IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2009-01-15

wazd	I'm back	00:00
wazd	2)	00:00
b-man	heh	00:00
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Stskeeps	b-man: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/guess_intext <- use this code for guessing INT_CARD and EXT_CARD instead	00:11
Stskeeps	it gives output in form /dev/mmcblkX	00:11
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qwerty12_N800	I see my awk trick worked ;)	00:11
Stskeeps	yes	00:11
Stskeeps	:P	00:11
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Stskeeps	and you just earned yourself nit-kernel-compat scripter job	00:12
Stskeeps	mr "i am not a good scripter"	00:12
qwerty12_N800	bollocks :p	00:12
Stskeeps	:P~	00:12
b-man	Stskeeps: ok, i'll add it to the installer.	00:13
Stskeeps	yep	00:14
Stskeeps	anyone with a N810 in the room? :P	00:14
* b-man starts removing a bunch of stuff from merinstall.sh		00:16
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Stskeeps	scary, i'm almost reacing as many thanks as i have posts	00:18
Stskeeps	reaching	00:18
wazd	ok, this guy agreed to help!)	00:18
wazd	He will be here tommorow	00:18
Stskeeps	woo	00:18
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Stskeeps	i'll be gone 10-15 or so	00:19
Stskeeps	maybe on from tablet	00:19
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* wazd thinks he came up with task switcher finally		00:29
BrentDC	I have a question for all the Linux Gurus among us: is there any way to see what the current draw on the battery is? I can get the current voltage via Matan's retu-adc program, but I also need to know current draw. Any way?	00:30
wazd	Linux Guru's definitely not me :)	00:30
wazd	~linux guru	00:31
Stskeeps	BrentDC: install ftd	00:32
BrentDC	lol. I'm trying to better gauge battery level (using Python & a little math), but the jumpy voltage reading isn't enough help	00:32
BrentDC	ftd?	00:32
Stskeeps	i think you might be able to apt-get install ftd really	00:32
qwerty12_N800	no	00:32
Stskeeps	oh?	00:32
qwerty12_N800	it was removed.	00:33
Stskeeps	that's silly	00:33
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qwerty12_N800	it was only in the early leak of diablo, I happened to notice it when browsing in red pill mode... and then proceeded to make screenies...	00:34
BrentDC	Google isn't revealing much: is it in any of the repo's (chinook?)	00:34
BrentDC	oh	00:34
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qwerty12_N800	http://timeless.justdave.net/repository/catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/updates/diablo/	00:35
qwerty12_N800	search for ftd and use dpkg to install	00:35
qwerty12_N800	you may have to resolve dependencies manually	00:36
Stskeeps	and the usual warning it may blow up your tablet or cause you horrible burns	00:36
Stskeeps	:P	00:36
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BrentDC	should i install the plugin or the other one?	00:37
qwerty12_N800	both	00:37
BrentDC	ok	00:37
BrentDC	thanks, sts & qwerty	00:37
qwerty12_N800	if installed right: http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/screenies/Ftd-battery.png :)	00:37
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disq	which apps put themselves in init.d to launch at startup? i'll have to do something similar but don't want to test it a hundred times give me an example and i'll adapt it to my app	00:45
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StsN800	hurray! the heat is back in my bedroom	00:50
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BrentDC	ok, I got ftd installed: wow lots of information. But it raises a new question: ftd seems to basically be a frontend to klogd....is there any way to access klogd's info via a CLI? (so i can poll and record the data).	00:56
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StsN800	ftd also acceses bme	00:59
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StsN800	which is not klogd	00:59
BrentDC	so any way to access that, too?	00:59
wazd	StsN800: http://s57.radikal.ru/i157/0901/17/7db435302905.png	01:02
wazd	StsN800: possible to make it twice wider	01:02
StsN800	wazd, confused by the white window selection though	01:03
StsN800	not obvious it belongs to the two squares	01:04
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wazd	StsN800: yep, that's the problem	01:04
wazd	StsN800: but principe is clear I think, this is just small design problem)	01:05
StsN800	yeah	01:05
TrueJournals	Is that actually what mer will look like? Or just a mockup?	01:05
StsN800	mockup	01:05
TrueJournals	Awww	01:05
StsN800	atm	01:05
TrueJournals	:-)	01:05
BrentDC	jeez, I just had an "OMG, I must install Mer" moment	01:06
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wazd	:)	01:06
wazd	StsN800: I think task switcher drop menu should be twice wider, for titles	01:07
wazd	StsN800: maybe it can be just standart maemo switcher btw	01:07
wazd	StsN800: just placed on top	01:07
StsN800	ui is a bit difficult touch wise isn't it?	01:08
wazd	StsN800: yep, I had to redraw simple hildon menu	01:08
wazd	StsN800: but as I said, maybe the best way would be to utilize maemo task switcher	01:09
StsN800	or do i have fat fingers;)	01:09
StsN800	yeah	01:09
StsN800	looks great though:)	01:09
StsN800	hope you're having fun doing it	01:10
wazd	StsN800: and what do you think bout customizable number of apps/applets?	01:10
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wazd	StsN800: actually I'm a slave in south africa that makes it for water :)	01:10
StsN800	fair enough	01:11
StsN800	i raise your wage with a beer;)	01:11
wazd	StsN800: So I think it's pretty good to allow user to choose whether he needs more apps or more applets on top	01:12
StsN800	yeah, should ofcourse be a setting	01:12
StsN800	blog about it - good way to document your designs	01:13
wazd	and it's a good PR :)	01:14
StsN800	yeah	01:15
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StsN800	and especially cos my memory is lousy	01:15
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wazd	StsN800: have you already revamped rescue menu?)	01:22
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b-man	StsN800: i'm haveing problems with scp; scp merinstaller_1.5.1-1_armel.deb bman@trac.tspre.org:~/www	01:26
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StsN800	error?	01:26
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b-man	ssh: Could not resolve hostname trac.tspre.org: Name or service not known	01:26
b-man	yes	01:26
wazd	StsN800: http://i039.radikal.ru/0901/d5/3a9207c44b02.png	01:28
StsN800	b-man, ping www.yahoo.com	01:29
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StsN800	wazd, stylus distance wise i would align left side of icon with left side of box	01:30
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b-man	StsN800: what does this do?	01:30
StsN800	or finger wise, center align	01:30
StsN800	b-man, checks if your resolv.conf is messed	01:31
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wazd	StsN800: what box exactly?)	01:32
wazd	StsN800: aw, got it	01:32
wazd	StsN800: Well, I'd prefer visual relation with top task switcher	01:34
StsN800	b-man, ip is 84.238.10.195 otherwise	01:34
b-man	ok	01:34
wazd	StsN800: If it would be at right - some misunderstanding with applets should appear	01:35
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StsN800	my main gripe is i have to go / down instead of \| :)	01:36
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StsN800	to switch	01:36
StsN800	\ would be to close app but its \| atm	01:37
wazd	StsN800: maybe place switcher icon in the beginning of the row	01:37
StsN800	also possible	01:38
StsN800	anyhow	01:39
StsN800	sleep time	01:39
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wazd	gnite)	01:40
b-man	uploaded merinstaller_1.5.1-1; http://trac.tspre.org/bman/merinstaller_1.5.1-1_armel.deb sorce; http://trac.tspre.org/bman/merinstaller_1.5.1-1.tar.gz	01:41
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StsN800	b-man, thanks	01:47
StsN800	with updated int_card stuff?	01:48
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b-man	yup :)	01:50
StsN800	k, will try later myself	01:50
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wazd	StsN800: still here?)	02:07
wazd	StsN800: how bou that? http://s45.radikal.ru/i109/0901/9d/c13ce1d0ee25.png	02:08
lcuk	wazd, before it gets ingrained in, you know the "r" in mer logo - it always feels like its 1-2pixels too far to the right. have you tried bringing it in a tiny bit to see if it looks more balanced?	02:11
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wazd	lcuk: yep, it's not :)	02:15
wazd	lcuk: that's the best position to my mind	02:16
lcuk	wazd, im just wiggling it backwards and forwards in psp	02:16
wazd	lcuk: but maybe you're right, now I'm starting to think that it's really 1px right	02:17
wazd	lcuk: that sucks cause then I need to redraw rescue menu	02:18
lcuk	heh - i know its all an optical illusion	02:18
wazd	lcuk: and kill you ofcourse :D	02:18
lcuk	ill get you a beer at the next summit :)	02:18
wazd	lcuk: If my country will pass me to it :)	02:19
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wazd	lcuk: what do you think bout UI layout then?	02:19
wazd	http://s45.radikal.ru/i109/0901/9d/c13ce1d0ee25.png that one	02:19
lcuk	yeah but ive thought it about all of them :P	02:20
Jaffa	wazd: looks good. No stylus access to an app's menu?	02:20
lcuk	where is the app title gonna go	02:20
Jaffa	lcuk: nowhere - they're useless	02:20
lcuk	i might have a dig into the hildon menu thing and see if i can get it to do that dynamic resizing thing	02:21
Jaffa	wazd: presumably an app's menu would /appear/ in the same place as it does now? (i.e. instead of the apps menu)	02:21
lcuk	isnt this gonna force us to remake and adjust hildon because of the shape it expects windows to sit in	02:21
wazd	Jaffa: "Mer" is an app menu button for now)	02:22
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wazd	Jaffa: maybe I should mark it same as Maemo one's	02:22
lcuk	i liked the ae :)	02:22
lcuk	it was generic enough to not look like a logo	02:22
Jaffa	wazd: This is where the lack of clear nomenclature gets us. When I press the 'menu' key in that screenshot, I get File Manager's menu. The `mer' logo is equivalent to the application-launcher menu (I figure?)	02:23
Jaffa	lcuk: no, shouldn't do. This is similar to the layout used in Ubuntu Mobile Edition.	02:23
wazd	Jaffa: well I think "task switcher" button is symbolized pretty clear and same as Maemo :)	02:23
Jaffa	wazd: yup, task switcher's great.	02:24
lcuk	alright cool	02:24
wazd	Mer's logo is hildon menu button	02:24
wazd	same as if you'll click title	02:24
lcuk	what are we gonna do when rotated?	02:25
Jaffa	wazd: Ah, OK. And using a Home applet for app launching?	02:25
wazd	Jaffa: Sort off, but I haven't thought bout that deeply	02:26
lcuk	thats a minimum of 3 clicks if its on home menu to go from one app to a new one	02:26
wazd	Jaffa: Maybe I'll come up with some more handy idea for quick app access	02:26
wazd	lcuk: well, now it's 2 clicks minimum :)	02:27
lcuk	yeah, tis ok anyway was just the idea of needing to go home	02:27
Jaffa	lcuk: change mer's home key behaviour to go directly to the home screen, rather than pop up the menu - since without the stuff on the left, full screen won't be so needed	02:27
wazd	Jaffa: good point	02:27
lcuk	home does task switching	02:28
lcuk	long home already minimizes to desktop	02:28
Jaffa	lcuk: yeah, but you've got the top bar for that now	02:28
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Jaffa	lcuk: I'm suggesting swapping those two behaviours with this hildon-desktop	02:28
wazd	Jaffa: well if you hold "home" you'll actually get home)	02:29
Jaffa	Anyway, this is what Ubuntu Mobile's Hildon looks like: http://www.linuxplanet.com/graphics/screenshots/1218133058Figure3.png	02:29
Jaffa	wazd: In Maemo. With your suggested layout, I think that makes less sense (for the quickness of starting apps, as lcuk says)	02:29
wazd	Jaffa: I like the idea of swaping functions	02:30
wazd	Jaffa: quick click sends home	02:30
lcuk	wow jaffa that looks really nice :)	02:30
wazd	Jaffa: long click opens switcher	02:30
lcuk	quick click should bring up the dynamic task switcher	02:30
wazd	lcuk: don't expect much from Ubuntu, homescreen is the only thing that looks nice in it :D	02:31
wazd	lcuk: other stuff is like worst themes of 770 :)	02:32
Jaffa	lcuk: Not if you want quicker access to launch apps. Since the top bar will be more permanent (less need for full screen as no wasted sidebar), and it's got more space than the 3 active windows in Maemo's sidebar, having home key == home makes launching apps quicker.	02:32
lcuk	i see they read your blog as well as microsoft :P	02:32
Jaffa	wazd: other alternative is to do an Ubuntu: add a home icon, a menu icon and a task nav icon in the space of your current mer & task nav.	02:32
Jaffa	Then it's a single tap to take you back to your app launcher/home screen.	02:33
lcuk	i agree in part jaffa, but havign a title area for an app is important	02:33
Jaffa	lcuk: liqbase doesn't have one ;-)	02:33
lcuk	sure it does	02:33
lcuk	every single menu is titled :)	02:33
Jaffa	What useful stuff has ever been shown in the title area of an app on Maemo? The only use they have IME is when switching between them, which is still maintained in wazd's mockup	02:33
wazd	Jaffa: too much functional icons on the same place :)	02:33
lcuk	when im in dynamic screens though i go fullscreen	02:34
lcuk	jaffa, the title	02:34
Jaffa	lcuk: What useful stuff is in the title?	02:34
Jaffa	i.e. of the currently foregrounded app?	02:34
wazd	Titlebar is useless, forget bout it :)	02:35
wazd	It does totaly nothing	02:35
Jaffa	For example, I've just opened File Manager, I see "File manager - Removable...". But I know it's the File Manager, cos it looks like it. And I know I've got the memory card selected as it's highlighted.	02:35
lcuk	sometimes space is important	02:35
wazd	That was the theme of my first blogpost	02:35
Jaffa	wazd: Aye, and it convinced me you're often right ;-)	02:36
lcuk	people read the headlines, sure a useless title is wasted	02:36
wazd	http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2008/01/17/maemo-tray-modification/	02:36
* Jaffa beds.		02:36
wazd	lcuk: headlines contain text	02:36
wazd	lcuk: not something like "Web - Nokia Sta..."	02:37
wazd	lcuk: what's the point of that letters?)	02:37
wazd	lcuk: Titles are needed to define info without opened windows. And I have them in task switcher	02:38
lcuk	"The tray should be variable length. New applet - more tray. Applet is removed - application name can claim the space." :) ideal compromise	02:38
lcuk	you will never make me agree its useless, and i will never try to force it upon you :)	02:38
wazd	lcuk: So tell me whats the point of "Web - Nokia Sta..."	02:39
wazd	lcuk: that compromise works if you have side menu :)	02:39
lcuk	<lcuk> people read the headlines, sure a useless title is wasted	02:39
wazd	lcuk: headlines are something like "Madonna divorses with Guy Richie!!111"	02:40
lcuk	i meant the useless bit	02:40
wazd	lcuk: Not something like "Madonna div..."	02:40
lcuk	its not up to the OS to dictate the format of the titlebars, it cannot guess good from bad (that example is bad)	02:40
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lcuk	remember, i would prefer a dynamically resizing titlebar which goes from almost nothing to much larger per preference	02:41
lcuk	if you click on "madonna div.." it should slide out	02:42
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wazd	lcuk: in newspaper?)	02:42
lcuk	but it gives a larger easy to hit area for the users finger to get at his app menu	02:42
lcuk	heh yeah	02:42
wazd	"mer" button is more than large for a finger)	02:42
lcuk	when the app menu itself isnt much different to the other menus the user will not know which to click	02:42
wazd	I've tried)	02:42
lcuk	suppose i give you the tablet, you've never used it before	02:43
wazd	lcuk: well, I've read the instruction when I bought n800 :)	02:43
lcuk	take it to the pub with you and let your friends play	02:44
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wazd	lcuk: well, they already played, but they weren't anywhere outside of the browser :)	02:44
wazd	lcuk: I agree that maybe I should place same sign of menu like maemo has	02:46
wazd	lcuk: for easy location	02:46
lcuk	:)	02:46
wazd	lcuk: I also wanted to add some fingerfriendly feature	02:47
wazd	When user taps small icon in the taskswitcher a tip with it's title appears	02:47
wazd	And user can drag between apps if he missed	02:48
wazd	Switch on release	02:48
wazd	something like iPhone keyboard as I remember	02:48
lcuk	i know the effect, im just not sure its needed, are we expecting so many tasks it needs tiny icons?	02:51
lcuk	the icon + caption could be a regular easy fingerable size and still not need scrolling	02:52
wazd	lcuk: I'm talking bout top switcher	02:52
wazd	that's next to "mer"	02:52
lcuk	yeah i see it, still not sure, btw in the ubuntu, what happens when you click on the title area "All" does it drop a nice tree?	02:57
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wazd	lcuk: dunno	02:58
wazd	lcuk: I've just seen screenshots	02:58
lcuk	i might have to shove it on my x41	02:58
lcuk	though i really want mer on it :) cannot stand ubuntu	02:59
lcuk	anyway, gnite wazd :)	03:01
wazd	gnite lcuk)	03:01
wazd	btw I don't see much sense in menu button to be finger friendly, since menu itself isnt :)	03:02
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dick-richardson	kudos to the backup/restore devs - damn good job	03:30
dick-richardson	my n810 went through my snow blower and I just got the new one up and running in no time	03:31
Mousey	uh	03:33
Mousey	ya'll should check images.google.com for the "coco de mer" fruit	03:35
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lcuk	PMSL	03:39
wazd	Mousey: whoa!!	03:39
wazd	That's hot)	03:39
lcuk	how in gods name did you come across that one	03:39
Mousey	hehe	03:39
lcuk	we HAVE to have that as the desktop icon	03:39
Mousey	i was looking for that mer wallpaper somebody linked yesterday	03:39
Mousey	yah man	03:39
Mousey	too bad there's no cool coco program	03:40
lcuk	ill fuffin make one	03:40
wazd	That one is pretty nice: http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3066/2788473919_4ab5fd7304_o.jpg	03:40
Mousey	=)	03:40
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wazd	Damn, thats uber hilarious)	03:41
lcuk	have you seen whats top of normal google search for that term	03:41
Mousey	yay i contributed to mer!	03:42
Mousey	^_^	03:42
wazd	Well, that's why I hate French :)	03:43
wazd	They can ruin everything))	03:43
b-man	lol	03:44
wazd	It's still 1 thing to figure out	03:44
wazd	what was first, woman's ass or this nut :D	03:45
wazd	And what the hell nature was thinking about :)	03:45
* b-man needs to beta test lates mer image - will be back		03:47
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wazd	Now Mer definitely takes first place in "Linux logo with women bodies" chart from Ubuntu :)	03:47
Mousey	^_^	03:47
Mousey	i am so proud! =D	03:48
lcuk	you could almost get away with it as the m from mer ;)	03:48
wazd	Mousey: http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2009/01/12/repos-a-la-mer there is the wallpaper, if you still need it somehow)	03:49
Mousey	thanks =)	03:49
Mousey	aw, doesn't have the logo in the middle	03:49
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wazd	lcuk: let's hide it as secret weapon)	03:50
lcuk	not to discuss again, but better to consider it plain then blendblit the required text/logo in the right place?	03:50
lcuk	wrap it in bacon	03:50
lcuk	anyway, im not here now	03:50
lcuk	gnite again	03:50
Mousey	uh	03:50
wazd	yaya))	03:50
wazd	That would be a hit if cocoa would be somehow ported to linux))	03:51
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wazd	k, I'm out too, gnite all :)	03:52
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b-man	i'm back	03:59
Shadow_M	hi	04:00
b-man	hi	04:00
Shadow_M	welcome back	04:00
b-man	:)	04:01
Shadow_M	so how do i get involved in the maemo community	04:01
b-man	find a project that you like and jump in :D	04:02
Shadow_M	ah alright	04:02
b-man	btw, i tryed out the new mer rescue menu, looks.............. amazing!	04:03
Shadow_M	whats that	04:03
b-man	a rescue menu to boot into/fix mer	04:04
Shadow_M	what is mer	04:04
b-man	it looks taoaly different from the original, it even uses gnome fonting	04:04
b-man	a experimental os that is based on ubuntu jaunty that is designed to run maemo apps	04:05
b-man	"maemo reconstructed"	04:06
Shadow_M	ah interesting	04:06
Shadow_M	screenie?	04:06
b-man	http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed provides most of the information - and possibly screenshots	04:07
b-man	i'm currently the maintainer of the installer :)	04:07
Shadow_M	ah nice	04:07
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b-man	http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint#SB1_SDK_Guide provides most of the technical information	04:15
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GeneralAntilles	Why do they always gotten ship prizes to the people who already have them. :(	04:16
GeneralAntilles	Damn you, thp! :P	04:16
GeneralAntilles	Anyway: http://public.smi.ethz.ch/files/MaemoOpenmoko/PublicDescriptiveStatistics.html	04:16
b-man	cool	04:23
* b-man starts to apply yet another update to his ubuntu jaunty guide		04:24
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* b-man thinks about making a installer for Ubuntu Jaunty...		05:07
b-man	make things 1000 times easier for everyone :)	05:08
Shadow_M	would the installer allow dual boot	05:08
Shadow_M	or how would that work	05:08
b-man	yes, it would make a bootmenu item	05:08
b-man	and then automaticly reflash initfs for dual booting	05:09
Shadow_M	hmm easy to revert back?	05:10
b-man	you would have to flash with stock initfs, but it shuld not be too hard	05:11
Shadow_M	hmm	05:11
Shadow_M	how do you flash with stock initfs	05:12
b-man	you could use a computer or use initfs flasher	05:13
b-man	(for maemo)	05:14
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Shadow_M	hmm	05:14
Shadow_M	or use a other bootmenu	05:15
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b-man	yup	05:15
Shadow_M	i wouldnt mind trying ubuntu on here although i would think it woulld be slow	05:17
b-man	not if you use plenty of swap ;)	05:17
b-man	and install preload and insserv	05:18
Shadow_M	hmm	05:18
Shadow_M	i think i went overboard on swap here	05:19
Shadow_M	i gave it 384 megs	05:19
b-man	i've used 400 :)	05:19
Shadow_M	how much swap would it need and what does insserv do	05:19
Shadow_M	i am running maemo now though	05:19
b-man	insserv provides "parelel booting" - witch means that it orginizes startup scripts so the system boots faster.	05:20
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b-man	and to make slower prosesses start later in the boot prosess	05:21
b-man	(comply with LSB)	05:22
Shadow_M	ah should i use that on my desktop	05:22
Shadow_M	its a quad core	05:22
b-man	wow!	05:22
b-man	that's cool :D	05:23
Shadow_M	what	05:23
Shadow_M	yeah its a shuttle	05:23
b-man	how many ghz does it clock at?	05:23
Shadow_M	q6600 2.4ghz	05:23
Shadow_M	2 gigs of ram	05:24
b-man	hm	05:24
b-man	powerful graphics card?	05:24
Shadow_M	nah not yet cant afford it 6600gt	05:25
Shadow_M	what would you recommend to make it go faster	05:26
Shadow_M	lol	05:26
b-man	preload or insserv	05:26
Shadow_M	hmm i guess preload adds programs to ram right	05:26
b-man	yes... but over time it actually improves system performance by adjusting to your system automaticly	05:27
Shadow_M	what module adds parallel processing so it proccesses more than one program at once while booting	05:27
b-man	it caches information about what programs you use	05:29
b-man	and preloads them at startup	05:29
b-man	so apps launch faster	05:29
Shadow_M	hmm yeah	05:29
Shadow_M	isnt there something that takes advazntage of all those cores	05:30
b-man	not shure.	05:31
* b-man needs to go - but will be back ;)		05:31
Shadow_M	ah alright well thanks i am reading up on it	05:32
Shadow_M	see ya	05:32
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b-man	i'm back again	05:51
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Shadow_M	oh no	05:54
b-man	what?	05:54
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samd	hi, is there any built in function to send files by bluetooth, or i have to install an app?	06:02
GeneralAntilles	samd, File Manager	06:03
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b-man	tap and hold, >send, >va bluetooth	06:04
samd	GeneralAntilles b-man ight found it, thanks :)	06:05
samd	\	06:05
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b-man	GeneralAntilles: how is it down there Florida?, its about -2 (-14 with winchill) here in Ohio and we have over a foot of snow on the ground with more comming :p	06:14
GeneralAntilles	No snow, but it's supposed to be down into the single digits in a few days. :((	06:15
GeneralAntilles	I'm in the north end at the moment, though.	06:15
soap	a foot? You must be north of me.	06:15
b-man	in Bowiling Green Ohio	06:15
soap	Columbus	06:15
b-man	43402	06:15
soap	haha	06:16
soap	43_2_02	06:16
b-man	ah :D	06:16
* Mousey drives traffic into the channel		06:17
b-man	GeneralAntilles: single digits in northern florida?!?	06:18
GeneralAntilles	b-man, yeah, Tallahassee.	06:18
b-man	0_o	06:18
GeneralAntilles	Normally we see maybe high teens once or twice a year.	06:18
GeneralAntilles	Quite a cold snap.	06:18
soap	When I left Houston Sunday it was getting awfully chilly.	06:18
b-man	the high here is only going to be 12 here tomorrow, and maybe 6 (with an actual low of -12) on Friday :p	06:21
soap	ditto. Should have stayed in Guam.	06:22
* b-man wants to live in California or southern Florida XD		06:22
b-man	besides, most of my family lives in california and florida :)	06:23
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Mousey	<Gareth> hm. this is weird. i can't connect to my wireless G network....cant put all the characters for the WPA key in there.	06:37
Mousey	<Gareth> this is on the N810	06:37
Mousey	<Mousey> is it taking it and just doesn't look like it?	06:37
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Mousey	<Gareth> Mousey: No, I can't enter the key...I cant enter the whole key...one character short.	06:37
Mousey	oh hai!	06:37
Gareth	Hi	06:37
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Mousey	crickets	06:39
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Mousey	ah ha!!	06:40
Mousey	Gareth: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18929	06:40
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Gareth	Mousey: ah ha	06:43
Mousey	^_^	06:43
Mousey	i told u they were helpful here ^_^	06:43
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Gareth	Mousey: haha thanks	06:49
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johnx	hi	08:41
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RST38h	http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/15/ubuntu_cant_access_net/	08:47
RST38h	Enjoy	08:47
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johnx	RST38h, newsflash: dumb people are dumb. the register is a troll. story at 11.	08:51
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yigal	for 3 days without anything but an n800, it's growing on me	08:54
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johnx	yigal, yeah, I was in the same situation a while ago	08:55
johnx	it's not bad for lightweight stuff	08:55
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Navi	people are indeed morons	08:57
yigal	I'm getting an iGo and am entering a doctoral program in physics I wan't to see if I can write 80% of my thesis on it :)	08:58
johnx	RST38h, if you've ever seen the dell site, you have to really work at it to end up buying an ubuntu laptop for exactly the reason outlined in the story. Also worth considering: could you do s/Ubuntu/Mac/ and end up with the same result for that lady?	08:58
johnx	hey Navi. what have you been up to?	08:59
johnx	yigal, a little optimistic, but should be possible. just remember to back it up and don't trust your SD cards :)	08:59
yigal	is there some odd dell promo?	08:59
johnx	yigal, they sell ubuntu on laptops as officially supported	09:00
yigal	mercurial remote server + external flash	09:00
Navi	johnx: nuffin' much	09:00
yigal	:)	09:00
Navi	I've been up to a lot less then I've wanted to be up to	09:01
Navi	You?	09:01
Navi	lol	09:02
Navi	Silly Dell	09:02
Navi	Inspiron Mini 9	09:02
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johnx	heh, Stskeeps and I are still working on Mer. :) It's getting to the point soon when we can start working on just packaging apps for it	09:02
Navi	More Storage! Includes Windows XP!	09:02
Navi	Mer?	09:02
johnx	been under a rock? :P	09:02
yigal	yuck	09:02
Navi	I haven't kept up with itT	09:02
johnx	the Hildon (aka Maemo) UI on top of Ubuntu ARM	09:02
Navi	or however that acronym is cased	09:02
GeneralAntilles	~mer	09:03
infobot	from memory, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint_New and http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint	09:03
johnx	except not hacked up like my debian thing	09:03
Navi	Oh, that's cool	09:03
Navi	I guess	09:03
johnx	runs on n800, zaurus and x86 so far	09:03
Navi	Oh, that thing	09:03
Navi	I didn't know it was given a name	09:03
yigal	who would do that to themselves, sorry devs I guess interesting, windows?	09:03
Navi	Do what to themselves?	09:04
johnx	it was re-maemo for a while, but we didn't want another discussion about what the name should be	09:04
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Navi	ha	09:04
Navi	That reminds me of this one OSS software dealie	09:04
Navi	They spent all of December electing representatives, rather than actively develop on the project	09:05
Navi	and they missed the date that they announced for a release	09:05
yigal	is phonelink actively being worked on?	09:06
johnx	well, luckily the people who like hacking on Mer and the people who like pointless arguments tend to be pretty mutually exclusive	09:06
Navi	Woo	09:06
yigal	:)	09:06
Navi	Except GeneralAntilles	09:06
johnx	he's our ... uhm ... PR rep :D	09:06
Navi	Ah, so he has to speak the language to get the message across	09:07
Navi	I see	09:07
yigal	I feel this as the dev channel :)	09:07
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yigal	#maemo-user?	09:07
Navi	The last release of phonelink was a while ago	09:08
GeneralAntilles	Navi, the "language" is a frozen trout that I beat people about the head and shoulders with. :P	09:08
johnx	yigal, it's fine to ask here, but I don't know anything about phonelink :)	09:08
Navi	Aw	09:08
Navi	Maemo's svn browser blows	09:08
johnx	we do the good cop, bad cop thing. GA hits people with a frozen trout (or carp as the situation requires), then wazd shows them gorgeous mockups and wallpapers: http://tabletui.wordpress.com/	09:09
GeneralAntilles	Ha	09:09
GeneralAntilles	Navi, you try WebKit?	09:09
yigal	fare, I'm dealing with a beast of an evil creature called blackberry	09:09
Navi	GeneralAntilles: on the desktop, yes	09:09
* GeneralAntilles beats Navi about the head and shoulders with a frozen trout.		09:09
GeneralAntilles	https://garage.maemo.org/projects/webkit-eal/	09:10
Navi	Doesn't show the last update dates on the svn browser	09:10
Navi	Oh, we're back to the EAL thing?	09:10
GeneralAntilles	Inertial scrolling	09:10
GeneralAntilles	Well, there's also Tear	09:10
GeneralAntilles	but that's marginally less stable.	09:10
johnx	GeneralAntilles, had some updates recently. did you try the latest version?	09:10
GeneralAntilles	johnx, Tear? No.	09:10
Navi	Tear as in, this software is sad?	09:10
GeneralAntilles	Something like that.	09:11
Navi	or Tear as in, this screen tears a lot.	09:11
johnx	I think so. that's the icon	09:11
Navi	Either will work, but one is funnier	09:11
johnx	latest SSU fixed a lot of screen tearing issues	09:11
GeneralAntilles	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24293	09:11
yigal	for an end user is fennec something to consider?	09:11
johnx	but before that, yes it could scroll fast enough to cause screen tearing	09:11
Navi	yigal: nah	09:11
johnx	yigal, not yet	09:11
GeneralAntilles	yigal, give it a couple more months.	09:11
johnx	or give it a new CPU :)	09:11
Navi	My tablet hasn't been turned on in a while	09:12
yigal	ok, I'm not unhappy with/	09:12
GeneralAntilles	I wish these people would get their stuff into Extras so I'd didn't have to pay attention for updates.	09:12
Navi	GeneralAntilles: dude	09:12
Navi	Did you not know that the concept of a centralized repository is dumb?	09:12
Navi	I mean, that just saps all the work you have to do to keep things updated	09:13
Navi	No fun at all	09:13
Navi	:(	09:13
GeneralAntilles	You enjoy self-flagulation, don't you?	09:13
johnx	GeneralAntilles, ever tried to build a browser in diablo scratchbox?	09:13
Navi	GeneralAntilles: I am very masochistic	09:13
GeneralAntilles	johnx, nope, but I love telling other people they should. :P	09:13
Navi	Luls	09:13
Navi	Thankfully, he's stopped bugging me \o/	09:13
johnx	anyways, that's the other big thing about Mer. Stskeeps has done insane amounts of work to get us a scratchbox based SDK with recent compilers and recent versions of libraries, that mostly match up to ubuntu	09:14
GeneralAntilles	johnx, did you catch: http://public.smi.ethz.ch/files/MaemoOpenmoko/PublicDescriptiveStatistics.html ?	09:14
Navi	johnx: sexy	09:15
yigal	do any of you devs actually use modest for mail?	09:15
Navi	yigal: not all of us are devs	09:15
Navi	some of us are just here to troll and spam	09:15
johnx	yigal, yes. with gmail imap. but I'm not really a dev so much as a sys admin who got lost	09:15
yigal	wanna be ;)	09:15
Navi	I use Modest a lot	09:15
Navi	well, on the go	09:16
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yigal	johnx: same with me and imap gmail, just wondering	09:16
Navi	which reminds me, any suggestions for a good data-only plan that won't burn a hole in my pocket?	09:16
johnx	Navi, move to Baltimore, MD and pick up a wimax n810 before they disappear	09:17
yigal	at&t 60$/month ;P	09:17
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, I use Modest a lot with Gmail IMAP	09:17
Navi	johnx: why?	09:17
johnx	Navi, they're end-of-lifed	09:17
GeneralAntilles	Navi, it's $30/mo for a PDA-plan that'd go with something like an RX-51	09:17
johnx	GeneralAntilles, really think they'll let the rx-51 have a PDA plan and not make it use a usb adapter plan?	09:18
GeneralAntilles	johnx, I dunno.	09:18
GeneralAntilles	I have zero experience with their data-only stuff.	09:18
GeneralAntilles	If not, I'm going to be a little pissed, though. ;)	09:18
yigal	no bt that would be bad	09:18
Navi	johnx: that was pretty fast	09:18
GeneralAntilles	What do they charge for UMPCs with 3G modems?	09:19
GeneralAntilles	yigal, no BT in?	09:19
Navi	over 1k?	09:19
Navi	UMPCs are too damned expensive	09:19
johnx	Navi, well, the mobile wimax kit is only rolled out in Baltimore. they delayed their DC rollout and the Portland network somehow doesn't work quite right with the n810we apparently (?)	09:19
Navi	zomg	09:19
GeneralAntilles	Navi, er, what does AT&T charge for a data-only plan for them. ;)	09:19
yigal	GeneralAntilles: tethering options for data plans	09:20
Navi	GeneralAntilles: ah	09:20
Navi	60/mo or so?	09:20
GeneralAntilles	yigal, with AT&T you can usually tether with the non-tethering plans.	09:20
GeneralAntilles	Navi, my assumption was that you could use the non-tethering PDA personal plan for $30/mo.	09:20
Navi	They hit you with a large bill if they find out, though	09:20
Navi	Their detection methods are pretty weak though	09:20
Navi	ZOMG TOO MUCH DATA USED UR USING TEH TEATHER	09:21
yigal	GeneralAntilles: i have tmo with a phone that won't tether + data plan so i'm on the look out for something good	09:21
GeneralAntilles	I've been fine tethering for the past 2 years	09:21
Navi	johnx: How much are they selling it for?	09:21
GeneralAntilles	$20/mo MediaMAX 200	09:22
Navi	GeneralAntilles: they usually don't find out	09:22
Navi	or care	09:22
yigal	rediculous, who should care	09:22
johnx	I've seen n810wes for around $350 - $400, but as part of Nokia's EOL, retailers are supposed to ship them back to Nokia for a refund	09:22
Navi	Is the PDA personal AT&T plan unlimited data?	09:23
Navi	Luls, the tethering plan is double the price with a 5GB limit	09:23
Navi	and .00048 US cents per KB	09:23
Navi	over the limit	09:23
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GeneralAntilles	Yeah, unlimited.	09:23
GeneralAntilles	Tethering plans are ridiculous.	09:23
Navi	Indeed	09:24
yigal	the only real plan is 5g	09:24
Navi	3G coverage?	09:24
johnx	GeneralAntilles, that survey generally tells me that in both camps the people interviewed were a little confused	09:24
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Navi	I need a new phone for 3G	09:24
Navi	Nokia needs to come out with a new E70	09:25
Navi	Screw the N97s	09:25
yigal	iphone :)	09:25
Navi	E70	09:25
Navi	http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone	09:25
Navi	kthx	09:25
GeneralAntilles	johnx, hehe.	09:27
yigal	ah a little radiohead to lighten my day	09:27
roope	The E71 is a very nice phone indeed.	09:27
Navi	johnx: the WEs are too black for me	09:27
Navi	I hate black	09:27
roope	Back At The Mother Ship (tm), you see them everywhere.	09:27
Navi	johnx: actually, I don't have the $$$ for them :(	09:28
johnx	Navi, eh, save it for the next tablet anyways, or buy the new Palm thing when it comes out	09:28
Navi	The Pre?	09:29
Navi	We were discussing it earlier in the cool people channel	09:29
yigal	before my time	09:29
Navi	People should give up the webapps on a phone angle for now	09:29
Navi	native apps plz	09:30
johnx	basically, even if it's just a dumbphone and something to tether my n800 to I'll be happy with it	09:30
johnx	i dunno, Palm has actually sold me on the idea, and the devs don't seem to hate it too much	09:30
roope	I also think it's a very cool idea.	09:31
yigal	johnx: don't get a cheap tether, unless you don't use a cell	09:31
roope	Large offline native apps are dying out.	09:31
Navi	the iPhone tried it and failed	09:31
roope	It takes too long to build and maintain. When the app is done, it's too old already.	09:31
roope	(well, not always, but often)	09:31
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johnx	Navi, the iphone did webapps. Palm is doing apps in html/js that actually can call system APIs	09:32
Navi	Mmk	09:32
yigal	on a closed platform i would imagine offline apps could suffer	09:32
roope	afaik the palm 3rd party apps can do pretty much the same as the system apps.	09:32
johnx	apparently all the 1st party stuff in their demos was html/js	09:32
Navi	At least the Pre can multitask	09:32
roope	It's just using html/css/javascript + some kind of graphical toolkit on top (for the transitions etc.)	09:33
Navi	unlike the currently most popular touch phone at this moment	09:33
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yigal	i can do that js/php/html/css stuff i want something i can't do	09:34
Navi	How about develop a good application?	09:35
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yigal	it's all about particle physics for me, where's the time	09:36
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yigal	o i was worried i had made the general leave	09:39
StsN800	fuck mornings. there, i said it. who gets up before its bright outside?	09:39
yigal	no hand raising here	09:39
johnx	StsN800, does it count if I got to sleep after it's bright outside and wakeup in the dark?	09:40
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StsN800	thats fine. just slept exceptionally bad :)	09:41
yigal	johnx: that's burly	09:41
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GeneralAntilles	yigal, client being crappy.	09:42
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yigal	http://www.thebestpageintheuniverse.net/c.cgi?u=iphone that is funny	09:43
johnx	GeneralAntilles, aaah, I see what you were getting at with the survey I think: more programmer-hours per capita going into openmoko?	09:43
Meiz_n810	vlc is available for jaunty :P	09:44
Meiz_n810	but still no mplayer :(	09:44
GeneralAntilles	johnx, I hadn't really drawn any conclusions.	09:44
yigal	GeneralAntilles: I hope you're a bit better situated now	09:44
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johnx	GeneralAntilles, well, kinda fits with what I've been saying about attracting motivated people	09:45
Navi	Ubuntu 15.04 should be called Penetrating Penis	09:46
Navi	That would be luls	09:47
* Navi snickers		09:47
Navi	johnx: needs more hype	09:47
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johnx	Navi, exactly, but needs more hype targeted at developers	09:48
GeneralAntilles	johnx, I think Fremantle and the RX-51 will help a lot.	09:48
GeneralAntilles	It's tough to attract people to a platform that's mostly been stagnant for the last year.	09:48
Navi	johnx: any hype will do, really	09:48
Navi	user hype can help the base grow, which may catch they eyes of unrelated developers	09:49
johnx	Navi, that's true to a certain extent, but I think boosting the dev/user ratio would be a good thing. It makes the community "feel" more productive	09:49
johnx	I guess I should say "involved people/uninvolved people ratio"	09:50
Navi	Mmm	09:50
Navi	Too bad the tablet community isn't like the GP2X community	09:50
johnx	haha! now you're catching my evil plan :D	09:50
Navi	I wouldn't compare to openmoko	09:50
Navi	too unproductive	09:50
johnx	well, that too we'll have to work on :)	09:50
yigal	not like i'm using it much but the default player is giving me the following error "unable to perform operation. try again". any ideas? I use it for long bike rides, I just add my music collection, but now it doesnt work, although, a little find + mplayer does roughly the smae thing	09:51
johnx	Navi, Mer has two goals: brining up-to-date libs and a sane base for Maemo on the n8x0, and bringing the hildon UI to anything that can run ubuntu	09:51
Navi	you can use Canola, or something	09:51
Stskeeps	phew, qgil said maemo 5 would have xterm	09:51
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, was there ever any doubt?	09:51
Stskeeps	imagine the firestorm otherwise	09:51
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: you never know	09:52
Navi	johnx: well, honestly, I don't like the current UI, but ze future UI might be good	09:52
yigal	ya, need the 8gb+ card soon in my possesion	09:52
Navi	at least the libs and shtick are there	09:52
johnx	Navi, yeah, the current UI isn't great, just better than anything else	09:52
Stskeeps	johnx: saw wazds mockups last night btw?	09:52
johnx	Stskeeps, yup :)	09:53
yigal	i want xterm with mouse url support	09:53
johnx	Stskeeps, I saw the first one, was there more?	09:53
yigal	:)	09:53
Stskeeps	johnx: various vers	09:53
* johnx digs through logs		09:54
GeneralAntilles	yigal, tap'n'hold?	09:54
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johnx	liking this one best I think: http://i039.radikal.ru/0901/d5/3a9207c44b02.png	09:56
yigal	GeneralAntilles: nice :)	09:56
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GeneralAntilles	johnx, I always thought horizontal space was more important than vertical	09:57
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johnx	hence the top bar	09:57
GeneralAntilles	johnx, how easy are the layouts to edit?	09:57
johnx	or did you mean that the other way around?	09:57
* johnx sighs		09:57
GeneralAntilles	er, yeah, the top bar is good.	09:57
johnx	kind of a PITA to line everything up perfectly	09:57
GeneralAntilles	If only it were as easy as having wazd do a mockup. ;)	09:58
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johnx	well, even a non-programmer could do it, as long as they had patience and artistic sense (and basic math)	09:59
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johnx	the matchbox part is an xml file and then the layout itself is in .osso/hildon-desktop/desktop.conf	09:59
GeneralAntilles	Which reminds me of an old game whose level editor was ClariWorks.	09:59
GeneralAntilles	s/Cari/Claris/	09:59
johnx	I wrote a zelda clone that used vi or notepad for an editor	09:59
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johnx	want an enemy? type x	10:00
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johnx	the other part of a layout is of course redrawing all the affected .pngs	10:00
GeneralAntilles	Well, that, at least, we can make wazd do.	10:01
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johnx	and you can't use theme maker if you're changing the layout	10:01
GeneralAntilles	I'd like to wait and see what Fremantle looks like.	10:01
GeneralAntilles	I have a suspicion that it may already address these issues.	10:01
johnx	My suspicion is that the new launcher is the most likely place to use clutter	10:02
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GeneralAntilles	Likely, but we can lift the layout anyway.	10:02
RST38h	or deprecate them by using a completely different ui	10:02
SaBer_	Anyone familiar with Qt on Maemo? I'm having a sql plugin problem: http://rafb.net/p/ezHh4l38.html	10:02
johnx	RST38h, doesn't really matter. They're keeping libhildon and it seems like they're keeping largely API compatible (though I'd love to see that confirmed)	10:03
yigal	night, i thank you for your work, now a goodbye for now to all	10:03
johnx	'night yigal	10:03
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johnx	The one thing I can think of is that I assume Maemo 5 will have rotation support so we might need a mockup for a 480x800 layout as well. That presents some interesting challenges...	10:07
johnx	anyways, I'm off to work, maybe I'll try and draw a crappy sketch of it on the train :)	10:11
Navi	woo	10:11
Navi	train	10:11
X-Fade	Morning.	10:12
Navi	Hullo, X-Fade	10:12
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johnx	Navi, yup, the train: http://tinyurl.com/a8trs2	10:12
Navi	How are you doing tonight?	10:12
* X-Fade wonders what will happen with Jaiku once Google opensources it..		10:13
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aquatix	morning all	10:14
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Stskeeps	X-Fade: a lot of spread jaiku like systems	10:22
Stskeeps	X-Fade: and i think there should be mauku.maemo.org or something ;)	10:23
johnx	Stskeeps++ :D	10:23
X-Fade	Stskeeps: As long as they are able to sync with each other.	10:24
Stskeeps	X-Fade: yeah.. and that could potentially be a lot of traffic	10:24
X-Fade	For some things it is nice to have one central point where everybody can be found.	10:24
Stskeeps	on the other hand, it would be more sane than IRC.	10:24
johnx	irc<->jaiku gateway?	10:25
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, did you see? http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=257743&postcount=93	10:25
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* Stskeeps still isn't sure of openid really		10:25
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Yeah, we've discussed that.	10:25
X-Fade	But openid is really poor.	10:25
Navi	OpenID blows	10:26
X-Fade	It has all kinds of security implications and doesn't do account federation.	10:26
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: do you have time to test b-man's new installer later today? we fixed the external/internal card problematique	10:26
Navi	Needs moar transparency	10:26
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GeneralAntilles	Ah, good to know, then.	10:26
Navi	and less headache inducing backend libs	10:26
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: http://trac.tspre.org/bman/merinstaller_1.5.1-1_armel.deb	10:26
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: FWIW, we are discussing a central ldap for all maemo services. But no outside accounts for now..	10:27
Stskeeps	X-Fade: maybe act as a openid provider to satisfy those who want to make sites authing up towards maemo.org?	10:28
X-Fade	Stskeeps: That is an easier solution. But still, if you really look into openid.. it has problems.	10:29
Stskeeps	yeah, i know	10:29
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X-Fade	I like the 'one account for all' idea.	10:30
X-Fade	But it has to be done right ;)	10:30
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: ok, thanks, i'll try it soon	10:31
Stskeeps	bugzilla & maemo.org account seperation definately is a problem :P	10:31
X-Fade	And every service we use should have support for it. (eg. midgard, gforge, bugzilla, ssh, svn, git, mailman etc etc.)	10:32
monkeyiq	And now to infect the rest of maemo with wiimote goodness! http://monkeyiq.blogspot.com/2009/01/didnt-your-n810-come-with-accelerometer.html	10:32
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X-Fade	Bugzilla has ldap support, so that could be an option.	10:32
GeneralAntilles	monkeyiq, why not move your stuff to Extras?	10:32
X-Fade	Although we need to update bugzilla first. And andre___ is feeling the pain ;)	10:33
monkeyiq	GeneralAntilles; I've been considering it for a while... I'll probably push some stuff over at some stage.	10:33
monkeyiq	GeneralAntilles; once I get past the initial package in extras... but currently I just build in sbox and rsync to the uni which is quick & nasty	10:34
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monkeyiq	GeneralAntilles; oh yeah, plus a few of the packages in my repo are simply recompiles poached from the debian srcs, so I'm not sure of the politics if I put those ones into extras. If its just my personal repo then thats another matter.	10:38
GeneralAntilles	There are no politics.	10:38
`Mace	boston legal cracks me up	10:39
`Mace	it's no wonder it did better than the practice	10:39
GeneralAntilles	`Mace, ever watch 30 Rock?	10:39
`Mace	30 rock?	10:39
`Mace	no	10:40
GeneralAntilles	Well nevermind then. ;)	10:40
GeneralAntilles	I recommend it, though. :P	10:40
`Mace	heh	10:40
GeneralAntilles	Well, one of the character's in 30 Rock says "I watched 8 episodes of Boston Legal before I realized it wasn't a new Star Trek." So . . . . ;)	10:42
Stskeeps	hehe	10:42
`Mace	hahaha	10:42
Stskeeps	http://flors.wordpress.com/2009/01/14/wanted-thesis-worker-for-embedded-linux-kernel-development/#comment-1534 <- interesting	10:42
`Mace	william shatner is awesome	10:42
Stskeeps	wasn't 7of9 in there too? :P	10:43
`Mace	he did shed the whole captain kirk thing	10:43
`Mace	probably in an episode	10:43
`Mace	wasn't 7 of 9 in another show?	10:43
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Stskeeps	maybe	10:44
`Mace	she was hot in star trek	10:44
`Mace	not so hot in real life :)	10:44
Stskeeps	people get old..	10:44
`Mace	i think it was the ass lifting breast lifting skin tight uniform	10:44
Stskeeps	i'm really happy with my fiancée's looks, even if she's 3 years older than me, she doesn't look like a train wreck like most people i grew up did already at 20	10:45
`Mace	and the eye implant piece that kinda looked like a tattoo	10:45
`Mace	heh.. my gf is 28.. she's still hot	10:45
Stskeeps	27yo here	10:45
Stskeeps	:P	10:45
Stskeeps	X-Fade: btw, what determined linkedness between a iTT account and a maemo.org account?	10:47
Stskeeps	determines, that is	10:47
X-Fade	Stskeeps: You can fill that in at account settings.	10:47
X-Fade	Stskeeps: In your maemo.org account.	10:48
Stskeeps	ah	10:48
Stskeeps	so it pulls karma and such from there as well	10:48
X-Fade	Manual pointer..	10:48
Stskeeps	alright	10:48
X-Fade	So point to GA's account ;)	10:48
X-Fade	insta-karma[tm] ;)	10:48
Stskeeps	hehe	10:49
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2009/01/12/repos-a-la-mer/ , comment 9 - i'm willing to bet there's more people like that laying about	10:49
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`Mace	spader plays a good role too	10:52
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, :P	10:53
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, nice looking theme.	10:54
Stskeeps	yeah - theme is good, but also interesting what he says from a technical point of view :) hope we'll see him around today	10:54
X-Fade	Yeah, that theme looks clean.	10:54
Stskeeps	having more people insane enough to dive into scratchbox and such, is a good asset	10:55
Stskeeps	:P	10:55
X-Fade	Yeah, you need to get people like that on board.	10:57
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RST38h	mooall	11:31
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Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: I'm not sure the Fremantle layout will help non-Clutter based implementations.	11:37
Jaffa	And it'd be good for mer to have a differentiation	11:37
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kynde	about the ke-recv and it's "unable to connect, no file system found" for any USB device when in host mode... I was only able to find the 3.2 sources for the maemo 5.0, which doesn't quite work in diablo. is the diablo version, 2.28, available somewhere?	11:45
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X-Fade	Jaffa: It seems that at least some of the Clutter use is in matchbox.	11:46
kynde	for the record, I got the popup "fixed", but there were other issues with the new version. it relies on some features not apparently yet in diablo.	11:46
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Khertan	Hello !	11:55
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pupnik	hi	11:57
RST38h	moo.	11:58
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Khertan	hop hop ... mNotes 0.2.2 pushed to the builder	11:59
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Khertan	Someone can explain me while everybody want qt on their nit ?	12:09
Khertan	a personnal preferences of coder because they know it or use it ?	12:09
Stskeeps	less suck than gtk	12:09
glass	it's hip	12:09
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RST38h	it os for abi breaks!	12:10
RST38h	they are sooo exciting	12:10
Khertan	os for abi breaks ?	12:11
RST38h	Qt is a C++ librar	12:12
Khertan	and ? it s just a language ...	12:13
RST38h	It has got virtual functions and objects	12:13
RST38h	Yes, but imagine that you have been using Qt n.0 where an object had a size of x bytes	12:13
RST38h	You copied these objects, compared them, stored them, etc	12:13
RST38h	No, Qt n+1.0 is released and it adds an extra virtual function or a data member to your object so now it has a size of n+4 bytes	12:14
RST38h	s/No/Now	12:14
RST38h	If you try running your binary with the new library, it will crash	12:14
RST38h	That is one of the fundamental problems with C++ APIs which makes some people absolutely hate them (see GTK/Glib people for example)	12:15
Khertan	this is a real problem, right	12:15
Khertan	so gtk 1 - 0 qt ...	12:16
Khertan	and why many still want to use qt ?	12:16
Khertan	i ask because i see that maemo will be in feature available with qt and gtk	12:17
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Khertan	and from my point of view ... a python developper, i don't see any things that could made leave pygtk for pyqt	12:18
Khertan	s/made/make me	12:18
RST38h	qt is way cleaner than gtk	12:19
kynde	storing/copying/whatnot C++ classes as such with virtual functions is a bad idea to begin with. not hardly a flaw in qt or even in C++ just bad coding practice.	12:20
RST38h	python is different	12:20
Khertan	yep :)	12:20
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RST38h	kynde: why?	12:20
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RST38h	kynde: pointers do not change during your app lifecycle	12:20
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kynde	granted it works within an app, but if we're talking abi it's obvious that things break if you meddle with virtual functions. I read your complaint a bit wrong. and yes, ofcourse when qt makes a +1.0 release change and change their virtual functions the abi breaks. granted.	12:25
kynde	but is that so different when C libraries change their structs/functions in such a way that the abi breaks? there's usually far less need to do so, but still.	12:26
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RST38h	kynde: I guess C makes it way more obvious	12:32
RST38h	kynde: it is the opposite side of encapsulation	12:32
RST38h	if things are all encapsulated, you pay way less attention to what goes on inside that capsule	12:32
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kynde	true. C++ makes library ABIs too often a bit problematic.	12:41
timelyx	http://blogs.msdn.com/oldnewthing/archive/2008/11/21/9131198.aspx	12:42
* timelyx shrugs		12:43
timelyx	Qt has some advantages over Gtk	12:44
timelyx	Gtk has some advantages over Maemo Gtk (like none of the maemo API/ABI breaks!)	12:44
timelyx	you can easily screw up Gtk (and we have)	12:44
timelyx	w/ C++, you can and should write serialization things if you need them and iirc Qt offers some of that stuff	12:45
timelyx	so if you really care about reading objects from a disk, you can	12:45
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timelyx	(otoh, i filed a bug about the Qt IDE crashing on certain XML input, i don't think it's fixed yet)	12:45
timelyx	btw, Gtk also has api breaks, Gtk1=>Gtk2	12:45
Khertan	timelyx: do you know a site / page / mailing list where there is a real discussion on advantage of using qt or gtk ?	12:47
Khertan	i don't found anythings than nice troll	12:47
timelyx	um, not offhand	12:48
timelyx	i think there are some writeups by Linus	12:48
Juhaz	no, there aren't. Linus has never commented on gui toolkits, he did write about gnome vs kde, but that was about philosophy, not code.	12:49
timelyx	fwiw, I personally dislike Gtk -- Qt is cleaner. But i dislike Qt because its OOM handling is also broken. For Maemo, if at day 0, I could have picked Qt instead of GTK, I would have. However, having selected Gtk, I object to the idea of reinventing the code in Qt	12:50
timelyx	it took mozilla.org >5 years to do a rewrite (maybe closer to 7-10)	12:50
timelyx	note that Qt's object system isn't really C++, it's Qt (read about MOC)	12:51
timelyx	so while you can transition from C++ to Qt, it's still a transition	12:51
timelyx	just like switching from C or C++ to GObject is a transition	12:51
RST38h	Khertan: It is a heated topic so you won't find anything intelligeable	12:52
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timelyx	personally, i've found the Qt documentation to be better than the Gtk documentation, and the Qt impl to be cleaner than similar Gtk impl (i.e. the actual code for both toolkits)	12:52
Khertan	RST38h: yep this is the problem ... don't find anything intelligeable	12:52
RST38h	Khertan: And if you program in Python, it probably does not matter to you anyway	12:52
timelyx	but I've found bugs in both	12:52
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timelyx	and I'd rather write my code in js w/ xul	12:52
timelyx	and avoid both	12:52
timelyx	for mozilla, i'd be happier using cairo+x (no Gtk, no Qt)	12:53
timelyx	sadly we don't have that choice available today	12:53
RST38h	Khertan: If you program in C/C++, then the summary is "Qt has muchcleaner API due to C++ usage and saner designers"	12:53
timelyx	fwiw, when the Qt license change was noticed, some mozilla core devs joked about it	12:53
timelyx	it's pretty hard to actually love gtk	12:54
Khertan	timelyx: i love it :)	12:54
Khertan	but i use it with pygtk	12:54
RST38h	Khertan: See more discussion on the C++ virtues (type checking, encapsulation, etc) somewhere else - these pretty much explain why Qt is better than Gtk style-wise	12:54
Khertan	but there is some things i hate ... pixbuf ... pixmap ... :)	12:54
timelyx	someone could probably make a pygtk which actually wrapped Qt	12:54
timelyx	and you wouln't care	12:54
t_s_o	meep, after getting mnotes going it seems to have eaten my older notes, not nice :(	12:54
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* timelyx shrugs		12:55
Khertan	t_s_o > really ?	12:55
timelyx	i still haven't actually read the announcement	12:55
Juhaz	it's very hard to hide c++'isms in a language binding	12:55
timelyx	fwiw, afaik maemo software didn't know about the license change in advance	12:55
Juhaz	and they REALLY bother me in python	12:55
t_s_o	Khertan: i had maybe 5-6 notes stored in there, and now there are none. i aldo had to manually install pydes to get it running...	12:55
Khertan	t_s_o: ouch ... pydes shouldn't be required in this version ...	12:56
Khertan	do you get error when launching it in the term ?	12:56
t_s_o	that was how i sniffed out the pydes requirement	12:56
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t_s_o	ah, operationalerror: no such column: crypted	12:57
Khertan	but i don't understand how you can loose your notes	12:58
Khertan	yeah that it	12:58
Khertan	so it s just not dispayed	12:58
t_s_o	ok, so as the notes do not have a crypted entry, they are not displayed in the list?	12:59
lcuk	khertan :D make a note to check and test ;)	13:00
Khertan	in fact ... i ve packaged with the wrong framework version	13:00
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Khertan	the unfinished one which can crypt notes :)	13:00
t_s_o	ouch ;)	13:00
Khertan	i repackage it :)	13:01
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RST38h	BTW, am I the only one having password problems with the latest Modest?	13:02
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mgedmin	define password problems	13:02
Khertan	RST38h: i don't have password problem ... it just never update, or try to update :)	13:02
RST38h	Every now and then it shows an account dialog asking me to reenter password	13:03
RST38h	If I cancel, leaving the same password, it will show the dialog again	13:03
RST38h	Of course, if there is nobody to reenter password, the modest email check process just hangs there in the dialog	13:03
timelyx	do we have -dbg packages for modest?	13:04
timelyx	if so, a stack would help	13:04
* Khertan is uploading mNotes 0.2.3 to extras builder		13:04
* timelyx pokes mxr		13:04
t_s_o	RST38h: i have sometimes seen that dialog when the real issue is a connection problem	13:04
RST38h	t_s_o: I assume that the real problem is the connection as well	13:05
RST38h	Because the password does not change :)	13:05
Khertan	t_s_o: so i understand that you trust all apps in extras-devel ? :)	13:05
RST38h	Why it pops up the dialog and absolutely insists on reentering the same password evades me though	13:05
t_s_o	especially funny when modest is for some reason running in the background (i do not have automated checking enabled!) and the connection is activated but has some issue or other, there comes a modest account dialog out of nowhere, asking about faulty password...	13:06
timelyx	3469 #ifdef MODEST_PLATFORM_MAEMO	13:06
timelyx	3470 /* Maemo uses a different (awkward) button order,	13:06
timelyx	3471 * It should probably just use gtk_alternative_dialog_button_order ().	13:06
* timelyx sighs		13:06
t_s_o	?	13:06
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timelyx	3492 modest_window_mgr_set_modal (modest_runtime_get_window_mgr(), GTK_WINDOW (dialog));	13:06
timelyx	http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/modest-1.0-2008.23/src/modest-ui-actions.c#3450	13:07
t_s_o	loved that (awkward) but. talk about eye of the beholder...	13:07
timelyx	anyway, given that it's modal, it's not surprising that you'd get this behavior	13:07
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timelyx	t_s_o: hey, i'm only quoting code	13:07
timelyx	i didn't write it :)	13:08
GeneralAntilles	Personally, I prefer Maemo's arrangement.	13:08
t_s_o	heh, didnt say you did	13:08
timelyx	personally i don't like gtk's arrangement :)	13:08
* timelyx can't remember maemo's		13:08
GeneralAntilles	and I need to prod the Carman guys again about either fixing their own or changing the button text. . . .	13:08
* timelyx does remember that maemo had wizards with conflicting ordering		13:08
* timelyx sighs		13:08
* timelyx bangs head against a wall		13:08
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timelyx	3531 #ifdef MODEST_PLATFORM_MAEMO	13:09
timelyx	3532 /* Auto-capitalization is the default, so let's turn it off: */	13:09
timelyx	3533 hildon_gtk_entry_set_input_mode (GTK_ENTRY (entry_username), HILDON_GTK_INPUT_MODE_FULL);	13:09
timelyx	heh, this code is fun	13:09
timelyx	3576 /* This is not in the Maemo UI spec:	13:10
timelyx	3577 remember_pass_check = gtk_check_button_new_with_label (_("Remember password"));	13:10
timelyx	3578 gtk_box_pack_start (GTK_BOX(GTK_DIALOG(dialog)->vbox), remember_pass_check,	13:10
timelyx	3579 TRUE, FALSE, 0);	13:10
timelyx	3580 */	13:10
* timelyx cries		13:10
timelyx	why wasn't that #ifndef MODEST_PLATFORM_MAEMO	13:10
timelyx	:(	13:10
Khertan	t_s_o > mnotes 0.2.3 will be available soon in extras-devel repository	13:10
Khertan	could you test it and send me what you think of it ?	13:10
Khertan	by email (khertan@khertan.net)	13:11
t_s_o	ok	13:11
timelyx	http://games.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/01/15/0619257	13:12
timelyx	numpty physics anyone/	13:12
t_s_o	remind me, are there any other gui besides gnome and osx that puts the ok button on the left?	13:13
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GeneralAntilles	timelyx, Numpty is just a rip off of Crayon Physics.	13:13
mgedmin	t_s_o: gnome doesn't	13:13
t_s_o	mgedmin: i could have sworn...	13:13
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Let's call it a remake ;)	13:14
mgedmin	t_s_o: gnome apps tend to avoid buttons labeled 'ok'. a button labeled 'close' is more usual, and IIRC it's usually right-aligned	13:14
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, quite right, and I didn't mean anything by it, but that's what the creator called it. ;)	13:14
timelyx	oh	13:14
t_s_o	ok, close, whatever.	13:14
mgedmin	t_s_o: great idea!	13:15
t_s_o	:P	13:15
mgedmin	a 'whatever' button is what I want on all my licence click-through dialogs	13:15
mgedmin	e.g. maemo's app installer	13:15
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t_s_o	what happened to that patched app manager that removed the warning dialog?	13:16
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GeneralAntilles	t_s_o, maybe in qwerty12's thread?	13:17
GeneralAntilles	There's also a bug, I think.	13:17
t_s_o	there are always bugs...	13:17
GeneralAntilles	:P	13:17
GeneralAntilles	Unfortunately I'm not able to pull the number for this one out of my ass this time. ;)	13:17
t_s_o	ah, yes, i recall said bugreport	13:17
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GeneralAntilles	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=257743&postcount=93	13:19
GeneralAntilles	Pffft	13:19
timelyx	oh, fwiw, ars is probably the best ref for Qt stuff i suppose	13:19
GeneralAntilles	Stupid slow clipboard	13:19
GeneralAntilles	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=2710	13:19
Khertan	t_s_o > there seems to be still a bug on draw feature of mnotes	13:21
Khertan	do not keep important info in it :)	13:21
Khertan	i mean in the draw feature	13:21
Khertan	text one work like a charm	13:21
t_s_o	im not much of a pen artist anyways ;)	13:22
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* RST38h notices how often bugzilla comments started going into flame mode lately		13:33
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	13:33
RST38h	Nothing to laugh about really =(	13:34
GeneralAntilles	Frustration with Nokia is beginning to overflow.	13:35
GeneralAntilles	I think it'll get better moving forward.	13:35
RST38h	General: There are still 6 months to go	13:37
* RST38h did not expect Nokia would turn it into another Pandora		13:37
GeneralAntilles	Maybe maybe not.	13:37
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, bullshit.	13:37
GeneralAntilles	They haven't announced anything.	13:38
StsN801	GeneralAntilles, he has a point with signed/unsigned though	13:38
RST38h	Ok, agree, bullshit :)	13:38
GeneralAntilles	Pandora said they'd ship last April	13:38
GeneralAntilles	then slipped and slipped again	13:38
StsN801	as in signed by developer in repo	13:38
RST38h	General: They did announce Fremantle and seeded hints about N9x0 saying Fremantle will be limited to it	13:38
GeneralAntilles	Nokia hasn't said a word about the next tablet other than that it'll have three things.	13:38
RST38h	General: from what they said, the N9x0 release date is well deduceable	13:39
t_s_o	heh, the pandora slippage is better then nothing, at least as long as one didnt preorder ;)	13:39
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, sure, but how does that compare with the Pandora?	13:39
timelyx	really what's the date?	13:39
* timelyx wants to know		13:39
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RST38h	General: the pattern of promising stuff (even implicitely) and then keeping would be users in suspense	13:41
GeneralAntilles	Er	13:41
RST38h	General: but I do agree that the initial statement was bullshit though :)	13:41
GeneralAntilles	They've promised a beta SDK in May.	13:42
GeneralAntilles	That's the extent of it.	13:42
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kynde	is the hildon-status-bar-battery open source? where does it read it's battery status from?	13:44
tank-man	from a file	13:45
GeneralAntilles	No. DBus.	13:45
tank-man	everything is a file in linux :)	13:45
timelE61i	kYnde: mxr.maemo.org/diablo	13:45
GeneralAntilles	kynde, if you want a source: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24905	13:45
kynde	cheers. I'll have a look.	13:45
lardman	RST38h: from what they;'ve said I think you're out by a couple of months	13:46
GeneralAntilles	http://nitapps.com/	13:46
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timelE61i	did i ever push a fremantlesdk?	13:46
GeneralAntilles	timelE61i, I don't see Fremantle on mxr	13:46
lardman	RST38h: also re Fremantle only on n900, they are happy to help us with bringing it to the n8x0 devices too, you know that	13:46
timelE61i	Swift is currently not routable at all	13:47
kynde	nitapps sources somewhere?	13:49
GeneralAntilles	kynde, should be in his repo.	13:49
kynde	not in the usual place afaik, the nitapps.com/dists/diablo only has user/binary-armel as does chinook...	13:51
GeneralAntilles	Hum, dunno then	13:51
GeneralAntilles	I never was able to talk him into uploading them to Extras.	13:52
kynde	no worries, the itt forum link you gave pointed me to the advanced power which is garage with sources. which is exactly what I was looking for. cheers.	13:53
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kynde	(for ther record, even that is not in svn and there latest release candidates are not there as source. I guess some people don't quite grasp the meaning of making sources available...)	13:54
GeneralAntilles	kynde, some people just aren't that organized.	13:55
GeneralAntilles	A PM on itT to the creator might be productive, though.	13:55
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wazd	noon everybody	13:57
kynde	:) and sure, why not	13:57
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StsN801	morning wazd	13:58
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lardman	anyone know how touchscreen pressure measurement works?	14:00
GeneralAntilles	Magic!	14:00
lardman	thanks Arthur	14:00
X-Fade	lardman: resistance?	14:01
X-Fade	press harder, wires closer together?	14:01
lardman	does it actually measure the change in resistance between the wires, or are more pressed together?	14:01
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Khertan	and press more harder, and wire touch directly the cpu	14:01
lardman	;)	14:01
GeneralAntilles	Then magic!	14:01
Khertan	someone have some times to do something for me ?	14:02
Khertan	pushing pygtksourceview to extras	14:02
Khertan	and extras-devel	14:03
lardman	I was just wondering about that pseudo multitouch that uses the size of the touch region, and wondering if our hw can return that, which made me wonder if it uses the size as an analogue for pressure	14:03
wazd	since they are called "resistive" then it's something in resistance :)	14:03
Khertan	i ven't got the time to do it from my computer ...	14:03
lardman	http://focus.ti.com/lit/ds/symlink/tsc2301.pdf p18	14:03
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wazd	but I'm still with General, it's dark magic :)	14:04
lardman	no, it's on that page above actually	14:04
lardman	:)	14:04
lardman	it looks like X-Fade was right	14:05
lardman	which is good	14:05
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RST38h	lardman: but the real question is, which way out? ;)	14:06
RST38h	lardman: Am I short by two months or long?	14:06
lardman	I'd say short, but the what do I know	14:06
RST38h	lardman: then things are worse not better	14:07
lardman	ah sorry, I meant you're long, half asleep	14:07
* lardman pours another cup of coffee		14:07
RST38h	lardman: this would put hw release to the same time as SDK beta release?	14:08
lardman	yes, I presume some hw will become available then	14:08
lardman	but again, I'm only guessing wishfully :)	14:09
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RST38h	that is wishful thinking at its finest =)	14:10
lardman	if you're going to be wishful you may as well make it good (wishing)	14:10
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* RST38h in the spirit of being different ((C)Apple) wishes for global apocalypse		14:12
aquatix	how's that different?	14:13
lardman	my wish is positive, his isn't? ;)	14:13
RST38h	aquatix means my wish is also positive	14:14
RST38h	in the global view of things, anyway	14:14
lardman	lol	14:14
aquatix	ah :P	14:15
aquatix	RST38h: yeah	14:15
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wazd	damned AI, crashoing all the time(	14:34
* wazd downloading CS4 trial		14:35
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lcuk	lardman, the g1 multitouch comes from the synapse touchpad code i believe	14:39
lcuk	ie its very axis oriented	14:39
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lardman	lcuk: yeah, I was just looking at our hw and working out if it could also return an area	14:41
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lcuk	well it does return the average of your fingers	14:42
lcuk	area == average over time	14:42
lardman	it returns the midpoint does it?	14:43
lcuk	if that average goes from a small radius to a large one you know the user added a second finger	14:43
lcuk	midpoint of pressure yeah	14:43
lardman	ok, so you're saying that if it moves, you think a user has added another finger?	14:43
lardman	what happens if they just move their finger along the screen without lifting?	14:44
lardman	same effect?	14:44
lcuk	ok, put 1 finger at 0,0. normally in this world a finger can only move a certain amount per unit in time deltas are < lets say 5 pixels / frame	14:45
lcuk	if the cursor jumps to 800,0 you have broken that speed limit	14:45
lardman	ok	14:45
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lardman	it would be interesting to see what the "pressure" data does with multiple fingers	14:46
mavhc	is the actual hardware detecting multiple touches, or does the design of the hardware just happen to return the average?	14:46
Andrewfblack	Morning guys	14:46
lardman	as it's calculated by looking at the resistance of the panel in the two directions, plus some maths	14:46
lcuk	lardman, it varys - look at the multitouch test in liqbase, it becomes MUCH more sensitive	14:46
lardman	mavhc: just happens to return the average	14:46
lardman	lcuk: ok, I'll have a look	14:46
lcuk	start off with 0,0 single finger	14:46
lcuk	if the next reading is 400,0 if the pressure differential is the same then you know there are 2 fingers at 0,0 and 800,0	14:47
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lardman	hmm, interesting, I'd have thought the "pressure" would increase as the overall resitance in that direction was reduced	14:47
lcuk	but if the second finger is only a light touch you might only get a reading of 100,0 for putting two fingers in same place as before	14:47
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lardman	I imagine one could measure the touch area by calculating the "pressure" metric in both x & y directions	14:48
lardman	and looking at the difference between them	14:48
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lcuk	i do better than an area by obtaining an elipse of likely touches	14:49
lcuk	i can detect rotation to a high degree of certainty	14:49
wazd	your passion should definitely serve some useful things, not multitouch :)	14:49
lcuk	but because of the pressure difference its always fuzzy and needs averaging out	14:49
lardman	lcuk: ok, I was just wondering randomly after seeing that Android thread, I'll have a look at your code at some point :)	14:50
lcuk	wazd, theres lots of things im passionate about, multitouch is an interesting mathematical problem and relates in part to the events and messages an app needs to expect to recieve	14:50
lcuk	the logic is really simple lardman :)	14:50
lcuk	lardman https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/liqmutlitouchtest.c?revision=48&root=liqbase&view=markup	14:52
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lcuk	oooer reading it its a bit more convoluted, ill make sure its cleaned up and explained properly - i might make a wiki article about it :)	14:53
lardman	will have a look later on, fde code to debug atm :(	14:55
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lcuk	np lardman, have you had your bacon butties yet?	14:56
lcuk	wazd, have you made that coc de mer logo yet :D	14:56
lcuk	coco^	14:56
lardman	mmmm, bacon	14:56
wazd	lcuk: nope, I'm working on Emu Icons right now)	14:58
lcuk	heh cool	14:58
lcuk	back afterwards, lunch over	14:58
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blafasel	Anyone going to FOSDEM this year?	15:22
* aquatix is		15:23
blafasel	I'm just trying to get vacation on fr/mo to join as well.	15:24
aquatix	\o/	15:24
* aquatix didn't take vacation on monday		15:25
aquatix	so that might take some extra coffee at work then	15:25
* Robot101 is, with a lot of Collabora foljks		15:25
aquatix	Robot101: yay	15:25
aquatix	Robot101: do you have room?	15:25
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aquatix	+a	15:25
Robot101	aquatix: devroom? no we'll be all over the place, a lot of us at the XMPP jingle hacking on friday and summit on monday	15:26
aquatix	ah, you have your own summit afterwards?	15:28
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: could you give me url to the mer-installer?	15:28
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* rzr plans to go to fosdem too		15:33
rzr	and gsm forum in bcn.es	15:34
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Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: http://trac.tspre.org/bman/merinstaller_1.5.1-1_armel.deb	16:05
Jaffa	Right. Baby fed.	16:05
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andrewfblack	I'm freezing no matter how high I turn up the heat today, its 72 in my house I shouldn't be cold	16:10
GeneralAntilles	Andrewfblack, go do jumping jacks.	16:10
Stskeeps	andrewfblack: getting sick maybe?	16:10
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nico_	Hi !	16:11
RST38h	andrew: tried measuring your own temp?	16:11
Stskeeps	afternoon	16:11
nico_	Where can i cry about navicore bug ??	16:11
GeneralAntilles	nico_, you can try bugs.maemo.org, but don't expect much.	16:11
andrewfblack	Stskeeps I wonder if its really 72 in the room I'm in in the hall its says 72 but its 33 outside I wonder if I'm feeling the cold radiate through the walls lol	16:11
GeneralAntilles	nico_, Nokia contracted somebody to write "Map" and it doesn't seem like there's a good way to get bugs we report to them.	16:12
RST38h	andrew: I would try obvious things first: 1) checking your own body temperature and 2) eating =)	16:12
andrewfblack	RST38h Already made breakfast once but when I walked my Wife outside for work dog ate it again	16:12
Stskeeps	andrewfblack: my body thinks it's way too cold without food :P	16:13
andrewfblack	Will try that in a min could be that i havn't moved in 2 hours trying to ger MerEcho arrows redone	16:13
Stskeeps	RST38h: http://fe11.story.media.ac4.yahoo.com/news/us/story/ap/20090114/ap_on_go_su_co/scotus_evidence	16:14
nico_	GeneralAntilles: thx, in fact map'soft can't calc destination outside current map	16:14
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GeneralAntilles	nico_, I think there's an existing bug, actually.	16:14
Jaffa	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3962 IIRC	16:14
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nico_	Jaffa: thx it seems to be this bug	16:15
Jaffa	I wouldn't hold your breath, though :-(	16:15
nico_	close prog sucks, we only can wait ?!	16:15
RST38h	Sts: fairly predictable	16:16
RST38h	Sts: and from now on, police is gonna make "mistakes" often =)	16:17
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Stskeeps	RST38h: well it's interesting.. in .dk we don't have the rule that we look away from evidence if it was obtained illegally or whatever	16:18
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Stskeeps	if it's real evidence and trustable, it may b eused	16:18
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andrewfblack	hey if I wanted to change Personal Menu icon where would I find that file?	16:18
Stskeeps	but there's a shitload of paperwork involved when the police fucks up	16:18
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RST38h	Sts: it is also logical but making it a law gives police a loophole	16:19
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GeneralAntilles	Andrewfblack, /usr/share/icons/ somewhere in there.	16:19
andrewfblack	GeneralAntilles: Thanks	16:19
zenvoid	hello, I would want to learn about the current state of Mer, can someone please give me some hint on where to start?	16:19
Stskeeps	'lo zenvoid :)	16:19
zenvoid	:)	16:20
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Stskeeps	zenvoid: basically - we have a minimal ubuntu jaunty base, a lot of packages compiled from Maemo, that is, we have Maemo GTK, hildon, etc - http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer0.6b/ (screenshots), http://repository.mer.tspre.org/pool/ has current ported packages from Maemo ,	16:21
Stskeeps	https://code.launchpad.net/m-r has a lot of the code, - 'imager' is a good place to start if you want to see how we are building the images	16:22
Stskeeps	we have an updated SB1 SDK, http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint#SB1_SDK_Guide	16:22
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zenvoid	thanks!! I will read	16:22
zenvoid	I have a theme I made same time ago, based on plankton	16:23
Stskeeps	yeah, i saw it, looks very nice :)	16:23
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Stskeeps	we're using wazd's Titan atm, but any user interface stuff is welcome, as us others suck at that part ;)	16:24
Stskeeps	but would love to use SB2 instead, based on m-vo's thoughts on http://mariusv.wordpress.com/2008/12/07/the-cardinal-sin (if possible, but i have my doubts) , we also have an installer that partitions a MMC card, sets up bootmenu item, and retrieves a tar.gz. We have ongoing 770 port, x86 and Zaurus (along with N8x0) and kernel cooperation with nitdroid project. And we have an ongoing request with Nokia which would make it easier to distribute firmware ...	16:25
Stskeeps	... images (http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Community_firmware_image_distribution )	16:25
zenvoid	haha :) I'm not a graphic designer, but maybe could help in this area	16:25
Stskeeps	and most development happens in this channel for now (me, johnx, wazd, qwerty12, meizirkki, b-man, others)	16:26
zenvoid	I have a Neo Frerunner, it would be also an interesting target	16:26
Stskeeps	yeah, only "issue" is that ubuntu jaunty is armv5t, and freerunner is armv4t	16:27
Khertan	armv5t ?	16:27
Khertan	omap 2 is not armv6	16:28
Khertan	?	16:28
Stskeeps	Khertan: yes, but 770 is armv5t for instance	16:28
Stskeeps	or zaurus	16:28
zenvoid	hmmm... but using the right flags for compilation should be possible to port	16:28
wazd	hello zenvoid :)	16:28
Stskeeps	zenvoid: yeah, - just building all the needed packages	16:28
zenvoid	hello wazd :)	16:28
zenvoid	the xserver is also different	16:29
Khertan	so you make different build for 770 and n8x0 ?	16:29
Stskeeps	Khertan: no, we don't need to (we do need to change some kernel modules, but thats about it), ubuntu is optimized for armv5te	16:29
Stskeeps	which works on armv6te too	16:29
Stskeeps	zenvoid: yeah, - we had a bit of a split between Xorg and Xomap too, but we are on Xorg now	16:29
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Khertan	hum ... optimized like using a 32bits system on 64bits arch ? :)	16:30
zenvoid	I have an n810 and 770, and compiled maemo for both with different optimized flags	16:30
zenvoid	the trick was to use a wrapper	16:30
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zenvoid	basically a shell script called "gcc" that calls the real gcc	16:30
Stskeeps	zenvoid: additionally our relation to Nokia is based on the invitation in http://maemo.org/news/announcements/first_maemo_5_sdk_release_targeting_platform_developers/ ("This early release..")	16:31
zenvoid	with the correct flags	16:31
Stskeeps	zenvoid: it's also possible to use SBOX_COMPILER_ARGS posibly	16:31
Stskeeps	Khertan: yeah, using HWCAP to optimize certain libraries	16:31
Khertan	:)	16:32
zenvoid	I will try SBOX_COMPILER_ARGS, I just discovered this var right now ;-)	16:32
Stskeeps	zenvoid: besides that there's always the brainstorms on http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed -> http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint -> http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint_New	16:33
Stskeeps	the last one is probably going to be rewritten :P	16:33
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Khertan	hum ... mer will have his own repository ?	16:34
Stskeeps	and in additional to people above, andrewfblack works on an Echo-like theme for Mer as well :P	16:34
zenvoid	it will be an interesting weekend hacking my n810 :)	16:34
Stskeeps	hehe	16:34
b-man	hello	16:34
Khertan	but does we will be able to use the extras and extras-devel on it ?	16:34
andrewfblack	Stskeeps: Speaking of that I really need a new name for it it looks nothing like Echo now lol	16:35
Stskeeps	andrewfblack: MerAndrew? ;)	16:35
Khertan	lol	16:35
Stskeeps	Khertan: yes, the idea is to be able to recompile without issue (provided you haven't used non-portable stuff)	16:35
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Stskeeps	but when you've compiled, your stuff will work on x86, n8x0, zaurus, etc	16:35
Khertan	great	16:35
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: will the latest installer handle nm-applet?	16:35
Stskeeps	b-man: what url does your installer point to?	16:36
b-man	0.6	16:36
b-man	hold on, i'll grab it	16:36
b-man	http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/mer-armel-n8x0-image-v0.6.tar.gz	16:37
Stskeeps	k, ta	16:37
zenvoid	Stskeeps: I prefer sb2 over the old scratchbox, but currently has a bug:	16:37
zenvoid	http://lists.scratchbox.org/pipermail/scratchbox-devel/2008-December/000425.html	16:37
Khertan	is it useable at this time ?	16:37
Stskeeps	zenvoid: do you use the Maemo-SDK+ qemu?	16:37
Stskeeps	(trust me, it helps)	16:38
Meiz_n810	:(	16:38
Meiz_n810	it did not ask me where to install	16:38
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Stskeeps	again?	16:38
zenvoid	Stskeeps: yes I use it	16:38
Meiz_n810	again	16:38
b-man	what!?!?	16:38
Stskeeps	zenvoid: but yeah, sb2 has a lot of those quirks	16:39
Stskeeps	i spent a couple of weeks on it but went back to sb1	16:39
Meiz_n810	and it did not aks me what partition to use for swap	16:39
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: i'm going to owe you a bottle of vodka or two at some point :P	16:39
Meiz_n810	i'm gonna reboot and see if that helps	16:39
b-man	0_o	16:39
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: lol	16:39
b-man	it worked fine for me 0_o	16:40
Meiz_n810	:) rebooting now	16:40
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: edit the installer script btw and use /mer/mer-n800-fs-only-image.tar.gz instead of the 0.6	16:40
Khertan	do you plan to deliver Mer with applications ? does there is some decision already done about that ?	16:40
Stskeeps	Khertan: a X terminal is basic - but yes, of course we hope to deliver it with content	16:41
Stskeeps	but content that can be removed easily	16:41
Stskeeps	so anyone can build their own firmware image if wanted :P	16:41
Stskeeps	(bake your own)	16:41
Khertan	stskeeps, and a web browser, to found the xterm command help :)	16:41
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Stskeeps	Khertan: yeah, i hope we'll be able to have tablet-browser-ui at some point, and of course, webkit engine ;)	16:42
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Khertan	Stskeeps: for me making my own image isn't a priority ... it s more easy to use apt-get install :)	16:42
Stskeeps	hehe	16:42
RST38h	Send in your proposals, quick: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2009/01/15/nfc_forum_comp_extended/	16:42
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Stskeeps	zenvoid: anyway, if you'd like to, sign up on launchpad, and request to join https://launchpad.net/~mer-committers	16:43
Khertan	RST38h: ? what is NFC Forum's ?	16:44
Stskeeps	it's our current cooperation infrastructure until garage git is okay	16:44
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RST38h	Khertan: NFCs are Near Field Communication devices	16:44
Khertan	ah ... ;)	16:45
RST38h	Khertan: smart RFID transmitters built into your phone and letting you pay for things basically	16:45
b-man	Stskeeps: you want me to change mer-armel-n8x0-image-v0.6.tar.gz to mer-n800-fs-only-image.tar.gz instead? :)	16:45
zenvoid	Stskeeps: thanks, I will sign up there	16:45
RST38h	Khertan: it is not clear why this stuff should be expensive though	16:45
Stskeeps	b-man: nah, not right now	16:45
Stskeeps	b-man: it was just for meiz testing	16:45
b-man	k	16:46
Stskeeps	b-man: having ability to edit url that it gets the image from could help though	16:46
Khertan	RST38h: to resume : something useless and expensive which can seriously break anonimity	16:46
b-man	you can :)	16:46
b-man	from a zenity window	16:46
Stskeeps	zenvoid: we have a builder of sorts that builds x86 and armv5te packages and uploads to repository on http://jaiku.com/channel/merbuilder (just msg me your mail address if you want a jaiku invite	16:46
RST38h	Khertan: lots of thingscan break anonymity (you are paying with credit card,s aren't you? :))	16:46
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Khertan	RST38h: i don't understand why it so expensive ... i ve a train pass in my pocket which already have rfid ...	16:47
Meiz_n810	b-man / Stskeeps: http://pastebin.com/m1f2a625b	16:47
RST38h	Khertan: What makes this particular one more expensive thaan average rfid chip (few pennies) with I2C inerface is unclear	16:47
Khertan	RST38h: i try to avoid ... :)	16:47
Stskeeps	zenvoid: and a microblogging on http://jaiku.com/channel/reconstructedPOC :)	16:47
Stskeeps	zenvoid: sorry for all the information, i should really put this in a page :)	16:47
RST38h	Khertan: what a terrorist you are! =)	16:47
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Khertan	RST38h: nope ... my phone is connected :)	16:48
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zenvoid	Stskeeps: haha :-) I'm bookmarking all those urls...	16:48
Khertan	Stskeeps: hope info on mer grabbed on the fly ...	16:48
RST38h	Khertan: see, can't avoid it	16:48
Khertan	stskeeps: i don't ask before as i don't want to disturb you to get a stable mer release as soon as possible :)	16:49
Stskeeps	Khertan: i'm always up for discussion	16:49
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b-man	Meiz_n810: hold on, i'll upload a fix for that in a sec	16:50
Stskeeps	Khertan: the only risk is that people end up actually taking part themselves when discussing the issues ;)	16:50
Meizirkki	Stskeeps: i have one suggestion about the start-hildon script, if you remove the "-dialog_mode static" from matchbox-window-manager startup command, dialogs can be moved, but they still appear in right place	16:51
Stskeeps	b-man: put "set -x -e" in the top of your script after #!/bin/sh	16:51
andrewfblack	Had some complants about the arrows I used in MerEcho so I redid them all new screenshot https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/5232/screenshot02.png	16:51
Stskeeps	b-man: that way it stops when it encounters an error	16:51
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b-man	ok, thanks :)	16:51
Khertan	Stskeeps: héhé	16:51
Stskeeps	Meizirkki: interesting	16:51
RST38h	Hohoho: http://www.newscientist.com/article/mg20126911.300-our-world-may-be-a-giant-hologram.html?DCMP=OTC-rss&nsref=online-news	16:51
Stskeeps	RST38h: that explains Bush.	16:51
mavhc	your mom's a giant hologram	16:52
RST38h	andrew: yep, much nicer	16:52
Stskeeps	in star trek, there were always the obnoxious characters in holoprograms	16:52
Stskeeps	:P	16:52
Stskeeps	andrewfblack: looks good :)	16:52
RST38h	Sts: the only thing that explains Bush is a story of apocalypsis	16:52
RST38h	Sts: He is one of the horses.	16:53
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andrewfblack	I feel its just about done unless you guys can thing of anything else let me know	16:54
RST38h	andrew: you may want to fill the scroll bar background with some pattern	16:54
b-man	Meiz_n810: fixed the problem, it turned out that it was looking for partitions.lst in the wrong path :p	16:55
RST38h	andrew: if you are definitely AGAINST having a background there, at least draw a thin dashed or dotted line that shows where the scroll bar is	16:55
* b-man starts re-building deb		16:55
andrewfblack	RST38h I'll take a look at it with pattern or with just a line	16:55
mavhc	"shaped like a Pringle" -- apparently noone knows what saddles are anymore	16:56
Stskeeps	zenvoid: anyway, when you're too shell shocked from reading all the material, i'd like to know what areas you like to work on with regards to Maemo platform and such :)	16:56
* lardman wonders if there's an alarm clock on his n810		16:56
Stskeeps	like, what you think is fun :)	16:56
Stskeeps	lardman: there's one in Clock application	16:56
Jaffa	lardman: Built-in `Clock' app has alarm feature	16:56
lardman	thanks chaps	16:57
RST38h	mavhc: Pringles producer paid for placing an ad =)	16:57
Stskeeps	lardman: don't rely on it though :P	16:57
Jaffa	TTOTD: Don't rely on a tablet for anything	16:57
GeneralAntilles	Only Nokia could make an alarm clock fail.	16:57
lardman	Stskeeps: yeah, ok	16:57
mavhc	Results 1 - 3 of 3 for pringle saddle negative-curve	16:57
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RST38h	alarm clock is nothing	16:58
Khertan	GeneralAntilles: nope ... try the palm one	16:58
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RST38h	on S60, status screen and screensaver often crash	16:58
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RST38h	nokia even hides the error mesages starting with s60e3	16:58
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zenvoid	Stskeeps: yeah, I need to rebuild/hack and get an overall idea of the current state, and then I'll probably know what to do :P	17:00
Stskeeps	hehe	17:00
Stskeeps	a SD card on 2gb is a good tool at least :)	17:00
Stskeeps	zenvoid: oh, and r2d2rogers does the 770 port	17:01
Stskeeps	just so you know who's-who	17:01
Stskeeps	we have some awkward sapwood problems on there, but that's a different saga	17:01
zenvoid	oh, yes, I hate the sapwood engine	17:02
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zenvoid	in fact, it is partially replaced by clearlooks in my theme	17:03
Stskeeps	clearlooks?	17:03
zenvoid	yes... give me a minute, I will upload the debs to a public space	17:03
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Stskeeps	what tool do you use for theme making btw? kontorri's?	17:03
andrewfblack	RST38h: I ran a simple lin to connect the arrows on both sides it looks good but I'm not going to make a new release for a few days	17:05
andrewfblack	but you can grab it from http://www.andrewblck.com/Stuff/Themes	17:05
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RST38h	andrew: do check if a dashed or dotted line looks better	17:07
b-man	Meiz_n810: http://trac.tspre.org/bman/merinstaller_1.6.1-1_armel.deb - shuld fix the problem	17:07
Stskeeps	you better have added the -x -e ;)	17:08
andrewfblack	time to get some food and watch some TV	17:08
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b-man	Stskeeps: i did ;)	17:08
GAN800	Sounds like a superhero.	17:10
GAN800	Andrew F Black away!	17:10
b-man	dramatic hero music	17:10
b-man	Stskeeps: adding set -e -x in the script causes the installer to fail :(	17:13
Stskeeps	b-man: fair enough, where does it fail?	17:13
b-man	right at the simple/advanced stage	17:14
Stskeeps	pastebin what happens :)	17:14
b-man	k	17:14
zenvoid	I'm looking at the MerEcho screenshot, it looks great	17:17
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zenvoid	anyways, here is another theme if someone wants to try:	17:18
zenvoid	http://zenvoid.org/tmp/	17:18
b-man	Stskeeps: http://pastebin.ca/1309183	17:18
b-man	it doesn't seem to display an error, witch is strange	17:19
Stskeeps	b-man: #	17:20
Stskeeps	b-man: + [ = 1 ]	17:20
Stskeeps	#	17:20
Stskeeps	sh: 1: unknown operand	17:20
Stskeeps	btw?	17:20
Stskeeps	you should do if [ x$whatever = x1 ] :)	17:20
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b-man	thanks	17:22
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Stskeeps	b-man: the reason why it stops is cos gxmessage returns 1 or 2	17:22
Stskeeps	basically you should add some error handlers..	17:22
b-man	how can i do that?	17:23
* Stskeeps ponders if sh has an "or die" thing		17:23
b-man	hehe	17:24
RST38h	nope	17:24
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Meiz_n810	URL=http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/mer-armel-n8x0-image-v0.6.tar.gz	17:24
Meiz_n810	ok?	17:24
Meiz_n810	is there a newer one?	17:24
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: yeah, editing that one, to the one i mentioned earlier	17:25
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Meiz_n810	ok	17:25
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Stskeeps	b-man: if [ $? != 0 ]; then something bad happened fi	17:25
Stskeeps	after running a command	17:25
Stskeeps	(and remove the set -x -e again	17:25
Stskeeps	basically any command that -needs- to work	17:26
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Stskeeps	(dont ask this with zenity for instance	17:26
b-man	ok	17:26
Stskeeps	zenvoid: the advantage of sapwood is however the caching of pixmaps	17:27
Stskeeps	btw https://code.launchpad.net/~carsten-munk/m-r/hildon-theme-layout-4 is our theme layout	17:27
Stskeeps	394 is the most important	17:27
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zenvoid	Stskeeps: yes, I know, sapwood is good for the hildon menu and other things... while trying to port apps I've noticed some gtk widgets not themed...	17:29
Stskeeps	nod	17:30
zenvoid	and then I mixed both sapwood and clearlooks	17:30
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: btw, release announcement says per-week alpha sdk updates (-when alpha comes out-)	17:30
Stskeeps	which is probably why we haven't gotten it yet :)	17:30
GAN800	Yeah, should be soon.	17:30
RST38h	weekly cvssnapshotsshouldnotbethathard	17:31
GAN800	Yeah, we're in pre-alpha	17:31
GAN800	Stskeeps, and, yes, I'm aware of the plan. I've talked to Quim about it.	17:31
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GAN800	Soon.	17:32
Stskeeps	alright	17:32
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Stskeeps	i'll be pretty furious if alpha sdk comes out in the next 7 days, really :)	17:33
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Stskeeps	when that happened last time i was in the midst of finishing my semester :P	17:33
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Stskeeps	and scaringily, maemo >= homework	17:34
Stskeeps	:P	17:34
Khertan	OH MY GOD !!!! NOOOOOO !!! I NEED TO INSTALL VISUAL STUDIO ON MY WORK COMPUTER !	17:35
RST38h	Hehe.	17:35
Stskeeps	Khertan: thinking about quitting?	17:36
RST38h	So, what will it be: C# or VB.NET?	17:36
zenvoid	I feel your pain, man ;-)	17:36
lardman	still supports C too ;)	17:36
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Khertan	RST38h: the two in the same project !	17:37
suihkulokki	Khertan: there is no limit of Linux/FOSS related jobs all around the world..	17:37
Khertan	suihkulokki: yep all around the world ... this is the problem !	17:38
Khertan	not near my home	17:38
RST38h	Khertan: Secretly implement it all in Python, with C# bindings	17:39
RST38h	Then quit!	17:40
Stskeeps	ironpython? :P	17:40
lcuk	RST38h, you cant do that, they would notice the apps run faster and ask questions	17:40
Khertan	RST38h: hum ... this is a solution ... :)	17:40
suihkulokki	where exactly do live then... ?	17:41
RST38h	lcuk:they will just blaim it on Khertan's superior programming skill	17:41
lcuk	khertan :) if its any consolation im in the same boat :)	17:41
RST38h	s/blaim/blame	17:41
RST38h	no, really, this is getting annoying	17:42
Khertan	i'm the project leader :)	17:42
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Stskeeps	then choose to write it in ironpython	17:43
Stskeeps	.P	17:43
lcuk	then why do you need to install programming language?	17:43
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suihkulokki	besides, "not willing to move" is certainly one of the best ways to avoid exciting jobs :P	17:43
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lcuk	just buy a whip and drum	17:43
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lcuk	suihkulokki, many people cannot upsticks and move, theres families and lives and other complex things	17:44
johnx	not warm O_o	17:44
Stskeeps	morning johnx	17:44
Khertan	because the company is so small that ... a project leader is also a developper :)	17:44
Stskeeps	johnx, meet zenvoid	17:44
lcuk	khertan :)	17:44
zenvoid	Stskeeps: I'm starting to think that there is very little in my maemo fork that could be useful in Mer... I currently have several GB of outdated things in my hard disk and lot of patches packages that I don't even remember :S	17:44
johnx	ah, hey zenvoid :D	17:45
Stskeeps	zenvoid: hehe, on the other hand, your experience is worth a lot	17:45
zenvoid	yeah, time to start again, more fun :-)	17:45
Stskeeps	so what other things did you do than theme, and you mentioned upstart and such?	17:45
zenvoid	Stskeeps: yes, upstart, custom scripts for booting, usbnet integrated in libconic (should be in the connection manager, but it is closed source)	17:47
Meiz_n810	b-man: installer seems to work now :)	17:47
b-man	cool :)	17:47
Meiz_n810	after removing the x=e whaatever	17:47
qwerty12	zenvoid, this wasn't the case then, but you can write plugins for the icd in diablo now	17:48
lcuk	bbl	17:49
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Stskeeps	zenvoid: yeah, icd is a bit of a bitch but it's also a lot better than NM in some ways... :P	17:49
zenvoid	qwerty12: ahh, good to know	17:49
zenvoid	Stskeeps: ... started to replace sounds with free ones (made from scratch, synthesized)	17:49
Stskeeps	zenvoid: oh, we definately need that part too	17:49
Stskeeps	zenvoid: i've had someone complain that the touch screen taps didn't make sounds, when i did Deblet :)	17:50
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zenvoid	Stskeeps: ... and replaced some components with free alternatives. To be honest I must say I forgoten what changes I did, I will take a look at my own code again :-)	17:50
Stskeeps	as it serves as a feedback for some	17:50
Stskeeps	zenvoid: which components for instance? i'm curious :)	17:50
zenvoid	keyboard select in the panel, some applets in the statusbar...	17:51
Stskeeps	nod	17:51
* b-man just designed a much better way for the installer to know weather you've sucsessfuly connected to the wed or not :)		17:51
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zenvoid	... and others I don't remember... I will look :)	17:52
notcoolbuthot	hi, does anyone know how to link the library 'lpthread' into a maemo application so that I can use pthreads ? must something be added to the configure.ac or makefile.am files ?	17:52
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lardman	add it to the linker commands?	17:52
zenvoid	Stskeeps: I can create the sounds, it is very easy with softsynths	17:53
zenvoid	zynaddsubfx, for example	17:53
Stskeeps	yeah.. had a course on digitial audio but i'm not strictly creative in that area	17:53
Stskeeps	digital, i mean	17:53
johnx	zenvoid, this is all great stuff. :D problems we haven't even started to look at are already getting solved :)	17:54
zenvoid	Stskeeps: are you creative in analog audio?	17:54
Stskeeps	zenvoid: not either :>	17:54
lardman	notcoolbuthot: LDFLAGS+=-lpthreads or similar?	17:54
zenvoid	johnx: glad to help	17:54
notcoolbuthot	where should I add them to the linker commands ? I know you can add this library in the command line when gcc-ing from the console	17:54
lardman	what are you compiling?	17:55
notcoolbuthot	but I need it specified in the configure.ac so that in eclipse, the generate configure will work	17:55
notcoolbuthot	I'm compiling a custom application of mine	17:56
zenvoid	Stskeeps: well, neither I do... but I'm in the freepats project :D	17:56
lardman	why not generate the configure script, then call it like so?: "LDFLAGS="-lpthreads" ./configure"	17:56
Khertan	if you need sound ... i can create many !	17:56
zenvoid	Khertan: really?	17:56
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Khertan	nope :)	17:56
zenvoid	:)	17:57
Khertan	depends on what you need	17:57
Stskeeps	Khertan: farting sounds doesn't count ;)	17:57
Khertan	a metal sound theme ?	17:57
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Khertan	some guitar riff ?	17:57
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Khertan	a nice piano melody at startup ?	17:57
qwerty12	Stskeeps, if you (by any chance) need a software midi synthesizer app, I'll put in a plug for timidity :P	17:57
Stskeeps	qwerty12: hehe	17:57
zenvoid	Khertan: that would be nice :)	17:57
johnx	actually a startup piano sound might be kind of nice. definitely different than other systems, which is good	17:58
lardman	hmm, alarm did work, but came up in a normal window, with normal buttons and normal text, not maemo-fied	17:58
Stskeeps	lardman: trying to replicate a bug or?	17:58
wazd	RST38h: Is that too much for symbian?) http://s57.radikal.ru/i157/0901/c3/dd2a9d79183f.png	17:58
Khertan	you see ... saying stupid things can give idea for great things :)	17:59
zenvoid	johnx: it should be very easy to create with free tools, see http://zenvoid.org/audio.html	17:59
Khertan	do you have preferences for the piano melody ?	17:59
zenvoid	it looks that I will be doing audio things :)	17:59
lardman	Stskeeps: no, just reminding myself to go invigilate	17:59
Khertan	jazz / blues / classic ?	17:59
Khertan	or a /dev/random > /dev/sound	17:59
lardman	cu	18:00
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zenvoid	Khertan: Just a few notes, I think...	18:00
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RST38h	wazd: sorry, have been away	18:00
johnx	Khertan, something that makes you think "yay! I just booted into Mer! hope and peace." :)	18:01
Stskeeps	johnx: ocean sound? :P	18:01
wazd	RST38h: np)	18:01
* qwerty12 suggests having forward riddim as the startup tune		18:01
RST38h	wazd: I think Symbian should handle it just fine, unless that black shadow at the LCD screen is a "real" shadow (i.e. based on opacity setting)	18:01
johnx	Stskeeps, with seaguls?	18:01
Stskeeps	johnx: there is actually a sound like that in Maemo	18:01
Stskeeps	in the alarm clock	18:01
Khertan	preferences for real sound (mean recorded for a real piano), or a synthetic one ?	18:01
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wazd	RST38h: nope, that's just black rectangle)	18:01
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johnx	Stskeeps, aaah, yeah the alarm sound that tricks you into thinking you got drunk and fell asleep on the beach again	18:02
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wazd	RST38h: I've done as you said, no gradients and effects	18:02
zenvoid	Khertan: do you have a real piano?	18:02
Stskeeps	johnx: yeah, i've had some pretty interesting final dream moments based on it	18:02
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Khertan	zenvoid: yep	18:02
johnx	Stskeeps, though actually it's less grating than any other alarm I ever had. dunno if it would wake me up after a while though...I might tune it out	18:03
zenvoid	Khertan: oh, that is very good. Do you mind joining to the freepats project? ;-)	18:03
Khertan	freepats ?	18:03
Stskeeps	(http://freepats.opensrc.org/)	18:03
* wazd gone to unload car full of 50kg bags of Rotband x(		18:04
Khertan	hum ... i think i need better tool to record the sound of my piano to get something usefull ...	18:05
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RST38h	wazd: I will try placing it into Maemo and Symbian versions tonight (once I get some free time)	18:06
zenvoid	Khertan: hehe, just the opposite, I have a nice recording equipment and no piano ;-)	18:06
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: installer works so far?	18:07
RST38h	wazd: BTW, you can probably make GB a bit shorter by shrinking space beweeen LCD and buttons - this way it should look closer to the real thing and also the icon can be made a bit bigger	18:07
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Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: yep, it's downloading atm	18:10
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: good	18:10
Stskeeps	and it didn't destroy anything this time? ;)	18:10
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Meizirkki	nope	18:11
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Meizirkki	it works fine so far, now it's unpacking	18:12
zenvoid	anyone tested powerlaunch? http://powerlaunch.garage.maemo.org/	18:12
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qwerty12	I tested it on mer, didn't work so well...	18:13
Stskeeps	zenvoid: it is a very interesting tool but also in dire need of a good HOWTO	18:13
zenvoid	ahh, ok	18:13
Stskeeps	it is basically a small scripting language for event handling	18:13
Meizirkki	zenvoid: last time i tried there was no support for n810, so it did not work in my n810 really well	18:13
Stskeeps	such as, push the top button => show the dialog for shut down, offline mode etc	18:13
Stskeeps	or push twice, rescue mode	18:13
Stskeeps	or other things	18:13
Stskeeps	it is, very powerful, but also in need of some rethinking	18:14
zenvoid	ok	18:14
Stskeeps	and we've considered using it in Mer since it is a systemui and mce replacement	18:15
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zenvoid	that is also the reason that got my attention :)	18:15
Stskeeps	right now we're holding out on OHM release (which should get rid of MCE)	18:16
Stskeeps	but there's a definate need for a powerlaunch like thing to act as an outside process to the hildon desktop, etc	18:16
johnx	Stskeeps, what events does powerlaunch act on? just the buttons?	18:17
Stskeeps	johnx: sec	18:18
zenvoid	will the OHM be on the upcoming maemo 5?	18:18
Stskeeps	zenvoid: yeah	18:18
zenvoid	as opensource?	18:18
Stskeeps	yeah, but it might have some closed source plugins	18:18
johnx	zenvoid, yup. they're pushing it as a solution for other platforms too	18:18
zenvoid	that's very good	18:19
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* johnx RTFM on powerlaunch		18:19
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johnx	ah, touchscreen, keys, dbus, and gconf. awesome	18:20
Meizirkki	it would be nice feature in Mer, that once the screen is locked, cpu is put in powersave	18:20
Stskeeps	johnx: and glade, etc..	18:20
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Meizirkki	maybe not...	18:20
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johnx	Meizirkki, :) There's a neat presentation on how powersaving works on the omap2. any interest?	18:21
Meizirkki	pwrsave mode really saves power but it really slows cpu down too	18:21
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: yes/no - it's more on the lines of "if you want to make this happen, you can do it quite easily by scripting X"	18:21
Meizirkki	johnx: yep	18:21
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Stskeeps	johnx: having powerlaunch ported to mer would be a bonus though. but most of the confs have to be rewritten	18:21
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Stskeeps	basically, we should hook austinche in some way to get cracking on Mer.. ;)	18:22
Khertan	Meizirkki: it s not a good idea ... mine many time do many things while screen is locked	18:23
johnx	Meizirkki, http://www.slideshare.net/igor_stoppa_nokia/power-management-for-the-nokia-internet-tablets	18:23
Khertan	Meizirkki: or with an option	18:23
lcuk	Meizirkki, johnx, powersave when locked should be an option only, i routinely run machine using ssh and command line with it totally locked - compilation on device is pretty much 10x slower in powersave vs performance	18:23
Meizirkki	yeah	18:23
* lcuk leaves machine on performance all the time		18:24
zenvoid	I could be implemented as a configurable option in the CP, so everyone is happy	18:24
Khertan	a question lcuk ... when we set the performance mode in liqbase ...	18:24
lcuk	misbehaving applications drain the battery when in performance mode, not the fact its in performance ;)	18:24
Stskeeps	zenvoid: there also exists advanced power which has those kind of options too	18:24
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Khertan	does that is only for liqbase or does it s keep after exiting ?	18:25
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lcuk	no, it leaves it for everything until reboot, but the trunk version here now does it differently, it does a turbo mode - when in certain screens it automatically powers up to performance (with an option of course)	18:25
Khertan	hum ....	18:25
Khertan	as i don't see any differences :)	18:26
Meiz_n810	b-man / Stskeeps: installer finished! :)	18:26
lcuk	dont see any differences where?	18:26
Khertan	so my problem is a memory pb	18:26
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: woo	18:26
Khertan	lcuk: in performances	18:26
Meiz_n810	(i did not flash bootmenu	18:26
lcuk	performance of what though?	18:26
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: you had deblet bootmenu before?	18:26
lcuk	gcc runs really fast in performance and crap in powersave	18:26
Stskeeps	as in, do you have bootmenu right now?	18:27
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: yes	18:27
Khertan	of my apps, webpage parsing ... and many other things	18:27
Stskeeps	k	18:27
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: feel free to check if the .item matches your expectations	18:27
Stskeeps	(actually, pastebin me it.)	18:27
lcuk	khertan, your biggest problem is python itself :)	18:27
Stskeeps	the one it generated	18:27
Khertan	lcuk: nope	18:27
johnx	Meizirkki, the short version of that presentation is: when the omap2 is idle (ie, no programs are trying to do something) the CPU turns off and a 32KHz timer runs to keep track of when to wake up again. so performance mode or powersave mode doesn't matter as long as notthing is running	18:27
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Khertan	the biggest one is browserd	18:27
lcuk	johnx, is that the reason why i can run in performance all day - ie justification for what i said up there?	18:28
johnx	lcuk, exactly. :) you'd probably like that presentation too	18:28
lcuk	khertan, what are you using browserd for?	18:28
RST38h	lcuk: Give up already and compile on the host	18:28
lcuk	yeah please	18:28
lcuk	no rst	18:28
lcuk	there is a reason im working directly from the device	18:29
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: no quotation marks...	18:29
RST38h	they have taken your computer away? =)	18:29
Meiz_n810	http://pastebin.com/m565f7c01	18:29
johnx	quick read. lots of nice pictures :) if you missed it search for 'slideshare.com' in your scrollback	18:29
Khertan	lcuk : for reading the gtk documentation	18:29
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lcuk	lower the bar for native applet/small application development to simply become "install IDE on windows/linux/max host and run	18:29
qwerty12	That item actually works?	18:29
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Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: okay, think we should get bman to look at that	18:30
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: mmcblk0 is the external card to use with initfs btw	18:30
Jaffa	lcuk: hear hear	18:30
Meiz_n810	ok	18:30
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Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: is it the installer .item or your own?	18:30
RST38h	lcuk: well, it is close to that, with some unfortunate gotchas	18:30
RST38h	lcuk: is that wrong though?	18:31
Meizirkki	johnx: ok	18:31
johnx	RST38h, yeah, like: if you're on windows, fuck off and die	18:31
RST38h	johnx: yep ;)	18:31
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: installer of course	18:31
johnx	RST38h, turns out windows guys want to write us apps too. I don't think a trial by fire is necessary...	18:31
Jaffa	And OS X too	18:32
RST38h	johnx: Ubuntu is relatively painless to install even for a Windows guy	18:32
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: alright	18:32
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RST38h	johnx: You end up sacrificing 5-10GB of your HD though	18:32
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: can you check if it boots (i presume you have a boot menu item alrady)?	18:33
johnx	RST38h, yeah, but dual booting is annoying and many people actually don't want to mess around running a VM	18:33
Meiz_n810	ok	18:33
zenvoid	RST38h: there is nothing more painful than installing vista, man ;-)	18:33
* Meiz_n810 boots		18:33
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qwerty12	zenvoid, haha, I've installed vista 7 times (upgrades & fresh installs)... :P	18:33
lcuk	dual booting, vmware, scratchbox all make it HARD. sure for some levels of dev its required but not for the sorts of things most people wanna write	18:33
RST38h	johnx: Well, if you remember I have always insisted on having a "normal" Maemo SDK, but given that it is not going to happen, Ubuntu is the only way	18:33
RST38h	johnx: It is better than typing and compiling on a tablet	18:34
johnx	RST38h, not so sure on that...	18:34
RST38h	johnx: try ;)	18:34
* RST38h did		18:34
lcuk	adv-* series all can be done on device, all the alarm clock applets games and funky stuff. simple little starter projects :)	18:34
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Meizirkki	Stskeeps: seems to boot..	18:34
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lcuk	anyway, bbl :)	18:35
johnx	RST38h, so did I. sometimes it's a good first test: does this work if I compile native? then I can sort out cross-compile errors later	18:35
Meizirkki	i love the mer splash-screen :)	18:35
Stskeeps	Meizirkki: you should see the rescue menu too	18:35
RST38h	johnx: I can't edit on a tablet even if I can compile there, sorry	18:35
johnx	RST38h, and if you have a small codebase and don't need to compile support libs it's totally tractable, especially if you can do it in an sd chroot	18:35
RST38h	johnx: there is no way to do reliable input right now	18:35
qwerty12	Stskeeps, have you released any new tarballs recently?	18:35
Meizirkki	Stskeeps, i'll try the rescue menu too, it worked in my earlier installation	18:36
johnx	RST38h, yeah, no shit. I might show my ignorance but is there a reason you can't edit in an IDE, then rsync to the tablet and tell it "compile this"?	18:36
Stskeeps	qwerty12: i have a unofficial one atm	18:36
qwerty12	ah, fair enough	18:36
RST38h	johnx: Yes there is a reason	18:36
Meizirkki	Stskeeps: pressing enter in h-i-m seems to crash Xorg too	18:36
Meizirkki	not sure	18:36
Stskeeps	Meizirkki: ..	18:36
Stskeeps	lovely	18:36
johnx	ahaha	18:36
johnx	enter and backspace	18:37
RST38h	johnx: I have got a much faster compiler where I have got IDE, so why compile on a tablet? =)	18:37
johnx	RST38h, options. it's all about options :)	18:37
RST38h	johnx: nah, it is about common sense	18:37
johnx	being able to compile on the tablet does not preclude compiling in scratchbox. if I couldn't do both I would have given up by now	18:37
RST38h	johnx: most commercial developers will use the easiest, fastest, most painless route	18:37
RST38h	johnx: So, options are good, but the only option that gets used in practice is the sanest one	18:38
johnx	RST38h, right now there isn't a route that fits that description and so they just go away	18:38
RST38h	johnx: they go away for a different reason - no market	18:38
qwerty12	Why is this channel home to some of the most pointless arguments?	18:38
RST38h	johnx: if there were a market, you wouldn't see them going away ;)))	18:38
Stskeeps	qwerty12: it's IRC?	18:38
RST38h	qwerty: it is irc!	18:38
zenvoid	"Common sense is the collection of prejudices acquired by age eighteen" -- Albert Einstein	18:38
qwerty12	Stskeeps, RST38h: hehe :P	18:38
johnx	RST38h, any roadblock removed is a good thing in my opinion	18:39
Stskeeps	qwerty12: there's bound to be some golden nuggets in the discussions once in a while though	18:39
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wazd	I'm back	18:39
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wazd	But that was too heavy for me)	18:39
RST38h	johnx: we won't see this happen any time soon, so realistically, just have to live with things as they are =(	18:39
johnx	wazd, it builds character :)	18:39
RST38h	wazd: piano delivery? =)	18:40
Stskeeps	b-man: installer works good but there's problems with the bootmenu item generation	18:40
wazd	RST38h: kinda)	18:40
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johnx	RST38h, easily compiling anything natively is already possible in Mer. It's just a question of becoming more popular than Nokia's distro :)	18:40
b-man	http://trac.tspre.org/bman/merinstaller_1.7.1-1_armel.deb uploaded - includes a re-designed wifi connection system and has a fuew minor fixes	18:40
Stskeeps	b-man: http://pastebin.com/m565f7c01 - you should use "'s in the output (use \" when outputting), missing ITEM_MODULES, ITEM_FSTYPE, and ITEM_DEVICE should be ${INT_CARD}pX or ${EXT_CARD}pX	18:41
b-man	ok, will do ;)	18:41
Stskeeps	hehe, just trying to help :)	18:41
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b-man	:)	18:42
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RST38h	johnx: one answer: speed	18:43
RST38h	johnx: You can easily compile whatever you want but it takes ages	18:44
RST38h	So there is really no reason to do it, considering that you can't edit your code on the device well enough	18:44
johnx	RST38h, Sorry. I'm done with this argument. got packages to hack on	18:45
Khertan	merinstaller ...	18:45
Khertan	i would like to try the current mer version	18:45
Khertan	does i should try the mer installer ... ?	18:45
Khertan	does it flash	18:45
Stskeeps	Khertan: the current setup is one that installs to a SD card, partitions it for you, and puts on the image for it	18:46
Stskeeps	we will -also- have kernel + rootfs images	18:46
* b-man reviews some code		18:46
Stskeeps	b-man: i wonder if we can do a "I can see that you have cloned your Maemo OS to SD, want me to make a bootmenu item for it?"	18:47
Stskeeps	that would help a lot	18:47
b-man	shure :)	18:47
Stskeeps	just remember how many people complained when deblet installer didn't make a bootmenu item :P	18:47
b-man	hehe	18:48
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Khertan	Stskeeps: so in need a boot menu :)	18:48
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Stskeeps	Khertan: hopefully it will be piece of cake to get :)	18:48
Khertan	can do it myseld	18:48
Khertan	s/myseld/myself	18:48
b-man	Stskeeps: does our kernel support usplash?	18:48
Stskeeps	b-man: no clue - we dont use usplash	18:49
Stskeeps	we use a custom made thing	18:49
Khertan	the problem is that i want to keep my external card in fat32	18:49
Khertan	for file transfer	18:49
johnx	Khertan, could you resize the fat32 partition?	18:49
Stskeeps	Khertan: basically there's two modes: simple - choose which SD you want to install into, and it'll make a fat32 partition, swap and rest ext3	18:50
Khertan	and can't use the internal one in ext2 or ext3 as the swap file on maemo 4 is in the internal	18:50
b-man	i have it installed in ubuntu and it's not working so i'm guessing no :)	18:50
Stskeeps	and advanced where you can choose how the partition one wants looks	18:50
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Khertan	johnx> hum ... not a great idea to resize a fat32 partition :)	18:50
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johnx	Khertan, why not?	18:50
Khertan	anyway ... i ll do things differently ...	18:51
johnx	seems to be working fine for me	18:51
Khertan	keep my data on internal meme	18:51
Khertan	memory ... and use the external card in ext3	18:51
Stskeeps	Khertan: it is always possible to have a secondary external card though :)	18:51
RST38h	johnx: Have you seen the ubuntu woman story this morning btw?	18:51
johnx	RST38h, already commented on it when you posted. don't really want to argue about it	18:51
Khertan	Stskeeps: yep ... but i don't want to bought an other microsd as i have plenty of useless sd card	18:52
RST38h	johnx: Who told you I was going to argue about it? :)	18:52
* b-man need to go, bye :)		18:52
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johnx	RST38h, my original comment was something like "newsflash: dumb people are dumb, the register is a troll. story at 11." :)	18:52
johnx	RST38h, and also that you could just as well do s/dell with ubuntu/mac/ and have the same story	18:53
Khertan	so i ll try to install it tomorrow ... :)	18:53
RST38h	johnx: oh, I have seen such stories with Macs, although they may have been on Onion :)	18:54
Khertan	a question if i format my sd card to ext2 ... when i mount it on linux does it ll be see as a mass storage and mount it ?	18:54
Khertan	(i mean when i connect my nit to a computer running a gnu/linux os)	18:55
Stskeeps	Khertan: if you use our installer it gives you a 50mb fat32 partition in the beginning, so it'll see it as mass storage	18:55
Stskeeps	it would actually see the ext2 too i guess	18:55
Stskeeps	it's just partitions, so :)	18:55
Khertan	Stskeeps: yep but as you know ... usb things are always strange	18:56
Stskeeps	Khertan: yeah :P	18:56
Khertan	like usb hard drive ...	18:56
Khertan	i still not understand why usb was so used ...	18:56
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Khertan	there are other great way than that ... like firewire :)	18:57
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Khertan	or eSCSI	18:57
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johnx	Khertan, because usb ports were on everyone's computer since 1998	18:58
johnx	never even saw a machine with eSCSI and firewire everyone seems to be a much more recent phenomemon. though, the tablet acts very normal in usb disk mode. just like a card reader	18:59
johnx	s/everyone/everywhere/ <- fail	18:59
glass	dunno really anyone who used firewire for anything else than old ipods and dv cameras	18:59
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* RST38h just used 1394 a few days ago		19:00
johnx	the one place where firewire wins hands down is the mac 'target disk mode'	19:01
Khertan	johnx > i have firewire since 1995 on a mac computer	19:04
Khertan	maybe this is that	19:04
RST38h	johnx: What a wonderful use for a Mac!	19:04
* RST38h hides		19:04
johnx	RST38h, admining macbooks / macbook pros is like the most trouble free job I ever had	19:05
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RST38h	johnx: with features like that no wonder	19:05
johnx	RST38h, yeah, mass multicast imaging was awesome. and target disk mode was awesome. only pain I ever had was making them sync to WinMo phones (don't ask me, that wasn't my call)	19:07
RST38h	urgh	19:08
Khertan	(don't ask me, that wasn't my call) .... haha !	19:08
Khertan	:)	19:08
johnx	and honestly, I spent as much time supporting two freaking windows boxen as I did 30+ Macs in three different locations	19:09
RST38h	Motorola kaputs another 4000 people	19:10
johnx	so no razr v3adskg this year?	19:10
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Stskeeps	4000? jesus	19:11
RST38h	johnx: they still have a lineup of some kind	19:11
johnx	Sony isn't doing so hot either	19:11
RST38h	johnx: mostly budget phones with smartphone stuff centered around not yet ready android models	19:11
RST38h	johnx: but with losses like these, who knows?	19:11
RST38h	wazd: Around?	19:12
johnx	RST38h, yeah...will be an interesting year (in the same sense as "May you live in interesting times.")	19:13
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wazd	RST38h: http://dump.ru/file/1432736 <- svg file, check if it's ok (Gameboy icon)	19:14
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Stskeeps	johnx: what's your status btw? (not sure what you're working on :P)	19:16
johnx	actually, was just gonna ask: anything I should be doing?	19:16
johnx	I could look at powerlaunch, but there's questions as to how it fits in with OHM, right? and did you already poke at icon stuff?	19:16
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wazd	RST38h: on small resolutions it still looks near photoreal :)	19:17
Jaffa	i18n? ;-)	19:17
Stskeeps	johnx: dbus i'd say	19:17
johnx	dbus what?	19:17
Stskeeps	oh. powered = mce and powerlaunch is seperate	19:17
Stskeeps	i think	19:18
wazd	Stupid moto	19:18
wazd	Android was their real chance	19:18
Stskeeps	johnx: erm, give me a sec while i get a sandwich and think :)	19:18
johnx	wazd, don't count them out yet. look what palm did :)	19:18
* Stskeeps is not on a balanced diet today		19:18
johnx	mmm...sammiches	19:18
wazd	They have awesome hardware designers and totaly sick software idiots	19:18
RST38h	wazd: check this out: http://2009.nseries.com/competition/about.aspx	19:18
RST38h	wazd: it may be of interest (no programming involved too)	19:19
* b-man is never on a balanced diet		19:19
wazd	RST38h: oh! Thanks!)	19:19
* wazd interested		19:19
RST38h	wazd: got the svg, thanks. checking how it renders	19:20
qwerty12	Stskeeps, does vte9 actually compile in your sdk? I'm getting an anal error on http://pastebin.com/d2c050172	19:20
wazd	RST38h: btw do you know any host that can show svg right in the browser	19:20
wazd	RST38h: dump.ru is sucks hardly	19:21
RST38h	wazd: you mean online svg->bmp converter?	19:21
lcuk	RST38h, notice the picture shows a square widget, however they want a postbox thin widget in rules	19:21
RST38h	Your FireFox browser will show .svg files directly afaik	19:21
RST38h	lcuk: it is Nokia	19:21
qwerty12	I think he means a host that will show the image in the webpage without you having to download it to see it	19:21
RST38h	lcuk: (if you know what I mean)	19:22
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* RST38h will do new VGB-Maemo package first		19:23
wazd	RST38h: No, I need some file hosting with direct file access	19:23
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Stskeeps	qwerty12: i suspected not	19:24
Stskeeps	qwerty12: gdk problems so	19:24
Stskeeps	when linking to it	19:24
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qwerty12	ah, I've done a quick merge of the maemo changes from vte4 to vte9, would like to see what changes I'd have to make for it to compile	19:25
wazd	whoa, that widget competition is definitely for me :)	19:25
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RST38h	wazd: Ok, then I would suggest Google Pages	19:26
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Stskeeps	johnx: i guess icon theme is a bit pressing right now, but it might drive you insane	19:27
Stskeeps	good place to start is file chooser	19:28
johnx	Stskeeps, just a question of seeing what icons are missing, and finding a good dfsg compliant icon to replace them with, right?	19:28
Stskeeps	johnx: well, i think the icons are actually there	19:29
Stskeeps	they're just not picked up	19:29
RST38h	Shit, why are all gnome programs so large? Inkscape with dependencies takes 85MB	19:29
johnx	not the right name? not in the right place? or something about the index for the theme?	19:29
johnx	RST38h, compare to the size of illustrator	19:30
* b-man thinks about installing the new mer rescue menu in ubuntu jaunty :)		19:30
Stskeeps	johnx: that's what i couldn't figure out :)	19:30
Stskeeps	it complains of icon size 0 for instance	19:31
johnx	ok, well, I'll at least do some detective work on it then	19:31
Stskeeps	alright	19:31
johnx	actually sounds fun :)	19:31
Stskeeps	.xsession-errors is a good place to start, and the background image chooser	19:31
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johnx	ah, also had an idea: setting up swap as part first-boot-wizard	19:32
johnx	thoughts?	19:32
Stskeeps	thumbs up, scan for swap partitions or something :P	19:32
RST38h	johnx: But I am not even installing illustrator :)	19:32
Stskeeps	.. or make a file, hmm	19:32
johnx	scan for swap partition, then offer to make a swap file of a certain size if none found and RAM <64MB?	19:32
* b-man also thinks about changing the rescue menu artwork and modifing the splash screen for a ubuntu logo :)		19:32
RST38h	johnx: btw windoze version of inkscape is for some reason only 20+MB	19:33
Stskeeps	johnx: fair enough	19:33
johnx	RST38h, it's because linux is tehsuxx0r :)	19:33
mgedmin	nooo, it's lunix that's tehsuxx0r	19:33
mgedmin	linux's evil twin	19:34
Stskeeps	b-man: hopefully ubuntu wraps into mer nicely though, so we have a mer baseline and easy ability to include more ubuntu like stuff though	19:34
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Stskeeps	so we dont need to run two dists	19:34
RST38h	Looneex	19:34
RST38h	For real loonies!	19:35
Stskeeps	RST38h: i'd be tempted to call it that..	19:35
RST38h	Sts: it improves with time, sowly	19:35
RST38h	sLowly	19:35
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b-man	Stskeeps: verry true, ubuntu and mer stuff seems to get allong verry well ;)	19:35
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RST38h	Still I would prefer FreeBSD community (if there remained any) - grown bearded people with day jobs	19:36
johnx	RST38h, are you saying inkscape for windows is a 20MB download or a 20MB install?	19:36
RST38h	johnx: I think it installs to something in the 20-30MB range	19:36
RST38h	but it is easy to check, wait	19:36
RST38h	Naaah, 77MB =(	19:37
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pupnik	big thank you for that beautifully fast vgba RST38h	19:37
johnx	RST38h, and the download is 33MB :)	19:37
RST38h	pupnik: Playing Final Fantasy Tactics again? =)	19:38
pupnik	that october release was a real treat	19:38
RST38h	johnx: weirdly, Linux download (with all deps) is smaller	19:38
pupnik	nah, brain-numbing rpgs	19:38
RST38h	pupnik: the speed surprised myself	19:38
johnx	RST38h, inkscape for windows prolly includes gtk	19:38
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RST38h	johnx: and most likely a lot of other crap, won't be surprised to find an embedded perl or python there	19:38
pupnik	did you release the display-writing part of the code RST38h ?	19:39
pupnik	whatever you did for res change / blits	19:39
* wazd came up with widget		19:39
johnx	RST38h, ah, didn't you do some new work on vgba for a different ARM platform recently? does getting those changes into the maemo version look difficult?	19:39
* b-man decides to wipe out his old trashed ubuntu install and set up a new one - wish me luck		19:39
RST38h	johnx: There weren't any changes really	19:39
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RST38h	johnx: and I also did a MIPS port, too	19:40
pupnik	http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1117264/Beam-Scientists-left-baffled-mysterious-columns-coloured-light-appear-night-skies.html beautiful pictures of ice crystals in the air	19:40
johnx	RST38h, aaah, the other ARM chip is just running it faster than our omap2420?	19:40
wazd	Is there any list of current n97 widgets?	19:40
Stskeeps	b-man: did you fix the issue? ;)	19:40
RST38h	johnx: About the same speed I would say. It is the same core and similar clock	19:40
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johnx	RST38h, but you were getting 45fps and I'm only seeing 15 :P	19:41
RST38h	johnx: there is a trick to that	19:41
RST38h	johnx: what you are seeing is the screen update counter. for Maemo VGBA, multiply it by 3.	19:41
johnx	sound stuff?	19:41
b-man	not yet (having annoying issues with variables and qotations in bootmenu item creation) :p	19:42
Stskeeps	k	19:42
AFB\|Away	I want this guys family or friends https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/5232/screenshot02.png	19:42
johnx	err...ok, but it feels like about half to 2/3 speed	19:42
Stskeeps	b-man: post the tar.gz?	19:42
AFB\|Away	opps wrong link lol	19:42
RST38h	I can actually modify Emulib a bit so that it shows the actual frame count, but there will be a few problems in other apps	19:42
AFB\|Away	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=257829#post257829	19:42
RST38h	johnx: Correct. It is doing 45fps for you with the full speed being 60fps	19:42
*** AFB\|Away is now known as Andrewfblack		19:42
johnx	RST38h, aah, gotcha. guess I do need that pandora afterall :)	19:43
Andrewfblack	Anyone use Synergy on there desktops to share a mouse and keyboard on more then one computer?	19:43
b-man	Stskeeps: yes, i've uploaded all of the sorce from each release to http://www.trac.tspre.org/bman	19:43
RST38h	johnx: You can easily compute your own frame count by taking agame with the timer (F-Zero etc) and counting how many actual seconds it takes for the game timer to count 30 seconds	19:43
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johnx	i don't really mind whether it's realtime or not but things like metroid just feel sluggish. I mean, nothing to be done about it. it really just needs faster hardware	19:45
Jaffa	Roll on Spring	19:45
mavhc	how can an n810 be an unwanted gift? madness	19:45
suihkulokki	where do you need VGBA when you have http://jsmario.com.ar/ ? :)	19:46
Jaffa	If you've already got 10?	19:46
Andrewfblack	maybe he's not a nerd?	19:46
RST38h	IWANTEDIPHONEANDALLIGETISTHISSHITTYNOKIA	19:46
RST38h	suihkulokki: have you got these for each of 2000+ GBA games? =)	19:47
b-man	?????? 0_o	19:47
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suihkulokki	:P	19:47
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johnx	kinda skitchy on an a64 3000+	19:48
qwerty12	suihkulokki, mario!? It's all about doom: http://www.kongregate.com/games/mike_id/doom-1 :P	19:49
RST38h	javascript doom?	19:49
qwerty12	flash	19:49
RST38h	how low have we fallen	19:49
Stskeeps	b-man: quick code review: MODULE=mbcache jbd ext3	19:49
Stskeeps	b-man: MODULE="mbcache jbd ext3"	19:49
* RST38h ready to mangle wazd's icon now =)		19:50
b-man	hehe, ok :)	19:50
Stskeeps	echo "ITEM_NAME="Mer on $INST card, $PTN"" > $FILE	19:50
Stskeeps	-> echo "ITEM_NAME=\"Mer on $INST card, $PTN\"" > $FILE	19:51
Stskeeps	and so forth	19:51
b-man	thanks	19:51
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pupnik	any chance of getting linux on n97 someday?	19:53
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Stskeeps	pupnik: ask a nokia coder very nicely at next summit..	19:53
pupnik	:D	19:53
johnx	pupnik, ask them with a frozen trout :)	19:54
qwerty12	Give them vodka	19:54
Corsac	and beer	19:54
johnx	I can at least get you a 640x360 layout now :)	19:54
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b-man	and cigarettes	19:54
b-man	lol	19:54
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pupnik	i feel kinda bad, since symbian's predecessor was so nice on the psions	19:55
pupnik	btw anybody want a slightly busted netbook for parts?	19:55
* b-man starts the ubuntu jaunty bootstrap prosess		19:55
lcuk	wazd, http://liqbase.net/liq.20081102_235650.gary.scr.png	19:55
johnx	pupnik, a couple years ago I would have jumped at it, but I stick to stuff that runs 2.6 these days...	19:56
pupnik	nice textures	19:56
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pupnik	johnx: no progress on kernel for netbooks eh?	19:56
Andrewfblack	better then doom http://www.nihilogic.dk/labs/wolf/	19:56
johnx	pupnik, there's some strongarm progress, but not much. 2.6 is ~80% on the zaurus 5500 and that was where it had the most support	19:56
johnx	there's just too many cheap, powerful ARM machines with more modern CPUs	19:57
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pupnik	it'd be a dream if one could drop an omap3530 board into that case	19:57
b-man	how fast was the zaurus's cpu btw?	19:57
johnx	pupnik, I thought the same about a beagleboard in a zaurus :)	19:58
RST38h	Sorry for asking stupif questions but how the hell do I change canvas size in Inkscape?	19:58
johnx	b-man, the latest zauruses were a 416MHz Xscale PXA270, but our 400MHz OMAP2420 is lots faster...not to mention the zaurus only had 64MB of RAM...	19:59
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RST38h	johnx: Memory performance + cache sizes	19:59
johnx	RST38h, strangely sbc is faster on the zaurus...dunno what that means...	20:00
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RST38h	johnx: What is sbc? The A2DP audio format?	20:00
johnx	yeah	20:00
qwerty12	johnx, I blame the blizzard! :P	20:01
RST38h	well, the codec would be a smallish piece of code running in a loop	20:01
RST38h	in other words, it is completely cacheable and only goes to memory for input data	20:01
RST38h	+ I remember XScale having special instructions for codecs	20:02
johnx	pupnik, yeah, 2.4.27 seems to be the latest I can find. so that rules out modern distros without a lot of hacking... sigh	20:02
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johnx	RST38h, yeah, iwmmxt. possibly gcc can automatically make use of it?	20:02
RST38h	wazd: is it possible to change that svg canvas size so that it has only slim top/bottom margins? About the same size as the actual icon would have?	20:03
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RST38h	johnx: don't think so but codecs are often coded by hand	20:03
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johnx	pupnik, looks like people working on psion 5mx support bought themselves n800s :D	20:05
b-man	qwerty12: no school today? :p	20:05
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pupnik	haha	20:06
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qwerty12	b-man, yes, of course :P. I came back about 3 hours ago (~6:00 PM here)	20:06
RST38h	wazd: oh one more: make the canvas square (sorry but I can't make it in Inkscape for some reason ;()	20:06
b-man	oh, duh	20:06
* b-man calls himself an idot		20:07
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b-man	qwerty12: school was canceld for me because it was too cold here :p	20:08
qwerty12	b-man, damn, some people have all the luck... :P	20:08
b-man	hehe	20:09
b-man	but it's not fun dealing with sub-zero weather eather :p	20:10
wazd	RST38h: sure	20:11
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johnx	pupnik, wait, is that a netbook pro? as in, an xscale?	20:11
wazd	RST38h: I'll enter widget contest with my uni-search idea :)	20:11
RST38h	wazd: Notice that Google may be already there and also the Nokia Search guys	20:11
pupnik	johnx: no, regular netbook	20:12
* RST38h failed resizing the canvas: even doing it in the text editor does not work		20:12
pupnik	with the unreadable 640x480 screen :/	20:12
pupnik	i did have linux running on it	20:12
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RST38h	wazd: also the svg includes some MIMEd jpeg data - not sure what it is bu deleting it seems to work	20:13
johnx	pupnik, I guess I'll wait to see how ARM based "psion doesn't want them to be called netbooks" turn out :)	20:14
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* RST38h still thinks we should call them "comlogs"		20:14
RST38h	At least the ones that can't be called "cheap laptops"	20:15
wazd	RST38h: ah, maybe that's because I had a jpg in there, do draw from :)	20:15
johnx	RST38h, someone came up with MultiMedia Internet Thingy (MMIT or maybe just MIT) and it's starting to grow on me	20:15
lcuk	wazd, they only want a picture	20:16
pupnik	i have to sell an acer aspire one with 9-cell batt, if there are any takers in germany/europe	20:16
RST38h	johnx: abbreviations are bad.	20:16
RST38h	but there is always padlet :)	20:16
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mavhc	network internet tablet	20:17
johnx	won't matter anyways in 3-4 years. We'll have phones and laptops again with all this PDA/NIT/MID/UMPC stuff behind us	20:17
RST38h	johnx: something to play with while standing in line after free soup =)	20:18
mavhc	it's handy having the tablet not be my phone so it doesn't matter if I run the battery down to 0	20:18
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johnx	~lart current battery tech	20:19
johnx	infobot left?	20:19
mavhc	wanna get some ultracapacitor tech on	20:20
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johnx	where's our portable 20year radio-isotope generators?	20:20
mavhc	in space	20:20
*** qwerty12 is now known as infob0t		20:20
johnx	and russian lighthouses	20:20
infob0t	May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, current battery tech !	20:20
mavhc	really? cool	20:20
*** infob0t is now known as qwerty12		20:20
pupnik	hitachi has a plug-n-play container-sized nuclear power plant	20:21
pupnik	no maintenance	20:21
mavhc	what sized container?	20:21
johnx	pupnik, pocketable?	20:21
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wazd	ok, my applet now featuring "coco de mer" request :D	20:23
RST38h	ok, I have got vgb icons into required size!	20:23
zenvoid	I would have some worries in putting a nuclear power plant in the pocket of my pants...	20:24
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mavhc	zenvoid: your kids will have superpowers	20:24
qwerty12	My balls!	20:24
lcuk	zenvoid, don't be worried, we know contact with radiation makes things grow	20:24
johnx	zenvoid, have you seen a Li-ion battery catch on fire?	20:24
zenvoid	hahaha	20:24
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lcuk	just because you might end up with 3 heads and uniballs is secondary	20:25
RST38h	wazd: the original one looks better though =(	20:25
johnx	lcuk, there were some great radioactivity-for-your-health hoaxes when it was first discovered, before that whole "it causes cancer" thing	20:25
lcuk	johnx, they dont catch fire, they vent with plasma	20:25
zenvoid	johnx: ugh, I think I will carry my n810 in the pocket in a backpack :)	20:25
lcuk	make sure you dont leave mouldy fruit in there with it	20:25
johnx	ahaha	20:26
wazd	RST38h: what? icon?)	20:26
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johnx	greatest thread of all time	20:26
pupnik	the BP4L battery is pretty good with number of charge cycles	20:26
pupnik	seems a bit weaker after a year, but still strong	20:26
johnx	pupnik, mine's starting to wear down after almost 2	20:26
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pupnik	i'm beginning to suspect that getting a quality battery (original nokia) is the right choice	20:27
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RST38h	wazd: Yep. When scaling down, the large icon gets antialiased to invisibility	20:29
b-man	johnx; do you think it's safe to install first-boot-wizard in ubuntu jaunty?	20:29
lcuk	johnx, stop watching HD porn movies on it then	20:29
RST38h	wazd: I will try scaling down the svg instead	20:29
johnx	b-man, you want first boot wizard and auto-startx? planning to not use gdm?	20:29
johnx	b-man, I think it should work, but it's pretty easy to just do it manually too. It's mostly for new users	20:30
b-man	no :)	20:30
b-man	ok	20:30
johnx	first-boot-wizard is run from auto-startx	20:30
RST38h	wazd: actually, here is a better idea:	20:30
johnx	you can install it with gdm but you'll never see it :)	20:31
b-man	heh	20:31
lcuk	whos played with QT on this platform? hows it do performance wise, is it still as sluggish as gtk (due to the x11 methods) or does it sidetrack all that and work quickly?	20:31
pupnik	any bets on whether n9x0 will have some kind of video-out?	20:31
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johnx	pupnik, I'm betting it will through a "Nokia A/V connector"	20:31
lcuk	well we have a nokia a/v connector now	20:31
RST38h	wazd: Make you canvas exactly 88x88 pixels and place icon there exactly as it should be seen in the actual icon rectangle (i.e. with a bit of space at the top bottom)	20:31
lcuk	for all the good it does ;)	20:31
Jaffa	pupnik: I'm not holding my breath	20:32
RST38h	wazd: and let me check out the result =)	20:32
pupnik	what do you mean lcuk	20:32
lcuk	jaffa, its a LOT more likely if its using the default framebuffer on the omap and is just wired naturally	20:32
johnx	lcuk, but this time they just need to run some wire and copy the driver from pandora :)	20:32
Jaffa	lcuk: true	20:32
RST38h	I think somebody from Nokia already promised video out on N9x0, no?	20:32
lcuk	i would imagine its easier to implement than to leave off to be honest	20:32
RST38h	Also, both 5800 and N97 have video outs	20:32
Jaffa	pupnik: "Nokia A/V connector" is how the manual refers to the headphone/mic port	20:33
Jaffa	true	20:33
johnx	lcuk, easier to wire it to the A/V connector than to ground out those pins? :)	20:33
RST38h	you probably do need a few extra components when wiring it out	20:33
johnx	RST38h, but other omap2 phones have video out, IIRC. it's just our LCD controller situation ...	20:33
lcuk	johnx, im betting the reference boards all have it and it will be more complex to alter the board and ensure it doesnt get strange anomalies than just to use it as is	20:34
pupnik	would be pretty slick to be able to watch vids on tvs - (visiting friends etc)	20:34
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Jaffa	The existing Nokia devices, is it just composite?	20:35
RST38h	johnx: it is also Nokia's idea of product differentiation	20:35
lcuk	johnx, our LCD controller is just carry over from the 770 design	20:35
RST38h	johnx: if Nokia marketing decides that it is "not a visual media device" you do not get the video out	20:35
RST38h	johnx: example: E71	20:35
Jaffa	Video out fits with the summit mutterings about 3wGB storage and a real focus on multimedia, to live up to the nseries moniker	20:36
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johnx	lcuk, err, I think it's different. and the omap2 can't drive 800x480 directly anyways, right?	20:36
lcuk	yeah exactly	20:36
lcuk	but its the same principle as the 770 used	20:36
lcuk	external framebuffer	20:36
johnx	ah, yes, just a worse implementation	20:36
lcuk	heh	20:36
RST38h	Jaffa: I hope so...	20:36
johnx	coughd-padcough	20:36
lcuk	the dpad is nice where i use it	20:37
RST38h	johnx: how dare you to tell nokia what to include!	20:37
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Jaffa	johnx: It's got a d-pad the same as an N810, I bet	20:37
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johnx	Jaffa, nah, the trend has been for them to get worse	20:37
* RST38h suspects that we will get a buttonless iphone-like brick =)		20:37
lcuk	heh if it has im betting roope curses it every day :D	20:37
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RST38h	that would be hilarious	20:37
lcuk	RST38h, we have one of those now with 810 :) it just has hidden stuff	20:38
Jaffa	lcuk: he's already said he considers the N810's as just cursor keys	20:38
RST38h	lcuk: no I mean no hidden stuff!	20:38
Jaffa	I also bet it'll have a keyboard - hopefully better than the N810s	20:38
johnx	lcuk, yeah you gotta watch out for that when drinking in certain bars, 'cause ... wait? ah right the n810.	20:38
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lcuk	RST38h, the dream of an ibrick is bad, it was why i didnt get one - fully touch interfaces really excell on large format devices	20:38
lcuk	but i will not give up screen space for a keyboard ever again	20:39
Jaffa	me neither	20:39
RST38h	hehe	20:39
johnx	they also suck for 'no look' use, but that's not as important for a tablet I guess as a dedicated mp3 player or phone	20:39
RST38h	love reading those PDFs? ;)	20:39
lcuk	ok, how do we market and sell a slide on bt keyboard	20:39
RST38h	lcuk: with boobs.	20:40
johnx	lcuk, talk to the guys who made a slide-on d-pad and buttons for the iphone	20:40
Jaffa	Connection on BT keyboards isn't as convenient	20:40
RST38h	lcuk: you can market ANYTHING with boobs	20:40
lcuk	no, the device will have a nipple (like the pre) :D	20:40
RST38h	perfect, perfect...	20:40
lcuk	search google images for "coco de mer"	20:40
johnx	RST38h, http://tinyurl.com/6tg53d	20:41
lcuk	johnx, did you have that stored in favorites? you found it awful quickly	20:42
lcuk	either that, or is it your homepage/	20:42
johnx	lcuk, errr...uhm...no?	20:42
* RST38h knew "coco" was going to mean something obscene		20:42
lcuk	:D i got stretching and scaling of my widgets working last night :$	20:43
lcuk	:O and other stuff id forgotten about	20:43
RST38h	johnx: stop watching that yaoi anime NOW.	20:43
RST38h	=)	20:43
johnx	RST38h, yaoi? what's that?	20:43
qwerty12_N800	RST38h, yeah, I wonder why kellogs coco pops cereal is brown...	20:44
RST38h	johnx: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yaoi	20:44
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RST38h	qwerty: it is cocoa, afaik :)	20:44
qwerty12_N800	I hope so grin	20:44
RST38h	johnx: Make sure you check "demographics" part, it is the most amusing	20:45
johnx	RST38h, heh. was playing dumb, but the funny thing is: I only ever heard about it from US fangirls. never once here.	20:45
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RST38h	johnx: I wouldn't know if I didn't read an article on the history of anime	20:46
johnx	RST38h, though I guess here it hides under the general term Dojin and people (surprise, surprise) aren't really as forthcoming about babbling all about it to strangers as american fan[boys\|girls]	20:47
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* RST38h only seen US anime fans once when his path crossed some anime convention in Baltimore		20:47
zenvoid	in spanish "coco" is a coconut, maybe it is somewhat related to the results in google image search :)	20:48
* b-man has a frend who is obsessed in naruto ond chowder :p		20:48
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johnx	in Japan coco is a chain of restaurants serving curry :)	20:48
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wazd	RST38h: can you receive a file?)	20:50
RST38h	wazd: does not seem to work :( simply email to luarvique@gmail.com	20:50
wazd	RST38h: sent	20:51
RST38h	thanks	20:52
wazd	They have kind of moderation at this contest I think	20:52
wazd	Since my widget still isn't there :)	20:52
RST38h	oh yes, much better	20:53
wazd	RST38h: the problem is in borders thickness, it's not resizing with whole image	20:54
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RST38h	wazd: just bump it up, it is ok	20:57
RST38h	wazd: Can you make the LCD-to-buttons and buttons-to-bottom distances a bit less so that the whole image looks shorter and a bit thicker?	20:57
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RST38h	wazd: It may violate real proportions a little bit but will allow me to make bigger icons :)	20:58
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RST38h	the ones rendered from 88x88 svg are pretty decent btw but the above trick will help making them more detailed	20:58
wazd	RST38h: ok	20:59
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wazd	RST38h: if you're not a crazy gameboy geek you'll not even notice)	21:06
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RST38h	wazd: lots of people notice this stuff as "there is something wrong but can't pinpoint what"	21:08
johnx	RST38h, and those people get WONTFIXed?	21:09
RST38h	Don't think it matters for icons though :)	21:09
RST38h	johnx: No, if you want to stall those, you do it with NEEDINFO	21:09
wazd	RST38h: gone to your e-mail	21:09
RST38h	johnx: But I am sure timeless will know and tell you all about this :)	21:09
RST38h	wazd: got it	21:10
johnx	RST38h, fixed in fremantle :) heh...some of the maemo bugs need "fixed in mer"	21:10
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RST38h	johnx: I already proposed the FUCKOFF resolution	21:10
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qwerty12_N800	andre___, we want a FIXEDINMERMOFO resolution :p	21:11
RST38h	johnx: got a more pressing issue though: damn Modest continues to throw password set dialogs at me	21:11
RST38h	looks like a bug =(	21:11
johnx	RST38h, YOUNEEDTOUSEIMAP	21:11
RST38h	johnx: IDOIDO	21:11
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RST38h	johnx: but one of my accounts is POP3	21:12
johnx	RST38h, you gave in?! huh...in that case I would say check to make sure the password is actually getting stored	21:12
johnx	though, I've actually been seeing similar behavior in spicebird (and formerly in thunderbird) on the desktop	21:13
johnx	also, how regular is it?	21:13
RST38h	johnx: well, gmail uses imap, that is why	21:14
RST38h	johnx: pretty regular, daily, seems to be dependent on wifi connection quality	21:14
johnx	aaaah, odd. here's the weirdest part: on the desktop I get this asked for the password to my gmail imap account ... but it works flawlessly on the tablet no matter what	21:15
johnx	same account	21:15
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johnx	I wonder what the server could be returning to make modest think the password is wrong	21:15
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johnx	maybe complaining about some malformed request and modest just saying "oh, must be the password."	21:16
andre___	qwerty12_N800, you can have a keyword if you want to :)	21:16
RST38h	wazd: thanks, it is perfect!	21:17
RST38h	johnx: the weird part is that once it starts happening ir continues until I reenter the password	21:17
qwerty12_N800	andre___, :)	21:17
RST38h	johnx: although the entered password is correct and I am reentering the same thing	21:17
andre___	qwerty12_N800, well, dunno. if you think it's helpful, just say :)	21:17
johnx	RST38h, can you verify that when it asks you for the password the one it has stored is correct?	21:18
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r2d2rogers	moo	21:19
* b-man starts installing base packages in ubuntu jaunty - i hope that keyboard problem does not come up again... (using better install prosess than before)		21:19
RST38h	johnx: it is asterisked, so unless there is a way to reveal it in gtk...	21:19
qwerty12_N800	andre___, thank you, but I was joking but maybe Stskeeps and/or johnx would like that :)	21:19
Navi	lol	21:19
johnx	RST38h, well it has to be stored somewhere on your tablet ...	21:19
b-man	r2d2rogers: apt-get moo :)	21:20
johnx	I vote for a WILLBEFIXEDBYQWERTY12SOBUGHIM	21:20
b-man	lol	21:20
r2d2rogers	what's news? <G>	21:20
TrueJournals	johnx: I believe modest passwords are stored in gconf...	21:20
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andre__	grmpf. reconnects...	21:21
andre__	qwerty12_N800, well, dunno. if you think a keyword might be helpful, just say :)	21:21
TrueJournals	johnx: Yes, they're in /apps/modest/server_accounts/(account name)	21:21
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johnx	RST38h, there's your answer. check there after it complains	21:22
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johnx	thanks TrueJournals :)	21:22
TrueJournals	No problem	21:22
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RST38h	TrueJournals,johnx: thanks!	21:23
RST38h	packaging VGB with the new icons	21:24
qwerty12_N800	johnx, i don't like that resolution :p	21:24
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johnx	qwerty12_N800, that's because you're not a team player :D	21:25
johnx	and isn't it still your turn to be the channe's bot? :P	21:25
*** qwerty12_N800 is now known as qwertybot		21:25
johnx	~fix-bugs	21:26
qwertybot	being in a team forces me to meet deadlines :D	21:26
qwertybot	johnx, I do not understand "fix-bugs".	21:26
johnx	ah, well. was worth a try	21:27
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qwertybot	:p	21:27
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Stskeeps	andre__: re own keyword, maybe when we're more structured :)	21:30
andre__	ok	21:31
andre__	mp	21:31
* qwertybot wishes http://outpo.st/irc/ was updated and hopes he gets the swearing prize		21:31
johnx	heh...I just like that qwerty12 and qwerty12_N800 are on the list of most active users O_o	21:33
TrueJournals	"Nobody beat anyone up. Everybody was friendly."	21:34
TrueJournals	We should fix that...	21:34
* TrueJournals punches TrueJournals		21:34
* qwertybot beats up TrueJournals		21:34
johnx	~fishslap TrueJournals	21:34
qwertybot	Happy now?	21:34
* TrueJournals unplugs qwertybot		21:34
* RST38h finds it mildly reassuring that there is a miniature ssh server hidden somewhere in the flat, available 24 hours a day		21:34
lcuk	"\@/ gah why is there no poweroff for this device"	21:34
qwertybot	Nooo, I've left the matrix!	21:35
b-man	loll	21:35
RST38h	Secret undeground lair of sorts	21:35
qwertybot	I hate you Cypher/TrueJournals :p	21:35
*** qwertybot is now known as qwerty12_N800		21:35
TrueJournals	MUHAHA	21:35
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lcuk	hiya tj	21:36
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qwerty12_N800	Someone should bribe mgedmin for the logs from povbot :)	21:36
lcuk	theres other logs :)	21:37
lcuk	ive got 55mb since 15jan	21:37
lcuk	08	21:37
qwerty12_N800	mgedmin's ones are the best :P	21:37
lcuk	of course they are	21:37
lcuk	mgedmin has a hot bot	21:37
johnx	Stskeeps, you're right. icons are a mystery	21:38
johnx	time to break out strace	21:38
qwerty12_N800	povbot, I'll give you vodka for the logs.	21:38
povbot	qwerty12_N800: Error: "I'll" is not a valid command.	21:38
qwerty12_N800	Fuck you	21:38
Stskeeps	povbot, 1+2?	21:38
povbot	Stskeeps: Error: "1+2?" is not a valid command.	21:38
Stskeeps	povbot, 1+2	21:38
povbot	Stskeeps: Error: "1+2" is not a valid command.	21:38
Stskeeps	pft.	21:38
Stskeeps	.P	21:38
Stskeeps	johnx: ltrace maybe too and dbg packages	21:38
TrueJournals	povbot, help	21:38
povbot	TrueJournals: (help [<plugin>] [<command>]) -- This command gives a useful description of what <command> does. <plugin> is only necessary if the command is in more than one plugin.	21:38
wazd	RST38h: what's better, to draw high detailed gameboy or to start to draw other consoles?	21:38
TrueJournals	Hmm... that really didn't help :-\	21:39
johnx	Stskeeps, I was just going to watch for files not being found	21:39
Stskeeps	johnx: ah, true	21:39
RST38h	wazd: I think it is better to start with other consoles	21:41
RST38h	wazd: even at 88x88 pixels, it is difficult to see details	21:41
wazd	RST38h: ok	21:42
RST38h	wazd: there is a couple of things that can improve situation (using more contrast shades of gray, framing the whole GB in a 1-pixel frame of contrast color, etc) but they are all minor	21:42
lcuk	RST38h, http://image.versiontracker.com/client_icons/676E7562-4150504C-icon-32x32-8bit.gif this is 32*32 and seems to have details	21:43
lcuk	why are you having trouble with yours cos isnt it bigger	21:43
RST38h	lcuk: ! it is actually a cool idea =)	21:43
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RST38h	wazd: we can rotate it ~45o clockwise and fill the whole rectangle! =)	21:44
RST38h	it will probably look bad at 26x26 resolution though	21:44
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wazd	RST38h: well, I think it's pretty recognizable now)	21:51
wazd	RST38h: don't know how it looks on symbian screen, but on my laptop it's looking good :)	21:51
RST38h	wazd: it is recognizable all right, just thinking that more details will not show up at these resolutions	21:52
Pavlov	i/win 58	21:52
Pavlov	bah	21:52
* RST38h did not try symbian yet, but there is a .deb for interested people		21:52
RST38h	maemo deb that is	21:52
Stskeeps	johnx: saw zenvoid posted his theme earlier btw?	21:53
johnx	ah! he released it?	21:53
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Stskeeps	johnx: http://zenvoid.org/tmp/	21:54
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Stskeeps	zenvoid: btw you have a .dsc but not tar.gz for the theme :)	21:54
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wazd	RST38h: now it's time for GBA I guess?	21:55
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johnx	hmmm...with a solid title bar I wonder if I can get away with fewer changes to make it work at 640x480	21:55
johnx	BTW, maemopad plays nice on the zaurus for the most part :D	21:55
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Stskeeps	johnx: maemopad is unthemed at my mer	21:56
Stskeeps	i dunno why	21:56
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RST38h	wazd: yea, it would be a logical next step	21:56
wazd	RST38h: what's better, clamshell or brick?)	21:56
johnx	Stskeeps, what happens if you launch from roxterm?	21:56
Stskeeps	johnx: well since HIM doesn't work for me in roxterm..	21:57
johnx	no usb keyboard?	21:57
RST38h	wazd: the original brick of course! clamshell is for wussies	21:57
Stskeeps	johnx: nop	21:57
Stskeeps	(i know, im an atypical maemo hacker..)	21:57
Stskeeps	i dont even think i own a usb keyboard anymore	21:57
wazd	RST38h: thought so too :)	21:57
RST38h	wazd: I do think rotating it 30-45o will help pushing in more detail	21:58
Shadow_M	does anyone else get double key entry when using vnc on the n810	21:58
wazd	RST38h: at smaller resolutions that angle will ruin whole image)	21:58
wazd	RST38h: it will look like a puddle of pixels)	21:59
RST38h	it will =(	21:59
b-man	hi Shadow_M	21:59
RST38h	unless you make it exactly 45o of course	21:59
johnx	Stskeeps, I'll try in a sec. launched from roxterm on the zaurus it's themed, but has a couple glitches. might be resolution or might be sapwood :/	21:59
Shadow_M	hello b-man	21:59
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wazd	RST38h: well, since it's vector then we can play with angles all day long :)	22:02
Shadow_M	b-man, have you had expperience with samba	22:02
b-man	no, unfortunately :(	22:03
RST38h	wazd: naah, of course it is a vector, but once it is rendered to a bitmap, only 3 angles make sense - 0o, 45o, and 90o	22:04
RST38h	The rest will look like shit (you are right)	22:04
johnx	if I'm understanding this sapwood is what's actually going out the FS and loading icons, right?	22:04
* b-man is allmost 2/3 done with re-installing ubuntu jaunty on his N800		22:05
b-man	fast, compared to last time :)	22:06
* Stskeeps makes another cup of coffee		22:06
johnx	ah yes, I have coffee right next tom me...	22:07
* b-man makes some tea		22:07
johnx	hmm, it has been awfully long time since I slept but I do have today off...soooo	22:07
b-man	i naturaly can't stay up past 2:00 am or i fall asleep :p	22:08
b-man	(and coffie makes me sleepy)	22:09
johnx	ahaha...my first cup of coffee used to make me sleepy, then my second cup woke me up	22:09
johnx	but I fixed that: got a bigger cup	22:10
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Shadow_M	anyone read the article that says more than 3 cups of coffe a day makes you paranoid and dalusional	22:10
Shadow_M	dilusional	22:10
RST38h	johnx: it is past 3am where you are [state-of-factly]	22:10
johnx	RST38h, 5AM	22:10
RST38h	holyshit	22:10
Stskeeps	Shadow_M: which explains a lot of people on iTT and on the internet	22:10
RST38h	why?	22:10
b-man	0_o	22:10
Stskeeps	RST38h: Mer is so much fun.	22:10
johnx	I work nights :)	22:10
Stskeeps	aw, more sane reason	22:10
johnx	I'm on London time :)	22:10
RST38h	johnx: around this time, I start seeing wireframes everywhere	22:10
b-man	johnx, get some sleep!!	22:11
johnx	RST38h, those aren't real? ah...fuck	22:11
RST38h	johnx: Who knows? =)	22:11
qwerty12_N800	johnx, brapp, london (time) is da shit :p	22:11
johnx	b-man, eh. I'll have plenty of time to sleep when I'm dead	22:11
b-man	lol x10000	22:11
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johnx	I'll stay up long enough to see my wife off to work :)	22:11
b-man	XD	22:12
b-man	hehe	22:12
* RST38h remembers he has to work too		22:12
* b-man doesn't work		22:12
Stskeeps	i was at work today even though i wasn't legally able to, hmm :P	22:13
b-man	(in highschool)	22:13
Stskeeps	b-man: get a paperroute	22:13
Stskeeps	:P	22:13
johnx	grrrr....maemopad, tell me which icon has 0 size	22:13
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TrueJournals	Hooray highschool!	22:13
TrueJournals	No school today here due to FREEZING COLD	22:13
totix800	Hey, does anybody know a way to control N810s LEDs?	22:13
qwerty12_N800	TrueJournals, Damn! that's you and b-man now :(	22:14
b-man	Truejournals: same reason here!!!!!	22:14
b-man	do you live in ohio? :)	22:14
qwerty12_N800	!insult London for not having seriously shit weather	22:14
RST38h	totix: yes.	22:14
Stskeeps	totix800: there's probably an example of it in powerlaunch	22:14
Shadow_M	ok i think i am havint an issue with wizard mount on my windows machine the file permissions are fine but on her in emelfm2 i cant open a dir because it says no permission	22:14
RST38h	totix: there is documentation	22:14
TrueJournals	b-man: No, I live in a suburb of Chicago	22:14
b-man	ah 245 miles from ware i live	22:14
qwerty12_N800	totix800, there's dbus signals that you can send to mce - search itt	22:15
RST38h	What is "freezing cold" in Chicago?	22:15
TrueJournals	RST38h: -2 degrees outside, windchill to -25 (F, of course)	22:15
b-man	-12 for a low for us	22:15
johnx	TrueJournals, I do not envy you	22:15
TrueJournals	Er, It's -6 currently actually	22:15
b-man	0_o	22:16
totix800	thx to all, now I got some things to look after	22:16
TrueJournals	Yeah, it's pretty cold	22:16
qwerty12_N800	totix800, or if you just wanna mess around: http://sse2.net/ledcolor.py	22:16
Shadow_M	anyone use wizard mounter here	22:16
Stskeeps	qwerty12_N800: hah, i thought led_control.py	22:16
Stskeeps	no wonder i couldn't find it	22:16
qwerty12_N800	:p	22:17
qwerty12_N800	i'm more annoyed about s/colour/color/ ;p	22:17
TrueJournals	Pfft... you crazy british people	22:18
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b-man	lol	22:18
Shadow_M	no one uses wizard mounter?	22:18
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TrueJournals	Not I :-\	22:18
johnx	qwerty12_N800, why don't you just speak proper English?	22:18
* johnx ducks		22:19
qwerty12_N800	johnx, I do already, by speaking British English :P	22:19
Shadow_M	TrueJournals, how do you mount samba shares	22:19
TrueJournals	I don't :-P	22:19
johnx	qwerty12_N800, i dunno. US English is more popular...	22:19
Shadow_M	hmm	22:19
qwerty12_N800	johnx, lies!	22:19
johnx	qwerty12_N800, but for a real kick, try Japanese English :D	22:19
qwerty12_N800	Hehe, sounds scary :D	22:19
Shadow_M	no one here uses samba shares come on people	22:20
johnx	Shadow_M, I use them through the file manager sometimes, but not recently	22:20
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TrueJournals	Shadow_M: Why, are you having trouble with it?	22:20
* qwerty12_N800 's grammar is dodgy though...		22:20
RST38h	johnx: it is really "rear kick"	22:20
Shadow_M	yeah the permissions are comming out write but when accessed on a windows client they are	22:21
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johnx	RST38h, just pronounce ri and li at the same time and you'll get the idea	22:21
Shadow_M	like the samba user i put in for wizard mounter has full rights but wizard mounter isnt giving them	22:21
RST38h	johnx: I can't even pronounce "the" properly and you ask for such advanced crap!	22:22
johnx	RST38h, heh...I can't get it right either :D	22:22
TrueJournals	Shadow_M: Have you tried using the share with the same user on a different computer?	22:22
Shadow_M	yup seems to work fine TrueJournals	22:23
TrueJournals	Hmmmm.. that does seem strage.. I'm installing wizard-mounter right now to see if I get the same	22:23
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Shadow_M	alright whats esp weird is that in emelfm2 a dir says no permission but the share mounted on a pc can enter the folder and modify it	22:26
Stskeeps	johnx: i was scared when my other computers appeared in mer file chooser :)	22:26
johnx	Shadow_M, ok, check the actualy permissions of the dir before you mount the share	22:26
johnx	Stskeeps, ah, guess we have some libsmb stuff, huh?	22:27
Stskeeps	johnx: yup	22:27
johnx	note: we're missing a whole bunch of parts of the "transparent cursor" theme, so transparent cursors aren't visible	22:27
Stskeeps	yeah..	22:27
Stskeeps	also we arent really supposed to remove cursor in start-hildon actually	22:28
johnx	aaah, I didn't even notice	22:28
Stskeeps	btw, meiz claimed we get movable windows but OK positioned, if we simply remove the use_dialog_mode free line	22:28
Stskeeps	else i have a patch from Matan for it	22:28
johnx	good deal	22:29
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: did i go too far? http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=257883#post257883	22:29
lcuk	is there a way to have best of both - if the xevents come via mouse to display and update a cursor, otherwise hide it and use it normally	22:29
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johnx	I wonder what Nokia is holding back in terms of matchbox patches	22:29
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: yes, remove imager and installer link	22:29
Meiz_n810	ok	22:29
Stskeeps	(if it's ok)	22:30
Shadow_M	johnx, i did that	22:30
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: if anyone wants to participate they should show up here :P	22:30
Meiz_n810	okay :)	22:30
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: what the heck is the power cable icon btw?	22:30
johnx	Meiz_n810, but as for the screenshots, they look great :)	22:30
Meiz_n810	johnx: thanks	22:31
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: gnome-power-manager	22:31
Stskeeps	ah	22:31
Stskeeps	does it get the battery right?	22:31
Meiz_n810	not really working	22:31
Stskeeps	k	22:31
johnx	ah, yeah	22:31
johnx	probably tied to ACPI to a certain extent	22:32
TrueJournals	Shadow_M: OK, I mounted a share, and was able to create a file in the share, but now I can't read or edit it. Is that what you're observing?	22:32
qwerty12_N800	Meiz_n810, false advertising! :P	22:32
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: and edit to note that you are using icons from maemo	22:32
Meiz_n810	ok	22:32
* Jaffa boggles at the level of unknowledge about the RX-51 on maemo-developers		22:32
Stskeeps	just so people don't get false expectations :)	22:32
Stskeeps	Jaffa: people were probably too drunk at summit	22:32
johnx	Jaffa, among Nokian's or outsiders?	22:33
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Shadow_M	TrueJournals yeah basically	22:33
Jaffa	johnx: non-Nokians	22:34
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: done :)	22:34
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: ta	22:34
zenvoid	Stskeeps: oops, sorry I was away, installing linux in the ps3 (well... playing gta4 in fact, but "installing linux" sounds much better excuse ;-) )	22:34
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: besides that, looks great :)	22:34
TrueJournals	Shadow_M: Well, at the very least, we're observing the same thing...	22:34
Stskeeps	zenvoid: "compiling"	22:34
johnx	Jaffa, I guess keeping up with things is just too tough for some people ...	22:34
zenvoid	Stskeeps: you are right, I forgot to upload the tar.gz	22:35
Shadow_M	yeah but how do you fix that lol TrueJournals	22:35
Stskeeps	zenvoid: hehe :)	22:35
lcuk	johnx, not everyone does	22:35
Stskeeps	johnx: mer tshirt.. logo, plus the motto "We should stop seeing the tablets as strictly under-powered embedded systems, and see them for what they really are: powerful, power-efficient, economical handheld computers." ;)	22:35
lcuk	ok, its not -users its -dev	22:35
Shadow_M	it kinda seems like it doesnt like to use the users real permissions TrueJournals	22:35
lcuk	rolleyes	22:35
johnx	Stskeeps, who is that from again?	22:35
Jaffa	You'd've thought the people who actually post to -dev would know about what was announced at the summit	22:36
Stskeeps	johnx: i'm not sure if it was either my original statement, then edited by rst38h, or by GA, or in which order..	22:36
Meiz_n810	hmm, omegamoon seems to have fennec on his zaurus... http://www.omegamoon.com/blog/	22:36
Stskeeps	i should google my logs	22:36
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: who'd want fennec? :P	22:36
TrueJournals	Shadow_M: Excellent question...	22:36
Meiz_n810	:)	22:36
Stskeeps	(apologies to any fennec developers in the room)	22:36
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: it might become a good browser for mobile devices	22:37
johnx	Meiz_n810, gah, that has to take forever to load O_o	22:37
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Meiz_n810	k	22:37
TrueJournals	Shadow_M: I think wizard-mounter needs to be modified to pass uid and gid to mount as options, so that files get created for the correct user	22:37
Shadow_M	hmm	22:37
johnx	even midori in matchbox takes a while to load on the zaurus	22:37
TrueJournals	Anyone have a dev environment up and running to compile if I modify wizard-mounter? :P	22:38
Jaffa	Meiz_n810: The theme-including mer screenshots on ITT look fab	22:38
Meiz_n810	thanks :)	22:38
lcuk	jaffa its really starting to resemble a desktop :)	22:40
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: you should be able to use the load applet screenshot feature now btw	22:40
Meiz_n810	yep	22:40
Stskeeps	it'll put itself in /home/whatever/MyDocs/.images	22:40
Stskeeps	wtf, didn't know evernote did IMAP access to notes	22:41
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Stskeeps	that's innovative	22:41
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RST38h	netbook porn: http://i.gizmodo.com/5131637/sony-vaio-p-review	22:42
Stskeeps	something like that combined with xournal could be a killer app	22:42
Jaffa	RST38h: assuming one wanted a netbook ;-)	22:42
Jaffa	And had oodles of cash	22:42
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johnx	RST38h, I should head down to the store today and get my paws on one for a bit. :)	22:43
RST38h	Jaffa: the review makes it pretty clear you DO NOT want a netbook	22:43
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RST38h	Jaffa: from the sound of it, the video performance is actually worse than in the current N810	22:44
RST38h	johnx: I am not even sure how to classify this particular perversion =)	22:44
qwerty12_N800	RST38h, how the hell did they manage that?	22:44
RST38h	qwerty: Vista.	22:45
johnx	RST38h, a cheap laptop that forgot to be cheap?	22:45
lcuk	:) hearing about poor video performance makes at least one person smile :)	22:45
RST38h	qwerty: And of course more pixels	22:45
johnx	the big thing that would help ARM machines running Linux is some more freaking RAM	22:45
qwerty12_N800	RST38h, point taken re vista. :)	22:45
Stskeeps	Omegamoon: do you have an interest in the Maemo platform on Zaurus as well, btw?	22:45
RST38h	johnx: It's a Sony. It's shiny.	22:45
RST38h	johnx: Nothing else to add.	22:45
RST38h	johnx: Well, fast RAM would help	22:46
johnx	RST38h, vaio p, can't playback 720p. pandora, can playback 720p. case closed	22:46
johnx	s/pandora/omap3 of choice/ of course	22:46
RST38h	johnx: Pandora can only playback 720p when you can buy it, at least by mail order	22:46
lcuk	but is the sony available to buy?	22:46
RST38h	So, let us not compare physical things with vaporware	22:46
RST38h	lcuk: it is	22:46
lcuk	good	22:47
lcuk	right, im off, bbl	22:47
johnx	"able to buy" and "shipping now" are two different things	22:47
RST38h	johnx: Besides, I somehow suspect that if you put Ubuntu on this Sony toy and get a decent hw optimized version of mplayer, it will do relatively well	22:47
Omegamoon	Stskeeps: Maemo on zaurus... may be interesting	22:48
RST38h	johnx: not on 720p of course, but it will do 480p	22:48
Shadow_M	i want to watch 480p on my n810 lol	22:49
Shadow_M	streaming too	22:49
Stskeeps	Omegamoon: johnx has been working on a zaurus port (and associated theme for the smaller resolution) of Mer (basically ubuntu jaunty minimal base changed into being a base for the Maemo platform (hildon, maemo gtk, etc))	22:50
ssvb	Shadow_M: for 480p, ffmpeg needs just a bit better armv6 support	22:50
Stskeeps	johnx: what was screenshot urls from earlier?	22:50
johnx	http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/JohnX/mer-maemopad.jpg	22:50
johnx	also: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/JohnX/mer-vga.jpg	22:50
johnx	hi Omegamoon :)	22:50
ssvb	Shadow_M: and for streaming, whan driver also spoils the fun a bit	22:50
Shadow_M	hmm	22:50
Omegamoon	johnx: hi there	22:51
Stskeeps	Omegamoon: http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2009/01/12/repos-a-la-mer/ <- quick intro and such	22:51
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Shadow_M	TrueJournals, is there a way to mount samba share without wizard mount smbmount?	22:52
* Omegamoon is scanning pictures		22:53
TrueJournals	Shadow_M: Yes, just use xterm... let me get a command to run...	22:53
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TrueJournals	Shadow_M: Try sudo /bin/mount -t cifs "//(IP_ADDRESS)/(SHARE_NAME)" "/home/user/MyDocs/(DIRECTORY TO MOUNT TO)" -o username="(USERNAME_HERE)",password="(PASSWORD_HERE)",uid=29999,gid=29999	22:55
TrueJournals	Replacing, of course, the things in parenthasees	22:55
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Shadow_M	do i need uid and gid info	22:55
TrueJournals	Yes	22:55
TrueJournals	That's the reason wizard-mounter doesn't work... it doesn't include those	22:56
TrueJournals	So, the shares get mounted as root	22:56
TrueJournals	Instead of user	22:56
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Shadow_M	ah ok that makes sense	22:56
Stskeeps	hm, US airways plane down in NY	23:02
johnx	O_o	23:02
Stskeeps	(cnn)	23:02
johnx	is it just me or has there been more airplane crashes/mishaps lately?	23:02
Stskeeps	johnx: actually they just reported two days ago there hadn't been a commercial aircraft crash in US for two years	23:03
Stskeeps	which obviously tempted fate	23:03
johnx	where did that plane run off the runway?	23:03
johnx	was that UK?	23:03
Stskeeps	canada?	23:04
Stskeeps	can't recall	23:04
johnx	anyways, looks like this turned out ok for the most part...no one dead, right?	23:04
Stskeeps	at least not confirmed, and that passengers were standing on top of the plane :P	23:04
johnx	heh...wasn't there something about a commercial plane never having gone down in water?	23:04
Stskeeps	as in succesfully?	23:05
johnx	gone down and successfully usually aren't in the same sentence as plane	23:05
Stskeeps	as in capable of landing on water	23:05
Stskeeps	and getting everyone out	23:06
johnx	maybe it was some qualifier like "open water"	23:06
Stskeeps	yeah	23:06
johnx	well, I'm glad my uncle was flying into New York, not out :)	23:08
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Stskeeps	yeah.. reading about it i went through my internal list of people being abroad	23:09
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Gareth	Greetings, Any Maemo user, developers, enthusiasts in the Southern California area who might be interested in representing the project at an upcoming free & open source conference in February?	23:09
Stskeeps	johnx: http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2009-01-15-plane-crash-hudson_N.htm	23:10
Stskeeps	that's kinda an amazing and incredible photo	23:10
zenvoid	I'm curious about how do you handle multiple screen resolutions in themes... I mean, themes for maemo are fixed for 800x480	23:10
johnx	zenvoid, yes, officially. I changed the layout of panels (removed the left one) in ~/.osso/hildon-desktop/desktop.conf	23:11
johnx	...then I modified /usr/share/themes/<theme-name>/matchbox/theme.xml	23:11
johnx	after that it's functional, but I really need to get back and slip some graphics and possibly work out equations for placement instead of guess+check	23:12
zenvoid	johnx: ahh, ok, so there will be a different .deb for each screen resolution, I guess	23:13
johnx	yeah, I think that's the best way to do it	23:14
johnx	I had a brief thought about some script to automatically clip things in postinst...but uhm, that sounds like a lot more work	23:14
zenvoid	johnx: ufff... I prefer multiple debs :)	23:14
johnx	yeah me too	23:15
zenvoid	johnx: is there a different hildon-layout-theme?	23:16
zenvoid	for each res, I mean	23:16
johnx	not yet :)	23:16
zenvoid	ok	23:16
johnx	just yesterday I had my first luck getting it mostly layed out while I was on the train	23:16
Stskeeps	johnx: http://flightaware.com/live/flight/AWE1549/history/20090115/2026Z/KLGA/KLGA/tracklog <- now that's web 2.0 ..	23:16
johnx	Stskeeps, ... just wow	23:17
Stskeeps	johnx: yes, and kinda scary	23:18
johnx	heh...it'll be awesome the next time I fly. I'll probably have inflight wifi by that point	23:18
Stskeeps	johnx: and for the most inappropiate web 2.0 ever..	23:19
Stskeeps	http://flightaware.com/live/flight/USA1549	23:19
Stskeeps	look at Status	23:19
zenvoid	I see this: Bad news! FlightAware is temporarily unavailable	23:19
zenvoid	"This is often due to extremely heavy traffic volume or an unexpected service interruption."	23:19
johnx	try it again	23:19
johnx	Stskeeps, yeah, "destination" is probably not exactly the right choice of words	23:20
johnx	zenvoid, though I could believe they're under a certain amount of load :)	23:20
Stskeeps	johnx: http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&q=40.750000,+-74.020000 <- very bloody good landing in terms of surviving..	23:22
Stskeeps	right. i should get back to my paper :P	23:23
johnx	bah, he only came in at 153 knots. I could land a car in the Hudson at higher speed :P	23:23
johnx	though yeah. I'm surprised to see wings on that plane	23:23
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Stskeeps	flock of geese in two engines..	23:29
Stskeeps	and so it starts	23:29
johnx	youtube has better coverage than cnn.com	23:29
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zenvoid	johnx, when there is no left panel (and hence no taskbar), what is the plan to change between apps?	23:31
zenvoid	yes, I know... being more interested in technical details in maemo themes than a plane crash is not much sensible, I think	23:32
Stskeeps	zenvoid: wazd did some interesting prototypes yesterday.. sec	23:32
johnx	well, you saw wazd's mockup. I'm leaning towards that if it can be done with off-the-shelf stuff	23:32
johnx	ah, right, he didn't post it to his site	23:32
Stskeeps	http://s45.radikal.ru/i109/0901/9d/c13ce1d0ee25.png	23:33
zenvoid	thanks! that is pretty interesting	23:34
zenvoid	and looks very good	23:34
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johnx	and the idea is that the 'mer' logo would launch the application's menu	23:34
Stskeeps	yeah, but probably be more interesting to implement	23:34
zenvoid	johnx, that was the question I was writing :)	23:35
wazd	RST38h: around?)	23:35
zenvoid	just before you answered :)	23:35
johnx	just my psychic powers :)	23:36
johnx	also, I asked the same question last night I think :D	23:36
zenvoid	:D	23:36
johnx	then launching apps would be done through icons on the desktop	23:36
johnx	maemo-desktop could even be re-used	23:36
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johnx	as for getting the running tasks to line up like that... I need to test if I can do that actually	23:37
zenvoid	very nice, I like it	23:37
johnx	Stskeeps, BTW, I'm not seeing anything suspicious in the strace for sapwood or maemopad when it fails to load those icons...I think they might not be included in the icon theme's index (???)	23:38
RST38h	wazd: yep	23:38
johnx	when I'm more awake I should be able to get a better idea with lsof by comparing a running maemo system and a running mer system	23:38
Stskeeps	johnx: yeah.. that's possible too, gtk-update-icon-cache didnt seem to change anything like that	23:39
johnx	...but it should fall back on something I think	23:39
johnx	bah	23:39
Stskeeps	yeah, i'm baffled too :)	23:40
johnx	anyways, lsof when I wake up again. for now I want to see if task-navigator can run in the top panel	23:41
wazd	RST38h: I've sent you GBA icon to the mail :)	23:41
johnx	s/task-navigator/app-switcher/	23:42
johnx	infobot, I miss you :/	23:42
wazd	who killed infobot?	23:42
qwerty12_N800	povbot	23:43
johnx	I think I saw a futurama episode like this...	23:43
inz	I hate those stupid ass bots that interpret regexps	23:43
zenvoid	hmmm... have you seen the "ubuntu mobile" theme? https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+spec/hildon-desktop-for-ubuntu	23:44
zenvoid	it does have only the top panel	23:44
johnx	zenvoid, I played with it but for some reason it didn't play nice with our version of sapwood I think ... or something	23:44
zenvoid	at least in the screenshots :)	23:44
zenvoid	johnx: ah, ok	23:44
johnx	one more thing I should try again :)	23:45
Stskeeps	inz: btw - do you know of anyone applying the maemo changes of libvte to later versions?	23:45
Stskeeps	johnx: also there's some patches in h-d in moblin	23:45
Stskeeps	some hints	23:45
inz	Stskeeps, no idea, I douby	23:46
inz	Stskeeps, the current version is the lates that supports gtk+ in maemo	23:46
johnx	zenvoid, I just played with it a bit. It can probably be made to work with more time and/or effort	23:46
Stskeeps	inz: k	23:46
johnx	Stskeeps, patches to let them add an app-switcher to the top bar?	23:47
Stskeeps	johnx: for instance	23:47
Stskeeps	look at the launchpad tree for h-d	23:47
Stskeeps	there's a patch for it i think	23:47
inz	Stskeeps, if the version now in maemo didn't fix nasty gconf bug, maemo would probably still use very ancient vte	23:47
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johnx	I guess the question is how many patches from different places do we want to carry ...	23:49
Stskeeps	wtf @ samba support being dropped in fremantle	23:49
zenvoid	johnx: actually, I like your mockup much more :-)	23:49
johnx	zenvoid, hmm? you mean my screenshot?	23:49
johnx	it's wazd's mockup to be fair :)	23:49
zenvoid	john: ah, well... then I like wazd's mockup much more :D	23:50
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amr	ohforchristsake	23:53
amr	wsod on my 770	23:53
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Stskeeps	happens	23:54
Stskeeps	:P	23:54
amr	hmm	23:54
amr	this is the second time now	23:55
amr	:/	23:55
Stslaptop	on same 770? :P	23:55
amr	no :p	23:55
amr	replacement	23:55
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amr	i hope this gets replaced still	23:55
Shadow_M	TrueJournals, emelfm2 still gives me the same problem	23:56
Shadow_M	the built in filemanager says unable to open but then shows me the files greyed out	23:57
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Stskeeps	lcuk: http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26248	23:58
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Shadow_M	TrueJournals, in terminal under root i can see the files though	23:59
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qwerty12_N800	Man, is that fugly or what...	23:59
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