IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2009-02-15

RST38hSts: Why not?00:01
RST38hIt is friendly.00:01
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dick-richardsonI've been looking for my next computing project. I've decided on Mer. Just so I understand, when I install it, it won't be on the internal flash - or can it be?00:15
Stskeepsnot unless you want to be unable to use apt..00:20
ShadowJKwhy is that? insufficient space?00:22
Stskeepsmmap patch for apt needee00:23
dick-richardsonhow much space does it require? I have both east and west US maps downloaded on my n81000:24
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ShadowJKuse another card..00:24
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dick-richardsonI can do that..or just remove the east maps00:24
dick-richardsonhow much space does it take?00:25
Stskeepsit needs to repartition the card so its better to use an external card00:25
ShadowJKrepartitioning means everything on the card being erased00:26
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dick-richardsonthat isn't an issue, everything on the card is backed up via cron script every day00:27
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dick-richardsonofftopic: verizon's the only cell provider in my area and I'm thinking about getting a cell phone. Any recommendations?00:43
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tank-mani recommend verizon since that is your only choice :)00:48
dick-richardsonfor a phone :P00:49
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GeneralAntillesWell, it's Verizon, so "one that doesn't suck" is out the window.00:49
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dick-richardsonLOL...that's what I'm finding00:51
tank-manverizon uses sim cards in phones?00:51
dick-richardsonno, cdma00:51
dick-richardsonotherwise I'd just buy one unlocked off newegg00:52
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dick-richardsonthe omnia wouldn't be bad, but it's WinMo :/00:53
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GAN800Ugh WinMob00:55
GAN800Though, marginally less crippled than other vz phones.00:55
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dick-richardsonscrew it...I'll save myself the monthly fee and keep using dialcentral/gizmo on my tablet00:57
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Macerjust got an ice genie for my k4501:23
Macerthis is really turning into a sickness haha01:23
Macerso far i've dropped like $350 on a barebones box that is $9901:25
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_useranybody gotten google gears to work on the maemo yet?02:04
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_userIs anyone alive, even?02:05
tulkastaldoin order: no and yes02:05
* b-man has google gears installed im microb02:08
b-manallthough i can't remember ware i obtained it :P02:09
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_userSo there's no progress on gears on Maemo?02:14
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_userI was under the (false) impression that it worked out of the box on the n81002:20
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_userI see that this gears issue has been around for about 2 years02:25
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luke-jrMeiz_n810: Diablo is N810?02:31
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gnutonluke-jr: yes02:43
gnutonluke-jr: but you can install diablo also in the n80002:43
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dick-richardsonhow do I remove the bootmenu installed after trying mer?02:46
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_userIf I installed Android on my n810, will it then have google gears?02:50
* timeless looks around for testers02:52
timeless_user: 'it' is ambiguous02:53
timelessthere's actually a gears for microb floating around /somewhere/02:53
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timelesshowever i'm not sure you'll find gears to be as helpful as you like02:54
timelessi suppose it depends on your personal needs02:54
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timelessmy gears offline enabled gmail box is using 300mb of ram02:54
dick-richardsonwould it replace a stand-alone spreadsheet and word processor?02:54
Macerin 2010 they are releasing a new dune movie02:56
Maceri hope it isn't like the 1984 abortion of the book02:56
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tonyyarussoWhich setting do I use in Maemo Mapper to use the internal GPS?03:03
tonyyarusso(Choices: Bluetooth, File Path, GPSD Host)03:03
jaemGPSD should work03:06
jaemor you could provide the device node (/dev/pgps, I believe)03:06
jaemI'm not sure which is better03:06
tonyyarussomaybe it's just getting confused b/c I'm inside.03:08
jaemthat would do it03:08
tonyyarussoIs there a community-maintained database of free WiFi access points, so I could find some and add ones I find?03:13
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* robink lost the URL for the usbserial.ko and pl2303.ko modules for 2.6.21-omap*03:27
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robinkn/m, found it03:41
robinkI'm thinking of reflashing my N810 so I get my modules.dep back.03:44
robinkAnyone have a more elegant solution?03:44
robinkOr even a cruder one that doesn't require reflashing the N81003:45
bef0rdI believe there's an option to only flash kernel, wouldn't that fix it?03:45
robinkDoes flashing the kernel include the kernel modules?03:45
robinkbef0rd: IIRC just flashing the kernel doesn't fix the problem.03:45
infobotmethinks flashing is
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robinkbef0rd: That talks about how to do a complete reflashing.03:47
bef0rdheh, I know, I just wanted to see if it included the parameters to flasher03:47
bef0rdI don't have it atm03:48
robinkbef0rd: The parameter is --flash-only=kernel.03:48
bef0rdIf I send you that file, would it work?03:48
robinkWhat file?03:48
robinkbef0rd: Oh, yeah, it should work.03:48
robinkbef0rd: ...provided you're also on the latest firmware.03:48
bef0rdok, let me find my charger03:48
bef0rdmm I think so03:48
robinkbef0rd: Thanks :-)03:48
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bef0rdrobink,  5.2008.43-703:52
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robinkbef0rd: Wow03:53
robinkbef0rd: I think I have that version (pushed via SSU), but I never flashed with it.03:53
robinkbef0rd: Let's give it a try.03:53
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bef0rdrobink, where is that file? heh03:58
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robinkbef0rd: /lib/modules/current04:00
bef0rdrobink, I don't have modules on /lib04:01
robinkbef0rd: !04:01
robinkbef0rd: /mnt/initfs/lib/modules?04:01
bef0rduhm current points to 2.6.21-omap104:03
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robinkbef0rd: Yes04:03
robinkbef0rd: Either directory is fine.04:03
bef0rdbut there's no modules.dep there :s04:03
bef0rdjust .ko files04:04
robinkbef0rd: That's odd.04:05
robinkbef0rd: Maybe you don't have a modules.dep either.04:05
robinkbef0rd: do an lsmod, see if ipv6 is loaded.04:05
robinkbef0rd: If it's not, you don't have a modules.dep.04:05
bef0rdit's not loaded04:06
robinkNokia's no longer shipping a modules.dep with their kernels.04:06
robinkbef0rd: Did you get the latest firmware over SSU or by flashing?04:06
bef0rdmaybe you can extract it from older firmware files?04:06
robinkbef0rd: Not sure if it'd work, but I suppose it's an option.04:06
bef0rdI flashed it, and then applied an ssu updated04:07
robinkThe SSU updates kill modules.dep.04:07
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bef0rdupdate* yea04:08
robinkThere's an SSU update for DIABLO_5.2008.43-7?04:09
robinkI assumed it had the latest initfs and kernel.04:09
bef0rdwell if the modules.dep is on initfs, can't you just flash initfs?04:10
bef0rdI think there is an option for that04:10
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robinkbef0rd: Hm, that might work.04:26
robinkbef0rd: I could try it, but I don't want to totally break my N810.04:27
luke-jrgnuton: link?04:27
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bef0rdrobink, I don't think that'll happen, if it doesn't boot, well a full flash will fix it :P so just make a back up of your stuff first04:46
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kevin_405anybody here04:46
kevin_405beford looking for help installing python on n80004:50
bef0rdkevin_405, diablo?04:50
kevin_405is there a later one..04:50
kevin_405how to get python the apt-get failes on me04:50
kevin_405unable to lock admin directory /var/lib/dbpkg it says04:51
bef0rdapt-get install python2.504:51
bef0rdYou need to do it as root04:51
kevin_405i did sudo gainroot04:52
bef0rdyou need to close the app manager first04:52
kevin_405i have closed it but some deamon may be running04:52
kevin_405how to make sure04:52
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bef0rdcan you install other applications?04:52
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kevin_405never tried apt-get before04:53
kevin_405i always use the app manager..04:53
kevin_405on this device..04:53
kevin_405Do u know the name of the deamon may be i can kill it04:53
bef0rdkevin_405, wait, your device is on RD mode?04:53
bef0rdif it's not, sudo gainroot does nothing04:53
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bef0rdcould you show me the whole output of apt-get install python2.5-runtime04:54
kevin_405apt-get update also fails04:55
bef0rdtype 'id'04:55
kevin_40513 permission denied04:55
kevin_405could not open lock file /var/lib/apt/list/lock - open04:56
bef0rdoutput of "id", no quotes04:56
kevin_405What is id i dont understand04:56
bef0rdtype id on the term04:56
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kevin_405uid 29999 gid 2999904:57
bef0rdYou are not root yet04:57
bef0rdthat's why apt-get fails04:57
kevin_405is there a password for root04:57
bef0rdNo, the easier method to get root is04:57
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, rootsh is an easy way to get root and it's found here:
kevin_405i have xterm04:58
bef0rdfollow this guide
bef0rdinstall rootsh04:58
bef0rdthen try:04:58
bef0rd$ root04:58
bef0rd# apt-get install python2.5-runtime04:58
bef0rd(you don't need to type the $ or # symbols, those appear on the prompt already)04:59
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kevin_405stuck on waithing for headers05:03
kevin_405ok downloading now05:03
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kevin_405somebody should update the pymaemo website05:04
kevin_405great got it to work05:07
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kevin_405u rock beford05:13
kevin_405i got my sdict-viewer to work05:13
kevin_405Just wat i was looking for05:13
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dphil314finally got maemo sdk installed05:14
dphil314lots of dns weirdness05:14
robinkbef0rd: OK.05:15
dphil314don't like the way it load balances to various ip's, then failed the entire install on the first timeout without any retries05:15
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tonyyarussoHow can I get keys like Alt on my n810?05:19
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timelessso, anyone here using my 0.1.2pre strings and have feedback?05:50
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jaemwe're all doomed06:41
jaemthe US has cyborg spy beetles in the works06:41
fireunthat fly06:41
jaemI want one :P06:41
jaemand yes06:41
jaemand they can carry cameras06:41
jaemI wonder how they're price compares with a decent R/C helicopter...06:42
infobotjaem meant: I wonder how their price compares with a decent R/C helicopter...06:42
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sandmanAnyone here have experience with Android running on the Nokia n810?06:45
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timelessi'm pretty sure it isn't #maemo :). but yes people have mentioned it. personally i don't feel it's topical06:54
tonyyarussoHow can I do an Alt key on my N810?06:58
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sandmanDoes anyone know if it's true that Android on the n810 doesn't have sound?08:38
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tonyyarussocan i make apps installl to the removable memory?  i'm running out of oom.08:40
Meizirkkisandman, android doesn't have sound (yet)08:40
Meizirkkithere's close source components needed for that08:41
sandmanI see.08:41
sandmanAnd those cannot be acquired for the n810?08:42
sandmanWell, it's just sad, anyway. It would seem that the iPhone has multitouch, also, whereas the G1 does not. This is due to some patent BS, from what I understand08:42
sandmanWhich pisses me off. But oh well.08:42
timelesscould you possibly be pissed somewhere else?08:43
timelesswe only support drunken pissers08:43
timelessall other kinds are respectfully asked to piss off :)08:43
sandmanHar har har.08:48
sandmanI just don't like the idea of selling out by purchasing an iPod Touch 32GiB. It is just too damn nice08:48
sandmanBut I'll probably start work immediately on somehow getting Android on it =)08:49
timelessunless you're planning on running maemo/mer on your gphone or ipod, the discussion is fairly off topic08:49
* timeless gets pissed08:49
sandmanThe Apple iPod Touch hardware is so lovely. Particularly just the design of the thing. It reeks of usefulness. But the software on it is balls, imho.08:49
sandmanOh, right. I forgot which channel I was in08:49
RST38hShiny! Shiny!08:49
sandmanI thought I was in #android lol08:49
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timelessplease look before pissing08:50
sandmantimeless: I'll remember that.08:50
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AddisonGreetings all!  :)09:45
udovdhon tablettalk I read about power saving issues for the n81009:46
udovdhrelated to wifi09:46
AddisonHi name that's unpronouncable!  :)09:46
udovdhare these fixed?09:46
udovdhfirst name udo09:46
udovdhrest is surname09:46
udovdhabbreviated of course09:46
AddisonI'm trying to say your name out loud right now, and I'm coming up empty.  :(09:47
udovdhudo? you must be english-speaking then?09:47
udovdhthink of judo09:47
AddisonHow does one say it phenotically (sp?)?09:47
udovdhwithout the 'j'09:47
udovdhthe dutch 'u' is different from the english 'u'09:47
udovdhI don't think english has that u09:48
AddisonOkay, got that part, now how about the "vdh"?09:48
udovdhshort for `van den heuvel`09:48
udovdhthat's my surname09:48
udovdhmeans something like09:48
udovdh`from the hill`09:49
udovdhbut what about the n810 power saving?09:49
AddisonThat wasn't my post.09:50
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AddisonI only post stupid questions that people typically ignore. *lol*09:51
GeneralAntillesudovdh, what "issues"?09:54
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udovdhGeneralAntilles, about wifi using up power is what i read yesterday09:54
udovdhand now about suspend not working well?09:54
udovdhlet me first see that wiki09:54
udovdhempty article?09:54
AddisonQwerty!  How's my favorite big brained intellectual doing tonight?09:55
GeneralAntillesudovdh, your client didn't handle the URL properly09:55
GeneralAntillesClose the parens at the end09:55
udovdhah....! thanks09:56
udovdhhadnt noticed09:56
GeneralAntillesI think I put a redirect in there anyway. . . .09:56
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arty_nameHello. Where can I download key of
arty_nameTo feed it to apt-key...09:58
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udovdhthen the suspending:10:00
udovdhis that working as bad as I read or is there a recent fix?10:00
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GeneralAntillesudovdh, how can you fix something that isn't broken?10:01
udovdhGeneralAntilles, I read about suspend combined with watchdog not working well10:02
GeneralAntillesAh, suspend to RAM/disk.10:02
udovdhI am still discovering the device so I am reading a lot10:02
GeneralAntillesSomebody has a setup that'll frob the watchdog to keep it up.10:02
GeneralAntillesBut, I haven't played with any of it myself.10:03
GeneralAntillesIdeally, you shouldn't need to suspend at all.10:03
GeneralAntillesThese aren't x86 devices, and they use practically no power when idle.10:03
GeneralAntillesSo as long as you don't have something eating CPU in the background, idle is as good as suspended.10:03
RST38hGeneral: In a way, OMAP2 *is* suspended most of the time10:03
GeneralAntillesRST38h, right.10:04
RST38hThe problem with x86 is that due to its historical heritage (platform included), the current x86 designs can't be quickly suspended and unsuspended10:04
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RST38hWhile simpler ARM designs made with battery power in mind do this fairly quickly (milliseconds)10:05
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Traveler4Traveler4 is bunanson10:08
Traveler4Addison, are you there?10:08
AddisonBunason!   Heya!10:09
AddisonI really was hoping you would show!  :D10:09
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AddisonDid you get my private message Traveler4?10:11
Traveler4oh yet10:13
Traveler4i thought you were gone10:13
Traveler4hows life?10:13
AddisonLife's been treating me like a baby treats a diaper.  *lol*  How about you?10:13
AddisonHey first and foremost, I'm really curious about what your profession is.10:14
Traveler4well, i guess i am alright compare to a lot of other people, not much complaint10:14
Traveler4I am a practicing doctor10:14
Traveler4does that help?10:14
Traveler4what are you doing at 3 am in the morning10:15
timelE61igAn: so, jx doesn't like my ham install package?- warnings10:18
AddisonHey, sorry for the long pause.  Had to go grab a few beers.  Yeah, I'm that excited to hear from you!  :)10:18
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AddisonAnyway, can we take this to a private chat?  Do you know how that works?10:18
Traveler4not quite sure10:19
AddisonAre you on
AddisonScroll down, you should see something in red.10:19
Traveler4there is a pub and priv, i guess click the priv? right?10:19
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RST38h...multiple US Army laptops making their way out to unsanctioned trading posts in Pakistan...10:31
RST38h100 more years - and Pakistanis will even learn how to counterfeit these =)10:32
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qwerty12hi Stskeeps10:35
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Stskeepswb johnx10:44
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johnx_hey Stskeeps10:45
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RST38hmoo, johnx, Sts qwerty10:45
* johnx_ stabs his Xfbdev build10:45
qwerty12hi RST38h10:46
johnx_it linked against libts but isnt actually using it :/10:46
StsN800was kb detection added btw?10:46
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qwerty12lcuk2, if around, the reason Meiz got "dpkg (subprocess): unable to execute post-installation script: No such file or directory" is because your postinst is in dos format10:46
johnx_not yet :(10:46
StsN800i need to fix xkbdata as well before generating anyway10:47
johnx_I'm at work right now. I'll try to take a look at it10:47
* lcuk2 has just woke up and is reading stuff, thanks qwerty i hadnt realised it had been through windows10:47
lcuk2but there are other extra files which need adding as well10:48
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lcuk2i'll start with a clean debian folder next time :)10:49
StskeepsMeizirkki: what does lshal | grep keyboard  say on your tablet?10:49
* johnx_ installs HAL on the zaurus10:50
MeizirkkiStskeeps: maemo or Mer10:52
Stskeepsboth if possible10:52
johnx_if it turns up no results could you pastebin the result of lshal?10:53
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johnx_thanks :)10:54
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Stskeepsjohnx_: think we will postpone 0.8 till tomorrow evening, i tested image earlier - its fantastic but xkb and keyboard_avaliable would make it a good release10:55
Stskeeps(enter doesnt work in n8x0 osso xterm atm)10:55
Meizirkkimaemo  ^10:57
johnx_Stskeeps: thanks. :) been kinda swamped in real life last couple days10:58
Stskeepsjohnx_: similar10:58
Stskeepsi haven't been at my laptop to close to 24h10:58
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johnx_I've been at my computer a bit but my mind has been elsewhere...11:00
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MeizirkkiStskeeps: in Mer:
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StsN800ok, and you did not add a fdi file right?11:09
Meizirkkifdi file?11:10
Meizirkkithe enter thing isn't enabled11:11
johnx_hmm...something like lshal | grep -i info.product: | grep -i keyboard11:13
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timelesssts: so... i could probably get you 0.1.2 such that you could pull it into 0.811:13
infobotjohnx_ meant: hmm...something like lshal | grep  info.product: | grep -i keyboard11:13
timelessif you don't mind a couple of rough edges11:14
* timeless is still trying to figure out what to do about something11:15
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Meizirkkijohnx: lshal | grep info.product: | grep -i keyboard gives no output11:16
Meizirkkiin Mer11:16
johnx_ah... nice catch11:17
Stskeepstimeless: i'll add in the beginnings of 0.9 if it's alright, i have already tested most areas so11:17
johnx_a : snuck in11:17
Stskeepsjesus, i need coffee11:17
timelessjohnx/sts/gan/jaffa: so...11:17
timelessjx, my primary customer has complained about the install warning11:18
timelesshe thinks that my string losses too much of the disclaimer11:18
timelessi'm looking for additional opinions11:18
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timelesshe claims that a lawyer probably forced the text upon nokia, and therefore i shouldn't just do away w/ its spirit11:18
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johnx_timeless: yeah. i kinda figured that would be an issue11:18
timelesswell, i'm not under contract to do this work11:19
timelessso i'm not required to translate it to that letter11:19
Stskeepson the other hand if it is a 'replacement' string set..11:19
timelessif the text is used in Mer11:19
timelessor on any device which isn't Nokia issue11:19
timelessit's hard to claim that it makes any sense11:19
johnx_well still. i think it should be clear the warning is from Nokia not from the person who releases the app11:19
Stskeepsheh, i occasionally wonder why the GPL isn't flashed in people's eyes more often11:20
timelesssts: i often wonder why it is flashed where it is flashed11:20
johnx_the way ff3 does it makes sense to me11:20
timelessa lot of windows installers flash it11:20
timelesswhich is stupid11:20
johnx_more info banner than click through11:20
timelessjohnx: the infobar?11:20
timelessyeah, it's so much better than the other ways11:20
Stskeepstimeless: i'm going to patch xkb-data, and Provides: xkbdata btw11:20
timelessthanks thanks!11:21
johnx_glad ubuntu and ff guys could agree on that11:21
timelesscan you fix libsdl* too?11:21
* timeless kicks all of libsdl11:21
johnx_what needs to be fixed about it?11:21
timelessoh, and can you make galago provide libgalago-common?11:21
timelessall of these are conflicts between ubuntu/debian and maemo11:21
timelessmaking it really painful to install stuff11:21
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Stskeepstimeless: that will be longer though :P xkbdata i am touching right now. but - we have enabled Maemo extras per standard in 0.811:22
Stskeepsso people can tell us what things wont install and why11:22
timelessthe other ones to deal w/ are libnsp4-0d/libnss3-d11:22
johnx_that's a big step11:22
Stskeepsjohnx_: it scaringily works most of the time11:22
timelessthose conflict w/ libnspr4/libnss311:22
timelessthe other ones to deal w/ are libnsp4-0d/libnss3-1d11:22
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timelessthat prevents microb from coexisting w/ fennec/thunderbird11:23
timelesswhich is annoying11:23
Stskeepsjohnx_: actually i should have asked qwerty12 to make it an 'disabled' repository, but hey, we might as well try this out and see how much of the apocalypse it brings closer :P11:23
Stskeepsjohnx_: ATI85 works, for instance.11:24
johnx_people won't be able to ask what they should do with mer at least :>11:24
timelesssts: i could give you a dump of my installed packages if you're curious :)11:24
Stskeepstimeless: yeah, i actually am11:24
timelessalright, lemme see if backup works :)11:24
qwerty12Stskeeps, if you want it disabled, I can update the package.11:24
Stskeepsqwerty12: nah, i think this is a good idea really11:25
Stskeepsit will force people who try out mer and at same time develop, to fix their packages to support mer11:25
timelessooh, Backup11:25
timelessWelcome to backup, create a backup11:25
Stskeepsoh dear god11:25
* timeless cries11:25
* timeless goes to get a vpn to fix11:26
timelessNo memory cards available11:26
timelesssts/qwerty: how do i convince Backup i have a memory card? :)11:26
qwerty12I'd bet my balls that the mountpoints are hardcoded and the home directory is hard coded11:26
qwerty12timeless, mount something in /media/mmc2? :>11:26
Stskeepsjohnx_: bizarre occourence the other day.. plugged in my cellphone which can charge through usb..11:26
timelessqwerty: from vmware?11:27
johnx_timeless: mount -o bind /tmp /media/mmc111:27
johnx_see what breaks :>11:27
timelesswired network, eh?11:28
timelesswell, i suppose usb is a wire11:28
Stskeepstimeless: i am confident i would get same result if i plugged it in through usb host on n8x0 :P11:28
Stskeeps(this was on mertop)11:28
timelessjohn: mount complains:11:29
timelessmount: can't find /tmp/media11:29
timelessoh brother11:29
* johnx_ loads the page on his n80011:29
timelessmount didn't complain when i didn't typo11:29
timelessit doesn't help though11:29
timelessall well behaved maemo apps listen to HAL11:29
johnx_hmm.../tmp isnt necessarily the best place...11:30
timelessso the question is how does one tell HAL to lie about device presence?11:30
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johnx_Stskeeps: O_o ... and it just worked?11:31
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Stskeepsjohnx_: yeah, oob11:31
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Stskeepstimeless: btw, xkb-data doesn't seem to Conflicts: with xkbdata, - is it xkbdata that conflicts with xkb-data?11:32
Stskeeps(other way around)11:32
Stskeepsjohnx_: on the other hand it is how it ought to be.11:32
Stskeepsexcept i would have liked my phone to ask if it should charge, act as mass storage, or phone mode :P11:33
timelesswhich thing would i need to check?11:33
Stskeepstimeless: dpkg -s xkbdata i think11:33
timeless-s shows my Dummy package :)11:33
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Stskeepsi'll just conflicts/replaces/provides it in xkb-data11:33
timelessbut part of the problem is they have the same files11:34
timelesssounds good11:34
qwerty12Stskeeps, charging can be disabled/enabled in service menu and if the phone was booted by you then you should get the option :/11:34
timelessi think xkbdata turned out to be less painful than some of the others11:34
timelesssdl is still preventing me from using a large portion of the platform11:34
Stskeepsqwerty12: oh, i just wanted it to charge11:35
Stskeepsqwerty12: not provide a internet conn :P11:35
qwerty12ah :)11:35
* timeless figured11:35
* timeless puzzles11:36
timelesswhy isn't Crash Reporter enabled?11:36
timelessoh brother11:36
timeless"Please insert Memory card"11:36
qwerty12NITRO wants CAL11:36
* timeless kicks eero and team11:37
* lcuk shakes head11:37
timelessqwerty: really?11:37
lcukthat Stskeeps has a dirty mind11:37
timelessthey also can't spell OK11:37
qwerty12timeless, yep, when my version information messed up in cal, I saw it in my syslog that nitro was refusing to start11:37
* timeless wonders how it can be so hard to spell a two letter version11:37
GeneralAntillesThere's a hint. :P11:38
johnx_timeless: 1 in 26^211:38
timelessoh brother11:38
timelessso nitro is eating my cores?11:39
timelessand it doesn't work!?11:39
GeneralAntillesDid it ever get a server to report to?11:39
timelessnitro always uses an external server11:39
timelessamusingly enough11:39
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, yep, the password for it can be found in ~ ...11:40
timelessw/ a 1 hour pull poll11:40
timelessthe directory isn't (or shouldn't be) browsable11:40
timelessand it refuses double writes11:40
timelessinternally we've hit the double write issue a bunch of times11:40
qwerty12It isn't, I've got the message that GET isn't allowed when I've logged in11:40
timelessso um11:41
timelesswhat aprt of nitro is stomping on my core_pattern?11:41
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johnx_anyways, back to work. will be on again when I get home and I'll get this keyboard stuff sorted.11:44
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timelessi can crash Nitro's CPL :)11:47
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* timeless is special11:47
qwerty12I can crash the control panel by having an incomplete desktop file in /usr/share/applications/hildon-control-panel :)11:47
lcukqwerty, im sure lots of things crash if you have incomplete setups.  try removing half of the real car driver and see if he crashes ;)11:49
RST38hlcuk: depends on which half we remove11:49
qwerty12I'll leave that experiment to you odd northerners ;P11:50
RST38hlcuk: lots of things, like genitalia, are unnecessary and even detrimental to the task11:50
lcukit depends as much on which part we remove and how long its been missing for11:50
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lcukif i chopped your legs off whilst you were driving you would probably crash, but if you had no legs to begin with and a specially adapted car then maybe11:50
RST38hbut anyways, config file parser should not crash or let application crash11:51
RST38hqwerty: So, file a bugzilla report =)11:51
timelessi filed a bug report on kdevelop :)11:51
* timeless wonders if they fixed it11:51
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qwerty12RST38h, Yeah, you're right :). I'll make another desktop file later and test in diablo & mer :)11:51
timelessqwerty: so ... help?11:57
timelesshow does one lie w/ hal?11:57
qwerty12No idea, sorry :/11:57
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wazdhola everybody :)12:00
qwerty12hi wazd12:00
wazdlet's hack on Freetunner UI today)12:00
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timelesshey, i'm confused12:03
timelessanyone here have a diablo n800/n810?12:03
timeless(w/ the official english)12:03
timelessoh nice12:04
timelessso, what would you expect to have happen if you clicked [Backup]Backup>Delete, and the item was disabled?12:04
timeless(a) no backup selected12:04
timeless(b) no backups to delete12:05
timeless(c) No memory cards available12:05
Stskeepswazd: hehe, good luck :)12:08
timelessso, no one wants to guess? :)12:08
Stskeepstimeless: normally no backups to delete12:09
timelesssts: normally. does that mean that you're willing to guess some other answer for context Nokia/Maemo/Diablo? :)12:12
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timelessso um12:16
* timeless wants someone who knows how to speak hal12:16
timelesspossible w/ python12:16
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timelessoh brother12:17
timelessbluetooth works in Mer-vmware12:18
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timelessUSB mode is not writable12:20
* timeless wonders what that means12:20
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* timeless frowns12:21
timeless"Not allowed" is such a rude message12:22
aquatix``You do no exist, go away'' is better12:27
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qwerty12Nah, there's no expletive in that12:27
timeless'no' is an amusing typo12:28
timeless'did you mean know'12:28
timeless(you meant not, but....)12:28
timelessthey didn't assume virus scanners would be evil12:29
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timelessvirus scanners being evil almost certainly came later12:29
RST38hTheme cruise ships have bikers, nudity and a whole lot more12:30
timelessoops,, wrong window12:30
timelessrst: eh?12:30
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RST38hOn a motorcycle cruise, you can explore exotic destinations without the hassle of shipping your bike or renting someone else's12:42
RST38hActually makes sense, surprising12:43
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, hum, so I suppose I should wait to blog until tomorrow then?12:45
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: er, yeah, if you have anything in queue - there's just some tiny bugs that would be nice to fix as the rest seems quite nice12:46
Stskeepsanything mer-related that is12:46
* Stskeeps has been very preoccupied with family stuff this week sadly12:46
lcukStskeeps, family is much more important than your hacking time.  get them a n8x0 each and let them help build your barn together ;)12:55
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, well, I have <h3>Mer</h3>. ;)12:55
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Stskeepslcuk: i think me and my brothers working on anything together will, probably, result in the apocalypse12:57
lcukhaha, wheres your amish spirit boy!12:57
Stskeepsit is the inverse amish spirit12:58
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Stskeepstimeless: shouldn't be a need for dummy package now13:01
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timelessthanks :)13:03
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Stskeepssometimes i really really wonder about people reporting bugs13:06
Stskeeps'i want the hardware keyboard (german layout) to work correctly again in Maemo. The installation of Mer f..ed up the settings for Maemo, too.'13:06
Stskeepsi really wonder how that can happen13:06
Stskeepswe don't even touch rootfs in Mer :P13:06
timelessi wonder what it means :)13:06
* qwerty12 offers Stskeeps a placebo pill to give to the reporter13:07
Stskeepscyanide works better..13:08
RST38hGeneral: Here?13:08
Stskeepsqwerty12: you in a packaging mood?13:12
qwerty12Stskeeps, sorry, I'm already packaging atm13:12
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Stskeepsqwerty12: alrightie13:12
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* GeneralAntilles mumbles about focus bugs.13:12
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* Stskeeps really need a usb keyboard for his tablet.13:13
Stskeepsfor those moments where laptop is out of reach13:14
GeneralAntillesRST38h, are the TI-89/TI-92s feasible to emulate?13:14
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aquatixStskeeps: bt keyboard not an option?13:18
qwerty12Stskeeps, it seems that this package takes long because compiling is long :/. What do you want me to do?13:18
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Stskeepsqwerty12: nm, i got started on it :)13:21
qwerty12cool :)13:21
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Stskeeps <- and why does the pandora take that long time shipping then13:26
qwerty12Pandora is a elaborate con13:26
timelesss/ a / an /13:26
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RST38hGeneral: They are, but I am unlikely to get to them13:28
RST38hGeneral: Had a question about your earlier comment on Maemo-name-whatever13:29
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RST38hGeneral: I *think* I am already defining the full desktop name in the config files. Is it something else?13:29
RST38hqwerty: Probably not. When you con people, your first concern is how to get away with it, hence low profile and low footprint on reality13:30
qwerty12RST38h, it goes in your debian/control13:30
qwerty12RST38h, s/a elaborate con/bullshit/ :)13:31
RST38hqwerty: ah13:31
RST38hqwerty: could you give me an example of that control line?13:31
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qwerty12RST38h, here's one I'm doing now: - look at the last line. Because Maemo-Display-Name isn't an official debian field, you have to have [XSBC-] in front of Maemo-Display-Name or dh_gencontrol will not include that field in your final deb file. I'm using XB which means that it'll be included in my resulting deb file only13:33
RST38hfound it13:34
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GeneralAntillesqwerty12, when can I talk you into fleshing out this?
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, I tried but I don't know what I can include there as the links pretty much describe everything :)13:35
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GeneralAntillesqwerty12, maybe more specific examples for the Maemo specific fields?13:37
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qwerty12Yeah, that sounds good13:38
GeneralAntillesAppropriate use of selection menu location, too.13:39
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wazdAw, poor Bjorndalen (((13:56
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: btw, debmaster role - service function (ask question, get answer) or pointing out flaws continually in packaging, repository behaviour, etc?14:08
Stskeeps(think timeless type person in terms of packaging for the latter, not translations) ;)14:09
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GeneralAntillesProviding help for people who ask14:14
GeneralAntillesSeeking to help people who don't14:14
GeneralAntillesWorking on infrastructure stuff like the autobuilder.14:14
timelessone fihs, two fish, red fish, blue fish14:15
infobottimeless meant: one fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish14:15
timelessone lark, two larks14:16
timelessone fox, two foxes14:16
timelessone input, two ....?14:16
timelessactually, the real string involves mass nouns, not countables14:16
timeless<foopy's> behavior for handling unknown characters14:16
timeless    while transcoding user14:16
timeless                    _________.14:17
timelessinput | inputs14:17
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: alright, ta14:17
Stskeepsqwerty12: hmm, hildon application launcher doesn't really support stuff like %u and %f in .desktop files does it?14:19
timeless%u doesn't work in general14:19
timelesspeople should forget it exists :)14:19
Stskeepswell, firefox uses it it seems :P14:19
timelessfor the average case, a web browser will never decide to pass %u to something14:20
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qwerty12Stskeeps, if you leave it in there, hildon-desktop just passes on %u and %f. It's up to the launched application if it ignore it or if it spits out a error saying " %u could not be found"14:20
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Stskeepsqwerty12: k14:21
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GeneralAntillestimeless, what was that about h-a-m and incompatible application package?14:28
* timeless frowns14:28
timelessgot any more context?14:28
GeneralAntillesFor the l10n stuff14:28
GeneralAntilles"jx" was complaining?14:28
timelessi'm currently rewriting hg help14:28
timelessoh right14:28
timelesshe didn't like the Nokia disclaimer messages14:28
GeneralAntillesWho does?14:29
johnxis jx me or someone else who didn't like it?14:29
timelessjx is jX, not you14:29
timelessand he didn't like my string14:30
* GeneralAntilles notices he hasn't emptied his trash in a while . . . recovers 20GB.14:30
timelessfeeling there was probably a reason that nokia's lawyers forced the official string14:30
timelesshow large is your disk?14:30
GeneralAntillesUm, which one(s)?14:31
timelesswell, let's see14:31
GeneralAntillesMy boot "disk" is a 600GB RAID 014:31
timelessmy laptop is 55g (3g free)14:31
* GeneralAntilles doesn't do laptops.14:32
GeneralAntillesI've got about 2.4TB of storage on this machine.14:32
timelessheck, konigsberg which hosts one of my mxr's has 90gb14:33
timelessand i ran it out of spacec a few days ago14:33
lcukGeneralAntilles, so why bothered about a whole 20gb?14:33
GeneralAntillesWould there be an advantage to hosting's MXR on
timelessswift has ~300-400gb iirc, and it has ~50gb free and owes someone another 10014:33
GeneralAntilleslcuk, because it's mostly full. :P14:33
timelessgan: no :)14:33
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timelessdh hosts mxr.maemo.org14:34
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timelesskonigsberg is for mozilla stuff14:34
GeneralAntillesWhen do we get Fremantle?14:34
timelesswhen i'm not sick for 3 days in a row14:34
timelessatm we're in the middle of setting up another box14:34
timelessbut i was sick thursday+friday14:34
* GeneralAntilles hands timeless a steamy bowl of chicken soup.14:34
timelesskosher w/ matzo balls?14:34
GeneralAntillesSure, why not?14:35
timelessthanks :)14:35
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GeneralAntillesHowdy, gnuton.14:35
lcuktimeless, why didn't your virus checker block it? :D (i was just as bad, had man-flu :S)14:35
gnutonHei GeneralAntilles:D14:35
timelessmy systems haven't been working for months14:36
timelessand finnish doctors are useless14:36
lbtlcuk: hey... my turn :)
gnuton I was going to have a walk this morning... There is beautiful sun here in helsinki today... but I'm still here :(14:37
lbtnot in your class smoothness wise - but easy to add to Qt apps...14:37
lcukvery nice lbt :)14:39
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* lcuk likes whats left mode14:39
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lbtIt needs a fanfare when the last item vanishes...14:40
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lcuklol, i can see the funny looks already when you are walking round14:42
lcuklbt, a proper animation like when you go bowling and they put one on for a strike14:43
lcuklet the users design custom anims :14:43
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lbtmmm - ringtones too14:44
lbtor messages from SWMBO .... "Right you're done - now get home and tidy up"14:45
GeneralAntillesTwo- or three-column lists would be nice.14:45
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lbtGA ?14:45
lbtit has a column to the right which is empty - for ad-hoc notes14:46
lbtlike "get 2" or "orang pack"14:46
GeneralAntillesRight, I don't use the notes column.14:46
GeneralAntillesI'd rather have that used for another column of notes.14:46
GeneralAntillesLess scrolling14:46
lbtfair enough...14:47
lbtI like that as an option14:47
lbtdo you have the XRandR extension?14:47
GeneralAntillesIt's bundled since Diablo.14:47
lbtthe gtk version has a button that makes it go landscape14:47
lbthmm my RandR detection code is bust ;)14:48
lbtthere *should* be a button that only appears on RandR enabled machines14:49
lcukwhat if the user changes orientation outside the app14:49
qwerty12_N800steal adv-backlight's code :p14:49
lbtif (XRRQueryExtension (dpy, &xrr_event_base, &xrr_error_base) == false14:49
* lcuk fails at this himself so its to both of us ;)14:49
lbtQt has events for external size changes14:50
lbtso long as you are packed and not pixel placed then you're fine14:50
* lcuk uses a combination of both14:51
lbtin general the nested container approach is very flexible - pixels hurt14:52
* lcuk nods14:53
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StsN800lo b-man16:47
b-manhay StsN800 :)16:49
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* RST38h yawns widely17:04
johnxso how's the weather over there?17:05
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RST38h-1..+1, wet snow17:06
RST38hlots of it though, looks pretty17:06
johnxeep. just turned to spring here it appears17:06
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Maceri wish it were spring here17:06
johnxgiven the temperature now I'm betting it will be a record breaking summer17:06
Macerit's 19 degrees now17:06
RST38hjohnx: I have heard .jp summer is already as hot and humid as it gets?17:07
RST38hMacer: oF or oC?17:07
Macerhm. my esxi box is xfering at 60MB/s17:07
wazdwe have fricking bunch of snow ))17:07
wazdI wonder where's my car now)17:07
RST38hMacer: That is -7oC, pretty decent17:08
RST38hwazd: You will find it tomorrow, unless it sinks =)17:08
johnxRST38h, kanto (Tokyo, Yokohama, etc) area summer is pretty similar to Virginia/Washington DC17:08
RST38hjohnx: yeeek.17:08
johnxbut it looks like I spoke too soon. Weather forecast says it'll be back down to 0c (!!) again by the end of the week17:09
b-man26 F and sunny here :)17:09
* RST38h absolutely, positively, definitely hates DC summer. Winter too, but to a lesser degree.17:09
* wazd wants to crate a topic on ITT named "Aerobus A100 vs n810"17:09
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johnxWarthog A10 vs N800?17:10
RST38hwazd: Oh, please do, in "Competition" forum!17:10
johnxmmm...steak fajita vs N80017:10
wazdBoeing finishing works on it's brand new 897 model. Beware, Nokia!17:10
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RST38hWe had just about anything else in Competition by now17:11
Mace_that keeps happening and it's starting to piss me off17:11
StsN800or the most difficult one.. bacon vs tablet17:11
RST38hiphones, netbooks, nameless chinese mids, you name it17:11
johnxif Nokia doesn't make an announcement soon they'll lose sales in the passenger airline segment17:11
b-manStsN800: lol17:11
wazdand boeing has TWO 17" screens!17:12
RST38hwazd: and a freaking jet engine that Nokia will NEVER put into their tablet17:12
* RST38h kinda remembers Boeing not having a GPS though17:12
StsN800and passenger seat PMPs..17:12
johnxsome people say the boeing isn't pocketable but it's ok because I carry an airplane hanger everyplace I go17:12
johnxs/hanger/hangar ... thought that looked off17:13
wazdjohnx: pocketable things are for sissies17:13
RST38hjohnx: that is only because it needs bigger batteries though17:13
lcukjohnx, its not the hangar that worries me, its having to show me passport and get scanned before powering up canola17:14
johnxbut 897 is kind of a low number compared to the N90017:14
wazdRST38h: there's no linux driver for jet engine so I think that's the bottleneck :)17:14
RST38hWait wait17:14
lcukwazd, there was once an open source jet engine, but it was a bit of a flop17:15
RST38hBoeing does not come with slide out keyboard! Only food trays!17:15
johnxguys, I need to make a decision by tomorrow: which is faster? Boeing 897 or Nokia N900?17:15
lcukopen tracy, receive bacon17:15
lcukffs freudian slip17:15
wazdlcuk: aha, thats how you earn your bacon))17:16
StsN800 , wtf17:16
StsN800'n8x0 ruined my relationship' :P17:17
johnxhaha! actually I had the opposite thing going. Vagalume/ was picking only songs that I really loved...but I'm not sure how it knows that I like them. I never really fed it much info17:17
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Mace_mind melding through the headphones17:19
StsN800my tablet is the modern equivalent of a vinyl player with romantic music like in the old movies17:19
Mace_like the dawson's creek trapper keeper 300017:19
johnxmine is the modern equivalent of a pocketable linux-based, color screened internet radio w/ web browser...oh wait17:19
Mace_sounds like my G117:20
* RST38h calls his "my precioussss"17:20
lcukjohnx, the mic exists for a reason17:20
johnxdid anyone try lxnm on mer?17:21
StsN800hmm, no17:21
johnxit claims to be a 'lightweight network manager'17:21
johnxI assume it originally went with lxde17:21
Mace_StsN800: are you sure you don't need this box?17:21
timelE61iJohnx: hardware you can't have today or hardware you could buy yesterday?17:22
Mace_i'm backing it up to my fileserver now17:22
StsN800Mace_, go ahead17:22
Mace_will you need it later or something?17:22
johnxtimelE61i, that it's the modern equivalent of itself :)17:22
timelE61ior is the n97 also vaporware?17:23
Mace_i'll keep it on my fileserver for a while in case you ever need it... but i'm sure in about 6 months it will have depreciated17:23
RST38hBTW, while looking for LXNM, I have found this:
StsN800Mace_,  as i said, content is deprecated atm too17:23
RST38hSts: Given that Nokia's applets are closed source, will these do?17:23
Mace_ok well.. if you ever need another box then.. let me know17:24
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StsN800RST38h, hmm, looks interesting17:24
johnxtimelE61i, I never said it was. Are you saying it is?17:25
Macershit this intel server card is so much faster than the onboard crap NIC mboards use17:25
Macernvidia and marvell yukons... what garbage17:25
GeneralAntillesMy new pet theory is that the next tablet is going to turn out to be a rebranded iPhone.17:25
MacerGeneralAntilles: more like a skype phone17:26
wazdBjorndalen is a winner again! Whoray!)17:26
StsN800my conspiracy theory is next tablet is multiple tablets17:26
Macerthe utms modem will be great for making a skype acct and raping your wireless providers net access17:26
johnxGeneralAntilles, losing the faith?17:26
GeneralAntillesMacer, that theory isn't funny at all.17:26
GeneralAntillesjohnx, no, I'm just bored and want new hardware. :P17:27
Maceri wasn't being funny17:27
RST38hGeneral: iPhone? No, never17:27
GeneralAntillesMacer, I was, which is why your followup sucked. :P17:27
Macerif my n800 had a utms modem in it.. i would just get the cheapest unlimited net plan i could use.. an earpiece.. and use skype17:27
RST38hGeneral: It will be a rebranded Toshiba Gigabeat, running Linux =)17:27
johnxme too :/ it's spring and 2 years after my last major gadget purchase and I've developed the wanderlust and a horrible gadget craving17:27
Macerwow.. that would make it an iphone :-\17:28
Macerthat's it. i'm buying intel NICs for everything i have here17:28
t_s_olcuk: what a sense of humor you have :P17:28
Macerthis thing is flying.. 65MB/s17:28
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Macercompared to the shitty 30MB/s i get from the onboard stuff17:28
* RST38h is amazed how everyone misses a point that the "next tablet" has already been released17:28
MacerRST38h: 3G iphone?17:29
johnxRST38h, the N810WE?17:29
StsN800RST38h, n97=rx-51?17:29
* Macer grins17:29
RST38hNokia 580017:29
RST38hfor all effective purposes, it does the same things as N8x017:29
johnxexcept any of the things I care about17:29
RST38hjohnx: Well...mhmm...17:30
johnxthis manhole cover is exactly like a pizza!17:30
johnxlook, look!17:30
GeneralAntillesIt's also not actually available for me yet.17:30
RST38hGeneral: All over the place here17:30
GeneralAntillesAlso: it's slower than the current tablets.17:30
wazdstreaming of Nokia events on WMC17:30
Macerand it runs symbian :)17:31
RST38hGeneral: general users do not care really17:31
GeneralAntillesRST38h, yes, but we're not talking about general users.17:31
RST38hruns symbian, slower, smaller screen, etc17:31
GeneralAntillesWe're talking about the people in this room who care about a new tablet.17:31
GeneralAntillesFor them, the 5800 is not that.17:31
RST38hGeneral: But nokia is, I guess17:31
lcukhow is it slower?17:31
GeneralAntillesRST38h, so I don't know what your point is.17:31
GeneralAntilleslcuk, slower CPU17:31
wazdlcuk: well, 5800 is not a speed demon)17:31
lcukbut from a users POV, how is it slower?17:31
* GeneralAntilles sighs.17:31
wazdlcuk: browser is way slower17:32
RST38hGeneral: my point is that from Nokia marketing pov, they have got "the next tablet" released17:32
GeneralAntillesRST38h, this is #maemo.17:32
johnxthanks for your point. moving on...17:32
qwerty12_N800Symbian also comes with its signing shit which Maemo doesn't have17:32
wazdGeneralAntilles: this is #sparta :)17:32
GeneralAntilleswazd, if only.17:33
StsN800no, #bacon17:33
GeneralAntillesThen I could kick everyone trying to make strange irrelevant point into a well.17:33
RST38hGeneral: still worth keeping in mind that we ain't the target audience for Nokia products17:33
Macerit's ok! Mer will keep it all going!17:33
StsN800we should have named Mer BaconOS17:34
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Macerno point in rushing things.. they will release a new maemo tablet when they do17:34
johnxah crap! I thought I was the only one Nokia cared about! have they been cheating on me this whole time? *kries*17:34
MacerStsN800: yeah.. you sure messed that one up :)17:34
MacerBaconOS would have been way better17:34
wazdYou know what?17:34
Maceryou could have even acronymed the bacon part17:34
wazdScrew you guys, I'm going home)17:34
* wazd gone for food17:35
Macerspeaking of nokia. i still need to get a new encasing for my n9517:35
johnxwazd, thanks for the link :)17:35
Macercrap.. i should have done it already but i needed the tools and i don' think the kit is saw came with them17:35
Macerthat little guitar pic looking thing17:35
Macerthat rips the side off17:35
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* lcuk remembers it lookin a bit quicker17:36
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lcukGeneralAntilles, wazd you are right17:36
* lcuk has rose tinted glasses17:36
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, it also worth keeping in mind that Symbian strategy doesn't really have a whole lot to do with Maemo strategy.17:41
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GeneralAntillesjohnx, well, certainly.17:42
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GeneralAntillesFor the time being I'm trying to address the slightly random argument about the 5800, though. :P17:43
johnxOTOH it's clear that Maemo strategy and Symbian strategy are closer than they were 3-4 years ago17:43
johnxthe point of the argument was to get people to jump into the argument :)17:43
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Maceri really need my ice genie for this shuttle k4517:45
lcukwhy havent people tried to put maemo onto 5800?  is symbian still locked up17:45
Maceri hate waiting on shit to get here... why hasn't someone invented a teleporter yet?17:45
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GeneralAntillesMacer, there's probably enough cold left to pull a Cartman.17:45
lcukthey have macer, they are waiting for your bank account to get large enough before starting the advertising campaign17:45
johnxlcuk, that's actually a somewhat interesting question. There's a certain equation that determines the likeliness of a linux port to a platform17:46
lcukwell of all the devices i really wouldv expected something sooner17:46
GeneralAntillesDoes that Qualcomm SoC have any Linux support?17:46
lcuki know the kind of stuff ive been writing will sit on a device like that quite nicely17:46
johnxlcuk, there are more iphones in the wild than 5800s and the linux port for them is positively embryonic17:47
timelE61iMy phone/irc client died17:47
Macerthis shuttle doesn't come with enough cooling stock17:47
lcukjohnx, but we have symbian open os dont we - ie we arent fighting a closed battle?17:47
timelE61iBasically anything i've never seen in stores is vaporware as far as i'm concerned17:47
Macerespecially considering that i had to replace the dying psu with its shitty cooling fan that died on me with a picoPSU17:47
timelE61iLcuk: symbian open is a promise, not an accomplishment17:47
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Macerthe intel stock cooler can't keep up with it17:48
timelE61iin a few years you'll be able to look at the symbian source and say "eww, gross" :17:48
RST38hGeneral: about symbian vs maemo strategy: this is what I am worried about17:49
GeneralAntillestimelE61i, don't corrupt the definition of vaporware like that.17:49
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RST38hGeneral: In a [financial] pinch, Symbian has the potential to steamroll Maemo into the ground17:49
timelE61iaww, i need a new word then17:49
Macermy stock intel fan is running so fast that i think it's going to start flying17:50
timelE61iImagine palm makes a promise of webos today17:50
Macerand it is making this buzzing noise.. probably because it has to keep spinning retarded fast to keep up with the cpu in such a small enclosure17:50
timelE61iAnd goes out of business tomorrow17:50
* RST38h read "stock intel fan" and thought "Atom"? =)17:50
timelE61iDo you get webos in june?17:50
lcukMacer, underclock17:50
Macerlcuk: yeah.. i might have to until my ice genie gets here17:51
Maceri'm going to melt the mboard if it keeps up like this17:51
RST38hBTW, just came:
lcukMacer, is this in normal desktop running? or are you hammering it playing games17:52
timelE61ifwiw, the n800 has an error message for when it decides to kill itself if it detects it's overheating17:52
Macerlcuk: normal desktop.. but it's usually under heavy use17:52
timelE61i(slightly less offtopic)17:52
timelE61iThat's one error message i hope no one ever sees17:52
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Maceri have an ice genie on the way though. small water cooling kit from shuttle17:53
Macerdraws heat from the entire box also.. so that should help quite a bit.. and the fan is a lot more quiet than this intel stock fan17:53
johnxtimelE61i, I think vaporware should only be used for the most vaporous of promises. liquid/semi-solid and solidware could be used in different discussions. I've already heard people talk about various products 'condensing' into existence as more leaked photos show up17:53
lcuktimelE61i, never came up when i kept mine charging in an wooden enclosure all day long   (well, i never saw it when i pulled it out, but the whole device was uncomfortably hot to touch17:53
Maceri'm actually more excited to get my artigo to put debian or kubuntu on17:53
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Maceri really want to see how well the C7 performs17:54
timelE61ilcuk: i'm not encouraging people to test this message!17:54
lcuki cursed myself for it as well ;)17:54
timelE61iI didn't search to see if the codepath was connected17:54
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johnxtimelE61i, I'm guessing it's not or isn't reachable before damage is potentially done to other components17:56
* lcuk would personally prefer a shutdown if too hot17:56
lcuk"phew, its getting warm"17:56
lcuk"omg, open the window"17:57
lcuk"arghhhhhhh its burning"17:57
johnxlcuk, <- ways to predict whether a device will ever have a linux port17:57
johnxnot really in order of importance17:57
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lcukyeah johnx, you missed one though:   7) is there anyone bored enough to hack it18:00
johnxthat goes with common/popular and cheap18:01
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johnxaaah! I missed a really big one though: Is it a type of device that the user/hacker/porter can afford to leave in a non-working state for potentially extended periods of time18:02
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johnxit's this last one which I think lets the air out of lots of porting attempts to phones18:02
lcukjohnx, there were people buying hardware to stand outside the shop and destroy it18:02
lcukscreensize and limited use puts people off18:03
johnxkeyboard is bigger than screensize18:03
johnxlimited use seems to be only marginally important18:03
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johnxand the people who destroy devices outside stores are in an entirely separate, disconnected circle of the diagram from people who port linux to things18:04
johnxdamn...didn't pay attention and my install of network-manager-gnome just accidentally brought in samba and cups :(18:05
lcukon device?18:05
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johnxexcept now I'm wasting xxMB/64MB of RAM running cupsd :/18:09
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RST38hjohnx: you should now connect a printer.18:10
johnxI don't own one18:10
johnxit's quite nice18:10
johnxI don't have the room to spare for quaint passtimes like 'printing' or 'starting a DVD collection'18:11
RST38hstarting a dvd collection is stupid18:12
johnxI would lump 'printing' in with that category in about 4/5 situations when it's commonly employed18:13
johnxsuch as 'let me print you a shopping list' 'let me hand you a printout of this webpage' (<- this happens to me), 'let me print the email he/she sent' 'let's print a map!'18:14
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* RST38h prints maps18:15
Stskeepsjohnx: i stopped printing maps. i now print maps to pdf, which are put on my tablet. and now i have a data plan, i skip the pdf part.18:15
* RST38h even prints source code for later inspection18:15
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johnxStskeeps++ RST38h--18:15
* RST38h finds reading remains of dead trees oddly relaxing18:16
Stskeepsi protested my TAs decision not to accept PDF files by e-mail by printing him a xournal-exported pdf on a color printer and giving it to him.18:16
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johnxRST38h, just tell me you don't hand people 15 stapled pages and tell them 'I found this website you might be interested in so I printed for you.'18:16
RST38hSts: Did he pay for the ink?18:16
StskeepsRST38h: indirectly maybe18:16
RST38hjohnx: I do not hand people websites18:16
wazd_n800I've found cool site18:17
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RST38hhave you printed it all? =)18:17
wazd_n800so I've printed it for you18:17
johnxwazd, now that would actually be fun to have a printout of18:17
RST38hWell, gentlemen...
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johnxthere's something about printing it off a nice small-medium laser printer and stapling every article that makes a difference though :)18:19
wazd_n800There's some bible chapter happening on the streets right now18:19
RST38hwazd: ?18:19
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johnxI remember my friend printed the FreeBSD handbook to use up his (paid for) semester printing allotment...18:20
Stskeepswe have free print at the faculty now18:20
* RST38h did not have an allotment18:20
Stskeepsit got too expensive handling paying compared to just giving free print :P18:21
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johnxRST38h, we had a fee to provide it18:21
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johnxa steep fee18:21
RST38hNever really overused the printers though18:21
RST38hjohnx: I was a TA, then an RA, you your fee provided for me =)18:21
johnxI'm sure he wouldn't have done it if he hadn't been charged already18:21
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infobotRST38h meant: johnx: I was a TA, then an RA, so your fee provided for me =)18:21
johnxRST38h, the fee paid you to ignore the bottle of everclear being passed around the freshmen floor18:21
Macerhm. sould have seriously put a larger disk in this box18:22
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johnxMacer, like one of those 5.25" ones? or you thinking 8"?18:22
RST38hjohnx: Ah, dorms weren't our responsibility =)18:22
Stskeepsseperation of state and dorms is excellent18:22
johnxRA != dorm?18:22
Stskeepsresearch assistant18:22
RST38hjohnx: RA = research assistant18:23
johnxthe other RA18:23
Macermeant a larger hard drive18:23
johnxMacer, so did I :>18:23
Macer:) touche18:23
Macerwow.. a bigfoot18:23
Macerhey.. they were cheap and big :)18:23
* GeneralAntilles found a 5.25" hard drive in a 2001 Compaq one time.18:24
Maceri never had a bigfoot die on me18:25
Maceri can give them that much at least18:25
Maceri don't think it would even break if you threw it into a wall :)18:25
Macerit was a hard drive/armed combat weapon18:26
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Stskeeps"tablets: usable as weapons?"18:26
MacerGeneralAntilles: have you ever seen like.. the REAL OLD hard drives?18:27
Maceri mean the ones with like an 18" platter? :)18:27
Macer5MB 12" platter drives and shit like that18:27
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GeneralAntillesMacer, in a museum somewhere.18:28
* Stskeeps tries out .. snap1018:29
Stskeepsjesus, too many snaps to get things right this time18:29
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* RST38h has seen lots of real old harddrives and even used a platter from one as a kitchen gong18:31
qwerty12neodymium magnets ftw18:32
RST38h10"+ aluminium platter18:32
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slonopotamusStskeeps, releasing 0.8?18:33
olisome guy from polish electronics board made a hdd with plexi window and blue LED's inside...18:33
Stskeepsslonopotamus: yeah, tomorrow - i have hardly been at my laptop and there are a few things we want to fix just yet..18:33
oliafter few days he got enough bad sectors to put that hdd in trash ;p18:33
slonopotamusStskeeps, good luck. i'm still stuck with unbuildable pygtk.18:34
johnxoli, if you do that you have to do it a cleanroom...18:34
Maceryou just have to love the way vista gives you absolutely no time eta on disk defragmentation18:35
RST38hcrazy poles...18:35
olijohnx: I know that, every piece of dust is a high risk :) but that guy probably doesn't :)18:35
Stskeepsslonopotamus: oh, pygtk is a bloody nightmare18:35
Stskeepsslonopotamus: is it pygtk on top of maemo gtk?18:35
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slonopotamusStskeeps, nope, both vanilla18:35
Stskeepsoh, then it is probably similar18:35
olithere was also other guy who tried to stick new PCI-E graphics into AGP, people adviced him to cut the gold part of cart so it could fit...18:36
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slonopotamusStskeeps, gcc  enters endless (?) loop while building gtk.c. it should take less than a minute, but it compiled for a day and didn't finish. tried different pygtk versions, still no luck. gonna build gcc-4.3, maybe it'll help.18:37
Stskeepsslonopotamus: you are aware that pygtk goes through several iterations of the same files, right?18:38
Stskeepssame / it updates the missing coverage stuff18:38
Stskeepsuntil it reaches 100% coverage or something18:39
jeremiahdebian has added support for armel with the lenny release, I wonder what this effect this will have on Maemo?18:39
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jeremiahI suppose it means that at the very least debian packages for that architecture are going to18:39
jeremiah be more stable.18:39
jeremiahSince they have been tested a bit.18:40
Stskeepsjeremiah: not much really. it caused johnx's debian, then me and johnxs deblet and then mer..18:40
slonopotamus_Stskeeps, it runs single gcc command for a day18:40
slonopotamus_Stskeeps, i simply got tired of waiting18:40
jeremiahStskeeps: deblet? What's that?18:40
slonopotamus_Stskeeps, all other files built in reasonable time18:40
Stskeepsjeremiah: deblet was a more kosher distribution of debian for the nokia tablets18:41
Stskeepsmer's older brother18:41
jeremiahStskeeps: Ah! Cool. Mer sounds fun, I have to check it out a bit more.18:41
Stskeeps(we have been playing with debian-armel for ages now :P)18:41
oliwill mer always use hildon-desktop? :>18:41
Stskeepsoli: people are using mer and lxde..18:41
jeremiahStskeeps: Okay. Do you guys push stuff back upsteam? Like up to debian?18:42
RST38holi: looks mightty pretty though18:42
Stskeepsjeremiah: so far we don't have much that is worth pushing, but 0xffff package have been pushed :P18:42
oliStskeeps: ok, i don't ask anymore, just going for a >4gb SD :)18:42
oliRST38h: it's 2GB hdd18:43
* jeremiah reads the mer website18:43
Stskeepsjeremiah: with Mer we are trying to push to Maemo when we can..18:43
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johnxalso, a lot of the things we're doing in mer are because they don't really fit into debian or ubuntu in a sane way18:43
Stskeepsyeah.. i see mer as a middle point between OE/emdebian, maemo, and desktop distributions18:43
slonopotamus_johnx, insane things? :)18:43
johnxfor example we use Nokia's patched version of gtk+, but we already know that Ubuntu, Debian and upstream gtk+ don't want most of those patches18:44
jeremiahVery, very interesting.18:44
Stskeepsbut nokia's patched version makes perfect sense on mobile devices, for instance18:44
johnxslonopotamus, for middling values for insane18:44
jeremiahWow, so it is just you two guys supporting the whole distro?18:44
jeremiahThat is a lot of work.18:44
Macergoddamn tropic thunder cracks me up18:44
Stskeepsnah, look at the people's list18:44
Stskeepspeople are doing different kind of work18:44
* b-man is maintaining merinstaller18:45
johnxand also a lot comes from ubuntu and maemo18:45
Stskeepsand the code drops from fremantle pre-alphas are great, so18:45
jeremiahHmm, so  real community is building up behind it.18:45
jeremiahgood stuff18:45
b-manyup :)18:45
Stskeeps0.8 comes out tomorrow.. take it for a swing in virtualbox, qemu or vmware :)18:46
johnxit's in everyone's enlightened self interest after all :)18:46
Stskeepsespecially since Maemo 5 doesn't come for N8x0.18:46
* johnx is applying that keyboard/enter fix finally ... 18:46
jeremiahthat is excellent. Well, I hope to contribute to because a vibrant eco system is a Good Thing18:46
Stskeepsjeremiah: we'll be asking a lot of crazy questions probably :P18:46
* Stskeeps is a novice in debian packaging but has a good sense of architecture and ideas.. :P18:47
jeremiahFire away whenever, I hope to put up some contact info on the wiki18:47
Stskeepsjohnx: woo18:47
jeremiahStskeeps: You'll learn the packaging bit quickly, the other parts are what matters.18:47
* qwerty12 has more fun packaging games then actually playing them :/18:48
Stskeepsyeah, would be a shame if i didn't learn a little bit by getting a comp.sci degree.. :P18:48
johnxStskeeps, for now it can just be a boot thing I guess, but how do you feel about including dbus-scripts daemon into mer for some lightweight/misc event handling?18:48
Stskeepsjohnx: what is dbus-scripts again?18:48
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Stskeepsjeremiah: for scary facts - i'm chatting to you from Mer on a laptop, with the hildon environment.. in osso-xterm, on x86.18:49
johnxStskeeps, it listens for dbus events and launches scripts/programs passing the dbus message as an argument18:49
Stskeepsthat is what makes mer truely interesting18:49
jeremiahStskeeps: You mean that it can be a laptop-like OS and a tablet OS?18:49
Stskeepsjeremiah: it can be a netbook os, tablet os, mobile phone OS.. maemo everywhere :>18:50
Stskeepsi even had it on a Pocket Loox 720 PDA.18:50
johnxbut it's still using hildon-desktop on all those machines18:50
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Stskeepswe even have it on the beagleboard too :P18:50
jeremiahSo you get the same "look and feel"18:50
Stskeepsif you develop stuff for mer on x86, it most likely (.. some exceptions), builds for the other architectures too18:51
Stskeepsso you can try your applications for the maemo platform as they are, directly in your machine or virtual machine18:51
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, package up PokerTH18:52
jeremiahI love using VMs so I am definitely going to download mer18:52
RST38hqwerty: yes, please =)18:52
Stskeepsso we'll see where this leads.. it was the choice between maintaining a backport and patching diablo firmware images.. or doing something radical to the maemo platform18:52
Maceri still can't believe that is robert downey jr. as the black dude18:52
Stskeepsguess which was more fun :>18:52
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, I think mikkov_ has his eye on that looking at the thanks counter and he's a LOT better than me so I'll wait...18:52
Macerwhen i first saw this i had no idea :)18:52
Macer"I don't break character until I'm done with the DVD commentary!"18:53
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, I keep telling Firebird I'll refer him to somebody to help him package it up, but he keeps putting up roadblocks.18:53
Stskeepsjeremiah: so, now on mer - instead of maintaining a horrible port of most things.. apt-get install firefox, apt-get install abiword, .. etc18:53
Stskeepsand it just works18:53
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, odd, he responded well to the source request :/18:54
johnxand it just works as well as a non-hildonized app can18:54
johnxbut often when you need a specific app an 80% solution is good enough18:54
jeremiahDo KDE apps pose problems?18:54
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, well, I've been friends with him for a while.18:54
jeremiahSay vs. Gnome apps18:54
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, he's just being lazy or something.18:54
johnxjeremiah, they shouldn't and yet...testing is welcome :)18:55
Stskeepsjeremiah: i honestly didn't try yet. but we will probably also look at Qt for Maemo so18:55
Stskeepsso it adapts a similar look18:55
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slonopotamus_i wanna see how you'll hildonize qt apps18:55
Stskeepsslonopotamus_: Qt handles it itself afaik18:56
Stskeepsmost of it, at least18:56
qwerty12slonopotamus_, maemo qt does automatic hildonizing (to the best it can do anyway)18:56
johnxslonopotamus, check out some screenshots on the qt for maemo page18:56
slonopotamus_oh my.18:56
slonopotamus_maemo qt, maemo gtk18:56
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johnxslonopotamus, join us and we can rule the galaxy together! *shakes fist*18:57
Stskeepsslonopotamus_: if its API and ABI compatible with normal gtk, who cares? :P18:57
Stskeeps / qt18:57
jeremiahyeah, Qt is pretty rockin.18:57
Stskeepsqt 4 maemo is (honestly) how maemo gtk ought to have been18:57
johnxI wonder if there were technical limitations in gtk18:58
johnxI know that something similar was done for qtopia18:58
jeremiahNokia owns Qt don't they? They bought Trolltech and Trolltech produces Qt.18:58
Stskeepsnow they do, back then they didn't18:58
qwerty12hildon doesn't really help when it expects GTK_MENU to be returned for the menu rather than GTK_MENUBAR18:59
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johnxStskeeps, /apps/osso/inputmethod/keyboardavailable is false by default, correct?19:00
slonopotamusStskeeps, /root/cx3110x-module-src-2.0.15/src/sm_drv_spi.c:39:26: error: linux/config.h: No such file or directory while trying to build cx3110x-module. any hints?19:00
Stskeepsjohnx: correct, and it is keyboard_available19:01
Stskeepsslonopotamus: compile kernel first19:01
johnxI picked the wrong line of yours to copy :)19:01
slonopotamusStskeeps, it's compiled19:01
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slonopotamusStskeeps, yesterday19:01
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slonopotamusStskeeps, ~100 minutes for maemo vanilla kernel, btw.19:01
Stskeepsslonopotamus: natively? ok19:02
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slonopotamusStskeeps, yep, on device19:02
Stskeepsslonopotamus: well. i think cross-compilation acceleration like scratchbox can be neat, but it shouldn't be a requirement..19:02
Stskeepsit should be kinda like DISTCCing to a cross-compiler instead19:03
Stskeeps(did you ever try that?)19:03
slonopotamusStskeeps, why 'kinda'? why not use distcc?19:03
Stskeepsslonopotamus: well, we did for deblet initially19:03
Stskeepsslonopotamus: cos we never had scratchbox19:03
slonopotamusStskeeps, got problems with this setup?19:04
Stskeepsslonopotamus: with DISTCC? occasionally19:04
Stskeepsbut there was probably a lot of factors to it19:04
slonopotamusStskeeps, more often than with sb? :)19:04
Stskeepsslonopotamus: touche19:05
slonopotamusStskeeps, hehe. i still can't understand. there's qemu inside scratchbox? or cross-compiler?19:05
Stskeepsit uses cross-compiler for compilations, and qemu for emulating the programs if need be19:06
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Stskeepsslonopotamus: you good at generating cross-compilation toolchains btw?19:07
StskeepsMeizirkki: did you ever solve your bw quota issue btw?19:07
Meizirkkibw quota issue?19:08
Stskeepsas in your parents making it impossible to dl more than 5gb a month?19:08
Meizirkkinot parents, opreator. anyway it's a deal that when i dload more than 5gp they lower priority of your connection19:09
Meizirkkibut because i am living in the middle of nowhere, there is nobody else to override me19:10
Stskeepslol :P19:10
StskeepsMeizirkki: if i give you a tar.gz can you test it quickly? i have moved from Xmodmap to HAL plus XKB so19:11
Stskeepswe are first releasing tomorrow as we wanted to finish these issues19:11
Stskeepsmidori issue. no HIM for text fields19:13
johnxmaybe a change from tear we can borrow19:14
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Stskeepsand its a bit crashy but so it goes19:14
* b-man reminds himself to update the url on merinstaller to 0.8 for tomorrows release19:15
Stskeepsb-man: mm, good idea19:15
Stskeepswhy don't i like the "Checking for updates, please wait" string in HAM?19:15
Stskeepsi always think it looks for updates to the system19:15
Stskeepsnot as it is, updates to the installable applications list19:16
GAN800please wait is stupid19:16
GAN800It's a dialog with a progress bar19:16
GAN800Of course you're going to wait. . . .19:16
johnxGAN800, so you're saying it should only talk about the exceptional case?19:17
GAN800"Updating application catalog..."19:17
johnxI like the idea of a dialog with progress bar and no clickable button that says "Wait or don't wait. it doesn't really matter."19:18
Stskeepswe so need en_GB-sarcastic.19:18
Stskeepsand klingon.19:18
* johnx wants to make an en_JP19:18
Stskeepshello kitty? :P19:18
Meizirkkiwhat about having a "mer-latest-image" on some server that is a link to the real tar.gz, so there would be no need to upgrade installer everytime there's a update?19:19
johnxStskeeps, go to, find the most absurd example on the site and odds are 9/10 that actually came from a real product and isn't a photoshop19:20
StskeepsMeizirkki: i would be delighted to, except the ftp protocol doesn't support making symlinks..19:20
Stskeepsjohnx: yeah, i know19:20
Stskeepsjohnx: i have seen funny things in hong kong too19:20
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StskeepsMeizirkki: but yes, you are perfectly right19:20
Stskeepsb-man: when you are bored, make something that grabs the current image name from a .txt on the server or something19:21
Stskeepsor a list of images19:21
Stskeepslike <version>,<release date><description>19:22
Stskeepsor the likes :P19:22
b-manok :)19:22
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* b-man also thinks about making separate lists for internal/external mmcs to make the installer less confusing19:23
Stskeepswell, are you speaking of the p1..4 thing?19:24
* qwerty12 wonders what he has to do to make mer believe that my N800 does support wifi...19:24
Stskeepsb-man: make a function making the p1..p4 strings? i dunno19:24
Stskeepsqwerty12: i still suspect it is CAL-related for some strange reason19:24
Stskeepsqwerty12: but i need to see console output of your tablet19:25
* johnx wonders about different hardware revs of the N80019:25
qwerty12Stskeeps, wlan-cal output is ok and it works well in maemo19:25
qwerty12Stskeeps, wait, I'll get syslog running19:25
Stskeepsqwerty12: alright19:25
Stskeepsand upstart-logd19:26
Meizirkki qwerty12: try running wlan-cal after you're booted, i had the same problem when i tested ubuntu-MID19:26
t_s_ohmm, mnotes + voice search = microsoft recite...19:26
qwerty12Meizirkki, thanks, will try that after I've got the log :)19:26
* Stskeeps ponders if mer can survive the pizza test of usefulness19:26
Stskeeps(can it be used to order pizza online.)19:26
qwerty12Stskeeps, modify for your favourite pizza shop in .dk :.19:27
b-manreal-world testing :)19:27
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slonopotamusStskeeps, hmm... what do you mean by 'good at'? i built a working one :)19:29
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Stskeepsslonopotamus: better than me, i guess19:30
slonopotamusStskeeps, i just used gentoo tools19:30
qwerty12out of question, to set root password within a chroot, do I need to have /proc, /sys, /dev etc binded?19:31
johnxchroot /target passwd19:31
qwerty12yep, thanks :)19:32
slonopotamusStskeeps, crossdev -S arm-gentoo-linux-gnueabi, patience and you get a cross-toolchain :)19:32
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* qwerty12 <3's avahi19:33
slonopotamusStskeeps, + crossdev-wrappers and you get emerge that is targeted at folder/arch you're building for19:33
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* Meizirkki watches installer unpacking mer rootfs19:34
slonopotamusStskeeps, up  to make.conf tweaking19:35
Stskeepsalso, 'Browse installable applications'19:36
Stskeepsbut some of them are not installable19:36
johnxheh...funny battery charger thread :)19:36
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GeneralAntilles"Browse application catalog" ?19:36
Stskeepsyeah i guess19:36
GeneralAntillesI mean, if we're gonna insist on "catalog" might as well use it enough so people recognize it.19:36
qwerty12"Browse or die"19:37
GeneralAntillesUp, timeless has got "Available applications"19:37
johnxif we put browse people will also expect a random button...19:38
johnxfor when they're in the mood for a new app but don't really care what it is19:39
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Stskeepsok, almost passed the pizza test19:41
Stskeepswebsite almost made me require flash19:41
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Stskeepsjeremiah: oh, one question for you, even though your first work day is still some time away :)19:42
Stskeepsjeremiah: if pinning was in use, would apt-get dist-upgrade force an upgrade to the pinned repository's version, if the pinning priority was higher?19:42
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Stskeepsexample is, we want to patch apt. we pin mer repository on a higher priority than ubuntu, but apt is brought in through debootstrap. would subsequent pinning and apt-get dist-upgrade force an upgrade of apt?19:43
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, 16th. :P19:43
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: hehe19:44
johnxwell, it's the 16th now19:44
Stskeepsjesus, its me and the fiancees 2nd year day tomorrow19:44
johnxand Stskeeps, I'm pretty sure the answer is yes19:44
Stskeepsjohnx: ok19:44
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johnxalso, we can pin apps individually19:46
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johnxthe way we're doing now is pretty much the blunt force trauma approach :)19:46
Stskeepsit works..19:46
johnxand so does blunt force trauma for a certain subset of problems19:47
Stskeepsonly thing i remember from optimization19:47
* johnx learned it in auto repair 101: applied roadside emergency maintenance19:48
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MeizirkkiStskeeps: i'm in mer now, what's needed to test?19:50
MeizirkkiFn not working19:50
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johnxMeizirkki, did you already run this: /usr/bin/gconftool-2 -s -t bool /apps/osso/inputmethod/keyboard_available true19:51
Meizirkkijohnx, noi didn't. thanks19:51
StskeepsMeizirkki: fn not working? gimme a lshal output :/19:53
JerhuMHello, have french channel for maemo ?19:53
johnxaaargh...fn not enter. sorry Meizirkki19:53
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Meizirkkijohnx: hehe, it least my enter work now :P19:54
infobotMeizirkki meant: johnx: hehe, it least my enter works now :P19:54
johnxJerhuM, I haven't heard about one. But, I know some people in this channel speak French.19:54
MeizirkkiStskeeps, the whole lshal or just keyboard?19:55
StskeepsMeizirkki: just the keyboard i guess19:55
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JerhuMok thanks johnx19:56
StskeepsMeizirkki: ok, lshal > file.something and scp it to trac if its ok19:57
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JerhuMQuelqu'un peut me poster son sources list pour maemo 2008 diablo pour un nokia n810 ?20:00
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qwerty12Your English sounds readable, why not just try and post your question in English?20:01
MeizirkkiStskeeps, lshal.file now uploaded20:01
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StskeepsMeizirkki: thank you20:02
StskeepsMeizirkki: to
qwerty12Stskeeps, is your latest?20:02
Meizirkkioh, wait, i forgot ~/www20:03
qwerty12Thanks :)20:03
Jaffaevening, all20:03
johnxJerhuM, /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list ?20:03
MeizirkkiStskeeps, now uploaded to ~/www20:03
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jagernothow do i find out if my app is in extras?20:04
johnxon your tablet: apt-get update && apt-cache policy pkgname20:05
jagernotfrom the web?20:05
qwerty12jagernot, your debs are there but you may have to wait an hour until the list of packages get updated20:05
johnxbrowse extras directly20:05
jagernotqwerty12: thanks for checking but that has been up for two days :D20:06
StskeepsMeizirkki: can you grab a similar one from Maemo too? (you're very helpful)20:06
Meizirkkiyes i can :)20:06
JerhuMyes johnx20:08
wazdoh crap, MWC already started :)20:08
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wazdI thought they will launch on 1620:09
johnxwazd, 16th in what timezone? :P20:09
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GeneralAntillesNot johnx's dirty liar timezone.20:10
johnxGeneralAntilles, oi! Don't hate on the future20:10
MeizirkkiStskeeps, lshal from maemo uploaded20:10
wazdjohnx: hmm... barcelona has  GMT -2 or 1 I think20:11
StskeepsMeizirkki: thanks20:11
JerhuMthanks johnx20:11
wazdjohnx: so they can't have 16 before me :P20:11
johnxwazd, then they started early it seems20:11
johnxJerhuM, thank :)20:11
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wazdNokia's keynote should be at 9AM GMT20:12
GeneralAntillesA tablet announcement there would be a pretty big step for Maemo, methinks.20:13
qwerty12So, who's gonna sniper Nokia if they don't announce the next tablet? :)20:13
johnxGeneralAntilles, so what an integrated HSPA radio20:13
johnxs/sniper/frozen trout/20:13
roopeI can just imagine the comments from Frank Wagner, either way.20:14
johnxroope, ...and others :/20:14
wazdGeneralAntilles: announcement will breath in some fresh air in Maemo lungs for sure)20:14
GeneralAntillesHa! I know why we need to have the Summit in Helsinki.20:14
wazdGeneralAntilles: People really tired to compare n810 vs everything)20:14
johnxs/so what an/so would an/ <- eep20:15
StskeepsMeizirkki: afterwards that, in mer chroot, mv /usr/share/hal/fdi/information/20thirdparty/10-nokia-tablets.fdi /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/20thirdparty/     (because i am potentially an idiot.)20:15
Stskeepsand boot into mer20:15
GeneralAntillesjohnx, that's already been announced.20:15
johnxGeneralAntilles, that's my point :)20:15
GeneralAntillesjohnx, oh, right we've already had the step.20:16
GeneralAntillesWell, stage-time next to S60 still seems like another big step to me.20:16
MeizirkkiStskeeps: ookay20:16
johnxI agree. I think we'll see it happen in littler steps as Nokia at large gets comfortable with the work of their Maemo R&D section20:16
JerhuMit's possible to simulate right click with stylet ?20:17
qwerty12tap n' hold20:17
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Stskeepsyou know, what surprises me the most is how bloody sturdy these damn tablets are20:17
johnxsteps so far: Adding the tablets to the N series, announcing with an HSPA radio, integrating with Nokia desktop apps, paying Navicore to bring Map20:17
GeneralAntillesjohnx, it'll be interesting to see the option between Maemo or Symbian on Nokia's smartphones.20:17
MeizirkkiStskeeps, the /usr/share/hal/fdi/information/20thirdparty/ dir is empty in my Diablo installation ..20:18
StskeepsMeizirkki: yes, hence why i am an idiot, and i said in Mer chroot :P20:18
Stskeepschroot into the mer partition20:18
Stskeepsi just had my tablet fly across my office cos my foot caught the charger cable20:19
johnxGeneralAntilles, I doubt we'll ever see them on *exactly* the same hardware, but yeah, it will be quite interesting. A lot of the old players in the game are doing some surprising things these last couple years :)20:19
Stskeepsand even if battery and sd slot holder inside popped out and back panel popped off..20:19
Stskeepsboots fine.20:19
MeizirkkiStskeeps: oh, i missunderstood, sorry20:19
StskeepsMeizirkki: hey, at least i didn't nuke your maemo installation :P20:19
johnxmine has scuff marks from exposure to concrete O_o; my zauruses have held up similarly and they even have moving parts though20:20
johnxwhat it really goes to show you is how fragile laptops are20:20
GeneralAntillesThose chargers are dangerous20:21
* Meizirkki boots to Mer20:21
GeneralAntillesI like it when I forget mine's plugged in and try to pick it up too quickly.20:21
jaskayeah, ive had cellphones and laptops fly from that20:21
johnxGeneralAntilles, yup. and they're the biggest weak point of the whole physical/mechanical construction20:21
soapIt isn't just that laptops are more fragile, but that the mass is so much greater.  More mass = more energy to dissipate upon deceleration = more damage.20:22
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soapwell, I guess that could be a definition of "fragile" - but it is more a matter of physics than build quality.20:22
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jaskai remember some old nmt phone, you could throw them on a brick wall and only the wall would get hurt, call wouldnt be dropped :20:23
johnxmostly thinking about fans and hard discs20:23
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MeizirkkiStskeeps, Fn key still dead :(20:24
StskeepsMeizirkki: lshal again20:24
MeizirkkiStskeeps, uploaded20:25
StskeepsMeizirkki: blast20:26
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StskeepsMeizirkki: grab , remove 10-nokia-tablets.fdi, and put this in /usr/share/hal/fdi/policy/10osvendor/10-keymaps.fdi20:29
Stskeeps10-keymap.fdi sorry20:30
Meizirkkii replace the existing file?20:33
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MeizirkkiStskeeps, Fn key still dead :(20:36
Stskeepslshal :/20:37
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Meizirkkishould i have the n810-slideout-kb-xmodmap package installed?20:37
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Stskeepswell, no, not after the grab20:38
Stskeepsbut we just removed the file so20:38
MeizirkkiStskeeps, uploaded20:38
Stskeepsok, well, the issue is that the keyboard should point to 'nokiarx44' as keyboard model.20:39
Stskeepsin xkb.model20:40
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JerhuMjohnx: why when i replace hildon-application-manager-list, in the option of the application manager (gui) it keep former list of repository ?20:41
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johnxJerhuM, the list is also stored in another file20:42
JerhuMok where please ?20:43
johnxI don't remember. I'm looking20:43
StskeepsMeizirkki: ok, hmm, setxkbmap -model nokiarx4420:43
MeizirkkiStskeeps, and reboot?20:44
StskeepsMeizirkki: no, go test now if Fn works :P20:44
Meizirkkiit doesn't20:44
Stskeepssetxkbmap -print20:44
qwerty12_N800JerhuM, johnx: /etc/hildon-application-manager/catalogues :)20:45
Stskeepsi need a n810. :P20:45
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qwerty12_N800where's your sense of N800 patriotism? :p20:46
johnxqwerty12_N800, ah. thought it was something like that, but I guess it doesn't exist if h-a-m hasn't managed to update it's list yet :)20:46
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: it is still there but i have to support rx-44 too..20:46
JerhuMthanks qwerty12_N800 and johnx :)20:46
qwerty12_N800johnx: heh :)20:46
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: I say forget them :P20:46
luke-jrany suggestions for charging my N810 before the charger arrives? >.>20:47
johnxluke-jr, have any friends with Nokia phones?20:47
qwerty12_N800buy an E90 and put the battery in there20:47
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StskeepsMeizirkki: know what a ssh tunnel is?20:48
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Stskeepswell it is basically a way for me to access the ssh server on your tablet :P you run a command and i can go back through that tunnel and log in to your mer installation20:49
luke-jrjohnx: no idea20:50
MeizirkkiStskeeps, okay for me, but my ip address is local only..20:50
johnxluke-jr, time to find out :>20:50
StskeepsMeizirkki: and yes, the good thing about ssh tunnels is they don't care about that :P20:50
luke-jrany way to track a package w/o the tracking code? :x20:50
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JerhuMhum /etc/hildon-application-manager/catalogues have ugly syntax to modify , johnx please send me your :)20:51
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johnxMeizirkki, basically you make an ssh tunnel that has one end on your tablet and one end on a machine that Stskeeps has access to20:52
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johnxJerhuM, almost all software you want is in the extras repository ( )20:56
JerhuMthanks yet20:57
johnxStskeeps, ok, looks like enter works now on the zaurus keyboard :) is h-i-m-e-p still supposed to pop up?21:01
Stskeepsjohnx: yeah.. that is another issue21:01
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johnxwell then it works21:01
wazdomg, SE released 12 mpx phone21:06
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oliwazd: people like numbers21:08
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StskeepsMeizirkki: any Fn now?21:11
Stskeeps(i switched layout to being Fi)21:11
Stskeepsor fisenoda, which sounds like a very dirty word in danish21:11
MeizirkkiStskeeps, no Fn key :(21:12
StskeepsMeizirkki: how about rest?21:12
Stskeepsfinnish specific stuff21:12
Meizirkkiminus is on its place, but ä andö are æ and ø21:14
Stskeepsok, so some of them are wrong..21:14
Meizirkkii think ä and ö are on their place, but font or something just does not support them21:15
Meizirkkiwait a bit21:15
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Meizirkkinope, they aren't working any better in Maemopad21:16
Stskeepsi wonder..21:16
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StskeepsMeizirkki: reboot, reestablish ssh tunnel21:18
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olihow to redirect port using iptables? on a linux pc, not a nokia21:21
hahloStskeeps: can i localize mer virtual keyboard?21:22
luke-jroli: IP doesn't support that21:22
Stskeepshahlo: if you edit the source.. we really need someone to work on it21:23
hahlois it c?21:23
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oliluke-jr: ? so how to?21:24
johnxStskeeps, does our h-i-m 'example plugin' use different key layouts than the maemo/diablo h-i-m stylus keyboard?21:25
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Meiz_merStskeeps, tunnel open21:25
Stskeepsjohnx: i dont even think the plugin is there21:25
StskeepsMeiz_mer: ta21:25
StskeepsMeiz_mer: ok, test fn21:26
johnxhmm? what do you mean 'not there'? I mean the h-i-m onscreen keyboard we use right now. (I have I feeling I'm missing something big)21:26
luke-jroli: you can only redirect to the local PC21:26
Stskeepsjohnx: as in the example plugin is not really functional21:26
luke-jroli: otherwise, the closest thing is a proxy of some form21:26
Meiz_merStskeeps: not working .21:27
StskeepsMeiz_mer: k, hmm21:27
oliluke-jr: no way :| i just want to make my nokia accesible from Internet via VNC21:27
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luke-jroli: ok, so either put it on the Internet or setup a proxy21:28
johnxluke-jr, are you sure?21:28
olijohnx: it's unbelieveable for me, that iptables cannot forward packets to other host...21:29
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johnxoli, I'm about 90% sure I was using iptables for that exact purpose, but it was on a wrt54g and I set it up with a web frontend21:30
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luke-jroli: it can, but the return packets won't go the right way if you do that21:30
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StskeepsMeiz_mer: ok, getting closer21:31
oliluke-jr: but connection from WAN will work, won't it?21:31
JaffaInteresting: someone claims to have played with the RX-51:
luke-jroli: no21:31
luke-jroli: unless your N8x0's gateway is that same Linux machine21:31
oliluke-jr: should i draw it for you? ;|21:32
johnxoli, I see what luke-jr is saying. basically, if you want to be able to reach your tablet from outside the network the machine you use as a router/NAT needs to be the same machine your do port redirection on21:32
olijohnx: that's exactly what my situation is21:33
jacekowskijohnx: no it doesn't21:33
johnxand your linux desktop box is the router/NAT?21:33
olijohnx: yep. I share Internet via iptables to LAN21:33
jacekowskijohnx: iptables can redirect to other hosts as well21:33
johnxjacekowski, ah. sorry, I was just talking about what would accomplish his goals in his specific case21:34
StskeepsJaffa: hype before the hit? :P21:34
JaffaStskeeps: adds some (not much, admittedly) weight to the hope of an announcement at MWC21:35
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, bastards!21:35
johnxoli, google for iptables accept redirect21:36
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StskeepsMeiz_mer: reboot, tunnel (sorry) :P21:36
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Meiz_merStskeeps, ssh tunnel open21:41
Stskeepstest fn and such21:43
Meiz_merstill no fn21:43
Stskeeps.. wtf.21:43
Stskeepsok, going to pop up Xev again21:43
Stskeepsplease press fn21:43
Stskeepsok, ta21:44
johnxstart-hildon does the enter magic. first-boot-wizard should finish building in a sec. then it will too21:49
johnxoff to sleep21:49
johnxgood luck with the fn key guys21:49
Stskeepsalright, ta21:49
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Stskeeps  key <I177>   {      [ XF86Phone             ]       };21:58
* Stskeeps ponders idly21:58
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Stskeepshow does the n97 look again? does it have media keys on it? like play/stop,rewind, etc21:58
rm_youmissed johnx21:59
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GAN800Stskeeps, like the N96? I don't believe so.22:00
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StskeepsGAN800: well, there are some rather awkward buttons in rx-51 definition22:00
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, what, like "Porn"?22:00
Stskeepsnm, i'm seeing things22:01
lcuklol @ a porn button22:02
Stskeepsget back to making liqporn, lcuk22:02
lcukyou are the one with your tongue out - don't get electrocuted licking your screen22:02
JaffaUnset jelly?22:02
lcukJaffa, that guy who claims to have seen next gen device might be thinking of the n9722:03
lcuki know i was when we were discussing 5800 before22:03
StskeepsMeiz_mer: test fn, if fail, reboot22:03
Jaffalcuk: maybe - he knows enough to know Maemo, but not enough to think that porting a complex media system might be tricky for someone with no programming experience.22:04
lcukive run top, and it shows "maemo-launcher" as a hi running app - how can i find out what its actually running22:04
* Meiz_mer reboots...22:04
* Stskeeps curses22:04
lcuklol jaffa yeah i noticed the flaw in the plans22:04
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wazdoh. my. god.
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Meiz_merStskeeps, ssh open22:07
lcukwazd, you say omg like you fell on this by accident.   you sat there and custom rendered your own hello kitty ti calc design.22:07
wazdlcuk: that was for GeneralAntilles :)22:08
lcukor is the omg because you want in on the beta test22:08
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Stskeepsqwerty12-mer: you succeeded? :o22:09
GeneralAntilleswazd, you've found your new dream game, then?22:09
GeneralAntillesThe ioquake3 forums were Hello Kitty-themed for a while.22:09
StskeepsMeiz_mer: still here?22:10
lcukdid you campaign to keep em that way?22:10
GeneralAntillesAhah, it's been updated:
GeneralAntillesThe hover effects are fun.22:10
qwerty12-merStskeeps, yep, edited tablet-wireless script  & installed wicd22:10
Stskeepsqwerty12-mer: good :)22:11
wazdrm_you: xD22:11
wazdGeneralAntilles: yep :P22:11
Stskeepsqwerty12-mer: be aware that you might need to adapt the wifi power saving yourswelf22:11
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Stskeepsit depends on NM22:11
wazdI'm looking for some dumb but  funny game to reset my brain :)22:12
qwerty12-merStskeeps, wifi-psm doesn't really bother me in mer :)22:12
timelE61iwazd: traffic? :)22:13
Stskeepsqwerty12-mer: well i meant more like it will get warm ;)22:13
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wazdtimelE61i: what?)22:13
Meiz_n810sorry Sts, nm-applet stopped working22:13
StskeepsMeiz_n810: ah, hate when that happens22:13
* Meiz_n810 installs wifi-radar22:13
qwerty12-merStskeeps, I've had that happen in offline mode ;)22:14
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Meiz_n810qwerty12-mer, you got wlan working ?22:14
Meiz_n810sorry, i just checked #mer22:15
qwerty12-meryep :)22:15
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Stskeepsshould i be scared i didn't receive any maemo-community mail today? :P22:19
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lcukcan i screw up global memory allocation by abusing malloc/free.  ie not freeing memory properly after closing app etc (im used to windows memory alloc stuff still)22:22
bensonlcuk: when your app is closed, the memory will be free again.22:23
bensonBut there's no good excuse for not freeing things...22:24
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Meiz_merStskeeps: tunnel opeen22:25
lcukbenson, i know that, i just went wayyyyyy ott and allocated and freed muchly and made the entire machine crawl22:25
lcukclosing re-opening didnt help, so i wondered if it was22:26
bensonWell, if everything else got swapped out to make room for your mess, it'll be slow till it gets swapped back in. Maybe that'22:26
bensons what you saw?22:26
lcuksounds reasonable, but it was persistent - mem alloc when not running was at 120mb22:27
lcukyeah, dont normally notice such things.  machines had a few hiccups last day or so anyway.  shall find out soon22:28
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lcuki might take this as a reasonable time to put mer on22:28
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StskeepsMeiz_mer: test kthx22:31
lcukmer heads: the wifi works, but it doesnt powersave - is that the same as mine currently (I use adhoc) - will i get similar life expectancy?22:31
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Meiz_merStskeeps: still no fn22:31
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, no.22:32
Stskeepslcuk: it does powersave now22:32
Stskeeps(in 0.8(22:32
StskeepsMeiz_mer: wtf22:32
StskeepsMeiz_mer: popping xev up22:32
lcukheh, but not for adhoc22:32
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Meiz_merStskeeps: Fn key right?22:33
StskeepsMeiz_mer: yes22:33
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: hum?22:33
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Macerdo people still use tar for actual backing up?22:34
Maceri have to xfer an entire fbsd system over to a new one22:34
Stskeepsi do occasionally22:36
Stskeepsthe Mer snapshots are too..22:36
Maceryah? i need to start working on getting fbsd off the dual p3 and put it on the esxi box22:36
harbaumlcuk: Ad-Hoc really is a bad idea22:37
Macermaking 2 fbsd VMs .. one dns and one shell22:37
lcukharbaum, doesnt cause me problems and allows completely free roaming with my cloud of machines22:37
Macerharbaum: i have to use adhoc for my G122:37
Macerit works rather well22:37
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lcukwhether at home or work or in a hotel or anywhere i can connect22:38
Maceras a matter of fact.. i am on it now22:38
harbaumad-hoc is being hacked within seconds22:38
Macerwell.. adhoc is the only way i can tether my G1 ;)22:38
lcukharbaum, so hack me22:39
* benson iz in ur ad-hok snifin ur paketz22:39
harbaumas long as you don't have to pay the bill and don't care about your data22:39
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lcukthey can have the internet connection - oh wait, sorry its just my machines22:39
Maceryou're going to sniff my ssh pkts? :)22:39
* lcuk renames his adhoc to "free internet"22:39
lcukheh yeah macer, i forgot thats how i actually connect as well22:39
bensonName it "Free Public WiFi" -- then nobody connects.22:40
lcukeverybody connects at least once, thats how it spread22:40
harbaumyour dialup is running through ssh?22:40
Maceryou can set iptables up on the G1 so that only specific IPs can aaccess it22:40
lcukoh, you mean the home connection22:40
Maceri'm stil waiting for someone to come out with an AP app for android.. that would fucking own22:40
Maceri'm actually kind of glad i made an xp VM on the esxi box22:41
qwerty12-merlcuk, btw, liqbase doesn't agree with xsp in mer22:41
Macernow i can rdc and manage it from itself22:41
Macerhow ghetto22:41
Macerusing a VM to manage esxi :)22:42
lcukharbaum, i have trouble connecting to my own internet from sitting at the frontdoor with n810, if someone in my living room wants to use the internet they are free to22:42
harbaumap mode will be interesting for the maemo5 units with hsdpa22:42
lcukqwerty12-mer, xsp isnt technically a dependency anymore really22:42
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bensonlcuk: I can roam my entire apartment with my phone sitting in the window and keep a BT link.22:42
bensonMy BT is stronger than you WiFi! :P22:43
benson(or my apartment's smaller...)22:43
lcukmy wifi gives me detailed diagnostic zooming liqbase information :P22:43
qwerty12-merlcuk, yeah, just a heads up22:44
harbaumlcuk, just because your devices don't use proper antennas doesn't mean other people don't use better ones22:44
* lcuk curses it cos the lag hasnt gone after a reboot22:44
bensonMaybe something removed your swap file?22:44
Macerharbaum: are they going to allow it to have an ap mode? :)22:44
lcuknahhh, its code related22:44
Macerthat would be awesome22:44
harbauma nice antenna is the best way to download illegal stuff etc ...22:44
bensonSometimes it seems to forget swap is on, although I haven't had it in months...22:45
lcukliqbase classic is still slick22:45
harbaummacer, how should they prevent us?22:45
Macerby keeping the wifi driver closed?22:45
harbaumthey claim maemo5 will be 100% open22:46
RST38hOk, ATI85 version 1.2 is now in Extras22:46
Macerharbaum: the same thing was said aboud android and symbian22:46
bensonharbaum: No, they don't claim that; they claim it'll be much more open.22:46
RST38hWhoever wanted state preservation and [2nd][on] working, you have got your wishes22:46
lcukharbaum, wheres the 100% open claim22:46
harbaumok ... i thought i remembered that ...22:46
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bensonThey're keeping a bunch of things value-adding differentiators closed, like all their sucky applets.22:47
lcuki heard much more open and working with the community and transparent process, but never 100%22:47
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GAN800harbaum, the number is about 80%22:47
bensons/ v/ they call v/22:47
infobotbenson meant: They're keeping a bunch of things they call value-adding differentiators closed, like all their sucky applets.22:47
lcukand to be honest, that doesnt bother me - im not afraid of closed software/drivers as long as they are actively maintained22:48
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Maceresxi is great22:48
Macerif only they had clients for something other than windows22:48
Macerthat's its only drawback22:48
harbaumi'd be willing to use a usb wifi adaptor if that gives me a non-webwashed wlan dialup at work22:49
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Macerand it's lack of hardware support. but i suppose you build around esxi if you're planning to use it22:49
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Meiz_merStskeeps, FN WORKS !!!22:49
Stskeepsthen what am i doing right now?22:49
StskeepsMeiz_mer: i have no idea why it is working.22:49
harbaumlcuk: the ap mode issue shows pretty well the problem of closed source: You can't do the nifty stuff22:50
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StskeepsMeiz_mer: does it work now too?22:51
fireun"open, and extend"22:51
Stskeepswtf :P22:51
Stskeepsbut at least it means im going in the right direction with the compile i am doing right now22:52
GAN800The RX-51's WiFi is open.22:52
harbaumGAN800; What chip?22:52
* bef0rd tries ATI8522:52
GAN800A TI model, don't have the number handy.22:52
Meiz_merStskeeps: whoops, i closed the xterm. is the connection still open?22:54
StskeepsMeiz_mer: nop, but im waiting for something to compile anyway22:54
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harbaumthere's imho no master mode firmware for the wl1251 :-(22:55
GAN800What's wrong with Bluetooth PAN?22:56
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harbaumfew client devices support bt-pan22:56
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GAN800Most modern ones do.22:57
Meiz_merStskeeps, i'll boot to maemo and go to sleep now, ok? i can leave mer+ssh open too, if you want22:57
GAN800Real computers will, anyway.22:57
StskeepsMeiz_mer: nah, its fine - thanks for helping22:57
Stskeepsthe compile will take a bit and i need to edit a file so22:58
Meiz_mernp, good night22:58
StskeepsAndrewfblack: hello!22:58
Stskeeps(on to the next victim..)22:58
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harbaumbut a mobile ap is not for normal computers23:00
Macerwow.. this fbsd install is going slow as shit.. 185K from freebsd.org23:00
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Macermaybe that's from me using the xp vm on the same box with rdc23:01
harbaummy cars head unit e.g. can do wifi client but not bt pan client23:01
Maceryour car's head unit? haha23:02
wazdlooks like there there are absolutely no designers in Korea23:03
harbaummacer, no joke23:04
Maceri'm sure it's not23:04
Maceri just thought it was funny that of all the clients you could think of.. you chose "my car's head unit"23:04
wazdhow the hell could such a big vendor as Asus/Garmin make such a dumb icons23:04
Macerthat's extremely niche23:04
Stskeepsyou should see my universitys new logo..23:04
harbaumbuilding such things is my job23:05
Stskeeps (top left corner)23:05
Stskeepsnow, what does that look like to you.23:05
GAN800wazd, too bad they're putting out a WinMob version.23:06
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wazdStskeeps: well, thats the parts of "mer" letters :)23:06
MacerStskeeps: hahah23:06
wazdStskeeps: u :)23:06
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Macernobody noticed the similarity?23:06
wazdStskeeps: ofcourse it looks like some part of the body but I'm optimist))23:06
Maceri bet the logo designer got a good laugh23:06
StskeepsMacer: i am not kidding.. they put so much money into the new logo23:07
Maceri'm sure they did23:07
Maceri couldn't believe how much money my company paid for a new logo23:07
Macerthat looks like a green at&t symbol23:07
Macerwhat a racket :)23:07
Stskeepsnot even the professors can take this logo seriously :>23:08
wazdStskeeps: we have cell-carrier:
Macerwtf... my damn vm just kind of stopped on me23:09
Macerdamnit... i knew i should have picked a different site than the one23:09
wazdStskeeps: I bet your university chief's name is Dick xD23:09
Macereither that.. or the hard drive in the box is about to explode23:09
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* Stskeeps backs away23:10
lcukStskeeps, i found the bits of the logo that fell off23:10
lcukthey are at the bottom right of the page ;)23:10
harbaumso nothing about the new devices on mwc?23:10
lcukare we due for some? i thought the roadmap had been released23:10
Stskeepslcuk: i am not kidding, they invented a whole alphabet for this stuff..23:11
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harbaumi dunno. was it?23:11
* RST38h once again notices how he hates the "improved" URL bar in FF323:11
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: all i can say is that logo puts the ic in .dk :)23:11
lcukRST38h, :D the cool bar - its horrendous23:11
MacerRST38h: me too23:11
Maceri can't stand that crap23:11
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: when the revolution comes, there are some graphics artists who will be put against the wall and shot.23:12
RST38hthose 5 second delays every time I start typing something there, they are awful23:12
Stskeepsi am willing to bet this was some 2 million dkk order that backfired and they thought they just had to use or it would have had been a waste of money..23:12
lcuk"quick, make it worthwhile, create a font"23:13
* timeless sighs23:13
timelessmy e61i can't handle a 4' fall23:13
qwerty12_N800RST38h: my problem is somewhat the opposite - I've grown too used to it and am lazy with what I type in it and get pissed off when it doesn't show something23:13
lcukmmm i fscked the mmc again and its working23:14
lcuki need something a bit more stable to work from, time to buy a new one23:14
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* lcuk used to wear out floppies and hard drives23:14
RST38hqwerty: well, it shows me wrong stuff too, every now and then23:14
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RST38hbut delay is the worst "feature" of it23:14
timelessqwerty: what's the name of the theme picker?23:15
timelessor is there some way for me to update and get it?23:15
harbaumlcuk: where's that roadmap?23:15
qwerty12_N800timeless: hildon-theme-selector23:15
qwerty12_N800timeless: you can just apt-get it and it'll work23:16
Macerwtf fbsd23:16
harbaumlcuk: that's about software only23:16
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lcukharbaum, dunno then23:19
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* lcuk doesnt care about specific looks yet, we know the guts (beagleboard) and know it will be in a handheld. wont it look like the omap3 tablets we have seen already (on youtube from movial) ???23:21
timelessqwerty: yum23:23
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timelesswe should consider supporting gettext ;-)23:24
harbaumbtw: the chinook promotion interface is still broken23:24
qwerty12_N800is the chinook builder still broken?23:24
harbaumdunno, last time i tried the armel worked, but i386 was broken23:25
harbaumi really need to release a new version of my osm editor, it damages the osm main database ...23:25
harbaumif only the promotion interface would let me ...23:26
qwerty12_N800ahh :/. I think, looking the logs of my failed chinook package, the Packages.gz is fubared and the promotion interface gets its info from Packages.gz afaik23:26
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harbaummaybe. it complains about something in the repos not being in gzip format. that may be the packages.gz23:28
lcukmmm tearing in an odd manner has appeared after being vanished for months23:29
* lcuk thinks he foobared his tablet23:29
RST38hlcuk: Blizzard finally given up on you? =)23:29
lcuknot sure whether its how im pushing it, im using all the methods i use normally, but im experiencing things tearing through the xv shm block (i dont write until XV itself tells me it finished sending the data)23:30
RST38hsome other app may be interfering?23:31
Stskeepslcuk: maybe the new Xomap changes are disturbing you?23:32
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lcukyeah its more noticable when charging (updating the icon 25/50/75/100 etc) but its happening even when not charging23:32
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* RST38h kinda fixed the url bar23:33
RST38hlcuk: I would blame the cpu load applet23:33
lcukhave a job to, i dont have that23:34
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ssvblcuk: what are the frequency scaling settings?23:36
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lcukssvb, only ever adjust between ondemand and performance, lemme check current23:37
* timeless is wondering how to patchbomb from gmail23:37
lcukstandard "ondemand" havent adjusted since reboots earlier23:37
ssvblcuk: tearing is a pretty bad problem when running at low clock frequency as screen updates are very slow23:38
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lcukssvb, its fast though most of the time, i just get noticable extreme glitches sometimes - i use the XvShmPutImage with the "raise completion event" and wait until thats back at me before touching the planes23:39
ssvblcuk: try to enforce 400MHz cpu clock frequency and check if it helps23:39
* lcuk runs liqbase23:39
lcukabsolutely no difference at performance23:40
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Stskeepsanyone good with HAL and their fdis, here? :P23:40
timelesswhen you find someone lemme know23:41
ssvblcuk: do you mean it does not help with tearing?23:41
lcukill tinker, because it works smoothly sometimes then has a benny and has horrid effect (first thing it does with a screen rebuild is clear the buffer to black, then draws picture icons or whatever on) sometimes whole images are missing!23:41
lcukno ssvb, its possible something in my code thats disabling my flag, but very annoying to return now23:42
ssvblcuk: if your application does not have a consistent high cpu load, cpu clock frequency may scale down sometimes causing horrible tearing23:42
lcukssvb, nope, in powersave mode (normal) its great and tearfree23:43
lcukbut then sometimes it tears like a bitch23:44
ssvblcuk: hmm, it's all very confusing23:44
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ssvblcuk: ok, then it is somewhat understandable, in normal mode having heavy tearing is not something unexpected23:45
AFBN810anyone been able to get Friendscard from garage to install?23:46
Stskeepshello AFBN810!23:46
ssvblcuk: it can be especially confusing if you optimize your application to reduce cpu load23:46
lcukno ssvb, its very unexpected to tear.  (in powersave mode) normally, it runs simply slower, less fps.23:46
ssvblcuk: and get worse tearing as a result23:46
lcukstill no noticable tearing23:46
AFBN810Hey Stskeeps23:46
lcukthats the effect i see23:46
lcukbut then for some reasons occasionally tearing phases in for a few seconds23:47
lcuklike inteference on a tv23:47
lcukthen drifts away again23:47
ssvblcuk: that probably happens when cpu switches between 165/400 MHz23:47
lcuki get black and white photos (cos the color planes vanished)23:47
ssvblcuk: you can easily check it by disabling frequency scaling23:47
lcukor no photos (cos all vanished!)23:47
RST38hand more:,8599,1878462,00.html23:48
lcukim locked to powersave mode now23:48
GeneralAntillesI find this thinking baffling:
GeneralAntillesThings are obviously related because I think they're related.23:48
lcukill look deeper ssvb, its feeling more like the new code.  liqbase default cannot visibly reproduce it23:48
lcukbut then again, its doing different stuff23:49
ssvblcuk: try 'echo null > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor && echo 0 > /sys/power/op_active' for 400MHz23:49
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: isn't it going to be wonderful when we can just point to a control panel applet? ..23:49
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, yes.23:49
GeneralAntillesUnfortunately it'll just be replaced by something else.23:49
ssvblcuk: and 'echo null > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor && echo 3 > /sys/power/op_active' for 165MHz23:49
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: hehe, yes :P23:50
lcukssvb, ok, but wont powersave and perofrmance do that?23:50
ssvblcuk: have no idea23:50
ssvblcuk: but this is guaranteed to work23:51
lcukits always appeared to, in powersave i get much less fps in a stable locked at one speed manner23:51
lcuksame in performance, but lots of fps23:51
lcukin ondemand it does the changes23:51
GeneralAntilles"I wish experienced users would be more specific about what order you should setup ad-block and install BattleGweled in."23:51
RST38hGeneral: he is a newbie and he is in a defensive mode now23:52
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: after spending time on iTT you long back to the bookstore or how was it you work(ed before)? :P23:52
RST38hGeneral: give him some slack23:52
GeneralAntillesRST38h, RogerS?23:52
GeneralAntillesHe butted into the thread.23:52
GeneralAntillesHe's not the OP.23:52
lcukno ssvb, still same with the tweaks23:52
lcukill check in code23:52
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, sometimes.23:52
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GeneralAntillesThough at least here there's no expectance of good customer service. :P23:53
lcukthanks though23:53
RST38hGeneral: Well, I see no effective method to flame him in this situation, so it may just be better to ignore =)23:53
ssvblcuk: ok, do you use default kernel? did you try tweaking any tearing related properties for XV?23:53
GeneralAntillesRST38h, I find the mindset baffling is all. ;)23:53
lcukyeah ssvb, its rock solid stable in old liqbase and it comes and goes in this, ill try and pinpoint it23:54
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RST38hMore and more of these things start looking like the tablet...23:54
Stskeepsstar trek padds23:56
RST38hJudging from the number of buttons at the edge, it is rather tablet then iphone23:56
RST38hSts: Padds were iphones all right =)23:56
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Stskeepsa lot of fanboys, or what?23:56
GeneralAntillesTrust me, they're not grabbing their inspiration from Internet Tablets.23:57
RST38hyea, guess so23:57
GeneralAntillesThey're just not quite as radical as Apple.23:57
RST38hApple did manage to kick phone industry's collective ass23:57
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RST38h"With an OS based on Symbian, the Idou continues..." <=== wait, WHAT???23:58
RST38hSony switching to S60?23:58
Macerok.. lets see if this fucks up again23:58
qwerty12_N800RST38h: is it a japanese phone?23:58
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StskeepsRST38h: debian lenny release, symbian on SE .. hell freezing over?23:59
timelessi though sony used to use synbian23:59
RST38hqwerty: apparently not23:59
Maceri had to start over.. that kinda sucsk.. especially since it was putting the fbsd kernel on .. it was almost finished23:59
dick-richardsonI tried easy-deb-chroot and set the cpu to performance...didn't like it and removed it. the cpu has stayed maxed there a way to reset the cpu scaling?23:59
RST38hqwerty: or they would not announce it at MWC23:59
Macerit just kind of stopped on its own and wouldn't keep going23:59

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