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| Saviq | guys, any idea why maemo-mapper would suddenly stop liking route files created by GMapToGPX | 00:09 |
|---|---|---|
| Saviq | ? | 00:09 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: whoa) | 00:15 |
| wazd | Saviq: no( | 00:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | <h4> is no different than <h3> | 00:25 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: http://s48.radikal.ru/i122/0901/67/449c40bab6d0.jpg - some logo concept | 00:43 |
| wazd | looks bad but still) | 00:43 |
| Stskeeps | still quite neat though :) | 00:43 |
| b-man | (random comment) - wow, in a preod of only 2 weeks it went from 70 F to 16 F with 7+ inches of snow :p | 00:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, put a Nokia shark swimming down below? :P | 00:44 |
| wazd | xD | 00:45 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: or a nokia tire at the bottom of the sea.. | 00:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 00:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, actually, it looks quite cool | 00:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | But I've always preferred cleaner stuff. | 00:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Clean like: http://tabletui.wordpress.com/2008/07/20/lets-talk/ | 00:47 |
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| Stskeeps | like his own page? ;) | 00:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, yes, that's why I'm referencing it. :P | 00:48 |
| RST38h | More information on Palm Pre SDK is released | 00:48 |
| RST38h | http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/10/palms-app-store-christened-app-catalog-games-not-a-priority/ | 00:48 |
| wazd | If you're talking bout logo, I love it too) | 00:48 |
| RST38h | wazd: [la] Mer! | 00:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | The small bubble at the bottom looks like an ® | 00:49 |
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| Stskeeps | mer, the ecosystem for fishy things.. | 00:49 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 00:49 |
| b-man | lol | 00:49 |
| RST38h | Sts: Actually, this screen should show each available package update as a fish | 00:50 |
| RST38h | Sts: The bigger update file is, the bigger should be the fish | 00:50 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 00:50 |
| RST38h | And if there are no updates, the ocean should be gradually getting darker each week | 00:51 |
| wazd | online english dictionary said that "Mer" is somehow a "Mars rider" :D | 00:51 |
| wazd | RST38h: And become filled with junk) | 00:52 |
| Stskeeps | 'the repeating structural unit of a polymer .often prefixed with a number indicating thenumber of units in the polymer mers' | 00:52 |
| wazd | like sinked fregs'n'stuff) | 00:52 |
| Stskeeps | heh | 00:52 |
| RST38h | wazd: only if you have got broken dependencies or pacjages held back | 00:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, that's when Nokia releases an update. ;) | 00:52 |
| wazd | Palm sucked on industrial design again | 00:54 |
| wazd | And the main reason is fear | 00:54 |
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| wazd | You've made a device that looks like a stone | 00:54 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: i like the principle of the logo though, simplistic but straight to the point. Maybe 'mer' instead of 'MeR"? | 00:54 |
| wazd | Make it feel like a stone | 00:54 |
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| Stskeeps | or Mer | 00:54 |
| RST38h | wazd: So that you can kill with it! | 00:55 |
| wazd | Sts, well, i thought of that, I said that it looks like crap)) | 00:55 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: hehe ;> | 00:55 |
| wazd | RST38h: Motorola has a phone with stone textured metal | 00:55 |
| RST38h | wazd: Didn't do Motorola any good. | 00:55 |
| wazd | RST38h: it was superawesome just to hold it | 00:56 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: the splash screen could be the logo swimming across the screen.. | 00:56 |
| * RST38h seen it, didn't experience much awesomeness though | 00:56 | |
| Stskeeps | ;> | 00:56 |
| wazd | RST38h: well, Moto sucked at software too hard | 00:56 |
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| * RST38h still wants his StarTrek datapad | 00:56 | |
| wazd | Well, still it was much better than cheap glossy plasic | 00:57 |
| RST38h | Screw the stony textures, the shiny parts, the white glossy parts, just give me a plain datapad made of robust ugly plastic | 00:57 |
| wazd | RST38h: transparent plastic)) | 00:58 |
| RST38h | wazd: yea, right, bluish transparent plastic and blue LEDs... | 00:58 |
| RST38h | wazd: The evil offspring of the original iMac | 00:58 |
| wazd | RST38h: I'm already in fear :) | 00:59 |
| RST38h | wazd: Fortunately, the bluish transparent stuff is mostly gone and the blue LEDs are dying out too | 01:00 |
| RST38h | Even the silvery crap is going away (BBK stopped using it recently) | 01:00 |
| wazd | Sts: It's nice to have some visual concept to stand on | 01:01 |
| wazd | Sts: You can play with some things | 01:02 |
| wazd | Sts: Maemo logo was hard to produce | 01:02 |
| wazd | Sts: Since nobody knows what the hell maemo is :) | 01:02 |
| Stskeeps | hehe :) | 01:03 |
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| Stskeeps | and mer is a place you can drown and die.. :P | 01:03 |
| wazd | Sts: And when the name is senseless, the logo is senseless too | 01:03 |
| wazd | Sts: or you going there on holidays to relax with margarita :) | 01:04 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 01:04 |
| wazd | you can't go to maemo on holidays obviously :) | 01:04 |
| RST38h | Just #define maemo as something useful and pleasant | 01:05 |
| * Stskeeps ponders why on earth he has to add -Wl,-rpath=/usr/lib , shrugs, and goes back to building | 01:08 | |
| RST38h | BTW, am I the only one having problems connecting to GMail with the latest Modest? | 01:08 |
| RST38h | Hmm...and POP3 accounts too. It regularly pops out a dialog asking me to change the password | 01:09 |
| wazd | RST38h: in fact latest Modest was the only that I've paired with my gmail | 01:11 |
| wazd | RST38h: always got same pop-up earlier | 01:11 |
| RST38h | What do I do? I forces me to retype passwords | 01:13 |
| RST38h | s/I/it | 01:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, somebody remember to bug X-Fade about fixing http://maemo.org/maemo-meeting | 01:14 |
| Stskeeps | hmm? he put up the log | 01:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | MER | 01:14 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 01:14 |
| Stskeeps | well we're not even sure what it means .. ;> | 01:14 |
| Stskeeps | Mutually Ensured Reconstruction? .. | 01:15 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 01:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, it sure aint an acronym. :P | 01:15 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 01:15 |
| * Stskeeps wonders what hildon-desktop-multiscreen is | 01:17 | |
| wazd | switchable homescreen?) | 01:18 |
| wazd | like virtual desktops | 01:18 |
| qwerty12_N800 | something for tv out? | 01:18 |
| timeless | hello | 01:18 |
| timeless | oops | 01:18 |
| wazd | hey | 01:18 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: dunno, maybe. was from 2006 so :P | 01:19 |
| Stskeeps | i get way more intimate with some of the pieces than i would really like to. | 01:19 |
| wazd | Well, they planned to make multiple homescreens somewhere | 01:19 |
| * qwerty12_N800 throws his theory out the window | 01:19 | |
| wazd | On one of the slides | 01:19 |
| wazd | Don't throw TV out, it's awesome)) | 01:20 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hehe | 01:20 |
| wazd | though I haven't got TV with HDMI | 01:21 |
| Stskeeps | ~seen johnx | 01:21 |
| infobot | johnx <n=john@p2172-ipbf2302hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 17h 45m 24s ago, saying: 'infobot, poke rm_you'. | 01:21 |
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| wazd | infobot, poke Stskeeps | 01:24 |
| * infobot cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind Stskeeps, pokes Stskeeps repeatedly, hilarity ensues. | 01:24 | |
| wazd | :D | 01:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | It'd be great if Hildon were in a state where you could just apt-get install hildon and everything would work. | 01:24 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 01:24 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: in which scenario? | 01:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, after you've installed Ubuntu on your UMPC | 01:24 |
| wazd | General: everything in a whole world :) | 01:24 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: technically you can already, but its not a good enough hildon on it :P | 01:25 |
| wazd | General: just install hildon :) | 01:25 |
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| GeneralAntilles | It wouldn't spaz out at a non-800x480 resolution | 01:25 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, remember the laptop screenshots with Hildon Desktop? | 01:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Basically, I want that. | 01:25 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, i do | 01:25 |
| RST38h | A real fan | 01:26 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: i'm inclined to think it isn't impossible though. its a matter of adjusting layouts, i think | 01:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Oh, sure, it's perfectly possible. | 01:26 |
| Stskeeps | that, or we get some of the hildon guys drunk and ask how it worked | 01:26 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 01:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | I just want it to be working and done with right now. :P | 01:26 |
| RST38h | Doesn't Hildon desktop scale well? It seems to survive rotation just fine | 01:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Er, "fine"? | 01:26 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: my idea is to make Mer installable on UMPCs too :P | 01:26 |
| RST38h | General: Well, no obvious visual glitches | 01:27 |
| wazd | Well, it hasn't crashed) | 01:27 |
| wazd | That's fine) | 01:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, statusbar folds over on itself, taskbar applets aren't placed correctly | 01:27 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Menu is cut-off | 01:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://blogs.gnome.org/lucasr/2007/02/09/hildon-desktop-scalability/ | 01:28 |
| RST38h | General: But the desktop at least draws itself right | 01:28 |
| * RST38h wouldn't expect that much | 01:28 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, if we have it to where it works like that, I think adoption rates will go up. | 01:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which means more Hildon-friendly applications for us! :D | 01:28 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: i have mer on a atom board at work.. :P | 01:28 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps, you probably wouldn't need to get him drunk. the guy running it on the laptop doesn't work for nokia anymore | 01:30 |
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| Stskeeps | mm | 01:32 |
| wazd | qwerty: he was fired after this post?) | 01:32 |
| qwerty12_N800 | wazd, no idea :D | 01:32 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: i'm trying to find out where the initial theme is set in maemo, any clues? | 01:32 |
| Stskeeps | er, not theme, background image | 01:32 |
| qwerty12_N800 | something must read /usr/share/backgrounds/default.desktop, I'll try and figure it out | 01:35 |
| Stskeeps | k | 01:35 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, hildon-desktop | 01:35 |
| qwerty12_N800 | yep, so I guess just edit that :) | 01:36 |
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| Stskeeps | oh, so that's what purpose hildon-application-framework has O_o | 01:38 |
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| wazd | http://s43.radikal.ru/i101/0901/14/c233994e04ca.jpg here's latest one wallpaper if you plan to implement it right now) | 01:41 |
| Stskeeps | i was -just- about to ask :) | 01:41 |
| Stskeeps | is it okay i merge it with the titan theme for now? | 01:42 |
| wazd | NO YOU CAN'T!!!11 | 01:42 |
| wazd | ofcourse it's ok) | 01:43 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 01:43 |
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| wazd | http://s46.radikal.ru/i112/0901/12/a4fb6aff7645.jpg - 1920x1200 version for fanboys :D | 01:46 |
| wazd | oh, I see the glitch) | 01:46 |
| Stskeeps | glitch? | 01:47 |
| wazd | yep, look at the bottom) | 01:47 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | the c thing? | 01:47 |
| wazd | it's "e" in fact) | 01:48 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 01:48 |
| qwerty12_N800 | s/c/e/ | 01:48 |
| infobot | qwerty12_N800 meant: the e thing? | 01:48 |
| qwerty12_N800 | :p | 01:48 |
| wazd | http://s60.radikal.ru/i170/0901/b5/b8233e40783f.jpg | 01:48 |
| wazd | here's the right one | 01:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Lower the compression a bit. | 01:56 |
| wazd | it's not the compression I think | 01:58 |
| wazd | it's too much colors( | 01:58 |
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| wazd | Gradient "ladders" are visible | 01:59 |
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| lcuk | wazd, you should know to store something like that as png | 02:01 |
| wazd | lcuk: that's not hte format problem | 02:02 |
| wazd | lcuk: I have .psd opened and it shows the same | 02:02 |
| wazd | thats because of small-steped gradients on large space | 02:03 |
| Grackle | I think it's just the way photoshop rendered it. | 02:03 |
| Grackle | yeah | 02:03 |
| Grackle | It does not look like a dithering problem or a compression problem | 02:04 |
| lcuk | ok, where did the photoshop come from.. | 02:04 |
| Grackle | Well, there are some artifacts in the very dark areas. | 02:04 |
| Grackle | And some ugly dithering but I think that's my screen and not the image. | 02:05 |
| * Grackle is 3" away from his screen to see that, so :P | 02:05 | |
| lcuk | its showing gradient changes of 2 units at a time and when its changing both blue and green its a visible step, it just so happens that jpeg renders the UV frames at half resolution so a totally smooth original source would end up with the stepping by default | 02:06 |
| pupnik | got fat, got angry, started hating myself | 02:06 |
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| lcuk | if this image has been produced by an algo in photoshop thats one thing, but im betting the original source was a jpeg | 02:06 |
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| jakemaheu | i'm lonely | 02:08 |
| lcuk | write your own linux based cyber lovebot | 02:08 |
| lcuk | you could mod the robot puppy project and get your NIT to be its dreamy eyes | 02:08 |
| jakemaheu | you scare me more each day | 02:09 |
| lcuk | i aim to please :) | 02:09 |
| jakemaheu | kinky | 02:09 |
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| tehforum | Hello | 02:10 |
| tehforum | test | 02:11 |
| Stskeeps | pong | 02:11 |
| tehforum | ping | 02:11 |
| jakemaheu | pong | 02:12 |
| tehforum | pingy pongy | 02:12 |
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| jakemaheu | who's getting the windows 7 beta? | 02:12 |
| jakemaheu | i am! | 02:12 |
| jakemaheu | plus i got a key | 02:12 |
| wazd | lcuk: original source was plain white file) | 02:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | #windows | 02:13 |
| *** Grackle has quit IRC | 02:14 | |
| lcuk | am i right with the windows vista thing, have microsoft just given away vista? | 02:14 |
| *** Grackle has joined #maemo | 02:14 | |
| lcuk | 7 ^ | 02:14 |
| wazd | I've downloaded Win7 but haen't installed it yet | 02:14 |
| tehforum | it's taking ages to download | 02:14 |
| wazd | need usb-flash to install on my HP mini | 02:14 |
| tehforum | i paused it at 40percent | 02:14 |
| wazd | Use torrents) | 02:14 |
| tehforum | what speed do you get? | 02:15 |
| wazd | I've downloaded 7000 for 40 mins or so | 02:15 |
| tehforum | and what speed is your internet connection | 02:15 |
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| * lcuk wonders why | 02:15 | |
| wazd | from russian tracker | 02:15 |
| wazd | 16 mbps | 02:15 |
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| tehforum | ah | 02:15 |
| tehforum | 8 times better than mine? | 02:15 |
| tehforum | i got 2mbps | 02:16 |
| tehforum | avg download speed 250kb/s | 02:16 |
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| GAN800 | lcuk, if they don't they're gonna be left with XP as their primary OS for another 5 years. | 02:18 |
| lcuk | nahhh its worse than that | 02:18 |
| lcuk | people are getting new computers without microsoft on at all | 02:18 |
| lcuk | the "cool" thing for people to download and play with is linux | 02:19 |
| Grackle | haha really? :| | 02:19 |
| tehforum | thats what i did | 02:19 |
| tehforum | lol | 02:19 |
| Grackle | Most people I know have used inux for a long time so I don't know of that trend. | 02:19 |
| Grackle | linux too | 02:19 |
| tehforum | I heard about Ubuntu quite a bit | 02:20 |
| tehforum | but was satisfied with xp | 02:20 |
| lcuk | i come from a windows background, im still involved in it and still have to read publications and forums n stuff relating to it all | 02:20 |
| Grackle | I think it's a good thing. More users means better support from vendors, no matter who those users are. | 02:20 |
| tehforum | but when i got my new computer, i decided to try ubuntu with a disc i requested a few months before | 02:20 |
| lcuk | ideal time isnt it :) | 02:21 |
| jakemaheu | i've tried build 6801 and it was sweet, fast (comparable to xp), and beautiful | 02:22 |
| Grackle | Is networking less of a mess in Windows 7? | 02:23 |
| Grackle | Less of a mess than it is in Vista, that is. | 02:23 |
| b-man | from my sorces, yes :) | 02:23 |
| jakemaheu | what do you mean? | 02:23 |
| Grackle | I really despise Vista's network setup utilities. I have spent hours fucking with various people's vista laptops just so we could play games. :( | 02:24 |
| Grackle | I'm sure it's not so bad if you're used to it, but it really could be made a more intuitive process. | 02:24 |
| jakemaheu | i see | 02:24 |
| jakemaheu | i've used xp since it came out | 02:24 |
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| b-man | from my information, the networking diologs have ben re-designed and they're placing it on the taskbar for easy acsess. :p | 02:25 |
| b-man | yes, i know, not enough info :p | 02:26 |
| lcuk | xp window manager still has raw speed and usability advantage over gnome or kde or others ive tried, but app wise i run OSS :) | 02:26 |
| Grackle | Hah, well I remain optimistic. | 02:26 |
| Grackle | haha usability :| | 02:26 |
| Grackle | I think you're just used to it, lcuk. | 02:26 |
| lcuk | it does what i expect it to do | 02:26 |
| Grackle | Yeah. | 02:27 |
| lcuk | no, ive got ubuntu on my x41 | 02:27 |
| * qwerty12_N800 prefers explorer.exe to nautilus | 02:27 | |
| mavhc | windows GUI has usability? | 02:27 |
| lcuk | the way windows are handled and the task bar and stuff | 02:28 |
| b-man | they look and function nicer :) | 02:28 |
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| wazd | oh, am I missing holywar?) | 02:28 |
| Grackle | I hope not, wazd | 02:28 |
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| lcuk | not really | 02:29 |
| tehforums | somehow, my originally nickname is in use | 02:29 |
| tehforums | i read about this being a "ghost" | 02:29 |
| lcuk | ghost? where? | 02:29 |
| tehforums | in your toilet? | 02:29 |
| b-man | lol | 02:30 |
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| Grackle | tehforum, if you nick is registered you can /msg nickserv ghost nick password | 02:30 |
| lcuk | no, thats a fart cloud | 02:30 |
| Grackle | and it will kick off your ghost | 02:30 |
| wazd | http://s50.radikal.ru/i129/0901/20/0ac8decf8e05.jpg | 02:30 |
| wazd | mer logo, v2 | 02:30 |
| Grackle | "ghost" being whoever is using your nick, some user or a lingering connection | 02:30 |
| jakemaheu | waz: i like it | 02:31 |
| jakemaheu | who made it? | 02:31 |
| b-man | wazd: nice | 02:31 |
| wazd | jakemaheu: Churcil) | 02:31 |
| wazd | Churchil* | 02:31 |
| jakemaheu | ah | 02:31 |
| jakemaheu | Winston? | 02:31 |
| wazd | yep | 02:31 |
| jakemaheu | sweet | 02:31 |
| jakemaheu | i wish i had zombie art | 02:32 |
| jakemaheu | he is dead, right? | 02:32 |
| wazd | he said "not quiet" :) | 02:32 |
| b-man | has timsmoff done eny work with logo designing yet? | 02:32 |
| tehforums | ghost tehforum | 02:33 |
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| tehforums | bah | 02:33 |
| wazd | place / ) | 02:33 |
| wazd | b0man: what exactly logo? | 02:33 |
| wazd | b-man* | 02:33 |
| tehforums | GHOST tehforum | 02:33 |
| wazd | wrong again | 02:33 |
| wazd | tehforums: place / in the beginning | 02:34 |
| wazd | like /ghost | 02:34 |
| tehforums | yeah i trid that as well | 02:34 |
| b-man | i ment has he tryed to design a logo for mer yet. | 02:34 |
| wazd | b-man, oh, didn't know | 02:34 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | You can't ghost an unregistered nick. | 02:34 |
| tehforums | Okay | 02:35 |
| wazd | what the heck with ghosts today | 02:35 |
| wazd | yesterday was fine | 02:35 |
| tehforums | How would I retrieve my nick back then? | 02:35 |
| wazd | no reconnections n stuff | 02:35 |
| wazd | wait a little | 02:35 |
| wazd | I had that shit too today) | 02:35 |
| tehforums | ok | 02:36 |
| tehforums | thanks | 02:36 |
| wazd | I think letters should be a bit smaller | 02:36 |
| b-man | lol | 02:38 |
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| *** tehforums is now known as tehforum | 02:39 | |
| tehforum | I got it back. :) | 02:39 |
| wazd | now register it | 02:39 |
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| wazd | infobot, are you here?) | 02:41 |
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| wazd | infobot, poke infobot | 02:41 |
| * infobot cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind infobot, pokes infobot repeatedly, hilarity ensues. | 02:41 | |
| tehforum | any other irc command i should be aware of? | 02:42 |
| wazd | ok, tomorrow plans are to make some Mer theme concepts | 02:44 |
| jakemaheu | i wanna help | 02:44 |
| jakemaheu | is there a separate channel yet?\ | 02:45 |
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| wazd | dunno | 02:45 |
| jakemaheu | yup, #mer | 02:45 |
| wazd | oh | 02:45 |
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| Stskeeps | no, not really :P | 02:45 |
| Stskeeps | most of the stuff goes in here | 02:45 |
| wazd | sts, hows the logo? | 02:46 |
| jakemaheu | ah | 02:46 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: i might be a little odd but i dislike the | that goes all the way to the top in the m :P | 02:47 |
| jakemaheu | mind if i give it a shot | 02:48 |
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| jakemaheu | i found a nice gnu-licensed that i think i can do some work with | 02:49 |
| jakemaheu | also, gimp | 02:49 |
| wazd | jakemaheu: sure | 02:49 |
| jakemaheu | sweet | 02:50 |
| jakemaheu | i'll have em up on my server later | 02:50 |
| wazd | stskeeps: you wan't something like "fedora" has?) | 02:50 |
| jakemaheu | how big? 800x480? | 02:50 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: hmm? | 02:52 |
| Stskeeps | i just meant a font with the m not having the initial | that raises higher than the curve | 02:52 |
| Stskeeps | soft m | 02:53 |
| wazd | stskeeps: got it, like maemo.org one's now) | 02:54 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 02:55 |
| Stskeeps | that m | 02:55 |
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| wazd | btw maemo.org logo has pretty hard mistake now | 02:56 |
| wazd | if you'll look at .org closely, you'll see that it's overscaled verticaly | 02:57 |
| wazd | "O" shows it quite well, it's thinner on left and right and thicker on top and bottom | 02:58 |
| Stskeeps | *nod* | 02:58 |
| wazd | not dramatical, but it's still bad thing from the designers pov :) | 02:59 |
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| samd | hey, how do i enable devel repos, i want to install abiword | 03:00 |
| samd | im in xchat in my n810 ; i love this | 03:00 |
| samd | xD | 03:00 |
| qwerty12_N800 | ~extras | 03:01 |
| infobot | methinks extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras | 03:01 |
| samd | ight ill take a look thanks | 03:01 |
| wazd | ~sleep | 03:02 |
| infobot | from memory, sleep is overrated, and a poor substitute for caffeine. | 03:02 |
| wazd | true( | 03:02 |
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| Raytray | Does anyone know how often autosync on mcalendar syncs? | 03:09 |
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| yigal | tell Raytray do you like mcalendar? | 03:20 |
| Raytray | Yes I do. I'm intending to use it as a sort of agenda book for college. | 03:20 |
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| yigal | Raytray: I will have to try it | 03:21 |
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| yigal | nice it's pretty small | 03:21 |
| samd | hey, is there any way to see ppt in maemo? | 03:21 |
| Raytray | The only problem I have with it now is the hour difference between the google calendar and itself. | 03:21 |
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| yigal | Raytray: wow, that's pretty considerable :) | 03:22 |
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| yigal | if you say 2:15 google calendar gives 3:15? | 03:23 |
| Raytray | Yeah. | 03:23 |
| yigal | same timezone? | 03:23 |
| Raytray | Yup, it's a dst bug I think. It's on their bugtracker. | 03:23 |
| yigal | Raytray: that's unacceptable to me. If I was using google calendar I wouldn't even consider this app., owell | 03:25 |
| ds3 | an | 03:25 |
| Raytray | Well I'm only using it to record homework and that sort of thing, I don't have a hard schedule to keep. Should be fixed sometime soon anyway. | 03:26 |
| * Raytray shrugs. | 03:26 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Raytray, find Khertan. :P | 03:27 |
| Raytray | He's probably asleep. :P | 03:27 |
| Raytray | Which is why I didn't bother highlighting. :D | 03:27 |
| yigal | I mean what's the use if you're trying to sync? I guess it's of use for keeping a history of past event at google calendars? | 03:27 |
| Raytray | At least, he's in #france anyway. | 03:27 |
| Raytray | yigal, well, to keep on mind what I have planned for the day. I could always add an hour in my head anyway. | 03:28 |
| Raytray | I check my tablet when I wake up to read my agenda, note the weather, and check email. | 03:28 |
| yigal | Raytray: but gpe isn't quite good enough | 03:30 |
| Raytray | Does it have a desktop "widget" for it? | 03:30 |
| yigal | it has an applet? | 03:32 |
| Raytray | mCalendar does. | 03:32 |
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| yigal | i'm too paranoid and have no use in trying to sync with google | 03:35 |
| Raytray | Well if you're not going to sync with google anyway mcalendar should do fine? | 03:36 |
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| yigal | Raytray: I want to be able to sync with evolution, can I do this? | 03:36 |
| Raytray | I do that through google calendar. I'm not exactly sure. Does gpe allow that? | 03:37 |
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| yigal | I haven't used my n800 for this purpose, but I'm interested in doing this, I've heard Conduit works for this purpose, in any event some day I'll look into it | 03:38 |
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| Raytray | Ah I see. | 03:38 |
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| jakemaheu | hey guys | 04:11 |
| jakemaheu | i made a few splashes for mer | 04:11 |
| jakemaheu | http://www.jakemaheu.com/mer/mer.html | 04:11 |
| jakemaheu | it's lousy html so that i don't have to list them on here | 04:11 |
| jakemaheu | brb | 04:12 |
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| jakemaheu | what do you guys think? | 04:14 |
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| wazd | whoa | 04:19 |
| wazd | why so heavy images? | 04:20 |
| wazd | 1.5 Mb, omg) | 04:20 |
| * b-man thinks his ubuntu jaunty install is starting to die - first, keyboard stopped working, next gnome-pannel stopped working, then nautills stoped working... now all he gets is a wallpaper :p | 04:21 | |
| wazd | http://www.jakemaheu.com/mer/Mer_3.png - how did you do that so heavy?) .png can optimize that into 3 or 4 kbs | 04:22 |
| wazd | http://s58.radikal.ru/i160/0901/6c/a9368f613294.png - I've just opened your file in PS and saved as PNG-24, it's 2kb | 04:27 |
| wazd | I think you did something very wrong with your GIMP settings | 04:28 |
| wazd | damn, wrong file | 04:29 |
| wazd | http://s54.radikal.ru/i145/0901/71/057355d8f787.png - here it is | 04:29 |
| Raytray | jakemaheu, what is mer? | 04:32 |
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| wazd | Raytray: Something very special) | 04:35 |
| Raytray | I see. Heh | 04:35 |
| Raytray | b-man, is that all in one boot or constantly in that order? o.0 | 04:35 |
| jakemaheu | wazd: i didn't use compression | 04:36 |
| jakemaheu | lol | 04:36 |
| wazd | http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint | 04:36 |
| jakemaheu | what do you think though? | 04:36 |
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| wazd | jakemaheu: well, I think it's pretty "industrial" for "sea" thematics | 04:38 |
| wazd | since "Mer" is "sea" in french :) | 04:38 |
| jakemaheu | it reminds me of a submarine; how deep we can explore | 04:38 |
| jakemaheu | into the open-source sea | 04:38 |
| jakemaheu | lol poetry | 04:39 |
| wazd | jakemaheu: whoa, interesting association :) | 04:39 |
| jakemaheu | heh | 04:39 |
| wazd | jakemaheu: try to make something smooth | 04:39 |
| jakemaheu | kay | 04:40 |
| wazd | jakemaheu: good) | 04:40 |
| jakemaheu | you mean the letters? | 04:40 |
| wazd | jakemaheu: yep | 04:40 |
| jakemaheu | okay | 04:40 |
| wazd | I gtg to sleep some time) | 04:41 |
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| limepi | hey there, I'm having trouble getting an apple bluetooth keyboard to pair with my n800--I just installed diablo | 05:12 |
| limepi | at first it gave me the error message "pairing failed device resources exceeded" | 05:12 |
| limepi | but after my reboot, it won't even let me get past the "searching" window | 05:13 |
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| * deejoe realizes he hasn't tried his apple bt keybd since upgrading | 05:25 | |
| doc|home | is canola broken? not really updating its media library for audio files for me even though I've said to look at both cards | 05:25 |
| deejoe | mine is an older one with more plastic. you have one of the silvery ones with chiclet keys, limepi? | 05:25 |
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| limepi | deejoe: yep | 05:30 |
| limepi | it worked with... chinook? | 05:30 |
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| macly | I realize this may be a taboo question (or an unwanted one) and I apologize. I've been looking around to get an N810 and the only reputable place I've seen to get it is amazon, but they keep raising the price (currently around $400) Where should I be looking? | 05:42 |
| limepi | hmm... perhaps the internettablettalk.com forums | 05:43 |
| limepi | fora? | 05:43 |
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| GeneralAntilles | limepi, fora is probably more correct, but both usages are fairly common | 05:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | I find fora a bit stilted myself. | 05:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | macly, the N810 is kinda close to EoL | 05:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | macly, you can either wait for the next tablet around Summer (probably ~$500) which is going to be waaaay better, or maybe buy a used N810 now for cheap. | 05:49 |
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| macly | GeneralAntilles, cool. I'm just not really into some of the features of the next gen maemo tyablet :\ | 05:52 |
| macly | I appreciate the input though | 05:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | macly, er? | 05:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | What "features" could you not be into? | 05:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | 2-3x the speed or accelerated 3D perhaps? | 05:53 |
| macly | WWAN is one of them honestly | 05:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | You don't need a contract | 05:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just ignore it. | 05:53 |
| macly | yeah... | 05:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | It doesn't do anything if you don't use it. | 05:53 |
| macly | I'll have to re-read the spec list... | 05:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Some speculation based on recent code drops: http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i-january_2009-part_ii/ | 05:54 |
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| macly | GeneralAntilles, I just remember something I had heard earlier had turned me off... I guess we'll see :) I do appreciate the info though | 06:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Really, the N810 is slow and basically EoL | 06:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't expect continued software updates | 06:01 |
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| macly | yeah. I'll probably end up digging my heels until the new one comes out... then impulse buy :) it's my usual MO :D | 06:01 |
| macly | (I'm a MBP pre-orderer for instance) | 06:02 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Whatever other detriments there may be, OMAP3 outweighs all of them. | 06:04 |
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| TheFatal | # apt-get update -> E: Falta el directorio de archivos /var/cache/apt/archives/partial. | 07:24 |
| TheFatal | :S | 07:24 |
| TheFatal | # apt-get update -> E: Missing directory of files /var/cache/apt/archives/partial. | 07:26 |
| bef0rd | uhm se borro? crealo | 07:27 |
| AstralSt | mkdir it | 07:27 |
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| AstralSt | heh, it's almost time to move all my system to sd (immc actually) | 07:28 |
| AstralSt | but first, I need a kernel with btrfs working and omapfb driver built against new kernel headers | 07:28 |
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| AstralSt | any gotchas to look out for? | 07:36 |
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| bef0rd | no heh | 07:36 |
| bef0rd | I've only used external kernel for rotation support, is there any other available? | 07:39 |
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| TheFatal | I do not know other | 07:40 |
| TheFatal | Can i install Ubuntu mobile to a N810 | 07:40 |
| TheFatal | ?? | 07:41 |
| bef0rd | no | 07:41 |
| bef0rd | that's x86 | 07:41 |
| bef0rd | unless you compile it | 07:41 |
| TheFatal | Too much work :P | 07:41 |
| TheFatal | And gnome mobile ?? | 07:42 |
| bef0rd | dunno | 07:42 |
| bef0rd | what's that? | 07:42 |
| TheFatal | Gnome desktop for mobile devices | 07:43 |
| TheFatal | Motorola is using it | 07:44 |
| TheFatal | On new device | 07:44 |
| bef0rd | but, maemo desktop is already using gnome stuff | 07:45 |
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| TheFatal | Not all | 07:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nokia is involved in the GNOME Mobile initiative. | 07:47 |
| TheFatal | I saw than a new gnome mobile desktop exist | 07:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.gnome.org/mobile/ | 07:48 |
| TheFatal | Sorry, old new... So there is not exist another S.O. For N810 ?? | 07:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | SO? | 07:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm familiar with DEs, but not SOs. | 07:52 |
| bef0rd | O.S | 07:52 |
| bef0rd | oses | 07:52 |
| bef0rd | there's debian, ubuntu, I read somebody is running gentoo .. but thery are all linux heh | 07:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | https://wiki.maemo.org/Alternative_operating_systems | 07:53 |
| AFBN810 | Hey | 07:54 |
| AFBN810 | xchat looks alot better with tabs on top | 07:55 |
| limepi | and with white-on-black text | 07:56 |
| AstralSt | bef0rd: port minix to it ;P | 07:56 |
| AstralSt | shouldn't be hard | 07:57 |
| AstralSt | there's definitely no Windows Mobile if you're after that | 07:57 |
| limepi | anyone here know about pairing an apple bluetooth keyboard w/diablo | 07:57 |
| limepi | I just updated | 07:57 |
| limepi | and now it won't pair :( | 07:57 |
| AstralSt | it should just work | 07:57 |
| AstralSt | maybe remove the device and readd it | 07:58 |
| AFBN810 | white on black easier to read? | 07:58 |
| limepi | AFBN810: yep | 07:58 |
| limepi | AstralSt: oh, I've tried that countless times | 07:58 |
| AstralSt | AFBN810: not on LCD | 07:58 |
| AstralSt | on LCD, esp. transflective, black on white is better | 07:58 |
| AstralSt | higher contrast | 07:59 |
| AstralSt | technical limitation - everyone should switch to OLED already ;) | 07:59 |
| AFBN810 | yeah white on black is easier on tablet | 07:59 |
| AstralSt | oh really? | 08:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | It is for me. | 08:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Transmission display | 08:00 |
| AstralSt | I get huge evil reflections in sunlight | 08:00 |
| AstralSt | makes it totally unreadable | 08:00 |
| AstralSt | actually, in any light | 08:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | You need a nice screen protector | 08:00 |
| AstralSt | ... | 08:00 |
| AFBN810 | not sure about in sun light | 08:00 |
| AstralSt | it's a transflective screen | 08:01 |
| AstralSt | no amount of protection will help | 08:01 |
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| AstralSt | it's designed to reflect some light | 08:01 |
| AstralSt | also, I can't get the right protector | 08:01 |
| AstralSt | which ones are ok? (last one I tried, muddled the screen to hell) | 08:01 |
| AFBN810 | I cut down a psp on since I'm to lasy to order ofline | 08:03 |
| AstralSt | I tried one for PSP | 08:04 |
| AstralSt | it muddled the screen a lot | 08:04 |
| AstralSt | to the point of being hardly readable | 08:04 |
| limepi | I nicked my screen a little bit in the lower corner | 08:05 |
| limepi | is that something I can buff out with toothpaste | 08:05 |
| AFBN810 | speaking of colors GA do I need to follow some kind of color pattern for moble theme of talk.maemo.org? | 08:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | AstralSt, the transflection reflects from behind the panel. | 08:06 |
| AstralSt | GeneralAntilles: yes, so? | 08:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anyway, I don't do my reading in sunlight. | 08:06 |
| AstralSt | it still leaves nice reflections | 08:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | limepi, toothpaste will just score it. | 08:07 |
| bef0rd | AstralSt, I was checking, minix is only IA-32 :P there is a google summer of code project to port it to other architectures http://www.minix3.org/soc/ | 08:07 |
| AstralSt | sunlight? it reflects any light | 08:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | AFBN810, http://openbossa.andrecunha.com/maemo/ | 08:07 |
| AstralSt | bef0rd: that's why I said you get to port it :) | 08:07 |
| limepi | GeneralAntilles: which would, if I understand correctly, make it worse? | 08:07 |
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| bef0rd | AstralSt, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MINIX and the wikipedia entry says it supports a lot of platforms ... heh | 08:08 |
| AstralSt | not minix3 | 08:09 |
| AstralSt | :) | 08:09 |
| AstralSt | you *still* get to port that one | 08:09 |
| bef0rd | oh | 08:12 |
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| * AFBN810 thinks about having to design something with standards | 08:20 | |
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| AstralSt | AFBN810: something? like, a gizmo? | 08:20 |
| AFBN810 | a forums template | 08:21 |
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| AFBN810 | Last one I picked colors now I have to follow rules | 08:21 |
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| samd | hi, is there any way to see powr point presentations on my n810? | 09:08 |
| AstralSt | google docs maybe | 09:09 |
| AstralSt | other than that, I don't think so | 09:09 |
| AstralSt | convert them to PDF somewhere else and you'll be good | 09:09 |
| samd | yea good point , pdf would be nice , thanks | 09:10 |
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| wazd | morning all | 10:32 |
| johnx | mornin' | 10:32 |
| qwerty12 | hi | 10:32 |
| qwerty12 | It's annoying when you get used to running tar on every compressed file you find and you forget about gunzip & bunzip :) | 10:33 |
| johnx | heh. done that before | 10:34 |
| johnx | often zcat or bzcat is more useful though | 10:34 |
| qwerty12 | yeah :) | 10:34 |
| wazd | http://s45.radikal.ru/i108/0901/ad/7d0a5e67d3db.jpg < brand new mer | 10:37 |
| AstralSt | no UI? ;P | 10:37 |
| johnx | hot! | 10:38 |
| AstralSt | just-a-wallpaper OS? | 10:38 |
| qwerty12 | The best kind | 10:38 |
| johnx | AstralSt, after lots of focus groups, we discovered that's all people really cared about | 10:38 |
| wazd | AstralSt: It's UI is so great that it's invisible!11 © Palm | 10:38 |
| Jaffa | Morning | 10:39 |
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| AstralSt | moaning | 10:39 |
| wazd | hey | 10:39 |
| Jaffa | wazd: Start-up screen? Nice. | 10:40 |
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| Jaffa | (wallpapers shouldn't have the logo as central, or prominent, IMHO) | 10:40 |
| wazd | Jaffa: that's all in one) | 10:40 |
| wazd | Jaffa: that's just a test :) | 10:40 |
| wazd | Jaffa: wallpaper is without the logo | 10:41 |
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| Jaffa | wazd: looks very professional | 10:46 |
| johnx | yes, looks very slick | 10:46 |
| Jaffa | Wallpaper could have some subtle (largeish) bubbles added | 10:47 |
| wazd | Jaffa: good idea | 10:48 |
| wazd | I've remade all stuff from null - same dithering problem. avent got access to good desktop display, have to work on netbook, maybe that's because of screen color depth lack | 10:49 |
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| wazd | btw, I have VIA C7 powered netbook, and still I can do 1920x1200 images pretty well so it's not as sluggish as it's described :) | 10:51 |
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| Jaffa | Nice. What model? | 10:52 |
| wazd | Jaffa: HP Mini 2133 | 10:52 |
| wazd | Jaffa: but still Atom is faster :) | 10:53 |
| * Jaffa had an original Eeeeeeee; very cool, but didn't use it enough once my N810 arrived | 10:54 | |
| Jaffa | My dell laptop is just so big & heavy tho' | 10:54 |
| wazd | Ee 701 was celeron powered, good book :) | 10:55 |
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| johnx | wazd, liking the 2133 overall? | 10:57 |
| wazd | johnx: yep, superawesome even after half-a-year using ) | 10:58 |
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| wazd | johnx: aluminium casing is more than adorable | 10:58 |
| johnx | great! that's what I like to hear. I'm lusting after a 2140 with a 6-cell battery, but might go for a mini 1000 | 10:58 |
| wazd | johnx: better wait for top 2140, it's a killer device for sure | 10:59 |
| johnx | yeah, have to wait anyways from a purchasing perspective :) | 10:59 |
| wazd | johnx: there's really nothing to compare with on the market | 10:59 |
| johnx | yeah, I got a chance to try most of the netbook keyboards side-by-side | 11:00 |
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| johnx | hp's the only one that didn't feel cramped. some combination of layout and the actual shape of the keys | 11:00 |
| wazd | johnx: yep, I'm using it as my main PC since my desktop video gone to ardware heaven :) | 11:01 |
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| wazd | johnx: for about 2 months | 11:01 |
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| RST38h | moo all | 11:03 |
| RST38h | WTH is multiply.com ? | 11:04 |
| RST38h | wazd,johnx: Just buy yourself a real subnotebook like Portege R-series and stop drooling over quasiPCs | 11:05 |
| wazd | RST38h: hello there) | 11:05 |
| johnx | RST38h, Soon as you throw me the difference in cash :P | 11:05 |
| wazd | RST38h: Actually I don't need that much power mobile | 11:05 |
| RST38h | johnx: Make it work for you :) | 11:06 |
| wazd | RST38h: So I don't want to pay for stuff I'd never use :) | 11:06 |
| RST38h | wazd: netbooks are not very mobile - don't fit into a pocket, can't be used on the go | 11:06 |
| RST38h | wazd: but I actually use a subnote as a desktop replacement, so not paying anything extra | 11:06 |
| johnx | though actually, depending on the portege's screen size/weight/keyboard I might be happier with the hp anyways | 11:06 |
| wazd | RST38h: for pocketable things I have n800, and I never used a notebook on the go, even the tablet one) | 11:07 |
| roope | I think there is the pocket form factor and then there is the laptop form factor, but I'm not really convinced of the form factor in the middle. | 11:07 |
| RST38h | johnx: Won't be - both screen and keyboard are physically larger and the weight is 1.25kg. | 11:07 |
| roope | too big to be pocketable, too small to be really used like a laptop. | 11:07 |
| johnx | so it's more expensive and less portable? | 11:07 |
| AstralSt | well, we need more foldable screens and keyboards | 11:07 |
| AstralSt | oh, wait | 11:08 |
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| AstralSt | we don't have video out on n810 | 11:08 |
| RST38h | wazd: Yep. But because netbooks aren't really mobile, why bother with them at all? | 11:08 |
| AstralSt | I hope that this issue will be rectified in n9xx | 11:08 |
| RST38h | johnx: It is as portable as any netbook | 11:08 |
| wazd | RST38h: mine is mobile :) I can take it to my country and work there a bit :) | 11:08 |
| RST38h | johnx: More expensive, yes, but you get what you pay for | 11:08 |
| AstralSt | wazd: that kind of mobility I have with my standard laptop | 11:08 |
| RST38h | wazd: I can do the same with any laptop really | 11:09 |
| johnx | RST38h, what if I don't need the part I'd be paying more for? | 11:09 |
| AstralSt | (no, not a 17" monster) | 11:09 |
| RST38h | johnx: I do not believe you won't need a bigger screen, more comfortable keyboard, and more responsive CPU | 11:09 |
| AstralSt | for mobile work, n810 is almost excellent | 11:09 |
| johnx | RST38h, you haven't actually tried the hp mini keyboard, have you? | 11:10 |
| RST38h | johnx: Even if you are a linux freak, the linux analog of "make world" is going to take much less time on a real computer | 11:10 |
| AstralSt | n9xx with external foldable keyboard and screen would be even better | 11:10 |
| johnx | RST38h, I use a binary distro :P | 11:10 |
| wazd | RST38h: HP has 100% comfortable kb and pretty responsive CPU :) | 11:10 |
| RST38h | johnx: No, but I know for sure that it is smaller i.e. less comfortable | 11:10 |
| AstralSt | yeah, netbooks are a niche that doesn't exist really | 11:10 |
| AstralSt | but gullible people still buy them | 11:11 |
| AstralSt | ;P | 11:11 |
| pupnik | netbooks are still space/weight saving if you are carrying a bag (for e.g. with books and stuff) | 11:11 |
| RST38h | Astral: This niche is called "dirt cheap laptops" | 11:11 |
| johnx | RST38h, so, I've used the keyboard, you haven't, and you're telling me it's less comfortable? | 11:11 |
| AstralSt | meh | 11:11 |
| RST38h | Astral: it exists all right | 11:11 |
| pupnik | agree with RST38h | 11:11 |
| AstralSt | RST38h: can't just buy an older one? :P | 11:11 |
| AstralSt | instead of having an underpowered netbook? | 11:11 |
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| RST38h | Astral: Probably not, laptops do not live more than 2-3 years nowadays | 11:11 |
| AstralSt | yes, they don't | 11:11 |
| AstralSt | due to battery | 11:11 |
| wazd | AstralSt: who told you it's underpowered? | 11:12 |
| AstralSt | wazd: if it's a netbook, it certainly is | 11:12 |
| RST38h | johnx: With keyboards, you can judge by physical size without trying | 11:12 |
| RST38h | johnx: Given the same size, you would have to test them of course to know | 11:12 |
| johnx | RST38h, O_o | 11:12 |
| wazd | RST38h: actually you can't | 11:12 |
| AstralSt | oh, yes you can | 11:12 |
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| wazd | RST38h: you can make 100% sized keyboard unusable | 11:12 |
| RST38h | wazd: you can, as long as you keep in mind that size isn't the only criterion | 11:13 |
| johnx | RST38h, I'm sorry to do this but I think the most correct expression would be "lolwut?" | 11:13 |
| AstralSt | wazd: unless it's designed to be useless, no | 11:13 |
| AstralSt | if it's a default design, then you can | 11:13 |
| RST38h | johnx: Smaller keyboard BAD. Bigger keyboard GOOD. Understand? :) | 11:13 |
| AstralSt | (or close enough to one) | 11:13 |
| wazd | RST38h: wrong again | 11:13 |
| AstralSt | RST38h: of course, unless it's too big | 11:13 |
| aquatix | RST38h: except that there can be bad big keyboards and excellent small ones | 11:13 |
| AstralSt | :) | 11:13 |
| AstralSt | yeah, of standard design? | 11:14 |
| wazd | RST38h: Optimus Maximus is very big keyboard | 11:14 |
| AstralSt | ^^^^ | 11:14 |
| johnx | RST38h, I've tested it and it seems just fine for me. do you own some stock in Toshiba or something? | 11:14 |
| wazd | RST38h: And it sucks like a vacum on typing | 11:14 |
| AstralSt | we're talking about standard designs, not weird ones | 11:14 |
| RST38h | aquatix: there can be. as a general rule though, bigger keyboard good. | 11:14 |
| aquatix | RST38h: of course | 11:14 |
| aquatix | as you have more room | 11:14 |
| wazd | AstralSt: what is standart design? | 11:14 |
| wazd | AstralSt: Mitsumi original? | 11:15 |
| AstralSt | normal rectangular or almost-rectangular qwerty | 11:15 |
| RST38h | wazd: I won't even discuss THAT to avoid Russian-specific politically incorrect humor. | 11:15 |
| wazd | AstralSt: typewrigter? | 11:15 |
| AstralSt | like, Chicony old Winkeyboard | 11:15 |
| AstralSt | or that old IBM keyboards | 11:15 |
| AstralSt | that's the standard design | 11:15 |
| AstralSt | *those | 11:15 |
| RST38h | johnx: I don't really, but the Porteges are subnotebook I know well | 11:15 |
| AstralSt | forgot how they look, eh? | 11:15 |
| wazd | Astral: what the heck is "rectangular qwerty"?) | 11:15 |
| aquatix | mitsumi original comes close too i think | 11:15 |
| RST38h | johnx: You can probably go with other brands as well, as long as general specs are close | 11:16 |
| johnx | RST38h, WTF? The Portege starts at $1400. The HP I specced is $380 | 11:16 |
| AstralSt | wazd: non-broken non-curved qwerty keyboard | 11:16 |
| RST38h | johnx: You get what you pay for. | 11:16 |
| johnx | RST38h, I need this for an ssh session and an xterm. | 11:16 |
| johnx | and a web browser, music player | 11:16 |
| johnx | maybe some standard def video | 11:16 |
| wazd | AstralSt: well, Microsoft Ergo Kb is way cooler than original :) | 11:16 |
| RST38h | johnx: Why do you need to spend extra $380 for that? Don't you already have a computer? | 11:16 |
| johnx | Why in the F would I pay $1000 extras? | 11:16 |
| AstralSt | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Keyboard-wireless-black.jpg - like this one | 11:16 |
| aquatix | johnx: sounds like a netbook is great for the job | 11:16 |
| wazd | AstralSt: every iser will tell you that :) | 11:17 |
| AstralSt | except all the added keys | 11:17 |
| AstralSt | wazd: yeah yeah | 11:17 |
| johnx | RST38h, it's in a micro atx case. doesn't really fit in my lap huh? | 11:17 |
| AstralSt | except most of these suck :> | 11:17 |
| aquatix | johnx: my girlfriend has the samsung nc10; excellent 10" netbook with great keyboard | 11:17 |
| aquatix | and great battery life too | 11:17 |
| bef0rd | wazd, nice logo/wallpaper | 11:17 |
| RST38h | johnx: Why not dump it and just buy a real laptop for all purposes? | 11:17 |
| wazd | bef0rd: thanks) | 11:17 |
| aquatix | wazd: url? | 11:17 |
| johnx | RST38h, $1000! I've owned cars that cost less! | 11:17 |
| aquatix | johnx: :) | 11:17 |
| AstralSt | aquatix: well, so what's the best thing about that one? | 11:18 |
| AstralSt | that it can run apps? :P | 11:18 |
| RST38h | johnx: Ah you cheapskate =) | 11:18 |
| AstralSt | definitely not the price | 11:18 |
| wazd | http://s45.radikal.ru/i108/0901/ad/7d0a5e67d3db.jpg | 11:18 |
| AstralSt | and it's not a netbook | 11:18 |
| johnx | RST38h, it's called priorities | 11:18 |
| AstralSt | just a subnotebook | 11:18 |
| aquatix | AstralSt: eh? | 11:18 |
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| aquatix | nc10 is a netbook | 11:18 |
| AstralSt | price, again? | 11:18 |
| RST38h | johnx: Dunno, to me it is having more electronic junk in the house | 11:18 |
| AstralSt | I have a real laptop that costs less | 11:18 |
| mavhc | it's only a netbook if it has an ssd, hdd based ones don't count | 11:18 |
| AstralSt | and it does its job very well | 11:19 |
| aquatix | but does that one do 7 to 8 hours straight on battery? | 11:19 |
| RST38h | johnx: I would rather spend that $1000 and have a single portable machine to use | 11:19 |
| aquatix | and weigh 1.3kg? | 11:19 |
| * Jaffa still has a proper netBook upstairs :-) | 11:19 | |
| wazd | I don't get that argue :) What everybody tries to prove everyone?) | 11:19 |
| AstralSt | aquatix: not, just 4h | 11:19 |
| aquatix | wazd: not sure either :) | 11:19 |
| RST38h | johnx: All of my computers have paid for themselves multiple times | 11:19 |
| AstralSt | and 2x the weight | 11:19 |
| mavhc | Jaffa: apparently psion want to sue people, who knew they still existed | 11:19 |
| AstralSt | aquatix: for portability, my n810 is good | 11:19 |
| aquatix | i was just saying that for johnx' needs, a netbook is just fine | 11:19 |
| AstralSt | ;P | 11:19 |
| RST38h | wazd: As always, that THEIRS is bigger/longer/harder | 11:20 |
| aquatix | AstralSt: i have an n810 and a 13" subnotebook and that's fine for me too | 11:20 |
| * aquatix doesn't need a netbook | 11:20 | |
| AstralSt | why do you need a subnotebook if you have n810? | 11:20 |
| wazd | RST38h: Ah, ok :) | 11:20 |
| aquatix | but i was just saying that they have their place | 11:20 |
| AstralSt | normal laptop is portable aplenty | 11:20 |
| johnx | RST38h, I've owned plenty of computers. This isn't my first time around the block. I appreciate the advice I suppose, I just wonder why you're so insistent... | 11:20 |
| AstralSt | ;) | 11:20 |
| aquatix | AstralSt: what part of "my girlfriend" didn't you get? | 11:20 |
| AstralSt | ah, right | 11:20 |
| AstralSt | no logic | 11:20 |
| RST38h | johnx: Not really insistent | 11:20 |
| aquatix | (heh, all of it ;) | 11:20 |
| AstralSt | forgot about that part | 11:20 |
| RST38h | johnx: Just fail to understand the logic | 11:20 |
| wazd | ok, why netbooks are bad?) | 11:21 |
| RST38h | johnx: If I were a cheapskate, I wouldn't buy a second computer at all | 11:21 |
| RST38h | johnx: If I weren't a cheapskate, I wouldn't buy a netbook | 11:21 |
| Jaffa | mavhc: They still sell netBook (Pro) stuff - but to big industrial/OEM customers; hence all the /. wailing of "wah, they stopped selling stuff ages ago". I wonder who got Acorn's "netPad" trademark (I think Psion had a portable, keyboardless device called the netPad, too) | 11:21 |
| wazd | they ave standart keyboards, 8 hours of wi-fi, descent screens and adequate CPU HP | 11:21 |
| RST38h | johnx: So, any point of view in the middle is lost to me :) | 11:21 |
| wazd | What's bad on them?) | 11:21 |
| mavhc | netbooks are bad if you don't care about size because a full sized cheap laptop is the same price | 11:22 |
| johnx | RST38h, $1000 represents a different amount of money to different people... | 11:22 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Perhaps other people have different requirements and priorities to you? | 11:22 |
| wazd | they can't play crysis for sure | 11:22 |
| aquatix | wazd: i think people mind the less-than-whoa-fast! processors | 11:22 |
| aquatix | wazd: yeah :/ | 11:22 |
| aquatix | but that's not where they are intended for anyway | 11:22 |
| mavhc | if your laptop can play crysis you can't carry it | 11:22 |
| aquatix | my girlfriend couldn't be happier with her netbook | 11:22 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: The thing is that what you said still does not explain why one would buy a netbook | 11:22 |
| aquatix | RST38h: because it doesn't cause a hernia? | 11:23 |
| RST38h | aquatix: I am sure it does! =) | 11:23 |
| mavhc | you buy a netbook if you have a desktop and don't use a laptop much | 11:23 |
| Vulcanis | does not cause hernia | 11:23 |
| Vulcanis | causes cancer in california | 11:23 |
| wazd | so I don't actually get why I have to pay 1400 bucks instead of 400 for totaly same functionality :) | 11:23 |
| AstralSt | wazd: nice, but then, n810 has 5h of wifi and is more portable :) I can type about 70% as fast on it | 11:23 |
| aquatix | Vulcanis: what doesn't? ;) | 11:23 |
| RST38h | wazd: Not the same functionality - netbooks have smaller, lower quality LCDs, slower CPUs, smaller keyboards | 11:24 |
| mavhc | wazd: you pay for the dvd drive, fast cpu, high res screen | 11:24 |
| Vulcanis | aquatix: Nokia products | 11:24 |
| aquatix | heh :) | 11:24 |
| wazd | mavhc: I have 1280x720 screen | 11:24 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: How about these two OTTOMH... 1) someone has a powerful desktop, but needs a nice, small, cheap machine for lightweight tasks when travelling; 2) someone has a bad back/neck, but still travels. can't afford an expensive lightweight laptop and doesn't need the oomph anyway | 11:24 |
| RST38h | wazd: On the other hand, I hope netbooks wil help bringing laptop prices down ;) | 11:24 |
| AstralSt | wazd: I can extend to 7h if using bluetooth for connectivity | 11:24 |
| wazd | mavhc: Pretty high-res | 11:24 |
| AstralSt | but, my cell phone will die sooner ;P | 11:24 |
| RST38h | JaffaL I would go with a smartphone or a NIT for these usage cases | 11:25 |
| mavhc | wazd: on which netbook? | 11:25 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: In fact, I DO go with a NIT for them =) | 11:25 |
| wazd | mavhc: HP 2133 | 11:25 |
| AstralSt | NIT even can be easily used for browsing (unexpected, eh?) | 11:25 |
| AstralSt | unlike most smartphones | 11:25 |
| wazd | mavhc: new 2140 has even higher res | 11:25 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Yes, *you* do. I find typing lots on the NIT tedious. And Nokia've hardly advertised them well. | 11:25 |
| AstralSt | Jaffa: I guess because NITs aren't a "done" product yet | 11:26 |
| Vulcanis | they advertized them at all? | 11:26 |
| mavhc | pre netbook all small laptops were high end, they're just low end small laptops, with SSDs | 11:26 |
| Jaffa | Netbooks also "do" the web better than NITs,have more variety, can be cheaper and are *known* | 11:26 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: I don't type much on a NIT really, although typing is a bitch, even with an external keyboard | 11:26 |
| AstralSt | I think they're trying to evolve them into next-gen smartphones | 11:26 |
| aquatix | RST38h: eh, try typing on a paper/thesis in TeX for some hours on a NIT | 11:26 |
| AstralSt | well, I do type a bit on my n810, and it's nice | 11:26 |
| AstralSt | code, actually | 11:26 |
| AstralSt | :) | 11:26 |
| mavhc | NITs are smartphones without the phone | 11:26 |
| wazd | sooo | 11:26 |
| RST38h | aquatix: I have had a desktop for that | 11:26 |
| wazd | What's bad on netbooks?) | 11:26 |
| AstralSt | mavhc: yes, and n9xx will have that fixed | 11:26 |
| aquatix | RST38h: not in the plain/train/park bench you don't | 11:27 |
| RST38h | aquatix: And if I need to do it on the road, Portege R100 is only 1.25kg | 11:27 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Right, so if someone wnated to type, say, a few emails whilst on a train/plane; what's the best device category for them? | 11:27 |
| wazd | Except the price ofcourse) | 11:27 |
| aquatix | RST38h: and only $1000 more? | 11:27 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: My E70 does email typing very very nicely | 11:27 |
| aquatix | a netbook you about literally throw into your bga | 11:27 |
| aquatix | *bag | 11:27 |
| AstralSt | RST38h: oh, n810 does too | 11:27 |
| RST38h | aquatix: I have no desktop. For me it is +$1000 -price of desktop | 11:27 |
| mavhc | so $700 | 11:27 |
| AstralSt | I have a "mobile desktop" class of laptop | 11:27 |
| RST38h | Astral: Actually, no. E70 is way better than any other mobile device at this ;) | 11:28 |
| AstralSt | and n810 | 11:28 |
| Vulcanis | I have an ultraportable laptop | 11:28 |
| AstralSt | Vulcanis: as in pocketable? | 11:28 |
| wazd | AstralSt: ultraport is not DTR) | 11:28 |
| AstralSt | :P | 11:28 |
| RST38h | mavhc: Nope. A desktop will cost you around $500, no less. Add $300 for a monitor | 11:28 |
| * aquatix has an ultraportable too, and a lovely n810 | 11:28 | |
| Vulcanis | AstralSt: About 3lb | 11:28 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Not everyone has an E70! Are you deliberately trolling now, or just saying that anyone who has a netbook (incl. johnx and wazd) haven't considered things properly? | 11:28 |
| RST38h | mavhc: So for me it is +$200 | 11:28 |
| Vulcanis | but between my Thinkpad X60 and n800, I don't really need too much more | 11:28 |
| AstralSt | Jaffa: obviously the latter | 11:28 |
| mavhc | what's the price of an e70? | 11:29 |
| AstralSt | mavhc: google is your friend, or nokia.com | 11:29 |
| AstralSt | :P | 11:29 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: First of all, I am ALWAYS deliberately trolling, in the definition you are using :) | 11:29 |
| Vulcanis | I don't really see why everyone wants the netbooks | 11:29 |
| aquatix | Jaffa: i think we should just accept that RST38h doesn't see the advantage a netbook can have for someone who doesn't already own a smartphone, NIT and desktop | 11:29 |
| AstralSt | no need for a smartphone | 11:29 |
| mavhc | Vulcanis: because they're cheap laptops | 11:29 |
| bef0rd | the cool factor | 11:29 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Secondly, all I am trying to say is that netbooks fall into some category that I can't imagine a use for | 11:29 |
| aquatix | Vulcanis: my gf uses it as her own computer, aside from her palmtop | 11:29 |
| mavhc | people always want cheap things | 11:29 |
| wazd | RST38h: notebook for poor slaves | 11:30 |
| aquatix | Vulcanis: it's conveniently small, light and gets her stuff done | 11:30 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Yes, but you have to accept THAT OTHER PEOPLE CAN! | 11:30 |
| RST38h | wazd: Maybe, yes | 11:30 |
| johnx | RST38h, sometimes, there are products aimed at other people than you | 11:30 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h, you seem to insist on making everyone think they way you do. | 11:30 |
| aquatix | Jaffa: indeed | 11:30 |
| Vulcanis | mavhc: But they're crap! Its like people who buy 400$ dells expecting them to last. Sure, they're better built, but I doubt they will last | 11:30 |
| qwerty12 | s/they/the | 11:30 |
| wazd | RST38h: so, whats the deal) | 11:30 |
| mavhc | that's why they make more than 1 product | 11:30 |
| AstralSt | Jaffa: actually, they'd be better with other hardware most of the time | 11:30 |
| Vulcanis | I haven't seen anything but an eee in person, but it just doesn't feel... right. | 11:30 |
| mavhc | Vulcanis: how are they crap? | 11:30 |
| * aquatix wanders off | 11:30 | |
| *** x29a_ is now known as x29a | 11:30 | |
| AstralSt | with a netbook, you can't run any performance-intensive stuff | 11:30 |
| aquatix | Vulcanis: Eee's don't feel right here too | 11:30 |
| Jaffa | ditto. Babies to sort | 11:30 |
| Vulcanis | mavhc: I guess its more just the obsolescence thing. | 11:30 |
| mavhc | they're less likely to break than a laptop, no HDD | 11:31 |
| AstralSt | and vs a NIT, you gain weight, larger screen and keyboard | 11:31 |
| aquatix | but an Acer Aspire One or Samsung NC10 are actually usable | 11:31 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Well, other people are trying to explain to me, but there are some logical problems with explanations | 11:31 |
| johnx | Vudentz, true. the eee kinda sucks :) there are many better choices | 11:31 |
| AstralSt | and some hd space | 11:31 |
| aquatix | 160GB even in the NC10 ;) | 11:31 |
| aquatix | anyways | 11:31 |
| AstralSt | aquatix: and more expensive too? :P | 11:31 |
| mavhc | it's not a netbook with an HDD | 11:31 |
| aquatix | AstralSt: depends | 11:31 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: it is like someone explaining the virtues of having a bicycle | 11:31 |
| johnx | RST38h, I wasn't even talking to you about netbooks. O_o | 11:31 |
| AstralSt | aquatix: NC10 has a list price or 500$ | 11:32 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: You know, healthy, 2-hour morning trips to work, etc | 11:32 |
| aquatix | AstralSt: last time i looked, the Eee 10" was about the same | 11:32 |
| aquatix | AstralSt: oh? | 11:32 |
| wazd | random flame comment\ | 11:32 |
| aquatix | was cheaper here | 11:32 |
| wazd | ~flame | 11:32 |
| AstralSt | hmm, maybe it got cheaper | 11:32 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: And the only thing I can say is "Why not just buy a freaking car?" :) | 11:32 |
| qwerty12 | ~burn | 11:32 |
| johnx | RST38h, no, it's like someone saying that a bicycle works for them and talking to someone else about biking to work: Not an invitation to tell them they're wrong | 11:32 |
| aquatix | AstralSt: we got it for 380 EUR | 11:32 |
| AstralSt | RST38h: because gas is expensive | 11:32 |
| AstralSt | aquatix: so, for more than 500$, hehehe | 11:32 |
| mavhc | and there's no parking | 11:32 |
| AstralSt | or an equivalent | 11:32 |
| aquatix | AstralSt: that's not comparable dammit ;) | 11:33 |
| mavhc | and it's 1/10th the price | 11:33 |
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| RST38h | AStral: That argument has also been used (see scrollback buffer) :) | 11:33 |
| wazd | Tell my one thing everybody) | 11:33 |
| wazd | Why shoud I pay more for same stuff? | 11:33 |
| aquatix | `same'? | 11:33 |
| AstralSt | more? same? | 11:33 |
| mavhc | because it's better in some way | 11:33 |
| wazd | Yep | 11:33 |
| aquatix | wazd: what are you comparing now? | 11:33 |
| wazd | no its not for me | 11:33 |
| RST38h | 'cause it is not the same | 11:33 |
| mavhc | smaller, lighter, faster, more reliable | 11:33 |
| AstralSt | for 500$, you can get a standard laptop of moderate power | 11:33 |
| wazd | not smaller, not lighter, doing same stuff | 11:34 |
| AstralSt | not smaller *enough* actually | 11:34 |
| AstralSt | because you still need a bag | 11:34 |
| wazd | I have aluminium case, does Portege? | 11:34 |
| johnx | RST38h, I kinda wish you'd stop trolling sometimes :/ | 11:34 |
| mavhc | you don't need another bag, just put it in your main bag | 11:34 |
| AstralSt | mavhc: oh yeah sure | 11:34 |
| AstralSt | I don't carry a bag with me | 11:34 |
| AstralSt | it looks bad etc. | 11:34 |
| AstralSt | I win, eh? :P | 11:35 |
| wazd | I'm caring my mini in my small standart "non-notebook" bag | 11:35 |
| mavhc | wazd: it's 5 times faster, has a dvd drive, higher res screen, I assume | 11:35 |
| wazd | So | 11:35 |
| AstralSt | you mean, a suitcase? | 11:35 |
| RST38h | johnx: Done (have to get back to work) | 11:35 |
| wazd | mavhc: I dont need al that CPU HP | 11:35 |
| AstralSt | devastating to joints | 11:35 |
| wazd | mavhc: at ALL | 11:35 |
| mavhc | wazd: so don't buy it | 11:35 |
| mavhc | we'll stop forcing you to buy it, ok | 11:35 |
| AstralSt | :P | 11:35 |
| wazd | I'm so glad) | 11:36 |
| mavhc | also don't buy that gaming desktop if you don't want to play games | 11:36 |
| wazd | We suddenly have found a reasn to buy a netbook | 11:36 |
| AstralSt | like what kind of reason? | 11:36 |
| mavhc | you don't need more cpu power | 11:36 |
| AstralSt | a standard laptop for text editing will be cheaper | 11:36 |
| wazd | I wan't to have a cheap reliable laptop | 11:36 |
| * aquatix would rather buy a $400 netbook than a $400 laptop that weighs 2x as much and has some crappy celeron and only slightly bigger resolution and poorer battery life | 11:37 | |
| AstralSt | cheap != reliable | 11:37 |
| aquatix | AstralSt: did you even try some? | 11:37 |
| wazd | AstralSt: wrong | 11:37 |
| AstralSt | esp. that netbooks are not reliable | 11:37 |
| RST38h | unfortunately, yes | 11:37 |
| mavhc | AstralSt: so we shouldn't buy the cheap laptop, because it's not reliable? | 11:37 |
| AstralSt | yes, although not the newest offering | 11:37 |
| RST38h | Although Samsung is a big step in that direction | 11:37 |
| wazd | AstralSt: expensive != reliable | 11:37 |
| mavhc | AstralSt: cite your source | 11:37 |
| AstralSt | wazd: that's true too | 11:37 |
| wazd | so whats the point | 11:37 |
| mavhc | who's netbook is dead? | 11:37 |
| AstralSt | mavhc: source? cite yours ;P | 11:37 |
| RST38h | wazd: you know a difference between <-> and -> ? | 11:38 |
| AstralSt | mavhc: sorry, had to fix a few | 11:38 |
| mavhc | they have no HDD, hence more reliable | 11:38 |
| AstralSt | as in hardware | 11:38 |
| AstralSt | yes, as if hdds were unreliable | 11:38 |
| AstralSt | the problem is not storage | 11:38 |
| aquatix | mavhc: erm, we have one with 160GB hdd | 11:38 |
| AstralSt | but cheap plastics | 11:38 |
| aquatix | AstralSt: well | 11:38 |
| wazd | I have 120Gb HDD | 11:38 |
| mavhc | aquatix: as I said, if it has an HDD it's not a netbook | 11:38 |
| wazd | Aluminium casing | 11:38 |
| aquatix | mavhc: wrong | 11:38 |
| RST38h | mavhc: Why? | 11:38 |
| aquatix | sooo wrong | 11:39 |
| AstralSt | wazd: what netbook? | 11:39 |
| aquatix | anyway | 11:39 |
| aquatix | i'm outta here | 11:39 |
| aquatix | not wanting to do this on sunday morning | 11:39 |
| wazd | AstrasSt: same as 5 mins ago obviously)) | 11:39 |
| wazd | AstralSt: HP 2133 | 11:39 |
| aquatix | before i even had coffee or food :) | 11:39 |
| mavhc | because a netbook is something with no moving parts, except perhaps a fan, than you can throw around | 11:39 |
| aquatix | mavhc: in your definition maybe | 11:39 |
| RST38h | aquatix: But now you are no longer asleep | 11:39 |
| pupnik | my 'netbook' has a hdd and a fan | 11:39 |
| aquatix | RST38h: yeah, but greatly annoyed ;) | 11:39 |
| AstralSt | wazd: hmm | 11:39 |
| RST38h | mavhc: Netbook is a dirt-cheap laptop, that is all it is | 11:40 |
| mavhc | aquatix: well there's got to be some real difference | 11:40 |
| aquatix | mavhc: like, size and power? | 11:40 |
| mavhc | RST38h: don't give it a new name then | 11:40 |
| AstralSt | RST38h: dirt-cheap *small* laptop | 11:40 |
| AstralSt | :) | 11:40 |
| aquatix | AstralSt: indeed | 11:40 |
| RST38h | For once, there is a clear definition (try that with MIPS or "smartphone") | 11:40 |
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| RST38h | Astral: Original Intel netbook is rather large BTW | 11:40 |
| AstralSt | yes, or Asus | 11:40 |
| AstralSt | but then, these are proto-netbooks ;P | 11:40 |
| RST38h | mavhc: I did not give it a name, can't take it back :) | 11:40 |
| mavhc | the problem with a laptop is the hdd, you shouldn't move it when it's on | 11:40 |
| Vulcanis | [04:39:32] <mavhc> because a netbook is something with no moving parts, except perhaps a fan, than you can throw around -- perhaps Nerf should make one | 11:41 |
| AstralSt | mavhc: wrong | 11:41 |
| aquatix | mavhc: bullocks | 11:41 |
| AstralSt | laptop hdds are very resilient | 11:41 |
| * aquatix has had laptops for years and even dropped one while it was powered on | 11:41 | |
| mavhc | except the pile of 20 dead ones I have here | 11:41 |
| Vulcanis | esp. on a thinkpad ^.^ | 11:41 |
| aquatix | never had a problem | 11:41 |
| wazd | HP Mini even have HDD defense | 11:41 |
| AstralSt | mavhc: buying cheap hardware again? | 11:41 |
| aquatix | AstralSt: :) | 11:41 |
| wazd | HP like throw protection | 11:41 |
| mavhc | AstralSt: of course | 11:41 |
| AstralSt | whatever, the hd itself has a G-sensor | 11:41 |
| johnx | since I already did it before I stopped caring: sizeeasy.com comparison of an HP Mini 1000 vs a Portege A600: http://tinyurl.com/84hm7e | 11:42 |
| * aquatix now really wanders off to some food and coffee | 11:42 | |
| AstralSt | no need for an additional one | 11:42 |
| aquatix | johnx: ha, nice | 11:42 |
| wazd | is it sunday today?! | 11:42 |
| Vulcanis | its friday | 11:42 |
| aquatix | here it is | 11:42 |
| Vulcanis | so I can not go to school tomorrow, because it will then be saturday | 11:43 |
| AstralSt | Vulcanis: free, but sunday | 11:43 |
| aquatix | Vulcanis: :) | 11:43 |
| aquatix | wish i could say the same of my work | 11:43 |
| Vulcanis | sleep problems don't help things. Nor do midterms. | 11:43 |
| aquatix | ouch | 11:43 |
| AstralSt | fortunately, I'm free of sleep problems | 11:44 |
| Vulcanis | Yeah, be happy. | 11:44 |
| RST38h | johnx: Well, it is expected (especially with a larger A600). But I really like that pack of playing cards form factor! :) | 11:44 |
| AstralSt | but then, having to finish 4 projects is not nice | 11:44 |
| aquatix | AstralSt: same here :/ | 11:44 |
| Vulcanis | johnx: Where can I buy one of these "Pack of playing cards", and what are the specs? | 11:44 |
| johnx | RST38h, yeah, but try typing on that thing. no feedback whatsoever! :P | 11:44 |
| * aquatix gets that coffee and food | 11:44 | |
| aquatix | Vulcanis: supermarket | 11:44 |
| aquatix | Vulcanis: 53 non-moving parts | 11:45 |
| pupnik | what is the other webkit browser for tablets called? not "tear" | 11:45 |
| Vulcanis | nuuh | 11:45 |
| x29a | global whining hour about who has the hardest life? | 11:45 |
| aquatix | solid state++ | 11:45 |
| qwerty12 | pupnik, webkit-eal | 11:45 |
| bef0rd | midori? | 11:45 |
| pupnik | and btw "tear" is a terrible name for googling. | 11:45 |
| Vulcanis | 55 if you count jokers and the crappy rules card, aqua | 11:45 |
| mavhc | just plug your HUD glasses and finger keyboard and mouse into the playcard sized computer, done | 11:45 |
| AstralSt | aquatix: obviosuly, not counting the exams | 11:45 |
| qwerty12 | pupnik, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=252016 | 11:45 |
| x29a | picking my nose and follow irc conversations, that aint easy | 11:45 |
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| johnx | pupnik, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=25752&page=27 | 11:45 |
| pupnik | thanks qwerty12, johnx | 11:45 |
| Vulcanis | [04:45:22] <mavhc> just plug your HUD glasses and finger keyboard and mouse into the playcard sized computer, done-- but then we get into 'decks' from Neuromancer | 11:45 |
| aquatix | Vulcanis: details ;) | 11:45 |
| qwerty12 | np | 11:45 |
| AstralSt | one project to wrap up is the hwr, but don't expect a release just yet | 11:45 |
| RST38h | johnx: Separate, wrist mounted BT keyboard! | 11:45 |
| RST38h | johnx: Actually, I want it as part of my jacket :) | 11:46 |
| aquatix | Neuromancer \o/ | 11:46 |
| pupnik | i'd like keyboard pants | 11:46 |
| pupnik | on the top of the thigh | 11:46 |
| johnx | RST38h, d00d. those playing card things don't even have hte bluet00thz! | 11:46 |
| AstralSt | not until I manage to get it to read continuous handwriting | 11:46 |
| aquatix | pupnik: so you can fondle legally? | 11:46 |
| aquatix | in public? | 11:46 |
| pupnik | it's just a natural resting place for hands. | 11:46 |
| AstralSt | mwhahaha | 11:46 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Would you prefer the keys on the front or...mmhmmm...on the BACK? =) | 11:46 |
| AstralSt | pupnik: for that reason, it's pointless | 11:46 |
| pupnik | heh, near the knee | 11:46 |
| johnx | pupnik, just for you: http://gizmodo.com/382570/bring-out-your-inner-tool-with-peripherals-pants | 11:46 |
| RST38h | johnx: Care to test that with your fingers? ;) | 11:46 |
| AstralSt | where do you put your hands when you don't want to type? | 11:46 |
| pupnik | i'm always typing | 11:47 |
| aquatix | pupnik: knee? so that will only work when you are sitting? | 11:47 |
| AstralSt | hmm | 11:47 |
| aquatix | pupnik: or do you have really long arms? :) | 11:47 |
| aquatix | johnx: ah! | 11:47 |
| mavhc | you don't need a real keyboard, just finger position detectors, for your air kb | 11:47 |
| pupnik | awesome johnx... but i was thinking of a chording model | 11:47 |
| aquatix | mavhc: yeah, hologrammed in the air | 11:47 |
| pupnik | still awesome tho | 11:47 |
| RST38h | mavhc <-- essentially correct | 11:48 |
| aquatix | except that a hologram doesn't provide tactile feedbak | 11:48 |
| aquatix | +c | 11:48 |
| RST38h | Like that demo Nokia (?) did with someone typing on a bare desk while the smartphone camera tracked his movements | 11:48 |
| AstralSt | mavhc: it doesn't work well | 11:48 |
| aquatix | RST38h: or that laser keyboard | 11:48 |
| mavhc | it? I just imagined it | 11:48 |
| RST38h | aquatix: More cumbersome, needs extra battery | 11:48 |
| AstralSt | RST38h: too much AI in that ;P | 11:48 |
| RST38h | Astral: naaah, just some image processing | 11:49 |
| aquatix | RST38h: can be build into your device | 11:49 |
| RST38h | There is more AI in Emacs | 11:49 |
| AstralSt | I tried to have that workign | 11:49 |
| aquatix | RST38h: but still, doesn't provide tactile feedback | 11:49 |
| RST38h | aquatix: type on a piece of bubble wrap! :) | 11:49 |
| johnx | hmm, need some augmented reality goggles to let you see the keyboard maybe :) | 11:49 |
| AstralSt | RST38h: really? I tried to do that with standard motion detection algorithms | 11:49 |
| aquatix | RST38h: with every bubble a key? | 11:49 |
| RST38h | johnx: [drugs] | 11:49 |
| AstralSt | it needed a load of CPU but didn't work so well | 11:49 |
| RST38h | aquatix: yea | 11:49 |
| aquatix | better use that roll-up-able keyboard i have lieing here | 11:49 |
| aquatix | even full-sized | 11:50 |
| AstralSt | sometimes misread keys | 11:50 |
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| aquatix | brb | 11:50 |
| RST38h | Astral: IANAGG, but you probably want to use probabilistic analysis with Markov chains | 11:50 |
| AstralSt | aquatix: link? | 11:50 |
| mavhc | add force feedback to your glove | 11:50 |
| AstralSt | RST38h: did I mention AI? | 11:50 |
| AstralSt | ;P | 11:50 |
| AstralSt | except it doesn't work too well either | 11:50 |
| AstralSt | much like T9 | 11:50 |
| AstralSt | ;P | 11:51 |
| RST38h | Astral: Probabilistic stuff isn't really AI | 11:51 |
| AstralSt | oh, it is | 11:51 |
| AstralSt | esp. markov chains | 11:51 |
| AstralSt | still, predictive text is *old* | 11:51 |
| RST38h | Well...maybe in the wide sense of that term | 11:51 |
| AstralSt | I could fix the problems with it | 11:51 |
| *** avs has quit IRC | 11:51 | |
| AstralSt | but then, that introduces new problems :P | 11:51 |
| RST38h | It is not the traditional stuff though (logic, planning, etc) | 11:51 |
| AstralSt | it is | 11:52 |
| AstralSt | it's used for that in some games even | 11:52 |
| RST38h | Game AI != CS AI | 11:52 |
| AstralSt | (as part of an expert system) | 11:52 |
| AstralSt | oh really? | 11:52 |
| mavhc | augmented reality works today | 11:52 |
| RST38h | Traditional CS AI is such a narrow field, unfortunately | 11:52 |
| AstralSt | RST38h: tell me again, is pattern recognition not CS AI? | 11:52 |
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| AstralSt | ;P | 11:53 |
| AstralSt | all AI is probabilistic anyway :) | 11:53 |
| mavhc | once you get it working they remove it from the AI field and give it its own field | 11:53 |
| RST38h | Astral: hasn't been since that Marvin Minsky guy had his proof of a perceptron not able to do a XOR | 11:54 |
| johnx | mavhc, yeah, looking forward to seeing more of it in the next couple years :) | 11:54 |
| mavhc | AI is just all the stuff that doesn't quite work yet | 11:54 |
| AstralSt | (excluding hard data mining and expert systems, which are dead field already ;P ) | 11:54 |
| wazd | Long ago I was translating a text bout retinal projector | 11:54 |
| AstralSt | RST38h: perceptron is one special kind of pattern recognition | 11:54 |
| wazd | That's the future of agumented reality | 11:54 |
| RST38h | Astral: Practically, it is AI of course. It is just that mainstream CS AI guys abandoned this stuff long time ago and only recently returnned to it | 11:54 |
| AstralSt | but then, markov chaining is not a simple perceptron | 11:55 |
| RST38h | Astral: Exactly, in fact you can do a XOR, just add an extra layer | 11:55 |
| AstralSt | :) | 11:55 |
| AstralSt | still, most fun problems are linearly separable | 11:55 |
| AstralSt | no need for XOR ;P | 11:55 |
| mavhc | http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=6NKT6eUGJDE is one AR demo I saw recently | 11:56 |
| AstralSt | see, the trick with this motion detector is the amount of noise present | 11:56 |
| AstralSt | in movement of fingers | 11:56 |
| AstralSt | thus, they had to go back to predictive text to reduce error rate | 11:57 |
| AstralSt | means - failure | 11:57 |
| RST38h | mavhc: green screen tech | 11:57 |
| RST38h | mavhc: Has been used for years to flip through ads shown at hockey/soccer matches | 11:58 |
| RST38h | It is actually pretty cool | 11:58 |
| AstralSt | nice new name though, eh? | 11:59 |
| johnx | what I'm waiting for is an honest to god HUD with some basic ability to add info about what I'm seeing | 11:59 |
| AstralSt | johnx: "info about what I'm seeing" = hard AI | 11:59 |
| AstralSt | HUD is fairly simple | 11:59 |
| RST38h | johnx: What? Ability to target and shoot explosive projectiles isn't at the top of your list? | 11:59 |
| mavhc | johnx: there's smartphone demos that do that now | 12:00 |
| johnx | AstralSt, face recognition? | 12:00 |
| johnx | RST38h, maybe our respective country's cultures are wearing off on us? :P | 12:00 |
| johnx | mavhc, but not quite "heads up" yet :) | 12:00 |
| AstralSt | johnx: face recognition is simple enough, with low enough error rate | 12:00 |
| AstralSt | like, 0.05% | 12:00 |
| mavhc | for a subset of people | 12:01 |
| AstralSt | of course, that's bad enough to not warrant using it for any security purpose | 12:01 |
| AstralSt | but governments aren't listening | 12:01 |
| mavhc | they are listening, just to people selling the tech | 12:01 |
| johnx | AstralSt, exactly. that kind of stuff. and info on buildings, directions overlayed, | 12:01 |
| AstralSt | obviously ;P | 12:01 |
| RST38h | johnx: Don't think so, this stuff is pretty universal AFAIK | 12:01 |
| AstralSt | buildings... hmmm, GPS + vector map? | 12:01 |
| AstralSt | but you'd need a compass too | 12:02 |
| johnx | RST38h, it's funny, but the only people I feel like shooting sometimes are on the internet... | 12:02 |
| AstralSt | to get more sure direction data (GPS is notoriously bad at that at low speed) | 12:02 |
| RST38h | johnx: and I believe you have been a systadmin too, so you should know the feeling | 12:02 |
| johnx | RST38h, I was lucky. I had good users :) | 12:02 |
| RST38h | johnx: See? There *are* such people! | 12:02 |
| mavhc | http://www.videosift.com/video/Augmented-Reality-Wikitude-App-for-Android-Google-Phone | 12:02 |
| johnx | RST38h, now retail computer sales and repair...that's another story | 12:03 |
| AstralSt | johnx: the problem is - do you want to wear some kind of glasses? | 12:03 |
| johnx | AstralSt, I already where glasses :) | 12:03 |
| mavhc | already do | 12:03 |
| AstralSt | OLEDs could be used to solve this problem "transparently" | 12:03 |
| AstralSt | laser projection... maybe | 12:03 |
| mavhc | g1 has a compass, so maybe it's using that | 12:03 |
| mavhc | glasses will do for the next 10 years, then lasers | 12:04 |
| johnx | mavhc, yup, compass+gps+accelerometer(?) | 12:04 |
| mavhc | then just plug straight into my brain | 12:04 |
| AstralSt | yes, these | 12:04 |
| AstralSt | plus some additional motion detection from camera? | 12:04 |
| AstralSt | (you need that for face recognition anyway) | 12:04 |
| johnx | yeah, that wikitude app looks pretty neat. it's screaming for faster hardware though, and maybe a little more polish | 12:04 |
| aquatix | mavhc: i rather keep it seperated from my brains | 12:05 |
| AstralSt | the problem is hinting at what is a face | 12:05 |
| mavhc | then before I die find a way to copy my brain to a computer so I can live forever on the internet | 12:05 |
| AstralSt | and controlling the HUD | 12:05 |
| AstralSt | johnx: do you want to carry a keyboard with you? :P | 12:05 |
| mavhc | AstralSt: did you see Horizon's Where's My Robot? | 12:05 |
| johnx | AstralSt, why would I need one? | 12:05 |
| AstralSt | johnx: to say to the hud "face detection" | 12:05 |
| AstralSt | it would misdetect otherwise | 12:06 |
| AstralSt | a lot | 12:06 |
| johnx | Cheap point+shoot cameras have been doing facial recognition quite well for years | 12:06 |
| AstralSt | from clean pics | 12:06 |
| mavhc | finding faces is easy | 12:06 |
| johnx | I mean recognizing that something is a face at least | 12:06 |
| AstralSt | not from real life movement and such | 12:06 |
| AstralSt | yes yes | 12:06 |
| mavhc | if they're looking straight at you | 12:06 |
| AstralSt | exactly | 12:07 |
| RST38h | cheap p&s has got OTHER problems with real life movement :) | 12:07 |
| johnx | AstralSt, I'm fine with it going away when I'm moving or whatever. I rarely need it then | 12:07 |
| AstralSt | johnx: then, a simple key to engage detection would be ok, right? :P | 12:07 |
| AstralSt | or some other way of signalling it | 12:07 |
| aquatix | mavhc: interesting demo | 12:07 |
| johnx | AstralSt, eh, or if the software has a low confidence factor it won't show me the info, if it has a high confidence factor that it recognized a face, then it should show it | 12:08 |
| johnx | this also, has been in p+s cams for a while... | 12:08 |
| AstralSt | it *will* fail in funny ways a lot :) | 12:08 |
| AstralSt | like, seeing a face on a building | 12:08 |
| AstralSt | detecting faces in ads | 12:09 |
| AstralSt | etc. | 12:09 |
| AstralSt | a lot of info you don't want | 12:09 |
| AstralSt | unless you augument it with some nice AI for DWIM | 12:09 |
| johnx | AstralSt, that's the kind of stuff I want to find out :) what works, what doesn't | 12:09 |
| johnx | maybe a glove would be ok for input, or something that sits on my wrist and watches my tendons | 12:10 |
| AstralSt | yeah, like a chord keyboard :> | 12:10 |
| johnx | except something that doesn't completely occupy a whole hand all the freaking time :) | 12:11 |
| AstralSt | I remember a design like that | 12:11 |
| AstralSt | no need for that if you mount it on a glove | 12:11 |
| johnx | are you talking about something like a frogpad (is that it?) | 12:11 |
| AstralSt | nah, frogpad is a standard small keyboard... | 12:12 |
| AstralSt | although chorded | 12:12 |
| AstralSt | I'm talking that on a glove :P | 12:12 |
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| mavhc | google street view's face detection to blur faces blurs horse faces too | 12:12 |
| johnx | mavhc, that's intentional :D | 12:13 |
| aquatix | mavhc: rightly so | 12:13 |
| aquatix | you don't want to be seen with the wrong horse | 12:13 |
| mavhc | horse privacy lobby is powerful | 12:13 |
| johnx | doesn't blur people peeing on the street though | 12:13 |
| AstralSt | haha | 12:13 |
| aquatix | johnx: it blurred her face though ;) | 12:13 |
| AstralSt | johnx: http://wearables.blu.org/keyglove.html ;) | 12:14 |
| johnx | so is it blurring peoples' faces in all regions now? | 12:14 |
| mavhc | when I saw the streetview car in nottingham I followed it around so I can be in lots of the photos | 12:14 |
| AstralSt | can be done better | 12:14 |
| AstralSt | e.g. analog | 12:14 |
| johnx | I'm just not sure if trying to map qwerty onto a glove like that is the right idea | 12:14 |
| AstralSt | or with a standard nice 3D glove | 12:14 |
| AstralSt | (which is expensive) | 12:14 |
| AstralSt | I said chorded, no need for qwerty | 12:15 |
| AstralSt | it could launch functions directly | 12:15 |
| johnx | or switch to T9 | 12:15 |
| AstralSt | predictive text strikes again! ;P | 12:15 |
| johnx | yeah, I guess that's just a keymap and in input method on the software side | 12:15 |
| AstralSt | exactly | 12:15 |
| AstralSt | T9 is underpowered really | 12:16 |
| * aquatix likes qwerty better on a phone already | 12:16 | |
| AstralSt | can be improved easily, but still, that doesn't work around the patent | 12:16 |
| AstralSt | meh | 12:16 |
| johnx | gah, forgot about the patent | 12:16 |
| aquatix | maybe some dvorak-like layout for the glove | 12:16 |
| johnx | or T10 :) | 12:16 |
| aquatix | lol | 12:17 |
| AstralSt | we need more analog keyboards | 12:17 |
| AstralSt | who needs a binary input, when we can use all of the hand movements? | 12:17 |
| AstralSt | magic, anyone? | 12:17 |
| AstralSt | give "gestures" a new meaning | 12:18 |
| AstralSt | pity those 3D gloves are so expensive | 12:18 |
| johnx | whole new ways for people to develop carpal tunnel syndrome :) | 12:18 |
| aquatix | AstralSt: maybe we can do something with cheap motion sensors | 12:18 |
| aquatix | johnx: :) | 12:18 |
| AstralSt | aquatix: optical? sorry, tried it | 12:19 |
| AstralSt | johnx: rather, avoid | 12:19 |
| AstralSt | because of varying movement | 12:19 |
| aquatix | AstralSt: no | 12:19 |
| aquatix | the ones you have in phones nowadays | 12:19 |
| AstralSt | those are accelerometers | 12:19 |
| AstralSt | good 3D gloves use them | 12:19 |
| aquatix | yeah, just wanted to say so | 12:19 |
| aquatix | yeah | 12:20 |
| johnx | dunno, that demo of the keyglove looked like a recipe for some kind of repetitive stress injury O_o | 12:20 |
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| AstralSt | johnx: it's more of a joke :) | 12:20 |
| johnx | hey Stslaptop | 12:20 |
| Stskeeps | morning | 12:20 |
| johnx | hmm, accelerometers aren't that expensive | 12:20 |
| aquatix | johnx: indeed | 12:20 |
| aquatix | and you don't need that many | 12:20 |
| AstralSt | http://www-bsac.eecs.berkeley.edu/archive/users/hollar-seth/fingeracc/fingeracc.html | 12:20 |
| AstralSt | aquatix: ^ | 12:20 |
| aquatix | but you might want to keep the position of your fingers and such into account | 12:21 |
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| aquatix | AstralSt: 404? | 12:21 |
| AstralSt | google then :) | 12:21 |
| AstralSt | anyway, good 3D glove will have tension sensors, flex sensors and accelerometers | 12:22 |
| aquatix | do those give feedback too? | 12:22 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: i wonder if composite is broken in hildon-desktop | 12:22 |
| aquatix | by resisting a bit and such? | 12:22 |
| AstralSt | no | 12:23 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, are you sure we have it in our xorg driver? | 12:23 |
| * johnx boots mer | 12:23 | |
| AstralSt | you could have some vibrators though | 12:23 |
| aquatix | AstralSt: yeah, thought about that | 12:23 |
| AstralSt | uhm, shakers | 12:23 |
| aquatix | would be sufficient i think | 12:23 |
| AstralSt | still, this becomes expensive micromanufacturing | 12:23 |
| aquatix | as you only need feedback | 12:23 |
| aquatix | yep | 12:23 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: do me a favour and try to only upgrade libhildondesktop libhildonwm0 and hildon-desktop | 12:23 |
| wazd | hey Sts) | 12:24 |
| johnx | alright, will in a minute | 12:24 |
| Stskeeps | it stopped working completely in my install so :P | 12:24 |
| wazd | I've done what you've requested with logo | 12:24 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, dependency problems? | 12:24 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: can i see? :) | 12:24 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: not sure, just breaks at boot | 12:24 |
| wazd | no) | 12:24 |
| wazd | :D | 12:24 |
| wazd | http://s45.radikal.ru/i108/0901/ad/7d0a5e67d3db.jpg | 12:24 |
| Stskeeps | hehe, looks cool | 12:25 |
| RST38h | moo Srs | 12:25 |
| RST38h | Sts | 12:25 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: i found out why other themes made by theme maker doesnt work in mer | 12:26 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: fallback icon theme | 12:26 |
| johnx | ah, right. ours has a different name, huh? | 12:26 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, 'hildon' | 12:27 |
| Stskeeps | but i've uploaded titan to the repo with changed wallpaper now too | 12:27 |
| Stskeeps | and began initial stuff with theme stuff in hildon-desktop-env (dont upgrade yet) | 12:27 |
| johnx | ah, Nokia's theme app is closed, right? | 12:28 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, hildon-desktop's license is good obviously? | 12:28 |
| Stskeeps | i bet we can prod kontorri | 12:28 |
| johnx | are theme changes done through d-bus? | 12:28 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: hmm? | 12:28 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: well look at /etc/osso-af-init/osso-gtk.defs and matchbox.defs | 12:29 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, http://pastebin.com/d47ace9b1 - looking at that, installing the locale package to hildon-desktop seems to be good... | 12:29 |
| Stskeeps | think that's where it mostly comes from | 12:29 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: i thought we had maemo-af-desktop-l10n already | 12:30 |
| qwerty12 | Ah, yes, we do. I was under the impresssion that we don't >.<. Have any plans on uploading it if you haven't done so? home_ap_home_view looks ugly. | 12:31 |
| Stskeeps | well the issue is that the .po file is not there in fremantle hildon desktop | 12:31 |
| Stskeeps | it worked in non fremantle hildon desktop | 12:31 |
| qwerty12 | I'll adapt it, I don't like using hildon-desktop without proper names. | 12:32 |
| Stskeeps | alright | 12:32 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: symptom i encounted was hildon-desktop crashing, but i was confused by the fact it did the same in Xomap :P | 12:34 |
| johnx | how did it crash? | 12:35 |
| Stskeeps | segfault | 12:35 |
| johnx | will install in a minute | 12:36 |
| Stskeeps | k | 12:36 |
| Stskeeps | i'll catch up on iTT :P | 12:36 |
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| Stskeeps | http://www.beefretail.org/deImagesbr/BeefRawCut/Beef_Cut_Chart/Beef_Cut_Chart.jpg <- I so want this poster | 12:41 |
| Meiz_n810 | Stskeeps: do you think Xomap would be better? | 12:42 |
| Meiz_n810 | thann Xorg in mer | 12:42 |
| Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: yes/no, but i knew composite worked there :P | 12:42 |
| aquatix | Stskeeps: *grin* @ poster | 12:42 |
| Meiz_n810 | Stskeeps: how much faster Xomap is? | 12:43 |
| Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: well they have manual updates, we don't | 12:43 |
| Stskeeps | that pretty much wins the rac | 12:43 |
| Stskeeps | e | 12:43 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 12:43 |
| Meiz_n810 | ok | 12:44 |
| * Meiz_n810 is re-installing Mer | 12:44 | |
| Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: mm, be aware some pieces are broken atm, so if you do it through imager, i cant promise it works | 12:44 |
| * AstralSt would love to install Mer, but has to wrap up hwr | 12:45 | |
| AstralSt | :P | 12:45 |
| Meiz_n810 | okay | 12:45 |
| AstralSt | Stskeeps: what's broken, btw? | 12:45 |
| Stskeeps | AstralSt: think i compiled hildon desktop for the first time with composite, and through scratchbox | 12:45 |
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| Stskeeps | and something seems to have gone awry | 12:46 |
| Stskeeps | (all other apps work fine) | 12:46 |
| Stskeeps | testing that scenario right now | 12:46 |
| AstralSt | hmm, anyway... need to port Gentoo first | 12:46 |
| Meiz_n810 | i want to make a theme, but theme maker just does't work :( | 12:47 |
| AstralSt | write a bunch of n8x0 specific ebuilds | 12:47 |
| AstralSt | Stskeeps: do I have to grab the original gpsdriver, or is there some replacement? | 12:47 |
| Stskeeps | AstralSt: slon actually succeeded in EABI gentoo now | 12:47 |
| AstralSt | esp. OSS replacement | 12:47 |
| Meiz_n810 | konttori: ping? | 12:47 |
| Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: work on where? | 12:47 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, may I suggest that you replace utelnetd with openssh? or if you want to stay with the telnet route, add an ftp server then please | 12:48 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: utelnetd in a rescue mode? :P | 12:48 |
| AstralSt | dropbear? :P | 12:48 |
| Meiz_n810 | Stskeeps: it stays on 1% :( | 12:48 |
| Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: hm :P | 12:48 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, yes | 12:48 |
| Meiz_n810 | when i click "build theme" | 12:48 |
| qwerty12 | I may switch to g_serial and get it to upload files there. atm, I'm fucking around with xxd. | 12:48 |
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| stv0 | hi | 12:48 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: feel free to build g_serial and modulize it, rescue mode has already a menu point for it | 12:49 |
| Meiz_n810 | hi | 12:49 |
| stv0 | yeah i ported my first app ;) | 12:49 |
| stv0 | do we have any documents howto package apps? | 12:49 |
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| AstralSt | stv0: I'd like one too | 12:51 |
| AstralSt | I guess debian packaging guide is it | 12:51 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12: and you're welcome to package up dropbear too | 12:52 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, if you didn't catch it, I've had g_serial.ko on maemobox for a long time now | 12:52 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, ok, ive just been to lazy to package it :P | 12:53 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: yeah, it's my composite build causing it | 12:53 |
| Stskeeps | lovely | 12:53 |
| qwerty12 | Fuck telnet. I've crashed utelnetd by pasting an hex dump into vi. | 12:54 |
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| aquatix | qwerty12: fun :) | 12:54 |
| * aquatix doesn't see the point of a telnetd on a modern device anyway | 12:54 | |
| RST38h | that sounds more like utelnetd problem =) | 12:54 |
| Stskeeps | aquatix: small and for usb connecting :P | 12:54 |
| aquatix | myeah | 12:55 |
| RST38h | aquatix: the point is to let us all see his passwords | 12:55 |
| aquatix | :) | 12:55 |
| aquatix | RST38h: shush ;) | 12:55 |
| qwerty12 | Hah, what password. This is mer. | 12:55 |
| RST38h | don't tell me it is not a worthy point | 12:55 |
| RST38h | qwerty: in general I mean | 12:56 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: 'rootme' | 12:56 |
| Stskeeps | :> | 12:56 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, fair enough :P | 12:56 |
| qwerty12 | I'm convinced utelnetd is there to piss me off. | 12:56 |
| stv0 | wtf why chmod +x dont work? | 12:57 |
| Stskeeps | apt-get install dropbear? :P | 12:57 |
| Stskeeps | stv0: doing it on a FAT filesystem? :P | 12:58 |
| qwerty12 | With what connection? | 12:58 |
| stv0 | oops | 12:58 |
| qwerty12 | If I had the internet, I'd be wgetting my way out of this shithole ;) | 12:58 |
| stv0 | i can't execute any code from a fat partition? | 12:58 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: route add default gw 192.168.2.1? :P | 12:58 |
| qwerty12 | stv0, no. fat sucks. this is linux. | 12:58 |
| Stskeeps | if your machine is 2.1 | 12:58 |
| wazd | daamn, I have totaly nothing to do( | 13:00 |
| wazd | So boring | 13:00 |
| stv0 | yeah avrdude runs ;) | 13:00 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: change your /etc/network/interfaces into http://trac.tspre.org/svn/deblet/trunk/packages/main/tablet-network-setup/interfaces.deblet | 13:00 |
| Stskeeps | (just ignore the comments) | 13:00 |
| Stskeeps | it will make your life a lot easier | 13:01 |
| qwerty12 | On the tablet I assume? | 13:01 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 13:01 |
| qwerty12 | Thanks | 13:01 |
| Stskeeps | i guess you have johnx's masq curse in your machine /etc/network/interfaces | 13:01 |
| qwerty12 | My kernel setup on this machine is a fucking mess tbh | 13:01 |
| Stskeeps | try test first with route add default gw stuff | 13:02 |
| Stskeeps | and then ping some outside ip address | 13:02 |
| Stskeeps | (ip not host) | 13:02 |
| qwerty12 | I can't even get my jffs2 images mounted any more - I have to use a hardy live cd just to get the maemo rootfs mounted | 13:02 |
| qwerty12 | ok | 13:02 |
| AstralSt | qwerty12: you made lzma jffs2 | 13:02 |
| AstralSt | you now have to build a kernel with support for that | 13:02 |
| AstralSt | :) | 13:02 |
| qwerty12 | AstralSt, they must have removed it then :/. Thanks :) | 13:03 |
| AstralSt | as everything | 13:03 |
| AstralSt | they remove useful features in maemo | 13:03 |
| AstralSt | e.g. busybox w/o anything ;P | 13:03 |
| qwerty12 | hah | 13:04 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, thanks, ping 209.85.173.147 works | 13:04 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: edit your /etc/resolv.conf then | 13:04 |
| Stskeeps | to match your DNS server | 13:05 |
| qwerty12 | Sure, let me get the address out of this router (god, I hate the restricted shell in this one..) | 13:05 |
| * Stskeeps notes to himself he's not going to be pleased if hildon-desktop just in general breaks on scratchbox | 13:07 | |
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| Stskeeps | morning konttori | 13:10 |
| konttori | morning | 13:10 |
| * konttori is back from costa del sol | 13:11 | |
| Stskeeps | hehe, back to cold cold finland? | 13:11 |
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| aquatix | hm, those RX-51 spec rumours appeal to me | 13:12 |
| Stskeeps | it's even more fun digging in the source for those :P | 13:13 |
| aquatix | :) | 13:13 |
| lcuk | it will be even more fun to hold one :) | 13:13 |
| aquatix | lcuk: ;) | 13:13 |
| aquatix | might even lead me to not buying a full-fletched smartphone | 13:14 |
| lcuk | well technically if we can get something voipish on the phone with skypeout type capabilities is there really a difference? | 13:14 |
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| aquatix | lcuk: yes | 13:15 |
| aquatix | erm | 13:15 |
| Stskeeps | can anyone explain to me what purpose 'gtkrc.maemo_af_desktop' has? | 13:15 |
| lcuk | s/phone/tablet/ | 13:16 |
| infobot | lcuk meant: well technically if we can get something voipish on the tablet with skypeout type capabilities is there really a difference? | 13:16 |
| aquatix | lcuk: well, network coverage basically | 13:16 |
| lcuk | see even im confused | 13:16 |
| aquatix | i can't call from my car with my n810 | 13:16 |
| lcuk | arent we expecting hspdadppdada on it with always on connectivity | 13:16 |
| aquatix | ah right | 13:16 |
| aquatix | true | 13:17 |
| aquatix | but that's going to be more expensive than my gsm abo | 13:17 |
| aquatix | rather a bit more | 13:17 |
| konttori | Stskeeps: well, it's not that much colder in Helsinki atm, but costa del sol did have sun unlike the pitch black finland. | 13:17 |
| lcuk | then we best get working on better compression algos :) | 13:17 |
| konttori | aquarius-: what rumors? | 13:17 |
| konttori | aquatix: what rumors | 13:17 |
| aquatix | konttori: see maemo.org site/feed | 13:18 |
| aquatix | http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i-january_2009-part_ii/ | 13:18 |
| aquatix | RX-51 Rumor Mongering | 13:18 |
| lcuk | mornin konttori | 13:18 |
| Stskeeps | aquatix: yeah, and in any case, if it is even remotely like that, i would buy it :) | 13:18 |
| aquatix | Stskeeps: me too | 13:19 |
| aquatix | n810 will be my girlfriend's next handheld then | 13:19 |
| * aquatix looks at hsdpa abo's | 13:19 | |
| konttori | aquatix: nice finds! | 13:20 |
| aquatix | konttori: i just saw it in the feed :) | 13:20 |
| aquatix | that Ryan Abel guy put them in there | 13:20 |
| Stskeeps | konttori: btw, if one was to adjust something in gtkrc in your theme maker for all themes you build, it would just be re-making that defaultsomething.zip you have? | 13:21 |
| * aquatix wonders what his irc nick is | 13:21 | |
| konttori | Has there been the promised weekly alpha sdk updates? | 13:21 |
| qwerty12 | aquatix, GeneralAntilles | 13:21 |
| Stskeeps | konttori: haven't seen any yet | 13:21 |
| aquatix | oh duh | 13:21 |
| Stskeeps | konttori: on the other hand, we're first now really catching up to all the new material | 13:21 |
| konttori | Stskeeps: yeah, you can just modify the .zip file. | 13:21 |
| aquatix | qwerty12: i'm better in nicks than in real names ;) | 13:21 |
| Stskeeps | konttori: thanks :) | 13:21 |
| konttori | (or create another one of those) | 13:21 |
| konttori | (you can have multiple and they will appear in the dropdown list) | 13:22 |
| Stskeeps | konttori: mer is a bit special in the fact that it needs a icon fallback theme, not entirely sure why :P | 13:22 |
| konttori | ok. I can also later add that to the theme maker default version as well. | 13:23 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, we'll see :) perhaps we find out how to be closer to maemo in that aspect | 13:23 |
| konttori | might make sense | 13:23 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, able to use all the themes out there :P | 13:24 |
| * lcuk kicks his slow stretchblit | 13:24 | |
| konttori | indeed. | 13:24 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, does root have a password? | 13:24 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: nop | 13:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | konttori, I had intended to talk with Quim about it at the Sprint meeting, but he wasn't there. | 13:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | tekojo said "soon" | 13:24 |
| konttori | GeneralAntilles: what sprint meeting? | 13:24 |
| lcuk | the one you missed :P | 13:25 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, hrm, ssh won't let me login even though I set it to allow empty password. I'll make another root account... | 13:25 |
| konttori | mer spring meeting? | 13:25 |
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| GeneralAntilles | konttori http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_Sprints/January_09 http://maemo.org/maemo-meeting | 13:25 |
| aquatix | qwerty12: ssh doesn't allow empty pw's | 13:25 |
| aquatix | erm | 13:25 |
| qwerty12 | aquatix, "ssh won't let me login even though I set it to allow empty password" | 13:25 |
| aquatix | you set it to do? | 13:25 |
| konttori | GeneralAntilles: thanks. | 13:25 |
| aquatix | hm | 13:25 |
| aquatix | nm then | 13:25 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: it's simply i didn't set root password in imager :P | 13:25 |
| konttori | and yeah, do try to push for the updates. | 13:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | aquatix, I can give you part numbers if you'd like to investigate further. I didn't add them to the post since there was a negative initial reaction after discussion came out about the specs. | 13:26 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, I dunno if setting a root password will mess anything up though so I may as well make another account with uid 0 | 13:26 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: 'passwd root' does the trick too | 13:26 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, without messing anything else up? | 13:26 |
| aquatix | GeneralAntilles: negative reaction? what do you mean? | 13:26 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: no bad reactions | 13:26 |
| qwerty12 | cool, thanks. | 13:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | aquatix, well, the hardware guys were a bit surprised and disturbed at where the information may have come from. | 13:27 |
| aquatix | GeneralAntilles: ah :) | 13:27 |
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| aquatix | GeneralAntilles: `use the source Luke' ;) | 13:27 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: i think on the other hand it helps the community keeping vibrant and longing for the next device, though | 13:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | It didn't amount to anything in the end and it's been set straight since, but since those parts are liable to change (as they have already for most of the items I listed at least once). . . . | 13:27 |
| Stskeeps | instead of a years silence :P | 13:27 |
| aquatix | GeneralAntilles: but i think this info is enough for me to want it | 13:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | aquatix, yeah, I'm a bit giddy over the next device. :D | 13:28 |
| aquatix | :) | 13:28 |
| aquatix | *wants* | 13:28 |
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| GeneralAntilles | The only thing I'm worried about are the hardware inputs. | 13:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | dpad, keyboard, etc. | 13:29 |
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| aquatix | oh? | 13:29 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Well, I'm an N800 guy. | 13:29 |
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| * qwerty12 hopes it's not the same design team as the people who worked on the N810 | 13:29 | |
| aquatix | qwerty12: :) | 13:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't much care for the hardware keyboard, and the N810 is a big step down d-pad-wise from the N800 (not that it really seems possible. . . .) | 13:30 |
| Stskeeps | i like the ease of popping the battery on a n810 thoug. | 13:30 |
| aquatix | n810 works, but it's not optimal | 13:30 |
| qwerty12 | If it is, then we are SOL :) | 13:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, tap it on your palm | 13:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's as easy as can be. | 13:30 |
| qwerty12 | use a shank | 13:30 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: yeah, but it is a lot easier on n810 :P | 13:30 |
| lcuk | the dpad on n97 looks suspiciously familiar | 13:30 |
| aquatix | lcuk: yeah | 13:30 |
| konttori | nokia uses same components as often as possible | 13:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's interesting that you never see hide nor hair of the hardware guys in the community. | 13:30 |
| konttori | so, no surprise you see same components on multiple models | 13:31 |
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| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: thought igor was in that area? | 13:31 |
| aquatix | konttori: brings consistency cross-device too | 13:31 |
| aquatix | can be a good thing | 13:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, well, he's a kernel dev working very close to the hardware | 13:31 |
| aquatix | if designed right | 13:31 |
| lcuk | heh konttori it was an observation not a bad thing | 13:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | but not really a hardware guy. | 13:31 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 13:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | i.e., the people that design the devices | 13:31 |
| konttori | sure. and no, it's not a bad thing. as long as the dpads would be proper dpads all over nokia. | 13:31 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: wtf.. no-composite hildon seems to break too | 13:32 |
| * konttori cannot ever stop complaining about the lack of proper dpads on nokia devices. | 13:32 | |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm sure there's plenty of day-jobbers, but it seems odd to me to put so much time into something and not really be involved with it. | 13:32 |
| * Stskeeps wonders what the hell happens | 13:32 | |
| GeneralAntilles | konttori, it's as if they do studies to figure out what the best d-pad design is then do the opposite. . . . | 13:32 |
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| lcuk | konttori, design new super interface devices modelled on pamela andersons boobs | 13:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | The d-pads have, amazingly, just gotten worse with each generation. | 13:32 |
| lcuk | we could have one on either side of the device and actually work on the cleavage area | 13:33 |
| aquatix | GeneralAntilles: same thing with the absence of scroll wheels | 13:33 |
| aquatix | i like having a scroll wheel on a phone | 13:33 |
| suihkulokki | "we want this mobile gaming thing to become BIG, what should we do? hmm.. let's make keys and d-pad unusable for gaming, that should do the trick!" | 13:33 |
| aquatix | for example | 13:33 |
| aquatix | like sony/sony ericsson had | 13:33 |
| konttori | suihkulokki: yeah. receipt for successfull ngage | 13:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | aquatix, yeah, they're nice, but I think the inertial scrolling in Fremantle should improve that at least a little. | 13:33 |
| lcuk | aquatix, scroll wheels are needed on a touch device only if the interface is designed incorrectly | 13:34 |
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| aquatix | lcuk: why? it enables me to scroll quickly through a list with one hand | 13:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | ^ | 13:34 |
| aquatix | or read an ebook comfortably | 13:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's nothing wrong with a scroll wheel. | 13:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | The 770 is perfect for ebooks | 13:34 |
| lcuk | but the touchscreen should let you do that as well | 13:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | N800 made the +/- buttons too damn small, though. | 13:34 |
| aquatix | GeneralAntilles: i found my n810 works really well for ebooks too | 13:35 |
| aquatix | if i hold it in my left hand | 13:35 |
| wazd | oh, hello konttori :) | 13:35 |
| aquatix | then i have the +/- buttons under my fingertips | 13:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | aquatix, I swap hands. | 13:35 |
| konttori | wazd: hi | 13:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Depending on which side I'm laying on | 13:35 |
| lcuk | i have fbreader setup with Left + DpadEnter to do next page, Right is previous page | 13:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Either turn pages with my index finger or thumb | 13:35 |
| aquatix | well, in right hand i have my thumb then | 13:35 |
| aquatix | yeah | 13:35 |
| aquatix | lcuk: on n800? | 13:36 |
| lcuk | lazy gorilla armed bookreading nightowls | 13:36 |
| lcuk | no, 810 | 13:36 |
| * aquatix doesn't want to slide out the keyboard when reading | 13:36 | |
| aquatix | too wide | 13:36 |
| wazd | konttori: I've found whats the true problem with TM .psd template. All colors are in here but their descriptions have dissapeared | 13:36 |
| lcuk | aquatix, i use my crate thing and rest that and arm is just there to hold it up (like a real book) | 13:37 |
| aquatix | ah | 13:37 |
| konttori | wazd: oh? really? I can have a look at that. | 13:37 |
| lcuk | thumb is in right place all the time to turn pages | 13:37 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, sorry, got distracted by things that aren't my computer :) | 13:37 |
| johnx | installing now | 13:37 |
| aquatix | myeah, a real book isn't comfortable when on your side | 13:37 |
| aquatix | imho | 13:37 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: yeah, just tested myself too now, and it crashes in both composite and non composite | 13:37 |
| aquatix | too big too :) | 13:37 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: this is first time we build it in scratchbox though | 13:37 |
| Meiz_n810 | konttori, what am i doing wrong when theme-maker just stays on 1% ? | 13:37 |
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| GeneralAntilles | johnx, for shame! | 13:38 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, I've built it in scratchbox before I'm pretty sure... | 13:38 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, :P | 13:38 |
| wazd | konttori: wait I'll post a screenshot | 13:39 |
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| johnx | yeah, I can see why hardware guys would be a littie disturbed by seeing all of those specs in one nice little article :) | 13:39 |
| konttori | Meiz_n810: You have to add icon template. | 13:40 |
| konttori | it's a bug, sorry about it. | 13:40 |
| johnx | surprised engadget didn't manage to pick it up, but I guess that's for the best | 13:40 |
| Meiz_n810 | ah, okay, i tought it was optional :) | 13:40 |
| Meiz_n810 | thanks | 13:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, only posted last night. ;) | 13:40 |
| konttori | so, just select a icon template and that should do it. | 13:40 |
| aquatix | johnx: i can submit it on /. ? ;) | 13:40 |
| konttori | yeah, it actually says optional, but apparently I had forgotten to make it optional. | 13:40 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, but the info is from that long thread | 13:40 |
| * GeneralAntilles would be happy with his first Engadget link. | 13:40 | |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, nah, info is from the kernel. :P | 13:41 |
| Meiz_n810 | konttori, icon theme image should be .png or .psd? | 13:41 |
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| wazd | Meiz_n810: all images should be png | 13:41 |
| aquatix | Meiz_n810: i think png | 13:41 |
| Meiz_n810 | ok | 13:41 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, right, kernel -> long thread -> your blog post. or did you go kernel diving yourself? | 13:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, I went kernel diving as soon as it dropped. | 13:42 |
| konttori | Meiz_n810: it's .png | 13:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | I compiled all of the model numbers directly from there. :) | 13:42 |
| konttori | Meiz_n810: there should be an example image bundled in. | 13:42 |
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| johnx | and yeah, if the hardware guys were a little surprised about that list the marketing guys would be having kittens if it showed up on engadget | 13:42 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, wow...very nice work then :) | 13:42 |
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| aquatix | johnx: :) | 13:42 |
| Meiz_n810 | konttori: yep, there is, thanks for help | 13:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, well, just have to spot all of the nonsense strings in the changelog. :P | 13:43 |
| wazd | screw this, here's full Titan template :) | 13:43 |
| wazd | http://s60.radikal.ru/i167/0901/f8/c1f80ffe3899.png | 13:43 |
| aquatix | obfuscated changelogs? | 13:43 |
| konttori | Maybe I should publish a fixed version soon. | 13:43 |
| wazd | Konttori: check color table | 13:43 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: i'm making builder build with -march=armv5te | 13:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | aquatix, "nonsense" meaning model numbers that aren't real English words. ;) | 13:43 |
| Stskeeps | any objections? | 13:44 |
| konttori | I'll start making a fremantle version soonish as well, so, it might make sense to make a stable version before that. | 13:44 |
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| johnx | Stskeeps, what was it set to before? | 13:44 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: no clue, honestly | 13:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, yeah, Peter had a bit of a fit when lardman and I first discussed it. | 13:44 |
| aquatix | GeneralAntilles: ah :) | 13:44 |
| johnx | heh. poor guy | 13:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Something along the lines of it ending the move towards openness for Maemo. | 13:44 |
| konttori | wazd: yeah. | 13:44 |
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| GeneralAntilles | johnx, I'm pretty sure he's ex-S60. :D | 13:44 |
| wazd | konttori: If you're making Fremantle version, then it's UI is ready?) | 13:45 |
| aquatix | GeneralAntilles: i was thinking about the changelogs by google people to webkit stuff before android was released | 13:45 |
| aquatix | s/android/chrome | 13:45 |
| konttori | wazd: you mean the fremantle UI? | 13:45 |
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| GeneralAntilles | aquatix, changelog diving is fun. | 13:45 |
| wazd | konttori: yep | 13:45 |
| konttori | Of course I cannot comment, but let's say it's ready enough I could start working on theme maker to support it. | 13:45 |
| Stskeeps | konttori: curious question, in the current theme template there's the old hildon-desktop layout still, will the template still provide for this in the fremantle version? | 13:46 |
| wazd | konttori: nice ;) | 13:46 |
| Stskeeps | it would benefit us n8x0'ers quite a bit :P | 13:46 |
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| GeneralAntilles | wazd, Nokia's worried about the bad reaction early (and even not-so-early) UI previews tend to get, so they're waiting until it's final or almost final to release. | 13:47 |
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| johnx | also, the "helpful suggestions" that beta UIs encourage O_o | 13:48 |
| wazd | General: I'm waiting too :) Already made a hole in my chair with butt :D | 13:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, dunno about that, ;) but it's only a few months off. | 13:48 |
| wazd | \ | 13:49 |
| * Stskeeps likes the hildon widgets he's seen so far | 13:49 | |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, it'll be a race to the finish whether I see the fremantle UI first or a Pandora :) | 13:49 |
| wazd | damn, I have a real McDonalds under the keys :) | 13:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, what if it's a tie? | 13:49 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, I'll have the attention span of a hummingbird for about a week | 13:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | The Fremantle Beta is released the same day Nokia announces the Pandora is RX-51. ;) | 13:50 |
| johnx | "OMG! OMAP3! WTFWIN!" "OMG! clutter UI. wooo!" | 13:50 |
| wazd | johnx: well, looking at Pandora's hardware assembling speed I have bad news for you :D | 13:50 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: that was my week when alpha sdk came out | 13:50 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, nah no way. the pandora has a decent d-pad. Nokia would never ship that. | 13:51 |
| aquatix | :) | 13:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 13:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | I gotta say, I've become quit impressed with TI over the last few years. | 13:51 |
| wazd | gaming d-pad is not quite decent | 13:52 |
| wazd | it's very comfortable but ruins device look | 13:52 |
| Stskeeps | touchscreen dpad? | 13:52 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:52 |
| wazd | until the device is a gaming console) | 13:52 |
| wazd | I'd prefere small analog stick | 13:52 |
| wazd | it looks slick and does the trick well | 13:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, have you thought about doing some mockups for h-a-m? | 13:53 |
| wazd | General: for what?) | 13:53 |
| lcuk | can we rename that app to b-a-c-o-n instead? | 13:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | The Application Manager | 13:54 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: h-i-m-p-e exists too (hildon input method plugin example.. i think) | 13:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha! | 13:54 |
| aquatix | Bitching AppliCatiON | 13:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | I wish I had a reason to use that one | 13:54 |
| wazd | General: well, I had some mock-ups very long ago | 13:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, that sounds like some cool guy's name I want to shout as he comes in a bar. | 13:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Like "Norm!" except "Himpe!" | 13:55 |
| wazd | long before new OS announcement) | 13:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | wazd, I only mention it, because it's the Nokia application most likely to implement any UI mockups. ;) | 13:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | I did some myself, but they're all very conservative and not all that exciting. | 13:56 |
| wazd | General: oh, than I'll try :) | 13:56 |
| wazd | Are there any wordpress users in here?) | 13:57 |
| aquatix | wazd: why? | 13:58 |
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| wazd | I have very strange problem, a block with "publish" button'n'stuff disappeared | 13:58 |
| aquatix | what version? | 13:58 |
| wazd | Well, I'm on wordpress.com | 13:59 |
| aquatix | ah | 13:59 |
| * aquatix has his own install | 13:59 | |
| wazd | I don't get where the heck it'sgone) | 13:59 |
| aquatix | wazd: ctrl+f `publish' ? | 14:00 |
| aquatix | :) | 14:00 |
| wazd | Now I should post thru deep butthole | 14:00 |
| wazd | oh, didn't know bout that | 14:00 |
| aquatix | if i lost a button on a site, i generally just search the page :) | 14:01 |
| aquatix | same with the `search' widget on a forum or something | 14:01 |
| RST38h | Yes, wazd, please, please, redesign app manager UI =) | 14:05 |
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| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, powerlaunch compiles fine but using it is a little funky. Init scripts don't agree with Mer and it (it being powered & powerlaunch) fails to "daemonize". It also wants to use dsmetool so I had to change it not to use that. The only thing I've been able to get it to do is to blank the screen if I hold down the power button. | 14:11 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: *nod* | 14:12 |
| Stskeeps | "%"¤! | 14:13 |
| * Stskeeps simply does not understand why hildon crashes all of a sudden | 14:13 | |
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| AstralSt | Stskeeps: strace it | 14:20 |
| AstralSt | or run in gdb | 14:20 |
| Stskeeps | i am | 14:21 |
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| RST38h | larrdmann | 14:23 |
| Stskeeps | hm, maybe it isn't even hildon crashing | 14:24 |
| johnx | upgraded, rebooting | 14:25 |
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| * Stskeeps watches his tablet dist-upgrade | 14:29 | |
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| sinak | is there any nokia channel for asking about my n78? | 14:34 |
| Stskeeps | no clue, this is mostly 770, n800 and n810 :P | 14:34 |
| sinak | :-) | 14:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | #symbian | 14:36 |
| RST38h | *** #symbian 34 ... :: DO NOT ASK US TO SIGN YOUR SIS :: ... | 14:37 |
| RST38h | Heh | 14:37 |
| * johnx wouldn't let grubby IRC users anywhere near his sister O_o | 14:38 | |
| konttori | Stskeeps: theme maker can have multiple layouts. | 14:39 |
| Stskeeps | konttori: alright | 14:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, especially not with the intention of signing . . . whatever that is. ;) | 14:41 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Signing is bullshit introduced by Nokia with Symbian 9.1. | 14:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N800, yeah, I know. :P | 14:42 |
| qwerty12_N800 | sorry :) | 14:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm just not sure what signing a sister would involved. ;) | 14:42 |
| RST38h | Actually introduced by Symbian | 14:42 |
| qwerty12_N800 | GeneralAntilles, branding?... | 14:43 |
| RST38h | Nokia has just been an accomplice who *could* tell Symbian to fuck themselves but did not | 14:43 |
| lcuk | signing attempts to ensure control over distribution | 14:43 |
| lcuk | but those evil haxx0rs keep breaking it | 14:44 |
| qwerty12_N800 | s/evil// | 14:44 |
| lcuk | no, haxx0rs can be good as well :) | 14:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N800, Nokia employees are actually the ones most responsible for the rotation patches. :P | 14:44 |
| qwerty12_N800 | GeneralAntilles, the title of that thread pisses me off though ;/ | 14:45 |
| qwerty12_N800 | *:/ | 14:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N800, well, he's not talking about you. :P | 14:45 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Symbian capabilities system stod pretty well against hackers | 14:45 |
| RST38h | Took them a few years to break | 14:45 |
| glass | yeah.. | 14:46 |
| glass | but it sucks for non-commercial devs | 14:46 |
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| RST38h | It even sucks for commercial devs | 14:46 |
| glass | commercial devs can get tcb -all caps, if they invest the time to get them | 14:46 |
| qwerty12_N800 | GeneralAntilles, I know, but why should the community o something for a response of fuck all from nokia | 14:46 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | s/o/do | 14:46 |
| lcuk | was that through its quality or just not worth fighting against? | 14:46 |
| RST38h | One of the trivial things we have lost is the file type recognition | 14:46 |
| RST38h | Type recognizers have to run at boot time on Symbian and THAT is a restricted capability | 14:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N800, he's not talking about Nokia projects. :) | 14:46 |
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| GeneralAntilles | He's talking about helping out community projects. | 14:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which you can do freely without involving Nokia at any point. :) | 14:47 |
| glass | RST38h: we had to beg for months to get proper caps to do mmf plugins the system would load, got them eventually though | 14:47 |
| RST38h | glass: yep. And I don't know anyone who ever got AllFiles cap | 14:47 |
| glass | RST38h: and we basically had 1 symbian dev in house, so not a big corp | 14:47 |
| glass | RST38h: we got it | 14:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N800, either way, it's not worth wasting the first post to devolve it into a flamewar. ;) | 14:48 |
| glass | RST38h: mmf plugins need all -tcb to be usable everywhere from built inapps | 14:48 |
| RST38h | glass: Wow! What kind of sacrifice have you made? | 14:48 |
| RST38h | glass: Was human meat involved? =) | 14:48 |
| glass | RST38h: just knowing the right people in the end | 14:48 |
| qwerty12_N800 | GeneralAntilles, I'm too quick to jump in it seems. I'll await and accept the response that says I'm talking out of my arse but i'm leaving that post there to bring attention to that point | 14:48 |
| RST38h | glass: Sounds very...mm...soviet. | 14:48 |
| aquatix | RST38h: they sent their office manager in a nice dress ;) | 14:48 |
| glass | RST38h: yeah, but thats how things roll... | 14:48 |
| RST38h | glass: That's definitely how it should not happen in application development | 14:49 |
| glass | RST38h: yeah, definetely not. we could've been up and running in a month and now it took 1.5years | 14:49 |
| RST38h | glass: Essentially, Symbian voluntarily jettisoned large swathes of its ecosystem | 14:49 |
| glass | RST38h: but good learning experience on how to get things done in real world(tm) | 14:50 |
| RST38h | glass: Naah, it is not real world, it is some kafkian fantasy from a bunch of Symbian executives. Normally, such stuff does not happen | 14:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N800, besides, the foam-at-the-mouth approach isn't really very effective in convincing Nokia of your argument (despite its stress-relieving benefits). | 14:51 |
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| glass | the problem is that they have herds of pr people who talk to devs but don't do shit or read the mails even | 14:51 |
| RST38h | glass: I have seen this a total of three times, I think - with IBM (support contracts, they are actually worthless), Symbian (you know what) and Sun (J2ME licensing) | 14:51 |
| RST38h | glass: HAD :) | 14:52 |
| RST38h | Not "have". hehe | 14:52 |
| glass | hehe :) | 14:52 |
| glass | like, what good is pro forum dedicated support person if he doesn't read his fucking mails or answer them | 14:52 |
| aquatix | well, he's the *forum* person ;) | 14:53 |
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| wazd | Aw, have I missed holywar again?( | 14:53 |
| RST38h | glass: reminds me of the demotivation poster with the phone | 14:54 |
| glass | RST38h: haha :p | 14:54 |
| RST38h | wazd: naah, just bitching about Symbian Signing. So, are you redesigning App manager UI? =) | 14:54 |
| qwerty12_N800 | GeneralAntilles, I've learnt that's there is no point in convincing a company that doesn't listen. I'd say that it is more about me posting the things that have been on my mind. To me, Nokia can choke sucking my knob. while maemo.org & community is brilliant. | 14:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | I keep thinking that "Problems with Mer..." thread is where we can all go to complain about Stskeeps. :P | 14:55 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: so it is | 14:56 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 14:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | ...Stskeeps | 14:56 |
| Stskeeps | ;> | 14:56 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Nah, you can /msg Stskeeps for that :p | 14:56 |
| RST38h | glass: BTW, as an S60 guy, would you know why AknSettingsList shows all settings from multiple objects in the same control in S60e5? | 14:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N800, don't think of Nokia as one giant entity. | 14:56 |
| glass | RST38h: nope, theres #symbian here with couple of good guys though, tbh i never really used akn much | 14:57 |
| RST38h | General: a corporate policy is that every employee represents the same corporation so they should all have the same corporate point of view | 14:57 |
| qwerty12_N800 | GeneralAntilles, it's hard not to though after only ever hearing the same thing. | 14:58 |
| RST38h | glass: Neither did I :( | 14:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mostly what you accomplished by spouting off like that is to put the people who are already on your side (Quim, in this case) in a bad position while having zero effect on the people actually making the bad decisions | 14:58 |
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| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: re quim's post it might be an issue of that it is not immediately obviously on how to participate and contribute to the projects.. i mean, garage kinda just presents "these people work on this", but not direct methods for cooperating and contribution, compared to lets say, wikipedia, where you can contribute just by "edit" :P | 15:03 |
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| Stskeeps | and collaboration structure is not easy to make either | 15:06 |
| * lcuk would like to store information trees in a wikiesq database and let end users sync to the latest | 15:08 | |
| johnx | lcuk, that's called svn | 15:09 |
| lcuk | yeah but "users" arent used to doing that (and git is better) | 15:10 |
| lcuk | johnx, we are used to it for code | 15:10 |
| johnx | s/svn/an scm/ | 15:10 |
| infobot | johnx meant: lcuk, that's called an scm | 15:10 |
| johnx | users get nightly tarballs or autobuilt packages | 15:10 |
| RST38h | Looks like there is a problem you are missing | 15:11 |
| lcuk | johnx, i mean for data not code | 15:12 |
| lcuk | ie ui layouts and stuff | 15:12 |
| RST38h | The problem is that the chances of seeing your contributions appear in an official Nokia software update are very slim | 15:12 |
| johnx | lcuk, nightly packages in an apt repository are still a good way to do data distribution | 15:13 |
| RST38h | No technical feature (SVN, GIT, Wiki, whatever) will solve that. It is a matter of policy. | 15:13 |
| qwerty12_N800 | RST38h, so true. | 15:13 |
| lcuk | johnx, my point wasn't "its not possible", its "its not usual" | 15:13 |
| johnx | right, but I was just answering lcuk :) | 15:14 |
| johnx | lcuk, nope, but if you want help setting it up, I might be able to offer some help | 15:15 |
| lcuk | theres other issues svn introduces which arent as apparant with wikiesq model (collisions occur on the one file the user edits live on the cloud vs a whole subset of files needing managing) | 15:15 |
| lcuk | i will need something in the near future johnx, it relates to the entire profile of user/system data and between machines | 15:15 |
| johnx | aaaah, so a contribution system for non-programmers. I thought you were just talking about users as the consumers | 15:15 |
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| lcuk | long range :: once i start making new tiles and cells it should be possible for 50 users to contribute their own favorite layout for X class in Y context. i want a way for ratings and voting to adapt the "default" interface to let the community improve the look and feel of apps easily without having to be technical developers | 15:18 |
| lcuk | since an interface file is just a small thing that says show this data here using this style its entirely feasible for the technical app to simply present the data as expected | 15:20 |
| johnx | have users submit to a wiki and scrape it off? | 15:21 |
| lcuk | well thats the simplest | 15:21 |
| lcuk | but when a user connects after being offline for a week theres 100 files changed, he doesnt want to manage the collisions | 15:22 |
| lcuk | and he doesnt want his personal decisions overwritten either | 15:22 |
| johnx | right, so scrape off a wiki and into a package | 15:22 |
| johnx | there's already a unix-y solution to that: files in /home/$USER/.liqtiles are searched first, then /usr/share/liqtiles | 15:23 |
| lcuk | and the meaning of wiki in this context is wiki == generational database == git == svn | 15:23 |
| lcuk | yes ive got functions to enumerate multiple folders like that | 15:23 |
| lcuk | but theres other issues as well | 15:23 |
| johnx | right, but it might be easier to have a backend process automatically scrape a wiki and generate a package then to make an easy frontend to svn | 15:23 |
| lcuk | yeah 100% agree | 15:24 |
| lcuk | it could simply be the server process itself that supplies a dataset based on the connected client | 15:24 |
| johnx | hmm? probably being thick, but I didn't follow that last bit | 15:25 |
| lcuk | ive got half a mind to put the code directly in liqbase to test and have my n810 clients connect to the x41 server | 15:25 |
| johnx | :/ | 15:25 |
| lcuk | heh | 15:25 |
| lcuk | ok, for the server process to use libliqbase :) | 15:26 |
| lcuk | cos that already knows the layouts and structures required and can extract the required metadata out of the media files | 15:26 |
| johnx | I suppose... | 15:27 |
| lcuk | heh, i have to get away from calling everything liqbase, im already writing simple little apps which just open up and run and close again :) | 15:28 |
| johnx | so liq on the client, will just connect to the server and pull layouts down to $HOME/.liq or whatever | 15:29 |
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| lcuk | basically thats the idea | 15:29 |
| RST38h | liqpaint | 15:34 |
| RST38h | liqword | 15:34 |
| johnx | I kind of like the idea of updated packages better... | 15:34 |
| Stskeeps | liqoffice | 15:34 |
| RST38h | liqsheet ? mmm | 15:34 |
| qwerty12_N800 | liqoffice | 15:34 |
| lcuk | im not licking any shit | 15:34 |
| qwerty12_N800 | liqshit | 15:35 |
| RST38h | lcuk: BTW, have you seen Nokia's paint app for the S60e5? | 15:35 |
| lcuk | no, but i bet it has many things more than my simple app :) (mind you, drawing in the sand does as well) | 15:36 |
| RST38h | not really :) | 15:36 |
| lcuk | lemme see | 15:36 |
| RST38h | But I thought you can steal the overall UI | 15:36 |
| RST38h | http://www.allaboutsymbian.com/news/item/8752_Mobile_Paint_for_the_5800_and_.php | 15:37 |
| lcuk | i have my design for the ui :) | 15:37 |
| RST38h | http://symbianworld.org/1143-mobile-paint-for-the-nokia-5800-xpressmusic/ | 15:37 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Screenshots? =) | 15:37 |
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| lcuk | whats wrong with the current layout? but theres other things ( pupnik's corner nodes look amazing and scale well ) | 15:38 |
| RST38h | The last version I have seen had controls at a fixed spot and they obscured too much of the canvas | 15:39 |
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| lcuk | technically thats what the fullscreen button should be for :) | 15:43 |
| lcuk | the UI presented is fine, but if you want it to go away you press fullscreen, sorted | 15:44 |
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| pupnik_ | lcuk: wut? implemented? you them? wut? | 15:45 |
| RST38h | you can't use it if you turn it off completely, can you? | 15:45 |
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| pupnik_ | some kind of quick way to pick brush and color/shade is essential to drawing and staying in right-brain mode | 15:46 |
| * Gadgetoid envies this channel, OpenPandora is so... dead | 15:46 | |
| pupnik_ | navigating menus, reading text kicks one into leftbrain mode | 15:47 |
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| lcuk | since liqsketch isnt even a bitmap drawing prog its not really important ;) | 15:47 |
| pupnik_ | we have actual devices Gadgetoid | 15:47 |
| pupnik_ | ok | 15:47 |
| Gadgetoid | Yeah pupnik_, I hear ya there! | 15:47 |
| lcuk | RST38h, on a device this small its always compromise | 15:47 |
| pupnik_ | that's what my girlfriend said! | 15:48 |
| lcuk | you are a dev, come up with a usable ui and ill implement it | 15:48 |
| RST38h | lcuk: And Nokia handles it pretty well with its small icon bars overlaid onto the screen (see their Touch Paint and also the Media Bar in S60e5) | 15:48 |
| RST38h | Hiding UI completely also work and is simpler but it is somewhat more cumbersome to the user | 15:48 |
| johnx | Gadgetoid, check pandoradev on efnet as well | 15:49 |
| lcuk | RST38h, how are those any different to mine really? | 15:49 |
| lcuk | i have 640*480 usable drawing space | 15:49 |
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| RST38h | i.e. 160x480 (20% of the screen space) is lost | 15:50 |
| RST38h | You can reduce that to 5% | 15:50 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: http://rafb.net/p/P3TzSg39.html <- hildon crash | 15:51 |
| RST38h | And even less if you make icons simple and transparent | 15:51 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: there seems to be stack corruption | 15:51 |
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| johnx | eep O_o | 15:52 |
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| Stskeeps | (proxy goes from being real to 0x0) | 15:52 |
| johnx | yeah, I've been playing with it a bit | 15:52 |
| Stskeeps | i just wonder if it's a toolchain thing or something else :P | 15:53 |
| lcuk | RST38h, but then i have to click twice to change things | 15:55 |
| RST38h | lcuk: No, why? | 15:56 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, that does narrow it down. I'll try building on native arm just for fun. think it's in hildon-desktop? | 15:56 |
| Gadgetoid | Hmm | 15:56 |
| Gadgetoid | Aha | 15:56 |
| lcuk | once to open the menu another to click the item | 15:56 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: oh, no | 15:56 |
| wazd | okay, yesterday's question is stil here | 15:56 |
| wazd | Can I sue ISP for it's sexual orientation? | 15:57 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: not sure yet but its either or glib or gtk else.. | 15:57 |
| lcuk | oh, yes, look at the color palette on your example app - you have to click to change color | 15:57 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: The strip of icons is always at the screen (unless you hide it with FullScreen like you do now) | 15:57 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: maybe in russia.. | 15:57 |
| RST38h | wazd: your ISP has certain preferences? | 15:57 |
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| johnx | Stskeeps, ah, but I didn't upgrade gtk/glib :) | 15:57 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: yeah, but me neither, it should be the one from repo | 15:57 |
| lcuk | click once brings up the color select, then change the color with another click and probably a third to accept that selection | 15:57 |
| wazd | RST38h: my ISP is definetely not the straight one | 15:57 |
| RST38h | lcuk: But the icons are rrrrreally simple (single color, transparent background) | 15:58 |
| RST38h | lcuk: and they are only 40x40 each, arranged in a slim strip | 15:58 |
| johnx | ah, well I'll build hildon-desktop natively and see what happens | 15:58 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: k, from apt-source i presume? | 15:58 |
| lcuk | i dont care how really simple they are, its wasteful to have to click 3 times to change a color | 15:58 |
| lcuk | deluxe paint had it right :) | 15:58 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, that was the idea | 15:59 |
| RST38h | lcuk: for changing colors you can still have a palette like you do now, just small and having a button-like frame | 15:59 |
| wazd | Bubbles on Mer wallpaper will look silly | 15:59 |
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| lcuk | but these kinds of conversations are why i want multiple uis for an app :) | 15:59 |
| lcuk | you should be able to have the interface as you expect | 15:59 |
| lcuk | whatever my religion :) | 15:59 |
| wazd | http://s59.radikal.ru/i163/0901/af/91b429e669dc.jpg | 16:00 |
| RST38h | wazd: dump it! tell 'em you do not love 'em any more | 16:00 |
| RST38h | lcuk: just one good one will be better | 16:00 |
| wazd | what icons are you discussing? | 16:01 |
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| wazd | RTS38h: the worst thing is that it's the only ISP in here | 16:01 |
| RST38h | wazd: liqbase UI | 16:02 |
| lcuk | RST38h, we will never ever get a single glorious perfect ui which everyone will be happy with - its like football and religion and anything, you will have your predefined expectations and would be best to allow the dev to write features and let the UI departments supply the layout | 16:03 |
| RST38h | wazd: I insist on having an icon strip similar to the 5800 media bar. Lcuk just wants to have a 160x480 bar with icons at the right, like the old MS Paint or Designer+ | 16:03 |
| RST38h | wazd: What district? And can't you just switch to Stream? | 16:04 |
| wazd | RST38h: damn center of Moscow( | 16:04 |
| wazd | RST38h: Stream works here even worse, thanks to WW2 landlines | 16:05 |
| RST38h | wazd: Oh yes | 16:05 |
| RST38h | wazd: What about fixed WiMax? | 16:05 |
| wazd | RST38h: doesn't work near my home for now | 16:05 |
| lcuk | technically RST38h that colorbar could give us both what we want, if i want a big palette that works live with a single click the palette icon could be bigger and live, if you want click to select and smaller that should also work | 16:06 |
| wazd | RST38h: can you show a screenshot with 5800 mediabar? I'm not very familliar with that device | 16:07 |
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| pupnik_ | hi like it wazd | 16:07 |
| wazd | lcuk: you want to change icon's colors? | 16:07 |
| lcuk | but why is space wasted with a close button? dont these devices have a hardware back button? | 16:07 |
| lcuk | no wazd | 16:07 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Exactly | 16:07 |
| lcuk | but the app works the same, its all a matter of ui layout | 16:07 |
| lcuk | and i have my preferences and you have yours | 16:08 |
| RST38h | wazd: http://www.smartdevicecentral.com/slide/Nokia+5800+XpressMusic/232665_233881_11_0.aspx | 16:08 |
| RST38h | wazd: (but with transparent icons) | 16:08 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: I doubt you can make such drastic UI changes with settings...although it all depends on what these settings are, if they are a script... | 16:09 |
| wazd | in fact Iike hildon concept | 16:09 |
| lcuk | no, they are part UI layout (Ive sketched hundreds of alternative layouts for all sorts of apps) | 16:10 |
| wazd | 1 hardware button to get rid of UI from the screen | 16:10 |
| lcuk | wazd, hildon didnt invent it - its been available in lots of places for a long long time | 16:10 |
| wazd | lcuk: whatever :) | 16:11 |
| lcuk | (f11 on browser windows) | 16:11 |
| lcuk | hardware button to get rid of ui | 16:11 |
| lcuk | deluxepaint had similar and im sure lots of apps do as well | 16:11 |
| wazd | lcuk: but it was first on mobile I think | 16:11 |
| LinuxCode | did somebody mention deluxepaint ? | 16:12 |
| LinuxCode | ;-D | 16:12 |
| lcuk | huh? laptops were around long before | 16:12 |
| wazd | no, I don't mean standalone app | 16:12 |
| * LinuxCode reminisces in old AMiga times | 16:12 | |
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| wazd | I mean whole OS UI | 16:12 |
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| RST38h | wazd: http://www.mosnet.ru/ao/61/ | 16:13 |
| lcuk | wazd, that its a good feature isnt disputed, but its not specifically hildon | 16:13 |
| wazd | lcuk: can you show what do you want to do with UI? | 16:13 |
| RST38h | wazd: the hide-all-ui model isn't going to be good if you use UI often, like in a sketching app | 16:13 |
| lcuk | i thought i had already started to wazd | 16:15 |
| wazd | RST38h: Hildon doesn't hide all UI | 16:15 |
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| RST38h | wazd: http://liqbase.net/ ! | 16:15 |
| wazd | ah, I thought you came up with something new) | 16:16 |
| wazd | sorry) | 16:16 |
| lcuk | no im all done now, the well is dry nothing at all left in me *rolleyes* | 16:17 |
| wazd | Well, for sketch app it's the best layout probably | 16:17 |
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| lcuk | its certainly simple and effective and it passes the 6year old test :) | 16:18 |
| lcuk | and the 85year old one | 16:18 |
| wazd | all graphics editors uses pretty much same scheme | 16:18 |
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| Meiz_n810 | Stskeeps: segfault problem fixed? | 16:20 |
| * Meiz_n810 is dist-upgrading his mer installation... | 16:20 | |
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| * Meiz_n810 boots to Mer | 16:21 | |
| Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: no | 16:22 |
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| wazd | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cnsaDc6criM < browser speed, Atom vs OMAP3 | 16:34 |
| johnx | that's so far from scientific... | 16:37 |
| lcuk | in the rx-51 spec is there a accelerometer ? | 16:38 |
| johnx | well, there's one enabled in nokia's kernel config | 16:39 |
| lcuk | thats enough | 16:39 |
| RST38h | wazd: none of these guys (mosnet) have wiring at your home? | 16:40 |
| wazd | RST38h: nope, we have only one( | 16:40 |
| wazd | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DjiTAX6L2-k - hope pandora guys didn't take that seriously :) | 16:41 |
| wazd | Pandora need not touchscreen oriented UI | 16:42 |
| RST38h | it will use direct mindmelt interface | 16:43 |
| wazd | RST38h: that's better :) | 16:43 |
| lcuk | wazd, the omap is using lower res ;) | 16:43 |
| lcuk | its not like for like | 16:43 |
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| lcuk | offtopic: windows 2000 is there a msconfig type thing? | 16:44 |
| johnx | wazd, neat idea, but I think that you'll definitely need to get the community in on that design as the pandora guys do not have the manpower to do their own GUI I think... | 16:44 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, maybe sysinternals autoruns (freeware) | 16:44 |
| lcuk | its a craptop with a floppy, no cd rom no wireless or usb | 16:45 |
| Stskeeps | i'm thinking.. is there really other device communities where marketing, UI, kernel&hw, userland coders, etc, discuss for pages and pages of posts on their community websites? | 16:45 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, Think it's small enough to fit on a floppy... | 16:45 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, not even on the pandora :) | 16:45 |
| lcuk | there is exactly one floppy drive in this house (found this morning) | 16:46 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, some do more than just talk, my fingers are aching from what im trying to achieve :) | 16:46 |
| wazd | lcuk: I think it should be in 2K since it is in XP | 16:47 |
| wazd | ctrl+r - msconfig | 16:47 |
| lcuk | no, its not, but thats ok | 16:47 |
| qwerty12_N800 | regedt32 ;) | 16:48 |
| lcuk | its ok its sorting itself out, its just a really ancient toshiba jake seems to have attachd himself onto was taking forever loading stuff it doesnt need | 16:49 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, actually, do you mean "do the users discuss?" or "do the people who made the device participate?" | 16:50 |
| wazd | Pandora needs UI like PSP or something, analog stick oriented | 16:52 |
| wazd | cause I don't know how to use touchscreen with clamshel formfactor | 16:52 |
| johnx | right, and someone needs to cook that up, but I'm betting it's not the pandora devs who will make it :) | 16:53 |
| pupnik_ | they have a simple game-selector thing that runs on boot, as an alternative to a full os, afaik | 16:53 |
| johnx | actually touchscreen in a "small laptop" form factor with a stylus isn't that bad | 16:53 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: latter | 16:54 |
| RST38h | wazd: pandora needs hardware to be released and shipped to people who ordered it | 16:55 |
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| johnx | hmm, then "not that I know of." At least not on any big forums | 16:55 |
| wazd | RST38h: dreams dreams :) | 16:55 |
| RST38h | wazd: As to UI, it has got a directional pad, so that should not be a problem | 16:55 |
| RST38h | A simple menu will do | 16:55 |
| johnx | the company that made the zipit1 and 2 communicated pretty well, but that was usually via private mail | 16:56 |
| johnx | oooh, batteries arrived for the pandora :) | 16:57 |
| johnx | (not to me, but to the people putting them together) | 16:58 |
| Stskeeps | heh | 16:58 |
| Stskeeps | refurbished sony batteries/the ones that exploded? | 16:58 |
| Stskeeps | ;) | 16:58 |
| johnx | actually, they're custom batteries that are the size of the whole bottom of the pandora. runs an omap3 at full tilt for ~8 hours | 16:59 |
| RST38h | Pandora vs. Optimus Maximus: FIGHT! | 16:59 |
| johnx | RST38h, well, the pandora will have a better keyboard... | 16:59 |
| pupnik_ | better than n810? | 17:00 |
| RST38h | johnx: Will it have more pixels though? | 17:00 |
| johnx | pupnik_, nah, probably not. more of a joke on the optimus maximum | 17:00 |
| * pupnik_ does the 4000 mAh dance | 17:00 | |
| RST38h | Energizer Bunny? | 17:01 |
| wazd | whoa, pandora will have a car battery?) | 17:01 |
| johnx | RST38h, "the optimus maximus features crisp lettuce and tender chicken, but the pandora included refried beans and zesty cheese sauce" | 17:01 |
| johnx | wazd, yup. comes in a backpack. :P | 17:02 |
| pupnik_ | if you ever do put a car battery in a backpack, make sure you have a sealed enclosure | 17:02 |
| pupnik_ | i have pics of what results if you don't | 17:02 |
| RST38h | pupnik: gel-based batteries are sealed, they don't leak | 17:02 |
| johnx | pupnik_, so that the gas can accumulate? I think you want some vents .... | 17:02 |
| wazd | I wonder how 1300 mAh battery can power n800 for 6 hours and 4000 mAh battery can power Panda for only 10 hours then | 17:03 |
| pupnik_ | sorry sealed from leakage, not air | 17:03 |
| johnx | RST38h, car batteries generally aren't "gel cells" | 17:03 |
| pupnik_ | i.e. a bucket | 17:03 |
| RST38h | johnx: The one I had in a Camry certainly was | 17:03 |
| johnx | wazd, turn your screen to full bright, CPU at 100% and wifi downloading something. you won't see 6 hours then | 17:03 |
| johnx | RST38h, from the factory? or because you spent a lot of money on an expensive battery? | 17:03 |
| pupnik_ | wazd: also more ram = more drain, plus they're being conservative | 17:04 |
| RST38h | johnx: (and yes, I have seen the insides, after it exploded) | 17:04 |
| pupnik_ | why did your battery splode? | 17:04 |
| RST38h | johnx: It wasn't the first battery, yes. | 17:04 |
| RST38h | pupnik: A short. | 17:04 |
| RST38h | pupnik: Have been scrapping gel for three hours afterwards | 17:04 |
| johnx | so did you switch back to wet cells? | 17:05 |
| wazd | johnx: Panda will do 10 hours on that load?) | 17:05 |
| RST38h | johnx: No, I have put a bigger battery! =) | 17:05 |
| johnx | wazd, 8 :) but yes, they did a stress test | 17:05 |
| johnx | RST38h, you're doing it all wrong. :P You want the lightest battery that can start your car | 17:06 |
| RST38h | johnx: Are wet cells better somehow? | 17:06 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: how's h-d baking? | 17:06 |
| jaska | they need to make handheld-usable radioisotope thermal generators | 17:06 |
| RST38h | johnx: well, I am not a car guy. If it runs and does not cause me problems, I am happy. | 17:06 |
| jaska | so i can keep them at 100% load for 40 years at a time or so | 17:06 |
| johnx | RST38h, yeah they don't cost a fortune :) | 17:06 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, just died as you mentioned it | 17:06 |
| Stskeeps | lovely | 17:07 |
| Stskeeps | schroedingers h-d | 17:07 |
| RST38h | johnx: cost me something like $50, was it expensive? | 17:07 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, died in the gtk-doc part of the build | 17:07 |
| johnx | RST38h, nah, not that expensive, but I'd be leary of a gel cell that cheap. :) they tend to explode :D | 17:08 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: define died? | 17:08 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, nevermind...forgot to enable swap | 17:08 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 17:09 |
| johnx | <- fails it | 17:09 |
| RST38h | johnx: First time I hear this. | 17:09 |
| johnx | RST38h, just kidding about that, but that does strike me as a cheap gel cell :) | 17:09 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: i'm gonna build a new hildon-desktop-env btw | 17:09 |
| RST38h | johnx: I was actually surprised that I couldn't buy a gel battery in Moscow | 17:09 |
| johnx | RST38h, most of "the good ones" (dunno what makes them good) were upwards of $150 IIRC (been a while since I was a car guy :) ) | 17:10 |
| Stskeeps | (i push to lp:~mer-committers/m-r/hildon-desktop-env) | 17:10 |
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| johnx | Stskeeps, ok, if I change anything I'll push there from now on | 17:10 |
| Stskeeps | alright | 17:10 |
| Stskeeps | 770 didn't do thumb did it? | 17:12 |
| johnx | the t in armv5te is thumb I believe | 17:12 |
| johnx | I think t is one of the important requirements for EABI | 17:12 |
| Stskeeps | does your zaurus do thumb? :P | 17:13 |
| johnx | yes, it's armv5te :) | 17:13 |
| Stskeeps | mmk | 17:14 |
| johnx | yup, Features: swp half thumb fastmult edsp iwmmxt | 17:14 |
| Stskeeps | k | 17:14 |
| RST38h | -t is for thumb but EABI does not require it afaik | 17:15 |
| johnx | RST38h, I've heard about there being some differences between ARM's EABI standard and the EABI implementation for linux. But currently EABI in linux requires an armv4t or later, with the armv4 (strongarm) being OABI | 17:16 |
| RST38h | johnx: Given that Thumb is disabled unless you specifically enable it, I find it strange | 17:17 |
| RST38h | i.e. you have to TELL gcc use thumb | 17:17 |
| johnx | RST38h, I go by what I see here: http://wiki.debian.org/ArmEabiPort | 17:18 |
| johnx | see "Thumb interworking suggests armv4t" | 17:18 |
| johnx | it is entirely possible that's incorrect or I'm misinterpreting it. in which case clarification would be nice :) | 17:19 |
| RST38h | johnx: Ah you mean this | 17:20 |
| johnx | "The EABI includes thumb interworking" | 17:20 |
| RST38h | johnx: thumb interworking is an optional EABI feature that lets you mix ARM and THUMB code in the same program | 17:20 |
| RST38h | johnx: If you do not have THUMB in your CPU, you can still use the same ABI but you obviously should disable thumb interworking when compiling code | 17:21 |
| RST38h | (in fact, gcc has it disabled by default :)) | 17:21 |
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| johnx | fair enough. I guess my thinking is from the perspective of the user of a binary distro on ARM devices: Becuase debian/ubuntu/(probably fedora) are compiled with thumb interworking enabled, they won't run on an armv4l | 17:22 |
| johnx | a fact which saddens me :/ | 17:22 |
| RST38h | correct | 17:23 |
| RST38h | But it is really not a given fact that your app will work faster in Thumb mode | 17:24 |
| RST38h | Sometimes it will, depending on how complex your code is | 17:24 |
| johnx | the more complex the code = the more it helps be reducing contention for CPU cache, right? | 17:25 |
| RST38h | Nope | 17:25 |
| johnx | well, I like that theory :P :) | 17:25 |
| RST38h | code cache contention depends on two things only: your binary size (MIPS sucks at that btw) and the number of far jumps you are making | 17:26 |
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| johnx | but doesn't thumb produce smaller binary size? | 17:26 |
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| RST38h | Thumb helps that by using 16bit instructions | 17:27 |
| RST38h | Also, if you have got 16bit data bus, Thumb code will run better over it | 17:28 |
| lcuk | but non thumb code can do a lot more per op | 17:28 |
| trenka | lcuk: why? | 17:28 |
| RST38h | BUT you lose: conditional execution (read: more jumps), free shifts, large constants usage | 17:29 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: did you see wazd's artwork btw? | 17:29 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: it can't | 17:29 |
| lcuk | because a full 32bit opcode can do multiple step operations in one go because they are encoded within | 17:29 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, that background? looks great doesn't it? :D | 17:29 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: yeah, and logo | 17:29 |
| Stskeeps | i put the background along with titan theme in | 17:29 |
| lcuk | sure it can, go read on the full things which can be done with a single 32bit opcode | 17:29 |
| RST38h | Thumb has less functionality per opcode, so if you are coding in assembly, you can get better mileage out of 32bit ARm usually | 17:29 |
| lcuk | yeah rst, but standard compilers cannot easily use the full functionality well | 17:30 |
| johnx | RST38h, "...but non thumb code ..." | 17:30 |
| RST38h | johnx: ? | 17:30 |
| johnx | RST38h, I think you guys are agreeing :) | 17:30 |
| lcuk | johnx, 32bit opcode can do more than 16bit thumb. "non thumb code" == 32bit mode | 17:31 |
| RST38h | lcuk: 100% correct | 17:31 |
| johnx | lcuk, right, got that. :) | 17:31 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, native build dies too | 17:31 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: huh | 17:32 |
| RST38h | BTW, Nintendo recommends 32bit ARM when running code from SRAM but 16bit thumb when running code from 16bit cartridge ROM | 17:32 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: native build dies on tablet too?! | 17:32 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, the build worked. hildon-desktop dies | 17:32 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, are you seeing a weird gconf error? | 17:32 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: yeah, i saw that at one point, but when running as root that didn't show | 17:32 |
| RST38h | johnx: Oh, I forgot one more thing: | 17:33 |
| RST38h | johnx: Reading SDRAM sequentially is like 1 clock per read but latching a new address (when jumping for example) is 8 clocks or so | 17:34 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: so what big changes have we made since hildon-desktop compile? gconf? | 17:34 |
| RST38h | so in RISC architectures conditional execution often wins over short jumps | 17:34 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, that seems to be the biggest one, doesn't it? | 17:34 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: lemme just grab the .deb for the old version | 17:34 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: or not, hm | 17:35 |
| * Stskeeps notes his backup rotation doesn't work | 17:36 | |
| Stskeeps | or at least not visibly | 17:36 |
| Stskeeps | (backup works, but not rotation) | 17:36 |
| johnx | eep | 17:36 |
| gladiac | has someone a simple example for writing a deb file for maemo | 17:36 |
| johnx | gladiac, there's some info here: http://maemo.org/maemo_training_material/maemo4.x/html/maemo_Application_Development/Chapter_07_Packaging_Applications.html | 17:39 |
| johnx | and I'd be happy to try and answer questions if you have any | 17:39 |
| johnx | emphasis on *try* :) | 17:39 |
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| johnx | Stskeeps, any thoughts on whether it might be in maemo-launcher? | 17:40 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: no, i gdb'ed hildon-desktop.launch | 17:41 |
| gladiac | I'm a rpm user, so I have to learn how things work with deb now | 17:41 |
| Stskeeps | and left maemo-launcher out of the picture | 17:41 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: what gconf version do we have? | 17:41 |
| Stskeeps | nm | 17:42 |
| disq | anybody have experience with DBusGProxy stuff? trying to listen for a signal, couldn't get it to work | 17:47 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: maemo glib.. hmm: debian/patches/01-dbus-gproxy-crash-fix.patch: Refresh. | 17:48 |
| Stskeeps | dbus glib that is | 17:48 |
| johnx | so odd that it worked before... | 17:49 |
| Stskeeps | looks like we safely can build libdbus-glib | 17:50 |
| Stskeeps | it's up to date | 17:50 |
| wjt | disq: could you pastebin your code? | 17:50 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, want me to do a build? | 17:50 |
| disq | sure | 17:50 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: i'm already going at it | 17:51 |
| johnx | ok | 17:51 |
| disq | wjt: http://pastebin.ca/1305982 | 17:52 |
| johnx | ah, and I still have to make zenity do the right thing | 17:52 |
| disq | wjt: details_received actually returns an array btw. | 17:53 |
| wjt | disq: what goes wrong? | 17:53 |
| disq | wjt: callback is not called | 17:54 |
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| disq | went looking for some examples, couldn't come up with any except the one in the maemo sdk ref | 17:56 |
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| disq | kmplayer sets up a filter to listen for signals but it's too costly for just one signal | 17:56 |
| wjt | disq: so, you're adding the signal with the wrong type, and wondering why it doesn't work? :) | 17:56 |
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| disq | wjt: how am i supposed to add DBus.Array type as a gtype? GTYPE_POINTER etc fails | 17:57 |
| wjt | disq: what's it an array of? | 17:58 |
| disq | a key/value dict. | 17:59 |
| wjt | is it a(sv), a{sv}, what? | 18:00 |
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| disq | i don't have the xml or the source, i'm going by dbus-monitor output. (gah pastebin so slow, hang on) | 18:01 |
| wjt | you can call Introspect on the object and get the XML | 18:01 |
| disq | I tried not adding the signal first, just connecting to it. got a warning. | 18:03 |
| disq | I think if introspect would work I wouldn't get the warning but not sure | 18:03 |
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| wjt | introspection isn't synchronous | 18:04 |
| disq | ah | 18:05 |
| Jaffa | re | 18:06 |
| wjt | but i can't figure out how you're supposed to know when it's happened | 18:06 |
| wjt | Anyway. If it's an a(xy) (that is, a list of two-element structs) you can use dbus_g_type_get_collection ("GPtrArray", dbus_g_type_get_struct ("GValueArray", G_TYPE_x, G_TYPE_y, G_TYPE_INVALID)); | 18:07 |
| wjt | If it's an a{xy} (that is, a dict mapping x to y) you use dbus_g_type_get_map ("GHashTable", G_TYPE_x, G_TYPE_y); | 18:08 |
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| disq | ah, nice | 18:11 |
| disq | thanks :) | 18:11 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: building new dbus-glib | 18:13 |
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| johnx | pushed zenity :) | 18:14 |
| Stskeeps | i just really hope that fixes it | 18:14 |
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| johnx | yeah | 18:15 |
| disq | wjt: worked, thanks a lot (it was a hash table) | 18:15 |
| * johnx crosses his fingers | 18:15 | |
| disq | (well, turned out to be I mean) | 18:15 |
| wjt | disq: great! | 18:16 |
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| wjt | disq: if you're feeling particularly adventurous you could run the introspect XML though telepathy-glib's binding generator to get nice wrappers around this stuff | 18:17 |
| disq | I'm afraid I never feel adventurous when it comes to dbus :) | 18:17 |
| wjt | Whenever I have to do this directly I have to go read some example code to figure out how to drive dbus_g_type_get_* :) | 18:17 |
| disq | (introspect returned empty string btw, maybe I couldn't call it properly) | 18:18 |
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| disq | DBUS_TYPE_G_STRING_STRING_HASHTABLE that was what i was looking for btw. it's in dbus-glib.h and i totally missed it | 18:20 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: it just really wonders me it first happened when we compiled with new headers.. maybe it's cos gconf2 is dbus based now | 18:21 |
| johnx | well, I assume we'll know once that build finishes | 18:24 |
| Stskeeps | i honestly think there's material enough to several research papers on open source projects in all the threads and discussions there's been on iTT.. | 18:25 |
| johnx | ah! I just remembered a project I was thinking of: Neuros has been doing open source for a while and they actually have a pretty active community forum I believe | 18:26 |
| johnx | they also have bounties out for lots of projects | 18:27 |
| Stskeeps | that's true | 18:27 |
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| Stskeeps | m¤"%"%"% | 18:28 |
| johnx | also, thecus (makes ARM based NAS boxes) has been very friendly with the debian-arm guys, hence most of the debian-arm build boxes being thecus N2100s (or they were at some point) | 18:28 |
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| * Stskeeps is getting really tired of autotools | 18:30 | |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: can you grab the updated dbus-glib? built them manually | 18:38 |
| Stskeeps | and test if it works | 18:39 |
| johnx | sure, is it in the repo or somewhere else? | 18:39 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 18:39 |
| * Stskeeps wonders if nokia & community are doing soul searching or something.. | 18:40 | |
| johnx | hmm? why do you say that? | 18:41 |
| Stskeeps | just pondering on the intensity of the threads the last couple of days | 18:41 |
| johnx | ah, I've been purposely avoiding them | 18:41 |
| Stskeeps | hehe, i'm not going to participate either, since i actually do something :P | 18:42 |
| johnx | half the community is dying for an omap3 and the other half is dying for updates to the n8x0 | 18:42 |
| mavhc | and one guy has cancer | 18:42 |
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| qwerty12 | lardman, no. I've seen the build-depends on the package, thank you very much :P | 18:43 |
| wjt | disq: that's not a GType | 18:44 |
| wjt | disq: dbus_g_proxy_add_signal takes gtypes | 18:45 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: we should so make first-boot-wizard and hildon-desktop-env beerware.. | 18:46 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:46 |
| johnx | heh | 18:46 |
| Stskeeps | just imagine summit 09 then ;) | 18:47 |
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| johnx | hmmm...beer. sounds like a good idea actually | 18:47 |
| pupnik_ | when i was 17.... | 18:47 |
| pupnik_ | i had a very good beer... | 18:47 |
| johnx | pupnik_, when I was 16 I started on horrible beer. Wasn't until I tried Japanese beer than I could stomach more than a bit at a time | 18:47 |
| lardman|home | qwerty12: you can get rid of almost all of those | 18:47 |
| qwerty12 | lardman|home, sounds good... Does it need vfp? | 18:48 |
| pupnik_ | "It Was a Very Good Year" is a song composed by Ervin Drake in 1961 and subsequently made famous by Frank Sinatra. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/It_Was_a_Very_Good_Year | 18:48 |
| lardman|home | qwerty12: doens't need it, but ideally yes | 18:48 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: on the other hand, sake is something of the worst i've ever tasted in my life :P | 18:49 |
| qwerty12 | lardman|home, cool, it's no problem, just wondering... | 18:49 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, try compari. ten times worse than sake. | 18:49 |
| Stskeeps | and i've had my share of cheap vodkas | 18:49 |
| johnx | and I've had my share of cheap everclear | 18:49 |
| qwerty12 | lardman|home, which version? 1:2.1.73-13, octave2.1, octave3.0 or octave3.1? | 18:50 |
| lardman|home | qwerty12: http://packages.debian.org/lenny/octave3.0, of this lot you can remove blas, libglpk0, libhdf5*, liblapack3gf, libpcre3, libqhull5, libsuitesparse-3.1.0, libunwind7 | 18:50 |
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| lardman|home | basically the only deps you need to install are ncurses and readline | 18:50 |
| qwerty12 | ok | 18:50 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, first test with the mer libdbus-glib-1-2 installed, hildon-desktop dies the same way | 18:50 |
| lardman|home | those other bits are accelerators, but not necessary in the first instance | 18:50 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: bollocks | 18:50 |
| johnx | I'm doing an apt-get upgrade just for fun | 18:50 |
| b-man | it looks like my ubuntu jaunty install is starting to die, first the keyboard, then gnome-pannel, then naiutills, now it is mostly booting into a wallpaper with metacity. :p Time to start the fun 6+ hour install prosess all over again :) | 18:51 |
| johnx | but holding hildon-desktop-env | 18:51 |
| * lardman|home is not sure about pcre3, but certainly didn't install it himself | 18:51 | |
| Stskeeps | b-man: wonder why we do tar.gz's? :P | 18:51 |
| b-man | hehe | 18:51 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: is gconfd really supposed to be run as a user? | 18:52 |
| johnx | it is in desktop linux, /me confirms | 18:52 |
| Stskeeps | k | 18:52 |
| johnx | yes, user | 18:52 |
| johnx | from /etc/X11/Xsesion.d/gconf or similar (depends on distro) | 18:52 |
| lardman|home | qwerty12: hmm, might need f2c as well though to compile it... | 18:54 |
| lardman|home | qwerty12: I can't remember and I can't seem to find the build dir either, annoying that | 18:54 |
| qwerty12 | I guess I'll find out :) | 18:54 |
| lardman|home | well give me a shout if you have troubles and I'll try to remember/compile it myself and send you the control file so you can submit it | 18:55 |
| qwerty12 | Sure, I'll leave it up to you to test as I don't know the first thing about octave ;) | 18:55 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: try remove all applets from the hildon statusbar (confs) and see if that helps | 18:55 |
| johnx | removed adv backlight | 18:55 |
| lardman|home | qwerty12: well type "octave" on the command line and if it doesn't crash you're all good | 18:55 |
| johnx | will remove the CPU applet once apt-get upgrade is complete | 18:55 |
| Stskeeps | k | 18:56 |
| qwerty12 | lardman|home, sounds foolproof :) | 18:56 |
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| qwerty12 | lardman|home, you sure it doesn't need the gfortran package? | 18:56 |
| lardman|home | not if you use f2c | 18:57 |
| qwerty12 | skeen | 18:57 |
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| lardman|home | or at least I don't think so, if you use f2c ;) | 18:57 |
| lardman|home | ah, I'll compile it, hang on a bit | 18:58 |
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| lardman|home | I should have f2c installed already | 18:58 |
| lardman|home | ~lart lardman for losing his octave build dir | 18:58 |
| * infobot blasts lardman to oblivion with a kamehameha wave for losing his octave build dir | 18:58 | |
| b1ackdeath | dose the home tools program have a config file that i can change so i can use it to monitor my ip from my usb lan adapter? | 18:59 |
| qwerty12 | It's python, edit it yourself. And no, I do not know what file to edit. | 19:00 |
| lardman|home | qwerty12: I'll give 3.1 a go, might as well go as new as possible :) | 19:00 |
| qwerty12 | lardman|home, cool :) | 19:00 |
| * lardman|home thinks that was what he compiled last time | 19:00 | |
| qwerty12 | lardman|home, if you compiled octave3.0_3.0.1-6lenny1.dsc, then I'm pretty sure that you didn't try to package it... | 19:01 |
| lardman|home | no, it didn't have lenny in the name | 19:02 |
| lardman|home | what's the problem? | 19:02 |
| qwerty12 | I have a feeling that you compiled one of the old ones | 19:02 |
| qwerty12 | A lot of problems that suggest that it will need a lot more than just packages removed from the build depends. | 19:03 |
| lardman|home | well it was about 3 months ag | 19:03 |
| lardman|home | ago | 19:03 |
| * Stskeeps ponders if stack protector works on arm | 19:04 | |
| lardman|home | they sure do like deps in Debian don't they! | 19:04 |
| lardman|home | hmm, would be good to get blas tuned for the hw | 19:05 |
| lardman|home | or is that atlas, hmm? | 19:05 |
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| lcuk | evening lardman|home \o | 19:10 |
| qwerty12 | lardman|home, got f2c installed but octave fails to see if even if I ./configure F77=f2c | 19:10 |
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| lardman|home | hmm | 19:12 |
| lardman|home | hey lcuk | 19:12 |
| lardman|home | hmm, needs slice too | 19:13 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: how long are you planning to stay here today btw? | 19:13 |
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| johnx | I can stay up a little later if you want me to test things, but otherwise I'll probably go to bed soonish | 19:14 |
| Stskeeps | nah, it's fine, trying to build a fstack-protector version, but seems like our toolchain is one that doesn't have it working | 19:15 |
| lcuk | johnx, you never sleep anyway - you just go and rest in your borg cabinet | 19:15 |
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| johnx | I get different output with the different versions of hildon-desktop... | 19:15 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, points to some kind of stack / memory problem | 19:16 |
| lardman|home | qwerty12: ok, I take it back, it was a pita to setup | 19:16 |
| johnx | lcuk, nah, I just photosynthesize in the light of CCFLs | 19:16 |
| qwerty12 | lardman|home, I saw that :). Which is why I rm -rf'ed it before :) | 19:16 |
| lardman|home | qwerty12: it needs slice, which needs some binary perl whatsit | 19:16 |
| qwerty12 | Meh, I'm not against packaging it myself but I can't even get it to compile straight up then it can piss off | 19:17 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, what changed in the new hildon-desktop? is it just a rebuild? | 19:17 |
| lardman|home | qwerty12: I did get all the deps built and working a while back, but it must have been one of the older scratchbox installs (which has since been rm -rf'd) | 19:17 |
| qwerty12 | heh :/ | 19:17 |
| lardman|home | I'll add it to my list of things to do, near the bottom | 19:17 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: i had composite on before and now not (the one in repo) | 19:18 |
| Stskeeps | and .. | 19:18 |
| Stskeeps | no, that was it | 19:18 |
| ciroip | yo people | 19:18 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: only other possibility i could see was to upgrade glib | 19:23 |
| * Stskeeps doesn't exactly understand why it's crashing :) | 19:27 | |
| * konttori likes how palm pre looks like: http://i.gizmodo.com/5126752/palm-pre-full-video-tours | 19:28 | |
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| konttori | browser looks really nice | 19:30 |
| Stskeeps | has to if it's a "WebOS" :P | 19:31 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, do you know the last build that worked? | 19:31 |
| johnx | konttori, played with the newer webkit builds on the n8x0? | 19:32 |
| doc|home | is canola broken? It's not seeing audio files for me when I set it up to do so | 19:32 |
| johnx | doc|home, do you have beta9 or beta10? | 19:33 |
| doc|home | johnx: erm, no idea, one sec | 19:33 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: mer10 | 19:33 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: https://code.launchpad.net/~mer-committers/m-r/hildon-desktop | 19:34 |
| doc|home | johnx: beta9 | 19:34 |
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| johnx | doc|home, ok good start :) | 19:34 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, yeah, have that working on my zaurus | 19:34 |
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| doc|home | johnx: any idea what else it might be? | 19:35 |
| johnx | doc|home, so you add the folder with your music in it, then click "update all", right? | 19:36 |
| doc|home | johnx: two media cards, yep | 19:37 |
| Meizirkki | Ubuntus UME-team seems to be going to port many maemo-things too https://wiki.ubuntu.com/MobileAndEmbedded/AppFramework | 19:40 |
| Stskeeps | Meizirkki: think its old though | 19:41 |
| Meizirkki | they haven't done much... | 19:41 |
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| * Jaffa was wondering about UME/Moblin's email client | 19:43 | |
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| johnx | weren't they going for hildonized claws or somesuch? | 19:44 |
| Stskeeps | i would go for hildonized claws. | 19:44 |
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| johnx | dunno how far they got though | 19:45 |
| konttori | So, are the new webkit versions much better then? | 19:45 |
| konttori | should I install the browser replacement or tear? | 19:45 |
| johnx | konttori, try both, but I think the browser replacement version takes up less space | 19:45 |
| Meizirkki | i prefer tear (using webkit-eal) | 19:47 |
| doc|home | anyone got any other suggestions for media players? I don't like kagu all that much | 19:47 |
| Meizirkki | mediabox? | 19:47 |
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| * doc|home looks | 19:47 | |
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| konttori | where are the latest packages? | 19:49 |
| konttori | here? http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24293 | 19:51 |
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| lardman|home | what version of GTK+ do we use? | 19:55 |
| Stskeeps | 2.12 i think | 19:55 |
| Stskeeps | or at least, fremantle does | 19:55 |
| lardman|home | hmm, I thought so | 19:55 |
| lardman|home | oh | 19:55 |
| Stskeeps | diablo is 2.1 | 19:55 |
| lardman|home | hmm, I'll have to look for a different call then (only added in 2.14) | 19:55 |
| Stskeeps | 2.10 | 19:55 |
| Meizirkki | konttori, yes | 19:56 |
| lardman|home | Stskeeps: thanks | 19:57 |
| Meizirkki | konttori: but bundyos webkit does not render correctly sometimes, so i have symlink from the "default browser webkit" libraries... | 19:57 |
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| lardman|home | do gtk dialogs come with a built-in vbox? | 20:01 |
| AstralStorm | no | 20:01 |
| lardman|home | ok, how does one add something to one may I ask? | 20:02 |
| lardman|home | the dialog that is | 20:02 |
| AstralStorm | a standard GtkWindow? | 20:02 |
| AstralStorm | or what do you want to add to? | 20:02 |
| lardman|home | gtk_dialog | 20:03 |
| lardman|home | I want to add some widgets to one | 20:03 |
| AstralStorm | let me check | 20:03 |
| lardman|home | I was just looking at this code here: http://cr.yp.to/2004-494/gaim/0.81-src/gtknotify.c | 20:03 |
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| wjt | Look at GtkDialog in devhelp | 20:03 |
| AstralStorm | http://www.pygtk.org/docs/pygtk/class-gtkdialog.html | 20:03 |
| wjt | the first member is a vbox | 20:03 |
| AstralStorm | it does have a vbox | 20:03 |
| wjt | vbox is a GtkVBox - the main part of the dialog box. | 20:04 |
| wjt | action_area is a GtkHButtonBox packed below the dividing GtkHSeparator in the dialog. It is treated exactly the same as any other GtkHButtonBox. | 20:04 |
| AstralStorm | I thought you meant something other | 20:04 |
| lardman|home | AstralStorm, wjt: thanks | 20:04 |
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| lardman|home | wjt: can I install an older version of the gtk+ devhelp files? | 20:05 |
| lardman|home | am on 2.12.9 atm, but could do with 2.10.x | 20:05 |
| wjt | You probably can, but new stuff should have Since: annotations so you can tell whether it'll exist in 2.10 | 20:05 |
| lardman|home | ah, ok, good plan | 20:05 |
| lardman|home | cheers | 20:05 |
| wjt | i think you could get a gtk 2.10 tarball, build the docs, and shove them into ~/.local/share... | 20:06 |
| wjt | but then you'd have two hits for every Gtk symbol when you search in devhelp and on that path lies madness | 20:06 |
| lardman|home | true :) | 20:06 |
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| johnx | slow drive is slow :/ | 20:19 |
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| AstralStorm | and fast drives are fast | 20:19 |
| AstralStorm | get a fast one | 20:19 |
| AstralStorm | or just a bunch of flash chips ;P | 20:19 |
| johnx | wife has a slow external 1.8" USB drive. need to get music off of it | 20:20 |
| johnx | in this case a faster drive now wouldn't help :P | 20:20 |
| AstralStorm | use a hammer | 20:21 |
| AstralStorm | that should be quicker | 20:21 |
| AstralStorm | :) | 20:21 |
| johnx | "hur. I got your music out of duh drive." | 20:21 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: i should technically be able to replicate this on x86 shouldn't i? | 20:22 |
| Stskeeps | i mean, we established it's not the toolchain | 20:22 |
| johnx | well, it's worth a quick build I would think if you have an x86 test system lying around | 20:23 |
| Stskeeps | mm, chroot + xvfb | 20:23 |
| johnx | did you ever try using hildon-desktop the way that diablo-sdk does? | 20:23 |
| Stskeeps | and i always build for x86 too :P | 20:23 |
| Stskeeps | interesting, it does crash | 20:26 |
| johnx | yay! | 20:27 |
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| Stskeeps | yup, same place, too | 20:27 |
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| Stskeeps | i knew it would be a benefit to compile for x86 sometime too ;) | 20:29 |
| Stskeeps | because now i can run valgrind! | 20:31 |
| AstralStorm | haha | 20:31 |
| AstralStorm | and see there are 1024+ errors? | 20:31 |
| johnx | or that all 4 of the test machines have bad RAM | 20:31 |
| AstralStorm | memtest86 should exclude that possibility | 20:31 |
| AstralStorm | and then, the crash wouldn't be reproducible so easily | 20:32 |
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| johnx | AstralStorm, I know, just figure it would be just about our luck :) | 20:33 |
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| ds3 | hmmm | 20:42 |
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| disq | got an autobuilder problem, i have multiple dirs under "src" and libtool won't work probably because of that (no such file or directory) | 20:44 |
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| * johnx sleeps | 20:56 | |
| Stskeeps | nini | 20:59 |
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| beachsurfin | why would maemo use gnome + qt and not qt+kde? | 21:12 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Maemo doesn't use gnome | 21:13 |
| Stskeeps | beachsurfin: you probably mean gtk + qt | 21:13 |
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| beachsurfin | oh | 21:20 |
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| beachsurfin | i saw the gnome icon so i figured.. | 21:20 |
| beachsurfin | "Maemo platform has been developed by Nokia in collaboration with many open source projects such as the Linux kernel, Debian, GNOME, and many more." | 21:21 |
| beachsurfin | i see, it was made sure that maemo would work fine with these project | 21:22 |
| beachsurfin | i suppose the kde connection is through qt | 21:23 |
| Stskeeps | which in turn is made by trolltech, which is owned by nokia ;) | 21:23 |
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| wazd | Stskeeps: so, should I change something in Mer's logo or it's fine now?) | 21:25 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: what was the last url? | 21:26 |
| Stskeeps | i've been a bit absent today :) preparing for exam | 21:26 |
| wazd | http://s45.radikal.ru/i108/0901/ad/7d0a5e67d3db.jpg | 21:26 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, it's cool :) | 21:27 |
| RST38h | moo all, again | 21:28 |
| Stskeeps | wazd: i don't suppose you have a 1600x1200 version of it too? | 21:29 |
| wazd | I have 1920x1200 instead | 21:30 |
| Stskeeps | just as good ;) | 21:30 |
| wazd | http://s47.radikal.ru/i115/0901/96/eccd58abaa45.jpg | 21:34 |
| Stskeeps | thanks! | 21:35 |
| wazd | ~poke GeneralAntilles | 21:35 |
| * infobot cuts down a small tree, sneaks up behind GeneralAntilles, pokes GeneralAntilles repeatedly, hilarity ensues. | 21:35 | |
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| `Mace | Stskeeps ? | 22:38 |
| `Mace | when i get the chance some time this week. i'm going to work on putting together a dedicated box for you | 22:38 |
| `Mace | instead of timeslicing it in esx ;) | 22:39 |
| `Mace | i'll keep them both going so you can move your stuff over when you get the chance.. but after that i'm going to wipe the VM | 22:39 |
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| Stskeeps | `Mace: already - don't spend too much time on it | 22:44 |
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| Shadow___X | hello everybody | 22:46 |
| Shadow___X | how do you access webhttrack | 22:47 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, if i got you the cleaned up version of liqbase what would you need to do to test it on your beagle? does it need recompilation and all that | 22:50 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: think i need to connect up my dvi screen really | 22:50 |
| Stskeeps | and get a proper OS on it | 22:50 |
| lcuk | ok, your work beagle | 22:50 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, my work beagle :P | 22:50 |
| Stskeeps | don't own one privately | 22:51 |
| lcuk | heh lol, what graphics are on it now? | 22:51 |
| Stskeeps | serial console.. | 22:51 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 22:51 |
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| lcuk | phew, thought you were gonna say something archaic like semaphore or something | 22:51 |
| Stskeeps | serial console is pretty far out, too ;) | 22:52 |
| lcuk | altair are gonna be worried your device will overtake them soon ;) | 22:52 |
| lcuk | all that power and no real way to show it | 22:52 |
| Stskeeps | hm | 22:55 |
| Stskeeps | that's funny.. | 22:55 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, does it have the outputs for dvi? | 22:57 |
| lcuk | or are they another solder job (or was that a one off out there thing for odd combinations) | 22:57 |
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| Stskeeps | it has hdmi | 22:58 |
| lcuk | whats with all the serial stuff then? i dont think my computer even has a standard serial any more | 22:59 |
| Stskeeps | cos you need to flash a kernel first, for instance :) | 22:59 |
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| TheFatal | can any1 tell me the others operating system for the N810 ?? | 23:06 |
| Stskeeps | gentoo, ubuntu, mer, nitdroid.. debian | 23:06 |
| RST38h | WinMobile... | 23:07 |
| RST38h | ;) | 23:07 |
| lcuk | winmobile? no way, i thought it had the full desktop windows 95 experience | 23:07 |
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| RST38h | Well, WinMobile has command.com! | 23:08 |
| TheFatal | but there is a wikipedia page who say all o.s. | 23:08 |
| TheFatal | can any1 know it ? | 23:08 |
| RST38h | Google? | 23:08 |
| * suihkulokki loaded command.com to the browser before going back to the memory lane | 23:09 | |
| TheFatal | i search, but i can not find it... ¬¬ | 23:09 |
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| Stskeeps | TheFatal: internettablettalk.com/forums | 23:11 |
| Stskeeps | plenty of posts on other things :P | 23:11 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: what has caused me and johnx horrors for two days: http://rafb.net/p/R8yLu842.html | 23:13 |
| Stskeeps | very very portable hack | 23:13 |
| Stskeeps | (it modifies a stub) | 23:13 |
| TheFatal | sed 's/dbus_g_proxy_begin_call/dbus_g_proxy_begin_call_with_timeout/' |\ sed 's/g_free, /g_free, 120000, /' \ > hildon-background-manager.h | 23:13 |
| TheFatal | xD | 23:13 |
| Stskeeps | and life just isn't that easy in dbus-glib 0.78 | 23:14 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, you and john have added that hack, or thats included and causing problems | 23:14 |
| lcuk | sed is shell search replace thingy isnt it | 23:15 |
| Stskeeps | others | 23:15 |
| Stskeeps | it should actually be _async_data_free instead | 23:15 |
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| * Stskeeps wonders if he should be bothered opening a bug for that | 23:17 | |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, ok, i see its in the makefile - so thats a late added (and probably much overlooked) very very strange way to fix source | 23:19 |
| Stskeeps | yes, normally you fix the stub tool | 23:19 |
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| Stskeeps | and now it starts joyfully | 23:22 |
| * RST38h has salvaged the sourcecode for his TI85 emulator | 23:24 | |
| RST38h | anyone interested? | 23:24 |
| Stskeeps | always | 23:24 |
| Stskeeps | i bought a TI83 plus recently.. and i have used it exactly once. | 23:25 |
| RST38h | TI85 is a different animal, it is Z80 based | 23:27 |
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| TheFatal | any1 test ubuntu mobile on n810 ? | 23:28 |
| Stskeeps | we have something better :P | 23:28 |
| TheFatal | xD | 23:28 |
| TheFatal | but only test it | 23:28 |
| lcuk | i want a minimal super OS On my big tablet | 23:29 |
| TheFatal | [quote] we have something better :P [/quote] xD maemo o debian ? | 23:29 |
| * Stskeeps passes lcuk mer | 23:29 | |
| * lcuk likes the idea of 39.8GB free ;) | 23:29 | |
| aquatix | RST38h: interesting | 23:29 |
| aquatix | lcuk: whuh? what did i miss? | 23:30 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, :) i know, i cant wait | 23:30 |
| aquatix | oh, your big tablet | 23:30 |
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| lcuk | well, i can | 23:30 |
| aquatix | i thought that was sarcasm | 23:30 |
| lcuk | yeah aquatix | 23:30 |
| aquatix | you have another tablet? heretic! | 23:30 |
| lcuk | my nokia found it daddy :) | 23:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe, the EIPI interview comments finally devolved into ad hominem. | 23:31 |
| RST38h | lcuk: do they.... like...you know? | 23:31 |
| lcuk | daddy stays at home wearing its slipper whilst the young nokia goes out into the big wide world :) | 23:31 |
| aquatix | GeneralAntilles: do they mention nazis yet? | 23:31 |
| lcuk | of course not, its father and son | 23:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | aquatix, not yet. | 23:31 |
| aquatix | lcuk: did he have The Talk with his son yet? | 23:31 |
| iskaja1 | any idea what i can usefull do with my old N770 | 23:32 |
| lcuk | yes, hes been told not to connect with any naked x86 devices | 23:32 |
| aquatix | lcuk: ah, good | 23:32 |
| aquatix | iskaja1: build it in a car? | 23:32 |
| lcuk | iskaja1, send it me so i can get liqbase running on it | 23:32 |
| aquatix | or that | 23:32 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: i think the 'napoleon dynamite' comparison is a whole new aspect to internet discussions | 23:32 |
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| lcuk | i would love to *know* whether it could work nicely | 23:33 |
| Stskeeps | iskaja1: plenty of things | 23:33 |
| iskaja1 | what shall it do in the car? | 23:33 |
| Stskeeps | iskaja1: nitdroid or mer is coming to it :P | 23:33 |
| Proteous | n770s should be locked away in a vault to ward of the WSOD | 23:34 |
| Proteous | s/of/off/ | 23:34 |
| infobot | Proteous meant: n770s should be locked away in a vault to ward off the WSOD | 23:34 |
| aquatix | Proteous: and the 770's? | 23:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | aquatix, but maybe if I show them my swastisocks it'll speed things along. http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/swastisocks.jpg :roll: | 23:35 |
| aquatix | GeneralAntilles: okayyy... | 23:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | aquatix, what, don't see the resemblance? :P | 23:36 |
| Stskeeps | windows logo in monochrome or a swastika, who knows | 23:37 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | (http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/swastisocks.jpg) | 23:37 |
| aquatix | GeneralAntilles: it's a bit disturbing :) | 23:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Their logo, apparently, turns into a swastika on irregular socks. | 23:37 |
| lcuk | :S | 23:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which is probably why I got 6 pairs for $2.99. | 23:37 |
| RST38h | General: How cute! | 23:37 |
| aquatix | GeneralAntilles: `their' logo? | 23:38 |
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| GeneralAntilles | http://www.columbia.com/ | 23:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Meant to paste that in the parentheses. | 23:38 |
| aquatix | ah | 23:39 |
| aquatix | teehee | 23:39 |
| RST38h | General: You should brandish weaponry as well, just the socks won't do the job | 23:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, I've got a K98 fairly close at hand, but that might be a little over the top. ;) | 23:40 |
| RST38h | just the right thing | 23:40 |
| lcuk | context would be better before posting in future gan ;) | 23:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, do they not sell Columbia in the EU? | 23:41 |
| RST38h | They do, but now, when you revealed the terrible truth, .DE is risking to have Columbia stuff outlawed | 23:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 23:42 |
| lcuk | wouldnt know, socks are socks | 23:42 |
| lcuk | ill ask my mum if she knows (cos she still buys my socks) *joking :|* | 23:42 |
| lcuk | why does the new google favicon remind me of office 97 | 23:43 |
| *** Shadow___X has joined #maemo | 23:44 | |
| Shadow___X | hello everyone i am having issues setting up or trying to remove portmap | 23:44 |
| Shadow___X | it keeps referring to 2 files | 23:45 |
| Shadow___X | /etc/rcS.d/S43portmap | 23:45 |
| Shadow___X | and S18portmap | 23:45 |
| pcfe | does anybody know where xchat on maemo looks for SSl certs? (I use an IRC proxy over SSL that has it's own cert signed by my own CA, so I want to import that CA cert so that xchat finds it, the system wide cert import does not seem to be used by xchat) | 23:46 |
| wazd | General: when would tuesday web-site meeting be?) | 23:46 |
| Stskeeps | think xchat may have its own settings for this, but i seem to recall xchat is .. interesting, in that aspect | 23:46 |
| *** StsN800 has joined #maemo | 23:47 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | pcfe, I would assume in the same place it looks for them on a computer | 23:47 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Maemo version does nothing special regarding certs | 23:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | I like how nobody can get away from Nokia in that community cohesion thread. | 23:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N800, you ruined it. :P | 23:48 |
| Shadow___X | anyone of how to fix portmap | 23:48 |
| Shadow___X | ? | 23:48 |
| qwerty12_N800 | GeneralAntilles, i apologised *nervous laugh* | 23:48 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: yet there are coming good points up on how to actually do a community | 23:49 |
| pcfe | qwerty12_N800: OK, if it does notihing maemo specific then I'll just cat my CA cert to the end of /etc/pki/tls/certs/c | 23:49 |
| lcuk | the problem with the cohesion is that (a) nokia have said we will have fremantle. Not that we will take part in its building, that they are doing it and it will be released | 23:49 |
| Stskeeps | it's difficult to contribute "to maemo" as maemo is 1000 different projects :P | 23:49 |
| lcuk | i would love to get liqbase into a stable enough state to start offering little modules to interested parties | 23:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, the discussion isn't about Nokia or any Nokia projects. | 23:50 |
| lcuk | no, its about what we do whilst nokia works on their fremantle masterpiece | 23:50 |
| Stskeeps | what does 'cohesion' mean anyway? | 23:50 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:50 |
| lcuk | lets make the thread sticky | 23:50 |
| RST38h | it is about abandoning the developers community with Diablo and telling that Nokia does not really care about diablo any more | 23:51 |
| Stskeeps | i don't really blame them, though | 23:51 |
| RST38h | And the stuff Nokia cares about is outside of developers reach for now | 23:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, Fremantle alphas will be here soon. | 23:51 |
| lcuk | but whats replaced it | 23:51 |
| RST38h | No, they have a business strategy and that strategy is to sell more devices, newer devices | 23:51 |
| lcuk | yes, and so will liqbase alphas | 23:51 |
| RST38h | Unfortunately, outside development does not yet align with this strategy | 23:52 |
| lcuk | ill have a core widget that will run nice and touchably on this and next device, ill need to build apps just like nokia | 23:52 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: And they know that a vibrant development community is part of that | 23:52 |
| lcuk | but the one thing im doing is here in the community | 23:52 |
| Jaffa | RXsT38h: It does. Supporting devices with orders of magnitude less power doesn't align with releasing the best h/w and s/w they can | 23:53 |
| *** Omegamoon has left #maemo | 23:53 | |
| Jaffa | s/RXst38h/RST38h | 23:53 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: Right now it does not, as evidenced by us all stuck with Diablo | 23:53 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: If it did, Nokia would invest into maintaining some interest in Diablo until Fremantle is ready and maybe even releasing backported feature updates | 23:54 |
| Stskeeps | if nokia gets off their asses with some things, soon we are able to make our own images, both diablo and mer :P | 23:54 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: This is what Microsoft is doing BTW | 23:54 |
| Stskeeps | they haven't actually removed the stuff to support old HW, in source, honestly | 23:55 |
| Stskeeps | mostly it's about replacing some packages | 23:55 |
| lcuk | no, but if the UI is being built with clutter you can be damned sure it wont be used | 23:56 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: window manager, hildon-desktop, and such, yes, but apps are still hildon | 23:56 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:56 |
| Stskeeps | and we -have- a fremantle diablo ui hildon-desktop | 23:56 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:56 |
| lcuk | so it will flicker backwards and forwards between old style and new? | 23:56 |
| RST38h | I hope the original hildon desktop will still be around :) | 23:56 |
| Stskeeps | theming | 23:56 |
| lcuk | screen flicker - opengl context vs x11 standard | 23:57 |
| Shadow___X | dpkg --configure -a does not fix the portmap issue | 23:57 |
| lcuk | clutter can exist within a widget - i believe offscreen GTK rendering and shoving to an ogl surface isnt optimal | 23:57 |
| wazd | Sorry to interupt you, but when the web-site meeting would be?) I'd like to participate :) | 23:58 |
| Jaffa | wazd: 1400 UTC tomorrow, IIRC | 23:58 |
| wazd | Jaffa: thanks a lot ) | 23:58 |
| lcuk | of course, if nokia dont use clutter and stick with gtk for now (as yerga shows is possible with the touchable gtk widgets) that will be different again | 23:59 |
| *** melmoth has quit IRC | 23:59 | |
| lcuk | less interuption to existing apps and fits with an evolution rather than a revolution | 23:59 |
| * Jaffa would check, but webkit-eal's crashed replying to the "fun" EIPI blog post, trying to point out the nature of a representative democracy | 23:59 | |
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