *** ijon_ has quit IRC | 13:08 | |
| timeless | sts: i think gan/jaffa/x-fade campaigned against ppa | 13:08 |
| suihkulokki | replace garage with launchpad.net :) | 13:08 |
| qgil | my non-techical point of view here is: | 13:08 |
| jaem_notafk | sts: they also shift the responsibility/blame more onto the shoulders of the individual devs | 13:08 |
| jeremiah | But PPAs just create more problems | 13:08 |
| timeless | that's basically what we had before w/ extras | 13:08 |
| X-Fade | jaem_notafk: I think that is were Application Manager can help. It can add these awful warnings for 'not trusted' repos. | 13:08 |
| jeremiah | You have repos everywhere | 13:08 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: not entirely, PPAs are backed by autobuilder and hosted @ centralized spot | 13:08 |
| qgil | - extras for the masses, in Maemo 5 is active by default and will be kept there unless there are too many problems found by real users | 13:08 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: and focused upon one product at at time or a developer | 13:09 |
| timeless | so, who does promotion today, and why? | 13:09 |
| wazd | http://s47.radikal.ru/i116/0902/1b/31002b96683d.jpg | 13:09 |
| timeless | is it really the developer? | 13:09 |
| wazd | I'm totally sick | 13:09 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Anybody.. | 13:09 |
| wazd | hello qgil) | 13:09 |
| timeless | personally, i'd rather *not* be the one who promotes my package | 13:09 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: hah :> | 13:09 |
| qgil | - extras-test or extras-beta or something along these lines for software that is found good enough by the own developers but needs still peer review, QA and what not | 13:09 |
| jaem_notafk | x-fade: if we still have all the other awful warnings, Joe User will probably just click through that one without reading | 13:09 |
| timeless | i'm fine w/ "nominating" a package | 13:09 |
| jaem_notafk | still, though, it might work | 13:09 |
| timeless | and then having a referendum | 13:09 |
| timeless | where people can comment saying "i tested, and feel it's ready" | 13:10 |
| X-Fade | jaem_notafk: That would imply that trusted repos won't have it of course. | 13:10 |
| timeless | after a certain point, someone reviews and decides if it's ready | 13:10 |
| jaem_notafk | x-fade: just checking | 13:10 |
| qgil | and extras-devel -unstable -experimental or PPA or whatever you want for anything definitely not intended for end users, not even for power users willing to test fresh stuff | 13:10 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: you should make a talk about stealing with arms and legs.. | 13:10 |
| suihkulokki | IMNHSO the application manager could have 1-5 stars selector, which would enable repos extas-one-star -> extras-five-star according to how many stars users selected | 13:10 |
| timeless | jeremiah/qgil: btw, you should look at how addons.mozilla.org works w/ their extension sandbox | 13:10 |
| suihkulokki | then have some accepted QA criteria to select which "star category" a package belongs to | 13:10 |
| wazd | I should send it to engadget) | 13:10 |
| jeremiah | So it appears we have consesnsus around a three repo plan? | 13:10 |
| X-Fade | jeremiah: I'm not a fan. | 13:11 |
| jeremiah | Following qgil's format? | 13:11 |
| jeremiah | X-Fade: Aha. | 13:11 |
| jaem_notafk | jeremiah: if PPAs are out, that would be my next vote | 13:11 |
| timeless | suihkulokki: the ui wizards have wanted stars for ham forever | 13:11 |
| * timeless has no idea if it'll ever happen | 13:11 | |
| X-Fade | jeremiah: Well, adding yet another repo doesn't fix things by itself. | 13:11 |
| X-Fade | In debian testing is about as likely to break as unstable. | 13:12 |
| jeremiah | X-Fade: Think of it not as a repo, but as a place where you can hammer the potential package with scripts testing quality. | 13:12 |
| suihkulokki | something in the line of 1 star being "I managed to compile it, it works sometimes, UI is not tablet-optimized" and 5 stars being "doesn't crash and has well optimized UI for tablet" | 13:12 |
| X-Fade | If nobody cared to test a package it automatically moved from unstable to testing without problems. | 13:12 |
| jaem_notafk | but I think we need to make it clear that there is a "good" repo, a "try it at your own risk" repo, and a 'will eat your children" repo, and not just good/sort-of-good/almost-as-good | 13:12 |
| jeremiah | jaem_notafk: Yeah, I agree. | 13:12 |
| suihkulokki | nod | 13:13 |
| jaem_notafk | if people are advertising their New Great Program (TM) as soon as it compiles, people are going to install it no matter the warnings | 13:13 |
| X-Fade | It would be nice to have defined what one can expect from a repo. | 13:13 |
| jeremiah | I think it is crucial that we state publically what the repos contain | 13:13 |
| qgil | I'm putting together the pieces for a "Maemo betatester" plan and it would be good to have something between extras and extras-totally-unfiltered-devel | 13:13 |
| X-Fade | But would a developer like it if it takes a few days from upload to appearance in Extras? | 13:14 |
| timeless | x-fade: who cares? | 13:14 |
| jeremiah | It takes ten days for _anything_ to get into debian. | 13:14 |
| jeremiah | I think a short wait is reasonable. | 13:14 |
| jaem_notafk | well, there's nothing stopping a dev from posting a deb on their own website/Garage in the mean time | 13:14 |
| jaem_notafk | people do that anyways | 13:14 |
| timeless | x-fade: it's taken me weeks to go nowhere w/ my package | 13:14 |
| X-Fade | jeremiah: Yes and people complain about that ;) | 13:14 |
| timeless | if a dev is in a hurry, they can cheat and use their own repo | 13:14 |
| timeless | that said | 13:14 |
| timeless | i don't think a time based system is the right answer | 13:14 |
| timeless | the right answer is a list of people who can collectively approve something | 13:15 |
| X-Fade | Well, what if a fix to a bugged package takes a developer the same time? | 13:15 |
| X-Fade | Is that a going to be a problem? | 13:15 |
| jeremiah | X-Fade: But people love the stability of debian too, so I think the balance is there. | 13:15 |
| timeless | so if i can find 5/10 of them on irc w/in a smaller window i can get it approved | 13:15 |
| qgil | that said many users do a mistake once and even twice installing something that looked cool from somewhere | 13:15 |
| timeless | jeremiah: which is why people use ubuntu | 13:15 |
| timeless | please don't suggest stability as the reason | 13:15 |
| qgil | but many of them do learn and stick to repos once they see how beautiful is not to have to reflash and etc | 13:15 |
| timeless | debian stable is known for glacial pace | 13:15 |
| jeremiah | timeless: Which is why people use it. | 13:16 |
| timeless | maemo is used in Nokia devices targetted at people who are on the edge | 13:16 |
| jaem_notafk | qgil: which is why we need to get the message across to the devs, too | 13:16 |
| timeless | early adopters | 13:16 |
| * Jaffa thinks he had an earlier blog post on QA | 13:16 | |
| X-Fade | jeremiah: But this is what gave ubunut it's boost. | 13:16 |
| wazd | Can I give my 2 kopeykas?) | 13:16 |
| timeless | early adopters are not the people who wait 5 years before they adopt a product | 13:16 |
| jeremiah | X-Fade: And subsequent fall. | 13:16 |
| qgil | jaem_notafk: sure, and a way to send the message to the developers is: | 13:16 |
| X-Fade | So we need to find some kind of middle ground for that. | 13:16 |
| qgil | blog about your app and put your deb in your homepage if you wish | 13:16 |
| jeremiah | Lots of upstream projects return to debian because of its stability, mepis, etc. | 13:16 |
| Jaffa | http://www.maemopeople.org/index.php/jaffa/2008/01/13/solving_the_lack_of_qa_and_muliple_repos | 13:17 |
| qgil | but by no means you are going to be promoted in *.maemo.org and even less in maemo.nokia.com | 13:17 |
| timeless | jaffa: spell check your titles? | 13:17 |
| qgil | and that's where the stuff really happens | 13:17 |
| inz | timeless, damn, you beat me | 13:17 |
| timeless | inz: glad to have a race :) | 13:17 |
| jaem_notafk | qgil: sounds good | 13:18 |
| X-Fade | qgil: I also think we need to fix this in AM. That is still where most people get their apps. | 13:18 |
| jeremiah | AM? | 13:18 |
| timeless | ham | 13:18 |
| timeless | h-a-m | 13:18 |
| X-Fade | qgil: And if a user clicks one .install from gronmayer, he has it all. | 13:18 |
| inz | IRC is teh best spellchecker eva; just post a link and people will complain ;) | 13:18 |
| timeless | ... | 13:18 |
| Stskeeps | jeremiah: hildon application manager | 13:18 |
| jeremiah | Stskeeps: Thanks :) | 13:18 |
| X-Fade | qgil: No differentiation between official repos and just a random one. | 13:18 |
| timeless | x-fade: we should offer to disable repos after the install process finishes | 13:19 |
| qgil | X-Fade: Yes, this is what Ville and Elena are looking at | 13:19 |
| jaem_notafk | timeless: that's a start | 13:19 |
| timeless | however, that doesn't really do the right thing | 13:19 |
| timeless | because i really do want updates for my app | 13:19 |
| X-Fade | timeless: I think we really need colored backgrounds in the app list, indicating the source. | 13:19 |
| jaem_notafk | is there a mechanism in apt repos for differentiation/ | 13:19 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Or something like that. | 13:19 |
| timeless | x-fade; something like that could be interesting | 13:19 |
| X-Fade | Or put everything trusted on top. | 13:20 |
| timeless | colors is of course wrong | 13:20 |
| timeless | no. | 13:20 |
| timeless | no no :) | 13:20 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Or icons or whatever. | 13:20 |
| timeless | sorry, having dealt w/ long lists | 13:20 |
| timeless | icons have issues too, who picks them? | 13:20 |
| qgil | but if the extras process is good enough, good developers will not go elsewhere and the average end user will not feel the need to go elsewhere either | 13:20 |
| X-Fade | Stability switch on the bar.. | 13:20 |
| timeless | what if two repos pick 'similar' icons | 13:20 |
| jaem_notafk | "ooh... I like the yellow-and-black striped apps... let's install them!" | 13:20 |
| qgil | it's been some years now since I last installed a non-official repo in my Linux desktop | 13:20 |
| jaem_notafk | "what's that it says? 'caution'" | 13:20 |
| qgil | because basically what I need is in the official repos already | 13:20 |
| jeremiah | qgil: I think this will probably be the case actually. Lots of good quality apps in Maemo | 13:21 |
| timeless | qgil: how much software do you install on your desktop? | 13:21 |
| timeless | personally i don't install much at all | 13:21 |
| *** dneary has quit IRC | 13:21 | |
| jeremiah | I install tons of stuff and I run debian unstable. Even that is rock solid | 13:21 |
| qgil | timeless: also true, I got the apps I need and I don't care much about whetever else | 13:21 |
| timeless | qgil: there's nothing wrong w/ that | 13:21 |
| jaem_notafk | x-fade, timeless: the problem still remains... if we let the user click it, they will; if we don't, we're evil... | 13:21 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Well Nokia isn't going to ship a firmware with a bunch of community apps (yet) | 13:22 |
| jaem_notafk | some compromise is needed | 13:22 |
| timeless | it's jsut that essentially you're no longer a bleeding early adopter | 13:22 |
| timeless | nor am i | 13:22 |
| *** jaem_notafk is now known as jaem | 13:22 | |
| qgil | timeless: but actually something similar might happen with the average maemo 5 user | 13:22 |
| X-Fade | timeless: So we need some easy way to install some apps :) | 13:22 |
| qgil | you start trying out a bunch of things | 13:22 |
| timeless | qgil: ideally yeah | 13:22 |
| timeless | personally, for my boxes, i'll install a base | 13:22 |
| timeless | ZFS-snapshot | 13:22 |
| qgil | after some months you keep what matters and from time to time you give a try to something else | 13:22 |
| timeless | then install a bunch of experiments | 13:22 |
| timeless | note which ones i like | 13:22 |
| qgil | basically after recommendations and etc | 13:22 |
| timeless | ZFS-rollback | 13:22 |
| timeless | and then install the useful ones again | 13:23 |
| X-Fade | timeless: That doesn't sound like avarage joe behavior to me :D | 13:23 |
| jeremiah | timeless: You're not running linux with ZFS? | 13:23 |
| jeremiah | It isn't in the kernel | 13:23 |
| timeless | in maemo4, that's basically buy device, setup stuff, backup, install junk, reflash, restore, install relevant stuff | 13:23 |
| timeless | jeremiah: i run osol/snv | 13:23 |
| timeless | (and nexenta and a centos lx branded zone) | 13:23 |
| jaem | timeless: :S | 13:24 |
| qgil | ok guys, I should be doping something else | 13:24 |
| qgil | hopefully the feedback was useful jeremiah :) | 13:24 |
| timeless | qgil: don't dope! | 13:24 |
| jeremiah | Very | 13:24 |
| X-Fade | In short I think we need: QA process in promotion fase, AM modification to show trust level of software. | 13:24 |
| qgil | doping? doing! | 13:24 |
| jeremiah | Doing dope? | 13:24 |
| jaem | doing LCD? | 13:24 |
| timeless | qgil: paying too much attn to american baseball? | 13:24 |
| jaem | sniffing wifi? | 13:24 |
| X-Fade | Extra level of repo? Maybe, if well defined and proven to be beneficial? | 13:25 |
| qgil | timelin my next life perhaps | 13:25 |
| timeless | heh | 13:25 |
| qgil | X-Fade: the pragmatic approach is to start with extras-devel only in fremantle | 13:25 |
| qgil | and don't let anybody jumpt to a more stable evel until there is a process in place | 13:25 |
| jeremiah | X-Fade: Maybe one should think of it as a testing zone that people can upload to | 13:25 |
| X-Fade | qgil: For alpha and beta sure.. | 13:25 |
| qgil | alpha is a good time to setup the devel repo and start the discussion (really) | 13:26 |
| timeless | how hard would it be to pick 12-24 people who can help a package from extras-devel to extras | 13:26 |
| X-Fade | qgil: We have some time to test things out there and no real users to worry about... yet. | 13:26 |
| qgil | beta is a good time to start getting into conclusions :) | 13:26 |
| timeless | and then require 3 or maybe 5 votes before a package jumps | 13:26 |
| timeless | btw, do we expect someone to get a new approval for each package update | 13:26 |
| timeless | or just the first version that's included in extras? | 13:27 |
| X-Fade | timeless: That only works if people actively help testing.. | 13:27 |
| timeless | x-fade: well, people have helped me | 13:27 |
| X-Fade | And our tester base is large enough.. | 13:27 |
| timeless | if the package isn't important, then it can wait longer | 13:27 |
| jaem | x-fade: and not everyone can feasibly test everything, which would put constraints on tester numbers, and necessary votes | 13:27 |
| timeless | if people want something badly enough, they can volunteer to be testers | 13:27 |
| X-Fade | timeless: And thus frustrates the developer, which causes him to setup his own repo. | 13:27 |
| X-Fade | I've seen that happen ;) | 13:28 |
| timeless | but they can't test the thing they want first | 13:28 |
| timeless | they'd have to test 3 other things from the queue | 13:28 |
| qgil | for updates a simple diff seen by 2 people can tell more than 30' test by 1000 people | 13:28 |
| jaem | and not everyone that would volunteer would be competent | 13:28 |
| * timeless nods | 13:28 | |
| * timeless is hungry | 13:28 | |
| timeless | someone have a spare apple? | 13:28 |
| * jaem hands timeless some pizza | 13:28 | |
| jeremiah | Me too, starving | 13:28 |
| jaem | timeless: I have two, but they looked dead enough when I bought them | 13:28 |
| jaem | I shudder to think what they look like now | 13:29 |
| * jaem curses uni food | 13:29 | |
| jeremiah | I am going to get some lunch, I hope to write something down to make this discussion concrete. | 13:29 |
| X-Fade | It is a fine line to walk between easy uploading and making things too hard. | 13:29 |
| jeremiah | (Not about my lunch but about the repos. :) ) | 13:29 |
| jaem | you're not going to blog about your lunch? :( | 13:29 |
| qgil | jeremiah: and why your blog posts don't appear in maemo.org | 13:29 |
| *** neatojones has quit IRC | 13:29 | |
| timeless | he probably didn't file a bug asking to join pmo | 13:30 |
| X-Fade | qgil: I will check. He is there.. | 13:30 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: did you fix the council posts in p.m.o appearing bug? | 13:30 |
| wazd | I had one idea for application manager promoting system | 13:30 |
| Stskeeps | i just saw jeremiah's post in pmo | 13:30 |
| wazd | http://s47.radikal.ru/i117/0902/b7/d2db60189e7a.jpg | 13:30 |
| Jaffa | Could be related | 13:30 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: You didn't look at the scrollback ;) | 13:30 |
| jeremiah | qgil: Well, the first one did - not sure about the others . .. | 13:30 |
| jeremiah | Stskeeps: Oh good. | 13:31 |
| X-Fade | It s there. | 13:31 |
| qgil | I found the security one thanks to google :) | 13:31 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: ah yes, ta | 13:31 |
| jeremiah | It may be PEBKAC | 13:31 |
| X-Fade | 4th item on planet. | 13:31 |
| *** benh has quit IRC | 13:31 | |
| X-Fade | jeremiah: And I think you need to write about maemo.org Security team not Maemo security team. | 13:32 |
| wazd | the more rated app is - the more intensive background it has | 13:32 |
| SaBer | is there any api call to hide the virtual keyboard? I can't seem to find one... | 13:32 |
| X-Fade | Although they can work together.. | 13:32 |
| jeremiah | X-Fade: Right, will try to be clearer. | 13:32 |
| timeless | saber: what are you trying to do and why? | 13:32 |
| X-Fade | jeremiah: Maemo and maemo.org are different things and even Nokia people are confused some time ;) | 13:33 |
| X-Fade | *sometimes | 13:33 |
| SaBer | timeless: hide the keyboard, because it is not needed at a certain point in my application, and it takes up space | 13:33 |
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| timeless | saber: the keyboard in theory should go away if it doesn't think focus is on an input area | 13:35 |
| timeless | however, the decision to have the keyboard should be up to the user | 13:35 |
| timeless | if the user wants the space, there's a minimize button in the vkb | 13:35 |
| wazd | whatever) | 13:36 |
| SaBer | timeless: I guess the hiding is not yet implemented in Qt yet... | 13:37 |
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| jaem | well, goodnight, everyone | 13:38 |
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| timeless | wow, rene doesn't seem to like the 770 | 13:40 |
| sp3000 | timeless: fud! | 13:40 |
| timeless | sp3000: agreed. | 13:41 |
| * timeless leaves | 13:41 | |
| jaem_afk | graaagggh: hackaday stole my idea ;) | 13:41 |
| jaem_afk | http://hackaday.com/2009/02/17/hackit-hackable-bluetooth-bracelet/ | 13:41 |
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| Stskeeps | jaem_afk: did your Fn work, btw? | 13:47 |
| jaem_afk | sts: >_< forgot to check | 13:47 |
| jaem_afk | I will, and then I'm *actually* going to bed | 13:48 |
| jaem_afk | it's almost 4am here | 13:48 |
| Stskeeps | hehe, okay | 13:48 |
| jaem_afk | I'm kind of annoyed at the hackaday article | 13:48 |
| jaem_afk | oh well, the war is on now | 13:48 |
| jaem_afk | and judging by DealExtreme's tardiness at shipping, I should have a bit of a headstart | 13:49 |
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| qwerty12 | They haven't actually done anything with it yet though, you'll probably beat them to it :) | 13:49 |
| jaem_afk | I hope so... | 13:49 |
| jaem_afk | last time I ordered from DX, it was backordered for > 1 month | 13:50 |
| jaem_afk | so I'm hopeful | 13:50 |
| glass | my order got shipped in about a week | 13:50 |
| jaem_afk | well, my shipping was fast | 13:50 |
| jaem_afk | but the waiting wasn't | 13:50 |
| * glass should be receiving some usb-sata dongles shortly | 13:50 | |
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| glass | it took a week for them to get the stuff from their sub-supplier or something | 13:51 |
| jaem_afk | hmm... not shipped yet | 13:51 |
| jaem_afk | darn it! | 13:51 |
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| jaem_afk | sts: Fn works marvellously | 13:52 |
| Stskeeps | good | 13:52 |
| jaem_afk | %11111000 | 13:52 |
| jaem_afk | (that was a high-five bitmask, btw) | 13:52 |
| jaem_afk | ;) | 13:52 |
| smellycat | jaem_afk: that was so lame even the woz facepalmed :P | 13:53 |
| jaem_afk | hey... I couldn't think of an emoticon | 13:54 |
| jaem_afk | I was being creative | 13:54 |
| jaem_afk | ...and I'm in Comp Eng, so what do you expect? | 13:54 |
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| jaem_afk | under "other features" on the BT bracelet page: "Can be used just as a bracelet" | 13:59 |
| jaem_afk | uhuh | 13:59 |
| jaem_afk | no kidding | 13:59 |
| * qwerty12 imagines someone presenting it in a box to their girl: "Oh, you shouldn't have!"... "Oh." | 14:00 | |
| jaem_afk | heck - if I was a girl, I'd be happy | 14:00 |
| jaem_afk | but then again, I'm not, so that probably skews things | 14:00 |
| qwerty12 | hehe | 14:01 |
| jaem_afk | hmmm... apparently we live several decades earlier than we actually do | 14:01 |
| jaem_afk | because this website claims that a QVGA camera is "high resolution" | 14:02 |
| jaem_afk | "this device is perfect for dentists"..."Note: This device is not intended for medical use. " | 14:03 |
| jaem_afk | lol | 14:03 |
| * smellycat has never seen a higher resolution bracelet camera :D | 14:03 | |
| jaem_afk | no - I'm talking about the electric toothbrush with a camera instead of bristles | 14:03 |
| smellycat | o rly? | 14:03 |
| jaem_afk | http://www.chinavasion.com/product_info.php/pName/dental-intraoral-camera-computer-usb-connection/ | 14:03 |
| smellycat | what a cool device | 14:03 |
| smellycat | o_O | 14:03 |
| glass | i wonder if theres porno made with it | 14:04 |
| * smellycat imagines the places one could use that | 14:04 | |
| * jaem_afk does not want to know | 14:04 | |
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| qgil | you can broadcast your visits to the dentist | 14:04 |
| jaem_afk | it could be the new Youtube phenomenon | 14:05 |
| qwerty12 | glass, looking at the title by any chance? | 14:05 |
| jaem_afk | day 1: the Root Canal | 14:05 |
| jaem_afk | either that, or a new reality show | 14:05 |
| smellycat | the only thing wrong is the direction its at, you cannot get any ummm trains into the tunnel shots | 14:05 |
| jaem_afk | on a sad note, it looks like the bracelet may only display numbers :( | 14:06 |
| glass | qwerty12: i think i saw the same thing for sale at dx | 14:06 |
| jaem_afk | glass: *everything* is for sale at DX | 14:06 |
| jaem_afk | including bunnies, if you're looking for the plastic/led variety, with flash memory and a bottle opener built in | 14:07 |
| jaem_afk | :D | 14:07 |
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| Stskeeps | bman_: got a laptop or something? :P | 14:17 |
| *** moontiger_ has joined #maemo | 14:18 | |
| bman_ | yeah why | 14:18 |
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| Stskeeps | not the normal way you enter :) | 14:19 |
| wazd | weee, I have a new entrance door :) | 14:19 |
| Stskeeps | woo | 14:19 |
| Stskeeps | what happened to the old one? something vodka-related? :P | 14:19 |
| wazd | Now I can stand a tank shot :) | 14:20 |
| wazd | Nope, it's just became old :) I'm having renovation in my flat | 14:20 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 14:20 |
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| wazd | The bad thing is that I had auto-lock on the old one, and new doesn't have it | 14:21 |
| bman_ | got 2 laptops and a n800ahh | 14:21 |
| bman_ | didnt read | 14:21 |
| bman_ | heh | 14:21 |
| bman_ | how goes it | 14:21 |
| wazd | It's not so handy, but now I can't get out without keys :) | 14:22 |
| Stskeeps | bman_: fine, and just to check, you're the b-man who frequent here? :P | 14:22 |
| bman_ | yeppers | 14:22 |
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| Stskeeps | probably easier to type than on an on-screen kbd :P | 14:23 |
| hahlo | can one easily change touchscreen in n800? | 14:25 |
| hahlo | is it cheap part? | 14:25 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: http://s45.radikal.ru/i108/0902/7d/2c12e5d1761e.jpg <- my next post :) | 14:27 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: hah :P | 14:29 |
| Stskeeps | TV interfaces? :P | 14:29 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: large screens interfaces) | 14:29 |
| mgedmin | hahlo: changing the screen in a n810 is gonna cost me ~150 EUR | 14:30 |
| mgedmin | which is not cheap | 14:30 |
| Stskeeps | isnt it almost cheaper to buy a new one? :P | 14:30 |
| mgedmin | wazd: awesome | 14:30 |
| mgedmin | Stskeeps: I did both :-) | 14:30 |
| hahlo | quite a lot | 14:30 |
| mgedmin | it's faster to get a new one | 14:30 |
| mgedmin | I gave my n810 to the local service last october | 14:31 |
| mgedmin | I haven't heard from them yet | 14:31 |
| mgedmin | except for a phone call last november confirming the cost | 14:31 |
| mgedmin | maybe they fixed it and forgot to call me? | 14:31 |
| X-Fade | mgedmin: I admire your patience ;) | 14:31 |
| mgedmin | what patience? I ordered a new n810 the same day I cracked my old one's screen | 14:32 |
| RST38h | they fixed it and fund a good use for it | 14:32 |
| mgedmin | it arrived in two days | 14:32 |
| mgedmin | I suffered a lot | 14:32 |
| RST38h | s/fund/found | 14:32 |
| mgedmin | during those two days | 14:32 |
| mgedmin | well, a little ;) | 14:32 |
| X-Fade | mgedmin: But you didn't even ping them for status updates? | 14:32 |
| mgedmin | nope, I have a working n810, so I don't care | 14:32 |
| mgedmin | I should ping them when I go back home | 14:32 |
| * mgedmin on a trip to Sweden right now | 14:32 | |
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| mgedmin | I should've accepted the kind offer of some guy with a @nokia.com email who offered to send me his broken n810 with a working screen | 14:33 |
| mgedmin | but I wanted to see what dealing with nokia's authorized service was like in Lithuania | 14:33 |
| RST38h | probably as bad as everywhere else | 14:33 |
| mgedmin | also, I'm not a screwdriver-using person | 14:33 |
| mgedmin | I sort of know which end to hold | 14:34 |
| mgedmin | 'sharp end towards enemy' ;) | 14:34 |
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| * lardman thinks bt bracelet is good idea - smart house, etc | 14:34 | |
| * mgedmin is afraid of stupid houses | 14:35 | |
| mgedmin | I mean, anyone who works with software knows enough not to trust it | 14:35 |
| aquatix | well, then i'm afraid of smart houses too | 14:36 |
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| wazd | http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/19/access-linux-platform-3-0-live-in-person-and-oh-so-full-of-wid/ | 14:38 |
| wazd | omg! Look! They are transparent! | 14:38 |
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| wazd | And I can move them around! It's superawesome! | 14:39 |
| RST38h | wazd: whi are these guys? | 14:39 |
| Stskeeps | access linux.. another linux mobile stack | 14:40 |
| Stskeeps | afaik | 14:40 |
| RST38h | YALMS =) | 14:40 |
| wazd | RST38h: Yet another linux mobile platform) | 14:40 |
| wazd | RST38h: lol) | 14:40 |
| RST38h | Oh well... | 14:41 |
| wazd | This lady is pretty excited with transparency) | 14:41 |
| RST38h | Don't show this video to lcuk, he may get new ideas from it! =) | 14:42 |
| * Stskeeps orders a mmcmobile card | 14:42 | |
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| * RST38h screwed up some constructor and can't run the code now | 14:43 | |
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| t_s_o | wazd: females and eye candy?... | 14:46 |
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| wazd | RST38h: http://theparks.livejournal.com/11904.html | 14:47 |
| wazd | RST38h: Vodka - poison! | 14:47 |
| aquatix | t_s_o: transparency and females | 14:47 |
| t_s_o | aquatix: for their enjoyment or ours? ;) | 14:47 |
| t_s_o | lardman: reading "coolest gadgets"? | 14:48 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: with mer we just need XKCD applet going and we have 95% of the geek population.. | 14:48 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps: it's in python, shouldn't be hard :) | 14:48 |
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| RST38h | wazd: There are worse, much worse things... | 14:49 |
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| RST38h | wazd: http://talar.sitecity.ru/album_0710045239.phtml (investigate carefully, danger of permanent braindamage) | 14:49 |
| t_s_o | hmm, been kinda quiet around tear lately... | 14:49 |
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| t_s_o | RST38h: that background was bad enough. tie dye to the nth... | 14:51 |
| aquatix | t_s_o: preferably both ;) | 14:51 |
| RST38h | t_s_o: madmen absolutley LOVE that | 14:51 |
| t_s_o | heh, and addicts, maybe... | 14:52 |
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| matmo | anyone using pluthon on winxp? | 15:05 |
| thopiekar | (linux) | 15:06 |
| matmo | work ok on Linux? | 15:07 |
| thopiekar | yes.. | 15:08 |
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| thopiekar | have you installed copssh? | 15:09 |
| matmo | I'm wondering A) can I use existing ssh keys (putty) and B) can wifi be used in place of usb networking? Yep, I have just installed copssh. | 15:09 |
| matmo | B ) | 15:10 |
| thopiekar | matmo: so where is the problem? | 15:10 |
| matmo | I have just finished installing everything and don't want to fuk it all up :-) | 15:11 |
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| thopiekar | have you set up the */copssh/bin folder as a path in windows's settings? | 15:11 |
| thopiekar | * as explained in the how-to? | 15:11 |
| matmo | yep | 15:12 |
| thopiekar | hmm... | 15:12 |
| thopiekar | It should work :| | 15:12 |
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| matmo | Have pc-connectivity on tablet, bugzilla says usb-net prob won't work and I don't see why I need to create ssh keys when I have some for putty | 15:13 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | iirc, putty keys use a different format, and you'll have to use wifi as RNDIS support is broken in the 2.6.21 kernel | 15:14 |
| matmo | ok | 15:15 |
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| timeless | there are tools to convert key formats | 15:16 |
| timeless | iirc they're described in the putty docs | 15:17 |
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| Stskeeps | hmm | 15:30 |
| Stskeeps | i just compiled cx3110x 1.2 for 770 | 15:30 |
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| Stskeeps | well that is much more stable scanning, hmm | 15:35 |
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| Stskeeps | OK, so, cx3110x, which is newest, 0.8.5 or 1.2, because timestamps on garage is 0.8.5 before 1.2 .. | 15:38 |
| * GeneralAntilles shudders at the thought of encouraging .deb-only distribution. | 15:39 | |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Blob heaven ;) | 15:39 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | Now that we have jeremiah, it shouldn't really be an option. .deb only is for people who don't know how to use dh_make and use pypackager | 15:41 |
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| jeremiah | BTW, do we have a naming convention for packages? i.e. app-1.1-maemo-1 | 15:43 |
| jeremiah | Must check the docs about that .. . | 15:43 |
| X-Fade | jeremiah: We follow debian numbering. | 15:44 |
| X-Fade | jeremiah: And your example: FAIL :) | 15:44 |
| jeremiah | X-Fade: :P | 15:44 |
| X-Fade | jeremiah: http://maemo.org/forrest-images/pdf/maemo-policy.pdf | 15:45 |
| X-Fade | I think you will find all info you need in that policy. | 15:45 |
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| X-Fade | It is the Debian packaging policy + some Maemo related changes. | 15:46 |
| jeremiah | X-Fade: Thanks! | 15:47 |
| X-Fade | jeremiah: That will keep you busy for a while ;) | 15:47 |
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| tekojo | X-Fade: you really are loading jeremiah every chance you get :-) | 15:50 |
| X-Fade | tekojo: Comes with the job ;) | 15:50 |
| matmo | timeless: thanks, looks easier just to create new keys | 15:50 |
| matmo | pluthon user guide, create keys, ssh2 home: should this directory already exist? | 15:51 |
| * GeneralAntilles sighs at the ever decreasing number of PPC applications. | 15:51 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | Time to embrace Intel, eh? :p | 15:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | If only I had the cash. | 15:52 |
| matmo | orig mac mini = headless file server | 15:53 |
| RST38h | General: Just buy a Mac Mini | 15:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, as my primary machine? | 15:54 |
| RST38h | Well, worth trying | 15:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm not spending $800 to downgrade my hardware. | 15:54 |
| * RST38h thought Minis went for $500 | 15:55 | |
| jeremiah | The mini has Core 2 duo and you can get them with 2 gigs RAM | 15:55 |
| jeremiah | Linux runs about 30% faster on it that native OS X | 15:55 |
| RST38h | This would probably be faster than your PPC =) | 15:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | jeremiah, and I've got 6GB in my dual-2.5GHz G5. ;) | 15:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, or not. | 15:55 |
| RST38h | As I said, worth trying | 15:55 |
| jeremiah | GeneralAntilles: Yeah, that's the thing, you can't get over 2 gigs on the mini | 15:56 |
| jeremiah | GeneralAntilles: So kind of rules that out. | 15:56 |
| ||cw | isn't a 1.5Ghz core2 faster than a 2.5Ghz G5? | 15:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | I can't get away with a tiny video card like that anyway. | 15:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | ||cw, ha! | 15:56 |
| RST38h | HOLY WAR TIME! | 15:56 |
| * Jaffa got rid of his original Mini a while ago and realised since I only ever ran OSS apps (primarily, Gimp, Inkscape, Firefox and an SSH client) I could do that on a nice commodity self-built Linux box, no matter how nice the Apple hardware & OS is. | 15:56 | |
| ||cw | nothing about holy war, you can't compare clock | 15:56 |
| RST38h | Under certain conditions (not met by PPC vs Intel) you can | 15:57 |
| glass | ppc uberism was just apple pr shit | 15:57 |
| jeremiah | The mini is so quiet though, that is what makes it so nice. | 15:57 |
| jeremiah | It is a pretty crippled machine though and you pay the Apple tax for a proprietary system | 15:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | jeremiah, I've slept in close proximity to a G5 for many years. | 15:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Quiet isn't important. | 15:58 |
| RST38h | Is sleeping in close proximity to it important? =) | 15:58 |
| jeremiah | Well, then I cannot make a case for the mini. :P | 15:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm pulling for a radiator leak resulting in a free Mac Pro upgrade, personally. | 15:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, I don't have a large apartment. | 15:58 |
| RST38h | General: I did mean it in a different sense =) | 15:59 |
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| glass | GeneralAntilles: long cabling ftw | 15:59 |
| RST38h | But if you are tight on budget, that basically leaves Mini or some small self-built box | 15:59 |
| matmo | C:\Documents and Settings\pluthon\.ssh - replace "pluthon" by account name for copSSH? Should .ssh already exist? | 15:59 |
| RST38h | <=$600 | 15:59 |
| glass | small atom self builts should be pretty much under 600 | 15:59 |
| glass | you can get a laptop for 600 | 16:00 |
| RST38h | Atom is too slow | 16:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | glass, seriously, G5 -> Atom? | 16:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | I mean, really. | 16:00 |
| RST38h | Not usable for serious work - I checked =( | 16:00 |
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| glass | GeneralAntilles: mini | 16:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm not paying money to downgrade my primary machine. | 16:00 |
| ||cw | atom is too slow | 16:01 |
| ||cw | it's fine for web browsing and stuff | 16:01 |
| RST38h | Then sooner or later it will become obsolete | 16:01 |
| glass | everything will | 16:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, eventually I'll have money to upgrade to a better machine. | 16:02 |
| hahlo | is there arm laptops? | 16:02 |
| RST38h | glass: well, a pc will of course become "slower" with time, but it won't become totally obsolete | 16:02 |
| glass | eventually better machines will be free too | 16:02 |
| glass | RST38h: i view it as obsolote as in value if similar machines can be bonked for free | 16:02 |
| RST38h | General: You can no longer upgrade to a better PPC box =( | 16:02 |
| matmo | anyone? Does pluthon setup need a "pluthon" user for copSSH or what? | 16:03 |
| RST38h | glass: In poor general's case, the whole architecture is becoming obsolete (sadly, because PPC was a good CPU) | 16:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, well, you could, but it'd require handing quite a bit of money over to IBM. | 16:03 |
| glass | RST38h: i don't see much good about g5, seriously | 16:03 |
| * RST38h checks if IBM is still producing RS-series | 16:03 | |
| RST38h | glass: lotsa registers | 16:03 |
| glass | friggin noisy, not good buck per dollar | 16:03 |
| glass | punch | 16:04 |
| RST38h | General: Yesss, you CAN upgrade: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/PSeries | 16:04 |
| RST38h | (in a sense) | 16:04 |
| ccooke | GeneralAntilles: Butcher an xbox360 into running OSX? Decent graphics and a tri-core, later generation CPU... ;-) | 16:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | ccooke, sadly not enough RAM. | 16:05 |
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| jeremiah | X-Fade: Does lintian get run at any point over incoming packages? | 16:05 |
| ||cw | matmo: I think you'd need to ask the copSSH people | 16:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | jeremiah, we need a Maemo-specific version first, I think. | 16:06 |
| X-Fade | jeremiah: GA is right. | 16:06 |
| RST38h | http://www-03.ibm.com/systems/intellistation/index.html <== you can chat to them in real time, asking abut the price :) | 16:06 |
| glass | ccooke: it would be crap.. but running osx on it would be an accomplishment | 16:07 |
| jeremiah | GeneralAntilles: Can we start using it and strip stuff / add stuff as needed? | 16:07 |
| X-Fade | jeremiah: Nokia has a modified lintian internally, we would need to get that one first. | 16:07 |
| jeremiah | X-Fade: Yeah, the internal lintian would be great. | 16:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Can we file a bug? | 16:07 |
| matmo | ||cw: maybe, but this is a setting in eclipse and instructions in the pluthon help section | 16:07 |
| jeremiah | I work with linitian current maintainer in debian, Russ Aberry, so he would be interested in our use of it I think. | 16:08 |
| jeremiah | GeneralAntilles: I will do that now. | 16:08 |
| ccooke | GeneralAntilles: Hmm. lintian's not too hard to modify. Is there some understanding on what needs to change? | 16:08 |
| X-Fade | ccooke: Not too much, just some maemo specific rules like our own Sections etc.. | 16:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | ccooke, so it checks for and respects the stuff outlined in the Maemo Packaging Policy. | 16:08 |
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| ccooke | GeneralAntilles: Ah ha. | 16:08 |
| jeremiah | lintian is written in perl | 16:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, the title for maemo.org is going to have to change. | 16:09 |
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| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Can be added to the new style? | 16:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, yeah, I was looking at newstyle which is what reminded me. | 16:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's not just the development platform and it's arguably no longer just for internet tablets. | 16:11 |
| jeremiah | GeneralAntilles: When I file a bug, which section should it go in? Maemo.org website, since it is a repository tool? | 16:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | First, maemo.org is never capitalized. :P | 16:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Second, good question. :P | 16:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | If not a bug, we could always poke -developers. | 16:12 |
| jeremiah | Third, Okay. :) | 16:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Quim or somebody can figure it out I'm sure. | 16:12 |
| jeremiah | El Quim! | 16:12 |
| jeremiah | Email to -developers it is then. :) | 16:13 |
| * GeneralAntilles had a dream about the community manager discussion last night. . . . | 16:13 | |
| RST38h | Don't you have irc already? | 16:13 |
| Stskeeps | in your dreams? | 16:15 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | That'll come when we get neural implants. | 16:15 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: brain meltdown when accessing iTT .. | 16:15 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:15 |
| * GeneralAntilles shakes his head at ThoughFix's readership. | 16:16 | |
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| RST38h | Well, ThoughtFix isn't married to the tablet, he has rights to wonder =) | 16:18 |
| Stskeeps | scary | 16:18 |
| Stskeeps | i might actually have a sane wifi driver for my 770 now | 16:18 |
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| RST38h | However naively | 16:18 |
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| RST38h | Wow, WinXP boots/ | 16:20 |
| Stskeeps | on tablets? ;> | 16:21 |
| hahlo | does xp boot on tablet? | 16:23 |
| jeremiah | Wow, WinXP boots at all? | 16:24 |
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| hahlo | good porting to boot xp on tablet | 16:25 |
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| Stskeeps | https://code.launchpad.net/~mer-committers/m-r/cx3110x-770 <- cx3110x 1.2 for 770 | 16:27 |
| t_s_o | hmm, bluetooth over wifi radio... | 16:31 |
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| t_s_o | heh, seems like the wireless equivalent of running usb over ethernet... | 16:33 |
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| Stskeeps | r2d2rogers: ping | 16:35 |
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| t_s_o | ugh, it seems that most only see bluetooth as a slow file transfer system, and one that can be replaced by wifi using ftp/http/whatever other file transfer related protocols are out there... | 16:38 |
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| t_s_o | still, i find it odd that they need to piggy back on wifi to speed up... | 16:39 |
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| Stskeeps | did you try bluetooth recently? :P | 16:40 |
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| t_s_o | Stskeeps: 2.x + edr your hinting at? | 16:40 |
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| t_s_o | i just wonder what wifi is doing differently to bluetooth to have the speed difference that it has. they are both working in the same frequency band, after all... | 16:41 |
| suihkulokki | t_s_o: using much more electricity | 16:42 |
| t_s_o | suihkulokki: sounds to simple, as that makes me ask why they cant just pump more into the existing bluetooth radio as needed... | 16:43 |
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| aquatix | well, bluetooth 3 will have a lot more bandwidth | 16:45 |
| aquatix | but the bluetooth radio and chips are a lot more simple than wifi | 16:45 |
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| t_s_o | so its one of those "devil in details" topics... | 16:46 |
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| t_s_o | funny how they can be simpler, yet have all these profiles defined... | 16:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, profiles are on a higher level than the RF. ;) | 16:47 |
| t_s_o | heh, true | 16:47 |
| t_s_o | and i got to say, i love them | 16:47 |
| t_s_o | just wish maemo had a storage browsing profile going | 16:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | I just wish devices were consistent about implementing them. | 16:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Half the devices you use that are advertised as supporting certain profiles wont do so without crashing or sending junk data. | 16:48 |
| RST38h | t_s_o: Afaik WiFi uses spread-spectrum, BT uses frequency hopping | 16:49 |
| RST38h | But Wikipedia will surely have more complete and uptodate info | 16:49 |
| t_s_o | heh, indeed. almost to much ;) | 16:49 |
| RST38h | WiFi links do use wider spectrum chunks, so they can pump more data there | 16:49 |
| t_s_o | GeneralAntilles: with devices, are you saying "phones"? i can see how that can happen if one run into phones with operator supplied firmwares, where they try to stop the user from accessing specific bluetooth features... | 16:51 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Nah, it's not operator meddling, it's mostly just shitty software QA. ;) | 16:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, not that operators don't meddle, but when they do it just means that the profile is removed. | 16:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not that it sort of half works. | 16:56 |
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| t_s_o | well they could end up messing up one when trying to kill the other, one never knows... | 17:02 |
| t_s_o | still, i cant say i have had any issues mixing bluetooth devices so far. but then i have not sat down and looked at the actual packets being transmitted... | 17:03 |
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| luke-jr | hm | 17:07 |
| luke-jr | guess that "8 days" of battery life doesn't apply when GPS is left on :/ | 17:07 |
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| GeneralAntilles | No, really? | 17:08 |
| tank-man | even standalone gps loggers don't last 8 days | 17:08 |
| luke-jr | well, it's only receiving.. : | 17:08 |
| luke-jr | :p | 17:08 |
| luke-jr | oh well | 17:08 |
| luke-jr | so why is there no kismet port/ | 17:09 |
| luke-jr | ? | 17:09 |
| qwerty12_N800 | www.google.com | 17:09 |
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| Stskeeps | Meizirkki: hal should be autodetecting Fn now | 17:22 |
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| wazd | Nokia signs ˆ500 million loan for Symbian R&D | 17:27 |
| wazd | I can be hired for much lower price :P | 17:27 |
| RST38h | Yes, but can you be made to do Symbian R&D? =) | 17:28 |
| glass | go work at some firm they buy r&d then from | 17:28 |
| RST38h | glass: Let us just create a new firm | 17:29 |
| wazd | Well, I think I can do R&D in UI sphere :) | 17:30 |
| RST38h | glass: RUR/USD exchange rate is real good for that right now, and we can always expect Quim to bring some work =) | 17:30 |
| wazd | And industrial design | 17:30 |
| RST38h | wazd: Symbian hasn't done any UI R&D for...mm...years? =) | 17:31 |
| wazd | RST38h: centuries xD | 17:31 |
| Macer | cmon UPS | 17:32 |
| glass | RST38h: hehe | 17:33 |
| Macer | i have like 4 pkgs showing up today | 17:33 |
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| Macer | i'm excited.. it's like waiting on santa claus | 17:33 |
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| RST38h | Ahhahahaha: http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2009/02/solarbatteries.jpg | 17:34 |
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| wazd | nice) | 17:35 |
| Macer | heh | 17:44 |
| Macer | do those actually work? | 17:44 |
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| Macer | seems like an interesting concept | 17:44 |
| RST38h | I do not think they will work well | 17:45 |
| Meizirkki | Stskeeps, great. i can't test it right now, my tablet is being repaired. :( | 17:45 |
| RST38h | Not enough area to charge the battery | 17:46 |
| RST38h | ...It seems that in this case a "long-duration" blast is one lasting three seconds or so. However, company energy-cannon chief Dan Wildt said the laser could easily have kept blazing for longer, but this would have destroyed or melted the ground test equipment... | 17:46 |
| Macer | RST38h: don't think so? | 17:47 |
| Macer | anyways.. let me go wait for UPS | 17:48 |
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| jeremiah | Hmm. That libogg build failed. I will try to look at that when I get home. | 17:51 |
| jeremiah | libvorbis too. | 17:51 |
| X-Fade | jeremiah: Didn't fail. Was rejected. | 17:52 |
| X-Fade | jeremiah: As the same version was already in the repo. | 17:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | You have to say it in the UT announcer's voice, though. | 17:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | "RE-JECTED!" | 17:53 |
| jeremiah | Ah. My bad. | 17:53 |
| X-Fade | Nice buzzer.... | 17:53 |
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| jeremiah | Me read good one day. | 17:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Does the web interface warn you if the version needs bumping? | 17:54 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: You get a mail. | 17:54 |
| X-Fade | Which says: [2009-02-19 17:50:07] REJECTED: The same or newer version (libvorbis 1.2.0.dfsg-3.1maemo0) is already in extras-devel | 17:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Any way to catch that in the web interface? | 17:55 |
| wazd | omg, ipod touch is a good evoluton for n800... I need some vodka... | 17:55 |
| X-Fade | Probably. If you grep the Packages file. | 17:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, tabletblog readers. | 17:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't get them. | 17:57 |
| wazd | http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/19/stantums-mind-blowing-multitouch-interface-on-video/ | 17:57 |
| wazd | oh, thats nice) | 17:57 |
| wazd | resisted multitouch) | 17:57 |
| wazd | resistive | 17:57 |
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| luke-jr | any way to get the GPS to auto-turn off if there's been no movement within 5 seconds? | 18:00 |
| luke-jr | and reenable when the accelerometer detects movement? | 18:00 |
| qwerty12 | accelerometer? The N810 doesn't have one. | 18:00 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lol. . . . | 18:01 |
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| aquatix | wazd: i like this one too: http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/17/panasonics-103-inch-plasma-repurposed-as-multitouch-air-hockey/ | 18:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | I never understood using an accelerometer to activate GPS | 18:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | So, when you move it from one side of your desk to the other, you should get a new GPS fix? | 18:02 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: You can wave all you want with your device and it would probably not change your GPS position anyway. | 18:03 |
| X-Fade | Your arm is not long enough ;) | 18:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, especially not with the N810's GPS chip. ;) | 18:03 |
| wazd | It's said that this thing is software based | 18:03 |
| X-Fade | Especially with any end user GPS. | 18:03 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, well if it's really accurate you could just do dead reckoning :) | 18:03 |
| wazd | I don't beleive) | 18:03 |
| luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: but if you *don't* move it, the GPS is unnecessary power consumption | 18:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, I want a tablet that can figure my position based on vector information from the accelerometer from the previous GPS fix. | 18:04 |
| johnx | if you're just leaving it sitting on your desk, why not plug it into power? | 18:04 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, hence 'dead reckoning' | 18:04 |
| X-Fade | luke-jr: When you sit in a car the accelerometer won't detect your movement. | 18:04 |
| luke-jr | johnx: plugged in, it will charge faster ;) | 18:04 |
| X-Fade | luke-jr: Unless you accelerate or brake. | 18:04 |
| luke-jr | X-Fade: that's why the GPS only turns off if you stop moving | 18:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, the actually technical implementation of that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_navigation_system | 18:05 |
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| johnx | luke-jr, accelerometers don't detect movement they detect acceleration. If you're driving in a straight line at a constant speed the accelerometer will read the same as if you sit it on a desk | 18:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/actually/actual/ | 18:06 |
| infobot_ | GeneralAntilles meant: johnx, the actual technical implementation of that: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inertial_navigation_system | 18:06 |
| luke-jr | johnx: that's why the GPS only turns off if you stop moving | 18:06 |
| luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: anyhow, the repo someone linked for kismet is closed at maemo's request | 18:06 |
| luke-jr | and kismet isn't in Extras… | 18:06 |
| johnx | luke-jr, you could probably do this with dbus-scripts | 18:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh god, not this BS again. | 18:07 |
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| luke-jr | why is the internal flash card mmc1 if there's no external, and mmc2 if there is? :/ | 18:09 |
| johnx | if you can repeat that behavior it's a bug and you should write a bug report | 18:11 |
| johnx | it's not normal | 18:11 |
| luke-jr | O.o | 18:11 |
| luke-jr | what is normal then? | 18:12 |
| johnx | mmc1 = external, mmc2 = internal | 18:12 |
| luke-jr | so mmc1 should be unmounted if no external present? | 18:13 |
| johnx | that's right | 18:13 |
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| luke-jr | is it normal for mmcblk1 to be my external? | 18:15 |
| johnx | yes | 18:15 |
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| johnx | external is /dev/mmcblk1, internal is /dev/mmcblk0 | 18:16 |
| luke-jr | E: Package e2fsprogs has no installation candidate | 18:16 |
| luke-jr | sigh | 18:16 |
| johnx | apt-cache policy e2fsprogs | 18:17 |
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| luke-jr | unfortunately, removing the external microSD/miniSD seems impractical without risking breaking it | 18:18 |
| johnx | uhm, what? | 18:19 |
| luke-jr | e2fsprogs: Installed: (none) Candidate: (none) Version table: | 18:19 |
| luke-jr | johnx: it was difficult to put in, and even more difficult to remove | 18:19 |
| johnx | it's not going to break though | 18:19 |
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| johnx | but yeah, microsd -> sd/minisd adapters are a pain | 18:20 |
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| johnx | I don't remember what repo e2fsprogs is in. it's either extras, extras-devel or tools | 18:20 |
| andre__ | jeremiah, which address in bugzilla to keep? @maemo.org? | 18:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.google.com/search?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&q=site:repository.maemo.org+e2fsprogs | 18:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Extras-devel | 18:24 |
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| dneary | X-Fade: Proposed a Karma for Applications calculation | 18:35 |
| dneary | Imperfect, but existing :) | 18:35 |
| X-Fade | dneary: Yeah, reading it. | 18:37 |
| X-Fade | I think the idea of karma for apps would be to show the hot apps of the moment. | 18:37 |
| X-Fade | Just like faving does for the news page. | 18:37 |
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| wazd | http://www.stantum.com <- interesting site indeed) | 18:41 |
| t_s_o | i cant help but wonder if karel have gremlins or something... | 18:42 |
| johnx | it would certainly explain a lot... | 18:43 |
| qwerty12 | Nah, just a constant hard-on over the pandora | 18:43 |
| johnx | oh that'll be fun :> | 18:43 |
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| t_s_o | tech gives me many things, but hard-on? only indirectly ;) | 18:49 |
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| thopiekar | how fast are packages, which were builded into extras, available on the device? | 18:54 |
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| thopiekar | wazd: http://www.stantum.com/video/stylus320.html | 18:58 |
| slonopotamus | help | 18:58 |
| slonopotamus | i did something and now image-viewer rotates image per 90 in fullscreen mode | 18:59 |
| * wazd likes to have fun with thoughtfix users :) | 18:59 | |
| johnx | slonopotamus, what is it supposed to rotate by? | 18:59 |
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| wazd | thopiekar: yep, saw that, that's really resistive multitouch) | 19:02 |
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| slonopotamus_ | crap | 19:02 |
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| johnx | then I think rotating by 90degrees is an improvement :) | 19:03 |
| slonopotamus_ | do not ever try to rotate 2636 x 3347 image in maemo viewer | 19:03 |
| thopiekar | X-Fade ? | 19:03 |
| slonopotamus_ | johnx, this damn thing first hang and then rebooted. | 19:04 |
| wazd | I really dream bout some kind of pocket device to manage raw photos on the go | 19:04 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, probably went OOM | 19:04 |
| * qwerty12 prefers quiver, shame that it's closed but doesn't deter it from being good in any way | 19:04 | |
| wazd | queerver xD | 19:04 |
| slonopotamus_ | johnx,probably. why not just kill something? | 19:04 |
| johnx | maybe it went too long without kicking the watchdog before it the OOM killer was triggered | 19:05 |
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| thopiekar | how fast are packages, which were builded into extras with maemo extras assistant, available in the repo?.. | 19:05 |
| slonopotamus_ | crap. some miserable 200k png kills device with 128mb ram. | 19:06 |
| johnx | it's not 200k in memory :) | 19:06 |
| slonopotamus_ | well | 19:06 |
| johnx | but yeah: don't use Nokia's image viewer | 19:07 |
| slonopotamus_ | if it managed to load it, why it needs more memory to rotate? | 19:07 |
| slonopotamus_ | do not tell me they create second buffer | 19:07 |
| johnx | heh | 19:07 |
| johnx | ok, I won't tell you that | 19:07 |
| slonopotamus_ | they do? | 19:07 |
| * johnx doesn't work for Nokia | 19:07 | |
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| johnx | but seriously, don't waste time on that program | 19:08 |
| slonopotamus_ | johnx, that's why i say 'they' | 19:08 |
| slonopotamus_ | johnx, :P | 19:08 |
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| slonopotamus_ | but really. it's hard to read rotated image. | 19:09 |
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| johnx | turn your device sideways :) | 19:13 |
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| thopiekar | could someone please tell my how the folder is called | 19:18 |
| thopiekar | .. in .MyDocs for music? | 19:18 |
| johnx | .audio I think | 19:18 |
| thopiekar | sure? | 19:18 |
| johnx | no | 19:18 |
| thopiekar | could you please check it out for me? | 19:19 |
| wnd | there's ~/MyDocs/.sounds | 19:19 |
| thopiekar | ok thanks you two | 19:19 |
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| * Stskeeps takes a look at bundyo's cx3110x-wifi-patch | 19:32 | |
| johnx | ooooh, what's it do? | 19:32 |
| Stskeeps | well it is for 770 and he claims it builds under newer kernels | 19:33 |
| johnx | ah, well that's awesome. did you dig up a card for your shiny new tablet yet? :) | 19:34 |
| Stskeeps | in the mail monday hopefully | 19:34 |
| mikkov_ | qwerty12: roxterm's postinst is buggy http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=265708&postcount=10 | 19:34 |
| mikkov_ | qwerty12: but you already read it ;) | 19:34 |
| qwerty12 | mikkov_, I saw :/, thank you for pointing it out- will fix (and find a better way of setting the defaults) | 19:35 |
| Stskeeps | rzr: did wifi ever work under nitdroid-770? | 19:36 |
| rzr | no i had no AP that time | 19:37 |
| rzr | and it wasnt working | 19:37 |
| rzr | but i've been told it could be supported | 19:37 |
| mikkov_ | qwerty12: using a wrapper script to start roxterm is one solution | 19:38 |
| qwerty12 | I like that idea, will look into it if I can't find a way to do it directly. Thanks! :) | 19:39 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: at least i got cx3110x 1.2 working on the kernel which seems a hell lot saner than 0.8.5 | 19:43 |
| Stskeeps | which made "blind" scans constantly | 19:43 |
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| Stskeeps | what is SoftMAC anyway? it doesn't communicate directly with chip i guess | 19:52 |
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| qwerty12 | mikkov_, fixed it in the version sent to the builder. Just got to wait now :). Thanks again :) | 19:54 |
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| thopiekar | are these paths right? N800: internal mmc: /media/mmc2/ ; external: mmc1 | N810: SD/MMC mmc1? | 19:59 |
| johnx | yes | 20:00 |
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| johnx | are you seeing something different? | 20:00 |
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| ShadowJK | iirc if you boot without card in the minisd slot, they get swapped around? | 20:01 |
| thopiekar | my N800 is at a repair shop near me.. so I can't look whether its right :) | 20:01 |
| thopiekar | johnx: thanks anyway.. | 20:01 |
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| mgedmin | I don't think that's the case... | 20:03 |
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| mgedmin | I think mmc1 is always the external one | 20:04 |
| mgedmin | both on n810 and on n800 | 20:04 |
| mgedmin | I only have a n810, and I'm not willing to pull out my external card to test it | 20:04 |
| johnx | it appears that some people's tablets have slightly strange behavior in that regard | 20:07 |
| Meizirkki | /dev/mmcblk1 is external card in maemo, but wherever else (Mer, Ubuntu, Deblet, Initfs) the external card is always /dev/mmcblk0 | 20:07 |
| johnx | for you, maybe | 20:08 |
| Stskeeps | it isnt always like that :P there's a whole bug on it | 20:08 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:08 |
| Meizirkki | But mount points under /media are always the same in maemo | 20:08 |
| Meizirkki | ok | 20:08 |
| johnx | in over a year playing with debian on n800 I never saw my cards 'swapped' | 20:08 |
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| * Stskeeps glances over at the 770 | 20:09 | |
| Stskeeps | i wouldn't mind a black n800. | 20:10 |
| wazd | wow | 20:10 |
| wazd | google just gave me "Keysicho" captcha :) | 20:11 |
| wazd | thats not me! :( | 20:11 |
| Stskeeps | hmm, Stantum is a bit like lcuk's multitouc | 20:12 |
| Stskeeps | h | 20:12 |
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| Stskeeps | wb qwerty12_mer | 20:15 |
| qwerty12_mer | hi again :) | 20:16 |
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| qwerty12_mer | think i've merized maemo-xkb-plugin successfully... | 20:17 |
| Stskeeps | xkb-plugin? the CPA? | 20:17 |
| qwerty12_mer | both, applet & cpa from that garage link you gave me | 20:18 |
| luke-jr | how does one install 'diff'? it conflicts with busybox :/ | 20:18 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: welcome to hell.maemo.org | 20:19 |
| luke-jr | -.- | 20:19 |
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| wazd | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=265719#post265719 | 20:21 |
| wazd | Sorry, couldn't stand it :) | 20:21 |
| wazd | New Airbus is just so awesome) | 20:21 |
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| Corsac | screenshots? | 20:23 |
| wazd | http://www.airbus.com/store/mm_repository/cockpit_airbusA380/flash/cockpit1.htm | 20:23 |
| johnx | luke-jr, that's part of the inspiration for mer | 20:23 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: I think we should port Mer to Airbus xD | 20:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, you're a bad person. :P | 20:24 |
| luke-jr | -.- | 20:24 |
| luke-jr | johnx: is it solvable? | 20:24 |
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| johnx | luke-jr, in mer: yes, we use coreutils | 20:25 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: That's me :P | 20:25 |
| luke-jr | short of installing Gentoo, I mean? | 20:25 |
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| wazd | GeneralAntilles: those iPod users on thoughtfix's blog are really fun) | 20:25 |
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| johnx | blagh. Stskeeps I found you the thread that *used* to pictures of a black N800...but it's just broken links now :/ | 20:27 |
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| wazd | GeneralAntilles: they are like "For handwrittin notes I carry old fashioned tree-based options" :) | 20:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless, ping? | 20:28 |
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| luke-jr | am I actually required to ahve a vfat on my MMC? | 20:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, that was ToughtFix. | 20:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Should be on his blog. | 20:28 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, someone else | 20:28 |
| johnx | thoughtfix's tablet is terrifying red+black :P | 20:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh? | 20:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | It WAS black | 20:29 |
| johnx | http://tabletblog.com/2007/10/i-painted-my-n800.html | 20:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 20:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's new | 20:29 |
| johnx | and this: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=6442 | 20:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, to me. | 20:29 |
| johnx | luke-jr, of course not | 20:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | I just remember the shot from when he got his N810 | 20:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | OK, what would you call a boot logo package? | 20:29 |
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| wazd | I can make you any n800 color you want :) | 20:30 |
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| GeneralAntilles | "maemo.org Splash Screen" "maemo.org Startup Images" "maemo.org Boot Logo"? Something else? | 20:30 |
| * thopiekar has added today 5 multisource-packages to extras(-devel) [tre,streamripper,xbitmaps,lynx,debianutils] and just waits for lynx to build xterm... | 20:30 | |
| luke-jr | err, my mmcblk1 disappeared while I was getting e2fsprogs :x | 20:31 |
| wazd | maemo.org boot? O-o | 20:31 |
| wazd | have I missed something?) | 20:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, qwerty12 put together a startup screen package for me. | 20:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm putting the finishing touches on it. | 20:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | It replaces the Nokia logo, progress bar, and hands with maemo.org stuff. | 20:32 |
| wazd | oh | 20:32 |
| luke-jr | johnx: removed miniSD successfuly, rebooting to see mmc assignments | 20:32 |
| wazd | can I take a look?) | 20:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/maemo.org.zip | 20:33 |
| wazd | johnx: http://4.bp.blogspot.com/_Ki_XGZxWsq4/RytscNaqx1I/AAAAAAAAChU/0VZNFbTii8A/s400/threetablets.jpg | 20:33 |
| luke-jr | /dev/mmcblk0p1 on /media/mmc2 type vfat (rw,nosuid,nodev,noexec,noatime,nodiratime,uid=29999,fmask=0133,dmask=0000,codepage=cp437,iocharset=iso8859-1,shortname=mixed,utf8) | 20:34 |
| qwerty12_N800 | GeneralAntilles: I didn't include the hands because the iTT attachment have it in the zip :/ | 20:34 |
| qwerty12_N800 | s/have/didn't have/ | 20:34 |
| infobot_ | qwerty12_N800 meant: GeneralAntilles: I didn't include the hands because the iTT attachment didn't have it in the zip :/ | 20:34 |
| johnx | wazd, nice find :) | 20:34 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: if i had mer on airbus i would be slightly more afraid to fly. | 20:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N800, I'm assuming I can just add another dpkg-divert line to the postrm and preinsts for the hands, right. | 20:35 |
| luke-jr | how am I *supposed* to put the miniSD in? | 20:35 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | GeneralAntilles: yep, and a dh_install line in the rules file | 20:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, missed that one. | 20:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | OK. | 20:36 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Going with "maemo.org Startup Screen" barring better input. | 20:37 |
| thopiekar | for everyone who wants to recorde internetradio-streams on the iTT.. check this out: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=265725 :) | 20:38 |
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| luke-jr | stupid miniSD won't go in all the way :zx | 20:40 |
| Stskeeps | eh, sure you are putting it in right? | 20:41 |
| Stskeeps | like, right rotation | 20:42 |
| luke-jr | screwdriver helped | 20:42 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: just can't get my fingers to push it far enough | 20:42 |
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| zs1 | hi, i got internet connection on my n810 via usb0 but when i am trying to use browser or other app it doesn't work. I still can do app-get update or ping. How can I fix it? | 20:47 |
| Stskeeps | get a dummy connection | 20:49 |
| thopiekar | you need a dummy-connection entry.. like the entry of your wlan, etc... If you install pc-connection in the program manager it should create such a dummy-entry | 20:49 |
| thopiekar | .. | 20:49 |
| thopiekar | Stskeeps: you were faster but I have more details.. | 20:49 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 20:50 |
| zs1 | thopiekar: you mean apt-get install pc-connection? | 20:51 |
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| thopiekar | zs1: yes but use better the application manager.. | 20:51 |
| thopiekar | or however its called in english.. | 20:51 |
| zs1 | thopiekar: Couldn't find package pc-connection | 20:51 |
| thopiekar | apt-get in xterm could break diablo'S apt.. | 20:52 |
| thopiekar | hmm | 20:52 |
| thopiekar | using latest diablo? | 20:52 |
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| zs1 | thopiekar: yes | 20:52 |
| thopiekar | all repos installed from http://www.gronmayer.com/it/ ? | 20:52 |
| zs1 | thopiekar: no | 20:53 |
| thopiekar | then do so.. | 20:53 |
| zs1 | i have only 3 repos | 20:53 |
| thopiekar | ;) | 20:53 |
| thopiekar | these are the basic one.. | 20:53 |
| thopiekar | you would need minimaly diablo-extras or -extras-devel.. | 20:54 |
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| thopiekar | ;) | 20:54 |
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| GeneralAntilles | zs1, I'm assuming you're running the latest Diablo? | 20:55 |
| zs1 | yes i do | 20:56 |
| thopiekar | GeneralAntilles: I already asked that before :) | 20:56 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Is this helpful? http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking | 20:59 |
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| luke-jr | my 4 GB microSD card included a bad partition table :p | 21:02 |
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| zs1 | thopiekar: did you mean maemo-pc-connectivity ? | 21:04 |
| thopiekar | yes | 21:04 |
| thopiekar | :) | 21:04 |
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| Stskeeps | i am really going to hit someone if this theory of mine is true.. | 21:05 |
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| * thopiekar is listening.. | 21:06 | |
| Stskeeps | (read: we have -probably- been able to have modern kernels with or without open source wifi drivers for ages) | 21:06 |
| pupnik_ | see the guy who got usb webcam working on N810? | 21:06 |
| thopiekar | pupnik_: how was his name? | 21:07 |
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| pupnik_ | fergot | 21:09 |
| thopiekar | pupnik_: hmm.. | 21:10 |
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| luke-jr | can I use LVM2 on N810? | 21:10 |
| pupnik_ | gareth porter!!! | 21:10 |
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| thopiekar | pupnik_: are you the one who was looking TV (DVB-T) on his tablet?^^ | 21:11 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hi daperl | 21:11 |
| thopiekar | pupnik_: gareth porter... and his nick?... | 21:12 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: as far as i can see, it has been possible for quite a while to realize umac.ko is just a piece of software, not some special thing that attaches to a lot of kernel functions | 21:12 |
| daperl | hi | 21:12 |
| Stskeeps | which is why poky linux can move umac.ko from 2.6.16 to 2.6.18 | 21:12 |
| pupnik_ | gareth porter on antiwar radio soon! http://kaosradioaustin.org | 21:12 |
| Stskeeps | lo daperl | 21:12 |
| Shadow_M | does vncviewer support proxy | 21:13 |
| Stskeeps | had a good weekend with the son? | 21:13 |
| daperl | yo yo yo | 21:13 |
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| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: which means to support a new kernel, strip the kernel headers and copy them from the dummy umac ko | 21:13 |
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| Stskeeps | and do optional changes to the (open source) cx3110x driver | 21:14 |
| luke-jr | what does Maemo do if an on-boot mount fails? | 21:14 |
| Stskeeps | fstab? it doesnt even try | 21:14 |
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| luke-jr | :o | 21:15 |
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| luke-jr | so how do I get things to mount on boot? | 21:15 |
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| luke-jr | johnx: curiously, fstab lists mmcblk0p1 as /mnt/mmc1 -- maybe related to when the order is screwy | 21:15 |
| thopiekar | Could someone please look whether the package called *streamripper* is available on extras? | 21:16 |
| pupnik_ | gronmayer | 21:20 |
| * timeless looks around | 21:20 | |
| timeless | so, i'm looking for more testing :) | 21:21 |
| timeless | anyone wanna test strings? :) | 21:21 |
| * GeneralAntilles apparently can't post a rebuttal on tabletblog. . . . | 21:22 | |
| Stskeeps | if user = GeneralAntilles: ban? :P | 21:23 |
| timeless | heh | 21:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, I'm trying to login with my gmail account and it keeps complaining that the owner of the blog doesn't allow anonymous comments. | 21:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh well, his readership will just have to continue in their silly ignorance. ;) | 21:23 |
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| RST38h | http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/02/2-19-09dellnetbook.jpg | 21:33 |
| RST38h | Hehehe | 21:33 |
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| luke-jr | what is "pool"? | 21:51 |
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| luke-jr | or rather http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/n/nano/ | 21:53 |
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| luke-jr | the main page suggests it is SDK only :/ | 21:54 |
| luke-jr | any reason I can't use a package from it on the N810? | 21:54 |
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| GeneralAntilles | http://maemo.org/development/tools/ | 22:06 |
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| Corsac | Stskeeps: is it easy to start another desktop environment than hildon on mer/ | 22:17 |
| Corsac | ? | 22:17 |
| Stskeeps | fairly, if you have a n810 | 22:17 |
| Macer | shit. ups still hasn't shown up yet | 22:18 |
| Macer | i really want my goddamn artigo | 22:18 |
| Corsac | Stskeeps: I have | 22:21 |
| Stskeeps | Corsac: look at andrewfblack's lxde guide then | 22:21 |
| Corsac | ok | 22:21 |
| Corsac | on w.m.o? | 22:22 |
| Stskeeps | w.m.o? you on iTT | 22:22 |
| Stskeeps | on | 22:22 |
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| slonopotamus | what image viewer do you recommend instead of default one? it eats all my ram :( | 22:30 |
| qwerty12_N800 | quiver | 22:31 |
| slonopotamus | in extras? | 22:31 |
| qwerty12_N800 | yeah | 22:32 |
| slonopotamus | thanks | 22:32 |
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| luke-jr | so nwo that's I've tried googling it.. how do I get swap to automount? | 22:40 |
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| timelE61i | hEllo world | 23:15 |
| Stskeeps | wello | 23:15 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hi timelE61i | 23:15 |
| * timelE61i added rhapsodyapplet to the l10n pack | 23:15 | |
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| timelE61i | qwerty, so... I need uninstall help | 23:19 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | i can try & help :-) | 23:20 |
| * RST38h yawns and lazily curses SigmaTel | 23:20 | |
| ssvb | Stskeeps: as I see, you are hacking cx3110x driver for 770 now, have you checked these patches: https://garage.maemo.org/pipermail/cx3110x-devel/2008-April/000038.html ? | 23:20 |
| RST38h | Bastards shifted the actual frame buffer address by 1 pixel (2 bytes) | 23:21 |
| timelE61i | basically, i somehow need to save the original files each of my locale packs replaces | 23:21 |
| Stskeeps | ssvb: yup, i have them included | 23:22 |
| Stskeeps | except for 770_performance_improvements, it didn't apply cleanly to 1.2 | 23:22 |
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| timelE61i | if my packages are upgraded, i need to *not* touch the backup | 23:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | apt-get install <Nokia's l10n packages> in the postrm? :P | 23:23 |
| ssvb | Stskeeps: that's bad, is it hard to tweak it? | 23:23 |
| timelE61i | But when my packages are removed, i need to restore the files | 23:23 |
| Stskeeps | ssvb: not sure, but on the other hand i have a sane cx3110x driver that scans properly and so on | 23:24 |
| timelE61i | Gan: i don't think they're available online | 23:24 |
| ssvb | Stskeeps: good wlan performance is nice to have on 770 because USB is slow | 23:24 |
| qwerty12_N800 | timelE61i: use an if -e (or is it -x - cant remember) statement? | 23:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | timelE61i, not in the SSU repo? | 23:24 |
| timelE61i | And i wonder if dpkg would be holding a lock :) | 23:24 |
| * GeneralAntilles was be facetious anyway. | 23:24 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | timelE61i: no, wait. | 23:24 |
| Stskeeps | ssvb: besides that, i realized earlier umac.ko is just a library, you can replace the kernel modinfo structures and adapt it to newer kernels | 23:24 |
| timelE61i | Ing | 23:24 |
| Stskeeps | like poky linux did with 2.6.18 patch | 23:24 |
| Stskeeps | ssvb: so i'm wondering if it means cx3110x can be further adapted to later kernels | 23:25 |
| timelE61i | gan: dunno, you could check | 23:25 |
| Stskeeps | (of course it would be nice to have stlc45xx for 770 but..) | 23:25 |
| timelE61i | We were too lazy to find the password for ssu :) | 23:25 |
| timelE61i | Besides device could be offlne | 23:26 |
| ssvb | Stskeeps: that would be really great if wlan works with newer kernels in some way | 23:26 |
| qwerty12_N800 | timelE61i: apt source ;) | 23:26 |
| Stskeeps | ssvb: i've already moved from 0.8.5 to 1.2 cx3110x, so maybe there is hope | 23:26 |
| timelE61i | ? | 23:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N800 has the password, I'm sure. | 23:26 |
| Stskeeps | i could consider to name my kid if i have one, the SSU password.. | 23:27 |
| ssvb | Stskeeps: anyway, regarding performance, getting true 802.11g speed would be really nice to have, I might try to see what is needed to port the patch to 1.2 | 23:27 |
| luke-jr | any sane way to purge /usr/locale except en_GB, en_US, and ja? | 23:27 |
| ssvb | Stskeeps: though no promises of course | 23:27 |
| Stskeeps | ssvb: alright - it did apply in some spots but failed in others | 23:27 |
| Stskeeps | i got a 770 donated and so far it seems to work with wifi, and doesn't seem to die with .n networks nearby.. | 23:28 |
| timelE61i | luke: there's a locale purge package | 23:28 |
| Stskeeps | (i think.) | 23:28 |
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| luke-jr | timelE61i: does it work in a sane fashon? | 23:28 |
| * timelE61i shrugs | 23:28 | |
| * timelE61i doesn't do that | 23:28 | |
| timelE61i | w/o locales, how could i file amusing bugs? | 23:29 |
| luke-jr | … | 23:29 |
| luke-jr | 21 MB of waste? | 23:29 |
| Stskeeps | until you get a japanese gf | 23:29 |
| timelE61i | Compressed! | 23:29 |
| vcell | timelE61i: you could just keep making people apply your package till you get it right. might mean a marathon coding session though | 23:29 |
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| timelE61i | Vcell: have you applied it lately? | 23:30 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | timelE61i: when dpkg runs a prerm script etc, it runs with a $1 = what it is doing. So if we are upgrading, the script is ran with upgrade etc. so in your script, just have something like [ if $1 = upgrade ]; then etc | 23:30 |
| vcell | im not in -US | 23:30 |
| vcell | and the amount of regular apps i run i wouldnt be able to tell it worked anyway | 23:31 |
| qwerty12_N800 | vcell: they're not bad actually, even I use -US now... | 23:31 |
| vcell | nobody has ported apps to my dialect yet | 23:31 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: that's why I'm keeping ja locale? | 23:32 |
| timelE61i | I just installed a virus on my s60 phone via bt | 23:32 |
| timelE61i | My n810 sent me an sis file ! | 23:32 |
| vcell | "ey up, th' interwebs loading, best get a cuppa" | 23:32 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | vcell: that's en_GB_DODGYNORTH | 23:33 |
| vcell | yeah likely | 23:33 |
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| * vcell splutters | 23:33 | |
| Macer | well.. got my artigo | 23:33 |
| Macer | finally got it to boot heh | 23:34 |
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| timelE61i | vcell: seriously, i'd hope anyone here would prefer my locale over the nokia native | 23:35 |
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| Stskeeps | mmkay | 23:38 |
| Stskeeps | was octave ported to tablets? | 23:38 |
| Stskeeps | because i want it. | 23:38 |
| b-man | hello Stskeeps | 23:38 |
| jaem_afk | good morning! | 23:38 |
| *** jaem_afk is now known as jaem | 23:39 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps: think lardman has some old packages... | 23:39 |
| b-man | jaem_afk: it's afternoon here :P | 23:39 |
| Stskeeps | because it might actually save me from going totally insane with this linear algebra course | 23:39 |
| jaem | b-man: it is here too, but I thought we used UGT? | 23:40 |
| vcell | Stskeeps: http://www.totallycrap.com/videos/videos_college_algebra_has_scarred_this_guy/ | 23:40 |
| * vcell just watched that today | 23:40 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | if you wanna build it yourself (the build deps are a-plenty), make sure to compile it to use the vfp | 23:41 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: i think it might be a reason to use mer.. :P | 23:41 |
| vcell | timelE61i: im ok with the wording, most dialogs go over my head, its less what they say, more that they come up at right times | 23:41 |
| vcell | im used to working on international computers without translation | 23:41 |
| jaem | also xcas - if anyone feels like building it before I get time, I'd be obliged | 23:41 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps: you'll still have to build it yourself (although apt-get build-dep octave3.1 will be easier) | 23:42 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 23:42 |
| timelE61i | what's an intl. computer? | 23:42 |
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| jaem | one that you payed a fortune to get shipped to you | 23:42 |
| jaem | a larger fortune if you used UPS | 23:42 |
| Stskeeps | vcell: yes, i have similar feelings | 23:42 |
| jaem | oh wait... that's my problem | 23:43 |
| vcell | one with software from multiple computers and settings configured for users in different countries | 23:43 |
| vcell | multiple countries | 23:43 |
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| Macer | go artigo go | 23:44 |
| Macer | :) | 23:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, could I use Mer as my build and packaging machine? | 23:44 |
| Macer | with your C7 beastly CPU | 23:44 |
| Macer | haha | 23:44 |
| Macer | this thing is the size of 2 n800 stacked on top of one another lying flat | 23:44 |
| Macer | it's awesome | 23:44 |
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| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: if for maemo, only with scratchbox installed.. if for mer, if it builds on x86, it probably builds in our armel builders too :P | 23:44 |
| timelE61i | Gan: that's what i'm doing | 23:44 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: (occasionally a libc6 dependancy maemo can't satisfy shows up) | 23:45 |
| timelE61i | I'm building my locales in mer-vmdk | 23:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, well, packaging up source packages for the autobuilder? | 23:45 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: yeah, sure | 23:45 |
| timelE61i | And installing on maemo-n8x0 | 23:45 |
| timelE61i | Gan: sure, i do that :) | 23:45 |
| Macer | sts... i should install mer on it! :-D | 23:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm going to have to break down at some point and either fix my Beagle or buy a cheap x86 rig. ;) | 23:46 |
| Macer | GeneralAntilles: get an artigo :) | 23:46 |
| vcell | fix your beagle | 23:46 |
| Macer | c7 ftw | 23:46 |
| jeremiah | Artigo? | 23:46 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: beagle runs mer now too ;P | 23:47 |
| Stskeeps | then again, it did run maemo too | 23:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | vcell, that's been my intention for a while. | 23:47 |
| Macer | something special about now having an intel or amd cpu in this thing | 23:47 |
| vcell | or ill call the ASPCA | 23:47 |
| Macer | it reminds me of the days of the ppc | 23:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | But I fail totally at managing to accomplish it. | 23:47 |
| Macer | :) | 23:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm predicting it's going to end up getting fixed at the Summit. | 23:47 |
| timelE61i | Heh | 23:47 |
| vcell | lol or it will be buried in the backyard | 23:47 |
| Macer | ah yes... "via... the other cpu" | 23:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, I'll let you play with my Newton if you bring a working recovery card. :P | 23:48 |
| Macer | it's odd that intel and amd are working so hard on their low power stuff | 23:48 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: so you don't even get serial output? | 23:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, nah, I get serial output. | 23:48 |
| Stskeeps | just no uboot prompt? | 23:48 |
| Macer | as if out the blue they've decided there might be money to be made from extremely compact low power cpu design | 23:48 |
| vcell | macer, not odd - required | 23:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Right | 23:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | and I only managed to get it to use a recovery card once. | 23:48 |
| Macer | vcell: i suppose... via and arm are way ahead of the giants | 23:49 |
| Stskeeps | and proceeded to mess it up again? ;) | 23:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Macer, ARM is a giant. ;) | 23:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, I guess. | 23:49 |
| Macer | true | 23:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, I don't much care for the instructions on their wiki. | 23:49 |
| * vcell this big *holds out his arms* | 23:49 | |
| Macer | does arm even produce their own cpus though? | 23:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's an array of uboot and xloader binaries but I'm not sure which ones to use for what. | 23:49 |
| Macer | don't they just lic the tech and let their customers do it? | 23:50 |
| vcell | bbl, coughing fit | 23:50 |
| mikkov_ | I would have uploaded octave to extras but the thing doesn't build for armel with this crappy toolkit | 23:52 |
| Macer | nice to see it's booting from the usb cdrom :) | 23:52 |
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| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: heh, usb recovery looks freaky | 23:52 |
| Macer | progress heh.. damnit.. have to hook up this network cable .. shti | 23:52 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: but regarding uboot binaries there are referred some | 23:53 |
| * timelE61i slip | 23:53 | |
| Macer | anybody here use twin before? | 23:53 |
| * timelE61i slips | 23:53 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | mikkov_: i'd like to see the cs2008 toolchain in the autobuilder :>, it's the only way i can get aircrack-ng built in my sbox | 23:53 |
| Macer | kind of like... a txt based window manger .. not X but somethig you could ssh to and use with moving windows etc.. | 23:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, I think I need to get another SD card. | 23:53 |
| Stskeeps | timelE61i: ice and mobile phone chatting while walking doesn't go together | 23:53 |
| Macer | seems pretty good | 23:53 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: plausible.. my beagle seemed to eat mine | 23:53 |
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| timelE61i | ... | 23:54 |
| timelE61i | More like walking and ice don't go together | 23:55 |
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| GeneralAntilles | timelE61i, watch the sidewalk, not your phone. :P | 23:55 |
| Stskeeps | timelE61i: i am starting to get some rather weird mental images of your rl behaviour when you tell some of your experiences with walk-while-chatting :P | 23:56 |
| timelE61i | gan: right call, but too late | 23:56 |
| timelE61i | I'm home | 23:56 |
| jaem | macer: no, ARM doesn't manufacture anything | 23:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | jaem, except for their prototypes, I guess. | 23:56 |
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| jaem | GA, I'd presume they still get someone else to fab those... | 23:58 |
| RST38h | exctly | 23:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, probably right. Didn't IBM put together the 32nm prototype? | 23:59 |
| RST38h | ARM has no fabs, afaik | 23:59 |
| * timelE61i boggles | 23:59 | |
| jaem | hence "fabless semi" | 23:59 |
| timelE61i | i just woke up my laptop and outlook said it's connection was restored | 23:59 |
| jaem | GA: I usually put together ASICS for myself... with tweezers and a magnifying glass | 23:59 |
| jaem | ;) | 23:59 |
| timelE61i | But it needs a vpn, and my wifi wasn't even established | 23:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | jaem, how do you do that? "Very carefully." :P | 23:59 |
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