IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2009-01-13

Stskeeps	qwerty12_N800: good business model	00:00
qwerty12_N800	hehe	00:02
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Stskeeps	johnx: what's the difference between maemo zenity and zenity ubuntu?	00:03
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Stskeeps	johnx: is your first-boot-wizard in repo the one to be tested, btw?	00:03
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Stskeeps	mac10 :P	00:05
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Stskeeps	?	00:05
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qwerty12_N800	testing something & mac-10 was the first thing i thought of :p	00:06
Stskeeps	hehe	00:06
johnx	Stskeeps, ask qwerty12_N800 about the difference between ubuntu zenity and maemo zenitty	00:06
Stskeeps	qwerty12_N800: ? :P	00:06
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qwerty12_N800	Stskeeps, hmm? :p	00:07
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Stskeeps	what's the difference between ubuntu zenity and maemo zenity?	00:07
qwerty12_N800	not a lot, I packaged it into separate packages, removed the code that uses libgnomecanvas (it's only used on about screen anyway) to remove the gnomecanvas dep	00:08
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, I think to think a little. :P	00:08
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: a-what? :P	00:08
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GeneralAntilles	Artistic	00:09
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Stskeeps	ah	00:09
GeneralAntilles	I had offered to do the icons for adv-connectivity	00:09
Shadow_M	Sts	00:09
Stskeeps	Shadow_M: ?	00:10
Shadow_M	sorry trying to figure out auto complete	00:10
Shadow_M	on xchat	00:10
Stskeeps	ah	00:10
johnx	GeneralAntilles, woo! that would be awesome	00:11
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Stskeeps	yeah, nm-applet needs a dire replacement of icons :P	00:12
johnx	yay! dire icons!	00:12
johnx	wait...	00:12
johnx	dire-icon-theme :)	00:12
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, what should I base them on?	00:12
GeneralAntilles	Echo?	00:12
johnx	well, that's a good question	00:13
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: it really depends on how close to nokia icons we dare to be..	00:13
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GeneralAntilles	adv-backlight is based on Echo	00:13
RST38h	what is the license for Nokia icons?	00:14
Stskeeps	there's actually a whole chapter on that in licensing, i think	00:14
Stskeeps	in the EULA for downloading firmware images	00:14
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* Stskeeps pats the splash screen		00:15
Stskeeps	(which has a double meaning since a wallpaper of water..)	00:16
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disq	my package passed the autobuilder last night but still not in the respective repository dir, any idea what's going on? the dir seems to be created but is empty	00:16
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, well, I'm not sure I'm up for more than a derivative. ;)	00:17
Stskeeps	johnx: first try didn't work but then again it wasn't a fresh image	00:18
johnx	Stskeeps, build what now? gconf?	00:18
Stskeeps	johnx: well it brought in your first-boot-wizard too so	00:19
Stskeeps	and zenity	00:19
Stskeeps	checking fs	00:20
Shadow_M	anyone use nick autocompletion on xchat	00:21
wazd	~RST38h	00:22
wazd	oh, how to see last online time?)	00:22
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GeneralAntilles	~seen RST38h	00:22
johnx	~seen wazd	00:22
infobot	rst38h is currently on #maemo (5d 10h 47m 29s). Has said a total of 1030 messages. Is idling for 8m 38s, last said: 'what is the license for Nokia icons?'.	00:22
infobot	wazd is currently on #maemo (6m 42s). Has said a total of 2 messages. Is idling for 11s, last said: 'oh, how to see last online time?)'.	00:22
wazd	oh, you're here)	00:22
GeneralAntilles	wazd, tab-completion is a good way to find out. ;)	00:23
wazd	thanks anyway :)	00:23
GeneralAntilles	RST<tab>	00:23
RST38h	wazd: dcc pending	00:23
wazd	RST38h: yep, it was banned for acception somehow	00:23
Stskeeps	johnx: btw, change plankton to default	00:23
wazd	RST38h: can you e-mail it?	00:23
RST38h	wazd: give me an email address, no problem	00:23
wazd	RST38h: drew.zhilin@gmail.com	00:24
RST38h	no an- ?	00:24
Shadow_M	i know to use tab but i mean auto nick completion on the maemo xchat	00:24
johnx	Stskeeps, hmm?	00:24
Stskeeps	johnx: in first-boot-wizard.sh	00:24
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johnx	ah, alright, got it	00:24
wazd	RST38h: yep, some bastard already got my name(	00:25
Corsac	hmhm, and is there an us-intl keymap on maemo 4?	00:25
RST38h	sent	00:25
wazd	RST38h: I need to make some homepage since I bought nice domain zhil.in :)	00:25
RST38h	umgh	00:26
RST38h	too bad there is no .ok top domain	00:26
johnx	RST38h, wait til Oklahoma secedes?	00:26
* qwerty12_N800 wishes that the rules weren't so strict on co.ck :(		00:26
RST38h	johnx: I almost feel like hastening the events...	00:27
Stskeeps	johnx: is xinit standard btw?	00:29
johnx	Stskeeps, part of startx I think	00:29
Stskeeps	hm	00:29
RST38h	it is standard for x11	00:29
johnx	and in fact can be installed without an x server :)	00:30
* Stskeeps wonders why the wizard isn't run		00:30
johnx	wait, so you have a zenity for armel built?	00:31
Stskeeps	just used the gnome one	00:31
Stskeeps	i had NM-applet in anyway	00:31
Stskeeps	which brings in gweather and other friendly libraries	00:31
johnx	so were you already using auto-startx?	00:31
Stskeeps	yeah, but i removed etc/default/autologin	00:31
johnx	well then I don't know, I didn't really test the versions that I sent to the builder	00:32
Stskeeps	k	00:32
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GeneralAntilles	lol, you guys are ridiculous with that cohesive community thread	00:34
GeneralAntilles	Completely insistent on turning it around into a blame Nokia festival instead of looking at where we could be improving our community.	00:34
* Stskeeps hasn't been participating :)		00:34
Jaffa	Yup	00:34
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: post coming on this subject	00:35
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lardman\|home	Do I qualify as ridiculous? :)	00:35
lardman\|home	and I'm talking about the thread, no random abuse please! ;)	00:35
GeneralAntilles	lardman\|home, it's OK, you're always ridiculous. :P	00:35
lardman\|home	yep, there it was :D	00:35
GeneralAntilles	Too late! :P	00:36
johnx	GeneralAntilles, the reality is that people don't want to start (potentially) dead-end projects, so we're in limbo right now	00:36
GeneralAntilles	johnx, which is fine, but he's not asking for new projects. :)	00:36
* RST38h sees nothing wrong in blaming Nokia, especially after Quim kinda bit the bullet		00:37
wazd	Jaffa: well, I agree that there should be more details, but bubbles looks silly :)	00:37
GeneralAntilles	I think the shirt/hat concept goes over people's heads too often.	00:37
Jaffa	wazd: pfft, it's the sea, it should be something wattery at least.	00:37
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wazd	Jaffa: I was thinking bout some plants (and bubbles then :)	00:38
Stskeeps	fish!	00:38
Stskeeps	someone really needs to make an aquarium screensaver..	00:38
Jaffa	Subtle, outline fish type things	00:38
RST38h	octopuses! more octopuses!	00:38
johnx	GeneralAntilles, but contributing to old Nokia projects is agrivating, and contributing to diablo projects that might not be relevant in 6 months is depressing	00:38
* Jaffa throws his petrol on the fire of the "cohesive community" thread		00:38
GeneralAntilles	johnx, THIS IS NOT ABOUT NOKIA.	00:38
* RST38h tries to figure out what would be the plural from "octopus"		00:38
Jaffa	johnx: It's nothing to do with Nokia, diablo or Fremantle.	00:39
wazd	octopuses :)	00:39
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, we decided on a Nokia shark. ;)	00:39
Jaffa	johnx: If you're active and supporting a project, the author's more likely to carry it on into whatever changes fremantle and harmattan bring. The app will get better. The developer will get a discount.	00:39
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Stskeeps	a nokia tire laying on the bottom..	00:39
RST38h	aaaaaargh	00:40
wazd	Stskeeps: since there's no bottom...	00:40
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: reminds me of http://bleb.org/software/maemo/finding-maemo2.jpg	00:40
RST38h	octopus has three plural forms: octopuses, octopi, octopodes	00:40
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GeneralAntilles	johnx, this doesn't really have anything to do with the Fremantle transition, either, as it's a problem that existed at OS2008's peak.	00:40
Stskeeps	Jaffa: i find it elegant how you mixed these two topics	00:40
GeneralAntilles	johnx, blaming it on the limbo situation just smells of a weak temporary excuse.	00:41
johnx	GeneralAntilles, then the "problem" is we have a lot of users and not many devs	00:41
GeneralAntilles	Another poor excuse	00:41
Jaffa	johnx: Devs need testers. Bug triagers. Documentation writers. Feedback. Suggestions.	00:41
GeneralAntilles	Since users are perfectly capable of contributing in their own ways	00:41
Jaffa	what he said ^^^	00:41
GeneralAntilles	As qgil said, coding isn't the only answer.	00:41
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johnx	s/devs/motivated people/	00:42
infobot	johnx meant: GeneralAntilles, then the "problem" is we have a lot of users and not many motivated people	00:42
lardman\|home	yeah, but devs have only so much time to write new and cool apps	00:42
* Jaffa ponders turning http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=256991&postcount=54 into a blog post.		00:42
wazd	I like contributing to software, no matter what age it is :)	00:42
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GeneralAntilles	johnx, fair enough, we do lack motivated people, but part of qgil's purpose was to come up with ways to get people motivated!	00:42
Jaffa	lardman\|home: we've got loads of stagnant (developer thinks no-one uses it) and poor quality (no-one's testing it and encouraging the dev) apps	00:42
johnx	I guess when I think "devs" I tend to included anyone helping a project "develop"	00:42
wazd	Since I wont get anything monetary, I'm doing it for pleasure and skill :)	00:42
GeneralAntilles	wazd, apply for the discount program. :P	00:43
johnx	GeneralAntilles, it doesn't work like that. What we need is to get people who are motivated excited about maemo	00:43
wazd	General: for what?)	00:43
Stskeeps	recovering maemoholics	00:43
johnx	GeneralAntilles, right now maemo is a cushy user platform, but it's not all that attractive as a dev platform	00:43
GeneralAntilles	wazd, remember the discount program for the 770, N800 an N810?	00:44
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: maybe an incentive could be on-going discount program	00:44
Stskeeps	i mean, i own a n800, but occasionally a n810 would be good to develop for	00:44
Stskeeps	(i know i can get it through other sources)	00:44
GeneralAntilles	http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/announce/13873	00:44
wazd	General: actualy no)	00:44
lardman\|home	Jaffa: of course, and if we had more devs more of these apps would get some love as peoples' interests would overlap more	00:44
RST38h	no discount will solve the problem if you abandon the system after 6-8 months	00:44
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, I'm not talking about it solving any problems. :rolleyes:	00:45
lardman\|home	RST38h: well that's only a problem now that we know something better is around the corner, I think that's the real issue here	00:45
GeneralAntilles	I'm recommending that wazd should seek his monetary incentive by applying for one when the new program (hopefully) opens.	00:45
RST38h	lardman: guess, how long until Nokia moves on from Fremantle?	00:45
wazd	GeneralAntilles: whoa, pretty nice! But useless in Russia since we haven't got Nokia online shop :)	00:45
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GeneralAntilles	RST38h, presumably about as long as it took them to move on from OMAP2	00:46
GeneralAntilles	2 years	00:46
RST38h	wazd: that is solvable	00:46
johnx	GeneralAntilles, you're forgetting an API break in the midle	00:46
RST38h	wazd: order to us, then ask someone to bring it back	00:46
GeneralAntilles	I know their strategy is moving towards more stable development.	00:46
RST38h	General: johnx is right, there is an API break planned somewhere on the road to harmattan	00:47
lardman\|home	api break isn't as bad (imho) as a hardware leap in terms of motivation right now	00:47
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RST38h	lardman: actually, for application guys this should not matter much	00:47
johnx	and it doesn't even matter if it's "planned" or if it's only something devs worry about when they decide how to spend their time	00:47
RST38h	lardman: but it is absolutely killing systems guys	00:48
wazd	Well, API break wasn't that bad as I remember OMWeather developement :)	00:48
lardman\|home	true, the issue there is not quite knowing what will be in Fremantle and not wanting to create something that will be in there	00:48
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: has bounty work been considered?	00:48
Stskeeps	it might float slightly better in these economical times	00:48
lardman\|home	RST38h: well I can quite happily hack at systems stuff, but I agree I can't really plan for the next platform yet	00:48
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lardman\|home	I don't see money as being the problem here really	00:49
lardman\|home	in fact the only issue I have is a lack of time (it being the start of the year and all) and some vague motivational factors as I want to see new hw (but these are pretty vague, there's still plenty to do on the current platform)	00:50
johnx	let's try this: There are a lot of little things that can be improved to motivate current potential devs/testers/doc writers. It's not one big problem	00:50
johnx	we're all talking about the problem we each see as the biggest	00:50
lcuk	why cant we write stuff that works on everything	00:51
johnx	lcuk, exactly!	00:51
johnx	lcuk, and that's Mer, right there.	00:51
RST38h	lcuk: We can, with applications	00:51
lcuk	what cant you do?	00:52
RST38h	lcuk: Systems stuff is very sensitive to hardware and the low level software	00:52
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Stskeeps	there isn't that much systems stuff in maemo, honestly..	00:52
lcuk	like what?	00:52
Stskeeps	it's mostly systemui and ke-recv magic	00:52
lcuk	camera is gstreamer	00:52
lcuk	screen is screen	00:52
lcuk	x is x	00:52
RST38h	lcuk: Screen depth may change	00:53
lcuk	and?	00:53
RST38h	lcuk: Audio API may change. Camera API and resolution may change.	00:53
lcuk	video modes exist	00:53
lcuk	gstreamer	00:53
Stskeeps	RST38h: audio api is changing, they announced already :P	00:53
RST38h	lcuk: DSP will change (lardman's work goes to nil)	00:53
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lcuk	granted, but also expected	00:53
johnx	but it's esound -> pulseaudio. not much of a change	00:53
lcuk	can look at the beagle progress	00:53
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, striking a nerve probably cuts right to the heart of it.	00:53
RST38h	lcuk: video modes do not always exist. in fact, with these arm systems there is usually one mode only	00:54
Shadow_M	anyone here use chat on a n810	00:54
lcuk	RST38h, why would you think there will be much less than now?	00:54
lardman\|home	RST38h: re dsp stuff, that's fine, I'm sure I can write something else to use it	00:54
RST38h	lcuk: not much less, different	00:54
RST38h	lcuk: imagine Nokia taking away your YUV mode support	00:54
lardman\|home	about this rss reader, are people actually interested in it? I'd like a better one, but it's way down my list of things to do	00:55
lcuk	yeah - ive taken the core of liqbase - everything screen graphics events and have them in x86	00:55
b-man	Shadow_M: i'm chatting with my N800 right now :)	00:55
lcuk	RST38h, i have been reading problems with xv on the beagle	00:55
RST38h	lardman: I am using Google Reader in iPhone mode	00:55
lcuk	i know there may be issues	00:55
lcuk	but that will not stop me from working	00:55
RST38h	lardman: it is way better than Nokia's abomination	00:55
Stskeeps	johnx: my bad @ the error	00:55
Shadow_M	b-man do you use auto nick completion	00:55
lcuk	lardman\|home, ive got a base example :)	00:55
RST38h	lcuk: but why work now if nobody will need it?	00:55
Shadow_M	i dont see how it works	00:55
johnx	Stskeeps, ah, what was it?	00:56
lcuk	I need it	00:56
lcuk	me	00:56
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Stskeeps	johnx: dpkg-deb of xserver-xomap as a user..	00:56
RST38h	lcuk: Then you are a special case :)	00:56
lcuk	maybe i am :)	00:56
RST38h	Anyways, I definitely have to go get some sleep.	00:56
RST38h	1:56	00:56
b-man	Shadow_M: no, i don't think i do	00:56
lcuk	RST38h, just because today we are getting nice omap3, the omap2 cpu will continue	00:56
Shadow_M	because there is an option b-man to use it without tab	00:57
lcuk	there will be devices still using these chips for however long in the future	00:57
RST38h	lcuk: Once you get omap3 in your hands, I will see whether you will want to continue with omap2 ;)	00:57
RST38h	ho ho ho ho ho	00:57
lcuk	thats fine, ive always said i will move on eventually	00:57
lcuk	but i want as much in place for when i do	00:57
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GeneralAntilles	lcuk's gonna drop OMAP2 like a ton of bricks.	00:57
b-man	Shadow_M: tab?	00:57
lcuk	ive got a 1.6ghz touchscreen laptop here that runs like shit off a shovel	00:58
lcuk	sometimes lads working in a constrained environment is rewarding	00:58
Shadow_M	without using tab because you have to hit chr then tab to us tab b-man	00:58
lcuk	i aim to have the most power efficient/fastest implementation of stuff i can achieve	00:58
GeneralAntilles	Every lcuk application for OMAP3 is going to have an incredibly detailed 3D animation of lcuk flying around with his RX-51 in the background.	00:58
mavhc	going "weeeeeeeeeeeeeeee" in stereo	00:58
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lcuk	why though? the user does not get optimum experience if i fatten up	00:59
\|\|cw	andiwaslikeweeeeeeee!	00:59
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lcuk	ive always coded for lowest common denom	00:59
\|\|cw	lcuk: easter-egg	00:59
lcuk	and as i build this it gets easier :)	00:59
mavhc	lcuk: and when did you stop writing windows apps?	00:59
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, because OMAP3 kicks OMAP2's ass so freaking hard. :P	00:59
lcuk	mavhc, i still do	00:59
Stskeeps	johnx: hehe, this is disturbing :) dialog box coming up on top of console	01:00
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, cpu power does not equate to a good system	01:00
Stskeeps	i still seem to have hildon-input-method problems, curious	01:00
johnx	Stskeeps, :D it didn't do a screen update	01:00
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johnx	as for hildon-input-method, it worked for me earlier, but that was before hildon-desktop breakage and repair	01:01
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Stskeeps	johnx: heh, imagine how crazy you would have become if you had continued down debian-beta2 path..	01:02
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johnx	Stskeeps, beta2/beta3 you mean? yeah. n800 needs too much custom stuff. On the zaurus "debian customization" was done in a couple packages :/	01:03
yigal	I just installed usbcontrol should I be able to use pretty much any standard usb keyboard?	01:03
johnx	yigal, as long as it doesn't take too much power	01:04
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Shadow_M	b-man do you see the option	01:06
Stskeeps	johnx: http://rafb.net/p/SDzNWq40.html	01:06
Stskeeps	output of first-boot-wizard	01:06
lcuk	mavhc, i have it in my head that if you build from strong basic foundations anything is possible	01:06
Stskeeps	i wonder if it's just cos my h-d configuration is shot or something	01:06
Stskeeps	er	01:06
Stskeeps	h-i-m	01:07
Stskeeps	i think i'll run an imager tonight	01:07
Stskeeps	and see if it helps	01:07
johnx	huh. never saw that before. I can firmly say: not my fault :)	01:07
Stskeeps	hehe	01:07
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b-man	Shadow_M: yes	01:08
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, how long till i can flying around my room?	01:09
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, depends on if Nokia ships that cool new anti-grav technology they've been keeping from us.	01:09
Shadow_M	b-man does it work for you how do you initialize it without tab	01:10
* Jaffa beds after changing a stinky nappy		01:10
lcuk	they shipped me that last year	01:10
lcuk	ewww jaffa gnite	01:10
Jaffa	g'night	01:11
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mavhc	let's just hope he has a baby	01:17
lcuk	heh	01:17
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lardman\|home	mavhc: he does don't worry, and a new one at that	01:18
* b-man is a little confused atm		01:18
lcuk	lardman\|home, the problem i see with the rss reader type app is if hildon desktop remains	01:19
mavhc	well remember the first rules of babies: don't sell them	01:19
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lcuk	im sure theres others	01:19
Stskeeps	mavhc: no, that's second rule.. first rule is remember to feed them	01:19
Stskeeps	that's the principle of tamogotchi	01:20
b-man	lol	01:20
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lcuk	note: babies do not eat bacon butties for at least 3 months	01:20
Corsac	what about tamagotchies?	01:20
lcuk	are they edible?	01:21
b-man	Stskeeps: tamogotchi?..... lol	01:22
mavhc	I'm sure babies will try to eat tamogotchies	01:22
yigal	do most standard usb keyboards fit into the max. current, 200mA, provided by an n800?	01:24
lcuk	pssst, the max is 100	01:25
yigal	oh :(	01:25
lcuk	that might explain why its not working ;)	01:25
lcuk	check the label on the underside of the kb, it normally tells you rating	01:26
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yigal	ok, have to find one as my laptop died on me and I need something to write on.	01:27
lcuk	if you have a powered hub i believe it works through it	01:27
lardman\|home	lcuk: yeah, there are a number of issues with the rss reader, though I imagine there will be a desktop + applets of some form	01:27
lcuk	yeah but depending on the api it may well not fit	01:28
yigal	lcuk: that's a good idea!	01:28
lcuk	:)	01:28
GeneralAntilles	lardman\|home, you should start to work on the Downloads integration for h-a-m. :P	01:28
lcuk	lardman\|home, of course the backend can be completed easily	01:28
wazd	h-a-m = ? app manager?	01:29
lcuk	yeah, its being replaced by b-a-c-o-n	01:29
wazd	what's h?)	01:29
yigal	lcuk: thanks, off to get a keyboard, best	01:29
lcuk	hildon	01:30
lardman\|home	GeneralAntilles: yes, good point, I want to get the barcode app working first though	01:30
wazd	oh)	01:30
lardman\|home	wazd: h=hildon	01:30
* lcuk still has a button waiting on the camera screen		01:30
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GeneralAntilles	lardman\|home, we need barcodes for Extras applications!	01:30
wazd	p-o-r-k is better :) More global :D	01:30
lardman\|home	yeah there's an idea, no install files, use barcodes instead	01:30
GeneralAntilles	Then you can hand that one other Maemo user you've ever encountered a business card for your app. :P	01:31
lardman\|home	lol	01:31
GeneralAntilles	Actually, though, that might be kinda cool for tradeshows and Summits.	01:31
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, i think holly is a bit pissed off with lardman giving her business cards	01:31
GeneralAntilles	Scannable barcode that'll take you to the Downloads entry in h-a-m.	01:31
GeneralAntilles	I'd be pissed if lardman\|home gave me business cards, too.	01:32
wazd	whoa, PS even saves the layer that was selected	01:32
wazd	never noticed that before	01:32
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lardman\|home	GeneralAntilles: well if you pay for the beer and the flight I'll come over and give you a business card :)	01:33
lardman\|home	ah pissed-off, of course ;)	01:33
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	01:33
lardman\|home	right, time for bed	01:33
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lardman\|home	night all	01:33
* GeneralAntilles can just imagine lardman\|home knocking on my door, handing me a card, then leaving.		01:33
GeneralAntilles	night	01:34
lcuk	gnite lardman\|home	01:34
lcuk	wow!	01:34
lardman\|home	no, he'd demand the beer too! :)	01:34
lardman\|home	bye chaps	01:34
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GeneralAntilles	Ha http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/12/vaio-p-doesnt-have-nothin-on-these-other-awesome-pocket-friend/#continued	01:35
johnx	win :)	01:37
johnx	so what kind of market is there for something that "almost looks pocketable but really isn't"	01:38
johnx	is this a big new trend? is Nokia missing out by having a small pocketable tablet?	01:38
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	01:41
wazd	johnx: It's actually pocketable, it's just not pulled down	01:41
GeneralAntilles	thoughtfix seems to be continually drifting away from Maemo.	01:43
mavhc	yeah, I'll leave my $1000 laptop sticking out of my pocket	01:45
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Stskeeps	okay. a kid screaming next door and crying the night before an exam is always the best.	01:46
GeneralAntilles	mavhc, somebody should Photoshop a "steal me" post-it for it.	01:46
johnx	Stskeeps, I could post up a zenity deb I built natively if you want to try it. any interest?	01:46
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, go pop him in the mouth.	01:46
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: her :/	01:46
GeneralAntilles	Even better! :P	01:47
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Stskeeps	johnx: yeah, but for now gnomecanvas one is ok	01:47
johnx	Stskeeps, ah, well they're up in my $HOME on trac.tspre.org	01:48
Stskeeps	i got it to show earlier	01:48
Stskeeps	alright	01:48
johnx	really gonna get some sleep now	01:48
johnx	'night all	01:48
wazd	'night	01:48
b-man	g'night	01:48
Stskeeps	nini	01:49
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b-man	(random information) - I hacked up an rc helocopter >:) ; http://imagebin.ca/view/vbYp5Md.html ; http://imagebin.ca/view/AZruSA1.html ; http://imagebin.ca/view/F0wyNXv4.html - sorry the images look like crap, i used my N800 for pictures :p	01:55
Stskeeps	does it run Mer?	01:58
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b-man	lol	02:04
* b-man will be back, got to eat dinner		02:10
b-man	i'm back	02:10
Stskeeps	.. already?	02:10
b-man	yep, i eat fast	02:11
b-man	two bowls of spegettie* :p	02:11
wazd	http://s44.radikal.ru/i106/0901/d1/21eb06960d63.jpg - is that totaly crappy concept?)	02:12
soap	pretty coral	02:12
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* b-man starts to crack up from thinking about the look on Stskeeps face from telling him that. XD		02:13
Stskeeps	wazd: hehe, but kinda cool	02:14
Stskeeps	b-man: teenagers..	02:14
b-man	lol	02:14
Stskeeps	wazd: is that a Nokia tire covered in corals I see on the bottom? :>	02:15
wazd	Stskeeps: damn, I thought I've covered it enough :P	02:16
GeneralAntilles	wazd, the burning looks like an evil miasma coming up from Nokia's tire. :P	02:17
GeneralAntilles	Rather than seaweed.	02:17
GeneralAntilles	wazd, overall I'm not sure. It's less clean than the original	02:17
GeneralAntilles	But the concept is nice	02:18
GeneralAntilles	It needs more depth either way.	02:18
wazd	The best solution will be to leave it alone)	02:18
wazd	More details will ruin it whatever they are	02:19
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wazd	bubbles, seaweed or nokia tires :)	02:19
Stskeeps	wazd: screen saver could be background image becoming alive and fish swimming around.. ;>	02:19
wazd	Stskeeps: dreams dreams :)	02:20
Stskeeps	honestly though	02:20
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	02:20
Stskeeps	my gf has a nokia phone	02:20
Stskeeps	it has a screensaver and i rarely see the phone -actually- turn off display	02:20
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, funnily enough, with the platforms Mer may end up on, we may actually need a screensaver!	02:20
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: TV fireplace..	02:21
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, backlight's off, though?	02:21
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: or dim	02:21
Stskeeps	the screensaver is still visible	02:21
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, transflective	02:21
Stskeeps	it has pretty good battery life though	02:21
GeneralAntilles	My old 6682 is the same way	02:21
GeneralAntilles	I don't think it takes much power to leave the display on with on backlight.	02:21
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: one thing that could be useful to ask Nokia for.. powertop like thing	02:22
wazd	I think the best screensaver in the world is black screen with white clock :)	02:22
GeneralAntilles	wazd, or the opposite, depending on your display.	02:23
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lcuk	wazd :) thats my current one	02:51
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churl	greetings all	02:58
bef0rd	hi churl	02:59
churl	can anyone help me with a few basic questions on using vnc viewer into my ubuntu	03:00
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churl	yo bef0rd	03:05
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, ive added something to that page on the wiki (the discussion page)	03:05
bef0rd	ch4os, just ask	03:06
bef0rd	errhm	03:06
bef0rd	churl	03:06
churl	:)	03:07
churl	i guess, in a perfect working world, what would i need installed, and what would i run on the command line?	03:07
bef0rd	You need to enable remote desktop in ubuntu	03:08
bef0rd	System -> Preferences -> Remote desktop	03:08
bef0rd	'Allow other users to view your desktop' and 'Allow other users to control your desktop'	03:10
churl	im pretty sure it's enabled, but i cant find it again (using xfce)	03:10
bef0rd	for security reasons, enable 'require a password..'	03:10
bef0rd	I think its called vino-preferences	03:10
bef0rd	let me check	03:10
bef0rd	yea, that's it	03:10
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churl	i think it's under login window preferences	03:11
churl	allow remote system administrator login	03:12
bef0rd	no, that's something else	03:12
churl	not seeing any vino	03:12
bef0rd	try running vino-preferences from the terminal	03:12
churl	k	03:12
churl	not installed (ubuntu 8.10)	03:13
churl	do i need it?	03:13
bef0rd	yes	03:13
bef0rd	http://www.samlesher.com/ubuntu/remote-desktop-vnc-access-on-xubuntu-xfce-810/	03:14
churl	k	03:15
churl	neat, ill try to go through this site bef0rd	03:15
bef0rd	just install vino, then you should be able to connect with your tablet using vnc viewer	03:15
churl	not working... reading on..	03:17
churl	oh	03:17
churl	autostart it	03:18
churl	is vino server an app?	03:20
bef0rd	yes	03:20
churl	you'd think so	03:21
churl	i only get vino-passwd and vino-preferences	03:21
bef0rd	use the full path, /usr/lib/vino/vino-server	03:21
churl	:)	03:21
churl	HOLY BUCKETS!	03:22
churl	i really wish i would have googled xfce in my searches	03:23
churl	this wouldnt have taken me hours and hours and days and days	03:23
churl	again, i love you all	03:23
bef0rd	hehe	03:23
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Tales	what gives, I don't even have any apps open and the internal memory card is "still in use"	03:47
GeneralAntilles	Swap?	03:47
Tales	You're right.	03:48
Tales	"Unable to remove virtual memory."	03:48
b-man	have you tryed re-booting?	03:53
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b-man	that works for me :)	03:54
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churl	i think ill do the same! bye now!	03:54
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Tales	Yup,, I rebooted and that worked for me.	04:19
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AFBN810	whats latest version of maemo	04:52
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AFBN810	anyone around	05:22
Tales	Hey	05:25
Tales	Latest release version of maemo is 4.1 'diablo' I think	05:25
Tales	It's what I'm running on my N810.	05:25
GeneralAntilles	5.2008.43-7	05:25
Tales	Right.	05:25
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AFBN810	how long it been out I still got 35-7	05:30
GeneralAntilles	AFBN810, 43 is the week number	05:33
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infobot	Sargun: Have you had your vi today?	05:33
Sargun	infobot, die	05:34
* infobot takes two shots to the head and crumples to the ground, lifeless.		05:34
GeneralAntilles	AFBN810, about a month, though.	05:34
GeneralAntilles	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Maemo_(operating_system)#Release_history	05:35
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AFBN810	I though os updates showed up in app manager	05:46
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GeneralAntilles	AFBN810, they do.	05:47
GeneralAntilles	~ssu	05:47
infobot	somebody said ssu was http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU	05:47
GeneralAntilles	See the troubleshooting	05:47
AFBN810	wonder why I don't see it	05:47
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ciroip	someone with python and 5 minutes free to test how I can make hildon sound a wav?	06:17
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Macer	holy shit tropic thunder is a fucking riot	06:30
doc\|home	lame	06:31
Macer	you think? i think it's pretty fucking funny	06:31
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doc\|home	the webkit browser tear, is it like tear from your eye or tear paper?	06:49
doc\|home	ok, just saw logo. It's eye tear :)	06:49
Vulcanis	I'm still going to call it tear as in paper	06:51
doc\|home	hehe	06:51
CutMeOwnThroat	perhaps it's badly written tar	06:51
doc\|home	I'm going to call it tear as in a tear from my eye because it's not working :(	06:52
CutMeOwnThroat	dispose of it and you can call it tear as in tear paper	06:52
GeneralAntilles	doc\|home, try webkit-eal?	06:52
GeneralAntilles	doc\|home, https://garage.maemo.org/projects/webkit-eal/	06:53
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doc\|home	hmmm, ok	06:54
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doc\|home	GeneralAntilles: no difference, gtk_container_ad: assertion'GTK_IS_WIDGET (widget)' failed	07:04
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GeneralAntilles	Huh	07:06
GeneralAntilles	Restart?	07:06
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LopLiii	anyone using both 770 and 8x0?	07:06
doc\|home	ok	07:06
LopLiii	is performance of them is very far?	07:07
GeneralAntilles	LopLiii, N8x0 is way faster.	07:08
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doc\|home	GeneralAntilles: hmmm, no difference	07:12
GeneralAntilles	doc\|home, weird. . . .	07:13
LopLiii	thats weird	07:16
LopLiii	anyone using them both?	07:17
LopLiii	maybe to get a good bench is using mplayer to play some video	07:17
GeneralAntilles	Not really	07:18
GeneralAntilles	I have both	07:18
GeneralAntilles	N800 is so much faster.	07:18
GeneralAntilles	Browsing is worlds better.	07:19
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LopLiii	so0browsing is much faster and thus better on n800 but not much on multimedia perf. is that correct GeneralAntilles?	07:26
GeneralAntilles	Multimedia is a little better	07:27
LopLiii	If im not wrong you have too tried zaurus, hos that compared for performance and capabilty?	07:27
GeneralAntilles	LCD bandwidth is limited, so there's more overhead on the N8x0	07:28
GeneralAntilles	Haven't tried Zaurus	07:28
GeneralAntilles	But everybody I know who has says the tablets are waaay faster.	07:28
LopLiii	anybody want to comment bout this?	07:29
GeneralAntilles	The Zauruss are ould	07:29
GeneralAntilles	and the XScale just doesn't stack up against ARM11	07:29
LopLiii	so the z with pxa is behind omap?	07:30
GeneralAntilles	Waaay behind	07:30
LopLiii	someone told me , os200x is still using arm5 optimization for the code, any comment?	07:31
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GeneralAntilles	lies	07:33
GeneralAntilles	LopLiii, OS2005 and OS2006 are, because the 770 is ARM9	07:37
GeneralAntilles	But OS2007/OS2008 are armv6	07:37
LopLiii	thx for correct this	07:38
LopLiii	do you have any difficulty regarding of the performance of 770 and 8x0 while running emulator such palm and games?	07:40
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GeneralAntilles	N8x0 is way better	07:40
LopLiii	useful/playful ?	07:41
LopLiii	i mean so n8x0 will be usefull for that task?	07:41
LopLiii	i think palm will be emulated fast enough. But donk know bout game emulator?	07:42
LopLiii	Do you using tablets for reading a large pdf doc (size more than 40mb)? Is that opened and habdled properly (fast enough/usable)?	07:44
LopLiii	sory bout mistyped word, keyb is just too small	07:45
GeneralAntilles	Evince is fine for PDFs	07:47
GeneralAntilles	Game emulation is pretty good	07:47
GeneralAntilles	GBA and GB work great	07:47
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solmumaha	morning	07:50
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disco_stu	GeneralAntilles: hi	07:51
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GeneralAntilles	Hi, disco_st.	08:08
GeneralAntilles	s/./u/	08:08
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: Hi, disco_stu	08:08
GeneralAntilles	Check out the woot description this morning.	08:08
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disco_stu	Check out the woot description this morning. <-- did not understand	08:09
GeneralAntilles	disco_stu, http://www.woot.com/ They're satirizing twitter	08:10
disco_stu	i see.	08:11
disco_stu	i created my fisrt twitter account a few hours ago	08:11
disco_stu	i like it	08:11
disco_stu	im using mauku	08:11
LopLiii	hi have anybody use os2008he on 770, usable ? i mean with that not so fast system?	08:13
solmumaha	LopLiii: not that usable imo	08:14
GeneralAntilles	LopLiii, depends very much on your use-case.	08:15
solmumaha	and you shouldn't consider getting a 770	08:16
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LopLiii	yeah im offered 770 and 800 with price diff about 100usd so i need to make a wise decision :)	08:26
LopLiii	thanks god i can ask veterans here to gather a reliable answer	08:26
Proteous	when you see the 770 just RUN AWAY!!!	08:26
LopLiii	any answer to use n8x0 series as pdf ebook reader (large size with images)?	08:26
Proteous	NO QUESTIONS JUST RUN!!!	08:26
LopLiii	OK :)	08:26
Proteous	HEH	08:27
Proteous	er, heh	08:27
LopLiii	Im running now :)	08:27
Proteous	pdf == slow to render even on fast hardware	08:27
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LopLiii	will it load then ? some pda just wont load it up or have a proper handle to make it readable....	08:28
LopLiii	for large size ebook	08:28
Proteous	I've read PDFs on my old 770 before it WSODed	08:28
Proteous	was slow but it worked ine	08:29
Proteous	er, fine	08:29
Proteous	haven't tried it on my n810	08:29
Proteous	I wasn't loading multi hundered meg PDF files	08:29
Proteous	hundred	08:29
Proteous	man, me = !spell	08:29
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LopLiii	loading time is not to much concern ... but needs usable one ... and not that hundred megs .... only a half hundred :) ..... that command line is still not supported Proteus .... :) .. by me	08:32
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LopLiii	os1999 .... sory ....	08:33
LopLiii	using some damaged language pack .... so here i am :)	08:34
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Proteous	heh	08:37
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`Mace	yawn	09:45
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`Mace	hi	09:54
Meiz_n810	hi	09:54
Meiz_n810	keytool: error while loading shared libraries: libjli.so: cannot open shared object file: No such file or directory	09:54
Meiz_n810	how can i get libjli.so?	09:55
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aquatix	morning all	10:07
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Meiz_n810	morning	10:09
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pupnik	Children are pure evil. http://i39.tinypic.com/2d0jlma.jpg	10:19
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aquatix	rofl	10:21
aquatix	now there's a cute picture	10:21
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tank-man	awesome jpg heh	10:36
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pupnik	ok turns out she is a meme... http://www.buzzfeed.com/scott/disaster-girl	10:55
aquatix	grin	10:55
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pupnik	the beer truck disaster...	10:58
Macer	blah	11:01
Macer	i am watching babylon 5	11:01
* aquatix is at work		11:01
Macer	wow they just don't make good shows liket his anymore	11:01
aquatix	heh	11:01
Macer	season 4 was spectactular	11:02
Macer	season 5 was rather shitty	11:02
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* aquatix wants more time to watch serie		11:03
aquatix	*series	11:03
* mgedmin got bored and gave up early in season 5		11:10
RST38h	same here	11:11
RST38h	but I gave up much earlier	11:11
* aquatix never started		11:11
RST38h	don't	11:11
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pupnik	10:18 <@la**o> watching her [my girlfriend playing Crayon Physics] is like watching a monkey try to open a vault that has the combination painted right on the door.	11:28
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Proteous	lol	11:29
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Proteous	I watched all of babylon 5	11:30
Proteous	the crusades movies were shit though	11:30
X-Fade	wazd: ping?	11:30
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Jaffa	Morning	11:48
Jaffa	wazd: ping	11:48
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lardman	morning all	11:56
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RST38h	MOURNING, LARDMAN	11:56
RST38h	(sorry, caps was on)	11:57
lardman	:)	11:57
lardman	morning RST38h	11:57
pupnik	speaking of mourning, see the movie 'Harold and Maude'	11:57
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RST38h	is it mournful enough? lots of tragic deaths? cemeteries? rainy scenes?	12:01
lardman	fog too	12:01
lardman	in the graveyards	12:01
RST38h	maybe, just maybe, a few good panoramas of the total destruction of humanity?	12:02
RST38h	(please! we are all tired of watching those Independence Day scenes)	12:02
aquatix	lardman: not only on graveyards here	12:04
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RST38h	Well th emovie starts with a funeral so it should satisfy the requirements	12:17
pupnik	Hal Ashby was the director. Also did 'Being There' starring Peter Sellers	12:21
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RST38h	Hehe, Quim's thread continues its spectacular eruption	12:35
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t_s_o	http://www.microsoft.com/tag/ <- should one worry, or just ignore?	13:02
Jaffa	Aren't there already 20 variations of that idea already?	13:02
t_s_o	probably, and none will catch on...	13:03
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AStorm	yeah, it'd need major collaboration	13:08
AStorm	even M$ doesn't have enough power to do that	13:08
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GeneralAntilles	Seems like most people on Planet don't click through.	13:09
GeneralAntilles	My community highlights post (which is arguably the much juicier post) has significantly more hearts than the wiki articles post.	13:09
GeneralAntilles	Which is shown in full while the highlights post is abbreviated.	13:09
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Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: did you know ahead of time which was going to be abbreviated? Perhaps more of a content summary than an introduction in future on the summarised ones?	13:22
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, no, I'm sure it's a character count, but I don't know the number.	13:22
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GeneralAntilles	I'm also sure X-Fade could tell me.	13:22
GeneralAntilles	Or maybe the abbreviation could be less severe.	13:23
GeneralAntilles	I'm loath to change my writing style for a stupid feed aggregator. ;)	13:23
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X-Fade	Yesterday I changed the length of the article cut-off.	13:24
X-Fade	So maybe you see this?	13:24
X-Fade	On the planet it cuts of at 1000 words. The news page at something like 250 orso.	13:26
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, well, compare "Wiki articles you're missing out on" to "Community Highlights" http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/	13:26
wazd	Noon everybody)	13:27
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: 6 words above the cut off ;)	13:27
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, well, could we make the abbreviated posts less . . . abbreviated?	13:28
GeneralAntilles	If 1000 is the cutoff, then show 1000 words?	13:28
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: yes, the code now only takes the first paragraph if it is longer than the max number of words.	13:29
Jaffa	Or allow the abstract to be written separately	13:29
X-Fade	Which is easier to implement ;)	13:29
X-Fade	But it would be a lot better to count until the max word is reached and show every paragraph before that.	13:30
GeneralAntilles	I trimmed 6 words for the time being.	13:30
GeneralAntilles	You want an enhancement request?	13:30
X-Fade	Enhancement request or patch against: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/midgard-data/style/maemo2007/planet/index-item.php?revision=945&root=maemo2midgard :)	13:31
X-Fade	wazd: Are you limiting the number of chars of content in your feed by intent or because it is the default setting?	13:33
GeneralAntilles	Whose gonna nab bug #4000? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3999	13:35
GeneralAntilles	s/Whose/Who's/	13:35
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: Who's gonna nab bug #4000? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3999	13:35
aquatix	ooh	13:36
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lardman	hmm, looks like my Discussion karma has recovered a bit - I now have 38, but in comparison to my itt post karma (30) and indeed the itt thanks (133) do people think the weighting is a bit wrong?	13:45
* Jaffa only has 19 for ITT posts :-(		13:46
GeneralAntilles	Nah, we're just punishing you.	13:46
lardman	lol	13:46
lardman	well I think mailing list posts should have higher weighting than itt posts	13:46
GeneralAntilles	They do.	13:46
Jaffa	Agreed	13:46
GeneralAntilles	1 karma per	13:46
lardman	hmm, well the karma is still broken I imagine	13:47
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lardman	I think I've sent one or two more than 38 emails	13:47
lardman	back to the bug.....	13:47
X-Fade	lardman: .3 was released yesterday. And we are planning to upgrade asap.	13:47
X-Fade	Just need to plan a nice time for the outage ;)	13:48
lardman	ah ok, no worries	13:48
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Jaffa	X-Fade: is there a debug mode where you can see how your karma's been calculated (i.e. n maemo-* emails = ...)?	13:48
X-Fade	If it is still present after that upgrade, do complain :)	13:48
Jaffa	Might make it easier to game the system	13:48
Jaffa	+,tho	13:48
pupnik	"We now have the SGX video drivers in their entirety. We're just waiting for a few documents to come back signed and then we can release both the binary part and the open source driver shim to the public. Expect OpenGL ES demos soon."	13:48
X-Fade	Jaffa: Mails is 1 mail = 1 karma.	13:48
Jaffa	pupnik: ?	13:48
pupnik	pandy news	13:49
GeneralAntilles	Beagle/Pandora	13:49
lardman	pupnik: koen has already shown some opengl es demos on the beagleboard	13:49
Jaffa	Ah	13:49
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lardman	X-Fade: will do	13:50
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, I'm still truncated at 996 words. :(	13:50
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X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Updates only once per hour?	13:51
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, number gathered from planet.maemo.org	13:51
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Maybe it counts html as words too? :)	13:52
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johnx\|zaurus	hey StsN800 :)	13:52
X-Fade	Let me read the code..	13:52
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X-Fade	Ah, counting before html stripping ;)	13:53
StsN800	heya johnx	13:53
X-Fade	That should be an easy fix ;)	13:53
GeneralAntilles	lol	13:53
StsN800	bbl exam	13:54
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X-Fade	Hmm no it was stripping...	13:56
X-Fade	Ah, it deducts the words for the first paragraph from the total.	13:58
X-Fade	So you probably have about 1100 words in that article.	13:58
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GeneralAntilles	Ah, that was my original suspicion.	14:02
GeneralAntilles	But you threw me when I first brought it up. :P	14:02
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: notice the _more_ in that link ;)	14:02
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, Mr. 6 words above the cut off :P	14:02
X-Fade	But I agree that it needs to do a better job ;)	14:02
X-Fade	But 1000 is just an arbitrary limit _I_ set. It is open for discussion of course..	14:03
GeneralAntilles	1000 seems perfectly fine to me.	14:03
GeneralAntilles	The only thing that bothers me is how much is trimmed when that limit is breached. :P	14:04
X-Fade	Yes, that should be enhanced.	14:04
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* lcuk starts kung fu fighting		14:19
aquatix	o/` It was a little bit scaring o/`	14:20
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aquatix	*frightning	14:20
aquatix	dammit	14:20
* aquatix types too fast		14:20
* lcuk karate chops you		14:20
mgedmin	you strikes back	14:20
aquatix	you knocks lcuk flat out	14:21
lcuk	hiya marius	14:21
* lcuk swings nun chucks around trying to look tough until they clout him in the nuts		14:21
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lcuk	http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/01/13/0213238	14:22
aquatix	grin	14:22
lcuk	microsoft tag	14:22
aquatix	oh	14:23
aquatix	2004 called, they want their barcode back	14:23
aquatix	seriously, that has been done years ago	14:23
aquatix	those 2D ones	14:23
lcuk	heh	14:23
lcuk	but MS have leverage	14:23
aquatix	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QR_Code	14:23
aquatix	i think nokia tried it back then	14:24
aquatix	ah no	14:24
aquatix	it's japanese	14:24
aquatix	1994	14:24
lcuk	serious question: i have a library - if i wanted python bindings and stuff (as well as a completed api) where might i look and who would i be best to talk to	14:24
lcuk	aquatix, the barcode stuff might work in the winmobile phones	14:24
mgedmin	a C library, right?	14:24
lcuk	yeah	14:25
aquatix	lcuk: yeah, but it's nothing new	14:25
mgedmin	a quick and dirty option is ctypes	14:25
aquatix	they are doing it already	14:25
lcuk	marius, whats ctypes - does it just drag over the stuff?	14:25
lcuk	im looking for a bit of instant gratification, i wanna see if its possible to init and run libliqbase from python without any serious devkit	14:26
mgedmin	ctypes is a way to convert Python data types to C types and invoke C functions	14:26
mgedmin	with no safety belts	14:26
mgedmin	i..e. you pass an int instead of a char*, you get memory corruption you asked for	14:26
lcuk	ahhh no, this is the other way round, i have the c lib already	14:26
mgedmin	well, yes	14:26
mgedmin	ctypes is a python module that lets people quickly whip up something that looks like a python binding for a c lib	14:26
mgedmin	there are other bindings generators	14:27
mgedmin	like swig	14:27
mgedmin	I think pyrex/cython can also be used for that	14:27
mgedmin	I'm not very familiar with generating bindings	14:27
mgedmin	I'm more of a user of generated bindings ;)	14:27
lcuk	yeah mgedmin thats the thing, if i can create the bindings it gives you the option of using the lib which is at this point out of bounds	14:28
lcuk	binds	14:28
lcuk	bindings	14:28
lcuk	ffs	14:28
mgedmin	I think you must be using the phrase 'python bindings' in a way other than what it normally means	14:28
mgedmin	do you want python code to invoke your stuff	14:29
mgedmin	or do you want your stuff to be scriptable with python code?	14:29
lcuk	i dont know how to describe it, the whole library thing is new to me as well :$	14:29
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mgedmin	the first thing is bindings	14:29
mgedmin	the second one is embedding a python interpreter	14:29
lcuk	i want to be able to (in python) open_liqbase_window() load_picture() draw_pterry_stuff()	14:29
mgedmin	http://docs.python.org/c-api/index.html may help	14:29
mgedmin	then you want bindings	14:30
mgedmin	and you can build them with pyrex (or cython), or with swig, or with ctypes	14:30
mgedmin	ctypes is the simplest & quickest way, but it's not the "right" or "safe" way	14:30
lcuk	ok, ill do some investigation later then :) thanks	14:30
mgedmin	then there's the manual way of doing it in C, as described in http://docs.python.org/c-api/index.html	14:31
mgedmin	or maybe http://docs.python.org/extending/index.html#extending-index	14:31
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Andrewfblack	Morning	14:31
lcuk	heh starting to look like embedding python interpreter inside - i know thats a different issue	14:31
lcuk	(though i once did that with vbscript in one of my apps :) )	14:32
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X-Fade	lcuk: Looks familiar? http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/12/video-coder-whips-up-working-multitouch-demonstration-on-t-mobi/	14:39
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StsN800	phew, that exam over with	14:43
StsN800	waiting for grade	14:43
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StsN800	johnx, xchat on mer on zaurus?	14:44
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RST38h	Edinburgh librarians are apparently "seething" after the powers that be decided they should henceforth be known as audience development officers as part of a plan to drag libraries kicking and screaming into the 21st century	14:54
RST38h	Umgh	14:54
Andrewfblack	hey stsn800 you there	14:57
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Andrewfblack	StsN800 which minimize/close buttons do you like better for this theme? http://andrewblck.com/Stuff/ss1.png is the old http://andrewblck.com/Stuff/ss2.png is the new ones	15:00
lcuk	X-Fade, looks interesting, its using the synaptic pad code which is 1d, just ran over both axis, its very cube oriented and does not allow rotation in the way my testing does	15:02
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aquatix	Andrewfblack: the new ones look more consistent to the rest	15:02
aquatix	but i'm not too enthousiastic about the sharp arrow	15:03
X-Fade	lcuk: yeah, it is exactly the same thing we can do..	15:03
Andrewfblack	aquatix thanks for the input	15:03
lcuk	yeah - nnot a true solution (which is why i never pushed it) is it the fact its android that ppl are making a fuss of his?	15:04
X-Fade	lcuk: Multitouch is a nice marketing thing. Creates hype.	15:04
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RST38h	Andrew: why not made the arrow of the same elements you made the close button of?	15:05
aquatix	yeah	15:05
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, ZOMG TOO FINGRS!	15:05
aquatix	blunt points	15:05
RST38h	yep	15:05
lcuk	yeah of course, but its not though and because you have to be very mechanical and balanced in your use its not at all like the fruity things	15:05
aquatix	more like a v	15:06
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RST38h	if it becomes awkward, you can make it a downward pointing triangle	15:06
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wazd_hp	screw this :)	15:07
Andrewfblack	aquatix you guys talking about the menu icon arrow?	15:07
lcuk	anyway, shall read more later :)	15:07
RST38h	Andrew: no, the minimize arrow	15:07
* aquatix wasn't		15:07
aquatix	yeah, minimise	15:07
mxttie\|work	hi, is there somewhere on maemo.org a list of devices which run the maemo platform?	15:07
aquatix	the menu icon arrow is... weird	15:07
aquatix	it looks out of place	15:08
lcuk	RST38h, you are here, any chance you have an optimized 8bit bitmap rotation algo anywhere?	15:08
Andrewfblack	minimise arrow is same arrow as the scroll bar arrows just bigger	15:08
aquatix	Andrewfblack: i don't quite like those either :)	15:08
GeneralAntilles	mxttie\|work, 770, N800, N810, N810 WiMAX Edition	15:08
wazd_hp	http://i042.radikal.ru/0901/26/eea82b512f1d.jpg < some crazy insomnia stuff	15:08
aquatix	but smallish like them and with a circle they are ok	15:08
aquatix	wazd_hp: insomnia?	15:09
aquatix	nice font btw	15:09
aquatix	which is it?	15:09
Andrewfblack	lol I guess you wouldn't like the menu arrows either then whats wrong with them?	15:09
wazd_hp	aquatix: well, that was made at 5am so))	15:09
wazd_hp	aquatix: homebrew	15:09
mxttie\|work	GeneralAntilles: thanks. a lot less than I thought :) I then assume there isn't any list anywhere because it is just so short :)	15:10
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GeneralAntilles	mxttie\|work, it may expand at some point through unofficial support (some are working on Pandora support), but Nokia doesn't license it.	15:10
aquatix	Andrewfblack: not sure, i think they're a bit sharp	15:10
aquatix	oh, menu arrows	15:11
aquatix	erm	15:11
Andrewfblack	aquatix so you think some rounder arrows would match the theme better	15:11
aquatix	well, the menu arrow in the title bar looks out of place	15:11
mxttie\|work	GeneralAntilles: oh, ok. didn't realise it is nokia only	15:11
aquatix	Andrewfblack: i like the arrow in the gray circle in the middle, for example	15:12
aquatix	but that's almost a v	15:12
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aquatix	it can be filled a bit more, like the current ones	15:12
GeneralAntilles	mxttie\|work, personally, I don't agree with the decision and would like to see it positioned as the "de-facto" mobile Linux, but what can you do? ;)	15:12
Andrewfblack	aquatix you saying you like the arrow in the applet section better	15:14
wazd_hp	what arrow are you discussing guys?	15:14
Andrewfblack	http://andrewblck.com/Stuff/ss2.png	15:14
lcuk	RST38h, ill talk to you later	15:15
Andrewfblack	wazd_hp working on my Mer theme	15:15
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aquatix	Andrewfblack: yes	15:15
aquatix	the one from skype or something?	15:15
Andrewfblack	aquatix its the standard Nokia arrow thats why you like it so much lol	15:16
aquatix	i'm not a fan of too sharp arrows, or at least not how the minimise button is drawn now	15:16
wazd_hp	cross copied from x-chat s bad	15:16
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aquatix	Andrewfblack: nah, it's the other way around: they chose one that i like :)	15:16
wazd_hp	it's cropped at the bottom	15:16
aquatix	Andrewfblack: but maybe blunting the top 2 pieces of the sharp arrow will suffice	15:17
aquatix	you know what i mean?	15:17
Andrewfblack	wazd_hp cross is coppiedfrom xchat just simular also fixed cut off bottom allrady	15:17
wazd_hp	andrewfblack: good :)	15:18
wazd_hp	I think you should move left border of statusbar to the right	15:18
wazd_hp	so it would be same border as on the right	15:19
wazd_hp	now it';s way wider	15:19
Andrewfblack	wazd_hp ok	15:19
wazd_hp	And you should do minimize and close icons smaller, then it's block will have same padding as statusbar	15:20
aquatix	Andrewfblack: are we allowed to use Tango?	15:20
aquatix	or would you rather do something new	15:21
Andrewfblack	wazd_hp these are old minimize/close buttons liek them better? http://andrewblck.com/Stuff/ss1.png	15:21
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Andrewfblack	aquaatix Tango?	15:21
wazd_hp	Andrewfblack: well, it's standart photoshop arrows))	15:22
aquatix	Andrewfblack: the Tango icon project	15:22
aquatix	I rather like it	15:22
aquatix	almost every linux distro uses it nowadays	15:23
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Andrewfblack	wazd_hp yep I suck at drawning arrows always lop sided on one side	15:23
aquatix	ubuntu's Human is a variation on it I think	15:23
aquatix	Andrewfblack: yeah, the sharp arrow is slightly lopsided too right?	15:23
wazd_hp	Andrewfblack: I think minimize arrow should be the same size as the cross	15:23
* aquatix was modifying it		15:23
aquatix	wazd_hp: that too	15:23
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* aquatix fires up inkscape		15:24
Andrewfblack	Widest part of arrow is same as widest part of cross I beleave	15:25
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Stskeeps	hehe, it's nice to see so much theme cooperation :)	15:25
Andrewfblack	hey Stskeeps	15:25
wazd_hp	Stskeeps: I've made some "loading..." stuff for Mer, not sure you'll like it :)	15:26
RST38h	the arrow is seriously ugly, really	15:26
mxttie\|work	GeneralAntilles: hehe :) yeah, it looks very neat and certainly looks like an appealing candidate for general mobile linux. maybe one day in the future ;) (forgot to press enter =))	15:26
Andrewfblack	Anyone want to make new arrows for the theme?	15:26
Stskeeps	wazd_hp: hehe, we'll see :)	15:27
Stskeeps	wazd_hp: we can use ".ani" files too it seems like though	15:27
wazd_hp	http://i042.radikal.ru/0901/26/eea82b512f1d.jpg	15:27
GeneralAntilles	mxttie\|work, well, Ubuntu Mobile is using Hildon	15:27
GeneralAntilles	and the UI is really the most interesting part	15:27
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RST38h	wazd: that font...it is not from FreeRunner phone by any chance?	15:27
wazd_hp	RST38h: well, it was hand maded this night :)	15:28
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wazd_hp	RST38h: Haven't seen FreeRunner font actually :)	15:28
* aquatix sucks at arrows too		15:28
aquatix	but why not look at Tango stuff, for example?	15:28
mxttie\|work	GeneralAntilles: thanks for the tip. looks like I need to read up a bit	15:28
aquatix	there are a lot of icons already done	15:28
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aquatix	wazd_hp: i like the font	15:29
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aquatix	can i have it? :)	15:29
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wazd_hp	RST38h: Btw, your gameboy icon proves my point bout .svg icons for now :)	15:30
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wazd_hp	RST38h: they suck at detalization	15:30
aquatix	detalization?	15:30
wazd_hp	RST38h: pretty solid icon though, I had nothing to change)	15:30
aquatix	oh	15:31
wazd_hp	aquatix: level of details I mean :)	15:31
aquatix	yeah	15:31
aquatix	well	15:31
aquatix	you can put a lot of details in svg's :)	15:31
aquatix	but that'll make rendering slow i think	15:31
wazd_hp	aquatix: and nothing would render it :)	15:31
aquatix	the reason why most icons are png's are because they are rendered specifically for that size	15:32
aquatix	source is generally svg even	15:32
aquatix	if i read Tango's stories right :)	15:32
aquatix	you might want to contact Hylke Bons for example (http://www.bomahy.nl/hylke/blog/)	15:33
aquatix	did the pidgin icons too	15:33
wazd_hp	you can even do photorealistic graphics with straight hands like that http://neatorama.cachefly.net/images/2006-08/photorealistic-vector-art.jpg	15:33
Stskeeps	mxttie\|work: http://daimi.au.dk/~cvm/DSC00007.JPG <- Mer (+ hildon) on a x86 on a TV screen ;)	15:33
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aquatix	Stskeeps: :)	15:33
mxttie\|work	lol	15:33
aquatix	wazd_hp: nice	15:33
wazd_hp	but just showing that image in realtime would kill the CPU softly :)	15:34
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aquatix	depends on the cpu ;)	15:36
aquatix	but using svg on maemo might not work that nicely	15:36
aquatix	but for source files, it's fine	15:36
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wazd	http://www.bomahy.nl/hylke/blog - that designer definitely has 2 suns on his earth	15:38
aquatix	why?	15:39
aquatix	i only see a shadow coming from that setting sun	15:40
wazd	but the house itself is lighten from the other side	15:40
aquatix	but the house is lighted weirdly from `our' side indeed	15:40
wazd	sun is on the back, light is on the front	15:40
aquatix	yeah	15:41
aquatix	file a ticket ;)	15:41
Andrewfblack	maybe there is a street light you can't see in image	15:41
* aquatix sniggers from behind his large flashlight		15:41
wazd	Andrewfblack: or it's some crazy xenon flash :)	15:42
aquatix	heh :)	15:42
wazd	details are everything in our world :)	15:44
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* aquatix loves details		15:47
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RST38h	wazd: Ugly? Large? Slow to render?	15:53
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* Jaffa pfffts at texrat getting the hump at him.		15:55
wazd	whoa, my blog's QR code :) http://mojiq.kazina.com/temp/1231854901_22289.png	15:55
mgedmin	Jaffa: did you see my patch to mud-builder's vim.xml?	15:56
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, it's a day of strong emotions on itT.	15:56
wazd	RST38h: no, it's totaly fine but it too low-detailed to my mind	15:56
Jaffa	mgedmin: I did, indeed. Thanks. Haven't had a chance to apply it yet	15:57
wazd	RST38h: maybe I can make one icon for S60 and other for rendering?	15:57
Jaffa	Oh. Joy. Sv's stopped working (Intrepid issue?)	15:57
Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: I've got a lovely PM telling me off for making things personal.	15:58
GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, :roll:	15:58
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Jaffa	lo etrunko	15:59
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GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, drama city. I wonder if he's running on sleep deprivation. . . .	15:59
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Jaffa	GeneralAntilles: it's a fine excuse, I tell you :)	15:59
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GeneralAntilles	Jaffa, we should add a "[ ] Sleep deprived" checkbox to every post	16:00
AFB\|Away	I havn't goten to tell anyone off yet today	16:00
Jaffa	AFB\|Away: shout at me, I can take it	16:00
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X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Just a 20 second delay and then 'Are you still sure?'	16:01
Stskeeps	Jaffa: too sleep deprived to care? ;)	16:01
AFB\|Away	Jaffa To tired or I would	16:01
Jaffa	Stskeeps: most likely	16:01
Veggen	Oh, the sound of illusions breaking. Got a mail from a customer, Cc'ed to our new boss, who promptly asks "And this goes directly in mail, without being reported according to the correct process?"	16:01
RST38h	wazd: That is possible but Maemo alone requires three differently sized icons	16:01
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RST38h	wazd: and Windows is kinda color-limited when it comes to icons	16:02
wazd	RST38h: what I want is to do 2 different .svg's	16:03
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wazd	RST38h: less detailed and more detailed	16:04
RST38h	wazd: Fully detailed and simple?	16:04
RST38h	Yea, this will work	16:04
wazd	RST38h: good)	16:04
RST38h	Veggen: Wait until he starts implementing his policies...	16:04
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Veggen	Nah, she is the fourth boss I've had in this department. Noone has so far managed to change me ;P	16:05
Veggen	(or anyone, for that matter :)	16:06
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etrunko	hey Jaffa, GeneralAntilles, X-Fade	16:08
GeneralAntilles	Welcome back, etrunko. :P	16:09
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etrunko	already time	16:09
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* wazd wishes to be xhtml guru that codes mulibilliondollar startups in the notepad :(		16:13
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RST38h	Veggen: lemme guess, they all got fired after trying to implement proper email accounting policies and shutting down ALL communicaiton with customers?	16:15
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Veggen	RST38h: nah. The two first one got tired of being boss and ended up project leaders, the third one moved upwards.	16:16
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Veggen	RST38h: All of them have done a decent job, and at least not stopped us from doing our work :)	16:17
RST38h	Veggen: the last one is 90% of theyir job really	16:18
Veggen	Agreed.	16:19
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Veggen	but the former one was unable to do any sort of prioritizing. If we said we had two tasks that was gonna take the whole week, he'd say "ok. Then you need to finish first one in a half week, second one in the last half".	16:20
RST38h	hehe	16:20
RST38h	and two peopel should be able to finish it in half the time? :)	16:20
Veggen	A boss once, in an info-meeting, said, on talking about work moral etc., that he hoped we did do the boring tasks also.	16:21
Veggen	So I promptly raised my hand, and said "No, I don't".	16:21
Veggen	Him: "?!?"	16:21
Veggen	"No. Noone can tell me what is important, and I have more than enough to do. And if it's up to me to prioritize, I can and will choose the fun stuff"	16:22
Veggen	luckily, we don't have to have that much respect for authorities in this country.	16:23
Veggen	I once told my boss to hang up the phone and don't call again, ever!	16:24
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Stskeeps	oh thank god nokia	16:24
Stskeeps	some sanity	16:24
Stskeeps	https://stage.maemo.org/viewcvs.cgi/projects/haf/trunk/osso-af-startup/services/af-defines.sh?sortby=date&root=maemo&r1=17101&r2=17100&pathrev=17101	16:24
Stskeeps	store MyDocs on MMC	16:25
mgedmin	the internal one	16:25
mgedmin	hmm	16:25
mgedmin	my previous n810 periodically corrupted the internal mmc	16:25
mgedmin	I'm overjoyed knowing nokia thinks it's safe for my documents	16:25
RST38h	Veggen <--- basically aspiring to be fired with prejudice =)	16:25
Stskeeps	mgedmin: there's hints that it is a huge internal mmc, so	16:26
Veggen	RST38h: nah, he deserved it. He'd been calling me and bothering me with questions about whether or not I was gonna finish (as I had said I would), every half hour all day.	16:26
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RST38h	Veggen: "I promise you to finish before you quit!:	16:27
RST38h	Did you finish before he quit btw?	16:27
Veggen	RST38h: oh, I was finished by the day after, because he did actually not call me again that day, so that I was finally able to concentrate on the job :)	16:27
Jaffa	Stskeeps: I've already set MYDOCSDIR to /media/mmc2/MyDocs. No backup worries on reflash	16:28
RST38h	Jaffa: Is this sufficient for all the apps or should I symlink it instead ?	16:28
Jaffa	It's sufficient for everything which uses Hildon's file chooser.	16:29
Jaffa	There seems to be an odd side-effect that it no longer goes to the correct subcategory (e.g. Images when selecting File > Open in the Images app), but other than that, no problems.	16:30
RST38h	ah...but stuff like Maemo Mapper won't heed it...	16:30
Jaffa	If something has a hard-coded path to /home/user/MyDocs, it's a bug. If an existing config file references it, it'd need updating	16:31
GeneralAntilles	itt	16:32
GeneralAntilles	(stupid focus bugs)	16:32
GeneralAntilles	I wonder if the person s/Scratchbox/Sandbox/g is the same on both itT and the lists. <_<	16:32
Stskeeps	probably	16:32
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RST38h	troll?	16:34
Stskeeps	wazd: ever saw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h24f2YjzWBE btw?	16:34
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, no, I don't believe so. Probably just willfully ignorant. http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=257211	16:35
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RST38h	"willfully ignorant" is a good term	16:39
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wazd	Stskeeps: nope	16:43
Stskeeps	wazd: think it's a place that needs to be styled? i did it rather engineer like :) it's the place you go when you've messed up your tablet and want to go into safe mode, connect through USB; whatever ;)	16:43
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wazd	Stskeeps: well, maybe :)	16:44
wazd	Stskeeps: can it show a row menu to select items?	16:44
Stskeeps	wazd: well it's a rather simple script :)	16:45
Stskeeps	"row menu"?	16:45
wazd	Stskeeps: simple row of icons	16:45
Stskeeps	ah	16:45
wazd	Stskeeps: like canola or whatever)	16:45
wazd	Stskeeps: with same d-pad selection	16:46
Stskeeps	well the issue is that the thing i use for it is the same as splash screen, so it shows one image at a time :>	16:46
wazd	Stskeeps: Ah, that's even easier	16:46
wazd	Stskeeps: I have to just draw row and respective selections on it)	16:47
Stskeeps	ah	16:47
* Stskeeps wonders why the bloody hell hildon input method stopped working		16:47
wazd	Stskeeps: what options does this menu have?	16:48
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Stskeeps	wazd: right now, "Start Mer normally", "Activate console on framebuffer" "Act as a ethernet USB gadget with telnetd open" "Act as a serial USB gadget with shell" "Reboot"	16:49
Stskeeps	i just wonder if it even needs styling, since its pretty clear when you use it :P	16:50
Stskeeps	except it looks a bit 80s like :>	16:50
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wazd	Stskeeps: definitely yes :))	16:52
wazd	Stskeeps: It really looks like "Hello 80s" :D	16:53
Stskeeps	i liked the 80s..	16:53
Stskeeps	:P	16:53
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wazd	can image be 800x480 for that menu?)	16:56
Stskeeps	well, if you lay in the text too, yes, but there's a bit of stuff in the bottom as you might see	16:56
Stskeeps	we abuse the splash screen program for this so	16:56
wazd	so it's for Mer now, not deblet?)	16:58
Stskeeps	yeah, i took it from deblet, Mer's deblet successor :)	16:58
Stskeeps	we were able to reuse a lot of things so	16:59
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Stskeeps	also it can be both png and jpg	16:59
Stskeeps	okay, i gotta catch my bus	16:59
Stskeeps	be back in 30 mins	16:59
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johnx	cold cold cold :(	17:16
johnx	hey Stskeeps	17:16
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stephen_	has anyone done any status bar app work in python?	17:24
johnx	stephen_, there's pybattery (I tihnk it's called)	17:26
johnx	let me find you a link	17:26
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stephen_	thank you	17:26
johnx	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24905&highlight=pybattery	17:26
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stephen_	thanks :)	17:27
johnx	sure :)	17:27
johnx	what kind of applet are you planning to make?	17:27
stephen_	something that allows me to give status updates	17:27
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stephen_	like libnotify	17:28
AStorm	oh, isn't there a libnotify client already?	17:29
AStorm	used for "Battery full" and such	17:29
stephen_	i'll need to take a look :)	17:29
qwerty12	AStorm, it receives those events over dbus	17:30
stephen_	oh really?	17:30
stephen_	so if I publish a message to the notifier, over the dBus, it will display it on screen?	17:30
qwerty12	I think the battery applet is only configured to listen out for battery events	17:30
qwerty12	But, yes, you can use dbus signals to trick the applet	17:31
johnx	qwerty12, but there's other ways to print little notifcation bubbles than just tricking battery applet, right?	17:32
qwerty12	johnx, yes, http://maemo.org/api_refs/4.0/hildon/HildonBanner.html	17:33
johnx	stephen_, ^^probably what you want :)	17:33
stephen_	is there a python wrapper?	17:33
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qwerty12	Yes, I think it has the same name but with "hildon." in front. advanced-power uses it a lot to my knowledge so search for banner in the adv-power python file and you'll see it there	17:34
stephen_	great thanks :D	17:34
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qwerty12	np	17:34
Stskeeps	johnx: i'm still baffled why h-i-m stops working	17:37
qwerty12	stephen_, this may help: http://lovebug356.blogspot.com/2007/08/hildon-banner-in-pymaemo.html	17:37
Stskeeps	hooking it up with usb now	17:37
stephen_	thanks :)	17:38
johnx	Stskeeps, will poke at it in a sec. I worked on a 640x480 layout BTW. might be easier than I thought	17:38
Stskeeps	hehe, so you were on a zaurus with mer earlier or?	17:39
johnx	yeah, on the train :)	17:39
johnx	ah, but the keymap is all wonky in xorg on a zaurus, so I was on irssi	17:39
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johnx	err...IRC at my desk, layout on the train	17:40
Stskeeps	hehe	17:40
johnx	I guess I should sort out tethering over USB or IRDA to my phone	17:40
aquatix	if those clamshell zauri had had bluetooth, i would have had a zaurus	17:41
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Stskeeps	mm. there's nothing like a good drink after an exam	17:42
lardman	aquatix: and wifi too, there were no cf wifi cards that fitted flush	17:42
johnx	aquatix, actually, I'll probably be switching out my cf wifi card for a cf bluetooth card after I get a phone capable of tethering over BT	17:42
aquatix	Stskeeps: something alcoholic	17:42
aquatix	lardman: yeah	17:42
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* aquatix once specced out an order for a zaurus with wifi card, extra battery and such and came at a price of about 1kEUR		17:43
aquatix	which was a tad... much ;)	17:43
johnx	definitely :)	17:43
Stskeeps	aquatix: of course	17:43
johnx	I dropped <$400USD on my C1000 and probably $150+ on various CF wifi cards as they failed over the years :/	17:43
aquatix	but that was the 6GB one i think	17:44
aquatix	heh	17:44
aquatix	myeah, i would've had to use the UK importer or something	17:44
johnx	yeah, I'm starting to wish I had one with a microdrive	17:44
aquatix	or that japanese one	17:44
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johnx	I ordered when the prices were at an all time low I think	17:44
aquatix	nice	17:45
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Stskeeps	johnx: btw, is non-dependence on first-boot-wizard intentional?	17:46
johnx	in auto-startx?	17:46
johnx	yes	17:46
Stskeeps	k	17:46
johnx	I can see using auto-startx with a different desktop.	17:47
johnx	in that case people might want to remove hildon-desktop, and gtk. but first-boot-wizard->zenity->gtk	17:47
Stskeeps	yep	17:47
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johnx	didn't I have it as a recommend?	17:48
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wazd	Stskeeps: is something like this appropriate?) http://s50.radikal.ru/i129/0901/f7/a993f813f2c8.jpg	17:48
johnx	aquatix, aaaah. time softens all memories! I just looked up my order info in my mail archvie. $575 for a C1000 O_o	17:49
johnx	WTF was I thinking?	17:49
X-Fade	wazd: Did I miss your answer about your feed or did you miss my question? :)	17:49
aquatix	o/` Badger, Badger, Badger, Badger, Badger, Badger! o/`	17:49
aquatix	johnx: :)	17:49
aquatix	same here	17:49
aquatix	almost bought it	17:49
qwerty12	Jaffa, I think someone needs to tell the author of Boxar about Build-Depends :). He's already tried to get it into Extras	17:49
aquatix	then sanity kicked in	17:49
wazd	X-Fade: I guss I've missed the question, sorry)	17:50
Stskeeps	wazd: hehe, looks cool :> and replacing the mer logos with other icons?	17:50
* mgedmin hands aquatix two mushrooms		17:50
X-Fade	wazd: Is the content length limit of your feed intentional or is it just the default setting? :)	17:50
wazd	Stskeeps: yep	17:50
Stskeeps	johnx: we so need something to set the background in first-boot-wizard though	17:51
Stskeeps	even if a dialog box on top of a console is kinda cool	17:51
wazd	X-Fade: well, I'm adding "more" tag to enlight main page, haven't used any other limitations)	17:51
johnx	Stskeeps, you could tell the x server to give you a black background on startup, but there are also plenty of lightweight root-setting programs. let me get some dinner and I'll start looking at stuff again :)	17:52
Stskeeps	johnx: alright	17:52
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X-Fade	wazd: Then you might want to look in the configuration of your blog software. As you only seem to publish an excerpt.	17:52
johnx	is first-boot-wizard working OK BTW? I know it's not exactly elegant or bulletproof, but does it at least run for you from current packages?	17:52
Stskeeps	johnx: well i can't really type anything yet	17:53
X-Fade	wazd: Unless you want people to click through to your site..	17:53
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Stskeeps	johnx: and you need to change theme to 'default' :P	17:53
johnx	will do	17:53
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wazd	X-Fade: I'm using simple wordpress.com account	17:53
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Stskeeps	johnx: besides that, the repeat-on-error is working ;)	17:53
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X-Fade	wazd: I'm sure that is in your account settings..	17:54
wazd	X-Fade: I have to add "more" tag or there will be too much heavy images on the ain page	17:54
johnx	not sure what happens if you put "bobby ; rm -rf /" as a username though	17:54
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X-Fade	wazd: Well the [...] isn't added by us. It is wordpress which does that.	17:54
Stskeeps	johnx: "; DROP TABLE?	17:55
johnx	exactly :)	17:55
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Stskeeps	johnx: gainroot for hackers	17:55
Stskeeps	:P	17:55
Stskeeps	it was like that on fonera routers..	17:55
tlax	drop table to get ikea-table	17:55
wazd	X-Fade: I'll check the settings, thanks)	17:55
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X-Fade	wazd: Wordpress has partial or full feed support.	17:56
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Stskeeps	johnx: i suspect HIM is crashing	17:58
Stskeeps	checking why	17:58
r2d2rogers	http://handhelds.org/scap/port.8999.png	17:58
Stskeeps	johnx: any way to make the title not be "Add a new entry"?	17:58
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: hehe, sapwoodless	17:59
r2d2rogers	yessir	17:59
r2d2rogers	but it works otherwise	17:59
wazd	For each article in a feed, show Full Text	17:59
wazd	I have that one	17:59
r2d2rogers	even h-i-m	17:59
wazd	Actually my blog engine lives it's own private life and I can't affect him :)	18:00
X-Fade	wazd: Lol ;)	18:00
r2d2rogers	is there a wayt o get the categgory names to show right? http://handhelds.org/scap/port.9073.png	18:00
wazd	It deletes controls when it wants so what can I do)\	18:00
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johnx	Stskeeps, yes :)	18:02
Stskeeps	right, definately HIM crashes	18:03
Stskeeps	it cores	18:03
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infobot	Sargun: Have you had your vi today?	18:07
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Stskeeps	johnx: did we have some strange Xomap related hildon-input-method things?	18:08
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johnx	I still have Xorg	18:09
* johnx boots mer, tests h-i-m		18:09
TheFatal	is there a wlan analyzer for n810 ?	18:10
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johnx	just saw the bootsplash for the first time on my n800	18:10
Stskeeps	hehe	18:10
johnx	looks gorgeous!	18:10
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Stskeeps	then you probably want to hold down the rescue menu button and select console	18:11
Stskeeps	since you run Xorg	18:11
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johnx	just noticed that	18:11
l7	what's the best way to get wesnoth installed on diablo?	18:11
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l7	it looks like there used to be a package for wesnoth 1.2, but it's not in the repo anymore	18:12
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TheFatal	i have a problem	18:13
TheFatal	maemo-mapper does not start	18:13
TheFatal	in terminal says Segmentation failure	18:14
TheFatal	:S	18:14
Stskeeps	johnx: if i didn't know better.. it dies in pulseaudio	18:15
Stskeeps	pulsecore/mutex-posix.c	18:16
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johnx	h-i-m ... dies in pulseaudio?	18:16
Stskeeps	makes sense doesn't it? audio when getting up keyboard	18:17
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johnx	really? there's a sound?	18:18
johnx	I must have it off	18:18
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Stskeeps	not active	18:19
r2d2rogers	is there a wayt o get the categgory names to show right? http://handhelds.org/scap/port.9802.png	18:19
r2d2rogers	I haven't had much sound since OS2008HE <G>	18:19
qwerty12	Don't think locales work atm	18:21
johnx	Stskeeps, h-i-m works here. need to see if I have the latest version of everything though	18:22
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TheFatal	any1 can help me :S	18:24
stemosco	ping	18:24
Stskeeps	upgrade of libpulse..	18:24
Stskeeps	interesting	18:24
johnx	stemosco, poooong	18:24
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mgedmin	TheFatal: which OS, which version of maemo-mapper?	18:26
mgedmin	which device?	18:26
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TheFatal	maemo-mapper last, N810 OS2008	18:27
TheFatal	2.5.3 of maemo mapper	18:27
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johnx	TheFatal, you have the latest version of OS2008, right?	18:27
* Stskeeps wonders why pulseaudio needs avahi		18:27
TheFatal	yes	18:27
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qwerty12	Stskeeps, think it advertises itself to the network as a sound client...	18:28
TheFatal	can be the conf of the maemo-mapper is lost or change folder ?	18:28
TheFatal	when i try to start the terminal say me Segmentatino fault	18:28
Stskeeps	qwerty12: could be handy for fancy demos :P	18:29
qwerty12	Hehe, I'm just wondering about the pranking possibilities :P :)	18:29
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johnx	qwerty12, drop a n800 with wifi in a corner of the room under some clothes and have it scream for help and respond to questions?	18:30
aquatix	johnx: :)	18:31
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qwerty12	I can't let go of my N800 :P	18:31
lardman	what you want to do is put a speaker inside someone's bed, and play them whale music every night :)	18:31
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lcuk	i wouldnt waste it with whale music	18:32
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qwerty12	Hehe, IRC'ing every night from N800 is showing its toll on me when I dream about XChat 0_o :P	18:32
lcuk	"you will go to the bank in the morning and transfer all your money to..."	18:32
johnx	gentle whale music for 4 hours and then the sound of a jackhammer	18:32
qwerty12	lcuk, says the person who told the bank about a problem that they had :P	18:32
lcuk	that wasnt my problem, i never did follow up on that	18:33
lcuk	now ive laid low for a while i should go and draw on all those funds	18:33
lcuk	can someone find a nice simple best practice way for me to continue developing this library but more in the open	18:34
mgedmin	put your VCS somewhere out there	18:34
mgedmin	google code, launchpad, github, somewhere	18:35
mgedmin	add a mailing list	18:35
lcuk	i need big banners and guard dogs to keep ppl from stomping on the code im thinking about whilst dreaming	18:35
mgedmin	find some people interested in it	18:35
mgedmin	the last bit is the most important one	18:35
lcuk	theres plenty i think :)	18:35
lcuk	who wants libliqbase?	18:35
* lcuk cries as the crickets chirping		18:36
lcuk	:) makes my life simpler	18:36
mgedmin	nobody ever puts anonymously world-writable repositories, so stomping is usually not an issue	18:36
mgedmin	unless you consider patches sent via email to be stomping	18:36
mgedmin	but usually it's more of a problem to get someone to get interested enough to send a patch	18:36
lcuk	yeah mg i know	18:37
lcuk	its not a problem of patches though, its being afraid of getting stuck in one direction based on feedback	18:38
johnx	lcuk, look. publishing code on a VCS != doing everything people tell you to	18:38
mgedmin	you could always put your hands over your ears and go o/` la la la o/`	18:38
johnx	mgedmin++	18:39
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mgedmin	until you've finished coding what you wanted	18:39
lcuk	ok, ill use my current liqbase svn and create all this in a branch	18:39
* mgedmin tends to ignore wishlist requests for the software he maintains, and lets them fester in the bug tracker, occasionally feeling guilty about that		18:40
johnx	lcuk, here's some boilerplate: "That's an interesting idea, but I'm taking this in a different direction. If you can send me a patch that keeps the default behavior intact and adds your new idea as a runtime option, I'd be very interested."	18:40
lcuk	im just frustrated i didnt get my core widget in place before now, i wanted a new year video :'(	18:40
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mgedmin	easy	18:41
mgedmin	just build a time machine	18:41
mgedmin	or wait 11 months ;)	18:41
lcuk	hehehehehe	18:41
b1ackdeath	would it be possible to have both Deblet and Ubuntu Jaunty on the same sd card if it was 8gigs?	18:41
lcuk	can i have a pony as well?	18:41
* mgedmin once specified his timezone in roundup as +0300		18:41
lcuk	lol	18:41
* mgedmin later noticed that roundup interpreted that as "2 weeks after UTC"		18:41
lcuk	anyway back soon, ill get it together tonight i hope	18:41
johnx	b1ackdeath, sure, just have to partition it	18:41
mgedmin	what kind of software thinks "three hundred hours" is a reasonable timezone offset?	18:42
johnx	mgedmin, that's awesome	18:42
qwerty12	mgedmin, someone in Japan who has built a time machine :)	18:42
johnx	cough	18:43
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qwerty12	:O. This is not the Johnx from 2009?	18:43
johnx	qwerty12, icks-nay on the ime-tay achine-may	18:43
b1ackdeath	yeah i figured im justing asking , to see if any one had done it yet	18:43
qwerty12	hehe	18:43
johnx	qwerty12, er, uhm, wait...of course this is the johnx from 2009!! who else would it be?	18:43
qwerty12	johnx, I don't want to say anything incase I blow the secret :P	18:44
qwerty12	But then again, I don't think I was thinking that before...	18:44
johnx	qwerty12, ever watched "Primer"?	18:45
johnx	good movie :)	18:45
qwerty12	johnx, nope. I think you are from the future because I was just about to ask "is it good?" :P	18:45
johnx	UTC+9 :)	18:46
qwerty12	hehe :)	18:46
johnx	s/9/0900/	18:46
infobot	johnx meant: UTC+0900 :)	18:46
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b1ackdeath	has any one tryed x11 forwarding to the n810 with out peguien baits air-x?	18:53
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Stskeeps	johnx: still at a loss why this error happens	18:57
Stskeeps	it's definately PA related	18:57
johnx	still plenty of people offering to sell me an n810 wimax. guess they didn't get the memo	18:57
johnx	running apt-get upgrade now. I'll see if the latest versions play nice with xorg	18:58
Stskeeps	in good news, gconf is playing nice again	18:59
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johnx	after you beat it until it stores values in $HOME ?	19:00
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Stskeeps	yeah	19:00
johnx	I really hope Nokia eventually picks up some of these changes	19:00
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Stskeeps	we'll write a book	19:00
Stskeeps	:P	19:00
johnx	how about a tv movie?	19:02
Stskeeps	hehe	19:02
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johnx	there can be car chases and explosions and a murder to solve!	19:02
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AFB\|Away	anyone know why my n810 wouldn't have the newest Version of OS but no update is showing?	19:05
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johnx	Andrewfblack, is it diablo or something older?	19:06
Stskeeps	johnx: wtf	19:06
Stskeeps	it works with xorg	19:06
johnx	Stskeeps, ah, another special bug. we have all the luck	19:07
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Andrewfblack	johnx Diablo	19:07
johnx	Andrewfblack, did you remove osso-software-version-rx44?	19:07
Stskeeps	johnx: then again Xomap is a bit of a scary thing	19:08
Andrewfblack	don't think so	19:08
johnx	Andrewfblack, can you check if it's installed from x terminal? apt-cache policy osso-software-version-rx44	19:09
wazd	WOOOHOOO!!!	19:09
wazd	I've found my 8Gb SDHC!!!1	19:09
Stskeeps	woo	19:09
Stskeeps	johnx: seems to work flawlessly under xorg	19:09
johnx	woo! now that is what I like to hear	19:10
Andrewfblack	says its not installed	19:10
johnx	Andrewfblack, is it available?	19:10
Andrewfblack	or Installed: (none)	19:10
Andrewfblack	I don't see where it says anything avout available	19:11
johnx	Does it say "candidate" somewhere?	19:11
Andrewfblack	yeah	19:11
johnx	that's the available version	19:11
johnx	do you have root access?	19:12
Andrewfblack	wonder why its not showing in my app manager	19:12
johnx	it's not a user package	19:12
johnx	it's a system thing, but it can be installed if something conflicts with it	19:12
johnx	maybe rotation support or something else like that	19:12
johnx	s/installed/uninstalled	19:12
Andrewfblack	I don't have rotation on here anymore but that might be it I used to	19:13
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johnx	well, just get root access and type: apt-get install osso-software-version-rx44 and see what it wants to do	19:13
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Stskeeps	johnx: i guess this means back on the xorg bandwagon again	19:14
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johnx	Stskeeps, I really wonder what the problem is...	19:14
Stskeeps	johnx: weird X replies or something prolly	19:14
Proteous	that's good, the xorg bandwagon is where all the tasty grub is	19:15
Andrewfblack	johnx says I have unmet depenencies	19:15
johnx	Andrewfblack, maybe just dependency issues :P	19:16
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wazd	Stskeeps: http://s45.radikal.ru/i107/0901/4e/bf8bdbb120d0.jpg	19:18
qwerty12	wazd, nice logos :)	19:19
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Stskeeps	wazd: <3	19:19
Stskeeps	wazd: now we just need those 5 pngs i guess :>	19:20
wazd	yep	19:20
Andrewfblack	johnx says Depends: libxm12 (=2.6.27.dfsg-1osso4) but 2.6.27.dfsg-1.maemo1 is to be installed	19:20
Stskeeps	johnx: you should definately see that jpg too	19:21
johnx	wazd, that looks gorgeous	19:21
wazd	johnx: thx :)	19:21
johnx	Andrewfblack, apt-cache policy libxml2	19:21
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wazd	Stskeeps: maybe write text right on pngs?	19:21
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Stskeeps	wazd: yeah, is a possibility	19:22
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wazd	Stskeeps: It will look prettier I guess :)	19:22
Stskeeps	hehe, yeah	19:22
Stskeeps	remember to keep the raw material	19:22
Stskeeps	we might want to do 6 options at some point :P	19:22
Andrewfblack	johnx tells me I have 2.6.27.dfsg-1.maemo1 installed	19:22
wazd	Stskeeps: sure, all my work lives as .psd's on my PC :)	19:23
johnx	Andrewfblack, and where is it from?	19:23
johnx	what repository?	19:23
Andrewfblack	httP;//repository.maemo.org diablo/free	19:23
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wazd	Stskeeps: post me the text for each tab so I can insert it	19:23
johnx	Andrewfblack, if you type: apt-get install libxm12=2.6.27.dfsg-1osso4	19:24
johnx	what does it say?	19:24
Stskeeps	wazd: Start Mer normally - Activate console on framebuffer - Act as a USB ethernet gadget with open telnetd - Act as a Serial USB Gadget with shell - Restart tablet	19:25
johnx	Stskeeps, could you try hitting backspace on the h-i-m keyboard? and tell me if it crashes xorg for you too?	19:25
Stskeeps	tablet/device	19:25
Andrewfblack	says it will downgrade the package	19:25
wazd	Stskeeps: ok, and what size should .png's be to fit fullscreen?	19:25
Andrewfblack	and asks me if I want to do it	19:25
Stskeeps	wazd: 800x480	19:25
Stskeeps	johnx: nop	19:26
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johnx	Andrewfblack, should be fine	19:26
wazd	Stskeeps: ok	19:26
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Stskeeps	wazd: thanks for all the good work so far btw :)	19:27
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johnx	Andrewfblack, I mean, should fine to downgrade if nothing is depending on the later version. however you might want to backup just to be on the safe side. :)	19:27
Andrewfblack	I keep an upto date backup all the time lol	19:28
wazd	Stskeeps: It's good to help if you can :)	19:29
Andrewfblack	beleave it or not a few of my themes have made me have to restore before	19:29
johnx	Andrewfblack, then downgrade it and after that install osso-software-version-rx44	19:29
Stskeeps	johnx: xf86-video-omap-fb is on your bzr?	19:29
johnx	yup	19:30
johnx	xserver-xorg-video-omapfb	19:30
Sargun	how long does the warranty last on the n810?	19:31
johnx	Sargun, 1 year I think	19:31
Stskeeps	johnx: i'm adding in functionality of fb_update_mode into the x driver	19:32
johnx	sounds great, I'll fix those things in first-boot-wizard	19:33
disco_stu	is it possible to have rotation enabled with the last ssu ?	19:33
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Stskeeps	johnx: pushed to ~mer-committers	19:40
Andrewfblack	anyone want to help me with arrow for MerEcho theme?	19:40
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Stskeeps	johnx: weird question, is the cursor supposed to be blinking in applications?	19:42
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TheFatal	i question. where are the conf files of maemo mappers ?	19:42
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johnx	Stskeeps, ... blinking?	19:42
Stskeeps	johnx: yeah, like, in a text field	19:43
johnx	TheFatal, it stores settings in gconf	19:43
TheFatal	and where is gconf ?	19:43
johnx	Stskeeps, good question. only thing I ever run is roxterm	19:43
johnx	TheFatal, to edit settings stored in gconf you should get gconf-editor	19:43
Stskeeps	johnx: successful hack with update mode btw	19:44
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johnx	TheFatal, http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/gconf-editor/	19:44
johnx	Stskeeps, awesome! did it turn out to be pretty simple?	19:44
wazd	http://i033.radikal.ru/0901/dd/e14d95901e1f.png \| http://i001.radikal.ru/0901/b5/451f59144db9.png \| http://s50.radikal.ru/i127/0901/73/50f61d30e225.png \| http://s55.radikal.ru/i147/0901/dc/67299b8389ab.png \| http://s50.radikal.ru/i128/0901/48/2f491466201d.png	19:44
Stskeeps	johnx: oneliner	19:45
wazd	Stskeeps: I thought if I can use jpg to reduce overall size	19:45
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Stskeeps	wazd: are the jpgs smaller or?	19:45
wazd	Stskeeps: Since five pics costs more that 1 meg	19:45
wazd	Sskeeps: jpgs are way smaller	19:45
Stskeeps	then go for that instead	19:46
Stskeeps	space is a factor i guess :)	19:46
Stskeeps	still, looks bloody brilliant	19:46
wazd	Stskeeps: check the text, I'll just resave pngs	19:46
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johnx	Stskeeps, imagine me or you trying to do art for this? shakes his head	19:47
Stskeeps	johnx: 80s style	19:47
Stskeeps	but yes	19:47
Stskeeps	that would be loathsome	19:47
johnx	a mix of foojacked icons and pictures drawn with a mouse in gimp	19:47
wazd	johnx: well, actually all of that stuff was made with netbook trackpad :D	19:48
Stskeeps	+ cat /usr/share/first-boot-wizard/host-template	19:48
Stskeeps	cat: /usr/share/first-boot-wizard/host-template: No such file or directory	19:48
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Stskeeps	-> johnx	19:48
r2d2rogers	wazd: that looks great, I was thinking I was missing out by not getting to look at the great splash screen when I zig through the rescue menu	19:49
wazd	johnx: so mouse is not big deal)	19:49
johnx	Stskeeps, typo :)	19:49
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: apt-get upgrade and you can see splash again	19:49
johnx	fixing...	19:49
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: (xf86-video-omapfb update)	19:49
r2d2rogers	r2d2rogers: gotta unbreak my apt-get first	19:49
r2d2rogers	oooo	19:49
wazd	Stskeeps: is text alright?)	19:50
Stskeeps	wazd: i suspect the font is better on tablet screen	19:50
wazd	I can see Mer's ad: "Mer's rescue screen is so cute that you will atually want to break your device to see it!"	19:50
Stskeeps	lol	19:51
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johnx	is solca's boot selector thing capable of using a similar front end?	19:51
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Stskeeps	johnx: there's some kexec problems atm so that is kinda put in the grave temporarily	19:51
TheFatal	johnx: can you make me a favor ?	19:52
Stskeeps	it requires the r&d serial mode on	19:52
johnx	TheFatal, sure	19:52
johnx	Stskeeps, in the grave only to rise again hungering for the brains of innocent developers?	19:52
TheFatal	can u send the poi.db file of maemo-mapper to this mail :: guido.rugo@gmail.com	19:52
johnx	TheFatal, I don't have one	19:52
* Stskeeps tries to install network-manager-gnome		19:52
TheFatal	do you hace N810 ?	19:53
TheFatal	have**	19:53
wazd	Stskeeps: well, looks pretty sexy on tablet :)	19:53
johnx	TheFatal, I have an N800, and it's not booted to OS2008 right now. if you delete it or a move it maemo-mapper will probably create a new one	19:53
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TheFatal	:S	19:56
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wazd	Stskeeps: Jpgs are 4 times smaller than png without visual quality loss	19:56
TheFatal	no, it does not create new one	19:56
Stskeeps	grr @ update-notifier	19:57
Stskeeps	that thing -really- needs to go	19:57
Stskeeps	except that breaks NM	19:57
Stskeeps	that's lovely	19:57
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Stskeeps	johnx: plugdev, netdev as part of first-boot-wizard?	20:01
wazd	http://s61.radikal.ru/i171/0901/c5/6d882d7139b3.jpg \| http://s42.radikal.ru/i096/0901/a4/c49a6447bae8.jpg \| http://s40.radikal.ru/i087/0901/7a/8c8572d2b348.jpg \| http://s50.radikal.ru/i129/0901/de/0abbc991b295.jpg \| http://s53.radikal.ru/i140/0901/33/99c87c8407b8.jpg	20:01
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johnx	Stskeeps, roger	20:01
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Shadow_M	hey anyone know if there is a dc++ client for maemo	20:02
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Stskeeps	nm-applet so needs to be hildonized..	20:03
Shadow_M	or does one need to be ported	20:03
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wazd	Shadow_M: never heard of that, but the port would be awesome, since I've searched for it too)	20:04
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Shadow_M	hmm yeah it would be nice what would have to get ported the gui right if compiled from source	20:05
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wazd	I can actually test "rescue menu" in image viewer :P	20:07
Stskeeps	hehe :>	20:07
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* r2d2rogers tries to find out what dies in hildon on first load		20:08
Khertan_n810_12	Hellone !oyreve	20:08
Stskeeps	sapwood?	20:09
r2d2rogers	hadn't triggered it yet	20:09
mgedmin	wazd: awesome pics, and I don't notice any jpg artefacts	20:09
r2d2rogers	but probable	20:09
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wazd	mgedmin: well, they are there, but too small to see them without magnify :)	20:09
r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: still using the start-hildon?	20:09
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Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: i'll answer later, adding pics to rescue menu atm :)	20:10
Khertan_n810_12	someone have some snippet code about inserting image in a sqlite database from a gtk.Image to sqltie and vice and versa ?;	20:10
wazd	Hey Khertan :)	20:10
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: and i should -really- get to make that lassagna tonight i have been wishing for all week ;)	20:10
Khertan_n810_12	pixbuf will make me crazy with their poor docs	20:10
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mgedmin	Khertan_n810_12: no, but maybe http://blogs.gnome.org/vivien/2007/01/14/storing-pictures-in-a-database-with-libgdalibgnomedb/ will help	20:11
r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: cool, lunch here too, catch ya in an hour or so...	20:11
johnx	Stskeeps, you done with all your exams?	20:12
Khertan_n810_12	other question : do you have problem displaying the output of the n810 camera ... ? i get a freeze for 10 to 15s every minutes	20:12
Stskeeps	johnx: 1 down, 2 to go	20:12
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Khertan_n810_12	thx for the link	20:13
mgedmin	last time I played with the nokia 'camera' app, it used so much CPU that the device became unresponsive and eventually rebooted	20:13
lcuk	Khertan_n810, for the images and database thing wouldnt it be more usable to save it alongside the DB and have only the name in the db	20:13
lcuk	that way the system thumbnailer can access and handle it	20:13
lcuk	and you could at a later stage use that info :)	20:14
TheFatal	how can i delete a gconf file	20:14
johnx	let's see: first-boot-wizard: default theme, add titles, add user to netdev and plugdev. was there anything else?	20:14
Stskeeps	johnx: background	20:14
johnx	righ	20:14
johnx	t	20:14
Stskeeps	this goes for both hildon-desktop-env and first-boot-wizard :P	20:14
Stskeeps	the dark color is depressing	20:15
lcuk	Khertan_n810, also, camera wise try setting gstreamer to send down smaller images and lesser framerate :: liqbase is rock solid at 32024015	20:15
lcuk	at full speed i think you run out of bandwidth to do everything	20:15
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* lcuk speaks to a blank wall :P		20:16
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johnx	yeah, I thought the camera app seemed to be having bandwidth issues instead of CPU issues	20:17
qwerty12	johnx, dunno if you got the armel zenity built in Mer already but it builds fine if I do : "export SBOX_REDIRECT_IGNORE=/usr/bin/python ; export PATH=/usr/bin:$PATH" (albeit slowly when it comes to the docs) in scratchbox	20:17
mgedmin	lcuk, if the wall answers, you have problems	20:17
Stskeeps	qwerty12: wtf redirects python? O_o	20:17
qwerty12	Stskeeps, ?	20:18
StOrM_NW	is there any application client already running on maemo that is similar of sofia sip client?	20:18
Stskeeps	what devkit overrides python?	20:18
lcuk	johnx, internally its usb and stuff and between the omapfb and the camera and gtk needing copies of buffers and sending over x11 and everything its gotta starve it	20:18
qwerty12	ah	20:18
johnx	qwerty12, thanks. I'll try that in a sec	20:18
Stskeeps	johnx: you can (but i usually dont like it), dpkg-buildpackage -B and /import-indep-packages instead btw	20:18
johnx	lcuk, reminds me of my PCI TV tuner card saturating the PCI bus :)	20:18
Stskeeps	i do it when i dont want to wait for builder	20:19
qwerty12	Stskeeps, sbox uses python internally afaik, the weird shell thing it uses on top of bash uses python iirc	20:19
Stskeeps	or the builder sdk is stupid	20:19
johnx	Stskeeps, I'd like to get this building. it's a core package...	20:19
lcuk	yeah sounds reasonable - im just gonna test something..	20:19
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Stskeeps	lovely	20:20
Stskeeps	NM requires dhclient	20:20
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johnx	doesn't udhcp have issues anyways? What's the size difference?	20:20
wazd	http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/01/13/palms-mojo-sdk-for-webos-in-pictures/	20:21
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Shadow_M	wazd so you never found a dc++ client for maemo would one for debian work if you booted debian on it	20:22
stv0	hi, do we have a german irc channel too?	20:22
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Stskeeps	johnx: in other good news NM works	20:23
johnx	Stskeeps, w00t! What was the magic?	20:23
Stskeeps	johnx: dhcp3-client, gweather, possibly missing icons in theme	20:23
Stskeeps	johnx: oh, when start-hildon starts, it should mkdir -p MyDocs/.images	20:24
Stskeeps	(for easy screenshots)	20:24
wazd	Shadow_M: nope(	20:24
Shadow_M	hmm how do we change that	20:25
johnx	Stskeeps, it should just make the whole group right?	20:27
johnx	.images, .sounds, etc, etc	20:27
Stskeeps	johnx: hmm?	20:27
Stskeeps	yeah	20:27
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lcuk	running liqbase at 640480 + taking pictures at 640480 obtains realistic screen refresh, as soon as i run through the stretchblit routine (usually drops 2-3fps) it changes the camera to take about 3 seconds per frame (i see it drawing - its actually multiple screen frames per camera image)	20:28
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Stskeeps	johnx: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer-nm.pngh	20:30
Stskeeps	s/pngh/png/	20:30
infobot	Stskeeps meant: johnx: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer-nm.png	20:30
johnx	ahaha! that's a neat notification	20:30
lcuk	the difference between blits is that copyblit uses 32bit longs, the stretchblit uses 8 bit bytes and hogs the bus for longer	20:30
qwerty12	libnotify :)	20:31
johnx	imagine walking in and out of wifi range all day :)	20:31
johnx	there'd be a nice pile when you finally looked at your tablet	20:31
* RST38h cackles evilly ((C)Angband) and suggests a semitransparent xterm with dmesg output instead		20:32
Stskeeps	johnx: nm-applet[3465]: GLIB WARNING ** default - Icon nm-device-wwan missing: Icon 'nm	20:32
Stskeeps	.. not present in theme	20:32
Stskeeps	or anywhere, for that sake	20:33
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lcuk	6404808fps is STABLE	20:36
lcuk	and does not slugup	20:36
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lcuk	qwerty12_N800, are you ok if the camera updates at 8fps instead of the current 15?	20:38
lcuk	ie its a bit more jerky, but benefits include better signal to noise and also 640*480 is stable :)	20:38
Stskeeps	wazd: rescue screen looks awesome :)	20:38
Stskeeps	i have a bit of green in the bottom by accident, but, awesome	20:39
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qwerty12_N800	lcuk, I have no problems, the camera sucks anyway - any attempt to make it more stable = win for me :)	20:39
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lcuk	heh	20:39
stv0	http://www.steffenvogel.de/2009/01/11/selfmade-nokia-n810-micro-usb-otg-kabel/	20:39
stv0	sorry just in german	20:39
stv0	have a look to the picturtes ;)	20:40
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r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: I didn't have virtual memory on again... missing part of the line in fstab...	20:41
r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: but maemo-launcher is hanging up now, eating ram	20:41
Stskeeps	recent imaging or?	20:42
r2d2rogers	yup	20:42
r2d2rogers	missing "none" for mount point	20:42
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StOrM_NW	does tapioca supports sip?	20:43
stv0	i've a avm fritzbox router with an usb port. how can i access to a usbdrive connected to this usb port?	20:43
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stv0	the router shares the hdd as a samba share	20:43
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stv0	unfortunatly the router isn't part of a windows workgroup, so the router does'nt appear in maemos filebrowser	20:44
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Stskeeps	stv0: wizard mounter maybe	20:44
stv0	do you have some additionals infos or an url?	20:45
stv0	its totally new to me	20:45
Stskeeps	google wizard mounter maemo	20:45
Stskeeps	johnx: our watchdog crash screen should be a fish floating to the top..	20:46
Stskeeps	:P	20:46
johnx	ahaha	20:46
johnx	ouch...pretty psycologically damaging O_o	20:46
Stskeeps	in style of the sad mac	20:47
r2d2rogers	how many maemo-lanucher processes should there be?	20:48
lcuk	depends on time of day and location in the world	20:48
r2d2rogers	<G>	20:48
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Stskeeps	lcuk's scaringily right though	20:50
Stskeeps	:P	20:50
lcuk	oi, its not that rare	20:50
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r2d2rogers	so I'm up to wondering why one of them seems to be a run away	20:51
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johnx	r2d2rogers, kill all of them and restart X and start-hildon	20:54
r2d2rogers	X auto restarts	20:56
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r2d2rogers	but wilco	20:57
r2d2rogers	killall maemo-launcher, done	20:57
r2d2rogers	have set my user to login after timeout so I can get logged back in	20:57
* r2d2rogers needs to find more locales		20:58
r2d2rogers	perl keeps complaining	20:58
r2d2rogers	johnx: it loops back to the greeter	20:59
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johnx	r2d2rogers, can you pastebin ~/.xsession-errors ?	21:00
r2d2rogers	now I have the hildon screen up, same as earlier screen shot, but with a white box in the desktopo	21:00
r2d2rogers	johnx: http://pastebin.com/m237e8c19	21:02
lcuk	http://www.linuxpromagazine.com/online/news/sony_dsc_g3_camera_has_wi_fi_and_linux	21:02
lcuk	o_O	21:02
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r2d2rogers	johnx: it restarts X after droppiong a segmentation fault into the .xsession-errors	21:04
johnx	lcuk, lots of things run linux that you don't know about. now if it would run mer I'd sign up :)	21:04
johnx	r2d2rogers, so it gets to the desktop, prints those lines. does it crash on its own after a while?	21:05
r2d2rogers	yes	21:05
CutMeOwnThroat	a camera? wazzit do with an OS	21:05
r2d2rogers	cpu maxed, top indicates it's maemo-launcher tying up the processor	21:05
r2d2rogers	with or without sapwood running	21:06
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johnx	CutMeOwnThroat, I would assume the OS runs programs? like maybe a flickr uploader. might even handle some post processing	21:06
CutMeOwnThroat	it's obviously there for the wifi-part... funny thing to have in a camera, though	21:07
johnx	it has a browser :)	21:07
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CutMeOwnThroat	things more and more become what is known as "eierlegende Wollmilchsau" in Germany	21:08
johnx	things become unpronounceable to foreigners? :)	21:08
CutMeOwnThroat	haha... not sure I could translate this, but there's a wikipedia article on it	21:08
CutMeOwnThroat	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Eierlegende_Wollmilchsau	21:08
CutMeOwnThroat	actually the article claims I can use it in English as well :)	21:09
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lcuk	CutMeOwnThroat, i thought the same, but if its a decent camera and a reasonable touch device running linux then its ticking lots of good boxes for me, shame it lacks a keyboard	21:10
johnx	depends on if it's hackable or not	21:10
johnx	don't underestimate that very important point	21:10
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StOrM_NW	is there any sip client for maemo?	21:11
wazd	brand new Samsung vacum cleaner with linux onboard :)	21:11
wazd	StOrM_NW: Gizmo actually	21:11
wazd	StOrM_NW: and even built in stuff	21:11
johnx	StOrM_NW, included with the OS	21:12
StOrM_NW	OS 2008.?	21:12
johnx	yes. internet call	21:12
Stskeeps	now where was it i could get a 770 kernel..	21:12
wazd	StOrM_NW: OS whatever it is	21:12
StOrM_NW	k	21:12
CutMeOwnThroat	let me guess you can use the vacuum cleaner for phoning, keeping your addresses, emailing and making coffee?	21:13
wazd	CutMeOwnThroat: sure! Also you can install Ubuntu on it!	21:13
CutMeOwnThroat	eek	21:14
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CutMeOwnThroat	does it make eggs?	21:15
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: any clue where to grab a os2008he kernel from?	21:15
r2d2rogers	I usually head to fanoush,	21:15
Stskeeps	source? :P	21:16
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r2d2rogers	the URL or source code?	21:16
Stskeeps	source	21:16
CutMeOwnThroat	I actually wanted to ask you about this little chappie here: http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-N810-Portable-Internet-Tablet/dp/tech-data/B000Y4AH3C	21:16
r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: digging	21:17
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r2d2rogers	http://repository.maemo.org/pool/gregale/free/source/k/kernel-source-2.6.16/	21:17
r2d2rogers	plus fanoush's patches http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/n770-49-mmc-2.6.18-osso55-sdhc.diff	21:18
r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: ^^^	21:18
Stskeeps	k	21:18
* RST38h wonders.		21:19
CutMeOwnThroat	I was never in for pdas, heck, I don't even have a mobile, but this thing looks like a sort of micro-laptop that runs linux...	21:19
CutMeOwnThroat	eh?	21:19
CutMeOwnThroat	wtf	21:20
Stskeeps	CutMeOwnThroat: sure is	21:20
CutMeOwnThroat	did I (or my xchat) really change the topic, or did xchat just make that up.... (if yes, sorry)	21:20
Stskeeps	make it up i think	21:20
CutMeOwnThroat	ok... good :)	21:21
Stskeeps	CutMeOwnThroat: it's about one of the most open mobile devices on the market that works	21:21
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CutMeOwnThroat	Stskeeps, so do you have full control over it from start on, or do you have to break into your own device?	21:22
Stskeeps	enable maemo extras in application, install rootsh, and you can sudo gainroot	21:22
Stskeeps	application manager	21:23
CutMeOwnThroat	that translates into... you don't have by default, but it's easy?	21:23
Stskeeps	as easy as eating pie.	21:23
* CutMeOwnThroat considers it can be pretty hard eating a huge, overly sweet pie		21:23
Stskeeps	http://wiki.maemo.org/Root_access	21:23
CutMeOwnThroat	:-P	21:23
Stskeeps	there's even a X terminal :)	21:24
RST38h	The DSC-G3 comes with a Zeiss lens with 4x zoom, a large 3.5" touch display, and 4GB of internal memory. Most interesting is the camera's software that includes, among other things, face and scene recognition, based on Busybox and Kernel 2.6.11 for the Access Linux Platform.	21:25
RST38h	Sts: How about running MeR on a Cybershot? =)	21:25
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: i was just thinking of it	21:25
wazd	CyberMer :)	21:25
Stskeeps	er	21:25
Stskeeps	RST38h:	21:25
r2d2rogers	heh	21:25
Stskeeps	RST38h: i highly doubt it's a open device though	21:25
RST38h	Mer Shot	21:25
RST38h	Sts: well, for each keyhole...	21:26
johnx	RST38h, you're late. lcuk linked it before :P	21:26
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RST38h	johnx: ehhh...why am I always late?	21:27
* r2d2rogers upgrades to the new rescue menu		21:27
RST38h	no worry, the next teacher-crucified-for-installing-linux story is all mine.	21:27
johnx	RST38h, and yes, if I saw a strong hacking community around that camera I'd be saving up the money already	21:27
RST38h	johnx: Sony's ebook has been hacked already btw	21:28
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ssvb	lcuk: do you want a fast images scaler (though with crappy quality)?	21:28
RST38h	johnx: as for the camera, it seems to be an average p&s, so not sure if it is worth the money	21:28
wazd	RST38h: Well, for 500$ I can buy beginner DSLR, without linux though :)	21:29
johnx	RST38h, but the hack-value is very high. :)	21:29
RST38h	johnx: yes, but it is of not much use if it can't make good photos	21:30
RST38h	wazd: I would rather go for a G10 or something	21:30
CutMeOwnThroat	Stskeeps, sounds like fun... could probably use sshfs over the wireless as well :)	21:30
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johnx	RST38h, how much do you use the emulators you write? how many hours a day?	21:30
wazd	RST38h: btw, do you know, if it's possible to patent hardware design in Russia?	21:31
RST38h	wazd: still pocketable, less danger to catch the photographer disease, etc	21:31
ssvb	lcuk: it's here: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/mozilla/tags/stable_171108/microb-engine/microb-engine/1.0.4-60.20/debian/patches/820_browser-fast-image-scaling-v2.diff?revision=3729&root=browser&view=markup	21:31
RST38h	wazd: it is possible all right, but nobody will care anyway	21:31
Stskeeps	CutMeOwnThroat: tablet can run mer, maemo, ubuntu, gentoo, debian, android, etc	21:31
Stskeeps	it's really a very versatile device	21:31
RST38h	hw stuff is patentable anywhere	21:31
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RST38h	johnx: Used VGBA today to play some weird Japanese Nethack clone	21:32
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RST38h	johnx: Very cute btw	21:32
ssvb	lcuk: 'scale_image_16' is an ARM optimized nearest neighbour scaler implementation, probably the same as 'stretchblit'	21:32
wazd	RST38h: So if I'll have russian patent other world wouldn't care bout it?	21:32
RST38h	johnx: 15 minutes total	21:32
johnx	RST38h, :) right, and I like futzing around with strange hardware. in this case the photo functionality is pretty secondary	21:33
RST38h	wazd: Well, if I understand things correctly, in US I will be able to use your idea and you will have real trouble suing me	21:33
johnx	also, I'm a crappy photographer anyways	21:33
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CutMeOwnThroat	Stskeeps, well, "disk" (flash) space is limited... but I just see you can extend to up to 32GB... that would indeed be enough for Debian... how amazing :)	21:33
RST38h	wazd: So, it is greatly suggested to get a US patent	21:33
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RST38h	wazd: Submitting an application costs around $750 afaik (may be wrong)	21:33
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wazd	RST38h: Even if they will deny it?)	21:34
Stskeeps	CutMeOwnThroat: 256mb internal flash, 2gb internal mmc, 32gb external mmc	21:34
Stskeeps	so	21:34
RST38h	wazd: Yes. But it usually takes 2 years or so to process it and all that time your rights will be already protected	21:34
RST38h	wazd: tme counts since you submit the application	21:34
wazd	RST38h: hm, that's good news)	21:35
johnx	so when that sony linux-cam says the 3.5" display is 921k pixels, that would be 1024x900 or so, huh?	21:35
florian	re	21:35
wazd	RST38h: I think I should search FCC if it has similar submissions or so	21:35
CutMeOwnThroat	... although I don't see a lot of 32gb micro sd cards around, yet	21:36
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RST38h	wazd: FCC is not a patent office	21:36
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RST38h	wazd: Patent office is USPTO	21:37
wazd	RST38h: oh, they're like russian RST	21:37
RST38h	wazd: FCC is American Inspekciya Elektrosvyazi	21:37
wazd	RST38h: :)	21:37
RST38h	www.uspto.gov/ for patents	21:37
wazd	johnx: digital camera displays are not always built like computer displays	21:38
RST38h	johnx: sounds way too much	21:38
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RST38h	johnx: I think they count rgb components separately	21:38
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johnx	RST38h, that would be sad :/	21:39
RST38h	johnx: well, the sensor resolutions are counted like that	21:39
wazd	johnx: they may have diagonal pixels orientation, not rows and coloumns	21:39
RST38h	maybe Sony decided to bend reality a little and do the same with the display resolution	21:39
johnx	RST38h, yup, 640x480 :)	21:39
Jaffa	Wow. ITT's gone... quiet.	21:40
RST38h	wazd: naah, pixels are still arranged rectangularly, it is the update that is done diagonally sometimes	21:40
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RST38h	wazd: mostly in cheap portable dvd players	21:40
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johnx	they posted their linux source :)	21:41
wazd	RST38h: I have such a screen on my Nikon D70. "For sharper image" it's said :)	21:41
RST38h	lie, terrible lie	21:42
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RST38h	johnx: it will only be a few weeks now, before someone breaks it =)	21:42
johnx	RST38h, no one ever bothered with Sony's COM1 or COM2	21:42
johnx	but that was probably since the N800/N810 were out and open	21:43
johnx	also called mylo	21:43
RST38h	johnx: I think somebody tried to couple with them but later said they weren't forthcoming	21:44
CutMeOwnThroat	Stskeeps, well, thanks, that has been interesting to know :)	21:44
RST38h	let's see what the interweb says	21:44
johnx	RST38h, from what I've seen there was one hack for the very first firmware version and then sony clamped it down and no one with knowledge stepped up	21:44
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johnx	BTW, think that sony camera has usb host support	21:45
RST38h	johnx: Sony is really stupi in this regard	21:45
RST38h	johnx: they should let copyright lawyers rule so totally, even in the areas which they shouldn't be present in	21:45
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lcuk	ssvb, can i just compile that asm up with the normal code, because every time i tried (when i was first working on blitter) it always failed	21:46
lcuk	my stretchblit is exceedingly poor, but theres pathways for normal and for blended and blend+alpha	21:46
RST38h	lcuk: are you using assembly?	21:47
lcuk	no, i could never get it to work	21:47
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lcuk	i think though i have to concentrate more on the front end side of things	21:48
johnx	~60M of RAM, / is a ramfs	21:48
infobot	johnx: what are you talking about?	21:48
lcuk	i have to get this last class into the lib	21:48
johnx	infobot, things beyond your comprehension my little friend	21:48
lcuk	infobot knows everything	21:48
infobot	Yes, I do, lcuk.	21:48
johnx	sadly I'm pretty sure that camera doesn't have any way to access the actualy camera part from linux :/	21:49
Meiz_n810	infobot, what colour is green?	21:49
infobot	Meiz_n810: what are you talking about?	21:49
johnx	that makes it much less cool in my book	21:49
Meiz_n810	hehee	21:49
wazd	infobot, do you copy?	21:49
infobot	yes, I copy.	21:49
RST38h	johnx: http://www.myloforums.net/forums/forumdisplay.php?f=37	21:50
wazd	infobot, good :)	21:50
infobot	Good :), good! Have a cookie... oh no! The cookie jar is dry!	21:50
RST38h	lcuk: Need help with assembly?	21:50
lcuk	RST38h, i was asking earlier, it would be beneficial if we could get libliqbase core functions even faster	21:50
lcuk	now im almost ready with the api any help to that end would be great (so i can get on with buildign the examples for the lib)	21:51
wazd	Damn, so much crappy designs are patented!	21:51
RST38h	lcuk: Well, I probably won't be able to write the whole thing for you but I can show you how to get started	21:51
lcuk	RST38h, ssvb, the only problem i see with asm is that currently the code works and is v fast on both arm and x86	21:52
lcuk	yeah rst, well ssvb has just pasted a nice looking stretchblit that can probably be moulded	21:52
RST38h	lcuk: but you said your stretchblt and blend are slow?	21:52
lcuk	i was wondering though earlier how to do rotation blits	21:52
lcuk	yeah they are	21:52
lcuk	slower than i would like	21:53
lcuk	but certainly not slouches :)	21:53
RST38h	mmm ok	21:53
RST38h	Anyway, if you want to get started with assembler on Maemo let me know	21:54
johnx	RST38h, terrifying! there's progress since the last time I checked in on those guys	21:54
lcuk	i most certainly will, when i put this stretchblit func in ill prob start tearing my hair out :) ill make sure everything is on svn before i start so we can coordinate	21:54
* lcuk is pleased hes spent time making the lib, its going to be easier to work with from different angles :)		21:55
johnx	ok, spoke too soon: no progress on the mylo2 at all	21:56
ciroip	like I told you lcuk: for a good programmer quality is not an option :)	21:56
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ssvb	lcuk: rotation blits need to be cache friendly, this way they can be fast	21:56
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lcuk	heh yeah ssvb, i know its entirely possible to get them fast(ish) - i just want to use the multitouch to better effect ;)	21:57
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wazd	So good to have 10 gigs instead of 2 again	21:59
wazd	Guys, is there any way to pair win explorer with ssh?	22:00
ssvb	lcuk: this scaler code should work fine as-is on both ARM and x86, it automatically uses assembly optimizations when you compile it for ARM	22:00
qwerty12_N800	wazd, no freeware ways	22:00
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lcuk	im just reading through it now, its optimized for 16bit pixels	22:01
ssvb	lcuk: there is one pitfall - stride is measured in bytes, so you may spend some time figuring how to call it right	22:01
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ssvb	lcuk: yes, it is used for 16 bit pixels, what implementation do you need?	22:02
lcuk	8bit - ive got the 3 planes (1full + 2half)	22:02
glass	wazd: dokan sshfs	22:02
lcuk	i considered looking around the demo scene for their mode 15h blit routines from vga days	22:03
glass	wazd: if you're wanting to mount ssh as a drive in windws	22:03
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ssvb	lcuk: hmm, I see, it may need some modification to work with 8-bit pixels, but nothing too complex	22:03
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glass	qwerty12_N800: dokan is free	22:03
lcuk	yeah ill probably extract it all out, make sure the asm ops themselves build in and work for single pixel then unroll	22:03
glass	also for 64bit windows	22:03
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qwerty12_N800	glass, wicked, didn't know it existed :). thanks	22:04
qwerty12_N800	Ah, it wasn't around when I googled for the same	22:04
glass	qwerty12_N800: i just found it like 2 weeks ago :p	22:04
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glass	qwerty12_N800: while googling for that commercial one actually..	22:05
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qwerty12_N800	glass, I wasn't looking a few weeks ago :D	22:05
wazd	glass: whoa, thanks!	22:05
qwerty12_N800	No, i'm bs'ing, my google fu sucks	22:05
lcuk	ssvb, probably easier for me to get the lib out first and then we can see what needs doing	22:06
lcuk	im gonna vanish and get some more done	22:07
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* johnx gets sidetracked, looks at other hackable linux machines		22:08
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johnx	zipit z2 w/ 32MB of RAM for $45 O_o	22:08
r2d2rogers	advanced backlight question... does anyone have the png files that have 5 in the following x spot? adv-backlight-icon-6.x.u.png	22:08
wazd	http://img407.imageshack.us/img407/1360/microstcew092if1.jpg - lol	22:10
ciroip	well, wazd, I was waiting to meet someone who noticied that	22:10
qwerty12_N800	wazd, i knew win 7 was new - but not that new :)	22:11
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wazd	damn, now I hate ms(	22:11
Stskeeps	wazd: that your wallpaper or theirs? ;)	22:11
woglinde	hi	22:11
qwerty12_N800	hi woglinde	22:11
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ciroip	stsk: it came with windows 7	22:12
Stskeeps	hehe	22:12
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ciroip	there is a version with the swimming fish too	22:12
ciroip	actually pretty cute :)	22:12
Stskeeps	ciroip: well.. did you see the Mer artwork?	22:13
ciroip	not at all	22:13
Stskeeps	http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2009/01/12/repos-a-la-mer/	22:13
ciroip	im disstracted in my own world for now	22:13
Stskeeps	which explains why wazd hates MS ;)	22:13
wazd	that's a real fuck up	22:14
ciroip	well, I saw that wallpaper :)	22:14
wazd	uber fuck up	22:14
wazd	goddamn(	22:14
ciroip	I laugh for 10 minuts when I saw the windows 7 installation	22:14
Stskeeps	it uses that wallpaper? :P	22:14
ciroip	because Im pretty sure is in the installation progress, not a simple wallpaper	22:14
ciroip	yep stks	22:15
aquatix	sue mickeysoft!	22:15
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Corsac	well, think about the midori guy	22:15
ciroip	well, we should analyze the pixelby pixle comparison	22:15
aquatix	Corsac: hm?	22:15
wazd	how the heck should a knew bout that(	22:15
Corsac	aquatix: OMG, you here@!	22:15
aquatix	Corsac: are you following me around?	22:16
Corsac	aquatix: midori is the codename for windows7 iirc	22:16
Corsac	aquatix: sure	22:16
aquatix	oh lol	22:16
Stskeeps	wazd: hehe.. i think we can continue with the artwork though :)	22:16
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aquatix	Stskeeps: i don't see why not indeed	22:16
aquatix	too bad if it's seen as art ripoff by users though	22:16
Stskeeps	there's been plenty of artwork like that on christian postcards	22:17
Stskeeps	with the sun reaching through the dark skies	22:17
Stskeeps	;)	22:17
aquatix	g	22:17
aquatix	how.. enlightening	22:17
ciroip	someone know Andrew Zhilin?	22:18
qwerty12_N800	yes :p	22:18
X-Fade	ciroip: Sure ;)	22:18
wazd	no	22:18
woglinde	he x-fade	22:18
wazd	xD	22:18
* X-Fade watches ciroip getting in a fun situation now ;)		22:18
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qwerty12_N800	hehe	22:18
ciroip	well, I didnt know was here around...	22:18
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wazd	I think that Andrew Zhilin just copied stuff!	22:19
wazd	Bastard	22:19
ciroip	Im used to found myself in funny situations without know how	22:19
wazd	But whatever, it's the sea, it's nice, fuck off MS!)	22:20
wazd	And it looks way better btw :D	22:20
ciroip	a person with a z and an h in the surname cant be trust	22:21
wazd	ciroip: true	22:21
StOrM_NW	i m trying to add a new account using the control panel for sip service and for all sip provider that i put on the account setup ... i m always getting the message "Unable to connect to one or more accounts" ... is the Account manager in maemo only working with gtalk? or i can use it also with sip	22:21
ciroip	do exist an higher resolution on web?	22:22
wazd	I have 1920x1200	22:22
wazd	And I have .psd :P	22:23
wazd	fuck, that's a real shame( Now everybody thinks that it's a copycat(	22:23
ciroip	ok wazd is not a wallpaper, is on the ctrl=alt+del login page	22:23
ciroip	and is scary similar	22:23
ciroip	yep\	22:24
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ciroip	I thinked your was the copy	22:24
wazd	ciroip, well, actually theres only "light from above" concept that's simmilar	22:24
ciroip	lol, is freaking similar	22:25
wazd	mine's more detailed)	22:26
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wazd	fuck, what a shame	22:28
Stskeeps	add in a nokia tire on the bottom.. ;)	22:28
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RST38h	Sts: with the Crazy Fish (tm)	22:29
Stskeeps	or a gravestone with "fuck ms web designers"	22:29
Stskeeps	s/web//	22:30
infobot	Stskeeps meant: or a gravestone with "fuck ms designers"	22:30
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wazd	ok, let's try another one	22:34
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Stskeeps	hehe, i hope you don't have to reconstruct every single artwork though	22:34
wazd	Actualy I have)	22:34
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Stskeeps	wazd: as revenge we can always go with andrewfblack's XP theme,, ;> (http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=22641)	22:38
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ciroip	stsk.............	22:39
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Stskeeps	ciroip: just call me sts :)	22:39
wazd	It's actualy not so difficult to make another wallpaper, maybe even better than the current one	22:39
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ciroip	whatever, sts, it seem pidgin dont have the tab complete things so sorry for f the name all the time	22:40
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Stskeeps	ciroip: hehe, it's fine :) friends call me sts	22:40
wazd	The weirdest thing is this fucking similarity and that I haven't seen Win 7 before	22:40
w00t	and his girlfriend calls him "sweetiepie"	22:40
* w00t runs		22:40
qwerty12_N800	stsexy? :P	22:41
* qwerty12_N800 joins w00t in running		22:41
ciroip	yes, wazd, no ashame on me to think u were mocking up	22:41
Stskeeps	wazd: it isn't unreasonable that great minds think alike :)	22:42
aquatix	qwerty12_N800: :)	22:42
RST38h	SCO Group has announced plans to auction off its Unix and mobile products to ensure their survival while continuing its long-running fight over alleged violations of its IP in Linux.	22:42
aquatix	Stskeeps: you say they have great minds at mickeysoft?	22:42
RST38h	It's alive, IT'S ALIVE!	22:43
johnx	RST38h, does anyone still use SCO Unix after all this?	22:43
* qwerty12_N800 remembers when caldera was seen as decent..		22:44
johnx	qwerty12_N800, yup. they really played this one wrong though :/	22:44
qwerty12_N800	johnx, definatly :/	22:45
qwerty12_N800	~spell definatly	22:45
infobot	possible spellings for definatly: defiantly definitely definably definable	22:45
RST38h	johnx: Someone probably does...	22:46
RST38h	johnx: in a universe far far away	22:46
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johnx	RST38h, yeah, but that was long ago	22:47
RST38h	johnx: The important thing now is to sue everyone using Linux!	22:47
pupnik	i'd like to kick anyone running windows in the god damn teeth	22:47
johnx	RST38h, heh... even MS stopped making noises about doing that	22:48
RST38h	johnx: This will be the mighty holy grail from which SCO executives will drink the elixir of the eternal youth	22:48
johnx	pupnik, I would take it as a kindness if you didn't kick my wife in the teeth	22:48
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qwerty12_N800	pupnik, I have dual boot, does that mean i'll only get kicked in the balls instead :)	22:48
RST38h	johnx: And live forever, nauseating us all with their poisonous farts	22:48
johnx	RST38h, the elixir known as "transparent pump n' dump scheme gone horribly out of control"	22:49
RST38h	johnx: I can amost bet that at least some of their top managers will end up in an asylum eventually	22:50
johnx	RST38h, that would be a disgrace to dangerous lunatics everywhere	22:51
pupnik	dangerous lunatics would be a nice band name	22:52
RST38h	johnx: no, the "kill Linus Torvalds for taking my business model away" thing isn't that bad as far as manias go	22:52
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pupnik	i feel like the soup nazi sometimes	22:53
pupnik	NO SOUP FOR YOU	22:53
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johnx	pupnik, soup nazi and the dangerous lunatics!	22:53
woglinde	soup nazis?	22:54
johnx	RST38h, it's not the plan so much as the stubbornness that pegs them as more than run of the mill psychos	22:54
RST38h	pupnik: BTW, I once wondered, is Fatherland the movie allowed for showing in .DE? (http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0109779/)	22:55
johnx	RST38h, the RIAA trials began and ended inside the time that it took SCO to keep up their random flailing	22:55
wazd	ok, beware microsoft	22:55
wazd	Act 2\	22:55
RST38h	pupnik: it is kind of a border case	22:55
johnx	woglinde, from Seinfield, an American comedy show	22:56
Stskeeps	johnx: curious. maemo doesn't have /usr/share/icons/hildon	22:57
johnx	Stskeeps, yeah, I wonder if that folder was adopted in an attempt to debian-ify things	22:58
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Stskeeps	johnx: ah. the magic solution to all life's problems	23:03
Stskeeps	gtk-update-icon-cache /usr/share/icons/hicolor	23:03
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* Stskeeps takes nice screenshots		23:03
johnx	ah yes, the panacea	23:03
qwerty12_N800	you'll wanna specify -f	23:04
* johnx wonders if he can assume all maemo themes will include a wallpaper		23:04
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Stskeeps	yeah	23:05
Stskeeps	network-manager-gnome so needs a good hildonizing	23:06
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johnx	it will be a huge asset on other platforms too :)	23:06
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Stskeeps	so, we decided to go back to xorg	23:08
* Stskeeps ponders what else to change in imager		23:08
johnx	if we need to hack stuff up to play nice with xomap then I don't see a point in using it	23:09
Stskeeps	yeah	23:09
johnx	if better omapfb support fails to materialize we can go back later, but for now it works	23:09
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r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: got the fstab change for the 770?	23:11
Stskeeps	no, but i'll change it now	23:11
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r2d2rogers	thanks	23:11
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Stskeeps	johnx: should i include network-manager-gnome in next image then?	23:13
johnx	Stskeeps, yes, I think so	23:13
johnx	any reason not to?	23:13
Stskeeps	"gweather"	23:13
Stskeeps	:P	23:13
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: i think it's in the 770 one	23:13
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: sure we want swap line in there or do we just assume they will have swap on p2?	23:14
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johnx	Stskeeps, it crashes without that huh?	23:14
Stskeeps	johnx: probably.	23:14
johnx	blargh	23:14
r2d2rogers	I think we sould require it for the 770	23:14
woglinde	I wonder when mer is switching to ubifs	23:15
woglinde	g	23:15
Stskeeps	woglinde: when we can have sound on n800 and the agreement on distributing initfs images comes through	23:15
Stskeeps	basically	23:15
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jpt9	Hey.	23:15
Stskeeps	wello	23:15
jpt9	I have a 770 running 2007HE...	23:15
jpt9	I also have a Palm with a terminal app that can use Bluetooth serial...	23:15
jpt9	Is there any way to rig up a virtual serial port on the Nokia so I can use the shell remotely?	23:16
jpt9	(Yeah, I know. It's silly.)	23:16
Stskeeps	does Palm do PAN?	23:16
Stskeeps	also a possibility	23:16
jpt9	Not sure.	23:16
r2d2rogers	jpt9: should be doable, you have root ?	23:16
jpt9	via ssh, yes.	23:16
r2d2rogers	if nothing else, pair and hcitoolll to get a /dev/rfcom0 etc	23:17
r2d2rogers	should be a serial terminal link	23:17
r2d2rogers	bey9ond that.,.. which way you want to have the terminal log show up?	23:17
r2d2rogers	needs getty?	23:17
jpt9	What do you mean?	23:17
Stskeeps	johnx: i think i'll have it in the nokia tablet targets for now	23:18
* r2d2rogers needs a nap and is probably rambling...		23:18
Andrewfblack	looks like spammers will never give up on itT I wonder if anyone ever really buys stuff from them they must or they would stop lol	23:18
Stskeeps	johnx: oh, one thing, nm-applet needs to be run in hildon-desktop-env :/	23:18
r2d2rogers	jpt9: do you want to be typing from thepalm or the 770?	23:18
jpt9	I want to be typing from the palm.	23:18
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Stskeeps	johnx: before hildon-desktop	23:18
johnx	k	23:18
jpt9	Basically, a remote terminal.	23:18
r2d2rogers	jpt9: got it... thinking	23:19
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: Mer? ;>	23:19
r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: yup	23:19
r2d2rogers	jpt9: got an extra MMC laying around? <G> 1 gig or larger?	23:19
jpt9	nope :-(	23:19
jpt9	Just the original 64MB one full of ebooks.	23:20
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jpt9	why?	23:20
r2d2rogers	you stumbled into some active work on a community edition OS for the NITs called Mer	23:20
r2d2rogers	based on Ubuntu	23:20
Stskeeps	including the 770s :P	23:20
jpt9	Ah.	23:20
r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: am I right so far? <G>	23:20
* jpt9 does a doubletake... UBUNTU?!		23:20
r2d2rogers	yeah I'm the 770 tester so far	23:20
jpt9	on an n770?!	23:21
r2d2rogers	uh huh	23:21
Stskeeps	jpt9: it's not the full gnome desktop, but we run a hildon desktop on top	23:21
jpt9	Well, I kind of have it set up how I like it... and I'm not sure how many of the repositories are still up...	23:21
jpt9	Ah.	23:21
Stskeeps	LXDE has worked in the past though	23:21
jpt9	If it's non-destructive, I have been meaning to get another card...	23:21
r2d2rogers	yup	23:21
jpt9	If I did want a bigger memory card, what would I want? 1GB MMCmobile? Can I get a bigger one?	23:21
r2d2rogers	grab a 2 gig or hack up a microsd to mmc adapter	23:21
r2d2rogers	I plan on grabbing some of these at some point: http://www.dealextreme.com/details.dx/sku.5091	23:22
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r2d2rogers	cut off the USB part and it's a dandy adapter with no hacking on your 770	23:22
* jpt9 has really gotta get a Linux box...		23:22
jpt9	I mean, I have a 770, an OLPC...	23:23
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r2d2rogers	jpt9: where you from?	23:23
jpt9	well, I'm at RPI right now.	23:23
jpt9	Would this work: http://www.amazon.com/Transcend-TS1GRMMC4-Volate-Multimedia-Mobile/dp/B000E40RBO/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1231881729&sr=8-1	23:23
jpt9	wait a sec...	23:24
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jpt9	the pic is wrong...	23:24
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r2d2rogers	I have a kensington I think	23:24
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r2d2rogers	if it's the half size then that'd work	23:24
Shadow_M	i wish i could put more space on my n810 than an 8 gig minisd	23:25
jpt9	I'm trying to find some on Amazon... I'm also getting an 8GB microSDHC card for my Sansa e250R...	23:25
Stskeeps	Shadow_M: eh, doesn't it fit 32gb? or is that just n800 SD?	23:25
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Stskeeps	does anyone happen to know if you can stop gnome-keyring from being so bloody obnoxious?	23:25
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Stskeeps	and ask you to password your keyring and all that stuff	23:25
r2d2rogers	jpt9: the advantage of the adapter is more availability and capacity for the microsd cards	23:26
Shadow_M	Stskeeps, thats the 800 n810 has 2 gig internal and one mini sd	23:26
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jpt9	Ah.	23:26
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r2d2rogers	jpt9: are you running the kernel from Fanoush?	23:26
r2d2rogers	prolly not of you just have the 64 meg card?	23:26
jpt9	no.	23:27
jpt9	It's full of ebooks.	23:27
jpt9	FBReader is awesome.	23:27
r2d2rogers	if you puch that kernel on the 770 you could go up to the 8 or more gig cards you can get as microsd	23:28
r2d2rogers	jpt9: yessir	23:28
Stskeeps	johnx: curious fact	23:33
Stskeeps	fremantle SDK seems like it has the locales screwed up too	23:33
Stskeeps	just looking at yerga's widgets	23:33
Corsac	mhm, nowadays is it needed to use binary only modules on n810?	23:33
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Stskeeps	Corsac: there are various blobs (battery handling, wifi firmware), but no, there's a open source wifi driver	23:34
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Corsac	so one can use whatever kernel he wants and still have a usable device?	23:35
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johnx	Corsac, we're very close to that :)	23:37
Corsac	wow, that's cool	23:37
RST38h	45fps!	23:39
RST38h	With almost perfect sound!	23:39
johnx	RST38h, what is?	23:39
RST38h	I can actually do 62-71fps if I disable display ipdates	23:39
RST38h	GBA emulation	23:39
johnx	on the n8x0?!	23:39
RST38h	ARMonARM enabled, 360MHz clock set	23:39
RST38h	johnx: I kinda suspect that it does the same or better on n8x0 but have to measure	23:40
johnx	!!	23:41
johnx	I would also like to add "fuck yes"	23:41
Stskeeps	there goes your need for a pandora, or? :P	23:41
RST38h	you can measure yourself - turn fps display on, turn input cues off, turn all special effects off and go full screen	23:42
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johnx	$330 for a real d-pad...	23:42
RST38h	multiply fps count you see by 3	23:42
Stskeeps	johnx: make a usb one?	23:42
Stskeeps	:P	23:42
RST38h	Sts: I never needed Pandora	23:42
johnx	RST38h, yeah, should be 30+ at any rate	23:42
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Stskeeps	RST38h: was to johnx :)	23:42
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* Stskeeps boots mer up again and hopes he can ssh into it on wireless		23:45
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Stskeeps	root@carsten-tablet	23:47
Stskeeps	woo	23:47
woglinde	hehe	23:47
wazd	Stskeeps: how bout that: http://s41.radikal.ru/i091/0901/47/8ff3940bdd62.jpg	23:48
wazd	not finished ofcourse	23:48
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Stskeeps	wazd: hehe, at least it doesn't look like Windows 7 ;)	23:48
wazd	:(	23:49
Stskeeps	(i like it)	23:49
qwerty12_N800	wazd, i'd take that as a compliment :p	23:49
Stskeeps	at least, since it's sea.. we have endless possibilities for wallpapers	23:49
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* wazd started to search for fucking wallpapers of that fucking OSes		23:50
Corsac	next to the regular ones	23:51
Stskeeps	http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer0.6b/ <- new screenshots	23:52
RST38h	Sts,wazd: better fix that ugly titan theme	23:52
wazd	ah, no way, I will not try to prove anybody anything	23:52
RST38h	metal-gray rectangles suck	23:52
wazd	RST38h: what's wrong with Titan?)	23:53
Stskeeps	RST38h: hehe, for now it works	23:53
Stskeeps	compared to other themes	23:53
RST38h	wazd: ugly, remind me of Motif	23:53
RST38h	reminds	23:53
qwerty12_N800	Stskeeps, that's badass. Here's to hoping that nm works better on my tablet then it does on my desktop ;)	23:54
Stskeeps	qwerty12_N800: figure out how to get gnome-keyring out of my face..	23:54
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Stskeeps	i dont want to have something asking me about a bloody keyring password on my tablet..	23:54
wazd	RST38h: whoa, didn't know it's that bad actualy :)	23:54
r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: change it to the login password	23:54
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r2d2rogers	the login keyring	23:55
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: except we don't have a login password.. ;)	23:55
r2d2rogers	hmmmm	23:55
RST38h	wazd: check the screenshots =)	23:55
aquatix	well, then it's rather unpossible i think	23:55
qwerty12_N800	Stskeeps, is hackzoring gnome-keyring a option? :)	23:55
Stskeeps	qwerty12_N800: gconf is a way too	23:56
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wazd	RST38h: I know what's Motif :)	23:56
wazd	RST38h: Well, that's really not the best example of using gray color)	23:56
qwerty12_N800	gconf worked well in deblet with gksu being anal retentive, is there a option in gconf for -keyring?	23:57
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