IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2009-01-24

Stskeepstry with the first letter uppercase00:00
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khertan_surely something related to qwerty ... number not working ...00:00
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jgwongHi, I've tried googling but found nothing useful -- is there a way to set up alarms (for alarmd) via command line?00:35
Stskeepsmorning johnx00:36
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Jaffajgwong: someone (qwerty12?) wrote a little command line wrapper for it00:44
* Stskeeps ponders how to make a vmdk bootable from outside vmware00:44
JaffaProbably doable (assuming no massive h/w hardcoded dependencies) without some qemu-img or dd fun00:45
jgwongJaffa: Ah, do you have a link or something?00:45
JaffaErm, let me look.00:46
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jgwongJaffa: Rawesome, thanks!00:52
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* Stskeeps wonders how a ifconfig eth0 down; ifconfig eth0 up cannot succed.00:54
* Stskeeps makes mental note of having to go into the office tomorrow.00:55
woglindeits weekend00:56
GeneralAntillesThus the mental note, I'd hazard.00:56
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* r2d2rogers thinks about trying a usbnet connection between two 770s to share the wifi of the non-0mer unit00:58
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, can I move Mer_Blueprint to Mer?00:58
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JaffaRather than the other way round... that was bothering me, too.01:00
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: go ahead01:00
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, can you make the Mer logo just a touch larger?01:03
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Stskeepsnow that's a good thing to know01:03
JaffaGeneralAntilles: not yet, it's just ripped out of the logo wazd was using on I've asked him to send me a larger, transparent-backgrounded version01:04
Stskeepswhen the IP config of the server dies and has a bad default gateway, and the VMware instance (configured correctly) on top, can still ssh into the machine01:04
GeneralAntillesI'd also consider moving the Latest activity below the 4 icons and just making them 4x1.01:04
Stskeeps-> i don't have to go into the office tomorrow \o/01:04
GeneralAntillesLatest activity is too long compared to What next?01:04
JaffaGeneralAntilles: can't do that easily - on my window (approximating a 1024px width) you get 3 + 1.01:05
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JaffaNumber of items, or font size, of Latest activity could be shrunk01:05
GeneralAntillesMaybe more text below What next?01:06
GeneralAntillesSome other section we could put in there?01:06
JaffaTo say what? Too much text and you turn people off - people won't look at anything above a certain amount.01:06
GeneralAntillesJust a paragraph01:06
GeneralAntillesTo balance it out.01:06
JaffaWhat's needed? Don't just put stuff there to fill whitespace ("don't be afraid of whitespace" someone clever said)01:06
GeneralAntillesThere's not much text on there, anyway.01:06
lcukhow does this wiki look on the tablet itself?01:07
Jaffa"News" would fit there wel01:07
Jaffalcuk: the boxes go to 1x4 and it all looks lovely (in both microb & webkit)01:07
lcuk:) good01:08
lcukvery important to have it working right on the intended device01:08
GeneralAntillesMer/About needs some more fleshing out.01:10
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: tweaked the front page a little. Agreed on "/About" - most of it is just c&p from the previous homepage. Similarly most of the top-level pages could do with some more structure, I think. But I may be thinking too "traditionally"01:11
GeneralAntillesIt still leaves me wondering what exactly it _is_01:11
JaffaGeneralAntilles: At the moment, is it /actually/ clear what it is?01:11
GeneralAntillesI'm not sure01:12
GeneralAntilles_I_ know what it is01:12
GeneralAntillesBut my 2-person focus group was left confused by it just now.01:12
JaffaAt some point, it may be a Fremantle-compatible, partial backport to various mobile devices. At the moment, it's still very embryonic01:12
GeneralAntilles"But isn't that Mamona?"01:12
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GeneralAntillesSome more specifics might help01:12
JaffaMaybe under "About" there should be a nice comparison table between Mer and Mamona.01:12
lcukjaffa, its a start :)01:12
lcukan idea01:13
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, maybe, although I suspect most people wont have heard of Mamona01:13
GeneralAntillesI'd talk a bit about Hildon and Maemo technologies, mabye.01:13
lcuka logical distribution capable of getting the best out of our devices, now and in the future01:13
JaffaIndeed - the comparison is fairly easy, given Mamona seems to have been pretty much an INDt-only effort without any real community push or involvement.01:13
Jaffalcuk: "logical"?01:14
lcukyes, currently its illogical and incomplete01:14
lcukin some of the deeper respects01:14
JaffaGeneralAntilles: I notice your areas of interest include "PR" and "documentation" ;-)01:14
JaffaAh, "logical" compared with Maemo? Closer to a "typical" Linux distribution01:14
GeneralAntillesJaffa, yeah, I'm bouncing ideas around though. ;)01:15
lcukyes, perhaps my description is a bit off, the intent was there - not so many hacks and side stepping01:15
JaffaGeneralAntilles: At the moment, we should be careful about overselling to end-users01:15
GeneralAntillesJaffa, of course.01:16
GeneralAntillesI'd be the first one to recommend THAT. ;)01:16
Jaffa"About" should have a fairly clear up-to-date status of what works/doesn't. And a screenshot or two01:16
lcukpersonally, i think if mer does nothing more than confirm that its possible then i would say its role is complete, but community interest makes me think its role will grow :)01:16
JaffaGeneralAntilles: You'd *never* want end-users ;-)01:16
GeneralAntilles(er, not overselling to users)01:16
GeneralAntillesI want their money01:16
GeneralAntillesbut nothing else. ;)01:16
JaffaTroublesome things. Should be shot (after mugging, it appears ;-))01:16
GeneralAntillesOf course.01:16
Jaffalcuk's obviously got his eye on being a trendy designer. His "occupation" column is all lower case :-O01:17
GeneralAntillesUploading to Extras also needs an intro. . . .01:17
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lcukjaffa, its spending too long in unix01:17
lcukive stopped capitalizing ANYTHING ;)01:17
lcuki found out the other day sqlite is case sensitive - its the first db ive encountered that is :$01:18
JaffaSo is SQL Server01:18
Jaffa...we found this at work when playing with our new architecture the other week.01:18
* lcuk looks funny, we use sqlserver2005 at work01:18
JaffaEasy fix, fortunately.01:19
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Jaffalcuk: maybe you always use the right table/column names?01:19
lcukthats gonna throw a spanner in cow orkers face01:19
arocsHi to all ...01:19
sp3000'tis what you get for orking cows01:19
lcuknever - camelcase everythign in construction and usually use all kinds of variation in queries01:20
JaffaHmm. Odd.01:20
lcukand jaffa, what about data01:20
lcukstring comparisons01:20
lcuki *know* thats not case sensitive01:20
JaffaDepends on the collation strategy, apparently. (Something I never knew until recently).01:21
JaffaThis is reminding me too much of work. </topic>01:21
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lcukid remember if id set it, it must be default insensitive01:21
lcukahhh well01:21
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StskeepsJaffa: trying to see if i can autogenerate VMDK images, so (virtualbox can read those) :)01:34
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arocsIn mer v0.6 distro ... how can i reboot / shutdown the operating system without entering in a root sesion ...?01:40
Stskeepsarocs: pop the battery :P01:41
arocsMy stand-by button is not working01:42
Stskeepsarocs: yeah, we need to build powerlaunch or the likes01:42
arocsPossible to install some aplication to get battery icon ?01:42
Stskeepswe're working on that part01:42
Stskeepsthat exact thing with the interface of stand by button and battery icon, is closed source, so :)01:42
arocsIf you need a beta tester ... ;)01:42
arocsYestarday i installed evince ... but no application appears in EXtras packages ...01:44
Stskeepsyeah, did you try to reboot? it sometimes requires that01:45
Stskeepshildon application manager which will be in 0.7 helps in that aspect :)01:45
arocsyes ... but no luck01:45
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Stskeepssometimes it simply doesn't add itself to desktop files so01:46
arocsIs it possible to install some kind of xterm ... ?01:46
Stskeepsyes, apt-get install osso-xterm    :)01:46
Stskeepswe got it working today, so apt-get update01:46
arocsi will try01:48
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Stskeepsevening VDVsx01:55
VDVsxStskeeps, Hi01:56
jake42-2r u here?01:56
VDVsxStskeeps, Today I start searching a little bit about debian armV4 :)01:57
Stskeepshehe, it's basically debian's armel port01:57
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VDVsxStskeeps, yup, but is already a lot of things done for openmoko :)01:57
VDVsxthat could help01:57
jake42-2how may I check if my easy debian is the turbo version?01:57
Stskeepsi don't so much worry about the port itself, but some of the architectural differences between ubuntu and debian01:58
VDVsxStskeeps, mer is Ubuntu 8.10 ?01:58
Stskeepsubuntu jaunty01:58
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radicis the resolution of the N800 1024x768?02:25
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dobum... Jaffa, the wiki toolbox doesn't work on the Mer page. It seems the large wrapper div blocks the toolbox with its position: absolute.02:31
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radicoverall cables03:28
radicI want wireless cables!03:28
towoCables need Bluetooth transfers.03:32
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dobJaffa: fixed the page03:47
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LinuxHack3rsisto: It arrives tommorow! Shipped it yesterday.04:03
LinuxHack3rBTW, it anygood? I'm looking around on maemo.org04:03
sistoLinuxHack3r: nice :D04:03
sistoLinuxHack3r: i'm getting mine on february :D04:03
LinuxHack3rsisto: Oh. Well that's good. Still can't believe someone who doesn't have an 810 convinced me to get one.04:04
radictowo: right!04:04
sistoLinuxHack3r: I did? wow.. i wasn't even trying. lol. I read the contacts app is not that good...04:04
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sistoLinuxHack3r: i was trying to find an alternative for the one that comes with it04:05
sistoLinuxHack3r: but i haven't started looking yet04:05
LinuxHack3rsisto: Well..I keep my contacts in I found mysql 4 on But I'd like something that would sync with plaxo.04:06
LinuxHack3rsisto: I'm personally excited for these 3.04:06
sistohow do you read your contacts? select phone from contacts where name like "sisto%"; ?04:07
LinuxHack3rsisto: I've written a fairly complex bash script to simply look them up for me. I type Contacts. A menu pops up...asking me if I'd like to search by ..well shoot...hold in linux/bash?04:07
sistoi didn't like the gpe option though... it's a virtual machine of another pda running on top of maemo on a 400mhz arm processor04:08
sistothat's probably slow04:08
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sistoso you use the console all the time?04:08
LinuxHack3rsisto: A lot of the time. If I can confortably.04:09
sistoLinuxHack3r: i'm not sure gpe runs virtualized though... i might have read an outdated article04:09
LinuxHack3rsisto: Save that one as a bash file...then try it out...of course it won't lookup anything...but you could easily create a mysql db with the given stuff.04:10
LinuxHack3rsisto: guess I'll find out soon enough.04:10
sistocan't wait to hear your stories!04:11
LinuxHack3rOf course. the software on about all..or are there other repos so to say? I'm hoping for a keepassx.04:11
sistothere's probably other stuff floating around04:12
sistoi think i ran into a blog post with a long list of repositories once04:12
sistobut i don't have that link04:12
LinuxHack3rCool. I'll google it tommorow on my 81004:13
sistohere's some stuff from nokia:
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sistowell not from them but compiled by them04:14
LinuxHack3rsisto: That's cool. Nokia really supports these things don't they.04:14
radicusb_bulk_write: Resource temporarily unavailable04:15
sistoLinuxHack3r: it seems so!04:15
radicthat happens if I want to flashe the kernal-image04:15
sistothis is kind of lame:
sistonot that i care anyway.. i have ffmpeg04:16
sisto(nokia's vid converter is only for mac and windows)04:16
LinuxHack3rsisto: Ah....well I'm sure a simple preset in handbrake will make things easy for me.04:17
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sistoLinuxHack3r: is handbrake based on ffmpeg or is it independent?04:18
LinuxHack3rsisto: It is based on a lot04:18
sistoit's probably based on the same stuff ffmpeg is based on04:18
LinuxHack3rIt is my favorite app..and I don't even use it but about once a month. It just works so flawlessly.04:18
sistowell it's going to come handy now!04:19
LinuxHack3rTake a look.04:19
sistoyou should install canola204:19
sistoit's a media player which supports audio and video, youtube, radios and podcasts04:19
LinuxHack3rI've seen it....looks neat. Sorta a "ipod overlay", so to say.04:20
sistoyes... the reasons i want it are youtube and podcasts04:20
sistoyoutube is kinda slow on the browser... but it runs well on this04:21
LinuxHack3rThat's cool. It looks nice too.04:23
sistothere's probably tons of stuff to try out...04:23
LinuxHack3rI just wish it had like a 40gb internal drive or something. They really need that to compete with ipods.04:23
sistobut you can get fairly close to that04:24
LinuxHack3rI know it isn't designed specifically for a media player such as ipods...but I almost bought an ipod touch just for the storage.04:24
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sisto it already comes with 8gb of internal storage04:24
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sistonot too bad :o04:25
LinuxHack3rsisto: Yes..yes that is good. Plus my 8gb card...actually that's better than the cheapest iPod touch...which would have costed exactly the same as what i paid.04:26
sistoi think it's actually 2gb04:26
sistoi don't know where i got 804:26
LinuxHack3rIt is 2GB...but when I realized I've got 10 for the same price of the touch...I got happier!04:27
LinuxHack3rI cannot wait to find a good deal of 16GB cards...I wanna try one.04:28
LinuxHack3rSupposed to work sisto?04:28
sistoi don't know but... it should work04:29
LinuxHack3rsisto: I hope so. I did read it only supports up to 8Gb..but I think that's because 16GB aren't common yet. Shoot..I really couldn't find them on newegg.04:30
tank-man2x32gig sdhc is more than any ipod touch04:31
sistotank-man: are you talking about the n800?04:31
LinuxHack3rtank-man: Yes it far...but show me a link and a price. Then we'll talk.04:31
tank-manyes the n800 has 2 sd slots04:32
LinuxHack3rtank-man: sisto Seriously...why drop the sd slots, and only get 1? What was nokia thinking?04:32
sistoi really appreciate the keyboard on the n810.... so much as to sacrifice the advantage of having 2 sd slots04:33
LinuxHack3rsisto: I know...but 2 slots would be neat.04:33
sistobut i would appreciate 2 sd slots instead of 104:33
sistothey also dropped fm radio :(04:34
LinuxHack3rThey had fm radio? Perhaps I should have gotten an 800. But I know I'll be happy with this one.04:35
sistoon the plus side, they reduced the size04:35
LinuxHack3rsisto: That's cool. I've looked for a cool cool case...but can't find one. I like cases.04:36
sistoand added the slide keyboard and gps04:36
LinuxHack3rFair trade.04:36
sistodropped fm added gps04:36
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sistofair with me04:36
LinuxHack3rBut fm would have been cool.04:36
sistoand i bet it wouldn't have increased the size04:37
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sistolook at the e71... it has everything04:37
sistoand is smaller than the n81004:37
sistobut has more features04:37
sistogps, fm radio, wifi, bluetooth, qwerty keybord04:38
sistokeyboard doesn't slide though and it doesn't have a touchscreen04:38
sistoalso it's symbian instead of linux04:38
sistooh! it's also a phone04:38
LinuxHack3rI don't like phones that try to do other things though.04:39
LinuxHack3rThat should work...shouldn't it04:39
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sistothe e71 is gorgeous though:
LinuxHack3rI saw looks nice. l8r time.04:41
sistoLinuxHack3r: interesting... i use password safe... i should migrate to that one because it works on the n81004:42
sistoLinuxHack3r: l8r04:42
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sistocanole isn't open source :( i thought it was04:47
sistooh well.. i guess i'll have to use it as is04:48
GAN800It's becoming open04:54
GAN800Should be any time now.04:54
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sistoGAN800: ah ok05:17
sistothx for the tip05:17
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jgwongHmm, I'm trying to run a script via alarmd05:45
jgwongA python script05:45
jgwongIt calls play-sound via os.system05:45
jgwongBut it doesn't sound at all05:45
jgwongIt works correctly when called via command line, but it doesn't seem to work when it's called via alarmd05:46
jgwongDoes anybody have a clue why is this?05:46
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pupnikhey doc|home , ever see 'saxondale'09:17
pupnikfunny trailer
doc|homepupnik: nope, but I do remember them09:17
doc|homefrom the fast show09:17
pupnikwhat is that09:17
doc|homethat's a classic comedy if ever there was one09:17
pupnikok i'll search09:17
pupnikwow never saw that before09:19
qwerty12Stskeeps, ping09:20
RST38hqwerty,pupnik: moo all09:20
qwerty12hey RST38h09:20
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AStorm -  can we have this?09:40
* pupnik salutes 09:40
AStormI think it'd be pure win09:40
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qwerty12On a tablet?09:40
* qwerty12 smacks himself09:40
qwerty12I guess you do mean on a tablet.09:40
pupnikqwhy is it faster than swap09:40
AStormbecause it's in ram09:41
AStormit's ram compression09:41
AStormactually, a compressed filesystem similar to based on ramfs09:41
AStormwhich you can use as a swap device09:42
AStormand Linux is fairly smart to swap stuff into that09:42
AStormand you can have more than one swap device already, with priorities set09:42
AStormso it may swap to compressed area first, then if it's not enough, to disk (possibly compressed too - we need a compressed filesystem for a swap file :> )09:43
AStormthe only downside there might be is thrashing in ram ;P shouldn't be too noticeable09:44
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persiaIt really depends on the use case.  If you're expecting to regularly need swap, compcache *really* speeds things up.  If you happen to be able to operate within your memory, there's a slight slowdown.  If I recall correctly, in Ubuntu it was determined to apply compcache if the system memory was less than 256MB.09:45
AStormwhat slowdown?09:46
persiaAStorm, mostly compression costs, as I understand it.09:46
AStormif it's not used, it shouldn't slow things down...09:46
AStormnah, disk cache09:46
AStormthat may cause slowdown - you'll lose a bit of it09:47
persiadisk cache doesn't get swapped :)09:47
AStormthe problem is that you now have less09:47
AStormbecause part of memory is taken by compcache09:47
persiaI beleive the Ubuntu implementation was to split the memory 50/50, so if you use 100 MB on a 128MB device without compcache, it's normal, and with compcache, you've 36MB compressed, so you pay the computational cost of compressing that data.09:48
AStormon n8x0, it might help...09:48
AStormtoo much IMO09:48
persiaThose are 128MB, right?09:48
AStormI'd use 3/4:1/4 myself09:48
AStormno, 256 MB09:48
AStormI do sometimes get into swap there09:48
AStormand that is horrible, considering how slow flash is09:48
persiaheh.  Yeah.  swap-on-flash is just bad, any way you look at it.09:49
AStormwell, if we had a compressed filesystem for mmc... it would speed up swapping many times09:49
AStormor a variant - compressed swap file support09:49
AStormI'll check if there's such a kernel patch09:49
persiaI'd think a compressed filesystem would be cleaner: fewer syscalls.09:50
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AStormthere are compressed filesystems - and no, it won't be cleaner by any stretch of the word09:51
AStormyou'll throw in many writes to the fs09:52
AStormthen it will compress them block by block09:52
AStormand recompress trailing block(s) as you write more09:52
persiaOh, right.  It needs something special.  I was confused by "swapfile".  I think best solution would just be a compressed swap partition.09:52
AStormor even indeed any compressed swap09:53
persiaGiven the compression in compcache is designed for swap, if it doesn't exist, it oughtn't be too hard to hack.09:53
AStormsomeone did that already I think09:53
AStormyes, it should09:53
AStormthe problem is not compression itself09:53
AStormit's the need for kernel modification - and swap is not a filesystem09:54
AStormhmm, well09:55
AStormif we had compcache on tmpfs equivalent... that is swappable...09:55
AStormindirection indeed, but would work09:55
persiaThat's just tangled.09:55
persiacompcache lives in real memory.09:56
AStormyou'd swap compcache to swap09:56
AStormyes it does09:56
AStormnow, assume compcache is swappable to disk09:56
AStormwhat do we get?09:56
AStormthe trick would be marking it to get always swapped out09:57
AStormI don't know how that is to be done09:57
persiaWouldn't it be easier just to define a compressed swap module?09:57
persiaThere's some history of work on that.09:57
AStormmodule? swap is part of vm09:57
AStormgimme a module, I want it09:58
* persia looks for something more concrete than a presentation09:58
persia is a hint, at least09:58
AStormthat presentation I noticed was adding a layer on top of MTD09:58
AStormthis is a lie09:58
AStormit's much like putting a swapfile on a compressed filesystem09:58
AStormI can do that already w/o hacks.09:58
AStorm(using btrfs)09:59
AStormthe idea is to move compression above swap09:59
AStormand in this paper, it's below swap09:59
persiaRight.  The paper was more that someone is thinking about it: I agree that implementation leaves a fair bit to be desired.09:59
AStormthinking is good - code is better10:00
AStormnow, I don't feel like hacking Linux VM subsystem10:00
AStormespecially free memory estimator10:00
AStormfor now, we can live with "compressed fs" overhead10:01
AStormshould still be a major performance win10:01
AStormbut to do that, I need a compressed filesystem that will hold a swapfile10:02
persiaDepends on the use case.  I tend to carry a Zaurus, so 256MB sounds like a lot to me, and I'm not sure I'd want to run enough to fill it.10:02
AStormit's not a lot10:02
AStormit's like, 3 apps10:03
AStormsay: run canola, browser and a bunch of terminal windows, plus standard hildon desktop10:03
AStormand you'll hit swap10:03
AStormeven easier if you use any of: maemopad+, xournal (esp. xournal which is horribly stupid in its memory use)10:05
AStormit indeed is not too hard to overload these 256 MB10:06
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AStormso, can I have compcache built for maemo? :>10:07
AStorm(yeah, I know the next device will have 512 MB)10:08
persiaIt's just a kernel recompile, isn't it?10:08
AStormnot even that10:08
AStormjust a module built10:08
AStormbut I don't have the toolchain on me right now10:08
AStorm and build that10:09
AStormbonus if packaged for maemo10:09
AStormnot sure if it'll build vs 2.6.22 - it might10:10
AStormor might need a bunch of mods10:11
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AStorm*2.6.21 even10:14
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persiaActually, looking at compcache, there's no reason to look at compressed swap separately.10:15
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persiaFrom what I understand, it doesn't uncompress when going from swap-on-ram to swap-on-disk, so you get compressed-swap-on-disk as a side benefit.10:16
AStormno, you don't10:16
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AStormit looks like a ramdisk, mlocked10:16
AStormotherwise it could be swapped away10:17
AStormthus, made useless10:17
persiaRight, but what happens when it gets full?  From what I understand, the kernel preferentially uses compcache, and then falls back to swap-on-disk.10:17
AStormand it's decompressed.10:17
persiaYou're suggesting that there's a decompress step happening there?10:17
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AStormit's being read into ram, then swapped to the other swap device10:18
AStormhow would you read it otherwise? some binary copy hack?10:18
AStormthat wouldn't work on compressed or discontiguous filesystems...10:18
AStormunless there's an api to do so, maybe vmsplice10:19
AStormstill, it's on FS level10:19
AStormand I'm fairly certain compcache will decompress when being read from10:19
AStorm(actually, ramzdisk)10:19
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* AStorm is building the cross toolchain10:24
AStormscratchbox = junk10:24
AStormtried to build in there, it horribly failed...10:25
persiaBuild in qemu: pretend it's native :)10:25
persiaOr just build native.10:25
AStorm(outside of apt)10:25
AStormbuild native? a kernel? wait a few years till it finishes?10:25
AStormqemu would be possible, if it worked10:26
AStormand I had a full system in here10:26
persiaqemu ought work, or at least is does for me.10:26
AStorm(copying that shouldn't be hard - but I'd need a working qemu-arm)10:26
persiaI'm using 0.9.1 with success.10:27
AStormit has to simulate maemo CPU.10:28
persiaAccording to it's possible to build a kernel in just a few hours.  I'd guess maybe 15 on an Nx0, although I may be mistaken.10:28
AStormactually, armv6 with vfp10:28
persiaAh, that's trickier.10:28
AStormotherwise I'd still need a cross toolchain somewhere10:28
AStorm(to, say, build a kernel for it)10:28
AStormPoky Linux might work... again10:29
persiaClosest I can find for compressed swap is ttp:// which is the layered approach.10:30
AStormand on top of MTD.10:32
AStormI want it on an MMC10:32
AStorm(actually, SDHC, but you know, a normal block device)10:32
AStormnow building gcc-stage1... :)10:33
* AStorm likes his Core2 Duo10:33
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AStormpersia: apparently there is n8x0 support in qemu HEAD...10:34
persiaAStorm, Probably needs testing :)10:34
AStormexcept I don't have a proper ebuild for that ;P10:35
AStormI guess it's not in 0.9.110:35
Meiz_n810good morning everyone10:39
helldoes suspend to ram work for anybody?10:45
hellmy 810 sleeps for second, then wake up, and keys does not work after this.10:46
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AStormsuspend to ram? we have it?10:47
AStormI do not recall the default setup using STR10:47
AStormit only did a standard sleep10:48
hell/sys/proc/state says "yes, we have" :-)10:48
AStorm(which as it is is also very efficient)10:48
AStormthen it should also say it's not used ;P10:48
AStormI guess 2.6.21-omap has enough bugs as it is10:48
qwerty12 or
AStormnot even talking about s2ram10:49
AStormqwerty12: note - he's talking about n81010:49
qwerty12AStorm, yes, s2ram = suspend to ram10:49
AStormyes I know10:49
AStormand I guess it's buggy as hell10:49
AStormand not used by default maemo10:49
AStormI also guess it will be especially buggy with n81010:50
hellAStorm: i think, if it not possible, developers will simply disble it in kernel conf.10:50
AStormit is possible10:51
AStormbut I guess buggy10:51
AStormhell: checked that page yet?10:51
AStormworth a shot10:51
qwerty12Incidentally, an internal program from nokia has references to s2ram:
AStormguess why they didn't enable it...10:52
qwerty12It didn't work well? :P :)10:52
AStormI guess it's mostly unnecessary10:52
AStormdoesn't buy you much on armel10:53
AStormespecially OMAP210:53
AStormCPU is halted anyway with cpufreq...10:53
AStormwifi when not used is quiet too10:53
AStormsame with bluetooth10:53
AStormram is still powered in S2ram10:54
qwerty12ah, thanks :)10:54
AStormusb hub is also energy efficient10:54
AStormyou might get a tiny bit of power saving thanks to all the timers being off10:55
AStorm(as tickless system still fires them every so often - rarely though)10:55
hellAStorm: i will charge my n810 every day. Or switch it off.10:55
Vulcanisswitching it off10:55
Vulcanisis like10:55
AStormso? leaving it running makes it go 10 days10:55
Vulcanis3 days worth10:55
Vulcanisof leaving it on and screen off10:55
AStormassuming you're not connected to wifi10:56
AStormon wifi, it's 5 days10:56
hellone day for me)10:56
AStormif it's not throwing data around (e.g. IRC running)10:56
Vulcanisdepends on how fast it searches, astorm10:56
AStormhell: you must have some idiot app pinging10:56
AStormor power saving disabled (blame your wifi router)10:56
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AStormw/o wifi power saving, it's indeed a day10:57
AStormthat's why it's there ;P10:57
AStormmight as well disconnect instead of s2ram10:57
RST38hheya, AStorm10:57
hellAStorm: maybe. But i want to simply press power, and wake up device, when i need it, how i doing with my laptop.10:57
AStormyou can touch the screen to have it going10:57
Vulcanispower button tap + center button10:58
AStormanother power sucker might be not having cpufreq in any powersaving mode10:58
Vulcanisto wake it up10:58
Vulcanispowerbutton tap + center button10:58
Vulcanisits that easy!10:58
AStormin performance mode, it'll eat battery in a day10:58
AStormset to ondemand or conservative10:59
AStorm(I recommend ondemand with minor sysfs setting tuning - set the threshold to 50 instead of default 80)10:59
AStormthe default is ondemand11:00
AStormyou can also toggle the powersave_bias flag to 111:00
AStormnot that it helps much if any11:00
hellAStorm: i know, what i can do. But i don't want to do this every time, check apps, powersaving, etc. I just want to sleeps my device by one button, and wake up it in consistent state, that's all.11:00
Vulcanispowerbutton tap + center button11:01
Vulcanisits that easy!11:01
hellwhat center button, on joystick?11:01
AStormor tap the screen for "ok"11:01
Vulcanisthey have joysticks now? Awesome!11:01
AStormhell: you broke your system still...11:02
Vulcanisoh, shit.  You might have to slide it open to wake it up, too.  *sighs* Dpad should be on the faceplate of the n81011:02
AStormwell, if we had a mode to drop all connections at once while locking, that would be what hell wants11:02
AStormassuming he didn't break cpufreq11:02
Vulcanisthat takes a few more button presses11:02
AStormor has a stupid app gobbling CPU11:02
Vulcanispower button tap11:02
Vulcanispowerbutton tap11:03
AStormyes, offline mode11:03
AStormalso, you can script that I think11:03
AStormwith that funny app...11:03
AStormwhat was it called...11:03
helloffline mode only switch off radio, or what?11:03
AStormradio and bluetooth11:04
AStorm*wifi and bluetooth ofc11:04
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hellso, browser with flash will still discharge my battery.11:04
AStormsure, it will11:04
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AStormso "don't do that"11:05
hellthere are one simply way to do, what i want - it's suspend.11:05
AStormalternatively, you might want to fix s2ram11:05
AStormhave fun packaging 2.6.28-omap11:05
AStormtell us when you do (and the new wifi driver)11:05
JaffaMorning, all11:05
hellyeah, that what i want to hear, "you can't do it now" :-)11:05
AStormyou can11:06
AStormif you get your kernel fixed11:06
hellas user, i can't)11:06
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AStormyou can try11:06
AStormnot sure if it'll live11:06
AStormtry that n800-s2ram script, it does a bit of additional magic11:06
Jaffadobb: as-in, you can't click on anything in it?11:07
Jaffas/it/the toolbox/11:08
infobotJaffa meant: dobb: as-in, you can't click on anything in the toolbox?11:08
AStormI'd want it running not on lock screen...11:08
AStormbecause I use that for playing media11:08
AStormmaybe on lock device or something else... or a simple click on icon11:09
AStormhey, where does dpkg --unpack unpack the deb to?11:11
gnutonAStorm: it should unpack it in the current dir11:12
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zetheroohas anyone been able to get tomtom working on the N810 ?11:13
AStormgnuton: no11:13
AStormit puts in onto /11:13
AStormlike install11:13
gnutonAStorm: mm ok then I didn't remember it11:14
AStormok, I want to take a peek into the .deb11:14
AStormzetheroo: might be hard - Tomtom devices are MIPS not ARM11:14
persiaAStorm, Try `dpkg -x foo.deb FOO && dpkg -e foo.deb FOO`11:14
zetherooAStorm: I got it working on my Nokia N95  .... which is running Symbian11:15
AStormzetheroo: tell me how11:16
AStormis it a standard tomtom as found on their devices, or some other?11:16
Macer_have to get root on my g1 before i lose it11:16
Macer_ok... ive used linux for a long time and always wondered... wtf is the foo shit?11:17
zetherooAStorm: I downloaded Tomtom and installed a file called tomtom.sisx ... then copied a folder into my root area ...11:17
AStormtomtom.sisx? what is that and from where?11:18
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hellzetheroo: i think, answer will 'No, until TomTom compiles it for Maemo".11:18
hellor Nokia build symbian emulator for NXXX11:19
AStormheh, depends11:19
AStormsymbian simulation shouldn't be that hard...11:19
zetherooAStorm: I downloaded it from a torrent ..11:19
zetherooits works great11:19
AStormit would be symbian simulation for linux actually11:19
AStormok, so it's some kind of hacked software or something?11:19
AStormI need to know what was it hacked from11:20
AStormsymbian emulation could be done the Wine way...11:20
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AStormah, right, Tomtom Mobile11:20
Macer_the wine way?11:21
hellyeah, drink and sim)11:21
Macer_nokia has to totally revamp symbian11:21
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hellAStorm: there are troubles with symbian apps across nokia phones, what will happens with sims..11:22
zetherooanyhow i was just hoping that there was a way to get this working on my N810 ..11:24
AStormnow it's tomtom symbian11:24
AStormuhm, tomtom navigator11:24
zetherooas it has such a nice screen11:24
AStormzetheroo: not now11:24
AStormwe don't have a symbian emulator11:24
zetheroook ...11:24
AStormactually, prodding tomtom to offer a variant could work11:24
AStormbecause for them it's a rebuild away...11:25
AStormthey have one for Linux MIPS already11:25
AStormwe could try to reverse Symbian SDK too, but it would hell of a job11:26
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AStormthere's no emulator for Linux as far as I can see11:28
AStormthere is one for windows...11:28
AStormSymbian is all closed, bound and very not conducive to development too11:29
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zetheroowhat other GPS apps will work in Maemo?11:31
suihkulokkitomtom navigators run on arm linux, one hack them to work on tablets :P11:31
AStorm"will become open source in the first half of 2009."11:31
AStormsuihkulokki: oh really? they do?11:32
AStormif it works on arm linux, no hack is needed11:32
AStormwhere is that mentioned I mean.11:32
AStormI know, they do work on WinMobile (wine anyone? :P) and Symbian11:33
AStormoh wait...11:33
AStormsome of their devices use ARM...11:34
AStormexcept that uses linux framebuffer11:34
AStorm hmmmhmmhmm11:35
AStormI say - possible, but not necessarily integrable11:35
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AStormeven emulating that hardware should be easy11:36
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AStormarm920 code can be ran directly, so we get to: simulate framebuffer, touchscreen, gps via serial port and provide dummy accel data.11:40
AStormas it's linux... we know the API to simulate11:43
* AStorm smells a new topic of engineering degree ;P11:43
AStormgps via serial means writing a forwarder to gpsd11:45
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AStormhmm, so, need: LD_PRELOAD for /dev/ttyS1, hmm11:47
AStormnot sure about touchscreen and framebuffer yet11:47
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AStormoh wait, it's probably built statically11:48
AStormhmm, will have to grab real calls then11:48
Stskeepsqwerty12: pong11:49
qwerty12Stskeeps, import-new-packages doesn't handle source packages that use an orig.tar.gz & a diff.tar.gz well. I fixed the python-gnome problem but it wont let me replace the original source packages saying that the checksum & size on my new orig.tar.gz is wrong.11:50
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Stskeepsqwerty12: sec, will go upstairs to a proper kbd11:50
AStormhmm, my cross glibc failed in a weird way...11:50
AStormas: unrecognized option '-meabi=4'11:50
AStormprobably a major bug :)11:51
AStormhmm, cross assembler wasn't built. Ok.11:53
AStormif it happens that TomTom software is not statically linked, we have our work cut out for us11:56
AStormas it will amount to a proper LD_PRELOAD (actually, after guessing the libc they use)11:56
qwerty12If it can be run on a zaurus: :)11:56
AStormif it is built statically, we get to provide fake devices somehow11:56
Stskeepsqwerty12: what's source package name?11:56
qwerty12Stskeeps, advanced-power11:57
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AStormqwerty12: more info on that please :)11:57
AStormthen we can make a port easily11:57
AStormOMAP2 can run ARM920 code11:57
Stskeepsqwerty12: do you use dpkg-buildpackage -sd or -sa?11:57
Stskeepssa means force inclusion of new source, sd means only the diff11:58
AStormqwerty12: obviously, it'd be much nicer if we could get it to run in a window (fake fb, touchscreen)11:58
qwerty12AStorm, I really don't have any :). All I know is that you can catch the guy who made the video on itt : (speculatrix)11:58
qwerty12Stskeeps, ahh, I've been using sa11:58
AStormStskeeps: not much info there11:59
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AStormI guess they had the fb init in 320x24012:00
AStormhopefully it uses OSS for audio12:01
AStormthen we could simulate the WM chip ;P12:01
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thopiekarI started the mer vdi v.6 but where are the basics? even the maemo-xterm?12:02
* johnx wanders by12:02
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Stskeepsthopiekar: well one of the first sentences say "don't expect too much" :) we have osso-xterm in 0.712:02
Stskeepsor you can ctrl-alt-f1 and log in as root, dhclient eth0, apt-get update, apt-get install osso-xterm, reboot12:03
Stskeeps0.7 will be out 1. feb12:03
Stskeepsmorning jott12:03
thopiekarStskeeps: hehe thanks12:04
johnxnow is the season of having house guests it appears12:04
qwerty12Stskeeps, - -sd is no go.12:05
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Stskeepsqwerty12: fair enough, deleting source package for you then12:05
bongoctrl-alt-f1 doesn't work in virtualbox12:06
Stskeepsbongo: okay, it does on windows :P12:06
AStormhmm, now I can't find out how the tomtom app is linked12:06
johnxbongo, can you try chvt 112:07
AStormI'll try when I get back home12:07
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AStormif it's dynamically linked, it's an exercise in LD_PRELOAD.12:07
Stskeepsbongo: try hostkey alt f112:07
AStorm(and simulating linux framebuffer and touchscreen in a window)12:08
bongojohnx: i don't understand12:08
Stskeepsor just hostkey f1 (right ctrl and f1 probably)12:08
bongosts: ok, i'll try12:08
Meiz_n810bongo: right ctrl won't work if it's your host key12:08
StskeepsMeiz_n810: left ctrl won't work if you're on linux :)12:08
Meiz_n810at least it didn't work in my virtbox12:08
Stskeepsright ctrl + f1 seems to do the trick12:08
bongomeiz: i know that12:08
AStormthey use mmapped sound, even better12:09
bongook, thx guys12:09
AStormwith a funny driver, but opensource12:09
AStormso, can emulate that too12:09
johnxyou should be able to run chvt 1 from an x terminal to switch vts12:09
bongothe best way is to wait for 0.712:09
qwerty12Well, if AStorm succeeds in his mission, then at least we'll have a proper navigation program :P12:09
johnxheh...just not one that's legal to distribute :P12:10
bongojohnx, i see12:10
AStormjohnx: why not?12:10
qwerty12johnx, ahha, it's never stopped me before :P12:11
AStormas long as you don't distribute the licence file, you're fine :P12:11
AStormobviously, it will be useless without it12:11
johnxAStorm, thin ice :P12:11
AStormso, you still get to buy some tomtom app12:11
AStormwell, I won't be hacking the app itself...12:11
AStormjust writing a thin emulation layer12:12
Stskeepsqwerty12: did i say the package was removed btw?12:12
Stskeeps(bit senile in the mornings)12:12
qwerty12Stskeeps, now you just did :)12:12
johnxAStorm, right but you can't distribute the navigation program :P12:12
qwerty12Do tomtom ship updates for their devices? /me hoping it's something you can mount using mtdblock12:13
AStormjohnx: so?12:14
AStormqwerty12: yes12:14
AStormand you can mount it over USB too12:14
johnxAStorm, just saying *shrug*12:14
qwerty12AStorm, thanks12:14
AStormas a normal USB device (I own a TomTom GO 310)12:14
AStormdoes our gpsd have an NMEA i/o?12:15
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AStormone emulation down, three to go :)12:16
StskeepsAStorm: if you discover some way to emulate a framebuffer device that could be interesting for emulating davlik in :P12:17
Stskeepsor wtf it's name is :P12:17
AStormpity I can't see if it's dynamically linked12:17
johnxStskeeps, finish your coffee :P12:17
AStormStskeeps: API is open, so?12:17
Stskeepsjohnx: ok.. :P12:17
AStormit's normal writes to /dev/fb12:17
AStormusing Linux 2.6 format12:18
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AStormwe could abuse qemu too... :>12:18
AStormarmel on armel could be made fast12:19
persiakvm for armel?12:19
AStormnot exactly kvm12:20
AStormjust the dosbox way12:20
AStormor virtualbox, if you will12:21
AStormbasically, have a JIT - actually only have to emulate hardware access12:21
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Guest3571hi guys! I have problem. Is it possible for anyone12:23
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Guest3571to paste me his repository of easy debian?12:23
AStormpersia: so, more like kqemu for armel12:23
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persiaAStorm, That's precisely the terms I just gave Google :)12:24
AStormI smell win.12:24
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bongobah :D12:25
AStormah, cheated12:25
bongoto hell ....12:25
AStormit only links to i386 build12:25
JaffaARM JIT on armel would be fantastic for RISC OS emulation, too12:26
Stskeepsbongo: you can probably trick it going into console by killing hildon-desktop from the load applet12:26
AStormJaffa: armel jit actually, arm needs a lot of byteswapping12:26
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bongosts: nice idea12:27
JaffaAStorm: ah, true12:27
Jake42-2what is this all about???? Running ubuntu on maemo???12:27
JaffaJake42-2: Mer is Maemo rebuilt using a base of Ubuntu Jaunty.12:27
Jake42-2So the N810 instead of maemo it boots with mer???12:28
JaffaAStorm/persia are talking about emulating the h/w TomTom expects12:28
AStormhmmmh, we'd need KVM for armel12:28
JaffaJake42-2: Indeed. - not yet ready for end-users.12:28
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AStormor kqemu12:28
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* Stslaptop schedules another trip to his server.12:28
persiaJaffa, Right.  We got distracted :)12:28
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Jake42-2The easy debian uses thes same repositories as ubuntu?12:30
AStormso, I think it should be easier to hackemulate it for now instead of writing kvm support12:30
AStorm(w/o kvm, it'll be far too slow)12:30
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Jake42-2I want to use a website on N8x012:33
Jake42-2Which is the native resolution in order12:33
Jake42-2to run it in full screen12:33
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Jake42-2so the whole frame should be12:33
AStorm(or close - note that so many sites ignore a possible scrollbar)12:33
Jake42-2yes , that's why I am asking12:34
AStormso, more like 750 width, 300 height12:34
Jake42-2ok about this12:34
Jake42-2have you ever used easy debian>12:34
Jake42-2too bad...12:36
Jake42-2what ever...12:36
Jake42-2about the previous12:36
Jake42-2with Mer12:36
Jake42-2what is it exactly?12:36
Jake42-2Is it an emulator of OS12:36
Jake42-2inside the maemo12:37
Jake42-2or it can boot directly instead of maemo?12:37
timoph"Mer is a new Linux operating system, built upon a thin base of Ubuntu Jaunty" quote from the wiki page12:38
lcukAStorm, have you sorted your identification lookup?12:38
Stslaptoptimoph: i suspect minimal might be more in order, but yes, it is built on top of ubuntu jaunty12:39
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AStormlcuk: what lookup? you mean for handwriting?12:39
AStormhash table proved fast after I fixed the hash12:40
lcukcool, good enough12:40
Jake42-2timoph, may I use it in N8x0 ?12:40
AStormit's designed for that12:40
AStormbut it's in development still12:40
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AStormI think you can use that new mobile ubuntu12:41
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AStormand probably normal debian for armel too12:41
lcukJake42-2, short answer, yes, long answer - you should personally avoid it12:41
JaffaStslaptop: don't want to diminish the apt-gettiness of everything else in Jaunty12:41
lcukmorning khertan \o12:41
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AStormJake42-2: it's not ready for normal use yet12:43
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AStormJaunty... but many things won't work12:45
AStormbetter wait until Mer is ready.12:45
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Jake42-2I think I should12:47
AStormuse Enter key less? ;)12:47
Jake42-2flash the N810, how may I do it safely?12:48
AStormwith Nokia's flasher app I guess (not the windows one)12:48
AStormyou can use it to read the current flash state too12:49
infobotflashing is, like,
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Jake42-2I want to delete everything in maemo and12:51
Jake42-2set the N81012:51
Jake42-2to his initial condition12:51
Jake42-2as like when I bought it....12:51
lcukJake42-2, what course are you doing at uni12:51
Jake42-2with flash would I be able to do this?12:51
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AStormyes, you will12:52
AStormflashing overwrites everything12:52
Jake42-2lcuk, Electronic Health record12:53
Jake42-2the course is named Electronic Health12:53
lcukJake42-2, become friends with people doing computer science :)12:53
Jake42-2(I study computer science.... Informatics Engineering)12:54
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* AStorm feels his future degree downgraded12:55
AStormthat's not even mentioning the regression12:55
AStormuhm, recession12:56
Jake42-2I don't understand you12:56
AStormthat's exactly what I mean12:57
lcukAStorm, for now i like my downsized computer :)12:57
Stslaptoplcuk: your primary job function is now using an abacus for VB coding?12:58
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AStormlcuk: what about being downsized yourself?12:59
AStorm(I hate that euphemism)12:59
AStormca't they just all it "being fired" as it shul?12:59
lcuki mean coming from intel super ghz12:59
JaffaThere's a difference between being "fired" and being made "redundant"13:03
* Stslaptop ponders idly about qgil's comment on non-kernel components13:03
Stslaptopeither he didn't see we found the things about phone&SMS yet or he's teasing us :P13:03
JaffaMaybe he meant the Fremantle UI widgets (as can be seen in mer ;-))13:04
JaffaWhat phone & SMS bits?13:04
StslaptopJaffa: MCE headers has stuff about SMS&phone calls and such13:04
Stslaptopthink yerga posted them13:04
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Stslaptop#define MCE_CALL_STATE_CELLULAR"cellular" for instance13:05
AStormJaffa: uhm, we're all redundant13:05
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AStorm*everyone* can be replaced13:06
StslaptopAStorm: with more or less trouble yes13:06
lcukeven steve jobs?13:06
AStormthe problem is - is the too much redundancy in my chosen line of work ;P13:06
JaffaStslaptop: Yep, saw that one. Missed the stuff about SMS, though13:06
* johnx can't be replaced :)13:06
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AStormjohnx: you can13:06
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AStormby someone who is cheaper (talking work)13:06
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JaffaAStorm: everyone can be replaced ("the cemetery is full of indispensible people", however your company can't make a person redundant (under UK Law) and then keep the position/role, but fill it with someone else)13:07
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StslaptopJaffa: also #define MCE_EMERGENCY_CALL"emergency" is interesting13:07
AStormJaffa: they can, sure13:07
Stslaptopbecause that's something you definately don't find in VoIP13:07
AStormJaffa: they can easily fire you with the full package and honors13:07
johnxStslaptop, depends on the laws in the country13:07
AStorm"you weren't cheap enough"13:08
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JaffaAStorm: Not under UK Employment law they can't. They can "fire" you, but that's not being made "redundant". And there has to be grounds for dismissal in that case, otherwise you can go to an Employment Tribunal.13:08
Stslaptopah, there it was13:08
Stslaptoplocalization strings for maemo-af-desktop13:08
Stslaptop# Incoming event text field item. where %d is the amount of SMS threads13:08
Stslaptopmsgid "tana_fi_sms_multiple"13:08
Stslaptopmsgstr "%d SMS messages"13:08
AStormJaffa: there are - you didn't accept wage reduction13:08
JaffaAStorm: are you trolling, or just trying to be funny?13:08
AStormthey *will* win13:08
JaffaI emphasise "trying"13:09
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AStormso, now, they can try to get your wage reduced13:09
AStormthe trick is if you'll accept it13:09
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AStormeither way, you're screwed13:09
* lcuk yawns13:10
AStormas long as you're above minimal wage, of course13:10
* AStorm should lecture hope crushing13:11
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* lcuk curses integer only font scaling13:12
Jake42-2johnx, does the repositories of Debian fit on easy debian???13:12
Jake42-2all of them?13:13
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johnxthe repository will "work" but installing a different kernel in easy debian won't do anything13:14
Jake42-2I need the php...13:16
Jake42-2to work13:16
Jake42-2until now13:16
Jake42-2my source.list13:16
Jake42-2has only 2 tupples13:16
Jake42-2would you mind to paste your repository?13:16
johnxI don't use debian13:17
johnxI use ubuntu13:17
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Jake42-2on N810?13:17
Jake42-2with MER?13:18
Jake42-2is it stable?13:18
Jake42-2(because some guys told that isn't)13:18
Meizirkkiit's alpha stage13:18
johnxit's stable but it doesn't do much13:18
Jake42-2(so not 100% stable)13:18
lcuknobody said it wasnt stable, they will have said its incomplete and not ready for novices yet :)13:18
Jake42-2can you try to install LAMP ?13:18
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johnxJaffa, why don't you grab the mer virtualbox image and try it. I'm making pumpkin pie right now13:19
Stslaptopmm pumpkin pie13:19
johnxStslaptop, i'll email some to you13:20
johnxsorry, Jaffa that last comment was to Jake42-213:20
johnx<- fails at using tab13:20
lcukmmmmm johnx, your ideas intrigue me and I wish to sign up for your newsletter.13:20
johnxlcuk, on pumpkin pie or mer? :P13:21
Jake42-2johnx right know I am flashing13:21
lcukmer running on pumkin pie13:21
Jake42-2right know...13:21
lcukput it away13:21
Jake42-2mer is quicker than easy debian?13:23
Jake42-2(ubuntu +mer )13:24
johnxJake42-2, about the same for what you're doing13:24
Jake42-2at least I would have the packages from debian13:24
Jake42-2which distro do you have?13:25
Jake42-2(or the 9.04?)13:25
lcukJake42-2, have your classmates got the same assignment as you?13:25
johnxmer is based on ubuntu 9.04.13:25
Jake42-2lcuk,  no I have the most difficult13:25
Jake42-2I am at 95% of accomplishing it13:26
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Jake42-2the rest 95% is the nokia-part13:26
Jake42-2*rest 5%13:26
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lcukwhy? nokia did their part and supplied the hardware13:26
Jake42-2the php5-mysql part13:27
Jake42-2but the repository is deb hardy universe13:27
Jake42-2I don't have hardy on easy....13:27
Jake42-2it is deblet13:28
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johnxhardy != debian13:29
Jake42-2yes I know that :(13:31
Jake42-2but the "format" it is the same..13:31
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johnxif you google debian sources.list there are examples13:32
Jake42-2I am on it13:32
Jake42-2but I have one more problem13:32
Jake42-2I am also on debian.pacages13:32
Jake42-2at the textbox of search13:33
Jake42-2I put apache213:33
Jake42-2select the etch distro13:33
Jake42-2now how am I supposed to see which url I need to add on my source.list ?13:33
johnxyou only need one url in sources.list13:34
johnxand the latest easy debian turn edition should have a fine sources.list13:34
Jake42-2last night13:35
Jake42-2I installed13:35
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Jake42-2the easy debian13:35
Jake42-2but still the source.list is empty13:35
johnxwhich version?13:35
johnxwhich post did you get it from? link?13:35
Jake42-2I think it is the turbo one)13:35
Jake42-2this one13:35
Jake42-2that's why I asked someone to paste his repo13:36
johnxdeb etch main contrib non-free13:37
Jake42-2this one only should be fine for the source.list?13:39
RST38hheya, johnx13:39
johnxJake42-2, yes13:39
johnxRST38h, hey13:39
Jake42-2I will keep it in mind (file)13:40
Jake42-2but the link of easy debian is it right?13:40
johnxstrange that it's blank13:41
Jake42-2can you suppose13:42
Jake42-2any tutorial about mer and ubuntu13:42
Jake42-2(just in case to use the right one)13:42
infobotmethinks mer is
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Jake42-2ok I wait until flashing is over13:46
Jake42-2and I will try again13:46
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lcukx41gah @ getting this working13:54
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Jake42-2which is the difference between the N810 and the wimax edition14:01
mavhcwimax chip, aerial, software?14:02
lcukx41one is still for sale, the other isnt14:03
johnxorange print on keyboard vs blue print14:03
lcukx41wimax has a j.lo'esq bulge on its backside14:04
Jake42-2because I would say that in greece the wimax isn't available14:04
Jake42-2(many products aren't and I import them...)14:04
johnxit's not available now14:04
johnxit was only available in one city in the US14:04
lcukx41wonder if there is now a blackmarket for illicit wimax editions14:05
lcukx41manchester had/has a wimax net14:05
johnxlcuk, only in DC and Baltimore14:05
johnxprolly not compatible14:05
AStormyeah, wimax is not really a standard ;P14:06
AStormtoo many different frequencies14:06
johnxwimax is a standard the same way GSM is a standard :)14:06
johnxbut even wifi is different in different countries14:07
AStormnot a lot though14:07
AStormwith wimax, you have to cover 10 bands or so14:07
johnxtell that to someone taking their Italian N800 to Japan :)14:07
AStormit will work, but non-compliant14:07
AStormsome channel numbers are off limits14:08
johnxabout *half* of the channels are right out14:08
AStormactually, just load the proper modded module/regulatory daemon14:08
lcukx41academic anyway since the entire project has been mothballed for now14:08
AStormbecause wimax is bad technology ;P14:08
johnxheh. int the case of the n800 *don't* load the regulatory daemon :)14:09
AStormnot energy efficient enough14:09
johnxunlocks your MAC address too14:09
AStormwe need 4G for cell phones14:10
lcukx41we need longer wires14:10
johnxLTE? or wimax-based cell phones14:10
lcukx41hpsda based SIP PHONES :)14:11
lcukx41-stupid caps14:11
mavhcLTE is a retarded name14:11
dobJaffa: yes, that was the problem14:11
Meizirkkiwe need more @450 netwroks :P14:12
AStorm - this14:12
mavhcwe need broadcast tv to die to free up bandwidth14:12
Jaffadob: hmm, OK - I'll think. The new wiki layout as part of the revamp may solve the problem14:13
mavhcthere must be some countries with no broadcast tv that could have gigabit wifi14:13
lcukx41we should return to visible light communications14:13
AStormmavhc: good too, but impossible14:13
AStormlcukx41: har har14:13
AStormtoo short range14:13
lcukx41im serious some guy has reinvented a visible light router14:13
mavhcno impossible, in 20 years it'll be cheaper to send hdtv over ip than broadcast14:14
dobJaffa: I already fixed it :)14:14
Meizirkki@450 has really long range14:14
lcukx41and astorm, light travels a bloody long way, its only problem is pesky things get in its way14:14
lcukx41but thats solvable with larger amounts of power :)14:15
AStormyeah, "burn the trees"14:15
AStormah, and the buildings14:16
lcukx41i was thinking "No mr bond, i expect you to die" but if you wanna burn the forests be my guest14:16
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Jaffadob: ah, cool - how, OOI?14:18
JaffaAh, I see14:19
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stv01i've some problems with the latest rtcomm beta14:24
stv01everytime i want to connect to msn (haze) it breaks due to a network error14:25
stv01any ideas?14:25
stv01is there any debug output or a logfile?14:25
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johnxi had the same problem :/ I thought it was unreliable wifi in my case...but pidging worked14:28
johnxalso a note: recently MSN changed their protocol a bit and it broke pidgin on the desktop14:28
johnxnot sure if it was intentional or not or whether they reverted the change14:29
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stv01jeah i fixed it :)14:41
johnxreally? what was the trick?14:41
stv01a newer version of the libpurple0 was installed14:42
Stslaptopgod, there's nothing worse than replacing a power supply on a computer when your neck is hurting14:42
woglindeStslaptop hehe didnt you say you wont go to the office14:42
stv01perhaps just a incompability between the old and new version14:42
Stskeepswoglinde: nah, i found a trick so i could ssh into the lost machine :>14:42
Stskeepsbut i've had problems with my file server for months now, where Mer repository is14:43
johnxrandom crashes? increasing in frequency? definitely sounds like my power supply problem :/14:43
Stskeepsjohnx: random power cuts, electric noise, etc14:44
Stskeepsi decided it was time to not risk a 3-disk burnout :P14:44
Stskeepsit seems to be happy now, even with 150 less W14:44
johnxsame with mine14:44
johnxI went from a 250W that was stretched beyond its means to a 200W14:44
johnxnothing but happiness14:45
Stskeeps(i do have backups of my /export/home and such, but i would be pissed to risk the rest of the data..)14:45
Stskeepswhat does resolve to at your spots btw?14:45
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, probably be worse if your hands were broken.14:46
Stskeepsk, then it's moved, good14:46
* Stskeeps gets at setting up automatic rsync14:47
GeneralAntillesFuzzy-logic rice cookers aren't much good if you can't put them on the right setting. <_<14:48
* GeneralAntilles sighs at his over-cooked oats.14:49
tank-manisnt there just two settings on rice cookers? cook and keep warm14:50
GeneralAntillesOn cheap ones, yes.14:51
johnxlol. that's an overpriced cheap one :)14:51
Stslaptopjohnx: could you quickly test how fast it is?14:52
* johnx engages the time travel circuit on his rice cooker to escape 14:52
GeneralAntillesjohnx, it was under $100 in December14:52
johnxah, not bad then14:52
GeneralAntillesBut, eh, it cooks great rice.14:52
lcukGeneralAntilles, you need as well14:52
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johnxI just use my $30 to cook rice, but I remember there aren't many cheap ones in the US...14:53
johnxStslaptop, sure14:53
GeneralAntilleslcuk, I've got an out-of-print one from 1993.14:53
GeneralAntillesjohnx, I don't think I've had a more perfect batch of brown rice than the ones that come out of this thing.14:53
lcukthats why then, the instructions are out of date14:53
johnxStskeeps, I'm getting a lot of not found and forbidden from it...14:56
Stslaptopjohnx: hmmm.14:57
johnxalso: fighting with my various arm boxen right now...14:58
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johnxhmm...seems like when wifi powersavings and nm-applet are fighting a bit15:02
johnxinfobot, stab cx3110x in the face15:02
* infobot runs at cx3110x in the face with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut.15:02
Stskeepsjohnx: try now15:04
* johnx tests speed15:04
johnxahaha...coming up to ~50KB/s now that I poked at the other people on my network to stop torrenting stuff :)15:07
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johnxbetween 35KB/s and 50KB/s...15:08
Stslaptopwhat's your line max? :P15:08
Stslaptopanyhow, it's not speed that matters, it's stability :P15:08
johnxabout 500KB/s15:09
lcukx41can i change the powersave frequency to lower than the current?15:10
infobotpsm is probably Personal Security Manager for Mozilla, at  You don't need to restart mozilla as noted on that URL.  It also consumes 100% CPU unfortunately... lame piece of software. no longer works as of mozilla 0.7, or  needed for viewing of some login sites, i.e. yahoo. install by apt-get install mozilla-psm15:10
lcukx41infobot is shared isnt he15:11
lcukx41can we listall his triggers?15:11
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lcukx41list all ..15:17
GeneralAntillesUm, I dunno.15:17
GeneralAntillesDon't believe so.15:17
Stskeepsyou probably wouldn't want to15:17
lcukx41lol i know sts, thats why15:17
lcukx41but i guess some random ones will be funny15:17
lcukx41damn, he didnt remember that15:18
infobotit has been said that bacon is a filling substance which will make you even fatter than you already are... Take my advice, bacon is a food for the gods or for underweight models such as that McBeal chick...15:18
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, maemo is a development platform to create applications for Nokia 770 Internet Tablet and other maemo compliant handheld devices in the future.
infobot  See
infoboti heard infobot is me. I love abuse, feed me!, or an interactive bot that can learn all sorts of information (, or updated sources at, or a robot that doesn't know it should only speak when spoken to, or on fire, or awesome.15:21
* lcukx41 stops poking the bot and starts work on an ide15:21
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Stskeepswhat's a good Maemo file manager?15:22
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lcukx41my god the drums of rock band are annoying15:23
lcukx41i think i would prefer to listen to the dentist15:23
des^lol annoying ín what way?15:24
GeneralAntilleslcukx41, don't go to the dentist often, then? <_<15:24
lcukx41incessant drumming noise, it grates brain15:24
des^isnt that commonly known?15:25
lcukx41:) yes i normally dont allow eldest to play drums whilst im nearby but hes been good and helpful this mornin so i let him :)15:25
lcukx41its like a frikkin jackhammer though15:25
des^old or new kit?15:26
* lcukx41 ensures next house is soundproofed and has a garage for him to do this kind of stuff in15:26
des^just get real drums (more fun anyway)15:26
lcukx41des, wii drums - rock band te game, i actually would prefer him with real drums15:26
JaffaStskeeps: Did someone Hildonise Thunar?15:27
lcukx41but then he needs the rest of the band with him15:27
StskeepsJaffa: not sure15:27
JaffaStskeeps: Is osso-file-manager not OSS?15:27
StskeepsJaffa: not afaik15:27
des^I didnt like the rb1 drumkit15:27
Stskeepsdifferentiation :)15:27
* lcukx41 puts his hand up15:27
GeneralAntilleslcukx41, go pick up the guitar.15:28
lcukx41he has a guitar for guitar hero 315:28
lcukx41damn frustrating that they are not compatible15:29
GeneralAntillesJaffa, that would only be ironic if every application named osso weren't open source. ;)15:29
GeneralAntilleslcukx41, really? They are on the Xbox.15:29
lcukx41stupid ass proprietary patented copyrightable fuckwits of lawyers15:29
JaffaGeneralAntilles: indeed15:29
lcukx41yeah some are compatible with each other15:29
BULLElcukx41: if they were compatible you wouldnt have to buy a new one, and that would mean less profit!15:30
lcukx41and GeneralAntilles telling me the xbox stuff is compatible really helps with a whole library of wii software and stuff :)15:30
GeneralAntillesI gotta go in the other room to use the Wii.15:30
lcukx41bulle, they arent getting any money from us again because of this15:30
GeneralAntillesToo much effort.15:30
GeneralAntillesI need to get a monitor with component in.15:30
lcukx41i wouldv ended up buying most things for it15:30
lcukx41the trumpet addon wouldv been cool15:31
lcukx41and the wii triangle15:31
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lcukx41GeneralAntilles: wii controllers work from the other room :)15:33
GeneralAntillesTV's too small.15:33
* lcukx41 plays golf and baseball and stuff from the kitchen15:33
lcukx41excuses excuses :P15:34
Stskeepsanyone with a 770 around?15:34
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, yes, but I aint testing anything for you.15:35
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: ah, i just need to know what kind of DSP modules exist for it so we can put it on wishlist :P15:36
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Stskeepsr2d2rogers: ping15:43
JaffaX-Fade: ping15:43
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: do you reckon my 2009-02-01 date for starting the referendum is a good 'un? If so, part of the debate on -community should be the language15:46
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Stskeepshmm, where was that list of closed source things in Maemo?15:52
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MeizirkkiWicd and wifi-radar are working in Mer. i wonder why network-manager doesn't...15:54
Stskeepsmm, im generating new snapshot for myself atm too, so i'll be able to see15:57
MeizirkkiStskeeps: is this the list your are looking for?
Stskeepsah yes15:58
JaffaStskeeps: BTW, the second item in Sprints/0.7 says "include titanium, meta, okuda and kobayashi" - why include them if they can be installed from extras(-devel)?15:58
StskeepsJaffa: they need to be regenerated to work properly in Mer, sadly, due to a different icon theme fallback15:59
JaffaStskeeps: Ah.15:59
Stskeepsi'm really wondering about which strategy to take for the thing16:01
Stskeepsas in, which packages to ask for16:01
Stskeepsgoing for the things that are absolutely needed for HW interfacing, or try to grab a little more, and risk legal going into a fit :)16:01
JaffaStart off with the minimum, if the process works grow over time.16:02
JaffaAn ongoing relationship is more useful, after all16:02
Stskeepsah, the bigger list was based on the statement of quim: owever, they ask whether it would be possible to have a16:03
Stskeepscomplete list of closed components you need, so they can look at them in16:03
Stskeepsone go and make a decision. This is specially relevant for 3rd parties16:03
Stskeepswhich could indeed become a big list16:03
Stskeepsbut also something that really hasn't been seen before in OSS vs big company things ;)16:04
Jaffa3 parts of list: "Must have" (incl. BME etc.); "Would be really good to have" (Flash), "Would be nice to have" (any random app bundled as standard)?16:04
persiaIn the specific case of Flash, it's probably third-party.  Might be better to work with Adobe on that one.16:06
Stskeepspersia: basically we're in the progress of an interesting discussion with Nokia about being able to construct firmware images with nokia stuff if they're provided to nokia tablet ownes16:07
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rzrwhat about silverlight ?16:07
Jaffapersia: fat chance. Nokia have licenced it for use on their tablets; the licence agreement between Nokia & Adobe won't say who writes the OS16:07
Jaffarzr: what about it?16:07
rzris it supported on omap ?16:07
persiaStskeeps, redistribution of Nokia binaries, or request for source for those components?16:08
Stskeepspersia: distribution of nokia binaries16:08
Stskeepssource, they did 80% and is opening up for some of them, no use barking up a tree and wait for ages :P16:08
persiaJaffa, The point is more that Nokia is probably limited in what they can do, and may not have direct interest in chasing Adobe.16:08
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Jaffapersia: the point is that if the images are built on Nokia servers and distributed behind the same EULA, it should fall under the same licence they already have16:09
persiaStskeeps, Oh, that's interesting.  I might still expect issues with third-party stuff, and some of the branding stuff, but HW enablement, and some of the apps might be suitable.16:09
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Stskeepspersia: yeah, obviously16:09
Stskeepsstill, quite interesting chance16:10
JaffaSo it's very much a Nokia thing to ask them if a Mer image build on Nokia servers can include arbitrary binary blobs which Nokia have licenced.16:10
persiaJaffa, Yes, but distribution licenses are often distributor-restricted, and third-party licenses sometimes include a royalty payment, which gets extra complicated.16:10
persiaJaffa, Well, kinda.  Depends on positioning.  If Nokia says these are Nokia-distributed Mer images, sure.  If Nokia says that Nokia provides build infrastructure to Mer, and Mer distributes binaries, that's something else.16:11
tekonivelHai. I've had N800 browser crashing on me a lot, so i frustrated and haven't used my n800 for a while. I wonder if it's better and faster nowadays?16:12
persiaPersonally, if I were in Nokia legal, I'd probably take the latter option, to try to avoid liability for that not under direct control.16:12
Jaffapersia: The discussion is already at the point of building such images on Nokia machines, and distributed through the same download site as other tablet firmware images16:12
GeneralAntillestekonivel, that depends on how long "a while" is.16:12
JaffaIn other words, Nokia do not give non-EULA restricted binaries out, they are combined and then shipped to people who can supply a tablet MAC16:13
tekonivelMaybe 6 months or so16:13
GeneralAntillesThen yes, things have gotten a lot better.16:13
tekonivelThe browser was horribly slow and kept getting to the state of /not responding/ all the time16:14
persiaJaffa, Ah, in that case, you may be right about Flash.  I just tend to be conservative about these things.16:15
tekonivelHmm, maybe i should postpone replacing it with an Eee and update the n800 to see for myself16:15
JaffaIndeed, very sensible - except when it's known that it might be possible ;-)16:15
tekonivelWell they're quite different kinds of devices. Maybe i better give n800 an another chance16:16
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tank-mann800 has better speakers than a eeepc16:19
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tekonivel:) i'm using headphones of course16:19
Stskeepssimpliwrite is the HWR?16:20
tekonivelSurfing and notetaking is what i need it for. Maybe games too though i have an n95 for that and i like using a touchscreen for drawing16:21
GeneralAntillestekonivel, wait out the RX-51 if you're looking to upgrade.16:22
StskeepsJaffa, GeneralAntilles: , initial layout16:22
tekonivelWhat's that, i haven't heard of it16:22
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, important things shouldn't be hard to read.16:23
* Jaffa adds some free sound-effects links to the sounds task16:23
Stskeepstrue true16:23
tekonivelAnd already been waiting for asus eee 901. I'm aiming for xo-116:23
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, make the proper names easier to read16:25
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GeneralAntillesRemember, this is for legal, not a bunch of engineers.16:25
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: that's what the middle column s for :P16:26
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TeQuiLhi guys, I need some help!!!!16:26
TeQuiLTrying flash my internet tablet16:26
TeQuiL(on ubuntu)16:26
TeQuiLand it says not suitable USB, waiting16:27
TeQuiLwhat should I do????16:27
TeQuiL(the tablet is closed and connected)16:27
tank-mango to the next step16:27
tank-manin the instructions16:28
woglindedid you run the flasher as root?16:29
GeneralAntillesThat'll complain about not being able to claim the USB interface.16:30
tekonivelOh that rx51 looks quite interesting but i'm kind of tired of nokia products (yes, even though i'm a finn myself). I never saw almost any interoperability between n800 and my nokia phone. Tcp/ip over bluetooth doesn't convince me much, i want more! Like proper photo browsing over bluetooth, shared contactbook and calendar, at least16:30
GeneralAntillesWell, RX-51 is compatible with the PC Suite16:30
GeneralAntillesSo expect better Symbian interactivity.16:30
TeQuiLok, now how should I understand if it is done correclty????16:31
JaffaGeneralAntilles: PC Suite compatibility? Where'd we learn that?16:31
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StskeepsJaffa: ke-recv16:32
Stskeepsthere'll even be tethering16:32
tekonivelWaiting, waiting, waiting... I want gadgets, not just potential gadgets ;) Besides i'm not sure if i like symbian or not. Maddatory signing of apps? Come on, you must be joking!16:33
GeneralAntillesJaffa, there's a bunch of stuff in the pre-alpha16:33
GeneralAntillestekonivel, well, you asked about it.16:33
GeneralAntillestekonivel, if you don't like Symbian, then Symbian compatibility isn't as issue.16:33
TeQuiLa green bar loaded ( after that I left the swap button), at the terminal sasy "Finishing flashing... done". Now am I done????16:33
tekonivelI'll start by updating the n80016:33
GeneralAntillesTeQuiL, yes.16:33
TeQuiLnow it is stacked on the primary boot screen with the nokia logo and the USB sign top
tekonivelGeneralAntilles: hmm you're right, i admit16:34
GeneralAntillesMandatory signing is gone, anyway.16:35
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tekonivelBut interoperability should be achievable without being particular symbian combaticility, with open standards (obx, opensync, vcal or whatever)16:36
GeneralAntillesMay or may not be interesting to you.16:37
tekonivel(sorry for clumsy language, i'm mobile on n95+mirggi)16:38
tekonivelGeneralAntilles: thanks i'll check it out. Great to see some future plans16:39
TeQuiLanyone plz amswer me16:39
JaffaTeQuiL: has the N800 rebooted?16:40
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tekonivelI should catch up on maemo and n800 news and do some updating of both me and my device16:41
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GeneralAntillestekonivel, more RX-51 stuff:
TeQuiLNO it is stacked on the primary boot screen with the nokia logo and the USB sign top
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TeQuiLbut on terminal it says "Finishing flashing... done"16:42
TeQuiLshould I wait more?16:42
GeneralAntillesIt's done.16:43
GeneralAntillesYou forgot to add -R. ;)16:43
GeneralAntillesUnplug USB and restart it.16:43
trenkayou can say flasher -R now16:43
trenkait does not matter16:43
trenkanolo is in the command handling loop16:43
tekonivelNew and impressive Maemo 5 will run on n800 or only that rx51?16:44
JaffaWhat do people think the best mer screenshots are? I'll add a gallery to the Mer/About page16:44
Jaffatekonivel: Probably officially only RX-51. Whatever can be backported to run on the older hardware will be, probably as part of Mer.16:44
StskeepsJaffa: Meiz has a pretty good collection16:44
* Jaffa also has an idea to (at some point) see if a version of clutter can be compiled which will just skip all the animations. This might allow people to run Clutter-using Fremantle apps on lower end hardware16:45
JaffaStskeeps: ta16:45
tekonivelIn theory i love my n800 and maemo but i kind of got frustrated with it... But all this looks good (on paper at least)16:45
VDVsxJaffa, a index with all Mer wiki pages will be useful too16:45
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TeQuiLthanks a lot.....16:47
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towoMhhm. Now this is problematic. Is there an approximate release date for the RX-51 on the horizon?16:49
Jaffatowo: Summer 2009, probably.16:50
towoMhm. Since from what I infer, it's going to have UMTS?16:50
towoOr at least what people are pointing to..16:50
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Jaffatowo: HSPA, in fact16:50
des^damn the stuff looks nice16:51
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towoJaffa: Mhhm... Then I have to think whether my plan of getting a UMTS flatrate and an E51 as an access point might not be postponed, and I'll just get the new NIT...16:52
t_s_oit could be a while before a new tablet shows up...16:52
towoYes, that's the main problem there.16:53
towoIs 190€ worth waiting for a couple of months. ;)16:53
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Jake42-2what is RX-51???? any photos?16:56
tekonivelOk thanks everyone for the chat, i think i'll head home and update my NIT straight away16:57
GeneralAntillesJake42-2, there are two URLs in scrollback with basic hardware information.16:57
Jake42-2GeneralAntilles,  it is OS16:59
Jake42-2on N810?16:59
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Jake42-2yes I saw themm17:02
Jake42-2I am asking about the RX-5117:02
Jake42-2I didn't understand what is this....17:02
GeneralAntillesThe first Linux Devices URL should tell you.17:03
* RST38h has seen wonderful things today17:03
RST38hAlmost like a visit to the freak show, but better because it was with gadgets!17:03
Jake42-2that's the nokia N810 wimax....17:04
Jake42-2nothing more...17:04
GeneralAntillesJake42-2, sorry, no.17:05
* RST38h has seen WiBrain for sale, as well as Everun, both Samsung UMPCs, pretty much the whole lineup of netbooks (EEE to Lenovo and Toshiba), and a bunch of weird Chinese Nokia clones17:05
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GeneralAntillesThe N810 WiMAX is RX-4817:05
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RST38hAlmost bought the WiBrain. It is such a cute metal brick...17:06
Jake42-2so the RX-51 is just a new model...17:06
Jake42-2(which we don't know specs)17:06
GeneralAntillesJake42-2, you would if you read either of the URLs I linked you to. :)17:06
Jake42-2ok, fix, we don't know much :)17:06
GeneralAntillesWe know a lot, actually.17:07
GeneralAntillesIf you'd read.17:07
RST38hGeneral: Starting from the wrong end17:07
JaffaMuch more than we've ever known about a future Maemo device17:07
StslaptopGeneralAntilles: by the time Fremantle comes out, what would users expect the "fremantle for n8x0" to contain?17:08
RST38hGeneral: First question directed at the newbie should always be "Can you read and understand written English?" and the second "Have you ever used Google?"17:08
GeneralAntillesStslaptop, magic beans?17:08
Stslaptopbecause i'm wondering how much we really need of Nokia's stuff :P17:08
GeneralAntillesAs much as possible17:09
GeneralAntillesUsers expect as close of an experience as is technically feasible.17:09
JaffaStslaptop: difficult to say before we know what Fremantle on RX-51 will be like. But, as GeneralAntilles says "as much as possible" :)17:09
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Stslaptopthink they'd be pissed if we ask if we can distribute anything Nokia? :P17:10
GeneralAntillesStslaptop, if you run off into left field, you're just another Mamona.17:10
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GeneralAntillesI don't think they'd be "pissed" but it may not be a productive request.17:10
GeneralAntillesSince it isn't necessarily easy to fullfil.17:11
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StslaptopGeneralAntilles: i am thinking a tactic of getting the HW things done soon enough and then evaluating which pieces of Fremantle we'd like to take in would be a benefit17:11
JaffaSounds sensible to me.17:12
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JaffaGet a bare environment working (sound, BT, wifi, battery, power mgmt, USB etc.) and then build up. Can something like Midori (or Tear) use the Netscape plugin API? i.e. if you got Flash, could we make it work in a useful browser?17:13
StslaptopJaffa: i've had flash working in epiphany on deblet..17:13
JaffaLooks like ns-plugin is something WebKit itself supports, too17:14
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Jake42-2On N810 may I format the external card???17:15
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JaffaYes. File Manager menu somewhere17:17
JaffaIt's fairly obvious17:17
des^options -> format17:18
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StskeepsMeizirkki: bored?17:23
StskeepsMeizirkki: see if you can get the HIM methods from maemo4 to work on Mer17:23
Meizirkkicopying over from maemo?17:24
Stskeepswell, packages is fine17:24
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Stskeepsand such17:25
Stskeepsetc :P17:25
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Jake42-2kserei kaneis ti einai to rootfs???17:26
* aquatix understood `rootfs'17:26
Jake42-2I saw it on
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Jake42-2but I was wondering17:28
Jake42-2if I should install it...17:28
aquatixJake42-2: i need a translation though ;)17:28
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Jake42-2does it worth installing it?17:28
aquatixdepends on what you want to do17:29
aquatixbut quite some people like to have it17:29
Jake42-2I can I do with it?17:30
lcukjaffa, the animation part of clutter isnt the problem its getting the opengl underpinnings in place17:30
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lcukif the animation section has been correctly coded it wouldnt matter whether it runs at 1 fps or 6017:31
Jake42-2whatever... I think I don't need it....17:32
Jake42-2Something crucial... I formated the external card in ext317:32
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Jake42-2Should I format and the internal memory?17:32
Jake42-2(it is in fat16)17:33
lcukjaffa, if you are serious about trying, you could look for an opengl compliant api capable of running in cpu so that clutter can happily sit ontop of it.  you could then optimize by using a lower resolution graphics mode (something like the tearfree Xv RGB mode ssvb has incorporated which should autoscale like liqbase).  for the opengl baseline theres TinyGL which is geared to allowing a minimal subset of OGL.  its also compilable an17:35
lcukd runnable directly on tablet ( tested by me a couple of weeks ago :) )17:35
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Jake42-2lcuk,  the guy that had installed mer..... It was dual boot (maemo, and mer) or only mer?????17:40
Meizirkkioh, sorry. (if i'm not correct)17:41
Meizirkkii have dualboot...17:41
Jake42-2you did this from the original site17:41
lcukJake42-2, i dunno, i havent installed mer17:42
Jake42-2(or by yourself?)17:42
MeizirkkiJake42-2 i'm using deblet-bootmenu17:42
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Jake42-2Meizirkki, maybe devlet????17:44
infoboti guess deblet is
Jake42-2it is like grub?17:45
Meizirkkiit's initfs bootmenu17:46
VDVsxJake42-2, instructions to install Mer ->
Jake42-2VDVsx,  I am reading them right now :)17:46
Jake42-2and May I have BOTH maemo , mer17:47
thopiekari want to compile a sdl-game on sb1 but i need gl.h (by mesa).. how can i get it?17:47
Jake42-2and within maemo, easy debian?17:47
thopiekarinstall mesa?17:47
Jake42-2(I know this is too much)17:47
VDVsxJake42-2, I'm doing it right now :)17:47
Jake42-2(just talkign about the "power" of N8x0)17:47
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Jake42-2thopiekar, when I was compiling graphics, it was on a package of opengl17:48
thopiekarbut maemo4 has no opengl package...17:49
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thopiekarisn't it possible to search through all repos for a file17:51
Stskeepspackrat maybe17:51
Stskeepsi dunno17:51
Jake42-2don't remember...17:51
thopiekarJake42-2: I tried apt-get search but no results17:52
Jake42-2thopiekar, unfortunatelly I use this one 2 years ago, on windows (now I quitted using them)17:53
Jake42-2honestly I don't remember17:53
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Jake42-2try searching on google somthing like visual studio 2005+opengl17:53
Jake42-2and there would be a package ( rar) with some graphics lib17:53
Jake42-2that's all I remember, hope helped17:54
thopiekarJake42-2: thanks, but is it really possible to compile fine by copying .headers? haven't they requirements even dependences??17:56
Jake42-2in windows no...17:57
Jake42-2(but the visual studio 2005 was about 5GB installation)17:57
qwerty12Stskeeps, do you have maemo-launcher in Mer?17:58
Stskeepsqwerty12: yes17:59
qwerty12Cool, want me to package droid fonts? :-)17:59
Stskeepsgo ahead17:59
dobStskeeps: have you seen this?
Stskeepsdob: 2007, sec18:00
Stskeepswikipedia: When originally released, the droid font was accompanied by an apache license, but the EULA field in the font header stated the standard, closed, Ascender Eula, this was fixed[3] on December 9th, 2008 to reflect the proper apache license which most of Android uses for its release.18:00
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dobStskeeps: oh, ok, I just found that page on top in google18:01
thopiekarIs it possible to "underclock" a process (scratchbox1) to see how much time would it take to compile a sourcepackage on the device??^^18:01
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dobnever heard of droid sans18:01
Stskeepsthopiekar: 50x :P18:01
Stskeepsor even 100x18:02
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thopiekarStskeeps: hehe18:02
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thopiekarthe secound reason why i'm asking that is because sb1 is tanking that moment tooo much CPU-speed for me^^18:04
Stskeepsso it goes18:05
Jaffaqwerty12/Stskeeps: I think having the droid fonts forming the basis of the theme would be nice :)18:07
Stskeepshehe, perhaps18:07
JaffaSlightly smarter than Bitstream Vera/Deja Vu18:08
thopiekarwith droid-font you mean these from android right?18:08
qwerty12Jaffa, yeah, I'm liking the sound of that :)18:08
Jaffathopiekar: they are used in Android, yes - but they're Apache licenced and quite nice fonts18:08
* qwerty12 is thankful for a ttf-droid package that is dfsg compliant 18:09
thopiekarhmm but I think Nokia would never use them in their releases, because they have own one18:09
* Jaffa is talking about for Mer18:10
qwerty12It was never suggested that Nokia should use them.18:10
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LinuxHack3rsisto: Alright...this is seriously starting to bug me. Shipped through UPS, and it's like 1.5 hours from my house. It shipped from point A to point B 10 hours ago...and it's only about an hour drive. It still haven't hit point B yet. I may not get it today..I'll have to wait untill Monday...which is the estimated ship time.18:12
sistoLinuxHack3r: haha18:12
StslaptopLinuxHack3r: i'm sure it'll take a trip around africa.18:12
LinuxHack3rsisto: Yeah.18:13
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LinuxHack3rStslaptop: better not...if I want ubuntu on it...I'll install it myself. Shuttleworth himself doesn't actually have to install it.18:13
sistoLinuxHack3r: i know that feeling18:13
Stslaptopyou're getting tablet for ubuntu only sake? heh :P18:14
sistoLinuxHack3r: the wait18:14
LinuxHack3rsisto: UPS is usually pretty fast. I'll never use fedex time they kept showing me the "on truck for delivery" message, for 3 days. about 5PM, it's show "exception. Delivery delayed untill next day.'18:14
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qwerty12Stslaptop, is defoma used?18:15
Stskeepsqwerty12: i'm not even sure what it is18:15
Jaffaqwerty12: don't think so18:16
qwerty12Jaffa, thanks.18:16
RST38hmoo, qwerty, what is new and exciting?18:16
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qwerty12hey RST38h, I'm packaging Droid Sans fonts for Mer. Dunno if that can be called exciting :)18:17
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Jaffaqwerty12: Pretty exciting if you ask me.18:18
Jaffaqwerty12: actually, you could stick the package in extras, too18:18
qwerty12Jaffa, sure, I will do :)18:18
qwerty12Though I may replace the rules file, I hate cdbs with a passion...18:19
RST38hqwerty: Sounds like there is a problem with them though18:19
RST38hqwerty: ...if you have more than 5 NITs of course :)18:19
JaffaThere's no problem. They're Apache licenced.18:20
qwerty12RST38h, hehe :)18:20
qwerty12RST38h, package is dfsg compliant (took from Ubuntu's universe) so I place all my hopes into that :)18:20
LinuxHack3rStslaptop: I'm not going to put ubuntu on it...but I got the n810 because it's cool.18:20
* persia points at which is waiting in Ubuntu NEW18:21
persiaOught to recompile fine for Mer18:21
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* Stskeeps wonders why qwerty12 is packaging it then18:21
qwerty12persia, I'm working on ttf-droid-1.00~b112+dfsg. Maemo needs some special touches.18:21
qwerty12Ah well, if it's not needed in Mer, I can send to extras.18:22
Stskeepssince ttf-droid is coming up18:22
Stskeepsjust mark it 100% and point to that it is coming up in queue18:22
Jaffaqwerty12: I suppose it is something which should be in "user/graphics"18:22
qwerty12Jaffa, yes, thanks, I forgot about the new categories >.<. I was gonna put it in user/x11...18:23
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Jaffaqwerty12: I went and checked in :-)18:24
Stslaptopqwerty12: they're in repo now it looks like18:24
qwerty12Jaffa, yeah, I usually follow that table, I don't think it came to mind this time because I was focusing on Mer initially :)18:25
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qwerty12Although I get the feeling that the autobuilder is stuck...18:26
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qwerty12For diablo anyway18:27
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Meizirkkiqwerty: andvanced-power won't show up... error in line 9 in /usr/lib/hildon-desktop/ "from gnome import gconf" returns "ImportError: cannot import name gconf"18:37
qwerty12python2.5-gnome2 installed?18:38
Meizirkkiall it's depends are18:38
Meizirkkiqwerty12: it is installed...18:40
qwerty12Then it's a advanced-power problem18:40
Meizirkkioh, sorry, this is in MEr18:41
Meizirkkiforgot to mention..18:41
* RST38h watches official Nokia software completely forgotten, as everybody discusses MeR =)18:46
aquatixNokia? that's that phone manufacturer right?18:47
GeneralAntillesRST38h, isn't much Nokia software to discuss at the moment. :(18:47
RST38hGeneral: Yep, exactly =(18:50
lcuktheres plenty, mer uses much of the core fremantle released stuff doesnt it?18:54
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GeneralAntilleslcuk, exactly. That's all been sucked up by Mer. ;)18:56
GeneralAntillesRST38h, gonna compile your stuff for Mer?18:57
lcukthe community is getting behind this project because the many eyes principle allows us to iron out lots of problems prior to release18:57
qwerty12Jaffa, because the diablo-extras-builder is brain dead, here's the droid sans fonts packaged for Maemo: . Just install and you should be able to choose the font in most apps without having to restart. (I could see, choose and type with the droid family of fonts fine in the osso-notes application without having to restart)19:02
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RST38hGeneral: Only if I am going to use Mer19:06
* lcuk will compile for gcc4 soon19:07
RST38hAnyone willing to show me his /etc/NetworkManager/nm-system-settings.conf ?19:08
RST38hLooks like mine has got screwed up19:08
qwerty12Not present on my system but I'm using a older NM anyway19:09
lcukcat: can't open '/etc/NetworkManager/nm-system-settings.conf': No such file or directory19:09
lcuki guess mine is screwed up as well \@/19:10
* lcuk reflashes to fix it19:10
Meizirkkinm-applet isn't working atm19:10
RST38hI am asking for a desktop Ubuntu version19:11
RST38hThe tablet isn't supposed to have it anyway19:11
Meizirkkii have it...19:12
* Meizirkki pastebins19:12
lcukRST38h, well why didnt you say that19:13
RST38hlcuk: Sorry, kinda assumed it...19:13
persiaRST38h, In general, you can use `aptitude download ${package}` and `dpkg -x ${package}.deb` to get the original shipped files.19:13
lcuksorry, am in the wrong chan :P19:13
RST38hpersia: you mean, just get the networkmanager?19:14
MeizirkkiRST38h: ^19:15
lcukwith mer, totally on device can i do all the rebuilding i need, for instance can i use it like a regular linux system and setup to be able to compile the kernel or the omapfb drivers and stuff19:15
RST38hMeiz: Thanks!19:15
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lcukcos i might be interested in checking and validating the rotated xv pathway :)19:16
persiaRST38h, Yes, but pastebin is faster when it's a common package and someone has it :)19:16
RST38hMeiz: Weird, looks exactly like mine except yours is disabled19:16
RST38hpersia: the problem is that it appears to be borked in the latest Ubuntu19:16
RST38hI partially fixed it but it lost my eth019:16
qwerty12Meh, NM is borked. When I upgraded to intrepid, I kept the old nm from hardy19:17
persiaRST38h, Oh.  That makes it harder :(19:17
Meizirkkiqwerty12: try wicd :P19:17
qwerty12Meizirkki, hehe, my wireless setup on this machine is funky at best. Thanks but I can't risk me wireless messing up :)19:18
dobhow far does the usb networking boot recue mode thingamajig go in the booting process?19:20
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RST38hqwerty: fixable though19:22
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Stslaptopdob: all the time19:27
Stslaptopas in, after rescue menu19:27
AStormit seems we already have Fiasco on NITs19:28
Stslaptoplcuk: yes, apt-get install build-essential :P kernel maybe not19:28
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StslaptopAStorm: hm?19:28
AStormwhy didn't anyone think of running L4Linux on it?19:28
StslaptopAStorm: because noone really needed it..19:28
Stslaptopfiasco though? there's a newer kernel19:29
AStormyeah, see, it's virtualization...19:29
Stslaptoppistachio i played quite a while with19:29
woglindeAStorm to much overhead19:29
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AStormwoglinde: not all *that* much19:29
woglindeastrom and we dont need to hide the gsm-modem19:29
AStormyes, you don't19:29
AStormwe have to virtualize FB, Touchscreen and sound19:29
AStormthis *won't* be easy w/o virtualization of some kind I guess19:30
AStormcan have a stupid hack framebuffer driver... hmm19:30
AStormtouchscreen too I guess19:31
AStormand a bunch of stupid ifs in the kernel19:31
AStormbut I'd prefer to do it w/o hacking kernel19:31
dobStslaptop: I mean, does it mount the root fs, does it run the initscripts etc.? It seems it doesn't do much else than load the kernel?19:31
Stskeepsdob: oh, you're speaking of the initfs usb networking mode19:32
Stskeepsi think qwerty12 knows better than me :P19:32
dobStskeeps: I guess so :) the bootmenu one19:32
Stslaptopqwerty12: did you ever end up recompiling python-gnome2 btw?19:33
qwerty12Stslaptop, nope, never seen a reason to.19:33
Stslaptopqwerty12: oh, you fixed the thing in advanced-power instead?19:33
Stslaptopwith python-gnome vs python-gnome219:33
qwerty12Looks like I will be replacing that rules file. Fuck CDBS.19:34
qwerty12Stskeeps, yep19:34
AStormok, so, any idea how I can redirect /dev/fb, /dev/ts and a bunch of ioctls when an app is statically linked?19:35
AStormpreferably w/o hacking the kernel19:35
lcukStskeeps, why not kernel?19:35
Stslaptoplcuk: diablo kernel isn't very gcc4 friendly atm :(19:35
lcuk? you use the diablo kernel?19:36
AStormit does build with gcc 419:36
Stslaptopwell, okay, when -i- tried, it failed19:36
AStormuse proper gcc then19:36
Stslaptoplcuk: for mer? yes19:36
Stslaptop(at the moment)19:36
AStorm4.2.3 worked19:36
AStorm(Gentoo crossdev one)19:36
dobcould it be that the bootmenu usb recovery mode doesn't do anything with the selected root device? seems plausible...19:37
Stslaptopdob: yes, doesn't mount it19:37
AStormwhy should it?19:37
Stslaptopdob: mer's usb recovery thing is after selecting mer :)19:37
AStormit runs all its stuff from initfs19:37
qwerty12dob, edit (uncomment lines somewhere) to let you press menu button to go back to bootmenu while keeping usbnet active and then just boot from root device as normal. I was able to run ps from initfs and it showed maemo processes starting up.19:38
AStormyeah, did that too19:38
AStormquite neat19:38
AStormneed that auto mode switcher19:38
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AStorm(or X will be dog-slow)19:39
qwerty12can't believe that chroot was removed from initfs though :/19:39
* Stskeeps is just looking forward to when we can generate our own initfs's19:40
AStormuhm? you can already19:40
qwerty12AStorm, and distribute them safely19:40
AStormjust copy a bunch of files19:40
AStormah, that is different19:40
AStormcan write a "patch script" :>19:41
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AStormthat takes original initfs, copies a bunch of files19:41
qwerty12Although I distributed my thief's initfs for a long while without any repercussions from nokia :>19:41
AStormlucky you19:41
AStormit could've been Conexant after you19:41
dobStslaptop: oh mer has its own recovery mode? how does one use that then?19:41
Stskeepsdob: home key down when you have selected Mer boot menu item and pressed center19:42
Stskeepsand hold it down till it appears19:42
Stskeepscenter/enter/whatever :P19:42
* qwerty12 searches for the whatever key on his tablet19:42
dobhmm, if the bootmenu recovery doesn't do anything, why does my tablet reboot after a while?19:42
dobStskeeps: should that be documented somewhere? :)19:43
Stskeepsdob: it is19:43
qwerty12dsme reboots it after 4 mins, think you can do dsme --root-mounted or just enable rd-mode19:43
Stskeepsdob: , "If anything goes wrong, grab a USB cable, and rescue mode is done through holding down Home key when booting Mer. "19:43
Stskeepsdob: feel free to document it better ;)19:44
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dobStskeeps: hah, I skimmed that page just now looking for that :D19:45
* GeneralAntilles grumbles evil things about Comcast.19:46
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Vulcanismaybe we should stop installing mer19:47
dobqwerty12: oh, thanks19:47
StskeepsVulcanis: cover-my-ass thing, if anyone claims it destroyed their lives worth, it's not my fault19:49
radichi Stskeeps & qwerty1219:49
VulcanisOh, I know.19:49
Vulcanisbut, zombies...19:49
Jaffaqwerty12: indeed, I've got them in ~/.fonts already :-)19:51
qwerty12Jaffa, hehe, I should have realised that you would have already had them installed :)19:52
JaffaGood to push 'em out to more ppl though19:53
JaffaAnd now they can be a dependency for a future theme19:53
Jaffa(even the mer one for maemo ;-))19:53
dobStskeeps: perhaps it should be documented on some non-release-specific page presuming it's not(?) release-specific? Lets wait for when 0.7 is released.19:54
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Stslaptopmmk - beware the release comes like a thief in the night at some point without specific preperation ;)19:55
Stskeepsor put it in Mer/Documentation19:56
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* qwerty12 blinks as he sees he has 4791 packages installed on his tablet19:56
qwerty12No wait, that includes packages I can install >.<19:57
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Stskeepsqwerty12: that better not be Mer :P19:57
Jaffaqwerty12: dpkg --get-selections | wc -l19:57
Stskeepsbut yes, red pill mode in Mer would be a nightmare.19:57
qwerty12Jaffa, nice, thank you :)19:58
lcukis jaiku on the fritz again19:58
lcukahh no19:58
qwerty12Stskeeps, haha, forget nokia's ways of stopping red pill mode from being used :P19:58
Jaffadob: I think the installation instructions could be nicely done under Mer/Documentation/Installation - but I wasn't sure whether to have one page per type, or one page for all, or one page per release.19:58
JaffaSo I stopped thinking about it19:58
Jaffaqwerty12: no, it's a good idea.19:59
JaffaAlthough, how does Ubuntu's "Add/remove software" (Synaptic?) decide what to show? It has human readable titles as well19:59
Stskeepsqwerty12: "show all categories" wouldn't be a bad thing19:59
StskeepsJaffa: the categories does correspond to a name19:59
Stskeeps.. dunno :P19:59
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qwerty12Jaffa, I know :). I'm poking fun because in Mer, trying to enumerate all the packages in red pill mode will probably crash h-a-m which would probably dissuade most users from trying to enable it again :P20:00
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dobJaffa: hmm, Mer/Documentation isn't linked to from anywhere20:00
dobJaffa: also, what do you mean by 'type'?20:00
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JaffaHmm. For example, top of the "All" list in Intrepid is "20.000 Light Years Into Space", which is `lightyears'. apt-cache show lightyears doesn't show where it's getting that title and category from.20:01
Jaffadob: Hmm. That's because no-one wants to read all Mer's documentation. They want to read "Installation (i.e. release) documentation" or "Development documentation".20:02
JaffaSo perhaps /Documentation isn't needed at all (although useful for categorisation?)20:02
Jaffadob: By "type" I meant "platform"20:02
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dobJaffa: sounds reasonable. No need to delete that page, but wouldn't categories be suitable for that kind of categorisation in mediawiki? :)20:05
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dobJaffa: I think a separate installation page isn't needed yet as I imagine the instructions would change between releases (i.e. it's fine to have the instructions right on the release page, it's not too long yet)20:10
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* Stskeeps glares at fbreader20:17
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* fbreader glares back20:17
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Jaffadob: thinking further - installation instructions can be per release and be on a static page - that page is version controlled cos it's in the wiki20:19
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dobJaffa: or rather the 'static page' would just redirect to the latest instructions on the 'per release' page?20:23
dobJaffa: or do you mean there would only be a single page? I was confused by that 'and' :)20:24
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* Jaffa foods20:26
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* b-man is mesmerised by how nice the new Mer Blueprint home page is 0_o20:43
Stskeepsi had no part in it, of course it is good looking ;)20:43
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RST38hurl? =)20:46
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lcukb-man, i really like it as well - the blue background thingy is nicer - its not so extreme, the brilliant white at the centre top of the original was too overpowering20:48
lcuk(and it also meant white text could not be used near it20:48
* Stskeeps wonders why Modest is depending on operator-wizard.20:49
t_s_oto make sure it has some way to connect?20:50
Stskeepst_s_o: that's usually libconic..20:50
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t_s_oheh, shows what i know20:50
* b-man updates merinstaller to use the new, rounder, nicer icon :) 20:51
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DarkenCZHi. I just tried to install MER. I boot succesfully, but I can't use keyboard, so I am stuck on Please type your fullname dialog... any advice?20:52
b-manyes, the Mer Project Installer ;)20:52
StskeepsDarkenCZ: try and tap the field20:52
t_s_ob-man: let me guess, a tool to install mer on a SD card?20:52
StskeepsDarkenCZ: also, what tablet?20:53
DarkenCZStskeeps: n81020:53
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b-mant_s_o: hehe, it also partitions/formats it ;)20:53
DarkenCZStskeeps: I installed from tgz file and just unpack it to partition, maybe I forget to include somehint (module loading)20:54
t_s_oheh, maybe ill try that ones i finally get those 8GB sd cards, darn messed up order...20:54
DarkenCZI taping to field like crazy, I see the cursor is blinking, but keyboard don't work20:54
StskeepsDarkenCZ: did you make a bootmenu item?20:54
DarkenCZStskeeps: I did, but maybe I forget to add some parameter20:55
StskeepsDarkenCZ: pastebin it for me ( if it's okay20:55
Stskeepsalso, make sure you used gnutar to unpack with20:55
Stskeepsb-man: can you make a .install file for deb btw?20:56
Stskeepssince it needs things not in standard repositories20:56
DarkenCZStskeeps: I will... but there should not be problem with tar, I successfully get mer screen, see loading graphics and then name dialog... wait a while, I paste you my bootmenu20:56
StskeepsDarkenCZ: yeah, but things can get tricky once in a while :)20:56
Jake42-2In case I install easy debian in mmc1, would I be able afterwards to uninstall this just by formating the whole mmc1???20:57
b-manStskeeps: shure20:57
* khertan_ is trying is fourst Mer install :)20:58
* b-man finally has a working Ubuntu Jaunty install on his N800 again, woho!!!!!!!20:59
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StskeepsDarkenCZ: yes, fair enough - you need to use deblet bootmenu or weird things will happen :) i can recommend the mer installer and
DarkenCZStskeeps: I used to boot deblet from this menu :)21:01
StskeepsDarkenCZ: is it the deblet bootmenu with LINUXRC support? we removed non-deblet bootmenu support so21:01
Stskeepsas it screwed up system21:01
DarkenCZI tried to install installer from deb, but it told me that deb fine is not binary compatible21:02
Stskeepswhich one, bootmenu.deb or the merinstaller?21:02
DarkenCZbootmenu I thing21:02
Stskeepscheck if you can :)21:03
Stskeepsmerinstaller, you need to add extras-devel repository21:03
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DarkenCZI will check it21:04
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b-manStskeeps: do i need to start uploading the merinstaller to a repo?, and if so, how can i do this?21:04
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Stskeepsb-man: mm.21:05
DarkenCZStskeeps: I have it, I just making apt-get updte21:05
Stskeepswhats the url for latest source? i'll make a tar.gz for you21:05
Stskeepsas in, a debian package :P21:05
Stskeeps(a real one)21:06
Stskeepsthen we can get it into extras-devel which may be more useful :P21:08
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DarkenCZStskeeps: Incompatible application package21:10
StskeepsDarkenCZ: for bootmenu? hmm21:11
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DarkenCZfor installer21:11
Stskeepsis bootmenu installed first?21:12
DarkenCZStskeeps: installing21:12
Stskeepsand after that make sure you have extras-devel repository21:13
DarkenCZStskeeps: I already made... I have21:14
DarkenCZBotmenu installed, but still unable to install merinstaller21:16
Stskeepstry dpkg -i the package21:16
qwerty12_N800use dpkg, the section is wrong on it21:16
Stskeepsso that's what's up21:16
Stskeepsb-man, looking into that? ;)21:17
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b-manhehe, i am now ;)21:17
* b-man updates /DEBIAN/control21:18
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* b-man overloads his N800 by simotaniusly insalling ubuntu-desktop in ubuntu in cdeb2, chating, browsing the web, using emelfm2, and by updating deb allong with using ssh21:22
b-manand uploading a 172mb file va ftp ;)21:26
* Stskeeps is waiting for his noodles to become soft.21:28
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michal_nick DarkenCZ_21:28
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DarkenCZ_BTW do I understand right, that MER use same gui technologies? Metacity, hildon, gtk2 ?21:30
Stskeepser. Mer uses hildon, gtk, matchbox, not metacity ;)21:30
Stskeepsyes, but it's also Ubuntu underneath21:30
DarkenCZ_matchbox, sorry :)21:30
qwerty12_N800X-Fade, any idea why the diablo builder is stalled? i'd like to get ttf-droid into diablo extras-devel (it succeeded building for chinook fine) :)21:30
Stskeepsso you can change around things if you want21:30
DarkenCZ_Sounds perfect21:30
DarkenCZ_I had simular ideas before, I wanted to add hildon interface to deblet... but I was not able to find time to do it :(21:31
* DarkenCZ_ is booting mer again21:32
Stskeepsokay, did you run the installer + add a _LINUXRC item? ;)21:32
Stskeeps+ = or21:32
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DarkenCZ_Yes, but maybe in not right way...21:33
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dobJaffa: about the ubuntu add/remove app, it uses .desktop files:
DarkenCZStskeeps: I have new item in /etc/bootmenud.d21:34
Stskeepsok, /etc/bootmenu.d, can i see it?21:34
Stskeepsthe item21:34
DarkenCZYou have to waint until I will wake pda up :)21:35
Stskeepshehe, ok21:35
DarkenCZDoes it only seems to me, or external card is sometimes mmcblk0 and sometimes mmcblk1 :)21:36
Stskeepsyes, it is sometimes21:36
Stskeepsour installers takes care of that21:36
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RST38hNigerian Goat Detained on Suspicion of Armed Robbery!21:36
RST38hDarken: It is a known problem21:36
DarkenCZI tried to boot new mer option, but I fail after some time and boot from flash21:37
DarkenCZI will send you my mer item21:37
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StskeepsDarkenCZ: yes, ok, MODULES should have ="mbcache jbd ext3" in them  FSTYPE="ext3"21:39
Stskeepsedit it in /etc/bootmenu.d and refresh_bootmenu.d21:39
Stskeepsalso, edit mmcblk1 to be ${INT_CARD} or ${EXT_CARD} depending on where you installed it21:39
DarkenCZI thought it was quite simple :)21:40
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DarkenCZwow, looks better this time21:42
Stskeepsbeware the first boot might have messed up the image21:43
Stskeepsso you need to un-tar.gz again21:43
DarkenCZHm... keybord don't work anyway :((21:44
FireFoxStskeeps: hehe - fixed that problem in my next release - runs fuser -m /mnt/mer -k before unmounting /mnt/mer in merinstaller21:44
StskeepsFireFox: do you remember to cd out of it so you don't kill yourself?21:44
Stskeepspeople has talked about it dying right after asking for root password21:45
FireFoxhehe, yes :)21:45
DarkenCZI have exactly same problem as with old boot menu :(21:45
StskeepsDarkenCZ: did you reformat the partition and unpack again?21:45
DarkenCZStskeeps: No, I did not :(21:46
Stskeepstry that21:46
DarkenCZI will... but do you know this problem or you just guess :)21:46
Stskeepsi have a guess, but we'll see if i'm right :P21:46
Stskeepsbut also we've seen this problem before but never confirmed what caused it21:46
Stskeepshope you're okay with spending a little time walking through it so we can fix it for next release :)21:47
Stskeeps(which is on the 1st of feb)21:47
DarkenCZOk :) Maybe some problem with modules? how is n810 keybord known for linux kernel?21:47
Stskeepsit should be within kernel21:48
DarkenCZSo, I will download this file and unpack as root21:48
DarkenCZThis file :)21:49
Stskeepsand remember to check if you have gnu tar (tar --version)21:49
DarkenCZI will21:50
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DarkenCZOk, I am unpacking again, using gtar21:55
khertan_apt-get install osso-xterm21:56
DarkenCZbtw, don't you need some help with MER localization?21:57
StskeepsDarkenCZ: yes, eventually, but right now we're focusing on the technical part :)21:58
Stskeepsthere is support for it in much of the software21:58
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Stskeeps for instance21:59
Stskeepsbut right now we're missing localization strings for even english, so :)21:59
DarkenCZI see... I will check it :)21:59
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Stskeepslo meiz22:00
Meiz_n810hello Sts22:00
khertan_Hi !22:01
Jaffadob: ah, clever. I thought about using .desktops but was wondering how they extracted it. I *think* I prefer the Maemo method, but that's less localisable22:01
* FireFox waits hesitantly for ubuntu-desktop to finish installing on his N80022:01
Meiz_n810could someone pastebin me the easydebians xephwm script?22:01
StskeepsFireFox: i've been waiting 6 hours for a snapshot release of mer.22:02
JaffaFireFox: in mer?22:02
Stskeepswell, ok, 4 hours22:02
StskeepsJaffa: b-man maintains a pure-ubuntu guide too so, based on some of the mer things22:02
FireFoxStskeeps: wow 0_o22:02
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JaffaIndeed. But presumably, apt-get install ubuntu-desktop should "just" work?22:03
Meiz_n810gnome and kde are both painful to use on n8x0 :P22:03
StskeepsJaffa: eventually yes22:03
Stskeepswe have some minor seams atm22:03
FireFoxlibgnomevfs issue ;)22:03
DarkenCZI tried gnome and I must agree22:03
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* Stskeeps ponders to post a thread on iTT about "Mer as the community edition of Fremantle - What and how?", to get people's view of what is important to include or to have.22:04
DarkenCZI love gnome on desktop, but no way on tablet22:04
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Meiz_n810DarkenCZ: KDE 4.2 is even worse...22:04
* FireFox uses a TON of swap ;)22:04
DarkenCZMeiz_n810: KDE is always worse :D22:04
FireFoxwith insserv and preload ;)22:05
RST38hSts: There is no Fremantle yet, just a pre-alpha sdk22:05
StskeepsRST38h: true22:05
Meiz_n810DarkenCZ: i prefer KDE 4.2 on my ubuntubox22:05
* RST38h wouldn't haste things22:05
DarkenCZMeiz_n810: Hei, seems we have to fight old gnome vs. KDE battle again :)22:05
Meiz_n810DarkenCZ: nah, i like both, so...22:06
khertan_DarkenCZ: nope ... everybody agree that a gnome is better on limited device22:06
DarkenCZStskeeps: I am still without working keyboard :((22:06
StskeepsDarkenCZ: alright, sec22:06
FireFoxkhertan: i will, but it requires a lot of swap ;)22:07
DarkenCZHow it should work in case of n800? There should be support for virtual keybord22:07
StskeepsDarkenCZ: can you in maemo verify if /etc/pointercal exists on the Mer partition?22:07
StskeepsDarkenCZ: check if you can move the dialog box first22:07
Stskeepswith touch22:07
GeneralAntillesOh, finally. Internet.22:08
DarkenCZYes, I can move the dialog22:08
khertan_hum ... apt-get upgrade on Mer is a bad idea ;) :
StskeepsDarkenCZ: k22:08
DarkenCZTo check partition, I need to reboot again, wait22:08
Stskeepskhertan_: yeah, i ran into the same, i'll add it to the task list22:08
khertan_Stskeeps: héhé libc622:08
StskeepsDarkenCZ: nm about pointercal since you can move dialog22:08
Stskeepskhertan_: docpurge nightmare22:08
DarkenCZOk, so what more I ca do?22:08
FireFoxStskeeps: tweek apt-pinning? ;)22:09
JaffaStskeeps: people'll have difficulty saying what they want from Fremantle when no-one's seen it, I suspect ;-)22:09
StskeepsJaffa: true22:09
Meiz_n810DarkenCZ: h-i-m not working?22:09
DarkenCZMeiz_n810: h-i-m ?22:09
StskeepsDarkenCZ: the on screen keyboard :)22:09
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DarkenCZThere is no on screen keybord22:10
Stskeepsas in, it doesn't pop up22:10
Meiz_n810That happened to me once too22:10
DarkenCZThere is only backgroud and simple dialog window asking me for name22:10
Meiz_n810DarkenCZ: you user the mer-installer?22:11
thopiekarwhats the command to get the version of debian?22:11
StskeepsJaffa: so the tactic is to state that we need those hardware support packages as initial thing, as we don't know what Fremantle will bring of applications just yet and we want to wait for that a bit22:11
DarkenCZMercury: I installed it manually first, then I used installer, but still same problem22:11
Stskeeps+ ?22:11
thopiekarlike 'sid', etc22:11
DarkenCZThat was for Meiz_n810, sorry22:12
Meiz_n810DarkenCZ: weird problem...22:12
* thopiekar would like to know there version of debian on his tablet22:12
DarkenCZAnything more I can try?22:13
Stskeepsbrowsing some code22:13
zecrazytuxthopiekar: cat /etc/debian_version22:14
StskeepsDarkenCZ: what happens if you slide in the keyboard and press on the field?22:15
thopiekarthanks and the architecture is arm right?22:15
zecrazytuxarm or armel22:15
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zecrazytuxI don't use maemo for now (trying to setup a plain debian)22:15
Stskeepszecrazytux: was it you trying to do it manually? :P22:16
DarkenCZStskeeps: nothing... but I have the same problem on maemo... when I closed the keybord, screen keyboard does not appear... sometimes :)22:16
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StskeepsDarkenCZ: ok, can you do me a favour and add it on and paste the contents of your /proc/component_version as well?22:18
Stskeepsso we can keep track of it, and the hardware make you have22:18
DarkenCZStskeeps: sure... but /proc/component will be taken from maemo installation22:19
Stskeepsyes, it's fine22:19
DarkenCZOk, I will do it22:19
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DarkenCZBut I see only three items there22:21
DarkenCZproduct     RX-4422:21
DarkenCZhw-build    080122:21
DarkenCZnolo        1.1.1622:21
DarkenCZIt's that right22:21
Stskeepsyes, thank you22:21
DarkenCZOk, so I will paste it there22:21
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* Stskeeps notes to himself he should look closer at fremantle alpha sdk22:29
Stskeepspre-alpha that is22:29
DarkenCZStskeeps: Bug 403922:32
Stskeepsthanks :)22:33
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timelessanyone here familiar w/ .po/.mo?22:36
RST38hAll righty, fMSX with virtual keyboard support is now in Extras22:38
DarkenCZStskeeps: I mounted partition under maemo and I found udev log, maybe we can find something interesting there22:39
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r2d2rogersStskeeps: pong22:40
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r2d2rogerssorry for delay, we seem to have a stomach bug22:40
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: can you list me what dsp modules or whatever 770 has for sound playing?22:41
Stskeepspackage name and files22:41
r2d2rogerscan dig, want maemo or mer?22:41
qwerty12_N800RST38h, thanks!22:42
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Stskeepsr2d2rogers: maemo22:42
* timeless pokes people22:44
JaffaStskeeps: given Nokia want to differentiate with apps, I suspect it'll be hardware binary blobs & Flash for the time being. Some parts of Fremantle UI layer, maybe - depending on what it ships. For example, if it ships a kick ass Media Player on top of MIDAS, maybe Mer'll want that22:44
StskeepsJaffa: *nod*22:44
StskeepsJaffa: i highly doubt flash22:44
Stskeepsi'm perfectly happy with hw interfacing really. the community should implement some OSS things :P22:45
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Stskeepscan't expect to get everything handed down :P22:46
GeneralAntillesNokia's differentiation stuff usually sucks, anyway.22:48
Stskeepswell, finger keyboard, hwr and word completition..22:48
Stskeepstimeless: i would like to learn :P (.po/.mo)22:48
RST38hGeneral: non-differentiation stuff also sucks22:48
* RST38h remembers PC Suite and shudders22:48
timelesssts: ok, be my guinea pig?22:48
Stskeepstimeless: mmk22:48
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, at least they're improvable, anyway.22:49
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, finger keyboard is broken as hell, hwr is laughable and word completion is meh.22:49
RST38hGeneral: Some, yes. PC Suite is not improvable really. Just has to be scrapped.22:49
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* RST38h kills and restarts Modest again (hung asking for passwords, pop3 account no longer works even after changing data)22:52
dobhow long a window is there for pressing the home button to start the rescue mode? Nothing seems to be happening for me.22:54
ciroipanyone know the product number of the n800? the n810 is RX-4422:54
RST38hoh, sorry22:54
ciroipmh RST38h: do you have a n800?22:54
ciroipcat /proc/component_version should do the trick22:55
RST38hciroip: No, my mistake.22:55
r2d2rogersdob, bootmenu or mer?22:55
RST38hqwerty is rigjt22:55
dobr2d2rogers: mer22:55
r2d2rogerstwo "notches" of the progress meter22:55
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ciroipI want try to downgrade the my app in case I can recognize an n80022:55
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JaffaExtras uploading doesn't need packages to be signed anymore, does it?22:57
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RST38hit should not22:57
* RST38h is still signing 'em though22:57
Jaffa`mud upload' just became really easy to implement ;-)22:57
dobr2d2rogers: what progress meter? I just see text until pivot root and starting /sbin/init and then it hangs there and reboots after ~15 secs22:58
Stskeepsdob: hmm, that's odd22:58
JaffaStskeeps: I'm quite happy to argue with Nokia if the answer comes back for Flash with "um, no". If it comes back with a good explanation, perhaps less so ;-)22:59
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r2d2rogersdob I can hit it when I see the pivot root first appear, and hold hime till the menu comes up23:00
r2d2rogersI can also get the menu if I wait till the splash screen appears but hit home before two notches od progress.23:00
qwerty12_N800dob, that happened to me when my partition number was wrong, fstype was wrong & modules were wrong for ext3 in my *.item file23:00
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Jaffavim_7.2-0maemo2 uploaded to auto-builder :-)23:04
dobqwerty12_N800: so the simple installer is to blame? :)23:05
* Stskeeps wonders what on earth hildon_keyboard_assistant is23:05
RST38hit assists the keyboard!23:05
qwerty12_N800dob, I never used it :)23:06
qwerty12_N800so I wouldn't know23:06
* Jaffa is quite chuffed with how simple the vim package is now defined in mud:
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JaffaStskeeps; Another one for the list - Nokia Internet Call23:09
JaffaAbsolutely no idea how much integration work'd be required for that, but it's something I use rarely but importantly.23:10
RST38hHmm...Nokia released Contacts plugin for Ovi23:10
RST38hIs it any useful? Or yet-another-chat-service-nobody-uses?23:10
StskeepsJaffa: right now we have an odd situation in that modest depends on operator-wizard (closed), and osso-pdf-reader and other funny things require modest :)23:10
Stskeepsso i'm grumpy and upgrading packages i forgot to upgrade from the pre-alpha sdk23:11
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, should be trivial removing that dependency23:11
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: probably, but it's annoying still :)23:11
JaffaShows that "open" doesn't necessarily equate with useful. Why osso-pdf-reader? Shouldn't it just be firing an "open this document" DBUS message?23:12
lcukno, it should be firing a get handler for this mimetype23:13
StskeepsJaffa: libcomapp -> libmodest-dbus-dev -> something23:13
Stskeepsor something23:13
Jaffalcuk: ...or something ;-). But not osso-pdf-reader directly.23:13
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lcukbut thats the filemanager23:14
lcukmmm sorry should read up a little bit :$23:15
GeneralAntillesFile some bugs.23:17
r2d2rogersStskeeps: slow today, not feeling well, but looks like AIC23 was being developed by the linux-omap guys as of september...23:18
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: i've had a bad neck pain all day, so join the club :P23:20
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: no codecs / mp3 or something?23:20
r2d2rogersgonna install 32 bit OS and get the SDK up runnning23:20
r2d2rogershave to install OS2008 or OS2007 to check, Sound on OS2008HE doesn't work somehow23:21
r2d2rogersomse system sounds, but that's about it23:21
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: dpkg -l | grep dsp?23:24
r2d2rogersosso-dsp-loader osso-dspmodules-rx-44 osso-multimedia-dsp23:27
Stskeepsrx-44? interesting23:27
r2d2rogersis 44 the 800?23:28
r2d2rogersso it may not work due to the wrong modules being installed23:28
qwerty12_N800But diablo has the N810 dsp modules by default too23:29
qwerty12_N800s/diablo/diablo on N800/23:29
infobotqwerty12_N800 meant: But diablo on N800 has the N810 dsp modules by default too23:29
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: perhaps they do work on the dsp :P23:29
r2d2rogersno results from replaceing dsp with codec or mp3 in the last command23:30
* Stskeeps tries a new snapshot23:31
r2d2rogersinteresting email in the maemo dvelopers archive
Stskeepshmm, didn't know omap2 DSP was supported by dspgateway23:33
Stskeepsi wonder..23:35
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StskeepsOpenMAX doesn't work for OMAP2 does it?23:36
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t3rminat0r_Stskeeps, man, I need your help!!!23:41
Stskeepsthat'll be 27 euro per hour in consulting feeds23:42
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t3rminat0r_the mer...23:44
t3rminat0r_how may I install it?23:45
t3rminat0r_     ?23:45
Stskeepsno, not chroot23:45
t3rminat0r_which means?23:46
Stskeepsif you want to try it out, try out the virtual disk image first, or use the installer23:47
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Stskeepssynaptics driver fucking needs to die23:48
t3rminat0r_you mean23:48
t3rminat0r_   ?23:48
t3rminat0r_this one?23:48
Stskeepsyes, for instance23:48
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t3rminat0r_and it will create itself an image on the N810?23:49
t3rminat0r_(and a dual boot as well?)23:49
Stskeepsif you do it properly, yes23:49
Stskeepsif you install bootmenu first23:49
Stskeepsand then install -> bobotmenu23:50
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Stskeepsbut beware23:50
Stskeepsthis -is difficult-23:50
t3rminat0r_if I follow the installer alone23:50
t3rminat0r_it would fine (and easy) right?23:50
Stskeepsif you install bootmenu, and install the installer after adding extras-devel repository23:51
Stskeepsbut it is not easy OS23:51
Stskeepswait till 1st february for a more easier OS23:51
suihkulokkiwindows ce?23:52
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Stskeepssuihkulokki: no, one with xterm23:52
t3rminat0r_Stskeeps, i WILL :)23:52
t3rminat0r_do you prepare something?23:53
Stskeepst3rminat0r_: mer will release every 2nd week on sunday23:53
t3rminat0r_man you are great!!!23:54
Stskeepsno, next week23:54
t3rminat0r_ok man,23:54
t3rminat0r_what time? :)23:54
t3rminat0r_it would be a light ubuntu version?23:55
* timeless watches senator kelly disintegrate 23:55
Stskeepsit would be more maemo than ubuntu, but more ubuntu than maemo23:55
Stskeepssometime during the day. probably during the evening as i'll be hungover and curled up in a fetal position23:55
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t3rminat0r_come on, don't be nervous23:56
t3rminat0r_I think it is a great job :023:56
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Stskeepsnervous? i don't drink because i'm nervous :P i drink because i need to!23:57
lcukyeah Stskeeps, but you are the only one who pours vodka on your corn flakes23:57
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t3rminat0r_and how may I update the mer?23:58
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t3rminat0r_uninstall and reinstall again and again?23:58
Stskeeps(right now)23:59
t3rminat0r_or there will be a dist-upgrade?23:59
Stskeepsthere will be..23:59
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radicStskeeps: did you know the releasedate of unreal-3.3?23:59
Stskeepsradic: no sorry, i'm completely out of the project23:59

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