IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2008-12-03

Stskeepshmm.00:00
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Stskeepsactually, it may be okay that we have it be a binary00:01
Stskeepsit should just be -export-dynamic and -fPIC00:02
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Stskeepsaccording to the docs00:02
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l7instead of the n900?00:11
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l7oops, that was from before00:11
GAN800I wonder what Nokia's expectation was with Modest.00:12
GAN800'Maybe if we half-ass an open source client the patches will just start pouring in'00:12
Stskeepsor getting people to use claws..00:13
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Stskeeps:P00:13
GAN800Maybe that approach would've made sense if any of the Modest devs were actually visible.00:14
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suihkulokkithe main developer atleast was very noisy00:15
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hopefullsomebody any idea how to get wpa-suplicant working under os2008 ?00:15
woglindehopefull install the new wlan-driver00:15
woglindeand hope its already enough for wpa_suplicant00:15
Stskeepshopefull: there's a small bunch of patches for cx3110x00:16
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GAN800suihkulokki, well, the Modest product on bugzilla basically went ignored00:16
GAN800Maybe they were active somewhere, but it certainly wasn't here.00:16
hopefullwogline where can i get it ?00:17
GAN800What's more bothersome is that it gets shipped with Diablo and all the devs instantly move on to other projects like they actually shipped something resembling a 1.0 or something.00:17
Stskeepsmy god, what is with those ogg fanatics..00:17
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GAN800Stskeeps, impressive, aren't they?00:18
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hopefullwoglinde where can i get it?00:18
derfSome people have nothing useful to do with their time, I guess.00:19
StskeepsGAN800: i still think the case of xvid gaining such a place in piracy was interesting from format point of view00:19
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Stskeeps.. just thought of that they have a bit in common00:20
Stskeepsmore adoption, less complaining, really00:20
suihkulokkiI'd like to understand why rar is so popular with pirates00:20
GAN800Hehe00:21
woglindehopefull http://stlc45xx.garage.maemo.org/00:21
Stskeepssuihkulokki: history, and the fact it has excellent spanning00:21
Stskeepsand the fact everything can be verified in bite size chunks and fxped over and all that stuff easily00:22
Stskeepssince connections aren't always so stable00:22
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ShadowJKrar enabled a user-driven manual bittorrent-like distribution :P00:23
hopefullwoglinde looks like a tricky work......00:25
ShadowJKI don't think it's coincidental that after people started using special purpose parity archives, the rar people integrated parity volumes into rar :P00:26
StskeepsGAN800: did you get tired of Modest now too or? :P00:26
ShadowJKWhat IS modest?00:26
StskeepsShadowJK: diablo mail client00:26
* ShadowJK hasn't dared try00:26
Stskeepsit was called modest in chinook, before it got embedded00:26
ShadowJKI need to figure out a way to export my mail first00:26
GAN800Stskeeps, I'm in a foul mood sitting here with a splitting headache waiting for the pizza guy who's now 30 minutes late. . . . :p00:27
ShadowJK(from ~ behind nat+firewalls onto some imap)00:27
StskeepsGAN800: mine took an hour longer than normally. i was pissed too :P00:28
Stskeepsheh. http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=246393&postcount=31 - this is something that's hard to show on MIDs00:28
ShadowJKwhat makes pretty graphs like that00:29
ShadowJKoh maybe I should click view thread..00:29
GeneralAntillesFinally00:30
Stskeepspizza? :P00:30
GeneralAntillesYeah00:30
hopefullStskeeps where can i get the battery tool00:30
Stskeepshopefull: .. it's an active thread on internettablettalk.com/forums00:31
Stskeepsor Talk Maemo or whatever it's called now00:31
Stskeeps:P00:31
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, not yet. :P00:32
GeneralAntillesProbably "Talk" will be sufficient, though. ;)00:32
Stskeepstalk maemo sounds cool00:32
Stskeeps:P00:32
GeneralAntillesI hope that graph gets into adv-power.00:32
qwerty12_N800Talk Maemo sounds like a chat show :P00:32
GeneralAntillesHosted by qwerty12_N800.00:33
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: iTT drama would belong on oprah..00:33
qwerty12_N800:P00:33
Stskeepsor dr phil00:33
Stskeeps:P00:33
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Stskeepshttp://lwn.net/Articles/104185/ <- heh00:54
GeneralAntilleslol . . . "Linux maemo"00:54
GeneralAntilleshttp://www.reuters.com/article/marketsNews/idINL251396920081202?rpc=4400:54
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Stskeepsyeah, read00:55
qwerty12_N800Bastards! Where's the capital M?00:55
GeneralAntillesI'm wondering what the hell "Linux maemo" is.00:56
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Stskeepsbetter than s60 maemo00:57
Stskeeps:P00:57
GeneralAntillesHehe00:57
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StsN800whoa, didn't know there was a organise applications button01:07
qwerty12_N800how long have you had a tablet now? :p01:08
GeneralAntilleslol01:08
GeneralAntillesReally01:08
GeneralAntillesStsN800, learn to explore control panels better. :P01:08
StsN800im astonished i didn't find it before01:09
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* GeneralAntilles reduces StsN800's competence grade a few points. :P01:09
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StsN800mm01:16
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GeneralAntillesAwesome, Benson's gonna put up the new voting procedure.01:31
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l7StsN800: have you tried personal menu?02:03
l7it gets even better02:03
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ds3does there exists an alternate media player that supports OGG's and do not try to create its own UI?02:31
texelHm. Random question: what is /etc/resolv.conf supposed to be linked to on Diablo tablets?02:31
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texelOh. Wait.02:32
texelSo /etc/resolv.conf has to have a nameserver line containing 127.0.0.1?02:32
ds3it is probally proxying DNS since glibc likes to cache the contents of /etc/resolv.conf02:33
texelNope.02:34
texelit's dnsmasq.02:34
texelBroken.02:34
texelGr.02:34
texelFixed it by setting the nameserver to 127.0.0.1 and now DNS resolution works fine.02:34
texelAnd no, glibc does /not/ cache the contents of /etc/resolv.conf -- that's what nscd does. =op02:34
ds3uh... maybe caching isn't the right word but getting a running program to reread /etc/resolv.conf is a bit difficult02:35
texelThat's because many programs cache the nameserver themselves.02:36
texelFirefox is notorious for that.02:36
texelThere may be other gnome apps that do the same.02:36
texelBut glibc by default does not.02:36
ds3glibc does02:36
ds3anyways02:37
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texelds3: how?02:53
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texelAhh.02:55
texelDebian/Ubuntu patched glibc to update the cache upon a stat change.02:55
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ds3texel: it has been a problem I had to deal with before03:04
texelMm. Apparently programs are supposed to call res_init() to recache the contents.03:05
texelBut most don't know that, or it has other issues.03:05
texelThe reason why I was confused is because of the change made in Ubuntu/Debian which make it /act/ like it's never cached.03:06
ds3res_init is part of libresolv on some systems, IIRC03:06
* texel nods03:07
ds3DNS is a mess, easiest to route it through a daemon03:07
ds3the other complication is making dns nonblocking @$%$@#$@#%03:07
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timelessis there a doc other than03:50
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* GeneralAntilles waits with baited breath.03:53
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GeneralAntillesAnybody want to put together a script to export the translations on the wiki to some .pos? :P04:00
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johnxmornin'05:01
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johnxStskeeps, if you're still awake, did you test that it can be loaded by maemo-launcher?05:06
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* GeneralAntilles wonders what to make of http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=246449&postcount=3806:31
glass_make pie06:31
GeneralAntillesMmm06:31
* GeneralAntilles could really go for some cherry.06:31
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johnxmmm...pumpkin pie06:44
johnxprobably a song reference06:45
GeneralAntillesUrg, now I really want to drive out to the Village Inn and buy a pie. . . .06:46
glass_GeneralAntilles: i don't think maemo forums are a good place to look for cherry..06:47
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GeneralAntillesGet yer mind out of the gutter. :P06:54
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GeneralAntillesAlright, the translations are finally done.07:01
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glass_GeneralAntilles: i'm having imsomnia, bad jokes are the only thing i'm good for07:03
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Stskeepsjohnx: admittedly no but it ought to judging on m-l docs07:39
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* GeneralAntilles shivers.07:41
* Myrtti decides not to wail loudly and goes to prepare some coffee and ice cream instead07:43
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kulveds3: do you mean command line ogg capable player? Or a media engine daemon?07:59
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Jaredudoes irssi work on the n810?08:00
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`0660of course08:03
`0660i just haven't found a terminal that would support opening hyperlinks08:04
Jaredummk08:05
`0660hmm, with n810 they might actually work because it has ctrl key08:05
Jareduyep08:05
ds3kulve: a player... mogg and media player has problems so i am looking for an alternative08:05
Jaredutouch highlight ftw :P08:05
GeneralAntilles`0660, have you tried tap'n'hold? . . .08:06
Myrttisupport opening hyperlinks...08:06
Myrttihaven't found...08:06
Myrttioh dear god, I must be sleeping08:06
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`0660tap'n'hold used to work with advanced osso-xterm08:07
`0660but it's not maintained anymore08:07
`Macethink i'm going to get an e90 soon08:08
`Macei'll have to go see one and play with it but it looks pretty nice08:08
kulveds3: what do you mean by "do not try to create its own UI"?08:10
ds3kulve: things like canola, ukmp, etc they do not behave anything like the normal apps... i.e. they insist on full screen, the +/- keys don't work, scrolling is different, etc08:12
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kulvekilikali is a bit more normal, but it's quite unpolished..08:13
ds3yeah, I tried it... the buttons are too small08:14
ds3if media player didn't drop all the OGG's from the playlist when it gets suspended, it would have been fine08:14
kulveds3: when did you try it? The UI got rewritten awhile ago and I put it to extras-devel this week..08:15
ds3kulve: I just installed it sunday08:16
kulveok08:16
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ds3I spent sunday evening trying out different players and they are either too buggy or too wild in how they deviated from the stock UI08:18
ds3most irritating seems to be Kagu not liking nonfull screen modes08:21
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shizhanhello all, who knows how to make the vlc media player for os2008?08:35
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doc|homeshizhan: something I can help you with?08:52
shizhanoh ,I'm not familiar with this tool,so sorry08:53
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shizhanbaaba: ping08:57
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shizhandoc|home:sorry to disturb you08:58
shizhandoc|home: Do you know how to cross-compile vlc media player for os 2008?08:59
shizhanWho knows how to cross-compile vlc media player for os 2008? many thanks09:02
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`Macehi09:17
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doc|homeshizhan: no09:21
shizhandoc|home: thanks all the same09:21
shizhan`Mace: hi09:22
shizhan`Mace: just now , I enter the virtual machine ,so don't see your message, you know it ?09:23
`Macehuh?09:23
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shizhan`Mace: how to cross-compile vlc media player for os 2008 ?09:24
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`Maceer09:24
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`Macedon't know. never did it09:24
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`Maceanybody here use an e90 w/ att?09:25
qwerty12Stskeeps, qole got background changing working with the command line in a fashion: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=246465&postcount=844 :D09:28
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Stskeepsqwerty12: yeah, i suspected it was just like that09:46
Stskeepsbut that probably isn't memory effective09:46
qwerty12meh, xsetmgr is killed afterwards09:47
qwerty12Though chrooting may add time which is why I compiled hsetroot anyway09:47
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* Stskeeps tries to wake up09:56
* qwerty12 sets up a pizza shop outside Stskeeps's residence09:57
qwerty12Now will you get up?09:57
Stskeepsgot a pizza in the fridge09:58
Stskeeps:P09:58
qwerty12damn :D09:58
Macerhey09:59
Maceranybody here know much about wimax?10:00
Stskeepsmorn macer10:00
* Macer has no clue how it works10:00
Macerheh10:00
Maceri wanted to cancel att and see if i could use skype with wimax on an n81010:00
Macerbut i don't know how i'd go about doing that10:00
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Macerhm.. wonder if it's possible. i don't see why not but i need more information on wimax in chicago10:01
MacerThe WiMax Edition is optimized to support Sprint's "Xohm" WiMAX service, which is launching in Chicago, Baltimore, and Washington DC this Spring, with more cities to follow later.10:02
Macerwell. guess i'll have to look at sprint then :)10:02
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Myrttiwimax, is it something edible... oh no, wait, more coffee.10:05
Macerheh10:05
Macerwell... i guess sprint offers it10:05
Maceri wanted to get a wimax n81010:05
Maceruse skype and cancel any voice plan :)10:05
johnxthat sounds like a recipe for annoyance :)10:06
Macerheh10:07
Macernot if wimax doesn't suck. and sprint is said to have great wimax coverage in Chicago10:07
johnxhandoffs aren't quite the same as GSM, and I'm not sure about latency10:09
Macerit's ok. i don't mind the handoffs too much10:10
johnxyou don't mind randomly dropped calls?10:10
Maceri'm usually stationary and i want it more for the data than the voice calls10:10
Macerno10:10
Macer;)10:10
Maceri don't talk on the phone more than 5 mins anyways10:10
Macerunless it's my gf.. and then i can at least blame it on a drop10:10
Macerhaha10:10
Macer"thank god!"10:11
Maceri hate talking on the phone10:11
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Macerwell.. i will call sprint tomorrow and let you know how that works out10:15
Macer;)10:15
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StsN801johnx, what was the initial issue that lead to the executable vs so?10:24
johnxit wouldn't load with maemo-invoker, so I guessed (incorrectly it seems) that the fact that it was an executable was the problem10:24
johnxsorry to send you on a wild goose chase :(10:25
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StsN801hehe, it's fine, i discovered how launcher works10:26
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StsN801is the maemo launcher daemon running? else use the .launch (if executable)10:27
johnxyeah, it was, let me try this again and get the error message10:28
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StsN801hah. maemo launcher: child_died_painfully()10:38
johnxow :O10:40
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StsN801or kindergarten_release_child10:42
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johnxHere's what I'm seeing: http://pastebin.com/m5b5bd7f11:01
johnxthat's what lead me to look towards whether hildon-desktop.launch was a shared object or not ...11:02
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johnxthat's after maemo-invoker /usr/bin/hildon-desktop.launch is run in another terminal11:03
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Stskeepslook├Čn'11:05
Stskeepsthat's kinda weird, yeah11:06
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johnxif I link with -pie instead of -shared it starts for a sec and segfaults ..11:10
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Stskeepstry get lp:~carsten-munk/m-r/hildon-desktop11:10
Stskeepsit has it making it as an .so11:10
johnxtrying...11:11
Stskeepshm, there's difference in pie and pic11:11
JaffaMorning, all11:13
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johnxmaemo-launcher told me to :P11:15
Stskeepsyeah, i was surprised too11:17
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johnxseg fault11:21
Stskeepssucks..11:22
Stskeepsi'll look into it, but atleast we have it more traced down now11:22
Stskeepsokay.. sometimes it's really astonishing how many professors, postdocs, and stuff that come to my office uninvited11:22
Stskeeps:P11:22
Stskeepsfor weird reasons ranging from wanting to find a firewire cable to asking about names of projects that they have no idea about..11:23
Stskeepswhich is, also, the reason why i keep my door locked.11:23
Stskeeps:P11:23
johnxahaha11:24
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RST38hsts,john: moo11:31
Stskeepsmoo, RST38h11:31
johnxyo RST38h11:31
RST38h"I don't see anything in Android which would make it better than Linux maemo," Lappalainen said.11:34
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johnxA Nokia spokesperson doesn't see how their competitor's product is better? What a surprise...11:37
robtaylorjohnx: andriod is pretty horrible compared to maemo, imho11:39
johnxthey're pretty different systems11:40
robtaylorat least maemo uses standard gnome/freedestop parts. android is no different to any of the other phones that are built on a heavily hacked-up linux kernel with a custom userspace11:40
johnxwell, except that the custom userspace is open11:41
robtaylorjust "open source", and i use the quotes justifiably...11:41
robtaylorin the loosest possible sense, try submitting a patch and see what kind of speedy reponce you get..11:41
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johnxheh, it is funny they end up locking down the g1, but that doesn't force other people to do the same11:41
johnxreponse at bugs.maemo.org hasn't always been terribly stellar either11:42
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robtaylorjohnx: that's true, that's true11:44
robtaylorjohnx: but at least there's an upstream to push bugs to.. in android they're packagers and upstream.11:45
johnxfair enough, I haven't tried to submit patches to either, but it also strikes me that more of android is actually open sourced compared to OS200811:46
johnxI am looking forward to the Fremantle alpha SDK though11:46
RST38hjohnx: Android *is* pretty raw and limited11:47
johnxyeah, it's a mobile phone OS11:48
RST38hAnd the funny part is that if Nokia really wants it, it can run Android inside its existing platform :)11:48
RST38hjohnx: Android is not an OS, it is a  framework + apps11:48
johnxyou mean maemo or symbian?11:48
RST38hYes11:48
RST38hMaemo - for sure. Symbian - maybe, given compatibility layer11:48
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johnxeh, android is really the whole thing though. It's linux+davlik11:51
johnxI guess it depends on how you define what an OS is11:51
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RST38hjohnx: Dalvik is a freaking JVM. It shouldn't care what OS it is running on11:51
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RST38hIf it does, this should and will be fixed (if the source is open)11:52
johnxok, I didn't said it did care11:52
RST38hSo, the "linux" component can most likely be replaced with relative ease11:53
johnxok11:53
johnxsame as maemo11:53
johnxwhat's your point?11:53
RST38hNot very important, except for inducing wows from penguin worshippers11:53
RST38hjohnx: Current Maemo is much more tied to Linux than Android. Have you noticed that we STILL do not have a Windows based SDK? ;)11:53
johnxwell, it's certainly tied to a Unix-based OS11:54
RST38hAnd that the Linux based SDK basically creates a self contained linux environment? ;)11:54
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RST38hExactly - because stuff like DBus, GConf, ESD, ALSA, X11 is part of the Maemo platform11:55
johnxyou could develop just fine in cygwin I'm sure, but you'd have to compile in an emulator11:55
* RST38h compiles with i386-based cross compiler11:55
RST38hBut the main shit starts happening if you try using autoconf on which Maemo also relies now11:55
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johnxheh, autoconf11:55
RST38hSo, no, Maemo is not Android11:55
johnxyeah, no kidding11:55
RST38hAndroid's java frameworks are not tied to anything specific.11:56
johnxbut x11, dbus and gconf aren't linux11:56
RST38hjohnx: They are Unix, which I do not differentiate from Linux, really11:56
johnxwhich is kind of funny, because there's only one currently supported OS on the desktop that *isn't* unix...11:56
RST38hBut try running this stuff on top of Windows or Symbian and while I watch you tearing your last hair out =)11:56
RST38hNo, there are three! WinXP, Vista, and Windows Server! =)11:57
johnx:P11:57
johnxis there a posix layer for symbian? :D11:58
robtaylorRST38h: actually, their IPC depends on kernel support11:58
robtaylor(and they have an ugly device driver to support it)11:58
RST38hrobtaylor: But can't it be faked?11:58
RST38hjohnx: Yes. Two!11:58
RST38hjohnx: There is early posix support (including stdio!) they added when porting JVM11:59
robtaylorRST38h: hmm, possibly, depends on the underlying arch11:59
RST38hjohnx: And then there is more modern posix that lets you compile C software for Symbian11:59
robtaylorRST38h: its for cross-process reference counting. very hard to get right in user space, hence the kernel hack12:00
RST38hrobtaylor: I mean, inter process communication isn't really rocket science...12:00
robtaylorRST38h: reliable cross-process reference counting is a bit12:00
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robtaylorits one of the main reasons all the big iron guys moved away from CORBA to message buses12:01
RST38hrobtaylor: I am sure it is resolvable though :)12:01
robtaylor(and one of the reasons we moved away from CORBA to message buses ;))12:01
RST38h~curse JAVA and CORBA12:02
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, JAVA and CORBA !12:02
RST38hhehe12:02
johnxironic12:02
robtaylorRST38h: maybe, maybe. Android is really broken in this regard, imho12:02
robtaylorrofl12:02
RST38hoh, there is a bonus meaning to that curse12:02
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RST38h...former CEO of Open Source Development Labs, has written an op-ed on BusinessWeek claiming that the traditional open source business model, which relies solely on support and service revenue streams, is failing to meet the expectations of investors.12:08
* RST38h wonders what took 'em so long? Didn't want to say that in the open while investors were giving them money? =)12:09
johnxhope no one tells RedHat12:10
robtaylorRST38h: works ok for quite a few companies12:10
RST38hjohnx: Redhat has a different model12:13
RST38hand we do not really know how well it works for them12:14
johnxthey're publicly traded12:14
johnxwe know how it works12:14
johnxlook at their revenue :P12:14
RST38htrue :)12:14
johnxand yes, they have pretty much the same model: you pay for support. don't want support? Use fedora or centOS12:14
RST38hBut Redhat basically takes somebody else's OSS software, package it, and ship it12:15
RST38hTheir development costs must be pretty low12:15
johnxthey pay a lot of devs12:15
johnxkernel devs, gnome devs, etc, etc12:15
RST38hThey do, but they are not developing the whole thing12:15
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RST38hThe original "OSS business model" was "Develop your software, release it under GPL and make money on support"12:15
RST38hAnd THAT model does not work.12:16
johnxyou mean oracle's model?12:17
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RST38hOracle's DBMS is closed source and you pay per-CPU12:18
johnxer, wait, sorry, I was thinking of postgres I think12:18
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RST38hHehe, N97 is causing some major soul-searching on iTT :)12:23
RST38h"It is a new tablet! But it is a phone! It runs S60! I will NEVER buy it! But it is a tablet!"12:23
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johnxeh. I think people who like developing for the tablets will stick with it12:24
johnxif some of the users are happy on a $700 phone than good for them12:25
baabahow exactly does the usb support work on the n810?12:26
baabait seems that during normal operation i'm unable to reach anything above usb1 speeds12:27
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baababut when flashing the device it's sending data at 7.5 megabytes per second12:27
johnxis this with the tablet as host or the tablet as a device attached to a computer?12:28
johnxanyways, back in a bit12:28
baabadevice when flashing, host otherwise12:28
baabais that what causes it?12:28
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kleisthello maemoistas! to get access to my linux filesystem, the easiest way is to use samba?12:41
RST38haccess from where?12:44
kleistfrom my N81012:45
kleistit would see SMB "mounted" filesystems? like windows does?12:46
RST38hyes but only if your smb share is public12:47
kleistok, thx12:47
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lardmanmorning13:02
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johnxaugh! now hildon-desktop non-maemo-launcher version is segfaulting on startup O_o13:57
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Stskeepsfile hildon-desktop.launch?13:58
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johnxnope, I rebuilt it with nolauncher14:03
johnx(*&$%14:03
Stskeepswell then we have a reason why it -also- fails in non-maemo-launcher :P14:04
Stskeepsyou use my branch or something else?14:04
Stskeepscos that one is hardwired to launcher14:04
johnxthis is the one I was working on, applying the debian packaging to your branch, removing dependencies on the osso-af-startup, etc14:05
johnxhowever, hildon-desktop will also segfault if the right pngs aren't in the right place14:05
Stskeepsk14:06
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Stskeepsjohnx: avoid stripping package maybe14:17
Stskeepsverify it's not a .so, btw :P14:17
Stskeepsit will segfault else14:17
johnxit's an executable14:17
johnxit runs for a while, tries to draw a panel14:17
johnxit's complaining about missing icons again...it's done something similar before and it turned out to be just icons, and I need to sort those out anyways (hopefully remembering where everything is supposed to go this time)14:18
Stskeepsk14:18
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johnxwonder if it has to do with running in a chroot ...14:25
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Stskeepsdunno14:28
Stskeepsmissing dbus?14:28
johnxor not connecting to it correctly...14:28
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* Stskeeps is writing a usb imager for mer-i38614:29
Stskeepsplug in, boot up, installs mer image on hd/ide compact flash/etc14:29
johnxwhy don't you just use ubuntu's?14:29
Stskeeps:P14:29
Stskeepshm?14:29
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johnxah, I guess that's for installing the whole system on a usb-stick, not making a usb installer14:30
Stskeepsah14:30
Stskeepssfdisk is actually more flexible than i realized14:31
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johnxoh, it's flexible alright14:31
Stskeeps,,L makes a linux partition fitting the entire thing14:31
johnxit's just arcane14:31
Stskeepsyeah14:31
johnxI kind of resent partitioning being made that much of a PITA14:32
johnxwell, granted that ,,L isn't a pain once you know it...14:32
johnxI guess it's just the vi of partitioning14:33
Stskeepsyeah14:33
johnxI can't picture how much partitioning someone would have to do before deciding that this kind of shorthand needed to exist...14:37
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`Macei really want to see what sprint has in a way of wimax14:53
`Maceso i can get a wimax n81014:53
`Macei've been with att for a while and they just seem to get more and more retarded with each passing month14:54
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timelesshelp?15:02
timelesshow do i undo karma?15:02
`Macebe a better person?15:03
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timelessi mean in planet15:03
johnxah, accidentally voted something up or down?15:04
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johnxcome here and ask someone to do the opposite, then it'll even out :D15:04
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timelessheh15:05
`Macei should call sprint and ask about their xohm wimax stuff15:06
`Macei don't want voice.. just data15:06
`Macebut knowing typical multi billion dollar conglomerates15:06
`Macethey probably force you into a voice contract just to get wimax15:06
johnxit's not sprint anymore15:06
johnxit's clearwire15:06
johnxand no, they offer no voice plans that relate to wimax15:07
`Macereally?15:07
johnxreally truly15:07
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`MaceThank you for your interest in Clearwire. We currently do not offer service in the location you entered. Please enter your contact information below and we will contact you as soon as we have coverage in your area.15:09
`Macewtf15:09
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johnxhmm? but you think that sprint used to cover that area with xohm?15:09
RST38hThat was a pleasant, diplomatic way of saying "fuck off"15:09
`Maceyes15:09
`Maceit's chicago ;)15:10
`Maceit rolled out here15:10
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`Macewell.. baltimore.. but chicago is in the sights15:10
`Macehttp://www.xohm.com/15:10
johnxso there was never live service in chicago, right?15:10
`MaceSorry, XOHM isn't available here.15:11
`Maceguess that's a no15:11
`Macesucks15:11
johnxwhy did you think it was already out?15:11
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`Macehttp://www.xohm.com/apps/coverage-tracker/15:11
`Macebecause i read an article on it15:12
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`Macelooks like chicago and dallas/ft worth are getting it next15:12
johnxyeah, they ended up massively behind schedule15:12
`Macethat sucks15:12
`Macei want a wimax n81015:12
`Macei guess i'll just wait a while until it comes here and the n810s come down in price15:13
`Macewell that's fucking lame15:13
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johnxStskeeps, ha! looks like a dbus in chroot thing.15:13
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johnxgah15:13
timelessping?15:13
timelesshttp://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/15:14
timelesscould someone load that page w/o js enabled15:14
timelessand copy the thumb down link for '15:14
timelessN97 - No, it won't replace the Internet Tablet15:14
timeless'15:14
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johnxtop article?15:15
`Macewimax n810 would replace everything if there was wimax everywhere like there was supposed to be :)15:15
johnxso wait, no js in the s60 browser? that kinda sucks15:16
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* johnx often confuses himself15:17
RST38hthere is js15:17
RST38hjust slow and unstablr15:18
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bergieinteresting: http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2008/12/03/nokia-going-linux-bu.html15:20
timelessbergie: ping15:20
bergiepong15:20
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johnxprobably not good to read too much into statements like that :)15:20
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timelesscan you look through the website bugs i'm filing now?15:21
bergietimeless: not right now, but during the evening, yes15:22
bergieunless there is something extremely urgent, of course15:22
bergiein the evening's meeting we need to decide what we want done during Dec15:22
timelessi'd like to unbury some articles15:24
bergietimeless: there is UI for "unfavoriting" in http://maemo.org/news/favorites/ but not for unburying IIRC15:25
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bergietimeless: so an UI favor unburying should be easy to make15:26
bergieplease file a ticket15:26
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timelessok, i filed a bug saying the read crumb was wrong15:27
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timelessyou can fix the bug some other way :)15:27
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bergietimeless: well, those tickets are a different thing...15:30
bergiefile another for enabling unburying :-)15:30
timelessalright.15:31
bergiethx15:32
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* Stskeeps tries to understand what moblin actually is.15:47
* GAN800 freezes to death15:49
GAN800A mobile Linux distro based on Red Hat?15:49
woglindelol15:50
StskeepsGAN800: or a maemo clone :P15:51
Stskeeps(no, i don't intend to use moblin)15:51
johnxnot a clone so much as an old version of maemo running on brick-like intel hardware...15:51
Stskeeps.. true15:52
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Stskeepsscary, just realized i've worked with the guy who wrote agetty linux port :P16:15
woglindehaha16:16
Stskeepssurprises comes in man pages occasionally16:16
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Stskeepsjohnx: seems like box.net went commercial 100%16:23
johnxno more free account?16:24
Stskeepsor maybe.. hmm16:24
johnxstill free16:24
johnxyou did remind me I should play with it again though :)16:24
Stskeepsokay, i must have looked at some other site then16:24
johnxboxfs was fun, but rather slow and sketchy16:24
Stskeepsjohnx: we should definately make something with boxfs in mer :P16:25
Stskeepscould introduce an interesting twist16:25
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Stskeepsmore of a cloud OS16:26
johnxthere's lots of fun stuff to do with fuse :)16:26
johnxI just never get around to it16:26
johnxfor a while I kept my ~/documents in version control :)16:27
Stskeepshehe16:27
johnxbut I never write anything at home in a word processor, so that folder is mostly static these days anyways16:27
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* Stskeeps would really love something like dropbox, put mp3s in a folder, sync to n80016:28
Stskeepswithout having to ssh in and scp it over16:28
Stskeeps:P16:28
johnxwell, start with sshfs :P16:28
johnxerr...your desktop is windows isn't it?16:28
Stskeepsyeah16:29
Stskeeps:P16:29
johnx<sales pitch>it's really great in nautilus, just drag and drop to transfer by sftp16:29
Stskeepshehe16:29
johnxI tend to do it as I'm walking out the door and the transfer finishes by the time I'm out of wifi range :D16:31
Stskeepsyeah,s ame16:31
Stskeepsi really need to do my sync-the-songs-i'm listening to-based-on-last.fm thing sometime..16:31
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, sftp? :P16:33
johnxthere's a nice GUI sftp client for windows I thought16:33
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: something that automatically syncs my tablet and stuff is better than sftping in and out :P16:33
GeneralAntillesThere's an icon on my desktop I can just drop stuff on.16:34
Stskeepsthere should really be wiki pages "integrating your tablet into your computing environment"16:34
Stskeepssftp, rsyncing, usb networking, x11vnc, .. rdesktop, etc16:35
Stskeeps:P16:35
GeneralAntillesThere's a "getting media on your tablet"16:35
GeneralAntillesThere's a VNC/RDesktop page, too, but it really sucks.16:35
Stskeepsi wouldn't mind a suite you could install on your pc really :P16:35
Stskeeps"Your N810 is in range, would you like to sync" (avahi) .. and so on16:36
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johnxuhm, the jaiku build commands are really neat, but it won't let me type the same thing twice...how do I rebuild? O_o16:36
Stskeepsjohnx: delete the old one16:36
johnxfair enough16:36
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Stskeepsjaiku builders are awesomely slow atm16:36
Stskeepsi'll move repo sometime today probably, and try to make it into a http redirect instead16:37
Stskeeps.. if apt even supports that16:37
johnxhmm16:38
Stskeepsnop, seems not16:38
johnxI remember it choking on 302s16:38
johnxyeah16:38
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Stskeepsit'll be packages.mer.tspre.org probably16:38
Stskeeps(or repository.. im not sure which one i added16:38
RST38hSts: rsync16:38
RST38hSts: + some scripts I guess16:39
Stskeepsyeah.. and a decent cron / alarmd interface16:39
Stskeepswe had this discussion i guess :)16:39
* Stskeeps is so looking forward to get home from work16:39
johnxthe thing is, I don't know what I want synced until I actually am ready to sync it...16:39
Stskeepsavahi + sftp might be nice, appear as an icon16:40
Stskeepsand just drag-and-drop16:40
johnxI guess avahi would be nice16:40
johnxI just keep static DHCP and assign hostnames automatically16:41
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johnxI don't get new devices often enough that it's a real problem :)16:42
RST38hHmm...home from work...that will be at least 1:40, probably more.16:42
RST38hjohnx: Get 'em more often, don't supress your urge =)16:43
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johnxRST38h, the problem is I seem to have developed an addiction to eating daily...16:43
RST38hjohnx: A deadly addiction indeed16:44
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johnxyes, I've heard it's terminal in all cases16:44
johnxthough I'd like to avoid that indefinitely :)16:44
Stskeepsjohnx: so it looks like tslib and omapfb built fine :)16:45
Stskeeps.. or not16:45
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Stskeepswhat was the issue with tslib?16:45
johnxhmm?16:45
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johnxforgot to apply the button-release patch from the debian bug report16:46
Stskeepsah16:46
johnxremembered as soon as I tested on zaurus :/16:46
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Stskeepshmm.. "HildonStackableWindow"16:50
johnxsomething new?16:50
Stskeepscp using it now16:50
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Stskeepsright, i'm off home16:53
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* GeneralAntilles wonders if X-Fade's still dead.16:56
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bergieGeneralAntilles: he is not on Jabber, which is quite a sign17:01
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GeneralAntillesbergie, any chance you could tell me if integration@maemo.org points anywhere?17:02
bergieno idea about the mail setup, sorry17:02
lardmanjohnx: going back a bit, Nautilus is pretty unstable for me when doing sftp (backend not supported errors all the time)17:09
johnxlardman, what release are you on?17:10
johnxit's been rock solid here in gnome from ubuntu 8.04 and 8.1017:10
lardmanno idea, whatever comes with ubuntu upgrades17:10
johnxwell, it depends on what version of ubuntu you're on :P17:10
lardman8.04 I guess, not the very latest17:10
johnx~lart hildon-desktop for not giving any clear indication of why it dies17:11
* infobot accelerates a free AOL cd to 50,000 rpm and lets hildon-desktop feel it for not giving any clear indication of why it dies17:11
lardmaninfobot: not sure they can take that sort of speed17:12
lardman    for i=1:max(group) % I'm assuming that no weird numbering stuff has gone on in here....17:13
lardman        group_centroid_row(i) = mean(row(find(group==i)));17:13
lardman        group_centroid_col(i) = mean(col(find(group==i)));17:13
lardman    end17:13
lardmanhttp://www.powerlabs.org/cdexplode.htm17:13
aquatixi think you will have fragmented that disk long before it reaches 50000 rpm17:13
lardmanoops17:13
lardmanthe wonders of WinXP copy & paste :)17:13
RST38hlarrdmann17:13
johnxah, the fun of spinning CDs on dremels :D17:13
lopzhola17:14
RST38hahh, centroids...tasty they are!17:14
lardman:)17:14
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lardmanRST38h: but pictures are better (not sure what's happened to this one mind you): http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/untitled.jpg17:19
RST38hlardman: how colorful! how mean! =)17:20
lardmanalways best to work with pretty colours, keeps one happy while coding :)17:21
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RST38hyea, even if it is only syntax highlighting...17:23
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GeneralAntillesThe N97 threads are getting a little silly.17:31
GeneralAntillesCellular pundits and S60 fans always crack me up.17:31
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johnxWTH is conkeror?17:35
qwerty12Something that was named by somebody who felt the need to copy KDE17:35
johnxI guess so ... O_o17:35
johnxsome mozilla based browser that ended up installed without me telling it to be17:36
GeneralAntillesThe talk about Linux as an alternative on Nokia's high-end phones is kinda interesting.17:37
GeneralAntillesBeing able to swap between Symbian and Maemo(?) might actually make me care about phones.17:38
* qwerty12 misses having an S60 phone17:38
johnxgetting my phone into a reboot loop and losing my contacts would make me smash that phone against a wall17:38
GeneralAntillesHehe17:39
RST38hGeneral: Don't tell me you are willingly participating in the N97 brouhaha17:39
GeneralAntillesWell, we're talking Harmattan+ here. ;)17:39
jaskaharmageddon17:39
johnxconsidering that Nokia invented the Linux reboot loop...17:39
GeneralAntillesRST38h, no, I'm willing paying attention to real comments by a real Nokia spokesperson about long-term possibilities. ;)17:39
RST38hjohnx: Smashing your phone against the wall significantly increases your risk of never recovering your contacts17:39
johnxRST38h, but the contacts were trapped inside, I just had to get them out17:40
RST38hGeneral; Ah, the comment on the long term goal of using Linux in smartphones17:40
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GeneralAntillesjohnx, anyway, current stability isn't necessarily an indicator of stability 2 years down the road. :P17:41
RST38hjohnx: Try screwdriver and pincers then! =)17:41
GeneralAntillesI haven't had a reboot loop in a while17:41
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RST38hAnyways, people, what are you talking about? Maemo is ways more stable than Symbian17:41
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GeneralAntillesanybody using their tablet normally shouldn't run into them.17:41
johnxGeneralAntilles, I'm not convinced that an essentially "desktop" environment will make a reasonable "phone" environment17:41
RST38hUnless you hack it or happen to have tablet hw Nokia prematurely rashed to the market17:42
GeneralAntillesMy only real "Symbian" experience is with a 6682, then briefly with an N80 and an N93i.17:42
lardmanRST38h: "Symbian" aka EPOC used to be very stable17:42
RST38hlardman: It is deadlock hell right now17:42
lardmanRST38h: shame Psion sold it on really17:42
GeneralAntillesjohnx, I guess we'll see what direction Fremantle moves us in.17:42
johnxRST38h, everyone's been hit with an app causing a power drain at one point or another, or a simple packaging mistake leading to a reboot loop17:42
GeneralAntillesjohnx, but that gap between "desktop" and "phone" is closing rather rapidly.17:43
RST38hlardman: The way Symbian works, it will remain deadlock hell17:43
Summeliehh, you shouldn't get deadlocks in symbian, because the activeobjects don't do that :)17:43
lardmanRST38h: as in the structure of the kernel?17:43
johnxGeneralAntilles, in terms of power yes, but in terms of what apps get to do, not really17:43
RST38hjohnx: drain: all the drain cases were tracked down to two-three apps17:43
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lardmanSummeli: well they certainly can do, as active objects are cooperatively multitasked17:43
johnxRST38h, if we only consider Nokia's included apps, then yes I believe that17:44
RST38hjohnx: packaging: same problem may occur with Symbian if you provide it with a screwed up package17:44
Summelilardman: no, they can not17:44
johnxheh, well, then I don't want a symbian phone either it seems17:44
lardmanSummeli: why not?17:44
Summelithats the whole reason they were invented in the first place17:44
Summelisafe way of doing things17:45
lardmanSummeli: Ah, I'm not takling about deadlocks in the real sense of the word, just that active objects can continue running for too long17:45
Summelideadlocks are for c-coders17:45
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Summeliwhen threads starve etc.17:45
lardmanyeah i agree with that17:46
Summeliyou have different problems in symbian ;-)17:46
lardmanthough if the code using the active object method is poorly written you just get really crap and slow code17:46
lardmans/code/interaction17:46
Summelilardman: i agree with that :)17:46
johnxI guess for me there is an inherent contradiction between having a hackable OS on a device I depend on17:47
RST38hlardman: Symbian is based on running system calls in separate threads17:47
Summelihowever they should make coding "easy"17:47
RST38hlardmanL Uses its own threading model, its own exception model17:47
RST38hlardman: It all sounds very advanced but in practice there is no way you can insure that this system will work effiociently and reliably17:48
lardmanRST38h: yes manager processes17:48
Veggenjohnx: Just because you can don't mean you would :)17:48
RST38hlardman: having said that, it is miles ahead of WinMobile17:48
lardmanRST38h: except that it used too, perhaps it doesn't now, I don't know17:48
lardmanI'd say the original version of Epoc was miles ahead of Linux for the task it was designed for17:48
Veggenjohnx: besides, a phone os more of a general computer nowadays, so making it easier to port to it would be a benefit.17:48
lardmancertainly in terms of memory usage17:49
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johnxVeggen, but given that it's depended upon I think the core OS should take some more active measures to make sure the device is usable17:49
Veggenyah, agreed.17:50
johnxwhich can be difficult enough without supporting mostly unmodified C code, which drags in a whole lump of random libraries17:50
Veggenvirtualization? core functionality runs on one virtual instance, user app on another, core functionality exports services to the user space?17:51
* RST38h throws up at the mention of virtualization17:51
Veggen...with hard prioritizing in the OS between the virtual instances.17:51
johnxRST38h, you *write* *emulators* :P17:51
RST38h(and then the virtual machien manager dies and takes all your cute little VMs with it)17:51
Veggendon't need to be full virtualization either. Something like openvz would be great.17:52
RST38hjohnx: Yes, but I never try virtualizing them =)17:52
VeggenRST38h: well. Sure. you'll make sure it's rarely necessary to modify on that one.17:52
johnxRST38h, well, then let's just run user stuff in an emulator :)17:52
RST38hjohnx: This is what Android does, doesn't it?17:52
johnxRST38h, kinda like that, but it doesn't have that nice retro feel :(17:53
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* johnx pictures using a phone that consists of a linux core, running user apps inside of a newton emulator17:56
lardmanargh, bug #98717:56
Stskeepsjohnx: http://repository.mer.tspre.org/17:59
RST38hjohnx: Why not go for the ZX Spectrum UI?17:59
johnxawesome!17:59
Stskeepscan you test the speed of that (mer apt)17:59
johnxsure, but it might not mean much17:59
johnxmy inet connection is pretty unreliable17:59
johnxs/unreliable/inconsistent/17:59
infobotjohnx meant: my inet connection is pretty inconsistent17:59
qwerty12But fast right? :D17:59
Stskeepsjohnx: meh, can't be worse than 2500b/s ..18:00
Stskeeps:P18:00
johnxwell, it *usually* isn't18:00
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GeneralAntillesWho ever thought something as simple as this would be some difficult to add? :\ https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=232618:01
qwerty12Knowing yerga, if the bastards didn't keep a trivial thing such as an applet closed, he'd have patched it himself18:02
johnxaverage of 220KB/s but it was up to almost 300KB/s for part of it18:02
Stskeepsjohnx: fine18:02
Stskeepsit'll be better when we get mirrors i guess18:02
Stskeepsi'll adjust the builders18:02
lardmanqwerty12: I guess it would be possible to write a replacement with the available info though18:03
johnxI have hildon-desktop w/ maemo-launcher support running on real ARM hardware :)18:03
RST38hSpeed contacts applet is useless anyway18:03
RST38htoo large font, too few contacts18:03
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, we should elect yerga as the maemo.org patchmaster. ;)18:03
GeneralAntillesRST38h, it was good previously18:03
GeneralAntillesCould add plenty of contacts18:04
GeneralAntillesThen they fucking broke it and now they refuse to fix it.18:04
RST38hThe first one I got to use was the one in Chinook and it already sicked18:04
RST38hs/sicked/sucked18:04
GeneralAntillesFor some reason they thought 4 contacts with avatars was more useful than 8 or 10 without.18:04
Stskeepsjohnx: it works now?18:04
qwerty12It's one thing keeping things like BME closed but keeping an contacts applet makes me want to smack the person who made that decision in the balls.18:05
johnxStskeeps, yeah, I linked with -pie18:05
Stskeepsjohnx: btw builder just went tits up :P18:05
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, it wouldn't be so bad if they weren't so retarded in the implementation.18:05
GeneralAntillesBut damn.18:05
qwerty12True :(18:05
StskeepsAdvanced Contacts?18:05
Stskeeps:P18:05
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qwerty12GeneralAntilles, Was the bora version good?18:05
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GeneralAntillesYou'd get better use of screen real estate by filling the space taken up by speed contacts for 4 contacts with clocks.18:05
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GeneralAntillesqwerty12, it was exactly like the current version, except with a useful number of contacts. ;)18:06
GeneralAntillesBecause no stupid avatars.18:06
GeneralAntilles"Avatars are more important than having friends" apparently.18:06
qwerty12hehe18:06
johnxStskeeps, no problem, anyways, was -export-dynamic getting eaten along with -shared ?18:06
Stskeepsjohnx: nop18:06
Stskeepsi just think -pie wasn't included18:06
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, when should I start playing with Mer? :P18:07
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: we're working on it :P18:07
johnxStskeeps, should work without -pie though, right? technically?18:07
johnxGeneralAntilles, what do you want to help with?18:07
Stskeepsjohnx: i think the issue is really that maemo-launcher cflags doesn't set correctly18:07
Stskeepsso no -fpie for example18:07
Stskeepsis it possible to combine -fpie and -fPIC?18:07
johnxhmm, the pkg-config looked right18:07
Stskeepsit has -pie in it?18:08
johnxno, it didn't but there should have been two ways, right?18:08
Stskeepsmm, true18:08
GeneralAntillesjohnx, PR? Documentation? :P18:08
johnxwith -shared or -pie?18:08
Stskeepsjohnx: i guess fix will be adding -pie in src/Makefile.am in h-d18:08
johnxGeneralAntilles, in that case, help by not attracting too many users right now :)18:08
johnxStskeeps, it can be added in debian/rules just fine18:09
Stskeepsk18:09
johnxLAUNCHER_LDFLAGS = -pie18:09
Stskeepstrue18:09
johnxtested, builds, runs18:09
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Stskeepsi'll add it to my branch - any other changes?18:09
GeneralAntillesjohnx, but I was gonna make a giant announcement on itT about Fremantle for N8x0 available right now. :P18:09
* johnx kries :(18:09
Stskeepsdear god18:09
* Stskeeps wants fremantle sdk18:10
Stskeeps:P18:10
Stskeepsatleast the alpha18:10
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GeneralAntilles"All signs point to some time before the end of the year." ;)18:10
johnxGeneralAntilles, I'd just run. I'd shave my head and join a WinMo forum if you sicked the users on me like that O_o;18:10
GeneralAntillesEhehe18:10
GeneralAntillesI think I'd also have to put together some really easy to use, but also really brittle install scripts.18:11
qwerty12How is mer installed? I do not want to replace the install on flash but I'm not averse to debootstrapping on an SD or mounting an jffs2 image and dumping the files straight on an SD.18:11
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lardmanStskeeps: patience18:11
GeneralAntillesHrm, I think my microwave is broken. :(18:11
johnxqwerty12, right now, i setup by debootstrapping ubuntu jaunty and installing the mer stuffs18:12
qwerty12cool18:12
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johnxone of the next things I do after a little more testing on hildon-desktop is to put up the first draft of a meta package that pulls in enough to run hildon-desktop18:14
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johnxStskeeps, do you think there's some advantage to staying close to Nokia's packaging of hildon-desktop or does it seem reasonable to mostly borrow Debian's?18:15
qwerty12Burn netsplit, burn!18:15
johnxI figured they were running from my meta-package :)18:16
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qwerty12johnx, Not for long it seems :P18:16
johnx<johnx> Stskeeps, do you think there's some advantage to staying close to Nokia's packaging of hildon-desktop or does it seem reasonable to mostly borrow Debian's?18:16
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Stskeepsjohnx: what were the differences again?18:17
johnxone sec18:18
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johnxbasically, that the debian one has a much cleaner rules file18:20
johnxand already has the init stuff removed and switched to start-hildon18:20
Stskeepsfine - and i guess there's some dependancies removied?18:21
johnxwell, the lack of dependency on the whole hildon-initscripts osso-af-startup is the only one it seems18:22
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Stskeepsk18:23
johnxalso, the package layout is more debian than Nokia :)18:24
johnxso far, moving it forward from 2.0.7 to 2.0.19 was almost no work, so I don't see big problems continuing to follow Nokia's hildon-desktop with the debian/ from Debian18:25
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Meiz_n810Jauntys packages.gz is one meg bigger than hastys... still no LXDE or MID packages...18:29
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johnxMeiz_n810, whip out that compiler :D18:29
Meiz_n810:)18:30
StsN800of course it starts hailing at the same time my server stops answering..18:30
Meiz_n810i wanna port something to mer. I am now debootstrapping jaunty on my ubuntu-box.18:31
Meiz_n810well, at least try to18:31
johnxwell, I'll push hildon-desktop to lp and if you want to take a look you can, but at this point it seems to work perfectly18:31
johnxMeiz_n810, that sounds absolutely great! The more the merrier :D18:31
qwerty12johnx, well, I just installed the "SDK" :D. Any requests?18:31
johnxqwerty12, whatever you think is needed.18:32
StsN800trac/mer repo is down .. going to go reboot it in 518:32
Meiz_n810i got forbidden18:33
GeneralAntillesShould Maemo-Upgrade-Description offer "pretty" formatting?18:33
qwerty12I have no idea of how any of this works nor what packages would be nice. Ah well, I'll leave it installed as an option but time to go back to some maemo modding :)18:33
johnxqwerty12, alright, alright. How about a browser :)18:34
GeneralAntillesIt'd be a lot more user friendly to display a clean bulleted list instead of a bunch of * ... * ...18:34
qwerty12johnx, Sure! apt-get source links :P18:34
johnxI was thinking about something already hildonized. :P maybe midori? or tear?18:35
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qwerty12I'll try midori, compiling tear will require me to compile webkit and I don't have the copious amounts of caffeine needed to keep me awake :)18:36
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johnxqwerty12, you're building on x86, right?18:37
qwerty12johnx, yep18:38
johnxit should be built in jaunty18:38
qwerty12root@faheem-desktop:/# cat /etc/lsb-release18:38
qwerty12DISTRIB_ID=Ubuntu18:38
qwerty12DISTRIB_RELEASE=9.0418:38
qwerty12DISTRIB_CODENAME=jaunty18:38
qwerty12DISTRIB_DESCRIPTION="Ubuntu jaunty (development branch)"18:38
qwerty12root@faheem-desktop:/# ls18:38
qwerty12 :)18:38
johnxor is there a maemo specific fork of webkit for tear?18:38
qwerty12No, Bundyo is using the old one in chinook extras18:39
GeneralAntillesIt's really old these days.18:39
johnxah, and a new one won't just drop in?18:39
woglindejohnx hm maybee the new qt 4.5 packages have it18:39
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qwerty12johnx, Bundyo no idea, I know Bundyo got the new one to compile for Diablo but some problem or other18:39
qwerty12s/Bundyo/I have/18:39
infobotqwerty12 meant: johnx, I have no idea, I know Bundyo got the new one to compile for Diablo but some problem or other18:39
johnxhmmm, qt "auto-hildonizes" stuff, right?18:39
woglindejohny jupp18:41
woglindeor better gtkstyled18:41
qwerty12Something like that, I think menubar, "main window" & input method is done18:41
woglindeand hildonized18:41
johnxthis might be extremely awesome :)18:41
johnxmaybe I should try to get maemo qt4 packaged and install arora :)18:43
woglindehehe18:43
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johnxwell, it would make a good test18:44
woglindehopefully it will work18:44
qwerty12grr, stupid rules file uses cdbs.18:44
johnxwell, even if it doesn't work, it's valueable to find roadblocks early :)18:45
woglindeqwerty na18:45
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qwerty12woglinde, cdbs makes me want to shoot myself and the person who devised it :)18:46
johnxyeah, I'm a big fan of plain old dh_make now18:46
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johnxI might as well start with qt4.5 I suppose18:47
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Stskeepsthere we go18:49
johnxso your server is outside in the hail?18:50
johnxdid you bring it inside? :P18:50
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Stskeepshehe.. have some problems with the HD cables i suspect, so it dies rather than loosing data, which is fine18:50
mikkov_cdbs isn't that bad, it just doesn't work on maemo ;)18:52
johnxhmm, you mean scratchbox or maemo?18:53
Stskeepsqwerty12: we have vala in mer already just fyi, (regarding Tear)18:53
mikkov_scratchbox18:53
qwerty12oh, I can build/modify packages using it fine, just the syntax pisses me off. I don't understand for example why I have to use CFLAGS_packagename instead of a plain CFLAGS = etc18:53
qwerty12Stskeeps, cool18:54
johnxStskeeps, I think as a break from hildon-desktop I'll try bringing in maemo QT4.5 :)18:54
Stskeepsk18:55
qwerty12Stskeeps, do you have h-a-m in Mer? (Asking so I know whether I should include maemo-select-menu-location in the postinst)18:55
Stskeepsqwerty12: not yet, atleast, feel free to see if it compiles :P18:55
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qwerty12k :)18:56
johnxqwerty12, just got hildon-desktop running a couple minutes ago. you're pretty much left with a main menu that has nothing in it :)18:57
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qwerty12johnx, :)18:58
johnxactually, running hildon-desktop inside a chroot turns out to be less than straightforward18:58
johnxborrowing that osso-af-startup.sh (or whatever...) script from scratchbox might make it work though18:58
qwerty12af-sb-init?18:59
johnxright, that :)18:59
* johnx sighs19:00
johnxaf-sb-init might need to be modified though19:00
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Stskeepsjohnx: xephyr or not?19:02
* johnx is a little fuzzy on where qt4.5 is in the svn repo...19:02
Stskeepsqt4-maemo.garage?19:02
johnxXephyr isn't a problem19:02
Stskeepsor the likes19:02
johnxwell, qt4.4 is in svn, and qt4.5 is only available as a package AFAICT19:02
Stskeepsis it in extras?19:03
johnxextras-devel19:03
johnxqt4.5 preview19:03
johnxanyways, I'll just go from the source packages there19:04
Stskeepsk19:04
Stskeepssomething tells me qt4.5 building on jaiku builders will make them keel over19:04
johnxuhm, qt is ... big19:04
johnxStskeeps, I'll keep it local for now19:04
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johnxI'm already dying a little inside at the thought of how bzr will cope with this source tree19:05
Stskeepshehe19:07
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* Stskeeps notes that repository.mer.tspre.org and repository.mer.maemo.org is way too similar.19:16
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lopz19:17
lopzHirvinen, how can I move to the next track console? as does audtool of audacious, I want to control the player from console19:17
lopzhi*19:18
* lopz slap tab19:18
Stskeepsjohnx: builder much faster at actually getting packages now :P19:19
kost-bebixHi! Is there a way to format internal flash drive to fat32 if system on tablet is broken? I tried to install diablo to my n810 when vfat on internal card was broken. I thought it will format internal sd, but it didn't and now tablet is some kind of "dead" (19:19
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kost-bebixOr should I go to some service center and ask them to format internal drive? (I think diablo will then install fine)19:20
johnxkost-bebix, there are two internal drives. The one formatted as fat is just storage space. The actual OS is installed to a 256MB flash memory chip19:21
johnxWhat exactly do you mean by "dead"?19:21
kost-bebixjohnx: I mean system on it is broken and it can't be turned on (it reboots all the time). One second, I'll find my post to mail-list19:22
lopzany ideas?19:22
Stskeepskost-bebix: does it show the nokia logo?19:23
johnxlopz, there is a dbus interface: http://www.gossamer-threads.com/lists/maemo/developers/4219719:23
johnxlopz, maybe you could use that information with dbus-send?19:24
kost-bebixStskeeps: yep. I can even try to install diablo through usb (it loads the kernel, but then shows error)19:24
johnxkost-bebix, what error exactly?19:24
kost-bebixhere it is http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-users/2008-November/036009.html19:24
lopzjohnx, hi, The idea is to control the player bluetooth19:25
kost-bebixBecause everyone who had similar error were just typing -r instead of -F. When they typed -F everything worked (but not for me :-(19:26
johnxkost-bebix, it looks like it finished19:26
johnxbut after that it doesn't boot?19:26
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kost-bebixjohnx: no. It stays on nokia boot image. And after about 30 seconds reboots... and again and again19:27
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kost-bebixjohnx: Sending request 0x52 failed! is the error while installing diablo.19:27
johnxkost-bebix, but it prints that *after* it finishes flashing19:28
kost-bebixjohnx: yes)19:28
johnxdid you have other problems before you reflashed?19:28
johnxit could be a hardware problem19:28
kost-bebixjohnx: no. Only broken vfat on mcc119:28
kost-bebixjohnx: as I already said, people who typed -r instead -F had similar simptoms (it finished flashing), but still wasn't working.19:29
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Stskeepsjohnx: think we'll stick with repo upload being at trac.tspre.org - upload seems fine, download is just crap :P19:30
lopzjohnx,  Using mplayer, I can not control console, without using keys? something like, for example mplayer --next-song19:31
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johnxlopz, look up mplayer slave mode19:32
johnxkost-bebix, I've gotten the same error message before and my tablet booted after that. You could try reflashing again I guess19:33
lopzjohnx, ok, thanks :)19:33
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Stskeepsheh19:33
Stskeepsjohnx: http://labs.o-hand.com/xoo/19:33
kost-bebixjohnx: thanx. Maybe I'll try install another (earlier) version of diablo.19:34
johnxStskeeps, sounds good. about to pull the trigger on qt4.5 build and go to bed19:34
johnxkost-bebix, that's not the problem ...19:34
johnxthe latest version is fine19:34
johnxStskeeps, that looks pretty cool actually19:34
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Stskeepsjohnx: k, i'll work on improving our "developer tools", i think19:35
Stskeepsdid you get it going in chroot?19:35
kost-bebixjohnx: well, I tried to reinstall that several times. What if it won't work, can I request another n810 from company? Or if I tried to reinstall software I can't do that anymore?19:36
johnxhildon-desktop? not yet19:36
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Stskeepsk19:36
johnxkost-bebix, yes, if your device doesn't work you should get Nokia to replace it. installing software doesn't affect your warranty19:36
kost-bebixjohnx: thanks a lot!)19:37
kost-bebixit's a good news for me :-)19:37
b1ackd3athdose any one know make the boot menu come up with out holding down the home key?19:37
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johnxb1ackd3ath, I don't think it's possible. may I ask why you want to do that?19:38
Stskeepsjohnx: .. editing linuxrc probably does the trick19:38
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b1ackd3athso it dosnt boot into the the default flash right away19:39
b1ackd3athcuz id rather boot on to my external mmc card19:40
johnxyou've hear of fanoush's bootmenu, right?19:40
b1ackd3athim using it19:40
b1ackd3athi guess i could just change the order of the mdnu19:40
b1ackd3ath*menu19:40
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b1ackd3athbut i was mainly woundering  about the no having to press the home key19:42
b1ackd3ath*not ug my n810 keyboard is messing up my type o's sorry19:43
johnxI don't have to on mine...that's why I thought you weren't using it19:43
Meiz_n810Bootmenu have always been showed on my n810, i have never pressed the home key to use it19:43
b1ackd3athso by best bet is to just modify intifs19:44
b1ackd3athyeh thats what i'll do19:44
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b1ackd3athhas any on changed there /etc/systemui/systemui.xml to add the reboot option?19:47
qwerty12yes, works fine.19:47
b1ackd3athon the internal flash too?19:47
b1ackd3athcuz i cant get mine to work i got it to work on the default flash os but not my internal flash19:48
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b1ackd3athbe right back gonna reboot my n81019:50
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b1ackd3athback nvm19:52
b1ackd3athrebooting made it come up19:52
b1ackd3athanyone have any trouble with the advanced power manager?19:53
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qwerty12Fuck. I have to learn where the lock screen and hibernate button is >.<19:56
Proteous...19:57
johnxalright, qt4.5 is starting to build, and I'm gonna catch some sleep19:57
johnx'night all19:58
Stskeepsnini19:59
b1ackd3athpc im out too takes for the help19:59
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Stskeepsjohnx: i'll stage hildon-desktop and build it on builders20:04
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Meiz_n810if i add deb-src http://repository.maemo.org/ diablo free non-free, will i be able to apt-get source maemo packages?20:06
qwerty12no20:07
qwerty12deb-src http://repository.maemo.org/ diablo/sdk free20:07
Meiz_n810then i can port maemo things for mer?20:07
qwerty12oh, yeah, with the proper deb-src line, yes apt-get source will work20:07
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StskeepsMeiz_n810: you're better off just grabbing the .dsc .diff.gz and .tar.gz from the /pool directories really20:09
StskeepsMeiz_n810: there's a guide for it on the blueprint page20:09
Meiz_n810k20:09
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Stskeepsyou can try out with applications in extras first, probably more interesting20:09
Stskeeps(http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/diablo/)20:10
Stskeepssource is in http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/diablo/free/source/20:10
Meiz_n810what app should i try first :)20:10
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Stskeepsadvanced backlight20:11
Stskeeps:P20:11
Stskeepsthat's usually our test app20:11
Meiz_n810ok20:11
Meiz_n810i'll try20:11
Stskeeps.. but ok, that one might not apply on i38620:11
Stskeepssec20:11
Meiz_n810i'll still try20:11
Meiz_n810<--- Really n00b with things like this... :)20:12
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Stskeeps.. try to find one that makes sense, simple hildon app, i guess20:12
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Stskeepsmaemo mapper is out of the question cos of gpsbt20:13
Meiz_n810k20:13
qwerty12Stskeeps, please, please can I port an hildonized hello world?20:13
Stskeepsqwerty12: go ahead :P20:13
Stskeepsmaemopad? :P20:13
qwerty12wheee!!!!20:13
qwerty12hehe20:15
lcukport liqbase, its only small20:16
* lcuk laughs evily20:16
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* qwerty12 adds in a northerner notice for liqbase mer edition20:16
qwerty12now it's my turn to laugh :P20:17
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qwerty12But I see the <lame> humor is not share20:17
* qwerty12 shuts the fuck up20:17
lcukheh20:17
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etrunkocool picture20:25
etrunkohttp://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2008/12/n97_maemo_494.jpg20:25
etrunkofrom http://feeds.gawker.com/~r/gizmodo/full/~3/R5ASCqY2G8k/nokias-down-with-making-a-high+end-open-source-phone-just-not-with-android20:26
GeneralAntillesTotally invalid use of that logo. . . .20:27
Stskeepshehe20:27
Stskeeps"Maemophone"20:27
GeneralAntillesAnybody feel like pulling up one of the "The next tablet's pricing will be mostly inline with current hardware" quotes?20:28
GeneralAntillesQole is being babyish about it.20:28
Stskeepsif it doesn't have voice in it, it should definately be below n97 pricing20:29
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, These channels are logged.20:29
Stskeeps:>20:29
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, :P20:29
qwerty12hehe :P20:29
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GeneralAntillesOh well, he can believe me or not. One of us will be proven wrong when RX-51 is finally out. :P20:30
GeneralAntillesMan, Igor and fanoush and Mark can't pull his head out of his own ass.20:31
Stskeepswhere's the trouble these times?20:31
GeneralAntilles-users, as usual. :P20:31
Stskeepss/these/this/20:31
Stskeepsah.20:31
infobotStskeeps meant: where's the trouble this times?20:31
GeneralAntilleshttp://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-users/2008-December/036046.html20:32
Stskeepsyeah, readin'20:32
Stskeepswell that was a couple of minutes wasted of my time20:33
GeneralAntillesHehe20:33
GeneralAntillesNobody held a gun to your head. :P20:34
GeneralAntillesHrm, I don't have any tasks to pick up for December.20:34
* qwerty12 disables the missiles pointed at Stskeeps 20:34
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: community distribution: collaboration, structure/management maybe, how should one be managed and formed? I mean, what i've seen is just proposals on what it should include..20:42
Stskeepsbut not how it's managed and structured/manned20:42
Stskeeps(vision stuff, not right-here-and-now)20:42
GeneralAntillesHrm, I dunno.20:42
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GeneralAntillesI kinda want something concrete to start happening before I kick off anything like that.20:43
Stskeepsyeah, of course, just putting it out there cos i'm starting have thoughts in that direction20:43
Stskeepscos any distribution keels over without proper structure when it attracts enough attention20:43
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qwerty12Stskeeps, I've got a dirty build of maemo mapper... but I've to gtfo of my computer now >.<20:44
Stskeepshehe, okay20:44
qwerty12any way of testing in a i386 chroot or will I have to compile on device :)?20:45
GeneralAntillesHrm, well.20:45
GeneralAntillesetrunko's got some of that with https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Collaboration_infrastructure20:45
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: i would assume it would be possible to start dbus daemons and use xephyr or something in chroot.. but im not sure, johnx was on that20:46
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: but alone maemo mapper compiling, dirtily, is a good sign20:46
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, I dunno if I feel like breaking it up into smaller chunks for this Sprint20:47
qwerty12_N800while libgpsmgr are closed, redistribution is allowed20:48
GeneralAntillesBut if we want to start pushing Variants and Collaboration infrastructure, I'm all in. :)20:48
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: collaboration infrastructure and variants is definately a topic to be worked on20:48
Stskeepscollaboration and publishing branches for maemo (OS) should be as easy as it is on launchpad20:50
Stskeepsif you want access to fool around on Mer launchpad (mer launchpad -is- a experimental part of the project too), you can just say :P20:50
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qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, version control isn't my thing :)20:51
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: i've really learnt to appreciate it.. bzr also has local branches which helps a lot20:55
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qwerty12_N800:)20:56
Stskeepsso you can commit to your local branch and then push to the public one20:57
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gnutonHi there20:57
GeneralAntillesHey, gnuton.20:58
gnutonHello GeneralAntilles ! :D20:58
woglindehi gnuton20:59
gnutonHey woglinde20:59
gnuton:D20:59
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* lcuk ninja flying kick21:00
woglindelcuk haha21:00
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, You may want to take a look at maemo's libfontconfig (if you haven't done so already) - it has the important device_symbols.h file21:00
woglindelcuk you fall down on your butt21:01
woglindewill21:01
lcukoh hiya woglinde i guess that was the wrong chan ;)21:01
lcukmmm qwerty libfontconfig21:01
lcukis that a normal thing and does it enum the fonts in the system?21:01
* Jaffa train spods21:02
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: device_symbols does what?21:03
lcukjaffa? typo or have you stopped training pods now21:03
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lcukahhh21:04
* Jaffa is spodding from the the train21:04
woglindetrain spotting21:04
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, "defines unicode values for device symbols of hardware buttons" - i presume maemo-mapper needs it for its all important ability to manipulate the map etc21:05
lcuk"Spodding" is also a specific common verb used in fishing to denote the use of a "Spod" or "Spod Rocket" to deliver lose feed for fish to a specific area of a water or river for the purposes of fishing.21:05
lcukmmmm is that legal from a moving train?21:05
JaffaGeneralAntilles: you chairing the 2000 UTC meeting tonight?21:06
GeneralAntillesYeah I guess I should.21:06
* GeneralAntilles forgot about that.21:06
lcukto be clear, this meeting, is it in 55minutes21:06
GeneralAntillesIt is.21:06
woglinde*g*21:06
GeneralAntillesThis should help, though. https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_Sprints ;)21:06
* lcuk hates utc21:06
Jaffalcuk: Probably the more "do computery things, spc. online MUDs, talkers and IRC"21:07
woglindelcuk why?21:07
* GeneralAntilles has to duck out for a bit, will be back.21:07
lcuki want my computer to automatically translate all times and dates into northern21:07
qwerty12_N800lcuk, works for me as we're +0000 atm :)21:07
lcukfor now21:07
Jaffalcuk: eight o'clock,lad. Be back from down t'pit by then, or yersen'll be late21:08
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: a21:08
Stskeepsh21:08
* lcuk pushes for a proper true northern dialect en-nt21:08
lardmanqwerty12_N800: I think he means, "ee uup lad, in the moorning" or similar... ;)21:08
qwerty12_N800lol21:08
lardmanall at once we attack lcuk :)21:08
lcukaye thanks thar jaffa, shall just have time to duck in'th tub as long as me dad n gradnda 'ave finished21:09
lcukyou southern jessies couldnt handle it21:09
lcuki was out in the snow iwth only a vest, tshirt, jumper and coat today!21:09
qwerty12_N800yeah, yeah...21:10
JaffaPfft, I'm from Macclesfield I'll have yer know. Ye don't want a Macc Lad on yer case ;-p21:10
lcuk:D you must like your beer n sex n chips n gravy then :D21:10
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qwerty12_N800Us East London boiz do the best ting with our zut's n' shanks. i'll fuk up manchester & macclesfield rascal :p21:11
Jaffalcuk: spot on21:11
woglindewahahaa21:11
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: auch @ argument by ignorance21:11
Proteouswhat is a jumper?21:12
* lardman doesn't say anything about being 1/2 Australian, I think that's in the South somewhere...21:13
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lcukProteous, knitted sweater21:13
Proteousah21:14
Proteousso no trousers?21:14
lcuklardman, didnt know that , were you born up here or down there?21:14
lcukProteous, i suppose you could use a jumper as your trousers, but it would look a bit daft21:14
Proteouswell, you didn't say you were wearing anything over your legs21:14
lardmanlcuk: up here21:14
lardmanwhere's the component versions list gone to?21:15
lcukcool, ist here much family down there to have an excuse to get away from the weather21:15
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lardmanlcuk: yeah loads over there, not much here other than immediate21:15
qwerty12_N800lardman, http://repository.maemo.org/stable/diablo/4.1_vs_4.1.1_content_changes.html21:16
lardmanthanks qwerty12_N80021:16
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JaffaNext summit in .au, then ;-)21:17
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lardmansounds ideal to me :)21:17
lcukwe might need another maemo bugmaster, some of the insects down there are bad21:17
JaffaYour relatives' house for a barbie?21:17
lardmanJaffa: sure :)21:18
lcukjaffa, its worth way more than a barbie, include a ken as well21:18
Meiz_n810ported mediabox...21:18
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Proteouswhat about the beach house21:18
StskeepsMeiz_n810: compiled without issue?21:18
Meiz_n810yes21:18
Meiz_n810is there a log i can view you21:19
lardmanProteous: bbq on the beach then?21:19
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Proteousat the barbie beach house?21:19
Proteouscount me in21:19
Proteousonly if I can drive the barbie convertable21:19
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: honestly i have no idea if it should work now, it gave me some warnings...21:20
lcukok smithers21:20
* lardman presses ctrl-- repeatedly to see if Proteous can fit21:20
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StskeepsMeiz_n810: warnings are the norm :P it probably doesn't work on i386 that well21:20
Meiz_n810k21:20
* lcuk starts his code timer21:20
Stskeepsi'll set up a /extras repository eventually, but good that it ported without big issues21:21
Meiz_n810should i upload it to launchpad?21:21
Stskeepsjaiku that you succeeded in building it21:21
Stskeepssince you didn't have to edit source upload isn't needed i guess21:21
Meiz_n810k21:21
Stskeeps(keep the .deb and .tar.gz and .changes)21:21
RST38hStskeeps <--- the evil twin of the whole Nokia Maemo team21:22
Meiz_n810#reconstructedPOC?21:22
StskeepsRST38h: shadow maemo sw21:22
Meiz_n810or merbuilder?21:22
StskeepsMeiz_n810: yeah21:22
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Meiz_n810k21:22
Stskeeps(r-poc)21:22
yergaGeneralAntilles, I deserve that title ;)21:22
Stskeepsyeah, i'm inclined to think so too :P21:23
* Stskeeps tries debootstrapping ubuntu, again.21:23
Stskeepshttp://labs.o-hand.com/xoo/ , quite neat :>21:23
Stskeeps(i know it's silly, but still)21:23
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* lcuk cant believe how much of liqbase has been ripped to shreds21:26
* lcuk is left with a single purple rectangle21:26
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woglindelcuk lol21:27
lardmanhttp://www.ti-estore.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=dEmbSoft21:27
lardmanyow, I wonder if that's a single device license...?21:27
lardmans/license/licence21:27
lcukoh crap, thought i was #liqbase blogging lol woglinde, ive gutted lb and am rebuilding furiously21:27
Proteouswake up~!21:28
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* GeneralAntilles is back.21:28
lcuklardman, what are you after from there21:28
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lcukand have you got a voucher21:29
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lcuk / discount code21:29
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, auch?21:29
lardmanlcuk: was following a random link from the web21:29
woglindeah damnit21:29
woglindejoost is broken somehow21:29
lcukahh21:30
qwerty12_N800boost?21:30
RST38hlcuq21:30
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: good one :P21:30
lcuklardman, these are more in line21:30
lcukhttp://www.ti-estore.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=CTGY&Category_Code=dLiterature21:30
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woglindehttp://www.joost.com21:33
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qwerty12_N800ah, my bad, cool21:33
* Stskeeps loathes joost21:34
Stskeeps:P21:34
woglindewanted to see another episode of one of anime series21:34
* qwerty12_N800 has an addiction to the boost energy drink. made in Leeds too, damn northerners :p21:34
woglindeboost library21:34
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Meiz_n810I also compiled mytube for mer. but is it even needed?21:37
Meiz_n810(should it install without rebuilding)21:37
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lcukis mer actually running hildon now?21:39
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Meiz_n810yes, it is possible21:42
StskeepsMeiz_n810: i'll work a bit on getting boot scripts and such up21:43
Stskeepsand so you can test on i38621:43
qwerty12_N800whee (qwerty12 wants to see if maemo-mapper shits out on him wth a segfault :P)21:44
Stskeepswaiting on apt-get stuff on my own stuff atm :P21:44
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: ok21:44
Stskeepsand wondering why i get 1000kb/s download..21:44
Stskeeps:P21:44
Meiz_n810:P21:45
Meiz_n810i get max 56.9 kb/s21:45
Stskeepsi usually get max 200k/s21:45
Stskeeps:P21:45
Meiz_n810i live in the middle of nowhere21:45
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Stskeepsat least you have dsl. :P21:46
Meiz_n810adls21:46
Meiz_n810*sl21:46
Meiz_n810in 2011 they will get cables outta here21:46
Meiz_n810then i have to use 5kb/s GPRS21:47
lcukis there a simple way to close hildon entirely or prevent it from running in the first place21:49
woglinderm -rf21:49
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qwerty12_N800lcuk, but still have x running?21:49
lcuki should add i want to be able to re-run it later21:49
lcukyeah21:49
lcukif i go down the ps list my machine reboots21:49
qwerty12_N800qole does it with the debian stuff & penguinbait does it with kde21:50
lcukmmm ill take a look21:50
lcukmight get a little less variation with stuff21:50
lcukthen again i might just leave it21:50
qwerty12_N800if you want to experiment killing programs, easy way is to set the no-lifeguard-reset rd flag21:51
lcukbut thats not a users device21:51
lcuki wont know what works and what doesnt21:51
lcukie whats required and whats not21:51
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qwerty12_N800if you look through the android section, there is a list of what you can kill without the n8x0 rebooting21:52
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lcuki could also find it inside /etc somewhere cant i21:53
lcukinit.d rings a bell?21:53
lcukhuzzah it looks right21:53
qwerty12_N800/etc/rc2.d contains the items that are started by n8x0 when booting from battery21:54
lcukwhat are the other rcX.d things?21:55
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qwerty12_N800not really relevant on maemo except for rc5.d  which programs in there are started when  booting with charger in. rest is debian standard runlevels21:57
lcukahhh cool, thank you former northern but now southern jessie boy21:58
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qwerty12_N800grr, :P21:58
lcukright, i must vanish, ill leave the apps running for now, but it would be interesting to find the total core minimal subset of apps required to run an x app at some point21:59
* qwerty12_N800 is he reduced his time to make proper dbus-send cmd lines from 30m to 5m :p 22:00
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qwerty12_N800^glad22:01
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CerealKiller_713Hey I just installed the kde boot but I was in kde when I did it .... now I am getting the loop at the start22:04
CerealKiller_713Is there any way to fix this with out recloning and redownloading ?22:05
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CerealKiller_713I can still use the flash but my mmc is looping .... please help !22:06
dnearylardman: you're in London?22:06
* lcuk forgot about the meeting22:07
woglindeah joost is working again22:07
qwerty12_N800lcuk, +1 :/22:07
CerealKiller_713<~~~ US ( I wish i was in London )22:08
Meiz_n810libtoolize: command not found... Where can i get libtoolize?22:08
lardmandneary: no, Bath22:08
qwerty12_N800to say it started at 20:00 UTC, it's a hive of activity :)22:08
woglindeMeiz_n810 install libtool22:08
dnearylardman: Shower, usually22:08
dnearyBut I do occasionally like to soak22:08
Meiz_n810woglinde: thanks22:08
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tekojoqwerty12: waiting for everyone to be there :-)22:09
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qwerty12_N800tekojo, ah :)22:09
Meiz_n810okay aclocal-1.7 is mising too... where can i get that :L22:09
woglinde1.7?22:10
woglindemuaha22:10
woglindestone age22:10
Meiz_n810k22:10
lm2_510hey y'all. where can I find list of those "flick"/"throw" motions that change cases without shifting?22:10
CerealKiller_713is there anone in here that knows the comand to uninstall the kde boot.deb ?????22:11
lm2_510I'd like to know what *other* flick/throw commands there are22:11
StskeepsMeiz_n810: autoconf, automake22:12
Meiz_n810thanks22:13
Meiz_n810Stskeeps: i already have them22:14
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StskeepsMeiz_n810: autoconf-1.7 installable too, or autoconf1.722:15
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Meiz_n810ok22:15
Meiz_n810there is no 1.7 version of autoconf installable22:16
Stskeepssure? :P22:17
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Meiz_n810Stskeeps:22:18
Meiz_n810root@tietokone:/mer/load-applet/load-applet-0.8.2# apt-cache search autoconf autoconf - automatic configure script builder22:18
Meiz_n810shit22:18
Meiz_n810wait22:18
Stskeepsok, i mean automake1.7 (or automake-1.7)22:18
Meiz_n810ok22:18
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l7hmm, can giving the processor too much to do at once cause a spontaneous reboot?22:28
l7i was using reduced procesor performance mode while downloading a file with links and trying to open a new tab in roxterm22:28
l7when the system rebooted22:29
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woglindel7 could be wlan driver22:29
l7hmm22:29
l7all my other spontaneous reboots seem to have been related to periods of high activity too22:29
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lcukl7, if you run in powersave mode perhaps you are hiting the watchdog cos it hasnt got enough time to poll everything22:30
l7sounds plausible to me... i guess i could file a bug report under the wlan driver22:30
lcukdoes it do same in normal cpu mode22:30
l7watchdog cos?22:30
l7i guess i'd have to do some more tests22:31
l7i think it did also crash in normal cpu mode22:31
l7the trick is getting the right combination of events that will replicate the bug consistantly right?22:31
l7also, something else weird happened22:32
l7i was running from an SD card22:32
l7but it rebooted into flash when i didn't hit the menu key in time22:32
l7but the boot sequence got stuck in the middle of booting from flash and the machine shut down22:33
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l7booting from sd worked fine afterwards, but it's an interesting bug that i haven't seen before22:33
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l7hmm, i tried downloading a video from links, opening a tab in roxterm and launching mplayer22:37
l7no crash this time22:37
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l7i think it tends to crash more if there's some uptime on the system22:38
l7maybe some kind of combination of memory lost from memory leaks or whatever contributes to instability22:38
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lardmanyay! Australia are beating the Ba-bas :)22:44
qwerty12_N800Go on you Aussies! :)22:45
lardman~curse Sky for having the rights to lots of rugby matches22:46
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, Sky for having the rights to lots of rugby matches !22:46
qwerty12_N800No Sky Sports for you either? :(22:46
lardmanX-Fade: what's wrong with you?22:47
l7hmm  osso_startup_greeting is a neat command to play with22:47
lardmanqwerty12_N800: no chance, credit crunch an all ;)22:47
l7maybe handy if you're testing startup themes22:47
qwerty12_N800lardman, hah22:47
lardmanqwerty12_N800: but mainly as I'd prefer to do stuff rather than have to sit in front of TV to get my money's worth22:47
X-Fadelardman: Yeah, some virus or whatever. Been in bed for 2 days now.22:47
qwerty12_N800lardman, bittorrent is my sky box office :)22:48
lardmanX-Fade: oh, sorry to hear that, get well soon22:48
lardmanqwerty12_N800: yeah, I'll be looking out on emule for that rugby match in another hour or so22:48
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X-Fadelardman: I'll survive ;)22:49
qwerty12_N800lardman, hehe, the queues on ed2k put me off... #4210...22:49
qwerty12_N800+ I miss Razorback (the original) :(22:49
lardmanI want to watch 24, DVD seems pretty dear still22:51
* lardman has never seen any of it22:51
derfIt's highlarious.22:55
lardmannot worth watching then?22:56
derfIt's worth watching if you like comedies.22:56
lardmanPeople do seem to talk about it a fair bit still, I should watch an hour or two at least22:56
lardmanthe 1st and last probably :)22:57
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derfNah, you'll spoil the Big Reveal.22:57
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l7hmm, maybe it was the wlan driver23:01
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l7i tried opening a tab and opening mplayer while links was downloading a video file23:02
l7and then the desktop crashed in a funny way, such that applications still worked, but could not be accessed after they were minimized23:03
l7desktop still shows all your applets, but you can't load anything23:03
l7and you can't ssh in either23:03
RST38hI bet something is taking all the CPU23:03
l7trying to ping the tablet results in "Host is down"23:03
l7well maybe... but i was still able to use roxterm23:04
l7i couldn't get back to it after minimizing it though23:04
l7i wonder if it's a problem with roxterm or links23:04
l7i have noticed that downloading large files seems to tie up the processor23:05
l7wget may leave your system slightly more usable while downloading23:05
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Stskeepsooh. found out how to make python-jaiku send to a channel.23:17
Proteouslookout23:19
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cowbellemooWould this be the appropriate place to ask a support question or is it strictly a dev channel?23:22
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Stskeepscowbellemoo: .. it ranges23:25
cowbellemoo: /23:26
Stskeepsso just ask, if you get ignored, then noone either has an answer or wants to answer :)23:26
cowbellemoommmkay.23:26
l7 hmm, anyone know of a good database of flash media speeds?23:27
l7this nice little USB stick is getting 8-9MB/s23:27
l7quality seems to vary drastically though23:27
Meiz_n81017: wikipedia23:28
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l7Meiz_n810: which page / section?23:29
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cowbellemooI have MediaServ (with tablet-encode) set up to stream video.  It works -- but only half the time.  Once launching a video, I get "media file not found" errors from Media Player on my n810 even though I can see mencoder plugging along on the video file on my server. I thought it might be a filename or format glitch, but that doesn't seem to be the case after testing.  Can anyone shed some light?23:29
l7http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital_card#SDHC seems to have a link to hjreggel.net which is somewhat good23:30
l7and a ton of other stuff that's not23:30
Jaffacowbellemoo: you could try upping the thread timeout from 30s. Alternatively, is there a pattern of filenames?23:31
JaffaWorst case, can you send me logs and stuff (andrew@bleb.org)23:31
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cowbellemooJaffa: Not that I can tell.  I can have a season of a show with uniform filenames, size, and format but have some stream and others not.23:32
cowbellemooJaffa: would the log be in .Mediaserv?23:33
Jaffacowbellemoo: same stream intermiitently?23:33
Jaffacowbellemoo: /tmp, IIRC.23:33
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cowbellemooJaffa: Not sure.  I think only once when I've retried a stream has it gone through on 2nd attempt.  Whenever I can start a stream, the file plays fine (no interruptions)23:34
cowbellemooJaffa: let me see if I can pull the log23:34
Jaffacowbellemoo: might have to be via mail - bed soon23:35
cowbellemooJaffa: I'll try the timeout option and look through the log (didn't know it kept one!) on my own for now, but thanks for pointing me in the right direction.23:38
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