| LinuxCode | that..never complies to RFCs ? | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| LinuxCode | YES THAT COMPANY | 00:00 |
| * b-man|hacking hates microsoft | 00:01 | |
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| * Stskeeps uses his xp and is happy about it. | 00:01 | |
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| b-man|hacking | i just don't like microsoft's closed-sorce philosophy | 00:04 |
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| lardman | at least Bill spends his money on useful things though | 00:07 |
| pupnik_ | i rather move a lever | 00:09 |
| pupnik_ | than lift a rock | 00:09 |
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| lardman | hmm, good to see the Pandora folks are now demanding cash/bank transfer and no CC allowed | 00:11 |
| lardman | s/good/<sarcasm>good</sarcasm> | 00:11 |
| r2d2rogers | Stskeeps: h-i-m works on the imager run, but not 0.6 | 00:11 |
| Stskeeps | r2d2rogers: k | 00:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, Pandora. | 00:12 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: jesus christ | 00:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's too bad Karel gave up on them. | 00:12 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: that just signals way too many alarm bells for me to handle | 00:12 |
| lardman | yeah, definitely | 00:12 |
| b-man|hacking | true... | 00:13 |
| lardman | interesting there was a *news flash* this morning, that full opengl would be supported, which now turns out to be a misunderstanding. hmm | 00:13 |
| r2d2rogers | Stskeeps: homerun! all very NICE | 00:13 |
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| Stskeeps | r2d2rogers: sapwood works? | 00:14 |
| Stskeeps | i want screenshots | 00:14 |
| r2d2rogers | latest imager plus the sapwood from johnx | 00:14 |
| r2d2rogers | you'll get them | 00:14 |
| Stskeeps | i'll send sapwood to the presses then | 00:15 |
| r2d2rogers | yessir | 00:15 |
| lardman | anyone here used cwiid? | 00:15 |
| * Stskeeps tries to figure out how to make vmdk images automatically | 00:16 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | lardman, use konttori's package. | 00:16 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: yep, I have done and it works nicely | 00:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | cwiid is a mess. | 00:17 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: I was just thinking about linking it through a joystick dev entry though | 00:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's not actually packaged | 00:17 |
| lardman | hmm, ok | 00:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | So it just shits all over four FS and then you can't remove it. ;) | 00:17 |
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| GeneralAntilles | s/four/your/ | 00:17 |
| lardman | yeah, not ideal ;) | 00:17 |
| r2d2rogers | Stskeeps: what do youthink about changing the usbnet-emergency-telnetd script to remove those read foo's | 00:18 |
| lardman | I quite fancy the look of this (very basic app): http://www.harbaum.org/till/tiltstick/index.shtml#soft | 00:18 |
| Stskeeps | r2d2rogers: go ahead for now, it's weird 770 doesnt have it | 00:18 |
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| r2d2rogers | it seems like it doesn't make it to console on that option | 00:19 |
| r2d2rogers | will dig before I commit it as a change | 00:19 |
| lcuk | oooh lardman you are getting into this accel stuff :D | 00:20 |
| r2d2rogers | Mer on 770 http://handhelds.org/scap/port.3812.png | 00:20 |
| Stskeeps | r2d2rogers: \o/ | 00:21 |
| lardman | lcuk: fun toy :) | 00:21 |
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| lcuk | yeah i got frustrated and bored when i played in windows, it will work nicely on rx-51 | 00:21 |
| r2d2rogers | Mer on 770 http://handhelds.org/scap/port.3862.png | 00:21 |
| Stskeeps | r2d2rogers: hehe, looks just like on n800 :) | 00:22 |
| r2d2rogers | that's good <G> | 00:22 |
| lcuk | r2d2rogers, step backwards and take a pic including the bezel and a copy of todays newspaper :P | 00:22 |
| r2d2rogers | lol | 00:23 |
| lcuk | could we use that tiltstick inside the extended case from craves1 and using the internal serial port? | 00:27 |
| Stskeeps | r2d2rogers: how does it work speed wise? | 00:27 |
| lardman | lcuk: no idea, I've not seen either, but the hw for that should be pretty small | 00:27 |
| lcuk | that page has links | 00:28 |
| lcuk | pictures sorry | 00:28 |
| lardman | serial port & case? | 00:28 |
| lardman | ah, accelerometer | 00:29 |
| lcuk | http://www.remotefactory.com/32gbn810sdSSMetal.html | 00:30 |
| lcuk | get one of those for the 32gb upgrade and use the extra space for an accel | 00:30 |
| lardman | hmm, interesting | 00:30 |
| lardman | quite a cool hack | 00:31 |
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| t_s_o | ok, mnotes have really turned into a wonderapp :D | 00:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, who cares, the RX-51 has accelerometers. :P | 00:33 |
| lcuk | you only have to look around at the number of functional 770s people have to see that the 810 isn't going anywhere in a hurry | 00:34 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: and RDS... | 00:35 |
| lardman | :) | 00:35 |
| lcuk | random dot stereograms? :D | 00:36 |
| lardman | close... | 00:36 |
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| timelE61i | mS doesn't have a closed source philosophy | 00:36 |
| mavhc | apparently the RDS traffic updates are trivially easy to spoof, you could report accidents all along your journey to work, causing people to avoid that route, and getting there much sooner | 00:37 |
| lardman | hmm, Google gives me something else as the first link ;) | 00:37 |
| timelE61i | They write quality documentation and offer real support contracts | 00:37 |
| * lcuk googled after | 00:37 | |
| timelE61i | Like many vendors they can't write a search engine | 00:37 |
| lardman | mavhc: yep, I was thinking about receiving the actual reports though, but spoofing would be good too as it also has an RDS transmitter | 00:37 |
| timelE61i | But that's why people use googe | 00:37 |
| timelE61i | Google.... | 00:37 |
| timelE61i | If you want bad support or bad documentation. Look closer to home | 00:38 |
| r2d2rogers | Stskeeps: seems good, will boot the other 770 to OS2008HE to compare | 00:38 |
| * RST38h curses Genesis and its software | 00:43 | |
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| timelE61i | sega? | 00:46 |
| Stskeeps | Myrtti: damn, you're busy on wiki | 00:46 |
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| Myrtti | Stskeeps: I just realized that I'm two hours behind from Finland | 00:48 |
| lardman | any thoughts as to how to make using conic synchronous? | 00:48 |
| Myrtti | so if qlin shows the wikipages tomorrow, she'll be doing it about two hours before I'm even off the bed | 00:49 |
| Stskeeps | Myrtti: you employed for this? just curious :) | 00:49 |
| Myrtti | Stskeeps: also, I'm a pro in this | 00:49 |
| Myrtti | Stskeeps: yup | 00:49 |
| Stskeeps | alright | 00:49 |
| Myrtti | well, semipro | 00:50 |
| Stskeeps | it usually requires quite a bit of wiki-OCD to do that without pay ;) | 00:50 |
| Myrtti | semipro in the sense that I really breathe Mediawiki syntax in and out | 00:50 |
| Myrtti | Stskeeps: which I've done when I was seriously addicted to editing Wikipedia | 00:50 |
| Myrtti | Stskeeps: http://toolserver.org/~interiot/cgi-bin/count_edits?user=Myrtti&dbname=fiwiki_p | 00:51 |
| Jaffa | lardman: There's a mud package for cwiid | 00:51 |
| Jaffa | Not been built for a while, AFAICT, mind. | 00:51 |
| Stskeeps | Myrtti: neat :P | 00:51 |
| lardman | Jaffa: thanks, as the General recommended, I think I'll stick with kontorri's app | 00:53 |
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| LinuxHack3r | sisto: Let me tell you, waiting like this and not knowing when it'll ship, or even when they'll get it, is driving me crazy. | 00:55 |
| r2d2rogers | Stskeeps: looks like it's comparable at least, load times for 770 will not be quick I'm sure | 00:56 |
| Stskeeps | r2d2rogers: alright | 00:56 |
| r2d2rogers | Stskeeps: installing midori to play | 00:56 |
| r2d2rogers | Stskeeps: anything you suggest checking out? | 00:56 |
| Stskeeps | r2d2rogers: maemopad? ;p | 00:57 |
| r2d2rogers | it's there, and works | 00:58 |
| Stskeeps | hehe, good | 00:58 |
| r2d2rogers | was going to make that the backoff shot, but boss walked in <G> | 00:58 |
| r2d2rogers | brb | 00:58 |
| * Stskeeps is pondering how to structure the development process of mer. | 00:58 | |
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| LinuxHack3r | Just thought of something...what sorta font stuff can you change on the 810? Could I use the Liberation fonts on it? | 00:59 |
| Jaffa | LinuxHack3r: Drop ttf files into ~/.fonts/. Use them. Job done. | 01:00 |
| r2d2rogers | Stskeeps: what are the options? <G> | 01:00 |
| LinuxHack3r | Jaffa: That'll work great once I get the thing. Can't wait. | 01:00 |
| Stskeeps | r2d2rogers: i'm a little dissatified with having a sprint which has goal of "basic installable image", and more thinking of structuring into release-often sprints, as in, sprint towards 0.7 for instance, set up some goals for 0.7 | 01:01 |
| Stskeeps | but i'm not sure what would work for very spread developers | 01:02 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: yes, "basic" isn't a well-defined goal. Something we learned at work when started doing agile (and I hate the word "sprint" for something you're supposed to do every 4 weeks. Sprints should be for big milestones, not every single iteration) | 01:02 |
| r2d2rogers | lap? | 01:02 |
| Jaffa | "period" and "timebox" are what we use, but then we're not using SCRUM - some other, slightly adapted, agile naming | 01:03 |
| Jaffa | Or, given we release at the end of every timebox, "release" would do it :-) | 01:03 |
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| Stskeeps | so maybe a model where there's a release every week, accompanied with "this week in Mer" blog post, where people commit to tasks for the next period, and hope to deliver that at end of week? | 01:05 |
| Stskeeps | week/two weeks | 01:06 |
| Jaffa | I'd say 2 weekly. | 01:06 |
| Jaffa | Yeah. | 01:06 |
| Jaffa | Otherwise you get into a branching nightmare for anything which might take longer than 2 weeks :-) | 01:06 |
| Stskeeps | *nod* | 01:06 |
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| Seb | hi everyone | 01:07 |
| Stskeeps | wello | 01:07 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: I assume you installed HomeDiskFree, on a mer-running device, from Extras through HAM? | 01:08 |
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| Seb | I recently got a n800 as a gift, and am wondering how to best make use of SDHC cards that came with it (one is 2GB, the other is 16GB) | 01:08 |
| * timelE61i ponders | 01:08 | |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: uhm, no, not directly, i needed python-hildondesktop to have an extra provides | 01:08 |
| timelE61i | could mer consider fixing the .po strings? :) | 01:08 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: and that's being built atm :) | 01:08 |
| timelE61i | Please :) | 01:08 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: happy for me to mark the existing HAM task on the blueprint as 100%? There's lots which can be done to it, but probably not part of the initial Merification | 01:08 |
| Stskeeps | timelE61i: which ones, 4001? | 01:08 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: yes, it's fine | 01:09 |
| Seb | for instance, i would like to install EasyDebian, which is apparently quite large, and i am confused as to where one can install apps on the n800 | 01:09 |
| Jaffa | timelE61i: I was thinking about this earlier. I thought of a few hacks one could do, but why bother? Nokia are going to have to do it through the SDK releases anyway | 01:09 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: ta | 01:09 |
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| timelE61i | jaffa: not 4001 | 01:09 |
| timelE61i | ham | 01:09 |
| Stskeeps | but fixing the .pos you mean | 01:10 |
| Seb | do they always try to go to the flash memory ? If so, how do I go about making the best us of those 2 cards ? | 01:10 |
| timelE61i | Jaffa: have you read bugs filed today? | 01:10 |
| Stskeeps | timelE61i: with the weird english strings? | 01:10 |
| Jaffa | timelE61i: oh? including the improved messages you were talking about earlier | 01:10 |
| timelE61i | Yes | 01:10 |
| Myrtti | I think I'm done for today | 01:10 |
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| timelE61i | Fwiw, i'm mostly walking through the whole fremantle string table | 01:10 |
| Seb | is there a channel best suited for end-user questions ? :) | 01:11 |
| Stskeeps | Seb: we always have http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums | 01:11 |
| Jaffa | timelE61i: I'd rather rant at Nokia for a bit (shoddy translations indicative of a general sloppiness to the detail which takes an adequate device to a great device) and then put a patch on Bugzilla and merge it into the mer branch. | 01:11 |
| timelE61i | Where possible i'm just going to file public bugs and pray someone forces them fixed | 01:11 |
| Seb | Stskeeps: yep, but I like IRC a lot :> | 01:11 |
| timelE61i | Jaffa: be my guest | 01:11 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: BTW, my HAM branch should probably be merged to the ~m-r one ASAP | 01:12 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: https://launchpad.net/~mer-committers feel free to sign up :) | 01:13 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: ta :-) | 01:14 |
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| webulator70 | Could someone help me with a small prob? | 01:20 |
| lardman | depends what it is; spit it out | 01:21 |
| Stskeeps | hmm, are there any "free" planet-sites? like, for creating your own | 01:22 |
| webulator70 | Fm radio on os2008s radio applet only plays fuzz | 01:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps? | 01:22 |
| Stskeeps | webulator70: plug in the headphones | 01:22 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: got a crazy idea.. | 01:22 |
| webulator70 | So the phones are anteae? | 01:23 |
| Stskeeps | webulator70: yes | 01:23 |
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| webulator70 | :PThanks | 01:23 |
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| webulator70 | Awsome | 01:24 |
| lardman | night chaps | 01:25 |
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| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: basically, we're dealing with widespread collaborative work, and microblogging seems to allow people to "catch up" - and having a planet feeding off these rss'es would be a way to render eachothers activities visible to eachother | 01:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaiku? | 01:25 |
| Stskeeps | maybe. | 01:25 |
| lcuk | irc :P | 01:25 |
| webulator70 | I cant seem to use my bt headset after pairing it | 01:26 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: i'm not too fond of their rss feeds though | 01:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | RSS feeds suck anyway | 01:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't know how people use them. | 01:26 |
| Stskeeps | as in, the way they drag them into channels | 01:26 |
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| * b-man|hacking uses rss feeds for important information | 01:27 | |
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| * FireFox ponders if palm pre will ever be able to run on our tablet since palm pre uses an arm ompa prosessor..... nah :P | 01:32 | |
| FireFox | (sdk) | 01:32 |
| Jaffa | FireFox: Do you think Windows CE will ever run on our tablets since it uses an ARM processor? Or EPOC? | 01:32 |
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| FireFox | no, because we would need to create a costom bootloader for wince.. witch would be a licencing nightmare | 01:34 |
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| Jaffa | Indeed. Why would Palm Pre be any different? | 01:34 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa - Dream Killer | 01:36 |
| FireFox | because, if i am correct, palm pre uses a linux core witch (could) function with our bootloader | 01:36 |
| FireFox | kinda like Android.. | 01:36 |
| Jaffa | Android's open source and designed to be ported. | 01:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Pre isn't open like Android. | 01:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Palm makes its money off the hardware | 01:36 |
| FireFox | i know, that would be another problem ;p | 01:37 |
| Jaffa | There's no evidence at all that Pre will be open - which given the competitive edge it (may) give them, would be surprising | 01:37 |
| Jaffa | The kernel is such a tiny component of the problem | 01:37 |
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| t_s_o | hmm, TI released a opengl driver for omap3?! | 01:48 |
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| Jaffa | t_s_o: no | 01:49 |
| t_s_o | ok, seems there has been some confusion, crap... | 01:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | t_s_o, Pandora people are, apparently, idiots. | 01:50 |
| t_s_o | GeneralAntilles: heh, maybe so... | 01:50 |
| Jaffa | timelE61i: yeah | 01:52 |
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| Jaffa | *cough* | 01:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | t_s_o, the sad part is that they seem to have announced it twice in two days. | 01:52 |
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| * ENTERANICK [W2I=000:u:0:000:] | 01:53 | |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: worth splitting the Mer pages into a series of sub-pages (e.g. wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Introduction Mer/Development_process Mer/Releases etc.)? | 01:53 |
| glass | the problem with announcing vapor shit is that people read the first announcement and not the correction and then go shout it like the fanboys they are(the fanboys who've pre-ordered) | 01:54 |
| t_s_o | GeneralAntilles: could be a case of inmates running the asylum ;) | 01:54 |
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| Stskeeps | Jaffa: yes, once i'm done butchering it today :P | 01:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | t_s_o, oh, like here? ;) | 01:54 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: cool, I'll leave you to it and try and take this opportunity to go to bed. | 01:54 |
| t_s_o | GeneralAntilles: heh, here its only the software part... | 01:54 |
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| AStorm | t_s_o: but we can actually write the driver ourselves | 01:56 |
| AStorm | a gallium backend | 01:56 |
| AStorm | unlike now | 01:56 |
| t_s_o | AStorm: not that i find it likely to ever happen tho :P | 01:56 |
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| AStorm | uhm? | 01:58 |
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| AStorm | just alter it to run llvm-compiled armel code on the chip | 01:59 |
| AStorm | for starters | 01:59 |
| * FireFox wonders if it is time to start saving money for an "N900".. | 01:59 | |
| Jaffa | FireFox: or time to start really putting loads of effort into big impact community efforts and hope there's a discount programme | 02:00 |
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| FireFox | shure... ;p | 02:01 |
| AStorm | FireFox: I'm saving since I bought the n810 | 02:02 |
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| AStorm | so I have enough | 02:02 |
| m0z_work | is there any rumours of roughly when the 900 may be released? | 02:02 |
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| AStorm | m0z_work: fremantle is likely to show around summer... I'd guess then? | 02:02 |
| Jaffa | m0z_work: Next Summer, or thereabouts. | 02:02 |
| t_s_o | end of 2009 at earliest | 02:02 |
| Jaffa | October 21st, 2015 | 02:03 |
| t_s_o | :P | 02:03 |
| AStorm | Jaffa: ;) | 02:03 |
| * FireFox works on merinstaller some more.. | 02:05 | |
| * FireFox made $1200.00 last summer ;) - but that's reserved for a future Dell Studio 15 | 02:05 | |
| timelE61i | gAn: they don't have a monopoly on that | 02:12 |
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| GAN800 | timelE61i, hehe, well. . . . ;) | 02:14 |
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| * FireFox needs to go, somehow got involved with some theater business | 02:16 | |
| Jaffa | Right. Bed. | 02:17 |
| Jaffa | g'night | 02:17 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: can you also document how the dev process should work (personal branches when working on big things perhaps, but also how they should be merged. Is it a new branch working copy of ~mer-committers, a pull from ~aflegg, a commit then a push?) | 02:26 |
| * Jaffa can find no good information on how to actually best use Launchpad and bzr. | 02:26 | |
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| Stskeeps | Jaffa: yeah, working on it :) | 02:29 |
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| Jaffa | cool. I *think* I've done it right. bzr branch lp:~mer-committers/...; cd hildon-application-manager; bzr pull lp:~aflegg/....; bzr push lp:~mer-committers ... | 02:32 |
| Jaffa | Now I need to bed. | 02:32 |
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| Jaffa | Properly. | 02:32 |
| Stskeeps | as we witness jaffa's transformation into a mer developer.. like johnx and me, trying to cheat sleep ;) | 02:34 |
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| Jaffa | I've got baby bottles to fill with water downstairs too. | 02:34 |
| Jaffa | I'm gone | 02:34 |
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| Jaffa|gone | see | 02:34 |
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| Stskeeps | alright, for people involved in Mer or those who want to be, http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer , and read through http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Sprints , sign up by an e-mail to me so we can get you listed and keep a bit track of who would be capable of what :) | 03:08 |
| Stskeeps | i've tried to structure things in a more clearer way, so :) | 03:08 |
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| * ENTERANICK [W2I=000:u:0:000:] | 03:26 | |
| Mousey | looks ipv6ish | 03:26 |
| Mousey | not enough :'s tho | 03:27 |
| Mousey | oh, and "u" isn't hex | 03:27 |
| * Mousey just shuts up | 03:27 | |
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| Stskeeps | Mousey: or MS comic chat | 03:28 |
| Mousey | whats that mean? software isn't panning out anymore, so microsoft is going into the comic biz? | 03:28 |
| Stskeeps | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microsoft_Comic_Chat | 03:29 |
| Mousey | holy shit, it's jerkcity | 03:30 |
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| sisto | Obama got owned | 03:30 |
| sisto | they gave him a windows mobile pda | 03:31 |
| sisto | http://www.boygeniusreport.com/2009/01/21/obama-keeps-berry-for-personal-use-uses-clunky-sectera-edge-for-official-business/ | 03:31 |
| Mousey | crap, so much for hope | 03:31 |
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| doc|home | wtf is a classified usb port? | 03:39 |
| Mousey | it's like an unclassified usb port, but i'm not allowed to tell you about it | 03:39 |
| * doc|home waterboards Mousey | 03:39 | |
| * Mousey insurges! | 03:39 | |
| doc|home | oh wait, only presidents are allowed to do that | 03:40 |
| Mousey | but ANYBODY can be a terrorist =) | 03:40 |
| doc|home | and that's why they have you by the balls :) | 03:40 |
| doc|home | "I'm sorry sir, but we believe you to be a terrorist and are going to shoot you in the face" | 03:40 |
| sisto | does the nsa have access to the source code? | 03:40 |
| Mousey | no trial for j00! | 03:40 |
| Mousey | it's windows! so yes | 03:41 |
| doc|home | hahaha | 03:41 |
| sisto | it looks like a 90's pda | 03:43 |
| sisto | will it run maemo? | 03:44 |
| sisto | or better... | 03:44 |
| sisto | will it run crysis? | 03:44 |
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| Mousey | heh | 03:46 |
| Mousey | wtf is a trusted LCD? | 03:46 |
| sisto | lol | 03:48 |
| sisto | it tells you when the other one is lying | 03:48 |
| AStorm | nah | 03:48 |
| AStorm | it blurs the screen when you play DRMed content | 03:49 |
| Mousey | hahaha | 03:49 |
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| jaem | hello everybody | 03:59 |
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| jaem | has anyone gotten the built-in chat to work properly with multiple accounts using the same login name? | 04:00 |
| Mousey | apt-get install pidgin | 04:01 |
| jaem | yes, I thought aboiut that | 04:02 |
| Mousey | ^_^ | 04:02 |
| jaem | but does it have proper integration yet? | 04:02 |
| Mousey | whats that mean | 04:02 |
| jaem | I haven't tried it in a while | 04:02 |
| Raytray | There an option on pidgin to make the full screen keyboard hit send instead of return when I hit the enter button? | 04:02 |
| jaem | well, in terms of full hildonization, as well as notifications (e.g LED) | 04:02 |
| Mousey | thats among the regular pidgin options i beleve | 04:02 |
| Mousey | oh yea, and there's a LED notification plugin, has been for a while | 04:03 |
| Mousey | but the contacts menu item is useless | 04:03 |
| Raytray | Mousey, Hmm.. and yet it alluds me. brb while I hunt for it. | 04:03 |
| jaem | okay - I hadn't looked into it, because I was hoping they would fix the default app | 04:03 |
| jaem | I filed a bug on that issue ages ago, and never heard back :S | 04:03 |
| Mousey | Raytray: yah man, it's called n800 LED something | 04:03 |
| jaem | thanks, Mousey | 04:03 |
| Mousey | default schmefault... pidgin! =) | 04:03 |
| jaem | I do like Pidgin... | 04:04 |
| Mousey | i don't | 04:04 |
| Raytray | Mousey, I was referring to... | 04:04 |
| jaem | but I like Kopete rather better | 04:04 |
| Mousey | its just the best of the worst | 04:04 |
| Raytray | There an option on pidgin to make the full screen keyboard hit send instead of return when I hit the enter button? | 04:04 |
| Mousey | jaem: if kopete (or KDE for that matter) did SOCKS proxies properly, i'd like it more | 04:04 |
| jaem | mousey: it doesn't? | 04:04 |
| jaem | to be honest, I haven't tried that | 04:04 |
| Mousey | Raytray: oh. hang on | 04:04 |
| jaem | I haven't been running KDE much since I sold my laptop | 04:05 |
| jaem | and I have little need to run SOCKS for my desktop | 04:05 |
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| Raytray | Heh, you don't need to keep your toes warm? :P | 04:05 |
| jaem | Raytray: that's what the USB slippers from DealExtreme are for :P | 04:05 |
| jaem | although I don't have any | 04:06 |
| Raytray | lol | 04:06 |
| jaem | on that topic... is there a way of configuring the tablet to use a SOCKS proxy? I noticed some config entries for it, but nothing I could decipher | 04:06 |
| jaem | I mean globally | 04:06 |
| Mousey | ctrl-enter sends | 04:06 |
| born2wonder | has anybody tried b-man's rootfs for ubunty jaunty. I keep getting an unexpected EOF error when i extract it | 04:06 |
| Raytray | Hmm, wonder if I could convert my computer to a footrest/warmer | 04:06 |
| Raytray | Mousey, onscreen keyboard? | 04:06 |
| * Raytray has an n800 | 04:06 | |
| jaem | Raytray: just get a couple quad-core boxen - the whole room will be toasty | 04:06 |
| Mousey | there's no ctrl on the onscreen keyboard? | 04:06 |
| Raytray | There's no multitouch? | 04:07 |
| jaem | Raytray: and if that isn't good enough, put your computer in a toaster, like that guy somewhere on the Net | 04:07 |
| jaem | and no | 04:07 |
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| Raytray | Oh and I can't see the ctrl button either :D | 04:07 |
| Raytray | lol jaem. | 04:07 |
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| jaem | personally, I'm waiting for the KDE devs to release plasma-mid | 04:08 |
| * Raytray is stuck on kde 3.5 :D | 04:08 | |
| Raytray | Forget 4. >.> | 04:08 |
| jaem | Raytray: do you know what 4.2's codename is? | 04:08 |
| Raytray | Nope. | 04:09 |
| jaem | "The Answer" | 04:09 |
| Raytray | I think I heard it somewhere though. | 04:09 |
| jaem | :D | 04:09 |
| Raytray | lol | 04:09 |
| jaem | hmm... I've tried Debian on my N810, but I keep running into pointer calibration issues | 04:09 |
| jaem | I couldn't find anything conclusive on ITT\ | 04:10 |
| jaem | any ideas? | 04:10 |
| Raytray | No idea, sorry. | 04:10 |
| jaem | I heard something about copying the calibration data from Maemo over | 04:10 |
| jaem | but I don't know where that's stored | 04:10 |
| jaem | (not that I've really looked) | 04:10 |
| jaem | my cursor has rendering issues right now... so the Hand looks like it's giving your the Ol' Binary 4 | 04:11 |
| jaem | lol | 04:11 |
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| jaem | thanks for the help | 04:17 |
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| AFBN810 | is there a way to use name completion on tablet version of xchat | 05:26 |
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| Mousey | tab | 05:42 |
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| fireun | http://www.physorg.com/news151780812.html | 06:05 |
| fireun | this is old news, right? | 06:05 |
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| Mousey | woah | 06:08 |
| Mousey | i totally didn't expect that | 06:09 |
| tank-man | sounds old | 06:09 |
| Mousey | now they're collectors items | 06:09 |
| TrueJournals | it's not really "old", but it's not new | 06:09 |
| fireun | get em while you can? | 06:10 |
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| fireun | maybe they did a deal with clearwire, and so will only be "bundled" | 06:10 |
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| TrueJournals | http://www.mobileburn.com/news.jsp?Id=5986 -- Jan 7th | 06:11 |
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| b-man | what?!? 0_o | 06:13 |
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| * b-man is shocked | 06:14 | |
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| johnx | mornin' all | 06:15 |
| TrueJournals | That wimax edition is discontinued? Or is that sarcasm :P | 06:15 |
| luke-jr | b-man: what use was it? | 06:15 |
| luke-jr | does anyone actually use wimax? | 06:15 |
| fireun | I'd buy em at discount prices (: | 06:16 |
| luke-jr | well, sure, who wouldn't? | 06:16 |
| fireun | "distributors asked to return unsold units" | 06:16 |
| fireun | what else will they do with em? | 06:16 |
| b-man | g'mornin johnx | 06:16 |
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| fireun | if I could only trade 770s for a wimax 810 today.. | 06:17 |
| johnx | some people seemed really happy with them in the areas they were supported | 06:17 |
| johnx | there are ~5 wimax tablet users active on ITT who for the most part have said nothing but good things | 06:17 |
| fireun | I wouldnt say wimax is dead, its just typical US slow adoption. | 06:17 |
| johnx | well, hopefully it picks up | 06:18 |
| fireun | hopefully a more than a few things in the US pick up | 06:19 |
| johnx | yes :) | 06:19 |
| johnx | like the metric system conversion | 06:19 |
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| fireun | the metric system is just confusing, moving the comma around n'all | 06:21 |
| fireun | how many cups in a quart again? or wait, is it pints to a quart? | 06:21 |
| TrueJournals | We just need to follow the guidelines: http://xkcd.com/526/ | 06:21 |
| luke-jr | what makes WiMax better than GPRS or such? | 06:21 |
| fireun | and how come a pint of milk is not what I would consider equal to a pint of beer | 06:21 |
| luke-jr | fireun: … don't you know your binary units? | 06:21 |
| fireun | luke-jr: sorry </sarcasm filter> | 06:22 |
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| johnx | luke-jr, well, from a technical standpoint it's faster and from an economic point it's not tied to US celluar carriers | 06:22 |
| fireun | yeah, how do you SELL wimax? | 06:22 |
| johnx | "Come here! Get your hot, fresh wimax! $5!" | 06:23 |
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| fireun | johnx: now if only the wireless spectrum had a bazaar like that, where you could see what services were offering in your area | 06:24 |
| fireun | and pick which one you want (and magicaly it is paid for, somehow, securely, and transparently) | 06:25 |
| fireun | its all a mess. | 06:25 |
| johnx | well, intel is pushing it, so you might just see it in most laptops pretty soon | 06:25 |
| johnx | after that it's just a matter of bundling an ad for it with new laptops | 06:25 |
| fireun | we've talked about this before, wimax will never be noticed by the consumer, all they see is "my network works" | 06:26 |
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| johnx | the only place it will be noticed is in places with crappy (landline) ISPs | 06:26 |
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| Pavlz | hello | 06:45 |
| yigal | hey due | 06:45 |
| yigal | s/due/dude | 06:45 |
| Pavlz | where can i find the command line whois for nokia 770 os 2006 ? | 06:46 |
| yigal | Pavlz: jeez your using 2006? | 06:46 |
| Pavlz | yes | 06:46 |
| yigal | wow, not sure, that's just insane to hear though | 06:47 |
| TrueJournals | Pavlz: You can try http://http.us.debian.org/debian/pool/main/w/whois/whois_4.7.30_armel.deb | 06:49 |
| TrueJournals | Not sure if it will work or not, though | 06:49 |
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| TrueJournals | You'll probably have to dpkg -i it | 06:50 |
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| Mousey | whois isn't in maemo? | 06:52 |
| Mousey | oh, 770 | 06:52 |
| Pavlz | incompatible the package | 06:55 |
| Pavlz | and this why it's more recent | 06:55 |
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| Pavlz | :-( | 06:56 |
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| Pavlz | for ssh ? | 07:01 |
| johnx | Pavlz, that's in extras | 07:03 |
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| r2d2rogers | johnx: did you see? the 770 is working great with your sapwood. | 07:03 |
| johnx | r2d2rogers, that's great! Just keep in mind I did nothing but an easy compile job. :) | 07:04 |
| johnx | RST38h and Stskeeps are the ones who caught this bug...though I sure have been chasing it for a long time O_o; | 07:04 |
| r2d2rogers | I'm just glad it's working ;) | 07:05 |
| johnx | yeah, that is quite awesome | 07:05 |
| r2d2rogers | now time to get wireless and bluetooth working | 07:05 |
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| Pavlz | i don't know where to search | 07:08 |
| johnx | Pavlz, gronmayer.com/it | 07:09 |
| johnx | but *don't* just add all the repos there. add them only as you need them | 07:09 |
| johnx | the first repo to add is extras though: http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras | 07:10 |
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| Mousey | johnx: i LOVED adding all the repos there | 07:16 |
| Mousey | =) | 07:16 |
| Mousey | but i'm a freak | 07:16 |
| johnx | didn't that end up putting you in a reboot loop or keep you from upgrading? I thought I remembered you have problems with it... | 07:17 |
| Mousey | nope | 07:17 |
| Mousey | you should see my debian sources.list too | 07:18 |
| Mousey | in fact | 07:18 |
| Mousey | http://ross154.net/~mprov/MASTER.sources.list | 07:18 |
| johnx | debuntu sources.list is a little bit different | 07:18 |
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| johnx | a base debian/ubuntu system has almost all of what any 3rd party projects could need so conflicts are less likely | 07:18 |
| johnx | anyways, it's still not recommended even if you had no problems with it. The fact is that other people have and it's no fun debugging... :/ | 07:19 |
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| * b-man sleeps, g'night everyone | 07:37 | |
| johnx | 'night b-man | 07:38 |
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| Pavlz | hello | 08:12 |
| Pavlz | where can i find the command line whois for nokia 770 ? | 08:14 |
| Pavlz | i found openssh-client | 08:15 |
| johnx | it might be easiest to compile it yourself | 08:16 |
| Pavlz | now i need only of this last one | 08:16 |
| Pavlz | the ubuntu i got on the tower pc does not work fine | 08:17 |
| Pavlz | infact it doesn't authorize updates | 08:17 |
| Pavlz | so gcc is not inside | 08:18 |
| Pavlz | and i must to do a backup first to / GNU Deb-Ian | 08:19 |
| Pavlz | where is the old wiki ? | 08:27 |
| johnx | it's replaced by the new one | 08:31 |
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| Pavlz | and the applications ? | 08:33 |
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| johnx | some of the old repositories were closed down I think. many old things are now in extras | 08:34 |
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| Pavlz | well stupid thing | 08:37 |
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| RST38h | moo all | 09:18 |
| johnx | m00f | 09:18 |
| * johnx yawns | 09:19 | |
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| Pavlz | i don't find the command whois for nokia 770 | 09:24 |
| johnx | I think you'll need to compile it yourself in scratchbox | 09:25 |
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| Pavlz | i don't find no binary and no source | 09:27 |
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| Pavlz | I invite maemo to put to disposition the older source code and binary | 09:31 |
| Pavlz | I go to sleep | 09:32 |
| johnx | ok | 09:32 |
| Pavlz | We see this evening | 09:33 |
| johnx | Pavlz, anyways, when you wakeup, get the source from the debian package and compile in scratchbox | 09:33 |
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| Pavlz | Is possible to remove the logo nokia at the boot | 09:36 |
| Pavlz | and shutdown | 09:36 |
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| Pavlz | and see the init as happen in any distribution of GNU/linux ? | 09:37 |
| johnx | I don't know how to do that for the 770. sorry :( | 09:39 |
| Pavlz | thanks | 09:40 |
| Pavlz | i go why my eyes are closing | 09:40 |
| johnx | good night | 09:40 |
| Pavlz | if you want to communicate me anything | 09:41 |
| Pavlz | you can write to ninuxpdb@gmail.com | 09:41 |
| Pavlz | bye bye | 09:41 |
| Pavlz | Paolo | 09:42 |
| Stskeeps | johnx, http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer and http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Sprints | 09:42 |
| Stskeeps | objections? just add yourself to participants list | 09:42 |
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| johnx | so .7 by feb 1st? | 09:42 |
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| johnx | also, we'll end up with our own package of openssh-server? | 09:48 |
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| johnx | as for openssh...that and possibly some other packages could benefit from being installed with --unpack and having --configure run on first-boot | 09:55 |
| johnx | starting to think grim thoughts about ending up pulling in debian-installer :/ | 09:56 |
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| Stskeeps | 0.7 is just release often and wrap up often | 10:04 |
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| aquatix | timeless: sorry for the late reply, but i didn't look at the Dutch translation yet | 10:09 |
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| Jaffa | morning, all | 10:18 |
| * johnx heads out to work, will hack on the train... | 10:18 | |
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| X-Fade | Morning | 10:23 |
| Myrtti | hello | 10:26 |
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| RST38h | johnx: http://www.mobilemag.com/content/100/342/C5888/ | 10:38 |
| Jaffa | Hmm. Hildon's confused and showing me the vim icon for X Terminal | 10:39 |
| RST38h | ah, you already commented on this thread =) | 10:39 |
| aquatix | Jaffa: vim isn't a terminal? | 10:39 |
| aquatix | ;) | 10:39 |
| Jaffa | Well, the vim launcher does start a terminal, but that's beside the point ;-) | 10:43 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: shouldn't the HAM task be in 0.7? (and, having a) got used to; b) starting to like bzr & LP, I see a 0.7 tasks to move to garage & git) | 10:45 |
| Macer | :) | 10:48 |
| Macer | running kubuntu instead of osx on my macbook has made me a happy person | 10:48 |
| Myrtti | I just realized I don't have LaTeX and Auctex installed on my laptop... | 10:48 |
| Myrtti | *sigh* | 10:48 |
| Jaffa | Really? | 10:48 |
| aquatix | Myrtti: that's a miss indeed | 10:49 |
| Myrtti | atleast I do have emacs already | 10:49 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: yes, true, my bad | 10:53 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: mind if I do some prettification on the Mer page (include wazd's logo, for example) | 11:01 |
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| StsN800 | go ahead, you can move the task too | 11:02 |
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| Macer | boston legal is one of hte best shows ever | 11:03 |
| Macer | it's almost as good as west wing | 11:04 |
| gladiac | I prefer Dr. House | 11:04 |
| Macer | know what.. i know they are putting out new episodes but i really just stopped liking it after they got the new doctors | 11:05 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: hopefully the frontpage is a bit nicer now. Ideally I'd pull across some of the large friendly buttons from http://www.bleb.org/software/maemo/maemo-org_mockup.png for getting involved & downloading | 11:26 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: At least they are finger friendly ;) | 11:29 |
| Jaffa | :) | 11:29 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: Once 1.0 is released, I think the main mer page should look more like http://www.getfirefox.com/ - logo, large text and easy download at top; detail underneath | 11:30 |
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| Jaffa | X-Fade: have we a mediawiki plugin installed which lets us embed RSS feeds? | 11:46 |
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| Stslaptop | http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:RSS_Reader | 11:48 |
| Jaffa | Yeah, just looking at that. Would be good to add the #mer RSS to the page | 11:48 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: We don't have it installed, but I can check what it needs.. | 11:48 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: cool, ta. | 11:49 |
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| Stslaptop | Jaffa: saw quim's reply on redistribution? | 11:54 |
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| Jaffa | Stslaptop: yes, promising :) | 11:54 |
| Stslaptop | indeed, except now we have to make a wishlist :P | 11:54 |
| Jaffa | True | 11:55 |
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| timelE61i | pRogress? | 11:55 |
| Stslaptop | yes, indeed | 11:56 |
| timelE61i | Dneary: Ping | 11:56 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Should work now.. | 11:56 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: cool, let me try | 11:56 |
| timelE61i | Could you please not write dates as xx/yy/zzzz unless xx is month? | 11:56 |
| dneary | timelE61i: pong | 11:56 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Maybe we need to add some CSS, but it at least seems to display feed items. | 11:57 |
| dneary | timelE61i: Is that date thing what you wanted to tell me? | 11:57 |
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| dneary | Almost everywhere in the world we have dd/mm/yyyy | 11:57 |
| dneary | And Americans are very adaptable | 11:57 |
| Jaffa | yyyy-MM-dd is the best, non-confusing, ISO8601-compliant date format IMHO | 11:57 |
| dneary | They'll get used to it :) | 11:57 |
| X-Fade | dneary: Use yyyy/mm/dd, so there is no confusion. | 11:57 |
| Stslaptop | yeah, i'm with jaffa on it | 11:57 |
| dneary | Jaffa: Indeed, I will try to use yyyy-mm-dd | 11:57 |
| X-Fade | That date format sorts nicely too ;) | 11:58 |
| dneary | or dd MMM yyyy | 11:58 |
| timelE61i | Yes | 11:58 |
| X-Fade | On the site we try to use yyyy-mm-dd everythere. | 11:58 |
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| Stslaptop | Jaffa: the question is also if he means technical blockers as well as "things that would make Mer closer to Diablo on the nokia tablets so they don't loose anyhing" | 11:59 |
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| timelE61i | sts lOse | 12:00 |
| Stslaptop | timelE61i: fair enough. I haven't had my morning coffee yet :P | 12:00 |
| * timelE61i looses grammar attack dogs at sts | 12:00 | |
| timelE61i | sorry. Speaking of Engrish | 12:00 |
| timelE61i | The 770 shipped w/ maemo blocks | 12:01 |
| timelE61i | game over | 12:01 |
| timelE61i | You loose | 12:01 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: looks good | 12:01 |
| timelE61i | Which is a terrible insult | 12:01 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Great! | 12:01 |
| timelE61i | (to females) | 12:01 |
| aquatix | timelE61i: it is? | 12:01 |
| timelE61i | Aquatix: loose would mean morally loose | 12:01 |
| aquatix | oh | 12:02 |
| timelE61i | (sleep w/ anyone) | 12:02 |
| aquatix | wouldn't that need the word `are' in that sentence too? | 12:02 |
| timelE61i | not absolutely | 12:02 |
| aquatix | i don't quite see how that sentence is insulting apart from implying "Loser!" | 12:02 |
| timelE61i | Loose != lose | 12:03 |
| aquatix | ah :) | 12:03 |
| aquatix | i think i get your point now ;) | 12:03 |
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| timelE61i | it took me a while to get that fixed too | 12:03 |
| Stslaptop | hm, beagleboard + maemo stuff on fosdem | 12:03 |
| aquatix | Stslaptop: ooh | 12:04 |
| timelE61i | That may have been the first one i got fixed... | 12:04 |
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| timelE61i | It's also stupid to use "you lose" for a tetris like game | 12:04 |
| aquatix | heh, true | 12:04 |
| timelE61i | yet another example of a lack of any review | 12:04 |
| timelE61i | "does this make sense?" | 12:04 |
| timelE61i | No! | 12:05 |
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| * timelE61i could easily write a blog dedicated to nit linugistic fluns | 12:06 | |
| timelE61i | flubs | 12:06 |
| timelE61i | One article every weekday | 12:06 |
| timelE61i | For a year | 12:06 |
| aquatix | thedailynittranslationswtf.com ;) | 12:06 |
| Stslaptop | i'm sure it'll get on planet maemo | 12:06 |
| Stslaptop | :P | 12:06 |
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| aquatix | :) | 12:07 |
| timelE61i | :) | 12:07 |
| johnx|z | :) ? | 12:07 |
| aquatix | not sure how well it'll be for timelE61i's career | 12:07 |
| aquatix | hey johnx|z :P | 12:07 |
| Stslaptop | morning johnx|z | 12:07 |
| johnx|z | hey | 12:07 |
| aquatix | we're just smiling friendly at you | 12:07 |
| timelE61i | I would only do it after leaving nokia | 12:07 |
| johnx|z | ah :D | 12:07 |
| timelE61i | I like trying to fix things | 12:08 |
| aquatix | timelE61i: ah :) | 12:08 |
| aquatix | you're doing a great job imho | 12:08 |
| timelE61i | But if they don't like it, then ... | 12:08 |
| Stslaptop | johnx|z: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2009-January/002946.html , a must read | 12:08 |
| johnx|z | Stslaptop: ok (need to figure out how to use irssi better) | 12:09 |
| aquatix | Stslaptop: nice | 12:10 |
| * timelE61i sighs | 12:13 | |
| timelE61i | This is really bad | 12:13 |
| timelE61i | I read that link and the only part i noticed was "relevant for 3rd parties components" | 12:14 |
| timelE61i | anyone here want to explain to the nonnatives why that's wrong? | 12:14 |
| johnx|z | cant (figure out how to) follow links. whats the title? | 12:15 |
| Stslaptop | johnx: oh, it's a response to the commmunity firmware stuff | 12:16 |
| Stslaptop | -m | 12:16 |
| Stslaptop | timelE61i: we knew it advance there was issues with 3rd party stuff, not-so-much with nokia software | 12:16 |
| Stslaptop | it=in | 12:16 |
| timelE61i | sTs: yep, and your wording isn't flawed | 12:17 |
| johnx|z | ah. that's about the response i expected | 12:17 |
| Stslaptop | johnx|z: worst part we have to make a big list now :P | 12:17 |
| johnx|z | its not *too* long :) | 12:17 |
| * timelE61i wonders if any nonnatives here can see the difference between the quote and sts's note | 12:17 | |
| timelE61i | flash | 12:18 |
| timelE61i | Skype | 12:18 |
| timelE61i | Rhapsody | 12:18 |
| timelE61i | Maps | 12:18 |
| Stslaptop | timelE61i: yeah, we've had the discussion about those | 12:18 |
| timelE61i | is there quicktime support? | 12:18 |
| johnx|z | timelE61i: i guess n8x0 users of mer will be interested in those but they're largely uninteresting to me... | 12:18 |
| timelE61i | mpeg | 12:18 |
| johnx|z | mpeg? mplayer is faster anyways :) | 12:19 |
| timelE61i | helix? | 12:19 |
| Stslaptop | timeless: only thing on that list that i use is skype, really | 12:19 |
| timelE61i | I'm not sure how mpeg licensing works | 12:19 |
| Stslaptop | timeless: the question isn't things that -can- be included by users, but things we -need- to provide as part of a firmware image to make it function | 12:20 |
| Stslaptop | many things can be dl'ed off the net | 12:20 |
| johnx|z | my interest: wifi firmware, bt firmware (?), bme | 12:20 |
| timelE61i | hrm | 12:20 |
| timelE61i | Which pieces prevent nokia from letting a random person d/l a random piece of a flash image? | 12:21 |
| Stslaptop | probably flash and such | 12:21 |
| Stslaptop | timelE61i: but yes, it's always possible to grab pieces from updates repositories.. | 12:22 |
| Stslaptop | :P | 12:22 |
| timelE61i | what's possible and what's lawful.... | 12:22 |
| Stslaptop | yeah :P | 12:22 |
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| timelE61i | Anyway... Do you need anything for camera/fmradio? | 12:23 |
| Stslaptop | fmradio i saw a python api for, so that should be trivial to implement an applet for | 12:23 |
| johnx|z | i think camera support is kernel based and open | 12:23 |
| timelE61i | speaking of dates | 12:25 |
| timelE61i | Could someone fix pipermail? | 12:25 |
| * timelE61i can file a bug if necessary | 12:25 | |
| Stslaptop | johnx|z: i think a prioritized table of things could be nice to make | 12:27 |
| johnx|z | ok, i can make a text file now and add to wiki later | 12:28 |
| X-Fade | timelE61i: Please do so. I need to create a new template for it soon and then I can take that issue at the same time. | 12:28 |
| Jaffa | Agreed. Things like battery charging, and any other low-level drivers/blobs | 12:28 |
| johnx|z | does bt need firmware of any type? | 12:28 |
| Stslaptop | johnx: i -think- so on 770 | 12:28 |
| Stslaptop | we might as well get 770 in the fold by now | 12:28 |
| Jaffa | timelE61i: Did "you lose" in blocks ever get changed from "you loose" - which was even worse | 12:28 |
| johnx|z | yes. definitely | 12:30 |
| * Jaffa takes the little 'uns to Gym Club | 12:30 | |
| johnx|z | guess we should get dsme and its modules just to be complete... | 12:30 |
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| timelE61i | jAffa iirc i finally managed to get it fixed | 12:30 |
| timelE61i | i can't remember for when | 12:31 |
| timelE61i | the funny part there... | 12:31 |
| timelE61i | The "text" was painted onto an unlocalized picture | 12:32 |
| timelE61i | So it didn't matter what language you spoke | 12:32 |
| timelE61i | We always insulted your sister in English | 12:32 |
| timelE61i | (?) This system has 226 unsent core files. Send for analysis? | 12:33 |
| timelE61i | hrm, i can't seem to actually *play* maemo blocks | 12:34 |
| * timelE61i taps continue | 12:34 | |
| johnx|z | does gps need anything special? what about agps? | 12:34 |
| timelE61i | agps probably needs a service | 12:35 |
| Stslaptop | johnx|z: think we can prioritize them as "needed as part of firmware image" "would be useful as part of firmware image" "could be useful to modify packaging, repackage and possible to download if providing MAC address" | 12:35 |
| Stslaptop | or something | 12:35 |
| johnx|z | Stslaptop: ok. pretty much how i organized it | 12:35 |
| Stslaptop | as in, the extreme example of flash - people can -possibly- download this from a nokia repository (i know this is a pipe dream) | 12:36 |
| johnx|z | timelE61i: i mean anything non-free on the device | 12:36 |
| timelE61i | Can someone run maemo blobks and use "ps" to find out what processes it includes | 12:36 |
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| aquatix | timelE61i: sec | 12:37 |
| Stslaptop | i really wonder about updates repository, i mean, why some random password instead of simply providing a negotiating step with EULA and MAC address provide? :P | 12:37 |
| * timelE61i sees 2 maemoblocks_startups and nothing else | 12:37 | |
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| aquatix | timelE61i: yeah, that :/ | 12:38 |
| Wooly | morning all | 12:38 |
| johnx|z | hi Wooly | 12:38 |
| timelE61i | aquatix: try this | 12:38 |
| aquatix | /usr/bin/maemoblocks_startup /usr/share/maemoblocks/m | 12:38 |
| Wooly | this may be a silly question, but why when I run af-sb-init.sh inside scratchbox, does the simulated desktop look completely different from my actual n810 desktop | 12:39 |
| timelE61i | Start game; hardware home; tap game; change block speed to 20; Tap continue a dozen times | 12:39 |
| johnx|z | Wooly: yes :) | 12:39 |
| Wooly | i was just wondering why that was | 12:39 |
| timelE61i | Wooly: depends onwhat you've installed | 12:39 |
| Stslaptop | Wooly: on the other hand most of your SDK is open source | 12:39 |
| timelE61i | And on whether your screen res and colordepth are right | 12:39 |
| johnx|z | Wooly: its mostly because of things not included for various reasons | 12:40 |
| Stslaptop | which is not something you can say for your average android SDK :P | 12:40 |
| Wooly | ahh ok :) thanks | 12:40 |
| timelE61i | you can make your device more closely match the sdk by removing packages | 12:40 |
| timelE61i | Or you could transplant them if the sdk is arm | 12:41 |
| aquatix | timelE61i: "Game not started yet"? | 12:41 |
| Wooly | the sdk is arm yes | 12:41 |
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| timelE61i | did you skip a step? | 12:41 |
| Wooly | so I could transfer packages from my N810 to my SDK? | 12:41 |
| timelE61i | For me i'm at game paused | 12:41 |
| timelE61i | Wooly: you'd have to "make" such packages | 12:42 |
| aquatix | timelE61i: well, i had to first start it | 12:42 |
| Wooly | right. That's maybe something I can do later on | 12:42 |
| Wooly | cheers :) | 12:42 |
| Stslaptop | if it wasn't for the fact h-d will probably be replaced, Nokia should take a long hard look at hildon-theme-liberty | 12:42 |
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| Stslaptop | as part of SDK | 12:43 |
| timelE61i | the sdk people are fairly reasonable | 12:43 |
| lcuk | Stslaptop, (or more likely johnx) you want mer to work on various platforms, whats the realistic lower limit for screen resolution (effects which of the phone devices to look towards) | 12:43 |
| timelE61i | talk to them early and often | 12:43 |
| Stslaptop | lcuk: not sure | 12:43 |
| timelE61i | 320x240 is the (basement) floor | 12:44 |
| Stslaptop | lcuk: and the problem is also how many applications will look okay at that resolution :P | 12:44 |
| lcuk | timelE61i, depends on wha UI elements are required | 12:44 |
| Stslaptop | we can probably solve hildon-desktop in one or the other, but, apps are more difficult | 12:44 |
| lcuk | yeah | 12:45 |
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| lcuk | ipod touch would be nice cheap hardware to get mer onto :) | 12:45 |
| Stslaptop | mm, yeah, but their linux support isn't that good yet is it | 12:45 |
| timelE61i | Some day | 12:46 |
| lcuk | well johnx is already thinking lower than 800*480 res, its just to keep an eye on really | 12:46 |
| aquatix | ipod touch has really low res | 12:46 |
| timelE61i | Oh, i found my ipod touch | 12:46 |
| aquatix | only 320x480 :) | 12:46 |
| * lcuk personally wants 1024*768 mer :) | 12:46 | |
| aquatix | lcuk: ooh :) | 12:47 |
| timelE61i | Is that EEE or beagle? | 12:47 |
| Stslaptop | lcuk: http://irczilla.net/mer/Screenshot-1.png | 12:47 |
| lcuk | aquatix, at least as far as liqbase goes, thats not a problem | 12:47 |
| lcuk | neither, lenovo x41 tabletpc | 12:47 |
| aquatix | Stslaptop: ha | 12:47 |
| lcuk | running at 800mhz powersave mode :) | 12:48 |
| lcuk | oooooh Stslaptop | 12:48 |
| lcuk | and this is why mer is good :) | 12:48 |
| lcuk | i would like to get comfortable and relaxed with one single strong sane distro | 12:48 |
| Stslaptop | lcuk: thats early x86 btw | 12:49 |
| lcuk | yeah i know | 12:49 |
| timelE61i | early? | 12:49 |
| lcuk | ive seen it before, just being nice ;) | 12:49 |
| Stslaptop | timelE61i: as in, a hack :P | 12:49 |
| Stslaptop | i've had mer on x86 since day one since i work with mer as part of my work | 12:49 |
| * timelE61i grew up w/ a 386sx 33 w/ a turbo button | 12:49 | |
| Stslaptop | as providing a foundation for pervasive healthcare prototypes | 12:50 |
| timelE61i | (for games that needed 16) | 12:50 |
| timelE61i | Eww, you're trying to profit from the work we do | 12:50 |
| timelE61i | Traitor! | 12:50 |
| Stslaptop | timelE61i: research/university work | 12:51 |
| lcuk | everybody needs motivation | 12:51 |
| aquatix | timelE61i: ooh, we had a 33MHz 386 too | 12:51 |
| aquatix | only dx | 12:51 |
| aquatix | rather fast | 12:51 |
| Stslaptop | timelE61i: and the non-healthcare parts will be open source, so | 12:51 |
| lcuk | timelE61i, dont you profit by being employed by nokia? | 12:52 |
| timelE61i | i consider that recompense for anguish :) | 12:52 |
| lcuk | heh | 12:52 |
| lcuk | motivation is important, linux provides a perfect platform for many projects - as long as sts says it remains open then we all win | 12:53 |
| timelE61i | oH, i was only poking fun. Of course it's ok | 12:54 |
| timelE61i | It just seemed like the natural open source response :) | 12:54 |
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| timelE61i | oK, i can't download that picture | 12:57 |
| timelE61i | Stuck @40pct | 12:57 |
| timelE61i | Ok now that's great | 12:57 |
| timelE61i | My phone's browser just gave me a dialog: | 12:57 |
| timelE61i | Already downloading [green checkmark] | 12:58 |
| timelE61i | anyone here able to translate that dialog into English? :@ | 12:58 |
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| pupnik | already = already | 13:00 |
| pupnik | and | 13:00 |
| pupnik | downloading = downloading | 13:00 |
| aquatix | :) | 13:01 |
| timelE61i | Already downloading <what>? | 13:01 |
| timelE61i | And <why do i care>? | 13:01 |
| timelE61i | And <why should i be happy (green)>? | 13:02 |
| aquatix | just shut up and swallow the message ;) | 13:03 |
| aquatix | (and try again) | 13:03 |
| aquatix | well, i think it assumes you know what you just clicked | 13:03 |
| aquatix | so if you then get "Already downloading", you know | 13:04 |
| aquatix | maybe the checkmark means it's done already even? | 13:04 |
| timelE61i | nAh | 13:04 |
| timelE61i | I asked it to quit | 13:05 |
| timelE61i | So none of this makes sense :) | 13:05 |
| timelE61i | besides downloading != downloaded | 13:05 |
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| lcuk | timelE61i, you are on a mission regarding translation information messages. have you considered you are just hitting a senility wall :D | 13:11 |
| lcuk | (i actually think its really important as well, stupid messages rile me as well) | 13:11 |
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| timelE61i | it's a very wide wall | 13:12 |
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| lcuk | yeah, its an artform and never going to be perfect | 13:14 |
| lcuk | i would like to add a translate now button to message boxes :) for users/beta testers to submit translations of any message within an app | 13:14 |
| timelE61i | I'm not asking for perfect | 13:14 |
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| lcuk | (same for other things like bugreports/usability/documentation/examples and stuff but thats another issue) | 13:15 |
| timelE61i | How about something a 3rd grader wouldn't be embarassed by? | 13:15 |
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| lcuk | yeah, but as you said last night, usually because you dont have people from all cultures using the app its translated as realistically as it can be | 13:15 |
| lcuk | ie. i will write apps and all my messages will be written in _NORTHERN dialect, theres no way people will understand them | 13:16 |
| timelE61i | that's a polite paraphrase | 13:16 |
| lcuk | :) yes i translated it for you | 13:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | UPS, apparently, figured out they were shipping it to the wrong address. | 13:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Now, hopefully it makes it here early enough to get on the truck. | 13:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Say hello to wiki spam. | 13:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stslaptop, you're only digging yourself deeper. :D | 13:34 |
| Stslaptop | GeneralAntilles: sorry :) the blueprint was in dire need of getting split up | 13:36 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Stslaptop, drop the banner on https://wiki.maemo.org/Mer | 13:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | maemo.org is not Nokia | 13:37 |
| Stslaptop | GeneralAntilles, Jaffa's design, and what banner? :P | 13:37 |
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| GeneralAntilles | About Mer not being a Nokia project. | 13:37 |
| Stslaptop | fair enough | 13:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia stuff is clearly marked on maemo.org | 13:37 |
| woglinde | hi | 13:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | We shouldn't be marking our own stuff in our own domain. ;) | 13:38 |
| Stslaptop | we now have rss reader plugin in wiki if you want to make activity logs in sprints easier, it seems :) | 13:38 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Stslaptop, should I add my name to that list? :P | 13:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | "Public relations, Cheerleader" | 13:40 |
| Stslaptop | sure, send me an e-mail like it says on Mer/Sprints, and i'll add you :P | 13:41 |
| Stslaptop | it's just to keep track of people really | 13:41 |
| lcuk | Stslaptop, have you got a privacy policy about the use of my email address? | 13:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, every spambot he can find. | 13:42 |
| Stslaptop | lcuk: "it's not ending up on the public page" | 13:42 |
| Stslaptop | :P | 13:42 |
| lcuk | and GeneralAntilles do you actually have pompoms | 13:42 |
| Stslaptop | except if you need a jaiku invite | 13:42 |
| * lcuk has u on jaiku already a | 13:42 | |
| Stslaptop | yeah | 13:42 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, awww so liquid@gmail.com will be picked up and spammed? :( | 13:43 |
| lcuk | i should be very careful not to put liquid@gmail.com on anything public | 13:43 |
| woglinde | hi lcuk | 13:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, nah, but I could source some fairly quickly if need be. :P | 13:44 |
| lcuk | hiya woglinde | 13:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stslaptop, OK, I'm going to justify the documentation part right now. ;) | 13:44 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, i already get spam in hundreds per day - sometimes i end up with thousands | 13:45 |
| * lcuk once got joe jobbed and watched as 25000 mails came in as someone attempted to send mails to most people at hotmail and got rejected :'( | 13:45 | |
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| Khertan_n810 | Hello ! | 13:55 |
| woglinde | hi khertan | 13:55 |
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| Khertan_n810 | someone use mnotes here ? | 13:57 |
| Stslaptop | Khertan_n810: did you see my post that was directly directed to you? :> | 13:57 |
| Khertan_n810 | which one , | 13:57 |
| Khertan_n810 | ? | 13:57 |
| Khertan_n810 | it s seems not | 13:58 |
| Khertan_n810 | :) | 13:58 |
| Stslaptop | damnit, my server is down | 13:58 |
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| Khertan_n810 | where to ? | 13:58 |
| Stslaptop | sec :) | 13:58 |
| Khertan_n810 | yep | 13:58 |
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| Stslaptop | http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=259164&postcount=39 , but it has an image of http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-homediskfree.png and http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/mer-homediskfree2.png in it ;) | 13:59 |
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| aquatix | nice | 14:01 |
| Khertan_n810 | Hey ! | 14:02 |
| Khertan_n810 | NICE ! | 14:02 |
| Khertan_n810 | python is now available so ! | 14:02 |
| Khertan_n810 | hildon binding too ! | 14:02 |
| Khertan_n810 | thx ... | 14:02 |
| Stslaptop | hehe, yes | 14:02 |
| Stslaptop | python-gtk2, python-hildon, python-osso, python-conic, python-hildondesktop | 14:03 |
| Khertan_n810 | i ll try to found some time saturday to have a second boot with me on my nit | 14:03 |
| Stslaptop | hehe | 14:03 |
| Stslaptop | there's a weird bug but i think it has to deal with it not being 800x480 | 14:04 |
| Stslaptop | (maybe in hildon desktop) | 14:04 |
| Khertan_n810 | if i said that mnotes dev version sync with google docs are you interested ... or do you really need sync with evernotes ? | 14:05 |
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| Stslaptop | google docs or evernotes is good | 14:05 |
| Stslaptop | evernotes is good because a lot of students use it | 14:05 |
| Stslaptop | and if they can use the tablets to add notes or view notes on the go, that would help a lot of people to buy tablets | 14:05 |
| Khertan_n810 | there is no rendering it s text only for the moment until python binding for webkit willbe available | 14:05 |
| Stslaptop | *nod* | 14:06 |
| Khertan_n810 | nod ? | 14:06 |
| Stslaptop | yeah, that could be difficult | 14:06 |
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| Stslaptop | for Mer it might be easier as we have all python bindings | 14:07 |
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| Khertan_n810 | i look forwebkit as gtkhml2 doesnt permit to edit | 14:09 |
| Khertan_n810 | gtkhtml3 don t have binding and isn t available on nit | 14:10 |
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| Khertan_n810 | i don t know any other text widget which can render html and edit it | 14:11 |
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| Khertan_n810 | and my try with fckeditor in gtkhtml2 was a failure | 14:12 |
| Jaffa | ew | 14:12 |
| Jaffa | s/ew/re/ | 14:12 |
| Khertan_n810 | to slow to be usefull | 14:12 |
| Stslaptop | Jaffa: hah :P | 14:12 |
| lcuk | Khertan_n810, have you considered something like richtext - ie a bit less complex than full html | 14:12 |
| lcuk | with import export from/to | 14:12 |
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| GeneralAntilles | ew yourself, Jaffa. | 14:12 |
| lcuk | or are you wanting to do full palm pre type editing/config | 14:13 |
| aquatix | Jaffa: ew! | 14:13 |
| aquatix | erm, wb! | 14:13 |
| lcuk | lol | 14:13 |
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| Khertan_n810 | lcuk: yep but the problem is to avoid to break the document layout | 14:14 |
| Khertan_n810 | and rtf of TextView doesn t help | 14:14 |
| lcuk | how much formatting are you expecting though? fonts colors bold italics etc, or full on super duper formatting with subpixel accuracy | 14:15 |
| lcuk | and special html features (like tables and stuff) | 14:16 |
| aquatix | and style sheets | 14:17 |
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| lcuk | and macros | 14:18 |
| lcuk | maybe embedded flash content | 14:18 |
| lcuk | and a save as "Microsoft word" format :D | 14:18 |
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| aquatix | ghehe | 14:19 |
| aquatix | and export to pdf with interactive forms | 14:19 |
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| lcuk | it needs an assistant | 14:20 |
| lcuk | "it looks like you are touching my screen :: BUY A FRIKKING KEYBOARD" | 14:20 |
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| Khertan_at_work | re | 14:20 |
| Khertan_at_work | sorry n810 reboot suddently | 14:20 |
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| lcuk | khertan, has this started since you added pictures to mnotes - its notoriously unstable | 14:21 |
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| lcuk | aquatix, what other features does it need then? | 14:24 |
| Khertan_at_work | mnotes ? unstable ? | 14:24 |
| Khertan_at_work | not possible | 14:24 |
| Khertan_at_work | lcuk: this start before ... | 14:24 |
| Khertan_at_work | and i'm still doesn't understand why | 14:25 |
| lcuk | very defensive - i can get it doing really weird stuff and it gets confused easily | 14:25 |
| aquatix | lcuk: hmmm, maybe something with saving in the Cloud or something | 14:25 |
| lcuk | but as for the camera it locks up often when playing | 14:25 |
| lcuk | thats not specifically mnotes - the camera at full res crashes every app its used in | 14:25 |
| aquatix | lcuk: nah, that's because you have liqbase running in the background ;) | 14:25 |
| aquatix | hm, that's because of the driver or something? | 14:26 |
| lcuk | liqbase doesnt run inthe background :P | 14:26 |
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| lcuk | yeah aquatix, it seems to consume too much bandwidth over the little bus and stumbles more often than everything | 14:26 |
| aquatix | aha | 14:27 |
| lcuk | i thought id got past it myself in liqbase by running at only 8fps, but i managed to lock it enough to say bollocks to it and lowered the res again | 14:27 |
| * aquatix doesn't use it much | 14:27 | |
| aquatix | front-faced camera isn't that useful for me | 14:27 |
| lcuk | i was using it as a blit test for the new liqbase | 14:27 |
| aquatix | hm | 14:27 |
| lcuk | i had various copies of the camera image being stretchblitted all over hte shop | 14:27 |
| pupnik_ | someone should manufacture a bluetooth button camera | 14:27 |
| Khertan_at_work | lcuk> you have bugs ? when playing with cam ? | 14:27 |
| Khertan_at_work | i mean with mnotes ? | 14:28 |
| Khertan_at_work | which version ? | 14:28 |
| lcuk | no khertan i dont have bugs when playiong with the cam, but at its full resolution the entire machine freezes and gets locked up - thats the same using camera or liqbase or mnotes | 14:28 |
| aquatix | pupnik_: you mean a camera with a small memory which bluetooths its pictures to a main device? | 14:28 |
| Khertan_at_work | ah ! you mean the cam :) | 14:28 |
| aquatix | (reminds me of the cam you could buy with the old Nokia communicator) | 14:29 |
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| Khertan_at_work | yep i see that also that at fullres ... it clearly freeze the device | 14:29 |
| lcuk | pupnik_, i asked this question to craves1 about his extended sdcard a+ bigger battery cover | 14:29 |
| pupnik_ | yeah aquatix | 14:29 |
| Khertan_at_work | this is why i use 320 wide sized resolution | 14:29 |
| lcuk | Khertan_at_work, drop resolution to 320*200 (maybe have it as option) and see for yourself how much more stable and smooth the machine is | 14:29 |
| aquatix | pupnik_: there are already cams with wifi to do so even | 14:29 |
| lcuk | ahhh you already do.. | 14:30 |
| aquatix | pupnik_: and ones doing bt | 14:30 |
| Khertan_at_work | yep | 14:30 |
| Khertan_at_work | :) | 14:30 |
| lcuk | then why it still freezes i dunno... | 14:30 |
| pupnik_ | where which | 14:30 |
| Khertan_at_work | i got no freeze at 320*200 only at 640*480 | 14:30 |
| lcuk | pupnik_, the idea i had was to use the usb/serial port actually in the battery compartment to get data in | 14:30 |
| Khertan_at_work | and the preview is smooth | 14:30 |
| lcuk | 320*240 | 14:30 |
| Khertan_at_work | surely :) | 14:31 |
| pupnik_ | which question did you ask lcuk ? | 14:31 |
| lcuk | "can you put a camera in there as well" | 14:31 |
| Khertan_at_work | but you made the mistake before ... i copy a part of your previous comment | 14:31 |
| Khertan_at_work | "<lcuk> Khertan_at_work, drop resolution to 320*200" | 14:31 |
| lcuk | heh lol :$ | 14:31 |
| Khertan_at_work | héhé | 14:32 |
| lcuk | Khertan_at_work, how many fps do you run camera in? | 14:32 |
| lcuk | i ofund 15 to be reasonable - the lower the FPS the better the low light handling and less snowy it is | 14:33 |
| lcuk | 8 fps lets me have kinda smooth images at night in low light | 14:33 |
| lcuk | 25fps is just snow | 14:34 |
| Khertan_at_work | lcuk> at this time at 25fps | 14:34 |
| Khertan_at_work | but i ll lower it to 15 | 14:34 |
| Khertan_at_work | when i ll found how to set it to 15 :) | 14:34 |
| lcuk | seems reasonable, less overall strain and slightly higher picture quality :) | 14:34 |
| lcuk | heh, its part of your gstreamer init code | 14:34 |
| Khertan_at_work | yep ... but when i code i don't have the gstreamer doc with me | 14:35 |
| lcuk | yeah, its one of the params around where you set normal resolution | 14:36 |
| lcuk | i bet you wouldnt be able to get gstreamer to filter the color layers would you - in liqbase I lower the Chroma channels by half to reduce horrible blinding glaring multicolored snow | 14:37 |
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| lcuk | the gray channel is normally pretty clean | 14:38 |
| Khertan_at_work | hum ... it s a good idea ... | 14:38 |
| Stslaptop | wb johnx | 14:39 |
| johnx|z | thanks | 14:39 |
| * johnx|z kills time at work | 14:39 | |
| lcuk | anyway, must dash again | 14:40 |
| lcuk | johnx, you start skiving as i finish :P | 14:41 |
| johnx|z | heh | 14:41 |
| johnx|z | I'm off the clock :P | 14:41 |
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| lcuk | im on dinner :P | 14:41 |
| johnx|z | I'll be on donuts soon unless someone gives me somethin to do | 14:42 |
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| Jaffa | Bagsy oneza | 14:42 |
| Jaffa | I've only got an egg custard | 14:43 |
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| johnx|z | I've got a mister donuts next store :D it's a bad habit but I guess it's cheaper than smoking ... | 14:43 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Ungh donuts | 14:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's a Krispy Kreme just up the street. | 14:44 |
| Jaffa | Eugh | 14:44 |
| AndrewFBlack | Don't talk about Donuts making me hungry | 14:44 |
| johnx|z | GeneralAntilles: these are a little different than crispy creme...i dunno. crispy cream is a little too heavy for me :/ | 14:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 14:45 |
| Jaffa | We had one open next to the office and now they're the traditional birthday cakes ppl buy. Most of them far too sugary | 14:45 |
| * johnx|z must be a heretic | 14:45 | |
| GeneralAntilles | They are heavy | 14:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | But damn good. | 14:45 |
| johnx|z | heh...there are a couple here too. Last time I saw one there was a line all the way around the corner of thebuilding O_o | 14:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | I wish I had some bread for french toast. | 14:47 |
| Stslaptop | mm, cheese | 14:47 |
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| johnx|z | ha! i gave up on finding cheese ... | 14:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | No cheese in Japan? | 14:48 |
| johnx|z | no good cheese. also: insane prices | 14:48 |
| Jaffa | Any proper cheese in America?! | 14:49 |
| Stslaptop | johnx|z: not even at McD and burger king? :( | 14:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | The grocery store has a whole section of fine cheese. | 14:49 |
| johnx|z | Jaffa: US cheese makes cheese in Japan look pretty sad | 14:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | I usually just buy extra sharp cheddar, though. | 14:49 |
| Khertan_at_work | what call you french toast ? | 14:49 |
| johnx|z | GeneralAntilles: meh. I have to go up to costco and buy a brick unless i want to spend $10 at an import store for like 2oz | 14:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 14:50 |
| Stslaptop | Khertan_at_work: white board, cheese, ham, maybe | 14:50 |
| Khertan_at_work | i ask because at a dinner at the summit at berlin i discover that you call fries : french fries :) | 14:50 |
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| GeneralAntilles | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/French_toast | 14:50 |
| Stslaptop | Khertan_at_work: better than "freedom fries" | 14:50 |
| Jaffa | Khertan_at_work: It's called "egg bread" (roughly) in the UK - I think | 14:50 |
| Khertan_at_work | fries isn't .fr but .be | 14:50 |
| johnx|z | Stslaptop: O_o that's french toast in DK? | 14:51 |
| Jaffa | Although Stskeeps os describing a croque monsieur | 14:51 |
| Stslaptop | johnx: mm. at least, that's how we call toast in .dk :P | 14:51 |
| Stslaptop | and then friedn icely | 14:51 |
| Jaffa | mmm, croque | 14:51 |
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| Jaffa | That's definitely a croque monsieur | 14:51 |
| AndrewFBlack | yeah well look at what we call chinese food in the US its no where near chinese | 14:51 |
| Khertan_at_work | yep so a croque monsieur | 14:51 |
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| johnx|z | Stslaptop: just egg batter and french bread in the US. maybe some cinamon | 14:52 |
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| GeneralAntilles | and syrup! | 14:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | I like a bit of ground sugar, too. | 14:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maybe some fresh fruit. | 14:52 |
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| johnx|z | GeneralAntilles: bah. i'd kill a man to get to an IHOP... | 14:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 14:53 |
| Jaffa | The next summit should be in Perpignan. Somewhere close to Toulouse, perhaps | 14:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm sad Village Inn is closing | 14:53 |
| Stslaptop | http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26381 <- oh boy | 14:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | They have great pies. | 14:53 |
| johnx|z | Stslaptop: title? | 14:54 |
| Stslaptop | johnx: ubuntu netbook edition | 14:54 |
| Stslaptop | on eee, "easy peasy linux" | 14:54 |
| Stslaptop | for 800x480 | 14:54 |
| Khertan_at_work | Jaffa : oh no please not at Perpignan | 14:55 |
| * Jaffa uses bits from Ubuntu Netbook Remix on Jaffa Jr's ThinkPad (nice wazd-like task switcher, auto maximising) | 14:55 | |
| Jaffa | Khertan_at_work: I'm not a big fan of Paris, though doing the !touristy thing could help | 14:55 |
| Khertan_at_work | not a big fan of paris ... but i hate perpignan | 14:56 |
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| Khertan_at_work | and it ll be difficult to have a direct travel | 14:56 |
| Jaffa | BTW, that desktop is rheavy Clutter and really crawls on an unaccelerated ThinkPad | 14:56 |
| Khertan_at_work | so it could be expensive | 14:56 |
| Stslaptop | Jaffa: ick :P | 14:56 |
| Jaffa | Khertan_at_work: true. France'd be good tho' | 14:57 |
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| lcuk | jaffa, it crawls on my x41 as well, even at 1.6ghz | 14:58 |
| Jaffa | Khertan_at_work: nice & warm in the south | 14:58 |
| lcuk | and thats technically got accel | 14:58 |
| Khertan_at_work | i prefer seeing a summit at Grenoble, or Lyon, Strasbourg | 14:58 |
| Stslaptop | the netherlands wouldn't be bad either | 14:58 |
| Khertan_at_work | jaffa> nice ... not really ... warn ... or raining ... i prefer the north of france ... | 14:59 |
| Khertan_at_work | as i prefer cold :) | 14:59 |
| lcuk | finland | 14:59 |
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| Khertan_at_work | Reims could be great too | 14:59 |
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| * Jaffa ponders the clutter no-animation mode; could allow API-using apps from Fremantle in Mer (and that launcher on a "low" ThinkPad) | 14:59 | |
| GeneralAntilles | But I want to see all of your get your laptops confiscated by the TSA. :( | 14:59 |
| Khertan_at_work | finland could be a good choice too | 15:00 |
| Khertan_at_work | the TSA ? | 15:00 |
| Stslaptop | GeneralAntilles: did they introduce habeas corpus back again yet btw? | 15:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.tsa.gov/ | 15:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stslaptop, pff. | 15:00 |
| Jaffa | Khertan_at_work: I grew up in Manchester - anywhere which is warm or has cool storms feels like holiday :) | 15:00 |
| lcuk | jaffa, even the base examples (the spinning OH hands) did not work smoothly - that was 6 textures being scaled and rotated | 15:01 |
| * Jaffa loved being able to watch the inauguration. Paternity leave's great | 15:01 | |
| Jaffa | lcuk: you reckon the code's just crap? | 15:01 |
| lcuk | ithe problem is, i dont see how - it goes to lower level ogl | 15:01 |
| Jaffa | Hmm | 15:01 |
| Khertan_at_work | Jaffa> u grew up in the south of the France, anywhere warm remember me that i hate when temp is more than 20°C | 15:01 |
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| AndrewFBlack | brb changing over to my linux partition | 15:02 |
| Jaffa | Khertan_at_work: heh :) | 15:02 |
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| * GeneralAntilles would prefer warm. | 15:02 | |
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| lcuk | jaffa, it was shockingly poor performance wise and certianly not what i expected to see | 15:02 |
| lcuk | especially considering its retained model rendering | 15:03 |
| lcuk | or so i recall | 15:03 |
| lcuk | (might be wrong) | 15:03 |
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| lcuk | im sure that it scales quite well - ie it wont get much worse as you add more stuff) but i expected a ground level core simple usage to be flawless at least on desktop/laptop and not embedded system | 15:04 |
| Jaffa | tigert's been quiet recently. Should get his thoughts on wazd's mer mockups | 15:05 |
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| lcuk | whats tigert working on? | 15:06 |
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| Stslaptop | lcuk: made for example the plankton theme | 15:06 |
| lcuk | i see now, google helps | 15:06 |
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| andrewfblack | ok stupid question is something wrong with my Linux install or something becuase some times I wont be touching the mouse or keyboard and computer will change the active desktop | 15:11 |
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| Jaffa | Obviously still at Nokia, according to that IP | 15:11 |
| Stslaptop | Jaffa, he spoke the other day, so not that quiet :) | 15:11 |
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| * lcuk doesnt see him in chan | 15:12 | |
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| thopiekar | hello | 15:15 |
| thopiekar | hi Jaffa | 15:15 |
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| Jaffa | lcuk: his leaving prompted my statement | 15:16 |
| Jaffa | hi thopiekar | 15:16 |
| * Jaffa goes fireplace shopping and a (hopefully brief) visit to Ikea | 15:17 | |
| lcuk | i just saw | 15:18 |
| lcuk | lol jaffa, the missus never sees ikea visit as brief | 15:18 |
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| andrewfblack | Hey trying to install maemo sdk but I"m getting this error Scratchbox login executable... no | 15:31 |
| andrewfblack | E: Scratchbox login found but not executable by user. | 15:31 |
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| herzi | does maemo provide expander images I can use in my treeview? diablo doesn't show the triangles that gtk displays within gnome; now I need a replacement for this | 15:54 |
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| Khertan_at_work | nice split | 15:59 |
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| vai | cool, QT Designer crashed on me | 16:23 |
| woglinde | which version? | 16:23 |
| vai | 20080806 snapshot | 16:23 |
| woglinde | hm | 16:26 |
| woglinde | is this before after the rewrite | 16:26 |
| woglinde | can remeber excatly | 16:26 |
| woglinde | cannt | 16:26 |
| vai | I was connecting a signal :) | 16:28 |
| vai | (Linux) | 16:28 |
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| Stslaptop | oh, nice, another pre-alpha SDK coming up | 16:29 |
| timeless | oh, swift should be reachable | 16:30 |
| timeless | if i could get onto the intranet | 16:30 |
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| vai | when you get an update once a week, it's about normal ;-) | 16:31 |
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| * timeless sings a good manager who can find (to the tune of Eshet Chayil) | 16:38 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Stslaptop, I don't get back credit for my previous participation, eh? ;) :P | 16:43 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Sorry, no MER karma implemented yet ;) | 16:45 |
| johnx | woo! new SDK! | 16:45 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, no credit. you gotta pay full price just like all the rest :P | 16:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Medical Education Resources? :P | 16:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mars Exploration Rover? | 16:46 |
| Stslaptop | .. | 16:46 |
| Stslaptop | new SDK now? | 16:46 |
| X-Fade | Hmm the latter one can also be a great mascot :) | 16:47 |
| johnx | Stslaptop, huh? nah, was just reacting to you :P | 16:47 |
| Stslaptop | johnx: ah, good, i was going into a heart attack | 16:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mer on MER | 16:47 |
| johnx | X-Fade, one of the Mars rovers at the bottom of the ocean would make a nice background... | 16:47 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, mer on MER for MER? | 16:47 |
| Stslaptop | GeneralAntilles: the mars rovers sure are sturdy. | 16:47 |
| X-Fade | johnx: ===> wazd :) | 16:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, we've figured out your dirty little secret. | 16:48 |
| johnx | Stslaptop, what kind of screen res do they have? (sorry about the heart attack! O_o) | 16:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade == wazd | 16:48 |
| Stslaptop | johnx: not sure | 16:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, I'm more worried about the 68k. :P | 16:48 |
| X-Fade | I wish I was that good in design.... | 16:48 |
| * Myrtti considers fiddling around with the wiki | 16:49 | |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, debian runs on it... | 16:49 |
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| X-Fade | Idea: Would it make sense to have a community run application store? | 16:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RAD6000 | 16:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Guess it's not 68k | 16:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's the Space Shuttle | 16:50 |
| Stslaptop | X-Fade: i have thought about it occasionally | 16:50 |
| Stslaptop | but payment gateways might be difficult :) | 16:50 |
| Myrtti | is there a Meta namespace in the wiki for discussion about the usage of it and possible problems? | 16:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Handling money is going to be unfun. | 16:50 |
| X-Fade | Technical and organisational difficulties aside, would it make sense. | 16:50 |
| johnx | ugh, payment stuff would be a nightmare | 16:50 |
| Myrtti | like in Wikipedia there's Wikipedia:Common problems etc. | 16:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | https://wiki.maemo.org/Meta:Anonymous_editing | 16:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Was the only one. | 16:51 |
| Stslaptop | johnx: i was thinking paypal | 16:51 |
| X-Fade | Do you think people are prepared to pay for applications on the tablets? | 16:51 |
| Myrtti | I was just thinking that if I make a template warning about the possible formatting problems of the pages imported from html, I don't want that to get too cluttered | 16:51 |
| X-Fade | As Linux means free (no cost) to most people ;) | 16:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, I think it depends a lot on the applications. | 16:52 |
| Myrtti | so if I add a link to [[Meta:Problems of the wiki pages imported from html generated by foobar]] or whatever... | 16:52 |
| johnx | X-Fade, maybe a thin class of app. I could see paying for games | 16:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | There are a lot of tablet, users, too. | 16:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Most of them aren't Linux savvy individuals. | 16:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | and are used to paying for stuff. | 16:52 |
| X-Fade | It can draw in developers who make decent apps, if they can create some kind of revenue? | 16:52 |
| johnx | and there will be some commercial games for the pandora (honestly!) | 16:52 |
| glass | hehe | 16:53 |
| glass | what you count as commercial? | 16:53 |
| woglinde | hehe | 16:53 |
| glass | shareware is technically commercial | 16:53 |
| johnx | glass, closed source, costs money | 16:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, I think it has potential | 16:53 |
| Stslaptop | X-Fade: there was no promise of everything being free as in beer when people got the tablets :P | 16:53 |
| Myrtti | am I making any sense? | 16:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | But, honestly, I think it's something that Nokia's better equipped to implement. | 16:53 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles++ | 16:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Myrtti, it sounds fine to me. | 16:53 |
| X-Fade | Stslaptop: No, but general public assumes it? | 16:53 |
| Stslaptop | X-Fade: which is why it is difficult to make money on OSS and such :P | 16:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Myrtti, I'm unfamiliar with some of the higher-level issues of wiki management, so you're almost certainly the most qualified person to decide in the room. ;) | 16:54 |
| Myrtti | of course, I'd still have to ask more people about their opinion, but that's how I'd do it with wikipedia | 16:54 |
| johnx | X-Fade, they do...but PDAs are a different environment than desktop linux. Lots of people coming from other systems assume lots of things that don't line up with reality :) | 16:54 |
| X-Fade | I think it is a topic we need to discuss. What if the next tablet sells 10M units or.. | 16:54 |
| X-Fade | At some point your potential market is there.. | 16:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, I could see us pushing something with Nokia. | 16:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | and maybe if it didn't get any traction, THEN setting out on our own. | 16:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | But I don't think we have the resources to handle it ourselves. | 16:55 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Or we can preempt it, by creating something ourselves. | 16:55 |
| X-Fade | Or at least designing ourselves.. | 16:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia's the one that's gonna be able to attract commercial interests. | 16:55 |
| X-Fade | Let's say we can get organized,the payment setup and have resources. | 16:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Handling money is something that puts me on edge. | 16:56 |
| X-Fade | I want to find out the benefits first, not looking at the problems at the moment ;) | 16:56 |
| johnx | I'd have to get paid to risk handling money... | 16:57 |
| X-Fade | Benefits for our community, our platform. | 16:57 |
| johnx | benefit: gaps get filled, more serious games show up, | 16:57 |
| johnx | I'd also love to see a bounty system as long as we're going to the trouble of handling money | 16:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | More developers | 16:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | More applications | 16:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Perhaps better applications | 16:58 |
| johnx | I think that if people saw real bounties they actually had some hope of collecting on (not loose forum promises) they might be motivated | 16:58 |
| johnx | and Nokia could sponsor bounties without putting their legal ass on the line | 16:59 |
| johnx | as could community members | 16:59 |
| X-Fade | Let's say there is a maemo.org legal entity, who can deal with the money and distribute it correctly. | 16:59 |
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| X-Fade | How would we deliver the goods to the user? | 17:00 |
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| johnx | very good question. .deb with a serial key needed? | 17:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Does such a thing exist? | 17:01 |
| X-Fade | johnx: We have no security framework in the platform. | 17:01 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, not on install :P on run | 17:01 |
| GAN800 | Ah | 17:01 |
| X-Fade | So one can copy the binary as much as one wants.. | 17:01 |
| X-Fade | And all other options lead to DRM ;) | 17:01 |
| johnx | and I only ever saw one piece of DRM I didn't hate: Steam | 17:02 |
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| X-Fade | It would take a lot to get that accepted by the community, I guess. | 17:03 |
| johnx | Steam? probably lots of steam users already | 17:03 |
| johnx | they already have to be online (more or less) to install apps | 17:03 |
| X-Fade | But on the other hand, we see wayfinder struggeling with security too. They lock to mac address etc.. | 17:03 |
| X-Fade | Not really a great solution.. | 17:04 |
| johnx | I guess the question is "If people are developing for money, on average how much confidence do they need that people aren't just pirating their apps?" | 17:04 |
| johnx | There's a balance to be struck between "no piracy" and "convenience" | 17:04 |
| X-Fade | johnx: Very true. | 17:04 |
| johnx | The guys at Valve are so far the only ones who seem to "have it right" IMNSHO | 17:05 |
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| X-Fade | Part of that can be solved by reasonal pricing.. $1 for a simple app for example. | 17:05 |
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| X-Fade | It is probably easier for most people to buy it at that point than to pirate it.. | 17:06 |
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| johnx | yeah. The other thing is that if the pirated version is more flexible than the pay version it doesn't help things | 17:06 |
| johnx | (ex: ebooks, drm'ed music, software tied to one machine) | 17:07 |
| wazd_n800 | lo comrads) | 17:07 |
| X-Fade | Yes, but all 'locking down' will impose such problems.. | 17:07 |
| johnx | honestly, I'm not getting money from Valve, but if we're really planning to do this from the ground up we'd be hard pressed to find a better role-model than steam... | 17:09 |
| johnx | wazd_n800, hey :) | 17:09 |
| * Myrtti yawns | 17:09 | |
| X-Fade | johnx: Well even steam has online activation etc, right? | 17:09 |
| johnx | yeah, once, when you purchase the app | 17:10 |
| johnx | you need to purchase online anyways, sooo | 17:10 |
| X-Fade | johnx: So it locks to a certain device too? | 17:10 |
| johnx | X-Fade, no | 17:10 |
| wazd_n800 | Steam is very nice thing if everything is done legaly) | 17:10 |
| johnx | locks to a certain account | 17:10 |
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| X-Fade | Ah, well that can be a solution too. | 17:11 |
| X-Fade | But things like that need frameworks inside the device ;) | 17:11 |
| johnx | X-Fade, so let's say I drop by your place for a LAN party, sit down at your spare desktop and pull down data files for HL2 and CS :) | 17:11 |
| johnx | of course whenever you're downloading to a new machine it needs to authenticate | 17:12 |
| johnx | it also wants to authenticate once every couple weeks (but this is a value that can be tweaked if we're reimplementing) | 17:12 |
| X-Fade | Well, implementing nothing right now ;) | 17:13 |
| X-Fade | But want to consider the whole picture.. | 17:13 |
| johnx | right :) | 17:13 |
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| johnx | but I mean "If we decide to use DRM, someone will have to implement it somehow, so we might as well do it right." :) | 17:13 |
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| X-Fade | It would be a pretty enormous endeavor :) | 17:14 |
| johnx | well, yes | 17:14 |
| wazd_n800 | I've realized that Apple's App Store is a ripped off X-Box Live) | 17:15 |
| johnx | which was my other point about "would making it really secure vastly improve the number of people willing to use it?" | 17:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 17:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd be interested to talk to the people who might be willing to sell. | 17:15 |
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| johnx | agreed | 17:15 |
| johnx | possibly questionaires, polls, the whole 9 yards | 17:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h might have some input. | 17:16 |
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| johnx | and for that 'contacting developers' bit we definitely want that coming from someone@maemo.org | 17:16 |
| wazd_n800 | Are you discussing Mer Store?) | 17:16 |
| X-Fade | But would the benefits outweigh the probems we would face in implementing this.. | 17:17 |
| X-Fade | Even if we do it together with Nokia or another partner.. | 17:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | At this point, I doubt it. | 17:17 |
| X-Fade | Is an App store vital for a platform? | 17:18 |
| johnx | errr...maybe? at most I bet you'll see a couple games, a couple emulators and maybe if the planets align a nice PIM or Office suite | 17:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | We don't have the volume or hype to generate the interest Apple does. | 17:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | and I don't think the existing interest in the community is large enough. | 17:18 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: That why I said, lets say the next tablet sells 25M units ;) | 17:18 |
| johnx | X-Fade, for some platforms, I'd say yes. Different devs, develop for different platforms for different reasons | 17:18 |
| X-Fade | We need to think ahead. | 17:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, hey, you made it bigger. :P | 17:18 |
| * GeneralAntilles is almost out of Juicy Fruit. :( | 17:18 | |
| X-Fade | Well any fictional big number will do for now :) | 17:19 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Well, push it to -community. | 17:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | See what Peter, Quim and Jussi have to say about it. | 17:19 |
| johnx | hmm, we should talk to hancom. :) | 17:19 |
| X-Fade | If you look at the Nokia phone sales, they laugh at iphone numbers for example. | 17:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Is there a Symbian store? | 17:20 |
| X-Fade | It can happen with these tablets too. | 17:20 |
| X-Fade | You never know ;) | 17:20 |
| johnx | I'm thinking we'll magically see more commercial devs with Qt | 17:20 |
| johnx | I just have that feeling | 17:20 |
| wazd_n800 | x-fade: not fair to compair 1 device and zillion) | 17:20 |
| johnx | but the *bounty* idea, I really like | 17:20 |
| lcuk | is this subsidised development for functionality or user apps? | 17:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | The Qt ecosystem between S60 and Harmattan should be veeery interesting. | 17:20 |
| X-Fade | wazd_n800: No, but I mean.. we need to think big ;) | 17:21 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, no the bounty system is the one where we put money out on your head. :P | 17:21 |
| wazd_n800 | the funniest thing bout app store is that there is 0.1% of really useful apps | 17:21 |
| X-Fade | And we need to prepare for growth and set out own goals.. | 17:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 17:21 |
| johnx | lcuk, if I had my ways it would be bounties for pretty much anything as long as it passes basic sanity checks | 17:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | We're gonna get a bunch of lighters and beer pong games. | 17:21 |
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| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Well, if a developer can earn a living that way.. | 17:22 |
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| johnx | GeneralAntilles, lots of commercial devs are happier with Qt than GTK. even without serious numbers there was a surprising commercial interest in the zaurus | 17:22 |
| X-Fade | That would mean that we would get really cool applications too. | 17:22 |
| lcuk | given a good enough framework to allow semi developers to create user widgets that can be sold cheaply would be perfect | 17:22 |
| wazd_n800 | and 500 sudoku's) | 17:22 |
| ian_brasil | did you see the iphone rifle scope which buzzes for a head shot..that is cool | 17:22 |
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| lcuk | what would be nice would be to allow those same users to take those same widgets (or recompiles thereof) and use them on desktop as well | 17:24 |
| X-Fade | Even if those apps are silly. I see them installed on a lot of devices around me. So there is a market for them. | 17:24 |
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| lcuk | silly apps == a good sane infrastructure and framework | 17:24 |
| X-Fade | Question is: Do we want to facilitate that market? | 17:24 |
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| wazd_n800 | Why do you want to involve money into open-source world?) | 17:25 |
| lcuk | oh yesssssssss i want quick simple weekend projects produced at a frightening rate | 17:25 |
| X-Fade | wazd_n800: Do you eat? | 17:25 |
| lcuk | wazd, if the customer sees value they will pay | 17:25 |
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| X-Fade | wazd_n800: People need money, even if the develop oss software.. | 17:25 |
| johnx | wazd_n800, open source is all about subverting money into getting better software for everyone :) | 17:25 |
| X-Fade | *they.. | 17:25 |
| lcuk | open source isnt part of the equation cos they dont understand the language anyway | 17:25 |
| lcuk | it doesnt actually matter to most users and those which are interested can use the source to make their own media player/soduku | 17:26 |
| X-Fade | And who says that you can't sell your opensource application? :) | 17:26 |
| wazd_n800 | x-fade: I have a work (regulary) | 17:26 |
| johnx | open source is about re-arranging priorities until 'enlightened self interest' lines up with 'freely available software' | 17:26 |
| X-Fade | Sell it and get free sourcecode with it.. | 17:26 |
| johnx | ...or .... bounties! | 17:27 |
| wazd_n800 | money = piracy | 17:27 |
| * johnx should probably shaddup about that :) | 17:27 | |
| X-Fade | If people can earn money with something, they might be able to invest more time in developing. | 17:27 |
| wazd_n800 | it's senseless | 17:27 |
| lcuk | bounties should come from elsewhere, not the consumer, to build the framework to allow the weekend apps to be built | 17:27 |
| johnx | wazd_n800, gotta say: it depends. | 17:27 |
| johnx | lcuk, no. money should come from anyone who wants to pay | 17:27 |
| johnx | we've seen bounties offered on the forums already, but no one could get organized | 17:28 |
| X-Fade | wazd_n800: Would your really go through the trouble to pirate a $1 app? | 17:28 |
| wazd_n800 | ok, now we got to my thesis that «money is the best inspiration» | 17:28 |
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| lcuk | johnx, agreed but user of the apple store would never have clicked on "improve the api of the textbox library" (unless it was for copy paste ;)) | 17:28 |
| johnx | wazd_n800, luckily, we don't need to choose one inspiration. | 17:28 |
| wazd_n800 | that's what I'm telling to all linux fans) | 17:28 |
| wazd_n800 | but with money in list you don't need others) | 17:29 |
| johnx | wazd_n800, we want all kinds of developers. there is room for open source to coexist with paid apps | 17:30 |
| X-Fade | wazd_n800: Well we have the option to do nothing. But will that grow our platform in the long run? Attract a lot of people? | 17:30 |
| lcuk | wazd, as an artist you have your drawings and layouts, if a customer said ill pay you £5 for a layout. would you accept the money or not? | 17:30 |
| johnx | lcuk, exactly my point! what if there was a bounty up for "let ipod/iphone apps share data with each other on a non-jailbroken phone" on some respected iphone forum? | 17:30 |
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| wazd_n800 | johnx: why would I give some app for free if I can sell it for a buck? | 17:31 |
| lcuk | johnx yeah but iphone core dev is *HARD* its not like having everything in front, its as hard as linux you need to KNOW the core stuff, not just the simple cartoon api | 17:31 |
| johnx | lcuk, that's not my point... | 17:32 |
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| johnx | wazd_n800, I don't know. why are you doing art for mer instead of charging us? why are you doing icons for RST38h's closed source emus? | 17:32 |
| X-Fade | wazd_n800: You don't have to charge money ;) You can also get satisfaction from being the most popular app or getting great response? | 17:33 |
| wazd_n800 | I have princips. If a work is "no big deal" - I | 17:33 |
| lcuk | johnx, i agree its not the point, but you have to make sure you dont break the ecosystem, its gonna be hard for someone who isnt the core framework visionary to actually modify it in the way you suggest | 17:33 |
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| lcuk | it would take serious amounts of cash | 17:33 |
| wazd_n800 | ont accept it | 17:33 |
| glass | people need money to buy stuff like pandoras and usch | 17:33 |
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| lcuk | and time and planning | 17:33 |
| wazd_n800 | fuck | 17:33 |
| wazd_n800 | I have princips. If a work is "no big deal" - I wont accept iit | 17:33 |
| johnx | wazd_n800, do you think some other people feel the same way? | 17:33 |
| lcuk | bbl again anyway | 17:34 |
| johnx | lcuk, we can have people review bounties before they're thrown into the wild... | 17:34 |
| wazd_n800 | and if a work was really tough - I wont give it for free | 17:34 |
| glass | if a work is something that "anyone" could do, it's more likely someone will do it for free | 17:34 |
| * StsN800 ponders what he stumbled into | 17:35 | |
| glass | if work is both fun and profitable.. thats most motivating for anyone | 17:35 |
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| johnx | I think the big thing that affects whether people try to charge for apps is the 'tone' set by the community. DOS, and later, Windows has traditionally been the haven of Shareware. When people start using it they see Shareware all around, and when they start developing the first thing on their mind is "This is the way things work. Why should I give away my code for free when no one else is?" | 17:37 |
| wazd_n800 | I'm making icons for FMS emus cause I like them) I do stuff for Mer cause I like the idea. But. I'f I'll make some app the would be popular - I'd better sell it for a buck than giveaway it for free | 17:38 |
| johnx | wazd_n800, would you write that app if you thought you could get paid for it? Would an app store motivate you to produce more code/art/whatever for the Nokia tablets? | 17:39 |
| X-Fade | wazd_n800: Well, in theory one can already do that now? | 17:39 |
| * johnx 's apartment is cold O_o | 17:39 | |
| wazd_n800 | cause 1 buck is nothing for single person. But if Titan, for example would cost 1 buck then I'd have 6k bucks already) | 17:40 |
| tank-man | whats titan? | 17:40 |
| johnx | wazd_n800, if there was an app store, would you have charged for titan? | 17:40 |
| StsN800 | donations should probably also be mentioned | 17:40 |
| wazd_n800 | x-fade: it's too difficult right now | 17:40 |
| StsN800 | 10-20 dollar donations does run up | 17:41 |
| wazd_n800 | johnx: maybe | 17:41 |
| X-Fade | wazd_n800: Well, let's say you make it paypal donationware and you make a custom background for every donation. | 17:41 |
| tank-man | ah a theme | 17:41 |
| wazd_n800 | johnx: but I won't make it any faster for example | 17:41 |
| StsN800 | X-Fade, people getting mentioned at theme page helps too | 17:41 |
| StsN800 | for donating | 17:42 |
| johnx | wazd_n800, I don't think there's anything wrong with having some things cost money, especially if they aren't part of the core system | 17:42 |
| X-Fade | StsN800: Yes, there are all kinds of possible ways to get appreciation.. | 17:42 |
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| X-Fade | But it would be up to the developer to charge or give if for free. It would only be an option.. | 17:43 |
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| wazd_n800 | johnx: right now paying for an app is too difficult. But if we would have some centralized web based system, like ebay for example, then it would work | 17:44 |
| X-Fade | I personally think that attracting big developers to the platform will benefit the community as a whole. | 17:44 |
| johnx | wazd_n800, I couldn't tell earlier if you like the idea of an app store or hate it :P | 17:45 |
| wazd_n800 | money is not an attraction for big devs | 17:45 |
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| wazd_n800 | johnx: apple's store - total crap | 17:45 |
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| johnx | wazd_n800, how would you do it better? | 17:46 |
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| wazd_n800 | johnx: I have to install itunes and slooooowly browse thru it just to check what apps are already done | 17:46 |
| wazd_n800 | johnx: good example of store is an e-bay. but without auction | 17:47 |
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| wazd_n800 | web based, with centralized pay system (paypal for example) | 17:48 |
| johnx | and without people trying to sell their virginity or their liver... | 17:48 |
| wazd_n800 | Minimal moderation for hazardous software | 17:48 |
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| X-Fade | wazd_n800: Well, sure that would be the idea. Have a web app and/or an application on the device. | 17:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | h-a-m, obviously. | 17:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Web is clunky and slow. | 17:49 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, both. H-A-M is clunky and slow in a different way... | 17:49 |
| wazd_n800 | nope, web only | 17:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, but we can make it not be clunky and slow | 17:50 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Let's not get hung up on slow etc ;) | 17:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Web we're sort of stuck with. | 17:50 |
| wazd_n800 | i wan't to access it from any os and device | 17:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anyway, both is fine. | 17:50 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, that's an interesting claim. I can build a moon rocket | 17:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's how it is now. | 17:50 |
| * GeneralAntilles sighs. | 17:50 | |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, honestly, sometimes I'm not sure if H-A-M is saveable... | 17:50 |
| wazd_n800 | any OS orientation will suck | 17:50 |
| X-Fade | Even if we could get payment etc implemented in HAM, there would still need to be done a lot more.. | 17:50 |
| johnx | wazd_n800, how would you handle DRM if it was your choice? | 17:51 |
| wazd_n800 | app store should be web based for 10000% | 17:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, we have a willing fulltime developer and lots of talented people. | 17:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Honestly, I don't see the big issue. | 17:52 |
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| GeneralAntilles | It works just fine for me as-is. | 17:52 |
| wazd_n800 | johnx: I'd make a virus sceme | 17:52 |
| johnx | wazd_n800, huh? | 17:52 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, if you say so. I'll believe it when I see it. | 17:52 |
| wazd_n800 | you can copy app wherever you want and it would work there for 2 days for example | 17:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | I can't say anything these days without running into that. <_< | 17:53 |
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| johnx | wazd_n800, the technical details of that are somewhat tricky for things like themes :) | 17:53 |
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| wazd_n800 | after 2 days user would be ready to bu it or leave it | 17:54 |
| wazd_n800 | I'm not a specialist in technical details as you know) | 17:54 |
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| wazd_n800 | but I find this system pretty fair | 17:55 |
| johnx | wazd_n800, well, given that we don't have an infinite (or even microsoft amount) of programmers the technicalities may define the solution possible | 17:55 |
| r2d2rogers | Looking at garage, which version of the cx3110x driver should I mess with for mer and the 770? | 17:55 |
| wazd_n800 | and demoversions ofcourse | 17:55 |
| slonopotamus | i think i have a proposal for right click support | 17:55 |
| slonopotamus | why not use some key as a modifier? for ex, 'menu' + click = right click | 17:56 |
| johnx | r2d2rogers, hmm, let me see if I can figure it out | 17:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | A solution that's been proposed often. | 17:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Why's wrong with tap'n'hold? | 17:57 |
| slonopotamus | hehe | 17:57 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, some people have done that in the past. if it works for you then go for it :) | 17:57 |
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| r2d2rogers | johnx: https://garage.maemo.org/frs/?group_id=12&release_id=1012 | 17:57 |
| slonopotamus | every apps has to be hacked in order to support tap-and-hold | 17:57 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, have any links? | 17:57 |
| johnx | well, I know they do that for macs running linux | 17:58 |
| X-Fade | Anyway, I'll see if I can write a nice controversial mail to -community soon, to get the discussion started. | 17:58 |
| qwerty12 | r2d2rogers, dunno if this applies to you, but at least for N800, newer cx3110x driver is here: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/c/cx3110x-module-src/ | 17:58 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, well macos does this ;) | 17:58 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, also, there is another solution that can be done at the toolkit and I am confused why that's not used :/ | 17:58 |
| X-Fade | We should be able to get more response than some of the -users discussions :D | 17:58 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, what solution? | 17:59 |
| r2d2rogers | qwerty12: thanks for the link | 17:59 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, so does ubuntu on a macbook if you set it up. I don't remember the source. been years since I had a mac | 17:59 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, aaah, the other one...it's called gtk-stylus | 17:59 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, i read there are trroubles with it | 18:00 |
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| johnx | the only downside is it doesn't draw a spinny circle why you hold the stylus. other than that it works well | 18:00 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, what if i really want a long left click? | 18:00 |
| johnx | used it for a long time on zaurus/gpe | 18:00 |
| johnx | I never found an app that needed that | 18:00 |
| X-Fade | slonopotamus: You can also use presure data. "Press hard for right mouse click" :) | 18:00 |
| lcuk | i hate tap and hold wit ha passion, i cannot ever use it properly | 18:00 |
| slonopotamus | painting apps? | 18:00 |
| johnx | X-Fade, cause that works sooo reliably already :P | 18:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, that's because Nokia broke it in Chinook. | 18:01 |
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| X-Fade | johnx: Yeah :) | 18:01 |
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| lcuk | double tap would be better if the system would respond in time | 18:01 |
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| johnx | lcuk, I think the solution is that apps shouldn't require right clicks :) | 18:01 |
| slonopotamus | tap-n-hold is unusable when walking | 18:01 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, even in 2007 - i hate keeping still | 18:01 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, use your thumb :) | 18:01 |
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| GeneralAntilles | johnx, that's OS X's solution. | 18:01 |
| X-Fade | multitouch :) | 18:01 |
| lcuk | johnx, im hoping to use thumbs in corners for other things ;) | 18:02 |
| slonopotamus | thumb is unusable in microb L) | 18:02 |
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| lcuk | but thats not the same :P | 18:02 |
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| luke-jr | map one finger to right-click | 18:02 |
| lcuk | :) X-Fade | 18:02 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, well there's command click and long-click. they do the same, right? | 18:02 |
| X-Fade | finger in left bottom corner and other finger touches where you want.. | 18:02 |
| slonopotamus | :D | 18:02 |
| luke-jr | do you get enough data to tell what finger it is? | 18:02 |
| lcuk | X-Fade, i havent released it yet :P | 18:02 |
| slonopotamus | n8x0 doesn't have multitouch | 18:02 |
| X-Fade | luke-jr: Nokia has pattents to sense fingers on the back of a device. | 18:02 |
| lcuk | slonopotamus, BULLSHIT | 18:02 |
| lcuk | ooops - caps | 18:03 |
| lcuk | lol | 18:03 |
| luke-jr | X-Fade: I don't mean that | 18:03 |
| luke-jr | I mean use a pinky for right-click | 18:03 |
| X-Fade | So you can also use that as a modifier. | 18:03 |
| luke-jr | or the back of the stylus | 18:03 |
| X-Fade | Yeah, that patent describes recognizing different fingers. | 18:03 |
| lcuk | X-Fade, im gonna use the multitouch for SHIFT key :) | 18:03 |
| qwerty12 | r2d2rogers, if you get symbol errors when compiling, apply http://pastebin.com/d7d5370b0 to the source, put umac.ko in the top-level Makefile and edit the Makefile to change /scratchbox/users/faheem/... to your current kernel source | 18:03 |
| lcuk | slonopotamus, http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=dJWvvn_cePM | 18:03 |
| luke-jr | well, I was thinking the tip of your fingerprint | 18:04 |
| lcuk | X-Fade, you know the limitation with my multitouch needing to keep one finger in same place, people are already used to that with shift keys :) | 18:04 |
| johnx | r2d2rogers, when wifi is running on your 770 in maemo what modules are loaded? | 18:04 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: Pretty touch when walking though.. | 18:05 |
| X-Fade | tough ;) | 18:05 |
| lcuk | X-Fade, not really, you are already holding it with your thumb nearby | 18:05 |
| * r2d2rogers takes notes from qwerty12 | 18:05 | |
| r2d2rogers | johnx: checking, I have my other 770 in maemo now... | 18:05 |
| johnx | r2d2rogers, nice :) | 18:05 |
| slonopotamus | uh? | 18:05 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: Yeah, so one hand to hold device and other to work the screen. | 18:06 |
| slonopotamus | lcuk, o_O | 18:06 |
| lcuk | how else can yopu walk and type right now? | 18:06 |
| lcuk | using touchscreen only | 18:06 |
| johnx | X-Fade, hold with your left hand, bring your thumb to the bottom left corner of the screen, tap with your right finger/thumb/earlobe | 18:06 |
| lcuk | and one hand | 18:06 |
| slonopotamus | lcuk, it does? | 18:06 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: Hand on the front ;) | 18:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, they're the same, but practically no application requires right-click. | 18:07 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: A few fingers to hold, a few to touch screen ;) | 18:07 |
| lcuk | slonopotamus, you see the video, download liqbase to your device and test it yourself :) | 18:07 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, photoshop | 18:07 |
| luke-jr | I seem to have misplaced my handheld ;( | 18:07 |
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| johnx | GeneralAntilles, $*&$%ing photoshop drives me up the $*%&ing wall on Mac. | 18:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, practically. :) | 18:07 |
| lcuk | X-Fade, well if thats the case you cant generically do Shift + Letter and will have to fallback to old method | 18:07 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Gimp ;) | 18:07 |
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| lcuk | but it still "works" | 18:07 |
| luke-jr | how much memory does Maemo need? | 18:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, get a real mouse. | 18:07 |
| lcuk | anyway, goin again :P | 18:07 |
| luke-jr | X-Fade: Gimp is fail; port Krita | 18:08 |
| * lcuk wishes he could spend more time doing maemo stuff :'( | 18:08 | |
| X-Fade | lcuk: What if you could sell liqbase based apps? :) | 18:08 |
| slonopotamus | lcuk, gprs :( send please to slonopotamusorama@gmail.com ? | 18:08 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, ahaha. nah, I just went back to using gimp on a normal-people computer :) | 18:08 |
| slonopotamus | lcuk, video link, i mean | 18:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, then no bitching for you. | 18:08 |
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| lcuk | X-Fade, why not, im gonna have a nice simple on device IDE and quick on device compilation and a simple graphics library and a nice collection of widgets | 18:09 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, don't hold up mac os x as a target unless you want me to shoot at it :) I've used it long enough to have a hate list for it (I have one for lots of OSes) | 18:09 |
| r2d2rogers | johnx: cx3110x umac and ext2 are all I see in lsmod (as I just posted this to identi.ca....) | 18:09 |
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| lcuk | i want to make it easy for myself to create compelling applications on this and other devices and if others want to pay for them thats great | 18:10 |
| lcuk | but arghhhh im not here | 18:10 |
| luke-jr | btw, why does it seem people use extX on Nokia devices? | 18:10 |
| luke-jr | why not jffs2? | 18:11 |
| johnx | luke-jr, jffs2 is for raw NAND. ext2/3 is for block devices | 18:11 |
| slonopotamus | oh my :) you're cheating | 18:11 |
| qwerty12 | jffs2 isn't meant to be used on SD cards. the internal flash where the os is stored is jffs2 | 18:11 |
| X-Fade | luke-jr: jffs2 has some serious memory requirements too. | 18:11 |
| luke-jr | hm | 18:11 |
| johnx | r2d2rogers, interesting. then I think qwerty12 gave you the right link. for some reason I thought there was something different about the wireless driver for the 770 | 18:12 |
| * slonopotamus reads about multitouch simulation | 18:12 | |
| luke-jr | anyhow, is Maemo likely to work on a handheld w/ 64 MB RAM? | 18:12 |
| qwerty12 | Is it certain that Nokia are using UBIFS in the RX-51? | 18:12 |
| johnx | r2d2rogers, did you already test wireless under mer by copying modules into place? | 18:12 |
| slonopotamus | i want a way to have right click without hacking each and every app | 18:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12, the kernel changelog is fucking filled to the brim with it. | 18:12 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, what was the problem with gtk-stylus? | 18:12 |
| slonopotamus | luke-jr, n770 has 64mb, if i'm not mistaken | 18:13 |
| qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles, hehe, I've never bothered to look at it. Thanks :) | 18:13 |
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| r2d2rogers | johnx: I started to, but didn't get far due to sapwood | 18:13 |
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| johnx | luke-jr, it's a little tight with the current version of Maemo, but doable | 18:13 |
| luke-jr | hmm | 18:13 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, trying to remember, 1 sec | 18:13 |
| johnx | luke-jr, totally doable with swap though | 18:13 |
| luke-jr | swap on flash⁈ | 18:13 |
| johnx | swap to sd | 18:13 |
| luke-jr | SD is flash | 18:14 |
| johnx | and 4GB is $10 | 18:14 |
| luke-jr | plus, my system only has one SD slot | 18:14 |
| luke-jr | and nothing internal | 18:14 |
| johnx | if it wears out in 3 years from swapping, then get a new one | 18:14 |
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| luke-jr | I guess I need to find it first. | 18:14 |
| luke-jr | but I've looked everywhere :/ | 18:15 |
| johnx | as long as you don't plan to run a browser it's possible I think | 18:15 |
| slonopotamus | http://www.google.com/search?q=gtk+stylus+right+click | 18:15 |
| slonopotamus | first link is m$.com o_O | 18:15 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, which one is telling me the problem? the first link? | 18:16 |
| johnx | luke-jr, what device are you thinking about running maemo on? | 18:16 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, nope, i'm searching... | 18:16 |
| luke-jr | johnx: Zaurus C760 | 18:16 |
| johnx | luke-jr, aaaah, very interesting. :) I have it working nicely on a c1000 right here | 18:16 |
| luke-jr | johnx: oh, so it's already been ported? :O | 18:17 |
| johnx | luke-jr, I'm part of the Mer project, to get maemo working on top of a (thin) ubuntu base. | 18:17 |
| luke-jr | why Ubuntu? | 18:17 |
| johnx | https://wiki.maemo.org/Mer | 18:18 |
| johnx | mainly because it's modern, is optimized for armv5te and has upstart | 18:18 |
| luke-jr | Debian doesn't? | 18:18 |
| luke-jr | last time I checked, Ubuntu was x86 only | 18:18 |
| johnx | debian is compiled for armv4t and is still based on a normal init | 18:18 |
| johnx | luke-jr, nope. it's been multi-platform since it started | 18:19 |
| johnx | there arm port is recent though | 18:19 |
| luke-jr | guess they don't ship ARM CDs out free | 18:19 |
| johnx | ahaha...nope | 18:19 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, http://bugzilla.gnome.org/show_bug.cgi?id=315645 explains all the details of tap-n-hold problem | 18:19 |
| johnx | but your c760 doesn't have a cd-rom drive either :P | 18:19 |
| luke-jr | ☺ | 18:19 |
| luke-jr | would be nice if they shipped bootable SD cards | 18:19 |
| johnx | luke-jr, yes, and I'd like to be the king of Tasmania and where a shiny hat | 18:20 |
| luke-jr | wear* | 18:20 |
| * qwerty12 's throne is under attack by johnx it seems... | 18:20 | |
| luke-jr | johnx: so would getting it on my 760 be easy, or am I best waiting for the next Nokia thing? | 18:21 |
| johnx | luke-jr, I used up my proper english quota for today :P | 18:21 |
| * luke-jr doesn't have a lot of time, and needs to find the C760 itself, and find a solution for its dead battery | 18:21 | |
| johnx | luke-jr, if you wait for nokia it will be a long wait :P | 18:21 |
| luke-jr | why? :/ | 18:21 |
| johnx | because they'll never support it | 18:21 |
| johnx | it's a community project | 18:22 |
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| luke-jr | I mean Nokia's next handheld | 18:22 |
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| luke-jr | presumably shipping with Maemo | 18:22 |
| johnx | aaah, well, then yeah, if you want to wait 6 months the next handheld will prolly be really nice | 18:22 |
| luke-jr | 6 mo :o | 18:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | August, now, eh? | 18:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | It'll be sooner than that. | 18:23 |
| luke-jr | I'm so tempted to get the N810 :/ | 18:23 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, maybe, maybe. :P | 18:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | "I'll believe it when I see it" | 18:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm going to stab the next person that says that. :P | 18:23 |
| luke-jr | the N810 currently costs about 8 hours of work for me | 18:23 |
| johnx | luke-jr, then go for it. ~$220 @ buy.com it seems. nice devices | 18:23 |
| qwerty12 | I'll believe it when I see it | 18:23 |
| luke-jr | will getting the 760 working take > 8 hrs? | 18:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~stab qwerty12 | 18:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Poor infobot | 18:24 |
| qwerty12 | Muhahahaha, no infobot. Hire a better hitman :P | 18:24 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles stabs qwerty12. The attack was not effective | 18:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | I wish jott were about | 18:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | He needs to come back and finish his bot | 18:24 |
| luke-jr | johnx: will getting the C760 working take > 8 hrs? | 18:24 |
| johnx | luke-jr, right now, probably less than 8 hours if you follow directions. if you wait until february I hope to have something very simple :) | 18:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Since we can't count on Infobot | 18:25 |
| luke-jr | oo | 18:25 |
| luke-jr | Feb 1? | 18:25 |
| luke-jr | >_> | 18:25 |
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| johnx | luke-jr, not giving release days :P | 18:25 |
| johnx | luke-jr, it would be faster, if *someone else with a zaurus* wanted to help >_< | 18:25 |
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| luke-jr | johnx: well, I can't even find mine yet | 18:26 |
| luke-jr | so it might be until Feb before I have one to test :þ | 18:26 |
| luke-jr | any idea where I might have put it? | 18:26 |
| johnx | luke-jr, what ROM are you running on it? have you tried zubuntu? | 18:26 |
| luke-jr | johnx: currently it has a custom OE build | 18:26 |
| johnx | and you built that OE build yourself? | 18:27 |
| luke-jr | yeah | 18:27 |
| johnx | aaah...way less than 8 hours :P | 18:27 |
| luke-jr | http://luke.dashjr.org/programs/oz-ljr/ | 18:27 |
| luke-jr | back in 2006 | 18:27 |
| luke-jr | :þ | 18:27 |
| qwerty12 | "Also, OZ-ljr is maintained live-- new versions every day! =p" :P | 18:27 |
| johnx | basically it's just debootstrap ubuntu-minimal, chroot to install some things, use altboot to boot from sd and install mer-specific packages | 18:28 |
| johnx | if you're interested though I'll spend time working on the image builder for zaurus so it's just 'untar to sd and boot with altboot' | 18:30 |
| johnx | so tell me when you find your c760 :) | 18:30 |
| slonopotamus | n8x0 uses tslib, right? | 18:30 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, yes | 18:30 |
| luke-jr | johnx: I'll need to figure out altboot too ☺ | 18:30 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, then i have something really interesting: http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=495487 | 18:30 |
| johnx | luke-jr, compile it and install it. done :P | 18:30 |
| qwerty12 | Is http://repository.mer.tspre.org/ down? | 18:31 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, the lower level of tap-n-hold, the more apps can benefit from it | 18:31 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, and there's a patch for tslib | 18:32 |
| slonopotamus | what means _all_ x apps | 18:32 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, reading | 18:33 |
| slonopotamus | i like it | 18:33 |
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| johnx | slonopotamus, it will possibly break some maemo apps | 18:34 |
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| slonopotamus | johnx, for ex? | 18:35 |
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| slonopotamus | johnx, it will repair tons of non-maemo apps :) | 18:35 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, the first page you linked about gtk stylus suggests that a tap-hold in maemo generates a different callback than 'right click' | 18:36 |
| opengeekv2 | anybody knows if its possible to make telephonic calls witha NIT linked to a phone via bluetooth? | 18:36 |
| johnx | unless maemo apps are watching for right click as well as the custom 'tap and hold' callback I think it will mean they get nothing | 18:36 |
| slonopotamus | right | 18:37 |
| slonopotamus | but that never got implemented | 18:37 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, huh? what do you mean? | 18:37 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, gtk bug has long discussion and they didn't come to conclusion | 18:37 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, it's in maemo's gtk, not upstream gtk | 18:37 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, that bug is still open | 18:37 |
| johnx | how do you think tap-and-hold works now? | 18:37 |
| slonopotamus | hmm | 18:38 |
| slonopotamus | i meant it wasn't implemented upstream | 18:38 |
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| johnx | opengeekv2, I think there's a way to make the phone dial, but the voice doesn't get sent to the NIT | 18:38 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, well, mer and maemo use maemo-gtk so upstream isn't really related... | 18:39 |
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| opengeekv2 | ok it's what i suspected | 18:39 |
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| opengeekv2 | thanks | 18:39 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, ok. i'm not sure i like maemo-gtk, so i'm searching for alternatives | 18:39 |
| johnx | opengeekv2, you could use it with a bt headset if your phone supports bt :) | 18:39 |
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| johnx | slonopotamus, going to make your own distro? :) | 18:40 |
| TheFatal | i have a problem... :S why when i press home button, where said "Home", now says "tana_fi_home" | 18:40 |
| johnx | TheFatal, what did you install recently? | 18:41 |
| TheFatal | openbox and sliderotate_support_n810 | 18:41 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, nope. going to add some ebuilds to gentoo so it has enough apps to be used on n8x0 | 18:41 |
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| johnx | slonopotamus, ah, cool then :) Keep in mind that most maemo apps won't work compile with the normal version of gtk | 18:42 |
| johnx | <- fails at english tonight | 18:42 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, that's their problem :) | 18:42 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, it's just a heads up. it bit me in the @$$ so I figured I'd warn you | 18:43 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, i dislike this too. going away from upstream doesn't offer any benefits | 18:44 |
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| slonopotamus | but many troubles :) | 18:44 |
| johnx | dislike what? | 18:44 |
| johnx | and the thing is, we have many upstreams. the pain comes from trying to mix-and-match different upstreams | 18:44 |
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| slonopotamus | what your process is - a constant merging with conflicts | 18:45 |
| slonopotamus | it's a hardest operation | 18:46 |
| slonopotamus | the | 18:46 |
| johnx | the hardest would be taking ubuntu's gtk and trying to make it work with maemo apps | 18:46 |
| slonopotamus | take gnome foundation's gtk :) | 18:48 |
| johnx | same difference :P | 18:48 |
| johnx | so how goes gentoo? do you have a complete desktop for it yet? | 18:48 |
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| slonopotamus | nope, i'm choosing it | 18:50 |
| johnx | tried lxde? | 18:50 |
| slonopotamus | i don't want to loose many already present ebuilds by using maemo gtk | 18:51 |
| johnx | lxde is based on normal gtk | 18:51 |
| johnx | very lightweight. even lighter than xfce | 18:51 |
| slonopotamus | good | 18:51 |
| slonopotamus | but if i use vanilla gtk, i need right mouse support. | 18:52 |
| johnx | we used it as default in deblet for a while, but it was tough to get an onscreen keyboard integrated | 18:52 |
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| woglinde | johnx what do you use now? | 18:52 |
| slonopotamus | that's the second problem :) | 18:52 |
| johnx | woglinde, well deblet is on hold while we focus on mer. and mer is hildon-desktop :) | 18:53 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, I won't lie, it's a real PITA. I got matchbox-keyboard to mostly play nice with sawfish wm | 18:54 |
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| slonopotamus | johnx, why not matchbox-kb with matchbox-wm? | 18:54 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, if you're using matchbox wm you might as well use maemo... | 18:54 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, see above :) i don't like patched gtk | 18:55 |
| johnx | neither did Stskeeps or I at first. We both spent time trying to have our cake and eat it too :) | 18:56 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, so, i have my right to try :) | 18:57 |
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| slonopotamus | johnx, you thought i'm insane when i started porting gentoo :) | 18:57 |
| johnx | of course. :) I can't tell you what to do. And feel free to ask questions about the problems I ran into | 18:57 |
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| Jaffa | re | 18:58 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, I *still* think you're insane for porting gentoo. Whether you succeed or not doesn't change that :P | 18:58 |
| slonopotamus | i really appreciate your advices | 18:58 |
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| slonopotamus | :D | 18:58 |
| slonopotamus | btw, cpu is not a problem, it's fast enough | 18:58 |
| slonopotamus | ram is much worse | 18:58 |
| johnx | you're far more patient that I... | 18:58 |
| slonopotamus | i have to quit microb when building apps | 18:59 |
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| johnx | not booting yet? | 18:59 |
| slonopotamus | it's too ram-hungry | 18:59 |
| slonopotamus | nope. i don't have much free time :) you saw how i started with gentoo somewhere in october | 19:00 |
| johnx | yup | 19:00 |
| johnx | kind of a rough start that time, IIRC | 19:00 |
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| * fireun wishes he could solder more ram onto his 770s | 19:02 | |
| slonopotamus | i have to choose next target. either gui or booting. but booting without gui is pretty useless | 19:02 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, no usb keyboard? | 19:02 |
| Shadow__X | ehy does anyone know how to change the time format in gpe | 19:02 |
| Grackle | fireun, has anyone tried that? | 19:02 |
| johnx | fireun, lots of us have gadgets we feel that way about :/ | 19:02 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, can't find female-female usb cord here :( | 19:02 |
| qwerty12 | Is it possible for gconftool to dump a gconf schema file, or will I have to write one manually (ouch) myself? :/ | 19:02 |
| johnx | ah, sad. have you tried usbnet? | 19:03 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, not yet | 19:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Grackle, you'd have to be a machine to solder new RAM on there. | 19:03 |
| Grackle | Nah, surface mount soldering is easy. | 19:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | BGA | 19:04 |
| r2d2rogers | fireun: where ya from? | 19:04 |
| Grackle | That's tricker, but a hot plate and a rework station will do it. | 19:04 |
| Grackle | trickier* | 19:05 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, actually i can say that i spent ~80% of time collecting info and ~20% for working for my first goal (working chroot) | 19:05 |
| Grackle | I just wouldn't know how to go about doing it. Is there room for more RAM? | 19:05 |
| Grackle | Or would you have to remove the RAM that's in it and replace it with a higher capacity chip? | 19:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | You'd have to swap in a bigger chip. | 19:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't know if it would actually work anyway. | 19:07 |
| slonopotamus | i'll pay $200 to anyone who can put 256mb ram on my tablet (and if it'll still work) :) | 19:07 |
| fireun | looks like I kicked over an anthill | 19:07 |
| johnx | fireun, i was agreeing with you :) | 19:08 |
| luke-jr | slonopotamus: is there a penalty if I fail> | 19:08 |
| luke-jr | ? | 19:08 |
| johnx | I'd love 128MB of RAM in my zaurus | 19:08 |
| * Grackle off to class | 19:09 | |
| Shadow__X | anyone gpe 12 hour time instead of 24 | 19:09 |
| luke-jr | specifically, I'll give it a try, and accept $200 if I succeed, but I'd probably fail | 19:09 |
| luke-jr | :þ | 19:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | slonopotamus, why not just buy a new tablet? :P | 19:09 |
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| luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: none exist with 256 MB RAM? | 19:09 |
| Pavlz | hello | 19:09 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Yet | 19:10 |
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| Pavlz | in which repository must be the command line whois ? | 19:10 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, I'll believe it ... OMG, don't kill me! | 19:10 |
| fireun | wheres my terrabyte of unified memory? | 19:10 |
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| Shadow__X | anyone use gpe here | 19:11 |
| luke-jr | fireun: a TB of memory that can only hold one value? | 19:11 |
| luke-jr | why not just use a bit? | 19:11 |
| johnx | fireun, sorry, I was going to bring it to you, but I accidentally dropped it in the future... | 19:12 |
| Jaffa | Shadow__X: I believe it uses LC_TIME | 19:13 |
| Shadow__X | so how do i change that | 19:14 |
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| Shadow__X | is that a file i can edit Jaffa | 19:14 |
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| fireun | johnx: oh, well let me just take a walk into tomorrow, I'll be right back | 19:17 |
| johnx | hmm...I'm already in your tomorrow. I don't see it around here :/ might be farther up the road | 19:17 |
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| Jaffa | Shadow__X: It's an environment variable. Google should help | 19:20 |
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| Pavlz | how to enable the usb in host mode ? | 19:21 |
| johnx | Pavlz, http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_host_mode | 19:21 |
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| Shadow__X | how do you reset xterms zoom after you mess with it using the zoom keys on a n180 | 19:25 |
| qwerty12 | By pressing the buttons to get it back to how it was before perhaps? | 19:26 |
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| Shadow__X | but what if you do not remember how many times you have pressed the buttons and do not remember how it should look | 19:27 |
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| Jaffa | There's no "should" look,you change it until you're happy. Nokia aren't going to send you an email, telling you off for having the "wrong" settings ;-) | 19:30 |
| johnx | Jaffa, actually the part where it doesn't send that email is a bug :D | 19:31 |
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| Shadow__X | hmm | 19:31 |
| Shadow__X | i meant default setting | 19:32 |
| Shadow__X | but yeah i get it | 19:32 |
| Shadow__X | i added a line in /etc/osso-af-init/locale | 19:32 |
| Shadow__X | expor lc_time =en_us | 19:32 |
| Jaffa | Shadow__X: I think it just changes the size in Tools > settings. | 19:32 |
| Jaffa | I use "Droid Sans Mono 10" | 19:33 |
| qwerty12 | It's a seperate setting to the font size in settings. Odd but true... | 19:33 |
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| Jaffa | qwerty12: but it doesn't expose it in the menu? Pfft | 19:33 |
| qwerty12 | Jaffa, it used to: http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/screenies/xterm-mod3.png :). But it was removed for some reason (I readded it) | 19:34 |
| Jaffa | It's these little details which makes Maemo look like the poorest, cobbled together, open source man-in-a-garage effort | 19:34 |
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| * Jaffa suspects he may be in a bad mood today. | 19:35 | |
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| qwerty12 | For speaking bad against Nokia? ;) | 19:35 |
| johnx | Jaffa, hence, garage.maemo.org :D | 19:35 |
| Jaffa | Doing some Mer homepage wiki page editing and mud changes to finish off the vim package and get it into extras | 19:35 |
| johnx | ah, Thanks Jaffa :) | 19:36 |
| Jaffa | johnx: little did we know that Nokia were going back to Apple/HP levels of innovation | 19:36 |
| * johnx should get back to mer stuff | 19:36 | |
| timeless | um | 19:36 |
| timeless | what does +)pt mean? | 19:36 |
| johnx | font sizes are in 'points' or 'pt' | 19:36 |
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| timeless | sure, but what's +0pt? | 19:37 |
| Jaffa | johnx: I'm thninking of something like getfirefox.com, reusing the large friendly buttons from my maem.org mockup (URL not to hand) | 19:37 |
| johnx | so your default font is 10pt + 0pt of additional zoom | 19:37 |
| timeless | wouldn't a humand call that 'normal'? | 19:37 |
| johnx | timeless, software isn't written by humans | 19:37 |
| timeless | oh | 19:37 |
| Jaffa | Message should be | 19:37 |
| timeless | btw, that isn't a font size menu | 19:37 |
| timeless | it's a font zoom menu | 19:37 |
| timeless | XXX fix me before i take away your banana | 19:38 |
| johnx | timeless, it's fixed. it was removed. | 19:38 |
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| johnx | now there's no way to set it to a certain zoom level through the menu. problem solved, eh? | 19:38 |
| Jaffa | johnx: http://www.bleb.org/software/maemo/maemo-org_mockup.png for getting involved & downloading | 19:38 |
| johnx | Jaffa, looks very nice :) So that's the design that's gonna be official? | 19:39 |
| johnx | BTW, tell me it's not fixed width ... please | 19:39 |
| Jaffa | Nah, maemo.org's gonna be betterf than that | 19:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, hit up the minutes on -community. :P | 19:40 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, ah, ok. will check later | 19:40 |
| Jaffa | And fixed width is evil; and this week's meeting (finally) switched the new design to be fluid; after X-Fade proved it could be done | 19:40 |
| johnx | Jaffa, aaah. I misunderstood. so you're borrowing the buttons for mer wiki? | 19:40 |
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| Jaffa | johnx: yup. I'm proud of them :) | 19:40 |
| johnx | yeah, it'd be nice for it to look like 'more than just another wiki page' :) | 19:41 |
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| timeless | sp3000 comnplains that the font size for the top stuff is too small, unless zoom works really well | 19:44 |
| timeless | typos all mine | 19:44 |
| Shadow__X | it doesnt seem like anyone on itt has solved the 24 hour view on gpe summary | 19:45 |
| Jaffa | johnx: bsolutely | 19:45 |
| johnx | Shadow__X, most of the world uses 24h time | 19:45 |
| Pavlz | usb-otg-plugin requires too much dependencies | 19:46 |
| johnx | Pavlz, i suggest usb control | 19:46 |
| Shadow__X | yeah but i live in a controller that does not bend to peer pressure | 19:46 |
| Pavlz | to be installed on nokia 770 | 19:46 |
| johnx | Pavlz, you need something totally different on the 770. you need a different kernel | 19:46 |
| Pavlz | i just try it without any success | 19:46 |
| Shadow__X | country* | 19:47 |
| johnx | Pavlz, sorry. I forgot you had a 770 earlier | 19:47 |
| qwerty12 | iirc, the linux flasher has an option for enabling host mode on 770 | 19:47 |
| StOrM_NW | any site that i can get hints about python development for maemo? or any known application that i can get the source that is already running at the tablet that was write in python? | 19:47 |
| johnx | qwerty12, ah, is it just a flasher thing? | 19:47 |
| Pavlz | if this mean to flash i renunce to it | 19:47 |
| Pavlz | i have spent all the night to find all the packages | 19:48 |
| qwerty12 | johnx, flasher-3.0 has the option to "--enable-usb-host-mode" which I have read being used to enable 770's host mode. But I don't know if that is the "de facto" way (or even if it is the only way to do so). | 19:48 |
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| Pavlz | i think to do in hardware way | 19:50 |
| jpt9 | Hey. | 19:50 |
| * jpt9 has a 1GB RSMMC card for his 770 :-D | 19:50 | |
| * jpt9 is happy. | 19:50 | |
| Pavlz | i saw other people that build a circuit | 19:50 |
| timoph | StOrM_NW: http://pymaemo.garage.maemo.org/ | 19:50 |
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| Pavlz | i thank you | 19:51 |
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| johnx | Pavlz, yes. there are two parts for the 770: a hardware part, then you need to use flasher to enable host mode (You don't need to reflash) | 19:51 |
| Myrtti | really annoying that atleast I see in the wiki recent changes my own nickname still as if it wouldn't have a userpage | 19:51 |
| johnx | if you google; nokia 770 usb host mode you should find answers | 19:51 |
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| Pavlz | the cable jtag for nokia 770 | 19:53 |
| johnx | that's different | 19:53 |
| johnx | I think | 19:53 |
| Pavlz | that is similar to a mini rs 232 | 19:53 |
| qwerty12 | hell no, that's for the serial port at the back which has nothing to do with usb host. | 19:54 |
| Pavlz | where is possible to find ? | 19:54 |
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| Pavlz | yes i know | 19:54 |
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| zecrazytux | hi | 19:54 |
| Pavlz | but where can i buy it ? | 19:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Myrtti, there's a bug about it. | 19:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Contributions are broken too | 19:55 |
| Pavlz | the center of assistance don't give me one | 19:55 |
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| Pavlz | on the web i don't know where to search | 19:56 |
| qwerty12 | I think the general consensus is that you have to make one yourself... | 19:56 |
| Myrtti | GeneralAntilles: yeah, that's really annoying as well | 19:56 |
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| zecrazytux | I'm running a plain Debian armel on my N810 for testing. I copied the rx-44 keyboard symbol file and use 'setxkbmap -symbols "nokia_vndr/rx-44(fr)" to get a french keyboard mapping, but fn and ctrl keys don't work | 19:58 |
| zecrazytux | what else do I need ? | 19:58 |
| Pavlz | anyone bought the jtag cable for nokia 770 ? | 19:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Myrtti, has to do with accounts being imported from Garage. | 19:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Pavlz, there's nothing to buy. | 20:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | You'll have to make your own. | 20:00 |
| Pavlz | i could to do it | 20:02 |
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| Pavlz | if there is a map of pins | 20:02 |
| Pavlz | Gnd, Rts, | 20:02 |
| Pavlz | but the connector ? | 20:03 |
| Myrtti | GeneralAntilles: suspected as much | 20:05 |
| * qwerty12 remembers to never offer help in packaging a python app again... | 20:06 | |
| r2d2rogers | Stslap: any word on the mer repo? | 20:07 |
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| johnx | qwerty12, difficult? | 20:07 |
| johnx | aaah. pymaemo? | 20:07 |
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| qwerty12 | johnx, a fucking nightmare. I've used distutils with a setup.py that installs files correctly in the "python way" but I'm changing the way modules are imported etc on a ton of files etc :/ | 20:08 |
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| johnx | did you ever find what you wanted about gconf and dumping a schema? | 20:08 |
| qwerty12 | No, that's for something else, I've left that to one side for now :) | 20:09 |
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| qwerty12 | I think you're meant to write the file out manually. Would be nice if you could dump a copy from gconf itself in the schema format... | 20:09 |
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| johnx | there's a get-scheme but it just prints the name I believe | 20:11 |
| * slonopotamus has successfully compiles git, cvs and svn in gentoo | 20:11 | |
| slonopotamus | s/compiles/compiled | 20:11 |
| slonopotamus | infobot died? | 20:12 |
| johnx | yes, and your syntax is wrong | 20:12 |
| qwerty12 | Yes, but that substitution wouldn't have worked anyway | 20:12 |
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| slonopotamus | s#s/compiles/compiled#s/compiles/compiled/# | 20:12 |
| slonopotamus | k? | 20:12 |
| qwerty12 | nah, all it needs is a "/" on the end | 20:13 |
| johnx | that's what he did :) | 20:13 |
| slonopotamus | i added / ;) | 20:13 |
| johnx | but infobot (even when it's here) doesn't understand anything but s/foo/bar/ | 20:13 |
| zecrazytux | nobody knows ? | 20:13 |
| qwerty12 | I was looking at it in regards of the first substitution :), the second one seems overkill for infobot ;) | 20:13 |
| slonopotamus | :) | 20:14 |
| slonopotamus | anyway. i didn't come across anything that didn't work in my gentoo | 20:14 |
| johnx | zecrazytux, which x server are you using? | 20:14 |
| slonopotamus | i wonder if anyone else has eabi gentoo, or i'm first :) | 20:15 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, some people working on it for the pandora | 20:15 |
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| zecrazytux | johnx: xserver-xomap | 20:16 |
| zecrazytux | from the deblet project | 20:16 |
| johnx | only thing I can think of is to try xmodmap -pke from both maemo and your debian install | 20:16 |
| zecrazytux | but I think they don't modify it, It may come from maemo | 20:16 |
| lardman | johnx: http://www.gp32x.com/board/index.php?s=&showtopic=46265&view=findpost&p=691679 | 20:17 |
| johnx | in deblet I believe HAL sets the keymap | 20:17 |
| lardman | johnx: well that well and truely blows it out of the water | 20:17 |
| * RST38h moos | 20:17 | |
| zecrazytux | johnx: well, I don't want to use deblet | 20:17 |
| RST38h | johnx/qwerty/lardman/all helo | 20:17 |
| zecrazytux | johnx: how in maemo is the keymap set ? | 20:17 |
| lardman | hi RST38h | 20:17 |
| qwerty12 | hi RST38h | 20:17 |
| johnx | zecrazytux, with HAL | 20:17 |
| * lardman grabs a glass of wine and does something useful like updating the sbc patches | 20:18 | |
| slonopotamus | sbc - ? | 20:18 |
| lardman | rather than being shocked at the rubbish handling of the Pandora | 20:18 |
| RST38h | http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,481426,00.html | 20:18 |
| zecrazytux | johnx: and what are the file used ? rx-44 is not sufficient ? | 20:18 |
| lardman | slonopotamus: a2dp stuff | 20:18 |
| slonopotamus | oh | 20:18 |
| lardman | will update with ssvb's latest patches, so we can have sbc goodness too :) | 20:19 |
| johnx | zecrazytux, there's a .fdi file in maemo that's not in deblet. other than that make sure dbus is started before HAL and HAL is started before xserver-xomap | 20:19 |
| johnx | sorry I don't remember the name | 20:19 |
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| johnx | lardman, yeah. I heard about that. are you gonna stick with it still or wait until there is actual hardware out there? | 20:21 |
| zecrazytux | johnx: i've found this: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/35105, that gives great information | 20:23 |
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| lardman | johnx: no it's canned as far as I'm concerned, I only wanted some omap3 hardware, and if they don't take CC I'm not interested | 20:23 |
| zecrazytux | I've found it thanks to you, eh :) | 20:23 |
| zecrazytux | johnx: many thanks | 20:23 |
| Khertan_n810 | Hi again ! | 20:23 |
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| lardman | johnx: what about you? Did you pay, I can't remember? | 20:23 |
| johnx | zecrazytux, sure. no problem. | 20:24 |
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| johnx | lardman, I'm hanging in there. I'm going to pass on the next Nokia produkt unless someone just hands me one I think | 20:24 |
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| lardman | johnx: oh yeah, you were after the gaming controls weren't you. I'd far prefer a Nokia tablet to the Pandora. Might have to get a Beagle now to fill the gap | 20:26 |
| * lardman grumbles about wasting time waiting for the Pandora | 20:26 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | johnx, you don't think you can get a discount code? | 20:26 |
| johnx | lardman, I was after 'early access' and some other niceties. gaming controls are a plus though | 20:26 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, dunno. have to see when it comes out and whether I'm in a position to use it :) | 20:27 |
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| johnx | GeneralAntilles, but to answer your question: no I didn't think I'd get one when I ordered the pandora | 20:27 |
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| StOrM_NW | i bought a nokia N810 .. and i m trying to use the maemo sdk+ that was released. maemo sdk+ had installed the rootstrap diablo4.1.2_armel as the default rootstrap to use, can i use it for development for n810, the tablet is using the original firmware that comes when ya buy a new device. OS 2008, is this the diablo4.1.2 version? | 20:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | johnx, with Deblet and everything? | 20:29 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I think you underestimate yourself. | 20:29 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Did you _see_ some of the people they handed those things out to last time? | 20:29 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: oi! ;) | 20:29 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, i actually didn't do much with deblet, and in september I wasn't really planning to do much more on it | 20:30 |
| johnx | StOrM_NW, whatever came installed on it is almost certainly out of date. You should install the latest OS for it | 20:30 |
| StOrM_NW | is there any way to see which version is running at it atm? | 20:31 |
| johnx | StOrM_NW, settings -> control panel -> about product | 20:31 |
| qwerty12 | Menu > Settings > Control Panel > About | 20:31 |
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| StOrM_NW | but it just says OS 2008 | 20:31 |
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| johnx | yes, OS2008 has been out since late 2007 :) | 20:32 |
| johnx | what *exact* version does it say? | 20:32 |
| StOrM_NW | oh heheh | 20:32 |
| StOrM_NW | Version: 2.2007.51-3 | 20:32 |
| johnx | right, you're a year out of date :) | 20:32 |
| StOrM_NW | heh lol | 20:32 |
| StOrM_NW | nod | 20:32 |
| johnx | https://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 20:33 |
| StOrM_NW | is it a safe task? | 20:33 |
| lardman | I see Siarhei is being put to good use by Nokia, Cortex code for sbc encoding | 20:33 |
| johnx | StOrM_NW, yup | 20:33 |
| johnx | lardman, optimized assembly for the a8, right? | 20:34 |
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| lardman | johnx: yep, looks like that's what his plan is (from the Bluez list) | 20:34 |
| johnx | very cool | 20:35 |
| johnx | will be looking forward to that :) | 20:35 |
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| lardman | hmm, bluez site doesn't have much info for the budding bluez developer to work out how to download their repo | 20:41 |
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| slonopotamus | i'll tell you one secret | 20:42 |
| slonopotamus | why i like source-based distros | 20:42 |
| slonopotamus | because there's something in watching build log running through screen :) | 20:43 |
| * johnx prefers using his device :P | 20:44 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | Build firefox and you'll soon get bored... | 20:44 |
| johnx | heck, even firefox's build-depends | 20:44 |
| doc|home | it's even better if you use it at work. My last job was a place where they were amazed to see a cli ftp client uploading some files. They'd be blown away to see me running a firefox build. | 20:44 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hehe | 20:44 |
| johnx | doc|home, did they hide under their desks and scream 'witch'? | 20:45 |
| johnx | what? just me? | 20:45 |
| doc|home | hahaha | 20:46 |
| slonopotamus | :D | 20:46 |
| lardman | hmm, anyone have a clue as to how to download Bluez using git | 20:46 |
| lardman | ? | 20:46 |
| * lardman goes looking for some clues | 20:46 | |
| * johnx looks | 20:47 | |
| * slonopotamus dislikes libtool-based builds. they write almost identical commands three times per each file | 20:47 | |
| * lcuk smiles | 20:47 | |
| lardman | ah, git clone git://git.kernel.org/pub/scm/bluetooth/bluez.git | 20:47 |
| lardman | shame they don't mention that on their website | 20:47 |
| johnx | lardman, looks like, beat me to it by a second :P | 20:48 |
| lardman | probably to disuade people like me from using it ;) | 20:48 |
| lcuk | johnx, TTL | 20:48 |
| lardman | johnx: thanks anyway | 20:48 |
| qwerty12_N800 | git sucks for getting a specific branch, I had to do : http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/appman/testing/testing/README just to get release diablo branch | 20:48 |
| lcuk | lardman, pm | 20:48 |
| johnx | 'later lcuk | 20:48 |
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| slonopotamus | oh my | 20:48 |
| lcuk | you goin? | 20:48 |
| slonopotamus | my gentoo git works! | 20:48 |
| johnx | lcuk, ah, I thought TTL was Talk Toyou later | 20:49 |
| lcuk | time to live for the web | 20:49 |
| lcuk | thats why lardman won | 20:49 |
| johnx | also because he was looking for it 15 minutes before me :P | 20:50 |
| lcuk | heh yeah | 20:50 |
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| * slonopotamus is scared of building openoffice | 20:51 | |
| geers | make? | 20:51 |
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| RST38h | TTL is Transistor-Transistor Logic | 20:53 |
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| johnx | TTL is ambiguous | 20:54 |
| RST38h | Whoever thinks it is something different is either too young or never learned any EE | 20:54 |
| * RST38h cackles evilly | 20:54 | |
| jpt9 | Hey. | 20:54 |
| jpt9 | I just got a 1GB RSMMC card; I have around ~700MB or so of ebooks on it... | 20:54 |
| johnx | RST38h, TTL is time to live. whoever doesn't know what it means should get off my Internet | 20:54 |
| RST38h | and? | 20:54 |
| jpt9 | For some reason, FBReader is much slower with it. | 20:54 |
| jpt9 | Any ideas on what might be going on? | 20:55 |
| RST38h | johnx: I have infinite time to live | 20:55 |
| * fireun agrees with RST38h | 20:55 | |
| RST38h | johnx: Means two things: first, your ttl does not apply, second, not getting off =) | 20:55 |
| johnx | RST38h, would explain your routing loops... | 20:55 |
| * fireun sets his parity bit | 20:55 | |
| johnx | jpt9, is it indexing all 700MB? | 20:55 |
| jpt9 | Dunno... | 20:56 |
| RST38h | johnx: Large and Coily is the Tentacled One! | 20:56 |
| jpt9 | I doubt it. | 20:56 |
| jpt9 | They're all either .txt, .htm, or .rtf, none of which, IIRC, FBReader can actually index. | 20:56 |
| RST38h | jpt: If you formatted it in a phone, you may want to reformat on the tablet | 20:56 |
| jpt9 | I don't use FBReader's library; I just add them. | 20:56 |
| jpt9 | I haven't formatted it. | 20:56 |
| jpt9 | It came preformatted. | 20:56 |
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| RST38h | reformat. | 20:56 |
| jpt9 | I'll try doing that this weekend. | 20:56 |
| johnx | so what's slower? fbreader or anything that uses the card? | 20:57 |
| jpt9 | How long would it take in the 770? | 20:57 |
| RST38h | whole week =) | 20:57 |
| jpt9 | lol. | 20:57 |
| johnx | probably about a minute or two? | 20:57 |
| RST38h | if you do it by hand, sector by sector | 20:57 |
| jpt9 | Haven't really tried anything besides FBReader. | 20:57 |
| johnx | did the 770 have metalayer-crawler? | 20:57 |
| jpt9 | johnx: Mine does. | 20:58 |
| * jpt9 is running 2007HE. I think. | 20:58 | |
| lardman | how does one go from Makefile.am -> MAkefile.in -> Makefile? | 20:58 |
| johnx | make sure it's not going nuts :) | 20:58 |
| jpt9 | How? | 20:58 |
| lcuk | lardman configure | 20:59 |
| johnx | jpt9, open x terminal and type top | 20:59 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lardman, autosomething make in file, configure m | 20:59 |
| qwerty12_N800 | akes Makefile | 20:59 |
| lcuk | the .am and .in are parameters used to build the final makefile - i dread seeing them in projects cos i cant run make on them on device | 20:59 |
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| jpt9 | johnx: Doesn't seem to be going nuts or anything. | 21:00 |
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| slonopotamus | johnx, does mer run fsck wher it is imprpoperly shut down? | 21:04 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, let me check the boot scripts. I believe it does, but that was Stslap's thing, not mine :) | 21:05 |
| slonopotamus | ah | 21:05 |
| doc|home | what is this mer of which you speak? | 21:06 |
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| johnx | doc|home, https://wiki.maemo.org/Mer | 21:07 |
| woglinde | ~mer | 21:07 |
| woglinde | hm | 21:07 |
| RST38h | BTW, Tesla is currently doing a Pandora at a much larger scale | 21:07 |
| woglinde | !mer | 21:07 |
| johnx | it's Nokia's hildon moved to a minimal ubuntu base | 21:07 |
| johnx | woglinde, infobot is dead | 21:07 |
| qwerty12_N800 | no infobot | 21:07 |
| woglinde | oh | 21:07 |
| woglinde | where is he gone | 21:07 |
| RST38h | http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/01/22/tesla_takes_tax_break_cash/ | 21:07 |
| lcuk | infbot has deserted us :'( | 21:07 |
| lardman | hmm, doesn't seem to autogen a Makefile | 21:07 |
| RST38h | Don't you, early Pandora adopters, feel happy now? :) | 21:07 |
| slonopotamus | who manages infobot? | 21:07 |
| johnx | RST38h, except pandora honored their original price and is only a couple months late so far :) | 21:07 |
| lcuk | RST38h, hell yeah wouldnt you :D | 21:08 |
| lcuk | oooh thats not right | 21:08 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hah, infobot is connected to freenode - just not in any channel | 21:08 |
| lcuk | lardman does ./configure fail for any reason? | 21:09 |
| johnx | qwerty12_N800, maybe we can pm him and lure him back? | 21:09 |
| lardman | I'm using dpkg-buildpackage | 21:09 |
| lcuk | thats making a .deb | 21:09 |
| qwerty12_N800 | johnx, you first :p. i'll swear | 21:09 |
| lardman | indeed, build & make deb | 21:09 |
| qwerty12_N800 | at it probably :P | 21:09 |
| lcuk | whats the makefile for then? | 21:10 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lardman, what's the debian/rules file like? | 21:10 |
| * lcuk looks at qwerty | 21:10 | |
| johnx | qwerty12_N800, the best part will be when I msg infobot something inane and it's actually someone's nick :) | 21:10 |
| qwerty12_N800 | johnx, lol, always a good situation to be in :) | 21:11 |
| * qwerty12_N800 waves at lcuk | 21:11 | |
| slonopotamus | he doesn't reply | 21:11 |
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| slonopotamus | infobot, i mean | 21:11 |
| *** infobot has joined #maemo | 21:11 | |
| slonopotamus | ahh | 21:11 |
| johnx | lcuk, a dpkg-buildpackage follows the rules in debian/rules, which usually consist (very roughly) of calling ./configure && make && make install, then doing any debian specific shuffling about | 21:11 |
| lcuk | hello infobot | 21:11 |
| slonopotamus | i cured him | 21:11 |
| qwerty12_N800 | yay! | 21:11 |
| lardman | qwerty12_N800: horrible as always ;) | 21:11 |
| * Stslap yawns | 21:12 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | ~hump qwerty12_N800 | 21:12 |
| lcuk | ahhh johnx, i thought it took preexisting stuff | 21:12 |
| slonopotamus | i told him to join #maemo | 21:12 |
| slonopotamus | :) | 21:12 |
| qwerty12_N800 | slonopotamus, wicked :) | 21:12 |
| johnx | ~lart the unbelievers | 21:12 |
| * infobot cuts off the unbelievers's head with a halberd that could have been a little bit sharper | 21:12 | |
| geers | Is there a sshfs applet for maemo? | 21:13 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lardman, hehe, you get used to it eventually :p | 21:13 |
| johnx | ~botsnack | 21:13 |
| infobot | aw, gee, johnx | 21:13 |
| slonopotamus | qwerty12_N800, uh? | 21:13 |
| johnx | geers, yes | 21:13 |
| Stslap | r2d2rogers: apologies, it's really stormy outside and i have to finish a paper today :) | 21:13 |
| Stslap | meant to go to restart it but forgot | 21:13 |
| qwerty12_N800 | slonopotamus, that you got 'im (or her looking at ~shag response...) back | 21:13 |
| slonopotamus | :) | 21:14 |
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| johnx | geers, I think it's in extras | 21:14 |
| qwerty12_N800 | But by doing so, you've sealed my fate because GeneralAntilles can now ~stab me :P | 21:15 |
| geers | Hmm guess I have to google it | 21:15 |
| lardman | hmm, it lies | 21:15 |
| johnx | geers, it's in the extras repository. do you have that enabled? | 21:16 |
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| slonopotamus | ~say hello, people | 21:16 |
| infobot | hello, people | 21:16 |
| vincenzo88 | Hello all :=) | 21:16 |
| slonopotamus | :) | 21:16 |
| geers | Yes | 21:16 |
| qwerty12_N800 | infobot, wipe me down | 21:17 |
| infobot | # dd if=/dev/zero of=me down | 21:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~stab qwerty12_N800 | 21:17 |
| * infobot runs at qwerty12_N800 with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut. | 21:17 | |
| johnx | geers, it won't show up in the application manager. try apt-cache search sshfs | 21:17 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Noooooo | 21:17 |
| geers | Ahh offcourse. But is this for diablo? | 21:18 |
| johnx | geers, yes | 21:19 |
| woglinde | ~mer | 21:19 |
| infobot | hmm... mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint_New and http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint | 21:19 |
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| geers | Ok. Thanks. Igive it a try | 21:19 |
| johnx | infobot, mer is https://wiki.maemo.org/Mer | 21:20 |
| infobot | ...but mer is already something else... | 21:20 |
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| Stslap | infobot, no, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer | 21:20 |
| johnx | infobot, no, mer is https://wiki.maemo.org/Mer | 21:20 |
| infobot | okay, Stslap | 21:20 |
| infobot | okay, johnx | 21:20 |
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| Stslap | infobot, no, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer | 21:20 |
| woglinde | hihi | 21:20 |
| Stslap | http :P | 21:20 |
| johnx | eep O_o | 21:20 |
| johnx | sorry | 21:20 |
| Stslap | infobot, no, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer | 21:20 |
| infobot | Stslap: okay | 21:20 |
| *** Meiz__n810 is now known as Meiz_n810 | 21:24 | |
| x29a | why is infobot only in #maemo and not the others channels anymore? | 21:25 |
| Stslap | x29a: we had lost it for a bit too O_o | 21:25 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | because they haven't told him/her/it to come back | 21:26 |
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| GeneralAntilles | infobot, join #debian | 21:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | x29a, it takes only that. | 21:29 |
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| Stslap | Jaffa: http://stskeeps.jaiku.com/presence/52095448 | 21:30 |
| Stslap | if you want to relay some things :) | 21:30 |
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| Meiz_n810 | ? | 21:39 |
| Meiz_n810 | i didn't know ham is working | 21:39 |
| Meiz_n810 | :) | 21:39 |
| Stslap | so it is | 21:40 |
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| Stslap | but repository is down right now as it's snowing and windy outside :P | 21:43 |
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| johnx | I keep telling you to take your server in from outside :D | 21:44 |
| Stslap | i know but the freezing cold keeps it running well | 21:44 |
| Stslap | :P | 21:44 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Evidently :p | 21:44 |
| * lcuk facepalms | 21:47 | |
| lcuk | infact, its a double facepalm | 21:47 |
| lcuk | with glasses removed | 21:48 |
| lcuk | and a heavy sigh | 21:48 |
| qwerty12_N800 | 2 ascii facepalms coming up, no pastebin! | 21:48 |
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| * lcuk watches qwerty get banned for flooding | 21:48 | |
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| timeless | hello cruel world | 21:52 |
| timeless | i heard a rumor there's a fremantle sdk <something> | 21:52 |
| Stslap | evening timeless | 21:52 |
| timeless | what kind of something is it? | 21:52 |
| Stslap | timeless: second pre-alpha | 21:52 |
| timeless | and how do i get that something? | 21:52 |
| timeless | how do i get the first pre-alpha? | 21:52 |
| Stslap | maemo.org | 21:53 |
| Stslap | # First pre-alpha SDK, first report on API changes and beginning of weekly releases. Suitable for platform development only. December 2008. | 21:53 |
| Stslap | # Second pre-alpha SDK with Media Application Framework and more new platform components around January 2009. | 21:53 |
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| RST38h | Ztz | 21:53 |
| RST38h | Sorry, Sts | 21:53 |
| Stslap | mm? | 21:54 |
| Stslap | but yes, i feel like a ztzzz atm | 21:54 |
| timeless | stslap: right, so how do i get alpha pre 1? | 21:54 |
| Stslap | timeless: http://maemo.org/news/announcements/first_maemo_5_sdk_release_targeting_platform_developers/ | 21:54 |
| timeless | can i use that to get pre1? | 21:55 |
| timeless | i don't want pre2 | 21:55 |
| Stslap | that's the pre-alpha we got, pre2 isn't out yet | 21:55 |
| timeless | oh | 21:55 |
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| Stslap | we're eagerly waiting though | 21:56 |
| timeless | so i'm *about* to run out of time | 21:56 |
| johnx | huh? run out of time for what now? | 21:56 |
| timeless | well | 21:56 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Even though you're timeless? | 21:56 |
| timeless | imagine you want to catalog each version of the sdk | 21:56 |
| lcuk | nokia has a pre? | 21:56 |
| timeless | http://repository.maemo.org/dists/ | 21:56 |
| lcuk | i thought that was palm | 21:56 |
| timeless | only has | 21:56 |
| timeless | maemo5.0/ | 21:57 |
| timeless | but it had: | 21:57 |
| timeless | maemo4.0-beta/ | 21:57 |
| timeless | which means there's no way for me to get older versions of 5.0 | 21:57 |
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| timeless | because they're not kept anywhere | 21:57 |
| johnx | ah. a noble goal | 21:58 |
| johnx | best of luck | 21:58 |
| johnx | huh...and archive.org appears to have stopped indexing that | 21:59 |
| johnx | interesting | 21:59 |
| timeless | robots.txt is powerful | 21:59 |
| johnx | some day ~1995 - 20xx will be a spectacular set of blank pages in lots of history books | 22:00 |
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| johnx | "what were they doing then?" "oh, probably just watching TV." | 22:01 |
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| lcuk | digital dark ages is real johnx | 22:01 |
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| lcuk | people have nothing to show for the last 5 years | 22:01 |
| * qwerty12_N800 resents that. At least I use my tablet when sitting on my seat. | 22:01 | |
| johnx | only way to avoid it is to keep your own data online :) | 22:01 |
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| johnx | what will be most unfortunate is the lack of preserved copies of the news/blogs | 22:02 |
| johnx | already I'm having to do coordinated attacks on google cache / archive.org just to show people articles from a couple years ago | 22:03 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I like that I can't access the archives of the blog my friends and I kept in high school because the domain is owned by a squatter now. | 22:04 |
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| lcuk | johnx, technically now its both easier and more difficult | 22:04 |
| timeless | yeah, i need to poison archive.org so my stuff will survive | 22:04 |
| lcuk | stuff that i knew i could go to the library and lookup is on the whole available online (sometimes behind secure walls, but its there) | 22:04 |
| johnx | to be an archaeologist in 100 years will be quite insane | 22:05 |
| johnx | "writing emulation software based on analysis of partially damaged binaries, 101" | 22:06 |
| lcuk | that problem already exists | 22:07 |
| lcuk | the rosetta stones are *ahem* key to that | 22:07 |
| johnx | heh...looking at the same software compiled for a different OS? | 22:07 |
| lcuk | no, languages in general | 22:07 |
| lcuk | the scaryest thing will be random pieces of printout found in the dig and trying to work out the programs functionality and purpose from that single page fragment | 22:08 |
| lcuk | and evading SCOs robot descendents while you are at it | 22:08 |
| johnx | we'll have emulators on emulators on emulators :) | 22:08 |
| lcuk | :) | 22:08 |
| johnx | just to try and open some 16 year old's poetry in word 6.0 .doc format | 22:09 |
| lcuk | running xephyr in scratchbox in linux in vmware in windows.. | 22:09 |
| lcuk | heh i dug out my cv a couple of months ago and it was in amipro format i think | 22:10 |
| johnx | I really do wonder how long NAND will actually last | 22:10 |
| johnx | retaining data I mean | 22:10 |
| * qwerty12_N800 wonders how much the age field was updated by :p | 22:10 | |
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| dieb_ | hi. I can't manage to get maemo-select-menu-location working | 22:11 |
| lcuk | well qwerty, heres the filename CV_gary_birkett_v4_2008.doc | 22:11 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, hehe :P | 22:11 |
| dieb_ | I placed the .desktop file on /usr/share/applications/hildon and I am calling it manually and doesn't show anything on the device | 22:11 |
| dieb_ | (n810) | 22:11 |
| dieb_ | any tips? | 22:11 |
| * lcuk has only ever needed cv 4 times in his life :) | 22:11 | |
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| lcuk | dieb_, you dont call the .desktop file | 22:12 |
| lcuk | you call the binary or script | 22:12 |
| lcuk | if the .desktop references an osso service that must also be setup correctly | 22:12 |
| dieb_ | lcuk, sorry, i wrote wrong | 22:12 |
| lcuk | and the binary should register itself | 22:12 |
| qwerty12_N800 | dieb_, How are you invoking it? | 22:12 |
| * lcuk puts on his wizard hat | 22:12 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, not needed for ...-location | 22:12 |
| dieb_ | I'm calling maemo-select-menu-location mydesktop.desktop | 22:12 |
| lcuk | ahhh didnt see the first bit | 22:13 |
| dieb_ | lcuk, ;P | 22:13 |
| lcuk | did i get the rest right though? :D | 22:13 |
| qwerty12_N800 | dieb_, running as root? | 22:13 |
| dieb_ | qwerty12_N800, yes, as root or as user, both do not work | 22:13 |
| dieb_ | that .desktop just has Name, Exec, Type and Comment | 22:14 |
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| dieb_ | lcuk, some light please ;~ | 22:17 |
| radic | I need a how to about compiling and booting a new kernel for the N800 | 22:17 |
| dieb_ | qwerty12_N800, hi ? | 22:20 |
| johnx | radic, for n8x0? | 22:20 |
| radic | johnx: yes | 22:21 |
| johnx | radic, http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node12.html | 22:21 |
| qwerty12_N800 | dieb_, I don't know :). I just ran it on a already installed desktop file fine & I've used it successfully in all my postinsts before :) | 22:21 |
| dieb_ | not good (for me) | 22:22 |
| radic | johnx: have you ruby on your N8x0? | 22:22 |
| johnx | radic, I don't | 22:22 |
| dieb_ | qwerty12_N800, maybe my .desktop is invalid | 22:22 |
| dieb_ | is there any ref? | 22:22 |
| dieb_ | found it, nvm | 22:22 |
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| * johnx is having fun with remedial regexps | 22:26 | |
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| dieb_ | qwerty12_N800, does it require an icon ? | 22:27 |
| qwerty12_N800 | dieb_, shouldn't do | 22:28 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | If you can pastebin the desktop file, I can try it over here | 22:28 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: what version of mediawiki are we using? | 22:29 |
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| dieb_ | qwerty12_N800, http://pastebin.embedded.ufcg.edu.br/17 | 22:29 |
| dieb_ | qwerty12_N800, damn | 22:32 |
| dieb_ | the problem was application and not Application | 22:32 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Case sensivity - always an annoyance :) | 22:32 |
| dieb_ | sorry about the time waste ;P | 22:32 |
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| johnx | dieb_, no worries. i ask dumb questions all the time and they haven't kicked me out yet :) | 22:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | 00194FD422 | 22:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://wiki.maemo.org/Special:Version | 22:36 |
| dieb_ | johnx, glad to hear that | 22:36 |
| dieb_ | qwerty12_N800, after my tries | 22:39 |
| dieb_ | the menu has lots of dup items | 22:39 |
| dieb_ | how can I erase them ? ;p | 22:39 |
| Stslap | GeneralAntilles: trying to type your MAC? ;) | 22:39 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | dieb_, no idea :/ | 22:41 |
| johnx | certainly looks that way :) | 22:41 |
| dieb_ | hahaha | 22:41 |
| dieb_ | maybe control panel | 22:41 |
| dieb_ | yay! thats it | 22:41 |
| Stskeepie | johnx: we need to look at control panel too | 22:42 |
| dieb_ | wtf, I can't remove apps | 22:42 |
| lcuk | dieb_ it sounds like you have made your n810 die_ | 22:42 |
| dieb_ | lcuk, :/ | 22:43 |
| johnx | Stskeepie, yeah. why do people have to fiddle with settings? why can't the defaults be good enough for them? | 22:43 |
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| johnx | :P | 22:43 |
| lcuk | because we can | 22:43 |
| * Stskeepie honestly never looked at hildon control panel | 22:43 | |
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| Stskeepie | does it take python applets? | 22:43 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: ping (another extension would be good: http://www.mediawiki.org/wiki/Extension:ImageMap ) | 22:43 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeepie, think it's C only... | 22:44 |
| Stskeepie | qwerty12_N800: we have to change that :P | 22:44 |
| johnx | geep O_o | 22:44 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hehe | 22:44 |
| Stskeepie | there's no real good reason why it shouldn't be just another personal menu like thing. | 22:44 |
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| johnx | in fact, if the menu weren't so cramped or if we had a different launcher, there's no reason it couldn't be *part* of the main menu | 22:45 |
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| smackpotato | as to settings, if it ant broke your not trying | 22:46 |
| dieb_ | :( | 22:47 |
| radic | johnx: where are the kernel-modules located in OS2008? | 22:47 |
| johnx | dieb_, look for .desktop files that were created under /usr/share/applications/hildon | 22:47 |
| johnx | radic, /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/$(uname -r) | 22:47 |
| johnx | IIRC | 22:47 |
| dieb_ | that's the problem | 22:47 |
| dieb_ | johnx, no new .desktop files | 22:48 |
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| johnx | then you need to somehow refresh the menu to reflect that | 22:48 |
| dieb_ | I have 5 copies of my menu item | 22:48 |
| dieb_ | and one file | 22:48 |
| dieb_ | hmm | 22:48 |
| johnx | but I don't remember the command | 22:48 |
| johnx | mumble-buzz-update or somesuch | 22:48 |
| johnx | <- not helpful right now, sorry | 22:48 |
| dieb_ | haha | 22:48 |
| qwerty12_N800 | update-desktop-database | 22:48 |
| johnx | qwerty12_N800, one day your memory will go too :P | 22:49 |
| dieb_ | lol | 22:50 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | hehe, jealousy in the old isn't a nice touch :P | 22:50 |
| dieb_ | yay! | 22:50 |
| dieb_ | worked | 22:50 |
| dieb_ | removed the .desktop and update-desktop-database | 22:50 |
| dieb_ | :) | 22:50 |
| dieb_ | thanks | 22:50 |
| johnx | qwerty12_N800, what was I jealous about again? and where the hell are my teeth? | 22:50 |
| dieb_ | shit | 22:51 |
| dieb_ | i tried adding it again | 22:51 |
| radic | johnx: is the USB-support compiled in the kernel? | 22:51 |
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| dieb_ | all 7 items got back to the menu | 22:51 |
| qwerty12_N800 | johnx, :P | 22:51 |
| dieb_ | haha | 22:51 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lol :/ | 22:51 |
| johnx | radic, the modules g_file_storage and g_serial contain much of the USB support. You should base your new configuration off of the old config file | 22:52 |
| radic | johnx: thx | 22:52 |
| radic | johnx: I have problemes withe a USB-hub that dosn't work | 22:53 |
| * lardman curses debian packaging and hits the sack | 22:53 | |
| lardman | night all | 22:53 |
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| radic | johnx: I thougth a new kernel will help | 22:53 |
| johnx | 'night lardman|gone | 22:53 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | radic, you may as well try disabling CONFIG_USB_OTG_WHITELIST | 22:54 |
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| zecrazytux | what is responsible for "n810 keyboard tip & tricks" under maemo ? that ain't related to the keymap, is it ? is that hildon-input-method ? | 22:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeepie, nah, another serial. ;) | 22:56 |
| Stskeepie | GeneralAntilles: did you see quim's response to firmware images btw? | 22:57 |
| johnx | ah right! I should finish that list (!!) | 22:58 |
| Stskeepie | no sleep for johnx | 22:58 |
| johnx | sorry? 'sleep'? Is that some Swedish word? | 22:58 |
| Stskeepie | hehe | 22:58 |
| r2d2rogers | Stskeepie: no worries, how's the paper going? | 22:59 |
| Stskeepie | r2d2rogers: 'When the centralized management suggests a plausible power saving measure to be deployed and such a power measure is deployed' .. | 22:59 |
| Stskeepie | :P | 23:00 |
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| * qwerty12_N800 pre-orders the book | 23:00 | |
| johnx | qwerty12_N800, I hear it has a twist ending. won't spoil it though | 23:00 |
| * qwerty12_N800 takes johnx's teeth as punishment | 23:01 | |
| johnx | nof my teef! | 23:01 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hehe | 23:02 |
| * johnx tells qwerty12_N800's mom :P | 23:02 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | No! | 23:02 |
| * qwerty12_N800 returns the teeth :( | 23:03 | |
| johnx | this'd be your third grand theft dentures, wouldn't it? | 23:03 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Yes :(. Dunno how I keep getting caught :( | 23:03 |
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| lcuk | if i wanted to setup a webserver in linux can i get it talking to a custom c library? (ie for certain types of files call into libliqbase or some derivative executed on server) ? | 23:06 |
| Stskeepie | lcuk: CGI? :P | 23:06 |
| lcuk | miami or new york? | 23:06 |
| qwerty12_N800 | east london | 23:06 |
| johnx | lcuk, CGI = just have it run some binary | 23:07 |
| lcuk | i thought cgi was something different | 23:07 |
| lcuk | ahhh | 23:07 |
| lcuk | :) thats great | 23:07 |
| johnx | lcuk.com/import-my-stuff.exe?my-new-file.liq | 23:07 |
| lcuk | if i upgraded my server box on liqbase.net does it just become another machien i can ssh into? | 23:07 |
| johnx | huh? I dunno what kind of hosting plan you have | 23:08 |
| johnx | so "it depends" | 23:08 |
| lcuk | unimportant ill pay what i have to if i have to | 23:08 |
| lcuk | as long as i can do that | 23:08 |
| lcuk | if i setup my old craptop as a headless box, is it apache that i install? | 23:09 |
| johnx | yeah, apache would be fine | 23:09 |
| lcuk | :) cool, cos i dont wanna have to reinvent everything ;) | 23:10 |
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| johnx | lighttpd is good too and faster and less stuff to *$&% around with | 23:10 |
| lcuk | i want/need databases and scalability though | 23:10 |
| johnx | it scales. lots of big sites running it, and yes, on most distros it's relatively easy to setup with sqlite or mysql | 23:11 |
| lcuk | ok, ill go with mysql for the real db, sqlite has scared me by being the only sql so far thats case sensitive | 23:11 |
| johnx | and lighttpd has a manageable config file. mucking about in apache is a little daunting at first | 23:12 |
| lcuk | what scripting can i do in light? | 23:12 |
| johnx | I mean, the config files are *clean* and they make sense, but there's just... a lot of them | 23:12 |
| RST38h | lcuk: please please please do not make liqbase depend on mysql | 23:12 |
| lcuk | or is that configurable/installable? | 23:12 |
| lcuk | RST38h, this is the server app | 23:12 |
| RST38h | ah | 23:12 |
| lcuk | nothing to do with client side :) | 23:12 |
| johnx | lcuk, you can have it run arbitrary scripts | 23:13 |
| RST38h | lcuk: no problem then =) | 23:13 |
| lcuk | RST38h, client side sqlite is the only feasible alternative | 23:13 |
| lcuk | option* | 23:13 |
| lcuk | johnx, i meant which languages | 23:13 |
| RST38h | Btw, anyone knows a how-to on making php scripts access files not available for direct download via http? | 23:13 |
| RST38h | i.e. apache should not be able to access them but php scripts should | 23:14 |
| johnx | RST38h, doesn't the php script run with apache's permissions? | 23:14 |
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| RST38h | johnx: it does | 23:14 |
| lcuk | RST38h, same way as other things isnt it, store them in parent folders to the one needed | 23:14 |
| RST38h | that is the whole problem | 23:14 |
| lcuk | ie webserver is www | 23:14 |
| lcuk | database is still in your workspace but in "../data/mydatabase.sq" | 23:15 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Won't work as apache can't access these files and php runs with apache permissions | 23:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeepie, yes. | 23:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Also: Woo! USB Model M. | 23:15 |
| lcuk | permissions like that are different to publically accessible folders | 23:15 |
| RST38h | ? | 23:16 |
| lcuk | the permissions apache has over the file system can be different to the set of visible folders being server | 23:16 |
| lcuk | d | 23:16 |
| lcuk | but im going off very old historical recolections | 23:17 |
| RST38h | I do not think so | 23:17 |
| johnx | generally in unix, servers are locked into a chroot jail | 23:17 |
| RST38h | Is there some howto I can read on this? | 23:17 |
| Stskeepie | GeneralAntilles: any suggestions of strategies for wishlist? we're thinking of doing "definately needed for initial image" "would be useful as part of firmware, but not required, to bring Mer/N8x0 experience close to the Maemo/N8x0" "could be useful for user to be able to download from a Nokia repository".. or something | 23:17 |
| johnx | RST38h, there is some exploit code :) | 23:17 |
| RST38h | johnx: Not really interested in exploits, just need to do a mechanism for safe software distribution | 23:18 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, on my webhost using ftp i can create a folder "privatebinaries". in php when i am running it, i can enumerate that folder. a web user cannot access that folders contents generically | 23:21 |
| lcuk | another example, i have a stats/ folder on my webserver. it accesses the logs/ folder which is nowhere to be seen | 23:22 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I have got a plain BSD machine with shell access | 23:22 |
| RST38h | so, basically, I need to figure out how to do it with permissions | 23:22 |
| lcuk | store your binaries away from webroot giving it apache user access rights | 23:22 |
| RST38h | aha | 23:22 |
| RST38h | interesting idea | 23:23 |
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| RST38h | but isn't this exploitable? | 23:23 |
| lcuk | how? if the user cannot even access or touch the files directly? | 23:23 |
| lcuk | if you make a bad script, sure its doable | 23:23 |
| RST38h | yea, but I am more cncerned about some specially designed URL | 23:24 |
| RST38h | that leads web server to my "safe" directory | 23:24 |
| RST38h | lemme try | 23:24 |
| lcuk | sanitize your inputs then :) download.php?file=../pr0n/clowns/midgets.avi | 23:24 |
| RST38h | urgh! was that a direct quote? =) | 23:25 |
| lcuk | lol | 23:25 |
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| lcuk | ok, should i tackle styling information first, or user input? | 23:27 |
| johnx | Does the 770 need any non-redistributable firmware besides the wifi firmware? | 23:27 |
| johnx | I can never remember if it needed something for bluetooth or not... | 23:28 |
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| Stskeepie | johnx: i think there's a bc4fw.bin or something | 23:30 |
| r2d2rogers | johnx: Ibrf6150fw.bin | 23:30 |
| r2d2rogers | johnx: errr brf6150fw.bin | 23:30 |
| johnx | ah, great | 23:30 |
| johnx | well, not great, but good to know :) | 23:31 |
| Stskeepie | r2d2rogers: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-community/2009-January/002946.html , we're trying to lurk 770 under this too :P | 23:31 |
| r2d2rogers | \o/ | 23:31 |
| r2d2rogers | very nice | 23:33 |
| johnx | aaah, forgot all about DSP tasks | 23:33 |
| johnx | a whole new world of fun | 23:33 |
| r2d2rogers | I've been hunting around on the bluetooth and wifi areas since sapwood is fixed | 23:33 |
| r2d2rogers | Ah yeah | 23:33 |
| r2d2rogers | I'd love to have the sound work again ;) | 23:33 |
| johnx | I think someone is working on a non-dsp based alsa driver | 23:34 |
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| r2d2rogers | Is there any movement on trying to document/give credit/make known the efforts various people in the maemo community are active in? | 23:36 |
| Stskeepie | we don't have mer karma yet if that's what you're asking :) | 23:37 |
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| Stskeepie | r2d2rogers: btw, http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer/Sprints , read through/send me a mail so we can just keep track of people :) (mainly to put on the participants list) | 23:38 |
| Stskeepie | hopefully we'll be able to give credit where credit is due using the sprints and the jaiku microblogs :P | 23:39 |
| r2d2rogers | Stskeepie: got a partly done email in drafts right now... interrupted... | 23:41 |
| johnx | does 770 have bme? | 23:41 |
| Stskeepie | johnx: think so | 23:42 |
| r2d2rogers | random google indicates yes | 23:42 |
| RST38h | lcuk: No, this does not work | 23:42 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: can't read such a file | 23:42 |
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| johnx | RST38h, you can't change the webserver config in any way? | 23:43 |
| arocs | Hi ... | 23:43 |
| johnx | hi arocs | 23:43 |
| lcuk | the principle does work RST38h im sorry if your specific doesnt :$ i dont know any details to help more than i have im afraid | 23:43 |
| arocs | Yesterday i saw that there is a new "distro" for N800 called MER ... What stage is this distro ? | 23:44 |
| johnx | IIRC, the idea is keep it under the webroot, but have the webserver deny direct access to that directory to someone requesting it | 23:44 |
| radic | qwerty12_N800: thx | 23:44 |
| Stskeepie | arocs: http://trac.tspre.org/meiz/screenshots/Screenshot-2.png for instance :) | 23:44 |
| johnx | is the DSP task loader closed? | 23:44 |
| Stskeepie | johnx: osso-dsp-loader is open AFAIK | 23:44 |
| arocs | Now i am installing it to my internal sd .... | 23:45 |
| Stskeepie | arocs: it runs on 770, n8x0, zaurus, x86 | 23:45 |
| arocs | Let's see ... | 23:45 |
| johnx | arocs, just starting to become interesting to people interested in testing or helping develop | 23:45 |
| arocs | It is a very interesing project ... i think ... | 23:45 |
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| RST38h | johnx: I can but would prefer not to | 23:46 |
| RST38h | johnx: the other admin has got certain behavioral problems I would not like to encounter with | 23:46 |
| johnx | RST38h, been a long time since I maintained a web server, but I can't think of any other way to do it...which *doesn't* mean it can't be done | 23:47 |
| RST38h | oh I am sure it can be done, people do it all the time | 23:47 |
| *** housetier has quit IRC | 23:48 | |
| johnx | RST38h, and it's done by configuring a path in the config, not some magic permissions | 23:48 |
| *** alecrim has quit IRC | 23:48 | |
| johnx | (80% assuredness factor) :) | 23:48 |
| arocs | Sound is working in MER? | 23:48 |
| johnx | arocs, nope :) | 23:48 |
| Stskeepie | arocs: we cannot distribute firmwares with closed source things just yet, but we are in good progress of discussing with Nokia on a way to do it :) | 23:49 |
| Stskeepie | arocs: Mer, btw :) | 23:49 |
| arocs | Sounds good | 23:49 |
| radic | repository.maemo.org couldn't resolved inside scratchbox | 23:49 |
| radic | /etc/resolve.conf points to the correct DNS-server | 23:50 |
| timelE61i | rAdic: /etc/nsswitch.conf + /etc/resolv.conf | 23:50 |
| qwerty12_N800 | radic, don't make a new target, DIABLO_ARMEL o ks fine | 23:50 |
| qwerty12_N800 | *works | 23:50 |
| johnx | prelimery wishlist - https://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Wishlist | 23:50 |
| timelE61i | If nsswitch doesn't say hosts: files dns | 23:50 |
| timelE61i | Resolv is ignored | 23:50 |
| arocs | Umm .. i have installed mer ... starting .... ;) | 23:51 |
| Stskeepie | arocs: hehe, good luck, hope you installed bootmenu and such :P | 23:52 |
| arocs | yes , with bootmenu | 23:52 |
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| Stskeepie | johnx: think i'll edit it a bit tomorrow, as there could be some of the closed source parts of Nokia that could be nice to include | 23:52 |
| Stskeepie | i thought gizmo was OSS; heh | 23:52 |
| radic | qwerty12_N800: too late | 23:53 |
| r2d2rogers | arocs: 0.6? | 23:53 |
| radic | timelE61i: the line is included, but it dosn't works | 23:53 |
| arocs | I have yes ... | 23:53 |
| r2d2rogers | arocs: what tablet? | 23:54 |
| arocs | Now i am in the Choose device name screen proccess | 23:54 |
| arocs | N800 | 23:54 |
| Stskeepie | arocs: woo :) at least it boots | 23:54 |
| arocs | For now it is working ... slow but working | 23:54 |
| r2d2rogers | Cool! I know the 770 needs a newer image for that part | 23:54 |
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| Stskeepie | arocs: yeah, our omapfb driver isn't that fast just yet :) | 23:55 |
| * lcuk adds more bacon to it | 23:56 | |
| lcuk | i wonder if thats the magic ingredient in wd40: bacon grease | 23:56 |
| arocs | I have connectted to my home wifi router ... that is good start ... !!! | 23:56 |
| * timelE61i frowns | 23:57 | |
| timelE61i | sorry, i need to order tickets for fosdem | 23:57 |
| lcuk | when is it? | 23:57 |
| arocs | What i see is that it is only maemopad application installed ... ins't it | 23:57 |
| * lcuk might try to do | 23:57 | |
| GeneralAntilles | http://maemo.org/news/events/ | 23:57 |
| Stskeepie | timelE61i: to see fremantle on a beagleboard? ;) | 23:58 |
| Stskeepie | arocs: yes, initial image, next image at 1st february should include an application manager | 23:58 |
| Stskeepie | arocs: you can ssh into your tablet over wifi | 23:58 |
| Stskeepie | and use apt-get | 23:58 |
| arocs | ok | 23:58 |
| lcuk | ouchy, i might not have anything ready by then | 23:58 |
| Stskeepie | username root and password what you chose in installer :) | 23:59 |
| arocs | So it is possible to install programs .. .? | 23:59 |
| Stskeepie | yes | 23:59 |
| Stskeepie | apt-get zenity for instance :) | 23:59 |
| Stskeepie | apt-get install midori, i mean | 23:59 |
| arocs | ok | 23:59 |
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