IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2009-01-22

LinuxCodethat..never complies to RFCs ?00:00
* b-man|hacking hates microsoft00:01
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* Stskeeps uses his xp and is happy about it.00:01
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b-man|hackingi just don't like microsoft's closed-sorce philosophy00:04
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lardmanat least Bill spends his money on useful things though00:07
pupnik_i rather move a lever00:09
pupnik_than lift a rock00:09
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lardmanhmm, good to see the Pandora folks are now demanding cash/bank transfer and no CC allowed00:11
r2d2rogersStskeeps: h-i-m works on the imager run, but not 0.600:11
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: k00:12
GeneralAntillesAh, Pandora.00:12
Stskeepslardman: jesus christ00:12
GeneralAntillesIt's too bad Karel gave up on them.00:12
Stskeepslardman: that just signals way too many alarm bells for me to handle00:12
lardmanyeah, definitely00:12
lardmaninteresting there was a *news flash* this morning, that full opengl would be supported, which now turns out to be a misunderstanding. hmm00:13
r2d2rogersStskeeps: homerun!  all very NICE00:13
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Stskeepsr2d2rogers: sapwood works?00:14
Stskeepsi want screenshots00:14
r2d2rogerslatest imager plus the sapwood from johnx00:14
r2d2rogersyou'll get them00:14
Stskeepsi'll send sapwood to the presses then00:15
lardmananyone here used cwiid?00:15
* Stskeeps tries to figure out how to make vmdk images automatically00:16
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GeneralAntilleslardman, use konttori's package.00:16
lardmanGeneralAntilles: yep, I have done and it works nicely00:17
GeneralAntillescwiid is a mess.00:17
lardmanGeneralAntilles: I was just thinking about linking it through a joystick dev entry though00:17
GeneralAntillesIt's not actually packaged00:17
lardmanhmm, ok00:17
GeneralAntillesSo it just shits all over four FS and then you can't remove it. ;)00:17
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lardmanyeah, not ideal ;)00:17
r2d2rogersStskeeps: what do youthink about changing the usbnet-emergency-telnetd script to remove those read foo's00:18
lardmanI quite fancy the look of this (very basic app):
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: go ahead for now, it's weird 770 doesnt have it00:18
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r2d2rogersit seems like it doesn't make it to console on that option00:19
r2d2rogerswill dig before I commit it as a change00:19
lcukoooh lardman you are getting into this accel stuff :D00:20
r2d2rogersMer on 770
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: \o/00:21
lardmanlcuk: fun toy :)00:21
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lcukyeah i got frustrated and bored when i played in windows, it will work nicely on rx-5100:21
r2d2rogersMer on 770
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: hehe, looks just like on n800 :)00:22
r2d2rogersthat's good <G>00:22
lcukr2d2rogers, step backwards and take a pic including the bezel and a copy of todays newspaper :P00:22
lcukcould we use that tiltstick inside the extended case from craves1 and using the internal serial port?00:27
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: how does it work speed wise?00:27
lardmanlcuk: no idea, I've not seen either, but the hw for that should be pretty small00:27
lcukthat page has links00:28
lcukpictures sorry00:28
lardmanserial port & case?00:28
lardmanah, accelerometer00:29
lcukget one of those for the 32gb upgrade and use the extra space for an accel00:30
lardmanhmm, interesting00:30
lardmanquite a cool hack00:31
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t_s_ook, mnotes have really turned into a wonderapp :D00:32
GeneralAntilleslcuk, who cares, the RX-51 has accelerometers. :P00:33
lcukyou only have to look around at the number of functional 770s people have to see that the 810 isn't going anywhere in a hurry00:34
lardmanGeneralAntilles: and RDS...00:35
lcukrandom dot stereograms? :D00:36
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timelE61imS doesn't have a closed source philosophy00:36
mavhcapparently the RDS traffic updates are trivially easy to spoof, you could report accidents all along your journey to work, causing people to avoid that route, and getting there much sooner00:37
lardmanhmm, Google gives me something else as the first link ;)00:37
timelE61iThey write quality documentation and offer real support contracts00:37
* lcuk googled after00:37
timelE61iLike many vendors they can't write a search engine00:37
lardmanmavhc: yep, I was thinking about receiving the actual reports though, but spoofing would be good too as it also has an RDS transmitter00:37
timelE61iBut that's why people use googe00:37
timelE61iIf you want bad support or bad documentation. Look closer to home00:38
r2d2rogersStskeeps: seems good, will boot the other 770 to OS2008HE to compare00:38
* RST38h curses Genesis and its software00:43
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StskeepsMyrtti: damn, you're busy on wiki00:46
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MyrttiStskeeps: I just realized that I'm two hours behind from Finland00:48
lardmanany thoughts as to how to make using  conic synchronous?00:48
Myrttiso if qlin shows the wikipages tomorrow, she'll be doing it about two hours before I'm even off the bed00:49
StskeepsMyrtti: you employed for this? just curious :)00:49
MyrttiStskeeps: also, I'm a pro in this00:49
MyrttiStskeeps: yup00:49
Myrttiwell, semipro00:50
Stskeepsit usually requires quite a bit of wiki-OCD to do that without pay ;)00:50
Myrttisemipro in the sense that I really breathe Mediawiki syntax in and out00:50
MyrttiStskeeps: which I've done when I was seriously addicted to editing Wikipedia00:50
Jaffalardman: There's a mud package for cwiid00:51
JaffaNot been built for a while, AFAICT, mind.00:51
StskeepsMyrtti: neat :P00:51
lardmanJaffa: thanks, as the General recommended, I think I'll stick with kontorri's app00:53
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LinuxHack3rsisto: Let me tell you, waiting like this and not knowing when it'll ship, or even when they'll get it, is driving me crazy.00:55
r2d2rogersStskeeps: looks like it's comparable at least, load times for 770 will not be quick I'm sure00:56
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: alright00:56
r2d2rogersStskeeps: installing midori to play00:56
r2d2rogersStskeeps: anything you suggest checking out?00:56
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: maemopad? ;p00:57
r2d2rogersit's there, and works00:58
Stskeepshehe, good00:58
r2d2rogerswas going to make that the backoff shot, but boss walked in <G>00:58
* Stskeeps is pondering how to structure the development process of mer.00:58
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LinuxHack3rJust thought of something...what sorta font stuff can you change on the 810? Could I use the Liberation fonts on it?00:59
JaffaLinuxHack3r: Drop ttf files into ~/.fonts/. Use them. Job done.01:00
r2d2rogersStskeeps:  what are the options? <G>01:00
LinuxHack3rJaffa: That'll work great once I get the thing. Can't wait.01:00
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: i'm a little dissatified with having a sprint which has goal of "basic installable image", and more thinking of structuring into release-often sprints, as in, sprint towards 0.7 for instance, set up some goals for 0.701:01
Stskeepsbut i'm not sure what would work for very spread developers01:02
JaffaStskeeps: yes, "basic" isn't a well-defined goal. Something we learned at work when started doing agile (and I hate the word "sprint" for something you're supposed to do every 4 weeks. Sprints should be for big milestones, not every single iteration)01:02
Jaffa"period" and "timebox" are what we use, but then we're not using SCRUM - some other, slightly adapted, agile naming01:03
JaffaOr, given we release at the end of every timebox, "release" would do it :-)01:03
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Stskeepsso maybe a model where there's a release every week, accompanied with "this week in Mer" blog post, where people commit to tasks for the next period, and hope to deliver that at end of week?01:05
Stskeepsweek/two weeks01:06
JaffaI'd say 2 weekly.01:06
JaffaOtherwise you get into a branching nightmare for anything which might take longer than 2 weeks :-)01:06
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Sebhi everyone01:07
JaffaStskeeps: I assume you installed HomeDiskFree, on a mer-running device, from Extras through HAM?01:08
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SebI recently got a n800 as a gift, and am wondering how to best make use of SDHC cards that came with it (one is 2GB, the other is 16GB)01:08
* timelE61i ponders01:08
StskeepsJaffa: uhm, no, not directly, i needed python-hildondesktop to have an extra provides01:08
timelE61icould mer consider fixing the .po strings? :)01:08
StskeepsJaffa: and that's being built atm :)01:08
timelE61iPlease :)01:08
JaffaStskeeps: happy for me to mark the existing HAM task on the blueprint as 100%? There's lots which can be done to it, but probably not part of the initial Merification01:08
StskeepstimelE61i: which ones, 4001?01:08
StskeepsJaffa: yes, it's fine01:09
Sebfor instance, i would like to install EasyDebian, which is apparently quite large, and i am confused as to where one can install apps on the n80001:09
JaffatimelE61i: I was thinking about this earlier. I thought of a few hacks one could do, but why bother? Nokia are going to have to do it through the SDK releases anyway01:09
JaffaStskeeps: ta01:09
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timelE61ijaffa: not 400101:09
Stskeepsbut fixing the .pos you mean01:10
Sebdo they always try to go to the flash memory ? If so, how do I go about making the best us of those 2 cards ?01:10
timelE61iJaffa: have you read bugs filed today?01:10
StskeepstimelE61i: with the weird english strings?01:10
JaffatimelE61i: oh? including the improved messages you were talking about earlier01:10
MyrttiI think I'm done for today01:10
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timelE61iFwiw, i'm mostly walking through the whole fremantle string table01:10
Sebis there a channel best suited for end-user questions ? :)01:11
StskeepsSeb: we always have
JaffatimelE61i: I'd rather rant at Nokia for a bit (shoddy translations indicative of a general sloppiness to the detail which takes an adequate device to a great device) and then put a patch on Bugzilla and merge it into the mer branch.01:11
timelE61iWhere possible i'm just going to file public bugs and pray someone forces them fixed01:11
SebStskeeps: yep, but I like IRC a lot :>01:11
timelE61iJaffa: be my guest01:11
JaffaStskeeps: BTW, my HAM branch should probably be merged to the ~m-r one ASAP01:12
StskeepsJaffa: feel free to sign up :)01:13
JaffaStskeeps: ta :-)01:14
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webulator70Could someone help me with a small prob?01:20
lardmandepends what it is; spit it out01:21
Stskeepshmm, are there any "free" planet-sites? like, for creating your own01:22
webulator70Fm radio on os2008s radio applet only plays fuzz01:22
Stskeepswebulator70: plug in the headphones01:22
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: got a crazy idea..01:22
webulator70So the phones are anteae?01:23
Stskeepswebulator70: yes01:23
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lardmannight chaps01:25
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: basically, we're dealing with widespread collaborative work, and microblogging seems to allow people to "catch up" - and having a planet feeding off these rss'es would be a way to render eachothers activities visible to eachother01:25
lcukirc :P01:25
webulator70I cant seem to use my bt headset after pairing it01:26
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i'm not too fond of their rss feeds though01:26
GeneralAntillesRSS feeds suck anyway01:26
GeneralAntillesI don't know how people use them.01:26
Stskeepsas in, the way they drag them into channels01:26
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* b-man|hacking uses rss feeds for important information01:27
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* FireFox ponders if palm pre will ever be able to run on our tablet since palm pre uses an arm ompa prosessor..... nah :P01:32
JaffaFireFox: Do you think Windows CE will ever run on our tablets since it uses an ARM processor? Or EPOC?01:32
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FireFoxno, because we would need to create a costom bootloader for wince.. witch would be a licencing nightmare01:34
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JaffaIndeed. Why would Palm Pre be any different?01:34
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GeneralAntillesJaffa - Dream Killer01:36
FireFoxbecause, if i am correct, palm pre uses a linux core witch (could) function with our bootloader01:36
FireFoxkinda like Android..01:36
JaffaAndroid's open source and designed to be ported.01:36
GeneralAntillesPre isn't open like Android.01:36
GeneralAntillesPalm makes its money off the hardware01:36
FireFoxi know, that would be another problem ;p01:37
JaffaThere's no evidence at all that Pre will be open - which given the competitive edge it (may) give them, would be surprising01:37
JaffaThe kernel is such a tiny component of the problem01:37
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t_s_ohmm, TI released a opengl driver for omap3?!01:48
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Jaffat_s_o: no01:49
t_s_ook, seems there has been some confusion, crap...01:50
GeneralAntillest_s_o, Pandora people are, apparently, idiots.01:50
t_s_oGeneralAntilles: heh, maybe so...01:50
JaffatimelE61i: yeah01:52
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GeneralAntillest_s_o, the sad part is that they seem to have announced it twice in two days.01:52
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* ENTERANICK [W2I=000:u:0:000:]01:53
JaffaStskeeps: worth splitting the Mer pages into a series of sub-pages (e.g. Mer/Development_process Mer/Releases etc.)?01:53
glassthe problem with announcing vapor shit is that people read the first announcement and not the correction and then go shout it like the fanboys they are(the fanboys who've pre-ordered)01:54
t_s_oGeneralAntilles: could be a case of inmates running the asylum ;)01:54
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StskeepsJaffa: yes, once i'm done butchering it today :P01:54
GeneralAntillest_s_o, oh, like here? ;)01:54
JaffaStskeeps: cool, I'll leave you to it and try and take this opportunity to go to bed.01:54
t_s_oGeneralAntilles: heh, here its only the software part...01:54
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AStormt_s_o: but we can actually write the driver ourselves01:56
AStorma gallium backend01:56
AStormunlike now01:56
t_s_oAStorm: not that i find it likely to ever happen tho :P01:56
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AStormjust alter it to run llvm-compiled armel code on the chip01:59
AStormfor starters01:59
* FireFox wonders if it is time to start saving money for an "N900"..01:59
JaffaFireFox: or time to start really putting loads of effort into big impact community efforts and hope there's a discount programme02:00
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FireFoxshure... ;p02:01
AStormFireFox: I'm saving since I bought the n81002:02
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AStormso I have enough02:02
m0z_workis there any rumours of roughly when the 900 may be released?02:02
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AStormm0z_work: fremantle is likely to show around summer... I'd guess then?02:02
Jaffam0z_work: Next Summer, or thereabouts.02:02
t_s_oend of 2009 at earliest02:02
JaffaOctober 21st, 201502:03
AStormJaffa: ;)02:03
* FireFox works on merinstaller some more..02:05
* FireFox made $1200.00 last summer ;) - but that's reserved for a future Dell Studio 1502:05
timelE61igAn: they don't have a monopoly on that02:12
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GAN800timelE61i, hehe, well. . . . ;)02:14
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* FireFox needs to go, somehow got involved with some theater business02:16
JaffaRight. Bed.02:17
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JaffaStskeeps: can you also document how the dev process should work (personal branches when working on big things perhaps, but also how they should be merged. Is it a new branch working copy of ~mer-committers, a pull from ~aflegg, a commit then a push?)02:26
* Jaffa can find no good information on how to actually best use Launchpad and bzr.02:26
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StskeepsJaffa: yeah, working on it :)02:29
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Jaffacool. I *think* I've done it right. bzr branch lp:~mer-committers/...; cd hildon-application-manager; bzr pull lp:~aflegg/....; bzr push lp:~mer-committers ...02:32
JaffaNow I need to bed.02:32
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Stskeepsas we witness jaffa's transformation into a mer developer.. like johnx and me, trying to cheat sleep ;)02:34
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JaffaI've got baby bottles to fill with water downstairs too.02:34
JaffaI'm gone02:34
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Stskeepsalright, for people involved in Mer or those who want to be, , and read through , sign up by an e-mail to me so we can get you listed and keep a bit track of who would be capable of what :)03:08
Stskeepsi've tried to structure things in a more clearer way, so :)03:08
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* ENTERANICK [W2I=000:u:0:000:]03:26
Mouseylooks ipv6ish03:26
Mouseynot enough :'s tho03:27
Mouseyoh, and "u" isn't hex03:27
* Mousey just shuts up03:27
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StskeepsMousey: or MS comic chat03:28
Mouseywhats that mean? software isn't panning out anymore, so microsoft is going into the comic biz?03:28
Mouseyholy shit, it's jerkcity03:30
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sistoObama got owned03:30
sistothey gave him a windows mobile pda03:31
Mouseycrap, so much for hope03:31
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doc|homewtf is a classified usb port?03:39
Mouseyit's like an unclassified usb port, but i'm not allowed to tell you about it03:39
* doc|home waterboards Mousey 03:39
* Mousey insurges!03:39
doc|homeoh wait, only presidents are allowed to do that03:40
Mouseybut ANYBODY can be a terrorist =)03:40
doc|homeand that's why they have you by the balls :)03:40
doc|home"I'm sorry sir, but we believe you to be a terrorist and are going to shoot you in the face"03:40
sistodoes the nsa have access to the source code?03:40
Mouseyno trial for j00!03:40
Mouseyit's windows! so yes03:41
sistoit looks like a 90's pda03:43
sistowill it run maemo?03:44
sistoor better...03:44
sistowill it run crysis?03:44
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Mouseywtf is a trusted LCD?03:46
sistoit tells you when the other one is lying03:48
AStormit blurs the screen when you play DRMed content03:49
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jaemhello everybody03:59
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jaemhas anyone gotten the built-in chat to work properly with multiple accounts using the same login name?04:00
Mouseyapt-get install pidgin04:01
jaemyes, I thought aboiut that04:02
jaembut does it have proper integration yet?04:02
Mouseywhats that mean04:02
jaemI haven't tried it in a while04:02
RaytrayThere an option on pidgin to make the full screen keyboard hit send instead of return when I hit the enter button?04:02
jaemwell, in terms of full hildonization, as well as notifications (e.g LED)04:02
Mouseythats among the regular pidgin options i beleve04:02
Mouseyoh yea, and there's a LED notification plugin, has been for a while04:03
Mouseybut the contacts menu item is useless04:03
RaytrayMousey, Hmm.. and yet it alluds me. brb while I hunt for it.04:03
jaemokay - I hadn't looked into it, because I was hoping they would fix the default app04:03
jaemI filed a bug on that issue ages ago, and never heard back :S04:03
MouseyRaytray: yah man, it's called n800 LED something04:03
jaemthanks, Mousey04:03
Mouseydefault schmefault... pidgin! =)04:03
jaemI do like Pidgin...04:04
Mouseyi don't04:04
RaytrayMousey, I was referring to...04:04
jaembut I like Kopete rather better04:04
Mouseyits just the best of the worst04:04
RaytrayThere an option on pidgin to make the full screen keyboard hit send instead of return when I hit the enter button?04:04
Mouseyjaem: if kopete (or KDE for that matter) did SOCKS proxies properly, i'd like it more04:04
jaemmousey: it doesn't?04:04
jaemto be honest, I haven't tried that04:04
MouseyRaytray: oh. hang on04:04
jaemI haven't been running KDE much since I sold my laptop04:05
jaemand I have little need to run SOCKS for my desktop04:05
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RaytrayHeh, you don't need to keep your toes warm? :P04:05
jaemRaytray: that's what the USB slippers from DealExtreme are for :P04:05
jaemalthough I don't have any04:06
jaemon that topic... is there a way of configuring the tablet to use a SOCKS proxy?  I noticed some config entries for it, but nothing I could decipher04:06
jaemI mean globally04:06
Mouseyctrl-enter sends04:06
born2wonderhas anybody tried b-man's rootfs for ubunty jaunty. I keep getting an unexpected EOF error when i extract it04:06
RaytrayHmm, wonder if I could convert my computer to a footrest/warmer04:06
RaytrayMousey, onscreen keyboard?04:06
* Raytray has an n80004:06
jaemRaytray: just get a couple quad-core boxen - the whole room will be toasty04:06
Mouseythere's no ctrl on the onscreen keyboard?04:06
RaytrayThere's no multitouch?04:07
jaemRaytray: and if that isn't good enough, put your computer in a toaster, like that guy somewhere on the Net04:07
jaemand no04:07
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RaytrayOh and I can't see the ctrl button either :D04:07
Raytraylol jaem.04:07
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jaempersonally, I'm waiting for the KDE devs to release plasma-mid04:08
* Raytray is stuck on kde 3.5 :D04:08
RaytrayForget 4. >.>04:08
jaemRaytray: do you know what 4.2's codename is?04:08
jaem"The Answer"04:09
RaytrayI think I heard it somewhere though.04:09
jaemhmm... I've tried Debian on my N810, but I keep running into pointer calibration issues04:09
jaemI couldn't find anything conclusive on ITT\04:10
jaemany ideas?04:10
RaytrayNo idea, sorry.04:10
jaemI heard something about copying the calibration data from Maemo over04:10
jaembut I don't know where that's stored04:10
jaem(not that I've really looked)04:10
jaemmy cursor has rendering issues right now... so the Hand looks like it's giving your the Ol' Binary 404:11
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jaemthanks for the help04:17
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AFBN810is there a way to use name completion on tablet version of xchat05:26
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fireunthis is old news, right?06:05
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Mouseyi totally didn't expect that06:09
tank-mansounds old06:09
Mouseynow they're collectors items06:09
TrueJournalsit's not really "old", but it's not new06:09
fireunget em while you can?06:10
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fireunmaybe they did a deal with clearwire, and so will only be "bundled"06:10
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TrueJournals -- Jan 7th06:11
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b-manwhat?!? 0_o06:13
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* b-man is shocked06:14
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johnxmornin' all06:15
TrueJournalsThat wimax edition is discontinued? Or is that sarcasm :P06:15
luke-jrb-man: what use was it?06:15
luke-jrdoes anyone actually use wimax?06:15
fireunI'd buy em at discount prices (:06:16
luke-jrwell, sure, who wouldn't?06:16
fireun"distributors asked to return unsold units"06:16
fireunwhat else will they do with em?06:16
b-mang'mornin johnx06:16
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fireunif I could only trade 770s for a wimax 810 today..06:17
johnxsome people seemed really happy with them in the areas they were supported06:17
johnxthere are ~5 wimax tablet users active on ITT who for the most part have said nothing but good things06:17
fireunI wouldnt say wimax is dead, its just typical US slow adoption.06:17
johnxwell, hopefully it picks up06:18
fireunhopefully a more than a few things in the US pick up06:19
johnxyes :)06:19
johnxlike the metric system conversion06:19
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fireunthe metric system is just confusing, moving the comma around n'all06:21
fireunhow many cups in a quart again? or wait, is it pints to a quart?06:21
TrueJournalsWe just need to follow the guidelines:
luke-jrwhat makes WiMax better than GPRS or such?06:21
fireunand how come a pint of milk is not what I would consider equal to a pint of beer06:21
luke-jrfireun: … don't you know your binary units?06:21
fireunluke-jr: sorry </sarcasm filter>06:22
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johnxluke-jr, well, from a technical standpoint it's faster and from an economic point it's not tied to US celluar carriers06:22
fireunyeah, how do you SELL wimax?06:22
johnx"Come here! Get your hot, fresh wimax! $5!"06:23
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fireunjohnx: now if only the wireless spectrum had a bazaar like that, where you could see what services were offering in your area06:24
fireunand pick which one you want (and magicaly it is paid for, somehow, securely, and transparently)06:25
fireunits all a mess.06:25
johnxwell, intel is pushing it, so you might just see it in most laptops pretty soon06:25
johnxafter that it's just a matter of bundling an ad for it with new laptops06:25
fireunwe've talked about this before, wimax will never be noticed by the consumer, all they see is "my network works"06:26
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johnxthe only place it will be noticed is in places with crappy (landline) ISPs06:26
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yigalhey due06:45
Pavlzwhere can i find the command line whois for nokia 770 os 2006 ?06:46
yigalPavlz: jeez your using 2006?06:46
yigalwow, not sure, that's just insane to hear though06:47
TrueJournalsPavlz: You can try
TrueJournalsNot sure if it will work or not, though06:49
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TrueJournalsYou'll probably have to dpkg -i it06:50
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Mouseywhois isn't in maemo?06:52
Mouseyoh, 77006:52
Pavlzincompatible the package06:55
Pavlzand this why it's more recent06:55
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Pavlzfor ssh ?07:01
johnxPavlz, that's in extras07:03
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r2d2rogersjohnx: did you see?  the 770 is working great with your sapwood.07:03
johnxr2d2rogers, that's great! Just keep in mind I did nothing but an easy compile job. :)07:04
johnxRST38h and Stskeeps are the ones who caught this bug...though I sure have been chasing it for a long time O_o;07:04
r2d2rogersI'm just glad it's working ;)07:05
johnxyeah, that is quite awesome07:05
r2d2rogersnow time to get wireless and bluetooth working07:05
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Pavlzi don't know where to search07:08
johnxbut *don't* just add all the repos there. add them only as you need them07:09
johnxthe first repo to add is extras though:
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Mouseyjohnx: i LOVED adding all the repos there07:16
Mousey =)07:16
Mouseybut i'm a freak07:16
johnxdidn't that end up putting you in a reboot loop or keep you from upgrading? I thought I remembered you have problems with it...07:17
Mouseyyou should see my debian sources.list too07:18
Mouseyin fact07:18
johnxdebuntu sources.list is a little bit different07:18
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johnxa base debian/ubuntu system has almost all of what any 3rd party projects could need so conflicts are less likely07:18
johnxanyways, it's still not recommended even if you had no problems with it. The fact is that other people have and it's no fun debugging... :/07:19
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* b-man sleeps, g'night everyone07:37
johnx'night b-man07:38
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Pavlzwhere can i find the command line whois for nokia 770 ?08:14
Pavlzi found openssh-client08:15
johnxit might be easiest to compile it yourself08:16
Pavlznow i need only of this last one08:16
Pavlzthe ubuntu i got on the tower pc does not work fine08:17
Pavlzinfact it doesn't authorize updates08:17
Pavlzso gcc is not inside08:18
Pavlzand i must to do a backup first to / GNU Deb-Ian08:19
Pavlzwhere is the old wiki ?08:27
johnxit's replaced by the new one08:31
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Pavlzand the applications ?08:33
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johnxsome of the old repositories were closed down I think. many old things are now in extras08:34
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Pavlzwell stupid thing08:37
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RST38hmoo all09:18
* johnx yawns09:19
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Pavlzi don't find the command whois for nokia 77009:24
johnxI think you'll need to compile it yourself in scratchbox09:25
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Pavlzi don't find no binary and no source09:27
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PavlzI invite maemo to put to disposition the older source code and binary09:31
PavlzI go to sleep09:32
PavlzWe see this evening09:33
johnxPavlz, anyways, when you wakeup, get the source from the debian package and compile in scratchbox09:33
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PavlzIs possible to remove the logo nokia at the boot09:36
Pavlzand shutdown09:36
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Pavlzand see the init as happen in any distribution of GNU/linux ?09:37
johnxI don't know how to do that for the 770. sorry :(09:39
Pavlzi go why my eyes are closing09:40
johnxgood night09:40
Pavlzif you want to communicate me anything09:41
Pavlzyou can write to ninuxpdb@gmail.com09:41
Pavlzbye bye09:41
Stskeepsjohnx, and
Stskeepsobjections? just add yourself to participants list09:42
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johnxso .7 by feb 1st?09:42
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johnxalso, we'll end up with our own package of openssh-server?09:48
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johnxas for openssh...that and possibly some other packages could benefit from being installed with --unpack and having --configure run on first-boot09:55
johnxstarting to think grim thoughts about ending up pulling in debian-installer :/09:56
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Stskeeps0.7 is just release often and wrap up often10:04
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aquatixtimeless: sorry for the late reply, but i didn't look at the Dutch translation yet10:09
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Jaffamorning, all10:18
* johnx heads out to work, will hack on the train...10:18
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JaffaHmm. Hildon's confused and showing me the vim icon for X Terminal10:39
RST38hah, you already commented on this thread =)10:39
aquatixJaffa: vim isn't a terminal?10:39
JaffaWell, the vim launcher does start a terminal, but that's beside the point ;-)10:43
JaffaStskeeps: shouldn't the HAM task be in 0.7? (and, having a) got used to; b) starting to like bzr & LP, I see a 0.7 tasks to move to garage & git)10:45
Macerrunning kubuntu instead of osx on my macbook has made me a happy person10:48
MyrttiI just realized I don't have LaTeX and Auctex installed on my laptop...10:48
aquatixMyrtti: that's a miss indeed10:49
Myrttiatleast I do have emacs already10:49
StskeepsJaffa: yes, true, my bad10:53
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JaffaStskeeps: mind if I do some prettification on the Mer page (include wazd's logo, for example)11:01
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StsN800go ahead, you can move the task too11:02
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Macerboston legal is one of hte best shows ever11:03
Macerit's almost as good as west wing11:04
gladiacI prefer Dr. House11:04
Macerknow what.. i know they are putting out new episodes but i really just stopped liking it after they got the new doctors11:05
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JaffaStskeeps: hopefully the frontpage is a bit nicer now. Ideally I'd pull across some of the large friendly buttons from for getting involved & downloading11:26
X-FadeJaffa: At least they are finger friendly ;)11:29
JaffaStskeeps: Once 1.0 is released, I think the main mer page should look more like - logo, large text and easy download at top; detail underneath11:30
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JaffaX-Fade: have we a mediawiki plugin installed which lets us embed RSS feeds?11:46
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JaffaYeah, just looking at that. Would be good to add the #mer RSS to the page11:48
X-FadeJaffa: We don't have it installed, but I can check what it needs..11:48
JaffaX-Fade: cool, ta.11:49
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StslaptopJaffa: saw quim's reply on redistribution?11:54
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JaffaStslaptop: yes, promising :)11:54
Stslaptopindeed, except now we have to make a wishlist :P11:54
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Stslaptopyes, indeed11:56
timelE61iDneary: Ping11:56
X-FadeJaffa: Should work now..11:56
JaffaX-Fade: cool, let me try11:56
timelE61iCould you please not write dates as xx/yy/zzzz unless xx is month?11:56
dnearytimelE61i: pong11:56
X-FadeJaffa: Maybe we need to add some CSS, but it at least seems to display feed items.11:57
dnearytimelE61i: Is that date thing what you wanted to tell me?11:57
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dnearyAlmost everywhere in the world we have dd/mm/yyyy11:57
dnearyAnd Americans are very adaptable11:57
Jaffayyyy-MM-dd is the best, non-confusing, ISO8601-compliant date format IMHO11:57
dnearyThey'll get used to it :)11:57
X-Fadedneary: Use yyyy/mm/dd, so there is no confusion.11:57
Stslaptopyeah, i'm with jaffa on it11:57
dnearyJaffa: Indeed, I will try to use yyyy-mm-dd11:57
X-FadeThat date format sorts nicely too ;)11:58
dnearyor dd MMM yyyy11:58
X-FadeOn the site we try to use yyyy-mm-dd everythere.11:58
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StslaptopJaffa: the question is also if he means technical blockers as well as "things that would make Mer closer to Diablo on the nokia tablets so they don't loose anyhing"11:59
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timelE61ists lOse12:00
StslaptoptimelE61i: fair enough. I haven't had my morning coffee yet :P12:00
* timelE61i looses grammar attack dogs at sts12:00
timelE61isorry. Speaking of Engrish12:00
timelE61iThe 770 shipped w/ maemo blocks12:01
timelE61igame over12:01
timelE61iYou loose12:01
JaffaX-Fade: looks good12:01
timelE61iWhich is a terrible insult12:01
X-FadeJaffa: Great!12:01
timelE61i(to females)12:01
aquatixtimelE61i: it is?12:01
timelE61iAquatix: loose would mean morally loose12:01
timelE61i(sleep w/ anyone)12:02
aquatixwouldn't that need the word `are' in that sentence too?12:02
timelE61inot absolutely12:02
aquatixi don't quite see how that sentence is insulting apart from implying "Loser!"12:02
timelE61iLoose != lose12:03
aquatixah :)12:03
aquatixi think i get your point now ;)12:03
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timelE61iit took me a while to get that fixed too12:03
Stslaptophm, beagleboard + maemo stuff on fosdem12:03
aquatixStslaptop: ooh12:04
timelE61iThat may have been the first one i got fixed...12:04
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timelE61iIt's also stupid to use "you lose" for a tetris like game12:04
aquatixheh, true12:04
timelE61iyet another example of a lack of any review12:04
timelE61i"does this make sense?"12:04
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* timelE61i could easily write a blog dedicated to nit linugistic fluns12:06
timelE61iOne article every weekday12:06
timelE61iFor a year12:06 ;)12:06
Stslaptopi'm sure it'll get on planet maemo12:06
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johnx|z:) ?12:07
aquatixnot sure how well it'll be for timelE61i's career12:07
aquatixhey johnx|z :P12:07
Stslaptopmorning johnx|z12:07
aquatixwe're just smiling friendly at you12:07
timelE61iI would only do it after leaving nokia12:07
johnx|zah :D12:07
timelE61iI like trying to fix things12:08
aquatixtimelE61i: ah :)12:08
aquatixyou're doing a great job imho12:08
timelE61iBut if they don't like it, then ...12:08
Stslaptopjohnx|z: , a must read12:08
johnx|zStslaptop: ok (need to figure out how to use irssi better)12:09
aquatixStslaptop: nice12:10
* timelE61i sighs12:13
timelE61iThis is really bad12:13
timelE61iI read that link and the only part i noticed was "relevant for 3rd parties components"12:14
timelE61ianyone here want to explain to the nonnatives why that's wrong?12:14
johnx|zcant (figure out how to) follow links. whats the title?12:15
Stslaptopjohnx: oh, it's a response to the commmunity firmware stuff12:16
StslaptoptimelE61i: we knew it advance there was issues with 3rd party stuff, not-so-much with nokia software12:16
timelE61isTs: yep, and your wording isn't flawed12:17
johnx|zah. that's about the response i expected12:17
Stslaptopjohnx|z: worst part we have to make a big list now :P12:17
johnx|zits not *too* long :)12:17
* timelE61i wonders if any nonnatives here can see the difference between the quote and sts's note12:17
StslaptoptimelE61i: yeah, we've had the discussion about those12:18
timelE61iis there quicktime support?12:18
johnx|ztimelE61i: i guess n8x0 users of mer will be interested in those but they're largely uninteresting to me...12:18
johnx|zmpeg? mplayer is faster anyways :)12:19
Stslaptoptimeless: only thing on that list that i use is skype, really12:19
timelE61iI'm not sure how mpeg licensing works12:19
Stslaptoptimeless: the question isn't things that -can- be included by users, but things we -need- to provide as part of a firmware image to make it function12:20
Stslaptopmany things can be dl'ed off the net12:20
johnx|zmy interest: wifi firmware, bt firmware (?), bme12:20
timelE61iWhich pieces prevent nokia from letting a random person d/l a random piece of a flash image?12:21
Stslaptopprobably flash and such12:21
StslaptoptimelE61i: but yes, it's always possible to grab pieces from updates repositories..12:22
timelE61iwhat's possible and what's lawful....12:22
Stslaptopyeah :P12:22
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timelE61iAnyway... Do you need anything for camera/fmradio?12:23
Stslaptopfmradio i saw a python api for, so that should be trivial to implement an applet for12:23
johnx|zi think camera support is kernel based and open12:23
timelE61ispeaking of dates12:25
timelE61iCould someone fix pipermail?12:25
* timelE61i can file a bug if necessary12:25
Stslaptopjohnx|z: i think a prioritized table of things could be nice to make12:27
johnx|zok, i can make a text file now and add to wiki later12:28
X-FadetimelE61i: Please do so. I need to create a new template for it soon and then I can take that issue at the same time.12:28
JaffaAgreed. Things like battery charging, and any other low-level drivers/blobs12:28
johnx|zdoes bt need firmware of any type?12:28
Stslaptopjohnx: i -think- so on 77012:28
Stslaptopwe might as well get 770 in the fold by now12:28
JaffatimelE61i: Did "you lose" in blocks ever get changed from "you loose" - which was even worse12:28
johnx|zyes. definitely12:30
* Jaffa takes the little 'uns to Gym Club12:30
johnx|zguess we should get dsme and its modules just to be complete...12:30
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timelE61ijAffa iirc i finally managed to get it fixed12:30
timelE61ii can't remember for when12:31
timelE61ithe funny part there...12:31
timelE61iThe "text" was painted onto an unlocalized picture12:32
timelE61iSo it didn't matter what language you spoke12:32
timelE61iWe always insulted your sister in English12:32
timelE61i(?) This system has 226 unsent core files. Send for analysis?12:33
timelE61ihrm, i can't seem to actually *play* maemo blocks12:34
* timelE61i taps continue12:34
johnx|zdoes gps need anything special? what about agps?12:34
timelE61iagps probably needs a service12:35
Stslaptopjohnx|z: think we can prioritize them as "needed as part of firmware image" "would be useful as part of firmware image" "could be useful to modify packaging, repackage and possible to download if providing MAC address"12:35
Stslaptopor something12:35
johnx|zStslaptop: ok. pretty much how i organized it12:35
Stslaptopas in, the extreme example of flash - people can -possibly- download this from a nokia repository (i know this is a pipe dream)12:36
johnx|ztimelE61i: i mean anything non-free on the device12:36
timelE61iCan someone run maemo blobks and use "ps" to find out what processes it includes12:36
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aquatixtimelE61i: sec12:37
Stslaptopi really wonder about updates repository, i mean, why some random password instead of simply providing a negotiating step with EULA and MAC address provide? :P12:37
* timelE61i sees 2 maemoblocks_startups and nothing else12:37
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aquatixtimelE61i: yeah, that :/12:38
Woolymorning all12:38
johnx|zhi Wooly12:38
timelE61iaquatix: try this12:38
aquatix /usr/bin/maemoblocks_startup /usr/share/maemoblocks/m12:38
Woolythis may be a silly question, but why when I run inside scratchbox, does the simulated desktop look completely different from my actual n810 desktop12:39
timelE61iStart game; hardware home; tap game; change block speed to 20; Tap continue a dozen times12:39
johnx|zWooly: yes :)12:39
Woolyi was just wondering why that was12:39
timelE61iWooly: depends onwhat you've installed12:39
StslaptopWooly: on the other hand most of your SDK is open source12:39
timelE61iAnd on whether your screen res and colordepth are right12:39
johnx|zWooly: its mostly because of things not included for various reasons12:40
Stslaptopwhich is not something you can say for your average android SDK :P12:40
Woolyahh ok :) thanks12:40
timelE61iyou can make your device more closely match the sdk by removing packages12:40
timelE61iOr you could transplant them if the sdk is arm12:41
aquatixtimelE61i: "Game not started yet"?12:41
Woolythe sdk is arm yes12:41
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timelE61idid you skip a step?12:41
Woolyso I could transfer packages from my N810 to my SDK?12:41
timelE61iFor me i'm at game paused12:41
timelE61iWooly: you'd have to "make" such packages12:42
aquatixtimelE61i: well, i had to first start it12:42
Woolyright. That's maybe something I can do later on12:42
Woolycheers :)12:42
Stslaptopif it wasn't for the fact h-d will probably be replaced, Nokia should take a long hard look at hildon-theme-liberty12:42
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Stslaptopas part of SDK12:43
timelE61ithe sdk people are fairly reasonable12:43
lcukStslaptop, (or more likely johnx) you want mer to work on  various platforms, whats the realistic lower limit for screen resolution (effects which of the phone devices to look towards)12:43
timelE61italk to them early and often12:43
Stslaptoplcuk: not sure12:43
timelE61i320x240 is the (basement) floor12:44
Stslaptoplcuk: and the problem is also how many applications will look okay at that resolution :P12:44
lcuktimelE61i, depends on wha UI elements are required12:44
Stslaptopwe can probably solve hildon-desktop in one or the other, but, apps are more difficult12:44
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lcukipod touch would be nice cheap hardware to get mer onto :)12:45
Stslaptopmm, yeah, but their linux support isn't that good yet is it12:45
timelE61iSome day12:46
lcukwell johnx is already thinking lower than 800*480 res, its just to keep an eye on really12:46
aquatixipod touch has really low res12:46
timelE61iOh, i found my ipod touch12:46
aquatixonly 320x480 :)12:46
* lcuk personally wants 1024*768 mer :)12:46
aquatixlcuk: ooh :)12:47
timelE61iIs that EEE or beagle?12:47
lcukaquatix, at least as far as liqbase goes, thats not a problem12:47
lcukneither, lenovo x41 tabletpc12:47
aquatixStslaptop: ha12:47
lcukrunning at 800mhz powersave mode :)12:48
lcukoooooh Stslaptop12:48
lcukand this is why mer is good :)12:48
lcuki would like to get comfortable and relaxed with one single strong sane distro12:48
Stslaptoplcuk: thats early x86 btw12:49
lcukyeah i know12:49
lcukive seen it before, just being nice ;)12:49
StslaptoptimelE61i: as in, a hack :P12:49
Stslaptopi've had mer on x86 since day one since i work with mer as part of my work12:49
* timelE61i grew up w/ a 386sx 33 w/ a turbo button12:49
Stslaptopas providing a foundation for pervasive healthcare prototypes12:50
timelE61i(for games that needed 16)12:50
timelE61iEww, you're trying to profit from the work we do12:50
StslaptoptimelE61i: research/university work12:51
lcukeverybody needs motivation12:51
aquatixtimelE61i: ooh, we had a 33MHz 386 too12:51
aquatixonly dx12:51
aquatixrather fast12:51
StslaptoptimelE61i: and the non-healthcare parts will be open source, so12:51
lcuktimelE61i, dont you profit by being employed by nokia?12:52
timelE61ii consider that recompense for anguish :)12:52
lcukmotivation is important, linux provides a perfect platform for many projects - as long as sts says it remains open then we all win12:53
timelE61ioH, i was only poking fun. Of course it's ok12:54
timelE61iIt just seemed like the natural open source response :)12:54
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timelE61ioK, i can't download that picture12:57
timelE61iStuck @40pct12:57
timelE61iOk now that's great12:57
timelE61iMy phone's browser just gave me a dialog:12:57
timelE61iAlready downloading   [green checkmark]12:58
timelE61ianyone here able to translate that dialog into English? :@12:58
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pupnikalready = already13:00
pupnikdownloading = downloading13:00
timelE61iAlready downloading  <what>?13:01
timelE61iAnd <why do i care>?13:01
timelE61iAnd <why should i be happy (green)>?13:02
aquatixjust shut up and swallow the message ;)13:03
aquatix(and try again)13:03
aquatixwell, i think it assumes you know what you just clicked13:03
aquatixso if you then get "Already downloading", you know13:04
aquatixmaybe the checkmark means it's done already even?13:04
timelE61iI asked it to quit13:05
timelE61iSo none of this makes sense :)13:05
timelE61ibesides downloading != downloaded13:05
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lcuktimelE61i, you are on a mission regarding translation information messages.  have you considered you are just hitting a senility wall :D13:11
lcuk(i actually think its really important as well, stupid messages rile me as well)13:11
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timelE61iit's a very wide wall13:12
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lcukyeah, its an artform and never going to be perfect13:14
lcuki would like to add a translate now button to message boxes :)  for users/beta testers to submit translations of any message within an app13:14
timelE61iI'm not asking for perfect13:14
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lcuk(same for other things like bugreports/usability/documentation/examples and stuff but thats another issue)13:15
timelE61iHow about something a 3rd grader wouldn't be embarassed by?13:15
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lcukyeah, but as you said last night, usually because you dont have people from all cultures using the app its translated as realistically as it can be13:15
lcukie.  i will write apps and all my messages will be written in _NORTHERN dialect, theres no way people will  understand them13:16
timelE61ithat's a polite paraphrase13:16
lcuk:) yes i translated it for you13:16
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GeneralAntillesUPS, apparently, figured out they were shipping it to the wrong address.13:28
GeneralAntillesNow, hopefully it makes it here early enough to get on the truck.13:28
GeneralAntillesSay hello to wiki spam.13:34
GeneralAntillesStslaptop, you're only digging yourself deeper. :D13:34
StslaptopGeneralAntilles: sorry :) the blueprint was in dire need of getting split up13:36
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GeneralAntillesStslaptop, drop the banner on is not Nokia13:37
StslaptopGeneralAntilles, Jaffa's design, and what banner? :P13:37
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GeneralAntillesAbout Mer not being a Nokia project.13:37
Stslaptopfair enough13:37
GeneralAntillesNokia stuff is clearly marked on maemo.org13:37
GeneralAntillesWe shouldn't be marking our own stuff in our own domain. ;)13:38
Stslaptopwe now have rss reader plugin in wiki if you want to make activity logs in sprints easier, it seems :)13:38
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GeneralAntillesStslaptop, should I add my name to that list? :P13:40
GeneralAntilles"Public relations, Cheerleader"13:40
Stslaptopsure, send me an e-mail like it says on Mer/Sprints, and i'll add you :P13:41
Stslaptopit's just to keep track of people really13:41
lcukStslaptop, have you got a privacy policy about the use of my email address?13:42
GeneralAntilleslcuk, every spambot he can find.13:42
Stslaptoplcuk: "it's not ending up on the public page"13:42
lcukand GeneralAntilles do you actually have pompoms13:42
Stslaptopexcept if you need a jaiku invite13:42
* lcuk has u on jaiku already a13:42
lcukGeneralAntilles, awww so will be picked up and spammed? :(13:43
lcuki should be very careful not to put on anything public13:43
woglindehi lcuk13:44
GeneralAntilleslcuk, nah, but I could source some fairly quickly if need be. :P13:44
lcukhiya woglinde13:44
GeneralAntillesStslaptop, OK, I'm going to justify the documentation part right now. ;)13:44
lcukGeneralAntilles, i already get spam in hundreds per day - sometimes i end up with thousands13:45
* lcuk once got joe jobbed and watched as 25000 mails came in as someone attempted to send mails to most people at hotmail and got rejected :'(13:45
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Khertan_n810Hello !13:55
woglindehi khertan13:55
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Khertan_n810someone use mnotes here ?13:57
StslaptopKhertan_n810: did you see my post that was directly directed to you? :>13:57
Khertan_n810which one ,13:57
Khertan_n810it s seems not13:58
Stslaptopdamnit, my server is down13:58
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Khertan_n810where to ?13:58
Stslaptopsec :)13:58
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Stslaptop , but it has an image of and in it ;)13:59
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Khertan_n810Hey !14:02
Khertan_n810NICE !14:02
Khertan_n810python is now available so !14:02
Khertan_n810hildon binding too !14:02
Khertan_n810thx ...14:02
Stslaptophehe, yes14:02
Stslaptoppython-gtk2, python-hildon, python-osso, python-conic, python-hildondesktop14:03
Khertan_n810i ll try to found some time saturday to have a second boot with me on my nit14:03
Stslaptopthere's a weird bug but i think it has to deal with it not being 800x48014:04
Stslaptop(maybe in hildon desktop)14:04
Khertan_n810if i said that mnotes dev version sync with google docs are you interested ... or do you really need sync with evernotes ?14:05
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Stslaptopgoogle docs or evernotes is good14:05
Stslaptopevernotes is good because a lot of students use it14:05
Stslaptopand if they can use the tablets to add notes or view notes on the go, that would help a lot of people to buy tablets14:05
Khertan_n810there is no rendering it s text only for the moment until python binding for webkit willbe available14:05
Khertan_n810nod ?14:06
Stslaptopyeah, that could be difficult14:06
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Stslaptopfor Mer it might be easier as we have all python bindings14:07
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Khertan_n810i look forwebkit as gtkhml2 doesnt permit to edit14:09
Khertan_n810gtkhtml3 don t have binding and isn t available on nit14:10
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Khertan_n810i don t know any other text widget which can render html and edit it14:11
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Khertan_n810and my try with fckeditor in gtkhtml2 was a failure14:12
Khertan_n810to slow to be usefull14:12
StslaptopJaffa: hah :P14:12
lcukKhertan_n810, have you considered something like richtext - ie a bit less complex than full html14:12
lcukwith import export from/to14:12
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GeneralAntillesew yourself, Jaffa.14:12
lcukor are you wanting to do full palm pre type editing/config14:13
aquatixJaffa: ew!14:13
aquatixerm, wb!14:13
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Khertan_n810lcuk: yep but the problem is to avoid to break the document layout14:14
Khertan_n810and rtf of TextView doesn t help14:14
lcukhow much formatting are you expecting though?  fonts colors bold italics etc, or full on super duper formatting with subpixel accuracy14:15
lcukand special html features (like tables and stuff)14:16
aquatixand style sheets14:17
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lcukand macros14:18
lcukmaybe embedded flash content14:18
lcukand a save as "Microsoft word" format :D14:18
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aquatixand export to pdf with interactive forms14:19
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lcukit needs an assistant14:20
lcuk"it looks like you are touching my screen :: BUY A FRIKKING KEYBOARD"14:20
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Khertan_at_worksorry n810 reboot suddently14:20
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lcukkhertan, has this started since you added pictures to mnotes - its notoriously unstable14:21
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lcukaquatix, what other features does it need then?14:24
Khertan_at_workmnotes ? unstable ?14:24
Khertan_at_worknot possible14:24
Khertan_at_worklcuk: this start before ...14:24
Khertan_at_workand i'm still doesn't understand why14:25
lcukvery defensive - i can get it doing really weird stuff and it gets confused easily14:25
aquatixlcuk: hmmm, maybe something with saving in the Cloud or something14:25
lcukbut as for the camera it locks up often when playing14:25
lcukthats not specifically mnotes - the camera at full res crashes every app its used in14:25
aquatixlcuk: nah, that's because you have liqbase running in the background ;)14:25
aquatixhm, that's because of the driver or something?14:26
lcukliqbase doesnt run inthe background :P14:26
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lcukyeah aquatix, it seems to consume too much bandwidth over the little bus and stumbles more often than everything14:26
lcuki thought id got past it myself in liqbase by running at only 8fps, but i managed to lock it enough to say bollocks to it and lowered the res again14:27
* aquatix doesn't use it much14:27
aquatixfront-faced camera isn't that useful for me14:27
lcuki was using it as a blit test for the new liqbase14:27
lcuki had various copies of the camera image being stretchblitted all over hte shop14:27
pupnik_someone should manufacture a bluetooth button camera14:27
Khertan_at_worklcuk> you have bugs ? when playing with cam ?14:27
Khertan_at_worki mean with mnotes ?14:28
Khertan_at_workwhich version ?14:28
lcukno khertan i dont have bugs when playiong with the cam, but at its full resolution the entire machine freezes and gets locked up - thats the same using camera or liqbase or mnotes14:28
aquatixpupnik_: you mean a camera with a small memory which bluetooths its pictures to a main device?14:28
Khertan_at_workah ! you mean the cam :)14:28
aquatix(reminds me of the cam you could buy with the old Nokia communicator)14:29
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Khertan_at_workyep i see that also that at fullres ... it clearly freeze the device14:29
lcukpupnik_, i asked this question to craves1 about his extended sdcard a+ bigger battery cover14:29
pupnik_yeah aquatix14:29
Khertan_at_workthis is why i use 320 wide sized resolution14:29
lcukKhertan_at_work, drop resolution to 320*200 (maybe have it as option) and see for yourself how much more stable and smooth the machine is14:29
aquatixpupnik_: there are already cams with wifi to do so even14:29
lcukahhh you already do..14:30
aquatixpupnik_: and ones doing bt14:30
lcukthen why it still freezes i dunno...14:30
pupnik_where which14:30
Khertan_at_worki got no freeze at 320*200 only at 640*48014:30
lcukpupnik_, the idea i had was to use the usb/serial port actually in the battery compartment to get data in14:30
Khertan_at_workand the preview is smooth14:30
Khertan_at_worksurely :)14:31
pupnik_which question did you ask lcuk ?14:31
lcuk"can you put a camera in there as well"14:31
Khertan_at_workbut you made the mistake before ... i copy a part of your previous comment14:31
Khertan_at_work"<lcuk> Khertan_at_work, drop resolution to 320*200"14:31
lcukheh lol :$14:31
lcukKhertan_at_work, how many fps do you run camera in?14:32
lcuki ofund 15 to be reasonable - the lower the FPS the better the low light handling and less snowy it is14:33
lcuk8 fps lets me have kinda smooth images at night in low light14:33
lcuk25fps is just snow14:34
Khertan_at_worklcuk> at this time at 25fps14:34
Khertan_at_workbut i ll lower it to 1514:34
Khertan_at_workwhen i ll found how to set it to 15 :)14:34
lcukseems reasonable, less overall strain and slightly higher picture quality :)14:34
lcukheh, its part of your gstreamer init code14:34
Khertan_at_workyep ... but when i code i don't have the gstreamer doc with me14:35
lcukyeah, its one of the params around where you set normal resolution14:36
lcuki bet you wouldnt be able to get gstreamer to filter the color layers would you - in liqbase I lower the Chroma channels by half to reduce horrible blinding glaring multicolored snow14:37
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lcukthe gray channel is normally pretty clean14:38
Khertan_at_workhum ... it s a good idea ...14:38
Stslaptopwb johnx14:39
* johnx|z kills time at work14:39
lcukanyway, must dash again14:40
lcukjohnx, you start skiving as i finish :P14:41
johnx|zI'm off the clock :P14:41
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lcukim on dinner :P14:41
johnx|zI'll be on donuts soon unless someone gives me somethin to do14:42
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JaffaBagsy oneza14:42
JaffaI've only got an egg custard14:43
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johnx|zI've got a mister donuts next store :D it's a bad habit but I guess it's cheaper than smoking ...14:43
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GeneralAntillesUngh donuts14:44
GeneralAntillesThere's a Krispy Kreme just up the street.14:44
AndrewFBlackDon't talk about Donuts making me hungry14:44
johnx|zGeneralAntilles: these are a little different than crispy creme...i dunno. crispy cream is a little too heavy for me :/14:44
JaffaWe had one open next to the office and now they're the traditional birthday cakes ppl buy. Most of them far too sugary14:45
* johnx|z must be a heretic14:45
GeneralAntillesThey are heavy14:45
GeneralAntillesBut damn good.14:45
johnx|zheh...there are a couple here too. Last time I saw one there was a line all the way around the corner of thebuilding O_o14:46
GeneralAntillesI wish I had some bread for french toast.14:47
Stslaptopmm, cheese14:47
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johnx|zha! i gave up on finding cheese ...14:47
GeneralAntillesNo cheese in Japan?14:48
johnx|zno good cheese. also: insane prices14:48
JaffaAny proper cheese in America?!14:49
Stslaptopjohnx|z: not even at McD and burger king? :(14:49
GeneralAntillesThe grocery store has a whole section of fine cheese.14:49
johnx|zJaffa: US cheese makes cheese in Japan look pretty sad14:49
GeneralAntillesI usually just buy extra sharp cheddar, though.14:49
Khertan_at_workwhat call you french toast ?14:49
johnx|zGeneralAntilles: meh. I have to go up to costco and buy a brick unless i want to spend $10 at an import store for like 2oz14:50
StslaptopKhertan_at_work: white board, cheese, ham, maybe14:50
Khertan_at_worki ask because at a dinner at the summit at berlin i discover that you call fries : french fries :)14:50
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StslaptopKhertan_at_work: better than "freedom fries"14:50
JaffaKhertan_at_work: It's called "egg bread" (roughly) in the UK - I think14:50
Khertan_at_workfries isn't .fr but .be14:50
johnx|zStslaptop: O_o that's french toast in DK?14:51
JaffaAlthough Stskeeps os describing a croque monsieur14:51
Stslaptopjohnx: mm. at least, that's how we call toast in .dk :P14:51
Stslaptopand then friedn icely14:51
Jaffammm, croque14:51
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JaffaThat's definitely a croque monsieur14:51
AndrewFBlackyeah well look at what we call chinese food in the US its no where near chinese14:51
Khertan_at_workyep so a croque monsieur14:51
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johnx|zStslaptop: just egg batter and french bread in the US. maybe some cinamon14:52
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GeneralAntillesand syrup!14:52
GeneralAntillesI like a bit of ground sugar, too.14:52
GeneralAntillesMaybe some fresh fruit.14:52
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johnx|zGeneralAntilles: bah. i'd kill a man to get to an IHOP...14:53
JaffaThe next summit should be in Perpignan. Somewhere close to Toulouse, perhaps14:53
GeneralAntillesI'm sad Village Inn is closing14:53
Stslaptop <- oh boy14:53
GeneralAntillesThey have great pies.14:53
johnx|zStslaptop: title?14:54
Stslaptopjohnx: ubuntu netbook edition14:54
Stslaptopon eee, "easy peasy linux"14:54
Stslaptopfor 800x48014:54
Khertan_at_workJaffa : oh no please not at Perpignan14:55
* Jaffa uses bits from Ubuntu Netbook Remix on Jaffa Jr's ThinkPad (nice wazd-like task switcher, auto maximising)14:55
JaffaKhertan_at_work: I'm not a big fan of Paris, though doing the !touristy thing could help14:55
Khertan_at_worknot a big fan of paris ... but i hate perpignan14:56
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Khertan_at_workand it ll be difficult to have a direct travel14:56
JaffaBTW, that desktop is rheavy Clutter and really crawls on an unaccelerated ThinkPad14:56
Khertan_at_workso it could be expensive14:56
StslaptopJaffa: ick :P14:56
JaffaKhertan_at_work: true. France'd be good tho'14:57
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lcukjaffa, it crawls on my x41 as well, even at 1.6ghz14:58
JaffaKhertan_at_work: nice & warm in the south14:58
lcukand thats technically got accel14:58
Khertan_at_worki prefer seeing a summit at Grenoble, or Lyon, Strasbourg14:58
Stslaptopthe netherlands wouldn't be bad either14:58
Khertan_at_workjaffa> nice ... not really ... warn ... or raining ... i prefer the north of france ...14:59
Khertan_at_workas i prefer cold :)14:59
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Khertan_at_workReims could be great too14:59
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* Jaffa ponders the clutter no-animation mode; could allow API-using apps from Fremantle in Mer (and that launcher on a "low" ThinkPad)14:59
GeneralAntillesBut I want to see all of your get your laptops confiscated by the TSA. :(14:59
Khertan_at_workfinland could be a good choice too15:00
Khertan_at_workthe TSA ?15:00
StslaptopGeneralAntilles: did they introduce habeas corpus back again yet btw?15:00
GeneralAntillesStslaptop, pff.15:00
JaffaKhertan_at_work: I grew up in Manchester - anywhere which is warm or has cool storms feels like holiday :)15:00
lcukjaffa, even the base examples (the spinning OH hands) did not work smoothly - that was 6 textures being scaled and rotated15:01
* Jaffa loved being able to watch the inauguration. Paternity leave's great15:01
Jaffalcuk: you reckon the code's just crap?15:01
lcukithe problem is, i dont see how - it goes to lower level ogl15:01
Khertan_at_workJaffa> u grew up in the south of the France, anywhere warm remember me that i hate when temp is more than 20°C15:01
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AndrewFBlackbrb changing over to my linux partition15:02
JaffaKhertan_at_work: heh :)15:02
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* GeneralAntilles would prefer warm.15:02
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lcukjaffa, it was shockingly poor performance wise and  certianly not what i expected to see15:02
lcukespecially considering its retained model rendering15:03
lcukor so i recall15:03
lcuk(might be wrong)15:03
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lcukim sure that it scales quite well - ie it wont get much worse as you add more stuff) but i expected a ground level core simple usage to be flawless at least on desktop/laptop and not embedded system15:04
Jaffatigert's been quiet recently. Should get his thoughts on wazd's mer mockups15:05
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lcukwhats tigert working on?15:06
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Stslaptoplcuk: made for example the plankton theme15:06
lcuki see now, google helps15:06
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andrewfblackok stupid question is something wrong with my Linux install or something becuase some times I wont be touching the mouse or keyboard and computer will change the active desktop15:11
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JaffaObviously still at Nokia, according to that IP15:11
StslaptopJaffa, he spoke the other day, so not that quiet :)15:11
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* lcuk doesnt see him in chan15:12
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thopiekarhi Jaffa15:15
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Jaffalcuk: his leaving prompted my statement15:16
Jaffahi thopiekar15:16
* Jaffa goes fireplace shopping and a (hopefully brief) visit to Ikea15:17
lcuki just saw15:18
lcuklol jaffa, the missus never sees ikea visit as brief15:18
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andrewfblackHey trying to install maemo sdk but I"m getting this error Scratchbox login executable... no15:31
andrewfblackE: Scratchbox login found but not executable by user.15:31
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herzidoes maemo provide expander images I can use in my treeview? diablo doesn't show the triangles that gtk displays within gnome; now I need a replacement for this15:54
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Khertan_at_worknice split15:59
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vaicool, QT Designer crashed on me16:23
woglindewhich version?16:23
vai20080806 snapshot16:23
woglindeis this before after the rewrite16:26
woglindecan remeber excatly16:26
vaiI was connecting a signal :)16:28
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Stslaptopoh, nice, another pre-alpha SDK coming up16:29
timelessoh, swift should be reachable16:30
timelessif i could get onto the intranet16:30
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vaiwhen you get an update once a week, it's about normal ;-)16:31
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* timeless sings a good manager who can find (to the tune of Eshet Chayil)16:38
GeneralAntillesStslaptop, I don't get back credit for my previous participation, eh? ;) :P16:43
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Sorry, no MER karma implemented yet ;)16:45
johnxwoo! new SDK!16:45
johnxGeneralAntilles, no credit. you gotta pay full price just like all the rest :P16:46
GeneralAntillesMedical Education Resources? :P16:46
GeneralAntillesMars Exploration Rover?16:46
Stslaptopnew SDK now?16:46
X-FadeHmm the latter one can also be a great mascot :)16:47
johnxStslaptop, huh? nah, was just reacting to you :P16:47
Stslaptopjohnx: ah, good, i was going into a heart attack16:47
GeneralAntillesMer on MER16:47
johnxX-Fade, one of the Mars rovers at the bottom of the ocean would make a nice background...16:47
johnxGeneralAntilles, mer on MER for MER?16:47
StslaptopGeneralAntilles: the mars rovers sure are sturdy.16:47
X-Fadejohnx: ===> wazd :)16:47
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, we've figured out your dirty little secret.16:48
johnxStslaptop, what kind of screen res do they have? (sorry about the heart attack! O_o)16:48
GeneralAntillesX-Fade == wazd16:48
Stslaptopjohnx: not sure16:48
GeneralAntillesjohnx, I'm more worried about the 68k. :P16:48
X-FadeI wish I was that good in design....16:48
* Myrtti considers fiddling around with the wiki16:49
johnxGeneralAntilles, debian runs on it...16:49
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X-FadeIdea: Would it make sense to have a community run application store?16:50
GeneralAntillesGuess it's not 68k16:50
GeneralAntillesThat's the Space Shuttle16:50
StslaptopX-Fade: i have thought about it occasionally16:50
Stslaptopbut payment gateways might be difficult :)16:50
Myrttiis there a Meta namespace in the wiki for discussion about the usage of it and possible problems?16:50
GeneralAntillesHandling money is going to be unfun.16:50
X-FadeTechnical and organisational difficulties aside, would it make sense.16:50
johnxugh, payment stuff would be a nightmare16:50
Myrttilike in Wikipedia there's Wikipedia:Common problems etc.16:50
GeneralAntillesWas the only one.16:51
Stslaptopjohnx: i was thinking paypal16:51
X-FadeDo you think people are prepared to pay for applications on the tablets?16:51
MyrttiI was just thinking that if I make a template warning about the possible formatting problems of the pages imported from html, I don't want that to get too cluttered16:51
X-FadeAs Linux means free (no cost) to most people ;)16:52
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, I think it depends a lot on the applications.16:52
Myrttiso if I add a link to [[Meta:Problems of the wiki pages imported from html generated by foobar]] or whatever...16:52
johnxX-Fade, maybe a thin class of app. I could see paying for games16:52
GeneralAntillesThere are a lot of tablet, users, too.16:52
GeneralAntillesMost of them aren't Linux savvy individuals.16:52
GeneralAntillesand are used to paying for stuff.16:52
X-FadeIt can draw in developers who make decent apps, if they can create some kind of revenue?16:52
johnxand there will be some commercial games for the pandora (honestly!)16:52
glasswhat you count as commercial?16:53
glassshareware is technically commercial16:53
johnxglass, closed source, costs money16:53
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, I think it has potential16:53
StslaptopX-Fade: there was no promise of everything being free as in beer when people got the tablets :P16:53
Myrttiam I making any sense?16:53
GeneralAntillesBut, honestly, I think it's something that Nokia's better equipped to implement.16:53
GeneralAntillesMyrtti, it sounds fine to me.16:53
X-FadeStslaptop: No, but general public assumes it?16:53
StslaptopX-Fade: which is why it is difficult to make money on OSS and such :P16:54
GeneralAntillesMyrtti, I'm unfamiliar with some of the higher-level issues of wiki management, so you're almost certainly the most qualified person to decide in the room. ;)16:54
Myrttiof course, I'd still have to ask more people about their opinion, but that's how I'd do it with wikipedia16:54
johnxX-Fade, they do...but PDAs are a different environment than desktop linux. Lots of people coming from other systems assume lots of things that don't line up with reality :)16:54
X-FadeI think it is a topic we need to discuss. What if the next tablet sells 10M units or..16:54
X-FadeAt some point your potential market is there..16:54
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, I could see us pushing something with Nokia.16:55
GeneralAntillesand maybe if it didn't get any traction, THEN setting out on our own.16:55
GeneralAntillesBut I don't think we have the resources to handle it ourselves.16:55
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Or we can preempt it, by creating something ourselves.16:55
X-FadeOr at least designing ourselves..16:55
GeneralAntillesNokia's the one that's gonna be able to attract commercial interests.16:55
X-FadeLet's say we can get organized,the payment setup and have resources.16:56
GeneralAntillesHandling money is something that puts me on edge.16:56
X-FadeI want to find out the benefits first, not looking at the problems at the moment ;)16:56
johnxI'd have to get paid to risk handling money...16:57
X-FadeBenefits for our community, our platform.16:57
johnxbenefit: gaps get filled, more serious games show up,16:57
johnxI'd also love to see a bounty system as long as we're going to the trouble of handling money16:58
GeneralAntillesMore developers16:58
GeneralAntillesMore applications16:58
GeneralAntillesPerhaps better applications16:58
johnxI think that if people saw real bounties they actually had some hope of collecting on (not loose forum promises) they might be motivated16:58
johnxand Nokia could sponsor bounties without putting their legal ass on the line16:59
johnxas could community members16:59
X-FadeLet's say there is a legal entity, who can deal with the money and distribute it correctly.16:59
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X-FadeHow would we deliver the goods to the user?17:00
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johnxvery good question. .deb with a serial key needed?17:00
GeneralAntillesDoes such a thing exist?17:01
X-Fadejohnx: We have no security framework in the platform.17:01
johnxGeneralAntilles, not on install :P on run17:01
X-FadeSo one can copy the binary as much as one wants..17:01
X-FadeAnd all other options lead to DRM ;)17:01
johnxand I only ever saw one piece of DRM I didn't hate: Steam17:02
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X-FadeIt would take a lot to get that accepted by the community, I guess.17:03
johnxSteam? probably lots of steam users already17:03
johnxthey already have to be online (more or less) to install apps17:03
X-FadeBut on the other hand, we see wayfinder struggeling with security too. They lock to mac address etc..17:03
X-FadeNot really a great solution..17:04
johnxI guess the question is "If people are developing for money, on average how much confidence do they need that people aren't just pirating their apps?"17:04
johnxThere's a balance to be struck between "no piracy" and "convenience"17:04
X-Fadejohnx: Very true.17:04
johnxThe guys at Valve are so far the only ones who seem to "have it right" IMNSHO17:05
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X-FadePart of that can be solved by reasonal pricing.. $1 for a simple app for example.17:05
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X-FadeIt is probably easier for most people to buy it at that point than to pirate it..17:06
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johnxyeah. The other thing is that if the pirated version is more flexible than the pay version it doesn't help things17:06
johnx(ex: ebooks, drm'ed music, software tied to one machine)17:07
wazd_n800lo comrads)17:07
X-FadeYes, but all 'locking down' will impose such problems..17:07
johnxhonestly, I'm not getting money from Valve, but if we're really planning to do this from the ground up we'd be hard pressed to find a better role-model than steam...17:09
johnxwazd_n800, hey :)17:09
* Myrtti yawns17:09
X-Fadejohnx: Well even steam has online activation etc, right?17:09
johnxyeah, once, when you purchase the app17:10
johnxyou need to purchase online anyways, sooo17:10
X-Fadejohnx: So it locks to a certain device too?17:10
johnxX-Fade, no17:10
wazd_n800Steam is very nice thing if everything is done legaly)17:10
johnxlocks to a certain account17:10
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X-FadeAh, well that can be a solution too.17:11
X-FadeBut things like that need frameworks inside the device ;)17:11
johnxX-Fade, so let's say I drop by your place for a LAN party, sit down at your spare desktop and pull down data files for HL2 and CS :)17:11
johnxof course whenever you're downloading to a new machine it needs to authenticate17:12
johnxit also wants to authenticate once every couple weeks (but this is a value that can be tweaked if we're reimplementing)17:12
X-FadeWell, implementing nothing right now ;)17:13
X-FadeBut want to consider the whole picture..17:13
johnxright :)17:13
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johnxbut I mean "If we decide to use DRM, someone will have to implement it somehow, so we might as well do it right." :)17:13
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X-FadeIt would be a pretty enormous endeavor :)17:14
johnxwell, yes17:14
wazd_n800I've realized that Apple's App Store is a ripped off X-Box Live)17:15
johnxwhich was my other point about "would making it really secure vastly improve the number of people willing to use it?"17:15
GeneralAntillesI'd be interested to talk to the people who might be willing to sell.17:15
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johnxpossibly questionaires, polls, the whole 9 yards17:15
GeneralAntillesRST38h might have some input.17:16
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johnxand for that 'contacting developers' bit we definitely want that coming from someone@maemo.org17:16
wazd_n800Are you discussing Mer Store?)17:16
X-FadeBut would the benefits outweigh the probems we would face in implementing this..17:17
X-FadeEven if we do it together with Nokia or another partner..17:17
GeneralAntillesAt this point, I doubt it.17:17
X-FadeIs an App store vital for a platform?17:18
johnxerrr...maybe? at most I bet you'll see a couple games, a couple emulators and maybe if the planets align a nice PIM or Office suite17:18
GeneralAntillesWe don't have the volume or hype to generate the interest Apple does.17:18
GeneralAntillesand I don't think the existing interest in the community is large enough.17:18
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: That why I said, lets say the next tablet sells 25M units ;)17:18
johnxX-Fade, for some platforms, I'd say yes. Different devs, develop for different platforms for different reasons17:18
X-FadeWe need to think ahead.17:18
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, hey, you made it bigger. :P17:18
* GeneralAntilles is almost out of Juicy Fruit. :(17:18
X-FadeWell any fictional big number will do for now :)17:19
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GeneralAntillesWell, push it to -community.17:19
GeneralAntillesSee what Peter, Quim and Jussi have to say about it.17:19
johnxhmm, we should talk to hancom. :)17:19
X-FadeIf you look at the Nokia phone sales, they laugh at iphone numbers for example.17:19
GeneralAntillesIs there a Symbian store?17:20
X-FadeIt can happen with these tablets too.17:20
X-FadeYou never know ;)17:20
johnxI'm thinking we'll magically see more commercial devs with Qt17:20
johnxI just have that feeling17:20
wazd_n800x-fade: not fair to compair 1 device and zillion)17:20
johnxbut the *bounty* idea, I really like17:20
lcukis this subsidised development for functionality or user apps?17:20
GeneralAntillesThe Qt ecosystem between S60 and Harmattan should be veeery interesting.17:20
X-Fadewazd_n800: No, but I mean.. we need to think big ;)17:21
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GeneralAntilleslcuk, no the bounty system is the one where we put money out on your head. :P17:21
wazd_n800the funniest thing bout app store is that there is 0.1% of really useful apps17:21
X-FadeAnd we need to prepare for growth and set out own goals..17:21
johnxlcuk, if I had my ways it would be bounties for pretty much anything as long as it passes basic sanity checks17:21
GeneralAntillesWe're gonna get a bunch of lighters and beer pong games.17:21
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Well, if a developer can earn a living that way..17:22
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johnxGeneralAntilles, lots of commercial devs are happier with Qt than GTK. even without serious numbers there was a surprising commercial interest in the zaurus17:22
X-FadeThat would mean that we would get really cool applications too.17:22
lcukgiven a good enough framework to allow semi developers to create user widgets that can be sold cheaply would be perfect17:22
wazd_n800and 500 sudoku's)17:22
ian_brasildid you see the iphone rifle scope which buzzes for a head shot..that is cool17:22
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lcukwhat would be nice would be to allow those same users to take those same widgets (or recompiles thereof) and use them on desktop as well17:24
X-FadeEven if those apps are silly. I see them installed on a lot of devices around me. So there is a market for them.17:24
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lcuksilly apps == a good sane infrastructure and framework17:24
X-FadeQuestion is: Do we want to facilitate that market?17:24
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wazd_n800Why do you want to involve money into open-source world?)17:25
lcukoh yesssssssss i want quick simple weekend projects produced at a frightening rate17:25
X-Fadewazd_n800: Do you eat?17:25
lcukwazd, if the customer sees value they will pay17:25
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X-Fadewazd_n800: People need money, even if the develop oss software..17:25
johnxwazd_n800, open source is all about subverting money into getting better software for everyone :)17:25
lcukopen source isnt part of the equation cos they dont understand the language anyway17:25
lcukit doesnt actually matter to most users and those which are interested can use the source to make their own media player/soduku17:26
X-FadeAnd who says that you can't sell your opensource application? :)17:26
wazd_n800x-fade: I have a work (regulary)17:26
johnxopen source is about re-arranging priorities until 'enlightened self interest' lines up with 'freely available software'17:26
X-FadeSell it and get free sourcecode with it..17:26
johnx...or .... bounties!17:27
wazd_n800money = piracy17:27
* johnx should probably shaddup about that :)17:27
X-FadeIf people can earn money with something, they might be able to invest more time in developing.17:27
wazd_n800it's senseless17:27
lcukbounties should come from elsewhere, not the consumer, to build the framework to allow the weekend apps to be built17:27
johnxwazd_n800, gotta say: it depends.17:27
johnxlcuk, no. money should come from anyone who wants to pay17:27
johnxwe've seen bounties offered on the forums already, but no one could get organized17:28
X-Fadewazd_n800: Would your really go through the trouble to pirate a $1 app?17:28
wazd_n800ok, now we got to my thesis that «money is the best inspiration»17:28
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lcukjohnx, agreed but user of the apple store would never have clicked on "improve the api of the textbox library" (unless it was for copy paste ;))17:28
johnxwazd_n800, luckily, we don't need to choose one inspiration.17:28
wazd_n800that's what I'm telling to all linux fans)17:28
wazd_n800but with money in list you don't need others)17:29
johnxwazd_n800, we want all kinds of developers. there is room for open source to coexist with paid apps17:30
X-Fadewazd_n800: Well we have the option to do nothing. But will that grow our platform in the long run? Attract a lot of people?17:30
lcukwazd, as an artist you have your drawings and layouts, if a customer said ill pay you £5 for a layout.  would you accept the money or not?17:30
johnxlcuk, exactly my point! what if there was a bounty up for "let ipod/iphone apps share data with each other on a non-jailbroken phone" on some respected iphone forum?17:30
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wazd_n800johnx: why would I give some app for free if I can sell it for a buck?17:31
lcukjohnx yeah but iphone core dev is *HARD* its not like having everything in front, its as hard as linux you need to KNOW the core stuff, not just the simple cartoon api17:31
johnxlcuk, that's not my point...17:32
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johnxwazd_n800, I don't know. why are you doing art for mer instead of charging us? why are you doing icons for RST38h's closed source emus?17:32
X-Fadewazd_n800: You don't have to charge money ;) You can also get satisfaction from being the most popular app or getting great response?17:33
wazd_n800I have princips. If a work is "no big deal" - I17:33
lcukjohnx, i agree its not the point, but you have to make sure you dont break the ecosystem, its gonna be hard for someone who isnt the core framework visionary to actually modify it in the way you suggest17:33
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lcukit would take serious amounts of cash17:33
wazd_n800ont accept it17:33
glasspeople need money to buy stuff like pandoras and usch17:33
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lcukand time and planning17:33
wazd_n800I have princips. If a work is "no big deal" - I wont accept iit17:33
johnxwazd_n800, do you think some other people feel the same way?17:33
lcukbbl again anyway17:34
johnxlcuk, we can have people review bounties before they're thrown into the wild...17:34
wazd_n800and if a work was really tough - I wont give it for free17:34
glassif a work is something that "anyone" could do, it's more likely someone will do it for free17:34
* StsN800 ponders what he stumbled into17:35
glassif work is both fun and profitable.. thats most motivating for anyone17:35
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johnxI think the big thing that affects whether people try to charge for apps is the 'tone' set by the community. DOS, and later, Windows has traditionally been the haven of Shareware. When people start using it they see Shareware all around, and when they start developing the first thing on their mind is "This is the way things work. Why should I give away my code for free when no one else is?"17:37
wazd_n800I'm making icons for FMS emus cause I like them) I do stuff for Mer cause I like the idea. But. I'f I'll make some app the would be popular - I'd better sell it for a buck than giveaway it for free17:38
johnxwazd_n800, would you write that app if you thought you could get paid for it? Would an app store motivate you to produce more code/art/whatever for the Nokia tablets?17:39
X-Fadewazd_n800: Well, in theory one can already do that now?17:39
* johnx 's apartment is cold O_o17:39
wazd_n800cause 1 buck is nothing for single person. But if Titan, for example would cost 1 buck then I'd have 6k bucks already)17:40
tank-manwhats titan?17:40
johnxwazd_n800, if there was an app store, would you have charged for titan?17:40
StsN800donations should probably also be mentioned17:40
wazd_n800x-fade: it's too difficult right now17:40
StsN80010-20 dollar donations does run up17:41
wazd_n800johnx: maybe17:41
X-Fadewazd_n800: Well, let's say you make it paypal donationware and you make a custom background for every donation.17:41
tank-manah a theme17:41
wazd_n800johnx: but I won't make it any faster for example17:41
StsN800X-Fade, people getting mentioned at theme page helps too17:41
StsN800for donating17:42
johnxwazd_n800, I don't think there's anything wrong with having some things cost money, especially if they aren't part of the core system17:42
X-FadeStsN800: Yes, there are all kinds of possible ways to get appreciation..17:42
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X-FadeBut it would be up to the developer to charge or give if for free. It would only be an option..17:43
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wazd_n800johnx: right now paying for an app is too difficult. But if we would have some centralized web based system, like ebay for example, then it would work17:44
X-FadeI personally think that attracting big developers to the platform will benefit the community as a whole.17:44
johnxwazd_n800, I couldn't tell earlier if you like the idea of an app store or hate it :P17:45
wazd_n800money is not an attraction for big devs17:45
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wazd_n800johnx: apple's store - total crap17:45
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johnxwazd_n800, how would you do it better?17:46
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wazd_n800johnx: I have to install itunes and slooooowly browse thru it just to check what apps are already done17:46
wazd_n800johnx: good example of store is an e-bay. but without auction17:47
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wazd_n800web based, with centralized pay system (paypal for example)17:48
johnxand without people trying to sell their virginity or their liver...17:48
wazd_n800Minimal moderation for hazardous software17:48
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X-Fadewazd_n800: Well, sure that would be the idea. Have a web app and/or an application on the device.17:48
GeneralAntillesh-a-m, obviously.17:49
GeneralAntillesWeb is clunky and slow.17:49
johnxGeneralAntilles, both. H-A-M is clunky and slow in a different way...17:49
wazd_n800nope, web only17:49
GeneralAntillesjohnx, but we can make it not be clunky and slow17:50
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Let's not get hung up on slow etc ;)17:50
GeneralAntillesWeb we're sort of stuck with.17:50
wazd_n800i wan't to access it from any os and device17:50
GeneralAntillesAnyway, both is fine.17:50
johnxGeneralAntilles, that's an interesting claim. I can build a moon rocket17:50
GeneralAntillesThat's how it is now.17:50
* GeneralAntilles sighs.17:50
johnxGeneralAntilles, honestly, sometimes I'm not sure if H-A-M is saveable...17:50
wazd_n800any OS orientation will suck17:50
X-FadeEven if we could get payment etc implemented in HAM, there would still need to be done a lot more..17:50
johnxwazd_n800, how would you handle DRM if it was your choice?17:51
wazd_n800app store should be web based for 10000%17:51
GeneralAntillesjohnx, we have a willing fulltime developer and lots of talented people.17:51
GeneralAntillesHonestly, I don't see the big issue.17:52
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GeneralAntillesIt works just fine for me as-is.17:52
wazd_n800johnx: I'd make a virus sceme17:52
johnxwazd_n800, huh?17:52
johnxGeneralAntilles, if you say so. I'll believe it when I see it.17:52
wazd_n800you can copy app wherever you want and it would work there for 2 days for example17:52
GeneralAntillesI can't say anything these days without running into that. <_<17:53
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johnxwazd_n800, the technical details of that are somewhat tricky for things like themes :)17:53
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wazd_n800after 2 days user would be ready to bu it or leave it17:54
wazd_n800I'm not a specialist in technical details as you know)17:54
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wazd_n800but I find this system pretty fair17:55
johnxwazd_n800, well, given that we don't have an infinite (or even microsoft amount) of programmers the technicalities may define the solution possible17:55
r2d2rogersLooking at garage, which version of the cx3110x driver should I mess with for mer and the 770?17:55
wazd_n800and demoversions ofcourse17:55
slonopotamusi think i have a proposal for right click support17:55
slonopotamuswhy not use some key as a modifier? for ex, 'menu' + click = right click17:56
johnxr2d2rogers, hmm, let me see if I can figure it out17:56
GeneralAntillesA solution that's been proposed often.17:57
GeneralAntillesWhy's wrong with tap'n'hold?17:57
johnxslonopotamus, some people have done that in the past. if it works for you then go for it :)17:57
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slonopotamusevery apps has to be hacked in order to support tap-and-hold17:57
slonopotamusjohnx, have any links?17:57
johnxwell, I know they do that for macs running linux17:58
X-FadeAnyway, I'll see if I can write a nice controversial mail to -community soon, to get the discussion started.17:58
qwerty12r2d2rogers, dunno if this applies to you, but at least for N800, newer cx3110x driver is here:
slonopotamusjohnx, well macos does this ;)17:58
johnxslonopotamus, also, there is another solution that can be done at the toolkit and I am confused why that's not used :/17:58
X-FadeWe should be able to get more response than some of the -users discussions :D17:58
slonopotamusjohnx, what solution?17:59
r2d2rogersqwerty12: thanks for the link17:59
johnxslonopotamus, so does ubuntu on a macbook if you set it up. I don't remember the source. been years since I had a mac17:59
johnxslonopotamus, aaah, the other's called gtk-stylus17:59
slonopotamusjohnx, i read there are trroubles with it18:00
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johnxthe only downside is it doesn't draw a spinny circle why you hold the stylus. other than that it works well18:00
slonopotamusjohnx, what if i really want a long left click?18:00
johnxused it for a long time on zaurus/gpe18:00
johnxI never found an app that needed that18:00
X-Fadeslonopotamus: You can also use presure data. "Press hard for right mouse click" :)18:00
lcuki hate tap and hold wit ha passion, i cannot ever use it properly18:00
slonopotamuspainting apps?18:00
johnxX-Fade, cause that works sooo reliably already :P18:00
GeneralAntilleslcuk, that's because Nokia broke it in Chinook.18:01
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X-Fadejohnx: Yeah :)18:01
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lcukdouble tap would be better if the system would respond in time18:01
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johnxlcuk, I think the solution is that apps shouldn't require right clicks :)18:01
slonopotamustap-n-hold is unusable when walking18:01
lcukGeneralAntilles, even in 2007 - i hate keeping still18:01
johnxslonopotamus, use your thumb :)18:01
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GeneralAntillesjohnx, that's OS X's solution.18:01
X-Fademultitouch :)18:01
lcukjohnx, im hoping to use thumbs in corners for other things ;)18:02
slonopotamusthumb is unusable in microb L)18:02
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lcukbut thats not the same :P18:02
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luke-jrmap one finger to right-click18:02
lcuk:) X-Fade18:02
johnxGeneralAntilles, well there's command click and long-click. they do the same, right?18:02
X-Fadefinger in left bottom corner and other finger touches where you want..18:02
luke-jrdo you get enough data to tell what finger it is?18:02
lcukX-Fade, i havent released it yet :P18:02
slonopotamusn8x0 doesn't have multitouch18:02
X-Fadeluke-jr: Nokia has pattents to sense fingers on the back of a device.18:02
lcukslonopotamus, BULLSHIT18:02
lcukooops - caps18:03
luke-jrX-Fade: I don't mean that18:03
luke-jrI mean use a pinky for right-click18:03
X-FadeSo you can also use that as a modifier.18:03
luke-jror the back of the stylus18:03
X-FadeYeah, that patent describes recognizing different fingers.18:03
lcukX-Fade, im gonna use the multitouch for SHIFT key :)18:03
qwerty12r2d2rogers, if you get symbol errors when compiling, apply to the source, put umac.ko in the top-level Makefile and edit the Makefile to change /scratchbox/users/faheem/... to your current kernel source18:03
luke-jrwell, I was thinking the tip of your fingerprint18:04
lcukX-Fade, you know the limitation with my multitouch needing to keep one finger in same place, people are already used to that with shift keys :)18:04
johnxr2d2rogers, when wifi is running on your 770 in maemo what modules are loaded?18:04
X-Fadelcuk: Pretty touch when walking though..18:05
X-Fadetough ;)18:05
lcukX-Fade, not really, you are already holding it with your thumb nearby18:05
* r2d2rogers takes notes from qwerty12 18:05
r2d2rogersjohnx: checking, I have  my other 770 in maemo now...18:05
johnxr2d2rogers, nice :)18:05
X-Fadelcuk: Yeah, so one hand to hold device and other to work the screen.18:06
slonopotamuslcuk, o_O18:06
lcukhow else can yopu walk and type right now?18:06
lcukusing touchscreen only18:06
johnxX-Fade, hold with your left hand, bring your thumb to the bottom left corner of the screen, tap with your right finger/thumb/earlobe18:06
lcukand one hand18:06
slonopotamuslcuk, it does?18:06
X-Fadelcuk: Hand on the front ;)18:06
GeneralAntillesjohnx, they're the same, but practically no application requires right-click.18:07
X-Fadelcuk: A few fingers to hold, a few to touch screen ;)18:07
lcukslonopotamus, you see the video, download liqbase to your device and test it yourself :)18:07
johnxGeneralAntilles, photoshop18:07
luke-jrI seem to have misplaced my handheld ;(18:07
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johnxGeneralAntilles, $*&$%ing photoshop drives me up the $*%&ing wall on Mac.18:07
GeneralAntillesjohnx, practically. :)18:07
lcukX-Fade, well if thats the case you cant generically do Shift + Letter and will have to fallback to old method18:07
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Gimp ;)18:07
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lcukbut it still "works"18:07
luke-jrhow much memory does Maemo need?18:07
GeneralAntillesjohnx, get a real mouse.18:07
lcukanyway, goin again :P18:07
luke-jrX-Fade: Gimp is fail; port Krita18:08
* lcuk wishes he could spend more time doing maemo stuff :'(18:08
X-Fadelcuk: What if you could sell liqbase based apps? :)18:08
slonopotamuslcuk, gprs :( send please to ?18:08
johnxGeneralAntilles, ahaha. nah, I just went back to using gimp on a normal-people computer :)18:08
slonopotamuslcuk, video link, i mean18:08
GeneralAntillesjohnx, then no bitching for you.18:08
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lcukX-Fade, why not, im gonna have a nice simple on device IDE and quick on device compilation and a simple graphics library and a nice collection of widgets18:09
johnxGeneralAntilles, don't hold up mac os x as a target unless you want me to shoot at it :) I've used it long enough to have a hate list for it (I have one for lots of OSes)18:09
r2d2rogersjohnx: cx3110x umac and ext2 are all I see in lsmod (as I just posted this to
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lcuki want to make it easy for myself to create compelling applications on this and other devices and if others want to pay for them thats great18:10
lcukbut arghhhh im not here18:10
luke-jrbtw, why does it seem people use extX on Nokia devices?18:10
luke-jrwhy not jffs2?18:11
johnxluke-jr, jffs2 is for raw NAND. ext2/3 is for block devices18:11
slonopotamusoh my :) you're cheating18:11
qwerty12jffs2 isn't meant to be used on SD cards. the internal flash where the os is stored is jffs218:11
X-Fadeluke-jr: jffs2 has some serious memory requirements too.18:11
johnxr2d2rogers, interesting. then I think qwerty12 gave you the right link. for some reason I thought there was something different about the wireless driver for the 77018:12
* slonopotamus reads about multitouch simulation18:12
luke-jranyhow, is Maemo likely to work on a handheld w/ 64 MB RAM?18:12
qwerty12Is it certain that Nokia are using UBIFS in the RX-51?18:12
johnxr2d2rogers, did you already test wireless under mer by copying modules into place?18:12
slonopotamusi want a way to have right click without hacking each and every app18:12
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, the kernel changelog is fucking filled to the brim with it.18:12
johnxslonopotamus, what was the problem with gtk-stylus?18:12
slonopotamusluke-jr, n770 has 64mb, if i'm not mistaken18:13
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, hehe, I've never bothered to look at it. Thanks :)18:13
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r2d2rogersjohnx: I started to, but didn't get far due to sapwood18:13
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johnxluke-jr, it's a little tight with the current version of Maemo, but doable18:13
slonopotamusjohnx, trying to remember, 1 sec18:13
johnxluke-jr, totally doable with swap though18:13
luke-jrswap on flash⁈18:13
johnxswap to sd18:13
luke-jrSD is flash18:14
johnxand 4GB is $1018:14
luke-jrplus, my system only has one SD slot18:14
luke-jrand nothing internal18:14
johnxif it wears out in 3 years from swapping, then get a new one18:14
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luke-jrI guess I need to find it first.18:14
luke-jrbut I've looked everywhere :/18:15
johnxas long as you don't plan to run a browser it's possible I think18:15
slonopotamusfirst link is m$.com o_O18:15
johnxslonopotamus, which one is telling me the problem? the first link?18:16
johnxluke-jr, what device are you thinking about running maemo on?18:16
slonopotamusjohnx, nope, i'm searching...18:16
luke-jrjohnx: Zaurus C76018:16
johnxluke-jr, aaaah, very interesting. :) I have it working nicely on a c1000 right here18:16
luke-jrjohnx: oh, so it's already been ported? :O18:17
johnxluke-jr, I'm part of the Mer project, to get maemo working on top of a (thin) ubuntu base.18:17
luke-jrwhy Ubuntu?18:17
johnxmainly because it's modern, is optimized for armv5te and has upstart18:18
luke-jrDebian doesn't?18:18
luke-jrlast time I checked, Ubuntu was x86 only18:18
johnxdebian is compiled for armv4t and is still based on a normal init18:18
johnxluke-jr, nope. it's been multi-platform since it started18:19
johnxthere arm port is recent though18:19
luke-jrguess they don't ship ARM CDs out free18:19
slonopotamusjohnx, explains all the details of tap-n-hold problem18:19
johnxbut your c760 doesn't have a cd-rom drive either :P18:19
luke-jrwould be nice if they shipped bootable SD cards18:19
johnxluke-jr, yes, and I'd like to be the king of Tasmania and where a shiny hat18:20
* qwerty12 's throne is under attack by johnx it seems...18:20
luke-jrjohnx: so would getting it on my 760 be easy, or am I best waiting for the next Nokia thing?18:21
johnxluke-jr, I used up my proper english quota for today :P18:21
* luke-jr doesn't have a lot of time, and needs to find the C760 itself, and find a solution for its dead battery18:21
johnxluke-jr, if you wait for nokia it will be a long wait :P18:21
luke-jrwhy? :/18:21
johnxbecause they'll never support it18:21
johnxit's a community project18:22
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luke-jrI mean Nokia's next handheld18:22
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luke-jrpresumably shipping with Maemo18:22
johnxaaah, well, then yeah, if you want to wait 6 months the next handheld will prolly be really nice18:22
luke-jr6 mo :o18:23
GeneralAntillesAugust, now, eh?18:23
GeneralAntillesIt'll be sooner than that.18:23
luke-jrI'm so tempted to get the N810 :/18:23
johnxGeneralAntilles, maybe, maybe. :P18:23
GeneralAntilles"I'll believe it when I see it"18:23
GeneralAntillesI'm going to stab the next person that says that. :P18:23
luke-jrthe N810 currently costs about 8 hours of work for me18:23
johnxluke-jr, then go for it. ~$220 @ it seems. nice devices18:23
qwerty12I'll believe it when I see it18:23
luke-jrwill getting the 760 working take > 8 hrs?18:24
GeneralAntilles~stab qwerty1218:24
GeneralAntillesPoor infobot18:24
qwerty12Muhahahaha, no infobot. Hire a better hitman :P18:24
johnxGeneralAntilles stabs qwerty12. The attack was not effective18:24
GeneralAntillesI wish jott were about18:24
GeneralAntillesHe needs to come back and finish his bot18:24
luke-jrjohnx: will getting the C760 working take > 8 hrs?18:24
johnxluke-jr, right now, probably less than 8 hours if you follow directions. if you wait until february I hope to have something very simple :)18:25
GeneralAntillesSince we can't count on Infobot18:25
luke-jrFeb 1?18:25
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johnxluke-jr, not giving release days :P18:25
johnxluke-jr, it would be faster, if *someone else with a zaurus* wanted to help >_<18:25
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luke-jrjohnx: well, I can't even find mine yet18:26
luke-jrso it might be until Feb before I have one to test :þ18:26
luke-jrany idea where I might have put it?18:26
johnxluke-jr, what ROM are you running on it? have you tried zubuntu?18:26
luke-jrjohnx: currently it has a custom OE build18:26
johnxand you built that OE build yourself?18:27
johnxaaah...way less than 8 hours :P18:27
luke-jrback in 200618:27
qwerty12"Also, OZ-ljr is maintained live-- new versions every day! =p" :P18:27
johnxbasically it's just debootstrap ubuntu-minimal, chroot to install some things, use altboot to boot from sd and install mer-specific packages18:28
johnxif you're interested though I'll spend time working on the image builder for zaurus so it's just 'untar to sd and boot with altboot'18:30
johnxso tell me when you find your c760 :)18:30
slonopotamusn8x0 uses tslib, right?18:30
johnxslonopotamus, yes18:30
luke-jrjohnx: I'll need to figure out altboot too ☺18:30
slonopotamusjohnx, then i have something really interesting:
johnxluke-jr, compile it and install it. done :P18:30
qwerty12Is down?18:31
slonopotamusjohnx, the lower level of tap-n-hold, the more apps can benefit from it18:31
slonopotamusjohnx, and there's a patch for tslib18:32
slonopotamuswhat means _all_ x apps18:32
johnxslonopotamus, reading18:33
slonopotamusi like it18:33
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johnxslonopotamus, it will possibly break some maemo apps18:34
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slonopotamusjohnx, for ex?18:35
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slonopotamusjohnx, it will repair tons of non-maemo apps :)18:35
johnxslonopotamus, the first page you linked about gtk stylus suggests that a tap-hold in maemo generates a different callback than 'right click'18:36
opengeekv2anybody knows if its possible to make telephonic calls witha NIT linked to a phone via bluetooth?18:36
johnxunless maemo apps are watching for right click as well as the custom 'tap and hold' callback I think it will mean they get nothing18:36
slonopotamusbut that never got implemented18:37
johnxslonopotamus, huh? what do you mean?18:37
slonopotamusjohnx, gtk bug has long discussion and they didn't come to conclusion18:37
johnxslonopotamus, it's in maemo's gtk, not upstream gtk18:37
slonopotamusjohnx, that bug is still open18:37
johnxhow do you think tap-and-hold works now?18:37
slonopotamusi meant it wasn't implemented upstream18:38
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johnxopengeekv2, I think there's a way to make the phone dial, but the voice doesn't get sent to the NIT18:38
johnxslonopotamus, well, mer and maemo use maemo-gtk so upstream isn't really related...18:39
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opengeekv2ok it's what i suspected18:39
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slonopotamusjohnx, ok. i'm not sure i like maemo-gtk, so i'm searching for alternatives18:39
johnxopengeekv2, you could use it with a bt headset if your phone supports bt :)18:39
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johnxslonopotamus, going to make your own distro? :)18:40
TheFatali have  a problem... :S why when i press home button, where said "Home", now says "tana_fi_home"18:40
johnxTheFatal, what did you install recently?18:41
TheFatalopenbox and sliderotate_support_n81018:41
slonopotamusjohnx, nope. going to add some ebuilds to gentoo so it has enough apps to be used on n8x018:41
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johnxslonopotamus, ah, cool then :) Keep in mind that most maemo apps won't work compile with the normal version of gtk18:42
johnx<- fails at english tonight18:42
slonopotamusjohnx, that's their problem :)18:42
johnxslonopotamus, it's just a heads up. it bit me in the @$$ so I figured I'd warn you18:43
slonopotamusjohnx, i dislike this too. going away from upstream doesn't offer any benefits18:44
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slonopotamusbut many troubles :)18:44
johnxdislike what?18:44
johnxand the thing is, we have many upstreams. the pain comes from trying to mix-and-match different upstreams18:44
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slonopotamuswhat your process is - a constant merging with conflicts18:45
slonopotamusit's a hardest operation18:46
johnxthe hardest would be taking ubuntu's gtk and trying to make it work with maemo apps18:46
slonopotamustake gnome foundation's gtk :)18:48
johnxsame difference :P18:48
johnxso how goes gentoo? do you have a complete desktop for it yet?18:48
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slonopotamusnope, i'm choosing it18:50
johnxtried lxde?18:50
slonopotamusi don't want to loose many already present ebuilds by using maemo gtk18:51
johnxlxde is based on normal gtk18:51
johnxvery lightweight. even lighter than xfce18:51
slonopotamusbut if i use vanilla gtk, i need right mouse support.18:52
johnxwe used it as default in deblet for a while, but it was tough to get an onscreen keyboard integrated18:52
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woglindejohnx what do you use now?18:52
slonopotamusthat's the second problem :)18:52
johnxwoglinde, well deblet is on hold while we focus on mer. and mer is hildon-desktop :)18:53
johnxslonopotamus, I won't lie, it's a real PITA. I got matchbox-keyboard to mostly play nice with sawfish wm18:54
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slonopotamusjohnx, why not matchbox-kb with matchbox-wm?18:54
johnxslonopotamus, if you're using matchbox wm you might as well use maemo...18:54
slonopotamusjohnx, see above :) i don't like patched gtk18:55
johnxneither did Stskeeps or I at first. We both spent time trying to have our cake and eat it too :)18:56
slonopotamusjohnx, so, i have my right to try :)18:57
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slonopotamusjohnx, you thought i'm insane when i started porting gentoo :)18:57
johnxof course. :) I can't tell you what to do. And feel free to ask questions about the problems I ran into18:57
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johnxslonopotamus, I *still* think you're insane for porting gentoo. Whether you succeed or not doesn't change that :P18:58
slonopotamusi really appreciate your advices18:58
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slonopotamusbtw, cpu is not a problem, it's fast enough18:58
slonopotamusram is much worse18:58
johnxyou're far more patient that I...18:58
slonopotamusi have to quit microb when building apps18:59
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johnxnot booting yet?18:59
slonopotamusit's too ram-hungry18:59
slonopotamusnope. i don't have much free time :) you saw how i started with gentoo somewhere in october19:00
johnxkind of a rough start that time, IIRC19:00
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* fireun wishes he could solder more ram onto his 770s19:02
slonopotamusi have to choose next target. either gui or booting. but booting without gui is pretty useless19:02
johnxslonopotamus, no usb keyboard?19:02
Shadow__Xehy does anyone know how to change the time format in gpe19:02
Gracklefireun, has anyone tried that?19:02
johnxfireun, lots of us have gadgets we feel that way about :/19:02
slonopotamusjohnx, can't find female-female usb cord here :(19:02
qwerty12Is it possible for gconftool to dump a gconf schema file, or will I have to write one manually (ouch) myself? :/19:02
johnxah, sad. have you tried usbnet?19:03
slonopotamusjohnx, not yet19:03
GeneralAntillesGrackle, you'd have to be a machine to solder new RAM on there.19:03
GrackleNah, surface mount soldering is easy.19:03
r2d2rogersfireun: where ya from?19:04
GrackleThat's tricker, but a hot plate and a rework station will do it.19:04
slonopotamusjohnx, actually i can say that i spent ~80% of time collecting info and ~20% for working for my first goal (working chroot)19:05
GrackleI just wouldn't know how to go about doing it. Is there room for more RAM?19:05
GrackleOr would you have to remove the RAM that's in it and replace it with a higher capacity chip?19:06
GeneralAntillesYou'd have to swap in a bigger chip.19:06
GeneralAntillesI don't know if it would actually work anyway.19:07
slonopotamusi'll pay $200 to anyone who can put 256mb ram on my tablet (and if it'll still work) :)19:07
fireunlooks like I kicked over an anthill19:07
johnxfireun, i was agreeing with you :)19:08
luke-jrslonopotamus: is there a penalty if I fail>19:08
johnxI'd love 128MB of RAM in my zaurus19:08
* Grackle off to class19:09
Shadow__Xanyone gpe 12 hour time instead of 2419:09
luke-jrspecifically, I'll give it a try, and accept $200 if I succeed, but I'd probably fail19:09
GeneralAntillesslonopotamus, why not just buy a new tablet? :P19:09
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luke-jrGeneralAntilles: none exist with 256 MB RAM?19:09
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Pavlzin which repository must be the command line whois ?19:10
johnxGeneralAntilles, I'll believe it ... OMG, don't kill me!19:10
fireunwheres my terrabyte of unified memory?19:10
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Shadow__Xanyone use gpe here19:11
luke-jrfireun: a TB of memory that can only hold one value?19:11
luke-jrwhy not just use a bit?19:11
johnxfireun, sorry, I was going to bring it to you, but I accidentally dropped it in the future...19:12
JaffaShadow__X: I believe it uses LC_TIME19:13
Shadow__Xso how do i change that19:14
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Shadow__Xis that a file i can edit Jaffa19:14
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fireunjohnx: oh, well let me just take a walk into tomorrow, I'll be right back19:17
johnxhmm...I'm already in your tomorrow. I don't see it around here :/ might be farther up the road19:17
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JaffaShadow__X: It's an environment variable. Google should help19:20
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Pavlzhow to enable the usb in host mode ?19:21
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Shadow__Xhow do you reset xterms zoom after you mess with it using the zoom keys on a n18019:25
qwerty12By pressing the buttons to get it back to how it was before perhaps?19:26
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Shadow__Xbut what if you do not remember how many times you have pressed the buttons and do not remember how it should look19:27
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JaffaThere's no "should" look,you change it until you're happy. Nokia aren't going to send you an email, telling you off for having the "wrong" settings ;-)19:30
johnxJaffa, actually the part where it doesn't send that email is a bug :D19:31
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Shadow__Xi meant default setting19:32
Shadow__Xbut yeah i get it19:32
Shadow__Xi added a line in /etc/osso-af-init/locale19:32
Shadow__Xexpor lc_time =en_us19:32
JaffaShadow__X: I think it just changes the size in Tools > settings.19:32
JaffaI use "Droid Sans Mono 10"19:33
qwerty12It's a seperate setting to the font size in settings. Odd but true...19:33
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Jaffaqwerty12: but it doesn't expose it in the menu? Pfft19:33
qwerty12Jaffa, it used to: :). But it was removed for some reason (I readded it)19:34
JaffaIt's these little details which makes Maemo look like the poorest, cobbled together, open source man-in-a-garage effort19:34
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* Jaffa suspects he may be in a bad mood today.19:35
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qwerty12For speaking bad against Nokia? ;)19:35
johnxJaffa, hence, :D19:35
JaffaDoing some Mer homepage wiki page editing and mud changes to finish off the vim package and get it into extras19:35
johnxah, Thanks Jaffa :)19:36
Jaffajohnx: little did we know that Nokia were going back to Apple/HP levels of innovation19:36
* johnx should get back to mer stuff19:36
timelesswhat does +)pt mean?19:36
johnxfont sizes are in 'points' or 'pt'19:36
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timelesssure, but what's +0pt?19:37
Jaffajohnx: I'm thninking of something like, reusing the large friendly buttons from my mockup (URL not to hand)19:37
johnxso your default font is 10pt + 0pt of additional zoom19:37
timelesswouldn't a humand call that 'normal'?19:37
johnxtimeless, software isn't written by humans19:37
JaffaMessage should be19:37
timelessbtw, that isn't a font size menu19:37
timelessit's a font zoom menu19:37
timelessXXX fix me before i take away your banana19:38
johnxtimeless, it's fixed. it was removed.19:38
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johnxnow there's no way to set it to a certain zoom level through the menu. problem solved, eh?19:38
Jaffajohnx: for getting involved & downloading19:38
johnxJaffa, looks very nice :) So that's the design that's gonna be official?19:39
johnxBTW, tell me it's not fixed width ... please19:39
JaffaNah,'s gonna be betterf than that19:39
GeneralAntillesjohnx, hit up the minutes on -community. :P19:40
johnxGeneralAntilles, ah, ok. will check later19:40
JaffaAnd fixed width is evil; and this week's meeting (finally) switched the new design to be fluid; after X-Fade proved it could be done19:40
johnxJaffa, aaah. I misunderstood. so you're borrowing the buttons for mer wiki?19:40
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Jaffajohnx: yup. I'm proud of them :)19:40
johnxyeah, it'd be nice for it to look like 'more than just another wiki page' :)19:41
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timelesssp3000 comnplains that the font size for the top stuff is too small, unless zoom works really well19:44
timelesstypos all mine19:44
Shadow__Xit doesnt seem like anyone on itt has solved the 24 hour view on gpe summary19:45
Jaffajohnx: bsolutely19:45
johnxShadow__X, most of the world uses 24h time19:45
Pavlzusb-otg-plugin requires too much dependencies19:46
johnxPavlz, i suggest usb control19:46
Shadow__Xyeah but i live in a controller that does not bend to peer pressure19:46
Pavlzto be installed on nokia 77019:46
johnxPavlz, you need something totally different on the 770. you need a different kernel19:46
Pavlzi just try it without any success19:46
johnxPavlz, sorry. I forgot you had a 770 earlier19:47
qwerty12iirc, the linux flasher has an option for enabling host mode on 77019:47
StOrM_NWany site that i can get hints about python development for maemo? or any known application that i can get the source that is already running at the tablet that was write in python?19:47
johnxqwerty12, ah, is it just a flasher thing?19:47
Pavlzif this mean to flash i renunce to it19:47
Pavlzi have spent all the night to find all the packages19:48
qwerty12johnx, flasher-3.0 has the option to "--enable-usb-host-mode" which I have read being used to enable 770's host mode. But I don't know if that is the "de facto" way (or even if it is the only way to do so).19:48
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Pavlzi think to do in hardware way19:50
* jpt9 has a 1GB RSMMC card for his 770 :-D19:50
* jpt9 is happy.19:50
Pavlzi saw other people that build a circuit19:50
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Pavlzi thank you19:51
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johnxPavlz, yes. there are two parts for the 770: a hardware part, then you need to use flasher to enable host mode (You don't need to reflash)19:51
Myrttireally annoying that atleast I see in the wiki recent changes my own nickname still as if it wouldn't have a userpage19:51
johnxif you google; nokia 770 usb host mode you should find answers19:51
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Pavlzthe cable jtag for nokia 77019:53
johnxthat's different19:53
johnxI think19:53
Pavlzthat is similar to a mini rs 23219:53
qwerty12hell no, that's for the serial port at the back which has nothing to do with usb host.19:54
Pavlzwhere is possible to find ?19:54
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Pavlzyes i know19:54
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Pavlzbut where can i buy it ?19:54
GeneralAntillesMyrtti, there's a bug about it.19:55
GeneralAntillesContributions are broken too19:55
Pavlzthe center of assistance don't give me one19:55
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Pavlzon the web i don't know where to search19:56
qwerty12I think the general consensus is that you have to make one yourself...19:56
MyrttiGeneralAntilles: yeah, that's really annoying as well19:56
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zecrazytuxI'm running a plain Debian armel on my N810 for testing. I copied the rx-44 keyboard symbol file and use 'setxkbmap -symbols "nokia_vndr/rx-44(fr)" to get a french keyboard mapping, but fn and ctrl keys don't work19:58
zecrazytuxwhat else do I need ?19:58
Pavlzanyone bought the jtag cable for nokia 770 ?19:59
GeneralAntillesMyrtti, has to do with accounts being imported from Garage.19:59
GeneralAntillesPavlz, there's nothing to buy.20:00
GeneralAntillesYou'll have to make your own.20:00
Pavlzi could to do it20:02
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Pavlzif there is a map of pins20:02
PavlzGnd, Rts,20:02
Pavlzbut the connector ?20:03
MyrttiGeneralAntilles: suspected as much20:05
* qwerty12 remembers to never offer help in packaging a python app again...20:06
r2d2rogersStslap: any word on the mer repo?20:07
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johnxqwerty12, difficult?20:07
johnxaaah. pymaemo?20:07
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qwerty12johnx, a fucking nightmare. I've used distutils with a that installs files correctly in the "python way" but I'm changing the way modules are imported etc on a ton of files etc :/20:08
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johnxdid you ever find what you wanted about gconf and dumping a schema?20:08
qwerty12No, that's for something else, I've left that to one side for now :)20:09
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qwerty12I think you're meant to write the file out manually. Would be nice if you could dump a copy from gconf itself in the schema format...20:09
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johnxthere's a get-scheme but it just prints the name I believe20:11
* slonopotamus has successfully compiles git, cvs and svn in gentoo20:11
slonopotamusinfobot died?20:12
johnxyes, and your syntax is wrong20:12
qwerty12Yes, but that substitution wouldn't have worked anyway20:12
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qwerty12nah, all it needs is a "/" on the end20:13
johnxthat's what he did :)20:13
slonopotamusi added / ;)20:13
johnxbut infobot (even when it's here) doesn't understand anything but s/foo/bar/20:13
zecrazytuxnobody knows ?20:13
qwerty12I was looking at it in regards of the first substitution :), the second one seems overkill for infobot ;)20:13
slonopotamusanyway. i didn't come across anything that didn't work in my gentoo20:14
johnxzecrazytux, which x server are you using?20:14
slonopotamusi wonder if anyone else has eabi gentoo, or i'm first :)20:15
johnxslonopotamus, some people working on it for the pandora20:15
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zecrazytuxjohnx: xserver-xomap20:16
zecrazytuxfrom the deblet project20:16
johnxonly thing I can think of is to try xmodmap -pke from both maemo and your debian install20:16
zecrazytuxbut I think they don't modify it, It may come from maemo20:16
johnxin deblet I believe HAL sets the keymap20:17
lardmanjohnx: well that well and truely blows it out of the water20:17
* RST38h moos20:17
zecrazytuxjohnx: well, I don't want to use deblet20:17
RST38hjohnx/qwerty/lardman/all helo20:17
zecrazytuxjohnx: how in maemo is the keymap set ?20:17
lardmanhi RST38h20:17
qwerty12hi RST38h20:17
johnxzecrazytux, with HAL20:17
* lardman grabs a glass of wine and does something useful like updating the sbc patches20:18
slonopotamussbc - ?20:18
lardmanrather than being shocked at the rubbish handling of the Pandora20:18
zecrazytuxjohnx: and what are the file used ? rx-44 is not sufficient ?20:18
lardmanslonopotamus: a2dp stuff20:18
lardmanwill update with ssvb's latest patches, so we can have sbc goodness too :)20:19
johnxzecrazytux, there's a .fdi file in maemo that's not in deblet. other than that make sure dbus is started before HAL and HAL is started before xserver-xomap20:19
johnxsorry I don't remember the name20:19
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johnxlardman, yeah. I heard about that. are you gonna stick with it still or wait until there is actual hardware out there?20:21
zecrazytuxjohnx: i've found this:, that gives great information20:23
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lardmanjohnx: no it's canned as far as I'm concerned, I only wanted some omap3 hardware, and if they don't take CC I'm not interested20:23
zecrazytuxI've found it thanks to you, eh :)20:23
zecrazytuxjohnx: many thanks20:23
Khertan_n810Hi again !20:23
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lardmanjohnx: what about you? Did you pay, I can't remember?20:23
johnxzecrazytux, sure. no problem.20:24
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johnxlardman, I'm hanging in there. I'm going to pass on the next Nokia produkt unless someone just hands me one I think20:24
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lardmanjohnx: oh yeah, you were after the gaming controls weren't you. I'd far prefer a Nokia tablet to the Pandora. Might have to get a Beagle now to fill the gap20:26
* lardman grumbles about wasting time waiting for the Pandora20:26
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GeneralAntillesjohnx, you don't think you can get a discount code?20:26
johnxlardman, I was after 'early access' and some other niceties. gaming controls are a plus though20:26
johnxGeneralAntilles, dunno. have to see when it comes out and whether I'm in a position to use it :)20:27
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johnxGeneralAntilles, but to answer your question: no I didn't think I'd get one when I ordered the pandora20:27
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StOrM_NWi bought a nokia N810 .. and i m trying to use the maemo sdk+ that was released. maemo sdk+ had installed the rootstrap diablo4.1.2_armel as the default rootstrap to use, can i use it for development for n810, the tablet is using the original firmware that comes when ya buy a new device. OS 2008, is this the diablo4.1.2 version?20:28
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GeneralAntillesjohnx, with Deblet and everything?20:29
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GeneralAntillesI think you underestimate yourself.20:29
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GeneralAntillesDid you _see_ some of the people they handed those things out to last time?20:29
lardmanGeneralAntilles:  oi! ;)20:29
johnxGeneralAntilles, i actually didn't do much with deblet, and in september I wasn't really planning to do much more on it20:30
johnxStOrM_NW, whatever came installed on it is almost certainly out of date. You should install the latest OS for it20:30
StOrM_NWis there any way to see which version is running at it atm?20:31
johnxStOrM_NW, settings -> control panel -> about product20:31
qwerty12Menu > Settings > Control Panel > About20:31
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StOrM_NWbut it just says OS 200820:31
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johnxyes, OS2008 has been out since late 2007 :)20:32
johnxwhat *exact* version does it say?20:32
StOrM_NWoh heheh20:32
StOrM_NWVersion: 2.2007.51-320:32
johnxright, you're a year out of date :)20:32
StOrM_NWheh lol20:32
StOrM_NWis it a safe task?20:33
lardmanI see Siarhei is being put to good use by Nokia, Cortex code for sbc encoding20:33
johnxStOrM_NW, yup20:33
johnxlardman, optimized assembly for the a8, right?20:34
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lardmanjohnx: yep, looks like that's what his plan is (from the Bluez list)20:34
johnxvery cool20:35
johnxwill be looking forward to that :)20:35
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lardmanhmm, bluez site doesn't have much info for the budding bluez developer to work out how to download their repo20:41
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slonopotamusi'll tell you one secret20:42
slonopotamuswhy i like source-based distros20:42
slonopotamusbecause there's something in watching build log running through screen :)20:43
* johnx prefers using his device :P20:44
qwerty12_N800Build firefox and you'll soon get bored...20:44
johnxheck, even firefox's build-depends20:44
doc|homeit's even better if you use it at work. My last job was a place where they were amazed to see a cli ftp client uploading some files. They'd be blown away to see me running a firefox build.20:44
johnxdoc|home, did they hide under their desks and scream 'witch'?20:45
johnxwhat? just me?20:45
lardmanhmm, anyone have a clue as to how to download Bluez using git20:46
* lardman goes looking for some clues20:46
* johnx looks20:47
* slonopotamus dislikes libtool-based builds. they write almost identical commands three times per each file20:47
* lcuk smiles20:47
lardmanah, git clone git://
lardmanshame they don't mention that on their website20:47
johnxlardman, looks like, beat me to it by a second :P20:48
lardmanprobably to disuade people like me from using it ;)20:48
lcukjohnx, TTL20:48
lardmanjohnx: thanks anyway20:48
qwerty12_N800git sucks for getting a specific branch, I had to do : just to get release diablo branch20:48
lcuklardman, pm20:48
johnx'later lcuk20:48
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slonopotamusoh my20:48
lcukyou goin?20:48
slonopotamusmy gentoo git works!20:48
johnxlcuk, ah, I thought TTL was Talk Toyou later20:49
lcuktime to live for the web20:49
lcukthats why lardman won20:49
johnxalso because he was looking for it 15 minutes before me :P20:50
lcukheh yeah20:50
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* slonopotamus is scared of building openoffice20:51
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RST38hTTL is Transistor-Transistor Logic20:53
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johnxTTL is ambiguous20:54
RST38hWhoever thinks it is something different is either too young or never learned any EE20:54
* RST38h cackles evilly20:54
jpt9I just got a 1GB RSMMC card; I have around ~700MB or so of ebooks on it...20:54
johnxRST38h, TTL is time to live. whoever doesn't know what it means should get off my Internet20:54
jpt9For some reason, FBReader is much slower with it.20:54
jpt9Any ideas on what might be going on?20:55
RST38hjohnx: I have infinite time to live20:55
* fireun agrees with RST38h20:55
RST38hjohnx: Means two things: first, your ttl does not apply, second, not getting off =)20:55
johnxRST38h, would explain your routing loops...20:55
* fireun sets his parity bit20:55
johnxjpt9, is it indexing all 700MB?20:55
RST38hjohnx: Large and Coily is the Tentacled One!20:56
jpt9I doubt it.20:56
jpt9They're all either .txt, .htm, or .rtf, none of which, IIRC, FBReader can actually index.20:56
RST38hjpt: If you formatted it in a phone, you may want to reformat on the tablet20:56
jpt9I don't use FBReader's library; I just add them.20:56
jpt9I haven't formatted it.20:56
jpt9It came preformatted.20:56
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jpt9I'll try doing that this weekend.20:56
johnxso what's slower? fbreader or anything that uses the card?20:57
jpt9How long would it take in the 770?20:57
RST38hwhole week =)20:57
johnxprobably about a minute or two?20:57
RST38hif you do it by hand, sector by sector20:57
jpt9Haven't really tried anything besides FBReader.20:57
johnxdid the 770 have metalayer-crawler?20:57
jpt9johnx: Mine does.20:58
* jpt9 is running 2007HE. I think.20:58
lardmanhow does one go from -> -> Makefile?20:58
johnxmake sure it's not going nuts :)20:58
lcuklardman configure20:59
johnxjpt9, open x terminal and type top20:59
qwerty12_N800lardman, autosomething make in file, configure m20:59
qwerty12_N800akes Makefile20:59
lcukthe .am and .in are parameters used to build the final makefile - i dread seeing them in projects cos i cant run make on them on device20:59
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jpt9johnx: Doesn't seem to be going nuts or anything.21:00
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slonopotamusjohnx, does mer run fsck wher it is imprpoperly shut down?21:04
johnxslonopotamus, let me check the boot scripts. I believe it does, but that was Stslap's thing, not mine :)21:05
doc|homewhat is this mer of which you speak?21:06
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RST38hBTW, Tesla is currently doing a Pandora at a much larger scale21:07
johnxit's Nokia's hildon moved to a minimal ubuntu base21:07
johnxwoglinde, infobot is dead21:07
qwerty12_N800no infobot21:07
woglindewhere is he gone21:07
lcukinfbot has deserted us :'(21:07
lardmanhmm, doesn't seem to autogen a Makefile21:07
RST38hDon't you, early Pandora adopters, feel happy now? :)21:07
slonopotamuswho manages infobot?21:07
johnxRST38h, except pandora honored their original price and is only a couple months late so far :)21:07
lcukRST38h, hell yeah wouldnt you :D21:08
lcukoooh thats not right21:08
qwerty12_N800hah, infobot is connected to freenode - just not in any channel21:08
lcuklardman does ./configure fail for any reason?21:09
johnxqwerty12_N800, maybe we can pm him and lure him back?21:09
lardmanI'm using dpkg-buildpackage21:09
lcukthats making a .deb21:09
qwerty12_N800johnx, you first :p. i'll swear21:09
lardmanindeed, build & make deb21:09
qwerty12_N800at it probably :P21:09
lcukwhats the makefile for then?21:10
qwerty12_N800lardman, what's the debian/rules file like?21:10
* lcuk looks at qwerty21:10
johnxqwerty12_N800, the best part will be when I msg infobot something inane and it's actually someone's nick :)21:10
qwerty12_N800johnx, lol, always a good situation to be in :)21:11
* qwerty12_N800 waves at lcuk21:11
slonopotamushe doesn't reply21:11
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slonopotamusinfobot, i mean21:11
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johnxlcuk, a dpkg-buildpackage follows the rules in debian/rules, which usually consist (very roughly) of calling ./configure && make && make install, then doing any debian specific shuffling about21:11
lcukhello infobot21:11
slonopotamusi cured him21:11
lardmanqwerty12_N800: horrible as always ;)21:11
* Stslap yawns21:12
qwerty12_N800~hump qwerty12_N80021:12
lcukahhh johnx, i thought it took preexisting stuff21:12
slonopotamusi told him to join #maemo21:12
qwerty12_N800slonopotamus, wicked :)21:12
johnx~lart the unbelievers21:12
* infobot cuts off the unbelievers's head with a halberd that could have been a little bit sharper21:12
geersIs there a sshfs applet for maemo?21:13
qwerty12_N800lardman, hehe, you get used to it eventually :p21:13
infobotaw, gee, johnx21:13
slonopotamusqwerty12_N800, uh?21:13
johnxgeers, yes21:13
Stslapr2d2rogers: apologies, it's really stormy outside and i have to finish a paper today :)21:13
Stslapmeant to go to restart it but forgot21:13
qwerty12_N800slonopotamus, that you got 'im (or her looking at ~shag response...) back21:13
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johnxgeers, I think it's in extras21:14
qwerty12_N800But by doing so, you've sealed my fate because GeneralAntilles can now ~stab me :P21:15
geersHmm guess I have to google it21:15
lardmanhmm, it lies21:15
johnxgeers, it's in the extras repository. do you have that enabled?21:16
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slonopotamus~say hello, people21:16
infobothello, people21:16
vincenzo88Hello all :=)21:16
qwerty12_N800infobot, wipe me down21:17
infobot# dd if=/dev/zero of=me down21:17
GeneralAntilles~stab qwerty12_N80021:17
* infobot runs at qwerty12_N800 with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut.21:17
johnxgeers, it won't show up in the application manager. try apt-cache search sshfs21:17
geersAhh offcourse. But is this for diablo?21:18
johnxgeers, yes21:19
infobothmm... mer is and
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geersOk. Thanks. Igive it a try21:19
johnxinfobot, mer is
infobot...but mer is already something else...21:20
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Stslapinfobot, no, mer is
johnxinfobot, no, mer is
infobotokay, Stslap21:20
infobotokay, johnx21:20
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Stslapinfobot, no, mer is
Stslaphttp :P21:20
johnxeep O_o21:20
Stslapinfobot, no, mer is
infobotStslap: okay21:20
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x29awhy is infobot only in #maemo and not the others channels anymore?21:25
Stslapx29a: we had lost it for a bit too O_o21:25
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qwerty12_N800because they haven't told him/her/it to come back21:26
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GeneralAntillesinfobot, join #debian21:29
GeneralAntillesx29a, it takes only that.21:29
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Stslapif you want to relay some things :)21:30
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Meiz_n810i didn't know ham is working21:39
Stslapso it is21:40
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Stslapbut repository is down right now as it's snowing and windy outside :P21:43
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johnxI keep telling you to take your server in from outside :D21:44
Stslapi know but the freezing cold keeps it running well21:44
qwerty12_N800Evidently :p21:44
* lcuk facepalms21:47
lcukinfact, its a double facepalm21:47
lcukwith glasses removed21:48
lcukand a heavy sigh21:48
qwerty12_N8002 ascii facepalms coming up, no pastebin!21:48
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* lcuk watches qwerty get banned for flooding21:48
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timelesshello cruel world21:52
timelessi heard a rumor there's a fremantle sdk <something>21:52
Stslapevening timeless21:52
timelesswhat kind of something is it?21:52
Stslaptimeless: second pre-alpha21:52
timelessand how do i get that something?21:52
timelesshow do i get the first pre-alpha?21:52
Stslap#  First pre-alpha SDK, first report on API changes and beginning of weekly releases. Suitable for platform development only. December 2008.21:53
Stslap# Second pre-alpha SDK with Media Application Framework and more new platform components around January 2009.21:53
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RST38hSorry, Sts21:53
Stslapbut yes, i feel like a ztzzz atm21:54
timelessstslap: right, so how do i get alpha pre 1?21:54
timelesscan i use that to get pre1?21:55
timelessi don't want pre221:55
Stslapthat's the pre-alpha we got, pre2 isn't out yet21:55
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Stslapwe're eagerly waiting though21:56
timelessso i'm *about* to run out of time21:56
johnxhuh? run out of time for what now?21:56
qwerty12_N800Even though you're timeless?21:56
timelessimagine you want to catalog each version of the sdk21:56
lcuknokia has a pre?21:56
lcuki thought that was palm21:56
timelessonly has21:56
timelessbut it had:21:57
timelesswhich means there's no way for me to get older versions of 5.021:57
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timelessbecause they're not kept anywhere21:57
johnxah. a noble goal21:58
johnxbest of luck21:58
johnxhuh...and appears to have stopped indexing that21:59
timelessrobots.txt is powerful21:59
johnxsome day ~1995 - 20xx will be a spectacular set of blank pages in lots of history books22:00
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johnx"what were they doing then?" "oh, probably just watching TV."22:01
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lcukdigital dark ages is real johnx22:01
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lcukpeople have nothing to show for the last 5 years22:01
* qwerty12_N800 resents that. At least I use my tablet when sitting on my seat.22:01
johnxonly way to avoid it is to keep your own data online :)22:01
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johnxwhat will be most unfortunate is the lack of preserved copies of the news/blogs22:02
johnxalready I'm having to do coordinated attacks on google cache / just to show people articles from a couple years ago22:03
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GeneralAntillesI like that I can't access the archives of the blog my friends and I kept in high school because the domain is owned by a squatter now.22:04
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lcukjohnx, technically now its both easier and more difficult22:04
timelessyeah, i need to poison so my stuff will survive22:04
lcukstuff that i knew i could go to the library and lookup is on the whole available online (sometimes behind secure walls, but its there)22:04
johnxto be an archaeologist in 100 years will be quite insane22:05
johnx"writing emulation software based on analysis of partially damaged binaries, 101"22:06
lcukthat problem already exists22:07
lcukthe rosetta stones are *ahem* key to that22:07
johnxheh...looking at the same software compiled for a different OS?22:07
lcukno, languages in general22:07
lcukthe scaryest thing will be random pieces of printout found in the dig and trying to work out the programs functionality and purpose from that single page fragment22:08
lcukand evading SCOs robot descendents while you are at it22:08
johnxwe'll have emulators on emulators on emulators :)22:08
johnxjust to try and open some 16 year old's poetry in word 6.0 .doc format22:09
lcukrunning xephyr in scratchbox in linux in vmware in windows..22:09
lcukheh i dug out my cv a couple of months ago and it was in amipro format i think22:10
johnxI really do wonder how long NAND will actually last22:10
johnxretaining data I mean22:10
* qwerty12_N800 wonders how much the age field was updated by :p22:10
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dieb_hi. I can't manage to get maemo-select-menu-location working22:11
lcukwell qwerty, heres the filename CV_gary_birkett_v4_2008.doc22:11
qwerty12_N800lcuk, hehe :P22:11
dieb_I placed the .desktop file on /usr/share/applications/hildon and I am calling it manually and doesn't show anything on the device22:11
dieb_any tips?22:11
* lcuk has only ever needed cv 4 times in his life :)22:11
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lcukdieb_, you dont call the .desktop file22:12
lcukyou call the binary or script22:12
lcukif the .desktop references an osso service that must also be setup correctly22:12
dieb_lcuk, sorry, i wrote wrong22:12
lcukand the binary should register itself22:12
qwerty12_N800dieb_, How are you invoking it?22:12
* lcuk puts on his wizard hat22:12
qwerty12_N800lcuk, not needed for ...-location22:12
dieb_I'm calling maemo-select-menu-location mydesktop.desktop22:12
lcukahhh didnt see the first bit22:13
dieb_lcuk,  ;P22:13
lcukdid i get the rest right though? :D22:13
qwerty12_N800dieb_, running as root?22:13
dieb_qwerty12_N800, yes, as root or as user, both do not work22:13
dieb_that .desktop just has Name, Exec, Type and Comment22:14
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dieb_lcuk, some light please ;~22:17
radicI need a how to about compiling and booting a new kernel for the N80022:17
dieb_qwerty12_N800, hi ?22:20
johnxradic, for n8x0?22:20
radicjohnx: yes22:21
qwerty12_N800dieb_, I don't know :). I just ran it on a already installed desktop file fine & I've used it successfully in all my postinsts before :)22:21
dieb_not good (for me)22:22
radicjohnx: have you ruby on your N8x0?22:22
johnxradic, I don't22:22
dieb_qwerty12_N800, maybe my .desktop is invalid22:22
dieb_is there any ref?22:22
dieb_found it, nvm22:22
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* johnx is having fun with remedial regexps22:26
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dieb_qwerty12_N800, does it require an icon ?22:27
qwerty12_N800dieb_, shouldn't do22:28
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qwerty12_N800If you can pastebin the desktop file, I can try it over here22:28
JaffaX-Fade: what version of mediawiki are we using?22:29
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dieb_qwerty12_N800, damn22:32
dieb_the problem was application and not Application22:32
qwerty12_N800Case sensivity - always an annoyance :)22:32
dieb_sorry about the time waste ;P22:32
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johnxdieb_, no worries. i ask dumb questions all the time and they haven't kicked me out yet :)22:35
dieb_johnx, glad to hear that22:36
dieb_qwerty12_N800, after my tries22:39
dieb_the menu has lots of dup items22:39
dieb_how can I erase them ? ;p22:39
StslapGeneralAntilles: trying to type your MAC? ;)22:39
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qwerty12_N800dieb_, no idea :/22:41
johnxcertainly looks that way :)22:41
dieb_maybe control panel22:41
dieb_yay! thats it22:41
Stskeepiejohnx: we need to look at control panel too22:42
dieb_wtf, I can't remove apps22:42
lcukdieb_ it sounds like you have made your n810 die_22:42
dieb_lcuk, :/22:43
johnxStskeepie, yeah. why do people have to fiddle with settings? why can't the defaults be good enough for them?22:43
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lcukbecause we can22:43
* Stskeepie honestly never looked at hildon control panel22:43
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Stskeepiedoes it take python applets?22:43
JaffaX-Fade: ping (another extension would be good: )22:43
qwerty12_N800Stskeepie, think it's C only...22:44
Stskeepieqwerty12_N800: we have to change that :P22:44
johnxgeep O_o22:44
Stskeepiethere's no real good reason why it shouldn't be just another personal menu like thing.22:44
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johnxin fact, if the menu weren't so cramped or if we had a different launcher, there's no reason it couldn't be *part* of the main menu22:45
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smackpotatoas to settings, if it ant broke your not trying22:46
radicjohnx: where are the kernel-modules located in OS2008?22:47
johnxdieb_, look for .desktop files that were created under /usr/share/applications/hildon22:47
johnxradic, /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/$(uname -r)22:47
dieb_that's the problem22:47
dieb_johnx, no new .desktop files22:48
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johnxthen you need to somehow refresh the menu to reflect that22:48
dieb_I have 5 copies of my menu item22:48
dieb_and one file22:48
johnxbut I don't remember the command22:48
johnxmumble-buzz-update or somesuch22:48
johnx<- not helpful right now, sorry22:48
johnxqwerty12_N800, one day your memory will go too :P22:49
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qwerty12_N800hehe, jealousy in the old isn't a nice touch :P22:50
dieb_removed the .desktop and update-desktop-database22:50
johnxqwerty12_N800, what was I jealous about again? and where the hell are my teeth?22:50
dieb_i tried adding it again22:51
radicjohnx: is the USB-support compiled in the kernel?22:51
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dieb_all 7 items got back to the menu22:51
qwerty12_N800johnx, :P22:51
qwerty12_N800lol :/22:51
johnxradic, the modules g_file_storage and g_serial contain much of the USB support. You should base your new configuration off of the old config file22:52
radicjohnx: thx22:52
radicjohnx: I have problemes withe a USB-hub that dosn't work22:53
* lardman curses debian packaging and hits the sack22:53
lardmannight all22:53
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radicjohnx: I thougth a new kernel will help22:53
johnx'night lardman|gone22:53
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qwerty12_N800radic, you may as well try disabling CONFIG_USB_OTG_WHITELIST22:54
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zecrazytuxwhat is responsible for "n810 keyboard tip & tricks" under maemo ? that ain't related to the keymap, is it ? is that hildon-input-method ?22:55
GeneralAntillesStskeepie, nah, another serial. ;)22:56
StskeepieGeneralAntilles: did you see quim's response to firmware images btw?22:57
johnxah right! I should finish that list (!!)22:58
Stskeepieno sleep for johnx22:58
johnxsorry? 'sleep'? Is that some Swedish word?22:58
r2d2rogersStskeepie: no worries, how's the paper going?22:59
Stskeepier2d2rogers: 'When the centralized management suggests a plausible power saving measure to be deployed and such a power measure is deployed' ..22:59
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* qwerty12_N800 pre-orders the book23:00
johnxqwerty12_N800, I hear it has a twist ending. won't spoil it though23:00
* qwerty12_N800 takes johnx's teeth as punishment 23:01
johnxnof my teef!23:01
* johnx tells qwerty12_N800's mom :P23:02
* qwerty12_N800 returns the teeth :(23:03
johnxthis'd be your third grand theft dentures, wouldn't it?23:03
qwerty12_N800Yes :(. Dunno how I keep getting caught :(23:03
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lcukif i wanted to setup a webserver in linux can i get it talking to a custom c library? (ie for certain types of files call into libliqbase or some derivative executed on server) ?23:06
Stskeepielcuk: CGI? :P23:06
lcukmiami or new york?23:06
qwerty12_N800east london23:06
johnxlcuk, CGI = just have it run some binary23:07
lcuki thought cgi was something different23:07
lcuk:) thats great23:07
lcukif i upgraded my server box on does it just become another machien i can ssh into?23:07
johnxhuh? I dunno what kind of hosting plan you have23:08
johnxso "it depends"23:08
lcukunimportant ill pay what i have to if i have to23:08
lcukas long as i can do that23:08
lcukif i setup my old craptop as a headless box, is it apache that i install?23:09
johnxyeah, apache would be fine23:09
lcuk:) cool, cos i dont wanna have to reinvent everything ;)23:10
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johnxlighttpd is good too and faster and less stuff to *$&% around with23:10
lcuki want/need databases and scalability though23:10
johnxit scales. lots of big sites running it, and yes, on most distros it's relatively easy to setup with sqlite or mysql23:11
lcukok, ill go with mysql for the real db, sqlite has scared me by being the only sql so far thats case sensitive23:11
johnxand lighttpd has a manageable config file. mucking about in apache is a little daunting at first23:12
lcukwhat scripting can i do in light?23:12
johnxI mean, the config files are *clean* and they make sense, but there's just... a lot of them23:12
RST38hlcuk: please please please do not make liqbase depend on mysql23:12
lcukor is that configurable/installable?23:12
lcukRST38h, this is the server app23:12
lcuknothing to do with client side :)23:12
johnxlcuk, you can have it run arbitrary scripts23:13
RST38hlcuk: no problem then =)23:13
lcukRST38h, client side sqlite is the only feasible alternative23:13
lcukjohnx, i meant which languages23:13
RST38hBtw, anyone knows a how-to on making php scripts access files not available for direct download via http?23:13
RST38hi.e. apache should not be able to access them but php scripts should23:14
johnxRST38h, doesn't the php script run with apache's permissions?23:14
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RST38hjohnx: it does23:14
lcukRST38h, same way as other things isnt it, store them in parent folders to the one needed23:14
RST38hthat is the whole problem23:14
lcukie webserver is www23:14
lcukdatabase is still in your workspace but in "../data/mydatabase.sq"23:15
RST38hlcuk: Won't work as apache can't access these files and php runs with apache permissions23:15
GeneralAntillesStskeepie, yes.23:15
GeneralAntillesAlso: Woo! USB Model M.23:15
lcukpermissions like that are different to publically accessible folders23:15
lcukthe permissions apache has over the file system can be different to the set of visible folders being server23:16
lcukbut im going off very old historical recolections23:17
RST38hI do not think so23:17
johnxgenerally in unix, servers are locked into a chroot jail23:17
RST38hIs there some howto I can read on this?23:17
StskeepieGeneralAntilles: any suggestions of strategies for wishlist? we're thinking of doing "definately needed for initial image" "would be useful as part of firmware, but not required, to bring Mer/N8x0 experience close to the Maemo/N8x0" "could be useful for user to be able to download from a Nokia repository".. or something23:17
johnxRST38h, there is some exploit code :)23:17
RST38hjohnx: Not really interested in exploits, just need to do a mechanism for safe software distribution23:18
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lcukRST38h, on my webhost using ftp i can create a folder "privatebinaries".  in php when i am running it, i can enumerate that folder.  a web user cannot access that folders contents generically23:21
lcukanother example, i have a stats/ folder on my webserver.  it accesses the logs/ folder which is nowhere to be seen23:22
RST38hlcuk: I have got a plain BSD machine with shell access23:22
RST38hso, basically, I need to figure out how to do it with permissions23:22
lcukstore your binaries away from webroot giving it apache user access rights23:22
RST38hinteresting idea23:23
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RST38hbut isn't this exploitable?23:23
lcukhow? if the user cannot even access or touch the files directly?23:23
lcukif you make a bad script, sure its doable23:23
RST38hyea, but I am more cncerned about some specially designed URL23:24
RST38hthat leads web server to my "safe" directory23:24
RST38hlemme try23:24
lcuksanitize your inputs then :) download.php?file=../pr0n/clowns/midgets.avi23:24
RST38hurgh! was that a direct quote? =)23:25
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lcukok, should i tackle styling information first, or user input?23:27
johnxDoes the 770 need any non-redistributable firmware besides the wifi firmware?23:27
johnxI can never remember if it needed something for bluetooth or not...23:28
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Stskeepiejohnx: i think there's a bc4fw.bin or something23:30
r2d2rogersjohnx: Ibrf6150fw.bin23:30
r2d2rogersjohnx: errr  brf6150fw.bin23:30
johnxah, great23:30
johnxwell, not great, but good to know :)23:31
Stskeepier2d2rogers: , we're trying to lurk 770 under this too :P23:31
r2d2rogersvery nice23:33
johnxaaah, forgot all about DSP tasks23:33
johnxa whole new world of fun23:33
r2d2rogersI've been hunting around on the bluetooth and wifi areas since sapwood is fixed23:33
r2d2rogersAh yeah23:33
r2d2rogersI'd love to have the sound work again ;)23:33
johnxI think someone is working on a non-dsp based alsa driver23:34
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r2d2rogersIs there any movement on trying to document/give credit/make known the efforts various people in the maemo community are active in?23:36
Stskeepiewe don't have mer karma yet if that's what you're asking :)23:37
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Stskeepier2d2rogers: btw, , read through/send me a mail so we can just keep track of people :) (mainly to put on the participants list)23:38
Stskeepiehopefully we'll be able to give credit where credit is due using the sprints and the jaiku microblogs :P23:39
r2d2rogersStskeepie: got a partly done email in drafts right now... interrupted...23:41
johnxdoes 770 have bme?23:41
Stskeepiejohnx: think so23:42
r2d2rogersrandom google indicates yes23:42
RST38hlcuk: No, this does not work23:42
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RST38hlcuk: can't read such a file23:42
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johnxRST38h, you can't change the webserver config in any way?23:43
arocsHi ...23:43
johnxhi arocs23:43
lcukthe principle does work RST38h im sorry if your specific doesnt :$ i dont know any details to help more than i have im afraid23:43
arocsYesterday i saw that there is a new "distro" for N800 called MER ... What stage is this distro ?23:44
johnxIIRC, the idea is keep it under the webroot, but have the webserver deny direct access to that directory to someone requesting it23:44
radicqwerty12_N800: thx23:44
Stskeepiearocs: for instance :)23:44
johnxis the DSP task loader closed?23:44
Stskeepiejohnx: osso-dsp-loader is open AFAIK23:44
arocsNow i am installing it to my internal sd ....23:45
Stskeepiearocs: it runs on 770, n8x0, zaurus, x8623:45
arocsLet's see ...23:45
johnxarocs, just starting to become interesting to people interested in testing or helping develop23:45
arocsIt is a very interesing project ... i think ...23:45
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RST38hjohnx: I can but would prefer not to23:46
RST38hjohnx: the other admin has got certain behavioral problems I would not like to encounter with23:46
johnxRST38h, been a long time since I maintained a web server, but I can't think of any other way to do it...which *doesn't* mean it can't be done23:47
RST38hoh I am sure it can be done, people do it all the time23:47
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johnxRST38h, and it's done by configuring a path in the config, not some magic permissions23:48
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johnx(80% assuredness factor) :)23:48
arocsSound is working in MER?23:48
johnxarocs, nope :)23:48
Stskeepiearocs: we cannot distribute firmwares with closed source things just yet, but we are in good progress of discussing with Nokia on a way to do it :)23:49
Stskeepiearocs: Mer, btw :)23:49
arocsSounds good23:49 couldn't resolved inside scratchbox23:49
radic/etc/resolve.conf points to the correct DNS-server23:50
timelE61irAdic: /etc/nsswitch.conf + /etc/resolv.conf23:50
qwerty12_N800radic, don't make a new target, DIABLO_ARMEL  o ks fine23:50
johnxprelimery wishlist -
timelE61iIf nsswitch doesn't say hosts: files dns23:50
timelE61iResolv is ignored23:50
arocsUmm .. i have installed mer ... starting .... ;)23:51
Stskeepiearocs: hehe, good luck, hope you installed bootmenu and such :P23:52
arocsyes , with bootmenu23:52
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Stskeepiejohnx: think i'll edit it a bit tomorrow, as there could be some of the closed source parts of Nokia that could be nice to include23:52
Stskeepiei thought gizmo was OSS; heh23:52
radicqwerty12_N800: too late23:53
r2d2rogersarocs: 0.6?23:53
radictimelE61i: the line is included, but it dosn't works23:53
arocsI have yes ...23:53
r2d2rogersarocs: what tablet?23:54
arocsNow i am in the Choose device name screen proccess23:54
Stskeepiearocs: woo :) at least it boots23:54
arocsFor now it is working ... slow but working23:54
r2d2rogersCool! I know the 770 needs a newer image for that part23:54
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Stskeepiearocs: yeah, our omapfb driver isn't that fast just yet :)23:55
* lcuk adds more bacon to it23:56
lcuki wonder if thats the magic ingredient in wd40: bacon grease23:56
arocsI have connectted to my home wifi router ... that is good start ... !!!23:56
* timelE61i frowns23:57
timelE61isorry, i need to order tickets for fosdem23:57
lcukwhen is it?23:57
arocsWhat i see is that it is only maemopad application installed ... ins't it23:57
* lcuk might try to do23:57
StskeepietimelE61i: to see fremantle on a beagleboard? ;)23:58
Stskeepiearocs: yes, initial image, next image at 1st february should include an application manager23:58
Stskeepiearocs: you can ssh into your tablet over wifi23:58
Stskeepieand use apt-get23:58
lcukouchy, i might not have anything ready by then23:58
Stskeepieusername root and password what you chose in installer :)23:59
arocsSo it is possible to install programs .. .?23:59
Stskeepieapt-get zenity for instance :)23:59
Stskeepieapt-get install midori, i mean23:59

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