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| thopiekar | http://pastebin.com/d52b0150e ( lcuk ) | 00:09 |
|---|---|---|
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| mavhc | I can't find my n810, ssh'ing into it to start mplayer so I can hear it | 00:12 |
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| thopiekar_N800 | mavhc: ? | 00:12 |
| * thopiekar is shuting down the pc | 00:13 | |
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| Stskeeps | woo, mer on my old laptop | 00:15 |
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| wazd | Next step is "mer on coffee-machine" and "Mer on vacum" :D | 00:19 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Don't forget the toaster :P | 00:19 |
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| sts|mertop | its the mertop! | 00:20 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hehe | 00:20 |
| thopiekar_N800 | mertop :D | 00:20 |
| b-man | lol | 00:20 |
| sts|mertop | this can be read on 100m distance | 00:21 |
| b-man | hehe | 00:21 |
| lcuk | sts|mertop, "visible from orbit" | 00:22 |
| b-man | XD | 00:22 |
| thopiekar_N800 | ^^ | 00:22 |
| b-man | sts|mertop; http://trac.tspre.org/bman/merinstaller-mer4/ - uploaded new merinstaller package ;) | 00:22 |
| sts|mertop | b-man: alright, would still like to see it committed to bzr | 00:23 |
| lcuk | I love the idea of a dynamic touchable slate being used by old people :) | 00:23 |
| lcuk | really big easy focus controls | 00:23 |
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| sts|mertop | but seriously, we need to fix that ctrl-m problem. | 00:24 |
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| Macer | wow... my psu on my shuttle k45 died | 00:24 |
| Macer | so i got a picopsu to replace it | 00:24 |
| sts|mertop | picopsus are interesting | 00:24 |
| Macer | which wound up costing just as much as a k45 | 00:24 |
| Macer | :) | 00:24 |
| Macer | at least the picoPSU will not make the disgusting noise the fan in the stock psu made | 00:25 |
| Macer | it's really no wonder why it died now.. it sounded like it was grinding to death | 00:25 |
| Macer | mini-box.com has some interesting shit | 00:26 |
| Macer | i might make something even smaller if i get the chance | 00:26 |
| Macer | wonder what i'm going to do about that giant hole where the stock psu used to be.. guess i'll just put some tape there | 00:29 |
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| * thopiekar_N800 has thought that Macer is just another user using mer.. maybe M(ac)er on an (M)acer pc/laptop... but this would be a unbeleaveable chance... | 00:31 | |
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| Macer | er... no.. i'm on my mb | 00:31 |
| Macer | i haven't even put mer on my n800 yet :) | 00:31 |
| Macer | i'm still using maemo... will probably put it on tomorrow tho to try it out | 00:32 |
| thopiekar_N800 | ^^ | 00:32 |
| Macer | just need to grab another SD .. i like being able to print from my sd maemo install with my n800 | 00:32 |
| Macer | works great with my su8w and brother laser printer | 00:32 |
| Macer | sure wish i had a good office app and cups for my damn G1 | 00:32 |
| Macer | and bt kb support :) | 00:33 |
| mavhc | and an external monitor | 00:33 |
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| thopiekar_N800 | mavhc: for what? | 00:33 |
| mavhc | for the desktop computer in a phone | 00:34 |
| sts|mertop | i present you the http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mertop.jpg - the friggen mertop! | 00:35 |
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| Macer | mavhc - would be nice to just use vnc for it ;) | 00:36 |
| Macer | vnc has an independent display.. might go a little slower.. but at least you'd get a larger desktop | 00:36 |
| mavhc | what about those usb monitors? | 00:37 |
| wazd | It's a Merbook! | 00:37 |
| wazd | Not a Mertop! | 00:37 |
| mavhc | surely a merbook is mer ported to kindle | 00:37 |
| Macer | wow sts :) that looks a little ghetto | 00:37 |
| sts|mertop | i was bored and my other laptop is crashy | 00:39 |
| Jucato | excuse me, a question: how can I edit bootmenu.sh? I'm logged in as root (ssh), but it's still readonly | 00:39 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | mount -o remount,rw /mnt/initfs/ | 00:40 |
| Jucato | ah thanks | 00:40 |
| Jucato | just need to change the timeout and menu entries :) | 00:41 |
| sts|mertop | i can reveal that droid sand is .. interesting, on a huge screen | 00:43 |
| sts|mertop | sans | 00:43 |
| qwerty12_N800 | good or bad? :/ | 00:43 |
| sts|mertop | not sure | 00:44 |
| Macer | i'm still kind of pissed about this damn shuttle | 00:45 |
| Macer | with its shitty psu | 00:45 |
| Macer | i wound up spending like $60 for this damn picoPSU | 00:45 |
| Macer | on a barebones case/mb that cost $90 | 00:45 |
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| Macer | DAMN YOU CHINA! | 00:46 |
| thopiekar_N800 | :D | 00:48 |
| mavhc | I do irc-know the guy writing the linux drivers for displaylink, but looking at http://www.ndiyo.org they're not going to be open source for a while | 00:49 |
| Macer | hm. | 00:49 |
| Macer | they seriously need to make an esxi client for osx or X | 00:49 |
| Macer | i need one.. i don't have a windows box anymore right now | 00:49 |
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| Macer | think it's time to install fusion on the macbook or something | 00:49 |
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| thopiekar_N800 | is streamripper opensource..? | 00:53 |
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| lcuk | http://fora.tv/2007/09/27/Implementing_Science_Fiction#Motivations_Behind_Computer_Hacking | 00:58 |
| lcuk | :D wow | 00:58 |
| * thopiekar_N800 is away: <away|from|tablet> | 01:02 | |
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| jiiv | hello everyone. | 01:04 |
| Stskeeps | evening | 01:05 |
| thopiekar_N800 | hi *oops | 01:05 |
| jiiv | stskeeps: looking forward to trying mer if ever i get some free time :/ | 01:05 |
| Stskeeps | away from tablet.. isnt that impossible | 01:06 |
| timeless | generalantilles: ping | 01:06 |
| Stskeeps | jiiv: hehe, i think my devel time just dropped 15 percent, my home laptop overheats and dies | 01:06 |
| jiiv | well, i'm fairly reliant on the 810 for worky stuff at this point. | 01:06 |
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| jiiv | ick1 | 01:07 |
| Stskeeps | grab a vmdk then | 01:07 |
| jiiv | how does power management compare to maemo now? deblet rocked, but seemed to kill batteries pretty quickly. | 01:08 |
| StsN800 | didn't start measuring yet as we need to replicate some stuff to give really good power savings (mce) | 01:09 |
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| jiiv | ah. i may go ahead and throw it on a spare card later and see how it goes. | 01:10 |
| Stskeeps | :nod: else fire it up in vmware or virtualbox | 01:11 |
| timeless | sts: got a diablo device? | 01:11 |
| * timeless is reviewing strings | 01:11 | |
| StsN800 | timeless, w | 01:12 |
| timeless | open bookmarks | 01:12 |
| timeless | app menu>bookmark | 01:12 |
| timeless | i'm considering dropping the elipsis for 'edit' in that menu | 01:12 |
| timeless | do you understand the rules for elipsis? | 01:13 |
| qwerty12_N800 | It opens a dialog though | 01:13 |
| timeless | that's not the rule | 01:13 |
| timeless | the rule is based on whether the dialog is the intended consequence or something which interrupts the intended action | 01:14 |
| Macer | anybody here mess with fusion? | 01:14 |
| timeless | a 'settings' dialog should have a menu item w/o an elipsis | 01:14 |
| StsN800 | timeless, bookmarks so need an ordering feature | 01:14 |
| Macer | i guess there is no infrastructure client for osx for esxi | 01:14 |
| jiiv | Oh, unrelated question: anyone know of a way to lock the position of home applets in maemo? i haven't found a solution yet and i'm sick of moving them around on accident. | 01:14 |
| Macer | what a let down | 01:14 |
| jiiv | /agree sts | 01:14 |
| timeless | because the goal of selecting settings is to view/edit the settings | 01:14 |
| StsN800 | jiiv, fixedinfremantle | 01:15 |
| timeless | sts: bookmarks need to be shot, we're going ot shoot them for fremantle | 01:15 |
| Macer | is fremantle out? | 01:15 |
| jiiv | ah :/ ok. | 01:15 |
| timeless | macer: we haven't event shipped an alpha sdk for fremantle | 01:15 |
| Macer | heh.. i see | 01:15 |
| timeless | last i checked there was a pre2 of an alpha sdk | 01:15 |
| Macer | it's not going to work on an n800 anyways is it? | 01:15 |
| qwerty12_N800 | jiiv, there's a patched h-d on bugzilla but it doesn't remember a lock setting on reboot | 01:16 |
| Macer | talk about feeling abandoned :) | 01:16 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: purpose of mer.. | 01:16 |
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| jiiv | qwerty: thanks, will have a look. | 01:16 |
| Stskeeps | this discussion was earlier today | 01:16 |
| Macer | ah.. missed it | 01:16 |
| Macer | still.. mer is all community open source | 01:17 |
| Macer | any actual nokia support for it? | 01:17 |
| timeless | you say that it's like a bad thing | 01:17 |
| Macer | heh | 01:17 |
| Macer | sometimes it is | 01:17 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: again, we had discussion already earlier today. yes, nokia helps a lot already | 01:18 |
| Macer | look at GTK :) | 01:18 |
| Stskeeps | the pre-alpha code drops has made it possible to get quite ahead, so :P | 01:21 |
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| Macer | well... still have a couple more months of record unemployment numbers | 01:25 |
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| johnx | morning all :) | 01:25 |
| Stskeeps | morn johnx | 01:26 |
| Macer | hey johnx | 01:26 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: ze mertop!: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mertop.jpg :> | 01:26 |
| Macer | it's actually almost night time here | 01:26 |
| johnx | Macer, yeah, but I'm on UGT | 01:26 |
| * timeless grumbles | 01:26 | |
| timeless | is "Zoom in" used in diablo's browser? | 01:26 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Macer, it's nearly midnight here :p | 01:26 |
| Macer | heh | 01:27 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: "Zooming to"? | 01:27 |
| Macer | almost midnight? | 01:27 |
| Macer | where are you at? iceland? | 01:27 |
| qwerty12_N800 | London :P | 01:27 |
| Macer | close enough :) | 01:27 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, nice :) our h-d could use a little bit of resolution independence | 01:27 |
| thopiekar_N800 | Berlin,Germany (oops^^) | 01:31 |
| tonyyarusso | Say, I just ordered up a Nokia N810. However, from what I can see in pictures, the keyboard lacks a tab key. Since I do a fair number of things with tab-complete, I was wondering is there a way to rig up a hotkey combo for a pseudo-tab? | 01:31 |
| johnx | like in a terminal? | 01:32 |
| qwerty12_N800 | I've seen posts on itt where people describe how to map tab to a keyboard button somewhere | 01:32 |
| johnx | or ctrl-i should work | 01:33 |
| johnx | in the terminal at least | 01:33 |
| tonyyarusso | johnx: Cool, that would be okay. | 01:34 |
| tonyyarusso | qwerty12_N800: Don't suppose you bothered to bookmark any eh? | 01:34 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Nope, got an N800 here :) | 01:34 |
| johnx | you kids and your N810s with physical keyboards. Why back in our day... :D | 01:34 |
| timeless | qwerty/johnx: wanna try a new version of my strings? | 01:35 |
| johnx | timeless, sure | 01:35 |
| timeless | sts: i specifically mean a 'zoom in' or a 'zoom out' menu item | 01:35 |
| lcuk | tonyyarusso, just a mo | 01:35 |
| timeless | it's vaguely possible such a string is used in a context menu of a frame or something similarly obscure | 01:35 |
| lcuk | http://www.thisismobility.com/blog/2007/12/31/adding-pipe-and-tab-to-the-n810-keyboard/ | 01:35 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: don't think so | 01:36 |
| jiiv | tonyarusso: something like xmodmap -e 'comma = comma tab tab tab tab tab' will turn function-comma into a tab. | 01:36 |
| lcuk | i remember the keywords :) | 01:36 |
| lcuk | read the comments as well | 01:36 |
| tonyyarusso | johnx: Hehe. What can I say, it was on sale for like $250 off. | 01:36 |
| lcuk | johnx, :) i like res free rendering | 01:36 |
| qwerty12_N800 | tonyyarusso, google "nokia_vndr/rx-44" | 01:36 |
| qwerty12_N800 | ah lcuk got there first :) | 01:36 |
| lcuk | or google "n810 pipe tab" | 01:36 |
| lcuk | which is what i remember it as | 01:37 |
| tonyyarusso | sweet | 01:37 |
| lcuk | the comments give an alternative method as well | 01:37 |
| lcuk | so read it all first | 01:37 |
| qwerty12_N800 | timeless, not now, i can't be bothered to run dpkg at 11:37 pm sorry :) | 01:37 |
| b-man | lol | 01:37 |
| johnx | qwerty12_N800, jeez. it's later here :P | 01:38 |
| * b-man compiles packages untill he falls asleep | 01:38 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | johnx, i made myself tired by debianising evkey in a mer chroot with on hildon keyboard :o :P | 01:39 |
| qwerty12_N800 | s/on/only a/ | 01:39 |
| infobot | qwerty12_N800 meant: johnx, i made myself tired by debianising evkey in a mer chroot with only a hildon keyboard :o :P | 01:39 |
| johnx | well, then I appreciate the work :) you have permission to be tired | 01:39 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hehe :) | 01:39 |
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| * timeless grumbles | 01:41 | |
| * Stskeeps heads to bed | 01:41 | |
| timeless | can someone please explain why (browser)app Menu>Navigation> has Bookmarks(!) but History list(...) | 01:41 |
| * qwerty12_N800 really needs to figure out how he can get osso_cp_plugin_execute to play nice with advanced backlight. so far I've added a "display settings" option that segfaults hildon desktop >.< | 01:41 | |
| timeless | hrm, seems maemo can't get elipsis right for Settings | 01:43 |
| * timeless will fix that in a future rev | 01:43 | |
| timeless | perhaps 0.1.2 | 01:43 |
| johnx | heh...so the 'we can't guarantee' your software will be changed in 0.1.2 or you're sticking with it? | 01:50 |
| timeless | oh, i forgot | 01:50 |
| timeless | This software might work, there are no guarantees about it. | 01:51 |
| johnx | that's not true either | 01:51 |
| timeless | This software might not work, there are no guarantees about it. | 01:51 |
| timeless | there are two strings | 01:51 |
| johnx | closer, but conceivably the person who put it in extras is providing a guarantee | 01:51 |
| timeless | oh | 01:51 |
| timeless | so, the difference between work and not work | 01:52 |
| timeless | is whether it mgiht be from nokia | 01:52 |
| johnx | ha! | 01:52 |
| johnx | really? | 01:52 |
| timeless | if it is from nokia, it's the latter | 01:52 |
| timeless | yes | 01:52 |
| johnx | cute | 01:52 |
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| timeless | This software might (not) work, there are no guarantees. | 01:53 |
| johnx | gah! but that's still not necessarily true. the intent is to excuse Nokia, not anyone else :P | 01:54 |
| timeless | yeah well | 01:54 |
| timeless | i'm screwing the intent here | 01:54 |
| timeless | :) | 01:54 |
| johnx | eh, then you'll get nothing but bug reports from me :P | 01:54 |
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| timeless | alright, offer something else | 01:55 |
| timeless | the dialogs happen for 'might be from nokia (or not)' and 'not from a verified source' | 01:55 |
| timeless | whatever those concepts are | 01:55 |
| timeless | ask the h-a-m- code | 01:55 |
| johnx | This software ( may | may not) work, but Nokia provides no guarantee. Do you still want to continue installing it? | 01:55 |
| timeless | ai_nc_non_verified_package, ai_nc_unsure_package | 01:55 |
| timeless | This software may (not) work and Nokia does not provide any guarantees. Do you still want to install it? | 01:57 |
| timeless | i take it you don't like 'at your own risk'? | 01:57 |
| johnx | that's lawyer-speak that I wouldn't mind seeing on the cutting room floor :) | 01:58 |
| timeless | alright | 01:58 |
| timeless | you picked 'may' over 'might' | 01:58 |
| timeless | any reason? | 01:58 |
| johnx | aesthetic preference | 01:58 |
| timeless | alright, may + but | 01:59 |
| johnx | dunno | 01:59 |
| johnx | I really don't care about the specifics, but I think the important part is including "Nokia" somewhere in there | 01:59 |
| timeless | should do you want to install it be on its own line? | 01:59 |
| Macer | an arctic fox female has a penis and lays an egg in the male | 01:59 |
| Macer | how odd | 01:59 |
| johnx | timeless, they're the ones that cared enough to add a click-through to a linux package manager. it's important for users to understand that the warning is coming from them I think | 02:00 |
| timeless | macer: that wikipedia article has dozens of typos in a single paragraph | 02:00 |
| johnx | also: I'm sure the lawyers had to vet the original string | 02:00 |
| Macer | yeah.. i thought that was strange too | 02:00 |
| Macer | timeless: i think i'll find another article heh | 02:00 |
| Macer | from another web site or something | 02:00 |
| johnx | or try that new tool for visualizing wiki-fights :) | 02:01 |
| timeless | http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Arctic_Fox&diff=269389852&oldid=269119311 | 02:01 |
| timeless | wikipedia is being attacked | 02:01 |
| timeless | at least that page is | 02:01 |
| timeless | http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Arctic_Fox&diff=269389852&oldid=269119311 | 02:02 |
| timeless | err, wrong window | 02:02 |
| Macer | heh.. yeah | 02:02 |
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| Macer | that article is fucked | 02:02 |
| Macer | i thought the female penis and inside the male egg laying was ... well.. very unmammal like | 02:03 |
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| johnx | Macer, that's what she said | 02:07 |
| Macer | haha | 02:08 |
| Macer | you know.. the hax0r should have left all the typos out | 02:08 |
| Macer | :) | 02:08 |
| Macer | then i would have seriously thought that female penii lay eggs in male arctic foxes | 02:09 |
| johnx | 'hax0ring' wikipedia: like stealing books from a library or jacking food from your local food bank | 02:09 |
| Macer | hah | 02:09 |
| Macer | yeah.. i suppose so :) well.. i can write wikipedia off the list of sites to get information from | 02:09 |
| johnx | eh | 02:10 |
| Macer | there goes my whole concept of the theory of relativity | 02:10 |
| johnx | you just have to be critical about what you read...just like...anywhere | 02:10 |
| timeless | btw, that Fox page fixed itself | 02:10 |
| Macer | i suppose.. but i wouldn't be as critical towards encyclopedia britanica | 02:11 |
| Macer | ;) | 02:11 |
| soap | I just saw a stat. Forget the >50 number, but a vast majority of wiki edits are reviewed within 5 minutes. | 02:11 |
| johnx | which is silly, because as a corporation they may have a vested interest in affecting your opinions on certain subjects | 02:11 |
| soap | and individuals don't? | 02:11 |
| Macer | johnx: possibly.. if there were encyclopedia lobbyists outside their doors ? ;) | 02:12 |
| johnx | that was @Macer. I'm just too slow before coffee | 02:12 |
| Macer | which i doubt because sales are down | 02:12 |
| johnx | or if they had an article on wikipedia :) | 02:12 |
| Macer | aha | 02:13 |
| johnx | or by extension: the internet | 02:13 |
| Macer | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Encyclopedia_britanica | 02:13 |
| Macer | what a slap in the face that is | 02:14 |
| Macer | :) | 02:14 |
| johnx | or if they were associated with another company who might have expressed that it would be nice if the negative parts were cut out of the article about them | 02:14 |
| Macer | heh | 02:14 |
| Macer | yeah i suppose... but eventually someone would discover such a thing | 02:14 |
| johnx | and then...? | 02:15 |
| Macer | blackmail them i suppose | 02:15 |
| Macer | God knows that they wouldn't want to tell others when there is self gain to be made :) | 02:15 |
| johnx | you're right. sounds like a fine system :) | 02:15 |
| Macer | isn't it? | 02:15 |
| Macer | greed usually is | 02:15 |
| Macer | bbl.. need to eat and take a nap | 02:16 |
| Macer | have to take the gf and her mother to the airport tomorrow | 02:16 |
| Macer | later | 02:16 |
| timeless | so um | 02:18 |
| timeless | help? | 02:18 |
| timeless | anyone here understand cauldron? | 02:18 |
| johnx | hm? | 02:18 |
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| timeless | https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/language-support-translations-enus1_0.1.1/i386.build.log.FAILED.txt | 02:19 |
| timeless | what does that mean? | 02:19 |
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| timeless | i've tried the commands it lists in my Mer session | 02:22 |
| timeless | and it works fine | 02:22 |
| qwerty12_N800 | me & sp3000 sorted that out a few days ago, just move your gtk20-l10n-enus1 depend onto the Depends line like "Depends: gtk20-l10n-enus1," | 02:22 |
| timeless | can someone try building that package w/ diablo? | 02:22 |
| timeless | oh | 02:22 |
| timeless | ok | 02:22 |
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| * timeless chuckles | 02:32 | |
| timeless | reassing | 02:32 |
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| * timeless cries | 03:00 | |
| timeless | "Join a multiperson chat" | 03:00 |
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| timeless | Mind indeed if i do. | 03:00 |
| johnx | do it! do it now! | 03:01 |
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| * b-man reports a malicious individual that has been attacking a website that he was a member of - the hacker was taking over everyones profile >:( | 03:17 | |
| johnx | either that or it's just a fad to have the same profile :) | 03:18 |
| b-man | no, people are complaining - and freaking out | 03:18 |
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| b-man | (amagin being on ITT, having someone unknowingly steel your password/username and begin posing as you) | 03:20 |
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| GeneralAntilles | timeless, pong. | 03:25 |
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| Macer | hm | 03:40 |
| Macer | damn popcornhour | 03:40 |
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| timeless | GeneralAntilles: so, i have an updated package for you to try | 03:46 |
| lcuk | quiz: what do you think will happen when i click on the cluster of photos? http://liqbase.net/liq.20090208_205336.lib.scr.png | 03:46 |
| johnx | it will show up a larger version of the gallery? | 03:47 |
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| lcuk | :D then they zoom to fullscreen in just the same way | 03:47 |
| lcuk | its effing marvelous | 03:47 |
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| hatseflats | evening everyone | 03:48 |
| johnx | hi | 03:48 |
| hatseflats | I'm having a bit of trouble flashing my n810 | 03:48 |
| b-man | hello, hatseflats | 03:49 |
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| hatseflats | I follow the instructions on the maemo.org wiki page, but the flasher tool complains that there is no suitable usb device | 03:49 |
| johnx | are you running as root? does the usb icon appear on the n810? | 03:49 |
| hatseflats | Checklist; correct flasher, correct image, battery charged, charger unplugged, device switched off, connected over USB, running as root, no icon on the n810, in fact, it's just 'off' | 03:50 |
| hatseflats | no backlight, no led, nothing | 03:50 |
| hatseflats | the USB connection itself should be okay, I just used it to backup my /home | 03:51 |
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| johnx | ok, so you plug it into usb, start the flasher, hold the 'swap' (aka squares button) and then you need to turn on the tablet | 03:51 |
| hatseflats | nothing happening | 03:51 |
| johnx | the tablet doesn't turn on when you press the power switch? | 03:52 |
| Macer | this nzbget crap this popcornhour has is... interesting | 03:52 |
| Macer | it's kind of shitty | 03:52 |
| hatseflats | johnx: when I hit the power switch it does, when I hit the power switch AND the swap button, nothing happens | 03:52 |
| johnx | so it won't turn on if you press the power switch while holding the swap button? quite strange | 03:53 |
| hatseflats | indeed | 03:53 |
| hatseflats | flashing like this worked fine a few months back | 03:53 |
| hatseflats | but this isn't a known issue then? | 03:53 |
| johnx | ok, isntead of hitting the power switch, try just plugging in the charger | 03:53 |
| johnx | correct, not a known issues AFAIK | 03:53 |
| hatseflats | k | 03:53 |
| hatseflats | plugging in the charger boots it up as usual, testing with swap button in a few secs | 03:54 |
| johnx | generally if the flasher is running and it's plugged in to USB, attaching the charger should boot it up in 'flash' mode I believe | 03:55 |
| hatseflats | hmmm | 03:55 |
| hatseflats | nothing there either | 03:55 |
| hatseflats | grmbl... | 03:55 |
| * timeless grumbles | 03:56 | |
| timeless | title: Join chat | 03:56 |
| hatseflats | this is quite frustrating, n810 works fine on diablo, save for the GPS | 03:56 |
| timeless | useless message: Join a multiperson chat | 03:56 |
| timeless | Room name: [ |v] | 03:56 |
| hatseflats | which won't get recognized anymore, so I figure, reflash with a new image | 03:56 |
| timeless | [ OK ] [ Browse ] [ Cancel ] | 03:56 |
| timeless | can anyone think of *any* useful text to stick in the useless message line? | 03:57 |
| * timeless is probably going to blank it | 03:57 | |
| hatseflats | johnx: I got lucky... power on + swap worked this time | 03:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Join a chat room? | 03:57 |
| timeless | does it really add any value? | 03:58 |
| johnx | hatseflats, ah. good deal :) | 03:58 |
| timeless | i mean, what else are you going to do in a chat app in a dialog labeled 'join chat'? | 03:58 |
| timeless | join a convent? | 03:58 |
| johnx | I recommend keeping a stock of PSAs for occasions such as this | 03:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless, wouldn't that be a surprise. | 03:59 |
| johnx | "Remember not to drink and drive." | 03:59 |
| timeless | heh | 03:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless, what should I be paying attention to besides the Control Panel? | 03:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | (Which looks good) | 03:59 |
| timeless | mostly control panel | 04:00 |
| timeless | i've changed browser a bit | 04:00 |
| timeless | possibly backup | 04:00 |
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| timeless | hrm | 04:00 |
| timeless | i'm probably going to change 'Compose message' to 'Write mail' | 04:00 |
| timeless | objections? | 04:01 |
| * GeneralAntilles is proofing all of the 150 photo from Cuba my friend is about to post on Flickr. | 04:01 | |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless, none. | 04:01 |
| timeless | ok | 04:01 |
| * timeless frowns | 04:02 | |
| timeless | A/V Chat isn't really a verb phrase | 04:02 |
| timeless | it's tolerable as an app name | 04:02 |
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| timeless | but in the action section it should probably be Chat (A/V) | 04:03 |
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| wazd | I've made Ti 86 skin :) http://s44.radikal.ru/i105/0902/30/69378ea64303.png | 04:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, drop the Almost Real branding? | 04:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Overall, I think it just takes away from the total effect. | 04:09 |
| wazd | not very accurate replica but recognizable) | 04:09 |
| wazd | Why drop?) It mimics Texas Instruments :) | 04:09 |
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| hatseflats | that's kind of a problem with the people who would consider a Ti skin | 04:10 |
| hatseflats | they are the die-hard nerds | 04:10 |
| hatseflats | you know, the ones that want perfection | 04:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | hatseflats, it's for an emulator. | 04:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, subjective, but I don't like it. :P | 04:10 |
| hatseflats | acsho | 04:10 |
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| wazd | hatseflats: well, Ti calculator is too long to make it pixelperfect with 16:10 screen | 04:11 |
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| hatseflats | wazd: you can always crop or zoom to fit | 04:11 |
| wazd | hatseflats: then it's too small to use comfortly | 04:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | I want a TI-83 or TI-89 | 04:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | I dunno how to use the TI-85/86. :P | 04:12 |
| hatseflats | Ti-83/84 is what I'd want | 04:12 |
| wazd | well, that's the questions to RST38h :) | 04:14 |
| hatseflats | maybe I'm going nuts, but in maemo-mapper, the GPS itself is /dev/pgps right? not a bluetooth passthrough or a GPSD host on localhost? | 04:14 |
| tank-man | depends | 04:15 |
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| hatseflats | well, my GPS icon in the taskbar turns on when I use the /dev/pgps device | 04:18 |
| hatseflats | but maemo-mapper just keeps looking for the receiver and eventually bails out claiming it can't find a GPSD server :/ | 04:18 |
| johnx | I know the trick used to be selecting "bluetooth" and not specifying an addres | 04:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | ^ | 04:20 |
| johnx | not sure if that's still the case but it might be worth a try | 04:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | hatseflats, Bluetooth, no MAC. | 04:20 |
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| hatseflats | ok | 04:20 |
| hatseflats | ah | 04:20 |
| hatseflats | that worked | 04:20 |
| hatseflats | a bluetooth passthrough still | 04:20 |
| hatseflats | ...wth | 04:20 |
| johnx | eh. I think the maemo-mapper dev never had an N810 | 04:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | You gotta get gpsd started. | 04:21 |
| hatseflats | hmmm | 04:22 |
| hatseflats | right now I'm just downloading some 200 megs of maps, and I'm happy the GPS itself is working again, is there an advantage to using gpsd? | 04:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Er | 04:23 |
| ShadowJK | So what's this "qtmapper" thing that appeared | 04:24 |
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| rm_you | johnx: hey so when do you move back again? | 05:12 |
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| * GeneralAntilles emails qgil about the new categories. | 05:33 | |
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| Macer | jesus | 05:40 |
| Macer | this popcorn hour box takes like 2 hours to repair par files when you use an nzb | 05:40 |
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| themactep | I've just published how to connect Maemo Garage Git repos from Eclipse despite the untrusted SSL certificate. Anyone would be interested to add it to Garage docs along with the GIT_SSL_NO_VERIFY solution? | 06:30 |
| rm_you | GeneralAntilles might do it, he seems to like documenting, lol | 06:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | I aint doin' shit. | 06:39 |
| rm_you | lol | 06:39 |
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| Macer | ok. pch nzb client actually seems to work pretty well | 06:53 |
| Macer | before it used to make the video stutter.. probably because of lack of hw demuxing or something.. who knows | 06:53 |
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| jaem | I saw Sts' screenshots of the Pimlico apps on Jaiku... is the Mer team working on those, or just testing? | 07:00 |
| jaem | they needed some work, last time I tried them | 07:00 |
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| alex_mayorga | hi there | 07:01 |
| jaem | hello | 07:02 |
| alex_mayorga | I keep getting a no space on /var when trying to install apps | 07:02 |
| jaem | is there space on var? | 07:02 |
| jaem | what does df tell you? | 07:02 |
| jaem | are you familiar with the terminal? | 07:02 |
| alex_mayorga | also random fake update packages reminders | 07:02 |
| jaem | which packages? | 07:03 |
| alex_mayorga | jaem, kinda | 07:03 |
| jaem | try running df in the console | 07:03 |
| jaem | it will give you the disk usage info for all filesystems | 07:03 |
| alex_mayorga | ok, trying, thanks | 07:04 |
| jaem | alex: if you want lots of system stats like that easily accessible, the Advanced Battery applet does a good job, as well as being better than Nokia's battery applet | 07:04 |
| alex_mayorga | jaem, thanks on the suggestion, problem at hand is / 99% full | 07:06 |
| jaem | have you tried cloning your install to the SD card? | 07:06 |
| jaem | that will give you much more space | 07:06 |
| jaem | the onboard flash is a bit limited for some things | 07:06 |
| alex_mayorga | jaem, total maemo n00b, sorry is there a how-to? | 07:07 |
| jaem | yep - just looking it up | 07:07 |
| jaem | there's probably a command to the bot to get the link, but I'm not familiar with it ;) | 07:07 |
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| jaem | alex: I forget where the most recent version is... and I have to go offline for a minute | 07:11 |
| jaem | I'll be back | 07:11 |
| alex_mayorga | I have an 8gb internal card but it doesn't seem to be in use at all | 07:11 |
| jaem | well, normally it uses the onboard flash for the main filesystem | 07:11 |
| alex_mayorga | !clone | 07:11 |
| jaem | your card is just for general storage | 07:11 |
| jaem | but you can clone it to the card, and boot from that instead | 07:12 |
| tonyyarusso | There must be a howto about cloning to the card somewhere, right? | 07:13 |
| alex_mayorga | this http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8631 ? | 07:14 |
| Stskeeps | jaem: straight from ubuntu hildon stuff (pimlico) | 07:17 |
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| jaem_ | alex: did you find what you were looking for? | 07:24 |
| alex_mayorga | not really found this http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=8631 not sure if that's it | 07:25 |
| jaem_ | no - the problem is that the original tool to do it isn't supported for the most recent FW version | 07:26 |
| jaem_ | and I forget what is | 07:26 |
| jaem_ | I'm a bit out of the loop | 07:26 |
| tonyyarusso | alex_mayorga: cool, thanks | 07:26 |
| alex_mayorga | tonyyarusso, might not be it | 07:27 |
| jaem_ | tony: I don't think it is | 07:27 |
| tonyyarusso | hmm | 07:27 |
| jaem_ | here we go: http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25714http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25714http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25714 | 07:28 |
| jaem_ | http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25714 * | 07:28 |
| jaem_ | that's what I wa s looking for | 07:28 |
| jaem_ | my N810 isn't back from repairs, so I haven't been able to try that method yet | 07:28 |
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| alex_mayorga | console tools doesn't seem to install on my n800 | 08:05 |
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| Phantom | Is it possible to download maemo repos snapshots via torrents ? | 09:06 |
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| Meiz_n810 | I don't know what i did wrong first time i tried KDE in Mer.. | 09:08 |
| Meiz_n810 | it works now | 09:08 |
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| Phantom | Well, maybe even usual ftp/http will do :) Somebody suggest please where I can get archived repo snapshot (official nokia's and/or from maemo.org, for diablo) | 09:14 |
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| meetpatty | anyone out there able to give me some help getting usb networking running? | 09:23 |
| timeless | phantom: it's doubtful anyone does that | 09:23 |
| timeless | do you really really need that, andif so why? | 09:24 |
| Phantom | I want to rebuild local repo. | 09:24 |
| meetpatty | 770 running mer so no wifi currently | 09:24 |
| timeless | phantom: i have an ancient mirror | 09:24 |
| timeless | but i don't see how that's better than the official repo | 09:24 |
| johnx | recursive wget maybe? | 09:25 |
| timeless | that's what i did | 09:25 |
| timeless | i still don't understand why someone would want a torrent for this purpose | 09:25 |
| Phantom | There were problems with apt and maemo repo file/directory structure looks different from debian or ubuntu. | 09:25 |
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| timeless | it seems amazingly odd | 09:25 |
| * timeless puzzles | 09:26 | |
| Phantom | I can't make sure what is the reason and wanted to build local repo and deal with it. | 09:26 |
| timeless | so, i'd probably write a web server that acted as an evil proxy | 09:26 |
| timeless | and had it remap things as needed | 09:26 |
| timeless | but it sounds like you aren't sure what's needed | 09:27 |
| lundh | just begun looking at maemo. I have an old ipaq hx4700 that I wanted to do something fun with. Can I install maemo on it somehow? | 09:27 |
| timeless | anyway, wget recursive does work | 09:27 |
| timeless | lundh: you can try mer | 09:27 |
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| lundh | mer? | 09:27 |
| timeless | you can't try a shipping version of maemo (to the extent that such a thing exists) | 09:27 |
| Phantom | I asked for torrents just because it is an easy way to get files. | 09:27 |
| timeless | ~mer | 09:27 |
| infobot | [mer] http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer | 09:27 |
| Phantom | wget -r doesn't get deb files for some reason... | 09:28 |
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| timeless | http://timeless.justdave.net/repository/ | 09:28 |
| johnx | hmm...wonder if they tweaker robots.txt... | 09:28 |
| lundh | timeless: thanks, I'll read about it :) | 09:28 |
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| timeless | you can use that url | 09:28 |
| timeless | it has a catalogue.tableteer and a repository.maemo | 09:28 |
| lundh | yeah, thanks :) | 09:28 |
| timeless | keep in mind it's 6-12months old | 09:28 |
| timeless | if you want to see the .pl files, lemme know | 09:29 |
| Phantom | I think I will try to mirror current official one with httrack. | 09:29 |
| lundh | ok, is the resolution going to be a problem. looks like all info I can find is about 800x480 screens, not 640x480 | 09:29 |
| timeless | actually, i'd be willing to describe the .pl files, but i wouldn't s hare them as is :) | 09:30 |
| Phantom | If it goes wrong I come here again :) | 09:30 |
| Phantom | btw, how much space does it takes? | 09:31 |
| Phantom | I have quotas for incoming traffic :( | 09:32 |
| timeless | 206M extras-devel/pool | 09:32 |
| timeless | 2.4G extras/pool | 09:32 |
| timeless | 342M pool/herring | 09:33 |
| timeless | 274M pool/maemo2.2 | 09:33 |
| timeless | 569M pool/maemo3.2 | 09:33 |
| timeless | 1.9G pool/maemo4.0 | 09:33 |
| timeless | 1.7M pool/maemo4.0-beta | 09:33 |
| timeless | 329M pool/os2008 | 09:33 |
| timeless | again, thesea re old numbers | 09:33 |
| timeless | but that's a general idea | 09:33 |
| timeless | so, say 10g? | 09:33 |
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| Phantom | Hmm... I see... it is big enough to not to fit into monthly quota :-/ | 09:34 |
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| timeless | again, it doesn't sound like something a normal person would do | 09:34 |
| timeless | pick an actual problem and we can try to do something | 09:35 |
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| Phantom | I have the actual problem with apt, but explanation is long enough. If I could send an e-mail that would be great. :) | 09:38 |
| timeless | timeless@gmail | 09:39 |
| johnx | write up an explanation and pastebin it? :) | 09:39 |
| johnx | does it have to do with apt getting 302 moved? | 09:39 |
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| johnx | or are you trying to use apt on a different device to download for your tablet? | 09:39 |
| timeless | fwiw, while it's true apt sucks, most things aren't so bad | 09:40 |
| * timeless has done all sorts of evil things to apt | 09:40 | |
| Phantom | No, apt on my tablet breaks after updating from just any repo. | 09:40 |
| timeless | have you tried disabling most repos? | 09:40 |
| johnx | 'breaks' as in 'borken dependencies' or 'breaks' as in 'no longer downloads' | 09:40 |
| Phantom | Yes, i discussed that problem at special forum, but it is not in english. So I would have to translate that thread anyway... | 09:41 |
| johnx | what language? | 09:42 |
| johnx | Russian? | 09:42 |
| Phantom | :) | 09:42 |
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| johnx | yeah, can't help with that :) | 09:42 |
| timeless | a wiki page might make more sense than a private email | 09:43 |
| johnx | if you drop me a link I might get a clue from the command line output though | 09:43 |
| * timeless isn't really soliciting email | 09:43 | |
| * timeless chuckles | 09:43 | |
| timeless | so, my local repo has *one* change from the 0.1.1 release | 09:43 |
| Phantom | http://n8xx.com/subject-2596-n810-diablo-problemy-menedzherom-paketov.html | 09:44 |
| Phantom | look for attachments | 09:44 |
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| johnx | funny to see what parts of the messages are localized and which aren't | 09:45 |
| Phantom | In short, it looks like apt can't process what it have downloaded. | 09:46 |
| johnx | aaah...iiiinteresting | 09:46 |
| gomiam | erm... hello. I have had this weird problem with the browser in Diablo: after keeping it running for a few days, its memory consumption goes way up. | 09:47 |
| timeless | gomiam: your device lasts a couple of days | 09:47 |
| timeless | and you're annoyed that the browser uses a lot of memory? | 09:47 |
| timeless | how hard is it for you to close the browser? | 09:47 |
| gomiam | timeless: hard enough. I usually download stories to read, and I mostly keep whatever story I'm reading in a browser window | 09:48 |
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| johnx | gomiam, html files? have you tried them with fbreader? | 09:49 |
| timeless | gomiam: and you can't use bookmarks? | 09:49 |
| johnx | timeless, but then he loses his place | 09:49 |
| * timeless tries not to sound too incredulous | 09:49 | |
| johnx | and it does sound like a memory leak ... | 09:49 |
| gomiam | johnx: yup, HTML files downloaded from websites to mmc | 09:49 |
| timeless | johnx: in code that's 2 years old | 09:50 |
| johnx | I can definitely recommend fbreader for files like that | 09:50 |
| timeless | or dead | 09:50 |
| gomiam | erm... | 09:50 |
| gomiam | hold on | 09:50 |
| timeless | i can't justify even listening to him | 09:50 |
| gomiam | perhaps I'm using a newer version and I didn't even know it | 09:50 |
| gomiam | just a second | 09:50 |
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| timeless | personally, i'd just copy a line of text as part of my bookmark title | 09:50 |
| timeless | and when i load the bookmark, i'd 'find' that line | 09:50 |
| timeless | and continue reading | 09:50 |
| hahlo | is webkit engine any better? | 09:50 |
| johnx | Phantom, my only idea is that something is wrong with the Translation-ru file and not many people have run into this problem yet. Could you maybe try switching your locale and seeing if the problem continues | 09:50 |
| gomiam | what version would 4.2008.23-14 be? | 09:51 |
| johnx | hahlo, it's 'better' in that it's in development, but my experience with Tear is that it still has memory leaks (or just high memory usage) | 09:51 |
| gomiam | ok, that would be Diablo | 09:51 |
| timeless | johnx: so his problem was catalogue.tableteer, not repostitory.maemo, right? | 09:51 |
| Phantom | I tried every repo separately. No go. | 09:52 |
| timeless | 23-14 doesn't sound like it's the latest... | 09:52 |
| gomiam | unless the control panel is acting up. By the way, timeless, how can Diablo be "two year old code"? Just wondering... | 09:52 |
| johnx | timeless, ok. I'm looking at the post. he gets an error pulling Translation-ru from tableteer. I don't understand your point though... | 09:52 |
| timeless | gomiam: we imported the browser code at a certain point | 09:53 |
| timeless | and generally didn't pull in the latest code past that point | 09:53 |
| *** TheJere has quit IRC | 09:53 | |
| timeless | that point isn't a really recent point in time now | 09:53 |
| * timeless isn't sure how long diablo has been available | 09:53 | |
| * timeless is really bad w/ math | 09:54 | |
| Phantom | So... idea #1 is to try to change locale before running apt. Is that right? | 09:54 |
| gomiam | timeless: according to my control panel, this version I have is from 2008 | 09:54 |
| timeless | phantom: it'd help the readers here :) | 09:54 |
| johnx | Phantom, yes. that's my only idea | 09:54 |
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| timeless | gomiam: what's your native language? | 09:54 |
| gomiam | timeless: spanish :) | 09:54 |
| timeless | bueno | 09:54 |
| gomiam | :) | 09:55 |
| timeless | imagina ud. un hobre que quiere translatar 'en.wikipedia.org' | 09:56 |
| Phantom | I will try this evening or tomorrow. There is no wireless network by my side right now. | 09:56 |
| gomiam | timeless: yes, I can. I have done part of that for the Spanish Wikipedia | 09:56 |
| timeless | eso hombre <download> en.wikipedia.org | 09:56 |
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| timeless | despues eso hombre entrarse un <cave> | 09:56 |
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| timeless | y. translata muchas paginas del <en.wikipedia.org> | 09:57 |
| * timeless pauses to look up a word | 09:57 | |
| gomiam | timeless: ok, I see you are really helpful | 09:57 |
| * Stskeeps ponders idly how many languages timeless knows | 09:57 | |
| gomiam | did I mangle english so bad or was it just that one sentence? | 09:57 |
| timeless | al mismo tiempo | 09:57 |
| gomiam | Stskeeps: I would guess one... badly | 09:58 |
| timeless | muchas hombres cambian muchas muchas paginas del en.wikipedia.org | 09:58 |
| timeless | sts: ignoring computer languages | 09:58 |
| timeless | i studied spanish for 4 years, ASL for a year, hebrew for ~3 years | 09:58 |
| timeless | some russian, some finnish, and i've picked up pieces of french/italian | 09:59 |
| jaem | woah | 09:59 |
| jaem | that's rather impressive | 09:59 |
| timeless | and i can bug check a dozen languages | 09:59 |
| jaem | I can read some French, and that's all | 09:59 |
| jaem | lol | 09:59 |
| timeless | oh, Soy un americano | 09:59 |
| gomiam | timeless: lamento decirte que tu español aún necesita pulirse un poco :) | 09:59 |
| timeless | gomaim: sorry, ... contiuarse... | 09:59 |
| Stskeeps | my primary language is danish (+ swedish/norwegian understanding), secondary english (taught) and then i have been taught german and french :P | 10:00 |
| Stskeeps | .. and gf trying to teach me polish atm | 10:00 |
| timeless | el primer hombre tiene un viejo copia del <en.wikipedia.org> | 10:00 |
| johnx | I know English and bad English :D | 10:00 |
| gomiam | timeless: are you using Google's translator, perhaps? | 10:01 |
| timeless | durante esta vez, | 10:01 |
| timeless | gomiam: not in general | 10:01 |
| timeless | my spanish is 10 years rusty | 10:01 |
| gomiam | ah, ok | 10:01 |
| timeless | there's no point in me using google translator | 10:02 |
| timeless | i could write this in English and make you do that | 10:02 |
| timeless | the point is to express a problem in my aged spanish | 10:02 |
| timeless | i am looking up some words, because my spanish dictionar is ~5,000 miles away | 10:02 |
| * BugBlue talks nederlands, english, deutsch, francais, afrikaans, friesk, polski (a bit), svenska (a bit) | 10:02 | |
| timeless | or 10 years, whichever | 10:02 |
| timeless | s/talks/speaks/ | 10:02 |
| timeless | unless you're saying what you babble isn't worth considering 'speach' | 10:03 |
| BugBlue | no speaking is meaning that you know what you say :P | 10:03 |
| timeless | err speech | 10:03 |
| * timeless isghs | 10:03 | |
| * timeless ,.,m | 10:03 | |
| BugBlue | that's very rare for me :P | 10:03 |
| Stskeeps | multifail | 10:03 |
| * timeless looks for a peach | 10:03 | |
| gomiam | timeless: I understand that. I can't see the relation with Wikipedia, though. Anyway, I'll shut the browser down from time to time. | 10:03 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, in the unreal tournament announcer voice? | 10:03 |
| * timeless pleads hunger | 10:04 | |
| Stskeeps | johnx: i actually never played UT | 10:04 |
| timeless | gomiam: so... | 10:04 |
| timeless | the idea is that a guy downloads a copy of something 'big' | 10:04 |
| timeless | and spends a lot of time 'translating' it | 10:04 |
| timeless | while he's translating his *downloaded* copy | 10:04 |
| timeless | the real version changes | 10:04 |
| timeless | if he downloaded it a year ago | 10:04 |
| timeless | and has been translating that copy for a year | 10:04 |
| timeless | the real thing has been changing for that entire year | 10:05 |
| johnx | gomiam, the rendering engine used in the N810's browser was branched from firefox a long time ago | 10:05 |
| timeless | which means even though he could deliver his translated version 'today' | 10:05 |
| timeless | and claim it's a 'new' translation | 10:05 |
| timeless | it's in fact a new translation of something very old | 10:05 |
| gomiam | johnx: then it would had been much simpler to tell me, "sorry, it's an old version and it's not supported any more". I would keep dealing with it and that would be it. | 10:05 |
| timeless | i can't say that | 10:05 |
| timeless | well | 10:06 |
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| timeless | for one, i did say that it didn't look like you had the latest version of diablo | 10:06 |
| timeless | i could be wrong | 10:06 |
| * timeless is bad w/ versions | 10:06 | |
| timeless | but diablo is the latest supported product | 10:06 |
| timeless | there's nothing released that's newer | 10:06 |
| timeless | what is the latest diablo version? :) | 10:06 |
| johnx | 43-x | 10:06 |
| Stskeeps | http://xkcd.com/541/ <- this is a -real- problem with language on internet. | 10:07 |
| timeless | gomiam: so... first, you should switch to 43-x | 10:07 |
| timeless | it's unfair to everyone else here to use an old version of diablo | 10:07 |
| timeless | but keep in mind, that it probably won't fix any specific problem | 10:07 |
| timeless | it's not a magic pill | 10:07 |
| timeless | it's just that.... memory leaks are hopefully fixed already | 10:07 |
| doc|home | Stskeeps: pffft, definitely the latter. No question. | 10:08 |
| johnx | heh | 10:08 |
| timeless | or might be in code we won't use in the next version | 10:08 |
| gomiam | timeless: that's interesting. I'm supposed to have 23-4 but no updates show up. | 10:08 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, I tend to use a smiley, then a space, then an end-parens | 10:08 |
| timeless | gomiam: i don't remember which version offered over the air updates | 10:08 |
| timeless | some required a reflash | 10:09 |
| timeless | anyone other than me would know :) | 10:09 |
| johnx | timeless, from the first diablo release updates were by SSU | 10:09 |
| gomiam | and, for example, I have osso-dsp-modules-rx44 installed already :) | 10:09 |
| timeless | the rx44 is a hardware version | 10:09 |
| * gomiam checks browser version... | 10:09 | |
| timeless | we don't update hardware over the air | 10:09 |
| Stskeeps | gomiam: chinook latter had that | 10:09 |
| Stskeeps | i think | 10:09 |
| timeless | too heavy for the pigeons | 10:09 |
| Stskeeps | (rx-44 is n810) | 10:09 |
| jaem | timeless: is SSU using RFC 1149, then? | 10:09 |
| timeless | jaem: we have to support it! | 10:10 |
| jaem | with or without QoS? | 10:10 |
| * timeless presumes gomiam missed that reference | 10:10 | |
| timeless | jaem: definitely w/o | 10:10 |
| gomiam | timeless: the IP over Avian Carrier RFC? No, I didn't miss it ;) | 10:11 |
| Stskeeps | heh... danish bike rider got run over by a truck, and before he died he asked for a cola | 10:11 |
| Stskeeps | that's hardcore | 10:11 |
| jaem | I wondered why MIT's tech model railroad club never (to my knowledge) did IP over Model Train | 10:11 |
| gomiam | anyway, I don't have African swallows around to carry it, so it's a moot point. | 10:11 |
| timeless | well, given our source is Finland, i'd assume they were European, not African | 10:11 |
| gomiam | timeless: but European Swallowds are smaller :P | 10:12 |
| timeless | Auuuuuuuugh! | 10:12 |
| Mousey | laden or unladen? | 10:12 |
| gomiam | s/Swallowds/Swallows/ | 10:12 |
| infobot | gomiam meant: timeless: but European Swallows are smaller :P | 10:12 |
| gomiam | Mousey: in any case, I think. | 10:12 |
| timeless | gomiam: as i said, too heavy | 10:12 |
| gomiam | timeless: perhaps if you put four of them to carry it together... | 10:13 |
| gomiam | :D | 10:13 |
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| timeless | anyway, sorry, sometimes it's easier to try switching explanations out of a realm when it seems like the natural domain isn't well understood | 10:13 |
| jaem | I wonder if my tracking number would work if they'd sent my N810 back by pidgeon, instead of UPS | 10:13 |
| sp3000 | perhaps not if you fracment the packet enough | 10:13 |
| sp3000 | fragment even | 10:13 |
| timeless | some assembly required? | 10:13 |
| johnx | heh | 10:14 |
| sp3000 | ikea tablets? | 10:14 |
| jaem | I hope not | 10:14 |
| johnx | I want my GPS update for my N800 | 10:14 |
| gomiam | would some kind soul please tell me what's the latest version for the Diablo browser? | 10:14 |
| johnx | gomiam, whatever comes with the 43-7 SSU. do you need just the browser version? | 10:14 |
| timeless | gomiam: everything we've released of late has been as part of a system wide package | 10:15 |
| timeless | johnx: the browser version is often not bumped properly | 10:15 |
| timeless | so it's pointless :) | 10:15 |
| timeless | its calculation is also mostly "strange" | 10:15 |
| timeless | since it thinks that the date it was compiled is somehow relevant | 10:15 |
| jaem | isn't it? | 10:16 |
| jaem | it's birthday? | 10:16 |
| timeless | check out code in 2000 and build it in 2010 and it'll give a different number :) | 10:16 |
| gomiam | johnx: since I don't know whether I can rely on the information shown at "About this product", I wanted so indirect method of knowing if I'm up to date. | 10:16 |
| timeless | s/it's/its/ | 10:16 |
| gomiam | s/so /some / | 10:16 |
| infobot | gomiam meant: johnx: since I don't know whether I can rely on the information shown at "About this product", I wanted some indirect method of knowing if I'm up to date. | 10:16 |
| timeless | cat /etc/osso_software_version | 10:16 |
| johnx | you should be able to trust that info | 10:16 |
| gomiam | oh, forgot that. | 10:16 |
| timeless | but about should be trustworthy | 10:16 |
| timeless | minus any strange spelling errors that may be present | 10:16 |
| timeless | or inconsistencies between (c) and © | 10:17 |
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| timeless | someone actually complained about that this weekend! | 10:17 |
| jaem | night | 10:18 |
| gomiam | now this is funny... I have no /etc/osso_software_version | 10:18 |
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| timeless | osso_software_release ? | 10:18 |
| * timeless is typing from memory | 10:19 | |
| gomiam | neither | 10:19 |
| gomiam | I'm going to "find /etc -name \*osso\*" just in case :) | 10:19 |
| timeless | my n800 has an /etc/osso_software_version | 10:20 |
| timeless | what did you do to your poor n800? | 10:20 |
| gomiam | I think I did nothing unusual to it | 10:20 |
| gomiam | it might have had some update problems, though. | 10:20 |
| * gomiam checks more... | 10:20 | |
| johnx | yeah... update problems around 23-whatever sound somewhat familiar | 10:21 |
| gomiam | ok, it seems I don't have osso-software-version installed. Connecting to install osso-software-version-rx34 ... | 10:22 |
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| timeless | do you have an n800 or n810? | 10:22 |
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| gomiam | 800 | 10:22 |
| timeless | righ | 10:22 |
| timeless | that's because those pigeons never delivered the rx44 hardware update | 10:22 |
| timeless | over the air updates are limited to softwqare | 10:23 |
| timeless | s/q// | 10:23 |
| infobot | timeless meant: over the air updates are limited to software | 10:23 |
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| timeless | sp3000: so... | 10:23 |
| Stskeeps | tablet subscriptions..mmm | 10:23 |
| timeless | i need a script which um.... | 10:23 |
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| timeless | given output from a diff decides to munge foo/debian/changelog | 10:24 |
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| *** gomiam1 is now known as gomiam | 10:24 | |
| timeless | sts: sounds like a good revenue model | 10:24 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, sign up here. just $50 / week directly to me gets you a new tablet whenever one is released :> | 10:24 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 10:24 |
| Stskeeps | i'm sure someone would catch :P | 10:25 |
| gomiam | sorry, pulled the wrong cable O:-) | 10:25 |
| timeless | johnx: hey, have you been to teh vertu store? | 10:25 |
| johnx | where is it? | 10:25 |
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| * johnx googles | 10:26 | |
| Stskeeps | johnx: oh, did you see Bundyo in some strange way managed to forward port 770's cx3110x to a modern kernel? | 10:26 |
| timeless | odd | 10:26 |
| johnx | !! | 10:26 |
| timeless | we announced a vertu.jp | 10:26 |
| johnx | holy craps | 10:26 |
| johnx | in Ginza, huh | 10:26 |
| timeless | http://www.vertu.com/jp/ | 10:26 |
| johnx | opens on feb 19th? | 10:26 |
| johnx | yes, I exist in your future...but not actually that far ahead contrary to popular beliefe | 10:27 |
| timeless | it's at the corner of %#!@$ and $#%# | 10:27 |
| johnx | heh | 10:27 |
| johnx | in Ginza, Tokyo | 10:27 |
| gomiam | ok, I see. osso-software-version-rx34 won't install because it depends on some packages to be installed with old versions | 10:27 |
| timeless | i'd give a link, but the page is 100% flash | 10:27 |
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| johnx | yeah | 10:28 |
| johnx | and seems to be form over function | 10:28 |
| johnx | how uniquely suitable :> | 10:28 |
| timeless | thankfully 'store' is in English until you hover over it | 10:28 |
| gomiam | so I guess I'll have to download them and install them by hand. | 10:28 |
| timeless | johnx: you can buy a phone for 100,000 EUR iirc | 10:28 |
| timeless | or was it USD | 10:28 |
| johnx | gomiam, ah. that would explain it. I would let it downgrade if I were you | 10:29 |
| timeless | http://www.helsinkitimes.fi/htimes/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=5179:nokia-to-launch-luxury-brand-vertu-mvno-in-japan&catid=15:finland-in-the-world-press&Itemid=161 | 10:29 |
| gomiam | johnx: yup. And I just found how to tell apt-get to install a specific version, too. | 10:29 |
| johnx | you probably got something from another repo that had a higher version than Nokia uses | 10:29 |
| timeless | oh brother | 10:29 |
| timeless | the article was stolen from wpost.com | 10:29 |
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| timeless | www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/01/27/AR2009012700823.html | 10:30 |
| timeless | should be the original article | 10:30 |
| johnx | wow...that website basically sums up the the whole vertu experience | 10:30 |
| timeless | helsinki times or the flash one? | 10:31 |
| johnx | the vertu flash website | 10:31 |
| timeless | anyway, if you can visit the store for opening day | 10:31 |
| timeless | it sounds like it could be amusing | 10:31 |
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| timeless | if it were a us store, they'd give something away | 10:31 |
| timeless | heck, even here in HEL i've been to openings w/ giveaways | 10:31 |
| Stskeeps | N810W surplus? :P | 10:31 |
| johnx | there will be lines. around the block | 10:31 |
| timeless | johnx: send pictures | 10:32 |
| johnx | there was an hour plus line at crispy creme in kawasaki | 10:32 |
| johnx | on 'gurando open' day | 10:32 |
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| wazd | hello everybody) | 10:34 |
| gomiam | ok, running a big bunch of upgrades that were hanging on osso...rx34 | 10:34 |
| johnx | hi | 10:34 |
| timeless | http://jimmynjapan.blogspot.com/2008/11/krispy-kreme-in-kawasaki.html | 10:35 |
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| timeless | your spelling of krispy kreme stumped google | 10:35 |
| johnx | heh | 10:35 |
| johnx | whatever. it's a US thing (or *was* a US thing) | 10:35 |
| Stskeeps | morning wazd | 10:35 |
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| johnx | so let's see: Who thinks I should visit the Vertu store on opening day just to take pictures of the insane lines that will be there | 10:39 |
| timeless | sp3000? | 10:39 |
| timeless | i think something ate my homework | 10:40 |
| gomiam | timeless: "something" not being your dog, I guess :) | 10:40 |
| timeless | i don't have a dog | 10:40 |
| timeless | i do have a mer and an rsync | 10:40 |
| Stskeeps | mer steals your wife, not your homework | 10:40 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 10:40 |
| timeless | i don't have one of those either | 10:40 |
| timeless | or did you mean 'life'? | 10:41 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 10:41 |
| Stskeeps | life may qualify | 10:41 |
| timeless | right | 10:41 |
| timeless | so um | 10:41 |
| gomiam | timeless: no dog? Then... cat? parrot? pet corruption dragon of Tzeench? ;) | 10:41 |
| johnx | same idea, different form factor | 10:41 |
| Stskeeps | tablets and wives? | 10:41 |
| timeless | gomiam: that last one sounds interesting | 10:41 |
| johnx | heh...a little restaurant that calls itself vertu seems to occupy the top of the search results around Ginza. might be hard for people to find this "Vertu phone" store :> | 10:42 |
| timeless | heh | 10:43 |
| gomiam | timeless: sorry, I had to hook up on a neighbour's connection on Saturday night to let some friends watch the new trailer for some Warhammer Fantasy computer game, and I think that was the name of the big ugly thing that showed up at the end :) | 10:43 |
| timeless | ah | 10:43 |
| * timeless returns to not understanding where the homework went | 10:43 | |
| johnx | I have the strangest feeling that the planning for this "Vertu phone" store was handled by Europeans ... | 10:43 |
| timeless | timeless@swift:~/translate% diff -u .zfs/snapshot/release-0.1.1 .|grep -v ^Common|wc -l | 10:44 |
| timeless | 0 | 10:44 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: there's no obligatory hello kitty posters? | 10:44 |
| timeless | johnx: what gave you that idea? | 10:44 |
| timeless | :) | 10:44 |
| timeless | oh no! | 10:44 |
| * timeless cries | 10:44 | |
| johnx | lack of a usable map, no place in the search results, *a website that can't be used on a mobile phone* | 10:44 |
| timeless | johnx: hrm | 10:45 |
| timeless | www.skyfire.com | 10:45 |
| timeless | what happens if you load that in your mobile? | 10:45 |
| johnx | that's for winmo and S60 right? | 10:45 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: exclusive phones for those who own expensive laptops? :P | 10:45 |
| timeless | well, i've only used it on s60 | 10:45 |
| timeless | i was wondering if it supported whatever you had | 10:46 |
| gomiam | Stskeeps: Hello Kitty? http://www.exlibrismortis.org/ExLibrisnewSistersArmy.html (yeah, yeah, I've been around Warhammer players too much time) | 10:46 |
| johnx | keep in mind: opera mini is the high end of mobile browsers here | 10:46 |
| johnx | I'll try it on my phone's included browser first | 10:46 |
| timeless | sts; no, exclusive phones for people w/ personal assistants and chauffeurs | 10:46 |
| Stskeeps | i would love opera mini on tablets. | 10:46 |
| Stskeeps | ok, am i odd for wondering where the heck the maemo5 beagleboard on fosdem is on p.m.o and iTT? | 10:48 |
| Stskeeps | zip null mentioned :P | 10:48 |
| johnx | unknown phone model | 10:48 |
| Myrtti | graah. | 10:48 |
| Stskeeps | Myrtti: your leg(?) better? | 10:48 |
| Myrtti | marginally | 10:49 |
| timeless | sts: the nokian who presented probably isn't on pmo | 10:49 |
| timeless | we could bug him | 10:49 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: well normally there's a small bunch of fanboys ;) | 10:49 |
| timeless | fanboys don't go to real tech conferences like fosdem :) | 10:49 |
| Stskeeps | true | 10:50 |
| Stskeeps | what are gnubies then? ;) | 10:50 |
| johnx | back in ~30 minutes | 10:50 |
| Stskeeps | hf | 10:50 |
| * timeless is amused by a conversation among localizers | 10:51 | |
| Stskeeps | timeless: 'timeless is more effective than 10 of us'? | 10:51 |
| timeless | wrong context, this is hg | 10:52 |
| timeless | translate "hook" => es | 10:52 |
| timeless | "script de enganche" | 10:52 |
| timeless | > Ironically, "script" is another imported term without translation | 10:52 |
| timeless | > (the correct one would be "guisn de enganche"). | 10:52 |
| timeless | (note: my irc client eats accents, that should be gui['o]n) | 10:53 |
| timeless | btw, sts? | 10:53 |
| timeless | http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer | 10:53 |
| timeless | black text on dark blue background... | 10:54 |
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| timeless | isn't what one would typically call 'readable' | 10:54 |
| gomiam | interesting, now apt-dist-upgrade wants me to remove busybox... and complains about it being dangerous. | 10:55 |
| timeless | um | 10:55 |
| timeless | "don't do that" | 10:55 |
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| timeless | you have the wrong repos enabled | 10:55 |
| timeless | fix it | 10:55 |
| gomiam | timeless: I won't :) Last time I did I had to reflash XD | 10:55 |
| timeless | iirc you have sdk | 10:56 |
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| gomiam | I guess it's time to shut down all the non-basic repos and see if it still complains | 10:57 |
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| StsN801 | timeless, yeah its a bit odd | 11:02 |
| * tonyyarusso waves at the Myrtti here too | 11:02 | |
| * StsN801 tries to figure out how he managed to get out of bed and on to the bus | 11:03 | |
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| gomiam | StsN801: it's a conspiracy, I tell you. | 11:04 |
| sp3000 | if you find out, let me know | 11:04 |
| timeless | sp3000: error, cafeine not found | 11:04 |
| * timeless tried to do diff instead of diff -r | 11:04 | |
| StsN801 | why does maemo gtk do funny things with the enter key btw? is it cos it would launch finger kbd normally? | 11:06 |
| timeless | yes | 11:06 |
| StsN801 | lovely | 11:07 |
| StsN801 | so enter on rx44 is mapped to what | 11:07 |
| StsN801 | ? | 11:07 |
| timeless | i think the middle button in the square for up/right/down/left | 11:07 |
| timeless | triggers one of enter/return | 11:07 |
| timeless | and the keyboard thing on rx44 triggers the one that isn't enter/return | 11:07 |
| StsN801 | heh | 11:08 |
| timeless | i hope you don't expect me to be able to keep them straight! :) | 11:08 |
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| mgedmin | one is Return, one is KP_Return, iirc | 11:08 |
| gomiam | interesting: if I add repository.maemo.org (diablo), apt-get dist-upgrade will try to uninstall osso-software-version-rx34 | 11:08 |
| timeless | only diablo? | 11:09 |
| gomiam | (as it depends on packages for which there seems to be a newer version) | 11:09 |
| timeless | no other repos? | 11:09 |
| StsN801 | mgedmin, ta | 11:09 |
| gomiam | timeless: hold on while I check current sources.list | 11:10 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: KP_Enter | 11:10 |
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| StsN801 | bergs the next q.. wtf does usb keyboard people use? | 11:10 |
| StsN801 | begs | 11:10 |
| RST38h | mgedmin: also known as the second most annoying keyboard feature after the one where Fn keys were mapped to hardware buttons | 11:10 |
| timeless | rst38h: personally i consider the Fn key thing less annoying | 11:11 |
| timeless | that i have to use ctrl-j in mer in vmware | 11:11 |
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| timeless | is really really annoying | 11:11 |
| timeless | sp3000: right... | 11:12 |
| timeless | so i need that version bumping script | 11:12 |
| StsN801 | dch? | 11:12 |
| timeless | or should i just bump all the packages | 11:13 |
| timeless | since i've changed 30/64 | 11:13 |
| gomiam | timeless: I currently have catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/{certified,non-certified,updates/diablo-2} and repository.maemo.org/extras, all on diablo. If I remove the extras repo, apt-get dist-upgrade finds nothing to upgrade. When I add extras it will try to bump osso-software-version-rx34 to upgrade libdb4.2 | 11:13 |
| timeless | stsn801: my host isn't debian based | 11:13 |
| timeless | and i'm not going to run dch 30 times | 11:13 |
| gomiam | where I typed "bump", I meant "remove" | 11:14 |
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| StsN801 | timeless, ah, it has non-interactive too so i script once in a while | 11:14 |
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| StsN801 | wb | 11:20 |
| johnx | thanks. great to be here | 11:20 |
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| gomiam | johnx: will you be here all week? ;) | 11:22 |
| johnx | yup | 11:22 |
| johnx | remember to tip your waitress | 11:22 |
| gomiam | last time I tipped her, she fell down with a lot of glasses. I won't try that again | 11:23 |
| gomiam | getting hit by a tray hurts. | 11:24 |
| gomiam | s/by/with/ | 11:24 |
| infobot | gomiam meant: getting hit with a tray hurts. | 11:24 |
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| johnx | either one is fine :) | 11:25 |
| RST38h | moo johnx | 11:26 |
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| johnx | m00f | 11:26 |
| gomiam | damn it. I lost my keyboard configurations so I can't type > again. Oh well, time to change it again... | 11:28 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:30 |
| gomiam | where were the keymaps stored? /usr/share/something? | 11:30 |
| mgedmin | X11 something | 11:30 |
| mgedmin | either /usr/lib, or /usr/share | 11:30 |
| mgedmin | might be X11R6 | 11:30 |
| mgedmin | and xkb inside that | 11:31 |
| wazd | RST38h: moo, Ti86 is ready | 11:31 |
| mgedmin | /usr/share/X11/xkb/ | 11:31 |
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| gomiam | thanks | 11:31 |
| Stskeeps | my office, woo. :P | 11:42 |
| wazd | RST38h: http://i003.radikal.ru/0902/8d/b1d3edc1c1ac.png | 11:43 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Oh yesss | 11:47 |
| RST38h | wazd: it had TABLE instead of STAT though | 11:47 |
| wazd | RST38h:ah, missed it | 11:49 |
| RST38h | wazd: also the 2nd key was bright yellow, I think | 11:50 |
| wazd | RST38h: anything else? | 11:50 |
| RST38h | oh, ti85 also had it bright yellow | 11:51 |
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| RST38h | wazd: arrow keys were smaller, with more space between them: http://www.geocities.com/athens/thebes/5118/scicalc/fig/ti86.jpg | 11:52 |
| wazd | RST38h: yes, but they will be difficult so use in that layout :( | 11:52 |
| wazd | RST38h: so I had to make them larger | 11:52 |
| RST38h | oh | 11:52 |
| RST38h | I think the only very minor thing I can still see there is that the capital "PI" is used, the one usually used for a product of a sequence | 11:53 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, I'll try to make them smaller | 11:53 |
| RST38h | nah, I guess if it is difficult to make them smaller retaining the same layout then there is no reason to try | 11:54 |
| RST38h | I would stil fix PI on both ti85 and ti86 layouts though | 11:54 |
| RST38h | (btw, fixed display colors/contrast in 1.0.1 release, and swapped red/blue back) | 11:55 |
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| * Stskeeps updates his old MerTV setup. | 12:10 | |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: MerTV? | 12:19 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/DSC00007.JPG <- old installation | 12:20 |
| Stskeeps | just got my test setup back from the local architect so :P | 12:20 |
| hahlo | btw does android run on internet tablets? | 12:23 |
| Stskeeps | yes, it does, nitdroid | 12:23 |
| hahlo | cool must try that | 12:23 |
| Stskeeps | it's kinda freaky to see maemo mapper on a tv though | 12:27 |
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| wazd | RST38h: http://i046.radikal.ru/0902/49/0642a6b3d2ad.png | 12:31 |
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| Corsac | hmhm, what is the most convenient way to sync contacts and calendars from/to a phone/computer on a n810? | 12:35 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Yep. That's it! | 12:40 |
| RST38h | wazd: going to try booting ti86 tonight, if I have time =) | 12:40 |
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| wazd | RST38h: cool :) | 12:42 |
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| RST38h | http://www.flickr.com/photos/greentroll2008/3254857591/sizes/l/in/set-72157613387083704/ | 12:48 |
| Macer | http://www.mini-box.com/Mini-Box-M300-LCD | 12:49 |
| Macer | that seems interesting | 12:49 |
| RST38h | it is a VIA based little box | 12:50 |
| RST38h | so? | 12:50 |
| Macer | dual 1.6GHz atom | 12:51 |
| Macer | w/ PCI slot | 12:51 |
| Macer | 1 silent fan on the cpu.. no psu fan | 12:51 |
| Macer | totally quiet | 12:51 |
| RST38h | it will not do well as an HTPC (too slow) | 12:51 |
| Macer | well. not for hd | 12:52 |
| RST38h | it will not work as a mobile device (not pocketable) | 12:52 |
| Macer | but i really just wanted something very quiet that can run ;) | 12:52 |
| RST38h | Macer: There is plenty of choices | 12:52 |
| Macer | http://www.mini-box.com/VoomPC-2-Car-PC-Barebone-Intel?sc=8&category=12 | 12:52 |
| Macer | that's high class ghetto | 12:52 |
| Macer | something like that would be good if you had a usb utms modem i suppsoe | 12:53 |
| RST38h | Macer: I would personally go with Shuttle | 12:53 |
| Macer | i got a shuttle | 12:53 |
| Macer | KPC K45 | 12:53 |
| RST38h | And? | 12:53 |
| Macer | the psu fan died in it.. which was a total piece of grinding shit to begin with | 12:53 |
| Macer | so now i'm waiting for a picoPSU to replace it because you can't find a fucking replacement anywhere! | 12:53 |
| RST38h | Is it an AMD based model? | 12:53 |
| Macer | intel | 12:53 |
| RST38h | because the fan failed? | 12:54 |
| RST38h | hmmm | 12:54 |
| Macer | 775 | 12:54 |
| Macer | yes... because the fan failed | 12:54 |
| Macer | now i could have done a couple of things to repair it... | 12:54 |
| Macer | like bought a new fan and have to SOLDER pins onto the psu after ripping the old one out | 12:54 |
| Macer | sent it into newegg for a rma replacement | 12:54 |
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| Macer | or get a picoPSU for it.. which i did | 12:55 |
| Macer | but either way it goes.. the psu it comes with is a total piece of shit | 12:55 |
| Macer | you can tell they KNEW they were going to break when they built them.. but they sent them out anyways with all the fucked up fans and poor psu cooling | 12:55 |
| Macer | (made in china) | 12:56 |
| RST38h | it is all made in china anyway | 12:57 |
| Macer | which is why it all sucks and is shitty | 12:57 |
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| Macer | i built a pc a long time ago ... i went out of my way to make sure that most of the parts came from here... got a supermicro board... fans built by US companies... etc | 12:58 |
| * RST38h wonders if there are any US companies left | 12:58 | |
| Macer | it's been running 12 years without a problem.. i think the only thing i've done to it since is move it into a case | 12:58 |
| Macer | made in china shuttle K45 | 12:59 |
| Macer | lasted 5 months | 12:59 |
| Macer | :) | 12:59 |
| soap | They build it to the specs demanded of them. I rather think the locale of manufacture has no direct bearing on the construction quality, rather is indicative of the level of money willing to be spent by the manufacturer. | 12:59 |
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| Macer | soap: i suppose.. but whether you want to believe it or not.. actual american made products are usually of higher quality than made in china | 12:59 |
| Macer | whether it be the fact that it is not made in a sweatshop | 13:00 |
| glass | my nad amplifier i bought for the subwoofer is made in china too.. transformer is from sweden though.. or at least swedish design | 13:00 |
| RST38h | soap: Shuttle is a .TW company | 13:00 |
| Macer | or for whichever reasons... china just pushes out a lot ... at very low quality | 13:00 |
| glass | at good quality too | 13:00 |
| RST38h | Macer: Say what you wish, but Chinese will basically build it as well as you pay for | 13:01 |
| Macer | RST38h: i suppose... but they are used to low pricing | 13:01 |
| Macer | and not higher quality | 13:01 |
| Macer | they are the nasa of the production world... always take the lowest bid :) | 13:01 |
| RST38h | Macer: Of course - because they get better margins and volumes on low-priced items | 13:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, http://flickr.com/photos/generalantilles/2454546033/ :P | 13:01 |
| Macer | but i suppose supply and demand | 13:01 |
| Macer | oversupply with quick and cheap parts that can be easily replaced in order to keep price down and demand up | 13:02 |
| Macer | how far the chinese have come :) | 13:02 |
| glass | they're the new japan, nothing new in that | 13:02 |
| RST38h | Exactly. In other words, it is not Chinese, but *you* to blame =) | 13:02 |
| Macer | RST38h: sure is ;) | 13:02 |
| Macer | haha | 13:03 |
| RST38h | You want electronics cheaper? Here is cheaper electronics for you. | 13:03 |
| Macer | that's it.. no more chinese parts for me | 13:03 |
| glass | haha | 13:03 |
| glass | good luck trying to live your life | 13:03 |
| RST38h | Macer: Going back to the stone age? ;) | 13:03 |
| Macer | but the US doesn't seem to have any more places that produce these sort of things | 13:03 |
| Macer | RST38h: yeah.. i guess so | 13:03 |
| Macer | no more china! | 13:03 |
| glass | Macer: and even when they do it's assembled from parts from china haha.. | 13:04 |
| Macer | glass: i know :) | 13:04 |
| Macer | it's a no win situation | 13:04 |
| Macer | DAMN YOU FREE TRADE!! | 13:04 |
| glass | well, buy quality designed and from brands that keep a quality assurance to your liking | 13:04 |
| Macer | we need to bring back the tariffs | 13:04 |
| soap | yea, lowering everyone's standard of living through imposed decision making for you work well. | 13:05 |
| * RST38h wonders why Macer hasn't mentioned the a-bomb so far | 13:05 | |
| Macer | glass: yeah.. i think i'm just going to shell out the money for my next build | 13:05 |
| Macer | lol... what about the a-bomb? | 13:05 |
| glass | Macer: remember that shelling out money is not a sure win either :) | 13:05 |
| RST38h | I mean, isn't it the obvious solution for his problem? =) | 13:05 |
| Macer | no | 13:05 |
| Macer | we need china to buy our food ;) | 13:05 |
| glass | Macer: lots of brands are just the same chinese shit you could buy from the chinese straight | 13:05 |
| Macer | glass: yeah. like a shuttle kpc k45 | 13:06 |
| Macer | haha | 13:06 |
| Macer | i suppose i could have bought the cheap chinese mini itx case they use and a fucked up psu from whatever sweatshop they make them in | 13:06 |
| RST38h | Macer: That has been tried by the British, don't you know? | 13:06 |
| Macer | what has? | 13:07 |
| RST38h | Macer: Selling food to chinese | 13:07 |
| RST38h | Macer: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Opium_Wars | 13:07 |
| Macer | HAHAH | 13:07 |
| Macer | i meant actual food | 13:08 |
| Macer | not food replacement :) | 13:08 |
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| glass | food replacement is better | 13:08 |
| Macer | like the monkey that has to choose between the bananna or the cocaine | 13:08 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: hehe | 13:08 |
| Macer | i want to find the study where they did that | 13:08 |
| Macer | either the monkey eats or uses | 13:09 |
| Macer | :) | 13:09 |
| Macer | it's interesting.. like the spiders on all the drugs making webs | 13:09 |
| Macer | i think the lsd spider was the most fucked up | 13:09 |
| glass | but which of the spiders was having most fun? | 13:09 |
| Macer | the lsd spider | 13:09 |
| soap | so what you're saying is: in a very price sensitive market, where people will make purchasing decisions based on savings of $10 or less, there is pressure on the manufactures to build it as cheap as possible with little regard to quality? Whodda thunk it? | 13:09 |
| Macer | haha | 13:09 |
| Macer | soap: sad but true :) | 13:09 |
| glass | it's not sad | 13:10 |
| glass | thats why your shuttle cost something instead of costing 3-5x | 13:10 |
| Macer | i think now i'd rather have paid 3-5x for something that wouldn't break in 5 months ;) | 13:10 |
| glass | really? | 13:10 |
| Macer | yes | 13:10 |
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| glass | why didn't you buy 5 shuttles? | 13:11 |
| Macer | wanted to test 1 out first | 13:11 |
| Macer | figured it might be a good server solution if it actually worked well.. lasted 5 months :) | 13:11 |
| Macer | put that on the "no" list | 13:11 |
| soap | the only sad part about it is that the majority tends to remove options for the minority as (despite some pop-econ musings) there is little profit in manufacturing for the long tail. | 13:12 |
| Macer | amazingly small.. pci slot... lga 775 so you can put a pretty strong cpu in it.. 2G ram... 2 sata ports and and ide port | 13:12 |
| glass | Macer: it's an eycandy desktop, not a server replacement :D | 13:12 |
| Macer | no.. i don't think it was marketed as a desktop replacement | 13:12 |
| Macer | i think they specifically wanted these to be used as small business servers | 13:13 |
| soap | in that so long as the majority of the market is hyper price sensitive, the manufactures have little financial incentive to build for the less price-sensitive. Most the non-PS products you see are actually aimed at the next largest demographic - the technical voodists - see "audiophile" products. | 13:13 |
| Macer | especially when you consider it can run esxi ;) | 13:13 |
| Macer | hahaha | 13:14 |
| Macer | yeah i suppose so | 13:14 |
| Macer | but ... considering the cost.... you just have to produce less and make the same | 13:14 |
| soap | ahh, assuming linear cost structures, which don't exist. | 13:14 |
| Macer | true | 13:14 |
| Macer | it sure doesn't :) | 13:15 |
| glass | some products don't get any better if you throw money at them either | 13:15 |
| glass | like bt dongles | 13:15 |
| soap | the economies of scale are so vast that a "quality" TV would cost disproportionately more than a "cheap" one. | 13:15 |
| glass | cheap tv's are pretty good quality nowadays compared to expensive tv's just few years ago | 13:15 |
| Macer | less demand in raw materials | 13:16 |
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| Macer | price drops everywhere | 13:16 |
| soap | well bt dongles are rather unique in that they were designed from the specification stage to be made with as few parts as possible and for those parts to be ICs with a minimal number of discrete components attached. | 13:16 |
| Macer | better chinese patent infringment :) | 13:16 |
| soap | Cheap TVs today tend to have undersized caps and underspecified ones at that, one of the few places where you can save money. | 13:17 |
| Macer | there is one thing that i'll give china credit for | 13:17 |
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| Macer | the popcorn hour network media tank | 13:17 |
| Macer | :) | 13:17 |
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| Macer | i think i've gotten my bank for my buck out of that thing.. even though the first one broke in 3 months due to cheap chinese soldering of the power connector onto the mainboard | 13:18 |
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| Macer | but it's ok.. 2 months later i received my replacement mainboard | 13:18 |
| soap | I just replaced the PSU caps on my DVD player as two of them had blown. In this Philips they were undersized from day one. Spent $3 at Radioshack to use better-than-stock parts. | 13:18 |
| Macer | i think they were able to squeeze my mainboard in by kicking one of the refugees out of the container | 13:18 |
| Macer | bbl | 13:19 |
| Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: you mixed KDE and H-D? | 13:20 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Goddamn | 13:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Of course the vnc server tz uploaded is totally broken. | 13:28 |
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| * Stskeeps ponders creative uses for the beagleboard | 13:34 | |
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| Meiz_n810 | Stskeeps: yep :) | 13:34 |
| lardman | morning | 13:35 |
| Meiz_n810 | morning lardman | 13:35 |
| wazd | lardman: hola | 13:35 |
| Meiz_n810 | Stskeeps: saw the swap uage in that pic ? it's because i just had bunch of apps open | 13:36 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 13:36 |
| Meiz_n810 | normally there's about 60 mb of memory used and 60 mb of swap too | 13:36 |
| timelE61i | gan, i'm poking mediaplayer | 13:37 |
| timelE61i | I'm considering renaming it to Multimedia | 13:38 |
| * GeneralAntilles deletes large swaths of the wikipedia article on Canola. | 13:38 | |
| timelE61i | To match Images | 13:38 |
| timelE61i | V. Image viewer | 13:38 |
| timelE61i | Or just Media | 13:39 |
| timelE61i | I'll probablty rename Internet radio to Net radio | 13:39 |
| timelE61i | And i'm considering changing Library to Home or " " | 13:40 |
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| timelE61i | It'll be Media | 13:46 |
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| timelE61i | And either AV Chat or Chat AV | 13:46 |
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| * GeneralAntilles fills the room with bacon smell for lcuk. | 13:49 | |
| lcuk | mmmmmmmm thanks | 13:51 |
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| Shezi | Hi every body. Just want to know, if i can upgrade the glib in Diablo SDK | 13:52 |
| Shezi | ? is it possible? | 13:52 |
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| lcuk | we just had a powercut here - so i sat down munching bacon n egg :) | 13:53 |
| lcuk | mornin lardman | 13:53 |
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| Shezi | any body? | 13:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hrm, anybody here good with IPA? | 13:56 |
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| lardman | Indian Pale Ale? | 14:00 |
| lardman | I'm not too bad | 14:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | International Phonetic Alphabet. :P | 14:01 |
| lardman | drat! | 14:01 |
| lardman | I was hoping for some samples | 14:01 |
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| lcuk | lardman, samples of ipa? theres whole guides online i believe | 14:02 |
| lcuk | ahhhh beer samples | 14:03 |
| * lcuk is slow | 14:03 | |
| lardman | :) | 14:03 |
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| lcuk | lardman, barcode. if you were browsing through pictures taken with the phone would you expect to be able to scan any picture with barcode? | 14:05 |
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| lcuk | ie just randomly going through recent pictures (for instance..) and zooming into one picture, being able to scan it for barcodes. this would obviously be ontop of the live scan | 14:06 |
| lcuk | cos i sorta made an icon for it :$ | 14:06 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/barcode.png | 14:07 |
| ccooke | Anyone else here use eggtimer? | 14:07 |
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| lardman | lcuk: yeah, you should be able to scan any picture I'd have thought | 14:09 |
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| lcuk | good - ive made the UI buttons (no backend screens yet) for sketching and scanning and tagging and managing any photo from recent photos | 14:09 |
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| lcuk | wwhen you zoom into a pic the buttons just appear at the bttom - i take it now you have seen the video | 14:10 |
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| lardman | video? | 14:18 |
| lardman | argh, wish I'd brought my a2dp headphones in today | 14:19 |
| lardman | note to self: must package bluez-utils with ssvb's latest patches | 14:19 |
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| lcuk | lardman, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMXp0Dg_UaY | 14:23 |
| lcuk | its very sliq :$ | 14:23 |
| lardman | looks very nice | 14:24 |
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| lcuk | lardman, since that video i put the recent pictures section of liqbase back in and can zoom to photo group and then individual one smoothly | 14:25 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/liq.20090208_205336.lib.scr.png | 14:25 |
| lcuk | and its on the individual view that ive put the ui bits :) | 14:25 |
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| lardman | cool, so what's the direction now then? | 14:25 |
| keesj | lcuk: !!! kudos | 14:25 |
| lardman | use it as the desktop UI? and have apps use it? | 14:26 |
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| lcuk | well its the base of what liqbase playground needs to be. i have made each app now into a standalone .so file now so that i dont have to load up and worry about the whole big monolithci app | 14:27 |
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| lcuk | obviously this then makes it easier not only for myself to do stuff, but for others as well | 14:28 |
| lardman | it is very cool, but do produce an app which uses it | 14:28 |
| lardman | i.e. a photos viewing app would be pretty easy I imagine | 14:28 |
| lcuk | im importing liqbase apps (which were all internally standalone anyway) | 14:28 |
| lardman | or a general organiser app, etc | 14:28 |
| lcuk | all the standalone fullscreen things in old liqbase should come in without an issue | 14:28 |
| lcuk | yes | 14:28 |
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| lcuk | adding ui and linkage between things for the tagging and doing things between the different apps is expected | 14:29 |
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| lcuk | lardman, the calendar day view i keep zipping into on the vid - i want that to be proper hand drawn on the wall calendar | 14:30 |
| lardman | can you hook into the Xserver, have liqlauncher or similar | 14:30 |
| lcuk | but at the same time it needs to have typed up ical type sync | 14:30 |
| lcuk | i dont know enough about xserver itself :$ | 14:30 |
| lcuk | someone else might though :) | 14:30 |
| lcuk | thats in part why i broke the stuff down into lib|ui|widgets | 14:30 |
| wazd_hp | lardman: btw, have you seen new lcuk video?) | 14:31 |
| lardman | I was thinking of being able to display normal GTK+ apps using your acceleration features, as people won't just port stuff straight away | 14:31 |
| lcuk | i wish i could send you a picture from here :) | 14:31 |
| wazd_hp | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iMXp0Dg_UaY | 14:31 |
| lcuk | lardman, thats ok - its my playground at first it will have the stuff i want it to have, no pressure to change - cos you can close/reopen as required | 14:32 |
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| lcuk | if others get involved and WANT to write them thats also fine :) | 14:32 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: i think a a simple screen scrape and redraw and WM stuff can do quite a lot of neat stuff.. | 14:33 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, "screen scrape" == read the x11 window definition at runtime | 14:34 |
| lcuk | its entirely feasible | 14:34 |
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| Stskeeps | lcuk: well, same way that you take a screenshot | 14:34 |
| Stskeeps | is what im talking about | 14:34 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, nahhh much better to simply read the locations of the windows and draw as required in the overlay | 14:35 |
| lcuk | "mybutton1","button" -> liqcliprect_drawcell("jaffa'superbutton") ;) | 14:36 |
| lcuk | but thats less my concern tbh, im not personally considering bringing gtk compatability into this and im not spending time right now doing x11 either. i will however try to setup base screens and example code in the layouts and formats required for the different kinds of applications | 14:37 |
| lcuk | ciro ip has an amazing clock (the clock on the video is called "ciroclock.c" :)) | 14:38 |
| lcuk | it just needs some of his polish | 14:38 |
| lardman | my point is that if you did that, people would be able to use it | 14:38 |
| lardman | and it would be cool too | 14:38 |
| Macer | holy shit i just twisted the hell out of my ankle.. that sucked | 14:38 |
| aquatix | ouch | 14:38 |
| Macer | STUPID SNOW! | 14:38 |
| lcuk | people will be able to use it anyway simon | 14:38 |
| lcuk | ouch macer! | 14:38 |
| lardman | lcuk: yeah, but they need it to do something useful, not just look cool :) | 14:39 |
| Macer | my foot slipped off a stair.. i had to do the whole "i'm a man.. walk it off.. i'm a man.. walk it off" for like 20 minutes haha | 14:39 |
| aquatix | just fyi: bluetooth keyboard+n810+gprs+ssh works just fine nowadays :) | 14:39 |
| aquatix | used to lag and repeat like hell | 14:39 |
| Macer | aquatix: especially the keyboard | 14:39 |
| Macer | that shit drove me nuts | 14:39 |
| lcuk | lardman, thats the point, i use it now to do reading andwriting from data, but what i use it for is nothing to what you guys could use it for | 14:40 |
| aquatix | Macer: yep | 14:40 |
| Macer | i hated typing like thiiiiiiis :) | 14:40 |
| * aquatix has been irc'ing over ssh for 1:45h yesterday from the train | 14:40 | |
| lardman | could being the operative word there, someone's got to write an app which uses it | 14:40 |
| aquatix | yeah :) | 14:40 |
| Macer | i like using my n800 with my g1 more than my n95... att sucked so badly | 14:40 |
| Macer | i kept having ppp drops | 14:41 |
| Macer | it was like slow torture | 14:41 |
| lardman | lcuk: the text reading is very cool, as are the photo viewing tools, package them up and release them - they are something people can use right now | 14:41 |
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| lcuk | lardman, i have and i am doing - i am porting and bringing in all the bits from liqbase which are needed to handle and manage photos and sketches | 14:41 |
| AndrewFBlack | Macer you can give me your n95 if you don't want it :) | 14:41 |
| lardman | I'm just wondering if you'd be better having individual apps, rather than one super app which does everything | 14:42 |
| lcuk | you can have your own app - just install the .so into the prper place | 14:42 |
| lcuk | then it will show on the playground | 14:42 |
| Macer | haha | 14:42 |
| lcuk | no need to ever get involved in heavy libliqbase stuff | 14:42 |
| lardman | yeah, but most people don't write apps | 14:43 |
| Macer | AndrewFBlack: it still workes on tmob edge | 14:43 |
| lcuk | lardman ? | 14:43 |
| Macer | although i might repair it and sell it on ebay.. had a couple minor ... "accidents" with it | 14:43 |
| Macer | need to buy an encasing for it | 14:43 |
| Macer | and the repair tool to rip the stock one off | 14:43 |
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| lardman | lcuk: most people don't write apps, so making it easy to write them is good, but also releasing individual ones (or a wm which has the features) would be more accessible for most people | 14:44 |
| Macer | it's all cosmetic... but it hurts in the heart walking around with a $500+ phone with scratches on it :) | 14:44 |
| AndrewFBlack | Macer I've been looking on ebay hoping to get a decent phone for quick email checking but half the phones are ebay now are not much cheaper then new | 14:44 |
| Macer | than | 14:44 |
| Macer | ;) | 14:44 |
| lcuk | lardman, ive seen many many weekend projects over the last 12 months which are cool in their own way, but which are no more than a single dialog in the right place | 14:44 |
| Macer | than compares... then is time (had a girlfriend that used to drive me nuts when i did that shit so now i'm stuck driving others nuts for the rest of my life) | 14:45 |
| lcuk | screensavers, options dialogs, tea timers, calculators etc | 14:45 |
| Macer | AndrewFBlack: yeah though... phones on ebay aren't worth it.. plus.. i probably wouldn't trust an ebay phone anyways | 14:45 |
| lardman | lcuk: yep? | 14:45 |
| AndrewFBlack | I'm considering getting a Nokia 9300 off ebay I know its old but its cheap lol | 14:45 |
| lardman | lcuk: if you want to replace the ui, then do the whole thing it what I'm saying | 14:45 |
| Macer | AndrewFBlack: get an e71.. they're pretty low now too | 14:46 |
| lardman | or produce individual apps which use the liqbase abilities | 14:46 |
| lcuk | those same weekend projects can be made and used in liqbase and look pretty and act like nice fast 3d dynamic things | 14:46 |
| lardman | if they could just be run as is, that would be cool | 14:46 |
| slonopotamus | lcuk, so... you've created meta-weekend project? | 14:46 |
| lcuk | lol | 14:46 |
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| Macer | e71 is a pretty sexy phone too if you ask me | 14:47 |
| lcuk | lardman, the alternative at this moment in time will be exactly the same: use clutter to get pretty things | 14:47 |
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| lardman | needs a hook into the wm though | 14:47 |
| AndrewFBlack | Macer, Most of the E71s are still $300 on ebay | 14:48 |
| lcuk | but it sits on the wm itself, how can it hook into it as well | 14:48 |
| lardman | lcuk: clutter? | 14:48 |
| Macer | really? had a friend who was finding them from 200-250 | 14:48 |
| Macer | :) | 14:48 |
| Macer | maybe he bought them all haha | 14:49 |
| lcuk | isnt that gonna be what the new ui will be in? | 14:49 |
| lardman | yes, and the wm will use it, no? | 14:49 |
| AndrewFBlack | These are all unlocked so that might be why they are charging more | 14:49 |
| lcuk | dunno, ive run clutter apps, not a clutter compositing manager | 14:50 |
| lcuk | its got its own actor ui elements and stuff | 14:50 |
| lcuk | it can sit *inside* a gtk window | 14:50 |
| AndrewFBlack | I saw a E61 for real cheap | 14:50 |
| lardman | indeed, but it would be far cooler if the wm itself used clutter, and likewise liqbase | 14:50 |
| lcuk | obviously, but that involves learning x11 server | 14:51 |
| Stskeeps | abuse libmatchbox2? | 14:51 |
| lardman | ^^ | 14:51 |
| lcuk | which i have pondered about over the time | 14:51 |
| Stskeeps | (that's what nokia is) | 14:51 |
| slonopotamus | anyone can explain what this crap does? dh_installinit -pnokia-tablets-pointercal --name=nokia-tablets-pointercal -u"start 92 S . stop 23 0 1 6 ." --no-start | 14:51 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: sets up a init.d thing | 14:52 |
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| lcuk | but im not gonna sit down and do that because it will be a half fix and limit more than it allows and also take 10longer | 14:52 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeep, i understand that :) but what are those magc numbers for? | 14:52 |
| lardman | default settings | 14:53 |
| lardman | ? | 14:53 |
| lcuk | lardman :D how about a halfway house - read in gtk dialog description xml file thingies and produce liqcells thereof :P :D | 14:53 |
| lardman | yeah, sounds good, but again people will need to recompile | 14:53 |
| lardman | why not replace libgtk+ ;) | 14:54 |
| lcuk | how can they use things in maemo without recompiling | 14:54 |
| lcuk | they are developers :P | 14:54 |
| lcuk | lolol | 14:54 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: S92 | 14:54 |
| lcuk | i did consider that as well | 14:54 |
| lardman | no, most people aren't devs | 14:54 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: in /etc/rcS.d/S92nokia-tablets-pointercal i think | 14:54 |
| lcuk | ive been arguing for this for months simon - i think its MUCH too difficult to get involved in dev in maemo | 14:54 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, --no-start? | 14:55 |
| lcuk | a weekend projject coded with libliqbase ON DEVICE can be entirely achievable | 14:55 |
| lcuk | easily and quickly | 14:55 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: i think it meant "don't start this while installing the package" | 14:55 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, omg | 14:55 |
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| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: it makes sense occasionally to do this though | 14:55 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, you start init script from installation scripts? | 14:56 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: there's some cases it makes sense | 14:56 |
| slonopotamus | oh my | 14:56 |
| Macer | holy shit.. supposed to be 63 here today! | 14:58 |
| Macer | i've got to go wash my car! | 14:58 |
| Macer | heh | 14:58 |
| * slonopotamus likes debian less and less | 14:58 | |
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| * lcuk has to go as well. lardman i do understand your concerns, why dont we try and thrash out a plan to bring gtk into it properly :) | 14:59 | |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: i think this stuff can be done entirely without gtk :P | 14:59 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, now i understand why ubuntu is so slow. it just runs everything iit has installed. | 14:59 |
| * lcuk agrees too, but lardman has a very good point | 14:59 | |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: well if you want an application to depend on a x server, you better well want it running.. | 15:00 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, nope | 15:00 |
| lcuk | bbl | 15:00 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, maybe i want remote x app | 15:00 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, and don't need local x server | 15:00 |
| Stskeeps | i knew you were going to say that :P | 15:01 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, or i want local server but didn't configure it yet | 15:01 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, for example, i need to choose gdm/kdm | 15:02 |
| Stskeeps | i'm not a debian fan, btw. | 15:02 |
| slonopotamus | well... hmm... it's ok enough for you that you build a distro on top of it | 15:03 |
| Stskeeps | nor ubuntu for that sake, deep down i'm a freebsd person, but for the sake of ease of development and use, and the targeted intent of mer, it makes sense to build it with ubuntu bricks | 15:03 |
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| slonopotamus | 'ubuntu bricks'... have somee links to read about that? | 15:04 |
| Stskeeps | i run nexenta on my fileservers, xp on my media centre & laptop, maemo on my tablet, freebsd on some of the servers i manage, so, i just go with what makes sense | 15:04 |
| slonopotamus | omg. nexenta is something scary :) | 15:05 |
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| lardman | lcuk: yes i agree a w/e project can be coded on device, fine, but most people still aren't devs, nothing will change that really | 15:06 |
| lardman | and people will just use python if they want that anyway | 15:10 |
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| * Jaffa scans the Canola beta 11 thread; has anyone pointed out to them that open sourcing at the point of release isn't very... encouraging | 15:39 | |
| RST38h | Mmm? | 15:39 |
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| aquatix | Jaffa: like, "here's a release and oh, here's the source to fix the bugs still in it"? | 15:40 |
| * RST38h does not see the problem | 15:41 | |
| Jaffa | aquatix: something like that; it's a "oh, you wanted the source - here it is" rather than "we're approaching release, let's make it better" | 15:41 |
| johnx | well, better than the Netscape/Mozilla: "Here's a bunch of code. Now go turn it into a browser." | 15:41 |
| Stskeeps | they actually open sourced now? | 15:41 |
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| johnx | they will after the final release | 15:41 |
| johnx | soo...3 weeks I think they said | 15:41 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: "within 3 weeks" (again) | 15:42 |
| MoRpHeUz | Jaffa: canola was meant to be open sourced since the begining..it just had problems with lawyers | 15:42 |
| johnx | heh...I recall betting it would be out before 2009. *cough* | 15:42 |
| MoRpHeUz | it's a shame it couldnt be opened before... | 15:42 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: You seriously believe that if they release the source now, someone will help them make it better? | 15:42 |
| MoRpHeUz | but it's better late than never =) | 15:42 |
| johnx | RST38h, at very least I think we'll see some packages for different devices | 15:42 |
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| RST38h | johnx: if at all | 15:43 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: I don't know; typically when people throw code out with release - and don't want to show code that is in development - the level of community interest in improving it is diminished | 15:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, tell who, exactly? | 15:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | The devs? :roll: | 15:43 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Well, let us say you are a developer, some developer | 15:43 |
| MoRpHeUz | Jaffa: and the code that is being developed is going to be released as well so.... | 15:44 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: And somebody releases n megabytes of PMP code and tells you "go fix it!" | 15:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, I think you're misunderstanding the "motivations" for the delay. | 15:44 |
| * MoRpHeUz goes back to work =) | 15:44 | |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Notice a few things: | 15:44 |
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| MoRpHeUz | GeneralAntilles: probably he is ;) | 15:44 |
| * Jaffa asserts that open source code which is thrown over a wall, with a release; rather than has been developed in the open has a harder time garnering a development community. | 15:44 | |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: 1) it is not your code 2) you will most likely spend a lot of time trying to understand it 3) whatever changes you make won't help your ego much 4) you are not being paid | 15:44 |
| johnx | ah well. I can at least say I'll be making sure it works nice on Mer on VGA devices, but that might be a trivial amount of work given that it already seems to handle rotation on the n8x0 well | 15:45 |
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| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: No, but I have no route to explain things to the lawyers/management/... | 15:45 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, exactly. | 15:45 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: No, do tell me, as a REAL developer, not a fictional OSS developer suspended in vacuum at some OSS museum, WILL you work on this code? | 15:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, anybody who you have a route to talking to already understands all of that. | 15:45 |
| RST38h | s/No/Now | 15:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, the real problem are lawyers/management | 15:46 |
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| thp | question for the Mer people: having a package in maemo extras, are there any steps necessary to offer my apps to Mer also? or can mer use maemo extras as repository? | 15:48 |
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| etrunko | infobot: seen chelli | 15:48 |
| infobot | chelli <n=chelli@debian/developer/tschmidt> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 61d 16h 45m 42s ago, saying: ':)'. | 15:48 |
| Stskeeps | thp: which language? | 15:48 |
| Stskeeps | (which packages, more particularly) | 15:49 |
| thp | Stskeeps: gpodder (python/pygtk), tennix (c/sdl) | 15:49 |
| Stskeeps | thp: probably not but best way is to test if it builds or runs :) | 15:50 |
| thp | Stskeeps: so, if i want my apps in Mer, I have to re-compile them in a Mer SDK? | 15:50 |
| Stskeeps | we have taken a bit different direction than just patching on top of a maemo4, so things might be new and shocking (read: up to date linux alignment), so many things work :P | 15:50 |
| Stskeeps | thp: basically, if you grab the mer VMDK, and you can build your packages with apt-get install build-essentials, it will work | 15:51 |
| Stskeeps | thp: your python packages should work fine | 15:51 |
| Stskeeps | i would check right away but i dont have a mer installation handy :) | 15:51 |
| thp | Stskeeps: ok. and is there an "official" mer repository where i can submit my source packages? | 15:51 |
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| Stskeeps | well we have repository.mer.tspre.org currently, but it's mostly for the base system and such | 15:52 |
| Stskeeps | we don't have sound just yet, btw | 15:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, would it make sense to merge the Mer and Extras autobuilders? | 15:53 |
| Stskeeps | (on nxxx) | 15:53 |
| thp | Stskeeps: yep, but I'd love the idea and direction mer is going | 15:53 |
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| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: i am still pondering how much trouble it causes if we state scratchbox is an accelerator and not what defines the platform it compiles for | 15:53 |
| thp | Stskeeps: so, if mer continues at the current pace, it might be a real alternative for daily use to maemo (at least on n8x0 devices) | 15:54 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: which means, if it doesn't compile accelerated, it will compile "native" (emulation) | 15:54 |
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| Stskeeps | thp: well, best way to test if your apps work is by installing mer, and simply installing the packages - mer allows you to build your packages on device too :) | 15:55 |
| Stskeeps | and then you can submit it to our builders (it's fairly simple to gain uploda rights) | 15:56 |
| thp | Stskeeps: ok. will try that. my last attempt with 0.7 failed, so i'll try again today | 15:56 |
| Stskeeps | thp: alright, if you need any help just prod me | 15:56 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: any luck with powerpc builder yet btw? | 15:57 |
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| Stskeeps | i wonder how many apps will keel over and die if i reverse Enter and KP_Enter, to make maemo more cross-platform | 15:58 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, nope. Haven't been poking at the Wii lately. I want to get my set of hardware packages for the zaurus in shippable state first | 15:59 |
| johnx | I tend to spread myself too thin... | 16:00 |
| johnx | What daemon handles N810 keyboard slide-in/out events? | 16:02 |
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| benson | johnx: dsme, maybe? uncertain, but that's what I thought. | 16:05 |
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| johnx | yeah. I'm still waiting for word about OHM one way or the other :/ | 16:07 |
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| benson | Ah... I didn't realize you meant in 5; no clue there. :) | 16:12 |
| StsN800 | johnx, 10 bucks on HAL | 16:12 |
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| johnx | ah, neat. that'd be nice to hook into then | 16:13 |
| StsN800 | johnx, how does your usb keyboard work with maemo? enter works as kp enter? | 16:16 |
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| johnx | maemo4 or mer? | 16:17 |
| StsN800 | maemo | 16:17 |
| johnx | enter is enter I believe. it prints a carriage return / linefeed in a text editor. need a different test? | 16:17 |
| RST38h | "AOL subscribers are one of the few online populations that still actually click on contextual ads" | 16:18 |
| * RST38h cackles gleefully | 16:18 | |
| StsN800 | k - it doesnt act like dpad center? | 16:18 |
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| johnx | been a while since I used it. I'll do some testing | 16:19 |
| StsN800 | k | 16:19 |
| RST38h | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/02/09/dziuba_google_spending/ | 16:19 |
| RST38h | (sorry johnx, I know you hate those links :)) | 16:19 |
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| benson[away] | I think Enter on USB keyboard is "Enter", just like D-pad center, not "KP_Enter", but D-pad-center=keyboard is disabled when USB keyboard is connected so it still works. | 16:23 |
| * benson[away] actually _is_ awau in 10 seconds. :p | 16:23 | |
| johnx | :) | 16:24 |
| johnx | yeah, xev is showing me Return from the D-pad center in all cases | 16:24 |
| RST38h | Gentlemen, there is a BUG filed for this | 16:24 |
| * RST38h can't believe some people are still not aware of this crap | 16:24 | |
| johnx | hmm? a bug filed for google being fickle about its toys? | 16:25 |
| RST38h | johnx: No, a bug filed for the bloody dpad center being return key | 16:25 |
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| RST38h | and messing up bt keyboards | 16:25 |
| johnx | why is that a bug? | 16:25 |
| RST38h | johnx: it is, if you happen to use an external keyboard | 16:26 |
| johnx | pretend I'm using one right now. wat problem should I see? | 16:26 |
| RST38h | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3913 | 16:26 |
| johnx | ah, thanks | 16:26 |
| RST38h | johnx: Any application that uses N810 ENTER key will not work with external keyboard enter | 16:27 |
| RST38h | johnx: Unless that application also processes N810 RETURN key which is PITA because it is so easy to press accidentally while navigating | 16:27 |
| johnx | the d-pad center or the return key? | 16:27 |
| RST38h | johnx: The dpad center IS the bloody RETURN key | 16:27 |
| RST38h | johnx: That is the whole problem | 16:28 |
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| johnx | so the key on the right edge of the n810 keyboard sends the same keysym as d-pad center? | 16:28 |
| RST38h | johnx: Ok, it is half of the problem. Another half is mechanical: because dpad center is easy to press accidentally, an app programmer would usually disable it | 16:28 |
| RST38h | johnx: No. The proper n810 ENTER key sends KP_Enter | 16:28 |
| johnx | ok, that's the bug | 16:29 |
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| RST38h | johnx: Which is normally reserved for keypad ENTER | 16:29 |
| RST38h | check the 3913 description | 16:29 |
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| * johnx reads | 16:29 | |
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| RST38h | johnx: I will add a clarification about RETURN in a moment | 16:30 |
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| RST38h | johnx: Done | 16:35 |
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| johnx | ok, so what should d-pad center send? | 16:36 |
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| * timelE61i chuckles | 16:47 | |
| timelE61i | you do't need a bt keyboard to suffer | 16:48 |
| thopiekar_N800 | hi | 16:48 |
| timelE61i | Run mer in vmware on a traditional laptop | 16:48 |
| timelE61i | Enter won't work most of the time | 16:48 |
| Stskeeps | i know :P | 16:48 |
| johnx | gah | 16:49 |
| RST38h | johnx: dpad center should ideally send GDK_DPAD_CENTER :) | 16:49 |
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| thopiekar | who of you has got a N800? | 16:51 |
| GAN800 | Hum, I think the adv-backlight component needs some fixin'. | 16:51 |
| thopiekar | today i had the first time strange black bars/lines on the right side of my screen... | 16:52 |
| thopiekar | the same line when the device restarts after a long time of 100% cpu load.. | 16:53 |
| thopiekar | *lines | 16:53 |
| johnx | I don't see lines when the watchdog is triggered. have you been seeing this since the beginning? | 16:53 |
| thopiekar | no the first time today... | 16:54 |
| thopiekar | I just removed the key-lock to note my new homework at school.. | 16:54 |
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| timelE61i | gAn: fixing, how? | 16:57 |
| timeless | so, um has anyone noticed any glaring errors in my l10n-package? | 16:59 |
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| * timeless found one :( | 17:00 | |
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| r2d2rogers | my 770 just passed the punt test.... | 17:06 |
| Stskeeps | punt? | 17:06 |
| r2d2rogers | managed to drop, and kick it | 17:06 |
| Stskeeps | well it is a solid thing | 17:07 |
| r2d2rogers | luckily my boss was in the way and has a good sense of humor | 17:07 |
| Stskeeps | my tablet has taken some quite bad beatings once in a while too | 17:09 |
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| johnx | mine mostly deals out the beatings :) | 17:11 |
| Stskeeps | so, it acts differently when usb keyboard connected, but same keysym? | 17:13 |
| johnx | yup. special huh? | 17:13 |
| Stskeeps | well, there'shope.. | 17:14 |
| johnx | and when a USB keyboard is connected the enter key on the keyboards sends Return while the N810's keyboard's Return key sends KP_ENTER | 17:14 |
| RST38h | Sts: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3913 | 17:15 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: yeah, i know the bug and i think it's a horrid design error, but im wondering if i can work around it :P | 17:16 |
| GAN800 | timeless, components, versions, assignees, etc. I compile a list later. | 17:16 |
| johnx | at very least the N810 keyboard should send Return from return key... | 17:17 |
| johnx | as for the d-pad center...I'm still not sold on what would be best for it to send... | 17:17 |
| timeless | ok | 17:17 |
| timeless | feel free to file a bug for it | 17:17 |
| RST38h | Sts: You can't | 17:17 |
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| Stskeeps | RST38h: obviously you can since usb keyboards work and send Return with expected results | 17:18 |
| RST38h | Sts: I have tried hard but the only "solution" I found is to make KP_Enter = Shift+Return | 17:18 |
| Stskeeps | i just want it to act sane on x86, really | 17:18 |
| RST38h | Sts: at the application level of course | 17:18 |
| RST38h | So, with this "solution" USB keyboard enter works when pressed with shift | 17:19 |
| johnx | further question: is there any app that breaks if the "Enter" key on the N810 keyboard actually sends "Return"? | 17:19 |
| RST38h | and the damn center key does not work =) | 17:19 |
| RST38h | johnx: My emulators will, currently | 17:19 |
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| RST38h | johnx: I had to disable GDK_Return processing, otherwise I would get lots of accidental keypresses | 17:20 |
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| johnx | ah, from the craptastic N810 d-pad? | 17:20 |
| RST38h | exactly | 17:20 |
| RST38h | But N810 dpad is not alone in this | 17:20 |
| johnx | I really did think the N810 was about as bad as it could get... | 17:20 |
| RST38h | On Symbian, it is customary to disable dpad center | 17:20 |
| johnx | s/N810/N800 d-pad/ | 17:20 |
| infobot | johnx meant: I really did think the N800 d-pad was about as bad as it could get... | 17:20 |
| RST38h | johnx: Well, someone at Nokia should take a really hard look at dpads | 17:21 |
| RST38h | johnx: Stuff in E61/E71/E60 was ugly but perfectly usable | 17:21 |
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| johnx | I've said it a million times. They badly need to steal the Zaurus keypad wholesale | 17:21 |
| johnx | and it doesn't even matter which one... | 17:21 |
| RST38h | johnx: The later dpads (N810, E90, etc) are pure crap | 17:21 |
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| RST38h | johnx: there is a *worse* dpad on the market. Look at any RAZRsque Moto phone ;) | 17:22 |
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| * johnx won't touch a phone unless it has decent physical keys that I can thumb-type without looking | 17:22 | |
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| wazd | RST38h: hm, E90 d-pad felt pretty nice for me :( | 17:23 |
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| johnx | RST38h, besides your emus it's mostly other non-GTK apps that would break, right? | 17:26 |
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| RST38h | wazd: how many times have you accidentally pressed the center key though? =) | 17:29 |
| RST38h | johnx: Anyone who disabled dpad center will break | 17:29 |
| RST38h | johnx: gtk or no gtk, it does not matter | 17:30 |
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| johnx | I think the tendency in gtk apps is to not disable d-pad center though | 17:30 |
| johnx | at least from my experience with an N800 | 17:30 |
| RST38h | johnx: then your navigation becomes PITA | 17:30 |
| RST38h | we really only have two gtk apps though: Gnumeric and Abiword. Worth checkign at least these | 17:31 |
| RST38h | XChat and Pidgin too | 17:31 |
| johnx | ah, I was lumping hildon apps in that pile too | 17:31 |
| RST38h | johnx: well, Xournal is also a gtk app, but it mostly uses touch | 17:32 |
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| johnx | quicknote, leafpad, cbrpager | 17:33 |
| johnx | such a stupid situation O_o; | 17:34 |
| RST38h | johnx: if I remember correctly, don't expect it fixed until harmattan | 17:36 |
| Stskeeps | FIXEDINMER | 17:36 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:36 |
| johnx | yeah, well...it will probably be 'fixed' one way or another in Mer | 17:36 |
| thopiekar | has someone of you this (http://picasaweb.google.com/thopiekar/N800Screen#) problem, too? theme glasser, background Tritanium 1... | 17:36 |
| johnx | possibly s/fixed/different, hopefully better/ | 17:36 |
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| thopiekar | there is a shadow behind light-colored windows.. | 17:37 |
| thopiekar | or here the home menu.. | 17:37 |
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| johnx | thopiekar, I can't see what you're pointing out. sorry. | 17:40 |
| thopiekar | hmm its very hard to show but if I open the menue like it shown a shadow appears on the right side if the menu.. so hmm very hard to explain but is it really to hard to see?! | 17:43 |
| johnx | it's hard to tell what's actually there and what is an effect of the camera you used | 17:44 |
| johnx | might be better if you could use macro mode or similar so it wasn't so blurry | 17:44 |
| johnx | but I think I can see. it's a straight dark area that goes all the way from the right edge of the home menu to the right edge of the screen | 17:45 |
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| thopiekar | yes thats what I mean | 17:46 |
| thopiekar | is this behavior of the screen normal?! | 17:46 |
| thopiekar | I never noticed that before, too | 17:46 |
| johnx | I don't know. I've seen it on other LCDs. probably a standard problem with age? | 17:47 |
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| thopiekar | johnx: hmm | 17:48 |
| johnx | what's strange is I see it more often on CRTs | 17:48 |
| aquatix | sounds like an ancient lcd | 17:49 |
| aquatix | those where the days | 17:49 |
| thopiekar | but when the other problem with the thiny bars appears and I would be able to make a photo of it I will send my n800 with the photo to nokia.. | 17:49 |
| johnx | is it under warranty? | 17:49 |
| thopiekar | CRT'S | 17:49 |
| thopiekar | yes! | 17:49 |
| johnx | nice | 17:50 |
| johnx | my warranty ended quite a while ago... | 17:50 |
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| t_s_o | ugh, i keep getting the feeling that MID's will be a disservice to linux, as it seems to be used as a "featurephone firmware" RAD rather then a proper os... | 17:52 |
| johnx | yeah | 17:52 |
| t_s_o | when one see windows and "just works" in the same text, there is a problem | 17:52 |
| johnx | but it's part of the gradual shift to 'computer as an appliance' IMHO | 17:52 |
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| johnx | the first steps are always painful, especially for the people who like the status quo | 17:53 |
| thopiekar | what are CRT's johnx? | 17:53 |
| t_s_o | even tho the same text also mentioned a driver conflict resulting in a reinstall | 17:53 |
| qwerty12 | Can it be true!? An radio application for N800 that can actually record radio :O :) | 17:53 |
| johnx | thopiekar, those older monitors :) | 17:53 |
| t_s_o | so maybe people are just so used to the windows issues that they no longer see them? | 17:53 |
| thopiekar | aah^^ | 17:53 |
| t_s_o | qwerty12: what app is that? | 17:54 |
| qwerty12 | t_s_o, http://dev.ivanov.eu/projects/boafm/index.html | 17:54 |
| t_s_o | hey, nice | 17:55 |
| johnx | t_s_o, just like people who road horses in the early 20th century didn't think about horse poop but still saw the problems with cars :) | 17:55 |
| johnx | s/road/rode/ <- fail | 17:55 |
| t_s_o | heh | 17:55 |
| t_s_o | or maybe one could speed of a "nessesary evil"? | 17:56 |
| johnx | great ars technica that covers the (in my mind) related issue of moving from paper books to ebooks: http://arstechnica.com/gadgets/news/2009/02/the-once-and-future-e-book.ars | 17:56 |
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| johnx | does anyone else see a dead-end to completely open, general purpose computers? or am I just crazy? | 18:02 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: i just see everything going towards pervasive computing | 18:03 |
| Guest97144 | holy crap! My power outlet just fired up! xD | 18:03 |
| t_s_o | johnx: it depends on ones definition of a gpc... | 18:03 |
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| t_s_o | wazd: at first glance i read "fried up"... | 18:04 |
| johnx | the model that desktop windows, desktop linux and desktop mac os represent today | 18:04 |
| wazd | t_s_o: well, that was next :) | 18:04 |
| t_s_o | johnx: it may well be, for the most part | 18:04 |
| t_s_o | in that more and more entertainment boxes are computer internally but present a custom interface | 18:05 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, gimme some hints on wifi and bluetooth, please | 18:05 |
| t_s_o | and that with networking, both wired and wireless, becoming simpler and more powerful, as well as protocols being more and more standardized, there is no real need for them | 18:05 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: tablet-wireless | 18:06 |
| Stskeeps | bluetooth is simple | 18:06 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, thx | 18:07 |
| Stskeeps | also, cx3110x.ko from mer | 18:07 |
| johnx | t_s_o, and with everyone's important stuff moving onto someone else's server anyways... | 18:07 |
| t_s_o | hell, i sometimes see the people that insist on putting windows or ubuntu on netbooks as derailing the concept. as to me the netbook is my thought of a "typewriter with a browser" coming into existence | 18:07 |
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| johnx | docs.google.com means that the browser is a superset of the typewriter :) | 18:08 |
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| lcuk | johnx, i dont see an end to them - i see the way we interact as changing | 18:09 |
| johnx | ah, I don't see an end per se, so much as an end to them being the machine that most people use | 18:10 |
| johnx | to rip more great analogies from that ars technica article, horses didn't go away either :) | 18:10 |
| lcuk | granted - right now i carry my 810 with me and find a terminal keyboard/screen to do my dev from | 18:10 |
| lcuk | (i love that principle by the way:D) | 18:11 |
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| slonopotamus | hildon project @ gnome.org looks dead. or i'm mistaken? | 18:12 |
| Stskeeps | not mistaken, i believe | 18:13 |
| t_s_o | hmm, qwerty12, can you find any way to route the audio to speakers? | 18:13 |
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| t_s_o | in that boafm app, that is | 18:13 |
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| slonopotamus | Hildon (last edited 2008-02-03 14:47:11 by localhost) | 18:14 |
| t_s_o | cute, its toolbar shows a exit button when in fullscreen mode | 18:14 |
| slonopotamus | yep, it's dead | 18:14 |
| qwerty12 | t_s_o, not in that app but you can run "dbus-send --type=method_call --dest=com.nokia.osso_hp_ls_controller /com/nokia/osso_hp_ls_controller com.nokia.osso_hp_ls_controller.loudspeaker.force_loudspeaker_on" from a terminal | 18:15 |
| t_s_o | ugh :P | 18:15 |
| slonopotamus | omg | 18:15 |
| t_s_o | i somewhat hate those dbus commandlines | 18:15 |
| qwerty12 | Creating one generates more hate in me ;) | 18:16 |
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| t_s_o | heh, your probably right | 18:16 |
| johnx | I never complained much because I figured I just wasn't smart enough to appreciate the sheer elegance of those lines...but yeah, they're kind of opaque | 18:17 |
| * Stskeeps fails too understand how the heck Enter on USB keyboards can work. | 18:21 | |
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| johnx | what do you mean? | 18:21 |
| johnx | when you have a keyboard plugged in apps treat the 'Return' keypress differently | 18:21 |
| Stskeeps | i cannot find any piece of code matching it | 18:21 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, but where do they get the info from? | 18:21 |
| qwerty12 | In mer? X86? ARMEL? | 18:22 |
| * RST38h yawns | 18:22 | |
| RST38h | Ok | 18:22 |
| johnx | guessing now: I think H-I-M normally eats the "Return" keysym | 18:22 |
| RST38h | Sts: Your USB keyboard is handled by a USB driver that send RETURN key event to /dev/input that gets mapped to GDK_Return by GDK | 18:22 |
| RST38h | Sts: This is an absolutely normal situation | 18:23 |
| Stskeeps | yes, i agree | 18:23 |
| RST38h | Sts: Any desktop GTK app will treat GDK_return as, well, return key | 18:23 |
| aquatix | btw, is it a known bug/issue that the enter key of my keyboard doesn't work in Mer? | 18:23 |
| aquatix | quite confusing in a VM | 18:23 |
| Stskeeps | aquatix: exactly what we're discussing | 18:24 |
| RST38h | Sts: Now, an extended PC keyboard (and they are all extended now except for portable ones) will also have a numeric keypad and on that keypad there is another return key | 18:24 |
| aquatix | Stskeeps: yeah, got that feeling | 18:24 |
| aquatix | Stskeeps: but i just dropped in here | 18:24 |
| * aquatix listens for a bit :) | 18:24 | |
| RST38h | Sts: THAT key maps to GDK_KP_Enter but most desktop apps will treat it the same way as GDK_Return | 18:24 |
| RST38h | Sts: And now we come to the problem: for some reason, Nokia mapped DPad center button to GDK_Return. When they made N810, GDK_Return was already taken, so they used GDK_KP_Enter for the REAL return key | 18:25 |
| RST38h | Sts: At that time, it made sense to them. Now, when people port desktop apps to Maemo, it no longer has any sense | 18:25 |
| RST38h | especially considering that GDK_Return is a live minefield, mechanically | 18:26 |
| Stskeeps | right, so why does USB keyboards work, and what reads the keyboard-attached thing? | 18:26 |
| jaska | danger of repurposing something | 18:26 |
| Stskeeps | so GTK starts actually normally when receiving GDK_Return | 18:27 |
| johnx | RST38h, you have only an N810, correct? | 18:27 |
| RST38h | johnx: Yep | 18:27 |
| johnx | RST38h, do you know the N800 behavior we're talking about? | 18:27 |
| RST38h | Sts: USB keyboard will work with any app that takes KP_Enter into account | 18:27 |
| RST38h | Sts: Sorry, with any app that rakes GDK_Return into account | 18:28 |
| RST38h | Sts: no problem there | 18:28 |
| RST38h | Sts: The problem is that on NIT, you are better off ignoring GDK_Return for normal navigation. And once you ignore it, USB keyboards do not work | 18:28 |
| johnx | that's actually a different problem than the one we're talking about | 18:29 |
| RST38h | which one are you talking about? | 18:29 |
| johnx | on the N800 when there is no physical keyboard (usb or bt) attached, hitting d-pad center (usually) brings up the fullscreen finger keyboard | 18:30 |
| johnx | it still sends the "Return" keysym, but that never gets to the app | 18:30 |
| johnx | again, in most cases | 18:30 |
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| johnx | this is only in text fields though | 18:31 |
| johnx | if you have a usb/bt keyboard present hitting d-pad center will actually act like a normal "Return" key, getting you a newline in the Notes app | 18:32 |
| RST38h | ah, what you describe must happen somewhere in gtk | 18:32 |
| RST38h | not even in gdk | 18:32 |
| * RST38h has to go, will be back later to look at it | 18:32 | |
| johnx | alright. 'later :) | 18:32 |
| slonopotamus | nit-bootmenu-compat - what license? | 18:33 |
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| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: bsd licensed | 18:33 |
| Stskeeps | afaik | 18:33 |
| Stskeeps | it is a mismatch of a lot of different peoples stuff | 18:34 |
| slonopotamus | hmm | 18:34 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: OK, removing HIM helps | 18:34 |
| qwerty12 | It's not actually licensed :/ | 18:34 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: as in, it works sanely | 18:34 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: as in, removing totally as IM | 18:34 |
| slonopotamus | you're a pirate then :) | 18:36 |
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| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: arr. | 18:36 |
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| slonopotamus | ok, easier question. nokia-tablets-pointercal license? | 18:38 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: same as xserver-omapfb one | 18:38 |
| Stskeeps | its from there | 18:38 |
| Stskeeps | er | 18:38 |
| Stskeeps | Xomap, i mean | 18:38 |
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| qwerty12 | woot, my dodgy hack to adv-backlight to have an display setting entry works | 18:39 |
| slonopotamus | and Xomap is same as xorg? | 18:39 |
| slonopotamus | arrrrgh | 18:39 |
| slonopotamus | i hate microb | 18:39 |
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| qwerty12 | it's all about webkit now :P | 18:39 |
| slonopotamus | with its windows constantly stealing my focus | 18:40 |
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| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: xomap is the old one | 18:40 |
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| Stskeeps | hm, someone is working on HIM and cellwriter | 18:45 |
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| qwerty12 | Dunno if he got far though, I remember him posting that the plugin crashes and he needs debugging help | 18:45 |
| Stskeeps | changed 10 days ago | 18:46 |
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| slonopotamus | oops. http://gitweb.pingu.fi/?p=xf86-video-omapfb.git;a=summary they're doing something | 18:47 |
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| AndrewFBlack | to use a new xmodmap you just xmodmap mapname? | 18:48 |
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| qwerty12 | yes | 18:49 |
| Stskeeps | ~curse closed-source him | 18:51 |
| infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, closed-source him ! | 18:51 |
| johnx | hmm? the other plugins? or the framework itself? | 18:51 |
| Stskeeps | well i found out what does the magic now | 18:51 |
| AndrewFBlack | wonder why xmodmap that makes FN key work on b-mans ubuntu Jaunty wont work for Mer if I'm using Lxde | 18:51 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, it's in the plugin itself? | 18:52 |
| Stskeeps | AndrewFBlack: possibly some strange HIM stuff.. | 18:52 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: keyboard_monitor.so observes /system/osso/af/keyboard-attached and sets hildon_im_ui_set_keyboard_state | 18:53 |
| Stskeeps | accordingly | 18:53 |
| Stskeeps | i so feel like making that thing a gconf option instead.. | 18:54 |
| johnx | what is 'hildon_im_ui_set_keyboard_state'? an env var? | 18:54 |
| AndrewFBlack | ohh well I'll just stick with onscreen keyboard for now | 18:54 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: method in HIMF | 18:55 |
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| Stskeeps | disables HIM or enables it, effectively | 18:55 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:55 |
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| johnx | drrr...that's pretty kludged | 18:55 |
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| Stskeeps | Mer: Adding Sanity To Maemo But Losing Our Own | 18:55 |
| johnx | like worshiping before the elder gods | 18:56 |
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| Stskeeps | Meiz_mer: how does your Enter key and dpad center work in Mer? | 19:01 |
| Meiz_mer | let me try | 19:02 |
| Meiz_mer | center works everywhere | 19:02 |
| Meiz_mer | enter only in few apps | 19:02 |
| Stskeeps | maemopad? | 19:02 |
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| Meiz_mer | only center work in maemopad | 19:04 |
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| Meiz_mer | works | 19:04 |
| Stskeeps | and osso-xterm? | 19:04 |
| Meiz_mer | only center | 19:05 |
| Stskeeps | k | 19:05 |
| Meiz_mer | enter was working in midori or epiphany i think... | 19:05 |
| Meiz_mer | i just tried openoffice3.0.1.. | 19:06 |
| Meiz_mer | SLOW | 19:06 |
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| Stskeeps | hehe | 19:06 |
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| Meiz_mer | how to rightclick in kde with touchscreen? | 19:08 |
| Meiz_mer | in mer | 19:08 |
| Stskeeps | no clue | 19:08 |
| Meiz_mer | maybe some mac users know... | 19:08 |
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| qwerty12 | Meiz_mer, maybe you may find something in http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15282 | 19:08 |
| Meiz_mer | who are having kde 4 in their macs :P | 19:08 |
| Meiz_mer | oh, thanks | 19:09 |
| * qwerty12 <3's dget | 19:09 | |
| Mek | Meiz_mer: in mac you can just ctrl-click, but that is handled at the OS level already | 19:11 |
| slonopotamus | i like http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=495487 approach | 19:11 |
| Meiz_mer | Mek, ok | 19:11 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, question is always what level to do it at though... | 19:11 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, lower - more apps will benefit | 19:12 |
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| johnx | lower = more universal, higher = more flexible | 19:12 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, hmm... what do you want to configure in right-click emulator? | 19:13 |
| johnx | I want to be able to tap and hold without it suddenly sending a right click :) | 19:14 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, you can't even with him | 19:14 |
| slonopotamus | HIM | 19:14 |
| johnx | what does an individual app like H-I-M have to do with this? | 19:14 |
| slonopotamus | err... i mean with maemo approach | 19:15 |
| johnx | it depends on the app to interpret in maemo | 19:15 |
| slonopotamus | uh? | 19:15 |
| slonopotamus | make a long left tap in microb | 19:15 |
| slonopotamus | not right one, but long left | 19:16 |
| johnx | apps don't receive "right click" they receive the amount of time the pointer has been held down | 19:16 |
| slonopotamus | you can't | 19:16 |
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| slonopotamus | and? | 19:16 |
| johnx | it's their choice what do with it | 19:16 |
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| johnx | a right click isn't necessarily what you want to happen in a sketch app when you hold the stylus down :) | 19:16 |
| johnx | or a game | 19:17 |
| slonopotamus | you wanna patch each and every app just because you 'want to make long left click'? | 19:17 |
| johnx | people already patched the apps | 19:17 |
| slonopotamus | uh? | 19:17 |
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| slonopotamus | kde, maybe? | 19:17 |
| johnx | kde is in scope for your distribution | 19:18 |
| Mek | I agree that by default it would make sense to send right-click to apps when you make a long left click, but allow apps to override this | 19:18 |
| johnx | and out of scope for Mer :) | 19:18 |
| Mek | than you only have to patch those few apps that want other behavior | 19:18 |
| slonopotamus | huh | 19:18 |
| slonopotamus | out-of-scope | 19:18 |
| slonopotamus | :P | 19:18 |
| lcuk | johnx, what you should say is "send us a patch" | 19:19 |
| johnx | Mek, if you hack this at an X11 level you can't 'change back' at the app level (AFAICT) | 19:19 |
| slonopotamus | Mek, you can't want to install kde on mer | 19:19 |
| Mek | slonopotamus: hmm? | 19:19 |
| slonopotamus | s/Mek/Meiz/ | 19:19 |
| infobot | slonopotamus meant: Meiz, you can't want to install kde on mer | 19:19 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: Meiz did already :P | 19:19 |
| Mek | slonopotamus: (and I install kde on maemo...) | 19:19 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: http://picasaweb.google.com/meizirkki/MerOnN810#5300719098626108162 | 19:20 |
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| slonopotamus | Mer itself if out of scope :) and gentoo too | 19:20 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, I guess I shouldn't say 'out of scope' so much as we're worried about making hildon apps work as well as they can, and not interested in compromising how well they work to make KDE kinda work | 19:20 |
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| slonopotamus | johnx, ok, ok, i'm just kidding :) | 19:21 |
| slonopotamus | i need to know license of nit-bootmenu-compat | 19:22 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, so you're going to make sure that all apps work 100% on gentoo? :> | 19:22 |
| lcuk | mekjohnx, that could technically be curable by having x11 itself check if the app its sending events back to is hildonized or not | 19:22 |
| lcuk | for hildon apps have it responsing the same way as currently | 19:22 |
| lcuk | otherwise try some alternative patched variation? | 19:22 |
| johnx | lcuk, here it's appropriate: that's out of scope | 19:22 |
| johnx | so we patch *every* X server we want to run on? | 19:22 |
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| lcuk | no, they do | 19:23 |
| johnx | they patch the x server to play nice with us? | 19:23 |
| slonopotamus | omh | 19:23 |
| lcuk | if the kde bunch want specific desktop like reactivity then the kde install should do something itself | 19:23 |
| slonopotamus | next step is to patch kernel so it plays well with hildon apps, i guees | 19:24 |
| lcuk | since its not used for any of the normal maemo/mer apps its out of scope.. | 19:24 |
| slonopotamus | i thought you're building more open system than maemo | 19:24 |
| johnx | we are | 19:25 |
| lcuk | that is open - spending time coding something that does not need to be coded for any hildon app is out of scope for a distro with hildon as its primary.. | 19:25 |
| slonopotamus | there can't be 'out of scope'. everything is in scope if there is someone who hacks it. | 19:25 |
| johnx | then why haven't you been working on making open office run great? | 19:26 |
| slonopotamus | well, i don't need it | 19:26 |
| lcuk | ...! | 19:26 |
| johnx | I think maybe 'out of scope' was the wrong choice of words earlier on my part | 19:27 |
| lcuk | "not my priority" | 19:27 |
| johnx | I should have said something more like 'we're concentrating on making hildon apps work really well' | 19:27 |
| lcuk | bbs anyway | 19:27 |
| slonopotamus | accepted :) | 19:27 |
| slonopotamus | looks like somepne has to rewrite nit-bootmenu-compat? | 19:29 |
| Stskeeps | nit-bootmenu-compat was written mostly by me. | 19:29 |
| Stskeeps | there's a slight portion which is from one of the init scripts, the sysctl stuff | 19:29 |
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| slonopotamus | nit-boot-basics? | 19:30 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, it came from there | 19:30 |
| Stskeeps | im off for a bit | 19:30 |
| t_s_o | hmm, while im a bit slow, distractions are to blame, im reading the ars article on ebooks and ran into the part about the final harry potter book being transcribed from photographs. | 19:30 |
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| t_s_o | thing is, that reminds me about the production of elephant armor in ancient india | 19:31 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, your part is 'as-is'? | 19:31 |
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| Stskeeps | bsd licensed yeah | 19:31 |
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| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, http://mirrors.usc.edu/pub/linux/distributions/gentoo/licenses/BSD orhttp://mirrors.usc.edu/pub/linux/distributions/gentoo/licenses/BSD-4 ? | 19:35 |
| slonopotamus | woops. there was 'or' | 19:35 |
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| slonopotamus | 2-, 3- or 4-clause? :) | 19:37 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: first one | 19:37 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, k. will use irc logs as prooflink :) | 19:37 |
| t_s_o | heh, i love how one have to remove the selection of a text (say the url in the browser) for the onscreen keyboard to show | 19:37 |
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| timeless | hello world | 20:00 |
| timeless | what was i trying to install a couple of hours ago? :) | 20:00 |
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| Stskeeps | something involving localization strings? ;) | 20:02 |
| timeless | ispell | 20:04 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: short fix to ctrl-j is rm'ing /etc/gtk-2.0/gtk.immodules btw | 20:04 |
| Stskeeps | and reboot | 20:04 |
| timeless | what is gtk.immodules? | 20:04 |
| Stskeeps | it sets HIM as the input method for GTK | 20:04 |
| timeless | and the him doesn't actually let me input fancy chars, right? | 20:05 |
| Stskeeps | well, until i make this gconf patch, it will block for Enter otherwise :P | 20:05 |
| timeless | um | 20:05 |
| timeless | i think my box crashed or rebooted or something | 20:05 |
| timeless | because i'm now staring at a console | 20:05 |
| Stskeeps | keyboard_monitor.so which usually deals with this stuff is closed source so :) | 20:05 |
| Stskeeps | possibly X crashing maybe | 20:06 |
| Stskeeps | or HD exiting | 20:06 |
| timeless | there's nothing in the console | 20:06 |
| timeless | what alt-f would have x? 6 ? 7? | 20:07 |
| timeless | 7 says: | 20:07 |
| Stskeeps | it'd be in .xsession-erroors | 20:07 |
| Stskeeps | -o | 20:07 |
| timeless | nm-system-settings: Adding default connection 'Auto eth0' for /org/freedesktop/Hal/devices/.... | 20:07 |
| timeless | what's my password? | 20:07 |
| Stskeeps | the one you set when it asked you in first-boot-wizard :P otherwise, root/rootme | 20:08 |
| timeless | yeah, root/rootme worked :) | 20:08 |
| timeless | where's xsession-errors? ~ ? | 20:08 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 20:08 |
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| timeless | hildon-desktop: Fatal IO error 104 (Connection reset by peer) on X server :0.0. | 20:09 |
| timeless | sapwood-server: Fatal IO error 11 (Resource temporarily unavailable) on X server :0.0. | 20:09 |
| timeless | what does that mean? :) | 20:10 |
| timeless | also, what does: | 20:10 |
| timeless | hildon-desktop[2610]: GLIB WARNING ** default - Application Application Mnaager - did not provide valid .desktop file | 20:10 |
| timeless | mean | 20:10 |
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| timeless | ok | 20:12 |
| timeless | /var/log/Xorg.0.log | 20:12 |
| timeless | shows a crash of some sort | 20:12 |
| timeless | Saw signal 11. Server aborting. | 20:12 |
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| timeless | sp3000: food? | 20:15 |
| pupnik | "'stimulus' plans are economic methamphetamine, not medicine" - me | 20:16 |
| derf | Not a big Keynesian, eh? | 20:17 |
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| sp3000 | timeless: maybe, eventually | 20:18 |
| * timeless kicks Mer | 20:18 | |
| sp3000 | *splash* | 20:18 |
| timeless | eh, No directory, logging in with HOME=/ | 20:18 |
| johnx | timeless, what did you do? :P | 20:19 |
| timeless | crashed x | 20:19 |
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| timeless | so now i'm asking Mer to reboot | 20:19 |
| timeless | and um... it's sitting at: | 20:19 |
| timeless | [196423.532941] Restarting system, | 20:20 |
| timeless | s/,/./ | 20:20 |
| infobot | timeless meant: [196423.532941] Restarting system. | 20:20 |
| Stskeeps | virtualbox acting up? dunno | 20:20 |
| timeless | finally | 20:20 |
| timeless | vmware | 20:20 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 20:20 |
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| timeless | ooh, enter works! | 20:25 |
| timeless | thank! | 20:25 |
| Stskeeps | i'm working on a better fix | 20:26 |
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| timeless | ok, problem | 20:29 |
| timeless | i was playing a BBC "net radio" thing | 20:29 |
| timeless | and it said | 20:30 |
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| timeless | "Connection to media stream lost.\n" | 20:30 |
| timeless | "Try connecting again?" | 20:30 |
| timeless | but, i was playing something from a net radio | 20:30 |
| timeless | i don't know what a media stream is | 20:30 |
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| slonopotamus | hmm | 20:31 |
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| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, no tablet-wireless in http://repository.mer.tspre.org/pool/main/t/ | 20:32 |
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| Stskeeps | hmm. | 20:33 |
| slonopotamus | timeless, that means 'something broke' | 20:33 |
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| timeless | aww g, thanks | 20:33 |
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| slonopotamus | timeless, 'press ok and we'll try once more. if it brakes again, try more' | 20:34 |
| slonopotamus | timeless, if it keeps braking, ask your system administrator for help | 20:35 |
| slonopotamus | timeless, something like that :) programmers can produce either too technical or completely useless error messages :) | 20:36 |
| timeless | slonopotamus: i gave my n800s to a couple of school age girls | 20:37 |
| timeless | they wouldn't know what a system administrator was | 20:37 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: contrib/ | 20:37 |
| slonopotamus | timeless, maybe that should be replaced with 'ask someone smarter'? | 20:37 |
| timeless | ... | 20:38 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, thx | 20:38 |
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| timeless | anyone here use skype (en-us, win)? | 20:38 |
| slonopotamus | timeless, yep, not very polite | 20:38 |
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| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, hmm) the only thing in contrib | 20:39 |
| johnx | s/something broke/go find that friend of yours. the one who's good with computers. no, not him. the other one. still have his number? yeah, call him right now/g | 20:39 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, well, you know what that means :) | 20:40 |
| johnx | this is why they don't let me write the error messages | 20:40 |
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| slonopotamus | rmmod cx3110x # remove initfs-provided wlan | 20:44 |
| slonopotamus | and then insmod back | 20:45 |
| slonopotamus | why? | 20:45 |
| johnx | we use a different cx3110x module | 20:45 |
| johnx | patched with linux wireless extension support | 20:45 |
| johnx | among other things | 20:45 |
| slonopotamus | ok | 20:45 |
| timeless | sts: hey, when do i get a theme picker? | 20:47 |
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| timeless | what the heck | 20:48 |
| timeless | why does numpty require libosso-email-interface? | 20:48 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: when someone codes a CPA for it | 20:49 |
| Stskeeps | and mailing level designs | 20:49 |
| timeless | it's just a gconf setting, right? | 20:49 |
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| Stskeeps | theme? no, scary .osso/current-theme etc | 20:50 |
| timeless | you mean .osso/current-gtk-theme.maemo_af_desktop ? | 20:50 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, for instance | 20:51 |
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| timeless | is there an example of: | 20:53 |
| timeless | zenity --list --radiolist --text=xx --column=yy this_stuff_that_i_can_not_guess ? | 20:53 |
| johnx | http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=zenity+column+example&l=1 or man zenity | 20:55 |
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| slonopotamus | oh | 20:56 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, cool site | 20:56 |
| Shadow__X | how do i use a ssh tunnel for traffic on maemo | 20:56 |
| * johnx heads off to bed | 20:57 | |
| timeless | it doesn't look like i can change the title of the dialog | 20:58 |
| Stskeeps | --title? | 20:59 |
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| Stskeeps | we do it in mer | 20:59 |
| slonopotamus | --title? | 20:59 |
| slonopotamus | uh | 20:59 |
| timeless | it wasn't in --help-list | 20:59 |
| slonopotamus | sts, you were faster | 20:59 |
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| ||cw | Shadow__X: install openssh | 20:59 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: open source software and documentation are often not things that mix well | 20:59 |
| timeless | no kidding | 20:59 |
| Shadow__X | ||cw, already installed | 21:00 |
| * timeless is spoiled by solaris | 21:00 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | timeless, it's an option generic to all types | 21:00 |
| Shadow__X | how do i get microb to use the tunnel | 21:00 |
| Stskeeps | my favourite example is still openssl docs | 21:00 |
| Shadow__X | or anythong else for that matter | 21:00 |
| slonopotamus | Shadow__x, the same way you do that for other apps | 21:00 |
| timeless | what tunnel? | 21:00 |
| timeless | microb supports gecko networking prefs | 21:00 |
| timeless | including PAC | 21:00 |
| Shadow__X | slonopotamus, how? | 21:01 |
| Shadow__X | i am asking | 21:01 |
| timeless | (as long as you make sure it ignores gconf networking junk) | 21:01 |
| Shadow__X | lol | 21:01 |
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| Shadow__X | timeless how do you do that | 21:01 |
| Shadow__X | gconf-editor? | 21:01 |
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| Shadow__X | about:config? | 21:01 |
| timeless | about:config for the gecko stuff | 21:01 |
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| timeless | personally i use vi /var/lib/gconf or something for the gconf stuff :) | 21:01 |
| Shadow__X | so about config to tell microb to use the ssh tunnel | 21:01 |
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| timeless | microb wouldn't understand an 'ssh tunnel\ | 21:01 |
| ||cw | Shadow__X: that's not how tunnels work... | 21:02 |
| * slonopotamus is somewhat outdated. i'd just add a route. | 21:02 | |
| timeless | it would understand "use socks please" | 21:02 |
| timeless | and ssh supports socks (-D ?) | 21:02 |
| Shadow__X | yeah | 21:02 |
| timeless | use firefox, setup your socks proxy correctly | 21:02 |
| timeless | load about:config there | 21:02 |
| timeless | then copy the bits and set them in microb's about:config | 21:02 |
| Stskeeps | ooh. | 21:02 |
| Stskeeps | ze magic patch | 21:02 |
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| Shadow__X | i know i guess a better question would be how to setup socks proxy in mircrob or in maemo as a whole | 21:02 |
| timeless | if you're using a real n800/n810, you'll probably need to set some pref to tell microb to ignore gconf | 21:03 |
| Stskeeps | gconftool-2 -s -t bool /apps/osso/inputmethod/keyboard_available true | 21:03 |
| Stskeeps | -> Enter works. | 21:03 |
| sp3000 | zenity's help isn't too bad | 21:03 |
| Shadow__X | timeless, its a n810 | 21:03 |
| Stskeeps | set to false, it doesnt work | 21:03 |
| sp3000 | though I can't see how you select radios or checkboxes | 21:03 |
| Stskeeps | woo. | 21:03 |
| timeless | shadow: you can't setup | 21:03 |
| timeless | socks for normal gnome stuff | 21:04 |
| timeless | not w/ our connection manager | 21:04 |
| sp3000 | oh "true" / "false" | 21:04 |
| Shadow__X | ah ok | 21:04 |
| timeless | sp3000: ok, this isn't too hard to do | 21:05 |
| * timeless wonders how to find a theme's "name" | 21:05 | |
| Stskeeps | prolly in the desktop file | 21:05 |
| timeless | what desktop file? | 21:05 |
| qwerty12_N800_ | timeless, mer or maemo? | 21:05 |
| timeless | mer | 21:05 |
| timeless | maemo has a theme picker | 21:06 |
| slonopotamus | hehe | 21:06 |
| * timeless is writing one w/ zenity atm | 21:06 | |
| timeless | i think for now i'm going to assume names come from the theme directory name | 21:07 |
| qwerty12_N800_ | look at the index.theme in a given theme's folder | 21:07 |
| Stskeeps | isnt there simply a .desktop file? :P | 21:08 |
| timeless | what's a theme folder? | 21:08 |
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| qwerty12_N800_ | Stskeeps, backgrounds, not themes | 21:08 |
| Stskeeps | nm | 21:08 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800_: damnit :) | 21:08 |
| timeless | you guys are smoking something | 21:09 |
| timeless | dpkg -L http://letmegooglethatforyou.com/?q=zenity+column+example&l=1 | 21:09 |
| timeless | it has a gtkrc, and a .so, a .la, and debian gunk | 21:09 |
| timeless | nothing more | 21:09 |
| timeless | err | 21:09 |
| timeless | dpkg -L gtk2-engines-ubuntulooks | 21:09 |
| qwerty12_N800_ | timeless, grep Name /usr/share/themes/<theme>/index.theme | sed s/Name=// | 21:09 |
| timeless | that's what provides 'Human' | 21:09 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: dpkg -L hildon-theme-liberty is a better one :P | 21:10 |
| Meiz_mer | what is the keycode for fullscreen key? | 21:10 |
| timeless | ther'es no such file in Human | 21:10 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: not sure Human qualifies as a maemo theme | 21:10 |
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| timeless | so i shouldn't list it? | 21:11 |
| qwerty12_N800_ | is there in liberty | 21:11 |
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| Stskeeps | timeless: think it would have bad effects when trying to switch to it | 21:12 |
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| Stskeeps | http://alone-in-the-light.zenvoid.org/2009/02/dependency-hell.html <- neat | 21:15 |
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| Stskeeps | kinda funny you need to build friggen openjdk to sanely rebuild a base system | 21:16 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:16 |
| opengeekv2 | hey zenvoid soprry for not appearing over here in days | 21:17 |
| opengeekv2 | you have done all the hard work for the system sounds | 21:17 |
| timeless | perl -e '@a = </usr/share/themes/*/index.theme>; %b=(); for $c (@a) { open THEME, "<", $c || next; $d=<THEME> while ($d !~ /^Name=\s*(.*)\s*$/); if ($1 ne "") { $b{$1} = $c; }; close THEME; }; $,="\n"; print %b;' | 21:17 |
| timeless | anyone wanna tell me what's wrong there? :) | 21:17 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: so what they say about perl is true.. it is indistinguishable from noise | 21:17 |
| Stskeeps | and no, i can't even read it ;) | 21:18 |
| opengeekv2 | oh hi si not there sorry | 21:18 |
| Stskeeps | opengeekv2: hehe, he's not in here right now :) | 21:18 |
| timeless | ok | 21:19 |
| t_s_o | i wonder what kind of sound that would made if feed to the audio chip... | 21:19 |
| timeless | perl -e '@a = </usr/share/themes/*/index.theme>; %b=(); for $c (@a) { open THEME, "<", $c || next; do { $d=<THEME>; } while ($d !~ /^Name=\s*(.*)\s*$/); if ($1 ne "") { $b{$1} = $c; }; close THEME; }; $,="\n"; print %b;' | 21:19 |
| timeless | actually works :) | 21:19 |
| lcuk | i expect it will sound like a camel farting | 21:19 |
| t_s_o | still, i dont think anything beats the perl script that outputs 99 bottles of beer, and comes in the shape of a ascii art beer bottle ;) | 21:20 |
| timeless | personally i prefer the perl dolphin | 21:20 |
| t_s_o | meep | 21:20 |
| timeless | ok, so um | 21:21 |
| lcuk | beer == better. you never hear people saying "free as in dolphin" | 21:21 |
| timeless | how do i decide which theme is active? | 21:21 |
| timeless | check the gtkrc file? | 21:21 |
| timeless | or the hildon one? | 21:21 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: the ~/.osso/current one? i guess | 21:21 |
| timeless | there are two files | 21:21 |
| Stskeeps | both point to same theme name i think | 21:21 |
| timeless | current-gtk-theme{,.maemo_af_desktop} | 21:22 |
| timeless | well, they typically do | 21:22 |
| timeless | how little do we care about the edge case :) | 21:22 |
| Stskeeps | honestly, im not sure how they're supposed to work. Diablo spec could be interesting to read at some point. | 21:22 |
| Stskeeps | cos some of this stuff is just far out. :P | 21:22 |
| timeless | you really want to read a 300 page browser ui spec that no one read? | 21:22 |
| timeless | (including the author) | 21:22 |
| Stskeeps | i wouldn't mind a reference. | 21:22 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:22 |
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| Stskeeps | 'lo zenvoid | 21:27 |
| timeless | would it help if i said most of it isn't accurate? | 21:28 |
| zenvoid | Stskeeps: I saw your comment | 21:28 |
| timeless | would you not trust me if i said the document isn't worth the paper it's printed on? | 21:28 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: yes, of course, we're dealing with developers :P | 21:29 |
| Stskeeps | zenvoid: yeah - i was bored the other week and put up a debian-armel buildd | 21:29 |
| Stskeeps | it will put it up on http://repository.mer.tspre.org/lenny/ | 21:29 |
| Stskeeps | its not the prettiest way, but it would do the trick | 21:29 |
| Stskeeps | (from UI POV) | 21:29 |
| Stskeeps | zenvoid: 'build-l-armel' on builder, takes source packages from the repository.mer.tspre.org repo | 21:30 |
| zenvoid | Stskeeps: I was dreaming of compiling the base system with custom cflags. Already done it for chinook, but compiling jauntly is not funny | 21:30 |
| Stskeeps | zenvoid: yeah, i read your post :) | 21:30 |
| zenvoid | so using debian binaries seems better idea for now | 21:30 |
| sp3000 | timeless: yeah, food | 21:31 |
| Stskeeps | i'm at libhildon current so if you want to continue up the dependancy chain and send off the builder cmds you're welcome | 21:31 |
| timeless | sp3000: ok | 21:31 |
| timeless | cmoe here? :) | 21:31 |
| Stskeeps | i just had time to waste so got it bootstrapped enough to libhildon | 21:31 |
| Stskeeps | so glib, gtk, dbus-glib and such are already built | 21:32 |
| timeless | sts? | 21:32 |
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| timeless | my current theme is /usr/share/themes/default | 21:32 |
| timeless | but my named themes don't include that one | 21:32 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: yeah.. its a symlink | 21:32 |
| Stskeeps | hildon-desktop-env, start-hildon | 21:32 |
| timeless | um | 21:32 |
| Stskeeps | er, no, postinst in that | 21:32 |
| Stskeeps | it's a bit weird, really. | 21:32 |
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| timeless | so, i'm supposed to use readlink on the directory? | 21:33 |
| zenvoid | I will give a look, but in this moment I'm so angry with build-dependencies that I will prefer to do other things ;-) | 21:33 |
| Stskeeps | zenvoid: hehe | 21:33 |
| Stskeeps | zenvoid: just be glad you're not building gentoo.. :P | 21:33 |
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| timeless | sts: ok, handled | 21:35 |
| timeless | it now knows i'm using liberty | 21:35 |
| Stskeeps | k | 21:35 |
| zenvoid | have anyone used cellwriter in tablets? I think it would be very good to port it as hildon input method | 21:35 |
| Stskeeps | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mer-committers/m-r/hildon-desktop-env/files , start-hildon and debian/postinst is an interesting read | 21:35 |
| Stskeeps | zenvoid: there's someone working on it actually | 21:36 |
| zenvoid | Stskeeps: ahhh, ok | 21:36 |
| Stskeeps | zenvoid: https://garage.maemo.org/projects/cellwriterhim/ | 21:36 |
| timeless | perl -e '@a = </usr/share/themes/*/index.theme>; %b=(); for $c (@a) { open THEME, "<", $c || next; do { $d=<THEME>; } while ($d !~ /^Name=\s*(.*)\s*$/); if ($1 ne "") { $b{$1} = $c; }; close THEME; }; $,="\n"; if (open THEME, "<", "/home/timeless/.osso/current-gtk-theme") { $e = <THEME>; close THEME; $e =~ s/[\n\r]+//g; $e =~ s{.* "}{};$e =~ s{/gtk-2\.0/gtkrc"}{}; $f = readlink($e) || $e;}; for $c (keys %b) { $e = $b{$c}; $e =~ s{/index\.theme}{}; next | 21:38 |
| timeless | \n";} ' | 21:38 |
| timeless | that code now knows your current and available themes | 21:38 |
| slonopotamus | oh my | 21:39 |
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| qwerty12_N800_ | timeless, what's your secret to staying sane as you write that? :) | 21:39 |
| qwerty12_N800_ | although you'll wanna change /home/timeless | 21:40 |
| timeless | hrm, i think ~/ had issues | 21:41 |
| timeless | it evolves about 1 statement at a time | 21:41 |
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| dick-richardson | I'm getting an abort error when syncing gpe with evolution via multisync: gpesyncd[4162]: GLIB ERROR ** default - file mimedir-vcard.c: line 2524 (mimedir_vcard_write_to_profile): assertion failed: (priv->fn != NULL) | 21:45 |
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| dick-richardson | how can I find which contact is #43? | 21:46 |
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| timeless | fwiw | 22:06 |
| timeless | my theme picker is finished | 22:06 |
| Stskeeps | woo | 22:06 |
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| timeless | how do i tell theme thing to recheck theme ? | 22:08 |
| slonopotamus | hmm. looks like i setup some ugly git overlay | 22:08 |
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| AndrewFBlack | wow cat on computer but she wasn't talking to you guys | 22:09 |
| timeless | she was listening to my line noise instead | 22:10 |
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| AndrewFBlack | hey using xmodmap could I remap the left control or left shift to do numbers since I don't think I will be able to get FN button to work on Mer with Lxde it isn't even seeing the FN button being pushed | 22:11 |
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| timeless | http://markmail.org/message/arrnlxvd36tyyqyq | 22:13 |
| timeless | could someone please convert that into some scripting language supported by Maemo/Mer? | 22:13 |
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| timeless | ok, my theme switcher half works | 22:15 |
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| timeless | qwerty? | 22:20 |
| timeless | if i gave you a script which half changes the theme | 22:20 |
| timeless | could you finish it? | 22:20 |
| timeless | webwizardry.net/~timeless/osso-pick-theme.pl | 22:21 |
| qwerty12_N800 | My bash scripting skills aren't plentiful, perl skills non existent :) | 22:21 |
| timeless | you're free to use the language of your choosing | 22:22 |
| timeless | basically the thing there reads your current theme, let's you choose another, rewrites the theme pref file(s), and switches matchbox | 22:22 |
| timeless | it doesn't switch currently running apps | 22:22 |
| timeless | becuase that seems to require an X/gdk message | 22:23 |
| Stskeeps | kaltsi: happen to have your FOSDEM slides online anywhere? | 22:23 |
| qwerty12_N800 | timeless, i could take a look (can't guarantee anything concrete sorry) but your server wants to execute the script, can you tar it? :) | 22:24 |
| t_s_o | heh, maybe you know this qwerty12_N800. how do hildon-desktop play its system sounds? | 22:25 |
| timeless | oh | 22:25 |
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| lardman | evening | 22:25 |
| Stskeeps | t_s_o: in the newest, libcanberra | 22:25 |
| t_s_o | Stskeeps: newest, as in maemo5? | 22:26 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 22:26 |
| qwerty12_N800 | t_s_o, not sure sorry, I didn't know h-d actually played system sounds :) | 22:27 |
| timeless | http://www.webwizardry.net/~timeless/osso-pick-theme.zip | 22:28 |
| timeless | sorry, using tar takes too much intelligence | 22:28 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | hehe, zip works well :) | 22:28 |
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| t_s_o | never mind, some quick testing here seems to indicate its the hardware, as youamp produced the same "hiss" after stopping playback... | 22:29 |
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| lardman | hi ssvb | 22:32 |
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| p13|2nd | hello | 22:33 |
| Stskeeps | evening p13|2nd | 22:33 |
| p13|2nd | hi sts | 22:33 |
| p13|2nd | reinstalling mer | 22:33 |
| qwerty12_N800 | timeless, In maemo at least, selecting cancel selects "no theme" | 22:33 |
| lcuk | hehe lardman | 22:34 |
| timeless | qwerty: yeah, i'll deal w/ the cancel case some other time | 22:34 |
| timeless | the question is how to get the sytem to update the running apps | 22:35 |
| lardman | hey lcuk | 22:35 |
| timeless | w/o forcing the xserver to restart | 22:35 |
| timeless | which is what i managed to do to get something | 22:35 |
| qwerty12_N800 | yeah | 22:35 |
| lcuk | hiya simon, you have just been collared into cooking at the next summit :D | 22:35 |
| lardman | have I? Bacon? :) | 22:35 |
| lcuk | on the mamiling list | 22:35 |
| * lardman fires up webmail | 22:36 | |
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| timeless | ok, so ... i have themes enough for me | 22:36 |
| timeless | sts: you should be able to take what i did and get it the rest of the way | 22:36 |
| timeless | consider my code Public domain or if necessary MIT | 22:37 |
| Stskeeps | alright, feel free to add it to the sprint overview - there's an item regarding theme switcher | 22:37 |
| p13|2nd | alright, are most people here that were here last time during my last appearance | 22:38 |
| p13|2nd | ? | 22:38 |
| p13|2nd | seems so anyway | 22:38 |
| timeless | sts: we're hunting dinner | 22:38 |
| Stskeeps | p13|2nd: place didn't catch fire yet ;) | 22:38 |
| timeless | please add it :) | 22:38 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: alright | 22:38 |
| p13|2nd | i want to make a public statement here | 22:38 |
| p13|2nd | to anyone i might have offended or annoyed: | 22:38 |
| p13|2nd | I never meant to offend nor irritate anyone. I've installed and ran mer, i'm very impressed. | 22:39 |
| Stskeeps | p13|2nd: before you say anything your future employer may not want to see, this is publically logged :> | 22:39 |
| p13|2nd | you are doing good work and giving these devices a future | 22:39 |
| p13|2nd | lol | 22:39 |
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| Stskeeps | we're giving a lot of things a future :P | 22:40 |
| lardman | lol @ email | 22:41 |
| lcuk | i just like the way he used your full official name | 22:41 |
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| p13|2nd | the internet, it splits | 22:43 |
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| RST38h | Moo? | 22:49 |
| p13|2nd | moo | 22:50 |
| qwerty12_N800 | baa | 22:50 |
| RST38h | Added TI86 | 22:50 |
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| AStorm | hmm, new canola... | 23:09 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | timeless, if around btw, matchbox-remote expects the theme argument to be name of the folder -- not the name given in index.theme i did a dodgy workaround by adding '$f =~ tr/[A-Z]/[a-z]/;' but that is pretty stupid as it expects the theme folder name to be always lowercase... | 23:11 |
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| timelE61i | Lcuk: ping | 23:15 |
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| timelE61i | Lcuk: your .desktop file is +x, please fix | 23:15 |
| timelE61i | So are mtetrinet and othello | 23:16 |
| timelE61i | qwerty: try lc $f | 23:16 |
| qwerty12_N800 | ok | 23:18 |
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| Stskeeps | right, the friggen ctrl-m problem definately put to the ground now | 23:21 |
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| Stskeeps | if you have issues, apt-get update, apt-get dist-upgrade, and gconftool-2 -s -t /apps/osso/inputmethod/keyboard_available true | 23:21 |
| RST38h | Ok, ATI85 1.1 is now in the Extras | 23:24 |
| RST38h | This version supports TI86 as well | 23:24 |
| Stskeeps | it needs the roms i presume? | 23:25 |
| RST38h | no, it includes all the roms | 23:25 |
| Stskeeps | k | 23:25 |
| timelE61i | sounds gray or even black | 23:25 |
| RST38h | TI does not give a damn about these particular models | 23:25 |
| RST38h | (in fact, it does not give a damn about any of them, but these are also discontinued) | 23:26 |
| * Stskeeps restarts the mertop | 23:28 | |
| timelE61i | Discontinued products can compete w/ existing products | 23:28 |
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| timelE61i | What's mertop? | 23:28 |
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| kaltsi | Stskeeps: hey hey, I can put the slides up to the garage site tomorrow, now I'm going to sleep zzz | 23:28 |
| Stskeeps | kaltsi: alright, nini :) | 23:28 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: my oldass 1ghz VIA c3 laptop running x86 mer :P | 23:28 |
| timelE61i | Hey, has anyone here had the mer menus go berserk? | 23:29 |
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| timelE61i | I can't see application manager or control panel | 23:29 |
| timelE61i | And my extras menu has emptyish slots between items | 23:29 |
| * timelE61i dances | 23:31 | |
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| * timelE61i finally found the gtk colorpicker | 23:31 | |
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| lcuk | timelE61i, whats +x? execute? | 23:31 |
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| Stskeeps | you know, maemo could actually do as a netbook distro. | 23:36 |
| Vulcanis | eh | 23:39 |
| Vulcanis | maybe a netbook tablet | 23:39 |
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| Vulcanis | everything's too big for a mouse >.< | 23:39 |
| timelE61i | yes | 23:39 |
| Stskeeps | i mean, on my Mertop i can view my screen from 100m. | 23:39 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:39 |
| Vulcanis | well | 23:40 |
| Vulcanis | its a netbook | 23:40 |
| Vulcanis | it should not be 100m away from you | 23:40 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 23:40 |
| timelE61i | lcuk: yes | 23:40 |
| timelE61i | Does the guy from mypaint irc? | 23:41 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Maemo port or upstream author? | 23:41 |
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| timelE61i | Port | 23:42 |
| timelE61i | The menus and dialogs are icky | 23:42 |
| timelE61i | And the app fails if there's no pressure on your mouse | 23:43 |
| qwerty12_N800 | ~seen anders_gud | 23:43 |
| infobot | anders_gud <n=anders@h194n1fls32o883.telia.com> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 178d 23h 39m 9s ago, saying: 'bye'. | 23:43 |
| Stskeeps | hmm, everything in extras is also i386 built isnt it? | 23:43 |
| Stskeeps | or mostly | 23:43 |
| qwerty12_N800 | not anymore it seems :) | 23:43 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps, yer | 23:43 |
| * Stskeeps goes try some vaguely insane thing | 23:44 | |
| Stskeeps | s | 23:44 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | I find it a waste of time for most things but I've refrained from making arch: armel for my things :) | 23:44 |
| Stskeeps | its most excellent for being able to install stuff into mer i386 ;) | 23:45 |
| Stskeeps | .. why is apt-worker running at 1427% and why doesnt XP run apps over 100% | 23:46 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:46 |
| timelE61i | xp can | 23:48 |
| RST38h | All right, ready | 23:48 |
| timelE61i | It an app is well threaded | 23:48 |
| mavhc | linux is way more efficient, proof at last | 23:49 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps, do you know if gtk-perl works well in mer? | 23:50 |
| Stskeeps | err.. | 23:50 |
| Stskeeps | no clue. it may need recompiling to match the bindings | 23:50 |
| Stskeeps | i had issues with pygtk initially | 23:50 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | bollocks | 23:52 |
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| Stskeeps | damnit, i-am-free doesnt insert nicely ;) | 23:53 |
| timelE61i | ? | 23:54 |
| Stskeeps | the silly "i am rich" clone in extras :P | 23:54 |
| timelE61i | ?? | 23:54 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22698 | 23:55 |
| lcuk | and timelE61i its not over here | 23:56 |
| lcuk | lemme dig deeper | 23:56 |
| Stskeeps | woo \o/ | 23:57 |
| Stskeeps | Mauku works on Mer | 23:57 |
| timelE61i | Mer | 23:57 |
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