IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2009-01-20

Stskeepsjaunty, we're not overriding that00:00
zenvoidhmmm... what toolchain is used for scratchbox?00:00
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Stskeepshttp://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/arm-linux-cs2008q3-72-libtool2_1.0.11_i386.deb00:01
zenvoidok00:01
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Stskeepsbuilder is set up in a similar fashion as written on the wiki, but uses EABI qemu instead00:01
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MaceN800hm00:02
MaceN800going to install kubuntu on my macbook00:02
* zenvoid is downloading the toolchain :)00:02
Stskeepszenvoid: and we have a devkit which provides updated versions of some things00:02
Stskeepszenvoid: not a sb2 toolchain just for good measure :P00:02
opengeekv2hey guys i've posted some mockups based on te wazd ones take a look please00:03
opengeekv2opengeek.wordpress.com/maemomer-ui-mockup00:04
Stskeepsopengeekv2: maybe, but it makes the selection one tap longer00:05
Stskeepsor not..00:05
Stskeepsopengeekv2: possible00:05
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opengeekv2what is the seleccion tap?00:05
Stskeepsexcept it might be a nasty performance hit to shift your stuff 60 pixels down00:05
Stskeepsopengeekv2: as in, how many touches it takes to do something :)00:06
Stskeepsbut i was wrong about that00:06
opengeekv2the same as befor00:06
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opengeekv2 but the menus not cover the boddy of the app excessively00:07
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zenvoidopengeekv2: ah, you mean that when you tap the app icon, the menubar will appear in the window, right?00:08
opengeekv2look the first image00:08
opengeekv2you see how thw menu will be opened if we tho the things in the traditional way00:09
zenvoidopengeekv2: second try: when you tap on the menu buton at the center, it appears a title+menu bar (?)00:09
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opengeekv2yes that's the idea00:09
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opengeekv2but tittle could be removed if people gets used to ignore it00:10
opengeekv2these mockup's are not at the levol of wazd ones but i think the idea is good expressed no?00:11
Stskeepsopengeekv2: well, it's an interesting idea, i'm just worried about the amount of shifting needed :)00:12
zenvoidopengeekv2: :D yes, thanks for sharing your thoughts00:12
zenvoidit will require changes to gtk, I think...00:13
zenvoidcould be difficult to implement00:14
opengeekv2i supose that is easy to imagine things without knowing the difficult to implement this things00:14
Stskeepsyeah00:14
zenvoid... but it is not bad idea00:14
opengeekv2i want to finish my degreee (and i've done only 4 months)00:15
zenvoidof course it is easier to use maemo menus, because they are already done :-)00:15
Stskeepsopengeekv2: what degree are you taking btw?00:15
Stskeepscomputer science?00:15
opengeekv2yes00:17
opengeekv2in barcelona00:17
Stskeepsalright00:17
zenvoidstarted this year?00:17
opengeekv2yes00:17
Stskeepsi have to start my thesis in 2 weeks, heh00:17
Stskeeps(masters)00:18
opengeekv2i'm fresh meat or "carne de cañon"00:18
Stskeepshehe00:18
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opengeekv2it means tha in 6/7 years i'll be es professional as you XD00:18
opengeekv2great00:19
Stskeepsmeh. i started coding at 6 ;)00:19
opengeekv2yes as mozart playing piano00:20
opengeekv2with was age oyu wrote your first operating system XD00:21
Stskeepsnah, i'm not that good. the benefit of a computer science degree is that you realize there's people who are a lot smarter than you, and how to make them think your idea was their idea ;)00:21
Stskeeps(and hence execute it in practice)00:21
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opengeekv2ammm00:22
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Stskeepsor something. either way, it's worth it :P00:23
zenvoid_shit... lost connection00:23
zenvoid_my previous zenvoid is still connected :P00:23
Stskeepshehe00:23
zenvoid_i'll try to kick him :)00:24
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opengeekv2hey guys i'm too sleepy now00:25
Stskeepsgnite00:25
* Stskeeps just had some coffee :P00:25
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opengeekv2how many stskeeps are there (they apoear with deifferent colours)00:25
Stskeepserr. depends00:26
Stskeepsn800 is when i'm mobile on my tablet00:26
Stskeepslaptop is on my laptop, and stskeeps is my server :P00:26
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opengeekv2ohh ok00:27
zenvoid_opengeekv2: tried to record those seagulls?00:27
* Stskeeps listens to the half-snow-half-rain outside00:27
opengeekv2not my mum is sick (grioe intestinal) and I have to stay at home00:27
opengeekv2cuidando de ella00:28
zenvoid_opengeekv2: ok00:28
zenvoid_spangish :-)00:28
opengeekv2yes XD00:28
zenvoid_spanglish00:28
opengeekv2gnite everybody00:28
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Stskeepsoh boy. primary school teacher adding you on facebook.00:29
moontigerlol00:29
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zenvoid_sometimes I read my english phrases in the and I don't ever understand myself00:29
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Stskeepsfair enough, let her see that i was one of the only of her students who made it to university :P00:30
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Stskeepswith a brilliant picture of me smoking, drinking at a festival, and being dirty and sunburnt.00:30
moontigerwhat festival?00:30
Stskeepswww.roskilde-festival.dk in this case :P00:30
andre__haha00:31
Stskeepshttp://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/fb.JPG :>00:31
* Stskeeps loves facebook for freaking out old teachers and such.00:31
moontigerhaha nice00:32
moontiger:)00:32
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fireun"remember that one time, you gave me an F!?"00:32
moontigerhey Stskeeps ... do you do any work on the rotation support for the n810?00:35
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Stskeepsmoontiger: nop. in mer we have rotation issues now too :P i think jott did the rotation support00:35
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moontigerok ... i was wondering if it is compatible with the new SSU stuff that came out a week or two ago00:36
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Stskeepsi'm not sure, didn't use it myself so :P00:37
GeneralAntillesIt's compatible, I dunno if anybody has compiled binaries, though.00:37
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qwerty12_N800jott updated his page.00:38
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Stskeepsb-man: any new release of installer btw?00:38
* Stskeeps goes test out pygtk and py-hildon on mer00:39
b-mannot yet, i am still doing some debuging (and i was busy studying for a semester exam ;p)00:39
Stskeepshehe00:40
Stskeepsi have a human computer interaction exam in 34 hours or so00:40
Stskeepsguess what's more funny, reading about it, or performing it00:40
b-manpreforming for it? :)00:41
Stskeepshehe00:42
Stskeepsyeah :P00:42
b-manlol00:42
* b-man wishes he did not suck at history00:42
Stskeepshistory is okay if you're the kind of kid who was allowed to sit and watch the evening news with parents from he was 500:43
Stskeepsyou collect a bunch of info through there :P00:43
b-man(studying about post-ww2)00:43
b-manhehe00:44
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cyberdoraStskeeps, could you help me install deblet on N770?00:46
moontigerthnx Stskeeps ... what is his page address?00:46
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Stskeepshttp://sse2.net/rotate/00:47
moontigerthnx :)00:47
moontigerbbl00:47
Stskeepscyberdora: most work is being done in Mer for 770 really, deblet's succesor00:47
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b-man|gentoo|n80grr00:48
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* b-man|gentoo|n80 wishes xchat would let him change to b-man|gentoo|n80000:49
Stskeepsnickname length00:49
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b-man|gentooyeah :p00:49
* b-man|gentoo starts installing applications in gentoo :)00:51
tank-manyou mean compiling?00:52
cyberdoraok, thanks :)00:52
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b-man|gentooshure :p00:52
* b-man|gentoo wishes emerge --sync would not take so long00:53
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lcukb-man|gentoo, if you think you got it bad, ive gotta write the programs before i can emerge them00:55
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* Stskeeps notes osso python package is weird00:56
b-gentoolcuk: hehe00:56
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GeneralAntilleshttps://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3961#c200:58
GeneralAntillesI'm tempted to respond: "What, all 6 of them?"00:59
Stskeepswtf :P00:59
b-gentoolol00:59
Stskeepshis bug report is weird01:00
GeneralAntillesHe's way out of the loop for managing to be shouting everywhere all the time.01:00
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, don't get me started.01:00
GeneralAntillesALL of his bug reports are weird.01:00
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GeneralAntillesand they _all_ JUST manage not to cross the line into immediate invalidity.01:00
GeneralAntillesThey're _just_ _barely_ cogent enough that I have to actually treat them like real reports.01:01
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i'd be tempted to suggest you to write "Mer will support N810W", but i'm not sure that's a direction you should send him in :P01:01
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, you don't want him anywhere near your project.01:01
Stskeepsexactly.01:01
b-gentoolol x100001:01
b-gentooXD01:01
GeneralAntillesTriaging a single one of his reports takes about as much time and effort as triaging 10 or 11 of anybody else's.01:01
Stskeepsi'm just glad i'm having one of my bug reports taken fairly seriously atm01:02
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Stskeepsoh boy.01:05
Stskeepsand of course pymaemo has changed the semantics of import01:06
Stskeepshttps://garage.maemo.org/svn/pymaemo/packages/python/branches/chinook/debian/patches/04-import.patch01:06
Stskeepswhich means the bindings they use is of course built for that specific hack01:06
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* b-gentoo wonders if there is a graphical package manager for gentoo such as synaptic01:13
Stskeepsdoubt it :P01:14
Stskeepsit's not a package system, it builds everything on tablet :P01:14
b-gentoohmm01:14
* b-gentoo notices "it is frequently seen as the best software management tool available for Linux" and laughs01:17
Stskeepsmaybe01:17
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* b-gentoo would be concerned about memory consumsion and speed01:20
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Stskeepswhen compiled its probably very optimized, though01:21
b-gentoogood point01:21
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lcukdamn damn damn i have "lost" a module of code01:25
Proteousdid you check around in your bellybutton lint?01:26
lcukit was just some encoded thoughts i had and they have been engulfed by my archives (it wasnt important or complete at the time so was not given a real name). i used to use .zip and windows can search it natively, but now in linux they are stored as .tar.gz and windows doesnt understand it natively to search01:27
lcuk\o/ huzzzzzah01:29
* lcuk randomly extracted a few breakpoints and it found it01:30
b-gentoosweet!!! emerge --synk is finally done!01:33
lcukthat was quick01:33
b-gentooquick?01:33
b-gentoo0_o01:33
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* b-gentoo is getting frustrated by emerge01:41
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StsN800qt  and kde will take most of your teens to compile01:43
lcukheh01:44
b-gentoolol01:44
b-gentooemerge keeps failing though :p01:44
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lcukb-gentoo, then expect to be somewhere in your 40s01:45
b-gentoolol XD01:45
lcukgah my fingers are too cold to code01:45
* lcuk wants a trained monkey01:45
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b-gentooemerge is stating "!!! All ebuilds that could satisfy "app-office/gnumeric" have been masked.; !!! One of the following masked packages is required to complete your request: - app-office/gnumeric-1.8.3 (masked by: missing keyword)" :P01:46
b-gentoobut for every package01:47
b-gentoolcuk: go to petco :)01:48
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lcuk:) the_user_formally_known_as_b-gentoo no, but i keep looking out for people with the right coding skills :)01:52
FireFoxhehe01:53
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JaffaStskeeps: oh? you don't think it was x86_64 issues?01:56
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StsN800Jaffa, no, i remember johnx having similar issue01:57
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StsN800spooky dbus problem or something01:57
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JaffaSince it's a chroot, with its own 32-bit libraries, x86_64 host might not be an issue. So you might be right.01:58
StsN800vdi or just compiling works fine01:58
StsN800or physical machine :)01:58
StsN800but if you figure out what goes wrong im most interested02:00
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StsN800i suspect bind /tmp makes it collide with your main system dbus02:01
StsN800perhaps only bind /tmp/.X11-unix02:01
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JaffaStsN800: that sounds plausible.02:05
StsN800i'd be happy if that solves it:P but you might have to /etc/init.d/dbus start in chroot02:06
JaffaAs soon as this machine is working, I'll give it a go02:09
StsN800k02:10
StsN800im off to bed02:10
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FireFoxg'night02:11
* FireFox starts bugging people over at #gentoo02:12
StsN800FireFox, be aware cos its unofficial port02:13
StsN800not sure armel eabi was supported before02:13
FireFoxok02:14
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fauxmightslonopotamus, ping02:19
lcukquick q: given this folder :: how do i make that apt-getable ?02:32
lcukhttp://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/s/sqlite3/02:32
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lcukie, whats the deb line :$02:32
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lcuknooooooooooo it wants to upgrade my compiler :'( gcc-4.2-base libgcc1 libsqlite3-dev libsqlite3-002:36
lcuk:D should i02:36
FireFoxshure02:36
* lcuk does what the internet says02:38
lcukif this puts me back months of dev time now you are in for it:P02:38
lcuktbh though, is there anything good in gcc402:38
FireFoxhehe02:38
derfgcc4 vs. gcc3? God yes.02:39
neatojonesyou can usually install more than one compiler and chose which one you want to use02:39
JaffaStskeeps: you were right. It was a /tmp bind mount problem. Instructions on Mer_Blueprint for chroot updated. I can see a Mer desktop :-)02:42
lcukarghhhh no dont want multiple, that will hurt my brain02:42
lcukis gcc4 working nicely or am i expected to file bugs?02:42
lcukor have to make drastic changes to code?02:42
lcuksince it is in the fremantle branch :$02:43
lcuki only want the new sqlite02:43
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* Jaffa plays with the kinetic scrolling Fremantle goodness in mer02:44
JaffaNice.02:44
Jaffa(for example, start Mer; start MaemoPad; click File > Save; change folder, drag up and down; watch bouncing kineticness)02:44
dick-richardsonJaffa, you doing that on an n810?02:45
lcukis it smooth though?02:45
JaffaNo, on x86 at the moment02:45
dick-richardsonkk02:45
Jaffalcuk: who knows, I've not tried mer on my tablet yet02:45
* Jaffa will probably try and do Hildon App Manager for it tomorrow. See if we get the shiny scrolling for free in there02:46
lcuk:)02:46
neatojonesI loaded mer on my N810 but couldn't get past the wizard because my keyboard didn't work.02:46
dick-richardsonany wild speculation on which cell carriers would be able to support the next hardware?02:46
JaffaAny which support HSPA.02:46
neatojonesany idea on how to get around it?02:46
dick-richardsonJaffa, thanks :)02:47
StsN800neatojones, HIM ought to work02:47
StsN800click text field02:47
neatojonesI did, no keyboard popped up and the keyboard on the device didn't do anything02:47
neatojonesI tried changing the xmodmap from chroot and still got no response02:48
StsN800try harder, but then again it might take time for him to come up02:48
dick-richardsonso probably not verizon...evdo != hspa02:48
neatojonesI expect that once I get into the hildon, I can use the virtual keyboard02:48
StsN800i dont have n810 so02:49
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neatojonesdoes the virtual keyboard pop up for you within a few minutes?02:49
* FireFox is discusted when people over at #gentoo keep refering to ubuntu as a "little newbie os"02:49
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StsN800neatojones, i think so02:50
StsN800after clicking once02:50
lcukSetting up gcc-4.2-base (4.2.1-4maemo2) ...02:50
lcukln: /usr/share/doc/gcc-4.2-base/.copyright: No such file or directory02:50
lcukdpkg: error processing gcc-4.2-base (--configure):02:50
lcuk:$ has docpurge eaten it?02:50
neatojonesI gave up on hildon because of it.  Tried removing the wizard and auto-startx packages, but then it wouldn't go past the mer splash anymore02:50
lcuksorry for scrolly but it was v short02:50
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lcukFireFox, as a noobie i wholeheartedly support their opinion02:51
neatojonesso, I tried gnome env but all I ended up with was a blank screen and a mouse.  (Same problem with XFCE)02:51
StsN800neatojones, auto-startx is good idea if you want hildon02:51
neatojoneswell, I tried using a few of the deblet packages to get around it.02:52
neatojonesno joy.:(  Thanks though STS02:52
FireFoxlcuk: shure, it is a great os for newbies but the way thay refer to it sounds a little insulting :p02:53
StsN800feel free to file a bug that n810 has troubles02:53
dick-richardsonanyone using mauku?02:53
lcukfirefox, and why not, you are grand masters at building.02:54
neatojoneswill do.02:54
neatojonesI've been hacking, trying to get around it for about a week02:54
StsN8000.6 image?02:54
neatojonesYeah02:54
StsN800which i released 2 days ago;)02:55
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neatojonesSTS: I used the tar image and the instructions from b-man on itt.  I tried the installer, but it keeps crashing.  I tried finding the problem, but my internet died all day02:56
neatojonesI actually got it several days ago02:56
StsN800k02:56
neatojonesyou posted it before you posted that you posted it...i noticed :D02:56
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neatojones(on itt anyway)02:56
StsN800mm02:56
b-manhello neatojones02:57
neatojoneshello02:57
neatojonesnow, I'm actually working on installing mamona to see if I can find something, they did that I'm missing in mer02:57
StsN800we posted new installers up to and after post so02:58
neatojonesmy keyboard works fine in mamona02:58
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neatojonesI think it was 1.7???02:58
neatojonesdoes that sound right?02:58
StsN800i think its just missing fdi on n81002:58
LinuxHack3rSo tell me...the Nokia N810...I've read that is has "up to 2GB internal memory". What's that mean? Does it have 2GB internal memory or not?02:58
neatojonesfdi?02:59
b-manneatojones; did you have any luck with ubuntu btw?02:59
neatojonesLinuxHack3r:  Yes 2GB internal memory02:59
neatojonesyeah, I got it going up until that blue screen (remind me of windows) hehe02:59
LinuxHack3rneatojones: So the "up to" basically means depending on what's installed, I suppose? So when mine arrives in the mail...how much should be free?03:00
neatojonesI can't tell if nautilus is running03:00
LinuxHack3rTrying to figure out if I should try and find a card before it arrives.03:00
lcukfscking docpurge03:00
neatojonesLinuxHack3r: about 400MB on the internal is left.  You can remove the maps and get the full 2GB if you don't plan on using the map app pre installed03:00
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b-manneatojones: blue screen, in ubuntu?!? 0_o lol XD03:01
LinuxHack3rneatojones: the full 2GB? What about the os?03:01
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neatojonesLInuxHack3r:  The os is on another drive that is also internal but slightly different03:01
StsN800256 mb internal flash, 2gb internal mmc03:01
LinuxHack3rneatojones: Oh....ok.03:02
neatojonesb-man:  Not sure if it's gnome or not.  It's the same thing if I install xfce.  I think it might be some failsafe env or somthing03:02
neatojonesIt would be like a background minus any wallpaper with a cursor that is moveable.03:02
neatojonesno panels.  No login.03:03
neatojonesno text...nothing03:03
neatojonesI tried to figure out how to get the system to log, but it seems like ubuntu has confusing documentation about this03:03
neatojonesno one could agree about how to do it in intrepid03:04
neatojonesso, no log:  No idea if everything is starting.  could even be a dbus problem03:04
LinuxHack3rneatojones: So I read somewhere that it supports up to an 8GB card. Is the really the max?03:05
neatojonesLH: I'm using an 8GB.  No idea if larger works...but I think they ought to.03:05
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neatojonesLH: 8GB is about the largest most people reasonable afford right now anyway03:06
LinuxHack3rneatojones: I'm newegging...amazon...I really cannot find many. I can find really cheap microsd 16GB though...so I think they make micro to mini adapters. Would that work right?03:06
neatojonesLH: Besides, I've seen speed tests and it appears that the larger cards are slower.  Not sure if this is true across the board, but from the tests I saw it was.  The adaptors are the way to go.03:07
LinuxHack3rneatojones: Are you saying micro is faster than mini, or 16gb is slower than 8gb?03:08
neatojonesAnyone have any reason why I shouldn't (For today, anyway) wed my N810 to mamona.  If so, speak now or forever hold your peace?...03:08
LinuxHack3rneatojones: http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-microSDHC-CLASS-SDSDQ-8192-Package/dp/B0012Y2LLE/ref=pd_bxgy_e_img_b03:10
LinuxHack3rneatojones: http://www.amazon.com/Sandisk-MicroSD-MiniSD-Adapter-Package/dp/B000TLXCDW/ref=pd_bxgy_e_img_c03:10
neatojonesThe 16gb was slower than 4GB and 8GB03:10
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LinuxHack3rThat should do it shouldn't it? That's actually rather quite cheap. Too bad theirs a fairly large price jump to the 16gb.03:11
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neatojonesLH: My package included a normal SD adapter, mini-sd adapter, and micro-sd03:12
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LinuxHack3rneatojones: http://www.jr.com/nokia/pe/NOK_NOKIAN810/03:13
LinuxHack3rI hope my package contains the Nokia N810.03:13
neatojonesIt appears as though that is what you bought03:14
b-manneatojones: based on those problems you had with gnome/xfce, it looks like that session problem might be related to a ubuntu bug :(03:14
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neatojonesb-man:  GDM won't even load. It just stalls out.  Any idea of why that is?03:15
LinuxHack3rneatojones: Well it appears..but I've personally never even heard of Jr.com. Someone showed me the link...I think it was sisto. So if I get it for that price...I'm a happy camper. Just hope it's legit.03:15
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sistoLinuxHack3r: hi03:16
LinuxHack3rsisto: Hi there.03:16
neatojonesLH: I got a class6 8GB micro with the mini adapter included on newegg for less than 1503:16
b-manneatojones: mabe it could be a nother xserver-xorg problem03:16
LinuxHack3rsisto: http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-microSDHC-CLASS-SDSDQ-8192-Package/dp/B0012Y2LLE/ref=pd_bxgy_e_img_b03:17
LinuxHack3rhttp://www.amazon.com/Sandisk-MicroSD-MiniSD-Adapter-Package/dp/B000TLXCDW/ref=pd_bxgy_e_img_c03:17
sistoLinuxHack3r: didn't you call them to ask how long it would take to ship?03:17
neatojonesb-man:  Which is preferred:  The xserver-xorg package or the xserver-omap (or whatever it's called) from the mer repo?03:17
LinuxHack3rsisto: I actually did...he said he didn't know but there was an order placed for more. BTW, ^ Those links look like they'll work?03:17
sistowow nice price for those03:18
LinuxHack3rsisto: Is it? And will a 16Gb work? If so...how much slower would it be over th 8GB?03:19
neatojonesb-man: it is my understanding that they are equivalent packages, but the jaunty xserver-xorg is newer and with possibly more (generic) dependencies.03:19
sistono idea about the 16 gb... i was asking the same thing a couple days ago03:19
sistoI'm still wondering whether to buy an eee 901 or a n81003:20
LinuxHack3rsisto: Perhaps I'll wait until they are cheaper than dirt as well. An additional 8GB should be plenty for now. Considering the fact I'm not planning on putting music on it....03:20
b-manxserver-xomap is the same server maemo uses. xserver-xorg is a slightly different xserver03:20
LinuxHack3rsisto: You don't even have a n810?03:20
sistoi don't03:21
b-man(has more features)03:21
LinuxHack3rsisto: Oh...ok. So you just sold me something that you don't even know if works ;)03:21
neatojonesb-man: are you still able to load gnome?03:21
neatojones...or xfce?03:21
b-mannot atm :(03:22
b-man(i was untill i re-installed ubuntu)03:22
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LinuxHack3rneatojones: So do you have a mini or micro sd? Just wondering if they adapter card strategy affects performances...03:23
neatojonesLH: micro with mini adapter03:23
LinuxHack3rneatojones: So it works fine?03:23
neatojonesMini's cost more and probably have the same mechanics underneath03:23
neatojonesyeah03:24
neatojonesLH: works for me03:24
LinuxHack3rThen it's settled. Amazon ftw!03:24
sistoLinuxHack3r: this is the only nokia device i have: http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_1208-1977.php03:24
sistocost me 20 bucks03:24
LinuxHack3rsisto: I considered a nokia phone...never looked into the.03:24
neatojonesLH: also have a 4GB micro.  I use the 8GB for alternate OS'es and th 4GB for media and maps.  Still haven't ever filled the 403:24
LinuxHack3rDoes it really have a flashlight?03:24
sistoyes03:24
b-manneatojones: i'm guessing that it is pritty likely that it is a ubuntu janunty bug (witch i don't have any control over besides bugzilla) :(03:25
sistoit works perfectly as a phone03:25
sistoor flashlight :P03:25
LinuxHack3rneatojones: It'd be hard to unless you put movies on there. BTW...if I encode a movie, basically at 800x480, mp4 or avi, will it play smoothly?03:25
LinuxHack3rsisto: Awesome.03:25
neatojonesLH: encoded slightly lower than that.  It played perfectly.03:26
LinuxHack3rneatojones: What's that mean? 800x479?03:26
neatojonesLH: Never done 800x480/I don't think it's a common format for video03:26
LinuxHack3rneatojones: Oh..it's not..you'd have to keep the aspect ratio...but it'll work...is what you're saying...right?03:27
sistoLinuxHack3r: i also have this one: http://www.gsmarena.com/i_mate_jam-963.php03:27
neatojonesLH: LIke 720x420 or something.  Yes, the aspect ration03:27
neatojonesratio*03:27
sistoLinuxHack3r: but am planning on retiring it for a n81003:27
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LinuxHack3rsisto: Cool. I can't wait for mine...it's going to be a long week or so.03:28
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LinuxHack3rOh...cool. l8r03:34
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sistoi don't really know what was so cool about those... never owned one03:35
bef0rdsisto, there was a review of somebody comparing the n8x0/maemo with the newtons, let me see if I can find it03:35
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sistobef0rd: this one? http://tabletui.wordpress.com/tag/newton/03:40
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sistoor maybe this one  http://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/n800/03:41
LinuxHack3rI always buy sandisk...is it really the best?03:41
bef0rdsisto, yeap, that one, check the http://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/n800/os2008/ os2008 review too03:42
sistobef0rd: thx03:42
sistobef0rd: looks like an interesting read03:43
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LinuxHack3rsisto: neatojones So...is there some way to sync the nokia with plaxo? I love contact management made easy.03:48
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sistogood question... i wonder whether i could sync my google contacts with the n81003:49
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sistoLinuxHack3r: btw i have no idea what plaxo is03:49
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LinuxHack3rsisto: plaxo.com....syncs my gmail...thunderbird....and a few others things' contacts.03:49
sistooh cool03:50
sistoi sync thunderbird with google using a thunderbird plugin called zindus03:50
LinuxHack3rsisto: * Checks thunderbird plugins03:50
LinuxHack3rsisto: Ah yes...I thought that looked familiar...no wonder every contact I add to Thunderbird is synced to Gmail...then added to Plaxo. If my N810 will do plaxo...I'll be set.03:51
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* sisto is watching burn notice03:53
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neatojonesMy connection still sucks...03:54
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LinuxHack3rneatojones: So the entire Os fits on 256MB?03:57
neatojonesLH: yes03:59
neatojonesLH: with room to add programs that you like03:59
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LinuxHack3rSuch as open-ssh, etc etc?04:01
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LinuxHack3rneatoHa! Battle for Wesnoth. It is a geeks device ;)04:04
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`Macehm04:42
`Maceis it possible to install ubuntu or kubuntu on a macbook04:42
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bef0rdyes04:56
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neato_jonesb-man:  Do you know how to get an arm distro to use an armel repo?04:58
b-manyes04:59
b-manjust add the repo url to /etc/apt/sorces.list, e.g. deb http://www.ports.ubuntu.com/ main univers05:00
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b-manthe system will automaticly search for debs with "armel".05:02
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neato_joneswell, mer will because it's already armel, but I'm trying to install a armel package in an arm repo05:03
neato_jonesI mean from an arm distro05:04
b-manhmm05:04
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neato_jonesit searches in binary-arm instead of binary-armel like in the mer repos and the ubuntu ports05:05
b-mandpkg --force-architecture?05:07
b-manthat might help)05:07
* b-man is installing/compiling busybox in gentoo on his n800 atm :)05:07
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neato_joneshmm.  I guess I could just install packages individually like that.05:08
b-mani think that might be the easyest way ;)05:09
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neato_jonesI was trying to find the open embedded repositories, but couldn't come up with anything on google.05:18
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b-manneato_jones: would this help?; http://mojo.handhelds.org/hasty-armv6el-vfp05:25
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neato_jonesb-man: thanks, that's what I ended up using.05:27
neato_jonesunfortunately, the two distro still don't like each other much.05:28
b-man|gentoohehe05:30
neato_jonesso, I'm working on filing a bug in mer launchpad about the failed desktop load with gnome/xfce, but I've got no idea which package to blame05:31
b-man|gentoomight be xsessions :p05:31
neato_jonesI just didn't list one...they're gonna love me\05:34
neato_jones:D05:34
neato_jonesprobably should be a bug in the actually ubuntu jaunty...05:34
neato_jonesfrom the way it sounds05:34
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`Macethis sucks05:45
`Macestupid macboook  wn'tboot with a normal bootloader05:45
`Macewon't05:45
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`Macehm05:47
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slonopotamushehe07:30
slonopotamusmaemo clock goes crazy if you change /etc/localtime07:30
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neatojoneshas anyone out there who has tried mer think it is any faster than deblet or maemo?07:54
bensonHaven't done enough to tell, really.07:54
neatojonesIt's hard for me to tell because you can't use any of the same window managers07:55
Mouseyi use maemo07:55
bensonMatchbox?07:55
bensonSame for maemo and mer, right?07:55
neatojonesI did flash mamona on to my device earlier today and it loads pages with midori much faster07:55
neatojonesyeah, I guess that's true07:55
neatojonesI never got it going on mine.07:56
neatojonesmy n810 can't get past the wizard in hildon07:56
bensonThe network connection wizard?07:56
neatojonesnope, the add user wizard07:56
neatojonesthe n810 keyboard doesn't work and the on screen keyboard never popped up07:57
bensonI had grief with the connection wizard overlapping windows so I couldn't dismiss the one underneath, which the top one was waiting on.07:57
bensonTry clicking all around the box?07:57
bensonMy TS calibration is off by ~0.4 inch at the top edge of screen.07:58
neatojoneshmm07:58
bensonSo I thought I had no onscreen keyboard for a while. But I was really missing the textbox entirely.07:58
neatojonesIll have to reinstall it07:59
neatojonesthe cursor was blinking in the box...07:59
neatojonesMaybe I'm wrong07:59
neatojonesI'll give it another go07:59
neatojonesI"m installing deblet at the moment07:59
neatojonesmaybe I ought to toss it though and redo mer07:59
bensonNot enough SD card to do both?08:00
neatojonesI heard E17 updated some packages specifically for handheld devices08:00
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neatojonesI do. I just formated it for one though08:00
neatojonesI have another card.  I just didn't want to try putting on two at one time08:00
bensonI formatted mine for pentaboot, when I started; figured I'd not run out that way.08:01
neatojonesI'm not entirely certain deblet hasn't stalled on me anyway.  Maybe I'll give 'er another shot08:01
bensonI'm using one for swap, and still have one not in use. :D08:01
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neatojonesmy modem keeps dying on me08:01
neatojonesATT is overnighting me a new one, but it's annoying because my internet keeps dying until it cools down08:02
neatojonesso, big downloads keep making it croak08:02
Macerwow.. in order to install kubuntu on a macbook. you have to install osx. run bootcamp. create what it calls a "windows" partition... reboot. hold c. boot the cd. install kubuntu. reboot. and hold alt/opt to boot the kubuntu partition08:02
Macerthere is no way to straight install it on x86 based macbooks :)08:02
Macerthat is retarded08:02
bensonPull HDD from macbook, and install it on a real computer?08:03
neatojonesCan you run the ubuntu straight from the cd?08:03
Macerneatojones: yes08:03
Macerbenson: i don't think that works08:03
Macermac boots of its internal firmware08:03
Macerwhich i'm pretty sure uses bootcamp in osx to change things like that.. it's kinda stupid08:04
neatojonesyeah, the only thing you'd need is a bootloader08:04
Macerwell.. you can't bypass bootcamp08:04
Macerand you can't control it from the boot screen08:04
Maceri'm sure you can use "t" when booting and turn it into a fw drive.. maybe doing something like that might work08:04
bensonWhat a hassle...08:05
Macerit wouldn't have been if i read up on it BEFORE trying  a straight install08:05
Macerso now i have to re-install osx :)08:05
Maceri want to wipe osx off this macbook.. osx is overrated08:05
Maceri personally hate it08:05
neatojoneswhat about a virtual server08:06
Macer?08:06
neatojonesyou can install it inside OSX08:06
Macerbecause.. i hate osx08:06
neatojoneswith virtualbox or VMWare08:06
Macerand don't want it08:06
bensonWell, if one hates OSX, one would want to be rid of it, not have it clogging resources.08:06
Macerplus.. you take a performance hit doing that08:06
bensonAnd not using it anyway.08:06
Macerthe vm would run like garbage08:06
Macernot nearly as fast as running native08:06
neatojonesyou do.  I just didn't know if you want to use it for a specific purpose like linux hacking or for everyday use08:07
Maceri'm actually wondering if i could just use osx for a moment and then wipe the osx partition later and growfs the ext3 partition08:07
neatojonesI agree08:07
Macerlinuxhacking? :) no.. i just want it for normal every day use08:07
Maceri hate osx.. it is not as good as people make it out to be08:07
bensonHe's installing kubuntu. That's not for Linux-hacking.08:08
Maceryes the underlying kernel and system is nice.. but the actual interface is incredibly lacking08:08
benson:p08:08
neatojonesI'm waiting on a new computer (saving money) and my wife won't let me install linux as the default...so I'm stuck going virtual on a slow computer08:08
Macerbenson: i like kde 4.1.x ;)08:08
Macerit's like a shitless vista08:08
neatojonesand then I also qemu into armel from my virtual ubuntu on xp08:08
bensonI hate KDE. Bad experience back with KDE 1.something, IIRC.08:08
Macer1.x? hahaha08:09
neatojonesI hate  that everything starts with K08:09
Macerwelcome to 199508:09
bensonBut GNOME keeps being annoyinger and annoyinger, so I started hating it some time ago too.08:09
MacerKDE 4.1.x is nice08:09
neatojonesI get it, KDE is Kgreat08:09
Maceri hate gtk based shit08:09
Macermostly because there seems to be inconsistency with developers08:09
neatojonesI think they're about the same these days.  Both have +'s and -'s08:09
Macersuch as.. OK and CANCEL on a lot of windows.... are swapped up08:09
bensonGTK's not bad, IMHO. I just don't like the way they chase configurability around with an ax08:09
Macersometimes on the left sometimes on the right08:10
bensonIn the name of "usability".08:10
Macerand the overall look of gtk is dated08:10
neatojonesNew theme*08:10
Macerqt looks better than gtk08:10
Macerespecially the newer stuff08:10
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Macergtk looks very mid 90s08:10
bensonAthena FTW!08:10
neatojoneseasy fix.  I agree.  Normal qt does.  But, I get so annoyed at the K everything...I just haven't ever got past it08:10
neatojonesI hated gnome when it was the same08:11
bensonathena does not look mid-90's08:11
Macerheh.. well.. it is the best i have seen so far.. and i've tried quite a bit.. well.. at least for actual real world use08:11
bensonmid-80's maybe.08:11
Proteousfuxin K, who whats that letter anyway, if k was cool cake would be spelled kake08:11
Proteousbut it's not08:11
Macernormally i'd use blackbox to be bare.. but kde 4.1.x grew on me08:11
Proteousnow Q, there is a letter I can get behind08:11
bensonIn KDE, it is!08:11
MacerProteous: haha08:11
neatojoneshaha08:11
Macersomeone already took CDE08:12
Macerbastards08:12
neatojonesdang sun and their solaris08:12
MacerQDE? i could see it08:12
Proteouslol08:12
bensonI like FVWM, especially for laptops.08:12
Maceri usually used blackbox08:12
neatojonesI think anything other than terminal is for panzies08:12
neatojones(JK)08:12
Macerhah08:13
Macerprobably.. guis are ok as long as you know how to get out of them08:13
bensonBut I'm planning to try a tiled WM on my desktop; it has the real-estate to handle it.08:13
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neatojoneswho needs stinking mice anyway08:13
Macermeaning if your gui doesn't work you should be able to fix things regardless08:13
Macerbut osx is crap08:13
Macerit just grew on yuppies .. but it's absolute garbage08:13
Macerit reminds me of gtk :)08:13
neatojonesdid you try the ubuntuforums.org?08:14
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neatojonesyou remind me of gtk ;)08:14
Maceri mean cmon.. it's supposed to be an advanced OS ... yet.. you can't change the color of the desktop icon's font?08:14
bensonO.o08:14
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bensonThat's... retarded.08:14
neatojonesyou can...you just have to pay money for a program that lets you08:14
Maceri thought so too08:14
neatojonesit's the apple way08:14
Macerexactly!08:14
Macerhahaha08:14
Macerlike changing the look requires 3rd party apps that cost money?08:15
neatojonesthey are seriously worse than MS08:15
Maceryou can't change the color of the menu at the top08:15
Macer?08:15
Macersomething like that shouldn't cost $50 from someone else08:15
bensonIsn't there a KDE on OSX project?08:15
neatojonesyeah08:15
neatojonesI tried KDE on windows the other day.08:15
Macerwow really.. does it get rid of aqua.. or whatever they call it08:15
neatojonesIt basically just lets you run KDE programs08:15
Maceroh08:16
Macerwell. that sucks haha08:16
Maceri figured it replaced the wm08:16
neatojonesI think you can drop the aqua, but it takes a lot more tampering08:16
Macerthat would seriously be awesome08:16
bensonOh, I thought they had it working to replace everything.08:16
Macerhm.. maybe i can look around08:16
Macerwhat's it based on ... kde 3 or 4?08:16
bensonOf course, you could just install *BSD and KDE, then...08:16
Maceryeah but getting 4.1.x to run in fbsd.. that sounds like a pain in the ass08:17
bensonThe whole point of OSX is to put shiny on BSD.08:17
Macerand they failed :)08:17
bensonMore pain than on OSX?08:17
Macermy g3 works great as a server still tho08:17
Maceri haven't had a monitor hooked up to it in like 4 years08:17
Macerif android gets a lot better.. i might set up my n800 as a server and see how that works out08:18
neatojoneshttp://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1027937&highlight=mac08:20
bensonAny mer devs around?08:20
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neatojonesbetter yet: http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=32808:21
neatojonesMacer: The stickies at the top of the last link I posted for you look like they have the info you are looking for08:23
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neatojonesMacer:  Check this one out too:  https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBook08:25
neatojonesjust follow the instrcutions to figure out which version of macbook you have and then click the link for instructions specific to your version.08:25
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Macerneatojones: i did that like 5 hours ago08:28
Macerall those links lead to the same instructions08:28
Macertrust me.. ive been looking around for a while now and the only way to do it is to have osx on the macbook08:28
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neatojonesso, you tried hitting c during bootup and then tab or whatever to select the ubuntu partition?08:30
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neatojonesIt looks like rEFIt is the way to go.08:33
neatojonesdid you try that too?08:33
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neatojonesbenson: in which direction was the touch off?08:36
neatojoneswhere should I touch?08:37
neatojonesI ought to be more specific, eh?  I mean, if I want to grab a dialog box, in what general direction should it be touching the screen08:37
bensonWell, I'm on an N800, so maybe not the same.08:38
bensonBut I had to tap 0.4" below the item08:38
neatojonesbummer.  Has anyone else with an N810 done it08:38
neatojonesalright.  Deblet is almost done unpacking so, I'll try it on my internel just for kicks.08:39
neatojonesMeiz: Have you seen this?: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7635920803.html08:41
neatojonesI'm going to try to get Illume going in deblet08:41
MacerreFIt requires osx ;)08:43
Macerso it's all thet same08:43
bensonneatojones: cool stuff08:45
neatojonesI don't think reFIt does.  It claims you can put it on a  cd and use it straight from the cd08:45
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neatojonesIf Illume works on deblet then, I'll try to "upgrade" it to mer.  Sounds crazy, but I actually got it to work once.08:46
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* ccooke notes a couple of articles about Seed in gnome. I wonder how applicable that could be in Maemo. 09:15
mavhcwhat's it do?09:21
Macerwell. neatojones was right09:28
Maceryou can just boot the rEFit cd and get it working09:28
Macerkubuntu is booting now haha09:28
Macerbbl.. going to make sure it doesn't suck09:28
neatojonesdoes kubuntu use KDE 4 or 3?09:28
neatojonesI thought it used 3 still09:29
neatojonesyou'll probably have to upgrade packages to 409:29
neatojonesMacer: try installing the rEFIt to your system and see if it still works.09:29
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ccookemavhc: Seed? It's a linkage between the webkit javascript core and GObject.09:38
ccookehttp://live.gnome.org/Seed09:38
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Macerneotojones09:50
Macerit's working ;)09:50
Maceri used the rEFIt boot disc.. i didn't notice they had one09:50
Macerit just changed the partition table and now kubuntu is booting on mymacbook... so far the only problem i found is the sound isn't playing09:50
Macerdon't know exactly why but it is working great09:51
neatojonesMaybe lack of drivers09:54
neatojonesmake sure they aren't restricted drivers too.  May have to be enabled09:54
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aquatixmorning all10:13
timelE61iYes10:14
Macerneatojones: nope.. it was just because my pcm channel was turned all the way down10:15
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Macersorry. trying to get the right click working10:15
Maceronce i'm done with that then everything is downhill :)10:15
Maceri can mod my kubuntu macbook10:16
Maceri told you .. i'm going to confuse all the yuppies and tell them it's the new unreleased osx10:16
RST38h[1] 15:58 RST38h (away) on #maemo (+cn) * type /helehlo all10:16
Macerhaha10:16
RST38hhmmm10:16
Macerat least 60% of idiotic mac users would believe me10:16
RST38hwhat about the remaining 40% idiotic mac users?10:17
johnxMacer, and even where it was obviously worse than current Mac OS they'd call it an awesome improvement :)10:17
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RST38hjohnx: this wont work unless steve jobs presents it to them personally10:18
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johnxnah, I think I just need to get my hands on his reality distortion device10:18
RST38hit is probably something delivered through skin contact10:19
johnxi mean, obviously it wasn't working for him when he was trying to sell NeXTStep, so it must be something he acquired later10:19
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RST38hworked well on the original apples10:20
RST38hso apple may hold a patent to this10:20
johnxaaah, very likely10:20
johnxbut it seems only jobs can use it right10:20
RST38hthey modified him genetically and now it has caused cancer!10:21
Passelianyone using Qt 4.5 beta1 in N800 ?10:21
RST38hcruel bastards these apple guys10:21
Passelii have problem with virtual keyboard, it will overlap areas in qt application10:21
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RST38hpasseli: it is called beta for a reason10:22
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Passeliyeah, i was just thinking that if anyone has find any solution for it10:25
Passelior do i have to wait new release where it is fixed10:25
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Macerjohnx - yeah.. they would10:27
Macerhaha10:27
Macernextstep was awesome10:28
Macer:)10:28
Macerwish i could get my hands on a cube10:28
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Macerthey're kind of a bitch to find now tho10:28
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Macerhm10:32
Maceri need to figure out how to right click with this goddamn one button macbook mouse in kde 410:32
Macerwtf apple.. 1 button mouse? get with it! :)10:32
Maceris that $0.0003 chinese button really that much of a pain on the bottom line?10:32
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X-FadeMorning.11:09
slonopotamushi11:09
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* Stskeeps is pissed at himself. turns out the book for the exam tomorrow wasn't at his office, but at his shelf at home.11:21
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hellhello. can i start applets from xterm, and watch output?11:31
timelE61iYes11:32
timelE61iIn some cases you may have to stop a daemon and run it from the term. Or slightly modify the start script11:33
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helltimelE61i: how? as i understand, applet is just lib for some hildon binary?11:34
Stskeepsalterego: how's the beagle doing?11:34
alteregoI've not even booted it yet O_O11:34
Stskeepshehe11:34
alteregoI've been really busy at work.11:34
timelE61i oh, appl*et*11:35
timelE61iFor that you'll need to run desktop from the term11:35
timelE61iSorry, busy11:35
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helltimelE61i: yeah, my gpesummary works very strange, it shows calendars event, but it cannot start calendar, and doesn't show todo's, but start gpe-todo well.11:36
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hellso, how developers debug their applets?11:38
Stskeepslog files maybe11:39
Stskeepsor actually, they test it in scratchbox11:40
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Macerhm11:48
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Maceri offended mac people because i told them that osx is overrated and macs are overpriced :)11:49
* Macer is enjoying his macbook much more with kubuntu on it 11:49
Maceri have to get root on my G111:49
solmumahaMacer: i wasn't offended11:49
Macerguess they have adhoc hackery similar to an iphone for it11:50
StskeepsMacer: having to hack my own device is one reason why i dont want a G111:50
Macerwhich would be pretty awesome11:50
Stskeepsalso, the developer key stuff is outrageous11:50
MacerStskeeps: haha.. i know.. it's stupid11:50
Macerit sure is11:50
Maceryou have to register.. then pay extra for an unlocked dev phone11:50
Stskeepsyes11:50
Macerthe open sourced nazis :)11:50
Stskeepsdid you see the Mer release, btw?11:51
Macerthere are more devices coming out though.. so hopefully other companies won't be so anal... but i need to get root on it11:51
Macerno.. not yet.. have to work on a couple other things first11:51
Macergetting rid of osx is done tho :)11:51
Stskeepshehe11:51
Stskeepsintel mac?11:51
Maceryeah11:51
Macermacbook (black one)11:52
Stskeepsthen you can grab virtualbox for os x and try out the VDI eventually :)11:52
Macerthank god i noticed rEFIt can boot11:52
Macerhaha.. screw osx.. it disgusts me11:52
Macerall the macbook hardware is working in kubuntu so i'm a lot happier11:52
Macerand i don't need 3rd party software to keep it out of sleep mode11:53
Stskeepshehe11:53
Macerand i can change my desktop icon font colors11:53
Maceryou know. all that shit that they decided to leave out11:53
Maceri thought the inability to change 99% of the colors in osx was also a wonderful apple idea11:53
Macer</sarcasm>11:53
Maceri changed my background in osx one day and noticed i couldn't see the icon fonts.. so i figured i'd just go into some settings pane somewhere and be able to change it11:54
Macerwhich is where i realized that osx totally sucked ass.. the underlying stuff is good.. but the gui itself should have produced fired and murdered apple developers11:55
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* Macer points at the 3rd party software requirement for keeping osx out of sleep mode11:55
Maceri mean.. come on! :)11:56
johnxyup, it's apple's way or the highway11:56
Stskeepsmorning johnx11:56
johnxmornin' Stskeeps11:56
johnxreading the mer 0.6 thread :)11:56
Stskeepsjohnx: http://jaiku.com/channel/merbuilder <- if it bombs on armel-sb, it will continue to armel native, and show a straightjacket if it completed natively11:56
Stskeepsas in, not satisfactory (it took 19793s to compile libvte), but it worked11:57
Stskeepsalso, build-x86 packagename for the arch-indep packages from now on11:57
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Stskeepsso it doesn't try to take in the huge machinery for an 'all' package ;)11:58
johnxhmm, I was thinking it might be good to *not* fall back on native sometimes. any thought on making it part of the build command?11:58
Stskeepsjohnx: yeah, but that complicates builder :P11:58
Stskeepsi'll look at it later11:58
Stskeepswe just need some python packages atm11:59
johnxaaah, don't worry then11:59
Macerwell.. let me get back to boston legal11:59
Stskeepsoh btw, we solved the start-hildon chroot xephyr thing11:59
johnxah, what was the trick?11:59
Stskeepsjohnx: mount --bind /tmp/.X11-unix instead of /tmp11:59
Stskeepsand /etc/init.d/dbus start inside chroot11:59
Macerthis show cracks me up12:00
Stskeepsif /tmp is mounted, it conflicts with system dbus12:00
johnxgood deal12:00
johnxanyways, I've got to get ready for work. I'm about halfway through re-working some of first-boot wizard to set passwords, ask about turning on swap (and potentially copy over ssh keys or regenerate new ones)12:02
Stskeepsalright12:02
Stskeepsthere seems to be trouble with N810 and HIM, i'm not sure why12:02
Macerquark is on boston legal12:02
Macer7 of 9 was on it in an earlier epsiode... i don't think she is too hot as a normal person12:02
Stskeepsjohnx: i'll get meiz poking at it later12:02
Macerwithout the skin tight uniform and eye implant12:02
StskeepsMacer: it's easy to excite nerds.12:03
johnxwhat kind of issue? keymap? X11 crash?12:03
MacerStskeeps: haha.. i guess .. she was absolutely hot in voyager12:03
johnxback later12:03
Stskeepsjohnx: no typing12:04
Macerbut then again she always had her hair up and again... the skin tight uniform12:04
lcukare you talking about chakotey again :P12:04
Macerwell. i believe at the end of voyager she was mrs chakotey12:04
lcukmmmmmmmmmm 7 of 9 goodness12:05
Stskeepsi still maintain allison hannigan was the hottest actress, but that's just me..12:05
Stskeeps:P12:05
Macershe had more of a dirty librarian look in voyager12:05
lcukno, its not12:05
Macerallison hannigan?12:05
Stskeepsgirl who played willow in buffy and flute girl in american pie :P12:05
Macerthe redhead?12:05
Stskeepsyeah12:06
Macerhm... i dunno about that.. but i guess everybody has their taste12:06
Maceri couldn't believe how hot laura prepon was from that 70s show12:06
Maceruntil i saw her in maxim or something12:06
lcuki dunno, before my time12:07
Macerheh12:07
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Macerhttp://images.askmen.com/galleries/actress/alyson-hannigan/pictures/alyson-hannigan-picture-1.jpg12:08
Macershe looks pretty good there12:08
lcuki had an epic battle (of my own doing last night) with fremantle sdk and gcc4 :'(12:08
lcukmacer dont tease i cant ogle actual images at work12:08
Macerwhy not?12:09
Stskeepslcuk: i was going to stop you but i thought the lesson might be valuable12:09
Stskeeps:P12:09
Macerthat's just messed up Stskeeps12:09
lcukheh12:09
Stskeepsalso, i was half-asleep12:09
lcukno, i learnt a lot about apt i think12:09
Macerhe just wanted you to lose all your hair before him12:09
lcukmacer, tbh i wasnt that bothered, the worst that wouldv happened would be a reflash - and a side effect of that is that i would document the process of getting gcc and normal sdk directly on device :)12:10
Macerhttp://www.wallpaperbase.com/wallpapers/celebs/alysonhannigan/alyson_hannigan_7.jpg12:10
lcuki keep waiting for an excuse but spit feathers at actually having to spend time setting up rather than coding12:10
Macershe is pretty cute12:11
* lcuk is pretty sure hes seen almost ever alyson hannigan picture ever taken12:11
Stskeepslcuk: besides that mer has new gcc and sqlite :P12:12
lcukyeah, well fremantle does, there was a couple of functions i wanted and were only in latest, i did some modifications to code and just used the old one (after repairing everything and sorting out EABI issues and reforcing updates and downgrades and all kinds of brainfck12:13
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Stskeepshehe12:13
lcukit works really nicely i just need import routines and i can do some actual tests on calendar/timekeeping12:13
hell`/j #gpe12:14
lcukanyway, bbl12:14
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Stskeepsmorning meiz12:18
StskeepsMeiz_n810: can you at some point take 0.6 image, test if the keyboard works in the first boot wizard, and if HIM works?12:18
Meiz_n810i have tested it already, both were working12:19
Stskeepsodd12:19
* Meiz_n810 installed 0.6 yesterday12:19
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: what's odd?12:19
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Stskeepsneatojones had issues with it, so :P12:20
Stskeepsi should really get a n810 at work to test on..12:20
Meiz_n810the jffs2 image?12:20
Stskeepsno, he tested installer + tar.gz too so12:20
Meiz_n810okay12:20
Meiz_n810i didn't use installer btw. just manually unpacked the tar.gz12:22
Macerhm12:22
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: i have once had same problem. (h-i-m not coming up)12:25
Meiz_n810but i am not sure if i used the installer12:25
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Stskeepswe'll see i guess12:25
Stskeepsi guess it might be useful to try and make testcase stuff at some point, heh12:26
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Macerwow12:31
Macernow neelix is on boston legal12:31
Macerso far they have almost had the entire voyager cast haha12:31
Stskeepsboston legal is actually just a time traveller episode of voyager12:33
Macerhahaha12:33
Macersoon tuvok is going to teleport into court12:34
Maceri thought one of the funniest moments was when william shatner opened his cell phone and it made that old school communicator noise from the capt kirk days12:34
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mavhcso boston legal is a comedy?12:35
Stskeepsif you're a star trek fan, it is, seemingily :P12:37
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* Stskeeps pokes garage svn viewer with a stick12:39
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Stskeepseh.12:53
* garage_svn_viewe pokes stskeeps with a bigger stick12:53
Stskeepsknew that was coming12:54
Stskeeps:P12:54
garage_svn_viewe:D12:54
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JaffaMorning, all13:14
slonopotamusgimme the source13:15
slonopotamusStskeeps, http://repository.mer.tspre.org/pool/main/x/xorg-server-xomap/ no sources :-/ what did you build that from?13:16
Stskeepsslonopotamus: you don't want to build that one13:16
Stskeepsi'm throwing it out soon so13:16
Stskeepsuse xf86-video-omfab13:16
Stskeepsomapfb13:16
slonopotamusStskeeps, with what xserver?13:16
slonopotamusStskeeps, vanilla xorg?13:17
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Stskeepsyes13:18
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luke-jrAny ideas what the initial price of the OMAP3 Nokia tablet will be?13:18
Stskeepsnop13:18
slonopotamusStskeeps, hm... what about memory consumption? have you tried that?13:19
inzluke, what you can afford + some13:19
slonopotamus:D13:19
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Stskeepsslonopotamus: it's an xorg + a smallish driver13:20
Stskeeps:P13:20
slonopotamusStskeeps, i know. i'm worried of xorg13:21
slonopotamushmm... worried with?13:21
slonopotamusworried by?13:21
Stskeepsslonopotamus: it's not bad compared to the advantages we get from it13:21
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slonopotamusStskeeps, maemo Xomap = Xorg + omapfb?13:22
Stskeepsno, xomap is a kdrive version13:22
Stskeepsthey merged xorg and kdrive in latest versions13:22
luke-jrinz: what I can afford is probably capped at $200 for the moment ☺13:23
slonopotamusomg.13:23
slonopotamusi can build xorg-server with USE="kdrive" :)13:23
Stskeepsluke-jr: save 100$ up a month and you'll have the money for it when it comes up :)13:23
slonopotamuswill that be xorg or kdrive? :)13:23
Stskeepsno clue13:23
X-Fadeluke-jr: My guess is that that is not enough..13:23
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slonopotamusxorg can be ./configure'd with --with-kdrive13:24
luke-jrStskeeps: I could, but I'd like to compare and see if it's worth the waiting/saving or if I should just grab a N810 :þ13:24
Stskeepsluke-jr: n800's are dead cheap too these days13:24
luke-jrn800 lacks a keyboard though13:25
luke-jrand tbh, even the N810's benefit is basically 64 MB more RAM13:26
Stskeepseh13:26
luke-jrthan my Zaurus SL-C76013:26
Stskeepsah13:26
luke-jrand a working battery13:26
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slonopotamusluke-jr, uh? n810 has more ram?13:27
Stskeepsslonopotamus: than a zaurus13:27
slonopotamusah13:27
luke-jrif N900 adds cell internet and 256 MB RAM, it'd def be worth saving/waiting for13:28
luke-jrotherwise, probably not13:28
Stskeepsluke-jr: it definately adds cell internet13:28
Woolyanyone know of a notification daemon that will allow me to click-to-dismiss?13:29
slonopotamusi see 6 zaurus's13:29
StskeepsWooly: you can always hack the notifications13:29
Woolythat would be the last resort13:29
Stskeepsalso the best probably13:29
Woolythe notification time-out uses a "simulate close" function, which I think I could link to a mouse-event13:30
luke-jrslonopotamus: SL-C760/860 is what I have, and quite nice13:30
Woolyi just wanted to be sure that no-one had done it already13:30
Stskeepsluke-jr: http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i-january_2009-part_ii/13:30
Stskeepscurent rumours13:30
Stskeeps+r13:30
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slonopotamushildon, gpe, qtopia... pick one :)13:32
luke-jrwell, the Qtopia back in Zaurus era sucked :/13:33
luke-jr♡ Qt tho13:33
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luke-jrI wonder why nobody seems to care to make clamshells anymore13:35
luke-jrseems the obvious solution to protect from scratches and such, rather than a case13:35
glassthey waste space13:35
glassgood devices don't need protecting from scratches and such13:35
aquatixit has to be rather hard safire not to crack when stuck between other things in a bag13:37
aquatixor damage the touchscreen part13:37
aquatixdigitiser13:37
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GeneralAntillesMy phone now likes to pull random text messages out from 6 months ago and notify me of them now. . . .13:42
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StsN800ghost in the machine eh13:44
luke-jrglass: anything with a LCD needs protection from scratches13:44
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GeneralAntillesStsN800, it's rather unnerving.13:45
GeneralAntillesStsN800, especially when one of them was from my old girlfriend. <_<13:45
X-FadeBooty call? :)13:47
StsN800back 2 years when my mom died i sent a msg to my not-yet-gf that something bad happened and we couldn't meet up wednesday.. she got told by one of my friends, so she was confused when the message i sent came delayed a week later, heh13:47
StsN800stupid texting systems at times13:48
aquatixa week? that's rather bad13:50
luke-jrif the "N900" has cell internet, any reason i couldn't use VoIP over that for my normal phone use? ;)13:50
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, sadly, no. :P13:50
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glassluke-jr: well some nokias phones do voip over 3g too..13:50
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, no.13:50
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, any limitation wont be software-side anyway.13:51
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Macerboston legal just got a little far fetched with the whole midget thing13:51
Maceralthough alan shore does seem to be getting more funny13:52
luke-jr13:53
luke-jrso I guess the big question is how much the service costs >_<13:53
aquatixye13:53
aquatix*yep13:53
aquatixand whether the providers won't throttle/firewall voip13:54
X-FadeOr even have a clause in their contract ;)13:54
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, depends greatly on your provider.13:54
GeneralAntillesI'm fairly certain it'll be a $30-a-month data-only plan from AT&T here in the States.13:54
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aquatixthat's about as much as i pay for 20MBit adsl here13:55
Maceryour dsl goes that fast?13:57
Macerwhat ever happened to sdsl? :)13:58
aquatixwell, mine does not, as i'm too far from the exchange13:58
GeneralAntillesStsN800, you're going to have to establish a less real-time discussion place if you want to get fanoush involved, apparently. :P13:58
Maceri doubt thre are many that do go that fast13:58
aquatixbut it's the full-out subscription13:58
X-FadeMacer: Mine does.13:58
aquatix16MBit is really doable13:58
aquatixi had 12+MBit for a while on 3600m from the exchange even, now i have 8MBit13:58
Macerlol13:59
aquatixthe cable provider here is going to do 30MBit in a short while13:59
aquatixand up to 80MBit in a year13:59
aquatixso i'm thinking about switching isp's even14:00
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: how about Sprint? tbh, it seems the other providers have poor coverage14:00
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StsN800GeneralAntilles, yeah i know - wanted to establish a small core of people here first14:02
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, Verizon has the best overall coverage in the US.14:02
luke-jrdo they?14:03
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, but it's highly region-depenent.14:03
GeneralAntillesSome providers are better in certain areas than others.14:03
luke-jrwith Sprint, I mostly always have full 3 bars, and only lose service inside very insulated buildings or the trek from Omaha to Kansas City where there's literally nothing ;p14:03
GeneralAntillesNextel tended to have much better coverage in the South than the North for instance (before the Sprint merger).14:03
StsN800GeneralAntilles, i'll set up mailing list on mer garage14:03
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, bars don't necessarily translate well to data coverage.14:04
luke-jrhm14:04
luke-jrwould be neat if it supported cell phone stuff too, so I could have my Asterisk box failover to that link if the data was poor14:05
aquatixheh, a voip to cell phone switchbox on your n90014:05
GeneralAntillesMeh14:05
GeneralAntillesReal cellular voice brings with it too many evils.14:06
GeneralAntillesIt's not something you can just blithely add to a device.14:06
luke-jro?14:06
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GeneralAntillesluke-jr, there are many more regulatory and carrier requirements to consider when you add cellular.14:07
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GeneralAntillesluke-jr, in the end, I'm fairly certain it what destroy what makes Maemo Maemo.14:07
aquatixGeneralAntilles: true14:07
aquatixbetter hook it up to your favourite phone14:08
GeneralAntillesJust look at how locked-down Android is.14:08
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aquatixGeneralAntilles: otoh, there's openmoko14:08
GeneralAntillesaquatix, yes, well, and look where they are. ;)14:08
luke-jraquatix: I don't want a separate phone14:08
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GeneralAntillesarmv414:08
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GeneralAntillesluke-jr, you really do. :P14:09
aquatixluke-jr: i can imagine14:09
GeneralAntillesYou don't want to be carrying your tablet around with you everywhere.14:09
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aquatixbut atm i think it's the best option14:09
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b-manmorning everyone14:09
X-FadeSmall and simple phone + tablet :D14:09
aquatixand besides, a tablet is just a tad too large to lug around everywhere imho14:09
GeneralAntilles^14:09
aquatixX-Fade: yeah14:09
luke-jrGeneralAntilles: no I don't14:09
* aquatix even has a smallish smartphone with it14:10
GeneralAntillesand too expensive to risk taking to a party where you're likely to be dropped in a pool.14:10
aquatixluke-jr: :)14:10
luke-jrthe entire purpose of a tablet is to carry it everywhere14:10
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, hardly.14:10
GeneralAntillesIt's to carry ALMOST everywhere.14:10
aquatixluke-jr: and then drop it in a glass of beer? ;)14:10
luke-jrotherwise I'd just bring my laptop14:10
X-Fadelardman|gone: Almost anywhere, sure ;)14:10
luke-jraquatix: I don't drink.14:10
aquatixor in the toilet14:10
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GeneralAntillesDrinking is a bad place to bring your tablet. :P14:10
aquatixGeneralAntilles: or anything electronic :)14:11
luke-jrmy current cell phone is 5 years old14:11
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luke-jrI don't have those kind of problems.14:11
* aquatix almost drowned his smartphone last FOSDEM's beer event14:11
aquatixluke-jr: me neither14:11
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aquatixluke-jr: but imho, a tablet is a tad too large to use as phone14:12
GeneralAntillesaquatix, well, except for that cheap phone X-Fade's talking about. ;)14:12
aquatixluke-jr: or did you want to use a head piece with it14:12
GeneralAntillesSide talkin'!14:12
aquatixGeneralAntilles: :)14:12
aquatixside talking--14:12
* X-Fade 's N95 got a nice beer shower when Kees kicked a beer glass at LinuxTag ;)14:12
luke-jraquatix: I have a headset for my Zaurus ;)14:12
aquatixX-Fade: fun14:12
luke-jrwould it be compatible?14:12
aquatixluke-jr: wired or wireless?14:12
luke-jrwired14:12
aquatixbtw, nokia has a wired headpiece included even14:13
luke-jrit uses Left for mic, Right for speaker14:13
X-FadeIt survived though..14:13
luke-jrI think14:13
luke-jror vice-versa14:13
aquatixand my jabra bluetooth one works well with it too14:13
aquatixX-Fade: heh, nice14:13
* aquatix is looking at the Nokia N97 and the Palm Pre as new phones14:13
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GeneralAntillesHa14:14
GeneralAntillesExpensive.14:14
aquatixyep14:14
aquatixbut i like my PIM in my pocket14:14
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aquatixpreferably with touchscreen and qwerty14:14
aquatixa maemo phone would be awesome too14:14
luke-jrI've almost given up on PIM, period, tbh14:14
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* aquatix uses it daily14:14
aquatixthe UIQ3/symbian one works fine for me14:15
luke-jrI don't want to use anything GTK :/14:15
aquatixeven syncs nicely with ScheduleWorld14:15
lopzhola14:15
aquatixluke-jr: eh?14:15
aquatixPIM is personal information manager in general14:15
luke-jryeah14:15
luke-jrand KDE 4's PIM totally sucks14:15
aquatixah14:15
aquatixmyeah, i use evolution now and then with scheduleworld14:15
aquatixbut generally just use my phone for it14:16
luke-jrevolution is GTK ;)14:16
aquatixi know14:16
aquatixi've standardised on gtk14:16
Stskeepsaquatix: we plan to make freerunner a maemophone ;P14:16
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aquatixStskeeps: that's cool14:16
aquatixbut freerunner sucks :)14:16
luke-jrlol14:16
Stskeepsif we can get ubuntu compiled for armv4t :P14:16
aquatixi want a phone that lasts the day ;)14:16
aquatixand has a keyboard to boot14:16
aquatixStskeeps: :)14:17
luke-jreh14:17
aquatixStskeeps: can't you use debian instead?14:17
luke-jrmy cell lasts a day14:17
luke-jras long as I leave it on the charger14:17
Stskeepsaquatix: possibly, but there are some problems with package name differences14:17
aquatixheh14:17
aquatixmine almost a week14:17
aquatixStskeeps: ah14:17
aquatixit'd be interesting to have a nokia n97 with 800x480 screen and maemo14:19
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aquatixbut that's not going to happen i guess14:19
X-Fadeaquatix: My guess is that if we really make Maemo rock, that is only a logical step..14:20
aquatixtrue14:20
aquatixbut nokia has other plans i think14:20
aquatixsomething to do with an open source symbian and qt14:20
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* GeneralAntilles wonders idly if anybody ever remix Jive Talking to Side Talking.14:20
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luke-jrso what's the current status of a 100% Free N810 firmware?14:22
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Stskeepsluke-jr: it won't be 100% free because we need some things like wifi firmware, bluetooth firmware, battery handling14:24
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Stskeepsbut everything relevant..14:24
opengeekv2hey i have the vdi image running on virtualbox how can i open a terminal in mer to run whatever apps that it has14:24
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wazdInternet, at last!14:24
luke-jrfirmware aside for now14:24
aquatixwazd!14:24
luke-jrwtf does battery handling have to do with it?14:24
Stskeepsluke-jr: BME14:24
luke-jr14:24
Stskeepsclosed source, liability14:24
luke-jr?14:24
X-Fadeluke-jr: It won't charge for example ;)14:24
Stskeepsyou can make a battery explode with an open source version of it, so14:25
X-Fadeluke-jr: Charging is software controlled.14:25
Stskeeps:P14:25
luke-jrStskeeps: you can make a battery explode with a closed source version of it too14:25
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luke-jror without any software for that matter14:25
luke-jrjust throw it in a fire14:25
aquatixStskeeps: shush, don't make the CIA think you can make an OSS bomb14:25
X-Fadeluke-jr: Yes, but then Nokia is liable.14:25
luke-jrwhy?14:25
lcukmicrosoft can make a closed source bomb, why cant we :D14:25
aquatixghehe14:25
X-FadeIf you get injured by their product?14:26
lcukor do you doubt windows ME was a WMD?14:26
X-FadeLawyers will love that one ;)14:26
aquatixlcuk: it was a WMF14:26
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, because lawyers and legislators are silly people.14:26
Stskeepsopengeekv2: ctrl-alt-f1 is a good start14:26
Stskeepsand log in as root/rootme14:26
luke-jrX-Fade: you can modify a binary to be bad14:26
hellStskeeps: so, having root access and doing some reverse engineering, someone can explode battery?14:26
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Stskeepshell: yes, basically14:26
Stskeepsbut then it's your own fault14:26
X-Fadeluke-jr: Sure, but modify equals warranty loss.14:27
luke-jrStskeeps: same as if you modify source14:27
lcukx-fade to lighten the mood, i think i can do a really nice practical thing with the multitouch :) shall see in the coming weeks14:27
luke-jrX-Fade: so modify source = warranty loss too14:27
Stskeepsluke-jr: also there's probably a bunch of patents regarding power saving and trade secrets14:27
X-Fadelcuk: Do tell :)14:27
hellStskeeps: i thnk, every user of N810 have rootsh installed14:27
opengeekv2yes nut when i make this the host goes to the terminal14:27
Stskeepsso14:27
opengeekv2not the guest14:27
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Stskeepsi don't blame nokia14:27
GeneralAntilleshell, I think that's BS. :)14:27
luke-jrStskeeps: patents are something to blame for14:27
Stskeepsopengeekv2: hmm, you can lock the keyboard to there i think14:27
opengeekv2i'll find it don't worry14:28
luke-jrStskeeps: so battery charging is usermode?14:28
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Stskeepsanyway. i've been knee deep in this firmware stuff for quite a while, no, 100% open firmware isn't going to happen that easily, 95% where 5% is wifi firmware, bluetooth firmware, hw interfacing (battery), is just as bad as on a typical ubuntu14:28
Stskeeps:P14:29
luke-jrI don't use Ubuntu.14:29
helli think, there are a lot of hardware, reventing explode, zeners, r somethng like this.14:29
luke-jrI use Gentoo with a draconian ACCEPT_LICENSE value14:29
hell*preventing14:29
Stskeepswhat we can -hope- for, is the permission to redistribute that part14:29
aquatixluke-jr: you use wifi?14:29
luke-jraquatix: on my laptop, ath5k14:29
luke-jractually, replacement laptop has some annoying intel wifi14:29
aquatixdoes that use a firmware blob?14:29
wazdopengeekv2: ok, I saw your mockups14:29
luke-jraquatix: I already said firmware aside. ;)14:30
Stskeepshypocrite ;)14:30
luke-jrnot at all14:30
opengeekv2wazd: and what do you thing about it14:30
opengeekv2?14:30
luke-jrthe hardware level just is not winnable yet14:30
Stskeepsthe nokia stuff is just as much firmware as the rest, so :P14:30
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, at the end of the day, to make progress you have to make concessions.14:30
wazdopengeekv2: first of all you can move dropdown menu to the left14:30
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, license zealotry tends, mostly, to drive people away and halt any possible progress.14:30
wazdopengeekv2: so right border of menu will match right order of icon14:30
luke-jrStskeeps: kernel modules are not firmware/hardware, and in the case of Linux, illegal if not GPL compatible14:31
Stskeepsluke-jr: we have open wifi now.14:31
luke-jrI'm more concerned if Nokia violates the copyrights on Linux, than if they have "trade sekrets" and patents.14:31
lcuk-illegal14:31
opengeekv2oh i dont understand14:31
opengeekv2my english is awful14:31
lcukopengeekv2, i saw your mockups as well :) happy to see you are looking beyond the first couple of items14:32
Stskeepsneat, stlc45xx development is going on still14:32
wazdopengeekv2: And I like horizonal oriented menu idea14:32
luke-jrStskeeps: yes, i saw that14:32
wazdopengeekv2: with no title :)14:32
luke-jrso this battery crap-- what exactly is it?14:33
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, Nokia isn't violating any copyrights.14:33
opengeekv2why tittle annoies you?14:33
luke-jris it a kernel module, so someone can sue Nokia over it?14:33
Stskeepsluke-jr: it's a binary running in userspace speaking to the tahvo and retu chips14:33
luke-jrmeh14:33
lcuklol, opengeekv2 don't mention titles or microsoft around wazd14:33
lcukhes "touchy"14:33
GeneralAntillesluke-jr, stop being silly.14:33
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wazdopengeekv2: not sure if it's easier to navigate that way though14:33
hellGeneralAntilles: what 'BS' does mean?14:33
Stskeepsluke-jr: over perfectly sane and open kernel interfaces :)14:33
luke-jrStskeeps: can it be sandboxed? :/14:33
GeneralAntilleshell, bullshit.14:33
wazdopengeekv2: cause title is useless. forget bout it for god sake)14:33
hell.14:33
GeneralAntilleshell, most tablet users do not use rootsh.14:34
Stskeepsluke-jr: no clue. i'm personally not touching BME as i don't want to blow up my tablet :)14:34
GeneralAntilleshell, Nokia's sold close to or over a million tablets.14:34
Stskeepsluke-jr: and i'm perfectly fine with one or two binary blobs in my system14:34
GeneralAntilleshell, rootsh has 15,000 downloads http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/rootsh/14:34
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wazdopengeekv2: the bad thing bout horizonal menu is scrilling14:34
lcukheh GeneralAntilles how do you manage to charge your 499282 tablets?14:34
hellGeneralAntilles: they just reboot it, when pppd hangs up14:34
Stskeepsbecause it is better than having a completely locked down system like let's say, t-mobile G114:34
wazdscrolling*14:34
opengeekv2why14:35
opengeekv2?14:35
Stskeepswhere you have to pay friggen 300$ and 25$ to get a open version14:35
GeneralAntilleslcuk, I've got a Mr. Fussion.14:35
glassStskeeps: and a shitload for shippng14:35
lcuk :wazd, technically whats wrong with horiz scrolling14:35
glassStskeeps: i suspect g1's price is around 600 real money14:35
lcukcanola does it in its picture viewer to great effect14:35
hellGeneralAntilles: so, as i understand, if you switch to rd mode, no rootsh needed.14:35
luke-jrStskeeps: port Linux to it?14:35
GeneralAntilleshell, or modify the gainroot script.14:36
lcukStskeeps, g1 is locked down? i thought it was a linux device?14:36
ShadowJK600 would put it in similar place as Nokia N95/N96's and iPhone's "real money" price14:36
GeneralAntilleshell, but I'm not sure how that's relevant to your claim that most tablet users are using rootsh.14:36
wazdlcuk, opengeekv2: you can't fit much items in a row14:36
glasslcuk: linux doesn't meant not locked down14:36
lcukor is this one of those fake linux devices14:36
Stskeepsluke-jr: G1 firmware is locked unless you get a developer key and a special version of it14:36
Stskeepslcuk: tivo, as an example..14:36
lcukwazd, think outside the box :)14:36
glasslcuk: plenty of motos run linux underneath, totally locked from the user, too14:36
luke-jrStskeeps: JTAG?14:36
wazdlcuk, opengeekv2: so you'll always have to scroll14:36
aquatixlcuk: linux is just deep down in there14:36
lcukalso - PLEASE consider rotation in mer14:36
lcuki dont want to always be stuck in landscape14:36
hellGeneralAntilles: yeah, most of Linux users, i think, yes.14:36
aquatixlcuk: android only provides that java-like environment14:37
AndrewFBlackHello14:37
Stskeepsluke-jr: and it's android, the supposedly very open firmware14:37
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aquatixhey AndrewFBlack14:37
opengeekv2what do yoi mean with scroll?14:37
GeneralAntilleshell, all tablet users are Linux users, arguably.14:37
wazdlcuk: in portrait mode it's even worse14:37
GeneralAntilleshell, still don't see your point.14:37
hellso, it's interesting question for vote.14:37
slonopotamusrotation... heh... look at squeak. they rotate windows for arbitrary angle14:37
luke-jrStskeeps: JTAG?14:37
wazdopengeekv2: try to fit in a row Maemo Mapper menu14:37
lcukwazd, slonopotamus :)14:37
Stskeepsluke-jr: find a jtag on your g1, sure :P14:37
lcuk-wazd14:37
opengeekv2let me see14:37
Stskeepsi'm off.14:37
luke-jrStskeeps: dunno what a G1 is :þ14:38
Stskeepsluke-jr: ..14:38
luke-jrmy experience porting Linux is with cable modems14:38
luke-jr14:38
* lcuk wants a fast smalltalk/squeek/hypercard implementation on device 14:38
Stskeepshttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_phone14:38
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aquatixluke-jr: G1 is the google android phone by HTC14:38
opengeekv2iseee14:38
slonopotamushttp://www.user.fh-stralsund.de/~twenge/Medien_3/squeak/Screen_Shots/Basic/SqRules.gif14:38
slonopotamusthat IS rotation :)14:38
glassthat they sell as the devphone too, the devphone is unlocked but like said, not really cheap14:38
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lcuk                              do you do actual dev on the devphone?14:39
lcuk-all that space from leaning my jacket potato box on the keyboard14:39
glasslcuk: me? no, but it's the unlocked version of g114:39
hellGeneralAntilles: i'm novice in maemo and i'm missing some of history moments, so unprotected root is one of they.14:39
opengeekv2but have you sen tha the menu apearing in the middle is not a good thing no?14:40
lcukglass cant you just install apps onto it developed in the emulator ? like we do with scratchbox14:40
glasslcuk: yea sure, but.. android apps run in a vm14:40
glasslcuk: javalike vm, so it's not really different to say a sidekick for the developer14:40
lcukyeah14:40
glasslcuk: or a blackberry, so the openness is just empty words from google14:40
lcukso why do you explicitely need a dev version14:41
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wazdopengeekv2: you can move initial menu to the left, so it's right border will align to button's right border14:41
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luke-jrhm14:41
luke-jris the dev version actually Free?14:41
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lcukas in beer14:41
glassluke-jr: free as in you end up paying 500-700$ for it14:41
lcukvery very expensive beer14:41
luke-jrnot gratis, Free14:41
opengeekv2yes14:41
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opengeekv2i like it14:41
glassnot really Free either14:41
lcukwilliam wallis free14:41
glassyou need to join googles dev program to get it14:42
glassand that involves a contract or two with them, thats not Free14:42
Stskeepshttp://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/pymer.png <- Python Hildon + Python OSSO on Mer.14:42
Stskeeps(armel version is building as we speak)14:42
lcukglass, but once you have it can you redistribute it ala gpl14:42
lcukor is the ide not gpl?14:42
luke-jrhmmmm14:42
aquatixStskeeps: whoa, scary, i read `paris hilton' instead of `python hildon'14:42
glasslcuk: well, i dunno what legal foo they got, but that australian dude who was going to put out an android phone got silenced pretty well by google14:42
Stskeepsaquatix: you've been watching too much TV14:43
aquatixStskeeps: no, too much interwebs14:43
luke-jrG1 sounds like a good legal case for the GPL ☺14:43
opengeekv2wazd: but i it is vertical ter is no much rpoblem14:43
glasslcuk: and the google parts, like maps and stuff like that is google properiaty and you'd need licenses from google to include it14:43
lcukglass, dunno i do all my code on n8x0 for now14:43
aquatixluke-jr: bring it14:43
luke-jrin theory, it could probably be argued the signing key is source code14:43
Stskeepsluke-jr: i'm willing to bet it's GPLv2 all the way.14:43
Stskeepsbusybox, linux14:43
aquatixyeah14:43
lcukglass, the map imagery is different to source code14:43
glasslcuk: ..not just the imagery14:44
luke-jrStskeeps: that link suggests Apache license for a lot14:44
Stskeepsluke-jr: and suing Google for license problems when they just open sourced a friggen mobile OS..14:44
Macerok.. teh mother having sex with the son in boston legal was disturbing14:44
glasslcuk: point being google is keeping a very tight leash on it despite they launched it as 'open'14:44
Stskeepsthat's bad press and just shows people how gnubieish the gpl people really are14:44
Stskeepsbbl14:44
luke-jrStskeeps: open source is irrelevant if you can't even modify it14:45
glasslcuk: like, i'm still waiting for a real non google non oper phone to appear, for the platform to be intresting for me14:45
Stskeepsluke-jr: open source has nothing to do with that14:45
lcukglass moko14:45
Stskeepsopen source has to deal with the ability to view what your computer is doing14:45
luke-jrI use the word 'Free' instead of 'open' for a reason14:45
glasslcuk: moko is irrelevant for commercial dev..14:45
opengeekv2wazd: this way |Route Track Maps| Show Auto-Center Full Screen GPS .... (two arrows down and make the rest of the menu apperaring14:45
lcukis the open moko not open?14:45
luke-jrStskeeps: Free software is about having the freedom to do what you like with your software.14:45
lcukglass, but its an open phone14:46
glasslcuk: i don't want an open phone, i want a phone with open apis and sw distribution..14:46
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GeneralAntillesGoddamnit, Stskeeps, when do I get a time machine so I can warp ahead 6 months? :(14:46
glasslcuk: i'd love to develope for android if it got relevant and this way it'll never get to that since google isn't devs release the phones14:47
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: it's called a coma14:47
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lcukglass, how lopng have you been waiting?14:47
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, did you ever see that episode of South Park? ;)14:47
Stskeepsyes, of course :P14:47
glasslcuk: waiting? i'm not waiting per se, that would be stupid.. i'm a hired mobile dev guy14:47
Maceri had no idea14:47
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ShadowJKre bme, I wonder if without it you only lose the reporting, or if the bme daemon actually controls things (i.e. without it -> boom)14:48
hellGeneralAntilles: so, what you would do in summer?) Anti-crisis deal, "no food, no money, jump to summer right now"?)14:48
Macerthe southpark episode about scientology are amazing14:48
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lcukok, so you are already used to working in the garden the target provides, be it iphone,android,etc14:48
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lcukand as a commercial dev whats wrong with ponying up for the dev license?14:48
glasslcuk: yeah, but android isn't relevant because nobody i know can even buy a consumer android phone14:48
X-FadeShadowJK: bme actually directs the current to the battery..14:48
ShadowJKoh boom without it then :-)14:49
glasslcuk: so when they actually, IF they actually, get the phones i can jump on the train14:49
Macernot amazing.. but accurate14:49
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GeneralAntillesShadowJK, no, it just doesn't charge.14:49
Macerheh.. lke.. southpark seriously was telling the truth about scientology when they made that episode14:49
glasslcuk: but now it looks like google is just hindering development from guys who would like to release such phones14:49
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GeneralAntillesMacer, Scientology is pure evil.14:49
ShadowJKGeneralAntilles, if it also handles the cutoff then you could overdischarge battery beyond the point at which it becomes unstable though?14:49
GeneralAntillesShadowJK, it charges it. Without it, no current goes to the battery.14:50
glasslcuk: i'm not a big fan of google corporate culture as you can probably see :D14:50
ShadowJKoverdischarge, not overcharge14:50
MacerGeneralAntilles: i had no idea that south park was serious though14:50
Macerwhen they had the "THIS IS WHAT SCIENTOLOGISTS BELIEVE"14:50
X-FadeShadowJK: Overdischarge won't give fire, it will just kill the lipo.14:50
glassMacer: south park is very serious.. the jokes just hide that from people who don't pay attention14:50
GeneralAntillesMacer, yeah, they're a terrifying bunch.14:51
Macerwell.. i never really researched scientology that much14:51
Macerand figured they couldn't be serious14:51
glassMacer: and family guy actually teaches traditional family values, believe it or not14:51
Macerit was too far fetched :)14:51
X-FadeShadowJK: But indeed bme shuts the tablet down when the battery voltage gets too low.14:51
GeneralAntillesMacer, they OWN Clearwater, FL.14:51
ShadowJKright14:51
GeneralAntillesMacer, the entire Clearwater PD is on their payroll.14:52
Macerbut no shit... scientologists really believe in an ancient alien war14:52
ShadowJKX-Fade, it might give fire if you try to charge it again after too deep discharge, but you'd hope bme would refuse to charge in that case :)14:52
AndrewFBlackis it bad that after I saw the new themes the LCARs guys put out I didn't want to work on mine any more lol14:52
GeneralAntillesOff-duty cops stand gard outside their HQ in uniform.14:52
Macerand alien souls :) haha14:52
StsN800AndrewFBlack, intimidated eh?14:52
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X-FadeShadowJK: The cell itself won't accept the charge anymore..14:52
AndrewFBlackStskeeps, Very much so14:52
GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, hehe, I was talking to Ian last night. They do know their stuff.14:52
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StsN800AndrewFBlack, i think you should continue though14:53
MacerGeneralAntilles: i have never met an actual scientologist14:53
lcukthats because if you meet one they have to eat you14:53
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Macerhaha14:53
GeneralAntillesMacer, I grew up right near the heart of Scientology.14:53
Macereverything was true in south park though14:53
Macerthe whole hook the machine up to the brain .. etc14:54
AndrewFBlackGeneralAntilles, Using Hildon Tools blows anything I can do out the water, I'm not going to stop just disencouraged me a little14:54
Maceri seriously thought that southpark was exagerating or just being too literal14:54
aquatixMacer: the scary part is, they didn't have to14:54
glassMacer: well.. you know why scientologists don't want public info.. because it would sound too ridiculous14:54
StsN800AndrewFBlack, its fairly easyto use those tools though14:55
Maceraquatix: yeah hahaha14:55
GeneralAntillesMacer, the e-meter is a triumph of engineering. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/E-Meter/14:55
AndrewFBlackStskeeps, I think this is just going to push me to get off my lazy butt and learn the real way to do themes not the easy way, don't get me wrong I love theme maker but it can only take me so far14:55
Macernow i want to read the l ron collection14:55
GeneralAntillesAndrewFBlack, throw in with the synthesize.us lot14:56
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GeneralAntillesElron Hubbard? ;)14:56
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Maceris it elron?14:56
Macerthought it was L. Ron14:56
GeneralAntillesIt is.14:56
GeneralAntillesBad joke. ;)14:56
lcukpull up, pull up,  i can't elron's stuck in the wing again14:56
GeneralAntillesIt's amazing how a mediocre science fiction writer turned into the leader of the world's most accepted cult.14:57
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lcukmost accepted cult == apple14:57
lcukscientology is pisscakes by comparison14:57
GeneralAntilleslcuk, ailerons don't control pitch. :P14:58
AndrewFBlackGeneralAntilles, I asked one of the guys that was on IRC about working with theme on some themes but never got a reply back.14:58
aquatixlcuk: except that scientology is influential behind the screens14:58
aquatixi wonder how much influence tom cruise and friends have14:58
lcukso is apple, dont they own a bit of disney :P14:58
aquatixlcuk: pixar?14:58
lcukok close enough, its behind the screens :P14:59
aquatixghehe14:59
* lcuk gives GeneralAntilles a masonic handshake14:59
GeneralAntillesHehe15:00
GeneralAntillesAt least the Masons aren't totally out of their minds.15:00
aquatix:)15:00
lcuk...15:00
GeneralAntillesThey do community service and whatnot.15:00
lcukwhat do you think tom cruise does?15:00
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StsN800talkshows?15:01
lcukit was a community service to screw katie holmes every day15:01
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aquatixlcuk: lol15:02
jaskaitd be a community service for him to commit seppuku15:02
aquatixwell, i suspect him lobbying in politics15:02
lcuk:S jaska15:02
aquatixjaska: *g*15:02
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RST38hAll right. What happened while I was away?15:02
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lcukwe voted you off the island15:03
GeneralAntilles^15:03
aquatixRST38h: the world spun a few degrees15:03
aquatixand that15:03
RST38hWar? Famine? Can I hope for an outbreak of bubonic plague?15:03
GeneralAntillesWe also voted you out of the house.15:03
RST38haquatix: boring15:03
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lcukyou are the weakest link, goodbye15:03
StsN800RST38h, bush's taking a third term15:03
lcuknoooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo15:03
aquatixRST38h: ah, and the singularity transferred us to a virtual world, but that's not really worth a news item15:03
lcukRST38h, what were u doing anyway, and have you washed your hands15:04
RST38hOh, YESSS! I knew I could count on little buggers:15:04
RST38hhttp://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2146286.ece15:04
wazd damn, now that's a problem15:05
RST38hlcuk: Before or after whatever I was doing?15:05
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lcuklol both15:05
* lcuk isnt really interested but you asked us15:05
wazdfucking app menu, I hate you15:05
aquatixwazd: rest assured15:06
aquatixit hates you too15:06
lcukis that a new input method?15:06
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RST38hlcuk: no, lunch. what did you think it was?15:06
* aquatix needs a double espresso15:06
aquatixbrb15:06
lcukRST38h, i dunno when you vanished15:06
lcukanyway, my turn to go15:07
lcukback alter folks15:07
RST38hMeanwhile: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/4283328/Pedigree-dogs-are-becoming-stupid-as-we-breed-them-for-looks-not-brains.html15:07
RST38h(not only the dogs, right? ;))15:07
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aquatixRST38h: still talking about that paris hilton person?15:10
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RST38haquatix: ....mirror mirror on the wall...15:13
aquatixwho's the dumbest of all?15:13
* RST38h assumes a non-involved look15:14
RST38haquatix: you skipped "us" =)15:14
* aquatix isn't too good looking thankfully ;)15:14
aquatixghehe15:14
aquatixRST38h: well, we're JaBoG right? (just a bunch of geeks)15:14
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aquatixi think there are not many supermodels in here15:15
* aquatix shuts up15:15
* aquatix feels some people staring at him15:16
RST38haquatix: but for EU/US overally, the trends look worse =)15:16
b-man|grogyhehe15:16
aquatixRST38h: :)15:17
* aquatix makes note to self not to breed too good looking kids15:17
jaskawith my genes generating good looking ones would be pretty hard :)15:18
wazdhow about that: http://s44.radikal.ru/i103/0901/7e/496b338d836e.png15:18
aquatixas an upside, that might mean they're more likely to be involved in IT too15:18
aquatixjaska: :)15:18
aquatixwazd: interesting, blut a tad cluttery15:18
RST38hwazd: thick top/bottom bars on the menus are somewhat ugly15:18
aquatixwhere's that first `spike' from, just right of the mer logo?15:19
RST38hwazd: and the menu popping up from the center is totally wrong looking15:19
wazdRST38h: well, right now me're discussing more UX than detailed design :)15:19
RST38hwazd: I suggest you keep the menu icon at the far left and move task icons to the right - even if they are not separated from the status icons, it should be ok15:20
aquatiximho, it's better to have the menu pop up from somewhere quite left15:20
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aquatixwazd: and maybe remove that spiky-looking seperator, it adds to the clutter15:20
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aquatixwithout it it looks better i think15:20
aquatixreplace it with the menu?15:20
aquatixthen you're done15:21
aquatixit think it will look rather nice then15:21
* wazd is gonna kill that b**ch in stilletos from above15:23
AStormhello15:23
aquatixwazd: ah, always fun those people...15:23
AStormdo we have some neat fast implementation of *universal* hash tables for C++15:23
AStormbuilt for maemo?15:23
AStormesp. for very large tables15:23
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RST38hwazd: How? Those heels are deadly!15:26
AStormor any other structure for quick bit check15:26
aquatixRST38h: for her ankels, yes15:26
AStorm(existence)15:26
AStormaddition doesn't have to be fast15:26
aquatixAStorm: maybe a map?15:28
AStormyes, which is a hash table15:28
AStormmust be O(1) check15:28
aquatixyeah15:28
AStormor amortized O(1)15:28
RST38hAstorm: bitmap15:28
aquatixisn't it in stl?15:28
aquatixstd::map or something15:28
* RST38h cringes at the mention of stl15:28
AStormRST38h: yes, but a very large number of values15:28
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RST38hAStorm: hash then15:28
AStormaquatix: default std::map uses binary tree - O(log n)15:29
AStormRST38h: yes, any lib with one?15:29
aquatixAStorm: ah :(15:29
RST38hAStorm: No. Do you need a lib?15:29
wazdRST38h: I have overcoming firepower :) perforator >:D15:29
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RST38hwazd: Start from the ceiling and up!15:29
aquatixwazd: wanna borrow my Nerf gun?15:29
RST38hAStorm: it is a trivial thing to write really15:30
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Jaffawazd: It's worth bearing in mind that the Fremantle menus aren't going to look like that.15:32
Jaffa(probably)15:32
AStormRST38h: but not trivial to write fast15:32
AStormand Google has done so15:32
RST38hAStorm: Trivial to write fast too15:32
AStormyeah right15:32
AStormfor millions of records15:33
RST38hAStorm: Do you wish to have malloc() there or not?15:33
AStormdynamic would be best, yup15:33
AStormas I don't know the actual amount of data15:33
RST38hAStorm: No, when you add an item, is malloc ok?15:33
AStormfor static, each table would have to be like, at least 65k records15:33
AStormif it's avoidable, then... better to lose it15:34
RST38hOk, then go with this:15:34
AStormare you trying to do it with a bloom filter?15:34
RST38hNo. I am doing it stupidly.15:34
AStormI tried one myself and had too many false positives - slow15:34
AStormhm?15:34
RST38hBut fast enough15:34
RST38hFor static hash: 1. statically define int Hash[MAX_SIZE]15:35
AStormyeah, except... I then need a proper hash function15:35
RST38h2. Define int HashFunc(Data)15:35
AStormyes, note, MAX_SIZE would be huge15:35
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RST38hNot necessarily15:35
AStormor at least there would be many tables15:35
Stskeepslmoura: what was the motivation for using .pyo instead of .pyc in the pymaemo bindings for python-osso btw?15:36
RST38h3. Add: for(J=HashFunc(Data);J<MAX_SIZE && Hash[J];++J) if(Hash[J]==Data break;15:36
AStormthe trick is that it's a hash from 2 integers and a boolena15:37
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AStormso, I need to design one for this15:37
AStormvery fast too15:37
AStormand not too colliding15:37
RST38hcontinued: if(J>=MAX_SIZE) fucked_up(); else if(Hash[J]) exists(); else Hash[J]=Data;15:37
AStormeh, no, that won't work15:37
RST38hIt will15:37
AStormI might have collisions15:37
AStormwould have to make Hash[J] a list15:38
RST38hIt is ok, it will place them to the next available spot15:38
RST38hno need to make it a list15:38
lmouraStskeeps, in the first versions (still current), we bytecompiled the modules using -OO in order to strip doctstrings and save space15:38
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lmouraspecially in 77015:38
AStormRST38h: note, the hash table will be heavily filled15:38
AStormso, open addressing will be *slow*15:38
AStormheavily as in I expect 80% load15:39
RST38hAStorm: if it will be heavily filled, screw hash, go with bitmap15:39
Stskeepslmoura: alright, and you needed to make special support in python for importing .pyos? (i saw a patch)15:39
AStormRST38h: sure15:39
lmouraStskeeps, currently we are working to get closer to the debian polices15:39
RST38hAStorm: one million records will require int Bitmap[32768]15:39
Stskeepslmoura: alright, sounds good - i've been adapting the bindings to Mer, so15:39
wazdSo you think this is better? http://s41.radikal.ru/i092/0901/fc/0591fe2f56d8.png15:39
RST38hAStorm: it is O(1) and simply like wood15:40
lmouraStskeeps, yeah, I saw that. It was something related to importing files inside a .zip15:40
Stskeepslmoura: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/pymer.png :)15:40
RST38hsimple15:40
aquatixwazd: imho, yes15:40
AStormRST38h: so, how would I use a bitmap?15:40
RST38hwazd: yea15:40
AStorm(note - 3 values -> n bit hash?)15:40
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Stskeepslmoura: alright, thanks for your answers :)15:41
RST38hAStorm: Add: Bitmap[hashFunc(Data)>>5]|=1<<(HashFunc(Data)&0x1F)15:41
SaBerIs there a rather universal way to find out the location of a maemo device?15:41
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AStorm32+32+1 bits, uhm15:41
RST38hAStorm: Has: return(!!Bitmap[hashFunc(Data)>>5]&(1<<(HashFunc(Data)&0x1F)));15:41
lmouraStskeeps, no problems :)15:41
GeneralAntillesSaBer, gpsd?15:41
AStormhmm, wait wait15:41
AStormwon't that collide?15:41
RST38hAStorm: No15:42
lcukany hash will collide, choose a reasonable algo15:42
RST38hAStorm: because the number of entries in your bitmap will corresond to the maximum amount of data15:42
RST38hAStorm: So, your hasfunc() will be an identity function and it will never collide15:42
aquatixwhy even use a hash then?15:42
aquatixah15:42
RST38haquatix: If you have very few filled values then you should use hash to save space15:42
AStormRST38h: 2**65 bits... quite many15:42
RST38haquatix: but AStorm says a lot of his values are actually filled15:43
aquatixAStorm: lol15:43
aquatixRST38h: myeah15:43
RST38hAStorm: Are you going to have this many?15:43
SaBerGeneralAntilles: I guess it's the best you can get. I'm porting an application from symbian, which checks the location from the country code. This will not of course work with a maemo device, as it has no phone...15:43
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AStormRST38h: hmm, let me think15:43
AStormah, I made a mistake too15:44
AStormit's actually 128 + 8 + 2 bits of data15:44
AStorm(5 ints, 1 byte, 2 bools)15:44
AStormI expect lowish values in 2 of the ints, so these could be converted to bytes too I guess15:45
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aquatixerm, you have 25.6 bit ints?15:45
AStormthen, it would be 6bytes, 2 bits15:45
AStormaquatix: maybe miscalced, whatever15:46
aquatix:)15:46
AStorm5bytes, 2 bools hmm15:46
AStormthat gives 42 bits15:46
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AStormplausible15:47
lcukAStorm, is this still your hash problem from a few days ago?15:47
AStormI can build a perfect bloom filter then15:47
* lcuk just ended up using md5 for something15:47
AStormlcuk: yes15:47
AStormmd5 is far too slow15:47
AStormI tried that earlier15:47
AStormeven Python fast hashing is too slow15:47
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aquatixcrc? :)15:47
lcukbloom filters are good if you choose the right info and dont have to rebuild it15:47
AStormaquatix: slower than bloom15:48
aquatixah, right15:48
AStormlcuk: no rebuilds :)15:48
lcuksince each bloom requires 32 or 64 or however many algo passes to create the item itself it takes time15:48
lcuk1 rebuild per key you try to lookup15:48
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AStormI don't have to create the item or even grab it really...15:48
AStormjust check for existence15:48
AStormah, no, I need to link it to an integer15:48
AStorm(meh weight ;P )15:49
lcukthe bloom filter is the ORed results of running multiple different algos on your key isnt it?15:49
AStormthe problem is that I can't index 42-bit directly15:49
lcukbinary trees?15:50
AStormtoo slow, tried it already15:50
AStormreally needs O(1)15:50
AStormfor existence check15:50
lcuki have a dictionary class in liqbase (internal build for now) which for any string given gives me a single 32bit wordscore15:50
AStormor close to O(1)15:50
AStormI'll write a chained table then I think15:51
lcukbuilding a wordscore takes longer, but then for every single comparison its simply a 32bit equivilence check15:51
AStormuhm, I can't have 2**42 ints...15:51
lcukso build once and check against potentially hundreds of other scores15:51
AStormfar too much space15:51
AStormyes, it's close to that15:52
hellso, maybe  don't understand something, why password, that sudo ask's is always incorrect?15:52
AStormactually, what I use in Python15:52
AStormbut that's too slow for some reason15:52
hellsudo does not say to me, that commend is not in sudoers, or user is not in, but incorrect assword15:52
GeneralAntilleshell, there is no password.15:52
AStormhell: edit /etc/sudoers15:52
AStormand there's no root pass by default I guess15:53
helli set it to default 'rootme'15:53
GeneralAntillesAStorm, sudser is in Extras15:53
GeneralAntillesuser has no password.15:53
AStormmhm15:53
AStormlcuk: so, any idea? existence check must be fast, grabbing that weight actually too15:53
hellGeneralAntilles: i only need to run /bin/bash, with no NOPASSWORD option.15:54
Stskeepssudoers.d15:54
AStormlcuk: at best I might limit weights to bytes, but it's... bad15:54
lcukastorm, i dunno if i do it right or wrong, i work entirely on strings and know for a complete object model i cannot continue to use strcmp()15:54
AStormlcuk: yeah, for that, hash table will be fast enough15:55
lcukso i  built a chartree and assign a score to each unique string15:55
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hellStskeeps: ok, i already add line to /etc/sudoers15:55
AStormI need a mapping these values -> weight and O(1)15:55
lcukastorm, hash table wont work - that requires allocation per item with children - theres THOUSANDS of children15:55
AStormalso, don't have petabytes of ram15:55
AStormhm, then you use a trie15:56
lcukthousands with children ^15:56
hellbut on my desktop, for example, it work, or give another errors that 'incorrect password'15:56
lcukyes (looking on wikipedia)15:56
AStormI can't use a trie - too slow lookups15:56
aquatix*tree15:57
lcukthats basically the tree, each leaf has a score assigned to it which is unique and thats what i (aim to) use for the lookups15:57
AStormaquatix: no, trie, it's a special kind of tree15:57
aquatixoh, a triary tree?15:57
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* aquatix googles15:57
AStormaquatix: no, use the wikipedia or google :)15:57
hellSo, it works, if i use 'NOPASSWD:', but i need password to enter)15:57
aquatixah right15:58
AStormlcuk: hmmmmmh... I actually only need to access certain *sequential* (with regards to a symbol) part of the weight15:58
AStormbut still need a quick check for existence15:58
lcukis this hwr still?15:58
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AStormyes, it is15:58
AStormneed to check for features quickly, then grab weight15:58
AStormthat's all15:59
AStormthere's *a lot* of them15:59
hellGeneralAntilles: have you a success stories with maemo's sudo with root password?)15:59
AStormas in exponential number15:59
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AStormalthough feature space is limited15:59
AStorm(one is 5bytes + 2 bits)16:00
lcukthere always  is, i cant remember how i implemented the lookup in vb its a long time ago16:00
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lcukwhy such an odd size16:00
AStorm2 numbers for angle and length16:00
AStorm1 number for "skips"16:00
AStorm2 bits for "stop" marker16:00
AStorm(as in invisible feature)16:01
AStormit's OSB - Orthogonal Sparse Bigram16:01
AStormthus the huge number of features16:01
AStormquality of detection is excellent - speed, not so much16:01
lcukreduce resolution, angle needs only to be in a certain range16:02
AStormyes16:02
AStormI did that already, quantized to 5 degrees16:02
lcukuse each property as a branch in the tree16:02
AStormlength is quantized too16:02
lcukie level1 == split on just the angle16:02
AStormhmm, no, I have to check for existence, then grab weight16:02
lcukthen within the angle another subbranch16:02
AStormif I had to traverse it, it'll probably take too long16:03
lcukonly 2-3 levels16:03
lcuknot long at all and with each step you reduce the space16:03
AStormhopefully.16:03
AStormI tried something like that and it didn't work16:03
lcuki think thats how i did mine with dependencies backwards and forwards - its basically just a compiler16:04
AStormbecause memory used was too huge16:04
AStormI need to compress somehow all these weights16:04
AStormthey're usually fairly low signed numbers16:05
lcukyou can make a single layer tree and recurse and hold cursors to all ongoing viable detection strokes16:05
lcukand when you reach the end of a chain you know you have a viable character16:05
AStormeh, I have detection done, thank you, decision tree is crummy16:05
AStormI just need a quick and space efficient lookup of the weights16:05
AStorm(for a huge feature space)16:06
AStormI can use microgrooming (that is, dropping features with weights close to 0), but it's just a workaround16:06
AStormstill have to somehow hold a large number of numbers ;P16:06
lcukyou dont have memory to hold large tables though do you?16:08
AStormnot *that* large (2**42 bytes)16:08
RST38hHow densely is it filled?16:08
AStormRST38h: as I said, densely, but usually with similar small values16:09
AStormwhere small is like, +/- 40 or so16:09
lcukyou compress and fold it up into a small tree as i described, not a decision tree but a results tree.  it will hold the same data you are hoping for but not in a single flat slab of memory16:10
AStormexcept it will still take the same amount of memory16:10
AStormand I don't have that much16:10
lcukno, it will start off taking up 0 bytes16:10
AStormI can live with at worst 32 MB16:10
lcukand only grow as you fill it16:11
AStormmhm, nice16:11
AStormlike, it will be a small btree?16:11
AStormwith broad levels?16:11
lcukso you can also cull the worthless brranches and speed up later as well16:11
lcukyes16:11
AStormhm, hopefully it will *not* become as full as it currently is16:11
lcukyes, it shouldnt need to16:11
RST38hAStorm: Are you checking for the presence of a certain value or for a 42bit address beign filled16:12
RST38h?16:12
lcukanyway, must dash16:12
AStormangles are almost fully dispersed16:12
AStormbut lengths are not, there I can save space16:12
AStormRST38h: yes, and grabbing a number attached to it16:12
AStormalso, stop bit is rarely set16:13
AStormso, length is usually between 0 and 5, stop bits are usually 016:15
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AStormthis btree might actually work16:16
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RST38hMmm....16:19
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AStormand the number of skips is likely to be small too16:25
RST38hThis is all not very important for choosing a data structure16:25
AStormvery important really, as size is limited16:26
AStormand lookup has to be O(1)16:26
RST38hYou only want your data structure to tell whether a certain data IS there or ISN'T, right?16:26
AStormthus, I can use a btree to have a constant time lookup (actually worst case log(6))16:26
AStormno16:26
Stskeepscan someone explain me the semantic difference for this? http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Task%3AMaemo_roadmap%2FFremantle&diff=9891&oldid=972116:26
AStormthen I could use a perfect bloom filter16:26
RST38hAStorm: So you want Find() not Has()?16:26
AStormboth16:26
RST38hO, it is Find() then16:27
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AStormContains to be fast, Find to be fast too16:27
AStormand not to eat bazillions of RAM16:27
RST38hNext question: how many DIFFERENT values are there?16:27
AStormfor angles, 360/quant16:27
hellso' as i understand, the one secure root sh is to setup openssh-server, and use ssh to localhost, fantastic.16:27
AStormfor length, hopefully not all that many16:27
RST38hSo at most 360 different values?16:27
RST38hHow many length values? Approximately?16:28
AStormfor stop, it's a bit16:28
AStormhmm, mostly low as in < 10 (which is 1 cm)16:28
RST38hOk16:28
AStormnah, wait16:28
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AStorm100 is 1 cm16:28
RST38hThen we are talking about 10*360*2=7200 different values?16:28
RST38h72000 different values?16:28
AStorm(100*360/5*2)**2 * up to about 1016:29
RST38hWhat is the total number?16:29
AStorm207360000016:29
AStormand at worst each having a byte attached16:30
RST38hthe abov3e expression does not evaluate to this total16:30
AStormit does - checked in Python16:30
AStormI expect length to be up to 7 bit (127)16:30
RST38hok16:31
RST38h"up to about 10" means 10?16:31
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AStorm3344509440L - then16:31
AStormyes16:31
AStormquite a few16:31
AStormeach possibly with a small number attached16:31
AStormlong lengths are unlikely16:32
AStormand that bit is usually 016:32
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RST38hLet us use  (100*360/5*2) as hash size16:32
RST38h14400 entries, i.e. 14bit hash keys16:32
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AStormthen I'd need 2 lookups to find the entries16:32
AStormhmmh16:32
AStormand weight is attached to "sum" of them16:33
AStormI need to lookup whole values16:33
RST38hEach hash entry will point to a binary tree16:33
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RST38hor, actually, btree, they are more efficient16:33
AStormexcept a pointer is 32-bit16:33
AStorm:P16:33
RST38hno problemo at all16:33
RST38h2^15 32bit pointers16:34
AStorm65 KB hash table16:34
RST38hpointing to btrees16:34
RST38h64kB hash table is nothing by today's standards16:34
AStormbut the weight is attached to 2 such "features" and a number of skips16:34
AStormnot the other way16:34
RST38hok, so you want crosslinks?16:34
AStormexactly16:34
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AStormthat's why **216:35
RST38hno no16:35
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AStormany to any16:35
RST38hbut it is a different structure :)16:35
AStormI said it is16:35
RST38hhow many crosslinks can point to a single feature?16:35
AStormmany16:35
RST38hhow many can point FROm a single feature?16:35
AStormI expect at least 516:35
AStormfrom - many too16:35
RST38hok16:35
RST38hthinking16:36
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AStorma flat array of bytes, that many, will cost 12 GB, sorry, can't do16:37
RST38hnaah16:37
AStormso I have to save space where I can16:37
AStorm(of 127*360/5*2 -> 127*360/5*2, times 10)16:38
AStorm(times 5 really, blah)16:38
AStormI missed with a comma, it's closer to 1 GB16:38
AStormstill too huge16:38
RST38hUse k-d tree16:39
RST38hYou basically have two dimensions16:39
AStorm2 + bit16:39
RST38hThe first level of btree nodes will divide your space by dimension #1 ("from")16:39
RST38hThe second level will divide by dimension #2 ("to")16:40
AStormhow will that save me memory?16:40
RST38hYou obviously will not get O(1) though :)16:40
AStormhm16:41
AStormas long as it's extremely fast, it will do16:41
RST38hWell, if you were doing it with an array, it would be 2^(14+14)=2^2816:41
RST38hspace-wise16:41
AStorm2^30 actually16:41
RST38hyea, in bytes16:41
AStorm(2 bits), and * say 8, so, 2^3116:41
AStormwhich is too much16:41
lcukcalculate vector length, do lookup if you get a match, then calculate angle and lookup using that second subtree, you are talking about only a few new vectors per second (its hwr) this is entirely doable16:41
RST38hBut doing it with a btree you save space. As for the items themselves, having a 64kB hash is ok16:42
AStormlcuk: except "few new vectors" isn't all that true, but indeed length is usually small16:42
AStormI don't need to lookup single items, only whole16:42
lcukyes, really it is a few small vectors, i work in strokes all day16:42
RST38hAStorm: you will start from a k-d btree then16:42
RST38hAStorm: here is another idea16:43
lcukor are you weighing every single point of every single stroke ever encountered in realtime?16:43
RST38hAStorm: screw angles/lengths and use rectangles instead16:43
AStormno can do, rectangle takes more data16:43
AStormwidth and height at least16:44
AStormwhich would be the same as angle+length16:44
AStormand I'd have to go with negative widths and/or heights or lose data16:45
RST38hBUT by doing simple computation you can recover x,y,w,h form your a+l pair16:45
AStormpity :>16:45
AStormbut I don't need x,y,w,h16:45
RST38hSo you can store a+l as much as you like but use w+h for indexing16:45
AStormand x,y,w,h is far too much data to index16:45
AStormhmm, except it would have false positives16:45
RST38hwait wait wait16:46
AStormcan't distinguish left/right and up/down16:46
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AStormso, angle and length it is16:46
RST38hSo, you have got two a+l pairs. And you are recording a LINK between them?16:46
AStormexactly16:46
AStorm(and a number of skips)16:46
RST38hBasically, what you are recording is a VECTOR then16:46
* sisto is happy16:46
AStormbut a 5-valued vector16:46
AStormmeaning a huge one16:46
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RST38hIt is a vector.16:46
RST38hx,y,w,h16:47
RST38hor x,y,a,l16:47
AStormI'd need two of those16:47
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RST38hor 2 x a,l16:47
AStorm2x a,l really16:47
AStormplus 2 bits plus number of skips16:47
RST38hAStorm: Instead of recording 2x a,l, just use rectangles.16:47
RST38hAStorm: Put them into an R-tree16:47
RST38hAstorm: store your extra bits at the leaves16:48
RST38hYou are done.16:48
AStormehhh.. did I already mention that rectangles lose direction?16:48
RST38hthey do not16:48
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RST38hnegative w,h are quite possible16:48
* aquatix has lost direction16:48
AStormI'll have to store it still16:48
sistotesting16:48
AStormsisto: working16:48
AStormRST38h: I see what you mean16:48
RST38hso you are not losing anything16:48
AStormhmmm.....16:48
sistoAStorm: sorry i was testing my x-chat message color16:49
RST38hjust looking at the same shit from a different errr... angle16:49
AStormso, it's actually 2 points, number of skipped features16:49
AStormand optionally 1 point, blank, -116:49
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AStormthe trick is, this "feature point" has to be generated from hwr input16:50
sistoignore this test message16:50
AStormand not bound to the actual plane or DPI16:51
AStorm*actual place16:51
AStormhmm, I *can* convert these to single features...16:53
AStormRST38h: thanks for the idea, now I can reduce dimensionality16:53
sistoOT: do java applets work in the browser in maemo?16:53
AStormno16:54
AStormunless you build us a JVM16:54
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AStormwhich is not entirely impossible16:54
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sistoAStorm: that would be nice... i was thinking about yahoo games compatibility16:55
AStormthat uses Java 1.5, right? hmmm, *maybe* it could work with GNU Classpath16:55
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AStormbut I guess speed will be abysmal16:55
woglindehi16:55
woglindeastrom depends16:55
StskeepsAStorm: speed of yahoo games is always abysmal :P16:56
woglindelol16:56
AStormStskeeps: then it would be unusable on NIT16:57
herwoodhi16:57
herwoodDoes anybody know that is Bluetooth-module available in Maemo's Qt?16:57
woglindeherwood hm16:57
woglindeI think you mean qtopia16:58
herwoodhmm16:58
woglindeor what you mean with bluetooth modul?16:58
herwoodI mean this: http://qt4.garage.maemo.org/16:59
herwoodsorry16:59
herwoodhttp://doc.trolltech.com/qtextended4.4/bluetooth.html16:59
herwoodthis16:59
woglindeah16:59
herwoodI'm trying to send a file via Bluetooth16:59
AStormRST38h: so, I'll need width, height, number of quarter (2 bits), 2 bits stop, 4 bits skip16:59
woglindeqt4 is normal qt16:59
woglindenot qte16:59
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AStormthat is 3 byte address, 1 byte attached16:59
sistoOT again: is there a way to replace the sidebar or change the function of the icons?16:59
woglindethere was another project trying qtopia but didnt heard of them never more17:00
woglindeand if they ever swtiched to qte17:00
AStormsisto: yes and yes - sidebar can be disabled17:00
AStormand you can change all icons (there are examples)17:00
herwoodhmm17:00
AStormbut can't lose the "task list" and "task switch" icon17:00
AStormI think17:00
RST38hAstorm: you will need xy17:00
herwoodwoglinde: what about the bluetooth support? Can I somehow send a file by using OBEX OPP?17:00
sistoAStorm: thanks!17:00
AStormRST38h: no, I don't - because now I have angle/len anyway17:01
AStormit doesn't have to be attached anywhere (OSB records some measure of "causality")17:01
RST38hAStorm: just drop angle/len and have x1y1-x2y217:01
AStormone byte, even?17:02
AStorminstead of w,h?17:02
RST38hAStorm: the links nonsense will automatically go away17:02
Stskeepsherwood: there's bluez and obex stuff in maemo17:02
lcukRST38h, ugly and harder to track "similar" vectors17:02
AStormI still need the length17:02
AStormnot just the scalar17:02
RST38hlcuk: Oh, not harder, just requires an extra index which is no problem17:02
RST38hAStorm; you can compute the length all right17:02
AStormfrom a scalar? tell me how ;P17:03
AStormor, how to get the angle17:03
RST38hAStorm: sqrt(x1^2+x2^2)17:03
sistois there an awn port to maemo? (or similar)17:03
AStormthe angle is *required* - has to be directly or indirectly stored17:03
RST38hAStorm: angle? atan(x1/y1)17:03
AStormbut I don't have x1 or y1 in (x1y1-x2y2)17:03
AStormthey're not free variables17:04
RST38hAStorm: by "-" I meant a dash :)17:04
AStormah, then it's 4 bytes17:04
AStormsorry, no can do17:04
AStormit's not better17:04
AStormI want to save space, not waste17:04
RST38hAStorm: it is better when you consider how much easier it is to index17:04
RST38hYou will end up saving space17:04
AStormit's not easier at all, because I want to have the features position independent17:04
woglindeherwood hm via the commandline all the obex commands should work17:05
AStorm(for increased generality and lower number of features)17:05
* RST38h does not know what features are but from given conditions it looks like AStorm just operates with regular vectors17:05
AStormvectors of vectors17:06
lcukastorm, i work on entire strokes and normalize everything within a 1.0*1.0 frame.  its totally resolution independent, if i am working with a combined character i choose one stroke and scale others within the initial range as well17:06
AStormOSB is (feat, feat, skip)17:06
AStormfeat is (angle, len, stop)17:06
AStormso, I can actually merge the two feats for space savings17:06
AStormlcuk: I do so too, but I don't want to store points - that ties it too much to relative position17:07
herwoodwoglinde: ok, thanks. I'm still a bit lost with this Qt.17:07
woglindeherwood hm?17:08
AStormRST38h: I can actually have this changed to: (width, height, skip, stop, stop)17:08
AStormhmm, though it would lose the length... meh17:08
AStormfalse positives again17:08
herwoodwoglinde: ?17:08
woglindeherwood if you dont describe your problem we cant help you17:09
AStormRST38h, lcuk - join a #tmp-hwr for a while17:09
herwoodwoglinde: Sorry about that, I didn't get it at first. So let me describe my problem a little bit more:17:11
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herwoodwoglinde: So, I'm trying to send a file via Bluetooth to another device by using OBEX OPP. I know other device's BT-address but the only problem is that I do not know how to use the OBEX in Qt. I've previously implemented the same app by using glib and there was this library called gw-obex which I could use to access OBEX.17:15
herwoodgw-obex offered all the functionlity which I needed: set the callback functions for progress- and disconnect-signals and gw_obex_put_file -function which sent the actual file.17:17
herwoodso now I'm trying to do the similar operation but under Qt17:17
woglindeherwood hm okay17:17
Stskeepsherwood: we still have gw-obex really, and Qt is a widget framework17:18
Stskeepstwo different goals :P17:18
Stskeepshttp://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node10.html#SECTION00102410000000000000017:18
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woglindeherwood hm I would asking at #qt frist17:19
woglindeherwood it seems the bt support is not in the normal qt only in qte17:20
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herwoodStskeeps: I think I'm having some sort of noob mistake here now. So if I'll include the gw-obex.h -file in my code, I'll get a bunch of errors17:22
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wazdcan anybody suggest small phone that has bt and edge in it? Possibly cheap :)17:27
RST38hwazd: Samsung U10017:27
wazdsince my 2630 is going to die soon :(17:27
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wazdRST38h: well, aren't samsungs bad at software?17:28
aquatixwazd: you're about to drop it in your drink?17:28
RST38hwazd: Dunno. U100 is so stupid that there is hardly any software there17:29
aquatixwazd: a sony ericsson phone maybe?17:29
aquatixi quite like those17:29
johnxgronk17:29
johnxyeah, se makes ok dumb-phones17:29
wazdtv-out, omfg :D17:30
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woglindehi qwerty17:32
qwerty12hey woglinde17:33
wazdmaybe something from Philips Xenium series - they appear to work for weeks :)17:33
wazdqwerty12: hey there)17:33
qwerty12hi wazd :)17:33
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* qwerty12 curses himself for using "set -e" with maemo-confirm-text involved17:36
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johnxahaha...RIM's blackberry app-store-thing uses synaptic's icons17:37
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t_s_oheh, i would have loved to test out one of those philips phones, if they where available here...17:41
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johnxsure are a lot of them17:43
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johnxahaha...a *month* of standby?17:47
aquatixyep17:47
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aquatixreminds me of the grayscale Palm devices too btw17:47
johnxwonder how the heck they get that out of 900mAh17:47
* qwerty12 notes at the expense of features. But maybe I'm one of those people who expects everything from a phone.17:47
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aquatixweeks of working on it on 1 charge17:48
johnxqwerty12, yeah, I'm spoiled now. :/17:48
qwerty12johnx, hah, I don't even know what you guys have there in Japan :P17:48
johnxI just have the free w/ contract sony ericson thing: 3G, tethering, 2mp camera (reads qr codes), AGPS, opera and supports rfid payment17:49
johnxthat was free w/ contract in summer 200717:49
aquatixsounds like a nice companion to a NIT17:50
johnxno bt though17:50
aquatixoh17:50
aquatixmeh17:50
* qwerty12 wouldn't mind that :). I have a "standard" se phone (ENEA OSE) and it uses NetFront as the lame wap browser17:50
johnxI could tether my zaurus with IRDA...ahaha17:50
aquatixwell, nowadays you would have17:50
aquatixjohnx: lol17:50
johnxagps is *fast* though and saved my butt a couple times17:51
johnxbut data costs are a killer17:51
aquatixoh, no flat-fee 3G?17:51
johnxI could for the equivalent of ~$90 a month17:51
aquatixwhoa17:51
johnxthat would be total phone bill though17:52
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aquatixi have a (slowish) flat-fee subscription for 7 EUR/month17:52
aquatixthat's throttled to 128kbit though17:52
aquatixah17:52
aquatixthat 7 EUR is extra on my gsm subscription17:52
johnxright now my whole plan with like ~10MB is $30/month17:52
aquatixhm17:52
aquatix10MB...17:52
johnxif I go over 10MB it costs more but after a certain amount it retroactively signs me up for the unlimited for that month17:53
aquatix*g*17:53
aquatixwell, that's rather nice of course17:53
johnxso, no matter how much I use I can never go over $100/month in data costs17:53
aquatixbut still :)17:53
* aquatix thinks that's still quite a bit17:53
aquatixbut i'm a cheapskate i guess17:53
johnxit's a lot but it's much more friendly than US carriers17:54
johnxthey'd bill you $1000 and laugh all the way to the bank even if they lost you as a customer17:54
aquatixtrue17:54
aquatixthat's why i'm glad i live in europe17:54
qwerty12^17:54
woglindehehe17:54
qwerty12After hearing stories, I've come to an conclusion that US carriers leave a lot to be desired17:55
johnxyup. and they're 1,000 times better than the Canadian ones17:55
johnxI think the root cause in the US/CA is limited competition17:56
aquatixyeah17:56
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aquatixi'm quite sure of that17:56
* johnx slaps US anti-trust enforcers with a frozen trout. "wake up!"17:56
qwerty12The carriers have them in their pay :P17:57
aquatixyeah17:57
aquatixlobbyists17:57
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qwerty12Although a lot of the US only phones (CDMA and the like) are pretty cool. I wouldn't mind trying one here but all our networks here are GSM & UMTS etc17:58
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johnxyeah, when I'm eventually back in the states it will be a tough call whether to sell my soul and go cdma or try to stick with gsm17:59
qwerty12Don't go the dark side!17:59
johnxtwo words: palm pre17:59
RST38hjohnx: One word: VERIZON18:00
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RST38hjohnx: Scared already? =)18:00
johnxRST38h, even worse: Sprint18:00
RST38hurgh18:00
johnxyeah18:00
johnxdon't see any interesting options though18:00
RST38httg home though18:00
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GeneralAntillesjohnx, the GSM Pre will be out eventually.18:01
johnxyeah, I might hold out18:01
johnxbut sprint also has the best data network18:01
GeneralAntillesDo they?18:02
johnxsays gizmodo who I'm inclined to believe hate *everyone* enough not to take sides18:02
* AndrewFBlack wishes we had a application that pulled movie showtimes from http://www.google.com/movies for local theaters and saved them on tablet for offline viewing.18:03
GeneralAntillesSurely that must be region dependent, though.18:03
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johnxGeneralAntilles, of course18:03
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johnxbut it was pretty clearly spring in the lead or following closely in second in the regions they tested18:03
johnxstill, i have *no* idea how much traveling I'll be doing18:04
johnxhard to figure out priorities when I don't even know of cdma vs gsm will matter to me18:04
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* qwerty12 curses his firefox showing "colour" as a spelling error18:08
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johnxfix your locale?18:08
qwerty12I think my locale is already en_GB but Ubuntu didn't see apt to install the en_GB dictionary for firefox :)18:09
johnxtoo bad the g1 has such crap battery life :/18:10
* GeneralAntilles found a key in his wallet and doesn't know what it's for.18:12
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johnxuhm, it means you're the one and you can destroy the matrix? either that or you put your stuff in a locker at the train station/bus stop/airport and forgot to get it back :)18:14
GeneralAntillesReal key18:14
GeneralAntillesSo it's not a locker or safe.18:14
* GeneralAntilles is a little scared now18:14
GeneralAntillesThat's the kind of thing I would remember doing.18:15
johnxcar key? house key?18:15
RaytrayYou got rid of your memory and the key is the only way of saving the world. Expect two men in black to come get you?18:15
johnxis it a copy or an original?18:15
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GeneralAntillesjohnx, house. Probably a copy.18:16
johnxhuh18:16
johnxodd18:16
GeneralAntillesQuite18:17
woglindehi ga18:17
GeneralAntillesHi, woglinde.18:18
johnxfront door key to the playboy mansion?18:18
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X-FadeKey to the white house of course ;)18:19
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X-FadeGA for president ;)18:19
GeneralAntillesSadly I don't have the time or money to travel to either of those places. :P18:19
GeneralAntillesInauguration speech: "Fuck you all!"18:19
johnxwell then you'd best sell it on ebay :)18:19
X-FadePretty funny.. CNN will have satellite images of the crowd there ;)18:19
johnxthis means we're finally in the future, right?18:20
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Stskeepsjohnx: laser beam from satelitte hack18:28
Stskeeps:P18:28
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Stskeepsi mean, if it's google's sattelite.. then noone would be surprised that google was actually just a front for SkyNet..18:28
johnxbut, but,...they said they wouldn't be evil :(18:29
Stskeepsjohnx: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/pymer.png btw18:29
Stskeepson x86 and armel18:29
johnxwhat app is that?18:30
StskeepsMigara or something like that18:30
Stskeepsi don't recall18:30
qwerty12mirage18:30
Stskeepsmirage, yeah18:30
johnxholy craps! pymaemo is working?18:30
Stskeepswe still need python-conic and other things, but, yeah18:30
Stskeepsand i had to patch pygtk18:30
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johnxcongrats though. looks great18:30
qwerty12You still need a way of having conic pass a successful connection event ;)18:31
Stskeepsyeah..18:31
Stskeeps:P18:31
johnxgwah...connecting py-conic to nm?18:32
Stskeepsor libconic itself18:32
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johnxso, libconic is open source, right? but it's purpose is to be an interface to icd, right?18:33
Stskeepsdbus interface18:33
LinuxHack3rsisto: Finally recieved an answer to my email. I was told that backorders are usually filled within 10-14 days, but they really don't have the slightest clue. I'd be entirely happy to get it within the 1st month of February.18:33
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sisto1st day?18:33
sisto:)18:33
sistothat's nice to hear18:34
qwerty12johnx, pretty much. it can request a disconnect & connect from icd, retrieve current proxy settings, see current state of wlan connectivity etc18:34
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johnxsisto, maybe he has longer februaries where he comes from :)18:34
johnxqwerty12, so hopefully we just need a simple wrapper for 90% functionality18:34
qwerty12Would be nice :)18:35
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LinuxHack3rsisto: I meant first week. I guess that makes more sense.18:37
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wazdRST38h: I'm done with Spec icon)18:45
* johnx <3 screen18:47
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wazdwell, something like that: http://i051.radikal.ru/0901/57/726a406bfaeb.png18:54
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wazdRST38h: gone to your e-mail18:58
Stskeepsheh, danish tv quality "and now the oath will be given to Powell"18:58
Stskeepsalways good with correctness18:58
Stskeeps:P18:58
wazdStskeeps: what do you think bout that layout?) http://s39.radikal.ru/i085/0901/39/39d110fce1fb.png19:00
johnxwazd, I know you weren't asking me, but I think that looks totally awesome :)19:00
wazdjohnx: oh, and you too ofcourse :)19:01
Stskeepswazd: can we do an activity walkthrough of it?19:01
Stskeeps(i'm reading for HCI exam tomorrow :( :( :()19:01
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Stskeepswazd: looks quite interesting19:02
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wazdStskeeps: I've moved app menu button to the left19:02
Stskeepsit matches cos its similar place to the title bar previously i guess19:02
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wazdStskeeps: well, menu in the center was a total crap :)19:03
Stskeepsi guess we can only first see the true value when an interactive prototype is made19:04
wazdStskeeps: it looked good in the statusbar but menu itself was very badly positioned19:04
Stskeepsmaybe in flash and such19:04
johnxgah, I really wish I could see what Nokia planning with regards to hildon-desktop19:06
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GeneralAntillesjohnx, yeah, obnoxious. :\19:09
johnxmeh. I wouldn't be worrying at all except that now wazd (and others) are putting forward these really nice mockups and I don't know whether I should try to see what's possible now or just wait19:10
Stskeepsjohnx: if anything, we can rely on h-d being very heavily based on clutter19:11
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Stskeepsand we want to continue with the h-d as it is now, as our baseline i guess19:11
johnxok, all I needed to hear :)19:11
Stskeepsif anything, we end up patching all those things in h-d that people wanted to do for ages :P19:12
johnxI'll finish up first-boot-wizard changes tonight and look at merging ubuntu patches into hildon-desktop19:12
Stskeepsk19:12
johnxagain, no promises on what I can accomplish besides giving it a good looking over :)19:12
Stskeepsyeah19:12
johnxopinions on having root and user password initially be set to the same thing?19:18
Stskeepseventually we won't have a "root" password, just user, similar to ubuntu model, i guess19:18
johnxah, so maybe we should move to ubuntu's sudo system now?19:18
Stskeepsthat's a possibility yeah19:18
Stskeepssudo is both the model in vista, and in ubuntu, so, that root usage is an exception19:19
johnxyup, I agree. experts can set a root password. woo! looks easy to do, just add a line to sudoers19:20
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Stskeepssudoers.d, i think we use maemo's sudo so19:20
johnxO_o19:20
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Stskeepshttp://repository.mer.tspre.org/pool/main/s/sudo/19:20
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Stskeepsintentional choice - ubuntu doesn't have /etc/sudoers.d19:21
johnxthe big change is just adding sudoers.d right?19:21
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Stskeepsmaking a file there yeah19:21
johnxok, great19:21
Stskeepsand sudoers.d is more sane regarding applications and all that stuff19:21
johnxdefinitely19:21
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johnxah *&$%19:22
johnxfull of 'user'isms :/19:22
Stskeepsyeah19:23
Stskeepswe can replace it with groups instead probably19:23
johnxyup, ubuntu's admin group should work well I think19:23
opengeekv2wazd: do you really moved the button?19:24
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opengeekv2i like more than others19:25
wazdopengeekv2: nope, I lied :D19:28
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opengeekv2ok nooo19:40
opengeekv2oh nooo19:40
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johnxopengeekv2, did you do your own mockup in gimp?19:41
opengeekv2yes19:41
opengeekv2cutting and pasting things from other screenshots and mockups XD19:41
opengeekv2desings of wazd are tro worked19:42
opengeekv2wazd: how you draw all this things?19:43
wazdopengeekv2: photoshop19:44
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opengeekv2do you have a lot of practice19:44
wazdopengeekv2: almost 7 years :)19:44
opengeekv2omg19:44
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wazdopengeekv2: my first PC was so slow that couldn't run any game, so I had to play with photoshop :)19:45
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opengeekv2hehe19:45
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opengeekv2i'll try to make a mockup of how i think that fullscreen should be19:46
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zenvoid_wazd: my first pc had no hard disk, so I had to play with hacking comand.com with an hexadecimal editor :-D19:54
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Stskeepsmy first pc was a 286 that was PC incompatible, so i had to write my own gfx drivers and printer drivers19:54
Stskeeps:P19:55
johnxheh...I got into the game really late.19:55
johnxmy only claim to fame is making an isa pnp modem and isa pnp sound card work at the same time in the same computer19:55
Stskeepsi had a UNIX machine standing in the next room since i was 8 :P19:56
Stskeepsit died of heat and us not knowing how to shut down the machine properly :P19:56
johnxmy mom knows COBOL :)19:56
Stskeepshehe19:56
* GeneralAntilles had AOL 1.0. ;)19:58
johnxI sometimes miss the circa-1997/1998 internet19:59
johnxthen I remember that the past sucks :)19:59
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zenvoid_and before my first PC I was having fun learning assembly language for the zilog Z80 processor (spectrum)19:59
Stskeepsi remember dialing up with trumpet winsock. and how amazing it was to be on a LAN20:00
Stskeeps:P20:00
Stskeepsas in, with an ip address etc20:00
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* johnx remembers re-compiling most of RH5.1 by hand20:00
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pupnik_i remember when Microsoft tried to prevent TCP/IP from being implemented on it's piece of shit operating system.20:02
zenvoid_johnx: oh, looks a familiar hobby, good! :)20:02
johnxzenvoid, every couple years or so I seem to end up re-compiling a distro by hand for some reason that seems good at the time20:03
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zenvoidjohnx: now that I know I'm not the only one in the world I really feel much better, man :)20:04
johnxI was trying to test gnome 0.54 and needed newer versions of libs. why were you recompiling everything?20:05
zenvoidjohnx: ..... I don't know :S20:05
johnxmy friend in high school thought I was crazy20:06
johnxtook me more than a day to recompile XFree86 3.3.x20:06
zenvoidthe knowledge adquired by compiling things, or assembling a distro from scratch, is always very handy20:08
johnxyes20:08
zenvoidmaybe that's my reason: just to learn and see what happens20:08
johnxit's kind of a rite of passage though :)20:08
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zenvoidhaha :)20:08
johnxsomething to do once and then realize why you don't do it all the time :)20:09
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zenvoidin my case I need to do it two or three times, but yes, agree :)20:10
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wazdjohnx: oh, my mom knows COBOL too xD20:12
johnxahaha. awesome20:12
johnxI bet my mom could beat your mom at tetris20:12
johnx:D20:12
wazdI don't think so cause my mom is descriptive geometry professor :D20:13
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johnxaaah, interesting. My mom has a masters degree in math though. Might be fun :)20:14
wazdjohnx: battle of titans :)20:14
zenvoidXD funny thread20:15
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* Guest90884 [W2I=000:u:0:000:]20:25
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Khertan_n810Hello !20:25
lardmanhello :)20:25
johnxmornin' Khertan_n810 and lardman :)20:25
Khertan_n810Just a question about gtk.Image20:25
Khertan_n810how can i know the space available for my pixbuf to render20:26
lardman"morning" all :)20:26
qwerty12*cough* morning *cough* ;P20:26
Khertan_n810if size_request answer me tghe size of the actual displayed pixbuf ?20:26
lardmanqwerty12: ;)20:26
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Khertan_n810no idea ?20:27
inzKhertan, the first question I have is what are you doing20:27
Khertan_n810diplaying a jpg file in mNote20:28
Khertan_n810s20:28
inzKhertan, first answer would be GTK_WIDGET(...)->allocation20:28
Khertan_n810allocation return me 1,120:29
inzKhertan, so you want to scale the shown image to the size of the GtkImage?20:29
Khertan_n810in width,height20:29
inzKhertan, when did you call it?20:29
Khertan_n810inz: yep20:29
Khertan_n810inz after he gtk.Image.show()20:29
Khertan_n810far away after20:29
inzKhertan, you probably need to do it in (or after) "size-allocate" signal20:30
timelE61ihi inz20:30
inzKhertan, one problem is that the image set for a GtkImage changes the size the widget requests20:30
inzHi timeless20:30
woglinde_re20:30
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timelE61iJohnx: fwiw i just spent an hour or more pointing out problems in hildondesktop to the layout owner20:31
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Khertan_n810inz: hum ... setting while size-allocate signal will not help as when i want to change the image i want to resize it before20:32
Khertan_n810this is a while(True) problem20:32
johnxtimelE61i, I'll take that as another vote for mer to 'do its own thing' :)20:32
inzKhertan, after the size-allocate has been sent, ->allocation should be correct20:33
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timelE61ipLease20:34
johnx:D20:34
* johnx gets unlazy20:35
lardmanis the rss reader source online somewhere?20:35
* lardman is looking for an example of using libconic20:36
timelE61iif nokia's ideas are good, copying them shouldn't be too hard20:36
johnxlardman, i believe so.20:36
qwerty12lardman, diablo one: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/o/ (search rss)20:36
johnxlardman, IIRC, it started life as liferea20:36
timelE61imxr diablo has feedreader20:36
timelE61iIn case you prefer the xref20:36
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lardmanqwerty12: cool thanks, I was looking at svn repo20:36
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johnxtimelE61i, I understand if you can't answer this, but could you comment on whether fremantle hildon-desktop requires clutter?20:37
timelE61iI'm not sure what the current public story is about src control20:37
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timelE61iBut there's currently a discussion about getting a better story20:37
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timelE61iJohnx: i'm fairly certain i couldn't comment on that20:38
timelE61iDoes it in the sdk?20:38
Khertan_n810inz: thx for help20:38
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johnxtimelE61i, not presently20:38
johnxyeah, don't worry about it. don't want you to get in trouble20:39
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timelE61iDoes anything?20:39
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timelE61iTo be honest, i'm not really sure what clutter is20:39
Khertan_n810ini ve understand the problem now ... it was a thread blocking the gtk event loop ... so gtk.Image was never sending size-allocate signal20:39
timelE61iWrt xref for fremantle, we got an xref for this week, but searching failed, not sure why yet20:39
timelE61iGlimpse complained20:40
timelE61iMy box is still w/o any network connectivity, so i can't try there20:40
johnxtimelE61i, seems to be a library to easily draw things (widgets, pictures) in 3D using hardware acceleration20:40
Stskeepsjohnx: i think of it more like a animation engine really20:41
Stskeepsa little like flash20:41
Stskeepsfor shiny effects20:41
johnxhmmm, guess that makes more sense20:41
timelE61iIf you could use it and were nokia and wanted to make something shiny. Where would you use it?20:41
timelE61iHeck, if you were ms or apple where did you use that?20:42
Stskeepsthe first boot wizard.20:42
johnxheh, the launcher and app switcher :) yeah, Stskeeps said that earlier.20:42
Stskeeps;)20:42
* johnx wants bash bindings for clutter20:43
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timelE61ifWiw, i have no access to anything atm20:43
Stskeepsjohnx: https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_roadmap/Fremantle#UI_Framework20:43
timelE61iBut it seems like there's some vaguely logical possibilities20:43
Stskeepsjohnx: it's basically replacing hildon-desktop, using matchbox2, and libnotify20:44
johnxStskeeps, ah! hadn't seen that. I figured you were just using intuition20:44
Stskeepsor whatever the notify it is20:44
Stskeepsjohnx: nop, straight fact and observing how nokia acted :P20:44
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johnxmy intuition was nagging me about h-d probably moving to clutter, but I didn't see confirmation until now20:45
johnxah well, Nokia will just have to see what they're missing then :)20:45
Stskeepswell since they "forward ported h-d to fremantle apis" as a gesture, it means the code is cut off ;)20:45
timelE61istskeeps: you cheated and read the plan?20:45
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StskeepstimelE61i: well this was together with tendancies seen on SVN, so :P20:46
Stskeepsbut yeah, plan definately confirmed things20:46
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timelE61iand stalked the coders20:46
timelE61iSuch an unfair advantage over the rest of us20:46
timelE61i;-)20:46
Stskeepsit's cheaper than getting a random nokia coder drunk20:47
Stskeeps:P20:47
* RST38h moos softly20:47
timelE61iFwiw, i'm told the browser team doesn't run desktop for testing20:47
woglinde_hi rst20:47
RST38hehlo woglinde20:47
inzKhertan, beware, gtk_image_set_pixbuf causes size-allocation signal20:47
lardmananyone know how to use conic?20:47
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johnxtimelE61i, they can borrow ours pretty soon :)20:47
timelE61iLardman: microb uses it20:47
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timelE61iJohnx: here are their requirements:20:48
timelE61i1. Doesn't crash20:48
timelE61i2. Doesn't crash20:48
lardmantimelE61i: yeah, that's probably a better bet than feed-reader, feed-reader connects at startup, which is not what I want20:48
timelE61i3. Can launch browser20:48
Stskeepsjohnx: has our h-d crash yet? :P20:48
Stskeepsexcept for a status applet doing it20:48
timelE61iI think that's all20:48
johnxStskeeps, not that I know of, even on 640x480 :)20:48
Stskeepsjohnx: except for that weird dbus-glib bug20:48
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timelE61iFeel free to guess why they stopped using h-d20:49
inzKhertan, this seems to work relatively well:20:49
inzArrg20:49
johnxtimelE61i, dur...because they don't like the color?20:49
RST38hN9x0 picture leaked: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/01/1-20-09-lg-handsets.jpg =)20:49
inzKhertan, http://pastebin.com/d4a43863f20:49
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johnxRST38h, from the bottom of my heart...20:49
johnxRST38h, zark off20:49
timelE61iLardman: search mxr for the conic header in microb-eal20:50
* RST38h grins at johnx and cackles evilly20:50
StskeepsRST38h: i can't take this much disappointment in a day :(20:50
Stskeeps:P20:50
wazdoh, 3 days ago I had my blog's birthday :)20:50
wazdRST38h: check your e-mail :)20:50
RST38hI don't think anyone will argue that the clickwheel is a good idea20:50
johnxclickwheel++20:50
RST38hwazd: Seen it - it is a png though =)20:51
timelE61iAren't those patented?20:51
wazdRST38h: oh, crap20:51
wazdRST38h: sorry :)20:51
* GeneralAntilles runs at RST38h with a knife.20:51
lardman~mxr20:51
johnxmighty mouse style 'mini trackball' would be even better, but those seem to have longevity issues20:51
GeneralAntillesI swear, I though I was going to click on something real.20:51
johnxGeneralAntilles, he get you too?20:51
RST38hwazd: But it looks cute =) Sure those buttons where blue?20:51
RST38hwere20:51
timelE61iMxr.maemo.org/diablo20:51
lardmanwhere's that infobot?20:51
RST38hGeneral: that was the purpose20:51
* RST38h hides20:52
lardmantimelE61i: thanks20:52
timelE61iEnter conic in the first box and microb-eal in the second20:52
johnxI think there's a pretty good case that a clickwheel is the same thing you see on every $5 mouse20:52
StskeepsRST38h: http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/bush_dies_peacefully_in_his20:52
RST38hjohnx: it is a bit simpler and cheaper actually20:52
RST38hjohnx: I have got one on the development board20:52
johnxRST38h, definitely. and more reliable. but did you ever try a mighty mouse in photo shop or similar?20:53
RST38hNaah, I do not do Mac20:53
wazdRST38h: mmm, maybe I have a photo with wrong white balance :)20:53
RST38hNo Photoshop either...20:53
johnxit's very, very handy20:53
* lardman wonders if he should wait on a semaphore and then trigger it from the conic callback to make his code synchronous20:53
RST38hwazd: Does not have to be the same as the photo, may look nicer with whiter keys20:53
johnxit's plain bt or usb. supported well in linux. i might pick one up20:53
wazdjohnx: mighty mouse is piece of shit, sorry for that :D20:53
johnxwazd, yeah, tends to get dirty quick. really nice while it lasts :)20:54
GeneralAntillesProblem with the mighty mouse is that the scrolling nipple clogs up with crap20:54
wazdjohnx: I've tried it, it became dirty in 4 days20:54
GeneralAntillesThen you can clean it.20:54
RST38hjohnx: it has got a nipple for the trackwheel though20:54
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I recommend the MX Revolution.20:54
wazdI hate hardware that I have to use with cases, gloves, masks and bio-suits20:54
johnxmeh, for a plain scroll mouse I prefer a 'microsoft basic'20:55
RST38hSts: that would be a disappointment20:55
wazdRST38h: I'll make them light gray then20:55
* RST38h actually agrees on MX Revolution. Had an older cheaper Logitech mouse of the same shape, worked like a charm20:55
wazdI like my Microsoft Habu :)20:55
RST38hwazd: either that or light wheat, whatever looks better on them20:56
johnxgotta say. ms makes really solid hardware. too bad they won't just stick to what they're good at :/20:56
StskeepsRST38h: i was watching for the missiles firing from the rooftops of washington when they flew away in a helicopter, but life just isn't fair like that.20:56
RST38hSts: You know the most surprising part?20:56
Stskeepshe went without kicking and screaming?20:56
RST38hSts: Quite often when we went to lunch back at UMD, his helicopter flew right over our heads20:57
Stskeepsah.20:57
Stskeepsthe surprising part was you didn't20:57
Stskeeps:P20:57
RST38hSts: Could probably shoot it with a handgun if there were any use for that20:57
Stskeepsyeah, better bush than cheney :>20:57
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RST38hSts: Anyways, this page is over, I am sure the next one will be just as "exciting"20:58
Stskeepsright. back to HCI reading. direct manipulation and instrumentness. yay. :P20:58
wazdRST38h: done20:59
wazdBetter Bush than Al Gore xD20:59
wazdAnd I'm serial!20:59
GeneralAntillesRST38h, the scroll wheel on the MX is the best.21:00
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wazdRST38h: btw there really was a modification with blue buttons :)21:01
Meizirkkiqwerty12: how the heck did you get that much light?21:01
RST38hGeneral: But does it really check your email? =)21:01
StskeepsMeiz_n810: python-gtk2, python-osso, python-hildon on armel now btw, feel free to test :P21:01
MeizirkkiStskeeps: ookay21:02
Stskeepsif you can find some packages from extras requiring just that21:02
RST38hwazd: Should have just pictured a Leningrad48 PCB =)21:02
wazdGeneralAntilles: The only logitech thing I have is Nano mouse, which was kidnapped by my GF :D21:02
johnxmousenapper121:02
johnx111!!11eleventeen21:02
qwerty12_N800Meiz_n810, it's a joke, i use a n800 remember? :p (but the image is real)21:03
RST38hwazd: Got it! Going to put it in as soon as I reboot to Linux21:03
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wazdRST38h: fine)21:03
wazdjohnx: I actually don't need it right now since I use wacom :)21:04
Meizirkkiqwerty12_N800: cool :P21:04
wazdWacom is the best mouse pointer in the world)21:04
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lcukjohnx, like i said, clutter == game engine21:07
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johnxlcuk, I thought about saying that, but I don't think it would have lead to more understanding :)21:07
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lcukheh, timeless was right as well, similar to flash with stages and actors21:08
johnxwell then for now it looks like polishing up h-d and giving you plenty of time to complete liq-laucher :)21:09
RST38hlcuk: afaik clutter != game engine21:09
RST38hlcuk: clutter is more like flash animations for glib21:09
lcukRST38h, it lets you throw models around the screen, it runs on a timeline and lets you interact21:10
RST38hlcuk: flash.21:10
lcukthe onmly thing it needs is a score table (which you can creat)21:10
woglindehi lcuk21:10
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RST38hlcuk: naah, throwing models on timeline basis does not make a game really21:10
johnxRST38h, there's a good argument that flash's best use is as a game engine21:10
* timelE61i knows very little about flash21:10
lcukwhat does?21:10
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lcukRST38h, if i wanted to make a 3d game in linux i would choose clutter21:11
timelE61ijohnx: have you played dick's decent to hell?21:11
johnxtimelE61i, not yet :)21:11
RST38hlcuk: You would choose OpenGL21:12
RST38hlcuk: Clutter is 2D21:12
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timelE61igl is too low level21:12
lcukgood point lol, i keep thinking about its underpinnings with gl21:12
RST38hjohnx: I don't know enough about flash but from what I know (timeline, vectors, javascript) it is best suited for a very specific type of games21:12
timelE61iMost people wrap it21:12
lcuktimelE61i, yeah and that wrapping is the game engine21:13
RST38hjohnx: it will not do as a generic game engine21:13
RST38hjohnx: myst-like adventures it will do very nicely though21:13
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johnxRST38h, my point being that it's more useful as 'some sort of game engine' than most other things it's used for21:14
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wazdhttp://alternativaplatform.com/ru/alternativa3d/21:14
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wazdflash 3D game engine)21:14
johnxtimelE61i, fun game. will get back to it when I have more time21:14
timelE61ihe didn''t want to write a game engine, just a game :?21:14
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* Guest90884 [W2I=000:u:0:000:]21:15
Khertan_n810hi again21:15
lcukhold on a minute21:15
pupnik_RST38h: originally, flash used no 2d/3d acceleration.  did they ever get around to supporting that?21:15
lcukif clutter is 3d only how the hell are we gonna get coverflow?21:16
lcuk2d21:16
Khertan_n810is there a way to understand on device why my icon isn t displayed in the taskbar ?21:16
lcukits 3d21:16
johnxlcuk, 2.5D?21:16
lcukjohnx, i was looking at it and everything has xyz21:16
wazdpupnik_: Flash 10 has 3D acceleration now21:16
lcukand however many rotations are required21:16
johnxwazd, on linux too?21:16
wazdjohnx: don't know)21:17
wazdjohnx: whatever xD21:17
johnx~lart flash on linux21:17
Khertan_n810when flash playerf will be open sourced it could be interesting ... else it s doesn t21:17
pupnik_flash didn't even implement the concept of layers in a way that would allow for fast compositing in software21:17
johnxI wish it wasn't around so people would be more motivated to work on alternatives21:18
johnxif IE didn't suck, I'm sure FF wouldn't be nearly as far along as it is21:18
lcuktechnically if it was an open spec and implementation then we wouldnt need alteratives21:18
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pupnik_i thought flash protocol was published21:18
timelE61iit is21:18
lcukpossibly, but everyone is playing catchup21:19
Khertan_n810the version 621:19
timelE61iiSn't silverlight an open spec?21:19
timelE61iSo was java/classpath and clr21:19
timelE61iheck, ms's office xml is open :)21:20
johnxwell, there's open and there's free...21:22
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timelE61iiirc c++ is nonfree21:24
timelE61iThe others iirc are all free21:24
timelE61i(sgml is another nonfree(@21:25
johnxI was under the impression that office xml was patent encumbered21:25
JaffaInteresting stuff about Hildon: http://osnews.com/story/20804/Ubuntu_Mobile_Looks_at_Qt21:25
johnxthough maybe the argument was it was just a pain21:25
RST38hpupnik: no idea, my guess is "no"21:25
timelE61iWell, you don't have to pay for a spec21:25
timelE61iSgml costs more than ten usd iirc21:26
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RST38hJaffa: The Hilton framework!21:26
JaffaRST38h:  Branches around the world...21:26
johnxtimelE61i, I meant 'free' in the RMS sense of the word :)21:27
timelE61inow that sounds tm encumbered :)21:27
oliany bluemaemo users here?21:27
RST38hjohnx: RMS has pretty much marginalized himself with his sense of the word21:28
johnxRST38h, yeah, but there is value in what he says21:28
johnxRST38h, discounting all of his ideas would be a silly mistake21:28
RST38hjohnx: his main idea was to create a viral license that forces anyone reusing licensed code to release his own code under the same license21:29
johnxRST38h, I'm failing to see exactly how that's a bad thing. seems to have worked out rather nicely21:30
GeneralAntillesJaffa, I like the guy comparing the iPod Touch's ARM11 to the Freerunner's ARM9.21:31
* zenvoid thinks the same than johnx21:32
GeneralAntillesOh god. Xbox LIVE went political.21:32
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RST38hjohnx: his definition of thus licensed code as "truly free" is obviously bogus21:33
johnxGeneralAntilles, yeah, I love the 'what boots faster' pissing contest. who the *$% reboots their phone/mp3 player/tablet all the time?21:33
RST38hjohnx: because free means no strings attached and this stuff attaches lots of strings21:33
GeneralAntillesjohnx, for serious.21:33
zenvoidRST38h: GPL tries to avoid the loose of freedoms21:34
RST38hjohnx: whether it is good or bad I have no idea though, depends on your outlook21:34
zenvoidRST38h: it depends on how you look at it21:34
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johnxRST38h, he took some liberties with language :) maybe it would be more accurate to say that a codebase is guaranteed free over its life21:34
RST38hjohnx: not really, it is guaranteed to be GPL-licensed, not free21:35
johnxs/free/RMS free/ :)21:35
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johnxand given that we're all talking about maemo linux not maemo netbsd I am inclined to call the GPL a more successful license21:36
lcukGNU/maemo linux ;)21:36
johnxheh21:37
johnxanyways, </end license discuss>. back to bash'ing21:37
timelE61ium. Did anyone talk about the iphone recently?21:37
lcukim gonna release the next version of liqbase under the microsoft open license21:37
* lcuk cowers21:37
johnxlcuk, that's ok. we'll fork from your existing code :)21:37
kozakHi all, would like to know if there is some work going on to have maemo on beagle board. I am a newbie... would like to contribute in some way to it21:37
timelE61iBecause that's bsd or rms-free (i.e. Free of rms)21:37
lcukjohnx, ive been waiting for that for a while ;)21:38
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lcukdoesnt look like anyone is taking me up on it21:38
Stskeepskozak: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint would probably apply :)21:38
lcuki made a fork after the summit, then brought it back in and then split again21:39
Stskeepsit should be trivial to put the maemo platform (hildon, etc) on top21:39
johnxkozak, well, the people inside Nokia claim to be putting some work into it, but the Mer project is also working on bringing the Maemo UI to an ubuntu distribution21:39
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lcukmaemo for my x41 suits me, its a touchable OS on a touchable device21:39
lcuki might rename liqbase21:40
johnxlcuk, hmm? you're already running mer or something else?21:40
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: btw, are we hijacking potential maemo platform users with Mer? :P i get worried about our behaviour at times :) I guess nokia's interest is in the use of their apis across the scope and everything21:40
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lcukno johnx, its not "there" for any device fully yet but it will be21:40
kozakyes I did see mer being mentioned in the IRC maybe ydays ...21:40
lcukballs, libbacon exists21:40
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, bunch of damn spammers. . . .21:41
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: yeah. :P21:41
lcukbaconui21:41
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, well, Mer's doing what Nokia should be doing.21:41
GeneralAntillesSpreading "Maemo" to other devices and platforms.21:41
woglindehm steak21:42
lcukjohnx, in all seriousness i most likely wont be using gpl for the next version21:42
johnxStskeeps, well, I think it would be different if Nokia had released a version of Maemo that could be easily run on the beagle21:42
GeneralAntillesSo as long as you're not causing major breaks. :shrug:.21:42
lcuksince its bad form for a library to be gpl :)21:42
kozakwould like to know the reason why a different UI Mer> Is it that the maemo dist. is completely owned by Nokia or something21:42
JaffaWhilst Mer is the last, best hope for Fremantle components on N8x0 and is API compatible with the current version of Maemo, it ain't a problem :-)21:42
johnxlcuk, aaaah, so lgpl?21:42
Stskeepskozak: it's not a different UI really - it's same underlying core, - and we just have people experimenting with other UI types21:43
Jaffakozak: cos wazd isn't hindered by N-Series brand conventions or focus groups.21:43
lcuklooks that way yeah, if it stays as linkable then i might stick with gpl, but if its a dynamic lib ill do it lgpl21:43
GeneralAntilleskozak, no, they're moving to Clutter.21:43
GeneralAntillesPlus those other two points.21:43
Stskeepskozak: and the traditional Maemo themes are properitary :P21:43
johnxkozak, the basic GUI (hildon-desktop, matchbox) is the same as Nokia has currently released21:43
kozakoh ok21:43
Stskeepskozak: we're actually using a more recent hildon-desktop than latest OS version for the tablets21:43
lcukkozak, just because theres something available does not mean its got to be used.  someone has had to pick up the reins and get moving21:44
johnxkozak, are you referring to the mockups?21:44
* lcuk is using the most latest UI of all21:44
johnxthink we kind of overwhelmed him O_o;21:44
kozakjohnx: Yes the mock ups21:44
johnxlcuk, late in that you missed your release date? :P21:44
lcukheh yeah johnx21:45
Stskeepskozak: to get technical, if you want to port Mer and maemo UI platform to beagleboard, get Ubuntu Jaunty running on it first - from there it's trivial.21:45
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lcukbut that wasnt decided until very recently to be generic21:45
lcuki went to the summit with ideas to build some apps and a nice way to draw them21:45
johnxkozak, well, Nokia will be going a different direction with fremantle and most likely basing their replacement for hildon-desktop on clutter. clutter will likely require hardware 3D acceleration to work well21:45
johnxand we'd like to run on platforms where 3D hardware acceleration isn't necessarily available21:46
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lcukdare i say it will also prefer an atom cpu21:46
luke-jreww21:46
luke-jrx8621:46
johnxlcuk, what?21:46
lcukwho owns openedhand?21:46
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woglindeintel21:47
lardmanlcuk: thanks for the email21:47
lcuk:D21:47
kozakI do see a point in lcuk with x8621:48
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wazdRST38h: Think so)22:11
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johnxhey Meiz_n810 :)22:11
Meiz_n810hi johnx22:12
lcukmmmm sqlite is case sensitive internally22:12
RST38hSts: All right, let us debug it22:13
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RST38hSts: In the pixbuf_proto_request() function, write the following in the first lines:22:13
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RST38hSts: {int j;for(j=0;j<32;++j) printf("0x02X ",((unsigned char *)req)[j]);printf("\nsizeof=%d\n",sizeof(*req));return(0); }22:15
RST38hSts: Run it on both CPUs and post results22:15
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johnxI should be able to do that here since Stskeeps has exams to study for :)22:16
RST38hOk, as long as you have both CPUs to test on22:17
johnxcheck :)22:17
johnxn800 / omap2420 and zaurus / PXA27022:18
StskeepsRST38h: would = {0}; assignment potentially be bad, btw?22:18
RST38hI expect the sizeof to be the same but the contents will probably differ, if THAT is indeed the cause of the crash22:18
Stskeepsi never saw that before22:18
RST38hSts: Where?22:19
Stskeepswhen the buf that is being passed into pixbuf_proto_request is created22:19
lcukStskeeps, common way to init a structure to all zeros22:19
Stskeepslines 9422:19
RST38hAh, there22:19
Stskeepsmmk22:19
RST38hWell, I think the newer C standard allows this22:19
johnx(getting setup to build sapwood)22:20
RST38hnot sure if it will clear the whole struct or just the first element though22:20
lcukits the whole block22:20
lcukhttp://msdn.microsoft.com/ja-jp/library/81k8cwsz(VS.80).aspx22:24
lcukIf initializer-list has fewer values than an aggregate type, the remaining members or elements of the aggregate type are initialized to 0.22:24
lcuk(thank you microsoft for clearest explanation)22:24
timelE61iLcuk: ms / borland historically have good compiler docs22:25
RST38hlcuk: Doesn't it mean I can do {}; ? :)22:25
lcukthe definition has to be recursively sound and within each { } level it must fill the whole defined size, because it would make for silly compiler errors if you extended the struct without extending each init thereof22:25
johnxRST38h, does this look right or am I being dense? http://rafb.net/p/MmmRgQ92.html22:25
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lcuktimelE61i, historically yeah, something screwed up with .net though (especially in the documentation)22:26
johnx(...compiling...)22:28
RST38hjohnx: if it passes compilation it should be fine :)22:28
johnxjust wanted to make sure I wasn't misinterpreting your instructions22:29
RST38hjohnx: Do you specify architecture in your compiler options?22:29
johnxit's compiled for armv5te in both cases22:29
johnxand historically the same binary behaves differently on different systems22:29
RST38hon which one does it crash again?22:29
johnxarmv5te22:30
RST38hon which one it does not crash then?22:30
johnxarmv622:30
johnxalso, a note: it behaves correctly on qemu emulating an armv5te22:31
RST38hhehe22:31
RST38hmy guess is that is has something to do with an unaligned memory access22:31
johnxthink it might be some problem with compiler optimizations?22:32
Stskeepsjohnx: i tried with noopt as well22:32
StskeepsRST38h: oh, and it doesn't crash, just corrupts the buf22:33
RST38hjohnx: no idea22:33
ssvbjohnx: does it crash on PXA270?22:33
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RST38hjohnx: going to see what is in that buffer first, and read on armv6 in the meanwhile22:33
johnxRST38h, compiled on armv6. for completeness sakes I'm running a native build on/for both22:33
lcukgah! at case sensitive sqlite22:33
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RST38hOk, ARMV5 is basically thumb and clz instruction22:34
Stskeeps(buf corruption: ->length ends up in _pad1)22:34
ssvbjohnx: you may have data alignment problems22:35
woglinderst and bx22:35
RST38hwoglinde: aka thumb.22:35
RST38hOk, it IS a data alignment problem22:35
wazdRST38h: ok, check your mail22:35
RST38hLet us quote from armv6 white paper: Current versions of the architecture require a number of instructions to manage unaligned22:36
RST38hdata. ARMv6 compliant architectures will manage unaligned data more efficiently in22:36
RST38hhardware.22:36
RST38hwazd: acknowledged22:36
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johnxthe odd part is this must have worked on the 770 for OS2008HE *somehow*22:37
lcukcompiler flags?22:37
Stskeepsjohnx: the engine and server wasn't seperated that much there22:37
Stskeepsbut i think it happened too22:37
RST38hwazd: The back is really good now, but the front is ugly :(22:37
johnxStskeeps, I've had this problem since ~a year ago22:37
Stskeepstrue22:37
Stskeepsso it must have been similar22:37
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RST38hwazd:Can you keep it the same way as it was before and just remove the sharp corners?22:38
RST38hSts: Are you sure it is length?22:38
RST38hAHSHITIKNOWWHATITIS22:39
johnx!!22:39
woglindewooooooooooooooooooooooooo22:39
Stskeepshm?22:39
* RST38h affectionately calls Sapwood people stupid idiots22:39
lcukdoh!22:39
ssvbjohnx: behaviour depends on /proc/cpu/alignment22:39
RST38hSts,johnx: Let us get back to the original code22:39
StskeepsRST38h: everything basically ones one to the left22:39
Stskeepsi think22:40
Stskeeps(i can't remember my debug output)22:40
RST38hSts,johnx: You will see that these worthy gentlemen allocate an array of BYTES on stack and cast it to a structure. Right22:40
RST38h?22:40
Stskeepsah.22:40
RST38hSts,johnx: This structure is going to contain 16bit integers and thus has to be aligned AT LEAST to the even address boundary22:40
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woglindehihi22:41
johnxssvb, pretend I'm dumb. what am I looking to see there (though they do look radically different between those systems)22:41
RST38hIf it is not aligned, the nature of fuckup will depend on the CPU model, memory management hardware, etc.22:41
woglindethe old aligment struct thinggie22:41
RST38hOk, let us fix it gracefully and file a bug to Maemo devs22:41
johnxRST38h, :D So, what kind of beer do i owe you?22:42
RST38hDefine it like that:22:42
ssvbjohnx: you can read here for example: http://lecs.cs.ucla.edu/wiki/index.php/XScale_alignment22:42
ssvbjohnx: just googled this page22:42
johnxRST38h, which is to say: Thanks22:42
johnxssvb, thanks. reading :)22:42
RST38hstruct { PixbufOpenRequest req;char filename[PATH_MAX+1]; } req;22:43
RST38hjohnx: I charge in blood =)22:43
RST38hjohnx: no sweat though22:43
johnxRST38h, your choices are Sapporo, Yebisu or Kirin. I think blood is a Russian brand?22:43
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RST38hAnyways, if you declare req as shown above (break into separate lines) the only abnormality you would get is maybe an extra byte of padding between req and filename, but you shouldn't care22:44
ssvbjohnx: the problem is that linux kernel has an idiotic default regarding unaligned memory accesses, this makes spotting these issues harder22:44
RST38hjohnx: universal =)22:44
RST38hjohnx: I don't drink so don't worry about it22:44
StskeepsRST38h: the req allocated there will be aligned well on the stack, so we can safely pass it off as a char * to the pixbuf thing?22:45
johnxRST38h, fair enough. If you end up at the next summit or similar I'll have some terrifying souveneir for you22:45
RST38hSts: Yes.22:45
RST38hSts: compiler will take care of it22:45
StskeepsRST38h: now, that's the kind of crap i didn't get taught in school22:45
RST38hjohnx: Fugu!22:45
RST38hno, no just joking22:46
johnxRST38h, I'll prepare it myself. :>22:46
RST38hSts: That is because you did not have SPARC hardware in school =)22:46
RST38hSts: Because otherwise you would be severely punished by the system =)22:46
StskeepsRST38h: hehe22:46
johnxssvb, it's entirely possible that the kernel was screaming about it in the logs and I didn't know that it was important22:46
StskeepsRST38h: anyway, this means we'll be able to put a working sapwood on 770 and such :) many many thanks22:47
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johnxI'll apply the change and test:)22:48
Stskeepsjohnx: i think we need to change things further down really22:49
Stskeepsas the structure will be changed22:49
Stskeeps(i think)22:49
Stskeepsor not22:49
* Stskeeps goes back to devilish HCI22:49
RST38hit will not change22:49
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Stskeepsin any case, it warrants a bug report :P22:51
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johnx"Fixed in fremantle since we no longer run on armv5" :)22:52
RST38hYes, it is definitely grounds for a bug report22:52
Stskeepsit's related to https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=393922:52
RST38hit *is* a bug22:52
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Jake42-2hi guys, I would need your help again....22:53
Jake42-2I have finally managed to install a web server with php...22:53
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Jake42-2but I don't have mysql support...22:53
Jake42-2(I need the php5-mysql or any equivalent)22:53
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Jake42-2can't I get the original one and paste it in a directory?22:54
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RST38hno.22:55
Stskeepsmm?22:56
RST38hhe can't paste an x86 binary there and expect it to run22:56
Jake42-2so... what am I gonna do?22:56
Jake42-2I need the connection between php- mysql...22:56
RST38hprobably die... eventually...22:56
RST38hyou can try compiling it for Maemo but I would suggest using sqlite instead22:57
Jake42-2(that would make happy many people....but ....:P It doesnt work on me)22:57
Jake42-2I have already made the database in mysql22:57
RST38hwon't require lot of changes22:58
Jake42-2I don't have time to learn sql-lite22:58
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RST38hThe main point is tht sqlite is already available (checking right now)22:58
Jake42-2yes....22:58
Jake42-2I know that..22:58
Jake42-2but the base is huge....22:58
Jake42-2how about to make the php-mysql by myself???22:59
Jake42-2(too difficult?)22:59
RST38his your db store locally on the tablet or remotely on some server?22:59
RST38hstored22:59
Jake42-2now it is on a server (desktop)22:59
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Jake42-2but I want to make it work on the tablet23:00
RST38hif you want to move it to the tablet, expect performance problems23:00
RST38hmore so with mysql than with sqlite23:00
Jake42-2it doesn't matter23:00
Jake42-2how about write the php-mysql23:01
RST38haside from this, get php5-mysql and compile it using Maemo SDK23:01
Jake42-2by myself?23:01
Jake42-2xmmm23:01
Jake42-2hmmmmmmmmmm23:01
RST38hwhat?23:01
Jake42-2sounds very good :)23:01
Jake42-2but...what tools?23:01
RST38hMaemo SDK.23:01
Jake42-2(just a maemo sdk compiler and the origianl php5-mysql ?)23:02
RST38hyes.23:02
lcuksqlite is not complete and is a slightly older version, there will be things you want to do which make you pull your hair out23:02
Jake42-2lcuk you give me hopes :)23:03
lcukand sqlite uses a case sensitive syntax for its sql and its damned frustrating :)  but thats only my opinion23:03
woglindelcuk hm you will fight it23:03
Jake42-2RST38h the maemo SDK is still beta... :(23:03
lcukwoglinde, its just another thing ;)23:03
lcukive got my data into the database now and im looking at how quick it is23:03
woglindelcuk ah23:04
lcukthe sdk is fine23:04
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RST38hQualcomm now owns Geode, apparently23:05
woglinderst ui23:05
opengeekv2wazd and others: hey i have some new mockups from the oven XD23:05
Jake42-2RST38h, man which maemo SDK????23:05
* lcuk doesnt like mockups23:06
Jake42-2http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_4_0_chinook_beta_sdk/  ???23:06
Jake42-2(I have installed diablo, is it ok???)23:06
lcukhttp://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_4-1-2_diablo/23:06
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* RST38h shouldn't have suggested compiling...23:07
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opengeekv2oh sorry maby I've forgotten salt and pepper XD23:07
RST38hWrong, *wrong* idea it was...23:07
lcukopengeekv2,  lol its not that theres anything wrong with a mockup, i just prefer to touch :)  lemme have a link23:08
Jake42-2y man???23:08
opengeekv2ok23:08
lcukopengeekv2, have you seen my apps?23:08
opengeekv2http://opengeek.wordpress.com/2009/01/20/mermaemo-5-mockup-2-fullscreen-realted/23:08
opengeekv2no pleas pass me a link withs salt a pepper23:09
lcukhttp://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/liqbase/     (and don't forget to vote and comment if you like)   and a much more expansive overview here   http://liqbase.net/    install on your device and see23:10
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opengeekv2oh you are the creator of liqbase?23:10
opengeekv2hehe23:11
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timelE61iso does it work on my 770 yet? :)23:12
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timelE61i(actually, my 770 is out atm)23:12
johnxtimelE61i, mer? recompiling sapwood now :)23:12
opengeekv2i'll try it when i get a new charger for n80023:12
timelE61iLiq23:12
lcukopengeekv2, the mockup for the fullscreen menus, http://liqbase.net/liq.20090107_005847.lib.scr.png  this is an early test i was messing with, each corner of the fish widget was active23:12
oliwould it be hard to add pressure-sensivity recognition to bluemaemo? :>23:13
lcuktimelE61i, did you sent me your 770 yet23:13
r2d2rogersjohnx: I knew I'd miss my dev 770 when I realized I'd left it at home..23:13
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: we found the sapwood problem!23:13
lcukopengeekv2, you have seen liqbase then :)23:13
Stskeepsor well, RST38h did in his wisdom23:14
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Jake42-2RST38h may I install maemo compiler in windows?23:14
opengeekv2i ahve to buy a new carger for my n800 nowadys it not works23:14
lcukyou can try, but it wont work23:14
opengeekv2but i've seen the image23:14
Jake42-2ohhh god...23:14
lcuktheres a vmware appliance somewhere23:15
Jake42-2yup...I saw it23:15
Jake42-2but I don't know how it works23:15
RST38hJake: Go with sqlite.23:15
lcukJake42-2, you are stuck in catch 22, you will not stop saying "ohhhh god" for about another 8 or 9 months23:15
lcukthen you will "get" it :)23:15
* lcuk still shakes head at linux23:15
Jake42-2catch 22?23:15
Jake42-2yes man23:16
johnxaaah, memories: 2008 Mar 05 22:24:29 <johnx_> also, gah, sapwood-server is being a PITA23:16
lcukyou want something but you have to do something else first23:16
Jake42-2I have linux on my pc as well23:16
Jake42-2now I use windows for photshop23:16
lcukare you this bad at it?23:16
Jake42-2no23:16
RST38hlcuk: This is a clear and simple case for sqlite23:16
Jake42-2medium- experienced23:16
r2d2rogersStskeeps: I'll be up for testing in about 2 hoours, unless the spare card I have here builds a mer image faster than that23:17
lcuki dunno what its needed for though, yesterday he wanted a whole server23:17
Jake42-2lcuk23:17
Jake42-2I made the whole think23:17
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: hehe, didn't say we had a compiled fixed version yet, just that we know how to solve it :)23:17
lcukopengeekv2, theres videos on liqbase.net23:17
Jake42-2now I miss only the part of23:17
Jake42-2php-mysql...23:17
woglindeurgs23:17
lcukjust a tiny little bit :)23:17
Jake42-2*thing23:18
opengeekv2i've found the vmware image23:18
RST38hlcuk: and he does not yet know that he also needs mysql...23:18
woglindeeither php nor mysql23:18
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opengeekv2i'llbe able to run liqbase on it no?23:18
lcukno23:18
lcukget a nokia charger :)23:18
* lcuk remembers the time when he couldnt take screenshots with liqbase23:18
opengeekv2yes but in spain we are a 22:3023:19
lcukand it was all mine, just nurtured quietly :)23:19
Jake42-2RST38h is it so difficult to compile something????23:19
Jake42-2(in maemo SDK, I have compiled many other programs23:19
Jake42-2on gcc, javac...)23:19
lcukJake42-2, can i ask, what are you doing this for?23:20
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Jake42-2for an electronic health record23:21
Jake42-2as I said23:21
* lcuk never heard23:21
Jake42-2openEMR?23:21
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Jake42-2lets say23:21
Jake42-2that you have EVERY medical DATA23:21
Jake42-2on your phone23:21
RST38hJake: If you have never done it before and do not know what SDK is, yes23:21
Jake42-2(and/or also available on a web server)23:21
lcukthen run it from your desktop and connect via tablet23:22
Jake42-2I know that the sdk is a compiler for java, or something like that.... isn't there any tutorial???)23:22
RST38hNot that it can't be learnt, but it will cost time23:22
Jake42-2hmmm23:22
johnxJake42-2, do you know what a cross compiler is? have you ever used one?23:22
* RST38h braces himself and whistles quietly23:23
lcuk>>>>>>>>> <Jake42-2> (in maemo SDK, I have compiled many other programs   <<<<<<<<<<23:23
Jake42-2I know23:23
Jake42-2never used before23:23
johnxmaemo SDK is an environment for cross compiling23:23
* lcuk passes johnx a shotglass23:23
Jake42-2it's ok23:23
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johnxget the latest maemo SDK, look at the instructions, get the php-mysql source from packages.debian.org, and follow the instructions for making yourself a debian package23:24
lcukJake42-2, go read up about the sdk, and if you get confused find the maemo vmware image it has a preconfigured environment that you can use to learn from23:24
Jake42-2just a sec23:25
lcukit has hello world and stuff in amongst the ready made ubuntu+ide and everything ready installed and a readme23:25
Jake42-2the vmware image23:25
Jake42-2needs also an installed OS23:25
Jake42-2or may I use it directly?23:25
opengeekv2luck i've seen the videos i'm so impressed23:25
johnxJake42-2, you install vmware player and use it directly23:26
opengeekv2all this things you made in liqbase could be implemented on the mer UI without many problems? (i don't know much about coding)23:26
lcukopengeekv2, the principles i started in liqbase are usable on a wide range of applications.23:27
lcukthey have been boiled down int a library (which if i had more time would be released by now)23:28
Jake42-2the site http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/ refers that there are 4 parts23:28
Jake42-2but only two of them are for download :S23:28
lcukat the point that the api is semi stable i will be releasing the lib with some core ui examples and apps and hopefully they can be moulded into a nice set of apps for our devices :)23:29
opengeekv2oh nice23:29
johnxJake42-2, you download 1 thing from there: maemo-sdk-0.8.vmx23:30
opengeekv2my blog not ever talks about maemo but can I put it on the planet?23:30
lcukopengeekv2, as for whether it can be made to fit in with mer, yes http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=25395523:30
lcukopengeekv2, not really yet, get more direction towards maemo23:31
johnxJake42-2, ah, i see what you mean. use the bittorrent link maybe23:31
Jake42-2johnx it is parts...23:31
lcukpeople will give you lots of thumbs down if they dont see very specific things23:31
* lcuk will make sure his next blog post includes bacon 23:31
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opengeekv2¿bacon?23:34
Stskeepsmm, bacon23:35
Stskeepshttp://www.marions-kochbuch.de/index-bilder/bacon-in-streifen.jpg23:36
GeneralAntillesbenson, :P23:37
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Stskeepsjohnx: btw, scratchbox builder has suddenly stopped allowing TCP connections or resolving hostnames, i have no idea why23:42
johnxah, exciting23:42
johnxalso, I'm not having luck figuring out how to apply RST38h's fix, but I will test first-boot-wizard in a sec23:43
Stskeepsso it will go on the native builder always (which takes ages)23:43
* lcuk raises a beer23:43
johnxok, I just have one build-x86 to do in a sec anyways23:43
Stskeepsk23:43
johnxlcuk, I'll stick to coffee for now :)23:43
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lcukthats ok johnx, but you must drink at the summit23:44
johnxlcuk, oh yes. so very much yes23:44
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Jake42-2johnx say23:45
Jake42-2that I download php5-mysql23:45
Jake42-2it has in it 5 files23:45
Jake42-2I should compile all of them23:45
Jake42-2?23:45
Jake42-2(or may I compile the original php5-mysql.deb ?)23:45
lcukno, the extra files are just to fill out the archive23:45
lcuktheres a minimum size on zips23:45
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timelE61ilcuk: you going to fosdem?23:46
timelE61iOr, do you know someoe semilocal going there?23:46
Jake42-2control.tar.gz23:47
Jake42-2data.tar.gz23:47
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Jake42-2these ones?23:47
timelE61iI can probably get it couriered via fosdem23:47
johnxJake42-2, you grabbed a binary debian package23:47
johnxyou need source23:47
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johnxback later. makin' coffee and oatmeal23:47
Stskeepsoatmeal!23:47
Stskeepsi can make that in the morning :)23:48
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JaffaStskeeps: got a local branch of HAM. Merged in the #2710 patch (no disclaimers) and changed the default to not show them. Will do some testing and then start pushing it up to a branch hosted on launchpad in ~aflegg23:50
StskeepsJaffa: alright :)23:50
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Stskeepspoke me to give you access to builder tomorrow23:50
Stskeeps(and repo)23:51
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Jake42-2so guys. I found the source code...now among these files...which of them do I need?23:53
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JaffaStskeeps: to avoid diverging too far from Nokia's source, since ideally (presumably) the aim would be to get Mer patches merged into the upstream HAM; any tricks for identifying when a package is being installed in Mer vs. Maemo (for the inittab stuff in postinst)?23:55
pupnik_Last week Intel reported a 23 percent drop in fourth-quarter revenue.23:55
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* b-man is frustrated when he realises 75% of gentoo applications refuse to install/compile for ARMv623:56
pupnik_hah!  AMD (NYSE) at $2.00!23:57
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lcukb-man, like i said, mid 40s23:59
b-manhehe23:59

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