IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2008-12-04

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winston_hi, does anyone have a guess when the successor to the n810 will be in stores?00:00
GeneralAntilleswinston_, total guesswork: Summer 2009.00:01
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Scumgrief_Oh Hi general - I know you from the ITT forums00:02
GeneralAntillesI'm everywhere. :P00:03
Scumgrief_I really don't think there is a device better suited for me than the n810, for its like a low power linux pocket machine00:03
Scumgrief_as it seems you are everywhere =P00:03
`0660i don't think he ever sleeps00:04
Scumgrief_would you recommend a go everywhere machine the size of the n810 or smaller that is linux based other than the n810?00:05
GeneralAntilles`0660, not this evening, anyway. <_<00:05
Scumgrief_yeah, he seems to not sleep00:05
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* GeneralAntilles updates wiki pages and triages some bugs.00:06
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`0660Scumgrief_, i think it depends00:06
`0660the smaller the device is, the more portable it is. in the other hand, the smalle the device is, the more limited it is00:06
Scumgrief_like the size of the n81000:07
Scumgrief_i mean pocktable00:07
`0660it's big compared to mobile phone, and small compared to a netbook00:07
`0660very small00:07
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Scumgrief_yeah, I did have an EEE PC but that was too limiting, i couldn't run it off batt very long, nor could I use it on the go00:08
Scumgrief_a netbook i will get when I get a job lol00:08
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`0660i think mobile phone, internet tablet, netbook, and desktop all have their own slot to fill00:12
Scumgrief_yeah, i agree.00:12
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ProteousI want a mobile phone + internet tablet device combo that doesn't suck00:31
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Proteouser, combo device, not device combo00:32
qwerty12_N8003310 + 770 = the shit00:32
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`0660Proteous, who knows, n900 might be able to make calls :)00:34
ProteousI'm sorta lusting after the new n9700:35
GeneralAntillesVoIP, surely.00:36
Proteouscould be cool or could suck00:36
GeneralAntillesBut definitely not cellular voice.00:36
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Proteousnot sure if it will ever make it to the states though...00:36
`0660i guess voip might actually work ok00:36
Proteousheh00:36
`0660because of the 3g stack...00:36
qwerty12_N800Proteous, probably would on t-mobile or at&t00:37
Proteousright now I pair up my n810 with my pantech c150 which works well but it's a lot to carry around00:37
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disco_stuwow the n97 i sooo cool00:39
ProteousI like that the screen is at least somewhat high rez00:39
Proteousneed to be able to fit more then 3 lines of an ssh session on there for it to be a usefull device to me :)00:40
Stskeepswhat century are you in that 640x350(sp) is high res? :P00:40
Proteousfor a phone it's not bad00:40
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Proteousit's not 800x480 like my n810 but that's okay, it's a narrower device00:41
disco_stuwell in real use it doesn perform like in the nokia demo00:41
Proteousthere are some hands on videos00:41
disco_stuyeah, i just saw them00:41
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disco_stuthe ui is slow00:43
disco_stuand buggy00:43
`0660i thought they still ahd 6 months to fix bugs?00:44
`0660had00:44
Proteousyeah00:44
derfdisco_stu: You've just described every hand-held deivce ever.00:44
Stskeepsoh, that's an interesting hinge00:44
disco_studerf: iphone is the opposite00:45
disco_stuand it is a handheld device00:45
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Proteous640x350 is way better then the iphone 480x320 iphone screen00:45
Proteouser, -iphone#200:45
solcaping Stskeeps00:47
Stskeepspong solca?00:47
solcaStskeeps: Hi, I have an idea about a new kind of installer and I would like to know what do you  think about it00:47
solcaand if it could be useful for your reconstructed stuff00:48
Stskeeps*nod* i'm all ears00:48
solcathe thing is that I port the Android OS to my N810 using the omap head tree (2.6.28-rc6)00:49
solcaand I even have WiFi working00:49
woglindesolca what are you porting kernel only?00:49
solcabut everything works with this kernel00:49
solcawoglinde: userspace too00:49
Stskeepssolca: oh, you're with those nth.. something people?00:49
solcaStskeeps: no00:50
Stskeepsah00:50
* GeneralAntilles is now hungry.00:50
solcaI did it myself not knowing about them00:50
Stskeepshehe, quite an effort then00:50
solcaI read today in the forum that they did something similar00:50
solcabut with 2.6.2500:50
woglindehm dont know how well fb will work on the nxx00:50
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solcaI try that way but was painful so I use the 2.6.27 android kernel branch and port it to 2.6.28 so Wifi works00:51
l7hmm00:51
solcabut I was wondering about a new kind of installer00:51
solcathis is my idea, please correct me or comment about it:00:51
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: do you know if it is possible to modify behaviour of d-pad within the browser00:51
GeneralAntillesdisco_stu, yes, there's a bug with a .deb that'll do it for you even.00:51
derfdisco_stu: A quick Google suggests that your opinion of the iPhone is not unanimous: http://www.appleinsider.com/articles/08/07/18/iphone_3g_and_2_0_affected_by_buggy_software_sensors_wireless.html00:52
solcaminimal kernel and minimal userspace based on my omap port for openwrt00:52
GeneralAntillesdisco_stu, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=242300:52
solcathis kernel + userspace needs to fit in the 2MB kernel partition00:52
GeneralAntillesand with that, I am officially Maemoed-out for the day. . . .00:52
solcathis kernel would be kexec capable00:53
solcaand with a UI based on... let me find it...00:53
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: thanks Ryan00:53
woglindesolca hm klibc00:53
solcaopenwrt used uclibc00:54
woglindekexec image in oe is klibc based00:54
Stskeepssolca: so basically a glorified bootloader i guess?00:55
Stskeeps(have you had kexec work, btw?)00:55
solcawoglinde: kexec is a kernel feature + userspace that talks to the kernel via /proc00:55
woglindesolca yes00:55
* solca can't find the UI url00:55
woglindethe goal of the kexec image is that you can choose your kernel from either internal flash or sd card or whatever devices you have00:56
solcathe thing is that this UI is used for a bootselector in the playstation 3 with openwrt for PS300:56
solcawoglinde: exactly!00:56
woglindeyepp00:56
solcaand this UI is very nice00:56
solcaeven it detects bootable images from usb when connected00:57
solcaand reacts apropriately00:57
solcaso I was thinking about doing this for my android port00:57
solcaand can be useful for the maemo reconstructed and deblet too00:57
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Stskeepsthis something you could see being multi-platform, too?00:58
solcaso one can choose which partition boot00:58
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woglindejeep sounds nice00:58
woglindeand do not touches the bootloader00:58
solcain this way one could boot to the normal maemo, or to deblet or whatever00:58
Stskeepssolca: http://ozlabs.org/~jk/projects/petitboot/ ?00:58
solcait just touch the kernel particion00:58
solcaexactly00:58
solcabut modified for the N81000:59
woglindeshouldnt be this hard00:59
Stskeepssolca: can i ask again, have you had kexec working on n810?00:59
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solcaI have it my running kernel but I didnt try it00:59
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solcais there something I should know about it?01:00
Stskeepsalright, guess it's worth looking into, - i've heard of some problems getting it to work but it might have changed in newer kernels01:00
solcathe "bootselector" could be any kernel as long as it can read from storage and boot the other kernels01:01
solcabut now that you mention in I'll take a look01:01
solcaso what do you guys think about this plan?01:01
solcathe hard part is fit everything in 2MB01:02
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woglindesolca not really01:03
Stskeepswell. in my new, if we have to do it "right", it shouldn't be limited to n8x0 platforms. as in, it should be possible to port it to x86, other armel devices etc01:03
woglindeusing klibc or dietlibc it should work01:03
Stskeepsnew=view01:03
woglindewith ugly curses interface01:03
woglindeStskeeps in openembedded some guys working on it with klibc for the zaurii01:04
Stskeepssolca: and there should be elements of rescue menu stuff in it01:04
solcaStskeeps: like the deblet rescue menu?01:04
* solca must say that he loves the deblet rescue menu01:05
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solcait help me a lot when I was figuring out how all the stuff was structured01:05
Stskeepskinda like that, but in terms of restoring images from mmc, / exposing internal flash to USB, etc01:05
Stskeepsmaybe boot options for OS'es01:05
woglindeif there is place01:06
Stskeepsyeah :P01:06
woglindethe image should contain ubifs stuff01:06
woglindethat would be nice01:06
solcaStskeeps: the nice thing is that at least for me wifi works reliably with the new driver01:06
woglindesolca is wpa_suplicant working now?01:06
solcawoglinde: I was using it (ubifs) but its very hard to make a partition image01:06
solcawoglinde: yes01:06
woglindeah cool01:06
Stskeepssolca: you did look into Mer i presume?01:07
solcayes I have a very early tar installed01:07
woglindeso you could set all the cool stuffup with guessnet if/up down and wpa_suplicant01:07
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solcaStskeeps: I have it installed but I lost a month with android01:08
solcaStskeeps: but it is very nice and I think it could benefit from a bootselector and installer like this01:08
Stskeepssolca: alright - well, if you would like to, try to make a writeup for a "boot selector"/rescue/device behaviour thing in http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint#Appendixes , and how you would like to see a distribution-agnostic "init phase"01:08
Stskeepsjust make a section calling it "Draft"01:09
woglindesolca hm why is it so hard with ubifs?01:09
Stskeepsthere's a draft on system architecture already, you may draw some ideas from there01:09
solcaStskeeps: I write too a maemo initilizer script which runs all the proprietary stuff too01:10
woglindehahah01:10
woglindeUBIFS is a new flash file system developed by Nokia engineers01:10
woglindeso fremantle must have ubifs on internal flash01:10
Stskeepsheh, didn't know that01:10
woglindeotherwise01:10
solcawoglinde: I didnt try to hard to make it work but there is the ubifs and another layer to make it work01:11
Stskeepswoglinde: do consider they also have a openwrt-home gateway thing01:11
woglindereading the ubifs site right now01:12
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Stskeepssolca: and if you have some ideas on how vendors could support multiple distributions and aiding this part, it's also interesting01:12
Stskeepsit is kinda nice to show a device you can show booting android if you want, mer/hildon if you want, ubuntu mobile, .. windows 3.1101:13
Stskeeps:P01:13
solcaStskeeps: exactly that would be nice01:14
solcahere it is the proprietary laucher I wrote for android01:14
StskeepsMer/Reconstructured is not only for the distribution, but also making a foundation for tablet like devices01:14
solcabut could be useful for other things01:14
solcahttp://guug.org/nitboot.txt01:14
solcaits basic now but can be improved01:15
Stskeepsyeah, looks similar to what initfs does01:15
solcathe idea is to not boot to initfs01:15
Stskeepsyeah, i know, it's more of an initrd like system01:15
Stskeepssolca: you're missing out on dyntick stuff btw01:16
Stskeepsin that script01:16
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solcaStskeeps: yea, because android do it in it's init part01:16
Stskeepsah01:16
solcabut can be added to and not do it in android01:16
solcaso I was thinking about using this "boot selector" as installer too01:17
Stskeepsyou have jaiku per chance? (if not, msg me your e-mail and you'll get an invite.), that way you can track the development of Mer, which may have implications for you too01:17
Stskeepsfor imaging purposes or?01:18
solcamy idea was embedd a minimal initramfs with the kernel and flash it to the "kernel" partition01:18
solcaand this initramfs ideally use the petitboot and could install deblet, android maemo-recontructed etc01:18
solcathe limiting part is the 2MB in the partition01:19
woglindesolca 2mb is lot of space01:19
solcaStskeeps: my email is solca@guug.org01:19
Stskeepsinvited01:19
solcawoglinde: depends: my playstation3 have 8MB so petitboot have a lot of space01:19
solcaStskeeps: thank you01:20
solcawoglinde: but my WRT54GL have just 4MB and I have a WRT54G which just have 2MB01:20
Stskeepssolca: well. noone says we can't use a initfs in some generic fashion, even if it would switch between kernels01:20
solcaStskeeps: for having more space so you say?01:21
Stskeepsyeah01:21
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solcaStskeeps: but where?01:21
solcaI dont want to touch initfs and rootfs01:21
Stskeepswell. i guess i have the luxury of being able to ignore old time stuff01:22
solcaand one bootselector installer for rule them all01:22
solcaall the projects (deblet,android,maemor)01:22
solcaStskeeps: well normal people want to swithc between oses01:23
Stskeepsyeah, obviously01:23
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Stskeepsso, if i looked at it cynically, having a kexec capable kernel, a bootmenu initfs that could do kexec, would do similar things?01:23
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solcaStskeeps: I presume01:24
solcamy idea was not touch initfs and rootfs because there already is the proprietary software01:25
solcaso with the nitboot script I could launch that software without distributing it01:25
Stskeeps*nod*01:25
solcaand not violationg some EULA01:25
Stskeepswell, things might change a bit eventually regarding remixing and "variants"01:25
solcaStskeeps: but ideally if I could rewrite initfs that would be owesome01:26
Stskeepsi'm mostly talking from point of view that we can break down any walls we want, as we are building the "new" platfor01:26
Stskeepsm01:26
solcado you redistribute proprietary stuff with deblet?01:27
Stskeepsnop01:27
Stskeepswe do two tricks: 1) we don't distribute any images of installed deblet 2) deblet is entirely bootstrapped and everything on tablet 3) we retrieve some blobs in same manner as a SSU would01:28
solcagood, but the new wifi driver needs a proprietary tool that is not even distributed with diablo right now01:28
Stskeeps(by apt. and authenticating our model number)01:28
Stskeepsoh, i have a creative script for that..01:28
Stskeepssc01:28
solcaStskeeps: excellent01:29
Stskeepshttp://trac.tspre.org/svn/deblet/trunk/packages/non-free/stlc45xx-cal/debian/postinst01:29
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solcaStskeeps: hmm thats the kind of stuff that I don't like but I think it is necessary01:30
Stskeepsyeah01:30
Stskeeps:P01:30
Stskeeps(don't edit this so the user invisibly answers yes, it is better to keep nokia happy in terms of binary blobs.)01:30
Scumgrief_wifi driver on maemo for n810 is propietary?01:31
solcaStskeeps: congrats, clever script I must say01:31
solcaStskeeps: can I use it in the Android port?01:31
derfScumgrief_: Do you know of a wifi driver that _doesn't_ contain a binary blob?01:32
Stskeepssolca: go ahead, my only "demand"/wish is that you ask the user to agree to this license01:32
Scumgrief_derf:  I wish01:32
woglindederf in whole or for maemo?01:32
derfwoglinde: Yes.01:32
woglinde???01:32
woglindemadwifi and athereos are now without bin blob01:32
derfReally?01:33
Scumgrief_i could say that lol01:33
derf(also, why are those two separate things?)01:33
Scumgrief_derf:  different authors i think..01:33
woglindederf history01:33
woglindemadwifi was the frist01:33
derfI had an atheros card 2~3 years ago... it worked for about 15 minutes, and then never again.01:33
woglindethen atheros vendor hires a driver hacker01:34
solcaStskeeps: so does deblet or maemo-r have a special req for the kernel?01:34
derfI tried getting into the driver to figure out why, but gave up.01:34
woglindeand now the open up the bin blob too01:34
Stskeepssolca: nada right now01:34
Stskeepssolca: my focus is on Mer these days. deblet is hard to make sane wrt power saving01:34
derfNow I just make sure not to buy machines with Atheros cards.01:34
solcaStskeeps: yea, I would like to help a lot with mer but I'm busy with android but01:35
solcawe can benefit for an improved installer/bootselector01:35
Stskeepssolca: yeah.. as said before, initial device initialization is a field we can cooperate on01:36
Stskeepswe don't want reboot loops in either mer or android, obviously :P01:36
solcayea :)01:36
solcaStskeeps: ok so I'll work on this stuff and will ping you when I have something01:37
Stskeepsalso, mer's focus is not just on n8x0/770/n900, we look towards how it's possible to make maemo more of a generic platform01:37
solcahopefully this weekend01:37
Stskeepsso it's worth thinking that into01:37
Stskeepsalright. #reconstructedPOC on jaiku is what we do01:37
solcaStskeeps: excellent, I will port petitboot and try kexecing a kernel and when that works01:38
Stskeeps*nod*01:38
solcaI'll ping you so we can cooperate in the installing/initiliazing stuff01:38
* Stskeeps ponders how maemo would be like on a PS3..01:38
Stskeeps:P01:38
solcaStskeeps: that would be very insteresting!01:39
GeneralAntillesCrazy fast?01:39
Stskeepscell-accelerated? :P01:39
solcaStskeeps: well if something can benefit from vector processing, sure01:40
lcukif maemo was on a cell processor we would still not have access to most of the cores01:40
solcaStskeeps: but in general maemo on the ps3 would be very nice01:40
lcuksolca, wouldnt it get a bit tiring carrying around a ps3 and a screen?01:40
GeneralAntilleslcuk, home theater. . . .01:41
solcalcuk: why? the linux port uses all cores except one01:41
solcalcuk: :) yea that would be tiring...01:41
lcuksolca, we cannot use all cores on the current processor, what makes you tihnk the cell will be any different :P01:41
solcalcuk: define what you mean about current processor01:42
lcukomap242001:43
lcukofc..01:43
GeneralAntilleslcuk, stop being silly. <_<01:43
Stskeepsalright, i'm off to bed01:43
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i still want to see maemo on a wii.. :P01:43
GeneralAntilleslcuk, the two things aren't even vaguely analogous.01:43
solcaStskeeps: then we could port maemo-r to the iphone when the kernel matures a bit too ;)01:43
* lcuk reaffirms his sarcasm tag :P:P:P ^01:44
GeneralAntillesText fails at sarcasm. :P01:44
Stskeepssolca: for good measure we call maemo-r proof of concept mer, as it's not maemo and there's trademark issues :)01:45
Stskeepsbbl01:45
solcaoh01:45
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lopzjohnx, I could not send commands from another application to control the player, Kaguya, mediaplayer, I could do to help?02:07
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practisevoodoowhats the easiest way to wipe an n810 back to factory state?02:28
Proteousreflash?02:29
practisevoodoourg02:30
practisevoodoothanks02:32
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Scumgrief_I wish I had a n810 =-[02:47
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disco_stuGeneralAntilles: i have a problem03:26
disco_stuneed help03:26
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* GeneralAntilles has many problems.03:26
disco_stulol03:27
GeneralAntillesFirst and foremost, it's fscking cold in here. . . . :shiver:03:27
disco_stuwell.. my problem is that after booting web browser doesnt work03:27
GeneralAntillesUpdating... ?03:27
disco_stuyeah03:27
disco_stui have to manually restart the deamon03:28
GeneralAntillesEvery reboot?03:28
GeneralAntillesDunno03:28
GeneralAntillesDon't reboot? :P03:28
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l7how do you fix memory leaks without rebooting?03:28
GeneralAntillesWhat memory leaks?03:29
l7not sure which program it was03:29
disco_stuand the .deb for scrolling with d-pad didnt work03:29
l7i managed to bring the system down to the point where no applications could be open even though i had shut everything down03:29
disco_stul7: after closing the program with the leaks, the SO should be able to automatically recover memory03:29
l7yeah, i'd pretty much closed everything03:30
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: any help ?03:30
l7maybe it was one of the applets03:30
GeneralAntillesdisco_stu, dunno.03:30
disco_studamn03:30
disco_stuwhy does it says updating.. ?03:31
disco_stushit without the browser i'm lost03:31
lcukdisco_stu, if qwerty were here he would tell you how to fix it03:32
lcukhold on ill see if i can dig out what he said03:32
disco_stuok03:32
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lcukdisco_stu, you already know the answer lol03:35
disco_sturestarting ?03:35
disco_stuor flashin ?03:35
lcukmy google brought me back to mariuses log of 2 minutes ago :P restart the daemon thing03:36
lcuknot the machine03:36
disco_stuyeah, what i did03:36
disco_stubut it is stupid03:36
disco_stui cant restart it all the time03:36
lcukqwerty12lcuk, if it's still not coming, as root: /etc/init.d/tablet-browser-daemon force-reload03:36
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disco_studamn03:37
disco_stuim so disappointed03:37
lcukim goin back to bed anyway, gnite03:38
disco_stuthanks anyway03:38
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disco_studammit stupid browser03:42
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disco_stuGeneralAntilles: i fixed it03:52
disco_stuif someone has this problem i can help out :)03:53
GeneralAntillesWas it from that dpad deb?03:56
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disco_stuand it has to be at s9904:07
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: did you read me ?04:08
GeneralAntillesI got "[9:07pm] <disco_stu> and it has to be at s99"04:08
GeneralAntillesDid you disable browserd at some point?04:08
GeneralAntillesPerhaps with the services control panel applet?04:09
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disco_stui killed it once04:09
GeneralAntillesHow?04:09
disco_stukillall -904:09
disco_stusince then it stopped working04:09
GeneralAntillesHuh04:09
disco_stui had to move it from s20 to s9904:09
disco_stunow works fine04:09
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disco_stuGeneralAntilles: the .deb didnt work04:14
disco_stui'll try that manually04:14
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disco_studidnt work manually either04:28
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zakkmanyone here doesnt mind helping me install deblet on my n800?04:56
zakkmIf you are cloning or booting other OS'es, you'll need to make such .item files04:58
zakkmhow would i do that?04:58
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Meiz_n810deblet-installer makes one for you05:02
zakkmbut it said something about if i use clone to SD05:03
zakkmit will screw it up05:03
zakkmthe bootmenu05:03
zakkmit will replace, and not add my clone to sd entry05:04
zakkmInstall Bootmenu first, say yes to removing test stuff and such, say yes to including bootmenu.conf (important). Reboot when done flashing. This is a special boot menu where boot menu items are made in /etc/bootmenu.d/*.item and refresh_bootmenu.d will flash this to initfs. If you are cloning or booting other OS'es, you'll need to make such .item files05:05
zakkmStskeeps or Johnx: you here?05:07
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InteliWasphow can i make a text list of all the apps have installed?05:34
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disco_stuInteliWasp, apt-cache pkgnames05:59
disco_stugoing from memory on that one..05:59
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GeneralAntillesMy N800's almost 2 years old.06:09
GeneralAntillesI'm ready for a new tablet. . . .06:09
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jrayhawkI think he meant 'installed', which would've been dpkg -l or dpkg --get-selections06:10
jrayhawkOnly I further think he meant things that are classified as "applications" by the application manager.06:10
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disco_stuGeneralAntilles: do you get tables for free, huh ?06:19
GAN800Full price for my first 770 and N800.06:19
GAN800Half off for my second of each06:19
disco_stuwhy ?06:20
GAN800But, no, I've never received any special discounts.06:20
GAN800Because I got one from woot more than a year after release and another from buy the same. ;)06:20
disco_stuwell if you get one free of charge you can give one to me :P06:21
GAN800Shipping down South there is, what, $300? :P06:22
disco_stui paid 300 for my n800 6 months ago06:23
disco_stuGAN800: what are you buying now ?06:24
GAN800Nothing for the moment06:24
disco_stui saw the n9706:24
GAN800Will get an N900 when it comes out06:25
GAN800Cellphones do nothing for me06:25
GAN800The software sucks06:25
disco_stuGAN800: what is the n900 like ?06:25
disco_stuGAN800: thats true06:25
GAN800HD camera, 3g data, OMAP343006:25
GAN800That's all we know06:26
disco_stuwow06:26
disco_stuhw kbd ?06:26
GAN800I wish I had the money to buy a supercharger for my Camry. Both for the idiotic thrill and to sate my consumerist tendencies.06:26
GAN800Likely, but there's no details available beyond those 306:27
disco_stutoyota ?06:27
GAN800Yeah06:28
disco_stuyou look like the average nerd guy who doesnt care about cars06:28
disco_stunow youre talking about turbos06:28
GAN800The Scion super apparently fits06:28
GAN800Hehe, I care about lots of things. ;)06:28
* disco_stu never say a scion car06:29
disco_stusaw**06:29
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GAN800They're Toyotas for teenagers06:29
disco_stui own a peugeot06:29
disco_stuwich takes me to college every day06:30
GAN800Toyota pushes them for the youth market in the States, but I don't know about anywhere else06:30
GAN800Hehe, don't sell those here.06:30
disco_stupeugeot 206 ?06:30
GAN800No Peugeot06:31
disco_stui thought it was sold in usa06:31
GAN800Nope06:31
GAN800You really only see BMW, Mercedes, Jaguar, VW/Audi, Ferrari06:31
* bef0rd drools06:31
disco_stuwow06:31
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GAN800The Japanese basically own the economy market06:32
GAN800With the US companies picking up whatever's left06:32
disco_stuGAN800: so your tablet is 2 years old06:33
GAN800VW's really the only one pushing economy Euro cars06:33
GAN800Got it one day before release06:33
GAN800and pre-ordered the 770 before that06:33
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udisco_stdid it have any problems ?06:34
GAN800I kinda wish I remembered exactly what turned me on to the 77006:34
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GAN800Hardware or software wise?06:34
udisco_stHW06:34
GAN800Never had a single hardware issue06:34
udisco_stand bat life ?06:35
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GAN800The first 770's battery is pretty much shot06:37
GAN800The rest are holding up OK-ish06:37
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disco_stuGAN800: are you studying ?06:39
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GAN800Not right at this moment. :P06:41
disco_stuworking ?06:42
GAN800Nah, I'm watching TV and chatting on IRC. ;)06:43
GAN800But, yeah, I'm in school06:43
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chrisak-hello, looking for help setting up cellular provider manually.  I'm a backpacker and in places like thailand and cambodia i can pick my mobile service from the menu.  But nothing listed for vietnam.  Do I need  special info about service (in this case VN Mobifone) to get things working? I have tried just putting in the name as it appears in my N80's (mobile) connection list and the N800 (tablet) attempts the connection but it fails07:28
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chrisak-i have Mobi-gprs-wap as access point name and selected gprs.07:31
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jrayhawkSupposedly the U.S. is going to get the 107 in Aygo form sometime post-200907:49
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Meiz_n810So i need to have ubuntu-box to flash the android kernel or can i flash it on tablet08:33
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Meiz_n810c'mon guys wake up!09:03
Meiz_n810the android work now09:03
Meiz_n810can i flash the kernel in diablo?09:03
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* qwerty12 wants to know how they changed the logo09:04
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Macerno sprint wimax in chicago09:21
Macerwhat bullshit09:21
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vincenzo88Hello09:21
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aquatixmorning all10:27
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atulHi am trying to run my d-bus based application on emulator, on 86 platform when running it is giving me this error message " ERROR: osso_initialize failed: "10:44
Summelitry to run it with  run-standalone.sh app10:52
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StsN800hm, vagalume is pretty neat10:59
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Proteouswhat about the itching and burning?11:05
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* RST38h yawns12:24
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johnxm00f12:27
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Stskeepsjohnx: how did you make hildon stop segfaulting?12:48
johnxI ran it on a real device12:48
johnxI was wrong about icons12:48
johnxit really is a dbus in a chroot thing from what I can tell12:48
Stskeepshmm12:48
johnxrunning it on jaunty+mer on an N800 I didn't have to muck with icons anymore at all12:48
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johnxjust apt-get install hildon-icons and make sure maemo-launcher gets started in start-hildon or before it12:49
Stskeepsk12:49
Stskeepsi took the liberty of compiling some of your branches yesterday12:50
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johnxah, thanks12:50
Stskeepsbtw, merbuilder talks in #merbuilder from now on12:50
Stskeepsfound out how to make python jaiku behave12:51
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johnxah, fun12:51
johnxI should add it to my RSS feed list too12:51
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* RST38h opens his eyes and sees usual suspects12:52
RST38hmoo all12:52
Stskeepsit's kinda weird there's a dbus problem in chroot.. how the heck does sb work then? :P12:53
johnxthat startup script must handle it12:53
johnxthe scratchbox one12:53
Stskeepsk12:53
johnxI was almost gonna try it last night, but decided that I had enough of hildon-desktop for the day12:54
johnxmy qt4.5 build died with a signal 9 on my desktop: oom killer got it after it filled 1GB of RAM and 512MB of swap12:55
johnxthis might be a candidate for cross compiling12:55
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lardmanmorning13:02
johnxmornin'13:02
woglindehi lardman13:02
lardmanStskeeps: where is that channel?13:03
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johnxit's a jaiku channel, not IRC13:03
lardmanah13:03
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suihkulokkimark "i know imap and pop" apparently also knows wearleving better than anyone else on the mk13:04
suihkulokkiml13:04
lcuk_afkjaiku == web2.0 irc :P13:04
lcuk_afkbut im not here right now13:04
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lardmansuihkulokki: s/ml/planet ? ;)13:09
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johnxyeah, he's mostly right though13:20
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* Stskeeps decides to clean up his inbox13:27
Stskeepsjohnx: you use our "old" packages for mer boot on n8x0 or?13:27
johnxyeah, deblet boot basics and utelnetd and I got a linuxrc from deblet as well13:28
Stskeeps*nod*13:29
Stskeepsi'll make some repo packages tonight and a builder i think13:29
johnxother than that, I'm not messing with wifi. it's happy enough calling itself 00:00:c0:ff:ee13:30
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Stskeepshehe13:30
johnxyou saw that the android guys have 2.6.25 booting happily, right? I wonder if they're going to bring the new wifi driver in too13:31
lardmanyes looked interesting didn't it13:31
johnxs/android/nth something/13:31
infobotjohnx meant: you saw that the nth something guys have 2.6.25 booting happily, right? I wonder if they're going to bring the new wifi driver in too13:31
Stskeepsjohnx: solca was in here last night and he has 2.6.28-rc8 or something with new wifi driver13:31
lardmanwhat's the planner kernel for Mer?13:31
Stskeepsjohnx: and android13:31
Stskeepslardman: no specifics yet13:31
johnxwell, hot sauce13:31
lardmanStskeeps: ok13:31
Stskeepsjohnx: try scroll back about 12h30m on the convo me and him had there13:31
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johnxheh, I'll look at my logs. I don't think I have that much scrollback13:32
lardmanjohnx: top of http://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2008-12-04.log.html13:32
* johnx is still pissed that qt4.5 died building on a desktop with 1GB of RAM13:32
Stskeepshttp://mg.pov.lt/maemo-irclog/%23maemo.2008-12-04.log.html , scroll to 'ping Stskeeps'13:33
Stskeeps.. what lardman said13:33
johnxthanks lardman13:33
johnxthanks Stskeeps :)13:33
johnxwell, man, he shows up the nth right smartly :)13:34
lardmanvery impressive :)13:34
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lardmanStskeeps: any thoughts on the use of the DSP in Mer?13:35
Stskeepslardman: didn't really do thoughts in that direction, - things could be provided as gstreamer modules i guess (for codec stuff)13:35
* Stskeeps doesn't have much experience with ds13:36
Stskeepsp13:36
Stskeepshow's the dsp-opengl stuff going?13:36
lardmanI was wondering more whether you wanted to remove the proprietary bits13:36
lardmanStskeeps: I've not had any time in the past couple of days, and haven;t seen baddu about either13:36
lardmanI have a free weekend though so plan to do some general hacking on lots of stuff13:36
Stskeepslardman: well. the idea is a open system, where vendors can differentiate (provide codecs for hw, hw specifics)13:37
Stskeepseven with properitary blobs13:37
Stskeepsbut there should be possiblity to remix your system and such if need be for instance13:37
lardmanback to the DSP, ssvb was talking about (for the 770) removing the need to sink pcm data, and instead outputting that from the ARM kernel, then being able to remove the Nokia DSP kernel and provide our own13:37
lardmandoes anyone know if there's an ARM-side driver for the N810 hardware audio codec?13:38
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Stskeepsre 770 i expect we'll at least provide a tar.gz image or the likes of mer.. since we had debian working, mer shouldn't be far off13:39
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Stskeepsbut in -any case-, people are most welcome to work on aspects of mer i have absolutely no clue about (dsp, etc) :P13:39
lardmanyeah I wasn't thinking specifically of a platform, just that ssvb had mentioned if for that one13:39
lardmanStskeeps: yeah, well what would you like me to do is the question of course? ;)13:40
lardmanlooking at what we know about Fremantle from the summit, audio output is to be done from the ARM, and the DSP to be used to decode video, so wokring out how to output audio directly from the ARM would be worth while13:41
lardmanand then perhaps working out how to transfer data ARM<->DSP faster too :)13:42
Stskeepswell, if you have some ideas on things that should need an overhaul, things that could have OSS replacements, interfacing with pulseaudio and such, i'm all ears13:43
lardmanyes13:43
lardmanI'll do some hacking over the weekend, and we'll have a chat about it next week13:44
Stskeepsalright13:44
lardmando you have pulseaudio working atm in your images?13:44
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* lardman needs to catch up a bit and read the lists/wiki/etc13:44
Stskeepswell, not just yet, i'm about to start building the image builders, but pulseaudio as such is there, probably just needs a backend13:45
Stskeepswe decided to do everything by the book so we were a bit put back, so we're back at same level as before now :)13:46
lardmancool13:46
lardmanwhere's the best place to catch up? ITT thread, mailing list?13:46
atulSummeli:=> Thanks13:47
johnxlardman, well it's pretty boring. we basically have a blank hildon-desktop up13:47
StskeepsMer_Blueprint on wiki, #reconstructedPOC on jaiku, i guess13:47
Stskeepsand what johnx said.. but this does have potential :P13:47
lardmanah that's a good point, lots off desktop applets are closed source are they not?13:47
johnxand the ones that are open aren't packaged :P13:48
lardmanin which case we need to bend Nokia's ear as to releasing the source13:48
lardmanjohnx: ok13:48
johnxI mean, we finally *just* got hildon-desktop launching again yesterday after way too much time spent running down dead-ends13:48
johnxbut maemo-launcher is happy, which is important for any real progress to be made13:49
Stskeepslardman: on the other hand status bar applets are slowly getting there, such as battery (pybattery), backlight/volume (advanced backlight)13:49
Stskeepsand people are getting a good feel of how to develop desktop applets13:49
lardmanreplacements you mean?13:50
Stskeepsyeah13:51
lardmancool13:51
Stskeepsjohnx: btw seems we can also push to ~mer-committers/m-r/13:51
Stskeepsand work together on branches13:51
johnxbe very afraid :)13:52
RST38hlardmann13:53
lardmanhey RST38h13:53
RST38hhow are things?13:53
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lardmanRST38h: not bad, lots of stuff to catch up on (hacking-wise) as I have a free weekend :)13:54
dneary'eyup13:56
lardmanhi Dave13:57
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lardmanandre__: what does "internal copy "INVALID"" mean from #305?13:58
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dnearySo - can someone reassure me14:05
dnearyAm I the only one who doesn't "get" the boundaries between "Maemo X", "Y for Maemo" and "maemo.org Z"N14:05
dnearyThat N was a ?14:05
andre__lardman, it means that some Nokians don't get it :-P14:06
andre__lardman, "If the user sets the proxy field to contain something, then the value is used as is and we will not try to guess what the user really wanted."14:06
johnxNokia likes 3rd party apps called Y for Maemo, doesn't like 3rd party apps called Maemo X and maemo.org Z is related to the website14:07
siewerthi, is anyone familiar with updating libglade2-0 to 1:2.6.1? i'm using an N800 with the latest OS2008.14:07
* bergie needs to do something about MaemoPlazer then ;-)14:08
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johnxbergie, as far as I know Nokia hasn't filed any lawsuits yet :) so far the "dislike" comes from some words on the talk page of a wiki14:09
johnxnot exactly legal advice :D14:09
Stskeepsapt really needs a 'why' command14:09
Stskeeps"why does this not work"14:09
bergiedislike isn't really a trademark-protecting term :-D14:09
lardmanandre__: hmm14:09
johnxStskeeps, solves all your problems with apt-get: apt-get moo14:10
Stskeepsjohnx: why did you have haf-marketing-release in bzr btw?14:10
johnxI thought it provided something I needed14:10
Stskeepsodd, cos i had it in repo already it looked like14:10
johnxhuh14:10
johnxlet me check what it provides14:10
andre__lardman, feel free to add counter-arguments14:10
Stskeepsi'm just wondering cos i have an odd issue atm14:10
johnxdid you build and upload my haf-marketing-release?14:11
johnxwhat's the problem with apt?14:11
Stskeepsyeah, but it refused entry cos of already existing14:11
dnearyjohnx: Plus, there's "Maemo community", don't forget14:11
Stskeepsjohnx: .. sec14:11
dnearyThere aren't just apps, there's also subdomains14:11
dnearyWill talk.maemo.org continue to be known as ITt?14:12
dnearyOr perhaps Maemo Talk?14:12
Stskeepsjohnx: nm, i'm being an idiot14:12
dnearyOr perhaps ljust "talk.maemo.org"?14:12
Stskeepsdneary: i vote for Talk Maemo14:12
Stskeeps:P14:12
Stskeepsjohnx: forgot pinnin'14:13
johnxI vote for tMo with some kind of weird specific capitalization to differentiate from T-Mobile (T-Mo)14:13
StskeepsTMÆ14:13
Stskeeps:P14:13
Stskeeps(tmæ)14:13
lardmanandre__: will do14:13
dnearyjohnx: Yes - MoT14:13
Stskeepsor tmæo (t-mae-ohh)14:14
dnearybut then it's *never* Maemo.org14:14
dnearyit's maemo.org14:14
johnxStskeeps, now, you're getting somewhere: tも14:14
dnearyand it's no æ, it's ae14:14
dnearyNokia's always been clear on that14:14
lardmanandre__: though it looks like timeless has a better idea of the innards than I14:14
gomiamcallit Taelkmo :-P14:14
gomiams/callit/call it/14:14
infobotgomiam meant: call it Taelkmo :-P14:14
andre__lardman, same here :-D14:14
dnearyor just Talk mo'?14:15
lardman:)14:15
dneary(as in, talk more)14:15
andre__Moema.14:15
Stskeepsmoema sounds like some kind of skin disease14:16
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Stskeepsgod, apt-proxy is a lifesaver14:18
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RST38hMaemo then14:31
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pupnikrehi RST38h14:47
RST38hheya pupnik! how is your maemo hacking? =)14:49
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pupnikRST38h: need to do some housekeeping, then i'll try to pick something easy to start up on again RST38h14:53
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RST38hehehe14:55
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siewerthow do i update libglade2-0 to 1:2.6.1 ?15:08
woglindewhy you need this?15:08
siewertthis application apparently needs it: http://mmpc.garage.maemo.org/15:09
woglindehm then mmpc should write were you find it15:09
siewertthat would have been nice indeed...15:09
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siewertactually the problem is that there is already a llibglade2-0 installed but their are a lot of dependencies15:15
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Stskeepshmm, is there a good mail notifier for diablo that isn't modest?15:22
Stskeepsi don't want a full client, just one that pops up and highlights screen15:22
johnxthere's a gmail notifier I think15:23
woglindeextent tinymail?15:23
RST38htinymail is half of the problems in modest15:23
RST38hlemme check though15:23
RST38hSts: http://www.nongnu.org/mailnotify/15:25
johnxooooh...that looks great15:26
StskeepsRST38h: works on maemo?15:26
RST38hAfter porting, it should =)15:27
johnxit's a systray app15:27
johnxwill probably work straight away, but might need some cleanup15:27
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johnxI wonder if it will keep the CPU running though...15:29
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RST38hDepends on what you replace sleep() with :)15:34
lcuksleep is for wusses15:35
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RST38hreal motherfuckers do gettimeofday(&TOD) while (TOD.seconds<maxseconds) ?15:36
RST38h(like Flash plugin for MicroB does, evidently)15:36
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Stskeepshttp://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/DSC00488.JPG <- office after cleanup :>15:37
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Stskeeps(ignore the mess on the other table..)15:37
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RST38hSts: So, all the rest got moved to the other table? =)15:39
Stskeepshehe, that part isn't mine :P15:39
johnxmy usable desk space at home is from the left side of your coffee mug to the right of your mouse pad :P15:40
johnxand imagine the left n800 replaced with a zaurus :)15:40
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RST38hEnjoy: http://photo505.com/15:41
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johnxthat's a somewhat neat trick15:42
RST38hMore themes at photofunia.com15:43
Stskeepshttps://stage.maemo.org/viewcvs.cgi/projects/haf/trunk/ke-recv/src/fremantle-format-internal-memory-card.sh?revision=16812&root=maemo&sortby=date&view=markup15:43
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Stskeepsinteresting15:44
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Stskeeps768mb swap partition sounds a bit extreme15:44
X-FadeStskeeps: Well, with the 32GB disk space we will have, it is ok ;)15:45
johnxI guess they need it for native compilation of qt415:45
johnxis it ok to let that slip? :P15:45
StskeepsX-Fade: i'm actually not entirely uncertain that is so15:45
Stskeepsthis file shows atleast 3gb internal mmc15:45
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Stskeepswith a 2gb linux partition, rest being mkdosfs15:46
johnxand running the system off of the internal MMC card...kind of odd15:46
X-FadeStskeeps: Suspend-to-disk?15:46
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StskeepsX-Fade: maybe15:46
Stskeepsi'm really curious about n900 specs now15:47
X-FadeThat would require at least the RAM size.15:47
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johnxthough actually, untouchable / and unionfs is an interesting idea15:47
johnxif they go for 512MB of RAM I'll be kind of amazed15:47
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johnxif they go for 768MB I'll be downright awestruck15:47
X-FadeSeeing the N97 with 32 gb, I guess we will see the same.15:48
Stskeepswell, 1/3 * ram + ram, isn't that the rule?15:48
Stskeepsso 512mb ram, 768mb swap15:48
johnxyeah, or RAM * 1.515:48
X-FadeStskeeps: Yeah, I think so. You need the RAM size for the dump and some space for housekeeping.15:48
Stskeepsexcuse me for drolling.15:49
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johnxI was really betting on 128MB until the pandora got 256MB, but 512MB wasn't even on my radar15:49
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johnxheh...guess I better make sure I do something to get into the dev program next time around :)15:50
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Stskeepsstirring up enough about Mer might do the trick :P15:50
X-FadeStskeeps: send_enable_pcsuite()15:50
StskeepsX-Fade: yeah, i've seen the pc suite integration15:50
Stskeepsg_nokia15:50
X-FadeSo more integration with Nokia's tools..15:50
* johnx looks at the avatars showing up on #reconstructedPOC...thinks that maybe he should actually get to work15:51
Stskeepsi'm just happy qgil finally caught the bait and joined :P15:52
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Stskeepslo meiz15:52
Meizirkkihi15:52
MeizirkkiI am getting a black screen of death15:52
Stskeepshmm?15:52
Meizirkkitrying to boot android15:53
Stskeepsmer? remembered fb_update_mode manual?15:53
Stskeepsah15:53
Stskeepsprod solca, he seems to have more insight and a later kernel15:53
Stskeeps(not sure if he published it)15:53
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Stskeepsjohnx: slowly starting on http://bazaar.launchpad.net/~carsten-munk/m-r/imager/files15:54
Stskeepswill make armel one tonight15:54
johnxok, I think I'll make a hildon-desktop-env so we have something to start with15:55
Stskeepssounds good15:55
Stskeepsthere's so many loose ends :P15:55
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* Stskeeps ponders where the old mer packages went on his bootstrapper15:57
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johnxI'm starting to think hildon-desktop-env should have the startup script given that hildon-desktop doesn't actually depend on all the things mentioned in start-hildon...16:11
Stskeeps*nod*16:11
Stskeepsyou pulling changes from ~mer-committers/m-r/hildon-desktop?16:11
Stskeepsfixed some build problems last night16:11
johnxok, I'm mainly just putting together the meta package for it right now16:12
Stskeepsk16:12
Stskeepsnew name for deblet-boot-basics, nit-bootmenu-compat16:13
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Stskeepsbuilding in a sec or two16:13
johnxwoo!16:13
johnxgetting close to an installable system again16:13
Stskeepsyeah16:13
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johnxgets faster doing this every time, huh?16:14
Stskeepsyeah, cos you know the pitfalls16:14
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Stskeepshaving deblet-boot-basics was excellent for booting other OS'es16:14
johnxI think I'll avoid Recommends: and make a separate hildon-desktop-env-extras or something16:15
Stskeepsk16:15
Stskeepswe should seperate the confs from hildon-desktop at some point too16:15
Stskeepsthey don't really belong in there. they're "hildon themes"16:16
johnxah, into a hildon-desktop-common or similar?16:16
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johnxdoes hildon-desktop have any hope of running without them?16:16
Stskeepswell it obviously needs one of them, but it's similar to themes16:16
Stskeepsit's the configuration with what goes where and such, like, status bar applets enabled16:17
Stskeepswhich may be good to seperate from hildon-desktop16:17
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johnxyes, very likely16:17
johnxhildon-desktop-layout?16:18
Stskeepsyeah, guess so16:18
johnxhildon-desktop-layout-800x480 :)16:18
Stskeepshildon-desktop-layout-diablo,mer,um, etc16:18
Stskeepshehe, yeah16:18
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johnxso, ie, hildon-desktop-layout-800x480 Provides: hildon-desktop-layout16:19
Stskeepsyeah16:19
johnxvery doable16:19
Stskeepsi wonder if u-m would fit better on smaller resolution16:20
johnxI was thinking that too, but just pulling the left navigator bar would really be fine16:20
johnxthough that might be what they did...16:21
johnxit would still need some minor tweaking16:21
johnxand a button to switch apps16:21
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* Stskeeps ponders how to deal with the kernel modules16:33
johnxproprietary or otherwise?16:33
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Stskeepswell kernel-source-diablo i guess16:34
Stskeepslast time i had to compile it in sb16:35
johnxwell, you can always hope we won't launch mer with diablo's kernel :)16:35
Stskeepstrue, true16:36
johnxwhat was the problem that required sb? packaging? compiler dependency?16:36
Stskeepsodd compiler error really16:36
* johnx needs to find a package that provides one simple script and steal it's packaging...16:37
Stskeepsi use a simple Makefile :P16:37
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Stskeepslook at the old deblet packages?16:37
Stskeepsyou use dh_make?16:37
johnxyeah16:38
Stskeepsi think with regards to kernel modules and everything i'm going behind the builder's back and upload straight to repo.16:38
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Stskeepswe're going to be stuck forever in "doing it the right way" else16:38
johnxI 2nd the motion. anyone object? no. good.16:39
johnxmotion passed16:39
johnxsee, bureaucracy isn't hard :)16:39
Stskeepshehe16:39
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johnxso, let's see, I should do a bzr merge lp:~mer-committers/m-r/hildon-desktop or something else?16:45
Stskeepsyeah, that sounds like a way16:46
Stskeepsand then you can push back changes after committing16:46
johnxfinished my meta package, so I'll pull out start-hildon from hildon-desktop16:47
Stskeepsk16:47
* Stskeeps waits on reprepro16:48
RST38hmoo, zap16:51
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Stskeepsbbl taking bus home16:56
lopzhola16:57
zapRST38h: hya16:59
johnxhi lopz17:00
lopzheya johnx !17:00
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GeneralAntillesdneary, the problem is is that Nokia picked up Maemo as a Nokia trademark.17:08
GeneralAntillesPreviously, "maemo" was the development platform, and Nokia didn't really have a strong attachment to the trademark17:08
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GeneralAntillesThen they nixed OSSO and picked up Maemo17:08
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GeneralAntillesSo we have Maemo (the platform, developed by Nokia, Nokia contractors, and the community), Maemo Software, and maemo.org17:09
GeneralAntillesThe community essentially owns the maemo.org trademark17:09
GeneralAntillesNokia owns Maemo17:09
GeneralAntillesWe don't get to use Maemo for community things17:10
GeneralAntillesAs "Maemo x" implies that it's a Nokia product.17:10
* lardman wonders why Mer doesn't use bitbake17:12
johnxlardman, the main purpose of Mer is to bring the world of ubuntu software to the tablet17:14
johnxlardman, btw, how are your bitbake packaging skills?17:14
lardmanoh, you want desktop software on the device...?17:15
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, better today? :)17:15
lardmanjohnx: packaging is done for you ;)17:15
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Yeah, working hard on some issues again ;)17:15
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johnxlardman, that's not the whole truth and you know it :P17:15
lardmanjohnx: yeah, depends how much new stuff would need to be added really17:15
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, can you see if integration@maemo.org points somewhere when you get a chance?17:15
johnxlardman, mostly interested in making it easy for people to hildonize and go instead of fighting with library builds17:15
lardmanjohnx: what build system are you using atm?17:16
johnxdebian's17:16
johnxwell, debuntu's :)17:16
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Probably to Misha's team. But I'll check.17:16
* lardman will have to read up how to use that17:16
lardmanit does automated builds and produces a rootfs?17:16
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, wanna tell him about the PC suite plugin? :P http://omag.es/blog/2008/12/04/nokia-world-event-is-over-what-about-maemo/17:16
johnxit's just a standard builder. you make a dpkg and throw it at the builder, similar to extras17:17
johnxlardman, Stskeeps has a tool for making a rootfs from debootstrap17:17
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woglindestskeep haha yes17:19
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MeizirkkiitT down?17:25
johnxbeen up and down for a bit here17:25
Meizirkkik17:25
StsN800lo qwerty1217:25
GeneralAntilleshttp://downforeveryoneorjustme.com/internettablettalk.com17:25
qwerty12'ello StsN80017:26
Meizirkkii have tried 15 times and i am still getting bsod with android :(17:27
johnxlooks like qwerty12 finally has competition for most re-flashes in a day :)17:27
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qwerty12hehe17:27
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MeizirkkiGeneralAntilles: your link did not work :)17:31
qwerty12it's back17:31
qwerty12(slowly?)17:32
Meizirkkivery slowly17:32
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GeneralAntillesSomebody got maemo.org cooties on itT. :P17:47
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dnearyGeneralAntilles: Link?17:51
GeneralAntillesdneary, to which thing?17:51
dnearyThe cooties17:51
GeneralAntillesOh, ha.17:51
GeneralAntillesJust the server being slow like maemo.org. ;)17:51
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johnxanyways, night guys. Might be AFK for a couple days. Don't have too much fun without me. :P17:58
qwerty12Don't worry johnx, we'll send you something :P17:59
Stskeepsbzr branches by pigeon18:00
johnxheh, if fremantle is released, print it out and snail-mail it to me, ok :)18:00
qwerty12hehe :)18:00
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herwoodhi18:04
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herwoodanyone know how I can override the default handler for tablet's fullscreen-button in Qt?18:05
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Meizirkkiit was all about one - in the tar command18:20
Meizirkkiandroid boots now :)18:20
Stskeepsah18:20
woglindewow18:20
MeizirkkiWTF?18:20
Meizirkkiit does not boot :(18:21
Stskeepsmm?18:21
Stskeepsah  :P18:21
woglindeoh18:21
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woglindewhats going wrong?18:21
Meizirkkinow it shows me the android logo with blinking robot18:21
Stskeepsheh18:21
Meizirkkithen goes blakc and shows the android logo again...18:21
Meizirkkii have no idea18:21
woglindeserial console then18:22
qwerty12Meizirkki, are you untarring as root?18:22
Meizirkkino18:22
qwerty12Try that then. Permissions may be getting effed up.18:22
Meizirkkii have tried tarring as a root18:23
qwerty12I'll be trying it on a n800 in half an hour, I've been itching for an excuse to try out the oss wifi driver18:23
Meizirkkiat the and, i will still need root privs to move these files18:23
Meizirkkinow i am running in the robot-loop :P18:23
Meizirkki:(18:23
qwerty12But I'm glad that the NthCode guys used the nokia 2.6.21 patch rather than the linux-omap patches18:24
qwerty12hehe18:24
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woglindeqwerty you have it running?18:24
Meizirkki*flashing back to diablo kernel*18:24
qwerty12woglinde, "I'll be trying it on a n800 in half an hour" :)18:24
woglindecompiling kernel?18:25
StskeepsMeizirkki: "robot loop"? hah18:25
Stskeeps:P18:25
woglindestskeep splashscreen18:25
qwerty12woglinde, they've provided a image but I'll will be compiling me own kernel after trying out their image18:25
Stskeepsqwerty12: solca seems to have a later version kernelwith working wifi18:26
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qwerty12Stskeeps, yeah, I managed to stay awake to see that bit, I'll read the logs to see what version he used and apply the nthcode patch against that and compile stlc45xx18:26
Meizirkkiwith working wifi???18:27
Meizirkkii will try it18:27
Meizirkki:P18:27
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qwerty12Stskeeps, I have a feeling that the NthCode guys are booting from sd directly instead of using initfs which makes this harder :/18:27
woglindeqwerty any url at hand?18:27
qwerty12for what?18:27
woglindefor the image18:28
qwerty12http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=24684018:28
Meizirkkiqwerty12: when i flash nthkernel and then fanoushes bootmenu, the bootmenu will never come up18:28
qwerty12Meizirkki, yep, thanks for that. confirms what I said then :/18:28
qwerty12~burn slow, shitty sd card18:29
* infobot pours gasoline all over slow, shitty sd card, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze18:29
MeizirkkiBut would it still be possible to boot nth-android using initfs18:30
qwerty12it could be done via chroot :)18:30
qwerty12so a pivot_root may work18:31
qwerty12If not, well, then it's time to rip out the linuxrc script :)18:31
towoUhhh.18:31
towoIs the SD card slot on the N810 a MiniSD slot or a Full SD slot?18:32
GeneralAntillesMiniSD18:32
towoOkay, thanks.18:32
ShadowJKN800 has SD18:33
ShadowJKi think18:33
qwerty12yeah18:33
ccooketwo of them, even18:33
* Stskeeps really wonders how big internal memory rx-51 will have since it seemingily has a 768mb swap parititon, 2gb linux partion, and rest fatfs18:34
Stskeepson the internal mmc18:34
woglindehm18:34
woglindehttp://heanet.dl.sourceforge.net/sourceforge/android-n810/android-n810-userspace-changes.txt18:34
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ccookeStskeeps: where are those specs from?18:34
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Stskeepsccooke: ke-recv svn18:35
ccookeInteresting.18:35
Stskeeps(format internal mmc command)18:35
ccooke768mb swap?18:35
ccookethat's a really odd thing to see18:35
Stskeeps1.5*512?18:35
Stskeeps:P18:35
ccookeunless they're thinking of a serious memory upgrade18:35
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Stskeepstalk about a pocket computer then.18:36
qwerty12ccooke, it's the cheaper way to get 1gb of ram :P18:36
ccookeqwerty12: heh18:36
X-FadeStskeeps: RX-51 seems to be another n810?18:36
StskeepsX-Fade: hmm?18:36
X-FadeStskeeps: At least it is mentioned here: http://www.mobifrance.com/pdaforum/showthread.php?s=&postid=128408818:36
ccookeI'm fairly sure serious swap usage on my n810 is unpleasantly slow18:36
X-FadeStskeeps: And that doens't look like something a typo can create?18:37
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StskeepsX-Fade: yeah, but the RX-51 stuff got introduced here in dec18:37
Stskeepsin ke-recv18:37
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ccookeon the other hand, the n810 is a borderline device - it's just fast enough that I only get irritated with slowness on very rare occasions18:37
StskeepsX-Fade: in any case, the partition stuff is marked "fremantle"18:37
ccookethe RX-51 will be quite a bit faster, so may be able to make up the difference a bit...18:38
StskeepsX-Fade: also the existence of a hidden nokia tree with board-rx51-usb etc in it18:38
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Stskeepsit's a closer shot than "N900" :P18:39
X-FadeStskeeps: Yeah, well it can be anything ;)18:39
Stskeepsyeah18:39
Stskeepsalso, N97, .. N100?18:39
Stskeeps:P18:39
RST38hN99 first18:39
GeneralAntilles512MB RAM would be ridiculous18:39
X-FadeRidiculously cool ;)18:40
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: yet i'd droll over it.18:40
Meizirkkiridiculous?18:40
* qwerty12 wouldn't complain18:40
GeneralAntillesEither that, or it's 256MB and they've just got much faster NAND than the current tablets.18:40
* Meizirkki would't too18:40
X-FadeWriting to flash now seems to use a lot of cpu too. So that adds to the perceived slowness.18:42
Stskeepswell, is ubifs better in this area?18:42
X-FadeNo idea.18:43
GeneralAntilles512MB . . .18:43
GeneralAntillesThat'd be, like, :drool:18:43
Stskeepsridiculous, you say?18:43
Stskeeps:P18:43
ccookeGeneralAntilles: hey, a NAND that's fast enough to actually make the swapping not horrible would be pretty droolworthy, too18:43
Stskeepsare we speaking NAND or wired in mmc? :P18:44
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qwerty12Eww, that's a good point. I hope they don't pull an N810 and "retardize" the sd slots18:45
Meizirkkidoes someone know why nths android README tells me to NOT plug my n810 to power supply18:45
X-FadeStskeeps: http://markmail.org/message/zt2epehzqppioet3 That rx51 patch is from March ;)18:45
woglindeit tells18:45
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woglindeups sorry18:45
woglindehm18:45
StskeepsX-Fade: hmm, true18:46
Stskeepswell then it's a RX model of n810 noone has seen before on iTT :P18:46
StskeepsRX-?? then18:46
Stskeeps:P18:46
X-FadeStskeeps: It is a patch for omap3 ;)18:46
Stskeepshm :P18:46
X-FadeEhm no, omap2.18:46
Stskeepsalright then18:46
Stskeepsback to n90018:47
Stskeeps:P18:47
qwerty12mach-omap2/board-3430 - confused?18:47
X-Fadedrivers/usb/musb/omap2430.c18:47
X-Fadeyeah, so maybe it _is_ an omap3 prototype board.18:47
GeneralAntillesThat'd make sense.18:49
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GeneralAntillesHrm, what are we gonna do about the wiki when Nokia stops using "internet tablet"? <_<18:51
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qwerty12hack into the server and sed s/internet tablet/whatever comes next/g18:52
GeneralAntillesCurrently I've been using "tablet"18:52
X-Fade"device", "thing" ? :)18:52
GeneralAntillesThing works.18:53
RST38hGeneral: What if Nokia renames it to magic mushroom?18:54
RST38hHow are we gonna handle THAT?18:55
Stskeepsbadger badger18:55
Stskeeps:P18:55
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GeneralAntillesClearly the world will end.18:55
Stskeepsthe advertisement campaign would be epic.18:55
GeneralAntillesSo _I'm_ gonna handle it by holing up somewhere with lots of ammo. :P18:55
RST38hSeriously, I think we should just ocntinue using the word "tablet"18:55
Stskeepsyeah, i like "tablet" too18:55
RST38hIt is short and descriebes the device well enough18:55
Stskeepsit's it's touch screen and not a phone, it's a tablet18:55
Stskeepser, not a keypad with numbers, i mean18:56
GeneralAntillesRST38h, I guess it depends on how radical they go with the change.18:56
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RST38hIn fact N97 is also a tablet, but it is outside of the maemo scope18:56
GeneralAntillesBut, yeah, "tablet" isn't "internet tablet"18:56
GeneralAntillesSo it works18:56
RST38hGeneral: We do not really know what they are gonna position it as18:56
ccookethe N98 looks rather more maemo-like18:56
Stskeepswhat n98? :P18:56
GeneralAntillesThe N98 isn't a thing. :P18:56
RST38hMay well end up with a "netbook"18:56
GeneralAntillesIt's not getting that big.18:57
lardmanI think they'll get rid of internet18:57
RST38hDoesnt mean they can't call it that way18:57
Stskeepsyes, internet is so nineties18:57
Stskeeps:P18:57
ccookebah, sorry. N97, yes.18:57
RST38hSts: N95 was called multimedia computer18:57
RST38hAnd "multimedia" is what? 1991?18:57
Meizirkkiw00t!18:57
X-FadeMy guess is that it will be about the same size as the N97. Maybe a bit bigger screen.18:57
GeneralAntilles"netbook" is pretty well defined18:57
lardmanalso they originally launched it as an "internet" tablet, to do nothing other than surf the web, I think we;re moving away from that to a device which can do PIM, entertainment, etc.18:58
Meizirkkiandroid is cool18:58
Meizirkkibit laggy18:58
GeneralAntilleslardman, "pocket computer"18:58
RST38hPocket computers have been known since Casio FX-720 times18:58
X-FadePersonal Multimedia and connectivity device?18:58
RST38hPMCD? =)18:58
GeneralAntillesRST38h, that's what they're calling the N97 anyway.18:58
qwerty12Meizirkki, yeah, booted here on first try :)18:59
mavhcit's a smartphone without the phone, it's a smart18:59
* RST38h is going to call his "my precioussss". Dunno about the rest of you guys18:59
GeneralAntilles"Magic Slab"18:59
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RST38hInterestng how few people recognized that N97 is the magical Sony Xperia without the damn WinMobile ;)19:00
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StskeepsRST38h: same19:00
Stskeeps:P19:00
Stskeepsi call it "my device" when speaking to my gf though19:00
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lardmanI call it a "Nokia Nokia"19:01
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RST38hSts: How do you call your other device then?19:02
wizaonly thing that sucks with n97 is the keyboard19:02
RST38hCoincidentally, it also sucks with n81019:02
wizaI like my e90 keyb way more than I like n81019:02
* RST38h lokes his e70 keyboard more than wiza likes his e90 keyboard19:03
RST38hs/lokes/likes19:03
towoSoonish, I'll be toting a Bluetooth keyboard..19:03
wizae90 has little bigger keyboard but it has numbers and it's lot more quicker to type with19:03
towoAt which point serious usage of the N810 can commence.19:03
RST38htowo: Hehe, you do not know yet?19:03
Meizirkkiqwerty12: android have now crashed 2 times with very weird way... after several minutes of playing with it the screen slowly fades away...19:03
towoRST38h: Know what?19:03
wizaI use n810 only in my car, gps+canola19:03
qwerty12Meizirkki, hehe, I can't even get the touchscreen to work. I'll have to port the N810 touchscreen fix to N800 *again* >.< :/19:04
RST38htowo: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=335919:04
RST38htowo: enjoy :)19:04
disco_stuisnt n810 keyboard good enough?19:04
Meizirkkiqwerty12: k, now my tablet stays on, even if i take battery off19:04
qwerty12With the charger in?19:05
Meizirkkithe charger plugged in19:05
Meizirkkiyes19:05
qwerty12I've had that happen on Maemo when its crashed19:05
disco_stuthats dangerous19:05
towoRST38h: IT'll be the SU-8W for me, just btw.19:05
Meizirkkidisco_stu: what can happen?19:05
Stskeeps(what are the consequences of bme not running?)19:06
disco_studont know.. but sounds bad..19:06
Meizirkkii would like to use my n810 without bateery sometimes...19:07
RST38htowo: I do not think it matters. People report lag even with wired USB keyboards (see comments on that bug)19:07
disco_stui would like to charge my batts without the tablet19:07
towoRST38h: Yeah. but at least no loss of chars.19:08
RST38htowo: there is repetition of chars though19:08
disco_stui've no lag with my usb keyboard19:08
RST38hI think it has been filed as a separate bug19:08
towoRST38h: Ah.19:08
RST38hdisco: What make/model? And what application?19:08
disco_stugenius luxemate wireless keyboard && pidgin19:09
RST38hcould you try gnumeric?19:09
RST38hand probably modest?19:09
disco_stugive me a few minutes19:10
eichihello19:11
eichiwhere can i get nice maemo wallpapers..? or can i use every 600x800 one?19:12
disco_stuRST38h, well here with xchat no lag19:12
RST38hShit, what is it with academic degree spam nowadays? No more penis extensions, no viagra, no "legal" weed replacements, no hot russian girls, just fake academic degrees and carders looking for US residents19:12
disco_stugonna try gnumeric19:12
RST38hdisco: incredible19:13
disco_stuthe wireless dongle combines keyboard and mouse, but the mouse doesnt work19:13
disco_stumaybe there's no module19:14
disco_stuRST38h, with gnumeric goes flawless19:15
disco_stuno lag, but you have to hit F2 to input data to cells19:15
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RST38hF2 is ok. No lag is highly unusual though19:15
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disco_stuRST38h, with modest i have lag19:16
RST38hAhaaa!19:16
disco_stunot with gnumeric :)19:16
RST38hdisco: File a bug or comment on the one given above19:17
disco_stuRST38h, small lag19:17
disco_stuok19:17
disco_stunow i dont have lag in modest, but i closed some apps19:18
disco_stumaybe it is a processing power issue19:18
disco_stuRST38h, also disabling word completion improves speed a lot19:18
RST38hyea, I know19:18
RST38hso it depends on the number of apps...19:19
MeizirkkiI lost all my stuff from flash, becuase i reflashed diablo. :(19:19
RST38hgtk message processing problems?19:19
Meizirkkiluckily i now know how to flash only the kernel :)19:19
disco_stumaybe if the app is kindy busy19:20
disco_stus/kindy/kind of/19:20
infobotdisco_stu meant: maybe if the app is kind of busy19:20
disco_stuxchat is flawless19:20
disco_stualso pidgin19:20
disco_stu:)19:20
RST38hweird19:20
disco_stuand i have a complete wireless keyboard :P19:20
RST38hpidgin was ok for me too though19:20
disco_stunumpad wont work, so it is unused19:21
disco_stuwhat keyboard are you using?19:22
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RST38hApple BT keyboard19:23
disco_stuRST38h, im considering buying a rubber keyboard that i can roll into my bag19:24
disco_stuRST38h, thats cool19:24
RST38hit sucks, don't19:24
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RST38hThe Nokia keyboard towo has is pretty good but expensive19:26
towowill have.19:26
towojust to correct thate.19:26
RST38hah19:26
disco_stuyeah.. the thing is here in my country i cant afford none of the bt keyboards19:26
disco_stuthey are so expensive19:26
* RST38h bought Apple in in the US19:27
RST38hs/in/one19:27
* disco_stu is stick in argentina19:27
RST38hAbsolutely no desire to pay local VAR even if the keyboard will have cyrillics19:28
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disco_stumine has Ñ19:29
disco_stulol19:29
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disco_stuRST38h, maemo desktop lacks functionallity to open app menus with keyboard19:30
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disco_stuso you have to grab the stylus and thats odd19:30
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GeneralAntillesThere should be a shortcut.19:31
GeneralAntillesOne of the F keys. . . .19:31
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RST38hLet me check which one19:31
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RST38hF419:32
RST38hMore info here: http://maemomm.garage.maemo.org/docs/tutorial/html/ch02s03.html (and I sincerely hope they will finally move these keys to their own keycodes)19:33
disco_stuyeah thats app menu19:33
disco_stui mean, when in the desktop19:33
RST38hOh, the desktop does not get the keyboard focus19:33
disco_stui mean opening panels19:33
disco_stuthats odd19:33
disco_stuRST38h, n810 hw keyboard gets the same lag ?19:37
disco_stuor you cant see it because of typing speed19:38
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RST38hno, hw keyboard seems to be ok19:38
RST38hbut yes, it is difficult to figure out because it slows down the typing19:39
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disco_stuNm }19:39
disco_stuSorry, that was me cleaning the kb19:40
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* disco_stu is heading towards his books again19:41
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RST38hbtw https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3913\19:42
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Stskeepsqwerty12: can you be bribed to porting bzr?19:50
Stskeeps(it's python)19:50
qwerty12Stskeeps, for Maemo or mer?19:50
Stskeepsmaemo19:50
Stskeepsfor mer it's already there :P19:50
Proteouslkjwa;oijasdfhgj19:50
* Stskeeps wonders what Proteous is on19:50
X-Fadehttp://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2008/12/sany0032.jpg "The web now made by hand" ?19:50
Proteoussorry that was me pressing random buttons for no reason19:50
qwerty12Stskeeps, hehe, soon. I need to figure out why this kernel isn't booting19:51
Stskeepsqwerty12: alright19:51
Meizirkkiqwerty12: android related?19:51
StskeepsX-Fade: that's curious19:51
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, good lord that looks fragile.19:52
qwerty12Meizirkki, yeah, I just fixed the touchscreen so it works for N800 but not so it boots evidently19:52
X-Fadepart of this galery: http://www.engadget.com/photos/nokia-n97-hands-on/1196849/19:52
ProteousIt looks pretty sturdy to me19:52
Meizirkkiqwerty12: ok19:52
ProteousI wouldn't advise sitting on it whne the screen is open19:52
Proteousbut that goes for most things19:52
X-FadeThere seem to be 2 stands holding the screen up.19:52
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Proteousif there was just one it would flop around19:53
Proteoussorta like a table with only 2 legs19:53
StskeepsX-Fade: i'm still unsure if i like the design or not.. the hinge is cute though19:53
X-FadeStskeeps: At least you don't need the kickstand anymore. And can type on it while standing and open.19:54
ProteousI"m always suprised at how much abuse my n810 screen/keyboard hinge takes with no ill effects19:54
StskeepsX-Fade: yeah, true19:54
X-FadeFinger typing instead of thumb typing ;)19:54
ccookeProteous: I've dropped mine a couple of times19:54
ccookeit's a pretty sturdy device19:55
ccookeNot as unkillable as a Zaurus, though :-)19:55
ProteousI woke up this morning with it open and under my side..19:55
ccookeah. Yes. That's mildly scary when you realise.19:55
Proteousyeah19:55
ccookemine has a tiny blemish on the screen from where I slept on it.19:56
Stskeepsnokia n8x0 - baby practice19:56
Proteousprobably my subconscience mind trying to get me a new n9719:56
lardmanStskeeps: stepping back to deblet, did you guys flash a new kernel to use it?19:57
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AngieQi wake up on mine all the time, off the side of my bed, jammed between the headboard/matress19:58
Proteousheh19:58
AngieQmmmm, sturdy, even dropped it twick19:58
AngieQtwice19:58
* lardman looking at this post http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=204730&postcount=4419:59
X-FadeWe really need to do more advertising like this: http://www.trigem.co.kr/tgshop/specialshop/eventshop/081203/images/mobbit_in_01.jpg20:00
X-Fade:D20:00
qwerty12lardman, no new kernel is neede20:00
qwerty12+d20:00
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qwerty12X-Fade, lol20:00
lardmanqwerty12: interesting that the AEM-side can see the mixer then, thanks20:00
lardmans/AEM/ARM20:00
lcukX-Fade, the blonde guy looks like konttori :D20:01
X-FadeHeh ;)20:01
qwerty12lardman, yeah, I've seen a picture of the same sliders shown in a chroot20:01
lcukwhy is itt down?20:01
lcukare we on talk. yet?20:01
GeneralAntilleslcuk, no.20:01
Meizirkkiqwerty12: could this help you with the kernel? http://guug.org/nit/nitboot/nitboot.sh20:02
GeneralAntillesWhen I fall asleep using my tablet it usually ends up somewhere on the other side of the room when I wake up. :\20:02
qwerty12Meizirkki, I gave up and reformatted my memory card, I don't have the energy to be arsed even slightly about it20:02
Meizirkkiok20:02
* qwerty12 woke up to find my entire shoulder weight resting on my N800 once :/20:02
lardmanqwerty12: is good, am wondering if we can unroute the audio and use the dsp for other things20:03
qwerty12heh, I don't even like the dsp being used to just play mp3's :)20:04
lardmanqwerty12: well it does a job20:04
qwerty12lardman, sure, no denying its usefulness but for me, with regards to just playing music, it just doesn't do much for me20:05
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bergielardmail: looking at that picture... it is comforting that "mobile" in Korean is "mo-ba-il" :-)20:05
lardmanqwerty12: yes, I wonder if it's more efficient to just decode on the arm and shut the dsp down in that case, assuming the dsp can be bypassed and the hw audio codec accessed directly from the kernel20:06
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Stskeepslardman: nop, diablo kernel20:08
qwerty12Stskeeps, ubuntu bzr packages i assume?20:09
Stskeepsqwerty12: hmm?20:09
qwerty12Stskeeps, not from debian20:09
Stskeepsi guess  bzr would be most updated20:09
Stskeepser20:09
Stskeepsubuntu one20:09
Stskeepssince they use it actively20:09
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RST38hGeneral: Your preciousss wants to leave you. It is probably not happy about your BeagleBoard addiction.20:10
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lcukqwerty12, my missus rested her elbow on the 810 once20:12
lcuki think my heart actually stopped20:12
qwerty12:/20:12
RST38hlcuk: Is the screen concave now?20:12
qwerty12Stskeeps, piece of shit uses cdbs, give me some time while I make it normal20:13
lcukno, but there appears to be a crack in right place, and its lost sensitivity to touch (think thats more through me - its lost sensitivity only in place where i use it most)20:13
Stskeepsqwerty12: ah :P20:14
lcuklardman, did i hear you right, you are wanting to stop using dsp for all the things its been doing all year20:14
lcukand retarget it at other things?20:14
RST38hlcuk: sad =(20:14
lardmanlcuk: we know Fremantle doesn't use the DSP for audio, so I'm getting ready ;)20:14
lcukRST38h, :) i have a standin now so thats ok20:15
lcukimmaculate conception and all that20:15
RST38hlardman: What will be the new audio architecture then?20:15
lardmanPulseaudio20:15
lcukand then for some bizarre reason the 2 n810s were alone for the night and an n800 appeared not long after20:15
RST38hNormal DMAble audio stream to a PCM circuit?20:15
lardmanI don't know all that much about the innards of Pulseaudio, except that it's ARM-side; the DSP is to be used for video decoding once again20:16
RST38hlcuk: biologically, an n900 should have appeared but only if one of those n810s is female20:16
lcuklardman, excellent - its great doing a little bit of lateral thinking20:16
lcukno RST38h that only happens if they mate in an environment with plenty of raw materials around, in this instance there was no omap3s for the droids to utilize20:17
qwerty12Stskeeps, some weird errors, sorry but I don't have the time to rip it apart20:17
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qwerty12Stskeeps, unless a source package matters, I could hack up a package?20:18
* lardman begins to think that comparing the entire kernel trees (Bora vs Diablo) was a bad idea...20:18
lcukheh simon, yeah a bit of a mammoth20:18
qwerty12lardman, hah! 2.6.18 v 2.6.21 :P20:18
qwerty12a lot more than just nokia changes :)20:18
qwerty12lardman, trying to get rndis working?20:18
lardmanyeah I know, I want to see if some change was made to reduce the DSP->framebuffer speed20:19
qwerty12(hopeful)20:19
qwerty12ah, skeen20:19
lardmanqwerty12: nah, not bothered about that, I have wifi, I just saw the thread and thought I'd stick my oar in :)20:19
lcuklardman, what do you mean reduce the speed?20:19
lcukthe framebuffer is normal memory isnt it20:19
qwerty12lardman, hehe, I used to want rndis but now since I have a router that doesn't manage to eff up ssh connections...20:20
lardmanwell in my testing last year the update rate was shocking on the n800, but the 770 used the dsp to decode video!20:20
lcukso you should be looking specifically at memory bandwidth diffs20:20
lardmanlcuk: that may well be part of it20:20
GeneralAntillesRST38h, I wish I had that addiction.20:20
lcukthe 770 had higher bandwidth epson chip though20:20
GeneralAntillesIt's STILL a brick. :\20:20
lcukor it was used properly or something20:20
GeneralAntilleslardman, the 770 didn't have a DSP. . . .20:21
lardmanlcuk: yeah, that would limit total screen update speed, not what I'm thinking20:21
lardmanGeneralAntilles: yes it did :)20:21
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GeneralAntillesEr, yes, it did.20:21
* GeneralAntilles was off in another dimension.20:21
lardmanthat's why I bought one in the first place20:21
lardman:)20:21
lcukok, so from DSP you generate a whole frame test pattern and send it to normal memory.  are you saying that operation was faster on 77020:21
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lardmanI don't know, not tested the same thing yet20:22
lardmanbut on n800 was very slow <10fps iirc20:22
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lardmanand using yuv420 too, don't worry :)20:23
lcukyou saw the post the other day from serge about none tearing rgb20:23
lardmanyes20:23
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lcuki did some hunting and it was still tearing using default sdl - now it mightv been my test but i think we need to find out specifically how to make use of it20:23
lcuki know he mentioned something about allowing setting resolutions from sdl - but was testing full 800*480 updating20:24
lcukwe shall have to collar him and get a test case to build from#20:24
lcukis there a way to send a dsp binary thats been hand built at normal cpu binary runtime to the dsp and have it executed20:25
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lcukGeneralAntilles, whats with itt - are we getting a self propergating DOS or was there a reason20:27
* GeneralAntilles is not Reggie. :P20:27
GeneralAntillesDunno20:27
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lcukbut you normally have oyur ear to the ground20:27
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lcuksidetalkin using the earth as your taco :D20:28
GeneralAntillesHehe20:28
GeneralAntillesI never hear anything about itT infrastructure stuff.20:28
lcukyou will soon20:29
GeneralAntillesI'd like to just do the Talk stuff right now. :P20:29
lcuki agree, it brings it to the right place20:29
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Stskeepsqwerty12: hacking up is fine. don't need extras :P20:39
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qwerty12k, I have to go now but I can try in the morning (hopefully, you can do it before then)20:40
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qwerty12bye20:40
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lardmanis that rgb?20:41
lardmanwhere was that post of Serge?20:41
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lcuklardman, ill find out20:56
lcukitt was down so i went firefox bug hunting instead20:57
lcukbut yes he said rgb20:57
lcukso i tried simply using a basic sdl window20:57
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lcukand scrolling something on it (was sideways text book page picture moving like a reader..) and it still tore20:57
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lardmanlcuk: we'll have to ask Serge21:01
lardmansupper's on the table, bbiab21:01
lcukalright, catch you later21:01
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zach-n800hmph this xchat app is quite nice21:43
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disco_stuzach-n800, xchat rulz21:45
zach-n800i would like to make a dark theme though, kin21:46
zach-n800kind of like dust on gnome*21:46
fiferboyqwerty12_N800: Sounds like your services are being requested:21:48
fiferboyhttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=246889&postcount=1821:48
fiferboyDarn, you're too fast!21:48
qwerty12_N800:)21:48
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qwerty12_N800fiferboy, he wants to ask me to get wifi working in android. 1) I don't need him for that, 2) that kernel version doesn't support the oss wifi driver, 3) I'm bored of android after having one kernel fail on me :)21:50
fiferboyI'm sure you had more than one kernel fail on you the first time you did the port21:51
qwerty12_N800true, but I'm extremely tired today :)21:51
fiferboyAh, sounds like a lack of caffeine21:52
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qwerty12_N800Well, I've just had a can of pepsi :-)21:53
fiferboyThat should get you going again.  Give it ten minutes21:53
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zakkmHi, i tried to install deblet bootloader and once it asked to reboot, my cloned to sd entry got removed, how would i go about and adding it?22:46
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Stskeepszakkm: make a .item file for it in /etc/bootmenu.d and refresh_bootmenu.dt22:48
Stskeepsbootmenu.d22:48
zakkmany chance you dont mind guiding me/stepbystep right now?22:48
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zakkmor a site with a guide?22:48
Stskeepsif you tell me exactly what partition and ext/int card it's on..22:48
zakkmi did clone to sd22:49
zakkmto the internal card22:49
zakkminternal card = has the ext2 cloned to SD22:49
Stskeepsok, what partition number? :P22:49
zakkmbooting from clone to sd.. i installed deblet boot loader22:49
zakkmwhatever default is22:49
zakkmuhh22:49
zakkmi dont have root from flash so i cant do fdisk can i ?22:49
Stskeepsthere should be a sfdisk -l or something22:50
Stskeepsyou in deblet or internal flash?22:50
zakkmsfdisk not found22:50
zakkmim in internal flash22:50
zakkmwhich i have nothing installed22:50
GeneralAntilleslardman|afk, ping?22:50
zakkmi didnt install deblet yet22:50
zakkmjust the bootloader, nad it asked for reboot22:50
Stskeepsah22:50
zakkmi cant install deblet cause its in the clone to sd,.. but i cant get back to that22:50
zakkmcause theres no boot entry anymore22:51
Stskeepsfine, sec22:51
Stskeepsyou use diablo?22:51
Stskeeps(on the internal flash)22:51
zakkmyes22:51
zakkminternal and cloned to sd = diablo22:51
Stskeepsk22:51
Stskeepsls -l /dev/mmcblk1p*22:51
zakkmk let me type, quite slow ,,n80022:52
zakkmbrw-rw---- 1 root floppy 254, 9 Jan 1 1970 /dev/mccblk1p122:52
Stskeepsonly one? k22:53
zakkmi dont mess with partitioning on handhelds22:53
Stskeepsand mmcblk0*?22:53
zakkmmy 160gb pc.. has 7 partitions ;p22:53
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zakkmtheres 322:53
zakkmp1, p2, p322:53
Stskeeps  /sbin/sfdisk -l /dev/mmcblk0 doesn't work?22:54
zakkmoh it will onesec22:55
Stskeepstell me which one is linux partition22:55
zakkmcannot open /dev/mmcblk0 for reading22:55
zakkmpermission denied22:55
Stskeepsyeah, sudo gainroot :P22:55
zakkm  ... / mccblk0p3 = linux22:56
zakkmwaitt22:56
zakkmp2 ***22:56
Stskeepsk22:56
zakkmp1 = fat16, p2 = linux , p3 = swap , p4 = empty22:57
lardman|afkGeneralAntilles: pong22:57
Stskeepszakkm: thanks, - mount -o remount,rw /mnt/initfs22:58
Stskeepscat > /mnt/initfs/etc/bootmenu.d/cloned.item22:58
Stskeepsinsert contents of http://rafb.net/p/JZ3VOF34.html22:58
Stskeepsand press ctrl-d22:58
Stskeepsmount -o remount,ro /mnt/initfs22:58
zakkmomg wow22:58
zakkmITEM_DEVICE="${INT_CARD}p2" # partition the fs is on22:59
zakkmwould i put that as ="/dev/mmcblk0p2"22:59
zakkm?22:59
Stskeepsno, make it as i said22:59
zakkmoh its predefined?22:59
Stskeepsyeah22:59
GeneralAntillesandre__, ping.22:59
zakkmthought it was like fill in the blanks with your configuration23:00
Stskeepsnop, that's the contents23:00
Stskeeps:P23:00
zakkmso slow at this23:00
zakkmshould of ssh'd -.-23:01
andre__pong23:01
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zakkmwhat the23:02
Stskeepszakkm: you don't have to type in the stuff after #23:02
zakkmi know that23:02
Stskeepsk23:02
zakkmi did take programming in school ;p23:02
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zakkmthough i liked /*   */ .. better than #23:02
Stskeepsmatter of preference i guess :P23:02
zakkmis there a way to do new line in maemo keyboard23:03
zakkmtheres "enter button" theres close keyboard, and backspace23:03
xet7When installing Scratchbox on VPS, I get error "E: Host kernel module binfmt_misc is required for the CPU transparency feature." - is this really needed?23:03
zakkmis there new line somewhere23:03
Stskeepsuh.. enter does new line23:04
Stskeepsxet7: sadly.. :P23:04
Stskeepslook into maemo sdk+23:04
Stskeepsit's less picky23:04
zakkmfuck cat i hate cat23:05
Stskeepstough love23:05
Stskeeps:P23:05
zakkmhave no nano in my internal flash :(23:05
* Stskeeps ponders if he should sleep or try to get mer going on n8x0.23:05
xet7Stskeeps: Where is that sdk+ ?23:06
zakkmmer?23:06
zakkmwhats mer?23:06
Stskeepshttp://maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org/23:06
Stskeepszakkm: .. successor to deblet, haven't we had this discussion? :P23:06
zakkmoh right23:06
zakkmwasnt looking it as abbreviated23:06
zakkmim trying to type it, real slow, frustrating lol23:07
xet7Stskeeps: Thanks :)23:07
zakkmhow is mer coming along?23:07
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timsamoffGeneralAntilles: I sent you an email.23:08
timsamoffw/ a Q.23:08
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Stskeepszakkm: slow but good23:09
StskeepsMeiz_n810: is install_mr similar setup ok for you?23:09
zakkmreally? functional?23:09
zakkmshould i install that rather than deblet, currently?23:09
Stskeepsno, not functional yet23:09
Stskeepsit's like having sex with a pile of splinters right now if you're not a developer23:10
zakkmlol23:10
zakkmwish i better at debian23:10
GeneralAntillesThat, uh, quite the mental picture. . . .23:10
zakkmalways hated debian distros -.-23:10
zakkmwell rpm more but yeah23:10
zakkmwhat the23:11
zakkmhow would i quit vi on nokia?23:11
Stskeeps:q23:11
Stskeepsesc, :q23:11
zakkmitwheres esc23:11
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StskeepsEsc in the xterm :P23:12
zakkmoh23:12
zakkmit says esc23:12
zakkmlol23:12
jrayhawktablet-sound: Depends: osso-dsp-modules-rx-44 but it is not installable23:13
jrayhawkWhat am I supposed to do about this?23:13
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zakkmfind the dep :)23:13
jrayhawkDo I have to reverse engineer the credentials used to AUTH with the nokia repo?23:14
zakkmsweet it workst23:14
zakkmthanks Stskeeps!!! :)23:14
zakkmthough i didnt doubt you23:14
zakkmwhats fun to try on deblet?23:16
jrayhawkxpat223:16
jrayhawkx2x is also fun to abuse23:17
Stskeepsjrayhawk: .. what are you trying to do? deblet on 770?23:17
zakkmx2w?23:17
jrayhawkn81023:17
Stskeepsjrayhawk: eh. that shouldn't happen23:17
zakkmStskeeps: whats good for deblet?23:17
zakkmor N800's for that matter23:17
Stskeepszakkm: .. go for nit-env-lxde23:17
zakkmi tried the easy debian lxde23:18
zakkmim sure the deblet one will differ a bit but i wanna try different wm's/de's23:18
Stskeeps.. for good measure, i don't intend to work much more on deblet really. mer is the way ahead atm23:18
Stskeepszakkm: yeah, but this one 100% works initially and get you going :P23:18
zakkmyou just said its not worth it ;p23:18
zakkmto try mer23:18
Stskeepsyeah23:18
Stskeepsbut it will be.23:18
Stskeepswe're in the starting stage right now23:18
zakkmim sure23:18
zakkmand when it reaches that point, ill get mer23:18
jrayhawkWhat's mer's project?23:18
zakkmbelieve me23:18
zakkmim a nightly kind of guy23:19
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Stskeepsinfobot, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed , http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint , http://launchpad.net/m-r , http://jaiku.com/channel/reconstructedPOC , http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i/ (short summary)23:20
infobot...but mer is already something else...23:20
Stskeeps~mer23:20
infobotmer is, like, the distribution formerly known as Maemo Reconsctructed23:20
Stskeepsinfobot, no, mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed , http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint , http://launchpad.net/m-r , http://jaiku.com/channel/reconstructedPOC , http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i/ (short summary)23:20
infobotStskeeps: okay23:20
Stskeeps~mer23:20
infobothmm... mer is http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed , http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint , http://launchpad.net/m-r , http://jaiku.com/channel/reconstructedPOC , http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i/ (short summary)23:20
Stskeeps.. there23:20
Stskeepsjrayhawk: read up :P23:21
Stskeeps(apologies for spamming.)23:21
* GeneralAntilles was readying the banhammer. <_<23:21
jrayhawkOoh.23:22
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zakkmwow you guys are amazing23:23
jrayhawk'This proposal tries to see Maemo as a deriative of Ubuntu' gah23:24
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Stskeepsjrayhawk: well, not as a ubuntu system. minimal base23:24
Stskeepsi mean23:25
Stskeepsmaemo is based on debian..23:25
Stskeeps:P23:25
* zakkm dislikes ubuntu for calling itself *easy to use* when clearly its one of the most problematic distros23:25
Stskeepsso in that direction23:25
* w00t hugs Stskeeps23:25
Stskeepsjrayhawk: and so far we have good experiences with ubuntu jaunty arm port. we don't intend maemo to be "an ubuntu". we're going to wreck it to fit properly to mobile devices23:26
Stskeepsbut keep the possibility to easily port things, hildonize, run other DE's, etc23:26
Stskeepsand for this purpose, it's showing well23:27
jrayhawkYeah, it's just weird that anyone would decide to use an Ubuntu base system since they seem to break stuff with experimental features and loose policy enforcement.23:27
* zakkm thinks fluxbox with a proper full length taskbar, with desktop icons would be the best WM for the nokia23:27
jrayhawkI guess Upstart is nice.23:27
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Stskeepsjrayhawk: well, it works, and that's how it is right now :P23:28
l7hmm, does free always show your available swap?23:29
jrayhawkYeah, but I wonder how much broken policy will limit the use of Debian's gigantic package repository.23:29
l7i'm wondering if my swap partition stopped functioning23:29
jrayhawkI guess that can mostly be worked around.23:29
zakkml7: swapon /dev/___23:30
zakkm:)23:30
l7ah23:30
Stskeepsjrayhawk: also ubuntu arm seems to strive actively towards hwcaps for libs and such for optimization23:30
Stskeepsinstead of staying at lowest common denominator23:31
l7thanks, let me ponder that a bit23:31
suihkulokkiStskeeps: that's something that will be done in Debian as well as soon we get the release done23:31
Stskeepssuihkulokki: alright23:31
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Stskeepsjrayhawk: but if this in any way interests you to help out with, msg me with your e-mail, i'll get you a jaiku invite and you can participate in our microblogging and follow us :P23:32
zakkmStskeeps recruiting.. :P23:33
* zakkm wasnt accepted23:34
Stskeepsmeh, if you want a jaiku invite, just message me an email :P23:34
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* Stskeeps is just really trying to gather people interested in some way23:35
l7zakkm: is swapon /dev/mmcblk1p3 the right usage for using the 3rd partition on my internal card as swap?23:36
* suihkulokki notices guadec+akademy in july in Gran Ganaria, and debconf a week later elsewhere in spain23:36
l7i wonder if applying swapon to a directory where you have some data will eras it23:36
Stskeepssuihkulokki: hehe. wanting to go somewhere warm?23:37
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suihkulokkiStskeeps: I guess in july that's HOT rather than warm23:37
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Stskeepsyeah, true23:38
l7maybe i should just run swapon -a23:38
* Stskeeps wouldn't mind some good weather right now.23:38
suihkulokkiweather is just great indoors here :)23:38
zakkmeah sorry23:38
zakkml7: it is23:38
Stskeepsyeah, i keep a good 25 C in here.. even worse in my office.23:38
zakkml7: no idea, it wont work if its not a swap partition i believe23:38
zakkml7: i was taught it durng my gentoo days, i dont know much about it, it was just a command i used if i wanted to use swap23:39
zakkmthat way if i didnt do much, it wouldnt send things to swap cause it didnt exist23:39
zakkmmade a desktop shortcut23:39
Stskeepshttp://www.daimi.au.dk/~cvm/DSC00488.JPG <- my mer-i386 dev spot23:39
Stskeeps(papers behind -not mine-) :P23:40
l7Hmm23:40
l7swapon: can't stat '/dev/mmcblk0p3': No such file or directory23:40
zakkmis it not swap?23:40
l7i think penguinbait's script specified the internal slot as swap23:40
zakkmman swapon ?23:40
Stskeepstogether with two tower servers in the office, it gets warm.23:40
l7but i moved the boot sd card to the external slot23:40
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l7so perhaps i just need to point it to /dev/mmcblk1p3 for the external card23:41
l7or just move the boot card back23:41
jrayhawkSharing computer room pictures?! This is my favorite game!23:41
jrayhawkhttp://www.omgwallhack.org/media/img/joe/hovel/IMG_0865.JPG23:41
zakkmjust enter 1p3 .. and see if that works?23:42
zakkmjrayhawk is that really yours?23:42
l7yeah, i'm just thinking outloud here :)23:42
Stskeepsjrayhawk: .. i just hid away my cola bottles too :P23:42
jrayhawkNot quite. It has two more monitors, now.23:42
l7and keeping a record in case i crash i guess23:42
zakkmholyshit23:42
l7and keeping a record in case i crash i guess23:42
l7eh?23:42
zakkmjrayhawk: your computer room.. wow23:43
zakkmuh, just got called and asked if i could go into work right now and work23:45
zakkmThanks again Stskeeps !! :P23:45
zakkmcya guys23:45
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l7ah well it worked, swap is restored23:45
l7anyone have an idea if you would get better IO throughput if you put your swap on the internal SD card and the system on the external card?23:46
l7and if that would translate into a more responsive system23:47
GeneralAntilles~ping23:47
infobot~pong23:47
Stskeepshehë23:49
GeneralAntillesI'm having services drop left and right. <_<23:50
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jrayhawkA Cogent/Internap link is having problems.23:53
* Stskeeps waits on debootstrap and taps fingers23:56
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Stskeepsi really don't blame nokia for providing firmware images once in a while..23:57
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