IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2009-02-04

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zeenixtimelE61i: is it the l33t day?00:21
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timelessCall speed00:24
timelessCall type: [Normal,High speed]00:24
timelessModem type: [Analog, ISDN v.110, ISDN v.120]00:25
timelessMaximum data speed: [9600 bps, 14400 bps]00:25
timelessis "Call speed" really a good descriptor for those 3 choice fields? :(00:26
* timeless tentatively changes it to 'Connection'00:26
timelessor 'Connect'?00:26
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cgardnerI'm trying to check for updates for the first time after updating the firmware, and it seem to stop half way through the check.  Is this normal?00:27
timelesscgardner: how many repos do you have?00:28
timelesserr 'catalogs'00:28
cgardnertimeless: 400:29
timelessGlobal Positioning System fits!00:29
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cgardnertimeless: I disabled all of them, and enabled them one at a time and it seems to work now. I don't know what the problem was.00:32
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cgardnerAre there any generally awesome must have apps?00:38
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infobotfrom memory, musthave is Maemo Mapper, FBReader, Vagalume, Canola, Numpty Physics, X-Chat, Evince, ScummVM, MyTube, MPlayer, Advanced Backlight, USBControl, Large Statusbar Clock, Transmission and much more. Also see
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wazdinfobot, where's OMWeather, bastard?)00:43
wazd~burn himslelf00:44
* infobot pours gasoline all over himslelf, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze00:44
wazdok, Yahoo weather is in list :) Anybody happy?)00:46
Jaffawazd: what about :)00:47
* FireFox compiles a fuew more packages for the ubuntu repo to make it complete - adding kernel-diablo, xorg, and cx3110x-module packages00:49
wazdJaffa: I'll try00:49
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wazdI really wonder why some providers don't want to be represented to people, without banner or with it, they just don't want00:52
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wazdIs that some kind of secret market strategy "Let's just disappear"00:52
wazd <- cool00:54
JaffaBBC gooood00:55
Jaffa in particular is a treasure trove00:55
wazdNow I should write a letter to their support and ask them if they don't mind to be used by friendly non-commercial open-source informant00:55
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wazdI really don't see any problem in using this, but maybe they are paranoid or something00:56
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wazdSo hard to do everything legal)00:57
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wazdoh my01:00
wazdI'm fucking genius01:00
wazdWhat if OMWeather can be like "emulator" and weather feeds are like ROM's01:01
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GeneralAntilleswazd, does NOAA provide a free feed?01:01
wazdGeneralAntilles: well, in fact all sites provide free feed in some way01:02
wazdGeneralAntilles: but they all have some strange article in LA01:02
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bensonYou mean we should tell everyone they have to own one to extract the feed, but it's really an open secret that you can download them and play all the old games^H^H^H^H^H weather for free?01:02
GeneralAntillesThe whole "karma will never work" view is way too defeatist for my tastes.01:03
wazdGeneralAntilles: like "you can't show, bla-bla-bla this information without our permision"01:03
GeneralAntillesWe should try to add IRC to the karma calculation before the next election.01:03
wazdbenson: well, we just leave all responsibility to "feed-authors" and include in OMWeather itself pnly approved feeds01:04
wazdbenson: and you will be able to add other feeds easily :)01:05
JaffaGeneralAntilles: there are a few karma bugs which should be prioritised in the next sprint; that could be one too. Are you chairing tomorrow's meeting?01:05
bensonAh, like Maemo Mapper. "Click the button to download repositories that may or may not be legal for you to use!"01:06
wazdbenson: yeah, that sort of stuff :)01:06
GeneralAntillesJaffa, probably.01:07
wazdbenson: but I'd prefer to have them all legaly ofcourse :)01:07
GeneralAntillesUnless somebody else really has a hankerin' to get in on that action. ;)01:07
JaffaGeneralAntilles: I'll be eating my lunch, trying to actually have a lunchbreak and participate.01:08
*** GeneralAntilles changes topic to "Sprint Review February 4th @ 14:00 UTC in #maemo-meeting | | Maemo Community Council | |"01:08
JaffaAnnoyingly, there's no wireless at work now. Although, I could take my laptop to the breakout area and use my phone. Pricey & laggy, tho'01:09
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wazdSurprisingly, Foreca has absolutely free RSS/XML feed :)01:10
* Jaffa beds, disheartedly01:10
wazdJaffa: gnite01:10
GeneralAntillesOf course the text file with all the #maemo/#maemo-meeting topics disappears the day I actually need it. . . .01:10
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Jucatoemergency question: is there an undelete in the file manager (OS2008 Diablo)? :(01:14
timelessnot really01:14
Jucatoouch :(01:14
timelessin most cases the data is probably still around01:14
timelessbut reaching it is terribly painful01:14
Jucatooh it was on the external memory card though01:15
timelessin that case, you have choices01:15
timelessyou can find a linux tool, or a windows tool and usb mount it01:15
bensonFAT's easy to undelete from; take it to a dos machine.01:16
timelessi personally wouldn't try to use Maemo to do the recovery01:16
timeless,me would use a windows or dos tool01:16
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* Jucato tries and crosses fingers01:16
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Jucatothough a follow-up question: why isn't there some Trash management? or will there be or is there a way to get that?01:17
* benson hates it when delete doesn't delete.01:17
bensonBut it's a good question, most DEs do that.01:18
bensonI don't know why Maemo doesn't; if it really irks you, go vote on/file a bug. :P01:18
Jucatosome also have the option to bypass the Trash for people who hate it when delete doesn't delete ;)01:19
Jucatowell to be honest, it only hit me now :P01:19
bensonSomething tells me Maemo wouldn't, but yes. The good ones do.01:19
bensonGeneralAntilles: solca:01:20
bensonGeneralAntilles: solca: @Maemo councils: Ask Nokia to put 1 day all Linux engineers in a coding sprint to fix support for 770/N8x0 in recent kernels, that would be a good service to the community IMO.01:20
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timelessimagine that nokia had 100 |linux engineers"01:21
timelessimagine 98 of them have nothing to do w/ kernel01:21
timelesshow do you want to arrange these engineers in your 1 day?01:21
timelessnote: these numbers are totally random01:21
timelessbut probably not disproportionate01:22
bensonAlso, coordination between 100 people on a 1-day project.01:22
timelessbenson: that too01:22
bensonBTW, that was a quote from solca; afraid that was unclear...01:23
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bensonAccidentally pasted it with a newline, and so couldn't edit it.01:23
GeneralAntillesI'm in favor of having 1 Nokia engineer a day force benson to code up the support in 100 days. :P01:24
timelessanyone here ever used image viewer to do anything other than "view" images?01:25
bensonUmmm... I think it does resizing/cropping? I think I've done that once.01:25
timelessdid it work?01:25
bensonBut I don't use it much for viewing them, either. Quiver for that.01:26
bensonYes, I think so.01:26
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timelessif you select crop01:26
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timelessthere's a toolbar at the bottom01:26
* benson opens image viewer01:26
timelesswould you expect it to say "Crop:" [....|v] or "Crop" [....|v]01:26
bensonI'd expect: "Ratio:"01:27
bensonBut "Crop:" would be the better of those two.01:28
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bensonRule of thumb: when in doubt, change it.01:28
* timeless nods01:28
bensonNokia didn't get it right.01:28
timelessi'll try ratio:01:28
timelessw/ that, i can drop 'ratio' from Default and |Screen01:28
timelessok, next01:29
timelesswhat does 'Default ratio' actually mean?01:29
bensonThe same ratio as the image has.01:30
benson"keep ratio"?01:30
* timeless doesn't think so01:30
timelessplay w/ them a bit01:30
timelessi think it actually means '(none)'01:30
bensonNo, unlocked.01:31
timelessso, i should try 'Keep ratio:'01:31
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timelessor 'Fix ratio:' ?01:31
* timeless isn't sure 'Fix' would be understood01:31
benson"Force ratio:"?01:32
GeneralAntillesbenson, fix your email client. :P Plain text is better.01:32
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* timeless ponders01:33
timelessForce ratio: (none)01:33
timelessdoesn't seem to work01:33
bensonGeneralAntilles: Is it wrecking things, or did I just apply formatting?01:33
timelessFixed radio: ?01:33
GeneralAntillesbenson, the quoting is really weird.01:33
* benson looks to see what's up with gmail and using plaintext for specific messages...01:34
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bensonGeneralAntilles: Yeah, I can use plaintext for list email. Would you mind forwarding me one of my emails that came through? I'm curious how exactly they're getting mangled.01:41
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GeneralAntillesbenson, let me grab a screenshoot01:41
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* timeless got a notification icon in the top left corner for a moment01:44
Mekgnuton: are you aware that the qt in extras-devel is built without -fvisibility=hidden support? (while it would work just fine with that support)01:45
Mekgnuton: (I fixed it for me locally by adding an explicit -reduce-exports parameters to qt's configure call)01:46
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gnutonMek: hei :D01:47
Mekhi :)01:47
gnutonMek: I know that it's built without -fvisibility=hidden01:47
Mekis that intentional?01:48
gnutonbut I've to check what  -reduce-exports does01:49
gnutonactually does01:49
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gnutonMek: why do you need it?01:49
Mekgnuton: otherwise I have to manually disable -fvisibility=hidden support in everything using qt as well, because when code is compiled against a qt without support for it QT_EXPORT (and similar macros) are defined as no-ops...01:51
Mek(and thus I end up with libraries with only hidden symbols)01:51
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crashanddiethat karma issue sure raises some voices ;-02:04
GeneralAntillesHi, angry man. :P02:05
crashanddieWho says I'm angry?02:06
GeneralAntillescrashanddie: "rawr karma"02:06
crashanddieyeah, I'm a bit touchy on the subject02:07
GeneralAntillesYour response to Jaffa certainly didn't SOUND calm to me. ;)02:07
crashanddiehey I voted for the guy, I'd better keep him in line with my opinions :P02:07
crashanddieplus, unless you're blind and have a screen reader, my emails don't sound anything to anyone02:08
GeneralAntillesJust, a hint, though, the angry approach tends to bias people against your position, not attract them to it. :)02:09
* lcuk could hear the beasty boys "you gotta fight"02:09
crashanddieI'm not angry02:09
lcuk"for your right"02:09
lcuk"to parrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrty"02:09
crashanddiejust because I don't take (have?) the time to be very diplomatic (and I can be) doesn't mean I'm angry02:10
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles: but yes, point taken, I'll try to be more... conservative02:10
* lcuk can see the veins popping :P02:10
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crashanddieJaffa: nothing personal though, right?02:10
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GeneralAntillesHe's asleep. :P02:11
crashanddieI might sound like an ass, but buy me a beer and I'm cute and cuddling like a pet turtoise02:11
GeneralAntillesYou'll have to idle for the next 8 hours or so to make peace. ;)02:11
gnutonMek: is it more faster? What's the size of Gui lib?02:11
crashanddiebleh, just got home from the office02:11
crashanddiegotta finish a document, sure hope it won't take me 8 hours02:11
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles: I find it surprising though that you did not voice your opinion more than through sarcasm02:13
Mekgnuton: I have no idea if it makes a difference for anything (and my is 10567940 bytes)02:13
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GeneralAntillescrashanddie, good, I'm making some progress, then, I guess. ;)02:14
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: by not being on *every* thread?02:14
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, that's clearly a false accusation.02:14
GeneralAntillesI've never contributed to any Android thread. :P02:15
crashanddieand who am I to blame you02:15
gnutonMek: Cool the mine is 12.3 Mb02:15
crashanddieJaffa in germany or something like that, right?02:15
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GeneralAntillesJaffa's at home in the UK as far as I'm aware02:16
Mekbtw, just to add to the karma discussion, I think submitting pacakges to extras-devel should give at least some karma (even if the packages are 'only' libraries normal users won't care about)02:16
GeneralAntillesqgil is/was in Germany, though.02:16
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crashanddiegoogle tells me he's either in the west midlands or in manchester02:18
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crashanddienot close enough to ask for forgiveness with stella02:18
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GeneralAntillesHow's work these days, crashanddie?02:22
genewitchok i got mer-VM installed02:22
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles: seeing I got home around midnight should give you a hint :)02:23
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: busy, very02:23
genewitchNow i just have to hunt for source packages02:23
crashanddieGeneralAntilles: not travelling too much at the moment, just having my job shifting a bit02:24
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genewitchanyone here use the VMware Mer release?02:32
genewitchi just have a quick question about compilation re: architecture02:33
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genewitchStskeeps: you alive?02:52
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crashanddie85.9% of the full Stargate SG1 series done \o/02:58
GeneralAntillesI never could get into SG103:00
GeneralAntillesMost of the way through Doctor Who series 2 at the moment.03:00
crashanddieAh, still with Rose then :)03:00
crashanddieTo be honest, I'm more of an Atlantis fan than an SG103:01
genewitch./configure --host=arm03:01
GeneralAntillesI stopped having access to SciFi once they really started pushing Atlantis.03:01
genewitchanyone know what else i have to do other than that?03:01
crashanddiebut considering I'm running through SGA as an American goes through a pile of burgers, I need some sustanance03:02
crashanddiewhatever the spelling of that word is03:02
genewitchAmericans can spell it.03:03
GeneralAntillesI had Krystal burger on the trip back up from home the other day03:03
* benson becomes hungry.03:04
* benson becomes starving.03:04
* GeneralAntilles hits lcuk with a cast-iron skillet.03:04
* benson examines fridge.03:05
bensonNo bacon :(03:05
* benson commences frying sausage instead.03:06
crashanddiegenewitch: oh well, one word I spelled wrong, knowingly... let's not get into the spelling conversation :) Aluminium vs aluminum, thru vs through, herbs pronounced "erbs"...03:06
GeneralAntilleslol . . . "her-b"03:06
sistohave you guys listened to Quim Gil on FLOSS Weekly?03:08
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sistoI'm listening to the interview right now03:08
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GeneralAntillessisto, there's also a video somewhere03:08
sistoI wonder if he talks about the new tablets :|03:09
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GeneralAntillessisto, there's not been an announcement yet. :)03:09
crashanddieI'm out03:09
crashanddietake care everyone03:09
sistocrashanddie: bye03:10
sistoGeneralAntilles: come one03:10
GeneralAntillesLater, crashanddie.03:10
GeneralAntillessisto, what do you mean?03:10
sistoI mean... announce it already Nokia03:10
GeneralAntillessisto, Quim's not going to make an announcement before it's actually announced.03:11
GeneralAntillesMaybe the Mobile World Congress03:11
* benson is optimistic about MWC03:12
sistomobile world congress? when is it?03:13
sistooh i checked03:13
sistoit's soon03:13
benson14th I think03:13
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* sisto joins the optimism about MWC03:14
bensonGeneralAntilles: I gave in and bought an N810.03:14
bensonYou still holding out?03:14
GeneralAntillesbenson, I think I came to my senses03:15
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GAN800Something's eating my desktop. . . .03:15
sistoyou'll have to wait a while between the announcement and actually being able to have one03:15
Jucatowhat will happen to the n810 when Maemo 5 comes out? I'm guessing it can't be backported to the device completely (like the Clutter sutff)?03:16
sistoprobably a coupe of months?03:16
bensonJucato: Well, they'll probably fade out of retail.03:16
GeneralAntillessisto, beta SDK is out in ~May03:17
Jucatobenson: besides that. I already have one :)03:17
* Jucato is more concerned about updates/support/etc :)03:17
bensonBut even without clutter, Maemo 5 should be quite an improvement.03:17
bensonNo Maemo5/N8x0 from Nokia.03:18
sistoI believe OS2008 was backported to 770 and 800 right?03:18
bensonBut they want to see successful community backport.03:18
GeneralAntillessisto, the N810 and the N800 are the same hardware03:18
GeneralAntillesNokia isn't going the Hacker Edition route for Maemo 5 on OMAP2 this time03:19
GeneralAntillesInstead they're going to support a community backport.03:19
sistowhat about continued updates for OS2008?03:19
infobotsomebody said mer was
Jucatooh well.. I'll just need to convince (read: hypnotize) myself that this n810 is the only possible/feasible choice I have atm :/03:19
GeneralAntillessisto, we've got one or two more.03:19
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* GeneralAntilles sighs.03:20
GeneralAntillesI need a new machine03:20
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genewitchi hate compile errors03:22
genewitchthat are the developer's fault.03:22
JucatoGeneralAntilles: then after that/those update(s), any further updates would be community-based/3rd party? or will there be no updates at all after that?03:23
genewitchthat i have to go in and fix the code before the quote "STABLE RELEASE" unquote will compile03:23
infobotrumour has it, mer is
* Jucato has been seeing this Mer without knowing what it is... thanks for the link03:23
bensonMer is Maemo 5 based, so no further Maemo 4 updates after Nokia stops.03:24
Jucato"Supporting tablet hardware no longer receiving updated OS software by Nokia." <-- ok that's what I needed to hear :)03:24
Jucatoer.. ouch.. ok :(03:24
genewitchwould maemo5 be ~= to OS2008?03:24
genewitcher 200903:24
* Jucato hopes that Maemo 5 will somehow be able to run on the n810... modified of course..03:24
bensonJucato: That's called Mer03:26
bensonOS2008 is Maemo 403:26
bensonFremantle, Maemo 503:26
genewitchthere's already people in here working on freemantle -> n8x0, though, right?03:27
Jucatobenson: but you said Mer is Maemo 5 based?03:27
bensonMer, also Maemo 5, but built on Ubuntu with as little closed stuff as possible/03:27
Jucatoer ok.03:27
JucatoMer = Maemo 5 that can run on N810?03:27
GeneralAntillesgenewitch, that's called Mer.03:27
genewitchi am using mer right now as we speak03:27
bensonSo it can be community distributed on to run on N800 and N8x003:27
bensonbut also on completely unrelated devices.03:27
Jucato(or rather maemo 5 based running on n810)03:27
genewitchi'm seeing what i can port to ARM03:27
Jucatohm. ok.. I guess I can breath a sigh of relief now  :)03:28
genewitchis the --build=armv61-unknown-linux-gnu --host=arm the right config flags?03:30
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sistoI didn't listen much that I didn't already know on Gil's interview... I want my time back :P03:36
bensonsisto: You know he was in a sauna.03:36
sistoI guess the steam got into his head03:37
bensonBut yeah, not really any new info.03:37
bensonThe sauna, BTW, was off.03:38
* Jucato is still listening to qgil's interview...03:45
sistowhat if someone backport android's sdk to maemo and we can have android apps? it's just an idea I am thinking about right now03:47
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ppireshi all. just followed the instructions in the Maemo Diable Reference Manual for maemo 4.1 for recompiling a kernel and flashing the device.03:56
ppiresnow the device boots, and i can click in some stuff for some seconds.. but then it freezes and reboots03:57
ppiresanyone has any idea of what's going on, or how can i debug this?03:57
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ppireswhat's the default config for n810?04:04
ppiresnokia_2420_defconfig, right?04:04
genewitchi don't think there are any awake developers in here right now04:04
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bensonppires: I've heard that it's not actually the config used.04:07
bensonbut I don't know what is.04:07
sistodo you think the android sdk could be backported to meamo?04:08
benson? You mean actually run the SDK, not Android?04:09
ppiresbenson: damn.. the things boots and shows the ui and it's usable for 5 seconds or so04:09
bensonsisto: Yes, but you could shoot yourself in the head, instead. It'd be faster.04:10
bensonsisto: the Android SDK emulates an ARM. Emulation is not fast.04:10
sistobenson: that's another option04:10
bensonPerhaps a better option would be porting Dalvik to run natively in Maemo04:11
bensonThen, with fairly little additional magic, Android apps would work in Maemo.04:11
ppiresbenson: i've not copied modules. could it be the issue?04:11
bensonppires: I wonder if it works better if you disable the watchdog?04:12
ppiresbenson: how can i do that?04:12
bensonppires: about modules, could be.04:12
bensonIDK, I've never compiled a kernel for the tablet.04:12
ppireshow can i boot the system in single mode?04:12
ppiressomething that allows me to get the modules there04:13
bensonheheh. You don't?04:14
bensonWhat initfs are you using?04:14
bensonIf you've got bootmenu, you probably (hopefully) have some remote access options.04:15
bensonSince you're running stock... probably only serial console.04:15
ppiresbenson: just flashed it yesterday. the only thing i did was to recompile the kernel and flash it04:15
bensonThen just reflash, if there's nothing important on it?04:17
* benson is a moron.04:17
ppireswell nothing important really04:17
bensonUm, just reflash the factory kernel only.04:17
bensonNot sure why I didn't think of that.04:17
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* b-man finally finishes porting all mer/deblet base system packages to the ubuntu repo but is a little disappointed when he notices xserver-xorg-input-tslibs doesn't work properly... :\ ugh :P04:19
ppiresbenson: do u know where can i find it? instead of the entire .bin?04:19
bensonNo, I don't think you can.04:19
bensonBut no need to, the .bin will do.04:19
* benson RTFMs04:20
bensonUse --flash-only kernel04:21
Jucatohas anyone here been able to make rtcomm work on Diablo?04:22
bensonYou could also use --unpack to extract the kernel, if you needed it separately.04:22
GeneralAntillesJucato, well, rtcomm is shipped as part of the OS04:22
GeneralAntillesSo, um, everyone.04:22
ppiresyeah just saw that option in the flasher, thanks benson04:22
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GeneralAntillesIf you mean the rtcomm beta, then, no, I haven't had success trying to install the one from Extras-devel.04:22
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bensonGeneralAntilles: thx, I'm a lazy google-addict.04:23
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JucatoI was pointed to that one when I asked how to be able to integrate other IM protocols into N810's chat and contacts04:23
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Jucato(with telepathy-haze apparently)04:24
Jucatobut the repos are for chinook, so I've got version mismatches...04:24
GeneralAntillesI need to harass the rtcomm guys about putting ALL of the required packages into Extras. . . .04:24
GeneralAntillesJucato, add the Collabora repo and install accounts-plugin-haze and telepathy-haze04:25
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RockyDdcan I change the default 'accept' request header for the browser? for04:26
Jucatoehehe. google time :)04:26
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RockyDdwhat's the name of the default browser04:30
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Jucatoheh no wonder I'm not getting search results.. stupid typos :)04:31
JucatoGeneralAntilles: are you the only one who can do infobot queries? (so that I will stop trying :P)04:33
infobotfrom memory, infobot is me. I love abuse, feed me!, or an interactive bot that can learn all sorts of information (, or updated sources at, or a robot that doesn't know it should only speak when spoken to, or on fire, or awesome.04:33
bensonNo, jusy only things the infobot knows about work.04:34
infobotbenson meant: No, just only things the infobot knows about work.04:34
Jucatohehe :)04:34
Jucatooh cool! a sed bot too :)04:34
bensonCool, if a little annoying at times. I can read sed, I don't (usually) need a bot to explain it to me.04:35
infobotbenson meant: Cool, if a little annoying at times. I can read sed, I don't (usually) need a moron to explain it to me.04:35
bensonIt can be fun, though. ;)04:35
Jucato(though I know it only works on what *you* said)04:36
infobotJucato meant: (though I know it only works on what *you* sed)04:36
b-man~burn himself04:36
* infobot pours gasoline all over himself, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze04:36
b-manlol XD04:36
benson~lart himself for not having the good grace to perish when ignited.04:38
* infobot lowers himself's priority for not having the good grace to perish when ignited.04:38
b-maninfobot: blow up04:39
* infobot blows up04:39
bensonWe should stop playing with the bot, the grown-ups will come. ;)04:39
GeneralAntillesWhere is a new telepathy/haze?04:39
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GeneralAntillesWell, no wonder haze isn't available.04:41
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JucatoGeneralAntilles: the repo link you gave was for chinook though... trying to change the repo part to diablo04:44
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GeneralAntillesJucato, this is a mess.04:45
GeneralAntillesI need to go and harass some people about cleaning this up.04:45
Jucatohehe thanks :)04:45
bensonYay for harassment!04:45
JucatoI must say though, that I was a bit surprised that the built-in contacts didn't support Yahoo!Messenger... not that I'm really complaining... just bewildered :)04:45
bensonDouble-yay for me not having to be involved on either end of it!04:46
Jucatowoe is me having more YM contacts than Google/Jabber ones :(04:46
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Jucato(yay no MSN though :P)04:46
* benson must be antisocial...04:47
bensonOnly ~6 contacts, all family.04:47
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Jucatoor you just haven't asked your friends for theirs.. or your friends haven't asked yours :)04:47
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bensonHmmm... and that doesn't sound antisocial enough? ;p04:48
Jucatoit might be that your friends just don't care :)04:48
bensonOh, cool, they're antisocial too.04:49
bensonI should start an antisocial networking site for folks like us. XD04:49
Jucatoor just mean :)04:49
Jucatoheheh antisocial networking :)04:49
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GeneralAntillesJucato, it'd require licensing and legal agreements with MSN/Yahoo/AIM/ICQ/whatever.04:50
Jucatosince it's being distributed commercially? (unlike software like Pidgin/Kopete?)04:51
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Jucatoah well, I can create an account and seemingly connect.. but can't seem to send messages..05:04
Jucato(Network Error)05:04
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Jucatoah it seems I can connect, but can't send...05:09
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lcuk :)05:16
lcukstanding on the shoulders mate :) linux has a good heart05:17
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GeneralAntillesStupid piece of shit client05:22
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GeneralAntillesOccasionally new messages cause the window they appear in to stop drawing. <_<05:22
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bensonlcuk: Can it read mail? (Zawinski's law!)05:25
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lcukbenson :) no i dont know it.  but if you do, you are free to make a widget that does05:27
bensonWell, if such a widget can be made, you are all but guaranteed survival!05:28
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lcuki need to go back to bed anyway :) gnite05:30
b-mansee ya lcuk05:30
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* b-man fixed the xserver-xorg-input-tslibs problem btw, just uploaded an un-modified version from mer repo :P05:31
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genewitchtee: /proc/sys/kernel/vdso: Operation not permitted :-(06:22
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genewitcherror:  "Operation not permitted" setting key "vm.vdso_enabled"06:25
genewitchwhy is that vdso breaking everything06:28
genewitchi can't edit the value of that on my shell06:28
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skiburcan we run java apps on N800 Diablo?06:41
Mouseysucks eh?06:43
MouseyWELL I AGREE!!06:43
Mouseywrite your local nokia representative!!06:43
GeneralAntillesEr, well, that's not entirely accurate06:43
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GeneralAntillesJalimo is available.06:43
Mouseythat's not an entire jvm, so i guess you're right.06:43
* Mousey causes trouble06:44
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skiburso I can't use Javac ?06:49
genewitchso we need a java port?06:50
skiburso javac hasn't been ported?06:52
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kessuhi, i installed dropbear-server os2008 but forgot to set any passwd for root, has diablo root any default passwd?09:45
Stskeeps'rootme' maybe09:50
kessuthanks i try that09:50
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Stskeepsjohnx: poke10:10
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Stskeeps <- Mer on a Pocket Loox 72010:15
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Stskeepsmorning Meiz_n81010:30
Meiz_n810morning Sts10:30
StskeepsMeiz_n810: was bored earlier: :>10:31
timelesshello world10:34
timelesswhere do bugs in MaemoPad live?10:34
timelessdoes the SDK actually cover it?10:34
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: neat, how big is that screen?10:34
StskeepsMeiz_n810: 480x64010:35
Stskeepsnot sure how much in inch10:35
* benson was already looking up the device.10:35
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Stskeepsbesides the fact you need Haret to run linux, it's surprisingly friendly10:37
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Stskeepsand i has touchscreen!10:53
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timelessoh brother10:55
* timeless kicks maemopad10:55
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genewitchcan someone help me with scratchbox install11:01
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Stskeepsgenewitch: using debian/ubuntu and using the scripts usually does the trick11:03
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genewitchStskeeps: hey11:10
genewitchStskeeps: i am in ubuntu 3211:10
genewitchi'm getting error after error after error11:10
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genewitchroot@genewitch-desktop:/home/genewitch# scratchbox11:12
genewitchERROR: Not allowed to run this as root!11:12
genewitchgenewitch@genewitch-desktop:~$ scratchbox11:12
genewitchbash: /usr/bin/scratchbox: Permission denied11:12
genewitchguess what i /scratchbox/sbin/adduser named11:12
timelessstskeeps: did you get around to using my debs?11:13
genewitchwhere is the "run_this_first" script in scratchbox11:18
Stskeepsgenewitch: did you add yourself with the sbox adduser thing?11:18
Stskeepsand re-login?11:18
genewitchStskeeps: what does relogin mean11:19
genewitchi'm in a terminal in xwindows11:19
Stskeepsgenewitch: log in your user again to refresh your group permissions11:19
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genewitchoh, i can reboot.11:19
timelessyou could just use 'login'11:20
timelessor ssh localhost11:20
genewitchits in a vm11:20
genewitchi'm rebooting11:20
genewitchthis is the third try for getting a devel environment11:20
timelessjust grab the one from mozilla.org11:21
genewitchtimeless: i tried the mer vdmk11:23
genewitchi tried using my shell account but no vdso11:23
timelessMer isn't a scratchbox...11:23
timelessit's the real OS11:23
* timeless grumbles11:24
Stskeeps <- we so need a better 480x640 theme11:26
* timeless frowns11:26
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* timeless can't find it anymore11:26
timelessyeah, that doesn't scale well11:27
timelesssts: can you switch to 'stretched', or is that stretched?11:27
Stskeepstimeless: hmm? didn't touch wallpaper11:27
Stskeepstouchscreen driver dries out :)11:27
genewitchtimeless: ok so i installed mer vdmk11:27
genewitchand i couldn't get anything to compile11:27
Stskeepsgenewitch: apt-get build-essential11:28
genewitchit looked like the n80011:28
Stskeepsgenewitch: apt-get install build-essential11:28
Stskeepsi mean11:28
Stskeepsmaybe dpkg-dev too11:28
genewitchStskeeps: i have [sbox-: ~]11:28
Stskeepsgenewitch: ok, so what are you trying to develop for exactly :)11:28
timelessif you're using mer, there's no point in using scratchbox11:28
timelessscratchbox is for when your host isn't debian11:29
timelesse.g. CentOS11:29
timelessor at least, that's that way it should be11:29
genewitchStskeeps: i've been trying to 12 hours and now i'm drunk. but i have an sbox login11:29
Stskeepstimeless: er.. scratchbox is for accelerating cross-compilation11:29
genewitchso i figure that's ready.11:29
Stskeepsgenewitch: well, i meant, what OS are you trying to develop for :)11:29
timelesssts: sure11:29
genewitchStskeeps: er... armv61 n80011:29
genewitchi want to port stuff for the people who use it11:30
Stskeepsgenewitch: yes, that's the machine, what OS? :P11:30
StskeepsMaemo or Mer11:30
genewitchStskeeps: OS200811:30
timelessdon't use Mer then11:30
genewitchthe OS i have11:30
Stskeepsalright - then you should look at the SDK VMDK's of Maemo then11:30
timelessgrab a nice simple CentOS VMware image w/ scratchbox11:30
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genewitchtimeless: that was like 8 hours ago11:30
StskeepsMer is a seperate OS :)11:30
genewitchi installed ubuntu fresh11:30
genewitchfrom ubuntu disc11:30
genewitchi used the two scripts11:31
timelessthat's one11:31
timelessis another11:31
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* RockyDd wants to install git in n81011:31
timelessrockydd: iirc it's available11:32
timelessx-fade: stupid question11:33
timelesswould you object if i renamed 'Internet call' to 'VoIP' ?11:33
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X-FadeRegular users wouldn't know VoIP..11:33
X-FadeI would know what it is..11:34
timelessso, here's my problem11:34
X-FadeBut my sister woud not..11:34
timelessInternet call - This is Long11:34
timelessWhen I try calling someone11:34
timelessI see:11:34
X-Fadenet call? web call? :)11:34
timelessInternet Call - Thomas Some...11:34
timelessand Some isn't guaranteed to be unique11:35
X-Fadetimeless: Get rid of the ... and get 3 chars more ;)11:35
timelessx-fade: beyond my control11:35
timelessNet Call would buy me a couple of chars11:35
timelesshow about:11:36
timeless'net Call ?11:36
X-Fadetimeless: iCall [tm] ;)11:37
timelessnot going there11:37
timelessrst38h: the question again is "would your sister understand?"11:37
timelessx-fade veto'd VoIP11:37
timelessX-Fade: Voice Chat? :)11:38
X-Fadenet call is already streching it..11:38
StskeepsPhonebook -> Call11:38
timelessi can't just use "Call"11:38
timelessi'd be arrested when someone couldn't make an e911 call11:38
Stskeepsin MCE there's emergency call stuff :P11:39
Stskeepsand some handler for emergency calls.. i'm sure it'll be there eventually11:39
X-FadeHeh, imagine the horror when you translate that into Dutch "Internet gesprek"11:39
X-FadeNo space left ;)11:39
genewitchi got voip working nicely11:41
genewitchthe other night11:41
genewitchvoip was well worth the $150 i spent11:41
Stskeepsi seriously wonder who that Huang Gao guy is on maemo-developers11:41
Stskeepsi'm curiously thinking it's those chinese internet tablet guys :P11:41
X-FadeStskeeps: Probably some OEM..11:42
genewitchis the SDK supposed to be installed in scratchbox?11:42
Stskeepsyes, the scripts will install into scratchbox11:42
timelessi still need a string11:43
timelessI'm tempted to use Voice Chat11:43
timelessit buys me 3 chars11:43
timelesswhich isn't bad11:43
X-Fadetimeless: Sounds reasonable.11:43
* timeless wonders what "Call does not support video" means11:45
X-FadeOther party doesn't support video ?11:45
Stskeeps"No chance for webcam sex, dude."11:46
genewitchyou know11:46
timeless"Remote client unable to support video"11:46
genewitchthe docs don't say that11:46
timeless=. "Remote party does not support video"11:46
timelesswhat's a client and why did my user -- oh nevermind11:46
timeless"End current call to start new call"11:47
genewitchPEER CLOSED CONN11:47
timelessok, so...11:47
timelessis it true that you can only have one Voice Chat open at a time?11:48
timeless=> "Can only have one Voice Chat at a time"11:48
timeless'Internet call'11:49
timeless(name changed locally)11:49
genewitchtimeless: i've never tried to start more than one, but i can11:50
genewitchyou want me to try?11:50
JaffaMorning, all11:51
Stskeepsmorning jaffa11:52
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* Stskeeps ssh's into his pocket loox 72011:52
genewitchtimeless: it won't let me open more than one internet call11:53
timelessx-fade, app="Voice Chat", what would you use to describe the act of trying to connect to your party11:53
timelessif it were 'Internet call', it'd be 'calling'11:54
timelessi'm vaguely trying to avoid using call*11:54
timelessbut if it's correct, i'll leave it out11:54
timelessit seems Connecting exists and is distinct11:54
timelessCalling is asking the other party for a chat11:54
timelessConnecting is when the other party says yes11:55
timelessand you need to establish a real channel11:55
X-FadeSetup connection?11:55
timeless"Asking party to chat" ?11:55
timelessInviting seems ok11:55
X-Fadedisclaimer: non-native speaker ;)11:56
* timeless wonders what "Call unauthorized" means11:56
X-FadeIf the other party doesn't have you in his list?11:56
X-FadeHas not approved you?11:57
RST38hMeans "fuck off". Uses less chars. Sister will understand.11:57
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timelessx-fade: yeah11:57
* Stskeeps ponders what gadgets in his office doesn't run Mer yet.11:59
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X-FadeI have a Agenda VR3 that needs Mer too ;)12:01
X-FadeAlthough that hardware is pretty old..12:01
Stskeepsi'm not sure ubuntu has a MIPS port12:02
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Stskeepsstill, this pocket loox thing isn't that bad. i mean: 520mhz, 128mb, wifi, infrared, bluetooth, SD, CF12:04
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RST38hSts: If you can replace WinMo on an arbitrary HTC device, you have got a winner onyour hands12:05
StskeepsRST38h: if a linux kernel boots.. hmm12:06
Stskeepsthe problem is always the winmo need to do HaRet stuff12:06
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RST38hNo way to rewrite its MSDOS.SYS file? =)12:07
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RockyDdI had add the repository of extras-devel, why I can't install git?12:12
Stskeepsapt-get install git-core from terminal then12:12
RockyDdit's not in the list12:13
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Stskeepsyeah, it prolly isn't user/12:13
* Jaffa reads scrollback and'll happily accept a beer from crashanddie at the next summit :)12:13
RockyDdoh, I see, out of disk space  :(12:14
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RockyDdwhat does 'osso' stands for?12:19
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lcukheh jaffa, i personally think we should invest in our own brewery12:20
lcukwe can make the excuse its research and development for fuel cells for the next gentablet ;)12:21
lcuk"a little nip for me, and one for my n9000.  hic"12:21
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genewitchafter i "make" something in scratchbox, how do i move the finished product to my device for testing?12:25
genewitchi'm making kismet right now12:25
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RockyDdcan i install software to the internal 2G SD card?12:41
genewitchRockyDd: it does by default i thin12:41
genewitchif you have it in there\12:42
genewitchi havent' run out of space yet12:42
genewitchthe internal card is synonymous with a hard disk12:42
genewitchthe external SD card is like a CDROM or whatever12:42
X-Fadegenewitch: No.12:42
RockyDdoh.. so12:43
X-FadeIt installs software on the root fs.12:43
X-FadeIt doesn't use the internal 2gb for that.12:43
RockyDdcan I change this?12:43
X-FadeRockyDd: You can create symlinks..12:44
RST38hgenewitch: All your software goes to /12:44
RockyDdoh, right.12:44
RST38hgenewitch: cards are /media/mmc1 and /media/mmc2/ , they are normally formatted as FAT and cannot contain any executables12:44
RST38hI.e. you can put an exacutable binary there but it will not run12:45
genewitchok so i was wrong12:45
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genewitchnow what about my question from 20 minutes ago?12:45
RST38hX-Fade: If you symlink, the symlinked binary still will not run12:45
RockyDdcan I format it to ext3?12:45
RST38hgenewitch: Please repeat12:45
genewitchafter i "make" something in scratchbox, how do i move the finished product to my device for testing?12:45
X-FadeRockyDd: Yes, you can. But know that your maps are on the 2GB part.12:46
genewitchi've made kismet.12:46
RST38hgenewitch: you can do it with scp for example12:46
RockyDdoh, got it.12:47
genewitchRST38h: i don't mean moving the actual files. how do i capture what make install does so that i can move those files to my device12:47
X-Fadegenewitch: Make a debian package?12:48
RockyDdwhy I didn't see the info for /media/mmc112:48
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RST38hgenewitch: you have to make a deb file12:49
RockyDdi mean in the mount  list12:49
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RST38hgenewitch: good way to start would be to read documentation and howtos at maemo.org12:49
genewitchRST38h: yeah uh, the docs said to msg Stskeeps12:50
genewitchhere i am12:50
genewitchthe arm build is complete12:50
genewitchi guess i can trial and error it though12:50
genewitchnot that big of a deal12:50
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X-Fadegenewitch: dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot12:54
RST38hgenewitch: The docs actually provideyou with A CLEAR EXAMPLE12:54
RST38hLemme find it12:54
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Jucato(wow.. I thought I escaped debian packaging way back in kubuntu...)12:58
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genewitchneither of those links told me what i needed to know13:00
genewitchthe first one, i ran the code listed13:00
genewitchand it says "are you in the source directory?"13:00
genewitchand yes, i already had run make in there.13:01
genewitchthe binaries are completed13:01
RockyDdwhen I run git show, it says: pager: not found13:02
Stskeepsexport PAGER=more maybe13:02
RockyDdyeah, it works! thanks13:03
X-Fadegenewitch: When you run make, you have a bunch of files that need to be installed all over the place.13:03
X-Fadegenewitch: That is where packaging comes in..13:04
genewitchX-Fade: right, that make install usually copies13:06
genewitchdpkg-checkbuilddeps -B13:07
genewitch: Using Scratchbox tools to satisfy builddeps13:07
genewitchtest -x debian/rules13:07
genewitchmake: *** [testdir] Error 113:07
genewitchdo i need to copy the source directory to Mer?13:07
X-Fadegenewitch: So you don't have any debian files in there.13:07
genewitchX-Fade: yeah, i just have the source and the finished compile13:08
X-FadeThat is why most people start off with a debian source package in the fist place ;)13:08
X-FadeOr ubuntu source package of course..13:08
Stskeepsgenewitch: are you using Maemo SDK, right? :P13:08
genewitchX-Fade: wget <source URL>. tar -xzvf <source.tar.gz>. ./configure13:08
genewitchX-Fade: make13:08
genewitchthat's what i've done.13:08
X-Fadegenewitch: This is not slackware.13:09
genewitchX-Fade: i'm in ubuntu with scratchbox and the SDK13:09
genewitchi'm currently IN scratchbox13:09
genewitchi downloaded source for what i wanted to compile13:09
genewitchi've compiled it13:09
genewitchi want it on my n800 now13:09
genewitcher... sorry if i am coming off that way13:10
genewitchi'm a developer, sorta. i don't like jumping through 14 hours of hoops to build an application13:10
genewitchafter it's explained once, i shouldn't have any problems again, as i've built slackware infinite times13:11
* Stskeeps hands Myrtti knitting gear13:11
Myrttimmmmm yarn13:11
genewitchMyrtti: use a #14 needles13:11
genewitchStskeeps: it said to msg you if i wanted to do stuff for the project13:11
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Stskeepsgenewitch: ah, yes, what are your interests?13:12
genewitchStskeeps: i want to understand what to do after the application(sic) is compiles13:12
infobotgenewitch meant: Stdkeeps: i want to understand what to do after the application(sic) is compiles13:12
Stskeepsgenewitch: i'm a bit curious what you're doing right now, did you get Maemo SDK, and running it on a Ubuntu VM, for targetting OS2008, right?13:12
genewitchStskeeps: i'm a security auditor, but i like playing with operating systems. I've been using bsd/linux since 1997, installing pretty much every major flavor of linux since before redhat went to fedora core.13:13
Stskeepsgenewitch: alright, and scratchbox makes the best of us go into a raging fit once in a while, just so you don't think you're going crazy :)13:14
genewitchStskeeps: well, yeah. i got kubuntu 32 bit, installed it in vmware, got it all set up and updated. then followed the directions with some help from this channel to get the scratchbox and SDK in there13:14
genewitchi have your mer vmdk on vmware as well, but not using it right now13:14
genewitchi think it's yours at least13:14
Stskeepsyeah, is my production13:14
genewitchyes, it rocks, btw. good work13:14
Stskeepshehe, we're always in need of more hands13:14
genewitch:-) i'll port what i can.13:15
Stskeepswe have entire ubuntu catalogue, which helps a lot on things13:15
genewitchi'm just trying kismet as i know i've successfully built it from source before13:15
genewitchit doesn't matter that it won't do anything useful, i just want to learn the whole "developing in a sandbox" paradigm13:16
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Stskeepshehe, Mer is trying to move a bit away from that, seeing scratchbox as an accelerator of compilation, not what defines the target platform13:17
gene800on n800 for a minute13:17
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Stskeeps(or at least, i am trying to move it away from that)13:17
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Stskeepsregarding Mer participation,  - basically send a small email to me what you do / interested in / etc, and then read through and current Sprint is
Stskeepsand you'll get a jaiku invite to be able to render your activities visible13:19
gene800sts i installed the vdmk earlier, but i couldn't compile from it; so i installed scratchbox on another vm13:19
Stskeepsgenewitch: yeah, you can compile if you apt-get install build-essential dpkg-dev13:19
Stskeepslike on a standard ubuntu13:19
gene800Stskeeps, yeah but it tends to want to do  x8613:20
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Stskeepswell. if it compiles on x86, and you send source package to builder (scratchbox) it will work in 80% of cases, and if the scratchbox build fails, it tries armel native (95%, 5% is if the program is not ARM compatible)13:21
gene800i don't want to sign up/ commit to anything that is technically unclear to me13:21
Stskeeps*nod* i think we're just not documenting things that well yet13:22
gene800sts prior statement is unclear13:22
Stskeepsthe VMDK is basically Mer OS, for x86 - you could even install it on a laptop and develop for that platform13:22
Stskeepswe also have Mer for armel, where you can compile natively on that one too13:22
Stskeepsand then we have Scratchbox SDK, which runs on x86, and cross-compiles to armel13:22
timelessyou could also try using Mer-armel w/ system-qemu13:22
Stskeepstimeless: yeah, we do13:23
Stskeepsthat's the armel builder :P13:23
gene800sts i am using scratchbox sdk13:23
Stskeepslo yerga, cool that wordpy works on mer :)13:23
yergaStskeeps, yeah it is :)13:24
gene800kismet compiled   ls shows green kismet-server    etc.13:24
Stskeepsgene800: and this is the Maemo SDK, right?13:24
Stskeeps(there's a big difference between Mer and Maemo SDK, so :P)13:24
gene800Stskeeps, yes. ran both scripts and set it up13:25
Stskeepsthen you can probably just scp them to your device or something13:25
genewitchsomeone else mentioned dpkg13:25
guerbyhi, is there a magic key to get out of a reboot loop on N810? I don't have the USB cable to reflash...13:26
genewitchbuilding for it13:26
Stskeeps(normally people start out by taking the Debian source package, then build it)13:26
genewitchStskeeps: hehe i build from straight tarballs 90% of the time13:26
Stskeepsgenewitch: yeah.. and that makes things a bit difficult for tablet stuff13:26
genewitchStskeeps: it does?13:26
genewitchthat's a pity13:26
JaffaNah, just use mud13:26
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Stskeepsgenewitch: well, you have to move your binaries and resulting tree manually ;13:27
Jaffa - for example vim package is built from upstream tarball with auto-Maemoification13:27
genewitchStskeeps: i've never built a package before as i am usually just porting stuff for my own use to various OS/CPUs13:27
Stskeepsgenewitch: *nod*13:27
genewitchStskeeps: so i guess what i should ask is... after i've compiled an app, what should i move to where to build a .deb13:28
Stskeepsgenewitch: normally you need to make your own debian packaging for the stuff13:28
genewitchStskeeps: ok13:28
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genewitchis there a "catchall" sort of diff /pathtosourcebefore /pathtofinishedcompile thing that i can use to build a .deb for the n800?13:29
Stskeepsgenewitch: think Jaffa's stuff would be the best shot13:29
genewitchi was hoping i could just capture the "make install" portion of the build13:30
X-Fadegenewitch: And do read up on debian packaging. That will give you a lot more insight.13:30
Mekgenewitch: you might be able by setting the DESTDIR env variable to a dir where you want everything to be installed13:30
genewitchan xml file?13:30
Stskeepsgenewitch: but anyway.. debian packaging is very valuable to learn how to do well when dealing with stuff like Maemo and Mer13:31
genewitchStskeeps: i'll read up on it tomorrow i suppose13:31
genewitchif i can build something useful, i'll send you an email or whatever to be on the porter list13:31
Stskeepsyeah - we also need testers and people with ideas for improvement or auditing our scripts13:32
genewitchwhich scripts13:33
Stskeepswell we have session scripts and stuff13:33
Stskeepsor just typical stuff, - OS is meant to be "single user", but yeah13:33
timelessis there a way to force quit an app in Mer?13:35
timelessMaemo Mapper is full screened and not responding13:35
Stskeepstimeless: load-applet i guess13:35
Stskeepsuse f7?13:35
Stskeepsi think one of them might work13:35
timelessit isn't responding13:35
Stskeepsmm, then no, normally there would be soemthing noticing things have stalled13:36
timelessit's quite dead13:37
* timeless pulls the vmware power plug13:38
timelesswhich is hard13:38
timelessthere's no button for it13:38
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timelessinstead, i have to open prefs, change the default behavior to shutdown, quit, run it again, and change the pref back to suspend13:38
lcuktimeless, isnt there simply a restart system option for the vmware player :)13:42
lcuki remember rebooting my vmware images occasionally13:42
timelessyou probably have pro13:42
timelessor something like it13:42
lcukno, free player13:42
lcuk*had   if i still had it installed id tell ya exactly what it was13:43
timelessi see no sign of it13:43
timelessTo reset a virtual machine, choose VMware Player > Troubleshoot > Reset.13:43
timelessTo power off a virtual machine, choose VMware Player > Troubleshoot > Power Off and Exit.13:43
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Stskeepsyerga: heh, you ended up in qgil's bookmarks :)13:50
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EgSI wonder how I can make use of the LEDs the n810 provides for notifications in my app. Any pointers to some doc?14:04
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genewitch./configure --prefix=<location>14:10
genewitchis evidently the solution to the problem i was having14:10
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wazdhola everybody14:12
RST38hmoo wazd14:12
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genewitchson of a gun14:12
wazdnobody has replied to me :(14:12
genewitchwhat does "sudo: must be suid root" mean and how do i fix it on "sudo make install"14:13
genewitchsetuid root, not suid14:13
Stskeepswazd: :(14:14
Stskeepswazd: <- challenge, how could Mer look on a 480x640, 3.5"14:15
RST38hSts: BTW, that PocketPC Linux boot tool is written by our very own zap14:16
wazdStskeeps: mabe better to use it landscape?)14:16
genewitchStskeeps: if the goal is readability, not very good14:16
RST38hSts: Whom you can find at this channel14:16
zapRST38h: um?14:16
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genewitchStskeeps: if you force a perspective (4:3) then you could put controls at the bottom, but you lose readability a bit because you have to cram so much in the tiny window14:16
RST38hzap: HaRET is yours, right?14:17
zaphm well kind of, but not anymore14:17
RST38hzap: Sts uses it to boot Mer on a Pocket Loox14:17
zapI wrote it originally in 2004 iirc, but since 2006 its maintained by other people14:17
zapwell I prefer devices with native linux ;)14:17
Stskeepswazd: you dont normally use a pda in landscape :)14:17
StskeepsRST38h: hehe, didn't know that :)14:18
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genewitchok, so i have all the files that a make install would copy14:26
genewitchin a seperate folder14:26
genewitchwith the tree intact14:26
genewitchi'm assuming i can tarball that folder, and extract it on my device14:27
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infobotrumour has it, root is not a Good Thing to use when using IRC. Please use a different account.14:29
timelE61isomeone? :)14:31
Stskeeps'rootsh' :P14:32
infoboti guess rootsh is an easy way to get root and it's found here:
genewitchtimelE61i: sudser install from applications14:35
genewitchthen just su -14:35
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genewitchsorry, install sudser and then in terminal run sudo su14:35
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genewitchgood god, why doesn't ubuntu come with ftp14:38
genewitchftp: not found14:38
genewitcheven windows has the decency to include that14:39
jumpuladecency to include half-assed version one prefers to do without :P14:39
* Jaffa cries at the update from Andre on
genewitchit's a 15 minute ordeal to get gftp installed14:39
lcukgenewitch, checked as sudo - doesnt root have more apps available14:39
X-Fadegenewitch: Huh? apt-get istall gftp14:39
X-FadeDone ;)14:39
genewitchjumpula: i cant' complain with ftp, put blah, bye14:39
genewitchX-Fade: yeah, it's HUGE.14:40
andre__Jaffa, yeah. not cool14:40
genewitchX-Fade: i've been waiting on this install forever now14:40
Jaffaandre__: I may have slipped into a bit of a rant when I reopened it :-/14:40
andre__no problem, i can make that a real rant ;-)14:41
X-Fadegenewitch: It is not huge. You just didn't have all dependencies yet.14:41
genewitchX-Fade: fresh install14:41
Jaffaandre__: ta, your patience is appreciated14:41
X-Fadegenewitch: Well if you have installed ubuntu desktop, then I really can't imagine it being a large install.14:42
jumpulagenewitch: what about wget?14:42
jumpulagenewitch: does ubuntu provide that by default?14:42
lcukjaffa, im actually surprised you can do an ssu without explicitely saying "yes, i have done a backup"14:42
Jaffalcuk: shush, don't give them ideas.14:43
lcukit removes it from being a tagline at the bottom14:43
genewitchjumpula: wget can put files?14:43
jumpulano, i was assuming you want to get14:44
X-Fadegenewitch: That is what you sftp for ;)14:44
X-Fadeor scp.14:44
lcukqget can if i remember rightly14:44
genewitchjumpula: i need to move this file from a VM in scratchbox to my FTP server, so i can get it on my n800 to install it14:44
jumpulaand ftp server is naturally on different host?14:45
lcukgenewitch, wouldnt it be simpler to ssh directly to tablet from within scratchbox and copy it where required...14:45
genewitchlcuk: yeah i never bothered setting up sshd on the tablet14:45
lcukthat would be simpler and more functional and less messy longterm and doesnt take an amazing amount of time14:46
genewitchjumpula: yeah it is going vm->hostos -> random shell i own's ftp -> n80014:46
X-FadetimelE61i: FYI:
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lcukand remote admin of the tablet is great14:46
genewitchlcuk: sudo does have ftp14:47
genewitchwhat in the heck14:47
lcuk:) regular user does not have rights to do ftp :)14:47
genewitchcan't upload passwd!14:47
keesj would be cool for maemo (using osm of course)14:52
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Jaffakeesj: why would I want to use OSM when I actually want to see where my friends are? ;-(14:53
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lcukjaffa, the problem of the friend mapping systems are scale.  its one thing having map and local mates around, but impractical to use daily to have a localized map showing friends around the world as the default view (I think its ovi friendview that does this)14:54
lcukie - it would be amazingly useful to have such a map available as an alternative view from jaiku or twitter - but the default info views are more useful14:55
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genewitchahhhhhhhhh no libpcap14:56
genewitchthis could take a year14:56
keesjJaffa: perhaps for us nerdy people it would be enough to know where "good /open source" people are located14:56
keesjI don't have enough friends with maemos14:57
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lcukkeesj, tied with other services it doesnt matter which device people have14:58
keesjok , the truth is that I don't have friends14:59
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pupnikrare/random oldskool hardware:|66%3A2|65%3A12|39%3A1|240%3A131815:00
pupnikatari 2600 synth15:00
lcukpupnik, cool - just wish they had used the paddles to allow scratching and mixing and crossfading ;)15:01
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Chikuil y a des francais et qui est chez free? pour des rensiegment pour le SIP15:11
Chikuca marche pour toi pour le freephonie?15:12
rzr_Chiku: /j #ecologie for freench speaking15:12
rzr_Chiku:  avec twinkle oui15:12
Jari--while we are at it, let's try Simplified Chinese Pinyin too15:12
Chikuni hao Jari--15:12
Jari--Chiku: ni hao he niman hao ;-)15:13
Jari--nimen eh15:13
aquatixJari--: gaarne!15:13
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Chikucan I flash to diablo? or just update from chinook ?15:16
aquatixyou have to flash15:17
infobotFast and efficient NNTP newsfeeder software. URL:, or a better link-time optimizer. More information can be found at
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timelessjaffa++ for complaining about the English15:18
timelessor en-FI15:18
Chikuok I got it15:19
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timelessjaffa: ping15:21
Jaffatimeless: pong15:22
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zeenix<timeless> jaffa++ for complaining about the English15:32
zeenixtimeless: and you were saying timeless is different person than Josh :)15:32
kulvezeenix: Hi! Any news on the gupnp backend for gvfs? :)15:32
zeenixkulve: yeah, the guy is busy with lots of other things15:33
kulveI tried to find it from the prealpha2 sources, but found nothing15:33
zeenixkulve: while gvfs backend would be really cool and all that, i think for your usecase MAFW makes more sense15:34
zeenixkulve: it won't be on maemo itself of course :)15:34
zeenixkulve: unless someone from Nokia does it15:34
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kulvemafw looks pretty empty:
RockyDdwhen I run git diff, got this: pager: applet not found15:37
zeenixkulve: oh its' still empty15:37
zeenixi'll talk to those guys15:37
zeenixkulve: but you can read ths docs at least to get to know what it is and if you'll want to use it or not15:38
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wazdPlease welcome OMWeather API :)15:42
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wazdYou'll be able to add any rss feed to OMW :)15:43
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RST38hwazd: Why not use OMWeather experience and codebase to implement an RSS reader? [wink]15:58
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RST38h...the new 1.66GHz Atom N280 CPU, replacing the elder's 1.6GHz N270. Unfortunately the slight bump in clock and bus speed (from 133MHz to 167MHz)...16:02
RST38h133MHz. Hehe.16:03
aquatixerm, that's a typo16:03
aquatix533 -> 66716:03
RST38hI hope so16:03
RST38h'cause if it is 133, you won't even need PC RAM chips for this thing.16:04
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wazd_hpRST38h: well, then we can add chess, notepad, mediaplayer :)16:41
ezadkiel_mBI am trying to see what IP address my N810 is using is there a way to do it on the device16:41
RST38hwazd: Actually, those are different16:43
RST38hwazd: I mentioned RSS because it is natural to have RSS as a desktop widget *and* because Nokia's RSS widget is so gross16:43
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wazd_hpRST38h: ah, I thought you meant to add "rss reading functionality to OMWeather itself :)16:46
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wazdRST38h: We have so much to do with weather and a very small ammount of time for it :(16:47
crashanddieJaffa: my apologies if I have offended you, there was nothing personal in that email16:47
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JaffaMeh, apology accepted - no real offense taken; I'm just getting fed up16:48
wazdit was like "Die Jaffa, diiieee!111" xD16:48
wazdjust kidding)16:48
crashanddieI think everyone has had enough about this topic16:48
wazdI'm just happy that we solved all problems with OMWeather at last and the work keeps going16:49
crashanddieI think this is a religious war topic, no point in trying to solve it through discussing. As Dave said, we're just stating opinions, and not trying to achieve something at this point16:49
crashanddielet's just take a decision and live with it, not everyone's going to be happy, but sod it.16:50
JaffaWe've got some suggested referenda which will let The People[TM] decide16:50
crashanddieworks for me (c)16:50
mgedminezadkiel_mB: yes; settings -> connections manager has it somewhere iirc16:51
mgedminor you can install the HomeIP applet16:51
mgedminor you can run 'ip a' or 'ifconfig' in the terminal16:51
ezadkiel_mBthank mgedmin16:51
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wazdbtw, was it mentioned that Maemo 5 will be running on Beagleboard somewhen within OpenBOSSA conference?16:52
Stskeepsi thought FOSDEM16:52
wazdit's even closer :)16:53
wazdso I think we have to wait 4 days for new UI :)16:53
lcuki would hope its already running on beagleboard, or at least if not then it should be at least planned for16:53
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* Stskeeps wonders if frank.wagner is actually trying to make people do his research and he's posting the results on some IT newspaper..17:05
benson[away]No, actually, he's a politician:
Stskeepsif that's the guy that's frightening17:08
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kaltsihey guys, it's me who's gonna talk about running maemo on beagleboard in fosdem :)17:08
Stskeepskaltsi: hehe, shouldn't be that difficult :)17:09
thopiekaris someone of you familiar in python and has knowledge in the languages german and english? then please make a translation of this file ;)17:09
kaltsidon't get your hopes up about seeing something fancy at this time yet17:10
Stskeepskaltsi: i think showing maemo shouldn't "just" be a nokia tablet thing is a good thing nevertheless17:10
kaltsiyeah that's the jest of the talk.. and maybe even the beef17:11
Stskeepsfor example, &
kaltsiyay :)17:12
Stskeeps(fremantle hildon)17:12
wazdStskeeps: maybe we should bundle fullres wallpaper instead of 800x480 one?17:12
Stskeepswazd: mm, maybe17:12
wazdStskeeps: it's not so big17:13
Stskeepswell in the beagle shot, the resolution is like 1280x700 or something :P17:13
kaltsiStskeeps: which kernel are you running?17:14
Stskeepskaltsi: on beagle? jaunty, .. 2.6.27-oer417:14
Stskeepsit was a quick hack, it's fairly easy to re-target mer to new devices once you have a X server & kernel booting :P17:15
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Stskeepskaltsi: in any case, wish i could go and see the presentation, - good to know there's some people playing around with maemo "on other devices" within Nokia too :)17:16
kaltsiyep, some guys use beagle to verify that their stuff works 'on other devices'17:17
wazdoh my, Yandex has answered)17:17
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roope"What does this mean for Microsoft or Nokia or Linux??? :O :( :!!!"17:19
wazdem... nurse!17:19
roope"Customers buy - in innovation - if the provider is the first (time to markets)"17:21
roope"Because otherwise you will not survive Maemo - and Nokia sets its priorities differently - from today to tomorrow - therefore sets priorities - time is money - otherwise it will be very tight for Maemo"17:21
X-Faderoope: Random quotes generator?17:21
roopeIt's almost like poetry.17:21
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benson[away]Like Haiku through Google JP->EN translation!17:24
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* wazd is so excited17:26
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AndrewFBlackHey what folder are the small tool bar icons stored in?17:26
thopiekarAndrewFBlack: on the tablet? maybe /usr/share/icons.. I'm not quite sure..17:27
AStormroope: it's worse than poetry17:27
AStormit's gibberish ;P17:27
AndrewFBlackyeah on tablet17:28
JaffaAStorm: Did you not see the inauguration?17:28
AStormwhat inauguration?17:28
themactepguys is there a reference on git repo layout for garage? what i found so far is only for svn.17:28
AStormthemactep: I think it's the same17:30
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lcukquestion: is it feasible to setup git to work in the background and sync *users* data into one mega repo type idea?17:31
lcukor is it more beneficial to setup a proper custom server17:32
themactepAStorm: i doubt it's the same since .git has no trunk/branches in separate directories17:32
AStormI mean, grab the trunk17:33
AStormand redo the same thing17:33
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Stskeepsqwerty12: :>17:36
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* qwerty12 drools17:36
qwerty12How well does it run? The processor on it is faster than N800's :)17:37
StsN801fbdev though17:37
StsN801and i need a 480x640 hd layout17:38
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dexterkhey everyone, I installed deblet,and booted it,but I can not get pass through the deblet boot splash17:42
dexterkmy n800 always reboot at last17:42
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dexterkjust left a little progress with the deblet boot splash17:42
dexterk I followed this to install a deblet on my n80017:43
dexterkanyone can help me a little?17:43
qwerty12Uhm. That says 770.17:43
dexterkbut I can not get success with
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dexterkI failed at partition with deblet-diablo.install17:46
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dexterkbut my sd card was ok17:46
Stskeepsdexterk: deblet 770 guide won't work.. do yourself a favour and look at instead17:46
Stskeepsmer is deblet's successor17:47
lcukmers successor is skynet17:47
dexterkbut it really seems no differences between 770port and 80017:48
Stskeepsdexterk: there's a lot of difference17:48
qwerty12Evidently. That's why it wont start on your N800.17:48
qwerty12You've got it partitioned now, if you really want deblet, just start again with the N800 installer17:49
dexterkmer n800 installer ,right?17:50
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Stskeepsdeblet is no more developed so17:52
qwerty12hi johnx17:52
dexterkok ,I see17:52
Stskeepsmorning johnx17:53
johnxbeen a long day's night O_o17:53
Stskeepsjohnx: saw :>17:54
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johnxyup. saw the thread. I think your layout could use a little work :D17:55
johnxwhat x server is that?17:55
johnxxorg with fbdev?17:55
johnxhow's the redraw speed?17:56
Stskeepsnot bad17:57
johnxI guess I just no how to pick devices with crappy video performance :/17:57
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qwerty12My 720 did a hell of a better job at playing back video files with CorePlayer than the N800 ever will do :/17:58
johnxwell, there's two reasons for that...17:58
qwerty12I know them but it's funny considering the 720 is older17:58
johnxit's all about the software :)17:59
qwerty12I'm a pessimist, I don't believe N8x0 will ever get decent video playback but at least there's OMAP3 now :)17:59
johnxthat's what I mean :) we have good enough hardware for most things now...we just need better software18:00
qwerty12An mplayer not stuck in the dark ages would be nice :)18:01
Corsacwhat about vlc?18:01
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qwerty12vlc runs poorly compared to mplayer on the N8x0's atm18:01
johnxCorsac, what about it? is there a nice ARM optimized version?18:01
Corsacnot sure18:01
Corsacit uses ffmpeg anyway18:02
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Stskeepsok, let's say we were going to try and bootstrap ubuntu into armv4t..18:03
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johnxfor what system?18:04
Stskeepsi wonder how long time it would take 2 beagles & a pocketloox to do it18:04
johnxStskeeps, pocketloox is 64MB of RAM, right?18:04
johnxthat's gonna hurt18:04
Stskeeps128mb actually18:04
qwerty12Can you overclock the LOOX while in linux btw? I got mine running at 600MHZ in 2003SE18:04
Stskeepsqwerty12: seems so18:05
Stskeepsi was surprised, it's about as powerful as a n80018:05
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qwerty12Damn, I so have to get my charger out.18:05
qwerty12Well, one that works anyway.18:05
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johnxI might have something better for a build box. how about qemu running on a dedicated quad core?18:05
johnxintel xeon e5420 :)18:06
Stskeepsjohnx: 520mhz PXA272, 128mb SDRAM, VGA, 3.6", 16-bit colour, irda, microphone, speaker, usb (slave & host), bluetooth, wifi, SD, compact flash18:06
Stskeeps+ camera18:06
qwerty12Two speakers :). One loud one and one designated for VoIP :)18:07
johnxpretty neat. probably the only reason I skipped over it was lack of keyboard18:07
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Stskeepsi also have one of these at my table:18:07
Stskeeps ,
Stskeepsgot android booting earlier18:08
Stskeepsvery confusing OS18:08
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Zic_N800what's the default settings for finger-keyboard on the N810 on Maemo ? when does it appear ? is it like im the N800 ?18:09
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StskeepsZic_N800: when you click the center button i think18:09
Stskeeps.. or something18:09
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johnxwow...and that htc advantage is mostly working in linux?18:10
Stskeepsmm. im not sure.18:10
AStormwhere mostly means no wifi?18:10
Stskeepsit boots, has framebuffer, at least18:10
AStormand slow fb18:10
Stskeepsi didn't play much with it18:10
dexterkanyone test the kde? is kde faster than gtk* ?18:10
johnxdexterk, kde is a desktop and gtk is a widget kit. do you mean kde and gnome or qt and gtk?18:11
Zic_N800yes. that's the fullscreen keyboard with the midle center button, but when you click on a text box, what does it happen? on the N800, it's basically the mini stylus keyboard which opens18:11
dexterki dont know what the name of maemo default wm18:11
dexterkbut I know it is written by gtk18:11
johnxdexterk, ah, it's 'hildon-desktop'18:12
dexterkjohnx: en18:12
johnxand hildon desktop is a lot faster than KDE :)18:12
dexterkIn PC,qt is faster display than gtk..18:12
Zic_N800not fully true18:12
lcukonly for greater amounts of t18:12
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X-Fadelcuk: heh ;)18:13
dexterkanyway, I actually want to use some Xlib based WM,such as openbox, twm...fvwm,lol18:13
johnxdexterk, matchbox is lighter than all of them, and you're already using it :)18:14
dexterkI think it is not lighter as twm / fvwm ?18:14
* lcuk would rather use a different wm, but theres non available18:14
johnxyou just need to get rid of the panels and other stuff18:14
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johnxdexterk, yes. matchbox is lighter than for twm, I don't know18:14
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johnxdexterk, remember, matchbox is the wm, not the desktop environment18:15
dexterkmatchbox is based on gtk2,right?18:15
Zic_N800matchbox is designed for embedded devices18:15
dexterkI see18:15
lcukif i wanted to skip the whole x11 part (to use something like directfb), i would need to listen for  events myself wouldnt i18:15
Zic_N800as it's not the mai goal of wm like openbox, twm or others...18:16
dexterkhildon-desktop is based on gtk2...18:16
aquatixdexterk: that's the gui toolkit used, yes18:16
aquatixnothing to do with the WM18:16
dexterkgreat,Mer installer is easy and good18:16
dexterkthanks all18:17
aquatixbesides, QT has been ported too alread18:17
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johnxhmm...looks like the linux-on-htc-advantage project kinda died18:22
pupnikbunch of sharper image useless consumers18:23
johnxpupnik, who?18:24
pupnikHTC customers :P18:24
johnxI gave up a long time ago on devices that didn't come with linux from the start...18:25
pupniknot that i have anything against folks who port linux to other hardware18:25
pupnikinitial support from mfgr kickstarts the community18:25
johnxpeople are more motivated to work in their spare time when they have a solid base to start from18:26
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Stskeepsjohnx: #htc-linux is kinda big though18:26
johnxI'm sure there are some HTC phones that are well supported in linux, but I wouldn't buy a winmo phone and bet on a port18:27
Stskeepshonestly though.. if you have access to flash, why can't you just figure out the bootloader and drop in some generic platform bootloader18:28
lcukisnt there a mobile version of wine (you know, it comes in a brown bag)18:28
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johnxStskeeps, the linux kernel makes a nice bootloader :) seems like niggling driver and power management issues are always the last to get solved...18:29
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lcukjohnx, thats usually what you pay for when you buy the system :)18:30
johnxlcuk, exactly :) and as a bonus I fund linux kernel development18:31
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lcukits taken many years for generic linux to be installable everywhere (a remarkable achievement18:32
lcuk*pretty much anywhere18:32
johnxmost things with 8MB of RAM and an MMU18:32
johnxand some things without either :D18:32
johnxfor everything else, there's NetBSD18:33
lcukyeah, ms are looking in that direction18:33
johnxI'm pretty sure it's just that Danger started the project with NetBSD and MS decided not to redo finished work18:33
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lcukms had their own unix flavor for a while didnt they18:34
johnxxenix I think18:35
lcuk:O shit, bbl18:35
qwerty12He's looking for a warez site to get xenix18:36
johnxI love the MS approach: Why should wer do our own Unix when instead we can painfully reimplement it piece by piece?18:37
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ccookeAh, Xenix. Actually not that bad a Unix.18:40
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qwerty12Microsoft played a part in it. How can I believe that statement? :)18:40
johnxwhich is why they through it out and grafted Unix-like features into Windows: a better challenge18:41
ccooke(MS didn't actually write it; they bought it. It's a real Unix. Actually, it's in the ancestry of SCO IIRC)18:41
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ccooke(and it's worth remembering this is the *real* SCO, not the company that later bought its assets :-)18:42
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* johnx wants one handy 'who's who' chart of which companies are actually operating under which names and who really owns which ones...18:42
johnxso easy to miss one piece of news and not realize that the current 'polaroid' has nothing to do with 'polaroid'18:43
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Mekyeah, and to not realize that the fact that your sony mobile phone's camera has a zeiss lens says nothing about the quality of th elens :)18:44
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dexterkany easy way to install matchbox in Mer?18:52
dexterkI installed Mer18:52
johnxthe window manager it's running is matchbox :)18:52
johnxsame as maemo18:52
johnxwell, actually in this case it's matchbox218:52
dexterkit is too beatiful18:53
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johnxI'll take that as a compliment :)18:53
||cwhow hard would it be to rebuild the lastest of everything for a n770?  is it even realistic?18:53
johnxbut it's wazd who made the theme...18:53
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johnx||cw, the latest of everything that has source released? basically we did it for Mer already...18:54
qwerty12Is there another method of getting free disk space apart from df? It sucks at displaying the free space (on the tablet) for "/" or "/dev/mtdblock4" on its own evidently...18:54
johnx||cw, it's still ongoing, but it's certainly a start...18:54
ccookeqwerty12: what are you actually wanting to do?18:55
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rzr_||cw: does it worth it ? is the wifi ready ?18:56
qwerty12ccooke, trying to get the free space available for / in MB preferably :). running df -h works but it adds delays as it gets the free space available on other devices. running "df /" or "df /dev/mtdblock4" doesn't :/18:56
rzr_||cw: i have a 770 too18:57
||cwi don't know, that's why i'm asking18:57
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||cwI don't care so much about a newer kernel as applications18:57
rzr_||cw: mine currently dont support wifi on nitdroid18:57
||cwI'm quite tired of installign stuff that's label for 770 HE  that segfaults18:58
rzr_||cw: i know what you mean18:58
ccookeqwerty12: ah, right. That's an annoyance, really.18:58
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||cwand the old stuff is just too old18:58
qwerty12ccooke, yep :(18:58
dexterkjohnx: Can I share with your /etc/apt/source.list* ?18:59
ccookeqwerty12: the way maemo mounts everything causes some minor confusion in df. I don't think there are any better options on the tablet, though18:59
||cwqwerty12: what's wrong with `df -h /` ?18:59
ccookeqwerty12: give me a sec while I remind myself if you can get it from /sys18:59
qwerty12ccooke, ah. Thanks :(. I'll just resort to getting to getting the entire output from df18:59
qwerty12||cw, doesn't work on the tablet18:59
ccooke||cw: the device mounted on / is mounted twice, in two places. df displays nothing.18:59
johnxdexterk, hmm? you want to see my /etc/apt/sources.list? it's the same as a normal mer, same as yours18:59
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dexterkjohnx: my Mer has nothing can be installed from application manager..19:00
Stskeepsconnect to the internet and restart AM19:00
rzr_dexterk: not even xchat ?19:00
ccookeqwerty12: gotcha.19:01
ccookeqwerty12: I knew there was something that'd do it.19:01
dexterkit is empty /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list19:01
ccookecat /proc/partitions19:01
ccookethe entry for mtdblock4 is correct for the root filesystem19:01
qwerty12ah, thank you!19:01
ccookeit's in blocks only19:01
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ccookebut you can work out anything from there19:02
johnxdexterk, the repositories are listed in different files than on maemo19:02
ccookeqwerty12: (blocks are 1k, so it's not exactly hard :-)19:03
qwerty12hehe :), thanks again :)19:03
bittin`have you heard the FLOSS Weekly Maemo interview?19:03
ccookeqwerty12: wait. Damnit. That's not *free*, that's total.19:04
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qwerty12Ah well, I guess "df -h" will have to do :). Thanks for looking though, I appreciate it :)19:05
ccookeno problem19:05
||cwdoes bluetooth DUN work on mer on the 770?19:07
johnx||cw, as long as bluetooth works (which it should) then BT DUN works. But Nokia's fancy wizard for pairing to a phone is closed source, so for now you'd have to set it up manually. this will change :)19:09
||cwI've done that on my ubuntu-Eee, procedure should be able the same right?19:10
johnxyup. should be very similar19:10
johnxmight need to install bluez-gnome19:10
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dexterkwhat is the different of Mer19:13
matanBack to df / - it is a busybox issue, so if you use df from coreutils, it has no problems with a single filesystem.19:13
dexterkanother os 2008?19:13
johnxhey Omegamoon :)19:13
Stskeepslo matan19:13
Omegamoonhi johnx19:14
johnxdexterk, Mer is hildon-desktop on top of a thin Ubuntu base, and is for the most part open source software19:14
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crashanddiejohnx: I luvz you19:14
johnxcrashanddie, I know :) still enjoying your videos?19:14
qwerty12matan, ah, thanks for clearing that up. Without resorting to dirty hacks (and I don't want to do that for a game), I guess attempts to install coreutils will be futile...19:14
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crashanddiejohnx: my videos?19:15
* timeless chuckles19:16
* timeless has something in Mer which really doesn't belong19:16
johnxcrashanddie, errr...hmmm...probably misremembering19:16
matancoreutils is only available from sdk repository, as it conflicts with busybox.19:16
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crashanddiejohnx: explain19:16
crashanddietimeless: explorer.exe ?19:17
johnxcrashanddie, I thought it was you asking about video encoding the other day, but now that I think about it, probably not. now why do you luvz me again?19:17
crashanddiejohnx: just cuz19:17
johnxah fair enough19:17
crashanddiejohnx: though if you doubt my affection I can turn it away in the blink of an eye19:18
Stskeepstimeless: microb? ;P19:18
johnxoh, I have no doubts about sincerity19:18
johnxthings like this happen wherever I go :) I was just looking for causality19:18
crashanddiehaving to document the installation procedure of software, by screenshotting every single step, over RDP isn't the fastest way of making progress, is it?19:19
crashanddiejohnx: YOU MEAN YOU HAVE OTHERS?19:19
johnxcrashanddie, you're not the only crashanddie19:19
Stskeepscrashanddie: better than a 41 minute lab test of a program where you use a screen recorder as primary data source.. and it dies when trying to save19:20
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crashanddielet me qualify that19:21
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crashanddieRDP session from Paris to the US over an SSH tunnel from London to Paris over a VPN connection from my place to the office over stolen wifi19:22
matanHello, Stskeeps. I saw you run Mer on the loox 720. How much of the hardware actually work?19:22
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crashanddieStskeeps: let's just say I understand your pain19:23
StsN801matan, usbnet, touchscreen, fbdev, sd i think so far19:24
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* timeless looks for someone w/ an n8x0 willing to test something (two reboots required)19:27
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ccooketimeless: possible. What's needed?19:28
timelessswitch your locale to Spanish(Latin America)19:28
timeless(requires a reboot19:28
matanStsN801: Does not sound like fun. I guess I'll not try it for now.19:28
StsN801is what i use19:29
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ccooketimeless: regional settings *and* device language?19:29
timelessdev language19:29
timelessi don't care about region19:29
StsN801matan, just what i tested so far19:29
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timelessafter it reboots, tap the main menu thing and look at the first item in the menu19:29
timelesstell me if it looks funny19:29
timelessuse the rest of the menu to decide19:29
timelessdon't switch back until we talk about it19:30
ccookerebooting now19:30
StsN801matan, check status what works19:30
ccooketimeless: looks fine here19:31
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timelessccooke: hrm19:31
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timelessone sec19:31
timelesswell, what do you see in the first item?19:31
timeless/msg me19:32
matanStsN801: I did not look at that page since I got the 770. Not much progress, though. I already saw the penguin on the loox screen in 2005.19:32
StsN801yeah, though its 2.6.26 ;)19:33
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timelessexactly like that?19:34
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StsN801lo zenvoid19:48
zenvoidHi. I'm reading
zenvoidhow can I upload to
zenvoidI need an account, I guess...19:50
StsN801hehe.. you ask me :) sec19:50
zenvoidI've been "softening" the system sounds a bit, to make wazd happy ;-) probably not perfect, but I think it is ok for the first release, they will be better with time19:53
lcukStskeeps, if i get a build of liqbase working in mer does that mean it will build and work on any of these devices you have been porting it to (ie omap3)19:53
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johnxlcuk, nope. :)19:54
johnxyou do things in a very 'special' way :)19:54
lcukme personally, or the actual porting process?19:54
johnxa lot of xservers for older devices are missing a proper xv implementation19:54
dexterkwhat can I do with Mer?19:55
lcukok, thats a reasonable answer19:55
dexterkcan I install a gcc in Mer?19:55
dexterkso few software in the application manager19:55
johnxdexterk, yes. lots of stuff from ubuntu should work no problem19:55
dexterkjohnx: how, can you show me a example19:55
dexterkif I want to install a gcc19:56
johnxuse apt-get in osso xterm to see more19:56
dexterkI  have xterm19:56
StsN801dexterk, just enable red pill, tools->options and show all packages19:56
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dexterkwhereis the red pill?19:56
lcukin the bathroom cabinet19:57
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, red-pill is
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StsN801dexterk, if you know ubuntu sudo apt-get install, it works same20:01
johnxmmm...apt-get install cup-noodle20:01
dexterkTools -> Application catalogue", then click "New", type "matrix" into the "Web Address" field, and click "Cancel"20:01
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dexterkbut I have no Cancel20:01
johnxhit the backwards pointing curly arrow hardware button :)20:02
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dexterka real problem,my Mer often broken up the wlan connection20:04
dexterkbut my os 2008 works with my wlan very fine20:05
johnxit's a problem with the way network manager interacts with the wireless drivers20:05
johnxkeep in mind this is a beta (or maybe an alpha?) :)20:05
dexterkI only want to have a mobile develop os ...20:06
dexterknot a Mer like this20:06
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johnxdexterk, well, we'd love any help you'd like to provide, or you might want to wait until it gets further20:06
StsN801dexterk, apt-get install sysklogd , reboot, and help us track down the issue:)20:07
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dexterkmaybe deblet better to me .? lol20:08
StsN801same issue there20:08
StsN801i made both.20:09
dexterk- -20:09
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johnxyou can disable network manager and setup your connection using /etc/network/interfaces20:09
johnxit seems to be a bit more stable that way20:09
dexterkgood idea20:09
StsN801johnx, i think issue is NM scanning20:09
StsN801i patched nm so20:10
johnxStsN801, me too. ah, you patched nm recently?20:10
dexterkmy issue is just once connected ok,and if broken after, it wont get connected again20:10
johnxI'll install syslogd and test20:10
StsN801in deblet, not mer20:10
dexterknow ,I need to go to bed, sysklogd tomorrow20:10
* dexterk away20:10
johnxdexterk, same her. that doesn't happen to me when I used /etc/networ/interfaces or set it up manually20:11
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StsN801zenvoid, try again, forgot to add your credentials20:15
StsN801add some comment after build pack=ver statement20:16
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sp3000oh deah20:17
sp3000dear even20:17
zenvoidStsN801: a comment?20:17
sp3000not only does notes eat half of "\n\n", it also eats the space off "\n "20:17
* sp3000 sobs20:17
zenvoidStsN801: should I upload the package again?20:20
Stskeepszenvoid: nop20:20
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Stskeepszenvoid: just 'build liberty-sounds-ui=version (blame stskeeps for not fixing merbuilder)".. jaiku doesnt like similar postings right after another20:21
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zenvoid:D it worked, now enjoy the new and free sound theme for your tablets20:22
Stskeepszenvoid: woo :)20:22
Stskeepsnow we just need sound:>20:22
johnxa2dp works great :>20:23
zenvoidIt also works in diablo20:23
johnxyup. worked in chinook too. I wrote a little thread :)20:23
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Stskeepszenvoid: just point to liberty-sounds-ui in the sprint overview (0.8) then and mark it 100% :)20:24
Stskeepswhat is the license, out of curiousity20:25
Stskeepsah, nm, i see :)20:25
zenvoidStskeeps: Creative Commons Attribution 3.0, but I can use any license that you prefer20:25
Stskeepsnah, this one should be good20:26
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zenvoidsome people seem to be offended by the WTFPL wording, so I placed them under CC-BY instead ;-)20:27
Stskeepshehe :>20:27
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qwerty12zenvoid, in the spirit of the WTFPL, I'd have told the whiners to fuck off :)20:28
Stskeepsand thanks for the effort :) hope you had fun doing them20:28
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zenvoidyes, was fun. I will improve them with time, but I'm happy with most sounds, I'm using them in diablo20:30
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johnxI want to find out who is responsible for making spam profitable and smack them20:31
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Stskeepsjohnx: the same people who decided what's on TV dumbing down the nation..20:31
johnxwhich nation?20:31
Stskeepsjohnx: any nation20:31
johnxRST38h, that's brilliant20:31
derfjohnx: Spam conversion rate are approximately 1 in 10,000.20:32
johnxStskeeps, I haven't seen much TV from Denmark. same dreak, different country?20:32
RST38hjohnx: end of an epoch, in a sense20:32
johnxRST38h, I'm just amused be the snark20:32
Stskeepsjohnx: i don't own a TV. i view series of my own selection20:32
johnxI considered CompUSA's liquidation more 'the end of an era' than circuit city's20:33
lcukderf, depends on what you are spamming20:35
RST38hjohnx: True20:36
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* RST38h wonders what kind of a country he will return to in March20:37
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Stskeepsyou're in russia these days or how was it?20:37
johnxRST38h, returning in March for good?20:37
RST38hnaah, 2 weeks20:38
RST38hSts: Moscow for now20:38
johnxah, You should stop by here on your way to the US :)20:38
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RST38hjohnx: Flying Aeroflot this time, after being screwed by Delta twice20:39
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johnxsounds fun. I saw a video like that20:39
RST38hjohnx: Direct flight, the only way to ruin it is to blow it up above Atlantic20:39
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* Stskeeps tries to communicate with BME20:42
Stskeepsit isn't so bloody difficult when there's a dummy BME :P20:43
lcuksuihkulokki, in public? and more to the point, where would we get a traffic cone from?20:43
johnxlcuk, I saw that video too20:43
crashanddieI have traffic cones20:44
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lcukahhh another loyal fan :) still gettin royalties from that one (and an uncomfortable feeling when i sit down)20:44
johnxlcuk, they aired it during the superbowl in Tuscon I think :)20:45
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crashanddieit's not so much that the feeling in uncomfortable20:45
crashanddierather that sometimes I swallow a chair20:45
lcukthats gonna lead to some odd glances in a meeting no doubt20:46
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lcukspeaking of losing things, ive lost my only usb mouse20:47
johnxmight have sat on it?20:47
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lcukpossible, but i left some cheese out for it last night but it didnt emerge20:48
* lcuk grabs the nipple instead20:48
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* Stskeeps ponders idly if his tablet died after talking to BME..20:52
johnxdied died or just 'died'20:52
crashanddiejohnx: where do you live again?20:52
Stskeepsjohnx: rebooted20:53
johnxcrashanddie, check my whois info. it's accurate :)20:53
crashanddiesod it, indeed20:53
crashanddiewtf are you in japan?20:53
crashanddieand where are you originally from?20:53
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johnxoriginally from CA, US by way of VA, US, by way of WA, US :)20:55
crashanddieI liked you20:56
crashanddieyou're from the wrong side of the pond20:56
johnxno I'm on the right side of the pond20:56
johnxfurther right than you even :D20:56
johnxbut what does that w in wtf stand for in this case?20:56
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johnxah, to see the world of course20:57
johnxthe wanderlust :)20:57
lcukalso, they were gonna deport him20:57
johnxor if you like 'It seemed like a good idea at the time.' :D20:57
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crashanddieso you lived in three different places in the US20:57
crashanddieand now you've been stuck in Japan for... how many years?20:58
crashanddieAnd you call that globetrotting?20:58
* lcuk bangs head on wall20:58
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timelesslcuk: i have a new and improved soft-wall20:59
timelessyou can try installing it :)20:59
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lcuksoft walls dont work20:59
lcuki need to feel the pain otherwise this network copy will take forever20:59
lcukcrashanddie, liqbase dev folder is ummmm 180mb right now..20:59
crashanddietwo options21:00
crashanddieeither you just went loopy21:00
crashanddieor you need to do some cleaning21:00
lcukfirst time ive noticed - its including lots of incremental backups21:00
johnxcrashanddie, nope. I call it impulsive :) I'll be heading back stateside in April21:00
lcukhow do i find the size of a folder21:00
crashanddiedu -sh /path/21:01
lcuk11.0M   libliqbase21:01
lcukmore reasonable21:01
lcukand that needs cleaning itself21:01
crashanddiejohnx: when are you coming to europe?21:01
lcukand contains a massive media section21:01
crashanddiejohnx: you know, the continent that actually has some history?21:01
johnxcrashanddie, when you find a country that lets me easily immigrate and find a job :P21:02
lcukahh you mean africa21:02
crashanddieand don't tell me japan has history, they write with pencils, therefore can not be trusted21:02
crashanddieafrica has history?21:02
johnxmeh. I'm fuzzy on any history that happened before the beginning of the Unix epoch21:02
crashanddieIn that case, yes, history tends to repeat itself... Death, murder, rape, famine, death, murder, rape, famine21:02
johnxcrashanddie, so you're suddenly talking about London?21:03
crashanddiejohnx: why don't you go check at your window, and see if there's no right-wing extremist militia marching down the street21:03
crashanddieisn't that basically the state of Japan these days?21:03
lcukcrashanddie, egypt is one of the most documented historical regions in the world :) mostly due to their insistance upon stone tablets and icons21:03
johnxcrashanddie, huh? extremist? militant? what now?21:04
crashanddielcuk: I always told you tablets had a future21:04
lcuk:) yeah21:04
lcukmaemo 0.00000000121:04
johnxcrashanddie, I think one of us might be confused :)21:04
johnxI hope it's you21:04
crashanddieNile Tablet21:04
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crashanddiejohnx: I have a few friends who had to leave the country (they been working there for about 5-10 years) because they were being harassed21:05
johnxharassed != extremist militia21:06
johnxwhat line of work were they in? and what area?21:06
crashanddiejohnx: one of them created a documentary about how the right-wing side is coming up pretty heavily, as there is no censorship, nor repercussion for people who praise second world war mass murderers as heroes21:06
crashanddiehang on, I'll try to find it...21:06
lcukand so it was said, king ramises the third (from finland of all places) took the scrolls of linus and ordered thousands of slaves to embed them into a pyramid shaped device.21:07
lcuk:D infact, sod that - scrolls of liquid21:07
AndrewFBlackmy network is driving me crasy21:08
ProteousAndrewFBlack complaining about his network driving him crazy is driving my crazy21:08
ProteousI might just go over there and fix it for him21:09
Proteousjust to get some peace21:09
AndrewFBlacklol, come on over tell me why my wife computer can't validate its idenity to my router when I have wpa2 protection on21:09
johnxcrashanddie, well, yeah the war is still a pretty touchy subject...21:09
gnutonHi there21:10
johnxhi gnuton21:11
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gnutonhey johnx! :D21:12
timelessanyone here use Chat/Internet call on their tablet?21:12
Stskeepswoo, i speak bmeish21:12
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Stskeepsme battery temperature is 296 kelvin21:13
qwerty12_N800Is this for hald-addon-bme?21:13
Stskeepsyeah, to replace it with a open version21:14
qwerty12_N800Whee, maybe my adv-power 'port' can actually be useful one day :)21:14
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crashanddiejohnx: found it :)
crashanddiejohnx: I hope your french is good :) Most (if not all) of it is dubbed21:22
johnxmy french is nonexistent21:23
crashanddiewell, you're american so you should be able to get into one of the many US army bases that are there21:24
crashanddiego ask the GIs what they think of it, they should have pretty good inside intel21:24
crashanddieI'd love to have feedback from that, btw21:24
johnxso ... what kind of intel am I supposed to be gathering? and what is your friend claiming about right-wing militias?21:25
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crashanddiewell that "a lot" of japanese people are sick of having about... what... 40k americans on their soil?21:25
johnxuh yes21:26
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johnxyou'd be sick of it too :D21:26
crashanddieThe fact that there is no limit at all on the freedom of expression means that ideas that were marginal are becoming more and more popular21:26
johnxand that idea is?21:26
RST38hjohnx: I think he has just watched Lelouch Of The Rebellion or something similar21:27
crashanddieNostalgia of imperial japan, quite intense nationalism, negationism21:28
RST38hjohnx: Japanese guerillas will attack US bases with huge mechas any time now21:28
johnxcrashanddie, I've never seen any of that21:28
johnxRST38h, who's to say they haven't already and are just covering things up with a cloaking field?21:28
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crashanddiejohnx: ever heard of Yuko Tojo?21:30
crashanddiebasically she's the granddaughter of Hideki Tojo?21:30
crashanddieJapanese Prime Minister during the second world war?21:30
johnxyeah, reading wikipedia now...21:31
johnx'she failed to be elected'21:31
johnxyou can find any conspiracy if you look hard enough21:31
crashanddiethere's an article about her? wow21:31
crashanddieI'm not talking about conspiracy21:32
RST38hjohnx: I am too far from the battlefield21:32
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crashanddieI'm not saying they're going to murder everyone and go mental21:32
johnxok, you're talking about a popular movement. In 2 years time I haven't seen anything of the sort. maybe it's not very popular?21:32
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crashanddieActually to start with I was asking if you ever felt anything of sorts21:33
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johnxnope. nothing at all21:33
RST38hSpeaking of Japanese uprising, I have got a story for you21:34
crashanddiefair enough21:34
johnxcrashanddie, I would assume something like this would be more of in the countryside, not in big cities. exposure breeds tolerance and all that21:34
crashanddieRST38h: what's this lelouch of the rebellion?21:34
RST38hcrash: Stupid kiddie anime21:35
RST38hcrash: About Japan suffering under the rule of British Empire (although it is quite clear whom they mean there)21:35
RST38hSorry that I have to resort to google cache21:35
crashanddieRST38h: hmm, never heard about it21:36
johnxcrashanddie, ah, a note about general crankiness RE: US military bases. I think most of the crankiness is actually about the way some military base residents choose to behave off-base. I can't speak for all of them of course, but I've run across some very unfortunate examples :/21:37
crashanddiejohnx: sadly I'm afraid that's the same all over the world21:37
johnxit's a much more painful contrast in a country that tends to value reserved behavior :|21:38
crashanddiejohnx: the "good guys" don't mess about, and you don't notice them. The arseholes you see and don't forget. Which means loads of [input country tag]-army bases have bad rep21:38
* johnx sighs21:38
RST38hcrash: you get the general trend right but you are wrong about details such as thresholds21:39
crashanddieI love Japan, I'd love to go there. I know Chinese (as a spoken language) is easier to learn than Japanese, but I think Japanese culture/history is just a lot more intriguing than any other country out there21:39
johnxRST38h, huh?21:39
RST38hcrash: In order to cause a local uprising, americans would have to kill or rape at least a few dozen locals at a time21:39
crashanddieRST38h: again, I never said there was going to be a local uprising21:40
* johnx tries to picture a local uprising of Japanese office workers...21:40
RST38hjohnx: will start with a demonstration21:40
RST38hjohnx: in order to make things worse, americans would have to shoot21:40
johnxI've never seen a demonstration here21:40
johnxa demonstration sounds awfully close to a confrontation21:41
johnxthose are best avoided21:41
RST38hjohnx: well, Koreans absolutely love demonstrations and they are crazy enough21:41
crashanddieI'm pretty sure with limited special effects you could make two or three disappear and appear somewhere else (to us europeans they all look alike)... Every GI would go "OH FUCK, IT'S HIRO NAKAMURA" and run away)21:41
RST38hjohnx: Does US have bases in .KR?21:41
johnxRST38h, yeah,21:41
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crashanddieanyway, I'm out21:42
crashanddietake care guys21:42
RST38hAnyways, as I said, in order to cause an uprising americans would have to do a few very specific acts in a specific sequence21:42
johnx'night crashanddie. come and visit in the next couple months and I'll show you around :)21:42
crashanddiejohnx: if you're ever in London, I'd love to buy you a (real) beer21:42
RST38hMore or less like they have done in Iraq21:42
johnxcrashanddie, deal :)21:42
crashanddiejohnx: where are you btw, in Japan?21:42
johnxmy whois is quite accurate. Just google Yokohama and you'll be close enough21:43
johnxI'll pick you up at the station :)21:43
crashanddiejohnx: The map is a bit weird:
johnxcrashanddie, google says "You're doing it wrong."21:44
johnxah, and from earlier, Japanese beer is actually quite good21:45
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crashanddieI'm sure it is ;)21:45
crashanddieanyway, enough nonsense, take care21:45
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johnx'night :D21:45
* Stskeeps yawns21:45
johnxRST38h, but if the US misbehaved in .kr who would make their cellphones?21:45
RST38hjohnx: .cn21:46
lcuknew liqbase (the one i put a screeny up from last night) kinda compiles for x8621:46
johnxwell, I should hope so ...21:46
RST38hkinda? =)21:46
RST38hwhat was that?21:49
johnxa cat21:49
lcuknahhh it happened yesterday21:49
RST38his he eatign the i key?21:49
johnxa very precise, persistent cat21:49
lcuktho then it ws "oiiiiiiiiiiiiiii"21:49
Stskeepsor kiddo21:49
RST38hwhat happens when he bites through the power cord? anyone checked?21:49
lcukprecise csame position on the keyboard21:50
johnxRST38h, same thing, but in real life instead :D21:50
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AndrewFBlacklol my cat it did yesterday also?21:52
radicIs there a way to get the packet-injection for the wlan-adapter working on the N800?21:53
bensonAndrewFBlack: Absolutely.21:53
lcukyes andres21:53
bensonoiiiiiiii... and so on.21:53
lcukyes andrew21:53
johnxradic, add it to the driver21:53
lcukit was "oiiiiiiiii" only 1 o21:54
radicjohnx: wich chip ist the N800 using?21:54
AndrewFBlacklol sorry about that21:54
AndrewFBlackshe is good she even renames files on my computer someties21:55
johnxradic, currently we're using the cx3110x driver, but there's a newer open sourced driver21:55
* johnx googles the name21:55
johnxthanks :)21:55
radicqwerty12_N800: supports that drive packetinjection?21:56
qwerty12_N800No idea how I remembered that, I usually rely on google suggest :)21:56
bensonAndrewFBlack: I have a cool keyboard; it has a "key Lock" key on it, that toggles all keyboard input off.21:56
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bensonOf course, I don't have a cat, so it's a nuisance, I only lock _myself_ out.21:57
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pupnikctrl+s still confuses some people wonderfully21:57
thopiekaris there a way to change the screen sensibility of the N8x0?21:57
qwerty12_N800radic, think so if used with a much newer kernel - it uses mac8001x (somth like that)21:57
lcuki think i made a booboo with the x86 liqbase, i let it compile with errors and now a render takes about 5 seconds per frame21:57
bensonqwerty12_N800: I don't think it does, but it should be easy to add; that's what I'd heard...21:58
lcuki believe i am trying to draw something like -923 lines21:58
AndrewFBlackwell this is my Eee pc I just for get to close it some times21:58
lcukits more likely your thumb when you pick it up21:58
bensonqwerty12_N800: But mac80211 (?) is backported by Nokia, so you wouldn't even need the newer kernel.21:58
lcukyou use your right hand dont you :P21:58
qwerty12_N800benson, not entirely sure about this myself, but I hear from solc that any driver that uses mac80211 gets the benefit of packet injection21:59
AndrewFBlackatleast she doesn't do it over and over all da lol21:59
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qwerty12_N800benson, really? Wonder why they want people to compile against linux-omap then :)22:00
bensonqwerty12_N800: k, just what I'd heard, and I'm not really knowledgable in that. :)22:00
radicach scheisse, der aschenbecher raucht...22:00
qwerty12_N800benson, me neither :)22:00
* Stskeeps tries to psychoanalyze BME22:00
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qwerty12_N800~curse dpkg & permissions22:01
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, dpkg & permissions !22:01
johnxTear 0.3 + Google Reader = <322:02
doc|homejohnx: tear 0.3? It's only 0.2.2 on garage.22:03
doc|homebuild it yourself?22:03
johnxdoc|home, nope. check the tear 0.3 thread on ITT22:03
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johnxhe's promising to do a proper release to garage and extras(-devel) when he's ready22:04
themacteplooks like MS is going to put NetBSD on ARM devices -
doc|homewhich forum?22:04
johnxhmm, good question22:04
RST38hNetBSD ran on ARM devices for a while22:04
bensondoc|home: Use the search, Luke.22:04
johnxdoc|home, googled:
qwerty12_N800Developers iirc22:05
pupnikRST38h: btw did you ever try your NES emu on 770?22:05
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doc|homebenson: hehe, yeah, figured a general idea might help though :)22:05
doc|homejohnx: thanks22:05
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qwerty12_N800X-Fade, do logs for packages built using binary-indep rule exist? I can see logs for stuff created in formido package with binary-arch but I'd like to know where i'd went wrong with formido-data & its binary-indep rule as the package I built in scratchbox installed data files to my memory card successfully :/22:08
johnxdoes the builder do a test install or something?22:09
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qwerty12_N800think it just produces debs and sends them on the way to -devel :)22:11
qwerty12_N800But i'm no expert - far from it.22:11
johnxneither am I. I start a couple of my own distro projects rather than upload to extras :D22:12
qwerty12_N800hehe :D22:12
qwerty12_N800God, I'm annoyed because i nearly started dancing when I saw it worked that one time :/22:13
johnxyeah, I know how that goes22:14
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johnxI thought I got xfbdev packaged up all nice once it went through the whole build then realized later that none of the ~20 patches had applied22:15
qwerty12_N800damn :(22:15
johnxbut it works now, so I'm happy enough22:15
johnxI still wonder why I end up with a Xephyr binary even with ./configure --disable-xephyr. I'm leaning towards somethin in debian/rules like rm $(DESTDIR)/usr/bin/Xephyr :)22:16
qwerty12_N800I did that with zenity after dh_install added the glade resource file to two packages. I know it's probably wrong but i'd know dpkg would whine when installing :)22:18
RST38hdisabling it probably means not using it22:18
* RST38h is restoring old ti85 emulator22:18
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johnxRST38h, not 'using' it?22:19
johnxI seek illumination o' great oracle :)22:19
GeneralAntilleslol . . . the first result for 'screen protectors maemo' on Google is ""22:20
* timeless rotfl22:20
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timelessgan: so... i'm fiarly close to done22:22
timelessi think i got the battery thing working to satisfy an american customer22:22
timelessanyone here know what in the world this comes from:22:22
timeless"Crop image before proceeding?"22:22
bensonOh, yes.22:23
bensonYou have a crop region selected, and tried to exit, open a different image, or some such.22:24
timelessCrop image before continuing?22:25
bensonNP, hit it yesterday when playing with aspect ratios. ;)22:25
bensonSounds good.22:25
timelessfwiw, that stuff is fixed in my latest set22:25
timelessit looks nice22:25
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johnxgoogle streetview has seen my parents' house more recently than I have O_o22:26
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timelesshow about  "Resetting Bluetooth devices<E2><80><A6>"22:27
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timeless"Resetting the game will close all opened levels. Continue anyway?"22:27
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* timeless frowns22:29
timelessok, help22:30
timelessif you open marbles22:30
timelessand actually play it22:30
timelessapp menu>settings>reset>reset game progress22:30
timelesswhich sounds better:22:33
timelessSettings>Reset>Reset game progress22:33
GeneralAntillesMissed this one:
timelessSettings>Reset>Game progress22:33
GeneralAntillesReset seems redundant to me22:34
GeneralAntillesArguably the "Reset" submenu is more at fault than "Reset game progress" but not much you can do about that.22:35
timelessright, so back to the original problem :)22:36
timelessoh wait22:36
* timeless is pretty sure this message is borked22:36
timelessso, Marbles is kinda cool22:37
timelessit has 4 chapters, and 8 levels per chapter22:37
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timelessif you trigger that menu item22:39
timelessit says:22:39
timelessResetting the game will close all opened22:39
timelesslevels. Continue anyway?22:39
bensonMaybe: "Resetting the game will reset the game. Continue?"22:40
timelessok, "anyway" bites the dust22:40
timelessClear all completed levels?22:41
timeless[OK] [Cancel]22:41
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bensonSounbds good.22:41
infobotbenson meant: Sounds good.22:43
timelessok, open Mahjong22:45
Proteoushow about just save all completed levels automaticly :P22:45
timelessproteous: it does...22:46
timelessthis is only for the stupid case where someone wants to start fomr scratch22:46
timelessanyway, open mahjong22:46
bensontimeless: got it22:46
timelessthere's a button in the bottom right corner22:46
timelessignore the fact that its size sucks22:46
timeless(not thumbable)22:46
* benson hits it just fine with his thumb.22:47
timelessis it bad for me to want "High Scores" instead?22:47
timelessor at least "Best Times"22:47
bensonWell... trouble is, they're not high, and they're not scores.22:47
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bensonBut it's tempting to roll with the idiom22:47
bensonBest Times is an improvement, imho.22:48
GeneralAntillesCan it be "Good Times", please? :D22:48
* timeless chuckles22:48
bensonBut nothing in Maemo seems to use title case, and I'm not sure why.22:48
timelessbenson: my locale does22:48
timelesshave you installed it yet?22:49
bensonNo, where do I get it?22:49
bensonOK, cool, if you're being consistent.22:49
timelessgimme a few mins to repack22:49
* johnx sleeps22:50
timelessbtw, would you normally write 'Game over' or 'Game Over'?22:51
* timeless is leaning toward the latter22:51
bensontimeless: on button-size, I do prefer the large size, I just don't find the small ones all that annoying unless I have gloves on.22:51
bensonGAME OVAR!22:51
bensonOr "Game Over"22:51
timelessit used to say22:51
timelessGame over22:51
timelessYou loose22:51
timelessmy favorite female insult22:51
timelessand we shipped it that way for iirc 3 products22:52
* timeless grumbles22:52
timelesshello world22:52
timelessok, next stupid question22:52
timelessblocks kinda sucks22:52
timelessit has two buttons when it's running22:52
timelessRestart and Pause|Exit22:52
* benson launches blocks...22:52
timelesscurrently in your device it says "Exit to menu"22:52
AndrewFBlackI'm trying to setup lxde to use with mer but FN button doesn't work of course I was wonder is there any way to setup shortcut where like Control Q will type a 1?22:53
timelessin the package i'm going to give you, it says "Pause"22:53
bensonYeah, I see.22:53
timelessbut technically if the game is over, it isn't "pause"22:53
bensonPause is much better.22:53
timelesscan i get away w/ that technicality?22:53
bensonHmmm... "Return to menu" would work, "exit" is just plain wrong.22:54
bensonI think you could get buy with Pause, but Menu, or return to menu, would be better.22:55
timelesswe'll try Menu22:55
* benson doesn't like lies, not even honest lies. ;)22:55
bensonOther options: back, or back to menu...22:56
timelesswould people object to the browser settings dialog having:22:59
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timeless"Privacy and Insecurity"22:59
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bensonNot I!22:59
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lcukam i wicked if i make liqbase depend on gcc?22:59
Proteousyou need to be spanked23:00
lcukawww but i could put an ide on the device :)23:00
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qwerty12_N800Getting gcc means sdk repo :)23:00
timelessis "Save form passwords" an understandable checkbox?23:00
lcukthanks qwerty12_N800 thats the decider23:01
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lcuki should just prefix every mad thought with "qwerty, can i ..."23:01
lcuk800*480 doesnt scale too well to 1024*76823:01
lcukit leaves borders at the edges23:01
timeless"Break the web"23:02
* timeless considers23:02
lcuk"let wife see pron signups"23:02
timelessok, how can i rewrite "Enable automatic redirection"23:02
timeless"Don't break the web"23:02
timeless"Don't show stupid dialog"23:03
timeless"Don't show stupid error"23:03
lcukto be honest, users have heard of redirection23:03
timelessto be honest none of these items should exist23:03
timelessmy favorite feature is that browser cache is 50% smaller than feed reader's23:03
lcukthey are options for the browser23:04
timeless1/2..4mb v. 1mb..8mb23:04
lcukdidnt you write it?23:04
timelessthe dialog?23:04
timelessno, i inherited it from a spec from 5-8 years ago23:04
timelessbased on features supported by some random opera mobile browser23:04
timelessi've been trying to get rid of most of these prefs since about day 123:04
lcukheh, theres a name for things like that in out place - its called "stuart code"23:04
timelesseven a couple of rewrites hasn't helped23:04
lcukstuart gave mel a run for his money23:05
timelesssuggestions welcome23:05
matanAndrewFBlack: What do you mean FN key does not work? It is supposed to work on xkb level, without hildon-input-method support.23:05
lcuktimeless, suggestion - leave these as they are?  we are gettin a new browser anyway if all these webkit jobbies work23:06
timelessit's kinda sad that a browser engineer rewrites all the strings for the entire platform23:07
timelessbut gives no ui love to the browser23:07
timelessbut the reason i never gave ui love, is that it isn't possible23:07
lcukagreed entirely23:07
lcuk:) a browser downloads its main ui23:07
qwerty12_N800matan, in Mer, the x-server doesn't support it - its keycode is out of the range supported by the xserver. i think there's an evdev & hal hack somewhere for mer to remap it but i'm unsure on the details myself :)23:08
bensonDon't worry bout it, Tear is gonna obsolete it anyhow. ;)23:08
timelessbenson: did the debs install?23:08
lcukbenson, how do you know something isnt gonna just jump out from nowhere23:08
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bensonStill going.23:08
timelesshow bad is your network?23:08
bensonlcuk: liqbrowser?23:09
bensontimeless: network's fine, CPU clog here.23:09
lcuknahhh not my cup of tea, but when the new liqbase is released its not out of the question for someone to make one23:09
lcuki dont know enough about webkit23:09
AndrewFBlackqwerty12_N800, if you find anything about that out let me know I'm use a on screen keyboar right now but it is resource heavy lol23:10
timelessAccepts cookies: [Always, Crash when given new cocokies, Never]23:10
infobottimeless meant: Accepts cookies: [Always, Crash when given new cookies, Never]23:10
timelessdo those options make sense?23:11
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timeless"Try to crash"23:11
timeless"Crash or nag me"23:12
* timeless settles on that last one23:12
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GeneralAntillesBundyo's gonna need more help if Tear's gonna obsolete MicroB. :P23:13
* GeneralAntilles wonders about MicroB trademark usage in Fremantle.23:13
timelessMicroB trademark?23:14
* timeless didn't think we got a trademark23:14
lcukGeneralAntilles, its ok, we will make sure bundyo gets a list of silly dialog messages to compete ;)23:14
GeneralAntillesWhether MicroB will include also include the UI since its open23:14
GeneralAntillesMozilla based browser for Maemo needs to die23:15
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Mozilla based browser for maemo needs to die23:15
matanqwerty12_N800: But you have source of the kernel, why not just replace KEY_FN with some unused value in the range in arch/arm/mach-omap2/board-rx44-keyboard.c (or board-n810-keyboard.c, as might be appropriate)?23:15
timelessoh that23:15
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timelessyeah um23:15
timelessdo we actually show that anywhere?23:15
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timelesswell yeah23:16
timelessi can rewrite that at any time23:16
timelessand if you want permission to rewrite the entire site, sign up, i'll grant it23:16
GeneralAntillesSomething I've been pondering for a while.23:17
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qwerty12_N800matan, I'm not Stskeeps nor johnx but I don't think they want people to reflash the kernel if it's going to be the same version, and as it's a pre-release I presume compatibility with Maemo (i.e having the key in Maemo still working) will be wanted currently23:18
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timeless"Close application and\n"23:19
timeless"pause active download?\n"23:19
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timelesscan anyone explain why that should say 'application' instead of 'Web' ?23:19
* Stskeeps continues talking to bme.23:20
bensonBecause "Web" is a horrible name for a browser, and makes you sound like Ted Stevens?23:20
timelesswell err23:20
timelessi could rename 'Web' to 'Browser' everywhere23:20
bensonIf one accepts "Web", then yes, it should say Web instead of Application.23:20
timelessnow would be a good time to do that23:20
timelessshould i?23:21
bensonBrowser's kind lousy too, but better than Web.23:21
bensons/d /d of /23:21
infobotbenson meant: Browser's kind of lousy too, but better than Web.23:21
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Stskeepsmaking BME get a SIGHUP triggers the wd23:23
Stskeepsas in, one of the sighups you get from socket connectiosn23:24
w00tooh, Stskeeps is writing an ircd again23:24
Stskeepsw00t: heh23:24
lbtI have a widget which initiates a data change which causes the parent to be deleted during the event handler. What's the Qt pattern for doing this; kinda like 'deleteLater()' but more 'handle_this_event_Later()'23:25
lbtoops - wrong channel :)23:25
w00trather :-P23:25
lbtwell, not *that* wrong :) it's for a Qt app on the n80023:25
lbtho Stskeeps23:26
Stskeeps'lo lbt, how goes it?23:26
lbtit goes well - got some free time now23:26
lbtrather a lot actually ;)23:26
lbtso qtshopper is born23:27
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lbtbut I see 'Mer'.... I've a lot to catch up on!23:27
Stskeepshehe, try browse through
lbthow is debnut?23:27
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Stskeepswell Mer is deblet's successor23:28
lbtthat was what I thought - cool23:28
Stskeepsit was realized deblet would just act like a desktop distribution23:28
Stskeepsin terms of power usage and such23:28
* timeless ponders ""23:28
timelessit's an interesting page23:28
timelessas long as you're dealing w/ a Symbian app23:28
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lbtStskeeps: does the maemo Qt run on it?23:29
Stskeepslbt: didn't compile it for it yet honestly23:29
qwerty12_N800woo! all I had to do was to chown 29999:0 as opposed to user:root :)23:30
* timeless cries23:30
* timeless screwed up contacts23:30
lbtOK - I'm finishing up porting from gtk. It's a lot faster and so much better documented!23:30
lbtplus #gtk has tumbleweed whilst #qt has helpful people :)23:30
lcuklbt, hows it run on device then, nice and slick?23:30
lbthey lcuk23:31
lbtyes - much nicer23:31
lcukhiya :)23:31
lbtbeen a while23:31
lcukyeah - knew you had your head into qt - after seeing your ++ code i wondered how long it would take23:31
keesjQt FTW23:32
timelessok, looking for final beta testers :)23:32
timelessanyone up for it?23:32
* lcuk mutters something about destruction of the c++ language, qt has its own dialect23:32
* keesj was just about to go into suspend 23:32
* benson cheers anything involving destruction of C++!23:33
lcuki have a love hate relationship with it - i want objects, but i dont want the brainfunk23:33
bensontimeless: in 5 minutes, I'm up.23:33
lbtqt is bootiful23:33
lcuki keep seriously considering getting cfront working23:33
lbttimeless: for...23:34
lcuklbt, liqbase has been split into 2 now - a core library, and a ui app.  the ui allows dynamic components to be added :)23:34
lcukits all coming to life quite nicely23:34
timelessbenson: ok, it's building packages now. i'll let you know when it's pushed23:34
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lcuklbt, have you got proper touchable widgets yet - when i looked at qt a few weeks ago on my x41 the qt designer still used mouse sensitive lists and things23:35
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lcukso i was sat there with my touchscreen having to aim for a little biddy tiny teeny scrollbar ;)23:36
lbtnah - this is pure Qt 4.323:36
lbt(or 4.4)23:36
timelessok, pushed23:36
lcukyeah - i know apps built in qt compile on multi platforms, but the paradigm isnt the same for touch23:36
* lcuk sees that more and more23:37
lbtI'm just playing in the app space for now - but I'm delighted that 'all' I needed to do was replace the ui, not the data or xml stuff23:37
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wazd`whew, I'm back23:38
lcukyeah that core was fine no matter what ui really23:38
lcukdamn! compiling for my x41 - ive got a bug in the blitter :'(23:38
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timelesswhat's the user/ section for translations?23:42
* benson goes for the beta...23:43
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GeneralAntillestimeless, user/system probably23:46
* timeless frowns23:46
* timeless thinks one of the packages will fail on mer23:46
timelessor if not fail, do something extremely stupid23:46
GeneralAntillesTranslations for a certain application will end up under that application's "category" eventually.23:47
* Jaffa nods23:47
RST38hwazd: Around?23:47
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wazdRST38h: yep23:48
timelessok, packaging problem23:49
timelesshow do i make Foo depend on Bar or Nothing23:49
timelessdo i need to make a no-bar package23:49
timelessand have Bar depend on the thing it wants to munge (Ba)23:49
timelessand have Nothing conflict with Ba23:49
timelessbecause right now... If you try to install on Mer, it should fail23:50
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qwerty12_N800Or's are done like '1package | alternatepackage'23:50
RST38hwazd: the "display" is going to be 256x128 pixels23:50
timelesssince i'm trying to munge tutorial which isn't part of Mer23:50
RST38hwazd: the whole thing will be 480x800, gonna make it look exactly like the real calculator23:50
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balorShould the N810 power on when connected to AC via the charger, but with no battery present?23:51
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Jaffatimeless: couldn't you have your "no-bar" package be one of Mer's system packages which aren't in Maemo?23:51
timelessjaffa: yeah23:51
timelessi think i can solve this by fixing my postinst23:51
wazdRST38h: got it23:51
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wazdRST38h: will be ready tomorow :)23:52
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timelessEstimated time remaing23:52
timeless18 hours, maximum23:52
timelessLess than one hour of use23:52
RST38hwazd: if you can fit it into ~ 720x400, do so by all means23:52
RST38hwazd: this is approximately how much window space we have got when not in full screen mode23:53
lcukRST38h, its less with the hildon borders23:53
RST38hlcuk: how much is it exactly?23:53
lcukbut native x11 has 720*400 allocated23:53
timeless"Tap 'Restart' to try again"23:53
timeless"Tap 'Restart' to play again"23:53
lcuk/#define HILDON_APPVIEW_HEIGHT          39623:53
lcuk/#define HILDON_APPVIEW_WIDTH           67223:53
wazdRST38h: so what's the size?)23:53
RST38hwazd: what lcuk says23:54
lcuki adjusted yesterday for it23:54
lcukand im not sure how fixed that is23:54
lcuki found that ages ago looking around for something else23:54
RST38hwazdL 672x396 will fit the window, 800x480 will fir the whole screen23:54
RST38hwazd: you decide if it fits 396x672 (does not have to)23:54
lcukrandomly cut off buttons until it fits23:55
wazdRST38h: well, what would you prefer?)23:55
lcukpeople wont miss a few number keys etc23:55
wazdRST38h: I can do 2 versions for example23:55
wazdRST38h: and you'll choose the right one)23:55
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* timeless frowns23:59
timelessanyone know what "internal memory" is?23:59

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