IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2009-02-07

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AFBN810Hey if I open a file to edit it with vim in terminal how to I close and save it00:19
qwerty12_N800pressing esc first before the above00:20
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wndor esc, then ZZ00:22
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wndand if you can't press esc, then ctrl-o, then ZZ :-)00:23
qwerty12_N800Almost like windows - a 1001 ways to do one thing :)00:24
GeneralAntillesDamn, Samsung's got an S60 phone. . . .00:24
wndqwerty12_N800, with the exception that with vim you can actually get the job done00:25
qwerty12_N800wnd, hehe, indeed :)00:25
lcukwazd, the met office00:26
* lcuk smiles even more tonight00:27
qwerty12_N800lcuk, seen their prices for businesses? Don't think they're gonna give free access, even for an open source app :/00:27
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lcukif we were america we would be able to use them :) us gov has no copyright over the data it produces00:27
AFBN810ok rebooting to Mer to see if I fixed it00:28
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* wazd packs his bags to UK :)00:30
lcukits a reasonable license for us actually00:30
lcuki thought it was only us gov, but we have access to use the data privately as well00:31
lcukhe material featured on this site is subject to Crown copyright protection unless otherwise indicated. The material may be downloaded to file or printer for the purposes of private study and scientific research. Any other proposed use of the material is subject to a copyright licence available from the Met Office.00:31
mavhcvim, all you need is a 200g n810, and a 1kg manual00:31
qwerty12_N800mavhc, 3kg for emacs? :)00:31
lcukwazd, it might help uk users at the least if it was offered as a template :)00:32
* lcuk is pleased he can see the end of his ui marathon00:33
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wazdlcuk: I've found Met Office Warnings and advisories feeds00:36
wazdlcuk: no sign of the forecast00:36
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b-manAFBN810: here's that  xmodmap you wanted :)  --
AFBN810b-man thanks00:41
mavhcbbc has 3 day rss feeds00:41
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FireFoxwebsplit! XD00:43
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wazdlcuk: I saw html with forecast, but there's no RSS :)00:44
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wazdTrain just crashed into our room I suppose :)00:45
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mavhc wazd00:46
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wazdI know bout BBC, but they have no e-mail for contact :)00:53
wazdThats what started the whole conversation :)00:53
Jaffawazd: looked at the data on - dunno if they've got a weather feed there00:54
* Jaffa wouldn't bother trying to contact UK broadcasters; well, not ITV.00:54
wazdBBC has  the feed :)00:54
wazdBut it hasn't got any contact e-mail to ask them if they mind about its usage)00:55
JaffaIt'll say somewhere already, I'm sure00:55
JaffaYou could try the BBC Duty Office00:55
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wazdI think I'll try to write to the backstage00:56
wazdThey will redirect me to the right place if I miss00:57
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wazdok, done01:06
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, did you get the email I forwarded?01:12
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wazdhehe, weird screenshot:
wazdJust realized that BBC cant forecast for Foscow :)01:19
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GeneralAntilleswazd, can you make the 7-day lettering a little larger?01:24
lbtI now have a general purpose QFingerScrollArea :)01:26
wazdGeneralAntilles: you mean 10-day row?01:28
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GeneralAntilleswazd, er, however many items are down there. :P01:31
wazdGeneralAntilles: well, it now has the biggest possible size to fit 3 digits01:33
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roopeThe info looks       t   i   n   y      on the device screen.01:41
roopeit's small even on my huge desktop monitor.01:41
roopeThe Moscow, Russia dna the -8 is about good size, but otherwise, it's too small.01:41
GeneralAntillesPerhaps it'd be worth sticking to a 7-day to fit more in?01:42
roopeI'd suggest sticking to a 2- or 3-day forecast. Or doing 2 or 3 days properly and then perhaps an icon for the rest of the days.01:42
roopePeople tend to care about today and tomorrow, mostly. Forecast are not accurate anyway after a few days.01:43
wazdit's just a selector01:43
GeneralAntilles10-day forcasts suck anyway.01:43
bensonOr 2/3 days then a graph... graphs are cool.01:43
GeneralAntillesWell, whatever, as long as it's selectable in options.01:43
bensonI use NOAA's 48-hour graph forecast, mainly.01:44
wazdwe'd support as much days as possible)01:44
roopewazd: please try the screenshot on the N810 screen. It's awfully small text.01:44
roopenobody over 40 bothers to even read so small text. :)01:45
* benson is glad he's not over 40.01:45
GeneralAntilleswazd, can we define the low/high text color?01:45
roopeYou're now kind of making the classic mistake of drawing it so that it looks nice on the pc screen.01:45
bensonI often use that size text in osso-xterm...01:45
wazdI woldn't say that it's "omfg soooo small!11" but yep, it's a bit smaller that I thought :)01:46
roopePeople want to be able to glance the weather, quickly. Not have to study the sceren intently for data.01:46
GeneralAntilleswazd, do your mockups at 400x240. :P01:46
wazdIs that a gameboy or something?)01:47
bensonroope: The big picture of a cloud is for people like you. :p01:47
GeneralAntillesIt's about the size of the tablet screen at ~96dpi01:47
wazdI have a screen with high dpi)01:48
wazdalmost tablet;s01:48
* benson runs 120 DPI, and I haven't seen much finer... tablets are 225 DPI.01:49
wazdi have 1280x768 at 9" :)01:49
roopeymmv, but I still think that one of the best rules is to think in terms of a business card. that's about the size of sceren and amount of information you can fit at one time.01:49
bensonYow. Me want.01:50
wazdit's like 192 dpi or something01:50
roopethe n800/n810 screen is coincidentally almost to the millimeter the same size as a normal business card.01:51
bensonHP mininote, or what?01:51
GeneralAntillesI can't wait for high-dpi LCDs and resolution-independent WMs01:51
bensonroope: Yes, I'd noticed that.01:51
* lcuk cant read everything he sees, but can tell what it means :)01:51
roopeso if you can't draw your UI to the back of a business card properly then it's too small. :)01:51
* lcuk prefers to draw his ui on the screen :P01:52
wazdthe main problem is to fit that ammount of info on one screen01:52
lcukwazd ;) let the user decide, some like small text and lots of detail, others like big easy read numbers visible from orbit01:53
wazdI thought to use icons to get rid of "humidity" and so on01:53
wazdso it will borrow me some space to enlarge the font01:53
roopebasically, you shouldn't even try. Or then make it pannable.01:53
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lcukhang on, i just realized wazd, why do you need to show the weather in 2 languages?01:54
roopeWho cares if the air pressure is 755.69 mmHg?01:54
roopeDoes anybody relate to that number. What does it even mean.01:54
wazdlcuk: cause it's multilanguage test :)01:54
roopeDo they need the app?01:54
wazdI care :(01:54
lcukroope, my dad cares, he goes hang gliding01:55
wazdI'm very pressure sesitive (01:55
bensonIt's cool to have it there, I like it.01:55
* lcuk squashes wazd01:55
GeneralAntillesroope, from watching hurricanes all my life, I can usually divine something from pressure.01:55
roopeBut yes. You could have a big today on the left side, a big tomorrow on the right side.01:55
wazdlcuk: the worst language is italian01:55
wazdlcuk: it has ridiculously long words01:55
roopeFor pressure ... something like a chart would tell at least something. you could know if it's going up or down.01:56
roopebut an individual number dosen't really tell anything.01:56
lcukthen make the barometer be a real barometer01:56
GeneralAntilleswazd, OK, stock ticker for pressure. ;)01:56
lcukand if you click it it can show a graph01:56
bensonIf I have to pick from between old-people-friendly fonts and adding more cool (but not very useful) info, I'll go with the info.01:56
GeneralAntillesIdeally there should be options for both use-cases.01:56
lcukbenson, what if you could have both - a palette of available views01:56
lcukchoose what you like or roll your own01:57
lcukits just a data view at the end of the day01:57
bensonThen I wouldn't have to pick; that's what the conditional was there for.01:57
lcuktheres a list of available options ?01:57
bensonI'm a big fan of configurability.01:58
roopeI'm trying my best to remove configurabiility always when possible. :)01:58
wazdWhen I was planning this UI I thought" well, you'll need imediate info bout degrees, so let's make them as large as possible. Other info is secondary so it's smaller"01:58
lcukroope, people like to choose options and click switches and play around.  i personally hated express on covers for phones, but plenty of people made a packet from such a silly thing01:59
benson"when possible"? Is this possibility perchance governed by mobs of angry users with torches? Cause I could get down with that... ;)01:59
roopePeople like to personalize their device, yes.01:59
* lcuk takes away bensons dpad01:59
roopeBut I think it's ... personalization is something a bit different.02:00
roopeI'm all for adding personalization, making the device unique to the user.02:00
wazdI think the oly option you'll have with this screen is wallpaper and icons :)02:00
GeneralAntillesroope, see, the problem with removing configurability is that you end up with broken shit like Modest.02:00
* benson screams.02:00
lcukyes, agreed a horrid options screen with convoluted silly named options which dont mean anything or are finicky or hard is bad.  but giving the user a choice of different alternative views (some old people ones, and some highly technical ones) and a simple way to change them makes life good02:01
GeneralAntillesThat can't fit a plaintext email without wrapping it and screwing up the formatting.02:01
wazdI just can't see any more options to change :)02:01
roopega: well, the more options something like Modest has, the more there is to implement, the more there is that can go wrong.02:01
lcukwazd, then make a brand new one02:01
GeneralAntillesCould the zoom level stick? Or could we change the font size? No and no.02:01
bensonI actually am less concerned about personalization and more with _functional_ configurability, because I don't trust software to come to me perfect.02:01
GeneralAntillesroope, well, Modest seems to have gone wrong enough without any options. :)02:01
lcukno options02:01
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roopeI don't see any correlation between adding configurability and making Modest better.02:01
lcukjust a different alternative view02:01
lcukand ill make one02:01
roopeIt just makes it harder to debug and develop.02:01
lcukand gan can make one02:01
GeneralAntillesroope, have you _used_ the damn thing?02:01
lcukand roope can make one (with no dpad)02:02
lcukand we can let the users choose which they want02:02
roopeI guess you mean the Diablo one?02:02
bensonlcuk: and if they don't like one, _they_ can make one, too!02:02
GeneralAntillesroope, yes, the horrifying abortion of an email client Nokia foisted on us then refused to fix. :\02:02
roopeWell. umm.02:02
wazdlcuk: let's make a console app. Wanna UI? Make it! :)02:02
lcukbenson YES 100% absolutely, and they can let their friends use it02:02
wazdI can't let users to change UI due to legal issues :)02:03
GeneralAntillesroope, yes, I agree with you that too much configurability is undesirable02:03
lcukwazd :) you can only see a fraction of what i can see regarding ui, you have a keen eye but i want everyone to have a say in what screens look like02:03
GeneralAntillesit confuses people and generally turns them off.02:03
roopeI see it more of a development and design problem really.02:04
GeneralAntillesBut at the other end of the spectrum we've got applications that simply aren't functional because A. the defaults are broken (which can be fixed) and B. have no configurability.02:04
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roopeIf something has a hundred settings, and the app works perfectly, having them there doesn't really harm the users.02:04
roopeBut the problem is getting so far: hundred settings makes for a thousand combinations, making them all work perfectly, in all the error cases etc., is pretty much hopeless.02:04
wazdroope: well, I thought thats what OMW was all this time)02:04
bensonGeneralAntilles: I'd say too many twiddly-options are undesirable; it's the controls, not the actual level of configurability, that hurts.02:04
lcukif there is a way for users to configure those settings and store/share them as profiles that is also good02:05
GeneralAntillesWe have these tablet devices which are basically tiny laptops, but Nokia seems insistent on dumbing them down to make them unusable.02:05
wazdOMW always had as maximum configurability as possible02:05
roopesorry, I don't know OMW.02:05
wazdAnd it will have02:05
wazdOMWeather :)02:05
roopeoh, that i know. :)02:05
lcukbenson, user level options should simply be profile based "simple, complex, technical,antique, custom"   only custom should open the complex ui tickboxes etc (thats way in the future though for now)02:05
GeneralAntillesMaking the zoom setting stick or adding font size configuration to Modest would make me much happier02:06
lcukwazd, configurable for technical folks02:06
GeneralAntillesBut every request to fix it is met with "that's too many options"02:06
wazdlcuk: well, I think now OMW has plenty of options configurable thru simple UI :)02:06
wazdlcuk: even I can do that! :)02:06
lcukyes wazd, can you save them and send them to me easily?02:07
lcukso i can share and use your layout?02:07
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GeneralAntillesIn the end, we get an unusable email client.02:07
lcukor do i need to be a technical user of omw as well?02:07
roopega: the goal is to make an usable email client. :)02:07
wazdlcuk: well, sharing layouts is not what OMW does)02:07
wazdlcuk: If we will focus on that type of things we won't have time for weather itself02:08
lcukwazd - but that is the missing link, if you COULD share the layout easily, you could make a whizzbang wazd_technical_dark layout and let others have it02:08
lcukomw is configurable to technical omw users at present.02:08
wazdAgain, we can't allow users to change detailed screen02:08
wazdDue to banner placement02:09
lcukim not asking to02:09
lcukim asking you to send me one of your layouts02:09
roopega: then again, looking at the competition and their email clients, whether they are good or not (and many are) have no correlation between how configurable they are (or if there is, it is an inverse correlation).02:09
wazdYou mwan photoshop?))02:09
lcuki dont want to be a technical user who knows how to configure it02:09
roopeiPhone has a pretty good email with very little configurability, for instance.02:09
lcuki want to just use your wazd_dark_technical view on my tablet02:09
lcukbut then IF gan made a cool one, why cant i ask him to send me his as well?02:10
GeneralAntillesroope, that goal seems to have been missed. In the insistence on as little configurability as possible, I've got an email client that I have to screw with the zoom settings on to make the text wrap properly every time I open an email.02:10
wazdAre we talking bout OMW detailed screen layouts?)02:10
roopega: well, it's a bug of the sw. It shouldn't be up to the user to have to configure something to make them work.02:11
roopeA configuration would be the poor choice here.02:11
wazdlcuk: We. can't. allow. to change ANYTHING in it02:11
wazdlcuk: totally anything02:11
lcukso omw on the new system will be locked ?02:11
bensonwazd: Why not allow changing anything but the logo?02:11
GeneralAntillesroope, having a strong default setup is laudable and all, but it's something that Nokia seems to consistently fail at.02:11
roopega: well. We'll try again. :)02:12
wazdlcuk: Is current OMW layout changable?)02:12
lcuki dont know, im not a technical omw user, ive got it on one of my tablets02:12
roopeThe new version looks better.02:12
bensonor even change the logo, subject to minimum size requirements?02:12
GeneralAntillesroope, and in the mean time I'm stuck on my second tablet in 3 years with an unusable email client.02:12
lcukwazd, is omw on the new device going to be a single static unconfigurable system?02:12
wazdlcuk: It's not, and almost everybody seems to be happy with that02:12
benson(I mean, change the logo's position)02:12
roopega: yes. But well. That's the general problem. where to direct development resources to.02:13
wazdbenson: cause user can set colors that will make the banner be invisible02:13
wazdbenson: like white for example02:13
bensonHmmm... there are technical fixes to that even.02:13
bensonBut harder.02:13
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wazdlcuk: all config options of current OMW will be in the next one02:14
lcukwazd, is this app going to be open source?02:14
wazdlcuk: sue02:14
wazdlcuk: sure02:14
jarrettwoldquick question, is maemo well used on a palm t|x?02:14
wazdNothing is changing02:14
lcukso how will you stop people modifying the layout there?02:14
wazdlcuk: we won't02:14
wazdlcuk: but we won't help them either02:14
lcukok, so if i use the current omw i can make it do what i like02:15
GeneralAntillesjarrettwold, can you even load Linux on the T|X?02:15
lcukshow things or hide things02:15
* benson ponders oomw: other omw, with full configurability...02:15
wazdlcuk: If you'll try to remove banner and make a .deb for it for example - you'll just make harm for OMW :(02:16
lcukwhen i make it do things and create a layout in a certain format, that layout is saved somewhere in ~ isnt it02:16
lcukwazd, i dont see why you are against changing anything?02:16
lcukits a screen layout02:16
wazdlcuk: because of fricking banner :)02:17
lcukwhat banner?02:17
wazdlcuk: It allows us to use different weather sources legaly02:17
lcuki can use the met office bbc source legally02:17
lcuki am in the uk02:17
wazdlcuk: BBC sign on the screenshot02:17
lcuki am a uk citizen02:17
lcukit is produced by the uk government02:17
lcuki dont need no frikkin banner02:17
bensonYou can't change it, because in Soviet Russia, banner fricks you! ;)02:18
wazdlcuk: You can't retranslate info without permission02:18
lcukcan i please have a configurable app :)02:18
lcukthey give an rss feed for a reason02:18
lcuki can use that data for SCIENTIFIC RESEARCH if i want02:18
wazdyou can have that info just for your personal use02:18
lcukits research to know the weather02:18
jarrettwoldjust use noaa02:18
wazdyou know, I've spent much time reading LA's :)02:19
jarrettwoldwhat region is lcuk looking for weather data from?02:19
bensonIn US law, at least, facts are ! copyrightable; unless they make you agree to a license, you can re-present the facts in different presentation, and they have no copyright claims...02:20
bensonjarrettwold: NOAA for weather in the UK? Let me know how that works out. :p02:20
lcukjarrettwold, im not, im just arguing with wazd about his stupid insistance on a legally enforcable banner in an app02:20
jarrettwoldoh it's a banner02:20
jarrettwoldget over it02:20
lcukbut i would use the met office data02:21
wazdwe can stick with one source without the banner if you like02:21
wazdThat will help us a lot in fact :)02:21
lcuk\o/ yayyy and people in their country can configure sources how they like02:21
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bensonSo with (as I understand) the data being available for personal use, displaying it with no banner should be quite alright legally.02:22
lcuknow we have got over that, how do we let users share the layouts02:22
lcukbenson, i can configure a home weather station to produce rss data02:22
jarrettwoldnoaa weather for the UK02:23
bensonCSS might be a little heavyweight, but it would work beautifully..02:23
lcukbenson, weather data sits nicely in rss02:23
bensonjarrettwold: Current observations, not forecasts?02:24
wazdYou grant TWC and RSS the right to edit, copy, display, publish and distribute any materials made available on the Services by you.02:24
jarrettwoldcurrent observations02:24
lcukregarding your facts thing benson, what tempr and pressure it is NOW are facts, but a 3 day forecast is derived data02:24
wazdthat's what says02:24
wazdand we use it :)02:24
jarrettwoldbenson:  "Latest7 PM (0) Feb 0628 (-2)24 (-4)29.35 (0994)NNW 3"02:24
bensonFair enough.02:24
jarrettwoldfor benson UK02:24
wazdaw fuck02:25
* benson isn't in the UK, he was pointing at lcuk. ;)02:25
wazdwrong line02:25
jarrettwoldah lol02:25
lcukthat looks like perl code to me02:25
jarrettwoldso anyhow, feel free to jack US data to your hearts content02:26
lcukwhat does it do?02:26
jarrettwoldthat's not perl ;)02:26
lcukare you SURE! ? :D02:26
wazdYou may not modify, publish, transmit, display, participate in the transfer or sale, create derivative works, or in any way exploit, any of the content, in whole or in part.02:26
* benson tried it in perl, and it wiped 3 HDDs. :(02:26
FireFoxlol XD02:26
lcukwazd, my browser does that by downloading and interpreting the XML into a clickable visual tree02:26
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wazdExcept as otherwise expressly permitted under copyright law, no copying, redistribution, retransmission, publication or commercial exploitation of downloaded material will be permitted without the express written permission of TWC and the copyright owner.02:27
bensonYeah, so until forecasts get a lot better, I buy that they're not facts. Didn't really think of that.02:27
wazdso we have to get that written permission to use the service02:27
jarrettwoldoh well on that note I'm off to find support for palm t|x linux02:27
bensonAlthough, if the forecast were _always_ right, wouldn't it be a fact...02:28
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wazdlcuk: does what?02:28
lcukit copies and transmits the data02:28
lcukand creates a derivative02:28
lcukcos they supply xml flat text02:29
lcukfirefox converts it to a tree for me!02:29
rzrI was wondering , how close is maemo5 to mer ?02:29
wazdlcuk: it doesn't transmit the data, it gets the data02:29
bensonAnd VNC copies it too. Eep!02:29
lcukdo you think firefox has permission?02:29
lcukOMG!  what about when it gets copied over the pci express bus!02:29
lcukor onto a blit window!02:29
Stskeepsrzr, depend on what level you compar02:29
* benson hides under the desk.02:30
lcukwazd, does firefox have permission to get the data and process it into something else?02:30
rzron UI at least ? if maemo is based on QT i guess not02:30
bensonAre the copyiright police coming?02:30
Stskeepswe use maemo 5 pre-alpha2 gtk, libhildon, etc02:30
lcukhow would they logistically manage all the feeds?02:30
wazdlcuk: you know, I'm not a lawyer, I'm a designer, I'd better ask for permission than face problems in future :)02:30
lcukbenson, you would think02:30
Stskeepsand maemo 5 is not qt afaik02:30
bensonrzr: no, maemo5 is not Qt based.02:30
lcukwazd, why are you deciding which weather service *I* use?02:31
bensonIt will have available Qt support.02:31
rzrI was wondering about the fosdem demos :)02:31
rzrunfortunately i wont be there02:31
bensonAnd the next one will have side-by-side, fully supported Qt and GTK; beyond that, we don't know...02:31
Stskeepsrzr, maemo4 ran on beagle without big changes afaik..02:32
bensonBut dropping GTK seems highly unlikely even then.02:32
wazdlcuk: I'm deciding which provider to ship OMW with02:32
rzrok thx for these infos I'll have to announce fosdem and try to promote mer02:32
wazdlcuk: to avoid legal problems02:33
benson~lart copyright law for great justice02:33
* infobot calls copyright law on the phone ... the lights are on but nobody's home for great justice02:33
lcukwazd, 1 provider?  what if it doesnt go close enough - my met office feed does north west uk02:33
lcukroope, can we find out which country a tablet is located in?02:34
wazdlcuk: we're now making the support of multiple sources02:34
lcukwazd, why not hold a small db of countries and providers02:34
Stskeepsrzr, mer is basically a different approach to a maemo platform.. some things are similar, some are way different02:34
lcukthat way, i can happily have my met office and you can have your fixed one which needs a logo02:35
lcukand because you have not chosen which is used its not your personal problem about copyright02:35
wazdlcuk: I'm not forcing you to use OMW)02:35
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rzrStskeeps: mer is not planned at fosdem ? is it02:35
lcukits a nice desktop widget to have :)02:35
Stskeepsrzr, correct, but some mer (ab)users are going02:36
wazdI don't know why are you so mad bout configuring every pixel02:36
lcukim not02:36
wazdyou are)02:36
lcuki just dont like fixed unavoidable areas02:36
lcuki design in a resolution independent manner i really dont care about a single pixel02:36
lcuklook at any of my screenshots - none are pixel perfect, but they have an organic realizm to them :)02:37
Stskeepsbbl sleep02:37
wazdbtw, legal agreement with Foreca gave us much more than simle RSS feed02:37
wazdStskeeps: gnite02:37
lcukgnite Stskeeps02:37
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lcukwazd, about my original thinking, if i just emailed someone the omweather config options from my ~ and they put em on their tablet, would their omweather look like mine?02:38
wazdbenson: funny that you mentioned graphs cause I'm working on them right now)02:38
wazdlcuk: I'm not the right person to ask bout it02:39
wazdlcuk: you better ask Vlad02:39
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bensonwazd: cool, I may have to start using omw then. :)02:40
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wazdAnd about the banner - I think it's pretty fair to show it to honor the work of forecast-service-guys02:44
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wazdThey are not forcing us to use corporate colors for example, they just happy to be properly mentioned without ask02:45
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bensonOh, I'm quite happy to have the banner there... I just don't like restrictions on configurability, especially an overly-broad lockdown of _everything_ when only one thing needs to be controlled.02:49
bensonBut if the permitted layout is good enough, I can put up with not being able to change it, even if I'm not real happy.02:50
wazdbenson: I was talking about detailed view only02:53
wazdbenson: all desktop stuff will remain and without any banners02:53
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wazdbenson: I really don't see any problem in making detailed view non-configurable. I just have to make it well to make most of peole happy with it02:55
wazdbenson: and we will not work for 10 people to make UI configurable cause it's a waste of precious time. We already working as hard as we can02:56
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wazdHow about bolded version?
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wazdand a way enlarged version. That's totaly max that I can get from that layout03:15
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* lcuk fell out04:01
* b-man watches some Austin Powers04:03
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trogdorwho throws a shoe?  Honestly.04:27
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b-mansome crazy person :)04:28
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meetpattyanyone good with usbnet who could help me out04:41
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user123what is it gonna take for ogg to be supported by nit's??05:06
user123even after loading the package, my radio stream does not play  :(05:07
user123how many votes does the ogg bug take before it is taken seriously??05:09
GeneralAntillesWhat's wrong with 3rd-party support?05:10
sandmanuser123: You could always code it yourself, you know.05:10
sandmanHeaven forbid.05:10
GeneralAntillesogg support has already been put together.05:10
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user123tell me what has tto be done for that station to work, svp05:11
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user123ogg support would be such an easy way to appease the foss crowd  ...   why not?05:19
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GeneralAntillesuser123, as usual, blame lawyers.05:21
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user123that is such fud, GeneralAntilles05:21
bensonuser123: mplayer
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GeneralAntillesuser123, no, that's truth.05:21
GeneralAntillesIt's the lawyer's fault.05:22
bensonworks fine here.05:22
GeneralAntillesIf it were up to anybody but the lawyers, we'd have ogg support.05:22
GeneralAntillesBut it's not, so we don't.05:22
user123mplayer?   i'll try and load it05:22
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GeneralAntilles3rd-party support works fine, anyway.05:22
GeneralAntillesSo it's not worth getting worked up over.05:22
user123ogg is /the/ reason i bought the nit...   :(05:24
user123i just bought a sansa clip because the nit was so faulty there05:25
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GeneralAntillesogg player is a strange reason to buy a $400 pocket-laptop.05:25
user123$250 at newegg.. and i bought two!05:26
user123sorry, tigerdirect05:26
bensonTo listen to an ogg stream with each ear?05:26
bensonAnyway, I guess it's good that ogg works just fine, then.05:27
user123one for my housemate...05:27
bensonmplayer, and anything that uses mplayer as a backend, handles that stream.05:27
bensonShould work, I think.05:28
bensonNever used it.05:29
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user123stream still opens in regular player, not kmplayer..05:30
bensonSo open it in kmplayer instead?05:31
user123so irritating, this should just work!05:31
bensonIt does.05:31
bensonJust type mplayer
user123how to open stream in kmplayer?05:32
bensonIDK, I've never used kmplayer.05:32
bensonBut open it up, and it should have some "open URL" or some such.05:32
user123have to type a url?  damn...05:32
user123no multiwindow05:33
bensoncopy/paste works, this is not an iphone. ;)05:33
user123no copy in xchat05:33
bensonHmmm.. then xchat is evil. Try bliond keyboard shortcut?05:34
infobotbenson meant: Hmmm.. then xchat is evil. Try blind keyboard shortcut?05:34
bensonOr copy it from the station's website.05:35
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user123did not work .. error05:37
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bensonuser123: what error?05:38
user123this should just work  ...   it is a free codec05:38
user123long error..05:39
user123name media server not found05:39
user123or similar05:39
bensonIf I had to guess, I'd say a typo in the URL.05:40
bensonDefinitely doesn't sound like a codec issue.05:40
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user123i copied from the web link..05:40
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GeneralAntillesThere's copy in XChat05:41
GeneralAntilleson the VKB05:41
user123oh nm05:41
bensonjust checked, and I don't even _have_ ogg-support (or whatever) installed.05:41
bensons all you need, as expected for a free codec. :)05:42
user123no mplayer in default repo05:42
bensonThen the url there is probably wrong; try going another layer in.05:43
user123sorry, this is too frustrating05:43
bensonIIRC I saw a link to an m3u, which had the name of the stream.05:43
user123thanks for your attention, but i am disappointed with this crap05:44
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GeneralAntillesSome people are just easily daunted.05:44
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bensonWhy is everything working the same blinking way I do it on my desktop somehow _not_ "just working"???05:45
GeneralAntillesSome people. . . .05:45
derfbenson: Are you crazy? mplayer's support for Xiph codecs is pretty awful.05:46
bensonIt works for me.05:46
derfVorbis is the only one that mostly works.05:46
bensonI don't mess with much media of any description, but when I do, mplayer seems fine...05:47
derfTry seeking in a Theora file sometime.05:47
* benson wonders if he's ever _seen_ a theora clip.05:47
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bensonI know the codec's out there, but have made no effort to find some and try it.05:48
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bensonAt any rate, since a vorbis stream was the only thing at issue here, not sure how I'd be "crazy" for thinking it was "just working" in this context. :p05:49
derfIt was more the "as expected for a free codec" part.05:49
derfmplayer developers hate Ogg, do not get along with Xiph developers, and don't take our patches.05:50
bensonAh, ok. Again, a response to his allegation that "ogg is a free codec, it should just work", when in fact it was just working (for me).05:50
* benson detects blood-feud05:51
* benson hides05:51
bensonIs there some alternative that plays everything mplayer does, and does Xiph codecs better?05:52
bensonIf so, I don't mind trying it; I've no dog in this fight.05:52
derfWell, vlc at least accepts patches.05:52
derfAnd they also play pretty much everything.05:53
* benson remembers VLC being the abomination of slowness on his windows machine.05:53
derfWell, you know. Windows.05:53
bensonBut it may not be as bad on Linux, obviously.05:53
bensonMplayer does do much better on Windows, in my experience.05:54
bensonIt does better than WMP, as well.05:54
bensonStill, performance in ports doesn't mean much to me, so maybe I'll give VLC a shot sometime.05:54
bensonYAY! 256 color screen and rxvt now functional!05:56
bensonNow I just need a nick-coloring irssi script.05:57
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Shadow__Xinteresting thing i found07:29
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Shadow__Xif you use tversity you can view videos on the nx0 series07:29
Shadow__Xalthough tversity is a windows app it has a preference for them07:29
Shadow__Xit should behave like mdeatomb07:29
* pupnik uploads pizza07:34
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* Shadow__X tries to download pizza getting rst's07:36
* b-man is shocked by how good the sw flash effects are on
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AddisonGreeting all!  :)07:42
johnxmorning "_07:42
AddisonHey, super quick.  How can I search my tablet for any files that contain the word "UTF" somewhere in it, including all root areas?07:43
AddisonJust need the command to type here peoples.  :)07:43
johnxfrom the command line: find / -name "*UTF*"07:43
AddisonExcellent!  Thank you John!07:43
airthere is also a "search" item on the menu07:44
johnxyou'll get lots of errors as it strays into /proc though, so you might want to: find / -name "*UTF*" > /home/user/MyDocs/search.txt07:44
johnxfor later perusal07:44
airsame with /dev07:45
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johnxair, will search from the menu look in / ?07:45
AddisonWhat's the deal with getting an error called "Too many open files"?07:45
AddisonI'm not running anything besides Xterm at the moment.07:45
AddisonOh nuts.  You were right on top of that John!07:46
bensonThat means it went into proc and tried opening all the files iot had open, and then opening all of _them_, and so on, till it maxed out the number of open files permitted.07:46
airjohn: never used it but it looks like it will search all files in /07:46
johnxAddison, I think it will find what you want anyways, even though it complains07:47
pupnikgood use of sound b-man07:48
pupnikhey Addison -- missed you last time07:48
AddisonHey pupnik!  What's up you stupid twat waffle?!!! Good to see you again!  :)07:49
pupniknice.  never been called twat waffle07:49
pupnikbeen studying "Yes, Minister"07:49
AddisonWell, you deserve it.07:49
AddisonI think the girl said "mini....something else" but you were selectively listening.  *lol*07:50
AddisonHey, be right back in two minutes.07:50
GeneralAntillesWho's upgraded to the new Canola release?07:50
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bensonGeneralAntilles: I did, but I don't use it.07:52
GeneralAntillesMuch faster.07:52
* benson just installed it to get dependencies for some other broken package.07:52
aircan packages be masked so new versions dont show up in application manager?07:53
GeneralAntillesair, not with the Application Manager.07:54
airi dont want to upgrade carman to 0.7 and cant use update-all with it in the list07:54
GeneralAntillesWhy don't you want to upgrade?07:54
airit doesnt have the scan tool feature that 0.6 has07:54
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AddisonHey pupnik, last night I finally cracked the whole IBM graphics trouble using Telnet which I posted here...07:55
AddisonYou interested?07:55
GeneralAntillesair, I'm filling an enhancement. . . .07:55
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* GeneralAntilles still isn't used to the new Bugzilla layout.07:55
AddisonYou're probably the only one still archiac like me who might appreciate it.07:55
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pupnikAddison: thanks - reading07:59
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pupnikthat keyboard layout is sweet08:00
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AddisonYeah, with that font I get a perfect 80x25 layout.  The keyboard takes up the bottom so basically I'm left with an 80x24 which most telnet sites prefer.08:01
* b-man sleeps, g'night all08:01
AddisonSee ya b-man.08:01
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AddisonHey benson!  Never seen you around before.  You've posted a few times after me and always wanted to say hi to ya.08:02
pupnikno time - brain is elsewhere Addison - cheers08:02
AddisonOkay.  Have fun with you and your brain.08:02
bensonHiya! :)08:03
AddisonI might have time next weekend to chat again pupnik.08:03
GeneralAntillesI can now no longer file bugs on Diablo. . . .08:03
AddisonSo benson, are you old school like me and ArnimS?08:03
bensonOld school how?08:04
airgeneral: why not?08:04
bensonNo BBS/telnet gaming, etc.08:04
bensonBut I like Doom II08:04
GeneralAntillesair, installed timeless's improved en_US strings, so most of my strings will no longer match Nokia's. ;)08:04
johnxGeneralAntilles, well, at least that's consistently mirroring the policy on fixing bugs for Diablo :)08:04
AddisonYou don't telnet?  I thought you did for some reason.08:04
GeneralAntillesjohnx, ;)08:04
bensonOnly for "real work", and more ssh than telnet.08:05
AddisonAre you in the medical field or am I confusing you with bunason? (sp?)08:05
bensonProbably confusing me with bunanson.08:05
bensonI'm in engineering.08:06
AddisonWhat do you do then?08:06
AddisonOoh, must be nice to have a huge brain!08:06
bensonAerospace engineering, grad student.08:06
bensonOnly a student, so I'm still working on getting my brain huged. ;)08:07
AddisonSo you're not planning our next trip to mars then?08:07
bensonWell, not officially...08:07
benson(Ok, not at all.)08:07
AddisonIf I was an astronaut, I would be so bitter if I got called up for that mission.  Basically it would be like, "We've chosen you to die a horrible, searing death for our country.  You've made peace with your family members, right?"08:08
airgeneral: oh nice, thanks08:08
bensonATM I'm wrangling textbooks mostly, but I should be digging in to some serious research over the next few months.08:09
AddisonHey benson, what's your take on the whole dark rift thingie coming up in 2012?  Is that all just a bunch of superstitious bull honkey?08:09
bensonAddison: Maybe I'm young, stupid, and relatively unattached, but I'd _kill_ for that mission.08:10
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AddisonEven knowing that you'd probably would most likely be screaming just before the moment of death?08:11
bensonThen again, you might not die. Even probably wouldn't die.08:11
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bensonAnd there's all sorts of ways to die, some of them involve screaming (at much lower intensity) for years.08:12
AddisonYou'd have no spine left by the time you reached Mars.  Makes it a little tough to ambulate without one.08:13
bensonI think most space crashes are likely easier than a lot of old-age/disease type deaths.08:13
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bensonAs for 2012, not sure what dark rift thingie?08:13
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AddisonThe dark rift thingie where the sun is in the center of the galaxy, it only occurs every 26 thousand years.08:14
benson(I'd probably put it down in the superstitious bull column though, just guessing.)08:14
AddisonThe Myans calendar was based on this principle.08:15
bensonAnd it's supposed to happen in 2012?08:15
AddisonYeah, you never heard of December 12 (I think), 2012?08:15
AddisonI heard that back when I was a little newb and it scared the shitters out of me.  :(08:15
benson12/12/12? sounds auspicious, but no, I hadn't.08:16
bensonI'm kind of sitting here chuckling now that I have.08:16
bensonI wouldn't worry about it, but I'm gonna google and search for more details.08:16
AddisonWhoops, sorry, it's going to happen on the 21st.08:16
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pupnikour sun does not pass through the center of the galaxy08:18
pupnikplease filter the bs from the science08:18
bensonPasses through the plane of the galaxy, pupnik.08:19
pupnikoh ok08:19
bensonPassing through the center would be cause for alarm, of course. XD08:19
pupnikastrology then08:19
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AddisonSo in a nutshell, should I be hoarding water and defending my home in combat mode that day?  :)08:20
bensonAddison: I'm more worried about the Prophet getting elected.08:21
AddisonWho's the Prophet?08:21
bensonOh, definitely, but you should _always_ be hoarding water and defending in combat mode.08:21
bensonHeinlein reference.08:21
bensonHappens in 201208:22
AddisonViva la revolution!08:22
AddisonGive me a link to Heinlein, yeah?08:22
AddisonLike got a page or something?08:22
AddisonYou're worried about Bob?  *lol*08:23
bensonThe book that's from would be Methuselah's Children, I think, though I haven't actually read it.08:23
benson(Or whichever one it was.)08:23
* benson needs to find more time for reading/listening to SF.08:24
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AddisonI once thought of a great SF movie.  It's a guy that built a machine using tachyon energy to send light signals faster than the speed of light to himself.  Uses it to win the lottery and crack wallstreet stocks to fund his project even more then presents it all to the government.08:29
AddisonSo far, I've gotten almost the first sentence written...08:29
AddisonIt's "In the beginning...."08:29
AddisonWhat do you think of it so far?08:29
bensonThat's a good start; I think you could have a real best-seller start with that.08:30
AddisonThe way it would have to work is to have two rooms, one to send the signal, the other to receive it.08:30
AddisonMy mind kind of wobbles on how you would send it to yourself though.  Because once you received the message, I think you would have to then send that message into the machine to receive it, which you already did.08:31
AddisonCrap, this is giving me a headache just thinking about it.08:31
johnxAddison, watch 'Primer' :)08:31
AddisonWhat's primer?08:32
bensonThat actually puts me in mind, a bit, of some book I read... only know I can't remember the title, or author.08:32
johnxtelling you about it would ruin it, but based on what you were just talking about I think you'd like it :)08:32
AddisonSo it's a book john?  I really hate books!08:33
AddisonCan't I just see the movie?08:33
bensonHe told you to watch it.08:33
johnxyou're in luck: it's a movie08:33
bensonWatching books is quite boring.08:33
johnxbenson, but it's also easy. I passed quite a few classes in high school through book-brain osmosis08:33
bensonIt's not the same one I'm thinking of.08:33
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AddisonOoh, nice!  It actually got good reviews as well!08:34
benson(Which was a book.)08:34
Addison68 is a great, overall score for Metacritic.08:34
johnxAddison, do yourself a favor and don't read up too much before watching it. it's better if it's a surprise I think08:34
AddisonReading is for retards and small farm animals.... no offense, john. :)08:35
AddisonI'm part of the I want it all right now generation.08:35
johnxwhich generation is that?08:36
bensonIf you're a speed reader, you could go through it faster than the movie. :p08:36
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AddisonLike I'm one who will stand in front of a microwave screaming "COME ON!!!!!", "IT'S ALREADY BEEN 27 DAMN SECONDS!"  "WHERE'S MY DINNER ALREADY!?!!!!?"08:36
bensonAddison: Turn the microwave on; it cooks faster.08:36
AddisonI never liked you benson.  *lol*08:37
johnxyou walked into that one :) (Also picturing small farm animals reading Heinlein...)08:37
AddisonDespite "The Primer" not having any scenes of tawdry smut action and is rated pg-13.  I think I'll check it out this weekend if I have the time.08:38
AddisonI'm still wanting to see 4 months, 3 weeks, and 2 days though.  I'd like to see what all the hype is over this movie.08:39
* johnx is totally out of touch with current movies...08:43
AddisonI think it was made a year ago, john.  It's an independent Russian film on a girl wanting an abortion.08:44
AddisonI don't think it would be your type of movie.08:45
johnxah. yeah, I'll probably pass08:45
AddisonNot really one for me either, but the ratings for it were through the roof.  And since I'm such a sheep, I'd like to see it.08:45
bensonsheep: aren't they small farm animals? :p08:46
Vulcanisapparently the welsh are quite partial to them.08:46
AddisonF ewe, benson!  *lol*08:46
AddisonSorry, bad joke.08:46
AddisonI've got issues, but I'm trying to work on them.  :)08:47
bensonheheh. I'm not Welsh, though.08:47
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AddisonHey, so does anyone know if there is actually a character table for "UTF-8" encoding on the tablet?  I've been looking but I don't think I've found one.08:48
AddisonI'd like to make a new selection for character encoding using Xterm but I'm not seeing how it's programmed.08:49
bensonA character table?08:49
AddisonLike this one.08:49
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bensonUTF-8 is a way of expressing the whole unicode space.08:49
AddisonI'd like to have Xterm feature this without having to do the whole Konwert translation on the fly using Telnet.08:50
bensonSo there's no table involved.08:50
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AddisonOkay, so what if I were to change the Latin (ISO 8859-1) to that table I just showed?  What might be my first step?08:51
johnxsounds like you need a utf-9 capable terminal like gnome-terminal or urxvt08:51
bensonIf you can make xterm use raw 8-bit instead of UTF-8, you could use a CP437 font like:08:52
johnxs/-9/-8 of course08:52
* johnx disappears for a bit08:52
benson(I dunno, is our xterm even UTF-8? johnx sounds like it's not.)08:52
AddisonXterm doesn't take .pcf or bdf fonts, unless I'm missing something here.08:52
bensonShould be able to use X fonts I think.08:53
AddisonI thought it could only handle .ttf font format.08:53
AddisonOkay, how so benson?08:53
bensonInstall them system-wide, and tell xterm to use them :p08:53
* benson looks to see if we have system-wide font directory tree...08:54
AddisonI need something that I can specifically type into Xterm, I don't know any coding.08:54
AddisonSo when you're in Xterm, and you can choose the few limited types of coding, is there a way to overwrite one to basically makes a new type of encoding such as CP437?08:55
AddisonIt's actually not that important.  I can already get CP437 encoding now, but I have to use konwert filters.  I was thinking if I could hack a current encoding then I would be able to get a better speed on Telnet.08:57
AddisonIt's probably not worth the extra effort though.  I just thought it might be a fun challenge to do so.08:58
bensonAre you cool with running, say, rxvt, not osso-xterm?09:00
AddisonOkay, sure.  How can I lose?  :)09:01
AddisonJust to let you know though, I can't understand a thing with my tablet.  All I'm really good at is math which sometimes helps out on a few posts.09:02
AddisonI keep thinking that my request is simple.  All I would like is for the tablet to be like a little mini PC while on Telnet and nothing else.09:03
bensonWell, the trouble is that you don't have a VGA card, with CP437 in ROM, on your tablet.09:03
AddisonEvery time I post a topic on this, all I get is a dim flicker of recognition though.  *lol*09:03
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AddisonHey benson, I think I'm beginning to haze in and out of consciousness.  I should call it a night for now.  Was part of a pelvic fracture, female hernia, and an acute appendicitus that ruptured today.  Need to decompress and drink a few offline.09:09
AddisonI'll try and be back again next weekend if possible.09:09
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bensonMaybe I'll even have an answer.09:09
AddisonGreat chatting with you though.  You were everything cool I thought you would be!  :)09:10
AddisonSee ya!09:10
bensonThis is an interesting problem. ;)09:10
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bensonsee ya09:10
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* fireun shakes his head and goes to bed09:22
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pupnik"If all government spending were expressed by printing  then there would gradually develop in society an irresistible force to reduce it to a level that the people can afford." - pupnik10:20
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`0660did you just quote yourself? :)10:34
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jaemgood $localfuzzytime, everyone11:02
JaffaGeneralAntilles: the HAM one?11:08
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Stskeepsmorning jaffa11:14
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ZicStskeeps: you make me think to take a look at the season 10 of Stargate: SG-111:43
Zicthanks :]11:44
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StskeepsZic: heh, i so lost track of sg-1.. saw continuum and last episode and that was it11:46
ZicStskeeps: me too, I can't recall where I have stopped to watch on the french TV...11:47
Zicseason 8 I think, but anyway, I can't remind details so, just jumping directly to the last season 1011:48
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wazdhello everybody)12:00
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Stskeepsmorning wazd12:20
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* Jucato is amazed at the signs of life12:22
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lcukmornin dead chan12:24
* lcuk curses sleeping on a mathematical problem, my dreams are so strange12:25
JucatoI slept on twitter/ last night... strange dreams as well12:26
Jucatoof course nothing beats the number of dreams I've had about the n810...12:26
lcukis that legal?12:27
* lcuk ponders talking it through to see whether he can make sense of it12:28
* wazd dreams bout the plane to sleep in that heads from Japan to California :)12:28
Jucatoquick question: is it normal that the N810 doesn't pick up my home wifi immediately, while the laptop has no problems? it some takes a couple of tries... but sometimes instant...12:28
lcukJucato, no problems here, but i use adhoc between all my devices12:29
StskeepsJucato: there's a scanning interval thing12:29
lcukbut in work the wifi is a bit flaky in the backoffices12:29
JucatoStskeeps, I set it to never and do it manually12:29
StskeepsJucato: well then it doesnt catch the beacons..12:30
lcukmmmmm beacons12:30
JucatoStskeeps, but if I set an interval, will it automatically connect even if I don't want it to?12:31
Jucatolcuk, vacons12:31
Corsachmhm, is there a midori package for maemo or just for Mer?12:31
lcukcheck your router doesnt have some odd random low power or hidden setting12:31
Jucatooh well, I guess I can olways turn it off :)12:31
Jucatolcuk, no problem with the router. laptop gets the wireless just fine12:32
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lcuklaptop might just store info that the 810 might be throwing away, worth just a quick look around its settings for anything obvious?12:33
Jucatohm.. ok...12:33
lcukwhat signal strength do you get it at12:33
Jucatowhen connecting12:34
lcukare there other hotspots around?12:34
Jucatobut atm I'm a bit far, 2/4 bars12:34
lcuktis odd then, mine doesnt misfire and fail to see - is the ap set to hidden?12:34
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Jucatohm..  lemme check12:36
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Jucatoit isn't12:38
Jucatooh well,. it's just a random annoyance, not a fatal problem (I hope)12:39
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* aquatix waves from FOSDEM12:46
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Jucatoooh fosdem :)12:48
wazdbeer party (9912:49
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aquatixwazd: hell yeah12:57
Stskeepsaquatix: anything interesting going on there?12:57
aquatixStskeeps: at the debian keytalk now12:57
Stskeepswish i could have gone but it conflicted with gf being here :P12:58
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aquatix(by bdale btw)12:59
aquatixStskeeps: ah :(12:59
aquatixpriorities eh? ;)12:59
Stskeepsaquatix: yeah..12:59
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Stskeepsright, back to deciphering BME13:00
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Stskeepswell, i have pretty much cracked how to get the status information out13:01
Jucatobad priorities ;)13:02
StskeepsJucato: since i only see my fiancée a week a month currently, it does up the priority a bit13:02
dexterkI have a idea, if I cp -rf / to SD card,then boot from the SD like boot the debian beta, is that a way to clone OS 2008 to SD card?13:02
Stskeepsdexterk: there's a guide for cloning OS13:03
* lcuk wishes he couldv been at fosdem, but it conflicted with getting code finished13:03
Stskeepsor use penguinbaits stuff13:03
qwerty12dexterk, that's basically what the cloning scripts do.. but you'll have more success using tar13:03
dexterkStskeeps: not just copy ?13:03
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dexterkqwerty12: I really want to try ,lol13:04
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* qwerty12 doesn't bother with cloning, much more refreshing to mount a stock rootfs on the computer and tar it up and unpack on my partition13:04
dexterkI am go to try my idea13:05
lcuk~lart my blitter routine13:06
* infobot whips my blitter routine with a wet and grimy noodle just because13:06
* wazd wishes he could've been at fosdem, but it conflicted with Russia x(13:08
StskeepsBME keeps track of how long time it has been charging13:08
Jucatowhile looking for the "booting from sd card" instructions, is this setup possible: I'm going to partition the internal 2GB card in to two (mabye 1GB/1GB or 1.5GB/.5GB), keep one of those two as the orignal "Internal Memory Card" (mostly for swap) and boot into the other one (the larger of the two). the external memory will remain for data13:08
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lcukHAHAHA! it works13:11
MeizirkkiJucato: seems fine13:11
* lcuk makes it adjust for aspect ratio13:11
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JucatoMeizirkki: thanks13:11
aquatixwazd: :)13:11
aquatixwazd: in russia, FOSDEM comes to you?13:12
Jucato"Why would we want to boot from a flash card? To improve performance (note, this is dependent on the quality of your flash card)." <-- what's the quality of the internal 2G memory?13:12
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* lcuk smiles like a madman13:23
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* Jucato wonders if a madman could probably answer his question :)13:24
slonopotamushehe. i got X & touchscreen working13:24
Stskeepsslonopotamus: woo13:24
* lcuk listens to
slonopotamusStskeeps, morning :)13:24
lcukThis was a triumph. I'm making a note here: HUGE SUCCESS.13:25
slonopotamusStskeeps, that was pretty easy13:25
Stskeepsslonopotamus: were you a developer too btw? or just ported13:25
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lcukIt's hard to overstate my satisfaction.13:25
Jucatolcuk: I almost thought it was a link to "We are the champions"13:25
slonopotamusStskeeps, uh?13:25
Stskeepsslonopotamus: as in, do you code C ;)13:26
slonopotamusStskeeps, nope13:26
lcukno jucato, just got another piece of the puzzle in palce13:26
Stskeepsslonopotamus: k13:26
Jucatoah :)13:26
* lcuk looks at his points of data13:26
slonopotamusStskeeps, python, java, js, a little bit of perl/bash, but not C13:26
* lcuk does a guitar solo13:26
dexterk penguinbait  tool does not work for me, always stop at partion...13:28
* slonopotamus can't compile anything in cpp on tablet. it takes tons of ram, slows down and gets rebooted by wd 13:28
lcukslonopotamus, what you trying to build in c++ - i managed it for a while before the slowness got to me and i went back to c13:28
qwerty12slonopotamus, dunno if these cflags work for g++:
slonopotamuslcuk, i wanted to build slim - tiny login manager13:29
RzRAny one at fosdem now ? I selected some conferences :
lcukslonopotamus, put the cpu into performance mode, compilation of anything is about 5x faster for some reason13:29
Jucatopenguinbait.. sounds familiar...13:29
slonopotamuslcuk, i'm in it13:30
lcukarghhhhhhh i wanted to be at fosdem :'( but i hadnt finished my code and ive got a family party tonight13:30
StskeepsRzR: you at fosdem?13:30
slonopotamuslcuk, heck, i can compile gcc, gtk, whatever else and can't build small login manager13:30
RzRStskeeps: unfortunatly not, but i have friends there13:30
* lcuk puts code monkey on13:31
slonopotamuslcuk, hmm... interesting options. will try them, thanks13:31
lcukwhich options?13:31
qwerty12slonopotamus, s/lcuk/qwerty12/ ;)13:32
infobotslonopotamus meant: qwerty12, hmm... interesting options. will try them, thanks13:32
lcuk"code monkey get up, get coffee"13:32
slonopotamusqwerty12, with defaults it behaves very badly when compiler grows up to ~90mb13:33
lcukwho thinks i should put up a small youtube vid?13:33
qwerty12slonopotamus, eurgh. A reason why I'll never turn to on device compiling :)13:34
lcukcompile lots of little things and slot them together dynamically :)13:35
slonopotamusqwerty12, hehe. you have other problems in sb/qemu13:35
qwerty12True :). I guess that's what sbrsh is there for :)13:35
slonopotamussbrsh - ?13:36
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qwerty12Sbox connects to your real arm device and uses the processor of that instead of qemu13:36
slonopotamuswhy this is better than on-device compiling?13:37
* lcuk wants a very dynamic webservice offering compilation (and a wiki database for maintaining versions)13:37
Stskeepscos of the cross-compiler :P13:37
Stskeepsit's kinda like inverse DISTCC13:37
qwerty12You can also set resource limits :)13:38
slonopotamusStskeeps, uh? i don't understand. who compiles in this setup?13:38
Stskeepsslonopotamus: scratchbox compiles, tablet emulates13:38
slonopotamusStskeeps, uh? emulates what?13:38
Stskeepsslonopotamus: if the cross-compilation process needs to run a program that was built for armel13:39
Stskeeps(happens quite often)13:39
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slonopotamusStskeeps, hmm... will you build perl without any modifications to it in such way?13:40
Stskeepsslonopotamus: er, rephrase q13:41
slonopotamuscan you build perl in sb?13:42
Stskeepsnever tried13:43
slonopotamusi don't trust crosscompiler and try to avoid using it as much as possible13:43
Stskeepsbtw, <- battery information13:44
Stskeepsi think13:44
slonopotamusStskeeps, try :) if you can't (even with sbrsh), then it's  a broken emulator :)13:44
* slonopotamus got very weird touchscreen behaviour until put /etc/pointercal calibration data13:45
Stskeepslook at the nokia-n8x0-pointercal stuff13:46
slonopotamusStskeeps, hehe. i've already wrapped it ito ebuild :) all your bases are belong to us13:46
infobotslonopotamus meant: Stskeeps, hehe. i've already wrapped it into ebuild :) all your bases are belong to us13:46
slonopotamusgotta go, see ya13:47
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qwerty12BTW, do an "svn checkout -r 151" to see really old dsme from 2006 era before it was cleaned up for opensourcing :)13:48
kaie810Hi. How can I find the mac addr of the wifi access point I am connected to? Or the equivalent to iwconfig13:48
Stskeepsqwerty12: yeah, i know13:49
qwerty12Stskeeps, I wasn't specifically referring to you ;)13:49
gladiackaie810: iwconfig should be installed13:49
kaie810Dont have iwconfig in roots path13:50
qwerty12kaie810, get root access, have extras enabled and apt-get install wireless-tools13:50
Stskeepsapt-get install wireless-tools13:50
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kaie810Well. E: Couldn't find package wireless-tools13:54
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qwerty12Extras enabled? But anyway, add the repo here (and disable when done):
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Stskeepshmm, does android use HAL?13:58
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wazd <- Hehehe, I can wave you from there in about 5 minutes :)14:06
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HALim sorry Stskeeps, i'm afraid i can't do that14:14
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lcukwazd, that webcam, on the road on the left there looks like multiple layers of cars parked, is it parking or a traffic jam14:15
lcukahhh tis ok14:16
lcukit was traffic lights14:16
wazdlcuk: It's one of the weirdest places in moscow for the drivers pov :)14:19
lcukwazd, all places in moscow would be weird for me :D you lunatics drive on the wrong side of the road!!!14:21
* lcuk giggles like a schoolgirl14:25
Stskeepslcuk has gotten the lsd-laced bacon14:25
lcuk:D i aint had any bacon yet, im just growing in confidence about the abilities in the new liqbase :)14:26
* lcuk still has lots of work, but the principle works14:26
lcuki really hope i dont have to resort to lowering the screen resolution again, it doesnt like 640*48014:27
lcukat least not on this aspect ratio screen14:27
lcukit works for other things14:27
wazdlcuk: :)14:27
* lcuk ponders: do i need a zoomout transition as well as a zoomin14:28
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* lcuk just cant stop clicking14:29
lcuki really must fix the edge case for the background14:31
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lcukwhats the command line to configure/run the vnc server from the command line (ubuntu14:40
lcukive got an ssh session but i want to login with vnc14:40
Stskeepsvncserver? :P14:41
lcuklol thanks14:42
lcuki knew it had remote access on it (i use it to vnc into my windows desktop)14:42
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lcukwhen i loginto vnc it shows me a raw new x11 session and not the current desktop that luke is faffing with14:45
Stskeepsah, that's X11vnc you want then14:47
lcukahhh thanks14:48
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: does advanced power monitor poll or?14:52
qwerty12_N800it polls14:52
Stskeepsand not just listening for dbus signals?14:53
qwerty12_N800I thought you were talking about apmd. apmd polls, not sure about apm14:54
Stskeepsapmd, yeah14:55
Stskeepsi can poll quite a lot in BME now :P14:55
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qwerty12_N800apmd must poll because with nokia's original applet & apmd running, the battery applet goes crazy.14:56
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, yes, the h-a-m one.15:29
sandmanThis just in: There are many racists on YouTube. That is all.15:30
GeneralAntillessandman, YouTube is the most bizarrely retarded place I've been able to find on the internet.15:31
GeneralAntillesThe comments there are otherworldly.15:31
qwerty12_N800Come on, the world's collection of spastics meet at the comments section. You're surprised by racism?15:31
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GeneralAntillesIf nothing else it's damn impressive.15:32
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GeneralAntillesAs if somebody distilled all of the internet's idiocy and fed it into the comments.15:33
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wazdguys, is that fontsize enough for old people?)
Jucatoyay!! successful partitioning and dual booting of internal memory!15:40
GeneralAntilleswazd, no, probably not. :P15:44
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wazdscrew old people then :)15:45
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wazdit's giant already :(15:47
lcukwazd, you will *NEVER* get a one size fits all for any interface15:47
lcukthere is no such thing as the perfect UI.  what you can give in the best case is enough choice to let them find the best one.15:48
lcukand choice is not 100 tickboxes and options15:48
wazdthe perfect UI is one button with "make it cool" functionality :)15:48
lcukoh, ive got that here15:49
GeneralAntilleswazd, just make the options good enough that you can pick between a nice, simple and huge 2-day, and a complicated and tiny 10-day.15:49
wazdGeneralAntilles: there will be no difference in day/night blocks, if you choose 2 day or 200 day :)15:50
* lcuk hasnt fixed anything in place yet in liqbase15:51
lcuki will let the ui mould over time :)15:51
lcukright, im goin makin a short video15:53
lcuki cant do any more code today15:53
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GeneralAntilleslcuk, enter liqbase into the N97 widget contest. :P16:02
GeneralAntillesIt can be the liqos widget.16:02
GeneralAntillesAn OS within a widget within an OS. :P16:02
dexterkanybody can help me a little? which deb source contain the libstdc++-dev ?16:02
dexterkos 200816:03
qwerty12_N800~seen fiferboy16:03
infobotfiferboy <n=quassel@> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 32d 18h 18m 26s ago, saying: 'Thanks for the information.  I will give that a try'.16:04
qwerty12_N800damn :(16:04
thopiekarhello.. my project on is at reversion 64.. is it normal that commiting changes takes 10-15minutes?16:04
lcukGeneralAntilles, i already entered all the widgets from the n97 contest into liqbase ;)16:05
lcukbut it looks awful16:06
lcukvideo copying from camera16:07
lcukshould i upload it to before i put it on youtube?16:07
lcukits 42mb16:07
wazdAll we need is one one one vision...16:08
lcukshit, whats my youtube password?16:09
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wazdqwerty12_N800: Olmsted is on the Jabber now)16:09
qwerty12_N800wazd, ah, thanks, maybe later :)16:09
* wazd sings "Tie your mother down"16:11
wazdmy neighbours are pretty lucky with me not having proper speakers :)16:13
qwerty12_N800you should rectify that asap :p16:14
wazdmy acoustics is at the country cause I'm having the overhaul in my appartments :)16:15
wazdSo I'm having fun with perforator instead >:D16:15
wazdSo I think they will be actually pleased to listen to Queen, Leds and other stuff instead of noise :)16:17
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lcukgoooooooood how long does youtube take to upload16:19
lcuki think i had this last time16:19
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GeneralAntilleslcuk, as long as your crappy internet connection takes?16:20
lcukUploaded (processing, please wait)16:23
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lcukmer gets a nice advert in the middle of the video16:24
GeneralAntilleslcuk screaming "Meeeeeeeeeer!!" for 10 seconds?16:25
lcukbut theres a mer logo16:25
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: Meeeer could also be roughly translated to "Biiiiiitch!"16:27
lcukgahhh @ processing time16:28
lcukoooh, theres a video on youtube!16:29
aquatixgah @ non-functional wifi at FOSMDEM16:29
lcukshould i give a link?16:30
aquatixwouldnt work here anyway ;)16:30
aquatixssh already has about 20s lag16:30
lcukyou miss out then :P16:30
aquatixmeh :P16:30
Stskeepsaquatix: everyone is downloading penguin porn16:30
aquatixwell, post, i'll be able to see in the log16:31
lcukpenguinbait is cowering in the corner of fosdem16:31
lcuk#liqbase has the link :P16:31
aquatixStskeeps: ah, so there's what that inflatable penguin was for16:31
* aquatix does not want to know16:31
Stskeepsaquatix: furries and gnubies have things in common..16:31
aquatixcurrently in a reverse-engineering talk (gnash, flash video), RMTMP)16:32
Stskeepsworst debug log i ever had to deal with was a dump of irc server traffic on a furry server..16:32
qwerty12_N800Sounds like a sticky situation :/16:33
aquatixStskeeps: ick16:33
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, why did you ever agree to look?16:33
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i didn't realize until too late :P16:34
aquatix``The googles, they do nothing!'16:34
aquatixdamn lag16:34
dexterkcan I install the ubuntu jaunty software to maemo os 2008?16:36
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Stskeepsno, except with easy ubuntu qole's working on16:37
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dexterkqole's working?16:37
dexterkwhere can I see it16:37
Stskeepshe mentioned it on iTT16:37
dexterkand I really want a opera for os 200816:37
GeneralAntillesOpera sucks16:38
Stskeepsheh, HAL battery lies a bit16:38
Stskeepshal battery says 14400 mins till battery low, BME says 10173 min16:39
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wazdoh, I have a classmates meeting right now)16:44
wazdNot so cool as FOSDEM beer party but still beer party :)16:44
qwerty12_N800No penguins I hope :)16:45
wazdwell, only a couple of girls maybe : ))16:45
aquatixwazd: :)16:46
aquatixthere wheren't much girls at the fosdem beer event ;)16:46
wazdmy keyword is beer, not girls :)16:46
wazdI'm a good boyfriend :)16:47
aquatixsame here16:47
aquatixdamn great beer btw16:47
aquatixhead.. still.. buzzing... ;)16:47
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qwerty12_N800Now, to get your mind of beer, you should drink hildon water ;)16:49
infobotqwerty12_N800 meant: Now, to get your mind off beer, you should drink hildon water ;)16:49
wazdlcuk: nice video)16:50
lcukyes wazd :)16:52
lcuki am so pleased with the zooming effect :)16:52
thopiekarlcuk: n1 work!16:52
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Stskeepsdaperl: did you do C btw?16:55
lcukthopiekar, n1?16:55
Stskeepsnice one? :P16:55
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Stskeepslcuk: heh, who needs clutter when you have liqbase16:57
Stskeeps(seriously though)16:57
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FirebirdHey guys, would there be any recent update that would turn touchscreen and key sounds on and cause this: ?16:58
lcukFirebird, you missed the youtube vid16:58
lcukthat looks corrupted16:58
Firebirdit does it everywhere but the fanoush boot screen16:59
StskeepsFirebird: there's a new Xomap in the new one16:59
lcukturn it off take battery out - let it fully cool down for a couple of hours and check then16:59
Stskeepslcuk: seriously though - experiment: how quick can you enable xv overlay and scrape the current X screen and resize it?16:59
FirebirdI've done that several times :/16:59
lcukdamn bman16:59
lcukwhich system is this in16:59
lcukStskeeps, not that quickly, it needs a conversion from rgb to yuv17:00
Firebirdblah, guess its reflash time :/17:00
Stskeepslcuk: isn't there accelerated rgb in newest xomap?17:00
lcukthere might be, but the innards of liqbase current system work on yuv17:00
lcukit was the principle reason why i split it as a library17:01
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daperlStskeeps, did you mean, "do I do C"17:01
Firebirdwow nice17:01
lcukhopefully we can make an alternative rgb backend17:01
Stskeepsdaperl: .. i need someone to implement a hald-addon-bme, i have the specs but cannot code it myself for various reasons :)17:01
Stskeepslcuk: i would be entirely satisfied with that as a WM really :P17:02
Stskeepswould make the iphone people shit their pants17:02
lcuki didnt do it for iphone people, i did it for me17:03
Stskeepsi know17:03
lcukby the way :P rate the bloody video someone please :'(17:03
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daperlStskeeps, let me get some coffee and run some errands and I'll get back to you17:05
Stskeepslcuk: i would even use that on a big touchscreen too17:05
Stskeepsand include some gesture stuff17:05
lcuk:) it works really nicely on my x4117:05
lcuki wanna buy an asus eee desktop touch thingy but i cant afford one17:06
lcukbut it will run sweet on it17:06
* thopiekar has rated the clip with 5stars..17:06
lcuki need a sane linux distro underneath it to make it work though :)17:06
* Jaffa spots his buttons in the libliq demo :017:07
lcuk:) yeah jaffa17:07
JaffaIt's looking good17:07
lcuki wanted to test real things and your buttons are so clear and recognisable and nice17:07
* Jaffa blushes17:08
wazdI think that UI will be good for "Post-it stickers" app17:08
lcukwazd, that calendar baseline is going to be a sharable real calendar17:08
daperlI've been getting my a*ss kicked trying to move the Diablo kernel up a version or two, so, who knows, maybe I could use an easier chance of success17:08
Stskeepsdaperl: *nod*17:08
lcukwith real hand notes and crosses on the days just like your real celendar on the wall17:08
lcukwhen its shown zoomed out its just like when you are looking from across the room17:09
lcukit conveys information that you cannot get from <robot>TEXT INPUT ON CALENDAR DAYS</robot>17:09
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lcuki need it to share calendar with me and tracy and also for showing on my x41 pinboard next to me17:10
lcuk(big daddy)17:10
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: curious question, is reverse engineered information about tablet internals (in this case, BME information) a big no-no on
wazdlcuk: well, that kind of calendar will be a nice showcase toy I think. But not a serious PIM competitor :)17:11
Stskeepsnot BME blow-up-BME stuff, but BME-get-battery-information17:11
wazdlcuk: as for notes it's totally ideal17:11
JaffaStskeeps: I don't see a problem with it17:11
Stskeepsespecially since they offered us the bloody protocol in DSM, it is a bit -too- easy :P17:11
lcukwazd :) its perfect for me and tracy and thats all i want - its expandable enough to allow -cal entries as well as the real handwritten ones17:11
lcukits just a data view17:11
lcukshould be customizable and sharable by others17:12
lcukif they make a better layout widget that uses other things they can share em with friends17:12
wazdahhh, that's the source of your "shareable changable UI" fury :)17:13
lcuki want you to supply a really nice layout, but also for me to make one and for someone else to make one17:14
lcukbut regular users can just select from a range of available views17:15
wazdWell, I have different purposes with OMW)17:15
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lcuknot really, you are making a layout for showing weather data, most regular users cant change it but advanced ones can17:16
lcukthe only thing missing from omw is sharing those alternative layouts17:16
lcukwhich is what i was getting at :)17:16
wazdI want to make one good UI that people will not want to change)17:16
lcukbut they will17:16
lcukeveryone has different ideas and levels17:16
lcuki cant read half your stuff on that page on device17:17
lcuki dont want 2 halves of info17:17
wazdI really never heard about alternative layout for OMW by now17:17
lcuki just want to know the weather now17:17
lcukive seen threads about customizing bits and what to show and how big things are and stuff17:17
roopeIf you make it good enough, people won't think of wanting to change it.17:17
roopeOnly if the UI bugs them then they would want to change it.17:18
lcukroope, have you seen the video17:18
Jucatois there an and twitter app(let) for diablo? so far only seen mauku.but dunno if it does yet17:18
roopewazd: having said that, I'd really like to change the current layout draft. ;)17:18
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wazdroope: well, I've made some fontsize changes
wazdroope: it should be readable now17:19
qwerty12_N800Jucato, mauku does twitter17:19
roopeYes, the main text now is more readable.17:19
Jucatoqwerty12_N800, how about
wazdOMW is still open sourced so you can change whatever you want :)17:21
wazdBut we will not spend time on sharing and changing adaptation17:21
qwerty12_N800Nope. Don't think anything for exists for tablet - @ Jucato17:21
Jucatoqwerty12_N800, *sad face*17:22
wazdanyway, you can change the wallpaper :)
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JucatoI followed the instructions to boot from a flash card, using the internal card. is it normal that the cloned system is almost 2x bigger than the original?17:32
Stskeepsyes, it's compressed in flash17:32
qwerty12_N800Yes. jffs2 is a compressed fs, ext* is not17:33
Jucatohehe I should have made the partition 1.5GB then ;)17:33
Jucatonah, still 500MB to use up :)17:33
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* lcuk clicks and zooms on liqbase and smiles some more17:43
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lcukFirebird, did you not see the video17:45
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Firebirdnot to the end17:45
lcuk:P maybe you should17:46
suihkulokkiapparently openmoko packages are not much cleaner condition that mer packages17:48
* suihkulokki is watching stream from fosdem17:49
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Stskeepssuihkulokki: at least we have more saner packages these time :P17:52
Stskeepswe did try to improve some things :>17:52
suihkulokkiStskeeps: where are the mer package sources these days?17:53 or
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stv0W: GPG error: chinook Release17:59
stv0everytime i want to update my apt cache18:00
stv0i already searched for the key18:00
qwerty12_N800It's a warning, not an error.18:00
stv0W: GPG error: chinook Release: Die folgenden Signaturen konnten nicht überprüft werden, weil ihr öffentlicher Schlüssel nicht verfügbar ist: NO_PUBKEY AE384AC3584BD4D618:00
stv0E: dpkg was interrupted, you must manually run 'dpkg --configure -a' to correct the problem.18:00
qwerty12_N800that's an error.18:00
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stv0what can i do?18:02
qwerty12_N800dpkg --configure -a ?18:02
stv0i didn't find this pubkey in the net18:03
stv0doesnt't help, next time i want to update i have the same problem18:03
Stskeepsok, BME information @
qwerty12_N800Like I said, it's a warning. Leaving it there isn't gonna kill you.18:04
Stskeepsstv0: dpkg --configure -a gives what error?18:04
stv0no error18:05
stv0just on updating my cache18:05
Stskeepsran out of space? :P18:05
lcukX-Fade, emergency!18:05
Stskeeps(check df -h)18:05
lcukmy blog posting from slashdot to planet has merged the youtube link :'(18:05
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stv0are 3.2M enough?18:06
Stskeepsstv0: sounds a bit low..18:06
stv0any possibility to extend my root partition?18:08
stv0i just installed a bunch of apps there18:08
Stskeepsclone to SD :P18:08
stv0the complete root partition?18:09
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Stskeepsyeah, it's possible18:09
stv0is there a tutorial for this?18:09
infobotwell, clone is a clone card - i.e. a worthless, unreliable piece of junk.  Is all that extra headache really worth the few dollars you're about to save?18:09
Stskeepsor not..18:09
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infobotextra, extra, read all about it, boot-sd is
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RzRthere is a debian nas conf video stream now :
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stv0what about just create a new partition for /usr on my sd card?18:13
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Stskeepscant assume it will respect fstab at bootup18:14
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Stskeepsdaperl: when you're back, what i'm pondering is developing 'Implement hald-addon-bme open source based on dummy BME and Mer/Documentation/BME_Protocol' (see Mer/Sprints/0.8 on wiki)18:23
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* b-man updates his facebook profile and applys some patches to merinstaller18:32
* lcuk laughs at b-man18:32
* lcuk dreads to think what his facebook looks like18:32
b-manna, not too bad ;)18:33
b-man(in fact, it's pritty empty)18:33
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p13|2ndi was wondering if someone could help me with a hardware issue i'm having18:46
p13|2ndmy N810 won't charge18:46
p13|2ndi was using it and all of a sudden it said recharge battery (even though it was supposed to be charging) and immediately turned off18:47
p13|2ndthen it started endlessly rebooting18:47
p13|2ndnow it won't even do that anymore, i just get the nokia logo and it powers off18:47
p13|2ndsomething tells me, it's not charging at all18:47
p13|2ndany ideas ?18:48
p13|2ndi just got this secondhand and i guess i got ripped off18:48
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matanZDid you try another charger?18:49
p13|2nddon't have any handy18:49
p13|2ndit detects the charger though18:50
p13|2ndand it's not just a pin because if i don't plug in the charger to the mains and plug it in to the tablet, it does nothing at all18:50
p13|2ndwhen i plug the charger into the mains and the tablet, it tries to boot but doesn't get anywhere18:50
matanZThe charger might supply some current, but not enough to charge the battery.18:51
p13|2ndmy sis has one let's see18:52
qwerty12Is it a AC-3X?18:53
qwerty12From my experience, AC-3x's don't work with the n80018:53
p13|2ndah no AC-3B18:53
qwerty124x's & 5x's work fine18:53
qwerty12yep, same thing, just different connector from the UK model (AC-4X) I'd take it18:54
p13|2ndyeah i'm in belgium18:54
p13|2nddifferent charger, same issue18:54
daperlStskeeps, I'm studying it and making a list of questions in my head18:54
p13|2ndit just wants to boot as soon as i plug it in and then when the nokia logo (blue text, not the hands) appears it just shuts off18:55
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p13|2ndand i can't turn it on anymore18:55
p13|2ndwould a busted battery cause that ?18:56
qwerty12A quick question, is it a really dirty hack to make the characters in a game go at twice their speed? I've replaced "characterDesc[actor->character].speed" with "characterDesc[actor->character].speed * 2;" and can't help wondering if it's clean enough :/18:56
p13|2ndi must say the back cover isn't totally flush with the case but it's mere millimeters18:57
p13|2ndand when i take the cover off, the battery comes out pretty easily18:57
p13|2ndi used to own a 770 and taking out the battery wasn't hard but it never just fell out18:57
qwerty12I've had this problem lots of times (I've bought about 6 chargers in total), and for me it was a charger issue :/18:58
p13|2nddoes your battery just fall out as well when you take off the back cover ?18:58
qwerty12Nope, it stays in but this is on a N800 so I don't know if the N810 has a slighly looser mechanism (on the N800, it's tight for sure - I had to use a knife to get my battery out for the first few weeks)18:59
* b-man shudders about using a knife on his n80019:00
p13|2ndwell this is an N810 and all i can say is compared to the 77019:00
p13|2ndthis battery is WAY loose19:00
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* qwerty12 sends his c-dogs port to the autobuilder. I guess people will have to live with the speed hack :)19:02
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RST38hmoo all19:12
qwerty12hi RST38h19:12
p13|2ndright, i've been reading about this issue some more19:12
p13|2ndseems like it happens a lot19:12
p13|2ndand it's not a charger issue19:12
qwerty12I'm pretty sure that's for when your N8x0 doesn't come on at all19:13
p13|2ndit will come on briefly and then just power off19:13
p13|2ndaha, what battery should be in it ?19:15
p13|2ndmine has a BP-4L19:15
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dmsupermanHoly wow:
qwerty12BP-4L is the standard N810 battery19:16
p13|2ndah ok19:16
Firebirdanyone else experiencing this?
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qwerty12wtf, just get a waterproof phone19:19
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RST38hqwerty: I'm afraid to think about it, but it looks like the virtual reality glasses johnx always wanted, gone terribly wrong19:20
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puffandstuffA general question : Is there any xorg implementation able to use OpenGL ES to have HW acceleration please ?19:35
p13|2ndoh internet tablet, why hast thou forsaken meeh ?19:35
p13|2nddon't know19:36
p13|2ndcan't even get it to boot19:36
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RST38hAnyone can tell me whether the new Canola v11 is worth trying?19:39
lfelipeRST38h: it definately is19:39
lfelipebeautiful, fast, an amazing experience overall19:39
puffandstuffDoes maemo uses x11 ? with HW graphic acceleration ?19:40
lfelipeI can't even describe how much joy it gives me19:40
lfelipealso, I'm one of the developers, but that shouldn't change what I just said19:41
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FireFoxpuffandstuff: no, but you can use software acceleration19:42
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puffandstuffFireFox, Do you know about any X11 implementation wich support graphic HW acceleration using OpenGLES please ?19:43
MoRpHeUzRST38h: definitely =)19:44
FireFoxthere are no hw acceleration drivers available that are compatibile with the tablets unfortunately :( - and there is no implimentation for X11 hw acceleration.19:45
suihkulokkino opengl es based acceleration, but video acceleration exists19:45
puffandstuffFireFox, i meant in xegl implementation, x11 may run on top of glitz etc ..19:45
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FireFoxyou might need to ask lcuk about that; lcuk, you here? :)19:48
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p13|2ndguys, what charger is the n810 supposed to come with in europe ?19:56
qwerty12My N800, from the UK, came with a AC-4X19:56
p13|2ndI have one AC-3B and AC-3X here19:57
qwerty12AC-3 series are useless with the tablets. Get an 4* or a 5*19:57
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p13|2ndis the thing supposed to charge over USB ?19:59
qwerty12There's available but that uses the charger socket20:00
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p13|2ndso, you'd say that this is the charger ?20:02
p13|2ndall i can say is that i got the message to "charge the batter"y while it was supposed to be charging20:02
p13|2ndat least it showed it was charging20:02
p13|2ndthen it got into a boot loop20:02
qwerty12When I was using my AC-3X, it said it was charging and then it went off :)20:03
p13|2ndnow it just shows the nokia logo and then powers off20:03
p13|2ndsounds the same then doesn't it ?20:03
qwerty12Yep, it's what happened to me when I was using a AC-3x - the exact same.20:03
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VulcanisUSB doesn't provide enough to charge and power it, right?20:07
Vulcanisso wouldn't you need to shut it down20:07
p13|2ndit's kind of permanently shut down ;?20:08
p13|2ndi'm off to my mom's place, she said she had another nokia charger i could try20:08
p13|2ndlater guys and thanks for the help20:08
qwerty12Bye, good luck with the charger20:09
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qwerty12hi johnx_20:10
johnx_coming at you live from a netcafe :)20:10
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qwerty12Goddamn, finds new ways to fucking piss me off20:12
Stskeepslo johnx_20:12
johnx_I think I'm going to regret being out this late tomorrow O_o;20:12
johnx_...when I'm at work20:12
johnx_hey Stskeeps20:12
* Stskeeps wonders why libhildon won't build on debian-armel20:14
johnx_bringing mer to debian?20:14
Stskeepsjohnx_: bringing mer to armv4t20:15
johnx_that's what I thought20:15
Stskeepsnot a focus but just fun thing i was bored with20:15
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* johnx_ is somewhat curious about the kindle2...20:18
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FireFoxhello, Stskeeps20:19
Stskeeps'lo bman20:19
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johnx_mornin' b-man20:20
b-manhi, johnx :)20:20
RST38hhey, johnx20:23
b-manStskeeps; how did you get wierless up in mer?, because even though i have a re-built version of tablet-wierless from mer installed, network manager still cannot see the device. :/20:25
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* b-man is going crazy without wierless :P20:27
johnx_hey RST38h. how goes it with you on this fine staurday night?20:27
qwerty12can't blame you, no wireless is the reason I dont use mer :p20:27
RST38hjohnx: not very well, thank you20:28
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RST38hjohnx: you wanted vr glasses? Here: !20:28
johnx_RST38h: saw those and I also saw a nice one-eye piece on akihabaranews20:29
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dymaxionanyone know how to change the font size on gpesummary applet. it's way too large.  googling no luck... thanks20:30
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* RST38h kinda hoped to gross johnx out20:30
dymaxionalso wanna change the transparency colour / % too20:30
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RST38hAh, another time =)20:30
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johnx_heh. I was just trying to figure out exactly what I want in a VR display the other night20:31
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johnx_hmm...but actually VR is really a misnomer20:31
johnx_I want more of a basic HUD20:31
b-manqwerty12: :) - really sweet visual/sound effects20:31
RST38hjohnx: I am pretty sure all you want is an image unobtrusively projected at the corner of your glasses20:32
RST38hbecause that is what everyone wants at the end20:32
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johnx_RST38h: yup. even one eye would be fine. I've learned that all I really need is one working eye for 90% of what I do :)20:32
qwerty12_N800b-man, hehe, i remember playing the demo on my psp (if that was meant to be addressed to me :))20:33
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b-mani have that game :)20:33
RST38hjohnx: should become Borg then!20:33
RST38hinstall a Deadly Red Laser Beam (tm) instead of the second20:34
qwerty12_N800b-man, I could never bring myself to get the iso^H^H^H UMD :)20:34
johnx_only thing I really miss is depth perception sometimes :/20:34
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johnx_no fun trying to play catch or baseball. and ping pong is a pain unless I'm right behind the ball20:34
* b-man wonders how cool it would be to have a maemo/gnome theme based off of that20:35
RST38hjohnx: with the Laser you will be able to incinerate the ball in the air20:36
qwerty12_N800psst, andrewfblack :)20:36
johnx_RST38h: and a battery pack the size of a couple car batteries...20:37
RST38hjohnx: Well the one at akihabara link is far from unobtrusive but it is integrated with headphones to mask that shortcoming :)20:37
RST38hjohnx: naaah, 5W will do the ball nicely20:37
johnx_yeah. so positive point: only covers one eye. negative: covers both ears ...20:37
johnx_errr...I have doubts about20:38
RST38h(see wickedlasers wares)20:38
johnx_5W getting a ball in the air before it hits me20:38
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* RST38h has now got a fully working TI85 emulator that looks like the real ti8520:51
RST38h(thanks to wazd)20:51
qwerty12_N800woot! :) ETA for the public? :)20:51
johnx_hey, that's actually pretty awesome20:52
Proteousppffff, hp48 all the way20:52
ProteousTI was for n00bs20:52
johnx_you can keep your weird-ass reverse polish notation20:52
ProteousRPN == better20:52
Proteousmore like programing20:53
johnx_if by better you mean dumb, then yes20:53
johnx_more like programming in forth20:53
RST38hqwerty: As soon as I figure out why it crashes with floating point exception when SWAP button is pressed20:53
qwerty12_N800heh :/20:53
RST38hI am now lazily adding TI86 support, but do not expect it in the first release20:53
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gfather1hello guys20:57
gfather1is there localization projects for maemo yet ?20:58
qwerty12_N800For what language?20:59
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qwerty12_N800I think locales-extras has Arabic locales21:00
qwerty12_N800I know there's support for displaying Arabic characters for sure, lemme check locales21:01
RST38hthere is support for hebrew, someone specifically worked on it21:01
RST38hmy guess is that arabic will be somewhat similar21:01
gfather1that meen bidi support is available21:02
gfather1which is good news21:02
gfather1but rendering arabic charectures is diffrent from hebrew21:02
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gfather1but it shouldnt be that hard if bidi was supported21:02
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qwerty12_N800Can't find Arabic locales for OS2008 :/21:02
gfather1seems nobody worked on it yet21:03
gfather1well i can help in localizing to arabic21:03
gfather1menues , applications , stuff , keyboard21:04
qwerty12_N800there's but I don't think that installs locales for the menu :/21:04
* qwerty12_N800 wonders if an Arabic font will work with Urdu well, my parents are always on at me...21:05
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RST38hqwerty: I am sure there is a roman transcription for it, is there?21:06
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qwerty12_N800Not sure :/21:07
gfather1thats only arabic keyboard , and fonts , for web browsing21:07
gfather1well i did the first arabic keyboard for android ;) , but i didnt make a wiki age yet21:07
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gfather1with the help from a hebrew guy , have to give the credit , as it was the source from his keyboard21:08
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Lamohello, is anyone in here using the LCARS theme? I really like it however when using it i am unable to see any text from rtcomm messages.21:11
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gfather1well if there is an interest in doing arabic localiztion , i would be happy to do it21:11
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qwerty12_N800If you get the locales for OS2008 (they're scattered around - may be easier to do 'for a in /usr/share/locale/en_GB/LC_MESSAGES/*.mo; do msgunfmt $a -o $a.po; done'), you probably can just merge the old ones from locales-extras for those available and maybe translate other strings yourself.21:17
gfather1qwerty12_N800 where could i download the locals from ?21:17
gfather1i dont have N80021:18
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qwerty12_N800Hmm, has the en_GB ones for many apps like the desktop, control panel for the latest OS2008 version scattered around (with names like l10n)21:19
sp3000Lamo: the way I read bug 1716  is that the theme could be fixed to alter that text color specifically21:20
* sp3000 is a bit uncertain about the comments21:20
qwerty12_N800I think it's a bug in the app itself which expects white everywhere - at least app mgr was fixed to remove the same problem in app mgr21:22
gfather1qwerty12_N800 hmm , very very confusing to know wich file to wich21:22
RST38hAnother carder spam21:22
RST38hIs anyone buying into these?21:22
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Lamosp3000, you have a link to that bug with solution?21:23
qwerty12_N800gfather1, a few examples: (en_GB locale for the application manager), (file manager locale), (control panel)21:24
gfather1qwerty12_N800 thanks , this should help more21:25
gfather1and i could edit them easily with text editor , right ?21:26
sp3000Lamo: I do, since my irc client is friendly enough to linkify "bug 1716" :P21:26
Lamothank you21:27
gfather1qwerty12_N800 thanks , last question , how could i test them , is there emulater or someting ?21:27
qwerty12_N800gfather1, yep, they're just plain text files which must be turned into mo files with msgfmt when done. but dedicated editors such as poedit exist21:27
gfather1yes , i cheked them ,. po files :)21:27
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qwerty12_N800gfather1, hmm, there is N8x0 emulatin support in QEMU svn head version but it requires N8x0 to get some required files :/21:28
gfather1qwerty12_N800> not with sdk ?21:30
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gfather1qwerty12_N800 we have forgoten something , what about the menu layout ?21:30
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qwerty12_N800gfather1, hmm, yes actually - publically available strings probably could be tested with sdk but you'll have to install quite a few things as the sdk's gui environment is pretty much lacking21:31
gfather1qwerty12_N800 u know thats its a rtl language , and the menues shoudl be right to left21:32
qwerty12_N800No idea wrt the menu layout :/, but the menu program & desktop are open source21:32
gfather1seems i need to do allot of work here21:32
qwerty12_N800It would probably be easier if you had a real device :p21:33
gfather1thats true :(21:33
gfather1and i should talk to the dev team to , as if its gonan take allot of time from me , @ least it should be official localization21:34
gfather1right ?21:34
b-manqwerty12_N800;    :D21:34
gfather1i dont want to spend months of localiztions for nothing21:34
qwerty12_N800gfather1, the guy who did the OS2006 one was an nokia employee and i've never seen an Arabic locale two years later...21:35
qwerty12_N800b-man, waiting for MicroB :)21:35
gfather1qwerty12_N800 is there somoen from dev team here , i can talk to ?21:36
gfather1* someone21:36
b-manhehe :) - i managed to get ith inner-workings of that site from wget ;)21:36
b-manre: the :P21:36
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wazdnow I'm here)21:37
b-manwazd:  XD21:38
qwerty12_N800b-man, haha, nice :D21:38
qwerty12_N800wazd, hi :)21:38
qwerty12_N800gfather1, dunno, if there is, they're hidden :). maybe maemo-developers mailing list may help21:39
gfather1you think i should use mailing list to contact them21:40
gfather1will they be interested ?21:41
wazdb-man: I pressed "europe" and it hanged :(21:41
b-mantry this: http://www.wipeoutpure.com21:42
gfather1qwerty12_N800 thanks for ur help , i have to go now , but ill try to contact them in some way, ill come back later , if you had any extra info , ill be greatfull ,21:43
b-manthe one i showed you isn't complete)21:43
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wazdb-man: oh, have you done this?)21:45
b-manno :p, i found it ;)21:45
b-manhey, lcuk :)21:47
lcukhiya b-man21:47
wazdI was fricking only guy at the meeting :)21:48
wazdLike king of the Pride xD21:48
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qwerty12_N800so, how much girls were there? :D (or penguins :P)21:48
wazdabout 16 :)21:49
wazdNot all of thew were penguins actually :P21:49
qwerty12_N800haha, bet you enjoyed yourself being there :D21:49
wazdyeeeeaaah xD21:49
qwerty12_N800lol :D21:49
wazdIt's nice to see how little girls became mature women :)21:50
wazdIf I'll find my d-slr I'll post some of the photos :)21:51
wazdis there any footage from the fosdem?21:54
* lcuk glides in and out21:58
Corsacwazd: Debian devrooom has live stream22:01
Veggengood geeky/nerdy girls are worth waiting for, being that kind oneself :)22:03
Veggen<---found his girlfriend in the LUG :)22:03
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lbtlcuk: watcha doing gliding?22:06
lcuklbt, take a look
lbtI take it all the ice inspired you... :D22:07
lcukwhat ice?22:07
lbtyou looked out the window recently?22:08
Corsacbut you know, it's over for today now22:08
Corsaclcuk: it'll restart tomorrow by 10 (CET)22:08
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lcukthats a bit of a pain, im hopefully sleeping then lol22:08
lcuklbt, ahhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh the light goes on22:08
lcukim thinking wtf does in car entertainment have to do with liqbase22:09
RST38hwazd: Hey, I have got ti85 working22:09
lcukRST38h, did u see as well :D22:10
RST38hwazd: Wanna do an icon for it? (the usual svg)22:10
RST38hlcuk: What? =) I have been away, doing some artwork22:10
lcukjust up there is a video22:10
RST38hoh a video22:10
* RST38h does not normally watch internet videos22:11
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RST38hlcuk: cool! what is it for? =)22:13
lcukits the foundations for my playground :)22:14
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RST38hlcuk: make it an app already =)22:15
lcukliqbase is an app already :)22:15
lcukthe new framework will have liqbase in it as well22:15
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lcukwhy are you so concerned about me having a specific single "thing" anyway?  i have never had one specific thing that ive wanted to do on a computer, its a multifunction multipurpose device22:16
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RST38hlcuk: not saying it should do a single thing22:17
RST38hlcuk: saying it should do a limited set of things well22:17
lcuklike fullscreen kinetic autoscrolling bookreader, fast efficient note taking, the most stable camera app, the nicest playground for messing with stuff, easy to use menus and stuff22:18
RST38hMeanwhile in .FR:
lcukit does everything i want it to do at that point.22:18
RST38hlcuk: you really have to have a single concept to merge all these into an app22:19
lcukthey are all together and i use it everyday22:19
RST38hlcuk: for example, a spreadsheet merges several different uses into a single concept22:19
lcukconcept : usable touch friendly ui22:19
lcukwith whatever apps i want in it22:20
lcuki have mine22:20
RST38hui is usually supposed to do something22:20
RST38hLet us say, you have got an endless desktop with easily zoomable documents on it22:20
RST38hTHAT is a concept22:20
lcukive got it22:20
lcukevery single note i create endlessly goes on22:20
RST38hWell, if you work toward creating an app based on this concept alone, that would be wonderful22:21
RST38hyou would get your paint app + book reader + photo taker/viewer22:21
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RST38hBut remove everything that does not fit the endless-desktop-with-zoomable-docs22:21
lcukdownload it now22:22
RST38hYes, I did22:22
lcukthen i dont see your point?22:22
lcuk(note for others reading, thats the older liqbase using the original ui)22:23
RST38hWell, what I downloaded looked like a technology demo)very good one)22:23
lcukyeah, and its incomplete and full of personal compromises22:23
RST38hWasn't a complete app though22:23
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lcukso i have been working towards making it better22:23
RST38hbased on that video, I would say you are working towards experimenting with more concepts22:24
RST38hthat is nice of course, but there is still no complete app based on that endless-desktop thing22:24
lcukthat video is closer to what i wanted to do originally but couldnt because of technical issues22:24
lcukif i had font support (like i have in vb) i wouldv been scaling at the start22:25
lcukthe calendar principle has been wanted from the start, that was my original intent with the way i store sketches22:26
RST38hyou mean, in a matrix, by day?22:26
lcukbut i couldnt make it look good with pure white only fixed resolution fonts22:26
lcuki want a calendar that i can zoom to quickly and draw on like a real calendar22:27
lcukthat i can share with tracy22:27
lcukand view on my x4122:27
RST38hbtw, casio also uses a calendar view in its cameras22:28
lcuki dont want an icon of a calendar, and i dont want text written under each day - i want to be able to mark a day with a red X or something if i desire22:28
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lcukobviously typed cal entries are useful as well22:28
lcukbut thats not in my head, other people will be able to help with that part if they want it22:29
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lcukthe modules in current liqbase are very modular already, but they suffer from a massive codebase.  now that i have dynamic module support its easier for a person to get involved or make their own22:30
lcuk(or for me to just create as many as i want on a whim without setting up tonnes of dev env)22:30
wazdliqbase will become emacs :)22:32
lcukno it wont22:33
lcukthats what i stopped22:33
RST38hnot until he bolts lisp on top22:33
wazdit will boil coffee, wash the car :)22:33
RST38hbut I have heard lcuk is already working in this direction ;)22:33
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lcukRST38h, lisp is ugly, it will be basic :P22:33
wazdlcuk: I think it would be better to have separate apps for sketching, calendar and so on22:34
lcukwazd :) its all sketching22:35
lcukthe calendar is part of it22:35
RST38hwazd: By calendar he means the calendar-based top view22:35
lcukagreed the book reader isnt22:35
RST38hwad: it is actually useful to organize sketches by date22:35
RST38hlcuk: Actually, book (document) reader is well inside the concept22:35
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lcukRST38h, no, wazd is right, i also want to be able to mark on something for next month and see what tracy is doing etc22:35
RST38hlcuk: You load documents, read them, an dsketch on top of them22:36
RST38hlcuk: it would be an excellent app, if it were complete22:36
lcukbut havign a dynamic front end is best where the user can choose how their playground looks22:36
lcukso if they dont want the book reading or the calendar it doesnt have to be there22:36
lcukand if someone comes up with something else it can be added easily22:37
* RST38h wonders if he can manage to make emulator quit when ti85 bios tells cpu to shut down22:38
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* timelE61i wonders if people have tried the english package22:49
lfelipelcuk: where is the video ?22:51
timelE61iI got a rfe for liqbase22:52
timelE61iThe pen width needs to be customizable22:52
timelE61iOh, and there was something else too22:53
lcuktheres about a billion things, send me a patch and ill integrate it :P22:53
timelE61iOh yes, the reader needs some encoding support22:54
lcuki know about the pen thing22:54
timelE61iIt ruined my french licenses22:54
lcukno it doesnt timelE61i :) what the reader needs is a documented API so other people can add formats as required22:54
lcukTHAT is on the roadmap for the reader, i cant do everything :)22:54
timelE61iAs long as it includes those by default :)22:55
lfelipelcuk: hehe, cool22:55
lcukyes the pen width is the last thing i need before i can do the next thing22:55
timelE61imy young customer will be happy22:55
timelE61iShe said sketch was better ;-)22:56
lcukmy young customer is already happy22:56
lfelipegotta try it22:56
* timelE61i sighs22:56
lcukthe biggest drawing requests ive had are more connected single page, pen width and a bloody eraser22:56
lfelipethough I've already given up on trying to use electronic devices for note taking and etc.22:56
* timelE61i has bugs for maemo mine+drac+traffic too22:57
wazdin fact it's very intersting to see how two radicaly different apps can live together within one platform :)22:57
lcuklfelipe, i use it for fragments not whole paragraphs - its like a postit but quick enough to do many22:57
timelE61ioj, also..22:57
lfelipelcuk: yes, but do you eventually get around to doing anything with them later ?22:57
lfelipeI mean22:57
lfelipedon't they just get lost afterwards ?22:57
timelE61iI couldn't figure out what to do when it asked me for my name22:57
lcukno, i have the very first note i took with it22:57
wazdliqbase strives total customizability and multi-functionality. OMW strives consistency and to do one thing well :)22:57
lcuki can scroll back to the very start22:58
timelE61iAnd i .. Why are sketches and photos distinct?22:58
* lfelipe has never been able to use any planner/calendar/etc.22:58
lcuktimelE61i, :) they wont be for long22:58
lcukthe calendar widget preview in the video is how i want it - natural looking and me and the missus know what a red star in the corner of a day means22:59
lfelipethey all eventually become like blackholes22:59
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lfelipeeverything goes in, nothing comes out22:59
lcuknot at all, i can see the little men drawn on my calendar here22:59
lcuki would know if something is on a day just like when i look at my paper calendar on the wall i know if something is wrote on a day23:00
lcuki might not be able to read it until i move closer23:00
lcukbut i know its there at a glance23:00
lfelipelcuk: but that's my problem, I don't look23:00
lfelipeI mean, I jot down notes and stuff, but I never remember to go and look "hey, do I've anything to do today?"23:01
lfelipehey, anyone knows who runs planet.maemo ?23:01
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timelE61ium, a fleet of emergency vehicles just went by23:01
qwerty12_N800lfelipe, think it's X-Fade23:02
timelE61iLfelipE: bugs.maemo.org23:02
lfelipeI posted about canola's new release yesterday, but it hasn't appeared so far23:02
lcuktimelE61i, hows fosdem goin btw23:02
lfelipedunno if it's just a natural lag or something23:02
lfelipebleh, already know why23:03
lfelipewrong category23:03
mavhcfirst rule of bug hunting: blame yourself23:04
lcuktimelE61i, are you at the meal yet?23:04
lfelipemavhc: or blame someone else and then secretly check to see if it's not you :P23:04
timelE61iI'm heading downtown now23:05
lcukmavhc, thats the last rule once all others have been exhausted23:05
timelE61iNot sure if i'll go to maemo or mozilla23:05
lcukdid anything exciting happen in daytime then?23:05
mavhcI did end up finding a bug in the OS's printed documentation once23:05
timelE61inot much... I spoke to a few people and mostly listened to the moz stuff23:05
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timelE61iI think i need to kick someone23:06
timelE61iPossibly me23:06
lcukheh why now23:07
timelE61iI think in my localization if you aren't connected and tap the connectivity icon it shows "(none)"23:08
timelE61iit should probably say (no connection) - ?23:09
lcuklol i think you should have a straw poll at the dinner table tonight :D23:10
lcukthe label should say (stop working and have fun at the fosdem/maemo dinner) :P23:10
* qwerty12_N800 likes "not connected", dunno if correct23:10
* lcuk has never clicked the connectivity icon23:10
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timelE61iI don't like "Not connected" because it could be the name of a wifi network23:13
* timelE61i should name one that @work23:14
timelE61iand yes, i know ()s are fair game too, but...23:14
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b-manhehe, i'm building a webpage on my ftp site :)
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* daperl wondering if pidgin is working23:43
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RST38hBroadband Cut Entirely From Stimulus Bill23:47
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qwerty12_N800daperl, get a real irc client :)23:47
mavhcthe internet is full of communists, p2per and open sourcers, never made anyone any money23:48
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RST38hyou mean, you can't drill it for oil?23:48
Stskeepsmavhc: i'm a combination of those and i make money;)23:49
mavhcpfft, statistical anomoly23:49
daperlqwerty12_N800, i just switched back to my n800, but maybe i'll try pidgin again23:50
mavhcI do find it hilarious seeing the politicians with big printed cards, don't they have a projector and a laptop?23:50
RST38hSts: You are Dutch. Thus, not being classified as "anyone"23:50
Stskeepsi am not dutch!23:50
RST38hSts: Remember, for those guys the world ends at the US maritime borders.23:51
Stskeepsi'm danish. :P23:51
Stskeepswe don't allow nearly as much weed23:51
daperlyou're food23:51
RST38hSts: See? Americans can't even tell your nationality correctly!23:51
qwerty12_N800daperl, heh, could never get to grips with pidgin but I have a thing for xchat in windows, tablet & in ubuntu :)23:52
* RST38h smirks23:52
daperlqwerty12_N800, i'm happy w/ konversation on my kubuntu machine, thanks for the ubuntu/x-chat tip23:53
RST38hok, sleep time23:54
qwerty12_N800daperl, hehe, I hate kde too but i won't go into it :D23:54
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daperlwhich kde? :) i use a 3 and a 423:56
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lcukStskeeps, pronouncing "mer" is fucking horrid23:56
lcuk"meer" "mere" "moar"23:56
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qwerty12_N800daperl, Kde 4 mainly :). Kde 3 worked & was a lot more stable for me but it just seems "too much" for me tbh :)23:57
crashanddieWhat's the meaning of Mer btw? Maemo Extreme Revolution?23:57

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