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| qwerty12_N800 | RST38h: odd. uiq's gone so I guess it makes sense. I know that symbian foma's been used on the japanese phones... but i've always wanted a s60 se phone... lets see how this turns out | 00:00 |
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| Stskeeps | heh, next up, Sony-Ericsson bought by Nokia :p | 00:01 |
| RST38h | qwerty: I still suspect it is using WinMo, not S60 | 00:01 |
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| Stskeeps | WinMo with a shiny shell | 00:02 |
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| Stskeeps | that is really the norm these days isn't it? | 00:02 |
| qwerty12_N800 | it still looks a bit like uiq's default font | 00:02 |
| * qwerty12_N800 never thought he'd be seeing the day where lack of buttons is apparently a feature | 00:04 | |
| Stskeeps | they should really employ those things where you can add physical buttons to the screen by putting them on top of the screen | 00:04 |
| Stskeeps | add a d-pad, place here. | 00:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 00:05 |
| Stskeeps | think of it though, - general purpose tablet devices | 00:05 |
| Stskeeps | which can be extended with physical elements | 00:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Then Stskeeps can mack LCARS printouts to go behind them http://www.chproducts.com/retail/mfp.html | 00:06 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: yes, that is what i was thinking of | 00:07 |
| Stskeeps | but my idea was to have it directly on display :P | 00:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | <3 CH Products | 00:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Wow | 00:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | 2TB hard drives | 00:07 |
| * GeneralAntilles missed that one. | 00:07 | |
| Stskeeps | i'd rather have a raidz2 with smaller drives instead of loosing 2tb at a time. | 00:08 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, hehe, yeah, I'm thinking like that too. | 00:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | I recall jumping for joy over a 75MB hard drive. | 00:09 |
| Stskeeps | mm, i went from 20mb to 400mb | 00:09 |
| Stskeeps | i was amazed | 00:09 |
| Stskeeps | then again, i found windows 1.0 fascinating at some point | 00:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's a bit scary to think how far tech has come. | 00:10 |
| Stskeeps | on the other hand, it is fascinating to listen to my dads stories of early tech in .dk | 00:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | I like my dad's stories of rifling through garbage cans to get discarded punchcards to use as templates for assignments. | 00:12 |
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| Stskeeps | hehe | 00:13 |
| fireun | not gonna find many discarded usb flash drives in the trash these days | 00:14 |
| fireun | unless you're at los alamos of course (; | 00:14 |
| fireun | or maybe wallstreet | 00:14 |
| fireun | maybe ebay is the modern equiv | 00:15 |
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| * RST38h once read about some security researcher (sic) spreading viruses on "discarded" usb flash drives | 00:27 | |
| RST38h | just to see how many people will snuff 'em | 00:28 |
| befr0d_ | RST38h, ati85 ftw =) | 00:29 |
| Proteous | RST38h: I've read about that, funny stuff | 00:38 |
| Proteous | some of the sandisk cruser drives have a virtual CDrom on them that you can hack so that on windows it will autorun code when you insert it | 00:39 |
| Proteous | the researchers I was reading about had to rely on putting inticing files on the flash drive in hopes that people would run them | 00:39 |
| qwerty12_N800 | gonzor payload... good times i had at school... | 00:39 |
| Proteous | heh | 00:39 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: happen to know where HAL picks up the info if its a RX-34 and all that jazz? | 00:40 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps: no but I can flnd out | 00:40 |
| Stskeeps | k | 00:41 |
| Stskeeps | mxr? :P | 00:41 |
| qwerty12_N800 | no, good ol investigation of the files in my tablet :) | 00:42 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 00:42 |
| Stskeeps | i just realized the reason the HAL rule didn't match was .. because it had no hw to match with | 00:42 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps: at a guess, somewhere, it reads /proc/cpuinfo & /proc/component_version | 00:46 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: yeah, HAL .. | 01:09 |
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| lcuk | academic interest, i solved the flickering. http://pastebin.ca/1338469 | 02:03 |
| * lcuk removes 100s of lines of debug | 02:04 | |
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| slonopotamus | morning | 07:11 |
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| befr0d_ | hi | 07:18 |
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| slonopotamus | oh my. is there any tool to find unused includes in C programs? | 07:56 |
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| slonopotamus | i was fingting with cx3110x-module that wanted to include a file that i didn't have. and guess what? it doesn't need it. | 07:57 |
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| StsN801 | heh, danish translation of facebook fail.. button on another persons page saying 'slå op', which means 'break up' in context of a person or relationship.. or 'look up', which is what they probably meant | 10:10 |
| * X-Fade is back | 10:12 | |
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| StsN801 | hehe, hope you had a good week off:) | 10:14 |
| X-Fade | Oh, yes. Plenty of snow ;) | 10:15 |
| StsN801 | similar here.. then again, shoveling snow is better for your mental health than system administration | 10:16 |
| X-Fade | Well, I was skiing, so that is the more pleasant way of dealing with snow :) | 10:16 |
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| StsN801 | hehe, indeed | 10:17 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:48 |
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| Stskeeps | morning Jaffa | 10:49 |
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| Stskeeps | i seriously wonder what the heck caused ubuntu to drop 30mb in compressed size | 10:52 |
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| Macer | awesome | 10:56 |
| Stskeeps | mm? | 10:57 |
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| Macer | just finished making a new dns and shell box | 10:57 |
| Macer | well.. dns and shell VMs ;) | 10:57 |
| Meiz_n810 | Stskeeps: 0.8 today? | 10:58 |
| Meiz_n810 | you can ssh to my tablet if needed | 10:58 |
| Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: yes, want an image to dl while you're at school? (not snowed in i presume?) | 10:58 |
| Stskeeps | well, that or apt-get dist-upgrade | 10:58 |
| Stskeeps | i found out what caused it not to autodetect, yesterday, so | 10:59 |
| Meiz_n810 | yes, gimme a new image | 10:59 |
| Meiz_n810 | :) | 10:59 |
| Stskeeps | k | 10:59 |
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| Stskeeps | this image just came out of the oven so i am testing it right now too | 11:00 |
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| Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: quiver looks -nice- | 11:04 |
| Stskeeps | who made that_ | 11:04 |
| Meiz_n810 | Stskeeps: i like it too, no idea who made it | 11:05 |
| qwerty12_N800 | it's closed source :/ | 11:05 |
| andre__ | Stskeeps, ubuntu size drop - which version? | 11:05 |
| Stskeeps | andre__: jaunty | 11:05 |
| Stskeeps | well, i noticed our images suddenly dropped 30mb in compressed size | 11:06 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Maybe artwork or some documentation? | 11:06 |
| Stskeeps | possible | 11:06 |
| timeless | hello world | 11:06 |
| Stskeeps | or they removed some insane dependancy | 11:06 |
| timeless | x-fade? | 11:06 |
| timeless | i'm looking for string help | 11:06 |
| andre__ | i know that we removed lots of unused images cruft from the evolution user docs e.g. :) | 11:06 |
| X-Fade | timeless: here.. | 11:06 |
| Stskeeps | like, let's say, libgweather for network manager | 11:06 |
| timeless | open browser settings, second tab | 11:06 |
| luke-jr | how is the 3D performance on N810? | 11:07 |
| timeless | there's an option which basically means "if you uncheck this, most pages you try to load will give you a useless error message" | 11:07 |
| RST38h | Any news from MWC? | 11:07 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: software rendering. | 11:07 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: don't think it's just yet | 11:07 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: yeah, I know that.. but how is it? :x | 11:07 |
| RST38h | Sts: http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/16/live-from-nokias-mwc-2009-press-conference/ | 11:07 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Connection tab? | 11:07 |
| timeless | yep | 11:08 |
| X-Fade | timeless: 3 options: Homepage addres, Use default homepage and enable automatic redirection. | 11:08 |
| timeless | x-fade: we're going to try | 11:08 |
| timeless | "Enable Web Redirects\n(Disabling will break most websites)" | 11:09 |
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| X-Fade | Ah ;) | 11:09 |
| * Stskeeps tries to boot 0.8 | 11:09 | |
| timeless | x-fade: i've made a new forjx if you want to try :) | 11:10 |
| * Stskeeps wonders why rsa key generation is so much slower than dsa key generation | 11:11 | |
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| X-Fade | timeless: Maybe later, I'm trying to plow through a one week email backlog ;) | 11:11 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: http://events.nokia.com/mwc/home.htm | 11:13 |
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| Stskeeps | hardware time | 11:16 |
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| jeremiah | Good Morning all. :) | 11:17 |
| Stskeeps | morning, first day at work ;) | 11:19 |
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| RST38h | Sts: ! Does not load though | 11:20 |
| RST38h | moo wazd | 11:20 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: watching though | 11:20 |
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| Proteous | me tooo | 11:20 |
| jeremiah | Stskeeps: Exactly. :) | 11:21 |
| Proteous | booorrinnngggg | 11:21 |
| wazd | hohoho) | 11:21 |
| * RST38h forgot to mention the so called "flash video" as an entry in the list of his hate subjects | 11:21 | |
| wazd | Christmas time! | 11:21 |
| wazd | http://events.nokia.com/mwc/home.htm | 11:21 |
| Proteous | stop talking about lotas notes | 11:21 |
| Proteous | lotus | 11:21 |
| RST38h | Sts: Anything new? | 11:21 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: not yet | 11:21 |
| Proteous | not yet | 11:21 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: it is even snowing outside | 11:21 |
| Proteous | *snore* | 11:21 |
| * Jaffa 's not holding his breath | 11:22 | |
| RST38h | Ok, Engadget has got the plain text log | 11:22 |
| Proteous | good, you'd have passed out by now | 11:22 |
| Proteous | new phone | 11:25 |
| wazd | nice | 11:25 |
| wazd | E55 | 11:25 |
| Proteous | seems we are moving back to T9... | 11:26 |
| Proteous | the broken english is killing me | 11:26 |
| wazd | wht, full qwerty :) | 11:26 |
| Stskeeps | a month of standby time? | 11:26 |
| Stskeeps | wtf | 11:26 |
| Stskeeps | is it fuel cell powered? :P | 11:26 |
| wazd | nice phone | 11:27 |
| timeless | proteous: what broken English? | 11:27 |
| RST38h | bleah | 11:27 |
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| Stskeeps | timeless: en_FI? ;) | 11:27 |
| RST38h | half-a-keyboard, quarter-a-screen | 11:27 |
| Proteous | lol | 11:27 |
| timeless | sts: that's what i think when i see broken English | 11:28 |
| timeless | just wondering if that's what he meant | 11:28 |
| wazd | ok, tablet's time)) | 11:28 |
| Stskeeps | en_DA is worse | 11:28 |
| timeless | is that Danish English? | 11:28 |
| wazd | hah))\ | 11:28 |
| Stskeeps | hah, messing up product numbers | 11:28 |
| timeless | ? | 11:28 |
| wazd | I always said that nokia n*** system is stupid) | 11:29 |
| Stskeeps | he went n95->n97,e75 | 11:29 |
| Proteous | I hate phones with full keyboards and tiny ass screens | 11:29 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: yes, horrible accented danish english | 11:29 |
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| wazd | he's pretty nervous :) | 11:29 |
| * RST38h likes E75, but has said so before | 11:29 | |
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| timeless | um | 11:30 |
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| timeless | don't google images for e75 | 11:30 |
| timeless | at least, not at work | 11:30 |
| Proteous | lol | 11:30 |
| qwerty12 | haha | 11:30 |
| Proteous | better then the E71? | 11:31 |
| RST38h | yes | 11:31 |
| RST38h | E71 has got tiny little keys | 11:31 |
| * timeless likes the e61i | 11:31 | |
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| * Proteous likes the n97 | 11:31 | |
| Stskeeps | prices aren't that bad so far | 11:32 |
| Proteous | the dollars to euros ratio sucks nowdays | 11:32 |
| Proteous | so they look pretty expensive to me :) | 11:32 |
| RST38h | didn't it for the last n years? | 11:32 |
| Proteous | heh | 11:32 |
| Stskeeps | no, not ovi :( | 11:32 |
| Proteous | nice tie | 11:33 |
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| RST38h | Is "ovi" a finnish word for "enema"? | 11:33 |
| wazd | ok, boring time) | 11:33 |
| timeless | Door[k] | 11:33 |
| Proteous | heh | 11:33 |
| RST38h | 375 euros for E75 | 11:33 |
| RST38h | for this price, they should have at least installed a bigger screen | 11:33 |
| aquatix | RST38h: "ovi" isn't plural voor "egg" or something? | 11:34 |
| aquatix | hm, what will the N97 be? | 11:35 |
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| RST38h | aquatix: that is Latin, I think | 11:35 |
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| aquatix | RST38h: that was my hunch | 11:36 |
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| Proteous | ass applications have gone mainstream | 11:37 |
| Proteous | who knew? | 11:37 |
| RST38h | aquatix: it is singular too, plural will be something like "ovae" | 11:37 |
| Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: progress on dl? | 11:37 |
| wazd | aaaah, stop the lecture please :( | 11:38 |
| * RST38h wonders what happens when the "services" bubble pops | 11:38 | |
| Proteous | *PAUSE FOR NO APPLAUSE | 11:38 |
| RST38h | Poor Nokia will take a huge hit | 11:38 |
| Stskeeps | sometimes i wonder how finns can even sell stuff.. not much passion in the voice at all | 11:38 |
| Stskeeps | (yes, im biased, dated a finnish girl for some years :P) | 11:39 |
| Proteous | heh | 11:39 |
| RST38h | wazd: On the other hand, maybe MTS can somehow sell them their logo, at heavy discount =) | 11:39 |
| wazd | RST38h: xD\ | 11:39 |
| Proteous | WE ARE SO INOVATIVE!! WE ARE TOTALY NOT BEHIND BOTH APPLE AND ANDROID! | 11:39 |
| Proteous | OUR STORE IS TOTALY DIFFERNT | 11:39 |
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| wazd | Proteous: NOWAI?! DID HE SAID THAT?!!1 | 11:40 |
| * Jaffa just can't understand device/marque-specific services like Ovi trying to be social. | 11:40 | |
| Proteous | social is the way to go for everything | 11:40 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: it is the buzzword. they have to follow the buzzwords. | 11:40 |
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| Proteous | even my breakfast cereal is socal nowdays | 11:40 |
| Proteous | so are my pants | 11:40 |
| RST38h | As I said, when this crap pops, they will be up for a rude awakening | 11:41 |
| Jaffa | Device-tie in doesn't work. I'm not going to choose my friends based on the device they have. | 11:41 |
| Meiz__n810 | Stskeeps: what was the trick needed for Fn? | 11:41 |
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| Stskeeps | Meiz__n810: oh boy. it doesn't detect? | 11:41 |
| jeremiah | Actually I think there is some room for innovation and growth around mobile phone social apps. | 11:41 |
| jeremiah | Could be interesting. | 11:41 |
| Stskeeps | Meiz__n810: (you in mer 0.8 image now?) | 11:41 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: How's Mer on beagle running nowadays? | 11:41 |
| Meiz__n810 | Stskeeps: yes, Fn didn't work automatically | 11:41 |
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| Stskeeps | Meiz__n810: excuse my french, but, fuck. try setxkbmap -model nokiarx44 -layout fisenoda | 11:42 |
| Meiz__n810 | ookay | 11:42 |
| Stskeeps | X-Fade: boots and shows on screen. I dont have a powered usb hub so i cannot test input devices | 11:42 |
| Stskeeps | but should be easily bootable | 11:42 |
| Stskeeps | X-Fade: 0.8 will have beagleboard release too | 11:42 |
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| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Nice. | 11:43 |
| Stskeeps | Meiz__n810: works with fn now? | 11:44 |
| RST38h | "The service can recommend the best of where you are." So it's recommending Spanish podcasts, Spanish lessons, and Lonely Planet content based on the phone's presence in Barcelona." | 11:45 |
| RST38h | Are we all supposed to be impressed or what? | 11:45 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: it is a lot more difficult to impress computer scientists who have seen this stuff in research labs for years.. | 11:47 |
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| glass | Stskeeps: crappy cs:ists are very easy to impress though because they don't see outsides of their lab.. | 11:47 |
| Stskeeps | glass: yes, of course | 11:47 |
| Proteous | you don't have to be a research scientist to find it boring | 11:47 |
| RST38h | Sts: What if I want a Tiger lillies album while in Barcelona? | 11:48 |
| RST38h | Sts: Or an obscure book? | 11:48 |
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| Proteous | maybe the figure if they keep telling us that this is the next generation it will actualy be true | 11:48 |
| RST38h | Sts: Can it guess that? | 11:48 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: nop, and it is probably meant to be an assistant, not a wizard | 11:48 |
| RST38h | Sts: Stupid assistants are fired. | 11:48 |
| wazd | ok, no tablet | 11:49 |
| Stskeeps | then again, last.fm does it quite nicely | 11:49 |
| RST38h | Sts: BTW, stupid wizards are burned at a stake | 11:49 |
| Proteous | "She turned me into a newt!" | 11:49 |
| Meiz_n810 | Stskeeps: works now, after that command | 11:49 |
| Proteous | "A newt?" | 11:49 |
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| Proteous | "Well, I got better" | 11:49 |
| Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: lovely. lshal me | 11:49 |
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| Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: otherwise, how does it work? | 11:58 |
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| wazd | boring( | 12:01 |
| Stskeeps | yup | 12:01 |
| wazd | let's wait for tommorow's Olli-Pekka Kallasvuo keynote | 12:02 |
| oli | morning :) | 12:02 |
| wazd | hello) | 12:02 |
| RST38h | wazd: Are they gonna announce more stuff? | 12:03 |
| RST38h | Mmmm | 12:03 |
| Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: i think i'm going to verify that VMDK works and say that this image is the 0.8 - Fn ability is reachable and we can provide it as an update | 12:03 |
| Stskeeps | since the HAL information is already a package | 12:03 |
| Meiz_n810 | Stskeeps: is it ok, if i lshal later? i'm on maemo now. | 12:03 |
| Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: yes, it's fine | 12:04 |
| wazd | RST38h: if they won't announce new tablet on MWC it would be epic fail | 12:04 |
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| Stskeeps | i kinda think n97 is the new tablet, but that is me.. | 12:05 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: it's omap2 | 12:05 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: I doubt :) | 12:05 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, it's also s60, fremantle would kinda be a waste then... | 12:05 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: well, think of it environmentally, able to put both firmwares on.. | 12:06 |
| Stskeeps | .. or something | 12:06 |
| * Stskeeps goes back to testing mer | 12:06 | |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, a device shipped with a locked down system of sorts and with a open system? | 12:06 |
| qwerty12 | The two don't really go together | 12:06 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: well, if you can boot two different kinds of firmware images? :P | 12:07 |
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| Stskeeps | morning, lcuk | 12:08 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, that's what I'm saying though, I don't think that's going to happen due to symbian being locked down. It's odd to ship a locked device but say ok then, you can put maemo on it and have it open | 12:08 |
| RST38h | wazd: Not an epic fail of course, but a bad sign | 12:08 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: maybe | 12:09 |
| lcuk | hey Stskeeps good mornin | 12:09 |
| RST38h | wazd: As I said yesterday (and got GeneralAntilles angry), as far as customers are concerned, 5800/N97 *are* the next tablets | 12:09 |
| lcuk | qwerty12, but but but but didnt nokia pay off their partners so they COULD open it up | 12:09 |
| RST38h | wazd: And NITs are more like a semiexperimental product, akin to the first PDAs | 12:10 |
| lcuk | they are a hardware platform more akin to the beagleboards.. | 12:10 |
| qwerty12 | lcuk, that's not for a few years and signing still exists on the 5800 and N97 is gonna run the same version of s60 | 12:10 |
| lcuk | waiting for the right software to be sat on them :) | 12:10 |
| lcuk | fair enough | 12:11 |
| RST38h | Why is everybody so concerned about signing? | 12:11 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h, it says a lot about the openness | 12:11 |
| RST38h | Do you know that you can SELF-SIGN S60 apps and get pretty much all the features you need? | 12:11 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: ability to repurpose my tablets if need be | 12:11 |
| lcuk | signing is a legit way to do QA in a distributed environment | 12:11 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h, lemme know when you can self sign your way to AllFiles permission | 12:12 |
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| lcuk | qwerty12, you know FAR too much about everything nokia, are you a secret adaptive technodrone? | 12:13 |
| lcuk | the AI for the next gen system? :D | 12:13 |
| lcuk | (note, i said AI like ali g) | 12:13 |
| qwerty12 | lcuk, nope, I just used to be on the nokia warez sites a lot :) | 12:14 |
| lcuk | on'tday entionmay ethay arezway itessay | 12:15 |
| RST38h | qwerty: But why do you need allfiles? | 12:15 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Your application needs anything from C:\bin or what? | 12:15 |
| lcuk | to be able to replace the sign checking app with a bare stump | 12:16 |
| lcuk | or to include your own wardialer | 12:16 |
| RST38h | how useful is this for a normal user? | 12:16 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h, it's nice to be able to browse files from C:\system to change things like op logo like I could do in symbian 6.1 | 12:16 |
| lcuk | did qwerty EVER assert he was a normal user? | 12:16 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h, like I say, it says a lot about the openness | 12:17 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Well, I have been talking about S60 from the point of view of a normal user or a regular app developer | 12:17 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Self signing is sufficient for 99% of these | 12:17 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h, go on any warez site and see the amount of n00bs trying to get help to sign x-plore so they can get access to the full filesystem | 12:17 |
| lcuk | i tend to agree | 12:17 |
| lcuk | RST38h, its like 99% would be ok with html dev and a bit of python scripting | 12:18 |
| lcuk | how well would your emulator work on iphone by the way.. ? | 12:18 |
| RST38h | lcuk: not really, you can do lots of native stuff with self signed | 12:18 |
| RST38h | lcuk: No idea, have never been interested in iphone | 12:19 |
| lcuk | i understand that, but thats the effect | 12:19 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Do notice that iPhone restrictions have nothing to do with S60 restrictions | 12:19 |
| RST38h | lcuk: very, VERY different | 12:19 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Well, do not go to warez sites | 12:19 |
| lcuk | no, but its restrictions all the same. neither of you can get at the core lowest level to code how you want | 12:19 |
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| RST38h | qwerty: You steal stuff -> you suffer. | 12:19 |
| lcuk | you hit a barrier | 12:19 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I can with S60 | 12:20 |
| RST38h | lcuk: No problem at all | 12:20 |
| Stskeeps | Symbian is much about the DRM isn't it_ | 12:20 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h, too late for that :>, but even tons of people who don't know shit want allfiles (dunno if they want it for fun) | 12:20 |
| Stskeeps | which is probably why it is difficult to do AllFiles | 12:20 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Can even get screen buffer address and screw with it however I want | 12:20 |
| lcuk | cool, you and lots may be ok, but there are some who resent the barrier | 12:20 |
| RST38h | qwerty: If you do not know shit, you do not need allfiles | 12:20 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Maybe you *think* you need it because someone told you, but you really don't | 12:21 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Groundless resentment is not a valid argument. | 12:21 |
| lcuk | why isnt it? its what real people out there do | 12:21 |
| RST38h | Sts: I have yet to meet DRM in Symbian =) | 12:21 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Yes, it is what 1% of S60 users do | 12:22 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Remaining 99% do not care | 12:22 |
| qwerty12 | *I* need it because I hack all my phones, but I can't claim symbian to be open when you have to beg symbiansigned for a cert to sign your shit | 12:22 |
| lcuk | agreed entirely | 12:22 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: OLPC isn't entirely open either, heh | 12:22 |
| lcuk | qwerty12, do you have to present your shit in a little clear plastic bag? or do you just take a photo of it in the bowl? | 12:22 |
| RST38h | qwerty: Now, their "openness" claims are somewhat overblown :) | 12:22 |
| RST38h | But for all practical purposes, they are open enough | 12:23 |
| lcuk | RST38h, just like in linux a "user" without root permissions can do lots, but there are some situations where root is wanted, especially in a home machine | 12:23 |
| RST38h | lcuk: See, there are people who drill their skulls and people who hang themselves from huge metal hooks | 12:24 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: It is called "diversity" | 12:24 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Nobody arrests them or anything, but nobody cares about them either | 12:24 |
| lcuk | RST38h, yeah, trepanation sounds relaxing actually | 12:24 |
| RST38h | lcuk: So, when I hear another "OSS advocate" ramble about evil Symbian signing process, I just idly wonder if he knows what he is talking about | 12:25 |
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| RST38h | There is a well defined set of apps you can't do due to Symbian signing and it is very small and eclectic | 12:26 |
| lcuk | i used to as well, but i honestly thought it had already changed, is signing going to go away on existing devices once they open it up, or is this opening up not backwards compatible | 12:26 |
| qwerty12 | But that "1%" is still there, laying claim to the fact that it isn't open | 12:26 |
| RST38h | Pretty much only realy useful thing you can't do is the file type recognizers, due to an architectural mistake in Symbian | 12:26 |
| RST38h | qwerty: As I said, skull drillers are also here, but who gives a fuck? | 12:27 |
| qwerty12 | Fuck them, I'm talking about symbian | 12:27 |
| RST38h | IBM made a 32nm Cortex, hehe | 12:27 |
| lcuk | thats like the wookie defense | 12:27 |
| wazd | http://www.htc.com/www/ | 12:36 |
| wazd | htc updated the site too early)) | 12:37 |
| timeless | timeless.justdave.net/maemo/setalarm.png | 12:37 |
| timeless | anyone have thoughts about the 'Select' button? | 12:37 |
| X-Fade | timeless: 'Set alarm' :) | 12:41 |
| X-Fade | Hmm what is that select used for anyway? | 12:41 |
| X-Fade | Shouldn't that be OK and Cancel? | 12:41 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: it's "Browse" the the "Sound" box isn't it? | 12:42 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: I guess so, very confusing as the sound thing is a select box already? | 12:43 |
| timeless | right | 12:44 |
| timeless | is 'choose' better? | 12:44 |
| timeless | remember i'm testing Diablo apps w/ Fremantle hildon in VMWare using my strings | 12:44 |
| timeless | (running Mer of course) | 12:45 |
| timeless | do i need 'Custom sound' ? | 12:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol . . . everybody gets hyped up over an announcement we pretty much knew wasn't coming here then is disappointed and worried. | 12:50 |
| timeless | ? | 12:50 |
| timeless | what's this? | 12:50 |
| timeless | btw, why don't i have a map in my clock? | 12:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless, can you fix the "updating repositories" string in h-a-m? | 12:51 |
| timeless | i have /usr/share/icons/hicolor/scalable/hildon/qgn_indi_worldmap.jpg | 12:51 |
| timeless | gan: i believe so, what should it say? | 12:51 |
| qwerty12 | timeless, tried gtk-update-icon-cache -f /usr/share/icons/hicolor ? | 12:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Now it says "Checking for updates; please wait" | 12:51 |
| qwerty12 | Actually, dunno if the map image is cached | 12:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | At the very least, "please wait" should be dropped | 12:52 |
| timeless | ok | 12:52 |
| timeless | yeah, definitely my string | 12:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | "Updating application catalog..." was what I was thinking | 12:52 |
| timeless | are you sure it's only used in one place? | 12:52 |
| timeless | (source is open, you can check) | 12:52 |
| timeless | hildon-application-manager-l10n-enus1/po/en_US.po:msgstr "Checking for updates; please wait" | 12:52 |
| timeless | hildon-application-manager-l10n-enus1/po/en_US.po:msgstr "Preparing to install; please wait" | 12:52 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I mean, we've got a dialog with a progress bar | 12:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | can't we assume we're waiting? | 12:53 |
| timeless | is 'application catalog' the user's catalog? | 12:53 |
| timeless | as opposed to the catalogs the user told the app about? | 12:53 |
| timeless | msgstr "Updating application catalog" | 12:54 |
| timeless | msgstr "Preparing to install" | 12:54 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Application catalog is what's used in the menu. | 12:56 |
| timeless | qwerty: tried, no good | 12:56 |
| qwerty12 | odd | 12:56 |
| timeless | gan: ok, i've changed them locally, repacking | 12:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | It'd be nice if we could have it display what catalog it's updating. | 12:57 |
| timeless | file a bug | 12:57 |
| timeless | but keep in mind that some versions of apt clients do multiple concurrently | 12:57 |
| timeless | that's well beyond my powers | 12:57 |
| timeless | odd | 12:58 |
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| timeless | ham can't reach my internal repo | 12:58 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, if I get powerlaunch running in Mer, would it be a help? I need a way to reboot without taking my battery out (sudo reboot takes too long for me - yes, I'm lazy) | 12:58 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: yes, of course | 12:58 |
| Stskeeps | even minimal functionality | 12:59 |
| jeremiah | Hello Niels! | 13:00 |
| X-Fade | Our new debmaster speaks :) | 13:00 |
| timeless | qwerty/et al | 13:00 |
| timeless | wait, debmaster, where? | 13:00 |
| timeless | i was just going to ask for someone to explain diversions | 13:00 |
| jeremiah | Hi X-Fade, Have seen your name around the wiki and stuff. :) | 13:00 |
| timeless | how do ithey work? :) | 13:00 |
| jeremiah | timeless: Can't you start with easier questions? | 13:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, how was vacation? | 13:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, the site managed not to fall to pieces while you were out. ;) | 13:01 |
| timeless | jeremiah: when someone installs my package, they get better strings | 13:01 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Lots of snow and no broken bones.. | 13:01 |
| timeless | when they uninstall them, they have no strings | 13:01 |
| timeless | why? :) | 13:01 |
| timeless | (easier question, presumably the same answer) | 13:01 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: I monitored it every once in a while, but did no actual work ;) | 13:01 |
| jeremiah | timeless: When you say strings - can you be more specific? | 13:01 |
| jeremiah | What programming language for example? | 13:02 |
| timeless | jeremiah: do you have diablo-extras enabled for your device? | 13:02 |
| timeless | and have you backed it up recently? | 13:02 |
| timeless | err diablo extras-devel | 13:02 |
| timeless | sorry :) | 13:02 |
| jeremiah | timeless: Heh, no not yet. I will be working on an environment today. | 13:02 |
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| jeremiah | But describe the issue and I will try to reporduce it. | 13:03 |
| timeless | um, do you have any devices? :) | 13:04 |
| timeless | open application manager | 13:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/source/l/language-support-translations-enus1/ | 13:04 |
| timeless | click the app title to open the app menu | 13:04 |
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| timeless | gan: i doubt that'll do anything useful | 13:05 |
| timeless | remember ham won't do dependencies for a .deb | 13:05 |
| * timeless kicks ham in the pork | 13:05 | |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless, right, but we at least know what we're talking about now. ;) | 13:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd rather it didn't resolve .deb dependencies | 13:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | We don't want to encourage people to toss around random .debs. | 13:05 |
| timeless | anyway, in the menu, click tools>application catalog(ue) | 13:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Packages should be distributed through repositories. | 13:05 |
| jeremiah | timeless: How do you know this is happening in the packaging process? (Not to say it is not.) | 13:06 |
| timeless | if you're using en-GB, you're going to eventually (soon) need to switch to en-US (we'll talk that through later, but tell me now) | 13:06 |
| timeless | i wrote the debs? :) | 13:06 |
| jeremiah | okay, good reason . . . | 13:06 |
| timeless | in catalogs you probably will see a diablo extras repo | 13:07 |
| timeless | it's probably disabled | 13:07 |
| timeless | since i'm lazy, we'll hijack it, click it, click edit | 13:07 |
| timeless | in the address, change extras to extras-devel | 13:07 |
| timeless | and uncheck the disabled button | 13:07 |
| timeless | now you'll want to close the dialog chain | 13:07 |
| timeless | it should update your catalog | 13:08 |
| qwerty12 | Or use the install here: https://garage.maemo.org/extras-assistant/install/extras-devel.install | 13:08 |
| timeless | oh sure, make life easy for him | 13:08 |
| * timeless sighs | 13:08 | |
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| timeless | where i came from, we only had a pen and paper | 13:08 |
| qwerty12 | :P | 13:08 |
| timeless | we couldn't even erase :) | 13:08 |
| jeremiah | heh | 13:09 |
| timeless | anyway, however you install extras-devel, is up to you | 13:09 |
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| timeless | you could use /etc/apt/sources.list[.d/whatever] for all i care | 13:09 |
| timeless | i'm just pretending i don't know anything about *garage and have something like a device in front of me | 13:09 |
| timeless | (i really know very little about garage) | 13:10 |
| jeremiah | timeless: When you say "better" what do you mean? Easier to read? | 13:10 |
| timeless | jeremiah: i'll let someone else describe that | 13:10 |
| timeless | anyway, from here, in ham, select 'browse installable applications' | 13:10 |
| timeless | i think that's whatit's called | 13:10 |
| timeless | then click the binoculars | 13:10 |
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| timeless | enter 'US English' and click ok | 13:11 |
| timeless | you should get one result | 13:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | So, NVIDIA is shipping a $99 Tegra-based (600, so, ARM11) MID sometime in 2010? | 13:11 |
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| timeless | gan: interesting | 13:11 |
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| timeless | jeremiah: at this point, you can browse through the tabs, find out that i'm the author, read the description, perhaps read the dependencies | 13:12 |
| timeless | (although you need red pill mode iirc to read dependencies, if you don't know about red pill mode, i'm sure a bot will explain it) | 13:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | The price is optimistic, I think, but the hardware is going to be way behind the curve by that point. | 13:12 |
| timeless | gan: soudns good | 13:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | jeremiah, "better" meaning more like proper English and less like gibberish. | 13:12 |
| timeless | so it should ship overbudget and underpower | 13:12 |
| jeremiah | aha | 13:13 |
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| timeless | gan: you can grab a new .zip now :) | 13:13 |
| timeless | jeremiah: anyway, have you installed it, contemplated installing it, or...? | 13:14 |
| timeless | btw, i'm sorry i didn't see you @fosdem | 13:14 |
| jeremiah | timeless: Have not installed it, but will install it and take a look | 13:14 |
| timeless | i could have given you a demo :) | 13:14 |
| jeremiah | timeless: Yeah, me too. | 13:14 |
| timeless | anyway, are you using en-US or en-GB right now? | 13:14 |
| timeless | if you're using US, you'll just need to reboot | 13:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | jeremiah, you order your N810 yet? | 13:14 |
| jeremiah | timeless: Yep, US | 13:15 |
| timeless | ok | 13:15 |
| jeremiah | GeneralAntilles: I asked for one, I am not sure of the status | 13:15 |
| timeless | anyway, basically, if you're ever silly enough to try to uninstall the package | 13:15 |
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| jeremiah | I suppose I should go out and buy one ASAP. :) | 13:15 |
| timeless | you'll find your UI has no real 'words' | 13:15 |
| timeless | the reason is that i'm using Replaces because of the way the packages are designed | 13:16 |
| timeless | in Diablo, each app has one package for all localizations | 13:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless, if the packaging can't be fixed, maybe it'd be easier to install it as a separate locale? | 13:16 |
| timeless | and I'm only shipping enus, not the other 15 locales | 13:16 |
| timeless | gan: nope :) | 13:16 |
| timeless | definitely not easier | 13:16 |
| timeless | locales are disasters as is | 13:16 |
| timeless | i could make a thing which creates a backup in a preinst stage | 13:16 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: 99$ tegra mid is from the same story as 10$ notebook I think | 13:17 |
| timeless | and then when it uninstalls it could restore that | 13:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | I wonder if there'll be any proper Linux-support spillover from Android-support for Tegra. | 13:17 |
| jeremiah | timeless: So you are not using po files? | 13:17 |
| timeless | jeremiah: um, not particularly relevant | 13:18 |
| jeremiah | okay | 13:18 |
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| timeless | internally nokia uses .xml files and .po files and .dtd files and binary drops | 13:18 |
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| timeless | what's shipped to users are .xml files, .dtd files, and .mo files | 13:18 |
| timeless | sometimes we'll even ship a enGB file as enUS | 13:19 |
| timeless | just to add insult to injoury | 13:19 |
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| timeless | but the issue is that the package container has 16 locales | 13:19 |
| timeless | and as a vendor, i'm only vending a subset for each package | 13:19 |
| jeremiah | A subset of one or two languages . . . | 13:20 |
| timeless | 1/16 | 13:20 |
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| timeless | eventually localizers are free to try to get the other 15 right by starting w/ my locale and translating | 13:21 |
| timeless | but before they do that | 13:21 |
| timeless | we'd need to get this issue fixed | 13:21 |
| RST38h | General,wazd: What is all this tlak about Tegra? | 13:21 |
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| timeless | while i am confident that my strings are better than what nokia ships | 13:21 |
| timeless | i can imagine another localizer doing something wrong and having a customer uninstall their package(s) | 13:21 |
| * RST38h thought Tegra was experimental, no connection to reality yet | 13:21 | |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, see Engadget. | 13:22 |
| timeless | if they uninstall them and end up w/ nothing (or something indistiguishable from it), then the customer is in trouble | 13:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nothings changed, really. | 13:22 |
| jeremiah | timeless: right | 13:22 |
| * timeless ponders | 13:22 | |
| timeless | gan, so the sound chooser says 'Select sound' | 13:23 |
| timeless | someone suggested 'Select a sound' | 13:23 |
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| timeless | gtk20-l10n-enus1/po/en_US.po:msgstr "Select A File" | 13:23 |
| jeremiah | timeless: I'm going to need to take a closer look to see what is happening, I can't see the mechanism from the package side atm | 13:24 |
| jeremiah | Let me dig a little . . . | 13:24 |
| * timeless eyes gtk askance | 13:24 | |
| timeless | jeremiah: my guess is that Alternatives or whatever that thing is are what i need | 13:25 |
| timeless | lcars uses it to replace the nokia boot logo | 13:25 |
| RST38h | General: Also, there are persistent rumors that NVidia is working on an x86 compatible chip | 13:25 |
| * jeremiah looks at Alternatives indebian | 13:26 | |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, so I've heard | 13:26 |
| RST38h | HTC Touch Pro 2...hmmmm... | 13:26 |
| RST38h | Can it run Unix? | 13:26 |
| RST38h | Wait, Touch Diamond 2 is also using 800x480 display | 13:27 |
| timeless | hrm | 13:27 |
| timeless | gan? | 13:27 |
| timeless | any idea what | 13:27 |
| timeless | msgid "ai_ti_select_location" | 13:27 |
| timeless | msgstr "Select location" | 13:27 |
| timeless | msgid "ai_ia_select_location" | 13:27 |
| timeless | msgstr "Select location for application" | 13:27 |
| timeless | are for? | 13:27 |
| RST38h | Poor Nokia | 13:27 |
| timeless | oh | 13:28 |
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| timeless | that's select-menu-location | 13:28 |
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| timeless | which doesn't wfm in ham in Mer | 13:28 |
| jeremiah | timeless: This URL might be useful if you want to use "Alternatives" http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/91 | 13:28 |
| jeremiah | But I am not sure it addresses your issue | 13:29 |
| qwerty12 | At a guess, dpkg-divert? | 13:29 |
| jeremiah | Ah, replacing files with dpkg-divert? | 13:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | I hope this isn't totally ignored for Fremantle: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3822 | 13:30 |
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| qwerty12 | I've never actually used it so I don't know the specifics but it seems to keep the original files :) | 13:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd just as soon see select-menu-location gone. | 13:30 |
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| jeremiah | qwerty12: It shouldn't actually. If I remember correctly. I used it once a while back, a bit of a hack. | 13:31 |
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| jeremiah | What happens is that dpkg refuses to install the package if it writes over a specific type of file, you have to tell it that you want to do that. | 13:32 |
| qwerty12 | ah :/ | 13:32 |
| timeless | jeremiah: so, dpkg-divert sounds interesting | 13:33 |
| timeless | but um | 13:33 |
| timeless | it'd help if someone provided a real example | 13:34 |
| jeremiah | Yeah, how does it address _your_ issue? | 13:34 |
| jeremiah | Both these steps can be achieved with one command. For example assume we wish to replace the gcc command to cause it to add "-O2" to all compilation jobs we'd run the following command as root: | 13:34 |
| jeremiah | dpkg-divert --add --rename --divert /usr/bin/gcc.real /usr/bin/gcc | 13:35 |
| jeremiah | So if you have to change XML files or whatnot, you can use a call to dpkg-divert in your debian rules file | 13:35 |
| jeremiah | dpkg-divert --add --rename --divert /usr/bin/gcc.real /usr/bin/gcc | 13:36 |
| jeremiah | Sorry, | 13:36 |
| jeremiah | http://www.debian-administration.org/articles/118 | 13:36 |
| jeremiah | ^^ A useful link | 13:36 |
| timeless | http://pastebin.mozilla.org/625046 | 13:37 |
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| timeless | jeremiah: sorry, i need instructions in the form of cookie cutter DEBIAN/files | 13:37 |
| timeless | not random commands a hypothetical expert end user could run | 13:38 |
| timeless | i'm someone who doesn't care | 13:38 |
| timeless | and the localizers who will follow in my footsteps will care even less :) | 13:38 |
| timeless | if we can't fill in a blank, it won't happen :) | 13:38 |
| jeremiah | Right. | 13:38 |
| timeless | gan: i'm changing Select location* => Select menu* | 13:39 |
| timeless | because 'location' has other meanings | 13:39 |
| timeless | and it's totally stupid here | 13:39 |
| timeless | yeah, ok | 13:40 |
| timeless | this is almost doable | 13:40 |
| timeless | wonderful | 13:40 |
| timeless | i need 4 files | 13:40 |
| timeless | {pre,post}{inst,rm} | 13:40 |
| timeless | http://timeless.justdave.net/maemo/dpkg-divert-demo/DEBIAN/ | 13:42 |
| timeless | i'll use that as a starting point | 13:42 |
| jeremiah | I'll check that out. | 13:42 |
| timeless | there are source debs for my packages somewhere | 13:43 |
| timeless | if you could try to put together a demo for one of them | 13:43 |
| timeless | preferably such that i can easily c+p for the other 63 packages | 13:43 |
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| timeless | that'd be great | 13:43 |
| timeless | we're really talking about ~64 packages | 13:43 |
| jeremiah | timeless: I am happy to work on that today. | 13:43 |
| timeless | so things should be *dead simple* | 13:43 |
| timeless | otherwise, => no go | 13:43 |
| timeless | having to s/r lots of files is fail | 13:43 |
| timeless | thanks | 13:43 |
| timeless | anyway, enjoy the strings | 13:44 |
| jeremiah | s/r ? Do you mean substitute remove? | 13:44 |
| timeless | if you wnat bleeding, gan can share 0.1.2pre's url | 13:44 |
| timeless | search/replace | 13:44 |
| jeremiah | ah | 13:44 |
| jeremiah | Can you fire off an email to jeremiah@maemo.org so we can also continue off of IRC? | 13:44 |
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| timelE61i | sp3000 @ lunch? | 13:45 |
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| jeremiah | Mmmm lunch! | 13:46 |
| jeremiah | I am going to get some for myself. :) | 13:46 |
| X-Fade | Good idea. | 13:47 |
| * aquatix already had some | 13:48 | |
| aquatix | enjoy! | 13:48 |
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| wazd | making favorite rock songs as alarm was really bad idea | 13:51 |
| wazd | Just listened to it and kept sleeping :) | 13:52 |
| wazd | Have to get some uber-thrash russian pop | 13:52 |
| qwerty12 | Next tablet should come with a shock prodder | 13:52 |
| * GeneralAntilles just listens to the radio. | 13:52 | |
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| wazd | qwerty12: fire alarm horn :) | 13:53 |
| qwerty12 | hehe, probably have the same effect as the rest of my family wake up to beat the shit out of me :P | 13:53 |
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| wazd | What you will see next from Maemo 5 is the complete alpha SDK with the UI framework, but not the lead device. | 14:20 |
| wazd | goddamn | 14:20 |
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| Jaffa | wazd: where did you read that? | 14:21 |
| wazd | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=264787#post264787 | 14:21 |
| Jaffa | Ah cool. | 14:22 |
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| wazd | Well, I still wait for maemo 5 ui tomorrow) | 14:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't hold your breath. | 14:28 |
| wazd | goddamn! | 14:28 |
| wazd | Screw you guys, I'm going home( | 14:28 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: One should never hold their breath for one day ;) | 14:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, we suck! | 14:29 |
| X-Fade | No matter what is announced the next day. Or not.. | 14:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, well, you never know, there's always the chance you could end up breaking a world record. | 14:29 |
| wazd | I'm tired of waiting ( | 14:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, STFU. | 14:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | I've been waiting since 2007. :P | 14:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | I was expecting an OMAP3 tablet when the _N810_ was announced. . . . | 14:30 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: hah) | 14:30 |
| * Jaffa wants new toys | 14:31 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, at least you have an N810. | 14:31 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: I want to make software, even thoug World of Goo is awesome game) | 14:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | 2 years. . . . | 14:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Too goddamn long. | 14:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, why is that relevant? It's awesome, so you clearly can't make software? :P | 14:32 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: well, I need guidelines) | 14:32 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: Design without guidelines suck | 14:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, still don't see where World of Goo is relevant. :P | 14:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, Nokians keep saying to not wait for Nokia te get started. | 14:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | But I agree with you, wazd, working without guidelines sucks. | 14:33 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: I want to make software even while playing World of Goo ) | 14:33 |
| wazd | BTW it's not so cool to play with touchpad :( | 14:34 |
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| GeneralAntilles | F1 should just give up on trying to keep costs down. | 14:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | They need 1600HP turbo-charged engines and enough downforce to corner at 8G. | 14:35 |
| johnx | yeah, read the Nokia MWC on the bus :/ | 14:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Crippling the cars just makes them more boring. | 14:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Glad to see the grooves are gone, though. | 14:36 |
| johnx | rally is where it's at anyways, but WRC is screwing that up lately :/ | 14:36 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: forgot to upload src packages | 14:36 |
| johnx | me? | 14:36 |
| Stskeeps | done thst now :P | 14:36 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 14:37 |
| johnx | ah, crap. I forgot to run import on the server | 14:37 |
| johnx | sorry about that ... | 14:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, ALMS and *TCC is where it's at for me. | 14:38 |
| oli | is maemo livecd alive project? | 14:38 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: is finw | 14:38 |
| Stskeeps | i screwed up hal detection too | 14:38 |
| johnx | working as a team! :D | 14:39 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 14:39 |
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| GeneralAntilles | E55 looks nice | 15:14 |
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| b-man | 15:19 | |
| timelE61i | 15:26 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | Either my client's broken or you're just assholes. | 15:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~ping | 15:29 |
| infobot | ~pong | 15:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just assholes. | 15:29 |
| * Jaffa was wondering that | 15:29 | |
| timelE61i | well, my irc client rarely works | 15:31 |
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| b-man | infobot: burn himself | 15:33 |
| * infobot pours gasoline all over himself, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze | 15:33 | |
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| b-man | hehe | 15:34 |
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| tekojo | X-Fade: ping | 15:38 |
| X-Fade | tekojo: pong. | 15:38 |
| b-man | pritty quite today :) | 15:39 |
| tekojo | X-Fade: the training materials | 15:39 |
| X-Fade | tekojo: Will coach dneary.. | 15:40 |
| tekojo | Coach or just give a hand | 15:40 |
| dneary | Hi all | 15:40 |
| tekojo | dneary: there you are :-) | 15:40 |
| X-Fade | tekojo: Well he's the docmaster, so he should be able to do it anyway ;) | 15:40 |
| dneary | Coach is fine :) I'd like to understand better what's happening here | 15:40 |
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| X-Fade | tekojo: So coaching seems to be the better option. | 15:41 |
| * X-Fade is being swamped with requests on his first work day after holiday ;) | 15:41 | |
| tekojo | simply just moving the existing stuff to an archive folder and moving the new stuff to a visible place | 15:41 |
| tekojo | X-Fade: which reminds me to send you an e-mail about server logs and statistics | 15:42 |
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| * X-Fade runs ... | 15:44 | |
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| dneary | OK - so, I want to be clear what I need to do before I break anything... | 15:45 |
| dneary | Create a new folder, development/training/chinook | 15:45 |
| X-Fade | dneary: I'll walk you through it, but first let's do the voting. | 15:46 |
| tekojo | just training/chinook | 15:46 |
| dneary | Move everything from the folder development/training to development/training/chinook | 15:46 |
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| timelE61i | andre? | 15:46 |
| tekojo | or training/archive if you prefer | 15:46 |
| timelE61i | Do you file bugs about beagle/tracker? | 15:46 |
| andre__ | timelE61i, yepp? | 15:46 |
| X-Fade | dneary: Because I don't have time to fix it if you break the site.. | 15:46 |
| tekojo | Oops, it is development/training... | 15:46 |
| dneary | X-Fade: You want to get the database up & going first? I have an hour or two of scripting to do for that | 15:46 |
| andre__ | timelE61i, means? | 15:47 |
| dneary | tekojo: Yes - not development/documentation/training :) | 15:47 |
| timelE61i | There's a thing called "xesan" it's some sort of f plugin | 15:47 |
| timelE61i | Xesam auto index disabled. Click to active. | 15:47 |
| dneary | The things I don't know how to do are: (1) moving everything to a sub-folder and (2) copying the new docs to the vacated folder | 15:47 |
| timelE61i | Is what i get when i hover over it | 15:48 |
| timelE61i | Which is cute, but wrong :) | 15:48 |
| dneary | Xesam is the desktop search module | 15:48 |
| dneary | Oh - you know that | 15:48 |
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| timelE61i | Well, i wouldn't say i know anything | 15:48 |
| * dneary realises that timelE61i is probably timeless | 15:48 | |
| tekojo | dneary: yes that's timeless | 15:49 |
| dneary | OK - so let's reach agreement | 15:49 |
| dneary | I was first going to move the documents, then set up the election | 15:49 |
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| dneary | Both probably need to be done today | 15:50 |
| dneary | But I definitely need Niels to do the election | 15:50 |
| dneary | X-Fade: Is there any way you can give me an access to that mysql database, I'd be able to get by on my own? | 15:50 |
| Jaffa | It sounds like there are still lots of karma bugs outstanding, despite them being repriotisied in the sprint meeting | 15:50 |
| * timelE61i tries to use google code from a computer which crawls slower than an n800 | 15:51 | |
| b-man | lol | 15:53 |
| florian | timelE61i: the e71 is a good replacement :-) | 15:53 |
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| dneary | OK - logged in to maintenance.maemo.org | 15:54 |
| dneary | tekojo: That's the URL for the docs importer | 15:55 |
| tekojo | dneary: https://maintenance.maemo.org/midcom-exec-fi.hut.htmlimport/import-directory.php | 15:56 |
| dneary | Yeah, I'm there | 15:56 |
| X-Fade | tekojo: Please.. private messages ;) | 15:56 |
| tekojo | dneary: Oops, just gathering my stuff, need to get hom | 15:56 |
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| dneary | So - I think that this step has been done already | 15:56 |
| dneary | That page is for uploading .tars of HTML pages, right? | 15:57 |
| tekojo | dneary: both yes | 15:57 |
| tekojo | dneary: now it is just moving everything where they belong | 15:57 |
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| tekojo | dneary: and probably something huge, which I have overlooked, but X-Fade will know | 15:58 |
| tekojo | dneary: need to run | 15:58 |
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| timelE61i | andre i filed browser-extension-for-beagle issue 5 | 16:09 |
| andre__ | ...but not in bugs.maemo.org . | 16:12 |
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| timelE61i | yEah, i decided i'd crawl through code.google.com | 16:16 |
| timelE61i | I have some nitro bugs to file :) | 16:17 |
| timelE61i | You can import those :) | 16:17 |
| andre__ | err from where to where? | 16:17 |
| timelE61i | tHey fixed a bug i complained about (Ok v OK) by fixing the enGB po file | 16:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | I wonder if maemo.nokia.com is ever gonna go live. | 16:18 |
| timelE61i | Which doesn't help me since i run enUS | 16:18 |
| andre__ | who is "they"? | 16:18 |
| timelE61i | They=nokia maemo sdk people | 16:18 |
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| GeneralAntilles | The evil monsters under your bed. | 16:18 |
| timelE61i | From bugs to nokia's bz | 16:18 |
| timelE61i | 3floors down actually | 16:18 |
| RST38h | General: There is already a consumer site for the tablets, so why not? | 16:18 |
| timelE61i | But they're all away for the week | 16:18 |
| timelE61i | Rst: tableteer? | 16:19 |
| RST38h | Few DNS changes and it is there | 16:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, it seems like they might be waiting on Fremantel. | 16:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/tel/tle/ | 16:19 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: RST38h, it seems like they might be waiting on Fremantle. | 16:19 |
| Stskeeps | Fermantle? :P | 16:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | or maybe this is blocking: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Texts_for_maemo.nokia.com | 16:19 |
| RST38h | General: Who knows what they are waiting for... May simply have to do with the lack of spare hands | 16:19 |
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| GeneralAntilles | The "What is Maemo?" section is stupid. | 16:21 |
| johnx | ah! that would be the prime example of how to make 'Maemo' more confusing than it actually is | 16:22 |
| timelE61i | what is maemo? | 16:23 |
| Stskeeps | jesus, why does my builds break so badly today.. | 16:23 |
| Stskeeps | timelE61i: beats me | 16:23 |
| Stskeeps | what is the Maemo Platform? | 16:23 |
| b-man | Stskeeps: problems with 0.8? | 16:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | According to the proposed text in the wiki: "Maemo is more than a software development platform. Maemo is an open collaboration between a major corporation and a generous group of volunteer programmers, hackers, designers, and users. While Maemo is a system with Linux at its heart, it is also an organization consisting of both people and code. With and open heart -- and an open mind -- Maemo operates freely and unhindered." | 16:23 |
| qwerty12_N800 | ~wikipedia Maemo | 16:23 |
| RST38h | General: judging from the texts at wiki, it will end up being a mirror of maemo.org | 16:24 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: nah, just bad setup | 16:24 |
| infobot | At http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo (URL), Wikipedia explains: "'Maemo' may refer to: * Maemo Platform, Nokia's software and development platform. * Maemo (operating system), the operating system for Nokia Internet Tablets. " | 16:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, a software platform being a mirror of a website? | 16:24 |
| timelE61i | uNhindered? | 16:24 |
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| Stskeeps | neat, im getsies a 770 | 16:25 |
| timelE61i | EmphAsis added by phone... | 16:25 |
| b-man | Stskeeps: nice | 16:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | "Maemo" is most certainly not an organization. . . . | 16:28 |
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| RST38h | General: [carefully, as if talking to a child] By "maemo.org" I meant a website that come up when you type maemo.org into your browser address bar and press enter | 16:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, the sarcasm is a nice touch. | 16:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | You clearly meant maemo.nokia.com, while I had moved on to Maemo. | 16:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anyway, what's there on the wiki was mostly contributed by Tim and Quim. | 16:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | So it doesn't necessarily have a lot to do with what the real website will look like. | 16:31 |
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| * Stskeeps curses loudly and restarts imaging process | 16:35 | |
| johnx | what happened? | 16:35 |
| Stskeeps | NFS stale handle i think, and it thought the 0.8 directory was somewhere else | 16:36 |
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| johnx | sad | 16:36 |
| johnx | never was a fan of NFS | 16:36 |
| qwerty12_N800 | How far had you gotten up to? | 16:36 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: shipping without HAL detection of RX-44 keyboard, but it can be enabled with a simple setxkbmap command | 16:37 |
| Stskeeps | and also, there is something i found.. | 16:37 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: can you mer-ize https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/?root=maemo-xkb-plugi at some point? | 16:38 |
| timelE61i | johnx: smb+zfs :) | 16:38 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: well in this case it is NFS from within a qemu so | 16:39 |
| johnx | timelE61i, sshfs wins | 16:39 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: it is a XKB keyboard changer with a CPA | 16:39 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps: sure | 16:39 |
| dneary | Hi all | 16:39 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hi | 16:39 |
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| timelE61i | Johnx: support on w32 ? | 16:40 |
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| johnx | timelE61i, unimportant | 16:40 |
| * Stskeeps uses smb+zfs | 16:41 | |
| Stskeeps | (at home) | 16:41 |
| johnx | win32 can act as the 'server' for sshfs | 16:41 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | there's a free equivalent of sshfs for w32 somewhere (as pointed out to me by glass) | 16:41 |
| * timeless tries to figure out how to update swift(2) | 16:41 | |
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| johnx | any scp or sftp client wouldn't be bad | 16:42 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: on x86 it dies in FBW btw, with only 64mb ram | 16:42 |
| Stskeeps | no idea why though | 16:43 |
| johnx | really? | 16:43 |
| johnx | madness | 16:43 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 16:43 |
| Stskeeps | i tested in vmware | 16:43 |
| johnx | dies with OOM or something else? | 16:43 |
| Stskeeps | not sure | 16:43 |
| johnx | ah | 16:43 |
| timelE61i | fbw? | 16:44 |
| johnx | first-boot-wizard | 16:44 |
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| Stskeeps | in style with HIM, HIME, HIMF and HDE, etc :P | 16:45 |
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| Stskeeps | i wonder if there is any of the maemo- apps that shorts to MILF.. | 16:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, if not, it's time to make one. ;) | 16:46 |
| johnx | maemo idyllic lifelike furries | 16:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maemo-I*-L*-Framework | 16:46 |
| johnx | I = internet | 16:47 |
| johnx | no choice there | 16:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Location? | 16:47 |
| Stskeeps | maemo internet layout framework | 16:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maybe we should rename AGPS. ;) | 16:48 |
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| dneary | Instant | 16:48 |
| dneary | ID | 16:48 |
| johnx | maybe L = liken | 16:48 |
| johnx | or lichen | 16:49 |
| dneary | IM | 16:49 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Internet Lichen sound horrifying | 16:51 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Maybe we should have those grow on the desktop if you don't care for your tablet enough. | 16:51 |
| RST38h | it already grows all over facebook | 16:52 |
| timelE61i | so... | 16:53 |
| timelE61i | If i only use wifi basestations to find out where i am | 16:53 |
| Stskeeps | mm? | 16:53 |
| timelE61i | (i.e. I have an n800 w/o bt-gps, plus mer) | 16:53 |
| timelE61i | Is that still AGPS? | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | hehe, good question | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | isnt AGPS just the almanac stuff? | 16:54 |
| * timelE61i shrugs | 16:54 | |
| GeneralAntilles | No, that's not AGPS | 16:54 |
| timelE61i | pretend i know nothing about gps | 16:54 |
| johnx | the A is there. but not the 'GPS' :) | 16:55 |
| aquatix | hm, that E55 phone sure looks pretty | 16:55 |
| timelE61i | Pretend that a "location" library wants to satisfy my usecase | 16:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Skyhook is the sort of thing that does that. | 16:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | aquatix, yeah, it looks quite nice. | 16:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | I want a small, thin phone. | 16:56 |
| timelE61i | oH, i'm sure it's possible | 16:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Unfortunately the NAM version probably wont ship until 2010. :roll: | 16:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | timelE61i, I don't know if there's a proper "name" for that sort of location service, though. | 16:56 |
| timelE61i | Nam? | 16:56 |
| qwerty12_N800 | North American | 16:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | North American | 16:56 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Maybe WPS (WiFi Positioning System) | 16:57 |
| timelE61i | what if my n800 is usb tethered w/ wifi off? :) | 16:57 |
| johnx | it's just "location service" | 16:58 |
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| timelE61i | Heck, what if my mer is running my laptop w/ ethernet | 16:58 |
| johnx | there are a couple abstract libraries for this sort of thing (or so I thought) | 16:58 |
| timelE61i | (it is, does, etc.) | 16:58 |
| timelE61i | There are | 16:58 |
| timelE61i | Anyway, i'd assert that the name should handle these scenarios | 16:58 |
| johnx | what name? | 16:59 |
| timelE61i | this maemo i l f | 17:00 |
| johnx | ah | 17:00 |
| timelE61i | which has an NSFW abbr | 17:00 |
| johnx | geoclue is the library | 17:00 |
| timelE61i | So please XXX me | 17:00 |
| timelE61i | Err fix | 17:01 |
| johnx | http://arstechnica.com/open-source/news/2009/01/location-awareness-comes-to-the-linux-platform.ars | 17:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia is pushing their own competitor to GeoClue, apparently. | 17:01 |
| * johnx sighs | 17:01 | |
| timelE61i | probably neoclue :) | 17:01 |
| johnx | I hope they have absolutely bulletproof reasoning why geoclue can't work for them | 17:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Does anybody think the 2nd paragraph here is mostly Apple-spam? | 17:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nokia_5800_XpressMusic#History | 17:02 |
| timelE61i | nokia exactly obfuscated clue | 17:02 |
| RST38h | johnx: they don't | 17:02 |
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| timelE61i | Nih? :) | 17:02 |
| RST38h | General: Doesn't wiki allow to find who exactly added it? | 17:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2037 | 17:02 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, eh. doesn't seem to be really | 17:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, I'm not sure why it took the iPhone to demonstrate that Nokia didn't have a touchscreen phone. | 17:03 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I'd also say the bit about S90 misses Maemo. | 17:04 |
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| johnx | it was the big event that year in smartphones, like it or not | 17:04 |
| dneary | Hi | 17:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, I don't disagree, I'm just not sure any of that is really encyclopedic. | 17:04 |
| RST38h | Maemo never ran on a phone | 17:04 |
| johnx | hi dneary | 17:04 |
| dneary | Two questions: | 17:04 |
| RST38h | S90 did | 17:04 |
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| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, but it's a platform, and Nokia owns it. | 17:04 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, I'm not sure an article on a phone is entirely encyclopedic sooo... | 17:04 |
| dneary | 1. In the maemo users database, there are some accounts that don't have a creation date associated, but clearly the people involved are old-timers | 17:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | The migration to Garage may have left some weirdness. | 17:05 |
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| timelE61i | pEople remember s90? | 17:07 |
| timelE61i | Why? | 17:07 |
| dneary | (eg. gustavotiberio) | 17:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | dneary, let's just assume no creation date accounts are older than 3 months. | 17:08 |
| X-Fade | probably older than 3 years ;) | 17:09 |
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| aquatix | timelE61i: i remember | 17:13 |
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| Jaffa | dneary/GeneralAntilles/X-Fade: lardman|afk makes the point very clearly - if there are big problems with karma, that's a bit of a big problem. | 17:20 |
| dneary | Jaffa: I agree | 17:21 |
| dneary | I don't think that there are big problems with karma, but there are clearly some small ones, to say the least | 17:21 |
| dneary | X-Fade: Your account doesn't have any creation date :) | 17:22 |
| X-Fade | dneary: All the l337 guys don't have one ;) | 17:22 |
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| Jaffa | dneary: indeed, hopefully they're localised and specific. But progress seems... slow. | 17:24 |
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| GeneralAntilles | maemo-community needs to be indexed. . . . | 17:25 |
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| lcuk | offer a karma boost to the developer who implements the best karma calc | 17:25 |
| Jaffa | Or fix's Andrea's and Simon's karma calcs | 17:26 |
| lcuk | *must include questionairre for girlfriends partners to confirm karma ratings | 17:26 |
| lcuk | that as well lol | 17:26 |
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| Jaffa | lcuk: different kind o' karma ;-) | 17:26 |
| lcuk | i thought there were many facets to karma, i have been working on my gf for years in the hope of improving my maemo.org karma rating | 17:27 |
| * lcuk is devistated | 17:27 | |
| lcuk | devastated as well :$ | 17:28 |
| lcuk | is(seplling==crap)karma--; | 17:28 |
| johnx | how does your wife feel about you spending so much time with your gf? | 17:28 |
| mgedmin | s/is/if/ | 17:29 |
| lcuk | i spend equal times with them both :D | 17:29 |
| RST38h | johnx: it is the same girl most likely | 17:30 |
| lcuk | (and the wife as well) | 17:30 |
| mgedmin | both girlfriends and a wife? | 17:30 |
| mgedmin | that's three total | 17:30 |
| lcuk | yeah, now you know why im so tired all the time | 17:30 |
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| johnx | lcuk, from telling so many lies? :P | 17:31 |
| lcuk | whatever gives you that impression? | 17:31 |
| * lcuk will probably die later when tracy reads this :S :'( | 17:32 | |
| johnx | :) | 17:32 |
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| Jaffa | Mrs Jaffa's not been on IRC for, oooh, ten years or so. I'm probably safe :) | 17:33 |
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| lcuk | tracy keeps nicking one of the nokias here, i tell her she should really have an account, but then i realise she will probably code me under the table | 17:33 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: [state-of-factly] this conversation is being logged. | 17:34 |
| lcuk | RST38h, mrs jaffa does not know that jaffa is a pseudonym and he wears an orange mask when in irc | 17:34 |
| aquatix | Jaffa: your girl has been on irc? | 17:35 |
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| * Stskeeps 's has too. | 17:35 | |
| aquatix | mine hasn't | 17:35 |
| Jaffa | aquatix: aye. | 17:35 |
| aquatix | she has a xubuntu laptop and is loving it though :) | 17:35 |
| * Jaffa and Mrs Jaffa wouldn't have met if she hadn't been on IRC (a friend of mine was checking who else from warwick.ac.uk was on IRC and semi-stalking them, Mrs Jaffa was then initiated into a Warwick talker and that's how we met) | 17:37 | |
| * Stskeeps was fixing another girls computer and his fiancee asked if i could fix her computer, .. and one thing went to another | 17:37 | |
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| * lcuk stares blankly at the strange gender mix in that comment | 17:39 | |
| RST38h | Sts: so she made th initial advance? =) | 17:39 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: yes, but admittedly i had initially tried to talk to her while being slightly drunk and not knowing who she was some month before | 17:39 |
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| * Jaffa got a (semi-)date through fixing a friend of a friends computer; just before meeting the missus. So, on the whole, I suppose no matter how much I hate computers, I've still got a net +ve. | 17:40 | |
| lcuk | bbl | 17:41 |
| * aquatix has a highschool sweetheart | 17:41 | |
| aquatix | those exist apparently :) | 17:41 |
| Jaffa | And you're a dirty old 30 year old? ;-) | 17:41 |
| aquatix | ha | 17:42 |
| aquatix | i mean we've been together since | 17:42 |
| * Stskeeps is talking to close to zero of highschool mates | 17:42 | |
| * Jaffa grins | 17:42 | |
| aquatix | Jaffa: and i'm nearing 30 indeed | 17:42 |
| aquatix | Stskeeps: yeah, don't see many of them either | 17:42 |
| aquatix | like, one daily and one every so many months | 17:42 |
| aquatix | that's about it | 17:42 |
| * Jaffa 's next birthday is the last big one for a while: 2^5 :) | 17:43 | |
| Stskeeps | on the other hand i move 130km away.. | 17:43 |
| Macer | god i hate setting up a new fbsd box | 17:43 |
| aquatix | i turned 0x1B this year | 17:44 |
| aquatix | Macer: apt-get install debian | 17:44 |
| * aquatix runs | 17:44 | |
| Macer | haha | 17:44 |
| Macer | i'll probably put debian on the artigo when it shows up | 17:44 |
| Macer | i wanted to see how well the artigo works as a desktop linux box | 17:45 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Jesus didn't make it to 34, btw | 17:45 |
| * RST38h always has kind words of encouragement | 17:46 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Sounds like a threat. | 17:46 |
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| Veggen | Jaffa: I sent a cake invitation at work, saying I had a "birthday, round in both the 5- and 7-digit system" | 17:46 |
| Veggen | Jaffa: That really separated the geeks from the rest ;) | 17:46 |
| aquatix | RST38h: so, you encourage nailing Jaffa? | 17:47 |
| aquatix | *crickets* | 17:48 |
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| johnx | Stskeeps, gotcha beat :) | 17:49 |
| dneary | For info: 3 people had karma > 25 and an account created less than 3 months ago | 17:49 |
| dneary | I think I'll mentioon that on the list. | 17:49 |
| dneary | Later | 17:49 |
| Macer | what is the best way to tar up /home and keep all the perms and .files ? | 17:49 |
| Macer | something that i can move over to another box and just extract and be done with it | 17:49 |
| johnx | Macer, sudo tar cvf my-home.tar /home | 17:50 |
| dneary | Macer: as root: tar -p -s | 17:50 |
| johnx | make sure you're not in /home | 17:50 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: mm? | 17:50 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, I moved a bit farther from my highschool :) | 17:50 |
| Macer | and if i were in home wouldn't tar cvf old.home.tar . work also? | 17:50 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: hehe, true | 17:51 |
| Macer | so i could just copy it to the new /home and extract it from there? | 17:51 |
| dneary | Macer: Or use rsync | 17:51 |
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| johnx | Macer, sure. why did you ask if you knew the answer? :P | 17:51 |
| * johnx also married his highschool sweetheart...only took ~9 years... | 17:52 | |
| aquatix | johnx: ha | 17:52 |
| aquatix | johnx: i will take about 11 i think | 17:52 |
| aquatix | hm, no, that's already in July :/ | 17:52 |
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| * Stskeeps has two year day with the fiancee but we are apart physically today sadly. | 17:54 | |
| Macer | johnx: was just confirming ;) | 17:54 |
| johnx | Macer, only thing is that if your version of tar is dumb it might have issues | 17:54 |
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| Macer | dneary: because i want to make compressed backups of user home dirs just in case | 17:54 |
| johnx | you are tar'ing up the directory you're making the tar in... | 17:54 |
| dneary | Macer: rsync can do this | 17:55 |
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| johnx | Stskeeps, I know the feeling. been there many times | 17:55 |
| jeremiah | To whom does the intebration@maemo.org email address map to? | 17:55 |
| dneary | rsync doesn't *have* to be remote | 17:55 |
| Macer | dneary: i'll look into rsync once i get the box up and running ;) | 17:55 |
| dneary | It can be local | 17:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | jeremiah, no idea. | 17:55 |
| dneary | In which case it'll work like tar -p -s | 17:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | jeremiah, supposedly it's the SDK team. | 17:55 |
| jeremiah | Sorry, intergration@maemo.org (not intebration) and not inebriation | 17:55 |
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| GeneralAntilles | But I've sent several emails to it with no response. | 17:56 |
| jeremiah | The SDK team, okay. | 17:56 |
| X-Fade | Let me check who is in the alias ;) | 17:56 |
| dneary | jeremiah: Did you have a lot of beer over the weekend or something? | 17:56 |
| jeremiah | heh | 17:56 |
| dneary | intebration looks like inebriation | 17:56 |
| jeremiah | Did someone say beer? | 17:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | jeremiah, see: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3923 | 17:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | er, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3922 | 17:56 |
| Macer | dneary: why would you use local rsync when you can just tar it? | 17:57 |
| jeremiah | So intergration@maemo.org disappears into Nokia HQ? | 17:57 |
| jeremiah | Can we add a CC to that? | 17:57 |
| dneary | Macer: Because rsync can do cool stuff like sync up afterwards with only diffs | 17:57 |
| jeremiah | Are we dealing with exim as MTA? Or something more exotic? | 17:57 |
| X-Fade | Hmm kaltsi is in that alias too? | 17:57 |
| dneary | So you can do your back-up as a daily cron job, for example | 17:58 |
| johnx | Macer, faster, easier access to files | 17:58 |
| dneary | And it handles permissions more easily | 17:58 |
| jeremiah | plus you can do rsync over ssh! | 17:58 |
| jeremiah | FTW | 17:58 |
| Macer | dneary: ah. i see. well.. i will start setting that up once i get a chance to do so | 17:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Did we ever get the alarmd sources? | 17:58 |
| Macer | jeremiah: that just sold me haha | 17:58 |
| * mgedmin wonders if people intentionally spell inteRgration with that extra R | 17:58 | |
| jeremiah | :) | 17:58 |
| Macer | but right now i have to migrate a home dir over from the fileserver to a VM | 17:59 |
| jeremiah | mgedmin: Nice catch. | 17:59 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: they lost them, but i have seen them in SDKs.. | 17:59 |
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| Macer | i'm trying to isolate the fileserver as much as i can | 17:59 |
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| Macer | i had my shell box home dir on it.. so i'm trying to not do that anymore... people who use shells don't need 5TB of home space haha | 17:59 |
| jeremiah | Does anything happen when you change the urgency of a package? | 18:00 |
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| jeremiah | Obviously it does in debian, | 18:00 |
| jeremiah | but does the maemo build server notice and react? | 18:00 |
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| jeremiah | Hmm, this scares me: Changed the license from GPL to Nokia modified MIT | 18:01 |
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| jeremiah | One cannot change the license. :-/ | 18:01 |
| jeremiah | (This is from the changelog in maemopad) | 18:02 |
| dphil314 | not by altering the install script? | 18:02 |
| jeremiah | If software is licensed under the GPL, you cannot change it. Nor can you change the license of derived works. | 18:02 |
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| Jaffa | jeremiah: The (c) owner can, surely? | 18:02 |
| jeremiah | Jaffa: If they are the copyright owner, yes. | 18:03 |
| jeremiah | Copyright owners can do as they please. | 18:03 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: you can change the license on thenext version | 18:03 |
| jeremiah | RST38h: Not on derived works. | 18:04 |
| jeremiah | You cannot bump the version of libc and just change the license. | 18:04 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: correct | 18:04 |
| Macer | wonder how well tar by itself compresses nowadays | 18:04 |
| johnx | Macer, not at all | 18:04 |
| RST38h | but maemopad is not derived from anything, is it? | 18:04 |
| qwerty12 | Macer, tar doesn't compress | 18:04 |
| jeremiah | You cannot link to a GPL'd .so file without using the GPL | 18:04 |
| Macer | wow really? | 18:05 |
| Macer | i always thought it did :) | 18:05 |
| qwerty12 | yep, it's why it's used with bzip2 or gzip | 18:05 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: libc is LGPLed afaik | 18:05 |
| johnx | Macer, it's a feature, not a bug | 18:05 |
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| Macer | i honestly didn't know that | 18:05 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: You are mistaking LGPL for GPL | 18:05 |
| johnx | tar = tape archive | 18:05 |
| johnx | it's just for putting things in a nice order and giving them a minimal header | 18:05 |
| jeremiah | RST38h: No, don't think so. | 18:05 |
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| Macer | i see :) | 18:06 |
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| Macer | honestly all these years i thought it did some sort of compression | 18:06 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: http://www.gnu.org/software/libtool/manual/libc/Copying.html#Copying | 18:06 |
| jeremiah | Macer: tar just stands for Tape ARchive | 18:06 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: questions? | 18:06 |
| Macer | never really used it much | 18:06 |
| Macer | i get to find out in a minute of esxi can use an external usb hd | 18:07 |
| dphil314 | tar.gz compresses | 18:07 |
| Macer | this should be fun | 18:07 |
| dphil314 | a tar within a gzip | 18:07 |
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| timelE61i | sO, it just occurred to me that naming two boxes "swift" and sitting them next to eachother isn't a good idea | 18:08 |
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| jeremiah | RST38h: I think you are confused. I specifically said that you cannot change the GPL. | 18:08 |
| Macer | after tweaking my esxi box a bit it is running great | 18:08 |
| Macer | i guess you are supposed to actually admin such things haha | 18:09 |
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| jeremiah | RST38h: Furthermore, you are referring to an outdated version of the LGPL, please read: http://www.gnu.org/copyleft/lesser.html | 18:11 |
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| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, for mer, can I put waitdbus from osso-af-tools in its own package, like you have done for fb-progress? | 18:12 |
| timelE61i | jeremiah: how goes it? | 18:12 |
| *** ceyusa_ has quit IRC | 18:12 | |
| timelE61i | And have you met mxr.maemo.org? | 18:12 |
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| * timelE61i is trying to get swift2 staged enough to try getting fremantle xref'd | 18:13 | |
| jeremiah | timelE61i: Heh, it goes well | 18:13 |
| jeremiah | I have not met mxr.maemo.org, but I might surf over there now. | 18:13 |
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| timelE61i | for public things it can help chasing down debian/control bits and their origins | 18:16 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: I am referring to the glibc library that maemopad dynamically links to | 18:16 |
| timelE61i | rst: glibc has some screwy exclusion | 18:16 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: glibc is licensed under lgpl and and main difference of lgpl vs gpl is that lgpl allows dynamic linking of non-gpled code | 18:16 |
| jeremiah | RST38h: Which LGPL license does it in fact ship with? Which specific version? | 18:17 |
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| RST38h | jeremiah: I guess different glibcs ship with different versions of lgpl | 18:18 |
| RST38h | but they should ALL allow linking of proprietary code | 18:18 |
| jeremiah | RST38h: Yeah, and the updated LGPL is the same as GPL v3 | 18:18 |
| jeremiah | GPL v3 is much more specific about what you can link to. | 18:19 |
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| RST38h | jeremiah: go to your own url and read 4.d.1 | 18:21 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: go ahead | 18:22 |
| RST38h | as opposed to 4.d.0 of course | 18:22 |
| RST38h | So, even if it is v3, it is still an LGPL license all right | 18:22 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, ta | 18:22 |
| jeremiah | RST38h: Will do - I am not a layer though. | 18:22 |
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| jeremiah | RST38h: The problem is this line in the begining; | 18:24 |
| Macer | a LGPL.. "an" comes before words with vowels | 18:24 |
| jeremiah | This license is a set of additional permissions added to version 3 of the GNU General Public License." | 18:24 |
| Macer | :) | 18:24 |
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| jeremiah | So the modern LGPL is an "additional set of permissions" | 18:25 |
| RST38h | Macer: [yawn] try to spell L G P L | 18:25 |
| Macer | haha | 18:25 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: see permission 4.d.0 | 18:25 |
| jeremiah | But, like I said, I am not a laweer | 18:25 |
| jeremiah | Or a layer. | 18:25 |
| RST38h | Any more pedants in the room? =) | 18:25 |
| jeremiah | Or a loafer | 18:25 |
| jeremiah | Pendants? | 18:26 |
| Macer | acronyms are based on the pronounciation of the words | 18:26 |
| Macer | not on the spelling of the acronym | 18:26 |
| jeremiah | RST38h: So you are saying this is a "combined" work? | 18:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Obviously the only answer is to sue Nokia and see what they say. . . . | 18:27 |
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| Macer | GeneralAntilles: hahaha | 18:27 |
| jeremiah | GeneralAntilles: It gets a bit tricky. | 18:27 |
| Macer | i agree | 18:27 |
| jeremiah | They might not sue Nokia, but they might try to sue Maemo | 18:28 |
| Macer | jeremiah: which is why nokia has $50,000,000 set aside each year for lawyers | 18:28 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: see item 0 | 18:28 |
| RST38h | jeremiah: it defines what a combined work is | 18:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | jeremiah, Maemo is Nokia. | 18:28 |
| RST38h | Frankly, I do not see what is the point in insisting that GLIBC is a full GPL lib | 18:29 |
| jeremiah | Well, there are clearly some questions here - you cannot change licenses. | 18:29 |
| RST38h | Ok, let us say GLIBC is a full GPL lib. This effectively means that no commercial developer will EVER develop for Linux | 18:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Unless you're the copyright owner, and isn't Nokia the copyright owner? | 18:29 |
| Jaffa | jeremiah: If Nokia is the sole copyright owner of Maemopad (and I believe they are), they can - as you say | 18:29 |
| jeremiah | Jaffa: Yes, but it relies on lots of other software | 18:29 |
| jeremiah | That they do not have the licenses for | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | dear god, a gpl discussion? :P | 18:30 |
| jeremiah | So it is a "derived work" | 18:30 |
| RST38h | You do not want commercial developers produce anything for Linux? | 18:30 |
| * Stskeeps gets out the popcorn | 18:30 | |
| Macer | Stskeeps: i think it's more of an argument than a discussion | 18:30 |
| Jaffa | jeremiah: but the source of Maemopad can be under any licence they like, as long as it's compatible with the licences of that which it's derived/merged/bundled/whatever | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: gpl discussions are always arguments.. | 18:30 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, heh. yup. make sure you have plenty. this could be an epic. maybe even a 3-parter with intermissions | 18:30 |
| RST38h | Sts: our good friend jeremiah here (not a layer) insists that anyone linking against GLIBC is bound by the full GPL | 18:30 |
| jeremiah | RST38h: Obviously I most certainly do want that. This is why I think the license should remain GPL and not be switched. | 18:30 |
| Macer | hahaha | 18:30 |
| * GeneralAntilles begins throwing the unpopped kernels at the bottom of the bag at Stskeeps. | 18:30 | |
| johnx | RST38h, are you a lawyer? | 18:31 |
| Macer | uh oh | 18:31 |
| RST38h | johnx: No, but I am an asshole. Isn't it sufficient? | 18:31 |
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| Stskeeps | RST38h: except glibc is lgpl, which is a bit different.. | 18:31 |
| Stskeeps | also the system libraries exception yadda yadda | 18:31 |
| jeremiah | RST38h: Please do not put words in my mouth. That is not what I said. | 18:31 |
| Macer | Stskeeps: don't feed them! | 18:31 |
| RST38h | Sts: see discussion above | 18:31 |
| jeremiah | I hate this kind of discussion too, unfortunately you have to have it. | 18:32 |
| RST38h | We don't. | 18:32 |
| jeremiah | I will take this offline now. | 18:32 |
| johnx | RST38h, lawyers are assholes with years of training. same relationship between masochists and professional skateboarders | 18:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, you get to watch Seinfeld over there? | 18:32 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: yes, but not these days | 18:32 |
| RST38h | johnx: you don't need training to read a license | 18:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Yada_Yada | 18:32 |
| Macer | seinfeld? | 18:32 |
| johnx | RST38h, and you don't need training to stand on a skateboard | 18:32 |
| RST38h | johnx: obviously | 18:33 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: i dunno if it is from seinfeld.. it just entered my vocabulary at some point | 18:33 |
| Macer | was a good show i suppose.. never got into it much tho | 18:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, it's not, but the Seinfeld reference is quite funny. | 18:33 |
| Macer | haha.. the yadda yadda one? :) | 18:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Macer, that's sad. | 18:33 |
| johnx | RST38h, but standing on a skateboard does not make you a good skateboarder and reading a license does not mean you understand it | 18:33 |
| Macer | where he dates the girl and keeps saying it | 18:33 |
| Macer | that was a pretty funny one | 18:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anti-Dentite | 18:34 |
| Pradeeptk | Hi guys, Is GtkStatusIcon working as expected on Maemo5, if not is there are work around | 18:34 |
| RST38h | johnx: well, I hope we are not having a competition in understanding licenses :) | 18:34 |
| Macer | i think you're both wrong | 18:35 |
| Macer | but that's just me | 18:35 |
| johnx | RST38h, that's what a 'discussion' (read: argument) about licenses *is* | 18:35 |
| Macer | realistically the gpl and lgpl don't work | 18:35 |
| Macer | anybody who writes something can always just say that there is proprietary code and just release the opened code and keep the rest | 18:36 |
| RST38h | johnx: it is kinda old argument, especially considering that lgpl allowing dynamic linking of proprietary code is a long known fact | 18:36 |
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| Stskeeps | RST38h: i had several years of discussions if loaded .sos are "linking" | 18:36 |
| Stskeeps | when the .sos are extensions | 18:36 |
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| RST38h | johnx: I mean, we can reenforce it by rereading the license, but it is pointless | 18:36 |
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| RST38h | Sts: Yes. That is dynamic linking. | 18:37 |
| Stskeeps | after that i went for the bsd license on most of my stuff :P | 18:37 |
| johnx | RST38h, from a 3rd person perspective I think you and jeremiah were probably just having issues defining your terms and seeing eye to eye...which seems to be the end result of most amateurs discussing licenses | 18:37 |
| Macer | RST38h: then start taking companies to court because they didn't release the code which contained one line that was in some source that was under the gpl and not the lgpl? :) | 18:37 |
| RST38h | johnx: Terms are defined in item #0 of LGPL | 18:37 |
| Macer | it's too much of a hassle. like a parking ticket. | 18:37 |
| RST38h | Macer: Yes, you can | 18:37 |
| Macer | RST38h: i am sure you can.. but is it worth it? | 18:38 |
| RST38h | Mcer: But it has nothing to do with LGPL issue | 18:38 |
| Macer | then the company will just say "ok. fuck you all then.. we will not use open software anymore." | 18:38 |
| Macer | the end. | 18:38 |
| johnx | Macer, the reality is a lot more grey | 18:38 |
| Macer | realistically the only people who would care would be open developers and tweakers | 18:38 |
| Macer | the end users could care less about what kind of software is being used on something they like | 18:39 |
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| Macer | so you just lost .0001% of your base.. i think the company will survive :) | 18:39 |
| johnx | companies use open source because somehow they think it will 1) save them money or 2) make them money | 18:40 |
| Macer | i know. look at MS .. they're dying over there with all that closed source stuff | 18:40 |
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| * Stskeeps hands out more popcorn | 18:41 | |
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| Macer | Stskeeps: =) wow.. it's easy to get sucked in isn't it? | 18:41 |
| * johnx could really go for some | 18:41 | |
| Stskeeps | bacon flavoured chips are nice too. | 18:42 |
| Macer | i'm going to make a pizza | 18:42 |
| Macer | haha | 18:42 |
| * johnx makes a tuna sammich | 18:42 | |
| johnx | Macer, I concede the point. let's all start using MS products and let Linux die a slow death | 18:42 |
| Macer | johnx: it's the opposite ;) | 18:42 |
| Macer | we all use ms products and are allowing linux to live a slow life | 18:42 |
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| Macer | i'm just taking it from the perspective of business... if it becomes too much of a hassle.. and you have joe coder trying to sue you just because you wanted to keep something to yourselves for one reason or another... | 18:43 |
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| Macer | then you just close shop and tell joe coder to go fuck himself .. make his own shit | 18:44 |
| Macer | because like i said.. you will not lose much of your base... joe coder and extreme tweaker are a very small portion of your market | 18:44 |
| Macer | the rest are just the cattle | 18:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Open source seems to be making major gains in commercial software. | 18:44 |
| johnx | right, but the reality is that a company with that little commitment to open source will find one or another annoyance that stops them sooner or later | 18:44 |
| dphil314 | most people in my IT dept don't know linux, they're all mcse | 18:44 |
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| dphil314 | but they also get infested with viruses | 18:45 |
| Macer | johnx: how much actual commercial open source stuff is out there that wasn't there already? | 18:45 |
| johnx | dphil314, your IT people are infested with viruses? how's the health plan? | 18:45 |
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| dphil314 | i dunno, i'm a contractor | 18:45 |
| Macer | when you look at maemo.. it really is just the same old 10 yr old stuff :) | 18:45 |
| johnx | Macer, what does that even mean? | 18:45 |
| Stskeeps | dphil314: i had an argument with my brother that a CS degree was slightly more advanced than a mcse.. | 18:46 |
| Macer | older maybe | 18:46 |
| Macer | anyways.. i'm hungry... talk to you guys later | 18:47 |
| dphil314 | just cooked pancakes | 18:47 |
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| dphil314 | i'm able to run gtk programs in Xephyr outside the AF, but ab-sb-init.sh returns a bunch of errors: http://pastebin.ca/1339076 | 18:53 |
| Stskeeps | maemo5 pre-alpha2? | 18:53 |
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| Stskeeps | or diablo | 18:53 |
| dphil314 | 4.1 | 18:53 |
| dphil314 | diablo | 18:53 |
| dphil314 | ubuntu intrepid | 18:53 |
| dphil314 | maybe it's the virtualbox vm i'm running ubuntu in | 18:55 |
| Stskeeps | dphil314: those look fairly normal | 18:56 |
| Stskeeps | it is warnings, not errors.. | 18:56 |
| dphil314 | yes, the AF gui starts | 18:56 |
| dphil314 | but SB doesn't return to the command prompt for me to execute the program ... maybe if i put in background | 18:57 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 18:57 |
| qwerty12 | just press enter and you get a shell, albeit with af printing its crap | 18:57 |
| dphil314 | oh wait, it finally returned to the prompt | 18:58 |
| dphil314 | and the gtk prog runs in the AF | 18:59 |
| dphil314 | "woah ... i know kung fu" | 18:59 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lol . . . itT | 19:03 |
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| johnx | the mwc thread? | 19:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, among other things. | 19:04 |
| dneary | (Just wondering: I see Lardman at 369 karma points | 19:05 |
| dneary | Is that less than he should have? | 19:05 |
| dneary | Jaffa: Any ideas? | 19:05 |
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| wazd | I think my current Mer UI mockup sucks | 19:05 |
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| Stskeeps | got a new better one? ;) | 19:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | You, we know you suck wazd. :P | 19:05 |
| dphil314 | i a user collects false karma, will he pay for it in the next life? | 19:05 |
| thopiekar1 | hey | 19:06 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: shut your mouth, fatass © xD | 19:06 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: no, but I have some ideas | 19:06 |
| Stskeeps | alright | 19:06 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: work on 480 adaptation told me that it sucks ) | 19:06 |
| dphil314 | hello kitty? | 19:07 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: hehe | 19:07 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: we do not have to have same layout on every display | 19:07 |
| Stskeeps | for good measure :P | 19:07 |
| johnx | same layout on every display! | 19:07 |
| wazd | I'll try to make unified layout | 19:08 |
| wazd | it will rock I tell ya | 19:08 |
| johnx | I was actually kidding... :P | 19:09 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: so, 0.9, what should we focus on? | 19:09 |
| wazd | johnx: And I'm not >:D | 19:09 |
| Stskeeps | i would like some better kb layout support, the moblin patches and some of their applets maybe | 19:09 |
| Stskeeps | fixing the jffs images (i just saw the pinning upgrade in action) | 19:09 |
| johnx | I'm not sure how far I'll get but I'd like to make a concerted push towards adopting Ubuntu's hildon-desktop patches | 19:10 |
| Stskeeps | yeah. they are those im talking about | 19:10 |
| Stskeeps | how is zaurus going, still tslib issues? | 19:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, make it not suck, duh. | 19:10 |
| johnx | yeah. it works great (as well as can be expected in 64MB of RAM) with the Xfbdev binary from Angstrom | 19:10 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: you should try 0.8 .. it is quite nice :P | 19:11 |
| johnx | I *know* it will turn out to be some dumb mistake on my part | 19:11 |
| Macer | holy shit the damn south park after the election is so damn funny | 19:11 |
| Macer | sarah palin is like a british thief :) | 19:11 |
| Stskeeps | i will give a cookie to whoever tells me how to redirect vagalume output to esd, over ip. :P | 19:12 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: saw that nikolajhendel is mailing me a 770 for mer devel? | 19:12 |
| johnx | yup. sounds good :) | 19:13 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, now maybe i can see how much of a sardine can it is, for mer :P | 19:13 |
| johnx | and AFB is getting one too from someone else | 19:13 |
| johnx | and I keep looking at those teklogix psion netbooks ... | 19:14 |
| Stskeeps | think i'm giving it to the fiancee once it runs mer, for live user testing.. | 19:14 |
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| johnx | web surfing in 64MB of RAM is not so awesome :/ | 19:14 |
| Stskeeps | (yes, i am a horrible horrible person) | 19:14 |
| Stskeeps | no, but on the other hand if it can rdesktop to a windows vm.. | 19:14 |
| Stskeeps | how is the 770 size-wise compared to the n800 anyway | 19:16 |
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| johnx | bigger when it's in that case/jacket thing IIRC | 19:16 |
| Stskeeps | mm | 19:17 |
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| johnx | dpatch looks kind of awesome | 19:21 |
| * qwerty12 prefers quilt | 19:21 | |
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| johnx | does quilt have something similar to dpatch-edit-patch? | 19:21 |
| qwerty12 | dpatch in sbox messed me around badly, dunno if it's because my permissions in /tmp may be odd | 19:21 |
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| pupnik | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GIoP7V6U-aQ New 3D demos running on the Pandora | 19:22 |
| qwerty12 | With quilt, it's "quilt new <nameofpatch>; quilt add <name of file to be patched>; quilt refresh" | 19:22 |
| Stskeeps | pupnik: which is probably just a beagleboard inside.. :P | 19:23 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, :P | 19:23 |
| pupnik | oops | 19:23 |
| pupnik | http://www.openpandora.de/blog.php | 19:24 |
| johnx | pupnik, yup. I was talking to DJW when he was about to make those | 19:24 |
| pupnik | cool | 19:24 |
| Stskeeps | then again, if it -was- just a beagleboard inside and a lcd and keypads, and a casing, and battery | 19:24 |
| Stskeeps | i would buy it. | 19:24 |
| pupnik | i hope they dont dither about kbd layout | 19:24 |
| pupnik | shipping march maybe? | 19:24 |
| johnx | sigh | 19:24 |
| johnx | maybe | 19:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 19:25 |
| johnx | getting closer to the RX51 now...but I have this funny feeling the RX51 will be a little more expensive than an N810WE... | 19:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Shipping never | 19:25 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, sooo...bets on the RX51 price? | 19:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, discount code. | 19:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~$500 +/- $50 | 19:26 |
| Stskeeps | how much are the discounts usually anyway? | 19:26 |
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| pupnik | we better get hw accel video encoding from HD camera | 19:26 |
| Stskeeps | not that i expect i would get one, due to my radical views and thundering talks.. | 19:26 |
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| pupnik | nokia needs to deliver a wallop on the features front to drive sales during recession | 19:26 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, funny cause the N96 goes for more with lesser hardware ... | 19:27 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, but n96 is a phone | 19:27 |
| johnx | :) | 19:27 |
| johnx | hey rm_you_ | 19:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Exactly as Stskeeps says. | 19:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | The N97 is easily gonna run $700 | 19:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | With lesser hardware | 19:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | But it's a phone. | 19:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hell, the N96 is arguably lesser hardware than the N810. | 19:28 |
| Corsac | erf, n85 is not yet really available that they release an n86 | 19:28 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, if it runs much less than $600 I'll be surprised | 19:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, about %60 | 19:30 |
| Jaffa | This quilt discussion reminds me that I have to look at migrating mud to quilt for patch mgmt | 19:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Both Stskeeps and johnx are assured discount codes. :P | 19:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, I can't imagine them pricing it much over $600 | 19:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | They'll be right out of the market. | 19:30 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: then again, it is not healthy for the mer project we push our n800s away from daily usage ;) | 19:30 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, unless it's intended to fit in with the rest of the N-Series line finally | 19:30 |
| Macer | the n96 was a step backwards | 19:31 |
| * Macer hugs his n95 | 19:31 | |
| Macer | wonder why they got rid of the 3d accel in the n96 | 19:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Dual ARM9s | 19:32 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: give your discount RX-51s away and use your N800s for mer all the time | 19:32 |
| johnx | eh | 19:32 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: hehe | 19:32 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: or do the sane thing.. make your gf a Mer user and use it as cheap testing | 19:33 |
| johnx | time will tell on prices I guess...but they bump the price quite a bit every time... | 19:33 |
| Macer | n810we would be awesome if wimax actually existed anywhere but baltimore | 19:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, $379, $400, $469 | 19:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | More than $100? | 19:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Still, what you _you_ care? Discount code. . . . | 19:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | :P | 19:34 |
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| johnx | here's why I care: if the N900 attracted *only* people of the consumer variety and none or very few of the linux hacker/dev variety thins will not be awesome from a 3rd party software perspective | 19:36 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Meh, they don't attract that many people initially anyway | 19:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Then we get major price drops and people come pouring in. | 19:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nothing new or different | 19:38 |
| Stskeeps | i have had normal people wanting a tablet, which scared me | 19:38 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Besides, Nokia knows what they're about and they know an exorbitant price wont work. | 19:38 |
| Stskeeps | cos they dont want to take their laptop to bed or take out the laptp for relaxing purposes | 19:38 |
| Macer | the west wing where they shut down the government because of the budget is a riot | 19:39 |
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| johnx | GeneralAntilles, I worry about other parts of Nokia pushing the Maemo guys to 'monetize' the tablets...anyways, this is neither here nor there. hopefully by the time the RX51 is out Maemo/Hildon won't be a one vendor distro/platform anymore | 19:39 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I think it's likely they're already running plenty of profits for the tablets, personally. | 19:40 |
| flavioribeiro | hey guys, what do you think about buy a n800 tablet? is it too old? the apps written to n810 runs in n800 devices? | 19:40 |
| johnx | flavioribeiro, I love my n800 and yes, the N810 and N800 run exactly the same software | 19:41 |
| johnx | basically it depends entirely on what you're doing with it whether it's worth it to wait for something new or buy right now | 19:41 |
| * GeneralAntilles sighs. | 19:42 | |
| GeneralAntilles | More 404s in maemo.org/development | 19:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Whoop-de-dooo! | 19:42 |
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| johnx | flavioribeiro, so what are you planning to do with it? | 19:44 |
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| mgedmin | flavioribeiro: I have to say I like my n810 better than I liked my n800 | 20:00 |
| mgedmin | even though I was initially convinced it would be the other way around | 20:00 |
| mgedmin | aesthetically, the n810 is prettier | 20:00 |
| mgedmin | and the hw keyboard is useful | 20:00 |
| mgedmin | functionality-wise, they're about the same | 20:00 |
| mgedmin | one has gps, the other has fm radio and full-size sd slots | 20:00 |
| mgedmin | one is cheaper | 20:01 |
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| johnx | from my perspective: I do find that I use the SD slots quite a bit, especially for transferring from a digital camera while out and about (and also for dev stuff) | 20:01 |
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| mgedmin | finding microsd -> minisd adapters is a bit tricky | 20:05 |
| mgedmin | and I'm not buying minisd cards, thank you very much | 20:05 |
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| flavioribeiro | so johnx, do you think 288 dollars its a good price to buy a n800? | 20:07 |
| johnx | it depends on where you are I guess | 20:07 |
| johnx | it's $220 for an N810 in the US right now | 20:07 |
| mgedmin | didn't I see a n810 recently for a similar price? | 20:07 |
| mgedmin | oh, even lower | 20:07 |
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| mgedmin | $269.99 on amazon | 20:08 |
| mgedmin | I'd say 288 is too much for a n800, unless you really prefer the n800 to the n810 | 20:08 |
| flavioribeiro | hm.. | 20:08 |
| flavioribeiro | im in brazil | 20:09 |
| mgedmin | ah | 20:09 |
| mgedmin | let me guess, amazon won't ship there | 20:09 |
| * mgedmin is in lithuania | 20:09 | |
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| flavioribeiro | no no, its a friend of mine thats selling the n800 for 650 reais | 20:09 |
| flavioribeiro | 650,00 Brazil reais = 288,50445 U.S. dollars | 20:09 |
| johnx | what is the normal price in Brazil for the N800 and N810? | 20:09 |
| flavioribeiro | n810 is not being sold here | 20:10 |
| mgedmin | "priceless" ;) | 20:10 |
| flavioribeiro | just n800, per 799,90 reais | 20:10 |
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| flavioribeiro | about 350 dollars | 20:11 |
| johnx | is there a way for you to buy it from the US? | 20:11 |
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| flavioribeiro | i have a friend thats living in us, but if i buy my friend's n800 i could divide the payments in 2 or maybe 3 months | 20:13 |
| johnx | what do you plan to use it for? | 20:13 |
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| flavioribeiro | learning more about embedded linux, maybe try to install mamona and use the wi-fi connection to voip calls... canola to listen some songs at the bus | 20:14 |
| johnx | then you'll probably be happy with an N800 | 20:15 |
| flavioribeiro | and why not make small apps in python to remember my activities at my routine | 20:15 |
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| * Stskeeps ponders if mamona is still active | 20:17 | |
| flavioribeiro | i saw n97 cellphone thats almost released by nokia, do you think n97 can make nokia discontinue the tablets division or not? | 20:17 |
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| johnx | flavioribeiro, they're definitely continuing both :) | 20:17 |
| flavioribeiro | good, there's any rumor of a new tablet? | 20:18 |
| johnx | Nokia will release the next tablet sometime this year, probably sometime in the summer | 20:18 |
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| oli | johnx: something new, or just improved 8*0? | 20:22 |
| timeless | jeremiah: still alive? | 20:22 |
| johnx | oli, something new | 20:22 |
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| oli | johnx: what else can they put into tablet? there will be 2mpx (or more) cam - for sure | 20:23 |
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| * GeneralAntilles sighs http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=264906&postcount=28 | 20:23 | |
| johnx | oli, most of the info is linked from here: http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_roadmap/Fremantle#Fremantle_timeline | 20:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | oli, HD camera. | 20:24 |
| johnx | such a loaded term... | 20:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, it means what it says. | 20:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | It records 720p | 20:25 |
| johnx | in this case we know what's happening...but "HD cam" could mean it takes 1280x720 stills or that it records 1920x1200 movies | 20:25 |
| johnx | I was just commenting on the term...nothing more | 20:26 |
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| GeneralAntilles | It records 720p, according to the code I've poked around in. | 20:26 |
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| derf | If the image quality is as bad as the current camera, it might as well be 240p. | 20:26 |
| johnx | I'm thinking they'll buy real sensors this time instead of just raiding the parts pile | 20:27 |
| timeless | it isn't as bad as the current camera | 20:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | derf, image quality was one of the things they were focusing one. | 20:27 |
| timeless | although, the nice thing about low expectations | 20:27 |
| timeless | we should be able to do better than last time :) | 20:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | I've got two model numbers if you want to correlate them to other devices and see what their quality is, though. | 20:27 |
| derf | Yeah... it wouldn't take much to be an improvement. | 20:27 |
| timeless | derf: no promises | 20:28 |
| johnx | the N800 kinda reminds me of the 1st gen Mazda RX-7...a neat concept made out of spare parts | 20:28 |
| timeless | but i'm hoping for at least VGA quality | 20:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | MT9T012 or ET8EK8 | 20:28 |
| johnx | timeless, 16 colors or 256 :> | 20:28 |
| timeless | i'm hoping for 256 | 20:28 |
| timeless | but maybe it'll be grayscale? :) | 20:29 |
| johnx | heh...or sepia? | 20:29 |
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| Stskeeps | sepia would be a little streampunk.. | 20:30 |
| Stskeeps | er, steampunk | 20:30 |
| johnx | ...streampunks in a van down by the river... | 20:30 |
| * johnx reads about quilt | 20:31 | |
| wazd | my brain is working again, thanks to World of Goo ) | 20:31 |
| thopiekar | wazd: demo? | 20:31 |
| timeless | actually | 20:31 |
| timeless | i just tried | 20:31 |
| timeless | and i've decided i want to downplay your expectations | 20:32 |
| timeless | i just hope that opening the camera will | 20:32 |
| timeless | 1. open the camera | 20:32 |
| timeless | 2. show something that isn't a solid black box | 20:32 |
| wazd | thopiekar: Actually I stole it :( | 20:32 |
| timeless | that's what i got :) | 20:32 |
| thopiekar | wazd: hehe me too.. | 20:32 |
| wazd | thopiekar: but it worth 20 bucks for sure | 20:32 |
| wazd | thopiekar: I like graphics and music very much) | 20:33 |
| thopiekar | wazd: true | 20:33 |
| timeless | i pretend to work on the browser | 20:33 |
| timeless | oops | 20:33 |
| wazd | thopiekar: too bad that I can't play too much cause of touchpad :) This game needs wacom or good mouse :) | 20:34 |
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| Stskeeps | timeless pretends? :o | 20:34 |
| timeless | well, i wave to the browser people, answer browser qustions | 20:34 |
| thopiekar | but the best for brain train is "brain challange" of ngage.. I've got all games cracked^^ | 20:35 |
| timeless | make the other browser people happy | 20:35 |
| thopiekar | It isn't very difficult.. | 20:35 |
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| RST38h | urgh | 20:36 |
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| RST38h | that was bad | 20:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | You know what might get people developing for Maemo? | 20:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | If the documentation didn't suck totally half the time and 404 the other half. | 20:37 |
| RST38h | General: Tell us something new =( | 20:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | I wonder if moving to Forum Nokia will make it better or worse | 20:38 |
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| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: New documentation is coming and it is a lot better. | 20:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Better not be anymore PDF-only releases, though. | 20:38 |
| johnx | hmmm...something new...You know what might get people developing for Maemo? free Pizza and beer. | 20:38 |
| X-Fade | It is html and PDF. | 20:38 |
| johnx | after all, PDF is just an archive format extracted with pdftohtml :) | 20:39 |
| X-Fade | Documentation is now created in Latex :) | 20:39 |
| johnx | very cool | 20:40 |
| * RST38h is really afraid now | 20:40 | |
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| wazd | GeneralAntilles: what might get people developing for Maemo?) | 20:42 |
| johnx | wazd, i think we agreed free pizza and beer is the best incentive | 20:42 |
| timeless | gan: so... I'm going to add nitro/crash-reporter to the list of localized packages | 20:42 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: free clothes, - tshirts! | 20:43 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:43 |
| Stskeeps | (a way to attract student developers) | 20:43 |
| johnx | heh...anything that saves geeks time from doing laundry/feeding themselves/getting drunk | 20:43 |
| wazd | johnx: aw, if pizza and beer then count me xC | 20:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Is NITRO in a useful repo yet? | 20:44 |
| wazd | xD | 20:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | and does it actually work? | 20:44 |
| RST38h | ability to make money from their projects will get people coding | 20:44 |
| * Stskeeps watches b-mans installer install | 20:44 | |
| qwerty12-mer | GeneralAntilles, some nokia repo with display name of Crash Reporter | 20:45 |
| timeless | gan: well | 20:45 |
| timeless | it doesn't work in x86 for a bunch of reasons | 20:45 |
| timeless | i'm about to file a bug about one of them | 20:45 |
| timeless | and it probably wouldn't work in Mer-armel unless the kernel is built w/ a certain hack | 20:45 |
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| GeneralAntilles | It's in the SDK repo, of course. | 20:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | So they expect people to reboot-loop their tablets to help them collect crash reports. | 20:51 |
| RST38h | wazd: I am being spammed by somebody offering 1000 m^2 of A-class office space at Tverskaya | 20:51 |
| RST38h | wazd: "only" $900/m^2 a year to lease. Is this what "crisis" means? =) | 20:52 |
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| timeless | gan: yeah well um | 20:53 |
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| timeless | he thought it was in extras | 20:53 |
| * timeless shrugs | 20:53 | |
| timeless | i grabbed it from the internal repo | 20:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol? | 20:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, sorry, I forgot I surrounded the grocery store with landmines. | 20:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Good luck getting the sugar. | 20:54 |
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| timeless | awww | 20:55 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, 900$ is pretty cheap :) | 20:56 |
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| * qwerty12-mer stays away from grocery stores in SPB, FL | 20:56 | |
| wazd | RST38h: A-class office space in my house (Valovaya st.) costs bout the same | 20:57 |
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| wazd | RST38h: But it's sadovoye koltso on the other hand) | 20:57 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Should I lease it for $900k/year? :) | 20:59 |
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| * RST38h will probably just go with that Viagra spam instead... | 21:01 | |
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| timeless | gan, ok https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=4124 | 21:05 |
| timeless | that should cover the kernel stupidity | 21:05 |
| wazd | RST38h: why not?) | 21:05 |
| timeless | there's enough info there to work around the lame hack they're using | 21:05 |
| RST38h | wazd: Can I claim lack of funds? =) | 21:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hum, Ovi Store for Maemo. | 21:06 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: whwhawha? | 21:06 |
| wazd | btw, separate app for store is totally lame | 21:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, pondering, mostly. | 21:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | With Qt that might be more feasible. | 21:07 |
| wazd | store should be web based | 21:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Web on mobile devices is still to irritating and slow | 21:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Both options should be available. | 21:08 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I'd much rather browse applications through h-a-m than Downloads. | 21:08 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: make special styles for different mobiles | 21:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Bleh | 21:09 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: I want to buy an app wherever I am | 21:09 |
| ShadowJK | store as app probably comes from s60 and s40. lets you pay through sms | 21:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, what does that have to do with web or not? | 21:09 |
| RST38h | There is a mess with nokia app stores | 21:09 |
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| RST38h | Let us see: | 21:10 |
| RST38h | 1. There is Nokia NGage | 21:10 |
| RST38h | 2. There is Nokia Download! | 21:10 |
| RST38h | 3. There is upcoming Nokia Ovi store | 21:10 |
| wazd | I want to come to my gf, open her browser, download/buy software I need, sync it to the phone | 21:10 |
| RST38h | Neither #1 nor #2 work well. My guess is that #3 will be as much of a failure | 21:10 |
| ShadowJK | there's the "Catalogs" thing too | 21:11 |
| wazd | Or I can send an sms to her with link to the app she needs for example | 21:11 |
| timeless | tableteer! | 21:11 |
| RST38h | wazd: This is perfectly doable with third party stores | 21:11 |
| ShadowJK | What I really don't want is "sync it to the phone" :-) | 21:11 |
| wazd | RST38h: yep, cause the're webbased) | 21:11 |
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| GeneralAntilles | wazd, why would that require being _web-only_? | 21:11 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Why not have both? | 21:12 |
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| GeneralAntilles | So you have the convenience of web | 21:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | and the non-suck of native. | 21:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just like Downloads and Application Manager. | 21:12 |
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| slonopotamus | hehe | 21:12 |
| timeless | hey | 21:12 |
| lcuk | because most apps come alive when you connect them into a network | 21:12 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: app should be installed | 21:12 |
| timeless | how much does apple take as a cut from iTunes store sales? | 21:12 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: and it should be approved | 21:13 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: this crap stops platform developing | 21:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, I'm still not understanding why web-only is a requirement. | 21:13 |
| ShadowJK | oh hey, there's "Nokia Software Market" too | 21:13 |
| slonopotamus | so, hot'n'fresh gentoo-with-x11-on-n8x0 docs! http://slonopotamus.org/gentoo-on-n8x0#step_4_x11 | 21:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless, 30%? | 21:14 |
| ShadowJK | actually, this "Catalogs" app that was preinstalled on my E70 seems to be a frontend program to many stores, including some WB and EA store | 21:14 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, how's openoffice? | 21:14 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: well, if app-store will give me web link to the app then I don't mind, it's just additional work | 21:14 |
| lcuk | installing apps by a single fiddly one liner is not going to cut it in todays consumer market | 21:14 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, wifi & bt first | 21:15 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, just kidding. congrats on the release :) | 21:15 |
| lcuk | they expect a catalogue with pictures and descriptions and reviews and ratings | 21:15 |
| lcuk | like maemo.org/downloads, but directly on the device and slick | 21:15 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, i know :) wait a bit, i'll have it | 21:15 |
| ShadowJK | iirc you can click on things on maemo downloads and it installs on the device? | 21:16 |
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| X-Fade | Mobile (bar)codes would make more sense when we have a HD cam? | 21:17 |
| X-Fade | At least you wouldn't have to type the url? :) | 21:17 |
| lcuk | X-Fade, technically the barcode database can sit locally for lookups and checks | 21:17 |
| lcuk | but the mobile site should link with stores and use that code in numerous places | 21:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, more importantly, a camera where you can see what you're taking a picture of. ;) | 21:17 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: And one that has focus? | 21:17 |
| ShadowJK | hm | 21:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's a chip for that in the kernel. | 21:18 |
| lcuk | barcodes arent that bad to scan though | 21:18 |
| ShadowJK | am I the only one who's never downloaded a program for cellphone/tablet on a computer, always on the device itself? :-) | 21:18 |
| Stskeeps | ShadowJK: you have been blessed with sane data plan.. | 21:18 |
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| ShadowJK | Maybe also because if I was in front of a computer I'd use software on the computer | 21:19 |
| ShadowJK | and whenever I've needed software on the cellphone it's been because I haven't had access to a computer | 21:19 |
| ShadowJK | and then I've just downloaded what I needed | 21:19 |
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| guysoft42 | hey, my fn buttion stoped working on my N810. i am using the newest maemo system. and i think it stoped due to an upgrade, what can i do? | 21:25 |
| ShadowJK | btw, the biggest reason why you'd want to have it web-based: sane resume download support | 21:27 |
| ShadowJK | All these random apps always fuck it up :-) | 21:27 |
| Stskeeps | guysoft42: you were using him-hebrew or something weren't you? | 21:27 |
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| guysoft42 | Stskeeps, yes, that package did not upgrade.. | 21:27 |
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| tourett_ | http://change.pennergame.de/change_please/2520711/ | 21:28 |
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| Stskeeps | guysoft42: possibly your xkb layout that screwed up then.. fn is a bit of a strange creature on tablets | 21:28 |
| guysoft42 | Stskeeps, is there a way to reset it? | 21:28 |
| * timeless grumbles | 21:29 | |
| timeless | i can't find crash reporter anywhere | 21:29 |
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| Stskeeps | the invisible product | 21:29 |
| timeless | i think crash-reporter won't appear until they fix the throbber | 21:29 |
| timeless | we tried to fix it a few hours ago | 21:29 |
| timeless | i think i was supposed to wait for the next sdk sync | 21:29 |
| timeless | brb | 21:29 |
| Stskeeps | guysoft42: not sure | 21:30 |
| Stskeeps | easiest way is to start again from a fresh reflash i gues | 21:30 |
| Stskeeps | s | 21:30 |
| guysoft42 | Stskeeps, not for me, i have a lot of data here | 21:30 |
| guysoft42 | Stskeeps, and it won't mean it will go away.. | 21:31 |
| guysoft42 | Stskeeps, how can i have a look to see what is worng.. isn't it connected to xmodmap or something? | 21:31 |
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| Stskeeps | i didn't look closely at him-hebrew, but it is XKB related.. maybe there is a setxkb* thing | 21:32 |
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| * Stskeeps wonders if it is bad forum manner to have a thread per release | 21:33 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, there are a number of different schools of thought. ;) | 21:34 |
| Stskeeps | well, i usually justify it to myself by attaching some kind of discussion piece.. not a very flammatory one this time around though | 21:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Most people would say new thread per, anyway. | 21:36 |
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| johnx | I vote new thread = new release | 21:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | So if I start a 0.9 thread you have to release? :P | 21:38 |
| johnx | it's too hard to figure out what's what without a threaded forum otherwise | 21:38 |
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| johnx | GeneralAntilles, yeah. I'll release. then you'll see why up to now Stskeeps is the one who releases :P | 21:38 |
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| * johnx sleeps | 21:40 | |
| guysoft42 | Stskeeps, ok.. i tried as a test to remove the hebrew package, and its still not working | 21:41 |
| guysoft42 | and i did a reboot.. | 21:41 |
| rm_you_ | night johnx | 21:41 |
| *** rm_you_ is now known as rm_you | 21:41 | |
| johnx | 'night rm_you. catch you tomorrow maybe | 21:41 |
| rm_you | :) | 21:41 |
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| guysoft42 | i would have posted this at tablet talks, but i don't seem to be getting my activation e-mail | 21:42 |
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| guysoft42 | Stskeeps, ok um, solved it.. but i am not sure how - when i installed back the hebrew is started working | 21:43 |
| RST38h | rm_me | 21:44 |
| rm_you | indeed. | 21:45 |
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| lcuk | i love bacon, but this is a bit ott: http://www.lolpix.com/pictures/12/Funny_Pictures_487.htm | 21:49 |
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| Proteous | there's a lot of muscle definition on that arm, totaly doesn't look like he/she eats lots of bacon | 21:51 |
| Proteous | maybe that's a leg | 21:51 |
| Proteous | who knows | 21:51 |
| rm_you | O_o | 21:51 |
| lcuk | muscle definition? i didnt get past the fat | 21:51 |
| Proteous | I was being sarcastic | 21:51 |
| lcuk | maybe its a pig.. | 21:51 |
| lcuk | ello rm_you | 21:52 |
| rm_you | hey lcuk, luck^ | 21:52 |
| rm_you | you guys need to duel it out | 21:52 |
| lcuk | not really, i know where i stand | 21:53 |
| Proteous | right next to the bacon, we know | 21:53 |
| * lcuk is knackered totally today | 21:53 | |
| * X-Fade too | 21:54 | |
| lcuk | hiya X-Fade properly now lol, how was your vacation | 21:55 |
| X-Fade | Hi lcuk. It was great. | 21:56 |
| X-Fade | But the backlog isn't ;) | 21:56 |
| lcuk | heh yeah, i had a minor emergency :P | 21:56 |
| lcuk | but ive decided to go to the source of the problem for next time | 21:56 |
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| X-Fade | lcuk: Minor emergency? | 21:57 |
| X-Fade | Deleted your svn repo? :) | 21:57 |
| lcuk | yeah slashdot syndication sent flat text over and it go merged with the url | 21:57 |
| lcuk | im gonna send a note to taco before i make anotherp osting and explain the problem | 21:57 |
| luke-jr | X-Fade: that is one benefit of Bazaar/git/darcs/etc :p | 21:58 |
| luke-jr | everyone has a backup | 21:58 |
| X-Fade | luke-jr: That is what we have git.maemo.org for ;) | 21:58 |
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| lcuk | does git allow a subset of users to access the repo only, ie if i wanted a small cleanup phase before something went public | 21:59 |
| lcuk | but needed to enlist some help | 21:59 |
| luke-jr | I dont' know about git, but bazaar is quite handy | 21:59 |
| lcuk | X-Fade, i'm guessing you didnt see the latest video then did you :D | 22:00 |
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| luke-jr | with bazaar, you'd just make a local branch, push it somewhere public for help, then push to mainline | 22:00 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: No? url? :) | 22:00 |
| lcuk | luke-jr, i have local branches already, ill have to set something up | 22:00 |
| lcuk | i dont want the code public until im ready :) | 22:00 |
| luke-jr | lcuk: with bazaar, it's simply "bzr push lp:~user/projectname/branchname" | 22:01 |
| lcuk | x-fade, its a proof of concept thats grown stronger this week :) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMXp0Dg_UaY | 22:01 |
| lcuk | luke-jr, but thats public you just said that | 22:01 |
| luke-jr | yeah | 22:01 |
| lcuk | thats not what i want | 22:01 |
| * lcuk wants to stay in his cathederal whilst hes putting the things together | 22:01 | |
| wazd | lcuk: I already know this link by heart I think :D | 22:03 |
| lcuk | lol wazd :) better than me then | 22:03 |
| lcuk | there will be a new one to remember soon ;) | 22:04 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: Impressive! | 22:04 |
| lcuk | x-fade :) yeah i thought so myself, this is a little bit later and a bit more is in that is recognisable: http://liqbase.net/liq.20090214_130409.lib.scr.png | 22:04 |
| lcuk | and the calendar actually has real dates and scrolls and stuff as well now :$ | 22:04 |
| lcuk | and zooming onto images and stuff is so fluid and natural | 22:05 |
| wazd | lcuk: you definitely need to buy pair of jeans, nike shoes and black polo :D | 22:06 |
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| thopiekar | hey X-Fade I wanted to upload some packages to extras and I have to upload the .changes-files first.. but the web-interface says that the file(s) are not valid.. | 22:06 |
| X-Fade | thopiekar: Well the web-interface is a perfect application and doesn't lie :D | 22:07 |
| wazd | lcuk: cause liqbase is so unpresedented extraordinary gorgeous, best release ever :) | 22:07 |
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| X-Fade | thopiekar: I'll check what's up.. | 22:07 |
| thopiekar | but the packages and the .changes are made with dpkg-bp -rfakeroot... | 22:07 |
| thopiekar | http://rapidshare.com/files/197282256/streamripper_armel_all.tar.gz | 22:07 |
| lcuk | wazd :) its only the start though. im building what *I* think a touch interface should be. i am simply determined enough to go through with it | 22:08 |
| thopiekar | X-Fade: these are all files I used to build streamripper and it's dependences.. | 22:08 |
| lcuk | thopiekar, does it give a reason why its rejected it | 22:09 |
| lcuk | "error: not enough bacon" | 22:09 |
| thopiekar | File upload error. You didn't upload a valid .changes file. | 22:10 |
| jeremiah | That is always the reason for error - not enough bacon. | 22:10 |
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| lcuk | heh jeremiah :D hi by the way, good to see we share common ground | 22:10 |
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| lcuk | did you just see the link up there ^^^ to youtube | 22:11 |
| jeremiah | lcuk: A man who like bacon is a good man. :) | 22:11 |
| jeremiah | No, I missed that, can you pass it my way again. | 22:11 |
| lcuk | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMXp0Dg_UaY | 22:11 |
| jeremiah | I saw that it said "proof of concept" but I didn't know about what . . . | 22:11 |
| jeremiah | ah there it is | 22:11 |
| X-Fade | thopiekar: There is a , in your email address? | 22:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | jeremiah, just, fyi, -community usually isn't a very effective way to get to Nokia. :\ | 22:12 |
| thopiekar | no just thopiekar at googlemail.com... | 22:12 |
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| X-Fade | thopiekar: Check the changed-by line. | 22:13 |
| jeremiah | GeneralAntilles: Thanks, I wasn't sure where to send that email. | 22:13 |
| jeremiah | What do you recommend? -council? | 22:13 |
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| GeneralAntilles | jeremiah, bugzilla, usually. | 22:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | That, or hunt down Quim and accost him. | 22:13 |
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| jeremiah | Bugzilla it is then. | 22:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | It varies a bit on the issue. | 22:13 |
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| GeneralAntilles | jeremiah, did you see the bug I linked earlier? | 22:14 |
| jeremiah | Quim hunting, a popular pastim | 22:14 |
| jeremiah | e | 22:14 |
| jeremiah | GeneralAntilles: No, I didn't. Bad me. | 22:14 |
| thopiekar | X-Fade: what do you mean with the changed-by line? | 22:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3922 | 22:14 |
| jeremiah | I should be looking at the bugzilla instance more often | 22:14 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, you lose karma if you dont follow up on bugs | 22:14 |
| X-Fade | thopiekar: Changed-By: in your .changes file.. | 22:14 |
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| lcuk | jeremiah, you need a tablet with bugzilla rss feed :D (does one exist?) | 22:14 |
| X-Fade | thopiekar: for stream ripper | 22:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | jeremiah, look at https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=303 and https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=630 if you want some interesting historical context. | 22:16 |
| thopiekar | X-Fade: aaahh I see :) | 22:16 |
| thopiekar | X-Fade: thanks | 22:16 |
| X-Fade | thopiekar: Not sure if that is the problem, but try it out ;) | 22:16 |
| jeremiah | GeneralAntilles: Can we do a crazy find command, like this, find / -name changelog -exec sed 's/integrator/some_one/g' {} \; ? | 22:16 |
| X-Fade | thopiekar: You might want to look at a proper Section too. | 22:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | jeremiah, http://www.octofish.net/bugjar/ is good for tracking b.m.o if you don't want to watch for all bug changes. | 22:17 |
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| lcuk | why dont all the actually people employed around maemo actually sit in some big control centre? | 22:18 |
| jeremiah | Sweet, good stuff GeneralAntilles, if that is your real name. | 22:18 |
| lcuk | that way you could all share data | 22:18 |
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| jeremiah | lcuk: We do! | 22:18 |
| jeremiah | It is called "Planet Earth." | 22:18 |
| X-Fade | jeremiah: I thought it was the collective? | 22:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | jeremiah, http://maemo.org/profile/view/generalantilles/ ;) | 22:18 |
| Meiz_n810 | jeremiah: where's that? | 22:19 |
| jeremiah | No! We're an anarcho syndicalist commune! | 22:19 |
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| lcuk | BUG | 22:19 |
| jeremiah | Meiz_n810: To the left of Mars. :) | 22:19 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, you have been given ratings for thumbing up jeremiah twice | 22:20 |
| jeremiah | GeneralAntilles: You have some serious karma dude. :) | 22:20 |
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| lcuk | jeremiah, you should only have been thumbed by GeneralAntilles | 22:20 |
| lcuk | once | 22:20 |
| qwerty12-mer | Meiz_n810, around? | 22:20 |
| X-Fade | jeremiah: Keep filing bugs and up your karma :) | 22:20 |
| Meiz_n810 | qwerty12-mer: here | 22:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Bug filing is great for karma whoring. | 22:20 |
| * lcuk is not a whore though :P | 22:21 | |
| jeremiah | I am a karma whore, and I am not ashamed. | 22:21 |
| qwerty12-mer | Meiz_n810, I've sorted the starting problems with my mer powerlaunch port, wanna test? | 22:21 |
| * qwerty12-mer is a karma whore. | 22:21 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Blogs can be pretty good, too, if you know how to say what people want to hear. ;) | 22:21 |
| jeremiah | lcuk: I am having trouble playing the YouTube stuff, but is that a port of Qt you are working on? | 22:21 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lcuk's infernal machine | 22:22 |
| lcuk | jeremiah, :) no, qt runs too slowly | 22:22 |
| jeremiah | Had to switch OS to get youtube to co-operate. | 22:22 |
| Meiz_n810 | qwerty12-mer: um, maybe not today, i wanna sleep now. tomorrow, ok? | 22:22 |
| qwerty12-mer | heh, fair enough :D | 22:22 |
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| Meiz_n810 | PING | 22:23 |
| Stskeeps | http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=264958 <- Mer 0.8 | 22:23 |
| Meiz_n810 | ~PING | 22:23 |
| MERbot | ->PONG. | 22:23 |
| infobot | ~pong | 22:23 |
| jeremiah | lcuk: Impressive. | 22:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, does this mean I have to blog now? :( | 22:23 |
| lcuk | jeremiah, :) it is gonna have all my existing liqbase applications in soon, heres later progress http://liqbase.net/liq.20090214_130409.lib.scr.png | 22:24 |
| qwerty12-mer | Stskeeps, gonna upload powerlaunch to the builder, inclusion in 0.9? *grin* | 22:24 |
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| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: think so | 22:24 |
| lcuk | (the sketches and images zoom in the same way and lead to apps on the data) | 22:24 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12-mer: hehe, yeah | 22:24 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, contrats :D at this rate we should be on version 3.5 by june! | 22:25 |
| lcuk | congrats even | 22:25 |
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| * qwerty12-mer wonders why dch in mer is using my hostname from maemo | 22:27 | |
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| MaceN800 | hi | 22:35 |
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| MaceN800 | have to work on my fbsd servers more | 22:35 |
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| X-Fade | Spamming like mad... Complaints -> dneary ;) | 22:41 |
| dneary | X-Fade: That's why my email address is up there :) | 22:42 |
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| X-Fade | Ok, I'm out of here. Good night everybody. | 22:46 |
| Mek | am I missing something, or do those referendum mails don't mention how/where/when to actually vote? | 22:46 |
| RST38h | http://www.pcmag.com/article2/0%2C2817%2C2341032%2C00.asp | 22:47 |
| RST38h | dneary <-- evil spammer indeed | 22:48 |
| wazd | RST38h: second :) | 22:48 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: At least he doesn't seem to sell anything :) | 22:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Spamtastic! | 22:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Later, X-Fade. | 22:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Welcome back. :) | 22:49 |
| X-Fade | Ehm yeah, really gone now ;) | 22:49 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Who knows? Maybe he is just sneaky at advancing his goals! | 22:49 |
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| * b-man is amazed when his N800 has been running for 5½ hours without using a charger | 22:51 | |
| Stskeeps | ubuntu? | 22:52 |
| b-man | maemo | 22:52 |
| b-man | and ubuntu | 22:52 |
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| * RST38h wonders if ARM manages to push its cpus into any netbooks | 22:52 | |
| dneary | Mek: It's possible | 22:52 |
| b-man | RST38h: eventually ;) | 22:53 |
| aquatix | RST38h: they already did | 22:54 |
| aquatix | there was some 100 EUR netbook here in a toy shop | 22:54 |
| RST38h | aquatix: no, I don't mean obscure chinese stuff | 22:54 |
| aquatix | ah :) | 22:54 |
| RST38h | I mean real devices from the likes of Toshiba | 22:54 |
| fireun | arnt there a couple netbooks that can boot an arm cpu in "lite" mode, or a full cpu when in "desktop" mode? | 22:55 |
| fireun | I thought that was a new trend.... | 22:55 |
| aquatix | that HTC thing? | 22:55 |
| aquatix | quite old already even | 22:56 |
| * fireun shrugs, still only using a 770 here | 22:56 | |
| fireun | I like it oldskool | 22:57 |
| * aquatix is happy with his n810 | 22:57 | |
| aquatix | it's able to play my Invader Zim episodes without transcoding | 22:57 |
| fireun | I'd happily trade my two 770s for an n8xx | 22:57 |
| aquatix | http://www.engadget.com/2009/02/16/arm-debuts-sparrow-multicore-netbook-processor/ | 22:58 |
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| aquatix | RST38h: well, there's the first step :) | 22:58 |
| * Stskeeps adds beagleboard instructions to the mer 0.8 page | 22:58 | |
| Stskeeps | dneary: so, i got 2/3 and 3/3 but not 1/3? :P | 23:00 |
| dneary | Stskeeps: Check your spal | 23:00 |
| dneary | Or it will arrive during the night | 23:00 |
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| Stskeeps | k | 23:02 |
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| dneary | Night! | 23:09 |
| Jaffa | ev'ning | 23:10 |
| Jaffa | dneary: thanks for sorting those | 23:10 |
| dneary | Wasn't easy :) | 23:11 |
| dneary | een a long day | 23:11 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Can I vote tomorrow? Copy & pasting and gmail on a tablet can test your patience :) | 23:12 |
| * rm_you still randomly has http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/rock%20on.mp3 in his winamp playlist | 23:12 | |
| * rm_you prods GeneralAntilles | 23:13 | |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 23:14 |
| dneary | qwerty12_N800: You have all week | 23:14 |
| qwerty12_N800 | dneary: hah, thanks :) | 23:14 |
| herzi | dneary: where can I see my karma? | 23:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=x2mNQp0hhqA | 23:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | rm_you, ^ | 23:14 |
| dneary | herzi: maemo.org/profile | 23:14 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: I'm writing up a council announcement | 23:15 |
| herzi | dneary: I get HTTP:500 error when logging in on maemo org for weeks | 23:15 |
| dneary | herzi: Are you trying http or https, or does it make a difference? | 23:15 |
| Jaffa | herzi: http://maemo.org/profile/view/herzi shouldn't require a logon. | 23:15 |
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| herzi | http errors | 23:15 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps: it's up to the developer if he/she promotes the i386 version of their app. I don't promote x86 versions of my things | 23:16 |
| herzi | https errors, too | 23:16 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: alright | 23:16 |
| qwerty12_N800 | extras-devel has both by default | 23:16 |
| herzi | Jaffa: thanks | 23:17 |
| herzi | dneary: neither work | 23:17 |
| dneary | http://maemo.org/profile/view/herzi/ <- 48 karma | 23:18 |
| herzi | ah | 23:18 |
| Jaffa | Good grief, maemo.org's being slow this evening. | 23:20 |
| dneary | yeah | 23:22 |
| dneary | The server's getting spammed, Niels said | 23:22 |
| dneary | (not by me) | 23:22 |
| dneary | Night | 23:22 |
| * Stskeeps stretches and pours himself a well-deserved glass of wine. | 23:27 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Pff | 23:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | You deserve nothing. | 23:28 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 23:28 |
| b-man | lol | 23:28 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: couple of patches for you.. sec | 23:28 |
| b-man | k | 23:29 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: it is also me and the fiancees two year day together so | 23:29 |
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| * b-man sooo wishes we could somehow reverse-ingener some of beagleboard's 3D drivers for our cpu, too bad it's not yet possible :( | 23:31 | |
| Stskeeps | b-man: yeah, well, that ship has sailed i guess | 23:32 |
| Stskeeps | it is possible, ofcourse, but takes a long time :) | 23:32 |
| timelE61i | jeremiah: how goes it? | 23:32 |
| b-man | > http://groups.google.com/group/beagleboard/browse_thread/thread/44a0c0f5354afaab :) | 23:32 |
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| MaceN800 | yawn | 23:38 |
| Stskeeps | MaceN800: time to try out Mer vmdk :P | 23:38 |
| Stskeeps | oh, right, you did already didn't you? the double application menus :P | 23:38 |
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| MaceN800 | yah | 23:39 |
| MaceN800 | i couldnt stand it. sorry | 23:39 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 23:39 |
| MaceN800 | i'd have lost my mind | 23:39 |
| MaceN800 | it's just one of those things | 23:39 |
| MaceN800 | it was very nice though | 23:41 |
| MaceN800 | i'm sure if i install it in about 6 more months or so it will be on awesome status | 23:41 |
| Stskeeps | i am surprised how much was done 0.7->0.8, heh | 23:41 |
| MaceN800 | did you guys fix the double menus with .8 | 23:42 |
| MaceN800 | ? | 23:42 |
| MaceN800 | :) | 23:42 |
| Stskeeps | no, not yet, i didn't have time to look into that part | 23:42 |
| Stskeeps | was some higher priority issues | 23:42 |
| MaceN800 | well.. maybe .9 ;) | 23:42 |
| MaceN800 | how is the bt support looking? | 23:42 |
| MaceN800 | or do you guys just have people set up bluez? | 23:43 |
| MaceN800 | if you got rid of the double menu (maybe make a logo icon for it too ;) ... had wifi and bt hid working | 23:43 |
| MaceN800 | i'd love it | 23:43 |
| timelE61i | sts: double menus isn't an issue if you install enough bits from diablo ;) | 23:43 |
| timelE61i | Mace: eh? | 23:43 |
| timelE61i | Normal bt worked for me in mer | 23:44 |
| timelE61i | I paired my phone to mer-vmdk | 23:44 |
| Stskeeps | timelE61i: thats scary somewhat | 23:44 |
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| MaceN800 | i didn't try my bluetooth kb | 23:44 |
| MaceN800 | i stopped witht he double menu | 23:44 |
| timelE61i | sTs: best part.. | 23:44 |
| MaceN800 | it was driving me nutty heh | 23:44 |
| timelE61i | I can't use bt from the laptop itself | 23:44 |
| Stskeeps | hah :P | 23:45 |
| timelE61i | Only from mer :) | 23:45 |
| timelE61i | Windows bt stack = disaster | 23:45 |
| MaceN800 | if the bt hid works then i'm fine.. i adhoc to my phone | 23:45 |
| timelE61i | Fwiw, the nokia bt kbd cpl is one of very few things i couldn't install | 23:46 |
| MaceN800 | seriously? | 23:46 |
| MaceN800 | well.. i guess my su8w is out of the question huh? | 23:46 |
| Stskeeps | MaceN800: timeless has been making a mer-diablo frankenstein :P | 23:46 |
| MaceN800 | :) | 23:46 |
| timelE61i | there are pictures of my mer online | 23:46 |
| timelE61i | Mace: so... | 23:46 |
| timelE61i | The cpl is just a cpl | 23:46 |
| timelE61i | Qwerty+i replaced one cpl | 23:47 |
| timelE61i | They're not critical, just ui | 23:47 |
| * timelE61i needs to figure out how image viewer slipped through the cracks | 23:47 | |
| MaceN800 | still irritating tho ;) i'll just hold off installing it until it gets a little more down the line | 23:48 |
| MaceN800 | maybe around .99 or something | 23:48 |
| MaceN800 | heh | 23:48 |
| timelE61i | hey, how does ham decide what's an "application" when it backs up applications? | 23:48 |
| MaceN800 | but it is a very nice looking replacement for maemo | 23:48 |
| MaceN800 | well.. i have to get back to setting up this shell box | 23:49 |
| MaceN800 | fbsd ftw | 23:49 |
| MaceN800 | i wonder if the esxi box can use an external hd as storage | 23:49 |
| timelE61i | We're taking a break from setting up osol | 23:49 |
| timelE61i | (osol is bootable zfs root on a usb disk) | 23:49 |
| MaceN800 | osol? | 23:49 |
| MaceN800 | ah | 23:49 |
| qwerty12_N800 | timelE61i: programs with a section of user/ afaik | 23:50 |
| timelE61i | OpenSolaris2008-11, updated to dev | 23:50 |
| timelE61i | Qwerty: i suspected | 23:50 |
| timelE61i | Unfortunate for me.... | 23:50 |
| oli | anyone using iptablet on N8*0? | 23:50 |
| oli | iptables* | 23:50 |
| timelE61i | I'd have loved to ask ham to back up my installed diablo package list :) | 23:51 |
| Proteous | Mmmmm, ham | 23:51 |
| timelE61i | yeah, i won't eat it | 23:53 |
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| Stskeeps | b-man: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/merinstaller.patch | 23:54 |
| b-man | thanks :) | 23:54 |
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| Macer | solaris any good on x86 | 23:55 |
| Macer | last i remembered it didn't come with gcc :) | 23:55 |
| Macer | but i haven't tried it in a very long time | 23:55 |
| timelE61i | It comes w/ it now | 23:56 |
| timelE61i | I'm happy w/ it | 23:56 |
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