IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2009-02-12

Stskeepsin mer, just after selecting it in boot menu and pressing center/enter00:00
T3rmyI can't boot in mer...00:00
T3rmyI reboot and hole the Menu key00:00
Stskeepsit doesnt even get to the splash screen?00:00
Stskeepsas in the pretty mer logo00:00
T3rmybut it only boots in maemo (as never had been er)00:00
T3rmyexactly... :(00:01
Stskeepsso it doesnt show the mer splash? strange00:01
Stskeepsreboot, hold down menu key until boot menu shows up?00:01
T3rmypreviously it showed also the text about00:01
T3rmyholding menu key00:02
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Stskeepsrun utilities->install bootmenu00:02
ShutteR77Hi there.00:02
Stskeepsagain, and it may work00:02
Stskeepslo ShutteR7700:02
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T3rmyi try it now00:03
ShutteR77Are you alredy read this news - ?00:03
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StskeepsShutteR77: yeah, VDVsx spoke of it earlier00:03
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T3rmyShutteR77: it is like code jam last year?00:04
ShutteR77T3rmy, yech00:04
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T3rmypretty good :)00:04
T3rmybest utility for maemo :)00:05
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ShutteR77I reading my friend feed and faind this news00:06
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ShutteR77Are you use friend feed too?00:06
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* Stskeeps boots his tablet into mer00:06
T3rmyStskeeps:  congrats...00:07
T3rmyit worked00:07
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StskeepsT3rmy: good00:07
T3rmynow about the pacage you gave me00:07
T3rmyit was for the Fn keys?00:07
T3rmydid it worked on you?00:07
Stskeepsi dont have a n81000:07
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: thanks to timeless and yours truly, we've now got a fully functional theme selector that can be ran from hildon desktop's drop down menu with 'select theme' (and the control panel) :)00:08
timelE61ists: so00:09
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: woo00:09
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: package name00:09
timelE61iI'm about 5 strings from a 0.1.2 beta00:10
b-man|soakedqwerty12_N800: awsome :)00:10
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timelE61iI should have it in 30 mins00:10
StskeepstimelE61i: alright, fixed the 'other strings' issue?00:10
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: hildon-theme-selector (metapackage)00:10
T3rmyStskeeps: the Fn buttons still don't work. In case that I would try to fill some text boxes.. how would it be possible?00:10
qwerty12_N800b-man: :)00:10
timelE61iIt won't include other locale pos00:10
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T3rmy(is there any way to have always on the screenkeyboard?)00:11
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b-manT3rmy: you could install matchbox-keyboard or xkbd00:12
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T3rmydirectly in mer?00:13
T3rmy(which do you prefer?)00:14
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b-manin mer or in a chroot is fine :)00:14
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T3rmyb-man: should I restart?00:17
timelE61ists: so, I'm about 5 strings from a 0.1.2 beta. I should have it in 30 mins. It won't include other locale pos00:17
b-manT2rmy: if you are in mer allrety, you shuld be able to install it from apt and run it from there00:18
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b-manor application manager)00:19
T3rmyI installed matchbox-keyboard00:19
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StskeepstimelE61i: sounds good :)00:19
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: thumbs up on this package :)00:19
Stskeeps(and thanks to timeless too)00:19
T3rmythe x..00:20
T3rmythere isn't00:20
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: :)00:20
qwerty12_N800the sdk icon for themes is rather fugly :p00:22
T3rmyb-man: the other keyboard how is it named exactly?00:22
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: yes, it is00:23
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: works a charm. just tested with tritanium from extras and plankton00:23
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: butever doubleclicking themes icon may show multiple dialogs up00:23
Stskeepsas in, its not a singleton00:23
b-manT3rmy: you will need to install xkbd manually, it isn't available from mer/ubuntu repos, you will need to install it manually;
b-manahh, i hate this keyboard :P00:24
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: adding to mer foundation00:24
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: that can be fixed in the bash script that runs the perl script (cpl doesn't agree with system() & .pl scripts) easily, maybe I'll do so when I'm at a computer - my wrists are a little weird atm :)00:25
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: hehe00:26
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: someone should really donate you a BT keyboard or something :P00:26
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: feel free to mark it 100% as i just tested it too00:26
qwerty12_N800hehe, Addison offered once :D00:26
T3rmyb-man:  the install file?00:27
T3rmywhich one?00:27
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b-mantry the os2008 version - that one worked for me ;900:28
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Stskeepsb-man: so what are the major differences from the installer in bzr and the one you have atm?00:29
T3rmyOS2008 xkbd deb ???00:29
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Stskeepslo daperl00:29
timelE61ists: but first i have to fight vpn00:30
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b-manT3rmy: OS200800:30
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StskeepstimelE61i: i read that as 'fight you' and got a little scared :P00:30
b-manStskeeps: just a fuew tweeks to fix some variable problems00:31
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Stskeepsb-man: alright.. well let us get them into the bzr. got time now to take a glance?00:33
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daperlStskeeps, how are things? I'm in parenting mode so my productivity will suffer for the next 5 days.  But I have all the basic building blocks ready to go.00:35
Stskeepsdaperl: good good, and fair enough on productivity, mine has been bad this week too - laptop fan has keeled over00:35
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b-manStskeeps: yes, but i'm having issues obtaining one of the bzr keys nessasary for me to upload changes to merinstaller on launchpad00:35
Stskeepsb-man: ok, ssh-keygen -t rsa usually does the trick00:36
Stskeepsand then contents of ~/.ssh/ onto lp00:36
b-manStskeeps: it is a different key, i allrety have a ssh key uploaded00:36
Stskeepsmm, and it fails to work for you?00:37
b-manyes :(00:37
Stskeepsdoes the ssh key match the one you have on the account you are using bzr from?00:37
Stskeepsand the ssh key you have upload is in ~/.ssh/id_rsa and (or id_dsa and
daperlStskeeps, bummer. About a week ago, I lost a day after my dev machine had an MBR failure. Good luck.00:39
Stskeepsdaperl: ah, thank god i have learnt my lesson about backups after losing pictures and code since 200300:40
Stskeepsb-man: hmm.00:40
Stskeepsb-man: what do you do to try and upload?00:40
timelE61iSts: bummer, i don't have internet access from home00:40
Stskeepsb-man: did you set your bzr launchpad-login correctly?00:41
b-manStskeeps; i believe so00:42
Stskeepsthat is, bzr launchpad-login yourlaunchpadlogin00:42
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daperlStskeeps, I didn't lose anything; my partition table was intact.  But the surgery took a while.  What's a backup?00:44
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wazd_n800GeneralAntilles, around?)00:45
Stskeepsdaperl: it is what you wish you had when you lose most of your pictural memories because when you were fixing your file server did the stupid decision to migrate a hd in the backup system from one building to another.. and on the way, the hd falls out of the plastic bag on to the very hard concrete slab underneath00:46
b-manStskeeps: it is telling me "The user b-man has not registered any SSH keys with Launchpad."  ---- but i do have a ssh key registered in launchpad but it doesn't seem to se it :P00:47
timelE61ists: ever actually done that?00:47
b-manre: see00:47
wazd_n800Stskeeps, I'm finishing Ti's and starting freerunner ui btw)00:47
Stskeepswazd_n800: hehe, alright00:48
StskeepstimelE61i: yes, which is why i have backups now.00:48
Stskeepsb-man: sure its b-man? hmm00:48
Stskeepsi thought your login was mcbekanize or something00:48
b-manit's b-man00:48
timelE61iSts: so... I'm probably going to punt on releasing00:48
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: settled on for the multiple theme window thing00:49
timelE61iNot having working internet/vpn makes this too hard00:49
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* daperl thinks: "note to self -- do backups tomorrow"00:49
wazd_n800GeneralAntilles, I forgot, do you want 84 or 83+ Hello Kitty skin?)00:49
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wazd_n80084 was really tough one00:51
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r2d2rogersStskeeps: please ping me when you have the HAM sorted out00:52
Stskeepsb-man: your login is mckenzba00:52
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Stskeepsr2d2rogers: will do, its a bit awkward error00:52
Stskeepsb-man: so try with that00:53
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b-manStskeeps; it's working now00:54
* b-man is an idiot XP00:54
Stskeepsb-man: hehe00:54
r2d2rogersStskeeps: aren't they always? ;)  thanks00:55
* b-man finally can apply updates00:55
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Stskeepsr2d2rogers: well this one is stranger than most :P00:57
t3rminat0rb-man:  I can't close the matchbox-keyboard ....00:58
t3rminat0rany ideas?00:58
Stskeepst3rminat0r: i thought you wanted on screen keyboard on, all the time :)00:58
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Macerblah :)01:01
t3rminat0rStskeeps: but now I need to close it....:S01:01
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Stskeepst3rminat0r: killall -9 matchbox-keyboard01:02
t3rminat0rI press the same button that I pressed....01:02
t3rminat0rohhhhhhhhhhhh god..01:02
t3rminat0rI forget that I use linux01:02
Stskeepsb-man: keep me updated when the bzr is fully updated.. branch off the one already there01:02
b-manStskeeps: ok :)01:03
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b-manStskeeps; hmm, i'm getting a "Committing to: /merinstaller/.... bzr: ERROR: no changes to commit. use --unchanged to commit anyhow" error :/01:09
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b-manbut i used bzr commit -m "Fixed an issue with fuser and tweeked a fuew variables"01:09
timelE61ibzr status01:10
timelE61ibzr diff01:10
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Stskeepsbbl sleep01:14
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luke-jrdoes N810 use standard power adapters?01:18
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t_s_oiirc, yes, it uses a standard nokia charger01:24
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AStormluke-jr, nokia plug01:30
AStormthese are AC-4e01:30
AStormyou need ones with at least 800 mA output and the small nokia plug01:30
AStormmost "replacements" deliver only 400-500 mA01:30
AStormAC-4e delivers 890 mA01:30
AStormt_s_o, "standard"01:30
AStormwhy nokia couldn't even use a normal 5V plug..01:30
AStormor especially the USB port.01:30
AStormjust add a second one01:30
AStormit'd easily fit01:31
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t_s_oAStorm: standard for all recent nokia phones at least ;)01:35
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t_s_osure, usb charging would have been nice, but i suspect that nokia used what they had available in terms of hardware, more often then not...01:35
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Mekif it needs > 500 mA, usb charging wouldn't be really possible anyway...01:38
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luke-jrcommon in walmarts? :/01:43
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luke-jreg, should I buy a N810 w/ no charger for $155? :þ01:45
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luke-jr$167 I mean01:47
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benson[away]luke-jr: You can find compatible chargers in Walmart, but not the same current rating.01:47
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benson[away]They'll charge slower, and may not be enough to maintain a constant charge under heavy usage while plugged in.01:48
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luke-jrlikely I can get a good charger for $10? :þ01:48
bensonBut they will charge eventually (overnight) and you can do typical usage without it going backwards.01:49
bensonA good enough one, imho.01:49
bensonOther options include USB charging cables, for ~$2 at dealextreme.01:49
luke-jrI thought someoen just said N810 wouldn't take a charge via USB01:50
bensonBut unless you have a singularly stronmg USB port, they are as bad as the walmart chargers or worse.01:50
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bensonThey have a USB port on one end, and a 2mm jack on the other end.01:50
bensonBut 5V isn't really enough...01:51
luke-jroh, so it's data OR charge?01:51
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bensonThey're handy though, with USB pattery packs that often output 6V or so.01:51
bensonNo, the N810 has a 2mm power port, and a microUSB data port.01:51
AStormMek, it works w/ <500mA, but charges slowly when used01:52
bensonThe cables I'm talking about plug into the PC's USB port and the N810's power port.01:52
AStormbenh, 5V is enough01:52
AStormbenson, it is enough01:52
bensonYou can still use another cable for data.01:52
luke-jr$167 for a N810 minus AC adapter.. what do yuo think?01:52
AStormluke-jr, cheap01:53
luke-jrget it?01:53
bensonAStorm: I've heard it only gets to 80% or so with many USB ports?01:53
bensonluke-jr: I'd consider it a good deal.01:53
AStorm80%? voltage?01:53
benson80% charge state.01:53
AStorm90% or so01:54
AStormthe problem is ofc current-limited charge phase of li-ion01:54
bensonI only got some USB cables yesterday, but it only went to 75% with my USB battery (left it on for ~1 hour at 75%)01:54
bensonBut I'm willing to consider my battery pack is out of regulation. ;)01:55
AStormit probably fails to delivr rated 500 mA01:55
bensonIt did mesh with what I've heard elsewhere, though.01:55
bensonheheh, you're right. it's rated 5V 350mA.01:56
luke-jrgot it for $177.0101:56
bensonluke-jr: for the difference between that and new (~$220), you could probably buy a well-used 770 with charger (it's the same).01:57
bensonHave fun with it!01:57
luke-jrnew is ~$220 now? :o01:57
luke-jrhow is the included car charger?01:58
luke-jrcould I just leave it in the car?01:58
bensonI don't think a car charger is included? It wasn't with my N800...01:58
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bensonBut I found a $6 car charger I picked up was stronger than a (similarly cheap) wall charger,01:59
bensonit was on par with the Nokia AC4U wall charger.01:59
luke-jris that the good charger?02:01
bensonI think because it's easier (less heat dissipation in the voltage regulator) to keep it strong when regulating from 12VDC, but it's cheaper (use cheaper components) to go weaker with a wall charger.02:01
bensonYes, AC-4_ are the 890mA.02:01
bensonAC-4U is the US model.02:01
bensonOther letters mean different prongs for other nation's plugs.02:01
luke-jrbenson: did the N800 include car mount and GPS?02:02
benson(The guts are all the same, it handles 100~24V.)02:02
infobotbenson meant: (The guts are all the same, it handles 100~240V.)02:02
bensonNo, it didn't have either.02:02
bensonFor all I know, the N810 may come with a car charger; I just hadn't known it did...02:03
t_s_othats a funny thing about chargers. most products made in europe or asia will have chargers that can handle most domestic voltages, US products may well only handle 110...02:03
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bensonMany US products handle both voltages, too.02:04
t_s_oheh, maybe its improving over the years02:04
bensonI think most, from what I've seen, but I don't pay much attention...02:04
t_s_ocould be that the ones that do are imports, tho. but no real clue there...02:05
bensonAren't all the European products imported from China, too? :p02:06
t_s_othe cheap and unreliable ones ;)02:06
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t_s_ohrmf, i would not have a issue with using webkit.-eal if it would recover itself on a crash, rather then default to a somewhat broken microb...02:07
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MaceN800back to maemo02:13
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MaceN800gentoo =)02:16
MaceN800there is a flashback02:16
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luke-jr$20 off coupon02:21
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dick-richardsonis there a way to stop the tablet from asking to save the network I'm attaching to?02:25
t_s_oyep, save it ;)02:30
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dick-richardsonthere's no reason for me to save an unsecured network...and most of the ones I connect to are unsecured02:44
dick-richardsonmore accurately about 1/202:45
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t_s_owell if they are networks you use regularly, the tablet can detect and connect quickly next time02:52
dick-richardsonI just don't want it to ask. If I want it saved, I'll set it up02:53
dick-richardsonNot a huge deal, but if it's doable...02:53
t_s_osorry, no idea02:53
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dick-richardsonnp :)02:54
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AStormI suspect Nokia just forgot about that option03:03
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t_s_oAStorm: one more reason to get a replacement going ;)03:07
t_s_owhat does mer use? gnome network manager?03:08
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t_s_ohey a new version of boafm :D03:08
AStormI suspect wicd would work too03:09
t_s_oheh, im not up to speed on wifi configureation tools for linux, i use it on desktops mostly03:11
t_s_oaltho i ponder getting a aspire one, as there seems to be a 1GB ram model going around03:11
luke-jrI presume there's a decent free GPS app? :þ03:16
AStormluke-jr, maemo mapper03:16
AStormuses google maps, openstreet maps, yahoo maps, some others too03:17
AStormyou can pick03:17
AStormfor routing, uses google maps03:17
bensonmaemo-mapper, if you like raster maps.03:17
AStormbenson, anything working with vector ones?03:17
AStorm(no, not openstreet, those thoroughly suck, I'm improving them)03:18
bensonThere's a few others with vector maps, and there is the built-in one.03:18
AStormthe Map app is ok, but ofc not free03:18
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bensonWhich has maps free, but no routing/directions without paying.03:18
AStormand the maps they offer for my area are old03:18
t_s_oheh, always a potential problem03:19
AStormnot too old, but a few years03:19
AStormlike 3 year old03:19
AStormenough to be bothersome03:19
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t_s_oheh, reminds me of some family members that ended up on a recently opened road, the buildt in gps of the car claimed they where in the middle of a field...03:25
t_s_ook, im seriously in love with boafm :P03:27
soapanyone here ever have problems with Claws mail crashing upon checking for new mail?  I saw no reports of such behavior on the forums, garage, or Claws' site.  I'm shocked to think I'm the first.03:33
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derfsoap: How big's the mailbox?03:39
soapmost of which is already on the device.03:39
derfThere seemed to be a large difference in memory usage between just having the mail headers on the device, and actually retrieving messages with it.03:40
soapthat I have seen03:40
derf(even only retrieving a small number of messages)03:41
derfBut if you have swap enabled, it should become unusably slow before it crashes.03:41
soapI'm actually (trying to) retrieve far fewer messages than normal.  Have 500MB on there currently, trying to get ~2MB of new.03:41
soapIt didn't crash (w/o swap) when I initially synced the mailbox.03:42
derfYeah. That is what I was describing.03:42
derfI was able to sync the mailbox without issue.03:42
derfBut upon checking for new mail, it became unusably slow (w/swap).03:43
soapI've been using it for months, it has full messages on it locally.03:43
derfAt this point I just ditched it and went back to using webmail.03:43
soapI'm addicted to my IMAP03:44
derfYes, IMAP is fantastic.03:44
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soapslow I can handle, crash is another thing.03:44
derfBut all the mail clients on the tablet suck for large mailboxes.03:44
soapThat I've noticed.  I might move some of my less-frequent archive off-line and see if that works.03:45
derfI just set up horde/imp on my IMAP server.03:45
derfAlso kind of slow, but it works from anywhere.03:45
soapscreenshots look decent - as in sufficiently lacking in eye-candy to possibly be functional.03:46
derfThen all you have to worry about is the browser being flaky, but people seem dedicated to fixing those kind of problems.03:46
soapthanks for your input - wife is calling 'dinner'.03:47
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derfGood luck.03:47
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Macerblah. work tomorrow04:03
Maceri need to shove a ton of damn videos on my n800 to bring with04:04
Macerheh... too bad there aren't any interesting shows anymore04:04
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soapRobot Chicken, Venture Bros, True Blood got a lot better as the season went on, the list is long.04:15
Macertriple core amd phenom04:15
Macerwhat an abortion04:15
Macerthey should be ashamed selling those :)04:16
Macerdo they call a "working" phenom a phennom II?04:16
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Proteousnothing wrong with a triple core phenom04:41
Proteousthe price/performance is pretty damn good04:41
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luke-jrMacer: afaik, Intel sells Core 2 Trios04:45
Maceri've never seen a trio04:46
Maceronly duos04:46
MacerProteous: i just can't do the lemon cpu04:46
Proteousall CPUs are like that04:47
Proteousthey come off of one big die04:47
Macerbut not all are from design flaw04:47
Proteousthey test em to see how fast they will go and put them into different bins04:47
luke-jrProteous: except the very highest end04:47
Maceri could understand speed testing04:47
Proteousit's not a super exact science04:47
Macerand rating04:47
Macerbut a 3 core amd is just a design flaw04:47
Proteousbetter not look into GPUs04:47
Proteousall of them have a ton of dead cores on them04:47
luke-jrMacer: I bet those dual cores are quads with 2 broken cores04:48
Macerwow that is a beast of a mini itx04:48
luke-jrhm, I wonder if you can get a three-core, and hack it to enable the fourth at a slower speed04:48
luke-jrfor special-purpose stuff04:48
Macerheh i doubt it04:48
luke-jranyhow, I'm mostly happy with my good old Athlon64 3200+ (predates dual core)04:48
Proteousthey are hard cut04:49
luke-jrwhich is my newest CPU04:49
luke-jrProteous: solder? :þ04:49
luke-jrthe only real CPU issue I've had is playing 1080p04:49
Macerrating speeds are different from design flaws04:49
Proteousno, laser cut the traces04:49
luke-jrand tbh, I don't think that's really a CPU issue04:49
Proteousmacer, not really04:49
Proteousthe speed that it will run is directly dependant on the flaws in the die04:49
luke-jrMacer: what do you do if 3 cores can go at 3 GHz, but one is only up to 1 GHz par?04:49
luke-jrMacer: underclock the 3 cores to match the 1?04:49
Macerflaws of a die are like flaws in a diamond04:50
Macerthat is something a little more natural than "oops. we fucked up the design and now can't use a core"04:50
Proteousdiamonds don't give you back 5 when you add 2 and 2 on them04:50
luke-jrMacer: what do you do if 3 cores can go at 3 GHz, but one is only up to 1 GHz par?04:50
luke-jrMacer: that is probably the "can't use a core" scenario04:50
luke-jrit's just not up to the same speed rating as the other 304:50
Macerbut it was still a design flaw04:51
Proteouseither way, you don't have to buy any, that just leaves more $119 3 core CPUs for me04:51
luke-jrand what idiot will understand "quad core; 3x 3 GHz and 1x 1 GHz"?04:51
luke-jrthat will just confuse the heck out of the average consumer04:51
Macerhahaha... yeah i suppose so04:51
MacerProteous: 119? :)04:51
Proteousit's not a design flaw, it's a manifacturing flaw04:51
Proteousand it's inherent in the process04:52
luke-jranyone have a N770 they want to get rid of? :þ04:52
luke-jrebay seems to be out04:52
MacerProteous: a 4 core (working) phenom is 18904:52
Proteoushard to find nowdays04:52
darkblue_Bluke-jr: I get a lot of mileage out of my 4400+ Brisbane04:53
Proteousmy $119 3 core can OC to 3ghz04:53
Macertriple core 2.3 is 8704:53
Proteousyou could pay $100 more for 2 cores you aren't even going to be using anyway04:53
Proteousnot with current OSs04:53
Macer2.4 is 126 (triple core)04:54
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Macer$60 for a faster working core?04:54
Macer2.5 quad core is 17504:55
Proteousprice performance sweet spot for me:
Macer$49 for a "non-lemon" working quad core over a triple core :)04:56
Proteousblack edition, so the mulitplier isn't locked04:56
luke-jrdarkblue_B: what's that?04:58
Macereither way. i'm looking i'm still pretty stuck on that mboard tho04:58
Maceronboard geforce 8200 am2+ mini itx04:59
Macerthat would be a hell of a small system :)04:59
Macer4 sata ports on a mini itx mboard? :)05:00
soapI use all my cores, thank you very much, Proteous05:00
ProteousMy miniITX computer:
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Proteousadded in an additional ethernet card and it's running as a firewall/router now05:01
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darkblue_Bluke-jr: an AMD 64 cpu05:02
darkblue_B65w with a low power mode... dual core.. pretty good performance too05:02
MacerProteous: wtf? :)05:03
Maceris that an old tape deck?05:03
Macerthat's .. interesting05:03
soapI hope 65w is the maximum power draw.05:04
soap(don't know AMD chips well anymore)05:04
Proteousyeah, it is05:04
Macerwhat do you use for power?05:04
soapI was going to say - my entire C2Q system pulls barely 120, 1 monitor included.05:05
darkblue_Bits an 80+ power supply.. 400w I think05:05
darkblue_Bno video card05:05
darkblue_B80plus is really interesting..05:05
Proteousmacer, a laptop like power brick and a DC/DC tiny power supply that plugs into the 20pin slot05:05
Macerthat's what i got for my K4505:06
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Maceri was just looking for the power port on the back of the box05:06
Proteousthose pictures don't show it, when I took them I didn't have it05:06
Proteouswas running it off of a full sized ATX powersupply for a while when I first built it05:07
Proteouswas as big as the tape deck case...05:07
Maceri had to get a picoUPS for that thing05:07
Macerpsu died on me .. what a piece of shit psu it was05:07
Proteousmine was destroyed by the PSU too05:08
* Proteous cries05:08
Proteouswell, partialy my stupidity05:08
Macerwell. the psu didn't kill it05:08
Proteoustrying to run a 12v pump off of the crappy stock PSU05:08
Macerbut the fan was grinding so loud that i tossed the psu and ordered a picopsu05:08
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matt___Was wondering...would it be possible for me to setup vlc on my desktop, and then stream a video to my 810 over wireless?05:09
MacerProteous: what.. the.. fuck? :)05:09
Maceryou don't think that was a tad bit overkill?05:09
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Proteousheh, never!05:10
Proteousit was all for looks05:10
Macerwhat the hell were you trying to run in that thing05:10
Macera goddamn 2.0GHz cpu oc'd to 5?05:10
ProteousI belive it was a 2400+ mobile chip that I was overclocking05:10
Proteousstock 2ghz, I could get it stable at 2.505:11
Maceri like the radiator on top05:11
Macernice job05:11
Macercustom built i am guesing?05:11
Proteouswell, the waterblocks are from dangerden05:11
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Maceri'm talking about the radiator frame05:11
Proteousbut the tubing and fittings are custom05:11
Macerdid you ever finish that?05:11
Proteousyeah, that is custom too05:12
Maceri don't usually do much custom type work05:12
Macerdon't have the metal skills heh05:12
Proteousit was just cut from some aluminium square tub05:12
Proteousno wielding or anything05:12
Proteouswielding aluminium is hard, even with the right equipment05:13
Macerthat's my beast of a fileserver05:13
Maceralthough nowadays it's not as nice as it used to be :)05:13
Maceri love thermaltake armor cases05:13
Proteouslian-li fan here05:14
Macerwhat i really wanted but could never find is a thermaltake sword case05:14
Maceri think they made 4 of them or something haha05:14
Maceri could never find one05:14
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Maceri think i am going to start building one of these mini itx boxes05:15
Proteouswhat kind of raid card is in your server?05:15
Maceram2+? :)05:15
Macerareca areca arc-112005:16
Macerpci-x (remember that?)05:16
ProteousI have a 3u server sitting in my closet, not running05:16
Macerit had its brief moment in history :).. it's a pretty solid card05:16
Macerrunning the 8 drives raid 605:16
Macerso i get like 5.5 out of them formatted05:17
Proteousit has a 3ware pci-x 8 port raid card in it05:17
Macerforgot what model of tyan i have in there05:17
Macerit's a dual socket 940.. but i skimpped on the cpus and got 1.8GHz dual core cpus05:17
Maceri put 8G in it after those pics05:18
Macerso it's a dual dual core 1.8GHz w/ 8G and 8TB05:18
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Macermy dns/shell box :)05:19
Macermy dual p3/500MHz BEAST05:19
Maceri used a compact flash as the main drive for it05:20
Macerwith 2 adapters on it haha05:20
Macerand electrical tape05:20
Macerthere is kind of a blurry picture of it05:20
Macerwas too hard to take a clear one05:20
Maceroh yeah.. and zip ties :)05:21
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Maceri love that computer. it always ran true heh05:22
Macerit can still run xp like a champ haha.. with it's PC3200 dimms!05:22
Proteoushmm, an Iridium commercial satellite and an older russian satellite collided in orbit05:24
Macerthe sat phone people? :)05:25
Macerwell.. that can't be good05:25
Macerused to use them a lot in iraq to call home05:25
Proteous1000lb satellite, not cheap to put into orbit05:25
Macergod knows teh russians aren't going to pay for it05:25
Proteouswonder if they had satellite insurance05:26
Macereven though i'm sure it was their fault05:26
Maceriridium doesn't need insurance05:26
Macerthey have a huge govt contract05:26
Macerthey can just piggy back it into a nasa shuttle :)05:26
Macerbelieve me.. the govt does NOT want to give up those sat phones05:27
Macerplus iridium has encrypted phones for military use05:27
Maceri'm pretty sure there aren't too many places that do05:27
Maceryou can go covered with govt issued ciphers05:28
MacerFSB2600MHz Hyper Transport (5200 MT/s)05:28
rm_youjohnx: johnx?05:28
rm_youSomeone know about version tags in the debian changelog file?05:31
rm_youfor instance:05:31
rm_youadvanced-backlight (0.14-3) unstable; urgency=low05:31
rm_youwhere it says "unstable", what are my other options?05:31
MacerAMD Athlon 64 X2 5050e Brisbane 2.6GHz Socket AM2 45W Dual-Core Processor Model ADH5050DOBOX - Retail05:31
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Maceri would get nervous running something over 45W :)05:32
Maceron a mini itx board05:32
Proteousit's traces are just as big as the traces on an ATX board05:32
Maceri should have said case05:32
Proteousas long as you have a good heatsink and fan05:32
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Maceri'm sure any mini itx case i find will have a shit psu05:33
Macerlike my shuttle05:33
Macerwith its out the box grinding05:33
matt____is there a thing I can install to enable .mp3 video playback?05:33
Macer.mp3 video playback?05:33
Maceruse mplayer05:33
Proteousnever heard of mp3 video05:33
Macerme neither05:33
Proteousmpeg2 yes, mpeg4 yes05:33
Macerbut i'm guessing he means videos encoded w/ mp3 as the audio track05:33
Proteousmp3, no05:34
Proteousmpeg2 layer 3 audio05:34
matt____I mean't mp4, sorry.05:34 mplayer successfully opened the file, but it must be too high of a bitrate. Is there a page for "recommended specs or something for the videos?05:35
matt____I mean, I was getting like 10spf (10 seconds per frame).05:35
Macerframes per second05:35
Proteousyeah, not a lot of power on the NIT05:35
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Maceryour best bet is to use nero. and encode it with an ipod profile05:36
Macerat least i found that to be the easiest way05:36
matt____Macer: no no...seconds per frame.05:36
matt____Macer: if I do that...does it play successfully?05:36
ProteousI use tversity running on my media server, encodes my files on the fly and streams them to my n81005:36
Macerno... no no no.. frames per second05:36
Macerhence... it being called.. fps and not spf05:36
Macerseconds are always the same05:36
Proteous10 seconds per frame == .1 frames per second05:36
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Maceryou don't measure speed with time being first05:37
Proteousyou can measure it any way you want05:37
matt____Proteous: settled then. tversity...I tried vlc to stream...but it didn't quite work...but I didn't know what I was doing. I suppose it isn't much different that setting up a server for a xbox 360 is it?05:37
Maceri suppose.. but that would be awkward05:37
Macerlike people who use dvorak keybaords05:38
Proteoustversity is pretty simple to setup05:38
Proteousthe systm video podcast did a show on it last week05:38
matt____Proteous: and what would i use to see the stuff from my nokia?05:38
Proteoustversity has a preset for the tablets05:38
Proteousit can autodetect the device and uses the right encoding settings05:38
matt____Proteous: I'll take a look, got a linky?05:38
Proteousit's windows only05:39
matt____Proteous: why the hell? That sucks.05:39
Proteousnot sure if that is a problem05:39
matt____Proteous: It is a very serious problem. Anything similiar for linux?05:39
Proteousnot sure, maybe mythTV can do it05:39
Macersome of these mini itx cases are HUGE05:39
Macerwtf? :)05:40
Proteousjust need an old tapedeck...05:40
Maceri honestly thought the shuttle was rather large05:40
matt____Proteous: wonder if it'd work in wine?05:40
Macerbut i didn't mind when i found out i could put a slim dvd burner in it later on05:40
Maceri still don't understand that clear panel concept though.. are you supposed to print up mickey mouse pics and punch holes in it or somthing?05:41
Maceri suppose i could put a picture of my son in it05:41
Macerbut that just seems tacky05:41
Macerlook at that... 9.8" deep?05:42
Proteouslooks like tversity can be run from wine, but the encoding doesn't work05:42
matt____Proteous: Do you have any experience with vlc?05:43
Proteousnothing besides occasional playback with it05:43
Macerand what's with the "japanese steel" shit05:43
Macerlike you are trying to buy a sword or something05:43
Proteousmy kitchen knives are japanese steel05:44
matt____Proteous: Do you have it installed? If so...could you take a look at the stream output section and give me a hint if it'd work?05:44
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Maceri'm sure the $90 case compares to a razor sharp knife ;)05:44
Macerthat is as big as the shuttle05:45
Macer17.0'' x 11.8'' x 9.1''05:45
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Macerthat one is pointless. for something like that you should just build a microatx05:47
Macerok... that one is interesting05:50
Proteous...05:50 plz05:50
Maceryah.. sorrry05:50
Macerdidn't realize how long it was :)05:50
rm_youGeneralAntilles: pushing ABL 0.15-0 to extras-devel for basic testing05:51
* benson applauds, and runs to try it out.05:53
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Proteousmatt____: there is a mythTV frontend for maemo called MaemoMyth05:56
matt____Proteous: How well does it work?05:57
Proteousheh, no idea05:57
Macerwow... now that looks very interesting05:57
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rm_youdamn, i386 build is failing.... i don't really care but it isn't showing up in the promoter for some reason still?06:17
rm_youX-Fade: chinook promoter is broken?06:18
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timsamoffrm_you: X-Fade's offline this week.06:21
rm_youah :/06:25
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tonyyarussoIs always this slow to respond?06:38
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b-mannice :)06:57
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Maceri am going to buy one of these...06:59
Macerthat thing is badass :)07:00
Macerthink i'll put debian on it07:00
GeneralAntillesrm_you, good, now line up .16, .17 and .18 for release every 10 days for about the next month. :P07:00
GeneralAntillesrm_you, you don't even have to change the code.07:01
GeneralAntillesJust "fix" some nonexistent bugs.07:01
rm_youGeneralAntilles: I is not a corrupt coder :P07:01
rm_youmy checksum is valid? :P07:03
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CorsacStskeeps: hey, do you know a calendar/contacts sync service on Maemo and/or Mer?08:52
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Stskeepsmm, well if a small one exists for ubuntu it exists for mer08:59
Corsacnot quite the answer I expected ;p09:00
CorsacI was a bit surprised Maemo didn't even come with a calendar, in fact09:01
Stskeepswell it wasnt a pda, but an IT09:01
Stskeepsbut yes, i agree09:01
Stskeepsthere's also dates-hildon and contacts-hildon and tasks-hildo09:01
Stskeepsfor um, works in mer09:01
Stskeeps(except maybe dates-hildon, not sure why)09:01
Corsacyeah, the replica of contacts/dates/tasks09:02
Corsacwhich are nice, sure09:02
Corsacnow I just need to find a way to sync them :/09:02
Stskeepswell on the other hand, you dont need to port 56225 libraries to support typical syncing solutions09:03
Corsacon the third hand, I don't know a really working sync solution on Linux09:03
CorsacI was a bit hoping that maemo had a magical solution which I could use to sync all my contacts and calendars between phone and computer :)09:03
Stskeepsyeah, true. one of the things MS got right :P09:03
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Corsacho and the device didn't went to sleep last night ><09:03
darkblue_BI've heard calendars are still hard.. competing standards, and internationalization09:05
darkblue_Bbelieve it or not09:05
Corsacyes, basically they suck09:05
Corsacthere's the iCal standard, but everybody implements it differently :)09:05
Corsacespecially in phones09:05
darkblue_Bhey I loaded Mer for a minute and it seemed like a ghost town.. I am not that familiar with the repos..09:06
Corsacand the way one can access the data is different too09:06
darkblue_Bcan I get the Hildon Python in some relatively straightforward way for mer?09:06
darkblue_Bwith my actual Nokia N800 all I have to do is load one of any number of small apps, and the python setup comes along09:07
CorsacThe following packages have unmet dependencies:09:08
Corsac  hildon-initscripts: Depends: osso-af-startup but it is not going to be installed09:08
Corsacscary ;p09:08
StskeepsCorsac: what did you try to add?09:08
Corsacnothing, I just tried a dist-upgrade09:08
Stskeepsdarkblue_B: what most people dont realize is that the entire catalogue of ubuntu is there too09:08
Stskeepshomeip will drag in python hildon i think09:08
Corsacwhich is the last version anyway09:09
Corsacas osso-af-startup09:09
StskeepsCorsac: what repos do you have added?09:09
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darkblue_BStskeeps: thats ok, I run Ubuntu.. b ut I wanted to try to write some Hildon things09:10
darkblue_Byes, Home IP brings in quite a bit...09:10
darkblue_Bmaybe I shold look again09:10
RST38hA US Iridium satellite has hit a defunct Russian satellite in an unprecedented space collision. The crash occurred some 790km (491 miles) over Siberia on Tuesday, according to NASA, and produced a "massive" cloud of debris!09:11
RST38hOh yesss09:11
Corsacstar wars!09:11
CorsacRST38h: url?09:11
* RST38h almost said that09:11
darkblue_Bspace junk09:12
darkblue_BCorsac: thx09:13
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StskeepsCorsac: .. on mer or maemo?09:14
Corsacwith Mer I would have ubuntu and mer repository I guess09:15
CorsacI still didn't had time to buy an SD card :/09:15
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Stskeepsah, ok09:15
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CorsacStskeeps: adding Debian or Ubuntu repositories to a maemo install sounds like a bad idea, I guess?09:17
bef0rdsounds like something that won't work at all09:17
RST38hCorsac: Dont09:17
Corsacok :)09:18
StskeepsCorsac: bingo, mer and maemo repositories are remotely insane, but they work sometimes cos of pinning09:20
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Stskeepsr2d2rogers: HAM back up again it seems, must have found a bad time to pull from ubuntu repository when it was built09:35
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CorsacStskeeps: btw, the Mer base system looks more to Diablo or Freemantle, or to Ubuntu?09:40
StskeepsCorsac: more ubuntu than maemo but more maemo than ubuntu.. is the kinda balance we try to strike. Mer UNIX base system is ubuntu but may be altered to be more Maemo-like in terms of power saving/bootup/etc. Mer UI and some central UI libraries is maemoish09:41
Stskeepsbut we arent seeing tablets as embedded systems, which means no busybox, for instance09:42
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jaemso... how about scrapping Mer, and working on a Plan 9 port :P09:44
jaemjust kidding09:44
* johnx grabs his coffee and sits down09:45
johnxmorning all09:45
jaemwhat is this "morning" you speak of?09:45
CorsacStskeeps: yeah, I meant really base system, especially stuff like initial startup, initscript and stuff like that09:45
infobotwell, ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant.
Stskeepsjaem: how about we all just buy a warehouse full of tequila instead of coding09:45
StskeepsCorsac: upstart and such really :P09:45
jaemsts: that sounds marginally less productive09:46
infobotjaem meant: sts: that sounds entirely less productive09:46
johnxCorsac, that part is very similar to ubuntu right now09:46
Corsacbut that sound more tequilive09:46
jaemthat sounds like texlive09:46
johnxpotentially it could change to be more maemo-like if there is a big advantage09:46
Corsacnot sure texlive on a tablet would be a good idea09:47
Stskeepshas to be tried..09:47
Corsacnot sure tequila on a tablet wood be a good one either09:47
Stskeepsi mean, latex on 133mhz worked09:47
jaembeat me to it09:47
* Corsac beats jaem 09:47
* darkblue_B show three of a kind09:48
* jaem dunks Corsac's tablet in Sts' tequila09:48
* darkblue_B watches three stooges09:48
Stskeepsdamnit. its 8:48am and i feel like drinking tequila09:49
Stskeepsdamn you09:49
johnxgot a bottle that needs finishing right over here :)09:49
johnxdrop by before I head out for work09:49
Stskeepsi am heading to work in a bit too09:50
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jaemI have an ammendment to make to the UGT definition09:51
jaemit's not late night when a member leaves09:51
jaemit's early morning09:51
jaemusually about 3AM09:52
GeneralAntillesSprint reporting has gone totally down the drain.09:52
* GeneralAntilles needs to incentivize.09:52
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jaemas opposed to being partly down the drain?09:53
jaemstuck halfway, like a ball of hair?09:53
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jaemand fingernail clippings...09:54
johnxjaem, that sounds fair enough :) but still we'd say 'good night' in that case in most English speaking countries :P09:56
jaemfair enough09:57
jaemit's getting to the time i should be heading to bed09:57
jaemI have a four-hour physics lab at 8:30AM09:57
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: make it easier? :P09:57
Stskeeps(link it to a jaiku channel or alike, we have a rss channel now :P)09:57
Stskeepschannel / plugin09:57
jaembut I'm trying to figure out how to install Plan 9 on an old SPARC box, without a monitor09:58
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, not a bad idea, but I'd rather not resort to an outside service to do it.09:58
GeneralAntillesMaybe there's a plugin. . .09:58
jaemI'd be happy to test out Mer when I get my tablet back09:59
Stskeepsjaem: you can always grab the VMDK too09:59
jaemyes, and I may, but I find it easier to use on the real HW10:00
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Stskeeps(heh, vmdk images might actually make presentations a hell bloody easier on maemo summits..)10:00
jaemI think I've finally gotten my warranty problems worked out10:00
Stskeepshehe, at least we have fixed the ctrl-m problem now10:00
jaemNokia messed up on the customs paperwork, and UPS wanted to charge me $6410:00
Corsachhmh, GSMA Mobile World Congress is next week, it's about time to speculate about N9xx, doesn't it?10:00
StskeepsCorsac: iTT is speculation city10:01
GeneralAntillesCorsac, speculation is done. ;)10:01
GeneralAntillesNow we just need an announcement to confirm it. :P10:01
Corsacyeah, sure10:01
jaemthe speculation makes me wish I was several hundred dollars richer10:01
GeneralAntillesjaem, hurry up and churn out some packages.10:01
Corsacthat would be the right time, just after the prices drop on n81010:01
GeneralAntillesMaybe you can snag a discount. ;)10:01
Corsacbut announcement != availability anyway10:02
Corsacyou have some more time to rob a bank or something10:02
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jaemGA: which packages?10:02
GeneralAntillesI might be willing to trade open development for an N800-style announcement at this point.10:02
GeneralAntillesjaem, any packages. Get your karma up. ;)10:02
jaemfor Mer, you mean?10:02
Corsachow was the n800 announcement?10:02
jaemI can see about that10:02
GeneralAntillesCorsac, announced and released on the same day.10:03
jaemI have a VM with scratchbox on my friend's server10:03
Corsacthat sounds like adultery10:03
johnxbasically announced by CompUSA :)10:03
jaemGA: how best to get involved?  What needs doing?10:04
RST38hIs CompUSA sitll around? =)10:04
johnxRST38h, nope. that's what happens to people who leak Nokia product info10:04
RST38hjohnx: Scary10:04
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Stskeepsi still think the moment they release info on the future UI, is when they announce the product, though10:05
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GeneralAntillesjaem, if it's Mer you want to help with, talk to Stskeeps and johnx.10:08
hahloisn't mer french word for sea?10:10
RST38hit is10:12
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gomiamhahlo: mmm... I thought it was mêr. I was mistaken.10:13
gomiamthere is this untranslatable word play in Spanish about mer and clams...10:17
solmumahai think it also means more in swedish10:18
johnxjaem, sorry, I'm on my way to work, but check out the Mer's sprint page and see if there's anything there that interests you10:18
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gomiamsolmumaha: that wouldn't surprise me much, since "mehr" is "more", in German (and they share linguistic roots IIRC)10:18
jaemjohnx: willdo... I'm not up to much coding at the moment, not having had any experience with GTK/Hildon, but I'll see what I can do10:19
StsN800is always a good way to learn10:20
StsN800and 80% of mer work isnt ui coding atm10:20
jaemokay, well, I'll take a look10:21
jaemright now, actually10:21
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StsN800the double application bug could need some tracking down10:26
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StsN800visible on x86 too10:27
liriuhh... more package install errors10:35
liriI wonder how all of this is happening10:35
aquatixmorning all10:36
lirimorning aqua10:36
liriI'm getting a dpkg install when attempting to manually install the apache2 webserver package I got from maemo gargae :
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RST38hAnything familiar?10:41
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GeneralAntillesWhy can't we get any damn RX-51 leaks? :(10:45
RST38hMaybe because Nokia does not intend to announce it at the MWC?10:47
GeneralAntillesRST38h, but we got N810 and N800 leaks very early on.10:47
GeneralAntillesAnybody been paying attention to the FCC?10:47
jaemE))) usually does, and I haven't seen anything there... but neither have I looked for myself10:48
RST38hGeneral: There appears to be one Nokia device in the FCC right now10:49
RST38hjust a footprint image with thelabel10:49
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RST38hlooks more like e75 or an e51 replacement10:49
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RST38hwait, wrong url10:51
jaemhehe... I do that a lot lately, especially because AwesomeWM doesn't handle copy-and-paste as I'm used to10:51
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RST38hOk, here is a list of Nokia devices currently in the FCC:10:53
RST38hRM-89, RM-227, RM-244, RM-294, RA-610:53
RST38hRM-294 is E61i10:54
RST38hOh wait, there is much much more =)10:54
RST38hOk, since E63 US edition, there have been: RM-412, RM-413, both look like candy bars10:58
aquatixRST38h: erm, that shakira article is a year old?10:59
jaemby the way, where do you find the FCC filings, anyways?  I've never actually found that part of the site, for some reason10:59
RST38hNo, RM-413 has been submitted to FCC on Dec 23 200810:59
aquatixRST38h: then someone has been typing 2008 all over that article instead of 200911:00
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RST38hNokia has also requested new bands for E71 and E6611:01
RST38haquatix: I trust FCC database more than I trust random bloggers11:01
* aquatix wonders what the price of an n97 will be11:01
aquatixRST38h: true11:01
jaemaquatix: more than I can afford11:02
jaemmy phone is a pathetic piece of garbage11:02
jaem(not Nokia)11:02
GeneralAntillesThe hardware isn't all that impressive.11:02
RST38hThere are few mine-like devices Nokia has submitted, HF-310 and HF-51011:02
RST38haquatix: Just get a 580011:02
jaemthe vibe motor is pretty much shot, after a year and a half, so I have to purchase a callerID Bluetooth wristband11:02
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aquatixRST38h: nah, i want qwerty11:02
RST38haquatix: it does not have the bling but gets the work done11:02
RST38haquatix: has got on-screen keyboard too11:03
aquatixi have qwerty and touchscreen on my m600i and loving it11:03
RST38hvery similar to n8x011:03
glass5800's new fw is pretty nice11:03
aquatixyeah, but i don't like on-screen ones :/11:03
aquatixno nice feedback11:03
RST38hglass: our 5800 got stolen =(11:03
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RST38hglass: getting new one today11:03
glassRST38h: hehe11:03
glassRST38h: they're cheap too tho11:03
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RST38hglass: Not at local salaries =)11:03
jaemwell, goodnight, everyone11:04
aquatixjaem: nn11:04
aquatixmaybe i'll just stick with my m600i for another year11:04
jaemwith any luck, I'll get my N810 back tomorrow, and I can be back in the proverbial loop11:04
RST38hglass: anyways, additional security training has been given to wife11:04
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aquatixRST38h: heh11:04
RST38hglass: as in "when you see kid, do not drop everything you have been holding in your hands"11:05
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* Stskeeps yawns11:08
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Stskeeps'lo meiz11:42
hahloMeiz_n810: huomenta11:42
Meiz_n810hyvää huomenta hahalo11:43
hahlosecret nokialand language11:43
Meiz_n810hello Sts too11:43
* Meiz_n810 is upgrading Mer11:44
StskeepsMeiz_n810: HAM is back working now, and there's the first step for Fn fix11:44
hahloi should try mer too11:45
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: ok11:46
Meiz_n810imager won't work  hildon-theme-selector: Depends: osso-pick-theme but it is not going to be installed11:50
Meiz_n810Depends: rcrefresh but it is not installable11:50
Meiz_n810 Depends: hildon-control-panel-theme but it is not installable11:50
Stskeepsi'll rebuild it for armel11:52
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Stskeepsalterego: how's the beagle so far?11:54
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alteregoNot really had any time to play with it. Been really busy the past month and now I might be being made redundant. So well .. :/11:55
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Stskeepser, now that was inappropiate..11:55
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alteregoDon't worry about it ;)11:55
Stskeepsread first part of the sentence first and then "busy" :P11:55
* alterego blames Bush Jnr :P11:55
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alteregoAnd all the ass hole bankers/gov'ts that got us into this state of affairs.11:56
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GeneralAntillesHi, alterego. :)11:57
* Stskeeps is having a tad of job change too, but from one part of the centre i'm at, from public (uni) to private part11:57
alteregoHey GeneralAntilles :)11:57
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alteregoWell, they're making 1/3 of the software engineering team redundant and as I'm the newest employee :/11:58
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alteregoOTOH, I have a large skill set that no one else in the department, or even the company as a whole has. So that moves more into my favour.11:58
RST38h(sorry for a repeat =)11:58
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pupnik_anybody know about open-source image recognition?12:00
alteregoSo, I've been looking for another Job regardless, because if things are getting this bad that they've got to make so many people redundant across the board, then I guess I should make like a rat and leave this sinking ship ;)12:00
aquatixpupnik_: ask spammers?12:00
aquatixpupnik_: or didn't you mean ocr12:00
pupnik_more faces12:00
RST38hpupnik: only academic projects12:00
aquatixpupnik_: recognition of faces, or only `this is a face'12:01
pupnik_hi-dev webcam12:01
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pupnik_bought an ebike.  selling a car12:02
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alterego"Hi-Dev" still sounds cool though ;)12:03
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hahloStskeeps: can i flash mer to disk like diablo?12:09
Stskeepsyes, we dont provide a jffs2 image yet, so it installs only on SD12:09
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SaBeris the lidonmm shared library pre-installed on maemo devices? Is there some list of bundled applications and libraries somewhere?12:16
infobotSaBer meant: is the hildonmm shared library pre-installed on maemo devices? Is there some list of bundled applications and libraries somewhere?12:16
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hahloStskeeps: does mer have own kernel?12:36
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GeneralAntillesI like it when they expect you to pay hardcover prices for ebooks that have been in paperback for months.13:00
LinuxCodeI find it cheeky to charge the same for an ebook as the paperback13:01
LinuxCodeimho, if you buy a paper copy, you should get a ebook as well13:02
GeneralAntillesLinuxCode, yes, well, that's at least _mildly_ less ridiculous than charging orders of magnitude more.13:02
t_s_ojust visit the publishers webpage and enter a code printed inside the hardcopy?13:02
GeneralAntillesLet's hope publishers die horribly sometime soon.13:03
* RST38h points it out that a ebook is basically a text file13:03
RST38hNot a very large one too...13:03
GeneralAntillesThe book industry is a messed up place.13:03
t_s_oGeneralAntilles: most middle man indistrues are13:03
LinuxCodesome books have discs in them with the ebook on13:03
LinuxCodewhich i find is a nice touch13:03
LinuxCodet_s_o, what code ?13:04
LinuxCodeno starch does that ?13:04
LinuxCodeand oreilly ?13:04
t_s_oLinuxCode: it was a thought experiment13:04
LinuxCodesadly they dont afaik13:04
t_s_oto bad that current poppler does a bad job when converting pdf to text, the line breaks become hardcoded...13:05
HeManHi! I recently found my N770 and it was having some odd problems when I boot it13:06
GeneralAntillesPDFs are evil13:06
HeManIf it finds a wireless network that it knows of it constantly reboots13:06
t_s_oresulting in some odd paragraphs no matter how i tune fbreader13:06
HeManunless I have the power connected13:06
t_s_ostill, i think there was some patches on its way to "fix" that13:06
HeManshould I try to change battery?13:06
HeManor could it be a hardware problem?13:07
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Stskeepshahlo: no, same as diablo13:13
StskeepsMeiz_n810: should work now.13:14
* RST38h strokes his evil PDF13:18
StskeepsHeMan: i think there's some cx3110x patches13:22
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HeManStskeeps: I've tried both with the original OS image and 2008 HE with the same result13:27
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HeManStskeeps: the original OS was the one that I had it running with before I put it away13:28
Stskeepswhy on earth does python-gnome2-extras provide gtkmozembed13:28
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* Stskeeps ponders idly what this 'testing' repo on repository is aboot.13:42
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lardmanOT, but anyone happen to know how a C++ string is held in memory? Specifically std::string and for MS C++13:44
jeremiahStskeeps: Can you point to a resource? i.e. a URL or dir?13:47
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Stskeepsjeremiah: hmm?13:47
GeneralAntillesUgh, FBReader crashing on start.13:48
Stskeepsjeremiah: if it's about p-g-e and gtkmozembed, i'm just complaining about weird places to put python packages, in ubuntu :)13:48
Stskeepsthen again i have to earn my pay somehow..13:49
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JaffaToday's LWN contains a piece about "Power management in Nokia's next Maemo device" from a talk at FOSDEM14:02
JaffaRelated to what we've already seen14:02
* Stskeeps looks14:02
Stskeepsoh blah, not a subscriber14:02
JaffaI can get a non-subscriber link14:02
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Stskeepsend of feb, hmm :P14:04
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jeremiahStskeeps: Oh, okay. :)14:06
Stskeeps(my job description is maintaining userland and making hw work for pervasive healthcare projects, part Mer, part work-specific distribution :P)14:08
CorsacI was at that talk14:09
Corsacthe first one, by Matthew Garrett14:10
* Stskeeps is still waiting patiently for the maemo on beagleboard slides14:11
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jeremiahStskeeps: Hmm, interesting work.14:22
jeremiahIn England?14:22
Stskeepsjeremiah: .dk14:22
jeremiahah. I am in .se14:22
Stskeepsi'm a masters thesis-writing comp.sci student working parttime for the uni, so :P14:23
jeremiahAre you dansk?14:23
tekojoStskeeps: the Maemo on BeagleBoard slides are here:
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Stskeepstekojo: oh, finally, - ta14:23
tekojoAnd I'll tell Juha to be more noisy about his doings :-)14:24
tekojoStskeeps: No problem14:24
jeremiahStskeeps: 1. Do you blog about Floss-y type things? 2. Would you like to be part of ?14:24
Stskeepsjeremiah: not blogging (yet), but i might start soon, with Mer-related stuff14:24
tekojoCorsac: Juha Kallionen, the guy who runs Maemo on BeagleBoard14:24
jeremiahWorks for me, send the feed when you are up and running.14:25
Corsacha, not Juha Kautto ;p14:25
tekojoCorsac: Juha is probably among the three most common male first names in Finland :-)14:25
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GeneralAntillestekojo, is he blogging?14:27
tekojoGeneralAntilles: He has rights to the Maemo DP blog, I should push him to write more14:29
GeneralAntillestekojo, I was thinking if he were blogging somewhere and it weren't syndicated to Planet. . . .14:30
tekojoGeneralAntilles: Not that I know of. At least he's not blogging about anything Maemo related14:31
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mgedminStskeeps: Mer-ry stuff ;)14:41
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GeneralAntillesmgedmin, I meant to thank you for pointing out that ebook article. It was a good read.14:42
mgedminyes, it was14:43
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rzrtekojo: was that beagleboard filmed ?.14:48
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tekojorzr: filmed?14:53
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rzrtekojo: yes videos ?14:53
rzrlike the debian conferences14:54
tekojorzr: I don't know, I'll ask, but I don't think so14:54
tekojorzr: sorry, no14:54
mgedmina hollywood blockbuster, starring the beagleboard as ...?14:54
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rzrtekojo: too bad :(, about the pdf is it ok to publish the link on ?14:57
aquatixmgedmin: as the powerful interconnect between the geeky hacker, the big banks and his secret crush14:57
tekojorzr: I think so, it's on the Maemo on Beagle garage page, so public.14:58
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tekojorzr: Juha K isn't just too keen on drawing attention to the project just yet, as he feels it is still a bit wobbly :-)14:58
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tekojoTold him it will anyway get better over time :-)14:59
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Jaffatekojo: He should publicise more, otherwise Mer could steal his thunder ;-)15:04
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StskeepsJaffa: mm, i'm worried that maemo-beagle won't be awarded it's proper attention cos of 0.8's beagle port as well. - having an opening from nokia within running maemo outside the traditional tablets should be given a lot more attention :P15:11
LinuxCodeStskeeps, any specific reason why you are so keen on beagle ?15:13
StskeepsLinuxCode: i have two in my office.. do i need more reason?15:13
LinuxCodejust thinking on a small device, where saving power is essential15:14
LinuxCodebeagle is a bit....15:14
Stskeepsyou're thinking beagle sw, i mean beagle hw? :P15:14
LinuxCodeI thought it was a bit odd15:15
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StskeepsJaffa: .. and i guess it's also a consequence of not "just taking" maemo5 pre alphas and trying to get it to boot, and instead reconstructing maemo15:16
Stskeepswhich may be controversial but also a hell lot more fun :P15:16
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Stskeepswb meiz15:33
Meiz_merFn key near?15:34
Stskeepsyou remember the FDI stuff?15:34
Meiz_meron itT?15:35
Stskeepsyeah, but i meant more like the fdi stuff for HAL copied to maemo or something15:36
Stskeepsmaybe the Xmodmaps for Fn will work now15:36
Stskeepshow about theme selector, does it work?15:38
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Meiz_mertheme selector works too15:42
Meiz_merwow, this is a big font15:43
StskeepsMeiz_mer: can you install 'xev' and run it, and see if you get any input when clicking Fn?15:43
Stskeeps(it will show in the console though..)15:43
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wazd_n800hola world)15:44
AStormhi wazd15:45
wazd_n800Just finished Ti84+ skin, looks very  nice)15:47
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Meiz_merdpkg naggs about nanos missing docs :(15:49
Stskeepswe dont use docpurge anymore, afaik15:49
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Meiz_merwhat am i supposed to do with xev?15:52
Meiz_merhow can in see if Fn works?15:53
Stskeepshmm. terminal, xev > logfile15:53
Stskeepsclick fn when xev is up in the window, close xev, send me logfile15:53
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lirican pimlico actually sync with evolution or that is still not available15:54
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Meiz_mer Stskeeps:
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Meiz_merit looks like xev notices the key15:58
Meiz_merafter xev was started i just pressed the Fn and closed it15:58
StskeepsMeiz_mer: yes, it notices it, ta15:59
thopiekarhey..could someone please test some packages on a diablo tablet?16:00
thopiekarI repacked streamripper for armel but I can'T test it because mine is in the repair shop16:00
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thopiekarall dependences are inclueded16:01
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Andrewfblackwhat would I put in my desktop files to keep them from showing up in Hildon, I tried NotShowIn=Hildon; but didn't work16:06
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Andrewfblackwow sts your on a N80116:20
Macerwatching record of lodoss war16:22
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles: ain't you got anything better to do than waiting for me to commit the one mistake I'll always get wrong? :P16:41
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wazd_n800GeneralAntilles, Ti84+ or Ti83+?)16:42
Stskeepscrashanddie: i get confused constantly what is what really16:42
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, no.16:44
crashanddieStskeeps: "Maemo" is the Nokia funded project, which englobes the codebase, etc. "" is the Open Source Community response that formed around that project16:44
GeneralAntilleswazd_n800, what's the question?16:44
crashanddieif I get it right16:44
crashanddie(which I probably don't)16:44
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, no.16:44
GeneralAntillesMaemo is a software platform produced by Maemo Software, a division of Nokia.16:44
wazd_n800GeneralAntilles, hello kitty skin :)16:45
GeneralAntilleswazd_n800, lol, I was kidding.16:45
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Myrttiwhere's hellokitty?16:45
wazd_n800GeneralAntilles, aww(16:45
GeneralAntillesThe TI-84+ is the only skinnable one of the two, though.16:45
GeneralAntilleswazd_n800, still, if you want to do it, don't let me stop you. :P16:45
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, you would've been largely correct 8 months ago.16:46
GeneralAntillesBut not anymore16:46
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: can't really be bothered. People understood what I meant, end of discussion.16:46
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: but I do understand and respect your point.16:46
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, my goal is for it to be less confusing for everybody.16:47
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: how about calling Maemo, and Nokia Nokia?16:47
GeneralAntillesThe only really confusing part is people mixing up the situation pre-reorg and post-reorg16:47
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, because Maemo is a trademark owned by Nokia.16:47
crashanddieas if16:48
crashanddie(they give a dog's bollocks)16:48
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GeneralAntillesFor the same reason you can't create an application today called "Maemo x"16:48
GeneralAntillesYou'd be violating Nokia's trademark.16:48
AStormso how is maemo mapper called now? ;P16:50
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GeneralAntillesAStorm, because it was named before Nokia took up the brand16:50
GeneralAntillesSo it received amnesty.16:50
wazd_n800Other Maemo Weather :)16:51
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AStormrename to Other Monitor of Weather16:56
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: anyway, other than pedantism, nothing to add to the conversation about budgeting? Or do you feel you're not concerned because you won't attend anyway?16:56
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, I don't have anything to add at the moment, no.16:56
GeneralAntillesI'll look over it more closely and put in my thoughts later.16:57
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jaskajust drop the ma part. or call it mämö, or mömmö17:16
RST38hthat read as "or call it mDmG, or mGmmG"17:17
RST38hmGmmg Weather...Cool17:17
RST38hjaska: cp1251. no umlauts.17:18
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jaskalatin9 for me.. iirc17:18
Myrttiinstant rofl17:18
jaskathat was my first thought when i saw maemo years ago :)17:19
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Myrttihehe, unfortunately I heard about it in Openmind together with the story of how they actually invented the name17:19
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jaskaalso the ae turns into an ä in my mind.. or the ma and emo get separated17:20
* RST38h seriously does not understand this discussion though: unless the product with "maemo" in its name is grossly inappropriate, why not allow the author to use the word?17:20
RST38hMaemo Mapper, Maemo Weather, Maemopad - they all contain "maemo" for a reason.17:20
jaskawell, trademarks are just another form of imaginary property17:20
timelessnone of them would if written today17:20
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timelessbut, when was the last time you used Mozilla based browser for Maemo? :)17:21
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RST38hjaska: in this case, the word is used with respect and for appropriate reasons17:21
Myrttithe last time I used my 770?17:21
jaskaerm, wasnt that opera-based17:21
timelessthere was an unofficial release for the 77017:22
timelessso it's possible he grabbed it17:22
Myrttijaska: 2007HE had microb17:22
Myrttiwho grabbed?17:22
jaskaalso sometimes it turns into mamo in my mind.. which means 'a wuss'17:22
roopeafaik Nokia granted those current Maemo mappers etc. the right to continue to use those names.17:22
RST38hroope: Which is the sane thing to do17:23
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roopebut in order to control the name and the copyright, new apps can't just start to use that name.17:23
timelessroope: right, there were grandfather grants17:23
RST38hroope: they are still controlling name and copyright, even if some application heavily relying on maemo has "maemo" in its name17:24
Myrttithe nice thing about microb is that Facebook works with it17:24
Myrttiopera didn't17:24
timelesswhich version of flash do you have?17:24
RST38hroope: For example, I call my app "fMSX-Maemo" - this simply signifies that it is a Maemo port17:24
roopeQgil explained this to me once. it made some sense.17:24
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jaska*shrug* never bothered with facepalmbook17:24
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timelessthe saturday of fosde one of my hostesses tried to use my n800 to visit facebook17:25
timelessshe said it didn't work17:25
timelessit turns out, i had the lame version of flash17:25
timelessso i had to install the 'fix flash version' patch17:25
Myrttithere's no flash in facebook, apart from some stupid apps that use it17:25
Myrttior the movie thing17:25
roopesubstitue 'Maemo' with some other competitor name. i can't do a ... erm. Windows Music client. or whatever.17:25
Myrttiwho cares17:25
timelessmyrtti: i wouldn't know17:25
timelessi don't use facebook17:26
Myrttigood for you17:26
RST38hroope: "Windows" is used left and right17:26
timelessbut people will ditch a device if facebook doesn't work17:26
timelessthat little i know17:26
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timelessroope: they can't use Microsoft or Microsoft Windows17:26
rooperst38H: yes, and they've had problems with the trademark because of that.17:26
roopeyes, that was probably a bad example.17:26
RST38hroope: They had problems because it is a dictionary word17:26
RST38hroope: Intel had the same problems with "586" and ended up with "Pentium"17:27
timelessrst38h: be kind to roope17:27
roopeit's the Hoover problem.17:27
timelessWindows isn't a word in roope's native language17:27
timelessinstead there's Ovi17:27
timelessroope: healthy?17:27
jaskaikkunat/ikkunoita.. well, windows would probably be ikkunasto17:27
jaska(bunch of windows)17:27
jaskaovi is door :)17:28
timelessjaska: Ovi is a dumb name for a product by Nokia17:28
timelessi'm looking for a parallel not a translation17:28
jaskaoh, never seen it17:28
roopeHoover ended up as a word for vacuum cleaners. then again, it's not the worst problem in the world to have.17:28
timelessyou've never seen
timelessKleenex is the better example17:29
timelessmost people don't remember Hoover17:29
jaskageneralized trademark17:29
timelessthe other examples are Xerox and Ketchup17:29
roopeyes, kleenex.17:29
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jaskai didnt know ketchup was one :)17:29
timelessand i certainly never hoover'd17:29
timelessHeinz Ketchup17:29
RST38hroope: for a brand to become a dictionary word is a huge success17:29
timelessrst38h: and yet a failure17:30
RST38hroope: But I do not think Maemo has that much of potential :)17:30
rooperts38h: well yes in a way, but then you can't stop anyone else from marketin their products with that name.17:30
RST38hroope: if your trademark is registered you can17:31
RST38hroope: that is BEFORE it becomes a dictionary word17:31
RST38hroope: See "google"17:31
jaskabluray was named that instead of blueray because of this17:31
timelessIn the United States, the Food and Drug Administration has prohibited the use of the word "ketchup" on product labels unless the product conforms to a set of strict guidelines. All products marketed as ketchup in the United States must be thickened only with tomato solids, and the viscosity of the sauce must be within a very narrow range. The nutrient content of the sauce is also tightly regulated.17:31
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jaskawell, yankees have weird stuff about calling beer "malt liquer"17:32
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infobotjaska meant: well, yankees have weird stuff about calling beer "malt liquor"17:32
timelessaww, colored ketchup is no longer for sale17:33
Stskeepsgreen ketchup or?17:33
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timelessgreen, purple, pink, orange, teal, and blue17:35
Myrttiblue ketchup... *shakes her head*17:35
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* timeless thanks English for gendered pronouns17:36
Stskeepsthey served blue rice for us at the introductionary trip in the beginning of my studies, heh17:36
Stskeepsthat was terrifying17:36
jaskabah, i often end up calling women him/he :)17:36
timelessbluechips rock17:36
jaskaand typically people get referred as it in finnish anyway17:37
timelessyeah, you aren't people17:37
timelessyou're just things17:37
Myrttitimeless: "Furthermore, Finno-Ugric languages lack grammatical gender and thus use one pronoun for both he and she; for example, hän in Finnish, tämä in Votic, tema in Estonian, ő in Hungarian."17:37
derfjaska: That's because there's legal limits on the alcoholic content of "beer" in many states.17:38
Myrtti♥ Finnish language17:38
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Stskeepsi wonder if language reflects mindset too17:38
timelessmyrtti: i've spent a year studying finnish here17:38
Stskeepsas in, in .dk we dont really see17:38
GeneralAntillestimeless, she needs to update to the latest release. . . .17:38
timelessi don't need the lecture17:38
Stskeeps'it' as something with feelings :P17:38
jaskathird person for people often ends up as 'it'17:38
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zeenixtimeless: you do :)17:39
* Myrtti hides17:39
roopehe/she feels a bit sexist, for a Finn.17:39
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Myrttitimeless: sorry, I haven't been following your lifes story17:39
timelessgan: where's that from17:39
timeless <- i'm somewhere there17:40
GeneralAntillestimeless, the flash fix shipped in 36-5 onward17:40
* Stskeeps ponders idly if he will be laughed out of the building if he brings his mertop as only thing for a smallish lan party next weekend as his laptop is in repair shop.17:40
timelessgan: my device17:41
GeneralAntillestimeless, then it's time to upgrade.17:41
timelessgan: hey17:41
timelessfriday before fosdem i upgraded my n810 proto to the last week17:41
timelessit was running a pre shipping os17:42
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jaska36-5 o.O17:43
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timelesswhat was the release before 36-5? :)17:44
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jaskai think mines uuh, 23-14?17:44
timelessjaska: wrong version series17:45
jaskaah :) sorry17:45
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timelessaccording to this there was a 3.2 (4.2007.26-8)17:45
timelessmy device is from there17:45
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* GeneralAntilles is talking 200817:45
timelessoh, well17:45
timelessfine. i'm in a different version series17:46
GeneralAntillesjaska, time to upgrade.17:46
timelessso none of your numbers mean anything to me :)17:46
GeneralAntillesYou're 3 versions behind.17:46
jaskahavent checked.. itll probably end up borking my terminal17:46
GeneralAntilles23-14, 30-2, 36-5, 47-317:46
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timelesswait, which you17:47
timelessi'm at least 4 versions behind :)17:47
jaskame i guess?:)17:47
* timeless guesses so17:47
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timelessjaska: control panel>about product17:47
timelessgan: got time to try another 0.1.2pre?17:47
jaska30-2, 23-14 was just in the hostname (confusing :)17:48
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GeneralAntillesjaska, yeah, hostname fails at updating. :\17:49
johnxon maemo, hostname fails17:49
* johnx returns17:49
timelessyeah yeah17:49
jaskaso it would seem :)17:49
timelesswhich reminds me17:49
GeneralAntillestimeless, probably, but I'm waiting for the Advil to kick in on this headache, so I'm not much use for staring at strings.17:49
jaskaguess i need to go rummage for changelogs17:49
timelessmy Diablo-Mer is missing Bluetooth17:49
johnxtimeless, blueman or gnome bluetooth applet17:50
johnxyour choice17:50
jaskaso i know whatll bork/unbork17:50
timelessjohnx: i was hoping to install the diablo connection manager17:50
timelessi need to test strings17:50
* Myrtti needs a break17:50
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johnxtimeless, you're really a masochist, huh?17:50
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timelessjohnx: i have virtually everything installed17:50
timelessi posted a picture17:50
* johnx shakes his head sadly17:51
timelessis a 'before'17:51
* timeless wonders where after is17:51
Stskeepsjohnx: or just as insane as you and me..17:51
johnxyeah, suppose so :)17:52
johnxclosed source stuff just bugs me though :/17:52
Stskeepslinear algebra bugs me atm17:52
johnxactually my current most hated list is: xfbdev and tslib not playing nice17:53
Stskeepswe got Fn working on n810 btw17:53
Stskeepshad to use Xmodmap though17:53
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jaskahmm, no vte/xterm changes, oughta work then17:54
johnxah, very nice17:54
Stskeepsjaska: hmm, curious, what did you change and why?17:54
johnxI'm getting *nothing* out of tslib right now :/17:54
Stskeepsjohnx: is synaptics uninstalled?17:54
jaskathink i removed the borders (qwerty12s fixes)17:54
Stskeeps.. if it is an xorg server17:55
johnxah, I'm only having problems with tslib in xfbdev17:55
johnxxfbdev is a kdrive server like xomap17:55
qwerty12jaska, jott's fix :). It's the maemo vte svn now17:55
jaskaahh, ook :)17:55
jaskasorry, been a while and the box that runs the sdk has been reinstalled17:56
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johnxhey Omegamoon :)17:56
Omegamoonjohnx: good afternoon17:56
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jaskaoh well, guess i'll have to lose the uptime, been using it as a terminal when im not near a laptop/desktop mostly17:58
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johnxOmegamoon, almost happy with my package. just tracking down an issue with tslib. what version of xfbdev are you using in zubuntu right now?18:00
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jaskaah, better check that i have the keyboard layouts backed up too18:01
jaska112d 1h :)18:01
Omegamoonjohnx: good question, one moment18:01
jaskaotherwise ok.. the keyboard backlight just lags when going on.. and suddenly turns off18:01
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Omegamoonjohnx: xfbdev
johnxsame here18:05
johnxhaving issues with making tslib work in xfbdev18:05
johnxother than that it seems to be ok18:05
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udovdhone simple question18:10
udovdhhow can I enable root without reflashing with no wifi  or bt present?18:10
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qwerty12Can you transfer files by usb or wifi?18:11
infobotqwerty12 meant: Can you transfer files by usb or sd?18:11
udovdhno wifi18:11
udovdhusb networking is waht I want to enable18:11
udovdhbut I need to be root for that?18:11
qwerty12I'm talking about file transfer18:11
udovdhwhat do i need for file transfer18:11
qwerty12A usb cable and a sd card.18:12
udovdhflashing worked OK via USB18:12
udovdhno miniSD card here18:12
udovdhjust normal SD :-(18:12
johnxah, an n810?18:12
johnxthen you're set :)18:12
qwerty12Is this N810?18:12
udovdhn810 yes18:12
udovdhwhen I have usb networkign as on my H2210 ipaq18:12
udovdhI cna do ssh etc18:12
udovdhand work from there18:12
johnxattach your n810 to your PC with the usb cable18:13
johnxand drop this file onto it:
qwerty12Transfer to your N810 and install from the application manager18:13
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udovdhwill try that18:14
johnxafter that's installed just type 'root' or 'sudo gainroot' in a terminal for root access18:14
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udovdhok file transferred18:15
qwerty12so use the application manager to install18:16
udovdhhmm must point it to the file...18:16
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tank-manif you can ssh in, just modify the gainroot script to not check for r&d mode18:17
tank-manthen just use sudo gainroot18:17
qwerty12That's basically what rootsh does...18:17
udovdhfound the menu18:18
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Jaffajeremiah: thanks for picking up that maemo-dev email, I'd hoped you would :)18:24
jeremiahSure thing Jaffa!18:24
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jeremiahSeems like a perfect opportunity to jump in. :)18:25
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udovdhok installed usb otg plugin18:27
udovdhset usb for ethernet18:28
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* Stskeeps wonders why he didn't just take a half year of philosophy or something instead of this crap linear algebra..18:28
* qwerty12 isn't planning on doing maths in college :)18:29
johnxudovdh, sounds right to me18:29
johnxbut I don't use usb networking18:29
rm_youjohnx: you get a chance to verify ABL-SVN on Mer?18:29
udovdhthe device becomes unresponsive when I do that18:30
johnxrm_you, uhm...I totally forgot :)18:30
udovdhtaps generate clicks but no action18:30
rm_youjohnx: ^_^18:30
udovdhI have g_etehr networkign working with my pda18:30
udovdh(h2210 ipaq)18:30
qwerty12Use the other option, that's if you have a usb to ethernet adapter connected to the N8x018:30
Stskeepsqwerty12: if you want to do anything in CS you ought to ..18:31
udovdhnone present here18:31
Stskeepsi hate it but sometimes it is useful18:31
rm_youjohnx: any time :)18:31
qwerty12Stskeeps, I know but after seeing that, I'm still not tempted. I'm just not a maths person, I find english & history more fun :)18:31
rm_youhey, do Mer downloads count towards download count? :P or do you use separate repos?18:32
Stskeepsseperate repo18:32
Stskeepsthere is a branch for a-b in launchpad i think18:32
rm_youah, update it to SVN and it should work in Mer18:32
Stskeepswell it works already in mer, but had to patch some mini stuff..18:32
rm_youit was your patches that fixed that anyway, i think18:32
rm_youthey are in SVN now18:33
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rm_youjust had timeless filing a bug about it though, which makes me wonder if they didn't make it in there, or if he compiled his own wacky version18:33
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rm_youback in 15 min18:33
Stskeepshas the patches the mer version has18:34
johnxaaah...always possible he ended up with the diablo version18:34
johnxthat would make a lot of sense18:34
rm_youyeah well, should be pushed to extras soon anyway18:35
rm_younot that the fix matters for Maemo >_>18:35
rm_youbut that should keep it in sync18:35
rm_youfeel free to send patches upstream :P18:36
johnxdid you mer sdk install finish, rm_you?18:36
rm_youyeah, in like 5 minutes18:36
rm_youused it to build and upload the svn version18:36
rm_yougotta shower tho, back in 1518:36
johnxgood deal :)18:36
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udovdhwith the usb-otg plugin18:42
udovdhdo I still need to insert g_ether manually?18:42
udovdhor what is the requried procedure to make it work?18:42
johnxI don't think you need to18:43
johnxare you reading the article on the wiki to setup usb networking?18:43
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udovdhit says no otehr config18:44
johnxand your connecting to a windows desktop or a linux desktop?18:44
udovdhbut it makes the device go unresponsive except clicks when tapped18:44
udovdhand that works ok iwth my ipaq18:44
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johnxyou click 'usb network device' right?18:45
udovdhno ethernet18:45
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johnxclicking usb ethernet crashes hildon-desktop here18:46
udovdhthen i connect usb18:47
udovdhand then ifup usb0 says no such device18:47
qwerty12The ethernet option is for a usb to ethernet adapter18:47
johnxif I were you I'd try it manually once18:47
udovdhqwerty12, thanks18:47
udovdhtaht helps with the 'hangs'18:47
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Stskeepslo sjgadsby18:59
Stskeepsdid you ever have any luck with parallels and mer?18:59
sjgadsbyI haven't really kept at it. The conversion tool never gave me a raw file.19:00
Stskeepsalright, lemme see if i still have the raw file in store19:00
sjgadsbyI haven't put much time in it though.19:00
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Stskeepswhat formats does parallels take?19:01
sjgadsbyOh, don't go to any trouble on my account, please. I just thought I'd take a look at how Mer is coming along.19:01
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Stskeepshehe, it is fine.. i need some mental distraction from this linear algebra excersise19:02
sjgadsbyHrm. I think it has its own format, but I found a web page with instructions on how to convert a VMware image to raw and get it working. I just thought I'd give it a try.19:02
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sjgadsbyHrm. Have to run. I'll be back later.19:04
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Stskeepslo VDVsx19:08
VDVsxStskeeps, yo :)19:08
rm_youjohnx: status?19:10
johnxrm_you, won't build wants omapfb.h19:10
johnxwhat package is that in?19:10
udovdhI do select usb networking in the usb-otg plugin19:10
udovdhI then connect the n81019:10
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udovdhbut it is seen as storage on the linux host19:10
johnxudovdh, did g_ether load?19:11
udovdhdont think so19:11
udovdhmoduels.dep is not ok19:11
udovdhmodules.dep is not ok19:11
rm_youlibosso-dev (>= 1), hildon-desktop-dev, hildon-control-panel-dev, x11proto-randr-dev, libxrandr-dev19:11
rm_youone of those?19:11
rm_youprolly? >_>19:11
udovdhonly manual intervention helps there19:11
johnxrm_you, nope :)19:11
qwerty12johnx, kernel-diablo-headers or linux-kernel-headers in diablo19:11
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VDVsxanyone have ideas for GSoC projects ??? :)19:11
johnxinstalled kernel-diablo-headers but missed linux-kernel-headers19:12
udovdhcannot parse modules.dep it says19:12
rm_youwell gotta run, need to get somewhere high up and take a few pictures19:12
udovdhwhen I try modprobe19:12
rm_youfor my photography class <_<19:12
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rm_youonly problem is, there aren't any tall buildings in this freaking city19:13
johnxudovdh, correct. use insmod19:13
* rm_you runs19:13
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udovdhonly now it sees the n81019:15
udovdhhow to automate?19:15
udovdhthere is no depmod19:15
StskeepsVDVsx: we can probably make up some for Mer but im not sure about Maemo :P19:16
udovdhqwerty12, thanks19:17
VDVsxmer is a project inside maemo, I think19:17
udovdhfirst manual config19:17
udovdhbecause no ipv4 assigned19:17
udovdhno pign working yet19:17
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udovdhwe have ping19:18
VDVsxStskeeps, in 2007 one of the projects are related to the CMS (midgrade??) that maemo use for eg.19:18
udovdhneed to do manual insmod19:18
StskeepsVDVsx: midgard19:18
udovdhneed to fix depmod19:18
Stskeepsor somethng19:18
udovdhno ifconfig automagic on n81019:18
udovdhworks better on the H2210 ipaq here...19:19
udovdhone modprobe is enough there19:19
udovdhbut Ok, we can improve19:19
udovdhqwerty12, the depmod is ok for my os2008?19:19
johnxudovdh, if you find a way to improve things it would be nice if you edited the wiki19:19
johnxlooks like it's somewhat out-of-date...19:20
udovdhno standard ssh on the device?19:20
udovdhok I can manage from here19:20
r2d2rogersStskeeps: running another image... started about an hour ago...19:20
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udovdhresolver is same  as on my desktop?19:23
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johnxwell do you want to use the same DNS server or a different one?19:23
udovdhor rather: where do i set my dns?19:23
Stskeepsprobably resolv.conf19:24
udovdhmy own dns please19:24
johnxStskeeps, not for maemo...19:24
Stskeepssjgadsby: raw image generation works for me, sure you did it on the unpacked vmdk and not the zip?19:24
udovdhStskeeps, resolv.conf found and changed...19:26
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udovdhresolver works19:27
udovdhbut not in web browser19:27
udovdhany ideas?19:27
johnxdid you already make the DUMMY connection?19:28
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udovdhah... probably not...19:31
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udovdhbut still, that is strange19:33
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udovdhkernel knows about g_ether19:33
udovdhkernel even works with g_ether19:33
udovdhshell has working ip available19:33
udovdhbut the browser insists on popping up that list of wifi access points etc19:33
udovdhwho designed that?19:34
udovdhthey lack a certain perspective I guess19:34
udovdhbut I will type that dummy thing again19:34
johnxyeah, it's a very consumer oriented device19:34
johnxbasically the browser relies on information from the connection manager19:34
johnxand the connection manager doesn't know about your other connection until you make it a "DUMMY" connection19:35
udovdhthe gconf line doesn't give me a new dummy connection19:38
udovdhbut runs silently (ok)19:38
qwerty12apt-get install libicd-network-dummy19:39
johnxdid you read the note about the bug?19:39
udovdhme? no?19:40
udovdhI find the DEFAULT connection19:40
udovdhwhen I dig deeper in the menus19:40
udovdhbut it dosn't appear in the list with the wifi points19:40
udovdhthat is a bug?19:40
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udovdhok will try the apt-get19:40
Woolly-workany PyGTK geniuses in here19:41
udovdhE: couldn't find package libicd-network-dummy19:42
udovdhit is supposed to fetch that over the network, right?19:42
qwerty12Is this diablo?19:42
udovdhlates os200819:42
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udovdhdiablo, yes19:43
johnxdid you enable the 'extras' repository?19:43
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johnxor it even in extras19:43
johnxone sec19:43
udovdhqwerty12, thanks19:43
johnxah, nevermind. just listen to qwerty12 :)19:43
udovdhbut then I need to disconnect my network19:44
udovdhto make dragging it onto the n810 storage work again...19:44
jeremiahOoops! What a n00b19:44
jeremiah :)19:45
udovdhI am on n810 yes19:45
udovdhbut not so on linux in general19:45
johnxudovdh, I don't think he was talking about you :)19:45
jeremiahudovdh: I was talking about myself, not you!19:45
jeremiah^^ I did a `ls` in the chat window =)19:45
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udovdhok, no problem19:46
jeremiahergo /me is n00b19:46
udovdhit happens19:46
qwerty12/exec ls :P19:46
udovdhsystem ("ls");19:46
jeremiah^^ perl!19:46
jeremiahmakes me happy19:46
qwerty12It's C iirc19:46
qwerty12or could be same in perl, dunno :)19:47
jeremiahI think they both have the same semantics.19:47
thopiekarcould someone tell me where the "Public SSH keys" section of my garage account maintenance page is?19:47
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thopiekar* please :|19:49
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JaffaANNOUNCE: For those of you who haven't seen - jeremiah is our new debmaster19:49
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crashanddieCongrats jeremiah19:50
qwerty12Haha, congrats jeremiah :)19:50
jeremiahThank you. :)19:50
* johnx claps19:50
jeremiahI can see I made an impression with my newbie typing skills. :P19:50
jeremiahOh well, now everyone knows. :)19:51
crashanddiejeremiah: though remember, no days off, we don't accept doctor's notes, and you can't go paternity breaks. In other words, welcome to eternity.19:51
jeremiahcrashanddie: Heh, I live in Sweden, we get all of that stuff by law!19:51
infobotcrashanddie meant: jeremiah: though remember, no days off, we don't accept doctor's notes, and you can't on paternity breaks. In other words, welcome to eternity.19:51
crashanddiejeremiah: not here you don't :P19:51
qwerty12jeremiah, so, you're maemo's human equivalent of lintian? :)19:51
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crashanddiejeremiah: whereabout in Sweden?19:52
jeremiahqwerty12: heh, nothing can replace lintian :)19:52
jeremiahcrashanddie: Gothenburg, (West coast)19:52
qwerty12hehe, I've never used it, I'm sure I've put out dodgy packages :)19:52
jeremiahqwerty12: But I know the maintainer, Russ Alberry.19:52
jeremiahqwerty12: They need people on the policy mailing list if you want to help out . . .19:53
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jeremiah[lintian is a policy enforcement tool]19:53
crashanddieI know where Goteburg is :)19:53
jeremiahcrashanddie: You're in .nl?19:53
crashanddieI am not.19:53
jeremiahah. :)19:54
jeremiahWhere are you?19:54
crashanddieLondon, ex-french, ex-belgian.19:54
jeremiahVive la Roast Beef!19:54
crashanddiejeremiah: qwerty12's a brit, lcuk is a brit... well, scrap that, he's from the north, somewhere anyway19:55
qwerty12crashanddie, I'm from the north too, just living in london :P19:55
jeremiahI'll feel right at home then - I am American. Two countrys separated by a common language. :)19:56
crashanddiejeremiah: the country is a bit messed up, especially in times of war. First we'll bomb you, then we'll send you food. That's because the UK is schyzophrenic. In other words, no jokes about roast beef. Don't mess with a nation that needs medication.19:56
thopiekarjeremiad: first job from me to you... I've repacked some packages from ubuntu (x86) to maemo(armel).. It would be very kind from you to check whether the deb's are well for uploadin to extras... here is a archive with all packages...
infobotjeremiah meant: I'll feel right at home then - I am American. Two countries separated by a common language. :)19:56
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jeremiahthopiekar: Okay, no point waiting around right?19:57
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jeremiahI don't really start until Monday, so I can't do any _real_ work.19:57
jeremiahBut I am happy to look at them.19:57
jeremiahthopiekar: You pulled them from the Ubuntu repos and not the debian repos?19:57
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thopiekaryes from the ubuntu repos because it is for me the easiest way, while using ubuntu... :) (apt-get source xy )19:58
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jeremiahthopiekar: Have you built on the packages on the armel platform?19:59
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thopiekaryes I have with scratchbox1 with maemo.4.1...19:59
udovdhI am an apt-get newbie, use rpm normally19:59
udovdhhow do i make it install a local file?19:59
udovdhon the ipaq I can `ipkg install blabla`20:00
Woolly-workdpkg -i20:00
thopiekardpkg -i20:00
crashanddieudovdh: dpkg -i, but that will break your system in the long run20:00
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jeremiahYes, apt-get is better than dpkg.20:00
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jeremiahAnd aptitude is better than apt-get, but I understand it is not on the maemo platform.20:01
Stskeepsjeremiah: congrats btw, guessed it a bit before the announcement :P20:01
jeremiahStskeeps: Thank you!20:01
jeremiahMy job is really to work for all of you, getting your software into Maemo.20:02
Stskeepsjeremiah: you would probably throw a raging fit over some of the not so kosher stuff in mer definately, if you ever looked :>20:02
jeremiahI think it is an amazing platform and am thrilled it runs debian.20:02
ana`jeremiah: apt-get is a frotend to dpkg, it uses dpkg20:02
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crashanddiejeremiah: oh, well in that case, I have a few programs that won't compile, what's your email address, you fix'em and upload them, cheers20:02
ana`(As well aptitude)20:03
jeremiahana`: True, but it does some more sane things under the hood. :)20:03
Macerugh.. if i didn't need this damn windows install to use this esx infrastructure client i would put linux on my shuttle20:03
jeremiahThere are different tools, dpkg is sort of a layer between dselect and apt.20:03
thopiekarjeremiah: so how much time does it take checking my packages.. I've made already a request on
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crashanddieana`: true, but don't forget apt-get actually has files of its own. IIRC, it actually has a list of installed packages? So if you dpkg -i, it won't get upgraded or something.20:03
crashanddieana`: when you use apt-get upgrade20:03
Maceri really want a linux box.. i think i am going to have to get one of these artigo boxes just for that purpose20:03
qwerty12crashanddie, dpkg keeps the list20:03
jeremiahthopiekar: Well, as I said, I am not currently under contract so I cannot perform any actual "work", but I am happy to look at your packages.20:04
ana`crashanddie: no, that's aptitude :)20:04
crashanddieI know there's something funky going on somewhere, can't remember at what bit20:04
thopiekarjeremiah: ok thanks20:04
jeremiahActually, both aptitude and apt-get do different things than dpkg.20:05
jeremiahI will dip into my book "The Debian System" by Martin Krafft . . .20:05
jeremiahget some juicy quotes. :)20:05
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Stskeepscan you explain why on earth Provides: doesn't have versions while you're looking? ;)20:05
crashanddieI'm starting to be afraid... "dipping", "juices"... What kind of books does this Martin Krafft write?20:06
jeremiahStskeeps: Hmm, sounds interesting, will have to check that out.20:06
qwerty12The sort of books, which you crashanddie, seem to enjoy reading :P20:06
jeremiahcrashanddie: He is part of the "German cabal" if that makes any difference. :)20:06
Stskeepsmeaning you cannot do Provides: libgtk2.0-0 and then another package doing Depends: libgtk2.0-0 (>= somever) :P20:07
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Stskeepsbloody irritating.. you have to resort to transitional packages20:07
crashanddieqwerty12: if you don't enjoy reading those kind of books, I'm really starting to be worried here20:07
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wndiirc the list of installed (and uninstalled) packages is at /var/lib/dpkg/status. .../info/ contains {pre,post}{inst,rm}-scripts and list of installed files for each package.20:07
qwerty12crashanddie, haha20:07
crashanddieanyway, time to refuel the cancer in my lungs, ttyiab20:08
jeremiahapt is better because it does "automatice dependency resolution"20:09
jeremiahwhich is quite handy.20:09
jeremiahSo if I am installing a python egg that uses gzip20:09
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jeremiahapt will install the dependencies too, like gzip, etc.20:10
jeremiahThis means you avoid "dependency hell" which was a lot of fun back in the day20:10
jeremiahwith linux.20:10
* qwerty12 usually cheats with dpkg -i <deb> ; apt-get -f install :)20:10
jeremiahapt-get -f install will do it for you everytime! :)20:11
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udovdhI have the libicd20:14
udovdhI did the gconf stuff from
jeremiahwnd: Yes, the Packages file is what apt looks at, but it downloads it when you call apt-get update20:14
udovdhbut the connections listing that pops up doesn't show the dummy network20:14
hahlois deb better package than rpm?20:14
udovdhbut the dummy network is visible deeper in the menus though20:14
Stskeepshahlo: oh boy.. that could start a huge flamewar :>20:14
jeremiahhahlo: Hard to say. But I am biased so I will say yes. :)20:14
jeremiahhahlo: rpm (rpm package manager) did not have dependency checking.20:15
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udovdhyum is your friend20:15
jeremiahhahlo: Once apt-get started to do that, the rpm folks thought we need that too.20:15
udovdhbut I am not here for that20:15
jeremiahSo they created yum (thanks udovdh)20:15
jeremiahyum checks dependencies like apt-get and aptitude20:15
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jeremiahYou can translate between the two formats with a tool called alien20:16
jeremiahAnd there is work towards a "universal" package format20:16
jeremiahBut a universal format is a bit of a ways away.20:16
qwerty12deb ftw, but I do hate CDBS with a vengeance :)20:16
jeremiahI agree, CDBS is ugly.20:17
jeremiahI never use it.20:17
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* thopiekar is now needing some one, who is familar with gettext... he tried pygettext2.5 on ubuntu to make a pot file but it doesn't work...20:17
qwerty12jeremiah, yep :). When grabbing debian packages from upstream, I've actually ran dh_make and remade the rules file in the "standard" format because I really couldn't get to grips with CDBS :)20:18
qwerty12timeless, cool :)20:18
udovdhanybody knows why the connection manager still doesn't show my dummy connection?20:18
thopiekars/some one/someone20:18
udovdhI did install the libicd20:18
jeremiahqwerty12: I think that is much better format frankly. :)20:18
udovdhand the gconftool lines from
qwerty12timeless, 0 users, eh? :)20:18
timelessbe the first ;-)20:18
qwerty12jeremiah, agreed :D20:18
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jeremiahqwerty12: Did you set up the repo's and do some debianizing?20:21
jeremiahqwerty12: Someone named CIro is giving you some kudos on the community's news page.20:21
qwerty12jeremiah, I've never set up a repo, but I do debianize stuff :)20:21
qwerty12ah, yep, I packaged his clock :)20:21
Stskeepsqwerty12's the local wiz kid, he has ported a hell lot of stuff :P20:22
jeremiahqwerty12: Awesome. Great to have you around!20:22
qwerty12Thanks :)20:22
StskeepsVDVsx: btw, it is definate now that it would be good to have some kind of general purpose event handler daemon.. for instance, on the n810, turning on keyboard backlight when keyboard slides out, etc20:22
jeremiahMight have to pick your brain! :)20:22
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VDVsxStskeeps, for mer ?20:23
StskeepsVDVsx: yeah20:23
Stskeepsjeremiah: so what will your job description be, assisting the community with repository-packaging-etc questions?20:23
StskeepsVDVsx: i am just really wondering how it could be done sanely :P20:24
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jeremiahStskeeps: Yes, I think that is pretty close to it.20:25
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VDVsxStskeeps, the nokia stuff is all closed ?20:25
jeremiahI would like to look at some automated package building and testing as well.20:25
jeremiahWe'll see how it goes.20:25
StskeepsVDVsx: well ke-recv isn't but it is very tablet specific20:25
qwerty12jeremiah, does a version of 1:1.34 take priority over 1.40-2maemo3-1.34dgfix2? :)20:25
jeremiahBut I am going to ty to make myself available to people who want to get their software on the the platform.20:26
StskeepsVDVsx: but regarding language.. did you happen to ever see stuff like mIRCscript?20:26
jeremiahqwerty12: Why don't you ask me the easy questions first? :P20:26
Stskeepsit has stuff like on EVENT:parameters etc20:26
VDVsxStskeeps, nop20:26
johnxRST38h, is that "in the wild" as they say?20:27
RST38hjohnx: Nokia design labs20:27
qwerty12jeremiah, hehe :D20:27
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RST38hjohnx: I guess they would have to say "in the lair"20:27
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johnxRST38h, ok, then what exactly am I looking at? :P20:28
RST38hjohnx: two new handsets, apparently running s60e5 but you never know20:28
johnxerrr...that's just two shots of the n97, right?20:28
RST38hit is not an n9720:29
StskeepsRST38h: the bottom of the handset reminds me a bit of 770..20:29
RST38hboth look different20:29
johnxah,...reading the article20:29
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johnxouch. that interface isn't exactly looking too smooth...20:30
RST38hS60 seldom looks smooth20:31
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johnxI'll take solid and predictable over flashy and random-looking20:31
jeremiahRST38h: Do you think it is running Maemo?20:31
Stskeepsis that a stylus on the side20:32
Stskeepson the left pic20:32
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RST38hjeremiah: I would say chances are low20:32
RST38hit is an n-series lab20:32
StskeepsRST38h: well there has been a large amount of n-series alignment lately in the source trees20:33
Stskeepsthey even talk to pc suite now20:33
Stskeepsjohnx: you remember my weirdhildon screenshot?20:34
johnxsetting your panel to be on the top, right?20:35
Stskeepsyes, and one on bottom20:35
Stskeepswhich was latent in h-d20:35
johnxbarely latent20:36
Stskeepslatent .. as in, just laying there20:36
johnxthere is (was?) a trick you could do if you enabled rotation support20:36
johnxyou could just drag the left panel to the ... bottom I think?20:36
Stskeepswhat strikes me about the left pic is that the interface doesnt look like a n97 does, with the two menu buttons in the bottom20:36
Stskeepsthis has a search bar instead20:36
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johnxaaaah :) I see what you mean20:37
RST38hSts: What kind of alignment?20:37
Stskeepsit looks like its meant to be used as an tablet20:38
johnxI'd have to watch that video of the n97 interface again though20:38
StskeepsRST38h: as in, tethering through PC suite, synchronization, etc20:38
Stskeepsit would pass for a N-series device in my mind20:38
johnxthose widgets are definitely the 'n97' widgets though...20:38
Stskeepsjohnx: they wanted to align the UI looks though20:39
Stskeepswhich makes sense20:39
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johnxand if they made cross-platform html based widgets I wouldn't be too surprised20:39
udovdhanother q:20:40
johnxactually...a search bar that takes over the bottom statusbar sometimes reminds me of a wazd mockup20:40
udovdhis it normal for the module autoloading not to work on os2008?20:40
Stskeepsis that a RSS reader on the right?20:40
Stskeepsudovdh: yes20:40
RST38hSts: Oh, the pc suite cra has been going for a while20:40
udovdhe.g. the different location under /mnt/initfs20:40
udovdhand not /lib/modules20:40
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udovdhif so: what is the way to fix it20:40
udovdhbesides generating a fresh modules.dep20:40
johnxchroot /mnt/initfs /bin/sh20:40
RST38hSts: but I think it is pc suite guys' initiative20:41
udovdhjohnx, I wnat easy autloading of modules20:41
udovdhnot an extra commandline I have to type20:41
johnxthen you can run modprove once you chroot20:41
udovdhthanks for the tip20:41
johnxor you can generate a fresh modules.dep like you said20:41
udovdhbut how do I make that permanent?20:41
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udovdhI did that with depmod -b /mnt/initfs20:41
udovdhbut modprobe looks in /lib/modules20:41
johnxthen I would say make a symlink20:42
qwerty12_N800i ln -s the initfs modules to my /lib/modules/`uname -r`20:42
udovdhok was wondering about that20:43
udovdhbut will do that now20:43
johnxStskeeps, that clock at the top left looks a lot like an unmodified h-d desktop clock applet :)20:43
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johnxand I'm about 80% sure I can see the folding stand20:44
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johnxRST38h, very good catch :)20:45
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Stskeepsjohnx: its either a stylus or a folding stand, yes20:46
Stskeepsi think we might just be lookin at a tablet20:46
Stskeepsbut uhm, where is the keyboard? :P20:46
johnxI'm thinking the screen slides up...maybe?20:47
johnxthat would make it awfully thin though...20:47
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RST38hthe status screen at the screenshot is definitely S6020:47
RST38hyou can see it by the clock20:47
qwerty12_N800It's advertising asphalt 3 - a s60 game20:48
qwerty12_N800& java I guess20:48
udovdhok, nodprobe works20:48
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: damnit :P20:48
udovdhnow that nice `connections manager` issue..20:48
RST38hCiting privacy concerns, the Cambridge, Mass. City Council has voted 9-0 to remove security cameras scattered throughout the city. 'Because of the slow erosion of our civil liberties since 9/11, it is important to raise questions regarding these cameras,' said Marjorie Decker, a Cambridge city councilor.20:49
RST38h"WCBVTV is running the story under the headline 'City's Move To Nix Security Cams May Cost Thousands.'"20:49
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udovdhin connectivity settings -> connections I DO see my dummy network20:50
r2d2rogersStskeeps: I do still get the diablo kernel modules installed20:50
* RST38h is kinda tired to do the "hehe" act at all these news20:50
udovdhbut when I start the broswer the dummy network is not shown20:50
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: damnit, ok20:51
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: and kernel-diablo-modules is not in your foundations/mer20:51
johnxactually I'd be pretty cranky if they gave us USB port on the bottom of the device...ick. and qwerty12_N800, I'm still really impressed you matched 30 pixels to a game advertisement...20:51
Stskeepsjohnx: they did that with 770 though?20:53
RST38hjohnx: I would prefer *all* ports opening up at one of the ends20:53
Stskeepsyeah, like n800 does it20:53
RST38hIn a cluster, so that I can hang the device by its wires =)20:53
johnxStskeeps, they did and it looked like a huge PITA20:54
johnxRST38h, not recommended with Nokia's wimpy charging port20:54
RST38hThe problem is that these busybodies will get "creative" again and scatter ports all over the place20:54
johnxnow something beefy like the zaurus or psp charging port...20:54
RST38hjohnx: Nokia fixed the wimpiness starting with 580020:54
Stskeepsjohnx: then again, docking station..20:54
RST38hjohnx: I first thought I have got a wrong power adapter but no, it was the fix20:54
johnxRST38h, mini-usb? micro-usb?20:54
RST38hjohnx: Same thin jack but with a thick plastic collar at the base20:55
johnxStskeeps, i dunno...that kind ruins the tablet 'stand-alone' nature20:55
Stskeepsjohnx: true20:55
johnxbeing able to set it on a table and play music is nice20:55
RST38hjohnx: the collar plugs into the device with some tension and holds the jack there20:55
qwerty12_N800johnx:  I played that game a *lot* :)20:55
r2d2rogersStskeeps: correct, no diablo in foundations/mer20:55
Stskeepsjohnx: someone should really design a docking station.. i mean, with kickstand out and sliding it in from the side..20:55
Stskeepsgiven a bit of plastic and a cable..20:56
johnxStskeeps, what would you use it for?20:56
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RST38h~lart latest sb2 for inserting user-input scripts into Ubuntu startup20:56
* infobot takes a big bite out of latest sb2's jugular vein for inserting user-input scripts into Ubuntu startup20:56
Stskeepsjohnx: plug in to touchscreen at home? dunno :P20:56
StskeepsRST38h: sb2 went insane?20:56
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StskeepsRST38h: i thought sb2 was supposed -not- to fuck around with the sys20:57
johnxRST38h, I have to admit I think the apple magnetic macbook charger is nicest of all (when it's not catching on fire)20:57
RST38hSts: A little bit - now every time I boot Linux, it asks whether I want to modify mmap settings20:57
StskeepsRST38h: ..20:57
StskeepsRST38h: remind me not to install sb220:57
RST38hSts: the script is in /etc/rc*20:57
RST38hSts: it is easily fixable but reminds me of Intel20:57
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johnxgah...really wish Nokia would stop putting things into init scripts that don't belong...20:57
Stskeepsjohnx: at least it seems like fremantle is saning up a bit20:58
Stskeepshildon theme stuff in hildon-theme-config, and /etc/hildon stuff20:58
johnxon the one hand it would have been neat to see something like mer a long time ago...on the other hand maybe someone tried it and already went quietly insane20:59
johnxyou're right that this stuff *has* become much more linux-like20:59
RST38hSts: Also, it now requires qemu to compile stuff20:59
StskeepsRST38h: huh, no cross compiler?20:59
RST38hSts: I *think* I have told it to use host tools but it does not like that21:00
RST38hSts: Now, mostly dpkg and other assorted crap21:00
Stskeepsi have a small blog post in waiting which has topics on why some things in mer are as they are.. along with the argument for 'Scratchbox is an accelerator, not what determines the target platform'21:01
RST38hOn the bright side, TI83 is now operational21:01
johnxincludes 83+ right?21:02
StskeepsRST38h: couldnt you have done this a year ago when i could have spared 900 bloody danish kronor..21:02
johnxI can finally finish my abandoned 'the matrix' screensaver written in tibasic! woo!21:02
johnxStskeeps, heh...and it would have been nice if you got the itch to work on debuntu-for-tablets *last* january :P21:03
Stskeepseven though i would have a hard time convincing exam people my tablet is not 1) a phone 2) a communicating device21:03
Stskeepsjohnx: hehe.. i had L4 microkernel itch before that21:03
RST38hjohnx: Still no 83+21:04
johnxStskeeps, I would have helped if you'd convinced me :)21:04
RST38hSts: You would rob TI of $50?21:04
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RST38hSts: This is cruel.21:04
StskeepsRST38h: i actually do have a ti83 already but the screen is dead21:04
Stskeepsso now i have a ti83 and a ti84 plus.21:05
johnxRST38h, nope. his extremely advanced omap2 calculator is just missing some firmware :>21:05
RST38hjohnx: Or, rather, TI83+ code is in but it hangs21:05
Stskeepsso i can use your emulators with good conscience :P21:05
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RST38hTI84+ should be a no brainer as soon as TI83+ works21:05
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Shadow_Mis there a way to have vncviewer use socks proxy21:06
johnxRST38h, so I assume they run at 100% native speed no problem?21:06
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RST38hjohnx: they can run faster21:07
RST38hjohnx: these calcs are all based on 6MHz Z80 with a really simple display21:07
johnxyeah, but I tend to assume that emulating something has to be more complicated than I think it is :)21:07
RST38hlater models overclocked it to 15Mhz but I have not got to these yet21:07
RST38hthese are really simple machines21:08
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udovdhis it normal to set a unix password for the user?21:10
udovdhon the n810?21:10
udovdhor will that break something?21:10
johnxi have one set. nothing b0rken here :)21:11
Shadow_Mjohnx, do you know how to make vnc viewer to use a proxy21:11
udovdhjohnx, thanks21:12
johnxShadow_M, I have not used vnc viewer or a proxy server on any device in the last year or so :)21:12
Shadow_Mlol ah well then21:12
johnxand by device I mean any general purpose computer I use :)21:13
r2d2rogerswhat's the depmods comment? (confident I'm messing something up there)21:13
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: hmm?21:13
r2d2rogersI just linked in some kernel modules to test21:13
Stskeepsdepmod -a kernelversion21:13
r2d2rogershow do I make it aware they... thanks <G>21:13
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r2d2rogersStskeeps: I was going to try the last module you sent me for 770, have you had a chance to try anything new there?21:18
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Stskeepsno sorry, my week has been hindered heavily by my laptop having to get sent in for repairs21:19
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Stskeepsi am currently chatting to you live from my craptacular mertop. (, so :P21:19
Shadow_Manyone vncviewer with proxy21:19
r2d2rogerserr fun...21:20
r2d2rogersthe last time I tried to look at the pic I got a 404, worked this time21:20
Stskeepsone thing you can say.. hildon interface is gentle on the eyes21:20
AStormhmm, some fun new spam21:21
AStorm"NOKIA ALERT" :P21:21
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RST38hTI83+ said "Defragmenting..."21:23
Stskeepsdear god21:23
RST38his it bad?21:23
timelessyou never want to show that21:24
johnxStskeeps, soooo...why don't you just install ubuntu on that laptop?21:26
Stskeepsjohnx: mostly one, eating my own dogfood and two, the cds do not boot on the processors cos of missing CMOV.. i think21:26
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Stskeepsvia c321:27
Stskeepsit misses superpages and cmov instruction21:27
Stskeepsso you need linux-38621:27
johnx(that's 'huh' to the latter, not the former of course)21:27
Stskeepsthere is an ubuntu bug for it21:27
johnxaaah...well, that sounds like a very special device21:27
Stskeepsi got mer on it through a debian 4.0 install cd and rescue mode..21:27
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Stskeepsand voodoo, obviously21:28
Stskeepsbut yes, the thought of installing lxde has come up once or twice21:29
AStormnice device21:29
AStormI like it already21:29
AStormobsolete technology all the waya21:29
r2d2rogersStskeeps: has the method for getting the rescue menu changed?21:29
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: no, should be the same21:30
r2d2rogersI seem to have lost it then21:30
Shadow_M2when doing ssh -X i am getting errors such as Warning: No xauth data; using fake authentication data for X11 forwarding.21:30
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: verify you have a evkey package21:30
r2d2rogerswill check again next boot21:30
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Stskeepsif not, prod me, cos that means i forgot to add it21:30
r2d2rogerswill do21:30
Shadow_M2and X11 connection rejected because of wrong authentication.Error: Can't open display: localhost:10.021:31
Shadow_M2anyone have an idea21:31
timelessdid you use su?21:31
timelessor was that an ssh -x21:31
timelesswait, 'No xauth data'?21:32
timelesswhere did you start from?21:32
timelesstypically i start by ssh'ing to my tablet21:32
timelessexporting DISPLAY=:021:32
timelessthen ssh -X'ing from the tablet somewhere else21:32
qwerty12_N800Diablo doesn't have xauth installled by default21:32
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timelessoh, heh21:33
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timelessyeah, i guess you'd have to install it21:33
r2d2rogersI don't need xauth usually21:34
r2d2rogersfake works for me from other linux machines21:34
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qwerty12_N800it's not worth installing anyway, sapwood balls it up :
timelessshadow: can you ssh into the tablet?21:35
Stskeepshmm, what are stable mer packages btw, if we were to include more into the std image?21:36
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Stskeepsor should the mer packages just be the base system and what is needed to get it off the grond21:36
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johnxfor now I'd say minimizing the download size would be best, as long as there were good instructions for where people should start looking for apps21:37
johnxI think the latest midori is hildonized21:38
johnxthat would be real nice :)21:38
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crashanddieinstalling Vista SP1 in a VM is a pain :(21:40
timelessi've now hit 504 twice in one day21:41
timeless504 Gateway Time-out21:41
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timelessoops, wrong window21:41
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r2d2rogersStskeeps: I do have evkey21:44
Stskeepswhere is it residing?21:44
qwerty12_N800/usr/bin, I asked where you wanted it installed when i debianized :)21:45
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Stskeepsr2d2rogers: where does /etc/init.d/zrescue-menu point to evkey in?21:46
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r2d2rogersusr /bin/evkey21:47
r2d2rogers/usr/bin/evkey  looks right...21:47
r2d2rogersthink the case isn't catching the 770? SU-18 ?21:47
r2d2rogers /usr/bin/evkey  looks right...21:48
r2d2rogersleading / wasn't sure it posted...21:48
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r2d2rogerslooks like the home button isn't working at all21:49
r2d2rogersall the other hardware buttons seem right21:50
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jaemgood morning21:52
r2d2rogersI think I have useful dmesg log now though... for the wireless21:52
* r2d2rogers tries to figure out how to get it off the device21:52
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: ls -l /dev/input21:55
Stskeepscheck /etc/rcS.d and see if zrescue-menu is run before or after udev21:55
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r2d2rogerszrescue-menu is S03 and udev is S1021:57
Stskeepsah fsck21:57
Stskeeps.. why can't linux systems just be sane once in a while..21:58
Stskeepscan you tell me the major/minors of your /dev/input/ event devices?21:58
Stskeepsls -l it21:58
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johnxanyone interested in screenshots of the latest svn version of midori all nice and hildonized running in mer?21:59
r2d2rogersmice and mouse022:00
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Stskeepsjohnx: yes, gladly22:00
qwerty12_N800johnx: me, me, me! :)22:00
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: yeah, thats the names, what about the major, minor numbers?22:00
r2d2rogersafter the group in the ls -l ?22:00
r2d2rogersall are 13 then event is 64 65 66, mice is 63 and mouse0 is 3222:01
guysoft42hey, i am trying to compile something in sctachbox, but it wants the package libeventdb-dev . apt-get does not find it.. where can i get it?22:03
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qwerty12_N800guysoft42: it's in diablo extras-devel (dunno about extras)22:05
guysoft42qwerty12_N800, what line needs to go in the sources.list?22:06
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guysoft42deb-src diablo/sdk free extras-devel ?22:06
qwerty12_N800deb diablo free non-free22:07
johnxhot midori on mer lovin:
guysoft42ah wait, think i found it22:07
guysoft42thanks qwerty12_N800 :)22:07
qwerty12_N800np :)22:07
qwerty12_N800johnx: wicked! :)22:08
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johnxmy usual google maps seat-o-the pants benchmark says marginally faster than webkit-eal22:08
Stskeepsjohnx: so gotta package..22:08
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Stskeepsso gotta upload and build :P22:08
guysoft42johnx, your getting midori to work?! yay!22:08
Stskeeps(merbuilder is up again)22:08
Stskeepsguysoft42: thats on Mer :>22:08
johnxguysoft42, it's all from upstream :)22:08
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guysoft42Stskeeps, how is mer? i was interested... i am not really keeping track of the open source builds22:09
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Stskeepsguysoft42: it is insane but scaringily able22:10
johnxand the SDK *works*22:10
johnxmidori built from only SDK-included dependencies22:10
guysoft42in what way insane? unstable? or metamorphic the idea is insane..22:11
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johnxerr...SDK-accessed dependencies I should say22:11
Stskeepsjohnx: yeah, except for C++ and python :P22:11
johnxshh... :P22:11
johnxI'm trying to sell product here. get back to developing :D22:11
Stskeepsjohnx, Mer Marketing Manager22:12
* guysoft42 is trying to fix the lines in gpe-summery22:12
Stskeepsor short, 3M.22:12
johnxwhat do you mean we're not charging money?! O_o;22:12
johnxone more screenie:
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crashanddieis that mer?22:13
Stskeepsjohnx: you should post it as hype for 0.8 :P22:13
Stskeepsas 0.8 is dullingly boring else :>22:13
johnxlet me upload a package and I'll let someone like Meiz do the hyping...if I put it in section user/internet will it show up in our h-a-m all nice and pretty?22:14
Stskeepsjohnx: yes22:14
Stskeepsi think22:14
Stskeepslook after the new categories :P22:14
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Stskeepsjohnx: i suspect this hildonizing might actually have been built using mer.. but i am not sure22:15
Stskeepssince the guy was in #mer the other week22:16
crashanddieif johnx's the marketing manager22:16
crashanddiewho's the product manager?22:16
johnxyeah. I talked to him while he was finishing this up. just got around to trying it today. :) I should send him some screenshots22:16
Stskeepscrashanddie: at least qwerty12_N800 is the CTO.. :P22:17
crashanddieoh shit22:17
crashanddiefrom Johnx's question though, I'm happy he's not the CFO :D22:17
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crashanddiecf (johnx) what do you mean we're not charging money?!22:18
johnxwe'll have to fall back on plan b: get MS to buy us out22:18
qwerty12_N800johnx: use user/network section, then h-a-m will localise it as internet & networking22:19
johnxgot it :) thanks qwerty12_N80022:19
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johnx...this is not a sane reasonable package, BTW. it's a *demo* just so we're clear...22:22
MaceN800love wifi tethering to my g122:22
MaceN800xchat is pretty good too22:22
MaceN800hm... think i am going to buy this artigo boc now22:23
guysoft42hey, to what do i need to change: hildon-home-plugin/hildon-home-plugin-interface.h includes to so it will work?22:24
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johnxif someone does a real package for midori for mer I suggest basing off of the debian or ubuntu package...22:27
qwerty12_N800I don't think people will care just as long as it installs :D22:28
qwerty12_N800(which, it evidently does :))22:29
johnxit appears to at any rate22:29
crashanddieoy johnx, the screenshot you posted earlier, is that mer? Which browser is that?22:30
johnxthat's midori in mer :)22:30
johnxand I can tell you it is lightning-goddamn-fast :)22:30
crashanddiemay I make a suggestion?22:30
johnxsure, go for it, but keep in mind I'm just the packager22:30
crashanddieyeah, but you'll bounce it to those who need it22:30
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crashanddieput the fucking menu on top, and when the user starts scrolling down the page, the menu stays on top of the page, scrolls off the screen, in essence22:31
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: I'm gonna go with the ps method of not running osso-pick-theme twice, using dbus via osso_rpc_async_run to run it with a string of 'run_bitch' doesn't work so well :/22:31
johnxcrashanddie, (I assume you mean toolbar) fennec?22:32
crashanddiedunno how fennec works, never seen it in action22:32
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: i would just use a lock file really22:32
crashanddiei'm just starting to get frustrated at all those browsers that use up so much screen real estate... There's not much on a tablet, so please use it sparingly22:32
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps: I'm not really a fan of lock files, too much hassle if, for example, watchdog strikes while the theme window is open22:33
johnxhow about 'hide with keypress'?22:33
johnxescape seems like a good candidate for that22:34
crashanddiejohnx: I should have to press a button22:34
johnxyes. I agree. you should have to press buttons22:34
RST38hok, now ti83 really works but I need wazd to fix the faceplate22:34
crashanddieI shouldn't have to22:34
crashanddieI use the toolbar what, rougly 8.34% of the time I use the browser?22:35
johnxyou would rather have to scroll all the way to the top of the page everytime?22:35
johnxthen you will love fennec22:35
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crashanddiejohnx: I could just press a button to call it... Makes a lot more sense to have something I barely use popup when I ask it, instead of having to hide it constantly22:35
johnxgive it a shot and see how it works for you, since it has exactly the kind of interface you're talking about. I tried it and found I prefered to just waste the space22:36
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crashanddiegod you're stubborn22:36
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johnxlol...I'm not the dev anyways22:36
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johnxbut you just said you shouldn't have to press a button22:36
johnxnow you want to press buttons?22:36
crashanddiejohnx: you press a button when you take an elevator right?22:37
johnxwhat are we even talking about?22:37
crashanddieand you don't press a button everytime you don't want to use an elevator, right?22:37 press button it goes away. press again it disappears22:37
r2d2rogerswith the wireless module in place, what would keep the wifi from being recognized on boot?22:37
johnxand usually when I use an elevator I'm standing in line anyways and someone else presses the button22:38
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: ifconfig wlan0 up?22:38
johnxerrr...s/disappears/re-appears/ :)22:38
r2d2rogerswaiting for boot to finish and will try just that and restart NetworkManager22:38
r2d2rogersStskeeps: looks like I have to modprobe after boot, should there be somethiing else added to get that to work?22:40
* johnx actually has a nice extended metaphor involving toolbars, buttons and elevators :)22:40
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: tablet-wireless package is nice22:40
r2d2rogersgotta get rescue menu working for more packages22:41
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Stskeepsyeah.. lemme just finish up this math22:41
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r2d2rogersif I rename the rescue menu to be after the dbus wil that get me there?22:41
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guysoft42</hildon-home-plugin-interface.h> does this come from some packate?22:41
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Stskeepsr2d2rogers: udev you mean22:44
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r2d2rogersStskeeps:  right22:45
Stskeepspushed changes to imager22:45
guysoft42where can i get the maemo-af-desktop package?22:45
r2d2rogersStskeeps: best to re-image then?22:45
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: yeah.. will save me some time in the weekend if its ok22:45
Stskeepsas i cannot test the 770 images22:45
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qwerty12_N800guysoft42: it's been replaced in chinook by hildon-something. remember, gpesummary has already been ported to os2008, use that source package to recompile from - not the bora one22:46
crashanddiegoing home, ttyl22:46
r2d2rogersStskeeps: will do22:47
crashanddieqwerty12_N800: gimme a shout if you're around waterloo one of these days22:47
guysoft42qwerty12_N800, has it.. er strange let me see if i have the updated code22:47
qwerty12_N800crashanddie: sure :), see ya22:47
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jaemI have a bit of an issue... UPS wanted to charge me $64 Brokerage fees, because Nokia hadn't marked my warranty shipment as an RMA..22:48
guysoft42qwerty12_N800, it seems to be the updated version on
Stskeepsjaem: could be worse22:48
jaemso UPS said that Nokia could just fax in updated forms, but the tech support line is saying that they can't sdo that22:48
jaemSts: that's twice what I payed to ship it there, and I don't really have the money to spare22:48
jaemI'm confused as to why they couldn't do that, though22:49
Stskeepstry a new tech support turn? but yeah, they should have marked it as RMA i guess22:49
jaemyou're right, though - it could be worse22:49
jaema friend of mine's dad once got charged $95 by UPS... for two $3 bolts22:50
Stskeepspeople in .dk have been slapped with toll for RMA replacements.. like, outside EU toll22:50
Stskeepswhich is nasty22:50
qwerty12_N800guysoft42: - updated in 2008, beats 2007 on that garage page :)22:50
jaem"Press (1) to hear a two minute speech about why you should visit our website instead of bugging us"22:51
guysoft42qwerty12_N800, thanks :)22:52
* johnx presses 122:52
Stskeepsphone systems are definately a design by the devil22:52
* qwerty12_N800 dials 66622:53
jaemwhat I hate more is when you spend 5 minutes getting to a menu, press the wrong button, and it says "sorry, we can't help at all - talk to someone else"22:53
* johnx used to maintain phone systems until he developed the quite explicable urge to flee the country22:53
jaemor Broadcom... Website: "call 1800-123-4567" / Phone line: "check out website"22:53
Stskeepsjohnx: pitchforks outside your apartment?22:53
johnxStskeeps, more like wanting to organize a cage match between our PBX vendor and the people providing our lines22:54
johnx"two men enter, one man leaves!"22:54
jaemI would bet that the people who design a lot of these systems has never actually used them22:55
johnxit's a case of new bits being grafted onto essentially a 100 year old system22:55
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jaemsomeone needs to make a horror film about a 1-800 number that sucks you in, and dooms you to a life of sitting on hold, listening to short loops of inspiration music22:56
infobotjaem meant: someone needs to make a horror film about a 1-800 number that sucks you in, and dooms you to a life of sitting on hold, listening to short loops of inspirational music22:57
Stskeepsjaem: american TV, you mean22:57
qwerty12_N800Maybe the guys who made 419 will be interested :P22:57
Stskeepsi watch the horror your commercials are, compared to the danish ones22:58
johnxheh :)22:58
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jaemmmm... danishes.... I wouldn't mind commericials for pastries22:58
johnxand I've seen plenty of current Japanese commercials inspired by US commercials ... from the 80's22:59
r2d2rogersStskeeps: just started imager23:01
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mavhcjaem: that wouldn't be a film, at most a video art installation23:07
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jaemI'd feel sorry for the artists' victims23:08 should be an 'experience'23:08
johnxlike they have the indiana jones ride at disneyland23:08
jaemif MS ran it, they'd put the word "Experience" in there somewheree23:08
johnxwhere they lock you into a chair23:08
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mavhcsomeone once made a film where a guy taped his mouth/nose over, then handcuffed himself to a chair23:09
jaemwow... Plan 9 boots slowly23:11
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RST38hjohnx: You will love this one:
johnxheh. saw it before actually, but yeah, kinda fun23:14
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johnxw00! midori just finished on x8623:20
* johnx sleeps23:20
Shadow_Mhey timeless what do you do to fix the display issue using ssh -x on the it23:20
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guysoft42yay, got the line for the events :) .. i can write a patch23:21
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guysoft42or just write a package that writes "yay" on every appointment you have.. thats what the code just  did in my maemo23:22
Stskeeps hehe23:22
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guysoft42um, is there a way to run the hildon desktop in scrachbox so i dont need to recompile, package and send over bluetooth my package?23:22
Shadow_MStskeeps, do you know hwo to fix the the fact then when i ssh into a machine and try to ford x i get X11 connection rejected because of wrong authentication.Error: Can't open display: localhost:10.023:24
StskeepsShadow_M: other than using mer or doing some xauthinstallation, no23:24
Shadow_Mwell i installed xauth here but thats it23:25
Stskeepsyou use openssh-client?23:25
Stskeepsand use -X ?23:25
Shadow_Mand when it goes into the system i get the localhost 10 issue where i did this a day or 2 ago and it worked23:26
guysoft42um, does anyone know how i can get the width of the applet window i am in?23:30
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Shadow_Manyone X11 connection rejected because of wrong authentication.Error: Can't open display: localhost:10.023:40
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MaceN800ssd drives are still pretty expensive23:57

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