IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2008-12-18

t_s_o	the only version if libc6 i find with apt-cache at the moment is osso9. it should show up if its on the repos, yes?	00:00
t_s_o	osso10 that is	00:00
lcuk	jott is in silicon heaven. eyeing up silicone boobies all day long	00:00
qwerty12_N800	lcuk, sounds like you're talking from experience :p	00:01
lcuk	yeah, he got all his links from meh	00:01
qwerty12_N800	hehe	00:02
lcuk	apart from the german ones, he found them himself	00:02
t_s_o	cute, i turn on extras-devel and apt-cache shows osso10, turn it off and i only find osso9	00:03
t_s_o	but in either case i get the same error in app manager...	00:03
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t_s_o	hmm, could a modified modest or app manager package conflict?	00:04
qwerty12_N800	no, i updated with both those fine (although I use -unlocked)	00:05
lcuk	usual cause is additional repos	00:05
t_s_o	well i have them all off, except extra-devel for a quick look at the apt-cache update...	00:06
lcuk	ooer	00:06
t_s_o	but turning it off again changes nothing...	00:06
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t_s_o	that is, i have currently the nokia ones and extras as active, everything else turned off...	00:07
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Stskeeps	GAN8001: curious, is maemo.org a legal entity?	00:11
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lcuk	Stskeeps, why, has it just stolen a car or something?	00:12
Stskeeps	lcuk: writing the first "this could be nice to be redistributable"	00:12
lcuk	oooh	00:12
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Stskeeps	lcuk, (others interested in firmware redistribution), GAN8001: http://rafb.net/p/YWgzSh84.html	00:19
GAN8001	Stskeeps, um, well. . . .	00:21
GAN8001	Bit fuzzy at the moment	00:21
GAN8001	likely to be much less fuzzy in the near future	00:21
Stskeeps	i guess so	00:21
Stskeeps	GAN8001: well it was a proposal to enter as a bug to encourage discussion of this	00:22
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GAN8001	I think if you're talking about licensing it'd be appropriate to use maemo.org for "community"	00:22
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Stskeeps	that's true	00:22
GAN8001	I think Nokia has a plan/	00:22
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GAN8001	But it's dependent on getting maemo.nokia.com and Maemo @ Forum Nokia off the ground.	00:22
t_s_o	heh, no wonder, i had libc6-dbg floating around :S	00:23
ciroip	is qwerty around?	00:23
r2d2rogers	I only have seen 3 files of firmware in the initfs for the 770 does that seem right?	00:23
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: yeah, think so	00:23
r2d2rogers	good deal	00:23
r2d2rogers	<G>	00:23
t_s_o	that cleared my problem	00:23
mavhc	GAN8001: much like the cylons?	00:23
mavhc	is there a what's new for this nokia map update?	00:23
qwerty12_N800	ciroip, sure	00:24
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ciroip	oh, hithere	00:24
Stskeeps	GAN8001: well. in the ideal world maemo.org would be able to make the firmware images, and distribute them like tablets-dev do already	00:24
qwerty12_N800	hi ciroip :)	00:24
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ciroip	I wanted just warn you to not bore to make a package out of the 003	00:24
Stskeeps	you just poked a bit for getting this discussion started :)	00:24
ciroip	because have an annoying shit that make it crash, so it would just piss people :)	00:25
t_s_o	well then, where goes	00:25
GAN8001	Stskeeps, we can treat maemo.org as the "legal entity" of the Maemo Community.	00:25
qwerty12_N800	ciroip, heh, saw the post :(	00:25
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ciroip	mh, k, good :)	00:25
Stskeeps	GAN8001: alright	00:26
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GAN8001	Directed by the Maemo Community Council which is elected by the Maemo Community.	00:26
GAN8001	Stskeeps, anyway, poke -community about it.	00:26
GAN8001	Quim & co. will have plenty to say about it, I'm sure	00:27
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Stskeeps	but the model of maemo.org (directed by, elected by.. ) doing the construction of images and "limited" distribution may work? i mean, i could work that way personally	00:28
Stskeeps	with providing scripts for making the images	00:28
Stskeeps	i'll poke -community about it :P	00:29
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GAN8001	Yeah, that sounds like exactly how I'd do it.	00:31
milhouse	feck... what's this "libc6 (=2.5.0-1osso9)" crap all about? the SSU won't install because of it :(	00:33
Stskeeps	milhouse: -dbg installed	00:33
Stskeeps	libc6-db	00:33
Stskeeps	g	00:33
milhouse	yes, 'cos Nokia asked me to install it! :)	00:33
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Stskeeps	oh	00:33
GAN8001	Was it Eero recommending installing that for testing on Bugzilla?	00:33
milhouse	yep	00:33
GAN8001	Somebody poke him about that.	00:34
milhouse	sweet huh?	00:34
GAN8001	(though -developers)	00:34
GAN8001	s/though/through/	00:34
Stskeeps	GAN8001: couldn't this actually be a generic model for most cooperation?	00:34
infobot	GAN8001 meant: (through -developers)	00:34
GAN8001	Also, hi milhouse. :)	00:34
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Orlin	hey guys	00:34
Orlin	question	00:34
Orlin	im trying to update to the new firmware for n810, and its giving me a missing package error for bluez-utils?	00:34
milhouse	hi GAN	00:34
milhouse	will uninstalling strace fix the libc6 problem?	00:35
Orlin	anyone got any tips/help/suggestions?	00:35
GAN8001	milhouse, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=250421&postcount=68	00:35
* Stskeeps ponders if it's ok to lynch people messing up SSUs		00:35
milhouse	Orlin - think your option is to uninstall bluez-utils	00:35
milhouse	GAN: Cheers	00:36
Orlin	how do i do that? O_o	00:36
GAN8001	tz just loves to make my life more difficult	00:36
GAN8001	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=250276#post250276	00:36
GAN8001	Orlin, remove bluez-utils-test	00:36
milhouse	Orlin: Do you see bluez-utils listed in Application manager (Show Installed Applications)?	00:36
GAN8001	Stskeeps, I endorse it.	00:36
GAN8001	Especially when it's obnoxious people like tz. :\	00:37
GAN8001	Why the hell would you put that shit in user/?	00:37
lardman	hmm, /me will have to do a new sbc update to account for the new bluez-utils	00:37
Orlin	milhouse: i don't to install it	00:37
qwerty12_N800	milhouse, libc6-dbg wasn't installed with strace here...	00:37
milhouse	am just removing libc6-debug and it appears maemo-debug-scripts may have been the culprit	00:37
qwerty12_N800	lardman, yes, you will :P :)	00:37
GAN8001	Orlin, minigpsd?	00:37
Orlin	ehh?	00:38
milhouse	s/libc6-debug/libc6-dbg/	00:38
infobot	milhouse meant: am just removing libc6-dbg and it appears maemo-debug-scripts may have been the culprit	00:38
Orlin	i have minigpsd installed	00:38
t_s_o	and so im using 5.2008.43-7	00:38
Orlin	im not sure why xD	00:38
lardman	qwerty12_N800: you interested? new method, sounds better (though probably not for the old lethal bizzle it has to be said)	00:39
Orlin	ah i see	00:39
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t_s_o	heh, it ate my modified boot screens...	00:39
milhouse	Looks like SSU is good to go here now - cheers all (naughty Eero)	00:39
Orlin	ah ok	00:40
Orlin	GAN8001 removing minigpsd fixed it :D	00:40
Orlin	thanks	00:40
GAN8001	Sure	00:40
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Orlin	i couldnt get that to work anyway xD	00:40
qwerty12_N800	lardman, sure :) (well, i could install now - dunno about finding headphones @ this time! :)). meh, it's impossible for lethal bizzle to sound any better :P :D	00:41
lardman	you're quite right there :D	00:41
qwerty12_N800	yeah, too good already :D	00:41
lardman	actually the fp method might improve it, silence with the occasional popping noise	00:41
qwerty12_N800	lardman, i've got part 2 of that track, want it for 'testing' purposes? :D	00:42
lardman	is it single channel on the left side this time?	00:43
lardman	ah no, the original was mono	00:43
qwerty12_N800	heh, normal stereo this one :)	00:43
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* qwerty12_N800 never thought i'd be saying that i actually liked a clone...		00:46
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Stskeeps	qwerty12_N800: which, the chinese one?	00:47
zakkm	Is the newest SSU update safe to use? ( cloned to SD )	00:47
zakkm	is it any better?	00:47
Stskeeps	yes, X is faster	00:47
qwerty12_N800	Stskeeps, yeah :D	00:47
Stskeeps	zakkm: dont think penguinbait has a new .deb out if you still use his bootmenu	00:48
zakkm	significantly?	00:48
zakkm	yeah i do	00:48
zakkm	ill wait then	00:48
Stskeeps	not significantly, but noticable	00:48
zakkm	awesome	00:48
zakkm	XD	00:48
GAN8001	We need one bootmenu solution. :\	00:48
zakkm	lilo ftw lol	00:48
Stskeeps	GAN8001: i'm dragging slowly towards solca's principle. covers all scenarios	00:48
GAN8001	Plus a Control Panel	00:49
qwerty12_N800	Stskeeps, i wonder why xserver-xomap uses march rather than mcpu & mtune...	00:49
GAN8001	We should see if we can coordinate on something with Nokia for Fremantle.	00:49
Stskeeps	GAN8001: i still have a good eye to the 4mb linux partition	00:49
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GAN8001	I hope we start hearing more in public by the alpha	00:51
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Stskeeps	GAN8001: http://rafb.net/p/c1FC7820.html <- comments before i fire it off? (sorry for all the questions, i'm not that good at community :P)	00:55
Stskeeps	subject would be "Proposal for redistributable community firmware images"	00:56
Stskeeps	ok, maybe not "redistributable"	00:56
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GAN800	Stskeeps, we'll get you trained yet. ;	00:59
GAN800	s/maemo.org/community/1	00:59
Stskeeps	don't you mean the other way?	00:59
GAN800	s/has/have/1	00:59
GAN800	They're cpmmunity efforts.	01:00
Stskeeps	alright	01:00
GAN800	maemo.org is a website, it doesn't do anything. :p	01:00
GAN800	'the community', not 'community'	01:00
Stskeeps	but in the case of who is licensed to do something, maemo.org is ok?	01:01
GAN800	Roght	01:01
GAN800	s/o/i	01:01
Stskeeps	k	01:01
GAN800	problematique?	01:01
Stskeeps	i like that word but i guess it's a bit french/academic..	01:02
GAN800	move the comma on the first bullet point down a word	01:02
GAN800	I don't recognize it from a US perdpective.	01:02
GAN800	Your audience is mostly European, so if it works for them. . . .	01:03
Stskeeps	hhe	01:03
Stskeeps	or Muse fans.. (map of the problematique.. :P)	01:03
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GAN800	Add something inviting more input for other options	01:04
Stskeeps	nod	01:04
GAN800	It's sounds too much like you're proposing that that's exactly how it should be done.	01:04
Stskeeps	yeah, ego, .. too much of that :>	01:04
GAN800	paragraph 2 might be	01:04
GAN800	a good place to change	01:04
Stskeeps	would->could :P	01:05
GAN800	Well, not really ego, but mostly it seems like a proposal to do that instead of a proposal for discussion of the best practice. :P	01:05
Stskeeps	nod	01:05
GAN800	Other than that it looks good.	01:06
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Stskeeps	wow, joost is shutting down	01:13
Stskeeps	.. good riddance, that was a horrid interface	01:13
Stskeeps	(software app that is)	01:13
Stskeeps	GAN800: if something like this could work, we could accelerate a load of efforts.. so it will be interesting to see	01:14
Stskeeps	suddenly Community Edition Diablo could be in reach, etc :P	01:15
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Stskeeps	right, i'm obviously going slightly insane in ideas, so i think it's time to go to bed :P	01:16
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GAN800	Stskeeps, I feel a bit like we're standing still on this stiff	01:18
GAN800	hopefully we'll hear about some progress and they haven't just been occupied elsewhere internally.	01:19
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StsN800	heh, woojoy.com	01:28
RST38h	Sts: Joost is shutting down? Good	01:29
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RST38h	Maybe they will stop spamming me	01:30
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mavhc	the p2p app is shutting down, they switched to a flash website a while ago	01:35
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RST38h	Where is fuckedupcompany.com when you really need it?	01:36
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RST38h	What happened with these guys anyway?	01:36
mavhc	wasn't it fuckedcompany?	01:37
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RST38h	then it may be still around =)	01:38
RST38h	Hehe: http://www.fuckedcompany.com/	01:39
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ssvb	hi lardman	01:45
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lardman	hey ssvb	02:17
ssvb	aha, not sleeping yet?	02:18
lardman	nah, hacking away at barcode app	02:18
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lardman	anyway, did you see my message from last night?	02:19
ssvb	regarding sbc encoder, it's a bit broken now, but there is a hope	02:19
lardman	that patch produces nicer sound	02:20
ssvb	it needs a bit more patches	02:20
ssvb	I sent one more fix today	02:20
lardman	I was going to try to work out if the constants are correct for the existing implementation, as per your hint, but have no idea what the author was doing	02:20
lardman	ah ok, will have a look see	02:20
ssvb	you can just forget about existing implementation	02:21
ssvb	a new one is going to be a lot better	02:21
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lardman	well that's good news	02:22
ssvb	I thought that you might consider joining linux-bluetooth mailing list	02:23
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ssvb	after all, you are working on a port for C55x	02:23
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lardman	yes I ought to really, I didn't think sbc was getting any attention though, hence my not getting round to it	02:24
lardman	hmm casting as 64bit int won't work for me	02:24
ssvb	40 bit is enough	02:25
lardman	I could do saturated arithmetic in hw?	02:25
ssvb	actually even 33 (or 34) would do :)	02:25
lardman	:)	02:25
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ssvb	saturated arithmetic is not needed here	02:26
lardman	fine	02:27
lardman	how much of an improvement does your bitpacking patch make?	02:27
ssvb	btw, have you benchmarked fully 16-bit version of filter?	02:27
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lardman	not really	02:27
ssvb	bitpacking overhead depends on the bitrate	02:27
lardman	ah, 16bit version? As in all data <=16bit?	02:27
ssvb	yes	02:28
ssvb	all the data and constants are 16-bit already, they are just using a bit wrong types (wider than needed)	02:28
lardman	that is interesting, I was going to look at that	02:29
lardman	the output and input types are 32bit though	02:29
ssvb	input data is 16-bit	02:29
ssvb	it is just converted to 32-bits for no reason	02:29
lardman	yep	02:30
lardman	atm I'm running everything in 32bit mode	02:30
lardman	but switching to 16bit would be good, to allow some better hw optimisations, etc	02:30
ssvb	you can try some variation of http://marc.info/?l=linux-bluetooth&m=122946734112418&w=2	02:30
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lardman	I'd not seen that email	02:31
* lardman must subscribe		02:31
ssvb	'sbc_encoder_state->X' type can be converted to int16_t	02:32
ssvb	but a lot more optimizations can be still applied to this function	02:32
lardman	yep I saw that	02:32
lardman	ok, I'll take a look at it tomorrow	02:32
lardman	hmm, I tried the fp version from btsco, but no output yet	02:34
derf	Wait, someone's actually working on maemo-barcode?	02:35
lardman	yeah, in a branch	02:35
Macer_	hi	02:36
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GAN800	Time to change the name. :p	02:36
Macer	hi	02:36
lardman	yeah, I know	02:36
derf	"Barcode for Yer Mother"	02:36
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GAN800	'Barcode yer Mother'	02:37
lardman	right, is getting late here, time for bed	02:38
lardman	night all	02:38
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Macer	hm.. think i just bricked my n800 :)	02:39
Macer	heh	02:39
Macer	oh.. maybe not	02:40
derf	Try harder.	02:44
Macer	blah.. was kind of hoping they fixed the microb/zimbra bug	02:44
Macer	guess not	02:44
Macer	damn you maemo	02:44
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Macer	anybody know how i map the email client's sent folder to the sent folder on my imap server?	02:51
Macer	it doesn't seem to put a copy on my imap server	02:51
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andre__	hmm. fixing the mail notifications for qa contacts will turn this into a long night... sigh.	02:57
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zakkm	Stskeeps, GeneralAntilles, lcuk, qwerty12 : one of you here?	02:59
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ds3		03:05
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cyrus___	solca - are you around	03:06
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andre__	X-Fade: those whining messages - do you still get them? what's the exact sender address? i have the feeling that it's the test bugzilla installation triggers them	03:14
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Sakkath	i lost my charger and bought a $10 charger for nokia devices from a store. yesterday my n800 fell like 2 feet off a couch and hit the charger, it broke. i just exchanged it saying it came broke. now my n800 will hardly hold a charge. it won't stay on and charge at the same time, it dies very quickly---about as long as i've had it charging.	03:35
Sakkath	is it the charger? did maybe something inside get damaged?	03:35
Sakkath	i would imagine it should always be able to stay on when it's plugged in	03:36
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johnx	if the charger won't supply it enough power to charge the battery and run the system it will end up running down the battery even while plugged in	03:44
Sakkath	so it's the charger....	03:45
Sakkath	the one that i had yesterday (the same one) before it broke, worked fine	03:45
Sakkath	battery was dead for a LONG time, plugged it in and used it fine	03:45
Sakkath	so there's no possibility of internal damage that would cause anything like that?	03:45
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Sakkath	johnx: you're a great helper =] btw found a way to get socks to work, because the browser is gecko based, was able to use about:config to set it for the browser. also pidgin has socks support so that's pretty much everything i need	03:46
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Vulcanis	eww, don't use pidgin	03:47
Sakkath	..i'm just saying	03:47
Sakkath	what else would i use o.o	03:48
Vulcanis	I wonder if the rtconn patch has socks support	03:48
Sakkath	ok i have to go for now, ping me if you have a response. bye	03:48
Vulcanis	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21302	03:48
Sakkath	have a response. bye	03:49
Sakkath	20:48 < Vulcanis> http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=21302	03:49
Sakkath	oops....	03:49
Vulcanis	that puts most of the stuff pidgin can do, in the Chat app	03:49
johnx	mornin' all	03:49
Vulcanis	Hello	03:49
Vulcanis	Sakkath: no idea if that supports SOCKS, though, but it seems to have most of the pidgin default plugins' functions	03:50
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* ShadowJK_ sighs		04:28
ShadowJK_	remind me to never visit itt	04:28
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johnx	yeah, problem is, fun stuff shows up there from time to time	04:29
johnx	you just can't get sucked into the other stuff...	04:29
ShadowJK_	... So I saw the flashing red exclamation mark, and that it was SSU. I wondered how much free space on / I need and if the upgrade is going to hose anything... who would know... Oh, those folks at itt maybe. So I tap in the address, get the front page, then everything locks up. The back of the tablet starts getting hot, sure sign that it's swapping heavily. As by some miracle, I don't get brutally murde	04:30
ShadowJK_	red by the watchdog, and the tablet eventually after 5 minutes or so recovers. I check, and swapfile usage has ballooned to 70 megs. srsly, you'd think a page for tablet users would be safe for tablet users.	04:30
johnx	heh	04:31
johnx	I blame the browser	04:31
ShadowJK_	You can make any browser on any system die	04:32
ShadowJK_	or rendered unusable..	04:32
Vulcanis	this one is just easier than most.	04:32
johnx	and IMHO that should be considered a bug	04:32
johnx	no surprise that things as complex as browsers have lots of bugs.	04:33
ShadowJK_	The page is too complex	04:33
johnx	well, I agree with that too. did you try the other themes?	04:34
ShadowJK_	looks like ff3 on my sempron3100 needs several cpu seconds to display it too	04:34
ShadowJK_	no I closed it in disgust before accidentally triggering any potential hidden javascript bombs that would have the watchdog murder me :-)	04:35
johnx	if they'd get to even a slightly newer ff3 the js performance would improve by maybe an order of magnitude	04:36
ShadowJK_	these things tend to come in pairs :-( memory hogging complex website paired with cpu guzzling javascripts :)	04:36
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johnx	actually, testing ITT on my n800 now, you didn't have flash enabled, did you?	04:54
pupnik_	hate such websites	04:54
johnx	Nokia finally totally nailed the SSU update procedure	04:55
johnx	looks smooth for everyone, even dual-booters O_o	04:56
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ShadowJK_	I don't have flash enabled, no	05:00
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johnx	it's really not that slow here	05:00
johnx	definitely not 5 minutes of hanging	05:00
ShadowJK_	might've been some of the background daemons triggering at the same time which made the swapping all that worse, which would've also triggered the attempt to display the "not responding" notice for every single program, which would have slowed it down a magnitude more :)	05:04
johnx	yeah, when I first join a wifi hotspot my tablet goes nuts for a while :)	05:04
johnx	I actually enjoy it though, because I can be assured that even if I only connect for a minute or so I'll have my email, weather updates and fresh RSS entries to read	05:05
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ShadowJK_	but srsly, every time this happens I just get the feeling that whoever wrote that landing page should be confined to using a 770 with microb. Make it work fast on that, it should work acceptable on a wide range of things	05:05
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ShadowJK_	hm	05:06
johnx	I can't imagine microb on a 770 would be fast enough for anyone's web page	05:06
johnx	I mean it's a web browser not a microb page :P	05:06
johnx	the browser needs to pick up the slack	05:06
ShadowJK_	At that point people would just use the browser on their desktop machines, and write pages that instead of being instant on the average desktop, are almost instant or need "just" a few seconds. When you then put that page on machine with much less ram and CPU, we're back to where we started.	05:07
johnx	I'll get slaughtered over this but here it is: luckily we have iphone users on our side	05:08
ShadowJK_	ipod and wii too	05:09
johnx	well if you're included the wii you might as well include WebTV :P	05:09
johnx	but I think the iphone is the force to be reckoned with. just glad that it helps rather than hurts us	05:10
ShadowJK_	When I upgraded to ff3 it was awesomely fast and the CPU hogging problems of ff2 were gone. Now however I'm encountering more and more pages that trigger the "Javascript is taking too long to execute" message with ff3. I guess webdesigners upgraded to ff3 and Q6600 and use that as baseline for their crud	05:10
johnx	ah, prolly not. you should check your extensions	05:10
johnx	I had to go on an extension cleansing crusade a while ago	05:11
ShadowJK_	session manager	05:11
ShadowJK_	(because ff still crashes)	05:11
johnx	greasemonkey? adblock?	05:11
ShadowJK_	nope	05:11
johnx	session manager is really it?	05:11
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johnx	why not try ff3's builtin session manager?	05:12
ShadowJK_	it forgets sessions :(	05:12
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johnx	sorry, all I have to offer is a "works here" :/	05:13
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ShadowJK_	On another note, SSU has never failed for me so far ;)	05:17
* ShadowJK_ shall try the recent one after work today		05:17
TrueJournals	Well, now you've jinxed it	05:18
ShadowJK_	:)	05:19
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dick-richardson	what was the xml file a person needs to edit to add reboot, etc. to the power button menu?	05:57
dick-richardson	my google searches must be phrased poorly :/	05:57
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TrueJournals	dick-richardson: /etc/systemui/systemui.xml	05:58
TrueJournals	Just remove the lines <!-- and -->	05:58
dick-richardson	thank you!	05:58
TrueJournals	No problem	05:58
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Vulcanis	Hrm, anyone have a tutorial for installing+booting to an alternate operating system on the tablet? I know theres easydebian, but I'd kinda rather have the two separate	06:01
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Vulcanis	I'll probably find it searching, though I'm pretty sure I tried quite hard earlier today. But I will look tomorrow when I am not 90% asleep, I guess.	06:01
johnx	want something ready-to-go or do you want to hack on something?	06:02
TrueJournals	Vulcanis: I could be mistaken, but doesn't easy debian install and run in its own SD card partition? Or does that run a chroot?	06:02
Vulcanis	its a chroot	06:02
TrueJournals	Ah, it's deblet that runs on its own	06:02
Vulcanis	Probably. I cannot remember.	06:03
johnx	yeah, deblet and mer. and someone is working on gentoo (!)	06:03
Vulcanis	John: Either works.	06:03
Vulcanis	ready-to-go is probably just as good, but I'm willing to spend time making it work	06:03
TrueJournals	Vulcanis: check out deblet at http://trac.tspre.org/projects/deblet there are some pretty good instructions there	06:03
johnx	and the other question is: what do you want to run on it?	06:03
Vulcanis	Thanks, True.	06:04
Vulcanis	John: The n800 for now	06:04
TrueJournals	On it, not it on :-P	06:04
johnx	like in terms of software? :P	06:04
Vulcanis	Oh	06:04
johnx	kde? gnome? maemo UI on debian/ubuntu?	06:04
Vulcanis	run ON it, not run it on. see, I told yo uI was asleep	06:04
Vulcanis	I really have no idea currently	06:04
Vulcanis	probably whatever's fastest	06:04
johnx	just to play then?	06:04
Vulcanis	Eh, for now. Eventually I'll start using it for more.	06:05
TrueJournals	I tried deblet on my n800 a little while ago, and it worked pretty well... the only problem I had was it couldn't connect to my network with a hidden SSID...	06:05
johnx	yeah, get your feet wet with deblet for now. Hopefully we'll get closer to a proper installer for Mer soon	06:06
Vulcanis	Oh, I didn't know mer was even an option at this point. Good to know they're that far along, at least.	06:06
johnx	well, it's going to be bootable soon for playing with.	06:07
johnx	things will be missing of course	06:07
johnx	nothing is ever simple or easy :/	06:08
Vulcanis	Eh, I came into the tablet "scene" thinking that.	06:08
johnx	great	06:08
Vulcanis	so nothing new there.	06:08
click170	Hey guyz n galz. Does anyone know why I would be getting this message when I try and do an 'apt-get upgrade' or 'apt-get -f install' ? "The package metalayer-crawler0 needs to be reinstalled, but I can't find an archive for it."	06:09
Dracie	weee	06:09
Dracie	ewww*	06:09
Dracie	metalayer the battery eater	06:09
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johnx	Dracie, it doesn't anymore	06:09
Dracie	really?	06:09
Dracie	yay!	06:09
johnx	been fixed for months	06:10
Dracie	johnx i have been out of the loop for like every now	06:10
click170	Thats fantastic and all, except it doesn't seem to be ^entirely^ fixed lol. I cant do any upgrades or anything because.... I duno maybe the repo is down? That cant be it	06:10
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Dracie	wouldn't it just say then couldn't connect to (url)	06:11
johnx	click170, what version of OS2008 do you have?	06:11
click170	I believe the latest, the Diablo one ?	06:11
click170	You want a 'uname -a' ?	06:12
johnx	and did you uninstall metalayer crawler manually at some point?	06:12
click170	No, not to my knowledge	06:12
click170	this is practically a fresh install	06:12
johnx	well, that's odd	06:12
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click170	I've installed ssh, gained root access..... and installed a couple other packages like pptpclient or whatever to play with, havent gotten there yet	06:12
johnx	the other thing being that you probably don't want to apt-get upgrade, use application manager instead	06:12
click170	I tried, it told me I had an upgrade. "Great" I thought, so I tried to upgrade using App Manager. But it failed. Thusly, I dropped to CLI to actually get some debug output from the darn thing	06:13
johnx	it has a log right in the menu...	06:13
click170	Does it now	06:13
click170	News to me	06:13
click170	lol	06:13
johnx	hang on, I'll see if it's available from some repo I have setup...	06:14
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click170	ill do the upgrade through AppMan again and check the output it leaves in the in-app log	06:15
johnx	yeah, just pop back into app man and make sure the catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com repo isn't disabled or something	06:15
click170	Hm.. Now I get a different message.	06:15
johnx	metalayer-crawler comes from there	06:15
click170	The update appears much smaller, a mere 21Kb compared to the multi megabyte one before, and it says "Unable to updateOS2008 Feature upgrade. Some application packages required for the update are missing."	06:16
click170	That doesn't sound good	06:16
johnx	yeah, don't do that :)	06:16
click170	Its missing the packages bluez-utils icd2 mce mediaplayer-daemon metalayer-crawler0 ossso-obexserv and tablet-browser-daemon	06:17
johnx	ok, check that repo I asked you about	06:17
click170	what does it appear as in the Catalogs list?	06:18
click170	None of them show the url	06:18
johnx	should be called Nokia Catalog	06:18
click170	Their there and they aren't disabled	06:19
click170	they're*	06:19
johnx	ok, so from the CLI, try apt-cache policy metalayer-crawler0	06:19
click170	metalayer-crawler0:	06:21
click170	Installed: 1.3.8-1	06:21
click170	Candidate: 1.3.8-1	06:21
click170	Version table:	06:21
click170	*** 1.3.8-1 0	06:21
click170	100 /var/lib/dpkg/status	06:21
johnx	ok, well it should be coming from that http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com repo	06:21
johnx	make sure that "Nokia Catalog" has "http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com" and "Components: user"	06:22
click170	does that mean I should be seeing that url where /var/libdpkg/status is?	06:22
click170	Yep, it does.	06:22
johnx	what happens when you run apt-get update	06:22
johnx	does it update successfully?	06:22
click170	Its http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/certified/ for clarity's sake	06:23
johnx	yes	06:23
click170	http://pastebin.ca/1288323	06:25
click170	A couple failed urls	06:25
click170	nothing looks critical	06:25
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johnx	hmm	06:27
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johnx	ah, a thought :)	06:28
click170	I'm on the edge of my seat	06:28
johnx	me too	06:29
johnx	ok, I had the wrong repo I guess, the updates one has metalayer-crawler	06:29
johnx	check /etc/apt/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list	06:30
click170	You want I should pastebin it?	06:30
johnx	do you have: deb http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/updates/diablo-2/ ./	06:30
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johnx	yeah, pastebin might be good	06:30
johnx	I'll pastebin mine too	06:30
click170	http://pastebin.ca/1288327	06:31
click170	k	06:31
johnx	http://pastebin.ca/1288328	06:31
johnx	O_o	06:31
johnx	wow	06:31
johnx	that's crazy	06:31
click170	what'd I do	06:32
click170	oh	06:32
click170	I see	06:32
johnx	54 lines of repos :)	06:32
johnx	going for a record?	06:32
click170	http://www.gronmayer.com/it/index.php?lang=en&system=maemo4	06:32
click170	I didn't think it was anything special lol	06:32
johnx	you installed everything from gronmayer?	06:33
click170	What can I say, they had a 'select all' button, couldn't help myself lol	06:33
johnx	and thus your current situation. :)	06:33
click170	Figured it was the best way to get a feel for the different apps people had ported to it. Its not like the Debian repos where they are nice and centralized	06:33
johnx	it is now though	06:34
click170	Oh?	06:34
click170	Alrighty then.	06:34
johnx	almost everything in those repos is in extras or extras-devel now	06:34
click170	Sweet, I didnt know that.	06:34
johnx	and people holding out are being pressured to conform :)	06:34
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click170	I'd say people should take it upon themselves to package the apps and put them into the centralized repo instead of pushing for the app dev to do it, but hey whatever.	06:35
johnx	volunteering?	06:35
johnx	:D	06:35
click170	lol Touche	06:35
johnx	lots of people are, yes	06:35
johnx	would you do me a favor and check what version you have in control panel -> about product?	06:36
click170	Internet Tablet OS: Maemo linux based OS2008, Version: 4.2008.36-5	06:37
click170	Gremlins?	06:37
johnx	did you flash directly to that version? or did you update inside app man from an earlier diablo?	06:37
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click170	I recall applying at least one system update via Application Manager post flashing	06:38
click170	This before the system update that appears to have dropped me into this predicament	06:38
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johnx	so then you did a system update that didn't complete?	06:39
click170	Well, this one. I just tried to apply it, and it failed, then I dropped to the CLI etc etc, you know the rest	06:39
johnx	at some point you lost your entry for nokia updates	06:40
click170	Gremlins.	06:40
johnx	failed update	06:40
johnx	~40 something gremlins all starting with the word "deb" :)	06:40
click170	system updates modify the apt source files?	06:40
click170	lol	06:40
johnx	yeah, Nokia's distro != debian	06:41
johnx	they do some "clever" stuff	06:41
click170	clever. Right.	06:41
click170	Looks at the broken system in his hands	06:41
johnx	sooo, if I were you and I felt adventurous, I'd backup anything you care about, add deb http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com/updates/diablo-2/ ./	06:41
johnx	then before you open app man again, run apt-get update, apt-get -f install	06:42
click170	Fantastic. I don't have anything I care about on there yet	06:42
johnx	then just reflash	06:42
johnx	really	06:42
johnx	reflash and only add repos as you need them	06:42
click170	But that way looks much more exciting... Ill reflash if this doesnt work	06:42
johnx	fair enough	06:43
click170	where do I add that repo to?	06:43
johnx	might set yourself up for pain if something is subtly broken later though	06:43
johnx	the same list you showed me	06:43
click170	k	06:43
click170	What device do you have? I've got the N810	06:43
johnx	n800	06:43
click170	Ever considered putting Debian on it?	06:43
johnx	I did, January of 2008	06:44
click170	! Tell me, what do you think?	06:44
johnx	Working on the Mer project now, Ubuntu+Nokia's Maemo UI	06:44
johnx	here's what I think: Desktop user interfaces on touchscreen devices kind of suck	06:44
click170	Lucky for me I have the n810 with the tactile keyboard, otherwise I wouldn't have gotten an internet tablet. Its main purpose for me is as a portable terminal	06:45
johnx	and getting decent battery life while using apps not designed with power savings in mind is just really difficult	06:45
johnx	if you're really just going to be on the CLI the whole time, and you're willing to suspend-to-RAM instead of keeping the tablet always-on, then yeah, debian might be an option for you	06:47
pupnik_	click170: customized your keymap yet?.	06:47
click170	pupnik_: No. Have you? What did you change?	06:47
pupnik_	added \| and tab	06:48
click170	johnx: Debian and suspend-to-ram? Isn't that taboo or something? lol	06:48
click170	I've never tried it	06:48
johnx	should work with some hacking	06:48
pupnik_	brb foodz nom nom	06:48
click170	pupnik_: what did you map them to?	06:48
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pupnik_	click170: tab=fn+space, \|=fn+z	07:08
pupnik_	there was a nice blog post about it	07:08
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serrano	I have just upgraded my N800 with the last system upgrade (by clicking this damn orange icon) and my N800 is no longer able to connect to the wifi!!! I'm I the only one facing this problem. It there any one here with a suggestion? Thanks in advance.	08:17
* sp3000 can't find any references to that		08:26
sp3000	but things like symlinks in mydocs had an issue with the earlier update	08:26
sp3000	"apt-get -f install" probably finished the upgrade, and "flash-and-reboot" eventually to install a downloaded kernel update	08:28
sp3000	ah, bug 3750	08:29
serrano	Sorry I don't understand you. It is this an answer to my question? (I feel stupid, sorry)...	08:32
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serrano	I don't know if this is related to my problem but "apt-get -f install" fails with "E: The package metalayer-crawler0 needs to be reinstalled, but I can't find an archvie for it."	08:35
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dick-richardson	anyone having problems w/openssh and the latest firmware?	08:42
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kleist	hello all, is there an IRC client for the N810 ?	08:59
qwerty12	xchat which is in extras	08:59
qwerty12	*diablo extras	08:59
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kleist	wow - thx	09:00
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Meiz_n810	what's the difference between osso-software-version-rx44 and the unlocked one?	09:40
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qwerty12	unlocked uses >= as opposed to = (normal one) so you can install higher versions of system stuff without apt-get going all screwy on you about dependencies	09:40
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Meiz_n810	k	09:43
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StsN800	GAN800, quim mailed that its forwarded to legal btw, and proposals are better off in wiki than trying to make legal join mailing list;)	10:17
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johnx	hey StsN800	10:29
johnx	how goes the apartment cleaning? :D	10:30
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StsN800	not out of bed yet	10:30
johnx	ahaha	10:30
RST38h	moo, johnx, sts	10:30
johnx	I need coffee before I can even cope with IRC. I guess I've degenerated more than you :)	10:30
johnx	m00f RST38h	10:30
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StsN800	johnx: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-community/2008-December/002813.html	10:33
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StsN800	has been fwded to legal	10:34
johnx	an interesting solution	10:34
johnx	also something we wouldn't be able to do if we wanted to be part of debian/ubuntu	10:35
johnx	I mean, I think we made the right choice in being autonomous because it leaves us these options	10:35
StsN800	well this is just for the specialized nokia images	10:35
johnx	well yeah, but the ubuntu (and especially) debian guys would probably have a fit over something so non-free	10:36
StsN800	you can do a lot of solutions with this model	10:36
StsN800	f.x user downloadable tar.gz of firmware	10:37
StsN800	and a mer release wouldn't require being run on maemo.org	10:38
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* RST38h makes a suggestion on where to stick those debian guys		10:39
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StsN800	but if we want to add closed bits, it has to be generated on maemo.org	10:39
johnx	RST38h, it's good to have people pushing for "freeness" to counteract all the commercial interests	10:40
StsN800	it also makes it possible to retrieve a common kernel plus initfs with closed bits, so all dists don't have to limit on functionality cos their os is fully oss	10:41
RST38h	johnx: religious fervor is never good	10:42
johnx	Stskeeps, good point as well	10:42
StsN800	cos we'd see a long time waiting if we had to wait for relicensing of hw vendor firmwar	10:42
johnx	RST38h, you're right of course, but not everyone interested in free software is a zealot, even some of the people who are "far left" :)	10:43
RST38h	johnx: I specifically mean the debian cabal	10:44
RST38h	not everyone	10:44
johnx	RST38h, and I'm saying, not everyone involved with Debian is automatically a zealot	10:44
johnx	some of them are just being practical about things and taking the longer view	10:44
StsN800	its just the zealots wjo	10:45
johnx	Stskeeps and I are of course heretics taking the short term view. :) maybe hedonists	10:45
StsN800	who are most noticable	10:45
RST38h	satanists maybe? =)	10:45
johnx	resurrecting dead ARM hardware with arcane rituals and incantations in the middle of the night? does sound familiar	10:46
StsN800	i am willing to sell my soul, yes	10:46
derf	Is anyone willing to buy?	10:46
johnx	heh, I'm not selling my soul. I'm keeping it locked up in a safe in case I want to use it later. keeps it clean too :D	10:46
RST38h	In order to make a good cybersatanist you should resurrect at least an IBM370	10:47
johnx	RST38h, http://www.strangehorizons.com/2004/20040405/badger.shtml	10:47
RST38h	dead ARM hardware makes you that Reanomator movie guy, at best	10:47
RST38h	Reanimator, sorry	10:47
RST38h	johnx: Umgh	10:48
johnx	did you miss that 4 years ago?	10:48
johnx	it's classic	10:48
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StsN800	if i had a bt keyboard i wouldn't get out of bed except for nutritution	10:48
RST38h	I vaguely remember it	10:48
johnx	StsN800, let me guess: cold apartment?	10:49
RST38h	Sts: you forgot something.	10:49
StsN800	johnx, yes	10:49
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StsN800	atm	10:49
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StsN800	RST38h, and bathroom, true	10:50
johnx	yeah, coming from the US I was not reading for the world without central heating running all the time	10:50
johnx	s/reading/ready/	10:51
infobot	johnx meant: yeah, coming from the US I was not ready for the world without central heating running all the time	10:51
StsN800	sideeffect of gf not wanting server standing in apt means it gets loads colder	10:52
RST38h	johnx: Funnily, I never had central heating inthe US	10:52
derf	johnx: It would work better if not for the paper-thin walls.	10:52
RST38h	johnx: It was always an AC/Heating unit	10:53
johnx	derf, I am luckily in a brand shiny new apartment with halfway decent heat retention	10:53
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johnx	RST38h, don't you love the idea of a heating unit up by the ceiling? sooo useful	10:53
derf	That's crazy talk. I assume they still do stuff like vent the bathroom directly to the outside.	10:53
johnx	or did you have a window-mounted one?	10:53
johnx	derf, yeah :(	10:54
johnx	and I didn't spring for a heated seat	10:54
derf	God bless the Japanese.	10:54
RST38h	johnx: for me, it was usually the wrong temp relay location	10:54
Jaffa	Morning, all	10:54
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RST38h	johnx: never managed to maintain correct temperature throughout the house	10:55
johnx	RST38h, I have an AC unit basically inches from the 10ft high ceiling	10:55
johnx	works great for AC, does nothing for heating the place	10:55
RST38h	johnx: Route a huge pipe! =)	10:55
pupnik	just run more computers	10:55
johnx	the south facing window saves me though	10:55
* RST38h has got water heating now		10:55
RST38h	Works like a charm	10:55
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johnx	I will never rent/buy a place without a south facing window (N latitude)	10:56
RST38h	noooooooo...	10:56
pupnik	good point johnx	10:56
derf	South facing window is like free money.	10:56
RST38h	btw, why SOUTH facing and not WEST or EAST?	10:57
derf	Because it's cold in the _winter_.	10:57
derf	When the sun is always in the south.	10:57
johnx	RST38h, because the sun is always to the south at NOON	10:57
RST38h	Ah	10:57
RST38h	ok	10:57
johnx	and I get sunlight from sunrise to sunset through some kind of incredible good luck in street layout	10:58
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* RST38h absolutely hates direct sunlight through windows. Makes summer unbearable.		10:59
johnx	curtains	10:59
johnx	you put them between you and the sun	10:59
johnx	I can draw a diagram	10:59
RST38h	no light then =)	11:00
RST38h	at all.	11:00
johnx	au contraire	11:00
johnx	two sets, one that's semi-transparent, one that's "black-out"	11:00
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RST38h	ah	11:00
RST38h	way to complicated for me =)	11:00
johnx	came with the apt	11:00
johnx	never would have thought of it :D	11:00
johnx	and had no idea what direction the window was facing either until I tried to figure out why I was getting such nice sunlight last winter	11:01
johnx	ahaha	11:01
RST38h	lucky	11:02
johnx	very much so. looks like I'm paying off my luck-debt this month though :/	11:03
johnx	I was wondering what would happened if I burned too much of it	11:03
* RST38h read "lcuk-debt"		11:03
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johnx	heh, I do owe him a beer I'm sure	11:04
Stskeeps	mm, laptop, coffee and breakfast.	11:04
Stskeeps	johnx: any luck on memtest?	11:04
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johnx	Stskeeps, yeah, ran fine for 7 hours with a size of 32MB	11:05
Stskeeps	mm	11:05
johnx	zaurus was nice and warm	11:05
Stskeeps	solar flare measurements?	11:05
Stskeeps	:P	11:05
johnx	I'm telling you, this has got to be in one of the libs or gcc	11:05
johnx	that last idea scares me though	11:05
Stskeeps	yeah	11:06
RST38h	Sharp stopped making them, just days ago	11:06
johnx	well, they've been winding down for a couple years	11:06
RST38h	sapwood bug?	11:06
RST38h	if it is gcc, there is relatively easy way to test it	11:06
johnx	RST38h, ok, shoot	11:06
RST38h	recompile for the oldest ARM arch it supports, optimizations off	11:07
RST38h	see if the resulting binary runs well	11:07
johnx	yeah, the noopt build had issues	11:07
johnx	well, the noopt build of gtk+ had issues	11:08
RST38h	if it does, gradually up arch type until you reach your target arch	11:08
johnx	that's the other problem: the sapwood code looks way to simple for a bug like this to hide in	11:08
RST38h	johnx: You can do the same with optimizations on	11:08
johnx	then I already did the test	11:08
derf	johnx: I've been able to trip gcc compiler bugs on ARM with _extremely_ simple code.	11:08
johnx	debian's version is baseline armv4t EAVI	11:09
derf	3.4.4 is basically unusable, it's so bad.	11:09
johnx	EABI I mean of course	11:09
derf	I have no idea how the system runs at all.	11:09
johnx	well, this is across multiple versions of gcc 4.x	11:09
derf	Okay. 4.x has been much better, for me.	11:09
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johnx	anyways, free shell access for anyone who wants to see this creepy problem :)	11:10
derf	I'm just saying that it doesn't take complex code to trip gcc up.	11:10
Stskeeps	johnx: mm, im pondering if we can do any sort of buffer overrun detection	11:11
derf	Like, I think almost every version of gcc until maybe 4.2 mis-optimized -abs(x) as abs(-x).	11:11
Stskeeps	heh	11:11
Stskeeps	that's bad	11:11
derf	Yet no one noticed!	11:11
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derf	I think it was actually more subtle, like -abs(x) worked, but y-abs(x) was transformed to y+abs(-x).	11:12
Stskeeps	heh	11:12
Stskeeps	johnx: yes, ssh would be nice :P i have an hour to blow anyway	11:14
Stskeeps	got gdb and such?	11:14
johnx	yup, I'll give you root anyways	11:14
Stskeeps	k	11:15
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Stskeeps	so we have the following bug: 100% sapwood server, and which?	11:15
derf	Ah, no, it was -constantabs(x) got transformed to abs(-constantx), but y-constant*abs(x) worked as expected.	11:15
johnx	thanks for looking at this by the way :)	11:15
derf	http://gcc.gnu.org/bugzilla/show_bug.cgi?id=34130	11:15
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johnx	the easiest one to reproduce with very little code seems to be having sapwood load any image file	11:15
Stskeeps	derf: sounds like a lovely bug	11:15
X-Fade	Stskeeps: If Nokia legal is slow, we can always make a script which downloads the firmware image, extracts the goodies and repacks a new MER firmware image.	11:16
johnx	the png isn't loaded and the widget of course fails to draw correctly	11:16
X-Fade	Stskeeps: At the user's local machine..	11:16
Stskeeps	X-Fade: yeah, - but still need some degree of licensing for that :P	11:16
Stskeeps	if we go completely by the book	11:16
X-Fade	Stskeeps: Well technically the user just downloads the image..	11:16
X-Fade	But yeah..	11:16
Stskeeps	tablets-dev isn't a maemo.org site is it? .. not sure how tightly knit it is :)	11:17
X-Fade	Although there has been talk to relicense a lot of things, so I think it will come..	11:17
Stskeeps	yeah	11:17
X-Fade	Stskeeps: tablets-dev is deliberately a Nokia site.	11:17
Stskeeps	nod	11:17
X-Fade	I don't have access to that one for instance.	11:17
Stskeeps	X-Fade: quim forwarded it to legal (sent a private mail to me), so we'll see what happens	11:18
X-Fade	To keep a clear separation.	11:18
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Stskeeps	they might be slightly more inclined towards maemo.org than towards X weird project :P	11:18
X-Fade	Stskeeps: As I replied on the list, we can set that up easily.	11:18
Stskeeps	yep	11:18
X-Fade	Just need the OK ;)	11:18
X-Fade	And it seems that everything shuts down the coming 2 weeks, so ;)	11:19
Jaffa	lardman's points about compatibility will be more important	11:19
* Jaffa doesn't want to see lots of ITT threads saying "well, just install the Mer image" if it's not diablo or fremantle compatible to a large extent. That's exactly the split which would break things.		11:19
Jaffa	Of course, if Mer is good enough to be considered a Maemo 5 HE, then I'm less worried	11:20
Stskeeps	Jaffa: obviously, and i would hate that situation myself	11:20
X-Fade	Yeah, and we don't want to recompile everything either.	11:20
Stskeeps	being able to actually put it out for testing legally will help too :P	11:20
X-Fade	Although we might want to think about how we will separate downloads.	11:20
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Stskeeps	but in this very minor case, it's stuff like firmware i'm targetting	11:20
X-Fade	For instance Fremantle/N900 and Fremantle/MER ?	11:21
Stskeeps	X-Fade: think we'll just claim Fremantle != Mer, but Mer includes some fremantle components	11:21
X-Fade	The downloads sections needs a big reorg..	11:21
Stskeeps	fremantle is nokia's offering	11:21
Stskeeps	and if we design things right, if you write for maemo platform, you write for mer as well	11:21
X-Fade	Stskeeps: Well, we can setup a mer target in the autobuilder too.	11:22
Stskeeps	true	11:22
Stskeeps	but honestly, it's all a big unknown right now, but i know where i would like it to go	11:22
X-Fade	So if one uploads the application to the autobuilder, it gets build on your sdk too ;)	11:22
Stskeeps	nod	11:23
Stskeeps	i still have to figure out what to do about i386 sdk. sb is kinda odd when it comes to just working as a glorified chroot	11:23
X-Fade	It would be pretty awesome if the community could get that whole thing to work though..	11:23
Stskeeps	hehe. i'm even impressed with how much people make work of our quite not-so-easy-to-setup demo image	11:24
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X-Fade	Stskeeps: Imagine what you will get if you do get the image ;)	11:25
Stskeeps	yeah.. that's what we're warming up to atm	11:25
X-Fade	Stskeeps: But there is nothing stopping you for making the firmware image for private use ;)	11:25
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Stskeeps	yeah - meiz did this with themes and icons and such	11:26
Stskeeps	http://trac.tspre.org/meiz/Screenshot-10.png	11:26
Stskeeps	i could really be fooled.	11:26
X-Fade	Can anybody confirm that bug #3566 hasn't been fixed in the last SSU?	11:27
X-Fade	Yeah..	11:27
Stskeeps	X-Fade: think GA had similar problem	11:27
X-Fade	I reopened it anyway :)	11:27
RST38h	X-Fade: It did not disable Extras for me	11:28
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RST38h	(if you mean the last ssu of course)	11:28
Stskeeps	it probably looks for GA's MAC to see if it should irritate him :>	11:28
X-Fade	RST38h: What do you have in the distribution field of that catalog?	11:29
X-Fade	RST38h: Mine is empty.	11:29
RST38h	mine is empty too and that is correct	11:31
X-Fade	RST38h: And the Catalog name? "maemo Extras"	11:31
RST38h	yes	11:32
X-Fade	Weird..	11:32
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woglinde	hi	11:55
johnx	hi	11:56
Belagern	hi	11:56
woglinde	does some have a kernel and modules with mppe enabled?	11:56
woglinde	actual one	11:56
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woglinde	hms	12:00
woglinde	cant flash here	12:00
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woglinde	okay	12:02
woglinde	bye	12:02
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jagernot	morning all. im trying to upload my boxar app into extras. ive got the invite but my pgp key is invalid says the account maintenance page.	12:04
jagernot	any ideas/	12:04
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X-Fade	jagernot: does your key depend on other keys?	12:04
jagernot	thanks X-Fade. i dont know. i just followed the instructions over at uploading to extras wiki page. how do i find out anyway?	12:05
X-Fade	And is you clock set correctly?	12:05
jagernot	clock shows current time over here	12:05
X-Fade	Ok ;)	12:06
X-Fade	Can you mail me the key you pasted in the form? niels at maemo.	12:06
X-Fade	That way I can see why it isn't accepted.	12:07
lcuk	johnx, RST38h ooooh yeah you can both pay off my debts :D	12:07
lcuk	hi jager, X-Fade	12:07
johnx	lcuk, ha! I'll buy you a beer. that's the limit of my generosity	12:08
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lcuk	X-Fade, why is december shutting down for 2 weeks any different to you recently :P	12:08
lcuk	johnx, ok ill bill you for the flight over to come pick it up	12:08
X-Fade	lcuk: I didn't. Was down for a few days, but worked from bed. Just didn't feel like answering mails :)	12:08
johnx	lcuk, that would be like the least successful billing attempt ever :P	12:09
lcuk	heh, "working from bed" good job we know you are technical	12:09
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lcuk	of course not johnx, i would bill you easily but whether you listen is another issue :P	12:10
johnx	lcuk, even if I wanted to pay for some strange reason my bank would laugh at me :P	12:10
lcuk	your bank manager has hand hovering over trapdoor button whenever you are near :D sounds just like mine	12:11
lcuk	anyway, cant stop. jagernot, you generate your pgp key in normal linux outside of scratchbox otherwise you end up with something invalid	12:12
lcuk	it moaned at me multiple times until i did it directly from the standard console on ubuntu	12:13
lcuk	anyway, byeeeeeeeeeeeeeee	12:13
johnx	'later lcuk	12:13
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jagernot	hi X-fade: i have emailed you my key	12:15
jagernot	lcuk, i did it outside scratchbox..	12:15
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X-Fade	jagernot: ok, the problem was that this key has 4 keys in it ;)	12:17
jagernot	4 keys?!	12:18
jagernot	how..	12:18
X-Fade	jagernot: 5C997937, 4979134E, FE078C2E, B6BF845E	12:18
* jagernot scratches his head		12:18
X-Fade	I have imported it manually now.	12:18
X-Fade	jagernot: I'll set your account to 'Accepted'.	12:19
jagernot	no wait ..	12:19
jagernot	which key should i use?	12:19
X-Fade	jagernot: Please set your ssh key here: https://garage.maemo.org/account/index2.php	12:19
X-Fade	Any of the 4 ;)	12:20
X-Fade	There were 3 keys for you already imported on the 15th..	12:20
X-Fade	And one now on the 18th.	12:20
X-Fade	1024D/B6BF845E is the last one.	12:21
jagernot	how did u get the key ids the 5C997937 etc?	12:21
jagernot	yeah i tried 3 times on 15th and once now and it said all invalid while accepting it?!	12:21
X-Fade	jagernot: It seems that it only accepts one key at a time.	12:22
X-Fade	So if you would have tried another time, it would have succeeded ;)	12:22
jagernot	anyhow so if i use the last one it will let me upload i assume?	12:22
X-Fade	Yes.	12:22
jagernot	ok thanks X-fade for your help	12:22
jagernot	i will let u know :)	12:23
X-Fade	jagernot: np.	12:23
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RST38h	http://exiledonline.com/america-needs-a-new-religion-lets-pick-a-pantheon/all/1/	12:31
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aquatix	all of you installed the latest update already?	12:44
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Meiz_n810	jagernot: u alive??	12:46
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jagernot	yes Mei	12:50
jagernot	wassup	12:50
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Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: ping	12:54
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jagernot	Meiz_n810: i see you want me..how can i help	12:58
click170	I just tried to do a system update, and the message I got is "Unable to update OS2008 Feature upgrade. Update file corrupted."	12:58
Stskeeps	click170: better than getting reboot loops :P	12:59
johnx	click170, reflash!	12:59
click170	I just did... this is literally a fresh install.	13:00
click170	It could only be fresher out of the box lol	13:00
johnx	ah	13:00
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click170	Im trying again, its redownloading. I'm skeptical.	13:00
johnx	why didn't you just flash up to the latest one?	13:00
click170	Well if this doesn't work thats going to be the next step isn't it	13:01
Stskeeps	yeah	13:01
Stskeeps	:P	13:01
click170	anyone have the link to the page for the image download?	13:01
Stskeeps	tablets-dev.nokia.com	13:01
johnx	http://tabletsdev.maemo.org/	13:01
johnx	either works I guess	13:01
click170	cheers	13:01
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click170	anyone care to volunteer their opinion of Maemo's Skype? I was in a call earlier, a long call, the call ended, and some time later I noticed the cpu was still pinned. It looked Skype related... its also never happened before	13:03
johnx	been using it for almost 2 years	13:04
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Stskeeps	click170: i use it to talk to my gf in berlin, seems to work "ok" :P	13:05
johnx	my onl complaint is call quality sometimes being crap depending on the internet connection and also unrelated factors	13:05
johnx	s/unrelated/unknown/	13:05
infobot	johnx meant: my onl complaint is call quality sometimes being crap depending on the internet connection and also unknown factors	13:05
click170	call quality I definetly noticed. I was wondering if it was the Mic	13:05
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* pcfe prefers the SIP client, works like a charm.		13:05
johnx	I use a bt headset	13:05
pcfe	call quality with the N800 provided headset is impeccable	13:06
johnx	certainly not up to the quality of 3G voice, but it's the right price	13:06
click170	I use Skype on my Macbook, and the quality is perfect, so I can cross off 'internet connection'. Whatever though, it works	13:06
pcfe	call quality on both Skype and SIP will go down dramatically on bad connections (low bandwidth or, worse, high latency)	13:06
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pcfe	when using SIP and having a router that does l7 filtering, it helps tremendously to prioritise the traffic	13:07
click170	Do you have a suggestion for that pcfe?	13:07
pcfe	click170: does your router run openWRT?	13:07
click170	I use a linux box as my gateway.	13:07
pcfe	click170: standard kernel does not have the l7 filtering patches. You can do two things	13:08
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pcfe	1) apply the patches and have the pain to re-apply them at each kernel update	13:08
pcfe	2) cheat (I do that) and just prioritise the IPs of all devices you do SIP on	13:08
click170	pcfe I use Debian, not some silly bleeding edge distro like Ubuntu, kernel updates arent a problem.	13:08
click170	pcfe: I was hoping you had a script of program loll cool though	13:09
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pcfe	but 2) works well for me as I have one device that does nothing but SIP, so fine to prioritise all it's traffic and the N800 does not hoover so much bandwith that it would matter that it's prioritised (i.e. will not distuirb anything else)	13:09
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pcfe	click170: I can dig out the wondershaper instructions for fedora, they should apply to debian provided you do not expect the packages to install to have the same name, but that's what apt-cache serach is for	13:10
pcfe	mompls	13:10
click170	Meh, been there done that got the wondershaper t-shirt. wasnt impressed	13:10
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pcfe	http://www.harald-hoyer.de/linux/traffic-control	13:10
pcfe	that's the script	13:10
pcfe	tagging [ackets via iptables must be done otherwise tc does not know what to do obviously	13:11
pcfe	click170: alternative (debian build tools are quite OK to apply patches) is to get l7-filter from sourceforge	13:11
click170	... are you sure? I thought tc can classify traffic on its own based on things like source address	13:11
pcfe	click170: and then extract the filter script from the OpenWRT wiki and adjust it to your box (should be not too hard)	13:12
click170	l7 filter, are you talking about QoS, as in the TOS field in the packet header?	13:12
pcfe	click170: could be, I tag them with iptables and then let tc work with the tags	13:13
pcfe	click170: yes, but not QOS in a way that you depend on the next upstream router to understand it, but rather so that your own router knows to prioritise certain packet types over others	13:13
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fnordianslip	hi all, is there an updated bootmenu.deb from penguinbait yet for latest SSU, or is none required and current one will do? Reading itT implies that an updated one is needed, but not yet available	13:19
Stskeeps	nop, he's not out with it yet	13:20
Stskeeps	both fanoush's and my .deb version with bootmenu.d items is out	13:20
GAN800	X-Fade, m-vo mentioned something about it being FIXED but the fix will only take effect after the second update.	13:22
fnordianslip	Stskeeps: ah ok. i noticed your deb and gave it a whirl, but it didn't pick up on my root fs on my mmc1. Do I have to manually edit something with yours to put the menu entry in?	13:22
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X-Fade	GAN800: Yes, I have been corrected already ;)	13:22
X-Fade	GAN800: I should have read the bug history again. Duh...	13:23
* GAN800 stabs tz		13:23
GAN800	He's completely ignored the fact that he put a non-user/ package in user/	13:23
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Stskeeps	fnordianslip: yeah, make a .item in /etc/bootmenu.d/NAME.item , on the following form (http://rafb.net/p/MQyCaY80.html)	13:24
Stskeeps	and run refresh_bootmenu.d	13:24
GAN800	We really need a unified bootmenu	13:24
Stskeeps	next time a SSU destroys your bootmenu, simply install the new .deb, install bootmenu, and your items are back	13:24
GAN800	3 options that basically do little more than confuse people. . . .	13:25
fnordianslip	Stskeeps: tnx. will have a go.	13:25
Stskeeps	i've tried prodding penguinbait about adopting bootmenu.d, but it was a bit like banging my head into a table with needles laying about on it.	13:25
johnx	GAN800, you're right! I'll design a 4th "unified" bootmenu that's better!	13:25
fnordianslip	lord of the bootmenus ?	13:26
Stskeeps	GAN800: saw my comment that quim has passed the proposal on to legal?	13:26
GAN800	Stskeeps, yeah	13:26
Stskeeps	k	13:26
GAN800	johnx, assuming it invalidates all three others, yeah. . . . :/	13:27
Stskeeps	johnx: i'm personally waiting for solca's :P	13:27
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johnx	GAN800, well, no. it will just be incompatible and called "unified"	13:29
GAN800	johnx, do you actually prefer having to troubleshoot for a bunch of different bootmenus (where'd all that sarcasm come from :\)?	13:30
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Stskeeps	johnx: the zaurus runs well now?	13:33
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johnx	Stskeeps, you left that fixed sapwood installed right?	13:34
Stskeeps	yeah	13:34
Stskeeps	in /root/p/v	13:34
johnx	I'll play a little bit more then	13:34
Stskeeps	k	13:34
Stskeeps	johnx: i'm really afraid to actually submit the patch for sapwood though as i'm entirely unsure why the heck this thing happens as per my knowledge, shit like this shouldn't happen :P	13:35
Stskeeps	maybe the PXA has a bad ushort->uint conversation	13:35
GAN800	Somebody should probably file an enhancement for an interface to change boot images without them being trashed every update.	13:35
johnx	well if something similar was actually happening on the 770...	13:35
johnx	GAN800, now that will definitely go straight to "fixed in fremantle"	13:36
Stskeeps	yeah, wasn't the initfs flashing shot down like that?	13:36
Stskeeps	GAN800: the idea solca's working on with kexec and such can help a lot of these problems :P	13:37
* Stskeeps ponders idly		13:38
GAN800	johnx, well, of course, but since I'm planning on buying an RX-51. ;)	13:38
* Stskeeps glares idly at the ipaq sitting on top of his router		13:39
johnx	Stskeeps, 320x240, right?	13:39
Stskeeps	true	13:39
Stskeeps	and armv4	13:40
Stskeeps	i think	13:40
Stskeeps	ARM SA1110 is armv4 isn't it?	13:40
johnx	yeah	13:40
Stskeeps	k	13:40
johnx	right before the "t"	13:40
johnx	so, no EABI for that little thing	13:41
Stskeeps	what does a zaurus have anyway?	13:42
johnx	depends: there were lots	13:43
Stskeeps	.. yours, then	13:43
johnx	I have a 5500 with a SA1100	13:43
mgedmin	the SSU update error message is braindead	13:43
johnx	and the one I want maemo on is a C1000 with a PXA270	13:43
towo	Just dist-upgrade from the shell.	13:43
mgedmin	if it needs libc6 =2.5.0-1osso9 because libc6-dbg requires that exact version, it shouldn't say libc6 is "missing"	13:44
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johnx	dist-upgrade is not recommended	13:44
GAN800	mgedmin, yes, everybody (including Nokia) knows the error reporting sucks.	13:44
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GAN800	towo, dist-upgrade with the SDK repo enabled == brick	13:45
mgedmin	do they know how to fix it?	13:45
* Stskeeps just upgraded the components he was interested in, one at a time, since he royally messed up his syste		13:45
Stskeeps	m	13:45
GAN800	towo, please don't recommend it.	13:45
mgedmin	apt-brick dist-upgrade	13:45
* mgedmin declines to make a backup before the SSU upgrade, because It Will Surely Just Work(TM)		13:45
GAN800	mgedmin, make the errors more accurate? By 'they' you mean 'Marius', so yes.	13:46
Stskeeps	johnx: we should -definately- name our unstable release 'brick'	13:46
johnx	GAN800, bleh. :P calling something recoverable a brick is confusing	13:46
mgedmin	true	13:46
johnx	Stskeeps, yeah, I have all these neat logo ideas :D	13:46
mgedmin	soft-brick?	13:46
GAN800	johnx, shorter than reboot loop and I'm tired of this finger keyboard atm.	13:46
towo	GAN800: Well, yes, but then again, who in their right minds has the SDK catalogue selected and no clue how to upgrade?	13:46
johnx	GAN800, b0rken	13:46
mgedmin	towo: people who believe the advice they get on the Internet, of course	13:47
johnx	towo, potentially people you're giving advice to	13:47
johnx	fring enables the sdk catalog, yes?	13:47
lcuk	hiya marius :) hope you are well. just flying past and spotted you	13:47
* lardman wonders why install files which enable repos seem to create new ones (they probably search for matching repo names, not details)		13:47
GAN800	towo, people who tap on Fring's .install for one.	13:47
mgedmin	hi, lcuk	13:47
towo	Uuuh.	13:47
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GAN800	lardman, correct.	13:48
towo	Well, someone should say hello to the fring guys then..	13:48
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GAN800	towo, I've tried and failed on several occassions.	13:48
mgedmin	irc just helped me (yay searchable irc logs, I should thank whoever's responsible for them ;-)	13:48
johnx	also, lots of people might have it enabled by accident or because someone else was giving them advice	13:48
Stskeeps	the seperation of tools and os is stupid anyhow	13:48
Stskeeps	:P	13:48
mgedmin	so I though I'd participate more actively for an hour or two	13:48
* towo has to remember the phrase Death used in Hogfather... "But what if they hurt themselves?" "THAT WILL BE A VALUABLE LESSON."		13:48
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mgedmin	which, unfortunately, means more sarcastic comments for y'all	13:48
lcuk	mgedmin, don't advertise them too much ;)	13:49
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* mgedmin learned the value of saving the file you're editing every 30 seconds after a valuable lesson like that		13:49
johnx	towo, if they hurt themselves, great. if you give them advice on this channel that breaks things, not great.	13:49
towo	I learnt that back in the days on a 486, when Master of Magic crashed after two hours of gaming.	13:49
towo	johnx: Truth be told, I didn't know about the SDK-nonbooting.	13:50
johnx	right, "now you know!" :D	13:50
* lcuk wonders what the load average of mg.pov.lt is :P		13:50
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mgedmin	lcuk: 1.11, 0.60, 0.37	13:51
* GAN800 wonders why #3933 is crit/high		13:52
lcuk	gosh darn it, bbl. not bad, must do more	13:52
mgedmin	yay, the SSU added a contacts applet on my desktop, unasked	13:52
mgedmin	how helpful	13:52
RST38h	always does that	13:52
towo	reconfig of the hildon package for the desktop	13:52
towo	adds default conf.	13:52
towo	johnx: Then again, one could expect that, since it's like inviting experimental unto your Debian box, but then again, it shouldn't happen when installing normal software like Fring..	13:52
johnx	towo, right. and other people providing advice may tell users to enable sdk repo to get a certain program	13:53
johnx	there are other ways for a dist-upgrade to go wrong too, and there are lots of other repos users could have enabled	13:54
*** krau[away] is now known as krau		13:55
GAN800	Somebody want to dive in on this one? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3930	13:56
GAN800	I'm quite certain that's no blocker.	13:56
GAN800	The summary is inaccurate, too.	13:57
Stskeeps	isn't it about lynching those who put wrong bluez-utils in user/?	13:57
GAN800	libc6, so it's the -dev or -dbg version of the package that needs to be uninstalled	13:58
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GAN800	But, yes, somebody needs to go kill tz on -developers for trying to blame Nokia for his own screw up.	13:59
lardman	GAN800: prepare your verbal salvo then	14:00
* Stskeeps ponders how hildon would do as a netbook distro		14:00
Stskeeps	got an old via c3 machine i want to try	14:00
GAN800	lardman, I'd need a real keyboard first. :p	14:01
lardman	lol	14:01
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lardman	I don't really understand what he's saying	14:03
lardman	there's 7 in the repo, but 6 is installed by the update?	14:03
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lardman	what's the url of the sdk repo?	14:06
lardman	hmm, that is curious, the update has installed bluez-utils-3.28-0osso6 while the repo contains bluez-utils-3.28.-0osso7	14:08
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click170	Anyone know of a way to mount an nfs share from maemo?	14:09
* mgedmin had a reaction like lardman's: what in heck was that email was trying to say?		14:10
lardman	for one thing his dep issue can be sorted out with judicious use of >= in the control file	14:13
lardman	but the rest of the email does have some meaning, as there's no source for the installed version of bluez-utils	14:13
lardman	that's my take on it anyway, after some thought and searching too!	14:13
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johnx	it's always annoying when the people with the least to say end up getting so much attention :/	14:19
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Stskeeps	hm, does mytube etc use flash plugin?	14:22
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johnx	nope	14:22
johnx	it extracts flv streams	14:22
johnx	AFAIK	14:22
GAN800	mplayer	14:23
Stskeeps	alright	14:23
johnx	ah, just passes the whole swf to mplayer lets it cope?	14:23
Stskeeps	just pondering about quim's reply with regards to 3rd party. would something along the lines of updates repo do the trick for 3rd party nokia stuff?	14:23
Stskeeps	.. one way to deal with that problem i guess	14:23
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lardman	otherwise each user would need to extract those items from an image	14:25
* aquatix upgrades to latest OS update		14:25
lardman	which could be automated	14:25
Stskeeps	mm.	14:25
Stskeeps	updates repo is much easier, exists already ;>	14:26
lardman	true, does it contain all of the binaries in question, or just those that have been updated?	14:26
Stskeeps	it contains everything, i believe	14:26
lardman	fair enough, sounds ideal then	14:27
lardman	the other option is the sdk binaries package I suppose	14:27
Stskeeps	mm?	14:27
lcuk	om nom nom: the food for this winter is baked potatoes :)	14:27
aquatix	ooh	14:28
lcuk	wont these repositories with nokia specific distro stuff on the updates be on nokias servers, and technically they could filter out requests which werent coming from default stock maemo image	14:28
aquatix	lcuk: mixes well with bacon ;)	14:28
lcuk	ill try that aquatix but ive had a bit of a fetish recently for jakcets with cheese n beans	14:29
aquatix	heh :)	14:29
Stskeeps	lcuk: i think that's how it's supposed to work but it's not very damn well hidden..	14:29
* aquatix isn't that fond of beans		14:30
lcuk	hidden or not reading the mail from quim makes me feel we would have problems trying to automate inclusion of nokia licensed code	14:30
lcuk	ie the flash player etc	14:30
lcuk	aquatix, beans are good for you	14:30
Stskeeps	lcuk: yeah, that's why i went "3rd parties?" in my original mail	14:31
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lcuk	yes agreed	14:31
aquatix	lcuk: good for the afterburner effect too ;)	14:31
aquatix	goddamn	14:31
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lcuk	Stskeeps, it is almost as if we would have to negotiate and obtain licenses from the 3rd parties themselves	14:31
* aquatix was updating his tablet from ssh		14:31
aquatix	Stopping Internet Connectivity daemon 2: icd2	14:32
aquatix	sigh	14:32
lcuk	who wants to contact adobe?	14:32
timeless	what's wrong w/ adobe?	14:32
lcuk	nothing at all	14:32
Stskeeps	lcuk: well.	14:33
RST38h	þÄÒØÏ	14:33
fnordianslip	Stskeeps: Thanks for the info above...now updated both installs and booting nicely of the card, although I made life hard for myself and did everything in the most inefficient order, requiring much faffing around	14:33
RST38h	Flash	14:33
click170	are you kidding? "whats wrong with adobe?" lol	14:33
lcuk	we are discussing inclusion of 3rd party stuff in mer which is extracted from the maemo default	14:33
Stskeeps	lcuk: if we can get distribution ability with wifi firmware, that's enough	14:33
Stskeeps	(and bluetooth)	14:33
RST38h	while(gettimeofday()<something) {} <== that is what is wrong with adobe	14:33
Stskeeps	of the 3rd party stuff	14:33
timeless	hey, i talk w/ adobe at times, quite a few people	14:33
timeless	and they're fairly responsive/friendly :)	14:33
* timeless wonders if they fixed the last issue		14:34
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Stskeeps	yeah, hmm, weren't there coming a ARM port of flash or something?	14:34
Stskeeps	according to rumours	14:34
lcuk	timeless, agreed, most people are	14:34
Stskeeps	(i know maemo has one, but a public one)	14:34
suihkulokki	lcuk: http://www.adobe.com/aboutadobe/pressroom/pressreleases/200811/111708ARMAdobeFlash.html	14:34
aquatix	whoa, dpkg seems to just continue, even if the ssh connection fails	14:34
aquatix	interesting	14:34
click170	timeless: Tell them to fix that painful drop-down menu issue being covered by other content thats been around for ^AGES^	14:34
aquatix	click170: indeed	14:35
timeless	click170: the last thing i asked them to fix was on http://labs.adobe.com/technologies/flashplayer10/releasenotes_64bit.html	14:35
timeless	and it isn't fixed yet :(	14:35
aquatix	but that's a direct rendering issue i think	14:35
timeless	layer'ings a mess	14:35
timeless	how about telling content authors not to use flash near layers :)	14:35
aquatix	:)	14:36
click170	I duno what it is, but IMO the length its been around doesnt reflect well on Adobe.	14:36
timeless	you're barking up the wrong bug	14:36
aquatix	how about telling them not to use flash ;)	14:36
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lcuk	suihkulokki, wow nice :) doing that direct would ease one aspect for mer	14:36
lcuk	(i always want to type "meh!")	14:36
Stskeeps	lcuk: .. "royalty free for partners"	14:36
Stskeeps	:P	14:36
click170	I actually avoid flash where-ever possible, I use NoScript	14:36
* aquatix has flashblock		14:37
suihkulokki	timeless: <layer><object><embed>...	14:37
* lcuk fixed flashblock once		14:37
* lcuk has his name in the credits :P		14:37
* click170 shakes lcuk's hand		14:38
timeless	do i get points for breaking flashblock?	14:38
* timeless wonders		14:38
lcuk	:D	14:38
* timeless isn't sure, but perhaps		14:38
click170	lol You can have a single point	14:38
lcuk	lol timeless no you break everything	14:38
click170	it's halfway to discovering a fix	14:38
* lcuk mumbles something about you breaking liqbase at the summit		14:38
aquatix	:)	14:39
lcuk	flashblock doesnt block though	14:39
timeless	hey, it comes naturally	14:39
lcuk	i bet i could make a webworm get through there ;)	14:39
timeless	suihkulokki: so, the keyword is 'optimize'	14:39
timeless	it's not 'release for public users'	14:39
lcuk	content interaction in a webpage should be handled by the core system. if a user says "for XYZ media type show me a clicker" then the flash or whatever should not even be started and should instead just have the clicker	14:40
timeless	<object><object><object><object><img src=goose>	14:40
fnordianslip	hmm. i uninstalled bluez-utils-test to get the SSU installed, and expected to find it in Extras-Devel to reinstall but its not there. any suggestions? i've noticed discussion about bluez-utils-test here, but paid no attention.	14:41
lcuk	you have multiple objections to my idea? :P	14:41
timeless	what do you want to see if there's a WMP, QT, Real, Flash stack	14:41
timeless	(i.e. each object is one of those)	14:41
lcuk	i would personally love to get my head into the core of QT - they have an excellent widget set but too much bloat, i need to clear the way right to the heart of it and see what can be done	14:42
timeless	err	14:42
timeless	that's Qt	14:42
timeless	this is QT	14:42
timeless	silly	14:42
lcuk	ahhh you mean quicktime ;) silly me	14:42
* lcuk is just thinking about such things :)		14:42
timeless	case matters	14:42
RST38h	lcuk: you either use widget set or you don't	14:43
RST38h	lcuk: so, there isn't much to see in the core	14:43
lcuk	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_buffalo_Buffalo_buffalo	14:43
timeless	yeah yeah, been there, done that :)	14:43
lardman	well the gramatical correctness there is arbitrary, especially as buffalo isn't a verb in English	14:44
lcuk	RST38h, of course there is - i have a baseline widget set that runs fast, the core is designed around speed and scales up, i dont understand why i read so much about performance problems. i really need to investigate this further	14:44
lcuk	(perf probs in qt)	14:45
Stskeeps	ok, community people - proposals, where do these belong in wiki?	14:45
lcuk	i think lardmans proposal; went on his fiences finger	14:46
lardman	?	14:47
lardman	I got the fiance's finger, proposal bit, but did I say something about the wiki?	14:47
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lcuk	lol	14:47
GAN800	Stskeeps, either Task or Objective: depending on scope	14:47
johnx	Stskeeps, everything I've tested looks great so far	14:47
timeless	http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/buffalo#Transitive_verb	14:47
Stskeeps	johnx: good :)	14:48
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timeless	the reason the sentence is valid is because it is a verb	14:48
Stskeeps	GAN800: k, Task:Community_Firmware_Image_Distribution maybe	14:48
GAN800	Sentence case	14:48
johnx	though sadly Xorg is painfully slow on a zaurus, unless someone does some optimized screen rotation code	14:48
derf	lardman: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/buffalo#Verb would disagree with you.	14:48
lardman	timeless: the first meaning is the only English one then	14:48
Stskeeps	GAN800: k	14:49
lardman	timeless: ;)	14:49
derf	Oh, timeless already did that.	14:49
timeless	derf: not exactly	14:49
timeless	the wikipedia link is bad	14:49
timeless	fix it :)	14:49
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derf	Bah, fix it yourself.	14:49
lardman	depends on your definition of English, I define it as the language spoken in England of course	14:49
timeless	but you have the right link!	14:49
lcuk	lardman, which part of england though? :P	14:49
timeless	hampshire	14:50
lardman	the south, no buffalo in the north	14:50
lardman	;p	14:50
johnx	lardman, come by the US and get someone to buffalo some proper American English into you :P	14:50
lardman	lol	14:50
lcuk	yeah, just goes to show buffalo are wussy as well :P	14:50
lardman	I'll expect someone with an elephant gun?	14:51
johnx	you get to choose whether it's through definition 2 or 3 :D	14:51
mgedmin	derf: sudo fix it	14:51
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* timeless grumbles		14:54
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* GAN8001 ponders whether or not to address all of the remaining nonsense in the 43-7 thread.		14:55
timeless	You are currently using 3603 MB (49%) of your 7274 MB.	14:55
timeless	43-7?	14:55
timeless	is that a week-build?	14:55
GAN8001	Latest SSU	14:55
johnx	that thread started so well too :/	14:56
derf	mgedmin is not in the sudoers file. This incident will be reported.	14:56
*** mgedmin is now known as not_mgedmin		14:56
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* not_mgedmin is hiding		14:56
timeless	lol	14:56
* not_mgedmin is not hiding		14:56
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lcuk	whats the most compatible tablet pc for installing linux on	15:00
timeless	tablet == touchscreen?	15:01
timeless	and compatible = x86?	15:01
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lcuk	yeah i cant get a decent omap3 complete package yet	15:01
RST38h	lcuk: compatible with what?	15:01
lcuk	best ill get is scratchbox in a real box	15:02
lcuk	RST38h, something like ubuntu? but touch and power saving and stuff should work	15:02
lcuk	i know if i get a cheap obscure one ill have problems	15:02
johnx	lcuk, usually the thinkpads do well, check thinkwiki.org for gotchas, but they're expensive. tuxmobil.org often has compatibility info / install guides for others	15:02
lcuk	im just thinking baseline compatible so i can install without a fuss	15:02
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lcuk	thanks johnx, i was eying up an x41	15:03
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johnx	try to stay with intel stuff. the centrino plays really nice with linux	15:04
johnx	except, some people have issues with tv-out	15:04
Stskeeps	mm.	15:04
Stskeeps	~curse sdvo, intel	15:05
infobot	May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, sdvo, intel !	15:05
StsN800	lardman, at least its good we get this discussion going	15:09
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StsN800	would be a bit ironic if we could backport fremantle but not distribute it..	15:12
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lardman	StsN800: agreed	15:14
aquatix	http://notalwaysright.com/the-final-step-is-acceptance/1394 :)	15:15
lcuk	Stskeeps, it would be best of all to collaborate with the official version and distribute one single image :)	15:15
lardman	StsN800: there will always be a way for people to install the binary only stuff, though, I wouldn't get too hung up on this	15:15
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* lardman goes to grab some lunch & do some dsp programming		15:16
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GAN8001	lcuk, problem is, Flash licensing is for "Diablo + N800/N810", it hasn't been licensed for "Fremantle + N800/N810"	15:17
X-Fade	GAN8001: And certainly not _certified_ for..	15:18
lcuk	then thats firstly for nokia to decide and iron out	15:18
* StsN800 's focus is on hw blobs. technical pov		15:18
johnx	lcuk, just like they ironed out the pvr licensing for us?	15:18
timeless	what, nokia should pay to certify flash for a set of software that doesn't exist	15:18
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timeless	when do you expect nokia to do that?	15:19
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timeless	btw, fremantle flash will hopefully not be the same as the flash player for diablo	15:19
* timeless wants a newer version of flash		15:19
GAN800	timeless, we're not _expecting_ anything, we're talking with Nokia to iron out these details.	15:20
johnx	I want flash to die horribly	15:21
lcuk	in a flash?	15:21
timeless	that's easy to arrange :)	15:21
johnx	timeless, heh...not just in my browser session :P	15:22
timeless	/bin/rm `find / -name 'flashpla.so*'	15:22
timeless	`	15:22
timeless	sure, not just you browser session :)	15:22
* GAN800 notices it's rather foggy out.		15:23
johnx	frankly I'd like PDF to go away as much as possible as well	15:23
* timeless sighs		15:23
timeless	typo	15:23
timeless	big typo	15:23
timeless	ok, so, my logic's all wrong :(	15:24
GAN800	X-Fade, we're gonna have to start handing out rewards for reporting. :P	15:24
X-Fade	Heh ;)	15:24
timeless	gan800: i've sent shirts	15:25
timeless	did you get useful reports somewhere?	15:25
X-Fade	GAN800: I just write these things to see if somebody notices..	15:25
GAN800	timeless, Sprint reporting this time.	15:25
GAN800	http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_Sprints/December_08	15:25
timeless	anyone here like reading js? :)	15:26
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timeless	> JavaScript error: , line 0: uncaught exception: unknown (can't convert to string)	15:29
timeless	yum	15:29
X-Fade	timeless: NULL? :)	15:29
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GAN800	When did we lose image scaling in MicroB?	15:31
GAN800	Hi, etrunko. :)	15:31
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etrunko	hi GAN800 GAN800 GeneralAntilles	15:31
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* GAN800 spams clones		15:32
johnx	w00! no more image scaling	15:32
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GAN800	It's obnoxious when you're trying to look at a big picture of the space station and can only see a few hundred pixels at a time. :(	15:33
sp3000	they should make smaller space stations	15:33
johnx	ah, damn. I thought you mean the ugly picture scaling when all I want is bigger fonts with zoom	15:34
GAN800	Or smaller cameras	15:34
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StsN800	a poll on itt to see what 3rd party closed src people use on tablet could be interesting	15:37
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RST38h	or smaller pixels	15:37
RST38h	sts: there are very few options though	15:38
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lardman	hmm, I've only just got 3 screens up and running and I could really do with another one or two	15:38
StsN800	RST38h, true. skype, flash, codecs	15:39
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StsN800	rhapsody, gizmo?	15:39
* GAN800 wants 5		15:39
lardman	I reckon 6 would work well, 2 rows x 3 columns	15:40
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ShadowJK_	hm, ~/.xchat2 doesn't get backed up by file manager's backup :-(	15:46
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lardman	bloody hell, that new bluez is shocking for sbc	16:07
johnx	fast?	16:08
lardman	no, really slow	16:08
lardman	everything sounds very slow	16:08
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lcuk	lardman, sounds like you have a heroesesq superpower	16:09
johnx	well it's a good thing you're here to save us from it :D	16:09
lardman	I was just trying some different dsp patches and wondering why it all sounded so back all of a sudden	16:10
lardman	and then realised it's not using the dsp at all	16:10
lcuk	have you tried switching your nokia from 33 to 45?	16:10
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ShadowJK_	hm, did they do stuff to microb in this ssu...	16:10
lardman	lcuk: current ssu you mean?	16:11
lcuk	i mean rpm :P	16:12
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lardman	lcuk: lol, yeah sounds like that	16:12
jprocha	hi guys	16:12
jprocha	I am having trouble with hildon-thumbnail, have anyone used it successfully on Diablo?	16:13
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lcuk	jprocha, not tried it (yet), is it failing with everytihng or just certain niggles?	16:15
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* lcuk really needs something to handle thumbnailing especially when larger images become the norm		16:16
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jprocha	well, my problem is that thumbnails do get created but the hildon_thumbnail_factory_wait() seems to wait forever	16:18
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ahem	lcuk: tracy see im not there any more	16:19
lardman	which header should CHAR_BIT live in, assuming it should do at all?	16:20
lcuk	oh my sodding god gewt some proper work done	16:20
ahem	:D	16:20
lcuk	-w lol	16:20
lcuk	skiver	16:20
ahem	you type as badly as me	16:20
ahem	people will think i am me	16:20
lcuk	then u look like ur talking to yaself 1st sign of madness that	16:21
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ahem	ppl in here have seen many other signs then :D	16:21
ahem	i am goin now babe, ill cya later on (K), cya other folks	16:21
lcuk	bye hun	16:21
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lardman	hmm, "sbc_tables.h", line 364: error: floating-point value does not fit in required integral type	16:33
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lardman	weird, as the declaration above apparently does fit	16:35
lardman	ah, the fp data is 2 dp longer	16:36
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lardman	biam	16:50
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jprocha	I am dying with the hildon-thumbnails here, anyone who have used it please pvt me :)	16:57
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r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: pong	17:05
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lardman\|afk	say I have the following defines: http://pastebin.com/m3a96a69e	17:19
lardman\|afk	when I try to compile, the compiler chokes on values of F(1.0000)	17:19
lardman\|afk	is this expected?	17:19
lardman\|afk	the error is: error: floating-point value does not fit in required integral type	17:20
lardman\|afk	I should add that sizeof(FIXED_T)=1	17:20
lardman\|afk	so it expands to this: (int16)((1.0000)*((int32)1<<15)+0.5)	17:21
lardman\|afk	1<<15 should fit in a signed 16bit variable, the 0.5 should be floored by the cast, so it should fit; any flaws in my reasoning?	17:23
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not_mgedmin	lardman\|afk: 1<<15 doesn't fit in a signed 16-bit variable	17:41
not_mgedmin	(1<<15) - 1 is the largest representable value	17:42
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lardman	ah, well that is going to be an issue then	17:42
mgedmin	also, I think you mean sizeof(FIXED_T)==2	17:42
mgedmin	unless... oh, right, that arch has 16-bit bytes	17:43
mgedmin	err, charachters	17:43
lardman	yeah, char is 16bit	17:43
lardman	bytes are 16bit too	17:43
lardman	right, will have to chat to ssvb and see what he was trying to do there then	17:44
lardman	cheers	17:44
StsN800	r2d2rogers, will be with you in 5, in bus	17:46
lardman	I wonder if it would work any differently if sizeof(FIXED_T)=2 and CHAR_BIT=8	17:50
lardman	I don't think so	17:50
lardman	strange	17:50
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Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/gtk2-engines-sapwood_3.1.1-1_armel.deb	17:55
Stskeeps	grab this and see if it helps any	17:55
Stskeeps	(we got johnx's zaurus to behave earlier. there seems to be an quite odd uint16 -> uint32 conversion problem	17:56
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* GAN8001 sighs @ tz on -developers		17:58
matmo	hi all, just got an 8G microSD card for my N810, hmmm, no micro-mini adapter :-( About to order a SanDisk Mobile Memory Kit (inc 2G, £2.99, blahdvd.com). Does anyone know if adapters are SDHC compatible even if they don't mention it?	17:58
Meiz_n810	should be	17:59
Stskeeps	GAN8001: indeed	17:59
GAN8001	matmo, SDHC doesn't have anything to do with the pinout, so yes.	17:59
GAN8001	Stskeeps, why does he have to make everything so difficult. :(	18:00
matmo	OK, thanks for confirming	18:00
Stskeeps	GAN8001: you'd be out of work if there weren't people like him :P	18:00
Stskeeps	then we'd just have to fight with nokia and that's no fun ;)	18:00
GAN8001	I need a script to detect when people try to create new pages in camelCase. . . .	18:02
Stskeeps	:P	18:03
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Stskeeps	GAN8001: seriously though, is the man blind? http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.1.2/free/b/bluez-utils/	18:04
Stskeeps	osso7 is right there	18:04
disco_stu	GAN8001: what for ?	18:04
GAN8001	He'd have a helluva lot less trouble if he would quit being belligerent and just use DBus.	18:05
GAN8001	Stskeeps, so I pointed out to him on the list.	18:05
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GAN8001	disco_stu, article naming needs to be consistent.	18:05
GAN8001	We use sentence case, not title case and not camelCase.	18:05
qwerty12	bluez-utils is not a metapackage. we'd be fucked it it was.	18:06
disco_stu	GAN8001: its easy then	18:06
Stskeeps	GAN8001: admittedly it's kinda weird that you have to reinstall sdk per 4.1.x version or change your repos, though, instead of updating	18:06
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Stskeeps	but it may make sense in some scenarios	18:06
GAN8001	qwerty12, you're more qualified than most to dive in on this one. :P	18:06
yerga	He has reason in one thing: no sources for the osso6 version	18:06
GAN8001	Well, osso6 could just be osso7 with different build options.	18:06
Stskeeps	is that the one in firmware image?	18:07
disco_stu	GAN8001: you should take the name, remove the first letter and convert it to lowercase and then check with the original, if not match then there is camel case	18:07
qwerty12	GAN8001, Heh, I can't be bothered to argue :/. At the end of the day, he seems to be losing out with his program not being able to be installed - not nokia	18:07
GAN8001	yerga, either way, he needs a whole lot less FUD and a whole lot more reason. ;)	18:08
yerga	GAN8001, agree completely ;)	18:08
GAN8001	qwerty12, well, his users are losing out because he fucked up SSU.	18:08
lardman	what version of bluez-utils do you chaps have installed?	18:08
yerga	This bug doesn't have sense: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3937	18:08
qwerty12	GAN8001, heh, true	18:08
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qwerty12	lardman, 3.28-0osso6	18:09
Stskeeps	why would audio.service be removed on the wimax anyway? im kinda curious about that	18:10
Stskeeps	no headsetting?	18:10
* GAN8001 sighs more		18:10
GAN8001	Why do people hard-wrap text when putting it in the wiki.	18:10
* Stskeeps ducks		18:10
* qwerty12 gets back to using the scummvm tools. I should have used windows... why must *nix be so anal retentive about cases in file names?		18:11
lardman	qwerty12: well that's not the version in the repo	18:11
disco_stu	qwerty12: case sensitive is a must for a decent file system	18:11
lardman	qwerty12: but perhaps that's my one	18:11
qwerty12	lardman, it's true, and that's one of tz1's points	18:12
lardman	yep, that's the one valid point I think	18:12
qwerty12	but it is what is installed with the ssu update	18:12
Stskeeps	did anyone check if the sources are there on tablets-dev? :P	18:12
pupnik_	<ADVERTISEMENT> Rubybox! The frontend for Dosbox on internet tablets - with ez-install of online freed games and custom configurations! Game list here: http://nakkiboso.com/rbox.php	18:13
qwerty12	pupnik_, spammer! :P	18:13
* pupnik_ hangs head in shame		18:13
Stskeeps	nm	18:13
lardman	Stskeeps: no	18:13
* lardman has already installed osso7		18:13
pupnik_	coool	18:13
Stskeeps	pupnik_: oh boy.	18:14
Stskeeps	pupnik_: sure keen is freed? :P	18:14
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pupnik_	hmm i am wrong	18:15
pupnik_	i think that's the list of games with configs	18:15
pupnik_	not the list of games solmumah4 hosts	18:15
qwerty12	disco_stu, it's a must to annoy me sometimes :)	18:16
disco_stu	qwerty12: that is your windows brain thinking	18:16
disco_stu	with the years you get used to it	18:17
qwerty12	it's the side that would like me to do something without having to convert the file names to lower case, do what I want and rename back to upper case. But i'm overreacting	18:17
GAN8001	apt-get -f install seems to confuse people	18:17
GAN8001	Why didn't they just use apt-get fix-install or somthing?	18:17
disco_stu	apt-get --fix-missing	18:18
disco_stu	is the long command argument	18:18
GAN8001	Stskeeps, isn't there an update script for the SDK that'd update the repository info?	18:20
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qwerty12	GAN8001, there's no need to	18:21
Stskeeps	GAN8001: not sure	18:21
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fiferboy	I presume I am supposed to get something other than a blank screen when trying to boot nitdroid...	18:23
r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: installed, rebooting	18:24
Stskeeps	fiferboy: try removing external sd	18:24
fiferboy	Stskeeps: I will do that now...	18:25
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fiferboy	Thanks, Stskeeps!!	18:26
fiferboy	Is that always a problem, or could it be because my external SD is ext3?	18:26
Stskeeps	fiferboy: i think theres a generic problem, not sure. just been watching the channel so :P	18:27
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r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: no change in behavior with new sapwood package	18:28
lardman	GAN8001: you can do -fix-install	18:28
lardman	I think anyway	18:28
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: damnit. so still 100% cpu and no drawing?	18:28
r2d2rogers	yup	18:28
r2d2rogers	can trdo the strace if you like?	18:29
r2d2rogers	redo	18:29
Stskeeps	mm, yeah	18:29
r2d2rogers	does it help any that the the menu for the home_ap_home_view menu and the applets show up white while the menu on the left doesnt' show at all?	18:29
Stskeeps	well if sapwood malfunctions, anything can happen :P	18:30
r2d2rogers	<G>	18:31
r2d2rogers	reboot for strace	18:31
Stskeeps	we should establish its actually sapwood.. sec	18:31
r2d2rogers	? k	18:31
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Stskeeps	. /usr/lib/gtk-2.0/2.10.0/engines/libsapwood.so	18:33
Stskeeps	move that one away	18:33
Stskeeps	its going to be murder for your 770, but would show if its sapwoods fault :P	18:33
r2d2rogers	k	18:34
r2d2rogers	so move that file to somewhere else?	18:34
Stskeeps	yeah	18:34
Stskeeps	out of the directory	18:34
r2d2rogers	k	18:35
r2d2rogers	stuff looks better and works	18:35
r2d2rogers	reboot to confirm	18:35
r2d2rogers	I moved it while it was starting	18:35
r2d2rogers	enter key works now too	18:36
r2d2rogers	from matchbox-keyboard	18:36
r2d2rogers	ok for the reboot	18:36
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Stskeeps	k	18:37
r2d2rogers	looks the same, everything workds, just looks worse on the home screen, but better in the menus.	18:40
Stskeeps	define "worse"? :P	18:41
r2d2rogers	screenshot cometh	18:41
Stskeeps	k	18:41
r2d2rogers	buttons and such are better, will have to figure out how to show those	18:41
johnx	r2d2rogers, they hilight blue when clicked?	18:42
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r2d2rogers	http://handhelds.org/scap/port.2215.png	18:42
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Stskeeps	yeah, true, probably due to sapwood references in theme	18:43
Stskeeps	how's speed, even without sapwood	18:43
r2d2rogers	fine	18:43
matmo	Is there option to select speakers when headphones plugged into the N810? I just want to use the external microphone.	18:43
lardman	probably a sysfs entry	18:44
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lardman	iirc on the n800 you could plug in the headphones to use the radio and play from the speakers	18:44
r2d2rogers	no difference that I can tell, but the applet for CPU and mem can't be read	18:44
johnx	good luck r2d2rogers and Stskeeps. really lame that the zaurus fix wasn't related :/	18:44
matmo	lardman: any idea which sysfs entry?	18:45
johnx	'night all	18:45
qwerty12	night johnx	18:45
RST38h	Hehe, 50% of Blackberry Storms are returned	18:45
lardman	matmo: 'fraid not, sorry	18:45
RST38h	night, johnx	18:45
Stskeeps	nini johnx	18:45
lardman	night johnx	18:45
r2d2rogers	can you get matchbox keybaord to exit politely?	18:45
Stskeeps	not really	18:45
r2d2rogers	k	18:45
Stskeeps	kill -9? :P	18:45
r2d2rogers	g'night johnx thanks	18:45
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: let's say we move out the stuff in rc.local and start it later from usb.. does behaviour change?	18:46
Stskeeps	(when sapwood is installed)	18:46
r2d2rogers	k, so	18:47
Stskeeps	and with usb, install openssh-server or something so its a normal user login	18:47
r2d2rogers	mv the rc.local to another place and run it after I get in to the usb ethernet terminal?	18:47
r2d2rogers	I have ssh on it now	18:47
Stskeeps	yeah	18:47
r2d2rogers	and a user	18:47
r2d2rogers	k	18:48
r2d2rogers	modding the sudoers also then	18:48
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r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: so we want the sapwood library back in place or still moved?	18:51
Stskeeps	yeah, back in place	18:53
Stskeeps	it's obviously at fault	18:53
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r2d2rogers	reboot <G>	18:53
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r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: so I want to export DISPLAY=:0;startx &;start-hildon & ?	18:58
Stskeeps	.. i gues that would do the trick	18:58
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* Meiz_n810 boots to Mer		19:00
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r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: permissions error due to where I had the strace log set, trying again with out strace for now	19:04
Stskeeps	k	19:04
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r2d2rogers	came up with a terminal, tried kicking a menu and now the screen is black	19:07
r2d2rogers	no response from terminal...	19:07
Stskeeps	alright. does it still go 100%?	19:07
r2d2rogers	can't say	19:07
r2d2rogers	it died	19:08
Stskeeps	ah, tablet rebooted?	19:08
r2d2rogers	nope	19:08
r2d2rogers	just went black and unresposive	19:08
r2d2rogers	popping battery	19:08
Stskeeps	silly fact - try without & in start-hildon	19:08
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r2d2rogers	k	19:09
r2d2rogers	botting back up fine	19:09
r2d2rogers	booting...	19:09
r2d2rogers	weird that the tablet just died like that	19:09
Stskeeps	experimental software ftw	19:09
Stskeeps	:P	19:09
r2d2rogers	point	19:09
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r2d2rogers	waiting to see when start-hildon finishes	19:11
r2d2rogers	?	19:11
Meiz_n810	how can i get the latest imager??	19:11
Meiz_n810	bzr branch <what??>	19:11
r2d2rogers	same behavior	19:12
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Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: no changes lately	19:12
r2d2rogers	getting in telnet with root to see what cpu is	19:12
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: start-hildon doesn't finish until hildon dies	19:12
r2d2rogers	k	19:13
Meiz_n810	k	19:13
r2d2rogers	it was finishing when it was &'d	19:13
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: i deleted the old one so what was the command? :P	19:13
r2d2rogers	same fun	19:13
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: bzr lp:~mer-committers/m-r/imager	19:14
r2d2rogers	white menu and sapwood hogging CPU	19:14
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: strace then	19:14
Meiz_n810	thanks	19:14
Stskeeps	(strace -p pid)	19:14
r2d2rogers	wilco	19:14
r2d2rogers	nothing coming out of it	19:14
Stskeeps	eh	19:15
r2d2rogers	assumed you wanted strace -p (sapwood's pid)	19:15
Stskeeps	yes	19:15
Stskeeps	sapwood's pid :P	19:15
r2d2rogers	<G>	19:15
r2d2rogers	nothing	19:15
Stskeeps	eh	19:15
r2d2rogers	how to tell what it's blocking on is our problem right?	19:15
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Stskeeps	what the heck hogs cpu then..	19:15
Stskeeps	gdb the sapwood binary <pid>	19:15
Stskeeps	and b	19:16
Stskeeps	bt	19:16
r2d2rogers	gdb?? not found	19:16
Stskeeps	ah	19:17
r2d2rogers	install package for it?	19:17
Stskeeps	apt-get install gdb :P	19:17
Stskeeps	yeah	19:17
r2d2rogers	running	19:17
Stskeeps	http://www.millne.com/wp-content/uploads/15042008373-small.jpg	19:17
Stskeeps	hah	19:17
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r2d2rogers	funny that still works while cpu is said to be pegged out	19:17
Stskeeps	yeah, multitasking is an interesting thing	19:18
Stskeeps	:P	19:18
r2d2rogers	whoa	19:18
r2d2rogers	something happened	19:18
r2d2rogers	the console popped up	19:18
Stskeeps	interesting	19:18
r2d2rogers	maemo-launcher: child (pid=1766) terminated due to signal=9	19:18
Stskeeps	dmesg?	19:19
r2d2rogers	out of memory	19:19
Stskeeps	k	19:19
Stskeeps	fair enough	19:19
r2d2rogers	pastebin?	19:19
Stskeeps	from gdb? yeah	19:19
r2d2rogers	sapwood still 97~ percent	19:20
Stskeeps	i think i may have found my new nemesis, when it comes to software. sapwood.	19:21
Stskeeps	:P	19:21
r2d2rogers	\o/	19:21
r2d2rogers	what's the other pastebin you had me use?	19:22
Stskeeps	rafb.net/paste	19:23
r2d2rogers	http://rafb.net/p/MU2uYX90.html	19:24
r2d2rogers	what was the bt part?	19:25
Stskeeps	write 'bt'	19:25
Stskeeps	:P	19:25
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r2d2rogers	Cannot access memory at address 0x5	19:26
Stskeeps	fair enough, and then no output?	19:26
r2d2rogers	yup	19:26
r2d2rogers	the dmesg output on the out of memory bit http://rafb.net/p/MJeOx790.html.	19:27
Stskeeps	what permissions did you have with sapwod in start-hildon?	19:27
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r2d2rogers	permissions?	19:28
r2d2rogers	whatever the user was.... no sudo	19:28
Stskeeps	ah. sapwood runs as user	19:28
Stskeeps	so just strace -fF sapwood-running-command-or-how-was-it &> log	19:29
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r2d2rogers	strace -o ~/strace_sapwood-server.log /usr/lib/sapwood/sapwood-server & look ok?	19:30
Stskeeps	fairenough	19:31
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r2d2rogers	booted	19:34
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r2d2rogers	doing the tail -f on the strace log gives me this when I click and get the white box: http://rafb.net/p/8sJYcb42.html	19:36
r2d2rogers	line 11 or 12 is the tap point	19:36
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Stskeeps	k	19:38
Stskeeps	lookin	19:38
Stskeeps	'	19:38
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Stskeeps	you dont happen to have any output in shell from sapwood?	19:39
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r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: dump of shell output: http://rafb.net/p/yR0lsm34.html	19:40
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: do me a fav and do .. strace -o ~/strace_sapwood-server.log /usr/lib/sapwood/sapwood-server & > seperate.log	19:42
Stskeeps	in the boot instead	19:42
Stskeeps	there's a curious message	19:42
r2d2rogers	k	19:42
r2d2rogers	putting rc.local back and adding the console log for the strace of sapwood to the start hildon?	19:44
Stskeeps	you might want to do &>	19:44
Stskeeps	as in, i want to be able to tell about sapwood's output and everything else	19:44
Stskeeps	:P	19:44
r2d2rogers	cd ~	19:44
r2d2rogers	oops	19:44
Stskeeps	/home/r2d2rogers not found.	19:45
r2d2rogers	do you want the log output from the start-hildon command, or the strace of sapwood line?	19:45
Stskeeps	the strace of sapwood line	19:46
r2d2rogers	grok	19:46
Stskeeps	(show me the resulting line :P)	19:46
dick-richardson	on a fresh flash; only installing openssh; editing /etc/systemui/systemui.xml, /etc/ssh/sshd_config, and running visudo; my n810 on reboot will show the progress bar reach 100% and go no further	19:46
r2d2rogers	strace -o ~/strace_sapwood-server.log /usr/lib/sapwood/sapwood-server &> ~/sapwood-server_strace.log	19:47
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: & in the end there i think	19:47
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dick-richardson	I can't tell if it's a bug or faulty hardware...someone available to test?	19:47
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r2d2rogers	strace -o ~/strace_sapwood-server.log /usr/lib/sapwood/sapwood-server &> ~/sapwood-server_strace.log &	19:48
Stskeeps	yea	19:48
Stskeeps	dick-richardson: you may have messsed up your systemui.xml	19:48
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Stskeeps	with faulty hw you'd probably not even reach 100 :P	19:49
dick-richardson	Stskeeps, I just removed the comment designating lines	19:49
Stskeeps	dick-richardson: hm?	19:49
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Stskeeps	dick-richardson: besides that systemui can blow up in wonderful different ways :P	19:49
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dick-richardson	it's not the systemui.xml file edits. I promise	19:50
dick-richardson	unless it's interacting with openssh or an additional line in /etc/sudoers unexpectedly	19:50
Stskeeps	if sudoers if unreadable for some odd reason.. system will fail to boot too	19:51
Stskeeps	afaik	19:51
dick-richardson	'user ALL = ALL' seem right?	19:51
dick-richardson	visudo doesn't complain when I exit...	19:51
Stskeeps	.. no not really. i think it may cause it to ask for a password each time	19:52
qwerty12	indeed	19:52
dick-richardson	it does...	19:52
qwerty12	dick-richardson, how do you propose to enter this password?	19:52
Stskeeps	so, there's your reason	19:52
Stskeeps	:P	19:52
dick-richardson	I'd rather not remove the password restriction	19:52
dick-richardson	qwerty12, at the terminal...?	19:52
dick-richardson	not understanding your question	19:52
qwerty12	dick-richardson, yes, what terminal?	19:52
Stskeeps	dick-richardson: hint, OS uses sudo from the 'user' to some specific commands	19:53
dick-richardson	the terminal included with the device?	19:53
Stskeeps	to not having to run everything as root	19:53
r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: not finding the log files	19:53
r2d2rogers	I shouldn't have used ~/ methinks	19:53
qwerty12	dick-richardson, good luck having that starting up everytime sudo wants to run something...	19:53
dick-richardson	I_added_ the last line. I didn't replace the entire file with that line :P	19:53
Stskeeps	dick-richardson: catch-all i think :P	19:53
dick-richardson	seriously...it worked that way the entire last firmware	19:54
Stskeeps	dick-richardson: anyway, that's a probable reason why it crashes :P	19:54
dick-richardson	all of the nopasswd designated lines are still there	19:54
dick-richardson	I added that last line to allow me to run other, previously non-specified commands, as root	19:54
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Stskeeps	right, but, if it fails to work as intended, it would mess up your system	19:56
Stskeeps	:P	19:56
dick-richardson	fair enough...lemme try with nopasswd	19:56
Stskeeps	besides that is it /etc/sudoers or /etc/sudoers.d? :P	19:57
Stskeeps	cos your sudoers will be overwritten otherwise	19:57
dick-richardson	was /etc/sudoers	19:58
t_s_o	hmm, while i dont miss the modified modest interface much, i really do miss the app manager...	19:59
Stskeeps	hmm?	20:00
Stskeeps	(t_s_o)	20:00
Stskeeps	i've just upgraded parts of the OS, so :)	20:00
t_s_o	ah	20:00
Stskeeps	as i have removed some bits i probably shouldn't have	20:01
qwerty12	t_s_o, if you have osso-software-version-rx34-unlocked installed, you can use http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/appman/testing/testing/hildon-application-manager_2.1.20~unreleased_armel.deb fine	20:01
dick-richardson	ooc, is it still required to run in red-pill mode?	20:01
t_s_o	nope, no -unlocked here. last time i tried that i got a non-booting update :S	20:01
r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: nothing in the console output log	20:01
r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: looks like the previous logs int he other	20:02
qwerty12	t_s_o, ah.. I still had my updated appmgr installed when I updated.. probably because I was using unlocked when I updated...	20:02
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: can i seethe sapwood-server_strace.log one?	20:02
r2d2rogers	empty	20:03
Stskeeps	eh.	20:03
Stskeeps	and you've made sure to have two different files, right?	20:03
t_s_o	i somewhat look forward to mer being stable for casual use, as i have a itch to free this device from the nokia heavy handed updates...	20:03
Stskeeps	for -o and for output	20:03
r2d2rogers	yessir	20:03
Stskeeps	k	20:03
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: so we have a GTK application that spits absolutely nothing out at stderr	20:04
Stskeeps	that's a bloody miracle	20:04
r2d2rogers	<G>	20:04
r2d2rogers	what user is the rc.local run as?	20:04
Stskeeps	root	20:04
t_s_o	i just hope mer will have a equivalent to the bookmark button/menu, as thats one thing i find useful in maemo	20:05
r2d2rogers	I'm confused about all the \1\\\0\24... stuff in this line:	20:05
r2d2rogers	read(5, "\1\\\0\24\0\24\0\24\0\24\0\0/usr/share/themes/pla"..., 4109) = 92	20:05
t_s_o	on the other hand, it needs to work with any kind of browser the users wants to install and designate as main	20:05
Stskeeps	t_s_o: it should be trivial to make.	20:05
t_s_o	Stskeeps: probably, but the devil is in the details ;)	20:06
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Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: at least you didn't have johnx's bug which made it think it was sending 17k buffers instead of 92byte buffers..	20:06
r2d2rogers	:;nods::	20:07
r2d2rogers	but his works now? <G>	20:07
Stskeeps	can you send me the whole -o log?	20:07
Stskeeps	yes, by a bloody miracle	20:07
r2d2rogers	yessir	20:07
Stskeeps	i think it hit a compiler bug / processor bug	20:07
Stskeeps	lemme just give you a place to upload it to	20:08
r2d2rogers	k	20:08
r2d2rogers	yewah 'cause my webserver isn't open to public right now...	20:08
r2d2rogers	need to learn me up some firewall fun	20:08
r2d2rogers	one specific luser on the web	20:09
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* Khertan_n810 [W2I=000:u:0:000:]		20:13
Khertan_n810	Hi !	20:14
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Khertan_n810	I have a question ... i m trying to implement crypted text in mNotes ...but i don t want to store the password in a database ... so when i uncrypt text how i can know that it use a wrong password ? (i use pyDes)	20:15
Stskeeps	add a checksum or something	20:16
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Khertan_n810	a checksum on what ? the crypted text before crypt it ?	20:17
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dick-richardson	I'll be damned, you called it Stskeeps	20:17
Stskeeps	hmm.	20:17
Stskeeps	toldyou	20:17
Khertan_n810	this will clearly break security, isn t it ?	20:17
dick-richardson	what was that display applet that showed both brightness and volume in one icon?	20:17
Stskeeps	advanced backlight	20:18
dick-richardson	thank you :)	20:18
Stskeeps	Khertan_n810: yes, i'm just trying to recall that example from cryptography..	20:18
Khertan_n810	dick: advanced something	20:18
Khertan_n810	stskeeps: hehe	20:19
Stskeeps	Khertan_n810: .. encrypt(key, text+key), verify if decrypted text matches key?	20:19
lcuk	Khertan_n810, encrypt a known phrase at the start of the block	20:19
Stskeeps	Khertan_n810: that way there's no known phrase	20:19
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Stskeeps	except for the secret key	20:19
Khertan_n810	lcuk ? for an open source app ?	20:19
lcuk	yeah	20:20
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Stskeeps	lcuk: technically you know some of the plaintext then	20:20
Khertan_n810	hum ... if i remember des is one way	20:20
lcuk	with good security you can give away the formula and equation used - remember, this is only your test	20:20
lcuk	or as part of your text store a hash using another formula - if the hash is recovered after decrypting then its fine	20:21
dick-richardson	is it safe to remove the documentation...or will that cause problems on upgrades yet?	20:21
Stskeeps	Khertan_n810: to encrypt, encrypt the key prefixed in the text, to decrypt, use key, and check key == start of plaintext :P	20:21
Khertan_n810	only no differnciation between public and private key	20:21
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lcuk	Khertan_n810, the key is in their mind, not pub/priv	20:21
Khertan_n810	stskeeps: huhu ... really unsecure	20:22
lcuk	you know, you could keep your app simple and leave it as is - if people want security they can use an encrypted fs	20:22
Stskeeps	Khertan_n810: eh, no	20:22
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Khertan_n810	lcuk: the prob is saying to the user that pass is wrong ... not display strange textg	20:23
lcuk	then you will need to incorporate a hash of the plaintext in with the string to encrypt	20:23
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Khertan_n810	lcuk: do you have already try crypted fs on maemo ... a real pain	20:23
lcuk	khertan_encrypt(pass,md5(text) & ":" & text)	20:24
lcuk	if the password is good you can recover the text and check the md5 matches	20:24
Khertan_n810	but a hash of the plain text on small text can be easily reverse	20:24
Stskeeps	it's encrypted..	20:24
Stskeeps	:P	20:24
lcuk	Khertan_n810, technically why bother - let it be wrong	20:25
lcuk	if you put the wrong key in you get gibberish	20:25
Khertan_n810	lcuk : because auto save feature will erase data	20:25
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lcuk	oooer, you are gonna be fighting then, either store the hash or dont bother with encryption	20:26
lcuk	which apps encrypt data on the fly anyway?	20:27
lcuk	ie where do you encounter encrypted data files currently	20:27
Khertan_n810	plenty	20:27
Stskeeps	Khertan_n810: given pass, plaintext: to encrypt. ciphertext = encrypt(pass, pass + text). to decrypt and verify: plaintext = decrypt(pass, ciphertext); if text.beginswith(pass) decryptionok? :P	20:28
lcuk	... ?	20:28
Stskeeps	that's not insecure	20:28
Stskeeps	:P	20:28
lcuk	if you are gonna do something like that, dont store pass inside - that was a mistake, just store something like the md5 of the plaintext	20:28
Stskeeps	lcuk: either is good :P	20:29
lcuk	all you need is a confirmation that its valid	20:29
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lcuk	tbh though its not good, because an attacker knows how they can validate your formula	20:29
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lcuk	Khertan_n810, found anything which does on the fly encryption yet? :D	20:30
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: Mer refuses to install xserver-xorg	20:30
Meiz_n810	xserver-xorg-core: Conflicts: xserver-xorg-input-2.1	20:30
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: yeah, johnx was working on it	20:30
Meiz_n810	xserver-xorg-k	20:30
Meiz_n810	k	20:30
Stskeeps	they updated something in ubuntu	20:30
Khertan_n810	lcuk ... yep not good	20:30
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Stskeeps	Khertan_n810: simple check really. does the text we just encrypted, using the original key, encrypt back to the ciphertext we got?	20:32
Stskeeps	encrypted=decrypted	20:32
lcuk	time + cpu + battery killer, K.I.S.S. principles - its getting muddy fast	20:32
Stskeeps	lcuk: yes, but its verification :P	20:33
Stskeeps	and a DES doesn't take that much cpu :P	20:33
lcuk	of what, ive just done a few hunt n peck searches and i cant find anything really that produces encrypted data files on the fly	20:33
Khertan_n810	stskeeps:yep encrypted key == decrypted key	20:35
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glass	port truecrypt? (just jumping in..)	20:36
lcuk	Stskeeps, YES the text you got back WILL return to the encrypted text using the key you gave it	20:36
lcuk	whether it was gibberish or not	20:36
qwerty12	glass, it's already been done but I think an really old version now...	20:36
glass	qwerty12: just started using tc with vista(for work partition)	20:36
Stskeeps	lcuk: meh, ok	20:36
* Stskeeps goes clean his apartment		20:36
glass	was pretty smooth. screw pgpdisk	20:36
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qwerty12	glass, nice, I once used it to hide some dubious tools on a usb I took into school :P	20:37
glass	qwerty12: haha	20:37
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pupnik	World War III coming? British nuclear submarines to run Windows XP... http://computer.t-online.de/c/17/16/22/60/17162260.html (german)	20:45
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qwerty12	We surrender	20:45
timelE61i	qWertz13	20:46
lcuk	lets hope they have valid licenses, we dont want pirates roaming the oceans	20:46
qwerty12	tImezE62i	20:46
timelE61i	Sorry, the z was a german ref	20:47
qwerty12	hehe :)	20:47
timelE61i	The W is a feature of s60	20:47
lcuk	qwertz	20:48
timelE61i	And the 3 is because i'm 1/2 finger tapping and i slipped	20:48
qwerty12	liqbasztard	20:48
qwerty12	:p	20:48
* qwerty12 is very imaginative, yes		20:49
lcuk	yes, you are	20:49
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t_s_o	i could have sworn that i have read about a us warship running win2k...	20:53
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* qwerty12 has an affinity for win2k, despite it being years since running it... probably because it saved me from windows ME..		20:54
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derf	Many US military systems run Windows.	20:55
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derf	What should really scare you is that we've shipped systems running HP/UX.	20:56
Juhaz	t_s_o, it was nt4, but you probably have.	20:56
Juhaz	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Yorktown_(CG-48)	20:56
aquatix	that win2k ship was dead in the water because of some worm back then iirc	20:57
aquatix	fun stuff	20:57
aquatix	well, scary rather, but still	20:57
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Juhaz	fun enough if it's just propulsion, but if gunnery systems with nuclear missiles in them are under windows control, well, better start planning for the move to next planet.	20:59
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t_s_o	skynet, here we come	21:00
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Juhaz	I wish, it'd be a lot more credible way to go to design something so advanced it takes over	21:02
Juhaz	rather than something so crappy it destroys the world by accident	21:02
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Stskeeps	t_s_o: skynet.. running on windows? i doubt it	21:03
aquatix	`you are about to launch missile m42, cancel or allow?'	21:03
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cyberholic	goooood evening everyone!	21:04
t_s_o	Stskeeps: no clue there, but it will be using british satelites ;)	21:05
Stskeeps	http://blogs.msdn.com/architectsrule/archive/2008/07/01/real-life-dilbert-manager-quotes.aspx <- hah	21:05
t_s_o	aquatix: more like "imidiate or right now?"	21:06
Juhaz	murphy's law states that the person using the dialog will be the only mac or gnome person on the boat, used to alternative button order and clicking wrong one by reflex	21:06
Stskeeps	lol	21:06
aquatix	t_s_o: i was sort of referring to the annoying vista dialog in which everyone bashes `allow' anyway ;)	21:07
GAN800	Maybe our new argument for beta releases will be: 'We'll stop filing shit bugs if you give us earlier access'	21:07
t_s_o	Juhaz: try mixing gnome and non-gnome apps on the same desktop. oh how fun...	21:07
aquatix	Juhaz: ghehe	21:07
GAN800	The bugs on each new SSU release seem to be getting progressively less useful.	21:07
t_s_o	aquatix: heh, out of habit after about 5 mins ;)	21:07
cyberholic	hey guys, i have a proove that my n800 has feelings!!!!!!!	21:07
Stskeeps	you were the guy with the wet SD slot?	21:08
cyberholic	nah, not me. i am the guy with the mad flash ideas.	21:08
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cyberholic	i developed a site where you can see that you can interact with the n800.... go check this out: http://www.mojocafe.net/heart.html ... :)	21:09
cyberholic	put your finger on the area and you will see that the device checks your pulse!	21:10
Stskeeps	hehe	21:10
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cyberholic	i only need that "emergency room" heartbeat sound ... anyone knows where to get that?	21:11
GAN800	Who can find the bug here? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3930	21:11
GAN800	ecg on youtube?	21:11
aquatix	cyberholic: doesn't work; but that might be because i'm on my laptop ;)	21:11
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aquatix	or does it mean i'm a zombie	21:11
cyberholic	lol... yeah. you gotta try it out on your device. touch the area and you will see your heartbeat	21:12
cyberholic	loooooooool true!!!!!	21:12
Stskeeps	cyberholic: it works when holding down mouse button too ;)	21:12
cyberholic	stskeeps: aeh...... well... aeh..... oh, my bus. i gotta go! byeeeeeeee! lol	21:13
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aquatix	Stskeeps: but only once a cycle	21:13
Stskeeps	cyberholic: hehe	21:13
* aquatix slaps cyberholic around a bit		21:13
aquatix	:P	21:13
t_s_o	and i thought that i-am-free was silly...	21:13
cyberholic	:D	21:13
aquatix	ghehe	21:13
aquatix	i was actually thinking that it might use the pressure sensitiveness of the screen	21:14
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cyberholic	lol... yeah, it MIGHT do that if your device likes you!	21:14
aquatix	it does	21:14
aquatix	i think	21:14
aquatix	it knows too much of me ;)	21:15
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qwerty12_N800	the porn sites you visit etc... :p	21:16
t_s_o	meh, only geek porn ;)	21:16
cyberholic	looooooool	21:16
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cyberholic	you visit porn on ya device?	21:16
qwerty12_N800	I was asking aquatix :P	21:17
qwerty12_N800	Nah, screen is too small :p	21:17
cyberholic	i thought NOKIA devices come automaticly with an adult protection. also for phone calls etc.	21:17
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cyberholic	:)	21:20
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r2d2rogers	it would be nice to have a way to see the timezone spread in a channel ....	21:22
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Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: i think johnx would be moving between US time and japanese time .. :P	21:22
r2d2rogers	wow	21:23
r2d2rogers	so we kinda have the globe in three eh?	21:23
r2d2rogers	uk, US, Jp ?	21:23
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Stskeeps	at least	21:24
r2d2rogers	err no you're not UK forgot...	21:24
Stskeeps	.dk	21:24
Stskeeps	:P	21:24
r2d2rogers	denmark?	21:24
r2d2rogers	yeah	21:24
r2d2rogers	should I try gdb on another process bofore I kill spawood?	21:25
r2d2rogers	spazwood?	21:25
Stskeeps	has strace_sapwood-server.log (Modified) Row 749 Col 1 8:27 Ctrl-K H for help	21:26
Stskeeps	_llseek(5, -6, [112], SEEK_CUR) = 0	21:26
Stskeeps	.. been running for a while?	21:26
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r2d2rogers	yeah since I went to lunch	21:27
Stskeeps	k	21:27
Stskeeps	scp over new log?	21:27
RST38h	Ho ho ho	21:28
RST38h	It works!	21:28
Stskeeps	what works?	21:28
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r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: I don't think it's different, but it's there	21:29
Stskeeps	k	21:29
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r2d2rogers	still nothing in the other	21:29
Stskeeps	and then it just runs to 100%	21:29
Stskeeps	interesting	21:29
r2d2rogers	seems like it's stuck trying to get something, but the other process isn't responding?	21:29
Stskeeps	no, on the contrary	21:29
Stskeeps	it doesn't do any system calls	21:30
Stskeeps	you had gdb?	21:30
r2d2rogers	?	21:31
r2d2rogers	had? have...	21:31
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Stskeeps	grab http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/gtk2-engines-sapwood-dbg_3.1.1-1_armel.deb and gdb /usr/lib/debug/usr/lib/debug/usr/lib/sapwood/sapwood-server	21:32
Stskeeps	+ <PID OF SAPWOOD>	21:32
Stskeeps	gdb /usr/lib/debug/usr/lib/debug/usr/lib/sapwood/sapwood-server <sapwood-server pid>	21:33
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Stskeeps	and bt	21:33
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r2d2rogers	wilco	21:34
Stskeeps	.. ok, maybe just /usr/lib/debug/usr/lib/sapwood/sapwood-server	21:35
Stskeeps	:P	21:35
r2d2rogers	verify, rerun start hildon with this or jsut run the gdb with that patha nd the current running process?	21:36
Stskeeps	running process	21:36
Stskeeps	.. if it fails, remove stracing	21:37
r2d2rogers	k	21:37
r2d2rogers	warning: Unable to find dynamic linker breakpoint function. GDB will be unable to debug shared library initializers and track explicitly loaded dynamic code.	21:43
r2d2rogers	after removing the strace	21:43
r2d2rogers	(gdb) bt	21:43
r2d2rogers	#0 0x40722a24 in ?? ()	21:43
r2d2rogers	should I be running the debug one from start hildon?	21:44
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RST38h	Sts: VGBA	21:53
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Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: that's awkward..	21:54
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: try do that	21:54
Stskeeps	RST38h: ah	21:54
r2d2rogers	k	21:54
r2d2rogers	sorry for delay had email to answer :\	21:54
Stskeeps	oh, i cleaned the kitchen and went to the laundry room in the meantime	21:55
Stskeeps	:P	21:55
Stskeeps	didn't even notice ;)	21:55
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Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: .. any possibility of a ssh connection into it?	21:57
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Stskeeps	i think i know how to replicate it, so	21:58
r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: funky but doable	21:58
r2d2rogers	hang one	21:59
Stskeeps	reverse ssh tunnel is possible too	21:59
Stskeeps	sec	21:59
r2d2rogers	exactly	21:59
r2d2rogers	yeah	21:59
r2d2rogers	goo thought	21:59
r2d2rogers	tell me what port?	21:59
Stskeeps	ssh -R 0.0.0.0:10022:127.0.0.0.1:22 r2d2rogers@trac.tspre.org	21:59
r2d2rogers	k	21:59
Stskeeps	er	21:59
Stskeeps	127.0.0.1	21:59
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r2d2rogers	yeah <G>	21:59
Stskeeps	not ipv6 yet..	21:59
r2d2rogers	what user you want?	22:00
Stskeeps	any :P	22:00
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mentalmonkey	hello I overtly discussed my interest in improving osso-xterm's capabilities to integrate with thumb pad input, and in general make n8x0 a better experience for cli lovers like myself but I'm not sure of what SDK I should work with, 4.1.x or 5 - I'm a hobbyist and a novice	22:01
mentalmonkey	s/thumb pad/thumb keyboard	22:02
Stskeeps	4.1.x probably	22:02
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mentalmonkey	Stskeeps: I just don't want to invest a lot of time and just as I get somewhere 5 is released to the general public - however will 5 be useful for n8x0 devices - I should really be looking at the forum but you might have an immediate partial answer	22:03
Stskeeps	mentalmonkey: fact is none of us really know much about interfaces or anything, and that fremantle is atleast half a year ago..	22:03
Stskeeps	er	22:03
Stskeeps	from now	22:03
lardman	hmm, 16bit sbc doesn't sound too hot	22:04
Stskeeps	mentalmonkey: and n8x0 users aren't going to disappear here and now	22:05
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mentalmonkey	ok, so Diablo it is then, for the time being	22:06
mentalmonkey	does anyone know if the SDK for diablo can be installed via chroot on a x64_86 architecture using Archlinux - not Debian based?	22:09
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mentalmonkey	I am more than willing to use a virtual machine for this task, but if a chroot will work I think I prefer this	22:09
mentalmonkey	s/will work/will most likely :)	22:09
Stskeeps	it has to load some binfmt stuff.. so take a vm instead	22:10
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ShadowJK_	urgh, binfmt? wtf	22:15
mentalmonkey	?	22:15
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dick-richardson	how do you use openntpd?	22:15
Stskeeps	ShadowJK_: i kinda don't blame them. fakechroot stuff is weird	22:15
ShadowJK_	the perversedness of their sdk continues to amaze me the more I hear about it	22:16
mentalmonkey	ntpd -s - to set your time for instance	22:16
dick-richardson	I can't tell what bin was installed...	22:16
dick-richardson	mentalmonkey, thank you!	22:16
mentalmonkey	dick-richardson: I this works for what is installed on maemo? if it does great!!	22:16
dick-richardson	seems to	22:16
mentalmonkey	awesome :)	22:17
ShadowJK_	If you're going to do sick things, do the sickly cool things, like NetBSD's build system that cross builds itself and netbsd, on anything, anywhere :-)	22:17
mentalmonkey	ok, so vm for me not exactly the way I would have wanted to go, but not terrible	22:17
Stskeeps	mentalmonkey: better than having to install windows..	22:18
t_s_o	hmm, im starting to like packageview...	22:18
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mentalmonkey	Stskeeps: :)	22:18
mentalmonkey	I've never used kvm - would that work	22:20
qwerty12_N800	Is it a necessity that I have to have a virtual keyboard installed to use ScummVM properly (N800)? :)	22:20
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Stskeeps	qwerty12_N800: i ran beneath a steel sky okay	22:20
mentalmonkey	I want to get the most bang for installing a a few gigs. of SDK	22:20
qwerty12_N800	mentalmonkey, easiest way is probably vmware as a ready image exists	22:20
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qwerty12_N800	Stskeeps, thanks	22:21
disco_stu	mentalmonkey, use virtualbox	22:21
mentalmonkey	disco_stu: ok, no fancy stuff then, you all recommend "do what works" I stick with that policy this time then :)	22:21
mentalmonkey	atleast	22:21
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dick-richardson	mentalmonkey, does ntpd run once and exit?	22:23
mentalmonkey	dick-richardson: not as far as I know, ps -A \| grep ntp	22:23
slonopotamus	hell o	22:24
qwerty12_N800	h ello	22:24
mentalmonkey	is this the right place to grab the vm http://maemovmware.garage.maemo.org/	22:24
qwerty12_N800	yep, for vmware	22:25
mentalmonkey	I'm going easy peezy this time	22:25
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mentalmonkey	for the SDK is virtualbox fine or will I need vmware (player)?	22:26
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GAN8001	mentalmonkey, there was some discussion from Nokia about opening up the XTerm development.	22:26
mentalmonkey	GAN8001: you mean it is NOT open right now, oh my	22:27
GAN8001	mentalmonkey, the source is open	22:27
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GAN8001	But the development mostly takes place behind closed doors.	22:27
GAN8001	The idea would be to move all development into the open so the community has more power over osso-xterm's direction.	22:28
mentalmonkey	GAN8001: oh my I should learn to ask the right questions before downloading gigabytes of SDK :D	22:28
GAN8001	Either way, it's a POSITIVE thing that times nicely with you wanting to get into hacking on it. :)	22:29
mentalmonkey	GAN8001: but it sounds somewhat tentative for Nokia will do with xterm, at least from what you have written above	22:30
mentalmonkey	GAN8001: do you what time frame this will take place?	22:30
GAN8001	osso-xterm is being developed within Nokia at the moment as open source code	22:30
GAN8001	the plan is to move that development process outside of Nokia and into the community	22:31
GAN8001	This is a GOOD THING. ;)	22:31
mentalmonkey	but the time frame?	22:31
GAN8001	Quim just mentioned it yesterday	22:31
GAN8001	So the plan is just now forming	22:31
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mentalmonkey	ok, so I should install the SDK but be relaxed an in a few months it will happen?	22:32
disco_stu	at last.. community will end up with an xterm on steroids	22:33
mentalmonkey	awesome for an n800 this is very good	22:33
RST38h	or many little xterms	22:33
GAN8001	mentalmonkey, start hacking now and push your good patches to bugs.maemo.org as enhancement requests as you make them.	22:34
GAN8001	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3929	22:34
mentalmonkey	GAN8001: thanks!	22:34
GAN8001	mentalmonkey, my recommendation is to dive in and just get hacking. ;)	22:35
GAN8001	The Maemo 5 SDK will be more ready for application-level hacking around the time of the beta release in ~April.	22:35
`0660	i really wish that feature request would be solved	22:37
mentalmonkey	GAN8001: I'm applying to grad. schools in particle physics right now - meaning I have lots of other stuff happening - but I am interested improving o-xterm so I will get started	22:37
`0660	irc is quite boring when i need to copy paste links by hand	22:37
mentalmonkey	`0660: boring or frustrating ? :)	22:37
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Stskeeps	dear god, thank you for inventing wifi and tablets. i can wait in laundry room, connected to my wifi with my tablet	22:38
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lcuk2	Stskeeps, to remind you of these times you should see if theres a laundry screensaver	22:39
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`0660	mentalmonkey, frustrating :)	22:40
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Vulcanis	Hmm, would anyone happen to know a good way to format a card that even windows doesn't recognize when I plug the n800 in?	22:48
disco_stu	Vulcanis, you dont windows to be able to see the card?	22:50
Vulcanis	no	22:50
Vulcanis	it /can't/ and I'm trying to recover it	22:50
Vulcanis	but its looking like its pretty dead right now	22:50
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florian	re	23:02
dick-richardson	where are known networks saved?	23:03
qwerty12_N801	dick-richardson, gconf	23:03
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dick-richardson	I have a backup of /home...how do I import that into a newly flashed device?	23:04
dick-richardson	w/o overwriting the existing gconf	23:04
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dick-richardson	er.../etc rather	23:08
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GAN8001	Stskeeps, I'm just glad I don't have to wait in mine. :P	23:15
Stskeeps	mm, managed to catch one quickly	23:15
Stskeeps	i had the washer throw an exception at me though, "error getting water"	23:15
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ShadowJK_	you need iWater(TM)	23:22
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dick-richardson	no way to restore known networks with /etc and /home backed up?	23:24
TrueJournals	dick-richardson: known networks are stored in gconf... which is stored in... /var I think?	23:25
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christendoc	any mer/deblet guys have experience with binutils not recognizing the --mfloat-abi=softfp flag?	23:25
TrueJournals	dick-richardson: actually... nevermind... gconf seems to be in /etc.. let me get a path for you to restore	23:26
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vandenoever	i'm trying to download the firmware but the form on nokia.com does not recognize my wlan code	23:27
vandenoever	is there a way to download it anyway?	23:28
TrueJournals	dick-richardson: Ah, nevermind... gconf IS stored in /var	23:29
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TrueJournals	However, /etc/osso-af-init/gconf-dir is a link to the configuration dir... depending on how you did the backup, you MIGHT have the data there	23:30
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TrueJournals	vandenoever: Do you have a n800 or n810?	23:31
vandenoever	TrueJournals: both, but i'm updating the n810	23:31
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vandenoever	TrueJournals: it's in need of a fresh flash, it keeps rebooting	23:31
TrueJournals	vandenoever: Do you run Windows, linux, or osx?	23:32
vandenoever	TrueJournals: linux	23:33
qwerty12_N801	vandenoever, it's easy to find a load of n810 mac addresses on the internet..	23:33
vandenoever	http://tablets-dev.nokia.com/nokia_N810.php does not recognize the mac address	23:33
vandenoever	qwerty12_N801: thanks! i found some	23:35
vandenoever	still weird that mine is not recognized	23:35
Stskeeps	N810W or N810?	23:36
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LinuxCode	impressive	23:37
LinuxCode	the new update makes the N810 faster	23:37
LinuxCode	its way more responsive now	23:37
vandenoever	Stskeeps: N810 (not W)	23:37
LinuxCode	thank god	23:37
LinuxCode	back to normal	23:38
vandenoever	any of you running kde4 on it?	23:38
disco_stu	LinuxCode, i had the same impression	23:38
LinuxCode	hopefully it will drain my battery less too	23:39
LinuxCode	i suspect that was the bug causing the sluggishness and battery consumption	23:39
disco_stu	im not having very good bat lifetime since i clonned os to sd	23:39
Stskeeps	LinuxCode: X optimization	23:40
Stskeeps	s	23:40
disco_stu	speed is now great	23:40
GAN8001	Ahaha	23:41
GAN8001	Stskeeps, I see your edit in the recent changes. :P	23:41
GAN8001	I was actually talking about hard-wrapping on the SSU page. :P	23:41
Stskeeps	it's called fear.	23:42
Stskeeps	:P	23:42
* GAN8001 plays with the banhammer. :P		23:42
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Stskeeps	i really wonder what's wrong with these armv5 processors	23:47
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Stskeeps	sapwood goes horridly insane on them	23:47
Stskeeps	lo b-man	23:47
b-man	hello	23:48
Stskeeps	b-man: so how's the installer going?	23:49
b-man	i'm now to the debugging stage of the installer.	23:49
Stskeeps	alright	23:49
b-man	i'm trying to hunt down this annoying syntax error :P	23:49
b-man	in 366 lines of code	23:50
Stskeeps	hehe	23:50
Stskeeps	what is it made in?	23:50
b-man	bash	23:50
Stskeeps	fair enough	23:50
b-man	do you know of any good bash debugging methods?	23:51
sp3000	-eux and patience? :)	23:51
b-man	i've tryed sh -x and have had no luck.	23:52
Stskeeps	b-man: set -x -e maybe	23:52
Stskeeps	in top of file	23:52
Stskeeps	die when something goes wrong	23:52
b-man	i'll try that, thanks!	23:52
Stskeeps	and be verbose	23:53
b-man	verbose?	23:53
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vandenoever	ah, my maemo is back	23:53
Vulcanis	is anyone any good at recovering SD cards, or would know how to?	23:54
b-man	is it corrupt?	23:55
Vulcanis	well, I don't actually know. I'm trying to format it, but currently it doesn't show up in windows or the n800	23:55
Vulcanis	I'm assuming its dead, but I was wondering if there were any ways I would not have looked at	23:55
disco_stu	did you clone your os ?	23:56
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b-man	mkdosfs /dev/mmcblk0p1 or p2?	23:56
Vulcanis	Nah, I was trying to partition a spare 4gb I had lying around	23:56
Vulcanis	but never actually got around to cloning things.	23:56
disco_stu	cause when partitioned windows wont see it	23:56
Vulcanis	ah, ok.	23:57
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b-man	in terminal in maemo you can use fsdisk -uM /dev/mmcblk0 / mmcblk1	23:58
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b-man	that's how i partition my mmc.	23:58
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Vulcanis	thanks.	23:59

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