| Stskeeps | jaunty, we're not overriding that | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| zenvoid | hmmm... what toolchain is used for scratchbox? | 00:00 |
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| Stskeeps | http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/arm-linux-cs2008q3-72-libtool2_1.0.11_i386.deb | 00:01 |
| zenvoid | ok | 00:01 |
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| *** hvelarde|stealth is now known as hvelarde|freezin | 00:01 | |
| Stskeeps | builder is set up in a similar fashion as written on the wiki, but uses EABI qemu instead | 00:01 |
| *** hvelarde|freezin is now known as hvelarde|stealth | 00:01 | |
| MaceN800 | hm | 00:02 |
| MaceN800 | going to install kubuntu on my macbook | 00:02 |
| * zenvoid is downloading the toolchain :) | 00:02 | |
| Stskeeps | zenvoid: and we have a devkit which provides updated versions of some things | 00:02 |
| Stskeeps | zenvoid: not a sb2 toolchain just for good measure :P | 00:02 |
| opengeekv2 | hey guys i've posted some mockups based on te wazd ones take a look please | 00:03 |
| opengeekv2 | opengeek.wordpress.com/maemomer-ui-mockup | 00:04 |
| Stskeeps | opengeekv2: maybe, but it makes the selection one tap longer | 00:05 |
| Stskeeps | or not.. | 00:05 |
| Stskeeps | opengeekv2: possible | 00:05 |
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| opengeekv2 | what is the seleccion tap? | 00:05 |
| Stskeeps | except it might be a nasty performance hit to shift your stuff 60 pixels down | 00:05 |
| Stskeeps | opengeekv2: as in, how many touches it takes to do something :) | 00:06 |
| Stskeeps | but i was wrong about that | 00:06 |
| opengeekv2 | the same as befor | 00:06 |
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| opengeekv2 | but the menus not cover the boddy of the app excessively | 00:07 |
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| zenvoid | opengeekv2: ah, you mean that when you tap the app icon, the menubar will appear in the window, right? | 00:08 |
| opengeekv2 | look the first image | 00:08 |
| opengeekv2 | you see how thw menu will be opened if we tho the things in the traditional way | 00:09 |
| zenvoid | opengeekv2: second try: when you tap on the menu buton at the center, it appears a title+menu bar (?) | 00:09 |
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| opengeekv2 | yes that's the idea | 00:09 |
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| opengeekv2 | but tittle could be removed if people gets used to ignore it | 00:10 |
| opengeekv2 | these mockup's are not at the levol of wazd ones but i think the idea is good expressed no? | 00:11 |
| Stskeeps | opengeekv2: well, it's an interesting idea, i'm just worried about the amount of shifting needed :) | 00:12 |
| zenvoid | opengeekv2: :D yes, thanks for sharing your thoughts | 00:12 |
| zenvoid | it will require changes to gtk, I think... | 00:13 |
| zenvoid | could be difficult to implement | 00:14 |
| opengeekv2 | i supose that is easy to imagine things without knowing the difficult to implement this things | 00:14 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 00:14 |
| zenvoid | ... but it is not bad idea | 00:14 |
| opengeekv2 | i want to finish my degreee (and i've done only 4 months) | 00:15 |
| zenvoid | of course it is easier to use maemo menus, because they are already done :-) | 00:15 |
| Stskeeps | opengeekv2: what degree are you taking btw? | 00:15 |
| Stskeeps | computer science? | 00:15 |
| opengeekv2 | yes | 00:17 |
| opengeekv2 | in barcelona | 00:17 |
| Stskeeps | alright | 00:17 |
| zenvoid | started this year? | 00:17 |
| opengeekv2 | yes | 00:17 |
| Stskeeps | i have to start my thesis in 2 weeks, heh | 00:17 |
| Stskeeps | (masters) | 00:18 |
| opengeekv2 | i'm fresh meat or "carne de cañon" | 00:18 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 00:18 |
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| opengeekv2 | it means tha in 6/7 years i'll be es professional as you XD | 00:18 |
| opengeekv2 | great | 00:19 |
| Stskeeps | meh. i started coding at 6 ;) | 00:19 |
| opengeekv2 | yes as mozart playing piano | 00:20 |
| opengeekv2 | with was age oyu wrote your first operating system XD | 00:21 |
| Stskeeps | nah, i'm not that good. the benefit of a computer science degree is that you realize there's people who are a lot smarter than you, and how to make them think your idea was their idea ;) | 00:21 |
| Stskeeps | (and hence execute it in practice) | 00:21 |
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| opengeekv2 | ammm | 00:22 |
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| Stskeeps | or something. either way, it's worth it :P | 00:23 |
| zenvoid_ | shit... lost connection | 00:23 |
| zenvoid_ | my previous zenvoid is still connected :P | 00:23 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 00:23 |
| zenvoid_ | i'll try to kick him :) | 00:24 |
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| opengeekv2 | hey guys i'm too sleepy now | 00:25 |
| Stskeeps | gnite | 00:25 |
| * Stskeeps just had some coffee :P | 00:25 | |
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| opengeekv2 | how many stskeeps are there (they apoear with deifferent colours) | 00:25 |
| Stskeeps | err. depends | 00:26 |
| Stskeeps | n800 is when i'm mobile on my tablet | 00:26 |
| Stskeeps | laptop is on my laptop, and stskeeps is my server :P | 00:26 |
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| opengeekv2 | ohh ok | 00:27 |
| zenvoid_ | opengeekv2: tried to record those seagulls? | 00:27 |
| * Stskeeps listens to the half-snow-half-rain outside | 00:27 | |
| opengeekv2 | not my mum is sick (grioe intestinal) and I have to stay at home | 00:27 |
| opengeekv2 | cuidando de ella | 00:28 |
| zenvoid_ | opengeekv2: ok | 00:28 |
| zenvoid_ | spangish :-) | 00:28 |
| opengeekv2 | yes XD | 00:28 |
| zenvoid_ | spanglish | 00:28 |
| opengeekv2 | gnite everybody | 00:28 |
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| *** opengeekv2 has joined #maemo | 00:29 | |
| Stskeeps | oh boy. primary school teacher adding you on facebook. | 00:29 |
| moontiger | lol | 00:29 |
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| zenvoid_ | sometimes I read my english phrases in the and I don't ever understand myself | 00:29 |
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| Stskeeps | fair enough, let her see that i was one of the only of her students who made it to university :P | 00:30 |
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| Stskeeps | with a brilliant picture of me smoking, drinking at a festival, and being dirty and sunburnt. | 00:30 |
| moontiger | what festival? | 00:30 |
| Stskeeps | www.roskilde-festival.dk in this case :P | 00:30 |
| andre__ | haha | 00:31 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/fb.JPG :> | 00:31 |
| * Stskeeps loves facebook for freaking out old teachers and such. | 00:31 | |
| moontiger | haha nice | 00:32 |
| moontiger | :) | 00:32 |
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| fireun | "remember that one time, you gave me an F!?" | 00:32 |
| moontiger | hey Stskeeps ... do you do any work on the rotation support for the n810? | 00:35 |
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| Stskeeps | moontiger: nop. in mer we have rotation issues now too :P i think jott did the rotation support | 00:35 |
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| moontiger | ok ... i was wondering if it is compatible with the new SSU stuff that came out a week or two ago | 00:36 |
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| Stskeeps | i'm not sure, didn't use it myself so :P | 00:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's compatible, I dunno if anybody has compiled binaries, though. | 00:37 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | jott updated his page. | 00:38 |
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| Stskeeps | b-man: any new release of installer btw? | 00:38 |
| * Stskeeps goes test out pygtk and py-hildon on mer | 00:39 | |
| b-man | not yet, i am still doing some debuging (and i was busy studying for a semester exam ;p) | 00:39 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 00:40 |
| Stskeeps | i have a human computer interaction exam in 34 hours or so | 00:40 |
| Stskeeps | guess what's more funny, reading about it, or performing it | 00:40 |
| b-man | preforming for it? :) | 00:41 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 00:42 |
| Stskeeps | yeah :P | 00:42 |
| b-man | lol | 00:42 |
| * b-man wishes he did not suck at history | 00:42 | |
| Stskeeps | history is okay if you're the kind of kid who was allowed to sit and watch the evening news with parents from he was 5 | 00:43 |
| Stskeeps | you collect a bunch of info through there :P | 00:43 |
| b-man | (studying about post-ww2) | 00:43 |
| b-man | hehe | 00:44 |
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| cyberdora | Stskeeps, could you help me install deblet on N770? | 00:46 |
| moontiger | thnx Stskeeps ... what is his page address? | 00:46 |
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| Stskeeps | http://sse2.net/rotate/ | 00:47 |
| moontiger | thnx :) | 00:47 |
| moontiger | bbl | 00:47 |
| Stskeeps | cyberdora: most work is being done in Mer for 770 really, deblet's succesor | 00:47 |
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| b-man|gentoo|n80 | grr | 00:48 |
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| * b-man|gentoo|n80 wishes xchat would let him change to b-man|gentoo|n800 | 00:49 | |
| Stskeeps | nickname length | 00:49 |
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| b-man|gentoo | yeah :p | 00:49 |
| * b-man|gentoo starts installing applications in gentoo :) | 00:51 | |
| tank-man | you mean compiling? | 00:52 |
| cyberdora | ok, thanks :) | 00:52 |
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| b-man|gentoo | shure :p | 00:52 |
| * b-man|gentoo wishes emerge --sync would not take so long | 00:53 | |
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| lcuk | b-man|gentoo, if you think you got it bad, ive gotta write the programs before i can emerge them | 00:55 |
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| * Stskeeps notes osso python package is weird | 00:56 | |
| b-gentoo | lcuk: hehe | 00:56 |
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| GeneralAntilles | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3961#c2 | 00:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm tempted to respond: "What, all 6 of them?" | 00:59 |
| Stskeeps | wtf :P | 00:59 |
| b-gentoo | lol | 00:59 |
| Stskeeps | his bug report is weird | 01:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | He's way out of the loop for managing to be shouting everywhere all the time. | 01:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, don't get me started. | 01:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | ALL of his bug reports are weird. | 01:00 |
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| GeneralAntilles | and they _all_ JUST manage not to cross the line into immediate invalidity. | 01:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | They're _just_ _barely_ cogent enough that I have to actually treat them like real reports. | 01:01 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: i'd be tempted to suggest you to write "Mer will support N810W", but i'm not sure that's a direction you should send him in :P | 01:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, you don't want him anywhere near your project. | 01:01 |
| Stskeeps | exactly. | 01:01 |
| b-gentoo | lol x1000 | 01:01 |
| b-gentoo | XD | 01:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Triaging a single one of his reports takes about as much time and effort as triaging 10 or 11 of anybody else's. | 01:01 |
| Stskeeps | i'm just glad i'm having one of my bug reports taken fairly seriously atm | 01:02 |
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| Stskeeps | oh boy. | 01:05 |
| Stskeeps | and of course pymaemo has changed the semantics of import | 01:06 |
| Stskeeps | https://garage.maemo.org/svn/pymaemo/packages/python/branches/chinook/debian/patches/04-import.patch | 01:06 |
| Stskeeps | which means the bindings they use is of course built for that specific hack | 01:06 |
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| * b-gentoo wonders if there is a graphical package manager for gentoo such as synaptic | 01:13 | |
| Stskeeps | doubt it :P | 01:14 |
| Stskeeps | it's not a package system, it builds everything on tablet :P | 01:14 |
| b-gentoo | hmm | 01:14 |
| * b-gentoo notices "it is frequently seen as the best software management tool available for Linux" and laughs | 01:17 | |
| Stskeeps | maybe | 01:17 |
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| * b-gentoo would be concerned about memory consumsion and speed | 01:20 | |
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| Stskeeps | when compiled its probably very optimized, though | 01:21 |
| b-gentoo | good point | 01:21 |
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| lcuk | damn damn damn i have "lost" a module of code | 01:25 |
| Proteous | did you check around in your bellybutton lint? | 01:26 |
| lcuk | it was just some encoded thoughts i had and they have been engulfed by my archives (it wasnt important or complete at the time so was not given a real name). i used to use .zip and windows can search it natively, but now in linux they are stored as .tar.gz and windows doesnt understand it natively to search | 01:27 |
| lcuk | \o/ huzzzzzah | 01:29 |
| * lcuk randomly extracted a few breakpoints and it found it | 01:30 | |
| b-gentoo | sweet!!! emerge --synk is finally done! | 01:33 |
| lcuk | that was quick | 01:33 |
| b-gentoo | quick? | 01:33 |
| b-gentoo | 0_o | 01:33 |
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| * b-gentoo is getting frustrated by emerge | 01:41 | |
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| StsN800 | qt and kde will take most of your teens to compile | 01:43 |
| lcuk | heh | 01:44 |
| b-gentoo | lol | 01:44 |
| b-gentoo | emerge keeps failing though :p | 01:44 |
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| lcuk | b-gentoo, then expect to be somewhere in your 40s | 01:45 |
| b-gentoo | lol XD | 01:45 |
| lcuk | gah my fingers are too cold to code | 01:45 |
| * lcuk wants a trained monkey | 01:45 | |
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| b-gentoo | emerge is stating "!!! All ebuilds that could satisfy "app-office/gnumeric" have been masked.; !!! One of the following masked packages is required to complete your request: - app-office/gnumeric-1.8.3 (masked by: missing keyword)" :P | 01:46 |
| b-gentoo | but for every package | 01:47 |
| b-gentoo | lcuk: go to petco :) | 01:48 |
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| lcuk | :) the_user_formally_known_as_b-gentoo no, but i keep looking out for people with the right coding skills :) | 01:52 |
| FireFox | hehe | 01:53 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: oh? you don't think it was x86_64 issues? | 01:56 |
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| StsN800 | Jaffa, no, i remember johnx having similar issue | 01:57 |
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| StsN800 | spooky dbus problem or something | 01:57 |
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| Jaffa | Since it's a chroot, with its own 32-bit libraries, x86_64 host might not be an issue. So you might be right. | 01:58 |
| StsN800 | vdi or just compiling works fine | 01:58 |
| StsN800 | or physical machine :) | 01:58 |
| StsN800 | but if you figure out what goes wrong im most interested | 02:00 |
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| StsN800 | i suspect bind /tmp makes it collide with your main system dbus | 02:01 |
| StsN800 | perhaps only bind /tmp/.X11-unix | 02:01 |
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| Jaffa | StsN800: that sounds plausible. | 02:05 |
| StsN800 | i'd be happy if that solves it:P but you might have to /etc/init.d/dbus start in chroot | 02:06 |
| Jaffa | As soon as this machine is working, I'll give it a go | 02:09 |
| StsN800 | k | 02:10 |
| StsN800 | im off to bed | 02:10 |
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| FireFox | g'night | 02:11 |
| * FireFox starts bugging people over at #gentoo | 02:12 | |
| StsN800 | FireFox, be aware cos its unofficial port | 02:13 |
| StsN800 | not sure armel eabi was supported before | 02:13 |
| FireFox | ok | 02:14 |
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| fauxmight | slonopotamus, ping | 02:19 |
| lcuk | quick q: given this folder :: how do i make that apt-getable ? | 02:32 |
| lcuk | http://repository.maemo.org/pool/fremantle/free/s/sqlite3/ | 02:32 |
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| lcuk | ie, whats the deb line :$ | 02:32 |
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| lcuk | nooooooooooo it wants to upgrade my compiler :'( gcc-4.2-base libgcc1 libsqlite3-dev libsqlite3-0 | 02:36 |
| lcuk | :D should i | 02:36 |
| FireFox | shure | 02:36 |
| * lcuk does what the internet says | 02:38 | |
| lcuk | if this puts me back months of dev time now you are in for it:P | 02:38 |
| lcuk | tbh though, is there anything good in gcc4 | 02:38 |
| FireFox | hehe | 02:38 |
| derf | gcc4 vs. gcc3? God yes. | 02:39 |
| neatojones | you can usually install more than one compiler and chose which one you want to use | 02:39 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: you were right. It was a /tmp bind mount problem. Instructions on Mer_Blueprint for chroot updated. I can see a Mer desktop :-) | 02:42 |
| lcuk | arghhhh no dont want multiple, that will hurt my brain | 02:42 |
| lcuk | is gcc4 working nicely or am i expected to file bugs? | 02:42 |
| lcuk | or have to make drastic changes to code? | 02:42 |
| lcuk | since it is in the fremantle branch :$ | 02:43 |
| lcuk | i only want the new sqlite | 02:43 |
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| * Jaffa plays with the kinetic scrolling Fremantle goodness in mer | 02:44 | |
| Jaffa | Nice. | 02:44 |
| Jaffa | (for example, start Mer; start MaemoPad; click File > Save; change folder, drag up and down; watch bouncing kineticness) | 02:44 |
| dick-richardson | Jaffa, you doing that on an n810? | 02:45 |
| lcuk | is it smooth though? | 02:45 |
| Jaffa | No, on x86 at the moment | 02:45 |
| dick-richardson | kk | 02:45 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: who knows, I've not tried mer on my tablet yet | 02:45 |
| * Jaffa will probably try and do Hildon App Manager for it tomorrow. See if we get the shiny scrolling for free in there | 02:46 | |
| lcuk | :) | 02:46 |
| neatojones | I loaded mer on my N810 but couldn't get past the wizard because my keyboard didn't work. | 02:46 |
| dick-richardson | any wild speculation on which cell carriers would be able to support the next hardware? | 02:46 |
| Jaffa | Any which support HSPA. | 02:46 |
| neatojones | any idea on how to get around it? | 02:46 |
| dick-richardson | Jaffa, thanks :) | 02:47 |
| StsN800 | neatojones, HIM ought to work | 02:47 |
| StsN800 | click text field | 02:47 |
| neatojones | I did, no keyboard popped up and the keyboard on the device didn't do anything | 02:47 |
| neatojones | I tried changing the xmodmap from chroot and still got no response | 02:48 |
| StsN800 | try harder, but then again it might take time for him to come up | 02:48 |
| dick-richardson | so probably not verizon...evdo != hspa | 02:48 |
| neatojones | I expect that once I get into the hildon, I can use the virtual keyboard | 02:48 |
| StsN800 | i dont have n810 so | 02:49 |
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| neatojones | does the virtual keyboard pop up for you within a few minutes? | 02:49 |
| * FireFox is discusted when people over at #gentoo keep refering to ubuntu as a "little newbie os" | 02:49 | |
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| StsN800 | neatojones, i think so | 02:50 |
| StsN800 | after clicking once | 02:50 |
| lcuk | Setting up gcc-4.2-base (4.2.1-4maemo2) ... | 02:50 |
| lcuk | ln: /usr/share/doc/gcc-4.2-base/.copyright: No such file or directory | 02:50 |
| lcuk | dpkg: error processing gcc-4.2-base (--configure): | 02:50 |
| lcuk | :$ has docpurge eaten it? | 02:50 |
| neatojones | I gave up on hildon because of it. Tried removing the wizard and auto-startx packages, but then it wouldn't go past the mer splash anymore | 02:50 |
| lcuk | sorry for scrolly but it was v short | 02:50 |
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| lcuk | FireFox, as a noobie i wholeheartedly support their opinion | 02:51 |
| neatojones | so, I tried gnome env but all I ended up with was a blank screen and a mouse. (Same problem with XFCE) | 02:51 |
| StsN800 | neatojones, auto-startx is good idea if you want hildon | 02:51 |
| neatojones | well, I tried using a few of the deblet packages to get around it. | 02:52 |
| neatojones | no joy.:( Thanks though STS | 02:52 |
| FireFox | lcuk: shure, it is a great os for newbies but the way thay refer to it sounds a little insulting :p | 02:53 |
| StsN800 | feel free to file a bug that n810 has troubles | 02:53 |
| dick-richardson | anyone using mauku? | 02:53 |
| lcuk | firefox, and why not, you are grand masters at building. | 02:54 |
| neatojones | will do. | 02:54 |
| neatojones | I've been hacking, trying to get around it for about a week | 02:54 |
| StsN800 | 0.6 image? | 02:54 |
| neatojones | Yeah | 02:54 |
| StsN800 | which i released 2 days ago;) | 02:55 |
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| neatojones | STS: I used the tar image and the instructions from b-man on itt. I tried the installer, but it keeps crashing. I tried finding the problem, but my internet died all day | 02:56 |
| neatojones | I actually got it several days ago | 02:56 |
| StsN800 | k | 02:56 |
| neatojones | you posted it before you posted that you posted it...i noticed :D | 02:56 |
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| neatojones | (on itt anyway) | 02:56 |
| StsN800 | mm | 02:56 |
| b-man | hello neatojones | 02:57 |
| neatojones | hello | 02:57 |
| neatojones | now, I'm actually working on installing mamona to see if I can find something, they did that I'm missing in mer | 02:57 |
| StsN800 | we posted new installers up to and after post so | 02:58 |
| neatojones | my keyboard works fine in mamona | 02:58 |
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| neatojones | I think it was 1.7??? | 02:58 |
| neatojones | does that sound right? | 02:58 |
| StsN800 | i think its just missing fdi on n810 | 02:58 |
| LinuxHack3r | So tell me...the Nokia N810...I've read that is has "up to 2GB internal memory". What's that mean? Does it have 2GB internal memory or not? | 02:58 |
| neatojones | fdi? | 02:59 |
| b-man | neatojones; did you have any luck with ubuntu btw? | 02:59 |
| neatojones | LinuxHack3r: Yes 2GB internal memory | 02:59 |
| neatojones | yeah, I got it going up until that blue screen (remind me of windows) hehe | 02:59 |
| LinuxHack3r | neatojones: So the "up to" basically means depending on what's installed, I suppose? So when mine arrives in the mail...how much should be free? | 03:00 |
| neatojones | I can't tell if nautilus is running | 03:00 |
| LinuxHack3r | Trying to figure out if I should try and find a card before it arrives. | 03:00 |
| lcuk | fscking docpurge | 03:00 |
| neatojones | LinuxHack3r: about 400MB on the internal is left. You can remove the maps and get the full 2GB if you don't plan on using the map app pre installed | 03:00 |
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| b-man | neatojones: blue screen, in ubuntu?!? 0_o lol XD | 03:01 |
| LinuxHack3r | neatojones: the full 2GB? What about the os? | 03:01 |
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| neatojones | LInuxHack3r: The os is on another drive that is also internal but slightly different | 03:01 |
| StsN800 | 256 mb internal flash, 2gb internal mmc | 03:01 |
| LinuxHack3r | neatojones: Oh....ok. | 03:02 |
| neatojones | b-man: Not sure if it's gnome or not. It's the same thing if I install xfce. I think it might be some failsafe env or somthing | 03:02 |
| neatojones | It would be like a background minus any wallpaper with a cursor that is moveable. | 03:02 |
| neatojones | no panels. No login. | 03:03 |
| neatojones | no text...nothing | 03:03 |
| neatojones | I tried to figure out how to get the system to log, but it seems like ubuntu has confusing documentation about this | 03:03 |
| neatojones | no one could agree about how to do it in intrepid | 03:04 |
| neatojones | so, no log: No idea if everything is starting. could even be a dbus problem | 03:04 |
| LinuxHack3r | neatojones: So I read somewhere that it supports up to an 8GB card. Is the really the max? | 03:05 |
| neatojones | LH: I'm using an 8GB. No idea if larger works...but I think they ought to. | 03:05 |
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| neatojones | LH: 8GB is about the largest most people reasonable afford right now anyway | 03:06 |
| LinuxHack3r | neatojones: I'm newegging...amazon...I really cannot find many. I can find really cheap microsd 16GB though...so I think they make micro to mini adapters. Would that work right? | 03:06 |
| neatojones | LH: Besides, I've seen speed tests and it appears that the larger cards are slower. Not sure if this is true across the board, but from the tests I saw it was. The adaptors are the way to go. | 03:07 |
| LinuxHack3r | neatojones: Are you saying micro is faster than mini, or 16gb is slower than 8gb? | 03:08 |
| neatojones | Anyone have any reason why I shouldn't (For today, anyway) wed my N810 to mamona. If so, speak now or forever hold your peace?... | 03:08 |
| LinuxHack3r | neatojones: http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-microSDHC-CLASS-SDSDQ-8192-Package/dp/B0012Y2LLE/ref=pd_bxgy_e_img_b | 03:10 |
| LinuxHack3r | neatojones: http://www.amazon.com/Sandisk-MicroSD-MiniSD-Adapter-Package/dp/B000TLXCDW/ref=pd_bxgy_e_img_c | 03:10 |
| neatojones | The 16gb was slower than 4GB and 8GB | 03:10 |
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| LinuxHack3r | That should do it shouldn't it? That's actually rather quite cheap. Too bad theirs a fairly large price jump to the 16gb. | 03:11 |
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| neatojones | LH: My package included a normal SD adapter, mini-sd adapter, and micro-sd | 03:12 |
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| LinuxHack3r | neatojones: http://www.jr.com/nokia/pe/NOK_NOKIAN810/ | 03:13 |
| LinuxHack3r | I hope my package contains the Nokia N810. | 03:13 |
| neatojones | It appears as though that is what you bought | 03:14 |
| b-man | neatojones: based on those problems you had with gnome/xfce, it looks like that session problem might be related to a ubuntu bug :( | 03:14 |
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| neatojones | b-man: GDM won't even load. It just stalls out. Any idea of why that is? | 03:15 |
| LinuxHack3r | neatojones: Well it appears..but I've personally never even heard of Jr.com. Someone showed me the link...I think it was sisto. So if I get it for that price...I'm a happy camper. Just hope it's legit. | 03:15 |
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| sisto | LinuxHack3r: hi | 03:16 |
| LinuxHack3r | sisto: Hi there. | 03:16 |
| neatojones | LH: I got a class6 8GB micro with the mini adapter included on newegg for less than 15 | 03:16 |
| b-man | neatojones: mabe it could be a nother xserver-xorg problem | 03:16 |
| LinuxHack3r | sisto: http://www.amazon.com/SanDisk-microSDHC-CLASS-SDSDQ-8192-Package/dp/B0012Y2LLE/ref=pd_bxgy_e_img_b | 03:17 |
| LinuxHack3r | http://www.amazon.com/Sandisk-MicroSD-MiniSD-Adapter-Package/dp/B000TLXCDW/ref=pd_bxgy_e_img_c | 03:17 |
| sisto | LinuxHack3r: didn't you call them to ask how long it would take to ship? | 03:17 |
| neatojones | b-man: Which is preferred: The xserver-xorg package or the xserver-omap (or whatever it's called) from the mer repo? | 03:17 |
| LinuxHack3r | sisto: I actually did...he said he didn't know but there was an order placed for more. BTW, ^ Those links look like they'll work? | 03:17 |
| sisto | wow nice price for those | 03:18 |
| LinuxHack3r | sisto: Is it? And will a 16Gb work? If so...how much slower would it be over th 8GB? | 03:19 |
| neatojones | b-man: it is my understanding that they are equivalent packages, but the jaunty xserver-xorg is newer and with possibly more (generic) dependencies. | 03:19 |
| sisto | no idea about the 16 gb... i was asking the same thing a couple days ago | 03:19 |
| sisto | I'm still wondering whether to buy an eee 901 or a n810 | 03:20 |
| LinuxHack3r | sisto: Perhaps I'll wait until they are cheaper than dirt as well. An additional 8GB should be plenty for now. Considering the fact I'm not planning on putting music on it.... | 03:20 |
| b-man | xserver-xomap is the same server maemo uses. xserver-xorg is a slightly different xserver | 03:20 |
| LinuxHack3r | sisto: You don't even have a n810? | 03:20 |
| sisto | i don't | 03:21 |
| b-man | (has more features) | 03:21 |
| LinuxHack3r | sisto: Oh...ok. So you just sold me something that you don't even know if works ;) | 03:21 |
| neatojones | b-man: are you still able to load gnome? | 03:21 |
| neatojones | ...or xfce? | 03:21 |
| b-man | not atm :( | 03:22 |
| b-man | (i was untill i re-installed ubuntu) | 03:22 |
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| LinuxHack3r | neatojones: So do you have a mini or micro sd? Just wondering if they adapter card strategy affects performances... | 03:23 |
| neatojones | LH: micro with mini adapter | 03:23 |
| LinuxHack3r | neatojones: So it works fine? | 03:23 |
| neatojones | Mini's cost more and probably have the same mechanics underneath | 03:23 |
| neatojones | yeah | 03:24 |
| neatojones | LH: works for me | 03:24 |
| LinuxHack3r | Then it's settled. Amazon ftw! | 03:24 |
| sisto | LinuxHack3r: this is the only nokia device i have: http://www.gsmarena.com/nokia_1208-1977.php | 03:24 |
| sisto | cost me 20 bucks | 03:24 |
| LinuxHack3r | sisto: I considered a nokia phone...never looked into the. | 03:24 |
| neatojones | LH: also have a 4GB micro. I use the 8GB for alternate OS'es and th 4GB for media and maps. Still haven't ever filled the 4 | 03:24 |
| LinuxHack3r | Does it really have a flashlight? | 03:24 |
| sisto | yes | 03:24 |
| b-man | neatojones: i'm guessing that it is pritty likely that it is a ubuntu janunty bug (witch i don't have any control over besides bugzilla) :( | 03:25 |
| sisto | it works perfectly as a phone | 03:25 |
| sisto | or flashlight :P | 03:25 |
| LinuxHack3r | neatojones: It'd be hard to unless you put movies on there. BTW...if I encode a movie, basically at 800x480, mp4 or avi, will it play smoothly? | 03:25 |
| LinuxHack3r | sisto: Awesome. | 03:25 |
| neatojones | LH: encoded slightly lower than that. It played perfectly. | 03:26 |
| LinuxHack3r | neatojones: What's that mean? 800x479? | 03:26 |
| neatojones | LH: Never done 800x480/I don't think it's a common format for video | 03:26 |
| LinuxHack3r | neatojones: Oh..it's not..you'd have to keep the aspect ratio...but it'll work...is what you're saying...right? | 03:27 |
| sisto | LinuxHack3r: i also have this one: http://www.gsmarena.com/i_mate_jam-963.php | 03:27 |
| neatojones | LH: LIke 720x420 or something. Yes, the aspect ration | 03:27 |
| neatojones | ratio* | 03:27 |
| sisto | LinuxHack3r: but am planning on retiring it for a n810 | 03:27 |
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| LinuxHack3r | sisto: Cool. I can't wait for mine...it's going to be a long week or so. | 03:28 |
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| LinuxHack3r | Oh...cool. l8r | 03:34 |
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| sisto | i don't really know what was so cool about those... never owned one | 03:35 |
| bef0rd | sisto, there was a review of somebody comparing the n8x0/maemo with the newtons, let me see if I can find it | 03:35 |
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| sisto | bef0rd: this one? http://tabletui.wordpress.com/tag/newton/ | 03:40 |
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| sisto | or maybe this one http://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/n800/ | 03:41 |
| LinuxHack3r | I always buy sandisk...is it really the best? | 03:41 |
| bef0rd | sisto, yeap, that one, check the http://cs.gmu.edu/~sean/stuff/n800/os2008/ os2008 review too | 03:42 |
| sisto | bef0rd: thx | 03:42 |
| sisto | bef0rd: looks like an interesting read | 03:43 |
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| LinuxHack3r | sisto: neatojones So...is there some way to sync the nokia with plaxo? I love contact management made easy. | 03:48 |
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| sisto | good question... i wonder whether i could sync my google contacts with the n810 | 03:49 |
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| sisto | LinuxHack3r: btw i have no idea what plaxo is | 03:49 |
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| LinuxHack3r | sisto: plaxo.com....syncs my gmail...thunderbird....and a few others things' contacts. | 03:49 |
| sisto | oh cool | 03:50 |
| sisto | i sync thunderbird with google using a thunderbird plugin called zindus | 03:50 |
| LinuxHack3r | sisto: * Checks thunderbird plugins | 03:50 |
| LinuxHack3r | sisto: Ah yes...I thought that looked familiar...no wonder every contact I add to Thunderbird is synced to Gmail...then added to Plaxo. If my N810 will do plaxo...I'll be set. | 03:51 |
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| * sisto is watching burn notice | 03:53 | |
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| neatojones | My connection still sucks... | 03:54 |
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| LinuxHack3r | neatojones: So the entire Os fits on 256MB? | 03:57 |
| neatojones | LH: yes | 03:59 |
| neatojones | LH: with room to add programs that you like | 03:59 |
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| LinuxHack3r | Such as open-ssh, etc etc? | 04:01 |
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| LinuxHack3r | neatoHa! Battle for Wesnoth. It is a geeks device ;) | 04:04 |
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| `Mace | hm | 04:42 |
| `Mace | is it possible to install ubuntu or kubuntu on a macbook | 04:42 |
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| bef0rd | yes | 04:56 |
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| neato_jones | b-man: Do you know how to get an arm distro to use an armel repo? | 04:58 |
| b-man | yes | 04:59 |
| b-man | just add the repo url to /etc/apt/sorces.list, e.g. deb http://www.ports.ubuntu.com/ main univers | 05:00 |
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| b-man | the system will automaticly search for debs with "armel". | 05:02 |
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| neato_jones | well, mer will because it's already armel, but I'm trying to install a armel package in an arm repo | 05:03 |
| neato_jones | I mean from an arm distro | 05:04 |
| b-man | hmm | 05:04 |
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| neato_jones | it searches in binary-arm instead of binary-armel like in the mer repos and the ubuntu ports | 05:05 |
| b-man | dpkg --force-architecture? | 05:07 |
| b-man | that might help) | 05:07 |
| * b-man is installing/compiling busybox in gentoo on his n800 atm :) | 05:07 | |
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| neato_jones | hmm. I guess I could just install packages individually like that. | 05:08 |
| b-man | i think that might be the easyest way ;) | 05:09 |
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| neato_jones | I was trying to find the open embedded repositories, but couldn't come up with anything on google. | 05:18 |
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| b-man | neato_jones: would this help?; http://mojo.handhelds.org/hasty-armv6el-vfp | 05:25 |
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| neato_jones | b-man: thanks, that's what I ended up using. | 05:27 |
| neato_jones | unfortunately, the two distro still don't like each other much. | 05:28 |
| b-man|gentoo | hehe | 05:30 |
| neato_jones | so, I'm working on filing a bug in mer launchpad about the failed desktop load with gnome/xfce, but I've got no idea which package to blame | 05:31 |
| b-man|gentoo | might be xsessions :p | 05:31 |
| neato_jones | I just didn't list one...they're gonna love me\ | 05:34 |
| neato_jones | :D | 05:34 |
| neato_jones | probably should be a bug in the actually ubuntu jaunty... | 05:34 |
| neato_jones | from the way it sounds | 05:34 |
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| `Mace | this sucks | 05:45 |
| `Mace | stupid macboook wn'tboot with a normal bootloader | 05:45 |
| `Mace | won't | 05:45 |
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| `Mace | hm | 05:47 |
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| slonopotamus | hehe | 07:30 |
| slonopotamus | maemo clock goes crazy if you change /etc/localtime | 07:30 |
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| neatojones | has anyone out there who has tried mer think it is any faster than deblet or maemo? | 07:54 |
| benson | Haven't done enough to tell, really. | 07:54 |
| neatojones | It's hard for me to tell because you can't use any of the same window managers | 07:55 |
| Mousey | i use maemo | 07:55 |
| benson | Matchbox? | 07:55 |
| benson | Same for maemo and mer, right? | 07:55 |
| neatojones | I did flash mamona on to my device earlier today and it loads pages with midori much faster | 07:55 |
| neatojones | yeah, I guess that's true | 07:55 |
| neatojones | I never got it going on mine. | 07:56 |
| neatojones | my n810 can't get past the wizard in hildon | 07:56 |
| benson | The network connection wizard? | 07:56 |
| neatojones | nope, the add user wizard | 07:56 |
| neatojones | the n810 keyboard doesn't work and the on screen keyboard never popped up | 07:57 |
| benson | I had grief with the connection wizard overlapping windows so I couldn't dismiss the one underneath, which the top one was waiting on. | 07:57 |
| benson | Try clicking all around the box? | 07:57 |
| benson | My TS calibration is off by ~0.4 inch at the top edge of screen. | 07:58 |
| neatojones | hmm | 07:58 |
| benson | So I thought I had no onscreen keyboard for a while. But I was really missing the textbox entirely. | 07:58 |
| neatojones | Ill have to reinstall it | 07:59 |
| neatojones | the cursor was blinking in the box... | 07:59 |
| neatojones | Maybe I'm wrong | 07:59 |
| neatojones | I'll give it another go | 07:59 |
| neatojones | I"m installing deblet at the moment | 07:59 |
| neatojones | maybe I ought to toss it though and redo mer | 07:59 |
| benson | Not enough SD card to do both? | 08:00 |
| neatojones | I heard E17 updated some packages specifically for handheld devices | 08:00 |
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| neatojones | I do. I just formated it for one though | 08:00 |
| neatojones | I have another card. I just didn't want to try putting on two at one time | 08:00 |
| benson | I formatted mine for pentaboot, when I started; figured I'd not run out that way. | 08:01 |
| neatojones | I'm not entirely certain deblet hasn't stalled on me anyway. Maybe I'll give 'er another shot | 08:01 |
| benson | I'm using one for swap, and still have one not in use. :D | 08:01 |
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| neatojones | my modem keeps dying on me | 08:01 |
| neatojones | ATT is overnighting me a new one, but it's annoying because my internet keeps dying until it cools down | 08:02 |
| neatojones | so, big downloads keep making it croak | 08:02 |
| Macer | wow.. in order to install kubuntu on a macbook. you have to install osx. run bootcamp. create what it calls a "windows" partition... reboot. hold c. boot the cd. install kubuntu. reboot. and hold alt/opt to boot the kubuntu partition | 08:02 |
| Macer | there is no way to straight install it on x86 based macbooks :) | 08:02 |
| Macer | that is retarded | 08:02 |
| benson | Pull HDD from macbook, and install it on a real computer? | 08:03 |
| neatojones | Can you run the ubuntu straight from the cd? | 08:03 |
| Macer | neatojones: yes | 08:03 |
| Macer | benson: i don't think that works | 08:03 |
| Macer | mac boots of its internal firmware | 08:03 |
| Macer | which i'm pretty sure uses bootcamp in osx to change things like that.. it's kinda stupid | 08:04 |
| neatojones | yeah, the only thing you'd need is a bootloader | 08:04 |
| Macer | well.. you can't bypass bootcamp | 08:04 |
| Macer | and you can't control it from the boot screen | 08:04 |
| Macer | i'm sure you can use "t" when booting and turn it into a fw drive.. maybe doing something like that might work | 08:04 |
| benson | What a hassle... | 08:05 |
| Macer | it wouldn't have been if i read up on it BEFORE trying a straight install | 08:05 |
| Macer | so now i have to re-install osx :) | 08:05 |
| Macer | i want to wipe osx off this macbook.. osx is overrated | 08:05 |
| Macer | i personally hate it | 08:05 |
| neatojones | what about a virtual server | 08:06 |
| Macer | ? | 08:06 |
| neatojones | you can install it inside OSX | 08:06 |
| Macer | because.. i hate osx | 08:06 |
| neatojones | with virtualbox or VMWare | 08:06 |
| Macer | and don't want it | 08:06 |
| benson | Well, if one hates OSX, one would want to be rid of it, not have it clogging resources. | 08:06 |
| Macer | plus.. you take a performance hit doing that | 08:06 |
| benson | And not using it anyway. | 08:06 |
| Macer | the vm would run like garbage | 08:06 |
| Macer | not nearly as fast as running native | 08:06 |
| neatojones | you do. I just didn't know if you want to use it for a specific purpose like linux hacking or for everyday use | 08:07 |
| Macer | i'm actually wondering if i could just use osx for a moment and then wipe the osx partition later and growfs the ext3 partition | 08:07 |
| neatojones | I agree | 08:07 |
| Macer | linuxhacking? :) no.. i just want it for normal every day use | 08:07 |
| Macer | i hate osx.. it is not as good as people make it out to be | 08:07 |
| benson | He's installing kubuntu. That's not for Linux-hacking. | 08:08 |
| Macer | yes the underlying kernel and system is nice.. but the actual interface is incredibly lacking | 08:08 |
| benson | :p | 08:08 |
| neatojones | I'm waiting on a new computer (saving money) and my wife won't let me install linux as the default...so I'm stuck going virtual on a slow computer | 08:08 |
| Macer | benson: i like kde 4.1.x ;) | 08:08 |
| Macer | it's like a shitless vista | 08:08 |
| neatojones | and then I also qemu into armel from my virtual ubuntu on xp | 08:08 |
| benson | I hate KDE. Bad experience back with KDE 1.something, IIRC. | 08:08 |
| Macer | 1.x? hahaha | 08:09 |
| neatojones | I hate that everything starts with K | 08:09 |
| Macer | welcome to 1995 | 08:09 |
| benson | But GNOME keeps being annoyinger and annoyinger, so I started hating it some time ago too. | 08:09 |
| Macer | KDE 4.1.x is nice | 08:09 |
| neatojones | I get it, KDE is Kgreat | 08:09 |
| Macer | i hate gtk based shit | 08:09 |
| Macer | mostly because there seems to be inconsistency with developers | 08:09 |
| neatojones | I think they're about the same these days. Both have +'s and -'s | 08:09 |
| Macer | such as.. OK and CANCEL on a lot of windows.... are swapped up | 08:09 |
| benson | GTK's not bad, IMHO. I just don't like the way they chase configurability around with an ax | 08:09 |
| Macer | sometimes on the left sometimes on the right | 08:10 |
| benson | In the name of "usability". | 08:10 |
| Macer | and the overall look of gtk is dated | 08:10 |
| neatojones | New theme* | 08:10 |
| Macer | qt looks better than gtk | 08:10 |
| Macer | especially the newer stuff | 08:10 |
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| Macer | gtk looks very mid 90s | 08:10 |
| benson | Athena FTW! | 08:10 |
| neatojones | easy fix. I agree. Normal qt does. But, I get so annoyed at the K everything...I just haven't ever got past it | 08:10 |
| neatojones | I hated gnome when it was the same | 08:11 |
| benson | athena does not look mid-90's | 08:11 |
| Macer | heh.. well.. it is the best i have seen so far.. and i've tried quite a bit.. well.. at least for actual real world use | 08:11 |
| benson | mid-80's maybe. | 08:11 |
| Proteous | fuxin K, who whats that letter anyway, if k was cool cake would be spelled kake | 08:11 |
| Proteous | but it's not | 08:11 |
| Macer | normally i'd use blackbox to be bare.. but kde 4.1.x grew on me | 08:11 |
| Proteous | now Q, there is a letter I can get behind | 08:11 |
| benson | In KDE, it is! | 08:11 |
| Macer | Proteous: haha | 08:11 |
| neatojones | haha | 08:11 |
| Macer | someone already took CDE | 08:12 |
| Macer | bastards | 08:12 |
| neatojones | dang sun and their solaris | 08:12 |
| Macer | QDE? i could see it | 08:12 |
| Proteous | lol | 08:12 |
| benson | I like FVWM, especially for laptops. | 08:12 |
| Macer | i usually used blackbox | 08:12 |
| neatojones | I think anything other than terminal is for panzies | 08:12 |
| neatojones | (JK) | 08:12 |
| Macer | hah | 08:13 |
| Macer | probably.. guis are ok as long as you know how to get out of them | 08:13 |
| benson | But I'm planning to try a tiled WM on my desktop; it has the real-estate to handle it. | 08:13 |
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| neatojones | who needs stinking mice anyway | 08:13 |
| Macer | meaning if your gui doesn't work you should be able to fix things regardless | 08:13 |
| Macer | but osx is crap | 08:13 |
| Macer | it just grew on yuppies .. but it's absolute garbage | 08:13 |
| Macer | it reminds me of gtk :) | 08:13 |
| neatojones | did you try the ubuntuforums.org? | 08:14 |
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| neatojones | you remind me of gtk ;) | 08:14 |
| Macer | i mean cmon.. it's supposed to be an advanced OS ... yet.. you can't change the color of the desktop icon's font? | 08:14 |
| benson | O.o | 08:14 |
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| benson | That's... retarded. | 08:14 |
| neatojones | you can...you just have to pay money for a program that lets you | 08:14 |
| Macer | i thought so too | 08:14 |
| neatojones | it's the apple way | 08:14 |
| Macer | exactly! | 08:14 |
| Macer | hahaha | 08:14 |
| Macer | like changing the look requires 3rd party apps that cost money? | 08:15 |
| neatojones | they are seriously worse than MS | 08:15 |
| Macer | you can't change the color of the menu at the top | 08:15 |
| Macer | ? | 08:15 |
| Macer | something like that shouldn't cost $50 from someone else | 08:15 |
| benson | Isn't there a KDE on OSX project? | 08:15 |
| neatojones | yeah | 08:15 |
| neatojones | I tried KDE on windows the other day. | 08:15 |
| Macer | wow really.. does it get rid of aqua.. or whatever they call it | 08:15 |
| neatojones | It basically just lets you run KDE programs | 08:15 |
| Macer | oh | 08:16 |
| Macer | well. that sucks haha | 08:16 |
| Macer | i figured it replaced the wm | 08:16 |
| neatojones | I think you can drop the aqua, but it takes a lot more tampering | 08:16 |
| Macer | that would seriously be awesome | 08:16 |
| benson | Oh, I thought they had it working to replace everything. | 08:16 |
| Macer | hm.. maybe i can look around | 08:16 |
| Macer | what's it based on ... kde 3 or 4? | 08:16 |
| benson | Of course, you could just install *BSD and KDE, then... | 08:16 |
| Macer | yeah but getting 4.1.x to run in fbsd.. that sounds like a pain in the ass | 08:17 |
| benson | The whole point of OSX is to put shiny on BSD. | 08:17 |
| Macer | and they failed :) | 08:17 |
| benson | More pain than on OSX? | 08:17 |
| Macer | my g3 works great as a server still tho | 08:17 |
| Macer | i haven't had a monitor hooked up to it in like 4 years | 08:17 |
| Macer | if android gets a lot better.. i might set up my n800 as a server and see how that works out | 08:18 |
| neatojones | http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=1027937&highlight=mac | 08:20 |
| benson | Any mer devs around? | 08:20 |
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| neatojones | better yet: http://ubuntuforums.org/forumdisplay.php?f=328 | 08:21 |
| neatojones | Macer: The stickies at the top of the last link I posted for you look like they have the info you are looking for | 08:23 |
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| neatojones | Macer: Check this one out too: https://help.ubuntu.com/community/MacBook | 08:25 |
| neatojones | just follow the instrcutions to figure out which version of macbook you have and then click the link for instructions specific to your version. | 08:25 |
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| Macer | neatojones: i did that like 5 hours ago | 08:28 |
| Macer | all those links lead to the same instructions | 08:28 |
| Macer | trust me.. ive been looking around for a while now and the only way to do it is to have osx on the macbook | 08:28 |
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| neatojones | so, you tried hitting c during bootup and then tab or whatever to select the ubuntu partition? | 08:30 |
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| neatojones | It looks like rEFIt is the way to go. | 08:33 |
| neatojones | did you try that too? | 08:33 |
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| neatojones | benson: in which direction was the touch off? | 08:36 |
| neatojones | where should I touch? | 08:37 |
| neatojones | I ought to be more specific, eh? I mean, if I want to grab a dialog box, in what general direction should it be touching the screen | 08:37 |
| benson | Well, I'm on an N800, so maybe not the same. | 08:38 |
| benson | But I had to tap 0.4" below the item | 08:38 |
| neatojones | bummer. Has anyone else with an N810 done it | 08:38 |
| neatojones | alright. Deblet is almost done unpacking so, I'll try it on my internel just for kicks. | 08:39 |
| neatojones | Meiz: Have you seen this?: http://www.linuxdevices.com/news/NS7635920803.html | 08:41 |
| neatojones | I'm going to try to get Illume going in deblet | 08:41 |
| Macer | reFIt requires osx ;) | 08:43 |
| Macer | so it's all thet same | 08:43 |
| benson | neatojones: cool stuff | 08:45 |
| neatojones | I don't think reFIt does. It claims you can put it on a cd and use it straight from the cd | 08:45 |
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| neatojones | If Illume works on deblet then, I'll try to "upgrade" it to mer. Sounds crazy, but I actually got it to work once. | 08:46 |
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| * ccooke notes a couple of articles about Seed in gnome. I wonder how applicable that could be in Maemo. | 09:15 | |
| mavhc | what's it do? | 09:21 |
| Macer | well. neatojones was right | 09:28 |
| Macer | you can just boot the rEFit cd and get it working | 09:28 |
| Macer | kubuntu is booting now haha | 09:28 |
| Macer | bbl.. going to make sure it doesn't suck | 09:28 |
| neatojones | does kubuntu use KDE 4 or 3? | 09:28 |
| neatojones | I thought it used 3 still | 09:29 |
| neatojones | you'll probably have to upgrade packages to 4 | 09:29 |
| neatojones | Macer: try installing the rEFIt to your system and see if it still works. | 09:29 |
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| ccooke | mavhc: Seed? It's a linkage between the webkit javascript core and GObject. | 09:38 |
| ccooke | http://live.gnome.org/Seed | 09:38 |
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| Macer | neotojones | 09:50 |
| Macer | it's working ;) | 09:50 |
| Macer | i used the rEFIt boot disc.. i didn't notice they had one | 09:50 |
| Macer | it just changed the partition table and now kubuntu is booting on mymacbook... so far the only problem i found is the sound isn't playing | 09:50 |
| Macer | don't know exactly why but it is working great | 09:51 |
| neatojones | Maybe lack of drivers | 09:54 |
| neatojones | make sure they aren't restricted drivers too. May have to be enabled | 09:54 |
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| aquatix | morning all | 10:13 |
| timelE61i | Yes | 10:14 |
| Macer | neatojones: nope.. it was just because my pcm channel was turned all the way down | 10:15 |
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| Macer | sorry. trying to get the right click working | 10:15 |
| Macer | once i'm done with that then everything is downhill :) | 10:15 |
| Macer | i can mod my kubuntu macbook | 10:16 |
| Macer | i told you .. i'm going to confuse all the yuppies and tell them it's the new unreleased osx | 10:16 |
| RST38h | [1] 15:58 RST38h (away) on #maemo (+cn) * type /helehlo all | 10:16 |
| Macer | haha | 10:16 |
| RST38h | hmmm | 10:16 |
| Macer | at least 60% of idiotic mac users would believe me | 10:16 |
| RST38h | what about the remaining 40% idiotic mac users? | 10:17 |
| johnx | Macer, and even where it was obviously worse than current Mac OS they'd call it an awesome improvement :) | 10:17 |
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| RST38h | johnx: this wont work unless steve jobs presents it to them personally | 10:18 |
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| johnx | nah, I think I just need to get my hands on his reality distortion device | 10:18 |
| RST38h | it is probably something delivered through skin contact | 10:19 |
| johnx | i mean, obviously it wasn't working for him when he was trying to sell NeXTStep, so it must be something he acquired later | 10:19 |
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| RST38h | worked well on the original apples | 10:20 |
| RST38h | so apple may hold a patent to this | 10:20 |
| johnx | aaah, very likely | 10:20 |
| johnx | but it seems only jobs can use it right | 10:20 |
| RST38h | they modified him genetically and now it has caused cancer! | 10:21 |
| Passeli | anyone using Qt 4.5 beta1 in N800 ? | 10:21 |
| RST38h | cruel bastards these apple guys | 10:21 |
| Passeli | i have problem with virtual keyboard, it will overlap areas in qt application | 10:21 |
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| RST38h | passeli: it is called beta for a reason | 10:22 |
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| Passeli | yeah, i was just thinking that if anyone has find any solution for it | 10:25 |
| Passeli | or do i have to wait new release where it is fixed | 10:25 |
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| Macer | johnx - yeah.. they would | 10:27 |
| Macer | haha | 10:27 |
| Macer | nextstep was awesome | 10:28 |
| Macer | :) | 10:28 |
| Macer | wish i could get my hands on a cube | 10:28 |
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| Macer | they're kind of a bitch to find now tho | 10:28 |
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| Macer | hm | 10:32 |
| Macer | i need to figure out how to right click with this goddamn one button macbook mouse in kde 4 | 10:32 |
| Macer | wtf apple.. 1 button mouse? get with it! :) | 10:32 |
| Macer | is that $0.0003 chinese button really that much of a pain on the bottom line? | 10:32 |
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| X-Fade | Morning. | 11:09 |
| slonopotamus | hi | 11:09 |
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| * Stskeeps is pissed at himself. turns out the book for the exam tomorrow wasn't at his office, but at his shelf at home. | 11:21 | |
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| hell | hello. can i start applets from xterm, and watch output? | 11:31 |
| timelE61i | Yes | 11:32 |
| timelE61i | In some cases you may have to stop a daemon and run it from the term. Or slightly modify the start script | 11:33 |
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| hell | timelE61i: how? as i understand, applet is just lib for some hildon binary? | 11:34 |
| Stskeeps | alterego: how's the beagle doing? | 11:34 |
| alterego | I've not even booted it yet O_O | 11:34 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 11:34 |
| alterego | I've been really busy at work. | 11:34 |
| timelE61i | oh, appl*et* | 11:35 |
| timelE61i | For that you'll need to run desktop from the term | 11:35 |
| timelE61i | Sorry, busy | 11:35 |
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| hell | timelE61i: yeah, my gpesummary works very strange, it shows calendars event, but it cannot start calendar, and doesn't show todo's, but start gpe-todo well. | 11:36 |
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| hell | so, how developers debug their applets? | 11:38 |
| Stskeeps | log files maybe | 11:39 |
| Stskeeps | or actually, they test it in scratchbox | 11:40 |
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| Macer | hm | 11:48 |
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| Macer | i offended mac people because i told them that osx is overrated and macs are overpriced :) | 11:49 |
| * Macer is enjoying his macbook much more with kubuntu on it | 11:49 | |
| Macer | i have to get root on my G1 | 11:49 |
| solmumaha | Macer: i wasn't offended | 11:49 |
| Macer | guess they have adhoc hackery similar to an iphone for it | 11:50 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: having to hack my own device is one reason why i dont want a G1 | 11:50 |
| Macer | which would be pretty awesome | 11:50 |
| Stskeeps | also, the developer key stuff is outrageous | 11:50 |
| Macer | Stskeeps: haha.. i know.. it's stupid | 11:50 |
| Macer | it sure is | 11:50 |
| Macer | you have to register.. then pay extra for an unlocked dev phone | 11:50 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 11:50 |
| Macer | the open sourced nazis :) | 11:50 |
| Stskeeps | did you see the Mer release, btw? | 11:51 |
| Macer | there are more devices coming out though.. so hopefully other companies won't be so anal... but i need to get root on it | 11:51 |
| Macer | no.. not yet.. have to work on a couple other things first | 11:51 |
| Macer | getting rid of osx is done tho :) | 11:51 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 11:51 |
| Stskeeps | intel mac? | 11:51 |
| Macer | yeah | 11:51 |
| Macer | macbook (black one) | 11:52 |
| Stskeeps | then you can grab virtualbox for os x and try out the VDI eventually :) | 11:52 |
| Macer | thank god i noticed rEFIt can boot | 11:52 |
| Macer | haha.. screw osx.. it disgusts me | 11:52 |
| Macer | all the macbook hardware is working in kubuntu so i'm a lot happier | 11:52 |
| Macer | and i don't need 3rd party software to keep it out of sleep mode | 11:53 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 11:53 |
| Macer | and i can change my desktop icon font colors | 11:53 |
| Macer | you know. all that shit that they decided to leave out | 11:53 |
| Macer | i thought the inability to change 99% of the colors in osx was also a wonderful apple idea | 11:53 |
| Macer | </sarcasm> | 11:53 |
| Macer | i changed my background in osx one day and noticed i couldn't see the icon fonts.. so i figured i'd just go into some settings pane somewhere and be able to change it | 11:54 |
| Macer | which is where i realized that osx totally sucked ass.. the underlying stuff is good.. but the gui itself should have produced fired and murdered apple developers | 11:55 |
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| * Macer points at the 3rd party software requirement for keeping osx out of sleep mode | 11:55 | |
| Macer | i mean.. come on! :) | 11:56 |
| johnx | yup, it's apple's way or the highway | 11:56 |
| Stskeeps | morning johnx | 11:56 |
| johnx | mornin' Stskeeps | 11:56 |
| johnx | reading the mer 0.6 thread :) | 11:56 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: http://jaiku.com/channel/merbuilder <- if it bombs on armel-sb, it will continue to armel native, and show a straightjacket if it completed natively | 11:56 |
| Stskeeps | as in, not satisfactory (it took 19793s to compile libvte), but it worked | 11:57 |
| Stskeeps | also, build-x86 packagename for the arch-indep packages from now on | 11:57 |
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| Stskeeps | so it doesn't try to take in the huge machinery for an 'all' package ;) | 11:58 |
| johnx | hmm, I was thinking it might be good to *not* fall back on native sometimes. any thought on making it part of the build command? | 11:58 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: yeah, but that complicates builder :P | 11:58 |
| Stskeeps | i'll look at it later | 11:58 |
| Stskeeps | we just need some python packages atm | 11:59 |
| johnx | aaah, don't worry then | 11:59 |
| Macer | well.. let me get back to boston legal | 11:59 |
| Stskeeps | oh btw, we solved the start-hildon chroot xephyr thing | 11:59 |
| johnx | ah, what was the trick? | 11:59 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: mount --bind /tmp/.X11-unix instead of /tmp | 11:59 |
| Stskeeps | and /etc/init.d/dbus start inside chroot | 11:59 |
| Macer | this show cracks me up | 12:00 |
| Stskeeps | if /tmp is mounted, it conflicts with system dbus | 12:00 |
| johnx | good deal | 12:00 |
| johnx | anyways, I've got to get ready for work. I'm about halfway through re-working some of first-boot wizard to set passwords, ask about turning on swap (and potentially copy over ssh keys or regenerate new ones) | 12:02 |
| Stskeeps | alright | 12:02 |
| Stskeeps | there seems to be trouble with N810 and HIM, i'm not sure why | 12:02 |
| Macer | quark is on boston legal | 12:02 |
| Macer | 7 of 9 was on it in an earlier epsiode... i don't think she is too hot as a normal person | 12:02 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: i'll get meiz poking at it later | 12:02 |
| Macer | without the skin tight uniform and eye implant | 12:02 |
| Stskeeps | Macer: it's easy to excite nerds. | 12:03 |
| johnx | what kind of issue? keymap? X11 crash? | 12:03 |
| Macer | Stskeeps: haha.. i guess .. she was absolutely hot in voyager | 12:03 |
| johnx | back later | 12:03 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: no typing | 12:04 |
| Macer | but then again she always had her hair up and again... the skin tight uniform | 12:04 |
| lcuk | are you talking about chakotey again :P | 12:04 |
| Macer | well. i believe at the end of voyager she was mrs chakotey | 12:04 |
| lcuk | mmmmmmmmmm 7 of 9 goodness | 12:05 |
| Stskeeps | i still maintain allison hannigan was the hottest actress, but that's just me.. | 12:05 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:05 |
| Macer | she had more of a dirty librarian look in voyager | 12:05 |
| lcuk | no, its not | 12:05 |
| Macer | allison hannigan? | 12:05 |
| Stskeeps | girl who played willow in buffy and flute girl in american pie :P | 12:05 |
| Macer | the redhead? | 12:05 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 12:06 |
| Macer | hm... i dunno about that.. but i guess everybody has their taste | 12:06 |
| Macer | i couldn't believe how hot laura prepon was from that 70s show | 12:06 |
| Macer | until i saw her in maxim or something | 12:06 |
| lcuk | i dunno, before my time | 12:07 |
| Macer | heh | 12:07 |
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| Macer | http://images.askmen.com/galleries/actress/alyson-hannigan/pictures/alyson-hannigan-picture-1.jpg | 12:08 |
| Macer | she looks pretty good there | 12:08 |
| lcuk | i had an epic battle (of my own doing last night) with fremantle sdk and gcc4 :'( | 12:08 |
| lcuk | macer dont tease i cant ogle actual images at work | 12:08 |
| Macer | why not? | 12:09 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: i was going to stop you but i thought the lesson might be valuable | 12:09 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:09 |
| Macer | that's just messed up Stskeeps | 12:09 |
| lcuk | heh | 12:09 |
| Stskeeps | also, i was half-asleep | 12:09 |
| lcuk | no, i learnt a lot about apt i think | 12:09 |
| Macer | he just wanted you to lose all your hair before him | 12:09 |
| lcuk | macer, tbh i wasnt that bothered, the worst that wouldv happened would be a reflash - and a side effect of that is that i would document the process of getting gcc and normal sdk directly on device :) | 12:10 |
| Macer | http://www.wallpaperbase.com/wallpapers/celebs/alysonhannigan/alyson_hannigan_7.jpg | 12:10 |
| lcuk | i keep waiting for an excuse but spit feathers at actually having to spend time setting up rather than coding | 12:10 |
| Macer | she is pretty cute | 12:11 |
| * lcuk is pretty sure hes seen almost ever alyson hannigan picture ever taken | 12:11 | |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: besides that mer has new gcc and sqlite :P | 12:12 |
| lcuk | yeah, well fremantle does, there was a couple of functions i wanted and were only in latest, i did some modifications to code and just used the old one (after repairing everything and sorting out EABI issues and reforcing updates and downgrades and all kinds of brainfck | 12:13 |
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| Stskeeps | hehe | 12:13 |
| lcuk | it works really nicely i just need import routines and i can do some actual tests on calendar/timekeeping | 12:13 |
| hell | `/j #gpe | 12:14 |
| lcuk | anyway, bbl | 12:14 |
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| Stskeeps | morning meiz | 12:18 |
| Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: can you at some point take 0.6 image, test if the keyboard works in the first boot wizard, and if HIM works? | 12:18 |
| Meiz_n810 | i have tested it already, both were working | 12:19 |
| Stskeeps | odd | 12:19 |
| * Meiz_n810 installed 0.6 yesterday | 12:19 | |
| Meiz_n810 | Stskeeps: what's odd? | 12:19 |
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| Stskeeps | neatojones had issues with it, so :P | 12:20 |
| Stskeeps | i should really get a n810 at work to test on.. | 12:20 |
| Meiz_n810 | the jffs2 image? | 12:20 |
| Stskeeps | no, he tested installer + tar.gz too so | 12:20 |
| Meiz_n810 | okay | 12:20 |
| Meiz_n810 | i didn't use installer btw. just manually unpacked the tar.gz | 12:22 |
| Macer | hm | 12:22 |
| Meiz_n810 | Stskeeps: i have once had same problem. (h-i-m not coming up) | 12:25 |
| Meiz_n810 | but i am not sure if i used the installer | 12:25 |
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| Stskeeps | we'll see i guess | 12:25 |
| Stskeeps | i guess it might be useful to try and make testcase stuff at some point, heh | 12:26 |
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| Macer | wow | 12:31 |
| Macer | now neelix is on boston legal | 12:31 |
| Macer | so far they have almost had the entire voyager cast haha | 12:31 |
| Stskeeps | boston legal is actually just a time traveller episode of voyager | 12:33 |
| Macer | hahaha | 12:33 |
| Macer | soon tuvok is going to teleport into court | 12:34 |
| Macer | i thought one of the funniest moments was when william shatner opened his cell phone and it made that old school communicator noise from the capt kirk days | 12:34 |
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| mavhc | so boston legal is a comedy? | 12:35 |
| Stskeeps | if you're a star trek fan, it is, seemingily :P | 12:37 |
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| * Stskeeps pokes garage svn viewer with a stick | 12:39 | |
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| Stskeeps | eh. | 12:53 |
| * garage_svn_viewe pokes stskeeps with a bigger stick | 12:53 | |
| Stskeeps | knew that was coming | 12:54 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:54 |
| garage_svn_viewe | :D | 12:54 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 13:14 |
| slonopotamus | gimme the source | 13:15 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, http://repository.mer.tspre.org/pool/main/x/xorg-server-xomap/ no sources :-/ what did you build that from? | 13:16 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: you don't want to build that one | 13:16 |
| Stskeeps | i'm throwing it out soon so | 13:16 |
| Stskeeps | use xf86-video-omfab | 13:16 |
| Stskeeps | omapfb | 13:16 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, with what xserver? | 13:16 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, vanilla xorg? | 13:17 |
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| Stskeeps | yes | 13:18 |
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| luke-jr | Any ideas what the initial price of the OMAP3 Nokia tablet will be? | 13:18 |
| Stskeeps | nop | 13:18 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, hm... what about memory consumption? have you tried that? | 13:19 |
| inz | luke, what you can afford + some | 13:19 |
| slonopotamus | :D | 13:19 |
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| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: it's an xorg + a smallish driver | 13:20 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:20 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, i know. i'm worried of xorg | 13:21 |
| slonopotamus | hmm... worried with? | 13:21 |
| slonopotamus | worried by? | 13:21 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: it's not bad compared to the advantages we get from it | 13:21 |
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| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, maemo Xomap = Xorg + omapfb? | 13:22 |
| Stskeeps | no, xomap is a kdrive version | 13:22 |
| Stskeeps | they merged xorg and kdrive in latest versions | 13:22 |
| luke-jr | inz: what I can afford is probably capped at $200 for the moment ☺ | 13:23 |
| slonopotamus | omg. | 13:23 |
| slonopotamus | i can build xorg-server with USE="kdrive" :) | 13:23 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: save 100$ up a month and you'll have the money for it when it comes up :) | 13:23 |
| slonopotamus | will that be xorg or kdrive? :) | 13:23 |
| Stskeeps | no clue | 13:23 |
| X-Fade | luke-jr: My guess is that that is not enough.. | 13:23 |
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| slonopotamus | xorg can be ./configure'd with --with-kdrive | 13:24 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: I could, but I'd like to compare and see if it's worth the waiting/saving or if I should just grab a N810 :þ | 13:24 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: n800's are dead cheap too these days | 13:24 |
| luke-jr | n800 lacks a keyboard though | 13:25 |
| luke-jr | and tbh, even the N810's benefit is basically 64 MB more RAM | 13:26 |
| Stskeeps | eh | 13:26 |
| luke-jr | than my Zaurus SL-C760 | 13:26 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 13:26 |
| luke-jr | and a working battery | 13:26 |
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| slonopotamus | luke-jr, uh? n810 has more ram? | 13:27 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: than a zaurus | 13:27 |
| slonopotamus | ah | 13:27 |
| luke-jr | if N900 adds cell internet and 256 MB RAM, it'd def be worth saving/waiting for | 13:28 |
| luke-jr | otherwise, probably not | 13:28 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: it definately adds cell internet | 13:28 |
| Wooly | anyone know of a notification daemon that will allow me to click-to-dismiss? | 13:29 |
| slonopotamus | i see 6 zaurus's | 13:29 |
| Stskeeps | Wooly: you can always hack the notifications | 13:29 |
| Wooly | that would be the last resort | 13:29 |
| Stskeeps | also the best probably | 13:29 |
| Wooly | the notification time-out uses a "simulate close" function, which I think I could link to a mouse-event | 13:30 |
| luke-jr | slonopotamus: SL-C760/860 is what I have, and quite nice | 13:30 |
| Wooly | i just wanted to be sure that no-one had done it already | 13:30 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i-january_2009-part_ii/ | 13:30 |
| Stskeeps | curent rumours | 13:30 |
| Stskeeps | +r | 13:30 |
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| slonopotamus | hildon, gpe, qtopia... pick one :) | 13:32 |
| luke-jr | well, the Qtopia back in Zaurus era sucked :/ | 13:33 |
| luke-jr | ♡ Qt tho | 13:33 |
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| luke-jr | I wonder why nobody seems to care to make clamshells anymore | 13:35 |
| luke-jr | seems the obvious solution to protect from scratches and such, rather than a case | 13:35 |
| glass | they waste space | 13:35 |
| glass | good devices don't need protecting from scratches and such | 13:35 |
| aquatix | it has to be rather hard safire not to crack when stuck between other things in a bag | 13:37 |
| aquatix | or damage the touchscreen part | 13:37 |
| aquatix | digitiser | 13:37 |
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| GeneralAntilles | My phone now likes to pull random text messages out from 6 months ago and notify me of them now. . . . | 13:42 |
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| StsN800 | ghost in the machine eh | 13:44 |
| luke-jr | glass: anything with a LCD needs protection from scratches | 13:44 |
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| GeneralAntilles | StsN800, it's rather unnerving. | 13:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | StsN800, especially when one of them was from my old girlfriend. <_< | 13:45 |
| X-Fade | Booty call? :) | 13:47 |
| StsN800 | back 2 years when my mom died i sent a msg to my not-yet-gf that something bad happened and we couldn't meet up wednesday.. she got told by one of my friends, so she was confused when the message i sent came delayed a week later, heh | 13:47 |
| StsN800 | stupid texting systems at times | 13:48 |
| aquatix | a week? that's rather bad | 13:50 |
| luke-jr | if the "N900" has cell internet, any reason i couldn't use VoIP over that for my normal phone use? ;) | 13:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, sadly, no. :P | 13:50 |
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| glass | luke-jr: well some nokias phones do voip over 3g too.. | 13:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, no. | 13:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, any limitation wont be software-side anyway. | 13:51 |
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| Macer | boston legal just got a little far fetched with the whole midget thing | 13:51 |
| Macer | although alan shore does seem to be getting more funny | 13:52 |
| luke-jr | ☺ | 13:53 |
| luke-jr | so I guess the big question is how much the service costs >_< | 13:53 |
| aquatix | ye | 13:53 |
| aquatix | *yep | 13:53 |
| aquatix | and whether the providers won't throttle/firewall voip | 13:54 |
| X-Fade | Or even have a clause in their contract ;) | 13:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, depends greatly on your provider. | 13:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm fairly certain it'll be a $30-a-month data-only plan from AT&T here in the States. | 13:54 |
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| aquatix | that's about as much as i pay for 20MBit adsl here | 13:55 |
| Macer | your dsl goes that fast? | 13:57 |
| Macer | what ever happened to sdsl? :) | 13:58 |
| aquatix | well, mine does not, as i'm too far from the exchange | 13:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | StsN800, you're going to have to establish a less real-time discussion place if you want to get fanoush involved, apparently. :P | 13:58 |
| Macer | i doubt thre are many that do go that fast | 13:58 |
| aquatix | but it's the full-out subscription | 13:58 |
| X-Fade | Macer: Mine does. | 13:58 |
| aquatix | 16MBit is really doable | 13:58 |
| aquatix | i had 12+MBit for a while on 3600m from the exchange even, now i have 8MBit | 13:58 |
| Macer | lol | 13:59 |
| aquatix | the cable provider here is going to do 30MBit in a short while | 13:59 |
| aquatix | and up to 80MBit in a year | 13:59 |
| aquatix | so i'm thinking about switching isp's even | 14:00 |
| luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: how about Sprint? tbh, it seems the other providers have poor coverage | 14:00 |
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| StsN800 | GeneralAntilles, yeah i know - wanted to establish a small core of people here first | 14:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, Verizon has the best overall coverage in the US. | 14:02 |
| luke-jr | do they? | 14:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, but it's highly region-depenent. | 14:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Some providers are better in certain areas than others. | 14:03 |
| luke-jr | with Sprint, I mostly always have full 3 bars, and only lose service inside very insulated buildings or the trek from Omaha to Kansas City where there's literally nothing ;p | 14:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nextel tended to have much better coverage in the South than the North for instance (before the Sprint merger). | 14:03 |
| StsN800 | GeneralAntilles, i'll set up mailing list on mer garage | 14:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, bars don't necessarily translate well to data coverage. | 14:04 |
| luke-jr | hm | 14:04 |
| luke-jr | would be neat if it supported cell phone stuff too, so I could have my Asterisk box failover to that link if the data was poor | 14:05 |
| aquatix | heh, a voip to cell phone switchbox on your n900 | 14:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Meh | 14:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Real cellular voice brings with it too many evils. | 14:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's not something you can just blithely add to a device. | 14:06 |
| luke-jr | o? | 14:06 |
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| GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, there are many more regulatory and carrier requirements to consider when you add cellular. | 14:07 |
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| GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, in the end, I'm fairly certain it what destroy what makes Maemo Maemo. | 14:07 |
| aquatix | GeneralAntilles: true | 14:07 |
| aquatix | better hook it up to your favourite phone | 14:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just look at how locked-down Android is. | 14:08 |
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| aquatix | GeneralAntilles: otoh, there's openmoko | 14:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | aquatix, yes, well, and look where they are. ;) | 14:08 |
| luke-jr | aquatix: I don't want a separate phone | 14:08 |
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| GeneralAntilles | armv4 | 14:08 |
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| GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, you really do. :P | 14:09 |
| aquatix | luke-jr: i can imagine | 14:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | You don't want to be carrying your tablet around with you everywhere. | 14:09 |
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| aquatix | but atm i think it's the best option | 14:09 |
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| b-man | morning everyone | 14:09 |
| X-Fade | Small and simple phone + tablet :D | 14:09 |
| aquatix | and besides, a tablet is just a tad too large to lug around everywhere imho | 14:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | ^ | 14:09 |
| aquatix | X-Fade: yeah | 14:09 |
| luke-jr | GeneralAntilles: no I don't | 14:09 |
| * aquatix even has a smallish smartphone with it | 14:10 | |
| GeneralAntilles | and too expensive to risk taking to a party where you're likely to be dropped in a pool. | 14:10 |
| aquatix | luke-jr: :) | 14:10 |
| luke-jr | the entire purpose of a tablet is to carry it everywhere | 14:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, hardly. | 14:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's to carry ALMOST everywhere. | 14:10 |
| aquatix | luke-jr: and then drop it in a glass of beer? ;) | 14:10 |
| luke-jr | otherwise I'd just bring my laptop | 14:10 |
| X-Fade | lardman|gone: Almost anywhere, sure ;) | 14:10 |
| luke-jr | aquatix: I don't drink. | 14:10 |
| aquatix | or in the toilet | 14:10 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Drinking is a bad place to bring your tablet. :P | 14:10 |
| aquatix | GeneralAntilles: or anything electronic :) | 14:11 |
| luke-jr | my current cell phone is 5 years old | 14:11 |
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| luke-jr | I don't have those kind of problems. | 14:11 |
| * aquatix almost drowned his smartphone last FOSDEM's beer event | 14:11 | |
| aquatix | luke-jr: me neither | 14:11 |
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| aquatix | luke-jr: but imho, a tablet is a tad too large to use as phone | 14:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | aquatix, well, except for that cheap phone X-Fade's talking about. ;) | 14:12 |
| aquatix | luke-jr: or did you want to use a head piece with it | 14:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Side talkin'! | 14:12 |
| aquatix | GeneralAntilles: :) | 14:12 |
| aquatix | side talking-- | 14:12 |
| * X-Fade 's N95 got a nice beer shower when Kees kicked a beer glass at LinuxTag ;) | 14:12 | |
| luke-jr | aquatix: I have a headset for my Zaurus ;) | 14:12 |
| aquatix | X-Fade: fun | 14:12 |
| luke-jr | would it be compatible? | 14:12 |
| aquatix | luke-jr: wired or wireless? | 14:12 |
| luke-jr | wired | 14:12 |
| aquatix | btw, nokia has a wired headpiece included even | 14:13 |
| luke-jr | it uses Left for mic, Right for speaker | 14:13 |
| X-Fade | It survived though.. | 14:13 |
| luke-jr | I think | 14:13 |
| luke-jr | or vice-versa | 14:13 |
| aquatix | and my jabra bluetooth one works well with it too | 14:13 |
| aquatix | X-Fade: heh, nice | 14:13 |
| * aquatix is looking at the Nokia N97 and the Palm Pre as new phones | 14:13 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 14:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Expensive. | 14:14 |
| aquatix | yep | 14:14 |
| aquatix | but i like my PIM in my pocket | 14:14 |
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| aquatix | preferably with touchscreen and qwerty | 14:14 |
| aquatix | a maemo phone would be awesome too | 14:14 |
| luke-jr | I've almost given up on PIM, period, tbh | 14:14 |
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| * aquatix uses it daily | 14:14 | |
| aquatix | the UIQ3/symbian one works fine for me | 14:15 |
| luke-jr | I don't want to use anything GTK :/ | 14:15 |
| aquatix | even syncs nicely with ScheduleWorld | 14:15 |
| lopz | hola | 14:15 |
| aquatix | luke-jr: eh? | 14:15 |
| aquatix | PIM is personal information manager in general | 14:15 |
| luke-jr | yeah | 14:15 |
| luke-jr | and KDE 4's PIM totally sucks | 14:15 |
| aquatix | ah | 14:15 |
| aquatix | myeah, i use evolution now and then with scheduleworld | 14:15 |
| aquatix | but generally just use my phone for it | 14:16 |
| luke-jr | evolution is GTK ;) | 14:16 |
| aquatix | i know | 14:16 |
| aquatix | i've standardised on gtk | 14:16 |
| Stskeeps | aquatix: we plan to make freerunner a maemophone ;P | 14:16 |
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| aquatix | Stskeeps: that's cool | 14:16 |
| aquatix | but freerunner sucks :) | 14:16 |
| luke-jr | lol | 14:16 |
| Stskeeps | if we can get ubuntu compiled for armv4t :P | 14:16 |
| aquatix | i want a phone that lasts the day ;) | 14:16 |
| aquatix | and has a keyboard to boot | 14:16 |
| aquatix | Stskeeps: :) | 14:17 |
| luke-jr | eh | 14:17 |
| aquatix | Stskeeps: can't you use debian instead? | 14:17 |
| luke-jr | my cell lasts a day | 14:17 |
| luke-jr | as long as I leave it on the charger | 14:17 |
| Stskeeps | aquatix: possibly, but there are some problems with package name differences | 14:17 |
| aquatix | heh | 14:17 |
| aquatix | mine almost a week | 14:17 |
| aquatix | Stskeeps: ah | 14:17 |
| aquatix | it'd be interesting to have a nokia n97 with 800x480 screen and maemo | 14:19 |
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| aquatix | but that's not going to happen i guess | 14:19 |
| X-Fade | aquatix: My guess is that if we really make Maemo rock, that is only a logical step.. | 14:20 |
| aquatix | true | 14:20 |
| aquatix | but nokia has other plans i think | 14:20 |
| aquatix | something to do with an open source symbian and qt | 14:20 |
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| * GeneralAntilles wonders idly if anybody ever remix Jive Talking to Side Talking. | 14:20 | |
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| luke-jr | so what's the current status of a 100% Free N810 firmware? | 14:22 |
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| Stskeeps | luke-jr: it won't be 100% free because we need some things like wifi firmware, bluetooth firmware, battery handling | 14:24 |
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| Stskeeps | but everything relevant.. | 14:24 |
| opengeekv2 | hey i have the vdi image running on virtualbox how can i open a terminal in mer to run whatever apps that it has | 14:24 |
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| wazd | Internet, at last! | 14:24 |
| luke-jr | firmware aside for now | 14:24 |
| aquatix | wazd! | 14:24 |
| luke-jr | wtf does battery handling have to do with it? | 14:24 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: BME | 14:24 |
| luke-jr | … | 14:24 |
| Stskeeps | closed source, liability | 14:24 |
| luke-jr | ? | 14:24 |
| X-Fade | luke-jr: It won't charge for example ;) | 14:24 |
| Stskeeps | you can make a battery explode with an open source version of it, so | 14:25 |
| X-Fade | luke-jr: Charging is software controlled. | 14:25 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:25 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: you can make a battery explode with a closed source version of it too | 14:25 |
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| luke-jr | or without any software for that matter | 14:25 |
| luke-jr | just throw it in a fire | 14:25 |
| aquatix | Stskeeps: shush, don't make the CIA think you can make an OSS bomb | 14:25 |
| X-Fade | luke-jr: Yes, but then Nokia is liable. | 14:25 |
| luke-jr | why? | 14:25 |
| lcuk | microsoft can make a closed source bomb, why cant we :D | 14:25 |
| aquatix | ghehe | 14:25 |
| X-Fade | If you get injured by their product? | 14:26 |
| lcuk | or do you doubt windows ME was a WMD? | 14:26 |
| X-Fade | Lawyers will love that one ;) | 14:26 |
| aquatix | lcuk: it was a WMF | 14:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, because lawyers and legislators are silly people. | 14:26 |
| Stskeeps | opengeekv2: ctrl-alt-f1 is a good start | 14:26 |
| Stskeeps | and log in as root/rootme | 14:26 |
| luke-jr | X-Fade: you can modify a binary to be bad | 14:26 |
| hell | Stskeeps: so, having root access and doing some reverse engineering, someone can explode battery? | 14:26 |
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| Stskeeps | hell: yes, basically | 14:26 |
| Stskeeps | but then it's your own fault | 14:26 |
| X-Fade | luke-jr: Sure, but modify equals warranty loss. | 14:27 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: same as if you modify source | 14:27 |
| lcuk | x-fade to lighten the mood, i think i can do a really nice practical thing with the multitouch :) shall see in the coming weeks | 14:27 |
| luke-jr | X-Fade: so modify source = warranty loss too | 14:27 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: also there's probably a bunch of patents regarding power saving and trade secrets | 14:27 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: Do tell :) | 14:27 |
| hell | Stskeeps: i thnk, every user of N810 have rootsh installed | 14:27 |
| opengeekv2 | yes nut when i make this the host goes to the terminal | 14:27 |
| Stskeeps | so | 14:27 |
| opengeekv2 | not the guest | 14:27 |
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| Stskeeps | i don't blame nokia | 14:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | hell, I think that's BS. :) | 14:27 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: patents are something to blame for | 14:27 |
| Stskeeps | opengeekv2: hmm, you can lock the keyboard to there i think | 14:27 |
| opengeekv2 | i'll find it don't worry | 14:28 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: so battery charging is usermode? | 14:28 |
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| Stskeeps | anyway. i've been knee deep in this firmware stuff for quite a while, no, 100% open firmware isn't going to happen that easily, 95% where 5% is wifi firmware, bluetooth firmware, hw interfacing (battery), is just as bad as on a typical ubuntu | 14:28 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:29 |
| luke-jr | I don't use Ubuntu. | 14:29 |
| hell | i think, there are a lot of hardware, reventing explode, zeners, r somethng like this. | 14:29 |
| luke-jr | I use Gentoo with a draconian ACCEPT_LICENSE value | 14:29 |
| hell | *preventing | 14:29 |
| Stskeeps | what we can -hope- for, is the permission to redistribute that part | 14:29 |
| aquatix | luke-jr: you use wifi? | 14:29 |
| luke-jr | aquatix: on my laptop, ath5k | 14:29 |
| luke-jr | actually, replacement laptop has some annoying intel wifi | 14:29 |
| aquatix | does that use a firmware blob? | 14:29 |
| wazd | opengeekv2: ok, I saw your mockups | 14:29 |
| luke-jr | aquatix: I already said firmware aside. ;) | 14:30 |
| Stskeeps | hypocrite ;) | 14:30 |
| luke-jr | not at all | 14:30 |
| opengeekv2 | wazd: and what do you thing about it | 14:30 |
| opengeekv2 | ? | 14:30 |
| luke-jr | the hardware level just is not winnable yet | 14:30 |
| Stskeeps | the nokia stuff is just as much firmware as the rest, so :P | 14:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, at the end of the day, to make progress you have to make concessions. | 14:30 |
| wazd | opengeekv2: first of all you can move dropdown menu to the left | 14:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, license zealotry tends, mostly, to drive people away and halt any possible progress. | 14:30 |
| wazd | opengeekv2: so right border of menu will match right order of icon | 14:30 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: kernel modules are not firmware/hardware, and in the case of Linux, illegal if not GPL compatible | 14:31 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: we have open wifi now. | 14:31 |
| luke-jr | I'm more concerned if Nokia violates the copyrights on Linux, than if they have "trade sekrets" and patents. | 14:31 |
| lcuk | -illegal | 14:31 |
| opengeekv2 | oh i dont understand | 14:31 |
| opengeekv2 | my english is awful | 14:31 |
| lcuk | opengeekv2, i saw your mockups as well :) happy to see you are looking beyond the first couple of items | 14:32 |
| Stskeeps | neat, stlc45xx development is going on still | 14:32 |
| wazd | opengeekv2: And I like horizonal oriented menu idea | 14:32 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: yes, i saw that | 14:32 |
| wazd | opengeekv2: with no title :) | 14:32 |
| luke-jr | so this battery crap-- what exactly is it? | 14:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, Nokia isn't violating any copyrights. | 14:33 |
| opengeekv2 | why tittle annoies you? | 14:33 |
| luke-jr | is it a kernel module, so someone can sue Nokia over it? | 14:33 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: it's a binary running in userspace speaking to the tahvo and retu chips | 14:33 |
| luke-jr | meh | 14:33 |
| lcuk | lol, opengeekv2 don't mention titles or microsoft around wazd | 14:33 |
| lcuk | hes "touchy" | 14:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | luke-jr, stop being silly. | 14:33 |
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| wazd | opengeekv2: not sure if it's easier to navigate that way though | 14:33 |
| hell | GeneralAntilles: what 'BS' does mean? | 14:33 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: over perfectly sane and open kernel interfaces :) | 14:33 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: can it be sandboxed? :/ | 14:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | hell, bullshit. | 14:33 |
| wazd | opengeekv2: cause title is useless. forget bout it for god sake) | 14:33 |
| hell | . | 14:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | hell, most tablet users do not use rootsh. | 14:34 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: no clue. i'm personally not touching BME as i don't want to blow up my tablet :) | 14:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | hell, Nokia's sold close to or over a million tablets. | 14:34 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: and i'm perfectly fine with one or two binary blobs in my system | 14:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | hell, rootsh has 15,000 downloads http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/rootsh/ | 14:34 |
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| wazd | opengeekv2: the bad thing bout horizonal menu is scrilling | 14:34 |
| lcuk | heh GeneralAntilles how do you manage to charge your 499282 tablets? | 14:34 |
| hell | GeneralAntilles: they just reboot it, when pppd hangs up | 14:34 |
| Stskeeps | because it is better than having a completely locked down system like let's say, t-mobile G1 | 14:34 |
| wazd | scrolling* | 14:34 |
| opengeekv2 | why | 14:35 |
| opengeekv2 | ? | 14:35 |
| Stskeeps | where you have to pay friggen 300$ and 25$ to get a open version | 14:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, I've got a Mr. Fussion. | 14:35 |
| glass | Stskeeps: and a shitload for shippng | 14:35 |
| lcuk | :wazd, technically whats wrong with horiz scrolling | 14:35 |
| glass | Stskeeps: i suspect g1's price is around 600 real money | 14:35 |
| lcuk | canola does it in its picture viewer to great effect | 14:35 |
| hell | GeneralAntilles: so, as i understand, if you switch to rd mode, no rootsh needed. | 14:35 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: port Linux to it? | 14:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | hell, or modify the gainroot script. | 14:36 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, g1 is locked down? i thought it was a linux device? | 14:36 |
| ShadowJK | 600 would put it in similar place as Nokia N95/N96's and iPhone's "real money" price | 14:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | hell, but I'm not sure how that's relevant to your claim that most tablet users are using rootsh. | 14:36 |
| wazd | lcuk, opengeekv2: you can't fit much items in a row | 14:36 |
| glass | lcuk: linux doesn't meant not locked down | 14:36 |
| lcuk | or is this one of those fake linux devices | 14:36 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: G1 firmware is locked unless you get a developer key and a special version of it | 14:36 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: tivo, as an example.. | 14:36 |
| lcuk | wazd, think outside the box :) | 14:36 |
| glass | lcuk: plenty of motos run linux underneath, totally locked from the user, too | 14:36 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: JTAG? | 14:36 |
| wazd | lcuk, opengeekv2: so you'll always have to scroll | 14:36 |
| aquatix | lcuk: linux is just deep down in there | 14:36 |
| lcuk | also - PLEASE consider rotation in mer | 14:36 |
| lcuk | i dont want to always be stuck in landscape | 14:36 |
| hell | GeneralAntilles: yeah, most of Linux users, i think, yes. | 14:36 |
| aquatix | lcuk: android only provides that java-like environment | 14:37 |
| AndrewFBlack | Hello | 14:37 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: and it's android, the supposedly very open firmware | 14:37 |
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| aquatix | hey AndrewFBlack | 14:37 |
| opengeekv2 | what do yoi mean with scroll? | 14:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | hell, all tablet users are Linux users, arguably. | 14:37 |
| wazd | lcuk: in portrait mode it's even worse | 14:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | hell, still don't see your point. | 14:37 |
| hell | so, it's interesting question for vote. | 14:37 |
| slonopotamus | rotation... heh... look at squeak. they rotate windows for arbitrary angle | 14:37 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: JTAG? | 14:37 |
| wazd | opengeekv2: try to fit in a row Maemo Mapper menu | 14:37 |
| lcuk | wazd, slonopotamus :) | 14:37 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: find a jtag on your g1, sure :P | 14:37 |
| lcuk | -wazd | 14:37 |
| opengeekv2 | let me see | 14:37 |
| Stskeeps | i'm off. | 14:37 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: dunno what a G1 is :þ | 14:38 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: .. | 14:38 |
| luke-jr | my experience porting Linux is with cable modems | 14:38 |
| luke-jr | :þ | 14:38 |
| * lcuk wants a fast smalltalk/squeek/hypercard implementation on device | 14:38 | |
| Stskeeps | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Google_phone | 14:38 |
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| aquatix | luke-jr: G1 is the google android phone by HTC | 14:38 |
| opengeekv2 | iseee | 14:38 |
| slonopotamus | http://www.user.fh-stralsund.de/~twenge/Medien_3/squeak/Screen_Shots/Basic/SqRules.gif | 14:38 |
| slonopotamus | that IS rotation :) | 14:38 |
| glass | that they sell as the devphone too, the devphone is unlocked but like said, not really cheap | 14:38 |
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| lcuk | do you do actual dev on the devphone? | 14:39 |
| lcuk | -all that space from leaning my jacket potato box on the keyboard | 14:39 |
| glass | lcuk: me? no, but it's the unlocked version of g1 | 14:39 |
| hell | GeneralAntilles: i'm novice in maemo and i'm missing some of history moments, so unprotected root is one of they. | 14:39 |
| opengeekv2 | but have you sen tha the menu apearing in the middle is not a good thing no? | 14:40 |
| lcuk | glass cant you just install apps onto it developed in the emulator ? like we do with scratchbox | 14:40 |
| glass | lcuk: yea sure, but.. android apps run in a vm | 14:40 |
| glass | lcuk: javalike vm, so it's not really different to say a sidekick for the developer | 14:40 |
| lcuk | yeah | 14:40 |
| glass | lcuk: or a blackberry, so the openness is just empty words from google | 14:40 |
| lcuk | so why do you explicitely need a dev version | 14:41 |
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| wazd | opengeekv2: you can move initial menu to the left, so it's right border will align to button's right border | 14:41 |
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| luke-jr | hm | 14:41 |
| luke-jr | is the dev version actually Free? | 14:41 |
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| lcuk | as in beer | 14:41 |
| glass | luke-jr: free as in you end up paying 500-700$ for it | 14:41 |
| lcuk | very very expensive beer | 14:41 |
| luke-jr | not gratis, Free | 14:41 |
| opengeekv2 | yes | 14:41 |
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| opengeekv2 | i like it | 14:41 |
| glass | not really Free either | 14:41 |
| lcuk | william wallis free | 14:41 |
| glass | you need to join googles dev program to get it | 14:42 |
| glass | and that involves a contract or two with them, thats not Free | 14:42 |
| Stskeeps | http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/pymer.png <- Python Hildon + Python OSSO on Mer. | 14:42 |
| Stskeeps | (armel version is building as we speak) | 14:42 |
| lcuk | glass, but once you have it can you redistribute it ala gpl | 14:42 |
| lcuk | or is the ide not gpl? | 14:42 |
| luke-jr | hmmmm | 14:42 |
| aquatix | Stskeeps: whoa, scary, i read `paris hilton' instead of `python hildon' | 14:42 |
| glass | lcuk: well, i dunno what legal foo they got, but that australian dude who was going to put out an android phone got silenced pretty well by google | 14:42 |
| Stskeeps | aquatix: you've been watching too much TV | 14:43 |
| aquatix | Stskeeps: no, too much interwebs | 14:43 |
| luke-jr | G1 sounds like a good legal case for the GPL ☺ | 14:43 |
| opengeekv2 | wazd: but i it is vertical ter is no much rpoblem | 14:43 |
| glass | lcuk: and the google parts, like maps and stuff like that is google properiaty and you'd need licenses from google to include it | 14:43 |
| lcuk | glass, dunno i do all my code on n8x0 for now | 14:43 |
| aquatix | luke-jr: bring it | 14:43 |
| luke-jr | in theory, it could probably be argued the signing key is source code | 14:43 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: i'm willing to bet it's GPLv2 all the way. | 14:43 |
| Stskeeps | busybox, linux | 14:43 |
| aquatix | yeah | 14:43 |
| lcuk | glass, the map imagery is different to source code | 14:43 |
| glass | lcuk: ..not just the imagery | 14:44 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: that link suggests Apache license for a lot | 14:44 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: and suing Google for license problems when they just open sourced a friggen mobile OS.. | 14:44 |
| Macer | ok.. teh mother having sex with the son in boston legal was disturbing | 14:44 |
| glass | lcuk: point being google is keeping a very tight leash on it despite they launched it as 'open' | 14:44 |
| Stskeeps | that's bad press and just shows people how gnubieish the gpl people really are | 14:44 |
| Stskeeps | bbl | 14:44 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: open source is irrelevant if you can't even modify it | 14:45 |
| glass | lcuk: like, i'm still waiting for a real non google non oper phone to appear, for the platform to be intresting for me | 14:45 |
| Stskeeps | luke-jr: open source has nothing to do with that | 14:45 |
| lcuk | glass moko | 14:45 |
| Stskeeps | open source has to deal with the ability to view what your computer is doing | 14:45 |
| luke-jr | I use the word 'Free' instead of 'open' for a reason | 14:45 |
| glass | lcuk: moko is irrelevant for commercial dev.. | 14:45 |
| opengeekv2 | wazd: this way |Route Track Maps| Show Auto-Center Full Screen GPS .... (two arrows down and make the rest of the menu apperaring | 14:45 |
| lcuk | is the open moko not open? | 14:45 |
| luke-jr | Stskeeps: Free software is about having the freedom to do what you like with your software. | 14:45 |
| lcuk | glass, but its an open phone | 14:46 |
| glass | lcuk: i don't want an open phone, i want a phone with open apis and sw distribution.. | 14:46 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Goddamnit, Stskeeps, when do I get a time machine so I can warp ahead 6 months? :( | 14:46 |
| glass | lcuk: i'd love to develope for android if it got relevant and this way it'll never get to that since google isn't devs release the phones | 14:47 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: it's called a coma | 14:47 |
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| lcuk | glass, how lopng have you been waiting? | 14:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, did you ever see that episode of South Park? ;) | 14:47 |
| Stskeeps | yes, of course :P | 14:47 |
| glass | lcuk: waiting? i'm not waiting per se, that would be stupid.. i'm a hired mobile dev guy | 14:47 |
| Macer | i had no idea | 14:47 |
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| ShadowJK | re bme, I wonder if without it you only lose the reporting, or if the bme daemon actually controls things (i.e. without it -> boom) | 14:48 |
| hell | GeneralAntilles: so, what you would do in summer?) Anti-crisis deal, "no food, no money, jump to summer right now"?) | 14:48 |
| Macer | the southpark episode about scientology are amazing | 14:48 |
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| lcuk | ok, so you are already used to working in the garden the target provides, be it iphone,android,etc | 14:48 |
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| lcuk | and as a commercial dev whats wrong with ponying up for the dev license? | 14:48 |
| glass | lcuk: yeah, but android isn't relevant because nobody i know can even buy a consumer android phone | 14:48 |
| X-Fade | ShadowJK: bme actually directs the current to the battery.. | 14:48 |
| ShadowJK | oh boom without it then :-) | 14:49 |
| glass | lcuk: so when they actually, IF they actually, get the phones i can jump on the train | 14:49 |
| Macer | not amazing.. but accurate | 14:49 |
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| GeneralAntilles | ShadowJK, no, it just doesn't charge. | 14:49 |
| Macer | heh.. lke.. southpark seriously was telling the truth about scientology when they made that episode | 14:49 |
| glass | lcuk: but now it looks like google is just hindering development from guys who would like to release such phones | 14:49 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Macer, Scientology is pure evil. | 14:49 |
| ShadowJK | GeneralAntilles, if it also handles the cutoff then you could overdischarge battery beyond the point at which it becomes unstable though? | 14:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | ShadowJK, it charges it. Without it, no current goes to the battery. | 14:50 |
| glass | lcuk: i'm not a big fan of google corporate culture as you can probably see :D | 14:50 |
| ShadowJK | overdischarge, not overcharge | 14:50 |
| Macer | GeneralAntilles: i had no idea that south park was serious though | 14:50 |
| Macer | when they had the "THIS IS WHAT SCIENTOLOGISTS BELIEVE" | 14:50 |
| X-Fade | ShadowJK: Overdischarge won't give fire, it will just kill the lipo. | 14:50 |
| glass | Macer: south park is very serious.. the jokes just hide that from people who don't pay attention | 14:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Macer, yeah, they're a terrifying bunch. | 14:51 |
| Macer | well.. i never really researched scientology that much | 14:51 |
| Macer | and figured they couldn't be serious | 14:51 |
| glass | Macer: and family guy actually teaches traditional family values, believe it or not | 14:51 |
| Macer | it was too far fetched :) | 14:51 |
| X-Fade | ShadowJK: But indeed bme shuts the tablet down when the battery voltage gets too low. | 14:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Macer, they OWN Clearwater, FL. | 14:51 |
| ShadowJK | right | 14:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Macer, the entire Clearwater PD is on their payroll. | 14:52 |
| Macer | but no shit... scientologists really believe in an ancient alien war | 14:52 |
| ShadowJK | X-Fade, it might give fire if you try to charge it again after too deep discharge, but you'd hope bme would refuse to charge in that case :) | 14:52 |
| AndrewFBlack | is it bad that after I saw the new themes the LCARs guys put out I didn't want to work on mine any more lol | 14:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Off-duty cops stand gard outside their HQ in uniform. | 14:52 |
| Macer | and alien souls :) haha | 14:52 |
| StsN800 | AndrewFBlack, intimidated eh? | 14:52 |
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| X-Fade | ShadowJK: The cell itself won't accept the charge anymore.. | 14:52 |
| AndrewFBlack | Stskeeps, Very much so | 14:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | AndrewFBlack, hehe, I was talking to Ian last night. They do know their stuff. | 14:52 |
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| StsN800 | AndrewFBlack, i think you should continue though | 14:53 |
| Macer | GeneralAntilles: i have never met an actual scientologist | 14:53 |
| lcuk | thats because if you meet one they have to eat you | 14:53 |
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| Macer | haha | 14:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Macer, I grew up right near the heart of Scientology. | 14:53 |
| Macer | everything was true in south park though | 14:53 |
| Macer | the whole hook the machine up to the brain .. etc | 14:54 |
| AndrewFBlack | GeneralAntilles, Using Hildon Tools blows anything I can do out the water, I'm not going to stop just disencouraged me a little | 14:54 |
| Macer | i seriously thought that southpark was exagerating or just being too literal | 14:54 |
| aquatix | Macer: the scary part is, they didn't have to | 14:54 |
| glass | Macer: well.. you know why scientologists don't want public info.. because it would sound too ridiculous | 14:54 |
| StsN800 | AndrewFBlack, its fairly easyto use those tools though | 14:55 |
| Macer | aquatix: yeah hahaha | 14:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Macer, the e-meter is a triumph of engineering. http://www.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/Secrets/E-Meter/ | 14:55 |
| AndrewFBlack | Stskeeps, I think this is just going to push me to get off my lazy butt and learn the real way to do themes not the easy way, don't get me wrong I love theme maker but it can only take me so far | 14:55 |
| Macer | now i want to read the l ron collection | 14:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | AndrewFBlack, throw in with the synthesize.us lot | 14:56 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Elron Hubbard? ;) | 14:56 |
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| Macer | is it elron? | 14:56 |
| Macer | thought it was L. Ron | 14:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | It is. | 14:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Bad joke. ;) | 14:56 |
| lcuk | pull up, pull up, i can't elron's stuck in the wing again | 14:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's amazing how a mediocre science fiction writer turned into the leader of the world's most accepted cult. | 14:57 |
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| lcuk | most accepted cult == apple | 14:57 |
| lcuk | scientology is pisscakes by comparison | 14:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, ailerons don't control pitch. :P | 14:58 |
| AndrewFBlack | GeneralAntilles, I asked one of the guys that was on IRC about working with theme on some themes but never got a reply back. | 14:58 |
| aquatix | lcuk: except that scientology is influential behind the screens | 14:58 |
| aquatix | i wonder how much influence tom cruise and friends have | 14:58 |
| lcuk | so is apple, dont they own a bit of disney :P | 14:58 |
| aquatix | lcuk: pixar? | 14:58 |
| lcuk | ok close enough, its behind the screens :P | 14:59 |
| aquatix | ghehe | 14:59 |
| * lcuk gives GeneralAntilles a masonic handshake | 14:59 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 15:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | At least the Masons aren't totally out of their minds. | 15:00 |
| aquatix | :) | 15:00 |
| lcuk | ... | 15:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | They do community service and whatnot. | 15:00 |
| lcuk | what do you think tom cruise does? | 15:00 |
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| StsN800 | talkshows? | 15:01 |
| lcuk | it was a community service to screw katie holmes every day | 15:01 |
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| aquatix | lcuk: lol | 15:02 |
| jaska | itd be a community service for him to commit seppuku | 15:02 |
| aquatix | well, i suspect him lobbying in politics | 15:02 |
| lcuk | :S jaska | 15:02 |
| aquatix | jaska: *g* | 15:02 |
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| RST38h | All right. What happened while I was away? | 15:02 |
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| lcuk | we voted you off the island | 15:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | ^ | 15:03 |
| aquatix | RST38h: the world spun a few degrees | 15:03 |
| aquatix | and that | 15:03 |
| RST38h | War? Famine? Can I hope for an outbreak of bubonic plague? | 15:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | We also voted you out of the house. | 15:03 |
| RST38h | aquatix: boring | 15:03 |
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| lcuk | you are the weakest link, goodbye | 15:03 |
| StsN800 | RST38h, bush's taking a third term | 15:03 |
| lcuk | noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo | 15:03 |
| aquatix | RST38h: ah, and the singularity transferred us to a virtual world, but that's not really worth a news item | 15:03 |
| lcuk | RST38h, what were u doing anyway, and have you washed your hands | 15:04 |
| RST38h | Oh, YESSS! I knew I could count on little buggers: | 15:04 |
| RST38h | http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/article2146286.ece | 15:04 |
| wazd | damn, now that's a problem | 15:05 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Before or after whatever I was doing? | 15:05 |
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| lcuk | lol both | 15:05 |
| * lcuk isnt really interested but you asked us | 15:05 | |
| wazd | fucking app menu, I hate you | 15:05 |
| aquatix | wazd: rest assured | 15:06 |
| aquatix | it hates you too | 15:06 |
| lcuk | is that a new input method? | 15:06 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: no, lunch. what did you think it was? | 15:06 |
| * aquatix needs a double espresso | 15:06 | |
| aquatix | brb | 15:06 |
| lcuk | RST38h, i dunno when you vanished | 15:06 |
| lcuk | anyway, my turn to go | 15:07 |
| lcuk | back alter folks | 15:07 |
| RST38h | Meanwhile: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/newstopics/howaboutthat/4283328/Pedigree-dogs-are-becoming-stupid-as-we-breed-them-for-looks-not-brains.html | 15:07 |
| RST38h | (not only the dogs, right? ;)) | 15:07 |
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| aquatix | RST38h: still talking about that paris hilton person? | 15:10 |
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| RST38h | aquatix: ....mirror mirror on the wall... | 15:13 |
| aquatix | who's the dumbest of all? | 15:13 |
| * RST38h assumes a non-involved look | 15:14 | |
| RST38h | aquatix: you skipped "us" =) | 15:14 |
| * aquatix isn't too good looking thankfully ;) | 15:14 | |
| aquatix | ghehe | 15:14 |
| aquatix | RST38h: well, we're JaBoG right? (just a bunch of geeks) | 15:14 |
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| aquatix | i think there are not many supermodels in here | 15:15 |
| * aquatix shuts up | 15:15 | |
| * aquatix feels some people staring at him | 15:16 | |
| RST38h | aquatix: but for EU/US overally, the trends look worse =) | 15:16 |
| b-man|grogy | hehe | 15:16 |
| aquatix | RST38h: :) | 15:17 |
| * aquatix makes note to self not to breed too good looking kids | 15:17 | |
| jaska | with my genes generating good looking ones would be pretty hard :) | 15:18 |
| wazd | how about that: http://s44.radikal.ru/i103/0901/7e/496b338d836e.png | 15:18 |
| aquatix | as an upside, that might mean they're more likely to be involved in IT too | 15:18 |
| aquatix | jaska: :) | 15:18 |
| aquatix | wazd: interesting, blut a tad cluttery | 15:18 |
| RST38h | wazd: thick top/bottom bars on the menus are somewhat ugly | 15:18 |
| aquatix | where's that first `spike' from, just right of the mer logo? | 15:19 |
| RST38h | wazd: and the menu popping up from the center is totally wrong looking | 15:19 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, right now me're discussing more UX than detailed design :) | 15:19 |
| RST38h | wazd: I suggest you keep the menu icon at the far left and move task icons to the right - even if they are not separated from the status icons, it should be ok | 15:20 |
| aquatix | imho, it's better to have the menu pop up from somewhere quite left | 15:20 |
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| aquatix | wazd: and maybe remove that spiky-looking seperator, it adds to the clutter | 15:20 |
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| aquatix | without it it looks better i think | 15:20 |
| aquatix | replace it with the menu? | 15:20 |
| aquatix | then you're done | 15:21 |
| aquatix | it think it will look rather nice then | 15:21 |
| * wazd is gonna kill that b**ch in stilletos from above | 15:23 | |
| AStorm | hello | 15:23 |
| aquatix | wazd: ah, always fun those people... | 15:23 |
| AStorm | do we have some neat fast implementation of *universal* hash tables for C++ | 15:23 |
| AStorm | built for maemo? | 15:23 |
| AStorm | esp. for very large tables | 15:23 |
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| RST38h | wazd: How? Those heels are deadly! | 15:26 |
| AStorm | or any other structure for quick bit check | 15:26 |
| aquatix | RST38h: for her ankels, yes | 15:26 |
| AStorm | (existence) | 15:26 |
| AStorm | addition doesn't have to be fast | 15:26 |
| aquatix | AStorm: maybe a map? | 15:28 |
| AStorm | yes, which is a hash table | 15:28 |
| AStorm | must be O(1) check | 15:28 |
| aquatix | yeah | 15:28 |
| AStorm | or amortized O(1) | 15:28 |
| RST38h | Astorm: bitmap | 15:28 |
| aquatix | isn't it in stl? | 15:28 |
| aquatix | std::map or something | 15:28 |
| * RST38h cringes at the mention of stl | 15:28 | |
| AStorm | RST38h: yes, but a very large number of values | 15:28 |
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| RST38h | AStorm: hash then | 15:28 |
| AStorm | aquatix: default std::map uses binary tree - O(log n) | 15:29 |
| AStorm | RST38h: yes, any lib with one? | 15:29 |
| aquatix | AStorm: ah :( | 15:29 |
| RST38h | AStorm: No. Do you need a lib? | 15:29 |
| wazd | RST38h: I have overcoming firepower :) perforator >:D | 15:29 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Start from the ceiling and up! | 15:29 |
| aquatix | wazd: wanna borrow my Nerf gun? | 15:29 |
| RST38h | AStorm: it is a trivial thing to write really | 15:30 |
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| Jaffa | wazd: It's worth bearing in mind that the Fremantle menus aren't going to look like that. | 15:32 |
| Jaffa | (probably) | 15:32 |
| AStorm | RST38h: but not trivial to write fast | 15:32 |
| AStorm | and Google has done so | 15:32 |
| RST38h | AStorm: Trivial to write fast too | 15:32 |
| AStorm | yeah right | 15:32 |
| AStorm | for millions of records | 15:33 |
| RST38h | AStorm: Do you wish to have malloc() there or not? | 15:33 |
| AStorm | dynamic would be best, yup | 15:33 |
| AStorm | as I don't know the actual amount of data | 15:33 |
| RST38h | AStorm: No, when you add an item, is malloc ok? | 15:33 |
| AStorm | for static, each table would have to be like, at least 65k records | 15:33 |
| AStorm | if it's avoidable, then... better to lose it | 15:34 |
| RST38h | Ok, then go with this: | 15:34 |
| AStorm | are you trying to do it with a bloom filter? | 15:34 |
| RST38h | No. I am doing it stupidly. | 15:34 |
| AStorm | I tried one myself and had too many false positives - slow | 15:34 |
| AStorm | hm? | 15:34 |
| RST38h | But fast enough | 15:34 |
| RST38h | For static hash: 1. statically define int Hash[MAX_SIZE] | 15:35 |
| AStorm | yeah, except... I then need a proper hash function | 15:35 |
| RST38h | 2. Define int HashFunc(Data) | 15:35 |
| AStorm | yes, note, MAX_SIZE would be huge | 15:35 |
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| RST38h | Not necessarily | 15:35 |
| AStorm | or at least there would be many tables | 15:35 |
| Stskeeps | lmoura: what was the motivation for using .pyo instead of .pyc in the pymaemo bindings for python-osso btw? | 15:36 |
| RST38h | 3. Add: for(J=HashFunc(Data);J<MAX_SIZE && Hash[J];++J) if(Hash[J]==Data break; | 15:36 |
| AStorm | the trick is that it's a hash from 2 integers and a boolena | 15:37 |
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| AStorm | so, I need to design one for this | 15:37 |
| AStorm | very fast too | 15:37 |
| AStorm | and not too colliding | 15:37 |
| RST38h | continued: if(J>=MAX_SIZE) fucked_up(); else if(Hash[J]) exists(); else Hash[J]=Data; | 15:37 |
| AStorm | eh, no, that won't work | 15:37 |
| RST38h | It will | 15:37 |
| AStorm | I might have collisions | 15:37 |
| AStorm | would have to make Hash[J] a list | 15:38 |
| RST38h | It is ok, it will place them to the next available spot | 15:38 |
| RST38h | no need to make it a list | 15:38 |
| lmoura | Stskeeps, in the first versions (still current), we bytecompiled the modules using -OO in order to strip doctstrings and save space | 15:38 |
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| lmoura | specially in 770 | 15:38 |
| AStorm | RST38h: note, the hash table will be heavily filled | 15:38 |
| AStorm | so, open addressing will be *slow* | 15:38 |
| AStorm | heavily as in I expect 80% load | 15:39 |
| RST38h | AStorm: if it will be heavily filled, screw hash, go with bitmap | 15:39 |
| Stskeeps | lmoura: alright, and you needed to make special support in python for importing .pyos? (i saw a patch) | 15:39 |
| AStorm | RST38h: sure | 15:39 |
| lmoura | Stskeeps, currently we are working to get closer to the debian polices | 15:39 |
| RST38h | AStorm: one million records will require int Bitmap[32768] | 15:39 |
| Stskeeps | lmoura: alright, sounds good - i've been adapting the bindings to Mer, so | 15:39 |
| wazd | So you think this is better? http://s41.radikal.ru/i092/0901/fc/0591fe2f56d8.png | 15:39 |
| RST38h | AStorm: it is O(1) and simply like wood | 15:40 |
| lmoura | Stskeeps, yeah, I saw that. It was something related to importing files inside a .zip | 15:40 |
| Stskeeps | lmoura: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/pymer.png :) | 15:40 |
| RST38h | simple | 15:40 |
| aquatix | wazd: imho, yes | 15:40 |
| AStorm | RST38h: so, how would I use a bitmap? | 15:40 |
| RST38h | wazd: yea | 15:40 |
| AStorm | (note - 3 values -> n bit hash?) | 15:40 |
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| Stskeeps | lmoura: alright, thanks for your answers :) | 15:41 |
| RST38h | AStorm: Add: Bitmap[hashFunc(Data)>>5]|=1<<(HashFunc(Data)&0x1F) | 15:41 |
| SaBer | Is there a rather universal way to find out the location of a maemo device? | 15:41 |
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| AStorm | 32+32+1 bits, uhm | 15:41 |
| RST38h | AStorm: Has: return(!!Bitmap[hashFunc(Data)>>5]&(1<<(HashFunc(Data)&0x1F))); | 15:41 |
| lmoura | Stskeeps, no problems :) | 15:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | SaBer, gpsd? | 15:41 |
| AStorm | hmm, wait wait | 15:41 |
| AStorm | won't that collide? | 15:41 |
| RST38h | AStorm: No | 15:42 |
| lcuk | any hash will collide, choose a reasonable algo | 15:42 |
| RST38h | AStorm: because the number of entries in your bitmap will corresond to the maximum amount of data | 15:42 |
| RST38h | AStorm: So, your hasfunc() will be an identity function and it will never collide | 15:42 |
| aquatix | why even use a hash then? | 15:42 |
| aquatix | ah | 15:42 |
| RST38h | aquatix: If you have very few filled values then you should use hash to save space | 15:42 |
| AStorm | RST38h: 2**65 bits... quite many | 15:42 |
| RST38h | aquatix: but AStorm says a lot of his values are actually filled | 15:43 |
| aquatix | AStorm: lol | 15:43 |
| aquatix | RST38h: myeah | 15:43 |
| RST38h | AStorm: Are you going to have this many? | 15:43 |
| SaBer | GeneralAntilles: I guess it's the best you can get. I'm porting an application from symbian, which checks the location from the country code. This will not of course work with a maemo device, as it has no phone... | 15:43 |
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| AStorm | RST38h: hmm, let me think | 15:43 |
| AStorm | ah, I made a mistake too | 15:44 |
| AStorm | it's actually 128 + 8 + 2 bits of data | 15:44 |
| AStorm | (5 ints, 1 byte, 2 bools) | 15:44 |
| AStorm | I expect lowish values in 2 of the ints, so these could be converted to bytes too I guess | 15:45 |
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| aquatix | erm, you have 25.6 bit ints? | 15:45 |
| AStorm | then, it would be 6bytes, 2 bits | 15:45 |
| AStorm | aquatix: maybe miscalced, whatever | 15:46 |
| aquatix | :) | 15:46 |
| AStorm | 5bytes, 2 bools hmm | 15:46 |
| AStorm | that gives 42 bits | 15:46 |
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| AStorm | plausible | 15:47 |
| lcuk | AStorm, is this still your hash problem from a few days ago? | 15:47 |
| AStorm | I can build a perfect bloom filter then | 15:47 |
| * lcuk just ended up using md5 for something | 15:47 | |
| AStorm | lcuk: yes | 15:47 |
| AStorm | md5 is far too slow | 15:47 |
| AStorm | I tried that earlier | 15:47 |
| AStorm | even Python fast hashing is too slow | 15:47 |
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| aquatix | crc? :) | 15:47 |
| lcuk | bloom filters are good if you choose the right info and dont have to rebuild it | 15:47 |
| AStorm | aquatix: slower than bloom | 15:48 |
| aquatix | ah, right | 15:48 |
| AStorm | lcuk: no rebuilds :) | 15:48 |
| lcuk | since each bloom requires 32 or 64 or however many algo passes to create the item itself it takes time | 15:48 |
| lcuk | 1 rebuild per key you try to lookup | 15:48 |
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| AStorm | I don't have to create the item or even grab it really... | 15:48 |
| AStorm | just check for existence | 15:48 |
| AStorm | ah, no, I need to link it to an integer | 15:48 |
| AStorm | (meh weight ;P ) | 15:49 |
| lcuk | the bloom filter is the ORed results of running multiple different algos on your key isnt it? | 15:49 |
| AStorm | the problem is that I can't index 42-bit directly | 15:49 |
| lcuk | binary trees? | 15:50 |
| AStorm | too slow, tried it already | 15:50 |
| AStorm | really needs O(1) | 15:50 |
| AStorm | for existence check | 15:50 |
| lcuk | i have a dictionary class in liqbase (internal build for now) which for any string given gives me a single 32bit wordscore | 15:50 |
| AStorm | or close to O(1) | 15:50 |
| AStorm | I'll write a chained table then I think | 15:51 |
| lcuk | building a wordscore takes longer, but then for every single comparison its simply a 32bit equivilence check | 15:51 |
| AStorm | uhm, I can't have 2**42 ints... | 15:51 |
| lcuk | so build once and check against potentially hundreds of other scores | 15:51 |
| AStorm | far too much space | 15:51 |
| AStorm | yes, it's close to that | 15:52 |
| hell | so, maybe don't understand something, why password, that sudo ask's is always incorrect? | 15:52 |
| AStorm | actually, what I use in Python | 15:52 |
| AStorm | but that's too slow for some reason | 15:52 |
| hell | sudo does not say to me, that commend is not in sudoers, or user is not in, but incorrect assword | 15:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | hell, there is no password. | 15:52 |
| AStorm | hell: edit /etc/sudoers | 15:52 |
| AStorm | and there's no root pass by default I guess | 15:53 |
| hell | i set it to default 'rootme' | 15:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | AStorm, sudser is in Extras | 15:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | user has no password. | 15:53 |
| AStorm | mhm | 15:53 |
| AStorm | lcuk: so, any idea? existence check must be fast, grabbing that weight actually too | 15:53 |
| hell | GeneralAntilles: i only need to run /bin/bash, with no NOPASSWORD option. | 15:54 |
| Stskeeps | sudoers.d | 15:54 |
| AStorm | lcuk: at best I might limit weights to bytes, but it's... bad | 15:54 |
| lcuk | astorm, i dunno if i do it right or wrong, i work entirely on strings and know for a complete object model i cannot continue to use strcmp() | 15:54 |
| AStorm | lcuk: yeah, for that, hash table will be fast enough | 15:55 |
| lcuk | so i built a chartree and assign a score to each unique string | 15:55 |
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| hell | Stskeeps: ok, i already add line to /etc/sudoers | 15:55 |
| AStorm | I need a mapping these values -> weight and O(1) | 15:55 |
| lcuk | astorm, hash table wont work - that requires allocation per item with children - theres THOUSANDS of children | 15:55 |
| AStorm | also, don't have petabytes of ram | 15:55 |
| AStorm | hm, then you use a trie | 15:56 |
| lcuk | thousands with children ^ | 15:56 |
| hell | but on my desktop, for example, it work, or give another errors that 'incorrect password' | 15:56 |
| lcuk | yes (looking on wikipedia) | 15:56 |
| AStorm | I can't use a trie - too slow lookups | 15:56 |
| aquatix | *tree | 15:57 |
| lcuk | thats basically the tree, each leaf has a score assigned to it which is unique and thats what i (aim to) use for the lookups | 15:57 |
| AStorm | aquatix: no, trie, it's a special kind of tree | 15:57 |
| aquatix | oh, a triary tree? | 15:57 |
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| * aquatix googles | 15:57 | |
| AStorm | aquatix: no, use the wikipedia or google :) | 15:57 |
| hell | So, it works, if i use 'NOPASSWD:', but i need password to enter) | 15:57 |
| aquatix | ah right | 15:58 |
| AStorm | lcuk: hmmmmmh... I actually only need to access certain *sequential* (with regards to a symbol) part of the weight | 15:58 |
| AStorm | but still need a quick check for existence | 15:58 |
| lcuk | is this hwr still? | 15:58 |
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| AStorm | yes, it is | 15:58 |
| AStorm | need to check for features quickly, then grab weight | 15:58 |
| AStorm | that's all | 15:59 |
| AStorm | there's *a lot* of them | 15:59 |
| hell | GeneralAntilles: have you a success stories with maemo's sudo with root password?) | 15:59 |
| AStorm | as in exponential number | 15:59 |
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| AStorm | although feature space is limited | 15:59 |
| AStorm | (one is 5bytes + 2 bits) | 16:00 |
| lcuk | there always is, i cant remember how i implemented the lookup in vb its a long time ago | 16:00 |
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| lcuk | why such an odd size | 16:00 |
| AStorm | 2 numbers for angle and length | 16:00 |
| AStorm | 1 number for "skips" | 16:00 |
| AStorm | 2 bits for "stop" marker | 16:00 |
| AStorm | (as in invisible feature) | 16:01 |
| AStorm | it's OSB - Orthogonal Sparse Bigram | 16:01 |
| AStorm | thus the huge number of features | 16:01 |
| AStorm | quality of detection is excellent - speed, not so much | 16:01 |
| lcuk | reduce resolution, angle needs only to be in a certain range | 16:02 |
| AStorm | yes | 16:02 |
| AStorm | I did that already, quantized to 5 degrees | 16:02 |
| lcuk | use each property as a branch in the tree | 16:02 |
| AStorm | length is quantized too | 16:02 |
| lcuk | ie level1 == split on just the angle | 16:02 |
| AStorm | hmm, no, I have to check for existence, then grab weight | 16:02 |
| lcuk | then within the angle another subbranch | 16:02 |
| AStorm | if I had to traverse it, it'll probably take too long | 16:03 |
| lcuk | only 2-3 levels | 16:03 |
| lcuk | not long at all and with each step you reduce the space | 16:03 |
| AStorm | hopefully. | 16:03 |
| AStorm | I tried something like that and it didn't work | 16:03 |
| lcuk | i think thats how i did mine with dependencies backwards and forwards - its basically just a compiler | 16:04 |
| AStorm | because memory used was too huge | 16:04 |
| AStorm | I need to compress somehow all these weights | 16:04 |
| AStorm | they're usually fairly low signed numbers | 16:05 |
| lcuk | you can make a single layer tree and recurse and hold cursors to all ongoing viable detection strokes | 16:05 |
| lcuk | and when you reach the end of a chain you know you have a viable character | 16:05 |
| AStorm | eh, I have detection done, thank you, decision tree is crummy | 16:05 |
| AStorm | I just need a quick and space efficient lookup of the weights | 16:05 |
| AStorm | (for a huge feature space) | 16:06 |
| AStorm | I can use microgrooming (that is, dropping features with weights close to 0), but it's just a workaround | 16:06 |
| AStorm | still have to somehow hold a large number of numbers ;P | 16:06 |
| lcuk | you dont have memory to hold large tables though do you? | 16:08 |
| AStorm | not *that* large (2**42 bytes) | 16:08 |
| RST38h | How densely is it filled? | 16:08 |
| AStorm | RST38h: as I said, densely, but usually with similar small values | 16:09 |
| AStorm | where small is like, +/- 40 or so | 16:09 |
| lcuk | you compress and fold it up into a small tree as i described, not a decision tree but a results tree. it will hold the same data you are hoping for but not in a single flat slab of memory | 16:10 |
| AStorm | except it will still take the same amount of memory | 16:10 |
| AStorm | and I don't have that much | 16:10 |
| lcuk | no, it will start off taking up 0 bytes | 16:10 |
| AStorm | I can live with at worst 32 MB | 16:10 |
| lcuk | and only grow as you fill it | 16:11 |
| AStorm | mhm, nice | 16:11 |
| AStorm | like, it will be a small btree? | 16:11 |
| AStorm | with broad levels? | 16:11 |
| lcuk | so you can also cull the worthless brranches and speed up later as well | 16:11 |
| lcuk | yes | 16:11 |
| AStorm | hm, hopefully it will *not* become as full as it currently is | 16:11 |
| lcuk | yes, it shouldnt need to | 16:11 |
| RST38h | AStorm: Are you checking for the presence of a certain value or for a 42bit address beign filled | 16:12 |
| RST38h | ? | 16:12 |
| lcuk | anyway, must dash | 16:12 |
| AStorm | angles are almost fully dispersed | 16:12 |
| AStorm | but lengths are not, there I can save space | 16:12 |
| AStorm | RST38h: yes, and grabbing a number attached to it | 16:12 |
| AStorm | also, stop bit is rarely set | 16:13 |
| AStorm | so, length is usually between 0 and 5, stop bits are usually 0 | 16:15 |
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| AStorm | this btree might actually work | 16:16 |
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| RST38h | Mmm.... | 16:19 |
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| AStorm | and the number of skips is likely to be small too | 16:25 |
| RST38h | This is all not very important for choosing a data structure | 16:25 |
| AStorm | very important really, as size is limited | 16:26 |
| AStorm | and lookup has to be O(1) | 16:26 |
| RST38h | You only want your data structure to tell whether a certain data IS there or ISN'T, right? | 16:26 |
| AStorm | thus, I can use a btree to have a constant time lookup (actually worst case log(6)) | 16:26 |
| AStorm | no | 16:26 |
| Stskeeps | can someone explain me the semantic difference for this? http://wiki.maemo.org/index.php?title=Task%3AMaemo_roadmap%2FFremantle&diff=9891&oldid=9721 | 16:26 |
| AStorm | then I could use a perfect bloom filter | 16:26 |
| RST38h | AStorm: So you want Find() not Has()? | 16:26 |
| AStorm | both | 16:26 |
| RST38h | O, it is Find() then | 16:27 |
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| AStorm | Contains to be fast, Find to be fast too | 16:27 |
| AStorm | and not to eat bazillions of RAM | 16:27 |
| RST38h | Next question: how many DIFFERENT values are there? | 16:27 |
| AStorm | for angles, 360/quant | 16:27 |
| hell | so' as i understand, the one secure root sh is to setup openssh-server, and use ssh to localhost, fantastic. | 16:27 |
| AStorm | for length, hopefully not all that many | 16:27 |
| RST38h | So at most 360 different values? | 16:27 |
| RST38h | How many length values? Approximately? | 16:28 |
| AStorm | for stop, it's a bit | 16:28 |
| AStorm | hmm, mostly low as in < 10 (which is 1 cm) | 16:28 |
| RST38h | Ok | 16:28 |
| AStorm | nah, wait | 16:28 |
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| AStorm | 100 is 1 cm | 16:28 |
| RST38h | Then we are talking about 10*360*2=7200 different values? | 16:28 |
| RST38h | 72000 different values? | 16:28 |
| AStorm | (100*360/5*2)**2 * up to about 10 | 16:29 |
| RST38h | What is the total number? | 16:29 |
| AStorm | 2073600000 | 16:29 |
| AStorm | and at worst each having a byte attached | 16:30 |
| RST38h | the abov3e expression does not evaluate to this total | 16:30 |
| AStorm | it does - checked in Python | 16:30 |
| AStorm | I expect length to be up to 7 bit (127) | 16:30 |
| RST38h | ok | 16:31 |
| RST38h | "up to about 10" means 10? | 16:31 |
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| AStorm | 3344509440L - then | 16:31 |
| AStorm | yes | 16:31 |
| AStorm | quite a few | 16:31 |
| AStorm | each possibly with a small number attached | 16:31 |
| AStorm | long lengths are unlikely | 16:32 |
| AStorm | and that bit is usually 0 | 16:32 |
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| RST38h | Let us use (100*360/5*2) as hash size | 16:32 |
| RST38h | 14400 entries, i.e. 14bit hash keys | 16:32 |
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| AStorm | then I'd need 2 lookups to find the entries | 16:32 |
| AStorm | hmmh | 16:32 |
| AStorm | and weight is attached to "sum" of them | 16:33 |
| AStorm | I need to lookup whole values | 16:33 |
| RST38h | Each hash entry will point to a binary tree | 16:33 |
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| RST38h | or, actually, btree, they are more efficient | 16:33 |
| AStorm | except a pointer is 32-bit | 16:33 |
| AStorm | :P | 16:33 |
| RST38h | no problemo at all | 16:33 |
| RST38h | 2^15 32bit pointers | 16:34 |
| AStorm | 65 KB hash table | 16:34 |
| RST38h | pointing to btrees | 16:34 |
| RST38h | 64kB hash table is nothing by today's standards | 16:34 |
| AStorm | but the weight is attached to 2 such "features" and a number of skips | 16:34 |
| AStorm | not the other way | 16:34 |
| RST38h | ok, so you want crosslinks? | 16:34 |
| AStorm | exactly | 16:34 |
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| AStorm | that's why **2 | 16:35 |
| RST38h | no no | 16:35 |
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| AStorm | any to any | 16:35 |
| RST38h | but it is a different structure :) | 16:35 |
| AStorm | I said it is | 16:35 |
| RST38h | how many crosslinks can point to a single feature? | 16:35 |
| AStorm | many | 16:35 |
| RST38h | how many can point FROm a single feature? | 16:35 |
| AStorm | I expect at least 5 | 16:35 |
| AStorm | from - many too | 16:35 |
| RST38h | ok | 16:35 |
| RST38h | thinking | 16:36 |
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| AStorm | a flat array of bytes, that many, will cost 12 GB, sorry, can't do | 16:37 |
| RST38h | naah | 16:37 |
| AStorm | so I have to save space where I can | 16:37 |
| AStorm | (of 127*360/5*2 -> 127*360/5*2, times 10) | 16:38 |
| AStorm | (times 5 really, blah) | 16:38 |
| AStorm | I missed with a comma, it's closer to 1 GB | 16:38 |
| AStorm | still too huge | 16:38 |
| RST38h | Use k-d tree | 16:39 |
| RST38h | You basically have two dimensions | 16:39 |
| AStorm | 2 + bit | 16:39 |
| RST38h | The first level of btree nodes will divide your space by dimension #1 ("from") | 16:39 |
| RST38h | The second level will divide by dimension #2 ("to") | 16:40 |
| AStorm | how will that save me memory? | 16:40 |
| RST38h | You obviously will not get O(1) though :) | 16:40 |
| AStorm | hm | 16:41 |
| AStorm | as long as it's extremely fast, it will do | 16:41 |
| RST38h | Well, if you were doing it with an array, it would be 2^(14+14)=2^28 | 16:41 |
| RST38h | space-wise | 16:41 |
| AStorm | 2^30 actually | 16:41 |
| RST38h | yea, in bytes | 16:41 |
| AStorm | (2 bits), and * say 8, so, 2^31 | 16:41 |
| AStorm | which is too much | 16:41 |
| lcuk | calculate vector length, do lookup if you get a match, then calculate angle and lookup using that second subtree, you are talking about only a few new vectors per second (its hwr) this is entirely doable | 16:41 |
| RST38h | But doing it with a btree you save space. As for the items themselves, having a 64kB hash is ok | 16:42 |
| AStorm | lcuk: except "few new vectors" isn't all that true, but indeed length is usually small | 16:42 |
| AStorm | I don't need to lookup single items, only whole | 16:42 |
| lcuk | yes, really it is a few small vectors, i work in strokes all day | 16:42 |
| RST38h | AStorm: you will start from a k-d btree then | 16:42 |
| RST38h | AStorm: here is another idea | 16:43 |
| lcuk | or are you weighing every single point of every single stroke ever encountered in realtime? | 16:43 |
| RST38h | AStorm: screw angles/lengths and use rectangles instead | 16:43 |
| AStorm | no can do, rectangle takes more data | 16:43 |
| AStorm | width and height at least | 16:44 |
| AStorm | which would be the same as angle+length | 16:44 |
| AStorm | and I'd have to go with negative widths and/or heights or lose data | 16:45 |
| RST38h | BUT by doing simple computation you can recover x,y,w,h form your a+l pair | 16:45 |
| AStorm | pity :> | 16:45 |
| AStorm | but I don't need x,y,w,h | 16:45 |
| RST38h | So you can store a+l as much as you like but use w+h for indexing | 16:45 |
| AStorm | and x,y,w,h is far too much data to index | 16:45 |
| AStorm | hmm, except it would have false positives | 16:45 |
| RST38h | wait wait wait | 16:46 |
| AStorm | can't distinguish left/right and up/down | 16:46 |
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| AStorm | so, angle and length it is | 16:46 |
| RST38h | So, you have got two a+l pairs. And you are recording a LINK between them? | 16:46 |
| AStorm | exactly | 16:46 |
| AStorm | (and a number of skips) | 16:46 |
| RST38h | Basically, what you are recording is a VECTOR then | 16:46 |
| * sisto is happy | 16:46 | |
| AStorm | but a 5-valued vector | 16:46 |
| AStorm | meaning a huge one | 16:46 |
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| RST38h | It is a vector. | 16:46 |
| RST38h | x,y,w,h | 16:47 |
| RST38h | or x,y,a,l | 16:47 |
| AStorm | I'd need two of those | 16:47 |
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| RST38h | or 2 x a,l | 16:47 |
| AStorm | 2x a,l really | 16:47 |
| AStorm | plus 2 bits plus number of skips | 16:47 |
| RST38h | AStorm: Instead of recording 2x a,l, just use rectangles. | 16:47 |
| RST38h | AStorm: Put them into an R-tree | 16:47 |
| RST38h | Astorm: store your extra bits at the leaves | 16:48 |
| RST38h | You are done. | 16:48 |
| AStorm | ehhh.. did I already mention that rectangles lose direction? | 16:48 |
| RST38h | they do not | 16:48 |
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| RST38h | negative w,h are quite possible | 16:48 |
| * aquatix has lost direction | 16:48 | |
| AStorm | I'll have to store it still | 16:48 |
| sisto | testing | 16:48 |
| AStorm | sisto: working | 16:48 |
| AStorm | RST38h: I see what you mean | 16:48 |
| RST38h | so you are not losing anything | 16:48 |
| AStorm | hmmm..... | 16:48 |
| sisto | AStorm: sorry i was testing my x-chat message color | 16:49 |
| RST38h | just looking at the same shit from a different errr... angle | 16:49 |
| AStorm | so, it's actually 2 points, number of skipped features | 16:49 |
| AStorm | and optionally 1 point, blank, -1 | 16:49 |
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| AStorm | the trick is, this "feature point" has to be generated from hwr input | 16:50 |
| sisto | ignore this test message | 16:50 |
| AStorm | and not bound to the actual plane or DPI | 16:51 |
| AStorm | *actual place | 16:51 |
| AStorm | hmm, I *can* convert these to single features... | 16:53 |
| AStorm | RST38h: thanks for the idea, now I can reduce dimensionality | 16:53 |
| sisto | OT: do java applets work in the browser in maemo? | 16:53 |
| AStorm | no | 16:54 |
| AStorm | unless you build us a JVM | 16:54 |
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| AStorm | which is not entirely impossible | 16:54 |
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| sisto | AStorm: that would be nice... i was thinking about yahoo games compatibility | 16:55 |
| AStorm | that uses Java 1.5, right? hmmm, *maybe* it could work with GNU Classpath | 16:55 |
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| AStorm | but I guess speed will be abysmal | 16:55 |
| woglinde | hi | 16:55 |
| woglinde | astrom depends | 16:55 |
| Stskeeps | AStorm: speed of yahoo games is always abysmal :P | 16:56 |
| woglinde | lol | 16:56 |
| AStorm | Stskeeps: then it would be unusable on NIT | 16:57 |
| herwood | hi | 16:57 |
| herwood | Does anybody know that is Bluetooth-module available in Maemo's Qt? | 16:57 |
| woglinde | herwood hm | 16:57 |
| woglinde | I think you mean qtopia | 16:58 |
| herwood | hmm | 16:58 |
| woglinde | or what you mean with bluetooth modul? | 16:58 |
| herwood | I mean this: http://qt4.garage.maemo.org/ | 16:59 |
| herwood | sorry | 16:59 |
| herwood | http://doc.trolltech.com/qtextended4.4/bluetooth.html | 16:59 |
| herwood | this | 16:59 |
| woglinde | ah | 16:59 |
| herwood | I'm trying to send a file via Bluetooth | 16:59 |
| AStorm | RST38h: so, I'll need width, height, number of quarter (2 bits), 2 bits stop, 4 bits skip | 16:59 |
| woglinde | qt4 is normal qt | 16:59 |
| woglinde | not qte | 16:59 |
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| AStorm | that is 3 byte address, 1 byte attached | 16:59 |
| sisto | OT again: is there a way to replace the sidebar or change the function of the icons? | 16:59 |
| woglinde | there was another project trying qtopia but didnt heard of them never more | 17:00 |
| woglinde | and if they ever swtiched to qte | 17:00 |
| AStorm | sisto: yes and yes - sidebar can be disabled | 17:00 |
| AStorm | and you can change all icons (there are examples) | 17:00 |
| herwood | hmm | 17:00 |
| AStorm | but can't lose the "task list" and "task switch" icon | 17:00 |
| AStorm | I think | 17:00 |
| RST38h | Astorm: you will need xy | 17:00 |
| herwood | woglinde: what about the bluetooth support? Can I somehow send a file by using OBEX OPP? | 17:00 |
| sisto | AStorm: thanks! | 17:00 |
| AStorm | RST38h: no, I don't - because now I have angle/len anyway | 17:01 |
| AStorm | it doesn't have to be attached anywhere (OSB records some measure of "causality") | 17:01 |
| RST38h | AStorm: just drop angle/len and have x1y1-x2y2 | 17:01 |
| AStorm | one byte, even? | 17:02 |
| AStorm | instead of w,h? | 17:02 |
| RST38h | AStorm: the links nonsense will automatically go away | 17:02 |
| Stskeeps | herwood: there's bluez and obex stuff in maemo | 17:02 |
| lcuk | RST38h, ugly and harder to track "similar" vectors | 17:02 |
| AStorm | I still need the length | 17:02 |
| AStorm | not just the scalar | 17:02 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Oh, not harder, just requires an extra index which is no problem | 17:02 |
| RST38h | AStorm; you can compute the length all right | 17:02 |
| AStorm | from a scalar? tell me how ;P | 17:03 |
| AStorm | or, how to get the angle | 17:03 |
| RST38h | AStorm: sqrt(x1^2+x2^2) | 17:03 |
| sisto | is there an awn port to maemo? (or similar) | 17:03 |
| AStorm | the angle is *required* - has to be directly or indirectly stored | 17:03 |
| RST38h | AStorm: angle? atan(x1/y1) | 17:03 |
| AStorm | but I don't have x1 or y1 in (x1y1-x2y2) | 17:03 |
| AStorm | they're not free variables | 17:04 |
| RST38h | AStorm: by "-" I meant a dash :) | 17:04 |
| AStorm | ah, then it's 4 bytes | 17:04 |
| AStorm | sorry, no can do | 17:04 |
| AStorm | it's not better | 17:04 |
| AStorm | I want to save space, not waste | 17:04 |
| RST38h | AStorm: it is better when you consider how much easier it is to index | 17:04 |
| RST38h | You will end up saving space | 17:04 |
| AStorm | it's not easier at all, because I want to have the features position independent | 17:04 |
| woglinde | herwood hm via the commandline all the obex commands should work | 17:05 |
| AStorm | (for increased generality and lower number of features) | 17:05 |
| * RST38h does not know what features are but from given conditions it looks like AStorm just operates with regular vectors | 17:05 | |
| AStorm | vectors of vectors | 17:06 |
| lcuk | astorm, i work on entire strokes and normalize everything within a 1.0*1.0 frame. its totally resolution independent, if i am working with a combined character i choose one stroke and scale others within the initial range as well | 17:06 |
| AStorm | OSB is (feat, feat, skip) | 17:06 |
| AStorm | feat is (angle, len, stop) | 17:06 |
| AStorm | so, I can actually merge the two feats for space savings | 17:06 |
| AStorm | lcuk: I do so too, but I don't want to store points - that ties it too much to relative position | 17:07 |
| herwood | woglinde: ok, thanks. I'm still a bit lost with this Qt. | 17:07 |
| woglinde | herwood hm? | 17:08 |
| AStorm | RST38h: I can actually have this changed to: (width, height, skip, stop, stop) | 17:08 |
| AStorm | hmm, though it would lose the length... meh | 17:08 |
| AStorm | false positives again | 17:08 |
| herwood | woglinde: ? | 17:08 |
| woglinde | herwood if you dont describe your problem we cant help you | 17:09 |
| AStorm | RST38h, lcuk - join a #tmp-hwr for a while | 17:09 |
| herwood | woglinde: Sorry about that, I didn't get it at first. So let me describe my problem a little bit more: | 17:11 |
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| herwood | woglinde: So, I'm trying to send a file via Bluetooth to another device by using OBEX OPP. I know other device's BT-address but the only problem is that I do not know how to use the OBEX in Qt. I've previously implemented the same app by using glib and there was this library called gw-obex which I could use to access OBEX. | 17:15 |
| herwood | gw-obex offered all the functionlity which I needed: set the callback functions for progress- and disconnect-signals and gw_obex_put_file -function which sent the actual file. | 17:17 |
| herwood | so now I'm trying to do the similar operation but under Qt | 17:17 |
| woglinde | herwood hm okay | 17:17 |
| Stskeeps | herwood: we still have gw-obex really, and Qt is a widget framework | 17:18 |
| Stskeeps | two different goals :P | 17:18 |
| Stskeeps | http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/node10.html#SECTION001024100000000000000 | 17:18 |
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| woglinde | herwood hm I would asking at #qt frist | 17:19 |
| woglinde | herwood it seems the bt support is not in the normal qt only in qte | 17:20 |
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| herwood | Stskeeps: I think I'm having some sort of noob mistake here now. So if I'll include the gw-obex.h -file in my code, I'll get a bunch of errors | 17:22 |
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| wazd | can anybody suggest small phone that has bt and edge in it? Possibly cheap :) | 17:27 |
| RST38h | wazd: Samsung U100 | 17:27 |
| wazd | since my 2630 is going to die soon :( | 17:27 |
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| wazd | RST38h: well, aren't samsungs bad at software? | 17:28 |
| aquatix | wazd: you're about to drop it in your drink? | 17:28 |
| RST38h | wazd: Dunno. U100 is so stupid that there is hardly any software there | 17:29 |
| aquatix | wazd: a sony ericsson phone maybe? | 17:29 |
| aquatix | i quite like those | 17:29 |
| johnx | gronk | 17:29 |
| johnx | yeah, se makes ok dumb-phones | 17:29 |
| wazd | tv-out, omfg :D | 17:30 |
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| woglinde | hi qwerty | 17:32 |
| qwerty12 | hey woglinde | 17:33 |
| wazd | maybe something from Philips Xenium series - they appear to work for weeks :) | 17:33 |
| wazd | qwerty12: hey there) | 17:33 |
| qwerty12 | hi wazd :) | 17:33 |
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| * qwerty12 curses himself for using "set -e" with maemo-confirm-text involved | 17:36 | |
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| johnx | ahaha...RIM's blackberry app-store-thing uses synaptic's icons | 17:37 |
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| t_s_o | heh, i would have loved to test out one of those philips phones, if they where available here... | 17:41 |
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| johnx | sure are a lot of them | 17:43 |
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| johnx | ahaha...a *month* of standby? | 17:47 |
| aquatix | yep | 17:47 |
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| aquatix | reminds me of the grayscale Palm devices too btw | 17:47 |
| johnx | wonder how the heck they get that out of 900mAh | 17:47 |
| * qwerty12 notes at the expense of features. But maybe I'm one of those people who expects everything from a phone. | 17:47 | |
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| aquatix | weeks of working on it on 1 charge | 17:48 |
| johnx | qwerty12, yeah, I'm spoiled now. :/ | 17:48 |
| qwerty12 | johnx, hah, I don't even know what you guys have there in Japan :P | 17:48 |
| johnx | I just have the free w/ contract sony ericson thing: 3G, tethering, 2mp camera (reads qr codes), AGPS, opera and supports rfid payment | 17:49 |
| johnx | that was free w/ contract in summer 2007 | 17:49 |
| aquatix | sounds like a nice companion to a NIT | 17:50 |
| johnx | no bt though | 17:50 |
| aquatix | oh | 17:50 |
| aquatix | meh | 17:50 |
| * qwerty12 wouldn't mind that :). I have a "standard" se phone (ENEA OSE) and it uses NetFront as the lame wap browser | 17:50 | |
| johnx | I could tether my zaurus with IRDA...ahaha | 17:50 |
| aquatix | well, nowadays you would have | 17:50 |
| aquatix | johnx: lol | 17:50 |
| johnx | agps is *fast* though and saved my butt a couple times | 17:51 |
| johnx | but data costs are a killer | 17:51 |
| aquatix | oh, no flat-fee 3G? | 17:51 |
| johnx | I could for the equivalent of ~$90 a month | 17:51 |
| aquatix | whoa | 17:51 |
| johnx | that would be total phone bill though | 17:52 |
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| aquatix | i have a (slowish) flat-fee subscription for 7 EUR/month | 17:52 |
| aquatix | that's throttled to 128kbit though | 17:52 |
| aquatix | ah | 17:52 |
| aquatix | that 7 EUR is extra on my gsm subscription | 17:52 |
| johnx | right now my whole plan with like ~10MB is $30/month | 17:52 |
| aquatix | hm | 17:52 |
| aquatix | 10MB... | 17:52 |
| johnx | if I go over 10MB it costs more but after a certain amount it retroactively signs me up for the unlimited for that month | 17:53 |
| aquatix | *g* | 17:53 |
| aquatix | well, that's rather nice of course | 17:53 |
| johnx | so, no matter how much I use I can never go over $100/month in data costs | 17:53 |
| aquatix | but still :) | 17:53 |
| * aquatix thinks that's still quite a bit | 17:53 | |
| aquatix | but i'm a cheapskate i guess | 17:53 |
| johnx | it's a lot but it's much more friendly than US carriers | 17:54 |
| johnx | they'd bill you $1000 and laugh all the way to the bank even if they lost you as a customer | 17:54 |
| aquatix | true | 17:54 |
| aquatix | that's why i'm glad i live in europe | 17:54 |
| qwerty12 | ^ | 17:54 |
| woglinde | hehe | 17:54 |
| qwerty12 | After hearing stories, I've come to an conclusion that US carriers leave a lot to be desired | 17:55 |
| johnx | yup. and they're 1,000 times better than the Canadian ones | 17:55 |
| johnx | I think the root cause in the US/CA is limited competition | 17:56 |
| aquatix | yeah | 17:56 |
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| aquatix | i'm quite sure of that | 17:56 |
| * johnx slaps US anti-trust enforcers with a frozen trout. "wake up!" | 17:56 | |
| qwerty12 | The carriers have them in their pay :P | 17:57 |
| aquatix | yeah | 17:57 |
| aquatix | lobbyists | 17:57 |
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| qwerty12 | Although a lot of the US only phones (CDMA and the like) are pretty cool. I wouldn't mind trying one here but all our networks here are GSM & UMTS etc | 17:58 |
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| johnx | yeah, when I'm eventually back in the states it will be a tough call whether to sell my soul and go cdma or try to stick with gsm | 17:59 |
| qwerty12 | Don't go the dark side! | 17:59 |
| johnx | two words: palm pre | 17:59 |
| RST38h | johnx: One word: VERIZON | 18:00 |
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| RST38h | johnx: Scared already? =) | 18:00 |
| johnx | RST38h, even worse: Sprint | 18:00 |
| RST38h | urgh | 18:00 |
| johnx | yeah | 18:00 |
| johnx | don't see any interesting options though | 18:00 |
| RST38h | ttg home though | 18:00 |
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| GeneralAntilles | johnx, the GSM Pre will be out eventually. | 18:01 |
| johnx | yeah, I might hold out | 18:01 |
| johnx | but sprint also has the best data network | 18:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Do they? | 18:02 |
| johnx | says gizmodo who I'm inclined to believe hate *everyone* enough not to take sides | 18:02 |
| * AndrewFBlack wishes we had a application that pulled movie showtimes from http://www.google.com/movies for local theaters and saved them on tablet for offline viewing. | 18:03 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Surely that must be region dependent, though. | 18:03 |
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| johnx | GeneralAntilles, of course | 18:03 |
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| johnx | but it was pretty clearly spring in the lead or following closely in second in the regions they tested | 18:03 |
| johnx | still, i have *no* idea how much traveling I'll be doing | 18:04 |
| johnx | hard to figure out priorities when I don't even know of cdma vs gsm will matter to me | 18:04 |
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| * qwerty12 curses his firefox showing "colour" as a spelling error | 18:08 | |
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| johnx | fix your locale? | 18:08 |
| qwerty12 | I think my locale is already en_GB but Ubuntu didn't see apt to install the en_GB dictionary for firefox :) | 18:09 |
| johnx | too bad the g1 has such crap battery life :/ | 18:10 |
| * GeneralAntilles found a key in his wallet and doesn't know what it's for. | 18:12 | |
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| johnx | uhm, it means you're the one and you can destroy the matrix? either that or you put your stuff in a locker at the train station/bus stop/airport and forgot to get it back :) | 18:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | Real key | 18:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | So it's not a locker or safe. | 18:14 |
| * GeneralAntilles is a little scared now | 18:14 | |
| GeneralAntilles | That's the kind of thing I would remember doing. | 18:15 |
| johnx | car key? house key? | 18:15 |
| Raytray | You got rid of your memory and the key is the only way of saving the world. Expect two men in black to come get you? | 18:15 |
| johnx | is it a copy or an original? | 18:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | johnx, house. Probably a copy. | 18:16 |
| johnx | huh | 18:16 |
| johnx | odd | 18:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Quite | 18:17 |
| woglinde | hi ga | 18:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hi, woglinde. | 18:18 |
| johnx | front door key to the playboy mansion? | 18:18 |
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| X-Fade | Key to the white house of course ;) | 18:19 |
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| X-Fade | GA for president ;) | 18:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sadly I don't have the time or money to travel to either of those places. :P | 18:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Inauguration speech: "Fuck you all!" | 18:19 |
| johnx | well then you'd best sell it on ebay :) | 18:19 |
| X-Fade | Pretty funny.. CNN will have satellite images of the crowd there ;) | 18:19 |
| johnx | this means we're finally in the future, right? | 18:20 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: laser beam from satelitte hack | 18:28 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:28 |
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| Stskeeps | i mean, if it's google's sattelite.. then noone would be surprised that google was actually just a front for SkyNet.. | 18:28 |
| johnx | but, but,...they said they wouldn't be evil :( | 18:29 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/pymer.png btw | 18:29 |
| Stskeeps | on x86 and armel | 18:29 |
| johnx | what app is that? | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | Migara or something like that | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | i don't recall | 18:30 |
| qwerty12 | mirage | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | mirage, yeah | 18:30 |
| johnx | holy craps! pymaemo is working? | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | we still need python-conic and other things, but, yeah | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | and i had to patch pygtk | 18:30 |
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| johnx | congrats though. looks great | 18:30 |
| qwerty12 | You still need a way of having conic pass a successful connection event ;) | 18:31 |
| Stskeeps | yeah.. | 18:31 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:31 |
| johnx | gwah...connecting py-conic to nm? | 18:32 |
| Stskeeps | or libconic itself | 18:32 |
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| johnx | so, libconic is open source, right? but it's purpose is to be an interface to icd, right? | 18:33 |
| Stskeeps | dbus interface | 18:33 |
| LinuxHack3r | sisto: Finally recieved an answer to my email. I was told that backorders are usually filled within 10-14 days, but they really don't have the slightest clue. I'd be entirely happy to get it within the 1st month of February. | 18:33 |
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| sisto | 1st day? | 18:33 |
| sisto | :) | 18:33 |
| sisto | that's nice to hear | 18:34 |
| qwerty12 | johnx, pretty much. it can request a disconnect & connect from icd, retrieve current proxy settings, see current state of wlan connectivity etc | 18:34 |
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| johnx | sisto, maybe he has longer februaries where he comes from :) | 18:34 |
| johnx | qwerty12, so hopefully we just need a simple wrapper for 90% functionality | 18:34 |
| qwerty12 | Would be nice :) | 18:35 |
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| LinuxHack3r | sisto: I meant first week. I guess that makes more sense. | 18:37 |
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| wazd | RST38h: I'm done with Spec icon) | 18:45 |
| * johnx <3 screen | 18:47 | |
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| wazd | well, something like that: http://i051.radikal.ru/0901/57/726a406bfaeb.png | 18:54 |
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| wazd | RST38h: gone to your e-mail | 18:58 |
| Stskeeps | heh, danish tv quality "and now the oath will be given to Powell" | 18:58 |
| Stskeeps | always good with correctness | 18:58 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:58 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: what do you think bout that layout?) http://s39.radikal.ru/i085/0901/39/39d110fce1fb.png | 19:00 |
| johnx | wazd, I know you weren't asking me, but I think that looks totally awesome :) | 19:00 |
| wazd | johnx: oh, and you too ofcourse :) | 19:01 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: can we do an activity walkthrough of it? | 19:01 |
| Stskeeps | (i'm reading for HCI exam tomorrow :( :( :() | 19:01 |
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| Stskeeps | wazd: looks quite interesting | 19:02 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: I've moved app menu button to the left | 19:02 |
| Stskeeps | it matches cos its similar place to the title bar previously i guess | 19:02 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: well, menu in the center was a total crap :) | 19:03 |
| Stskeeps | i guess we can only first see the true value when an interactive prototype is made | 19:04 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: it looked good in the statusbar but menu itself was very badly positioned | 19:04 |
| Stskeeps | maybe in flash and such | 19:04 |
| johnx | gah, I really wish I could see what Nokia planning with regards to hildon-desktop | 19:06 |
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| GeneralAntilles | johnx, yeah, obnoxious. :\ | 19:09 |
| johnx | meh. I wouldn't be worrying at all except that now wazd (and others) are putting forward these really nice mockups and I don't know whether I should try to see what's possible now or just wait | 19:10 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: if anything, we can rely on h-d being very heavily based on clutter | 19:11 |
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| Stskeeps | and we want to continue with the h-d as it is now, as our baseline i guess | 19:11 |
| johnx | ok, all I needed to hear :) | 19:11 |
| Stskeeps | if anything, we end up patching all those things in h-d that people wanted to do for ages :P | 19:12 |
| johnx | I'll finish up first-boot-wizard changes tonight and look at merging ubuntu patches into hildon-desktop | 19:12 |
| Stskeeps | k | 19:12 |
| johnx | again, no promises on what I can accomplish besides giving it a good looking over :) | 19:12 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 19:12 |
| johnx | opinions on having root and user password initially be set to the same thing? | 19:18 |
| Stskeeps | eventually we won't have a "root" password, just user, similar to ubuntu model, i guess | 19:18 |
| johnx | ah, so maybe we should move to ubuntu's sudo system now? | 19:18 |
| Stskeeps | that's a possibility yeah | 19:18 |
| Stskeeps | sudo is both the model in vista, and in ubuntu, so, that root usage is an exception | 19:19 |
| johnx | yup, I agree. experts can set a root password. woo! looks easy to do, just add a line to sudoers | 19:20 |
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| Stskeeps | sudoers.d, i think we use maemo's sudo so | 19:20 |
| johnx | O_o | 19:20 |
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| Stskeeps | http://repository.mer.tspre.org/pool/main/s/sudo/ | 19:20 |
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| Stskeeps | intentional choice - ubuntu doesn't have /etc/sudoers.d | 19:21 |
| johnx | the big change is just adding sudoers.d right? | 19:21 |
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| Stskeeps | making a file there yeah | 19:21 |
| johnx | ok, great | 19:21 |
| Stskeeps | and sudoers.d is more sane regarding applications and all that stuff | 19:21 |
| johnx | definitely | 19:21 |
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| johnx | ah *&$% | 19:22 |
| johnx | full of 'user'isms :/ | 19:22 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 19:23 |
| Stskeeps | we can replace it with groups instead probably | 19:23 |
| johnx | yup, ubuntu's admin group should work well I think | 19:23 |
| opengeekv2 | wazd: do you really moved the button? | 19:24 |
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| opengeekv2 | i like more than others | 19:25 |
| wazd | opengeekv2: nope, I lied :D | 19:28 |
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| opengeekv2 | ok nooo | 19:40 |
| opengeekv2 | oh nooo | 19:40 |
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| johnx | opengeekv2, did you do your own mockup in gimp? | 19:41 |
| opengeekv2 | yes | 19:41 |
| opengeekv2 | cutting and pasting things from other screenshots and mockups XD | 19:41 |
| opengeekv2 | desings of wazd are tro worked | 19:42 |
| opengeekv2 | wazd: how you draw all this things? | 19:43 |
| wazd | opengeekv2: photoshop | 19:44 |
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| opengeekv2 | do you have a lot of practice | 19:44 |
| wazd | opengeekv2: almost 7 years :) | 19:44 |
| opengeekv2 | omg | 19:44 |
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| wazd | opengeekv2: my first PC was so slow that couldn't run any game, so I had to play with photoshop :) | 19:45 |
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| opengeekv2 | hehe | 19:45 |
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| opengeekv2 | i'll try to make a mockup of how i think that fullscreen should be | 19:46 |
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| zenvoid_ | wazd: my first pc had no hard disk, so I had to play with hacking comand.com with an hexadecimal editor :-D | 19:54 |
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| Stskeeps | my first pc was a 286 that was PC incompatible, so i had to write my own gfx drivers and printer drivers | 19:54 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:55 |
| johnx | heh...I got into the game really late. | 19:55 |
| johnx | my only claim to fame is making an isa pnp modem and isa pnp sound card work at the same time in the same computer | 19:55 |
| Stskeeps | i had a UNIX machine standing in the next room since i was 8 :P | 19:56 |
| Stskeeps | it died of heat and us not knowing how to shut down the machine properly :P | 19:56 |
| johnx | my mom knows COBOL :) | 19:56 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 19:56 |
| * GeneralAntilles had AOL 1.0. ;) | 19:58 | |
| johnx | I sometimes miss the circa-1997/1998 internet | 19:59 |
| johnx | then I remember that the past sucks :) | 19:59 |
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| zenvoid_ | and before my first PC I was having fun learning assembly language for the zilog Z80 processor (spectrum) | 19:59 |
| Stskeeps | i remember dialing up with trumpet winsock. and how amazing it was to be on a LAN | 20:00 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:00 |
| Stskeeps | as in, with an ip address etc | 20:00 |
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| * johnx remembers re-compiling most of RH5.1 by hand | 20:00 | |
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| pupnik_ | i remember when Microsoft tried to prevent TCP/IP from being implemented on it's piece of shit operating system. | 20:02 |
| zenvoid_ | johnx: oh, looks a familiar hobby, good! :) | 20:02 |
| johnx | zenvoid, every couple years or so I seem to end up re-compiling a distro by hand for some reason that seems good at the time | 20:03 |
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| zenvoid | johnx: now that I know I'm not the only one in the world I really feel much better, man :) | 20:04 |
| johnx | I was trying to test gnome 0.54 and needed newer versions of libs. why were you recompiling everything? | 20:05 |
| zenvoid | johnx: ..... I don't know :S | 20:05 |
| johnx | my friend in high school thought I was crazy | 20:06 |
| johnx | took me more than a day to recompile XFree86 3.3.x | 20:06 |
| zenvoid | the knowledge adquired by compiling things, or assembling a distro from scratch, is always very handy | 20:08 |
| johnx | yes | 20:08 |
| zenvoid | maybe that's my reason: just to learn and see what happens | 20:08 |
| johnx | it's kind of a rite of passage though :) | 20:08 |
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| zenvoid | haha :) | 20:08 |
| johnx | something to do once and then realize why you don't do it all the time :) | 20:09 |
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| zenvoid | in my case I need to do it two or three times, but yes, agree :) | 20:10 |
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| wazd | johnx: oh, my mom knows COBOL too xD | 20:12 |
| johnx | ahaha. awesome | 20:12 |
| johnx | I bet my mom could beat your mom at tetris | 20:12 |
| johnx | :D | 20:12 |
| wazd | I don't think so cause my mom is descriptive geometry professor :D | 20:13 |
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| johnx | aaah, interesting. My mom has a masters degree in math though. Might be fun :) | 20:14 |
| wazd | johnx: battle of titans :) | 20:14 |
| zenvoid | XD funny thread | 20:15 |
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| * Guest90884 [W2I=000:u:0:000:] | 20:25 | |
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| Khertan_n810 | Hello ! | 20:25 |
| lardman | hello :) | 20:25 |
| johnx | mornin' Khertan_n810 and lardman :) | 20:25 |
| Khertan_n810 | Just a question about gtk.Image | 20:25 |
| Khertan_n810 | how can i know the space available for my pixbuf to render | 20:26 |
| lardman | "morning" all :) | 20:26 |
| qwerty12 | *cough* morning *cough* ;P | 20:26 |
| Khertan_n810 | if size_request answer me tghe size of the actual displayed pixbuf ? | 20:26 |
| lardman | qwerty12: ;) | 20:26 |
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| Khertan_n810 | no idea ? | 20:27 |
| inz | Khertan, the first question I have is what are you doing | 20:27 |
| Khertan_n810 | diplaying a jpg file in mNote | 20:28 |
| Khertan_n810 | s | 20:28 |
| inz | Khertan, first answer would be GTK_WIDGET(...)->allocation | 20:28 |
| Khertan_n810 | allocation return me 1,1 | 20:29 |
| inz | Khertan, so you want to scale the shown image to the size of the GtkImage? | 20:29 |
| Khertan_n810 | in width,height | 20:29 |
| inz | Khertan, when did you call it? | 20:29 |
| Khertan_n810 | inz: yep | 20:29 |
| Khertan_n810 | inz after he gtk.Image.show() | 20:29 |
| Khertan_n810 | far away after | 20:29 |
| inz | Khertan, you probably need to do it in (or after) "size-allocate" signal | 20:30 |
| timelE61i | hi inz | 20:30 |
| inz | Khertan, one problem is that the image set for a GtkImage changes the size the widget requests | 20:30 |
| inz | Hi timeless | 20:30 |
| woglinde_ | re | 20:30 |
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| timelE61i | Johnx: fwiw i just spent an hour or more pointing out problems in hildondesktop to the layout owner | 20:31 |
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| Khertan_n810 | inz: hum ... setting while size-allocate signal will not help as when i want to change the image i want to resize it before | 20:32 |
| Khertan_n810 | this is a while(True) problem | 20:32 |
| johnx | timelE61i, I'll take that as another vote for mer to 'do its own thing' :) | 20:32 |
| inz | Khertan, after the size-allocate has been sent, ->allocation should be correct | 20:33 |
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| timelE61i | pLease | 20:34 |
| johnx | :D | 20:34 |
| * johnx gets unlazy | 20:35 | |
| lardman | is the rss reader source online somewhere? | 20:35 |
| * lardman is looking for an example of using libconic | 20:36 | |
| timelE61i | if nokia's ideas are good, copying them shouldn't be too hard | 20:36 |
| johnx | lardman, i believe so. | 20:36 |
| qwerty12 | lardman, diablo one: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/o/ (search rss) | 20:36 |
| johnx | lardman, IIRC, it started life as liferea | 20:36 |
| timelE61i | mxr diablo has feedreader | 20:36 |
| timelE61i | In case you prefer the xref | 20:36 |
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| lardman | qwerty12: cool thanks, I was looking at svn repo | 20:36 |
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| johnx | timelE61i, I understand if you can't answer this, but could you comment on whether fremantle hildon-desktop requires clutter? | 20:37 |
| timelE61i | I'm not sure what the current public story is about src control | 20:37 |
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| timelE61i | But there's currently a discussion about getting a better story | 20:37 |
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| timelE61i | Johnx: i'm fairly certain i couldn't comment on that | 20:38 |
| timelE61i | Does it in the sdk? | 20:38 |
| Khertan_n810 | inz: thx for help | 20:38 |
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| johnx | timelE61i, not presently | 20:38 |
| johnx | yeah, don't worry about it. don't want you to get in trouble | 20:39 |
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| timelE61i | Does anything? | 20:39 |
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| timelE61i | To be honest, i'm not really sure what clutter is | 20:39 |
| Khertan_n810 | ini ve understand the problem now ... it was a thread blocking the gtk event loop ... so gtk.Image was never sending size-allocate signal | 20:39 |
| timelE61i | Wrt xref for fremantle, we got an xref for this week, but searching failed, not sure why yet | 20:39 |
| timelE61i | Glimpse complained | 20:40 |
| timelE61i | My box is still w/o any network connectivity, so i can't try there | 20:40 |
| johnx | timelE61i, seems to be a library to easily draw things (widgets, pictures) in 3D using hardware acceleration | 20:40 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: i think of it more like a animation engine really | 20:41 |
| Stskeeps | a little like flash | 20:41 |
| Stskeeps | for shiny effects | 20:41 |
| johnx | hmmm, guess that makes more sense | 20:41 |
| timelE61i | If you could use it and were nokia and wanted to make something shiny. Where would you use it? | 20:41 |
| timelE61i | Heck, if you were ms or apple where did you use that? | 20:42 |
| Stskeeps | the first boot wizard. | 20:42 |
| johnx | heh, the launcher and app switcher :) yeah, Stskeeps said that earlier. | 20:42 |
| Stskeeps | ;) | 20:42 |
| * johnx wants bash bindings for clutter | 20:43 | |
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| timelE61i | fWiw, i have no access to anything atm | 20:43 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_roadmap/Fremantle#UI_Framework | 20:43 |
| timelE61i | But it seems like there's some vaguely logical possibilities | 20:43 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: it's basically replacing hildon-desktop, using matchbox2, and libnotify | 20:44 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, ah! hadn't seen that. I figured you were just using intuition | 20:44 |
| Stskeeps | or whatever the notify it is | 20:44 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: nop, straight fact and observing how nokia acted :P | 20:44 |
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| johnx | my intuition was nagging me about h-d probably moving to clutter, but I didn't see confirmation until now | 20:45 |
| johnx | ah well, Nokia will just have to see what they're missing then :) | 20:45 |
| Stskeeps | well since they "forward ported h-d to fremantle apis" as a gesture, it means the code is cut off ;) | 20:45 |
| timelE61i | stskeeps: you cheated and read the plan? | 20:45 |
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| Stskeeps | timelE61i: well this was together with tendancies seen on SVN, so :P | 20:46 |
| Stskeeps | but yeah, plan definately confirmed things | 20:46 |
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| timelE61i | and stalked the coders | 20:46 |
| timelE61i | Such an unfair advantage over the rest of us | 20:46 |
| timelE61i | ;-) | 20:46 |
| Stskeeps | it's cheaper than getting a random nokia coder drunk | 20:47 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:47 |
| * RST38h moos softly | 20:47 | |
| timelE61i | Fwiw, i'm told the browser team doesn't run desktop for testing | 20:47 |
| woglinde_ | hi rst | 20:47 |
| RST38h | ehlo woglinde | 20:47 |
| inz | Khertan, beware, gtk_image_set_pixbuf causes size-allocation signal | 20:47 |
| lardman | anyone know how to use conic? | 20:47 |
| *** woglinde_ is now known as woglinde | 20:47 | |
| johnx | timelE61i, they can borrow ours pretty soon :) | 20:47 |
| timelE61i | Lardman: microb uses it | 20:47 |
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| timelE61i | Johnx: here are their requirements: | 20:48 |
| timelE61i | 1. Doesn't crash | 20:48 |
| timelE61i | 2. Doesn't crash | 20:48 |
| lardman | timelE61i: yeah, that's probably a better bet than feed-reader, feed-reader connects at startup, which is not what I want | 20:48 |
| timelE61i | 3. Can launch browser | 20:48 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: has our h-d crash yet? :P | 20:48 |
| Stskeeps | except for a status applet doing it | 20:48 |
| timelE61i | I think that's all | 20:48 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, not that I know of, even on 640x480 :) | 20:48 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: except for that weird dbus-glib bug | 20:48 |
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| timelE61i | Feel free to guess why they stopped using h-d | 20:49 |
| inz | Khertan, this seems to work relatively well: | 20:49 |
| inz | Arrg | 20:49 |
| johnx | timelE61i, dur...because they don't like the color? | 20:49 |
| RST38h | N9x0 picture leaked: http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/01/1-20-09-lg-handsets.jpg =) | 20:49 |
| inz | Khertan, http://pastebin.com/d4a43863f | 20:49 |
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| johnx | RST38h, from the bottom of my heart... | 20:49 |
| johnx | RST38h, zark off | 20:49 |
| timelE61i | Lardman: search mxr for the conic header in microb-eal | 20:50 |
| * RST38h grins at johnx and cackles evilly | 20:50 | |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: i can't take this much disappointment in a day :( | 20:50 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:50 |
| wazd | oh, 3 days ago I had my blog's birthday :) | 20:50 |
| wazd | RST38h: check your e-mail :) | 20:50 |
| RST38h | I don't think anyone will argue that the clickwheel is a good idea | 20:50 |
| johnx | clickwheel++ | 20:50 |
| RST38h | wazd: Seen it - it is a png though =) | 20:51 |
| timelE61i | Aren't those patented? | 20:51 |
| wazd | RST38h: oh, crap | 20:51 |
| wazd | RST38h: sorry :) | 20:51 |
| * GeneralAntilles runs at RST38h with a knife. | 20:51 | |
| lardman | ~mxr | 20:51 |
| johnx | mighty mouse style 'mini trackball' would be even better, but those seem to have longevity issues | 20:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | I swear, I though I was going to click on something real. | 20:51 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, he get you too? | 20:51 |
| RST38h | wazd: But it looks cute =) Sure those buttons where blue? | 20:51 |
| RST38h | were | 20:51 |
| timelE61i | Mxr.maemo.org/diablo | 20:51 |
| lardman | where's that infobot? | 20:51 |
| RST38h | General: that was the purpose | 20:51 |
| * RST38h hides | 20:52 | |
| lardman | timelE61i: thanks | 20:52 |
| timelE61i | Enter conic in the first box and microb-eal in the second | 20:52 |
| johnx | I think there's a pretty good case that a clickwheel is the same thing you see on every $5 mouse | 20:52 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: http://www.theonion.com/content/news_briefs/bush_dies_peacefully_in_his | 20:52 |
| RST38h | johnx: it is a bit simpler and cheaper actually | 20:52 |
| RST38h | johnx: I have got one on the development board | 20:52 |
| johnx | RST38h, definitely. and more reliable. but did you ever try a mighty mouse in photo shop or similar? | 20:53 |
| RST38h | Naah, I do not do Mac | 20:53 |
| wazd | RST38h: mmm, maybe I have a photo with wrong white balance :) | 20:53 |
| RST38h | No Photoshop either... | 20:53 |
| johnx | it's very, very handy | 20:53 |
| * lardman wonders if he should wait on a semaphore and then trigger it from the conic callback to make his code synchronous | 20:53 | |
| RST38h | wazd: Does not have to be the same as the photo, may look nicer with whiter keys | 20:53 |
| johnx | it's plain bt or usb. supported well in linux. i might pick one up | 20:53 |
| wazd | johnx: mighty mouse is piece of shit, sorry for that :D | 20:53 |
| johnx | wazd, yeah, tends to get dirty quick. really nice while it lasts :) | 20:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Problem with the mighty mouse is that the scrolling nipple clogs up with crap | 20:54 |
| wazd | johnx: I've tried it, it became dirty in 4 days | 20:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Then you can clean it. | 20:54 |
| RST38h | johnx: it has got a nipple for the trackwheel though | 20:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Personally, I recommend the MX Revolution. | 20:54 |
| wazd | I hate hardware that I have to use with cases, gloves, masks and bio-suits | 20:54 |
| johnx | meh, for a plain scroll mouse I prefer a 'microsoft basic' | 20:55 |
| RST38h | Sts: that would be a disappointment | 20:55 |
| wazd | RST38h: I'll make them light gray then | 20:55 |
| * RST38h actually agrees on MX Revolution. Had an older cheaper Logitech mouse of the same shape, worked like a charm | 20:55 | |
| wazd | I like my Microsoft Habu :) | 20:55 |
| RST38h | wazd: either that or light wheat, whatever looks better on them | 20:56 |
| johnx | gotta say. ms makes really solid hardware. too bad they won't just stick to what they're good at :/ | 20:56 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: i was watching for the missiles firing from the rooftops of washington when they flew away in a helicopter, but life just isn't fair like that. | 20:56 |
| RST38h | Sts: You know the most surprising part? | 20:56 |
| Stskeeps | he went without kicking and screaming? | 20:56 |
| RST38h | Sts: Quite often when we went to lunch back at UMD, his helicopter flew right over our heads | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | ah. | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | the surprising part was you didn't | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:57 |
| RST38h | Sts: Could probably shoot it with a handgun if there were any use for that | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, better bush than cheney :> | 20:57 |
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| RST38h | Sts: Anyways, this page is over, I am sure the next one will be just as "exciting" | 20:58 |
| Stskeeps | right. back to HCI reading. direct manipulation and instrumentness. yay. :P | 20:58 |
| wazd | RST38h: done | 20:59 |
| wazd | Better Bush than Al Gore xD | 20:59 |
| wazd | And I'm serial! | 20:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, the scroll wheel on the MX is the best. | 21:00 |
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| wazd | RST38h: btw there really was a modification with blue buttons :) | 21:01 |
| Meizirkki | qwerty12: how the heck did you get that much light? | 21:01 |
| RST38h | General: But does it really check your email? =) | 21:01 |
| Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: python-gtk2, python-osso, python-hildon on armel now btw, feel free to test :P | 21:01 |
| Meizirkki | Stskeeps: ookay | 21:02 |
| Stskeeps | if you can find some packages from extras requiring just that | 21:02 |
| RST38h | wazd: Should have just pictured a Leningrad48 PCB =) | 21:02 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: The only logitech thing I have is Nano mouse, which was kidnapped by my GF :D | 21:02 |
| johnx | mousenapper1 | 21:02 |
| johnx | 111!!11eleventeen | 21:02 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Meiz_n810, it's a joke, i use a n800 remember? :p (but the image is real) | 21:03 |
| RST38h | wazd: Got it! Going to put it in as soon as I reboot to Linux | 21:03 |
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| wazd | RST38h: fine) | 21:03 |
| wazd | johnx: I actually don't need it right now since I use wacom :) | 21:04 |
| Meizirkki | qwerty12_N800: cool :P | 21:04 |
| wazd | Wacom is the best mouse pointer in the world) | 21:04 |
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| lcuk | johnx, like i said, clutter == game engine | 21:07 |
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| johnx | lcuk, I thought about saying that, but I don't think it would have lead to more understanding :) | 21:07 |
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| lcuk | heh, timeless was right as well, similar to flash with stages and actors | 21:08 |
| johnx | well then for now it looks like polishing up h-d and giving you plenty of time to complete liq-laucher :) | 21:09 |
| RST38h | lcuk: afaik clutter != game engine | 21:09 |
| RST38h | lcuk: clutter is more like flash animations for glib | 21:09 |
| lcuk | RST38h, it lets you throw models around the screen, it runs on a timeline and lets you interact | 21:10 |
| RST38h | lcuk: flash. | 21:10 |
| lcuk | the onmly thing it needs is a score table (which you can creat) | 21:10 |
| woglinde | hi lcuk | 21:10 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: naah, throwing models on timeline basis does not make a game really | 21:10 |
| johnx | RST38h, there's a good argument that flash's best use is as a game engine | 21:10 |
| * timelE61i knows very little about flash | 21:10 | |
| lcuk | what does? | 21:10 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, if i wanted to make a 3d game in linux i would choose clutter | 21:11 |
| timelE61i | johnx: have you played dick's decent to hell? | 21:11 |
| johnx | timelE61i, not yet :) | 21:11 |
| RST38h | lcuk: You would choose OpenGL | 21:12 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Clutter is 2D | 21:12 |
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| timelE61i | gl is too low level | 21:12 |
| lcuk | good point lol, i keep thinking about its underpinnings with gl | 21:12 |
| RST38h | johnx: I don't know enough about flash but from what I know (timeline, vectors, javascript) it is best suited for a very specific type of games | 21:12 |
| timelE61i | Most people wrap it | 21:12 |
| lcuk | timelE61i, yeah and that wrapping is the game engine | 21:13 |
| RST38h | johnx: it will not do as a generic game engine | 21:13 |
| RST38h | johnx: myst-like adventures it will do very nicely though | 21:13 |
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| johnx | RST38h, my point being that it's more useful as 'some sort of game engine' than most other things it's used for | 21:14 |
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| wazd | http://alternativaplatform.com/ru/alternativa3d/ | 21:14 |
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| wazd | flash 3D game engine) | 21:14 |
| johnx | timelE61i, fun game. will get back to it when I have more time | 21:14 |
| timelE61i | he didn''t want to write a game engine, just a game :? | 21:14 |
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| * Guest90884 [W2I=000:u:0:000:] | 21:15 | |
| Khertan_n810 | hi again | 21:15 |
| lcuk | hold on a minute | 21:15 |
| pupnik_ | RST38h: originally, flash used no 2d/3d acceleration. did they ever get around to supporting that? | 21:15 |
| lcuk | if clutter is 3d only how the hell are we gonna get coverflow? | 21:16 |
| lcuk | 2d | 21:16 |
| Khertan_n810 | is there a way to understand on device why my icon isn t displayed in the taskbar ? | 21:16 |
| lcuk | its 3d | 21:16 |
| johnx | lcuk, 2.5D? | 21:16 |
| lcuk | johnx, i was looking at it and everything has xyz | 21:16 |
| wazd | pupnik_: Flash 10 has 3D acceleration now | 21:16 |
| lcuk | and however many rotations are required | 21:16 |
| johnx | wazd, on linux too? | 21:16 |
| wazd | johnx: don't know) | 21:17 |
| wazd | johnx: whatever xD | 21:17 |
| johnx | ~lart flash on linux | 21:17 |
| Khertan_n810 | when flash playerf will be open sourced it could be interesting ... else it s doesn t | 21:17 |
| pupnik_ | flash didn't even implement the concept of layers in a way that would allow for fast compositing in software | 21:17 |
| johnx | I wish it wasn't around so people would be more motivated to work on alternatives | 21:18 |
| johnx | if IE didn't suck, I'm sure FF wouldn't be nearly as far along as it is | 21:18 |
| lcuk | technically if it was an open spec and implementation then we wouldnt need alteratives | 21:18 |
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| pupnik_ | i thought flash protocol was published | 21:18 |
| timelE61i | it is | 21:18 |
| lcuk | possibly, but everyone is playing catchup | 21:19 |
| Khertan_n810 | the version 6 | 21:19 |
| timelE61i | iSn't silverlight an open spec? | 21:19 |
| timelE61i | So was java/classpath and clr | 21:19 |
| timelE61i | heck, ms's office xml is open :) | 21:20 |
| johnx | well, there's open and there's free... | 21:22 |
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| timelE61i | iirc c++ is nonfree | 21:24 |
| timelE61i | The others iirc are all free | 21:24 |
| timelE61i | (sgml is another nonfree(@ | 21:25 |
| johnx | I was under the impression that office xml was patent encumbered | 21:25 |
| Jaffa | Interesting stuff about Hildon: http://osnews.com/story/20804/Ubuntu_Mobile_Looks_at_Qt | 21:25 |
| johnx | though maybe the argument was it was just a pain | 21:25 |
| RST38h | pupnik: no idea, my guess is "no" | 21:25 |
| timelE61i | Well, you don't have to pay for a spec | 21:25 |
| timelE61i | Sgml costs more than ten usd iirc | 21:26 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: The Hilton framework! | 21:26 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Branches around the world... | 21:26 |
| johnx | timelE61i, I meant 'free' in the RMS sense of the word :) | 21:27 |
| timelE61i | now that sounds tm encumbered :) | 21:27 |
| oli | any bluemaemo users here? | 21:27 |
| RST38h | johnx: RMS has pretty much marginalized himself with his sense of the word | 21:28 |
| johnx | RST38h, yeah, but there is value in what he says | 21:28 |
| johnx | RST38h, discounting all of his ideas would be a silly mistake | 21:28 |
| RST38h | johnx: his main idea was to create a viral license that forces anyone reusing licensed code to release his own code under the same license | 21:29 |
| johnx | RST38h, I'm failing to see exactly how that's a bad thing. seems to have worked out rather nicely | 21:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, I like the guy comparing the iPod Touch's ARM11 to the Freerunner's ARM9. | 21:31 |
| * zenvoid thinks the same than johnx | 21:32 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh god. Xbox LIVE went political. | 21:32 |
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| RST38h | johnx: his definition of thus licensed code as "truly free" is obviously bogus | 21:33 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, yeah, I love the 'what boots faster' pissing contest. who the *$% reboots their phone/mp3 player/tablet all the time? | 21:33 |
| RST38h | johnx: because free means no strings attached and this stuff attaches lots of strings | 21:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, for serious. | 21:33 |
| zenvoid | RST38h: GPL tries to avoid the loose of freedoms | 21:34 |
| RST38h | johnx: whether it is good or bad I have no idea though, depends on your outlook | 21:34 |
| zenvoid | RST38h: it depends on how you look at it | 21:34 |
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| johnx | RST38h, he took some liberties with language :) maybe it would be more accurate to say that a codebase is guaranteed free over its life | 21:34 |
| RST38h | johnx: not really, it is guaranteed to be GPL-licensed, not free | 21:35 |
| johnx | s/free/RMS free/ :) | 21:35 |
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| johnx | and given that we're all talking about maemo linux not maemo netbsd I am inclined to call the GPL a more successful license | 21:36 |
| lcuk | GNU/maemo linux ;) | 21:36 |
| johnx | heh | 21:37 |
| johnx | anyways, </end license discuss>. back to bash'ing | 21:37 |
| timelE61i | um. Did anyone talk about the iphone recently? | 21:37 |
| lcuk | im gonna release the next version of liqbase under the microsoft open license | 21:37 |
| * lcuk cowers | 21:37 | |
| johnx | lcuk, that's ok. we'll fork from your existing code :) | 21:37 |
| kozak | Hi all, would like to know if there is some work going on to have maemo on beagle board. I am a newbie... would like to contribute in some way to it | 21:37 |
| timelE61i | Because that's bsd or rms-free (i.e. Free of rms) | 21:37 |
| lcuk | johnx, ive been waiting for that for a while ;) | 21:38 |
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| lcuk | doesnt look like anyone is taking me up on it | 21:38 |
| Stskeeps | kozak: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint would probably apply :) | 21:38 |
| lcuk | i made a fork after the summit, then brought it back in and then split again | 21:39 |
| Stskeeps | it should be trivial to put the maemo platform (hildon, etc) on top | 21:39 |
| johnx | kozak, well, the people inside Nokia claim to be putting some work into it, but the Mer project is also working on bringing the Maemo UI to an ubuntu distribution | 21:39 |
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| lcuk | maemo for my x41 suits me, its a touchable OS on a touchable device | 21:39 |
| lcuk | i might rename liqbase | 21:40 |
| johnx | lcuk, hmm? you're already running mer or something else? | 21:40 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: btw, are we hijacking potential maemo platform users with Mer? :P i get worried about our behaviour at times :) I guess nokia's interest is in the use of their apis across the scope and everything | 21:40 |
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| lcuk | no johnx, its not "there" for any device fully yet but it will be | 21:40 |
| kozak | yes I did see mer being mentioned in the IRC maybe ydays ... | 21:40 |
| lcuk | balls, libbacon exists | 21:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, bunch of damn spammers. . . . | 21:41 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: yeah. :P | 21:41 |
| lcuk | baconui | 21:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, well, Mer's doing what Nokia should be doing. | 21:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Spreading "Maemo" to other devices and platforms. | 21:41 |
| woglinde | hm steak | 21:42 |
| lcuk | johnx, in all seriousness i most likely wont be using gpl for the next version | 21:42 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, well, I think it would be different if Nokia had released a version of Maemo that could be easily run on the beagle | 21:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | So as long as you're not causing major breaks. :shrug:. | 21:42 |
| lcuk | since its bad form for a library to be gpl :) | 21:42 |
| kozak | would like to know the reason why a different UI Mer> Is it that the maemo dist. is completely owned by Nokia or something | 21:42 |
| Jaffa | Whilst Mer is the last, best hope for Fremantle components on N8x0 and is API compatible with the current version of Maemo, it ain't a problem :-) | 21:42 |
| johnx | lcuk, aaaah, so lgpl? | 21:42 |
| Stskeeps | kozak: it's not a different UI really - it's same underlying core, - and we just have people experimenting with other UI types | 21:43 |
| Jaffa | kozak: cos wazd isn't hindered by N-Series brand conventions or focus groups. | 21:43 |
| lcuk | looks that way yeah, if it stays as linkable then i might stick with gpl, but if its a dynamic lib ill do it lgpl | 21:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | kozak, no, they're moving to Clutter. | 21:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Plus those other two points. | 21:43 |
| Stskeeps | kozak: and the traditional Maemo themes are properitary :P | 21:43 |
| johnx | kozak, the basic GUI (hildon-desktop, matchbox) is the same as Nokia has currently released | 21:43 |
| kozak | oh ok | 21:43 |
| Stskeeps | kozak: we're actually using a more recent hildon-desktop than latest OS version for the tablets | 21:43 |
| lcuk | kozak, just because theres something available does not mean its got to be used. someone has had to pick up the reins and get moving | 21:44 |
| johnx | kozak, are you referring to the mockups? | 21:44 |
| * lcuk is using the most latest UI of all | 21:44 | |
| johnx | think we kind of overwhelmed him O_o; | 21:44 |
| kozak | johnx: Yes the mock ups | 21:44 |
| johnx | lcuk, late in that you missed your release date? :P | 21:44 |
| lcuk | heh yeah johnx | 21:45 |
| Stskeeps | kozak: to get technical, if you want to port Mer and maemo UI platform to beagleboard, get Ubuntu Jaunty running on it first - from there it's trivial. | 21:45 |
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| lcuk | but that wasnt decided until very recently to be generic | 21:45 |
| lcuk | i went to the summit with ideas to build some apps and a nice way to draw them | 21:45 |
| johnx | kozak, well, Nokia will be going a different direction with fremantle and most likely basing their replacement for hildon-desktop on clutter. clutter will likely require hardware 3D acceleration to work well | 21:45 |
| johnx | and we'd like to run on platforms where 3D hardware acceleration isn't necessarily available | 21:46 |
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| lcuk | dare i say it will also prefer an atom cpu | 21:46 |
| luke-jr | eww | 21:46 |
| luke-jr | x86 | 21:46 |
| johnx | lcuk, what? | 21:46 |
| lcuk | who owns openedhand? | 21:46 |
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| woglinde | intel | 21:47 |
| lardman | lcuk: thanks for the email | 21:47 |
| lcuk | :D | 21:47 |
| kozak | I do see a point in lcuk with x86 | 21:48 |
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| wazd | RST38h: Think so) | 22:11 |
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| johnx | hey Meiz_n810 :) | 22:11 |
| Meiz_n810 | hi johnx | 22:12 |
| lcuk | mmmm sqlite is case sensitive internally | 22:12 |
| RST38h | Sts: All right, let us debug it | 22:13 |
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| RST38h | Sts: In the pixbuf_proto_request() function, write the following in the first lines: | 22:13 |
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| RST38h | Sts: {int j;for(j=0;j<32;++j) printf("0x02X ",((unsigned char *)req)[j]);printf("\nsizeof=%d\n",sizeof(*req));return(0); } | 22:15 |
| RST38h | Sts: Run it on both CPUs and post results | 22:15 |
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| johnx | I should be able to do that here since Stskeeps has exams to study for :) | 22:16 |
| RST38h | Ok, as long as you have both CPUs to test on | 22:17 |
| johnx | check :) | 22:17 |
| johnx | n800 / omap2420 and zaurus / PXA270 | 22:18 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: would = {0}; assignment potentially be bad, btw? | 22:18 |
| RST38h | I expect the sizeof to be the same but the contents will probably differ, if THAT is indeed the cause of the crash | 22:18 |
| Stskeeps | i never saw that before | 22:18 |
| RST38h | Sts: Where? | 22:19 |
| Stskeeps | when the buf that is being passed into pixbuf_proto_request is created | 22:19 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, common way to init a structure to all zeros | 22:19 |
| Stskeeps | lines 94 | 22:19 |
| RST38h | Ah, there | 22:19 |
| Stskeeps | mmk | 22:19 |
| RST38h | Well, I think the newer C standard allows this | 22:19 |
| johnx | (getting setup to build sapwood) | 22:20 |
| RST38h | not sure if it will clear the whole struct or just the first element though | 22:20 |
| lcuk | its the whole block | 22:20 |
| lcuk | http://msdn.microsoft.com/ja-jp/library/81k8cwsz(VS.80).aspx | 22:24 |
| lcuk | If initializer-list has fewer values than an aggregate type, the remaining members or elements of the aggregate type are initialized to 0. | 22:24 |
| lcuk | (thank you microsoft for clearest explanation) | 22:24 |
| timelE61i | Lcuk: ms / borland historically have good compiler docs | 22:25 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Doesn't it mean I can do {}; ? :) | 22:25 |
| lcuk | the definition has to be recursively sound and within each { } level it must fill the whole defined size, because it would make for silly compiler errors if you extended the struct without extending each init thereof | 22:25 |
| johnx | RST38h, does this look right or am I being dense? http://rafb.net/p/MmmRgQ92.html | 22:25 |
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| lcuk | timelE61i, historically yeah, something screwed up with .net though (especially in the documentation) | 22:26 |
| johnx | (...compiling...) | 22:28 |
| RST38h | johnx: if it passes compilation it should be fine :) | 22:28 |
| johnx | just wanted to make sure I wasn't misinterpreting your instructions | 22:29 |
| RST38h | johnx: Do you specify architecture in your compiler options? | 22:29 |
| johnx | it's compiled for armv5te in both cases | 22:29 |
| johnx | and historically the same binary behaves differently on different systems | 22:29 |
| RST38h | on which one does it crash again? | 22:29 |
| johnx | armv5te | 22:30 |
| RST38h | on which one it does not crash then? | 22:30 |
| johnx | armv6 | 22:30 |
| johnx | also, a note: it behaves correctly on qemu emulating an armv5te | 22:31 |
| RST38h | hehe | 22:31 |
| RST38h | my guess is that is has something to do with an unaligned memory access | 22:31 |
| johnx | think it might be some problem with compiler optimizations? | 22:32 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: i tried with noopt as well | 22:32 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: oh, and it doesn't crash, just corrupts the buf | 22:33 |
| RST38h | johnx: no idea | 22:33 |
| ssvb | johnx: does it crash on PXA270? | 22:33 |
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| RST38h | johnx: going to see what is in that buffer first, and read on armv6 in the meanwhile | 22:33 |
| johnx | RST38h, compiled on armv6. for completeness sakes I'm running a native build on/for both | 22:33 |
| lcuk | gah! at case sensitive sqlite | 22:33 |
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| RST38h | Ok, ARMV5 is basically thumb and clz instruction | 22:34 |
| Stskeeps | (buf corruption: ->length ends up in _pad1) | 22:34 |
| ssvb | johnx: you may have data alignment problems | 22:35 |
| woglinde | rst and bx | 22:35 |
| RST38h | woglinde: aka thumb. | 22:35 |
| RST38h | Ok, it IS a data alignment problem | 22:35 |
| wazd | RST38h: ok, check your mail | 22:35 |
| RST38h | Let us quote from armv6 white paper: Current versions of the architecture require a number of instructions to manage unaligned | 22:36 |
| RST38h | data. ARMv6 compliant architectures will manage unaligned data more efficiently in | 22:36 |
| RST38h | hardware. | 22:36 |
| RST38h | wazd: acknowledged | 22:36 |
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| johnx | the odd part is this must have worked on the 770 for OS2008HE *somehow* | 22:37 |
| lcuk | compiler flags? | 22:37 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: the engine and server wasn't seperated that much there | 22:37 |
| Stskeeps | but i think it happened too | 22:37 |
| RST38h | wazd: The back is really good now, but the front is ugly :( | 22:37 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, I've had this problem since ~a year ago | 22:37 |
| Stskeeps | true | 22:37 |
| Stskeeps | so it must have been similar | 22:37 |
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| RST38h | wazd:Can you keep it the same way as it was before and just remove the sharp corners? | 22:38 |
| RST38h | Sts: Are you sure it is length? | 22:38 |
| RST38h | AHSHITIKNOWWHATITIS | 22:39 |
| johnx | !! | 22:39 |
| woglinde | wooooooooooooooooooooooooo | 22:39 |
| Stskeeps | hm? | 22:39 |
| * RST38h affectionately calls Sapwood people stupid idiots | 22:39 | |
| lcuk | doh! | 22:39 |
| ssvb | johnx: behaviour depends on /proc/cpu/alignment | 22:39 |
| RST38h | Sts,johnx: Let us get back to the original code | 22:39 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: everything basically ones one to the left | 22:39 |
| Stskeeps | i think | 22:40 |
| Stskeeps | (i can't remember my debug output) | 22:40 |
| RST38h | Sts,johnx: You will see that these worthy gentlemen allocate an array of BYTES on stack and cast it to a structure. Right | 22:40 |
| RST38h | ? | 22:40 |
| Stskeeps | ah. | 22:40 |
| RST38h | Sts,johnx: This structure is going to contain 16bit integers and thus has to be aligned AT LEAST to the even address boundary | 22:40 |
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| woglinde | hihi | 22:41 |
| johnx | ssvb, pretend I'm dumb. what am I looking to see there (though they do look radically different between those systems) | 22:41 |
| RST38h | If it is not aligned, the nature of fuckup will depend on the CPU model, memory management hardware, etc. | 22:41 |
| woglinde | the old aligment struct thinggie | 22:41 |
| RST38h | Ok, let us fix it gracefully and file a bug to Maemo devs | 22:41 |
| johnx | RST38h, :D So, what kind of beer do i owe you? | 22:42 |
| RST38h | Define it like that: | 22:42 |
| ssvb | johnx: you can read here for example: http://lecs.cs.ucla.edu/wiki/index.php/XScale_alignment | 22:42 |
| ssvb | johnx: just googled this page | 22:42 |
| johnx | RST38h, which is to say: Thanks | 22:42 |
| johnx | ssvb, thanks. reading :) | 22:42 |
| RST38h | struct { PixbufOpenRequest req;char filename[PATH_MAX+1]; } req; | 22:43 |
| RST38h | johnx: I charge in blood =) | 22:43 |
| RST38h | johnx: no sweat though | 22:43 |
| johnx | RST38h, your choices are Sapporo, Yebisu or Kirin. I think blood is a Russian brand? | 22:43 |
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| RST38h | Anyways, if you declare req as shown above (break into separate lines) the only abnormality you would get is maybe an extra byte of padding between req and filename, but you shouldn't care | 22:44 |
| ssvb | johnx: the problem is that linux kernel has an idiotic default regarding unaligned memory accesses, this makes spotting these issues harder | 22:44 |
| RST38h | johnx: universal =) | 22:44 |
| RST38h | johnx: I don't drink so don't worry about it | 22:44 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: the req allocated there will be aligned well on the stack, so we can safely pass it off as a char * to the pixbuf thing? | 22:45 |
| johnx | RST38h, fair enough. If you end up at the next summit or similar I'll have some terrifying souveneir for you | 22:45 |
| RST38h | Sts: Yes. | 22:45 |
| RST38h | Sts: compiler will take care of it | 22:45 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: now, that's the kind of crap i didn't get taught in school | 22:45 |
| RST38h | johnx: Fugu! | 22:45 |
| RST38h | no, no just joking | 22:46 |
| johnx | RST38h, I'll prepare it myself. :> | 22:46 |
| RST38h | Sts: That is because you did not have SPARC hardware in school =) | 22:46 |
| RST38h | Sts: Because otherwise you would be severely punished by the system =) | 22:46 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: hehe | 22:46 |
| johnx | ssvb, it's entirely possible that the kernel was screaming about it in the logs and I didn't know that it was important | 22:46 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: anyway, this means we'll be able to put a working sapwood on 770 and such :) many many thanks | 22:47 |
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| johnx | I'll apply the change and test:) | 22:48 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: i think we need to change things further down really | 22:49 |
| Stskeeps | as the structure will be changed | 22:49 |
| Stskeeps | (i think) | 22:49 |
| Stskeeps | or not | 22:49 |
| * Stskeeps goes back to devilish HCI | 22:49 | |
| RST38h | it will not change | 22:49 |
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| Stskeeps | in any case, it warrants a bug report :P | 22:51 |
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| johnx | "Fixed in fremantle since we no longer run on armv5" :) | 22:52 |
| RST38h | Yes, it is definitely grounds for a bug report | 22:52 |
| Stskeeps | it's related to https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3939 | 22:52 |
| RST38h | it *is* a bug | 22:52 |
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| Jake42-2 | hi guys, I would need your help again.... | 22:53 |
| Jake42-2 | I have finally managed to install a web server with php... | 22:53 |
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| Jake42-2 | but I don't have mysql support... | 22:53 |
| Jake42-2 | (I need the php5-mysql or any equivalent) | 22:53 |
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| Jake42-2 | can't I get the original one and paste it in a directory? | 22:54 |
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| RST38h | no. | 22:55 |
| Stskeeps | mm? | 22:56 |
| RST38h | he can't paste an x86 binary there and expect it to run | 22:56 |
| Jake42-2 | so... what am I gonna do? | 22:56 |
| Jake42-2 | I need the connection between php- mysql... | 22:56 |
| RST38h | probably die... eventually... | 22:56 |
| RST38h | you can try compiling it for Maemo but I would suggest using sqlite instead | 22:57 |
| Jake42-2 | (that would make happy many people....but ....:P It doesnt work on me) | 22:57 |
| Jake42-2 | I have already made the database in mysql | 22:57 |
| RST38h | won't require lot of changes | 22:58 |
| Jake42-2 | I don't have time to learn sql-lite | 22:58 |
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| RST38h | The main point is tht sqlite is already available (checking right now) | 22:58 |
| Jake42-2 | yes.... | 22:58 |
| Jake42-2 | I know that.. | 22:58 |
| Jake42-2 | but the base is huge.... | 22:58 |
| Jake42-2 | how about to make the php-mysql by myself??? | 22:59 |
| Jake42-2 | (too difficult?) | 22:59 |
| RST38h | is your db store locally on the tablet or remotely on some server? | 22:59 |
| RST38h | stored | 22:59 |
| Jake42-2 | now it is on a server (desktop) | 22:59 |
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| Jake42-2 | but I want to make it work on the tablet | 23:00 |
| RST38h | if you want to move it to the tablet, expect performance problems | 23:00 |
| RST38h | more so with mysql than with sqlite | 23:00 |
| Jake42-2 | it doesn't matter | 23:00 |
| Jake42-2 | how about write the php-mysql | 23:01 |
| RST38h | aside from this, get php5-mysql and compile it using Maemo SDK | 23:01 |
| Jake42-2 | by myself? | 23:01 |
| Jake42-2 | xmmm | 23:01 |
| Jake42-2 | hmmmmmmmmmm | 23:01 |
| RST38h | what? | 23:01 |
| Jake42-2 | sounds very good :) | 23:01 |
| Jake42-2 | but...what tools? | 23:01 |
| RST38h | Maemo SDK. | 23:01 |
| Jake42-2 | (just a maemo sdk compiler and the origianl php5-mysql ?) | 23:02 |
| RST38h | yes. | 23:02 |
| lcuk | sqlite is not complete and is a slightly older version, there will be things you want to do which make you pull your hair out | 23:02 |
| Jake42-2 | lcuk you give me hopes :) | 23:03 |
| lcuk | and sqlite uses a case sensitive syntax for its sql and its damned frustrating :) but thats only my opinion | 23:03 |
| woglinde | lcuk hm you will fight it | 23:03 |
| Jake42-2 | RST38h the maemo SDK is still beta... :( | 23:03 |
| lcuk | woglinde, its just another thing ;) | 23:03 |
| lcuk | ive got my data into the database now and im looking at how quick it is | 23:03 |
| woglinde | lcuk ah | 23:04 |
| lcuk | the sdk is fine | 23:04 |
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| RST38h | Qualcomm now owns Geode, apparently | 23:05 |
| woglinde | rst ui | 23:05 |
| opengeekv2 | wazd and others: hey i have some new mockups from the oven XD | 23:05 |
| Jake42-2 | RST38h, man which maemo SDK???? | 23:05 |
| * lcuk doesnt like mockups | 23:06 | |
| Jake42-2 | http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_4_0_chinook_beta_sdk/ ??? | 23:06 |
| Jake42-2 | (I have installed diablo, is it ok???) | 23:06 |
| lcuk | http://maemo.org/development/sdks/maemo_4-1-2_diablo/ | 23:06 |
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| * RST38h shouldn't have suggested compiling... | 23:07 | |
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| opengeekv2 | oh sorry maby I've forgotten salt and pepper XD | 23:07 |
| RST38h | Wrong, *wrong* idea it was... | 23:07 |
| lcuk | opengeekv2, lol its not that theres anything wrong with a mockup, i just prefer to touch :) lemme have a link | 23:08 |
| Jake42-2 | y man??? | 23:08 |
| opengeekv2 | ok | 23:08 |
| lcuk | opengeekv2, have you seen my apps? | 23:08 |
| opengeekv2 | http://opengeek.wordpress.com/2009/01/20/mermaemo-5-mockup-2-fullscreen-realted/ | 23:08 |
| opengeekv2 | no pleas pass me a link withs salt a pepper | 23:09 |
| lcuk | http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/liqbase/ (and don't forget to vote and comment if you like) and a much more expansive overview here http://liqbase.net/ install on your device and see | 23:10 |
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| opengeekv2 | oh you are the creator of liqbase? | 23:10 |
| opengeekv2 | hehe | 23:11 |
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| timelE61i | so does it work on my 770 yet? :) | 23:12 |
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| timelE61i | (actually, my 770 is out atm) | 23:12 |
| johnx | timelE61i, mer? recompiling sapwood now :) | 23:12 |
| opengeekv2 | i'll try it when i get a new charger for n800 | 23:12 |
| timelE61i | Liq | 23:12 |
| lcuk | opengeekv2, the mockup for the fullscreen menus, http://liqbase.net/liq.20090107_005847.lib.scr.png this is an early test i was messing with, each corner of the fish widget was active | 23:12 |
| oli | would it be hard to add pressure-sensivity recognition to bluemaemo? :> | 23:13 |
| lcuk | timelE61i, did you sent me your 770 yet | 23:13 |
| r2d2rogers | johnx: I knew I'd miss my dev 770 when I realized I'd left it at home.. | 23:13 |
| Stskeeps | r2d2rogers: we found the sapwood problem! | 23:13 |
| lcuk | opengeekv2, you have seen liqbase then :) | 23:13 |
| Stskeeps | or well, RST38h did in his wisdom | 23:14 |
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| Jake42-2 | RST38h may I install maemo compiler in windows? | 23:14 |
| opengeekv2 | i ahve to buy a new carger for my n800 nowadys it not works | 23:14 |
| lcuk | you can try, but it wont work | 23:14 |
| opengeekv2 | but i've seen the image | 23:14 |
| Jake42-2 | ohhh god... | 23:14 |
| lcuk | theres a vmware appliance somewhere | 23:15 |
| Jake42-2 | yup...I saw it | 23:15 |
| Jake42-2 | but I don't know how it works | 23:15 |
| RST38h | Jake: Go with sqlite. | 23:15 |
| lcuk | Jake42-2, you are stuck in catch 22, you will not stop saying "ohhhh god" for about another 8 or 9 months | 23:15 |
| lcuk | then you will "get" it :) | 23:15 |
| * lcuk still shakes head at linux | 23:15 | |
| Jake42-2 | catch 22? | 23:15 |
| Jake42-2 | yes man | 23:16 |
| johnx | aaah, memories: 2008 Mar 05 22:24:29 <johnx_> also, gah, sapwood-server is being a PITA | 23:16 |
| lcuk | you want something but you have to do something else first | 23:16 |
| Jake42-2 | I have linux on my pc as well | 23:16 |
| Jake42-2 | now I use windows for photshop | 23:16 |
| lcuk | are you this bad at it? | 23:16 |
| Jake42-2 | no | 23:16 |
| RST38h | lcuk: This is a clear and simple case for sqlite | 23:16 |
| Jake42-2 | medium- experienced | 23:16 |
| r2d2rogers | Stskeeps: I'll be up for testing in about 2 hoours, unless the spare card I have here builds a mer image faster than that | 23:17 |
| lcuk | i dunno what its needed for though, yesterday he wanted a whole server | 23:17 |
| Jake42-2 | lcuk | 23:17 |
| Jake42-2 | I made the whole think | 23:17 |
| Stskeeps | r2d2rogers: hehe, didn't say we had a compiled fixed version yet, just that we know how to solve it :) | 23:17 |
| lcuk | opengeekv2, theres videos on liqbase.net | 23:17 |
| Jake42-2 | now I miss only the part of | 23:17 |
| Jake42-2 | php-mysql... | 23:17 |
| woglinde | urgs | 23:17 |
| lcuk | just a tiny little bit :) | 23:17 |
| Jake42-2 | *thing | 23:18 |
| opengeekv2 | i've found the vmware image | 23:18 |
| RST38h | lcuk: and he does not yet know that he also needs mysql... | 23:18 |
| woglinde | either php nor mysql | 23:18 |
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| opengeekv2 | i'llbe able to run liqbase on it no? | 23:18 |
| lcuk | no | 23:18 |
| lcuk | get a nokia charger :) | 23:18 |
| * lcuk remembers the time when he couldnt take screenshots with liqbase | 23:18 | |
| opengeekv2 | yes but in spain we are a 22:30 | 23:19 |
| lcuk | and it was all mine, just nurtured quietly :) | 23:19 |
| Jake42-2 | RST38h is it so difficult to compile something???? | 23:19 |
| Jake42-2 | (in maemo SDK, I have compiled many other programs | 23:19 |
| Jake42-2 | on gcc, javac...) | 23:19 |
| lcuk | Jake42-2, can i ask, what are you doing this for? | 23:20 |
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| Jake42-2 | for an electronic health record | 23:21 |
| Jake42-2 | as I said | 23:21 |
| * lcuk never heard | 23:21 | |
| Jake42-2 | openEMR? | 23:21 |
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| Jake42-2 | lets say | 23:21 |
| Jake42-2 | that you have EVERY medical DATA | 23:21 |
| Jake42-2 | on your phone | 23:21 |
| RST38h | Jake: If you have never done it before and do not know what SDK is, yes | 23:21 |
| Jake42-2 | (and/or also available on a web server) | 23:21 |
| lcuk | then run it from your desktop and connect via tablet | 23:22 |
| Jake42-2 | I know that the sdk is a compiler for java, or something like that.... isn't there any tutorial???) | 23:22 |
| RST38h | Not that it can't be learnt, but it will cost time | 23:22 |
| Jake42-2 | hmmm | 23:22 |
| johnx | Jake42-2, do you know what a cross compiler is? have you ever used one? | 23:22 |
| * RST38h braces himself and whistles quietly | 23:23 | |
| lcuk | >>>>>>>>> <Jake42-2> (in maemo SDK, I have compiled many other programs <<<<<<<<<< | 23:23 |
| Jake42-2 | I know | 23:23 |
| Jake42-2 | never used before | 23:23 |
| johnx | maemo SDK is an environment for cross compiling | 23:23 |
| * lcuk passes johnx a shotglass | 23:23 | |
| Jake42-2 | it's ok | 23:23 |
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| johnx | get the latest maemo SDK, look at the instructions, get the php-mysql source from packages.debian.org, and follow the instructions for making yourself a debian package | 23:24 |
| lcuk | Jake42-2, go read up about the sdk, and if you get confused find the maemo vmware image it has a preconfigured environment that you can use to learn from | 23:24 |
| Jake42-2 | just a sec | 23:25 |
| lcuk | it has hello world and stuff in amongst the ready made ubuntu+ide and everything ready installed and a readme | 23:25 |
| Jake42-2 | the vmware image | 23:25 |
| Jake42-2 | needs also an installed OS | 23:25 |
| Jake42-2 | or may I use it directly? | 23:25 |
| opengeekv2 | luck i've seen the videos i'm so impressed | 23:25 |
| johnx | Jake42-2, you install vmware player and use it directly | 23:26 |
| opengeekv2 | all this things you made in liqbase could be implemented on the mer UI without many problems? (i don't know much about coding) | 23:26 |
| lcuk | opengeekv2, the principles i started in liqbase are usable on a wide range of applications. | 23:27 |
| lcuk | they have been boiled down int a library (which if i had more time would be released by now) | 23:28 |
| Jake42-2 | the site http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/ refers that there are 4 parts | 23:28 |
| Jake42-2 | but only two of them are for download :S | 23:28 |
| lcuk | at the point that the api is semi stable i will be releasing the lib with some core ui examples and apps and hopefully they can be moulded into a nice set of apps for our devices :) | 23:29 |
| opengeekv2 | oh nice | 23:29 |
| johnx | Jake42-2, you download 1 thing from there: maemo-sdk-0.8.vmx | 23:30 |
| opengeekv2 | my blog not ever talks about maemo but can I put it on the planet? | 23:30 |
| lcuk | opengeekv2, as for whether it can be made to fit in with mer, yes http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=253955 | 23:30 |
| lcuk | opengeekv2, not really yet, get more direction towards maemo | 23:31 |
| johnx | Jake42-2, ah, i see what you mean. use the bittorrent link maybe | 23:31 |
| Jake42-2 | johnx it is parts... | 23:31 |
| lcuk | people will give you lots of thumbs down if they dont see very specific things | 23:31 |
| * lcuk will make sure his next blog post includes bacon | 23:31 | |
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| opengeekv2 | ¿bacon? | 23:34 |
| Stskeeps | mm, bacon | 23:35 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.marions-kochbuch.de/index-bilder/bacon-in-streifen.jpg | 23:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | benson, :P | 23:37 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: btw, scratchbox builder has suddenly stopped allowing TCP connections or resolving hostnames, i have no idea why | 23:42 |
| johnx | ah, exciting | 23:42 |
| johnx | also, I'm not having luck figuring out how to apply RST38h's fix, but I will test first-boot-wizard in a sec | 23:43 |
| Stskeeps | so it will go on the native builder always (which takes ages) | 23:43 |
| * lcuk raises a beer | 23:43 | |
| johnx | ok, I just have one build-x86 to do in a sec anyways | 23:43 |
| Stskeeps | k | 23:43 |
| johnx | lcuk, I'll stick to coffee for now :) | 23:43 |
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| lcuk | thats ok johnx, but you must drink at the summit | 23:44 |
| johnx | lcuk, oh yes. so very much yes | 23:44 |
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| Jake42-2 | johnx say | 23:45 |
| Jake42-2 | that I download php5-mysql | 23:45 |
| Jake42-2 | it has in it 5 files | 23:45 |
| Jake42-2 | I should compile all of them | 23:45 |
| Jake42-2 | ? | 23:45 |
| Jake42-2 | (or may I compile the original php5-mysql.deb ?) | 23:45 |
| lcuk | no, the extra files are just to fill out the archive | 23:45 |
| lcuk | theres a minimum size on zips | 23:45 |
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| timelE61i | lcuk: you going to fosdem? | 23:46 |
| timelE61i | Or, do you know someoe semilocal going there? | 23:46 |
| Jake42-2 | control.tar.gz | 23:47 |
| Jake42-2 | data.tar.gz | 23:47 |
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| Jake42-2 | these ones? | 23:47 |
| timelE61i | I can probably get it couriered via fosdem | 23:47 |
| johnx | Jake42-2, you grabbed a binary debian package | 23:47 |
| johnx | you need source | 23:47 |
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| johnx | back later. makin' coffee and oatmeal | 23:47 |
| Stskeeps | oatmeal! | 23:47 |
| Stskeeps | i can make that in the morning :) | 23:48 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: got a local branch of HAM. Merged in the #2710 patch (no disclaimers) and changed the default to not show them. Will do some testing and then start pushing it up to a branch hosted on launchpad in ~aflegg | 23:50 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: alright :) | 23:50 |
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| Stskeeps | poke me to give you access to builder tomorrow | 23:50 |
| Stskeeps | (and repo) | 23:51 |
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| Jake42-2 | so guys. I found the source code...now among these files...which of them do I need? | 23:53 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: to avoid diverging too far from Nokia's source, since ideally (presumably) the aim would be to get Mer patches merged into the upstream HAM; any tricks for identifying when a package is being installed in Mer vs. Maemo (for the inittab stuff in postinst)? | 23:55 |
| pupnik_ | Last week Intel reported a 23 percent drop in fourth-quarter revenue. | 23:55 |
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| * b-man is frustrated when he realises 75% of gentoo applications refuse to install/compile for ARMv6 | 23:56 | |
| pupnik_ | hah! AMD (NYSE) at $2.00! | 23:57 |
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| lcuk | b-man, like i said, mid 40s | 23:59 |
| b-man | hehe | 23:59 |
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