IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2009-01-15

wazdI'm back00:00
*** lfelipe is now known as lfelipe[AWAY]00:03
*** aantn has quit IRC00:04
*** TrueJournals has quit IRC00:09
*** TrueJournals has joined #maemo00:09
Stskeepsb-man: <- use this code for guessing INT_CARD and EXT_CARD instead00:11
Stskeepsit gives output in form /dev/mmcblkX00:11
*** eichi has quit IRC00:11
qwerty12_N800I see my awk trick worked ;)00:11
*** Ryback_ has quit IRC00:11
Stskeepsand you just earned yourself nit-kernel-compat scripter job00:12
Stskeepsmr "i am not a good scripter"00:12
qwerty12_N800bollocks :p00:12
b-manStskeeps: ok, i'll add it to the installer.00:13
Stskeepsanyone with a N810 in the room? :P00:14
* b-man starts removing a bunch of stuff from merinstall.sh00:16
*** lfelipe[AWAY] is now known as lfelipe00:17
Stskeepsscary, i'm almost reacing as many thanks as i have posts00:18
wazdok, this guy agreed to help!)00:18
wazdHe will be here tommorow00:18
*** danilocesar has joined #maemo00:18
Stskeepsi'll be gone 10-15 or so00:19
Stskeepsmaybe on from tablet00:19
*** Ivan_Chelubeev has joined #maemo00:22
*** timemage has joined #maemo00:23
*** geaaru has quit IRC00:24
*** rsalveti has quit IRC00:24
*** BrentDC has joined #maemo00:26
*** gomiam has joined #maemo00:27
*** danilocesar has quit IRC00:28
*** hellwolf has joined #maemo00:29
* wazd thinks he came up with task switcher finally00:29
BrentDCI have a question for all the Linux Gurus among us: is there any way to see what the current draw on the battery is? I can get the current voltage via Matan's retu-adc program, but I also need to know current draw. Any way?00:30
wazdLinux Guru's definitely not me :)00:30
wazd~linux guru00:31
StskeepsBrentDC: install ftd00:32
BrentDClol. I'm trying to better gauge battery level (using Python & a little math), but the jumpy voltage reading isn't enough help00:32
Stskeepsi think you might be able to apt-get install ftd really00:32
qwerty12_N800it was removed.00:33
Stskeepsthat's silly00:33
*** etrunko has quit IRC00:34
qwerty12_N800it was only in the early leak of diablo, I happened to notice it when browsing in red pill mode... and then proceeded to make screenies...00:34
BrentDCGoogle isn't revealing much: is it in any of the repo's (chinook?)00:34
*** blade_runner has quit IRC00:34
*** fab has quit IRC00:34
*** birunko has quit IRC00:35
qwerty12_N800search for ftd and use dpkg to install00:35
qwerty12_N800you may have to resolve dependencies manually00:36
Stskeepsand the usual warning it may blow up your tablet or cause you horrible burns00:36
*** Ivan_Chelubeev has quit IRC00:36
BrentDCshould i install the plugin or the other one?00:37
BrentDCthanks, sts & qwerty00:37
qwerty12_N800if installed right: :)00:37
*** mk8 has quit IRC00:38
*** herzi has quit IRC00:39
*** StsN800 has joined #maemo00:40
*** hvelarde|busy has quit IRC00:44
disqwhich apps put themselves in init.d to launch at startup? i'll have to do something similar but don't want to test it a hundred times give me an example and i'll adapt it to my app00:45
*** MoRpHeUz has quit IRC00:46
*** skibur has joined #maemo00:49
StsN800hurray! the heat is back in my bedroom00:50
*** gnutonio has quit IRC00:50
*** zimmerle has quit IRC00:51
*** b-man has quit IRC00:52
*** lardman has joined #maemo00:53
*** Interocitor has joined #maemo00:54
BrentDCok, I got ftd installed: wow lots of information. But it raises a new question: ftd seems to basically be a frontend to there any way to access klogd's info via a CLI? (so i can poll and record the data).00:56
*** aloisiojr has quit IRC00:58
StsN800ftd also acceses bme00:59
*** Stslaptop has quit IRC00:59
StsN800which is not klogd00:59
BrentDCso any way to access that, too?00:59
wazdStsN800: possible to make it twice wider01:02
StsN800wazd, confused by the white window selection though01:03
StsN800not obvious it belongs to the two squares01:04
*** gomiam has quit IRC01:04
wazdStsN800: yep, that's the problem01:04
wazdStsN800: but principe is clear I think, this is just small design problem)01:05
TrueJournalsIs that actually what mer will look like? Or just a mockup?01:05
BrentDCjeez, I just had an "OMG, I must install Mer" moment01:06
*** matt_c has joined #maemo01:06
wazdStsN800: I think task switcher drop menu should be twice wider, for titles01:07
wazdStsN800: maybe it can be just standart maemo switcher btw01:07
wazdStsN800: just placed on top01:07
StsN800ui is a bit difficult touch wise isn't it?01:08
wazdStsN800: yep, I had to redraw simple hildon menu01:08
wazdStsN800: but as I said, maybe the best way would be to utilize maemo task switcher01:09
StsN800or do i have fat fingers;)01:09
StsN800looks great though:)01:09
StsN800hope you're having fun doing it01:10
wazdStsN800: and what do you think bout customizable number of apps/applets?01:10
*** greentux has quit IRC01:10
wazdStsN800: actually I'm a slave in south africa that makes it for water :)01:10
StsN800fair enough01:11
StsN800i raise your wage with a beer;)01:11
wazdStsN800: So I think it's pretty good to allow user to choose whether he needs more apps or more applets on top01:12
StsN800yeah, should ofcourse be a setting01:12
StsN800blog about it - good way to document your designs01:13
wazdand it's a good PR :)01:14
*** k-s[AWAY] is now known as k-s01:15
StsN800and especially cos my memory is lousy01:15
*** b-man has joined #maemo01:18
*** vivijim has quit IRC01:18
wazdStsN800: have you already revamped rescue menu?)01:22
*** benh has quit IRC01:24
*** StsN800 has quit IRC01:24
*** StsN800 has joined #maemo01:25
b-manStsN800: i'm haveing problems with scp; scp merinstaller_1.5.1-1_armel.deb
*** alextreme has quit IRC01:26
*** alextreme has joined #maemo01:26
b-manssh: Could not resolve hostname Name or service not known01:26
StsN800b-man, ping
*** juergbi has quit IRC01:29
StsN800wazd, stylus distance wise i would align left side of icon with left side of box01:30
*** matt_c has quit IRC01:30
b-manStsN800: what does this do?01:30
StsN800or finger wise, center align01:30
StsN800b-man, checks if your resolv.conf is messed01:31
*** drjnut has quit IRC01:32
wazdStsN800: what box exactly?)01:32
wazdStsN800: aw, got it01:32
wazdStsN800: Well, I'd prefer visual relation with top task switcher01:34
StsN800b-man, ip is otherwise01:34
wazdStsN800: If it would be at right - some misunderstanding with applets should appear01:35
*** fireun has joined #maemo01:35
StsN800my main gripe is i have to go / down instead of | :)01:36
*** ignacius has quit IRC01:36
StsN800to switch01:36
StsN800\ would be to close app but its | atm01:37
wazdStsN800: maybe place switcher icon in the beginning of the row01:37
StsN800also possible01:38
StsN800sleep time01:39
*** lizardo_ has joined #maemo01:40
b-manuploaded merinstaller_1.5.1-1;     sorce;
*** jpuderer has quit IRC01:43
*** lizardo_ has quit IRC01:43
*** simon_ has quit IRC01:44
*** benh has joined #maemo01:45
StsN800b-man, thanks01:47
StsN800with updated int_card stuff?01:48
*** BrentDC has quit IRC01:49
b-manyup :)01:50
StsN800k, will try later myself01:50
*** florian has quit IRC01:54
*** ttmrichter has joined #maemo01:54
*** lbt has quit IRC01:56
*** lardman has quit IRC01:59
*** Mousey has joined #maemo02:03
wazdStsN800: still here?)02:07
wazdStsN800: how bou that?
lcukwazd, before it gets ingrained in, you know the "r" in mer logo - it always feels like its 1-2pixels too far to the right.  have you tried bringing it in a tiny bit to see if it looks more balanced?02:11
*** fnordianslip_ has quit IRC02:11
wazdlcuk: yep, it's not :)02:15
wazdlcuk: that's the best position to my mind02:16
lcukwazd, im just wiggling it backwards and forwards in psp02:16
wazdlcuk: but maybe you're right, now I'm starting to think that it's really 1px right02:17
wazdlcuk: that sucks cause then I need to redraw rescue menu02:18
lcukheh - i know its all an optical illusion02:18
wazdlcuk: and kill you ofcourse :D02:18
lcukill get you a beer at the next summit :)02:18
wazdlcuk: If my country will pass me to it :)02:19
*** hellwolf has quit IRC02:19
wazdlcuk: what do you think bout UI layout then?02:19
wazd that one02:19
lcukyeah but ive thought it about all of them :P02:20
Jaffawazd: looks good. No stylus access to an app's menu?02:20
lcukwhere is the app title gonna go02:20
Jaffalcuk: nowhere - they're useless02:20
lcuki might have a dig into the hildon menu thing and see if i can get it to do that dynamic resizing thing02:21
Jaffawazd: presumably an app's menu would /appear/ in the same place as it does now? (i.e. instead of the apps menu)02:21
lcukisnt this gonna force us to remake and adjust hildon because of the shape it expects windows to sit in02:21
wazdJaffa: "Mer" is an app menu button for now)02:22
*** t_s_o has quit IRC02:22
wazdJaffa: maybe I should mark it same as Maemo one's02:22
lcuki liked the ae :)02:22
lcukit was generic enough to not look like a logo02:22
Jaffawazd: This is where the lack of clear nomenclature gets us. When I press the 'menu' key in that screenshot, I get File Manager's menu. The `mer' logo is equivalent to the application-launcher menu (I figure?)02:23
Jaffalcuk: no, shouldn't do. This is similar to the layout used in Ubuntu Mobile Edition.02:23
wazdJaffa: well I think "task switcher" button is symbolized pretty clear and same as Maemo :)02:23
Jaffawazd: yup, task switcher's great.02:24
lcukalright cool02:24
wazdMer's logo is hildon menu button02:24
wazdsame as if you'll click title02:24
lcukwhat are we gonna do when rotated?02:25
Jaffawazd: Ah, OK. And using a Home applet for app launching?02:25
wazdJaffa: Sort off, but I haven't thought bout that deeply02:26
lcukthats a minimum of 3 clicks if its on home menu to go from one app to a new one02:26
wazdJaffa: Maybe I'll come up with some more handy idea for quick app access02:26
wazdlcuk: well, now it's 2 clicks minimum :)02:27
lcukyeah, tis ok anyway was just the idea of needing to go home02:27
Jaffalcuk: change mer's home key behaviour to go directly to the home screen, rather than pop up the menu - since without the stuff on the left, full screen won't be so needed02:27
wazdJaffa: good point02:27
lcukhome does task switching02:28
lcuklong home already minimizes to desktop02:28
Jaffalcuk: yeah, but you've got the top bar for that now02:28
*** b-man has quit IRC02:28
Jaffalcuk: I'm suggesting swapping those two behaviours with this hildon-desktop02:28
wazdJaffa: well if you hold "home" you'll actually get home)02:29
JaffaAnyway, this is what Ubuntu Mobile's Hildon looks like:
Jaffawazd: In Maemo. With your suggested layout, I think that makes less sense (for the quickness of starting apps, as lcuk says)02:29
wazdJaffa: I like the idea of swaping functions02:30
wazdJaffa: quick click sends home02:30
lcukwow jaffa that looks really nice :)02:30
wazdJaffa: long click opens switcher02:30
lcukquick click should bring up the dynamic task switcher02:30
wazdlcuk: don't expect much from Ubuntu, homescreen is the only thing that looks nice in it :D02:31
wazdlcuk: other stuff is like worst themes of 770 :)02:32
Jaffalcuk: Not if you want quicker access to launch apps. Since the top bar will be more permanent (less need for full screen as no wasted sidebar), *and* it's got more space than the 3 active windows in Maemo's sidebar, having home key == home makes launching apps quicker.02:32
lcuki see they read your blog as well as microsoft :P02:32
Jaffawazd: other alternative is to do an Ubuntu: add a home icon, a menu icon and a task nav icon in the space of your current mer & task nav.02:32
JaffaThen it's a single tap to take you back to your app launcher/home screen.02:33
lcuki agree in part jaffa, but havign a title area for an app is important02:33
Jaffalcuk: liqbase doesn't have one ;-)02:33
lcuksure it does02:33
lcukevery single menu is titled :)02:33
JaffaWhat useful stuff has ever been shown in the title area of an app on Maemo? The only use they have IME is when switching between them, which is still maintained in wazd's mockup02:33
wazdJaffa: too much functional icons on the same place :)02:33
lcukwhen im in dynamic screens though i go fullscreen02:34
lcukjaffa, the title02:34
Jaffalcuk: What useful stuff is in *the title*?02:34
Jaffai.e. of the currently foregrounded app?02:34
wazdTitlebar is useless, forget bout it :)02:35
wazdIt does totaly nothing02:35
JaffaFor example, I've just opened File Manager, I see "File manager - Removable...". But I know it's the File Manager, cos it looks like it. And I know I've got the memory card selected as it's highlighted.02:35
lcuksometimes space is important02:35
wazdThat was the theme of my first blogpost02:35
Jaffawazd: Aye, and it convinced me you're often right ;-)02:36
lcukpeople read the headlines, sure a useless title is wasted02:36
* Jaffa beds.02:36
wazdlcuk: headlines contain text02:36
wazdlcuk: not something like "Web - Nokia Sta..."02:37
wazdlcuk: what's the point of that letters?)02:37
wazdlcuk: Titles are needed to define info without opened windows. And I have them in task switcher02:38
lcuk"The tray should be variable length. New applet - more tray. Applet is removed - application name can claim the space."  :) ideal compromise02:38
lcukyou will never make me agree its useless, and i will never try to force it upon you :)02:38
wazdlcuk: So tell me whats the point of "Web - Nokia Sta..."02:39
wazdlcuk: that compromise works if you have side menu :)02:39
lcuk<lcuk> people read the headlines, sure a useless title is wasted02:39
wazdlcuk: headlines are something like "Madonna divorses with Guy Richie!!111"02:40
lcuki meant the useless bit02:40
wazdlcuk: Not something like "Madonna div..."02:40
lcukits not up to the OS to dictate the format of the titlebars, it cannot guess good from bad (that example is bad)02:40
*** b-man has joined #maemo02:41
lcukremember, i would prefer a dynamically resizing titlebar which goes from almost nothing to much larger per preference02:41
lcukif you click on "madonna div.." it should slide out02:42
*** chmac has joined #maemo02:42
wazdlcuk: in newspaper?)02:42
lcukbut it gives a larger easy to hit area for the users finger to get at his app menu02:42
lcukheh yeah02:42
wazd"mer" button is more than large for a finger)02:42
lcukwhen the app menu itself isnt much different to the other menus the user will not know which to click02:42
wazdI've tried)02:42
lcuksuppose i give you the tablet, you've never used it before02:43
wazdlcuk: well, I've read the instruction when I bought n800 :)02:43
lcuktake it to the pub with you and let your friends play02:44
*** hellwolf-n810 has joined #maemo02:44
wazdlcuk: well, they already played, but they weren't anywhere outside of the browser :)02:44
wazdlcuk: I agree that maybe I should place same sign of menu like maemo has02:46
wazdlcuk: for easy location02:46
wazdlcuk: I also wanted to add some fingerfriendly feature02:47
wazdWhen user taps small icon in the taskswitcher a tip with it's title appears02:47
wazdAnd user can drag between apps if he missed02:48
wazdSwitch on release02:48
wazdsomething like iPhone keyboard as I remember02:48
lcuki know the effect, im just not sure its needed, are we expecting so many tasks it needs tiny icons?02:51
lcukthe icon + caption could be a regular easy fingerable size and still not need scrolling02:52
wazdlcuk: I'm talking bout top switcher02:52
wazdthat's next to "mer"02:52
lcukyeah i see it, still not sure, btw in the ubuntu, what happens when you click on the title area "All" does it drop a nice tree?02:57
*** Vulcanis has quit IRC02:57
wazdlcuk: dunno02:58
wazdlcuk: I've just seen screenshots02:58
lcuki might have to shove it on my x4102:58
lcukthough i really want mer on it :)  cannot stand ubuntu02:59
lcukanyway, gnite wazd :)03:01
wazdgnite lcuk)03:01
wazdbtw I don't see much sense in menu button to be finger friendly, since menu itself isnt :)03:02
*** Vulcanis has joined #maemo03:02
*** kcome has joined #maemo03:03
*** zimmerle has joined #maemo03:13
*** Sargun has quit IRC03:14
*** housetier_ has quit IRC03:20
*** pvanhoof has quit IRC03:21
*** dick-richardson has joined #maemo03:29
dick-richardsonkudos to the backup/restore devs - damn good job03:30
dick-richardsonmy n810 went through my snow blower and I just got the new one up and running in no time03:31
Mouseyya'll should check for the "coco de mer" fruit03:35
*** b-man has quit IRC03:36
wazdMousey: whoa!!03:39
wazdThat's hot)03:39
lcukhow in gods name did you come across that one03:39
lcukwe *HAVE* to have that as the desktop icon03:39
Mouseyi was looking for that mer wallpaper somebody linked yesterday03:39
Mouseyyah man03:39
Mouseytoo bad there's no cool coco program03:40
lcukill fuffin make one03:40
wazdThat one is pretty nice:
*** b-man has joined #maemo03:40
wazdDamn, thats uber hilarious)03:41
lcukhave you seen whats top of normal google search for that term03:41
Mouseyyay i contributed to mer!03:42
wazdWell, that's why I hate French :)03:43
wazdThey can ruin everything))03:43
wazdIt's still 1 thing to figure out03:44
wazdwhat was first, woman's ass or this nut :D03:45
wazdAnd what the hell nature was thinking about :)03:45
* b-man needs to beta test lates mer image - will be back03:47
*** soap has quit IRC03:47
*** b-man has quit IRC03:47
*** k-s is now known as k-s[AWAY]03:47
wazdNow Mer definitely takes first place in "Linux logo with women bodies" chart from Ubuntu :)03:47
Mouseyi am so proud! =D03:48
lcukyou could almost get away with it as the m from mer ;)03:48
wazdMousey: there is the wallpaper, if you still need it somehow)03:49
Mouseythanks =)03:49
Mouseyaw, doesn't have the logo in the middle03:49
*** soap has joined #maemo03:49
wazdlcuk: let's hide it as secret weapon)03:50
lcuknot to discuss again, but better to consider it plain then blendblit the required text/logo in the right place?03:50
lcukwrap it in bacon03:50
lcukanyway, im not here now03:50
lcukgnite again03:50
wazdThat would be a hit if cocoa would be somehow ported to linux))03:51
*** Shadow_M has joined #maemo03:52
wazdk, I'm out too, gnite all :)03:52
*** wazd has quit IRC03:52
*** dick-richardson has quit IRC03:54
*** b-man has joined #maemo03:59
b-mani'm back03:59
Shadow_Mwelcome back04:00
Shadow_Mso how do i get involved in the maemo community04:01
b-manfind a project that you like and jump in :D04:02
Shadow_Mah alright04:02
b-manbtw, i tryed out the new mer rescue menu, looks.............. amazing!04:03
Shadow_Mwhats that04:03
b-mana rescue menu to boot into/fix mer04:04
Shadow_Mwhat is mer04:04
b-manit looks taoaly different from the original, it even uses gnome fonting04:04
b-mana experimental os that is based on ubuntu jaunty that is designed to run maemo apps04:05
b-man"maemo reconstructed"04:06
Shadow_Mah interesting04:06
b-man provides most of the information - and possibly screenshots04:07
b-mani'm currently the maintainer of the installer :)04:07
Shadow_Mah nice04:07
*** Interocitor has quit IRC04:13
*** dougt has quit IRC04:13
*** Grackle has quit IRC04:13
*** zap has quit IRC04:14
b-man provides most of the technical information04:15
*** LopLiii has joined #maemo04:16
GeneralAntillesWhy do they always gotten ship prizes to the people who already have them. :(04:16
GeneralAntillesDamn you, thp! :P04:16
* b-man starts to apply yet another update to his ubuntu jaunty guide04:24
*** Grackle has joined #maemo04:27
*** mardi__ has joined #maemo04:31
*** rsalveti has joined #maemo04:34
*** xdx has joined #maemo04:39
*** Sargun has joined #maemo04:44
*** kimitake______ has quit IRC04:54
*** AFBN810 has joined #maemo04:56
*** chmac has quit IRC05:03
*** milhouse has quit IRC05:05
* b-man thinks about making a installer for Ubuntu Jaunty...05:07
b-manmake things 1000 times easier for everyone :)05:08
Shadow_Mwould the installer allow dual boot05:08
Shadow_Mor how would that work05:08
b-manyes, it would make a bootmenu item05:08
b-manand then automaticly reflash initfs for dual booting05:09
Shadow_Mhmm easy to revert back?05:10
b-manyou would have to flash with stock initfs, but it shuld not be too hard05:11
Shadow_Mhow do you flash with stock initfs05:12
b-manyou could use a computer or use initfs flasher05:13
b-man(for maemo)05:14
*** Vulcanis has quit IRC05:14
Shadow_Mor use a other bootmenu05:15
*** dougt has joined #maemo05:15
Shadow_Mi wouldnt mind trying ubuntu on here although i would think it woulld be slow05:17
b-mannot if you use plenty of swap ;)05:17
b-manand install preload and insserv05:18
Shadow_Mi think i went overboard on swap here05:19
Shadow_Mi gave it 384 megs05:19
b-mani've used 400 :)05:19
Shadow_Mhow much swap would it need and what does insserv do05:19
Shadow_Mi am running maemo now though05:19
b-maninsserv provides "parelel booting" - witch means that it orginizes startup scripts so the system boots faster.05:20
*** alecrim has quit IRC05:21
b-manand to make slower prosesses start later in the boot prosess05:21
b-man(comply with LSB)05:22
Shadow_Mah should i use that on my desktop05:22
Shadow_Mits a quad core05:22
b-manthat's cool :D05:23
Shadow_Myeah its a shuttle05:23
b-manhow many ghz does it clock at?05:23
Shadow_Mq6600 2.4ghz05:23
Shadow_M2 gigs of ram05:24
b-manpowerful graphics card?05:24
Shadow_Mnah not yet cant afford it 6600gt05:25
Shadow_Mwhat would you recommend to make it go faster05:26
b-manpreload or insserv05:26
Shadow_Mhmm i guess preload adds programs to ram right05:26
b-manyes... but over time it actually improves system performance by adjusting to your system automaticly05:27
Shadow_Mwhat module adds parallel processing so it proccesses more than one program at once while booting05:27
b-manit caches information about what programs you use05:29
b-manand preloads them at startup05:29
b-manso apps launch faster05:29
Shadow_Mhmm yeah05:29
Shadow_Misnt there something that takes advazntage of all those cores05:30
b-mannot shure.05:31
* b-man needs to go - but will be back ;)05:31
Shadow_Mah alright well thanks i am reading up on it05:32
Shadow_Msee ya05:32
*** skibur has quit IRC05:35
*** acydlord has joined #maemo05:35
*** disco_stu has quit IRC05:35
*** fireun has left #maemo05:38
*** madhav has joined #maemo05:42
*** b-man has quit IRC05:49
*** b-man has joined #maemo05:51
b-mani'm back again05:51
*** benh has quit IRC05:52
*** lfelipe is now known as lfelipe[AWAY]05:52
Shadow_Moh no05:54
*** Vulcanis has joined #maemo05:55
*** samd has joined #maemo06:01
samdhi, is there any built in function to send files by bluetooth, or i have to install an app?06:02
GeneralAntillessamd, File Manager06:03
*** pcfe` has joined #maemo06:04
b-mantap and hold, >send, >va bluetooth06:04
samdGeneralAntilles b-man ight found it, thanks :)06:05
*** pcfe has quit IRC06:11
*** pcfe` is now known as pcfe06:11
b-manGeneralAntilles: how is it down there Florida?, its about -2 (-14 with winchill) here in Ohio and we have over a foot of snow on the ground with more comming :p06:14
GeneralAntillesNo snow, but it's supposed to be down into the single digits in a few days. :((06:15
GeneralAntillesI'm in the north end at the moment, though.06:15
soapa foot?  You must be north of me.06:15
b-manin Bowiling Green Ohio06:15
b-manah :D06:16
* Mousey drives traffic into the channel06:17
b-manGeneralAntilles: single digits in northern florida?!?06:18
GeneralAntillesb-man, yeah, Tallahassee.06:18
GeneralAntillesNormally we see maybe high teens once or twice a year.06:18
GeneralAntillesQuite a cold snap.06:18
soapWhen I left Houston Sunday it was getting awfully chilly.06:18
b-manthe high here is only going to be 12 here tomorrow, and maybe 6 (with an actual low of -12) on Friday :p06:21
soapditto.  Should have stayed in Guam.06:22
* b-man wants to live in California or southern Florida XD06:22
b-manbesides, most of my family lives in california and florida :)06:23
*** timemage has quit IRC06:25
*** skibur has joined #maemo06:26
*** b-man has quit IRC06:34
Mousey<Gareth> hm. this is weird.    i can't connect to my wireless G network....cant put all the characters for the WPA key in there.06:37
Mousey<Gareth> this is on the N81006:37
Mousey<Mousey> is it taking it and just doesn't look like it?06:37
*** Gareth has joined #maemo06:37
Mousey<Gareth> Mousey: No, I can't enter the key...I cant enter the whole character short.06:37
Mouseyoh hai!06:37
*** Brains has joined #maemo06:39
*** philipl has quit IRC06:40
Mouseyah ha!!06:40
*** Grackle has quit IRC06:41
*** philipl has joined #maemo06:42
GarethMousey: ah ha06:43
Mouseyi told u they were helpful here ^_^06:43
*** Grackle has joined #maemo06:43
*** efleury has quit IRC06:46
*** efleury has joined #maemo06:47
GarethMousey: haha thanks06:49
*** skibur has joined #maemo06:50
*** rwhitby has quit IRC06:53
*** samd has quit IRC06:53
*** rwhitby has joined #maemo06:56
*** jeez__ has quit IRC07:01
*** efleury has quit IRC07:02
*** ciroip has quit IRC07:02
*** efleury has joined #maemo07:03
*** jeez__ has joined #maemo07:03
*** bergie has joined #maemo07:15
*** skibur has quit IRC07:19
*** bergie has quit IRC07:25
*** kimitake______ has joined #maemo07:27
*** konttori has quit IRC07:32
*** dougt_ has joined #maemo07:36
*** dougt has quit IRC07:36
*** benh has joined #maemo07:39
*** kenneth has quit IRC07:50
*** jeez__ has quit IRC07:50
*** kenneth has joined #maemo07:50
*** kimitake_______ has joined #maemo07:51
*** jeez__ has joined #maemo07:51
*** greentux has joined #maemo07:52
*** bergie_ has joined #maemo07:57
*** bergie_ has quit IRC08:05
*** kimitake______ has quit IRC08:07
*** riot has quit IRC08:17
*** rwhitby has quit IRC08:20
*** riot has joined #maemo08:21
*** benh has quit IRC08:22
*** rwhitby has joined #maemo08:22
*** eichi has joined #maemo08:22
*** greentux has quit IRC08:27
*** punkass has quit IRC08:29
*** bef0rd has joined #maemo08:31
*** konttori has joined #maemo08:31
*** punkass has joined #maemo08:32
*** geaaru has joined #maemo08:39
*** kimitake________ has joined #maemo08:39
*** bef0rd has quit IRC08:46
*** konttori has quit IRC08:47
*** eichi has quit IRC08:49
johnxRST38h, newsflash: dumb people are dumb. the register is a troll. story at 11.08:51
*** yigal has joined #maemo08:53
*** dougt has joined #maemo08:54
*** dougt_ has quit IRC08:54
yigalfor 3 days without anything but an n800, it's growing on me08:54
*** LopLiii has quit IRC08:54
johnxyigal, yeah, I was in the same situation a while ago08:55
johnxit's not bad for lightweight stuff08:55
*** kimitake_______ has quit IRC08:57
Navipeople are indeed morons08:57
yigalI'm getting an iGo and am entering a doctoral program in physics I wan't to see if I can write 80% of my thesis on it :)08:58
johnxRST38h, if you've ever seen the dell site, you have to *really work at it* to end up buying an ubuntu laptop for exactly the reason outlined in the story. Also worth considering: could you do s/Ubuntu/Mac/ and end up with the same result for that lady?08:58
johnxhey Navi. what have you been up to?08:59
johnxyigal, a little optimistic, but should be possible. just remember to back it up and don't trust your SD cards :)08:59
yigalis there some odd dell promo?08:59
johnxyigal, they sell ubuntu on laptops as officially supported09:00
yigalmercurial remote server + external flash09:00
Navijohnx: nuffin' much09:00
NaviI've been up to a lot less then I've wanted to be up to09:01
NaviSilly Dell09:02
NaviInspiron Mini 909:02
*** simboss has joined #maemo09:02
johnxheh, Stskeeps and I are still working on Mer. :) It's getting to the point soon when we can start working on just packaging apps for it09:02
NaviMore Storage! Includes Windows XP!09:02
johnxbeen under a rock? :P09:02
NaviI haven't kept up with itT09:02
johnxthe Hildon (aka Maemo) UI on top of Ubuntu ARM09:02
Navior however that acronym is cased09:02
infobotfrom memory, mer is and
johnxexcept not hacked up like my debian thing09:03
NaviOh, that's cool09:03
NaviI guess09:03
johnxruns on n800, zaurus and x86 so far09:03
NaviOh, that thing09:03
NaviI didn't know it was given a name09:03
yigalwho would do that to themselves, sorry devs I guess interesting, windows?09:03
NaviDo what to themselves?09:04
johnxit was re-maemo for a while, but we didn't want another discussion about what the name should be09:04
*** guardian has quit IRC09:04
NaviThat reminds me of this one OSS software dealie09:04
NaviThey spent all of December electing representatives, rather than actively develop on the project09:05
Naviand they missed the date that they announced for a release09:05
yigalis phonelink actively being worked on?09:06
johnxwell, luckily the people who like hacking on Mer and the people who like pointless arguments tend to be pretty mutually exclusive09:06
NaviExcept GeneralAntilles09:06
johnxhe's our ... uhm ... PR rep :D09:06
NaviAh, so he has to speak the language to get the message across09:07
NaviI see09:07
yigalI feel this as the dev channel :)09:07
*** Dar has joined #maemo09:07
NaviThe last release of phonelink was a while ago09:08
GeneralAntillesNavi, the "language" is a frozen trout that I beat people about the head and shoulders with. :P09:08
johnxyigal, it's fine to ask here, but I don't know anything about phonelink :)09:08
NaviMaemo's svn browser blows09:08
johnxwe do the good cop, bad cop thing. GA hits people with a frozen trout (or carp as the situation requires), then wazd shows them gorgeous mockups and wallpapers:
GeneralAntillesNavi, you try WebKit?09:09
yigalfare, I'm dealing with a beast of an evil creature called blackberry09:09
NaviGeneralAntilles: on the desktop, yes09:09
* GeneralAntilles beats Navi about the head and shoulders with a frozen trout.09:09
NaviDoesn't show the last update dates on the svn browser09:10
NaviOh, we're back to the EAL thing?09:10
GeneralAntillesInertial scrolling09:10
GeneralAntillesWell, there's also Tear09:10
GeneralAntillesbut that's marginally less stable.09:10
johnxGeneralAntilles, had some updates recently. did you try the latest version?09:10
GeneralAntillesjohnx, Tear? No.09:10
NaviTear as in, this software is sad?09:10
GeneralAntillesSomething like that.09:11
Navior Tear as in, this screen tears a lot.09:11
johnxI think so. that's the icon09:11
NaviEither will work, but one is funnier09:11
johnxlatest SSU fixed a lot of screen tearing issues09:11
yigalfor an end user is fennec something to consider?09:11
johnxbut before that, yes it could scroll fast enough to cause screen tearing09:11
Naviyigal: nah09:11
johnxyigal, not yet09:11
GeneralAntillesyigal, give it a couple more months.09:11
johnxor give it a new CPU :)09:11
NaviMy tablet hasn't been turned on in a while09:12
yigalok, I'm not unhappy with/09:12
GeneralAntillesI wish these people would get their stuff into Extras so I'd didn't have to pay attention for updates.09:12
NaviGeneralAntilles: dude09:12
NaviDid you not know that the concept of a centralized repository is dumb?09:12
NaviI mean, that just saps all the work you have to do to keep things updated09:13
NaviNo fun at all09:13
GeneralAntillesYou enjoy self-flagulation, don't you?09:13
johnxGeneralAntilles, ever tried to build a browser in diablo scratchbox?09:13
NaviGeneralAntilles: I am very masochistic09:13
GeneralAntillesjohnx, nope, but I love telling other people they should. :P09:13
NaviThankfully, he's stopped bugging me \o/09:13
johnxanyways, that's the other big thing about Mer. Stskeeps has done insane amounts of work to get us a scratchbox based SDK with recent compilers and recent versions of libraries, that mostly match up to ubuntu09:14
GeneralAntillesjohnx, did you catch: ?09:14
Navijohnx: sexy09:15
yigaldo any of you devs actually use modest for mail?09:15
Naviyigal: not all of us are devs09:15
Navisome of us are just here to troll and spam09:15
johnxyigal, yes. with gmail imap. but I'm not really a dev so much as a sys admin who got lost09:15
yigalwanna be ;)09:15
NaviI use Modest a lot09:15
Naviwell, on the go09:16
*** kcome has quit IRC09:16
yigaljohnx: same with me and imap gmail, just wondering09:16
Naviwhich reminds me, any suggestions for a good data-only plan that won't burn a hole in my pocket?09:16
johnxNavi, move to Baltimore, MD and pick up a wimax n810 before they disappear09:17
yigalat&t 60$/month ;P09:17
GeneralAntillesYeah, I use Modest a lot with Gmail IMAP09:17
Navijohnx: why?09:17
johnxNavi, they're end-of-lifed09:17
GeneralAntillesNavi, it's $30/mo for a PDA-plan that'd go with something like an RX-5109:17
johnxGeneralAntilles, really think they'll let the rx-51 have a PDA plan and not make it use a usb adapter plan?09:18
GeneralAntillesjohnx, I dunno.09:18
GeneralAntillesI have zero experience with their data-only stuff.09:18
GeneralAntillesIf not, I'm going to be a little pissed, though. ;)09:18
yigalno bt that would be bad09:18
Navijohnx: that was pretty fast09:18
GeneralAntillesWhat do they charge for UMPCs with 3G modems?09:19
GeneralAntillesyigal, no BT in?09:19
Naviover 1k?09:19
NaviUMPCs are too damned expensive09:19
johnxNavi, well, the mobile wimax kit is only rolled out in Baltimore. they delayed their DC rollout and the Portland network somehow doesn't work quite right with the n810we apparently (?)09:19
GeneralAntillesNavi, er, what does AT&T charge for a data-only plan for them. ;)09:19
yigalGeneralAntilles: tethering options for data plans09:20
NaviGeneralAntilles: ah09:20
Navi60/mo or so?09:20
GeneralAntillesyigal, with AT&T you can usually tether with the non-tethering plans.09:20
GeneralAntillesNavi, my assumption was that you could use the non-tethering PDA personal plan for $30/mo.09:20
NaviThey hit you with a large bill if they find out, though09:20
NaviTheir detection methods are pretty weak though09:20
yigalGeneralAntilles: i have tmo with a phone that won't tether + data plan so i'm on the look out for something good09:21
GeneralAntillesI've been fine tethering for the past 2 years09:21
Navijohnx: How much are they selling it for?09:21
GeneralAntilles$20/mo MediaMAX 20009:22
NaviGeneralAntilles: they usually don't find out09:22
Navior care09:22
yigalrediculous, who should care09:22
johnxI've seen n810wes for around $350 - $400, but as part of Nokia's EOL, retailers are supposed to ship them back to Nokia for a refund09:22
NaviIs the PDA personal AT&T plan unlimited data?09:23
NaviLuls, the tethering plan is double the price with a 5GB limit09:23
Naviand .00048 US cents per KB09:23
Naviover the limit09:23
*** kcome has joined #maemo09:23
GeneralAntillesYeah, unlimited.09:23
GeneralAntillesTethering plans are ridiculous.09:23
yigalthe only real plan is 5g09:24
Navi3G coverage?09:24
johnxGeneralAntilles, that survey generally tells me that in both camps the people interviewed were a little confused09:24
*** zommi has joined #maemo09:24
NaviI need a new phone for 3G09:24
NaviNokia needs to come out with a new E7009:25
NaviScrew the N97s09:25
yigaliphone :)09:25
GeneralAntillesjohnx, hehe.09:27
yigalah a little radiohead to lighten my day09:27
roopeThe E71 is a very nice phone indeed.09:27
Navijohnx: the WEs are too black for me09:27
NaviI hate black09:27
roopeBack At The Mother Ship (tm), you see them everywhere.09:27
Navijohnx: actually, I don't have the $$$ for them :(09:28
johnxNavi, eh, save it for the next tablet anyways, or buy the new Palm thing when it comes out09:28
NaviThe Pre?09:29
NaviWe were discussing it earlier in the cool people channel09:29
yigalbefore my time09:29
NaviPeople should give up the webapps on a phone angle for now09:29
Navinative apps plz09:30
johnxbasically, even if it's just a dumbphone and something to tether my n800 to I'll be happy with it09:30
johnxi dunno, Palm has actually sold me on the idea, and the devs don't seem to hate it too much09:30
roopeI also think it's a very cool idea.09:31
yigaljohnx: don't get a cheap tether, unless you don't use a cell09:31
roopeLarge offline native apps are dying out.09:31
Navithe iPhone tried it and failed09:31
roopeIt takes too long to build and maintain. When the app is done, it's too old already.09:31
roope(well, not always, but often)09:31
*** eton_ has quit IRC09:32
johnxNavi, the iphone did webapps. Palm is doing apps in html/js that actually can call system APIs09:32
yigalon a closed platform i would imagine offline apps could suffer09:32
roopeafaik the palm 3rd party apps can do pretty much the same as the system apps.09:32
johnxapparently all the 1st party stuff in their demos was html/js09:32
NaviAt least the Pre can multitask09:32
roopeIt's just using html/css/javascript + some kind of graphical toolkit on top (for the transitions etc.)09:33
Naviunlike the currently most popular touch phone at this moment09:33
*** kimitake_______0 has joined #maemo09:33
*** dougt has quit IRC09:33
*** dougt has joined #maemo09:34
yigali can do that js/php/html/css stuff i want something i can't do09:34
NaviHow about develop a good application?09:35
*** Wikier has joined #maemo09:36
yigalit's all about particle physics for me, where's the time09:36
*** GeneralAntilles has quit IRC09:37
*** GeneralAntilles has joined #maemo09:37
yigalo i was worried i had made the general leave09:39
StsN800fuck mornings. there, i said it. who gets up before its bright outside?09:39
yigalno hand raising here09:39
johnxStsN800, does it count if I got to sleep after it's bright outside and wakeup in the dark?09:40
*** sisto has quit IRC09:40
StsN800thats fine. just slept exceptionally bad :)09:41
yigaljohnx: that's burly09:41
*** rmoravcik has joined #maemo09:41
GeneralAntillesyigal, client being crappy.09:42
*** sisto has joined #maemo09:43
*** Meiz_n810 has joined #maemo09:43
yigal that is funny09:43
johnxGeneralAntilles, aaah, I see what you were getting at with the survey I think: more programmer-hours per capita going into openmoko?09:43
Meiz_n810vlc is available for jaunty :P09:44
Meiz_n810but still no mplayer :(09:44
GeneralAntillesjohnx, I hadn't really drawn any conclusions.09:44
yigalGeneralAntilles: I hope you're a bit better situated now09:44
*** juergbi has joined #maemo09:44
johnxGeneralAntilles, well, kinda fits with what I've been saying about attracting motivated people09:45
NaviUbuntu 15.04 should be called Penetrating Penis09:46
NaviThat would be luls09:47
* Navi snickers09:47
Navijohnx: needs more hype09:47
*** kimitake________ has quit IRC09:47
*** kimitake_______1 has joined #maemo09:47
johnxNavi, exactly, but needs more hype targeted at developers09:48
GeneralAntillesjohnx, I think Fremantle and the RX-51 will help a lot.09:48
GeneralAntillesIt's tough to attract people to a platform that's mostly been stagnant for the last year.09:48
Navijohnx: any hype will do, really09:48
Naviuser hype can help the base grow, which may catch they eyes of unrelated developers09:49
johnxNavi, that's true to a certain extent, but I think boosting the dev/user ratio would be a good thing. It makes the community "feel" more productive09:49
johnxI guess I should say "involved people/uninvolved people ratio"09:50
NaviToo bad the tablet community isn't like the GP2X community09:50
johnxhaha! now you're catching my evil plan :D09:50
NaviI wouldn't compare to openmoko09:50
Navitoo unproductive09:50
johnxwell, that too we'll have to work on :)09:50
yigalnot like i'm using it much but the default player is giving me the following error "unable to perform operation. try again". any ideas? I use it for long bike rides, I just add my music collection, but now it doesnt work, although, a little find + mplayer does roughly the smae thing09:51
johnxNavi, Mer has two goals: brining up-to-date libs and a sane base for Maemo on the n8x0, and bringing the hildon UI to anything that can run ubuntu09:51
Naviyou can use Canola, or something09:51
Stskeepsphew, qgil said maemo 5 would have xterm09:51
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, was there ever any doubt?09:51
Stskeepsimagine the firestorm otherwise09:51
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: you never know09:52
Navijohnx: well, honestly, I don't like the current UI, but ze future UI might be good09:52
yigalya, need the 8gb+ card soon in my possesion09:52
Naviat least the libs and shtick are there09:52
johnxNavi, yeah, the current UI isn't great, just better than anything else09:52
Stskeepsjohnx: saw wazds mockups last night btw?09:52
johnxStskeeps, yup :)09:53
yigali want xterm with mouse url support09:53
johnxStskeeps, I saw the first one, was there more?09:53
Stskeepsjohnx: various vers09:53
* johnx digs through logs09:54
GeneralAntillesyigal, tap'n'hold?09:54
*** simboss has quit IRC09:54
*** StsN800 has quit IRC09:55
johnxliking this one best I think:
yigalGeneralAntilles: nice :)09:56
*** dougt has quit IRC09:56
GeneralAntillesjohnx, I always thought horizontal space was more important than vertical09:57
*** dougt has joined #maemo09:57
johnxhence the top bar09:57
GeneralAntillesjohnx, how easy are the layouts to edit?09:57
johnxor did you mean that the other way around?09:57
* johnx sighs09:57
GeneralAntilleser, yeah, the top bar is good.09:57
johnxkind of a PITA to line everything up perfectly09:57
GeneralAntillesIf only it were as easy as having wazd do a mockup. ;)09:58
*** kimitake_______2 has joined #maemo09:59
johnxwell, even a non-programmer could do it, as long as they had patience and artistic sense (and basic math)09:59
*** pupnik_ has quit IRC09:59
johnxthe matchbox part is an xml file and then the layout itself is in .osso/hildon-desktop/desktop.conf09:59
GeneralAntillesWhich reminds me of an old game whose level editor was ClariWorks.09:59
johnxI wrote a zelda clone that used vi or notepad for an editor09:59
*** simboss has joined #maemo10:00
johnxwant an enemy? type x10:00
*** bobl1k has joined #maemo10:00
johnxthe other part of a layout is of course redrawing all the affected .pngs10:00
GeneralAntillesWell, that, at least, we can make wazd do.10:01
*** kimitake_______0 has quit IRC10:01
johnxand you can't use theme maker if you're changing the layout10:01
GeneralAntillesI'd like to wait and see what Fremantle looks like.10:01
GeneralAntillesI have a suspicion that it may already address these issues.10:01
johnxMy suspicion is that the new launcher is the most likely place to use clutter10:02
*** pupnik has joined #maemo10:02
GeneralAntillesLikely, but we can lift the layout anyway.10:02
RST38hor deprecate them by using a completely different ui10:02
SaBer_Anyone familiar with Qt on Maemo? I'm having a sql plugin problem:
johnxRST38h, doesn't really matter. They're keeping libhildon and it seems like they're keeping largely API compatible (though I'd love to see that confirmed)10:03
yigalnight, i thank you for your work, now a goodbye for now to all10:03
johnx'night yigal10:03
*** yigal has left #maemo10:03
johnxThe one thing I can think of is that I assume Maemo 5 will have rotation support so we might need a mockup for a 480x800 layout as well. That presents some interesting challenges...10:07
johnxanyways, I'm off to work, maybe I'll try and draw a crappy sketch of it on the train :)10:11
NaviHullo, X-Fade10:12
*** Meiz_n810 has quit IRC10:12
johnxNavi, yup, the train:
NaviHow are you doing tonight?10:12
* X-Fade wonders what will happen with Jaiku once Google opensources it..10:13
*** xdx has quit IRC10:14
aquatixmorning all10:14
*** kimitake_______1 has quit IRC10:15
StskeepsX-Fade: a lot of spread jaiku like systems10:22
StskeepsX-Fade: and i think there should be or something ;)10:23
johnxStskeeps++ :D10:23
X-FadeStskeeps: As long as they are able to sync with each other.10:24
StskeepsX-Fade: yeah.. and that could potentially be a lot of traffic10:24
X-FadeFor some things it is nice to have one central point where everybody can be found.10:24
Stskeepson the other hand, it would be more sane than IRC.10:24
johnxirc<->jaiku gateway?10:25
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, did you see?
*** Meiz_n810 has joined #maemo10:25
* Stskeeps still isn't sure of openid really10:25
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Yeah, we've discussed that.10:25
X-FadeBut openid is really poor.10:25
NaviOpenID blows10:26
X-FadeIt has all kinds of security implications and doesn't do account federation.10:26
StskeepsMeiz_n810: do you have time to test b-man's new installer later today? we fixed the external/internal card problematique10:26
NaviNeeds moar transparency10:26
*** mk8 has joined #maemo10:26
GeneralAntillesAh, good to know, then.10:26
Naviand less headache inducing backend libs10:26
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: FWIW, we are discussing a central ldap for all maemo services. But no outside accounts for now..10:27
StskeepsX-Fade: maybe act as a openid provider to satisfy those who want to make sites authing up towards
X-FadeStskeeps: That is an easier solution. But still, if you really look into openid.. it has problems.10:29
Stskeepsyeah, i know10:29
*** eocanha has joined #maemo10:30
X-FadeI like the 'one account for all' idea.10:30
X-FadeBut it has to be done right ;)10:30
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: ok, thanks, i'll try it soon10:31
Stskeepsbugzilla & account seperation definately is a problem :P10:31
X-FadeAnd every service we use should have support for it. (eg. midgard, gforge, bugzilla, ssh, svn, git, mailman etc etc.)10:32
monkeyiqAnd now to infect the rest of maemo with wiimote goodness!
*** ab has joined #maemo10:32
*** sergio has joined #maemo10:32
X-FadeBugzilla has ldap support, so that could be an option.10:32
GeneralAntillesmonkeyiq, why not move your stuff to Extras?10:32
X-FadeAlthough we need to update bugzilla first. And andre___ is feeling the pain ;)10:33
monkeyiqGeneralAntilles; I've been considering it for a while... I'll probably push some stuff over at some stage.10:33
monkeyiqGeneralAntilles; once I get past the initial package in extras... but currently I just build in sbox and rsync to the uni which is quick & nasty10:34
*** calvaris has joined #maemo10:38
monkeyiqGeneralAntilles; oh yeah, plus a few of the packages in my repo are simply recompiles poached from the debian srcs, so I'm not sure of the politics if I put those ones into extras. If its just my personal repo then thats another matter.10:38
GeneralAntillesThere are no politics.10:38
`Maceboston legal cracks me up10:39
`Maceit's no wonder it did better than the practice10:39
GeneralAntilles`Mace, ever watch 30 Rock?10:39
`Mace30 rock?10:39
GeneralAntillesWell nevermind then. ;)10:40
GeneralAntillesI recommend it, though. :P10:40
GeneralAntillesWell, one of the character's in 30 Rock says "I watched 8 episodes of Boston Legal before I realized it wasn't a new Star Trek." So . . . . ;)10:42
Stskeeps <- interesting10:42
`Macewilliam shatner is awesome10:42
Stskeepswasn't 7of9 in there too? :P10:43
`Macehe did shed the whole captain kirk thing10:43
`Maceprobably in an episode10:43
`Macewasn't 7 of 9 in another show?10:43
*** Meiz_n810 has quit IRC10:43
`Maceshe was hot in star trek10:44
`Macenot so hot in real life :)10:44
Stskeepspeople get old..10:44
`Macei think it was the ass lifting breast lifting skin tight uniform10:44
Stskeepsi'm really happy with my fiancée's looks, even if she's 3 years older than me, she doesn't look like a train wreck like most people i grew up did already at 2010:45
`Maceand the eye implant piece that kinda looked like a tattoo10:45
`Maceheh.. my gf is 28.. she's still hot10:45
Stskeeps27yo here10:45
StskeepsX-Fade: btw, what determined linkedness between a iTT account and a account?10:47
Stskeepsdetermines, that is10:47
X-FadeStskeeps: You can fill that in at account settings.10:47
X-FadeStskeeps: In your account.10:48
Stskeepsso it pulls karma and such from there as well10:48
X-FadeManual pointer..10:48
X-FadeSo point to GA's account ;)10:48
X-Fadeinsta-karma[tm] ;)10:48
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: , comment 9 - i'm willing to bet there's more people like that laying about10:49
*** TheJere has quit IRC10:51
`Macespader plays a good role too10:52
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, :P10:53
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, nice looking theme.10:54
Stskeepsyeah - theme is good, but also interesting what he says from a technical point of view :) hope we'll see him around today10:54
X-FadeYeah, that theme looks clean.10:54
Stskeepshaving more people insane enough to dive into scratchbox and such, is a good asset10:55
X-FadeYeah, you need to get people like that on board.10:57
*** StsN800 has joined #maemo10:58
*** kontio has joined #maemo10:59
*** cjdavis1 has quit IRC11:00
*** Stskeeps has quit IRC11:00
*** monkeywraith has quit IRC11:00
*** herwood_ has quit IRC11:00
*** nomis has quit IRC11:00
*** ENTERANICK has quit IRC11:00
*** sneakret has quit IRC11:00
*** nslu2-log has quit IRC11:00
*** infobot has quit IRC11:00
*** herwood has joined #maemo11:00
*** nomis has joined #maemo11:00
*** Stskeeps has joined #maemo11:00
*** sneakret has joined #maemo11:00
*** nslu2-log has joined #maemo11:00
*** cjdavis1 has joined #maemo11:00
*** monkeywraith has joined #maemo11:01
*** dneary has joined #maemo11:01
*** mxttie has joined #maemo11:01
*** IRSeekBot has quit IRC11:02
*** pvanhoof has joined #maemo11:03
*** kimitake_______2 has quit IRC11:04
*** herzi has joined #maemo11:06
*** Mousey has quit IRC11:08
*** gomiam has joined #maemo11:10
*** AD-N770 has joined #maemo11:11
*** hannesw_ has joined #maemo11:13
*** fr01b has left #maemo11:13
*** pupnik_ has joined #maemo11:16
*** kevinverma has joined #Maemo11:18
*** kontio has quit IRC11:23
*** hellwolf-n810 has quit IRC11:26
*** lbt has joined #maemo11:31
*** StsN800 has quit IRC11:33
*** pupnik has quit IRC11:34
*** ssvb has joined #maemo11:34
*** fab has joined #maemo11:35
JaffaGeneralAntilles: I'm not sure the Fremantle layout will help non-Clutter based implementations.11:37
JaffaAnd it'd be good for mer to have a differentiation11:37
*** frade has joined #maemo11:37
*** greentux has joined #maemo11:40
*** tbf has joined #maemo11:40
*** madha1 has joined #maemo11:41
*** Shadow_M has quit IRC11:43
*** mgedmin has joined #maemo11:44
kyndeabout the ke-recv and it's "unable to connect, no file system found" for any USB device when in host mode... I was only able to find the 3.2 sources for the maemo 5.0, which doesn't quite work in diablo. is the diablo version, 2.28, available somewhere?11:45
*** benh has joined #maemo11:45
X-FadeJaffa: It seems that at least some of the Clutter use is in matchbox.11:46
kyndefor the record, I got the popup "fixed", but there were other issues with the new version. it relies on some features not apparently yet in diablo.11:46
*** alterego has joined #maemo11:47
*** zap has joined #maemo11:48
*** ssvb has quit IRC11:48
*** florian_kc has joined #maemo11:50
*** florian_kc is now known as florian11:51
*** StsN800 has joined #maemo11:53
*** hellwolf has joined #maemo11:54
*** pupnik_ is now known as pupnik11:54
*** Khertan has joined #maemo11:55
KhertanHello !11:55
*** borism has joined #maemo11:57
*** madhav has quit IRC11:58
Khertanhop hop ... mNotes 0.2.2 pushed to the builder11:59
*** borism_ has quit IRC12:03
KhertanSomeone can explain me while everybody want qt on their nit ?12:09
Khertana personnal preferences of coder because they know it or use it ?12:09
Stskeepsless suck than gtk12:09
glassit's hip12:09
*** t_s_o has joined #maemo12:10
RST38hit os for abi breaks!12:10
RST38hthey are sooo exciting12:10
Khertanos for abi breaks ?12:11
RST38hQt is a C++ librar12:12
Khertanand ? it s just a language ...12:13
RST38hIt has got virtual functions and objects12:13
RST38hYes, but imagine that you have been using Qt n.0 where an object had a size of x bytes12:13
RST38hYou copied these objects, compared them, stored them, etc12:13
RST38hNo, Qt n+1.0 is released and it adds an extra virtual function or a data member to your object so now it has a size of n+4 bytes12:14
RST38hIf you try running your binary with the new library, it will crash12:14
RST38hThat is one of the fundamental problems with C++ APIs which makes some people absolutely hate them (see GTK/Glib people for example)12:15
Khertanthis is a real problem, right12:15
Khertanso gtk 1 - 0 qt ...12:16
Khertanand why many still want to use qt ?12:16
Khertani ask because i see that maemo will be in feature available with qt and gtk12:17
*** greentux has quit IRC12:17
Khertanand from my point of view ... a python developper, i don't see any things that could made leave pygtk for pyqt12:18
Khertans/made/make me12:18
RST38hqt is way cleaner than gtk12:19
kyndestoring/copying/whatnot C++ classes as such with virtual functions is a bad idea to begin with. not hardly a flaw in qt or even in C++ just bad coding practice.12:20
RST38hpython is different12:20
Khertanyep :)12:20
*** zap has quit IRC12:20
RST38hkynde: why?12:20
*** _berto_ has joined #maemo12:20
RST38hkynde: pointers do not change during your app lifecycle12:20
*** StsN801 has joined #maemo12:21
*** StsN800 has quit IRC12:22
kyndegranted it works within an app, but if we're talking abi it's obvious that things break if you meddle with virtual functions. I read your complaint a bit wrong. and yes, ofcourse when qt makes a +1.0 release change and change their virtual functions the abi breaks. granted.12:25
kyndebut is that so different when C libraries change their structs/functions in such a way that the abi breaks? there's usually far less need to do so, but still.12:26
*** booiiing has quit IRC12:30
RST38hkynde: I guess C makes it way more obvious12:32
RST38hkynde: it is the opposite side of encapsulation12:32
RST38hif things are all encapsulated, you pay way less attention to what goes on inside that capsule12:32
*** booiiing has joined #maemo12:40
kyndetrue. C++ makes library ABIs too often a bit problematic.12:41
* timelyx shrugs12:43
timelyxQt has some advantages over Gtk12:44
timelyxGtk has some advantages over Maemo Gtk (like none of the maemo API/ABI breaks!)12:44
timelyxyou can easily screw up Gtk (and we have)12:44
timelyxw/ C++, you can and should write serialization things if you need them and iirc Qt offers some of that stuff12:45
timelyxso if you really care about reading objects from a disk, you can12:45
*** lardman|gone is now known as lardman12:45
timelyx(otoh, i filed a bug about the Qt IDE crashing on certain XML input, i don't think it's fixed yet)12:45
timelyxbtw, Gtk also has api breaks, Gtk1=>Gtk212:45
Khertantimelyx: do you know a site / page / mailing list where there is a real discussion on advantage of using qt or gtk ?12:47
Khertani don't found anythings than nice troll12:47
timelyxum, not offhand12:48
timelyxi think there are some writeups by Linus12:48
Juhazno, there aren't. Linus has never commented on gui toolkits, he did write about gnome vs kde, but that was about philosophy, not code.12:49
timelyxfwiw, I personally dislike Gtk -- Qt is cleaner. But i dislike Qt because its OOM handling is also broken. For Maemo, if at day 0, I could have picked Qt instead of GTK, I would have. However, having selected Gtk, I object to the idea of reinventing the code in Qt12:50
timelyxit took >5 years to do a rewrite (maybe closer to 7-10)12:50
timelyxnote that Qt's object system isn't really C++, it's Qt (read about MOC)12:51
timelyxso while you can transition from C++ to Qt, it's still a transition12:51
timelyxjust like switching from C or C++ to GObject is a transition12:51
RST38hKhertan: It is a heated topic so you won't find anything intelligeable12:52
*** lizardo has joined #maemo12:52
timelyxpersonally, i've found the Qt documentation to be better than the Gtk documentation, and the Qt impl to be cleaner than similar Gtk impl (i.e. the actual code for both toolkits)12:52
KhertanRST38h: yep this is the problem ... don't find anything intelligeable12:52
RST38hKhertan: And if you program in Python, it probably does not matter to you anyway12:52
timelyxbut I've found bugs in both12:52
*** krutt has joined #maemo12:52
timelyxand I'd rather write my code in js w/ xul12:52
timelyxand avoid both12:52
timelyxfor mozilla, i'd be happier using cairo+x (no Gtk, no Qt)12:53
timelyxsadly we don't have that choice available today12:53
RST38hKhertan: If you program in C/C++, then the summary is "Qt has muchcleaner API due to C++ usage and saner designers"12:53
timelyxfwiw, when the Qt license change was noticed, some mozilla core devs joked about it12:53
timelyxit's pretty hard to actually *love* gtk12:54
Khertantimelyx: i love it :)12:54
Khertanbut i use it with pygtk12:54
RST38hKhertan: See more discussion on the C++ virtues (type checking, encapsulation, etc) somewhere else - these pretty much explain why Qt is better than Gtk style-wise12:54
Khertanbut there is some things i hate ... pixbuf ... pixmap ... :)12:54
timelyxsomeone could probably make a pygtk which actually wrapped Qt12:54
timelyxand you wouln't care12:54
t_s_omeep, after getting mnotes going it seems to have eaten my older notes, not nice :(12:54
*** TheJere has joined #maemo12:54
* timelyx shrugs12:55
Khertant_s_o > really ?12:55
timelyxi still haven't actually read the announcement12:55
Juhazit's very hard to hide c++'isms in a language binding12:55
timelyxfwiw, afaik maemo software didn't know about the license change in advance12:55
Juhazand they REALLY bother me in python12:55
t_s_oKhertan: i had maybe 5-6 notes stored in there, and now there are none. i aldo had to manually install pydes to get it running...12:55
Khertant_s_o: ouch ... pydes shouldn't be required in this version ...12:56
Khertando you get error when launching it in the term ?12:56
t_s_othat was how i sniffed out the pydes requirement12:56
*** k-s[AWAY] is now known as k-s12:57
t_s_oah, operationalerror: no such column: crypted12:57
Khertanbut i don't understand how you can loose your notes12:58
Khertanyeah that it12:58
Khertanso it s just not dispayed12:58
t_s_ook, so as the notes do not have a crypted entry, they are not displayed in the list?12:59
lcukkhertan :D make a note to check and test ;)13:00
Khertanin fact ... i ve packaged with the wrong framework version13:00
*** benh has quit IRC13:00
Khertanthe unfinished one which can crypt notes :)13:00
t_s_oouch ;)13:00
Khertani repackage it :)13:01
*** Free_maN has joined #maemo13:02
RST38hBTW, am I the only one having password problems with the latest Modest?13:02
*** baaba has quit IRC13:02
mgedmindefine password problems13:02
KhertanRST38h: i don't have password problem ... it just never update, or try to update :)13:02
RST38hEvery now and then it shows an account dialog asking me to reenter password13:03
RST38hIf I cancel, leaving the same password, it will show the dialog again13:03
RST38hOf course, if there is nobody to reenter password, the modest email check process just hangs there in the dialog13:03
timelyxdo we have -dbg packages for modest?13:04
timelyxif so, a stack would help13:04
* Khertan is uploading mNotes 0.2.3 to extras builder13:04
* timelyx pokes mxr13:04
t_s_oRST38h: i have sometimes seen that dialog when the real issue is a connection problem13:04
RST38ht_s_o: I assume that the real problem is the connection as well13:05
RST38hBecause the password does not change :)13:05
Khertant_s_o: so i understand that you trust all apps in extras-devel ? :)13:05
RST38hWhy it pops up the dialog and absolutely insists on reentering the same password evades me though13:05
t_s_oespecially funny when modest is for some reason running in the background (i do not have automated checking enabled!) and the connection is activated but has some issue or other, there comes a modest account dialog out of nowhere, asking about faulty password...13:06
timelyx3469 #ifdef MODEST_PLATFORM_MAEMO13:06
timelyx3470         /* Maemo uses a different (awkward) button order,13:06
timelyx3471          * It should probably just use gtk_alternative_dialog_button_order ().13:06
* timelyx sighs13:06
*** greentux has joined #maemo13:06
timelyx3492         modest_window_mgr_set_modal (modest_runtime_get_window_mgr(), GTK_WINDOW (dialog));13:06
t_s_oloved that (awkward) but. talk about eye of the beholder...13:07
timelyxanyway, given that it's modal, it's not surprising that you'd get this behavior13:07
*** Vulcanis has quit IRC13:07
timelyxt_s_o: hey, i'm only quoting code13:07
timelyxi didn't write it :)13:08
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I prefer Maemo's arrangement.13:08
t_s_oheh, didnt say you did13:08
timelyxpersonally i don't like gtk's arrangement :)13:08
* timelyx can't remember maemo's13:08
GeneralAntillesand I need to prod the Carman guys again about either fixing their own or changing the button text. . . .13:08
* timelyx does remember that maemo had wizards with conflicting ordering13:08
* timelyx sighs13:08
* timelyx bangs head against a wall13:08
*** qwerty12_N800 has quit IRC13:09
*** qwerty12_N800 has joined #maemo13:09
timelyx3531 #ifdef MODEST_PLATFORM_MAEMO13:09
timelyx3532         /* Auto-capitalization is the default, so let's turn it off: */13:09
timelyx3533         hildon_gtk_entry_set_input_mode (GTK_ENTRY (entry_username), HILDON_GTK_INPUT_MODE_FULL);13:09
timelyxheh, this code is fun13:09
timelyx3576 /* This is not in the Maemo UI spec:13:10
timelyx3577         remember_pass_check = gtk_check_button_new_with_label (_("Remember password"));13:10
timelyx3578         gtk_box_pack_start (GTK_BOX(GTK_DIALOG(dialog)->vbox), remember_pass_check,13:10
timelyx3579                             TRUE, FALSE, 0);13:10
timelyx3580 */13:10
* timelyx cries13:10
timelyxwhy wasn't that #ifndef MODEST_PLATFORM_MAEMO13:10
Khertant_s_o > mnotes 0.2.3 will be available soon in extras-devel repository13:10
Khertancould you test it and send me what you think of it ?13:10
Khertanby email (
timelyxnumpty physics anyone/13:12
t_s_oremind me, are there any other gui besides gnome and osx that puts the ok button on the left?13:13
*** greentux has quit IRC13:13
GeneralAntillestimelyx, Numpty is just a rip off of Crayon Physics.13:13
mgedmint_s_o: gnome doesn't13:13
t_s_omgedmin: i could have sworn...13:13
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Let's call it a remake ;)13:14
mgedmint_s_o: gnome apps tend to avoid buttons labeled 'ok'.  a button labeled 'close' is more usual, and IIRC it's usually right-aligned13:14
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, quite right, and I didn't mean anything by it, but that's what the creator called it. ;)13:14
t_s_ook, close, whatever.13:14
mgedmint_s_o: great idea!13:15
mgedmina 'whatever' button is what I want on all my licence click-through dialogs13:15
mgedmine.g. maemo's app installer13:15
*** zap_ has joined #maemo13:16
t_s_owhat happened to that patched app manager that removed the warning dialog?13:16
*** lpotter has quit IRC13:16
GeneralAntillest_s_o, maybe in qwerty12's thread?13:17
GeneralAntillesThere's also a bug, I think.13:17
t_s_othere are always bugs...13:17
GeneralAntillesUnfortunately I'm not able to pull the number for this one out of my ass this time. ;)13:17
t_s_oah, yes, i recall said bugreport13:17
*** eichi has joined #maemo13:18
timelyxoh, fwiw, ars is probably the best ref for Qt stuff i suppose13:19
GeneralAntillesStupid slow clipboard13:19
Khertant_s_o > there seems to be still a bug on draw feature of mnotes13:21
Khertando not keep important info in it :)13:21
Khertani mean in the draw feature13:21
Khertantext one work like a charm13:21
t_s_oim not much of a pen artist anyways ;)13:22
*** guerby has quit IRC13:22
*** guerby has joined #maemo13:25
*** ignacius has joined #maemo13:25
*** dougt has quit IRC13:28
* RST38h notices how often bugzilla comments started going into flame mode lately13:33
RST38hNothing to laugh about really =(13:34
GeneralAntillesFrustration with Nokia is beginning to overflow.13:35
GeneralAntillesI think it'll get better moving forward.13:35
RST38hGeneral: There are still 6 months to go13:37
* RST38h did not expect Nokia would turn it into another Pandora13:37
GeneralAntillesMaybe maybe not.13:37
GeneralAntillesRST38h, bullshit.13:37
GeneralAntillesThey haven't announced anything.13:38
StsN801GeneralAntilles, he has a point with signed/unsigned though13:38
RST38hOk, agree, bullshit :)13:38
GeneralAntillesPandora said they'd ship last April13:38
GeneralAntillesthen slipped and slipped again13:38
StsN801as in signed by developer in repo13:38
RST38hGeneral: They did announce Fremantle and seeded hints about N9x0 saying Fremantle will be limited to it13:38
GeneralAntillesNokia hasn't said a word about the next tablet other than that it'll have three things.13:38
RST38hGeneral: from what they said, the N9x0 release date is well deduceable13:39
t_s_oheh, the pandora slippage is better then nothing, at least as long as one didnt preorder ;)13:39
GeneralAntillesRST38h, sure, but how does that compare with the Pandora?13:39
timelyxreally what's the date?13:39
* timelyx wants to know13:39
*** timelE61i has joined #maemo13:40
RST38hGeneral: the pattern of promising stuff (even implicitely) and then keeping would be users in suspense13:41
RST38hGeneral: but I do agree that the initial statement was bullshit though :)13:41
GeneralAntillesThey've promised a beta SDK in May.13:42
GeneralAntillesThat's the extent of it.13:42
*** Zic has joined #maemo13:42
kyndeis the hildon-status-bar-battery open source? where does it read it's battery status from?13:44
tank-manfrom a file13:45
GeneralAntillesNo. DBus.13:45
tank-maneverything is a file in linux :)13:45
GeneralAntilleskynde, if you want a source:
kyndecheers. I'll have a look.13:45
lardmanRST38h: from what they;'ve said I think you're out by a couple of months13:46
*** tobmaster has quit IRC13:46
timelE61idid i ever push a fremantlesdk?13:46
GeneralAntillestimelE61i, I don't see Fremantle on mxr13:46
lardmanRST38h: also re Fremantle only on n900, they are happy to help us with bringing it to the n8x0 devices too, you know that13:46
timelE61iSwift is currently not routable at all13:47
kyndenitapps sources somewhere?13:49
GeneralAntilleskynde, should be in his repo.13:49
kyndenot in the usual place afaik, the only has user/binary-armel as does chinook...13:51
GeneralAntillesHum, dunno then13:51
GeneralAntillesI never was able to talk him into uploading them to Extras.13:52
kyndeno worries, the itt forum link you gave pointed me to the advanced power which is garage with sources. which is exactly what I was looking for. cheers.13:53
*** kcome has quit IRC13:53
kynde(for ther record, even that is not in svn and there latest release candidates are not there as source. I guess some people don't quite grasp the meaning of making sources available...)13:54
GeneralAntilleskynde, some people just aren't that organized.13:55
GeneralAntillesA PM on itT to the creator might be productive, though.13:55
*** wazd has joined #maemo13:56
wazdnoon everybody13:57
kynde:) and sure, why not13:57
*** kcome has joined #maemo13:57
*** eichi has quit IRC13:57
StsN801morning wazd13:58
*** rzr has quit IRC13:59
lardmananyone know how touchscreen pressure measurement works?14:00
lardmanthanks Arthur14:00
X-Fadelardman: resistance?14:01
X-Fadepress harder, wires closer together?14:01
lardmandoes it actually measure the change in resistance between the wires, or are more pressed together?14:01
*** zimmerle has quit IRC14:01
Khertanand press more harder, and wire touch directly the cpu14:01
GeneralAntillesThen magic!14:01
Khertansomeone have some times to do something for me ?14:02
Khertanpushing pygtksourceview to extras14:02
Khertanand extras-devel14:03
lardmanI was just wondering about that pseudo multitouch that uses the size of the touch region, and wondering if our hw can return that, which made me wonder if it uses the size as an analogue for pressure14:03
wazdsince they are called "resistive" then it's something in resistance :)14:03
Khertani ven't got the time to do it from my computer ...14:03
lardman p1814:03
*** rzr has joined #maemo14:03
wazdbut I'm still with General, it's dark magic :)14:04
lardmanno, it's on that page above actually14:04
lardmanit looks like X-Fade was right14:05
lardmanwhich is good14:05
*** eichi has joined #maemo14:05
RST38hlardman: but the real question is, which way out? ;)14:06
RST38hlardman: Am I short by two months or long?14:06
lardmanI'd say short, but the what do I know14:06
RST38hlardman: then things are worse not better14:07
lardmanah sorry, I meant you're long, half asleep14:07
* lardman pours another cup of coffee14:07
RST38hlardman: this would put hw release to the same time as SDK beta release?14:08
lardmanyes, I presume some hw will become available then14:08
lardmanbut again, I'm only guessing wishfully :)14:09
*** greentux has joined #maemo14:10
RST38hthat is wishful thinking at its finest =)14:10
lardmanif you're going to be wishful you may as well make it good (wishing)14:10
*** housetier has joined #maemo14:12
* RST38h in the spirit of being different ((C)Apple) wishes for global apocalypse14:12
aquatixhow's that different?14:13
lardmanmy wish is positive, his isn't? ;)14:13
RST38haquatix means my wish is also positive14:14
RST38hin the global view of things, anyway14:14
aquatixah :P14:15
aquatixRST38h: yeah14:15
*** rsalveti has quit IRC14:17
*** kcome has quit IRC14:19
*** simon_ has joined #maemo14:23
*** k-s is now known as k-s[AWAY]14:24
*** kcome has joined #maemo14:26
*** zenvoid has joined #maemo14:30
*** madhav has joined #maemo14:30
*** hannesw_ has quit IRC14:30
*** StsN801 has quit IRC14:32
*** aloisiojr has joined #maemo14:34
wazddamned AI, crashoing all the time(14:34
* wazd downloading CS4 trial14:35
*** caio1982 has joined #maemo14:36
*** calvaris has quit IRC14:38
lcuklardman, the g1 multitouch comes from the synapse touchpad code i believe14:39
lcukie its very axis oriented14:39
*** kcome has quit IRC14:40
*** flavioribeiro has joined #maemo14:41
lardmanlcuk: yeah, I was just looking at our hw and working out if it could also return an area14:41
*** ccooke has quit IRC14:42
lcukwell it does return the average of your fingers14:42
lcukarea == average over time14:42
lardmanit returns the midpoint does it?14:43
lcukif that average goes from a small radius to a large one you know the user added a second finger14:43
lcukmidpoint of pressure yeah14:43
lardmanok, so you're saying that if it moves, you think a user has added another finger?14:43
lardmanwhat happens if they just move their finger along the screen without lifting?14:44
lardmansame effect?14:44
lcukok, put 1 finger at 0,0.   normally in this world a finger can only move a certain amount per unit in time deltas are < lets say 5 pixels / frame14:45
lcukif the cursor jumps  to 800,0 you have broken that speed limit14:45
*** Cwiiis has joined #maemo14:45
lardmanit would be interesting to see what the "pressure" data does with multiple fingers14:46
mavhcis the actual hardware detecting multiple touches, or does the design of the hardware just happen to return the average?14:46
AndrewfblackMorning guys14:46
lardmanas it's calculated by looking at the resistance of the panel in the two directions, plus some maths14:46
lcuklardman, it varys - look at the multitouch test in liqbase, it becomes MUCH more sensitive14:46
lardmanmavhc: just happens to return the average14:46
lardmanlcuk: ok, I'll have a look14:46
lcukstart off with 0,0 single finger14:46
lcukif the next reading is 400,0 if the pressure differential is the same then you know there are 2 fingers at 0,0 and 800,014:47
*** sergio has quit IRC14:47
lardmanhmm, interesting, I'd have thought the "pressure" would increase as the overall resitance in that direction was reduced14:47
lcukbut if the second finger is only a light touch you might only get a reading of 100,0 for putting two fingers in same place as before14:47
*** ccooke has joined #maemo14:48
*** k-s[AWAY] is now known as k-s14:48
*** Andrewfblack has left #maemo14:48
lardmanI imagine one could measure the touch area by calculating the "pressure" metric in both x & y directions14:48
lardmanand looking at the difference between them14:48
*** andrewfblack has joined #maemo14:48
*** madha1 has quit IRC14:49
lcuki do better than an area by obtaining an elipse of likely touches14:49
lcuki can detect rotation to a high degree of certainty14:49
wazdyour passion should definitely serve some useful things, not multitouch :)14:49
lcukbut because of the pressure difference its always fuzzy and needs averaging out14:49
lardmanlcuk: ok, I was just wondering randomly after seeing that Android thread, I'll have a look at your code at some point :)14:50
lcukwazd, theres lots of things im passionate about, multitouch is an interesting mathematical problem and relates in part to the events and messages an app needs to expect to recieve14:50
lcukthe logic is really simple lardman :)14:50
*** kevinverma has quit IRC14:52
*** zimmerle has joined #maemo14:52
lcukoooer reading it its a bit more convoluted, ill make sure its cleaned up and explained properly - i might make a wiki article about it :)14:53
lardmanwill have a look later on, fde code to debug atm :(14:55
*** rsalveti has joined #maemo14:55
*** flavioribeiro has quit IRC14:55
*** kleist has joined #maemo14:56
lcuknp lardman, have you had your bacon butties yet?14:56
lcukwazd,  have you made that coc de mer logo yet :D14:56
lardmanmmmm, bacon14:56
wazdlcuk: nope, I'm working on Emu Icons right now)14:58
lcukheh cool14:58
lcukback afterwards, lunch over14:58
*** etrunko has joined #maemo14:59
*** Ryback_ has joined #maemo15:01
*** flavioribeiro has joined #maemo15:11
*** eichi has quit IRC15:13
*** Sho_ has joined #maemo15:15
*** hannesw_ has joined #maemo15:16
*** pvanhoof has quit IRC15:17
*** pvanhoof has joined #maemo15:18
*** andrunko has quit IRC15:18
*** andrunko has joined #maemo15:18
*** andrunko has quit IRC15:21
*** andrunko has joined #maemo15:21
*** lfelipe[AWAY] is now known as lfelipe15:22
blafaselAnyone going to FOSDEM this year?15:22
* aquatix is15:23
blafaselI'm just trying to get vacation on fr/mo to join as well.15:24
* aquatix didn't take vacation on monday15:25
aquatixso that might take some extra coffee at work then15:25
* Robot101 is, with a lot of Collabora foljks15:25
aquatixRobot101: yay15:25
aquatixRobot101: do you have  room?15:25
*** Meiz_n810 has joined #maemo15:25
Robot101aquatix: devroom? no we'll be all over the place, a lot of us at the XMPP jingle hacking on friday and summit on monday15:26
aquatixah, you have your own summit afterwards?15:28
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: could you give me url to the mer-installer?15:28
*** gomiam has quit IRC15:29
* rzr plans to go to fosdem too15:33
rzrand gsm forum in bcn.es15:34
*** kleist has quit IRC15:34
*** kleist has joined #maemo15:35
*** matt_c has joined #maemo15:36
*** birunko has joined #maemo15:36
*** aantn has joined #maemo15:44
*** zimmerle has quit IRC15:46
*** zimmerle has joined #maemo15:46
*** mgedmin has quit IRC15:48
*** mgedmin has joined #maemo15:48
*** matt_c has quit IRC15:49
*** MoRpHeUz has joined #maemo15:49
*** matt_c has joined #maemo15:49
*** vivijim has joined #maemo15:50
*** Meizirkki has joined #maemo15:52
*** geaaru has quit IRC15:54
*** bstock has joined #maemo15:58
*** fr01b has joined #maemo15:59
*** tank-man has quit IRC15:59
*** Stslaptop has joined #maemo16:04
*** madhav has quit IRC16:04
JaffaRight. Baby fed.16:05
*** aantn has quit IRC16:09
andrewfblackI'm freezing no matter how high I turn up the heat today, its 72 in my house I shouldn't be cold16:10
GeneralAntillesAndrewfblack, go do jumping jacks.16:10
Stskeepsandrewfblack: getting sick maybe?16:10
*** nico_ has joined #maemo16:11
nico_Hi !16:11
RST38handrew: tried measuring your own temp?16:11
nico_Where can i cry about navicore bug ??16:11
GeneralAntillesnico_, you can try, but don't expect much.16:11
andrewfblackStskeeps I wonder if its really 72 in the room I'm in in the hall its says 72 but its 33 outside I wonder if I'm feeling the cold radiate through the walls lol16:11
GeneralAntillesnico_, Nokia contracted somebody to write "Map" and it doesn't seem like there's a good way to get bugs we report to them.16:12
RST38handrew: I would try obvious things first: 1) checking your own body temperature and 2) eating =)16:12
andrewfblackRST38h Already made breakfast once but when I walked my Wife outside for work dog ate it again16:12
Stskeepsandrewfblack: my body thinks it's way too cold without food :P16:13
andrewfblackWill try that in a min could be that i havn't moved in 2 hours trying to ger MerEcho arrows redone16:13
nico_GeneralAntilles: thx, in fact map'soft can't calc destination outside current map16:14
*** madhav has joined #maemo16:14
GeneralAntillesnico_, I think there's an existing bug, actually.16:14
Jaffa IIRC16:14
*** Free_maN has quit IRC16:15
nico_Jaffa: thx it seems to be this bug16:15
JaffaI wouldn't hold your breath, though :-(16:15
nico_close prog sucks, we only can wait ?!16:15
RST38hSts: fairly predictable16:16
RST38hSts: and from now on, police is gonna make "mistakes" often =)16:17
*** greentux has quit IRC16:17
StskeepsRST38h: well it's interesting.. in .dk we don't have the rule that we look away from evidence if it was obtained illegally or whatever16:18
*** madhav has quit IRC16:18
Stskeepsif it's real evidence and trustable, it may b eused16:18
*** madhav has joined #maemo16:18
andrewfblackhey if I wanted to change Personal Menu icon where would I find that file?16:18
Stskeepsbut there's a shitload of paperwork involved when the police fucks up16:18
*** lfelipe has quit IRC16:19
RST38hSts: it is also logical but making it a law gives police a loophole16:19
*** lfelipe has joined #maemo16:19
GeneralAntillesAndrewfblack, /usr/share/icons/ somewhere in there.16:19
andrewfblackGeneralAntilles: Thanks16:19
zenvoidhello, I would want to learn about the current state of Mer, can someone please give me some hint on where to start?16:19
Stskeeps'lo zenvoid :)16:19
*** richieeee721 has joined #maemo16:20
Stskeepszenvoid: basically - we have a minimal ubuntu jaunty base, a lot of packages compiled from Maemo, that is, we have Maemo GTK, hildon, etc - (screenshots), has current ported packages from Maemo ,16:21
Stskeeps has a lot of the code, - 'imager' is a good place to start if you want to see how we are building the images16:22
Stskeepswe have an updated SB1 SDK,
*** timelE61i has quit IRC16:22
zenvoidthanks!! I will read16:22
zenvoidI have a theme I made same time ago, based on plankton16:23
Stskeepsyeah, i saw it, looks very nice :)16:23
*** flavioribeiro is now known as flavior16:23
Stskeepswe're using wazd's Titan atm, but any user interface stuff is welcome, as us others suck at that part ;)16:24
Stskeepsbut would love to use SB2 instead, based on m-vo's thoughts on (if possible, but i have my doubts) , we also have an installer that partitions a MMC card, sets up bootmenu item, and retrieves a tar.gz. We have ongoing 770 port, x86 and Zaurus (along with N8x0) and kernel cooperation with nitdroid project. And we have an ongoing request with Nokia which would make it easier to distribute firmware ...16:25
Stskeeps... images ( )16:25
zenvoidhaha :) I'm not a graphic designer, but maybe could help in this area16:25
Stskeepsand most development happens in this channel for now (me, johnx, wazd, qwerty12, meizirkki, b-man, others)16:26
zenvoidI have a Neo Frerunner, it would be also an interesting target16:26
Stskeepsyeah, only "issue" is that ubuntu jaunty is armv5t, and freerunner is armv4t16:27
Khertanarmv5t ?16:27
Khertanomap 2 is not armv616:28
StskeepsKhertan: yes, but 770 is armv5t for instance16:28
Stskeepsor zaurus16:28
zenvoidhmmm... but using the right flags for compilation should be possible to port16:28
wazdhello zenvoid :)16:28
Stskeepszenvoid: yeah, - just building all the needed packages16:28
zenvoidhello wazd :)16:28
zenvoidthe xserver is also different16:29
Khertanso you make different build for 770 and n8x0 ?16:29
StskeepsKhertan: no, we don't need to (we do need to change some kernel modules, but thats about it), ubuntu is optimized for armv5te16:29
Stskeepswhich works on armv6te too16:29
Stskeepszenvoid: yeah, - we had a bit of a split between Xorg and Xomap too, but we are on Xorg now16:29
*** greentux has joined #maemo16:30
Khertanhum ... optimized like using a 32bits system on 64bits arch ? :)16:30
zenvoidI have an n810 and 770, and compiled maemo for both with different optimized flags16:30
zenvoidthe trick was to use a wrapper16:30
*** nico_ has quit IRC16:30
zenvoidbasically a shell script called "gcc" that calls the real gcc16:30
Stskeepszenvoid: additionally our relation to Nokia is based on the invitation in ("This early release..")16:31
zenvoidwith the correct flags16:31
Stskeepszenvoid: it's also possible to use SBOX_COMPILER_ARGS posibly16:31
StskeepsKhertan: yeah, using HWCAP to optimize certain libraries16:31
zenvoidI will try SBOX_COMPILER_ARGS, I just discovered this var right now ;-)16:32
Stskeepszenvoid: besides that there's always the brainstorms on -> ->
Stskeepsthe last one is probably going to be rewritten :P16:33
*** andrewfblack has left #maemo16:33
*** andrewfblack has joined #maemo16:33
*** b-man has joined #maemo16:34
Khertanhum ... mer will have his own repository ?16:34
Stskeepsand in additional to people above, andrewfblack works on an Echo-like theme for Mer as well :P16:34
zenvoidit will be an interesting weekend hacking my n810 :)16:34
Khertanbut does we will be able to use the extras and extras-devel on it ?16:34
andrewfblackStskeeps: Speaking of that I really need a new name for it it looks nothing like Echo now lol16:35
Stskeepsandrewfblack: MerAndrew? ;)16:35
StskeepsKhertan: yes, the idea is to be able to recompile without issue (provided you haven't used non-portable stuff)16:35
*** Free_maN has joined #maemo16:35
Stskeepsbut when you've compiled, your stuff will work on x86, n8x0, zaurus, etc16:35
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: will the latest installer handle nm-applet?16:35
Stskeepsb-man: what url does your installer point to?16:36
b-manhold on, i'll grab it16:36
Stskeepsk, ta16:37
zenvoidStskeeps: I prefer sb2 over the old scratchbox, but currently has a bug:16:37
Khertanis it useable at this time ?16:37
Stskeepszenvoid: do you use the Maemo-SDK+ qemu?16:37
Stskeeps(trust me, it helps)16:38
Meiz_n810it did not ask me where to install16:38
*** flavior has left #maemo16:38
zenvoidStskeeps: yes I use it16:38
Stskeepszenvoid: but yeah, sb2 has a lot of those quirks16:39
Stskeepsi spent a couple of weeks on it but went back to sb116:39
Meiz_n810and it did not aks me what partition to use for swap16:39
StskeepsMeiz_n810: i'm going to owe you a bottle of vodka or two at some point :P16:39
Meiz_n810i'm gonna reboot and see if that helps16:39
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: lol16:39
b-manit worked fine for me 0_o16:40
Meiz_n810:) rebooting now16:40
StskeepsMeiz_n810: edit the installer script btw and use /mer/mer-n800-fs-only-image.tar.gz instead of the 0.616:40
Khertando you plan to deliver Mer with applications ? does there is some decision already done about that ?16:40
StskeepsKhertan: a X terminal is basic - but yes, of course we hope to deliver it with content16:41
Stskeepsbut content that can be removed easily16:41
Stskeepsso anyone can build their own firmware image if wanted :P16:41
Stskeeps(bake your own)16:41
Khertanstskeeps, and a web browser, to found the xterm command help :)16:41
*** rjelari has joined #maemo16:41
StskeepsKhertan: yeah, i hope we'll be able to have tablet-browser-ui at some point, and of course, webkit engine ;)16:42
*** Meiz_n810 has quit IRC16:42
KhertanStskeeps: for me making my own image isn't a priority ... it s more easy to use apt-get install :)16:42
RST38hSend in your proposals, quick:
*** mlpug has joined #maemo16:43
Stskeepszenvoid: anyway, if you'd like to, sign up on launchpad, and request to join
KhertanRST38h: ? what is NFC Forum's ?16:44
Stskeepsit's our current cooperation infrastructure until garage git is okay16:44
*** Meiz_n810 has joined #maemo16:44
RST38hKhertan: NFCs are Near Field Communication devices16:44
Khertanah ... ;)16:45
RST38hKhertan: smart RFID transmitters built into your phone and letting you pay for things basically16:45
b-manStskeeps: you want me to change mer-armel-n8x0-image-v0.6.tar.gz to mer-n800-fs-only-image.tar.gz instead? :)16:45
zenvoidStskeeps: thanks, I will sign up there16:45
RST38hKhertan: it is not clear why this stuff should be expensive though16:45
Stskeepsb-man: nah, not right now16:45
Stskeepsb-man: it was just for meiz testing16:45
Stskeepsb-man: having ability to edit url that it gets the image from could help though16:46
KhertanRST38h: to resume : something useless and expensive which can seriously break anonimity16:46
b-manyou can :)16:46
b-manfrom a zenity window16:46
Stskeepszenvoid: we have a builder of sorts that builds x86 and armv5te packages and uploads to repository on (just msg me your mail address if you want a jaiku invite16:46
RST38hKhertan: lots of thingscan break anonymity (you are paying with credit card,s aren't you? :))16:46
*** zimmerle has quit IRC16:47
KhertanRST38h: i don't understand why it so expensive ... i ve a train pass in my pocket which already have rfid ...16:47
Meiz_n810b-man / Stskeeps:
RST38hKhertan: What makes this particular one more expensive thaan average rfid chip (few pennies) with I2C inerface is unclear16:47
KhertanRST38h: i try to avoid ... :)16:47
Stskeepszenvoid: and a microblogging on :)16:47
Stskeepszenvoid: sorry for all the information, i should really put this in a page :)16:47
RST38hKhertan: what a terrorist you are! =)16:47
*** sergio has joined #maemo16:47
*** baaba has joined #maemo16:48
KhertanRST38h: nope ... my phone is connected :)16:48
*** kleist has quit IRC16:48
zenvoidStskeeps: haha :-) I'm bookmarking all those urls...16:48
KhertanStskeeps: hope info on mer grabbed on the fly ...16:48
RST38hKhertan: see, can't avoid it16:48
Khertanstskeeps: i don't ask before as i don't want to disturb you to get a stable mer release as soon as possible :)16:49
StskeepsKhertan: i'm always up for discussion16:49
*** kleist has joined #maemo16:50
b-manMeiz_n810: hold on, i'll upload a fix for that in a sec16:50
StskeepsKhertan: the only risk is that people end up actually taking part themselves when discussing the issues ;)16:50
MeizirkkiStskeeps: i have one suggestion about the start-hildon script, if you remove the "-dialog_mode static" from matchbox-window-manager startup command, dialogs can be moved, but they still appear in right place16:51
Stskeepsb-man: put "set -x -e" in the top of your script after #!/bin/sh16:51
andrewfblackHad some complants about the arrows I used in MerEcho so I redid them all new screenshot
Stskeepsb-man: that way it stops when it encounters an error16:51
*** kcome has joined #maemo16:51
b-manok, thanks :)16:51
KhertanStskeeps: héhé16:51
StskeepsMeizirkki: interesting16:51
StskeepsRST38h: that explains Bush.16:51
mavhcyour mom's a giant hologram16:52
RST38handrew: yep, much nicer16:52
Stskeepsin star trek, there were always the obnoxious characters in holoprograms16:52
Stskeepsandrewfblack: looks good :)16:52
RST38hSts: the only thing that explains Bush is a story of apocalypsis16:52
RST38hSts: He is one of the horses.16:53
*** matt_c has quit IRC16:54
*** simon_ has quit IRC16:54
andrewfblackI feel its just about done unless you guys can thing of anything else let me know16:54
RST38handrew: you may want to fill the scroll bar background with some pattern16:54
b-manMeiz_n810: fixed the problem, it turned out that it was looking for partitions.lst in the wrong path :p16:55
RST38handrew: if you are definitely AGAINST having a background there, at least draw a thin dashed or dotted line that shows where the scroll bar is16:55
* b-man starts re-building deb16:55
andrewfblackRST38h I'll take a look at it with pattern or with just a line16:55
mavhc"shaped like a Pringle" -- apparently noone knows what saddles are anymore16:56
Stskeepszenvoid: anyway, when you're too shell shocked from reading all the material, i'd like to know what areas you like to work on with regards to Maemo platform and such :)16:56
* lardman wonders if there's an alarm clock on his n81016:56
Stskeepslike, what you think is fun :)16:56
Stskeepslardman: there's one in Clock application16:56
Jaffalardman: Built-in `Clock' app has alarm feature16:56
lardmanthanks chaps16:57
RST38hmavhc: Pringles producer paid for placing an ad =)16:57
Stskeepslardman: don't rely on it though :P16:57
JaffaTTOTD:  Don't rely on a tablet for anything16:57
GeneralAntillesOnly Nokia could make an alarm clock fail.16:57
lardmanStskeeps: yeah, ok16:57
mavhcResults 1 - 3 of 3 for pringle saddle negative-curve16:57
*** t0h has quit IRC16:57
RST38halarm clock is nothing16:58
KhertanGeneralAntilles: nope ... try the palm one16:58
*** t0h has joined #maemo16:58
RST38hon S60, status screen and screensaver often crash16:58
*** rmoravcik has quit IRC16:58
RST38hnokia even hides the error mesages starting with s60e316:58
*** avs has joined #maemo16:58
*** rmoravcik has joined #maemo16:59
zenvoidStskeeps: yeah, I need to rebuild/hack and get an overall idea of the current state, and then I'll probably know what to do :P17:00
Stskeepsa SD card on 2gb is a good tool at least :)17:00
Stskeepszenvoid: oh, and r2d2rogers does the 770 port17:01
Stskeepsjust so you know who's-who17:01
Stskeepswe have some awkward sapwood problems on there, but that's a different saga17:01
zenvoidoh, yes, I hate the sapwood engine17:02
*** alecrim has joined #maemo17:03
zenvoidin fact, it is partially replaced by clearlooks in my theme17:03
zenvoidyes... give me a minute, I will upload the debs to a public space17:03
*** kimitake_______2 has joined #maemo17:03
Stskeepswhat tool do you use for theme making btw? kontorri's?17:03
andrewfblackRST38h: I ran a simple lin to connect the arrows on both sides it looks good but I'm not going to make a new release for a few days17:05
andrewfblackbut you can grab it from
*** Dar has quit IRC17:06
*** sergio has quit IRC17:06
*** frade has quit IRC17:06
*** sergio has joined #maemo17:06
RST38handrew: do check if a dashed or dotted line looks better17:07
b-manMeiz_n810: - shuld fix the problem17:07
Stskeepsyou better have added the -x -e ;)17:08
andrewfblacktime to get some food and watch some TV17:08
*** andrewfblack is now known as AFB|Away17:08
b-manStskeeps: i did ;)17:08
GAN800Sounds like a superhero.17:10
GAN800Andrew F Black away!17:10
b-man*dramatic hero music*17:10
b-manStskeeps: adding set -e -x in the script causes the installer to fail :(17:13
Stskeepsb-man: fair enough, where does it fail?17:13
b-manright at the simple/advanced stage17:14
Stskeepspastebin what happens :)17:14
zenvoidI'm looking at the MerEcho screenshot, it looks great17:17
*** rzr has quit IRC17:18
*** tulkastaldo has joined #maemo17:18
zenvoidanyways, here is another theme if someone wants to try:17:18
b-manit doesn't seem to display an error, witch is strange17:19
Stskeepsb-man: #17:20
Stskeepsb-man: + [ = 1 ]17:20
Stskeepssh: 1: unknown operand17:20
Stskeepsyou should do if [ x$whatever = x1 ] :)17:20
*** frade has joined #maemo17:20
*** rzr has joined #maemo17:22
*** qwerty12 has joined #maemo17:22
Stskeepsb-man: the reason why it stops is cos gxmessage returns 1 or 217:22
Stskeepsbasically you should add some error handlers..17:22
b-manhow can i do that?17:23
* Stskeeps ponders if sh has an "or die" thing17:23
*** ciroip has joined #maemo17:24
*** dougt has joined #maemo17:24
Meiz_n810is there a newer one?17:24
StskeepsMeiz_n810: yeah, editing that one, to the one i mentioned earlier17:25
*** sergio has quit IRC17:25
*** sergio has joined #maemo17:25
Stskeepsb-man: if [ $? != 0 ]; then something bad happened fi17:25
Stskeepsafter running a command17:25
Stskeeps(and remove the set -x -e again17:25
Stskeepsbasically any command that -needs- to work17:26
*** kimitake_______2 has quit IRC17:26
Stskeeps(dont ask this with zenity for instance17:26
Stskeepszenvoid: the advantage of sapwood is however the caching of pixmaps17:27
Stskeepsbtw is our theme layout17:27
Stskeeps394 is the most important17:27
*** Sargun has quit IRC17:27
*** simon_ has joined #maemo17:29
zenvoidStskeeps: yes, I know, sapwood is good for the hildon menu and other things... while trying to port apps I've noticed some gtk widgets not themed...17:29
zenvoidand then I mixed both sapwood and clearlooks17:30
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: btw, release announcement says per-week alpha sdk updates (-when alpha comes out-)17:30
Stskeepswhich is probably why we haven't gotten it yet :)17:30
GAN800Yeah, should be soon.17:30
RST38hweekly cvssnapshotsshouldnotbethathard17:31
GAN800Yeah, we're in pre-alpha17:31
GAN800Stskeeps, and, yes, I'm aware of the plan. I've talked to Quim about it.17:31
*** Grackle has quit IRC17:32
*** philipl has quit IRC17:32
Stskeepsi'll be pretty furious if alpha sdk comes out in the next 7 days, really :)17:33
*** Grackle has joined #maemo17:33
Stskeepswhen that happened last time i was in the midst of finishing my semester :P17:33
*** fab has quit IRC17:33
Stskeepsand scaringily, maemo >= homework17:34
StskeepsKhertan: thinking about quitting?17:36
RST38hSo, what will it be: C# or VB.NET?17:36
zenvoidI feel your pain, man ;-)17:36
lardmanstill supports C too ;)17:36
*** murrayc has joined #maemo17:37
KhertanRST38h: the two in the same project !17:37
suihkulokkiKhertan: there is no limit of Linux/FOSS related jobs all around the world..17:37
Khertansuihkulokki: yep all around the world ... this is the problem !17:38
Khertannot near my home17:38
RST38hKhertan: Secretly implement it all in Python, with C# bindings17:39
RST38hThen quit!17:40
Stskeepsironpython? :P17:40
lcukRST38h, you cant do that, they would notice the apps run faster and ask questions17:40
KhertanRST38h: hum ... this is a solution ... :)17:40
suihkulokkiwhere exactly do live then... ?17:41
RST38hlcuk:they will just blaim it on Khertan's superior programming skill17:41
lcukkhertan :) if its any consolation im in the same boat :)17:41
RST38hno, really, this is getting annoying17:42
Khertani'm the project leader :)17:42
*** Sho_ has quit IRC17:42
Stskeepsthen choose to write it in ironpython17:43
lcukthen why do you need to install programming language?17:43
*** sergio has quit IRC17:43
suihkulokkibesides, "not willing to move" is certainly one of the best ways to avoid exciting jobs :P17:43
*** sergio has joined #maemo17:43
lcukjust buy a whip and drum17:43
*** skibur has joined #maemo17:44
lcuksuihkulokki, many people cannot upsticks and move, theres families and lives and other complex things17:44
johnxnot warm O_o17:44
Stskeepsmorning johnx17:44
Khertanbecause the company is so small that ... a project leader is also a developper :)17:44
Stskeepsjohnx, meet zenvoid17:44
lcukkhertan :)17:44
zenvoidStskeeps: I'm starting to think that there is very little in my maemo fork that could be useful in Mer... I currently have several GB of outdated *things* in my hard disk and lot of patches packages that I don't even remember :S17:44
johnxah, hey zenvoid :D17:45
Stskeepszenvoid: hehe, on the other hand, your experience is worth a lot17:45
zenvoidyeah, time to start again, more fun :-)17:45
Stskeepsso what other things did you do than theme, and you mentioned upstart and such?17:45
zenvoidStskeeps: yes, upstart, custom scripts for booting, usbnet integrated in libconic (should be in the connection manager, but it is closed source)17:47
Meiz_n810b-man: installer seems to work now :)17:47
b-mancool :)17:47
Meiz_n810after removing the x=e whaatever17:47
qwerty12zenvoid, this wasn't the case then, but you can write plugins for the icd in diablo now17:48
*** aantn has joined #maemo17:49
Stskeepszenvoid: yeah, icd is a bit of a bitch but it's also a lot better than NM in some ways... :P17:49
zenvoidqwerty12: ahh, good to know17:49
zenvoidStskeeps: ... started to replace sounds with free ones (made from scratch, synthesized)17:49
Stskeepszenvoid: oh, we definately need that part too17:49
Stskeepszenvoid: i've had someone complain that the touch screen taps didn't make sounds, when i did Deblet :)17:50
*** notcoolbuthot has joined #maemo17:50
zenvoidStskeeps: ... and replaced some components with free alternatives. To be honest I must say I forgoten what changes I did, I will take a look at my own code again :-)17:50
Stskeepsas it serves as a feedback for some17:50
Stskeepszenvoid: which components for instance? i'm curious :)17:50
zenvoidkeyboard select in the panel, some applets in the statusbar...17:51
* b-man just designed a much better way for the installer to know weather you've sucsessfuly connected to the wed or not :)17:51
*** madha1 has joined #maemo17:51
zenvoid... and others I don't remember... I will look :)17:52
notcoolbuthothi, does anyone know how to link the library 'lpthread' into a maemo application so that I can use pthreads ?  must something be added to the or  files ?17:52
*** philipl has joined #maemo17:52
lardmanadd it to the linker commands?17:52
zenvoidStskeeps: I can create the sounds, it is very easy with softsynths17:53
zenvoidzynaddsubfx, for example17:53
Stskeepsyeah.. had a course on digitial audio but i'm not strictly creative in that area17:53
Stskeepsdigital, i mean17:53
johnxzenvoid, this is all great stuff. :D problems we haven't even started to look at are already getting solved :)17:54
zenvoidStskeeps: are you creative in analog audio?17:54
Stskeepszenvoid: not either :>17:54
lardmannotcoolbuthot: LDFLAGS+=-lpthreads or similar?17:54
zenvoidjohnx: glad to help17:54
notcoolbuthotwhere should I add them to the linker commands ?  I know you can add this library in the command line when gcc-ing from the console17:54
lardmanwhat are you compiling?17:55
notcoolbuthotbut I need it specified in the so that in eclipse, the generate configure will work17:55
notcoolbuthotI'm compiling a custom application of mine17:56
zenvoidStskeeps: well, neither I do... but I'm in the freepats project :D17:56
lardmanwhy not generate the configure script, then call it like so?: "LDFLAGS="-lpthreads" ./configure"17:56
Khertanif you need sound ... i can create many !17:56
zenvoidKhertan: really?17:56
*** ||cw has quit IRC17:56
Khertannope :)17:56
Khertandepends on what you need17:57
StskeepsKhertan: farting sounds doesn't count ;)17:57
Khertana metal sound theme ?17:57
*** zap_ has quit IRC17:57
Khertansome guitar riff ?17:57
*** madha2 has joined #maemo17:57
Khertana nice piano melody at startup ?17:57
qwerty12Stskeeps, if you (by any chance) need a software midi synthesizer app, I'll put in a plug for timidity :P17:57
Stskeepsqwerty12: hehe17:57
zenvoidKhertan: that would be nice :)17:57
johnxactually a startup piano sound might be kind of nice. definitely different than other systems, which is good17:58
lardmanhmm, alarm did work, but came up in a normal window, with normal buttons and normal text, not maemo-fied17:58
Stskeepslardman: trying to replicate a bug or?17:58
wazdRST38h: Is that too much for symbian?)
Khertanyou see ... saying stupid things can give idea for great things :)17:59
zenvoidjohnx: it should be very easy to create with free tools, see
Khertando you have preferences for the piano melody ?17:59
zenvoidit looks that I will be doing audio things :)17:59
lardmanStskeeps: no, just reminding myself to go invigilate17:59
Khertanjazz / blues / classic ?17:59
Khertanor a /dev/random > /dev/sound17:59
*** lardman is now known as lardman|gone18:00
zenvoidKhertan: Just a few notes, I think...18:00
*** ||cw has joined #maemo18:00
RST38hwazd: sorry, have been away18:00
johnxKhertan, something that makes you think "yay! I just booted into Mer! hope and peace." :)18:01
Stskeepsjohnx: ocean sound? :P18:01
wazdRST38h: np)18:01
* qwerty12 suggests having forward riddim as the startup tune18:01
RST38hwazd: I think Symbian should handle it just fine, unless that black shadow at the LCD screen is a "real" shadow (i.e. based on opacity setting)18:01
johnxStskeeps, with seaguls?18:01
Stskeepsjohnx: there is actually a sound like that in Maemo18:01
Stskeepsin the alarm clock18:01
Khertanpreferences for real sound (mean recorded for a real piano), or a synthetic one ?18:01
*** thopiekar has joined #maemo18:01
wazdRST38h: nope, that's just black rectangle)18:01
*** thopiekar has left #maemo18:02
johnxStskeeps, aaah, yeah the alarm sound that tricks you into thinking you got drunk and fell asleep on the beach again18:02
*** sergio has quit IRC18:02
wazdRST38h: I've done as you said, no gradients and effects18:02
zenvoidKhertan: do you have a real piano?18:02
Stskeepsjohnx: yeah, i've had some pretty interesting final dream moments based on it18:02
*** sergio has joined #maemo18:02
Khertanzenvoid: yep18:02
johnxStskeeps, though actually it's less grating than any other alarm I ever had. dunno if it would wake me up after a while though...I might tune it out18:03
zenvoidKhertan: oh, that is very good. Do you mind joining to the freepats project? ;-)18:03
Khertanfreepats ?18:03
* wazd gone to unload car full of 50kg bags of Rotband x(18:04
Khertanhum ... i think i need better tool to record the sound of my piano to get something usefull ...18:05
*** hannesw_ has quit IRC18:05
RST38hwazd: I will try placing it into Maemo and Symbian versions tonight (once I get some free time)18:06
zenvoidKhertan: hehe, just the opposite, I have a nice recording equipment and no piano ;-)18:06
StskeepsMeiz_n810: installer works so far?18:07
RST38hwazd: BTW, you can probably make GB a bit shorter by shrinking space beweeen LCD and buttons - this way it should look closer to the real thing and also the icon can be made a bit bigger18:07
*** madhav has quit IRC18:08
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: yep, it's downloading atm18:10
StskeepsMeiz_n810: good18:10
Stskeepsand it didn't destroy anything this time? ;)18:10
*** konttori has joined #maemo18:11
*** kcome has quit IRC18:11
*** rmoravcik has quit IRC18:11
Meizirkkiit works fine so far, now it's unpacking18:12
zenvoidanyone tested powerlaunch?
*** madha1 has quit IRC18:13
qwerty12I tested it on mer, didn't work so well...18:13
Stskeepszenvoid: it is a very interesting tool but also in dire need of a good HOWTO18:13
zenvoidahh, ok18:13
Stskeepsit is basically a small scripting language for event handling18:13
Meizirkkizenvoid: last time i tried there was no support for n810, so it did not work in my n810 really well18:13
Stskeepssuch as, push the top button => show the dialog for shut down, offline mode etc18:13
Stskeepsor push twice, rescue mode18:13
Stskeepsor other things18:13
Stskeepsit is, very powerful, but also in need of some rethinking18:14
Stskeepsand we've considered using it in Mer since it is a systemui and mce replacement18:15
*** Meizirkki has quit IRC18:15
zenvoidthat is also the reason that got my attention :)18:15
Stskeepsright now we're holding out on OHM release (which should get rid of MCE)18:16
Stskeepsbut there's a definate need for a powerlaunch like thing to act as an outside process to the hildon desktop, etc18:16
johnxStskeeps, what events does powerlaunch act on? just the buttons?18:17
Stskeepsjohnx: sec18:18
zenvoidwill the OHM be on the upcoming maemo 5?18:18
Stskeepszenvoid: yeah18:18
zenvoidas opensource?18:18
Stskeepsyeah, but it might have some closed source plugins18:18
johnxzenvoid, yup. they're pushing it as a solution for other platforms too18:18
zenvoidthat's very good18:19
*** Meizirkki has joined #maemo18:19
* johnx RTFM on powerlaunch18:19
*** qwerty12_N800 has quit IRC18:19
johnxah, touchscreen, keys, dbus, and gconf. awesome18:20
Meizirkkiit would be nice feature in Mer, that once the screen is locked, cpu is put in powersave18:20
Stskeepsjohnx: and glade, etc..18:20
*** hannesw has joined #maemo18:20
*** sergio has quit IRC18:20
Meizirkkimaybe not...18:20
*** sergio has joined #maemo18:20
johnxMeizirkki, :) There's a neat presentation on how powersaving works on the omap2. any interest?18:21
Meizirkkipwrsave mode really saves power but it really slows cpu down too18:21
StskeepsMeiz_n810: yes/no - it's more on the lines of "if you want to make this happen, you can do it quite easily by scripting X"18:21
Meizirkkijohnx: yep18:21
*** greentux has quit IRC18:21
Stskeepsjohnx: having powerlaunch ported to mer would be a bonus though. but most of the confs have to be rewritten18:21
*** pupnik has quit IRC18:22
Stskeepsbasically, we should hook austinche in some way to get cracking on Mer.. ;)18:22
KhertanMeizirkki: it s not a good idea ... mine many time do many things while screen is locked18:23
KhertanMeizirkki: or with an option18:23
lcukMeizirkki, johnx, powersave when locked should be an option only, i routinely run machine using ssh and command line with it totally locked - compilation on device is pretty much 10x slower in powersave vs performance18:23
* lcuk leaves machine on performance all the time18:24
zenvoidI could be implemented as a configurable option in the CP, so everyone is happy18:24
Khertana question lcuk ... when we set the performance mode in liqbase ...18:24
lcukmisbehaving applications drain the battery when in performance mode, not the fact its in performance ;)18:24
Stskeepszenvoid: there also exists advanced power which has those kind of options too18:24
*** pupnik has joined #maemo18:24
Khertandoes that is only for liqbase or does it s keep after exiting ?18:25
*** b-man has quit IRC18:25
lcukno, it leaves it for everything until reboot, but the trunk version here now does it differently, it does a turbo mode - when in certain screens it automatically powers up to performance (with an option of course)18:25
Khertanhum ....18:25
Khertanas i don't see any differences :)18:26
Meiz_n810b-man / Stskeeps: installer finished! :)18:26
lcukdont see any differences where?18:26
Khertanso my problem is a memory pb18:26
StskeepsMeiz_n810: woo18:26
Khertanlcuk: in performances18:26
Meiz_n810(i did not flash bootmenu18:26
lcukperformance of *what* though?18:26
StskeepsMeiz_n810: you had deblet bootmenu before?18:26
lcukgcc runs really fast in performance and crap in powersave18:26
Stskeepsas in, do you have bootmenu right now?18:27
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: yes18:27
Khertanof my apps, webpage parsing ... and many other things18:27
StskeepsMeiz_n810: feel free to check if the .item matches your expectations18:27
Stskeeps(actually, pastebin me it.)18:27
lcukkhertan, your biggest problem is python itself :)18:27
Stskeepsthe one it generated18:27
Khertanlcuk: nope18:27
johnxMeizirkki, the short version of that presentation is: when the omap2 is idle (ie, no programs are trying to do something) the CPU turns off and a 32KHz timer runs to keep track of when to wake up again. so performance mode or powersave mode doesn't matter as long as notthing is running18:27
*** borism_ has joined #maemo18:27
Khertanthe biggest one is browserd18:27
lcukjohnx, is that the reason why i can run in performance all day - ie justification for what i said up there?18:28
johnxlcuk, exactly. :) you'd probably like that presentation too18:28
lcukkhertan, what are you using browserd for?18:28
RST38hlcuk: Give up already and compile on the host18:28
lcukyeah please18:28
lcukno rst18:28
lcukthere is a reason im working directly from the device18:29
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: no quotation marks...18:29
RST38hthey have taken your computer away? =)18:29
johnxquick read. lots of nice pictures :) if you missed it search for '' in your scrollback18:29
Khertanlcuk : for reading the gtk documentation18:29
*** housetier has quit IRC18:29
lcuklower the bar for native applet/small application development to simply become "install IDE on windows/linux/max host and run18:29
qwerty12That item actually works?18:29
*** housetier has joined #maemo18:30
StskeepsMeiz_n810: okay, think we should get bman to look at that18:30
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: mmcblk0 is the external card to use with initfs btw18:30
Jaffalcuk: hear hear18:30
*** yerga has joined #maemo18:30
StskeepsMeiz_n810: is it the installer .item or your own?18:30
RST38hlcuk: well, it is close to that, with some unfortunate gotchas18:30
RST38hlcuk: is that wrong though?18:31
Meizirkkijohnx: ok18:31
johnxRST38h, yeah, like: if you're on windows, fuck off and die18:31
RST38hjohnx: yep ;)18:31
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: installer of course18:31
johnxRST38h, turns out windows guys want to write us apps too. I don't think a trial by fire is necessary...18:31
JaffaAnd OS X too18:32
RST38hjohnx: Ubuntu is relatively painless to install even for a Windows guy18:32
StskeepsMeiz_n810: alright18:32
*** borism has quit IRC18:32
RST38hjohnx: You end up sacrificing 5-10GB of your HD though18:32
StskeepsMeiz_n810: can you check if it boots (i presume you have a boot menu item alrady)?18:33
johnxRST38h, yeah, but dual booting is annoying and many people actually don't want to mess around running a VM18:33
zenvoidRST38h: there is nothing more painful than installing vista, man ;-)18:33
* Meiz_n810 boots18:33
*** TheJere has quit IRC18:33
*** TheJere has joined #maemo18:33
qwerty12zenvoid, haha, I've installed vista 7 times (upgrades & fresh installs)... :P18:33
lcukdual booting, vmware, scratchbox all make it HARD.  sure for some levels of dev its required but not for the sorts of things most people wanna write18:33
RST38hjohnx: Well, if you remember I have always insisted on having a "normal" Maemo SDK, but given that it is not going to happen, Ubuntu is the only way18:33
RST38hjohnx: It is better than typing and compiling on a tablet18:34
johnxRST38h, not so sure on that...18:34
RST38hjohnx: try ;)18:34
* RST38h did18:34
lcukadv-* series all can be done on device, all the alarm clock applets games and funky stuff.  simple little starter projects :)18:34
*** ttmrichter has quit IRC18:34
MeizirkkiStskeeps: seems to boot..18:34
*** kleist has quit IRC18:34
lcukanyway, bbl :)18:35
johnxRST38h, so did I. sometimes it's a good first test: does this work if I compile native? then I can sort out cross-compile errors later18:35
Meizirkkii love the mer splash-screen :)18:35
StskeepsMeizirkki: you should see the rescue menu too18:35
RST38hjohnx: I can't edit on a tablet even if I can compile there, sorry18:35
johnxRST38h, and if you have a small codebase and don't need to compile support libs it's totally tractable, especially if you can do it in an sd chroot18:35
RST38hjohnx: there is no way to do reliable input right now18:35
qwerty12Stskeeps, have you released any new tarballs recently?18:35
MeizirkkiStskeeps, i'll try the rescue menu too, it worked in my earlier installation18:36
johnxRST38h, yeah, no shit. I might show my ignorance but is there a reason you can't edit in an IDE, then rsync to the tablet and tell it "compile this"?18:36
Stskeepsqwerty12: i have a unofficial one atm18:36
qwerty12ah, fair enough18:36
RST38hjohnx: Yes there is a reason18:36
MeizirkkiStskeeps: pressing enter in h-i-m seems to crash Xorg too18:36
Meizirkkinot sure18:36
StskeepsMeizirkki: ..18:36
johnxenter and backspace18:37
RST38hjohnx: I have got a much faster compiler where I have got IDE, so why compile on a tablet? =)18:37
johnxRST38h, options. it's all about options :)18:37
RST38hjohnx: nah, it is about common sense18:37
johnxbeing able to compile on the tablet does not preclude compiling in scratchbox. if I couldn't do both I would have given up by now18:37
RST38hjohnx: most commercial developers will use the easiest, fastest, most painless route18:37
RST38hjohnx: So, options are good, but the only option that gets used in practice is the sanest one18:38
johnxRST38h, right now there isn't a route that fits that description and so they just go away18:38
RST38hjohnx: they go away for a different reason - no market18:38
qwerty12Why is this channel home to some of the most pointless arguments?18:38
RST38hjohnx: if there were a market, you wouldn't see them going away ;)))18:38
Stskeepsqwerty12: it's IRC?18:38
RST38hqwerty: it is irc!18:38
zenvoid"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen" -- Albert Einstein18:38
qwerty12Stskeeps, RST38h: hehe :P18:38
johnxRST38h, any roadblock removed is a good thing in my opinion18:39
Stskeepsqwerty12: there's bound to be some golden nuggets in the discussions once in a while though18:39
*** sergio has quit IRC18:39
wazdI'm back18:39
*** sergio has joined #maemo18:39
*** b-man has joined #maemo18:39
wazdBut that was too heavy for me)18:39
RST38hjohnx: we won't see this happen any time soon, so realistically, just have to live with things as they are =(18:39
johnxwazd, it builds character :)18:39
RST38hwazd: piano delivery? =)18:40
Stskeepsb-man: installer works good but there's problems with the bootmenu item generation18:40
wazdRST38h: kinda)18:40
*** Wikier has quit IRC18:40
johnxRST38h, easily compiling anything natively is already possible in Mer. It's just a question of becoming more popular than Nokia's distro :)18:40
b-man uploaded - includes a re-designed wifi connection system and has a fuew minor fixes18:40
Stskeepsb-man:  - you should use "'s in the output (use \" when outputting), missing ITEM_MODULES, ITEM_FSTYPE, and ITEM_DEVICE should be ${INT_CARD}pX or ${EXT_CARD}pX18:41
b-manok, will do ;)18:41
Stskeepshehe, just trying to help :)18:41
*** qwerty12 has quit IRC18:42
*** qwerty12_1 has joined #maemo18:42
*** qwerty12_1 is now known as qwerty1218:42
*** Meiz_n810 has quit IRC18:42
*** Free_maN has quit IRC18:43
RST38hjohnx: one answer: speed18:43
RST38hjohnx: You can easily compile whatever you want but it takes ages18:44
RST38hSo there is really no reason to do it, considering that you can't edit your code on the device well enough18:44
johnxRST38h, Sorry. I'm done with this argument. got packages to hack on18:45
Khertanmerinstaller ...18:45
Khertani would like to try the current mer version18:45
Khertandoes i should try the mer installer ... ?18:45
Khertandoes it flash18:45
StskeepsKhertan: the current setup is one that installs to a SD card, partitions it for you, and puts on the image for it18:46
Stskeepswe will -also- have kernel + rootfs images18:46
* b-man reviews some code18:46
Stskeepsb-man: i wonder if we can do a "I can see that you have cloned your Maemo OS to SD, want me to make a bootmenu item for it?"18:47
Stskeepsthat would help a lot18:47
b-manshure :)18:47
Stskeepsjust remember how many people complained when deblet installer didn't make a bootmenu item :P18:47
*** mk8 has left #maemo18:48
KhertanStskeeps: so in need a boot menu :)18:48
*** qwerty12 has quit IRC18:48
StskeepsKhertan: hopefully it will be piece of cake to get :)18:48
Khertancan do it myseld18:48
b-manStskeeps: does our kernel support usplash?18:48
Stskeepsb-man: no clue - we dont use usplash18:49
Stskeepswe use a custom made thing18:49
Khertanthe problem is that i want to keep my external card in fat3218:49
Khertanfor file transfer18:49
johnxKhertan, could you resize the fat32 partition?18:49
StskeepsKhertan: basically there's two modes: simple - choose which SD you want to install into, and it'll make a fat32 partition, swap and rest ext318:50
Khertanand can't use the internal one in ext2 or ext3 as the swap file on maemo 4 is in the internal18:50
b-mani have it installed in ubuntu and it's not working so i'm guessing no :)18:50
Stskeepsand advanced where you can choose how the partition one wants looks18:50
*** Grackle has quit IRC18:50
*** rsalveti has quit IRC18:50
Khertanjohnx> hum ... not a great idea to resize a fat32 partition :)18:50
*** fireun has joined #maemo18:50
johnxKhertan, why not?18:50
Khertananyway ... i ll do things differently ...18:51
johnxseems to be working fine for me18:51
Khertankeep my data on internal meme18:51
Khertanmemory ... and use the external card in ext318:51
StskeepsKhertan: it is always possible to have a secondary external card though :)18:51
RST38hjohnx: Have you seen the ubuntu woman story this morning btw?18:51
johnxRST38h, already commented on it when you posted. don't really want to argue about it18:51
KhertanStskeeps: yep ... but i don't want to bought an other microsd as i have plenty of useless sd card18:52
RST38hjohnx: Who told you I was going to argue about it? :)18:52
* b-man need to go, bye :)18:52
*** b-man has quit IRC18:52
johnxRST38h, my original comment was something like "newsflash: dumb people are dumb, the register is a troll. story at 11." :)18:52
johnxRST38h, and also that you could just as well do s/dell with ubuntu/mac/ and have the same story18:53
Khertanso i ll try to install it tomorrow ... :)18:53
RST38hjohnx: oh, I have seen such stories with Macs, although they may have been on Onion :)18:54
Khertana question if i format my sd card to ext2 ... when i mount it on linux does it ll be see as a mass storage and mount it ?18:54
Khertan(i mean when i connect my nit to a computer running a gnu/linux os)18:55
StskeepsKhertan: if you use our installer it gives you a 50mb fat32 partition in the beginning, so it'll see it as mass storage18:55
Stskeepsit would actually see the ext2 too i guess18:55
Stskeepsit's just partitions, so :)18:55
KhertanStskeeps: yep but as you know ... usb things are always strange18:56
StskeepsKhertan: yeah :P18:56
Khertanlike usb hard drive ...18:56
Khertani still not understand why usb was so used ...18:56
*** alterego has quit IRC18:56
Khertanthere are other great way than that ... like firewire :)18:57
*** qwerty12 has joined #maEMO18:57
Khertanor eSCSI18:57
*** rsalveti has joined #maemo18:57
*** sergio_ has joined #maemo18:58
*** sergio has quit IRC18:58
johnxKhertan, because usb ports were on everyone's computer since 199818:58
johnxnever even saw a machine with eSCSI and firewire everyone seems to be a much more recent phenomemon. though, the tablet acts very normal in usb disk mode. just like a card reader18:59
johnxs/everyone/everywhere/ <- fail18:59
glassdunno really anyone who used firewire for anything else than old ipods and dv cameras18:59
*** housetier has quit IRC19:00
* RST38h just used 1394 a few days ago19:00
johnxthe one place where firewire wins hands down is the mac 'target disk mode'19:01
Khertanjohnx > i have firewire since 1995 on a mac computer19:04
Khertanmaybe this is that19:04
RST38hjohnx: What a wonderful use for a Mac!19:04
* RST38h hides19:04
johnxRST38h, admining macbooks / macbook pros is like the most trouble free job I ever had19:05
*** Guest3649_045 has joined #maemo19:05
RST38hjohnx: with features like that no wonder19:05
johnxRST38h, yeah, mass multicast imaging was awesome. and target disk mode was awesome. only pain I ever had was making them sync to WinMo phones (don't ask me, that wasn't my call)19:07
Khertan(don't ask me, that wasn't my call) .... haha !19:08
johnxand honestly, I spent as much time supporting two freaking windows boxen as I did 30+ Macs in three different locations19:09
RST38hMotorola kaputs another 4000 people19:10
johnxso no razr v3adskg this year?19:10
*** Guest3649_045 has quit IRC19:10
Stskeeps4000? jesus19:11
RST38hjohnx: they still have a lineup of some kind19:11
johnxSony isn't doing so hot either19:11
RST38hjohnx: mostly budget phones with smartphone stuff centered around not yet ready android models19:11
RST38hjohnx: but with losses like these, who knows?19:11
RST38hwazd: Around?19:12
johnxRST38h, yeah...will be an interesting year (in the same sense as "May you live in interesting times.")19:13
*** frade has quit IRC19:13
wazdRST38h: <- svg file, check if it's ok (Gameboy icon)19:14
*** sergio_ has quit IRC19:15
Stskeepsjohnx: what's your status btw? (not sure what you're working on :P)19:16
johnxactually, was just gonna ask: anything I should be doing?19:16
johnxI could look at powerlaunch, but there's questions as to how it fits in with OHM, right? and did you already poke at icon stuff?19:16
*** b-man has joined #maemo19:16
wazdRST38h: on small resolutions it still looks near photoreal :)19:17
Jaffai18n? ;-)19:17
Stskeepsjohnx: dbus i'd say19:17
johnxdbus what?19:17
Stskeepsoh. powered = mce and powerlaunch is seperate19:17
Stskeepsi think19:18
wazdStupid moto19:18
wazdAndroid was their real chance19:18
Stskeepsjohnx: erm, give me a sec while i get a sandwich and think :)19:18
johnxwazd, don't count them out yet. look what palm did :)19:18
* Stskeeps is not on a balanced diet today19:18
wazdThey have awesome hardware designers and totaly sick software idiots19:18
RST38hwazd: check this out:
RST38hwazd: it may be of interest (no programming involved too)19:19
* b-man is never on a balanced diet19:19
wazdRST38h: oh! Thanks!)19:19
* wazd interested19:19
RST38hwazd: got the svg, thanks. checking how it renders19:20
qwerty12Stskeeps, does vte9 actually compile in your sdk? I'm getting an anal error on
wazdRST38h: btw do you know any host that can show svg right in the browser19:20
wazdRST38h: is sucks hardly19:21
RST38hwazd: you mean online svg->bmp converter?19:21
lcukRST38h, notice the picture shows a square widget, however they want a postbox thin widget in rules19:21
RST38hYour FireFox browser will show .svg files directly afaik19:21
RST38hlcuk: it is Nokia19:21
qwerty12I think he means a host that will show the image in the webpage without you having to download it to see it19:21
RST38hlcuk: (if you know what I mean)19:22
*** rsalveti has quit IRC19:22
*** eichi has joined #maemo19:22
* RST38h will do new VGB-Maemo package first19:23
wazdRST38h: No, I need some file hosting with direct file access19:23
*** ab has quit IRC19:23
Stskeepsqwerty12: i suspected not19:24
Stskeepsqwerty12: gdk problems so19:24
Stskeepswhen linking to it19:24
*** hannesw has quit IRC19:25
qwerty12ah, I've done a quick merge of the maemo changes from vte4 to vte9, would like to see what changes I'd have to make for it to compile19:25
wazdwhoa, that widget competition is definitely for me :)19:25
*** matt_c has joined #maemo19:25
*** aantn has quit IRC19:25
*** aantn has joined #maemo19:25
RST38hwazd: Ok, then I would suggest Google Pages19:26
*** Grackle has joined #maemo19:26
*** summatusmentis has left #maemo19:27
Stskeepsjohnx: i guess icon theme is a bit pressing right now, but it might drive you insane19:27
Stskeepsgood place to start is file chooser19:28
johnxStskeeps, just a question of seeing what icons are missing, and finding a good dfsg compliant icon to replace them with, right?19:28
Stskeepsjohnx: well, i think the icons are actually there19:29
Stskeepsthey're just not picked up19:29
RST38hShit, why are all gnome programs so large? Inkscape with dependencies takes 85MB19:29
johnxnot the right name? not in the right place? or something about the index for the theme?19:29
johnxRST38h, compare to the size of illustrator19:30
* b-man thinks about installing the new mer rescue menu in ubuntu jaunty :)19:30
Stskeepsjohnx: that's what i couldn't figure out :)19:30
Stskeepsit complains of icon size 0 for instance19:31
johnxok, well, I'll at least do some detective work on it then19:31
johnxactually sounds fun :)19:31
Stskeeps.xsession-errors is a good place to start, and the background image chooser19:31
*** matt_c has quit IRC19:31
johnxah, also had an idea: setting up swap as part first-boot-wizard19:32
Stskeepsthumbs up, scan for swap partitions or something :P19:32
RST38hjohnx: But I am not even installing illustrator :)19:32
Stskeeps.. or make a file, hmm19:32
johnxscan for swap partition, then offer to make a swap file of a certain size if none found and RAM <64MB?19:32
* b-man also thinks about changing the rescue menu artwork and modifing the splash screen for a ubuntu logo :)19:32
RST38hjohnx: btw windoze version of inkscape is for some reason only 20+MB19:33
Stskeepsjohnx: fair enough19:33
johnxRST38h, it's because linux is tehsuxx0r :)19:33
mgedminnooo, it's lunix that's tehsuxx0r19:33
mgedminlinux's evil twin19:34
Stskeepsb-man: hopefully ubuntu wraps into mer nicely though, so we have a mer baseline and easy ability to include more ubuntu like stuff though19:34
*** florian has quit IRC19:34
Stskeepsso we dont need to run two dists19:34
RST38hFor real loonies!19:35
StskeepsRST38h: i'd be tempted to call it that..19:35
RST38hSts: it improves with time, sowly19:35
*** andre___ has quit IRC19:35
b-manStskeeps: verry true, ubuntu and mer stuff seems to get allong verry well ;)19:35
*** andre___ has joined #maemo19:36
RST38hStill I would prefer FreeBSD community (if there remained any) - grown bearded people with day jobs19:36
johnxRST38h, are you saying inkscape for windows is a 20MB download or a 20MB install?19:36
RST38hjohnx: I think it installs to something in the 20-30MB range19:36
RST38hbut it is easy to check, wait19:36
RST38hNaaah, 77MB =(19:37
*** lfelipe is now known as lfelipe[AWAY]19:37
pupnikbig thank you for that beautifully fast vgba RST38h19:37
johnxRST38h, and the download is 33MB :)19:37
RST38hpupnik: Playing Final Fantasy Tactics again? =)19:38
pupnikthat october release was a real treat19:38
RST38hjohnx: weirdly, Linux download (with all deps) is smaller19:38
pupniknah, brain-numbing rpgs19:38
RST38hpupnik: the speed surprised myself19:38
johnxRST38h, inkscape for windows prolly includes gtk19:38
*** lfelipe[AWAY] is now known as lfelipe19:38
RST38hjohnx: and most likely a lot of other crap, won't be surprised to find an embedded perl or python there19:38
pupnikdid you release the display-writing part of the code RST38h ?19:39
pupnikwhatever you did for res change / blits19:39
* wazd came up with widget19:39
johnxRST38h, ah, didn't you do some new work on vgba for a different ARM platform recently? does getting those changes into the maemo version look difficult?19:39
* b-man decides to wipe out his old trashed ubuntu install and set up a new one - wish me luck19:39
RST38hjohnx: There weren't any changes really19:39
*** zommi has quit IRC19:40
RST38hjohnx: and I also did a MIPS port, too19:40
pupnik beautiful pictures of ice crystals in the air19:40
johnxRST38h, aaah, the other ARM chip is just running it faster than our omap2420?19:40
wazdIs there any list of current n97 widgets?19:40
Stskeepsb-man: did you fix the issue? ;)19:40
RST38hjohnx: About the same speed I would say. It is the same core and similar clock19:40
*** aantn has quit IRC19:40
*** aantn has joined #maemo19:41
johnxRST38h, but you were getting 45fps and I'm only seeing 15 :P19:41
RST38hjohnx: there is a trick to that19:41
RST38hjohnx: what you are seeing is the screen update counter. for Maemo VGBA, multiply it by 3.19:41
johnxsound stuff?19:41
b-mannot yet (having annoying issues with variables and qotations in bootmenu item creation) :p19:42
AFB|AwayI want this guys family or friends
johnxerr...ok, but it feels like about half to 2/3 speed19:42
Stskeepsb-man: post the tar.gz?19:42
AFB|Awayopps wrong link lol19:42
RST38hI can actually modify Emulib a bit so that it shows the actual frame count, but there will be a few problems in other apps19:42
RST38hjohnx: Correct. It is doing 45fps for you with the full speed being 60fps19:42
*** AFB|Away is now known as Andrewfblack19:42
johnxRST38h, aah, gotcha. guess I do need that pandora afterall :)19:43
AndrewfblackAnyone use Synergy on there desktops to share a mouse and keyboard on more then one computer?19:43
b-manStskeeps: yes, i've uploaded all of the sorce from each release to
RST38hjohnx: You can easily compute your own frame count by taking  agame with the timer (F-Zero etc) and counting how many actual seconds it takes for the game timer to count 30 seconds19:43
*** aantn has quit IRC19:44
johnxi don't really mind whether it's realtime or not but things like metroid just feel sluggish. I mean, nothing to be done about it. it really just needs faster hardware19:45
JaffaRoll on Spring19:45
mavhchow can an n810 be an unwanted gift? madness19:45
suihkulokkiwhere do you need VGBA when you have   ? :)19:46
JaffaIf you've already got 10?19:46
Andrewfblackmaybe he's not a nerd?19:46
RST38hsuihkulokki: have you got these for each of 2000+ GBA games? =)19:47
b-man?????? 0_o19:47
*** user_ has joined #maemo19:47
*** user_ has left #maemo19:48
*** kimitake_______2 has joined #maemo19:48
johnxkinda skitchy on an a64 3000+19:48
qwerty12suihkulokki, mario!? It's all about doom: :P19:49
RST38hjavascript doom?19:49
RST38hhow low have we fallen19:49
Stskeepsb-man: quick code review: MODULE=mbcache jbd ext319:49
Stskeepsb-man: MODULE="mbcache jbd ext3"19:49
* RST38h ready to mangle wazd's icon now =)19:50
b-manhehe, ok :)19:50
Stskeepsecho "ITEM_NAME="Mer on $INST card, $PTN"" > $FILE19:50
Stskeeps -> echo "ITEM_NAME=\"Mer on $INST card, $PTN\"" > $FILE19:51
Stskeepsand so forth19:51
*** mrp has joined #maemo19:51
pupnikany chance of getting linux on n97 someday?19:53
*** kimitake_______2 has quit IRC19:53
*** kimitake_______2 has joined #maemo19:53
Stskeepspupnik: ask a nokia coder very nicely at next summit..19:53
johnxpupnik, ask them with a frozen trout :)19:54
qwerty12Give them vodka19:54
Corsacand beer19:54
johnxI can at least get you a 640x360 layout now :)19:54
*** mrp has quit IRC19:54
*** aloisiojr has quit IRC19:54
b-manand cigarettes19:54
*** fab has joined #maemo19:55
pupniki feel kinda bad, since symbian's predecessor was so nice on the psions19:55
pupnikbtw anybody want a slightly busted netbook for parts?19:55
* b-man starts the ubuntu jaunty bootstrap prosess19:55
johnxpupnik, a couple years ago I would have jumped at it, but I stick to stuff that runs 2.6 these days...19:56
pupniknice textures19:56
*** aloisiojr has joined #maemo19:56
pupnikjohnx: no progress on kernel for netbooks eh?19:56
Andrewfblackbetter then doom
johnxpupnik, there's some strongarm progress, but not much. 2.6 is ~80% on the zaurus 5500 and that was where it had the most support19:56
johnxthere's just too many cheap, powerful ARM machines with more modern CPUs19:57
*** christefano has joined #maemo19:57
pupnikit'd be a dream if one could drop an omap3530 board into that case19:57
b-manhow fast was the zaurus's cpu btw?19:57
johnxpupnik, I thought the same about a beagleboard in a zaurus :)19:58
RST38hSorry for asking stupif questions but how the hell do I change canvas size in Inkscape?19:58
johnxb-man, the latest zauruses were a 416MHz Xscale PXA270, but our 400MHz OMAP2420 is lots faster...not to mention the zaurus only had 64MB of RAM...19:59
*** hellwolf has quit IRC19:59
RST38hjohnx: Memory performance + cache sizes19:59
johnxRST38h, strangely sbc is faster on the zaurus...dunno what that means...20:00
*** dougt__ has joined #maemo20:00
RST38hjohnx: What is sbc? The A2DP audio format?20:00
qwerty12johnx, I blame the blizzard! :P20:01
RST38hwell, the codec would be a smallish piece of code running in a loop20:01
RST38hin other words, it is completely cacheable and only goes to memory for input data20:01
RST38h+ I remember XScale having special instructions for codecs20:02
johnxpupnik, yeah, 2.4.27 seems to be the latest I can find. so that rules out modern distros without a lot of hacking... *sigh*20:02
*** madha2 has quit IRC20:02
*** christefano has quit IRC20:02
johnxRST38h, yeah, iwmmxt. possibly gcc can automatically make use of it?20:02
RST38hwazd: is it possible to change that svg canvas size so that it has only slim top/bottom margins? About the same size as the actual icon would have?20:03
*** dougt has quit IRC20:03
RST38hjohnx: don't think so but codecs are often coded by hand20:03
*** AD-N770 has quit IRC20:04
*** rsalveti has joined #maemo20:05
johnxpupnik, looks like people working on psion 5mx support bought themselves n800s :D20:05
b-manqwerty12: no school today? :p20:05
*** christefano has joined #maemo20:05
*** notcoolbuthot has quit IRC20:06
qwerty12b-man, yes, of course :P. I came back about 3 hours ago (~6:00 PM here)20:06
RST38hwazd: oh one more: make the canvas square (sorry but I can't make it in Inkscape for some reason ;()20:06
b-manoh, duh20:06
* b-man calls himself an idot20:07
*** Vulcanis has joined #maemo20:08
b-manqwerty12: school was canceld for me because it was too cold here :p20:08
qwerty12b-man, damn, some people have all the luck... :P20:08
b-manbut it's not fun dealing with sub-zero weather eather :p20:10
wazdRST38h: sure20:11
*** dougt__ has quit IRC20:11
*** dougt has joined #maemo20:11
johnxpupnik, wait, is that a netbook pro? as in, an xscale?20:11
wazdRST38h: I'll enter widget contest with my uni-search idea :)20:11
RST38hwazd: Notice that Google may be already there and also the Nokia Search guys20:11
pupnikjohnx: no, regular netbook20:12
* RST38h failed resizing the canvas: even doing it in the text editor does not work20:12
pupnikwith the unreadable 640x480 screen :/20:12
pupniki did have linux running on it20:12
*** avs has quit IRC20:12
RST38hwazd: also the svg includes some MIMEd jpeg data - not sure what it is bu deleting it seems to work20:13
johnxpupnik, I guess I'll wait to see how ARM based "psion doesn't want them to be called netbooks" turn out :)20:14
*** fab has quit IRC20:14
* RST38h still thinks we should call them "comlogs"20:14
RST38hAt least the ones that can't be called "cheap laptops"20:15
wazdRST38h: ah, maybe that's because I had a jpg in there, do draw from :)20:15
johnxRST38h, someone came up with MultiMedia Internet Thingy (MMIT or maybe just MIT) and it's starting to grow on me20:15
lcukwazd, they only want a picture20:16
pupniki have to sell an acer aspire one with 9-cell batt, if there are any takers in germany/europe20:16
RST38hjohnx: abbreviations are bad.20:16
RST38hbut there is always padlet :)20:16
*** fab has joined #maemo20:17
mavhcnetwork internet tablet20:17
johnxwon't matter anyways in 3-4 years. We'll have phones and laptops again with all this PDA/NIT/MID/UMPC stuff behind us20:17
RST38hjohnx: something to play with while standing in line after free soup =)20:18
mavhcit's handy having the tablet not be my phone so it doesn't matter if I run the battery down to 020:18
*** christefano_ has joined #maemo20:19
johnx~lart current battery tech20:19
johnxinfobot left?20:19
mavhcwanna get some ultracapacitor tech on20:20
*** zap has joined #maemo20:20
johnxwhere's our portable 20year radio-isotope generators?20:20
mavhcin space20:20
*** qwerty12 is now known as infob0t20:20
johnxand russian lighthouses20:20
infob0tMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, current battery tech !20:20
mavhcreally? cool20:20
*** infob0t is now known as qwerty1220:20
pupnikhitachi has a plug-n-play container-sized nuclear power plant20:21
pupnikno maintenance20:21
mavhcwhat sized container?20:21
johnxpupnik, pocketable?20:21
*** mgedmin has quit IRC20:23
wazdok, my applet now featuring "coco de mer" request :D20:23
RST38hok, I have got vgb icons into required size!20:23
zenvoidI would have some worries in putting a nuclear power plant in the pocket of my pants...20:24
*** christefano has quit IRC20:24
mavhczenvoid: your kids will have superpowers20:24
qwerty12My balls!20:24
lcukzenvoid, don't be worried, we know contact with radiation makes things grow20:24
johnxzenvoid, have you seen a Li-ion battery catch on fire?20:24
*** mxttie has quit IRC20:24
lcukjust because you might end up with 3 heads and uniballs is secondary20:25
RST38hwazd: the original one looks better though =(20:25
johnxlcuk, there were some great radioactivity-for-your-health hoaxes when it was first discovered, before that whole "it causes cancer" thing20:25
lcukjohnx, they dont catch fire, they vent with plasma20:25
zenvoidjohnx: ugh, I think I will carry my n810 in the pocket in a backpack :)20:25
lcukmake sure you dont leave mouldy fruit in there with it20:25
wazdRST38h: what? icon?)20:26
*** lizardo has quit IRC20:26
johnxgreatest thread of all time20:26
pupnikthe BP4L battery is pretty good with number of charge cycles20:26
pupnikseems a bit weaker after a year, but still strong20:26
johnxpupnik, mine's starting to wear down after almost 220:26
*** lizardo has joined #maemo20:27
pupniki'm beginning to suspect that getting a quality battery (original nokia) is the right choice20:27
*** gregorovius has joined #maemo20:29
RST38hwazd: Yep. When scaling down, the large icon gets antialiased to invisibility20:29
b-manjohnx; do you think it's safe to install first-boot-wizard in ubuntu jaunty?20:29
lcukjohnx, stop watching HD porn movies on it then20:29
RST38hwazd: I will try scaling down the svg instead20:29
johnxb-man, you want first boot wizard and auto-startx? planning to not use gdm?20:29
johnxb-man, I think it should work, but it's pretty easy to just do it manually too. It's mostly for new users20:30
b-manno :)20:30
johnxfirst-boot-wizard is run from auto-startx20:30
RST38hwazd: actually, here is a better idea:20:30
johnxyou can install it with gdm but you'll never see it :)20:31
lcukwhos played with QT on this platform?  hows it do performance wise, is it still as sluggish as gtk (due to the x11 methods) or does it sidetrack all that and work quickly?20:31
pupnikany bets on whether n9x0 will have some kind of video-out?20:31
*** _berto_ has quit IRC20:31
*** lpotter has joined #maemo20:31
johnxpupnik, I'm betting it will through a "Nokia A/V connector"20:31
lcukwell we have a nokia a/v connector now20:31
RST38hwazd: Make you canvas exactly 88x88 pixels and place icon there exactly as it should be seen in the actual icon rectangle (i.e. with a bit of space at the top bottom)20:31
lcukfor all the good it does ;)20:31
Jaffapupnik: I'm not holding my breath20:32
RST38hwazd: and let me check out the result =)20:32
pupnikwhat do you mean lcuk20:32
lcukjaffa, its a LOT more likely if its using the default framebuffer on the omap and is just wired naturally20:32
johnxlcuk, but this time they just need to run some wire and copy the driver from pandora :)20:32
Jaffalcuk: true20:32
RST38hI think somebody from Nokia already promised video out on N9x0, no?20:32
lcuki would imagine its easier to implement than to leave off to be honest20:32
RST38hAlso, both 5800 and N97 have video outs20:32
Jaffapupnik: "Nokia A/V connector" is how the manual refers to the headphone/mic port20:33
johnxlcuk, easier to wire it to the A/V connector than to ground out those pins? :)20:33
RST38hyou probably do need a few extra components when wiring it out20:33
johnxRST38h, but other omap2 phones have video out, IIRC. it's just our LCD controller situation ...20:33
lcukjohnx, im betting the reference boards all have it and it will be more complex to alter the board and ensure it doesnt get strange anomalies than just to use it as is20:34
pupnikwould be pretty slick to be able to watch vids on tvs - (visiting friends etc)20:34
*** qwerty12_N800 has joined #maemo20:34
JaffaThe existing Nokia devices, is it just composite?20:35
RST38hjohnx: it is also Nokia's idea of product differentiation20:35
lcukjohnx, our LCD controller is just carry over from the 770 design20:35
RST38hjohnx: if Nokia marketing decides that it is "not a visual media device" you do not get the video out20:35
RST38hjohnx: example: E7120:35
JaffaVideo out fits with the summit mutterings about 3wGB storage and a real focus on multimedia, to live up to the nseries moniker20:36
*** qwerty12 has quit IRC20:36
johnxlcuk, err, I think it's different. and the omap2 can't drive 800x480 directly anyways, right?20:36
lcukyeah exactly20:36
lcukbut its the same principle as the 770 used20:36
lcukexternal framebuffer20:36
johnxah, yes, just a worse implementation20:36
RST38hJaffa: I hope so...20:36
lcukthe dpad is nice where i use it20:37
RST38hjohnx: how dare you to tell nokia what to include!20:37
*** mrp has joined #maemo20:37
Jaffajohnx: It's got a d-pad the same as an N810, I bet20:37
*** mrp has quit IRC20:37
johnxJaffa, nah, the trend has been for them to get worse20:37
* RST38h suspects that we will get a buttonless iphone-like brick =)20:37
lcukheh if it has im betting roope curses it every day :D20:37
*** Omegamoon has joined #maemo20:37
RST38hthat would be hilarious20:37
lcukRST38h, we have one of those now with 810 :) it just has hidden stuff20:38
Jaffalcuk: he's already said he considers the N810's as just cursor keys20:38
RST38hlcuk: no I mean no hidden stuff!20:38
JaffaI also bet it'll have a keyboard - hopefully better than the N810s20:38
johnxlcuk, yeah you gotta watch out for that when drinking in certain bars, 'cause ... wait? ah right the n810.20:38
*** Meizirkki has quit IRC20:38
*** Grackle has quit IRC20:38
lcukRST38h, the dream of an ibrick is bad, it was why i didnt get one - fully touch interfaces really excell on large format devices20:38
lcukbut i will not give up screen space for a keyboard ever again20:39
Jaffame neither20:39
johnxthey also suck for 'no look' use, but that's not as important for a tablet I guess as a dedicated mp3 player or phone20:39
RST38hlove reading those PDFs? ;)20:39
lcukok, how do we market and sell a slide on bt keyboard20:39
RST38hlcuk: with boobs.20:40
johnxlcuk, talk to the guys who made a slide-on d-pad and buttons for the iphone20:40
JaffaConnection on BT keyboards isn't as convenient20:40
RST38hlcuk: you can market ANYTHING with boobs20:40
lcukno, the device will have a nipple (like the pre) :D20:40
RST38hperfect, perfect...20:40
lcuksearch google images for "coco de mer"20:40
lcukjohnx, did you have that stored in favorites? you found it awful quickly20:42
lcukeither that, or is it your homepage/20:42
* RST38h knew "coco" was going to mean something obscene20:42
lcuk:D i got stretching and scaling of my widgets working last night :$20:43
lcuk:O and other stuff id forgotten about20:43
RST38hjohnx: stop watching that yaoi anime NOW.20:43
johnxRST38h, yaoi? what's that?20:43
qwerty12_N800RST38h, yeah, I wonder why kellogs coco pops cereal is brown...20:44
*** Zic has quit IRC20:44
RST38hqwerty: it is cocoa, afaik :)20:44
qwerty12_N800I hope so *grin*20:44
RST38hjohnx: Make sure you check "demographics" part, it is the most amusing20:45
johnxRST38h, heh. was playing dumb, but the funny thing is: I only ever heard about it from US fangirls. never once here.20:45
*** gnuton has joined #maemo20:46
*** rjelari has quit IRC20:46
RST38hjohnx: I wouldn't know if I didn't read an article on the history of anime20:46
johnxRST38h, though I guess here it hides under the general term Dojin and people (surprise, surprise) aren't really as forthcoming about babbling all about it to strangers as american fan[boys|girls]20:47
*** Sargun has joined #maemo20:47
* RST38h only seen US anime fans once when his path crossed some anime convention in Baltimore20:47
zenvoidin spanish "coco" is a coconut, maybe it is somewhat related to the results in google image search :)20:48
* b-man has a frend who is obsessed in naruto ond chowder :p20:48
*** punkass has quit IRC20:48
johnxin Japan coco is a chain of restaurants serving curry :)20:48
*** punkass has joined #maemo20:49
wazdRST38h: can you receive a file?)20:50
RST38hwazd: does not seem to work :( simply email to luarvique@gmail.com20:50
wazdRST38h: sent20:51
wazdThey have kind of moderation at this contest I think20:52
wazdSince my widget still isn't there :)20:52
RST38hoh yes, much better20:53
wazdRST38h: the problem is in borders thickness, it's not resizing with whole image20:54
*** alextreem has joined #maemo20:55
*** eocanha has quit IRC20:56
*** Shadow_M has joined #maemo20:56
RST38hwazd: just bump it up, it is ok20:57
RST38hwazd: Can you make the LCD-to-buttons and buttons-to-bottom distances a bit less so that the whole image looks shorter and a bit thicker?20:57
*** t_s_o has quit IRC20:58
RST38hwazd: It may violate real proportions a little bit but will allow me to make bigger icons :)20:58
*** b-man has quit IRC20:58
RST38hthe ones rendered from 88x88 svg are pretty decent btw but the above trick will help making them more detailed20:58
wazdRST38h: ok20:59
*** alextreem has quit IRC21:00
*** murrayc has quit IRC21:01
wazdRST38h: if you're not a crazy gameboy geek you'll not even notice)21:06
*** Meiz_n810 has joined #maemo21:07
*** `Mace has quit IRC21:07
RST38hwazd: lots of people notice this stuff as "there is something wrong but can't pinpoint what"21:08
johnxRST38h, and those people get WONTFIXed?21:09
RST38hDon't think it matters for icons though :)21:09
RST38hjohnx: No, if you want to stall those, you do it with NEEDINFO21:09
wazdRST38h: gone to your e-mail21:09
RST38hjohnx: But I am sure timeless will know and tell you all about this :)21:09
RST38hwazd: got it21:10
johnxRST38h, fixed in fremantle :) heh...some of the maemo bugs need "fixed in mer"21:10
*** richieeee721 has left #maemo21:10
*** hannesw has joined #maemo21:10
RST38hjohnx: I already proposed the FUCKOFF resolution21:10
*** housetier has joined #maemo21:10
qwerty12_N800andre___, we want a FIXEDINMERMOFO resolution :p21:11
RST38hjohnx: got a more pressing issue though: damn Modest continues to throw password set dialogs at me21:11
RST38hlooks like a bug =(21:11
RST38hjohnx: IDOIDO21:11
*** b-man has joined #maemo21:11
RST38hjohnx: but one of my accounts is POP321:12
johnxRST38h, you gave in?! that case I would say check to make sure the password is actually getting stored21:12
johnxthough, I've actually been seeing similar behavior in spicebird (and formerly in thunderbird) on the desktop21:13
johnxalso, how regular is it?21:13
RST38hjohnx: well, gmail uses imap, that is why21:14
RST38hjohnx: pretty regular, daily, seems to be dependent on wifi connection quality21:14
johnxaaaah, odd. here's the weirdest part: on the desktop I get this asked for the password to my gmail imap account ... but it works flawlessly on the tablet no matter what21:15
johnxsame account21:15
*** avs has joined #maemo21:15
johnxI wonder what the server could be returning to make modest think the password is wrong21:15
*** aantn has joined #maemo21:16
johnxmaybe complaining about some malformed request and modest just saying "oh, must be the password."21:16
andre___qwerty12_N800, you can have a keyword if you want to :)21:16
RST38hwazd: thanks, it is perfect!21:17
RST38hjohnx: the weird part is that once it starts happening ir continues until I reenter the password21:17
qwerty12_N800andre___, :)21:17
RST38hjohnx: although the entered password is correct and I am reentering the same thing21:17
andre___qwerty12_N800, well, dunno. if you think it's helpful, just say :)21:17
johnxRST38h, can you verify that when it asks you for the password the one it has stored is correct?21:18
*** rzr is now known as rZr21:18
* b-man starts installing base packages in ubuntu jaunty - i hope that keyboard problem does not come up again... (using better install prosess than before)21:19
RST38hjohnx: it is asterisked, so unless there is a way to reveal it in gtk...21:19
qwerty12_N800andre___, thank you, but I was joking but maybe Stskeeps and/or johnx would like that :)21:19
johnxRST38h, well it has to be *stored* somewhere on your tablet ...21:19
b-manr2d2rogers: apt-get moo :)21:20
r2d2rogerswhat's news? <G>21:20
TrueJournalsjohnx: I believe modest passwords are stored in gconf...21:20
*** andre__ has joined #maemo21:20
andre__grmpf. reconnects...21:21
andre__qwerty12_N800, well, dunno. if you think a keyword might be helpful, just say :)21:21
TrueJournalsjohnx: Yes, they're in /apps/modest/server_accounts/(account name)21:21
*** qwerty12_N800 has quit IRC21:22
johnxRST38h, there's your answer. check there after it complains21:22
*** qwerty12_N800 has joined #maemo21:22
johnxthanks TrueJournals :)21:22
TrueJournalsNo problem21:22
*** sisto has quit IRC21:23
RST38hTrueJournals,johnx: thanks!21:23
RST38hpackaging VGB with the new icons21:24
qwerty12_N800johnx, i don't like that resolution :p21:24
*** lardman has joined #maemo21:24
johnxqwerty12_N800, that's because you're not a team player :D21:25
johnxand isn't it still your turn to be the channe's bot? :P21:25
*** qwerty12_N800 is now known as qwertybot21:25
qwertybotbeing in a team forces me to meet deadlines :D21:26
qwertybotjohnx, I do not understand "fix-bugs".21:26
johnxah, well. was worth a try21:27
*** christefano_ is now known as christefano21:27
*** chelli has joined #maemo21:30
Stskeepsandre__: re own keyword, maybe when we're more structured :)21:30
* qwertybot wishes was updated and hopes he gets the swearing prize21:31
johnxheh...I just like that qwerty12 *and* qwerty12_N800 are on the list of most active users O_o21:33
TrueJournals"Nobody beat anyone up. Everybody was friendly."21:34
TrueJournalsWe should fix that...21:34
* TrueJournals punches TrueJournals21:34
* qwertybot beats up TrueJournals 21:34
johnx~fishslap TrueJournals21:34
qwertybotHappy now?21:34
* TrueJournals unplugs qwertybot21:34
* RST38h finds it mildly reassuring that there is a miniature ssh server hidden somewhere in the flat, available 24 hours a day21:34
lcuk"\@/ gah why is there no poweroff for this device"21:34
qwertybotNooo, I've left the matrix!21:35
RST38hSecret undeground lair of sorts21:35
qwertybotI hate you Cypher/TrueJournals :p21:35
*** qwertybot is now known as qwerty12_N80021:35
*** andre___ has quit IRC21:35
lcukhiya tj21:36
*** aantn has quit IRC21:36
qwerty12_N800Someone should bribe mgedmin for the logs from povbot :)21:36
lcuktheres other logs :)21:37
lcukive got 55mb since 15jan21:37
qwerty12_N800mgedmin's ones are the best :P21:37
lcukof course they are21:37
lcukmgedmin has a hot bot21:37
johnxStskeeps, you're right. icons are a mystery21:38
johnxtime to break out strace21:38
qwerty12_N800povbot, I'll give you vodka for the logs.21:38
povbotqwerty12_N800: Error: "I'll" is not a valid command.21:38
qwerty12_N800Fuck you21:38
Stskeepspovbot, 1+2?21:38
povbotStskeeps: Error: "1+2?" is not a valid command.21:38
Stskeepspovbot, 1+221:38
povbotStskeeps: Error: "1+2" is not a valid command.21:38
Stskeepsjohnx: ltrace maybe too and dbg packages21:38
TrueJournalspovbot, help21:38
povbotTrueJournals: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.21:38
wazdRST38h: what's better, to draw high detailed gameboy or to start to draw other consoles?21:38
TrueJournalsHmm... that really didn't help :-\21:39
johnxStskeeps, I was just going to watch for files not being found21:39
Stskeepsjohnx: ah, true21:39
RST38hwazd: I think it is better to start with other consoles21:41
RST38hwazd: even at 88x88 pixels, it is difficult to see details21:41
wazdRST38h: ok21:42
RST38hwazd: there is a couple of things that can improve situation (using more contrast shades of gray, framing the whole GB in a 1-pixel frame of contrast color, etc) but they are all minor21:42
lcukRST38h, this is 32*32 and seems to have details21:43
lcukwhy are you having trouble with yours cos isnt it bigger21:43
RST38hlcuk: ! it is actually a cool idea =)21:43
*** sisto has joined #maemo21:43
RST38hwazd: we can rotate it ~45o clockwise and fill the whole rectangle! =)21:44
RST38hit will probably look bad at 26x26 resolution though21:44
*** krutt has quit IRC21:46
wazdRST38h: well, I think it's pretty recognizable now)21:51
wazdRST38h: don't know how it looks on symbian screen, but on my laptop it's looking good :)21:51
RST38hwazd: it is recognizable all right, just thinking that more details will not show up at these resolutions21:52
Pavlovi/win 5821:52
* RST38h did not try symbian yet, but there is a .deb for interested people21:52
RST38hmaemo deb that is21:52
Stskeepsjohnx: saw zenvoid posted his theme earlier btw?21:53
johnxah! he released it?21:53
*** Cwiiis has quit IRC21:53
*** eichi has quit IRC21:54
Stskeepszenvoid: btw you have a .dsc but not tar.gz for the theme :)21:54
*** t0h has quit IRC21:54
wazdRST38h: now it's time for GBA I guess?21:55
*** t0h has joined #maemo21:55
johnxhmmm...with a solid title bar I wonder if I can get away with fewer changes to make it work at 640x48021:55
johnxBTW, maemopad plays nice on the zaurus for the most part :D21:55
*** briglia has joined #maemo21:55
*** thopiekar has joined #maemo21:56
*** briglia has left #maemo21:56
Stskeepsjohnx: maemopad is unthemed at my mer21:56
Stskeepsi dunno why21:56
*** thopiekar has left #maemo21:56
RST38hwazd: yea, it would be a logical next step21:56
wazdRST38h: what's better, clamshell or brick?)21:56
johnxStskeeps, what happens if you launch from roxterm?21:56
Stskeepsjohnx: well since HIM doesn't work for me in roxterm..21:57
johnxno usb keyboard?21:57
RST38hwazd: the original brick of course! clamshell is for wussies21:57
Stskeepsjohnx: nop21:57
Stskeeps(i know, im an atypical maemo hacker..)21:57
Stskeepsi dont even think i own a usb keyboard anymore21:57
wazdRST38h: thought so too :)21:57
RST38hwazd: I do think rotating it 30-45o will help pushing in more detail21:58
Shadow_Mdoes anyone else get double key entry when using vnc on the n81021:58
wazdRST38h: at smaller resolutions that angle will ruin whole image)21:58
wazdRST38h: it will look like a puddle of pixels)21:59
RST38hit will =(21:59
b-manhi Shadow_M21:59
RST38hunless you make it exactly 45o of course21:59
johnxStskeeps, I'll try in a sec. launched from roxterm on the zaurus it's themed, but has a couple glitches. might be resolution or might be sapwood :/21:59
Shadow_Mhello b-man21:59
*** caio1982 has quit IRC22:01
*** vivijim has quit IRC22:01
*** lpotter has quit IRC22:02
wazdRST38h: well, since it's vector then we can play with angles all day long :)22:02
Shadow_Mb-man, have you had expperience with samba22:02
b-manno, unfortunately :(22:03
RST38hwazd: naah, of course it is a vector, but once it is rendered to a bitmap, only 3 angles make sense - 0o, 45o, and 90o22:04
RST38hThe rest will look like shit (you are right)22:04
johnxif I'm understanding this sapwood is what's actually going out the FS and loading icons, right?22:04
* b-man is allmost 2/3 done with re-installing ubuntu jaunty on his N80022:05
b-manfast, compared to last time :)22:06
* Stskeeps makes another cup of coffee22:06
johnxah yes, I have coffee right next tom me...22:07
* b-man makes some tea22:07
johnxhmm, it has been awfully long time since I slept but I do have today off...soooo22:07
b-mani naturaly can't stay up past 2:00 am or i fall asleep :p22:08
b-man(and coffie makes me sleepy)22:09 first cup of coffee used to make me sleepy, then my second cup woke me up22:09
johnxbut I fixed that: got a bigger cup22:10
*** gnuton has quit IRC22:10
Shadow_Manyone read the article that says more than 3 cups of coffe a day makes you paranoid and dalusional22:10
RST38hjohnx: it is past 3am where you are [state-of-factly]22:10
johnxRST38h, 5AM22:10
StskeepsShadow_M: which explains a lot of people on iTT and on the internet22:10
StskeepsRST38h: Mer is so much fun.22:10
johnxI work nights :)22:10
Stskeepsaw, more sane reason22:10
johnxI'm on London time :)22:10
RST38hjohnx: around this time, I start seeing wireframes everywhere22:10
b-manjohnx, get some sleep!!22:11
johnxRST38h, those aren't real? ah...fuck22:11
RST38hjohnx: Who knows? =)22:11
qwerty12_N800johnx, brapp, london (time) is da shit :p22:11
johnxb-man, eh. I'll have plenty of time to sleep when I'm dead22:11
b-manlol x1000022:11
*** gnuton has joined #maemo22:11
johnxI'll stay up long enough to see my wife off to work :)22:11
* RST38h remembers he has to work too22:12
* b-man doesn't work22:12
Stskeepsi was at work today even though i wasn't legally able to, hmm :P22:13
b-man(in highschool)22:13
Stskeepsb-man: get a paperroute22:13
johnxgrrrr....maemopad, tell me *which* icon has 0 size22:13
*** totix800 has joined #maemo22:13
TrueJournalsHooray highschool!22:13
TrueJournalsNo school today here due to FREEZING COLD22:13
totix800Hey, does anybody know a way to control N810s LEDs?22:13
qwerty12_N800TrueJournals, Damn! that's you and b-man now :(22:14
b-manTruejournals: same reason here!!!!!22:14
b-mando you live in ohio? :)22:14
qwerty12_N800!insult London for not having seriously shit weather22:14
RST38htotix: yes.22:14
Stskeepstotix800: there's probably an example of it in powerlaunch22:14
Shadow_Mok i think i am havint an issue with wizard mount on my windows machine the file permissions are fine but on her in emelfm2 i cant open a dir because it says no permission22:14
RST38htotix: there is documentation22:14
TrueJournalsb-man: No, I live in a suburb of Chicago22:14
b-manah 245 miles from ware i live22:14
qwerty12_N800totix800, there's dbus signals that you can send to mce - search itt22:15
RST38hWhat is "freezing cold" in Chicago?22:15
TrueJournalsRST38h: -2 degrees outside, windchill to -25 (F, of course)22:15
b-man-12 for a low for us22:15
johnxTrueJournals, I do not envy you22:15
TrueJournalsEr, It's -6 currently actually22:15
totix800thx to all, now I got some things to look after22:16
TrueJournalsYeah, it's pretty cold22:16
qwerty12_N800totix800, or if you just wanna mess around:
Shadow_Manyone use wizard mounter here22:16
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: hah, i thought led_control.py22:16
Stskeepsno wonder i couldn't find it22:16
qwerty12_N800i'm more annoyed about s/colour/color/ ;p22:17
TrueJournalsPfft... you crazy british people22:18
*** greentux has joined #maemo22:18
Shadow_Mno one uses wizard mounter?22:18
*** Khertan has quit IRC22:18
TrueJournalsNot I :-\22:18
johnxqwerty12_N800, why don't you just speak proper English?22:18
* johnx ducks22:19
qwerty12_N800johnx, I do already, by speaking British English :P22:19
Shadow_MTrueJournals, how do you mount samba shares22:19
TrueJournalsI don't :-P22:19
johnxqwerty12_N800, i dunno. US English is more popular...22:19
qwerty12_N800johnx, lies!22:19
johnxqwerty12_N800, but for a real kick, try Japanese English :D22:19
qwerty12_N800Hehe, sounds scary :D22:19
Shadow_Mno one here uses samba shares come on people22:20
johnxShadow_M, I use them through the file manager sometimes, but not recently22:20
*** konttori has left #maemo22:20
TrueJournalsShadow_M: Why, are you having trouble with it?22:20
* qwerty12_N800 's grammar is dodgy though...22:20
RST38hjohnx: it is really "rear kick"22:20
Shadow_Myeah the permissions are comming out write but when accessed on a windows client they are22:21
*** pupnik_ has joined #maemo22:21
johnxRST38h, just pronounce ri and li at the same time and you'll get the idea22:21
Shadow_Mlike the samba user i put in for wizard mounter has full rights but wizard mounter isnt giving them22:21
RST38hjohnx: I can't even pronounce "the" properly and you ask for such advanced crap!22:22
johnxRST38h, heh...I can't get it right either :D22:22
TrueJournalsShadow_M: Have you tried using the share with the same user on a different computer?22:22
Shadow_Myup seems to work fine TrueJournals22:23
TrueJournalsHmmmm.. that does seem strage.. I'm installing wizard-mounter right now to see if I get the same22:23
*** ssvb has joined #maemo22:24
Shadow_Malright whats esp weird is that in emelfm2 a dir says no permission but the share mounted on a pc can enter the folder and modify it22:26
Stskeepsjohnx: i was scared when my other computers appeared in mer file chooser :)22:26
johnxShadow_M, ok, check the actualy permissions of the dir before you mount the share22:26
johnxStskeeps, ah, guess we have some libsmb stuff, huh?22:27
Stskeepsjohnx: yup22:27
johnxnote: we're missing a whole bunch of parts of the "transparent cursor" theme, so transparent cursors aren't visible22:27
Stskeepsalso we arent really supposed to remove cursor in start-hildon actually22:28
johnxaaah, I didn't even notice22:28
Stskeepsbtw, meiz claimed we get movable windows but OK positioned, if we simply remove the use_dialog_mode free line22:28
Stskeepselse i have a patch from Matan for it22:28
johnxgood deal22:29
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: did i go too far?
lcukis there a way to have best of both - if the xevents come via mouse to display and update a cursor, otherwise hide it and use it normally22:29
*** AFBN810 has quit IRC22:29
johnxI wonder what Nokia is holding back in terms of matchbox patches22:29
StskeepsMeiz_n810: yes, remove imager and installer link22:29
Stskeeps(if it's ok)22:30
Shadow_Mjohnx, i did that22:30
StskeepsMeiz_n810: if anyone wants to participate they should show up here :P22:30
Meiz_n810okay :)22:30
StskeepsMeiz_n810: what the heck is the power cable icon btw?22:30
johnxMeiz_n810, but as for the screenshots, they look great :)22:30
Meiz_n810johnx: thanks22:31
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: gnome-power-manager22:31
Stskeepsdoes it get the battery right?22:31
Meiz_n810not really working22:31
johnxah, yeah22:31
johnxprobably tied to ACPI to a certain extent22:32
TrueJournalsShadow_M: OK, I mounted a share, and was able to create a file in the share, but now I can't read or edit it.  Is that what you're observing?22:32
qwerty12_N800Meiz_n810, false advertising! :P22:32
StskeepsMeiz_n810: and edit to note that you are using icons from maemo22:32
* Jaffa boggles at the level of unknowledge about the RX-51 on maemo-developers22:32
Stskeepsjust so people don't get false expectations :)22:32
StskeepsJaffa: people were probably too drunk at summit22:32
johnxJaffa, among Nokian's or outsiders?22:33
*** pupnik has quit IRC22:33
Shadow_MTrueJournals yeah basically22:33
Jaffajohnx: non-Nokians22:34
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: done :)22:34
StskeepsMeiz_n810: ta22:34
zenvoidStskeeps: oops, sorry I was away, installing linux in the ps3 (well... playing gta4 in fact, but "installing linux" sounds much better excuse ;-) )22:34
StskeepsMeiz_n810: besides that, looks great :)22:34
TrueJournalsShadow_M: Well, at the very least, we're observing the same thing...22:34
Stskeepszenvoid: "compiling"22:34
johnxJaffa, I guess keeping up with things is just too tough for some people ...22:34
zenvoidStskeeps: you are right, I forgot to upload the tar.gz22:35
Shadow_Myeah but how do you fix that lol TrueJournals22:35
Stskeepszenvoid: hehe :)22:35
lcukjohnx, not everyone does22:35
Stskeepsjohnx: mer tshirt.. logo, plus the motto "We should stop seeing the tablets as strictly under-powered embedded systems, and see them for what they really are: powerful, power-efficient, economical handheld computers." ;)22:35
lcukok, its not -users its -dev22:35
Shadow_Mit kinda seems like it doesnt like to use the users real permissions TrueJournals22:35
johnxStskeeps, who is that from again?22:35
JaffaYou'd've thought the people who actually post to -dev would know about what was announced at the summit22:36
Stskeepsjohnx: i'm not sure if it was either my original statement, then edited by rst38h, or by GA, or in which order..22:36
Meiz_n810hmm, omegamoon seems to have fennec on his zaurus...
Stskeepsi should google my logs22:36
StskeepsMeiz_n810: who'd want fennec? :P22:36
TrueJournalsShadow_M: Excellent question...22:36
Stskeeps(apologies to any fennec developers in the room)22:36
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: it might become a good browser for mobile devices22:37
johnxMeiz_n810, gah, that has to take forever to load O_o22:37
*** mlpug has quit IRC22:37
TrueJournalsShadow_M: I think wizard-mounter needs to be modified to pass uid and gid to mount as options, so that files get created for the correct user22:37
johnxeven midori in matchbox takes a while to load on the zaurus22:37
TrueJournalsAnyone have a dev environment up and running to compile if I modify wizard-mounter? :P22:38
JaffaMeiz_n810: The theme-including mer screenshots on ITT look fab22:38
Meiz_n810thanks :)22:38
lcukjaffa its really starting to resemble a desktop :)22:40
StskeepsMeiz_n810: you should be able to use the load applet screenshot feature now btw22:40
Stskeepsit'll put itself in /home/whatever/MyDocs/.images22:40
Stskeepswtf, didn't know evernote did IMAP access to notes22:41
*** aloisiojr has quit IRC22:41
Stskeepsthat's innovative22:41
*** aloisiojr has joined #maemo22:41
RST38hnetbook porn:
Stskeepssomething like that combined with xournal could be a killer app22:42
JaffaRST38h: assuming one wanted a netbook ;-)22:42
JaffaAnd had oodles of cash22:42
*** danilocesar has joined #maemo22:43
johnxRST38h, I should head down to the store today and get my paws on one for a bit. :)22:43
RST38hJaffa: the review makes it pretty clear you DO NOT want a netbook22:43
*** benh has joined #maemo22:44
RST38hJaffa: from the sound of it, the video performance is actually worse than in the current N81022:44
RST38hjohnx: I am not even sure how to classify this particular perversion =)22:44
qwerty12_N800RST38h, how the hell did they manage that?22:44
RST38hqwerty: Vista.22:45
johnxRST38h, a cheap laptop that forgot to be cheap?22:45
lcuk:) hearing about poor video performance makes at least one person smile :)22:45
RST38hqwerty: And of course more pixels22:45
johnxthe big thing that would help ARM machines running Linux is some more freaking RAM22:45
qwerty12_N800RST38h, point taken re vista. :)22:45
StskeepsOmegamoon: do you have an interest in the Maemo platform on Zaurus as well, btw?22:45
RST38hjohnx: It's a Sony. It's shiny.22:45
RST38hjohnx: Nothing else to add.22:45
RST38hjohnx: Well, *fast* RAM would help22:46
johnxRST38h, vaio p, can't playback 720p. pandora, can playback 720p. case closed22:46
johnxs/pandora/omap3 of choice/ of course22:46
RST38hjohnx: Pandora can only playback 720p when you can buy it, at least by mail order22:46
lcukbut is the sony available to buy?22:46
RST38hSo, let us not compare physical things with vaporware22:46
RST38hlcuk: it is22:46
lcukright, im off, bbl22:47
johnx"able to buy" and "shipping now" are two different things22:47
RST38hjohnx: Besides, I somehow suspect that if you put Ubuntu on this Sony toy and get a decent hw optimized version of mplayer, it will do relatively well22:47
OmegamoonStskeeps: Maemo on zaurus... may be interesting22:48
RST38hjohnx: not on 720p of course, but it will do 480p22:48
Shadow_Mi want to watch 480p on my n810 lol22:49
Shadow_Mstreaming too22:49
StskeepsOmegamoon: johnx has been working on a zaurus port (and associated theme for the smaller resolution) of Mer (basically ubuntu jaunty minimal base changed into being a base for the Maemo platform (hildon, maemo gtk, etc))22:50
ssvbShadow_M: for 480p, ffmpeg needs just a bit better armv6 support22:50
Stskeepsjohnx: what was screenshot urls from earlier?22:50
johnxhi Omegamoon :)22:50
ssvbShadow_M: and for streaming, whan driver also spoils the fun a bit22:50
Omegamoonjohnx: hi there22:51
StskeepsOmegamoon: <- quick intro and such22:51
*** lardman has quit IRC22:52
*** lizardo has quit IRC22:52
Shadow_MTrueJournals, is there a way to mount samba share without wizard mount smbmount?22:52
* Omegamoon is scanning pictures22:53
TrueJournalsShadow_M: Yes, just use xterm... let me get a command to run...22:53
*** yerga has quit IRC22:54
TrueJournalsShadow_M: Try sudo /bin/mount -t cifs "//(IP_ADDRESS)/(SHARE_NAME)" "/home/user/MyDocs/(DIRECTORY TO MOUNT TO)" -o username="(USERNAME_HERE)",password="(PASSWORD_HERE)",uid=29999,gid=2999922:55
TrueJournalsReplacing, of course, the things in parenthasees22:55
*** Meiz_n810 has quit IRC22:55
Shadow_Mdo i need uid and gid info22:55
TrueJournalsThat's the reason wizard-mounter doesn't work... it doesn't include those22:56
TrueJournalsSo, the shares get mounted as root22:56
TrueJournalsInstead of user22:56
*** Meiz_n810 has joined #maemo22:56
Shadow_Mah ok that makes sense22:56
Stskeepshm, US airways plane down in NY23:02
johnxis it just me or has there been more airplane crashes/mishaps lately?23:02
Stskeepsjohnx: actually they just reported two days ago there hadn't been a commercial aircraft crash in US for two years23:03
Stskeepswhich obviously tempted fate23:03
johnxwhere did that plane run off the runway?23:03
johnxwas that UK?23:03
Stskeepscan't recall23:04
johnxanyways, looks like this turned out ok for the most one dead, right?23:04
Stskeepsat least not confirmed, and that passengers were standing on top of the plane :P23:04
johnxheh...wasn't there something about a commercial plane never having gone down in water?23:04
Stskeepsas in succesfully?23:05
johnxgone down and successfully usually aren't in the same sentence as plane23:05
Stskeepsas in capable of landing on water23:05
Stskeepsand getting everyone out23:06
johnxmaybe it was some qualifier like "open water"23:06
johnxwell, I'm glad my uncle was flying into New York, not out :)23:08
*** chenca has quit IRC23:09
*** `Mace has joined #maemo23:09
Stskeepsyeah.. reading about it i went through my internal list of people being abroad23:09
*** avs has quit IRC23:09
GarethGreetings,  Any Maemo user, developers, enthusiasts in the Southern California area who might be interested in representing the project at an upcoming free & open source conference in February?23:09
Stskeepsthat's kinda an amazing and incredible photo23:10
zenvoidI'm curious about how do you handle multiple screen resolutions in themes... I mean, themes for maemo are fixed for 800x48023:10
johnxzenvoid, yes, officially. I changed the layout of panels (removed the left one) in ~/.osso/hildon-desktop/desktop.conf23:11
johnx...then I modified /usr/share/themes/<theme-name>/matchbox/theme.xml23:11
johnxafter that it's functional, but I really need to get back and slip some graphics and possibly work out equations for placement instead of guess+check23:12
zenvoidjohnx: ahh, ok, so there will be a different .deb for each screen resolution, I guess23:13
johnxyeah, I think that's the best way to do it23:14
johnxI had a brief thought about some script to automatically clip things in postinst...but uhm, that sounds like a lot more work23:14
zenvoidjohnx: ufff... I prefer multiple debs :)23:14
johnxyeah me too23:15
zenvoidjohnx: is there a different hildon-layout-theme?23:16
zenvoidfor each res, I mean23:16
johnxnot yet :)23:16
johnxjust yesterday I had my first luck getting it mostly layed out while I was on the train23:16
Stskeepsjohnx: <- now that's web 2.0 ..23:16
johnxStskeeps, ... just wow23:17
Stskeepsjohnx: yes, and kinda scary23:18'll be awesome the next time I fly. I'll probably have inflight wifi by that point23:18
Stskeepsjohnx: and for the most inappropiate web 2.0 ever..23:19
Stskeepslook at Status23:19
zenvoidI see this: Bad news! FlightAware is temporarily unavailable23:19
zenvoid"This is often due to extremely heavy traffic volume or an unexpected service interruption."23:19
johnxtry it again23:19
johnxStskeeps, yeah, "destination" is probably not exactly the right choice of words23:20
johnxzenvoid, though I could believe they're under a certain amount of load :)23:20
Stskeepsjohnx:,+-74.020000 <- very bloody good landing in terms of surviving..23:22
Stskeepsright. i should get back to my paper :P23:23
johnxbah, he only came in at 153 knots. I could land a car in the Hudson at higher speed :P23:23
johnxthough yeah. I'm surprised to see wings on that plane23:23
*** konttori has joined #maemo23:28
Stskeepsflock of geese in two engines..23:29
Stskeepsand so it starts23:29
johnxyoutube has better coverage than cnn.com23:29
*** dougt has quit IRC23:29
*** dougt has joined #maemo23:30
zenvoidjohnx, when there is no left panel (and hence no taskbar), what is the plan to change between apps?23:31
zenvoidyes, I know... being more interested in technical details in maemo themes than a plane crash is not much sensible, I think23:32
Stskeepszenvoid: wazd did some interesting prototypes yesterday.. sec23:32
johnxwell, you saw wazd's mockup. I'm leaning towards that if it can be done with off-the-shelf stuff23:32
johnxah, right, he didn't post it to his site23:32
zenvoidthanks! that is pretty interesting23:34
zenvoidand looks very good23:34
*** k-s is now known as k-s[AWAY]23:34
johnxand the idea is that the 'mer' logo would launch the application's menu23:34
Stskeepsyeah, but probably be more interesting to implement23:34
zenvoidjohnx, that was the question I was writing :)23:35
wazdRST38h: around?)23:35
zenvoidjust before you answered :)23:35
johnxjust my psychic powers :)23:36
johnxalso, I asked the same question last night I think :D23:36
johnxthen launching apps would be done through icons on the desktop23:36
johnxmaemo-desktop could even be re-used23:36
*** mk8 has joined #maemo23:36
johnxas for getting the running tasks to line up like that... I need to test if I can do that actually23:37
zenvoidvery nice, I like it23:37
johnxStskeeps, BTW, I'm not seeing anything suspicious in the strace for sapwood or maemopad when it fails to load those icons...I think they might not be included in the icon theme's index (???)23:38
RST38hwazd: yep23:38
johnxwhen I'm more awake I should be able to get a better idea with lsof by comparing a running maemo system and a running mer system23:38
Stskeepsjohnx: yeah.. that's possible too, gtk-update-icon-cache didnt seem to change anything like that23:39
johnx...but it should fall back on *something* I think23:39
Stskeepsyeah, i'm baffled too :)23:40
johnxanyways, lsof when I wake up again. for now I want to see if task-navigator can run in the top panel23:41
wazdRST38h: I've sent you GBA icon to the mail :)23:41
johnxinfobot, I miss you :/23:42
wazdwho killed infobot?23:42
johnxI think I saw a futurama episode like this...23:43
inzI hate those stupid ass bots that interpret regexps23:43
zenvoidhmmm... have you seen the "ubuntu mobile" theme?
zenvoidit does have only the top panel23:44
johnxzenvoid, I played with it but for some reason it didn't play nice with our version of sapwood I think ... or something23:44
zenvoidat least in the screenshots :)23:44
zenvoidjohnx: ah, ok23:44
johnxone more thing I should try again :)23:45
Stskeepsinz: btw - do you know of anyone applying the maemo changes of libvte to later versions?23:45
Stskeepsjohnx: also there's some patches in h-d in moblin23:45
Stskeepssome hints23:45
inzStskeeps, no idea, I douby23:46
inzStskeeps, the current version is the lates that supports gtk+ in maemo23:46
johnxzenvoid, I just played with it a bit. It can probably be made to work with more time and/or effort23:46
Stskeepsinz: k23:46
johnxStskeeps, patches to let them add an app-switcher to the top bar?23:47
Stskeepsjohnx: for instance23:47
Stskeepslook at the launchpad tree for h-d23:47
Stskeepsthere's a patch for it i think23:47
inzStskeeps, if the version now in maemo didn't fix nasty gconf bug, maemo would probably still use very ancient vte23:47
*** andre__ has quit IRC23:48
*** andre___ has joined #maemo23:48
*** zac_ has joined #maemo23:48
*** zac_ has left #maemo23:48
johnxI guess the question is how many patches from different places do we want to carry ...23:49
Stskeepswtf @ samba support being dropped in fremantle23:49
zenvoidjohnx: actually, I like your mockup much more :-)23:49
johnxzenvoid, hmm? you mean my screenshot?23:49
johnxit's wazd's mockup to be fair :)23:49
zenvoidjohn: ah, well... then I like wazd's mockup much more :D23:50
*** hvelarde|busy has joined #maemo23:52
*** amr has joined #maemo23:53
amrwsod on my 77023:53
*** konttori has quit IRC23:53
amrthis is the second time now23:55
Stslaptopon same 770? :P23:55
amrno :p23:55
*** housetier has quit IRC23:55
amri hope this gets replaced still23:55
Shadow_MTrueJournals, emelfm2 still gives me the same problem23:56
Shadow_Mthe built in filemanager says unable to open but then shows me the files greyed out23:57
*** TheFatal has joined #maemo23:57
*** fab has quit IRC23:57
*** TheFatal has quit IRC23:58
Shadow_MTrueJournals, in terminal under root i can see the files though23:59
*** TheFatal has joined #maemo23:59
*** dneary has quit IRC23:59
qwerty12_N800Man, is that fugly or what...23:59
*** setanta has quit IRC23:59

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!