IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2009-01-17

Khertanwhich info ? data or prefs ?00:00
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: didn't know that part00:00
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: Mer?00:00
* Stskeeps ducks00:00
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Khertananyway it s stored in a sqlite db00:00
RaytrayAh I see.00:00
Khertanin /home/user/.mPim/mcalendar.db00:00
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: actually..00:00
RaytrayAlright thanks.00:00
Khertanwhy are you asking ?00:00
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: it's actually in universe.00:00
RaytrayAnd how often does autosynchro sync?00:00
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, cool00:01
* Stskeeps installs00:01
RaytrayI messed up my calendar and it doesn't really sync properly. >.> Like it pops up an error trying to delete something that's already gone on google cal.00:01
Khertanhum ... don't remember for the sync, if the last release have preferences, but it s any in all version 4 hours by default00:01
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RaytrayAh alright.00:01
Khertanand when get a network connection00:01
lcukKhertan, whats the chances of getting a LAN based sync (or simply an alternative server)00:02
* lardman|home is once again stunned at the Pandora smoke and mirrors00:03
Khertanlcuk: if you create a server supporting the gdata api ... it should work ...00:03
Khertanlcuk: or provide me a real lib that can be use to do sync with syncml ...00:03
Khertanwith python00:03
lcukkhertan, cool, how about a simpler approach, if i had filesystem connection and could see another instance of a mcal database could they be aligned?00:03
Khertanthe only things i found about syncml is really ... annoying ...00:04
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Khertanlcuk: HEY !!!! Do not reveal my secret feature !00:04
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lcuk:) we do it all the time at work00:04
Khertanlcuk: yep this is planned ... a mCalendar version that run also on nunux, or windows and a small sync of database between00:05
lcukjust getting up to speed with sqlite00:05
Khertangetting up to speed ?00:05
Khertanwhat you mean ?00:05
lcukyeah, the sqlite databases make that practical00:05
lcuki dont know the api :) im windows based.  sql server/mysql/access etc00:05
Khertanhum ? i don't see any differences between sqlite db sync and other db sync ?00:05
Khertandoes sqlite have special api to do sync ?00:06
lcukno, but its cross platform data files which make it really nice00:06
lcukwell sorry, dont know00:06
Khertanah yes :)00:06
lcuki hate automatic sync anyway00:06
Khertanif it s well done ... it s perfect00:07
Khertanhey i ve retrieved my lost data ...00:07
lcukyeah, but thats YOU setting up the sync manually and running it on a schedule00:07
lcukthats not what i mean00:07
konttoriI have now created default icons to replace the nokia ones (the 4)00:07
Khertana forgotten sync backup :)00:08
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lcukcool, did your memory card get working again00:08
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lcukcool konttori :D00:08
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Khertantemp is no more negative00:09
konttoriI'll blog tomorrow00:09
Stskeepskonttori: woo :) something we can see?00:09
Stskeepshehe, alright00:09
konttorihmm... Lemme see. I'll put a image to server.00:09
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: wtf at it using libgtk1 though00:10
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, there's a configure switch for gtk2. but debian devs don't believe in it... the maemo one i did uses gtk200:11
Stskeepscan't seem to find it00:12
qwerty12_N800 (hacked up package, before I knew how to package properly...)00:13
qwerty12_N800you need a xkbd or something when it comes to the actual session though :/00:14
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qwerty12_N800konttori, did you ever bring NuvoBlack to os2008 by any chance?00:15
konttoriAnyway, just a quick test. I'll make a new release of TM in the weekend and blog a bit on icons at that time.00:15
konttorinope. Should be easy.00:15
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konttorinuvoblack was just invert colors version with a few fixes of the nuvopearl00:15
konttorianyway, I could do a new theme if I ever had time to work on anything.00:16
konttoriI'll be spending weekend documenting harmattan content framework.00:16
* lcuk gets ready to start hearing "Fixed in harmattan"00:17
konttorilcuk: no comment00:17
Stskeepslcuk: "fixed in Mer" ;900:17
sistohas anyone tried that with n810?00:18
sistopretty awesome isn't it?00:18
konttoriactually, on the content side, we'll be moving tracker to a whole new direction. And we'll publish 0.6.9 to debian next week! wuhuu! all the power of fremantle tracker soon at your local ubuntu distribution.00:18
konttoriand the 0.6.9 series will be the exact same we'll have in fremantle as well00:19
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konttoriwell, we do have a set of patches on nokia side on top of the gnome svn version, but it's all just tuneups.00:20
Stskeepskonttori: sounds good re tracker00:20
lcukkonttori, is tracker scan to identify only, or can it be fed at content creation time?00:22
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Khertanhow to test that i'm on a tablet in python without trying to import hildon ?00:23
konttorisorry, what do you mean?00:23
x29ais still the way to make a sd card bootable for endusers?00:23
lcukwell i create sketches and images and postcards and things at an alarming rate, do i have a way to manually tell tracker which files or is it always scanning everywhere in the background00:24
StskeepsKhertan: check existence for /proc/component_version00:24
konttoritracker first crawls the entire system and sets inotifys on all folders. then it feeds each new item to the extractors, which then return the metadata of the files and fulltext representation of the files. this is then fed to the database00:24
qwerty12_N800Khertan, check for the presence of the file /proc/component_version00:24
Raytrayx29a, that's the way I did it.00:24
Khertanhum right ...00:25
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps beat me :)00:25
konttorilcuk: and in addition to that, apps can push any additional data into tracker00:25
x29aRaytray: and worked ok? i want to first get things running and use it a bit before i digg into the fiddling00:25
RaytrayYup. :) Though I can't seem to get it to boot the right sd card by default :(00:25
konttoriand they can create virtual objects (so you can define any URI as the object)00:25
lcukkonttori, cool, thats the bit i was looking for :) i can hopefully forget me needing my own DB :)00:25
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lcukill read up more then00:26
konttori contains some info00:27
x29aRaytray: thats the chmodline where you setup the bootloaderconfig or?00:27
Stskeepskonttori: i just hope tracker does not get as hated as metacrawler at least :)00:27
lcukyeah i found it thanks :)00:27
RaytrayYeah, but it doesn't work for me oddly enough. Not sure what I'm screwing up but I don't reboot too often so I'm not stressing it.00:27
lcukStskeeps, as long as it can get fed on creation and doesnt lag it shouldnt matter from a content creation/inspection POV00:27
x29ayeah, true00:28
lcukbut im betting some will disable00:28
konttoriwell, it's around 100 kloc and it's the default indexer in ubuntu as well, so, it gets its share of review on the upstream as well00:28
Stskeepskonttori: yeah, - except upstream isn't running on a battery all the time :)00:28
lcukkonttori, what works on desktop doesnt always work well on device - ie theres things like hot swap to cater for00:28
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konttoriAnd it runs nice 19. On usb cable attach, it pauses and detaches from any files its reading so that you can mount properly00:28
x29aRaytray: how did you partition your card? little vfat partition, rest ext2 or ext3?00:29
konttoriwe are so freaking fast you don't really become concerned of battery00:29
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: we still have to do the on usb cable connect choose mode thing00:29
lcukkonttori, how do you get on indexing sqlite databases?00:30
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, get johnx to do usb-connect-wizard :p00:30
RaytrayOnly two partitions, 1 gig for the system partition, the rest for storage00:30
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: i hope powerlaunch will do that really00:30
konttoriwe don't index sqlite dbs. well, we could, but we don't00:30
RaytrayNot sure what kind of partition I used for the bootable part. But vfat for the storage I think.00:30
lcukbut thats default file format for lots of apps00:30
Raytrayext3 probably for the boot thing, maybe the reverse. >.>00:30
lcuklots of quicy meta data inside all lovingly normalized already :)00:31
konttorisqlite actually would allow it quite well these days, as you can just ask nicely for the most recent changes, but really, not too much point.00:31
qwerty12_N800x29a, go for ext3, much less headaches00:31
x29ano fsck ;)00:31
konttoriif tracker doesn't know the schema of the db, there is not much point00:31
lcukdepends on the app konttori - khertan has his calendar thingy, and theres all the notes in maemopad and stuff00:31
konttoriand if it knows the schema, usually there is some nicer api to keep the data syched.00:31
x29aRaytray: i dont get the partitionlayout, the vfat will get mounted by maemo, the ext3 is where the rootfs goes?00:31
konttorie.g. what pvanhoof was writing about :
x29abut when i install software from within maemo, itll go into the vfat partition?00:32
lcuki dont mean for sync, i mean for retrieval and extraction00:32
konttorilcuk: yeah, as said, if you know the schema, then it's a different thing00:32
lcuk:) fair enough00:32
ciroipbuona sera people00:32
konttoriok, anyway, I'll hit the deck now. see you tomorrow!00:32
JaffaPerhaps Tracker should support some kind of schema enrichment alongside an SQLite db00:32
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ciroipmh, good night00:33
RaytrayI wouldn't really be the one to ask. But what I did was put the bootable one on partition 2. vfat looks to be your sd and regular storage and ext3 looks to be the one where it boots from00:33
lcukjaffa, maybe it does00:33
Raytraywhich is where software installs to.00:33
lcukim off as well00:34
x29aRaytray: ah ok, so vfat is for what shows up as 'external storage card'?00:34
x29aill just give it a shot00:35
x29a8gb sdhc, so 50/50?00:35
x29aor is 4 gb for system overkill?00:35
RaytrayHeh, you must have a ton of stuff to install :p00:35
RaytrayI stuck it at 1gig and still have about 200 mb left of space to install random stuff on.00:35
x29a2 and 6 it is then00:35
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lcukcatch you later folks00:42
x29acya lcuk00:42
* Stskeeps ponders if nitdroid stalled again00:43
x29aRaytray: so if i changed the partition of the internal mmc card to lets say ext3, it wouldnt automount and therefore save writecycles and disables it or?00:43
x29acause i only want to use my external card00:43
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RaytrayYou wouldn't be able to use it as far as I know.00:43
RaytrayUnless you mounted it yourself?00:44
x29agreat, thats my intention00:45
x29asorry to bug you with my questions and thanks a lot for your patience00:45
RaytrayIt's fine, but I'm just a random guy who had to ask pretty similar ones (and ask twice in some cases) to other people. :D00:46
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x29ai like random guys that are able to help =)00:46
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JaffaIs there a wiki page on using maemo-select-location on first install, but not upgrade?00:50
JaffaI can't remember the recipe00:50
qwerty12_N800the general put it in one of his blog posts00:51
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x29aRaytray: any idea if the vfat must be FAT16 or can be FAT32 as well?00:59
StskeepsKhertan: hehe :)00:59
RaytrayNot a clue.01:00
x29ahm, anybody else?01:00
x29aill just try FAT3201:00
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RaytrayQuite a large picture.01:02
x29apardon me?01:03
Raytray@ Khertan 's link.01:03
x29aah lol01:03
||cwx29a: fat3201:04
sistohas anyone tried a 16 gb microsd with the n810???01:05
x29aa friend of mine claims he as a 16gb one in his N80001:05
x29aso id assume it works01:05
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KhertanRaytray: large enough to see that it s run on a desktop too and not only on the nit01:12
KhertanRaytray: i ven't include the second screen but if you want a larger picture this is possible :)01:13
Khertanso ...01:13
Khertangood night everybody !01:13
* Jaffa builds a wonderful new vim packages, tests it on x86 & armel - and then realises his modifications to debian/rules won't work in the auto-builder.01:16
JaffaTime for bed, methinks.01:16
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* oli is sharing Internet from pc to n800 via bluetooth (pand)01:21
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olihow to use microb with it? it has to use wlan/bt-mobile connection01:22
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Stskeepsoli: there's a dummy connection thing01:25
oliStskeeps: i don't get what you mean01:27
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x29ahmm, the internal flash doesnt suffer from read/write operations or? so would it make a perfect place for a swappartition?01:31
ShadowJKwhat do you mean "suffer from read/write operations"?01:31
x29alike mmc cards do?01:32
x29aoh wait01:32
ShadowJKWhat exactly do you mean?01:32
ShadowJKIf you're asking whether the internal flash will eventually wear out, then yes, yes it will01:32
x29ai just realized that the internal flash is not a ramdisk, but a normal flashcard just like the other ones01:32
ShadowJKIf you're asking whether it has a high write amplification, then yes, yes it does01:32
x29aShadowJK: so putting the bootloader in the internal flash, disabled the internal mmc and putting swap and rootfs and data on the external mmc is the way to go?01:33
ShadowJKIf you're worried, yeah01:34
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Stskeeps <- Very interesting Mer photo.. :)01:47
Stskeepsa bit blurry but yeah01:48
Stskeeps(it is mer x86 on a laptop, after just installing a filesystem image)01:50
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* Andrewfblack thanks about what to work on next since MerEcho is almost done01:53
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oliStskeeps: i've installed maemo-pan 1.0.1 and theres dummy connection on the connections list, but not in the choose conn. box01:55
Stskeepsoli: hmm.01:55
olinow my n800 thinks i'm using ad-hoc (ifc wlan0 down so traffic is routed via BT)01:57
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b-manUbuntu jaunty rootstrap uploaded to  :D01:57
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x29awhats the advantage of using ubuntu instead of maemo? does it compare speedwise?01:59
wazdk, I'm back)01:59
Stskeepswb waz02:00
b-manx29a: more software compatibility, flexible, powerful, and fun :)02:01
b-manit also can be produtive)02:02
x29ab-man: hows the powermanagement and hardwaresupport?02:02
x29ai guess, in principle i could just make an extra partition (how big?), extract the tar to it and boot it or?02:02
b-manx29a: dsme, hal, wifi, bluetooth, sound (if you install closed-sorce drivers), screen diming, ect mostly works02:04
Stskeepsbut, it will work as a desktop distro, and not for 10 days02:04
b-manx29a: yes02:04
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x29aStskeeps: so i have to hibernate it everytime im done with work?02:05
x29ano just 'lock the screen and put in bag'?02:05
wazdStskeeps: evil magic! :D02:05
x29ab-man: how much storage would you suggest i give the ubuntupartition?02:05
Stskeepsx29a: it isn't very power saving :) a desktop distro means act like if its on a laptp02:05
olib-man: would it fit on 1gb mmc?02:05
Stskeepswazd: this is a x86 laptop btw02:05
x29aStskeeps: isnt there an ubuntu mobile edition which puts emphazise on power saving?02:06
b-manx29a, oil, shure, if you were to install a light desktop env, but i'd suggest 2-3 gb for ubuntu-desktop.02:07
Stskeepsx29a: yes, but it doesn't do that well. UME is basically hildon with another theme and no external daemons..02:07
wazd I knew I should make desktop wallpaper :)02:09
x29agee, i love the N810, i wonna get involved! whats that mer thing you guys seem to be working on?02:09
b-manan experimental os base on maemo and ubuntu.02:10
x29aso combining to great pieces of software to eliminate the flaws each have and result in the perfect operating system?02:12
x29asounds like a great plan02:12
Stskeepsx29a: more like the perfect mobile OS02:12
Stskeepsoh, b-man, read through
x29awhat about androids *duck and cover*02:12
Stskeepswe've updated it02:12
* b-man added article about ubuntu jaunty on
Stskeepsx29a: you'd be surprised how closed it is02:12
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b-manStskeeps: ok :)02:12
x29aStskeeps: honestly, im not expecting too much from google02:13
x29aallthough there filter will find this in a weblog 10min from now, im sure that google will take over the world, eventually02:13
b-manStskeeps: 0_o verry cool!!! :D02:14
x29ab-man: how much swap should i enable for ubuntu?02:15
b-manshure, but i have 35602:15
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x29amy ubuntu 8.10 on this laptop here (2gb) eats already 250mb of swap02:16
Stskeepsb-man: which also means you should keep your task with the installer updated when you progress in it, and note in your activity log when you do something02:16
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b-manok :)02:17
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b-mani'm guessing that i'll have to update that diagram also? :)02:18
x29ab-man: why is the link in your blogpost not clickable?02:19
b-manif you are using your N810, just tap and hold.02:20
b-manin xchat02:20
x29ana i mean where you link over to
b-manoh, i'll have to make that a link :) sorry :p02:21
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* b-man updates post02:22
x29ano problem, just figured that taking another self-effort barrier will encourage more people to actually go there and get involved ;>02:22
b-manyeah :)02:23
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b-mangrrrrr, blogspot crashes microb when trying to edit posts >:(02:27
Stskeepsb-man, wazd:  - some more high resolution Mer screenshots02:28
Stskeepsshowing the need for a 1280x800 theme ;)02:29
x29aso if im intrested in mer, do i need to get a special mer rootfs or do i get the jaunty tarball and configure it to 'have' mer?02:31
b-manspecial mer rootfs02:31
Stskeepsx29a: we will provide (for tablets) installer that gets a tar.gz and untars it on your mmc (made by b-man) or a kernel zImage and rootfs jffs202:32
x29ayeah i read that its about 70% done02:32
Stskeepsit is generated from a jaunty debootstrap though02:32
x29aim used to setting up systems with a stage1 gentoo tarball, so i guess i could somehow get it to work02:33
x29ais there a desktop manager in mer? so i could choose between a mer session and a gnome session?02:34
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Stskeepsyou can install gdm if you so want. i'm not sure if there's any more stupid gnome conflicts02:35
* b-man checks if dsme has conflicts in ubuntu jaunty02:36
b-manStskeeps: mer has it's own exclusive kernel now?? :)02:37
Stskeepsb-man: it will have one that boots straight into rootfs, not initfs02:38
Stskeepswe do this until we can distribute our own initfs02:38
* b-man wishes that initfs was open02:39
Stskeepsmm, it is in progress02:40
x29ahows the booting handled btw? does the bios of the N810 always look at a special area in the internal flash for some binary?02:40
b-manfrom a series of init scripts02:40
Stskeepsx29a: board boots NOLO which loads x-loader which loads 2nd, which loads linux kernel (i think), linux kernel mounts something, runs init on that02:40
x29ano i mean, how do they get started02:41
x29aah ok02:41
Stskeepsx-loader, 2nd, linux kernel is in flash, except when kernel is provided through USB02:41
* b-man is shocked when weather forcast claims it will be -11 tonight02:42
x29afahrenheit or celsius?02:42
b-mantoooo cold!!02:42
x29ab-man: where you from? alaska? siberia? greenland?02:43
b-manunited states02:43
b-manBowiling Green02:43
x29ahehe ok ok02:44
b-man(google earth it ;) )02:44
x29anah, i was just curious, where it would get that cold02:45
x29athen again, who trusts weather fc?02:45
b-mani isn't suppose to be this cold here, even for january02:45
b-manaverage low; 1802:46
b-manaverage high; 2602:46
b-mancurrent high; 302:46
Stskeepswazd: :>02:48
x29awhich repo do i need to apt-get install binutils?02:48
Stskeepswazd: just imagine what you can do on a 1280x800 touchscreen..02:51
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Stskeepsr2d2rogers: imager can now build 770 images btw03:14
x29ado i need to use cal-tool to change the bootloaderconfig or is there a file somewhere?03:20
Stskeepsbbl sleep03:20
x29ai want to reduce the amount of seconds it waits until boot2default03:20
x29aStskeeps: gn803:21
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x29aweird, now im running maemo from external sdcard and just gut a random reboot03:37
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x29aand again03:39
x29aRaytray: is your system running ok? without sudden reboots?03:40
RaytrayYeah it runs fine.03:40
RaytrayThough it has crashed a bit more recently03:40
x29adid you clone a clean image to the card or the image you were using already03:41
x29alike should i flash the phone, clone, then install apps or does it not matter03:42
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x29ahmm, where can i tell maemo not to try to mount the internal card and tell it to swap on 1p4? thought thats what /etc/fstab is for03:56
sistois the n810 wimax edition ever going to be released?03:56
sistoor are they just going to skip it and release a 3g version?03:57
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sistoit seems the wimax version was canceled:
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Macerit is cold here04:09
Maceri think we are at -11F04:09
Macercars arent starting because i am thinking the gasoline is freezing04:10
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x29atightvnc with resolution scaling would be nice04:39
b-manupdated ubuntu jaunty guide to include rootstrap image;
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wald0is chinook the last system for n800 ?05:45
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b-manno, diablo05:49
wald0b-man: where i can see a changelog, screenshots, etc of diablo ? (so that know if i would like to update hte firmware)05:52
wald0is a stable release or just a development one ?05:53
soapanyone going to SCaLE?  Don't see Maemo on the list.05:55
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wald0b-man: mmh, i dont see any changelog there or nothing talking about his features05:58
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* b-man looks for a changelog :)05:59
wald0anyways... it is much better than chinook (that actually i have), b-man ?06:00
b-manyes :), diablo allows you to upgrade without a computer, it has better features, and it's more stable06:02
b-man(in a nut shell)06:02
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wald0heh, well, not sounds bad :) in any case updates should be better than older software/system, i will update tomorrow then :)06:04
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b-mangood luck :)06:04
wald0thx, np :)06:04
soapgasoline does not freeze at -11F, and water-in-gas-freezing is rare these days with 10% eth blends.06:09
* b-man allmost falls asleep in front of his computer -- drank too much coffie -- caffien makes him sleepy ;p06:09
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wald0anybody knows anything about the EFL development over maemo ?06:09
wald0packages in teh repositories ?06:09
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wald0mmmh, i have chinook installed on a external SD card, how i just dump the new image to my sd card so that i dont need to install again a boot menu and stuff ?06:17
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yigalis it possible to add a "sticky" alt key to osso-xterm?07:41
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yigalI saw some irc logs from a few months ago where it was claimed that a recompile was required - this is acceptable - but doable.07:42
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AndrewFBlackeee pc08:15
AndrewFBlackmiss tell08:15
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Cbx33anyone know if ipv6 works ootb on diablo??10:12
qwerty12Looking at & , I guess it does10:15
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Meiz_n810xchat is now unthemed in Mer :(10:27
Meiz_n810i have no idea why10:28
JaffaMorning, all10:28
qwerty12morning Jaffa10:28
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KhertanMorning all !11:03
qwerty12_N800morning Khertan11:03
Meiz_n810i am planning to try adv-power in Mer, is there a replacement in Mer for all these: Depends: python2.5, python2.5-dbus, python2.5-gnome, python2.5-gtk2, python2.5-hildon, python2.5-hildondesktop, hildon-desktop-python-loader11:09
qwerty12Probably not all, but you can knock off the 2.5 on most.11:10
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StskeepsMeiz_n810: pygtk doesnt work yet sanely :(12:13
Stskeeps1280x800 Mer ;)12:14
Meiz_n810heh, i just tried to install x86 version12:15
Stskeepsits not trivial but i can tell you what to do12:15
Stskeepsyou need a ubuntu livecd12:15
Meiz_n810yes, i have one, i tried to just apt-get install hildon-desktop-env on jaunty this morning :P12:16
Stskeepshehe, its not that easy12:17
* Meiz_n810 puts the livecd in...12:18
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: first-boot-wizard came up :P12:18
Stskeepsand you're OK with overwriting the HD?12:18
Meiz_n810this computer is old and shitty, it exists for testing like this :)12:19
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Stskeepsits fine, we're using archive for x8612:19
Stskeepsbasically sudo su in terminal when you're in the livecd, cfdisk /dev/hda (or sda if that's your harddisk), erase all partitions and add one linux partition, make it bootable12:21
Stskeepsthen mkfs.ext3 /dev/hda112:21
Stskeepsmkdir -p /mnt/mer12:21
Stskeepsmount -t ext3 /dev/hda1 /mnt/mer12:21
Corsacext3 is deprecated!12:21
StskeepsCorsac: yes, i'd much rather use ZFS12:22
konttoriJaffa: You can extend the tracker schema by putting a service file to a specific folder and running tracker restart. Or did you have that in mind yesterday evening?12:22
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Meiz_n810i have been trying to install adv-powers depends, but that stupid repo is down :(12:23
StskeepsMeiz_n810: yeah.. and pygtk wont work12:24
Stskeepsso it's a uphill battle12:24
wazdnoon all)12:25
qwerty12morning :P12:25
StskeepsMeiz_n810: and then cd /mnt/mer; wget mer-x86-generic-fs-only-image.tar.gz12:25
Stskeeps.. better yet, let me get coffee and not make an idiot of myself12:26
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Meiz_n810now it will download about 20 min12:30
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Meiz_n810then just tar -zxvf and rest of the wiki-steps?12:32
Stskeepstar pzvxf yeah - is your hd hda or sda btw?12:33
Stskeepsyes, follow guide but also chroot /mnt/mer passwd and chroot /mnt/mer apt-get install nano or whatever editor you like12:35
Stskeepsyou might want to edit /mnt/mer/usr/bin/start-hildon and change use_cursor no into use_cursor yes12:35
Stskeepsand make bloody sure your menu.lst says sda1, not hda112:36
Stskeepsyou have it connected through ethernet?12:39
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qwerty12Jaffa, I think you were looking for y/day. (I personally like to use
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Stskeepsqwerty12: i now provide 770, n8x0 tar.gz's, n8x0 jffs (raw and sumtooled) and x86 images as part of release process btw12:43
qwerty12Stskeeps, hah, how long does that take? :D12:43
Stskeepsqwerty12: i didn't time it but a couple of hours12:44
Stskeepsx86 is fast, obviously12:44
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qwerty12Why provide a raw image btw? A sumtooled image works out better anyway (even if it is a bit larger) :/12:45
Stskeepsmm, it was mostly as part of the process really12:45
Stskeepsso i can see how much it is without the checksums12:46
Stskeeps <- sizes atm12:47
qwerty12Now all you need is the fiasco image :p12:48
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Stskeepsand initfs hopefully :12:49
qwerty12hehe, damn licenses :P12:50
aquatixhm, is it an idea to port localepurge - Automagically remove unnecessary locale data  to maemo?12:55
qwerty12or even
aquatixah, i should've googled first :)12:55
* Stskeeps ponders how much docpurge would bring these days12:55
aquatix /usr/share/locale is 43MB here12:56
Stskeepsnow where did i put docpurge..12:57
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StskeepsMeiz_n810: how is it?13:00
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Meiz_n810Stskeeps: now unpacking13:07
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Meiz_n810Stskeeps: i cannot reach internet from Mer chroot :(13:16
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: works now after dhclient13:17
Stskeepsyeah resolv.conf13:17
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Meiz_n810Mer did not boot13:22
Meiz_n810i'm on busybox now13:22
Stskeepsdid you edit your menu.lst?13:22
Meiz_n810no.. it looked alright13:23
Stskeepsedit hda1 -> sda113:23
Meiz_n810it should already be sda...13:24
Meiz_n810lol, what a stupid error, it is hda13:25
StsN801told you13:25
Meiz_n810yes, but i was sure i checked it13:25
pupnik_so in thailand they used anti-armor shots against the protestors.  shells ripped their bodies apart.13:29
pupnik_wrong channel nm13:29
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StskeepsMeiz_n810: any luck?13:44
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Meiz_n810yep, it boots now13:46
Meiz_n810i'm now installing some stuff13:46
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Meiz_n810but the enter key near letters is dead 0_o13:49
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Meiz_n810hello, johnx13:51
StskeepsMeiz_n810: yeah, weird issues13:51
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Stskeepshow's speed?13:53
Meiz_n810pretty good13:54
Meiz_n810i think13:54
Stskeepsqwerty12: btw, does mer-xchat require maemo-select-location? (do we even have that?)13:55
Meiz_n810it recuires13:55
qwerty12Stskeeps, no, I forgot to remove it as a dependency :/. You can remove the dependency fine, the postinst only runs it if it is found.13:55
Stskeepsi wonder what package it is in..13:56
qwerty12hildon-app-manager provides maemo-menu-select-location13:56
Stskeepsoh foo13:56
* RST38h moos evilly13:56
Meiz_n810how can i set screen resolution? (xorg.conf is empty)13:57
RST38hHow are things in the maemo land? =)13:57
StskeepsRST38h: <- Mer on 1280x800 ;)13:57
Stskeeps(on x86)13:57
RST38hSts: any hints on when the usable N8x0 version will be ready? =)13:58
StskeepsRST38h: well backspace and enter on the on screen keyboard kills Xorg right now13:58
Stskeepsbut hopefully soon13:58
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RST38hSts: urgh14:02
RST38hsounds weird though14:02
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RST38his it some special key combination that switches screen mode?14:03
StskeepsRST38h: i think it's some strange issue with either HAL, or a missing nozap statement14:03
Stskeepsbut on screen keyboard causing ctrl-alt-backspace is just fucked if its hat14:03
wazdRST38h: moo)14:04
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RST38hwazd: hey, adding icons right now14:08
RST38hwazd: even colem one looks semidecent14:08
wazdRST38h: I'm drawing game gear now14:09
RST38hhmm, sb2 is acting up again14:11
StskeepsMeiz_n810: what kind of resolution do you get btw?14:14
thopiekarhmm what are the differences between sb1 and sb2? my opinion is that sb2 is almost more complicated than sb1!14:14
Stskeepsthopiekar: different approach to things14:14
RST38hsb2 is saner14:14
Stskeepsunderneath sb1 is a lot more complicated than sb214:14
RST38hsb2 really isn't very complicated, just prepend all your commands with "sb2" and you are done14:14
thopiekarhmm but whats about root commands?14:15
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Stskeepssb2 -R14:15
thopiekarhmm why isn't sudo possible?14:16
thopiekar* available?14:16
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: 1600x120014:17
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: lxrandr is a good tool to set resolution, Mer 800x600 looks almost normal :P14:17
RST38hthopiekar: why would you need a root command to build a program?14:18
Stskeepsthopiekar: cos its not a VM :P14:18
StskeepsMeiz_n810: hehe, yeah, worth considering to have that as part of hildon-desktop-env or whatever :P14:18
thopiekarRST38h for sudo apt-get update; for sudo apt-get upgrade ?14:18
* RST38h never needed these from an SDK14:19
* RST38h just needs SDK to compile and package things14:19
* thopiekar thinks that keeping an SDK up-to-date is important14:20
StskeepsRST38h: in Mer it's just a flat buildd initially, that is, none of the packages installed except for build-essential and such14:20
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RST38hSts: well, all the Maemo libraries and headers have to be there14:22
Stskeepsnot really, they just have to be fetchable14:22
RST38hSts: when I install an SDK, I want to compile applications. Right away. Without extra steps.14:22
RST38hSts: The number of people who will make through these extra steps will probably be in the 25%-50% range, the rest will not develop on Mer.14:23
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StskeepsRST38h: well, on the other side, this development model is closer to how it is like with normal unix development. nevertheless, it's trivial to make a rootstrap that has those abilities14:23
Stskeepsbut it impairs people's ability to see what dev packages their software needs to build14:24
RST38hSts: When I do normal unix development, all the basic stuff is already installed14:24
StskeepsRST38h: oh, libc headers and all that crap is already there14:24
Stskeepsjust not let's say, libhildondesktop-dev14:24
RST38hSts: A situation where you had to separately install g++ and x11 headers in Linux was not "normal" by any measure14:24
RST38hSts: well, that is wrong because it is one of the base packages14:25
Stskeepsx11 headers is normal not to be there, g++ is normal to be there though14:25
RST38hSts: Not in Linux as of a few years ago14:25
StskeepsRST38h: in a build-essential setting, it is normal14:25
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RST38hSts: Also, Linux required having kernel sources just to compile "hello world" because stdio.h included some kernel include files :)14:25
Stskeepsin any case. both models are possible14:25
RST38hSts: The default model should give immediate access to whatever is available on device by default14:26
Stskeepswe just decided to use the bare sdk model (with the build tools and basic linux headers) to encourage proper packages with proper dependancies14:26
Stskeepsyou'd be surprised how many use autoconf but do not depend on it14:26
RST38hok, new emulator packages ready14:26
RST38hSts: I know, but do not.14:26
Stskeepswhich is absolutely crap when we want to make things portable :)14:27
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RST38hhm, swap file did not mount14:27
RST38hSts: You want things to work on the NIT first of all14:27
RST38hPortable is a nice-to-have14:28
StskeepsRST38h: wasn't the initial goal really - we actually wanted to avoid the tablet-isms14:28
StskeepsRST38h: anyhow - two things are possible, a rootstrap with all the dev packages installed for the foundation of mer, and a bare one where you can get the dev packages you want14:29
Stskeepsso, it's a moot question, we can just distribute two rootstraps14:29
RST38hhmmm, now it mounted...weird.14:29
RST38hSts: yes, a reasonable solution14:29
RST38hSts: And you may have more for other devices14:30
Stskeepsright now we provide a bare one cos with all the changes going on, it is difficult to pin down the exact packages14:30
Stskeepsso it's a matter of apt-get build-dep the source package, dpkg-buildpackage it :P14:30
RST38hshould just be a clearly documented one-step thing14:31
Stskeepsapt-get install mer-dev ;)14:31
RST38hno voodoo - people are reluctant to develop for a system that does not provide windows-based sdk as it is14:31
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Stskeepsbesides that, we're going to provide vmware appliances with mer installed on it, so it's possible immediately to test your applications14:33
Stskeepsand with a simple compile, bring it to the other device14:33
RST38hvmware appliance is just making the whole thing more complicated14:33
Stskeepsor install it onto your physical computer14:33
RST38hideally, you want to let users develop from Visual Studio14:33
LinuxCodeRST38h, die14:33
StskeepsRST38h: ideally, yeah, but visual studio isn't exactly a good posix devel environment..14:34
LinuxCodehow dare you mention MS stuff here14:34
StskeepsLinuxCode: his point of view is fair enough though14:34
RST38hSts: Nobody cares - these guys are used to VS and they want their VS, even if it will call GCC underneath14:34
LinuxCodesorry im sure it is14:34
Stskeepsvisual studio emulation and ability to push to device is quite decent for development14:35
LinuxCodejust trying to push foss14:35
Stskeepsnot perfect, but decent14:35
StskeepsLinuxCode: ick, gnubie14:35
Stskeeps./whois Stskeeps14:35
LinuxCodei see14:35
RST38hyou are harming your "foss" by trying to push it14:36
StskeepsRST38h: in any case we can agree it ought to be a lot easier than it is currently :P14:36
Stskeepswe really need something like Delphi on the tablets..14:37
Stskeepsor visual basic, heh14:37
RST38hworks like a charm14:37
RST38hOh you mean the RAD language...14:38
Stskeepsi dislike VB as much as the next one, but it is impressive the amount of apps created with it14:38
RST38hshitty apps though14:38
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Stskeepsstill, some people are bound to find them useful14:39
RST38h"Make a tool any idiot can use and only idiots will"14:39
Stskeepsidiots buy hardware14:39
RST38hwazd: I installed them and the icons look fine14:39
RST38hpushing into extras right about now14:41
StskeepsRST38h: we should definately get this on tablet.
RST38hSts: Let Jaffa do that, he loves Java14:43
Stskeepsyes, but anyone who loves java cannot possibly love bluej14:44
Stskeepsthat was used in the first programming course on uni14:44
* RST38h pretty much agrees with a quote he has seen somewhere - "If Java is the answer, then what the hell was the question?"14:44
Stskeepsthen they switched us to emacs + command line14:44
Stskeeps.. and then the camps of emacs users vs vim users began14:44
RST38hSts: UMD used Unix, command line, emacs, makefiles, and pc (pascal compiler) from the very start14:45
aquatixStskeeps: you mean something like glade?14:45
Stskeepsaquatix: well, maybe, but with closer integration into the language14:45
RST38hSts: Not sure what they use now, tried using Java, but it was a portability nightmare14:45
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RST38hHow about portign Kylix?14:48
Stskeepsmm, closed source isnt it?14:50
RST38hAlso check these:14:50
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Stskeepsmm, neither which is working under armel14:52
RST38hOne more link:14:53
RST38hOf course not, you have to make them work under armel14:53
aquatixkylix is old14:54
* aquatix kinda loves delphi though :/14:55
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* RST38h likes C++ Builder much more as Pascal isn't very popular language nowadays15:00
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* GeneralAntilles tries to regain feeling in his fingers.15:06
x29aanybody noticed his keyboardbacklight not turning off anymore?15:06
x29acan i read the status of the ambient light sensor?15:06
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: starting to see why there needs to be mittens mode for tablets? ;)15:07
GeneralAntillesadv-power should show it to you.15:07
Stskeeps / gloves15:07
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, I don't think I even have any gloves up here.15:07
GeneralAntillesUnless I want to wear my leather work gloves, that is.15:07
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RST38hSts: NITs need a heater mode where you overclock them and place 'em in your mittens15:08
StskeepsRST38h: it's called disabling power saving15:09
RST38hdoes not heat up that much =)15:09
* RST38h has only got his up to 32oC15:09
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RST38hGeneral: You asked for emulators with wazd's icons? Four first ones are in Extras now15:10
GeneralAntillesAh, cool.15:12
GeneralAntillesDamnit, I hate it when I accidentally buy fat free or reduced fat.15:12
GeneralAntillesI want a grocery store that only carries the fat-filled varieties.15:12
x29aGeneralAntilles: how do i get adv-power?15:13
GeneralAntillesx29a, go download it from itT.15:13
x29aah ok, its not in the repos15:13
* RST38h sends General some lard15:14
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x29aGeneralAntilles: thanks, light sensor is working still, so i dont understand why the keyboard light stays on, maybe its a daemon i installed with some program15:26
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x29adifferent question: i want to swapon my external sdcard on default, thought id put it in /etc/fstab, but its ignored, where is the right place?15:27
wald0a good list of repositories for diablo ? with a high selection of software available ?15:30
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slonopotamusgood news15:32
Stskeepshow's your insane project going, slonopotamus?15:32
slonopotamusi have absolutely working 100% native-built gentoo chroot15:32
slonopotamuswith march=armv6j15:33
slonopotamusand mtune that i can't remember ;)15:33
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slonopotamusgoing to publish it tomorrow15:35
Stskeepswhat kernel do you use, btw?15:35
slonopotamusinstructions are ready, just need to upload fs image15:35
slonopotamusvanilla itos15:35
slonopotamusi don't want to mess with it15:35
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qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, you should really teach the builder not to use the armel target for arch: all packages btw. It would save resources :)15:35
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: yeah..15:36
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: except the merbuilder never actually sees the package15:36
qwerty12_N800ah :/15:36
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: i'll add in a feature so it only builds on certain arch15:36
qwerty12_N800cool, that'd help :)15:37
slonopotamusanyone interested in gentoo chroot? ;) or will wait until bootable system?15:37
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slonopotamusfauxmight, ping. i can never find you online15:39
GeneralAntilleswald0, like qwerty12 says:
slonopotamusStskeeps, why you called it insane?15:40
Stskeepsslonopotamus: because it's one of those feats not even i would dare to go on :P15:40
Stskeepsbut im glad you succeeded :)15:41
lcuktheres quite a few insane projects going on15:41
slonopotamusStskeeps, at least now i have more packages than itos ;)15:42
lcukim sure we could make a package generator which could make packages faster than you can compile them ;)15:43
Stskeepsslonopotamus: hehe, we have most of ubuntu too though15:43
lcukslonopotamus, for as long as first boot/emerge takes 4 months i dont think adoption will be high yet :D15:44
lcukbut its fucking impressive to have it all in your hand15:44
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lcuk    << reminds me of gentoo15:45
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: now with build-x86 and build-armel15:45
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slonopotamuslcuk, you don't need to cross-build after i publish armel image15:46
lcukeven cooler then15:46
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, wicked15:46
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: (not tested)15:46
slonopotamuslcuk, and i didn't spend all that time on gentoo ;)15:46
slonopotamusand even if noone needs it, I need it. now i can easily install various useful stuff15:48
lcukslonopotamus, personal motivation is powerful15:48
wazdRST38h: ok, I'm done with gg, check your e-mail :)15:52
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RST38hwazd: Got it! It has some artefacts15:54
RST38hwazd: the corners are white15:55
wazdRST38h: ah shit15:55
RST38hit may be Ubuntu's thumbnail renderer's fault but I doubt it15:55
wazdRST38h: forgot to delete the image)15:55
slonopotamusStskeeps, do you compile with -Os or -O2?15:55
wazdRST38h: nono, my bad15:55
RST38hoh, I can do this in a text editor :)15:55
slonopotamusStskeeps, i couldn't understand what is better for device15:56
wazdRST38h: oh)15:56
wazdRST38h: is it ok now?15:56
Stskeepsslonopotamus: depends on if you're embedding things in flash or you can waste space15:57
Stskeepsthere's always -mthumb for instance15:57
RST38hwazd: the speaker grill does not scale down well15:58
Stskeepsslonopotamus: we just target march=armv5te really15:58
RST38hlooks like a dark square when scaled down15:58
RST38hwazd: I can edit it out from pngs, but it is probably better to just get rid of it in svg - does not add any useful detail, does not scale well15:59
wazdRST38h: agree15:59
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: did we have a torrent client on maemo?16:03
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qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, transmission (mostly hildonized by me)16:04
Stskeepsextras or extras-devel?16:04
Meiz_n810woo! is back :)16:06
wazdRST38h: so, next are Spec and MSX I suppose?)16:13
sistois there any maemo 5 device out yet?16:14
GeneralAntillessisto, no, expect it Summer 2009.16:15
sistoit is summer right now16:15
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sistoi guess you mean when it's summer in the north16:16
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wazdsisto: no, ofcourse he meant "summer in south africa")16:16
GeneralAntillesAs Nokia's located in Finland, yes.16:16
stv0can esbox used together with eclispe ganymede?16:17
sistodid you read about n810 wimax edition being canceled?16:17
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GeneralAntillessisto, yes, old news.16:18
sistoGeneralAntilles: wimax sucks anyway...16:18
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GeneralAntillesWell, the technology is actually OK.16:19
sistobut it's not widespread16:19
GeneralAntillesThe deployment just went really terribly.16:19
wazdsisto: we have it)16:19
GeneralAntillesYou could've made that argument against 3G 2 years ago.16:19
GeneralAntillesBut it isn't a very meaningful one.16:19
wazdsisto: but the coverage is not so great for now16:19
sistobut wimax looks like it will fail16:20
wazdsisto: good tech for big cities16:20
wazdsisto: fery fast connection16:20
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* wazd is sure that nokia totally hates him :(16:21
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sistomy opinion is that it's going to be superseded before it's even widely adopted16:21
wazdwhat the hell they don't like in this:
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aquatixwazd: ?16:23
aquatixthat's a search widget right?16:23
aquatixlooks fine to me16:23
sistomaybe the words are offensive in a some strange language?16:24
glasssisto: nobodys going to pay for a wimax subscription if they already got unlimited data 3g for cheap as peanuts..16:24
wazdglass: Wi-Max works where's no 3G16:25
wazdglass: like Moscow16:25
sistowimax is gay16:25
glasswazd: russians are slow at doing things... it's ridiculous that moscow doesn't have 3g16:26
RST38hglass: Why does Nizhnij Novgorod have 3G then?16:26
sistoUSA also took a long time to adopt 3G16:26
sistobut it was faster than Russia16:27
glassRST38h: someone bribed the right persons?16:27
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sistoi want this with android:
RST38hglass: see, now you are starting to see the light16:28
wazdglass: someone got enough money to bribe :D16:29
glasswazd: it's not just that, it's also finding the right person to bribe and not just some guy who takes the money16:30
RST38hIn Moscow, the wheels of commerce are too numerous and they all require oiling =)16:30
glassand vodka16:30
wazdglass: and bears with balalaika's16:32
wazdglass: we have them on the streets as you know)16:33
glassyeh.. i've been to karelia in mid '90s16:34
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* wazd just downloaded "Saw V"16:35
sistowazd: did you pay for it?16:35
wazdsisto: nope, why should I :)16:36
sistomovie's should be GPLd16:36
wazdwell, movies like "saw" should for sure :)16:37
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Stskeepswb meiz16:58
MeizirkkiMer really brought new life to this old machine :P16:59
Meizirkkithis is way faster now (i was using gnome)16:59
Stskeepsso running midori and xchat, eh? ;)17:01
Meizirkkiepiphany-gecko and xchat-gnome17:02
Stskeepsin 800x600 or?17:03
Meizirkki1600x1200 now17:04
Stskeepsthemes prolly look like crap :P17:04
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Meizirkkiyep, but web-sites fit better :)17:04
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Meizirkkii wonder why ubuntu-guys have ported vlc, but still no mplayer17:06
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Stskeepsmplayer is a bit more difficult in terms of legal things i think17:11
johnx_Meizirkki, for ARM?17:12
Stskeepslo johnx17:12
johnx_hey Stskeeps17:12
Stskeepsjohnx_: i've put x86 image up for kicks now17:13
johnx_I'm not so sure if it's a legal thing...17:13
Stskeepsseems to boot without too much difficulty17:13
johnx_how's it look at different resolutions?17:13
Meizirkkicheck my picasa17:13
Stskeepsas well17:13
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Stskeepsroope_: wallpaper looks absolutely stunning on 1600x1200 :P17:15
Stskeepsjohnx_: also good fact to know, 770 backspace kills Xorg too17:16
johnx_I was looking at X keymap handing a little bit17:16
johnx_I have an idea to try17:16
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Stskeepsit is a possibility that cos its a minbase, we dont have console-common and such17:17
johnx_nope. I debootstrapped normally in ubuntu/zaurus and installed everything up to a full dev environment, then added hildon-desktop-env17:18
johnx_same weird keymap issue17:18
Stskeepsjohnx_: also i've added item "Make hildon-desktop-env use a configuration file to determine wether it needs to show cursor or not (useful for x86) "17:18
Stskeeps(just catching you up :P)17:19
johnx_possibly we should borrow some machine detection scripts / conf files from angstrom/OE since they have it figured out on a wide variety of machines17:19
Meizirkkih-i-m doesn't crash anything on x86...17:19
johnx_X keymaps: I think it has to do with the x server having reference to a US keymap thus causing the auto HAL keymap to not be used.17:20
StskeepsMeizirkki: can i see your xorg.conf?17:20
Stskeepsin /etc/X11/xorg.conf17:20
johnx_anyways, I can test easily17:20
Meizirkkiit's empty in x8617:20
StskeepsMeizirkki: k17:20
johnx_right :)17:20
b-manjohnx: exactly17:20
Stskeepsjohnx_: that's a possibility17:20
Stskeepsmaybe removing the reference would help17:21
b-manhal/keymap problem - from what i've seen17:21
johnx_just got in the door, have to get things booted :)17:21
Stskeeps(xorg.conf comes from imager, btw)17:22
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* b-man wonders how horrible gimp would look in mer17:27
Stskeepsfloating things wouldnt go that well, yeah17:28
johnx_you could force it to use dialog windows ...17:28
johnx_that is a big problem of matchbox IMHO :/17:28
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* RST38h yawns17:32
RST38hthis audio problem will kill me17:32
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Stskeepsandre__: any chance we can get a 'Mer' product in (like browser extras, canola)17:45
Stskeepswe're getting organized now and with every software there's bugs, so :)17:45
andre__yes, i'd love to set that up for you :)17:46
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andre__i just got home, will ping you back later today, if that's ok17:46
Stskeepsyes, of course17:46
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Stskeepsin we are also listing bugs that were reported to components as part of our development process now17:47
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GeneralAntillesandre__, what, you didn't hear? Sunday afternoon you're required to do at least 8 hours of work in 3 hours unpaid. :P17:48
Stskeepsisn't it saturday today or did i sleep 24 hours too long?17:48
andre__GeneralAntilles: shush... good that it's only saturday so i got one day to prepare17:48
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* GeneralAntilles lost track of the days.17:49
GeneralAntillesOr typo?17:50
johnx_dunno what you guys are on about. it's sunday here...17:50
GeneralAntillesWhich one sounds less like I'm losing my mind. :P17:50
RST38hhow do I lock an ubuntu desktop?17:50
johnx_System -> lock screen17:50
RST38hdon't see an option17:50
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RST38hTHANKS =)17:50
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johnx_lot of qwerty12 here tonight (!)18:05
qwerty12I've been cloned :-)18:06
GeneralAntillesNeed any clone killing? :P18:07
qwerty12No thanks, after IRC, I'm taking over the world :P18:07
Stskeepswazd: could you create a 800x600 256-color splash screen with the logo btw? (for x86 splash)18:07
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johnx_oh BTW, got a hands on with that new sony vaio P thing :)18:10
b-mancool! :D18:11
b-manwho was the performance?18:11
johnx_I can never get a feel for performance on a vista computer18:11
johnx_but it was surprisingly nice to type on18:11
johnx_I don't use vista except at computer stores so I don't know what happens fast and what happens slow18:12
johnx_didn't seem too quick though18:12
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GeneralAntillesBetcha it'd fly with Mer.18:12
johnx_heh, it'd fly with lxde or xfce/compiz18:13
johnx_probably would be just as fast as XP in gnome/compiz18:13
johnx_and with a decent touch-nub and a 1680x720 screen I think it calls for a normal desktop18:13
GeneralAntillesIs it touchscreen?18:13
johnx_don't think so18:14
johnx_has an IBM-style trackpoint and 'mouse buttons' on the front edge, below the space bar18:14
GeneralAntillesI haven't been paying any attention at all except to laugh at the spoofs of Sony's advertising on Engadget.18:14
johnx_I think in width it's almost as wide as an hp mini 1000 which explains the keyboard18:14
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johnx_GeneralAntilles, have you seen the original video that came from on sony's Japanese website?18:15
GeneralAntillesIt looks like what a set of colored pencils would come in.18:15
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johnx_well, you've seen the original pic, right?18:15
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* b-man finds a really good connection with 300kb/s - taking less than 20 minutes to download gnome :)18:16
johnx_they were running the video that pic comes from on a billboard-sized screen downtown tonight :)18:16
Stskeepsb-man: hehe, walking outside in the snow for open wifi?18:17
b-manno, in my room on my bed18:17
andre__Stskeeps, I need: Product name; Product Description; Component names and their descriptions; versions; milestones.18:17
x29awhats a good initscript where i can a swapon command since /etc/fstab seems to be ignored?18:18
andre__Stskeeps, Default QA Contact would be something like "general-bugs@mer.garage.bugs" that people could add to their email watchlist in case they are interested in mer bugmail18:18
Stskeepsandre__: k - writing up18:19
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Stskeepsandre__: and it's alright to start out with an initial setup as we are not very split up in components just yet and then alter as comes?18:20
andre__Stskeeps, sure, totally fine18:20
andre__Stskeeps, probably answer my questions by either pastebin or email to aklapper at openismus dot com18:20
b-mangnome allrety 79% done downloading at this time -- fast :)18:22
lcukStskeeps, dont most desktop versions use 1024?18:22
x29ahm, nobody an idea?18:22
Stskeepslcuk: usplash recommends 800x60018:23
lcukreasonable enough18:23
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x29aCorsac: will rcS get executed against the shell?18:24
Corsacx29a: that was just a typo sorry :)18:25
x29aoh lol18:25
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johnx_x29a, where are you keeping swap? on a partition? in a file? which card? if it's a card you remove sometimes you'll want to have maemo handle swapon/swapoff as part of the card mount/umount procedure18:27
johnx_and in that case there is a script in /usr/sbin/ called for that18:27
johnx_Stskeeps, hmm, my idea about trying to make HAL handle the keymap doesn't seem to have helped...18:27
Stskeepsjohnx_: hmm18:27
x29ajohnx_: thanks, its a partition at /dev/mmcblk1p4 and im running my system off the external card, so i wont remove it18:27
Stskeepsjohnx_: do we have 'kbd' driver in xorg at all?18:27
zenvoidHello Mer developpers :)18:28
johnx_x29a, then put it in whatever late-stage init script you want or make your own :)18:28
zenvoidgood to know that you never sleep no matter of your timezone, hehe18:28
johnx_hey zenvoid18:28
johnx_Stskeeps, yeah we do...but it doesn't matter if we specify it in xorg.conf. X11 has a lot of new auto-detect stuff that's kinda new...18:29
x29ajohnx_: all script in /etc/rcX.d/ will get executed, right? so i just put it in rc5 or so18:29
johnx_x29a, head /etc/inittab will tell you which runlevel the tablet uses by default. it's debian so probably rc218:30
x29aah ok, thank you18:30
qwerty12rc2 when booting without charger, rc5 when booting with charger plugged in18:30
johnx_qwerty12, iiiinteresting :) I did not know that18:31
qwerty12Or rather, having the tablet powered up with the charger plugged in18:31
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qwerty12johnx_, heh, I only realised when I saw fanoush's thing to show the current process init is starting :)18:32
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Stskeepsandre__: sent18:33
zenvoidI'm uploading some wallpapers (including the one in the screenshots that I've made). And I hope to actually start doing something more technically challenging than wallpapers soon... (it's been a busy week)18:33
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x29aqwerty12: so i best put it in /etc/init.d and symlink out of both rc levels or?18:34
Stskeepszenvoid: hehe, own artwork?18:34
qwerty12x29a, yeah, that's how I'd do it18:35
johnx_zenvoid, are those redistributable?18:35
zenvoidStskeeps: oh, yes, own photos18:35
Stskeepszenvoid: impressive :)18:35
zenvoidfree, Creative Commons Attribution 3.018:35
Stskeepsjohnx_: wallpapers are referred to in .desktop files in /usr/share/wallpapers or how was it?18:36
zenvoidthere is a default wallpaper in the theme18:36
Stskeepsjust pondering how the hildon wallpaper chooser gets it from18:36
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qwerty12Stskeeps, it does18:37
johnx_ /usr/share/backgrounds18:37
Stskeepsclose enough18:37
Stskeepszenvoid: you're more than welcome to package up a wallpaper pack18:38
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zenvoidI think that the default wallpaper is in mentioned in the theme config file...18:38
zenvoidStskeeps: OK18:38
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Stskeepsjust images placed somewhere and .desktop files pointing to them in /usr/share/backgrounds18:39
x29aqwerty12: #! /bin/sh <nl> swapon /dev/mmcblk1p4 should do the trick or?18:41
x29ahm, did i forget +x?18:41
qwerty12Sounds simple enough to work.18:41
andre__Stskeeps, done. also gave you editbugs and canconfirm permissions18:42
Stskeepsandre__: thank you18:42
Stskeepsandre__: much appreciated :)18:42
zenvoidah, yes, the .desktop file (wow, it is amazing how fast I forgot things...)18:42
GeneralAntillesSpeech! Speech!18:42
lcukfor completeness of this discussion, selection of current desktop is stored here ;) /home/user/.osso/hildon-desktop/home-background.conf18:44
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zenvoidI'll upload more in that directory when having some free time18:47
johnx_do you travel a lot or is this around where you live?18:47
johnx_they're all gorgeous...18:48
zenvoidjohnx_: thanks!!! :D most of them are from madrid/spain18:48
zenvoidjohnx_: I would love to travel to japan some day, hehe18:49
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johnx_hmm...maybe I should dig through my flickr account and see if there's anything worth cropping to 800x48018:49
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x29abtw, where is the xorg.conf on maemo? could i drive the display with 1024x768?18:50
johnx_x29a, no18:50
zenvoidthe original (full res) photos are in my web pages18:50
x29aitd interpolate and get blurry but thats ok18:50
x29ajohnx_: i want to vnc on a 1024x768 system, the vncviewer doesnt support scaling and i hate scrolling18:51
johnx_x29a, it's a framebuffer limitation18:51
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johnx_in fact it's a limitation at every level :)18:51
x29aso i have to get tightvnc running on the device18:51
x29aor $client that supports scaling18:51
johnx_xserver, framebuffer, lcd controller (most likely), and the lcd itself18:51
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x29aif i find a .deb of tightvnc built for arm-arch, that should work right?18:52
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johnx_not necessarily: if you had an armel deb of tightvnc that was built against the right versions of the libraries you'd be fine18:53
johnx_but maemo doesn't really line up with any debian release. newer versions of some libs, older versions of others18:53
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x29ai see, bummer18:57
johnx_do you have scratchbox?18:58
johnx_might not be too hard to build...18:58
x29ato build it my own?18:58
x29ano, i didnt set anything up yet18:58
x29amight be just the right moment for it though ;018:58
johnx_or you could try unpacking a debian armel .deb of it and running it :)18:58
johnx_who knows? it might "just work"18:58
johnx_zenvoid, heh...the problem with making backgrounds out of my photos is finding 1) decent photos 2) that I happened to shoot in landscape :)18:59
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zenvoidjohnx_: hehe... my photos were all very crappy until I've changed my camera and purchased a set of very good objetives19:01
johnx_I think I'm starting to develop a better sense of 'what makes a good picture' so it might be time to buy a better camera soon19:02
zenvoidjohnx_: if you have good objectives, sometimes you'll get a nice looking photo, even my mistake ;-)19:04
lcukjohnx_, im usually happy that i manage to get the subject in the picture19:04
lcukmy youngest takes better pics than me :D19:04
johnx_I grabbed a couple, but 2mp is starting to limit me I think19:04
lcukhubble uses 1mpixel19:05
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zenvoidjohnx_: the mp are not important19:05
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zenvoidjohnx_: is much important the quality of the glass19:06
lcukquality of  the sensor19:06
johnx_s/2mp/7 year old camera/ :)19:06
lcukget a newer one, if for nothing more than faster processing and larger lcd on the back19:06
zenvoidjohnx_: think of a HIFI system in wich you attach a set of $10 speakers19:07
zenvoidjohnx_: the photograph pass though the optical system in the camera19:07
johnx_I do know a little bit about camera stuff. I know the lens and quality of the sensor are more important than raw megapixels19:07
johnx_but even the resolution limit is keeping me from cropping19:08
zenvoidjohnx_: ye19:08
johnx_anyways, neither hear nor there :)19:08
lcukthey used digital for the first time to take presidents' portait this year didnt they19:09
zenvoidalso, many (I think most) consumer cameras make interpolation; this means that if you use a good camera with 2mp, and enlarge the photo in the gimp (or photoshopt), you'll get better details than a photo taken with a bad 5mp camera19:10
johnx_digital zoom, right?19:11
zenvoidit was the case for my old finepix camera, 5mp pictures that were 2mp quality19:11
zenvoid*without* using digital zoom19:11
johnx_my coolpix is almost certainly guilty then :)19:12
johnx_anyways, think I'll do a crop job on these 4:
zenvoidcoolpix are decent19:12
johnx_coolpix e2500 circa 2001/2002 I believe19:12
GeneralAntilleszenvoid, isn't it amazing how that works?19:13
GeneralAntillesGet a half-way decent camera and suddenly you get half-way decent pictures.19:13
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: btw, for pushing inside, blockers of infrastructure (ferenc suggested this so they could be requirements for next iteration), ,
zenvoidGeneralAntilles: hehehe, most professional photographers will kill you if you say that to them ;-)19:14
Stskeepswe'd like to get away from launchpad, so :P19:14
GeneralAntilleszenvoid, genius transcends equipment, of course, but still. ;)19:15
lcukjoin a good racing team, start winning races19:15
zenvoidlcuk: yeah, that's also true19:15
lcukhaving the right tools in your hands allows creativity to come out easier19:17
zenvoidjohnx_: I like your photos, try to get a DSLR, the price has been dropped recently, they are much affordable now than they used to be19:17
johnx_in a couple months maybe :)19:17
Stskeepsqwerty12: jffs after docpurge is 146M btw19:18
Stskeeps(that is with sumtool)19:18
johnx_lcuk, for a long time though the camera wasn't the thing limiting my photos :)19:18
lcukheh johnx19:18
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johnx_other thing about taking good photos: it helps to be somewhere worth taking pictures of :)19:19
lcukim always too quick, see something nice point n shoot and end up with streaks several miles long19:19
lcuktracy bailey downstairs though takes good pics :)19:20
johnx_yup, relax, breath out, then shoot a couple shots19:20
Stskeepsjohnx_: is there anything in Xorg.0.log on why it dies btw?19:20
johnx_sig 1119:20
lcuk:) cant wait for n90019:20
Stskeepsjohnx_: any backtrace?19:20
johnx_0: /usr/bin/X11/X(xorg_backtrace+0x28) [0xe8530]19:20
johnx_didn't even need pastebin19:21
lcukmental note: ensure set as background is one option19:21
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Stskeepsjohnx_: heh, that looks odd :P19:21
johnx_i'll poke at it a bit more...19:22
Stskeepsi will do once my tablet has fullfilled it's Transmission-related duties19:23
johnx_I think we might have more than one keymap / input problem ...19:23
GeneralAntillesDSLR is a totally different shooting experience.19:23
GeneralAntillesYou think 4GB is enough until you start shooting at 3 or 4 FPS19:23
johnx_GeneralAntilles, and then you try and go back and cull that to post on flickr O_o;19:24
GeneralAntillesA friend of mine just got back from Cuba with 17,000 photos.19:24
GeneralAntillesIt's been 3 weeks, he's through 3,500.19:24
Corsacand shooting RAW pictures takes some place to19:25
b-manCuba!? : shutters:19:25
lcukits things like this that make me wonder how border partol people can examine all digital devices19:25
GeneralAntillesb-man, the first student exchange program in a lotta years.19:25
johnx_lcuk, if you look suspicious, they just keep your device19:25
lcukeven more worrysome19:25
lcukanyway, vanishing ive got stuff to mangle some more19:26
johnx_the fact that I'll have to sort/delete/upload later is the main thing that keeps me from trying to get more than 4-5 shots of one thing19:26
johnx_lcuk, good luck mangling your stuff19:26
b-manGeneralAntilles: i don't think i would like to be in a country controled by a dictator ;p19:26
Corsaclcuk: they just make a copy for later19:27
GeneralAntillesb-man, LIVE in a country. ;)19:27
lcukcorsac, if everyperson on the flight has a similar digital archive thats gonna take some time19:27
Corsacbut they still have your data19:27
Corsacand be sure they know how to do data-mining and text-mining stuff :)19:28
lcuki dont mind that, i just wanna know where they get automated backup devices from that work nice and quickly and store enough info19:28
b-manGeneralAntilles: i don't think i would survive for a week in cuba :)19:28
lcukall the different formats and connections and devices etc19:28
Stskeepsb-man: you don't know spanish? ;)19:29
lcukgah though im not here19:29
Corsaclcuk: if you do know, maybe they'll hire you :)19:29
GeneralAntillesb-man, you would if you were with a student exchange program. ;)19:29
Stskeepsjohnx_: putting out 0.6 image tonight of 770, n8x0, x86, so we have something to base things on19:29
* b-man would probibly get in truble from speaking agenst the government ;)19:30
johnx_ok, confirming that the keyboard causing x server crash is different than the keymap not being quite right19:30
Stskeepsb-man: what was the status on the installer? did you fix the bootmenu item thing?19:30
b-manworking on that now ;)19:31
Stskeepswould like to take that along in 0.6 so19:31
b-manok :)19:32
johnx_oh wow19:32
johnx_think I'm close :)19:32
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Stskeepsjohnx_: 10 bucks that when you fix backspace and enter, 'a' starts killing it19:33
johnx_on n800, with usb keyboard plugged in, ctrl-c from matchbox-keyboard works fine. without the keyboard plugged in ctrl-c from matchbox-keyboard crashes the x server19:33
Stskeepsmissing keyboard description maybe?19:33
Stskeepsor that we should use evdev instead of kbd19:33
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johnx_Stskeeps, interesting note: we *are* using evdev I believe19:34
Stskeepsno, kbd19:34
johnx_hang on a sec :)19:34
Stskeepsin xorg.conf19:34
johnx_but it autodetects the keypad with hal and uses evdev to handle it19:34
* johnx_ verifies19:34
* Stskeeps looks how kulve&co did it19:35
johnx_Stskeeps, do they have n810s?19:35
Stskeepsjohnx_: it dies on n810 too i think too though? not sure19:35
johnx_does it?19:36
StskeepsMeizirkki: ?19:36
johnx_if so that means the n810's keyboard isn't getting handled by kbd either19:36
lcukanyone know if its possible to extract the files from within a vmware image19:37
lcukwithout needing to install vmwar19:37
johnx_lcuk, maybe with qemu-img?19:37
johnx_might have to convert it, then mount it19:38
lcukjust as much, ill just reinstall vmware but it plays hell with the network stack19:38
MeizirkkiXorg dies when trying to backspace or enter using h-i-m on n810: yes19:40
johnx_Meizirkki, can you install matchbox-keyboard and test it for me?19:40
Meizirkkijonhx_: yes19:40
Stskeepsjohnx_: we dont have xkb files for rx-44 either19:41
Stskeepsfdi ones that is19:42
johnx_were there fdi xkb files needed for the rx34 as well?19:42
Stskeepsdont think so19:43
Stskeepsjust su-8w19:43
Meizirkkib-man: i think you can remove adduser user and passwd user from installer. (now when there's a first-boot-wizard)19:43
b-manMeizirkki: ok :)19:45
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* Meizirkki boots to Mer19:48
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johnx_Meizirkki, does your the hardware backspace key on your keyboard work in mer in X?19:49
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Meizirkkijohnx_: yep19:49
Meizirkkihw-keyboard works well19:49
johnx_gah! this problem is so freaking odd19:50
StskeepsMeizirkki: what happens when you ln -s /dev/fb0 /dev/fb and rm the xorg.conf?19:50
Stskeepsor just mv it away19:50
Stskeepsand then try to boot it19:50
Stskeepstouch /etc/X11/xorg.conf so its just empty and not just non-existing19:51
Meizirkkijohnx_: backspace from matchbox-keyboard freezes Xorg too...19:52
* Meizirkki pulls the battery off...19:52
johnx_freezes or crashes?19:52
Meizirkkifreezez like it does with h-i-m19:52
Stskeepsjohnx_: crashes19:53
Stskeepscos of fb_update_mode i guess19:53
johnx_if we had another problem I would probably just go crazy19:53
MeizirkkiStskeeps: can i do ln -s /dev/fb0 /dev/fb1 before rebooting? (will i have to do it every boot?)19:54
StskeepsMeizirkki: er.19:54
johnx_Meizirkki, you have a wireless router, right? might want to setup sshd to avoid doing a battery-pull, reboot cycle19:55
johnx_especially if you want to do testing for this bug :)19:55
Stskeepsjohnx_: network-manager dies along with xorg19:55
Stskeepsit's silly that way19:55
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Stskeepsas in, connection gets shut down19:55
johnx_yeah, might want to set it up in /etc/network/interfaces then19:55
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johnx_(for testing, not for the end product)19:56
Meizirkkii'll test first with empty xorg.conf19:57
Stskeepsit probably wont work but hey :P19:58
johnx_interesting note: my hardware usb keyboard is also pulled in by HAL it seems19:59
johnx_yeah, that kbd entry in xorg.conf isn't responsible for anything20:00
johnx_doesn't matter if it's there or not20:00
Stskeeps(II) Cannot locate a core keyboard device.20:02
Stskeeps(II) The server relies on HAL to provide the list of input devices. If no devices become available, reconfigure HAL or disable AllowEmptyInput.20:02
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johnx_worth a shot20:03
johnx_err...wait, nm :)20:03
MeizirkkiStskeeps: xserver did not come up without xorg.conf: Failed to load module "fbdev", module does not exist.20:03
Meizirkkiwith fbdev installed, i think it would come up20:04
Meizirkkiwhat i think it weird is that ESC key is tab at the same time O_o20:05
johnx_yeah, there is possibly (likely) more than one keymap problem20:06
Meizirkkibut that's simple, one time, it's ESC key. two times in a row, it's Tab :)20:07
Stskeeps"Just in case someone gets bitten by this in the meantime, there is a workaround. Pressing any key on a real keyboard fixes it for the session."20:07
Stskeepsyou have to be kidding me20:07
Stskeepsdoes it exhibit that for you?20:08
johnx_will test again, one sec20:08
Stskeepsi guess they might mean real keyboard -attached-20:09
Meizirkkiit does not matter if i press some hw-keys, h-i-m and matchbox-kb will still crash X20:09
johnx_Stskeeps, ok, yeah. same bug20:10
Stskeepsfair enough20:10
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Stskeepsi'll annotate that on our sprint then20:10
johnx_there's a caveat though: pressing a hardware key on a normally mapped keyboard fixes the problem for as long as that keyboard is plugged in20:10
Stskeepsso if you press first at HIM with keyboard plugged it, it dies20:11
johnx_Meizirkki, the N810's keyboard isn't supported by X in the same way most other keyboards are I believe20:11
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Stskeepsjohnx_: well then, problem solved,we wait for xorg/jaunty to update it :P20:13
johnx_yeah. suppose so. we don't want to start messing with all of xorg I think20:13
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r2d2rogersso hit a hardware key before hitting the bksp in h-i-m?20:14
Meizirkkir2d2rogers: doesn't work on n810 at all20:14
r2d2rogersgotta get groceries... I'll check in later...20:15
johnx_won't help on 770 or n8x0 unless the key you hit is on a usb keyboard and you leave it plugged in20:15
r2d2rogershave a good weekend20:15
johnx_'later r2d2rogers20:15
Stskeepsthe entire imaging phase of 770, n8x0, x86 is 3 hours 52 minutes20:16
Meizirkkiguys who reported that using x86 or arm?20:16
Meizirkkii can use h-i-m on x86 with no prob20:16
StskeepsMeizirkki: enter and backspace didnt work and you possibly used hardware keyboard before20:16
johnx_Meizirkki, unplug your keyboard :)20:17
Meizirkkistill doesn't crsh20:18
Meizirkkihard to use h-i-m without touchscreen ;P20:18
Stskeepsmouse :P20:18
johnx_Meizirkki, can you launch matchbox-keyboard and try it?20:19
johnx_also, is your keyboard usb or ps2?20:19
Meizirkkion x8620:19
Meizirkkisec i'll install matchbox-kb20:20
johnx_thanks :)20:20
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* Stskeeps checks if the new version from 2 hours ago was compiled for xorg yet20:20
Stskeepsseems so20:20
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* Stskeeps tries to update20:22
Stskeepsif the new version works, im gonna remake the images20:22
qwerty12All of them? :/20:22
johnx_would be so great to have this sorted. I was soooo freaking sure it was the same bug we found before :/20:22
Stskeepsqwerty12: just 3 hours :)20:22
Stskeepsalmost 4 :P20:22
qwerty12Stskeeps, hehe, you must have a lot of patience :D20:23
Stskeepsqwerty12: no, exams to read up for :P20:23
Stskeepsso i am occupied while waiting20:23
Stskeepsjohnx_: seems like new branch is out20:23
Stskeepsim testing20:24
Meizirkkijohnx_: matchbox-keyboard did not crash X on x8620:24
MeizirkkiStskeeps: i just ran imager, so that means i have the new one?20:25
johnx_Meizirkki, thanks for testing. :) I still give it 90%+ odds that the bug Stskeeps found is the one causing this20:25
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StskeepsMeizirkki: entirely possible20:25
MeizirkkiStskeeps: i am not using the latest ones20:25
Meizirkkiupgrading now...20:26
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* Meizirkki reboots to see if X dies when no hardware-buttons are pressed at all20:28
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Stskeepsjohnx_: i can backspace!20:28
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johnx_Stskeeps, this is already compiled for ARM?20:28
johnx_also this means people should be able to use matchbox-keyboard with roxterm20:29
johnx_sub-optimal, but at least it's something20:29
* qwerty12_N800 wants gdk issue fixed so he can use h-i-m in roxterm20:30
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Meizirkkih-i-m works now20:31
Meizirkkion n81020:31
Stskeepsmaybe it does with enter and stuff on x86 too then20:31
johnx_we found the problem right before it would have gone away on it's own :)20:31
Meizirkkijohnx_ / Stskeeps: h-i-m crashes X on x86 too20:32
Stskeepscrashed you mean20:32
Stskeepsshould be fixed now20:32
johnx_Meizirkki, good. that makes me feel better about the world :)20:32
Stskeepsright then, i'm going to build new 0.6 images then20:32
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johnx_and I'm going to sleep20:33
johnx_work tomorrow :/20:33
qwerty12_N800hah, a time where it doesn't help living in the future :p20:34
* Meizirkki dist-upgrades x86 one too.20:34
johnx_qwerty12_N800, nah, it's just that I work sundays20:34
qwerty12_N800johnx_, ah :/, i thought it would be monday because you said before that it's already sunday :/20:36
johnx_right now, sunday 3:36 AM20:36
johnx_I'm only ~9 hours ahead of you20:36
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qwerty12_N800Ah :)20:37
Meizirkkiphew, ESC/Tab key still works :P20:37
Meizirkkiit's nice to have Tab key in terminal :)20:37
qwerty12_N800Tab-completion is for the weak!20:38
* qwerty12_N800 is weak20:38
x29aMeizirkki: how did you (and which one) bind a key to tab? /me is need!20:38
Meizirkkix29a: Tab and ESC are completely same key in mer :P20:39
x29ameh, maemo plain simple standard here20:39
qwerty12_N800x29a, search itt, its been done before20:39
x29aok, just thought hed spoil me and tell me directly20:40
x29anice try i guess, sry20:40
johnx_x29a, it really is different between mer and maemo :)20:40
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Stskeepsi mightt have the explanation why maemopad and such are unthemed20:42
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Stskeepsjohnx_: your hildon-desktop-env in bzr?20:42
johnx_yeah, bzr is latest20:43
johnx_I always export from that for packages20:43
* Stskeeps reboots into mer20:44
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RST38hBTW, I have just fixed a fat, big audio problem in VGBA20:56
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GeneralAntillesDoes that means sounds will be louder?20:56
johnx_woo! is it related to sound playing even when it's disabled?20:56
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RST38hGeneral: no, it means sounds will be righter.20:59
RST38hjohnx: is it playing when disabled? really?20:59
RST38hand disabled where?20:59
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johnx_in the GUI, in FF3 (or is it 6?)21:00
Stskeepsjohnx_: theming problem fixed21:00
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Stskeepsjohnx_: dbus was run before exporting gtk theme21:01
johnx_hi Omegamoon :)21:01
johnx_Stskeeps, aaah. great!21:01
Omegamoonjohnx_: good evening21:01
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Stskeepsright, building 0.6 now :P21:05
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johnx_I should be really sleeping now21:06
MeizirkkiStskeeps: about 2 hours ago downloaded imager did not install dsme-tools, could you add it to n800 target?21:06
StskeepsMeizirkki: it should be21:07
Stskeepslemme see21:07
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Stskeepsyou're right21:07
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Meizirkkiis python-gnome an important part of the adv-power?21:11
Stskeepswe have a problem with python-gtk atm21:11
Stskeepswhich sucks, but pymaemo is -- interesting21:11
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Meizirkkiok, now i see why adv-power did not come up :P21:12
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Meizirkkiis hildon-theme-harry part of the fremantle?21:13
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Stskeepsi'm not sure really21:14
Stskeepsnot sure it's even public21:14
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StskeepsMeizirkki: can you try experimenting with the theme at btw?21:16
Stskeeps(there's a deb)21:16
Stskeepsthe -liberty one21:16
* Meizirkki reboots to see how liberty looks like21:20
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MeizirkkiStskeeps: looks nice, but how can i get the icons?21:23
Meizirkkiicons are missing21:23
Stskeepsthere's a gtkrc in the theme dir.. add ..21:23
Stskeepsfind # Icon size21:26
Stskeepsadd gtk-fallback-icon-theme = "hildon"21:26
Stskeepsafter that21:26
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Meizirkkiok, thanks21:26
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* lcuk ties lardman to the chan21:29
Shadow_Mhey is anyone having  the issue that flashblock doubles the window and allows one to play21:29
GAN800lcuk, then the whole damn thing is just gonna leave with him.21:30
lcukheh yeah21:31
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lcukhold on21:32
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Stskeepswazd: hehe, you've been busy :)21:34
lcukwazd, whats the wasted area on the right for?21:35
lcuk(otherwise v cool looking)21:35
Stskeepswazd: curious21:35
Stskeepswhat would be the title menu?21:35
Stskeepswhen an app is loaded21:35
wazdlcuk: well, that's for close/minimize :)21:35
Stskeepswazd: saw my question about a 800x600x256colors splash screen earlier btw?21:36
Stskeeps(for x86 splash :P)21:36
wazdStskeeps: I've came up with 2 variants: Mer button or application's icon21:36
wazdStskeeps: np, wait a sec21:36
Stskeepswazd: hmm.. if we speak touch, the area in the exact middle could be interesting21:36
wazdStskeeps: wanna move "mer" there?)21:38
Stskeepswazd: well i still want to be able to launch apps from within other apps21:38
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* wazd pretending Steve Jobs21:40
wazdStskeeps: who needs it? Nobody!21:40
Stskeepsmultitasking, eh21:40
RST38hmoo, wazd21:41
RST38hwazd: ines,vgb,vgba,colem went out into Extras21:41
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Shadow_Malready updated21:42
Shadow_Myay me21:42
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wazdRST38h: I've already installed them, awesome looking)21:44
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wazdRST38h: should I make icons for Spec and msx?21:44
Stskeepswazd: is that 256 colors?21:45
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Stskeepsseems so21:45
wazdStskeeps: well, my settings tells me so)21:45
Meizirkki WTF? this looks BEAUTIFUL !!!21:46
* Stskeeps takes away Meizirkki's caffeine pills21:46
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wazdStskeeps: thats some crazy dithering setting. Doesn't harm the image so hard21:47
Stskeepswazd: btw, all those stuff, is it like a image hosting thing like imageshack or your own? we need to make a gallery of all your stuff at some point so we dont loose it :P21:47
wazdMeizirkki: thanks)21:47
Stskeepsive lost track of where i got the mer rescue menu stuff, for instance :>21:47
Meizirkkican i get desktop like that somehow? :P21:47
StskeepsMeizirkki: if you make it ;)21:47
StskeepsMeizirkki: that's a mockup, btw21:47
Stskeepsas in, not real, but could be real someday21:48
wazdStskeeps: Maybe I shoud make picassa album or something21:48
Meizirkkiredlinux has a hildon like that...21:48
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Meizirkkiliberty theme looks cool too :P21:49
StskeepsMeizirkki: scrshot?21:49
MeizirkkiStskeeps: could that be used as a default theme?21:49
StskeepsMeizirkki: yes, thats a thought21:50
RST38hwazd: A Speccy one would be good + if you can remove the speaker grill from the GG, I would appreciate it (Inkscape mangles the svg somehow)21:50
StskeepsMeizirkki: we also have a small bunch of other themes in the queue21:50
RST38hwazd: For fMSX, only if it looks like the present one :)21:50
wazdRST38h: ah, you have "fMSX" on it right now)21:51
wazdRST38h: That one on the web-site is old)21:52
wazdStskeeps: what about clicking app's icon to open menu?21:53
wazdStskeeps: that will give us "mer" for whatever you like21:54
wazdStskeeps: but it will also give a problem of homescreen app menu21:54
Stskeepswazd: maybe21:55
MeizirkkiScreenshots 1,2,321:55
Stskeepslooks good21:56
RST38hwazd: the original one (black scrane, red F, white MSX in the original logo style) was made by a Japanese guy21:56
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StskeepsMeizirkki: btw, feel free to investigate on how to use as splash screen22:02
Stskeepsfor x8622:02
RST38hwazd: the one on the web site is nothing more than a boot screen22:02
StskeepsMeizirkki: it's in the right dimensions and colors so22:02
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Stskeepsevening ian_at_synth22:31
lcuklardman, have you seen this :
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ian_at_synthevening, Stskeeps22:32
lcuktheres a load of other omap based projects22:32
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lcukgah! ive been trying to show him that since before22:33
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ian_at_synthstskeeps: what do you mean by "alter [themes] to use proper fallback icon theme" on the Mer blueprint page?22:34
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Stskeepsian_at_synth: for some strange reason (or to be more debian-like) our icon theme for hildon which we have from ubuntu, requires the gtkrc files to have gtk-icon-fallback-theme "hildon";22:35
Stskeepselse icons will not appear correctly22:35
Stskeepswe usually do it by editing hildon-theme-layout-422:35
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ian_at_synthso, will themes still use their custom icons, or will all themes use the same hildon icons?22:36
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Stskeepsyes, the themes will still be able to use their custom icons as far as i know22:36
wazdStskeeps: I think I know how to make everybody happy now)22:36
Stskeepswazd: christmas every day?22:37
wazdStskeeps: yep)22:37
Stskeepsit's just a minor change because we will collide with non-hildon things else :)22:37
wazdStskeeps: drawing new mockup right now22:37
Stskeepsian_at_synth: basically this change: (except the gtk-toolbar-icon-size thing, i just changed that)22:38
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ian_at_synthstskeeps: cool. you should also check out our theme sources, as they are a bit different from others made with hildon-theme-tools. for one, we have an icon template file which we slice during the build. it doesn't cover all icons obviously, but many more than thememaker does, including all the tasknav and statusbar icons, and quite a few others.22:41
Stskeepsyeah, - right now i'm including zenvoid's liberty theme, and then i'll take a look at yours22:42
Stskeepswhat licenses are your themes btw?22:45
Stskeepsjust out of curiousity22:45
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ian_at_synthstskeeps: sorry, went afk. our themes are CC-by-sa 2.5 licensed22:51
* Stskeeps wonders what the problems debian had with plankton until it got 3.0 licensed22:52
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ian_at_synthstskeeps: no idea. but actually, i just noticed that we actually already upped ours to 3.0 in our previous release as well, so no worries22:55
Stskeepsi'm not much of a license nazi unless it gets me into trouble ;)22:55
Stskeepswazd: ooh.22:56
ian_at_synthwazd: wow nice mockup22:56
Stskeepswazd: i think the middle thing could potentially be thumb sized22:56
wazdStskeeps: and task switcher is in secret place now))22:56
RST38hwazd: imho, the extra glitz at the top bar is unnecessary22:56
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RST38hwazd: makes it look like it is made of two strips22:57
Stskeepswazd: the question is also if the whole bar belongs in bottom or top :)22:57
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Stskeepszenvoid: hildon-theme-layout-4ex now in ~mer-committers/m-r/ with two patches22:58
ian_at_synthyeah i think the top is best too22:58
qwerty12_N800top. bear in mind that hildon toolbars go on the bottom.22:58
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zenvoidStskeeps: I think that hildon-theme-liberty can be built from the standard hildon-theme-layout-4 by a small change in debian/control, if you want to avoid many hildon-theme-layout-XXX packages in the repo23:04
b-manmerinstaller-1.8.1-1_armel.deb successfuly built;   and updated the chart at
Stskeepsb-man: ta, and i'll have an image for you to test soon23:05
b-manok :)23:05
Stskeepszenvoid: didn't you change sapwood -> ubuntulooks stuff in -4ex?23:05
zenvoidyes, it depends on ubuntulooks23:05
Stskeepsthat warrants a seperate layout package for now then :)23:06
Stskeepswe'll have one for synth themes too so23:06
zenvoidif you use -4ex, the menubar for the standar (not hildonized) apps should be themed23:06
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Stskeepsi'm almost done including liberty23:07
zenvoidand maybe other widgets will be themed, I don't remember exactly what I've changed :)23:08
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zenvoidahh, and it will use Vera fonts instead of Nokia23:08
Stskeepssomeone suggested Droid Sans as well23:09
b-manStskeeps, btw, i've been working on a icon for the installer that's 50x50 but when i updated the desktop file it refuses to display it. my icon is stored in /usr/share/icons/hicolor/50x50/apps23:09
zenvoiddroid sans?23:09
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Stskeepsb-man: gtk-update-icon-cache -f /usr/share/icons/hicolor23:09
Stskeepsi think23:09
Stskeepszenvoid: android fonts, apache licensed23:10
b-manok, i'll try23:10
zenvoidStskeeps: oh, looks good, I've found them in a wikipedia article :)23:10
Stskeepszenvoid: packaging of those would be good too :)23:10
Stskeepsb-man: did you hear we fixed the crash problems?23:12
Stskeepsor upstream did23:12
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b-manhow can i apply the changes to mer/ubuntu?23:12
Stskeepsb-man: apt-get update; apt-get dist-upgrade :923:12
Stskeepsit is a xserver-xorg fix23:13
zenvoidStskeeps: yes, I need to dig into my hard disk in order to try to find any useful package waiting there :) then I hope to start doing things tomorrow23:13
b-manok, thanks!23:13
Stskeepszenvoid: alright - 0.6 image will be out tonight23:13
b-manbtw, i got an error with icon cache; Failed to write hash table23:13
Stskeepsb-man: doing it as root?23:13
qwerty12_N800How much space on / ?23:14
b-man1.24mb :p - that might be the problem ;)23:14
zenvoidStskeeps: I've just in the middle of a migration ( will be hosted under, I'll try 0.6 asap23:14
qwerty12_N800b-man, I guess so ;)23:15
Stskeepszenvoid: it's even installable on x86 for kicks :>23:15
* b-man clears some space and trys again23:15
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Stskeepszenvoid: liberty uploaded23:16
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Stskeepszenvoid: does liberty use sapwood at all, btw?23:17
zenvoidStskeeps: ok. in this moment the contents of my hard disk are a *random* collection of bytes spreaded everywere, just need to clear a bit before doing something else or I'll be crazy ;-)23:17
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Stskeepszenvoid: hehe :)23:18
Stskeepsyou should see my mer directories then :P23:18
zenvoidStskeeps: yes, it does, for most things23:18
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zenvoidStskeeps: give me a minute... I'll look23:18
Meiz_n810There is one really annoying thing in jaunty/mer. Whatever turns off the screen in 10 minutes of idling, turn off 200 things with it. This is not related to dsme-tools. If i leave my tablet idle for a 2 minuted when booted to mer, the screen is turned off by dsme-tools and tapping to the screen wakes it up. If i leave my tablet idle for 11minutes, dsme-thing will turn screen off in minute, but the other thing that existed befo23:18
Meiz_n810re dsmetools comes up in 10min. So after 10min of sleeping in Mer, my n810 has no network connection anymore, and if there was apt running it was interrupted, and nm-applet wont connect until i reboot.23:18
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StskeepsMeiz_n810: yeah, there's a problem with network manager23:19
Stskeepsi suspect it has to deal with scanning23:19
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Meiz_n810Stskeeps: this isn't problem with network-manager, there is a thing that turns screen off even if dsme-tools in not installed23:20
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StskeepsMeiz_n810: xset --help23:20
Stskeepsthe dpms / blanking thing possibly23:20
Meiz_n810it interrputs apt and wifi even if i'm connected via iwconfig23:20
ian_at_synthzenvoid: what are you using ubuntulooks for?23:21
zenvoidStskeeps & ian_at_synth: if you build a theme with hildon-theme-layout-4ex, the GtkMenuBar, GtkPaned, GtkEntry and some of the GtkToggleButton will be ubuntulooks23:22
zenvoidI think it will work with any theme23:22
RST38h(scary, scary stuff)23:22
ian_at_synthi see23:23
dick-richardsonis red pill mode usefull for anything at this point?23:23
Stskeepsdick-richardson: it's good for getting GeneralAntilles upset, usually23:24
RST38hdick: useful for seeing lotsa tentacles23:24
RST38hotherwise, apt-get will do the same job23:24
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zenvoidStskeeps: my idea was to use ubuntulooks for most widgets, except the hildon controls which require pixmaps (those will use sapwood), but the idea was not complete23:25
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dick-richardsonthere are updates available in red pill mode (and apt-get) that require removing osso-software-version-rx4423:25
Stskeepszenvoid: *nod* recompiling ubuntulooks towards our GTK right now23:25
dick-richardsonprobably don't want to do that I'm guessing23:25
zenvoidStskeeps: the reason was just easier to port stardard apps that looks like a desktop linux23:26
dick-richardsonis it a meta package?23:26
Stskeepszenvoid: yeah, that's one of the goals of Mer, so23:26
zenvoidStskeeps: ah, ok, good to know23:27
Stskeepsas in, making it easy to hildonize, get things looking well on mobile devices, etc23:27
Stskeepsnot having to port 1314 libraries23:27
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Jaffadick-richardson: yes, it's the meta-package used to enable SSU23:29
dick-richardsonthank you :)23:29
zenvoidStskeeps: just the same :) I removed all rounded windows in the -liberty theme (compared to plakton) to make stardard apps fit well23:30
Meiz_n810dick-richardson: you can remove it, but if you want to get SSU updates, install the unlocked version instead23:30
dick-richardsonwhere's the unlocked version?23:31
Meiz_n810unlocked version allows you to install newer versions of system packages23:31
Meiz_n810but still get SSU updates too23:31
Meiz_n810it's  in the same repo23:32
dick-richardsonis it in a repo?23:32
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dick-richardsongot it, thank you!23:34
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RST38hAnyone knows is battle of wesnoth can be installed to mmc1?23:35
Stskeepszenvoid: liberty works great23:37
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Stskeepsgnome-keyring needs to fucking die23:39
zenvoidStskeeps: Oh, that makes me happy, at least it may be used by more than one person ;-)23:40
* Meiz_n810 added some images about liberty in Mer to picasaweb...23:40
zenvoidStskeeps: hmmm... it seems that I've pached ubuntulooks. Very funny to discover things that I've actualy done myself23:41
Meiz_n810zenvoid: i like liberty too :)23:42
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Meiz_n810can it be used in maemo?23:42
zenvoidStskeeps: changelog says: Colors modified to match those in hildon-theme-liberty. Customized gtkrc for small screens (Internet Tablets).Set myself as maintainer23:42
wazdpro's: common, uses same maemo stuff, finger friendly, space economy, square23:43
RaytrayOh that looks cool.23:43
RST38hwazd: ...and now, time to redu the menu =)23:43
wazdcontras: icons are less comprehensible than text23:43
Stskeepswazd: i'll be surprised if you don't have a high paying job somewhere at the end of the year23:44
RST38hone-color white icons are good23:44
wazdwell, practicaly that layout gives us what we wanted23:44
zenvoidMeiz_n810: I think it can be used in standard maemo23:44
zenvoidMeiz_n810: but not sure :)23:44
wazdand I want to admit that it's square!)23:45
wazdsquare = rotation friendly23:45
zenvoidwazd:    :-O23:45
zenvoidwazd: that looks very good23:46
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* RST38h thought circle was rotation friendly =)23:46
wazdand I think it's not superhard to do that stuff since technicaly it's the same app menu23:47
wazdRST38h: it's 21 century, circle is retro :D23:47
RST38hyea, I prefer the pentagram too =)23:48
RST38hthat and one sacrifice a day...23:48
wazdNow we have title menu, handy task switcher, flexibility, finger friendliness, and not "oh my god how the hell we supposed to do this" layout :)23:49
wazdah, another con is that we've lost 1 app cathegory, but whatever)23:50
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zenvoidwazd: nobody would want to use diablo/fremantle after that :)23:51
Jaffawazd: so what are the icons down the left?23:51
wazdjaffa: totally random for now)23:52
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Jaffawazd: Icons at the top: task switcher; then current focused app's menu, then status bar. "mer" and the stuff under it? Although with the stuff highlighted at the bottom, it looks like another task navigator. So I'm confused. Pretty though :-)23:52
wazdJaffa: heart, globe, ing-yang, king's crown, tools and task switcher :D23:52
wazdJaffa on top: "Mer" (opened), quick switcher, app menu (title menu), applets23:53
zenvoidJaffa: I think it is the app launcher, but using icons instead of text categories23:53
wazdzenvoid: bingo :)23:54
ian_at_synthwazd: that mockup looks cool, you got skills :D i have to ask though: were you joking a while back when you said having disabled menu items be invisible (in the titan theme) was a feature, not a bug?23:54
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Jaffawazd: Always visible as in Maemo, or expands from 'mer' button wherever you are? (and then, the task nav bit of it is very separate from the mini-switcher)23:54
Stskeepsian_at_synth: i could probably produce people at my university supporting that point :>23:55
wazdJaffa: no, we got rid of side menu23:55
Jaffawazd: indeed, this just looks like it's back ;-)23:55
wazdJaffa: yep, whatever :D23:55
wazdian_at_synth: I wasn't joking :)23:55
JaffaI'm sure it'll become clearer to me when I sleep.23:55
StskeepsJaffa: i understand it as expanding from mer button23:56
wazdian_at_synth: But still I brought them back since it's too pov extravaganza :)23:56
zenvoidStskeeps: I also understand it as expanding, otherwise it would be just the left panel with a custom set of launchers ;-)23:57
Jaffazenvoid: indeed :)23:58
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ian_at_synthwazd: glad you came around on that23:59

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