IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2008-12-09

lardman	http://www.xhl.com.cn/ramtron/Si4712-13_short.pdf	00:00
lcuk	so i need to get you lot bibs? you are drooling	00:00
lardman	yes :)	00:00
lcuk	so, do i ^	00:00
lcuk	lol	00:00
Stskeeps	yes indeed	00:01
lardman	hmm, that can transmit RDS data	00:01
Stskeeps	solca: wifi driver looks oss	00:01
solca	suihkulokki: you shoud procure us (Stskeeps and me) some boards to point and fix any problems ;P	00:01
lcuk	this device is gonna be sweeeeeeeeeeeeeeet	00:01
*** tulkastaldo has quit IRC		00:01
solca	Stskeeps: right	00:01
Stskeeps	solca: i'd end up just drooling on it.	00:01
Stskeeps	and damage it :(	00:01
lcuk	nokia: provide drip trays	00:01
lardman	Is there an FM receiver?	00:01
*** gentooer has quit IRC		00:01
Stskeeps	haven't seen one yet :/	00:02
Stskeeps	is it needed with 3g? :P	00:02
solca	Stskeeps: it seems wifi will be oss and {mac,cfg}80211 based: NEAT!!!	00:02
lcuk	better gps?	00:02
Stskeeps	k, im going to go insane if i read this patch through	00:03
*** henrique_ has left #maemo		00:03
lcuk	keep calm	00:03
*** benh has quit IRC		00:03
solca	brief description: RX51 rules!!	00:03
lardman	Stskeeps: thought RDS might be interesting to try to download traffic info	00:03
*** tulkastaldo has joined #maemo		00:04
Stskeeps	lardman: yeah, true	00:04
solca	too bad is not based on 2.6.28 so it doesnt' use the new in kernel power,driver facilities	00:05
*** ignacius has joined #maemo		00:05
lcuk	still time isnt there	00:05
ShadowJK	hm, how does ubifs compare to logfs?	00:06
solca	Stskeeps: definitely it looks good	00:08
solca	Stskeeps: now if we could have some borads will be nice for our projects	00:08
solca	Stskeeps: same lauch day support :)	00:08
solca	s/lauch/launch/	00:08
infobot	solca meant: Stskeeps: same launch day support :)	00:08
lardman	PM: Changed secure RAM storage size from 0x8000 to 0x803F	00:08
lardman	interesting, does that mean it uses some of the secure features	00:09
lardman	perhaps to support the sim card?	00:09
Stskeeps	ok, headphone amplifier, ambient light sensor, http://www.st.com/stonline/products/literature/ds/12726/lis302dl.htm (one of these honeys), http://rafb.net/p/cxSmi179.html	00:09
Stskeeps	and some confusing video decoders	00:09
*** gentooer has joined #maemo		00:10
*** datachaos has quit IRC		00:10
Stskeeps	broadcom bt ..	00:10
Stskeeps	+CONFIG_PVR_SUPPORT_SGX1=y	00:10
Stskeeps	hmm ..	00:10
lardman	* Phonet: fix oops in phonet_address_del() on non-Phonet device	00:10
lardman	hmm	00:10
Stskeeps	lardman: celluar modem	00:10
lardman	ok	00:10
solca	RX51: Add support for twl4030 keypad to rx51	00:11
Stskeeps	we should probably think that this -might- be a devel board	00:11
*** Knowledge has quit IRC		00:11
lardman	yeah	00:11
lardman	* RX51: Boards currently in use require separate VDIG	00:12
GeneralAntilles	Mmm, accelerometers	00:12
*** Knowledge has joined #maemo		00:12
*** Marzec has quit IRC		00:12
lcuk	* RX51: added support for kitchen sink	00:12
lcuk	yup, its a dev board	00:12
Stskeeps	lcuk: heh	00:12
Stskeeps	still	00:12
lcuk	excuse me a moment	00:12
* lcuk walks to the other side of the room and covers up		00:13
lcuk	FUCKING AWESOME!!!!	00:13
* lcuk walks calmly back		00:13
Stskeeps	huh..	00:13
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	00:13
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, I'm giddy on the inside	00:13
lcuk	yeah	00:13
lcuk	christmas and all that :D	00:13
lcuk	this is gonna be so much fun!	00:13
Stskeeps	what did i just run into ..	00:14
GeneralAntilles	accelerometers . . . man	00:14
lcuk	the amount of doors this opens is amazing	00:14
*** danilocesar has quit IRC		00:14
* lcuk flies around the room with his arms out		00:14
* GeneralAntilles shoots the flying zombie		00:14
lardman	you get this one?: http://www.analog.com/en/power-management/display-and-lighting/ADP1653/products/product.html	00:14
lardman	* RX51: Small delay for adp1653 power-up	00:15
*** eichi_ has quit IRC		00:15
lcuk	where are you actually reading this lot from	00:15
GeneralAntilles	Hehe, it's got a flash. :P	00:15
*** JussiP has joined #maemo		00:15
lardman	kernel Changelog	00:15
Stskeeps	lcuk: there's pvr stuff in the diff btw	00:15
lardman	http://www.aptina.com/assets/downloadDocument.do?id=178	00:16
lardman	nice	00:16
GeneralAntilles	With a big bright screen, the flash LED, and the indicator LED, we can turn this thing into a regular brick'o'light	00:16
Stskeeps	SGX though	00:16
Stskeeps	not MBX	00:16
lardman	* MT9P012: Add driver	00:16
Stskeeps	lardman: there's mixed linux and nokia patches	00:16
lardman	it's also got a vga camera, which is good	00:17
lardman	ah ok	00:17
GeneralAntilles	Oh really?	00:17
lardman	* VS6555: Maximum exposure hack	00:17
GeneralAntilles	Dual cam	00:17
Stskeeps	interesting.. there might be MBX pieces in it too	00:17
GeneralAntilles	that'll make a lot of people interesting	00:17
* solca is building the nokia kernel		00:17
*** RST38bis has joined #maemo		00:17
lardman	http://66.102.9.132/search?q=cache:zzCsWsJLEcMJ:www.st.com/stonline/products/promlit/pdf/flstv09860208.pdf+VS6555&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=2&gl=uk&client=firefox-a	00:17
Stskeeps	+menuconfig PVR	00:18
Stskeeps	+tristate "PowerVR Services framework"	00:18
Stskeeps	+help	00:18
Stskeeps	+ Kernel-level support for the Imagination PowerVR Services framework.	00:18
Stskeeps	+ This module provides support for resource handling for a PVR	00:18
Stskeeps	+ compatible 2D/3D graphics accelerator like the Imagination MBX and	00:18
Stskeeps	+ SGX accelerator cores.	00:18
*** mardi__ has quit IRC		00:18
Stskeeps	(sorry for paste)	00:18
GeneralAntilles	Soooo, who wants to compile all this into wikipedia rumor mongering? :P	00:18
*** eichi__ has quit IRC		00:18
lcuk	you :P	00:18
*** mardi__ has joined #maemo		00:19
lardman	I wonder what an ET8EK8 is?	00:19
Stskeeps	looks like DSPbridge has omap24xx stuff too	00:19
Stskeeps	lardman: ok, is it a SGX or a MBX in our nokias?	00:20
GeneralAntilles	Hrm, 15fps 720p	00:20
Stskeeps	cos i'm confused now	00:20
lardman	atm?	00:20
lardman	MBX	00:20
Stskeeps	k	00:20
lardman	:) * UBIFS: do not print scary memory allocation warnings	00:20
solca	drivers/net/wireless/wl12xx/	00:21
lcuk	+ * UBIFS: get rid of scary lockup warnings	00:21
lcuk	mmmm lardman	00:21
*** eichi has joined #maemo		00:22
*** jakemaheu has joined #maemo		00:23
*** eichi has quit IRC		00:23
jakemaheu	Hello	00:23
Stskeeps	evening	00:23
lardman	* Now that's better...	00:23
lardman	lol	00:23
*** Ryback_ has quit IRC		00:24
*** eichi has joined #maemo		00:25
*** RST38bis has quit IRC		00:27
lardman	anyway, looks pretty cool :)	00:27
lardman	where can I get patchutils from for scratchbox? build it myself I guess	00:27
*** eichi_ has joined #maemo		00:28
*** k-s has quit IRC		00:30
jakemaheu	has anyone had ideas on what the community is going to do about maemo 5 on the n8xx series?	00:30
Stskeeps	jakemaheu: plenty.	00:30
* jakemaheu has an n800		00:30
* Stskeeps is brewing new libhildon atm		00:30
jakemaheu	snazzy	00:31
Stskeeps	~mer	00:31
infobot	somebody said mer was http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed , http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint , http://launchpad.net/m-r , http://jaiku.com/channel/reconstructedPOC , http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i/ (short summary)	00:31
Stskeeps	look into that	00:31
*** hfwilke has quit IRC		00:32
*** chelli has quit IRC		00:33
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer.txt , raw sketch of idea for management and development method..	00:33
Stskeeps	very raw sketch	00:33
*** Mousey has joined #maemo		00:33
solca	Stskeeps: it seems the new kernel ships with powervr kernel support	00:34
Stskeeps	yeah, for sgx, omap3	00:34
solca	Stskeeps: and what about oma2xxx	00:34
Stskeeps	doubtful	00:34
*** gentooer has quit IRC		00:34
solca	Stskeeps: other projects doesn't have mbx drivers?	00:35
Stskeeps	only binary blobs i believe	00:35
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, do you want to try to round everybody up and schedule something?	00:35
GeneralAntilles	My availability during the day is gonna shoot way down after the end of this week	00:35
solca	Stskeeps: do you know where to find thos blobs?	00:36
Stskeeps	solca: think lardman knows more about this than i do	00:36
solca	lardman: ?	00:36
Stskeeps	lardman: did you ever try the info functions and info types thing btw?	00:36
lardman	solca: the only thing we have is a 2.4.x driver for the omap2430	00:36
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: well, it depends on who to involve i guess	00:36
lardman	Nokia have a 2.6.x driver but it's not separable into GPL + blob, so can't be released	00:37
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, I'd try to schedule around all of the usual suspets	00:37
Stskeeps	maybe a call for interested parts	00:37
GeneralAntilles	then leave an open invitation for everybody else	00:37
*** corq-FL has joined #maemo		00:37
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, that layout looks quite fine to me	00:37
solca	lardman: they ever ship something with that 2.6 driver?	00:38
Stskeeps	yeah.. something like it is definately needed cos i'll go mad if i deal with all of them at once ;)	00:38
GeneralAntilles	though, in the short term anyway, I think it's likely to be overly organized for the small team we're going to have.	00:38
lardman	solca: not that I know of	00:38
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: yeah, that's true	00:38
lardman	Stskeeps: I have the DWARF output somewhere here	00:38
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, are you sure about Launchpad?	00:38
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: not 100%	00:38
solca	lardman: the 2.4 drivers have a glue source or something?	00:39
*** simon_ has joined #maemo		00:39
Stskeeps	but it does have a low entry	00:39
lardman	solca: at least not for an omap, though there was something for another main processor iitc	00:39
GeneralAntilles	Speaking from the direction of "communities" rather than "what's actually a good tool" I'd prefer to see it done in Garage.	00:39
Stskeeps	i wouldn't mind a similar thing on maemo.org	00:39
lardman	solca: there's a kernel driver + userland library which uses it	00:39
GeneralAntilles	But that's assuming it actually supports the features you need/want	00:39
Stskeeps	like, with ease of having bzr branches and such, teams, etc	00:39
Stskeeps	yeah.. and that is what im wondering a bit about :)	00:39
lardman	crap, I forgot to enable vfp	00:40
GeneralAntilles	That said, there's nothing precluding it from being adapted to your needs as we move along.	00:40
*** greentux has joined #maemo		00:40
solca	lardman: the library is libGL.so or what? linked against X11 or for fbdevs?	00:40
*** bipolar_ has quit IRC		00:40
lardman	both are available	00:40
lardman	I posted a directory listing the other day, let me find it	00:41
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, I think I'd like to put together a blog post to stir up some interest.	00:41
Stskeeps	alright, sounds like a plan	00:41
Stskeeps	"So, you are disappointed you won't have Fremantle on your N8x0.."	00:41
Stskeeps	:P	00:41
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, please, please, please re-add some sanity? :) http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=247957&postcount=59	00:42
lardman	http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/untitled.jpg	00:42
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, god no.	00:42
GeneralAntilles	I'm gonna avoid anything that might agitate the users. ;)	00:42
GeneralAntilles	These people seem to be failing absolutely to see what's right in front of them.	00:43
*** corq-FL has quit IRC		00:43
*** corq-FL has joined #maemo		00:43
*** eichi has quit IRC		00:43
*** guardian has quit IRC		00:44
*** corq-FL has quit IRC		00:44
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, my personal feeling with Launchpad is that even though the barrier to entry is low, it's higher than using a maemo.org service	00:44
*** corq-FL has joined #maemo		00:44
timeless	ping	00:44
ShadowJK	GeneralAntilles, it's slashdot-itis, you don't read the article, just the headline	00:44
GeneralAntilles	Because, generally, I think the type of people you're after will have maemo.org accounts.	00:44
timeless	anyone know if conic is deprecated?	00:44
Stskeeps	i dont think so	00:45
Stskeeps	conic is actually not a directly bad thing	00:45
*** bef0rd has joined #maemo		00:45
*** juergbi has quit IRC		00:46
timeless	which api did they deprecate?	00:46
*** eichi_ has quit IRC		00:47
lardman	timeless: Quim said that some of the REMOVED items have just not been added back in yet	00:47
timeless	i'm not talking about maemo 5	00:48
timeless	i'm talking about 4.1	00:48
* timeless doesn't care about maemo 5		00:48
timeless	it doesn't exis	00:48
*** corq-FL has quit IRC		00:48
timeless	t	00:48
* jakemaheu says " who needs it, anyways"		00:48
lardman	ah sorry	00:48
*** bipolar_ has joined #maemo		00:49
*** eichi_ has joined #maemo		00:49
timeless	there were two networking stories	00:50
timeless	conic and perhaps dbus ?	00:50
timeless	i can never remember which one was the 'bad' one	00:50
timeless	i guess it was the dbus one	00:50
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, sounds right.	00:50
GeneralAntilles	Conic is definitely not deprecated for Diablo	00:51
timeless	each time i ask this question, i have to go back and read the sources which touch both and remember 'oh that's the lame one'	00:51
timeless	it happens about 1-2 times a year	00:51
GeneralAntilles	You need a post-it note. :P	00:51
timeless	i have post it notes	00:52
timeless	in fact, a coworker gave me a stack of them as a going away present	00:52
timeless	(he went away!)	00:52
*** luck^ has quit IRC		00:52
timeless	silly guy decided that getting married was more important than sticking out the winter	00:52
*** bef0rd has quit IRC		00:54
*** corq-FL has joined #maemo		00:55
*** setanta has quit IRC		00:55
\|\|cw	silly cow-orker	00:55
\|\|cw	i mean co-worker	00:55
timeless	i think he went to visit the goats, somewhere up in the mountains northeast of the indian holy cows	00:56
lcuk	lardman, the pvr stuff for the 2430 - that looks "interesting"	00:56
\|\|cw	ah, then cow-orker fits	00:56
timeless	anyone here know anything about hildon status bar?	00:58
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=247968&postcount=64	00:59
*** TokyoDan has joined #maemo		00:59
*** datachaos has joined #maemo		00:59
timeless	<blockquote>	00:59
timeless	Hildon Status Bar	00:59
timeless	Status bar is a UI component, displaying the status of various system tasks with	00:59
timeless	a small icon image on the main window. The maemo status bar can contain	00:59
timeless	user-defined items as well. Normally there is a place for two of these additional	00:59
timeless	items. These two slots are by default used by the usb connection indicator and	00:59
timeless	alarm indicator, but can be used by any plug-in. Although plug-ins can specify	00:59
timeless	a priority, the current version of the status bar does not handle the plug-in	00:59
timeless	priorities, so only two newest plug-ins are visible.	00:59
timeless	</blockquote>	00:59
timeless	is that true?	00:59
GeneralAntilles	Thanks, Stskeeps. :P	01:00
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: sorry, i just got offended by that post too :P	01:00
GeneralAntilles	The bit about priorities sounds odd	01:00
timeless	the whole thing sounds odd	01:01
GeneralAntilles	Presumably they're talking about sorting them in Panels in Control Panel	01:01
timeless	i'm more interested in the two slots bit	01:01
timeless	i don't think so	01:01
timeless	you couldn't call that unimplemented	01:01
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: there's a status bar policy .so or something	01:01
GeneralAntilles	"main window" is awkward and non-descriptive	01:01
timeless	but seriously, what's w/ the 2 slots?	01:01
* GeneralAntilles doesn't know.		01:02
timeless	if i get 3 new status bar things, which oens go haywir?	01:02
timeless	pretend i lost the batteries for my devices :)	01:02
*** jagernot has joined #maemo		01:03
timeless	does restore not actually kill all running apps before it starts?	01:03
*** simon_ has quit IRC		01:04
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: oh, and, definately a -sdk team too :P	01:05
r2d2rogers	d	01:05
Stskeeps	evening r2d2rogers	01:06
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, I'm hoping we'll be able to con some Pandora folks into helping out.	01:06
lardman	nice post Stskeeps	01:06
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: if i get my idea of making it cross-platform through, yeah	01:06
Stskeeps	lardman: i work best at midnight	01:06
Stskeeps	:P	01:06
GeneralAntilles	It's too bad Nokia basically shipped the only Linux OMAP2 device.	01:06
lcuk	timescales seems similar gen - and feature set over here seems better	01:06
timeless	oh, right, anyone here have skype?	01:06
Stskeeps	i do, but my tablet is laying over on my table	01:07
timeless	could you try something for me?	01:07
Stskeeps	.. i guess	01:07
timeless	1. w/o skyp running, set an alarm for +5mins	01:07
timeless	2. w/ skype running, set an alarm for +5mins	01:07
timeless	(wait forthe alarm to fire between steps)	01:07
timeless	3. w/ skype running, set an alarm for +5mins and go to offline mode	01:07
timeless	to be save, make sure your device is not muted at step 0 and that the alarm volume is fairly audible :)	01:08
timeless	s/save/safe/	01:08
infobot	timeless meant: to be safe, make sure your device is not muted at step 0 and that the alarm volume is fairly audible :)	01:08
Stskeeps	whoever made the alarm mode be so far down in the structure should be shot..	01:08
*** k-s has joined #maemo		01:08
timeless	sts: shrug, most of those people were probably contractors	01:09
*** housetier has quit IRC		01:09
timeless	who have probably left for other projects	01:09
lardman	lcuk: talking about the Pandora?	01:09
*** housetier has joined #maemo		01:09
* lardman wonders how to stop docs from being built...		01:09
* timeless has no idea how to set an alarm		01:09
* timeless presumes it's possible		01:09
lcuk	to you lardman i asked about the screenshot you posted, to gen yeah i was	01:09
Stskeeps	lardman: what are ya building?	01:09
lardman	Stskeeps: building fltk atm	01:10
Stskeeps	ah	01:10
lardman	deps for giac/xcas and Qalculate	01:10
lardman	fltk is for the former	01:10
lardman	lcuk: screenie is the contents of the powervr sdk, I don't think pandora is anywhere near the Nokia in terms of what's in it - it was just supposed to be available 6months+ in advance	01:12
lcuk	yeah	01:12
lardman	not sure that will happen mind you	01:12
lcuk	it will come out in the wash	01:12
lcuk	you ready for xmas yet or not thought about it yet	01:13
lardman	pretty much ready	01:13
lardman	bought lots of stuff	01:13
lcuk	im off from xmas eve to jan5	01:13
lardman	etc	01:13
lardman	same here I think	01:13
* lcuk couldv done with a whole month :)		01:13
lardman	lol	01:13
* Stskeeps ponders how much he'll get done in xmas		01:13
jagernot	will esound api be there in the new maemo 5 platform?	01:14
lcuk	everyones been poorly round here so its been extra work pollin together	01:14
Stskeeps	jagernot: there's pulseaudio instead, but esound compat	01:14
jagernot	esound compatible means?	01:14
*** Rhoruns- has joined #maemo		01:14
lcuk	jagernot, theres lots of shiny in the new device to play with	01:14
Stskeeps	jagernot: means api compatible	01:14
lcuk	i wonder if i could strap a pair to my eyes and have real 3d	01:15
jagernot	so i just recompile and it works right?	01:15
lcuk	or just use a barrier	01:15
lardman	jagernot: http://repository.maemo.org/unstable/fremantle/maemo4.1.1_vs_5.0prealpha_content_comparison.html	01:15
lcuk	holy poo, the accel will allow that to be real	01:15
lcuk	:D headaches here we come	01:15
lcuk	:D	01:15
lardman	aargh, another error in the rules file, need to recompile again!	01:16
*** denny has quit IRC		01:16
timeless	ok, true or false:	01:16
timeless	Maemo launcher launches all applications on the maemo platform.	01:16
Stskeeps	"most"	01:16
timeless	that'd be "false"	01:16
timeless	thanks	01:16
Stskeeps	more apps should use it, though	01:17
lardman	a Baysian Boolean then?	01:17
jagernot	please forgive my stupidity .... do i then assume that i just recompile boxar which uses esound and it works?	01:17
Stskeeps	jagernot: probably yeah	01:17
*** jakemaheu has quit IRC		01:17
timeless	if i'm asking a question, i usually want a correct English answer	01:17
lcuk	if not you would change it a bit	01:17
timeless	although sometimes i do want a mathematically correct answer	01:17
jagernot	timeless i agree with you ;)	01:17
lardman	I know ;)	01:17
lcuk	jagernot, there will be some kind of sound interface :)	01:17
lcuk	dont fret	01:17
jagernot	well yet another bloatware crap	01:18
jagernot	good enough to play .mp3s	01:18
jagernot	thats all anybody wants for audio nowadays	01:18
lardman	playbin?	01:18
jagernot	pulseaudio my foot	01:18
timeless	i want a pony!	01:18
timeless	oh, and a get well soon pill	01:18
timeless	(a card would be ok, but nowhere near as good)	01:18
*** ssvb has quit IRC		01:18
lcuk	well you are not everyone and your audio is groundbreaking for this platform :) so i for one hope theres a decent audio interface for you	01:18
lcuk	:D do more with it	01:19
Stskeeps	yeah, we need something that'll use the FM transmitter. and the one that sends audio straight inside our skulls	01:19
Stskeeps	:P	01:19
lcuk	or to the car sterio	01:19
lcuk	stereo	01:19
lcuk	evne	01:19
lcuk	fffsfklnsdawe grios	01:19
* lcuk has a ministroke		01:19
* Stskeeps thinks he's going to sleep		01:19
Stskeeps	and trying to get to work in the morning	01:19
*** JussiP has quit IRC		01:19
Stskeeps	got to rewrite the mer imager i made for the d945gclf2 board to be inside the imager framework	01:20
lcuk	gnite Stskeeps :)	01:20
* ShadowJK has a d945gclf2		01:22
lardman	aargh, why does it keep running dh_installdocs ?!?!?	01:22
lardman	night Stskeeps	01:22
*** StsN800 has joined #maemo		01:23
*** fab__ has quit IRC		01:23
* timeless wodners how safe it is to use apt from outside a debian world		01:23
GeneralAntilles	Why does everybody think the OMAP3 is way more power hungry?	01:24
timeless	it has more transitors, right? :)	01:24
*** greentux has quit IRC		01:24
GeneralAntilles	It gives you 2-3x the performance for the same power requirements as the OMAP2	01:24
GeneralAntilles	Which means you're done and idling 2-3x faster than on OMAP2	01:25
GeneralAntilles	s/faster/sooner/	01:25
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: Which means you're done and idling 2-3x sooner than on OMAP2	01:25
jagernot	is early access to omap3 tablet possible?	01:27
*** jpuderer has quit IRC		01:27
timeless	ask qgil :)	01:27
GeneralAntilles	jagernot, Nokia has plans for a dev program.	01:27
GeneralAntilles	But that's likely to be a lot closer to release.	01:28
jagernot	have to pay to get in or just show ur app and hope?	01:28
GeneralAntilles	jagernot, if you're just interested in playing with OMAP3, a Pandora or Beagle Board is a reasonable choice in the interim.	01:28
GeneralAntilles	jagernot, there aren't any details yet.	01:28
lcuk	jagernot, for all we know nokia might do a massive -dev program drop from an aeroplane at 30k	01:29
jagernot	maybe somewhere in yorkshire? :D	01:29
jagernot	flooded	01:30
lcuk	yeah "SOS"	01:30
lcuk	* RX51: added parachute	01:30
jagernot	i think playing with the tablet is important to pandora/beagleboard as its the distribution that comes along that determines what we can do	01:31
jagernot	i mean very few of us code in asm anymore	01:32
*** ^Tux^ has joined #maemo		01:32
ignacius	does anybody know if X version of maemo5 supports multitouch interfaces?	01:32
lcuk	o.O maemo4 supports multitouch :P (YMMV)	01:32
jagernot	yeah multitouch like kaoss pad	01:33
jagernot	try boxar and see ignacius ;)	01:33
solca	too bad new nokia kernel doesnt compile for omap24xx	01:33
ignacius	will look	01:33
lardman	jagernot: still no ideas when Pandora will ship mind you	01:33
GeneralAntilles	ignacius, Maemo is moving to Xorg, so, yes.	01:34
GeneralAntilles	There's no hardware support yet, though.	01:34
*** matt_c has quit IRC		01:34
GeneralAntilles	(not really, despite whatever evil voodoo lcuk may try to sell you :P)	01:34
ignacius	great	01:34
* lcuk laughs evily		01:35
jagernot	so that means multitouch is not supported then doesnt it	01:35
*** phsiao has quit IRC		01:35
* GeneralAntilles tries to plant another wooden stake through lcuk's heart.		01:35
GeneralAntilles	jagernot, not by the touchscreen technology used, though.	01:35
GeneralAntilles	boxar might possibly benefit from lcuk's evil, though.	01:36
timeless	s/ere/er/	01:36
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, :) we are talking often, theres a lot of scope for audiovisual goodness in this platform	01:37
StsN800	http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081208-broadcom-squeezes-11n-bluetooth-fm-into-new-cheap-chip.html , this one mentioned in kernel diff?	01:38
GeneralAntilles	802.11n, though?	01:40
GeneralAntilles	Haven't we already got a wifi chipset? wl12xx	01:40
StsN800	true	01:41
StsN800	nm	01:41
*** herzi has joined #maemo		01:41
GeneralAntilles	Could be another combo chip maybe	01:41
GeneralAntilles	Ehehe	01:41
GeneralAntilles	Fremantles new audio pipeline is FM transmitter -> FM receiver -> speakers. :P	01:41
derf	...	01:42
jagernot	oh dear	01:43
jagernot	that is not a pipeline..that is more like the queue at a busy ticket counter :(	01:44
derf	And they're all out of tickets.	01:44
lcuk	and the counter closed 10 minutes ago	01:44
jagernot	somebody ought to tell nokia that design for performance	01:45
jagernot	and keep as few middlemen apis as possible	01:45
lcuk	i think you will find thats not the normal path ;)	01:45
derf	I assumed it was a hoke.	01:45
lcuk	unless its to a set of headphones..	01:45
jagernot	s/h/j ?	01:45
derf	jagernot: If you insist.	01:46
jagernot	s/h/bl ?	01:46
timeless	jagernot: you need to pay attn to the smilies :)	01:46
jagernot	all i want to know is there any synth written with pulseaudio?	01:47
jagernot	or gstreamer	01:47
jagernot	i searched the whole wide internut and couldnt find any	01:47
jagernot	all i see are media players and recorder apps	01:47
jagernot	i truly love esound	01:48
jagernot	2 lines to setup the audio	01:48
jagernot	and i could be making sounds	01:48
jagernot	oh dear lord, dont kill esound on the tablets	01:49
* lcuk hands jagernot the tissues		01:50
jagernot	for some weird reason esound doesnt read the mic :(	01:50
jagernot	completely crashes my tablet	01:51
*** myosound_ has joined #maemo		01:51
GeneralAntilles	ESD is crap	01:51
GeneralAntilles	PulseAudio is a much better direction.	01:51
lardman	they've probably not wrapped that part - it all has to go though the DSP	01:51
lcuk	jagernot, you can use many libraries, you have the motivation to find them	01:51
lcuk	and once you do you can wrap it in a similar 2 line interface and carry on being happy	01:51
jagernot	general: have you written any app using ESD. what do you know about it? huh?	01:52
jagernot	general: have you written any app at all?	01:52
lcuk	gnite folks	01:52
lardman	night lcuk	01:52
jagernot	night lcuk	01:52
GeneralAntilles	jagernot, your words cut deep	01:54
jagernot	general: you havent answered my question :D	01:54
*** eichi_ has quit IRC		01:54
* timeless grumbles		01:54
* lardman does too		01:55
timeless	you aren't trying to build debian core tools on a non debian platform too, are you?	01:55
lardman	no, trying to debug bloody C++ code/compiler errors	01:56
lardman	~curse C++	01:56
infobot	May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, C++ !	01:56
timeless	i'll trade	01:56
lardman	:)	01:56
timeless	yours sounds much easier	01:56
lardman	yeah, just time consuming	01:56
lardman	anyway, time to hit the sack, night all	01:56
*** lardman has quit IRC		01:57
timeless	oh wow	01:58
timeless	dpkg runs!	01:58
* timeless frowns		01:59
timeless	so why did apt fail	01:59
timeless	anyone wanna explain why apt failed to me :)	01:59
*** Johannes__ has quit IRC		02:04
* timeless sighs		02:06
timeless	vpn's can be really poorly implemented	02:06
*** florian has quit IRC		02:06
timeless	sure, ti'd be a great idea to automatically pop up a dialog which steals keyboard focus when the session is about to expire	02:06
timeless	after all, the user definitely wants to enter random letters into the password field	02:07
GeneralAntilles	Otherwise you might forget that it expired. Then what?!	02:09
*** pvanhoof has quit IRC		02:13
*** Pyrhos has quit IRC		02:14
*** jakemaheu has joined #maemo		02:16
*** hellwolf has quit IRC		02:21
*** lbt has quit IRC		02:22
timeless	woohoo	02:24
timeless	apt-get now kinda works	02:25
* timeless wonders if this system is usable		02:25
*** sin18 has joined #maemo		02:31
sin18	on n800 (diablo) i can bring up the virtual kbd for easy debian (using set debian hw keys) but how can i turn it off (hide) after i am done.	02:36
*** pcfe has quit IRC		02:37
*** pcfe has joined #maemo		02:39
*** corq-FL has quit IRC		02:39
*** corq-FL has joined #maemo		02:39
l7	["dd if=$USER of=/dev/bed" is a rather funny quit message :)	02:39
*** pcfe has quit IRC		02:40
*** croppa has joined #maemo		02:49
*** corq has joined #maemo		02:58
*** z4chh has joined #maemo		02:59
z4chh	i installed hello-world-app version 0.7....i can't seem to find the source for it, the latest i can find is 0.4	03:00
z4chh	this is my favorite app in the world, and i must see the source >:'(!!	03:01
lcuk	z4chh, you are welcome to look at my hello world app :) source and all http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/liqbase/	03:02
z4chh	lcuk, that is to complicated for me probably ;p	03:02
z4chh	why do you think id even bother looking a hello world source	03:02
z4chh	at*	03:02
z4chh	but thanks :D	03:03
lcuk	most certainly, but look anyway. i dont know where a helloworld is - there was one in my vmware image but i dunno what version it was or anythin	03:03
z4chh	btw ive had liqbase for awhile now, great software, good job	03:04
*** lcuk has quit IRC		03:06
*** Sargun has quit IRC		03:06
*** ignacius has quit IRC		03:12
*** aloisiojr has quit IRC		03:12
pupnik	jagernot: what kind of synth would be fun to use -	03:12
*** corq has quit IRC		03:12
*** corq-FL has quit IRC		03:13
*** jacques has joined #maemo		03:14
*** harry has joined #maemo		03:16
*** harry is now known as Guest49000		03:17
jagernot	pupnik: i dont know what do you like?	03:18
pupnik	Tb-303 forever :P	03:19
pupnik	a touchscreen ARP-2600 simulator would be great also	03:19
pupnik	for making R2D2 sounds	03:19
jagernot	im dont know many synths; din/boxar is my first sound project so..	03:20
*** corq-FL has joined #maemo		03:23
*** corq-FL has left #maemo		03:24
timeless	ok	03:26
timeless	i think i can do debian stuff w/o debian	03:26
* timeless is happy		03:26
*** profoX` has joined #maemo		03:27
*** profoX` has quit IRC		03:29
*** aloisiojr has joined #maemo		03:29
*** jakemaheu has quit IRC		03:31
*** chmac has joined #maemo		03:31
*** jagernot has quit IRC		03:32
*** Guest49000 is now known as kcome		03:33
*** _gregorovius has joined #maemo		03:35
*** febb has joined #maemo		03:37
*** febb has quit IRC		03:37
*** ^Tux^ has quit IRC		03:39
*** TokyoDan has quit IRC		03:41
*** corq-FL has joined #maemo		03:44
*** benh has joined #maemo		03:45
z4chh	i think maemo needs more sample source code for programming applications >.<	03:47
*** corq-FL has quit IRC		03:50
*** pcfe has joined #maemo		03:50
GeneralAntilles	z4chh, um?	03:52
GeneralAntilles	http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/diablo/free/source/	03:52
*** lcuk has joined #maemo		03:54
GeneralAntilles	Go way	03:54
z4chh	GeneralAntilles, actually i was refering to this https://garage.maemo.org/snippet/	03:56
GeneralAntilles	z4chh, meh, that's just an unused feature of gforge	03:57
GeneralAntilles	doesn't actually have much to do with Maemo	03:57
GeneralAntilles	There's plenty of example code available in the documentation	03:57
GeneralAntilles	and more if you start looking in the repositories	03:57
z4chh	why keep it then? >.<	03:57
GeneralAntilles	In case somebody wants to use it.	03:58
z4chh	haha	03:58
GeneralAntilles	Just because nobody currently uses it doesn't mean nobody ever will.	03:58
z4chh	"that's just an unused feature of gforge" contradicting yourself? :P	03:59
GeneralAntilles	No	03:59
GeneralAntilles	It's currently unused, but that may not always be the case	04:00
*** vs93taras has joined #maemo		04:00
GeneralAntilles	there's no harm in leaving it there if somebody wants to start using it.	04:00
z4chh	anyways ill search through that source directory...thanks for the link	04:00
*** x29a_ has joined #maemo		04:00
GeneralAntilles	The MO for corporate support email seems to be "ignore questions we don't understand, then pretend that we care after they bitch about not receiving a reply 2 weeks later"	04:01
derf	They only ignore questions they _don't_ understand?	04:05
*** TrueJournals has joined #maemo		04:06
GeneralAntilles	Fair enough	04:07
*** housetier has quit IRC		04:08
derf	I mean, really, it's a crappy job where the employees want to do just enough not to get fired.	04:09
*** x29a has quit IRC		04:16
*** benh has quit IRC		04:17
solca	hey GeneralAntilles, it seems you just sleep like 2 hours a day, incredible performance!	04:20
*** tulkastaldo has quit IRC		04:23
*** k-s is now known as k-s[AWAY]		04:32
*** zap has quit IRC		04:34
*** metatron has joined #maemo		04:39
*** metatron is now known as Luria_		04:40
*** inherite- has joined #maemo		04:42
*** Pebby has quit IRC		04:44
*** inherited has quit IRC		04:47
*** inherite- is now known as inherited		04:47
*** trickie has quit IRC		04:51
*** trickie has joined #maemo		04:51
*** benh has joined #maemo		04:53
*** TrueJournals has quit IRC		04:53
*** yerga has quit IRC		04:55
*** datachaos has quit IRC		05:04
*** gentooer has joined #maemo		05:05
GeneralAntilles	Not looking good for better color performance in the N900: MAEMO SPECIFIC: MADE clutter-texture ALWAYS USE 16 BIT	05:06
*** yerga has joined #maemo		05:07
*** WolfSage is now known as Wolfy		05:10
*** Wolfy is now known as WolfSage		05:10
*** zakkm has joined #maemo		05:11
zakkm	Heard on engadget, the Fremantle SDK is out?	05:11
zakkm	does that mean much on a user end?	05:11
GeneralAntilles	No.	05:11
zakkm	i know sdk is developers kit	05:11
zakkm	but yeah	05:11
*** acydlord has joined #maemo		05:12
zakkm	so was it as good as people hoped?	05:12
*** _gregorovius has quit IRC		05:13
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, thats a good thing :)	05:15
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, well, it means gradients will still be upgly as hell.	05:22
nikosapi	do you guys have any idea why the tutorial for booting off an SD card has you create a 480MB vfat partition on the card?	05:26
GAN800	But, yes, fewer colors to push around means less overhead	05:27
GAN800	~boot-sd	05:27
infobot	hmm... boot-sd is https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card	05:27
GAN800	That one?	05:27
nikosapi	yup	05:27
nikosapi	specifically: https://wiki.maemo.org/Partitioning_a_flash_card	05:28
*** _acyd_ has quit IRC		05:28
GAN800	Well, you'll at least want space for swap	05:28
*** pcfe has quit IRC		05:28
*** Gracana has joined #maemo		05:28
GAN800	It's really only an example, though, so set it to whatever works for you.	05:29
*** _acyd_ has joined #maemo		05:29
nikosapi	sure but not 480MB of swap... and couldn't I just create a swap file in the ext2 parition?	05:29
nikosapi	ah	05:29
*** myosound_ has quit IRC		05:29
nikosapi	so there's no real reason	05:29
GAN800	You can, but not from the UI	05:30
GAN800	and most people are likely to still want to store stuff on the card from Windows machines	05:30
*** rouex has joined #maemo		05:30
nikosapi	iirc the UI creates the swap image on the internal flash	05:30
GeneralAntilles	nikosapi, more accurately, mmc2	05:31
GeneralAntilles	which is NOT an ext2 partition	05:31
nikosapi	yep, but which is the internal flash on the n810	05:31
GeneralAntilles	No, it's not.	05:31
nikosapi	yes it is :P	05:31
GeneralAntilles	It's a FAT partition on mmcblk0p1	05:31
nikosapi	yes	05:32
*** bipolar_ is now known as bipolar		05:32
nikosapi	which cannot be removed	05:32
GeneralAntilles	Which is definitely not the same thing as "internal flash"	05:32
nikosapi	oh sorry	05:32
derf	Speak for yourself.	05:32
derf	I removed it.	05:32
GeneralAntilles	If mmcblk0p1 is ext2, then you can't create swap from the UI. :)	05:32
nikosapi	haha	05:32
derf	And I have swap working just fine.	05:32
derf	Created from the UI.	05:33
GeneralAntilles	derf, not without rearranging the automounting.	05:33
GeneralAntilles	Since it wont mount an ext* partition on mmc2 by default	05:33
derf	Well, yeah, of course you fix /etc/fstab.	05:34
GeneralAntilles	All of these things are possible, they're just too complicated to explain to people who just want to get the job done, and don't want to futz around for an extra 30 minutes for no advantage.	05:34
nikosapi	ok, well thanks for the info :)	05:34
derf	I mean, if you've used Unix at all, you know how to do these things.	05:35
GeneralAntilles	derf, obviously.	05:35
GeneralAntilles	The people going to the wikipedia on partitioning a flash card are not those folks.	05:35
*** acydlord has quit IRC		05:35
derf	They probably actually want FAT, though.	05:35
*** acydlord has joined #maemo		05:35
GeneralAntilles	s/wikipedia/the wiki/	05:35
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: The people going to the the wiki on partitioning a flash card are not those folks.	05:35
GeneralAntilles	derf, which is why the example has them set up a FAT partition.	05:35
nikosapi	GeneralAntilles: I really hope you're not refering to me :P	05:36
GeneralAntilles	Now we're back exactly where we started	05:36
GeneralAntilles	nikosapi, I'm referring to the average use-case for that page.	05:36
derf	I was just objecting to you two telling me I couldn't do two things I've done.	05:36
GeneralAntilles	derf, nobody told YOU anything. <_<	05:36
derf	Oh, well fine.	05:36
* derf packs up the toys and goes home.		05:37
nikosapi	hah, so derf is the memory that's mounted on /media/mmc2 on the n810 actually removable, or was a soldering iron required?	05:38
derf	nikosapi: I just removed the partition.	05:38
nikosapi	d'oh	05:38
*** pcfe has joined #maemo		05:39
nikosapi	I was speaking of physically being able to remove the memory	05:39
derf	That probably would involve a soldering iron.	05:39
nikosapi	that's what I thought	05:39
derf	But I never actually checked.	05:39
nikosapi	well, at least I now have a rescue SD card in case I bork my n810 again \O/	05:40
*** gentooer has quit IRC		05:44
*** vs93taras has quit IRC		05:47
*** straind has joined #maemo		05:49
*** Mousey has quit IRC		05:52
*** _acyd_ has quit IRC		05:52
*** jacques has quit IRC		06:05
*** x29a_ is now known as x29a		06:05
*** WolfSage is now known as Wolfy[Wee]		06:09
*** Wolfy[Wee] is now known as WolfSage		06:09
*** bipolar has quit IRC		06:12
*** bipolar has joined #maemo		06:12
*** acydlord has quit IRC		06:13
*** acydlord has joined #maemo		06:14
*** ciroip has joined #maemo		06:22
*** Luria_ has quit IRC		06:26
*** chmac has quit IRC		06:32
*** Luria_ has joined #maemo		06:32
*** vs93taras has joined #maemo		06:37
*** sin18 has quit IRC		06:40
*** zhaozhou has joined #maemo		06:44
timely	z4chh: i'd plug mxr.maemo.org/garage/find	07:03
timely	there's lots of code to read	07:03
timely	(there's actually more, but i haven't pushed to garage in a while)	07:03
*** Gary has quit IRC		07:10
*** Gary has joined #maemo		07:10
*** `0660 has quit IRC		07:14
*** `0660 has joined #maemo		07:14
*** vs93taras has quit IRC		07:31
*** rlinfati has joined #maemo		07:31
*** ttmrichter has joined #maemo		07:33
*** _albania has joined #maemo		07:34
*** _acyd_ has joined #maemo		07:36
*** _albania has left #maemo		07:38
*** dforsyth_ has joined #maemo		07:45
*** bboy1 has joined #maemo		07:46
*** ukatan has joined #maemo		07:46
*** _acyd_ has quit IRC		07:47
*** _acyd_ has joined #maemo		07:48
*** dforsyth_ has quit IRC		07:51
*** dforsyth_ has joined #maemo		07:51
*** dforsyth has quit IRC		07:51
*** dforsyth_ has quit IRC		07:51
*** dforsyth has joined #maemo		07:51
*** acydlord has quit IRC		07:52
derf	So, claws-mail seems to actually work. But it is _astoundingly_ slow at opening a folder with new mail in it.	07:52
derf	A folder with 21k messages and no new mail, no problem.	07:52
derf	But 8k messages, 1 new, and it takes minutes to open.	07:53
*** Meiz_n810 has quit IRC		08:05
Proteous	MINUTES!!!	08:06
Proteous	WE DON'T HAVE MINUTES TO SPARE	08:06
derf	Several minutes to open a folder to check one mail message is pretty unusable.	08:08
derf	I think the actual problem is that when it checked for new mail, it filled up all my RAM and is now swapping like mad.	08:09
*** Knowledge has quit IRC		08:09
*** rouex has quit IRC		08:10
*** Kl0r has joined #maemo		08:11
*** Sargun has joined #maemo		08:11
Proteous	yeah	08:11
Proteous	I'm just having fun with caps lock	08:12
Proteous	don't mind me	08:12
*** melmoth has joined #maemo		08:13
*** bboy1 has quit IRC		08:18
*** Luria_ has quit IRC		08:25
*** Luria_ has joined #maemo		08:25
*** rlinfati has quit IRC		08:26
*** rlinfati has joined #maemo		08:27
derf	So, ultimately a failed experiment.	08:29
derf	Once again, a problem that would be completely solved if the tablet had about twice as much RAM as it does.	08:30
Kl0r	rams enough, what pisses you off the most is inability to use the 3dchip	08:31
derf	Where by "you" you mean not me?	08:31
derf	The RAM is really not enough.	08:32
derf	When I can't open two browser windows because the "Operation has been temporarily disabled due to low memory", you don't have enough RAM.	08:32
*** Meiz_n810 has joined #maemo		08:33
pupnik	if I were dictator, i'd put half the web codemonkeys in work camps designing sites for 80286 PCs	08:34
`0660	derf, stop using myspace :)	08:35
pupnik	i found a nice compound for them too	08:35
*** rlinfati has quit IRC		08:41
derf	It doesn't take some crappy Web 7.0 social networking site. A plain page with a big image background is enough.	08:41
*** rlinfati has joined #maemo		08:41
Kl0r	i should buy a blutooth keyb , xchat works fine in diablo, but typing is a bit of a pain	08:43
*** ciroip has quit IRC		08:43
*** rlinfati has quit IRC		08:45
*** lpotter has quit IRC		08:47
pupnik	derf, i have to agree. the primary target, "internet tablet" really requires more mem	08:48
pupnik	too bad mem eats power. would be nice if one could power up/down banks as needed.	08:48
pupnik	but you probably know more about this than i - any idea of what % of power the N8x0 memory eats, vs various cpu states?	08:49
*** Luria_ has quit IRC		08:51
*** geaaru has joined #maemo		08:54
*** zakkm has left #maemo		08:55
Proteous	turn on VM	08:55
Proteous	increas the browser cache	08:55
*** benh has quit IRC		08:56
Proteous	there is also a nice thread on internettablettalk about some browser settings that help	08:56
*** rlinfati has joined #maemo		08:56
*** TokyoDan has joined #maemo		09:05
*** ukatan has quit IRC		09:05
*** Dar has joined #maemo		09:19
*** aloisiojr has quit IRC		09:21
*** vivijim has quit IRC		09:21
*** Kl0r has quit IRC		09:24
*** eocanha has joined #maemo		09:27
*** benh has joined #maemo		09:35
*** qwerty12 has joined #maemo		09:35
*** rmoravcik has joined #maemo		09:36
*** rmoravcik has joined #maemo		09:37
*** rmoravcik has quit IRC		09:37
*** rmoravcik has joined #maemo		09:37
*** vincenzo has joined #maemo		09:37
vincenzo	Hello all	09:38
Mikho	is there any way to pass command line arguments to a program from a .desktop file?	09:39
*** juergbi has joined #maemo		09:39
Mikho	there's an Exec field alright, but it doesn't seem to work	09:40
*** tmielika has quit IRC		09:40
*** tekojo has joined #maemo		09:40
Mikho	the program only gets what I type in the corresponding .service file	09:40
*** tmielika has joined #maemo		09:40
tekojo	Morning all!	09:41
*** avs has joined #maemo		09:41
Mikho	actually, maemo seems to ignore the contents of the Exec field in the .desktop file	09:42
vincenzo	Mikho: You only want to start your program by a button ?	09:42
Mikho	yes, mostly	09:43
vincenzo	I had the same problem yesterday, 1 sec	09:44
vincenzo	Try to remove the .service file and remove the dbus-related line from .desktop file	09:44
*** zommi has joined #maemo		09:45
Mikho	well, actually I want the program also to start upon received dbus messages	09:45
Mikho	but there are some messages I'd like it to ignore	09:45
vincenzo	So i don't know, i'm a newbie :(	09:46
Mikho	np	09:47
Mikho	ooh, got it	09:49
Mikho	if the X-Osso-Service field is defined in the .desktop file, the Exec field will be ignored	09:50
Mikho	instead the service file is used	09:50
vincenzo	Thanks for the info :)	09:50
Mikho	so, if I remove X-Osso-Service field and leave the .service file alone, I can have different arguments for each way the program is started	09:51
*** Meiz_n810 has quit IRC		09:52
*** monkeyiq has joined #maemo		09:53
Mikho	the tutorials don't explain these things wery well	09:53
*** greentux has joined #maemo		09:53
vincenzo	Yes i have lost 5h to start my application with a desktop button :(	09:54
Mikho	argh, there's a flaw	09:55
Mikho	if I remove X-Osso-Service, it won't check whether the program is running already	09:55
Mikho	So I'll get 5 daemons in the background for 5 clicks on the button	09:56
vincenzo	Hmmm	09:57
vincenzo	May be this link can help you... : http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Maemo:_Hildonizing_application_UI	09:58
*** rmoravcik has joined #maemo		09:58
*** Meiz_n810 has joined #maemo		10:02
*** sergio has joined #maemo		10:02
Meiz_n810	Wlan still not working :( wlan-cal says: size zero, block not found... +yesterdays pastebin	10:03
Meiz_n810	(in Mer)	10:03
*** qwerty12 has quit IRC		10:03
StsN800	yes, i'll look at o	10:07
StsN800	it..	10:07
*** bergie has joined #maemo		10:12
*** fie has quit IRC		10:15
*** fie has joined #maemo		10:16
*** richieeee72 has joined #maemo		10:17
*** richieeee72 has left #maemo		10:18
*** eichi_ has joined #maemo		10:19
*** sergio_ has joined #maemo		10:21
*** sergio has quit IRC		10:21
*** lpotter has joined #maemo		10:21
*** ceyusa has joined #maemo		10:24
*** dforsyth_ has joined #maemo		10:27
*** Meiz_n810 has quit IRC		10:31
*** lbt has joined #maemo		10:32
*** StsN801 has joined #maemo		10:33
StsN801	morn	10:37
*** sergio_ has quit IRC		10:39
*** dougt has quit IRC		10:39
*** chelli has joined #maemo		10:41
*** kleist has joined #maemo		10:43
*** dforsyth has quit IRC		10:43
*** StsN800 has quit IRC		10:45
*** ijon_ has quit IRC		10:47
*** ijon_ has joined #maemo		10:48
*** fab has joined #maemo		10:48
*** x29a has quit IRC		10:50
*** pvanhoof has joined #maemo		10:52
*** monkeyiq has quit IRC		10:55
Mikho	gahh, this is annoying. Eclipse runs out of memory twice an hour	10:58
RST38h	Mikho: Should I tell you how to solve it or do you know it already?	10:58
Mikho	emacs?	11:00
RST38h	close, yes	11:01
RST38h	Start by removing Eclipse.	11:01
Mikho	but, then how can I create code with an useful error parsing feature?	11:02
RST38h	By hand?	11:03
RST38h	Oh, you mean you want a list of errors on which you can click... Try Geany	11:03
mavhc	stop trying to run eclipse on an n810	11:04
RST38h	mavhc: "on an n810" was unnecessary in that statement	11:05
*** kontio has joined #maemo		11:06
Mikho	well, I'd be happy if it just remained stable for at least 2 hours	11:07
RST38h	Mikho: Eclipse will not.	11:07
*** dougt has joined #maemo		11:08
*** _berto_ has joined #maemo		11:08
RST38h	More eyecandy: http://docent.msk.ru/lj/mosfilm/th_mosfilm_pano_3.jpg	11:08
mavhc	just buy another 4GB of ram, it's cheap these days	11:10
*** Pyrhos has joined #maemo		11:12
*** AStorm has joined #maemo		11:15
AStorm	hello	11:16
AStorm	is there a n8x0 build of firefox 3.1b2 available?	11:16
AStorm	(no, not fennec)	11:16
RST38h	moo, astorm	11:16
AStorm	moo?	11:17
AStorm	so, do we have one?	11:17
*** murrayc has joined #maemo		11:17
*** chelli has quit IRC		11:18
*** StsN801 has quit IRC		11:18
Stskeeps	AStorm: don't think so. maybe on debian	11:18
AStorm	hmm	11:18
AStorm	could someone build it for us?	11:19
AStorm	possibly using already existent xulrunner... but that's not necessary	11:19
RST38h	But why? It will be pretty large / slow	11:20
AStorm	definitely not slow	11:20
AStorm	and not larger than fennec	11:20
AStorm	(smaller actually)	11:20
RST38h	heh	11:21
AStorm	ui will need slight tweaks, yup	11:21
*** bilboed-pi has joined #maemo		11:21
AStorm	nothing a fairly simple extension can't handle	11:21
AStorm	(clickzoom, click-to-scroll, selection mode)	11:22
AStorm	so, is anyone willing to build it... or give me a nice *small" ready sbox2?	11:22
AStorm	Stskeeps, do you have one?	11:23
AStorm	sbox1 is ok too, but nowhere near as nice	11:25
AStorm	I have a problem preparing it for building debs	11:26
*** hannesw has joined #maemo		11:26
Stskeeps	AStorm: not yet :P i'm planning to have one based on m-vo's post	11:29
Stskeeps	did you see his post about sb2 btw?	11:29
AStorm	no, sorry	11:29
AStorm	I'm not following ITT too closely recently	11:29
Stskeeps	oh, it's on planet maemo	11:29
Stskeeps	sec	11:29
AStorm	care to give me a link?	11:30
AStorm	ah	11:30
Stskeeps	http://mariusv.wordpress.com/2008/12/07/the-cardinal-sin-of-scratchbox-a-backhanded-stab-at-the-maemo-sdk-and-the-promise-of-a-pot-of-gold/	11:30
RST38h	SB2 is way more sensible but I am kinda tired of babysitting it	11:30
RST38h	Every new updates seems to break something	11:30
Stskeeps	i would love a mode like he describes :P	11:30
*** andre__ has quit IRC		11:32
*** andre__ has joined #maemo		11:32
*** ijon_ has quit IRC		11:33
AStorm	fennec is almost good (as of nightlies)	11:34
*** ijon_ has joined #maemo		11:34
AStorm	but its way of showing tabs and its awesome bar are... yuck	11:35
RST38h	AStorm: Why is it larger than plain ff though?	11:35
AStorm	because of full xulrunner	11:35
RST38h	Isn't it supposed to be much lighter and faster?	11:35
AStorm	while ff doesn't use whole of it	11:35
AStorm	so an optimized build of ff is smaller than xulrunner	11:35
RST38h	Ah...Can the same be done with fennec?	11:36
AStorm	also, fennec is slow due to not using gtk	11:36
AStorm	no	11:36
AStorm	fennec is a python ui to xulrunner	11:36
AStorm	:P	11:36
*** TokyoDan has quit IRC		11:36
AStorm	or something	11:36
*** AD-N770 has joined #maemo		11:37
Stskeeps	AStorm: are you kidding me? :P	11:37
RST38h	urgh	11:37
AStorm	no, it is one	11:37
X-Fade	Hi all. Just finished reading the backscroll. Good stuff ;)	11:37
AStorm	also, the "canvas" has bugs	11:37
* RST38h feels depressed now. The first mobile FF browser, and it appears to be fundamentally shitty		11:38
Stskeeps	it is a python ui to xulrunner? :P	11:38
AStorm	it is	11:38
AStorm	check fennec .deb	11:38
Stskeeps	ok, i don't mind python but for this exact purpose it's madness	11:39
pupnik	nokia is looking to transform itself into an internet service	11:39
AStorm	it's not too crummy though	11:39
pupnik	from yesterday's "FAZ" newspaper	11:39
AStorm	needs a bunch of work	11:39
RST38h	pupnik: Are mushrooms THAT good in Finalnd?	11:39
AStorm	hehehe	11:39
pupnik	the article claimed it was 'betting the farm' on it	11:39
AStorm	they suck	11:39
AStorm	their crystal ball went broken	11:40
RST38h	Providing an online extension to its own hardware a la Apple I can understand	11:40
RST38h	Astorm: BOTH their balls	11:40
Stskeeps	AStorm: can't see any python in i686 version atleast	11:40
AStorm	Stskeeps, hmm?	11:40
RST38h	Transforming itself into internet service I cannot understand	11:40
AStorm	so what did I misread?	11:40
AStorm	Stskeeps, anyway, it is an ui to xulrunner	11:41
Stskeeps	yeah, that much doesn't surprise me	11:41
AStorm	well, it is... buggy and weak	11:41
AStorm	and the sidebars are too easy to toggle	11:42
AStorm	so, I want firefox 3.1 here	11:42
AStorm	with some minor tweaking, it'll be better than microb	11:42
AStorm	thanks to gecko 1.9.1 and features	11:42
pupnik	i can see nokia deciding that margins on hardware will continue to drop with commoditization of the technology	11:43
pupnik	and that new innovations in services/features are a must-have	11:44
AStorm	new lock-ins? yuck!	11:44
pupnik	it's a way to add value to a product AStorm	11:44
AStorm	negative value in my eyes	11:45
AStorm	yes, more $$$ for Nokia, maybe	11:45
pupnik	i'd be happy if the core OS went to linux and open-source	11:46
Stskeeps	.. it is quite already out there	11:46
AStorm	:)	11:47
pupnik	on nokia phones	11:47
Stskeeps	ah	11:47
Stskeeps	yeah, ok	11:47
glass_	pupnik: what nokia is transforming into depends entirely who inside nokia you ask the question	11:47
pupnik	thanks for the correction, i should cite the source	11:48
glass_	pupnik: like, really, some nokians seem to be pretty much blindfolded	11:48
glass_	they talk trash	11:48
glass_	like saying 3 years ago that in a year maemo would be in phones	11:48
glass_	all	11:48
Stskeeps	they say that now though	11:48
Stskeeps	:P	11:48
AStorm	maemo is far too demanding in processing power :>	11:49
RST38h	they do not	11:49
RST38h	no dates named	11:49
Stskeeps	would/could	11:49
AStorm	see, they'd need better batteries	11:49
RST38h	AStorm: n8x0 hw is no different from n95 really	11:49
AStorm	to get it running and also wifi plus gprs	11:50
AStorm	RST38h, and n95 isn't known for runtime :P	11:50
glass_	n95 has ok runtime	11:50
glass_	if you don't torture the features	11:50
AStorm	anyway, ui needs a refresh	11:50
AStorm	like, less suck	11:50
AStorm	:)	11:50
RST38h	same with maemo really	11:50
Stskeeps	from seeing the new hildon widgets, it's sure getting it	11:50
glass_	n95's new firmware made it less sucky again	11:50
RST38h	Sts: screenshot?	11:51
Stskeeps	yergas posted some.. hmm	11:51
AStorm	Stskeeps, gtk improvements like fingerfriendly scrollbars by default	11:51
AStorm	less menu abuse	11:51
AStorm	and less screen space waste	11:52
Stskeeps	http://share.ovi.com/channel/yerga.Hildonwidgets	11:52
RST38h	ah!	11:52
Stskeeps	unthemed	11:52
AStorm	anyway	11:53
AStorm	touchscreens are overrated	11:53
AStorm	they're good for drawing	11:53
aquatix	and for browsing	11:54
AStorm	nah	11:54
AStorm	dpad is better	11:54
aquatix	well	11:54
aquatix	i prefer the touchscreen	11:54
aquatix	it's more direct	11:54
AStorm	like, you're obscuring what you want to read	11:55
AStorm	:>	11:55
AStorm	it's good for picking links though	11:55
aquatix	yeah, picking links, quickly scroll	11:56
aquatix	there's always an area in the page which you're not currently reading	11:56
aquatix	and the dpad i have to slide out first	11:56
aquatix	on my n810	11:56
*** hellwolf has joined #maemo		11:57
AStorm	scroll would be better with a dedicated kinetic touchpad	11:58
AStorm	not always	11:58
AStorm	meh, I should get paid for design :P	11:58
AStorm	or at least be able to design some prototypes	11:58
AStorm	for personal use	11:58
AStorm	altenative would be to have a slack space on the touchscreen (make it wider)	11:58
AStorm	like a kinetic scrollbar	11:58
AStorm	yup, that was design problem	11:58
AStorm	I'd like an up/down key with a shift to horizontal :P	11:59
AStorm	like some cellphones have	11:59
pupnik	i'd like the 'H' key to also be a trackpoint on every keyboard	11:59
AStorm	haha	11:59
AStorm	trackpoint...	11:59
AStorm	instead of dpad... good idea	12:00
AStorm	but it's patented	12:00
AStorm	:P	12:00
pupnik	give it a rubber surface, make it more sensitive than the IBM trackpoints	12:00
pupnik	wonder what the license costs	12:00
AStorm	no idea, probably high enough	12:00
Stskeeps	lardman\|gone: thanks for answering that post :P	12:00
AStorm	seeing as no other laptops have them	12:00
*** mgedmin has joined #maemo		12:01
pupnik	i'm so addicted to trackpoint	12:01
AStorm	I prefer touchscreen/touchpad	12:01
AStorm	with good software	12:01
AStorm	snap-to-button is good	12:01
*** krutt has joined #maemo		12:02
AStorm	anyway, touchscreen is ok	12:03
AStorm	but we need slack space and kinetic scrolling :)	12:03
AStorm	(and less space wasted)	12:03
AStorm	e.g. make the screen 960x480	12:04
AStorm	and insert a scroll on the right side	12:04
AStorm	a'la canola	12:05
aquatix	or have a sensitive (touchpad-like) area on the casing to the right or left of the screen	12:05
AStorm	yes	12:05
AStorm	same idea, pick the cheaper one	12:05
aquatix	now there's just metal there	12:05
aquatix	indeed	12:05
aquatix	safes you a wide scroll bar too	12:05
aquatix	btw, offtopic, but does anyone know how to fix connectivity with msn and other networks using collabora haze?	12:06
aquatix	it's installed correctly, but it complains about connection errors	12:06
AStorm	no idea	12:07
AStorm	btw, we could use a better debounce on touchscreen	12:08
RST38h	Greatly depends on the particular tuch screen	12:08
aquatix	debounce?	12:08
AStorm	and some other buttons too (fullscreen comes to mind)	12:08
RST38h	They are all different	12:09
AStorm	aquatix, clickclickclick instead of one	12:09
RST38h	Ah, forget debounce, buttons, etc	12:09
AStorm	esp. when holding	12:09
RST38h	Just protect the damn touch screen better: it is so easy to scratch or break	12:09
AStorm	or broken lines when drawing	12:09
AStorm	my screen is fine itself	12:10
AStorm	it's a driver problem	12:10
RST38h	pressure values seem to be meaningless too	12:10
AStorm	yup	12:10
AStorm	that is very hard to calibrate	12:10
AStorm	esp. whole right side gets higher values than left side :P	12:11
RST38h	Yours too?	12:11
AStorm	yup	12:12
AStorm	probably either mount problem	12:14
AStorm	or artifact of production process	12:14
*** beavis_ has quit IRC		12:14
RST38h	I would tell this to Quim or Peter and ask them to relay thecomplaints to appropriate party	12:15
*** Meiz_n810 has joined #maemo		12:16
RST38h	Touch screen pressure variations, bouncing, and slightly bent screens can and should be fixed in the production process	12:16
RST38h	These are basically hardware bugs :)	12:16
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: I changed modprobe to insmod <path>/cx3110x.ko in tablet-wireless script, wlan-cal still fails, but at least tablet no more reboots because of it	12:18
*** Wikier has joined #maemo		12:23
*** Gracana has quit IRC		12:26
aquatix	ah, i had to downgrade libpurple0 to 2.4.3 from collabora	12:26
*** andre__ has quit IRC		12:32
RST38h	No no	12:32
RST38h	do not use collabora's libpurple	12:33
*** lele has quit IRC		12:33
RST38h	AStorm,aquatix,Stskeeps: Check this out and comment: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=248059#post248059	12:33
*** florian has joined #maemo		12:34
aquatix	RST38h: well, it works now	12:36
Meiz_n810	My n810 f/s and volum buttons are good	12:37
RST38h	aquatix: but Pidgin will not	12:37
Meiz_n810	i can hear click	12:37
Meiz_n810	and they really feel pessed	12:37
* RST38h can also hear click but just barely		12:38
RST38h	No, they don't really feel pressed...	12:38
aquatix	RST38h: i don't use pidgin	12:38
Meiz_n810	In my n810 ther _really_ feel	12:38
Meiz_n810	My n810 is made at 2005 :P	12:38
aquatix	lunch!	12:39
aquatix	bbl	12:39
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: I don't have a n810 so :P	12:39
*** smyows has joined #maemo		12:39
Stskeeps	RST38h: and regarding surface.. screen protector should be a requirement :P mine is great so far :P	12:39
RST38h	Sts: Yea, I am also using screen protector	12:40
RST38h	But I think they should remove this requirement :)	12:40
*** Gracana has joined #maemo		12:40
Stskeeps	i dunno.. a proper screen protector solves a lot of the problems	12:41
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: i can't upgrade matchbox-w-m: dpkg (subprocess): unable to execute old pre-removal script: Exec format error	12:41
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: ok, that might be because you're upgrading	12:41
Stskeeps	and it's a totally different branch	12:41
RST38h	Sts: Well, HTC Diamond and its friends do not require screen protectors	12:41
RST38h	Why should we?	12:41
Meiz_n810	i have tried to remove it, then install new one, removing is the problem...	12:42
Stskeeps	yeah, cos of some oddity in old package stuff :P	12:42
Meiz_n810	k	12:42
*** L0cutus has joined #maemo		12:44
AStorm	RST38h, does it have a glare screen?	12:45
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: can you make a tar.gz of the new installer? :P	12:45
AStorm	or a more rugged like those other gps?	12:45
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: there's no new installer yet :P	12:45
AStorm	also, its screen is lower resolution	12:45
Stskeeps	havent touched it yet	12:45
Stskeeps	going to play more with it today	12:45
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: ok	12:45
RST38h	AStorm: I did not notice much glare	12:46
RST38h	But then I did not look closely	12:46
AStorm	i meant... not matt	12:46
AStorm	:>	12:46
AStorm	the most vulnerable part is the anti-glare coating	12:47
RST38h	From what I have seen, the Diamond has the same plastic for its face as for the rest of its body	12:47
AStorm	hmm	12:47
*** zap has joined #maemo		12:48
AStorm	thick protective coating eats light...	12:48
AStorm	although, good enough transparent plastic shouldn't reduce efficiency so much	12:48
*** andre__ has joined #maemo		12:49
*** eichi_ has quit IRC		12:50
*** Pyrhos has quit IRC		12:52
pupnik	re HTC Diamond, commenter "baxter" says that the ui snazz on windows mobile is "lipstick on a pig"	12:52
pupnik	:)	12:52
*** Pyrhos has joined #maemo		12:52
AStorm	exactly	12:53
AStorm	but the device is a nice design	12:53
RST38h	pupnik: it would be a nice device if not for Windows Mobile	12:54
pupnik	http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3gZn7TXtrdY ok i want one of these synths	12:56
pupnik	http://www.miniorgan.com/lib/view.php?miniorgan=51&srch=&srch_type=&sortby=&output= my first sampling keyboard	12:57
pupnik	sorry, offtopic again	12:57
*** lele has joined #maemo		12:57
AStorm	pupnik, this is old :P	12:57
AStorm	and horrible	12:57
pupnik	it's awesome!	12:58
AStorm	has one of these a long-long time ago	12:58
pupnik	so bad, it's good!	12:58
AStorm	no, horrible	12:58
pupnik	hahaha	12:58
AStorm	sid is better	12:58
pupnik	the VSS-30 was actually pretty kickass - got stolen	12:58
pupnik	ah yes sid...	12:58
pupnik	forbidden forest theme	12:58
AStorm	heck, my old SB pro opl-3 synth was better	12:59
AStorm	again, I could build a better synth too :P	12:59
AStorm	that given my meagre time and resources	13:00
*** dforsyth has joined #maemo		13:01
pupnik	mmm dual-cpu heath/zenith z-100 for sale http://ln-s.net/2YZR	13:03
*** ab has joined #maemo		13:06
*** tekojo has quit IRC		13:08
*** caio1982 has joined #maemo		13:10
*** briglia has joined #maemo		13:12
*** benh has quit IRC		13:14
*** dforsyth_ has quit IRC		13:17
*** tekojo has joined #maemo		13:23
*** frade has quit IRC		13:25
*** frade has joined #maemo		13:25
*** simon_ has joined #maemo		13:31
*** lardman\|gone is now known as lardman		13:33
lardman	morning	13:33
*** eichi_ has joined #maemo		13:34
Stskeeps	morning	13:35
*** hellwolf has quit IRC		13:37
*** housetier has joined #maemo		13:37
*** hellwolf has joined #maemo		13:37
*** pancake has joined #maemo		13:39
*** croppa_ has joined #maemo		13:47
*** croppa has quit IRC		13:49
*** dougt_ has joined #maemo		13:57
*** dougt has quit IRC		13:57
*** k-s[AWAY] has quit IRC		14:00
*** Pyrhos has quit IRC		14:00
*** Pyrhos has joined #maemo		14:00
*** mardi__ has quit IRC		14:01
lardman	Stskeeps: how's Fremantle assimilation going?	14:03
*** hannesw has quit IRC		14:08
*** mardi__ has joined #maemo		14:08
*** cyberholic has joined #maemo		14:09
*** StsN800 has joined #maemo		14:10
*** k-s has joined #maemo		14:10
cyberholic	Buenos Dias and HI everyone! oh jesus how i have been missing this chat! Hi General! Long time no seeee!	14:10
aquatix	Khertan2: you here?	14:10
cyberholic	aqua... there are two of them in here.	14:11
aquatix	yeah, noticed	14:11
aquatix	Khertan_WebIrc5: you here? :)	14:11
cyberholic	:)	14:11
StsN800	Meiz_n810, i think mer installer as you have it should work now	14:11
cyberholic	Aqua, you know the name of the latest NOKIA model? that one they popped out a few days ago....	14:12
StsN800	when installing	14:12
aquatix	cyberholic: the N97?	14:12
cyberholic	does anyone know that name?	14:12
cyberholic	thanks a lot!	14:12
* aquatix wants		14:12
aquatix	:)	14:12
cyberholic	ah, nah. not that.	14:12
cyberholic	there is an other one. on the other hand i would like to know if the n97 support the flash plugin.	14:13
cyberholic	wait. sorry. my fault. you are right... its that!	14:13
aquatix	:)	14:14
cyberholic	oh.... i just read that even the G1 supports Flash.... interesting! Anyone owns that?	14:14
pancake	cyberholic: supports flash via SD	14:15
*** andre__ has quit IRC		14:17
pancake	but you need to sign the image before	14:18
pancake	so you have to hack replace the android signatures first and you need root for this	14:19
lardman	solca: ping	14:19
StsN800	lo pancake, great job on 0xffff	14:19
* lardman wonders if there's a mailing list for Mer, or just Jaiku?		14:20
StsN800	jaiku - experiment	14:20
*** frade has quit IRC		14:20
cyberholic	oh sorry. my fault... hihi... was talking about ADOBE FLASH plugin :)	14:20
*** matt_c has joined #maemo		14:21
*** vincenzo has quit IRC		14:21
StsN800	lardman, its easier to be kept updated/update with microblogging so	14:21
lardman	yeah, I was thinking more about structure of the system	14:22
lardman	thinking about DSME actually	14:22
StsN800	but we'll have a bootstrap meeting to get things going	14:22
pancake	cyberholic: lol :)	14:23
StsN800	mm, seems like ohm will replace	14:23
lardman	unfortunate choice of name	14:23
StsN800	ohm, the media framework? ;)	14:24
*** luck^ has joined #maemo		14:24
lardman	no just difficult to search for ohm :)	14:24
lardman	what was that new media framework called?	14:24
solca	lardman: pong	14:24
*** Sho_ has joined #maemo		14:25
cyberholic	png????	14:25
cyberholic	pong i mean?	14:25
lardman	hey solca, give me a min or two	14:25
solca	lardman: ok	14:25
cyberholic	That just like the FLASH thing. You seek Flash and mean flashing the OS and not the adobe plugin. You search for PONG as system and find 3 decade old games :(	14:25
*** andre__ has joined #maemo		14:26
lardman	http://www.slideshare.net/ensonic/maemo-multimedia-framework-presentation that one, what was it called?	14:26
StsN800	its on garage i think	14:26
StsN800	ohm=open hardware manager	14:27
*** chenca has joined #maemo		14:27
lardman	yeah I know that, just trying to remember what the media framework was called	14:27
cyberholic	sts: shouldnt it be more correct english to say.... its IN the garag... lol ;)	14:27
lardman	and I was sat there, will have to dig out my notes from the talk :)	14:27
lardman	cyberholic: yes, but not in this context	14:28
lardman	ah, MIDAS	14:28
cyberholic	i know, i was just kidding :)	14:28
lardman	https://garage.maemo.org/projects/midas/	14:28
*** [pcfe] has quit IRC		14:30
lardman	aargh, can't message	14:30
lardman	bbiam, bloody irc client	14:30
*** lardman has quit IRC		14:30
*** eocanha has quit IRC		14:30
*** eichi_ has quit IRC		14:30
*** lardman has joined #maemo		14:31
*** matt_c has quit IRC		14:31
*** matt_c has joined #maemo		14:33
*** frade has joined #maemo		14:34
*** MoRpHeUz has joined #maemo		14:40
RST38h	MaemoSDK+ RC1 is out	14:41
StsN800	woo	14:41
AStorm	yay	14:42
AStorm	how large?	14:42
AStorm	(and does it work OOTB)	14:42
cyberholic	you certainly will need some hope for it to work OOTB	14:43
RST38h	Well, the last beta worked	14:44
StsN800	lardman, wrt dsme the discussion is also wether or not to have initfs	14:44
RST38h	So I expect tehe rc1 to work as well	14:44
*** geaaru has quit IRC		14:44
*** cyberholic has quit IRC		14:44
lardman	StsN800: yeah, I was just wondering what the current thoughts were	14:45
lardman	StsN800: would it be worth having a mailing list for this, so people can comment, etc,?	14:45
StsN800	and what place dsm like daemon has in ohm world	14:45
StsN800	yeah.. we will have it when we decide on overall structure	14:46
RST38h	Ford is seeking to sell Volvo to a Changan Automobile Company (China)	14:46
RST38h	Here go your Volvos =)	14:46
StsN800	bsd.tspre.org?	14:46
StsN800	er	14:46
StsN800	bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/mer.txt is a very raw project structure sketch, lardman	14:47
*** Meiz_n810 has quit IRC		14:47
lardman	thanks	14:48
lardman	do you have a link to the hal plugin for battery stuff?	14:48
StsN800	well some misunderstood what i said.. hald-addon-bme is downloadable on the model-locked updates repo	14:49
lardman	ah I see	14:49
*** eichi_ has joined #maemo		14:49
lardman	that's fine	14:50
StsN800	bme	14:50
StsN800	isnt yet	14:50
lardman	yeah I know	14:50
lardman	nor will it be	14:50
*** k-s is now known as k-s[AWAY]		14:50
lardman	ah, downloadable you mean?	14:50
StsN800	yeah	14:50
lardman	well it's on device anyway	14:50
StsN800	it might eventually be redistributable	14:50
*** vincenzo has joined #maemo		14:51
lardman	indeed I'm sure it will be	14:51
StsN800	but its up to us to figure whats needed	14:51
lardman	yep	14:51
*** setanta has joined #maemo		14:52
*** hannesw has joined #maemo		14:54
StsN800	i'm personally for initfs, with a simple dsm daemon. with kexec/bootmenu and reboot loop prevention	14:54
StsN800	and rescue possibilities	14:55
lardman	yes	14:55
*** blade_runner has joined #maemo		14:56
lardman	presumably using kexec to boot a different kernel to the one in the initfs?	14:56
StsN800	yeah, solcas looking at that	14:56
StsN800	and suceeded already	14:57
lardman	:)	14:58
StsN800	booting diablo kernel with 2.6.28	14:58
lardman	I'll have to learn about the debuildroot stuff and get setup	14:58
lardman	cool :)	14:58
*** Ryback_ has joined #maemo		15:03
*** hellwolf has quit IRC		15:03
StsN800	right now its really just devel on i386 and send compile on armel builder	15:04
lardman	yeah, well Debian building is still pretty odd for me	15:04
lardman	single packages are ok, builders I'll need to work out how to setup, etc,.	15:04
StsN800	sb2 sdk should be in reach too	15:04
*** ceyusa has quit IRC		15:05
*** mib_w94tk2 has joined #maemo		15:05
StsN800	my builder setup is largely self built atm:P	15:06
lardman	:)	15:06
lardman	I'm used to using bitbake, so I don't need to know the detauils	15:07
StsN800	hehe	15:07
lardman	which is good if that's not what you're interested in	15:07
lardman	otherwise it's just annoying needing to learn something new to get started with what you actuallty want to do	15:07
*** hellwolf-n810 has quit IRC		15:09
*** danilocesar has joined #maemo		15:11
*** etrunko has joined #maemo		15:11
*** lardman is now known as lardman\|lunch		15:13
*** acydlord has joined #maemo		15:15
*** [pcfe] has joined #maemo		15:15
*** kcome has quit IRC		15:16
*** Cwiiis has joined #maemo		15:18
*** geaaru has joined #maemo		15:18
*** Meiz_n810 has joined #maemo		15:20
*** romaxa has joined #maemo		15:22
*** eichi_ has quit IRC		15:25
*** herzi has quit IRC		15:25
*** eocanha has joined #maemo		15:31
*** _acyd_ has quit IRC		15:32
*** herzi has joined #maemo		15:33
AStorm	meh	15:35
lcuk	lardman\|lunch, this whole year has felt like that..	15:35
lcuk	AStorm, its not that bad	15:35
AStorm	iPhone does a stujpid thing with ground :p	15:35
lcuk	bounces?	15:35
*** hannesw has quit IRC		15:35
AStorm	now. having "iPhone compat" headphones...	15:35
AStorm	they friggin work with n810 only when the "talk" button is on	15:36
AStorm	or I don't push them all the way in	15:36
lcuk	well... now my nokia supplied headphones are similar	15:36
AStorm	similar plug	15:36
*** smyows has quit IRC		15:37
lcuk	ive only used them once, but it would be mainly mono but with a low sound in one ear	15:37
lcuk	UNLESS i pressed the talk button	15:37
* RST38h uses BT headphones		15:37
AStorm	thanks to 3rd channel?	15:37
AStorm	it's ficable	15:37
lcuk	yeah thats what i put it down to, ive not watched anything on it since	15:37
AStorm	by connecting the ground correctly in the device	15:38
lcuk	not worth hassle	15:38
AStorm	nah	15:38
AStorm	I could hardcode the talk to always on	15:38
AStorm	but I don't want to chop them down...	15:38
AStorm	it's a stupid gumstick style button	15:39
AStorm	:>	15:39
AStorm	they did it wrong by leaving the ground flying instead of connecting two proper large resistors	15:39
lcuk	dunno, has this been confirmed	15:40
AStorm	I mean, not nokia	15:40
RST38h	"A video of a burning fire is now available as a premium application for the iPhone, but it remains to be seen if even iPhone users are stupid enough to pay $2 to listen to advertisements for Christmas albums."	15:40
AStorm	the headphones	15:40
*** mib_w94tk2 has quit IRC		15:40
RST38h	iPhone users appear to be the ideal consumers. You can sell just about ANYTHING to them	15:41
*** _berto_ has quit IRC		15:41
AStorm	there's a cheap workaround though	15:41
*** romaxa has quit IRC		15:41
AStorm	connect through a proper grounded converter	15:41
lcuk	if people are willing to give money for things do not grumble, merely hold your hand out and smile sweetly	15:41
AStorm	with a large resistor as flying ground	15:41
AStorm	it's nokia's fault too	15:42
RST38h	lcuk: Indeed.	15:42
AStorm	relying on ground, when it's meant to be fourth channel	15:42
AStorm	*third	15:42
AStorm	btw, there's an almost suitable attenuator in pack	15:43
*** lsobral has joined #maemo		15:46
*** harry has joined #maemo		15:46
*** harry is now known as kcome		15:46
AStorm	I was wrong	15:49
AStorm	100% nokia fault	15:49
AStorm	the ground pin is too close to the top of hole	15:50
AStorm	so makes contact with 3rd channel instead of ground if I push the plug in	15:50
AStorm	gah	15:50
* AStorm will mod the device		15:51
AStorm	or indeed, iPhone uses some idiot method of signalling	15:52
*** krau has joined #maemo		15:52
RST38h	it uses a somewhat non-standard plug	15:52
AStorm	nah, normal 3channel plug	15:53
AStorm	same Nokia uses for the stock n810 phones	15:53
AStorm	except I think some kind of signalling uses ground	15:54
AStorm	connected/disconnected	15:54
*** thopiekar has joined #maemo		15:55
AStorm	meh	15:55
AStorm	time to build an adapter I guess	15:55
AStorm	what's funny is that n810 works well with a fully disconnected ground	15:56
*** fiferboy has joined #maemo		15:59
AStorm	I'll check exactly what happens later	16:00
AStorm	when I get to my proper lab tools	16:00
*** thopiekar has left #maemo		16:00
*** avs has quit IRC		16:00
*** kenne has joined #maemo		16:03
*** suihkulokki has quit IRC		16:06
*** t_s_o has joined #maemo		16:10
*** suihkulokki has joined #maemo		16:11
*** dougt_ has quit IRC		16:13
*** aantn has joined #maemo		16:14
*** dougt has joined #maemo		16:14
*** dougt_ has joined #maemo		16:16
*** ttmrichter has quit IRC		16:19
*** dougt has quit IRC		16:20
*** ttmrichter has joined #maemo		16:23
*** dougt_ has quit IRC		16:24
*** andrunko has joined #maemo		16:24
*** frade has quit IRC		16:25
*** _acyd_ has joined #maemo		16:27
*** andrunko has quit IRC		16:30
*** andrunko has joined #maemo		16:31
*** lardman has joined #maemo		16:31
*** lardman is now known as lardman\|home		16:31
lardman\|home	any Debian gurus about?	16:31
*** StsN800 has quit IRC		16:32
*** tekojo has quit IRC		16:33
*** t0h has quit IRC		16:33
*** t0h has joined #maemo		16:34
*** StsN800 has joined #maemo		16:35
*** matt_c has quit IRC		16:36
*** Rhoruns- has quit IRC		16:36
lardman\|home	how ca I override the default CFLAGS in a debian build?	16:37
*** vincenzo has quit IRC		16:38
*** vincenzo has joined #maemo		16:38
*** andrunko has quit IRC		16:38
*** andrunko has joined #maemo		16:38
trenka	lardman\|home: vim debian/rules	16:38
lardman\|home	have done that, no effect	16:38
lardman\|home	http://maemo.pastebin.com/m53ea5962 is my modified one	16:38
*** frade has joined #maemo		16:38
lardman\|home	I added in the CFLAGS and CXXFLAGS stuff	16:38
* trenka hates cdbs		16:39
disco_stu	lardman\|home: what do you want to compile ?	16:39
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: is h-i-m working ?	16:40
lardman\|home	I wonder where these are being set? http://maemo.pastebin.com/m7f055d9a	16:40
lardman\|home	disco_stu: Qalculate	16:40
disco_stu	lardman\|home: does it have a makefile ?	16:40
lardman\|home	yes	16:40
disco_stu	well specify cflags on it	16:40
lardman\|home	but I had hoped to patch rules and let it propogate - see the way configure is called in the pastebin above	16:41
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: didn't try it yet	16:41
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: but hildon-desktop should work with new matchbox-w-m ?	16:42
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: no, we should use the old matchbox wm for now	16:42
Stskeeps	the new one requires clutter i think	16:42
Stskeeps	im going to bootstrap myself now too	16:42
Meiz_n810	hmm..	16:42
Meiz_n810	k	16:42
Stskeeps	it -should- work with old wm	16:42
*** gentooer has joined #maemo		16:43
lardman\|home	disco_stu: so I was really wondering what's calling configure, and where it gets its options from. Any ideas?	16:43
Stskeeps	lardman\|home: checked debian/rules?	16:43
lardman\|home	yeah the pastebin a bit further up	16:43
disco_stu	lardman\|home: no idea	16:43
Stskeeps	lardman\|home: if you want extra CFLAGS; just export CFLAGS=	16:44
lardman\|home	unless the global rules default to those settings	16:44
lardman\|home	Stskeeps: doesn't seem to work	16:44
Stskeeps	hmm	16:44
lardman\|home	though I left a gap	16:44
lardman\|home	nope, my CFLAGS are overridden when configure is called anyway	16:45
*** StsN800 has quit IRC		16:45
*** acydlord has quit IRC		16:45
*** aloisiojr has joined #maemo		16:46
lardman\|home	seems pretty bad form to patch configure to specify CFLAGS	16:47
lardman\|home	as the Makefile will just be regenerated I guess	16:47
*** kontio has quit IRC		16:48
lardman\|home	yeah, configure re-generates the Makefile so no luck there	16:49
*** kleist has quit IRC		16:50
*** matt_c has joined #maemo		16:52
*** aquatix has quit IRC		16:54
*** aquatix has joined #maemo		16:54
*** b1ackdeath has joined #maemo		16:56
*** pancake has quit IRC		16:56
lardman\|home	hmm, had to patch configure.in in the end, feels a bit hacky though	16:56
lardman\|home	bbiab	16:56
*** lardman\|home has quit IRC		16:56
*** krau has quit IRC		16:57
b1ackdeath	is it posible to make the main menu icon's smaller as well as the text so you can see more of your app's, with out using personal menu?	16:58
*** abinader has joined #maemo		16:59
*** x29a has joined #maemo		17:00
*** dougt has joined #maemo		17:00
*** Dar has quit IRC		17:02
yerga	Just installed a Mer chroot in the desktop, but how could I test it in a device? ;)	17:03
*** Wikier has quit IRC		17:04
Stskeeps	i'm testing if the current mer imager works on my n8x0	17:04
Stskeeps	with the updated libhildon	17:04
Stskeeps	patience for a bit :)	17:04
AStorm	b1ackdeath, sure, if you resize all the icons	17:04
AStorm	or remove the large ones	17:04
GeneralAntilles	b1ackdeath, not without recompiling	17:04
AStorm	GeneralAntilles, wrong :P	17:05
GeneralAntilles	The entry numbers are hard-coded.	17:05
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: i re-installed today. worked okay.	17:05
GeneralAntilles	AStorm, the application menu?	17:05
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: alright :)	17:05
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: "okay" as it boots? :P	17:05
GeneralAntilles	Plenty of applications use smaller icons, it doesn't change the line height.	17:05
AStorm	GeneralAntilles, I said you get to resize 64x64 icons	17:05
AStorm	yup, doesn't	17:05
AStorm	:)	17:05
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: installing was okay, i'll boot when i have installed some stuff	17:06
Stskeeps	ah	17:06
GeneralAntilles	AStorm, I'd like to see a screenshot of this.	17:06
AStorm	I a longer while	17:06
AStorm	now I'm testing/abusing my new ue super.fi 4vi	17:07
b1ackdeath	so if you resize the icons its not going to change the size of the menu spacing?	17:07
AStorm	no, it won't	17:07
*** Meizirkki has joined #maemo		17:07
Stskeeps	oh boy, penguinbait is pissy over the pandora	17:07
*** madhav has joined #maemo		17:07
Stskeeps	and the fun fact exchange rate has jumped heavily	17:07
AStorm	harhar	17:08
b1ackdeath	haha pandora looks really kool tho	17:08
*** gentooer has quit IRC		17:08
AStorm	b1ackdeath, vaporware sure looks cool	17:08
AStorm	it's 100% water	17:08
Meizirkki	Stskeeps: hildon-desktop crashes early with the latest packages (matchbox)	17:10
Stskeeps	Meizirkki: hmm.	17:10
*** krau has joined #maemo		17:10
*** dforsyth has quit IRC		17:12
Stskeeps	Meizirkki: i'll try to install it but i'm doing an HCI assignment today so a bit busy :P finals coming up for this semester so	17:12
*** dforsyth has joined #maemo		17:12
b1ackdeath	so about then menu i will need to recompile it, to make it smaller?	17:12
Meizirkki	Stskeeps: i am now playing with solcas android, take your time :P	17:13
*** b1ackdeath has quit IRC		17:13
disco_stu	someone knows how to avoid matchbox restarting ?	17:14
AStorm	disco_stu, check the init script	17:14
*** b1ackdeath has joined #maemo		17:14
AStorm	it is being restarted by the kicker/dsme	17:15
b1ackdeath	sorry lost my cell connection, but the menu, yes or no on needing to recompile	17:15
AStorm	yes	17:16
*** ceyusa has joined #maemo		17:16
b1ackdeath	ok, thanks astorm for the info	17:17
*** andre__ has quit IRC		17:17
*** b1ackdeath has quit IRC		17:18
Meizirkki	Finally! working wifi in new android!	17:18
Meizirkki	:P	17:18
Stskeeps	hehe	17:18
*** andre__ has joined #maemo		17:18
*** lardman\|lunch is now known as lardman		17:18
lardman	re	17:18
RST38h	You mean, WiFi never worked in Android?	17:19
Meizirkki	solca got it working earlier	17:19
Meizirkki	but this is first time it works with my tablet	17:19
RST38h	ah	17:19
disco_stu	well im running openbox now, but i can use the menu to launch aps	17:19
Stskeeps	still crashes?	17:19
Stskeeps	(meiz)	17:20
Meizirkki	Stskeeps: yes :(	17:20
AStorm	disco_stu, menu is hildon-something	17:20
AStorm	afaicr	17:20
Meizirkki	Stskeeps: but it does not happen as often as it happened before	17:24
*** lmoura has quit IRC		17:24
*** lmoura has joined #maemo		17:24
*** Meiz_n810 has quit IRC		17:27
*** qwerty12 has joined #maemo		17:27
*** AD-N770 has quit IRC		17:27
*** ciroip has joined #maemo		17:28
*** Sho_ has quit IRC		17:29
*** geaaru has quit IRC		17:29
*** AD-N770 has joined #maemo		17:30
*** tchan has quit IRC		17:31
*** simon_ has quit IRC		17:32
*** madhav has quit IRC		17:33
*** tchan has joined #maemo		17:36
*** madhav has joined #maemo		17:36
*** gentooer has joined #maemo		17:37
*** gentooer has quit IRC		17:39
*** housetier has quit IRC		17:40
* Stskeeps watches Mer install		17:41
* lardman watches the watching :)		17:43
* RST38h watches over all of you cackling evilly		17:43
* qwerty12 watches lardman who is watching stskeeps installing mer		17:44
* qwerty12 barges RST38h out of the way		17:44
*** krau is now known as krau[away]		17:46
* AStorm is the big brother		17:47
AStorm	I watch you all	17:47
* qwerty12 reports AStorm		17:47
AStorm	to me?	17:48
qwerty12	You choose :P	17:48
*** fab has quit IRC		17:50
* Stskeeps ponders if it would be an excellent fraud to announce big open source hw thing and then just systematically trick people out of the money..		17:52
*** gentooer has joined #maemo		17:52
qwerty12	pandora? :D	17:53
* suihkulokki watches OOo build for the 5th day		17:53
Stskeeps	qwerty12: i was wondering a tad..	17:53
RST38h	Sts: Doing it with software is better	17:54
RST38h	Sts: It takes less expense to just put together a piece of crappy software and tell everyone that "this is IT"	17:54
Stskeeps	RST38h: yeah, but people pre-order hw, you usually don't with sw	17:54
suihkulokki	Stskeeps: you'd have to use something else than credit cards to rip the people off	17:55
Stskeeps	.. bank transfers? :P	17:55
suihkulokki	and convining people to preorder with something else than credit card is tricky :P	17:56
AStorm	even money transfers are hard	17:56
AStorm	too easy to trace	17:57
Stskeeps	yeah, western union would be better, with mules :P	17:57
*** jpuderer has joined #maemo		17:57
suihkulokki	and noone would be suspicous	17:57
*** aantn has quit IRC		17:57
AStorm	western ripoff? nobody sane uses that	17:57
AStorm	try paypal :P	17:57
*** phsiao has joined #maemo		17:57
Stskeeps	AStorm: you'd be surprised how many people get ripped off through that..	17:58
AStorm	code id10t	17:58
*** _berto_ has joined #maemo		17:58
qwerty12	whee, Kismet takes the life out of your N800. I was running it for 17 hours, connected to the charger, just took it off and battery is at 55%	17:59
qwerty12	Fanoush's latest thread is interesting	18:01
Stskeeps	which one?	18:01
qwerty12	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=248126#post248126	18:01
Stskeeps	yeah, we were wandering through it last night	18:02
*** phsiao has quit IRC		18:03
*** k-s[AWAY] is now known as k-s		18:03
*** gentooer has quit IRC		18:03
*** phsiao has joined #maemo		18:04
*** Zic has joined #maemo		18:04
*** jagernot has joined #maemo		18:04
*** simon_ has joined #maemo		18:04
Stskeeps	Meizirkki: so far it didn't crash for me (hildon), but i think we need to use m-b-2	18:07
*** pupnik_ has joined #maemo		18:08
*** pupnik has quit IRC		18:10
*** cyberholic has joined #maemo		18:11
cyberholic	hi everyone. me again. i just developed the first "photoframe" mojo on mojocafe.net - it snatches the photos from flickr.com so the question is: what kind of photo terms would you like to see on your device while acting like a photoframe?	18:12
Stskeeps	pornography, ideally	18:13
qwerty12	hehe	18:13
ciroip	cyberholic: pr0n?	18:13
Stskeeps	.. but i would preferably like to be able to adjust it to my own settings	18:13
Stskeeps	:P	18:13
qwerty12	Stskeeps, does the fremantle hildon-desktop have the ability to lock applets?	18:14
cyberholic	ciropip: lol...	18:14
*** booiiing has quit IRC		18:14
cyberholic	sts: i will make such a mojo tomorrow or the day after tomorrow. you can then enter or a word or an user id	18:14
qwerty12	cyberholic, can I request a "drug of the day" mojo? :P	18:15
ciroip	cyberholic: world of warcraft screenshots	18:15
cyberholic	qwerty: sure! more the wikipedia style or do you want to have a strobo effect that changes your brain? lol	18:16
qwerty12	strobo effect please! :D	18:16
cyberholic	ciroip: as a slideshow? aint that tooo boring?	18:16
ciroip	sure is boring	18:16
ciroip	for normal people	18:17
*** booiiing has joined #maemo		18:17
Stskeeps	qwerty12: i'm not sure	18:17
qwerty12	ok	18:17
Stskeeps	qwerty12: i dont have any applets right now..	18:17
Stskeeps	:P	18:17
ciroip	u probably dont know a lot of wow players :)	18:17
cyberholic	ciroip: lol. for the first time in my life i have entered "pron" in flickr..... never guess what you will see ;)	18:17
qwerty12	Stskeeps, hehe, hello world applet. NOW! :P	18:17
Stskeeps	qwerty12: building mbwm-2 atm	18:17
Stskeeps	clutter	18:17
Stskeeps	:P	18:17
qwerty12	hehe	18:17
Stskeeps	i wonder if it's built for armel..	18:17
Stskeeps	:P	18:17
ciroip	http://www.figureprints.com/Gallery.aspx	18:18
qwerty12	wtf, people buy this?!	18:19
ciroip	I told you	18:19
ciroip	that feature alone can convince people to buy a nokia tablet :)	18:19
ciroip	wow player are RICH and bored	18:19
ciroip	s	18:19
*** cyberholic has quit IRC		18:20
qwerty12	lol	18:20
ciroip	and they are millions	18:20
*** mgedmin has quit IRC		18:21
glass_	yeah and stupid, otherwise they'd notice that they'	18:21
Meizirkki	Stskeeps: what's m-b-2 (matchbox-2?)	18:22
glass_	're bored of the game	18:22
Stskeeps	Meizirkki: yeah	18:22
Meizirkki	k	18:22
Stskeeps	Meizirkki: but i dont think it'll compile	18:22
Stskeeps	on armel just now	18:22
*** zap has quit IRC		18:22
AStorm	Stskeeps, build us e17	18:23
AStorm	:)	18:24
qwerty12	lardman, how did gmp go?	18:24
lardman	qwerty12: complied ok	18:26
lardman	qwerty12: with fix from that buf	18:27
lardman	bug	18:27
qwerty12	cool	18:27
lardman	am compiling Qalculate atm, at home	18:27
qwerty12	gtk version? :)	18:27
lardman	lib atm, then gtk version when I get back and start it	18:27
lardman	all with vfp enabled	18:28
qwerty12	nice, nice	18:28
lardman	has taken a while as I've been compiling giac deps at the same time	18:28
Stskeeps	qwerty12: can you be coerced into a md5sum package? :P	18:28
* qwerty12 enables vfp on everything now, blindly. I'm a bad person.		18:28
qwerty12	Stskeeps, busy atm :/	18:28
Stskeeps	k	18:28
*** hannesw has joined #maemo		18:28
qwerty12	doesn't debian have one?	18:28
qwerty12	s/debian/ubuntu or whatever	18:28
Stskeeps	part of coreutils i think	18:28
Stskeeps	which dialog mode is it that makes them movable?	18:29
Stskeeps	in mb	18:29
qwerty12	free	18:29
AStorm	qwerty12, it should work	18:29
AStorm	nicer and faster	18:30
qwerty12	turning off supermodal too is nice	18:30
AStorm	but not than arm optimized assemblay	18:30
qwerty12	AStorm, yeah, that's why I do it, in the hope :)	18:30
qwerty12	yep	18:30
*** fab has joined #maemo		18:32
*** aantn has joined #maemo		18:32
*** bergie has quit IRC		18:32
Stskeeps	E: Build-Depends dependency for matchbox-window-manager-2 cannot be satisfied because the package libclutter-0.8-dev cannot be found	18:34
Stskeeps	damnit	18:34
qwerty12	ooh la la	18:34
* Stskeeps isnt sure libhildon is for the old matchbox		18:35
AStorm	libhildon is wm-neutral	18:36
AStorm	afaicr	18:36
Stskeeps	mm.	18:36
*** konttori_ has joined #maemo		18:38
*** jpuderer has quit IRC		18:38
*** ab has quit IRC		18:40
*** kcome has quit IRC		18:41
*** harryl has joined #maemo		18:44
*** vincenzo has quit IRC		18:44
*** k-s[WORK] has joined #maemo		18:44
*** k-s[WORK] is now known as k-s[AWAY]		18:45
*** k-s[AWAY] is now known as k-s[WORK]		18:45
*** k-s has quit IRC		18:47
*** k-s[WORK] is now known as k-s		18:47
*** aantn has quit IRC		18:52
Stskeeps	curious question, qwerty12, in diablo, are the dialogs movable on the window contents with touch?	18:52
Stskeeps	with the movable dialogs thing	18:52
Stskeeps	not the title bar	18:52
qwerty12	I can move a window by dragging from the area next to the ok & cancel buttons in hildon-desktop's select applets window	18:53
Stskeeps	ok	18:53
Proteous	cancel	18:54
qwerty12	heh	18:54
*** Ryback_ has quit IRC		18:56
*** Ryback_ has joined #maemo		18:57
*** Meizirkki has quit IRC		18:58
*** rmoravcik has quit IRC		19:01
*** lardman is now known as lardman\|gone		19:02
*** Meizirkki has joined #maemo		19:02
*** eichi_ has joined #maemo		19:02
Stskeeps	Meizirkki: how exactly does your hildon crash?	19:04
*** bipolar has quit IRC		19:10
*** Free_maN has quit IRC		19:10
*** Meiz_n810 has joined #maemo		19:15
*** zs has joined #maemo		19:16
*** dougt has quit IRC		19:21
Meiz_n810	Web browsing in android: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-7232749278972911905	19:24
Stskeeps	again, what's with the zoom..	19:25
* Stskeeps is quite considering the thought Meizirkki is a robot.		19:25
Meiz_n810	it works pretty good	19:26
Meiz_n810	(zoom)	19:26
Stskeeps	looks alright	19:27
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: the camera is mounted in stand (or whatever)	19:27
Stskeeps	ah	19:27
*** acydlord has joined #maemo		19:27
*** abinader has quit IRC		19:29
Stskeeps	i'm just glad to see the versatile nature of the devices :)	19:29
Stskeeps	but is android something you'd use on a daily basis if it was stable?	19:29
Meiz_n810	maybe not	19:30
Meiz_n810	multiboot? yes :P	19:30
*** jagernot has quit IRC		19:30
Meiz_n810	itT is pretty heavy page... i should have used something else to show scrolling.	19:30
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: My daily basics are something that can not be done in android :P	19:31
Stskeeps	alright	19:31
* Stskeeps notes to himself mr. scruff is ideal to listen to when doing HCI excersises.		19:33
*** abinader has joined #maemo		19:33
zs	hi what devices will be maemo 5 for?	19:35
Stskeeps	the next nokia device only, but backport effects of base packages is in progress.	19:35
Stskeeps	efforts	19:36
Stskeeps	by community	19:36
Stskeeps	and nokia is showing a good attitude towards helping out	19:36
*** dougt has joined #maemo		19:36
zs	ok but is there any information about next devices somewhere?	19:36
Stskeeps	not yet	19:37
Stskeeps	there's hints laying about	19:37
Stskeeps	it will have 3g data though	19:37
Stskeeps	and omap3	19:37
zs	nice	19:37
*** zommi has quit IRC		19:38
* Meiz_n810 is still unable to get hildon-desktop start in Mer :(		19:43
*** lmoura has quit IRC		19:43
*** lmoura has joined #maemo		19:43
*** harryl has quit IRC		19:44
*** Pio has quit IRC		19:44
*** jpuderer has joined #maemo		19:44
*** _acyd_ has quit IRC		19:44
t_s_o	hmm, is there a chance to try out mer without having to flash a device, or dedicate a SD card to the task?	19:44
AStorm	yes, use immc?	19:45
*** florian has quit IRC		19:45
*** tobmaster has quit IRC		19:45
Stskeeps	t_s_o: initfs flashing is needed (bootmenu), but i haven't made mer-in-a-file yet	19:45
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: weird, mine worked fine	19:46
Meiz_n810	t_s_o: try it on your computer? :P	19:46
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: i'll try to run it as a user	19:46
disco_stu	Stskeeps: could you paste your bootmenu.conf in a pastebin ?	19:46
Stskeeps	disco_stu: i use my bootmenu item system	19:46
disco_stu	right..	19:46
*** Cwiiis has quit IRC		19:46
Stskeeps	so what are you asking for then? ;)	19:46
Stskeeps	bootmenu.conf is a script in that, so :P	19:47
disco_stu	i have a problem setting a menu item for flash	19:47
*** Meiz_n810 has quit IRC		19:47
t_s_o	immc?	19:48
Stskeeps	internal mmc	19:48
disco_stu	jffs	19:48
Stskeeps	and you don't need to dedicate a mmc, just a partitio	19:48
Stskeeps	n	19:48
*** bipolar has joined #maemo		19:48
Meizirkki	disco_stu: you don't need to make .item for internal-flash	19:49
Stskeeps	t_s_o: i'll do a proper writeup to get the alpha in people's hands .. but for now i have a HCI excersise to focus on :P	19:49
Stskeeps	which i just want over with	19:49
disco_stu	Meizirkki: i am not using the item system	19:49
Meizirkki	k	19:49
*** Cwiiis has joined #maemo		19:49
disco_stu	Meizirkki: im editing bootmenu.conf manually	19:49
t_s_o	Stskeeps: i own one of those "pesky" N800's ;)	19:50
Stskeeps	t_s_o: .. internal and external SD :P	19:50
Stskeeps	i have a n800 too	19:50
t_s_o	hehe	19:50
t_s_o	meh, maybe ill order myself a extra SD, just to have the main system cloned onto for emergencies...	19:50
*** Pebby_ has quit IRC		19:51
Stskeeps	Meizirkki: it really wonders me your hildon fails to start - i just did an imager and it boots fine	19:52
Meizirkki	Maybe my fault... i made font size modifications into gtkrc	19:52
Stskeeps	that's possible	19:52
*** andrewfblack has joined #maemo		19:52
andrewfblack	Hey guys	19:52
Meizirkki	hi	19:53
Meizirkki	Stskeeps: now it just shows me left panel with nothing in it, and everything else it white	19:53
Stskeeps	ok.. might be because of gtkrc problem	19:53
Stskeeps	t_s_o: http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~mer-committers/m-r/imager/files if you want to have a look around	19:54
disco_stu	after clonning my os , when hildon starts i hear a guy talking	19:54
disco_stu	wtf ?	19:55
Stskeeps	disco_stu: blame penguinbait	19:55
disco_stu	how do i remove it ?	19:55
Meizirkki	disco_stu: http://pastebin.com/m25db576c	19:55
Meizirkki	my bootmenu.conf	19:55
disco_stu	Meizirkki: thanks	19:55
*** chelli has joined #maemo		19:55
Meizirkki	disco_stu: linus tolwards :P	19:55
Stskeeps	Meizirkki: i assume that's my bootmenu, just without loading the .items :P	19:56
Meizirkki	yep	19:56
disco_stu	i dont want to hear that	19:56
Meizirkki	i have had a lot of problems with .item files	19:56
Stskeeps	fair enough, since you reflash so much	19:56
Meizirkki	:P	19:56
*** Sargun has quit IRC		19:57
* Stskeeps commits the mer-d945glclf2-fs-only target (no X yet in it)		19:57
Meizirkki	Stskeeps: even if i flash android kernel every day, i can just flash back the diablo:s kernel, it does not override diablo or even bootmenu :)	19:57
Stskeeps	yeah, true	19:57
disco_stu	Stskeeps: do you know how to avoid the sound ?	19:58
Stskeeps	disco_stu: i suspect torturing penguinbait would do the trick	19:58
Meizirkki	disco_stu: delete the sound file :P	19:58
disco_stu	dont know where it is	19:59
lcuk	use extreme earbuds	19:59
lcuk	2foot long with a metal tip	19:59
Meizirkki	disco_stu: it's in /isr/share/sounds i guess	19:59
Meizirkki	no	20:00
Meizirkki	it's not	20:00
Meizirkki	it was somewhere around root:s home directory	20:00
disco_stu	what he did is a windows type of shit	20:02
*** Cwiiis has quit IRC		20:02
*** mardi__ has quit IRC		20:02
Meizirkki	penguinbait or linus ?	20:02
disco_stu	penguinbat.. putting that stupid sound	20:03
Meizirkki	did you find the file?	20:03
disco_stu	not yet	20:03
*** mardi__ has joined #maemo		20:04
disco_stu	/root/.linux	20:04
disco_stu	/root/.linus	20:04
Meizirkki	k	20:05
*** lopz has quit IRC		20:05
*** krau has joined #maemo		20:05
disco_stu	900k	20:05
disco_stu	the fucking wav	20:05
*** krau[away] has quit IRC		20:06
Meizirkki	pretty big...	20:06
*** housetier has joined #maemo		20:07
*** Pebby has joined #maemo		20:08
*** Free_maN has joined #maemo		20:09
*** netvandal has joined #maemo		20:10
netvandal	hi all	20:11
Meizirkki	hi	20:11
netvandal	i've a small problem with my n810.. can i ask here?	20:12
Meizirkki	of course	20:12
netvandal	:)	20:12
netvandal	my device had keyboard freeze after some idle time, and then, it reboot	20:13
netvandal	i checked the Rebootingissue on the wiki	20:13
Meizirkki	Stskeeps: i uninstalled plankton-theme, remover /usr/share/themes/plankton/, installed plankton back and hildon still won't start :(	20:13
netvandal	a sw_rst	20:13
Meizirkki	netvandal: have you checked itT?	20:14
Meizirkki	(internettablettalk.com)	20:14
netvandal	i've read of someone with similar issue	20:14
netvandal	but cannot find solution	20:14
netvandal	the only strange thing that i've found is in dmesg	20:14
netvandal	[ 52.140625] JFFS2 notice: (424) check_node_data: wrong data CRC in data node at 0x0b7f030c: read 0x9a463a63, calculated 0xbeeb5144.	20:15
netvandal	but i'm not sure that is the problem	20:15
Stskeeps	Meizirkki: rm -rf .osso?	20:15
Stskeeps	in user library	20:15
Meizirkki	Stskeeps: i'll try	20:16
Stskeeps	er	20:17
Stskeeps	user home directory, or /root	20:17
Meizirkki	i'm gonna start hildon as user so i removed .osso in user home	20:17
netvandal	i'm the only one with that message in dmesg? it could be a device issue?	20:17
Meizirkki	Stskeeps: not working :(	20:18
Stskeeps	Meizirkki: reinstall and dont touch it at first, then start tinkering :P	20:18
Meizirkki	Stskeeps: if the imager has updates, can you pack me a tar.gz? :P	20:19
*** eichi_ has quit IRC		20:20
Stskeeps	get http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/bzr/bzr_1.10~rc1-1_armel.modfied.deb , take the files in http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/bzr/ and put in /usr/lib/python2.5	20:20
Stskeeps	er, bzr/libz.tar.gz	20:20
Meizirkki	k	20:21
Stskeeps	(unpack, it's getpass.py, and tty.py)	20:21
qwerty12	hehe, xchat highlighted :P	20:21
Stskeeps	and bzr branch lp:~mer-committers/m-r/imager	20:21
disco_stu	netvandal: have you flashed it =	20:21
Stskeeps	and you can update with bzr pull	20:21
disco_stu	?	20:21
*** Meiz_n810 has joined #maemo		20:21
Stskeeps	netvandal: usual error when doing a crash i think	20:21
netvandal	yes	20:21
Stskeeps	if it lost some kind of data	20:21
netvandal	but if i do a clean reboot the error is stille there	20:21
*** ciroip_ has joined #maemo		20:22
Stskeeps	should fix itself eventually.. im not sure it's fatal	20:22
netvandal	i don't think it's fatal	20:22
netvandal	the device work correctly for hours...	20:22
disco_stu	i would try reflashing	20:22
netvandal	but after some idle time..., randomly, it freeze the keyboard and then, after some minute eboot	20:23
netvandal	i just reflashed	20:23
disco_stu	keeps doing it ?	20:23
netvandal	yes	20:23
netvandal	this evening i retry	20:23
disco_stu	shit	20:23
netvandal	but i've done it more than one time	20:23
*** AD-N770 has quit IRC		20:24
netvandal	is quite annoing	20:24
disco_stu	you should check itt	20:24
netvandal	warranty?	20:24
*** fie has quit IRC		20:25
disco_stu	eventually	20:25
*** ciroip has quit IRC		20:26
netvandal	is what i try to decide.... if send to repair or not	20:26
*** frade has quit IRC		20:27
*** murrayc has quit IRC		20:28
*** pH5 has joined #maemo		20:29
*** Pio has joined #maemo		20:29
*** andre__ has quit IRC		20:31
*** andre__ has joined #maemo		20:31
*** gnuton has joined #maemo		20:31
gnuton	hi there	20:31
Meizirkki	Stskeeps: maybe n800 target should be named to n8x0 target.. or is n800 target for n800 and n810 will come later?	20:32
Stskeeps	i'll have a n810 target too	20:33
Meizirkki	k	20:33
Stskeeps	cos of the GPS driver and keyboard and such	20:33
Stskeeps	for now they're similar	20:33
Meizirkki	ok	20:33
*** fie has joined #maemo		20:33
Stskeeps	and targets for nokia included binaries.. etc	20:36
Meizirkki	k	20:36
lcuk	o we have keyboard hardware mentioned anywhere?	20:36
lcuk	d	20:36
Stskeeps	yeah	20:37
Stskeeps	it does have a kbd	20:37
lcuk	phew!	20:37
Stskeeps	and a vibrator, for the kinky	20:37
Stskeeps	gives a new meaning to wet sd slot	20:37
lcuk	can at least test haptics :)	20:37
Stskeeps	yeah, a tiny vibration when you press a key on on screen :P	20:38
lcuk	i was thinking when you stroke and you go over a boundary but yeah thats the idea	20:38
lcuk	could do it using jagernotes but it would be less effective	20:38
netvandal	thanks to all, i go out and when i come back try to reflash... onother time... bye...	20:39
*** netvandal has left #maemo		20:39
*** Zic has quit IRC		20:40
* AStorm waits for n-future impatiently		20:42
* lcuk twiddles astorms thumbs		20:43
*** briatx has joined #maemo		20:44
*** briatx has left #maemo		20:44
*** bilboed-pi has quit IRC		20:46
*** hellwolf has joined #maemo		20:46
*** vivijim has joined #maemo		20:48
*** Guest22453 is now known as Astro		20:48
*** Astro is now known as Guest88819		20:48
* Meizirkki is waiting for imager to install Mer impatiently		20:49
Meizirkki	Stskeeps: as soon as this works, i'll make that tar.gz-backup :P	20:50
Stskeeps	hehe	20:50
*** L0cutus has quit IRC		20:52
* GAN800 sighs at trolls		20:52
andrewfblack	Hey GA	20:52
GAN800	Hi, andrewfblack	20:52
Stskeeps	GAN800: it's your authority-like nick that gives off a bad vibe ;)	20:53
GAN800	Stskeeps, maybe I should change to 'OMGPonies'	20:54
Stskeeps	or HelloMaemo	20:54
GAN800	With a Hello Kitty avatar	20:54
andrewfblack	GAN800 that would be so cute do it!	20:54
GAN800	I can't seem to post anymore without some jackass interjecting theie '2 cents' about 'tone'. <_<	20:54
GAN800	andrewfblack, we're switching bugzilla to a Hello Kitty theme for April Fool's. ;)	20:55
andrewfblack	GAN800 lol, wait I thought we always interjected our 2 cents about your tone.	20:56
Stskeeps	GAN800: quick question, you happen to know if the git maemo plans include per-user repos?	20:57
GAN800	Stskeeps, per Garage project	20:58
Stskeeps	ok, because per user is -very- useful in terms of publishing and such	20:58
Stskeeps	as you can then merge into the project one etc	20:58
GAN800	Stskeeps, mention it on the wiki page	20:58
Stskeeps	i will	20:58
*** udisco_st has joined #maemo		21:00
GAN800	Well, andrewfblack, it's one thing if I'm actually being sarcastic, but way more obnoxious when I'm just trying to help somebody out. ;)	21:00
*** hannesw has quit IRC		21:01
*** bipolar_ has joined #maemo		21:02
*** krau_ has joined #maemo		21:02
*** krau_ is now known as krau[away]		21:02
andrewfblack	ohh yeah I would never say anything if you are helping someone out. I just figured you was talking about one of your here is the search link posts. Come to think of it I havn't seen one of those in awhile	21:03
lcuk	you arent obnoxious GAN800, simply annoying and frustrating and short and terse and bitchslappy and grating and angry. though somehow none of that matters any more cos you smile in your forum avatar :D	21:03
*** bergwolf has quit IRC		21:03
*** Guest88819 has quit IRC		21:03
*** Pebby has quit IRC		21:03
*** lardman\|gone has quit IRC		21:03
*** zhaozhou has quit IRC		21:03
*** trickie has quit IRC		21:03
*** Luria has quit IRC		21:03
*** pyhimys has quit IRC		21:03
*** kabtoffe has quit IRC		21:03
*** ccooke has quit IRC		21:03
*** Blafasel has quit IRC		21:03
*** RP has quit IRC		21:03
*** Robot101 has quit IRC		21:03
*** `Mace has quit IRC		21:03
*** Stskeeps has quit IRC		21:03
*** kulve has quit IRC		21:03
*** Hirvinen has quit IRC		21:03
*** lele has quit IRC		21:03
*** inz has quit IRC		21:03
*** sibbe has quit IRC		21:03
*** fie has quit IRC		21:03
*** andre__ has quit IRC		21:03
*** pH5 has quit IRC		21:03
*** krau has quit IRC		21:03
*** chelli has quit IRC		21:03
*** bipolar has quit IRC		21:03
*** abinader has quit IRC		21:03
*** k-s has quit IRC		21:03
*** Gracana has quit IRC		21:03
*** krutt has quit IRC		21:03
*** ijon_ has quit IRC		21:03
*** greentux has quit IRC		21:03
*** yerga has quit IRC		21:03
*** dlmarti has quit IRC		21:03
*** alextreme has quit IRC		21:03
*** Mek has quit IRC		21:03
*** z4chh has quit IRC		21:03
*** oli has quit IRC		21:03
*** jaska has quit IRC		21:03
*** practisevoodoo_ has quit IRC		21:03
*** bmidgley has quit IRC		21:03
*** mariorz has quit IRC		21:03
*** Dasajev has quit IRC		21:03
*** ToyKeeper has quit IRC		21:03
*** disco_stu has quit IRC		21:03
*** Navi has quit IRC		21:03
*** zorrolero has quit IRC		21:03
*** _freelikegnu has quit IRC		21:03
*** l7 has quit IRC		21:03
*** robtaylor has quit IRC		21:03
*** rwhitby has quit IRC		21:03
*** fredix has quit IRC		21:03
*** \|thunder has quit IRC		21:03
AStorm	:P	21:03
AStorm	blah split	21:03
lcuk	omg, the wrath of GAN - he caused a netsplit	21:03
*** Pebby has joined #maemo		21:03
*** lardman\|gone has joined #maemo		21:03
*** zhaozhou has joined #maemo		21:03
*** trickie has joined #maemo		21:03
*** Luria has joined #maemo		21:03
*** bergwolf has joined #maemo		21:03
*** kulve has joined #maemo		21:03
*** Stskeeps has joined #maemo		21:03
*** RP has joined #maemo		21:03
*** ccooke has joined #maemo		21:03
*** Hirvinen has joined #maemo		21:03
*** pyhimys has joined #maemo		21:03
*** Robot101 has joined #maemo		21:03
*** Blafasel has joined #maemo		21:03
*** kabtoffe has joined #maemo		21:03
*** Guest88819 has joined #maemo		21:03
*** `Mace has joined #maemo		21:03
*** mardi__ has quit IRC		21:03
*** _freelikegnu has joined #maemo		21:03
*** mariorz has joined #maemo		21:04
AStorm	lcuk, actually, you summed him up well	21:04
GAN800	andrewfblack, I just link wiki pages	21:04
andrewfblack	lcuk lol	21:04
AStorm	:ÜPJ	21:04
AStorm	:P	21:04
* AStorm hides		21:04
*** krutt has joined #maemo		21:04
*** qwerty12 has quit IRC		21:04
AStorm	GAN800, that smells of RTFM	21:04
*** mariorz has quit IRC		21:04
lcuk	:D ive never thought of him like that	21:04
*** mariorz_ has joined #maemo		21:04
*** fie has joined #maemo		21:04
*** andre__ has joined #maemo		21:04
*** pH5 has joined #maemo		21:04
*** krau has joined #maemo		21:04
*** chelli has joined #maemo		21:04
*** abinader has joined #maemo		21:04
*** k-s has joined #maemo		21:04
*** lele has joined #maemo		21:04
*** Gracana has joined #maemo		21:04
*** ijon_ has joined #maemo		21:04
*** greentux has joined #maemo		21:04
*** yerga has joined #maemo		21:04
*** z4chh has joined #maemo		21:04
*** dlmarti has joined #maemo		21:04
*** alextreme has joined #maemo		21:04
*** Mek has joined #maemo		21:04
*** inz has joined #maemo		21:04
*** practisevoodoo_ has joined #maemo		21:04
*** \|thunder has joined #maemo		21:04
*** Navi has joined #maemo		21:04
*** rwhitby has joined #maemo		21:04
*** sibbe has joined #maemo		21:04
*** robtaylor has joined #maemo		21:04
*** fredix has joined #maemo		21:04
*** l7 has joined #maemo		21:04
*** jaska has joined #maemo		21:04
*** zorrolero has joined #maemo		21:04
*** oli has joined #maemo		21:04
*** ToyKeeper has joined #maemo		21:04
*** bmidgley has joined #maemo		21:04
*** mariorz has joined #maemo		21:04
*** Dasajev has joined #maemo		21:04
*** mariorz has quit IRC		21:04
*** k-s has quit IRC		21:04
*** fredix has quit IRC		21:04
*** fredix_ has joined #maemo		21:04
*** k-s has joined #maemo		21:04
GAN800	AStorm, :roll:	21:04
*** _berto_ has quit IRC		21:05
GAN800	AStorm, you'd prefer I just cut'n'paste the whole fucking wiki page into a new post to every 'how do I boot from sd' post?	21:05
lcuk	<kirk>GANNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNNN!!!!!</kirk>	21:05
AStorm	:>	21:05
Stskeeps	whoa	21:05
GAN800	The wiki's there to answer those unending questions.	21:05
AStorm	no	21:05
*** lardman has joined #maemo		21:06
AStorm	yes, but more than just link	21:06
Stskeeps	GAN800: https://wiki.maemo.org/Talk:Git_For_Garage#Per-user_git_repositories , i'm starting to have thoughts on how to use Garage for Mer teams, so	21:06
lardman	you lot seen this?	21:06
AStorm	have a canned paste or sth :P	21:06
lardman	http://www.gp32x.com/board/index.php?showtopic=45664	21:06
lardman	:)	21:06
GAN800	AStorm, feel free to step up and do it.	21:06
Stskeeps	lardman: SGX though?	21:06
AStorm	GAN800, far too busy usually to even read the forums	21:07
GAN800	AStorm, then don't tell how to do it. :)	21:07
lcuk	lardman, i get the feeling we will see the nokia pandora soon ;)	21:07
AStorm	I had my share of forum life a long time ago	21:07
*** lele has quit IRC		21:09
*** sibbe has quit IRC		21:09
*** inz has quit IRC		21:09
*** lardman has quit IRC		21:09
*** jaska has quit IRC		21:09
*** practisevoodoo_ has quit IRC		21:09
*** dlmarti has quit IRC		21:09
*** Dasajev has quit IRC		21:09
*** fie has quit IRC		21:09
*** oli has quit IRC		21:09
*** ijon_ has quit IRC		21:09
*** pH5 has quit IRC		21:09
*** Gracana has quit IRC		21:09
*** z4chh has quit IRC		21:09
*** greentux has quit IRC		21:09
*** bmidgley has quit IRC		21:09
*** ToyKeeper has quit IRC		21:09
*** chelli has quit IRC		21:09
*** andre__ has quit IRC		21:09
*** yerga has quit IRC		21:09
*** Navi has quit IRC		21:09
*** alextreme has quit IRC		21:09
*** l7 has quit IRC		21:09
*** rwhitby has quit IRC		21:09
*** Mek has quit IRC		21:09
*** robtaylor has quit IRC		21:09
*** krau has quit IRC		21:09
*** zorrolero has quit IRC		21:09
*** \|thunder has quit IRC		21:09
*** abinader has quit IRC		21:09
Meizirkki	again	21:09
*** qwerty12_N800 has joined #maemo		21:09
AStorm	expecting a server notice any time soon? :>	21:09
*** thopiekar has joined #maemo		21:10
*** thopiekar has left #maemo		21:10
*** lardman has joined #maemo		21:11
*** fie has joined #maemo		21:11
*** andre__ has joined #maemo		21:11
*** pH5 has joined #maemo		21:11
*** krau has joined #maemo		21:11
*** chelli has joined #maemo		21:11
*** abinader has joined #maemo		21:11
*** lele has joined #maemo		21:11
*** Gracana has joined #maemo		21:11
*** ijon_ has joined #maemo		21:11
*** greentux has joined #maemo		21:11
*** yerga has joined #maemo		21:11
*** z4chh has joined #maemo		21:11
*** dlmarti has joined #maemo		21:11
*** alextreme has joined #maemo		21:11
*** Mek has joined #maemo		21:11
*** inz has joined #maemo		21:11
*** practisevoodoo_ has joined #maemo		21:11
*** \|thunder has joined #maemo		21:11
*** Navi has joined #maemo		21:11
*** rwhitby has joined #maemo		21:11
*** sibbe has joined #maemo		21:11
*** robtaylor has joined #maemo		21:11
*** l7 has joined #maemo		21:11
*** jaska has joined #maemo		21:11
*** zorrolero has joined #maemo		21:11
*** oli has joined #maemo		21:11
*** ToyKeeper has joined #maemo		21:11
*** bmidgley has joined #maemo		21:11
*** Dasajev has joined #maemo		21:11
*** ciroip__ has joined #maemo		21:11
*** jaska has quit IRC		21:11
*** fiferboy has quit IRC		21:11
*** jaska has joined #maemo		21:12
*** mardi__ has joined #maemo		21:12
*** zorrolero has quit IRC		21:13
*** zorrolero has joined #maemo		21:13
*** StsN800 has joined #maemo		21:14
*** m-c- has joined #maemo		21:15
*** rwhitby has quit IRC		21:15
*** rwhitby has joined #maemo		21:16
*** krau has quit IRC		21:19
*** udisco_st is now known as disco_stu		21:19
*** Pio has quit IRC		21:21
*** chelli has quit IRC		21:23
*** zs has quit IRC		21:23
GAN800	Stskeeps, you wanna shoot for this Sunday or the next?	21:23
RST38h	Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa	21:24
RST38h	My poor little Ubuntu installation	21:24
AStorm	less ubuntu = more smarts :)	21:25
Meizirkki	:P	21:25
*** Pio has joined #maemo		21:25
Meizirkki	less Windows = more smarts :)	21:26
qwerty12_N800	hehe	21:26
AStorm	that too	21:26
AStorm	unless it's 2008 Server	21:26
RST38h	Why does any Linux based SDK author thinks that he can use 1GB of my disk space?	21:26
*** Luria has quit IRC		21:27
RST38h	First Maemo SDK. Now Open-freaking-embedded	21:27
AStorm	RST38h, because they don't know about -Os	21:27
AStorm	also, glibc is a pig	21:27
AStorm	what's more, these are full chroots for some reason	21:28
* RST38h asks the Tentacled One to punish puny penguin worshippers		21:28
RST38h	AStorm: I did not ask them for a full chroot. I asked them for a toolchain!	21:28
AStorm	qemu is not part of one...	21:28
t_s_o	full chroots = little to no interference between environments?	21:28
AStorm	t_s_o, more or less	21:29
AStorm	and many times more space used	21:29
AStorm	:P	21:29
t_s_o	then it may well be wroth it...	21:29
AStorm	no	21:29
AStorm	:)	21:29
AStorm	RST38h, anyway, to build a system, you need a lot of disk space	21:29
*** ciroip_ has quit IRC		21:29
*** Luria has joined #maemo		21:30
*** gnuton has quit IRC		21:30
*** Meizirkki is now known as Meizirkki_		21:31
*** alex-weej has joined #maemo		21:32
*** Meizirkki_ is now known as Meizirkki		21:32
*** Meiz_n810 is now known as _Meiz_n810		21:32
RST38h	AStorm: I do not need to build the fucking system	21:32
*** Meizirkki is now known as Meiz_n810		21:32
*** zap has joined #maemo		21:32
RST38h	Just develop applications for it	21:32
*** Meiz_n810 is now known as Meizirkki		21:32
*** _Meiz_n810 is now known as Meiz_n810		21:32
RST38h	Which btw brings a question: why does Ubuntu Linux image package 98MB in size	21:32
RST38h	s/does/is/	21:33
infobot	RST38h meant: Which btw brings a question: why is Ubuntu Linux image package 98MB in size	21:33
AStorm	RST38h, #or that you need a system	21:33
AStorm	*for	21:33
RST38h	AStorm: No. Just need a toolchain and a bunch of .h files	21:33
lardman	rejoined :)	21:33
AStorm	wrong	21:33
AStorm	you need dependent libs	21:33
lardman	have you chaps seen this?: http://dominion.thruhere.net/koen/OE/pvr/	21:33
*** mardi__ has quit IRC		21:33
AStorm	to link against	21:33
*** Meizirkki is now known as Meiz__n810		21:33
*** chelli has joined #maemo		21:33
RST38h	AStorm: Ok. And a bunch of libs.	21:33
*** Meiz__n810 is now known as Meizirkki		21:34
AStorm	including libc	21:34
RST38h	including libc	21:34
AStorm	now, clean crossdev toolchain takes 100 MB	21:34
AStorm	:P	21:34
*** Ivan_Chelubeev has joined #maemo		21:34
*** Ivan_Chelubeev has left #maemo		21:34
RST38h	AStorm: But not 1GB, no?	21:35
AStorm	definitely	21:35
AStorm	adding a bunch of libs doesn't make it 1GB	21:35
RST38h	'cause that is how much OpenEmbedded just wanted to take	21:35
AStorm	unless it's 200 MB of X	21:35
* RST38h is uninstalling OpenOffice and Evolution as we speak		21:35
RST38h	AStorm: There is no 200MB in X libs and headers.	21:36
AStorm	really? check it :>	21:36
AStorm	>100 MB afaicr	21:36
AStorm	qt takes 30 MB	21:37
AStorm	python 15	21:37
AStorm	:>	21:37
RST38h	AStorm: That must be with KDE/GNOME/QT/GTK libs	21:39
RST38h	and I do not need any of those, my target device has got 320x240 screen	21:39
AStorm	nah	21:39
RST38h	In fact, screw X, gimme fb	21:39
AStorm	directfb could use more work	21:39
StsN800	GeneralAntilles, this sunday ideally	21:40
m-c-	Wee - finally have the debian kernel on my n800	21:41
AStorm	which version and how?	21:41
m-c-	Did not realize all the applications and the UI would remain mostly the same.	21:41
*** ignacius has joined #maemo		21:42
*** denny has joined #maemo		21:43
*** benh has joined #maemo		21:43
*** florian has joined #maemo		21:44
*** Pebby has quit IRC		21:47
*** Meizirkki has quit IRC		21:49
solca	StsN800: how can I install newer Mer?	21:49
*** Pebby has joined #maemo		21:50
Meiz_n810	solca: goto qwerty12.maemobox.org/bzr	21:51
Meiz_n810	install the deb	21:51
solca	Meiz_n810: on maemo right?	21:52
*** Free_maN has quit IRC		21:52
qwerty12_N800	untar libz.tar.gz to /usr/lib/python2.5	21:52
Meiz_n810	yes	21:52
*** ciroip_ has joined #maemo		21:52
solca	ok	21:52
Meiz_n810	btw solca, your latest android works really great!	21:53
solca	Meiz_n810: really? I didn't test it much as I discover some new wifi driver bugs	21:53
suihkulokki	m-c-: hmm?	21:54
*** madhav has quit IRC		21:55
solca	Meiz_n810: I saw on the G1 faq that scanning works, I always use it manually configured	21:55
*** vs93taras has joined #maemo		21:55
solca	Meiz_n810: do you see the scanning or you enter it manually?	21:55
*** croppa_ has quit IRC		21:56
*** croppa_ has joined #maemo		21:56
Meiz_n810	solca: manually	21:58
m-c-	suihkulokki: I was hoping the debian install would aid in ogg file playback, but I see now that it is actually using much of the same original front end. I was misinformed by the original person telling me about the project.	21:59
m-c-	Interesting project none-the-less. Would be great if the N800 could eventually share in the same efforts that go into the debian project.	22:00
solca	Meiz_n810: any wishes apart from wifi scanning (which I'm currently working)?	22:02
m-c-	And this seems like it would get the nokia hardware drivers upstream. Has that been really done yet?	22:02
m-c-	Good luck with you own projects.	22:02
*** m-c- has left #maemo		22:02
*** vs93taras has quit IRC		22:04
*** ceyusa has quit IRC		22:07
*** ciroip__ has quit IRC		22:09
*** qgil has joined #maemo		22:10
lardman	hi qgil	22:11
qgil	hi mr lardman :)	22:11
*** caio1982 has quit IRC		22:12
*** StsN800 has quit IRC		22:13
*** konttori_ has quit IRC		22:13
Stskeeps	brr. cold outside	22:15
lardman	what is tribal fusion?	22:15
lardman	~lart them whatever they are for slowing down itt	22:15
* infobot hauls them whatever they are up by the scruff of the neck and spanks him until he waddles for slowing down itt		22:15
*** fredix_ is now known as fredix		22:16
*** zap has quit IRC		22:17
*** zap has joined #maemo		22:17
*** bipolar_ is now known as bipolar		22:18
Stskeeps	lardman: banner stuff maybe	22:18
lardman	yeah, some sort of advert stuff I imagine	22:19
lardman	soon to be gone :)	22:19
lardman	qwerty12_N800: you about?	22:20
lardman	have compiled Qalculate, not tested yet mind you	22:20
qwerty12_N800	lardman, hehe, fingers crossed that we don't get a segfault ;)	22:21
lardman	any C++ debugging gurus about?: http://maemo.pastebin.com/m1dd5529c	22:21
lardman	qwerty12_N800: yeah :(	22:21
lcuk	lardman, is this your own code or just building?	22:22
lardman	just building xcas/giac	22:22
qwerty12_N800	you still use a chinook target? :P	22:23
lcuk	cos it says theres no valid constructor for passing a pointer to, you need to pass by reference or whatever its called	22:23
lardman	qwerty12_N800: me?	22:24
lardman	I don;t think so	22:24
lardman	lcuk: http://dominion.thruhere.net/koen/OE/pvr/	22:24
lardman	qwerty12_N800: or am I?	22:24
*** andre__ has quit IRC		22:24
*** andre__ has joined #maemo		22:24
solca	qwerty12_N800: I finished untaring libz.tar and dpkg -i <the deb>, now what?	22:24
qwerty12_N800	lardman, hehe, it says chinook_armel. unless you went dist-upgrade route from chinook sdk to diablo :)	22:25
Stskeeps	bzr branch lp:~mer-committers/m-r/imager	22:25
lardman	yes I did	22:25
Stskeeps	, solca	22:25
solca	Stskeeps: do I need a partition or somethin?	22:25
qwerty12_N800	solca, i don't know, i just told you that as far as the bzr packages go because they were a quick hack of mine :)	22:25
lardman	qwerty12_N800: ah good, was worried for a mo there	22:25
Meiz_n810	solca: yes	22:25
Stskeeps	solca: this is just the imager scripts for now, you run it with sh imager targets/mer-n800-only-fs /TARGETDIRECTORY	22:26
Stskeeps	where targetdirectory is a ext2/ext3 partition somewhere	22:26
lardman	lcuk: what does this mean?: giac::ref_mpz_t::ref_mpz_t(const __mpz_struct (&)[1])	22:26
Meiz_n810	what is the command to pack up a tar.bz2 ?	22:26
Stskeeps	tar -jxf	22:27
Stskeeps	er	22:27
Stskeeps	jcf	22:27
solca	ok, step by step plz :) first: bzr branch lp:~mer-committers/m-r/imager	22:27
*** andrunko has quit IRC		22:27
lcuk	the & is (ifiak) reference and is different to (*) pointer	22:27
*** GuySoft has quit IRC		22:27
Stskeeps	solca: did you use imager before / debootstrap on tablet / had deblet installing on it	22:27
solca	next: sh imager targets/mer-n800-only-fs /<target>	22:27
Stskeeps	?	22:27
solca	Stskeeps: I have never used imager before	22:27
Stskeeps	k	22:27
solca	I installed deblet with the GUI installer	22:28
solca	os more easy, is there a tar somewhere?	22:28
Stskeeps	then you need md5sum from .. http://trac.tspre.org/svn/deblet/trunk/packages/installer/deblet-installer/usr/libexec/deblet/md5sum , put it in /bin and +x it	22:28
solca	wget "http://trac.tspre.org/svn/deblet/trunk/packages/installer/deblet-installer/usr/libexec/deblet/md5sum"	22:29
Stskeeps	yeah, it's more easy, and no tar yet, i would prefer people to get used to playing with imager as it is a bitch throwing about tar.gz's :P	22:29
lardman	lcuk: this code never compiles correctly, really annoying	22:29
solca	oops sorry... :P	22:29
lcuk	lardman, is it the version of gcc?	22:29
*** mardi__ has joined #maemo		22:29
lardman	solca: :)	22:29
lardman	lcuk: perhaps	22:29
lcuk	what was the build system originally? or dont you know	22:29
solca	Stskeeps: md5sum done	22:29
lardman	supposed to work on every thing from 2.95 to 4.2.0	22:30
Stskeeps	and get debootstrap from ..	22:30
Stskeeps	http://ports.ubuntu.com/pool/main/d/debootstrap/debootstrap_1.0.10ubuntu1_all.deb	22:30
solca	done	22:30
Stskeeps	(dpkg -i it) and then run the imager :P	22:30
Stskeeps	it'll start cooking up the fs then	22:31
solca	dpkg -i done	22:31
solca	run the imager?	22:31
Stskeeps	yeah	22:31
*** t_s_o has quit IRC		22:31
Stskeeps	sh imager targets/mer-n800-only-fs /<target>	22:31
*** mardi__ has quit IRC		22:31
solca	and what about: bzr branch lp:~mer-committers/m-r/imager	22:31
Meiz_n810	do it first	22:32
Stskeeps	yeah	22:32
solca	which one?	22:32
Stskeeps	that gets you the imager directory	22:32
Stskeeps	the bzr branch	22:32
solca	ahh	22:32
solca	that in maemo fs right?	22:32
solca	bzr branch lp:~mer-committers/m-r/imager	22:33
solca	oops again! sorry...	22:33
* solca still is tired...		22:33
* lardman goes to test Qalculate!		22:33
*** lopz has joined #maemo		22:34
Stskeeps	yeah, in maemo fs	22:34
solca	imager	22:34
solca	I can't find imager	22:34
solca	I must +x imager/imager ?	22:35
Stskeeps	cd imager; sh imager targets/mer-n800-only-fs /TARGET	22:35
lardman	qwerty12_N800: sigh same old	22:36
qwerty12_N800	lardman, :(	22:36
lardman	qwerty12_N800: will see what I can work out though	22:36
qwerty12_N800	cool	22:36
lardman	later though, will get into trouble, been on computer too long :)	22:37
*** lardman is now known as lardman\|away		22:37
solca	Stskeeps: http://pastebin.com/m2e245a72	22:37
*** lbt has quit IRC		22:38
*** alex-weej has quit IRC		22:38
RST38h	lardman: Qalculate? =)~~~	22:41
Stskeeps	solca: mer-n800-fs-only, sorry	22:42
solca	it's downloading stuff...	22:42
Stskeeps	yeah, that'll take a while	22:43
Stskeeps	:P	22:43
Stskeeps	it's bootstrapping the system	22:43
solca	is the new ubuntu arm support?	22:43
Stskeeps	yeah, it's based on ubuntu jaunty arm	22:43
*** alex-weej has joined #maemo		22:44
solca	directly from ubuntu? or the others guy?	22:44
solca	mojo	22:45
Stskeeps	directly from ubuntu	22:45
Stskeeps	mojo we used to use	22:45
solca	cool, this wil be ubuntu 9.04 right?	22:45
Stskeeps	yea	22:45
Stskeeps	based on, but butchered a bit	22:45
Stskeeps	then it needs a typical deblet bootmenu with a typical deblet .item :P	22:46
solca	and the fremantle stuff on top of ubuntu?	22:46
solca	using the normal maemo kernel right?	22:46
*** jeez_AWAY has quit IRC		22:47
*** qwerty12_N800 has quit IRC		22:47
Stskeeps	solca: yeah, the mer-n800-onlyfs uses diablo kernel modules (for now)	22:47
Stskeeps	fairly easy to make new targets though	22:47
solca	Stskeeps: and this fetches the Mer debs (based on fremantle I pressume) too ?	22:48
Stskeeps	yeah	22:49
Stskeeps	libhildon and hildon-control-panel and the things we picked up from svn already	22:49
Stskeeps	turns out they were similar to fremantle packages in many cases	22:49
lcuk	oh ship!	22:50
lcuk	i started to code something but i picked up vb instead :'(	22:50
solca	Stskeeps: and what w'll you use for updating? plain apt-get ?	22:50
Stskeeps	solca: for now, apt-get, yeah	22:51
*** mardi__ has joined #maemo		22:51
solca	for now?	22:51
Stskeeps	well the idea of SSU's isn't -that- bad	22:51
solca	what is SSU?	22:51
Stskeeps	seamless software updates	22:52
Stskeeps	the maemo updates	22:52
lcuk	a front end to apt-get	22:52
solca	but it uses apt	22:52
Stskeeps	yeah	22:52
solca	apt sucks for this type of aplications	22:52
solca	I would prefer an image based upgrade	22:52
solca	based on rsync	22:52
Stskeeps	yeah, but that's bound to die with tinkering even worse	22:52
Stskeeps	so	22:54
solca	Stskeeps: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3745	22:54
Stskeeps	solca: \o/	22:55
Stskeeps	that's brilliant news	22:56
*** hannesw_ has joined #maemo		22:56
Stskeeps	the system works!	22:56
solca	haha	22:56
solca	Stskeeps: apt-get install sucks too, there is too much overhead	22:58
solca	Stskeeps: an image based installer will be fast	22:58
Stskeeps	solca: for initial setup, yes	22:59
Stskeeps	i agree on that part, but for now, we need to do quick edits, and we don't have the infrastructure to throw around 256mb images..	23:00
Stskeeps	and update them constantly	23:00
solca	an image updater just will update the newer bits	23:00
solca	not the whole thing	23:00
solca	will waste less b/w too	23:01
solca	and much _much_ faster than anything	23:01
Stskeeps	.. the newer bits = same thing as package updating.. :)	23:01
solca	Stskeeps: nope	23:01
Stskeeps	ok, so you want to make the flash R/O and changes on mmc? :P	23:01
Stskeeps	and update the flash? :P	23:02
solca	because package based is the whole files + scripts, image updating just changes the changed files	23:02
*** qwerty12_N800 has joined #maemo		23:02
AStorm	xdelta?	23:02
solca	is much simpler and efficient	23:02
solca	AStorm: exactly	23:02
solca	just deltas	23:02
Stskeeps	solca: ok, fair enough, but also recipe for disaster	23:02
Stskeeps	:P	23:02
chelli	:)	23:02
AStorm	alternatively, diff :>	23:02
qwerty12_N800	hehe, nspeed in extras-devel is fun; even if hard to control :)	23:03
AStorm	Stskeeps, nah, it is like a full flash	23:03
solca	Stskeeps: with proper checksumming is ok	23:03
AStorm	you patch original image with it	23:03
*** mardi__ has quit IRC		23:03
AStorm	yup	23:03
AStorm	xdelta does checksums	23:03
Stskeeps	ok. its jffs2. there's no way we're going to know where the files are after the user touches it.	23:03
solca	AStorm: does it uses rsync?	23:04
AStorm	exactly	23:04
AStorm	no	23:04
AStorm	it is binary patcher	23:04
solca	Stskeeps: it doesnt matter if it is jffs2	23:04
AStorm	use it for patching old image files	23:04
solca	you changing the file not the filesystem :P	23:04
AStorm	ah	23:04
AStorm	for that, csup is good	23:05
Stskeeps	ok, but a firmware image also includes config files and crap. :P	23:05
AStorm	freebsd uses that for ports	23:05
Stskeeps	and if we're going to do this sanely, we'll end up with dpkg anyway.	23:05
AStorm	this, or some other git	23:05
solca	Stskeeps: it doesnt matter, it will transfer just the changes in the config files for example	23:05
AStorm	those can be used for upgrades	23:05
AStorm	although tree will grow huge with time, so redo it every ondce and then	23:06
solca	Stskeeps: nope dpkg works totally different	23:06
*** eocanha has quit IRC		23:06
Stskeeps	have you seen its conffiles handling lately?	23:06
Stskeeps	and if md5sum is similar of two binary files, dont bother updating	23:07
AStorm	Stskeeps, read gentoos etc-update	23:07
solca	md5 collision is hard to probe, but if that is a concern sha2 could be used	23:07
AStorm	do it that way	23:07
Stskeeps	AStorm: i've been an freebsd user for many years. i know how this works	23:07
AStorm	yup	23:08
qgil	https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1897#c11 is an interesting answer	23:08
AStorm	just blacklist config files	23:08
Stskeeps	qgil: sure xorg contains a omapfb driver? i think it's just xorg framework	23:08
solca	Stskeeps: is package based too as far as I remember	23:08
Stskeeps	in pre-alpha	23:08
Stskeeps	(or i haven't looked closely enough)	23:09
qgil	if you have Xorg questions I'm not the kind of person to have the answers	23:09
solca	AStorm: binary deltas is like normal source patches, it just changes "the differences" _in_a_file_	23:09
Stskeeps	qgil: yeah, was just your comment in the bug :)	23:09
Stskeeps	solca: build a system on top of apt that does binary deltas of deb packages.. same result	23:09
qgil	I just found funny that someone answers to his enhancment request saying that he's going to buy another device - has the G1 mouse support at least?	23:10
Stskeeps	qgil: if you buy a developer license and everything.. maybe	23:10
*** k-s is now known as k-s[AWAY]		23:10
AStorm	solca, yes	23:10
*** ccooke has quit IRC		23:10
*** k-s[AWAY] is now known as k-s		23:11
AStorm	hehehe	23:11
suihkulokki	solca: for imager, youd need a binary delta against the filesystem, not just files	23:11
AStorm	funny, as n8x0 can support mice with just a tiny bit of work	23:11
solca	Stskeeps: not factible as you would need generating deltas agains all packages versions	23:12
AStorm	that being driver + visible pointer	23:12
*** mardi__ has joined #maemo		23:12
Stskeeps	solca: we'd need to anyhow.. in any case, i think the apt+dpkg system is "sane enough" (i don't always agree with it), for the purpose we have	23:12
Stskeeps	i mean, debian hasn't keeled over and died cos of it, and it has done some pretty big release updates..	23:12
Stskeeps	whereas i have seen gentoo keel over .. several times	23:13
*** hannesw_ has quit IRC		23:13
Stskeeps	but im not going into a distribution discussion :)	23:13
suihkulokki	why not? you could go on forever :)	23:14
solca	Stskeeps: you are right, apt-get is proved against anything hehe	23:14
Stskeeps	it is an advantage for Mer to be similar with regards to apt/dpkg, towards upstream, which has a strong debian package connection	23:14
Stskeeps	suihkulokki: yes, and i have other things to do the rest of my life ;)	23:14
solca	Stskeeps: in other news deboostrap is unpacking...	23:15
AStorm	Stskeeps, gentoo had problems when the bugs were found in etc-update... a long long time ago	23:15
Stskeeps	solca: yes, it takes ages	23:15
*** lele has quit IRC		23:16
*** sibbe has quit IRC		23:16
*** inz has quit IRC		23:16
*** andre__ has quit IRC		23:16
*** qgil has quit IRC		23:16
*** croppa_ has quit IRC		23:16
*** ciroip_ has quit IRC		23:16
*** ignacius has quit IRC		23:16
*** practisevoodoo_ has quit IRC		23:16
*** dlmarti has quit IRC		23:16
*** lardman\|away has quit IRC		23:16
*** Dasajev has quit IRC		23:16
*** fie has quit IRC		23:16
*** oli has quit IRC		23:16
*** ijon_ has quit IRC		23:16
*** pH5 has quit IRC		23:16
*** Gracana has quit IRC		23:16
*** z4chh has quit IRC		23:16
*** greentux has quit IRC		23:16
*** bmidgley has quit IRC		23:16
*** ToyKeeper has quit IRC		23:16
*** yerga has quit IRC		23:16
*** Navi has quit IRC		23:16
*** alextreme has quit IRC		23:16
*** l7 has quit IRC		23:16
*** Mek has quit IRC		23:16
*** robtaylor has quit IRC		23:16
*** \|thunder has quit IRC		23:16
*** abinader has quit IRC		23:16
Stskeeps	AStorm: and there's similar etc-update things for dpkg.. when there's edited a conffile, it asks on upgrade similar to freebsd/gentoo	23:16
AStorm	yes	23:16
Stskeeps	ok, back to wiki editing :P	23:17
*** jeward has joined #maemo		23:17
*** andre__ has joined #maemo		23:17
*** qgil has joined #maemo		23:17
*** croppa_ has joined #maemo		23:17
*** ciroip_ has joined #maemo		23:17
*** ignacius has joined #maemo		23:17
*** lardman\|away has joined #maemo		23:17
*** fie has joined #maemo		23:17
*** pH5 has joined #maemo		23:17
*** abinader has joined #maemo		23:17
*** lele has joined #maemo		23:17
*** Gracana has joined #maemo		23:17
*** ijon_ has joined #maemo		23:17
*** greentux has joined #maemo		23:17
*** yerga has joined #maemo		23:17
*** z4chh has joined #maemo		23:17
*** dlmarti has joined #maemo		23:17
*** alextreme has joined #maemo		23:17
*** Mek has joined #maemo		23:17
*** inz has joined #maemo		23:17
*** practisevoodoo_ has joined #maemo		23:17
*** \|thunder has joined #maemo		23:17
*** Navi has joined #maemo		23:17
*** sibbe has joined #maemo		23:17
*** robtaylor has joined #maemo		23:17
*** l7 has joined #maemo		23:17
*** oli has joined #maemo		23:17
*** ToyKeeper has joined #maemo		23:17
*** bmidgley has joined #maemo		23:17
*** Dasajev has joined #maemo		23:17
AStorm	heck, I use that part of dpkg almost daily :>	23:17
jeward	So , my n810 has developed some update problems. Anyone else have packages that won't update?	23:17
Stskeeps	jeward: verify you don't have extras-devel and sdk in your repositories	23:18
jeward	Checking.	23:18
Stskeeps	or tools, for that sake	23:18
AStorm	tools should work :>	23:18
Stskeeps	ideally :P	23:18
jeward	Stskeeps: Maemo extras okay?	23:19
Stskeeps	jeward: should be	23:20
jeward	Stskeeps: Test maemo Extras?	23:20
jeward	Er, Testing	23:20
Stskeeps	sounds like extras-devel? :P	23:21
AStorm	...	23:21
jeward	Should I get rid of it and try updating again?	23:21
Stskeeps	can't harm :)	23:21
AStorm	extras-devel has a known update bug	23:21
Meiz_n810	jeward testing extras is extras-devel	23:21
Meiz_n810	remove that	23:21
*** chelli has quit IRC		23:22
jeward	Removed and trying to update again.	23:22
*** lele has quit IRC		23:23
*** sibbe has quit IRC		23:23
*** inz has quit IRC		23:23
*** practisevoodoo_ has quit IRC		23:23
*** dlmarti has quit IRC		23:23
*** lardman\|away has quit IRC		23:23
*** qgil has quit IRC		23:23
*** ciroip_ has quit IRC		23:23
*** Dasajev has quit IRC		23:23
*** fie has quit IRC		23:23
*** ignacius has quit IRC		23:23
*** oli has quit IRC		23:23
*** ijon_ has quit IRC		23:23
*** pH5 has quit IRC		23:23
*** Gracana has quit IRC		23:23
*** z4chh has quit IRC		23:23
*** greentux has quit IRC		23:23
*** bmidgley has quit IRC		23:23
*** ToyKeeper has quit IRC		23:23
*** andre__ has quit IRC		23:23
*** yerga has quit IRC		23:23
*** Navi has quit IRC		23:23
*** alextreme has quit IRC		23:23
*** l7 has quit IRC		23:23
*** Mek has quit IRC		23:23
*** robtaylor has quit IRC		23:23
*** \|thunder has quit IRC		23:23
*** abinader has quit IRC		23:23
*** croppa_ has quit IRC		23:23
lcuk	jeward, would you stop trying to update, you keep breaking my internet	23:23
AStorm	split town :P	23:23
jeward	:)	23:23
AStorm	:P	23:23
jeward	My n810 is ALL powerful!	23:23
*** andrewfblack has quit IRC		23:24
*** melmoth has quit IRC		23:24
*** chmac has joined #maemo		23:25
r2d2rogers	caught ups	23:25
jeward	I also have a bunch of repositories that won't refresh, I should delete them too?	23:25
r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: do I neef to grab a fresher imager before I kick off on a 770?	23:25
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: nop, havent touched it since last really	23:26
Stskeeps	it should install now	23:26
* Stskeeps curses wikis and tab closing		23:27
r2d2rogers	cool	23:27
r2d2rogers	thank you	23:27
Stskeeps	solca: i guess i won't have to tell you about the rescue menu to active console? (only way for X to work atm)	23:28
* r2d2rogers wishes he had not left his bt keyboard at home, or at least, that the backdoor tunnel via ssh would work right on his 770		23:28
*** andre__ has joined #maemo		23:29
*** qgil has joined #maemo		23:29
*** croppa_ has joined #maemo		23:29
*** ciroip_ has joined #maemo		23:29
*** ignacius has joined #maemo		23:29
*** lardman\|away has joined #maemo		23:29
*** fie has joined #maemo		23:29
*** pH5 has joined #maemo		23:29
*** abinader has joined #maemo		23:29
*** lele has joined #maemo		23:29
*** Gracana has joined #maemo		23:29
*** ijon_ has joined #maemo		23:29
*** greentux has joined #maemo		23:29
*** yerga has joined #maemo		23:29
*** z4chh has joined #maemo		23:29
*** dlmarti has joined #maemo		23:29
*** alextreme has joined #maemo		23:29
*** Mek has joined #maemo		23:29
*** inz has joined #maemo		23:29
*** practisevoodoo_ has joined #maemo		23:29
*** \|thunder has joined #maemo		23:29
*** Navi has joined #maemo		23:29
*** sibbe has joined #maemo		23:29
*** robtaylor has joined #maemo		23:29
*** l7 has joined #maemo		23:29
*** oli has joined #maemo		23:29
*** ToyKeeper has joined #maemo		23:29
*** bmidgley has joined #maemo		23:29
*** Dasajev has joined #maemo		23:29
r2d2rogers	stupid work firewall and non-working internal WLAN	23:29
jeward	Some application packages required for the update are missing. (libdb4.2)	23:29
jeward	lobglade2-0	23:29
jeward	Er. lib	23:29
jeward	makedev	23:30
jeward	Operating System	23:30
solca	Stskeeps: understood, it just finished...	23:30
lardman\|away	and the rejoin :)	23:30
lardman\|away	qgil: not enough time spent on irc ;)	23:31
*** ^Tux^ has joined #maemo		23:31
jeward	Do those three sound familiar to anyone with regard to upgrade issues?	23:31
AStorm	libdb sounds like one	23:32
*** zakkm has joined #maemo		23:32
jeward	Which repo should I try deleting next?	23:32
solca	Stskeeps: and when fremantle get released, Mer base will be ubuntu or fremantle based?	23:33
lcuk	jeward, disabled anything not nokia or maemo.org specific	23:33
lcuk	-d	23:33
jeward	Okie.	23:33
Stskeeps	solca: well technically it's both.. the idea of mer is also to reconstruct the system	23:33
lcuk	seems the most logical approach initially	23:33
Stskeeps	and see what we can do as community if we had our hands free to do what needs to be done	23:34
*** pH5 has quit IRC		23:34
Stskeeps	solca: .. that's a pet peeve of mine, and one of my motivations for being in this	23:34
*** chelli has joined #maemo		23:35
Stskeeps	i don't want it to be ubuntu, i want it to be whatever upstream mangled to work well with mobile devices.. and have a sane ability towards porting from desktop distributions :)	23:35
solca	ok, I though we were using ubuntu base because fremantle packages were not ready	23:35
Stskeeps	and i think a child of ubuntu and fremantle will do that trick	23:35
solca	right	23:36
Stskeeps	no, the maemo reconstructed thoughts came before starting to think about fremantle sdk that much :P	23:36
Stskeeps	now we just have an increased purpose, so	23:36
*** juergbi has quit IRC		23:37
solca	well, I had the wrong perception that Mer was a repacking of fremantle for n8x0 devices	23:37
*** yerga_tablet has joined #maemo		23:37
Stskeeps	solca: depends what you define as fremantle really	23:37
solca	fremantle: as packages published by nokia	23:38
solca	mer = fremantle for n8x00	23:38
solca	but that's inacurate	23:38
Stskeeps	my goal is mer is the maemo reconstructed idea, with fremantle packages taken in where it makes sense	23:39
Stskeeps	and some things changed based on community need	23:39
solca	Stskeeps: thats pretty cool!	23:39
Stskeeps	but this is just my own personal thoughts, we'll discuss harder when we have the first meeting :P	23:39
solca	k	23:39
jeward	Okay, now I still have 3 problem packages: makedev, libglade2-0 and libdb4.2	23:41
jeward	Any ideas?	23:41
Stskeeps	tools?	23:41
jeward	Application packages missing all end in osso?	23:41
jeward	Stskeeps: What do you mean: tools?	23:42
Stskeeps	tools repository or something	23:42
Stskeeps	brb	23:42
jeward	Checking.	23:42
qwerty12_N800	What os version is your device? Chinook or Diablo?	23:42
jeward	Diablo.	23:42
zakkm	wouldnt they do fremantle hacker edition, ? lol	23:43
zakkm	why is everyone saying no n8xx support	23:43
jeward	Maemo Hackers?	23:43
qwerty12_N800	jeward, Do any of your distribution lines in app mgr's catalogues contain the word chinook?	23:43
jeward	Maemo CJK?	23:43
*** MoRpHeUz has quit IRC		23:43
jeward	Yes.	23:43
jeward	Delete the Chinooks?	23:43
qwerty12_N800	disable them	23:43
qwerty12_N800	or delete them if you wish	23:44
Stskeeps	zakkm: not sane financially, and HE was done by idle nokia employees	23:44
Stskeeps	afaik	23:44
zakkm	that would so suck then	23:44
zakkm	is it definite fremantle wont work?	23:44
lcuk	it looks like a CE version is more likely this time :)	23:44
zakkm	i bought my nokia hoping for fremantle, though diablo was new too	23:44
Stskeeps	yes, but that's what Mer is for.. bringing the fremantle parts to n8x0	23:44
zakkm	my old 770 didnt like bora/chinook well :P lol	23:44
Stskeeps	.. and for other purposes	23:45
*** Grackle has quit IRC		23:45
jeward	Okay, that got rid of makedev,	23:45
zakkm	you know the n800, it has a 3d uhh card right?	23:45
*** Grackle has joined #maemo		23:45
jeward	Down to: libglade2-0, libdb4.2.	23:45
lcuk	why would anyone buy a device now to use on updated hardware - if you knew enough to know what fremantle was you would have known also the spec upgrades expected	23:45
zakkm	hardware acceleration, but no software	23:45
Stskeeps	zakkm: which we don't have drives for..	23:45
Stskeeps	:P	23:45
zakkm	yes	23:45
Stskeeps	drivers	23:45
zakkm	but wouldnt it be in fremantle sdk?	23:45
zakkm	or fremantle release	23:45
Stskeeps	nop, different chip,	23:45
Stskeeps	ours is a MBX, theirs is a SGX	23:46
zakkm	cant someone like edit to to fit?	23:46
zakkm	or no?	23:46
Stskeeps	we'll see i guess	23:46
zakkm	oh okay, just wondering	23:46
zakkm	so the fremantle release basically means nothing to n8xx users? :P	23:46
Stskeeps	oh, it means a lot of things to us	23:46
Stskeeps	go read iTT, quite a heated up discussion, but a lot of interesting points too	23:46
zakkm	i saw the uhh	23:47
zakkm	main topic, but i havnet had time to read posts yet	23:47
zakkm	i saw it on engadget originally	23:47
zakkm	and it pointed to maemo.org	23:47
lcuk	almost exactly one year now for me :)	23:47
Stskeeps	but anyway, we've gotten a invitation from nokia that is quite unseen in open source circles	23:47
Stskeeps	when dealing with vendor OS'es	23:48
Stskeeps	unseen as in, a very bloody nice thing	23:48
zakkm	they sell out so fast	23:48
zakkm	the tablets	23:48
Stskeeps	i want a rx-51/n900 just so i can drool over it	23:48
Stskeeps	:P	23:48
lcuk	nokia:: PLEASE supply bibs and drip trays	23:49
zakkm	:D	23:49
zakkm	n900 is it ?	23:49
zakkm	like officially	23:49
lcuk	dunno	23:49
lcuk	rx-51 appears to be the model number	23:49
Stskeeps	or maybe just a devel board	23:49
*** Grackle has quit IRC		23:50
lcuk	* rx-51: added waterproofing to case	23:50
Stskeeps	hehe	23:50
jeward	Okay, now all I have is a 0kb Operating System update that never goes away.	23:50
Stskeeps	that's fine	23:50
jeward	Should I just reflash it?	23:50
jeward	Oh, okay.	23:50
qgil	GeneralAntilles: one bug for all the inappropriate @maemo.org addresses is enough, don't you think?	23:50
jeward	What repos SHOULD I have minimally?	23:50
jeward	All I have now are Nokia.	23:51
lcuk	then all is good :) nokia default tableteer ones as well as maemo.org diablo extras is most ideal for users	23:51
lcuk	once you go off the beaten track and start adding extra repos you run into conflicts like you encountered	23:52
jeward	lcuk: Where can I find the info to rebuild my repo list?	23:52
*** mardi__ has quit IRC		23:52
* jeward followed some article and added everything under the sun.		23:53
Stskeeps	mm, extras is all you need, and optionally extras-devel, these days	23:53
Stskeeps	and nokia repos	23:53
lcuk	that article needs flushing down the toilet :)	23:53
zakkm	maemo.org repo?	23:53
jeward	Do I populate it from cliking on links? I don't remember.	23:53
*** housetier_ has joined #maemo		23:53
zakkm	lcuk: whats maemo.org repo?	23:53
zakkm	i just have the default + extras enabled and extras-devel	23:54
lcuk	http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras	23:54
zakkm	how much do you guys think the rx-51 will cost?	23:54
lcuk	no	23:54
lcuk	-devel shouldnt be used by default	23:54
zakkm	it is for me	23:55
zakkm	it always is	23:55
zakkm	just like i use sid for debian, and stuff	23:55
zakkm	and nightly's for browsers ;p	23:55
lcuk	then you know how to handle yourself - i wasnt talking to you :P	23:55
zakkm	oh sorry	23:56
jeward	Okay, got maemo extras.	23:56
zakkm	lcuk: still no luck on the pdf support for liqbase?	23:56
lcuk	my fault actually - i thought i was still chattin to jeward..	23:56
jeward	I'm listening. :-)	23:56
jeward	Whoa, lots of updates now!	23:56
*** housetier has quit IRC		23:57
jeward	I think my updates have been broken a while. :-)	23:57
lcuk	zakkm, ive got nothing right now on device. im rebuilding a lot of stuff which i threw up whilst learning, ive knocked it down to give me an even stronger base (which will also make it easier to have 2 branches - diablo+fremantle) :)	23:57
zakkm	fremantle is so far away though ;p	23:58
jeward	Uhoh, the libdb4.2 is back. :(	23:58
jeward	Seems to be part of claws?	23:59
lcuk	zakkm, if i leave it as it is i cannto do what i really want: add transparent rotation support	23:59
jeward	Now libxml2.	23:59
zakkm	transparent rotation support?	23:59

Generated by irclog2html.py 2.15.1 by Marius Gedminas - find it at mg.pov.lt!