IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2009-01-02

*** crashanddie has quit IRC00:00
Shadow_Mwoglinde 5.2008.43-7 thats what i am running00:02
woglindehm thats the latest00:02
Shadow_Myeah the seg faults happened maybe a day or two ago last time i used it it was running fine00:02
*** Stslaptop has quit IRC00:03
woglindeShadow_M I would suggest file a bugreport if there is nt already one00:04
*** TrueJournals has joined #maemo00:04
* pupnik thinks more female programmers are in order00:05
woglindepupnik where?00:05
pupnikon earth.  for linux.00:05
*** Sakkath has left #maemo00:05
Shadow_Mhmm is there a way to reset the file it reads from i have no problem losing my rss feeds if i can use the reader00:06
*** alex-weej has quit IRC00:06
*** alex-weej has joined #maemo00:10
*** SHADOW__X has joined #maemo00:12
*** Shadow_M has quit IRC00:12
*** SHADOW__X has quit IRC00:13
*** chandoo has joined #maemo00:13
*** SHADOW__X has joined #maemo00:14
*** guardian has joined #maemo00:19
*** flavioribeiro has joined #maemo00:21
*** fnordianslip has joined #maemo00:23
*** fnordianslip has quit IRC00:25
RST38hpupnik: Will you accept life partners from other professional groups? =)00:25
woglinderst *g*00:25
SHADOW__Xwoglinde: have you had your rss reader seg fault00:26
woglindeshadow I do not use it00:26
SHADOW__Xoh ok00:26
*** qwerty12_N800 has quit IRC00:28
*** qwerty12_N800 has joined #mAeMo00:29
andre___SHADOW__X, you could blow the content of /home/user/.osso_rss_feed_reader/00:30
andre___but before get me a nice coredump please and file a bug :)00:30
andre___install the "sp-rich-core" package from the tools repository (see ) and create a "core-dumps" directory to the memory card with at least few megabytes of free space.00:31
pupnikRST38h: maybe.  but it helps if she likes Baldurs' Gate00:31
*** benh has quit IRC00:33
RST38hpupnik: This SELECT ... WHERE will return an empty set.00:34
woglinderst *g*00:35
GAN8001andre___, I dunno how you use canned answers.00:38
VulcanisSHADOW__X: What feeds were you subscribed to?00:38
GAN8001They just don't work for me.00:38
andre___GAN8001, haha. why don't the work for you?00:38
SHADOW__Xlifehacker digg slashdot00:38
SHADOW__Xi believe thats all of them00:38
GAN8001andre___, dunno. I guess I prefer the "personal" touch. :P00:38
andre___funny guy. as if i was human and not a bot!00:39
SHADOW__XVulcanis: lifehacker digg slashdot00:39
SHADOW__Xthats about it00:39
*** b-man has joined #maemo00:41
GAN8001andre___, mostly, though, they're not snarky enough. :D00:41
andre___haha, ok :)00:42
b-manIt looks like Ubuntu jaunty booted without eny errors! :D00:42
b-manit doesn't start gdm and puts me in a login00:42
VulcanisSHADOW__X: Do any of them embed flash? I forget if LH does00:42
Vulcanisbecause I know that has caused problems with my other RSS readers00:42
SHADOW__Xhmm i dont think  so the only last thing i remember changing was not enabling  images00:43
SHADOW__Xi had been using all of tose for awhile00:44
SHADOW__Xthough and it was wroking fine00:44
b-mandoes enyone know how to fix the gdm problem?, i'm using xserver-xorg and the gdm config file is /etc/gdm/gdm.cong-costom.00:44
*** ccooke has quit IRC00:45
b-manedit gdm.conf-costom :p00:46
*** ccooke has joined #maemo00:46
*** Meiz_n810 has joined #maemo00:50
GAN8001andre___, what's our next blocker for #630?00:52
SHADOW__Xi fixed my own problem00:54
SHADOW__Xi believe it was the feeds00:54
SHADOW__Xthey must of tried to update on a flaky connection00:54
SHADOW__Xremoved only the  cache from within the osso-feed-reader dir and blam it fired right up00:55
*** TrueJournals has quit IRC00:55
*** ignacius has quit IRC01:01
* pupnik feels hungry01:01
lcukqwerty12_N800, any idea of the actual API required to lookup icons01:01
woglindedrive to burger king01:02
lcukwoglinde, yeah i could do, but how do i get icons from there?01:02
woglindeI meant pupnik01:02
lcukwhy would i get a pupnik from burger king? *g*01:02
qwerty12_N800lcuk, no, sorry. Icons are usually in /usr/share/pixmaps or /usr/share/icons/hicolor01:03
lcukhave you *seen* whats in hicolor01:03
lcukits like a twisty maze with many different sized exists01:04
qwerty12_N800limit it to 64x64 and scalable then, icons tend to be in the apps or hildon sub dirs. you should know the file name by looking at the icon= tag01:05
*** benh has joined #maemo01:05
*** jagernot has joined #maemo01:06
lcuki am already scanning scalable, 64, 40, 32, 2401:06
lcukin descending order to try to use the largest one i can01:06
olihi. can i forward audio from windows PC to my n800?01:07
*** qwerty12_N800 is now known as qwerty12_N800_01:08
oliex. I am using winamp via rdesktop and i want to listen to the music from n800 speakers01:08
alteregoIf winamp can stream, sure.01:09
oliI mean also listening to other sources, which rather cannot stream01:10
alteregoYes, if Winamp can stream, then sure.01:11
mavhcthere's probably an output plugin for winamp01:12
olii can just use shoutcast plugin...01:12
olibut what if I want to listen to my friends talking on ventrilo (voip app)01:12
alteregoshoutcast plugin would do it.01:12
pupnik<@PlagueRat> Whereas Detroit is developing a car that runs completely on taxpayer money01:13
alteregoYes, what if.01:13
*** AI6PG has joined #maemo01:13
oliis there any daemon which can stream out all the system outbound audio?01:14
*** Aikoaiko has quit IRC01:14
GAN8001pupnik, I like how they're giving money to reduce the credit requirements for buying a car. <_<01:16
alteregoIs that to help fuel the car economy?01:16
GAN8001alterego, something like that.01:16
mavhcthe solution to borrowing too much is to borrow more01:16
mavhcthe government should probably join gamblers anonymous01:17
woglindemavhc hehe yes01:17
mavhc"but I can win it all back with one more go!"01:17
woglindeand if you the boss01:17
woglindeyou cant loose01:17
*** juergbi has quit IRC01:20
*** pvanhoof has joined #maemo01:23
*** TrueJournals has joined #maemo01:24
*** simon__ has quit IRC01:25
*** alterego has quit IRC01:36
*** housetier has joined #maemo01:37
*** hellwolf has quit IRC01:42
*** lool- has joined #maemo01:43
*** chandoo has quit IRC01:45
*** lool has quit IRC01:46
*** lool- is now known as lool01:46
*** hellwolf-n810 has joined #maemo01:50
*** denny has joined #maemo01:50
pupnik(Asia) Silver: Bid: 11.37 Ask: 11.47 Change: +0.05 (+0.44%)  Gold: Bid: 886.80 Ask: 889.80 Change: +6.00 (+0.68%) Platinum: Bid: 929.00 Ask: 939.00  Change: +1.00 (+0.11%) Palladium: Bid: 187.00 Ask: 193.00 Change: +2.00 (+1.08%) (updated: Jan 01 @ 18:42.53 ET)01:55
tank-mancan't even paste properly, how do you expect to make money on stocks :)01:58
mavhcyou accidentally bought stock!01:59
*** alterego has joined #maemo02:01
*** Grackle has joined #maemo02:02
*** Navimaster has joined #Maemo02:06
NavimasterHey guys02:06
NavimasterI got a quick question02:06
* lcuk starts the clock02:06
NavimasterI want to update my nokia02:06
Navimasterusing the nokia update software02:06
NavimasterCan I leave the adapter plugged in while its updating?02:06
Navimastercause i dont think it has enough battery power02:07
Navimasteralright thanks02:07
lcukinstructions are clear : have a fully charged up battery and disconnect the charger02:07
NavimasterI know thats why my question02:07
Navimastercan i or not?02:07
lcukthis is the internet - dont believe anything without checking : my answer is veryfiable with the documentation02:07
tank-manif unpluging it can damage it, i would be very disappointed in nokia02:08
NavimasterI just wanna know if I can have the adapter plugged in while its flashing/updating02:08
tank-manwhat made you ask this question?02:09
SHADOW__Xhow much battery life do you have now02:09
NavimasterI was downloading and02:09
Navimaster(diablo update)02:09
SHADOW__Xi say do it whats the worst that can happen you brick it02:10
Navimasterand the screen turned to black and it didnt update02:10
Navimaster so I'm thinking no more battery life02:10
Navimasterso I thought, maybe i should plug the adapter02:10
SHADOW__Xor you need to reslash02:10
SHADOW__Xplug it in and wait to see if the charging screen comes up02:10
*** aloisiojr has quit IRC02:10
SHADOW__Xand go from there02:10
tank-manso what you are saying is you have gone thru 1 failed update attempt?02:10
Navimasteryes and possibly because the battery life went to 0 or something02:11
Navimasterso I'm wondering if I can just plug the adapter and update02:11
Navimasterbut the instructions make it difficult02:11
Navimastercause it says to disconnect it02:11
tank-manis that the part where you have to turn it off?02:12
NavimasterIt was downloading from the Nokia Software Updater02:12
Navimasterfrom my PC to nokia (usb connection)02:12
*** aloisiojr has joined #maemo02:12
Navimasterit was going to be done but the screen on my nokia turned off (battery probably)02:12
Navimasterand it interrupted the process02:12
lcukthen you hadnt followed instructions the first time ?02:13
NavimasterI did but my connection disconnected like 35131 times02:13
lcuk3. Make sure the battery of your tablet is fully charged.02:13
Navimasterso I had to redo it02:13
*** ccooke has quit IRC02:13
Navimasterbut my question is if I can use the charger or not02:13
*** b-man has quit IRC02:14
tank-maneasy answer is follow the instructions :)02:14
NavimasterI was going to anyway, just making sure.02:15
*** ccooke has joined #maemo02:15
GAN800Running out of battery power during an update or connecting/disconnecting a connected charger during an update CAN RESULT IN AN UNRECOVERABLE TABLET.02:15
Navimasterwell I'm recharging my tablet02:17
Navimasterso it can be full for when i redo the update02:17
*** Navimaster has quit IRC02:20
*** zap_ is now known as zap02:20
*** housetier has quit IRC02:33
*** housetier has joined #maemo02:43
*** AI6PG has quit IRC02:47
*** denny has quit IRC02:58
*** gentooer has joined #maemo03:03
*** chandoo has joined #maemo03:04
*** gopi has joined #maemo03:06
*** woglinde has quit IRC03:06
*** TrueJournals has quit IRC03:22
*** florian has quit IRC03:27
*** tulkastaldo has joined #maemo03:32
*** zap has quit IRC03:37
*** qwerty12_N800_ has quit IRC03:40
*** housetier has quit IRC03:41
*** flavioribeiro has quit IRC03:42
*** housetier has joined #maemo03:49
*** eichi_ has quit IRC03:51
*** TrueJournals has joined #maemo04:00
*** dforsyth_ has joined #maemo04:05
*** Kurtis318 has joined #maemo04:10
Kurtis318has anyone been able to get google chat working with the default brows?04:13
Kurtis318oops, default browser04:14
johnxthe default browser? I just use the default chat client...04:14
Kurtis318can you use it to send sms msgs?04:15
johnxaah, good point04:15
johnxI think there's a trick04:15
johnxthank you TrueJournals :D04:16
johnxthat's the trick04:16
TrueJournalsNo problem04:16
lcukthats US only isnt it04:16
lcukcos you guys pay to recv?04:16
TrueJournalslcuk: Depends on the cell plan you have04:16
TrueJournalsText messages are RIDICULOUSLY expensive04:16
lcukover here we pay to send, the person gettin it has it for free04:16
Kurtis318great news, will give it a try04:17
johnxlcuk, yes. like any sane system should be04:18
lcukwell, for the qty of actual data its still insane04:19
johnxI do wonder what happens if you prefix the phone number there with an international dialing code :)04:19
TrueJournalsVery interesting article on the subject of expensive text messages:
johnxif there was real competition between cell phone providers it would probably be free04:19
lcukwell thats what your contract makes it really, they *do* have to pay employees and buy stock and stuff04:20
GAN800lcuk, it's free for them, as it's sent on a sideband anyway04:20
*** dforsyth has quit IRC04:20
lcukhowever, on general principle i will say: a pair price for a fair service04:21
Kurtis318i have 2 19 year old girls that average about 10,000 texts per month. we have unlimited texting04:21
johnxlcuk, I mean if there was real competition they'd be charging for the things that cost money and figuring out how to give out any value adds they could afford04:21
johnxKurtis318, O_o I don't even think my younger sister hits much over 1,00004:22
lcukof course johnx, but most users until recently never used that many texts04:22
GAN800Kurtis318, they must text 24/704:23
lcukjohnx, im over phonewire :: think gossiping girls04:23
lcuk10k is probably normal04:23
lcukthink how many irc lines you push out in a month04:23
lcukdepending on the crowd and handsets its very easy04:23
johnxlcuk, I dunno about in the UK, but in the US the price of text messages got doubled from 10c to 20c recently...all across the board04:23
lcukand with full qwerty and computerlike experience04:23
johnxhighly doubt they have qwerty phones04:24
GAN800My sister pushes only about 1200 a month and is pretty much texting all the time04:24
johnxthose are for geeks like us04:24
GAN800iPhone isn't much faster than T904:24
TrueJournalsI'd just like to throw in that my sister who is by all means NOT a geek has a phone with a qwerty keyboard04:24
lcuktj, its getting more normal now04:24
*** cjdavis1 has quit IRC04:25
GAN800LG has a new qwerty handset that everybody seems to have purchased04:25
GAN800As does Samsung, actually04:25
johnxah, I'm missing western trends these days. update me from early 2007 :)04:25
*** cjdavis has joined #maemo04:25
*** cjdavis has left #maemo04:25
lcuki thought you would be ahead of the trend04:25
pupnikopenjazz engine (to play Jazz Jackrabbit) should be an easy port to ITOS04:25
GAN800Maemo. :P04:26
lcuki think thats the first time ive suggeste3d it like that :P04:26
GAN8003d? Freudian slip? ;)04:27
johnxlcuk, I don't think that this is the "real" future here, just a possible future. It's all numeric phones with a certain contingent of iphone users04:27
Kurtis318i am waiting for sprint to figure out how much money they are loosing on unlimited text service04:27
lcukas gan said, its a sidechannel to voice04:27
GAN800It doesn't cost them anything to sent texts04:27
TrueJournalsYeah, text messages really don't cost carriers anything04:27
infobotGAN800 meant: It doesn't cost them anything to send texts04:27
lcukyou are paying them a fixed monthly fee and their usage is no way able to overload anything04:28
Proteouswell, when you are talking about millions of texts in a dense populated area it can start to clog up the control channel04:28
TrueJournals" But text messages are not just tiny; they are also free riders, tucked into what’s called a control channel, space reserved for operation of the wireless network. ...  The channel uses space whether or not a text message is inserted."04:28
lcukits not quite the same as broadband overuse04:28
Proteousthe control channel also has to take care of initiating and ending calls04:29
johnxProteous, has that ever become a problem in the real world?04:29
Proteousso when it gets laggy things can start to freak out04:29
Proteousjohnx, have you ever tried to place a call and had it just fail?04:29
lcukProteous, sending a text from one phone cannot jam the lines, but just like now - london midnight new years, the phone system cannot cope with billions of texts from billions of users all at the same time04:29
Proteousthat's what happens04:29
lcuk(reduce by factors as required)04:29
ProteousI'm not saying that the phone companies are right in charging ludacris ammounts :P04:30
Proteousjust saying that there is a limit04:30
johnxinteresting. We have really small "cells" here so I guess it's not as big a problem04:30
GAN800Proteous, a few times when I had almost no signal. :P04:30
Proteousyeah, it depends a lot on that too04:30
Proteousin my town ATT doesn't have very many cells04:30
GAN800Stupid plaster and lead paint house.04:30
johnxwith big cells it would be a nightmare here O_o04:31
Proteouschicken wire is the worst04:31
Proteousthe stuff they put down under stucko04:31
johnxGAN800, lulz. think mine's a steal frame :P04:31
lcukProteous, but still, you are one user, your fingers cannot physically type fast enough to jam up the lines of an entire phone company04:31
GAN800lcuk, don't tempt him. :D04:31
Proteousadd in a teathered n810 and anything is possible!! MUHAHAHAHAA04:32
lcukno cos then you are on a different channel04:32
ProteousI can autosend texts from my phone with my n810 through bluetooth04:32
johnxor send them programatically :)04:33
lcukgo for it, remember there is only as much bandwidth in the cell packet as would normally go04:33
Proteousdon't worry, I'm not going to do it04:33
lcukit wont send bigger packets04:33
Proteouslcuk, no one is saying that one person alone could take down the system with just texts messages04:34
johnxone person, many phones04:34
Proteouswell, unless those are exploit texts and you have a vunerable s60 phone04:34
TrueJournalsActually... I'm curious about the whole "not being able to make a call" argument...04:34
lcukmany contracts04:34
lcukmuch money, im sure the phone company will be happy04:34
johnxTrueJournals, no space on the control channel, no way to make a call initiation request04:35
lcukthat sounds like the voice of experience04:35
TrueJournalsThe NY Times article says " The channel uses space whether or not a text message is inserted." which makes it sound like there's extra space on the channel for a text message whether or not one is there04:35
lcukjohnx, have you got any grass in your backgarden?04:35
johnxlcuk, ahahaha04:35
johnxTrueJournals, but text messages and call initiation requests share that space04:36
ProteousRF engineer blog about the issue04:36
TrueJournalsYeah, that makes it sound more like a text message would TAKE UP the control channel04:37
johnxlcuk, I live in an apartment building the size of a normal two story house. it has 6 apartments. the "back garden" is a cement walkway :)04:38
TrueJournalsThe NY Times article (to me) seems to more imply that they can share the channel04:38
TrueJournals(at the same time)04:38
johnxright, and the RF blog is addressing the NYT article :)04:38
TrueJournalsRegardless...  20 cents is NOT the price one should pay for that :-P04:38
johnx100% agreed04:39
TrueJournalsI understand charging for texts, but... 5 cents is reasonable... 20 cents is not04:39
johnxif there was competition it would probably be free, and they'd just make up the cost somewhere else04:39
lcukjohnx, you got the idea at least ;) btw, have you still got your whistle04:40
*** housetier has quit IRC04:40
lcukyeah, 2600 hz one04:41
johnxah. heh :P04:42
johnxeven the payphones here are ISDN :D04:42
* johnx whistles down the ethernet line04:42
lcukdoes explain why its in
*** dforsyth_ has quit IRC04:42
*** dforsyth has joined #maemo04:42
lcukwow, that site is cool04:43
Kurtis318another question, can you tell i'm new, i try to play avi movies some work, some don't. can someone explain why?04:46
johnxAVI is a container. the video inside can be encoded in many ways.04:46
Kurtis318or how i can conver,them04:46
johnxwhat kind of desktop computer are you on? PC, Mac, Linux?04:47
johnxguess I should have just linked that to begin with :)04:47
johnxtablet-encode is very nice.04:47
johnxand mplayer is recommended as well04:49
Kurtis318johnx, thanks. looking at wiki now04:51
lcukanyone know how i send an x11 window to the back?04:59
*** Kurtis318 has left #maemo04:59
johnxcan't help you directly, but if you google, search for "raise" and "lower" not "back" and "front"05:01
lcuki just did - i found the inverse in code and followed via there, thanks tho :)05:02
TrueJournalsHooray for words!05:03
TrueJournalsHow about we make a programming language where you can use keywords, and synonyms for the keywords? :-P05:04
TrueJournalsForget function -- "bunch_of_commands"05:04
johnxok, that would be awesome. it should have some exact synonyms and some functions that do kind of the same thing05:06
johnxand should be interpreted slightly differently on regionally different interpreters05:06
TrueJournalsOK... you get to work on that... let me know when it's done :-P05:07
johnxI call it "spoken and written human language"05:07
*** sin18 has joined #maemo05:09
johnxhuh...I wonder if anyone had an n8x0 crash on the leap second05:10
*** jacques has quit IRC05:19
TrueJournalsCan the NITdroid kernel boot into maemo?05:19
*** jagernot has quit IRC05:21
johnxI would bet against it05:22
johnxwhat I think people are working on is using kexec to just run Nokia's kernel05:23
TrueJournalsBah, I don't want to deal with that :-P05:24
*** lpotter_ has joined #maemo05:25
TrueJournalsWell, talk to you guys later.. bye05:26
*** TrueJournals has quit IRC05:26
*** pcfe has joined #maemo05:26
*** lpotter has quit IRC05:28
*** b-man has joined #maemo05:33
*** pcfe` has quit IRC05:34
*** alex-weej has quit IRC05:34
*** herzi has joined #maemo05:48
*** herz1 has quit IRC05:49
*** lcuk has quit IRC05:58
*** lcuk has joined #maemo05:58
*** Toba has joined #maemo05:58
TobaI'm going nuts05:58
* alterego is nutz05:58
TobaI compiled the arm-hello script in the scratchbox howto05:58
Tobaand I got it onto my n810 and when I do ./arm-hello it says '-sh: ./arm-hello: not found'05:59
Tobait's chmod +x and it even auto-completes the filename for me05:59
*** lpotter_ has quit IRC05:59
alteregosounds like you compiled it with the wrong toolchain.05:59
lcuk*script* is your shebang thing right06:01
Tobait's a c program, man06:01
*** Ivan_Chelubeev has joined #maemo06:02
*** Ivan_Chelubeev has left #maemo06:03
Tobaalterego: is this wrong?06:03
Tobathe exact compiler that the tutorial says to use isn't there, as I used the deb repositories06:03
lcuksince all the path to gcc is normally not required i would say you went wrong somewhere by specifying one on the console06:04
lcukeither you are not inside a scratchbox user, or the toolchain is not setup correctly06:04
alteregoGod, it's 4am ..06:04
lcuk404 actually06:05
*** lcuk has quit IRC06:05
alterego4:05 :P06:05
*** lcuk has joined #maemo06:05
alteregoI should definitely go to bed soon ..06:07
Tobais this completely wrong? it's pretty frustrating trying to make scratchbox actually work06:08 isn't even *there*06:08
lcukive only been through it once to have a glance at m506:08
lcuki do all dev directly on the tablet06:09
alteregoToba: you could download the vmware appliance.06:09
lcukalterego, did you see the app launcher idea06:09
Tobamy vmware license shot itself06:09
lcukfree player06:09
lcuki've followed some of the thoughts from the maemo ui improvement blog and am bringing them into liqbase type thinking :)06:10
alteregoAwesome :)06:10
Tobalcuk: ahhhhh my eyes burn06:11
alteregoYou run the maemo ui improv. blog?06:11
johnxToba, another vote for try just 'gcc' without the path. that error you got on the tablet is usually from trying to run an ELF executable that's not quite the right arch06:11
lcukno, a guy called Andrew Zhilin (wazd)06:11
Tobaon the maemo?06:11
alteregoAh, yes. I didn't think it was you :P06:12
TobaNokia-N810-51-3-Arkenstone:~# gcc hello.c06:12
Tobahello.c:1:20: stdio.h: No such file or directory06:12
lcuktoba, too much information for you? if you have seen liqbase you will see the grid and elements are resizable and you can set comfortable resolution :)06:12
lcukon the graffitiwall06:12
Tobaoh, lcuk I see.06:12
*** _acyd_ has joined #maemo06:12
TobaI don't have more than another 24megs free on / on my n81006:12
lcukits all been completely fluid and dynamic up to this point06:12
Tobaso I can't really install more things easily06:13
Tobawithout worrying about running out.06:13
johnx24M is plenty :)06:13
alteregoNot if he's installing build-essential it's not :P06:13
Tobaall I am really trying to do is compile this:
TobaI want to open pdf files from a shell script06:13
Tobain osso_pdfviewer06:14
lcukwhat are you guys smoking, i do full dev with lots of -dev libraries installed and still have room for other apps (sometimes :$)06:14
* alterego shudders.06:14
alteregoI don't know where I'd be without my scratchbox :P06:14
johnxToba, why are you trying to compile outside of scratchbox?06:14
Tobabecause scratchbox doesn't want to work for me06:14
lcukmy mind shudders at the recursion, i prefer things simple06:15
Tobai'm installing vmware-player on my desktop as was suggested06:15
johnxlcuk, sometimes in order for things to be simple, they have to be really complex :)06:15
alteregoYou could do it using dbus-send Toba06:15 easy would it be?06:15
alteregoFairly easy.06:16
johnxactually, here's a better idea: want me to just compile that for you Toba?06:16
alteregoI'm not sure that's a better idea johnx :P06:16
Tobai'm not either06:16
Tobai may have to patch it06:16
Tobaand whatever software i develop, i need to be able to compile it myself06:16
lcukjohnx, imagine 12 months down the line being able to have users simply open a quick simple light ide from ANY computer, be it windows mac linux or whatever and just build stuff06:16
lcukdevelopers ^06:17
alterego12 months?06:17
alteregoWhat's happening in 12 months?06:17
sin18has anyone triple booted the system (flash, SD card boot, nitroid); my tablet (n800/diablo) is currently set to boot from SD and am wondering if installing nitroid (3rd partition on sd card) will mess it up :)06:17
johnxlcuk, sure. we'll just use virtualization. in 12 months computers will be fast enough.06:17
lcukheh just a random "in the future"06:17
alteregoI already use virtualization. My computer goes like greased weazel shit.06:18
lcukbut a virtual tablet isnt the same06:18
alteregosbrsh :P06:18
lcuksshfs a touch interface?06:18
johnxToba, fair enough. I think the right answer is getting scratchbox installed then, rather than trying to build without it. We're willing to help you troubleshoot if you'd like.06:18
alteregoYou don't _have_ to use scratchbox to test your programs :P06:18
b-manlcuk; if you have a umpc or tablet computer06:19
johnxlcuk, sshfs is everything that smb isn't06:19
lcukbut by the time you've opened an ssh channel, sent the file, executed it it finished building and ran natively06:19
lcukb-man, got one, compile natively for x86 there06:19
lcukstill sat at my windows computer though06:20
lcukwindows desktop ide beats anything linuxy ive tried so far, xp is nice for mouse06:21
johnxwhy would you want to use a mouse?06:21
alteregoErm, sshfs means the files are accessible on the tablet as soon as they're compiled.06:21
lcukbut im getting used to having nice linux machines06:21
* johnx stares warily at his mouse06:21
b-mani wonder how windows 7 will be like...06:21
lcukjohnx, gorilla arm06:21
alteregoAll you need to use ssh for is executing the program ..06:21
alteregoAnd there's sbrsh :P06:21
Tobaok I have06:21
alteregoThough I've not actually used that yet.06:21
lcuka mouse driven ui wastes about 90% of the space when used with a pen06:21
Tobahow can I use this with dbus-send to talk to the program?06:21
lcukand you end up having to be so precise its unrealy06:22
lcukanyway, 2 bed with me06:22
johnx'night lcuk06:22
b-mansee ya!06:22
Tobato be honest I prefer dcop06:23
Tobato dbus06:23
Tobait doesn't hurt my head06:23
johnxyeah, dbus can be a little bit scary at times06:23
b-mancan any one help me with this; i just installed ubuntu on my N800 but even though it booted with allmost no errors, gdm refuses to launch.06:25
b-mani'm using xserver-xorg.06:26
b-manwith omap drivers.06:26
johnxcan you run X manually?06:26
TobaI feel like a jerk now06:27
TobaI just realized that I can just install a different pdf viewer06:27
b-mani could, but i dont have a keyboard to type anything in the console.06:27
Tobainstead of killing myself to talk to the built in one06:27
* Toba hangs head in shame.06:27
johnxToba, no worries. :)06:27
johnxb-man, well, that would make things difficult. maybe ssh in?06:28
Tobaapt-get install evince06:28
Tobathat is all I needed06:28
Tobathanks for your help, guys.06:28
b-mani don't know how to use ssh. :P06:28
b-mansad, isn't it...06:28
johnxb-man, do you have wireless setup in ubuntu on your tablet?06:29
johnxalternatively, can you plug your tablet in via usb to your desktop? if so you can use the "emergency telnet daemon"06:30
*** acydlord has quit IRC06:30
b-mancould i chroot in?, i don't have a working linux computer atm...06:30
johnxah, yeah. but you can't test X while chrooted06:31
b-manis it possible to ssh in locally on my tablet?06:32
johnxsure, but I don't see how that helps. it's the same as being in an x terminal06:32
*** _acyd_ is now known as acydlord06:34
b-mani think i do have a fuew logs from the xserver, also i've noticed that xserver-xorg keeps falling back on "xorg.conf.failsafe - that might be the sorce of the issue.06:35
johnxprobably means it's crashing06:35
b-mancould i send you the logs va e-mail?06:36
johnxjust put them on pastebin.ca06:36
johnxthat way other people can have a look if they want06:36
b-mani don't think my xchat has a pastebin plugin :P06:37
johnxhuh? but it has an email plugin? :P06:38
*** jacques has joined #maemo06:38
b-manit has a file-transfer plugin - would that help?06:38
johnxI don't think I can receive files from dcc06:39
johnxI'm behind too many firewalls :/06:39
b-manoh, got to go - need to do some chores - see you in ah hour or so..06:40
*** b-man has quit IRC06:40
*** kimitake____ has joined #maemo06:44
*** benh has quit IRC06:44
*** kimitake____ has quit IRC06:47
*** kimitake____ has joined #maemo06:47
*** b-man has joined #maemo06:57
b-mani'm back06:57
b-manjhonx, you there?06:58
johnxstill here06:58
b-mani'm trying to find an easy way to show you those logs...06:59
johnxthey're on an sd card, right?06:59
b-manin the ubuntu partition :)07:00
johnxboot into maemo, open the log in text editor, copy into . presto :)07:00
*** t_s_o has joined #maemo07:01
b-manusing my cdeb2» software to gain acsess to my ubuntu partition...07:02
*** kimitake____ has quit IRC07:06
b-manjhonx; - my xorg log07:07
johnxdid you specify that you want to use omapfb driver in your xorg.conf?07:08
johnxit's erroring out trying to load the "vesa" video driver...which it shouldn't try to load07:08
*** rsalveti has joined #maemo07:09
*** benh has joined #maemo07:10
b-mani actually used a xorg.conf from mer, witch included all of the specifications, but xorg refuses to use it and automaticly falls back on xorg.conf.failsafe and uses wron parameters.07:10
johnxdo you have the log from when X decides to use the xorg.conf.failsafe?07:13
b-manthat was the log...07:14
b-mani think...07:16
johnxusually what happens is that X fails to start and then it runs a new X server that uses the xorg.conf.failsafe07:16
johnxdo you have any other logs?07:17
b-mani'll look07:17
johnxand while you're at it, put up your xorg.conf . I wonder if you might be using an old xorg.conf or an old copy of the omapfb x driver07:17
AStormesp. verbose .8 log07:18
*** onion has quit IRC07:18
*** herzi has quit IRC07:18
*** Grackle has quit IRC07:18
*** alterego has quit IRC07:18
*** aboyz has quit IRC07:18
*** Pavlov has quit IRC07:18
*** gletelli has quit IRC07:18
*** gladiac has quit IRC07:18
*** Aisling has quit IRC07:18
*** ch4os has quit IRC07:18
*** WolfSage has quit IRC07:18
*** robtaylor has quit IRC07:18
*** timely has quit IRC07:18
*** zorrolero has quit IRC07:18
*** jacques has quit IRC07:18
*** acydlord has quit IRC07:18
*** pcfe has quit IRC07:18
*** guardian has quit IRC07:18
*** ryoohki has quit IRC07:18
*** legind has quit IRC07:18
*** Jaffa has quit IRC07:18
*** MiskaX has quit IRC07:18
*** _closure has quit IRC07:18
*** xorAxAx has quit IRC07:18
*** GeneralAntilles has quit IRC07:18
*** croppa has quit IRC07:18
*** fuz_ has quit IRC07:18
*** borism has quit IRC07:18
*** mikkov_ has quit IRC07:18
*** dob has quit IRC07:18
*** anima has quit IRC07:18
*** glass has quit IRC07:18
*** bearclaw has quit IRC07:18
*** cmvo has quit IRC07:18
*** aquarius- has quit IRC07:18
*** solmumaha has quit IRC07:18
*** Norrit_ has quit IRC07:18
*** pdz has quit IRC07:18
*** Pebby has quit IRC07:18
*** karbas has quit IRC07:18
*** LiraNuna has quit IRC07:18
*** taplax has quit IRC07:18
*** solarion has quit IRC07:18
*** Khertan_n810 has quit IRC07:18
*** jumpula has quit IRC07:18
*** k`sOSe has quit IRC07:18
*** punkass has quit IRC07:18
*** bergwolf has quit IRC07:18
*** \stro has quit IRC07:18
*** pvanhoof has quit IRC07:18
*** booiiing has quit IRC07:18
*** ShadowJK has quit IRC07:18
*** flatface_ has quit IRC07:18
*** kaatis has quit IRC07:18
*** jkyro has quit IRC07:18
*** ijon_ has quit IRC07:18
*** summatusmentis has quit IRC07:18
*** Neithan has quit IRC07:18
*** rwhitby has quit IRC07:18
*** Disconnect has quit IRC07:18
*** solca has quit IRC07:18
*** bstock has quit IRC07:18
*** emma has quit IRC07:18
*** aloisiojr has quit IRC07:18
*** fredix has quit IRC07:18
*** msh has quit IRC07:18
*** VRe has quit IRC07:18
*** pyhimys has quit IRC07:18
*** mariorz has quit IRC07:18
*** jaska has quit IRC07:18
*** Robot101 has quit IRC07:18
*** nikosapi has quit IRC07:18
*** kulve has quit IRC07:18
*** Hirvinen has quit IRC07:18
*** `Mace has quit IRC07:18
*** r2d2rogers has quit IRC07:18
*** jvtm has quit IRC07:18
*** inz has quit IRC07:18
*** alextreme has quit IRC07:18
*** wanders has quit IRC07:18
*** mat has quit IRC07:18
*** dlmarti has quit IRC07:18
*** Dasajev has quit IRC07:18
*** Juhaz has quit IRC07:18
*** ToyKeeper has quit IRC07:18
*** andrunko has quit IRC07:18
*** zeenix has quit IRC07:18
*** profoX` has quit IRC07:18
*** oli has quit IRC07:18
*** EgS has quit IRC07:18
*** drjnut has quit IRC07:18
*** hap has quit IRC07:18
*** tabletee1 has quit IRC07:18
*** trenka has quit IRC07:18
*** dystopia has quit IRC07:18
*** Jiten has quit IRC07:18
*** script has quit IRC07:18
*** Firehand has quit IRC07:18
*** milhouse has quit IRC07:18
*** wiza has quit IRC07:18
*** vcgomes has quit IRC07:18
*** X-Fade has quit IRC07:18
*** wnd has quit IRC07:18
*** romaxa___ has quit IRC07:18
*** riot has quit IRC07:18
AStormshould be in /var/log07:18
AStormsplit city :P07:19
*** pupnik_ has joined #maemo07:21
*** rsalveti has quit IRC07:21
*** b-man has quit IRC07:21
*** dforsyth has quit IRC07:21
*** chandoo has quit IRC07:21
*** hellwolf-n810 has quit IRC07:21
*** lool has quit IRC07:21
*** Meiz_n810 has quit IRC07:21
*** Vulcanis has quit IRC07:21
*** GAN800 has quit IRC07:21
*** guerby has quit IRC07:21
*** tank-man has quit IRC07:21
*** pupnik__ has quit IRC07:21
*** krutt has quit IRC07:21
*** geaaru has quit IRC07:21
*** svu__ has quit IRC07:21
*** johnx has quit IRC07:21
*** nelson has quit IRC07:21
*** briand has quit IRC07:21
*** philipl has quit IRC07:21
*** GAN8001 has quit IRC07:21
*** Pyrhos has quit IRC07:21
*** TeringTu1y has quit IRC07:21
*** befr0d has quit IRC07:21
*** aquatix has quit IRC07:21
*** dragorn has quit IRC07:21
*** cy3o3 has quit IRC07:21
*** fysa has quit IRC07:21
*** mortti_ has quit IRC07:21
*** cyndis has quit IRC07:21
*** straind has quit IRC07:21
*** blafasel has quit IRC07:21
*** IRSeekBot has quit IRC07:21
*** dev has quit IRC07:21
*** pupnik has quit IRC07:22
*** benh has quit IRC07:22
*** sin18 has quit IRC07:22
*** gentooer has quit IRC07:22
*** SHADOW__X has quit IRC07:22
*** bef0rd has quit IRC07:22
*** matt_c has quit IRC07:22
*** andre___ has quit IRC07:22
*** eton has quit IRC07:22
*** bmidgley has quit IRC07:22
*** Proteous has quit IRC07:22
*** wjt has quit IRC07:22
*** derf has quit IRC07:22
*** JunnuX has quit IRC07:22
*** chouse has quit IRC07:22
*** BULLE has quit IRC07:22
*** lir1 has quit IRC07:22
*** |thunder has quit IRC07:22
*** jott has quit IRC07:23
*** suihkulokki has quit IRC07:23
*** akiniemi has quit IRC07:23
*** suihkulokki has joined #maemo07:23
*** akiniemi has joined #maemo07:23
*** ccooke has quit IRC07:23
*** mavhc has quit IRC07:24
*** benh has joined #maemo07:24
*** sin18 has joined #maemo07:24
*** gentooer has joined #maemo07:24
*** SHADOW__X has joined #maemo07:24
*** bef0rd has joined #maemo07:24
*** matt_c has joined #maemo07:24
*** andre___ has joined #maemo07:24
*** eton has joined #maemo07:24
*** bmidgley has joined #maemo07:24
*** Proteous has joined #maemo07:24
*** wjt has joined #maemo07:24
*** derf has joined #maemo07:24
*** |thunder has joined #maemo07:24
*** chouse has joined #maemo07:24
*** BULLE has joined #maemo07:24
*** lir1 has joined #maemo07:24
*** JunnuX has joined #maemo07:24
*** mavhc has joined #maemo07:24
*** jacques has joined #maemo07:24
*** acydlord has joined #maemo07:24
*** herzi has joined #maemo07:24
*** pcfe has joined #maemo07:24
*** aloisiojr has joined #maemo07:24
*** Grackle has joined #maemo07:24
*** alterego has joined #maemo07:24
*** pvanhoof has joined #maemo07:24
*** guardian has joined #maemo07:24
*** alextreme has joined #maemo07:24
*** punkass has joined #maemo07:24
*** profoX` has joined #maemo07:24
*** onion has joined #maemo07:24
*** booiiing has joined #maemo07:24
*** fredix has joined #maemo07:24
*** aboyz has joined #maemo07:24
*** gladiac has joined #maemo07:24
*** croppa has joined #maemo07:24
*** jvtm has joined #maemo07:24
*** wanders has joined #maemo07:24
*** oli has joined #maemo07:24
*** fuz_ has joined #maemo07:24
*** bergwolf has joined #maemo07:24
*** msh has joined #maemo07:24
*** \stro has joined #maemo07:24
*** EgS has joined #maemo07:24
*** Pavlov has joined #maemo07:24
*** ryoohki has joined #maemo07:24
*** ShadowJK has joined #maemo07:24
*** drjnut has joined #maemo07:24
*** borism has joined #maemo07:24
*** gletelli has joined #maemo07:24
*** legind has joined #maemo07:24
*** hap has joined #maemo07:24
*** mat has joined #maemo07:24
*** milhouse has joined #maemo07:24
*** pdz has joined #maemo07:24
*** Norrit_ has joined #maemo07:24
*** kulve has joined #maemo07:24
*** inz has joined #maemo07:24
*** emma has joined #maemo07:24
*** solmumaha has joined #maemo07:24
*** aquarius- has joined #maemo07:24
*** k`sOSe has joined #maemo07:24
*** romaxa___ has joined #maemo07:24
*** Juhaz has joined #maemo07:24
*** r2d2rogers has joined #maemo07:24
*** Pebby has joined #maemo07:24
*** zorrolero has joined #maemo07:24
*** nikosapi has joined #maemo07:24
*** ch4os has joined #maemo07:24
*** cmvo has joined #maemo07:24
*** X-Fade has joined #maemo07:24
*** solca has joined #maemo07:24
*** Aisling has joined #maemo07:24
*** bstock has joined #maemo07:24
*** ijon_ has joined #maemo07:24
*** bearclaw has joined #maemo07:24
*** riot has joined #maemo07:24
*** Robot101 has joined #maemo07:24
*** pyhimys has joined #maemo07:24
*** Hirvinen has joined #maemo07:24
*** jaska has joined #maemo07:24
*** `Mace has joined #maemo07:24
*** mariorz has joined #maemo07:24
*** VRe has joined #maemo07:24
*** Disconnect has joined #maemo07:24
*** timely has joined #maemo07:24
*** WolfSage has joined #maemo07:24
*** robtaylor has joined #maemo07:24
*** Dasajev has joined #maemo07:24
*** ToyKeeper has joined #maemo07:24
*** dlmarti has joined #maemo07:24
*** zeenix has joined #maemo07:24
*** andrunko has joined #maemo07:24
*** Khertan_n810 has joined #maemo07:24
*** dystopia has joined #maemo07:24
*** glass has joined #maemo07:24
*** rwhitby has joined #maemo07:24
*** vcgomes has joined #maemo07:24
*** trenka has joined #maemo07:24
*** anima has joined #maemo07:24
*** Jaffa has joined #maemo07:24
*** LiraNuna has joined #maemo07:24
*** GeneralAntilles has joined #maemo07:24
*** _closure has joined #maemo07:24
*** jkyro has joined #maemo07:24
*** dob has joined #maemo07:24
*** xorAxAx has joined #maemo07:24
*** mikkov_ has joined #maemo07:24
*** kaatis has joined #maemo07:24
*** jumpula has joined #maemo07:24
*** wiza has joined #maemo07:24
*** wnd has joined #maemo07:24
*** MiskaX has joined #maemo07:24
*** summatusmentis has joined #maemo07:24
*** Firehand has joined #maemo07:24
*** solarion has joined #maemo07:24
*** Jiten has joined #maemo07:24
*** flatface_ has joined #maemo07:24
*** Neithan has joined #maemo07:24
*** karbas has joined #maemo07:24
*** taplax has joined #maemo07:24
*** tabletee1 has joined #maemo07:24
*** script has joined #maemo07:24
Tobapew pew07:26
*** onion has quit IRC07:28
*** Grackle has quit IRC07:28
*** herzi has quit IRC07:28
*** Pavlov has quit IRC07:28
*** timely has quit IRC07:28
*** Aisling has quit IRC07:28
*** aboyz has quit IRC07:28
*** ch4os has quit IRC07:28
*** alterego has quit IRC07:28
*** gladiac has quit IRC07:28
*** gletelli has quit IRC07:28
*** WolfSage has quit IRC07:28
*** robtaylor has quit IRC07:28
*** zorrolero has quit IRC07:28
*** Jaffa has quit IRC07:28
*** acydlord has quit IRC07:28
*** pcfe has quit IRC07:28
*** legind has quit IRC07:28
*** guardian has quit IRC07:28
*** MiskaX has quit IRC07:28
*** _closure has quit IRC07:28
*** xorAxAx has quit IRC07:28
*** GeneralAntilles has quit IRC07:28
*** jacques has quit IRC07:28
*** ryoohki has quit IRC07:28
*** mikkov_ has quit IRC07:28
*** dob has quit IRC07:28
*** anima has quit IRC07:28
*** glass has quit IRC07:28
*** bearclaw has quit IRC07:28
*** cmvo has quit IRC07:28
*** aquarius- has quit IRC07:28
*** solmumaha has quit IRC07:28
*** Norrit_ has quit IRC07:28
*** pdz has quit IRC07:28
*** Pebby has quit IRC07:28
*** karbas has quit IRC07:28
*** mavhc has quit IRC07:28
*** LiraNuna has quit IRC07:28
*** borism has quit IRC07:28
*** taplax has quit IRC07:28
*** solarion has quit IRC07:28
*** Khertan_n810 has quit IRC07:28
*** jumpula has quit IRC07:28
*** k`sOSe has quit IRC07:28
*** fuz_ has quit IRC07:28
*** croppa has quit IRC07:28
*** punkass has quit IRC07:28
*** bergwolf has quit IRC07:28
*** \stro has quit IRC07:28
*** flatface_ has quit IRC07:28
*** kaatis has quit IRC07:28
*** jkyro has quit IRC07:28
*** ijon_ has quit IRC07:28
*** booiiing has quit IRC07:28
*** summatusmentis has quit IRC07:28
*** pvanhoof has quit IRC07:28
*** Neithan has quit IRC07:28
*** rwhitby has quit IRC07:28
*** ShadowJK has quit IRC07:28
*** Disconnect has quit IRC07:28
*** solca has quit IRC07:28
*** bstock has quit IRC07:28
*** emma has quit IRC07:28
*** VRe has quit IRC07:28
*** pyhimys has quit IRC07:28
*** msh has quit IRC07:28
*** mariorz has quit IRC07:28
*** jaska has quit IRC07:28
*** Robot101 has quit IRC07:28
*** nikosapi has quit IRC07:28
*** fredix has quit IRC07:28
*** kulve has quit IRC07:28
*** Hirvinen has quit IRC07:28
*** `Mace has quit IRC07:28
*** r2d2rogers has quit IRC07:28
*** aloisiojr has quit IRC07:28
*** jvtm has quit IRC07:28
*** inz has quit IRC07:28
*** dlmarti has quit IRC07:28
*** Dasajev has quit IRC07:28
*** Juhaz has quit IRC07:28
*** wanders has quit IRC07:28
*** ToyKeeper has quit IRC07:28
*** andrunko has quit IRC07:28
*** alextreme has quit IRC07:28
*** mat has quit IRC07:28
*** zeenix has quit IRC07:28
*** tabletee1 has quit IRC07:28
*** trenka has quit IRC07:28
*** romaxa___ has quit IRC07:28
*** Jiten has quit IRC07:28
*** Firehand has quit IRC07:28
*** hap has quit IRC07:28
*** milhouse has quit IRC07:28
*** wiza has quit IRC07:28
*** dystopia has quit IRC07:28
*** vcgomes has quit IRC07:28
*** X-Fade has quit IRC07:28
*** wnd has quit IRC07:28
*** EgS has quit IRC07:28
*** oli has quit IRC07:28
*** script has quit IRC07:28
*** riot has quit IRC07:28
*** drjnut has quit IRC07:28
*** profoX` has quit IRC07:28
*** JunnuX has quit IRC07:28
*** chouse has quit IRC07:28
*** sin18 has quit IRC07:28
*** bmidgley has quit IRC07:28
*** BULLE has quit IRC07:28
*** benh has quit IRC07:28
*** SHADOW__X has quit IRC07:28
*** eton has quit IRC07:28
*** lir1 has quit IRC07:28
*** derf has quit IRC07:28
*** bef0rd has quit IRC07:28
*** gentooer has quit IRC07:28
*** |thunder has quit IRC07:28
*** wjt has quit IRC07:28
*** Proteous has quit IRC07:28
*** andre___ has quit IRC07:28
*** matt_c has quit IRC07:28
*** ccooke_ has joined #maemo07:30
*** mavhc has joined #maemo07:30
*** jacques has joined #maemo07:30
*** acydlord has joined #maemo07:30
*** herzi has joined #maemo07:30
*** pcfe has joined #maemo07:30
*** aloisiojr has joined #maemo07:30
*** Grackle has joined #maemo07:30
*** alterego has joined #maemo07:30
*** pvanhoof has joined #maemo07:30
*** guardian has joined #maemo07:30
*** alextreme has joined #maemo07:30
*** punkass has joined #maemo07:30
*** profoX` has joined #maemo07:30
*** onion has joined #maemo07:30
*** booiiing has joined #maemo07:30
*** fredix has joined #maemo07:30
*** aboyz has joined #maemo07:30
*** gladiac has joined #maemo07:30
*** croppa has joined #maemo07:30
*** jvtm has joined #maemo07:30
*** wanders has joined #maemo07:30
*** oli has joined #maemo07:30
*** fuz_ has joined #maemo07:30
*** bergwolf has joined #maemo07:30
*** msh has joined #maemo07:30
*** \stro has joined #maemo07:30
*** EgS has joined #maemo07:30
*** Pavlov has joined #maemo07:30
*** ryoohki has joined #maemo07:30
*** ShadowJK has joined #maemo07:30
*** drjnut has joined #maemo07:30
*** borism has joined #maemo07:30
*** gletelli has joined #maemo07:30
*** legind has joined #maemo07:30
*** hap has joined #maemo07:30
*** mat has joined #maemo07:30
*** milhouse has joined #maemo07:30
*** pdz has joined #maemo07:30
*** Norrit_ has joined #maemo07:30
*** kulve has joined #maemo07:30
*** inz has joined #maemo07:30
*** emma has joined #maemo07:30
*** solmumaha has joined #maemo07:30
*** aquarius- has joined #maemo07:30
*** k`sOSe has joined #maemo07:30
*** romaxa___ has joined #maemo07:30
*** Juhaz has joined #maemo07:30
*** r2d2rogers has joined #maemo07:30
*** Pebby has joined #maemo07:30
*** zorrolero has joined #maemo07:30
*** nikosapi has joined #maemo07:30
*** ch4os has joined #maemo07:30
*** cmvo has joined #maemo07:30
*** X-Fade has joined #maemo07:30
*** solca has joined #maemo07:30
*** Aisling has joined #maemo07:30
*** bstock has joined #maemo07:30
*** ijon_ has joined #maemo07:30
*** bearclaw has joined #maemo07:30
*** riot has joined #maemo07:30
*** Dasajev has joined #maemo07:30
*** ToyKeeper has joined #maemo07:30
*** dlmarti has joined #maemo07:30
*** zeenix has joined #maemo07:30
*** andrunko has joined #maemo07:30
*** Khertan_n810 has joined #maemo07:30
*** dystopia has joined #maemo07:30
*** glass has joined #maemo07:30
*** rwhitby has joined #maemo07:30
*** vcgomes has joined #maemo07:30
*** trenka has joined #maemo07:30
*** anima has joined #maemo07:30
*** Jaffa has joined #maemo07:30
*** LiraNuna has joined #maemo07:30
*** GeneralAntilles has joined #maemo07:30
*** _closure has joined #maemo07:30
*** jkyro has joined #maemo07:30
*** dob has joined #maemo07:30
*** xorAxAx has joined #maemo07:30
*** mikkov_ has joined #maemo07:30
*** kaatis has joined #maemo07:30
*** jumpula has joined #maemo07:30
*** wiza has joined #maemo07:30
*** wnd has joined #maemo07:30
*** MiskaX has joined #maemo07:30
*** summatusmentis has joined #maemo07:30
*** Firehand has joined #maemo07:30
*** solarion has joined #maemo07:30
*** Jiten has joined #maemo07:30
*** flatface_ has joined #maemo07:30
*** Neithan has joined #maemo07:30
*** karbas has joined #maemo07:30
*** taplax has joined #maemo07:30
*** tabletee1 has joined #maemo07:30
*** script has joined #maemo07:30
*** robtaylor has joined #maemo07:30
*** WolfSage has joined #maemo07:30
*** timely has joined #maemo07:30
*** Disconnect has joined #maemo07:30
*** VRe has joined #maemo07:30
*** mariorz has joined #maemo07:30
*** `Mace has joined #maemo07:30
*** jaska has joined #maemo07:30
*** Hirvinen has joined #maemo07:30
*** pyhimys has joined #maemo07:30
*** Robot101 has joined #maemo07:30
*** jott has joined #maemo07:31
*** rsalveti has joined #maemo07:31
*** b-man has joined #maemo07:31
*** dforsyth has joined #maemo07:31
*** chandoo has joined #maemo07:31
*** hellwolf-n810 has joined #maemo07:31
*** lool has joined #maemo07:31
*** Meiz_n810 has joined #maemo07:31
*** Vulcanis has joined #maemo07:31
*** GAN800 has joined #maemo07:31
*** guerby has joined #maemo07:31
*** tank-man has joined #maemo07:31
*** pupnik__ has joined #maemo07:31
*** krutt has joined #maemo07:31
*** geaaru has joined #maemo07:31
*** svu__ has joined #maemo07:31
*** johnx has joined #maemo07:31
*** nelson has joined #maemo07:31
*** briand has joined #maemo07:31
*** philipl has joined #maemo07:31
*** GAN8001 has joined #maemo07:31
*** Pyrhos has joined #maemo07:31
*** TeringTu1y has joined #maemo07:31
*** cyndis has joined #maemo07:31
*** cy3o3 has joined #maemo07:31
*** straind has joined #maemo07:31
*** dev has joined #maemo07:31
*** blafasel has joined #maemo07:31
*** mortti_ has joined #maemo07:31
*** aquatix has joined #maemo07:31
*** fysa has joined #maemo07:31
*** befr0d has joined #maemo07:31
*** dragorn has joined #maemo07:31
*** IRSeekBot has joined #maemo07:31
AStormwoo, more :)07:31
*** benh has joined #maemo07:31
*** sin18 has joined #maemo07:31
*** gentooer has joined #maemo07:31
*** SHADOW__X has joined #maemo07:31
*** bef0rd has joined #maemo07:31
*** matt_c has joined #maemo07:31
*** andre___ has joined #maemo07:31
*** eton has joined #maemo07:31
*** bmidgley has joined #maemo07:31
*** Proteous has joined #maemo07:31
*** wjt has joined #maemo07:31
*** derf has joined #maemo07:31
*** |thunder has joined #maemo07:31
*** chouse has joined #maemo07:31
*** BULLE has joined #maemo07:31
*** lir1 has joined #maemo07:31
*** JunnuX has joined #maemo07:31
*** gopi has quit IRC07:31
*** Grackle has quit IRC07:33
b-manhow are so many people logging in/out at once!?!? - or am i going lonny :P07:34
AStormit's a netsplit07:35
AStormbtw, do we have an n8x0 build of ghc? (glasgow haskell compiler)07:36
b-mani have no idia :P07:36
johnxAStorm, I was really impressed how you commanded it to happen :D07:36
AStormjust a coincidence07:37
johnxright. whatever you say. I'll just remember not to make you angry so you don't kick me off the internet O_o07:38
b-manjohnx, did you get those log files? - i mostly just packed up my /var/log directory in a .tar.gz07:38
AStorm(and a bit of future seeing)07:39
johnxwhat gdm are you using?07:41
AStormI recommend startx07:41
johnxAStorm, he has no keyboard, and no way to ssh or telnet07:42
AStormthen timed startx in a script07:42
AStormas long as he can flash07:42
b-manthe one that was installed when i installed ubuntu-desktop (gnome display manager)07:42
AStormmhm, gdm07:43
AStormit probably hijacks the log07:43
johnxare you using one of the X packages from deblet?07:43
b-manno, but i did install insserv for ubuntu.07:44
johnxsomehow you have xomap installed I think07:45
johnxinstead of xserver-xorg-video-omapfb07:45
b-mani'll check synaptic.. hold on...07:45
johnxyeah, search for anything omap07:45
johnxer...maybe scratch that. it really looks like you have part of the gdm config to run xomap, but X is linked to Xorg07:46
AStormdo we have a package of ghc for maemo?07:47
johnxprobably not07:47
b-manwith the exception of xorg omap drivers, nothing else07:48
b-manno xomap-xserver07:49
johnxok, I was probably wrong on that. it looks like gdm is supplying the right options to run xomap, but is passing them Xorg07:49
b-manthat might have ben caused because i was running some apps from chroot in maemo.07:49
b-mando you think it could be gdm-conf?07:50
johnxyes, that's probably it. where did you get it from?07:51
b-manfrom deblet :)07:51
johnxwhy don't you just grab a Mer image?07:52
b-manbecause mer doesn't have gdm.conf07:52
b-manit uses hildon07:52
johnxhow will you use gdm without a keyboard?07:53
b-manauto login :)07:53
johnxin a sec, I'll have an alternative to gdm called auto-startx :)07:53
johnxit will run startx from init.d07:54
johnxMer's hildon plays nicer with other desktop environments than Nokia's hildon07:54
AStorman init script07:55
johnxthink of it as a display manager replacement that always auto-logins as a certain user07:56
johnxbut in this case people can at least pick the user and desktop env it runs07:56
johnxor easily replace it with gdm, kdm, wdm, xdm07:56
johnxin fact, the goal is to have apt-get install gdm "do the right thing" (tm) from a default mer install07:58
*** pupnik__ has quit IRC07:59
b-manso this script will automaticly log me in on console, startx, log me in on gnome, and drop me off at my desktop?08:00
johnxthat's the idea08:00
johnxI'll see if it works in a sec :)08:00
*** Grackle has joined #maemo08:01
AStormreally, please do steal ubuntu init08:01
johnxnot sure I understand? does ubuntu have something that does this?08:01
b-mangod it's late; 1:02 am here :p08:03
johnxwell, then don't stay up waiting for my package08:03
johnxit will be a bit yet08:04
b-mansee you tomorrow ;)08:04
johnx'night :)08:04
*** b-man has quit IRC08:04
*** yigal has joined #maemo08:07
AStormjohnx, as in, get rid of the broken maemo init08:11
johnxit's done08:11
johnxit will run the same way x-display-manager runs in debuntu08:12
AStormas a bonus, you can use upstart properly08:12
johnxis there a tutorial I could read on that?08:13
johnxfor now I'll be happy to just make it get into a desktop env08:13
AStormno idea yet :)08:13
johnxthen it can wait til later I guess08:14
johnxthat should be easy to shoehorn in later in a "polishing" stage...maybe even by you? :D08:14
AStormare you working on fremantle by any chance?08:15
johnxin mer? largely08:16
johnxbut the fremantle pre-alpha-sdk mostly consists of a diablo-like environment08:16
johnxno fancy-shmancy 3D stuff added yet08:16
johnxjust some version bumps08:16
*** Vulcanis has quit IRC08:19
*** Disconnect has quit IRC08:26
*** Disconnect has joined #maemo08:27
*** gentooer has quit IRC08:30
*** Vulcanis has joined #maemo08:33
*** lpotter has joined #maemo08:36
*** `0660 has quit IRC08:44
*** simon_ has joined #maemo09:40
*** eocanha has joined #maemo09:50
*** mardi__1 has joined #maemo09:52
*** konttori has joined #maemo09:52
*** guardian has quit IRC10:05
*** mardi__ has quit IRC10:11
RST38hmoo johnx10:34
johnxm00f RST38h10:34
konttorimoo all10:34
* konttori begins today his adobe flex tests10:34
*** Stslaptop has joined #maemo10:38
johnxdon't. wanna.10:48
*** juergbi has joined #maemo10:50
*** frade has joined #maemo10:55
*** lubyou has quit IRC10:57
*** tekojo has joined #maemo11:02
*** lubyou has joined #maemo11:02
*** frade has quit IRC11:06
*** frade has joined #maemo11:07
JaffaMorning, all11:16
johnxmornin' Jaffa11:21
Vulcanisnot tired11:22
johnxI could try and bore you to sleep11:23
Vulcanisdoesn't work11:23
VulcanisI've already tried11:23
*** hellwolf-n810 has quit IRC11:29
*** Zic has joined #maemo11:29
*** ignacius has joined #maemo11:37
johnxVulcanis, read the debian new package maintainers guide11:40
*** `0660 has joined #maemo11:40
johnxif you don't fall asleep you can start packaging things for extras :D11:40
Vulcanisjohnx: link?11:40
VulcanisI'll read it during school11:40
VulcanisI can't actually code, so I might as well do something else useful11:41
johnxit really will help you sleep :)11:41
Vulcanisit won't, but thats ok11:41
Vulcanisits more entertaining than what I was doing11:41
Vulcanisbut I'm saving it for school11:41
Vulcaniswhen theres nothing else to do.  Except learn, I guess, but no one really teaches11:41
Vulcanisits review for fscking midterms11:41
johnxfucking midterms? O_o sounds interesting to me? how is it scored?11:42
VulcanisStamina, I would guess.11:43
johnxtypical. no one ever appreciates unique style11:44
Vulcanisthey're midterms, what do you expect?11:45
Vulcanisthats like saying "Typical, SATs don't ever grade on the quality of the cat you make on the bubblesheet"11:46
johnxbut it was such a great picture!11:46
* johnx sulks11:46
johnx...had dithering too... :/11:46
VulcanisCan SAT scores affect you after you get into college?11:48
VulcanisI don't think so...11:48
Vulcanisso after I'm in, I should go back11:48
Vulcanispay the 80 or whatever11:48
Vulcanisand answer all Cs11:48
Vulcanisand see my score11:48
johnxsee if you can prove whether there's correlation or not?11:48
Vulcanisno, I just have a feeling I'll get a 75% of 2600 or whatever the new score is11:49
johnxso nice to have escaped with only taking the two tests11:49
Vulcaniseven if the essay part is just "Cccc Cc Cccc: c Ccc cc Cccc. cccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccccc"11:49
*** Meiz_n810 has quit IRC11:49
VulcanisI only took one, and it was horrid11:49
johnxby two I mean math and verbal11:50
VulcanisI don't see the point in this next semester11:50
VulcanisI'll relearn it all in college11:50
johnxdo it now and then you can screw around in college while everyone has to work11:51
johnxthat's the point11:51
AStormnot really11:52
AStormand maybe have a shot at a better paid job11:52
AStormjust maybe11:52
*** gnuton has joined #maemo11:52
johnxfixed it for you :)11:52
AStormwell, try to get into IT industry w/o degree11:53
AStormI wish you luck.11:53
johnxmy point was the opposite :P11:54
johnxbut actually I did11:54
AStormprobably in the US?11:54
johnxmy point was "try to get a paid job w/o degree in this eceonomy"11:54
johnxbut yes, in the US11:54
AStormhere it's impossible unless you have conections11:54
AStormyes, a bit hard11:55
AStormand degrees are overrated11:55
johnxI had 3 years of experience as a linux sysadmin before I was out of high school11:55
johnxhelped for sure :)11:55
AStormsysadmin for whom? :P11:55
johnxthe school11:55
AStormmyself I set up their server11:55
johnxI'd get called out of class to fix shit :)11:55
AStormand admined it and net for 3y too11:55
AStormbut, this country is a stuck up b*tch11:56
*** hellwolf has joined #maemo11:56
AStormand they won't hire a sysadmin w/o a degree11:56
johnxhard to get anywhere without a degree here either, but getting a degree here is easier than in the US for sure11:56
AStormidiot managers11:56
AStormsame here11:56
AStormbut I'm now required to get 2mo of work experience...11:57
AStormin the field11:57
AStormw/o any degree11:57
AStormto get the engineer one11:57
AStormcatch 2211:57
johnxwin :)11:57
johnxdid you put your experience in high school on your cv/resume/job app?11:58
AStormI'll apply for a cushy spot in a cert company11:58
AStormjohnx, I'm yet to send it, I will obviously11:58
johnxgood. some people forget the whole "work experience" != "job experience"11:59
AStormjohnx, the trick is hat companies are refunded for our "practice"11:59
johnxhat companies?11:59
AStormeven then not many want us poor uni students11:59
johnxpictures AStorm sewing baseball caps :)11:59
AStormthey just have to run these short practices12:00
*** mardi__1 has quit IRC12:00
AStormor may even just hire a student, they'll get refunded 2 months12:00
johnxah, probably not the quality of the workers so much as the fact that 2 months is barely enough to make most people productive12:00
*** mardi__ has joined #maemo12:00
AStormbut of course, no, it's too much bother12:00
AStormand nobody wants a student12:01
AStormor even an intern w/o a degree12:01
*** mardi__ has quit IRC12:01
AStormtalk about our uni being disadvantaged12:01
johnxI was somewhat lucky to be starting into the "real world" job market before the current economy12:01
AStormheh yeah12:02
johnxwould have been awesome to start in 95/96 instead of 05/0612:02 fun12:02
glassAStorm: try to get to know the right people12:03
johnxI'd be dictating from my marble throne what interms should type into my IRC client12:03
glassAStorm: or scoring freelance gigs12:03
AStormfreelancing w/o a degree is impossible here12:04
glassAStorm: you're on the internet12:04
glassit's not impossible :)12:04
glassAStorm: i don't have a degree..12:04
AStormyup, if you tell me who will hire a programmer12:05
glasswell, what can you do12:05
AStormI can't do weeb design :P12:05
glassplenty easy to get shady php jobs from shady forums ;)12:05
AStormshady = not counting as work experience12:05
AStormmoney is not a problem just yet12:06
AStormbecause I got one shady job writing DVDRW firmware some time ago :P12:06
johnxthat's awesome12:07
AStormbut, it was shady, so nobody knows :P12:07
AStormwhich friggin sucks12:07
* johnx remembers installing hacked firmware on his first DVD drive. skeery stuff :)12:08
AStormfunny assembly for oldie chips12:08
AStormyou'd wonder what old hardware is still in use in embeddeed12:08
johnxI don't wonder. I know12:09
*** eichi_ has joined #maemo12:09
Stskeepsz80? :P12:09
johnxI believe it12:09
johnxwhy upgrade if you don't have to?12:09
AStormactually, 8051 family12:09
Vulcanis[05:03:24] <johnx> I'd be dictating from my marble throne what interms should type into my IRC client -- until 2000, when you're out on the streets begging for money to pay your 56k habit12:09
AStormthat's why I got a laugh when our uni had 8051 programming course12:10
*** qwerty12 has joined #maEMO12:10
AStorm*when I noticed12:10
johnxVulcanis, true. the past ain't what it used to be and/or the past sucks12:10
Vulcanisjohnx: No, it was amazing until the bubble burst12:10
AStormnew old tech chips are great12:11
AStormtiny, power efficient. indestructible12:11
VulcanisI just want a job after college12:11
johnxVulcanis, but amazing at 56K. no youtube, no rss, no decent ARM linux devices12:11
AStormVulcanis, a job... easy12:11
VulcanisAStorm: Not if the US economy keeps up12:11
johnxVulcanis, what kind of life is that? really?12:11
Vulcanisa decent job12:11
*** bilboed-tp has joined #maemo12:11
AStormVulcanis, now, that's different12:12
VulcanisJohn: One with animated gifs instead of youtube...?12:12
johnxeven all your base wasn't until after 2000, right?12:12
AStormjohnx, no, with Flash 1.012:12
Vulcanisit was12:12
AStormand java12:12
Vulcanisbut the meme never actually came up until around 9812:12
VulcanisAh, 9712:12
Vulcanisback when quicktime was a windows thang12:12
AStormI started at 96 myself12:13
AStormand at 95 Poland got connected to the Internet in a real commercial way12:13
AStormas in popular dialup12:13
AStormget a backseat, right? :P12:14
AStormmp3 was all the rage12:14
johnxI miss napster12:15
AStormnevr got to use it12:15
Vulcanismp3 is still 'all the rage'12:16
Vulcanisif you can fit 1000000000 songs on 32gb12:16
AStormfasttrack grew and died too12:16
AStormVulcanis, no, now it's common12:16
VulcanisAh, I guess your right12:16
Vulcanisback then a netbook was a pda12:17
Vulcanisand had no net12:17
Stskeepsdidn't fasttrack die cos many people got terribly sick of the adware? :P12:17
Vulcanisoh gods12:17
Vulcanisno wifi.  wired internet on laptops12:17
Stskeepsand bittorrent came along12:17
Vulcaniswhat the hell did people do back then?!12:17
johnxIR :D12:17
VulcanisIR didn't really work for webbernets12:17
* johnx can IRDA to his phone from his zaurus12:18
AStormaptops? far too expensive back then12:18
*** hannesw has joined #maemo12:18
Vulcanislaptops were not!12:18
Vulcaniswe had a 1500 business laptop from dell12:18
Vulcanisit was built like a brick12:18
AStormmaybe in the US12:18
Vulcanisa fragile, plastic brick12:18
johnxVulcanis, and it wasn't expensive?12:18
AStormwe got to build machines ourselves due to prices12:18
VulcanisJohnx: Not for what laptops were12:19
* Stskeeps prefers building machines too12:19
Vulcanisand it was about double a desktop back then12:19
Vulcanisbuilding machines = cheaper and better12:19
AStorm1500 $ of '95 was back then 4x local salary12:19
AStormgood one too12:19
AStormor more12:19
*** mlpug has joined #maemo12:21
johnxI link this every time the past comes up:
AStormparis was good12:25
AStormtry Poland or Russia at the time12:25
AStormyou could at least meet Lavoisier :P12:25
johnxand then die of tuberculosis at the age of 30! woo!12:26
AStormbetter than dying of starvation12:27
*** bef0rd has quit IRC12:27
johnxor better yet: not dying of either...12:27
AStormyes, past was sucky until XX century12:27
johnxthe 20th?12:28
AStormlike, at worst 1880s or so, England12:28
johnxthe late 20th century was marginally bearable12:28
AStormthe early was ok too12:28
AStormwith major improvements in most parts of world12:29
AStormor maybe, a few :P12:29
AStormmostly US and GB12:29
johnxdoctors were still more likely to kill you than fix you12:29
bakaratwhat's a good command line editor for maemo?12:29
bakaratnano/vim are not found?12:29
AStormjohnx, whatever12:29
AStormbut hygiene was finally existent12:29
Vulcanisvim should be there12:29
johnxbakarat, nano should be available12:29
AStormvi is there12:30
AStormfrom busybox12:30
Vulcanisvi is ebil12:30
Vulcanisvim is 19 fucking mb last I saw, though12:30
Vulcanisthe package , atleast12:30
AStormyou can install nano and vim12:30
AStormyes, so what?12:30
AStormit's *the* editor12:30
Vulcanishuge :(12:30
bakarati'll see if i can find nano hehe :>12:31
AStormnano is bad due to ctrl+foo binds12:31
mavhcI use nano, if it ever got soft line wrapping it'd be good12:31
AStormand hildon-i-m not having sticky ctrl12:31
Vulcanisxterm has the ctrl thing12:32
AStormwhich sucks :)12:32
bakarati actually like the ctrl binds in nano12:32
Vulcanisits better than nothing12:32
bakaratmight be slightly more annoying on the nokia device though hehe12:32
Vulcanisyou won't with the nokia12:32
AStormvim is better than that12:32
mavhcjust hold down ctrl then12:32
AStormthese 19 MB is not all that much12:32
AStormmavhc, yeah right12:33
AStormalso, vim here now supports touchscreen some12:33
AStormcan switch tabs with clicks, and select text12:33
AStormand have colorful syntax highlighting12:33
AStorma win for me, now can really write code on the move12:34
AStorm(with a modified keymap)12:35
johnxI wonder how long it will be until someone really gets a mobile computer right...12:38
AStormn810 is mostly right12:38
AStormwe need a foldable keyboard and screen12:38
AStormmaterials aren't there yet12:39
johnxa little more expandability, more power and more battery life at full load12:39
AStormbattery life is fairly good, but those everun umpcs were much better12:40
mavhcpsion's series 5 had the best keyboard12:40
AStormthough too large12:40
AStormmavhc, hmm, no, this e60/n810 one is almost as good12:40
AStormthis part Nokia got right12:41
AStorm(except dpad and menu key :P)12:41
johnxbattery life at full load isn't quite there yet, IMHO. 2 hours of really high usage is a little short12:41
AStorm2h? meh12:42
AStormI have 5h at worst12:42
AStormwhat are you doing with it to get 2h?12:42
johnxweb browsing12:42
mavhcpsion 5 was the full size of the device as it was clamshell12:42
johnxbut my battery is probably on the way out12:42
Vulcanisjohnx: brightness settings?12:42
AStormeven movies don't eat it that fast12:42
johnx20% usually12:42
AStormweb browsing with bt gives 7h12:42
VulcanisI run it at 10 :\12:43
Vulcanisand I get like, 4-6 browsing12:43
AStormI run at 20%12:43
johnxalso, my battery is coming up on 2 years12:43
AStormah, old one12:43
johnxtime for a new one I suppose :/12:43
AStormmine's still new12:43
AStormyou've lost 50% capacity or more12:43
johnxwhy are batteries so freaking expensive? >_<12:43
AStormbecause they're expensive to make12:44
johnxbare Li-ion cells are cheap12:44
AStormnot that small cells12:44
AStormalso, n810's is li-poly12:44
johnxbleh. I'll cut a hole in the cover and attach a camcorder battery.12:45
AStormnote, these are prismatic cells, not standard packs12:45
johnxbattery life problems: solved12:45
AStormweight problem added12:45
AStormand size too12:45
johnxbetter grip12:45
AStormworse imo12:45
AStormand hands would hurt12:45
johnx"tablet claw" :)12:45
AStormit's heavy enough as it is12:45
mavhc2 years of battery usage for $15, that's not expensive12:46
johnx$15 for a real Nokia battery?12:46
AStorm$15? where?12:46
johnxor even a 3rd part one that I have a reasonable expectation of working12:46
johnxmore like $40, isn't it?12:47
AStorm$50 is plausible12:47
mavhcdunno, just asked froogle12:47
johnxooh, seeing a bp-5l for $30. might have to pick that up12:47
*** housetier has joined #maemo12:47
AStormsee, I've bp-4l12:48
mavhchow many mAh should it be?12:49
*** lele has joined #maemo12:49
AStorm1200 or so?12:49
johnxbp-5l is 1500mAh12:49
AStorm1150 I think12:49
AStormmy bad12:49
AStormso bp-4l is the same12:49
johnxis it?12:49
AStormjust smaller and more sturdy12:49
AStormI can check12:50
johnxhmm...maybe that's not right12:50
johnxone sec12:50
`Macei love android12:50
`Maceit really is pretty good12:51
johnxhow's it feel in terms of screen refreshes?12:51
`Macei dont notice it12:52
`Maceim on it now12:52
`Macewell.. on my g1/htc dream12:52
mavhcsomeone said that android apps, being in java, not native, would always be slower12:52
johnxaaah, I see. thought you meant on a tablet12:52
`Macewell.. they seem to run fine to me12:53
AStormmavhc, not necessarily with thnat jazelle stuf we have12:53
`Macei mean. what would they have to compare it to? ;)12:53
*** yigal has quit IRC12:53
AStormnot a whole lot slower at least12:54
`Macewish i could run it on my n80012:54
`Maceg1 is pretty nice tho12:54
johnxjazelle apparently a) wouldn't make a huge difference and b) probably won't ever be used under linux until licensing changes12:54
`Macei think mostly due to the os and qwerty12:55
johnx`Mace, look up NITdroid12:55
`Maceother than that it's flimsy12:55
AStormjohnx, linux license? why?12:56
`Macemy n800 became kind of irrilavent12:56
johnxAStorm, something about them never wanting the source to get out12:56
`Macejohnx . nitdroid?12:56
johnx`Mace, android for the n8x012:56
AStormjohnx, who? sun?12:56
`Macedoes it work?12:57
AStormas jazelle is not microcoded12:57
qwerty12`Mace, if it didn't, I don't think it would be much of a project ;)12:57
johnxAStorm, it's not really java-specific. it's whoever licenses the jazelle tech.12:57
AStormARM inc.12:57
AStormno, jazelle is just a way to run bytecode directly on cpu12:58
AStormat least some12:58
`Macesounds awesome12:58
AStorma bunch of microcode12:58
`Maceill check it out soon12:58
johnxAStorm, well there's probably a good reason that google isn't using it...12:58
AStormapis are public, the microcode is not12:58
AStormthey aren't, because they don't have a right vm12:59
AStormthey'd have to buy one12:59
*** yerga has joined #maemo12:59
AStormor write one:P12:59
AStormwhich is a fairly large project12:59
johnxthey've strung ASM throughout that VM. writing one is not the problem12:59
AStormthey might be using it12:59
AStormpartially at least13:00
AStormthe big part is reducing cost of call stack handling13:00
johnxthey're not13:00
johnxas of nov 1213:00
johnxI can find the quote on licensing if you want. just a sec13:00
AStormmaybe they found it not faster than usual native arm asm13:00
AStormjohnx, now I have 4h to go :>13:01
AStormmy cell phone tether will die before n81013:02
bakaratonce i download some maps, is there a way for me to plot a route on the n810?13:02
bakarat(using maemo mapper)13:02
bakarati mean can i say like "from this street/city to this street/city"?13:03
AStormyou can even store the route13:03
bakaratAStorm, how?13:03
`Maceseems interesting13:03
AStormit's in the menu13:03
bakaratatm all i can find to enter a route is a single text field that doesn't allow for streets it seems?13:03
AStormuse a comma13:03
bakaratah? :D13:03
AStormit uses Google Maps syntax13:03
bakarati've never extensively used google maps :D13:04
`Macewell.. g1 replaced the n800 for mobile use13:04
AStormanything Google Maps will take, it will too13:04
bakaratwell that's good to know :D13:04
johnx`Mace, how's battery life?13:04
bakaratonce my new batch of maps is in, i will give it a whirl AStorm  :D13:04
`Maceguess i can still use the n800 at home13:04
johnxgetting through a whole day with it?13:04
bakaratalso, if i tell it to download another area of maps...will it remove the previous area?13:04
bakarator will it append?13:04
AStormbakarat, example: London, Leicester Sq.13:04
AStormcan give it a number too13:05
bakaratnice :D13:05
`Mace5 to 6 hrs of hard use13:05
`Maceuses usb cbl to charge tho13:05
AStorm`Mace, nice13:05
`Maceso that helps13:05
AStormhow's the text input?13:05
AStormreal keyboard?13:06
`Macepretty good13:06
`Mace5 row qwerty13:06
bakaratbtw, is there a way to speed up the gps fix?13:06
bakaratit's slow beyond comprehension :|13:06
AStormbakarat, install agps app from repos13:06
bakaratah thanks :D13:06
AStormit will help a bit13:06
`Macebuttons need some getting used to13:06
jaskathe first gps fix my n810 ever got took 24h+ :D13:06
jaskanowadays its not so slow13:06
AStormbut the problem is sucky GPS chip13:06
AStormand poor antenna13:06
`Maceinterface is beautifuk13:07
AStormit will take 1-3min13:07
VulcanisAStorm: gps for gps13:07
bakaratAStorm, only extra repository i got enabled is "extra's" atm13:07
Vulcanisn810 for n810 things13:07
bakaratis it in one of those repo's?13:07
AStormVulcanis, no, Google Satellite ftw13:07
X-Fadebakarat: It is in the tableteer repo.13:07
AStormbakarat, in extras13:07
X-Fadebakarat: Which is enabled by default.13:07
`Macei almost wish there were an android wm for X13:07
johnxAStorm, can't find a quote from google, but the word seems to be that ARM won't release info on how to initialize jazelle rct to any open source group13:07
AStormX-Fade, in tableteer now? mmh13:07
`Macewell.. bbl13:08
X-FadeAStorm: Never been in Extras.13:08
bakaratX-Fade, AStorm the package itself is called "agps" right?13:08
AStormjohnx, NDA fail, damn13:08
X-Fadebakarat: agps-ui13:08
AStormor that13:08
AStormsearch for it13:08
bakarato right, has search option13:08
bakaratlol :P13:08
bakaratsorry :P13:08
johnxAStorm, word also seems to be that it's not as much of an improvement as you'd think. mainly helps with startup time or somesuch13:09
X-Fadebakarat: A-GPS in AM.13:09
AStormjohnx, meh13:09
johnxAStorm, rest assured, google would have done it if it was worth it.13:09
bakarat"no matches found" AStorm :s13:10
AStormtry a-gps13:10
bakarat"no matches found" :(13:10
AStormbecause I'm in redpill (yeah, bleeding edge and all)13:10
AStormbakarat, check if you have tableteer repo enabled13:10
*** woglinde has joined #maemo13:11
AStormalso, is a-gps available for chinook?13:11
johnxyo woglinde13:11
X-FadeAStorm: no13:11
Vulcaniseww, chinook13:11
AStormI know it's for diablo13:11
AStormbakarat, ^13:11
X-FadeDiablo only.13:11
AStormso, you need diablo13:11
bakarat"nokia catalogue", "nokia catalogue (3rd party software)" "nokia system software udpates" "maemo extras"13:11
AStormupdate the OS first13:11
X-Fadebakarat: It is in the first one.13:11
bakarathow do i do that?13:11
AStormyou download latest diablo image, nokia flasher etc.13:12
AStormthere's a guide somewhere13:12
bakarato :|13:12
AStormgoogle it :)13:12
bakaratwas hoping for apt-get dist-upgrade or something :D13:12
infobotrumour has it, flashing is
Vulcanisare you on windows, baka?13:12
Vulcanisbecause windows makes it trivial13:12
bakaratVulcanis, linux13:12
AStormwindows flasher can flash it too13:12
AStormlinux is simple too13:12
AStormone command shouldn't scare anyone13:13
Vulcaniswell then baka, you have to go through like six more steps, but its not terribad13:13
bakaratwell unless it's absolutly necessary, i'd rather not reflash :D13:13
AStormoh, 3, need a chmod +x :P13:13
bakarati just got the device almost to the point where it has to be :D13:13
bakaratjust gotta update the gps thing a bit if at all possible :p13:13
AStormbakarat, it is necessary13:13
bakaratAStorm, do i lose extra applications/settings etc? :|13:13
AStormhopefully the last reflash needed13:13
bakarata reflash terminal :|13:14
X-Fadebakarat: Just run the backup utility.13:14
AStormsettings you can back up13:14
*** chandoo has quit IRC13:14
bakaratdoes that include all the apps? :D13:14
AStormsome apps you'll probably have to reinstall13:14
X-Fadebakarat: On diablo it automatically reinstall all your apps after flash.13:14
AStormit will attempt to install them for you13:15
johnxand the repository hell has cleared up since chinook13:15
AStormand fail at it :P13:15
AStormhopefully it'll work fine13:15
johnxmost things worth having are really in extras or extras-devel now13:15
AStormor in maemo devel13:15
*** ssvb has quit IRC13:15
AStormuhm, maemo tools13:16
bakaratgah don't want to lose my setup (spent the last 2 days tweaking most of it :'()13:16
johnxwhy didn't you update before tweaking?13:16
AStormyou probably won't13:16
*** dystopia has left #maemo13:17
AStormyeah, should've read the RSS13:17
bakarati thought the n810 shipped with the latest :P13:17
bakarati was s owrong :'(13:17
Robot101nothing ever ships with the latest13:17
bakaratand again, i'm used to "apt-get dist-upgrade" :D13:17
bakaratnot "reflash" :D13:17
AStormalmost nothing :>13:18
johnxdiablo is the last reflash13:18
bakaratso i didn't think it would wipe everything i've done so far :D13:18
Robot101there are usually about 2-3 months between the software being frozen and the devices actually hitting the shelves13:18
X-Fadebakarat: Go to diablo and it is your last reflash.13:18
johnxafter that it's update from inside app manager13:18
AStormbakarat, dist-upgrade is possible in diablo now :)13:18
bakaratyay :p13:18
AStormbut app manager can do full os upgrade now13:18
Robot101the first devices off the production line always have some embarrassing buggy crap software, the first point release is pretty much required to make it even vaguely usable :)13:18
AStormwhich is really dist-upgrade :P13:18
AStormRobot101, well, mine shipped with fairly ok chinook version13:19
AStormthough not latest13:19
johnxexcept that if you enable weird repos and try to dist-upgrade you may be in trouble13:19
bakaratwell it will have to wait at least until the maps are in :P13:19
Robot101and some S60 phones stay buggy and crap even after you've reflashed them :D13:19
bakarat200 meg over wifi on the n810 takes aaaaaaaaaaaaaaages13:19
AStormjohnx, but the same can be told about app manager updatge :>13:20
AStormbakarat, why? it can easily do 5-11Mbit13:20
johnxAStorm, it's generally more likely to succeed than dist-upgrade13:20
bakaratAStorm, i have no clue :|13:20
AStormthat's nowhere near ages13:20
AStormand you have to flash from the PC using usb cable13:20
bakaratAStorm, ye but the device is still busy :p13:21
AStormlocal flash messes up always for me13:21
bakarati installed iptraf to try and check the speed13:21
bakaratbut...i can't find the app atm :p13:21
AStormrun it from terminal, as root13:21
bakarat-sh: iptraf: not found13:21
AStormit's /usr/sbin/iptraf13:21
AStormalso, as I said, you need root13:21
bakaratthis program requires a screen size of at least 80 columns by 24 lines :|13:22
bakarathmmz :|13:22
AStormreduce font size then13:22
bakarathow do i do that?13:22
AStormI normally use 14pt13:23
AStormtry zoom key for simple way13:23
AStormand options for a permanent change13:23
AStormI'm using 12pt actually13:23
bakarathmm, the zoom thing isn't working i think13:23
AStormDejaVu Sans Mono 12 ftw13:24
bakarati've zoomed out to something that is near illegible13:24
bakaratstill doesn't work :|13:24
AStormrun reset13:24
AStorm(in the terminal)13:24
bakarato wait, got it now13:24
bakaratit's incomprehensibly small now though :D13:24
AStormso increase by a step13:24
AStormor use Tools_>Settings13:25
bakarat40.20 kb/s13:25
*** t_s_o has quit IRC13:25
AStormmaybe nokia's server is overloaded13:26
AStormor your route is bad :P13:26
bakaratit should be downloading from the openstreet maps thingy right?13:26
*** t_s_o has joined #maemo13:26
bakarati'm downloading maps?13:26
bakaratbout 200 megs worth of them13:26
AStormunless you're moving13:26
bakaratnot really :|13:26
AStormor set a manual download13:27
AStormthen close mapper13:27
johnxI blame your router13:27
bakarati'd rather not, he's bout 3/4 through it now :D13:27
AStormyou don't want that many maps13:27
bakaratjohnx, i use the same wireless connection on 2 laptops13:27
bakaratno problem13:27
bakarat(both laptops are off atm :p)13:27
johnxyour laptops don't use wifi powersaving as much13:28
AStormit will work slow (as mapper is inefficient at handling a large number of maps)13:28
*** soap has quit IRC13:28
bakarato :|13:28
bakaratcrap :(13:28
bakaratbut i need to travel within a certain area for my job13:28
bakaratso i wanted that area :(13:28
AStormyou want to download ondemand13:28
AStormor you can download along a route13:28
AStormalso, you probably don't need all zoom levels13:28
bakaratdownload on demand is not possible (i think) since i don't have internet on the road13:28
bakaratdownload along a route is all fine n dandy until you stray :D13:29
AStormso download a small area at large scale13:29
AStormand large area at small scale13:29
bakaratby small scale, you 15 and by large scale like 6? :P13:29
bakarator the other way around? :p13:29
bakaratk :p13:30
AStormalthough 15 is overkill13:30
AStormimo 13 is the smallest useful13:30
bakaratatm i'm downloading 6-8-10-1213:30
AStormesp. 6 takes a lot13:30
bakaratof the "big" area :p13:30
bakaratye, but without street level precision, there is not much use to a gps :D13:30
AStormI only grab the low levels around cities13:30
bakaratotherwise i might just take a compass along :D13:30
AStorm8 is enough13:30
*** Meiz_n810 has joined #maemo13:31
AStormsee it yourself13:31
bakarati will once the damn download is done :D13:31
bakaratdevice is rather slow while it's busy downloading it seems13:31
AStormand i've whole country at 12 :P13:31
AStormnah, because mapper is fsyncing to hell13:31
AStormand making immc busy13:31
*** Ulysses222 has joined #maemo13:32
AStormwhich asserts irqs13:32
bakaratany idea why the wifi is so slow btw?13:32
*** tulkastaldo has quit IRC13:32
AStormwifi isn't13:32
bakarat(except a router problem which i doubt a bit)13:32
AStormunless cpu can't keep up13:32
bakaratwell anything i do over wifi is slow, not only mapper13:32
AStormwhich is unlikely13:32
X-Fadebakarat: You aren't downloading one big file, but 100000 small files.13:32
AStorma large number of tiny files13:32
AStormcheck vs some speedtest13:33
johnxbakarat, you could try disabling wifi power saving and see if things improve. if they do it's your router's fault13:33
bakaratguys, thanks for all the feedback, but i'm going to get something to eat :D13:33
bakaratjohnx, will try that :>13:33
X-FadeSo you are seeing a lot of small requests which all have a round trip, the app has to save these files to the FS, which takes a lot more time and cpu than one big one.13:33
AStormalso, note that immc can do only 500 KB/s13:33
johnxalso, it's mounted sync, isn't it?13:34
AStormyou need to write to a real card to dl faster13:34
AStormjohnx, yes13:34
bakaratbbl guys :D13:34
bakaratagain thanks for everything! :>13:34
AStormsync doesn't slow down in case of normal download13:35
AStormif the card can keep up13:35
johnxmakes things more flexible though to let the kernel pick when to do I/O13:38
*** Navi has quit IRC13:38
*** Navi has joined #maemo13:40
AStormjohnx, yup13:40
AStormand esp. as stupid mapper fsyncs to hell13:40
AStorm(actually, stupid sqlite)13:40
johnxI wonder how hard it would be to bring the newer maptile picture storage system to the newest maemo-mapper13:41
*** Sho_ has joined #maemo13:41
*** eton has quit IRC13:44
*** beavis has joined #maemo13:45
*** eton_ has joined #maemo13:45
AStormjohnx, moderately easy13:47
AStormstill, the author opposes it13:47
AStormfor no real reason13:47
RST38hjohnx: what is wrong with the old one?13:47
* RST38h remembers it changing at least once13:47
johnxRST38h, the oldest one? with a bunch of tiny files?13:47
RST38hguess so13:48
johnxthere've been 3: tiny maptiles as pics, bigger maptiles as pics and an sqlite db13:48
RST38han obscure bug in an old version of the Symbian OS could allow an attacker to crash a target's mobile phone with a specially-formatted text message.13:48
RST38hjohnx: current one is the db?13:48
johnxand the one I like is the biggish maptiles as pics13:48
johnxbut it was a random fork by some guy who only made one patch to one version13:49
johnxstill, the speed improvement seems well worth it13:49
johnxmeh. saw it a while ago. is there an update to fix it?13:50
RST38hjohnx: What is the original author's reason for opposing it?13:50
RST38hThere is none13:50
johnxI think he likes the db solution13:50
johnxkeeps your card nice and clean13:50
RST38hWhat about storing bigger tiles in db?13:51
johnxas in joining the maptiles, then storing them in the db?13:51
johnxI dunno specifics13:52
AStormbut sqlite is stupid fsync abuser13:52
AStormany db that tries to do ACID using fsync is stupid13:53
AStormit is not an api that guarantees anything13:53
AStormin fact, Unix allows fsync to be noop13:53
AStormand ext filesystems batch fsyncs up to its commit time13:54
*** gnutonio has joined #maemo13:54
johnxthen maybe the answer is for fsync to be a noop :>13:54
AStormwhile xfs and reiserfs ignore it13:54
AStormalso, fsync is bad for multiuser systems13:55
AStorm(if implemented)13:55
*** housetier has quit IRC13:56
*** hannesw has quit IRC13:56
AStormdb people should be beaten with a posix stick :)13:56
AStormor a 1-ton unix manual13:57
*** krutt has quit IRC13:57
johnxlots of people need to be hit with the unix stick13:58
AStorme.g. emacs by default does fsync if backups are enabled13:59
AStormevil :>13:59
*** gpd has joined #maemo14:04
gpdmaemo-mapper 2.53 seems VERY slow to render maps on N800 - is it just me? takes 7-10 seconds to do a full screen pan!14:05
*** qwerty12_ has joined #maEMO14:06
gpdi deleted the database and tried on mmc versus /home/user - makes no difference14:06
*** Meiz_n810 has quit IRC14:08
AStormI don't recall any changes in rendering code14:08
AStormother than disabling bilinear smoothing14:09
gpdAStorm: what sort of speed do you get?14:09
AStormand switching rotation code to simple 15 degree14:09
AStormI have n81014:09
gpdI thought n800 and n810 were same spec processor?14:10
qwerty12_They are. The N800 was limited to 330MHZ in OS200714:10
gpdare there any optimisations that can be done at user level? eg. turning off rotation or something?14:10
*** gnuton has quit IRC14:10
gpdI am running latest OS2008 on the N800 with relatively clean install.14:11
gpdapart from installing sequentially from 2.2 upwards --- not sure what else i can do14:11
gpdany other tips?14:11
gpdi don't think it is just rendering - even downloading maps (5mbytes) is taking about 10 minutes!14:12
*** qwerty12 has quit IRC14:12
gpdi thought the map DB might be corrupt - but deleting it should have fixed that14:12
*** qwerty12_ is now known as qwerty1214:12
gpdi thought loading maps from the SD cards might be slower - but it doesn't seem to make much difference.14:13
gpdthe only other thing is that i have quite a lot of POI points - maybe 200 -- would that affect things?14:13
*** qwerty12 has quit IRC14:23
*** qwerty12_N800 has joined #mAeMo14:26
*** bilboed-tipi has joined #maemo14:30
*** murrayc has joined #maemo14:30
*** bilboed-tp is now known as Guest5944914:33
*** gnutonio is now known as Gnut[OFF]14:33
*** wms has joined #maemo14:37
*** bilboed-tipi is now known as bilboed-tp14:39
kulveis there an example how the extras-devel .install file should look like?14:40
kulvee.g. qt4 project seems to have this line there:14:40
kulvename = maemo Extras-Devell14:40
kulvewhich I guess adds a separate extras-devell repo..14:40
*** Guest59449 has quit IRC14:41
woglindekulve the moo.install file is only for packing14:41
woglindeit tells the debian packaging utils which files should be installed where14:42
kulveI think we are now discussing about the other .install file14:42
kulvei.e. maemo .install, not debian .install14:42
AStormthe repo one? dl one from gronmayer :)14:44
woglindekulve aehm this files seems to be generated automagicly14:44
woglindeI never defined something14:44
woglindein my app14:44
woglindeand its there14:44
*** lool has quit IRC14:44
*** lool has joined #maemo14:45
qwerty12_N800<qwerty12_N800> kulve, *cough*14:45
kulveqwerty12_N800: yes, I copied one from there as an example. Thanks.14:45
kulvenow I see..14:46
kulveso that file in that repo is autogenerated?14:46
kulveand I should point to it..14:46
*** benh has quit IRC14:46
woglindekulve when you upload a package to devel-extras14:46
woglindeyou do not need extra .install file14:47
kulveyeah, I noticed14:47
woglindepeople who use extras-devel already have the installer line14:47
qwerty12_N800Well, strictly speaking, if you are adding a package to the maemo catalog, it should only install from  the extras repo14:47
kulvehow does the statistics -stuff work? I have an entry in and I have uploaded the packages to extras-devel. But how do I say which packages belong to that entry?14:48
qwerty12_N800I think you only define one package as part of the unix name14:49
kulvethe project name is "ogg" and the debian package name is "ogg-support"..14:50
qwerty12_N800the unix name on your application listing should be the same as the package name, i think it says that when adding the entry14:51
kulvethen it wouldn't match the page..14:52
kulve"Please use the same name as you use for your debian package."14:52
kulveI'll change it..14:52
*** housetier has joined #maemo14:55
*** zap has joined #maemo14:59
*** woglinde has quit IRC15:02
*** Zakkm has joined #Maemo15:02
*** Zakkm has quit IRC15:05
*** tekojo has quit IRC15:11
t_s_ohmm, running android on a netbook, cute15:16
AStormmeh, netbooks are made obsolete with n81015:17
* GAN800 shudders at upgrade misinformation.15:17
AStormand a good desktop-laptop15:17
GAN800apt-get dist-upgrade is one quick way to reboot loop land15:17
lcukwhat if netbooks all come with touchscreens?15:17
AStormGAN800, hm?15:17
AStormGAN800, not in diablo15:17
GAN800Yes, in Diablo.15:18
GAN800AStorm, please don't tell people it's safe.15:18
AStormlcuk, they don't, and n810 is still better15:18
GAN800Because it's not.15:18
AStormGAN800, did it, works15:18
AStormyou must have some dodgy repo on15:18
GAN800Not with the SDK repo15:18
AStormyour fail15:18
* RST38h moos at lcuk woefully 15:18
GAN800Which Fring and others add in their .installs15:18
GAN800Not my fail15:19
AStormbad people15:19
AStormstill yours15:19
lcukAStorm, agreed, carrying round and using a bigger device feels wrong - i feel like a midget when i pickup my tabletpc and try to use it like my nokia15:19
AStormdisable it when not needed15:19
RST38hlcuk: May I tell you a story? =)15:19
* alterego yawns15:19
GAN800AStorm, I'm so glad it works for you, but I don't want to clean up the mess when some newbie who tried Fring follows your 'advice'15:19
AStormlcuk, and a powerful laptop for times when you need power15:19
AStormGAN800, I didn't advise it15:20
GAN800AStorm, you claimed it was safe.15:20
GAN800It is not.15:20
lcukAStorm, i never need power when on the move15:20
lcukof course RST38h15:20
GAN800I'd ask you not to make the same claim in the future15:20
GAN800and also to not assume things about what I have and have not done. :)15:21
RST38hlcuk: When I was 16 years old I wanted to write an operating syste,15:21
Stskeepsjohnx: how's the start up thing going?15:21
RST38hlcuk: Mighty and powerful, with windowed console output, unified device API etc15:21
*** andre___ has quit IRC15:22
RST38hlcuk: And even wrote about 30% of it before the tape wore out and took all my work away15:22
*** andre___ has joined #maemo15:22
*** Zakkm has joined #Maemo15:23
RST38hlcuk: About 10 years later, the topic came up in a conversation with a good friend, we talked about it in details, what we would have in a modern os, then pulled out a laptop, and started writing15:23
RST38hlcuk: In about 3 hours one of us suddenly asked "And why the fuck are we doing it?"15:23
RST38hlcuk: And we stopped. The idea still comes up every now and then, but one of us always reiterates the question and, mercifully, kills it dead until the next time.15:24
alteregoDid you base your OS on a pre-existing kernel?15:25
RST38halterego: There weren't such a sthing as a pre existing kernel at that time15:25
RST38hIt was 1989-1990, in USSR15:25
alteregoI didn't realise it was in the dark ages :P15:25
derfSo you did this in the 60's?15:26
derfBSD and Mach have been around for a long time.15:26
johnxStskeeps, packaged. wanna see if I can get a first-run-wizard working15:26
RST38hderf: not on an 8080-based system with 32kB RAM, TV for output and a walkman for input15:26
RST38hBut it is all pretty much beside the point.15:26
*** chandoo has joined #maemo15:27
*** Stslaptop has quit IRC15:27
*** lmoura has joined #maemo15:28
*** pupnik has joined #maemo15:28
lcukRST38h, i dont want an OS.  i want fast fluid applications on my tablet15:28
johnxmy only advice is: follow the Unix way and everything else will work itself out15:29
lcukagreed entirely15:29
johnxI think splitting it into separate parts will help a lot with popularity15:30
johnxI also think I'm going to go to the store and buy a box of cookies15:30
*** chandoo- has joined #maemo15:30
johnxback in 6min15:30
johnxer...maybe more like 10min actually. doctor said no running for a while :(15:31
AStormUnix way is unfortunately ignored a lot nowadays15:32
AStormas in many small tools15:32
lcukjohnx, for when you get back : how can i do as quick and simple as i want when the OS wont let me?15:33
RST38hlcuk: you only have ONE application. you have to figure out for yourself what this application is.15:33
RST38hlcuk: And stop there.15:34
* RST38h obviously check out iTT :)15:34
*** lmoura has quit IRC15:34
*** Zakkm has quit IRC15:35
lcukRST38h, i have ideas which span many applications and simply lack the knowledge to push the improvements into the core.15:36
lcukand from a purely personal perspective, I've got what I need already : a base to write anything I want from15:38
* alterego wonders if he'll ever be finished tweaking the packaging system.15:40
johnxlcuk, ah, and here's where the unix philosophy makes you and RST38h happy: make a small tool that does one thing well15:40
johnxif you need more than one thing, make another tool15:40
alteregoActually that's not lcuk's philosophy :P15:41
lcukyeah johnx, ive got hundreds os stand alone projects here, some more developer than others15:41
johnxalterego, not yet :)15:41
lcukhundreds of ^15:41
RST38hlcuk: Choose ONE.15:41
lcuki hate having everything in one bundle15:41
alteregoliqbase is one application :P15:41
RST38hAnd finish it.15:41
lcukit makes it a nightmare to think about15:41
lcukRST38h, i fuffing cant without a library15:41
lcukif i had a library i could make a tiny liqsketch and finish it15:42
johnxand hence the proliferation of libraries in the Unix world :)15:42
lcukuntil then everything is under the same umbrella and gets improved together15:42
johnxand the proliferation of apps that include their own mail client in the windows world15:42
lcuksame with linux isnt it15:42
RST38hlcuk: You already have the code, make it a library.15:43
RST38hWhat exactly is the problem?15:43
lcukif i had been happy with using gtk and cairo and could get kinetic i wouldv, and ive hated every single step ive taken from the day i started on the YUV implementation, but the simple fact is the path is there15:43
johnxlcuk, it is apparent in some apps. which ones are you thinking of? open office?15:44
lcukhow many webbrowsers are we at currently?15:44
AStormlcuk, heck, I had to change my nifty fast update to a sligtly slower one15:45
gladiacbtw. is ther are libv4l available for maemo?15:45
AStormbecause stupid gtkImage doesn't do image replacement properly15:45
johnxlcuk, for the most part though: they're just web browsers. sure linux has more than one of the same tool, but it's not a tool out to solve all your problems15:45
RST38hlcuk: Then just live without gtk and cairo15:45
AStormjohnx, not browsers15:45
RST38hlcuk: Use what you have.15:46
AStormthey actually embed IE or OE15:46
lcukAStorm, but the book reader wouldnt work15:46
johnxAStorm, nature of the beast I've decided15:46
*** pupnik_ has quit IRC15:46
* RST38h is exhausted by fighting ALSA. Why is all this grotesque non-working shit there?15:46
lcukif mplayer used only the normal methods it wouldnt play movies15:46
RST38hWhy can't these people just give me a ring buffer?15:47
AStormit could15:47
AStormring? no, it's a linear fb15:47
RST38hI do not want their underrun handling. I do not want their reporting functions, their write functions, etc.15:47
AStormyou can't have a ring buffer, only a linear one15:47
RST38hAStorm: ALSA has nothing to do with fb15:47
AStormah that15:47
RST38hAStorm: it is a freaking audio API15:48
AStormDirectX uses ring buffrs15:48
AStormit sucks :P15:48
AStormyou n*don't* want an unknown size buffer15:48
AStormand callback api is fine15:48
AStorm(a'la jack)15:48
*** chandoo has quit IRC15:48
johnxlcuk, it's not about using the normal methods or not. I'm not talking about dropping YUV rendering or even using 3rd party libs. All I mean is what you're already planning on: factor out libliqbase and make liqsketch, liqreader, etc separate apps15:49
RST38h"Comparing to OSS API, ALSA API has inteligent ring buffer management for the mmaped access. Application must start snd_pcm_mmap_begin() to obtain the location where to store / get samples to / from and when work is finished with given sample region, snd_pcm_mmap_commit() must be called to move sample pointers in the ring buffer. "15:49
lcukjohnx, yes that is the roadmap 100%15:49
AStormRST38h, what they don't tell is that most cards can't do mmap access15:49
RST38hFucking idiots, why do I even need this "location" if it has no relation to the actual ring buffer?15:49
AStormand dmix 100% can't15:49
AStormso ignore it15:50
RST38hAStorm: They are not doing real direct access15:50
RST38hAStorm: It is not really mmap access, it is some temp buffer they have got inside alsa15:50
AStormthat's why you have to write some blocks15:50
AStormand commit15:50
AStormthen alse cuts it to blocks and sends to soundcard15:51
RST38hI do not have a sound card. That is the funniest thing.15:52
AStormone bonus is that you don't theoretically have to care about block size15:52
RST38hA have a normal DMAble ring buffer in sdram15:52
AStormstill have to commit15:52
lcukRST38h, back when i started, the "linux way" made it very complex to build things due to the amount of knowledge required. i have been happily tucked away inside VB for years now insulated from the command line and with a very quick simple way to create a new project.  the closest to that i could get with liqbase was to just add another standalone module to liqbase and add it to the menu with liqXXXXX_run(); calls15:52
AStormpart of api15:52
AStormcommit every some bytes and you'll be fine15:52
RST38hAStorm: I am not even using mmap api because it is useless15:53
AStormpointless, not useless15:53
RST38hAStorm: The problem is that even normal (non-mmap) API clicks and hangs after a few restarts15:53
AStormit can be used15:53
RST38hAnd nobody gives me access to the hardware15:53
RST38hAll I have got is a buggy ALSA implementation15:53
AStormwhat is the device you're using?15:54
johnxwait, are we talking about alsa on the tablet?15:54
AStormtablet has fine alsa support15:54
alteregogstreamre ftw!15:54
AStormworking too15:54
RST38hjohnx: No. STMP37xx chip.15:54
johnxAStorm, that's a nice dream15:54
AStorma DAC15:54
AStormjohnx, no, really15:54
AStormin new linux-omap15:54
johnxAStorm, aaah, I meant in 2.6.2115:55
AStorm2.6.24-omap  had working alsa last I tried15:55
*** danilocesar has joined #maemo15:55
alteregoAStorm: he's not saying it doesn't work. He's saying he doesn't like it's API15:55
RST38h"working ALSA" is a vague description15:55
AStormmeh, api's ok15:55
johnxAStorm, I thought you meant Nokia's alsa->DSP was "fine"15:55
RST38hALSA API has dozens of functions15:55
AStormyes, and the kitchen sink15:56
AStormand many advanced features have to be tested for15:56
alteregoRST38h: if you're that unhappy with ALSA, write something better ..15:56
*** housetier has quit IRC15:56
derfYes, clearly Linux needs another audio API.15:56
AStormat least ALSA is not lowest common denominator api15:57
AStormyou can use all features of a card with it15:57
RST38halterego: I have no choice.15:57
RST38hALSA is what I have got15:57
AStormunlike OSS 415:57
RST38hderf: Linux needs a massacre or two15:57
AStormor certain other high level apis like PortAudio15:57
johnxwoo! it's a massacre!15:57
RST38hderf: With people writing "another audio APIs" first in line for execution15:58
*** rsalveti has quit IRC15:58
*** rsalveti has joined #maemo15:59
AStormRST38h, hmm?15:59
alteregoI must have compiled these packages a hundred times now ^_^15:59
AStormyes, we need one and only API15:59
AStormALSA is fit for the task15:59
AStormOSS should die :>16:00
RST38hAStorm: You already have one and only API - /dev/dsp16:01
AStormit sucks16:01
RST38hAStorm: If you really dislike it, use BSD's /dev/pcm or even Sun's /dev/audio.16:01
AStormprovides no latency info for one16:01
RST38hAStorm: it does16:01
AStormno idea of buffering16:01
RST38hAStorm: orly? =)16:01
AStormit has to die16:01
AStormyou can't code any non-trivial audio app with these16:02
RST38hAStorm: I mean, when you tell /dev/dsp the buffer size and the number of segments, it is not buffering?16:02
AStormyou do, but then you don't know anything about underruns16:02
RST38hAStorm: add an ioctl. ONE ioctl, not ten16:04
AStormten? since when you need 10 ioctls in alsa?16:06
AStormno, you don't have to implement every feature it has16:06
* AStorm needs a nap16:07
*** housetier has joined #maemo16:07
*** GAN800 has quit IRC16:08
*** lmoura has joined #maemo16:09
*** kabtoffe has quit IRC16:11
*** murrayc_ has joined #maemo16:11
RST38hALSA actually has more than ten16:12
bakarathow exactly do the POI work in maemo mapper?16:14
bakarati entered a few lists containing the speed traps for different speed limits in my country16:14
bakaratthey seem to be loaded, but i can't "see" them?16:14
bakaratis there a way to show them by icon or something?16:14
bakarator do you get an auditive reminder?16:14
*** kabtoffe has joined #maemo16:16
*** kabtoffe has quit IRC16:17
bakarato wait, that's seems that the POI are placed wrong, they show up near adis abeba whilst they should be in western europe :p16:17
bakarati used garmin csv file of the locations and "gpsbabel" to convert16:18
bakaratmaybe it mixed up long & lat or something?16:18
*** Stslaptop has joined #maemo16:20
* RST38h seems to have coerced ALSA into the ring buffer mode16:24
*** kabtoffe has joined #maemo16:24
RST38hurgh, what a messy piece of shit :( like the old OSS API having a cancer.16:24
*** eocanha has quit IRC16:28
*** hannesw has joined #maemo16:33
*** mardi__ has joined #maemo16:36
*** danilocesar has quit IRC16:43
ShadowJKRST38h, yes16:49
*** matt_c has quit IRC16:51
ShadowJKSun's /dev/audio is nice16:51
ShadowJKand it does give you buffering and latency16:52
ShadowJKWith alsa it's a bit of a hit and miss whether you get usable buffering info :-)16:52
*** _matthias_ has joined #maemo16:52
johnxalsa supports a wider variety of hardware devices though. I always imagined that was the reason it was more complicated16:53
johnxsuch as A2DP headphones16:53
*** hannesw has quit IRC16:54
RST38hHighly localized aurora borealis:
RST38h(in case you wonder, no, not real aurora)16:54
RST38hjohnx: it's not the reason16:54
*** hannesw has joined #maemo16:54
RST38hjohnx: The reason is that it is designed by people with asperger's syndrome16:55
johnxso out of curiosity: how would one sanely have a2dp headphones provide a /dev/audio interface?16:55
*** hannesw has quit IRC16:55
johnxRST38h, might want to watch comments like that...16:55
RST38hjohnx: normally - you open it, write to it, the driver manages sending what you write to the headphones, with compression16:56
*** acydlord has quit IRC16:56
RST38hjohnx: Well, it was just a statement of a fact16:56
*** hannesw has joined #maemo16:56
johnxRST38h, some people might take that the wrong way16:56
RST38hjohnx: Let'em16:57
johnxalright: fuck you :)16:57
RST38hHehe =)16:57
ShadowJKThe best way of getting half-working alsa support into your app, is to become big enough that an alsa developer comes along and corrects your code16:57
ShadowJKBecause you're unlikely to figure it out by staring at the docs16:57
RST38hjohnx: But in this particular case you have obviously got someone REALLY concentrating on the API design to the point where all other things (including common sense) are ignored16:58
Stskeepsheh, know the feeling16:58
johnxRST38h, trying to justify what you just said, just makes you look more ignorant16:58
johnxRST38h, and as for a2dp: you want sound to go into the kernel interface, get passed up into userspace, have the sbc encoding run on it, then back into the kernel for transmission?17:00
RST38hjohnx: I want sound processing stay in the kernel17:01
Stskeepsjohnx: there's some merit to what he says though.. with aspergers, it is -very- easy to drown in the details (i have it myself so), and the end results can be horrendous if not balanced with other developers/end users :P17:01
RST38hjohnx: And no, I am not "justifying" what I said, I am explaining the basis for my assumption17:01
ShadowJKyou make it support only sample format A2DP :-)17:02
ShadowJKthe /dev/audio device for bluetooth steroe headset17:02
johnxShadowJK, and then every app that wants to play sound includes an sbc encoder?17:03
RST38hAlso an idea - this way you write sbc encoded data into the device17:03
johnxwow...what a killer idea. I get to wait for everyone to include sbc encoding into their apps before I can use my headphones?17:03
RST38hjohnx: you can run an sbc encoder process that reads data from a socket17:03
RST38hcall it /dev/headset or something17:04
*** _matthias_ has quit IRC17:05
*** mardi__ has quit IRC17:05
johnxand could I expect to ln -s /dev/headset /dev/audio and have things just work?17:05
ShadowJKalsa is great in pretending to be transparent, but unfortunately it's not :(17:05
RST38hnot if you want devices for both plain audio and sbc audio17:06
RST38hShadowJK: 2/3 of it does not appear to work at all, transparently or not17:06
ShadowJKI still have to access the hw directly in alsa and not through 'default' pcm, to get accurate usable timing info17:06
*** hannesw has quit IRC17:07
johnxpretend I'm a user: I want my headphones to work without rewriting every sound producing app I use to support my headphones17:07
*** rsalveti has quit IRC17:07
RST38hjohnx: if you are a user, you do not really care whether it happens through ALSA or not.17:07
ShadowJKAtleast they fixed the thing where they did fork() in libalsa and you ended up with random processes all over, which then blocked all sound when they eventually fell over17:07
RST38hSo, no, this example won't fly17:07
ShadowJKFrom a user point of view, wrangling alsa to do anything is a pain. And if the distro sets it up for you, then it doesn't matter what sits behind it :-)17:08
RST38hShadowJK: Don't scare me like that - random kernel hangups I have got today are really sufficient =)17:08
*** hannesw has joined #maemo17:08
johnxRST38h, you really think people will be rewriting all their audio player code every time a strange and different piece of sound hardware appears17:09
johnxthat strikes me as the wrong level to do that at17:09
RST38hjohnx: I really think there is a way to connect your a2dp headset using standard, lightweight /dev/dsp API, without resorting to something like ALSA17:09
RST38hThat is all I think17:09
RST38hAs to ALSA, I haven't seen many developers using ALSA APIs directly17:10
ShadowJKWell that's effectively what you have to do today anyway, the alsa API is too complex for programmers to write "proper" code for, so whenever something new comes along in ALSA, random apps break and the alsa people say the apps' alsa code is "broken", then you have to wait for someone to fix that17:10
alteregogstreamer ftw!17:10
johnxRST38h, I'll give you that. even the pulseaudio guys seem to be steering people in that direction17:10
ShadowJKLike when fedora introduced pulseaudio, random things breaking here and there17:10
infobotjohnx meant: RST38h, I'll give you that. even the alsa guys seem to be steering people in that direction17:11
*** Guysoft422 has joined #maemo17:11
ShadowJKgoing through pulseaudio straight is tolerable, going alsa->pulseaudio and the timing and buffer reporting granularity goes up a few magnitudes... Which makes VoIP kinda funny17:11
* ShadowJK remembers skype didn't work very well17:12
ShadowJKOf course, skype's alsa code was "broken", they said17:12
ShadowJKWhen the next great thing comes along and embeds itself in the middle of the path to the soundboard, I bet there will be yet more "broken" apps..17:13
RST38hThat is why all these alsas, pulseaudios, esounds, etc etc should just die17:14
johnxso we can move onto the next great thing?17:14
johnxyet another sound API embedded into the kernel?17:15
RST38hTake /dev/audio (or dev/pcm or core dev/dsp functionality), add a few critical ioctls and leave it be17:15
RST38hno, just reuse the original Ap17:15
ShadowJKbesides, OSS has a ALSA compatibility layer now, imagine that :-)17:15
ShadowJK(run ALSA apps on OSS)17:15
ShadowJKThe OSS guy did it because people said it was impossible17:16
johnxso from my example: will OSS have A2DP drivers?17:16
StslaptopShadowJK: he sounds about as insane as me..17:16
alteregoIf you keep using broken things then they'll never get replaced.17:16
ShadowJKthere are no unbroken things17:16
RST38hof course ythe most amusing is position #7 ;)17:17
alteregoskype-installer and gizmo-installer really annoy me.17:17
alteregoWhy do they have to make the core meta package depend on them. I don't want them cluttering up my app menu >:(17:18
johnxthat's a pretty big "other" category O_o17:18
johnxalterego, then install skype and remove it :)17:18
ShadowJKjohnx, it's not surprising really17:18
ShadowJKPeople have tons of functioning SNES boxen left :-)17:18
alteregoI just deleted  the .desktop files.17:18
*** hannesw has quit IRC17:19
johnxnot surprising, just ... maybe they could have expanded the list to 10 so we could see some of them17:19
qwerty12_N800alterego, I like to dpkg -L them and delete the files manually. Being from the uk, you won't have noticed they annoying rhapsody-installer package too...17:19
johnxheh...had a friend who worked for Real for a while :)17:19
*** thopiekar has joined #maemo17:20
Stslaptopjohnx: so what was packaged btw?17:20
* RST38h remembers installing Real on a Windows PC17:21
johnxStslaptop, that startx init script + a hook to run a first boot wizard if /etc/default/autologin isn't found17:21
RST38hThe thing is almost like a virus or a trojan, judging from the amount of stuff it dumps into C:\Windows and C:\Windows\System3217:21
* johnx looks for a zenity maemo source package ...17:22
johnxextras I suppose...17:22
qwerty12_N800there isn't one in extras(-devel)17:22
RST38ha moment17:23
RST38hI do not think they have released anything officially yet17:23
RST38hOk, courtesy of Bundyo:
johnxah, win :D17:24
thopiekarcould some one please help me with a little python - "data read and write" problem?17:25
thopiekarI get this output on eclipse (plus pyDev):17:25
thopiekarTraceback (most recent call last):17:25
thopiekar  File "/home/thopiekar/Projekte/ganymede/esdk/trunk/esdk-inst/", line 698, in <module>17:25
thopiekar    init() # lade das Programm17:25
thopiekar  File "/home/thopiekar/Projekte/ganymede/esdk/trunk/esdk-inst/", line 691, in init17:25
thopiekar    loadcfg()17:25
thopiekar  File "/home/thopiekar/Projekte/ganymede/esdk/trunk/esdk-inst/", line 77, in loadcfg17:25
thopiekar    cfile.writelines(cfgdb)17:25
thopiekarIOError: [Errno 9] Bad file descriptor17:25
johnxqwerty12_N800, it looks like pastebin...but I think this is actually IRC17:25
Stslaptopjohnx: sure it needs to be maemoized?17:25
andre___hmm. got problems building fremantle alpha (Runtime Environment only) in scratchbox: - anybody having an idea how to get better debug output?17:26
qwerty12_N800johnx, call it a hint :)17:26
johnxStslaptop, it wants to pull in libgnomecanvas and can't17:26
thopiekarsry.. you are right i had to pastbin the out put too ;)17:26
Stslaptopjohnx: ah.17:26
johnxI assume we'll be using it for other stuff17:26
Stslaptopit wont get gnomecanvas why?17:27
johnxlet me pull on the dependency tree. one sec17:27
johnxzenity -> libgnomecanvas2-0 -> libgail18 -> libgtk2.0-0 = 2.14.5-1ubuntu217:28
*** Sho_ has quit IRC17:28
Stslaptopthere's a gail in maemo17:28
johnxno idea why it *need* that exact libgtk17:28
johnxdoes *it* have critical maemo-only stuff?17:28
Stslaptopnot sure17:29
* johnx looks17:29
johnx1.5 years of Nokia patches17:30
* johnx kries17:30
alteregoWoo, SDK+ RC2! :)17:30
alteregoI might try and install that later.17:31
Stslaptopjohnx: always possible to rebuild libgail towards libgtk17:32
johnxalso, nokia is on gail 1.18 and ubuntu on 2.1417:33
johnxso I'll rebuild Ubuntu's gail and see if I'm very lucky17:33
Stslaptopwe need to do something about libgconf2-6 too17:34
johnxit is an interesting thing though: Nokia's gail drops support for gnome canvas, Ubuntu's doesn't. if I pull it into the first-boot-wizard I'll probably get a ton of gnome stuff17:34
Stslaptopyeah but you said zenity -> libgnomecanvas -> libgail17:35
johnxwell, ubuntu's zenity.17:35
johnxI imagine Maemo's zenity doesn't need gnomecanvas17:35
johnxah, though the latest ubuntu libgail doesn't pull in gnomecanvas17:36
johnxok, maybe not too bad. I'll see17:36
Stslaptopsometimes you don't blame nokia for wanting a seperate distro..17:37
*** b-man has joined #maemo17:37
Stslaptopwhere they can cut dependancies left and right17:37
b-manhello, jhonx17:37
Stslaptopb-man: status?17:37
johnxhey b-man. any luck with X?17:37
johnxthough SDHC cards are cheap, and as long as the added deps don't take up too much more RAM I'm inclined to be closer to the desktop at the cost of disk space17:38
johnxand having said that no one will ever hire me for embedded work ever again :>17:39
*** gnuton has joined #maemo17:39
b-manno luck with x yet.    stslaptop; i'm just about done with the 'slimed down' installer, i just need to make a deb.17:39
johnxwould it make sense to upload a quick auto-startx that depends on the existence of /etc/default/autologin ?17:40
Stslaptopb-man: any X problems can probably be directly attributed to not using fb_update_mode auto17:40
Stslaptopdepends on what /etc/default/autologin means?17:40
b-manoh, ok thanks!17:41
johnxcat /etc/default/autologin: PREFERED_USER = johnx17:41
Stslaptopjohnx: fair enough, if it's a first-run thing17:41
johnxI mean, that's the stand-in for "first-run" so other people aren't waiting on a first-run wizard17:42
johnxwe can keep doing what we're doing but move startx into init instead of rc.local17:42
Stskeepsjohnx: yeah, sounds good17:42
Stskeeps(your suggestion at first)17:42
johnxyeah, developed delusions of grandeur after that o_o;17:43
* Stskeeps is trying to simulate cow collars. yay :P17:44
*** matt_c has joined #maemo17:44
johnxI misread that at first17:44
*** Guysoft422 has quit IRC17:45
*** ignacius has quit IRC17:45
b-manit looks like i'm missing /etc/dfault/autologin.17:45
johnxthen you need the package I'm about to release :)17:46
b-manoh, you could have told me that :)17:47
*** murrayc_ has quit IRC17:47
johnxI did :P17:47
*** roue has joined #maemo17:48
thopiekarcould someone please tell me how to fix that?17:48
thopiekarthe code ( and it's output (
b-manstupid me, this is why i like to have a little coffie before i join irc in the morning. ;p17:48
johnxno worries :)17:49
johnxshould that be created by the installer or should I just assume it will be 'user' for now?17:49
Stskeepswell we dont really have an installer17:50
johnxs/installer/thing that makes the images17:50
Stskeepsit's an imager, it debootstraps and unpacks files, and adds in very few things (xorg, fstab)17:50
*** mlpug has quit IRC17:51
johnxsigh...if it doesn't exist I'll just set PREFERED_USER=user17:51
* alterego catches up on the Christmas lectures.17:51
Stskeepsi think you should run the first-run thing if /etc/default/autologin doesn't exist, after wizard is done, it writes to /etc/default/autologin17:51
Stskeepsor something17:51
johnxright, which will happen when I wrangle zenity and write first-run-wizard...but for right now17:52
*** setanta has joined #maemo17:52
Stskeepsuser, i guess :P if its useradd'd17:52
johnxheh. I'll just add it to the top of the script for now. god forgive me17:52
*** qwerty12_N800 has quit IRC17:54
*** qwerty12 has joined #maEMO17:54
Stslaptopwb qwerty1217:55
qwerty12thanks Stslaptop17:55
*** Gnut[OFF] has quit IRC17:56
b-manStslaptop; how can i make fb_update_mode_auto run automaticly at startup?, from something other than an init script?18:01
Stslaptopb-man: fb_update_mode auto, not _auto :P18:02
RST38hkinda pointless but still...18:03
*** b-man has quit IRC18:04
Stslaptopdalvik under something else or?18:04
* johnx predicts a wave of Chinese PMP/PDA's running Android18:04
RST38hjohnx: already happening as we speak18:05
johnxStslaptop, just android on x8618:05
RST38hin fact, if it dethrones WinMobile, I will be happy18:05
*** madhav has joined #maemo18:05
StslaptopRST38h: i'm with you on that one18:05
johnxwon't be able to write emulators for it though :)18:05
RST38hwho cares18:06
RST38has long as WinMobile dies...18:06
johnx:D since you know, you *sell* emulators...18:06
RST38hIt is one segment I am willing to sacrifice, especially considering that I still can't make myself port latest versions to WinMobile18:07
johnxwell, then. good riddance indeed18:08
johnxand google will get a ton of young Chinese programmers working on android as their first platform18:08
johnxso any bets on when android starts showing up on cheap/free w/ contract phones in the US/EU? :)18:10
RST38hOnce Motorola releases its first handsets18:10
RST38hUnless Motorola does not live to that date financially18:10
johnxwas about to post "ahaha. as long as they're around do that"18:10
qwerty12When will a real phone company do that rather18:11
RST38hWell, it is not like they have got other chances beside Android18:11
RST38hqwerty: #define real phone company18:11
*** booiiing has quit IRC18:11
qwerty12RST38h, Nokia, Sony Ericsson etc. I'm not a fan of Motorola phones.18:12
Stslaptopqwerty12: there was an android comment from SE18:12
alteregoThe G1 is ugly ..18:12
qwerty12Stslaptop, cool :)18:12
johnxNokia, never. SE, maybe18:12
* qwerty12 googles :)18:12
qwerty12SE should just let UIQ burn though18:13
*** Grackle has quit IRC18:13
Stslaptopi wouldn't mind my SE phone if it didn't continually die when in my pocket18:13
RST38hqwerty: Well, Motorola is pretty real phone company (or has been)18:14
alteregoI'd like to know when Nokia are opening up Symbian, I've been waiting ages :)18:14
RST38hHTC produces phones but it is hardly a real phone company18:14
Stslaptopbut i knew that i had spent too much time with my tablet when i tried to use touch functionality on my SE phone..18:14
RST38halterego: They have opened it already18:14
glassqwerty12: uiq is just burned already18:14
RST38halterego: Annual membership fee to get open Symbian is $1500.18:15
qwerty12RST38h, yeah, my words are more opinionated (I think motorola suck dick and their phones too)18:15
glassqwerty12: afaik they're keeping a small symbian lab though(se)18:15
qwerty12glass, whee!18:15
alteregoDamnit, I thought it was free.18:15
RST38hThat is Symbian's idea of "open"18:15
* johnx imagines SE sucking their phones18:15
alteregoNokias ..18:15
glasswell symbians idea of open is that manufacturers can take it18:15
RST38hglass: What for? I thought they dumped and forgot?18:15
glassRST38h: for future phones for the unified symbian platform18:15
RST38hjohnx: Japanese or Nordic part of SE? =)18:16
glassnot really trade secrets if you read trade mags/sites/rumours18:16
RST38hglass: But they do not have any plans for these?18:16
orifice_work1since getting an n810 all my lcd screens have seen an increase in finger prints and poke marks18:16
glassRST38h: real plans? dunno if they know themselfs even18:16
johnxRST38h, maybe at a high-profile international meeting?18:16
johnxorifice_work1, yeah, I poked my desktop monitor the other day18:17
glasssamsungs s60's have been getting more available globally no though18:17
RST38hjohnx: Actually, sucking an SE phone from both ends ...mmm...18:17
orifice_work1what would a convenient key be to map to TAB on the n810 keyboard ? I'm thinking right shift.  I never remember that it's actually there anyways.18:17
RST38hglass: Samsung will run anything on their phones, if they see profit18:17
glassRST38h: thats samsungs problem actually18:17
glassRST38h: and motors.. spoon in every soup18:17
RST38hglass: They are very cynical like all asian guys18:17
*** orifice_work1 is now known as orifice-work18:17
johnxa low-end, durable as hell samsung android phone would be kind of nice18:18
glassnot motrs, motos18:18
RST38hglass: SE - I do not think so18:18
glassRST38h: se's been in trouble for years18:18
RST38hjohnx: ah just wait and you will get your wish18:18
glassRST38h: they lagged so much with uiq318:18
RST38hglass: Well, that is of their own making18:18
glassRST38h: and xperia seems just a branded oem wm phone18:18
*** rjelari has joined #maemo18:18
RST38hglass: They did not fix bugs, did not market, and generally did not care18:18
glassRST38h: yeah, it's their fault18:18
johnxreally, people can say that samsung phones aren't cool, but they *work* as *phones*18:19
orifice-worklcuk: cool thanks18:19
lcukread the comments as well18:19
glassRST38h: i'm not defending them :) just stating the facts18:19
RST38hjohnx: correct18:19
orifice-worksamsung's hardware design has come a long way in the last 3 years18:19
RST38hglass: Well, it is kinda known fact. And it is way more obvious if you look at Sony's media players18:19
RST38hglass: I won't even mention the PS3 :)18:19
glassRST38h: se has seemed pretty seperated from just s18:20
johnxbeen using samsung phones from 2001ish to 2006ish. left very little to be desired hardware-wise for a dumbphone18:20
RST38hglass: But the problem exists across all Sony subdivisions18:20
glasssamsung seems to have many teams doing sw for their phones18:20
johnxsony needs to talk to itself18:20
glassadds up costs18:20
RST38hglass: Same with Motorola, until recently18:21
glassRST38h: yeah18:21
orifice-workglass: I thought that too.  It seems every new device has a new sw UI team18:21
glassRST38h: when looking at profit numbers, it seems like a shitty tactic18:21
RST38hjohnx: just fire all the old fat guys in suits18:21
RST38hjohnx: starting with legal department.18:21
glassorifice-work: and they used to just bolt on a java vm that they didn't customize at all, had different t9 and all weird shit(samsung)18:21
RST38hglass: I am sure if it were shitty tactic, Samsung would not do it18:22
*** b-man has joined #maemo18:22
johnxRST38h, I think it's partially endemic to their massive size, current structure and also to a certain extent on Japanese business culture18:22
glassRST38h: i've been hearing that reasoning for a lot of shitty things lately :D18:22
RST38hglass: The real reason may be that hiring a lot of Chinese/Koreans is cheap and gives you government subsidies18:22
glassRST38h: but it's bad profit on bottom line18:22
glassRST38h: on q revenues and profit %18:22
RST38hglass: is there a document to showcase that?18:23
glassRST38h: nokia has(at least untill recenty) the best profit % per phone18:23
RST38hbecause their per phone prices are inflated.18:23
glassRST38h: just read the next quarterly briefs etc18:23
RST38hjohnx: true18:23
glassso what, they make profit, making profi means they survive18:23
* RST38h goes to check out the next movie on tv18:24
RST38hMr Bean's vacation. Mhm.18:25
glassdisaster movie18:25
Stslaptopoh boy. bollywood is going to remake 'back to the future'18:25
Stslaptopthis'll be interesting.18:25
glassStslaptop: haha whaaaat18:25
RST38hSts: Funny, I have just glimpsed Bollywood remake of Superman on TV18:25
RST38hSts: And yes, it was as bad as it sounds18:26
johnxbollywood BTTF? O_o Can't decide whether to be excited or filled with dread18:26
Stslaptopjohnx: what bttf really needs is a lot of singing and dancing, obviously.18:26
johnxthat's what I've always said!18:27
RST38hSpeaking of Bollywood:
RST38h(try not to eat while opening this link)18:27
johnxright when McFly is peeping in that window, that's when we need an epic musical number! or maybe during the skateboard chase seen18:27
StslaptopRST38h: hindi 3-d is hillarious18:28
*** z72ka_ntb has joined #maemo18:28
lcukjohnx, back to the future was already a musical18:28
lcuk"power of love" :D18:28
RST38hSts: I like Jaani Dushman better, the one with the blue-skinned guy18:28
sp3000benny lava!18:28
Stslaptopdonnie darko done by bollywood could be interesting18:29
*** rsalveti has joined #maemo18:29
Stslaptopcouldn't possibly get less bizarre ;)18:29
RST38hSts: Why not go for StarWars?18:29
johnxok, now that would actually be kind of neat18:29
*** booiiing has joined #maemo18:29
*** ShadowJK has quit IRC18:31
*** ShadowJK has joined #maemo18:31
* Stslaptop is personally waiting for 'the time travellers wife' to come out. brilliant book.18:31
lcukRST38h, george lucas stops it18:32
johnxyeah, he's the only one who's allowed to mame star wars18:32
Stskeepsexcept for those chinese subtitle translators..18:33
RST38hlcuk: The idea is to make Lucas kill himself when he sees the trailer18:33
RST38hlcuk: Or have a fit.18:33
johnxRST38h, if he didn't kill himself after seeing his own new version of a new hope I don't think bollywood-ization will be enough18:33
lcukkinda like how a little bit of my childhood died when i saw this
Stskeepsjohnx: off topic, so what will you have the first run wizard ask? username? real name?18:34
*** Andy80 has joined #maemo18:34
lcuk(though its kinda cool)18:34
johnxStskeeps, yeah, maybe tablet name?18:34
Stskeepstrue, that too18:34
johnxideas welcome :)18:34
b-manwhat desktop env you are using? ;)18:35
*** chandoo has joined #maemo18:35
johnxb-man, on my desktop? or on my tablet?18:35
Stslaptopb-man: think that'll be hildon at first with option to change environments if you're not in-flash18:35
Stslaptop(as in, cloned mode)18:35
Stslaptopor installed to SD18:35
lcukare we having real users?18:35
johnxlcuk, had those once. they make a pill now.18:35
Stslaptopif anything, we have Meiz ;)18:35
b-manjohnx; that was a suggestion not a question. ;)18:36
*** milhouse has quit IRC18:36
*** Grackle has joined #maemo18:36
johnxb-man, ah, we'll probably leave alternative desktops up to users to setup...though I will keep it in mind for later18:36
Stslaptopjohnx: option when we have an in-flash version.. asking if you'd like to clone to SD or something18:37
johnxin first-boot-wizard?18:37
johnxor as a nice little separate app?18:37
Stslaptoptrue, it might be a bit early18:37
Stslaptopyeah, seperate app makes more sense18:38
lcukStskeeps, with any of these questions, think about your gran opening the box18:38
Stslaptopyeah yeah :P18:38
lcuk(or other relative as reqd)18:38
*** Tiger_056 has joined #maemo18:38
Stslaptoplcuk: will probably be something along the lines (in a later version) that real name gets turned into username .. and tablet device name18:38
lcuki simply ask for a name, it will help personalize things for them18:39
johnxah: location!18:39
Stslaptopyeah, that too18:39
*** milhouse has joined #maemo18:39
* johnx takes notes18:39
*** denny has joined #maemo18:40
johnxshould be easy to turn real name into user name. toLower($firstname)18:40
Tiger_056join #/kde18:40
lcukjohnx, do not underestimate your users18:41
lcukthey do strange crap like put fullstops and quotes and crap18:41
johnxah, little bobby;DROP TABLES18:41
lcukand different generations put things differently18:41
johnxheh...if (badname) ; then username = user; fi18:42
lcukjust have two fields, short name and fullname, as they type their shortname it should fill up proper name (unless its been filled in already)18:43
*** Tiger_056 has quit IRC18:43
RST38hSts: First time wizard should obviously ask "Are you an idiot?"18:43
qwerty12johnx, badname = motherfucker? :)18:43
johnxlcuk, if I can't do it with zenity I'm not doing it :P18:43
lcukwith a default option of Yes and no way to change it?18:43
RST38hSts: And choose the appropriate path depending on the answer18:43
johnxqwerty12, badname = bobby;rm -rf /18:43
lcukjohnx, i put a single name box into liqbase expecting a quick nickname, i learnt a lot from that experience ;)18:44
*** soap has joined #maemo18:45
* qwerty12 can't believe how shit slow the builder is at building sstrip >.<18:45
johnxlcuk, this can be ripped out later. if people complain. but I don't want to engage in painting the planks I'm going to use to build the barn at this point :P18:45
lcukname: "../dev/null"18:46
lcukheh, sounds exactly like me :P18:46
*** gentooer has joined #maemo18:47
johnxactually the killer would be, Name: Tablet User,,,":/root:/bin/su18:47
*** chandoo- has quit IRC18:47
*** Knowledge has joined #maemo18:53
*** Andy80 has quit IRC18:54
lcukjohnx, they finally arrived to take you away?18:56
johnxthey should. wonder what's taking so long18:56
*** z72ka_ntb has quit IRC18:57
b-mani think i've partly solved the xorg problem, i didn't include "X &" and "export DISPLAY=:0" in rc.local.19:00
RST38habundance of other patients, no doubt =)19:00
*** briglia has joined #maemo19:01
johnxb-man, if you're still using gdm it starts X for you19:02
johnxb-man, you removed gdm-conf?19:03
b-manno, i haven't yet...19:03
johnxwell. that's your problem19:04
johnxI can say without much doubt19:04
johnxor at very least one the problems19:04
b-manbut i need a way for my touch screen to work in gnome, that's partly why.19:05
johnxyou need xserver-xorg-input-tslib19:05
RST38h...Volvo's upcoming crash-proof car. The company will introduce a concept car based on the S60 this month...19:07
RST38hSee? S60 is so crash-proof that even Volvo uses it19:07
b-manok, then i'll just remove that useless xserver parameter line in gdm then. - i still would like to use gdm :p19:08
*** gentooer has quit IRC19:08
johnxb-man, so use it. :)19:09
*** RST38bis has joined #maemo19:09
alteregoFinally, I think I'm ready for RC2 :)19:11
johnxbut is RC2 ready for you?19:11
alteregoNo, probably not :P19:11
johnxthat's the spirit!19:12
alteregoI still need to complete my hildon-desktop plugin system. It works but it's buggy as f*ck.19:12
b-man*b-man hopes to god that ubuntu boots up properly, doesn't think ubuntu can take eny more battery poping :p*19:12
johnxb-man, you need a usb/bt keyboard or a linux box :P19:13
*** limepi has joined #maemo19:13
limepiI cannot for the life of me get a FLAC file to play on my n800 :(19:13
johnxdid you follow a guide? are you getting an error message? what music player are you using?19:18
*** Mousey has joined #maemo19:19
lcukb-man, you do know that to do irc actions you type "/me jumps up and down" instead of "*luck jumps up and down"19:20
Mousey*Mousey jumps up and dnow19:21
lcuk*lcuk makes more typos19:21
*** frade has quit IRC19:21
Mousey*Mousey fails at internets19:21
* johnx fails at spelling19:21
johnx3rd grade all over again19:21
lcukblame your keyboard19:21
Mouseyif i had had internets in 3rd grade, i'd have a real job by now19:21
johnxIt's a good keyboard actually19:21
limepijohnx: I've read that mplayer can just straight up play a FLAC file19:21
johnxlimepi, that sounds right I think19:22
Mouseylimepi: if you have the right libs, mplayer will play anything19:22
lcuklimepi, it possibly can then, are you sure its a valid FLAC file though19:22
limepiyes, it plays on my desktop just fine19:22
lcukwith mplayer?19:23
limepiI haven't tried that19:23
limepiit works with mp3 playing software19:23
lcukthen try renaminig it to mp3 on the tablet and seeing if it works ;)19:24
limepigrr, won't play with VLC19:25
*** b-man has quit IRC19:25
limepiyes, it does play with mplayer on my mac, here19:26
lcuktry running it from mplayer on tablet with command line then and see if you can determine why its failing19:26
limepiI might as well just transcode the damn thing19:27
limepidamned if I can tell the difference, anyway19:27
*** rjelari has quit IRC19:33
johnxStskeeps, hey, I think this will actually work19:35
johnxneed to learn how to use update-alternatives tomorrow so I can hook hildon-desktop-env up to x-session-manager19:37
alteregoRight time for the testing face ..19:37
alterego~phase .. O_O19:37
johnxah, go rest your face :D19:37
johnx'night alterego19:38
alteregog'night :)19:38
johnxah, I misread testing as resting19:38
johnxmeans we could probably both use sleep, huh?19:38
*** b-man has joined #maemo19:39
b-manHUGE_SUCSESS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ubuntu boots perfectly now and all the applications work allmost perfectly, even ubuntu-desktop is pritty responsive!!! WOHOOOOO!!!!!19:40
johnxgood deal b-man19:41
b-manallthough i'll have to install xkbd, since matchbox-keyboard causes the desktop to restart.19:42
alteregoI'm gonna be reinstalling tomorrow ..19:42
alteregoNow I've virtualized everything I want a basic desktop install to run all my VM's :)19:42
johnxthink b-man's talking about ubuntu on the tablet though :)19:42
b-manoh yah!!! :D19:43
b-manit works great too!!19:43
b-manallthough i'm using 356 mb of swap ;)19:44
johnxaaah, well that would help19:44
alteregoflash images? :)19:44
b-mani even have right-click!19:44
b-manalterego; i'll probibly make a guide when i have the time.19:45
*** mlpug has joined #maemo19:47
*** rsalveti has quit IRC19:47
*** chandoo has quit IRC19:47
alteregoCan we see a screeny then :)19:47
*** chandoo has joined #maemo19:47
johnxStslaptop, pushed auto-startx to my lp bzr. if you want to submit it to the builder, go ahead but it's not much use without a tweak to hildon-desktop-env which will be tomorrow19:48
johnx'night for real now19:48
b-manshure, i'll post a ton of screenshots over at ITT19:48
*** rsalveti has joined #maemo19:49
b-manbtw, don't worry, i'll make a guide for ubuntu sometime today or tomorrow.19:49
alteregoHow does it cope with the resolution?19:49
b-manreally good :)19:50
*** chandoo- has joined #maemo19:50
b-maneasy to read, easy to use. :D19:50
Stskeepsjohnx: k, i19:53
Stskeeps'll wait19:53
johnxit does nicely launch a failsafe x-terminal. only helps the n810 users though19:54
lcukjohnx, :P your turn not to sleep19:55
b-manhard to believe it only took me 3 days to start from an idia and progresivly evolve into a true full, bootable ubuntu install :D19:55
lcukcya in a bit ;)19:55
Stskeepsb-man: do me a favour and note that battery life will (cos it's a desktop distribution) be limited when you do announce19:55
b-mani'll take note of that, thanks19:56
Stskeepsthere's not much to do besides dsme-tools & wifi power saving (feel free to use the deblet scripts), so19:56
*** hellwolf has quit IRC19:57
b-mank :)19:57
Stskeepsand remember to use deblet bootmenu as dependancy or i'll have to slap you :P19:58
alteregoThese Christmas lectures are actually pretty good :)19:58
alteregoThough Bill Gates appearing in the last one was a bit of a downer.19:58
b-mando you think that those dsme/powersave scrips might require modifications?19:59
Stskeepsnah, not really19:59
b-mando you think it's safe just to dpkg -i them?19:59
Stskeepsyeah, should work fine20:00
b-manok *b-man goes off and starts downloading packages from deblet repo :)*20:01
*** Interocitor has joined #maemo20:02
*** bef0rd has joined #maemo20:08
*** chandoo has quit IRC20:09
alteregoWell, libhildon1-ruby1.8 has been properly tested now :)20:09
* alterego moves onto libosso-ruby1.820:09
mikkov_Can anybody add comment to that it is recommended to use only extras in .install files and that extras-devel is absolutely not recommended?20:11
alteregoSure, extras-devel is used for when you're testing your application package.20:11
alteregoOnce your application and the packaging is working and building correctly with the auto-builder, you promote it to extras. Users shouldn't install software from extras-devel because it's presumably extremely unstable.20:12
*** denny has quit IRC20:13
alteregoAnd more than likely it'll break something ..20:13
mikkov_and using extras-devel in .install files enables extras-devel unwillingly for unknowing users20:13
*** qwerty12 has quit IRC20:15
*** qwerty12_N800 has joined #mAeMo20:15
* Stslaptop still believes there should be extras-devel (or testing); and then encouraging garage PPAs for developers to release often20:17
alteregoWell, I think I'm pretty happy with the new set of ruby-maemo packages.20:17
*** GAN800 has joined #maemo20:18
*** roue has quit IRC20:20
alteregoDependencies seem to check out.20:21
alteregoSeems to work in my own auto-builder setup, so I guess it'll be good in extras :)20:21
Stslaptopevening GAN80020:21
GAN800Howdy, Stslaptop. :)20:22
* alterego contemplates dinner.20:23
* GAN800 is eating Checkers20:25
GAN800andre___, woooo, bugspam! ;)20:25
andre___you wanted it, you get it! :)20:26
andre___now doing the same for gnome bugzilla....20:26
*** beavis is now known as krutt20:28
GAN800Now, who wants to calculate what percentage of tz's 34 reports atually serve to do anything other than triple the bugsquad's workload? :p20:28
andre___heh. some are quite useful, don't say that. :)20:28
andre___gnome bugzilla has cute scripts to gather much more info. hope they get upstreamed later this year20:29
*** qwerty12_N800 is now known as qwerty12_N800_20:31
*** Knowledge has quit IRC20:32
sp3000heh, dup count 163920:32
lcukandre___,  that "Ryan Abel" guy is a bit of a bug spotting super foe, i hope all the bugs he notices are real ;) perhaps he should be banned :P20:33
alteregoGAN800, is it too early for me to use the new extras categories? I've just used 'user/development' and it doesn't appear to get localised.20:33
sp3000I guess that's what you get when bugzilla is a crash reporter database :P20:33
GAN800lcuk, I know! Fuck that guy! Really. :P20:34
andre___lcuk, yeah, suspicious guy20:34
GAN800alterego, they wont be localized20:34
* sp3000 goes load gnome # 522534, just because20:34
andre___522534 is ugly. can't even block it because the trace is too short20:35
alteregoGAN800, because they're not being used right now?20:35
GAN800alterego, so you can push them now and suffer for a while unlocalized, or you can wait.20:35
*** bilboed-tp has quit IRC20:35
alteregoI'll push them now :20:35
GAN800Application Manager still need20:35
GAN800s to be updated (stupid fkb)20:35
GAN800andre___, we need to source some shirts.20:37
*** ssvb has joined #maemo20:37
andre___"I filed 100 Maemo bugs in 2008 and all I got was this lousy t-shirt"?20:38
andre___or more like this?:
b-manStslaptop; ware is osso-dsp-modules-rx-34? i can't find it enyware in the repo :(20:38
*** housetier has quit IRC20:39
GAN800I guess timeless was shooting for monthly, but we'd probably be better off di20:39
GAN800doing it quarterly20:39
alteregoSomeone here might be able to help. I have a couple of packages that should be part of the 'all' architecture. When I build for armel and i386 it recreates them and screws the md5 sum for the previous build.20:39
Stslaptopb-man: you cannot distribute that along with your ubuntu image so :P20:39
alteregoHow do I fix the .changes file?20:39
alteregoautomatically that is, I don't want to have to do it by hand.20:39
Stslaptopb-man: it's a closed source nokia package, so20:39
GAN800andre___, ha!20:40
b-manhow can i get permissions to use it?20:40
GAN800Same, except for bug #5000. ;)20:40
*** Vulcanis has quit IRC20:40
Stslaptopb-man: that's where you wait for mer & to work :P20:40
Stslaptopwe used a "trick" in deblet, but i wouldnt recommend it for real use20:40
Stslaptop(the non-free local repository)20:41
andre___GAN800, i only remember that behdad was up for 9 hours to file #500000 and he was beaten by two other people (crevette and me) :-P20:41
GAN800lcuk, I used FBReader again for the first time since October and it feels way slower now for some reason. <_<20:41
b-manwhat kind of "trick"? :)20:41
Stslaptopb-man: you'll have to look at deblet installer source and the -nonfree packages20:41
lcukwell i stepped originally from my decrepid old 200mhz loox pda to my nokia at double speed and felt the same way ;)20:42
Stslaptopin any case, if you include that functionality, you cannot distribute the tar.gz with your ubuntu installation, b-man :P20:42
GAN800lcuk, make liqreader standalone and feature-complete already. :p20:43
b-manok, so i won't include sound or dsp in my image :p20:43
lcuki hear that about lots of things, ill say it again, i need to make liqbase a library (which i am already in the middle of doing)20:43
lcukbut its not going to happen instantly20:44
lcuki have a job and family and relaxation first :)20:44
b-man*b-man starts muttering and dpkg --removes some packages*20:44
lcukgan, speak to nokia about the refund, but if you wanna pay me ill find my chap-stick and kneepads20:45
*** krutt has quit IRC20:48
*** richieeee72 has joined #maemo20:48
*** b-man has quit IRC20:49
alteregoHmm, ruby start up time is pretty poor :)20:49
* alterego contemplates ruby-launcher20:49
RST38bisgan: what again? the logical conclusion to winmobile on nit thread?20:49
*** krutt has joined #maemo20:50
Stslaptop"i thought my NIT ran windows mobile or symbian, and i want my money back?"20:50
*** bilboed-tp has joined #maemo20:50
GAN800RST38bis, I was thinking it was liqos and now I want a refund from lcuk.20:51
*** richieeee72 has left #maemo20:51
lcukalterego, i know you said that varargs wont come from c, but is it relatively easy to add bindings to ruby from my c code?20:52
lcukshurrup gan :P20:52
lcukis there a pointer somewhere..20:53
alteregoMaking ruby bindings is very easy :)20:53
RST38bisgan: require it in blood!20:53
alteregoI mean, actually, it's really hard. Ruby-Maemo is extremely complex.20:53
lcukok then, ill go down the python route :P20:53
lcukNokia-N810-23-14:~# apt-cache search ruby20:56
alteregodeb diablo user20:56
*** qwerty12_N800_ is now known as qwerty12_N80020:58
GAN800RST38bis, ass-pennies!20:58
*** b-man has joined #maemo21:00
*** gentooer has joined #maemo21:01
b-manit looks like i finally found a major bug with my Ubuntu install; the desktop restarts when i try to type in eny text with xkbd and matchbox-keyboard. :( Stslaptop; eny suggestions?21:03
b-manthis problem doesn't seem to exzist in mer.21:04
*** dforsyth_ has joined #maemo21:04
*** Zic has quit IRC21:04
lcukb-man, i can imagine his response would be along the lines of "install mer" :D21:05
* RST38bis off to watch Sherlock Holmes21:05
*** RST38bis has quit IRC21:05
*** Interocitor has quit IRC21:06
b-mannah, i just need a way to keep xorg from messing up when i try to use a vertual keyboard.21:06
alteregoTime for another ruby-maemo snippet me thinks :)21:07
lcukyeah, is it any vkb?21:07
b-manexcept hildon-input-method - i haven't tested it yet.21:08
RST38hAh, wait21:08
RST38hGAN: BTW, can I ask you a [horror] MacOS question?21:09
b-manno matter what people say, i'm not going to stop working on improving ubuntu for the nit :D21:10
*** eathprod has joined #maemo21:10
lcukb-man :) and good for you21:10
b-mani have too much enthusiasm to stop :)21:10
lcuk(and others who follow your trailblazing)21:10
Stslaptopb-man: hehe.. better finish your installer first ;)21:12
b-manyah ;)21:12
b-man*b-man gos and gets lunch* bye :)21:13
lcukwhy are people in such a rush to finish everything all of a sudden :P21:13
*** b-man has quit IRC21:13
*** bef0rd has quit IRC21:13
*** bilboed-tp has quit IRC21:15
* alterego posts another ruby-maemo snippet on his blog.21:15
*** dforsyth has quit IRC21:19
*** dforsyth has joined #maemo21:19
alteregoI kind of want to do something with gstreamer ..21:19
*** gregorovius has joined #maemo21:27
RST38hLike....KILL IT? =)21:28
*** gnuton is now known as Gnut[OFF]21:28
alteregoNo, I want to do something _with_ it.21:30
alteregoLike make a beautiful baby.21:30
*** eathprod has quit IRC21:30
*** TrueJournals has joined #maemo21:31
*** dforsyth has quit IRC21:32
*** dforsyth has joined #maemo21:32
*** lool- has joined #maemo21:33
RST38halterego: I suggest trying females first.21:34
*** lool- has quit IRC21:34
RST38hgstreamer isn't very useful in this aspect, or many others for this matter...21:34
*** chenca has joined #maemo21:36
* alterego yawns21:37
qwerty12_N800Humping GStreamer too for you? :p21:37
*** flo_lap has joined #maemo21:37
*** dforsyth_ has quit IRC21:39
*** flo_lap is now known as florian21:39
*** tmielika_ has left #maemo21:45
*** madhav has quit IRC21:45
*** GAN800 has quit IRC21:49
*** aloisiojr has quit IRC21:51
*** eichi_ has quit IRC21:52
*** Vulcanis has joined #maemo21:52
*** fie has joined #maemo21:54
*** wms has quit IRC21:55
*** TrueJournals has quit IRC21:56
*** eichi_ has joined #maemo21:59
*** b-man has joined #maemo21:59
*** t_s_o has quit IRC22:01
*** dforsyth_ has joined #maemo22:01
*** b-man has quit IRC22:02
*** Grackle has quit IRC22:02
pupniklike a hungry, angry baby22:03
* RST38h added standardized touch screen support to EMULib22:05
lcukRST38h, using xsp on maemo?22:06
*** dforsyth has quit IRC22:06
RST38hlcuk: not really, I have got a gtk widget for that22:07
lcukwhere are you getting touch reports from then?22:07
RST38hyou do not want to get touch reports from GTK on Maemo - it will slow your app to a crawl22:08
lcuki use either x11 itself or xsp22:09
lcukbut xsp needs beating to a pulp in some situations22:09
lcuk(mainly due to it being a full touch surface library and operating in windowed mode doesnt work too well without messing)22:11
RST38hI just read the position when I need it22:12
alteregopupnik: I've setup a ruby-maemo apt repository with i386 and armel packages. It has the current stable release. If you installed the other packages manually you'll have to uninstall them. The repo is: " diablo user"22:12
RST38hlcuk: That is because you have not followed advice and created a standard transparent gtk widget filling the whole screen22:12
lcukthats because i have not initialized GTK nor do i need to, a core x11 window works nicer and is less resource intensive22:13
RST38hlcuk: while it does not have to draw itself, it will take care of accepting and processing input22:13
pupnikalterego: i'll pull my old packages and link to that ok?22:13
alteregoYes please :)22:13
lcukRST38h, can your touch thingy accept pressure?22:13
RST38hlcuk: Not using pressure reading - I only need it to simulate joypad22:13
lcukthen the x11 one i have is exactly the same22:14
lcukwhen compiled without xsp library liqbase drops back to using core default x11 mourse readings22:14
pupnikalterego: i nuked my gregale/bora debs22:16
alteregoWell, I'm not supporting them at the moment.22:17
alteregoIf anyone requests them I'll back port but I'm not going to bother otherwise.22:17
*** housetier has joined #maemo22:17
alteregoTrying to get my head around libosso again ^_^22:22
alteregoI'm writing some base code for my future ruby applications.22:22
*** setanta has quit IRC22:23
*** murrayc_ has joined #maemo22:23
*** Grackle has joined #maemo22:25
*** lmoura has quit IRC22:27
*** borism has quit IRC22:27
*** CiroipN810 has joined #Maemo22:32
*** borism has joined #maemo22:35
lcukhiya CiroipN810, that clock of yours is looking fiiiiiiine :D22:37
CiroipN810oh,good afternoon lcuk22:38
CiroipN810happy new year22:38
alteregoDamnit, "Application did not provide valid .desktop file" :(22:38
lcukand a happy new year to yourself, seems odd that we say such things here but not in formal forums22:39
CiroipN81010x u, yes works fine on the tablet but i guess still not 100% ready22:39
CiroipN810im old school lcuk, every place on internet is the same for me :)22:41
lcukCiroipN810, never seen it as such, different perspectives with single liners22:44
CiroipN810I always try to keep it real with real heads behind the monitor :)22:45
lcukdamn! thats where ive been going wrong all this time, i thought i was involved in some big simulation :D :P22:46
CiroipN810lol,yes, well some places overwhelm people i guess. I can hardly feel facebook people real22:48
*** Grackle has quit IRC22:49
*** Gnut[OFF] is now known as gnuton22:50
*** Grackle has joined #maemo22:52
*** mlpug has quit IRC22:57
alteregoWhy can't it tell you _why_ the damn .desktop file isn't valid >:(22:57
* alterego starts to get angry.22:58
* qwerty12_N800 usually finds out his desktop files are invalid when hildon-desktop restarts :)22:59
alteregoAny tips on what the usual causes are?22:59
qwerty12_N800Can you pastebin the file?23:00
alteregoSure, hang on.23:00
lcukit not passing the validity test is one primary reason23:00
lcukalterego, dont let qwerty anywhere near your package scripts ;)23:00
*** lool- has joined #maemo23:00
*** murrayc_ has quit IRC23:01
qwerty12_N800tried making the exec line Exec=ruby 1.8 /home/t.swindell/projects/ruby-maemo/framework/framework.rb23:03
alteregoErm, the program runs.23:03
lcukalterego, on the tablet does /home/t.swindell exist? i thought we had /home/user23:03
alteregoI'm just getting a ".desktop file is not valid" error when I start it.23:03
qwerty12_N800alterego,, Ah, is this a libosso thing?23:03
alteregoNo libosso yet.23:04
qwerty12_N800Hmm, is it hildon-desktop itself giving you the error?23:04
alteregohildon-desktop[26373]: GLIB WARNING ** default - Application Ruby Base did not provide valid .desktop file23:04
qwerty12_N800Lemme install the error visualizer and try out your desktop file23:05
*** SHADOW__X has left #maemo23:06
lcukmaybe the runcode returned from ruby when it executes is invalid?23:06
*** dforsyth_ has quit IRC23:06
alteregoIt wont return until the application terminates.23:06
*** dforsyth has joined #maemo23:07
lcukalterego, its not something as silly as I get from gcc if i dont put a trailing blank line23:08
alteregoTried with and without ..23:09
lcukto get the default icon btw i dont think you need to specify an icon line23:09
lcuki never included one with my liqremote thing23:09
alteregoYes, well. I did that to stop it complaining about an icon line :P23:09
*** sin18 has quit IRC23:10
lcukwhat complained about an icon line?23:11
lcukwhen you installed it, or when you click it23:11
alteregoClicked it.23:11
*** roue has joined #maemo23:13
*** profoX` has quit IRC23:17
*** roue has quit IRC23:18
alteregoInteresting ..23:23
alteregoWell, it's working now. It has something to do with the application name me thinks ..23:23
qwerty12_N800alterego, I couldn't get that message repeated here anyway :p23:24
alteregoIt's happening when I use 'GLib#set_application_name' :/23:24
*** TrueJournals has joined #maemo23:25
olican i play rmvb files on n800 (without conversion) ?23:26
*** ciroip has joined #maemo23:30
*** alterego has quit IRC23:31
*** alterego has joined #maemo23:31
alteregoAnyone know why g_set_application_name would have an adverse effect on the .desktop file?23:36
*** birunko has joined #maemo23:36
alteregoI wonder if it's to do with WM_CLASS ..23:38
alteregoYes, yes it is :)23:38
alteregoStartupWMClass has to be the same as g_set_application_name :)23:39
*** sin18 has joined #maemo23:39
*** mat has quit IRC23:44
*** nikola has joined #maemo23:45
nikolahello all23:45
nikolai have invoked 'update-rc.d -f hildon-desktop remove'23:46
nikolathen ran 'update-rc.d -f hildon-desktop defaults'23:46
nikolabut hildon desktop still won't run23:46
nikolaany ideas?23:46
nikolaNokia n810, by the way23:47
nikolawith Maemo Diablo23:47
TrueJournalsPffft... no :-P23:47
*** benh has joined #maemo23:47
TrueJournalsUmmm... don't do that next time? ;-)23:47
nikolalol, i am trying to set it up to only run my app23:47
nikolaand it works23:48
nikolahowever, i cant get it back ;)23:48
Stskeepslook at the postinst of hildon-desktop maybe?23:51
Stskeepsin var/lib/dpkg/info23:51
*** CiroipN810 has quit IRC23:51
*** thopiekar has quit IRC23:52
alteregoOkay, so I've got OSSO working correctly now too :)23:52
lcuknikola, have you also been messing and manually shifting stuff around inside /etc/init.d23:54
*** dforsyth_ has joined #maemo23:55
nikolano i have not23:55
lcukreading on here about adding the service:
lcukdoes it do basically the same thing when you readd it or does it skip some or does it give errors23:56
nikolait places the same links in the rc folders23:57
lcukcan only suggest following Stskeeps' advice and try checking out the postinst23:58
lcukbut nikola stopping hildon desktop brings up everything else and the machine works fully, just without a desktop?23:59

Generated by 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at!