| so4546546 | oh okay thanks stskeeps | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| b-man | Stskeeps: yes, | 00:00 |
| so4546546 | is that wiki all i would need to do a dual boot with it? | 00:00 |
| b-man | (got disconnected) | 00:00 |
| so4546546 | ive managed to clone my os to internal sd card, so im sure i will be able to get that to work | 00:01 |
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| Stskeeps | so4546546: currently SD card clone makes things a bit difficult :) | 00:01 |
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| so4546546 | what is the format command in the consol? | 00:04 |
| so4546546 | to do low level format in os2008 | 00:04 |
| lcuk | so4546546, you have advanced quickly | 00:04 |
| so4546546 | yeah i suck things like a spunge lol | 00:05 |
| lcuk | you went from being a linux n00b about half hour ago to old hat wanting to reformat the planet | 00:05 |
| lcuk | start by upgrading windows | 00:05 |
| so4546546 | rofl i know | 00:05 |
| LinuxCode | lcuk, looool | 00:05 |
| LinuxCode | upgrade to linux | 00:05 |
| LinuxCode | please | 00:05 |
| so4546546 | well earlier i needed to know how to copy files via ftp or whatever | 00:05 |
| * b-man re-writes some code in merinstaller | 00:05 | |
| benson | Seems it's supposed to run refresh_bootmenu.d, but seems not to have. I wonder if we had the target open, and the fuser on line 156 harikaried the script... | 00:05 |
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| Stskeeps | benson: entirely possible | 00:06 |
| so4546546 | i was using ftp as protocl all i needed to odo was switch to scp or sftp | 00:06 |
| Stskeeps | benson: b-man wrote it btw, i'm sure he'll take patches :) | 00:06 |
| * lcuk just distanced his font code from asking fora point size to holding a cache of selected scales | 00:06 | |
| benson | Well, I' | 00:06 |
| b-man | shure :) | 00:06 |
| * Stskeeps goes back to reading for exam :( | 00:07 | |
| * so4546546 eats | 00:07 | |
| benson | I'm still looking for the real issue, the one that leaves things blank. I'll make a patch when I find that. | 00:07 |
| lcuk | so4546546, install ssh server on your n810. get hold of winscp on your windows machine and tell winscp where on the wifi network your n810 is and start copying | 00:07 |
| * b-man has a semester exam tuesday | 00:07 | |
| so4546546 | already done lcuk | 00:07 |
| so4546546 | ive succeded | 00:07 |
| so4546546 | ive decided not to wait for my files to copy i just tok the memory stick out lol | 00:07 |
| benson | Heh, my semester just started past week. Not even a homework yet. :p | 00:07 |
| lcuk | you pillock, theres a cancel command on the winscp thing you know :) | 00:08 |
| * b-man is in highschool | 00:08 | |
| * lcuk is in hell | 00:08 | |
| b-man | lol | 00:08 |
| * benson is in grad school | 00:09 | |
| so4546546 | found it, mformat :) | 00:09 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, hell being a place with no bacon? | 00:09 |
| lcuk | yes :'( | 00:09 |
| * so4546546 is selling his n810 | 00:09 | |
| b-man | lol | 00:09 |
| so4546546 | XD | 00:09 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, heh, my hell is the north :P | 00:09 |
| lcuk | so4546546, make sure you write on the advert "mmc card corrupted by me" | 00:09 |
| * so4546546 lives up north | 00:09 | |
| * b-man lives in ohio | 00:09 | |
| LinuxCode | any form of schooling is hell | 00:10 |
| LinuxCode | lcuk, lies....plenty of bacon down Sainsburies or Morrisons | 00:10 |
| * b-man is a sophmore | 00:11 | |
| lcuk | that would imply i actually leave the house | 00:11 |
| LinuxCode | lcuk, hahaha | 00:11 |
| lcuk | they dont deliver on weekends | 00:11 |
| lcuk | used to live near an abatuar | 00:11 |
| lcuk | lovely fresh bacon | 00:11 |
| b-man | you really like bacon, huh lcuk? :) | 00:12 |
| lcuk | bacon is better than candy :) | 00:12 |
| LinuxCode | lcuk, they do here | 00:12 |
| LinuxCode | time to move mate ;-p | 00:13 |
| b-man | hehe | 00:13 |
| LinuxCode | away from the countryside | 00:13 |
| lcuk | nahhh, ive founda new source, so fresh it walks into the kitchen | 00:13 |
| * benson wants bacon candy | 00:13 | |
| lcuk | tbh i dont think i could do that | 00:13 |
| b-man | lol | 00:13 |
| * b-man nearly dies laughing | 00:13 | |
| lcuk | i might be able to slice the bacon whilst its still alive | 00:13 |
| lcuk | let it carry on walking around | 00:14 |
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| lcuk | like they do with some forms of sushi | 00:14 |
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| so4546546 | anwyays thanks everyone for the help | 00:15 |
| so4546546 | ttys | 00:15 |
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| b-man | hehe | 00:16 |
| * qwerty12_N800 needs to set anyremote to use mpd. it's so much easier to grab my phone to change the track rather than fumbling with a touchscreen. | 00:18 | |
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| lcuk | qwerty12_N800, cant you use dpad? | 00:19 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, works kinda weird in sonata (qwerty's mpd client of choice) | 00:20 |
| lcuk | fair enough, i uunderstand about the touch thing though | 00:21 |
| lcuk | for things like my remote i want to use the edges to control volume - so i can run along and not need to be in the middle | 00:21 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=258478#post258478 if you want to refer to your artwork and so on being included in a Mer release :) | 00:22 |
| Stskeeps | (or if you want to try out Mer :P) | 00:22 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: well, as we're working together I don't think I shoud scream everywhere that "Behold! I've made a wallpaper for Mer! Yep, that's me!" :) | 00:27 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: hehe ;) | 00:27 |
| Stskeeps | still, it attracts attention :) | 00:27 |
| Stskeeps | and the wallpaper, the logo, the rescue menu :) | 00:27 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: My blog had almost 3k hits this week. So I think I got pretty enough attention :D | 00:29 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 00:29 |
| Stskeeps | but if you're interested in getting a hand with trying out Mer as it is right now on a SD card, you just say :) | 00:29 |
| Stskeeps | at some point | 00:30 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: well, since there are no UI modifications yet, I think I'd wait for them without terroring you with guides :) | 00:31 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: But I'm first in line :) | 00:31 |
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| benson | b-man: got a patch for you | 00:42 |
| b-man | cool :) | 00:42 |
| benson | misplaced that paste-site stskeeps mentioned, though. | 00:42 |
| b-man | pastebin.ca | 00:43 |
| qwerty12_N800 | rafb.net/paste | 00:43 |
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| benson | (Rebooted from NetBSD to Linux, so I have working X server now...) | 00:43 |
| benson | thx. | 00:43 |
| lcuk | wazd, theres lots of folks already trailblazing in front of you :P | 00:44 |
| lcuk | like bill gates, steve ballmer.... LOL | 00:45 |
| b-man | steve jobs ;) | 00:45 |
| benson | OK, so I don't have a patch, I just fatfingered patch and modified version | 00:45 |
| benson | I'll have it in 5. | 00:45 |
| * b-man will be back in 5, watch some tv | 00:46 | |
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| * b-man wonders how funny/terible it would be to have a self-distruc app for windows/linux | 00:52 | |
| Stskeeps | b-man: we are thinking to have the crash dialog on Mer be a cracked LCD | 00:53 |
| b-man | lol | 00:53 |
| lcuk | how many actual cracks will happen when users lob their supposedly broken NIT across the room | 00:54 |
| * qwerty12_N800 imagines the number of people shitting themselves after seeing that | 00:54 | |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: i personally would | 00:54 |
| b-man | lol XD | 00:54 |
| benson | b-man: http://pastebin.ca/1312027 | 00:55 |
| qwerty12_N800 | heh, you've ruined the surprise for me now. bad #maemo :p | 00:55 |
| benson | I *think* that would fix it. But I'm not gonna redo the install just now to check. | 00:55 |
| qwerty12_N800 | benson, unified is so much easier to read | 00:56 |
| benson | I'm lazy. :p | 00:56 |
| benson | Will do next time, though. | 00:56 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hehe :p | 00:56 |
| pupnik_ | lolcats are a positive force in the universe | 00:56 |
| b-man | lol - i allrety have a file with that | 00:57 |
| benson | All 3 fixes? | 00:57 |
| b-man | i'll check | 00:57 |
| benson | some mad swappage between ext2/ext3, missing quotes, and unescaped ${INT... | 00:57 |
| Stskeeps | benson: what does dpkg -l merinstaller say? | 00:58 |
| Stskeeps | btw | 00:58 |
| b-man | ext2 and ext3 are mixed up? | 00:58 |
| benson | Oh, and also missing defines of FST | 00:58 |
| benson | Yes, half-mixed | 00:58 |
| * b-man might ned to do a major rewrite with the installer :( | 00:59 | |
| Stskeeps | b-man: hehe, its called a refactoring | 00:59 |
| Stskeeps | you're getting closer and close :) | 00:59 |
| Stskeeps | normally you go through 4-5 refactorings till you have a stable product :P | 01:00 |
| b-man | hehe | 01:00 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: simple version seems to work fine though | 01:00 |
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| b-man | good :) | 01:00 |
| benson | Stskeeps: http://pastebin.ca/1312034 | 01:01 |
| Stskeeps | k, is most recent | 01:01 |
| b-man | benson; is the deb failing? | 01:02 |
| b-man | because it requires a certain amount of space for icon cache to refresh properly | 01:03 |
| b-man | in postinst | 01:03 |
| benson | No, the deb was fine. Just a glitch in the bootmenu item. | 01:04 |
| b-man | k :) | 01:04 |
| benson | Left modules and filesystem blank. | 01:04 |
| * benson crosses fingers and reboots | 01:05 | |
| * b-man leaves to do some ""refactoring"" with merinstaller and watches some tv | 01:06 | |
| benson | Shiny picture, yay! | 01:06 |
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| benson | Seems everything else works about advanced mode, just the bootmenu stuff. | 01:08 |
| b-man | for a second i thaught you said shitty XD | 01:08 |
| benson | Uh-oh, it wants me to type stuff. :( | 01:08 |
| qwerty12_N800 | h-i-m works | 01:09 |
| * benson hunts USB keyboard. | 01:09 | |
| b-man | first-boot wizard? :) | 01:09 |
| benson | Doesn't seem to. | 01:09 |
| benson | b-man: yep | 01:09 |
| qwerty12_N800 | For me it did | 01:09 |
| benson | It just did now. | 01:09 |
| b-man | does the virtual keyboard pop up? | 01:09 |
| benson | Yeah, maybe I wasn't hitting it right b4 | 01:10 |
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| Stskeeps | seems to work, benson? | 01:17 |
| benson | As much as it's supposed to, I think. | 01:18 |
| benson | I rotated the screen and everything disappeared. | 01:18 |
| StsN800 | yeah, x driver issue | 01:19 |
| benson | Is sshd on by default? | 01:19 |
| StsN800 | yeah, but nm dies with x for some silly reason | 01:19 |
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| benson | OK, so I'll add that to my list of things not to do... | 01:20 |
| StsN800 | hehe | 01:20 |
| StsN800 | xorg had a bug until 2 days ago where backspace on HIM caused it to crash | 01:21 |
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| benson | That's even worse than Diablo, any clue of it was related? | 01:22 |
| StsN800 | doubtful | 01:22 |
| StsN800 | we dont use xomap so | 01:23 |
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| StsN800 | the real nice thing about mer is its a sane unix system, you can use many apps directly without being hildonized | 01:25 |
| StsN800 | it is maemo apis etc but tries to live in hippie coexistence with the rest of the system | 01:27 |
| * b-man installs gnome-terminal in mer to see how it looks | 01:27 | |
| StsN800 | mm, might be libvte problems, but do check | 01:27 |
| b-man | gnome-terminal installs successfuly :) | 01:29 |
| StsN800 | yeah, but does it run?;) | 01:29 |
| * b-man will check ;) | 01:30 | |
| StsN800 | benson, things get interesting when you start apt-getting stuff that was hard to get on maemo:) | 01:36 |
| benson | things will get interesting when I get a command prompt :) I've got something screwy with my network here. | 01:37 |
| StsN800 | hehe | 01:38 |
| StsN800 | yeah, a HIMable xterm or application manager is high on the list | 01:39 |
| benson | Well, I'd appreciate _any_ terminal in the default install; I'll do what it takes to get the keyboard | 01:40 |
| StsN800 | apt-get install roxterm in chroot might do the trick | 01:41 |
| b-man | StsN800; random question, how do you change your nickname on irc? | 01:42 |
| StsN800 | /nick newnick | 01:42 |
| Jaffa | StsN800: Hildon's App Manager with qwerty12_N800 and my patches applied? | 01:43 |
| benson | Is OTG known non-functional? | 01:43 |
| b-man | -testing- | 01:44 |
| StsN800 | Jaffa, ham is in some weird limbo between diablo and fremantle | 01:44 |
| benson | (It could be just glitchiness here.) | 01:44 |
| b-man | nope, did not work :( | 01:44 |
| StsN800 | benson, ought to work | 01:44 |
| StsN800 | johnx uses it | 01:44 |
| StsN800 | otg would work if usbnet not enabled in rescue menu | 01:45 |
| benson | Then probably electro-mech glitchiness here. But I got networking sorted now. | 01:45 |
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| benson | b-man: gnome-terminal status? | 01:46 |
| StsN800 | benson, feel free to document any glitches btw (either in bugs or add on wiki) | 01:46 |
| benson | sure | 01:46 |
| b-man | hold on, i need to boot into mer | 01:47 |
| benson | no rush | 01:47 |
| benson | Just wondered if I should jump for it first, or grab roxterm (or even rxvt) | 01:47 |
| StsN800 | roxterm i prefer | 01:48 |
| StsN800 | btw su should work for root access | 01:48 |
| Jaffa | StsN800: Use the 2.1 branch and ignore the trunk. | 01:50 |
| StsN800 | k | 01:50 |
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| StsN800 | ill look into it | 01:50 |
| Jaffa | It's also moving to git, apparently. I can't remember mvo being clear on where the master was now :-) | 01:51 |
| StsN800 | i used the gitorious one and didn't succeed in compilinng | 01:51 |
| Jaffa | Hang on, I'll check what I had checked out from svn - that built and worked, and is what qwerty12_N800 and I had been patching | 01:52 |
| Jaffa | StsN800: https://garage.maemo.org/svn/hildon-app-mgr/branches/2.1.x | 01:52 |
| StsN800 | checking | 01:57 |
| StsN800 | .. a readme? | 01:58 |
| Jaffa | Oh FFS. | 01:58 |
| Jaffa | It's been entirely moved to git now. | 01:58 |
| * Jaffa mutters things about tool wankery | 01:58 | |
| Jaffa | a) There might be a git branch; b) You could check out r1465 from svn | 01:59 |
| * gnuton have just installed MediaTomb. Listening Mp3 with the N810 via MediaTomb is very Cool! | 02:02 | |
| StsN800 | taking b, git branch requires upstart-dev which we dont have and fremantle doesn't either | 02:02 |
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| StsN800 | dies with HILDON_ICON_SIZE_SMALL | 02:06 |
| Jaffa | Must be being defined in a Hildon header somewhere in diablo | 02:08 |
| StsN800 | libhildon, says mxr | 02:08 |
| Jaffa | http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/libhildon-2.0.4/src/hildon-defines.h#35 | 02:08 |
| Jaffa | Indeed | 02:08 |
| StsN800 | checking fremantle | 02:09 |
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| StsN800 | fair enough, got it to build | 02:20 |
| StsN800 | after some edits | 02:20 |
| Jaffa | Cool. My grid patch seems to be included, but I'm not sure about the disable-legal-warning red-pill setting | 02:21 |
| Jaffa | (which you'll want to patch to default to 1, I imagine ;-)) | 02:21 |
| StsN800 | http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/ham-mer.patch | 02:25 |
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| StsN800 | if you want to package it up for mer, you're welcome | 02:25 |
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| StsN800 | the tar.gz at 0.6 section at wiki can be used as chroot | 02:27 |
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| Jaffa | So should be able to chroot and then just ./configure, make etc. as normal? | 02:27 |
| Jaffa | (or rather, dpkg-buildpackage) | 02:27 |
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| StsN800 | yeah after apt-get build-essential | 02:28 |
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| StsN800 | and dpkg-dev | 02:29 |
| StsN800 | its 'just' a ubuntu deep down | 02:29 |
| Jaffa | What about an armel deb? | 02:30 |
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| StsN800 | if it builds in x86 it usually builds in sb - we submit to builder and try our luck | 02:31 |
| StsN800 | i'll give you access later | 02:31 |
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| StsN800 | x86 is more picky if autoconf and such isnt a build dep | 02:32 |
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| Jaffa | First off, I'm going to fix the breakage I've just done to mud. Then commit that. Then consider bed. Then not go to bed and start playing with mer | 02:32 |
| StsN800 | hehe | 02:32 |
| StsN800 | have fun - there's a virtualbox virtual disk image for trying out too | 02:33 |
| StsN800 | im off to sleep | 02:33 |
| Jaffa | Once I've got the chroot, can I start the desktop with startx? No. I'll need a Xephyr and a start-hildon? ;-) | 02:34 |
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| Stskeeps | mount --bind /tmp /chroot/tmp, start xephyr, export display, start-hildon | 02:35 |
| Stskeeps | should work too | 02:35 |
| Jaffa | Cool. And /proc and /sys, too, at a guess. | 02:36 |
| Stskeeps | yyeah | 02:36 |
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| Jaffa | I'll get something which works and put some instructions next to the download | 02:36 |
| wazd_hp | I was thinking bout menu grid | 02:36 |
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| wazd_hp | and came up with 3x4 layout | 02:36 |
| wazd_hp | http://s59.radikal.ru/i164/0901/e7/74194f8a93f8.jpg | 02:36 |
| b-man | gnome-terminal doesn't work in mer :( | 02:36 |
| Jaffa | wazd_hp: that's quite nice. | 02:36 |
| Jaffa | b-man: tried osso-xterm? | 02:37 |
| wazd_hp | Since current menu sucks and Konttori proved it in my blog) | 02:37 |
| b-man | is it in the repo? | 02:37 |
| Jaffa | b-man: doubt it's in mer's, but I know nothing | 02:37 |
| StsN800 | Jaffa, libvte doesnt play nice with new gtk | 02:37 |
| b-man | btw, ubuntu-help center works in mer, looks verry nice | 02:38 |
| StsN800 | another thing to look at | 02:38 |
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| b-man | i'll upload a screenshot | 02:38 |
| Jaffa | StsN800: ah. damn. | 02:39 |
| StsN800 | i suspect fremantle might have same issues | 02:39 |
| * lcuk has new respect for opengl | 02:40 | |
| Jaffa | wazd_hp: if the mer menu pops down the extended menu, the bezel between it and the icons makes it look a little disconnected. | 02:40 |
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| * Jaffa was thinking about lcuk's question about resizing too. Don't have the drop down left menu reducing the content area, just coming on top of it - then it's not an issue. | 02:41 | |
| wazd_hp | Jaffa: I think it's not end design of this thing :) | 02:41 |
| Jaffa | wazd_hp: fair enough :) | 02:42 |
| wazd_hp | Jaffa:now the main goal is the layout | 02:42 |
| wazd_hp | I like that one cause it can handle even monsters like "numpty physics" :) | 02:45 |
| b-man | StsN800; http://trac.tspre.org/bman/Screenshot1.png - looks nice :) | 02:45 |
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| b-man | lol - center is spelled wrong in the title | 02:53 |
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| Jaffa | b-man: No it's not. | 02:57 |
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| Jaffa | b-man: No it's not. | 02:58 |
| Jaffa | b-man: That's UK English spelling of 'centre' | 02:58 |
| b-man | oh | 02:58 |
| b-man | i did not know that untill i googled it ;p | 02:58 |
| * b-man calls himself an idot | 02:59 | |
| benson | is that the british spelling of idiot? :p | 02:59 |
| Jaffa | :) | 03:00 |
| Jaffa | Hmm. Segfault when starting Hildon in the mer chroot. | 03:00 |
| b-man | edit: idiot -- sorry :p -- not thinking straight atm | 03:00 |
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| wazd | goddamn ISP, I hate you! | 03:19 |
| wazd | http://s43.radikal.ru/i099/0901/5b/1d7f35bb9bc2.jpg <- technical info bout layout :) | 03:20 |
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| benson | wazd: top row, left ~half: is running tasks? | 03:23 |
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| wazd | benson: yep | 03:25 |
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| sisto | hello! | 03:28 |
| wazd | sisto: hey there) | 03:28 |
| sisto | wazd: how u doing? | 03:28 |
| wazd | sisto: going to sleep actually, it's 4:30 am in here) | 03:29 |
| sisto | wazd: lol, you are from Russia, right? | 03:29 |
| sisto | Moscow/ | 03:30 |
| sisto | ? | 03:30 |
| wazd | sisto: yep) | 03:30 |
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| sisto | Uruguay here | 03:30 |
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| wazd | sisto: whoa, pretty far) | 03:31 |
| sisto | yep... i guess it must be pretty cold over there now | 03:31 |
| wazd | sisto: well, for guy from Uruguay it's definitely cold in here :D | 03:32 |
| wazd | sisto: we have -5 C now | 03:32 |
| sisto | wazd: yes that's pretty cold! it never snows here. the coldest temperature we can get in winter is around 0 C | 03:34 |
| sisto | but it's summer right now | 03:34 |
| wazd | sisto: happy people) | 03:34 |
| * wazd totally jealous | 03:35 | |
| sisto | means I can't snowboard though :( | 03:35 |
| sisto | or ice skate | 03:35 |
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| sisto | i guess I'm jealous too! | 03:36 |
| wazd | sisto: I was at the ice on friday :) | 03:36 |
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| wazd | sisto: it was first time when the weather was comfortable for skating) | 03:37 |
| sisto | I went her today: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Punta_del_Este | 03:38 |
| wazd | sisto: no snowshowers or -20 C :) | 03:38 |
| sisto | but the weather wasn't very good to go to the beach... too windy | 03:38 |
| wazd | sisto: nice place) | 03:39 |
| sisto | I guess those kinds of days are for staying inside and drink vodka by the fire :) | 03:39 |
| sisto | *fireplace | 03:40 |
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| wazd | vodka is for -40 :D | 03:40 |
| wazd | and without any fire) | 03:40 |
| sisto | i guess vodka and fire shouldn't mix | 03:41 |
| sisto | bad idea | 03:41 |
| wazd | sisto: oh! I can show you my plac) | 03:42 |
| wazd | place | 03:42 |
| wazd | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Moscow | 03:43 |
| wazd | sisto: at the bottom | 03:43 |
| wazd | sisto: Paveletskiy tower photo\ | 03:43 |
| sisto | ok | 03:43 |
| wazd | sisto: I'm living in 100 meters from it :) | 03:44 |
| sisto | nice neighborhood! | 03:44 |
| wazd | yep) | 03:45 |
| Jaffa | Oh, I'm an idiot. I'm getting segfaults from the mer chroot as it's x86, and I'm x86_64 :-O | 03:46 |
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| sisto | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Montevideo | 03:46 |
| sisto | first photo (Plaza Independencia) | 03:46 |
| sisto | the place i used to work | 03:47 |
| sisto | until we moved to another neighborhood | 03:47 |
| wazd | and that buildings are on the other riverside, but still very close to me :) http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sk331.jpg | 03:47 |
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| wazd | well, I gtg to sleep, too late( | 03:49 |
| wazd | c ya guys | 03:50 |
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| sisto | does anyone know a post-it notes app for maemo that can sync to a desktop post-it app? | 03:53 |
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| Toba | anyone else experiencing nano segfaulting on search and messing up the shell? | 04:13 |
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| * Jaffa beds | 04:19 | |
| Debian | g'night | 04:19 |
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| * b-man is messing with /nick | 04:20 | |
| b-man | :) | 04:20 |
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| benson | B-MAN: more aliases than a pro con-artist. | 04:22 |
| benson | :p | 04:22 |
| B-MAN | hehe | 04:23 |
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| * benson is about to give up for the night. | 04:23 | |
| benson | Been trying to build personal-launcher for Mer | 04:23 |
| b-man | cool, eny luck? | 04:24 |
| benson | Not really. | 04:24 |
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| benson | I finally got bothered to setup swap, after I finallygot it to compile (and it ran out of mem.) | 04:24 |
| b-man | hmm | 04:25 |
| benson | Then once I got swap, the compile failed right affter where it ran out before. | 04:25 |
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| benson | It really wants it's scratchbox. | 04:25 |
| benson | And I'm totally not friends with GNU Auto**** | 04:26 |
| b-man | hehe | 04:26 |
| benson | So I think I'll let it sit overnight. | 04:26 |
| benson | BTW, Midori runs quite nicely in Mer, h-i-m and all. :) The OS is a success. | 04:27 |
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| b-man | hm, btw, did you install xscreensaver in mer for that matrix screenshot? | 04:28 |
| benson|away | No, that was cmatrix | 04:28 |
| benson|away | It runs in a terminal emulator. | 04:28 |
| benson|away | Though xscreensaver probably works fine; I know xmatrix looks sharp under Diablo! | 04:29 |
| * b-man wonders if xscreensaver would do well in mer... nah | 04:29 | |
| benson|away | Have you seen qwerty12's xsacmon? | 04:30 |
| b-man | no | 04:30 |
| benson|away | It runs xscreensaver only when the tablet is plugged in, so you don' | 04:30 |
| benson|away | t eat batteries. | 04:30 |
| benson|away | Makes me very happy. :D | 04:30 |
| b-man | sweet :) | 04:30 |
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| LinuxHack3r | Hello everyone! Thinking of a nokia 800/810. Just wondering...how good can I get of an ssh client for either? | 06:02 |
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| Mousey | nokia 180 | 06:05 |
| Mousey | and the ssh client is OpenSSH if you don't want DropBear. so | 06:05 |
| Mousey | as good as any linux box | 06:05 |
| Mousey | why.. it IS a linux box | 06:05 |
| Mousey | =) | 06:05 |
| Mousey | seriously | 06:06 |
| Mousey | it's good stuff | 06:06 |
| Mousey | get the 810 tho | 06:06 |
| Mousey | not the 800 | 06:06 |
| Mousey | OR SUFFER the LACK of HARDWARE KEYBOARD | 06:06 |
| LinuxHack3r | I am planning on it Mousey. I love the look of the device. Just don't like the slightly higher than iPod Touch pricetag. | 06:08 |
| Mousey | oh, it's a worse touchscreen than the ipod touch, but it's INFINITLEY better of a device, it's not walled in like your average apple, its 800x480, WAY better than apple, it's got a hw keyboard, it's WAY more configurable, and if you write a better app than is supplied, NOBODY will DENY you the sale/distribution of that app | 06:09 |
| Mousey | oh, and the speakers are WAY better | 06:09 |
| Mousey | way better speakers than you'd expect | 06:09 |
| ljp | and its made by Nokia :) | 06:10 |
| Mousey | well, there's that i guess | 06:10 |
| ljp | ok, I might be slightly biased | 06:10 |
| Mousey | but don't let that deter you! =F | 06:10 |
| Mousey | seriously | 06:10 |
| Mousey | i could care less about LITERALLY EVERYTHING nokia makes, but the n810 is the most useful laptop replacement i've ever used | 06:11 |
| johnx_ | Mousey++ | 06:11 |
| Mousey | i use it a LOT more than my eee, and i use my main notebook a lot less | 06:11 |
| Mousey | i barely even carry a notebook anymore | 06:11 |
| Mousey | oh | 06:11 |
| LinuxHack3r | Mousey: But the touchscreen is by far usable right? and I like HW keyboards. Plus I suppose that their bluetooth actually lets you do stuff ;) | 06:12 |
| Mousey | another downside (over the n800) is that it's a MicroSD slot (where the n800 is two full sized SD slots), but i put a 16GB microSD card in, and it's awesome | 06:12 |
| Mousey | yea, the touchscreen is ENTIRELY usable | 06:12 |
| Mousey | entirely | 06:12 |
| sisto | isn't it mini sd???? | 06:12 |
| LinuxHack3r | I think so. | 06:13 |
| Mousey | apple has all the mindshare with their multi-touch, and their GL-ES.. and it'd be nice if the n810 had it | 06:13 |
| Mousey | yah, mini-sd | 06:13 |
| Mousey | but i still have a microsd card in it, cuz mini doesn't come in >4 | 06:13 |
| Mousey | wait,, >6 | 06:13 |
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| johnx_ | LinuxHack3r, yup. can't speak for the n810 but even the n800's onscreen is faster for me than typing on an iphone. and yes, it's real bluetooth. we even have software to play nice with a wiimote :) | 06:13 |
| LinuxHack3r | So I can transfer photos, music, and videos, even more, over bluetooth to and from my ubuntu, can't i? | 06:13 |
| ljp | yep | 06:14 |
| sisto | Mousey: that sucks | 06:14 |
| johnx_ | bt is a little slow for that ... | 06:14 |
| sisto | (mini sd sucks) | 06:14 |
| LinuxHack3r | sisto: why? | 06:14 |
| sisto | because of what mousey said | 06:14 |
| Mousey | sisto: it might suck, but it takes a 16GB MicroSD card, so i don't really care | 06:14 |
| Mousey | 16GB!! | 06:15 |
| Mousey | trust me, for the n810, that's way more than plenty | 06:15 |
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| sisto | micro sd is cool though | 06:15 |
| LinuxHack3r | So where is the best place for me buy one/ | 06:15 |
| sisto | amazon? | 06:15 |
| Mousey | LinuxHack3r: pay as little as you can, another very unimpressive thing about the n810 is the price.. but it's worth it, imho. i swear, i didn't use my notebook for a month when i got mine | 06:15 |
| Mousey | and it's crazy hackable.. and there's a vibrant community hacking on it | 06:16 |
| sisto | very cheap here: http://www.jr.com/nokia/pe/NOK_NOKIAN810/ | 06:16 |
| sisto | 250 bucks | 06:16 |
| Mousey | oh, LinuxHack3r and maemo is debian-based | 06:16 |
| sisto | free shipping | 06:16 |
| Mousey | so there!! HA! =P | 06:16 |
| LinuxHack3r | sisto: Whoa! that is. But...but....never heard of the site...and their out of stock. | 06:17 |
| Mousey | so you can apt-get install <stuff> | 06:17 |
| Mousey | take THAT ipod touch!! | 06:17 |
| sisto | it's in new york right near the brooklyn bridge | 06:17 |
| sisto | i purchased stuff on their store in the past | 06:17 |
| Mousey | has a for sale sign in the window? | 06:17 |
| sisto | they are good | 06:17 |
| LinuxHack3r | sisto: So their legit? and not fakes or something? | 06:17 |
| ljp | new york.. where's that? | 06:17 |
| Mousey | used to be new amsterdam | 06:17 |
| ljp | ohh ok | 06:18 |
| johnx_ | hasn't j&r been around for the better part of the 20th century? | 06:18 |
| johnx_ | not quite it seems...but yes, they're legit | 06:18 |
| sisto | they are legit yes | 06:18 |
| Mousey | more importantly, they're outta stock! ;_; | 06:18 |
| sisto | oh bummer | 06:18 |
| johnx_ | legitimately out of stock though | 06:19 |
| LinuxHack3r | sisto: Any more magic places? | 06:19 |
| sisto | just a sec | 06:19 |
| johnx_ | hit up google, find a good price, ask us if it's legit :) | 06:19 |
| sisto | http://www.mobilecityonline.com/wireless/store/search.asp?keywords=n810&x=0&y=0 | 06:19 |
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| sisto | look it up in best buy too | 06:19 |
| sisto | target.com ? | 06:19 |
| johnx_ | tigerdirect for $350 | 06:20 |
| sisto | btw i never purchased on that site (mobilecity) | 06:20 |
| sisto | try newegg.com | 06:21 |
| sisto | and compare prices | 06:21 |
| LinuxHack3r | newegg...nothing... | 06:21 |
| LinuxHack3r | tigers not bad. | 06:21 |
| sisto | you can also try http://www.google.com/products | 06:21 |
| sisto | this one looks too cheap to be legit: http://www.justmywireless.com/product_info.php?products_id=389 | 06:22 |
| LinuxHack3r | sisto: if jr.com is as reputable as you say...I'll gladly pay them the money. | 06:23 |
| sisto | LinuxHack3r: i would wait to be on stock though | 06:24 |
| Proteous | tigerdirect is not known for good customer support | 06:25 |
| sisto | *for it | 06:25 |
| Mousey | if you order from tiger direct, CALL THEM, don't do it online, imho | 06:25 |
| LinuxHack3r | sisto: They supposedly do a thing where you buy now...they charge when they get it. not a bad idea if they are hard to keep in stock at %50 the price. | 06:27 |
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| sisto | LinuxHack3r: sounds like a good idea. | 06:28 |
| sisto | how long does it take till you get it? you should ask them | 06:28 |
| LinuxHack3r | what do you mean? dunno...but I'll find out. *bookmarks. | 06:29 |
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| LinuxHack3r | milos_: sisto So this device...it has a filesystem doesn't it? like /etc, /bin, etc? | 06:31 |
| johnx_ | LinuxHack3r, yup. it's a real linux device | 06:31 |
| LinuxHack3r | So I've gotta get one. | 06:32 |
| sisto | i mean... how long till it comes into stock and they ship it to you | 06:32 |
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| johnx_ | Nokia even hosts the app you install to get unrestricted root access :) | 06:32 |
| milos_ | LinuxHack3r, you probably changed me with somebody? | 06:33 |
| LinuxHack3r | milos_: Yep...sorry. | 06:33 |
| LinuxHack3r | johnx_: So that is easy I presume? | 06:33 |
| johnx_ | yup. that and most other app installs are easy | 06:34 |
| johnx_ | there is some beta software floating around that can be a little less than straightforward to install though | 06:34 |
| LinuxHack3r | sisto: The big question...say I do this. I use google checkout and click the buy now button for it at 250bucks. I wonder what'll happen if it goes off sale say tommorow, and then they get it the next day. Will the charge me 250 or the full price I wonder. | 06:35 |
| johnx_ | if they decide not to honor the sale price, I think they'd refund you rather than charge more, but I'm not sure | 06:36 |
| LinuxHack3r | If they're legit..then sure..that makes sense. You could always..I suppose..cancel/return an order. | 06:36 |
| sisto | you could call them and ask: http://www.jr.com/information/contactUs.jsp | 06:37 |
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| LinuxHack3r | sisto: One last question: How does tab work? | 06:41 |
| sisto | LinuxHack3r: tab? | 06:42 |
| LinuxHack3r | on the 810...how does tab work? | 06:42 |
| LinuxHack3r | sisto: the tab button..like to complete stuff in terminal. tab button on keyboard? | 06:42 |
| Mousey | LinuxHack3r: there's no hardware key for it | 06:42 |
| Mousey | BY DEFAULT | 06:42 |
| Mousey | but | 06:42 |
| sisto | i don't have a maemo device yet | 06:42 |
| Mousey | i remmaped mine | 06:42 |
| sisto | but i'll get one soon | 06:43 |
| LinuxHack3r | Mousey: meaning what? how do you do it? how hard is it to remap? | 06:43 |
| Mousey | for some bizzare reason, Nokia thought it would be an awesome idea to have a function key for Yen, Euro, AND sterling! | 06:43 |
| Mousey | fortunately they're all in awesome places for remapping | 06:43 |
| Mousey | it's very easy to do | 06:43 |
| LinuxHack3r | what do you mean? function key? | 06:44 |
| Mousey | there's a fn key, like for number and punctuation and such | 06:44 |
| Mousey | it's a damn small keyboard | 06:44 |
| Mousey | there's no | by default either | 06:44 |
| Mousey | that one's extra stupid cuz it's like 2 menus deep to get to | 06:44 |
| Mousey | but remaps to the sterling (british pound) key quite nicely | 06:44 |
| LinuxHack3r | Mousey: so their is a key for sterling...an actual key..that I can remap to tab? | 06:45 |
| Mousey | yah | 06:45 |
| LinuxHack3r | *buying. | 06:45 |
| Mousey | it's fn - ; | 06:45 |
| Mousey | fn - m is the euro symbol [which i remapped to `] | 06:45 |
| Mousey | and fn -z is the yen symbol | 06:45 |
| Mousey | which i remapped to tab | 06:46 |
| Mousey | which is excellent because z is right above fn, so it's one stroke of the thumb to get a tab | 06:46 |
| Mousey | there are other ways around the limitation | 06:46 |
| LinuxHack3r | Mousey: sounds ok. | 06:46 |
| Mousey | yah, overall they're minor annoyances really. overcomeable ones thankfully | 06:47 |
| Mousey | the terminal has softkeys for specials which are remappable, so i've mapped []{} there | 06:48 |
| LinuxHack3r | softkeys? | 06:48 |
| Mousey | it's not as bad as it could be i think, i wish someone who actually used the command line designed the keyboard tho | 06:48 |
| Mousey | there's a "bar" at the bottom of the terminal program for keys which can be mapped | 06:48 |
| Mousey | Tab is one of the defaults | 06:49 |
| Mousey | i prefer a hardware tab | 06:49 |
| LinuxHack3r | oh...gotcha. so is this thing normall "titanium"? Just wondering...deal seems too good to be true. | 06:49 |
| LinuxHack3r | before I click the last button...what do you honestly think? http://www.jr.com/nokia/pe/NOK_NOKIAN810/ | 06:49 |
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| Mousey | i can't speak to where you'd buy it. but i can speak for the device. it's nice to have a celphone company make a computer so small, cuz it's pretty sturdy and well thought out hardware, like a celphone should be.. only a computer.. not a phone | 06:50 |
| Mousey | ^_^ | 06:50 |
| LinuxHack3r | What I mean...all those specs and photos check out? | 06:51 |
| Mousey | oh | 06:51 |
| * Mousey clicks | 06:51 | |
| Mousey | the specs look right | 06:51 |
| Mousey | is it titanium? i donno | 06:52 |
| LinuxHack3r | titanium color is what I think they mean. I think they have a black as well? | 06:52 |
| Mousey | oh | 06:52 |
| Mousey | yah, that's the wimax edition | 06:52 |
| Mousey | waste of money, imho | 06:52 |
| Mousey | they could put a better gps receiver in for all that nonesense | 06:52 |
| Mousey | or hell, a g3 radio, or maybe a goddamn regular sd slot | 06:53 |
| Mousey | oh, another thing, it's MicroUSB (not miniUSB) | 06:53 |
| LinuxHack3r | but but but...the wimax is better than the standard...no? | 06:53 |
| Mousey | if it EXISTED, sure | 06:53 |
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| Mousey | when i can go to Fry's and pick myself up a nice d-link/linksys wimax router, i'll give a damn | 06:53 |
| Mousey | but as long as somebody's asking me to pay to use 802.16, they can suck it | 06:54 |
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| doc|home | d-link sucks, avoid | 06:54 |
| LinuxHack3r | what I'm saying..that thing I just payed 250 bucks for...it'll work with wifi and stuff, right? it ISN'T the wiimax, is it? | 06:54 |
| Mousey | doc|home: not exactly the point. but ya, iagree | 06:54 |
| Mousey | doesn't look like the wimax edition, but the only *I* could tell is the keyb is black | 06:54 |
| Mousey | if the keyb is silver, it's the regular n810 | 06:55 |
| Mousey | either way 250 is a great price | 06:55 |
| LinuxHack3r | ok...you had me scared there for a second. | 06:55 |
| LinuxHack3r | yah, that's the wimax edition.........waste of money, imho.......... | 06:55 |
| Mousey | i hate buying stuff on the interwebs, i'd be more worried about the transaction than the actual device | 06:55 |
| Mousey | i mean the wimax part is a waste of money on nokia's part cuz they coulda done other cooler shit than bank on some non-existant buzzwordwhoring | 06:56 |
| Mousey | if you DO wind up with the wimax edition, you're still good | 06:56 |
| Mousey | arguably better | 06:57 |
| LinuxHack3r | Oh..gotcha...thanks. | 06:57 |
| Mousey | who knows | 06:57 |
| LinuxHack3r | ahh...lets see. I took paypal to create a virtual visa..then went through google...who pays jr.com. It's !gotta work. | 06:57 |
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| LinuxHack3r | sisto: Well..just tried it...now lets see how long to wait... | 06:59 |
| fireun | Mousey: you dont think its nokias way of investing in a potential technology that might play in the cellular provider market? | 06:59 |
| sisto | LinuxHack3r: yey! :) | 07:00 |
| fireun | thats what I see of wimax | 07:00 |
| Mousey | it'd be a better investment to sell some wimax routers to ME | 07:00 |
| Mousey | as generic hardware | 07:00 |
| LinuxHack3r | sisto: I just hope jr.com pulls through within a week. | 07:00 |
| LinuxHack3r | and that they only charge 250 | 07:00 |
| Mousey | fsck sprint and making me pay for something i can get myself | 07:00 |
| LinuxHack3r | and that it is an actual nokia810 | 07:00 |
| fireun | mousey: the range of wimax doesnt play into consumer use | 07:00 |
| LinuxHack3r | if those all work, sisto, male or female, I love you! | 07:00 |
| fireun | excluding the occasional hardware nerd | 07:00 |
| Mousey | i'm a ham radio operator, i need a license, i'll get one | 07:00 |
| Mousey | and besides, that's the death knell for wimax right there | 07:01 |
| fireun | exactly | 07:01 |
| fireun | what is the deathnell? | 07:01 |
| Mousey | wifi was successful -because- it's available to anyone | 07:01 |
| Mousey | wimax is just another scam to indenture networks | 07:01 |
| fireun | there are network overlaps that mean it wont actually be a major concern for the consumer | 07:01 |
| sisto | LinuxHack3r: lol | 07:01 |
| fireun | it'll just mean better coverage for their <insert hardware gadget> | 07:02 |
| LinuxHack3r | I hate anticipations. | 07:02 |
| Mousey | LinuxHack3r: me too | 07:02 |
| fireun | I love anticipation | 07:02 |
| Mousey | LinuxHack3r: if you hack linux tho, you'll love this box | 07:02 |
| fireun | much more satisfying than cheap satisfaction | 07:02 |
| sisto | i have to wait till the end of february to get one :I | 07:02 |
| fireun | I have to wait till summer for more Mad Men | 07:03 |
| sisto | mad men? i only saw season one | 07:03 |
| LinuxHack3r | Mousey: I'm going to start blogging again. As you can see, linuxhack3r.com is outdated. But now I can post from my nokia, when I have time at work at school, and have lots to blog about! | 07:03 |
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| Mousey | heh | 07:04 |
| Mousey | yah, i use mine for blogging, but mostly for web administration of game servers =) | 07:04 |
| sisto | has anyone come across a maemo "post-it" notes app which can sync to a desktop counterpart? | 07:04 |
| LinuxHack3r | that's cool. Expecially if you only have one desktop at home, and when gaming, you need to do something. I'll love it because I screw up linux a lot...and running up and down the stairs to access my server downstairs just to use irssi gets old. | 07:05 |
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| sisto | one use i will probably give it is as an e-book reader | 07:07 |
| LinuxHack3r | Perhaps I'll do this: Stay on this channel and google and such until the device arrives. That way I'll know everything possible when it gets here ;) | 07:07 |
| LinuxHack3r | sisto: I saw that..pdf's and stuff too. | 07:07 |
| greenmanspirit_ | i am using the rtcomm beta stuff for presence so that i can connect to aim, recently it has been showing two or three copies of all my contacts, any idea why and how to fix it | 07:07 |
| LinuxHack3r | it is....minisd? or micrsd? or what? I'm confussed. | 07:07 |
| LinuxHack3r | greenmanspirit_: pidgin works on this thing, no? | 07:07 |
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| LinuxHack3r | but...the 810 has 2gb internal doesn't it! | 07:08 |
| *** b-man|n800 is now known as Firefox | 07:08 | |
| greenmanspirit_ | linuxhack3r, it does but i dont believe pidgin makes the led blink like presence | 07:09 |
| LinuxHack3r | led blink like presence? I just bought mine. 5 minutes ago. Now I'm patiently AWAITING its arrival. | 07:09 |
| *** Firefox is now known as FireFox | 07:11 | |
| LinuxHack3r | Firefox is now known as FireFox | 07:11 |
| FireFox | hehe | 07:12 |
| * FireFox is really b-man | 07:12 | |
| Proteous | sure sure | 07:12 |
| FireFox | :) | 07:12 |
| LinuxHack3r | So these things really get that good battery life Mousey sisto? | 07:13 |
| Mousey | depends | 07:13 |
| Mousey | i can go thru a charge in 8 hour or 4-5 days, depending | 07:14 |
| LinuxHack3r | at least that many? that's good, I think. | 07:14 |
| sisto | i was just reading that... | 07:14 |
| sisto | it said it depends on the usage | 07:14 |
| LinuxHack3r | sisto: 800x400. That's good...I think. | 07:15 |
| Mousey | 800x480 | 07:15 |
| Mousey | compare it to the ipod touch | 07:15 |
| sisto | 480x320? | 07:15 |
| LinuxHack3r | I think so. So it's really good. android and mac os leapard on 810. That's odd. | 07:16 |
| sisto | mac os? that's impossible isn't it? | 07:16 |
| Mousey | i tried android on mine.. unimpressed | 07:16 |
| LinuxHack3r | dunno... | 07:16 |
| LinuxHack3r | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smImzo6qCQ4&feature=related | 07:17 |
| LinuxHack3r | But I would certainly think so. | 07:17 |
| Mousey | i call shenanigans | 07:17 |
| LinuxHack3r | My guess is a themed linux? | 07:17 |
| Mousey | vnc? | 07:18 |
| greenmanspirit_ | i dont have my broom for shenanigans | 07:18 |
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| Mousey | black borders on each side? | 07:18 |
| Mousey | VNC! | 07:18 |
| LinuxHack3r | Would it really be able to do that? | 07:19 |
| sisto | you can get ubuntu or debian on it though | 07:19 |
| Mousey | oh, and no hardware acceleration on the n810? total fakery | 07:19 |
| Mousey | yah, there's some debian (read: deblet) heads in here | 07:19 |
| sisto | mac os on arm? | 07:19 |
| Mousey | but that dude is faking the fake | 07:19 |
| Mousey | it's gotta be vnc | 07:19 |
| FireFox | b-man | 07:20 |
| *** FireFox is now known as b-man | 07:20 | |
| sisto | is b-man for brian? | 07:20 |
| b-man | b-man or brian | 07:21 |
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| b-man | (forgot to put /nick ;p) | 07:21 |
| LinuxHack3r | So what's this thing come with? | 07:22 |
| Mousey | ? | 07:22 |
| Mousey | it comes with INTERNETS! | 07:22 |
| LinuxHack3r | Mousey: headphones, chargers, stylus, some sorta small case? | 07:23 |
| Mousey | oy | 07:23 |
| Mousey | that's about right | 07:23 |
| Mousey | no usb-charging | 07:23 |
| Mousey | another popular gripe | 07:23 |
| b-man | sisto, how did you know my name btw? :) | 07:23 |
| Mousey | but i don't care | 07:23 |
| LinuxHack3r | Mousey: so you gotta plug it up to teh wall? | 07:24 |
| sisto | there's a b-man on extra life radio | 07:24 |
| Mousey | LinuxHack3r: it's a standard nokia battery, and a standard $12 charger you can get anywhere | 07:24 |
| sisto | and his name is brian | 07:24 |
| b-man | ??? 0_o | 07:24 |
| sisto | http://www.myextralife.com/?page_id=5954 | 07:24 |
| Mousey | >_> | 07:25 |
| LinuxHack3r | Mousey: but it *should come with a charger, right? | 07:25 |
| * Mousey makes a note, all b-men are brians | 07:25 | |
| Mousey | LinuxHack3r: a wall one yea.. i'm yet to find one that charges a standalone batter | 07:25 |
| Mousey | y | 07:25 |
| b-man | lol | 07:25 |
| Mousey | but i've never looked either | 07:25 |
| LinuxHack3r | Mousey: Oh. Ok. I think I'm going to get off. Perhaps I'll have an email sitting in my inbox either tommorow or the next day explaining to me what is going on. | 07:26 |
| Mousey | i'll look for one when i go to buy my second/additional battery. i figure the longer i wait, the more likely it'll be to exist | 07:26 |
| Mousey | yah, all we're gonna do here is tell you how good the sex is, and all you get to do is watch | 07:26 |
| Mousey | that's no fun | 07:26 |
| LinuxHack3r | One last question though, if a case is nessessary, where should I get one? which model? | 07:26 |
| Mousey | (unless that's your thing) | 07:26 |
| Mousey | i donno. comes with a nice, easy-to-lose leather one | 07:26 |
| Mousey | and by nice i mean, good enough | 07:27 |
| LinuxHack3r | so it doesn't scratch up unless you try to? | 07:27 |
| * b-man is thinking of changing his offuFireFox | 07:29 | |
| b-man | ahhh!!! stupid keyboard!! | 07:29 |
| sisto | i read it's outside is made of brushed metal so it shouldn't be very easy to scratch | 07:30 |
| sisto | the screen is probably another story | 07:30 |
| LinuxHack3r | who knows..just don't drop it. | 07:30 |
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| * b-man is thinking of changing his offical nickname to IceFox... sounds cooler | 07:34 | |
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| slonopotamus | yee-ha! | 08:46 |
| slonopotamus | 0-day warez! | 08:46 |
| slonopotamus | hot! fresh! gentoo chroot on n8x0! | 08:47 |
| slonopotamus | http://slonopotamus.org/gentoo-on-n8x0 | 08:47 |
| slonopotamus | ;) | 08:47 |
| Meiz_n810 | heh | 08:47 |
| Meiz_n810 | is it better than debian based o-ses?? | 08:48 |
| slonopotamus | it depends ;) | 08:49 |
| Meiz_n810 | i mean is it faster? | 08:49 |
| Meiz_n810 | concrats btw :P | 08:49 |
| slonopotamus | i'll be happy to run any benchmarks you'll provide ;) | 08:49 |
| slonopotamus | it should be faster because it uses all available cpu-specific optimizations | 08:49 |
| slonopotamus | and newer gcc | 08:50 |
| Mousey | uh | 08:50 |
| slonopotamus | however gentoo has its specifics | 08:50 |
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| slonopotamus | the most important one is source-based package manager | 08:51 |
| Mousey | and "emerge upgrade" is gonna get old on a 400MHz proc | 08:51 |
| Mousey | ^_^ | 08:51 |
| slonopotamus | hmm | 08:52 |
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| slonopotamus | Mousey | 08:52 |
| Mousey | slonopotamus: | 08:52 |
| Mousey | OS WARS!!! | 08:52 |
| slonopotamus | take your maemo and upgrade libc to latest release. i'll count how long it will take. | 08:52 |
| * Mousey ignites flamethrower! | 08:52 | |
| Mousey | oh yea? you'll never recoup in optimizations what you spend in compile time! | 08:53 |
| Mousey | ^_^ | 08:53 |
| * Mousey readies for next volly | 08:53 | |
| slonopotamus | hehe ;) i can configure distcc with faster machines | 08:53 |
| Mousey | ehe, my distcc machines are too busy transcoding movies for maemo! | 08:54 |
| * Mousey reloads! | 08:54 | |
| slonopotamus | hmm... i'm watching movies without transcoding thanks to my optimizations ;) | 08:54 |
| sisto | lol | 08:55 |
| slonopotamus | anyway. now i have access to tons of software from gentoo repos. and i don't have to hack'n'repackage for maemo | 08:56 |
| slonopotamus | maybe you don't need that. i do. | 08:57 |
| sisto | strike 2? | 08:57 |
| sisto | Mousey: ? | 08:57 |
| Mousey | oh, sory, was in another channel | 08:58 |
| Mousey | bah, you win. gentoo rulez over maemo. emerge update every day, and keep that distcc farm going, it's all worth it, i'm sure | 08:59 |
| sisto | boring | 09:01 |
| slonopotamus | :) | 09:01 |
| pupnik_ | you do not have a faster version of mplayer | 09:01 |
| pupnik_ | and typical movies do not play back at full fps on a N8x0 | 09:02 |
| slonopotamus | pupnik_, i don't ;) actually maemo mplayer is fast enough to play regular 700mb/1.4gb avi movie | 09:02 |
| slonopotamus | at least with 'performance' governor | 09:02 |
| slonopotamus | Mousey, you don't update maemo every day. because there are no updates :) | 09:03 |
| Mousey | depends what you install | 09:04 |
| Mousey | and what's so bad about no updates? | 09:04 |
| Mousey | no updates == less work == longer device/flash ram lifetime | 09:04 |
| slonopotamus | you don't have to update gentoo in that case | 09:04 |
| Mousey | hahahaha | 09:04 |
| Mousey | that's a good one =) | 09:04 |
| slonopotamus | i wonder why maemo has so much outdated kernel | 09:05 |
| Mousey | pupnik_: the video card won't do better than 25fps anyway, who cares how optimized mplayer is? | 09:05 |
| pupnik_ | movies are still 24fps | 09:05 |
| Mousey | i donno what movies you watch | 09:06 |
| Mousey | i use liqbase to change my cpu performance | 09:07 |
| Mousey | wow "power save" is really slow | 09:08 |
| slonopotamus | so? nobody is happy? :( | 09:10 |
| Mousey | how do i change my cpufreq from the command line? | 09:11 |
| * Mousey search for a /sys directory | 09:11 | |
| Mousey | i wonder how the tablet would handle "cat mem > /sys/power/state" | 09:12 |
| Mousey | will i brick it? or will it manifest AWESOME ACPI GOODNESS | 09:12 |
| slonopotamus | echo performance > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor | 09:12 |
| slonopotamus | try ;) | 09:13 |
| Mousey | ah ha! | 09:16 |
| * Mousey cats it instead | 09:16 | |
| slonopotamus | hm | 09:16 |
| slonopotamus | why cat? | 09:16 |
| slonopotamus | echo | 09:17 |
| Mousey | cat! | 09:17 |
| slonopotamus | echo | 09:17 |
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| Mousey | cat! | 09:17 |
| slonopotamus | cat mem == read from file named 'mem'. i don't think you have it | 09:17 |
| Mousey | oh, what i really want is scaling_available_governors | 09:17 |
| * Mousey cats that instead | 09:17 | |
| slonopotamus | ok. first do echo 'mem' > mem ;) then cat it | 09:17 |
| Mousey | there is no mem in this directory | 09:18 |
| Mousey | silly rabbit | 09:18 |
| Mousey | i wonder what the "null" cpu governer is | 09:18 |
| slonopotamus | hehe | 09:19 |
| * Mousey echos "conservative" into scaling_governer | 09:19 | |
| Mousey | yay! | 09:19 |
| Mousey | i <3 conservative | 09:19 |
| slonopotamus | null will do nothing | 09:20 |
| Mousey | screw bursty spikes pegging my cpu in ondemand.. if u want cycles, you gotta WORK for 'rm | 09:20 |
| Mousey | 'em, even | 09:20 |
| slonopotamus | you may still change cpu freq while using null governor | 09:21 |
| slonopotamus | null == dear kernel, do not control cpu speed, i'll do that myself. | 09:22 |
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| Mousey | a girl? | 09:28 |
| Mousey | on MY internets? | 09:28 |
| * Mousey suspects FBI agents | 09:28 | |
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| Mousey | slonopotamus: cat before you echo.. it's look before you leap | 09:29 |
| Mousey | aah, null == userdefined | 09:30 |
| Mousey | i should have guess that by a lack of userdefined | 09:30 |
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| * slonopotamus posted announce on itt | 09:36 | |
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| slonopotamus | have anyone ever seed fauxmight online? ;) | 09:41 |
| qwerty12 | ~fauxmight | 09:41 |
| qwerty12 | ~seen fauxmight | 09:41 |
| * qwerty12 then remembers that infobot has disappeared... | 09:41 | |
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| slonopotamus | btw | 09:49 |
| slonopotamus | anyone has java on arm? not jalimo, but full jdk? | 09:49 |
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| slonopotamus | hmm... debian says it has openjdk for armel | 09:52 |
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| milos_ | Can someone recomend shop for buying n810? It needs to ship it to Bosnia | 10:14 |
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| Khertan | Hello ! | 10:19 |
| slonopotamus | hi | 10:20 |
| slonopotamus | Khertan, why don't you put pygtkeditor in maemo-extras? | 10:21 |
| Khertan | because i can't get gtksourceview | 10:21 |
| Khertan | in maemo-extras | 10:21 |
| slonopotamus | why you can't? | 10:21 |
| Khertan | it s a c lib | 10:21 |
| slonopotamus | and so what? | 10:21 |
| Khertan | and i m not able to compile and my nit | 10:21 |
| Khertan | and don't have enought time to do it on my computer at home | 10:21 |
| slonopotamus | i see | 10:22 |
| Khertan | s/and my nit/on my nit | 10:22 |
| Khertan | but if you can compile it on scratchbox with his python binding i could push pygtkeitor in extras | 10:22 |
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| aquatix | morning all | 10:27 |
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| Khertan | morning aquatix | 10:29 |
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| sven-tek | Good morning | 11:03 |
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| sven-tek | When i hit my N800's mode button, there used to be a offline-mode menu entry. But since one or two days this one is gone. There is only lock screen, lock device and shutdown. | 11:04 |
| sven-tek | any idea where this comes from? | 11:04 |
| pupnik_ | nope | 11:05 |
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| MaceN800 | hello | 11:05 |
| MaceN800 | awesome that i found the fix for this repeating bt keyboard stuff | 11:06 |
| MaceN800 | although it is still kind of a pain | 11:06 |
| MaceN800 | i think i need to tweak it a bit..but at least it doesn't start doing it off the bat | 11:06 |
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| Stskeeps | morning | 11:18 |
| X-Fade | Morning.. | 11:18 |
| MaceN800 | hey | 11:18 |
| slonopotamus | hi, Stskeeps | 11:18 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: I saw your PM after I approved the project ;) | 11:18 |
| Stskeeps | hehe, yeah, my fault | 11:19 |
| Stskeeps | when the form came back after an error it had magically switched back to SVN :) | 11:19 |
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| Khertan | Hi x-fade, stsjeeos and MaceN800 | 11:20 |
| Khertan | stskeeps :) | 11:20 |
| X-Fade | I'll ask Ferenc to change it to GIT. As there seems to be no way to switch in my admin interface ;) | 11:20 |
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| Khertan | sorry | 11:20 |
| X-Fade | Hi Khertan | 11:21 |
| Khertan | wie geht's ? | 11:21 |
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| Stskeeps | X-Fade: hehe, fine :) i've added the ideas for multiple repositories per user and per-user repositories to the ggit bugtracker | 11:21 |
| Stskeeps | (git doesn't support subtree checkout, so) | 11:21 |
| Stskeeps | tigert: morning - good job on plankton :) | 11:21 |
| tigert | Stskeeps: thanks :) | 11:22 |
| MaceN800 | ah well... time to go continue watching boston legal | 11:22 |
| MaceN800 | great show | 11:22 |
| MaceN800 | heh | 11:22 |
| tigert | that was a long ago :) | 11:22 |
| Stskeeps | hehe, people still use it, but it has been used to create many themes :) | 11:22 |
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| X-Fade | And there are even new themes based on plankton ;) | 11:23 |
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| * Stskeeps is still most impressed with hildon-theme-liberty (http://zenvoid.org/tmp/screenshot3.png) | 11:24 | |
| X-Fade | Too bad we have 16bit displays, so there is banding in gradients :( | 11:25 |
| * Khertan doesn't know this theme | 11:25 | |
| Stskeeps | Khertan: new theme zenvoid made for his custom chinook distribution long ago, - it's now in use in Mer | 11:26 |
| Stskeeps | compared to the nokian themes, it's actually CC :) | 11:26 |
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| Khertan | stskeeps : great ... | 11:27 |
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| Khertan | just a question about mer ... | 11:27 |
| Stskeeps | we don't have pygtk working yet :( :P | 11:28 |
| Khertan | does bluetooth session with a phone work ? | 11:28 |
| Khertan | what ? no pygtk ? | 11:28 |
| Stskeeps | not yet | 11:28 |
| Khertan | hum ... i can't use it so :) | 11:28 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, -yet- :) | 11:28 |
| Stskeeps | there's a problem with pygtk cos it's for gtk 2.14 and we have 2.12 :) | 11:28 |
| Khertan | yep ... i ll wait a bit :) | 11:28 |
| Stskeeps | i'll work on it after my exams | 11:28 |
| Khertan | 2.12 ? the same as maemo diablo right ? | 11:29 |
| Stskeeps | nop, maemo fremantle | 11:29 |
| Stskeeps | diablo is 2.10 | 11:29 |
| Khertan | ouch ... | 11:29 |
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| Khertan | ok now i understand why you can't use the pygtk from pymaemo | 11:29 |
| Stskeeps | well | 11:30 |
| Stskeeps | also, pymaemo is a mess :) | 11:30 |
| Stskeeps | from a distribution point of view | 11:30 |
| Stskeeps | the package names don't match, the packages are badly written in some cases, etc | 11:30 |
| Khertan | stskeep i agree | 11:30 |
| Stskeeps | we're going to look at a more lasting solution | 11:30 |
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| Stskeeps | which may mean that some debian packages (not python packages) may be renamed | 11:31 |
| Stskeeps | mer is a bit of spring cleaning in the maemo ecosystem, so :P | 11:31 |
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| lcuk | rocket up the backside! | 11:32 |
| johnx_ | lcuk, thanks, I'll pass | 11:32 |
| johnx_ | hey Stskeeps | 11:32 |
| *** johnx_ is now known as johnx | 11:32 | |
| Stskeeps | morning johnx | 11:32 |
| lcuk | gandalf: you cannot pass! | 11:32 |
| johnx | lcuk, says I to the proffered rocket | 11:33 |
| lcuk | heh | 11:36 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: i got HAM to build yesterday btw, think jaffa continued with it | 11:37 |
| johnx | wow. bet it's not really showing many packages :) | 11:39 |
| Stskeeps | no, but red pill mode is certainly like the feeling in the matrix.. | 11:39 |
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| Meiz_n810 | guys at #ubuntu-mobile wont answer my questitions :( | 11:41 |
| Meiz_n810 | or they don't know | 11:41 |
| johnx | Meiz_n810, what's your question? | 11:41 |
| Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: i'm willing to bet most UME stuff is actually from moblin | 11:41 |
| Meiz_n810 | how to include statusbar into panel.. | 11:41 |
| johnx | or is it in my scrollback? | 11:41 |
| Meiz_n810 | johnx: saw http://trac.tspre.org/meiz/marquee/ | 11:42 |
| johnx | Meiz_n810, it's separate from panel. look in your desktop.conf and set aside a place for it | 11:42 |
| Meiz_n810 | as far as i can get... | 11:42 |
| Meiz_n810 | johnx: i copied conf-files from ubuntu-mobile | 11:42 |
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| johnx | that's a start! is this with ubuntu's hildon or did you get marquee plugins to build for mer? | 11:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, reply-to munging seems to be inconsistent between -community and -users/-developers. | 11:43 |
| Meiz_n810 | johnx: i installed ubuntus marquee | 11:43 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: Git should now be available for you.. | 11:43 |
| Stskeeps | X-Fade: thanks! | 11:43 |
| johnx | Meiz_n810, did you let ubuntu's libhildon overwrite mer's? | 11:43 |
| johnx | or did you force depends? | 11:43 |
| Meiz_n810 | yep | 11:43 |
| Meiz_n810 | overwrite only | 11:44 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Yeah, I have noticed that too before.. | 11:44 |
| Meiz_n810 | but i can reinstall the mer's | 11:44 |
| Stskeeps | X-Fade: we'll probably wait for the two wishlist items to be fullfilled before moving source from launchpad to garage, but it's a start :) | 11:44 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: It could really nead some cleanup/alignment ;) | 11:44 |
| johnx | Meiz_n810, I'd be very curious to know what happens when you reinstall mer's hildon (or try it with force-depends instead of force-overwrite) | 11:44 |
| Meiz_n810 | johnx: i reinstall the mer's package | 11:45 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: you had SDK on your linux box btw? | 11:46 |
| timeless | so can i install mer on chinook? :) | 11:46 |
| zenvoid | a friend has got the domain mamoe.org, hehe :-) | 11:46 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: yeah, should work fine, clone-to-SD not so easily | 11:46 |
| timeless | what about "older" ? :) | 11:47 |
| Stskeeps | zenvoid: hehe, probably too close trademark wise | 11:47 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, I do have mer sdk, but I think I might have mucked it up... | 11:47 |
| timeless | oh yeah, can i run it on my 770? | 11:47 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: we're working on 770 port, but we have some trouble with sapwood mucking up / the processor | 11:47 |
| Stskeeps | where the stack gets corrupted in wonderful ways | 11:47 |
| timeless | (my 770 is currently on loan, as a e61 charger oddly enough, but ...) | 11:48 |
| timeless | yum | 11:48 |
| johnx | heh, but we can't get mer running on your e61 (get asked that sometimes) | 11:48 |
| timeless | lol | 11:48 |
| timeless | not my e61 | 11:48 |
| timeless | i have an e61i | 11:48 |
| timeless | a friend's charger port snapped | 11:48 |
| johnx | ah an e61i, then it should be no problem | 11:49 |
| timeless | which i think might be worse than what happened to mine (plug snapped off inside the port) | 11:49 |
| timeless | heh | 11:49 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Just solder some wires ;) | 11:49 |
| timeless | i'm a software guy! | 11:49 |
| timeless | (ok, it's true, i did replace the screen on my 770, but, pretend i'd never do such a thing!) | 11:50 |
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| Stskeeps | timeless: basically what we're seeing on 770 is some strange things happening when going from signed to unsigned integers, where it suddenly starts putting values in places in structures it shouldn't have :P | 11:50 |
| johnx | luckily the tip of my charger cable just broke, thus leaving me to mac guyver something... | 11:50 |
| timeless | ouch | 11:50 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: and we see it consistently on armv5 archs (zaurus, 770) | 11:51 |
| timeless | have you talked to eero? | 11:51 |
| johnx | also saw it at first on a pxa270 zaurus (armv5). but it seems to be slightly different... | 11:51 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: similar thing happening but different consequences | 11:51 |
| johnx | ah, gotcha | 11:51 |
| johnx | out of my depth :) | 11:51 |
| timeless | johnx: thankfully i have quite a few charging cables | 11:52 |
| timeless | so losing a cable isn't such a problem | 11:52 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: not yet, but consequence is https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3939 , as it doesn't deal well with malformed headers :) | 11:52 |
| timeless | losing a charging port otoh is a bit of a pain | 11:52 |
| johnx | timeless, my current country of residence is somewhat deficient in Nokia produkt | 11:52 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: but if you can live without sapwood stuff and disable it, it actually works :P (some things like wifi modules and such still needs to be compiled) | 11:54 |
| Stskeeps | right, exam reading time | 11:54 |
| timeless | johnx: you want someone to ship you a device? | 11:54 |
| timeless | i accept paypal and can arrange for transport | 11:54 |
| timeless | or are you complaining that we don't list it in regional settings | 11:55 |
| timeless | in which case.. bah | 11:55 |
| johnx | nah, only thing I needed a charger...and I managed to construct something that plugs into AC 100V at one end and an N800 at the other end | 11:55 |
| timeless | 100v instead of 120v? | 11:55 |
| * timeless sighs | 11:56 | |
| timeless | java killed my browser | 11:56 |
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| Khertan | At home it should be 230V, i live in france, but many times a day ... power voltage drop down under 180V | 11:57 |
| timeless | youch | 11:57 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan: i really dread for the day i'll move to poland with my gf and having to deal with their power system.. | 11:57 |
| Khertan | yep ... living in very small town | 11:57 |
| johnx | yeah, 100V (50Hz or 60Hz depending on what part of the island), US style outlet without the 3rd ground plug. just saying it wasn't easy to track down a charger | 11:57 |
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| Khertan | 50 or 60hz ... should be funny with console :) | 11:58 |
| timeless | which japanese island is htis? | 11:58 |
| Khertan | i imagine one done for 50hz running at 60hz ... it will be hard to finish games :) | 11:58 |
| johnx | timeless, the big one :) | 11:58 |
| timeless | heh | 11:58 |
| Khertan | like the modification i have made on my dreamcast just to speed up a bit soul calibur | 11:59 |
| timeless | yeah i do know about japan / outlets | 11:59 |
| Khertan | :) | 11:59 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: maybe we should consider dropbear in standard image instead of openssh-server | 12:00 |
| johnx | Khertan, also works on alarm clocks you bring over from the states... | 12:00 |
| Khertan | lol | 12:00 |
| Khertan | a bit less funny | 12:00 |
| johnx | Khertan, oh, it was funny :) but just once | 12:00 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, hmm, how much memory is openssh eating? | 12:01 |
| Khertan | funny only for the guy which see you one hour before at the office :) | 12:01 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: no clue, but i'm sure dropbear does less :P | 12:01 |
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| Stskeeps | someone -really- needs to take a hard bashing to most interesting applications going into Extras | 12:01 |
| Stskeeps | i hardly use the other categories | 12:02 |
| johnx | Khertan, well, it ran at 5/6 speed...so yeah, my wife ended up a little late to work that day | 12:02 |
| Khertan | in this way this is not a prob :) | 12:02 |
| Khertan | stskeeps : what you mean by "hard bashing to most interesting applications" | 12:03 |
| Khertan | ? | 12:03 |
| * GeneralAntilles agrees with Khertan. | 12:03 | |
| Stskeeps | Khertan: as in that the categories system is silly that 90% end up in Extras, and 10% in the other ones :P maemo-select-location should be mandatory | 12:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh, that. | 12:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Probably Fremantle. | 12:04 |
| Stskeeps | and they shouldn't suggest Extras initially | 12:04 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: I didn't get very far with HAM. Was getting segfaults when starting hildon-desktop. Worked out I was trying to run x86 on x86_64 | 12:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia is supposedly considering the issue | 12:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | but I haven't heard more. | 12:04 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: yeah, that's possible | 12:04 |
| Khertan | i don't like having to select location while install | 12:04 |
| Jaffa | Me neither | 12:04 |
| Khertan | as when i do an apt-get install of many applications | 12:04 |
| Khertan | it block the process | 12:05 |
| Khertan | s/it/it s | 12:05 |
| Khertan | and most of app which use it ... ask again at each update | 12:05 |
| johnx | they at least need to do it as a preconfigure step | 12:05 |
| Jaffa | I hate it. Espeically if it's a big download, there'll be a blocking dialogue some arbitrary time later | 12:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3822 | 12:05 |
| timeless | yeah | 12:05 |
| Jaffa | and, as khertan says, it just looks like apt-get (via SSH) has hung | 12:05 |
| timeless | you don't really want the menu chooser | 12:06 |
| timeless | that's a disaster | 12:06 |
| johnx | timeless, the app menu as a whole? | 12:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | If only Organize for the application menu weren't so broken. | 12:06 |
| Khertan | gan ? | 12:06 |
| Khertan | it s not broken ? | 12:06 |
| timeless | i haven't seen a spec for organize | 12:07 |
| timeless | i'm not sure it exists | 12:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Khertan, the drag'n'drop success rate is frequently bellow 50% | 12:07 |
| timeless | i mean maemo-select-location is a disaster | 12:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Would there be a way for the script to decide whether it's being called from h-a-m or apt? | 12:07 |
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| timeless | it could check if there's a tty i suppose | 12:07 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: yeah, should be | 12:07 |
| timeless | but that's an awful kuldge | 12:07 |
| Jaffa | timeless: or check parent pids | 12:07 |
| timeless | what happens if the parent pid doesn't match what you know? | 12:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ideally, though, the repository categories will match up against the application menu categories well enough that applications can just decide where they should go. | 12:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless, I say we trigger a watchdog reboot and show an image of a tablet with a broken screen. | 12:08 |
| Jaffa | Indeed. I don't choose every time I install something on Ubuuntu | 12:08 |
| timeless | no need | 12:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | I prefer wazd's mockup for organizing within the menu to having a separate settings dialog hidden 3 dialogs deep in Control Panel. | 12:09 |
| timeless | the internal fremantle builds already show nokia boot screen images constantly | 12:09 |
| timeless | they're semi fake | 12:09 |
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| timeless | (only some part of the watchdog'd set died) | 12:09 |
| Jaffa | wazd needs to be made more aware of #3822. I pointed out the categories, but his recent mockups are showing a few top-level categories | 12:10 |
| timeless | so, yeah, that's implemented :) | 12:10 |
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| timeless | i'm not really sure what's wanted | 12:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | roope, ping? | 12:10 |
| timeless | but do most people agree that DnD doesn't actually work? | 12:11 |
| Jaffa | timeless: fremantle looking good? | 12:11 |
| * Jaffa has rarely tried "Organise" | 12:11 | |
| timeless | jaffa: all i see are nokia boot logos | 12:11 |
| timeless | and then black screens for 15-30s at a time | 12:11 |
| timeless | if you consider that good, then yeah, we're in great shape | 12:11 |
| johnx | timeless, yes. even better than 'not work' it gives positive feedback (highlighting the destination) *then* doesn't work | 12:11 |
| Jaffa | *cough* | 12:11 |
| johnx | timeless, it's ok, there's plenty of time to rebase on mer | 12:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anybody got a link handy to yerga's widget screenshots? | 12:12 |
| Stskeeps | http://share.ovi.com/channel/yerga.Hildonwidgets | 12:12 |
| timeless | johnx: oh, i've used the organise thing | 12:12 |
| timeless | i've probably even filed internal bugs about it | 12:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless, that link. | 12:12 |
| timeless | ok, lemme find a working web browser | 12:13 |
| * timeless fired the last one | 12:13 | |
| timeless | ok, so we haven't released anything | 12:13 |
| * Khertan have a performance problem with his new mCalendar UI ... | 12:14 | |
| timeless | oh, not true | 12:14 |
| timeless | we did actually release something relevant | 12:14 |
| * timeless grumbles | 12:14 | |
| timeless | is there a better viewer? | 12:14 |
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| timeless | something picasa-esque? | 12:14 |
| Khertan | i have try to display a week with seven gtk.TreeView ... but it s really slow :) | 12:15 |
| johnx | ah, so the dialog windows are like that on purpose... | 12:15 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: see, http://share.ovi.com/media/yerga.Hildonwidgets/yerga.11985 , it has icons! :P | 12:16 |
| Stskeeps | (the arrow) | 12:16 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, yeah, and different scrollbars... | 12:16 |
| johnx | I think a theme rearrangement must have happened | 12:16 |
| Stskeeps | the | ones? | 12:16 |
| Stskeeps | it's there | 12:16 |
| Stskeeps | you just dont see it immediately | 12:16 |
| Stskeeps | which reminds me i should really put mer on my beagleboard at work.. | 12:18 |
| Stskeeps | not that i have any relevant input devices at this point | 12:18 |
| * timeless frowns | 12:18 | |
| timeless | are these widgets things nokia promised, or an interogation of known widget classes? | 12:18 |
| timeless | oh brother | 12:19 |
| Stskeeps | timeless: just whatever we got in fremantle sdk | 12:19 |
| Stskeeps | that is, pre-alpha sd | 12:19 |
| Stskeeps | k | 12:19 |
| Stskeeps | which promised nothing about widgets | 12:19 |
| timeless | so these 'apps' are things that were included in the sdk? | 12:19 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, libhildon test stuff | 12:19 |
| Stskeeps | afaik | 12:19 |
| timeless | interesting | 12:19 |
| * timeless sighs | 12:19 | |
| * timeless needs to chew out someone | 12:19 | |
| timeless | they don't understand how to use English (the language) | 12:20 |
| timeless | and persist in totally butchering it | 12:20 |
| timeless | it's really really annoying | 12:20 |
| johnx | I never saw those little blue "pill shaped" scrollbars | 12:20 |
| timeless | it's an iphone thing | 12:20 |
| timeless | everyone loves to use them | 12:20 |
| timeless | but they aren't scrollbars | 12:20 |
| timeless | they're positional indicators | 12:20 |
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| timeless | you can't touch them | 12:21 |
| K2 | grrrr | 12:21 |
| Stskeeps | well, there's missing localization strings (#4001) , so localization doesn't apply well :) | 12:21 |
| timeless | if you want to go to the top or bottom of something | 12:21 |
| timeless | stskeeps: i've filed bugs against the relevant spec before | 12:21 |
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| timeless | the people involved just don't speak the language | 12:21 |
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| timeless | and don't understand that it's important | 12:21 |
| *** khertan_n810 is now known as Khertan_n810 | 12:21 | |
| t_s_o | what language would that be? | 12:21 |
| timeless | English | 12:22 |
| timeless | if someone's about to ask you a question | 12:22 |
| timeless | what should they say: | 12:22 |
| timeless | "Yipper selector" | 12:22 |
| timeless | "Select yipper" | 12:22 |
| johnx | O_o | 12:23 |
| timeless | http://share.ovi.com/media/yerga.Hildonwidgets/yerga.11966 | 12:23 |
| timeless | is the relevant widget | 12:23 |
| timeless | and yes, i do want to tar+feather someone | 12:23 |
| timeless | in dialogs, you're supposed to have titles indicating to the user what you want the user to do | 12:24 |
| timeless | not naming the dialog | 12:24 |
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| timeless | 'this is a stupid dialog' | 12:24 |
| * Khertan_n810 is looking for an idea on how to display a week of events in mCalendar ... | 12:24 | |
| timeless | yes, that's quite true | 12:24 |
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| timeless | 1 week? | 12:24 |
| Khertan_n810 | yep | 12:24 |
| timeless | 100 events? | 12:24 |
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| timeless | weekends? | 12:25 |
| Khertan_n810 | weekends include | 12:25 |
| timeless | do you have an agenda view already? | 12:25 |
| Khertan_n810 | in a view which look like a week view in google agenda | 12:25 |
| Khertan_n810 | timeless > this is the problem ... it s too slow | 12:25 |
| aquatix | Khertan_n810: look at how evolution or pimlico's dates do it? | 12:25 |
| timeless | which view is too slow? | 12:26 |
| Khertan_n810 | timeless my own builded week view :) | 12:26 |
| timeless | sorry, confused | 12:26 |
| lcuk | Khertan_n810, i think you might have to custom draw it or something rather than defining gtk widgets (or perhaps its something your widgets are doing automatically which can be disabled - ie reflow layout?) | 12:27 |
| timeless | you're trying for a 7 day view,, not an agenda view? | 12:27 |
| Khertan_n810 | what you mean by agenda view ? | 12:27 |
| timeless | open calendar.google.com | 12:27 |
| timeless | they have: day, week, month, 4 days, agenda | 12:28 |
| timeless | agenda is a serialized list of upcoming events | 12:28 |
| Khertan_n810 | timeless : i ve already that | 12:28 |
| timeless | ok | 12:28 |
| Khertan_n810 | this is what i use | 12:28 |
| timeless | so you really want a 7 day view | 12:28 |
| Khertan_n810 | but many user want something else | 12:28 |
| timeless | use a web browser :) | 12:28 |
| Khertan_n810 | timeless i would like | 12:29 |
| Khertan_n810 | this is something i think to avoid gtk | 12:29 |
| Khertan_n810 | and made my own display | 12:29 |
| Khertan_n810 | but how to catch event like click | 12:29 |
| Khertan_n810 | i would like to have a python code ... and html display :) | 12:29 |
| Khertan_n810 | this will easeall my dev ... | 12:30 |
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| Khertan_n810 | as most of the time i lost it tryign to make a a usefull gtk ui | 12:30 |
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| timeless | gtk isn't really the answer for such a problem btw | 12:33 |
| timeless | in theory clutter might help | 12:33 |
| timeless | ubt you really want to *draw* shapes | 12:33 |
| timeless | not overlap widgets | 12:33 |
| timeless | your choices end up being a canvas or a canvas or a canvas | 12:34 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: building h-a-m | 12:34 |
| timeless | there's html:canvas, html style, qpainter, clutter, cairo | 12:34 |
| johnx | good deal, looking at things to add to auto-startx and first-boot-wizard | 12:35 |
| baaba | is there any way to make my own fiasco image for diablo? | 12:35 |
| johnx | I wonder if the gtk frontend to package configuration plays nice with hildon | 12:35 |
| johnx | baaba, so you want to make a customized image? | 12:35 |
| baaba | basically i just have a customized rootfs and would like to replace the one from the nokia-provided fiasco image with it | 12:35 |
| Stskeeps | baaba: i think there's a generator for it in mamona | 12:36 |
| Stskeeps | but im not sure | 12:36 |
| johnx | I believe it's possible. does the nokia flasher have a way to make a fiasco image? | 12:36 |
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| Stskeeps | FIASCO isn't "public knowledge" yet :P | 12:36 |
| baaba | yeah i found that but it seems it only supports up to chinook | 12:36 |
| Stskeeps | baaba: file a bug about it, they might be open for it | 12:37 |
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| Stskeeps | what is your intended use of it, btw? | 12:37 |
| Stskeeps | just "imaging" or? | 12:37 |
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| baaba | i have a project with quite a few devices that need to have the same initial configuration | 12:37 |
| johnx | http://www.nopcode.org/0xFFFF/ | 12:38 |
| Stskeeps | baaba: flash first the image, then the rootfs specifically | 12:38 |
| baaba | so i'm just trying to minimize the constant cost of each flashing operation :P | 12:38 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, seems to be public knowledge now :) | 12:38 |
| Stskeeps | true | 12:38 |
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| baaba | yeah that's what i'm doing now | 12:38 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: pancake made a comment on the diablo images | 12:38 |
| Stskeeps | there's a change | 12:38 |
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| johnx | gack | 12:38 |
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| Stskeeps | oh that's a nasty phishing attempt | 12:39 |
| Stskeeps | 'Protect your Visa card online with a personal password' | 12:39 |
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| Stskeeps | with verifiedbyvisa and all that | 12:39 |
| Stskeeps | .. and then a gov.cn address | 12:39 |
| baaba | protectvisa.gov.cn.nothingsuspicioushere.com? :P | 12:40 |
| Stskeeps | baaba: i was kinda alerted by the gov.cn part | 12:40 |
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| w00t | Stskeeps: but the government of china LOVES to protect your visa | 12:42 |
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| Khertan_n810 | .... | 12:47 |
| Khertan_n810 | goocanvas ... someone know it ? | 12:47 |
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| GeneralAntilles | johnx, Stskeeps, Nokia is still working to release the image builder. :P | 12:48 |
| Stskeeps | k | 12:48 |
| baaba | how complicated can something like that be anyway | 12:50 |
| baaba | i mean it just packs a few images together and writes a small header, right? | 12:50 |
| Khertan_n810 | ouch ... i ve just see the date from pimlico source code to display event in a weekview ... they do all by hand | 12:50 |
| Khertan_n810 | ouch | 12:50 |
| Stskeeps | baaba: in essense, yeah | 12:50 |
| Stskeeps | (sp) | 12:50 |
| baaba | essence | 12:50 |
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| Stskeeps | oh ffs | 12:51 |
| Stskeeps | they changed nameservers at my uni today | 12:52 |
| lcuk | Khertan_n810, :) like i said | 12:52 |
| Khertan_n810 | i ll not recreate the wheel | 12:52 |
| lcuk | custom views and renderers and recreated in different systems every single day | 12:52 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, did the muck it up? | 12:53 |
| lcuk | from wxwidgets to qt to gtk to visual basic :) | 12:53 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: magic changes in nameserver and not telling anyone about it | 12:53 |
| * Stskeeps goes fix the resolv.conf's | 12:54 | |
| johnx | lcuk, so what's your thought on qt vs gtk for ease of accomplishing what you want (irrespective of speed) | 12:54 |
| lcuk | depends on language you wanna put it into, if your project is c - gtk is the natural choice | 12:55 |
| lcuk | if you are just starting out and havent chosen a language yet, qt offers unrivalled polish | 12:55 |
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| Jake42 | does N810 support mysql and php (as web server) ? | 12:55 |
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| Stskeeps | it's turing-complete.. | 12:56 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:56 |
| Jake42 | indeed | 12:56 |
| Jake42 | but I am searching | 12:56 |
| Jake42 | this for hours | 12:56 |
| Jake42 | but I counldn't find any good answer | 12:57 |
| johnx | Jake42, yes. lookup lighttpd or nginx | 12:57 |
| lcuk | why does your 810 need to be a server? | 12:57 |
| Jake42 | Johnx | 12:57 |
| Jake42 | ( lcuk its for a project) | 12:57 |
| lcuk | mind you, we asked the same question to the maemo.org admins :D | 12:57 |
| johnx | are you planning on just using it as a server or using it as a server and handheld computerat the same time? | 12:57 |
| * lcuk waves @ X-Fade | 12:57 | |
| Jake42 | lcuk ???? | 12:57 |
| Jake42 | johnx man... I installed them | 12:58 |
| Jake42 | but when I access the localhost/test.php | 12:58 |
| Jake42 | I doesn't show the php logo | 12:58 |
| Jake42 | (I have already prepared the site and the base, but I can't use them on the phone) | 12:58 |
| johnx | is the server running? | 12:59 |
| johnx | can you try running it from the terminal so you can see its output? | 12:59 |
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| *** Java20534 is now known as Jake42-2 | 13:01 | |
| Jake42-2 | it's me again, the server kicked me... | 13:01 |
| johnx | ah, did you get my last message? | 13:01 |
| Jake42-2 | no... | 13:01 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: it's really nice with Mer in a virtualbox | 13:02 |
| johnx | <johnx> is the server running? | 13:02 |
| johnx | <johnx> can you try running it from the terminal so you can see its output? | 13:02 |
| Stskeeps | you can just boot it and apt-get straight | 13:02 |
| Jake42-2 | w8 a sec... | 13:02 |
| Stskeeps | and when you test on tablet, it works there too :> | 13:02 |
| Jake42-2 | what do you mean? | 13:02 |
| Jake42-2 | I had installed the apache web server | 13:02 |
| johnx | ah | 13:02 |
| Jake42-2 | from the repository of maemo and the mysql as well | 13:03 |
| Jake42-2 | (from the maemo.org) | 13:03 |
| Jake42-2 | what is Mer and virtualbox? | 13:03 |
| johnx | ok. is apache running? | 13:03 |
| t_s_o | http://www.ubergizmo.com/15/archives/2009/01/cd_disc_packaging.html | 13:03 |
| Jake42-2 | on 127.0.0.1 | 13:03 |
| Stskeeps | Jake42-2: something else (http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint) | 13:03 |
| Jake42-2 | it says "It works!" | 13:04 |
| Jake42-2 | so I think it is ok | 13:04 |
| johnx | great, but when you try to load a .php page, what happens? | 13:04 |
| Jake42-2 | is displays it as text mesage | 13:04 |
| Jake42-2 | eg. 127.0.0.1/test.php | 13:04 |
| Jake42-2 | I see | 13:05 |
| Jake42-2 | <?php phpinfo() ?> | 13:05 |
| Jake42-2 | (but not the expected php logo) | 13:05 |
| johnx | and you also installed php support for apache? | 13:05 |
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| Jake42-2 | I install the apache web server package from the maemo.org . Isn't it ok? | 13:06 |
| Jake42-2 | (maybe that's what I'm missing) | 13:06 |
| johnx | well, it might not be built with php support | 13:07 |
| Jake42-2 | so? | 13:07 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: Mer-isms are needed for hildon-application-manager | 13:07 |
| Stskeeps | it uses 'user', inittab, etc | 13:08 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, expected as much :/ | 13:08 |
| johnx | inittab? | 13:08 |
| johnx | Jake42-2, did you install php separately? | 13:08 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, tries to insert a rescue mode thing | 13:08 |
| lcuk | is mer actually gonna be multiuser? | 13:08 |
| Jake42-2 | johnx I don't think so | 13:08 |
| Jake42-2 | from synaptic? | 13:09 |
| johnx | synaptic? you mean 'application manager'? | 13:09 |
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| lcuk | johnx, ;) at least he didnt say installshield :P | 13:10 |
| johnx | anyways, can you check your apache config to see if php is enabled? | 13:10 |
| Jake42-2 | yes | 13:10 |
| Jake42-2 | please tell me how .... :( | 13:11 |
| Jake42-2 | (In linux I knew it, but in maemo its tricky) | 13:11 |
| johnx | do you have openssh server or dropbear installed? | 13:11 |
| johnx | it should be in the same place as in debian, in /etc | 13:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, just rip out the rescue mode stuff? | 13:12 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: yeah, i did | 13:12 |
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| Jake42-2 | johnx , I don't have installed openssh server or dropbear | 13:13 |
| Jake42-2 | (should I?) | 13:13 |
| johnx | if you do you can ssh into your tablet | 13:13 |
| Jake42-2 | hmmm I thought so, but I didn't did it | 13:14 |
| johnx | well, if not just open "X Terminal" | 13:14 |
| Jake42-2 | so... for 1st step, maemo.org , download openssh ? | 13:14 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: added h-a-m merizing to wiki | 13:14 |
| Jake42-2 | (all the time I used x terminal :( ) | 13:14 |
| johnx | Jake42-2, yeah, you'll probably be happier using ssh and being able to type on your desktop keyboard | 13:15 |
| Jake42-2 | (indeed) | 13:15 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, ok, I won't bight off too much more until I chew through some of the changes to first-boot-wizard and auto-startx (as well as marquee plugins) | 13:16 |
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| johnx | back in couple minutes | 13:16 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: alright | 13:16 |
| Jake42-2 | Stskeeps | 13:16 |
| Jake42-2 | how should I access the tablet? | 13:17 |
| Jake42-2 | (I mean, what user?????) | 13:17 |
| Stskeeps | root | 13:17 |
| Jake42-2 | and the IP? | 13:17 |
| Stskeeps | whatever it got on the wifi network | 13:17 |
| Stskeeps | get homeip to show you | 13:17 |
| Jake42-2 | hmmm... yup... you're right... | 13:18 |
| Jake42-2 | openssH cilent and server | 13:18 |
| Jake42-2 | right? | 13:18 |
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| Stskeeps | mm | 13:18 |
| Stskeeps | bbl, reading | 13:18 |
| slonopotamus | fauxmight, ping | 13:18 |
| Jake42-2 | Stskeeps if I have 3 pc under the same router connected | 13:20 |
| Jake42-2 | all of them have the same public IP | 13:20 |
| Jake42-2 | how should I choose the N810? | 13:20 |
| Jake42-2 | (intranet?) | 13:20 |
| Stskeeps | Jake42-2: be internal on the network.. | 13:20 |
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| Jake42-2 | has the x terminal ifconfig? | 13:24 |
| Stskeeps | sudo gainroot | 13:24 |
| johnx | yes | 13:24 |
| johnx | type: /sbin/ifconfig | 13:25 |
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| Jake42-2 | at the meantime I install the openssh server | 13:25 |
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| Jake42-2 | (this cause collides...) | 13:25 |
| Jake42-2 | anyway.... | 13:25 |
| Jake42-2 | johnx | 13:26 |
| Jake42-2 | at the /etc | 13:26 |
| Jake42-2 | there isn't apache | 13:26 |
| Jake42-2 | or apach2 | 13:26 |
| johnx | is there httpd? | 13:26 |
| Jake42-2 | yes | 13:26 |
| Jake42-2 | but | 13:26 |
| Jake42-2 | the file conf in it | 13:27 |
| Jake42-2 | is blank...:( | 13:27 |
| Jake42-2 | (so there isn't configuration about apache and php :( ) | 13:27 |
| johnx | http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/apache/ | 13:27 |
| johnx | that's where you got it right? | 13:27 |
| Jake42-2 | yes | 13:28 |
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| Jake42-2 | that's right | 13:28 |
| johnx | read the description there about where the configuration is :) | 13:28 |
| Jake42-2 | I did | 13:28 |
| johnx | did you look in /usr/conf ? | 13:28 |
| Jake42-2 | yes | 13:29 |
| Jake42-2 | still blank | 13:29 |
| Jake42-2 | and the /etc/httpd/conf | 13:30 |
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| Jake42-2 | so I miss something :( | 13:30 |
| Jake42-2 | Is there any solution? | 13:32 |
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| Jake42-2 | (I just want mysql and php together) | 13:33 |
| Jake42-2 | (I don't mind If I should install Mer or anything else) | 13:33 |
| johnx | did you look at the documentation included with apache? | 13:33 |
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| Jake42-2 | if you mean on the official site of apache | 13:34 |
| Jake42-2 | I didn't find anything | 13:34 |
| johnx | no, I mean included with the package | 13:34 |
| Jake42-2 | ? | 13:34 |
| Jake42-2 | how is that possible? I just download the shortcut and I run it | 13:34 |
| johnx | well, it might have a readme or something in /usr/share/docs/<package name> | 13:35 |
| johnx | the package name seems to be httpd | 13:35 |
| Jake42-2 | inside /etc/httpd | 13:36 |
| Jake42-2 | there is only the conf | 13:36 |
| Jake42-2 | which is blank | 13:36 |
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| Jake42-2 | hmmm | 13:39 |
| Jake42-2 | How may i change the openssh password? | 13:39 |
| Jake42-2 | (i thought i inserted it right, but now I can't gain access) | 13:39 |
| pyhimys | Jake42-2: use ssh-keys? | 13:40 |
| Jake42-2 | ? | 13:40 |
| Jake42-2 | aaaa | 13:40 |
| Jake42-2 | yes | 13:40 |
| Jake42-2 | RSA that's what you mean | 13:41 |
| pyhimys | yep | 13:41 |
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| Jake42-2 | yes I use | 13:41 |
| Jake42-2 | shouldn't? | 13:41 |
| Jake42-2 | johnx there isn't | 13:42 |
| johnx | Jake42-2, make sure you're specifying the user 'root' when you use ssh | 13:42 |
| Jake42-2 | anything | 13:42 |
| Jake42-2 | on /usr/share/doc | 13:42 |
| Jake42-2 | (about httpd) | 13:42 |
| johnx | hmm, doesn't sound like a very good package of apache :/ | 13:43 |
| Jake42-2 | (only 1 README file) | 13:43 |
| Jake42-2 | johnx what do you propose? | 13:43 |
| johnx | no proposals really | 13:44 |
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| Jake42-2 | hmmm | 13:44 |
| johnx | you have some options, but it depends on what you need and how much time you want to put into this | 13:44 |
| Jake42-2 | time it's ok | 13:44 |
| *** tigert has quit IRC | 13:44 | |
| Jake42-2 | I just want to finish the job | 13:44 |
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| johnx | what's the project? | 13:45 |
| Jake42-2 | how about the Mer and virtual box? | 13:45 |
| Jake42-2 | web application in hand :) | 13:45 |
| Stskeeps | Jake42-2: that's an experimental project :) | 13:45 |
| johnx | and virtualbox is like vmware. we use it to run mer in a virtual machine on a desktop computer | 13:45 |
| Jake42-2 | I have created an electronic health record | 13:45 |
| johnx | so the device needs to run a web browser too, right? | 13:46 |
| Jake42-2 | yes | 13:46 |
| Jake42-2 | (the files are ready) | 13:47 |
| Jake42-2 | I just miss the web server | 13:47 |
| Jake42-2 | The apache should work, since it says "it works!" at local host | 13:47 |
| johnx | yes, but unless it has php support it won't work | 13:48 |
| Stskeeps | Jake42-2: where do you work, out of curiosity? | 13:48 |
| Jake42-2 | university project | 13:48 |
| Jake42-2 | johnx unfortunately I know it... :( | 13:48 |
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| Jake42-2 | plzzz guys... I have been working on it since 5 months.... | 13:49 |
| Jake42-2 | it's the last jigsaw .... | 13:49 |
| Jake42-2 | I should be something.... | 13:49 |
| Stskeeps | Jake42-2: so you just need to show a demo? | 13:50 |
| johnx | have you looked at "easy debian"? | 13:50 |
| Jake42-2 | ha... | 13:50 |
| Jake42-2 | I did | 13:50 |
| Jake42-2 | but it's toooooooooooooooo slow... | 13:50 |
| Stskeeps | Jake42-2: it would probably do the trick for you | 13:50 |
| Jake42-2 | the browser is like never - open.... | 13:50 |
| Stskeeps | Jake42-2: you just need to run apache inside it | 13:50 |
| Stskeeps | not the browser | 13:50 |
| johnx | Jake42-2, run the browser in maemo and run the server in apache | 13:50 |
| Jake42-2 | hmmm | 13:51 |
| johnx | s/server in apache/apache in easy debian chroot/ | 13:51 |
| johnx | <- fails | 13:51 |
| Jake42-2 | fails? | 13:51 |
| johnx | I meant, I mis-typed :) | 13:51 |
| Jake42-2 | ...... :) | 13:51 |
| Jake42-2 | but which should be the local host? | 13:52 |
| johnx | 127.0.0.1 = localhost | 13:52 |
| Jake42-2 | yes | 13:52 |
| johnx | a chroot doesn't change that | 13:52 |
| Jake42-2 | I meant | 13:52 |
| Jake42-2 | the apache runs on one OS , and the web browser on another... | 13:52 |
| Jake42-2 | It is virtual | 13:53 |
| Stskeeps | and? | 13:53 |
| Jake42-2 | and the directories are considered to be the same? | 13:53 |
| Stskeeps | no, it's same OS | 13:53 |
| Stskeeps | same kernel | 13:53 |
| johnx | Jake42-2, a chroot is not the same as a virtual machine | 13:53 |
| Jake42-2 | is accesses the same directories... | 13:53 |
| Jake42-2 | hmmm | 13:53 |
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| Stskeeps | Jake42-2: no, just accesses the stuff inside chroot | 13:54 |
| Jake42-2 | hmm | 13:54 |
| Jake42-2 | I don't get along with chroot | 13:54 |
| Jake42-2 | it is a file? | 13:54 |
| johnx | it's a directory | 13:54 |
| johnx | say your chroot is /mnt/chroot | 13:54 |
| johnx | you keep a normal debian system under /mnt/chroot | 13:55 |
| johnx | apache can only see things under /mnt/chroot | 13:55 |
| johnx | so apache sees /mnt/chroot/etc/apache as /etc/apache | 13:55 |
| Jake42-2 | so I should create the | 13:55 |
| Jake42-2 | aaaaaa | 13:55 |
| Jake42-2 | You wrote it... | 13:55 |
| johnx | that's only *if* you're running apache in a chroot | 13:56 |
| johnx | right now you're running it normally, but it's not a very good package of apache | 13:56 |
| Jake42-2 | is there any other package? | 13:57 |
| johnx | I don't know | 13:57 |
| johnx | I don't use a web server on my n800 :) | 13:58 |
| johnx | I still think "easy debian" would be the easiest way | 13:58 |
| Jake42-2 | I have it installed | 13:58 |
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| Jake42-2 | now how am I supposed to install openssh AND on it? | 13:59 |
| johnx | if you use "easy debian" then you can use the normal debian package for apache and it will be easier to setup | 13:59 |
| Stskeeps | 'lo persia | 13:59 |
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| persia | Hello :) | 13:59 |
| johnx | hi persia | 13:59 |
| housetier | moin | 13:59 |
| Jake42-2 | johnx are you sure that | 14:00 |
| Jake42-2 | there is apache under easy debian? | 14:00 |
| johnx | yes. you can install any debian package under easy debian | 14:00 |
| Jake42-2 | but what packages should I install | 14:01 |
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| johnx | apache | 14:01 |
| Jake42-2 | (those of LAMP?) | 14:01 |
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| Stskeeps | yes | 14:01 |
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| Jake42-2 | within debian | 14:03 |
| Jake42-2 | HOW am supposed to type numbers? | 14:03 |
| Jake42-2 | the fn button doesn't correspond | 14:03 |
| Jake42-2 | (btw sudo apt-get install apache , there aren't packages) | 14:04 |
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| Jake42-2 | (should I also update repos?) | 14:04 |
| johnx | that would be a good start I'm sure | 14:04 |
| johnx | you can use: apt-cache search apache | 14:04 |
| johnx | to find the exact names of the apache packages you want | 14:04 |
| johnx | or you can browse the list of packages on packages.debian.org | 14:05 |
| Jake42-2 | I know the names of packages | 14:05 |
| Jake42-2 | but there aren't in... | 14:05 |
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| Jake42-2 | (the apt-cache searvh apache has only some packages about java,ssl and XML) | 14:06 |
| johnx | did you do an apt-get update yet? | 14:06 |
| Jake42-2 | (either way I installed them, just in case) | 14:06 |
| Jake42-2 | yup I did | 14:07 |
| Jake42-2 | you think upgrade wokr? | 14:07 |
| Jake42-2 | *work | 14:07 |
| Jake42-2 | the same again | 14:07 |
| johnx | then check /etc/apt/sources.list | 14:08 |
| Jake42-2 | the main problem is | 14:08 |
| Jake42-2 | that I can't type numbers.....:( | 14:08 |
| johnx | install openssh server in maemo (outside debian), ssh in to the n810 from a desktop | 14:09 |
| Jake42-2 | OH, I found it, I can :) | 14:09 |
| johnx | edit things that way | 14:09 |
| johnx | ah, ok | 14:09 |
| Jake42-2 | but in case I did this you said, how should I had access inside debian? | 14:09 |
| johnx | it's just a directory | 14:10 |
| Jake42-2 | a, ok then... | 14:10 |
| zs | hi is it possible to get gcc working on n810? | 14:10 |
| Jake42-2 | anyway... | 14:10 |
| Jake42-2 | the source.list is empty... | 14:10 |
| johnx | zs, yes, I believe so, but it's not really recommended | 14:11 |
| zs | johnx: why not? | 14:11 |
| johnx | Jake42-2, are there any files in /etc/apt/sources.list.d ? | 14:11 |
| Jake42-2 | yup | 14:11 |
| Jake42-2 | but still empty | 14:11 |
| johnx | Jake42-2, then add the correct debian repository | 14:12 |
| johnx | zs, gcc and the headers you need with it can take a lot of space | 14:12 |
| Jake42-2 | johnx now there is a problem... | 14:13 |
| Jake42-2 | the browser of debian is too slow... | 14:14 |
| Jake42-2 | so It must me done | 14:14 |
| johnx | Jake42-2, don't use it | 14:14 |
| Jake42-2 | outside | 14:14 |
| johnx | yes | 14:14 |
| johnx | do that | 14:14 |
| Jake42-2 | hmmm w8 | 14:14 |
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| Jake42-2 | in which folder | 14:17 |
| Jake42-2 | is the debian? | 14:17 |
| Jake42-2 | something like chroot | 14:17 |
| johnx | I honestly don't know | 14:17 |
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| johnx | hmm, looks like marquee-plugins are relying on some things in hildonwm that aren't there anymore | 14:18 |
| johnx | HD_ATOM_MB_GRAB_TRANSFER | 14:19 |
| Jake42-2 | ... | 14:19 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: i think it was added | 14:19 |
| Jake42-2 | find / chroot isn't a goode choice... anything else? | 14:19 |
| Stskeeps | Jake42-2: /debian | 14:19 |
| Stskeeps | probably | 14:19 |
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| johnx | Stskeeps, added by the ubuntu guys? | 14:20 |
| Stskeeps | moblin, actually | 14:20 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 14:20 |
| johnx | yeah, looks like it | 14:20 |
| johnx | found it | 14:21 |
| Stskeeps | hmm, multiple screen resolution and rotation support patches | 14:21 |
| Stskeeps | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/hildon-desktop/ubuntu/changes | 14:21 |
| Stskeeps | feel free to merge as much as you want | 14:21 |
| johnx | I'll see how that goes :) | 14:21 |
| Jake42-2 | Stskeeps is it possible to run on N810? | 14:22 |
| Khertan_n810 | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~ubuntu-mobile/hildon-desktop/ubuntu/revision/356 | 14:22 |
| Khertan_n810 | more interesting :) | 14:22 |
| Khertan_n810 | i would like to see what kourou look like | 14:22 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan_n810: i haven't been able to make it work sanely yet | 14:22 |
| Khertan_n810 | héhé i m not surprized | 14:23 |
| * slonopotamus thinks everyone is crazy with screen rotation | 14:23 | |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: i'm more interested in screen resolution | 14:23 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, hmm... where do you have resolution different from 800x480? | 14:24 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: x86 | 14:24 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, oh my | 14:24 |
| Stskeeps | zaurus | 14:24 |
| Stskeeps | wii | 14:24 |
| Jake42-2 | where is the maemo repository? | 14:24 |
| slonopotamus | wii? you're running mer on wii? | 14:25 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: we might | 14:25 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, not yet :) | 14:25 |
| johnx | so far debian works nicely and so does X11 | 14:25 |
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| johnx | that's just a short hop to ubuntu and mer except for the resolution | 14:25 |
| Stskeeps | 640x480 or how was it? | 14:25 |
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| johnx | 640x480 for NTSC | 14:26 |
| johnx | 640x576 for PAL I think? | 14:26 |
| slonopotamus | mer, maemo, ubuntu mobile, android... to many entities | 14:26 |
| slonopotamus | deblet... | 14:26 |
| slonopotamus | s/to/too | 14:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, Android is something else entirely. | 14:27 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, once we rule the world we'll tell the others to stop :) | 14:27 |
| Jake42-2 | johnx.... had you tried android on N810? | 14:27 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, :) | 14:27 |
| johnx | Jake42-2, I haven't | 14:27 |
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| slonopotamus | johnx, i'm unstoppable with my gentoo :) i'll write ebuild for your mer :) | 14:27 |
| Jake42-2 | the repo of maemo? | 14:27 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, deblet is superseded by mer...and hopefully we can share a lot in common with ubuntu mobile | 14:27 |
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| johnx | Jake42-2, repository.maemo.org | 14:28 |
| Stskeeps | Jake42-2: google is helpful | 14:28 |
| Jake42-2 | no | 14:28 |
| Jake42-2 | (sorry) | 14:28 |
| Jake42-2 | I meant something else.... | 14:28 |
| Jake42-2 | may I copy | 14:28 |
| Jake42-2 | links of other repos | 14:28 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, why didn't you join forces with ubuntu mobile? | 14:28 |
| Jake42-2 | (like ubuntu) | 14:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | slonopotamus, they target big fat UMPCs and MIDs. | 14:29 |
| Jake42-2 | slonopotamus you mean to install ubuntu on N810? | 14:29 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: we're probably more willing to break things a lot more than ubuntu | 14:29 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, is there severe mismatch in your goals? | 14:29 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, not really the hold up :) | 14:29 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, they're ubuntu *first* and maemo second | 14:29 |
| Jake42-2 | I remind I need PHP + MYSQL i don't care about OS, I need it to work... | 14:29 |
| johnx | we're maemo first and ubuntu second | 14:29 |
| johnx | Jake42-2, if you give up when you're halfway there it's never going to work. you can make this work in easy debian, but you need to put a little time into it | 14:30 |
| johnx | don't just run into a dead-end and give up in 5 minutes | 14:30 |
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| Jake42-2 | johnx | 14:30 |
| johnx | Jake42-2, | 14:30 |
| Jake42-2 | I just want to make it happen | 14:30 |
| Jake42-2 | you are right, in what you said but we can't find | 14:31 |
| Jake42-2 | the debian dir.... | 14:31 |
| Stskeeps | Jake42-2: hint, 'mount' | 14:31 |
| Stskeeps | in maemo | 14:31 |
| Stskeeps | shows you clearly where the partition is mounted | 14:31 |
| Jake42-2 | mnt | 14:32 |
| Jake42-2 | and it has only | 14:32 |
| Jake42-2 | initfs | 14:32 |
| Stskeeps | no, not that one | 14:32 |
| Stskeeps | anyhow | 14:32 |
| Stskeeps | Jake42-2: there's a thread on iTT with all the gory details about Easy Debian | 14:32 |
| Stskeeps | and qole's always up for answering questions | 14:33 |
| Stskeeps | it is pretty easy if you study how easy debian works | 14:33 |
| Jake42-2 | what is iTT ? | 14:33 |
| Stskeeps | internettablettalk.com/forums | 14:33 |
| Jake42-2 | aaaaa | 14:34 |
| Jake42-2 | I had made many posts there | 14:34 |
| Jake42-2 | but none good answer | 14:34 |
| Stskeeps | yes, but you're not asking the right question then | 14:34 |
| Stskeeps | look at the guides for easy debian | 14:34 |
| Jake42-2 | ok | 14:35 |
| Jake42-2 | but then | 14:35 |
| Jake42-2 | besides the php | 14:35 |
| Stskeeps | trust me, it'll work, and you can access it in the normal maemo browser | 14:35 |
| Jake42-2 | and the mysql should be installed on debian as well | 14:36 |
| johnx | yes | 14:36 |
| Stskeeps | i have no idea if mysql works on ARM | 14:36 |
| Jake42-2 | in maemo | 14:36 |
| Jake42-2 | itself | 14:36 |
| Jake42-2 | it works | 14:36 |
| Jake42-2 | (tested :) ) | 14:36 |
| Jake42-2 | but i need php support now | 14:36 |
| Jake42-2 | so | 14:36 |
| Stskeeps | fair enough | 14:36 |
| Jake42-2 | the php should be installed on debian | 14:36 |
| Stskeeps | the apache + php | 14:37 |
| Stskeeps | go read up on it, it'll save yourself a lot of time instead of asking questions | 14:37 |
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| Jake42-2 | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24272&highlight=easy+debian | 14:38 |
| johnx | Jake42-2, you are doing something that we haven't done. if you ask us questions all we will be able to do is search google and try and tell you what we find. it's faster to just search yourself | 14:38 |
| Jake42-2 | If you se at iTT | 14:38 |
| Jake42-2 | the user T3rmInAt0r | 14:38 |
| Jake42-2 | it's me | 14:38 |
| johnx | I guessed :) | 14:38 |
| Jake42-2 | I kept going on asking questions | 14:38 |
| Jake42-2 | before xmas... | 14:38 |
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| lcuk | johnx, have you got yourself a wii to test mer on yet? | 14:39 |
| johnx | lcuk, had one since january 2007 :) | 14:39 |
| lcuk | yeah but have you got linux on it yet | 14:40 |
| lcuk | (my son hates to hear those words) | 14:40 |
| johnx | lcuk, very much so, but not ubuntu | 14:40 |
| * lcuk installs linux on his mountain bike | 14:40 | |
| johnx | I even recompiled the kernel on it | 14:40 |
| lcuk | nice, whats the cpu spec - in comparison to n8x0? | 14:40 |
| johnx | I need to get at toolchain installed again and build a driver for my usb-ethernet adapter | 14:40 |
| johnx | lcuk, a ~700MHz G3-class PowerPC | 14:41 |
| lcuk | does wifi not work yet with it? | 14:41 |
| johnx | it's *fast* | 14:41 |
| lcuk | ahhh cool | 14:41 |
| johnx | yeah, no wifi | 14:41 |
| lcuk | the gpu is a bit underpowered but obviously capable | 14:41 |
| lcuk | has it got drivers yet? | 14:41 |
| johnx | drivers for the GPU...not 3D for sure | 14:42 |
| johnx | might be basic support for scaling and such | 14:42 |
| lcuk | reasonable, like elsewhere | 14:42 |
| * lcuk looks at his n8x0 | 14:42 | |
| johnx | heh, zaurus, n8x0, ipaq, (tons of other wince devices) | 14:42 |
| lcuk | i tohught wince had dx 3d? | 14:43 |
| lcuk | or are most of them in the same boat? | 14:43 |
| johnx | a lot don't have drivers :) | 14:43 |
| lcuk | or are you on about linux side | 14:43 |
| lcuk | shockingly bad form, all that technology that could be enabled | 14:43 |
| johnx | 3D drivers are (were?) a low priority on a lot of handheld systems | 14:44 |
| lcuk | whether or not its used | 14:44 |
| lcuk | have you seen this wiimote thing on planet today, controlling canola with a severe tip | 14:44 |
| johnx | so what do you do with a team that has limited man power? delay the product? ship without sound drivers? | 14:44 |
| johnx | not yet :) | 14:44 |
| Jake42-2 | it is possible for someone to copy-paste tha whole conversation we had above on a www.pastebin.ca ? (I run IRC throught Java-site so I can't copy more than 3- lines....) | 14:45 |
| lcuk | agreed about shipping is better than waiting, but imation should be interested in actually supplying drivers for their own little component | 14:45 |
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| johnx | Jake42-2, http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/ | 14:45 |
| lcuk | Jake42-2, the whole conversation is logged | 14:45 |
| Jake42-2 | glad to learn it :) | 14:46 |
| opengeekv2 | someone knows if n810 charger works on an n800? | 14:46 |
| johnx | lcuk, the world is never that simple :) | 14:46 |
| lcuk | opengeekv2, yes i do it most days | 14:46 |
| lcuk | johnx +1 | 14:46 |
| opengeekv2 | ok thanks | 14:46 |
| lcuk | johnx, seems to me like intel releasing a cpu without supplying a compiler for it | 14:47 |
| lcuk | or supporting existing compilers.. | 14:47 |
| johnx | lcuk, ah, not quite :) | 14:47 |
| johnx | because intel only put in the features they cared about being there | 14:48 |
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| lcuk | ofcrouse this whole convo isnt important cos omap3 *should* solve it | 14:48 |
| johnx | though actually, here's a good example: intel released celeron CPUs that were SMP capable but didn't flip the bit to enable it | 14:49 |
| lcuk | celeron 300a :D | 14:49 |
| lcuk | mmm no, not smp | 14:49 |
| lcuk | that was 66mhz fsb to 100 | 14:49 |
| johnx | all sorts of motivations for not enabling features, some good, some unfortunate | 14:50 |
| lcuk | damn, work to do. | 14:50 |
| * lcuk puts on his cape and goes working | 14:50 | |
| johnx | for example my wifi card would make an excellent jammer :) | 14:50 |
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| lcuk | catch ya later john | 14:50 |
| johnx | 'later lcuk | 14:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, DRM. | 14:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | I dunno how the ebook sellers stay in business. | 14:53 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, read Valve's comment on it? | 14:53 |
| johnx | nice to see Valve being enlightened about DRM and using it to make buckets full of cash money :) | 14:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, I dunno, maybe? Something recent? | 14:53 |
| johnx | today on slashdot | 14:54 |
| johnx | their legal dept saying "pirates are underserved customers." | 14:54 |
| johnx | and their president saying that he never saw DRM work right (or similar) | 14:54 |
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| pohobbit | hi, is downgrade to os2007 only way to get opera? (n800) | 14:57 |
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| Stskeeps | pohobbit: i'd personally look at the webkit engine first :P | 14:57 |
| Jake42-2 | johnx I found the http://qole.blogspot.com/2008/10/easy-debian-moves-to-extras-devel.html | 14:58 |
| Jake42-2 | but as I understood the new debian isn't free....:( | 14:58 |
| johnx | Jake42-2, what? | 14:58 |
| pohobbit | Stskeeps: how i get webkit? | 14:58 |
| Jake42-2 | I have released it to the non-free section of Extras-Devel | 14:59 |
| Jake42-2 | (it says at the site) | 14:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | pohobbit, Opera is terrible. | 14:59 |
| johnx | Jake42-2, don't worry about that. it's just in the wrong section for a silly reason | 14:59 |
| Stskeeps | http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25752&highlight=webkit , https://garage.maemo.org/projects/webkit-eal/ | 14:59 |
| pohobbit | GeneralAntilles: yes, but works better certain pages | 15:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | pohobbit, and much, much worse on most. | 15:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Especially more than a year down the road. | 15:00 |
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| Jake42-2 | now that I remembered somthing | 15:05 |
| Jake42-2 | the drupal isn't good in my case? | 15:05 |
| johnx | good for what? | 15:06 |
| johnx | it's a perfectly nice blogging system | 15:06 |
| Jake42-2 | but it doesn't support mysql | 15:07 |
| johnx | it's not a web server | 15:07 |
| Jake42-2 | I thought so | 15:08 |
| Jake42-2 | in my previous tries about web server | 15:08 |
| Jake42-2 | somehow | 15:08 |
| johnx | it runs on apache, php, mysql | 15:08 |
| Jake42-2 | a dir /wwwPHP | 15:08 |
| Jake42-2 | created | 15:08 |
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| Jake42-2 | does this remind something? | 15:09 |
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| johnx | well yes. there is lighttpd with php support | 15:10 |
| johnx | you told me you installed it | 15:10 |
| Jake42-2 | should I activate any triger or variable in order to function? | 15:11 |
| johnx | I don't know! | 15:11 |
| johnx | I don't even know PHP | 15:11 |
| Jake42-2 | ... | 15:11 |
| Jake42-2 | it's Ok , I can show you :) | 15:11 |
| Jake42-2 | whatever.. | 15:11 |
| johnx | look, I'm sorry, but I really don't know how to help you | 15:11 |
| Jake42-2 | yes man | 15:12 |
| Jake42-2 | I appreciate all the time you spent previously | 15:12 |
| Jake42-2 | I need some technical help | 15:12 |
| Jake42-2 | about the table, | 15:12 |
| Jake42-2 | about the rest I 'll figure out something | 15:12 |
| johnx | ok. good luck | 15:13 |
| Jake42-2 | now.. | 15:13 |
| Jake42-2 | about the tablet | 15:13 |
| Jake42-2 | I found | 15:13 |
| Jake42-2 | the | 15:13 |
| Jake42-2 | http://www.gronmayer.com/it/index.php?lang=en&system=maemo4&sort=hits&show_pck=124#124 | 15:13 |
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| Jake42-2 | and I scrolled up the page | 15:14 |
| Jake42-2 | I checked to install all the repos | 15:14 |
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| Jake42-2 | how may I check now if they are installed correctly? | 15:14 |
| johnx | it's not a very good idea to install all of those repos | 15:15 |
| johnx | some of them have conflicting packages | 15:15 |
| lcuk | you will know all repos have been installed correctly when your device stops working | 15:15 |
| johnx | you can look in application-manager to see a list of repos available | 15:15 |
| johnx | anyways, I've gotta head out for now | 15:16 |
| * RST38h moos | 15:16 | |
| johnx | good luck | 15:16 |
| lcuk | select repos based on specific packages required, rule of thumb, less is more. | 15:16 |
| johnx | hey RST38h | 15:16 |
| RST38h | glck johnx | 15:16 |
| johnx | back later | 15:16 |
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| lcuk | cya later johnx | 15:16 |
| Jake42-2 | lcuk you are right... but I believe | 15:16 |
| Jake42-2 | it should be something that connects | 15:16 |
| Jake42-2 | apache with php | 15:17 |
| Jake42-2 | and also | 15:17 |
| Jake42-2 | the repos of maemo is empty now, So I need to fill it somehow | 15:17 |
| Jake42-2 | right? | 15:17 |
| RST38h | http://www.reghardware.co.uk/2009/01/19/tyler_international_patent_spat/ | 15:18 |
| RST38h | (The Great Tentacled One! When you start devouring humanity, please, start with the patent lawyers!) | 15:19 |
| Jake42-2 | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=235084&postcount=19 | 15:19 |
| lcuk | have you seen the other news about intel pulling back from releasing new chips | 15:19 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, those patents are folly | 15:20 |
| RST38h | lcuk: this crap basically allows every jobless US lawyer buy himself a vague patent and troll ad infinitum | 15:21 |
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| Jake42-2 | lcuk can you propose any way to insert big urls in N810 | 15:21 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Yea, but on the other hand, Atom was released just on time :) | 15:22 |
| Jake42-2 | through ssh? | 15:22 |
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| lcuk | Jake42-2, no, i use voice recognition | 15:24 |
| lcuk | RST38h, good point | 15:24 |
| Jake42-2 | lcuk ???????????????? HOW????????????? | 15:25 |
| Jake42-2 | o.O | 15:25 |
| lcuk | its quite easy, i see the URL on my desktop machine, and when I say it a few seconds later it appears on one of my nokias | 15:26 |
| lcuk | it only works when its running "girlfriend sat at machine" app | 15:27 |
| Jake42-2 | .......................... | 15:27 |
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| Jake42-2 | you scared me for a sec.... | 15:27 |
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| lcuk | why though, just use your common sense and enter a long piece of information how you enter long irc lines | 15:27 |
| lcuk | you are obviously good at typing | 15:27 |
| lcuk | anyway, im out for the afternoon | 15:28 |
| Jake42-2 | r u here | 15:28 |
| Jake42-2 | ? | 15:28 |
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| Jake42-2 | does anyone has php on N810???? | 15:30 |
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| ccooke | Jake42-2: Not currently, but I tried it briefly a while back | 15:34 |
| Jake42-2 | did you managed | 15:35 |
| Jake42-2 | to display a proper php site? | 15:35 |
| Jake42-2 | (at least the php logo) | 15:35 |
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| wazd | Evening all) | 15:37 |
| ccooke | Jake42-2: I believe so. | 15:38 |
| ccooke | Jake42-2: I ended up giving up on PHP because shell is faster for very simple CGI | 15:38 |
| Jake42-2 | but for me | 15:38 |
| Jake42-2 | I need PHP and mysql (and a web server) | 15:39 |
| ccooke | mmm. | 15:39 |
| ccooke | does it have to be mysql? | 15:39 |
| ccooke | you might find sqlite preferable | 15:39 |
| ccooke | (Much lower resource usage) | 15:40 |
| Jake42-2 | I have made already | 15:40 |
| Jake42-2 | the database | 15:40 |
| Jake42-2 | and a site on LAMP | 15:40 |
| Jake42-2 | and I need to migrate this site on a mobile device | 15:41 |
| ccooke | *nod* Just a suggestion, in case you find things too slow. | 15:41 |
| Jake42-2 | they are slow... | 15:41 |
| Jake42-2 | but I need to make it function | 15:41 |
| Jake42-2 | if it functions, I will try something else | 15:42 |
| Jake42-2 | at the moment I am looking for php | 15:42 |
| Jake42-2 | when I browse 127.0.0.1 the server is ok | 15:42 |
| Jake42-2 | but on 127.0.0.1/test.php | 15:42 |
| ccooke | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25631 - Is this your thread? | 15:43 |
| Jake42-2 | I see the text | 15:43 |
| Jake42-2 | that's right... | 15:43 |
| ccooke | ahh | 15:43 |
| ccooke | you haven't enabled php | 15:43 |
| ccooke | in your server | 15:43 |
| Jake42-2 | I am a little bit desperate | 15:43 |
| Jake42-2 | I don't know how | 15:43 |
| Jake42-2 | can you help me? | 15:43 |
| ccooke | what web server did you use? | 15:43 |
| Jake42-2 | php.ini? | 15:43 |
| Jake42-2 | the apache | 15:43 |
| ccooke | okay. So you have apache running. | 15:44 |
| ccooke | and serving pages | 15:44 |
| Jake42-2 | probably.. | 15:44 |
| ccooke | well, you said you can get to 127.0.0.1 | 15:44 |
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| Jake42-2 | yes.. | 15:44 |
| Jake42-2 | "it works" | 15:44 |
| ccooke | okay. How's the config laid out? | 15:45 |
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| ccooke | do you know much about apache config? | 15:45 |
| Jake42-2 | enough | 15:45 |
| Jake42-2 | (most in ubuntu) | 15:45 |
| ccooke | right | 15:45 |
| ccooke | and you have the apache libphp installed? | 15:45 |
| ccooke | you should be able to find a libphp5.so somewhere | 15:46 |
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| Jake42-2 | hmmm | 15:46 |
| Jake42-2 | w8 to check | 15:46 |
| ccooke | dpkg -L name-of-php-package would show you | 15:47 |
| ccooke | well, dpkg -L name-of-php-package | grep so | 15:47 |
| Jake42-2 | it says "package libphp5.so" isn't installed | 15:48 |
| Jake42-2 | (this is bad :( ) | 15:48 |
| ccooke | that's not going to be the package name | 15:48 |
| ccooke | do this: | 15:48 |
| ccooke | apt-cache search php | 15:48 |
| ccooke | that'll look for a php package in your current repositories | 15:49 |
| ccooke | (I don't see it available in mine) | 15:49 |
| Jake42-2 | yes | 15:49 |
| Jake42-2 | neither mine | 15:49 |
| ccooke | what does it return? | 15:49 |
| ccooke | ah ha | 15:49 |
| ccooke | so, how did you install php? | 15:49 |
| Jake42-2 | php5-cli | 15:49 |
| ccooke | that's not the apache module | 15:49 |
| ccooke | that's a command-line version | 15:50 |
| Jake42-2 | hmmm through synaptic | 15:50 |
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| ccooke | The debian-style naming for php5's apache module is libapache2-mod-php5 | 15:50 |
| Jake42-2 | so i need to install this one... | 15:50 |
| Jake42-2 | (but how?) | 15:50 |
| ccooke | I don't see any version of that for maemo, though | 15:51 |
| Jake42-2 | I have lighthttpweb - this is a test package for a lighthttp/PHP combo | 15:51 |
| ccooke | I won't be able to help with that, I'm afraid - it's not on my n810 and I can't play around installing it atm | 15:52 |
| Jake42-2 | atm? | 15:52 |
| Jake42-2 | I have a file named php.ini that inside is like the equivalent of ubuntu | 15:53 |
| Jake42-2 | when i edit it | 15:54 |
| Jake42-2 | i see | 15:54 |
| Jake42-2 | a variable with comment | 15:54 |
| Jake42-2 | "the directory under which PHP opens the scrip using /~username used only , if nonempty" | 15:54 |
| Jake42-2 | and this variable is named user_dir= | 15:55 |
| Jake42-2 | (but it has no value) | 15:55 |
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| Jake42-2 | ccooke | 15:57 |
| Jake42-2 | have tried php on LAMP? | 15:57 |
| ccooke | sorry? | 15:58 |
| Jake42-2 | on linux | 15:58 |
| ccooke | I'm a sysadmin :-) | 15:59 |
| Jake42-2 | nice | 15:59 |
| Jake42-2 | so | 15:59 |
| Jake42-2 | in N810 | 15:59 |
| Jake42-2 | there is a file named php.ini | 15:59 |
| Jake42-2 | when i installed LAMP | 16:00 |
| ccooke | unfortunately, I'm a sysadmin *at my desk, at work*. So I can't be seen to be fiddling *too* much with a PDA :-) | 16:00 |
| Jake42-2 | yes, you are right | 16:00 |
| ccooke | okay. when you say you installed LAMP, how did you install it? as one package? as several? From where? | 16:00 |
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| Jake42-2 | as several | 16:00 |
| ccooke | what packages were they? | 16:00 |
| Jake42-2 | i found a tutorial on howtoforge | 16:01 |
| Jake42-2 | many | 16:01 |
| ccooke | can you tell me which ones had php in their name? | 16:01 |
| Jake42-2 | (including the reffered lib) | 16:01 |
| Jake42-2 | WAIT | 16:01 |
| Jake42-2 | now i say that this was i procedure I made on my desktop | 16:01 |
| Jake42-2 | On n810 | 16:01 |
| Jake42-2 | i have installed everyhting I found relative with httpd | 16:02 |
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| Jake42-2 | php mysql | 16:02 |
| Jake42-2 | apache | 16:02 |
| Jake42-2 | (or I think, I install everything, maybe something is missing) | 16:02 |
| Jake42-2 | now | 16:02 |
| Jake42-2 | as I see on php.in (N810 's php.ini) | 16:02 |
| ccooke | okay. | 16:03 |
| ccooke | I still need to know the name of the php package you installed on your n810 | 16:03 |
| ccooke | try this: dpkg -S /path/to/your/php.ini | 16:03 |
| ccooke | that'll tell you what package installed the php.ini | 16:03 |
| Jake42-2 | it is as the one in LAMP | 16:03 |
| ccooke | php.ini isn't being reached, yet | 16:03 |
| ccooke | you need to tell your web browser that php exists first. Only then will php start reading php.ini | 16:03 |
| Jake42-2 | Oh... | 16:04 |
| persia | browser? Server? | 16:04 |
| Jake42-2 | but I have installed a pachage for lighthttpd/PHP combo | 16:04 |
| ccooke | persia: server, yes. | 16:04 |
| Jake42-2 | (I want the N810 function as server) | 16:04 |
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| ccooke | Jake42-2: a short while ago, you told me you installed pache | 16:04 |
| ccooke | apache, even | 16:05 |
| Jake42-2 | yes | 16:05 |
| ccooke | do you have both installed? | 16:05 |
| Jake42-2 | yes | 16:05 |
| ccooke | which one is actually *running*? | 16:05 |
| Jake42-2 | I think apache | 16:05 |
| Jake42-2 | because of the "it works" | 16:05 |
| Jake42-2 | when I access 127.0.0.1 | 16:05 |
| ccooke | okay. Let's try this, then | 16:05 |
| ccooke | try running this on your n810: | 16:05 |
| ccooke | find / -name '*php*.so' | 16:06 |
| ccooke | run it as root, please | 16:06 |
| ccooke | and be aware that it could take quite a while! | 16:06 |
| Jake42-2 | it says | 16:07 |
| Jake42-2 | find : /mnt/initfs/sys/module/nousb/parameters/ | 16:07 |
| Jake42-2 | find: /sys/module/nousb/parameters/ | 16:08 |
| Jake42-2 | and next to each of it | 16:08 |
| Jake42-2 | it says | 16:08 |
| Jake42-2 | too many open files | 16:08 |
| ccooke | heh | 16:08 |
| ccooke | still running? | 16:08 |
| ccooke | leave it for now. | 16:08 |
| ccooke | see if it actually finds the file | 16:08 |
| Jake42-2 | no, it finished | 16:08 |
| Jake42-2 | which file? lib apache2-mod-php5 ? | 16:09 |
| ccooke | okay. you don't currently have an apache module for php installed, then | 16:09 |
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| Jake42-2 | then? | 16:10 |
| ccooke | which means the fast apache route won't work. | 16:11 |
| ccooke | did you find the names of the php packages you installed, yet? | 16:11 |
| Jake42-2 | what do you mean? | 16:12 |
| Jake42-2 | the names of the install-files? | 16:12 |
| ccooke | on your n810, please run this: | 16:14 |
| ccooke | dpkg -l '*php*' | 16:14 |
| ccooke | that'll tell us all the packages with pho in the name which your local package manager knows about | 16:14 |
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| Jake42-2 | php5-fastcgi | 16:15 |
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| Jake42-2 | (only :( ) | 16:15 |
| ccooke | okay, good | 16:15 |
| Stskeeps | X-Fade: btw, what does it take to get a blog on planet maemo? | 16:16 |
| ccooke | fastcgi is one of the methods which you can connect a language module like php5 with a web server | 16:16 |
| Stskeeps | X-Fade: as in, getting it aggreated ;) | 16:16 |
| ccooke | it's a specific transport, though - the php scripts will run as their own process instead of inside apache. | 16:17 |
| Jake42-2 | I suppose something more is needed | 16:17 |
| Jake42-2 | next? | 16:17 |
| ccooke | I'd recommend checking the lighttpd configuration for that - it's supposed to be very good with fastcgi | 16:17 |
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| ccooke | I suggest you remove apache and get lighttpd running. | 16:17 |
| Jake42-2 | ok | 16:18 |
| Jake42-2 | how is it done? | 16:18 |
| Jake42-2 | (how...) | 16:18 |
| ccooke | well, you can remove apache in your package manager. | 16:18 |
| ccooke | I'm afraid I've not configured lighttpd recently enough to have it in my memory, so you're probably best checking with google. | 16:19 |
| ccooke | the ligthtpd docs are pretty good, though - check their wiki. | 16:19 |
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| Jake42-2 | but they are the same on N810? | 16:20 |
| Khertan_n810 | hy i can't do a nice ui in gtk ? | 16:22 |
| Khertan_n810 | why | 16:22 |
| Jake42-2 | ccooke how may I uninstall apache? | 16:22 |
| Jake42-2 | (application manager?) | 16:22 |
| Khertan_n810 | apt-get remove apache | 16:22 |
| Stskeeps | gtk is just a marketing ploy to get people to use Qt? ;) | 16:22 |
| Khertan_n810 | stskeeps ... hum ... | 16:22 |
| Khertan_n810 | stskeeps ... how can i make really finger friendly ui in Qt ? | 16:23 |
| Khertan_n810 | :) | 16:23 |
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| Stskeeps | no clue, but Qt for Maemo should theme like hildon i guess | 16:23 |
| Stskeeps | but i dunno | 16:23 |
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| * Khertan_n810 dream of a framework which enable him to do ui with html/css | 16:24 | |
| * Khertan_n810 dream this framework have nice python binding | 16:24 | |
| Stskeeps | well | 16:24 |
| Stskeeps | it is certainly possible :P | 16:24 |
| X-Fade | Khertan_n810: I have seen job offerings for the web runtime team, so it looks like there will be a web runtime some time in the future ;) | 16:25 |
| Jake42-2 | ccooke... do you know how it should be done? | 16:25 |
| Khertan_n810 | X-Fade > there will be one ... | 16:26 |
| Khertan_n810 | there will be one in each device | 16:26 |
| Khertan_n810 | just a matter o f time | 16:26 |
| * Khertan_n810 is more and more looking at the palm pre :) | 16:27 | |
| Khertan_n810 | http://code.google.com/p/pyjamas/ ? | 16:29 |
| Khertan_n810 | maybe | 16:29 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan_n810: pyjamas was basically GWT for python, wasn't it? | 16:30 |
| Stskeeps | did you see PyPy's javascript demos? | 16:30 |
| Khertan_n810 | http://pyjd.sourceforge.net/ | 16:30 |
| Khertan_n810 | nope :) | 16:30 |
| xorAxAx | but pypy translates rpython and not python | 16:30 |
| Khertan_n810 | and pyjama is not what i m looking too ... | 16:31 |
| Khertan_n810 | it s translate python into javascript | 16:31 |
| Stskeeps | xorAxAx: yeah, true, but still interesting concept :) | 16:31 |
| Khertan_n810 | not what i m looking for | 16:31 |
| Khertan_n810 | hum ... what is rpython ? | 16:31 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan_n810: i think the main problem with html widgets as such is the speed | 16:32 |
| Khertan_n810 | stskeeps ... | 16:32 |
| Khertan_n810 | unfortunatly | 16:32 |
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| Khertan_n810 | but when i look at the current look of mCalendar ... | 16:33 |
| Khertan_n810 | it s clearly not a good ui ! | 16:33 |
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| Stskeeps | well, you can always code your own widgets | 16:34 |
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| Stskeeps | then again | 16:35 |
| Stskeeps | i'm an idiot at UIs :) | 16:35 |
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| Khertan_n810 | and i'm a really poor designer | 16:36 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan_n810: http://khertan.net/index.php/pages/mCalendar accurate screenshot? | 16:36 |
| Stskeeps | if so, that's actually good touch wise | 16:36 |
| Stskeeps | it does exactly what it should | 16:36 |
| X-Fade | And there is more possible with qt widgets in the near future ;) | 16:36 |
| Khertan_n810 | yep ... but the problem is the week view | 16:36 |
| Stskeeps | week view is difficult on such a small screen | 16:36 |
| Khertan_n810 | yep | 16:36 |
| Stskeeps | its even a problem at 1024x768 | 16:36 |
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| * Stskeeps tries to get pygtk building | 16:37 | |
| Khertan_n810 | héhé | 16:37 |
| Khertan_n810 | :) | 16:37 |
| Stskeeps | if it can get working, mcalendar should be part ;) | 16:37 |
| Khertan_n810 | hum ... wait for the next version :) | 16:37 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 16:39 |
| Khertan_n810 | http://khertan.net/poubelle/mcalendar_desktop.png <-- a try to run it on my desktop | 16:39 |
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| * Khertan_n810 still think on how notify to the user that a sync is running in the background | 16:40 | |
| Jaffa | Khertan_n810: nice ubuntu theme, and mini-panels. Qu'est que c'est? | 16:40 |
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| aquatix | Khertan_n810: are those widgets at the right gdesklets? | 16:41 |
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| Khertan_n810 | this is google desktop sidebar | 16:41 |
| aquatix | ah | 16:41 |
| Khertan_n810 | there is transparency has i ve compiled myself :) | 16:41 |
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| aquatix | looks a bit off; the scrollbars are windows-y | 16:42 |
| Khertan_n810 | gdesklet crash too often on my computer | 16:42 |
| * aquatix sticks with normal panels | 16:42 | |
| Khertan_n810 | aquatix: this is the style of sidebar in webkit :) | 16:43 |
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| aquatix | Khertan_n810: ah | 16:43 |
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| aquatix | it's in your gtk theme? | 16:43 |
| Khertan_n810 | i think | 16:44 |
| Khertan_n810 | don't remember | 16:44 |
| Khertan_n810 | i ve this one this one year | 16:44 |
| Khertan_n810 | and don't have the time to touch my computer often | 16:44 |
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| Guest48506 | anyone working with libnotify on maemo? | 16:47 |
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| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, do you have any docs on what hacks should be applied to gtk apps so they start supporting virtual keyboard? | 16:47 |
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| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: basically just compiling hildon input method and pointing gtk to it | 16:50 |
| Stskeeps | afaik | 16:50 |
| Stskeeps | and using matchbox wm | 16:50 |
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| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, what do you mean by "pointing gtk to it"? | 16:51 |
| Stskeeps | http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mer-committers/m-r/hildon-desktop-env/annotate/head%3A/debian/postinst | 16:51 |
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| slonopotamus | omg :) crazy hacks | 16:52 |
| Stskeeps | it was worse figuring out how to do it | 16:53 |
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| Khertan_n810 | hum ... there is no gtk widget which display a spinning wheel ? | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | animation cursor? :P | 16:54 |
| Khertan_n810 | just progress bar ? right ? | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan_n810: btw you made a tool for easy packaging of python apps for maemo? | 16:54 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, btw. did you try matchbox-keyboard? | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: yeah | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | it gets annoying as its not so integrated | 16:54 |
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| Stskeeps | Meizirkki_: can i get you to test pygtk in a little while? | 16:58 |
| Stskeeps | when it comes through builder | 16:58 |
| Meizirkki_ | arm or x86? | 16:58 |
| Stskeeps | either one is good | 16:58 |
| Meizirkki_ | arm: yes | 16:58 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, does it at least popup when you enter focus in textfield? :) | 16:58 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: MB? no | 16:58 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, oh. | 16:58 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, that's a major disadvantage | 16:59 |
| Meizirkki_ | x86: i am unpacking mer 0.6 in virtualbox | 16:59 |
| Khertan_n810 | Stskeeps > yep | 16:59 |
| Khertan_n810 | stskeeps: why ? | 16:59 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan_n810: because as part of Mer cleanup we might have to use other debian package names for some things | 16:59 |
| Stskeeps | and if most people use your stuff for their python apps.. | 16:59 |
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| Stskeeps | then it could be useful to have a Mer mode eventually ;) | 17:00 |
| Khertan_n810 | what you mean by other debian package names ? | 17:00 |
| Stskeeps | well, for instance, in Mer it's python-gtk2 debian package name | 17:00 |
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| Stskeeps | whereas in maemo it's python2.5-gtk2 | 17:01 |
| Khertan_n810 | ah and in maemo it s python2.5-gtk2 | 17:01 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 17:01 |
| Stskeeps | and the list goes on | 17:01 |
| Khertan_n810 | hum ... so it s mean doing two package | 17:01 |
| Khertan_n810 | one for mer and the other for maemo | 17:01 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 17:01 |
| Khertan_n810 | hum ... | 17:01 |
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| Stskeeps | and that's stupid, but it is a lot more difficult to move ubuntu, than to move maemo ways :P | 17:02 |
| Khertan_n810 | i think we can avoid that with meta package ? | 17:02 |
| Stskeeps | possibly | 17:02 |
| Stskeeps | i thought of a big metapackage :P | 17:02 |
| Passeli | how do i set application to look libraries from user defined path? | 17:02 |
| Khertan_n810 | than we can be able to install directly maemo apps done in python from extras repository | 17:02 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 17:02 |
| Khertan_n810 | why big ? | 17:02 |
| Stskeeps | well, ok, small :P | 17:03 |
| Stskeeps | big as in representing many small packages ;) | 17:03 |
| Khertan_n810 | just one small with many depandancies | 17:03 |
| Khertan_n810 | or many small :) | 17:03 |
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| Wooly | can I dismiss a hildon banner by clicking on it? | 17:06 |
| Wooly | or rather, is there any way that I can dismiss the banner by clicking on it? | 17:06 |
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| Meizirkki_ | phew, i finally got my virtualbox-mer :P | 17:08 |
| Stskeeps | woo | 17:08 |
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| opengeekv2 | hey can i test it? | 17:10 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, there's a Virtual Disk Image you can download for Virtualbox | 17:10 |
| opengeekv2 | where is it? | 17:11 |
| Stskeeps | http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint#Mer_0.6 | 17:11 |
| Stskeeps | plenty of possibilities | 17:11 |
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| Khertan_n810 | Someone have try the last version of mNotes available in extras-devel ? | 17:13 |
| Khertan_n810 | what do you think of it ? | 17:13 |
| aquatix | mNotes syncs with google notebook? | 17:13 |
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| Wooly | is there any way that I can dismiss the banner by clicking on it? | 17:18 |
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| Stskeeps | Meizirkki: i386 pygtk built | 17:20 |
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| Stskeeps | Meizirkki: i386 pygtk built | 17:21 |
| Meizirkki_ | ok | 17:21 |
| Stskeeps | let's see if armel works too | 17:21 |
| Wooly | has anyone used libnotify1? | 17:21 |
| * Meizirkki_ boots up mer in virtualbox | 17:21 | |
| Khertan_n810 | ... | 17:21 |
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| Stskeeps | Khertan_n810: mm? | 17:21 |
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| Khertan_n810 | aquatix : mnotes doesn't sync with google notebook has this service will disappear | 17:22 |
| Khertan_n810 | s/has/as | 17:22 |
| aquatix | yeah | 17:22 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan_n810: oh, you should consider an application that interfaces with EverNote | 17:22 |
| aquatix | that was my next remark :) | 17:22 |
| Stskeeps | they have IMAP access | 17:22 |
| aquatix | Stskeeps: indeed | 17:22 |
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| Stskeeps | that would be a kickass application | 17:22 |
| Stskeeps | and i'd even pay 10 eur for it :P | 17:22 |
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| Khertan_n810 | stskeeps: "les's see if armel works too" | 17:22 |
| LinuxHack3r | So on my Nokia 810 I bought yesterday...will I be able to install adblock plus, scribus, and del.icio.us in the mozilla based browser? | 17:23 |
| Khertan_n810 | stskeep : for what ? google notebook sync ? | 17:23 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan_n810: yeah, we compile on x86 first to see the worst errors, then in scratchbox | 17:23 |
| Stskeeps | speaking of PyGTK compile :) | 17:23 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: if i have a building libvte, will you experiment with putting maemo changes on top? | 17:23 |
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| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, sure | 17:24 |
| Khertan_n810 | pygtk compile : yep this is why i say : '...' ... as i m waiting the result :) | 17:24 |
| Khertan_n810 | and for evernote ... don't know it | 17:24 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan_n810: http://evernote.com/ | 17:24 |
| Khertan_n810 | http://www.evernote.com/about/what_is_en/ | 17:24 |
| Stskeeps | it already has windows mobile, iphone connection, but not tablet :( | 17:24 |
| Khertan_n810 | i look | 17:24 |
| Stskeeps | they all use the IMAP connection | 17:25 |
| Stskeeps | it would -really- be a killer app | 17:25 |
| johnx | what format are 'notes' kept in? | 17:25 |
| Stskeeps | not sure | 17:25 |
| johnx | i was looking at mono earlier to see if i could make tomboy run | 17:26 |
| Stskeeps | html it looks like | 17:26 |
| Khertan_n810 | which note ? | 17:26 |
| Khertan_n810 | evernote or mnotes ? | 17:26 |
| johnx | ah, well that'd be nice | 17:26 |
| Khertan_n810 | oh my god no ! | 17:26 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, guess he's not interested :) | 17:27 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, if you get a working osso-xterm in there, you have to get dnstase's overlayed transparent keyboard mod :) | 17:27 |
| Khertan_n810 | maybe but text only rendering | 17:27 |
| lcuk | i think it was the mono reference that gave khertan the heartattack ;) | 17:27 |
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| Khertan_n810 | lcuk : indeed ... but the html things too :) | 17:28 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan_n810: i maintain it would be a killer app | 17:28 |
| Stskeeps | especially with upload | 17:28 |
| lcuk | nothing wrong with html, its just pretty xml :) | 17:28 |
| Wooly | does anyone have notify-send? | 17:28 |
| Khertan_n810 | as i don't have yet a good html renderer with python binding | 17:28 |
| lcuk | forests of overlapping trees | 17:28 |
| Khertan_n810 | stskeeps ... i think | 17:29 |
| Khertan_n810 | too | 17:29 |
| Khertan_n810 | but i m waiting my registration email :) | 17:29 |
| lcuk | Khertan_n810, dont you have the core pygtkeditor thingy? isnt that got html formatting/display in it | 17:29 |
| johnx | as for mono, I don't care what language an app is written in, as long as it works | 17:29 |
| lcuk | or was that a core tool you brought from other system? | 17:29 |
| johnx | unless it's vb :) | 17:29 |
| * lcuk slaps johnx with an end sub | 17:30 | |
| Khertan_n810 | johnx : "as long as it works" this is the problem with mono | 17:30 |
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| johnx | well, tomboy notes works great on the desktop | 17:30 |
| Khertan_n810 | hum ... evernotes is slow to load ? | 17:30 |
| Khertan_n810 | 60s for loading a page ... | 17:30 |
| Meizirkki | Stskeeps: what's the packagename for pygtk? | 17:30 |
| johnx | quicknote works well enough on the tablet, though I'll try out mnotes if it can sync to something or easily export | 17:31 |
| Khertan_n810 | or does is it incompatible with webkit ? | 17:31 |
| Stskeeps | Meizirkki: python-gtk2 | 17:31 |
| Meizirkki | ok | 17:31 |
| Khertan_n810 | johnx: quicknote don't take draw or cam screenshot :) | 17:31 |
| johnx | which is fine for me :) | 17:31 |
| johnx | all I want to do is take some notes on the tablet, then sync them to my desktop | 17:31 |
| Stskeeps | xournal + upload to evernote would make me switch from onenote | 17:31 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:31 |
| Khertan_n810 | hum ... evernote is html | 17:32 |
| lcuk | johnx, im 90% done with that :) | 17:33 |
| Khertan_n810 | i don't think doing html wysiwyg on the nit will be not slow | 17:33 |
| RST38h | urgh | 17:33 |
| johnx | lcuk, as text? or as pictures? | 17:33 |
| lcuk | pictures + sketches for now, ive just finished all the dynamic scaling font code i needed | 17:34 |
| Stskeeps | we have pygtk! | 17:34 |
| Stskeeps | on x86 at least | 17:34 |
| johnx | very cool :) | 17:34 |
| * RST38h has pygtk in x86 Ubuntu | 17:34 | |
| Khertan_n810 | - Stronger security via SSL <--- only with paid version | 17:34 |
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| Khertan_n810 | this suck | 17:34 |
| Meizirkki | Stskeeps: i'm not sure if this is related to pygtk, but X refused to start | 17:35 |
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| Stskeeps | Khertan_n810: have to make their money somehow | 17:35 |
| Stskeeps | Meizirkki: weird | 17:35 |
| RST38h | Khertan: What is the product? | 17:35 |
| Meizirkki | Stskeeps: i'm gonna reboot to see if it comes up | 17:35 |
| Khertan_n810 | rst38h: evernote | 17:35 |
| RST38h | ah | 17:35 |
| lcuk | johnx, just finished last night making sure i could specify a font in pt size and scale and render at any resolution, this is my test page showing dynamic resizing of widgets http://liqbase.net/liq.20090119_002738.lib.scr.png it shows image scaling, sketch scaling and text scaling - all instances of the widget can be made live and rendered in realtime at any scale :) | 17:36 |
| Khertan_n810 | i'm sorry ... but they use a strange markup language for evernote ! | 17:36 |
| Khertan_n810 | not real html ... | 17:37 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 17:37 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan_n810: seemed like it was accessible though | 17:37 |
| Stskeeps | in the imap interface | 17:37 |
| Khertan_n810 | but a mix of xhtml and stupid idea | 17:37 |
| Stskeeps | as normal email applications can access it | 17:38 |
| johnx | lcuk, very cool. so will it be liqnotes or part of liqsketch? | 17:38 |
| Khertan_n810 | sure ? | 17:39 |
| lcuk | this is the core ui ive been aiming towards, the library. with it im gonna be bringing in liqsketch and liqreader and i might be evil and do a fully dynamic calendar | 17:39 |
| Khertan_n810 | i don't see it anywhere in the dev references | 17:39 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan_n810: i guess it's a matter of trying to connect to it with imap | 17:39 |
| lcuk | theres loads of practical things that can be done with it | 17:39 |
| Stskeeps | and see what kind of format it spits out | 17:39 |
| Khertan_n810 | lcuk ? a calendar ? | 17:39 |
| Khertan_n810 | you are interesting me | 17:39 |
| lcuk | ive been telling you for months this is what i wanted khertan | 17:40 |
| lcuk | i told you i know nothing about talking to google etc and you are great at it | 17:40 |
| lcuk | i really want to give you a uyi front end to play with and let you work on the backend | 17:40 |
| lcuk | same with barcodes and other pim aspects and bookreaders and email and all sorts of apps | 17:40 |
| * lcuk is working as fast as he can to deliver something that looks good and works well on this device for ALL of us | 17:41 | |
| Khertan_n810 | héhé | 17:41 |
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| Khertan_n810 | do as you can ... same problem here ;) | 17:41 |
| lcuk | we are working from opposite ends khertan, i hope we meet in the middle :) | 17:42 |
| Khertan_n810 | hope too :) | 17:42 |
| Khertan_n810 | stskeeps : i m sorry ... but i don't like evernotes ... | 17:42 |
| * lcuk will handle the sketching ;) | 17:43 | |
| lcuk | i have plans for that | 17:43 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan_n810: mmkay | 17:43 |
| Meizirkki | How can i test pygtk? | 17:43 |
| johnx | Khertan_n810, so what format does mnotes use? | 17:43 |
| Khertan_n810 | stskeeps : they are using a special format that will too slow to render in the tablet | 17:43 |
| Khertan_n810 | johnx ... text :) | 17:44 |
| Khertan_n810 | utf8 :) | 17:44 |
| johnx | ok, that's a start :) | 17:44 |
| Khertan_n810 | and png for sketch and jpg for cam screenshot | 17:44 |
| Stskeeps | Meizirkki: http://rafb.net/p/C1McR029.html | 17:44 |
| Stskeeps | put it in test.py and python test.py from inside roxterm or whatever | 17:44 |
| Meizirkki | ok | 17:44 |
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| Khertan_n810 | type import pygtk in python interpreter | 17:45 |
| Meizirkki | Stskeeps: panel transparency is gone | 17:45 |
| Khertan_n810 | it ll be a good start :) | 17:45 |
| Khertan_n810 | then "import hildon" | 17:45 |
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| Stskeeps | Khertan_n810: we dont have hildon just yetg | 17:45 |
| Stskeeps | gtk is first step :) | 17:45 |
| Khertan_n810 | ah :) | 17:45 |
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| Khertan_n810 | so gtk.Window5°.show5° | 17:46 |
| Khertan_n810 | 5 and ° are parenthesis | 17:46 |
| Khertan_n810 | :) | 17:46 |
| johnx | thoughts about showing the root password as it's typed in first-boot-wizard for mer? | 17:46 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: zenity will use the typical method of *'ing out after showing character typed | 17:47 |
| Stskeeps | AFAIK | 17:47 |
| * Khertan_n810 is thinking of doing is own web site with notes , agenda ... and tasks | 17:47 | |
| johnx | hmm? neat | 17:47 |
| johnx | I had no idea | 17:47 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: nokia way :P | 17:47 |
| johnx | woo! | 17:47 |
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| Jaffa | Yay, another fixed-width vs. fluid-width vs. proportional-width argument at work. | 17:49 |
| Meizirkki | Stskeeps: it seems to work... | 17:50 |
| Stskeeps | Meizirkki: woo | 17:50 |
| johnx | Jaffa, shoot the ones that think fixed width is a good idea in 2009. have the discussion with the rest of them | 17:50 |
| Meizirkki | i upload a screenshot about it? | 17:50 |
| Stskeeps | Meizirkki: sure | 17:50 |
| * Stskeeps waits for armel build | 17:50 | |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Buy a full hd screen or higher resolution and you have your answer ready ;) | 17:50 |
| Khertan_n810 | stskeeps ... ok you provide me pygtk in mer ... and i try to sync mnotes with evernotes | 17:51 |
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| Khertan_n810 | maybe you will not be able to edit html notes ... | 17:51 |
| Stskeeps | hehe, that's fine | 17:51 |
| Stskeeps | i didnt say edit, just export | 17:51 |
| Khertan_n810 | but you ll be able to see it at least | 17:51 |
| Stskeeps | or perhaps view | 17:51 |
| Khertan_n810 | if you want just export it should be simple | 17:52 |
| Khertan_n810 | as you can import it in evernote with just an email | 17:52 |
| Meizirkki | Stskeeps: http://trac.tspre.org/meiz/screenshots/pygtk.png | 17:52 |
| Khertan_n810 | but i prefer to do a sync ... it ll be better | 17:52 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade/johnx: I've logged in during my paternity leave to weigh in. Our designers (plural, now :-/) want everything to be exactly as they lay it out, so that their usable designs don't get made unusable by silly users just always maximising their browser windows. | 17:52 |
| Stskeeps | Meizirkki: ta :) | 17:52 |
| Meizirkki | it looks alright? | 17:52 |
| Khertan_n810 | GREAT ! | 17:52 |
| * Jaffa goes back to MUD. Much more fun | 17:53 | |
| Khertan_n810 | need hildon binding now :) | 17:53 |
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| Khertan_n810 | jaffa : could you try to compile gtksourceview with mud ? | 17:53 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Oh, yeah.. Exactly as layed out.. There's flash for that ;) | 17:53 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: or PDF. | 17:53 |
| Khertan_n810 | and his python binding to upload them to extra repository ? | 17:53 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: heh, 30 minutes to build pygtk on armel so far | 17:54 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: but it succeeded :) | 17:54 |
| johnx | well, let's hope it works the first time :) | 17:54 |
| Meizirkki | arm built already? | 17:55 |
| Meizirkki | s/arm/pygtk for arm/ | 17:55 |
| Stskeeps | 30 minutes build time, "built already", pfft :P | 17:55 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 17:55 |
| Stskeeps | please test on there too if you can :) | 17:55 |
| Meizirkki | okay | 17:55 |
| Stskeeps | back in the days it took 48 hours to compile gtk! | 17:55 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:55 |
| Jaffa | Khertan_n810: Oh, joy. The Debian package has masses of build-depends. | 17:55 |
| Khertan_n810 | :) | 17:56 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: MUD's purpose is basically to take debian packages, try to build them for maemo easily? | 17:56 |
| Stskeeps | or what is it again? | 17:56 |
| * qwerty12 curses the MicroB way of building packages of extensions | 17:56 | |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: make packages easily, from upstream tarballs or Debian, or svn, or ... | 17:57 |
| Stskeeps | k | 17:57 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, do you use maemo version of gtk? as far as i understood they did something bad to it? | 17:57 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: depends on perspective | 17:57 |
| Stskeeps | it's getting better | 17:58 |
| Stskeeps | there's getting less and less deltas | 17:58 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, they did things to it that make it more usable with hildon and on the tablet, but they are changes that don't make sense for most desktop distributions | 17:58 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, i mean it's patched, right? | 17:58 |
| Stskeeps | yes, it's patched from their side :) | 17:59 |
| Stskeeps | and a bit from ours i think | 17:59 |
| Stskeeps | http://code.launchpad.net/m-r <- good place to start | 17:59 |
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| slonopotamus | bazaar... ok, my gentoo can do bazaar ;) | 18:00 |
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| slonopotamus | 104 branches o_O | 18:01 |
| Khertan_n810 | http://xml.evernote.com/pub/evernote-export.dtd | 18:01 |
| Khertan_n810 | pfff | 18:01 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: we've been fucking busy :P | 18:02 |
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| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, what prefix do main branches have? i see several hildon-desktop, for example | 18:02 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: that was because suddenly we got hit by fremantle alpha sdk and unupdated SVN branches | 18:03 |
| Stskeeps | usually, mer-committers is the top one | 18:03 |
| slonopotamus | and why on earth it isn't alphabetically sorted | 18:03 |
| slonopotamus | k. mer-committers. | 18:03 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, always follow the latest revision. if it's stuff Stskeeps and I both work on it's in mer-committers | 18:04 |
| Stskeeps | (or r2d2rogers, imager) :P | 18:04 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, ok | 18:04 |
| slonopotamus | johnx, do you have source repo? | 18:04 |
| Stskeeps | http://repository.mer.tspre.org/pool/ has sources in them for 90% of the stuff | 18:05 |
| slonopotamus | thx | 18:05 |
| Stskeeps | last 10% is kernels and some crap that was difficult | 18:05 |
| * Stskeeps goes check how big the repo is now | 18:05 | |
| slonopotamus | don't be afraid, i'm not going to download it all ;) | 18:06 |
| Stskeeps | 188mb :P | 18:06 |
| Stskeeps | not so bad | 18:06 |
| slonopotamus | version: 2:2.12.12-1maemo3mer7 | 18:07 |
| Stskeeps | yes, it gets branchy | 18:07 |
| slonopotamus | 2:2.12.12-1maemo3mer7-gentoo1 | 18:07 |
| slonopotamus | that's crazy | 18:07 |
| Stskeeps | http://qgil.jaiku.com/presence/52078129#comments | 18:08 |
| Stskeeps | Harmattan and then Ilmatar | 18:08 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:08 |
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| slonopotamus | i wonder what you'll do when you add some package to mer and then it will be added to both ubuntu and maemo ;) | 18:09 |
| Wooly | is there any way that I can dismiss a hildon banner by clicking on it? | 18:09 |
| Stskeeps | Wooly: not sure | 18:09 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: madness1 | 18:10 |
| slonopotamus | muahaha ;) | 18:10 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: Madness wouldn't have been a bad name for mer | 18:10 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:10 |
| X-Fade | Wooly: No, that wasn't in the gui spec, I believe .. | 18:10 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, testing distro codename maybe? | 18:10 |
| X-Fade | There was a bug about that, I seem to recall. | 18:10 |
| johnx | so 'stable' 'madness' and 'brick'? | 18:11 |
| Wooly | X-Fade: Thanks. Do you know if there is a notification system which allows me to dismiss-by-click? | 18:11 |
| slonopotamus | i don't like maemo packages. they don't separate upstream code with their patches | 18:11 |
| slonopotamus | that's why your repo is so big | 18:11 |
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| slonopotamus | this all complicates updating | 18:12 |
| X-Fade | Wooly: I have no idea. What bothers you about the current one? The time-out? | 18:13 |
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| trenka | slonopotamus: I always sepatate upstream code from patches | 18:14 |
| Wooly | I need to be able to both leave the messages to time-out, and dismiss by click | 18:14 |
| slonopotamus | trenka, you're good then ;) | 18:14 |
| trenka | even if it makes work with VCS more difficult | 18:14 |
| X-Fade | Wooly: Well you can click on OK buttons orso? System dialogs? | 18:14 |
| trenka | slonopotamus: so, your statement is not true | 18:14 |
| Wooly | could I place a button inside a banner? | 18:14 |
| slonopotamus | trenka, http://repository.mer.tspre.org/pool/main/g/gtk+2.0/gtk+2.0_2.12.12-1maemo3mer7.tar.gz this is ugly | 18:15 |
| X-Fade | I leave that to people with more experience ;) | 18:15 |
| trenka | I do not maintain gtk, sorry | 18:15 |
| Khertan_n810 | stskeep : evernote require a developper key ... | 18:15 |
| Khertan_n810 | stskeeps: and it seems it s a long process to obtain one | 18:16 |
| Wooly | X-Fade: thanks anyway :) | 18:17 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: hehe, some of the stuff is my fault :) | 18:17 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan_n810: hm, think you can use IMAP without | 18:17 |
| slonopotamus | trenka, that's 3 levels of patches | 18:17 |
| slonopotamus | trenka, debian, maemo and mer | 18:17 |
| slonopotamus | trenka, on top of upstream code | 18:17 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: if we looked at IRCd code in the same view, it would be insane :> | 18:18 |
| Khertan_n810 | stskeeps ... if i found how to use imap ... there is nothing about it | 18:19 |
| Khertan_n810 | maybe only available in non free version | 18:19 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan_n810: http://evernote.com/about/support/imap.php | 18:22 |
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| slonopotamus | it will be fun if i make it possible to run 'emerge mer' or 'emerge maemo' ;) | 18:23 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 18:23 |
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| Khertan_n810 | stskeeps: thans | 18:26 |
| Khertan_n810 | thx | 18:26 |
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| rjelari | have a basic question. when you click on folder, whose responsibility to load the data into the model?. is it application side? or any APi is provided by hildonfm ? | 18:28 |
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| slonopotamus | 'Diablo kernel that boots from rootfs instead of initfs, and runs /sbin/tablet-init instead of init' why you didn't like /sbin/init? | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: we wanted to do some things before upstart starts up | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | so | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | we dont have initfs yet so | 18:30 |
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| *** Cazou has left #maemo | 18:31 | |
| Stskeeps | as upstart may take time before starting dsme and hence causing a watchdog reboott | 18:31 |
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| slonopotamus | oh my | 18:32 |
| RST38h | http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2009/01/11925.jpg | 18:32 |
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| Stskeeps | RST38h: <3 | 18:34 |
| lcuk | RST38h, what time is it? | 18:34 |
| Stskeeps | bacontime! | 18:34 |
| wazd | Just used Nokia E90. Pretty nice device overall I shoud say) | 18:35 |
| lcuk | how would you ever get anywhere if it was bacontime all the time | 18:35 |
| RST38h | bacontime =) | 18:35 |
| RST38h | wazd: and it looks like a gunholder when in your pocket | 18:36 |
| wazd | And my ISP bought ticket to some cazy gay cruise ship so I have to use gprs even at home | 18:36 |
| RST38h | Is it RINET by any chance? | 18:36 |
| opengeekv2 | hi wazd | 18:37 |
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| wazd | RST38h: maybe) but the keyboard felt really comfy | 18:37 |
| opengeekv2 | have you seen my comment | 18:37 |
| lcuk | right, ill be back at quarter past bacontime | 18:37 |
| wazd | Rst38h: yeah) | 18:37 |
| slonopotamus | oh no :( openoffice is masked in gentoo for arm | 18:37 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: did you ever see an error like http://trac.tspre.org:8000/vte=1:0.17.4-0ubuntu1mer2_jaunty-armel-1232381310.log | 18:38 |
| opengeekv2 | ? | 18:38 |
| Stskeeps | (the bottom) | 18:38 |
| RST38h | wazd: Weird, it was once a very decent ISP with lots of high-internet-profile clients | 18:38 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, nope :/ | 18:38 |
| slonopotamus | 1:0.17.4-0ubuntu1mer2_jaunty. oh my. | 18:38 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, this is a shared lib? | 18:38 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: yes | 18:39 |
| Stskeeps | libvte | 18:39 |
| wazd | Rst38h: it still has those clients, but it totally screws up on our house | 18:39 |
| slonopotamus | i think you'll get buffer overflow on version length soon | 18:39 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, is it buildable in sdk? | 18:39 |
| wazd | hey opengeekv2 | 18:39 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: yes, but dies in the dh_shlibdeps thing | 18:39 |
| Khertan_n810 | bye | 18:40 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, can I dist-upgrade MER_ARMEL? If so, then I could look at it. | 18:40 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: yeah | 18:40 |
| wazd | Rst38h: our house is one of the oldest rinet clients. | 18:40 |
| Stskeeps | fakeroot apt-get dist-upgrade | 18:40 |
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| Meizirkki | pygtk works in n810 too :) | 18:40 |
| wazd | So all the hardware is really old | 18:40 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, cool. Will do so after I finish of packaging wmlbrowser for extras-devel. | 18:40 |
| qwerty12 | *off | 18:40 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: alright | 18:40 |
| RST38h | wazd: oldest were all dialup ;) | 18:40 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: it builds fine in x86 so :P | 18:40 |
| Stskeeps | i wonder where the old debhelper comes from though | 18:41 |
| wazd | Rst38h: well, I'm talking bout dedicated line) | 18:41 |
| Stskeeps | oh ffs | 18:41 |
| Stskeeps | debian devkit | 18:41 |
| wazd | opengeekv2: I saw your comment but I haven't undestood what you were describing( | 18:42 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: have you seen my grid layout for menu?) | 18:43 |
| Stskeeps | show me | 18:43 |
| wazd | I haven't got the link right now | 18:44 |
| Stskeeps | alright | 18:44 |
| wazd | I'm from n800( | 18:44 |
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| wazd | But you can find it in logs I think | 18:45 |
| qwerty12 | http://s59.radikal.ru/i164/0901/e7/74194f8a93f8.jpg | 18:45 |
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| Stskeeps | wazd: ah, yes! i loved it | 18:45 |
| Stskeeps | am i strange for being OK with it being full screen too? like, all the way to the right | 18:46 |
| Stskeeps | in rotation less is of course ok too ;) | 18:47 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: then it would be irrotatable | 18:48 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: technically no :P | 18:48 |
| Stskeeps | it would fit with width still | 18:48 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: well, you'll have to change icons arrangement, so it would harm UX | 18:49 |
| opengeekv2 | ok i can try to explain you it via IRC | 18:49 |
| opengeekv2 | ? | 18:49 |
| opengeekv2 | here I go... | 18:50 |
| opengeekv2 | firts i want to ask you something | 18:50 |
| wazd | http://s43.radikal.ru/i099/0901/5b/1d7f35bb9bc2.jpg | 18:50 |
| wazd | Tech info) | 18:50 |
| wazd | opengeekv2: go on) | 18:51 |
| opengeekv2 | why you pot the app menu in the middle of the top bar? | 18:51 |
| wazd | I've explained it in my blog, cause it's not a «hotspot» in current ui | 18:52 |
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| wazd | So user can just tap in the middle and he would knew what he will trigger | 18:53 |
| opengeekv2 | yes but a square menu opened in the midel of the app will cover a lo t the"body of the app | 18:54 |
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| wazd | So what? Why do you need the body of the app when you're interacting with menu, not the app | 18:55 |
| opengeekv2 | it's true XD | 18:55 |
| Wooly | has anyone used libnotify on maemo? | 18:56 |
| opengeekv2 | and you think that the correct place for it is i the middle and the place of your quicklist is nect to the "mer logo" | 18:56 |
| opengeekv2 | ok | 18:57 |
| opengeekv2 | and what if we think in your "quicklist" as a tab browser? | 18:57 |
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| opengeekv2 | each icon is a tab | 18:58 |
| opengeekv2 | and the tab at left is the current app | 18:58 |
| wazd | It acts totally same way as quick switcher in current maemo | 18:58 |
| opengeekv2 | not exactly | 18:59 |
| wazd | It's just horizonal and wider | 18:59 |
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| opengeekv2 | yes | 18:59 |
| wazd | But no differences in behavior | 19:00 |
| opengeekv2 | is like merging the quick switcher with the tittle and the menu of the app | 19:00 |
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| opengeekv2 | it has a difference when you tap an icon the menu of the app apears | 19:00 |
| *** b-man is now known as b-man|N800 | 19:01 | |
| *** GeneralAntilles changes topic to "Web Design meeting January 21st @ 14:00 UTC in #maemo-meeting | http://maemo.org | Maemo Community Council http://maemo.org/community/council | http://mxr.maemo.org | http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog" | 19:01 | |
| Stskeeps | b-man|N800: hehe, aren't you always on your n800? ;) | 19:01 |
| b-man|N800 | yes, i just like to mess with /nick :) | 19:01 |
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| *** b-man|N800 is now known as FireFox | 19:02 | |
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| Stskeeps | FireFox: keep in mind that nickname may be registered | 19:02 |
| opengeekv2 | its like a "Dock" | 19:02 |
| FireFox | ok :) | 19:02 |
| *** FireFox is now known as Fun | 19:02 | |
| wazd | opengeekv2: well, I think it will be not so obvious for maemo users. But that idea sounded here before) | 19:03 |
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| Stskeeps | Fun: .. and that sudden and pointless nick changes is frowned upon :> | 19:03 |
| Fun | hehe | 19:03 |
| Stskeeps | right, back to being a grumpy old coder | 19:03 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:03 |
| * Fun turns back to b-man | 19:04 | |
| *** Fun is now known as b-man | 19:04 | |
| b-man | done ;) | 19:04 |
| wazd | Dock (if we're talking bout OSX one) has a bit different functionality | 19:04 |
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| opengeekv2 | yes | 19:05 |
| Wooly | anyone here used libnotify on maemo? | 19:06 |
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| Stskeeps | Wooly: perhaps your question would be better off asked on the developers list in this case | 19:06 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, I've finished uploading wmlbrowser to extras-devel so now I can take a look at vte :) | 19:06 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: alright | 19:06 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: i suspect it's simply cos it's an old debhelper | 19:06 |
| opengeekv2 | wazd: more graphically | 19:06 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: so if you tear your hair out over it, it's probably that | 19:06 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, hope that's all :) | 19:06 |
| Wooly | Stskeeps: will do, although unsure what that means! :D | 19:07 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: you can check it on x86 and patch it on x86 though | 19:07 |
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| qwerty12 | Wooly, https://lists.maemo.org/mailman//listinfo/maemo-developers | 19:07 |
| Wooly | Stskeeps: thanks | 19:07 |
| wazd | opengeekv2: not only, it's application manager also. You can run apps or uninstall them from dock | 19:07 |
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| opengeekv2 | |mer icon|current app icon|other oppened apps icons|notification area|minimize|close| | 19:08 |
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| opengeekv2 | tapping on the current app icon will open the aplication menu | 19:09 |
| Vulcanis | for? | 19:09 |
| lcuk | very busy and confusing for user - do we want another toolstrip or primary uiheader for the user? | 19:09 |
| wazd | Rearranging opened applications order is very bad idea | 19:09 |
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| opengeekv2 | why? | 19:10 |
| opengeekv2 | it is not too different form the wazd desings | 19:10 |
| wazd | Cause user remembers the order and it's really frustrating if your windows will toss everytime you click on one of them | 19:11 |
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| opengeekv2 | if you swap the position with the current you only have to remember two positions | 19:12 |
| opengeekv2 | the oter ones remain at the same place | 19:13 |
| wazd | And in my variant you only remember one | 19:13 |
| opengeekv2 | yes | 19:13 |
| wazd | So what's the point of that rather confusing actions?) | 19:14 |
| opengeekv2 | what do you mean? | 19:14 |
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| wazd | All that icon swaps | 19:14 |
| opengeekv2 | have the current app at the same place | 19:15 |
| roope | Swapping is baaad. | 19:15 |
| wazd | I want to have pidgin always in the beginning of the list | 19:15 |
| wazd | I can't do that with your layout | 19:15 |
| lcuk | why pidgin high priority? | 19:15 |
| wazd | Cause it will always jump somewhere | 19:16 |
| opengeekv2 | pot it on the system tray | 19:16 |
| lcuk | especially if its not running | 19:16 |
| lcuk | with some fertilizer | 19:16 |
| opengeekv2 | or notification area | 19:16 |
| wazd | Pidgin was an example) | 19:16 |
| lcuk | it was an app | 19:16 |
| wazd | Yep | 19:16 |
| lcuk | thats what the start menu was for | 19:16 |
| lcuk | i thought this was about running apps | 19:16 |
| opengeekv2 | put it on the notification area | 19:17 |
| wazd | I need it first in line as a task | 19:17 |
| wazd | Running task | 19:17 |
| lcuk | why? | 19:17 |
| wazd | Ok, I want xterm to be first in task | 19:17 |
| opengeekv2 | maby this way hackes will understand XD | 19:17 |
| wazd | I can't put it into the notifiation area | 19:18 |
| lcuk | shouldnt it be a fifo buffer? like windows task doofer and linux task ddoofer and every other task doofer or tab list thingy? | 19:18 |
| opengeekv2 | can we add a function to block positions? | 19:18 |
| lcuk | why? i cant do it on other notification icon thingies | 19:18 |
| opengeekv2 | like "right cilck" block | 19:18 |
| wazd | Lcuk: I don't get your point right now) Do you agree with task swaping in list or not?) | 19:19 |
| opengeekv2 | wazd+ | 19:19 |
| roope | Look at the windows task bar. | 19:19 |
| roope | The tasks stay still when the user swaps between them. | 19:20 |
| roope | it helps task switching. | 19:20 |
| wazd | opengeekv2: for what we are doing all that complicated stuff with swaping and position block modes?) | 19:20 |
| opengeekv2 | to have ever the currnt app menu at the same plane and in a place that no distur the vision of the app | 19:21 |
| opengeekv2 | plane = place | 19:21 |
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| wazd | opengeekv2: current app menu is already always in the same place | 19:21 |
| lcuk | +1 roope, sorry had to vanish, yes win task bar is expected behaviour | 19:21 |
| wazd | In the middle | 19:22 |
| lcuk | bbsoon | 19:22 |
| lcuk | 1/2hour) | 19:22 |
| opengeekv2 | in the middle it disturbs | 19:22 |
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| wazd | Lcuk: and that's my point too) | 19:22 |
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| wazd | opengeekv2: right now you have task icon on the left and task menu on the top. It's even more disturbing) | 19:23 |
| opengeekv2 | no i mean i the left of the top XD | 19:24 |
| * Stskeeps aims a hammer at python2.5-hildon | 19:24 | |
| opengeekv2 | like this | 19:24 |
| * qwerty12 takes the resulting hit. OUCH. | 19:24 | |
| opengeekv2 | |mer icon|current app icon|other oppened apps icons|notification area|minimize|close| | 19:24 |
| wazd | I'm talking bout Diablo layout | 19:25 |
| TrueJournals | opengeekv2: I don't see the benefit of that over just highlighting the current app | 19:25 |
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| opengeekv2 | to distinguishe it from other apps ar opened | 19:26 |
| Jaffa | The problem with just highlighting is what do you do when the current doesn't fit in the slots? Actually, what does Maemo do there? show no highlight unless you click the >> expander? | 19:27 |
| TrueJournals | But doesn't maemo currently do that fine by just highlighting the current app icon? | 19:27 |
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| TrueJournals | Jaffa: The currently open app is highlighted first when you open the task switcher | 19:28 |
| Jaffa | Cool | 19:28 |
| Jaffa | What I expected. Actually could've tested since I'm on my tablet now | 19:29 |
| TrueJournals | I don't see the benefit of moving the icons around... | 19:29 |
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| opengeekv2 | is to have the current app ever at the same place | 19:29 |
| wazd | no, swaping is totally bad thing | 19:29 |
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| TrueJournals | opengeekv2: But what benefit results from that? | 19:29 |
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| wazd | You need to have all apps in the same place | 19:30 |
| opengeekv2 | dont have the current app menu inthe middle of the screen | 19:30 |
| wazd | Not only opened | 19:30 |
| TrueJournals | I don't see how that makes things easier. I get used to where an app is when I have multiple open, I wouldn't want them switching around | 19:30 |
| Stskeeps | ok, does anyone have a list of deprecated widgets in Maemo 5? | 19:30 |
| opengeekv2 | ok you are in tru when you say taht switching is problematic | 19:31 |
| andre__ | Stskeeps, i don't think that list is available yet | 19:31 |
| Stskeeps | k | 19:31 |
| * Stskeeps is setting up python bindings so | 19:32 | |
| opengeekv2 | but i think that the change of place of the current app menu ti the middle is not a good thing | 19:32 |
| opengeekv2 | i dont see the utility of having it there | 19:32 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: tiny problem with middle app menu | 19:33 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: what about the multi level menus? | 19:33 |
| Stskeeps | like, menu inside menu | 19:33 |
| wazd | Current app menu is already in the middle. I've just made it narrow | 19:33 |
| opengeekv2 | ok i had an idea to solve the porblem | 19:34 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: and what's the problem? | 19:34 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: try to think of how the menu unfolds | 19:34 |
| opengeekv2 | what if when you tap the menu app it apears like a traditional menubar on desktop | 19:34 |
| Stskeeps | (look at how menu unfolds into multiple level, like a staircase, or a flying spaghetti monster, just only to the right) | 19:34 |
| opengeekv2 | vertical | 19:35 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:35 |
| opengeekv2 | hortizontal | 19:35 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: same way as it unfolds now | 19:35 |
| Jaffa | wazd: I think the concern is that the left border of tyhe menu will open further to the right. | 19:36 |
| wazd | opengeekv2: first of all, what problem you're trying to solve? | 19:36 |
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| opengeekv2 | the menu app shadowing the body of the app | 19:36 |
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| opengeekv2 | maybe is usless to see the body but covering it a lot is antiestethic | 19:37 |
| wazd | opengeekv2: iphone menu covers 100% of app's body for example. Don't see anyting antiesthetic here | 19:38 |
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| wazd | More than that, maybe we can do app menu something like in canola2 | 19:39 |
| TrueJournals | I assume we're refering to http://tabletui.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/mer3.jpg?w=800&h=480 ...? | 19:39 |
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| wazd | To make it fingerfriendly at last | 19:39 |
| opengeekv2 | the app menu i refer to the menu that has actions like File, Edit, View... | 19:39 |
| TrueJournals | opengeekv2: But you're referring to where it is placed in that mockup? | 19:40 |
| wazd | opengeekv2: me 2) | 19:40 |
| opengeekv2 | yes | 19:41 |
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| TrueJournals | What about just making the right side of the menu align with the right side of that icon when it opens? | 19:41 |
| opengeekv2 | i've drawn something with pen i i've taken a pictuer i sent it right now | 19:43 |
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| zenvoid | hmmm... it seems that you are having a lot fun with the placement of things in the desktop ;-) | 19:45 |
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| opengeekv2 | yess XD | 19:47 |
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| opengeekv2 | but i cant pas the photos via bluetotth i go to find the usb | 19:47 |
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| Stskeeps | zenvoid: getting bloody close to having python-osso and hildon now too :P pygtk got working earlier | 19:49 |
| zenvoid | Stskeeps: nice! I'm trying the virtualbox image right now | 19:49 |
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| Stskeeps | hehe, hope you got the whole :P bloody big thing | 19:50 |
| zenvoid | btw, the upstart included in 0.6 is from jaunty of sdk5 beta ? | 19:50 |
| zenvoid | s/of/or/ | 19:51 |
| opengeekv2 | ican take the picture | 19:51 |
| opengeekv2 | cant | 19:51 |
| Stskeeps | zenvoid: there's no upstart in fremantle sdk, sadly | 19:51 |
| opengeekv2 | sorry | 19:51 |
| zenvoid | Stskeeps: oops, i think I've read somewhere that they were switching to upstart (?) | 19:51 |
| Stskeeps | zenvoid: yeah, they are, but not in pre-alpha sdk | 19:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | They are | 19:52 |
| zenvoid | ah, ok | 19:52 |
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| Stskeeps | we use ubuntus atm :P | 19:52 |
| opengeekv2 | wazd in fact the onli think that dont like to me is have the menu with File, Edit ...etc shadowing the body of the app | 19:52 |
| opengeekv2 | if the button is in the middle or is right or is left is not a poorblem for me | 19:53 |
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| Stskeeps | zenvoid: http://trac.tspre.org/meiz/screenshots/pygtk.png :) | 19:54 |
| * zenvoid realy wants to start creating lots of things for Mer ;-) | 19:56 | |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 19:56 |
| Stskeeps | plenty of opportunity :> | 19:56 |
| Jaffa | opengeekv2: I think changing that in mer is a step too far from maemo, and from the potential-futurre-UIs shown at the summit, it's going to get "worse" | 19:56 |
| Stskeeps | true | 19:56 |
| Stskeeps | i never saw those mockups | 19:56 |
| Jaffa | Imagine the app start or task nav menus (finger friendly, grey b/g) in a grid for the app's menu | 19:57 |
| Stskeeps | kinda like wazd's mockup earlier | 19:58 |
| opengeekv2 | yes couse me and gimp are not too friends | 19:58 |
| Stskeeps | opengeekv2: it's worse under paint :> | 19:58 |
| zenvoid | I have a problem with imager, I'll look at it later since I need to go now | 19:58 |
| Stskeeps | have fun | 19:58 |
| johnx | Jaffa, and that's for the menu to launch applications or the menu to pick "save, copy, paste"? | 19:58 |
| opengeekv2 | the menu for file edit view... | 19:59 |
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| johnx | opengeekv2, I understand what you're talking about. I wanted to make sure Jaffa was talking about the same thing | 19:59 |
| opengeekv2 | OH OK SORRY | 20:00 |
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| johnx | :) | 20:00 |
| Jaffa | johnx: correct | 20:00 |
| johnx | wow | 20:00 |
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| Jaffa | I suppose accurate possessive punctuation can be confusing on IRC where people may have ESL | 20:00 |
| Stskeeps | ESL? | 20:01 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 20:01 |
| opengeekv2 | stksteps+1 | 20:01 |
| Jaffa | English as a Second Language | 20:01 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, english (as a) second language :) | 20:01 |
| opengeekv2 | ok | 20:01 |
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| * Jaffa goes TLAtastic | 20:02 | |
| johnx | I wonder how much more work that will be for people porting apps... | 20:02 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: i found an elegant solution to the python problem btw | 20:02 |
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| johnx | really? | 20:02 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: remove the bloody python-2.5-gtk (>= something) thing from the hildon/osso packages | 20:03 |
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| opengeekv2 | ok i deffinetely thinkl that i would hjae to start to be friend with GIMP | 20:03 |
| Stskeeps | and just have python-2.5-gtk2 | 20:03 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: again, Provides doesn't provide versions | 20:03 |
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| LinuxHack3r | sisto: Waiting Waiting Waiting. | 20:03 |
| opengeekv2 | maybe wazd and I will undesrtend one to each other XD | 20:03 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, I agree. hacking source packages seems like the most reasonable way | 20:04 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: because the first python package i saw doesn't have the >= thing | 20:04 |
| wazd | If someone will give me at least 1 rational explanation bout what's bad with cenrered app menu button - then i'll move it | 20:04 |
| * lcuk climbs up to the high platform, leaps does a triple somersault with half twist before landing deftly in a cup of water | 20:04 | |
| * lcuk loses his balance when putting his shoes back on | 20:05 | |
| lcuk | it looks daft | 20:05 |
| lcuk | out of place and does not deserve to be centrepiece | 20:05 |
| lcuk | if anything it should be the mer menu | 20:06 |
| lcuk | but even that wouldnt look right | 20:06 |
| Stskeeps | http://trac.tspre.org:8000/python-osso_jaunty-armel-1232387331.log | 20:06 |
| Stskeeps | huh? :P | 20:06 |
| lcuk | SPACE is the thing that menu lacks | 20:06 |
| johnx | *cough* just to put this out there: ideally order of things in that top panel will be something that could be configured at a layout level | 20:06 |
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| johnx | Stskeeps, dying disk? | 20:07 |
| opengeekv2 | hey i've said that is no problem id the button is in the middle | 20:07 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: doubtful | 20:07 |
| wazd | Mer menu should be in the corner for easiest possible click on it | 20:07 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: and that would throw me into a huge panic | 20:07 |
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| lcuk | if that menu was dynamic and had some of the app title in it i wouldnt object so much | 20:08 |
| opengeekv2 | fut we have to find a way to no cover (a huge surface) of rhe body of the app | 20:08 |
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| Jaffa | johnx: apparently this new menu is got "for free", and they've finally realised that making the widgets used finger friendly rather than introducing new widgets is the right approach (in some cases, not all) | 20:08 |
| wazd | Forget about title at last) | 20:08 |
| lcuk | apps have coped perfectly well for years and years with less space than now | 20:08 |
| slonopotamus | hmm | 20:09 |
| slonopotamus | about useless optimizations | 20:09 |
| slonopotamus | my python is twice faster than maemo | 20:09 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 20:09 |
| opengeekv2 | great | 20:09 |
| johnx | Jaffa, yeah, we're seeing some of the effects of that. I just hope they make the right trade-off | 20:09 |
| Jaffa | johnx: indeed | 20:10 |
| opengeekv2 | and hwat about | 20:10 |
| * lcuk would like dynamically resizing elements, a person with only a few running apps and clock widgets (forget the name) should have plenty of space for a title + menu | 20:10 | |
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| * Guest90884 [W2I=000:u:0:000:] | 20:10 | |
| lcuk | those with more should still see more *at the expense of the titlebar* | 20:10 |
| wazd | Lcuk: app title is totally useless. There's nothing it can work for in that place. Totally noting | 20:10 |
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| lcuk | i have very few things running, i will have a big gap - why cant i have a title until i run more things? | 20:11 |
| opengeekv2 | |mer|app list|menu button|notification area|minimize|close | 20:11 |
| lcuk | its simple logic - the space will exist | 20:11 |
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| johnx | lcuk, maybe we could make you a statusbar applet that shows the title of the currently focused app :) | 20:12 |
| Khertan_n810 | huhu | 20:12 |
| lcuk | theres one there already | 20:12 |
| Khertan_n810 | hello again | 20:12 |
| lcuk | it has a menu icon and everything | 20:12 |
| wazd | You will still have a title like «Web - Nokia Sta...» | 20:12 |
| Khertan_n810 | remove the title | 20:12 |
| wazd | Does it make sense for you? | 20:12 |
| LinuxHack3r | Hello everyone! | 20:12 |
| lcuk | wazd, at first i will have 1 applet and no apps | 20:13 |
| johnx | hi LinuxHack3r | 20:13 |
| lcuk | it will show much more clearly | 20:13 |
| lcuk | when i fill it up with running apps it will go shorter | 20:13 |
| LinuxHack3r | johnx: ! It works! Thanks. | 20:13 |
| lcuk | just like it does everywhere | 20:13 |
| opengeekv2 | hey wazd i would tray to mike a mockup and i will show you | 20:13 |
| johnx | LinuxHack3r, ah good! | 20:13 |
| opengeekv2 | ok? | 20:13 |
| wazd | Then you will see «home» | 20:13 |
| lcuk | at extreme end all i will see if the menu icon - which is exactly how you have it now | 20:13 |
| wazd | opengeekv2: sure | 20:14 |
| wazd | And what about not extreme ends? | 20:14 |
| wazd | You have 3 apps and 6 applets for example | 20:14 |
| lcuk | right now on my tablet, i have 4 icons: bluetooth+backlight+wifi+battery even accounting for 10 more things i can still see my app title | 20:14 |
| wazd | Stqndard situation | 20:15 |
| lcuk | i *agree* the title isnt so important when theres lots of icons | 20:15 |
| lcuk | but theres no point in removing it totally | 20:15 |
| wazd | Without apps you will see «home» | 20:15 |
| lcuk | yes, and its really easy to click on the menu cos its big and long | 20:16 |
| lcuk | and i know what im doing | 20:16 |
| wazd | With one app you'll see it's name. But why do you need the name of one opened app | 20:16 |
| johnx | the biggest deciding factors here are probably going to involve technical feasibility given what we can do with the panel and staying compatible with apps written for Fremantle | 20:16 |
| wazd | Current menu is long enough to click it with toe | 20:16 |
| lcuk | because its part of the theme | 20:17 |
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| wazd | Lcuk: you'll have to change current themes anyway since titlebar isn't resizable there | 20:18 |
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| wazd | I'd prefer ordered free space than trying to fill it at all costs | 20:21 |
| lcuk | wazd, konttoris theme designer needs updating :) | 20:21 |
| wazd | If i'll have free space in tasks zone I'll see that none of apps are running | 20:21 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: actually it's just a layout :P | 20:22 |
| lcuk | heh good | 20:22 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, it still needs updating :) | 20:22 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 20:22 |
| johnx | since we need different sized pngs | 20:22 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: theme maker is bascally hildon-theme-layout-4 written in java code | 20:22 |
| Stskeeps | + slicer | 20:22 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: have you ever seen anything like this? http://trac.tspre.org:8000/python-osso_jaunty-armel-1232387331.log | 20:23 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: i'm absolutely baffled - the code is there | 20:23 |
| lcuk | wazd, chopping window titles out (which are a part of window managers all over the world) just to force useless space on a constrained touch device is folly at best | 20:23 |
| Stskeeps | and the gcc too obviously | 20:23 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, ah, I also considered the template part of 'theme maker' | 20:23 |
| johnx | lcuk, unless things changed section sizes can't be resized while hildon-desktop is running | 20:23 |
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| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, I can't figure it out. A scratchbox oddity :( | 20:24 |
| * lcuk raises eyebrows? | 20:24 | |
| lcuk | really | 20:24 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: the debhelper stuff or the osso thing? :P | 20:24 |
| wazd | Titles are part of -desktop- filemangers | 20:24 |
| johnx | lcuk, yes, read ~/.osso/hildon-desktop/desktop.conf | 20:24 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, the osso thing | 20:24 |
| Stskeeps | k | 20:24 |
| johnx | wazd, unless things change it should be easy to make a user-modifiable layout, given that the pngs going into the theme can be tiled or scaled | 20:24 |
| lcuk | wazd, thats odd all my older lower resolution pdas had titlebars as well | 20:25 |
| lardman | morning chaps | 20:25 |
| wazd | Winmo doesn't have title menu, iphone doesn't have title menu | 20:25 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, I've finished with my osso-xterm hackzoring for the day so may as well take a look at osso. | 20:25 |
| qwerty12 | evening lardman | 20:25 |
| lardman | qwerty12: ;) | 20:25 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12: do you ever do homework, btw? :P | 20:25 |
| wazd | Lcuk: they have less accessible UI's aswell | 20:26 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, at bad times... | 20:26 |
| lcuk | http://www.kottke.org/plus/misc/images/itrail-graphs.jpg | 20:26 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 20:26 |
| lcuk | iphone apps from page 1 of google | 20:26 |
| lcuk | those look like big fuck off titlebars to me | 20:26 |
| wazd | Lcuk: I mean functional title, like palm's for example | 20:27 |
| lcuk | ? | 20:27 |
| wazd | When you click on title - something triggers | 20:27 |
| Khertan_n810 | what is the method to set the focus of a widget in gtk ? | 20:28 |
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| wazd | Btw, to add quickswitcher to winmo, all apps remove title | 20:28 |
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| wazd | And I totally don't see any fricking sense in that fricking title) | 20:29 |
| lcuk | nor do i when the space is required | 20:29 |
| wazd | Absolutely. No. Sense. | 20:29 |
| lcuk | but if its free whats the big deal? | 20:29 |
| wazd | And when it's not? | 20:29 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: it's usually clear what app you are in :) | 20:29 |
| Khertan_n810 | as we have task list with hilighted task ... we don t need title ... just a menu icon | 20:29 |
| lopz | hola | 20:29 |
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| Jake42-2 | ccooke? r u here man? | 20:30 |
| lcuk | wazd, i already said - no qualms, just like everything else when space is constrained reduce the space to the title accordingly | 20:30 |
| johnx | strangely it looks very likely that it will be easy to do either layout or very difficult to do both layouts, all depending on software nokia hasn't released yet :) | 20:30 |
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| lcuk | lol | 20:30 |
| wazd | stskeeps: i dont thinthat there are people like «oh, what application is that?!» )) | 20:30 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: i get confused between if i'm in Mer and if i'm in Maemo, once in a while. | 20:31 |
| lcuk | wazd, remove the titlebars from your theme now | 20:31 |
| lcuk | its feasible to simply not specifiy a font i gather?> | 20:31 |
| johnx | which is why we use titlebars in mer set to "home_ap_home_view" :D | 20:31 |
| lcuk | thats just not gone through l10n | 20:32 |
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| wazd | Again, i'd prefer free space than to use all space with crap | 20:33 |
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| wazd | Let's show random symbols, when we're on homescreen | 20:34 |
| johnx | we're close to that right now in mer :) | 20:34 |
| johnx | so a step in the right direction | 20:34 |
| wazd | Home is short word, so much free space on the right | 20:34 |
| * lardman can't believe how thirsty talking all day can make you | 20:35 | |
| Jake42-2 | does anyone how may I uninstall apache from maemo? | 20:35 |
| wazd | And let's cover all unused applet slots with smileys | 20:35 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: what'd you present/lecture? | 20:35 |
| lardman | yeah, all day course, running all week | 20:35 |
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| lardman | GeneralAntilles: ping | 20:39 |
| lcuk | lardman, are you allowed to drink tonight then | 20:39 |
| lardman | lcuk: allowed :) | 20:39 |
| lcuk | heh, | 20:39 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lardman, pong? | 20:40 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: was just going to +1 your post re getting on before end of month | 20:41 |
| lardman | am trawling through today's emails | 20:41 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, odd. running the gcc command manually works fine. | 20:42 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: yes, i was astonished too | 20:43 |
| lardman | hmm, /me wonders what the justification for dropping samba is | 20:44 |
| Stskeeps | lardman: probably noone internally to maintain it | 20:45 |
| Stskeeps | or that most people doesn't realize it's there | 20:45 |
| Stskeeps | it wasn't before trawling the code that i realized it was there | 20:45 |
| lardman | yeah, well I only notice is sometimes, and can't get it to work at home, but if it would, it would be very useful | 20:45 |
| lardman | s/is/it | 20:45 |
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| lardman | is the fm backend open? | 20:45 |
| Stskeeps | think so | 20:45 |
| Stskeeps | i had Samba in mer, so | 20:45 |
| lardman | could the community support it as an add-on? That would work for me anyway | 20:45 |
| Stskeeps | im not sure how much it is seperated | 20:46 |
| lardman | though it's to do with dropping gnome-vfs isn't it iirc? | 20:46 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, python interpreter is messing up imo. Run "python2.5 setup.py build" and "python setup.py build" and notice the difference. | 20:46 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: one works and one doesn't? | 20:46 |
| qwerty12 | (neither is successful) | 20:46 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 20:46 |
| qwerty12 | python setup fails on as | 20:46 |
| qwerty12 | "/scratchbox/compilers/arm-linux-cs2008q3-72-libtool2/bin/sbox-arm-none-linux-gnueabi-as: unrecognized option `-Qy'" | 20:46 |
| Stskeeps | hmm | 20:47 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I community Samba support doesn't sound unreasonable to me. | 20:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm not sure why everybody is so hooked on having Nokia ship everything. | 20:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | They're totally encumbered by corporate bullshit and everything they ship sucks anyway. | 20:53 |
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| RST38h | Moo all. What is Nokia supposed to ship this time? | 20:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Samba support | 20:55 |
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| RST38h | Isn't it perfectly doable by the third party though? =) | 20:57 |
| johnx | well, it's already *done* | 20:57 |
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| johnx | just needs some cleanup and maintenance | 20:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, it is. | 20:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, which is exactly my point. | 20:58 |
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| RST38h | weird people. | 20:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | People getting up in arms about Nokia not providing 1st-party support when 3rd-party support is feasible and likely to be of better quality than anything Nokia would ship. | 20:59 |
| * RST38h hates, Hates, HATES address bar search in FF3 | 20:59 | |
| RST38h | what a crappy idea... | 21:00 |
| ccooke | Jake42-2: Sorry, sent home from work. I'm back now, if you're still around | 21:00 |
| johnx | RST38h, I love it | 21:00 |
| johnx | best feature added to the whole browser | 21:00 |
| ccooke | johnx: Have to agree, there. | 21:00 |
| ccooke | I've used it far more than I expected | 21:01 |
| GAN800 | The awesome bar polarizes like no other | 21:01 |
| GAN800 | I don't use FF much, but I can't stand it. | 21:01 |
| johnx | GAN800, that's because it's awesome at polarizing | 21:01 |
| johnx | I'm still finding ways to pin down long lost pages with it by combination of URL and page title | 21:01 |
| GAN800 | I think it's one of those things you have to adapt your workflow to. | 21:02 |
| johnx | GAN800, like a mac :) | 21:02 |
| RST38h | johnx: it would be, if it did not hang up for seconds at a time | 21:02 |
| GAN800 | Which isn't an easy thing to do (like with me and Expose). Unfortunately it's hard to ignore. | 21:02 |
| johnx | RST38h, huh? | 21:02 |
| RST38h | So, it either has to work instantly or not search at all | 21:02 |
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| RST38h | johnx: Even after I applied all the optimizations mentioned on the Net, it is still very very slow (and unevenly so) | 21:03 |
| johnx | is your machine starved for RAM really badly? | 21:03 |
| GAN800 | johnx, honestly, I've never known anything else, so. :p | 21:03 |
| johnx | any add-ons that might be causing problems | 21:03 |
| johnx | GAN800, aaaah. now I see. I switched from linux to mac for work...somewhat painful at first | 21:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | I did that with Windows for school. | 21:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Most of the time I spent using Windows was spent muttering curses under my breath. | 21:05 |
| lardman | I was thinking integration in filemanager I must add | 21:05 |
| aquatix | :) | 21:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | It was fun finding random Windows 95 dialogs in XP. | 21:05 |
| aquatix | ghehe | 21:05 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, do sysadmin/helpdesk/support for a living and you get good at adapting or you go crazy | 21:06 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: the latter is what happened to you? ;) | 21:06 |
| johnx | that'd be telling | 21:07 |
| johnx | :) | 21:07 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: as llong as things like File Manager will allow tier-1 integration of 3rd party protocols | 21:07 |
| * Jaffa might be snapping lardman | 21:07 | |
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| lardman | snapping? | 21:08 |
| Jaffa | As in the card game, "Snap!" | 21:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.google.com/search?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&q=%22snap%21%22 | 21:09 |
| lardman | ah, I was thinking twigs | 21:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Google's not very helpful here. | 21:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, of course, and based on what Quim said, it seemed like something they'd be willing to work on removing any possible blockers for. | 21:11 |
| RST38h | http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/19/cass_sunstein_animal_rights/ | 21:11 |
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| RST38h | johnx: it has got a standard 1GB | 21:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, I've done a bit of that. ;) | 21:11 |
| johnx | RST38h, same here, backed by a 1.8GHz A64 that's going on 4 or 5 years (ie, not a recent one :) ) | 21:12 |
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| RST38h | johnx: well, for some reason that damn search is really slugish over here. in fact, it has got problems on the machine at work as well | 21:13 |
| * RST38h wonders iff it is related to him accidentaly entering cyrillics into the address bar | 21:14 | |
| johnx | it usually gets me recent results quickly and takes longer for older ones | 21:15 |
| johnx | which is fine, because the old bar seemed to drop old results entirely | 21:15 |
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| * aquatix rather likes the Fx3 bar | 21:16 | |
| aquatix | it works snappy enough here, and has tuned itself to me | 21:16 |
| RST38h | johnx: I do have months of history | 21:17 |
| johnx | RST38h, i have years | 21:18 |
| * aquatix has it set to 999 days | 21:18 | |
| aquatix | i only have to type some keyword and it remembers for me | 21:18 |
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| * Jaffa quite likes the FF3 bar too | 21:25 | |
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| aquatix | it took a bit of getting-used to | 21:26 |
| aquatix | but that was just 1 or 2 days | 21:27 |
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| GeneralAntilles | andre__, ha! | 21:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | #4019 is relevant to me because I always spaz whenever I see a blocker filed in a new Extras product and think it's a Maemo bug that I need to RESOLVE. ;) | 21:29 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Who wants to start taking bets on when we'll get DSMA? | 21:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/MA/ME/ | 21:30 |
| Stskeeps | DSME? | 21:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | My bet is never. | 21:30 |
| Stskeeps | we'll see :P | 21:30 |
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| * aquatix googles `DSME' | 21:31 | |
| * qwerty12_N800 agrees with the General | 21:31 | |
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| Davide | hi | 21:32 |
| Davide | is anyone here? | 21:32 |
| * aquatix hides | 21:33 | |
| Davide | heh | 21:33 |
| Davide | I have questions lol | 21:33 |
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| Davide | hey is this the only maemo irc community? | 21:34 |
| andre__ | don't ask to ask. just ask. | 21:34 |
| aquatix | yep | 21:34 |
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| aquatix | and what andre__ says :) | 21:34 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: Given it was "so very close" at the summit, I bet we'll get it when a Maemo device is as successful as the iPhone, or the Pandora becomes mass-market. | 21:34 |
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| andre__ | GeneralAntilles, but 4019 is not about buglist.cgi, so i guess it will not fix your issue ;-) | 21:34 |
| Davide | well I'm wondering if anyone knows anything about installing Xmame or gngeo on Diablo | 21:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | andre__, yeah, I know. | 21:35 |
| Davide | there doesnt seem to be much on the forums | 21:35 |
| Davide | I keep getting an "incompatible Application package" error | 21:35 |
| andre__ | GeneralAntilles, it's more about managers afraid that reporters can't read :-P | 21:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | andre__, I say screw 'em. :P | 21:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | If they want to start triaging their own goddamn bugs, then they get a say. ;) | 21:36 |
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| Davide | or anyone that could point me in the right direction | 21:37 |
| Jaffa | Davide: That sounds like the packager has cocked up, and you might need to install it manually using dpkg in X Terminal. Or moan at the packager to put his packages in the 'user/' section, if they're supposed to be installed by end-users. | 21:37 |
| Davide | how would I go about doing it on X Terminal? | 21:38 |
| Jaffa | Davide: sudo gainroot, dpkg -i xmame....deb | 21:38 |
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| Davide | thanks Jaffa so exactly what I would type after gaining root? dpkg -i xmame | 21:39 |
| Davide | and thats it? | 21:39 |
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| GeneralAntilles | http://wiki.maemo.org/Installing_applications#dpkg | 21:40 |
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| Davide | thank you and I apologize for the NOOB questions, I'm not well versed in unix/linux | 21:41 |
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| johnx | alright, headed to bed. 'night all | 21:43 |
| b-man | g'night | 21:43 |
| aquatix | johnx: nn | 21:45 |
| aquatix | Davide: you have to learn it some way :) | 21:46 |
| Davide | ok so with apt-get install gngeo I get: Package gngeo is not available, but is referred to by another package | 21:46 |
| Davide | I have the xgngeo already installed but it lacks the executable it seems like | 21:46 |
| Davide | and I read that I have to install the gngeo exec first so that xgngeo can find it | 21:46 |
| Davide | xmame it does not find at all | 21:47 |
| Davide | probably because I dont have the right repository I assume? | 21:47 |
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| aquatix | maybe the package is called slightly differently | 21:48 |
| Davide | hmm can I do a search somehow? for part of the string? | 21:48 |
| aquatix | apt-cache search gngeo | 21:49 |
| Davide | it just returns xgngeo | 21:49 |
| Davide | which is the frontend | 21:49 |
| aquatix | and if you install that? | 21:50 |
| Davide | and for mame it find nothing | 21:50 |
| Davide | its already installed | 21:50 |
| Davide | the xgngeo | 21:50 |
| aquatix | oh | 21:50 |
| aquatix | hm | 21:50 |
| * lcuk *insert silly returning action here* | 21:51 | |
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| zenvoid | sudo sh imager targets/mer-n800-fs-only /home/rgs/mer-n800 ==> E: Couldn't find these debs: apt apt-utils bash [...] | 21:53 |
| Jake42-2 | how may I update maemo repo? | 21:53 |
| Stskeeps | zenvoid: hmm | 21:53 |
| zenvoid | x86 works | 21:53 |
| Stskeeps | zenvoid: is this done in a qemu or where? | 21:53 |
| Stskeeps | if you're doing it on x86, that's not the way :) | 21:54 |
| zenvoid | oops | 21:54 |
| Stskeeps | it works natively, that is, on an armel, or a special set up qemu armel :P | 21:54 |
| Davide | so the incompatible application error message usually means it is not finding the file at all? | 21:55 |
| Stskeeps | you're better off grabbing the tar.gz for n800, the process takes ages on tablet | 21:55 |
| b-man | (3-5 hours) ;) | 21:55 |
| zenvoid | Stskeeps: ok, I'lll read imager sources :-) just curios about how everything is made | 21:55 |
| Stskeeps | zenvoid: hehe, yeah, that's also a way :) | 21:55 |
| Stskeeps | it's mostly magic debootstrap tricks | 21:56 |
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| Jaffa | Davide: do you have a .deb file you are trying to install through the Application Manager? | 21:57 |
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| b-man | Stskeeps: i see you've established a #mer channel | 21:57 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: yeah, the intention is to stay in here though, as we're closely connected with the maemo community | 21:58 |
| Davide | no I guess I don't have the file at all | 21:58 |
| Davide | I'm looking for the file | 21:58 |
| zenvoid | even the first bootstrat stage is done under armel? | 21:58 |
| Stskeeps | zenvoid: yeah | 21:58 |
| Stskeeps | on a qemu | 21:58 |
| Davide | anytime I hit the link from maemo.org for example | 21:58 |
| zenvoid | ok | 21:58 |
| Davide | it tells me the error | 21:58 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: pfft. ;P | 21:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | :P | 21:58 |
| Davide | incompatible application package | 21:58 |
| lcuk | omg! i think we were just attacked by anonymous /b/tards :P | 21:58 |
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| Stskeeps | i wonder if it's michael jackson living next door since there's a kid screaming loudly quite a lot | 22:01 |
| Stskeeps | *sigh* :P | 22:01 |
| * qwerty12_N800 passes Stskeeps a BB gun | 22:02 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Need to blast the speed metal. | 22:02 |
| Vulcanis | thats what she said | 22:03 |
| Vulcanis | wait, what? | 22:03 |
| zenvoid | Stskeeps: ohhh, my bad habit to always try to build everything from scratch... I'll try to live with precompiled images for now, really | 22:03 |
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| lcuk | zenvoid, :) an honourable habit to have, i gave up when i couldnt find enough planks of wood to make my bed | 22:05 |
| Stskeeps | zenvoid: hehe, we started out without images at first too | 22:05 |
| Stskeeps | it is just much more productive to have a tar.gz laying about as a snapshot you can revert to anytime though | 22:05 |
| Stskeeps | since it takes ~10 mins to unpack the image | 22:06 |
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| Stskeeps | zenvoid: but on the other hand that it's possible to change some scripts and have your own custom OS image, is a good thing :) | 22:08 |
| zenvoid | uh? are those dbus errors in the x86 chroot normal? | 22:09 |
| Stskeeps | ah, yes, the dbus errors | 22:09 |
| zenvoid | oops, Segmentation fault... I'll start again | 22:09 |
| Stskeeps | i thought johnx talked about some chroot problems | 22:09 |
| zenvoid | from scrach ;-) | 22:09 |
| Stskeeps | there is a strange strange bug exhibiting when running start-hildon from chroot :) | 22:10 |
| zenvoid | ok... reverting to the virtualbox image, then | 22:10 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, that one definately works | 22:10 |
| Stskeeps | i mostly compile in chroot | 22:10 |
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| zenvoid | and virtualbox is also a good idea for debugging startup | 22:11 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: i don't think it was a 64-bit problem you saw btw | 22:12 |
| Stskeeps | zenvoid: yeah, it works similar to how it does on tablet, besides the lack of splash screen and rescue menu ;) | 22:13 |
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| zenvoid | Stskeeps: how can I force a screen resolution of 800x480? | 22:14 |
| Stskeeps | zenvoid: xrandr maybe | 22:14 |
| Stskeeps | not sure if 800x480 is possible on the X driver it uses | 22:15 |
| Stskeeps | (i made a generic image that is sure to work most places, so :P) | 22:15 |
| zenvoid | oh, nice theme ;-) | 22:16 |
| Stskeeps | hehe :) | 22:16 |
| zenvoid | hmm... there are gliches, probably because of the resolution??? | 22:17 |
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| Stskeeps | possibly, what kind of glitches? | 22:17 |
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| Stskeeps | zenvoid: http://trac.tspre.org/meiz/screenshots/Screenshot-2.png , on tablet | 22:18 |
| Davide | well no success | 22:18 |
| Davide | :( | 22:18 |
| RST38h | All right, MasterGear with the new wazd's icon is not in the Extras | 22:18 |
| zenvoid | Stskeeps: on tablet seems OK | 22:18 |
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| * Stskeeps tries to reawaken the qemu builder | 22:22 | |
| Davide | do any of you play games on the tablet? | 22:22 |
| Davide | what do you use? | 22:22 |
| Stskeeps | some things will have to be built in qemu sadly, cos SDK is bloody weird atm | 22:22 |
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| Stskeeps | zenvoid: funny bugs like http://trac.tspre.org:8000/vte=1:0.17.4-0ubuntu1mer2_jaunty-armel-1232381310.log and http://trac.tspre.org:8000/python-osso_jaunty-armel-1232387331.log at the moment :) | 22:24 |
| Stskeeps | (look in bottom of both9 | 22:24 |
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| RST38h | Is maemo.org sluggish tonight? | 22:25 |
| RST38h | can't update a page | 22:25 |
| pupnik | atari jaguar emulator on pandora: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pe_R787gREc | 22:26 |
| Davide | its always sluggish for me | 22:26 |
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| Davide | pupnik did you ever try getting mame to work? | 22:27 |
| ctooley | morning all | 22:27 |
| Stskeeps | morning | 22:27 |
| Davide | hello | 22:27 |
| inz | Stskeeps, it would seem like ncurses is missing dh_makeshlibs | 22:27 |
| ctooley | I've gotten QuickSynergy set up. I'm wondering if there's a way to get the pointer to show up without having to come up with some polling hack. | 22:27 |
| pupnik | mame worked ok on 770, Davide | 22:28 |
| Stskeeps | inz: worst part is it works on x86 for instance | 22:28 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Bring Mame back to 8x0 =) | 22:28 |
| inz | Stskeeps, interesting =) | 22:28 |
| ctooley | I'm running 5.2008.43-7 on an N800 | 22:28 |
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| Stskeeps | inz: we're basically trying to bring up-to-date vte + MAEMO_CHANGES + osso-xterm to Mer, so :P | 22:29 |
| qwerty12_N800 | ctooley, edit /home/user/.icons/default/index.theme and comment Inherits & reboot. | 22:29 |
| qwerty12_N800 | *edit as root | 22:29 |
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| ctooley | gotta install rootsh | 22:31 |
| Davide | so it no longer works? mame or gngeo? | 22:32 |
| pupnik | "If automobiles had followed the same development cycle as the computer, a Rolls-Royce would today cost $100, get a million miles per gallon, and explode once a year, killing everyone inside." | 22:33 |
| ctooley | going to www.maemo.org from my N800 gives a webbrowser NFS error. | 22:33 |
| inz | Stskeeps, you have new enogugh gtk in mer? | 22:33 |
| ctooley | err NFS error in the browser | 22:33 |
| Stskeeps | inz: yup, 2.12 | 22:33 |
| Stskeeps | same as in fremantle | 22:33 |
| Davide | Man I just wanted to play some cool old school games | 22:33 |
| Davide | :( | 22:33 |
| Davide | on my gngeo | 22:34 |
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| Davide | ^^ | 22:34 |
| inz | Stskeeps, anyway, from the log it would seem that shlibs file for ncurses is missing for some reason | 22:35 |
| inz | Stskeeps, why it only affects arm, no idea | 22:35 |
| Stskeeps | probably because it's scratchbox or something :P | 22:35 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Davide, well, there are lots of other higher-quality emulators available. | 22:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Easily installable right from the Application Manager. | 22:37 |
| thopiekar | [The Mer platform is a Linux distribution for mobile devices based on the Maemo platform from Nokia.] | 22:38 |
| thopiekar | Will Mer be a alternative OS for Maemo-Devices? | 22:38 |
| Stskeeps | thopiekar: well, successor of maemo on 770, n8x0 maybe. :P | 22:38 |
| Stskeeps | i dunno, it's all a matter of definitions. | 22:39 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:39 |
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| * thopiekar is now confused... | 22:39 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | thopiekar, less an alternative OS than an alternative Maemo, methinks. | 22:40 |
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| Stskeeps | thopiekar: it's basically the Maemo Reconstructed idea coming into reality | 22:41 |
| thopiekar | GeneralAntilles: couldn't it be the promised version of maemo without closedsource programs like map , etc? | 22:42 |
| Stskeeps | thopiekar: yeah, except this isn't Nokia's doing | 22:42 |
| RST38h | map isn't a requirement really | 22:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | "promised"? | 22:42 |
| thopiekar | Stskeeps: aaaah! | 22:42 |
| Stskeeps | we are just users of their components, and proud tablet users | 22:42 |
| wazd | Damn, I'm bored( | 22:43 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 22:43 |
| Stskeeps | still no internet at home? | 22:43 |
| * b-man trys out gentoo from http://slonopotamus.org/gentoo-on-n8x0 | 22:43 | |
| thopiekar | GeneralAntilles: I have read about that before that there will be a version like the todays OS2008 and a fully opensource one.. or not!? | 22:43 |
| wazd | Maybe I'll go to sleep then( | 22:43 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: yep( | 22:44 |
| RST38h | wazd: I fixed the mg icon and uploade dmg to extras | 22:44 |
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| Stskeeps | thopiekar: community editions? | 22:44 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, in a way it is nokias doing and every other person who has helped build an amazingly versatile software stack that comprises linux :) | 22:44 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: yeah | 22:44 |
| thopiekar | Stskeeps: yes! | 22:44 |
| wazd | RST38h: oh, awesome! | 22:44 |
| thopiekar | Isn't Mer going to be _the_ community edition? | 22:45 |
| thopiekar | ^^ | 22:45 |
| lcuk | the amazing blend you are doing is shaping it in a sane manner and carefully selecting a path to create an easy to use sensible distribution :) | 22:45 |
| Stskeeps | thopiekar: this is basically an alternate approach to things.. community editions would imply that we just take OS2008, remix it a bit and publish | 22:46 |
| wazd | Btw, second thing adore in E90 is d-pad | 22:46 |
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| Stskeeps | thopiekar: which is not sustainable and hardly as fun as this | 22:46 |
| wazd | It's ficking awesome | 22:46 |
| RST38h | wazd: isn't it similar to the one in N810, just located in a better position? | 22:46 |
| Stskeeps | thopiekar: Mer is a project by community people to take a different approach to the maemo platform | 22:46 |
| wazd | RST38h: no, it's softer | 22:46 |
| wazd | RST38h: more gamepad like | 22:47 |
| Stskeeps | as to empower the community more and focus the work | 22:47 |
| thopiekar | Stskeeps: aahh I see... | 22:47 |
| thopiekar | stsk | 22:47 |
| thopiekar | Stskeeps: thanks for the info ;) | 22:47 |
| wazd | RST38h: superb touch response | 22:47 |
| Stskeeps | thopiekar: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed <- very old thoughts | 22:47 |
| * RST38h has got a stick in his phone | 22:48 | |
| RST38h | not bad either, but it has worn out somewhat | 22:48 |
| zenvoid | Stskeeps: I'm looking at those bugs... sound familiar, I remember lots of issues with scratchbox paths | 22:48 |
| wazd | RST38h: on n800/810 it's too "clicky" | 22:48 |
| Stskeeps | zenvoid: for now to speed up the process, when a build fails in scratchbox, it will try it out on qemu (natively) and build it there | 22:48 |
| Stskeeps | and mark the packages it had to do it wih | 22:48 |
| wazd | RST38h: they really made e90 d-pad awesome cause it's main navigation controller :) | 22:49 |
| lcuk | please don't laugh, i have a number of access databases and i cannot find a tool to convert to sqlite, anyone got anything lying around or a link? | 22:50 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: design a tablet? :> | 22:50 |
| Stskeeps | (if you're bored) | 22:50 |
| aquatix | lcuk: there's an mdb thing for php? | 22:50 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: sleep is better) | 22:50 |
| lcuk | wouldnt know, i dont use php, but will look | 22:50 |
| aquatix | http://menkou.homelinux.net/serendipity/index.php?/archives/21-Access-a-mdb-database-from-a-php-web-site.html | 22:50 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: hehe :> | 22:51 |
| lcuk | the problem with "access" as a keyword is its generic | 22:51 |
| aquatix | lcuk: i had a user ask a similar question today | 22:51 |
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| aquatix | yeah, i figured you wanted an .mdb file reader | 22:51 |
| RST38h | lcuk: export to csv, then read from csv | 22:51 |
| wazd | the main e90 disadvantage is it's price) | 22:51 |
| aquatix | that can be done with odbc and such | 22:51 |
| lcuk | table definitions? | 22:51 |
| RST38h | wazd: it is no longer that expensive compared to some newer phones | 22:51 |
| RST38h | HTC will easily cost you more | 22:52 |
| lcuk | aquatix, of course odbc! ill look for a driver forthwith | 22:52 |
| aquatix | lcuk: you can ask through a query? | 22:52 |
| aquatix | lcuk: see that same url | 22:52 |
| wazd | RST38h: Well, you're probably right, but lack of touchscreen... | 22:52 |
| RST38h | wazd: I don't really need it if I have the keyboard | 22:53 |
| wazd | RST38h: haven't tested web-surfing with d-pad though | 22:53 |
| RST38h | wazd: it is decent enough | 22:54 |
| RST38h | wazd: E70 does relatively good job on web pages, I doubt e90 is any worse | 22:54 |
| wazd | RST38h: e90 kb is totally awesome. Definitely my best mobile kb experience | 22:54 |
| RST38h | wazd: actually, e70 is better in the keyboard department | 22:55 |
| lcuk | thanks aquatix, its enough to just grab an odbc driver, i want reproducable results so ill just make a sync between the app db in access/sqlserver (different apps) and an sqlite db for mobile | 22:55 |
| RST38h | wazd: but it comes at a cost of a somewhat awkward construction | 22:55 |
| aquatix | lcuk: apt-get install libmdbodbc | 22:55 |
| aquatix | :) | 22:55 |
| lcuk | windows.. | 22:55 |
| wazd | RST38h: is that little thing with qwerty? Can't check it out | 22:55 |
| aquatix | lcuk: ah | 22:55 |
| * aquatix wouldn't mind having an E71 | 22:56 | |
| lcuk | our shop is vb and *spit* .net i suppose at some point im gonna have to talk with them | 22:56 |
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| wazd | RST38h: it's quite slim as I remember | 22:56 |
| * lcuk fires up vb to test | 22:57 | |
| wazd | But I got used to E90 in fricking secons and started to shoot words | 22:58 |
| Stskeeps | okay, python developers in here. which Debian packages do you use to get your stuff working? | 22:58 |
| Stskeeps | on maemo | 22:58 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, khertan is the man you need to speak to | 22:59 |
| TrueJournals | Stskeeps: Why not just look at the depends of a python application? | 22:59 |
| Stskeeps | TrueJournals: just pondering which to prioritize on :) | 23:00 |
| thopiekar | Stskeeps: apt-get install python* ^^ | 23:00 |
| thopiekar | should contain all packages... | 23:00 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 23:00 |
| TrueJournals | Stskeeps: for pyrdesktop, I'm using python2.5, python2.5-hildon, python2.5-gtk2, python2.5-gnome, python2.5-conic | 23:01 |
| Stskeeps | k | 23:01 |
| Stskeeps | TrueJournals: i use that quite frequently :) | 23:02 |
| TrueJournals | :) | 23:03 |
| TrueJournals | And it works well? | 23:03 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, mostly, some things are prolly just quirks due to the abuse i give it | 23:03 |
| TrueJournals | Glad to hear it | 23:04 |
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| timelE61i | Fwiw, i tried working on mxr todsay, but it broke my network again | 23:09 |
| * timelE61i hunts food | 23:09 | |
| Stskeeps | timelE61i: sounds good and thanks for the effort put into it :) | 23:09 |
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| Stskeeps | python-gtk2, check, python-osso, check | 23:11 |
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| Stskeeps | .. what on earth is python-gnome | 23:12 |
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| TrueJournals | I believe it provides gnomevfs and gconf | 23:13 |
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| Stskeeps | k, should be there already | 23:17 |
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| zenvoid | Stskeeps, please tell me if this is correct: imager get compiled packages from mer repo first, and then from jaunty in there is no specific mer version. Packages with 'Prioriy: required' are selected (from the mix of both repos) | 23:25 |
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| Stskeeps | zenvoid: er. neither - it debootstraps a minimal ubuntu jaunty bootstrap, and then it adds pinning, that is, the packages in the mer repository override the ones in jaunty repository | 23:28 |
| Stskeeps | minimal = minbase variant | 23:28 |
| Stskeeps | and then it apt-gets everything in | 23:28 |
| zenvoid | ok | 23:29 |
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| Stskeeps | i would love a debootstrap that accepts pinning but life just isn't that easy :P | 23:29 |
| zenvoid | I think I will try to adapt my bootstrap method (sorry, couln't resist...), just because it is a more familiar way to create images for me. Of course every new package and patch will go thrugh the standard mer procedure, NO MORE FORKS :) | 23:33 |
| Stskeeps | bootstrap method of? | 23:33 |
| zenvoid | to create tar.gz | 23:33 |
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| zenvoid | just for my own use | 23:33 |
| zenvoid | it make me happy :) | 23:34 |
| Stskeeps | hehe, as in using the imager or what do you mean? | 23:34 |
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| Stskeeps | only reason why we provide tar.gz's is cos we did Deblet where people debootstrapped from their own tablets :) | 23:36 |
| zenvoid | yes, for creating images using the compiled packages, the same thing that imager does but in a way that I'm more comfortable | 23:36 |
| Stskeeps | okay - beware we have specific tricks in the imager | 23:37 |
| Stskeeps | such as xorg.conf and other stylings | 23:37 |
| Stskeeps | so, which method would be more comfortable for you? :> | 23:37 |
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| zenvoid | hmmm... I'll look at them | 23:38 |
| Stskeeps | basically what imager is a big configuration file, plus some debootstrap + apt-get and such commands | 23:39 |
| Stskeeps | i'll gladly explain how it works | 23:39 |
| zenvoid | which script has those tricks? :-) | 23:39 |
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| zenvoid | I'm sure is just better to use imager, it is just that I feel nostagic ;-) | 23:41 |
| Stskeeps | if we quickly look at imager itself, it sets up a debootstrap command line based on some parameters, then it mounts the target chroot, fakes the invocation scripts of init.d, resolve all dependancies, set debconf presets if we need to, call some hooks in the configuration on what to do when done debootstrapping, and then it updates the OS, and installs the huge list of packages the configuration has put together, and then purges the packages we don't ... | 23:42 |
| Stskeeps | ... need, clean up, remove downloaded debs, do additional hooks, allow invoke-rc.d and such to run again, done | 23:42 |
| zenvoid | This way I get a better idea of how everything works, learn your tricks and WHY you need those tricks | 23:42 |
| zenvoid | oh, thanks for your info | 23:43 |
| Stskeeps | basically, look at targets/mer-n800-fs-only and work your way back | 23:43 |
| zenvoid | ok. I'm sure that you will laugh: I'm using a forked debootstrap :-) | 23:43 |
| Stskeeps | so are we, don't worry, we use a copied jaunty script :P | 23:44 |
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| Stskeeps | so what does your fork do? | 23:44 |
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| zenvoid | it is just a simple script that takes all 'priority required' and some manually provided packages, extract them (with ar, like debootstrap does in first stage) and prepares some scripts for first boot. It creates a first-stage.tar.gz. This can be done in x86 and without root (fakeroot) | 23:48 |
| Stskeeps | yes, that's basically what debootstrap --foreign does | 23:48 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:48 |
| zenvoid | the first-stage.tar.gz can be placed into a real device, and it will exec the second stage at first boot | 23:49 |
| Stskeeps | we just have so many dependancies and everything that it was just simpler to do it this way | 23:49 |
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| Stskeeps | the entire thing takes 3h50m for x86, 770, n8x0 images so | 23:49 |
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| zenvoid | uh? | 23:50 |
| zenvoid | that is because jaunty deps, I guess | 23:50 |
| Stskeeps | well, if we want to take the entire system, first and second stage is a bit moot, so :) | 23:50 |
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| Stskeeps | and in the log of the imager we can isolate if there's problems with the postinsts and everything immediately | 23:51 |
| Stskeeps | such as applications depending on /proc/component_version for installation :) | 23:51 |
| Stskeeps | so, instead of waiting about 1h30m for imager to run through, people take the tar.gz and just apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade as they go :) | 23:52 |
| zenvoid | uhmmm... ok, but I won't be happy until I've mangled everything :-) | 23:53 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 23:53 |
| Stskeeps | and i don't mind people working on imager either, meiz still uses it, the image builder uses it, r2d2rogers uses it, so :) | 23:53 |
| Stskeeps | it's just a way to deal with the imaging process, so :P | 23:54 |
| zenvoid | and the idea is to override jaunty packages when there are some interesting patches in maemo version? | 23:55 |
| Stskeeps | yes, if we place them in mer repository, it will prefer the mer repository packages | 23:55 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.debian.org/doc/manuals/apt-howto/ch-apt-get.en.html | 23:56 |
| Stskeeps | (3.10) | 23:56 |
| zenvoid | ok, they are overriden by apt options | 23:56 |
| Stskeeps | yes | 23:56 |
| zenvoid | Pin | 23:57 |
| Stskeeps | it's not a graceful solution, but it works well | 23:57 |
| zenvoid | yeah, just trying to fill the gaps in my head with information | 23:57 |
| Stskeeps | the only place pinning isn't in place is in the first debootstrap, but it might get solved when the imager does a dist-upgrade after debootstrap and setting up pinning | 23:58 |
| zenvoid | ok | 23:58 |
| zenvoid | and libc is from maemo or jaunty? | 23:59 |
| zenvoid | jaunty, it seems | 23:59 |
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