| * qwerty12_N800 needs keeps reminding himself to gtfo maemo-users | 00:00 | |
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| * Stskeeps notes cutting internet connection when X dies is not cool. | 00:05 | |
| Grackle | Is that what happens with networkmangler? | 00:06 |
|---|---|---|
| Stskeeps | i don't like NM but we dont have ICD, so | 00:06 |
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| johnx | you can set it to be system wide, then it does some daemon-y thing | 00:07 |
| johnx | and ICD would be awesome...if it wasn't closed source. yay Nokia! | 00:07 |
| * qwerty12_N800 wishes that they would. at least, open icd1. in some respects, it performed better than icd2. | 00:08 | |
| woglinde | *g* I think ICD2 is souch a bad codebase they dont want to show it | 00:09 |
| johnx | lulz...I'll write my own based on zenity and wirelesstools | 00:10 |
| johnx | disturbingly I can picture how it would work O_o | 00:10 |
| qwerty12_N800 | yeah, better than nm :) | 00:11 |
| johnx | maybe a python statusbar applet to control it... | 00:13 |
| johnx | needs like 6 .png icons and a dropdown menu | 00:13 |
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| lcuk | gahhhh i could really do with kot | 00:16 |
| woglinde | ifup/down with guessnet and wpa_supplicant rockz | 00:16 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | ~summon KotCzarny for lcuk | 00:18 |
| infobot | apt takes out 20 clean, identical-looking phones, some extra hands, and pretends to be a telemarketer for a large corporation, so he gets delivered a phonelist containing KotCzarny for lcuk's coordinates | 00:18 |
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| lcuk | :) if only. hes the only person so far thats had his head deep enough into the code that we can discuss technicalities and get a decent response :) | 00:21 |
| qwerty12_N800 | isn't he still around on freenode? | 00:22 |
| lcuk | do nokia have helicopter gunships and extraction teams? | 00:22 |
| woglinde | lol | 00:22 |
| lcuk | qwerty, he went home to poland, there was a lady involved i think :) | 00:22 |
| qwerty12_N800 | :) | 00:23 |
| johnx | lcuk, left freenode for poland? | 00:23 |
| lcuk | lol | 00:23 |
| johnx | does poland have fewer netsplits? | 00:23 |
| qwerty12_N800 | poland has vodka :p | 00:23 |
| * johnx settles for good kirin beer and freenode/#maemo :) | 00:24 | |
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| unixSnob | are there multiple passwords to sipphone accounts? | 00:28 |
| unixSnob | my web password isn't working on my ATA | 00:28 |
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| roope | Good morning. | 00:33 |
| roope | ... or some other time of day. | 00:34 |
| jpt9 | Evening. | 00:34 |
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| wazd | night) | 00:35 |
| Jaffa | wazd: sorry, I'm with RST38h - I think Titan looks a bit too Windows 3.1ish, and doesn't fit with the coolness of the mer logo/background/loading screen | 00:35 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: was my choice to take in titan :) | 00:36 |
| Stskeeps | as it was first and best theme that actually worked fully | 00:36 |
| Stskeeps | but yes, there might be a replacement | 00:36 |
| Jaffa | Plankton's open source, isn't it? Or does it not work in the fremantle hildon-desktop? | 00:36 |
| unixSnob | anyone have a gizmo account? | 00:36 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: plankton is plankton.. | 00:36 |
| Stskeeps | but yes, it's open source and all, but definately fitting worse into the artwork than titan ;) | 00:37 |
| Jaffa | Personally, I think http://www.flickr.com/photos/tigert/374514916/ looks better than Titan; but dunno how well it'll work with your compositing stuff. | 00:38 |
| Jaffa | Making any headway on the i18n issue, btw? | 00:38 |
| Stskeeps | sitting and looking on it | 00:38 |
| Jaffa | cool | 00:39 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: the problem is really - some locales work | 00:39 |
| Stskeeps | and majority doesn't | 00:39 |
| unixSnob | any way to show the password in the voip accounts? | 00:40 |
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| timeless | ping | 00:41 |
| timeless | is there a page that talks about F<x> key mapping in maemo? | 00:41 |
| Jaffa | timeless: i.e. full screen = F6, home = F5 etc? | 00:42 |
| timeless | yes | 00:42 |
| wazd | Jaffa: I was thinking to make Mer theme | 00:42 |
| Jaffa | wazd: cool | 00:42 |
| Jaffa | timeless: I'm sure it's in one of the official docs under maemo.org | 00:42 |
| wazd | Jaffa: Titan is temporary I suppose | 00:42 |
| timeless | http://maemo.org/community/oldwiki/howto-setupkeyboard/ | 00:42 |
| timeless | is something that comes up | 00:42 |
| timeless | but calling that 'official' is um... | 00:42 |
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| timeless | http://maemo.org/maemo_release_documentation/maemo4.1.x/Maemo_Diablo_Reference_Manual_for_maemo_4.1.pdf | 00:43 |
| timeless | a pdf is not what i'd call useful documentation | 00:43 |
| wazd | Jaffa: Never knew that Titan looks like win 3.1... Everybody says (and it was concerned to be) pretty modern sleek theme | 00:43 |
| lcuk | its perfect | 00:44 |
| Jaffa | timeless: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/maemo_bora_3-x_tutorial/#user_content_Hardware-keys | 00:44 |
| timeless | bora? | 00:44 |
| timeless | .... | 00:44 |
| Jaffa | timeless: I know. Finding official Maemo documentation is a nightmare since someone had the "bright" idea of making them all PDFs with no HTML equivalent. | 00:44 |
| timeless | *user content* ? | 00:45 |
| Jaffa | wazd: Just my IMHO. I know some people like it, and that's absolutely fine. Just not my cup of tea, I'm afraid. | 00:45 |
| lcuk | themes are user customizable for a reason, you will never ever have a one size fits all | 00:46 |
| Jaffa | timeless: http://maemomm.garage.maemo.org/docs/tutorial/html/ch02s03.html is a handy chart | 00:46 |
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| Jaffa | lcuk: absolutely | 00:46 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: btw wazd is a bit touchy about any of his stuff being compared with windows ;) | 00:46 |
| Stskeeps | (today) | 00:46 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: OK, how about it's very OS/2 Warpey? ;-) | 00:46 |
| Jaffa | heh | 00:46 |
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| Stskeeps | http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2009/01/12/repos-a-la-mer/ <- look at post 10, click in post 11 | 00:46 |
| lcuk | heh wazd and microsoft up a tree | 00:47 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: indeed, was here earlier :) | 00:47 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: true :) | 00:47 |
| lcuk | but being perfectly honest :: wow at his simple lines :) | 00:48 |
| wazd | stskeeps: thats not a problem with MS, I'm just kidding | 00:48 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: hehe, i'm kidding too :> | 00:48 |
| wazd | stskeeps: I've just got in a real bad situation with that copycat wallpaper | 00:48 |
| Macer | hi | 00:48 |
| unixSnob | anyone change their gizmo password before? does it take a long time for the account to start working again? | 00:48 |
| lcuk | wazd, of course you have but how else can you show underwater scenes | 00:49 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: pitch black! | 00:50 |
| Stskeeps | (which was the uncreative first background of mer) | 00:50 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: okay, so, the problem is that the locale strings are not there at all | 00:52 |
| Stskeeps | previous versions had them | 00:52 |
| Stskeeps | in the fremantle pre-alpha SDK packages | 00:53 |
| Stskeeps | there are -some-, but definately not all | 00:53 |
| Jaffa | Ah, translation teams will be late in the plan. | 00:54 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: not even engineering english is there though | 00:54 |
| Stskeeps | and the strings used to be there | 00:54 |
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| * Stskeeps ponders hotpatching maemo-af-desktop just so it stops saying home_ap_home_view | 00:55 | |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, its not a big deal as long as we document it as we notice them | 00:55 |
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| Jaffa | Is there a basic heuristic for >50% of the time turning the key into something sensible enough? | 00:56 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: google for key | 00:56 |
| Stskeeps | (i'm not kidding) | 00:56 |
| Stskeeps | (try google sfil_li_modified_today) | 00:57 |
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| Stskeeps | with filetype:po | 00:58 |
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| Stskeeps | anyhow. i actually anticipated this - if anyone wants to join in and add some strings, there's a mer-translations group on launchpad. | 01:00 |
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| Stskeeps | it's pretty obvious to figure out what to add to the .po files when you google, and which branch to check out | 01:01 |
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| Jaffa | Any further missing ones could be filled in with something like: s/^.*?_\w\w_(.*)/$1/; then _ -> ' ' and capitalise every word. | 01:01 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: ah, so they exist in maemo svn not just any of the packages yet? | 01:02 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: they exist in older versions | 01:02 |
| Stskeeps | i have utterly no idea why they're no part of the new .po's | 01:02 |
| Stskeeps | +t | 01:02 |
| Stskeeps | let's take home_ap_home_view as example. it's not there for some silly reason. google home_ap_home_view filetype:po , it suggests it's maemo-af-desktop-l10n , so you 'bzr branch lp:~mer-translations/m-r/maemo-af-desktop-i10n' add in the 3 lines of translation from your google match, bzr commit with a commit message, bzr push | 01:05 |
| Stskeeps | or, we ask nokia where they went, which could take a while, instead of a couple of hours of work of the immediate things we can see are missing | 01:06 |
| Jaffa | Fairly drudgerous work, tho' | 01:09 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 01:09 |
| Stskeeps | think i'll file a bug and see what they say | 01:09 |
| lcuk | +1 :) seems like a sensible option | 01:10 |
| qwerty12_N800 | fixed in fremantle / wait for the production release :p | 01:10 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: that'd send me into a raging fit | 01:11 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hehe | 01:11 |
| qwerty12_N800 | it would be cool if the gettext "id's" looked pretty "normal" | 01:13 |
| Stskeeps | i think it's okay they stand out | 01:13 |
| Stskeeps | forces the developer to do something about it | 01:13 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: what font are you using in your screenshots at the moment? | 01:14 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: i'm actually not sure | 01:14 |
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| Stskeeps | it's not nokia, for certain | 01:14 |
| timeless | hello | 01:15 |
| Jaffa | The Android ones look pretty sweet and have a compatible licence, FWIW | 01:15 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah, but are they compatible with X? :P | 01:15 |
| Jaffa | They're just TTFs | 01:15 |
| thiagoss | how do I install soappy into maemo? | 01:15 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: I use 'Droid Sans' in Notes in diablo as a nicer font (and maybe even Droid Sans Mono in Terminal, I forget) | 01:15 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, We're probably using fonts derived from the Vera Bitstream collection | 01:16 |
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| Jaffa | Bingo: http://damieng.com/blog/2007/11/14/droid-font-family-courtesy-of-google-ascender | 01:17 |
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| Stskeeps | damnit, i didn't hit bug 4000 | 01:18 |
| Jaffa | ...and the git versions (including ttf binaries) http://android.git.kernel.org/?p=platform/frameworks/base.git;a=tree;f=data/fonts | 01:18 |
| Stskeeps | 4001 :/ | 01:18 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps, don't worry. There's always 5000 ;) | 01:18 |
| Jaffa | qwerty12_N800: betcha #5000 will be resolved "fixed in harmattan" ;-) | 01:19 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lol | 01:19 |
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| Stskeeps | wtf | 01:19 |
| Stskeeps | my Mer actually discovers my two machines in file chooser | 01:20 |
| timeless | jaffa: is that a good thing? | 01:20 |
| timeless | that we only get 1000 bugs between today and harmattan's release? | 01:20 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Fremantle seems, to me, to be the "Oh shit!" release. I wonder what Harmattan will be like :) | 01:20 |
| timeless | did you paste the string i mentioned into the top field? | 01:20 |
| timeless | oops, wrong window | 01:20 |
| Jaffa | timeless: No, only 1000 bugs between today and when bugs are only dealt with in a release which is still ~6 months away ;-) | 01:20 |
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| lcuk | whos gonna be the first to pitch up a tent in Fremantle WA ? | 01:21 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: next summit, eh? | 01:21 |
| lcuk | would be nice :) | 01:21 |
| Jaffa | qwerty12_N800: "oh shit, everyone's UI's better than us" or "oh shit, we need to rejig some things" or "oh shit, we haven't released something for a while, better do something"? ;-) | 01:21 |
| lcuk | should we start naming apps after attractions in the area ;) | 01:22 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Jaffa, I choose 2) :) | 01:22 |
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| * Jaffa would like to hope it's 1 *and* 2. And that the Fremantle UI'll get us further away from desktop computer metaphors which just don't work on a device this size. | 01:24 | |
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| johnx | huh? WA as in Washington State, USA? | 01:26 |
| Stskeeps | western australia? :P | 01:26 |
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| johnx | ah, sad, yeah it's OZ | 01:27 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: saw the explanation for home_ap_home_view? | 01:28 |
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| johnx | Stskeeps, we don't localizations (a .po file) that works with it right now? | 01:28 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: more like we have the .po files but they are missing some things :) | 01:28 |
| Stskeeps | some things are there but some are not - some that -used- to be there | 01:29 |
| johnx | ah, I assume Nokia is working on some new translations? | 01:29 |
| Stskeeps | i guess | 01:29 |
| Stskeeps | but english translations? :P | 01:29 |
| johnx | well, for now we can release for people who speak gettext | 01:29 |
| Stskeeps | true | 01:29 |
| * Stskeeps notes to himself NM isn't that stable at connections and ponders what it was he fixed in deblet | 01:30 | |
| johnx | Gettext version: download link - US English: coming soon | 01:30 |
| wazd | http://s41.radikal.ru/i091/0901/ad/c84bde26b6a2.jpg | 01:30 |
| qwerty12_N800 | johnx, en_GB version: download link - English: coming soon :p | 01:30 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: any particular reason for the big white stripe? | 01:31 |
| johnx | wazd, i like it. I'm not sure about the bubbles though | 01:31 |
| Jaffa | wazd: Nice. I always get concerned about relatively large edges/changes in wallpaper backgrounds. Although, I suppose the coral, the white light and the bubbles could be more subdued in the wallpaper version | 01:31 |
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| Stskeeps | wazd: looks great though, like all your work :) | 01:31 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: did you try out the new rescue menu yet? :> | 01:32 |
| johnx | not yet, still finishing off f-b-w and h-d-e after some interruptions :) | 01:32 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 01:32 |
| Stskeeps | i'll take a look at hildon-icons then | 01:33 |
| wazd | well, white stripe is kinda ray of light :) | 01:33 |
| wazd | maybe it's too bright | 01:33 |
| Jaffa | wazd: works on a startup screen, I think. | 01:33 |
| wazd | It still needs a lot of light'n'shadow work so it's just fyi :) | 01:34 |
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| wazd | But I still think that Mer should leave current wallpaper as default | 01:43 |
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| wazd | I bet that there are thousands more such pics and photos, so what | 01:43 |
| johnx | wazd, I agree | 01:43 |
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| Jaffa | wazd: I think there should be a shiny mer start-up screen, a shiny mer wallpaper (the default if any nokia-provided wallpaper is currently selected, say) and a shiny mer theme | 01:43 |
| johnx | wazd, I know I've seen wallpapers similar to that one for quite a long time | 01:44 |
| wazd | Yep, thats pretty confusing for me, but whatever, it's great wallpaper anyway | 01:44 |
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| Jaffa | s/shiny/cool/ to avoid any confusion :) | 01:44 |
| wazd | Cause corals are really bad stuff for wallpaper | 01:44 |
| wazd | much detail noise | 01:45 |
| Jaffa | wazd: agreed 100%. But if it was faded out to be more subtle, it might work | 01:45 |
| wazd | And if I remove corals, then (It's magic!) it appears to be Win 7 | 01:45 |
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| tehforum | Howdy. | 01:45 |
| wazd | Life was so great without Win 7 :) | 01:46 |
| wazd | hello there | 01:46 |
| tehforum | Without? | 01:46 |
| tehforum | Hello, wazd. | 01:47 |
| wazd | yep | 01:47 |
| timeless | w7 is quite nice | 01:47 |
| tehforum | Why? | 01:47 |
| johnx | tehforum, they foojacked his wallpaper idea | 01:47 |
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| tehforum | I haven't used torrents to download it yet, because the download speeds were crappy from the ms servers | 01:47 |
| Jaffa | Anyway, I should bed since the kids(!) are asleep | 01:48 |
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| tehforum | understandable really with 3gb file, thousands of people wanting it at any given time | 01:48 |
| tehforum | But, what is the wallpaper idea? | 01:48 |
| wazd | tehforum: http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2009/01/12/repos-a-la-mer/#comments | 01:48 |
| wazd | Jaffa: aw, I forgot to congratulate you :) | 01:49 |
| Jaffa | wazd: no probs; thanks :-) | 01:49 |
| wazd | Jaffa: hope they doesn't look like win7 xD | 01:49 |
| johnx | Jaffa, glad to hear everything went so smoothly that the kids are even willing to sleep :) | 01:49 |
| tehforum | Someone fill me in? :p | 01:50 |
| Jaffa | wazd: nah, just each other (http://tinyurl.com/kathrynflegg <-- proud father :-)) | 01:50 |
| tehforum | 'Gratz! | 01:50 |
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| Jaffa | ta | 01:50 |
| Jaffa | Anyway, g'night | 01:50 |
| tehforum | Good night | 01:51 |
| tehforum | you're from England? | 01:51 |
| wazd | Jaffa: superqute :) | 01:51 |
| wazd | Jaffa: gnite | 01:51 |
| Jaffa | tehforum: aye | 01:51 |
| tehforum | Same :) | 01:51 |
| Jaffa | Quite a few of us are. Some of us are proper Brits from up north too :) | 01:52 |
| tehforum | From north | 01:52 |
| tehforum | How about the center? | 01:52 |
| * Jaffa 's in the centre atm. | 01:52 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | North? Nah, it's all about the South :p | 01:52 |
| tehforum | North vs Center vs South | 01:53 |
| tehforum | Bring it on :p | 01:53 |
| lcuk | /ignore birmingham | 01:53 |
| tehforum | Boo. | 01:53 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hehe | 01:53 |
| * Jaffa is from the north (nr. Manchester), lives in the centre (Rugby) and works in the south (London) | 01:53 | |
| tehforum | You'll have to beat yourself up in that case | 01:54 |
| * Jaffa applies the NP-complete Travelling Salesman problem to his life. I'll go offline for a non-polynomial amount of time to compute it. | 01:54 | |
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| tehforum | There's a maemo uk channel I think | 01:55 |
| tehforum | maemo-uk? | 01:55 |
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| tehforum | Why is it that when you switch from an mplayer window to something else it just "freezes" | 01:57 |
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| tehforum | and you have to click on the three green one blue square thing to get rid of the "freezing" | 01:58 |
| johnx | tehforum, mplayers uses neat hacks to get the display updates as fast as possible | 01:58 |
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| tehforum | Twas fast | 02:00 |
| tehforum | Thank you, johnx | 02:00 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: we so need dsme-tools and the wifi power saver.. | 02:00 |
| Stskeeps | can feel my tablet getting hot | 02:00 |
| johnx | heh...my "new charger" barely keeps up with battery drain in mer right now | 02:01 |
| tehforum | Is there anyway that I could see the gmplauncher window switching from a video? | 02:01 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, ok, just submitted h-d-e and f-b-w to builder. don't care if they even build right now, just need sleep. | 02:05 |
| johnx | 'night | 02:05 |
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| Stskeeps | nini | 02:05 |
| johnx | <- moved to London time O_o | 02:05 |
| wazd | nite sts | 02:05 |
| wazd | can somebody explain how to setup tablet -> desktop ssh connection?) | 02:06 |
| wazd | I've installed openssh to the tablet and can't locate it | 02:06 |
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| tehforum | What are peoples wpm's on their n810 keyboard, or n800 touch? | 02:09 |
| tehforum | I say I'm pretty fast after a year of use | 02:09 |
| tehforum | Using proper capitalization | 02:09 |
| tehforum | Amd all that other stuff | 02:09 |
| tehforum | :p | 02:09 |
| tehforum | .. | 02:10 |
| tehforum | brb | 02:10 |
| tehforum | http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=26157&highlight=ssh | 02:11 |
| tehforum | ssh from tablet to linux bos? | 02:11 |
| tehforum | box. | 02:11 |
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| tehforum | Would that help? | 02:11 |
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| Stskeeps | wazd: regarding mer theme, we could maybe draw inspiration from modern "smartphone" uis, .. what thoughts do you have on this topic? | 02:22 |
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| wazd | back for a while | 02:30 |
| wazd | tehforum: thanks, I'll check it | 02:30 |
| Stskeeps | hehe.. im prolly going to bed soon. actually. already there :P | 02:30 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: well, right now I haven't got any specific ideas bout theme, but I think I can still make something unique :) | 02:31 |
| Stskeeps | alright :) | 02:31 |
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| wazd | And as for wallpaper: if somebody thinks that I'm such a dumbass that I'll consciously copycat windows wallpaper and claim that I did it on my own, well, bad for him :) | 02:35 |
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| lcuk | wazd :D | 02:37 |
| wazd | I actually can't even google it in descent resolution) | 02:37 |
| lcuk | hah | 02:38 |
| lcuk | wazd, here you go, i found one http://tabletui.files.wordpress.com/2009/01/mer_9.jpg?w=800&h=480 | 02:39 |
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| wazd | lcuk: bastard :) | 02:40 |
| * lcuk tips his hat | 02:41 | |
| wazd | http://viennaos.net/uploads/posts/2008-12/1228820445_1-.png | 02:41 |
| lcuk | you want a beer | 02:41 |
| wazd | I already got mine :) | 02:41 |
| lcuk | cool, you did more to mer ;) | 02:41 |
| wazd | Well, microsoft has very special point of view at how water looks :) | 02:42 |
| lcuk | i personally feel the brightness is too great on any of these images | 02:43 |
| lcuk | i dont like having hotspots in backgrounds | 02:43 |
| lcuk | it draws the eye | 02:43 |
| wazd | http://viennaos.net/uploads/posts/2008-10/1225266118_01.jpg <- here it is | 02:43 |
| wazd | lcuk: yep, hete them too | 02:44 |
| lcuk | havign said that ive got a massive image of earth on mine at the moment | 02:44 |
| wazd | hate | 02:44 |
| * Stskeeps notes to himself that the nokia hands logo is creepy | 02:44 | |
| * qwerty12_N800 coughs & points towards Benson's mod... | 02:45 | |
| lcuk | http://rolandvb.topcities.com/Weather/image65.htm | 02:45 |
| wazd | lcuk: nice :) | 02:45 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: have you implemented my loading screen for Mer? | 02:47 |
| lcuk | gah! ive implemented font caching at the wrong level | 02:48 |
| lcuk | the font object returned from the cache holds the name and size and specific render scale, a user app shouldnt have to know its rendering at scale 0.2 of a 12 point font | 02:49 |
| lcuk | :'( | 02:49 |
| lcuk | (font scaling is new but required) | 02:50 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: i implemented the rescue menu, and the splash screen is your wallpaper + the logo | 02:50 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: you didn't like "loading..." image?) | 02:52 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 02:52 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: it's basically the splash screen at here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yPP2BGsY4BM , but with white line instead, and with the wallpaper one + logo | 02:55 |
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| Stskeeps | this logo: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer-logo.jpg | 02:56 |
| Stskeeps | works quite well actually | 02:56 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: I was posting http://s40.radikal.ru/i088/0901/36/72caee1ee4ea.jpg image, but whatever) | 02:59 |
| Stskeeps | yeah - that might come in handy for one of the places though | 03:00 |
| Stskeeps | like the first boot wizard | 03:00 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: nice :) | 03:02 |
| b-man | Stskeeps: what's the current mer tar.gz rootstrap mirror?, i'll be adding it to the updated installer. | 03:03 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: i'm generating a new one atm but the new one will be 0.6 | 03:05 |
| Stskeeps | but we miss a few things before that is 100% done | 03:05 |
| b-man | k | 03:05 |
| Stskeeps | we have network-manager working, which helps a lot :P | 03:05 |
| b-man | sweet :) | 03:06 |
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| Stskeeps | anyhow | 03:06 |
| Stskeeps | bedtime | 03:06 |
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| lcuk | gnite Stskeeps | 03:06 |
| b-man | g'night lcuk | 03:07 |
| b-man | edit: stskeeps | 03:07 |
| b-man | sorry :p | 03:07 |
| * b-man gos back to tweeking/debugging installer | 03:09 | |
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| Shadow_M | is there a way to get man on maemo | 03:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~maemo-man | 03:51 |
| infobot | somebody said maemo-man was http://maemo.org/development/documentation/man_pages/ | 03:51 |
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| Shadow_M | thanks | 03:55 |
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| TheFatal | and maemo-man for n80 ? | 04:04 |
| TheFatal | n8*0 ? | 04:04 |
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| TheFatal | johnx: whit cfdisk, etx3 is number 83 ? | 04:17 |
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| TheFatal | whit cfdisk, etx3 is number 83 ? | 04:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N800, nice, didn't notice MyPaint in Extras. | 04:18 |
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| Shadow_M | TheFatal, what are you trying to do | 04:33 |
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| TheFatal_ | Are someone online ?? | 04:38 |
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| TheFatal_ | :-$ | 04:41 |
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| TheFatal_ | :-/ | 04:44 |
| ciroip | TheFatal I guess is pretty late in europe | 04:45 |
| TheFatal_ | I have no idea what times in europe | 04:47 |
| ciroip | 6 hours from ny | 04:47 |
| ciroip | 5 in uk | 04:47 |
| ciroip | more or less | 04:48 |
| ciroip | :) | 04:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | TheFatal_, a couple hours ahead of Argentina. | 04:48 |
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| TheFatal_ | So if here are 1 am, there ... Mmm... 5 am? | 04:49 |
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| TheFatal_ | Ok, then probably i'll make an experiment | 04:52 |
| TheFatal_ | see u later | 04:52 |
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| GeneralAntilles | People wonder why Nokia does poorly in the States | 04:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | You can't buy their freaking phones. | 04:57 |
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| ciroip | GeneralAntilles: east or west coast? | 05:12 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I'm East coast | 05:13 |
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| * towo tries to imagine GeneralAntilles doing the "E" with his fingers. | 05:14 | |
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| ciroip | and If I can ask, how you are so involved with nokia? | 05:14 |
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| GeneralAntilles | ciroip, I'm not sure I understand the question. Is that "How did you get where you are now?" or "How do you have the time?" | 05:15 |
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| ciroip | How did you get where you are now? :) | 05:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | I just involved myself. | 05:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hung out here, participated on itT and the lists | 05:17 |
| ciroip | nice answer | 05:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Started doing stuff. | 05:17 |
| ciroip | si, I mean, everything online | 05:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Started triaging on Bugzilla, writing for and organizing the wiki. | 05:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | I didn't get to LinuxTag or the Summit. | 05:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | The whole of my participation in Maemo is community-related and digital. ;) | 05:18 |
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| TheFatal1 | I did it !!! I'm booting from internal mmc :D | 05:32 |
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| Shadow____X | lol | 05:37 |
| Shadow____X | how did you do it TheFatal | 05:37 |
| Shadow____X | and what d id you use | 05:37 |
| TheFatal1 | I used pb | 05:38 |
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| Shadow____X | ah yes | 05:39 |
| Shadow____X | you know | 05:39 |
| Shadow____X | pbeasy is even easier | 05:39 |
| TheFatal1 | Yes, but is too easy :P like ubuntu... If we have no difficult, it is borring | 05:43 |
| TheFatal1 | If it has no difficult i wanna say | 05:44 |
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| TheFatal1 | What is ncurses-base ?? | 06:02 |
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| AFBN810 | hello | 06:50 |
| r2d2rogers | hey AFBN810 | 06:53 |
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| LopLiii | anybody still switched on? | 07:55 |
| r2d2rogers | LopLiii: barely ;) | 07:57 |
| LopLiii | ahh there you are | 07:57 |
| LopLiii | wht do u use r2d2 as maemo platform? | 07:58 |
| r2d2rogers | the 770 | 07:58 |
| r2d2rogers | have two, one with OS2008HE, and one I'm participating in the testing on Mer | 07:59 |
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| LopLiii | im gonna buy one of 770/800/810 and found that the price differ is about 100usd of each model, if you are me what do you gonna buy? | 08:00 |
| r2d2rogers | what do you want to do with it? | 08:01 |
| r2d2rogers | I personally am hard on my personal mobile devices, | 08:01 |
| r2d2rogers | so I stick withthe 770 and it's metal slip cover | 08:01 |
| r2d2rogers | but the 800 appeals for it's dual SDcard slots | 08:02 |
| r2d2rogers | I like the idea of the 810, but I'm not a fan of some of their design choices, and I haven't seen one in person | 08:02 |
| LopLiii | about the issue of 770 being said that is just too much bug inside, do you agree with tht? | 08:03 |
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| LopLiii | or i think its only about how we got it set...? | 08:03 |
| r2d2rogers | LopLiii: the original OS was quite buggy, but I've gotten mine to an acceptable level of usefulness, even while I help with getting something better available | 08:04 |
| r2d2rogers | I use my 770 for ebooks, random netowrk lookups and ssh terminal use | 08:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | The 770 is just plain slow. | 08:04 |
| LopLiii | hi GeneralAntilles | 08:06 |
| r2d2rogers | <G> | 08:06 |
| r2d2rogers | LopLiii: he is right about that | 08:06 |
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| r2d2rogers | especially compares to the N8x0s | 08:07 |
| LopLiii | Do you prefer 800 or 810 with a 100$ gap? | 08:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | N800 | 08:09 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Unless hardware keyboards are really damn important to you. | 08:09 |
| r2d2rogers | personally I'd probably go N800, but I have a bluetooth keyboard and GPS reciever already | 08:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | I wish the 5800 were offered subsidized. . . . | 08:10 |
| Corsac | hmhm, is there a thinkwiki.org for nXXX ? | 08:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://wiki.maemo.org/ | 08:13 |
| LopLiii | thx guys | 08:20 |
| r2d2rogers | np | 08:23 |
| r2d2rogers | Good ngiht | 08:23 |
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| RST38h | moo all | 08:40 |
| RST38h | General: they are relatively cheap unsubsidized | 08:40 |
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| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, relatively, but not cheap enough. | 08:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's $500 from Amazon, $350 from one of the flagship stores. | 08:46 |
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| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, you like yours, though? | 08:47 |
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| RST38h | General: It is pretty nice | 08:59 |
| RST38h | General: Not stellar, not shiny, UI has got a few problems, but nice. It is not an N- product too, so it is built cheaply but well | 09:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | I was looking at the Samsung Eternity, but it really doesn't stack up. | 09:00 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Oh, by the way, I dunno if you found out already, but apparently it's a 369MHz ARM11 of some sort. | 09:01 |
| RST38h | ouldn't go with Samsung if you want a smartphone | 09:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not after a smartphone | 09:01 |
| RST38h | Nobody tells WHAT SoC is used in 5800. No idea why, but it sounds like ahuge secret | 09:01 |
| RST38h | General: then something like Samsung U100 will do the job | 09:02 |
| RST38h | 7mm thick, dumb phone | 09:02 |
| RST38h | pairs with N8x0 | 09:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, I've already got that. | 09:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | SGH-A717 | 09:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | But it's time to renew and I'd like something new. | 09:03 |
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| RST38h | BTW, no book reader for 5800 yet. There is a beta build of QReader but it has got a few problems | 09:03 |
| RST38h | You can try E63 (really chip phone, qwerty, s60) | 09:04 |
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| RST38h | s/chip/cheap/ mhm | 09:04 |
| RST38h | ok, off to work | 09:05 |
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| * GeneralAntilles looks at the 6650. | 09:28 | |
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| infobot | Sargun: Have you had your vi today? | 09:33 |
| Mousey | wth | 09:35 |
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| Mousey | i wish there was amarok for n810 | 09:44 |
| Mousey | =( | 09:44 |
| Mousey | i <3 crossfading | 09:44 |
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| johnx | Mousey, should be able to compile it now that we have Qt ... but how would it look on an 800x480 window? | 10:06 |
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| Mousey | AWESOME AND WIN | 10:07 |
| Mousey | that's how | 10:07 |
| Mousey | it's themeable, so i don't see why the resolution would be an issue, also, it has a player window as well as the playlist window, so we can do like xmms.. | 10:07 |
| Mousey | also, 800x480 is PLENTY | 10:07 |
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| johnx | everytime I see screenshots it looks like it wants to take up about 1024x800 at minimum | 10:08 |
| johnx | try resizing the window on your desktop, see how small it gets before it's snot useful. Also: check memory usage :) | 10:09 |
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| * StsN800 tries to convince himself to get up | 10:10 | |
| * GeneralAntilles throws pennies at StsN800. | 10:11 | |
| johnx | StsN800, at what point did we end up on the same schedule? O_o | 10:12 |
| StsN800 | johnx, i fell asleep 1-2 hours after you | 10:12 |
| johnx | and I've been up for ~40 minutes. about to head out to work. back in ~7 hours | 10:13 |
| Sargun | bye | 10:14 |
| StsN800 | johnx, similar | 10:14 |
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| aquatix | morning all | 10:18 |
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| solmumaha | morning | 10:24 |
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| StsN800 | hm | 10:30 |
| StsN800 | qt went lgpl | 10:30 |
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| StsN800 | morn meiz | 10:37 |
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| RST38h | General: There is one more possibility I missed: E51 ($200 and up) | 10:42 |
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| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, I'm looking at http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/reviews/item/Nokia_6650.php | 10:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which I can get for somewhere around $0-$70 depending on what I can talk them down to. | 10:57 |
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| aquatix | GeneralAntilles: that looks rather nice for a nokia phone | 10:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | aquatix, I had overlooked it a couple times on the AT&T site not realizing it was S60. | 10:58 |
| aquatix | heh, yeah | 10:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | But I really prefer clamshells. | 10:59 |
| aquatix | clamshells are nice | 11:00 |
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| aquatix | and this one looks rather cool indeed | 11:00 |
| aquatix | those prices you talked about are with a subscription i guess? | 11:00 |
| RST38h | General: Looks cool, as long as the form factor is good with you | 11:01 |
| RST38h | (and I guess it is, given the previous model) | 11:01 |
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| GeneralAntilles | aquatix, they have different discount rates for new customers and existing customers, sadly. | 11:02 |
| RST38h | Steel shell too. | 11:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | (2-year contract) | 11:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | But I've never had trouble talking them into giving me the new customer price. | 11:02 |
| RST38h | Dialpad may be uncomfortable (Razr dialpad is terribly uncomfortable) | 11:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | I've already got a flat-plastic dialpad, so not a huge issue: http://common.ziffdavisinternet.com/util_get_image/18/0,1425,i=184835,00.jpg | 11:03 |
| RST38h | Relatively decent camera quality | 11:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Never use the camera on any cellphone. | 11:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Besides, I'll be using the nice 5MP on the back of the RX-51 if any. ;) | 11:05 |
| pupnik | god bless cameras on cellphones | 11:05 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I'm also not planning on attending any political rallies or police-brutality seminars anytime soon. ;) | 11:06 |
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| pupnik | get ready for some fun, GeneralAntilles | 11:10 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:18 |
| X-Fade | Morning.. | 11:18 |
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| RST38h | General: You need cameras for those? | 11:23 |
| * RST38h always thought that only weed was the requirement... | 11:23 | |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, it's a great thing to have when things go sour. | 11:24 |
| RST38h | ah | 11:24 |
| RST38h | The police does not confiscate cameras yet? Seems like the first logical thing to do | 11:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | They can try, but they don't have a right to. | 11:25 |
| RST38h | Well, I remember them prohibiting the use of masks (including gas masks) | 11:25 |
| RST38h | Under some bogus counter-terrorism reason | 11:26 |
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| pupnik_ | we need mesh networking | 11:28 |
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| RST38h | you first need enogh nodes for that | 11:28 |
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| x29a_ | hmm, weird, is the keyboardbacklight on even if its pushed in in the n810? | 11:33 |
| x29a_ | looking from the side it seems there is some light | 11:33 |
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| pupnik_ | non sense | 11:35 |
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| x29a | pupnik_: explain | 11:36 |
| pupnik_ | how do you push in a backlight | 11:36 |
| x29a | i push in by keyboard, which is backlit | 11:36 |
| pupnik_ | then the light goes on, yes? | 11:37 |
| x29a | the backlight of the keyboard is on, yes | 11:37 |
| x29a | wasting energy | 11:37 |
| pupnik_ | then it goes off | 11:37 |
| x29a | nope | 11:37 |
| pupnik_ | ah ok | 11:38 |
| x29a | if i lock screen and keyboard the backlight of the tft turns off | 11:38 |
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| x29a | but the keyboard is still on (i can look through the little space beside the mini-sd slot) | 11:39 |
| pupnik_ | that is not good | 11:39 |
| x29a | true, thats what i figured, can you reproduce the same behavior? | 11:40 |
| x29a | or lemme check the bugtracker first | 11:40 |
| pupnik_ | not with my device | 11:40 |
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| X-Fade | Lol ... http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=257452&postcount=146 | 11:40 |
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| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, I about choked to death when I read that. | 11:41 |
| X-Fade | Heh, yeah pretty funny :) | 11:41 |
| RST38h | it is all nice and funny except that marketing department's definition of "usable" or "functional" does not necessarily coincides with yours or mine | 11:43 |
| aquatix | lol | 11:43 |
| RST38h | As a good example see N95 pushed as a "blogging phone". Not a lot of people use it for that. | 11:44 |
| glass | it's ok for photobloggin | 11:45 |
| glass | i used n70 a lot for direct-to-flicker stuff | 11:45 |
| aquatix | `but I can confidently predict that battery life will be very long indeed - expect to go 3 or 4 days between charges unless you make heavy use of the GPS' wait what? | 11:45 |
| aquatix | since when is 3-4 days `very long' | 11:46 |
| glass | aquatix: modern phones battery lifes are pretty much dependandt on how much use it gets | 11:46 |
| aquatix | true | 11:46 |
| Jaffa | Let's send 'em a couple of Psion Series 5s (or 3's) | 11:46 |
| glass | so speaking in days is usually quite meaningless | 11:46 |
| aquatix | but this is about a regular s60 clamshell without wifi | 11:46 |
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| aquatix | Jaffa: my old sony clie did 1 month on a battery :) | 11:47 |
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| aquatix | but I also have had phones that worked for a week straight | 11:47 |
| x29a | philips 9@9 standbytime <3 | 11:48 |
| aquatix | for example :) | 11:50 |
| aquatix | this is about a symbian phone of course, but still ;) | 11:50 |
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| x29a | oh right, no direct comparison then =) | 11:51 |
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| florian | good morning | 12:00 |
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| lardman | what's with the emails on -users? | 12:07 |
| lardman | asking about an n8x0 with 3G... | 12:07 |
| lardman | hmm, do they not read, or listen, n900... | 12:07 |
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| X-Fade | lardman: They want a retrofit obviously ;) | 12:08 |
| Corsac | well, I'd say it'd be ok with a n900 too | 12:08 |
| Corsac | if only it existed :) | 12:08 |
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| lardman | ah, so that's the issue is it, the fact that they think an n810 + 3G could be manufactured and released sooner than the n900... hmm | 12:09 |
| X-Fade | Corsac: Oh, I'm sure it exists ;) | 12:09 |
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| X-Fade | Corsac: On some development floor in a certain Nokia building.. | 12:09 |
| X-Fade | Corsac: Only they won't show it nor talk about it of course :D | 12:10 |
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| Stskeeps | i kinda admire nokia's ability to keep things inside though | 12:10 |
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| Stskeeps | that must be a bitch to administer | 12:10 |
| Corsac | X-Fade: yeah but I meant a released product ;p | 12:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | I want another goddamn camera phone leak. :( | 12:10 |
| Corsac | which I'd really like too | 12:11 |
| Corsac | as I wonder if I shoiuld buy an n810 now | 12:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | As opposed to waiting a few months for something that's at least twice as powerful? | 12:11 |
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| Stskeeps | okay. my work Word is -so- not going to commit suicide today. got a article to write the next 2 days. | 12:12 |
| lardman | save often | 12:12 |
| aquatix | Stskeeps: write the article in a text editor, than copy to word and mark up? | 12:13 |
| aquatix | or just use latex ;) | 12:13 |
| X-Fade | Use svn/git for versioning ;) | 12:13 |
| lardman | or clay tablets, probably faster than latex | 12:13 |
| * aquatix uses .tex files and svn for his papers | 12:13 | |
| aquatix | lardman: tsk ;) | 12:13 |
| Stskeeps | aquatix: yeah, and i do normally too | 12:13 |
| Stskeeps | but i was lazy this time around | 12:13 |
| lardman | aquatix: :) | 12:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Turn on autosaving? | 12:14 |
| RST38h | If you are not doing anything special or including images, LaTeX will do the job | 12:14 |
| RST38h | Otherwise - WordPad and save in RTF | 12:14 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lardman, -users is just silly. | 12:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | End of story. | 12:14 |
| lardman | does word crash for you often? | 12:14 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: yeah | 12:15 |
| Corsac | GeneralAntilles: yeah | 12:15 |
| RST38h | lardman: For me, anything bigger than 20 pages or so crashes Word | 12:15 |
| Corsac | GeneralAntilles: especially since I dont know for which value of “a few months” | 12:15 |
| lardman | RST38h: oh, nasty | 12:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Corsac, Summer 2009. | 12:15 |
| Corsac | and n900 will be clearly more expensive than 300€ | 12:15 |
| RST38h | lardman: Sometimes, when I start using "features" like tables, images, formulas, it dies earlier | 12:15 |
| * lardman wonders what an a-acute || ¬ is? | 12:15 | |
| Corsac | GeneralAntilles: for example september 20? | 12:15 |
| Corsac | :) | 12:15 |
| RST38h | Corsac: You will only be able to pay for it in albanian dinars | 12:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Corsac, the Beta SDK is coming in May. | 12:16 |
| Corsac | :) | 12:16 |
| RST38h | Corsac: So, start buying those dinars off eBay like *right now*. | 12:16 |
| aquatix | Stskeeps: OOo writer might be an option even | 12:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Extrapolate what you will about the hardware release date. | 12:16 |
| lardman | RST38h: Word has served reasonably well for me, only thing that goes wrong with large documents (>100 pages or so I guess) is page+section breaks start going strange | 12:16 |
| aquatix | RST38h: or british pounds :) | 12:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Corsac, but be aware, the N810 is basically EoL. | 12:16 |
| Corsac | mhm ok | 12:16 |
| * aquatix wants an N900 | 12:17 | |
| * Corsac too | 12:17 | |
| * lardman too! | 12:17 | |
| Corsac | but *now* | 12:17 |
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| aquatix | gf can have my n810 :) | 12:17 |
| Corsac | :) | 12:17 |
| RST38h | lardman: Well, tabs, whitespaces, page breaks never worked right for me in Word | 12:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Corsac, I'd say do it if you can find an N800 or N810 for under $200. | 12:17 |
| Corsac | well, at least before fosdem | 12:17 |
| Corsac | :) | 12:17 |
| aquatix | Corsac: nah, i can wait for a few months if they create it well then | 12:17 |
| aquatix | heh | 12:17 |
| RST38h | lardman: Word has some "ideas" about them that do not coincide with what I want to do most of the time | 12:17 |
| Corsac | yeah but you have a n810 already :) | 12:17 |
| aquatix | had that crave last fosdem ;) | 12:17 |
| aquatix | had my n810 just in time | 12:18 |
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| lardman | RST38h: unfortunately, c'est la vie | 12:18 |
| aquatix | thankfully there are alternatives | 12:18 |
| aquatix | except not on our intranet | 12:18 |
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| RST38h | lardman: Microsoft can have its "la vie" and stick it up their collective le cul | 12:23 |
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| lardman | lol | 12:24 |
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| pupnik_ | not to mention the evil of the intel 8088 | 12:27 |
| pupnik_ | segment:offset broke my brain | 12:27 |
| RST38h | pupnik: you call THAT evil? | 12:27 |
| pupnik_ | give me a break, i was 13 | 12:28 |
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| RST38h | hehe | 12:28 |
| pupnik_ | motorola 68000 was at least non-sick | 12:28 |
| RST38h | http://www.x86.org/ddj/aug98/aug98.htm | 12:28 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: affirmative on the backspace crashing Xorg | 12:28 |
| florian | oh... Qt 4.5 will be LGPL licensed! | 12:28 |
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| RST38h | Finally | 12:29 |
| * RST38h praises Nokia for doing the right and obvious thing | 12:29 | |
| pupnik_ | oh good lord | 12:29 |
| RST38h | pupnik <-- evidently followed the x86.org url | 12:29 |
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| pupnik_ | heh | 12:30 |
| florian | Do I finally have to learn Qt?! ;) | 12:30 |
| RST38h | is there anything to learn? | 12:33 |
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| x29a | pupnik_: under which category would i file the keyboard backlight problem? | 12:54 |
| x29a | core? | 12:54 |
| pupnik_ | i have no idea | 12:55 |
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| RST38h | x29a: dsme probably | 12:57 |
| x29a | RST38h: dsme? | 13:00 |
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| wazd | noon all) | 13:26 |
| Stskeeps | morning | 13:27 |
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| aquatix | hm, who was the author/maintainer of the system load applet again? | 13:30 |
| aquatix | i liked his version that flashed the led while screenshotting | 13:30 |
| aquatix | instead of having the icon disappear | 13:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | osso-statusbar-cpu? | 13:30 |
| Stskeeps | load-applet | 13:30 |
| aquatix | yeah, load-applet | 13:31 |
| aquatix | i don't have my tablet on my currently :( | 13:31 |
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| * Stskeeps notes that exam reading doesn't get better of the professor you're going to exam with bursting into your office | 13:38 | |
| aquatix | hehe | 13:38 |
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| RST38h | moo, wazd | 13:43 |
| RST38h | Sts: Is he going to devour you alive or just suck your brains through a cocktail straw? | 13:44 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: same guy has been in here for various scary reasons, involving different cables and this time around, information on a CS course on CS science theory :P | 13:45 |
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| RST38h | Sts: he needs an information on CS from his students? Mmm | 13:47 |
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| Stskeeps | to his defense, it is a bitch getting information from the people running the course | 13:48 |
| Stskeeps | which is on another institute | 13:48 |
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| RST38h | Somebody or something has forced Apple to start approving web browser apps | 13:48 |
| RST38h | Sts: You should befriend him then and hope for favors during exam :) | 13:49 |
| aquatix | something called public opinion? | 13:49 |
| RST38h | aquatix: When was THAT figuring as a factor? | 13:49 |
| aquatix | dunno | 13:50 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: it's already horrible enough my former boss is the censor | 13:50 |
| aquatix | RST38h: was the only thing i could think about though | 13:50 |
| aquatix | or steve jobs wanted to try fennec | 13:50 |
| wazd | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yIutgtzwhAc - omg, thats hilarious :) | 13:50 |
| aquatix | wazd: ah yes :) | 13:51 |
| aquatix | i like the acting of those guys ;) | 13:51 |
| RST38h | Sts: censor in what meaning? | 13:51 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: well, in our system there's the examiner and the counterpart, the censor | 13:52 |
| Stskeeps | the censor is external to the institute usually, and the examiner and the censor has to agree on the grade for the exam | 13:52 |
| Stskeeps | and the censor can in the end override the examiners wish for a grade, but they have to document everything during the exam | 13:52 |
| Stskeeps | if there was a complaint over the grade eventually, etc | 13:53 |
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| RST38h | Sts: Ah, I see | 13:54 |
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| RST38h | Hehe, airplane tickets got *way* cheaper now =) | 13:55 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx|zaurus: backspace in xorg happens to me too btw | 13:56 |
| johnx|zaurus | bah | 13:56 |
| Stskeeps | maybe it's similar problem as b-mans | 13:57 |
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| johnx|zaurus | $&'$)ing keymap stuff | 13:57 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx|zaurus: on the positive side your auto-startx and first boot wizard works flawlessly | 13:57 |
| johnx|zaurus | Stskeeps: b-man's poblem sounds the same as we had in debian/deblet before the HAL .fdi is added | 13:57 |
| johnx|zaurus | never say flawlessly | 13:58 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 13:58 |
| johnx|zaurus | it will break with the wrong input I know | 13:58 |
| Stskeeps | ; rm -rf? | 13:58 |
| Stskeeps | ;) | 13:58 |
| Stskeeps | or better yet | 13:58 |
| Stskeeps | ; utelnetd! | 13:58 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:58 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx|zaurus: i use ubuntu HAL, btw | 13:59 |
| Stskeeps | not maemo | 13:59 |
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| johnx|zaurus | right, which is why b-man's problem confuses me | 14:00 |
| johnx|zaurus | a lot | 14:00 |
| TheFatal | http://www.vivalinux.com.ar/eventos/debian-lenny-con-firmware-propietario | 14:00 |
| Stskeeps | checking .xsession-errors | 14:00 |
| Stskeeps | (this is a file we want to put in /tmp ..) | 14:00 |
| johnx|zaurus | but there is some other keymap weirdness happening to my zaurus to | 14:00 |
| johnx|zaurus | BTW, really close to a workable vga layout :) | 14:01 |
| Stskeeps | maybe the problem is that we don't have a keymap | 14:01 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx|zaurus: i added r2d2rogers to mer-committers btw | 14:02 |
| johnx|zaurus | we obviously have something, but for example xev on my zaurus shows enter producing the right keysym but it does nothing in roxterm | 14:02 |
| johnx|zaurus | getting used to ctrl-m | 14:02 |
| johnx|zaurus | hmm...so mer has no keymap or HAL changes vs ubuntu, right? | 14:03 |
| Stskeeps | correct | 14:04 |
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| johnx|zaurus | so odd | 14:05 |
| johnx|zaurus | I kinda hate x keymap stuff | 14:05 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 14:05 |
| johnx|zaurus | I really want to tell it 'just use the console keymap' | 14:05 |
| johnx|zaurus | the whole thing was insane before HAL was even brought into the picture | 14:06 |
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| Stskeeps | i really need to figure out a way to get rid of gnome-keyring, or at least let it run its own course | 14:08 |
| Stskeeps | i'm also at a complete loss as to why the icons arent working in some places :) | 14:09 |
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| johnx|zaurus | yet another "why isn't the normal icon theme system good enough for Nokia?" | 14:10 |
| Stskeeps | no, i actually don't think so | 14:10 |
| johnx|zaurus | really? | 14:10 |
| Stskeeps | there's no direct difference between hildon-icons and sdk-default-icons | 14:11 |
| johnx|zaurus | ah, but I mean keeping them as part of the gtk theme in the first place | 14:11 |
| johnx|zaurus | I'll look when I get home | 14:11 |
| Stskeeps | backspace isn't "just" a first-boot-wizard problem btw | 14:12 |
| johnx|zaurus | yeah, i knew that actually | 14:12 |
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| johnx|zaurus | tested in roxterm too, with hilarious results | 14:13 |
| Stskeeps | roxterm works with HIM? | 14:14 |
| Stskeeps | except not having backspace is kinda a downer | 14:14 |
| johnx|zaurus | ah, tried matchbox-keyboard IIRC | 14:14 |
| Stskeeps | checkin' | 14:15 |
| johnx|zaurus | especially odd that backspace works on my zaurus keyboard | 14:16 |
| johnx|zaurus | but enter fails on n800 and zaurus | 14:16 |
| johnx|zaurus | stab stab stab | 14:16 |
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| johnx|zaurus | bleh, slow night here | 14:18 |
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| RST38h | johnx: #define normal icon system | 14:20 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx|zaurus: i'll see if i can build qwerty12's roxterm | 14:23 |
| johnx|zaurus | Stskeeps: ah, sounds good | 14:24 |
| Andrewfblack | Morning | 14:24 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx|zaurus: removing broken libvte and osso-xterm in repository | 14:25 |
| johnx|zaurus | ah, ok | 14:25 |
| * johnx|zaurus tests wifi powersaving on his zaurus... | 14:25 | |
| Stskeeps | actually, nm, going to do this later :P | 14:26 |
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| johnx|zaurus | also fine :) you done with exams now | 14:28 |
| johnx|zaurus | ? | 14:28 |
| Stskeeps | nop | 14:29 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:29 |
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| Stskeeps | got a B (second-best grade in .dk) in social and collaborative computing | 14:29 |
| Stskeeps | next up an article on pervasive positioning | 14:30 |
| Stskeeps | and then an exam in human-computer interaction | 14:30 |
| Stskeeps | (it's rare people get A, normally 1-2 people per class) | 14:30 |
| johnx|zaurus | that's for the best | 14:30 |
| aquatix | sounds good | 14:31 |
| aquatix | Stskeeps: good luck | 14:31 |
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| johnx|zaurus | some uni classes in the US give out A's unless you don't attend and some fail out most of the class. the middle road is probably better | 14:31 |
| Stskeeps | you work yourself up from a fail here really | 14:32 |
| johnx|zaurus | 'intro to comp sci: scheme' was a fun one :) | 14:32 |
| johnx|zaurus | one of those 'you have to be cruel to be kind classes' | 14:33 |
| Stskeeps | compiler courses are fun too | 14:34 |
| Stskeeps | the rule is generally "if you have a gf, you'll most likely loose her during this course. that's how much time you use on it" | 14:34 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:34 |
| johnx|zaurus | the lecture hall was packed the first day. i grabbed the last seat and then someone pulled in folding chairs. just after midterms i had a whole row to myself... | 14:34 |
| johnx|zaurus | yeah, my friend was telling me about file system design courses | 14:35 |
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| johnx|zaurus | fun fun :) | 14:35 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: how the hell could you get B in social computing?! | 14:39 |
| aquatix | wazd: not caring about users ;) | 14:40 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: Show them Mer and say "Wadeva!" | 14:40 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: i would have been able to get A if i had dragged in the big theory framework | 14:41 |
| Stskeeps | but i didn't, intentionally, so | 14:41 |
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| GeneralAntilles | dneary, you're gonna get lynched by the itT mob if they find out you're trying to shuffle them into a back room. ;) | 14:43 |
| johnx|zaurus | are we shuffling people into back rooms and I'm missingout? | 14:43 |
| aquatix | wazd: wadeva? | 14:43 |
| aquatix | oh | 14:43 |
| aquatix | nm :) | 14:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx|zaurus, minutes thread on maemo-community. | 14:44 |
| johnx|zaurus | ah, will read later. | 14:45 |
| Stskeeps | hm, quite a lot new maemo jobs | 14:45 |
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| GeneralAntilles | http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-community/2009-January/002880.html | 14:45 |
| Stskeeps | senior developer in bangalore, hmm :P | 14:45 |
| johnx|zaurus | mid level sys-admin in tokyo? | 14:45 |
| Andrewfblack | is there an ftp program for tablet? | 14:46 |
| Stskeeps | johnx|zaurus: http://nokia.taleo.net/careersection/10120/maemo/jobdetail.ftl ;) | 14:46 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx|zaurus: that sounds like a job for you.. | 14:47 |
| RST38h | it does not show | 14:47 |
| johnx|zaurus | Stskeeps: I was asking if it was there :P | 14:47 |
| johnx|zaurus | should have added a smiley | 14:47 |
| Stskeeps | johnx|zaurus: hehe | 14:47 |
| Stskeeps | johnx|zaurus: but honestly though, read the 'linux pre-integrator and release manager' part ;) | 14:48 |
| lcuk | johnx|zaurus, you misread it, "sys-admin FOR tokyo" you have to manage every single connection from grandma going online for the first time to haxx0rs | 14:49 |
| Stskeeps | oh damnit, non-unique url | 14:50 |
| Stskeeps | johnx|zaurus: http://www.nokia.com/imaginemaemo -> click here for details, page 4 | 14:51 |
| Stskeeps | the 14/nov/08 one | 14:51 |
| johnx|zaurus | aah, *bookmarked* | 14:51 |
| Stskeeps | that pretty much covers some of your experiences ;) | 14:51 |
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| johnx|zaurus | wow...old posting. wonder why it's not filled | 14:51 |
| Stskeeps | ' It will add an edge to your application if you have Linux System Administrator experience' | 14:51 |
| Stskeeps | ;) | 14:51 |
| johnx|zaurus | eep. back to work. catch you in a couple hours :D | 14:53 |
| Stskeeps | have fun | 14:53 |
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| * Stskeeps ponders if we should include qt-maemo in mer | 14:56 | |
| wazd | whoa | 14:57 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Well, why _wouldn't_ you? | 14:57 |
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| wazd | I've received an e-mail from guy that wants to participate in Mer project) | 14:57 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 14:57 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: just tell him to get on here i guess :) | 14:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, I hear they need somebody or something to work out their frustrations on. | 14:57 |
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| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: i have occasionally considered getting a punching bag at home | 14:58 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:58 |
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| wazd | His name is Roberto. Damn I'm already jealous :P | 15:00 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: btw, make an account on launchpad and go to https://launchpad.net/~mer-committers and ask to join the team | 15:01 |
| Stskeeps | using 'bzr' you'll be able to correct themes and artwork and so on | 15:02 |
| Stskeeps | or contribute files in your own branches and such | 15:03 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: Oh, his comment was banned as spam in my blog | 15:03 |
| wazd | http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2009/01/12/repos-a-la-mer/#comments | 15:03 |
| wazd | bottom one | 15:03 |
| wazd | oh no, 9th one | 15:04 |
| Stskeeps | guy should definately come on here | 15:04 |
| Stskeeps | so if you reply that back and ask him to look for Stskeeps or johnx, we'll give him the tour :) | 15:06 |
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| khertan_n980 | Hello ... | 15:08 |
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| Stskeeps | 'lo khertan | 15:08 |
| khertan_n980 | Is there a possibility to change the syntax of maemo.org ? | 15:08 |
| khertan_n980 | for the wiki i mean ? | 15:08 |
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| gladiac | Khertan_n810: hi, what do you mean exactly? | 15:10 |
| * wazd 's looking for a knife to kill neighbours from above | 15:10 | |
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| wazd | Some stupid girl's walking on stilletos for 3 hours already without a stop | 15:11 |
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| khertan_n980 | -> http://khertan.net/index.php/post/2009/01/14/Wiki-...-Grrrr-!!!! | 15:11 |
| Andrewfblack | I wonder why the Maemo build of Php5 has stuff like ftp module left out | 15:12 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: a couple of doors down i have a turkish family with a subwoofer and very loud traditional turkish music.. and to the left i have a child which seemingily instead of talking screams all the time.. till 3am in the evening | 15:12 |
| Stskeeps | it ruins my sleep patterns totally | 15:12 |
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| pupnik_ | Stskeeps: if you can, play loud music when THEY sleep | 15:12 |
| pupnik_ | then talk to them about noise | 15:12 |
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| Stskeeps | pupnik_: i have considered once or twice to employ my surround sound, subwoofer, and porn. | 15:13 |
| pupnik_ | excellent | 15:13 |
| khertan_n980 | Stskeeps: i ve used in the past something more usefull | 15:13 |
| Stskeeps | khertan_n980: yeah, i kinda like WYSIWYG wikis | 15:13 |
| gladiac | Khertan_n810: you can create styles | 15:13 |
| Stskeeps | but it's mediawiki syntax which is the most used | 15:13 |
| gladiac | so that the usage is easier for other people | 15:13 |
| khertan_n980 | Stskeeps: doing a surchage on the electric line ... for all the batiment | 15:14 |
| gladiac | but it isn't easy to write it, yes | 15:14 |
| khertan_n980 | ouch ? someone found that things easier ? | 15:14 |
| khertan_n980 | html is easier ! | 15:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, I'm so glad I'm not the top floor. | 15:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | But I swear I can hear one of the neighbors bellow me doing laps sometimes. . . . | 15:15 |
| khertan_n980 | writing a .doc using a hexadecimal file editor is easier ! | 15:15 |
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| Andrewfblack | Khertan_n810 I'm guilty of doing some html tables and suck on wiki, I didn't do that one but I'm a little to lazy to learn a second way of doing something | 15:15 |
| aquatix | khertan_n980: *grin* @ wiki syntax | 15:15 |
| aquatix | it still is less evil than thos TeX tables though :/ | 15:16 |
| aquatix | *those | 15:16 |
| khertan_n980 | aquatix: not sure ... | 15:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | khertan_n980, the tables are really the worst of the mediawiki stuff. | 15:16 |
| khertan_n980 | if there is only that | 15:16 |
| wazd | k, i've replied to im | 15:16 |
| gladiac | I prefer ikiwiki with git :) | 15:17 |
| khertan_n980 | i prefer html ! | 15:17 |
| aquatix | GeneralAntilles: laps? as in `running cirkles in a room'? | 15:17 |
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| aquatix | yeah, plain html | 15:17 |
| aquatix | add a nice stylesheet, done | 15:17 |
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| GeneralAntilles | aquatix, well, not circles, but it sounds like they're running from end end of the room to the other. | 15:17 |
| gladiac | Khertan_n810: you can use only html for ikiwiki | 15:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | stomp, stomp, stomp, stomp, stomp--pause--stomp, stomp, stomp, stomp, stomp | 15:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | khertan_n980, you can use HTML on the wiki. . . . | 15:18 |
| gladiac | maybe it a morse code | 15:18 |
| aquatix | GeneralAntilles: the kids in the home above us do the same sometimes | 15:18 |
| wazd | GeneralAntilles: advise him to go outside :) | 15:18 |
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| GeneralAntilles | wazd, I'd have to knock on several doors to figure out who it is first, though. | 15:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Another one of my neighbors from across the hall was, apparently, spray painting some stuff yesterday. Now the tiles at the end of the hall are covered in overspray. | 15:19 |
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| aquatix | sue the guy for graffiti | 15:19 |
| Stskeeps | sue? drastic :P | 15:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | aquatix, not my property, not my worry. | 15:20 |
| aquatix | or paint it some pretty colour | 15:20 |
| Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: current imager gets network manager right btw | 15:23 |
| khertan_n980 | .GeneralAntilleskhertan_n980, you can use HTML on the wiki. . . . | 15:23 |
| khertan_n980 | how ? | 15:23 |
| khertan_n980 | grrr shit ... i ve added an enhancement request on bugzilla | 15:24 |
| wazd | btw, according to maemo.org GeneralAntilles is twice more adorable than Mer :D | 15:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | khertan_n980, you put HTML in one end and it comes out as formatted text from the other. :P | 15:26 |
| * GeneralAntilles is way adorable. | 15:26 | |
| aquatix | :) | 15:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | khertan_n980, that's enhancement's either WORKSFORME or goes upstream. | 15:27 |
| khertan_n980 | GeneralAntilles: for adding new things maybe ... but for editing something like that : http://khertan.net/public/wiki_editing.PNG ? | 15:27 |
| wazd | Do you need any rescue menu design, General?) | 15:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | khertan_n980, maemo.org isn't in the game of patching up mediawiki. | 15:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | khertan_n980, what's the problem with that? | 15:28 |
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| khertan_n980 | GeneralAntilles: you do not see any problem with that ? | 15:28 |
| khertan_n980 | really ? | 15:28 |
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| Stskeeps | khertan_n980: i guess it's a matter of knowing the syntax | 15:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | khertan_n980, really, I don't see a problem with it. | 15:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Tables | 15:28 |
| Stskeeps | kinda like how i try to learn to speak french, but it's not that easy | 15:28 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 15:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's a nice introduction. | 15:29 |
| aquatix | Stskeeps: i rather speak wikipedian ;) | 15:29 |
| aquatix | i still think that wiki table syntax is more readable than the LaTeX tables | 15:29 |
| Meiz_n810 | Stskeeps: that's something i have been waiting :) thanks. How did you make nm-applet work | 15:30 |
| Meiz_n810 | ? | 15:30 |
| * Stskeeps unpacks yet another mer image | 15:30 | |
| Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: magic | 15:30 |
| aquatix | khertan_n980: but i can see you going wtf on bigger ones indeed | 15:30 |
| khertan_n980 | ok ... so ... but does there is a plugin for wikimedia to have an other syntax ? | 15:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | khertan_n980, a table's syntax is picked when it's created. | 15:30 |
| Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: two things - plugdev, netdev, and nm-applet running before hildon-desktop | 15:30 |
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| Stskeeps | and installing dhcp3-client | 15:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | If you can find a plugin that lets you switch on-the-fly, we'll consider installing it. | 15:31 |
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| Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: and gtk-update-icon-cache -f /usr/share/icons/somewhere | 15:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | But I don't believe such a thing exists. | 15:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | As not all of mediawiki's table functions are implemented in HTML's. | 15:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | khertan_n980, my recommendation, though, is to take 20 minutes and read through their guide to mediawiki tables and be done with it. | 15:31 |
| dneary | GeneralAntilles: Yathink? | 15:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | dneary, I've been on the receiving end of smaller versions of those more than once. It aint fun. :P | 15:33 |
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| Meiz_n810 | Stskeeps: ookay | 15:36 |
| Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: we have a strange problem with backspace killing the X server at the moment though :) | 15:36 |
| aquatix | Stskeeps: some meta keys hanging? | 15:37 |
| Stskeeps | aquatix: n800 | 15:37 |
| aquatix | odd | 15:37 |
| aquatix | i had it on my pc | 15:37 |
| aquatix | alt hanging somehow | 15:37 |
| Stskeeps | then again we don't have nozap or something like that in xorg | 15:37 |
| aquatix | that disables the entire environment :/ | 15:37 |
| Meiz_n810 | so, Xorg dies? does this problem exist with Xomap too? | 15:40 |
| Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: xomap is a totally different can of worms though | 15:40 |
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| Jaffa | N800s for 40 quid. Wowser: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=257492#post257492 | 15:41 |
| Stskeeps | time to stock up? | 15:42 |
| Stskeeps | jesus, that's cheap | 15:43 |
| Stskeeps | just imagine how the market would explode if the price was that low | 15:45 |
| Stskeeps | like, in general | 15:45 |
| pupnik_ | expect to see more fire sales in 2009 | 15:46 |
| * Jaffa wonders about getting one. Absolutely very little use for it. | 15:46 | |
| Jaffa | Actually, I 'spose Alex got have it as his own, instead of sharing Mrs Jaffa's | 15:46 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: new kiddo should have one too | 15:46 |
| Jaffa | He doesn't exactly need the keyboard of the N810 | 15:46 |
| pupnik_ | just make more babies, so you have an excuse to buy more N800s | 15:46 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: I think one between the two of 'em'll do for now | 15:46 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 15:47 |
| Jaffa | pupnik_: he | 15:47 |
| Jaffa | pupnik_: heh | 15:47 |
| Jaffa | Too tired for any baby making ;-) | 15:47 |
| WolfSage | That's like what, $80 USD? Sign me up | 15:47 |
| Jaffa | WolfSage: Less than that now, pound's right dropped. | 15:47 |
| Jaffa | About $58 at today's exchange rate | 15:47 |
| wazd | Well, it's offline only | 15:47 |
| pupnik_ | england has highest foreign debt per capita, around $140,000 | 15:48 |
| wazd | Fell, for 60 bucks I'd get it just to get it :) | 15:48 |
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| wazd | Well* | 15:49 |
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| pupnik_ | http://1.bp.blogspot.com/_5vkPiCEjjdg/SV-RlRa6l9I/AAAAAAAAC6E/_S79g_T1dNg/s1600-h/3.3.jpg lol, economics, sfw | 15:51 |
| * Stskeeps looks at #4001 again and realizes he shouldn't report bugs at 2am at night | 15:51 | |
| Jaffa | Of course, PC World are crap | 15:51 |
| Jaffa | And say "we don't stock any Nokia items" | 15:51 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: while having a editorial on their own page.. | 15:52 |
| WolfSage | Oh it has? | 15:52 |
| WolfSage | Damn, and here I thought the dollar went up | 15:52 |
| * sp3000 wonders why cz's backlog in this channel shrinks | 15:52 | |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: yup | 15:52 |
| Stskeeps | sp3000: hm? | 15:52 |
| * sp3000 has 11 lines now | 15:52 | |
| * sp3000 should have 500 | 15:53 | |
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| * sp3000 shrugs, restarts | 15:56 | |
| Stskeeps | wazd: our current boot progress is [mer-logo splashscreen] [black screen for a second while X loads] [wallpaper for a while when zenity and such loads] [dialog boxes for setting up tablet] [splash screen finishing] [black screen for a while while X + hildon starts, then white screen + icons while hildon finishes up, then wallpaper + hildon] | 15:56 |
| Stskeeps | i'm not 100% sure a blank wallpaper is the best in the 3rd process, so i was thinking about the loading wallpaper there, but it's like it should be "please wait, preparing for first boot" instead or the likes. | 15:57 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: we should make BSOD there, to keep user in tonus xD | 15:58 |
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| Stskeeps | hehehe | 15:58 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 15:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | We need a picture of a cracked tablet screen to put there. | 15:59 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: that would definately be the best watchdog reboot image | 15:59 |
| Stskeeps | that'd throw people into a raging fit | 16:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Little did they know Nokia installed an explosive bolt behind all tablet screens to punish misbehaving users. | 16:01 |
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| Stskeeps | i wonder if it's possible to get rid of the sidebar completely and just replace it with home screen applets | 16:06 |
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| Stskeeps | wazd: http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=257503&postcount=896 <- i know it's XP but it might actually have some merit, if we try and remove the sidebar | 16:07 |
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| Stskeeps | and maybe having a sidebar that can pop out :P | 16:08 |
| Meiz_n810 | Stskeeps: look at marquee-plugins. | 16:08 |
| wazd | What I was thinking of | 16:08 |
| Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: hmm, maybe | 16:08 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: can we get rid TOTALY of the sidebar?) | 16:08 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: possibly | 16:08 |
| Meiz_n810 | Stskeeps: app-menu can be a part of the statusbar | 16:08 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: and I can ask Andrew Olmsted to port Personal Launcher to Mer | 16:08 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mer-committers/m-r/hildon-desktop-layout-alpha/annotate/head%3A/desktop.conf | 16:09 |
| Andrewfblack | Stskeeps What about my XP theme? | 16:09 |
| Stskeeps | Andrewfblack: i just had a revelation about layout stuff regarding it so | 16:09 |
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| Andrewfblack | Stskeeps K, Personally i like the layout that chinesse knock off is using with no sidebar and menu up top | 16:10 |
| Stskeeps | cos of the full title bar in the top | 16:10 |
| Stskeeps | Andrewfblack: yeah, i thought similar | 16:10 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: think personal launcher should be trivial to build | 16:11 |
| Stskeeps | provided it's not python | 16:11 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: So I what I was thinking of to slightly modify it | 16:12 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: to be able to add desktop-alike shortcuts to the homescreen | 16:13 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: I'll ask Andrew if it's possible | 16:13 |
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| Stskeeps | i'll just try to build it first :) | 16:14 |
| Stskeeps | builds after a libtoolize :) | 16:15 |
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| kynde | I'm having trouble getting rid of the "Unable to connect, no file system available" popup when I plug in a USB ethernet adapter. The adapter works fine, but I'd just like to get rid of that message. Any ideas? | 16:18 |
| Stskeeps | hack it? :P think it's part of ke-recv | 16:19 |
| Stskeeps | (which is open source) | 16:19 |
| kynde | So it seems, it's ke_recv that says "usb_mount_check:168: entered" and "launch_fm:2606: couldn't find suitable mount point" | 16:20 |
| kynde | I'm just wondering wether there's a way to let it or hal (as it seems) to know that the usb nics do not have storage capabilities. | 16:21 |
| kynde | I did take a short glance at the ke_recv sources, it might be just that the usb mount check timout is left there when in reality it should have already been cleared out. Not sure about that though, like I said, I only took a glance. | 16:22 |
| wazd | Andrewfblack: you have a typo in the mainmenu of your homepage | 16:23 |
| wazd | Andrewfblack: reMository | 16:23 |
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| Andrewfblack | wazd of andrewblck.com ? | 16:25 |
| andre___ | three cheers for GeneralAntilles sharing my opinion :-P | 16:26 |
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| Andrewfblack | wazd: not really a typo just something I never changed remository is the name of that joomla plugin. Thanks for pointing it out though. | 16:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | andre___, :P | 16:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | andre___, it's the least I can do what with leaving it up to you to RESOLVE all the touchy ones and take the brunt of the reaction. ;) | 16:27 |
| kynde | Stskeeps: so I take it that there's no de facto standard udev/hal configuration change that would remove it? | 16:28 |
| andre___ | hah. sharing the flames? nice :) | 16:28 |
| wazd | I think we should definitely invite Olmsted to Mer party | 16:28 |
| wazd | Since he's a GTK god :) | 16:28 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: The original Moblin/UME versions of Hildon have it configured with no sidebar; might be useful for pointers | 16:32 |
| Andrewfblack | well I'm out of here working on themes to long this morning. | 16:32 |
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| RST38h | A 34-year-old mother who stole her teenage daughter's identity and used it to enroll in high school to pursue her dream of becoming a cheerleader was yesterday committed to three years in a psychiatric unit. | 16:34 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: no shit.. :P | 16:34 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: i kinda think that it will flow naturally eventually | 16:34 |
| Stskeeps | we just need to get to a point where it's easy to work wih | 16:34 |
| Stskeeps | having NetworkManager helps a lot ;) | 16:34 |
| * Jaffa *disagrees* with andre___ and GeneralAntilles | 16:36 | |
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| Stskeeps | heh, what now? ;) | 16:37 |
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| andre___ | Jaffa, hah! add a comment. :) | 16:37 |
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| Stskeeps | oh boy | 16:37 |
| pupnik_ | time is now | 16:37 |
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| Stskeeps | more minutes of web design meetings | 16:37 |
| Stskeeps | am i the only one with hate for the notification thing in the bottom left? | 16:39 |
| Stskeeps | (in hildon-desktop) | 16:40 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, well, I like being notified. | 16:41 |
| r2d2rogers | Stskeeps: I haven't gotten it yet ;)( | 16:41 |
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| r2d2rogers | Stskeeps: thanks for the add on mer-commiters | 16:42 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: i just think it is out of sync with the other top bar notifications, but that's just me.. | 16:42 |
| Stskeeps | i wouldn't mind clicking a smaller icon in the status bar | 16:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, I like how it starts in the top then moves down when new notifications come in. | 16:43 |
| r2d2rogers | Stskeeps: would there be any objection to changing the usbnet rescue script to remove the "read foo" lines ? | 16:43 |
| wazd | So, since homescreen widgets have z-index | 16:43 |
| wazd | we can bind PL to the bottom | 16:43 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: i never saw that happen really | 16:43 |
| Stskeeps | r2d2rogers: go ahead, lemme just give you access to builder and such too | 16:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, try IMing yourself with FBReader in fullscreen. | 16:44 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: mm, i actually don't use IM on the tablet, heh | 16:44 |
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| Stskeeps | r2d2rogers: r2d2rogers on jaiku? | 16:46 |
| r2d2rogers | yup | 16:46 |
| r2d2rogers | identi.ca and twitter also | 16:46 |
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| Stskeeps | r2d2rogers: added to builder, use #merbuilder on jaiku, build sourcepackage=packageversion | 16:47 |
| r2d2rogers | Stskeeps: thanks' | 16:48 |
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| Stskeeps | bzr export lp-path packagename; cd packagename; dpkg-buildpackage -S -us -uc; upload .tar.gz, .dsc, .changes to trac.tspre.org:~/incoming , ssh trac.tspre.org /import-new-changes, and then build on jaiku | 16:48 |
| * r2d2rogers takes notes | 16:49 | |
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| wazd | so what I want to do is this: http://i064.radikal.ru/0901/32/19818bec82b9.jpg | 16:55 |
| aquatix | hm, that looks nice | 16:56 |
| aquatix | wazd: those are `desktop icons'? | 16:56 |
| wazd | And the other thing is to move task navigator to the top, instead of title | 16:56 |
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| wazd | aquatix: sorta | 16:56 |
| aquatix | and the `mer' logo is a button pulling up the main menu? | 16:57 |
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| lcuk | can you move the start button to the botto mand add a trashcan? | 16:57 |
| aquatix | yeah | 16:57 |
| aquatix | trash can in the lower right | 16:57 |
| aquatix | and a clock beneath it | 16:57 |
| lcuk | not too close to the clock though | 16:57 |
| aquatix | exactly | 16:58 |
| lcuk | we also need room for a norton antivirus icon | 16:58 |
| wazd | lcuk: :) | 16:58 |
| aquatix | you take the words out of my mouth | 16:58 |
| aquatix | so to say | 16:58 |
| wazd | bottom orientation is bad | 16:58 |
| wazd | since there are app controls | 16:58 |
| aquatix | and maybe a dedicated reset button | 16:58 |
| lcuk | start/accessories/reset | 16:59 |
| lcuk | or is it in control panel? | 16:59 |
| wazd | I'm serious! >:( | 16:59 |
| lcuk | wazd, i agree sorta with that, since things like the keyboard controls come up | 16:59 |
| wazd | :P | 16:59 |
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| lcuk | so are we | 16:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | A bunch of random ass Excel files would look good, too. | 16:59 |
| lcuk | make the font for the desktop icons just a bit to big and add copious amounts of ... even though the name would fit | 17:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | We need crappier text rendering, too. | 17:00 |
| lcuk | ahhh well you just have to use liqbase for that | 17:01 |
| wazd | so you don't like the "desktop" concept?) | 17:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | More seriously, I'm not sure we should start diverging from the current layout until we know more about Nokia's plans for Fremantle. | 17:01 |
| lcuk | we do, but the desktop area is for whatever applets the user chooses | 17:01 |
| lcuk | some might decide they want a desktop | 17:01 |
| lcuk | others wont | 17:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yet another disparate mobile UI isn't all that helpful. | 17:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | But I guess some options for desktop layouts wouldn't hurt. | 17:02 |
| lcuk | i have to agree in principle with gen, same as when i started throwing ideas together, we want stability first, then go for expansion | 17:02 |
| wazd | Aw, i've forgot to tell last thing | 17:02 |
| wazd | Personal Launcher is on the bottom, widgets are still there | 17:03 |
| lcuk | dont tell me, you've ported clippy? | 17:03 |
| wazd | In my brain it's pretty doable) | 17:03 |
| lcuk | my desktop is just a picture with a single small clock | 17:03 |
| wazd | I don't know if it's in fact possible | 17:03 |
| lcuk | i dont want to accidentally click on apps | 17:03 |
| lcuk | for me, having a menu opening up with selection is great, the desktop area is effectively information only | 17:04 |
| * lcuk hates catching clock and having it come up | 17:04 | |
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| lcuk | anywya, bbl | 17:05 |
| wazd | and i want one big button since i'm pressing with my feet :D | 17:05 |
| aquatix | wazd: i like your concept | 17:08 |
| aquatix | with the bar at the top | 17:08 |
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| aquatix | but what about a taskbar-like widget? | 17:08 |
| aquatix | or is that going to be up there too? | 17:08 |
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| roope | afaik beta sdk will then reveal the fremantle ui framework and layout also. so that's pretty soon. | 17:14 |
| StsN800 | roope, hehe, it'll interesting to see for sure - we're mostly working on making non- | 17:16 |
| * RST38h likes wazd's layout | 17:16 | |
| RST38h | The only question is how it will live with hildonized apps | 17:17 |
| StsN800 | clutter ui atm so we can support the older tablets | 17:17 |
| wazd | http://i029.radikal.ru/0901/83/01afa301597e.png | 17:18 |
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| wazd | thats what i mean | 17:18 |
| StsN800 | looks possible | 17:19 |
| wazd | all hildon stuff is still there, sust rearranged | 17:20 |
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| wazd | just* | 17:20 |
| RST38h | wazd: So even although the frame is not shown it is there? | 17:20 |
| RST38h | Sounds fine with me | 17:20 |
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| StsN800 | someone should make a hildon-desktop layout maker.. | 17:24 |
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| StsN800 | qwerty12, sign up for mer-committers on launchpad btw | 17:26 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, hmm, I'm not much of a scm fan (way too lazy) | 17:26 |
| mgedmin | scms rule | 17:26 |
| qwerty12 | *StsN800 | 17:26 |
| mgedmin | drink the kool-aid | 17:26 |
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| Jaffa | roope: we've not had the *alpha* SDK yet ;-/ | 17:32 |
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| wazd | I don't think that Fremantle UI will be revealed before release | 17:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, you don't have to think. :) | 17:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | It'll be revealed with the beta release in April/May | 17:34 |
| lardman | and the hw too hopefully ;) | 17:34 |
| wazd | 2 possibilities: there is nothing to show or there is something uber cool | 17:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, there's plenty to show. | 17:34 |
| wazd | Then RS-51 would be released April :) | 17:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | But they've chosen to wait because of the ill reception incomplete UIs usually face. | 17:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_roadmap/Fremantle | 17:35 |
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| RST38h | wazd: Third possibility: there is midly amusing next device which is already in prototype stage and fremantle devs have the prototypes but they can't show those to anyone | 17:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | I wonder if the momentum has just completely dropped out of http://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Stars | 17:35 |
| RST38h | wazd: In fact, the existence of rx-51 prototypes has been confirmed by the mothership representatives | 17:36 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Almost release-quality according to the comments that were removed from itT. | 17:36 |
| * qwerty12 rolls eyes at "Will need at least one book included, and preferably a link to where to download more. " | 17:36 | |
| wazd | If I were Nokia, I'd release supercool UI with hardware to make maximum hype :) | 17:37 |
| *** k-s is now known as k-s[AWAY] | 17:38 | |
| RST38h | wazd: they will, just not right away | 17:38 |
| RST38h | But it will probably disappoint at least 50% of the community, just like it is used to | 17:38 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: Quim said discussion is still going on behind closed doors, or at least I think he did | 17:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Discussion about? | 17:39 |
| lardman | Stars | 17:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, but that was, what, a month ago, right? | 17:40 |
| lardman | yeah, I guess so | 17:41 |
| lardman | perhaps they;ve given up on us ;) | 17:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 17:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | I guess you really need the beta SDK to do real Fremantle-oriented work. | 17:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | But there's plenty of non-UI stuff to be tackled in the meantime, though. . . . | 17:41 |
| RST38h | General: Need a real device | 17:41 |
| lcuk | wazd, you can no quicker magic up a finiahed on schedule ui than nokia can ;) | 17:41 |
| lardman | yeah, though polishing up some apps is certainly doable | 17:41 |
| lardman | hw will increase the excitement for sure | 17:41 |
| * lcuk uses a feather duster on lardmans baldspot | 17:41 | |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, hardly. | 17:42 |
| lardman | :p | 17:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | For marketing, maybe. | 17:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | But certainly not for coding. | 17:42 |
| lcuk | RST38h, theres been real omap3 devices around for months already :: movial have videos on youtube showing clear as day tablet form factor omap3 stuff | 17:43 |
| lcuk | "fierce" internet experience ;) | 17:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | More than a year, even. | 17:43 |
| lardman | yeah, but that's not really relevant, most apps could be written with no hw, just knowing the capabilities | 17:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | ^ | 17:44 |
| lardman | though knowing some more about the connectivity infrastructure would be useful for always-on type apps | 17:44 |
| lcuk | lardman, look around - all the people doing that are going "ummm its crap we need to optimize" | 17:44 |
| lcuk | for any platform | 17:44 |
| lardman | certainly, but you write some code before you optimise it ;) | 17:45 |
| lcuk | qt, saviour of the world :: has extensive core problems with speed - its great having a big fast desktop running things smoothly but it doesnt scale backwards | 17:45 |
| lardman | sod Qt | 17:45 |
| aquatix | lardman: hm, i always start with optimising | 17:45 |
| aquatix | lardman: contemplating my plans while drinking some coffee | 17:45 |
| lardman | aquatix: well you have very large working memory then | 17:45 |
| roope | my feeling is that people will be fairly impressed, providing things go well :). | 17:45 |
| lcuk | lardman, you start by not driving a JCB into the sandpit | 17:45 |
| suihkulokki | lcuk: are you asserting that GTK was lightweight and designed for embedded? :P | 17:45 |
| lcuk | suihkulokki, hahaha no :| | 17:46 |
| lcuk | i am using qt because thats where all the optimization work appears to be | 17:46 |
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| lardman | but still, that doens't stop people writing apps, they might be slower than ideal, but they will run | 17:46 |
| lardman | red herring | 17:46 |
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| GeneralAntilles | ^ | 17:47 |
| roope | i've been taking quite a lot flak on internettablettalk about my hw key related comments. :) | 17:47 |
| lcuk | lardman, not saying its not, but do you think the iphone would have done as well if users had to wait? | 17:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | roope, you do have a way of saying things that cut right to people's worst fears. <_< | 17:48 |
| lardman | lcuk: people will always write apps for commercial platforms | 17:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | The trend with the tablets so far has been to crappier and crappier hardware keys, so combine that with certain comments and BOOM | 17:49 |
| wazd | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FuVwh_VrIxk | 17:49 |
| wazd | nice Beagleboard demo | 17:49 |
| lardman | lcuk: but again, we will eventually have hw, it's just people saying that we can't do anything yet because we don't have it that I disagree with to a large extent | 17:49 |
| * lardman prays that it has a kb | 17:50 | |
| * GeneralAntilles agrees with lardman again. :P | 17:50 | |
| GeneralAntilles | About the people saying | 17:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not necessarily about the hw keyboard | 17:50 |
| lcuk | ok lardman :) thats certainly reasonable | 17:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | since a crappy keyboard like the N810 has is worse than a virtual keyboard for my use. | 17:51 |
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| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, but having the whole screen for content is better for many people no matter how crap the keybooard | 17:51 |
| lardman | hmm, I prefer the n810 kb to the n800 onscreen job | 17:52 |
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| zeld | hito all | 17:52 |
| lcuk | i didnt even consider the n800 to be a computer :$ | 17:52 |
| zeld | can i install maemo on my nokia e51? | 17:52 |
| lcuk | it was a pda | 17:53 |
| zeld | is there a nokia hw supported by e51? | 17:53 |
| zeld | oos | 17:53 |
| johnx | re! | 17:53 |
| zeld | ops not by e51 but by maemo :) | 17:53 |
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| zeld | there is a list of nokia hw supported by maemo? | 17:54 |
| johnx | here's the list: n800 and n810 | 17:54 |
| qwerty12 | 770 :) | 17:54 |
| johnx | the 770 is supported by a past version of maemo | 17:54 |
| qwerty12 | Meh, N800 & N810's maemo will be in the past too | 17:54 |
| johnx | qwerty12, shaddup! I'm workin' on it! | 17:54 |
| johnx | :P | 17:54 |
| qwerty12 | johnx, hehe, sorry! :P | 17:54 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: i still think we should hack mer to run on top of a n96 ;) | 17:55 |
| johnx | no problem, just all the doom n' gloom gets to me :P | 17:55 |
| johnx | I vote for qwerty12 to work on getting the kernel booting | 17:55 |
| johnx | heh...actually it would sooner run on the openmoko thing... | 17:55 |
| * johnx had an interesting idea | 17:56 | |
| Stskeeps | out-compete openmoko on their own field? | 17:56 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:56 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, and get a maemo-based phone out before Nokia | 17:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, that's silly. | 17:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, you just don't know how to use the virtual input very well. | 17:56 |
| lcuk | of course it was silly, but it looked like one | 17:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx is going to take over the world with Maemo. | 17:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | It'll be his SkyNet | 17:57 |
| lcuk | as long as we can play on wii | 17:57 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: yes, that would be sortof humourous ;) | 17:58 |
| lcuk | johnx, shouldnt we just boot it on the actual openmoko hardware? | 17:58 |
| aquatix | johnx: that'd be cool | 17:58 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: scaringily enough i think many pieces are there to support dialing though :P | 17:58 |
| lcuk | we can include a 2600whistle on a lanyard :D | 17:58 |
| johnx | I need to put up a screenshot of what 640x480 looks like | 17:59 |
| Stskeeps | yes, you do | 17:59 |
| johnx | just a couple more pixel values to tweak and it'll look almost right | 17:59 |
| johnx | I'll put up a screenie now though, then another later | 17:59 |
| aquatix | :) | 17:59 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: freerunner does actually look capable | 18:00 |
| johnx | yup | 18:00 |
| Stskeeps | samsung 2442 soc, 400mhz, 128mb sdram, 256mb nand flash | 18:00 |
| johnx | and the requisite framebuffer stupidity too | 18:00 |
| johnx | just like zaurus cxx00 and n8x0 | 18:00 |
| Stskeeps | what arm version is it? if any | 18:01 |
| johnx | dur...maybe an arm9? | 18:01 |
| Stskeeps | arm920t | 18:01 |
| zeld | only this type of nokia? | 18:01 |
| zeld | :( | 18:01 |
| lardman | lcuk: http://hackaday.com/2009/01/13/multitouch-patched-into-android/ | 18:01 |
| Stskeeps | bloody hell, armv4 | 18:01 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, armv4t IIRC. huuuge difference as far as support | 18:01 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, but we do armv5t :P | 18:02 |
| johnx | zeld, maemo runs on linux. if there is no linux port for that phone maemo can't run | 18:02 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, are we tied to anything really ubuntu-specific? | 18:02 |
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| Stskeeps | mm. | 18:03 |
| Stskeeps | rcS.d order maybe | 18:03 |
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| Stskeeps | also i think most of our packages are armv5 | 18:03 |
| Stskeeps | it isn't impossible, if that's what you're asking :) | 18:04 |
| johnx | I suppose. but we can drop a lot of our init scripts on a more standard platform | 18:04 |
| Stskeeps | maybe then i can get Mer on my ipaq 3630 .. ;P | 18:04 |
| johnx | 640x480? | 18:04 |
| Stskeeps | true, smaller | 18:04 |
| lcuk | lardman, i saw it yesterday, its from the synapse touchpad code i believe | 18:04 |
| johnx | lots of apps I can't picture running on a 320x240 screen | 18:04 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, get it on the loox instead :P | 18:04 |
| * lcuk had a loox | 18:05 | |
| johnx | of course people will probably be doing up 480x800 layouts for their apps for maemo 5... :) | 18:05 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: yeah, more reasonable | 18:05 |
| qwerty12 | Someone did have Linux running on the 720 but it hard resetted the tablet and went back to winmo when you rebooted it | 18:06 |
| zeld | understood johnx | 18:06 |
| zeld | but... nokia e51 work with symbian OS | 18:06 |
| zeld | symbian is not a linux derived OS? | 18:06 |
| Stskeeps | correct | 18:06 |
| lcuk | johnx, technically does pixels matter - i thought aspect ratio was MUCH more important | 18:07 |
| Stskeeps | also, just because it runs linux, doesnt mean you can replace it :) | 18:07 |
| lcuk | especially if you wanna run things on HIGHER than defined - ie desktop/laptops have 1024/768 etc but you might still want fullscreen | 18:07 |
| johnx | lcuk, run some maemo apps in a xephyr window dialed to 320x240 :) | 18:07 |
| aquatix | zeld: symbian is an independent OS | 18:07 |
| aquatix | formerly known as EPOC | 18:07 |
| Stskeeps | though i wonder why noone did a bootloader from-within symbian thing or whatever | 18:08 |
| lcuk | johnx, i suppose :) just getting used to resolution freedom in lb :) | 18:08 |
| * lcuk runs things in 256*224 without caring | 18:08 | |
| johnx | lcuk, not everyone is as enlightened as you. actually you can see which apps play nice just by turning on rotation support :) | 18:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, you're not using bitmapped themes. | 18:08 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, gaah. don't remind me about the art I'd need to redo for a real VGA layout :/ | 18:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | :P | 18:09 |
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| lcuk | yeah johnx agreed entirely, heads in about a zillion places ill just sit back for a while :) | 18:10 |
| johnx | lcuk, I mean a lot of apps might actually work ok, but I think things like toolbars are going to have issues once they get much below 720 horizontal | 18:10 |
| johnx | lcuk, and I do appreciate being poked at to defend what I'm saying :) keeps me from making assumptions | 18:11 |
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| zeld | aquatix: thnx for clarification :) | 18:13 |
| aquatix | zeld: you're welcome :) | 18:13 |
| zeld | :) | 18:13 |
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| TheFatal | any1 had test the mana world on N810 ?? | 18:19 |
| khertan_n980 | i'm back ... | 18:20 |
| khertan_n980 | for ten minutes | 18:20 |
| qwerty12 | khertan_n980, psst, how did you get your hands on the new tablet? | 18:21 |
| Stskeeps | n980? ;) | 18:22 |
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| khertan_n980 | Stskeeps: yep ... a n980 | 18:27 |
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| khertan_n980 | the pc i use to do http tunneling ... to be honest it s a NCD NC900 N980 - RM5231 165 Mhz | 18:28 |
| khertan_n980 | slower than the nit :) | 18:28 |
| johnx | an honest to god XTerminal? | 18:30 |
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| Stskeeps | parents evening? the thing where they drag in your parents to school for a talk about how you are doing as a pupil? | 18:42 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:42 |
| johnx | ouch. qwerty12's in trouble | 18:43 |
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| lcuk | qwertys parents: "You have done badly in school, you are ungrounded for a week. i demand you go straight to the park and play with your friends immediately" | 18:45 |
| khertan_n980 | ouch tablet freezed ! | 18:45 |
| khertan_n980 | just by removing usb cable | 18:45 |
| khertan_n980 | ssh say .... : metalayer-crawler ... | 18:46 |
| khertan_n980 | again :) | 18:46 |
| khertan_n980 | pfff | 18:46 |
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| TheFatal | htop works fine in N 810 | 18:46 |
| TheFatal | :) | 18:46 |
| TheFatal | now i'm trying the mana world | 18:46 |
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| khertan_n980 | [IMG]http://khertan.net/poubelle/screenshot113.png[/IMG] | 18:50 |
| khertan_n980 | [IMG]http://khertan.net/poubelle/screenshot115.png[/IMG] | 18:50 |
| khertan_n980 | [IMG]http://khertan.net/poubelle/screenshot116.png[/IMG] | 18:50 |
| khertan_n980 | :) | 18:50 |
| TheFatal | error 404 | 18:51 |
| TheFatal | :S | 18:51 |
| johnx | ah, right. i was supposed to take some screenies | 18:51 |
| AStorm | drop the pointless img tags | 18:51 |
| johnx | got distracted by food | 18:51 |
| AStorm | :) | 18:51 |
| TheFatal | xD | 18:51 |
| TheFatal | mNotes... | 18:52 |
| TheFatal | tezst xD | 18:52 |
| Stskeeps | study shows high caffeine intake can cause visual and auditory hallucinations, as well as making people think that others are "out to get them" | 18:52 |
| Stskeeps | well that explains a lot | 18:52 |
| TheFatal | jajajaja | 18:52 |
| * GAN800 plots against Stskeeps. | 18:52 | |
| johnx | Stskeeps, nah, caffeine just shows you the truth, man. gotta watch out | 18:53 |
| khertan_n980 | 404 ? | 18:53 |
| johnx | Khertan_n810, he pasted the whole link with img tags | 18:53 |
| TheFatal | khertan_n980: delete [/IMG] | 18:53 |
| khertan_n980 | ah yes ... stupid mibbit ! | 18:53 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: it certainly explains some people on iTT | 18:53 |
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| AStorm | Stskeeps: high as in very | 18:54 |
| TheFatal | xD | 18:54 |
| Stskeeps | AStorm: 3 cups seems to be enough | 18:54 |
| AStorm | not if you're accustomed | 18:54 |
| Stskeeps | true | 18:54 |
| TheFatal | N810 have armel o arm ?? | 18:54 |
| AStorm | armel | 18:54 |
| AStorm | (little-endian) | 18:54 |
| TheFatal | thnks | 18:54 |
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| TheFatal | http://www.gadgetryblog.com/gadgetryblog/2005/05/western_digital.html cool gadget :P | 18:55 |
| AStorm | the domain is parked | 18:55 |
| AStorm | ;P | 18:55 |
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| TheFatal | :O | 18:55 |
| TheFatal | true | 18:55 |
| TheFatal | let me see | 18:56 |
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| * TheFatal is searching for a cool gadget | 18:57 | |
| TheFatal | :P | 18:57 |
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| khertan_n980 | bye | 18:59 |
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| Stskeeps | evening konttori :) | 19:01 |
| AStorm | TheFatal: what about a portable fridge? | 19:01 |
| AStorm | cool enough? | 19:01 |
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| johnx | http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/JohnX/mer-vga.jpg | 19:03 |
| TheFatal | xD | 19:03 |
| TheFatal | i'm searching for a watch how no need energy | 19:03 |
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| AStorm | w00t | 19:04 |
| AStorm | a menu | 19:04 |
| TheFatal | use water to show the time, using the "electrons" | 19:04 |
| TheFatal | electrones in spanish | 19:04 |
| TheFatal | :P | 19:04 |
| konttori | Stskeeps: evening | 19:05 |
| Stskeeps | AStorm: hehehe :> | 19:06 |
| TheFatal | forget it | 19:06 |
| Stskeeps | er | 19:06 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: woo :) | 19:06 |
| konttori | good news on the qt licensing today | 19:06 |
| wazd | hey there Konttori | 19:06 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: how about hildon-desktop? any changes? | 19:06 |
| AStorm | Stskeeps: care to hack the gtk to autohildonize menus? | 19:06 |
| johnx | konttori, yup, saw the news. That should make quite a few things simpler | 19:07 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, nope, just conf files and a new theme | 19:07 |
| Stskeeps | k | 19:07 |
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| Stskeeps | so it looks screwed up? | 19:07 |
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| * r2d2rogers wonders how well a usb keyboard would work for Mer | 19:07 | |
| r2d2rogers | ... I can't type into the first boot wizard... | 19:08 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, you mean right now? well that is hildon-deskop, but without the left panel. the status area is there | 19:08 |
| Stskeeps | a | 19:08 |
| Stskeeps | h | 19:08 |
| Stskeeps | r2d2rogers: ah. sapwood. | 19:08 |
| johnx | and yeah, I still have a little tweakign to do as you can see. things still aren't lining up quite right | 19:09 |
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| Stskeeps | r2d2rogers: don't kill your 770 with powering the usb through a self made usb power supply hack | 19:09 |
| johnx | probably need to start from scratch and make a nice big equation for everything | 19:09 |
| r2d2rogers | Stskeeps: yup prolly, but it even locks up the telnet session now too | 19:09 |
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| Stskeeps | r2d2rogers: i'm still really puzzled what the problem is with sapwood on 770 :/ | 19:19 |
| r2d2rogers | why doesn't the same thing happen under n8x0s? | 19:20 |
| r2d2rogers | that's about the only angle I can think off | 19:21 |
| r2d2rogers | is it useful to look at the kernel?? | 19:21 |
| johnx | r2d2rogers, you mean sapwood? it seems to be architecture dependent | 19:21 |
| r2d2rogers | I need to dig into just what the 770 processor is I guess, | 19:22 |
| johnx | r2d2rogers, do you have a gregale (os2006) scratchbox install? | 19:23 |
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| johnx | hmm, though not that it would help to link it against an old gtk | 19:23 |
| johnx | nevermind | 19:23 |
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| r2d2rogers | johnx: I don't ahve any scratch box setup at the moment.... | 19:24 |
| r2d2rogers | Stskeeps: looks like the lockout on telnet isn't sapwood, unless it's started from something other than start-hildon now | 19:28 |
| Stskeeps | m | 19:30 |
| Stskeeps | m | 19:30 |
| Stskeeps | jott: Fixes: NB#93075 - Update icon size constants to Fremantle | 19:31 |
| Stskeeps | err | 19:31 |
| Stskeeps | johnx | 19:31 |
| johnx | what is that from? | 19:31 |
| Stskeeps | gtk+ | 19:31 |
| Stskeeps | re icon problem | 19:31 |
| johnx | ah, so maybe it's just that we're playing with versions of stuff never really meant to go together? | 19:32 |
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| infobot | Sargun: Have you had your vi today? | 19:33 |
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| Sargun | ~onjoin #maemo Sargun | 19:44 |
| Sargun | ~onjoin -Sargun | 19:44 |
| infobot | ok, Sargun | 19:44 |
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| infobot | Sargun: Have you had your vi today? | 19:44 |
| johnx | :) | 19:44 |
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| r2d2rogers | Stskeeps, johnx: found the other sapwood reference in the first-boot-wizard and removed it, now I see the "Please type your full name.", the OK and cancel, and the blinking cursor. | 19:50 |
| Stskeeps | alrigh | 19:50 |
| Stskeeps | t | 19:50 |
| Stskeeps | we should probably if [ -x /platform-dislikes-sapwood ] or somehing.. | 19:50 |
| r2d2rogers | yeah, for the moment... | 19:50 |
| r2d2rogers | sadly I don't get the hildon input method popping up | 19:51 |
| Stskeeps | it worked without sapwood or? | 19:51 |
| Stskeeps | you can probably "just" dpkg --remove first-boot-wizard | 19:52 |
| r2d2rogers | it worked before I got the first boot on the imager run I did last night | 19:52 |
| r2d2rogers | k | 19:52 |
| r2d2rogers | will try | 19:52 |
| r2d2rogers | I don't know why the usbnet stops responding... | 19:52 |
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| wazd | http://s56.radikal.ru/i152/0901/d2/c937086a5f7a.png - Real-life Mer UI :) | 20:22 |
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| mrp | hello | 20:23 |
| wazd | hey | 20:23 |
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| johnx | wazd!! | 20:24 |
| johnx | honestly? that's actually running? | 20:24 |
| mrp | what is working on 770 Mer? | 20:24 |
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| wazd | johnx: nope :P | 20:24 |
| johnx | wazd, :P | 20:25 |
| wazd | johnx: but looks cool anyway :D | 20:25 |
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| johnx | wazd, might not be impossible even with our current software base really... | 20:25 |
| johnx | mrp, it boots, but there are issues with the theme engine | 20:26 |
| RST38h | wazd: cool, is it for real? | 20:26 |
| RST38h | wazd: and if it is, I think you still need to do something about close/minimize icons ;) | 20:26 |
| wazd | RST38h: nah, just a mockup of course :) To illustrate how it will look in real life :) | 20:27 |
| wazd | RST38h: First of all I need to do something with your icons since they are next in my to-do list :) | 20:28 |
| johnx | wazd, so what icon drops down the menu? | 20:28 |
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| wazd | johnx: mer | 20:28 |
| RST38h | thanks =) | 20:28 |
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| mrp | 770 being my only IT (daily used) not yet suitable for my testing then? | 20:28 |
| johnx | mrp, if you're planning to help it's a good time to start I think, but if you expect something that you can use, then not yet | 20:29 |
| Stskeeps | mrp: what kind of skills do you have? ARM assembly and debugging could come in very handy atm :> | 20:30 |
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| johnx | mrp, keep in mind that only one person related to the mer project actually has a 770 so if other people don't step up to help, then it might not anywhere very fast | 20:30 |
| wazd | mrp: Mer now is not ready for daily using so you have to wait :) | 20:30 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: i suspect we can use marquee-plugins to pull off something like wazd's stuff | 20:31 |
| Stskeeps | they're ubuntu desktop stuff | 20:31 |
| johnx | yeah, I had a bit of a headache last time I tried, but I might give it another shot later | 20:32 |
| mrp | Stskeeps, ARM assembly- you lost me already :( | 20:32 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: why do we need ubuntu's desktop when we have Personal Launcher?) | 20:32 |
| johnx | wazd, ubuntu mobile is maemo based and has the launcher you need to setup the layout you just mocked up :) | 20:33 |
| wazd | johnx: aw, ok) | 20:33 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: looks like a hildon plugin really | 20:34 |
| Stskeeps | h-d | 20:34 |
| johnx | is it a task navigator? | 20:34 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 20:34 |
| Stskeeps | well one amongst others | 20:34 |
| Stskeeps | derived from task navigator item | 20:34 |
| Stskeeps | try read the README of the src | 20:34 |
| johnx | ah, right | 20:34 |
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| Stskeeps | wazd: i think that mer mockup deserves a blog post though ;) | 20:37 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: i see they didn't take away your tablet yet | 20:40 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps, give it time... :D | 20:40 |
| mrp | exit | 20:40 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: the only thing this mockup lacks is "detailed" task switcher | 20:41 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | mnotes pushed in extras-devel ... :) | 20:41 |
| johnx | Khertan_n810, it's python, right? | 20:42 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | the things is : it s only a mockup | 20:42 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | johnx: right | 20:42 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: maybe you can abuse the >> where things overflow into | 20:42 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | arg ! i ve forgotten a dependancy ! | 20:42 |
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| Khertan_n810_78 | hum ... own record owned : load averge 5.67 | 20:47 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: wtw, is notification message place hackable? | 20:49 |
| wazd | like "loading" and stuff | 20:49 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | i ve tryed to use adblock to remove this ad which slow down the device ... but using it on a nit slow down more than displaying ad | 20:50 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: right now it covers the scrollbar which is superannoying | 20:50 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | huhu | 20:50 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: top right or bottom left one? | 20:50 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Khertan_n810_78, css & hosts | 20:50 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: top-right | 20:50 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: well. everything is hackable. but how much of it is themeable is a different story | 20:51 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | qwerty : yep but i need to do it myself | 20:51 |
| r2d2rogers | Stskeeps: ahha network applet messing up the usbnet I bet | 20:52 |
| johnx | Khertan_n810, I just got rid of flash entirely :) | 20:52 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | i ve disable it too | 20:53 |
| Stskeeps | r2d2rogers: entirely possible yes | 20:53 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | but mibbit eat many ressources | 20:53 |
| Stskeeps | r2d2rogers: i'll put interfaces in 770 too | 20:53 |
| johnx | Khertan_n810, aaah, right, and you need to use mibbit to get around your ISP's firewall right? | 20:54 |
| r2d2rogers | k, I'm using the flash maemo to do some tinkering, but I've tacking down odd reboots, suspect metalayer crawler... | 20:54 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | right | 20:54 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | my phone data plan suck | 20:54 |
| johnx | Khertan_n810_78, you can't run a proxy server or something on your desktop at home? or on another server somewhere? | 20:55 |
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| Khertan_n810_78 | johnx i could ... | 20:57 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | but i ven t found the time to configure ikt yet | 20:57 |
| johnx | Khertan_n810, sounds better than web-based IRC :) | 20:57 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | i should set sshd on port 80 ... :) | 20:57 |
| johnx | another good plan :) | 20:58 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | on my home computer | 20:58 |
| johnx | do they block https? | 20:58 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | just need to found how with ubuntu is the setting | 20:58 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | johnx: sometimes | 20:58 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | not always | 20:58 |
| johnx | gah | 20:58 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | yeah this suck | 20:58 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | but it s unlimited :) | 20:59 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | i like how all isp se this word | 20:59 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | great lie ! | 20:59 |
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| johnx | well, an unlimited plan here is too expensive so I don't have any "real" web access on the train :P | 20:59 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Khertan_n810_78, to change sshd port, edit Port line in /etc/ssh/sshd_config | 20:59 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | thx | 21:00 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | johnx: real unlimited plan is expensive too ere | 21:00 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | here | 21:00 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | by real i mean with full access not only port 80 | 21:00 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | but i fear that the sshd 80 port will be blocked too | 21:01 |
| johnx | ah, well. I think my plan has full access but I get about 10MB "free" then it's pay-per-KB | 21:01 |
| r2d2rogers | reboots seem to have been out of memory erros again | 21:01 |
| r2d2rogers | on the maemo side | 21:01 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | as for accessing web page i need to set the user agent to a mobile | 21:01 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | like 'nokian95' | 21:01 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | r2d2rogers, do you ever feel like smashing your 770 out of frustration? :) | 21:02 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | i pay 18Euro for one hour of voice call + 9Euros for this unlimited plan | 21:02 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | for a real ulimited plan it s 69Euros | 21:02 |
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| r2d2rogers | qwerty12_N800: well, you should see the metal cover ..... | 21:02 |
| r2d2rogers | ;) | 21:02 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | or 1Euros by Mb | 21:02 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hehe | 21:02 |
| qwerty12_N800 | the dpad area on my N800 is kinda funky. let's just say that I'm able to see more of the led when it glows... | 21:03 |
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| r2d2rogers | qwerty12_N800: I can imagine, I ahve rubbed off the power symbol on my work laptop's power button... | 21:04 |
| r2d2rogers | nope | 21:04 |
| r2d2rogers | just rebooted again | 21:04 |
| r2d2rogers | wonder what's havingthe fit | 21:04 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | i think there is a proxy as making a rezquest without user agent result in : '403' | 21:05 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | can t do ping too | 21:05 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | maybe i should try tunneling by dns port | 21:05 |
| johnx | Khertan_n810, that's really slow | 21:06 |
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| Khertan_n810_78 | yep this could be a problem | 21:07 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | but if there is a proxy scanning user agent i doubt a ssh connection by port 80 will be a succes | 21:07 |
| r2d2rogers | Stskeeps: I found an interface file in the /etc/network directory, it was setup for the host/PC side of the connection | 21:08 |
| Stskeeps | hmm. | 21:08 |
| r2d2rogers | corrected and trying again | 21:08 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | how can i set the ssh password of rsync by ssh without letting a daemon running all tghe time | 21:09 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | or add a rsa key auth | 21:09 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | i don t found any solution | 21:09 |
| Stskeeps | add a rsa key auth, it's easy | 21:10 |
| Stskeeps | and doesnt require a daemon | 21:10 |
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| Stskeeps | if you are ok with not password protecting the private key | 21:10 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:10 |
| r2d2rogers | stsstserwedsfrwdfs | 21:11 |
| Stskeeps | o_O | 21:12 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | yep this is the problem | 21:12 |
| r2d2rogers | netwrok lag due to my incompetance | 21:12 |
| r2d2rogers | edited my PC's /etc/network/interfaces | 21:13 |
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| Khertan_n810_78 | i prefer to have an unsecure connection ... using ftp than a private without pass | 21:14 |
| Khertan_n810_78 | as i can crypt the data before transfering it | 21:14 |
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| Stskeeps | Khertan_n810_78: then only way to do it is through an ssh agent :P | 21:14 |
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| Khertan_n810_78 | train is going underground ... so no more connection... bye | 21:15 |
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| Khertan_n810_78 | and thx for tips | 21:16 |
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| RST38h | back | 21:17 |
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| Stskeeps | wb | 21:18 |
| r2d2rogers | Stskeeps: on doing it correctly, the interface file keeps the usbnet working very well | 21:20 |
| Stskeeps | goo | 21:20 |
| Stskeeps | d | 21:20 |
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| Stskeeps | you know, with the internet and all, i'm surprised the social media isn't swarming with the typical "bush is going to declare martial law before he leaves office" or the likes | 21:21 |
| Stskeeps | did they already round up all the conspiracy theorists? ;) | 21:21 |
| r2d2rogers | but I don't get any touch screen respnse..... | 21:21 |
| Stskeeps | r2d2rogers: i've pushed imager updates for 770 btw | 21:21 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, we convinced the conspiracy nuts we could control them through hidden mind control chips in their computers :) | 21:22 |
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| aquatix | "could"? | 21:23 |
| r2d2rogers | how well does bzr run under maemo? <G> | 21:23 |
| * aquatix hides a window labelled `Control center' | 21:23 | |
| Stskeeps | r2d2rogers: decently, if you get qwerty's port, and python | 21:24 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:24 |
| r2d2rogers | will dig, for now I just got dns going again, so I can get out from the Mer instance | 21:26 |
| AStorm | I guess slower than usual | 21:26 |
| AStorm | and it's not fast to start with | 21:26 |
| r2d2rogers | qwerty12_N800: yeah, that rebooting is getting a tad annoying....... | 21:27 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: we desperately need to get either 1) an xterm 2) ability for load-applet to kill root things or 3) a shut down button.. | 21:27 |
| Stskeeps | btw | 21:27 |
| johnx | heh | 21:27 |
| qwerty12 | r2d2rogers, hehe, I had to disable watchdog to install gnome in deblet via maemo :) | 21:27 |
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| r2d2rogers | I'm getting reboots in Mer too | 21:28 |
| r2d2rogers | thinking to swap to the other 770 for a hardware check | 21:28 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, so osso-xterm doesn't behave in mer right, roxterm (and other xterms probably?) don't work with h-i-m | 21:29 |
| johnx | a shutdown menu item might be realistic | 21:29 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: and libvte9 doesnt work with our for some strange reasons.. | 21:29 |
| Stskeeps | +gdk | 21:29 |
| Stskeeps | maybe it needs a recompile | 21:29 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12's maemo port should work | 21:29 |
| qwerty12 | Maybe not, in Maemo, roxterm automatically detects h-i-m. I only did changes to the window etc, I never touched the input method :) | 21:30 |
| Stskeeps | curious | 21:30 |
| johnx | huh | 21:30 |
| johnx | so our vte? | 21:30 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: yeah, but you also use libvte9 i guess? | 21:31 |
| Stskeeps | er | 21:31 |
| Stskeeps | 4 | 21:31 |
| qwerty12 | yes | 21:31 |
| qwerty12 | Have you just tried applying maemo's vte4 "maemo_changes" patch to vte9? | 21:31 |
| qwerty12 | a lot of input method stuff gets handled there | 21:31 |
| Stskeeps | i will, but it'll be first after the 23rd :/ | 21:32 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: btw - http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2009/01/12/repos-a-la-mer/ , comment 9 | 21:33 |
| Stskeeps | he contacted wazd so i asked him to pass him on to this channel :) | 21:33 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, sounds *very* promising :) | 21:34 |
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| johnx | Stskeeps, ah, good! I looked at that and it seems to fit the bill. Will be great to have a couple "Mer exclusives" :) | 21:35 |
| johnx | so MerEcho and this | 21:35 |
| Stskeeps | and whatever wazd comes up with ;) | 21:36 |
| johnx | oh! I kinda washed over the other part of that post the first time too | 21:36 |
| johnx | he wants to help with low level stuff. woo! | 21:37 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 21:37 |
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| johnx | wazd is doing great PR so far :D | 21:38 |
| florian | re | 21:38 |
| Stskeeps | wb | 21:38 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: now we just need one of meiz's trademark videos of the boot process ;) | 21:39 |
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| thopiekar | hello | 21:40 |
| johnx | one more screenshot, then bed: http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/JohnX/mer-vga2.jpg | 21:41 |
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| Stskeeps | hehe | 21:42 |
| Stskeeps | that could almost run on a cellphone, yeah ;) | 21:42 |
| Stskeeps | wtf, help works? :P | 21:42 |
| johnx | yeah, scared me too :) | 21:42 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: you were speaking of a matchbox patch at some point btw | 21:43 |
| Stskeeps | regarding window placement | 21:43 |
| johnx | but we compiled libhildonhelp so ... guess that was it | 21:43 |
| thopiekar | I've got two questions... why is it so important to make a usb-network between the device and the pc to developt with esbox or pluthon? and why is the ip-adress in these plugins not changeable to link the plugins to wifi? | 21:43 |
| johnx | however, I can't *close* the help window | 21:44 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: < | 21:44 |
| Stskeeps | or whatever the return thing is | 21:44 |
| Stskeeps | oh, right, vga | 21:44 |
| Stskeeps | "esc" :P | 21:44 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, grr, if you set matchbox mode to free then by default, it fucks up the dialog sizes & placements. Matan released a replacement matchbox binary which solves those problems in free mode. But he didn't release a diff. He doesn't seem to scared of releasing source so if you ask him for the patch, I'm sure that he will happily oblige. | 21:45 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: alright, ta, will ask him | 21:45 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, my escape key sends F3 I believe :( | 21:45 |
| Jaffa | thopiekar: using the new versions of the plugins or the old ones? | 21:45 |
| thopiekar | the newest... but let my check it once again.. | 21:46 |
| RST38h | Symbian again. | 21:47 |
| Jaffa | I think the reason is that a) not many people are using them, b) the developers aren't using it in day-to-day development, c) it works for them, and that's enough | 21:47 |
| * Jaffa has been thinking today again about Eclipse-based IDEs for JVM-based Maemo development: http://lists.evolvis.org/pipermail/jalimo-info/2009-January/000256.html | 21:47 | |
| Stskeeps | johnx: weird fact btw - gnome-keyring comes up unthemed | 21:48 |
| johnx | huh...must not inherit some env variable | 21:48 |
| johnx | can you run it manually? | 21:49 |
| Stskeeps | i didn't investigate it that deepily | 21:49 |
| Stskeeps | i suspect i -want- to run it manually, since i want to get rid of it :P | 21:49 |
| Stskeeps | and just store its bloody keys and leave me in peace :P | 21:49 |
| johnx | yeah :) | 21:49 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: you mention WebOS as being "nicer" but you haven't really seen it yet | 21:50 |
| johnx | I think we can safely say this is one of those times when the user should have most of roots privileges | 21:50 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: have you actually tried Android development btw? | 21:51 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Not in terms of the platform (well, apart from the technical API details and debugging screenshots which are leaking out), but in terms of developer friendliness, I'm willing to put a fiver on it being better than Scratchbox, rootstraps and the rest. | 21:52 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Some simple stuff. I'm not talking (really) about the development platform, but the developer *tools*. | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | btw, what do you people think QT being LGPL'ed will mean for mobile UIs? i mean, with it in symbian, maemo, and easily adaptable for embedded devices, and stable and well documented | 21:52 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: You mean the IDE? | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | is it going to aid in the "fight" against android UI api and others? | 21:52 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: amongst other things, yes. | 21:53 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: I don't think there are other things, a debugger maybe... | 21:53 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, it is a huge blessing. pyqt is nice and simple | 21:53 |
| RST38h | development-wise Java is actually more of a problem than C/C++ (classpath etc) | 21:53 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Debugger's a big one. Remote debugging, even better. Have you seen the videos of iPhone development. | 21:53 |
| RST38h | No, but I do not use debuggers much anyway | 21:54 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: some of that matches some of my thoughts regarding SDK i had initially :) | 21:54 |
| RST38h | printf() usually solves all my problems | 21:54 |
| johnx | Jaffa, is that the part where the apple sends the guy an NDA or where he can't run his app in the background :> | 21:54 |
| thopiekar | Jaffa: I've got the newest plugin versions installed, but i can't even find a way to change the ip'S | 21:54 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Classpath's not really been an issue for the last 5 years or so. And now even with things like OSGi you can have multiple classpath versions in the same JVM | 21:54 |
| RST38h | MULTIPLE classpathes? | 21:55 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: You're not going to start arguing that because you find printf() a perfectly satisfactory debugging technique, everyone else should too. | 21:55 |
| RST38h | I have problems with a single one, honestly... | 21:55 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: nah, not starting an argument here | 21:55 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Just saying that for me personally debugger isn't a priority | 21:55 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: multiple classpath version things. Useful for plugin environments where you want to run multiple separate plugins in the same environment, without resolving any dependency issues. | 21:55 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Don't want to run any Java. | 21:56 |
| RST38h | Usually crashes on my computer anyway | 21:56 |
| Jaffa | johnx: And, no - I'm not praising Apple's business practices. Their device. Or the iPhone. Just development tooling. Post-run profiling and debugging, remotely is a pretty compelling demo. | 21:57 |
| wazd | Palm Pre is for pussies. New Obama's smartphone is for real men :D | 21:57 |
| johnx | Jaffa, I largely agree with you that maemo development tools (and especially tool setup) could be better. I was just having a dig :) | 21:57 |
| RST38h | wazd: WinMobile? naah | 21:57 |
| RST38h | wazd: He should be running EPOC16 to be a real man | 21:57 |
| Jaffa | johnx: bad time; *really* bad time ;-) | 21:57 |
| wazd | RST38h: It's Win CE :) | 21:57 |
| RST38h | wazd: he has got command.com on his phone! | 21:58 |
| RST38h | elEeT | 21:58 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: so has problems on the same days that zunes does? :P | 21:58 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: as I've read that Zune problem was actualy CPU problem :) | 21:59 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: I would say, a more useful idea would be to improve C/C++ debugging and development | 21:59 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Let us say, take Geany on the desktop and integrate it with gdb running on the device | 21:59 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: And instead of the dreadful scratchbox, use plain ssh to connect and run gdb | 21:59 |
| Stskeeps | gdbserver..? :P | 22:00 |
| RST38h | something like that | 22:00 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Absolutely. More sensible development tools would be great. Go to it. Personally, I'm having difficulty motivating myself to do the things I want to do at the moment. And dealing with low-level C APIs, ain't it. | 22:00 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: The above stuff does not involve dealing with C | 22:01 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Ironically, it is mostly shell scripting | 22:01 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: And possibly some perl/python to parse gdb output | 22:01 |
| Jaffa | Yes, but despite supporting improving C tools; since I don't want to *use* C tools, where's my itch? | 22:01 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: Dunno, maybe do the same for Python instead? | 22:02 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: Doing it for Java is kinda impractical because nobody wants to use Java | 22:02 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: btw, you're speaking in similar lines of some thoughts quim had in a convo i had him over maemo reconstructed | 22:02 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: You may want to do it for JavaScript/XUL, THAT would be interesting | 22:02 |
| lcuk | i think we should disable all other computers and work entirely from the tablets for a week. we would streamline lots of things ;) | 22:03 |
| Stskeeps | regarding the supporting different languages (python, javascript, etc) | 22:03 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: But tthe JS/XUL stuff has to start with creating a decent execution environment | 22:03 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I did that | 22:03 |
| lcuk | RST38h, bull!!! certainly you or I dont like java, but lots do | 22:03 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Haven't done much development but read a lot of books :) | 22:03 |
| lcuk | heh | 22:03 |
| RST38h | lcuk: If lots of people liked Java, Jalimo would have gotten wider use by now | 22:03 |
| Stskeeps | is jalimo even in extras? | 22:04 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Which leads to conclusion that not a lot of people like Java | 22:04 |
| RST38h | It is | 22:04 |
| RST38h | . | 22:04 |
| lcuk | we are asked extremely often "does the device run java" they get a big fat ummmm no not really | 22:04 |
| Stskeeps | scary | 22:04 |
| Stskeeps | didn't know that | 22:04 |
| RST38h | You can install it right away | 22:04 |
| AStorm | lcuk: can't you build us GNU classpath? | 22:04 |
| AStorm | it'd run at least some Java that way | 22:04 |
| RST38h | lcuk: That is a question about j2me not java | 22:04 |
| RST38h | lcuk: And I remember ablog post about jalimo running j2me now | 22:05 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: BTW, want an idea? | 22:05 |
| lcuk | AStorm, im not a java person | 22:05 |
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| Jaffa | Stskeeps: no, there's been some discussion: a) it's not quite ready, b) since it's cross-platform they're using the OpenEmbedded build process which wouldn't work well with the autobuilder. | 22:07 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: There is already a project to make Google Gadgets run on Maemo. You can take THAT, get it to product condition and add a debugger to it | 22:07 |
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| Jaffa | Google Gadgets aren't applications. | 22:08 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: This would be extremely cool as it 1) gives you a library of gadgets 2) implements your idea of everything being a scriptable object 3) gets publicity | 22:08 |
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| Jaffa | And if "noone" wanted to use Java, it wouldn't be one of the most used languages on the planet. | 22:08 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: They look like applications to me | 22:08 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: my "idea of everything being a scriptable object"? | 22:09 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: they look like applets/portlets/widgets/gadgets to me. | 22:09 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: well you obviously like webOS | 22:09 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: you also like Android | 22:09 |
| lcuk | jaffa, technically whats the difference between an app and a gadget/widget thingy? | 22:09 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Yes, but when widget stops being an application? | 22:09 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: they live on the desktop they are written in JavaScript (right?), so that must be IT> | 22:10 |
| RST38h | ? | 22:10 |
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| Jaffa | RST38h: I like the concept of webOS from an abstract technical point of view. If you've read my comments (I don't expect you to hang on my every word) you'll also know I see lots of intrinsic problems with doing anything really complex (i.e. SSH clients) | 22:10 |
| RST38h | agreed | 22:10 |
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| RST38h | Although I guess you can always add a native API for that and call it | 22:11 |
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| Jaffa | RST38h: Assuming you're not being facetious, an application is something which fits in with the style guidelines and user experience of the rest of the system. A widget sits somewhere central and looks pretty. | 22:11 |
| lcuk | scripted languages get best performance and advantages when backed up with native libraries :) | 22:11 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Well, assuming Palm let you. | 22:11 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: With google widgets on the tablet you do not need to ask palm's permission | 22:11 |
| lcuk | jaffa ;) technically im sure its possible to make scruffy ugly widgets which do everything a bad business app does | 22:12 |
| lcuk | RST38h, palm widgets are html arent they? | 22:12 |
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| lcuk | rendered with webkit or something? | 22:12 |
| RST38h | lcuk: no idea, palm claims they are | 22:12 |
| lcuk | doesnt seem unreasonable :) | 22:13 |
| RST38h | lcuk: but before we see the sdk, can't tell | 22:13 |
| lcuk | even when you do you might not see the 'binary' produced from your source ;) | 22:13 |
| RST38h | well doing shaped widgets in html is somewhat unoptimal | 22:13 |
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| lcuk | maybe raw html it is, but i thought weve had transparent stuff for yonks. besides, where do you see shaped widgets? | 22:14 |
| lcuk | i recall most ui stuff being same as anywhere else | 22:14 |
| RST38h | green dialpad for example | 22:15 |
| * r2d2rogers tries to figure out why his touchscreen isn't working | 22:17 | |
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| Stskeeps | r2d2rogers: check Xorg.0.log? | 22:18 |
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| r2d2rogers | Stskeeps: looking at it now... looks fine | 22:18 |
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| r2d2rogers | sets up TslibDevice as /dev/input/event2 | 22:18 |
| Stskeeps | did we agree that was the right event file? | 22:19 |
| r2d2rogers | yup | 22:19 |
| Stskeeps | also, we disabled the cursor | 22:19 |
| Stskeeps | but that's long ago | 22:19 |
| * wazd still tries to think over notifications and task switcher | 22:19 | |
| r2d2rogers | I can cat the device and only get output when I'm touching the screen | 22:19 |
| r2d2rogers | where in the initfs is the firmware again? | 22:20 |
| Stskeeps | usr/lib/hotplug? | 22:20 |
| Stskeeps | cant recall | 22:20 |
| RST38h | wazd: btw there is one problem with showing task switcher at the top | 22:20 |
| RST38h | wazd: you now share a relatively short strip of the screen between status bar applets, task switcher, and window titles | 22:21 |
| r2d2rogers | sts you got it ... thanks | 22:21 |
| RST38h | wazd: there is simply not enough space to accommodate them all | 22:21 |
| wazd | RST38h: there won't be window title :) | 22:22 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: task switcher overlaps into the switcher menu anyway? | 22:22 |
| RST38h | wazd: it may be better to remove separate icons for tasks completely and leave one taskswcher icon instead, the one that brings up tasks emnu | 22:22 |
| RST38h | menu | 22:22 |
| RST38h | wazd: and make that icon an applet, like other applets :) | 22:22 |
| RST38h | no window title -> not nice | 22:22 |
| RST38h | Sts: ? | 22:22 |
| wazd | RST38h: why do you need title?) Useless feature imho | 22:23 |
| wazd | RST38H: good point bout switcher though | 22:23 |
| RST38h | I am used to titles, like 'em | 22:23 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: that on maemo the tasks that dont fit in, overflow into the >> then | 22:23 |
| Stskeeps | thing | 22:23 |
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| wazd | RST38h: but dropdown switcher would slow switching process in compare with original Maemo | 22:24 |
| johnx | RST38h, titles are fine when you have space to kill | 22:25 |
| RST38h | Sts: yes, I suggest to keep only the >> icon and make it a status bar applet | 22:25 |
| johnx | wazd, I love seeing the mer logo but have you considered having the app menu use the same icon as the menu button on the n8x0 for clarity | 22:25 |
| johnx | ? | 22:25 |
| RST38h | wazd: it will but just a littl ebit | 22:25 |
| RST38h | wazd: but it will free more space for status bar applets like a proper clock | 22:25 |
| johnx | RST38h, 2 clicks instead of 1 is a pain for one of the most often use cases | 22:26 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: want a new image to test with so you can be more prepared for 0.6? | 22:26 |
| RST38h | johnx: true... | 22:26 |
| b-man | shure :) | 22:26 |
| wazd | RST38h: Right now there's a space for 7 applets and 7 tasks | 22:26 |
| johnx | RST38h, how about a button to show the title? :) | 22:26 |
| wazd | RST38h: I'm not sure you've launched more than 7 tasks on maemo :) | 22:27 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: i launch ~7-8 :P | 22:27 |
| Stskeeps | browser windows can destroy things | 22:27 |
| wazd | Stskepps: oh my :) | 22:27 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: they are shown as one | 22:27 |
| Stskeeps | true | 22:27 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: icon with numbers | 22:28 |
| * b-man was just finishing up building merinstaller-1.5.1-1_armel.deb | 22:28 | |
| johnx | as long as there is a >> dropdown for tasks and a >> for applets it's not a problem | 22:28 |
| b-man | Stskeeps: shure, i'll try out a nother image :) | 22:29 |
| * johnx really sleeps | 22:29 | |
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| Stskeeps | b-man: yeah, uploading it | 22:29 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: http://stskeeps.subnetmask.net/mer/mer-n800-fs-only-image.tar.gz | 22:30 |
| b-man | thanks | 22:30 |
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| wazd | we can even make not 7/7 but 6/8 or even 5/9 | 22:31 |
| Stskeeps | current issues: backspace in hildon-input-method kills Xorg, wifi isn't power saved, at all, and we have no dsme tools just yet :) | 22:31 |
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| RST38h | wazd: 7 applets is a bit low | 22:31 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: i have a jffs2 image too if you're bored. :P | 22:31 |
| b-man | Stskeeps: k | 22:32 |
| wazd | RST38h: same as the original, but I agree that it's not so much | 22:32 |
| wazd | RST38h: that's why we can reallange numbers | 22:32 |
| wazd | rearrange* | 22:32 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps, i'll have fun trying to flash it directly on the N800 :), but I guess it is not out of the realms of possibility that I use mtd-tools... | 22:33 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: hehe | 22:33 |
| * b-man starts downloading new image using wget in ubuntu jaunty | 22:33 | |
| wazd | We can maybe even allow user to chose | 22:35 |
| qwerty12_N800 | I've half-merged the maemo changes patch to vte9 but it's being pretty anal re compiling... | 22:35 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: my favourite interface would be one i could lock/unlock and everything would be hildon home screen applets | 22:35 |
| Stskeeps | and some would have stronger z value/borders | 22:35 |
| Stskeeps | so you could set up your own layout | 22:36 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: that would be difficult for developers :) | 22:36 |
| wazd | Stskeeps: since they don't know what layout user is using) | 22:36 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, true | 22:36 |
| Stskeeps | they can learn some bloody window size independence then, or something | 22:36 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:36 |
| b-man | Stskeeps: dsme-tools from deblet doesn't wor in mer? - it does in ubuntu jaunty | 22:37 |
| b-man | edit: work | 22:37 |
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| ShadowJK | <Stskeeps> they can learn some bloody window size independence then, or something | 22:37 |
| zakkm | b-man: you there? | 22:37 |
| wazd | So, if you'll allow user to choose the number of tasks and applets shown - that would be super awesome | 22:37 |
| ShadowJK | about bloody time | 22:37 |
| b-man | zakkm: yes | 22:38 |
| b-man | :) | 22:38 |
| zakkm | b-man: im following your ubuntu januty guide and i got stuck at a part i was wondering if you could make it clear | 22:38 |
| zakkm | Next, we will copy over a bootstrap script witch will allow us to properly bootstrap Ubuntu Jaunty. Download the bootstrap-script.tar.gz file | 22:38 |
| wazd | Then he could even make tasks as a dropdown menu and full taskbar would be covered with applets :) | 22:38 |
| wazd | Or other way :) | 22:39 |
| b-man | what was the problem? | 22:39 |
| zakkm | so im doing this on my nokia right | 22:39 |
| zakkm | so idownloaded the tar.gz to "Nokia N800" | 22:39 |
| zakkm | then im stuck | 22:39 |
| b-man | yes | 22:40 |
| b-man | do you have debootstrap installed? | 22:40 |
| zakkm | no | 22:41 |
| zakkm | is it just in apt-get? | 22:41 |
| b-man | yup :) | 22:41 |
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| b-man | you will have to copy that file to /usr/share/devbootstrap/scripts | 22:41 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: btw did you remember the part about binutils and md5sum in your guide? | 22:41 |
| roope | Mer looks interesting. :) | 22:41 |
| zakkm | so i extract the tar.gz and copy contents to /usr/share/debootstrap/strips? | 22:41 |
| b-man | ....................no | 22:42 |
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| b-man | zakkm: remember to un-pack it first ;) | 22:42 |
| AStorm | hey, do we have a port of nethack to nit? | 22:42 |
| qwerty12_N800 | there's a hildonized os2008 one somewhere | 22:43 |
| zakkm | no repo has binutils? | 22:43 |
| qwerty12_N800 | or a terminal one elsewhere | 22:43 |
| zakkm | package binutils is not avaliable.. according to apt-get | 22:43 |
| zakkm | which debootstrap wants | 22:43 |
| b-man | zakkm: you might need to add the deblet repo then | 22:44 |
| Stskeeps | roope: it wouldn't be possible without all the work put into hildon etc by nokia though :) we hope it can benefit both community and benefit nokia. having a place community can run amok could yield interesting ideas :) | 22:44 |
| zakkm | deblet repo for maemo? | 22:44 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: binutils is in sdk tools i think | 22:44 |
| b-man | zakkm: yes | 22:45 |
| * b-man takes note of adding deblet repo to guide | 22:45 | |
| AStorm | qwerty12_N800, somewhere != extras | 22:45 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: and no, you don't need to add deblet repo though | 22:45 |
| zakkm | stskeeps: what should i do then | 22:45 |
| Stskeeps | debootstrap is in extras(-devel) | 22:45 |
| Stskeeps | sec.. | 22:45 |
| qwerty12_N800 | AStorm, somewhere = www.google.com | 22:45 |
| zakkm | ? i have extras-devel | 22:45 |
| zakkm | no theres debootsrap but it wants binutils.. which isnt in it | 22:46 |
| AStorm | nah, I had no meaningful hits | 22:46 |
| AStorm | qwerty12_N800, gimme an url | 22:46 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: for md5: http://trac.tspre.org/svn/deblet/trunk/packages/installer/deblet-installer/usr/libexec/deblet/md5sum | 22:46 |
| Stskeeps | chmod +x, put in /bin | 22:46 |
| b-man | zakkm: try apt-get update and see if that helps | 22:46 |
| b-man | Stskeeps: thanks | 22:46 |
| RST38h | jaffa: http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9685/interview-with-pandora-about-developing-for-webos/ | 22:46 |
| zakkm | doubt it , but okay | 22:47 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: ta. I see "Pandora", I don't think web radio, I think vapourwareish handheld ;-) | 22:47 |
| qwerty12_N800 | AStorm, http://personal.telefonica.terra.es/web/n770galaxy/IT2008/nethack_3.4.3_armel.deb - knock yourself out ;) | 22:47 |
| zakkm | b-man: same thing | 22:48 |
| b-man | zakkm: if that fails, you can get the deblet repo from http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet | 22:48 |
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| zakkm | b-man: page is loading | 22:49 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: naah, different pandora. but read what he says about the sdk | 22:49 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Yeah, reading it now. Interesting stuff. | 22:50 |
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| zakkm | b-man: working good so far | 22:50 |
| b-man | cool :) | 22:51 |
| zakkm | b-man: so i unpack the tar.gz .. move file to /usr/share/debootstrap/scripts/jaunty and then do the insmod's? | 22:51 |
| b-man | yup | 22:51 |
| Shadow_M | hey so i am using the internal email client on n810 to access my gmail imap on that account using the web interface i can send emails from more than one address is that achievable | 22:52 |
| Shadow_M | also internal keyboard ftw! | 22:53 |
| b-man | Stskeeps: silly question; what is the purpose of md5sums and binutills, and how are thay used? | 22:53 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: binutils, unpacking the packages, md5sum, validating downloads | 22:53 |
| zakkm | is the wikipedia offline thingy any useful? | 22:54 |
| b-man | ok | 22:54 |
| Stskeeps | zakkm: do you go to any pub quizzes? | 22:54 |
| Shadow_M | noooo dont use md5 | 22:54 |
| zakkm | pub quizzes? | 22:54 |
| zakkm | whats that? | 22:54 |
| zakkm | ohh -.- | 22:54 |
| zakkm | no but im in highschool? | 22:54 |
| b-man | i am too | 22:54 |
| zakkm | i mean like is it a well-done application | 22:54 |
| Stskeeps | drinking games based on answering quizzes :P | 22:54 |
| Stskeeps | at that point, offline wikipedia -is very usefu- | 22:55 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:55 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: I think he hits the nail on the head (as we supposed): a certain class of apps will be easy to write, will integrate well and make dealing with high-level XML/JSON-based upstream web content easy. But somethings will be hard, properly Hard. Then again, everyone wrote Nintendo off for releasing a system which was underpowered compared with their competitors, but the games were still compelling enough to sell. Casual gaming is on a resurgence, AIU | 22:55 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: This problem is different from Nintendo's | 22:55 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: Nintendo may have had underpowered hardware but did not restrict access to it, so you could code all assembly you wanted | 22:56 |
| Shadow_M | anyohne on the internal email client | 22:56 |
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| Stskeeps | Shadow_M: nah, i use claws mail | 22:56 |
| Stskeeps | modest makes me want to punch my tablet occasionally, so | 22:56 |
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| Stskeeps | and i like my tablet. | 22:56 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Here you have another (definitely not the first, after Android and the initial Apple effort) attempt to make an "easy" API for app developers | 22:57 |
| Shadow_M | ah something about claws that i didnt like | 22:57 |
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| Jaffa | RST38h: To an extent. You can't do photo-realistic gaming on a Wii (without stupid amounts of hand-optimisation which just isn't economical) and can on an Xbox 360/PS3. You (probably) can't do much in the way of high-speed first person shooters on webOS; but you can do puzzle/simple/casual games like Tetris. | 22:57 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: And, of course, if you use web page tools to write an app then any app that is not a web page will be difficult to write | 22:57 |
| r2d2rogers | anyone got a hint for getting bluetooth keyboard working from commandline? | 22:57 |
| Shadow_M | i tried it didnt like it all that much and i havnt had an issue with modest and i dont want to punch mine | 22:57 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Let me take another cheap shot | 22:58 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: How about Chess? ;) | 22:58 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: And the great thing about Maemo is that you're not limited to a single API or a single layer. No-one's arguing about that. But having a better system's useless if no-one's developing for it. | 22:58 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Nobody is developing for webOs YET | 22:58 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: I think the "not a web page" argument doesn't hold water with the way that things like HTML5 and rich JavaScript apps are going. | 22:58 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: So let us not be hasteful with analysis | 22:58 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Well, no-one outside the commercial pre-launch partners. | 22:58 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: In reality, the "not a web page" argument is not as black-and-white as I have stated it | 22:59 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: Rather, it feels like "the less static your application is, the more difficult it is to do in HTML and JS" | 22:59 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: I'd happily put (some) money on more apps being in Palm's App Catalog within, say, 3 months of launch than there are in downloads.maemo.org/OS2008 after 2 years. | 22:59 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: No argument from me. | 23:00 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: So the "no-one's developing for webOS *YET*" is a valid point, but I think we can safely extrapolate. | 23:00 |
| RST38h | But my suspicion is that at some point Palm will break and publish a native API | 23:00 |
| sisto | i have a new printer :D | 23:00 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Can't safely extrapolate in this business | 23:00 |
| Jaffa | Whether anyone will be developing for it in 3 years time, who knows. (Then again, same goes for Maemo ;-)) | 23:00 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Way too many variables | 23:00 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Agreed. A native API is inevitable. | 23:00 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: not just technical ones but economic, social, etc | 23:01 |
| * b-man starts to be a little envyus about palm pre's UI | 23:01 | |
| Jaffa | Palm's business is dependent on Pre/webOS being a success. | 23:01 |
| RST38h | For all I know, Palm may go tits up before it releases the Pre to the masses | 23:01 |
| Jaffa | Or pull it pre-launch like the Foleo. | 23:01 |
| RST38h | That would be a joke | 23:01 |
| Jaffa | Hmm, I wonder how much of Foleo's Linux-based OS is underneath webOS. | 23:02 |
| RST38h | "linux-based OS" is otherwise known as "linux", so all of it. | 23:02 |
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| zakkm | b-man: when i run the first insmod i get | 23:02 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Bollocks. | 23:02 |
| zakkm | insmod: cannot insert '/mnt/initfs/lib/modules/2.6.21-omap1/mbcache.ko': File exists (-1): File exists | 23:02 |
| Stskeeps | zakkm: fine | 23:03 |
| Jaffa | Android is Linux-based. So was the Zaurus OS. Same kernel, but the libraries building it up are different. | 23:03 |
| qwerty12_N800 | ignore it, it means | 23:03 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: All right, let us see | 23:03 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | it's already inserted | 23:03 |
| b-man | zakkm: ignore those errors, i get them all the time ;) | 23:03 |
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| zakkm | oh okay :) | 23:03 |
| zakkm | sorry | 23:03 |
| zakkm | i want to do this right | 23:03 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: They have all got Linux kernel. They have all got libc/libm/libz/etc. | 23:03 |
| suihkulokki | foleo was based on linux 2.4 | 23:03 |
| Jaffa | suihkulokki: It was? | 23:04 |
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| suihkulokki | I doubt much from that port is going to be useful for a omap3 device :P | 23:04 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: They have all got pretty much the same drivers. Same busybox. Same basic utilities (cat/ps/who/etc) | 23:04 |
| zakkm | b-man: how lnog would the debootstrap take? rough estimate | 23:04 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Some of them even got the same X11/SDL/etc | 23:04 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: PulseAudio/ALSA/gstreamer? Xorg/kdrive/Framebuffer? Gtk/Qt/Clutter/WebKit? | 23:04 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: These do not consitute a "system" | 23:04 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Your desktop PC may have ALL OF THEM at once | 23:05 |
| b-man | zakkm: 1/2 hour to 1.5 hours at best | 23:05 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: So? | 23:05 |
| zakkm | ohh error | 23:05 |
| zakkm | E: Couldn't download dists/jaunty/main/binary-armel/Packages | 23:05 |
| suihkulokki | Jaffa: see the last pic here: http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9439/palm-foleo-hands-on-gallery/ | 23:05 |
| * Jaffa ain't gonna get into a semantic debate now over what a "system" is. You win. | 23:05 | |
| RST38h | Jaffa: So what we have is the same Linux (not some "linux-based OS") with some different app frameworks on top | 23:05 |
| b-man | zakkm: how strong is your connection? | 23:06 |
| zakkm | it was like 3rd one | 23:06 |
| Jaffa | suihkulokki: Oh yeah. | 23:06 |
| zakkm | strong enough | 23:06 |
| b-man | hmm | 23:06 |
| zakkm | W: http://ports.ubuntu.com/dists/jaunty/main/binary-armel/Packages.bz2 was corrupt | 23:06 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: It is actually important to understand so that next time when some Motorla is telling you of a miraculous "linux based system" you just know they have taken a standard embedded linux | 23:06 |
| zakkm | im sshing from my pc too | 23:06 |
| zakkm | so the connection has to be on | 23:06 |
| RST38h | and put some glazing on top | 23:06 |
| suihkulokki | bonus points for anyone who recognizes the "terminal" application from the version number :) | 23:06 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Montavista's "standard embedded Linux" or someone elses | 23:06 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: The differences are usually cosmetic | 23:07 |
| b-man | did you use my jaunty script? don't use the one that comes from debootstrap | 23:07 |
| RST38h | Now, if one of these companies takes Linux kernel and makes drastic changes to it, THAT is a linux based system indeed :) | 23:07 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Having put together at least 2 different Linux distributions (and a kernel does not an OS make), I think I understand what someone means by "Linux-based OS", thankyouverymuchkthxby | 23:07 |
| zakkm | yes i removed the symlink | 23:07 |
| zakkm | and copied the one from tar.gz | 23:07 |
| RST38h | then no need to argue | 23:07 |
| Jaffa | I don't like being patronised. | 23:08 |
| * b-man ponders | 23:08 | |
| RST38h | Not trying to patronise, but am trying to define things | 23:08 |
| RST38h | Always the required first step before discussing them | 23:08 |
| andre___ | lardman|gone, can i trick you into retesting in fremantle sdk pre alpha some of the kernel/dsp bugs you filed against diablo? or is the sdk still missing some of required components? :-/ | 23:08 |
| Jaffa | Most of the time, your over accurate desire to define things gets in the way of useful discussion. | 23:08 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: that is because you take it for an argument :) | 23:08 |
| lcuk | andre___, does the dsp work in the emulator? | 23:09 |
| RST38h | It's not an argument yet, usually :) | 23:09 |
| Jaffa | Who cares if webOS is "Linux-based" or "Linux"? I can't take an ARM Linux binary from one system and run it on the other. Application portability is a good a definition of an OS as any other. | 23:09 |
| andre___ | lcuk, i simply don't know (never been hacking on low level stuff ever), hence i ask idiot questions :-D | 23:09 |
| b-man | zakkm: have you tryed re-connecting to the wed, that usually fixes it for me | 23:10 |
| lcuk | seems reasonable :D i always thought the hardware emulation was minimal | 23:10 |
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| zakkm | okay i will | 23:10 |
| lcuk | jaffa, RST38h the most important thing is that the term "webOS" is a complete lie :D | 23:10 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Sometimes you can :) | 23:10 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: Well, it is a trademark, not a lie | 23:11 |
| qwerty12_N800 | andre___, qemu in diablo in diablo sdk cannot emulate even "standard" audio :) | 23:11 |
| andre___ | eeks | 23:11 |
| andre___ | k | 23:11 |
| lcuk | heh | 23:11 |
| RST38h | But I guess that in physical reality "webOS" is basically a runtime framework on top of Linux | 23:11 |
| RST38h | Same as "Android" is just a java-like runtime | 23:11 |
| lcuk | its a web browser | 23:11 |
| zakkm | b-man: same thing | 23:12 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Not based on what the PandoraFM guy said | 23:12 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: did you see the interview above? | 23:12 |
| lcuk | theres an interview? | 23:12 |
| zakkm | b-man: going to pastebin it | 23:12 |
| zakkm | b-man: http://pastebin.com/m235581c3 | 23:12 |
| RST38h | lcuk: http://www.palminfocenter.com/news/9685/interview-with-pandora-about-developing-for-webos/ | 23:12 |
| lcuk | got it | 23:12 |
| lcuk | thx ill read | 23:13 |
| b-man | zakkm: hmm, it looks like it might be a problem on the server side | 23:14 |
| zakkm | a huh | 23:14 |
| zakkm | so should i wait a day or so? | 23:14 |
| b-man | mabe.. :( | 23:15 |
| zakkm | ;( | 23:15 |
| zakkm | i wanted ubuntu ;p | 23:15 |
| b-man | zakkm: i'll see what the problem is soon, don't worry ;) | 23:16 |
| * b-man takes a look.. | 23:16 | |
| lcuk | :D w00t they are gonna use flash | 23:16 |
| b-man | <update> zakkm, did you have bzip2 installed by eny chance? | 23:17 |
| zakkm | i should? ill double check though | 23:18 |
| zakkm | b-man: bzip2 is already the newest version. | 23:18 |
| b-man | hmm.... | 23:19 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Did you install md5sum like Stskeeps said? | 23:19 |
| zakkm | oh well whatever, just thought it would be cool | 23:19 |
| Stskeeps | what qwerty12_N800 said | 23:20 |
| Stskeeps | the problem is exactly md5sum not installed in /bin/sh and chmod +x'ed | 23:20 |
| Stskeeps | er | 23:20 |
| Stskeeps | /bin/md5sum | 23:20 |
| Stskeeps | not /bin/sh | 23:20 |
| b-man | zakkm: don't give up :D | 23:20 |
| Stskeeps | which would completely brick your tablet | 23:20 |
| Shadow_M | never give up | 23:20 |
| Shadow_M | Stskeeps, could the tablet actually be bricked | 23:21 |
| zakkm | its called WSOD :) | 23:21 |
| Stskeeps | Shadow_M: if you overwrite NOLO you're pretty much fucked | 23:21 |
| Stskeeps | unlesss you do a cold flash, which is a special story | 23:21 |
| Shadow_M | ah hmm | 23:21 |
| trenka | service point can restore it | 23:22 |
| Shadow_M | even if you ruin the os | 23:22 |
| Shadow_M | right | 23:22 |
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| Shadow_M | i mean i thought generally it was just like another linux comp | 23:23 |
| b-man | zakkm: Packages.bz2 unpacked for me.. hmmm | 23:23 |
| r2d2rogers | Stskeeps: ssh -X is nice for getting through the first boot wizard, X tunneled through ssh let me complete the wizard | 23:23 |
| zakkm | b-man: ill reinstall bzip2 and try agin | 23:23 |
| * b-man does some more pondering... | 23:23 | |
| b-man | k | 23:23 |
| zakkm | Setting up bzip2 (1.0.4-2maemo5) ... | 23:24 |
| zakkm | if that helps at all? | 23:24 |
| zakkm | b-man: same error | 23:25 |
| b-man | hmm | 23:25 |
| Stskeeps | zakkm: ls -l /bin/md5sum | 23:25 |
| zakkm | Nokia-N800-43-7:~# ls -l /bin/md5sum | 23:25 |
| zakkm | ls: /bin/md5sum: No such file or directory | 23:25 |
| Stskeeps | well there you go. | 23:25 |
| qwerty12_N800 | *cough* | 23:26 |
| Shadow_M | lol | 23:26 |
| zakkm | ? | 23:26 |
| zakkm | my fault? | 23:26 |
| Stskeeps | http://trac.tspre.org/svn/deblet/trunk/packages/installer/deblet-installer/usr/libexec/deblet/md5sum | 23:26 |
| Shadow_M | they told you to install that | 23:26 |
| b-man | zakkm: that's the problem! XD | 23:26 |
| Stskeeps | put in /bin/md5sum | 23:26 |
| Stskeeps | chmod +x /bin/md5sum | 23:26 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Kinda funny when Stskeeps said it and I pointed it out again ;) | 23:26 |
| Stskeeps | try again. | 23:26 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: i've said it three times now. | 23:26 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:26 |
| Shadow_M | i heard ya | 23:26 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps, hehe :p | 23:26 |
| zakkm | thought u2 were talking to eachother | 23:26 |
| zakkm | not to me | 23:26 |
| Stskeeps | [22:18] <qwerty12_N800> Did you install md5sum like Stskeeps said? | 23:27 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:27 |
| zakkm | Nokia-N800-43-7:/bin# ls -l /bin/md5sum | 23:27 |
| zakkm | -rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 19971 Oct 4 16:45 /bin/md5sum | 23:27 |
| zakkm | Nokia-N800-43-7:/bin# | 23:27 |
| zakkm | sorrry :( | 23:27 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: we need to figure out a way to determine which /dev/mmc is the internal and which is the external.. a sane way, that is | 23:27 |
| zakkm | yay it goes :) | 23:27 |
| b-man | wohooo!!!! | 23:28 |
| zakkm | Stskeeps: just a thought, wouldnt internal be mounted first by maemo? | 23:28 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: i'm thinking .. /proc/partitions, mknod somewhere | 23:28 |
| Stskeeps | zakkm: it's not that easy it somewhere | 23:28 |
| * b-man is definetly adding md5sums to guide ;) | 23:28 | |
| zakkm | b-man: by the time im done installing, your have to redo the guide ;p | 23:28 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps, :/, N810 is the ultimate fuck up device :( | 23:28 |
| b-man | zakkm: lol | 23:29 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: and then using that mknod to mkfs on and mount and such, and get internal/external based on sysfs | 23:29 |
| zakkm | b-man: how much does it download? | 23:29 |
| zakkm | this script? | 23:29 |
| b-man | not quite shure... if i can recall, 128-200 mb | 23:29 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: s/shure/sure/ ;) | 23:30 |
| Stskeeps | (spelling nazi.) | 23:30 |
| Stskeeps | <-, that is | 23:30 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:30 |
| b-man | lol | 23:30 |
| b-man | i've herd that one! | 23:30 |
| b-man | "spelling natzi" | 23:30 |
| zakkm | b-man: how fast is ubuntu on it? | 23:31 |
| zakkm | gnome that is | 23:31 |
| b-man | if you use swap, not so bad :) | 23:31 |
| zakkm | could i replace window manager? | 23:31 |
| b-man | i'm not shure | 23:32 |
| b-man | stskeeps: sorry if my spelling is horible, i'm using a on-screen kb most of the time ;p | 23:33 |
| zakkm | https://launchpad.net/ubuntu/jaunty/armel/fvwm-crystal/3.0.5.dfsg-2 would that be possible to use? | 23:34 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: fair enough | 23:34 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: you can remove text completion errors with tap and hold ;) | 23:34 |
| b-man | oh | 23:34 |
| Stskeeps | according to Benson, at least | 23:34 |
| b-man | heh | 23:35 |
| Shadow_M | b-man link to the guide? | 23:35 |
| b-man | hold on (my tablet is being slow) | 23:36 |
| Stskeeps | b-man: you code on your tablet too? | 23:36 |
| Stskeeps | as in, directly | 23:36 |
| b-man | yes :) | 23:37 |
| Stskeeps | well that explains some things i guess | 23:37 |
| b-man | hehe XD | 23:37 |
| Shadow_M | i think its time to get a external keyboard | 23:37 |
| Shadow_M | maybe bluetooth | 23:37 |
| b-man | Shadow_M: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=254257#post254257 | 23:38 |
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| Shadow_M | thanks | 23:39 |
| b-man | Stskeeps: that's why i'm getting a laptop :) | 23:39 |
| *** Gracana has quit IRC | 23:40 | |
| Stskeeps | b-man: staying here for 15 minutes? | 23:42 |
| b-man | god its wintery here, there is over 12" of snow and it's going to only be -9 F here tonight ;p | 23:42 |
| b-man | shure, if i can :) | 23:43 |
| b-man | damn connection if failing on me | 23:43 |
| b-man | edit: is | 23:43 |
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| Stskeeps | gah | 23:48 |
| *** eichi has joined #maemo | 23:48 | |
| Stskeeps | how the heck do you find the major/minor for a device in sh? | 23:48 |
| qwerty12_N800 | afaik, ls -l lists it | 23:49 |
| qwerty12_N800 | busybox one too even | 23:49 |
| Stskeeps | yes, but its hard to get into shell ; | 23:50 |
| Stskeeps | ) | 23:50 |
| * b-man wonders why debootstrap doesn't have md5sums and binutills as dependences | 23:50 | |
| Stskeeps | b-man: cos i didnt upload it | 23:51 |
| Stskeeps | but yes, it ought to :P | 23:51 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps, ls -l /dev/mmcblk0 | awk '{print $5, $6}' ;) | 23:53 |
| b-man | grrr, touch screen isn't working properly because hildon messed up >:( | 23:54 |
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| b-man | rebooting* | 23:54 |
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| *** b-man has joined #maemo | 23:59 | |
| b-man | i'm back | 23:59 |
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