IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2009-02-13

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etrunko	ahrg, dput upload is broken.	00:01
etrunko	GeneralAntilles: you there?	00:02
r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: the image seems to created the ssh keys before the reboot, was that changed from during the first boot menu?	00:02
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: it still generates them when the image is generated, and then the wizard will regenerate them to make it secure	00:03
Stskeeps	qwerty12_N800: what was the fix for broken applications menu btw?	00:04
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r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: Thanks, that makes sense	00:05
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: when you get a chance.. definately get the new midori from repository	00:08
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qwerty12_N800	Stskeeps: cp /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu /home/user/.osso/menus/ ; update-desktop-database	00:09
r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: imager just completed	00:10
r2d2rogers	looks like about an hour and 10 minutes	00:11
Stskeeps	k	00:11
Stskeeps	whole imaging process takes about 4h30m so	00:11
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thopiekar	good night and cu l8er :)	00:12
guysoft42	hey um ,does this code look ok to you? it seems to go in to an error and not work	00:13
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guysoft42	(worked with ": eturn "yay"	00:13
guysoft42	return "yay *	00:13
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guysoft42	http://pastebin.com/m72e6ef9c	00:14
r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: something not happy, I get a stopped progress bar after 6 or 7 segments	00:15
guysoft42	it should break in to a newline after 20 chars so the gpe-summery wont have scrollbars	00:15
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: hmm.	00:15
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: of a new imaging?	00:16
r2d2rogers	yup	00:16
r2d2rogers	and no rescue menu	00:16
Stskeeps	and you mkfs.ext3ed before that?	00:16
guysoft42	qwerty12_N800, sorry to nag, but could you just have a look at those 20 lines? i am just not really sure how to write this kind of code	00:16
r2d2rogers	no, I just deleted all the files off the filesystem I had already made	00:16
r2d2rogers	time to try to image again after doing that?	00:16
qwerty12_N800	guysoft42: sorry, i'm not a coder :)	00:17
guysoft42	ah.. um, any coder with a spare second? its reall a short line.. i think i did the string decelerations worng	00:17
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: mm. yeah, lets get that out of the way for good measure :/	00:17
r2d2rogers	k	00:17
r2d2rogers	I'll probably have to report in on that tomorrow, I'm within an hour of leave work time..	00:18
Stskeeps	yeah, its fine	00:18
Stskeeps	its the second year day of my moms passing so i won't be that active, except from tablet, going to my hometown	00:19
Stskeeps	(tomorrow)	00:19
r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: Sorry to hear (even a couple of years later)..	00:19
r2d2rogers	my mom is in hospice now....	00:19
Stskeeps	mm.. life is crap sometimes	00:20
Stskeeps	:looks at what else he can do tonight before collapsing in bed:	00:20
r2d2rogers	can be ::nods::	00:20
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Stskeeps	have i been too severely damaged by this channel, since i write 'hello kitty' instead of 'hello world' when testing if text entry works in a program?	00:22
jaem	yes	00:22
jaem	yes you have	00:22
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jeremiah	No, when you start writing OHAI!, then you know you are damaged.	00:23
qwerty12_N800	Stskeeps: I think it's your inner self coming out ;P	00:23
jaem	question for you folks...	00:23
jaem	I'm picking up one of these: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.19489	00:23
jaem	which uses the hands-free BT protocol to display callerID, and vibration alert on a wristband	00:23
jaem	Is it possible for, say, Mer/Maemo to link with it and display arbitrary data on the screen?	00:24
jaem	you know, for e-mail/IM updates, or similar?	00:24
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r2d2rogers	sounds like a fun project, but I can't answer the doable (or how easily) part.	00:25
jaem	okay... I can look into it - any idea where to start? Would that be part of Bluez, or part of the application software?	00:25
guysoft42	hell, the applet makes hildon crasho now each time..	00:26
benson	guysoft42: Yes, you're not allocationg memory for your strings. Either declare them as fixed size arrays (and somehow know the string won't be too big...) or use malloc and free.	00:26
guysoft42	i tried to.. not sure why it did not do it	00:27
r2d2rogers	jaem: at a gues bluez	00:27
guysoft42	let me try again now	00:27
benson	guysoft42: re: your code, not applet crashes	00:27
guysoft42	benson, is there some maxumum constant for the buffers?	00:27
Stskeeps	guysoft42: particles in the universe, man..	00:28
benson	jaem: looks like fun, definitely possible, but AFAIK there exists no HFP implementation, so you have to write that maybe.	00:28
jaem	benson: I believe Bluez does support it	00:28
jaem	oh wait... maybe not	00:29
benson	guysoft42: IDK, try man event_get_summary_fix	00:29
guysoft42	Stskeeps, i am not sure i got that.. mind you i had a physics exam the other day	00:29
benson	jaem: maybe the new version in Maemo5 does...	00:29
guysoft42	benson, i have direct contact with the developer who wrote that function..	00:29
Stskeeps	benson: otherwise we do have new bluez in mer :P	00:29
guysoft42	benson, i did it :-S	00:29
jaem	benson: would that be included in Mer, then, when it comes out?	00:30
benson	guysoft42: Wait, just realized you're recursing...	00:30
benson	jaem: yes	00:30
Stskeeps	ii bluez 4.29-0ubuntu1 Bluetooth tools and daemons	00:30
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benson	But IDK if it actually does have it yet, just guessing.	00:30
guysoft42	recursing? its not a recurse	00:30
Stskeeps	it does	00:31
guysoft42	ah.. hell!	00:31
Stskeeps	:P	00:31
jaem	the wiki says that HFP 1.5 support is still in the works	00:31
guysoft42	it was not supposed to be a recurse...	00:31
benson	Is it going into an infinite loop, perchance?	00:31
benson	XD	00:31
lcuk	guysoft42, you dont allocate memory before you copy stuff over the pointer	00:31
jaem	recursing? as in, "darn you again!"?	00:31
jaem	hehe	00:31
lcuk	char *tmp; <<<< not initialized	00:31
lcuk	strcpy(tmp,event_get_summary_fix(ev, error)); <<<<<< gets stuff wrote over hte non initialized pointer	00:31
guysoft42	lcuk, i tried doing it with a buffer and it didnt work.. so i tried a pointer.. i know it looks like i dont know C.. but i just thaught id try	00:32
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benson	lcuk: No, gets stuff written all over memory wherevere the uninitialized pointer is pointing...	00:32
lcuk	2 tics	00:32
guysoft42	lubyou, yes i know.. i fixed it.. let me compile and check it.. just a sec	00:32
lcuk	yeah benson, just not where hes expecting ;)	00:32
benson	But it can't even do that, because it recurses in the second argument.	00:32
benson	lcuk: Yeah, but the _pointer_ is just fine. :P	00:33
benson	Only everything else gets clobbered.	00:33
lcuk	guysoft42, whats it actually meant to do ( i know stomping over memory wasnt the intention)	00:33
lcuk	how do you know benson :P it might point back over itself	00:34
guysoft42	yay working so far	00:34
benson	True, it might. I stand corrected.	00:34
lcuk	has anyone got any lemsips by the way	00:34
benson	s/stand/roll on the floor laughing/	00:34
infobot	benson meant: True, it might. I roll on the floor laughing corrected.	00:34
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lcuk	guysoft42, not crashing != working correctly	00:34
lcuk	GuySoft42, that function looks suspiciously like an auto work wrap thingy, but you lose 1 character per line	00:36
lcuk	oooh no even worse :P you stomp over whatever r is on :D	00:37
benson	lcuk: sure? I thought it was clean for wrapping.	00:37
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fuzzybunny_125	hello	00:37
lcuk	misread horrid array syntax ;)	00:37
guysoft42	lcuk, its on the way for == working . and then ill have a patch ready :-)	00:38
fuzzybunny_125	is jonnx there by any chance?	00:38
* lcuk didnt know i could declare externals from within a function		00:38
benson	lcuk: yes, since we're only making one pass through the data, we should just be incrementing pointers...	00:39
benson	It's more fun that way.	00:39
lcuk	keeps on toes i suppose ;)	00:40
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FuzzyBunny_235	sry	00:44
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FuzzyBunny_235	is johnx	00:44
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FuzzyBunny_235	is johnx there	00:45
_FireFox_	Fuzzybunny_235: not shure :P	00:45
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qwerty12_N800	hi _FireFox_	00:45
FuzzyBunny_235	johnx: please respond if u are there	00:45
_FireFox_	hello, qwerty12_N800 :)	00:45
FuzzyBunny_235	are u qwerty _12's clone????	00:46
_FireFox_	no ;p	00:46
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housetier	woohey nokia doesn't know what to do with the packages they asked me to send them MONTHS AGO	00:47
FuzzyBunny_235	im talking to qwerty12	00:47
FuzzyBunny_235	lol	00:47
qwerty12_N800	yes, I'm his clone :)	00:47
benson	Not clones, exactly.	00:48
b-man	hehe	00:48
benson	qwerty12 is a Cylon.	00:48
FuzzyBunny_235	lol. we dont need 2 of him	00:48
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FuzzyBunny_235	sry	00:49
qwerty12_N800	lol, i'm joking :P	00:50
b-man	~burn himself	00:50
* infobot pours gasoline all over himself, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze		00:50
b-man	lol XD	00:50
guysoft42	ok.. one thing i have left - does anyone know how i can get the width of a hildon applet?	00:50
guysoft42	thats all i need	00:50
FuzzyBunny_235	does anyone know any good repo lists for os2008 hacks?	00:50
benson	~extras	00:51
infobot	extra, extra, read all about it, extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras	00:51
FuzzyBunny_235	any sites besides gronmayer	00:51
benson	and extras-devel, if you like that sort of thing	00:51
FuzzyBunny_235	sure	00:51
b-man	....or maemo hackers	00:51
benson	Beyond that, GIYF	00:51
benson	Oh, yes, b-man, mh too.	00:52
FuzzyBunny_235	thanks	00:52
FuzzyBunny_235	but i think i already have maemo-hackers	00:52
FuzzyBunny_235	have you heard any bluetooth hacking apps for os2008?	00:53
FuzzyBunny_235	im too lazy to google	00:54
* b-man googles		00:54
benson	I'm _definitely_ too lazy to google for you, so good luck...	00:54
guysoft42	benson, do you per chance know how i can get the width ofa hildon widget?	00:54
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FuzzyBunny_235	no	00:55
benson	guysoft42: no, 'fraid not.	00:55
FuzzyBunny_235	we hear u	00:55
FuzzyBunny_235	why would you	00:55
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guysoft42	benh, do you know where i might find that in the documentation?	00:55
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b-man	Fuzzybunny_235: wii bluetooth software :) http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/archive/index.php?t-12128.html	00:56
FuzzyBunny_235	cool. it hacks passwords too?	00:56
b-man	no :( i'll look some more	00:57
FuzzyBunny_235	yeah. its not malicious hacking. its more white. im just curious	00:58
b-man	:)	00:59
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guysoft42	benson, * ^	01:00
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b-man	BThack: http://pcwin.com/Utilities/BTCrack/index.htm - but you might need to build it first	01:00
FuzzyBunny_235	i gotta go thanx	01:00
b-man	see ya	01:00
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benson	guysoft42: Not really.	01:02
guysoft42	benson, so should i just set it to a number?	01:03
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benson	Look at other applets, maybe, see what they do?	01:04
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benson	s/applet/widget/	01:04
infobot	benson meant: Look at other widgets, maybe, see what they do?	01:04
benson	(I'm not even sure what this code was a piece of, but telling me won'	01:05
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benson	t help; I'm just not real clueful about Hildon programming)	01:05
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guysoft42	ok.. i think i have a patch.. the only thing that is missing is that it breaks line after 20 chars and a whitespace, not according to the window's width	01:16
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fhjs	few questions here, im trying to use leafpad to edit my sources.list file so i can remove duplicate entries. however i cant figure out how to back out of my home dir or display hidden files.	01:30
guysoft42	um, what do i do if i have a nice patch for gpe-summery?	01:31
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Macer	this damn G1 wifi tethering works great	01:45
Macer	i hope att burns down :) tmob ftw	01:45
Macer	heh	01:45
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* b-man leaves, bye all		01:47
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Macer	i ordered my artigo	01:48
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guysoft42	anyone using gpesummrey here and would like to test a patch?	01:51
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guysoft42	um this is strange- could it be that something happend to my keymap? because the fn key stoped working..	02:02
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fhjs	im lost here, how do you open files from outside your home dir in leafpad, your file manager or anything?	02:11
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crashanddie	Now I understand why you don't need brake-lights on the side of a car: http://www.gtspirit.com/uploads/images/finalis%20081108%201853.jpg	02:13
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practisevoodoo	anyone got any idea why i cant run a python program that uses gpsbt on my maemo if i try to kick it off via an ssh session?	02:14
practisevoodoo	doesnt really matter but it is a bit annoying	02:14
crashanddie	on your maemo?	02:15
crashanddie	NIT?	02:15
practisevoodoo	i must be really tired cause i can only think of one NIT	02:16
crashanddie	practisevoodoo: if gpsbt is a command you execute from within python, check if you have the permissions/path set correctly access the executable	02:16
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crashanddie	practisevoodoo: 770, n800, n810?	02:16
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practisevoodoo	n810, it works if i kick it off from xsession on the actual device	02:17
crashanddie	wow, I actually forgot half of that sentence	02:17
crashanddie	practisevoodoo: again, let me repeat the path/permission comment	02:17
fhjs	ok i used mc as root in xterm to open my sources.list file in leafpad yet for some strange reason its blank?	02:18
crashanddie	fhjs: probably wrong path	02:19
fhjs	/etc/apt/sources.list	02:19
fhjs	?	02:19
fhjs	should be it	02:19
crashanddie	/etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list	02:20
crashanddie	fhjs: /etc/apt/sources.list is empty everywhere, unless you add stuff to it, that is :)	02:21
practisevoodoo	excellent, thanks for that crashanddie. I ssh in as root and su to user and it works	02:21
fhjs	i have repos though	02:21
fhjs	added via the app manager	02:21
crashanddie	practisevoodoo: glad I could help	02:21
fhjs	under tools catalogue, where are those stored?	02:22
crashanddie	/etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list	02:23
fhjs	ah thanks	02:24
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fhjs	stupid doubles in it	02:25
fhjs	trying to weed them out	02:25
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MaceN800	now i'm all amped up to get my artigo	02:50
MaceN800	heh	02:51
MaceN800	maybe i'll put mer on it	02:51
MaceN800	lol	02:51
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t3rminat0r	Hello guys what's up?	03:06
t3rminat0r	Stskeeps: is it easy to learn how to make to power button working on mer?	03:08
andre__	dumdidum.	03:10
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rm_you	johnx: any luck?	03:41
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Andrewfblack	Anyone been able to get friendscard to install?	04:44
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matt___	Does anyone have experience/a link for setting up irreco with vlc?	06:52
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t3rminat0r	does anyone has any good pics of mer???	06:57
t3rminat0r	(for demonstration)	06:57
r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: Missed a step in the imager, need to make the /dev/input directtory before you mknod in it. will push a change to lp	06:59
t3rminat0r	r2d2rogers: have you any repository of mer images?	07:00
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r2d2rogers	pictures or rootfs images?	07:01
r2d2rogers	http://picasaweb.google.com/meizirkki	07:01
r2d2rogers	some there	07:01
r2d2rogers	(screenshots)	07:01
t3rminat0r	that's what i wanted :)	07:02
t3rminat0r	thanx bro	07:02
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r2d2rogers	welcome	07:02
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t3rminat0r	r2d2rogers: something last	07:12
t3rminat0r	do you have any screenshot of splash screen?	07:12
r2d2rogers	?	07:12
t3rminat0r	the boot menu of Nxxx	07:13
t3rminat0r	in order to access mer or maemo	07:13
r2d2rogers	not the rescure menu but the advances bootmenu ?	07:13
r2d2rogers	rescue?	07:13
r2d2rogers	rescue menu is in here at the bottom of the post http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2009/01/18/mer-ui-the-beginning/	07:14
t3rminat0r	man... this is TOO much beautiful...	07:15
t3rminat0r	in my N810	07:15
r2d2rogers	yuop	07:15
t3rminat0r	it is some letters....	07:15
r2d2rogers	I'm playing with 770s	07:15
t3rminat0r	have I done something wrong?	07:15
r2d2rogers	?	07:15
r2d2rogers	you have just the black text on white screen?	07:15
t3rminat0r	yes....	07:15
r2d2rogers	that's normal for start	07:16
r2d2rogers	then the splash hits	07:16
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t3rminat0r	how do I make it?	07:16
t3rminat0r	it says BOOT MENU	07:16
t3rminat0r	Interna flash	07:16
r2d2rogers	is there one for Mer?	07:17
t3rminat0r	mer on external card, p3	07:17
r2d2rogers	there ya go	07:17
t3rminat0r	power off ( when not on charger)	07:17
r2d2rogers	dpad down to that and hit the center button on the dpad	07:17
r2d2rogers	mer on external Card p3	07:17
t3rminat0r	yes	07:17
t3rminat0r	but it books only a simple screen	07:17
r2d2rogers	got it?	07:17
r2d2rogers	right, the boot menu is...	07:18
t3rminat0r	http://picasaweb.google.com/meizirkki/MerOnN810#5292631353482276018	07:18
t3rminat0r	I see only this one	07:18
r2d2rogers	Yup	07:18
t3rminat0r	and afterwars the "desktop" of mer	07:18
t3rminat0r	but this http://tabletui.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/mer3.jpg?w=800&h=480	07:18
t3rminat0r	is much more differenet from my mer...	07:18
r2d2rogers	if you want the rescue menu you need to hole the "home" button from the instant you see the blue splash	07:18
r2d2rogers	yeah he's got a theme in there.	07:19
r2d2rogers	I think that might be a mockup also	07:19
r2d2rogers	not yet working theme	07:19
t3rminat0r	until then it would be simple	07:20
r2d2rogers	right	07:20
r2d2rogers	more like the maemo themes	07:20
r2d2rogers	but I think they have some proof od concept work toward that mockup done	07:20
t3rminat0r	ok then	07:20
t3rminat0r	it's ok	07:20
t3rminat0r	something last	07:21
t3rminat0r	had you managed	07:21
t3rminat0r	to get your powerbutton	07:21
t3rminat0r	working?	07:21
t3rminat0r	(in order not to type sudo poweroff)	07:21
r2d2rogers	nope on the 770 I'm still focused on the wifi driver right now	07:21
r2d2rogers	I don't have a n8x0	07:21
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t3rminat0r	in case I am running out of battery in either maemo	07:22
t3rminat0r	or mer	07:22
t3rminat0r	the device would shutdown by itself?	07:22
r2d2rogers	yeah, I usually work with it plugged in when I'm playing with Mer right now	07:22
r2d2rogers	I beleive so... the watchdog stuff is active last I heard	07:23
slonopotamus	hi	07:23
r2d2rogers	howdy slonopotamus	07:23
slonopotamus	anyone tried compiling pygtk on device?	07:23
r2d2rogers	not I	07:23
t3rminat0r	οκ μαν	07:24
t3rminat0r	thanx	07:24
t3rminat0r	aaaaaaaaaaa	07:24
t3rminat0r	and I can also use any install file	07:25
t3rminat0r	form maemo	07:25
t3rminat0r	also in mer	07:25
t3rminat0r	(such as personal menu, right?)	07:25
r2d2rogers	t3rminat0r: If you have a recent image I think the hildon application manager is working properly	07:26
t3rminat0r	nice :)	07:26
t3rminat0r	i installed fennec	07:26
r2d2rogers	I think there are issues with the personal menu, but personal launcher works fine	07:26
t3rminat0r	and it works	07:26
r2d2rogers	<G>	07:26
r2d2rogers	yup I finally saw that on my 770 with Mer	07:26
t3rminat0r	<G> ?	07:26
slonopotamus	i have strange results. it builds in 2 minutes on my desktop. i expected something about 10-15 minutes on device. but it compiled gtk.c for a day (!), ate 90 mb ram and still didn't finish. i suspect there is some weird bug in gcc	07:26
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Macer	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0Ee4tNl3Vg	07:48
Macer	wow that thing is pretty small	07:48
GeneralAntilles	Macer, buy a Beagle.	07:50
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Macer	heh	07:57
Macer	already bought this thing	07:57
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jaem	good morning	08:55
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Corsac	damn, the tablet doesn't sleep when connected to wlan	08:56
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Corsac	so it again passed out during the night	08:56
Macer	blah	08:57
jaem	I have to wonder... why did Nokia name their flasher "fiasco"? Fiasco is exactly what I don't want to happen when I'm flashing :S	08:57
Corsac	some kind of humour :)	08:57
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GeneralAntilles	Corsac, are you sure your AP isn't broken?	08:58
GeneralAntilles	You should get about 4 days idle on WiFi if you don't have a broken-ass AP or some service isn't using the network a lot.	08:58
Corsac	GeneralAntilles: not really sure	08:58
Corsac	what do you call a broken AP?	08:58
GeneralAntilles	jaem, FIASCO is an RTOS	08:58
GeneralAntilles	Corsac, one that doesn't support wifi power saving	08:59
GeneralAntilles	~psm	08:59
infobot	i guess psm is Personal Security Manager for Mozilla, at http://docs.iplanet.com/docs/manuals/psm/psm-mozilla/index.html. You don't need to restart mozilla as noted on that URL. It also consumes 100% CPU unfortunately... lame piece of software. no longer works as of mozilla 0.7, or needed for viewing of some login sites, i.e. yahoo. install by apt-get install mozilla-psm	08:59
GeneralAntilles	~wifi-psm	08:59
infobot	rumour has it, wifi-psm is http://wiki.maemo.org/Wifi_Power_Saving_Mode_(PSM)	08:59
Corsac	how that's surely possible	08:59
Corsac	and there is trafic (low, but still) basically alway	08:59
Corsac	+s	08:59
tekojo	Morning!	09:00
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jaem	GA: that would make more sense, then... how is it related to the flasher, then?	09:01
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GeneralAntilles	jaem, NOLO	09:01
Corsac	http://bugs.freeplayer.org/task/2538	09:02
Corsac	(french, sorry)	09:02
Corsac	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3481 is the maemo associated bug	09:04
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Stskeeps	morning	09:48
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Stskeeps	pong daperl	09:53
daperl	Stskeeps, what's goin' on? I'm just heading to bed.	09:55
Stskeeps	not much. i am waking up, cleaning the house and going to my dads :P	09:56
daperl	Stskeeps, It's midnight here. What time is it there?	09:56
mavhc	damn you round earth, also, ctcp time	09:57
Stskeeps	daperl: 8:55am	09:59
daperl	Stskeeps, I have my son till Monday morning. My hope is to hand something off to you by bedtime Tuesday.	10:02
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Stskeeps	alright, have a good weekend with the son :)	10:08
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daperl	Stskeeps, thanks, goodnight	10:11
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RST38h	moo all	10:14
solmumaha	morning	10:15
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zeenix	kulve: hi, did you get to read MAFW docs	12:38
zeenix	?	12:38
kulve	I read just some high level stuff quickly..	12:38
kulve	garage.maemo.org/projects/mafw is still empty and there's still no "home page" for the project	12:39
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timeless	hello	12:40
RST38h	Anyone knows what the status of the latest Canola2b11 is? Can it be promoted to Extras?	12:40
* timeless is sick		12:40
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GeneralAntilles	RST38h, don't promote things you don't own.	12:42
zeenix	kulve: bah! i really need to talk to those guys	12:42
RST38h	General: I do not	12:42
StsN800	<3 trains with wifi	12:42
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=264198 see this thread for details.	12:42
RST38h	General: Just inquiring if this is gonna happen any time soon	12:42
GeneralAntilles	Yes, soon, they're just cleaning up a few loose ends.	12:43
suihkulokki	zeenix: why are you supporting other peoples but not me on MAFW :P	12:44
timeless	suihkulokki: s/peoples/people/	12:45
zeenix	suihkulokki: because you are asking questions about it that i've no clue about :)	12:45
timeless	peoples are like nations	12:45
timeless	1 person; 2 people	12:45
zeenix	suihkulokki: ignore timeless	12:45
suihkulokki	I am	12:45
zeenix	suihkulokki: when he is correcting your english that is :)	12:45
suihkulokki	I typo - therefor I am	12:45
RST38h	Genral: thanks =)	12:45
suihkulokki	I typo - therefor I am _human_	12:46
zeenix	suihkulokki: you are peopleS :)	12:46
timeless	therefore :)	12:46
timeless	The form without a final .E. is an archaic bit of legal terminology meaning .for.. The word most people want is .therefore.. List of errors.	12:46
timeless	www.wsu.edu/~brians/errors/therefor.html	12:46
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, sorry for the harsh reaction. The way you phrased it immediately made me picture the apocalypse occurring on itT as a thousand posts instantly get added to the b11 thread.	12:47
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StsN800	isn't every day apocalypse day on iTT?	12:48
timeless	sts: certainly :)	12:49
jaska	or armageddon, the final conflict?	12:49
t_s_o	is there a way to check if the fm radio electronics are still up and running?	12:50
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* RST38h will go and promote random shit from Extras Devel like right away =)		12:52
RST38h	For extra mayhem	12:52
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timeless	gan: ok, i've pushed a new .zip	12:57
timeless	people interested in testing my en-us are requested to grab the latest file	12:57
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suihkulokki	"It's (Exherbo) quite different from other distributions because at this time it doesn't center on end-users, and also doesn't want to attract too many developers."	13:00
suihkulokki	what?	13:00
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StsN802	timeless, microb-related string: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/microboff.png , spot the error	13:00
StsN802	a	13:01
aquatix	StsN802: the first bullet point? at least it's a not-so-fluent sentence	13:03
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timelE61i	sorry, network failed	13:03
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timelE61i	We were internally aware of the offline mode stuff	13:03
timelE61i	As well as the advice	13:04
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timelE61i	We decided to leave it alone	13:04
StsN802	suihkulokki, sounds like a gentoo derivative..	13:04
RST38h	suihkulokki: doesn't this statement cover like 90% inux distros out there?	13:05
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GeneralAntilles	suihkulokki, it's a lot of ex-Gentoo guys.	13:06
StsN802	timeless, yeah, i am surprised the error even showed up	13:08
suihkulokki	RST38h: most distrost try attract developers the best they can	13:08
suihkulokki	except for the one-man distros	13:08
RST38h	suihkulokki: not Slackware or Gentoo	13:09
timelE61i	um	13:09
timelE61i	The skype installer looks funny on Mer/h-d Frem	13:09
timelE61i	It pops up at the NW screen corner	13:09
StsN802	possibly an artefact of movable dialogs	13:10
StsN802	mauku has a similar issue	13:10
suihkulokki	RST38h: I know gentoo recruits new developers, but slackware counts as one-man distro :P	13:10
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timelE61i	Help	13:11
timelE61i	I was asked to add a catlog	13:11
timelE61i	I clicked details	13:11
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timelE61i	Now i have a button free dialog	13:11
StsN802	esc	13:11
timelE61i	It doesn't respond to escape or clicking out of the dialog	13:11
StsN802	timelE61i, hmm. yeah, we gotta get the x'es back in dialogs..	13:12
* timeless frowns		13:13
timeless	picture coming	13:13
timeless	timeless.justdave.net/maemo/h-a-m-cannot-escape.png	13:14
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StsN802	on a slight wtf.. hildonized skype for x86 exists?	13:16
timeless	sts: from nokia? for nokians?	13:16
timeless	dunno	13:16
timeless	but the installer does :)	13:16
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StsN802	hehe	13:16
StsN802	timeless, try enter	13:17
timeless	no worky	13:17
* timeless considers trying to read the code for the skype-installer		13:17
StsN802	prolly cos ham is half diablo and a bit pre fremantle	13:17
timeless	iirc i've actually looked recently	13:17
timeless	oh, but hrm, yeah, no point in looking at the installer	13:18
timeless	this is a ham bug	13:18
StsN802	(it is not the git version)	13:18
timeless	which ham do i have?	13:18
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StsN802	ham svn garage r1465 i think	13:18
timeless	i have 1:2.1.20~unreleased-r1...	13:19
StsN802	we didn't have upstart-dev and others beforre prealpha2 so we couldn't do git	13:19
timeless	is my version sane?	13:19
StsN802	no, but it works reasonably.. we have to pull in the new patches	13:20
StsN802	from git ver	13:20
timeless	my definition of sane is 'not diablo'	13:21
timeless	remember i've installed nearly every diablo package there is :)	13:21
timeless	gotta collect them all	13:21
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* timeless pokes gan/jaffa		13:24
GAN800	Hum?	13:24
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timeless	sts: should i file a bug about ham?	13:24
timeless	gan: can i get you to test my latest l10n pack?	13:25
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timeless	sts: from memory, the skype installer basically has a .install file and then asks ham to open it	13:26
GAN800	In a bit	13:26
timeless	the install file merely specifies the nokia catalog (tableteer), and the package to install (dunno)	13:26
timeless	the details dialog seems to be app modal	13:27
timeless	so i can't click the app close button	13:27
timeless	and because of its position, i can't click the window switcher button	13:27
timeless	i canuse my keyboard to open the window switcher, but of course [x] doesn't work, because the app proceses events	13:28
* timeless sighs		13:28
* timeless coplained about this behavior a couple of years ago		13:28
timeless	sts: can you use a core dump from ham?	13:29
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timeless	oh gah	13:32
* timeless sighs		13:32
* timeless kicks osso-games		13:33
timeless	they really don't get this "one string per use" thing	13:33
StsN802	timeless, judging from your screenshots it really does seem like there is hope for mer bits combined with fremantle closed source bits is possible	13:33
timeless	i'm having very few problems	13:33
timeless	a couple of things don't install	13:34
timeless	but that's because of dependency hell	13:34
StsN802	timeless, yes, file a bug, but to mer for now	13:34
timeless	which is so much worse than dll hell	13:34
StsN802	yes, it is	13:34
StsN802	we have some dirty tricks to make it easier to grab maemo stuff	13:35
StsN802	you would be astonished how much depends on 'base64'	13:35
timeless	nah	13:35
timeless	i have an xref, i can just ask :)	13:35
timeless	atm, xkbdata is the one that kills me	13:36
timeless	if you could make the package you have use provides instead of conflicts	13:36
timeless	that'd let me install the last missing bits of diablo	13:36
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StsN802	mm	13:36
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StsN802	which package?	13:37
timeless	xkb-data 1.4-1ubuntu3	13:37
timeless	xkbdata 0.8-0osso28diablo2	13:37
timeless	the former conflicts w/ the latter	13:37
StsN802	it doesn't provides it too?	13:37
timeless	and some bits of osso depend on the latter	13:37
timeless	not afaict	13:38
StsN802	they don't depend based on version right?	13:38
timeless	unversioned requirement from osso-applet-bluetooth-keyboard	13:39
StsN802	should be relatively painless then	13:40
timeless	i gave up and wget + dpkg -i'd it	13:40
* timeless doesn't consider the currrent state painless		13:40
timeless	but yes, it should be	13:40
StsN802	as in, to fix it	13:41
timeless	can someone tell me what version of skype-installer is in the latest official diablo?	13:41
GeneralAntilles	timeless, what should I be paying attention to?	13:41
timeless	oh, nm	13:41
timeless	gan: um, sadly everything	13:42
timeless	i tried to get 'AV Chat' right	13:42
timeless	i tried to get 'call' mostly dead	13:42
timeless	i tried not to use 'device' unless i meant bluetooth	13:42
timeless	i'm trying not to use ... for things where the user is asking for a dialog	13:42
timeless	so a menu should be 'settings' not 'settings...'	13:42
timeless	but an item 'add foopy...' needs the '...'s because the user will hit a dialog before the user can successfully get the user's foopy	13:43
zeenix	kulve: btw, i'll try to get a GSoC student to write the gvfs backend	13:43
zeenix	kulve: http://live.gnome.org/Rygel/GSoC2009	13:44
zeenix	kulve: i hope you don't mind me mentioning your project there :)	13:44
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timeless	in general, there shouldn't be many instances of 'phone'	13:44
timeless	the uses of 'mobile' should be rare (cellular)	13:44
GeneralAntilles	zeenix, I only got the Rygel/Farscape connection recently. Nice name. ;)	13:45
timeless	i've tried to make the media player net radio directory strings rane	13:45
timeless	heh	13:45
timeless	s/rane/sane/	13:45
Stskeeps	poss	13:45
timeless	the errors from media player are still not ideal	13:46
timeless	if you use maps or rhapsody or skype, things should be closer to the strings seen elsewhere	13:46
timeless	oh, in general you shouldn't see 'Internet connection'	13:46
timeless	because the tablet doesn't really know if the connection is for the Internet or just some private network	13:47
timeless	however, i think some of those strings need work	13:47
timeless	because sometimes 'connection' alone is probably less than ideal	13:47
timeless	in the cases i caught that, it should say 'network' instead	13:47
kulve	zeenix: of course not :)	13:48
kulve	zeenix: and I want to integrate it to ALIP as well (in http://linux.onarm.com)	13:48
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timeless	where does one go to file bugs against osso-games?	13:49
zeenix	GeneralAntilles: heh! thanks	13:49
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* timeless forwns		13:53
* timeless frowns		13:53
timeless	anyone here know what _ai_ means? :)	13:54
timeless	err _ia_	13:54
aquatix	intel architecture?	13:56
timeless	no	13:56
* aquatix needs more context otherwise		13:56
Jaffa	timeless: examples? "internet ..."?	13:57
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* Jaffa stopped trying to guess what the two-letter codes were in the i18n strings		13:57
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timeless	game_ia_startup_not_started	14:00
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aquatix	input autput?	14:01
* aquatix runs		14:01
timeless	internal application? :)	14:02
* timeless shrugs		14:02
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timeless	all i know is that ia != ib	14:02
timeless	and yet, bug 4112	14:02
* timeless grumbles		14:02
timeless	oh, and for people who are curious, titles != buttons	14:02
timeless	(4107)	14:02
Jaffa	timeless: interactive?	14:02
timeless	this string is mostly printed int he games startup above start/continue	14:03
timeless	or whatever those buttons say	14:03
timeless	in my localization it's " "	14:03
timeless	because it's stupid	14:03
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timeless	but it means you get an empty info banner :)	14:03
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GeneralAntilles	Nokia's just encoding dirty words into the strings. ;)	14:04
aquatix	hm, initiation action?	14:04
* timeless shrugs		14:05
timeless	gan's right, you don't want to know	14:05
dphil9000	In Finnish	14:05
* timeless doesn't know and should be glad		14:05
tekojo	GeneralAntilles: and then we censor ourselves?	14:06
timeless	tekojo: where do you censor yourself?	14:07
timeless	(or self-censor)	14:07
RST38h	"Text messaging, email and internet chat rooms are showing us the way forward for English. Let's allow people greater freedom to spell logically. It's time to remove the fetish that says that correct spelling is a principal (principle?) mark of being educated."	14:07
tekojo	timeless: in the dirty words section	14:07
timeless	tekojo: is diablo a dirty word these days?	14:07
RST38h	John Wells of University College London (you will have to google for his email to flame him)	14:08
tekojo	timeless: depends on the language :-)	14:08
timeless	en-FI	14:09
timeless	:)	14:09
timeless	(which is a dirty language fwiw, but..)	14:09
* StsN801 glances at the snow outside the train and suspects its cold ..		14:09
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aquatix	RST38h: to hell with capital letters and interpunction LOL	14:11
aquatix	;)	14:11
RST38h	and spelin tu i heit spelin	14:11
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lardman	andwhilewereatitletsgetridofspacestoo	14:12
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aquatix	saves a lot of bandwidth	14:12
RST38h	tsvbndwdthrmvllthvwls	14:12
GeneralAntilles	Ha	14:12
GeneralAntilles	aquatix, just think of all the money we'll save not having to upgrade the internet!	14:12
timeless	my favorite box has a 95gb allocation	14:13
timeless	it's full	14:13
aquatix	indeed!	14:13
RST38h	General: But only if you convert all the porn into ascii art	14:13
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aquatix	RST38h: you mean you aren't watching ascii pr0n then normally?	14:13
RST38h	aquatix: somehow, this fad passed me unnoticed	14:14
timeless	heh	14:14
* aquatix likes the streaming ascii video better though		14:14
timeless	google bought a finnish paper mill	14:14
aquatix	heh, yeah	14:15
aquatix	datacenters.pool+=1	14:15
lardman	timeless: trying to shutdown paper publishing from the inside?	14:15
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timeless	the mill closed first	14:15
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aquatix	always one step ahead ;)	14:16
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Andrewfblack	Morning	14:40
thopiekar	evening	14:40
lardman	afternoon	14:43
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GeneralAntilles	lol . . . the things people think are "realistic" http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=264219&postcount=1359	14:48
aquatix	# Dual SD-card slots OR MORE	14:49
aquatix	where's my octo-SD setup!	14:49
aquatix	the part about no internal flash actually sounds sensible to me	14:50
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aquatix	as in, having replacable flash in there	14:51
thopiekar	GeneralAntilles: very realistic isn't it? :D	14:51
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jaska	well, 512m ram would be nice	14:51
Andrewfblack	why don't we just go for 1gb of ram :)	14:54
jaska	shrug as long as its atleast 256m :)	14:54
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* aquatix requests 448MB of ram		14:55
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: who of maemo.org is in the netherlands?	14:56
Andrewfblack	New device is supose to have bulit in data right os I assume a sim card slot but I don't know anyone in the us that offers a data only plan unless its the same plan that is for like the data cards and they are like $60 a month	14:56
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GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, X-Fade?	14:57
GeneralAntilles	jaska, RAM has a non-trivial effect on battery, sadly.	14:57
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: I was thinking about this, because there are two scenarios we should take into account	14:57
jaska	consdering as it is the browser munches uuh, maybe 100m of it	14:58
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GeneralAntilles	jaska, an up-to-date Gecko will help a lot.	14:58
Andrewfblack	wow that last guy wants a screen the size of the entire N800 lol how big will the device be	14:58
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crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: 1/ it would make sense to have the financial operator reside in the country we are considering for the summit, as this would limit transaction fees	14:58
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GeneralAntilles	There've been some major RAM consumption improvements since alpha 1	14:58
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jaska	still, i wouldnt say its unreasonable to expect 256m	14:59
timelE61i	?	14:59
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: b/ find someone who whould take that role for a longer period of time (ie: not on a per-summit basis)	14:59
GeneralAntilles	jaska, no, 256MB sounds right to me.	15:00
mgedmin	RAID-6 on SD cards, m...	15:00
Andrewfblack	I like the guy who wants 3 sd card slots	15:00
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jaska	raid-6? sounds like a rewrite hell for the flashes :D	15:01
Andrewfblack	as big as sd cards are getting it wont suprise me to see only 1	15:01
ShadowJK	my bet is single microsd ;p	15:03
Andrewfblack	ShadowJK, same here	15:03
crashanddie	I don't care about SD/microSD, as it's not miniSD	15:04
ShadowJK	built-in data would be awesome. My operator offers "parallell" sim cards tied to your normal cellphone number, with unlimited data. Perfect for modems	15:04
Andrewfblack	let me guess your not in the US	15:04
crashanddie	s/as/as long as/	15:04
infobot	crashanddie meant: I don't care about SD/microSD, as long as it's not miniSD	15:04
ShadowJK	I have a microsd card in my N810... those adapters kingston bundles with their cheapo cards are wonderful	15:04
ShadowJK	Andrewfblack, indeed	15:04
ShadowJK	Andrewfblack, it would still have wlan and bluetooth I'm sure	15:05
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GeneralAntilles	ShadowJK, it'll have HSPA. . . .	15:05
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ShadowJK	GeneralAntilles, the interesting question will be which bands it'll be able to use ;-)	15:06
Andrewfblack	yeah but built in data would be cool if we could get decent plan in the us, I'm considering getting a 3G wireless router for my truck since the data plan on it is cheaper then most "Cell Phone" companys	15:06
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: again, no comment on what I said earlier?	15:06
timelE61i	sHadow: heh	15:06
timelE61i	No one mentioned that interally	15:06
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, I'm not one for handling money.	15:06
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, but it sounds reasonable to me.	15:07
GeneralAntilles	Andrewfblack, AT&T should be $30 or $35/mo	15:07
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ShadowJK	It's kinda unfortunate that services and devices are in some countries so strongly bundled together, and that you can't get decent service without buying a device too, often a operator-crippled device.	15:07
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: I'm not really happy about it, but Quim seems to have made his mind about it	15:08
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: and we both know that if he starts looking for such a person, he will find one. There will always be someone to send money around, people like that...	15:08
Andrewfblack	Thats if they consider it a smartphone and lets you use that plan, if they require the datacard plan isn't it more	15:08
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, happy about having somebody besides Nokia handle the smaller payouts?	15:08
GeneralAntilles	I don't see the problem, really.	15:09
GeneralAntilles	Just get somebody on the maemo.org team.	15:09
timelE61i	fwiw, he's right	15:09
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timelE61i	The nokia stuff really doesn't work for small numbers	15:09
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, it's not like we're gonna hand off the responsibility to the first joker to pop out of the woodwork.	15:09
crashanddie	timelE61i: don't tell me Nokia only pays expenses in 4 digit cheques	15:10
timelE61i	i have a 3digit expense	15:10
timelE61i	I haven't gotten reim'd	15:10
Andrewfblack	GeneralAntilles, Well I guess they will consider the Tablet a PDA and that would allow for the $30 Plan	15:10
StsN802	heh, departments at times	15:11
ShadowJK	transactions from holland to rest of EU are "free", I think	15:11
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, ask some of the guys who were sponsored to LinuxTag when they got reimbursed.	15:11
crashanddie	ShadowJK: nope	15:11
ShadowJK	crashanddie, ah pity	15:11
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: I know how it was, trust me	15:11
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Andrewfblack	btw when they say its going to have HSPA do they mean only HSPA or will it allow connections to Edge networks and others also?	15:11
ShadowJK	EU has a rule requiring transactions to other EU countries to cost the same as transactions inside the country, which in many cases translates to "free" :)	15:12
StsN802	it was impossible to buy a ticket to a city in the region through dept procedure but trivial to get a trip to hong kong	15:12
GeneralAntilles	Andrewfblack, I'm almost certain HSPA implies EDGE.	15:12
timelE61i	andrew: they say to read the roadmap	15:12
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* timelE61i has no idea		15:12
timelE61i	:)	15:12
GeneralAntilles	I haven't seen a device that supports 3G but not 2G, personally.	15:12
Andrewfblack	GeneralAntilles, Ok becuase I know alot of the US still doesn't have anything better then Edge	15:12
GeneralAntilles	I can't imagine them crippling a device like that anyway.	15:13
ShadowJK	GeneralAntilles, there are a few with 3g and gprs but no egprs(edge)	15:13
crashanddie	ShadowJK: I just sent money to my family in France (I'm in the UK) and it cost me 3% in charges	15:13
ShadowJK	mostly sonyericsson, i think	15:13
Andrewfblack	I think I have to driver about 3 hours for 3G connection lol	15:13
ShadowJK	crashanddie, yes well UK is kinda special...	15:14
woglinde	hi	15:14
Jaffa	Intra-eurozone could be cheaper	15:14
crashanddie	ShadowJK: and last time I checked, I paid as much when I sent money from Belgium to France, or France to luxembourg	15:14
ShadowJK	You're getting ripped off :P	15:14
crashanddie	right	15:14
* Andrewfblack will come visit GeneralAntilles if he wants to use his tablet on a 3G network		15:15
ShadowJK	iirc, if you aren't doing it through IBAN they can charge you whatever they like	15:15
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GeneralAntilles	I get strong 3G coverage in the 2 cities I frequent.	15:15
Andrewfblack	Panama City would be the closest place for me I think	15:16
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crashanddie	IBAN = Internation Bank Account Number	15:16
crashanddie	IBAN != money transfer protocol	15:16
ShadowJK	yes	15:16
Andrewfblack	I consider my town a big city but in south alabama it really don't matter how big you are still slow on stuff like 3G :)	15:17
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ShadowJK	crashanddie, http://www.europebanks.info/ibanguide.htm	15:20
timelE61i	tEkojo: have i asked which gateway you use?	15:21
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tekojo	timelE61i: ??	15:22
timelE61i	Dasasob.	15:22
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tekojo	timelE61i: that's where I come out	15:23
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Andrewfblack	I was watching a video of a nokia design talking about the n97 I think its funny when they refer to there Cell Phones as mobile computers when you know they have a line of mobile computers	15:24
aquatix	:)	15:25
aquatix	just watched it too	15:25
aquatix	i'm curious to the interface of the 5800 and n97 in real life	15:25
crashanddie	ShadowJK: Some banks will charge USD 45.- or EUR 20.- for initiating a foreign transfer, which indeed is very expensive say if you want to pay somebody just EUR 10 to a person in neighbouring EU country like from France to Germany.	15:26
crashanddie	ShadowJK: kthxbai	15:26
GeneralAntilles	Andrewfblack, yeah, I found that interesting too.	15:26
crashanddie	anyway, to come back to the Financing Proxy	15:26
GeneralAntilles	I wonder what the new branding direction for the tablets will be.	15:26
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GeneralAntilles	Since it's apparently not "Internet Tablet"	15:26
Andrewfblack	I wonder what they refer to the new device as since Mobile Compter is taken lol	15:27
jeremiah	Netlet?	15:27
Andrewfblack	jeremiah, lol	15:27
jeremiah	:)	15:27
GeneralAntilles	Andrewfblack, well, they're bigger and more powerful than the N-series phones.	15:28
GeneralAntilles	Mobile mainframe?	15:28
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Meiz_n810	my n810 thinks the charger is plugged in all the time O_o	15:28
jeremiah	Then one should be able to create an ad hoc grid	15:28
jeremiah	and distribute processing.	15:28
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crashanddie	I don't like the idea of giving the money to an individual, there is too much opportunity for fraud or abuse. Historically, when a corporation wants to organise an event, they would use an event planner or event bureau, whatever you want to call it. This is a commercial company that would take the responsibility to work around the budget	15:28
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Andrewfblack	http://wiki.maemo.org/GSoC_2009/Project_ideas I want to see that project for free	15:29
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, well, if X-Fade or dneary fuck it all up, we know where to find them. ;)	15:29
Andrewfblack	for real I mean	15:29
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: haha, true	15:29
Jaffa	If that person has a commercial relationship with Nokia already, is it any different to a Nokia employee doing it?	15:29
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crashanddie	Jaffa: I think Quim clearly expressed he did not wish to commit anyone full time to this	15:30
crashanddie	and yes, organising such an event will require full time work for at least a couple of weeks	15:30
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jeremiah	Conference organizing is hard, lots of work.	15:31
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crashanddie	It's a lot easier to work with an event planner as they are used to doing this. They have the experience, and probably the contacts to take care of this. Just google "evenementenbureau amsterdam".	15:32
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, well, maybe we should do it through an event planner. :P	15:33
GeneralAntilles	Feel free to suggest it.	15:33
crashanddie	I will	15:33
ShadowJK	crashanddie, but it will be classified as "domestic transfer" as long as you give all the details required, even if it goes to another EU country :-)	15:39
ShadowJK	and if the currency is in euro	15:39
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ShadowJK	I did a fi->nl transfer a couple of years ago, cost nothing	15:42
ShadowJK	it was bloody slow though	15:42
ShadowJK	took like 4 days	15:42
Andrewfblack	is garage still not updateing karma?	15:42
timelE61i	gan, installed?	15:43
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* timelE61i needs more tea		15:46
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jeremiah	I hear that - I need some tea too.	15:48
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GeneralAntilles	timelE61i, yeah, I've poked around a bit	15:50
GeneralAntilles	Haven't found anything glacing	15:50
GeneralAntilles	s/glacing/glaring/	15:50
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: Haven't found anything glaring	15:50
GeneralAntilles	Though I'm not a big fan of "AV Chat"	15:50
* timeless nods		15:51
timeless	no one is	15:51
timeless	VideoTalk ?	15:51
timeless	it's not much longer	15:51
GeneralAntilles	No, not really any good either.	15:51
timeless	it's not particularly accurate	15:51
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GeneralAntilles	The OMAG blog is funny.	16:04
GeneralAntilles	You're required to log in to post comments, but there's no way to register.	16:04
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timeless	url?	16:06
GeneralAntilles	http://omag.es/blog/2009/02/13/how-will-new-maemo-device-look-like/	16:06
jaska	fairly blogspammy, just links to youtube video?	16:07
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johnx	a youtube video that he probably saw posted on engadget mobile	16:07
johnx	and which was already discussed here :)	16:08
_user	say, anyone know what these maps are for on my internal memory? 1.5G worth of stuff	16:09
bilboed-pi	_user, wild gues... for the map application ?	16:09
Jaffa	_user: the built-in Maps application. The maps for the region in which your device was sold are included as standard	16:10
_user	you mean maemo-mapper?	16:10
timeless	if it's 1.5g, it's almost certainly US EAst and US West	16:10
johnx	nope "Nokia Maps"	16:10
timeless	johnx: Nokia Map	16:11
timeless	yay stupidity :)	16:11
timeless	and technically not Nokia	16:11
timeless	it's Navicore	16:11
_user	mine didn't come with that	16:11
timeless	_user: in the application menu, my selection, the first item is typically 'Map'	16:11
_user	wait n/m	16:11
GeneralAntilles	"Nokia Maps" is an application for S60	16:12
johnx	ah	16:12
johnx	fair enough	16:12
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johnx	the package is 'maps' though IIRC	16:13
GeneralAntilles	"Map"	16:13
timeless	it's 'map'	16:13
timeless	internally :)	16:13
GeneralAntilles	It's all highly confusing, very technical, and entirely pointless.	16:13
johnx	ah	16:13
timeless	if you're an English speaker	16:13
timeless	you're encouraged to get the en-US translation from extras-devel :)	16:13
timeless	and then you can have better names but join in the confusion :)	16:14
timeless	(it renames Map to Maps)	16:14
johnx	aaaah...now I see why I'm confused :P	16:14
timeless	hey, it renames Web to Browser too :)	16:15
johnx	I never even touched the app before I was checking out your translation because it utterly fails to cover that land mass east of Europe and west of America	16:15
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* timeless nods		16:16
timeless	sorry about that	16:16
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timeless	I'll have to provide a translation table to help people recover from nokia string land	16:16
johnx	heh. no problem :) I just want some freaking maps of that place where I live	16:16
timeless	can't help you there :)	16:16
johnx	and I know that Navicore has them given that Nxx phones are on sale here...	16:17
_user	maemo-mapper versus nokia maps	16:18
_user	?	16:18
timeless	no	16:18
timeless	there are 3 map apps of interest in realm: Nokia	16:18
timeless	Nokia Maps (s60)	16:18
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timeless	Navicore Maps (s60, 770, n800+n810)	16:18
timeless	Maemo Mapper (770, n800, n810)	16:19
timeless	the product that ships w/ the n800/n810 is Navicore Maps which we've branded "Map"	16:19
timeless	(because we're really clever)	16:19
johnx	s/clever/"clever"/	16:19
timeless	gan: ham now says: Checking for updates<semicolon> please wait	16:20
timeless	if there are other places which uses please wait but need punctuation help, please let me know	16:20
timeless	i haven't spent much time on that	16:20
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* timeless tries to install battlegweled		16:21
* timeless grumbles		16:23
* timeless kicks battlegweled		16:23
timeless	oh btw, sts?	16:23
timeless	ham complains:	16:23
timeless	get btname: Method "GetName" with signature "" on interface "org.bluez.Adapter" doesn't exist	16:23
timeless	i'd assume that's what breaks HAM's device name feature	16:24
* timeless grumbles		16:24
* timeless kicks sdl		16:24
timeless	so i need a libsdl1.2debian-alsa which claims to be newer than the real one	16:24
zeenix	kulve: there are debian packages in here: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo5.0/free/m/	16:25
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_user	is google gears available for maemo?	16:25
zeenix	kulve: i don't really think you need the sources to use the framework if there are nice docs available :)	16:25
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timeless	sp3000: Crash Reporter claims to have installed!	16:26
zeenix	kulve: and if you do need the source, tarballs are also available in that location	16:26
zeenix	kulve: afaict, you have everything you need already :)	16:26
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kulve	zeenix: I need to check those at some point	16:28
zeenix	kulve: it's your project so take as much time as you want/need, i am only getting rid of all excuses you have :)	16:30
johnx	_user, kind of. I know there was a version that worked but I'm not sure if there is a package made for the latest version of maemo	16:32
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dneary	GeneralAntilles, crashanddie: For community events, I'm not exactly a neophyte, and I have time paid for, after all	16:35
* timeless chuckles		16:35
dneary	I think I would enjoy organising it, actually	16:35
timeless	gan: for kicks, try opening pdf viewer	16:36
timeless	open a doc (e.g. osso_software_copyright)	16:36
timeless	press the left arrow key for a while	16:36
timeless	then press right arrow a couplle of time	16:36
timeless	s	16:36
timeless	you should see 'Loading' appear and go away	16:36
timeless	and then you should see	16:36
timeless	Can't go past first page	16:36
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timeless	even though you're on page 3 or 4 :)	16:36
RST38h	moo, johnx	16:38
johnx	m00f RST38h	16:38
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rm_you	johnx: ? :P	16:38
johnx	hey rm_you	16:39
woglinde	hi johnx and rst	16:39
johnx	hi woglinde	16:39
RST38h	ehlo, woglinde, rm_you	16:39
RST38h	rm_you: how is school doing? =)	16:39
rm_you	RST38h: yo :) not bad	16:39
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rm_you	not failing anything this time around I think	16:40
rm_you	statistics sucks, cause I don't do numbers <_<	16:40
rm_you	but othewrwise all is well :)	16:40
rm_you	johnx: have a chance to try ABL-SVN yet?	16:40
johnx	tried to compile it a bit	16:41
rm_you	i can has kitteh on mah keyboard <_<	16:42
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johnx	but didn't get around it's demand for kernel headers in a certain place	16:42
rm_you	hrm	16:43
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rm_you	if i su to johnx and go into scratchbox, would i be in a Mer build env?	16:44
GeneralAntilles	dneary, talk to crashanddie not me. :)	16:44
johnx	yeah	16:44
rm_you	k i'll look at that	16:45
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rm_you	after i brb	16:45
johnx	look in my projects folder	16:45
rm_you	must shower before class	16:45
* rm_you tries to shoo the kitteh off his mouse, but fails		16:45
dneary	GeneralAntilles: You don't like me talking to you?	16:45
dneary	:(	16:45
rm_you	and can't click currently	16:45
GeneralAntilles	dneary, crashanddie was the one worried about an individual handling the cash.	16:46
dneary	GeneralAntilles: I'd agree	16:46
dneary	There needs to be checks & balances	16:46
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dneary	What you'd need, IMHO, is a budget proposed by Quim, Tero, me & the council (based on last year's costs), approved within Nokia, and then have the spending of that budget overseen by the council, with me just asking for money to get paid	16:47
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dneary	It'd probably be easier for money to be paid outside of Nokia, but Nokia pay suppliers too, so...	16:48
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crashanddie	dneary: problem is that checking what an individual does is hell. Administrative hell.	16:51
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udovdh	hello	17:01
udovdh	ok, so usb networking works	17:01
udovdh	ssh works	17:01
udovdh	could I automate the g_ether module loading with the usb-otg plugin?	17:01
udovdh	or does that remain a manual action?	17:01
johnx	that's the goal of the plugin	17:01
udovdh	(as is the ifup usb0)	17:01
udovdh	well	17:01
johnx	it worked well at one point	17:01
udovdh	I set the usb to network	17:02
udovdh	then I have to modprobe g-ether	17:02
udovdh	it gives a busy first	17:02
udovdh	2nd attempt succeeds	17:02
udovdh	then I can ifup usb0	17:02
johnx	if it doesn't work now your choices are: 1) fix the plugin 2) submit a bug report and wait	17:02
udovdh	I just got my n810	17:02
udovdh	I have to learn how it works	17:02
udovdh	and how different it is from the angstrom on my h2210 ipaq pda	17:02
udovdh	or the fedora on the desktop	17:03
johnx	it's more like debian than angstrom	17:03
udovdh	I also read about a respin of debian on the n810?	17:03
udovdh	(the layoit of the fs, choice of tools etc could be different)	17:03
dneary	crashanddie: That depends entirely	17:03
johnx	the fs layout is mostly similar to debian, but the tools are different	17:03
dneary	crashanddie: The state does it all the time	17:04
RST38h	rm_you: Statistics as in STAT400 or its like?	17:04
dneary	You request that someone prepares accounts, you come & compare bank statements, receipts & revenue statements	17:04
dneary	Done	17:04
udovdh	also i have to check out the menu customization, etc	17:04
udovdh	install some apps	17:04
woglinde	apt-get	17:04
udovdh	build a setup to build navit (like bitbake on OE)	17:04
woglinde	or appmanager	17:04
crashanddie	dneary: are you going to check every receipt?	17:05
udovdh	see http://wiki.navit-project.org/index.php/Navit_on_Ångström for what I tried for angstrom and navit	17:05
johnx	udovdh, for compiling apps you want maemo sdk	17:05
udovdh	I saw about that yes	17:05
dneary	crashanddie: If I'm the one handling the money, then I'll have to	17:05
udovdh	it can deliver installable packages?	17:05
johnx	yes	17:05
udovdh	like bitbake for OE?	17:05
udovdh	ok	17:05
dneary	crashanddie: And if I'm not the one handling the money, then Nokia will do it	17:05
johnx	you can use it to build debian packages	17:05
woglinde	udovdh you could try chinook-compat distro in oe	17:05
dneary	(that is, if we're going through their accounts dept	17:05
udovdh	woglinde, that sounds interesting	17:06
woglinde	udovdh and with luck it produces a .deb for you	17:06
johnx	and there are some packages for navit for maemo IIRC	17:06
udovdh	if I could re-use that setup	17:06
rm_you	RST38h: don't know that system, but here it's like... MATH-1321	17:06
crashanddie	dneary: then where's the difference between allowing Nokia's accounting to do it directly? If they're going to do all the paperwork anyway?	17:06
udovdh	johnx, I know; just want to build myself	17:06
udovdh	navit is still very much in development	17:06
dneary	crashanddie: I don't know if you read what I said before?	17:06
RST38h	rm_you: STAT400 is a generic Statistics for Engineers, senior year	17:06
udovdh	and stuff changes almost every week	17:06
crashanddie	dneary: http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/security/cc184924.aspx	17:06
rm_you	RST38h: this is statistics for math majors, but it's an intro class, freshman level\	17:07
crashanddie	shit, disregard that, wrong paste	17:07
dneary	crashanddie: If council + quim + Tero + me prepare a budget proposal, approved by Nokia, the money gets set against a project, then people invoice against that project	17:07
rm_you	<_<	17:07
rm_you	RST38h: and the second time I've taken it O_o	17:07
RST38h	rm_you: oh :(	17:07
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dneary	I keep accounts, I'm responsible to the council, the money goes from Nokia's bank accounts to the supplier's.	17:07
udovdh	woglinde, how well does the chinook-compat distro work in OE?	17:07
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rm_you	RST38h: I just don't give a $(@*, so its really hard to pay attention, and it doesnt really sink in	17:07
dneary	We could do it differently	17:07
udovdh	as well as OE works for H2210 ipaq?	17:07
RST38h	rm_you: "This is your brain. This is your brain on math major classes."	17:08
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crashanddie	dneary: I thought Quim clearly stated Nokia would not be doing small payments	17:08
RST38h	wazd: heya	17:08
dneary	Create a dedicated organisation just to organise the event, open a bank account, make a budget proposal to Nokia, Nokia gives us a one-time grant, which we spend	17:08
RST38h	wazd: Good news and bad news	17:08
RST38h	wazd: Good: TI83 now fully funcitonal.	17:08
dneary	In that case, I prepare accounts & forward the council bank statements, they verify my expenditures, done	17:08
rm_you	so i just realized, dsme is open now right?	17:08
rm_you	GeneralAntilles: right?	17:08
udovdh	btw:	17:09
udovdh	what is the best simpel mediaplayer like xmms for n810?	17:09
dneary	crashanddie: we will do it in a way that makes sense	17:09
udovdh	I use xmms on fedora and like it much for mp3 etc	17:09
GAN800	rm_you, yeah, the Fremantle release anyway.	17:09
wazd_n800	hola world)	17:09
RST38h	wazd: Bad: a few TI83 faceplate buttons are misnamed, some symbols are not readable enough and (worst of all) TI83 uses 96x64 display! =(	17:09
crashanddie	dneary: of course, we're just trying to find that one :)	17:09
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dneary	if Nokia making small payments doesn't make sense, we won't do that	17:09
rm_you	so I could make some ABL-specific fixes and release a custom dsme?	17:09
rm_you	awww only for Fremantle?	17:09
johnx	udovdh, good news: you can continue to use it :)	17:09
wazd_n800	RST38h, I know bout plates	17:09
udovdh	johnx, thanks, interesting!	17:09
* rm_you still uses xmms		17:09
wazd_n800	RST38h, fixed already	17:10
RST38h	wazd: The 96-pixel thing is a real problem though =(	17:10
* rm_you still uses his own crazy patched version of xmms (used to do xmms development somewhat, before maemo)		17:10
wazd_n800	RST38h, oh(	17:10
crashanddie	dneary: I'm just raising my concerns about giving a single individual that kind of importance	17:10
RST38h	wazd: There are two ways to handle it	17:10
crashanddie	dneary: I'm not saying I don't want to see it happen, far from it	17:10
* luke-jr uses mplayer + find		17:10
wazd_n800	RST38h, I've made all plates with 96	17:10
wazd_n800	RST38h, just made in narrow	17:11
dneary	And I'm saying that any time there is the possibility of giving one person a lot of importance, there is the possibility to institute reasonable checks & balances	17:11
crashanddie	with immense overhead	17:11
luke-jr	RST38h: wait, did you put Linux on TI83?	17:11
RST38h	wazd: One is to continue using x3 magnification, second is to use x4 magnification	17:11
dneary	What's the best way to get a Beagle Board in France?	17:11
RST38h	luke: No, I put TI83 on Linux	17:11
luke-jr	o	17:11
luke-jr	that's new?	17:11
RST38h	wazd: Have you got them at radikal? =)	17:12
dneary	crashanddie: I would say, as much or as little overhead as is needed for people to have confidence	17:12
crashanddie	dneary: buying from the beagleboard website	17:12
udovdh	ok brb soon	17:12
luke-jr	RST38h: I hope those 96 pixels are zoomed ;)	17:12
dneary	crashanddie: If you're sending a kid to buy bread and you want a check & balance, you give him €1 and ask him to bring you back change	17:12
crashanddie	dneary: an other option would be to create an entity that would handle all the future summits	17:12
luke-jr	that'd be like 1/3 in on the N810 i think	17:13
dneary	If he buys a 5c sweet while he's at it, it isn't a big deal	17:13
wazd_n800	RST38h, I'm heaing back from the country right now	17:13
wazd_n800	RST38h, I tried to upload them yesterday	17:13
Jaffa	crashanddie: and that's getting closer to making maemo.org and/or the Council a proper legal entity	17:13
RST38h	wazd: Understood. Ok, will be doing TI83+ in the meanwhile	17:13
dneary	But if you're giving someone €100,000 and you tell him to go organise an event for 200 people, then of course, you will want to see a budget beforehand, and you'll want to see regular updates on what has been spent, what is planned, and all expenses need receipts of invoices	17:13
crashanddie	dneary: and if you give a single individual 20k to play with, and he skims 1euro off every single transactions, that still isn't a big deal?	17:13
RST38h	wazd: Using x4 magnification may actually be cool for these screens but I am not sure if the keypad will fit	17:14
wazd_n800	RST38h, radikal, iphoto, dump and imageshack didn't e	17:14
RST38h	wazd: GPRS?	17:14
dneary	crashanddie: It's easier to skim off when there's €1 than €20K	17:14
wazd_n800	RST38h, work with shitty gprs	17:14
dneary	crashanddie: When you're at €20K people tend to pay more attention	17:14
* rm_you leaves		17:14
dneary	Which is OK, it's a reasonable level of checks & balances	17:14
GAN800	qwerty12 has GOT to be kidding with the Droid font version string. . . .	17:15
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* johnx still wonders about that 'leaked' Nokia handset photo...it keeps looking tabletesque to me and it has the right features to be the n900		17:18
GAN800	Too small	17:18
Jaffa	johnx: screen might be too small	17:18
Jaffa	Difficult to judge from the photos I saw	17:18
lardman	hope it's not for the very reason GAN800 said	17:18
johnx	people have done 800x480 in 3.5"	17:18
johnx	and really, that's the only want to make something phone sized...	17:18
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Jaffa	The existing screen is too small physically most of the time.	17:18
GAN800	Find the part number for the lcd from the kernel	17:18
Jaffa	(although the device is the right size, a smaller bezel would be nice :-))	17:19
GAN800	3.5" wouldn't fly for Maemo	17:19
Zhilin_n800	back, sorry	17:19
lardman	Jaffa: +1	17:19
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johnx	GAN800, I don't think the kernel would have LCD info...just LCD controller	17:19
GAN800	johnx, look, then. :)	17:19
Jaffa	GAN800: if it is supporting more "normal" phone features - including voice calls without a BT headset - they may have to shrink the device size to make it attractive as a "normal" phone	17:19
GAN800	Jaffa, cuts into the N-series market, and I don't see them doing that.	17:20
johnx	gsmarena has some specs on it and they line up quite eerily: 32GB flash, AGPS, FM transmitter/receiver, 5MP camera, WiFi, TV-out and BT	17:20
GAN800	AKM565 something.	17:20
GAN800	It's a Sony panel.	17:20
Jaffa	GAN800: We could get surprised next week when they announce the first non-Symbian N-series phone.	17:20
johnx	I'll google then :)	17:21
Jaffa	s/surprised/very surprised/	17:21
infobot	Jaffa meant: GAN800: We could get very surprised next week when they announce the first non-Symbian N-series phone.	17:21
luke-jr	btw, is it possible to get GPRS on N810?	17:21
luke-jr	w/ an add-on of some sort?	17:21
GAN800	Jaffa, too soon. I just don't see it.	17:21
Jaffa	luke-jr: via a Bluetooth PAN device, yes.	17:21
johnx	luke-jr, sure: pair it to a phone or use a usb hub and GPRS modem	17:21
Jaffa	GAN800: No, I suspect you're right	17:21
GAN800	Besides, they were very insistent that it was data-only.	17:22
luke-jr	wait, only 1 week until the next gen Nokia? :/	17:22
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wazd	oh, speculations)	17:22
Jaffa	GAN800: Ari wasn't.	17:22
luke-jr	so still no date?	17:22
luke-jr	ok	17:22
johnx	GAN800, hang on I'll dig throug the source again, but I swear I saw something about "celluar call" at one point	17:22
wazd	I like it)	17:22
Jaffa	GAN800: At OSiM he very clearly said "data is all we're talking about today" - and you've seen the files from the SDK talking about voice calls over GSM etc.	17:23
* luke-jr would hate to buy his N810 just before a new thing comes out		17:23
GAN800	johnx, lardman can send you a parts list from the kernel.	17:23
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Jaffa	johnx: you did, I unpacked the source and looked through it myself	17:23
johnx	GAN800, it was a string somewhere	17:23
GAN800	johnx, re the lcd	17:23
lardman	johnx: give me an email address and I'll forward the list if you want	17:23
johnx	ah	17:23
johnx	lardman, mind if I /msg you?	17:23
Macer	damn why can't i live across teh street from the local ups office?	17:23
Macer	then i could just walk across the street and pick the shit up	17:24
RST38h	wazd: I once managed to maintian a gprs connection all the way to .by	17:24
lardman	johnx: np	17:24
luke-jr	Macer: usually not	17:24
Jaffa	johnx: there's lots of stuff about voice calls over GSM in bluez/audio/telephony-maemo.c	17:24
RST38h	wazd: was a bit patchy, but worked	17:24
Macer	i wonder what they do for pkgs for people who live down the block... do they still load it on a truck and drive around with it to drop it off?	17:24
luke-jr	Macer: I've tried that for almost every shipment of mine, and only succeeded once.	17:24
Macer	luke-jr: i've gone to the ups office and picked it up	17:24
Macer	a few times	17:24
GAN800	Jaffa, well, it would solve my new phone dilema. ;)	17:24
luke-jr	usually it's still on a truck, and needs to be scanned etc	17:24
luke-jr	and won't be scanned until the next day	17:25
lardman	ACX565AKM is the panel	17:25
wazd	RST38h, I'm trying to upload 100kb jpg for 5 minutes already)	17:25
Macer	heh	17:25
luke-jr	Macer: the one time I succeeded, UPS decided the roads were too bad to deliver	17:25
Macer	well. i'm waiting on my damn picoUPS today ;)	17:25
Macer	so i can get this damn shuttle k45 working again	17:25
Sargun_Screen	luke-jr: They can do that?	17:25
RST38h	wazd: Just give up and wait until MKAD or something	17:25
Jaffa	GAN800/johnx: http://bleb.org/software/maemo/telephony-maemo.c:source	17:25
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luke-jr	Sargun_Screen: yeah, I don't blame them either	17:25
luke-jr	Sargun_Screen: I almost didn't make it there and back safely.	17:26
Jaffa	GAN800: interesting stuff in there about conference calls too	17:26
Macer	luke-jr: must have been an important pkg ;)	17:26
Sargun_Screen	luke-jr: i didn't know that. I live in California, we get stranded by sub-50 degree temperatures	17:26
GAN800	qwerty12!	17:26
Sargun_Screen	We don't have seasons exactly...	17:26
luke-jr	Macer: no, I just don't fear death enough yet	17:26
Macer	Sargun_Screen: hahaha	17:26
qwerty12	GAN800, yes? :)	17:26
RST38h	azerty12: moo	17:26
GAN800	What the hell were you thinking with that Droid fonts version string? :P	17:27
qwerty12	hi RST38h :)	17:27
GAN800	Jaffa, are the Fremantle sources on mxr yet?	17:27
qwerty12	GAN800, damn, too long hey? :(. I'll reupload, I've got the time :)	17:27
GAN800	qwerty12, yes. :P	17:27
wazd	upload! uupload you goddamn stupid piece of fucking shit! © Onion	17:28
qwerty12	GAN800, :P	17:28
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Jaffa	GAN800: NAFAIK	17:28
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slonopotamus	evening	17:31
GAN800	Jaffa, Maemo is actually going away. They just gonna use the name for open source Symbiab. ;)	17:31
Jaffa	GAN800: :0	17:31
Jaffa	GAN800: :) even	17:31
GAN800	s/iab/ian/	17:32
infobot	GAN800 meant: Jaffa, Maemo is actually going away. They just gonna use the name for open source Symbian. ;)	17:32
Corsac	ok, I have a tricky question	17:32
RST38h	And high end Nokia phones will contain both OMAP and Atom and run Win7/WinMobile	17:32
Corsac	how am I supposed to remove an sd card from a n810?	17:33
slonopotamus	GAN800, ??? no more maemo? have i missed something?	17:33
RST38h	Corsac: pliers	17:33
GAN800	Hahaha	17:33
wazd	RST38h, like htc shi(f)t)	17:33
Corsac	hmhh	17:33
RST38h	wazd: some big HTC shit	17:33
* slonopotamus can't compile pygtk and is sad because of that		17:34
Macer	waiting for this artigo thing to get here sucks	17:34
RST38h	wazd: Btw, did I tell I saw WiBrain sold?	17:34
Macer	i really want to see how well it can run	17:34
qwerty12	GAN800, uploading "1.01-dfsg0maemo1" :)	17:35
Jaffa	Corsac: use your nail to push it in, it'll click and spring out a little.	17:35
wazd	RST38h, it sells under differeent brand here	17:35
GAN800	qwerty12, it's just a good thing h-a-m was patched not to fall to pieces with long versions. ;)	17:35
wazd	RST38h, x-play or something	17:36
RST38h	wazd: Nope, same brand	17:36
RST38h	wazd: and they even have a site: www.wibrain.ru	17:36
wazd	RST38h, oh	17:36
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RST38h	wazd: it is seriously bricky though, and seemingly made of metal	17:37
wazd	RST38h, it looks too brutal)	17:38
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johnx	aaah...supposedly it's not bad to thumbtype on	17:38
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wazd	RST38h, like some industrial console	17:38
johnx	wibrain did a newer prototype that looked neat	17:38
RST38h	wazd: the real thing is even more brutal than the pictures =)	17:38
johnx	but I'm sure it's impossible to actually produce	17:38
udovdh	BTW: what is the spot to file a bug for the usb-otg plugin?	17:39
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wazd	RST38h, wow, I'll place it right after walking excavator in my "real man things" list)	17:40
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RST38h	wazd: It took serious mental persuasion to avoid buying it.	17:40
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RST38h	Costs about the same as an average netbook.	17:40
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sjgadsby	I have Mer working in Parallels now. The VMDK conversion command was, "/Applications/Q.app/Contents/MacOS/qemu-img convert mer-x86-generic-image-v0.7.vmdk mer-x86-generic-image-v0.7-raw.hdd". It seems "-O raw" must not be specified on Mac OS X. D'oh.	17:41
johnx	RST38h, why don't you spend a lot more money for something vaguely better? :D	17:42
RST38h	johnx: this thing is brutally cute	17:42
wazd	I've almost reached my station and haven't uploadedpicture yet	17:42
wazd	life sucks	17:42
johnx	RST38h, thought you weren't a fan of that kind of Soviet era CE? :P	17:43
RST38h	johnx: netbooks are not cute, in general. There are cute MIDs, but the build quality fails them. This one was utterly, totally cute	17:43
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RST38h	johnx: I am, in a sense	17:43
johnx	it's a giant brick though. migh as well just get a decent convertible tablet at that point	17:44
Corsac	what stuff?	17:44
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RST38h	johnx: It is a toy brick, not a giant brick - the face is really small, but the package is thick	17:44
VDVsx	anyone knows if exist some app to export/import contacts from symbian phones/gmail/thunderbird... to the tablets ???	17:44
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RST38h	http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/1289/092ly1.jpg	17:46
Corsac	I'd love a sync stuff	17:46
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: where are the council@ logs published?	17:46
johnx	RST38h, ah, nice portrait. which one is you? :D	17:46
RST38h	johnx: The dominating one!	17:47
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, what logs?	17:47
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RST38h	johnx: makes me wonder what they meant though	17:47
johnx	RST38h, seriously though. that is an awesome picture	17:47
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: a copy of the emails that go through council@ ?	17:47
RST38h	johnx: it is, but what the hell did they mean? it is not a japanese monkey, right?	17:48
GeneralAntilles	crashanddie, considering that the things that go through there are frequently sensitive or confidential, there are none. :)	17:48
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makak	Hello !	17:48
lardman	though they will be available to the next council, is that right?	17:48
johnx	RST38h, where/when did that pic come from. I'm not sure the man in it's Japanese either...	17:48
Jaffa	lardman: I don't believe so. It's just an email alias	17:49
lardman	true	17:49
crashanddie	GeneralAntilles: so all the correspondance a US president has is logged and archived, but the maemo.org council has access to such sensitive information it has to be recursively destroyed?	17:49
crashanddie	Amazing.	17:49
* GeneralAntilles doesn't have the energy.		17:50
johnx	GeneralAntilles, rereading the thread with the LCD part number and TexRat's comment is quite relevant WRT "if it had a 3.5" they'd probably change the naming convention from Internet Tablet"	17:50
RST38h	johnx: no idea but let me search around...	17:50
Jaffa	crashanddie: there was talk of making it a mailing list and publishing it (ala a thirty year rule), or having a mailing list which was passed on.... but it wasn't set up that way.	17:50
johnx	RST38h, though I should warn you that if you're counting on me for any brilliant insights you may be sorely disappointed	17:50
Jaffa	johnx: which they are. Hmm.	17:51
* Jaffa hopes for an announcement at MWC. I hope it's not that one		17:51
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RST38h	johnx: naah, I am currently putting my hopes into google	17:51
crashanddie	Jaffa: and it doesn't strike you as wrong?	17:52
Jaffa	crashanddie: There's not much can be done about it now. I'd like to see if fixed for the next council's tenure.	17:52
* crashanddie bitterly realises there's a shitload of things that slipped through		17:53
crashanddie	maybe not so ideal after all...	17:53
crashanddie	Anyway, time for my cancer shot	17:53
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johnx	haha! getting some results on the LCD from google :>	17:56
luke-jr	so who here runs Gentoo on their N8xx?	17:56
johnx	luke-jr, slonopotamus does :)	17:57
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luke-jr	how about KDE?	17:57
* slonopotamus does		17:57
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luke-jr	slonopotamus: is it usable? :p	17:57
Jaffa	johnx: anything interesting?	17:58
slonopotamus	luke-jr, theoretically it is possible :) practically - haven't tried yet. i'm fighting with wifi/bluetooth now. basic X works.	17:58
johnx	got a hit back for an ACX502BMV that lives in the O2 XDA IIs and III	17:58
johnx	tracking down more specs	17:59
luke-jr	hm	17:59
johnx	mostly I'm curious if the 500-700 range are in fact transflective	17:59
slonopotamus	luke-jr, gentoo kde isn't any better/worse than debian kde i think	17:59
johnx	i doubt I'll find a resolution or size though :/	17:59
luke-jr	slonopotamus: Debian works on N8x0?	17:59
GeneralAntilles	johnx, I found pages on almost everything around that number, but not on it.	17:59
luke-jr	Debian even has KDE 4.2?	17:59
Meizirkki	luce-jr: Ubuntu has kde 4.2 at least	18:00
luke-jr	does Ubuntu run on N8x0?	18:00
Meizirkki	both ubuntu and debian can be used on tablets	18:00
luke-jr	:o	18:00
johnx	GeneralAntilles, I assume it's pretty cutting edge. What would you say about the size of most of the acx series? so far I'm only seeing 3.5" LCDs...	18:00
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GeneralAntilles	johnx, they were all small.	18:00
Meizirkki	luce-jr: KDE 4.2 doesn't run really fast :P	18:00
luke-jr	Meizirkki: reliably?	18:00
GeneralAntilles	But the size variances were high.	18:00
johnx	at least 500-700 does seem to mean transflective (thank goodness)	18:01
luke-jr	Meizirkki: but Ubuntu makes my goal harder :p	18:01
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luke-jr	at least Gentoo supports ACCEPT_LICENSE	18:01
slonopotamus	luke-jr, deblet - tweaked debian to run on tablet. mer is based on ubuntu	18:01
luke-jr	so I can isolate those rare required blobs	18:01
johnx	luke-jr, aaah. do only use things that are 'free' ?	18:01
slonopotamus	hehe	18:01
luke-jr	johnx: ideally	18:01
GeneralAntilles	Does somebody want to update this? http://wiki.maemo.org/Alternative_operating_systems	18:02
Corsac	mpf, the mer installer seems to just fail :/	18:02
luke-jr	afaik, N8x0 is at the point where there's a firmware and charge control	18:02
johnx	soooo...skipping wifi, bt and battery charging?	18:02
slonopotamus	??? charging???	18:02
luke-jr	johnx: wifi is supposedly working Free	18:02
luke-jr	never knew BlueTooth was an issue	18:02
johnx	you probably want wlan-cal though	18:02
VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, mer is missing :)	18:03
luke-jr	if so, I can ignore it, I don't have anything BlueTooth	18:03
GeneralAntilles	VDVsx, clearly. Which is why I'm looking for volunteers to update it.	18:03
luke-jr	and I did list charging	18:03
johnx	ah, though actually the new wifi driver might not need wlan-cal anymore	18:03
GeneralAntilles	johnx, it doesn't require it.	18:03
GeneralAntilles	It has a default set that'll work, but they're non-optimal.	18:03
VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, I can add a short discription about mer	18:04
johnx	well the default channels for cx3110x are quite optimal :)	18:04
johnx	except from an FCC perspective ...	18:04
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slonopotamus	wtf is wlan-cal?	18:04
luke-jr	wouldn't wlan-cal be a onetime thing?	18:04
johnx	per boot	18:04
luke-jr	why can't it store them?	18:04
johnx	because RAM loses it's contents when not constantly refreshed	18:05
luke-jr	dd that RAM to a file and back?	18:05
johnx	slonopotamus, sets some wlan parameters, channels, and power saving it seems	18:05
johnx	luke-jr, because setting them is what wlan-cal does	18:05
johnx	if you know how to set them, you don't need wlan-cal	18:05
luke-jr	eh	18:05
slonopotamus	luke-jr, wlan-cal is in initfs?	18:05
luke-jr	they're in the wifi chipset?	18:06
johnx	they're in mtdblock0 IIRC	18:06
johnx	slonopotamus, yup, along with dsme and bme	18:06
luke-jr	then just write it like any other block device..	18:06
johnx	luke-jr, ok, but how do you set them?	18:06
qwerty12	They're in the wlan-cal binary iirc, it just reads region info from CAL and sets accordingly	18:06
luke-jr	…	18:06
luke-jr	johnx: set what?	18:07
slonopotamus	johnx, hmm	18:07
slonopotamus	johnx, it's in initfs	18:07
slonopotamus	johnx, don't see any problem then	18:07
johnx	you need to take the values from one place (stored in flash) and put them in another place (in RAM)	18:07
johnx	slonopotamus, it's not a problem for us :)	18:07
luke-jr	johnx: system RAM?	18:07
johnx	luke-jr, yes	18:07
luke-jr	so just save that RAM area	18:07
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luke-jr	and then copy it back verbatim	18:07
johnx	good. then work on that :)	18:08
luke-jr	no time	18:08
luke-jr	I'll just ignore it for now	18:08
johnx	:)	18:08
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johnx	you already supported non-free software with your money, you might as well use it	18:08
slonopotamus	johnx, so i don't need to distribute it. it is already present in each tablet	18:08
luke-jr	johnx: I bought it for the hardware.	18:08
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luke-jr	johnx: and I didn't buy it new	18:08
johnx	luke-jr, it's like a vegetarian killing an animal and not eating it out of principal :)	18:09
slonopotamus	luke-jr, why do you want kde 4 on tablet?	18:09
luke-jr	johnx: I don't pretend to know the vegetarian mindset	18:09
luke-jr	slonopotamus: I know how to use it.	18:09
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slonopotamus	luke-jr, hmm. its gui isn't very tablet-oriented	18:10
johnx	slonopotamus, nope. no need to worry about it from a practical point of view. You can count on it being in the initfs of any tablet you find.	18:10
slonopotamus	johnx, the funny thing with gentoo/freebsd is that i practically do not distribute anything but minimal system (which is opensource). i can write ebuild for any program that is downloadable via http and will not count as distributor :)	18:13
cgdel	Hello all, anyone like a good brain teaser? I'm trying to put a new OS but I broke my usb port...	18:14
johnx	slonopotamus, and debian continually gets around distributing by writing packages that cp /downloads/file /usr/share/file or similar :)	18:14
cgdel	I tried to use penguinbait's tools but somehow it didn't work...	18:14
slonopotamus	;D	18:15
slonopotamus	hardcore tester	18:15
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slonopotamus	johnx, that's not so elegant :)	18:15
johnx	slonopotamus, you get the idea though :) there's a million ways to do the same thing	18:15
VDVsx	GeneralAntilles, added Mer and NITdroid, I don't know/remeber more alternatives	18:16
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slonopotamus	johnx, do you have ghc on mer?	18:16
johnx	ghc?	18:16
* johnx googles		18:16
johnx	cgdel, what problem are you having?	18:16
slonopotamus	johnx, haskell compiler	18:17
luke-jr	slonopotamus: RMS would consider it non-Free distro	18:17
johnx	luke-jr, definitely :)	18:17
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johnx	slonopotamus, it's installable. want me to test if it can compile correctly?	18:17
slonopotamus	luke-jr, uh? does debian have nvidia drivers?	18:17
luke-jr	slonopotamus: that's not Free vs non-Free, that's outright illegal	18:18
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johnx	slonopotamus, not in main	18:18
slonopotamus	johnx, nope, thx	18:18
crashanddie	not int main?	18:18
cgdel	johnx, when I try to boot on SD card it gives me an error and boots on flash	18:18
slonopotamus	johnx, and so what? one url or another - doesn't matter	18:18
johnx	cgdel, what does the error say?	18:18
slonopotamus	luke-jr, what is illegal?	18:19
luke-jr	slonopotamus: distribution of nVidia's blob drivers	18:19
johnx	slonopotamus, the idea being that if you only use 'main' you know you're using free software. some people care a lot about that sort of thing	18:19
slonopotamus	luke-jr, writing scripts that download files?	18:19
slonopotamus	luke-jr, or using them?	18:19
luke-jr	slonopotamus: distribution of nVidia's blob drivers	18:20
cgdel	johnx, "Boot from immc2 failed, booting from flash..."	18:20
slonopotamus	luke-jr, they do not distribute it. nvidia site distributes.	18:20
luke-jr	slonopotamus: it's illegal for nVidia too	18:20
luke-jr	anyhow, this is entirely beside the point	18:20
johnx	they distribute only as source, IIRC	18:20
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luke-jr	johnx: no, they refuse to let anyone get source	18:20
cgdel	not very helpful hey, johnx	18:21
Corsac	dpms?http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/non-free/n/nvidia-graphics-modules-amd64/current/copyright	18:22
Corsac	gng	18:22
Corsac	http://packages.debian.org/changelogs/pool/non-free/n/nvidia-graphics-modules-amd64/current/copyright	18:22
Corsac	for the current state of nvidia copyright stuff	18:22
luke-jr	Corsac: that only deals with nVidia's copyrights	18:24
Corsac	wasn't that the point?	18:24
luke-jr	it ignores the fact that nVidia's driver violates copyrights held on Linux from which it is derived	18:24
slonopotamus	crap	18:24
slonopotamus	i can't copy nvidia drivets	18:24
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slonopotamus	s/can't/am not permitted to/	18:25
infobot	slonopotamus meant: i am not permitted to copy nvidia drivets	18:25
crashanddie	luke-jr: Nvidia or NVIDIA, not nVidia	18:25
* slonopotamus wonders if his actions are covered by laws of the state of California		18:26
luke-jr	crashanddie: fine, nvideous	18:26
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luke-jr	slonopotamus: wtf does nvidia have to do with N8x0 anyhow?	18:27
slonopotamus	luke-jr, we were talking about binary blobs	18:27
Macer	holy shit southpark cracks me up	18:27
slonopotamus	luke-jr, and workarounds to make them usable within package management system	18:28
luke-jr	slonopotamus: most binary blobs are legal	18:28
johnx	was nice and quiet in here for a sec :)	18:28
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GeneralAntilles	johnx, had the room all to yourself, eh?	18:29
johnx	GeneralAntilles, yup :) then you guys all came back :P	18:29
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johnx	GeneralAntilles, did you ever try to look for a pattern in the NNN part of Sony LCD names?	18:29
GeneralAntilles	johnx, I think so.	18:30
GeneralAntilles	Don't recall what the result was, though.	18:30
wazd	I'm home!)	18:30
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade's supposition was 16-bit.	18:30
wazd	http://s56.radikal.ru/i154/0902/fd/322d1614120d.jpg <- Ti 84+	18:30
GeneralAntilles	wazd, purty.	18:31
johnx	GeneralAntilles, ah, I think that's a coincidence in this case	18:31
GeneralAntilles	Too bad the aspect ratio has to be off.	18:31
Corsac	oooh, Mer booting	18:31
GeneralAntilles	johnx, yeah, so did I.	18:31
cgdel	anyone knows how I can see what goes wrong with the dual booting?	18:31
johnx	well, I certainly came across 4" parts (ACX526AKM)	18:31
Macer	freakin hybrids man.. they just don't get the job done anymore	18:32
johnx	Macer, yeah, I'm holding out for the chevy volt	18:32
johnx	wazd, looks great :)	18:32
Meizirkki	what the hell is wrong with my n810? when i turn it off, it automatically turns itself back on	18:32
Macer	johnx: am watching the southpark where they make fun of high school musical	18:32
johnx	Meizirkki, plugged into power?	18:33
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Meizirkki	charger is not plugged in	18:33
Macer	where they all keep busting into song and dance	18:33
johnx	Meizirkki, tried popping the battery?	18:33
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johnx	if it turns back on with the battery removed just run :)	18:33
Meizirkki	johnx: yes, when i put it back, n810 turns on	18:33
johnx	huh	18:33
slonopotamus	hehe	18:34
johnx	does it act like the power button is stuck when it's running?	18:34
Meizirkki	nope	18:34
slonopotamus	Meiz, modified initfs recently?	18:34
Meizirkki	but for some strange reason it locks screen and keyboard in maemo	18:34
wazd	http://s50.radikal.ru/i129/0902/3f/1b62ce3e737e.png <- Ti 83	18:34
Meizirkki	(the powerbutton	18:34
GeneralAntilles	Macer, hum, I think I'm behind. . . .	18:34
Macer	GeneralAntilles: lol!	18:35
Macer	"my dad thinks basketball is for sissies..."	18:35
Macer	lol!	18:35
Meizirkki	johnx: power button isn't stuck	18:35
wazd	I'm gonna slp you!	18:35
wazd	slap!	18:35
Macer	they're making their kid reherse how do sing and dance instead of playing basketball! hahahaha!	18:35
johnx	Meizirkki, I don't mean the physical switch, I mean the connection it's attached too (maybe a short circuit?)	18:36
Corsac	hmh, is the Mer first boot, after choosing an username, supposed to be quite long?	18:36
wazd	Ti 83+ <- http://s54.radikal.ru/i143/0902/59/3cea06b9cd17.png	18:37
Meizirkki	johnx: power button acts weird in maemo	18:37
Meizirkki	it locks screen	18:37
Meizirkki	and kb	18:37
StsN802	16-bit screen? heck no, look for 32 or 24 bit	18:37
johnx	Meizirkki, dropped it recently?	18:38
StsN802	source trees indicate rgba	18:38
Meizirkki	nope	18:38
johnx	StsN802, not looking for a specific screen. just trying to track down what an acx565akm is :)	18:38
Macer	i love the fact that my popcorn hour can resume files	18:38
Macer	good firmware update	18:38
Meizirkki	i think this started when i messed with beyboard and ledlight things in mer	18:38
sjgadsby	Grr. All this TI stuff just makes me want a good HP48GX emulator even more. I'm going to have to look at the Power48 source code.	18:38
* Meizirkki flashes initfs		18:38
aquatix	Macer: popcorn hour?	18:38
aquatix	that's some media device?	18:39
johnx	Meizirkki, hmm...maybe, but when the battery is out I don't see how initfs messes with things	18:39
Macer	aquatix: best goddamn media tank ever	18:39
GeneralAntilles	StsN802, some Clutter changes I saw said 16-bit to me.	18:39
aquatix	Macer: ah :)	18:39
johnx	GeneralAntilles, clutter might render in 16bit for speed	18:39
thopiekar	e2fsprogs repacking from ubuntu fails on sb1 maemo4.1 - http://pastebin.com/d25c03abf	18:39
* slonopotamus thinks it's somewhat crazy to boot for charging		18:40
GeneralAntilles	wazd, soften the gradient on the buttons on the 83.	18:40
GeneralAntilles	johnx, yeah, good point.	18:40
qwerty12	thopiekar, e2fsprogs is already in extras	18:40
StsN802	thekondor, we have e2fsprogs already	18:40
Macer	well.. maybe not best	18:40
Macer	but it is the smallest and can play anything i've thrown at it	18:41
johnx	slonopotamus, I agree	18:41
thopiekar	qwerty12: I need a package from this multisource...	18:41
slonopotamus	johnx, possibly thay did that to draw boot picture ;)	18:41
wazd	GeneralAntilles: well, Ti 83 buttons have no gradient at all)	18:42
slonopotamus	s/boot/charge/	18:42
infobot	slonopotamus meant: johnx, possibly thay did that to draw charge picture ;)	18:42
StsN802	how big is the current tablet screen anyhow? 4 inch?	18:42
slonopotamus	johnx, but that's still crazy :)	18:42
qwerty12	slonopotamus, according to timeless, the reason is locales >.<	18:42
johnx	ha! found a acx566akm and it's 320x320 :) so that settles it	18:42
GeneralAntilles	wazd, see http://www.albion.edu/math/MBollman/TI83SEOH.jpg	18:42
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johnx	the next tablet is running PalmOS5	18:42
GeneralAntilles	The black function keys should be slightly convex	18:42
GeneralAntilles	and the numpad should be slightly concave.	18:43
GeneralAntilles	johnx, ha	18:43
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sjgadsby	johnx: Well, at least I'll be able to run Power48.	18:43
StsN802	johnx, 320x320, wtf	18:43
slonopotamus	qwerty12, oh my. i heard laptops somehow manage to charge without locales	18:43
johnx	StsN802, the LCDs in that series have no pattern in the NNN part of acxNNNakm	18:43
johnx	probably not even a linear production date or anything	18:44
johnx	just a UID	18:44
Corsac	mpf, Mer is idling with only the desktop background since like 10 minutes, for the first boot	18:44
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Corsac	I'm not really sure it's doing well	18:44
GeneralAntilles	johnx, that was my conclusion.	18:44
qwerty12	slonopotamus, hey, who says nokia thinks with a straight head? :). It's bullshit because the last time I checked, my last nokia phone didn't say the word charging on it when it was charging	18:44
johnx	Corsac, no progress bar and no desktop?	18:45
Corsac	nop	18:45
Corsac	there was a progress bar	18:45
Corsac	than idle	18:45
Corsac	then ssh keys	18:45
Corsac	then idle	18:45
Corsac	then asked me my name and username	18:45
Corsac	then idle	18:45
Corsac	and there we are	18:45
johnx	ah	18:45
Corsac	(well, maybe not idle, but I have no way to know that)	18:45
Corsac	only the wallpaper appears	18:45
johnx	probably idle	18:45
Corsac	and no way to reach it through ssh	18:46
StsN802	didnt ask device name?	18:46
Corsac	nop	18:46
johnx	it would help me if you told me what you put in for username and realname. you could /msg that to me if you want	18:46
Corsac	Yves-Alexis Perez / corsac	18:46
johnx	I wonder if the - could somehow be a problem O_o	18:46
slonopotamus	hehe	18:47
Corsac	the power management loop works fine, the screen dim after like 1 minute, and then switch off	18:47
slonopotamus	i wonder what you're doing with names in mer if that can be a problem	18:47
Jaffa	slonopotamus: passing the output of zenity to adduser, at a guess	18:47
johnx	slonopotamus, it's a silly little bash script and I'm not great at bash scripts :)	18:48
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johnx	Corsac, try rebooting	18:48
Corsac	ok	18:48
* johnx downloads a fresh image of mer to test with		18:48
thopiekar	... I need e2fsprogs (comerr-dev) to repack curl (libcurl4-openssl-dev) and curl to repack streamtuner as a gui for my new streamripper packages..	18:49
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Jaffa	johnx: what's the launchpad URL for the script? I'll reivew it for such holes	18:49
johnx	Jaffa, lp:~mer-committers/m-r/first-boot-wizard	18:50
Macer	hahaha.. the southpark where the damn kids are all playing a video game	18:50
Macer	during computer class where the teacher is absolutely clueless hahahahaha	18:50
thopiekar	the existing packages in the repos are broken.. http://pastebin.com/d70759a5c	18:50
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*** qwerty12_ is now known as qwerty12		18:51
Jaffa	johnx: ta	18:51
johnx	thopiekar, you didn't try forcing a version with =1.40.3-1?	18:51
johnx	Jaffa, thanks for having a look. try not to be too terrified O_o;	18:51
Jaffa	johnx: change line 66, put $user in double quotes: "$user"	18:51
slonopotamus	quotes are good	18:52
johnx	gotcha. will make the change in a sec	18:52
Jaffa	johnx: similarly for $username_guess on line 70	18:52
thopiekar	johnx: like this? http://pastebin.com/d34a1ab8d	18:52
* slonopotamus will name his son '; kill -9 1'		18:53
Jaffa	johnx: and $username on line 74 & 77	18:53
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johnx	slonopotamus, and your son will never be able to use mer :P	18:53
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Corsac	slonopotamus: “little bobby table”? :)	18:54
Jaffa	johnx: and $username on line 96, 105,; and $hostname on 117	18:54
Jaffa	johnx: that should make it a lot safer	18:54
Corsac	(xkcd.com/327)	18:54
slonopotamus	Corsac, yep :)	18:54
Corsac	ok :)	18:54
Corsac	ok, no Yves-Alexis this time :)	18:54
Corsac	password \o/	18:55
slonopotamus	Corsac, changelog for mer 0.8: added support for Corsac	18:55
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lcuk	Stskeeps, whats the chances of getting clutter running in your emulator?	18:55
slonopotamus	:)	18:55
Corsac	slonopotamus: :)	18:56
Corsac	wow, Fn key doesn't work, no digits ><	18:56
johnx	Jaffa, ok. will do. see anyplace where the real name might be a problem if it has a - in it?	18:56
*** glima is now known as glima[AWAY]		18:56
Jaffa	johnx: probably the first Â$user on line 66	18:56
Jaffa	sorry, $name on line 66	18:57
*** glima[AWAY] is now known as glima		18:57
*** k-s[AWAY] is now known as k-s		18:57
Jaffa	johnx: also, the username_guess will include any non-alphanumeric characters.	18:58
Jaffa	Probably want to change line 66 so it whitelists A-Za-z0-9	18:58
* slonopotamus plans to build maemo kernel in gentoo this night. anyone interested in benchmarks?		18:58
slonopotamus	btw. will everything brake if i use gcc 4.2 for kernel modules while using maemo kernel built with gcc 3?	18:59
StsN802	slonopotamus, btw gtk or glib taking a day to compile is why scratchbox is nice.. occasionally	19:00
slonopotamus	StsN802, disagree. gtk builds fast	19:00
Corsac	thanks guys, it booted fine	19:00
slonopotamus	StsN802, and glib too	19:00
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Corsac	time for a dist-upgrade	19:01
udovdh	slonopotamus, so there is full source for all n810 special drievrs?	19:01
slonopotamus	StsN802, gcc + glibc took ~15 hours. everything else is much smaller	19:01
udovdh	drivers	19:01
udovdh	?	19:01
Corsac	oops, I think I made it crash ><	19:03
slonopotamus	udovdh, better ask johnx/Stskeeps. as i understood, almost yes.	19:04
udovdh	interesting	19:04
udovdh	'almost'?	19:04
Corsac	it doesn't even answer to pings ¬¬	19:05
Corsac	I hate removing the battery	19:05
Corsac	the case and that stuff	19:05
Corsac	dowant a reset button ¬ ¬	19:05
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slonopotamus	udovdh, there are some problems with parts of wifi	19:10
udovdh	ah. is there a wiki with more info about this?	19:10
udovdh	e.g. how the stuff (hardware) is connected, what it consists of etc?	19:10
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slonopotamus	there is kernel config which is used to build maemo kernel.	19:11
Corsac	hmhmh, and how can I “right click” in mer?	19:12
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Corsac	the “long press” doesn't really work	19:12
johnx	Corsac, in which app?	19:12
Corsac	on the network-manager applet	19:13
Corsac	which doesn't find my wifi anymore :/	19:13
slonopotamus	udovdh, diablo-sources (or diablo-kernel-sources) package in maemo sdk repo. it contains patched kernel with config	19:13
udovdh	aha	19:13
johnx	huh...a $name with a - worked for me ...	19:14
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johnx	wow...never realized how insanely fast mer is even on an emulated x86 machine...	19:16
Corsac	urf, and I have two application menus now	19:17
johnx	yeah, I saw that earlier today	19:17
johnx	anyways, two is twice as good as one	19:17
Corsac	and can't remove the spurious one because the plugin stuff wants two plugins	19:17
Corsac	aha	19:18
Meizirkki	this looks like Vista!! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b9ifQvQCO7Y	19:18
Corsac	ok, my enter key doesn't work either, mpf :)	19:19
zs	it is Vista ;p	19:19
Corsac	does the menu uses standard .desktop files?	19:19
udovdh	when I drag icons for apps in 'organise applications' they do not stick in the menus I drop them in	19:19
udovdh	is that an issue or am I doing something wrong?	19:19
Corsac	wow, midori works	19:20
Corsac	nice	19:20
johnx	udovdh, yes...that's a pretty old bug :/	19:20
StsN802	Corsac, known issue, need to use a gconf command after updating	19:20
johnx	Corsac, correct: under /usr/share/applications/hildon	19:20
Corsac	johnx: ok	19:20
udovdh	johnx, where to complain?	19:21
udovdh	same place as for the usb otg plugin issue?	19:21
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lopz	hola	19:23
StsN802	johnx, /share got fixed?	19:23
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Corsac	hmhm and is there some power management stuff in mer?	19:28
Corsac	or should I use gnome-power-manager?	19:28
woglinde	apmd	19:28
woglinde	I guess	19:28
Corsac	yeah but from an UI pov	19:28
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StsN802	Corsac, wait for it.. sadly	19:29
Corsac	for?	19:29
Corsac	g-p-m?	19:29
qwerty12	gnome-power-manager will never work on a tablet	19:30
StsN802	we don't have battery access in hal yet	19:30
Corsac	ha, ok	19:30
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Corsac	(why so? is it because it uses a different hal? no module? something else?)	19:31
StsN802	closed source hald addon	19:32
qwerty12	I'm talking out of my arse sorry, it uses hal like you say. I was under the impression that it got information from apm directly	19:32
Corsac	ok	19:32
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StsN802	also arm is different in terms of pm	19:33
Corsac	and you don't want to use the closed source hal stuff? or maybe you don't have access?	19:33
slonopotamus_	ok. started kernel build.	19:33
StsN802	Corsac, nah.. more like agreement not in place yet on mixing mer and nokia bits	19:35
StsN802	nokia closed source that is	19:36
r2d2rogers	StsN802: midori looks nice on the 770, but it didn't show up in the menu	19:36
StsN802	r2d2rogers, yeah, johnx was fixing	19:36
* slonopotamus_ wonders if linux-omap and muru patches are going to be merged upstream		19:37
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johnx	lots of wind outside O_o	19:40
Corsac	mhmh, enter key works in midori (and gtk it seems) but not in terminal	19:41
Corsac	oh and top hw keys don't work either, but maybe that's another closed source bit?	19:41
dphil9000	installing maemo sdk 4.1.2 on debian stable fails to fetch some .deb's, always fails at the same point - libsmbclient-dev_3.0.23c-losso_i386.deb	19:42
dphil9000	Anone else get that?	19:42
StsN802	Corsac, nah, just unimplemented..	19:42
Corsac	ok	19:42
StsN802	if you see a lacking thing, add it to the sprint todo	19:42
Corsac	the 0.9 one?	19:42
Corsac	or 0.8?	19:42
StsN802	0.8	19:43
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StsN802	tasks overflow to next sprint so	19:44
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Corsac	StsN802: can I disconnect wifi and put the device to sleep?	19:47
gladiac	why is libsmbclient so old?	19:48
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StsN802	Corsac, mm, if you could right click nm you probably could. no such thing as 'put to sleep' btw - it turns off screen and tries to not awaken	19:49
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Corsac	ok but no right clic here :)	19:49
StsN802	yeah..	19:49
StsN802	it was n-m or nothing so	19:49
Corsac	wicd works pretty fine	19:49
Corsac	but maybe not on a tablet :)	19:50
StsN802	or that	19:50
r2d2rogers	are there any instructions on mounting the internal flash on mer (770)?	19:50
johnx	wicd is python, right?	19:50
udovdh	about the app organiser: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2671 ??	19:50
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qwerty12	r2d2rogers, mkdir /mnt/int ; mount -t jffs2 /dev/mtdblock4 /mnt/int	19:51
r2d2rogers	qw thanks	19:51
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r2d2rogers	qwerty12: thanks... (missed the tab)	19:51
qwerty12	/dev/mtdblock4 on N800 at least, run 'cat /proc/mtd' if it's different on 770	19:51
Corsac	johnx: yes	19:51
r2d2rogers	mtd4 is root	19:51
qwerty12	cool :)	19:52
Corsac	hmhm, no way to disconnect wifi and no way to force sleep, I guess i'll shut it down, just in case :)	19:52
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Corsac	oh, and is there an applet clock	19:55
Corsac	not sure if it's the applet, status bar better?	19:55
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thopiekar	is it possible to use the port of streamtuner in garage.m with streamripper?	20:13
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johnx	wow...people running win95 in dosbox on a tablet for a poker game...	20:38
slonopotamus_	omg	20:38
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slonopotamus_	hey. you don't have right click in mer?	20:39
johnx	we have as much right click as hildon does anywhere else :)	20:39
slonopotamus_	hmm	20:39
johnx	didn't we have this conversation a couple times? :P	20:40
slonopotamus_	Corsac couldn't right-click ^	20:40
johnx	that's correct. nm-applet doesn't understand a long tap	20:40
slonopotamus_	oh my	20:40
johnx	not really surprising. it's not hildonized in any way	20:41
slonopotamus_	you've cursed yourself to patch everything	20:41
johnx	yup. because at mer: we like pain.	20:42
_user	Is there a way to clear the on-screen keyboard's history?	20:42
slonopotamus_	actually i don't see any benefits using ubuntu as upstream then. you can't use almost everything with gui	20:42
johnx	we've already had the ubuntu vs gentoo conversation as well, IIRC :)	20:43
slonopotamus_	s/every/any/	20:43
infobot	slonopotamus_ meant: actually i don't see any benefits using ubuntu as upstream then. you can't use almost anything with gui	20:43
_user	What about Debian?	20:44
slonopotamus_	_user, worse	20:44
lcuk	slonopotamus_, for front end apps i dont think there is a route which leaves ANYTHING untouched and fitting in	20:44
johnx	_user, debian is a nice distro	20:44
_user	Runs nicely in a chroot on the n810..	20:44
* lcuk puts a big pile of tissues in the chanbin		20:45
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lcuk	johnx, when are you flying back?	20:45
johnx	lcuk, as soon as my feathers grow back in. molting sucks :/	20:45
lcuk	heh	20:45
_user	But anywho, do y'all know what I'm saying? My on-screen keyboard picked up a password	20:46
lcuk	my osk picked up a virus	20:46
johnx	lcuk, planning a last minute vist?	20:46
_user	I'd really like to clear it	20:46
slonopotamus_	lcuk, you do not patch everything when switch from gnome to xfce, don't you?	20:46
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lcuk	slonopotamus_, you have to upgrade your hand-eye coordination though	20:47
lcuk	and right click still wont work	20:47
johnx	slonopotamus_, that depends on whether it has gnome dependencies you'd like to avoid, doesn't it?	20:47
johnx	_user, sorry, I know what you mean, but I don't know what files it's stored in	20:47
slonopotamus_	johnx,in binary-based world - no. you do not rebuild packages.	20:48
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slonopotamus_	johnx, there isn't openoffice-with-gnome/openoffice-without-gnome	20:49
johnx	yes there is	20:49
slonopotamus_	???	20:49
johnx	let me dig up the packages. one sec :)	20:49
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johnx	slonopotamus_, from ubuntu.com: Package openoffice.org-gnome. GNOME Integration for OpenOffice.org	20:50
slonopotamus_	it depends on openoffice, right? and contains only gnome-specific stuff, right?	20:51
_user	Well. On another note, I heard you can get 3d acceleration on the n810 through Android. Y'all know anything about this?	20:51
slonopotamus_	woops. too many 'right's.	20:52
johnx	_user, there's no way to get hardware acceleration on the n8x0 (unless you write you reverse engineer the hardware and own drivers). sorry to disappoint :/	20:52
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_user	I see.	20:52
johnx	errr...that came out kind of garbled, but I think you get the idea :)	20:53
_user	And Google Gears doesn't work either?	20:53
slonopotamus	hehe	20:53
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_user	MicroB's flashblock is also broken, meh	20:54
GAN800	johnx, somebody should point out PokerTH.	20:54
johnx	slonopotamus, yes of course. I don't see how it proves your point though. there are plenty of packages that have a gnome version and non-gnome version. and plenty of recreations of the same app for different desktop environments	20:54
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johnx	slonopotamus, hildon support can be enabled at compile time and is often maintained upstream (see midori)	20:54
lcuk	im so pleased i sussed out why i didnt need pretty little icons for all my modules	20:55
johnx	_user, google gears was working at one point	20:55
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lcuk	http://liqbase.net/liq.20090212_134028.lib.scr.png :)	20:56
johnx	so each of those is running inside the same process? or are those top level X11 windows?	20:57
slonopotamus	kernel builds alphabetically? i'm at net/ipv4	20:57
* Stskeeps is back on the mertop and ponders what needs to be done on mer before 0.8		20:57
slonopotamus	Stskeeps, mertop - ?	20:58
lcuk	johnx, modules loaded with .so files, like hildon desktop. i couldnt make completely stand alone out of process work	20:58
* lcuk is a shit coder		20:58
johnx	Stskeeps, would you mind taking a look at the last build report from the armel-sb and armel builder?	20:59
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mertop.jpg :>	20:59
lcuk	slonopotamus, the mertop is like the batmobile	20:59
johnx	lcuk, I wouldn't say that so much as you've bitten off a huge project and now you have to chew it piece by piece :)	20:59
Stskeeps	johnx: f*cking ports ubuntu com	21:00
GeneralAntilles	There's something wrong with Stskeeps and I think the only solution is more beatings.	21:00
GeneralAntilles	Also: we need to get him a camera.	21:00
Stskeeps	i do have a camera.. :P	21:00
lcuk	johnx, from my personal perspective the modules were fine before - they in essence havent changed in style from how they were, the api has been revamped and they live in a new class and theres a lot more around, but to manage them all in one project was a nightmare - each needs its own bugtracker etc	21:00
slonopotamus	Stskeeps, oh	21:00
lcuk	so thats why ive stripped it totally back - theres a core library (at about SDL type level) and then the window manager instance which looks for and loads the dynamic .so files	21:01
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johnx	lcuk, so can you have individual liq apps as top level windows?	21:02
lcuk	that was the theory :$ i ballsed up the implementation and it doesnt like to share (it closes the x11 window after the 2nd app closes) its code related and could be cured	21:03
lcuk	right now theres only 1 top level window	21:04
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Stskeeps	johnx: try now	21:04
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johnx	building	21:05
johnx	did you try intel's connman yet?	21:05
Stskeeps	lacks wpa and such, so no	21:05
lcuk	johnx, i could carry on trying to get it right or i can code up the api and event handling required for the modules	21:06
Stskeeps	also i am worried by a project where their repositories and mailing lists suddenly vanish in thin air..	21:06
johnx	their mailing lists are up	21:06
Stskeeps	k	21:06
johnx	and there's deb packaging for it on launchpad so I'll give it a spin	21:06
Stskeeps	k	21:06
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* Stskeeps goes check last nights snap4 and see if it built ok		21:07
johnx	I pushed a new first-boot-wizard, but don't build any packages from it until I test locally	21:07
Stskeeps	k	21:09
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* johnx attempts not to repeat what happened last sprint		21:10
slonopotamus	what happened?	21:10
johnx	lots of last minute bug causing/fixing	21:10
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slonopotamus	heh. that happens in every project :)	21:11
Stskeeps	worst sunday ever	21:11
johnx	yeah...I still barely got it in shape before your time-bomb release script fired	21:11
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Stskeeps	hehe	21:12
Stskeeps	sorry about that	21:12
johnx	not your fault :)	21:12
Stskeeps	i will do it during sunday this time around i think	21:12
johnx	if I thought it was your fault I would have let you deal with it...but it was my fault so I dealt with it	21:12
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slonopotamus	cool	21:17
slonopotamus	kernel's ready, it started building modules	21:17
johnx	congrats :)	21:17
slonopotamus	anyone has timestamps in irc log?	21:17
johnx	yup	21:18
johnx	so does the irc log listed in the topic IIRC	21:18
slonopotamus	hmm	21:18
slonopotamus	modules ready	21:18
slonopotamus	real 105m3.739s	21:18
slonopotamus	is it slow? or very slow?	21:19
johnx	I guess that seems in the right order of magnitude for a native build	21:20
johnx	is this booted into maemo?	21:20
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slonopotamus	yep, in chroot	21:20
johnx	takes a lot of RAM away to begin with	21:21
johnx	did you use swap?	21:21
slonopotamus	i told gcc to use 32mb of ram	21:21
slonopotamus	it didn't swap	21:21
johnx	so you had swap available but it didn't get hit?	21:22
slonopotamus	yep	21:22
johnx	I assume swappiness was set to 1?	21:22
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slonopotamus	i have osso-statusbar-cpu, it showed ~50% in light red during all build	21:23
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slonopotamus	i have default swappiness for maemo	21:23
johnx	then it's set to 1 and you won't hit swap unless it really needs it	21:23
inz	Ooo, does someone really use o-sb-cpu, cool	21:23
slonopotamus	so it didn't need t o	21:23
inz	I though everyone used the other one	21:23
slonopotamus	i use it	21:24
johnx	even if it has to lose all sorts of helpful file caches	21:24
qwerty12_N800	inz: I use both but prefer the graph image from the bora version :)	21:24
slonopotamus	johnx, 50% for processes, 50% for file cache. i had xterm and xchat runing all that time	21:24
inz	qwerty12, but that's for the bora icon theme	21:25
johnx	your build will probably go faster once you can boot natively and once you tweak swappiness a little higher	21:25
inz	qwerty12, I tried to make it fit better with the new icons	21:25
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slonopotamus	and how long does kernel take to build in sb?	21:26
qwerty12_N800	inz: I actually prefer the old one personally, more 'compact' to me	21:26
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: which xmodmap did you use btw? url	21:26
qwerty12_N800	I rebuilt the chinook version actually, using the numbers & background image from the bora version	21:27
slonopotamus	load-applet doesn't have clock, is it?	21:27
qwerty12_N800	nope	21:27
slonopotamus	that's why i prefer o-s-c	21:27
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: the deblet one (http://packages.tspre.org/pool/main/n/n810-slideout-kbd-xmodmap/)	21:27
Meiz_n810	i made some modifications because of the finnish keyboard language	21:28
slonopotamus	johnx, i saw ~5x slower speed on device compared to my desktop single-core athlon xp @2.2ghz	21:29
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Meiz_n810	it's fun to try all kinds desktop-environments in Mer :P	21:29
johnx	slonopotamus, I suppose that seems reasonable. if you're interested in stats check out #merbuilder on jaiku	21:30
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: it works without modification too?	21:30
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: it should work	21:30
slonopotamus	johnx, but 2200/400 is a litle bit greater than 5 :) so 1 arm mhz is more powerful than 1 athlon 64 mhz	21:30
Stskeeps	k	21:30
johnx	slonopotamus, be careful what conclusions you draw :)	21:31
slonopotamus	johnx, what's wrong with them?	21:31
johnx	do you have the same machine except the processor?	21:31
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: there was 4 different options for each key, i removed the fourt option	21:32
slonopotamus	nope, everything else is faster/bigger on desktop.	21:32
slonopotamus	but that doesn't help it :)	21:32
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johnx	except that the seek time on your hard drive is higher than it is on the n8x0, and also you're running different software :P	21:32
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slonopotamus	gentoo on both of them, with same software	21:33
slonopotamus	different kernels	21:33
johnx	really? the same binaries?	21:33
Meiz_n810	phew.. auto-poweron problem's gone now	21:33
johnx	that's a neat trick :)	21:33
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johnx	Meiz_n810, ah nice. did you figure it out?	21:33
slonopotamus	johnx, of course not. it is impossible.	21:33
Meiz_n810	johnx: i reflashed the initfs	21:34
slonopotamus	johnx, you have different numbers?	21:34
johnx	Meiz_n810, well I'm surprised that was causing it, but I'm glad it worked out in the end	21:34
slonopotamus	johnx, comparing 1mhz of arm vs x86?	21:35
johnx	slonopotamus, nope. but I'm just a little surprised that an athlon xp is slower clock for clock than an arm11	21:35
slonopotamus	johnx, athlon xp is a little bit outdated. posdibly core2duo would produce better results.	21:36
johnx	ok	21:37
johnx	~lart intel for making dumber build scripts than Nokia	21:38
* infobot drops a humongous exploding nuke on intel for making dumber build scripts than Nokia		21:38
johnx	I'll wait for someone else to package connman	21:38
Stskeeps	did you add lshal keyboard stuff yet btw?	21:38
johnx	the name of the project should have been warning enough :/	21:38
johnx	nope	21:39
johnx	thanks for the reminder	21:39
Stskeeps	k	21:39
qwerty12_N800	johnx: do you know if it works well? I'm not a NM fan :)	21:39
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johnx	qwerty12_N800, I dunno because I gave up when the build system needed to have udev running ...	21:40
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Stskeeps	qwerty12_N800: next week we should track down your wlan problem :P	21:40
qwerty12_N800	johnx: eurgh...	21:40
qwerty12_N800	Stskeeps: we should :)	21:41
qwerty12_N800	I've got the week off anyway :P	21:41
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johnx	heh...there's already someone working on packages on launchpad so I don't see any reason to risk my sanity	21:41
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crashanddie	that one made me laugh: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6E51BQVOmdo&feature=channel	21:51
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RST38h	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/13/amazon_pulls_sick_japanese_game/	22:19
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johnx	big news! company with image to protect pulls shocking product from shelves!	22:20
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johnx	:)	22:20
lcuk	even bigger news: where the flick is bofh	22:24
t_s_o	i wonder what kind of reaction that game would have in australia...	22:24
johnx	I stopped reading after the original 'episodes'	22:24
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RST38h	t_s_o: Would probably cause copycats all over the place?	22:25
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t_s_o	RST38h: are you not forgetting the recent case where images of the simpsons got slapped as child pornography?	22:26
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suihkulokki	interesting that raping game is a taboo, when games about killing a robbing are bestsellers (GTA IV)	22:29
t_s_o	suihkulokki: not without controversy tho...	22:30
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johnx	every culture gets to have their own weird taboos :)	22:31
t_s_o	still, usa got a real issue with sexuality from what i can tell. see "nipplegate" a couple of years ago...	22:31
t_s_o	johnx: true that	22:31
lcuk	hard core porn this year	22:31
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lcuk	nipplegate == lame	22:31
t_s_o	when it comes to japan its cleanlyness and correctness of behavior from what i can tell	22:31
lcuk	cant wait to see the next superbowl	22:32
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t_s_o	tho i guess they have a issue with real life sexual content as well, tho in some very odd ways...	22:32
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practisevoodoo	anyone got any experince with gpsd on the maemo	22:33
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Phantom	timeless: thanks for help with package manager, it works fine from my local mirror of nokia/maemo repos. ;) sill wonder why it didn't work with web repo...	22:34
johnx	t_s_o, I think the really big taboo in Japan is probably illegal drugs	22:35
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RST38h	t_s_o: I am not very interested in Simpsons or pornography, but given that Australians jerk off at THAT, the game should have stunning success there	22:38
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t_s_o	groan, dont tell me that negadget will be editing in a hockeymask at random in article images the whole day...	23:03
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wazd	And back again)	23:04
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Stskeeps	wb :)	23:05
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Stskeeps	lo b-man	23:06
Stskeeps	b-man: you succeeded in pushing updates?	23:06
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b-man	i'm having problems submitting them :P, i'll pastebin the errors	23:07
Stskeeps	k	23:08
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* b-man is sorry it's taking so long :p		23:13
b-man	Stskeeps: http://pastebin.ca/1336439	23:16
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Stskeeps	ok, first off, export LC_ALL=C	23:17
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Stskeeps	to check out a copy of merinstaller, bzr get lp:~mer-committers/m-r/merinstaller -- it will put it in the directory merinstaller	23:18
b-man	thanks	23:19
Stskeeps	then you go in that directory, do your changes, and to commit it to your local copy, you bzr commit -m "what you did"	23:19
Stskeeps	before you commit, you can review what changes was made, using "bzr diff"	23:19
Stskeeps	then, to push the commits you have made (share them with the rest of us), you do bzr push lp:~mer-committers/m-r/merinstaller	23:20
Stskeeps	and you can grab the changes others have made using bzr pull (or often, bzr merge)	23:23
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b-man	Woho!!!, i successfully updated merinstaller on mer-committers :)	23:34
bef0rd	yijuu	23:35
lcuk	i have a project which has changed quite extensively since i last did svn. what is the best method for bringing it back under svn control?	23:36
lcuk	should i do a checkout of the current svn version and write over all the stuff i have altered	23:37
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lcuk	is there a "dont tase me files bro" command	23:38
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