IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2009-02-03

ShadowJKThe CRT is fine 'til the phosphors become too dark :-)00:00
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fireunstop that00:01
bensonAndrewFBlack: Fall asleep on your keyboard?00:01
fireunupside down and angry?00:02
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StsN800r2d2rogers, redl same url try again00:06
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StsN800reboot, ifconfig wlan0, restart nm00:06
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r2d2rogersStsN800: rebooting00:10
r2d2rogersStsN800: FYI, top right part of 770 case is warm00:11
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AStormmaybe that guy just destroyed his NIT screen...00:13
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r2d2rogersStsN800: awesome, I see the options, trying to connect00:15
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r2d2rogersStsN800: had to modprobe before ifconfig wlan0 up...00:16
Mekcan I somehow remove a package from extras-devel, because that package is broken and an older version actually does work better?00:16
Mek(I know, I should test packages before uploading them... :) )00:16
r2d2rogersStsN800: nm-applet froze, batter pop and trying again.00:19
qwerty12_N800Mek, X-Fade may delete them, dunno but you can reupload old source package with epoched version number ( afaik00:21
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, re: solca's post about "open" devices, what's actually keeping us on 2.6.21?00:25
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, I feel like there's some misinformation there. . . .00:26
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han-solois there anyway to change the date/time values of the internal gps before the Maps application reads them?00:33
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lcukhan-solo, you wanna beat your kessle run record?00:40
lcukkessel *00:40
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han-solono, I'm tired of asking for new trials, I want to keep the date part of the info received from gps to "today"00:41
lcuki dont think there is - why do you wanna play with the timings from atomic clocks?00:41
lcukahhh thats a different thing00:41
lcukthats not the gps timings00:41
lcukthats the license lockout and entirely down to the maps publisher00:42
r2d2rogersStsN800: not much luck connecting, seems to drag on connection attempt, but without maxing the CPU00:42
r2d2rogerswill try another AP at home00:42
r2d2rogersor an open one tonight00:42
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han-sololuck, so there is no way to put a home brew application between the internal gps and the maps app?00:45
r2d2rogersStsN800: ahhha, tiw as waiting on the Keyring you've been griping about <G>00:46
r2d2rogersStsN800: more details later, probably tomrrow.00:47
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lardmanevening all00:47
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lcukhey lardster00:49
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lcukhows the snow00:49
lardmanonly time for a couple of handbrake turns00:49
freelikegnuStsN800: been connected wifi for over an hour now,00:49
lcukheh, last time i played inthe snow in my car i went sideways onto a morrisons flowerbed00:49
freelikegnuthogh I cant figure out how to get HIM up in FF00:50
lcukand i did 70mph whilst standing still00:50
GeneralAntilleshan-solo, the time doesn't come from the GPS.00:50
GeneralAntilleshan-solo, rather than trying to steal the service, why not just pay?00:50
lardmanI was a bit worried this evening trying to drive up hill on some quiet back roads, but only snow, no ice00:50
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lcukit will be like this tomorrow ;)00:51
lcukand the music will go through your head as you try to go home ;)00:52
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wazddudes, do you think that this banner size and place is enough to adore forecast-providers?
lardmanlcuk: I had to do that a few years back while backing out of my garage (which is on a slope at right angles to the way you drive in)00:53
lardmanrandom sliding and trying to avoid clonking car on garage entrace00:53
han-soloGeneral, I honestly don't think that it is worth the $129 (for 3 years)00:53
GeneralAntilleshan-solo, then don't use it.00:53
lcukhan-solo, then dont - use it when you need it?00:53
lcukits somethin i buy a monthly license for if i know im goin away00:54
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lardmanlcuk: I saw on ch4 this evening some stuff like that too - any 2wd cars were in all sorts of trouble, then a subaru impreza wrx just drove past happy as Larry :)00:54
wazd129 bucks for 3 years it's like 40 bucks a year = 3 bucks a month00:54
wazdfor god sake, are you that poor?)00:55
lcuk4wd have no problems getting going :)00:55
han-solois that hard to just answer to the technical question I asked? I'm not asking you to do it for me... If you don't know the answer, just say it and I'll try somewhere else00:55
lcukhan-solo, use the force.00:55
lcukdoesn't that come with tomtom00:55
wazdguys, answer me!
wazd-----> <-----00:55
wazdIf you were Foreca, would you be happy with that?00:56
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han-solosee ya all00:57
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lcukwazd, can you do that kind of customization with omweather?01:01
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wazdlcuk: that's not the problem right now01:02
lcukwhat is?01:02
wazdlcuk: the problem is to convince providers to give us info "legaly"01:02
lcukit looks good btw01:02
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wazdI want an exchange: their banner with link for xml source01:03
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wazdSo I want to write e-mails to different providers, explaining stuff, with an ask for xml source01:05
wazdLast "asking" attempt was failed :)01:06
lcukyou ever thought about going the inverted way?01:06
lcuklots of folks now have home weather stations01:06
lcuksome are bluetooth/wifi01:06
wazdlcuk: so?)01:07
lcukit would be nice to have that info with me whilst im at the computer instead of having to go downstairs to the wall to look at the readouts :)01:07
lcukand your display pretty much covers it :)01:08
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lcukits just an alternative datasource01:08
wazdlcuk: that's pretty hard request. Cause we haven't got any weather station in here :)01:09
wazdlcuk: So we can't even check it if it's possible to combine01:09
lcukby the same tune i hadnt heard of anyone with those car sensors that carmen uses either01:09
lcukthats the same idea01:10
GeneralAntillesIs that some lady or a whole team of mechanics?01:10
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lcuki dunno, i just read about it, thought "luke would love that", moved on01:11
GeneralAntilleslcuk, OBDII ports or readers? :P01:11
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wazdWell, he have lots of stuff to do for the OMW future, I'll add your request to my personal list, lcuk :)01:12
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lcukwazd, just an idea nothing more01:12
wazdCan't wait for new UI release to start work01:12
leandroalI'm trying to submit package to maemo-extras using dput, but dput is return "KeyError: 'files'"... what is the problem?01:12
* lcuk laughs01:12
* lcuk can see something working really really nicely01:12
lcuklardman :) i can detect clicks again now01:13
lardmanwarmed up enough that you can feel your fingers?01:14
lcukheh, no the mouse events are now tied into the cell tree.  i can click on widgets in the new liqbase core :)01:14
wazdOh, Ciroip is participating n97 widget contest aswell)01:15
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wazdWith his "flipclock"01:15
lcukrendering is pretty much there, dynamic widgets are there, instancing and scaling and font rendering is there01:15
lcukwazd, i will be entering a liqbase widget soon :)01:16
lcukeither that or i might just bring them all to life01:16
wazdThey have so many duplicated items)01:17
wazdNot only me was pissed bout their weird upload system)01:17
lcukim miffed at the locked aspect and size of them01:18
lcukits such a low resolution because thats what the n97 is01:18
lcukthey look awful all on the tablet01:18
lcukneeds a squarer aspect ;)01:18
lcuk9 fit on screen nicely01:18
lcukand are clickable and active01:18
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wazdCheck it out!01:19
lcukat those dimensions on the tablet it will be 2 colums, 8 rows01:19
lardmanhmm, where do I find openssh these days?01:20
wazdApple movie trailers01:20
wazdHe actually took my widget apart@)01:20
qwerty12_N800lardman, extras01:20
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wazdAnd another one!))01:21
GeneralAntilleslardman, really? I mean . . . REALLY?01:21
wazdWholy macarony))01:21
lcukwazd, download a load of them and make a tile to fit on the 800*480 screen and view on tablet01:21
lardmanGeneralAntilles: well I have Extras enabled and I can't seem to find it01:21
lardmanthat was why I asked, thought I might be going mad or something01:21
GeneralAntilleslardman, yes, you are. :P01:21
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GeneralAntilleswazd, most of these are pretty bad.01:22
wazd <---- thats mine01:23
wazd <------ #101:23
wazd <------ #201:23
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wazdCan I have an oscar in "Most cloned widget" nomination?)01:24
wazdbtw that contest arrangment system is a total crap01:26
* lardman curses and realises his n800 doesn't have the latest flash image01:26
wazdyou can't give direct link to the widget01:26
wazdmore than that, you can't give a link to the page, cause they are always changing01:27
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GeneralAntilleswazd, crappy website, too.01:27
GeneralAntillesRating reloads the page and takes you back to the top. . .01:27
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wazdlcuk: they looks resized :)01:28
lcuki have a widget which loads them in and shows all of them at any size, at the prescribed size on the tablet they dont look good01:28
lcukthey are but you get the idea - its adjusted for aspect slightly cos it gave each exactly half the screen width01:29
lcukit makes the screen too busy01:29
lcukits like a bad internet explorer advert01:29
wazdbtw, it's funny that nokia has standartized widget size01:29
lcuka wall of noise01:29
lcukthats for the ui on the phone01:30
lcukwatch the demos01:30
lcuksomething feels wrong about it though - those ideas work as the kind of adverts we ignore on the web01:30
lcukits not a widget01:30
wazdcause here I was talking bout it:
lcuknice, i layout my vb forms on a similar grid :)01:31
wazdnot exactly that stuff, but standards anyway)01:31
lcukand my report designer is the same01:31
lcuktracy plays a lot of sims01:32
lcukhave you seen the grid layout they use for the elements there01:32
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lardmanhmm, how do I search for closed bugs? I only seem to be able to see New ones in the bugtracker (looking at My Bugs section)01:33
lcuki dunno, post a link01:34
lardmanto what? bug tracker?01:35
lcukyeah you have it open01:35
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lardmanah, I twiddled a value in the url from __open__ to __closed__ and it's done what I wanted, sorry for the noise01:36
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GeneralAntilleslardman, use the real search.01:37
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GeneralAntilleslardman, the quick search is next to useless.01:37
lcukdamn!  i just realised, with liqbase in windowed mode, screenshots will not work by default!01:40
lcukso a desktop screenshot shows clear through01:40
lcukand a liqbase screenshot has no border01:40
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roopewazd: the foreca image looks good.01:42
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lardmanyeah, I searched for karma, and only got open bugs until I twiddled the url for that too01:42
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lcukroope, doesnt it just :) nice and clear and simple01:43
roopeAlthough the bottom strip of dates and numbers is a itsy bitsy small.01:43
roopeAt least on the target device screen.01:43
roopecompared to 50% of screen space being just empty.01:43
roopeI'm interesting in today and possibly tomorrow, so in that terms the sizing and the importance of some of the elements is perhaps a bit off.01:44
lcukwazd, theres a point, does hte sky color change?01:44
lcukor should it..01:44
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GeneralAntillesWhy do people insist on using fixed-width layouts for NO REASON AT ALL.01:45
GeneralAntilleslardman_, use this:
derfGeneralAntilles: Because it's easier.01:45
roopeWell, regarding text, there is an "optimum width" for a text column usually.01:45
roopea poorly designed non-fixed width layout fucks that up usually.01:46
lardman_GeneralAntilles: am half asleep, there's a field at the top to set the status you're looking for, ignore me01:46
derfroope: Yes. That would be the width of the window.01:46
lcukuser browsers should allow a floating customizable right margin for the user (like wordpad has - no wrap, to window, or to margin)01:46
roopederf: no. it's about 12 words per line. or about 35 ems.01:46
derfroope: Wrong.01:47
GeneralAntillesderf, not by a justifiable amount for most designs.01:47
lardman_night all01:47
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roopef a well-designed column of text, or about 12 words per line. Research shows that reading slows and retention rates fall as line length begins to exceed the ideal width, because the reader then needs to use the muscles of the eye and neck to track from the end of one line to the beginning of the next line.01:47
lcukgive the user the choice :) you are both right in the right environment01:47
roopeTo quote the relevant part.01:47
GeneralAntillesroope, in this case, it's a site that requires me to scroll on the tablet because the min-width is 102401:47
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GeneralAntillesWhy? No reason. It's entirely arbitrary.01:48
roopegeneralantilles: well, of course that's then badly designed.01:48
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lcukroope, but that does not take into account distanct from the screen01:48
lcuka user with good eyes and a screen further away still doesnt need to move his head01:48
GeneralAntillesroope, this is why we have max- and min-width.01:48
lcukthat is for book reading at a fixed "normal" reading distance01:48
roopeWell yes, that's basically a rule used in book typography.01:49
GeneralAntillesSet min-width to the size just before the page starts breaking and max to keep text lines from getting too long.01:49
lcukwhich incidentally is perfect for the tablets ;)01:49
derfroope: If I want the line shorter, I'll use smaller windows.01:49
derfThe key words in that sentence are "I".01:49
roopegeneralantilles: yes, i agree with that.01:49
GeneralAntillesI'm with derf, though, for the most part.01:49
roopeMost people don't bother to resize their windows, they keep them maximized.01:49
GeneralAntillesIf you're making your browser window so wide that you can't read text, that's not the web designers fault.01:49
derfroope: Most people are idiots.01:50
roopeIt's lazy design work, leaving the blame up to the user.01:50
roopederf: most people are lazy.01:50
lcukplease for the love of god dont turn this into a dpad discussion :P give the users the option01:50
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roopeI think there's a difference between lazy and being an idiot.01:50
roopeLazyness is a good principle, it saves mental energy.01:50
derfI agree. I don't think either of us is incorrect in our assessments, however.01:51
lcukroope, did you see the "wall of widgets" i rendered from the nokia competition01:51
lcukits like a whole page of web ads01:51
derfI don't "resize" my browser windows. I keep them at one size. That size is not fullscreen.01:51
GeneralAntillesA failure of Windows perhaps01:52
* GeneralAntilles frequently forgets exactly how godawful it is and exactly how many people use it.01:52
lcukwindows xp is a really good window manager01:52
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roopeI have a mac at work and windows at home. It's good to know what people are using.01:53
GeneralAntilles"Well I know who I'm not voting for" seems to have replaced useful discussion for me. <_<01:53
roopeAgain, reusing known metaphors when possible.01:53
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GeneralAntillesroope, no, mostly it just makes me depressed. :D01:53
lcukfor a keyboard mouse ui xp is second to none01:53
* benson[away] vomits at thought of XP being a good WM. :p01:53
GeneralAntilleslcuk, bullshit.01:53
GeneralAntilleslcuk, for a UI lcuk is experienced with, XP is second to none.01:54
roopeXP is rather good. I prefer it slightly over macosx.01:54
lcukits faster and smoother than anything else01:54
benson[away]I'm a recent wmii convert.01:54
GeneralAntilleslcuk, hardly, you're just more familiar with it than anything else.01:54
roopealthough now the mac app window logic is slowly growing on me.01:54
GeneralAntilleslcuk, I can apply the same logic to OS X.01:54
lcukGeneralAntilles, i have ubuntu on my laptop01:54
GeneralAntillesI'm much more productive in it than Windows.01:54
GeneralAntillesand that argument would have just as much validity. ;)01:54
lcukdont get me wrong, everytime i have an admin problem i think in the linux way now - it makes more sense01:54
GeneralAntillesGenerally speaking, familiarity is more important than anything else about the UI.01:55
lcukbut theres too many things which dont quite work in ubuntu01:55
lcukor kde01:55
GeneralAntilleslcuk, Ubuntu is a distribution01:55
GeneralAntillesNot a UI01:55
lcukmetacity then or whatever it is01:55
lcukwindows is also a distro ;)01:55
GeneralAntilleslcuk, you can't separate the Windows UI from the Windows "distro"01:56
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roopegeneralantilles: Well, there's Aero and then the classic.01:56
roopeThey're quite different.01:56
lcukno, but of all the window managers for mouse i have ever used, xp is the nicest :)01:56
benson[away]OK, maybe I'd grant that GNOME is as bad as XP; I haven't used KDE in ages.01:56
benson[away]But GNOME is pathetic.01:56
GeneralAntillesroope, lcuk, I still maintain that that has more to do with familiarity than anything else. :)01:57
GeneralAntilless/roope, //01:57
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: lcuk, I still maintain that that has more to do with familiarity than anything else. :)01:57
lcukpossible gen, the biggest killer is - i *HATE* using any of them with touch01:57
GeneralAntillesroope, "Ubuntu" can mean any number of window managers, the selection for "Windows" is much more limited.01:57
lcuki hate having to waste 90% of my screen01:57
GeneralAntilleslcuk, well, duh, they're not designed for that.01:58
roopegeneralantilles: well, that's true. but there is more than one. :)01:58
lcukno gen :) but what is01:58
GeneralAntilleslcuk, iPhone/iPod Touch01:58
GeneralAntilleslcuk, Maemo, for the most part.01:58
roopeFremantle will fix... plenty of it. Harmattan will fix just about everything else left.01:59
GeneralAntillesroope, let's hope. ;)02:01
lcuk:) liqbase runs nicely on my tablet.  i think i'll have my nervana before harmattan02:01
roopeWell, I tend to know this. ;)02:01
lcuk+sp ;)02:01
GeneralAntillesroope, it's also a matter of opinion.02:01
roopegeneralantilles: that's of course true. People won't agree with all the solutions we will have.02:01
GeneralAntillesI frequently don't see eye-to-eye with you on what makes a "good" UI.02:01
roopeThat's just a fact of life.02:01
roopeYes, that's true. It's good to argue about those things.02:01
roopeThere isn't any one good UI style and others being bad.02:01
GeneralAntillesHonestly, I'd settle for just having existing things actually work. <_<02:01
roopei wouldn't.02:01
roope(well, not that it would be bad, but)02:01
roopeThe present UI isn't good enough, by far.02:01
mavhca good UI is logical, discoverable, and efficient02:01
GeneralAntillesPlease, dear god, test the virtual input before you release this time around.02:01
GeneralAntillesI've suffered with more input bugs in Chinook and Diablo (90% of them regressions from Bora) than I care to think about.02:02
roopeThere were lots of bugs relating to input and the browser.02:02
roopeThey have their own widgets, so.02:03
GeneralAntillesYes, none of them fixed.02:03
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GeneralAntillesEven though they were filed almost on day 1 of Chinook.02:03
benson[away]Yes, that, and xterm.02:03
GeneralAntillesBut the return key on the finger keyboard only works about 20% of the time.02:03
timelessspeaking of xterm02:03
GeneralAntillesThe rest of the time it just closes it.02:03
timelessthe fremantle xterm won't let me make selections02:03
timelessinstead it does panning02:03
wazdwho said ui?)02:03
timelesswhich is um. pissing me off02:03
GeneralAntillestimeless, double-tap?02:04
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timelessstill triggers panning North02:04
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roopeI'd say it this way that Fremantle will be a lot closer to what I think of a good UI to be than the previous efforts.02:05
wazd <- ciroip's widget02:05
lcuk+1 roope02:06
GeneralAntilleslcuk, you haven't even seen it. :P02:06
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lcukno, but ive been listening to what is being said :)02:06
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roopeThere's virtue in saying too little instead of too much beforehand.02:07
GeneralAntillesI need to figure out who we need to talk to about h-a-m improvements since m-vo seems to no longer be on the case. :\02:08
roopeWhich is of course not very "open source" in some terms.02:08
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lcukroope, a cathederal model of open source helps in some regards02:09
lcukespecially when you are preparing things02:09
r0dentwhy, just look at fedora!02:09
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roopeI guess Pandora put in so my hard keys just to spite us.02:11
GeneralAntillesIt's a gaming device.02:13
* b-man nearly drives himself crazy trying to re-build all the packages from mer/deblet repo for ubuntu repo - but he is allmost 50% done :)02:13
GeneralAntillesYou need buttons for that.02:13
GeneralAntillesTouch screens don't suffice (especially not resistive ones).02:13
roopeWell. The biggest boost in mobile gaming over the past decade has come from the iPhone.02:14
roopeThere's been these mobile gaming devices now for a decade or so. Starting from nintendo gameboy. Or more than a decade.02:14
lcuknintendo ds beats iphone02:14
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lcukand their games are playable for longer02:15
lcukthey can have a wider variety02:15
lcukcos you can use the device in various "modes"02:15
lcuknot restricted really to tilt is everything (dont get me wrong, its amazingly intuitive for some things)02:16
* b-man likes the Sony PSP :)02:16
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wazdhow can you compare ds or psp with ithin02:17
wazdhave you ever played igame?02:17
roopenaturally there are differences with a gaming-only device compared to a device that does games too.02:17
GeneralAntillesYes, seriously, the DS kills the iPhone.02:17
roopeI'm personally much more interested in the latter, since the possible user base will be larger, and much more diverse.02:17
wazd10 minutes is "whoa, thats a long one!"02:17
GeneralAntillesI don't much care for the iPhone games.02:18
lcukgan, roope has a point - you dont but many do02:18
GeneralAntillesIt's difficult to play anything I'd be interested in playing with only accelerometers and a touchscreen.02:18
GeneralAntillesI don't see why hard buttons are so evil.02:19
lcukheh shh, the nintendo wii shows new types of games arrive02:19
roopeI think casual gaming is a very interesting trend.02:19
lcukbut even that is a multi function device ;)02:19
derfThe DS is $130.02:19
derfUsed ones are even cheaper.02:19
derfHow much does that iPhone cost again?02:19
lcukroope, and with nice fast everything we will have it02:19
roopeI think there's really a stigma associated with gaming devices (and pda's). Many people don't want to be seen out in the public with one.02:19
roopeThere isn't such a stigma with mobile phones.02:19
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lcukive always been shocked at the lack of touchable games for the tablets02:20
wazdanyway, if I won't need internet connection - I'd prefer psp to DS02:20
wazdcause it has larger screen :)02:20
roopelcuk: well, yes, that's volumes and the lack of proper development environments.02:20
roopeThe potential would be there.02:20
derfroope: I don't think it has anything to do with the device itself. Many people don't want to be seen playing games in public.02:21
* lcuk can see the potential infront of his eyes :()02:21
lcukderf, yeah right! on the bus you see loads02:21
lcukphones are wild for it02:21
roopederf: well, yes. partly depends on how you define a game. they don't want to be pushing buttons rapidly and staring at the screen intensively.02:22
lcukcaptive audience02:22
lcukgotta find something to do02:22
derflcuk: Yes. But those same people would be just as happy doing that with a DS.02:22
roope(which is true for nearly all mobile apps). Traditional games are heavily focused on pressing buttons lots of times and being ... reacting and being quick.02:22
lcukyes, they would02:22
lcukderf, but having totally new ways to play makes it interesting02:23
roopeMillions of non-gamers play Minesweeper or Solitaire on their Windows.02:23
derflcuk: I agree. That was the whole point of the Wii. The DS, too, for that matter. That's what Nintendo _does_.02:23
roopeAnd ... parents. People who you would think never to play anythign.02:23
lcukroope :) we will have a nice playground for them very soon02:23
roopeiPhone has some of those success stories already. developers making fairly decent sums of money.02:24
derfroope: I will refer you to
roopemonetization is also a part. if you can develop for the iPhone - and see it in the app. store for some $$$ - versus giving it out for free.02:24
roopethe app store is a really clever part of the puzzle. it makes it easy for developers to get money, they don't need to handle the sales themselvse.02:25
* lcuk can see a very viable open source app store principle working02:25
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* timeless grumbles02:25
timelessroope: windows are things like doors and ovis02:25
timelessyou can pin things to both02:25
roope... erm.02:25
timelessbut other than chopsticks, you don't play on them02:25
roopeYou kind of lost me right there. :)02:26
timelessyou abused a noun02:26
timelessstop doin ghtat02:26
infobottimeless meant: stop doing ghtat02:26
timelesss/n g/ng/02:26
infobottimeless meant: stop doinghtat02:26
* timeless gives up02:26
roopeoh. on their Windows systems.02:26
roopeSorry. :)02:27
b-man~ burn infobot02:29
* infobot pours gasoline all over infobot, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze02:29
b-manhehe - i could not rezist02:29
roopeI'm quite skeptical towards open source app. stores. (well, depending what they mean.) but anyway, I assume that the monetization would be somehow different.02:31
lcukroope, its just an idea ive got rolling around my head :)02:31
wazd~burn himself02:31
* infobot pours gasoline all over himself, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze02:31
wazdthat's better)02:32
b-mannice :02:32
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wazdk, gtg 2 sleep, c ya tomorrow :)02:40
wazdTomorrow I begin "wazd vs forecast-providers" case :)02:41
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RaymondLHi, pardon me for a silly question about Hildon Input method04:34
RaymondLIt seems that the IME is working as a plugin in HIM, So , is that possible that the UI and Engine of a specific input method been implemented in two plugins?04:35
RaymondLso that UI can be different for an engine, or UI can use different engines04:36
Mouseyso you wanna us IME as an HIM to the UI for the NIT?04:36
Mouseysorry, i just wanted to type that sentence, i don't really have anything constructive to say.. ^_^04:37
RaymondL:)  so what's NIT?04:37
MouseyNokia Internet Tablet04:38
Mouseyi realize your question wasn't necessarily hardware or platform specific. but i figured i'd throw it in there for completeness04:38
* Mousey is helpful!04:38
RaymondLOKay, well , yes, actuall I got little knowledge to HIM any information is welcome04:39
Mouseyanother place to find 411 on the IME plugin for HIM usage with the UI on the NIT, is ITT, if they don't have it, you might be SOL04:40
* Mousey is on a roll, and apologizes for his bountiful asshattery04:40
RaymondLso again, ITT ?04:42
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RaymondLWell, I guess I would like to describe my question in another way04:44
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RaymondLSay, If I want to implement an Virtual keyboard which can use diffirent CJK languages IME, is that possible? say VKB using several IME, Can they all be seperate plugins?04:46
RaymondLit seems to me that at one time only one plugin can be running and communicate between plugins is not easy?04:47
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derfRaymondL: Last I checked maemocjk used scim, which can use, e.g., anthy, skk, etc. as plugins, and switch between them.04:51
derfIndependently for each window.04:52
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RaymondLderf: Yes, I can see that scim is well designed to be able to separate panel, engine, frontend into different modules to be freely combined04:53
RaymondLderf: Well I am wondering , is that possible for hildon input method itself?04:53
derfI have no idea.04:54
derfMy point was maemocjk was using scim _as_ the HIM.04:54
RaymondLOK, Got it :) When can Nokia opensource it's HIM plugins :)04:57
derfAn excellent question. But maemocjk isn't technically theirs:
GeneralAntillesIs CJK still being maintained?04:58
GeneralAntillesThey really need to change the name.04:59
derfGeneralAntilles: No idea, but the primary author works for Nokia.04:59
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GeneralAntillesTrademark violation04:59
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RaymondLI think, even not for CJK, just for english, there still could be the same question with say word completion or something else. can one VKB work for different dictionary engine backend?05:02
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GeneralAntillesRaymondL, my recommendation is to take it to maemo-developers.
GeneralAntillesThere are more Nokians there.05:24
RaymondLGeneralAntilles: OK. Got it :)05:25
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* b-man has finally compiled/modified/uploaded allmost all of the base packages from the mer and deblet repo for the ubuntu N8x0 repository - woho!!05:33
* b-man runs apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade to try out the newly compiled packages05:34
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yigalis it possible to record a video using the internal camera, in my case on an n800?06:28
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yigalor is the video conferencing a closed source feature, or parts at least, and so the best that can be obtained at this point are photos via this camera?06:31
yigalor something entirely different to my desires or musings?06:32
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GeneralAntillesmplayer should be able to do it06:36
GeneralAntillesor hook into GStreamer directly06:36
GeneralAntillesThere are a number of guides if you do a little googling.06:37
yigalGeneralAntilles: oh this is good, thanks, sometimes it's nicer to take a video journal than writing something down06:37
yigalGeneralAntilles: I was getting bump internettablettalk threads, so now with the right keywords I think I'll be fine: v4l2 gstreamer etc.06:38
yigalyes, etc.06:39
yigalthank you06:39
yigaland there are all sorts of youtube evidence examples :)
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yigalalthough the specifics are a bit trying06:57
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slonopotamushi, everybody07:19
slonopotamuswho can explain why my gentoo doesn't get turned off after 4 minutes as bootmenu does?07:20
slonopotamusi didn't do anything with dsme, wd or whatever07:21
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yigalslonopotamus_: how is gentoo working on your nit?07:29
slonopotamus_yigal, that's a long story... i'm porting it :) yesterday i had great progress, i managed to boot into it directly. see for info. boot steps will be added soon.07:31
yigalslonopotamus_: awesome07:31
slonopotamus_yigal, they call it 'insane' :)07:32
slonopotamus_if anyone wrote me anything about wd, please repeat, i got disconnected07:33
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yigalhello I'm attempting to video tape myself using the internal video camera on the n800 using the gstreamer/v4l shell script provided in this blog, but am getting many errors, would someone try the script and tell me if they are succesful, pretty please :)07:43
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yigalah, I had to change the height,width, and framerate :) now it looks good08:08
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fauxmightslonopotamus: you're here!08:28
fauxmightMan 11 hr time diff will kill us08:28
slonopotamusnope, YOU are here08:28
slonopotamusi booted yesterday08:28
fauxmight! that's awesome08:29
slonopotamuswriting docs on this now08:29
fauxmightAny special techniques?08:29
fauxmightwill read.08:29
fauxmightI switched my main server over to a 64bit machine, it kinda stole all my free time in the last 2 weeks.08:29
slonopotamusnope. deblet/mer bootmenu + minor tweaks inside gentoo08:30
slonopotamusstock kernel08:30
slonopotamusno x, no wifi, no bt but hey, it boots and waits for password :) n800 here, can't do anything08:30
fauxmightvery impressive, still08:31
fauxmightI do love the linux-omap kernel for it's fixups, but I understand you trying to stay with stock.08:31
slonopotamusmer guys are planning to play with muru kernel08:31
fauxmightWhat's native language for you?08:31
fauxmightDamn. I'm right out. I don't speak anything with a cyrillic alphabet.08:32
slonopotamuswell, i don't use cyrillic here :)08:32
fauxmightI'm lucky your english is excellent. Don't know anybody else interested in gentoo 8x008:32
slonopotamusfar from excellent :) but many hours in irc do the thing08:33
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fauxmightMan, I've got to go to bed. Past midnight, here, but I'll be reading your docs in the morning.08:35
slonopotamusthey're not ready yet08:35
slonopotamusi'll email you08:35
fauxmightDeal. Have a good one.08:35
slonopotamussleep well :)08:37
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RST38hmoo all08:42
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Stskeepsmorning slonopotamus08:55
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slonopotamusStskeeps, explain me, why my gentoo doesn't get shutdown after 4 minutes as bootmenu does.08:59
Stskeepspossibly dsmetool --root-mounted09:00
slonopotamusyes, that was called by linuxrc09:01
slonopotamusbut what about precious wd that must be kicked each N seconds? why doesn't it turn it off?09:01
slonopotamus(by _your_ linuxrc :) )09:01
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timelE61isTs, wanna try my debs?09:02
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StskeepstimelE61i: sure, but may queue them based on my workloadd today09:04
Stskeepsslonopotamus: cos dsme is running09:04
slonopotamusStskeeps, and that's it? i thought i'll need to write some daemon that'll echo magic numbers into watchdog09:06
slonopotamusStskeeps, it would be great if you fixed FBMODE support in bootmenu.conf :) you'll find a patch on my gentoo page09:07
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timelessright, so09:16
timelesswho wants to be my guinea pig?09:16
timelesswhy does that call itself a draft?09:17
slonopotamusone more repository?09:18
slonopotamusor it is talking about extras?09:18
timelessit's witten from before it happened09:18
timelessbut it's a wiki09:18
slonopotamusthen it's outdated09:19
timelessxxx please fix it :)09:19
* timeless wonders where extras-devel is09:19
slonopotamustimeless, ?09:20
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timelesserr, rather 'how do i push to it'09:20
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yigalpoor server has to be rebooted09:43
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Stskeepsslonopotamus: yeah but fbmode modules take up space :P09:46
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Stskeepsright, beagleboard day09:46
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ScriptRipperStskeeps: you are also here :)09:55
Stskeepsi'm everywhere09:56
Stskeepsexcept in my bed right now09:56
* timeless sighs09:56
timelesswhere's a native english speaker when i need one? :)09:56
Stskeepstimeless: playing in the snow probably, if you mean en-GB09:56
ScriptRipperbtw, what langugage is "morn" ?09:57
timelessit's some broken form of en-GB09:57
timelessnot sure precisely which09:57
StskeepsScriptRipper: shorthand for morning, but danish would do it too :P09:57
AStorma short for "morning"09:57
timelessi think it should be written 'morn or morn'09:58
ScriptRippersounds like "moin", which is northern germany09:58
Stskeepsor southern denmark09:58
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ScriptRipperStskeeps: so you are from denmark?09:59
ScriptRipperme from germany...09:59
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* Stskeeps tries to get jaunty running on his beagleboard09:59
ScriptRipperStskeeps: still?10:00
ScriptRipperworks perfect here10:00
StskeepsScriptRipper: well, today is the first time i actually do it :)10:00
Stskeepsi had mojo going10:00
Stskeepswhich kernel package are you using?10:00
ScriptRipperI had installed ubuntu 8.04/mojo and also the jaunty prerelease.10:01
ScriptRipperand in fact angstrom10:01
slonopotamusStskeeps, i'm not suggesting adding fb modules. just fixing bootmenu.conf10:01
ScriptRipperdid you hear about my collegue, who managaged to get maemo sdk into our buildsystem?10:02
StskeepsScriptRipper: yeah, it sounds quite interesting, is it more sane than scratchbox? ;)10:02
ScriptRipperis seems that we do not at least suffer from any QEMU emulator errors yet.10:03
slonopotamusStskeeps, there is fbmode handling in (it calls fb_update_mode when ITEM_FBMODE is set) but bootmenu.conf doesn't properly use ITEM_FBMODE from /etc/bootmenu.d items10:03
ScriptRipperbut it took my quite a lot of work with QEMU people to achieve this10:03
Stskeepsyeah, if it is with the eabi patches and such it borders on sane10:03
Stskeepsslonopotamus: ah - feel free to submit a patch :)10:03
ScriptRipperwe can handle armv4t (OABI), armv5el (EABI, w/o vfp) and up to armv7el (EABI, w/o vfp) working correctly.10:04
ScriptRipperi have also tested this with all available  linux distros for arm i could grab....10:05
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ScriptRipperincluding maemo.....10:05
StskeepsScriptRipper: *nod* sounds very interesting.. is it "just" a webservice or is it possible to "take home"?10:05
* timeless is confused10:05
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timelessdo i need to fill in in order to upload to extras?10:05
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Stskeepstimeless: correct, then x-fade approves10:05
ScriptRipperStskeeps: you mean OBS?10:05
StskeepsScriptRipper: yeah10:06
ScriptRipperOBS is a public service with a webui (but also command line) and the code itself is Opensource10:06
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ScriptRipperwe also provide prepackaged pkgs to install on the linux distro of your whish10:07
ScriptRipper.deb as well as .rpm based.10:07
timeless(note the original word was both misspelled and less than ideal)10:07
ScriptRippertimeless: correct, did not have my coffee yet10:07
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slonopotamusStskeeps, or you want me to post it to garage tracker?10:09
timelessMer bugs go to bugs.maemo.org10:09
timelessgarage tracker is dead10:09
* timeless goes to find a password10:09
Stskeepstimeless: not a mer bug in this case :)10:09
Stskeepsslonopotamus: nah, i'll just patch it10:09
timelesssts: what's teh bug in?10:10
infobottimeless meant: sts: what's the bug in?10:10
slonopotamustimeless, bootmenu10:10
* timeless goes to create a component for
timelessstskeeps: i can create a thing for too10:11
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Stskeepstimeless: mm, bootmenu is fanoush's project really, not in a position to make any kind of decisions in it10:12
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* Stskeeps notes that booted flawlessly10:16
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slonopotamusStskeeps, what booted flaslessly?10:17
slonopotamusStskeeps, with patch you mean?10:18
Stskeepsslonopotamus: mer on beagle10:18
slonopotamusStskeeps, oh10:18
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Stskeepsadded to svn10:22
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timelessstskeeps: where do bugs in Network manager go?10:26
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* timeless frowns10:29
X-Fadetimeless: I've sent you an invitation again..10:30
qwerty12timeless, btw, dunno if you noticed but if you press the refresh button in rss reader; it shows the msgid instead of text10:30
timelessqwerty12: i might have fixed that10:30
Stskeepstimeless: ubuntu i think :P but cx3110x is wonky10:31
timelessUnable to install FindMine [ Close ]10:32
timelesscan someone w/ Mer 0.7 try installing findmine?10:33
Stskeepswhat on earth is findmine? :P10:33
JaffaA version of Minesweeper?10:34
aquatixminesweeper game? </wildguess>10:34
Stskeepsand give me a log of what HAM says (red pill mode?)10:34
Stskeeps(tools->log i think)10:34
timelessthe log is useless10:34
timelessit says configure failed10:35
timelesssubprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 110:35
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RST38hall right. morning.10:35
qwerty12morning RST38h10:36
aquatixhey all10:36
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Stskeepsokay, without very little modification of Mer image:
Stskeeps(crappy picture)10:37
timeless fwiw :)10:37
slonopotamuswanna crappy picture of gentoo on n800? :)10:37
Stskeepsslonopotamus: sure :P10:37
Stskeepstimeless: hehe, cute10:37
AStormhey, only 8h to build gcc ;P10:38
timelesssts: there are 3 icons in it10:38
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timelesssts: my guess is maemo-select-menu-location is misbehaving10:38
JaffaStskeeps: cool10:40
Stskeepstimeless: yes, i was noticing the same yesterday10:40
StskeepsJaffa: now add clutter on top and we have harmattan.. ;P10:41
Jaffatimeless: (what Stskeeps said yesterday)10:41
JaffaStskeeps: :)10:41
qwerty12Incidentally, maemo-select-menu-location from Mer works when run via a chroot from Maemo...10:41
JaffaAnyone straced it yet?10:41
Stskeepsqwerty12: maybe dbus permissions or something10:41
timelesseww, i need a gpg key too?10:42
Jaffatimeless: no, see
JaffaNo GPG key needed10:42
timelessjaffa: is complaining10:42
X-Fadetimeless: Well technically not anymore, but we need to update the garage page..10:42
timelessError: please copy your public PGP or GPG key in the "Your public GPG or PGP key" field below10:42
Jaffatimeless: type some crap and pester X-Fade about poor UIs ;-)10:43
* Jaffa dunnos if either of those will work10:43
X-FadeJaffa: don't think so.10:43
timelessError: the key you provided is not a valid PGP or GPG public key10:43
X-Fadetimeless: I can bypass that for you, if you want..10:44
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timelessthat'd be nice10:45
timelessthis is getting very painful :)10:45
timelessi mean, i can create products in bugzilla faster10:45
Stskeepsrzr_: i've put up 770 instructions btw :)10:45
X-Fadetimeless: Set your ssh key there..10:45
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x29ais there a way with plain standard maemo to stream video/sound with the N810? somehow the skype which came along doesnt support the cam10:48
X-Fadetimeless: Ok, that should be all..10:48
slonopotamusAStorm, first they laugh at you... :)10:48
timelessyeah, except for actually pushing something10:49
AStormslonopotamus: :)10:49
* timeless sighs10:49
x29ai remember a video on youtube where someone demonstrates videochat10:49
AStormslonopotamus: I'd actually rather build it on a faster machine10:50
timelessqwerty: did you try updating?10:50
qwerty12timeless, there's an update?10:50
slonopotamusAStorm, how often do you build gcc?10:50
timelessi updated today10:50
timelessthere are even some new pacakges10:50
timelessoh, the microb package is dead10:50
qwerty12Lemme replace Mer 0.6 first with 0.7 :)10:50
timelesssince it never was going to have content10:50
AStormslonopotamus: not too often10:50
X-Fadex29a: Gizmo supports video chat..10:51
AStormbut I do sometimes build firefox10:51
timelessoh, this should install into mer too :)10:51
slonopotamusAStorm, it build while i was asleep. i didn't care if it was 2 or 8 hours because i sleep 10 :)10:51
timelessyou still have to hack the start script to use it10:51
timelessbut it's only one line :)10:51
x29aX-Fade: i guess i need an account and stuff for that10:51
* timeless frowns10:51
infobotslonopotamus meant: AStorm, it built while i was asleep. i didn't care if it was 2 or 8 hours because i sleep 10 :)10:51
qwerty12timeless, Ooh, great, I could do with strings :)10:51
timelesswho owns that start script?10:51
X-Fadex29a: Yep.10:51
AStorminfobot: you're an annoying little git10:51
X-Fadex29a: Or you can use gstreamer from the command line, but that is a bit hardcore..10:51
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x29aX-Fade: oh, sounds ok10:52
timelesssts: is /usr/bin/start-hildon yours?10:52
Stskeepstimeless: mostly johnx's10:52
x29aX-Fade: whats the camdevice?10:52
X-Fadex29a: The camera is just a V4L2 device..10:52
x29aah great10:52
timelessjohnx: ping10:52
Stskeepstimeless: it's on
X-Fadex29a: Which is pretty easy to access in code or through gstreamer.10:52
timelesssts: if i gave you a patch could you play w/ it?10:53
Stskeepstimeless: possibly10:53
x29aX-Fade: i will try that, too bad the talk is in 17min already, gotta rush10:53
Stskeepsdepends on my work load really10:53
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X-Fadex29a: A little bit more info here:
* RST38h wonders if there will be a lighter camera API10:55
X-FadeRST38h: I think so. As part of the multimedia framework perhaps?10:56
RST38hX-Fade: Ah, abandon all hope10:56
RST38hX-Fade: Quim has shown a draft for the multimedia framework API a while ago - it is basically an API for writing plugins for the media player10:57
* timeless reboots mer10:57
timelesssts: ok, patch written10:57
X-FadeRST38h: Well, mafw is now released in the pre-alpha, so you could check the code :)10:57
timelessbtw, does mer actually support multiple users?10:58
timelessi.e. is there some way for me to "log into the desktop" and "log out"?10:58
RST38hX-Fade: In other words, it is even more high level and does not have to do with actual audio/video hw10:58
Stskeepstimeless: so far we haven't restricted it, but there's an autologin thing in auto-startx10:58
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timelesssts: it'd help this specific thing quite a bit10:58
timelessuh oh10:58
timelessi think i broke my computer10:58
timelessall i have is a black screen10:58
timelessoh, no, it's just slow :)10:58
RST38hX-Fade: Already checked the document, there is nothing there that would make me look at the code10:59
X-FadeRST38h: But I don't think the camera api has been added to the alpha yet.10:59
* RST38h kinda hoped for a simple open/read/close API10:59
X-FadeRST38h: There are still more things to come, I guess.11:00
RST38hX-Fade: As I said, MAFW is irrelevant to this task, it is a system of media player plugins11:00
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X-FadeRST38h: Yes, but so far it doesn't seem like any parts that control new hardware have been added to the SDK.11:01
Stskeepstimeless: ta, how does maemo do it btw?11:01
timelesscan i plead the fifth?11:01
RST38hX-Fade: Even if they do get added, MAFW will continue being a system of media player plugins11:01
Stskeepstimeless: yeah, sure11:01
X-FadeRST38h: I'm not talking about mafw.11:01
RST38hX-Fade: Ah, you mean Fremantle in general...11:02
X-FadeRST38h: Yes, the SDK isn't feature complete yet.11:02
RST38hX-Fade: I am pretty sure it wil use GStreamer again, I think somebody stated it when discussing MAFW11:02
RST38hX-Fade: And you have just seen an example of a video capture code with GStreamer :)11:03
Stskeepstimeless: En_gb, btw?11:03
Stskeepsand not en_gb?11:03
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Stskeeps(yes, i do review patches occasionally :P)11:04
timelessmy system takes the current-locale path :)11:04
timelessi like having strings :)11:04
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timelessthe string should match what i removed (-export LANG=en_GB.utf8)11:05
timelessprobably a more proper patch would have11:05
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timelessand then use it in those other two places11:06
timelessso that if someone has a different default lang...11:06
slonopotamusStskeeps, does initfs do anything useful? :) have you tried booting into rootfs directly?11:06
Stskeepsslonopotamus: yes, we're working on that at the moment11:06
timelessthere's a package called hildon-initscripts11:06
Stskeepstimeless: don't get me started on hildon-initscripts..11:07
timelessis that for scratchbox?11:07
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Stskeepsno, but it's the init.d clusterfuck of booting hildon things :) we're putting hildon into what it -should- be, a session script11:07
timelessit had a reference to LANG11:08
timelessbut that wasn't interesting11:08
Stskeeps(and it seems to be in fremantle better)11:08
timelessosso-af-startup looks promising11:08
Stskeeps <- applied it as such11:09
RST38hMeanwhile: Next Sidekick LX 2009/Blade, from Danger (acquired by Microsoft early in 2008), is going to run NetBSD as their operating system, causing Microsoft's recruiters to look for NetBSD developers.11:09
StskeepsRST38h: that one is horribly weird11:09
timelesslooks good11:09
RST38hSts: Poor MS just can't get rest lately11:10
RST38hSts: First the Flight Simulator cluster fuck, now this11:10
timelessooh, osso-af-settings11:10
timelessthat sounds interesting11:10
Stskeepstimeless: sending version to builder11:10
timelessoh, nope11:11
* timeless shrugs11:11
* timeless doesn't really want to figure this out11:11
timelessask andre__11:11
timelessit's specified11:11
timelesshe can even look at bugs i've filed internally recently to find the spec that's likely to talk about it :)11:11
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Stskeepstimeless: i'm totally expecting the part on af-settings to be a page containing picture, but that's just me11:11
Stskeepstimeless: 0.2-12 in repository11:12
* timeless wonders how to update it11:13
timelesswould application manager offer me an "Operating System" update? :)11:13
Stskeepsi have no clue :)11:14
Stskeepsapt-get update; apt-get install hildon-desktop-env could prolly do that trick too11:14
timeless49 upgraded packages11:14
timelessis updating the xserver safe?11:14
timelessoh well11:15
timelesslet's find out :)11:15
timelessFEtched 15.1MB in 30s (491kB/s)11:15
* timeless wonders if bluetooth actually works here11:16
timeless(it doesn't work in windows)11:16
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Stskeepsin the VM? :P11:16
timelessthat'd be *really* amusing11:16
Stskeepsno clue11:16
timelessright, so um11:17
Stskeepsqwerty12: stuck at home in the snow still?11:17
timelesswhat was i supposed to file bugs about?11:17
timelessqwerty: how do things look?11:17
qwerty12Stskeeps, yeah :). Although it's all going a bit icy now :/11:17
Stskeepsqwerty12: can you verify init=/sbin/tablet-init?11:17
qwerty12timeless, all white :)11:17
Stskeeps(i have time to tinker with it today so)11:17
qwerty12Stskeeps, go on then11:18
* qwerty12 apt-get sources kernel-source-diablo again11:18
timelesswhere do bugs on the 'Panels' control panel applet go?11:19
Stskeepstimeless: the double application menu? :)11:19
Stskeepsknown issue11:19
timeless8. organize button doesn't fit (diablo, fremantle)11:20
Stskeepsoh, panels11:20
Stskeepsthat'd be your employer i guess11:20
timelessactually, i have two bugs for panels11:20
timelessoh sure11:20
timelessor roope :)11:20
timelessi remember complaining about it years ago11:20
* timeless should have filed a bug11:20
timelessmy favorite stupid error message:11:20
timeless"Two plug-ins required"11:20
Stskeepstimeless: you on the top-10 of reporters of internal bugs? :P11:21
timelesscounting or excluding andre's proxies?11:21
timelessand with or without cloning?11:21
timeless(we like to inflate our bug count)11:21
timelessi'd expect that amongst engineers i'm in the top 1011:21
timelessamongst qa (or people paid to file bad bugs), i dunno :)11:22
timelessi'd need to know my password11:22
Stskeepswhat password? :P11:29
slonopotamusi need to know your password too.11:30
timelessfor the bug database11:31
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timelessthe first if has what looks like a tab11:35
timelessthe next ifs uses 2 spaces11:35
timelessoh, and the code mixes if [] and if test11:36
Stskeepstrue, but it works :P11:36
timelessand "x$FOO" = "x" and -z11:36
timelessoh well,11:36
* Myrtti goes to wash her eyes...11:36
qwerty12Stskeeps, what's default ip for telnet in rescue mode?11:36
Stskeepsqwerty12: 2.211:36
Stskeepstimeless: but cleanup patches are welcome11:36
MyrttiOCAR: "the first if has what looks like a crab"11:36
timelessnah, i'm lazy :)11:37
qwerty12Myrtti, :)11:37
* timeless kicks chrome11:37
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Myrttiqwerty12: hehe... was just misreading stuff11:38
slonopotamustell me the magic of "x$FOO"11:38
slonopotamuswhy this ugly thing is needed?11:38
timelesssts: so, install my locale and try it out?11:38
timelessno need to stare at ugly_strings_like_this11:39
RST38hWhy? To get you mad and drive you toward eventual insanity of course!11:39
timelessi can't install battle-jeweled11:39
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timelessit wants hildon-games-wrapper0, libsdl1.2, osso-games-startup11:39
qwerty12Stskeeps, btw, my wifi messed up on 0.7. I did chroot before and did a passwd root...11:40
Stskeepstimeless: just got a wifi card in the door so playing with that now :P11:40
Stskeepsqwerty12: hmm.11:40
Stskeepsqwerty12: your wifi is weird, corrupted CAL?11:40
Jaffaslonopotamus: historically, some shells treated "$FOO" as "" if FOO was unset, and then treated "" as no arg. So without the "x" prefix, you could end up with something syntactically invalid11:40
qwerty12Stskeeps, I'm pretty sure that I get ETSI as my band in maemo...11:41
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slonopotamusJaffa, then how one can make an empty string in such shell?11:41
Stskeepsqwerty12: did it mess up from early beginning?11:42
Jaffaslonopotamus: I don't remember11:43
qwerty12Stskeeps, yep, soon as I booted. Now that I've got g_ether inserted and a usb cable, nm shows a auto ethernet device that refuses to work11:43
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Stskeepsqwerty12: k - NM shouldn't touch your usb at all when using the rescue menu and interfaces file11:43
timelessUnable to install battlegweled11:45
timelessApplication packages missing: foo (...)11:45
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timeless                              bar11:45
timeless                              baz11:45
Stskeepstimeless: we don't have -games-wrapper ported yet :)11:46
timeless-^ current junk - v proposed; suggestions wanted -11:46
timelessCan't install battlegweled;11:46
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timelessthe following required packages aren't available: foo (...)11:47
timeless                                                  bar11:47
timeless                                                  baz11:47
* timeless has no idea how it figures out the indentation11:47
qwerty12Stskeeps, rebuilding. "CONFIG_CMDLINE="root=1f04 rootfstype=jffs2 init=/sbin/tablet-init ro console=tty0 console=ttyMTD5"11:48
Stskeepsqwerty12: alright, thanks :)11:48
timelessso um11:50
timelessare there *any* games i can play?11:50
* timeless isntalls metrinet11:51
qwerty12Play tetris in aptitude :)11:52
MyrttiI thought it was minefield11:53
qwerty12Haha, you're right, shows how much I use it :P11:54
* timeless frowns11:54
timeless"All applications already installed"11:54
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slonopotamusall your bases are belong to us :)11:54
timeless"Your system already has these applications"11:55
timelesssound better?11:55
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qwerty12I think so11:55
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timeless"Operation in progress"11:58
* timeless sighs11:58
timelesswhat the heck does that mean?11:58
Stskeepsit's performing surgery11:59
timeless=> "Please wait":11:59
Stskeepsqwerty12: and the CMDLINE isn't in CAL, is it?12:00
qwerty12Stskeeps, can't be. Remember solca's kernels used to boot from mmc directly12:01
timelessok, which is better:12:01
timeless"mytube successfully installed"12:01
timeless"mytube installed"12:01
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timeless"installed mytube"12:01
timeless"Installed mytube"12:01
qwerty12The first one12:01
timelessdo you expect it to say mytube damagedly installed?12:02
Jaffa"Successfully" is superfluous12:02
qwerty12It's nice to know that application manager hasn't messed up on you from time to time12:02
JaffaYou expect it to tell you when it has?12:02
timelessjaffa: right. so pick one :)12:02
* timeless rotfl12:02
qwerty12Jaffa, yes. it reminds me that something made by nokia actually can work.12:03
Jaffa"mytube installed" - it should be using the display name, anyway, so typically that might be something like "Maemo Mapper installed"12:03
timelessmytube is what it gave me12:03
timelessi really installed mytube12:03
JaffaAye, I bet it doesn't have a display name :-(12:03
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timelessif mytube is stupid, file a bug12:04
qwerty12Stskeeps, - "[sbox-DIABLO_ARMEL: ~/99x/kernel-source-diablo-2.6.21/kernel-source] > strings arch/arm/boot/Image | grep tablet -root=1f04 rootfstype=jffs2 init=/sbin/tablet-init ro console=tty0 console=ttyMTD5"12:09
* RST38h laughes maniacally12:09
Stskeepsqwerty12: thanks12:10
RST38h"Nokia definitely won't be number one manufacturer in 2007, though it could be Motorola or perhaps Handspring"12:10
qwerty12"    * BREW will become the dominant phone development environment by 2007-2010" - bollocks12:10
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rockyddhi, I need the file 'install', which package it located?12:13
* timeless sighs12:13
timelesscoreutils: /usr/bin/install12:14
rockyddshould I install coreutils? it's conflict with busybox12:14
rockyddremove busybox?12:14
rockyddthen how?12:15
timelessthis is a scratchbox?12:15
RST38hqwerty: hey, BREW was good12:16
rockyddI don't know, how to check12:16
RST38hqwerty: Between BREW and MIDP...12:16
timelessmidp "won", right?12:16
Stskeepsqwerty12: i think it might work cos it doesn't seem to load now :>12:17
qwerty12Sounds good >.<12:17
Stskeepsyes, is a good thing :>12:17
qwerty12RST38h, but hell no on it becoming dominant over Symbian & MIDP :)12:18
qwerty12I've never actually seen one single BREW phone here12:18
rockyddtimeless? how to get it without installing coreutils.12:18
RST38hqwerty: Well, when BREW came up, MIDP was already there12:19
timelessare you in scratchbox?12:19
RST38hqwerty: MIDP is a castrated Java, BREW is a castrated C12:19
rockyddsorry, I don't know. timeless12:20
qwerty12RST38h, :)12:20
rockyddI don't know how to check this. is scratchbox a package?12:20
timelessrockydd: is this  a real tablet?12:21
rockyddyes, it is12:21
RST38hqwerty: it was still C though, a compiled language12:21
timelessrockydd: well12:21
timelessyou have a couple of chioces12:22
timelessone is to use dpkg-deb to extract /usr/bin/install from coreutils12:22
timelessanother is to try making a symlink from busybox to install and pray that it works12:22
rockyddok, and?12:22
timeless(no idea if it will)12:22
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timelessanyway, if you extract it, just stick it into /usr/bin12:23
timelessit should "work"12:23
timelessanother is to just write a trivial /usr/bin/install in sh12:23
timelessthere aren't many args and you can probably ignore the complicated flavors12:23
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rockyddok. I will try the first one. thanks12:23
timelessoh, and you should find out if there's a public bug filed complaining that it's missing :)12:23
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rockyddthank u very much!12:24
timelesshow do i look at line 24 of a dozen files? :(12:24
* timeless tries perl -ne 'next unless $. == 5; print ;' 12:25
Stskeepsqwerty12: worked, ta12:26
* qwerty12 wonders what he fucked up in his first build :)12:26
Jaffatimeless: for i in *; do head -n 24 ${i} | tail -n 1; done ?12:26
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rzr_hi, if it maters I just published some video of testing mer :
Stskeepson 770?12:28
* Stskeeps watches12:28
rzr_on qemu12:28
Stskeepsso the x86 version?12:28
rzr_I'll test next release on 770 promise12:28
RST38hNokia is increasing orders in March as it prepares to "launch several 3G and 3.5G products with multi-touch and multimedia functions in 200912:28
rzr_Stskeeps: i am waiting to recieve my SD card for 77012:29
rockyddtimeless: I failed to download coreutils for apt-get is still check the conflict even if with the option -d12:31
timelessjaffa: unfortunately i didn't know what i was looking for12:31
timelessecho *enus1/po/en_US.po|xargs -n1 perl -ne 'next unless $. > 22 && $. < 31; print "$. $_";' |less12:31
timelessended up working12:31
timelessrockydd: apt-cache policy coreutils12:31
Jaffanice :)12:31
timelesscould tell you where to find it12:31
rockyddoh, great!12:32
timelessi kinda screwed up a search + replace12:32
timelessrockydd: in genereal12:32
infobottimeless meant: rockydd: in general12:32
timelessecho $* >> /tmp/my-debug12:32
timelessexit 112:32
timelessthen just read my-debug and figure out what the args mean :)12:32
timelessslowly add the pieces to handle those cases12:34
timeless(and exit 0 for the cases you handle)12:34
timelessthat's the black box approach :)12:34
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timelesssts: did you fix core_pattern yet?12:38
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timelessright, so.... is there any way to get my xsession to restart?12:46
timelessoh no12:47
* timeless accidentally uninstalled hidlon-theme-liberty12:48
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RST38hBTW, gentlemen, has anyone already tried Android-optimized google pages in MicroB?12:48
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timelessjaffa: btw, hildon-theme-liberty has no pretty name12:48
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Stskeepsqwerty12: got nit-kernel-compat package src still?12:52
qwerty12Stskeeps, nope12:52
qwerty12It's still there in the reop12:53
infobotqwerty12 meant: It's still there in the repo12:53
Stskeepsk, im gonna bzrise it then12:53
qwerty12Looks like I've got a reason to join launchpad then :)12:53
Stskeepshehe, yes, you do :P12:53
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Stskeepsqwerty12: i am in honest doubt wether root-mounted is a figment of imagination or not12:57
qwerty12dsme: unrecognized option `--root-mounted'12:57
Stskeepsyeah, exactly12:58
Stskeepsdsmetool, right?12:58
qwerty12[${SHLVL}|root@N800PIMPIN|/]strings `which dsmetool` | grep root12:58
Stskeepsso it does exist12:59
Stskeeps#       echo "nitboot: failed to get dsme to believe the root is mounted."12:59
Stskeepsfails btw12:59
Stskeepsnot sure why12:59
qwerty12Please fix, I'm not internationally renowned for my scripting ability :)12:59
timelesssts: so, it looks like any desktop applet has the positioning problems :(13:00
Stskeepshehe, k13:00
Stskeepstimeless: on VMDK?13:00
timelessi tried cairoclock13:00
rockyddtimeless: sorry, I didn't find the coreutils.deb13:00
timelessit fails the same way13:00
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Stskeepsrzr: can't seem to get the video to play13:02
Stskeepsgot a direct link i can dl?13:02
timelessaccording to my system13:02
timelessnot sure if there's a newer version13:02
timelessmy mirror is old13:02
timelessok, so...13:03
timelessi'm relatively happy w/ h-a-m now13:03
Stskeepstimeless: if you see problems or issues, add them to , if we disagree if it should get into mer discussion ensues, but just add to the list and we'll get to them eventually :)13:04
rockyddtimeless: thanks, but, how did you find that link?13:04
timelessanyway, people who are 'subscribed' to forjx should grab a new version13:04
timelessrockydd: i have a mirror of repository.maemo.org13:04
timelessso, cd  <mymirror>13:04
timelessfind . -name '*coreu*deb'13:04
timelessstskeeps: please grab forjx and try it in the enxt hour or so :)13:05
rockyddo. can I use the apt-get to find this link?13:05
timelessapt-cache policy for me gives:13:06 jaunty/main Packages13:06
Stskeepstimeless: forjx?13:06
timelessw/ a lot of effort..13:06
timeless/var/lib/apt/lists/dk.archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_jaunty_*Packages would help13:07
timelessgrep 'Package: coreutils' /var/lib/apt/lists/dk.archive.ubuntu.com_ubuntu_dists_jaunty_*Packages13:08
rockyddoh, right13:08
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timelesstells me it's in
timelessthe _'s in the filename are actually /'\s in http13:08
timelessso you can recover something like that13:09
timelesswell, maybe not /'s exactly13:09
timelessbut it's doable13:09
timelessalternatively there's a Path/Pool thing near that section13:09
timelesswhich is the path within the something13:09
timelessit's doable13:09
* timeless has code which does it13:09
timelessfwiw, this is jaunty/x86 because it's Mer0.7-vmware13:10
timelessnormally i don't run ubuntu13:10
rockyddoh, thanks13:10
* timeless wonders why 'fuelpad-dbg' is available from Blue pill-ham13:11
qwerty12Do you have extras enabled or something in Mer?13:11
qwerty12ah :)13:11
timelessis that bad? :)13:11
Stskeepsnah, it is a good way to see where we're lacking13:11
timelessfwiw, jaffa, maemo-mapper doesn't have a pretty name13:12
timelessplease file a bug :)13:12
qwerty12No, not at all, I was just wondering where all this maemo stuff was coming from :D13:12
timelessqwerty: please update forjx13:12
timelessthe h-a-m strings should be much better13:13
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qwerty12timeless, sorry, I'm busy packaging atm :)13:13
qwerty12Stskeeps, ooh13:13
Stskeepsqwerty12: tablet-init also allows nice tricks like:13:14
Stskeeps ;)13:14
timelessqwerty: alright, just install it before you install your package :)13:14
qwerty12Stskeeps, haha, I like ;)13:14
* timeless installs liqbase13:14
qwerty12timeless, :)13:14
Stskeepstimeless: no clue how stable Xv is :>13:15
timelesssts: i'm testing strings, not using programs :)13:15
Stskeepswell either is good if it actually boots13:15
* timeless is much happier with the new strings13:15
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timelessyou won't be confused between a package named 1MB and a package that needs to download 1MB of stuff13:16
* Stskeeps ponders idly13:16
StskeepsE: Couldn't make mmap of 25165824 bytes - mmap (22 Invalid argument)13:16
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timelessthat's a standar dthing13:16
timelessyou need an apt.conf.d setting to make it less stupid13:17
Stskeepsffs.. a jffs2 problem13:19
timelessit's apt::cache-limit13:19
timeless# echo 'APT::Cache-Limit "125829120" ' > /etc/apt/apt.conf.d/30cache13:19
timelesswhere the number is picked somewhat randomly13:19
timelessof any of the dozens of duplicates13:20
Stskeeps or this13:20
timelessyeah yeah13:20
timelessthere are dozens of copies of the bug all over13:21
timelessyou get used to it13:21
timelessdoes Organize applications in panels in control panel work for you?13:22
timelessi can't seem to actually drag stuff13:22
timelesshrm, now i can13:22
qwerty12"Kill as much alien insect motherfuckers as possible." or "Kill as much alien insect bastards as possible."13:22
qwerty12s/."/." ?/ :)13:23
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* qwerty12 is only asking because original description of this game uses bastards, but I like motherfuckers more13:24
timelessorganize doesn't actually *work*13:24
timelesseven after you do stuff13:24
timelessdoes organize assume you're /home/user ?13:24
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Stskeepsentirely plausible13:25
timelessscrobbler needs some English love13:25
timelesshow hard is it to spell OK correctly? :(13:25
* Stskeeps generates a new jffs2 imag13:27
AStormgenerate an ubifs one too ;)13:28
Stskeepsdoes it have a mkubifs thing?13:28
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Stskeepstaking in files13:28
AStormno idea13:30
AStormcan't find the tools, weird13:30
timelessin normal solitaire13:30
timelesscan you stick any random card on an open slot?13:30
qwerty12mkfs.ubifs exists in latest mtd-tools ;)13:30
rockyddwhy it want scratchbox/.../install?13:31
rockyddmake: /scratchbox/tools/bin/install: Command not found13:31
qwerty12why what wants that?13:31
timelessrockydd: lots of packages are stupid :)13:31
timelessand their owners are ever dumber13:31
* timeless grumbles13:31
rockyddmake install want this, how to change13:32
timelesssudo mkdir -p /scartchbox/tools/bin; sudo ln -s /usr/bin /scratchbox/tools/bin13:32
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rockyddthat will work13:32
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timelessin theory13:33
timelessdunno about practice13:33
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slonopotamus"election process referendum"13:34
slonopotamusoh my13:34
slonopotamusthey'd better write code instead :)13:34
JaffaWho's "they"?13:35
* Jaffa writes plenty of code TVM13:35
JaffaInterest in community process isn't incompatible with writing code, y'know.13:35
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* Stskeeps watches Mer boot13:38
qwerty12Anyone know a sane way for dpkg to install configuration files in /home/user sanely? For roxterm, I did: and I still have nightmares13:38
Stskeepsick :P13:38
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Stskeepsmorning lardman13:40
Stskeepslardman: :)13:41
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wazdafternoon everybody)13:44
qwerty12hi wazd13:44
RST38hheya wazd13:46
RST38hwazd: Feel like drawing a cure pixel-perfect picture of TI83 calc? =)13:47
RST38hsorry, TI8513:47
RST38hs/cure/cute/ ah shit13:47
RST38hqwerty: You can actually use "install" program for that, should work13:49
wazdRST38h: well, why not :)13:49
qwerty12RST38h, but maemo doesn't come with a install program by default and coreutils conflicts :/13:49
slonopotamusvoting on voting process is an extremely interesting thing :)13:49
wazdRST38h: I've almost nothing to do before UI release13:49
RST38hwazd: ok, gimme another few days to update the sources so that they run with the latest EMULib...13:50
qwerty12slonopotamus, irony at its best :)13:50
wazdwhoa, Weather Underground provides XML for... free!!1113:50
RST38hqwerty: If I understand things correctly, "install" only has to run on the host system when creating a deb file?13:50
slonopotamusqwerty12, i wonder how they will split when mer becomes fully functional13:51
wazdomg, can't beleive my eyes)13:51
slonopotamusqwerty12, will there be single "maemo community" or "maemo community" and "mer community"13:51
Stskeepsslonopotamus: mer doesn't exist without maemo, so13:52
qwerty12RST38h, oh, I can install the file into the package but when dpkg installs, I risk having /home/user owned by root but then again, I may be able to run chown without -R...13:52
Jaffaslonopotamus: what's all this "they" stuff?13:52
qwerty12slonopotamus, I'm not really part of either but I can't imagine Mer splitting seeing as it plans on using a lot of stuff from Fremantle13:52
aquatixwazd: whoa13:52
Jaffaqwerty12: and what of "it" are you not part of?13:53
slonopotamusStskeeps, closed software? everything else can happily live without maemo13:53
aquatixwazd: that wasn't free first right?13:53
* Jaffa is very confused by some of these statements13:53
Stskeepsslonopotamus: i guess it's how you define maemo really13:53
wazdaquatix: yep13:53
Jaffaslonopotamus: given that Maemo Software is the primary developer of Hildon, I think you're might be a little off13:53
RST38hJaffa: ok, to claridy things, you are either "they" or "it".13:53
wazdaquatix: just came to them in search of free sources and license agreements)13:53
slonopotamusJaffa, do you separate Maemo Software and Maemo Distro?13:53
qwerty12Jaffa, the community :)13:54
Jaffaslonopotamus: To an extent. But the thread is about the community, and given that houses Mer, I fail to see what you're driving towards.13:54
* RST38h cackles evilly13:54
slonopotamusqwerty12, i use gcc. it doesn't mean i'm part of anything.13:54
Stskeepsqwerty12: i'd say you're participating and doing active community work, but hey :P13:54
Jaffaqwerty12: In what way are you *not* part of the community? You contribute to #maemo, you're prolific on ITT, ...13:54
Jaffaqwerty12: why do you think you're not part of the community?13:55
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slonopotamusJaffa, "they" = people who claim to be in maemo community13:55
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qwerty12Jaffa, dunno, I contribute to ITT but I get the feeling that that's it13:56
Stskeepsqwerty12: it's also how you define community. i mean, are you part of wikipedia community when you edit a page once in a while?13:56
Stskeeps(i'd say so, cos you are learning the practices of the community)13:56
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Jaffaqwerty12: You're here practically all the time, you're on ITT a lot, you're in the community whether you think you are or not13:57
JaffaFor the record: the Maemo Community can be thought, roughly, as everyone here:, everyone who's subscribed to a maemo-* mailing list and everyone who regularly reads/visits/posts/has an account on ITT13:58
JaffaOh, and everyone who's semi-active on #maemo13:58
* RST38h has got flashbacks to soviet times now13:58
Stskeepscomrade qwerty1213:58
Jaffaqwerty12: given you're in the top 10 in that list, you must've done something in the community to get it :)13:59
slonopotamusJaffa, can't sort by nickname :(13:59
* slonopotamus wonders if he is on the list13:59
slonopotamusoh my13:59
JaffaSo, probably on page 30-40, at a guess.14:00
RST38hlow ranking party member indeed14:00
slonopotamuscan i leave somehow?14:02
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wazdI have 144 :) oh my :)14:05
lardmanStskeeps: sorry for the lag, cool, working on the Beagle :)14:08
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Stskeepslardman: i don't own a powered usb hub or a usb host enabler, sadly, so can't test kbd14:11
Stskeeps~seen kozak14:11
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infobotkozak <i=cbc8c84a@gateway/web/ajax/> was last seen on IRC in channel #android, 81d 3h 12m 18s ago, saying: 'thanks'.14:11
Stskeeps~seen kosak14:11
infobotkosak <i=faustpat@> was last seen on IRC in channel #debian, 225d 14h 40m 43s ago, saying: 'hello people'.14:11
lardmanStskeeps: powered hub is cheap14:12
Stskeepsyeah, but i just don't have one :)14:12
zeenixi so hate this thumbs-up and thumbs-down in p.m.o . People who just say something nice about Maemo get thumbs-up14:12
zeenixor just say anything14:12
Stskeepszeenix: i actually read the posts i thumbs up :P14:12
zeenixStskeeps: heh! i wasn't talking of anyone particular14:13
zeenixStskeeps: there is no way of knowing anyways14:13
* Jaffa also thumbs up anything he might want to read later (it *is* a favouriting system)14:13
Jaffazeenix: Have you got specific complaints? [texrat was moaning similarly recently]14:14
qwerty12_N800It's for Maemo, surely you weren't hoping that there would be no favouritism :)14:14
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zeenixJaffa: dude! i have had a bug about it14:14
zeenixJaffa: which did some good: the karma doesn't go below 0 anymore :)14:14
Jaffazeenix: I know you did, just wondering what prompted a resurgence about it ;-)14:15
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zeenixJaffa: just reading through p.g.o . It's not personal anymore14:16
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: moving nit-kernel-compat to 100%14:24
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, w00t14:24
lardmanX-Fade: ping14:24
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qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, is apt still being a pain?14:24
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: yes14:24
X-Fadelardman: pong14:25
w00tqwerty12_N800: hmm?14:25
lardmanX-Fade: just out of interest, have the midgard updates been implemented yet?14:25
qwerty12_N800w00t, change your nick :)14:25
X-Fadelardman: Yes.14:26
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lardmanhmm, I'm still lacking14:26
lardmanin karma that is14:26
Stskeepsyeah, i'm waiting for iTT karma too :P14:26
lardmanno, discussion karma I mean14:26
JaffaStskeeps: you should have it if your ITT account is linked to from your profile14:27
StskeepsJaffa: it is, with url :P14:27
lardmanI have 44 now (I had 38 yesterday, interesting, no emails in the meantime) but have sent >220 emails, the majority to -devel and -users14:27
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JaffaStskeeps: is there a bug open?14:27
lardmanX-Fade: shall I reopen this bug?
StskeepsJaffa: no, so i should stop complaining ;)14:28
Jaffalardman: it's possible it's doing a recount, AIUI it recounts from scratch and could be only half way through at any single time. Mmmm, ACID doesn't count here14:28
JaffaStskeeps: or raise a bug ;-)14:28
X-Fadelardman: If it doesn't work for you, you should :)14:28
lardmanJaffa: well it will just keep the old value until it's recounted surely14:28
lardmanX-Fade: is there a better bug to reopen?14:28
Jaffalardman: from what I heard, no. Which is crazy.14:28
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lardmanJaffa: really?!14:29
lardmanX-Fade: is that right, karma is updated as it's counted?14:29
Jaffalardman: I hope I'm misremembering.14:29
JaffaOr it's been changed.14:29
X-Fadelardman: No..14:29
X-FadeIt gets recounted every time the run passes over your account.14:29
X-FadeBut it adds all the karma parts together at the same time..14:30
lardmanok, but the running total isn't displayed until it's finished the count I presume?14:30
lardmanhas the -community karma just been added in? /me is wondering why his discussion karma has gone up 6 points since yesterday14:30
X-Fadelardman: A few ms difference perhaps. But certainly not more.14:30
lardmanX-Fade: cool14:30
X-Fadelardman: No -community is not in there.14:30
lardmanhmm, still weird things going on then14:31
JaffaX-Fade: Is there a bug to get -community in there? And are you aware of an ITT bug for what Stskeeps is describing (no karma contribution showing up for anything ITT related despite having a valid member URL)14:31
X-Fadelardman: Yep, complain in that bug as something is not ok..14:31
X-FadeJaffa: Yes there is a bug for -community. I filed it.14:31
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JaffaX-Fade: with an election looming, these bugs would be good to get ironed out :)14:32
X-FadeJaffa: Yeah, juggling with time ;) New styling, bugs.. hmmmmm..14:32
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JaffaX-Fade: indeed, it's a good job there're lots of full time people working on :)14:33
lardmanJaffa: yeah, that's what made me check again14:33
JaffaStskeeps: when you've raised your bug, can you let me know?14:34
StskeepsJaffa: trying to see if addding a www. in front of url helps14:34
X-FadeI'll try recounting lardman's karma. Let's see what it gives..14:35
lardmanright, I've re-opened
lardmanthanks X-Fade14:35
X-Fadelardman: Simon Pickering (karma: 368.75 comments: 4 favourites: 1.75 buries: 0 blogs: 4 products: 0 discussion: 44 groups: 57 bugzilla_reported: 68 bugzilla_comments: 7 itt_thanks: 139 itt_posts: 31 mediawiki_edits: 13)14:37
X-FadeStskeeps: Carsten Munk (karma: 256.75 comments: 0 favourites: 9 buries: 0.75 blogs: 0 products: 0 discussion: 6 groups: 18 bugzilla_reported: 16 bugzilla_comments: 4 itt_thanks: 146 itt_posts: 16 mediawiki_edits: 41)14:38
Stskeepsk, ta14:39
X-FadeThat are karma values, not the raw number of course.14:39
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lardmanwell what's the discussion multiplier?14:40
Stskeepsitt_thanks=146 is determined by how many times i've thanked?14:40
X-Fadelardman: 1 iirc.14:40
lardmanok, so I have ~200 emails that should have been counted14:40
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, i'm waiting on you to approve my joining of Mer Committers. i thought knowing the admin on irc may help ;)14:40
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JaffaStskeeps: no, how many thanks you've received (multiplied by karma weighting)14:40
StskeepsJaffa: k14:41
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: LightGreen'ing hildon-plugins-settings btw14:41
Stskeepsand moving the bug into seperate item14:41
X-FadeStskeeps: sqrt(thanks) * weight  ;)14:41
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, ok, sounds good :)14:41
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: approved14:41
X-FadeLunch! bbl14:42
timelessjaffa: do you remember what product i wanted to add to bugs.maemo? :(14:43
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Stskeepsand morning johnx_14:46
* Stskeeps waits for the more correct beagleboard image to build14:47
* johnx_ has the flu, probably won't be very productive next couple days14:47
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Stskeepshehe, my productivity is 50% down with gf home and studies back :P14:47
johnx_probably just work and sleep for me14:47
wazdhey johnx_ :)14:48
* RST38h now believes into "two weeks before RX-51" rumor. 14:48
StskeepsRST38h: how come?14:48
wazd <--- Jezuz, MS are totaly geniuz guys xD14:48
RST38hAt least, it will have to be *announced* (like N97)14:48
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Stskeepsjohnx_: i kinda want to try and put mer on
Stskeepsthen again, it's probably next project after my Mer-table..14:51
johnx_ah, I keep looking at cheap psion teklogix netbook pros14:52
johnx_anyways, back to work for now14:52
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wazdIs snapdragon actually cooler than omap3?)14:53
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StskeepsPXA272 was armv5?14:56
RST38hwazd: About the same14:57
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wazdI lkie that "3D UI (User interface)!!11" banner in the top-right)15:04
wazdIt's like Toshiba is some chineese manufacturer with Nokla)15:05
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wazdThere should be mp8 support and "blututh" sign)15:05
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: i'm gonna put mer on a pocket loox 720!15:06
* Stskeeps gets out the straightjacket icon15:06
wazdStskeeps: ah, I had one, nice PPC :)15:06
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, woah, maybe i'll have a use for mine now :D15:06
wazdBut it was stolen and I bought n800 :)15:06
qwerty12_N800wazd, I still got my 720 :D15:06
wazdqwerty12_N800: bastard :)15:07
RST38hwazd: There is really one drawback in that Toshiba15:07
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qwerty12_N800I stole from some person in Moscow :)15:07
RST38hUnfortunately, this drawback is WindowMobile, which makes it unusable15:07
lcuklol qwerty12_N80015:08
wazdRST38h: If manufacturer places "smooth transitions between apps" on the front page of the ad - it has nothing else to show15:08
wazdqwerty12_N800: >:-D15:08
RST38hwazd: It is WinMobile. Crooked to begin with.15:08
lcukwhy not - you know they have nothing if they DONT say something about how sliq their ui is15:08
RST38hwazd: Whatever you do to it, isn't going to make it better.15:08
JaffaRST38h: TG01 unveiling at the MWC makes you think Nokia'll unveil RX-51 as well?15:09
RST38hJaffa: Yep15:09
wazdJaffa: I think so too actually :)15:09
RST38hJaffa: At least in image, like N9715:09
* Jaffa wonders if the capacitive screen in the RX-51 could enable multitouch (that Engadget story quoted Nokia saying "touchscreen *devices*"15:09
* Jaffa does too, FWIW.15:09
JaffaMight be wishful thinking, but they need to build some hype up.15:09
X-FadeJaffa: There are captive screens that can do that.15:10
* RST38h read that capacitive touchscreens have low precision15:10
wazdJaffa: well, I thought RX-51 would have resistive TS15:10
Jaffawazd: Yes, sorry - I got it wrong15:10
RST38hSo, I would almost bet on RX-51 having resistive screen15:10
X-FadeEHm resistive screens that can do that..15:10
RST38hOr Hildon won't work15:10
JaffaCan *resistive* screens somehow do multitouch15:10
rooperx51 has a resistive screen.15:10
Jaffaroope: sorry, I had a disconnect between brain & fingers15:11
wazdanyone else wants to tell that RX-51 would have a resistive touchscreen?))15:11
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X-Fadewazd: Source code indicated resistive.15:11
qgilrx51 has a resistive screen.15:11
roopejaffa: not really, since ... well. Well. you can try launching sketch and playing with two fingers at the same time.15:11
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roopeit draws in between the two finger points.15:12
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Jaffaroope: indeed, seen lcuk's playing with that effect in liqbase15:12
qgilI cant talk bout hardware15:12
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X-Fadeqwerty12_N800, wazd: please don't do that.15:12
X-FadeThis gets logged.15:12
JaffaNaughty boys15:12
roopeOf course you could do a uberhack and see that ... well. Another input, suddenly very far away frmo the first input. No human can move the finger so fast.15:12
RST38hX-Fade: GOOD.15:12
lcukbut if you use it for a fixed starting point (like for instance a SHIFT key) then you *can* give the full multitouch experience without being too flashy ;)15:12
timelessjohnx: ping15:12
timelesssts: ping15:12
roopeAnd then perhaps say = ahaa, he put another finger on the screen.15:12
timelesssts: try installing Hebrew in Mer15:12
Stskeepstimeless: pong15:12
qwerty12_N800eurgh damn.15:12
Stskeepstimeless: er.15:12
timelessi don't think it knows how to reboot15:12
Stskeepstimeless: it shouldn't15:12
timelessfrom the diablo extras or something15:12
timelesswell, it tried very hard15:13
timelessand it gave me the OS update strings15:13
qwerty12_N800for the record, that wasn't the real qgil. it was me & wazd15:13
timelesskinda amusing15:13
wazdX-Fade: Well, I told exactly the thing Quim always tells (and does it right) :)15:13
JaffaStskeeps: isn't Mer on the Viliv S5 just the x86 version?15:13
lcukroope, its not halfway either - it has to account for pressure differential between fingers and with extremely slight variations the hot zone varies wildly15:13
aquatixi'd say so15:13
StskeepsJaffa: probably.15:13
roopelcuk: yup, it's quite wacky.15:14
lcukyou can test and confirm directly in liqbase ;)15:14
roopeI was working kind of on that issue also when I was working on the stylus vs. finger detection.15:14
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: ironic fact. artwork for loox is dolphins.. in water15:14
Stskeepsthis device is -made- for mer15:14
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qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, hehe, no need to remind me - i used to see it a lot after rebooting :p15:15
timelesssts: what was i supposed to ping johnx about?15:15
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wazdStskeeps: I remember some poorly drawn dolphins)15:15
timelesslogout out of the session?15:15
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roopeWhat I personalyl find interesting about the Android release is that it looks like they are planning to get the same release working in a mobile phone and in a netbook form factor.15:15
Stskeepstimeless: h-d-e, but i patched this already15:16
lcukroope, they arent the only ones :)15:16
timelessdiablo doesn't have dpkg-reconfigure!15:16
Stskeepstimeless: nor debconf15:16
X-Fadetimeless: Nope.15:16
timelessok, so...15:16
* timeless frowns15:16
Jaffaroope: chinook would've been great for netbooks ;-)15:16
timelessok, so, if i hang h-a-m15:16
timelessroope: where are you physically?15:17
roopeAt home. Sick.15:17
timelessoh bother15:17
timelessget well soon15:17
Stskeepsroope: i think some of the hildon desktop layouts may be useful on netbooks15:17
timelessso, application manager doesn't like me15:17
roopeI'm going to see the doctor. 38.6 fever and rising. I just love feeling like cr... like a carp.15:17
timelessaren't fish cold blooded?15:18
timelessit can't be that warm inside ;-b15:18
lcukjaffa, chinook had too many binaries - mer on the other hand is being built as sane standard core with specific bits ontop15:18
lcukit should be as happy on arm as it is x8615:18
Jaffalcuk: yeah, I meant in terms of how it was in no way very useful for finger touches :)15:18
Jaffa(in general)15:18
* lcuk agrees15:19
JaffaDiablo took us in a more finger friendly direction (sub-optimally and inconsistently) but if that was necessary to get us to shiny goodness in fremantle and harmattan, so be it :)15:19
* Jaffa wants shiny new itchy hardware.15:19
timelessok, so obviously my current forjx is bad15:19
timelesspeople w/ diablo shouldn't bother trying :(15:19
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lcukmmmm shiny hardware15:20
lcukbut you should put some cream on for the itching15:21
roopeshiny leaves fingerprints.15:21
Stskeepsscreen protectors are a godsend.15:21
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Stskeepsmine is dirty as fuck but i dont see it15:21
qwerty12_N800shiny means you can wear it on your neck as jewellery.15:21
lardman|homeofficial flash images use same one for n800 & n810 don't they?15:22
lcukthe worse feeling in the world is taking stylus across a screen and suddenly feeling the tiny bit of drag as you catch some grit and leave a 5mm scratch over your tracks :'(15:22
qwerty12_N800lardman|home, different images15:22
lardman|homeqwerty12_N800: really? Same name though?15:22
lardman|homeah, RX-nn15:22
qwerty12_N800lardman|home, both will flash fine on each other with forcing but you have things like wrong docs etc15:23
lardman|homeok, thanks15:23
lardman|homeI've not flashed my n800 for a long while15:23
qwerty12_N800what's your secret? :)15:23
lardman|homewhy I've not flashed it?15:24
qwerty12_N800how you've managed to not need a reflash15:24
lardman|homewasn't using it for much15:25
lardman|homen810 is day-to-day machine15:25
aquatixlcuk: :((15:27
aquatixlcuk: another reason to use my grubby fingers ;)15:27
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lcukaquatix, ive got used to the feeling now but dread it happening15:28
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, wouldn't maemo guys have ran into the apt issue at  one point?15:29
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: i think they did15:30
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, they did. mmap.patch15:30
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lardman|homethey must have never thought how someone would say that url15:32
lardman|homethe end that is15:32
lardman|homewhat device is that a picture of?15:34
lcukarse end of the 810w15:34
lcuki remember the big butt from linuxtag15:34
lardman|homears-end please!15:34
JaffaWot he said15:34
lardman|homecheers chaps15:34
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lcukthough why they show gratuitous ars shots  i dunno - i suppose it just makes lardman happy :P15:35
lardman|homeno, just wondering if I'd missed the n900 announcement ;)15:35
lcuk"Heres our shiny new device, but we aren't gonna show you the front - we will just let you see its battery compartment"15:37
Jaffalardman|lunch: It'll be the Nokia 4Eva, and accompany an announcement that all bugs will - in future - only be fixed in Fremantle.15:38
lcukthen a few days later we see pap shots with the flap lifted slightly15:38
roopeJust wait until we start to mark fixed in Harmattan. ;)15:38
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timelessroope: didn't we start already?15:38
roopePerhaps for some issues.15:38
lcuk *RX-503: added stannah stairlift15:39
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lardman|homenah, coffee maker first15:39
lcukportable? we would need a big warning label15:40
lcuknokia miracle fuel cell technology, runs on the finest coffee beans15:40
RST38hRX-52 will be a photo frame.15:40
Stskeepslcuk: that's development you're thinking of15:40
* RST38h hides15:40
lcukahhh RST38h so we FINALLY work out the real purpose for the kickstand15:41
RST38hkickstand will not be foldable and will be integral part of the case15:41
lcukdoes it come with grandma perfume dispensor ?15:42
lcukuse the light sensor to tell when you waved hand over it and squirt out a waft of finnish sauna air15:42
RST38hlcuk: Accessory PD-3G!15:42
* lcuk chokes15:42
lcukahhhh, so thats not in the box15:43
lardman|homeI was trying to put together my car mount this morning, and I see they've given me the wrong screw15:44
lcukno, you've got the wrong car15:44
lardman|home(me was reminded seeing the random code names for the parts)15:44
lcukaccessory PC-42M15:44
lcukas rst would say :P15:44
lardman|homedamn, will have to go trade it in then15:45
lardman|homeGStreamer gurus?15:46
lardman|homeCan I change bits of the UI from a bus callback, or is that a no-no?15:46
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lardman|homehmm, I think that should be ok actually15:46
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lcukdepends what you want to change, ive been asked in the past why a program was failing in events - the event code closed down the container it was sat on..15:47
lardman|homejust updating a label, but after that happens nothing else responds15:47
RST38hshould be ok although it will only update it when you get to event loop15:48
lcukbut the gtk ui might be using hte label text at the time15:48
lardman|homeok, so it must be returning to the event loop for it to display the new text, which it does15:48
lardman|homelcuk: I don't think that's an issue here15:48
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lcuklol lardman - that sits like "here watch this, just hold my beer for a minute"15:49
timelesslcuk/sts/qwerty:ok, the latest forjx actually installs on my device :)15:50
Stskeepstimeless: hehe, scary :)15:50
lcukwhats forjx?15:50
qwerty12_N800timeless, woot  :)15:51
lcukvanishing - bbl15:56
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* timeless tests Sounds16:28
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timsamofftimeless: BOOM!16:30
rockyddNo rule to make target `ruby.h', needed by `sqlite3_api_wrap.o'.  Stop.16:30
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Jaffalo timsamoff16:30
lardman|homedoes anyone know if a GStreamer pipeline will automatically close down if its data is dropped for more than X number of frames? In my case 3 frames16:31
rockyddI am trying to gem install sqlite3-ruby16:31
rockyddI do have ruby.h, but seems that the make can't find it16:31
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* Stskeeps curses non-EABI kernels16:38
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wazdtimsamoff: hello)16:41
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* slonopotamus likes freebsd make. $ make tea -> Don't know how to make tea. Stop.16:45
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qwerty12_N800~make ganja16:46
infobotmake: *** No rule to make target `ganja'.  Stop.16:46
timsamoffAnyone not able to start the latest SDK w/ Xephyr? I get half of the Hildon UI, but the rest of the screen is blank/unusable.16:46
Stskeepstimsamoff: yeah, they don't start matchbox-window-manager16:47
Stskeeps(for one)16:47
Stskeepsspeaking of pre-alpha2?16:47
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Stskeepsyeah, it's a tad broken for devel work16:48
timsamoffAh. Ok. I saw screengrabs of Alpha1, so was it working (I never installed it).16:48
Stskeepsyerga's stuff was with inserted matchbox initialization16:49
Stskeepsif you want to test the widgets, Mer has them :P16:49
timsamoffThanks for the info. And, for the record... Mer is coming along so friggin' nicely. Good work.16:50
Stskeepswe'll see where it ends up :P16:51
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* Stskeeps is trying to port Mer onto a pocket loox 72016:53
* r2d2rogers is waiting to see if nm-applet will connect to something16:54
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: if it fails, try out wifi-radar16:54
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r2d2rogersdo we have anything for setting screen dim intervals?16:54
Stskeepsdsme-tools doesnt do the job?16:55
Stskeepsjsut edit the init.d for dsme-tools (for now)16:55
r2d2rogershaven't played with it yet ;)16:55
* qwerty12_N800 laughs as his bit of code actually works 0_o16:56
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slonopotamusqwerty12_N800, beware of code that laughs at you and pretends working16:58
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wazdI wonder. How Nokia will solve the problem that VM doesn't have any 3D acceleration for images)16:58
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timsamoffwazd: I'm ignorant, but does Clutter solve some of this innately?16:59
wazdWill new UI work fine with SW render16:59
Jaffawazd: which VM? Nokia have never shipped a VM for development; only Scratchbox (officially)17:00
wazdtimsamoff: I don't know, I'm really far away from linux tech :)17:00
Jaffawazd: should do, although it'd be slow on an ARM; not so slow on a beefy desktop17:00
wazdJaffa: Aw, I was talking bout VMWare17:00
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X-Fadewazd: vmware has 3d accel support.17:01
wazdX-Fade: On windows - nope17:01
X-Fadewazd: Problem is that we need opengl-es..17:01
wazdX-Fade: Doesn't worked for me with Ubuntu17:01
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X-Fadewazd: vmware should have opengl and directx support.17:02
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wazdX-Fade: well, I've done all the stuff described in readme but nothing happened17:03
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X-FadeAnyway Opengl should not be a problem. OpenGL-ES might be tricky..17:05
kessuhi, is youtube slower in os2007 than os2008 (n800) ? looks like it but is it possible?17:06
timsamoffkessu: Yes, for sure.17:07
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wazdX-Fade: thanks, I'll try that17:07
qwerty12_N800older flash & the processor runs at 330 in os2007 afaik17:07
kessutimsamoff: thanks17:07
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X-Fadetimsamoff: Otherwise it would be a serious regression ;)17:09
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wazdNew Toshiba pda gallery17:13
timsamoffwazd: Looks pretty slick.17:15
lcukx-fade, for clutter dev you just need normal linux desktop (but make sure its a fast one, my ibm lenovo is poor at renderering even simple scenes at 1.4ghz)17:16
lcukfor actual ogl-es stuff you need specific devices17:16
timsamoffRST38h: But, easy to navigate... Maybe those colors are customizable...? In any case, I don't see portrait mode. Hmmm.17:19
RST38htimsamoff: it is a single app on top of WinMobile 6.x17:20
qwerty12_N800timsamoff, winmo has had rotation since wm2003se, be a pita if they removed it in winmo 6 :)17:20
RST38htimsamoff: i.e. it does not get any better underneath17:20
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* RST38h hopes someone hacks this thing to run a usable software stack17:21
roopethings like the htc touch are really... the harder they try to put up a cool UI on top, the worse the winmo below it starts to feel.17:21
lcukRST38h, a web browser is also just a single app ontop of any OS - look at the value it brings17:21
RST38hlcuk: Look at the IE Mobile browser included with that Toshiba or HTC Touch17:21
RST38hlcuk: After you finish talking to the toilet bowl, let us know about the value it brought =)17:22
lcukcant you get a webkit browser for these things nowadays?17:22
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RST38hGuess so, as a third party app17:22
roopeThere's the fennec pre-alpha -something for winmo now.17:22
aquatixlcuk: sure, or fennec17:22
timsamoffroope: Thankfully, I haven't used winmo in many many years. :)17:22
aquatixtimsamoff: make that "never" ;)17:22
roopeThen again, Fennec. Ugh.17:22
aquatixroope: hehe17:22
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aquatixwhy did they have to use such a kiddy OS on seemingly nice hardware?17:23
lcukRST38h, there is actually one niceish (though slow) thing for winmo :compact .net  as much as i hated dev in it i can see the benefits especially for a microsoft shop17:24
aquatixthat TG01 would look rather nice with some maemo-based phone OS17:24
roopeI shouldn't probably say nasty things about Fennec, and then again, I have nothing really positive to say about their UI, so ... I can't say anything. :)17:24
timsamoffSilence is golden. :p17:24
timsamoffIf it worked like it was supposed to... Maybe something.17:25
roopeIf it worked like it's supposed to work, it's still ... clumsier to access functions using dragging gestures than simply tapping buttons.17:26
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roopeSay you want to zoom into to a couple of pages and switch tabs between them easily. Good luck!17:26
lcukwhilst we are burning paradigms, can we get rid of tap n hold?17:26
timsamoffroope: True, but... They're thinking outside the box in some regards -- which sometimes just take time to get used to,. But, overall, I agree.17:27
X-Fadelcuk: And replace it with what? tripple-click?17:27
timsamoffIf I can't click something four times, forget it.17:27
roopeTap and hold is rarely used, but ... Then again. It has its minor uses.17:28
lcukwell for a start - it would be nice to have a global default configurable: tapnhold, double tap, shift tap17:28
roopeAs long it's not for mandatory functions, it's kind of like meh.17:28
timsamoffIf t/h was more responsive, I'd want more of it.17:28
X-Fadetry to click exacly at the same spot while walking. Pretty hard..17:28
roopeDouble tap is a much harder idea. Double tap implies that you cannot really do much after a single tap. That you must have a waiting timeout whether another tap comnes.17:28
lcuktry to hold it in same place and same happens - but you slip17:28
roope(unless it's like double tap to zoom in, where the first tap doesn't actually do anything).17:29
wazdmore Toshiba photos17:29
timsamoffwazd is spamming us! :p Hehe.17:30
roopePutting lipstick on a pig.17:30
RST38hlcuk: slow though17:30
wazdtimsamoff: yep :P17:31
wazdwell, it's damn slim)17:31
X-Fadelcuk: Well, Nokia recently got a patent for sensing where your fingers are on the back of the device.17:31
RST38hroppe: MS said they are "reducing the license availability" for WindowsMobile17:31
timsamoffroope is talking about Sarah Palin now?!17:31
X-FadeThatcan be used as a modifier for the clicj.17:31
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RST38hroope: With the goal of moving it to more high end products17:31
roopeIt's an interesting thing. Winmo 7 should be good.17:32
* lcuk missed his comment17:32
* RST38h , meanwhile, thanks Steve Jobs for whipping everybody's asses into producing *decent* mobile hardware17:32
lcukcool, make sure you let lardman know, he likes touching the backend17:32
lcukbut ive gotta vanish again17:33
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timsamofflcuk lol17:33
* Stskeeps watches ubuntu boot on the pocket loox \o/17:33
* aquatix makes a smart-ass remark about liking to touch his gf's backend17:33
aquatixStskeeps: lol17:34
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, fuck yes.17:34
aquatixubuntu netthing edition?17:34
Stskeepsaquatix: soon Mer!17:34
aquatixloox is vga?17:34
aquatixor is it the 320x240 one?17:34
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: if you want to play17:34
qwerty12_N800aquatix, yeah, it can go into vga17:34
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, I'll have to get a charger first :)17:35
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: and as startup.txt for haret17:35
* timsamoff gotsta go watch the seminar that John Ressig gave to Yahoo! about DOM code.17:35
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: hehe17:35
* timsamoff says "farewell."17:35
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* johnx feels kinda like death warmed over17:36
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, when you hard-reset, i presume winmo pops back?17:36
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: yes17:36
Stskeepsannoying but so it goes17:37
Stskeepsit's 2.6.26 though17:37
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, you should send solca a loox in that case...17:39
Stskeepsi am kinda worried about the battery on this loox though17:39
Stskeepslike, the battery has bumps17:39
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Stskeepsprolly from standing in sun for 2 years17:40
aquatixStskeeps: about to explode?17:40
wazd <--- that reminds me something)17:40
qwerty12_N800my one was a bit like that17:40
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Stskeepsjohnx: beagleboard port and Pocket Loox 720 in a day :>17:40
RST38hwazd: what are they selling?17:41
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RST38hOh, they are selling new website design!17:41
JaffaStskeeps: did it have a Linux port already which you could bootstrap over, or are you some form of ARM Linux porting genius now?17:41
olihow to re-start browserd, killed via ssh ;)17:41
StskeepsJaffa: in this case there was a kernel, had to enable EABI, and bam :P17:41
Stskeepsthen ubuntu userland worked17:42
JaffaStskeeps: lots of photos on Mer/About in the gallery, please :)17:42
StskeepsJaffa: i will :P should take my camera into work17:42
qwerty12_N800oli, /etc/init.d/tablet-browser-daemon restart17:42
StskeepsJaffa: anyway, it's just to show that mer can be put in a lot of different places :P17:42
oliqwerty12_N800: thanks ;)17:42
JaffaTrue, but we should talk about that on Mer/About17:42
milhouseany sign of the Freemantle equivalent of Sardine?17:42
RST38hSts: Mer for PocketPCs!17:43
Stskeepsmilhouse: huh? :P17:43
StskeepsRST38h: it is a pocket pc. it says so.17:43
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milhouseAlpha build of Freemantle for the devices - thought it was suggested/promised by Quim17:43
Stskeepsmilhouse: think it's alpha SDK you're thinking of17:43
milhousebugger, so nothing for devices?17:43
StskeepsMer uses fremantle alpha SDK components17:43
Jaffa...and Mer can run on many devices (including 770, N8x0 etc.)17:44
milhouseI guess that would make sense as Freemantle isn't supported by our OMAP2 hardware17:44
* milhouse duh17:44
JaffaStskeeps: does it actually get to a working desktop on 770?17:44
Jaffamilhouse: s/Free/Fre/17:44
StskeepsJaffa: yes, now it does17:44
Stskeepswe had sapwood problems before17:44
milhouse@Jaffa: Sorry! :)17:44
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JaffaStskeeps: and the shiny fremantle widgets all kinetically scroll nicely?17:44
StskeepsJaffa: no clue, don't own a 77017:44
Stskeepsask r2d2rogers :)17:44
JaffaWell, me neither. No reason they shouldn't.17:44
JaffaThat's very cool.17:45
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johnxStskeeps, very cool RE: getting loox and beagle booting. I guess I'll have to try and catch up to you now :)17:47
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* Jaffa just got a Product Flash from expansys on the N810: down to 179.99ukp17:48
aquatixStskeeps: you have some fancy refridgerator?17:48
aquatixJaffa: whoa17:48
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aquatixthat's like, 170 EUR17:48
aquatixhmmmmmmmmmmm :)17:48
X-Fadeaquatix: Well, actually more like 199 euro ;)17:49
aquatixX-Fade: details ;)17:49
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AFBN810Hey how can I reboot when in Mer?17:56
Stskeepspop battery17:57
Stskeepsor sudo reboot17:57
johnxopen the terminal and type: sudo reboot17:57
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AFBN810lol been poping battery since yesterday17:59
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slonopotamusplease recommend usb keyboard for n800. requirements: must fit in a pocket. optional: some handle to put tablet on it18:05
dnearyX-Fade: You know, we have a small problem of duplicate emails for accounts?18:06
johnxslonopotamus, how big are your pockets? and does it have to be touch-typable?18:06
RST38hslono: Nokia's own keyboard18:06
RST38hSU-8 or something like that18:06
qwerty12(Not my recommendation :))18:06
johnxslonopotamus, I assume the emphasis is on USB to get it working easily in gentoo?18:07
X-Fadedneary: What's up?18:07
slonopotamusjohnx, right18:07
dnearyX-Fade: I found 263 email addresses owning 2 or more maemo accounts18:07
dnearyWe should probably clean that up18:07
X-Fadedneary: Well, it that bad?18:07
slonopotamusjohnx, width of cd box, height - two cd boxes18:08
dneary252 of them only have 218:08
X-FadeI can create 1M email address if I really need accounts ;)18:08
slonopotamussu-8w... googling18:08
dnearyThe others are mostly nokia people (Jake has 6, Ferenc has 5, mika has 3)18:08
slonopotamusjohnx, preferred size - like tablet itself18:08
dnearyX-Fade: It seems to me like the primary email address should be a unique constraint for the users database18:09
dnearyX-Fade: You don't agree?18:09
X-Fadedneary: And are those duplicate accounts not deleted status?18:09
slonopotamussu-8w is bluetooth18:09
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X-Fadedneary: No, not really.18:09
johnxslonopotamus, su-8w is bt, not usb. are you looking for something foldable? or is thumb typing ok?18:09
dnearyThese are people we are certain are getting multiple ballots in elections18:09
* rm_you waves at johnx18:09
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dnearySure, it's not much effort to create a new email address18:09
johnxhoi rm_you :)18:09
dnearyI could create 6 or 7 accounts myself18:10
X-Fadedneary: If one really wants to do that, it is not hard to circumvent.18:10
X-Fadedneary: Not sure if you really need to put the time and effort in preventing that.18:10
dnearyDo you know how I can tell if an account is deleted?18:10
slonopotamusjohnx, both ok. smaller - better, self hand will hold tablet, so i have only one to type18:10
dnearyOne of the timedate fields is 0, right?18:10
dnearyThe third one?18:10
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slonopotamusjohnx, if kb doesn't have any hokder18:11
johnxslonopotamus, uh...that limits it a bit...18:11
infobotslonopotamus meant: johnx, if kb doesn't have any holder18:11
slonopotamusjohnx, it can be big but with holder for tablet18:11
dnearyThis came up when I was importing karma18:11
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dnearyAnd I was expecting email to be a unique index18:12
dnearyAnd it isn't18:12
X-FadeWell, I can add your email to my additional emails in my profile too.18:12
X-FadeInstant karma!18:12
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johnxslonopotamus, that still limits it :) I've been looking for the same thing for a while. my advice is to just make X work and use an onscreen keyboard18:12
slonopotamusjohnx, i can't test x from maemo, so i need to boot gentoo to test it. but without kb i'll have to reboot gentoo <-> maemo like crazy18:14
johnxslonopotamus, yes, but why do you need to do it away from home?18:14
slonopotamusjohnx, it can limit as much as it want until there is at least one satisfying thing :)18:14
slonopotamusjohnx, i have more important things to do at home :) and 2 hours a day in transport18:15
johnxshould take about one night to make X work... but let me find the keyboard that came closest to what you want18:16
slonopotamusjohnx, anyway i'd like to have some backup if i kill x :) and i'm sure it'll happen18:17
johnxX doesn't die in Maemo. :) make it not die in gentoo...18:18
slonopotamusoptionally, somebody could present me n810 :)18:18
slonopotamustoday is my birthday, so it's a good moment to do that :P18:18
johnxsure, send me $220USD+shipping and I'll give you a birthday present :)18:19
* timsamoff thanks X-Fade for helping.18:19
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wazdslonopotamus: Happy Birthday! There you go:
slonopotamushmm... su-8w has some kind of handle18:20
slonopotamuswazd, you're so kind... :)18:20
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wazdslonopotamus: yep, thats me :P18:21
slonopotamuswhat can you say about logitech dinovo mini?18:23
slonopotamusi like it's... mmm... you call it cover?18:23
slonopotamusupper thing18:23
johnxyeah, a cover18:24
Stskeepsjohnx: do you do 480x640 or 640x480 btw?18:25
* slonopotamus saw its price18:25
r2d2rogersJaffa: working desktop,yes, wireless, not so much yet, but I haven't gotten a chance to try with unsecured wifi18:25
johnxStskeeps, depends on landscape/laptop or tablet mode18:25
slonopotamus$200 here18:26
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Stskeepsslonopotamus: you can almost get a n810 for that18:26
Stskeepsjohnx: on zaurus, i meant18:26
Jaffar2d2rogers: cool18:26
johnxStskeeps, that's what I mean. it's a convertible tablet. right now I'm concentrating on 640x48018:26
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johnxslonopotamus, how about this:
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slonopotamusjohnx, loading... gprs is not-so-fast18:30
slonopotamusfor the record: n810 is $350 here18:32
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johnxwell, if you get me $220 in advance and pay shipping I don't see why I couldn't order one for you from the US :)18:33
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johnxand then rightly call it a birthday present so as to sneak it by customs :D18:33
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timelesshello world18:34
timelesscould someone please help me?18:34
johnxslonopotamus, meh. I have a bank account in the US and it is your birthday, right?18:34
slonopotamusjohnx, but i'll think on your suggestion :)18:35
johnxtimeless, what do you need tested this time? :P18:35
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timeless'account setup wizard'18:35
timelessi have a new localization package which is baking in my mer atm18:35
timelessso for now you're free to use whatever localiation you have on your device18:35
slonopotamusjohnx, hmm. right. so?18:35
Jaffaslonopotamus: so it's not cheating, nor tax evasion or customs dodging18:36
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milhousetimeless: enGB is all we need ;)18:36
timelessqwerty: newly baked package set uploaded18:36
timelessincluding nokia maps :)18:36
* slonopotamus doesn't see any relation between birthdays and bank accounts18:36
timelessor navicore maps18:37
timelesswhatever it is18:37
qwerty12Never used the map application :)18:37
qwerty12happy birthday slonopotamus18:37
timelessyeah, that's ok18:37
johnxslonopotamus, am I cheating then?18:37
timelessi'm more interested in Presence atm18:37
slonopotamusqwerty12, thanks :)18:37
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slonopotamusjohnx, i'll need to find a way to send you the money. and i don't have a spare $200 at the moment :)18:40
johnxslonopotamus, neither do I :)18:40
slonopotamusjohnx, possibly later, ok?18:41
johnxslonopotamus, I'll have to figure out some logistics given that the bank account is in the US, but I'm not. :) But I'll give it a try18:41
slonopotamusjohnx, hehe18:42
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timeless"Enter descriptive account name (e.g. 'home account1') and nickname (optional)"18:45
* timeless sighs18:46
slonopotamuswhat was that... 'not now, not later, not ever'18:46
johnxheheh, /nick optional18:46
timelessanyone wanna try to translate that into English?18:46
slonopotamusaccount name !=  nickname?18:47
johnx"Enter descriptive account name, such as 'home account1' and, optionally, a nickname"18:47
johnxs/r d/r a d/18:47
infobotjohnx meant: "Enter a descriptive account name, such as 'home account1' and, optionally, a nickname"18:47
timeless"Existing contacts will be copied from server."18:48 a spam forum.18:48
slonopotamustimeless, your goal is to rewrite everything?18:48
wazd"Please, would you be so kind and generous to let me know your magesty's personal account title and, but I'm not insist, your shorter name for relatives and friends"18:49
timelessslonopotamus: i think i'll leave a few instances of "OK" unchanged18:49
johnxtimeless, "Your contacts list will be downloaded from the server."18:49
slonopotamustimeless, oh :)18:50
slonopotamuswazd, sold already18:50
wazdand every pop-up should be led by "Can I ask you your majesty?" xD18:51
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wazdYes, you may ask/ No, fool, get lost :)18:52
timeless"Select task for %s"18:52
timelessther'es a dialog you get from contacts18:52
timelesswhich says "Select task for timeless"18:52
wazdSeems that ICQ banned Russia again)18:53
qwerty12woot, that's formido porting finished :)18:53
johnxtimeless, and someone typed "Retranslate the whole GUI" so now you're stuck working on that?18:53
wazdI have 12 contacts online)18:53
timelesssomeone asked me what i wanted fixed for fremantle18:53
slonopotamuswazd, that's good. more people will move to xmpp18:54
timelessi said, lemme show you18:54
wazdslonopotamus: well, that's kinda weird way to move people to xmpp :)18:54
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slonopotamuswazd, but works :)18:54
qwerty12wazd, wait. I've only ever heard of Russians using ICQ and now they're banning it? 0_o18:55
timeless"Contact is unauthorized. Unable to guarantee that messages will be delivered."18:55
timelessanyone know what that means?18:55
wazdqwerty12: Russia is the most ICQ using country :D18:55
wazdqwerty12: they ban 3rd party clients18:55
Jaffatimeless: You've added them to your contact list, but they've not approved you yet18:55
qwerty12wazd, ah :D18:55
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timelessok, can you write that in the form for the app?18:56
timelessContact has not authorized you... ?18:56
wazdqwerty12: And they ban only russian IPs18:56
slonopotamusalmost everybody uses 3rd-party icq clients here18:56
timeless"Contact has not authorized you. Messages might not be delivered."18:56
timelessok, dinner or something18:57
qwerty12wazd, really stupid imho considering that Russia's probably one of the few countries where ICQ usage is common...18:57
Jaffatimeless: "Contact has not yet authorised you: messages might not be delivered."18:57
wazdqwerty12: yep)18:57
* wazd lost tablet's pen(18:57
slonopotamusi insist on Z in 'authorize' :)18:57
qwerty12wazd, if you come to the UK and look around in Slough, you *may* be able to find the one I dropped somewhere...18:57
Jaffaslonopotamus: Not for en_GB18:58
slonopotamusat least for en_RU :D18:58
slonopotamusen, en_GB, en_GB_LIVERPOOL...18:59
wazdqwerty12: no, not that tablets, Wacom ones :)18:59
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AndrewFBlackWell I tried to install Personal Menu on Mer and somehow I now have to regular application menus lol19:00
qwerty12wazd, ah :). Ouch :(, are replacements (hoping that it doesn't come to that) expensive?19:00
Stskeepsknown bug, AndrewFBlack :)19:00
AndrewFBlacklol ok19:00
qwerty12slonopotamus, haha, accents are funny in this country...19:00
AndrewFBlackPersonal Launcher is working19:01
wazdqwerty12" I've lost somewhere in my room so it's a bit early to think bout the replacement))19:01
qwerty12hehe :)19:01
* wazd found it :)19:01
* slonopotamus hopes one day it will be possible to make phone call to any device so it starts ringing19:02
* johnx would settle for triangulating by rfid19:04
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Stskeepsjohnx: you should vlc :)19:16
slonopotamusneed to post photo of gentoo-on-n80019:16
slonopotamusStskeeps, thanks for reminder :)19:16
slonopotamusor even small booting movie19:17
johnxStskeeps, watching...19:18
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Stskeepssome bad usability problems but yeah :P19:21
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johnxhey Stskeeps. looks great :)19:31
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Stskeepsjohnx: rzr's video19:31
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pvanhoofso, who's going to use this to make a vmware viewer for Maemo?19:36
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pvanhoofComon don't be shy, tell us19:36
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johnxwhat kind of bandwidth are we talking here? and what's the advantage vs rdesktop or x11?19:38
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pvanhoofjohnx, advantage is I guess that you don't need to install a service on the guest, for example19:38
johnxbut this runs on the guest19:39
pvanhoofie that you can use a msdos guest19:39
pvanhoofno looks like this is for connecting to a vmware workstation or server, no? (remotely)19:39
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* Stskeeps ponders if it's in ubuntu already19:39
johnxah, I see19:39
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pvanhoofwell certainly looks like a nice feature for a tablet to me19:40
johnxwas thinking about 'guest' incorrectly19:40
pvanhoofie, rdesktop might now correctly allow the resolution to be changed easily19:40
pvanhoofthis client might or could instruct the vmware tools running on the guest to do just that19:40
Stskeepswhy on earth does people not provide the debian source packages for their debs19:40
johnxStskeeps, hopefully the debian/ dir is in their scm19:41
pvanhoofStskeeps, what about the software not being opensource? :)19:41
Stskeepspvanhoof: it is open source19:41
pvanhoofAh in that case, no idea19:41
johnxah, no scm19:42
johnxmaybe they're ashamed of their packaging job19:43
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Stskeepsnot gonna bother packaging it :P19:44
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MeizirkkiStskeeps: why do you think there's a bad usablity problems in rzr:s video?19:45
StskeepsMeizirkki: oh, in Mer, like, it is appearant there's an odd issue with HAM's "<something> is installed now"19:46
Stskeepsor the Enter thing19:46
Stskeepswhen i say usability i dont meant the user is an idiot, i mean the interface has issues :)19:46
JaffaThis is a fremantle thing19:46
JaffaDialogues with just an "OK" now popup modally and you have to know to press escape.19:47
MeizirkkiWhy doesn't fremantle have "ok" or "cancel" buttons anyway?19:47
Stskeepstouch.. :P19:47
Stskeepswe will know more soon i guess19:47
Jaffaask roope?19:47
Meizirkkiroope: ping?19:48
johnxI think we can assume there will be pushing us to use the hardware ok/cancel buttons :)19:48
JaffaIndeed, which might be "fun" for Mer porting Hildon to non-Nokia controlled hardware19:49
StskeepsMeizirkki: can you in ~15 minutes update your dsme-tools and verify it will run if it works, take my 95% on python-object on sprint, make it 100% and make it background:LightGreen?19:50
johnxeasily solved: Mer hardware requirement: some physical buttons :)19:50
Stskeepsaw, but my mer table..19:50
johnxsave some non-display area on the side of the touchscreen :)19:51
MeizirkkiStskeep: i'll try19:51
johnxdraw some pictures on it, and map them as buttons19:51
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Meizirkkihow can i verify wifi-powersave works?19:51
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StskeepsMeizirkki: well since you use wifi-radar it is a little difficult19:51
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Stskeepsit uses knowledge of if NM is connected or not to power save19:52
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* Meiz_n810 checks if he still has nm installed19:53
Meiz_n810oh! i didn't remove it :)19:53
r2d2rogersStskeeps: no go for secured WPA2 with passphrase on 770, it fails to connect on the wifi-radar, and the nm-applet just keeps going19:53
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Stskeepsr2d2rogers: k19:53
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: apt-get install sysklogd and let's see what causes it19:53
Stskeepsjohnx: oh, we got jffs2 image booting today too19:56
slonopotamushehe. they ask how long openoffice startups in gentoo. ask how long it builds :)19:56
johnxnice. still with 2.6.21?19:56
johnxslonopotamus, ahaha. looks like you have your first torture test :D19:57
slonopotamusjohnx, i have fully working cross-toolchain. i can use to build whatever you use your scratchbox. or i can take qemu and boot into it, just like you boot mer. but i don't have such need yet.19:58
johnxslonopotamus, well then get cracking :) I'm curious about openoffice in gentoo as well19:59
lcukslonopotamus, from experience, how long does a kernel build take on device?20:01
lcukserious q cos im interested in debugging some stuff and do most grunt work on my 81020:01
slonopotamuslcuk, i use stock kernel, i ddidn't build it. gcc 4.2 takes 8 hours.20:01
* lcuk has never compiled kernel anywhere20:01
lcukonce you have done the majority build though i gather it will work just like other things and only require rebuilding the changed elements20:02
lcukie after the initial 8 hours if i start tweaking a single file it might be done in a fraction of the time20:02
johnxunless the changed elements force other parts to be rebuilt...20:03
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slonopotamuslcuk, that's what ccache is good at20:03
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lcuknot likely johnx, im not thinking structural at the moment, merely changes to the window boundaries in omapfb20:03
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lcukany idea how long it takes on a regular pc ?20:04
lcukwith scratchbox20:04
johnxdepends on the build :)20:04
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johnxbut a normal build of Nokia's 2.6.21? less than an hour IIRC20:05
lcukfair enough20:05
MeizirkkiStskeeps: i'm now running Mer, how can i see if wifi-powersave works?20:05
slonopotamusgimme kernel config and i'll run 'time make'20:06
qwerty12slonopotamus, make nokia_2420_defconfig20:06
StskeepsMeizirkki: ps?20:06
Stskeepsps aux20:06
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slonopotamuswtf is 2420?20:07
lcukomap cpu model20:07
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MeizirkkiStskeeps: there's network-manager in the list20:08
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Stskeepsps ax (as root) has python wifi-powersave or the likes?20:08
slonopotamus1 hour on desktop you said?20:09
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johnxslonopotamus, depends on the desktop. I said 'less than' since I didn't remember the real time :)20:10
MeizirkkiStskeeps: yes there's "/usr/bin/python /usr/sbin/wifi_powersave.py20:11
Meizirkkii edit wikipage now?20:11
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slonopotamusjohnx, real    1m18.782s for make nokia_2420_defconfig after make clean20:12
qwerty12that just gets you the .config file20:12
StskeepsMeizirkki: yeah, sure20:12
slonopotamusjohnx, now 'make'?20:12
johnxslonopotamus, yeah20:12
slonopotamusi know20:13
Stskeepsqwerty12: so you lost your charger or it's just not in nearby reach, btw?20:13
qwerty12Stskeeps, my loox one? totally mashed up.20:13
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Stskeepsmashed? :>20:14
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slonopotamus/bin/sh: arm-linux-gcc: command not found20:14
slonopotamusit's broken20:14
qwerty12Stskeeps, wires all messed up etc :)20:14
slonopotamusgimme another kernel :)20:15
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lcukslonopotamus, windows_7_4803 :P20:16
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slonopotamusgood programs know how to find gcc. maemo kernel couldn't.20:18
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t_s_ohmm, after toying with the kinetic setting for mytube, something tells me that i may learn to like that kind of scrolling. that is, if i can access the settings to tweak the friction and speed...20:21
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* Stskeeps tries to fix 401620:22
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lcukhas anyone seen my images.  they were there last night, but now they are missing20:24
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rzrstraind`: johnx: at least my video was usefull20:27
johnxyeah, it looked great. :D20:27
straind`rzr: -straind`: too?20:28
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* lcuk calms down20:37
lcuki found my images, they were behind the fridge20:37
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lcukt_s_o, ive liked kinetic for years20:37
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t_s_olcuk: i try to like it but more often then not i find that it keeps running away when i want it to stop, or not continue to scroll when i expect it to...20:38
wazdtoshiba UI is a total crap)20:38
wazdgfx for gfx )20:39
johnxwazd, what do you expect for a winmo shell?20:39
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lcukt_s_o, half the problem with kinetic is the update refresh screen20:40
wazdjohnx: It's not winmo problem20:40
lcukto work well it has to be fluid20:40
wazdjohnx: it's like to say that world hunger is winmo problem))20:41
wazdjohnx: or global warming :)20:41
johnxwazd, how is 'winmo has a crap interface' not a winmo problem?20:41
t_s_olcuk: maybe so, but when i scroll without releasing the screen, making sure things have stopped moving, then release pressure, only to see things go flying of in some direction, there is something wrong...20:41
RST38hLook at the bright side though: WinCE (and WinMobile, I guess) has COMMAND.COM!20:41
wazdjohnx: I'm talking bout toshiba's GUI20:42
wazdRST38h: does winmo has explorer.exe or something?)20:42
johnxwazd, is there a winmo shell that does look nice in your opinion?20:42
RST38hwazd: oh yes20:42
RST38hwazd: ported from IE3 or IE420:43
wazdRST38h: well, whats the problem to write another window manager instead?20:43
RST38hwazd: I do not think it has window manager20:43
wazdjohnx: no, and thats the problem of shell creators, not winmo itself20:43
RST38hwazd: it has a status screen that is its analog of windows shell20:43
wazdRST38h: explorer.exe is WM :)20:43
RST38hwazd: ah, you mean THAT explorer20:44
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RST38hwazd: no, no wm20:44
wazdRST38h: not iexplore :)\20:44
RST38hwazd: there is really no way to "fix" winmobile20:44
wazdRST38h: first of all it should be rebuilt from scratch)20:45
wazdRST38h: since it's really old OS in fact20:45
RST38hwazd: there is nothing to rebuild there. It is Win95 quickly ported to arm20:45
johnxwazd, guess they're trying a pilot of that by running the next sidekick on bsd :)20:46
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wazdbut still, I wonder why all WM managers are so crappy20:47
johnxhmm? on X11?20:48
wazdthe best thing I saw was "magic button" :)20:48
johnxah, on winmo?20:48
wazdjohnx: yep20:48
lcukt_s_o, thats a fault in the algo20:49
lcukit should simply remember your deltas and degrade peacefully20:49
t_s_oheh, then why does it show up again and again?20:49
lcukwith different apps?20:50
t_s_oyep, both tear and mauku is driving me nuts with this, to some degree or other...20:50
* lcuk never has a problem with it20:50
lcukthough in mauku its a bit frisky20:51
t_s_omytube and webkit-eal (for lack of a better name) is thankfully tweakable, so that i can set things to my liking20:51
t_s_owell it could be that my screen is getting worn20:51
lcukin all the stuff in liqbase i made sure it worked as expected20:51
lcukive got a worse screen than anyone20:51
johnxt_s_o, the 'friction' is too low in tear IMHO20:51
lcukon one of my devices it doesnt respond to finger in the middle20:51
t_s_ojohnx: i may agree with you there20:52
* lcuk still has to put kinetic into liqbase20:52
t_s_otho the acceleration is somewhat nuts to. when things come to a complete stop and i release, it goes of like i did a full screen flick20:52
lcukis this with finger or stylus?20:53
t_s_oboth, but mostly i use stylus. and with finger its mostly the side of a nail as i cant get myself to drag something around by pushing the surface of a finger against the screen20:53
lcuki agree, finger on these screens feels wrong20:54
lcukfor pushing buttons its ok20:54
lcukif they would be the right size that is20:54
lcukyou are likely just falling for the cpu being too busy and getting a big mouse coords jump or something20:55
t_s_oshould not be, as the cpu applet shows no load at all, and it happens all to often for that, imo20:55
* johnx confirms20:56
lcukodd then, all i can say is i made sure kinetic works as expected in liqbase :)20:56
johnxsomething is up with the acceleration20:56
johnxmaybe it's a different formula than you use lcuk..20:57
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lcukyeah as i said at the start, its the algo20:57
t_s_ough, a unrelated issue with mauku, that a double tap opens the post/thread. that in combo with kinetic scrolling results in me opening way to many needless windows...20:58
johnxsame with accidentally clicking links/banners in tear :/20:59
t_s_oand having urls only available via the long-tap/gesture do not help...20:59
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t_s_ostill, i guess there is a limit as its designed for jaiku first, with twitter support added as a near after thought21:00
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lcukwhich version of mauku are you on21:02
Jaffat_s_o: agreed with the accidental clicking in mauku - very annoying21:04
lcukyes, testing the scrolling i keep opening windows21:05
lcukbut i cant get the random scrolling bug no matter how much i abuse it21:05
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lcuk(it has bugs and is jerky but thats different)21:06
* RST38h has seen random scrolling in MediaBox btw21:06
RST38hIt looks like if the device is under heavy load, it skips some drag events and interprets whatever it reads as a huge (negative?) drag21:06
lcukyeah RST38h my thoughts21:06
t_s_oi seem to get it mostly when im scrolling back up, could be something about the time between stopping and releasing, meaning the code reads it as a flick21:06
RST38hSo it starts frantically scrolling things21:06
RST38hIs this what you are seeing?21:07
lcukt_s_o, there is an issue where you do not receive the final mouse up so it connects with the previous stroke giving a massive jump in lines21:07
lcukdifferent apps have had it at different times, but its most noticable in painting apps21:07
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t_s_oto bad that webkit-eal have lost steam21:11
X-FadeIndeed, I use it as my main browser now.21:11
qwerty12_N800it wasn't initially done by pronvit, someone else may pick it up like he did from collabora :)21:12
Mekhmm... anybody know of any issues with the g++ in scratchbox and -O2? I've got a program that segfaults in very weird places whith -O2, but works just fine with -O021:13
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t_s_oqwerty12_N800: you got a point there, the code was released iirc, so its mostly a matter of getting interest. hell, if one can get it to work with the bundyo lib then i suspect it would really benefit, as it seems there are shared issues (osk, downloads and so on)21:14
StsN800t_s_o, if browser ui was oss it would gain interest outside maemo prolly21:15
johnxwell at least the ubuntu mobile people would be interested21:16
t_s_oit would at least make people play around more with alternate solutions to some things. like say embedded media ;)21:16
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johnxmmm...that would be *really* nice21:17
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t_s_ohmm, poking around that svn shows up a empty webkit-mifki dir...21:22
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wazdok, I've already contacted Foreca, and Ya.Weather21:31
wazdDoes anybody knows/wants any other descent weather source?21:32
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t_s_odepends on what part of the world your interested in ;)21:34
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Mekhttp:// <-- yay :) even without compiler optimizations it runs quite well...21:35
wazdt_s_o: totaly any part)21:35
johnxMek, the widgets look a bit small, but it looks very nice :)21:36
wazdMek: well, it's about a year old port or something :)21:36
Mekwazd: hmm? what is? this is the most recent release of openttd...21:36
RST38hwazd: Add Gismeteo, for the full measure21:37
wazdRST38h: Yep, I thought to write to them. In fact they have XML output but there's no icon number somehow21:37
RST38hwazd: And probably Wundergound and NOAA21:37
wazdRST38h: Wunderground is free to use already21:37
wazdRST38h: what's NOAA?21:38
wazdMek: Well, I played it year ago on n800 :)21:38
RST38hwazd: US version of Oceanography Institute21:38
RST38hwazd: Government agency dealing with oceans, maritime weather and geography21:39
wazdRST38h: oh21:39
RST38hwazd: they do weather forecasts too21:39
wazdt_s_o: thatks, I'll contact them21:39
Mekwazd: hmm.. okay; from where did you get it?21:39
Mek(and I played it a couple of years ago on my neo 1973 as well :P)21:40
wazdMek: well, it was available for OS2006 I think21:40
Stskeepsi ran openttd on os2008 too21:41
Mekah, those are a lot older versions; I guess they didn't trigger the gcc bug I'm fightning now :)21:41
wazdGismeteo has such an USSResque logo btw :)21:43
wazd"sovok" xD21:43
qwerty12_N800In Soviet Russia, weather data owns you21:44
RST38hwazd: Hey, don't touch 'em, they just bought an Itanium cluster from us!21:46
wazdqwerty12_N800: In Soviet Russia, weather forecasts you xD21:46
wazdRST38h: Why would they need it :)21:46
qwerty12_N800hehe :D21:46
wazdRST38h: their forecasts are coming from their italanium noses :)21:47
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RST38hwazd: Well, Gidrometcenter apparently computes its own weather21:48
RST38hwazd: Lots of it, judging from their computational requirements =)21:48
wazdRST38h: yeah-yeah, "and today we'll have... well... how about... -5!" :)21:49
wazdRST38h: they just have powerful random number generator :)21:50
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RST38hwazd: They are worse than, but not by much21:53
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RST38hBesides, maybe they are good at predicting weather for some really obscure piece of tundra nobody cares about? =)21:54
GeneralAntillesI'm going to bug the new h-a-m guy to see if we can't get something productive going.21:55
Stskeeps"the new"?21:56
Stskeepsno more m-vo or?21:56
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Stskeepsaw, m-vo was a good upstream21:57
timelessthat's because he was an engineer21:57
wazdRST38h: I can't find if Gismeteo can give any free XML info21:58
wazdRST38h: they have just paid options21:58
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timelesswhat the heck/ why does homeip require a pinned version of libhildonfm2?22:03
RST38hwazd: Why not scrub their html?22:03
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, yeah, I agree, and it leaves me a lot less optimistic about making h-a-m cool. :\22:03
Stskeepstimeless: Depends: hildon-desktop-python-loader, python2.5-hildondesktop, python2.5-hildon, python2.5-gobject, python2.5-dbus, python2.5-osso, python2.5-cairo, python2.5-gtk222:04
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timelesswhatversion is this?22:04
timelessCan't install homeip;22:05
timelessit needs: libhildonfm2 (= 1:2.0.2)22:05
timeless        libhildonwm0 (= 1:2.0.10-1)22:05
Stskeepstimeless: the one in mer repository22:05
timeless           libhildondesktop0 (= 1:2.0.10-1)22:05
GeneralAntillesSomebody go beat Khertan up with this stick.22:05
Stskeepsthat might be the python bindings22:05
timelessthis is my "diablo"(ish) n80022:05
* GeneralAntilles holds up a stick.22:05
timelessyeah, it's probably the bindings22:06
Stskeepstimeless: and don't get started on pymaemo..22:07
Stskeepsthat thing is curiously odd occasionally22:07
timelessaww, i can't install Nokia Chat either22:07
timelessdoes Personal Menu install on Mer?22:07
StskeepsAFB claimed s22:08
Stskeepsi thought it didn't22:08
qwerty12_N800should work now there is a control panel22:09
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timelesspersonal menu discriminates against n800 users who have broken touchscreens :(22:11
Stskeepswe still need that broken screen display watchdog message..22:11
timelessthis n800's touch screen will stop working for a while22:12
timeless(i think it starts working after you unlock the screen)22:12
qwerty12_N800timeless, mine does that from time to time :/22:12
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timelessbecause the n800 has a hardware arrow key, it shouldn't be much of a problem22:13
johnxI used to have touchscreen problems. I still think it was heat related though22:13
Stskeeps.. oh ffs¤"22:13
timelessbut most people don't write proper arrow key support22:13
AndrewFBlackPersonal Menu isn't working on Mer but Personal Launcher is22:13
timelesswhat's the difference?22:13
Stskeepsnow that i have gconf2-common going, and libosso-gnomevfs-extra, ..22:13
StskeepsNOW it complains about libvte922:13
timelessCouldn't install Personal Menu [ Close ]22:14
* timeless sighs22:14
* Stskeeps ignores gnome.22:14
AndrewFBlacktimeless, Personal Menu is a menu on the side Personal Launcher is a menu on desktop with icons22:14
timelessi wanted a plugin22:14
* timeless is tired of this really clever string22:14
timeless"Two plug-ins required"22:14
timelessremind me to thwap the author of that one22:15
* timeless frowns22:18
timelessIt looks like this is your first time running  [wdgtbdyes]22:18
timelessMaemo Mapper. Press OK to view the the help22:19
timelesspages. Otherwise, press Cancel to continue.    [ wdgtbdno]22:19
timelessdoes maemo mapper have a bugzilla product?22:19
GeneralAntillestimeless, not yet.22:20
timelessit's getting one now22:20
GeneralAntillesWell, I dunno if gnuite will actually look at it. . . .22:20
timelessnot my problem22:20
GeneralAntillesIt is mine, though. :P22:21
timelessdoesn't look like there's much of a web site22:21
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timelessProduct is now open for new bugs.22:25
GeneralAntillesI'll send a heads-up to gnuite. . . .22:26
RST38hIndian $10 laptop will cost $20.22:26
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timeless20? not 100?22:27
des^^what would be the best way to build a deb from python files?22:28
Jaffades^^: py2deb, at a guess22:29
GeneralAntillesOK, sent gnuite the heads up.22:29
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timelessjaffa: he has a bugzilla account22:30
timelessBug 4064 has been added to the database22:30
des^^I tried pypackager and it fails on me :s22:31
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Jaffatimeless: cool22:31
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wazdRST38h: I found that Gismeteo can give me XML weather!22:35
wazdRST38h: For one day22:35
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timelessok, so um22:37
timelesscan someone tell me why i'm getting those ugly buttons from Maemo Mapper in Mer 0.7?22:37
timelesswhere do screen shots go? :)22:38
Stskeeps~/MyDocs/.images if from load-applet22:38
* timeless launches fennec to load that directory22:39
RST38hwazd: that's already something...22:39
* RST38h wonders if it can be hacked =)22:39
johnxwow! think I finally have a clean package for xfbdev for zaurus mer. now to see if it builds22:39
johnxnothing is ever simple...22:39
Stskeepsit will have another name than -fbdev, right?22:40
timelesscan canola show pictures?22:40
wazdRST38h: I think to screw gismeteo, if Yandex will agree to work with us22:40
johnxStskeeps, I think xserver-kdrive-xfbdev sounds about right22:40
* aquatix downloads mer 0.7, finally22:41
johnxthat's at least ok for the interim, and the ubuntu guys can name it whatever they want if this goes up to them22:41
aquatixtimeless: yes22:41
timelessoh, re canola?22:41
timelessfennec is almost loaded..22:42
wazdRST38h: and more than that, I've found:
johnxmmm...that QuickClip statusbar applet looks delicious22:43
aquatixtimeless: yeah, re canola :)22:45
aquatix*G* @ ALMOST22:45
aquatixexcuse the caps22:45
johnxStskeeps, awesome! (except for missing the camera)22:45
aquatixStskeeps: nice22:45
Stskeepsjohnx: vmdk so :P22:46
johnxaaah. want me to test a deb on my n800?22:46
johnxit's sitting idle while I package for my z :)22:46
Stskeepsjohnx: wait for armel build, will take a while22:47
Stskeepslibhildon rebuild22:47
johnxah, is cheese building natively?22:47
johnxthe good news about xfbdev is that it builds in mer SDK nicely :D22:47
Stskeepsjohnx: part of ubuntu22:48
johnxhildonized cheese is part of ubuntu? cool!22:49
* aquatix loves using application manager in a VM, it's damn fast22:50
johnxwhat is *that*?22:51
aquatixthat's contacts from pimlico?22:51
johnxthat looks *usable*22:51
Stskeepsaquatix: no clue, contacts-hildon22:51
johnxfrom ubuntu?22:51
aquatixthere's also a nice agenda and notes thingee in there22:52
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aquatixall running on evolution data server22:52
Stskeepsdates-hildon crashes for some reason22:52
GeneralAntillesAre these from Nokia?22:53
johnxGeneralAntilles, that would be a negative, General sir.22:53
johnxmaybe you were right about not waiting for Nokia to do PIM :)22:53
aquatixmeh, the pop-over "advanced-backlight successfully installed" won't disappear22:53
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aquatixGeneralAntilles: pimlico stuff22:54
Stskeepsaquatix: click it22:54
aquatixStskeeps: ah :)22:54
timelessaquatix: press <esc>22:55
aquatixclicking it helped22:55
aquatixwould be nice if it disappeared itself22:56
Stskeepswell, oddities22:56
aquatixhm, why doesn't accept xchat my commands :/22:56
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johnxStskeeps, those are just vanilla installs from ubuntu?22:58
Stskeepsjohnx: yup. dates is a bit unstable22:58
Stskeepsdates-hildon looks remotely usable22:58
wazddamn, reading "license agreements" is so boring(23:00
r2d2rogershow do I get to the "allow Access" window behind the Network Connection one?23:00
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: hmm, gnome-keyring? i thought i had killed that quite well23:01
Stskeepsjust click the allow access button23:01
r2d2rogersI can't...23:01
r2d2rogersthe network connections settings box is in front of it23:01
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: 0.7 raw image?23:02
r2d2rogershave run updates23:02
Stskeepsah, well thats why then23:02
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, are those actually Pimlico?23:02
r2d2rogerskilled it23:03
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i have no idea where they come from23:03
r2d2rogersand then hit always allow23:03
Stskeepsthey're from ubuntu mobile i think23:03
johnxyeah, they're o-hand/pimlico I think23:03
Stskeepsthink with a bit of adjustment they'd be good candidates for inclusion into a std image :P23:05
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aquatixit'd be nice if they where maintained again23:07
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johnxhopefully the'll get some love as part of intel's efforts or ubuntu mobile's23:08
timelesshey, if i enable bluetooth for vmware, will it work w/ mer? :)23:09
aquatixjohnx: that'd be great23:10
Stskeepstimeless: usb stick? :P23:10
aquatixtimeless: try it? ;)23:10
johnxtimeless, I installed bluez-gnome and bluetooth worked on my n800 :)23:10
timelessnah, laptop bluetooth23:11
timelessit doesn't look like usb media works :(23:11
timelessi took my n800 and blugged it into my laptop23:11
johnxg_file_storage isn't loaded likely23:12
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timelessand then shared to my vmware23:12
Stskeepsit might help being x600 though23:13
johnxrunning at 800x600 vs 800x48023:14
qwerty12_N800they should make it use a hildontoolbar23:14
* timelE61i sighs23:17
aquatixghehe, changing the brightness crashed mer's X in virtualbox23:17
Stskeepsyeah :P23:17
timelE61imy laptop's beeping at me23:17
aquatixalso, the volume icon is hexaduplicated or something23:17
johnxtimelE61i, it's telling you it loves you :)23:17
aquatix`Feeeeed meeee, FEEEEED meeeee!'23:18
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johnxRST38h, yeah, that's a thrift sale I'd love to visit :)23:26
aquatixhahahahahhahahahahhahahahahah *coughspit*23:26
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* timelE61i sighs23:28
timelE61ilaptop is too busy23:29
timelE61iCould someone open connectivity cpl's second tab23:30
timelE61iAnd explain it?23:30
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milos_planet-maemo not working?23:45
X-Fademilos_: Works for me?23:46
* johnx sleeps23:46
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milos_X-Fade, when I enter this I get this error
milos_is that correct url?23:49
X-Fademilos_: Hmm weird. Let me flush the cache to see if that fixes it for you.23:50
X-Fademilos_: Can you refresh?23:51
milos_X-Fade, it started working now after refresh.23:52
milos_X-Fade, interesting because I tried before to refresh and it didn't worked23:53
X-Fademilos_: No, I flushed the server cache..23:53
milos_thnx :)23:53
X-Fademilos_: Something for me to debug tomorrow :(23:54
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timelE61iWhere does the app name come from?23:55
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X-FadetimelE61i: desktop file?23:55
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timelE61iReally? Yuck23:57

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