IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2008-12-02

derf(of course, that entry was last updated in 1999)00:00
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GAN800Claws' issue is that it's absolutely attrocious to use with a finger.00:02
timelessGAN800: see query:GeneralAntilles00:02
derfWell, right now the only client I can actually use is webmail.00:02
ds3I donno about imap, I just use pop00:02
derfSo, you know, that's not tough to beat in terms of finger-friendliness.00:02
GAN800timeless I'm 250 miles away from my desktop with no easy VNC access at the moment.00:02
ds3yes, Claws has cosmetic issues but so far it has been consistant00:03
ds3modest seems to randomly notify about new mails and likes eatting some of it in the process00:03
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ds3in the 1 month of usage, it has eatten at least 3 messages00:04
derfds3: That's one of the reasons I don't use POP.00:04
ds3and fails to sound a tone or flash the blue LED 80% of the time00:04
ds3derf: I have no problems elsewhere with POP00:05
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derfI also collect mail from many places... so always wound up with "Leave mail on server" checked on whatever client I was using.00:05
ds3same here00:06
ds3that's how I found out I was loosing mail00:06
derfAnd, of course, lots of clients would occasionally get confused and insist on re-downloading 20,000 messages.00:06
ds3heh... that's what the Treo mail client did00:06
derfAt which point I figured I might as well just be using IMAP.00:06
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RST38hthis brings me to a question00:20
RST38hIs ANYONE at all using Modest regularly?00:20
timelessdoes it do something?00:21
GAN800I do when I'm mobile00:21
ds3I was til I got fed up with it00:21
RST38hGAN: Is it actually losing messages as ds3 says?00:21
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* RST38h can't say, with Modest mail check hanging hard several times a day00:23
ds3oh yeah,that's another problem ;)00:23
GAN800I haven't lost any that I've noticed.00:24
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RST38hthe hangups should get fixes with the next ssu, or so nokia people say00:25
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GAN800We're due00:29
GAN800When was the last one? Week 4000:29
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RST38hthis one will be the last00:31
GAN800How do you know?00:31
GAN800Magic crystal ball?00:32
RST38hNo magic this time00:32
RST38hSomeone from Nokia said that00:32
RST38hOne more Diablo SSU and then it is Fremntle00:32
GAN800Who and where?00:33
RST38hThis I do not remember but will try looking up00:33
* RST38h 's long term memory has got fully replaced with Google00:33
GAN800I still need to find out who the hell is. . . .00:33
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ds3is Fremntle going to support the 800?00:35
Stskeepswe dunno00:35
lcukGAN800, if its like the rest of X-Fade will rolleyes at you :D00:35
soapit has been days since I signed up @ garage, and my username / password still don't work on the rest of the site.00:36
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GAN800ds3, uknown, but a community backport will be much easier this time around.00:37
lardmanlcuk: ah, no-fair!00:37
lcukwhens the n910 comin out anyway00:37
lardmanweek on thursday00:37
* Stskeeps looks forward to rx-5100:37
lardmanStskeeps: is that the code name?00:38
Stskeepsyeah, it's in various linux-omap patches and source on stage.*00:38
lardmancool, anything interesting from the patches, etc.?00:38
Stskeepsso i'm quite assuming so00:38
Stskeepsnot really00:38
lardmanlikewise any curious browser idents been seen yet...? :)00:39
ssvblardman: you might want to check this link - (16 bit multiplies should be much faster on C55x DSP)00:39
lardmanssvb: looking now00:40
derfsoap: I had to wait, months, I think. You might want to try being less patient.00:41
lcukssvb, \o00:41
soapjust can't file official bug reproduction recipes w/o one  :(00:41
ssvblcuk: hi00:41
* lcuk broked liqbase00:41
lardmanssvb: why should that be quicker? fixed point mac?00:41
* lardman can't remember what variable size the guts were using00:42
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ssvblardman: C55x DSP has only 16-bit multiplier, 32-bit multiplies are emulated using several 16-bit multiplies and additions unless I'm mistaken00:43
lardmanssvb: ah ok, I can't remember tbh00:43
lardmanbut iirc some of the guts were certainly longs if not long longs00:44
ssvblardman: but that patch is probably not the final one, it's better to keep an eye on this thread00:44
lardmanssvb: I will do, thanks for the pointer :)00:44
lardmanssvb: what are you doing, free-time-wise these days?00:44
lcukthe loopunrolling will have had a large effect as well00:44
lardmanssvb: still thinking of freeing the 770?00:45
ssvblardman: IIRC, it can do 16x16 multiplies, accumulating result in 40-bit accumulator00:45
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lardmanlcuk: yeah, I think the C55 compiler does that pretty well anyway00:45
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lcukheh, i prefer to give hints anyway00:45
* lcuk hits stupid pooter00:46
lardmanwell improvements to sbc are always a good thing anyway :)00:46
lardmanhmm, /me can't access webmail...00:46
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ssvblardman: I'm doing different stuff, still can't get into the right mood and finally implement support for setting arbitrary resolutions for SDL :)00:49
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ssvblardman: have been moving to another apartment during the last weeks, but finally it's over00:56
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lcukssvb, sounds interesting00:59
lcuki mean the sdl thing..00:59
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lcukbut i have to vanish01:00
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lardmanssvb: yeah I've been busy recently, missing coding01:02
lardmanssvb: baddu's opengl-on-dsp looks interesting though, so I think I'll spend some time hacking on that01:02
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* lardman wants some new hardware to get excited about01:03
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johnx~lart hildon-desktop for failing to be a shared object when I tell it to06:24
* infobot frags hildon-desktop with his BFG9000 for failing to be a shared object when I tell it to06:24
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johnxwell building with maemo-launcher support doesn't work for *anyone's* package in my build env :/06:30
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szczym_helo all das any one know how to install tomboy on n810 ?06:59
szczym_here is the port
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johnxthat page doesn't look very up to date07:14
johnxhave you tried the info on the page linked?
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user_whats new07:22
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RST38hmoo johnx07:56
* johnx sighs and scowls at hildon-desktop07:57
johnxbut, how goes it with you?07:59
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qwerty12 heh09:27
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t_s_oi got mixed feelings here...09:36
qwerty12Only thing I see wrong is that sounds odder than internettablettalk :P09:37
t_s_oi wonder about those added moderators...09:38
t_s_olast thing we needs is something like the apple forum, where whole threads are wiped because they talk negatively against the product or company...09:39
t_s_oyes, i know is not, but i still cant help it...09:40
qwerty12t_s_o, I haven't seen that on the mailing lists.09:41
t_s_oyour probably right, im just being paranoid...09:41
t_s_oit becomes a sad habit at some point...09:41
t_s_oi guess it comes from having one to many chats with right-wing americans...09:42
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Andy80hi all10:10
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`Maceanybody here get android going on an n8xx?10:19
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ptmanI read the blogpost about a nokia announcement, but the time has already passed, does anyone have a link?10:20
`Maceim looking at a site now10:20
`Macewish i could put it on my n9510:21
`Macei dont like symbian that much10:21
`Maceits ok but im sure i could get better apps for android10:22
`Macewouldnt mind trying10:23
Andy80it looks like we have a new device:
`Macethought the n96 was a step backwards10:27
Meiz_n810Looks good....but10:27
`Macesymbian is lacking10:27
`Macethey need to ditch it10:28
`Macesymbian is good for 8yr old motorolas10:28
`Macenot an n9510:29
`Macei want to find a new os for it if i can10:29
`Macewhich is why i am looking now10:29
Meiz_n810there is video about running the android m3 on it10:31
`Macemost people think its fake10:32
`Macei do too10:32
`Maceah well. ill see about getting it going later10:33
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aquatix <- more info on the N97 for whoever is interested10:59
bergieshame it isn't maemo11:00
aquatixotoh, the resolution might be a tad low for maemo11:01
aquatixand there needs to be some gsm-related maemo apps then11:01
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bergietelepathy backends for calling and SMS would be nice :-)11:01
aquatixheh, indeed :)11:02
bergiethen you could use the existing IM app11:02
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t_s_o <- presentation video11:07
Stskeepscould be interesting if you could switch between symbian and maemo on it..11:09
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t_s_onow thats interesting, when playing around with the nokia product selector, checking "web browser with html" the N810 is hidden, but the N810w remains...11:15
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JaffaMorning, all11:19
t_s_oi wonder what pockets some people aim for. skintight jeans?11:24
RST38hWill probably sell for $1000+ but what the hell11:26
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t_s_ohmm, whats this rumour going around about a nokia 10" computer?11:27
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RST38ht_s_o: Easily solved11:39
RST38ht_s_o: Look at the leaked list of available development samples. If it is there, the rumor has grounds. Otherwise, it is bullshit.11:40
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mavhcthat's the reason I bought an n810, half the price of a similar smartphone11:44
johnxbe interesting to see if that remains true when they pack an HSPA modem into it11:45
t_s_oRST38h: thing is, that list may well only be leaked from the phone department. iirc, it didnt list a N900 or equivalent, only symbian running devices11:45
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* lcuk shivers11:51
t_s_oturn up your heater then...11:51
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RST38ht_s_o: I would bet 8:2 that they have got a common HW list11:52
RST38habsolutely no reason to have two absolutely independent HW teams with their own lists11:52
t_s_oin others words, no now maemo device in the future either?11:53
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t_s_oiirc, the list didnt show any maemo device11:54
* RST38h quietly salivates over N97 meanwhile11:54
RST38ht_s_o: They might not have the sample at the time the list was leaked11:54
t_s_oand the 10" computer could be a recent development...11:55
t_s_obasically, the relevancy of the leaked document is dropping rapidly...11:55
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RST38h    * The Nokia N97 is expected to ship in the first half of 2009 (presumably in June) with an estimated price of 550 Euro before taxes and subsidies.11:57
johnxwell they sure seem to have prototypes in hand a long ways before release11:58
RST38hThe release date coincides with suspected N900 release date11:58
t_s_ohmm, dug up the list (kinda bothersome as engadget had tossed it thanks to some lawyers) and it ends around week 17 2009. thats about april. so plenty of time for new stuff to be added...11:58
RST38hN97 screen size is just 640x360. Is it less than 5800?11:59
Dasajevthe same12:01
t_s_osame stuff...12:01
t_s_olooking at a side by side comparison, the N97 is a 5800 with keyboard ;)12:02
johnxThey're the same OS, right?12:02
johnxor the same version of S60 I mean12:02
t_s_ook, biggest diff, camera and internal storage. the N97 has 32GB!12:03
lardmando we have the spec of the n97 anywhere?12:04
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lardmant_s_o: thanks12:05
t_s_ono clue12:07
RST38hwill be funny if not12:07
t_s_ohmm, seems the screen tilt is not optional, like it is on the htc tytn2...12:07
RST38hnotice - still no digit buttons and that uncomfortable d-pad12:10
*** hannesw has joined #maemo12:10 have to buy a gaming system these days to get a decent d-pad :)12:10
t_s_oim not sure even those have one, most seem to focus on analog sticks these days...12:11
lardmanX-Fade: it has a compass12:11
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lardmanX-Fade: which is what I thought12:11
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johnxt_s_o, well, I'm thinking of one in particular...12:12
t_s_onow what could that be?12:12
johnx:P hint: runs linux, has omap312:12
t_s_onow to get hold of one...12:13
lardmanjohnx: hmm, I wonder when the hardware issues will be ironed out though....12:13
* johnx shrugs12:13
johnxI'm happy enough for now just poking at stuff in Mer12:14
lardmanyeah, just that I don't want to waste money on it if the Nokia device is out soon12:15
johnxfair enough.12:15
johnxI'll be passing on at least the next round of tablets though12:15
LiraNuna_anyone with the N810 WiMax here?12:17
Meiz_n810WiMax is a lot better than wlan.. i would like to see it getting some space from wlan...12:19
lardmanI don't think we have wimax over here12:19
Meiz_n810where do you live?12:20
Meiz_n810i am in finland12:20
lardmancertainly no hype about it here anyway12:20
Meiz_n810there is like one wimax spot in the country...12:20
MyrttiMeiz_n810: Ruoholahti ;-)12:21
lardmangot to start somewhere hey?12:21
MyrttiMeiz_n810: perhaps Hervanta12:21
Meiz_n810Myrtti: k12:21
Myrttino, I don't know in reality12:21
Myrttijust guessing12:21
towoI regret having the same telephone number as my windows colleague.12:22
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aquatixtowo: :(12:23
lardmanjohnx: though reading the fora that latest update is more optimistic12:23
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LiraNuna_I want to know what will work (or not) with deblet on N810 WiMAX12:24
LiraNuna_I foresee WiMAX not working, and that's fine12:24
johnxlardman, meh. it will be released at some point before the rx-51/n900 and I'm thinking that the rx-51 will be at least a $100 premium for an HSPA modem and camera I have no intention of using12:26
RST38hIf N900 is going to replace N810, it will have to be about the same in price12:27
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johnxRST38h, don't be so sure. They're apparently going to call it a different name and slapping a wimax modem in the old n810 sure put a premium on that12:28
Meiz_n810Comparing pandora and rx-51... rx-51 probably has bigger screen resolution...12:29
johnxI'll bet dollars to donuts it's 800x48012:30
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Meiz_n810i bet rx-51 screen will be 1024x60012:31
johnxwell, the fremantle themes will certainly give us a clue12:32
ShadowJKMeiz_n810, there are several wimax operators in the country...12:32
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ShadowJKbut I don't think any of them use the same frequency as N810W :)12:40
t_s_ook, im seriosly in love with dbus-switchboard now that it has a gui :D12:49
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johnxa GUI? I really have to look at that12:52
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t_s_othat and gpe file manager have allowed me to work around the issue of the maemo file manager and open file dialogs sometimes not showing enough of the file names...12:57
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Stskeeps'lo johnx13:01
johnxhey Stskeeps13:02
Stskeepshow goes the h-d?13:02
johnxbuilding things with maemo-launcher support in jaunty is just not working it seems13:02
Stskeepscurious .. gcc3 vs gcc4 difference maybe?13:02
johnxpossibly libtool?13:02
Stskeepsthat's a possibility too13:03
johnxI can lead you up to where I got, but I think I'm getting out of my depth :/13:03
Stskeepsi'll look into it i guess13:04
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johnxthis seems to be the part of the Makefile meant to do the magic:
Stskeepsdoes it run in rules?13:10
Stskeepsi'll take a look when i'm home i guess13:11
johnxah, that's the other thing: I can't get anyone's hildon-desktop package to do the maemo-launcher magic in jaunty13:11
johnxah, sure. no rush13:11
Stskeepsgoing to make a image builder for an atom board for mer :P13:11
Stskeepsif you are in need of something less frustrating, we need to package tslib and omapfb again13:12
Stskeepsand possibly linking it with the upstream omapfb driver (sits on git)13:12
johnxyeah, that sounds comparatively pleasant  :)13:12
johnxI'll take a look13:13
Stskeepswhere's your h-d branch at?13:13
johnxI've been working with the vanilla one to minimize guesswork at what might be making it fail13:14
johnxexact same symptoms in all of them13:14
johnxalso, Makefile reference and how it's expanded:
johnxI mean, it *looks* right >_<13:14
Stskeepsand i guess we test on i386?13:15
Stskeepsmakes it easier to debug .:P13:15
johnxyeah, would have gone crazy doing arm builds13:16
johnxqwerty12 tested for me inside scratchbox both ARM and x86 with the tags 2.0.19-1 version13:16
johnxboth build as shared objects13:16
Stskeepsi'm also slowly moving repo and all mer-related things to a chroot13:17
Stskeeps.. it'll be sitting in my basement13:18
johnxplanning on hosting the repo on your home internet connection?13:18
Stskeepswell, the master one and then mirroring it out13:19
Stskeepstrac was already on my home conn so13:19
Stskeepsbut it's been hit by some odd bandwidth management where it's sitting atm so13:19
johnxah, ick13:20
Stskeepsalso i have a server with raid that's doing absolutely nothing, so :p13:22
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Stskeepsyou know of any good platforms that does bzr hosting?13:31
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Stskeepsi start to dislike lp more and more13:31
johnxI really don't13:32
Stskeepsbut that might just be me..13:32
Stskeepswell more as in products13:32
suihkulokkiStskeeps: you want alioth pkg-maemo access? :P13:32
johnx"pkg-config --libs libosso" returns "-L//lib -losso -ldbus-glib-1 -ldbus-1 -lgobject-2.0 -lglib-2.0"13:33
johnxthat looks odd to me ...13:33
Stskeepssuihkulokki: what software does alioth run?13:33
suihkulokkiStskeeps: gforge13:33
Stskeepsgforce supports bzr?13:33
suihkulokki(forked, as usual)13:33
suihkulokkinot real bzr support, put it provides authentication to bzr.debian.org13:34 was a gforge too wasn't it?13:34
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* Stskeeps sees if there's anything new on the stage today13:46
bergieStskeeps: is gforge, is Midgard13:46
Stskeepsbergie: thanks13:47
bergieand garage will probably start doing git in near future13:47
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Stskeepsseems like it has a git plugin too13:48
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Stskeepsany idea if svn switch to git too or?13:53
bergieno idea except what it says in that wiki page13:53
Stskeepssounds like a good plan though :) may encourage contribution13:53
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* Stskeeps ponders trac or just continuing with launchpad14:04
bergieTrac is quite sweet14:05
Stskeepsyeah, but the question is always if it is collaborative enough14:06
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RST38hNot excited by N97? =)15:02
Stskeepsi wouldn't mind it as a tablet.15:02
Stskeepsbut symbian makes me cringe.15:02
RST38hAh come on, it does the job15:03
Stskeepsand price level is quite high15:03
johnxif I was gonna go closed source, full featured smart-phone I would probably just get an iphone and be done with it15:03
RST38hjohnx: iPhone is a fashion item, N97 is a tool15:03
RST38h(even although Nokia is screaming that it is a fashion item :))15:03
StskeepsRST38h: i wouldn't mind a tablet "kit", - like, insertable touch screen, etc15:03
`Macewtf do you need for nero recode to work with 5.1?15:04
Stskeepsso you can build your own sizes15:04
RST38hSts: Why not Beagle then?15:04
johnxRST38h, you drank the anti-koolaid, or the Nokia-brand koolaid or something...15:04
StskeepsRST38h: .. got one15:04
RST38hjohnx: I drunk koolaid (real one) exactly one time in my life15:04
StskeepsRST38h: actually, got two15:04
RST38hjohnx: I remember it from having to wash the floor with heavy detergent to get rid of the colored spots15:05
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RST38hSts: Ah, then just stick them together for a bigger screen!15:05
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johnxI grew up on the stuff so I'm mostly immune to the weaponized marketing version15:05
RST38hjohnx: having said that, no memory cards, no BT, and no programmability make iPhone useless for me15:06
StskeepsRST38h: well when i speak of kit.. stylish casings, integrated battery, board, ability to replace casing with a bigger one and insert bigger touch screen..15:06
RST38hOverpriced toy with strings, sorry15:06
Stskeepsso if i wanted a 14" tablet, i could make it15:06
Stskeepslike desktop pcs15:07
RST38hSts: Yes but how do you get BOTH ability to modify and the stylish factor in the same package?15:07
StskeepsRST38h: well, different casings, possibly15:07
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`Macei wonder if the android install on the n95 is for real15:07
`Macei would love to get rid of symbian15:07
Stskeeps`Mace: the verdict is still out on that one15:07
Stskeeps`Mace: i wouldn't mind trying out debian on a n95.. :P15:07
johnxRST38h, exactly. spending a lot of money on a phone I can't hack doesn't seem all that worthwhile to me. my next phone will probably be just a phone, likely with bt and 3g this time15:08
`Maceyeah... you would figure there would be more information about it15:08
RST38hSts: Wouldn't you want to upgrade the hw too, as faster CPUs become available?15:08
`Maceespecially since the video is a couple months old15:08
StskeepsRST38h: replacing the soc is fine for me15:08
RST38hjohnx: Actually, N97 would probably do it for me as a replacement for E7015:08
RST38hSts; Then why not replace the whole thing at once - display, SoC, casing? ;)15:08
RST38hjohnx: the keyboard is definitely worse than E70's but you can't have it all15:09
StskeepsRST38h: cos that requires a company to model those then15:09
`Macei'm so sick of symbian on my n9515:09
RST38hSts: Nokia or HTC15:09
RST38hChoose one15:09
Stskeepsand i want to customize the tablets to my house/needs15:09
`Macewonder if there is something else i can put on it15:09
Stskeepsand not based on marketing15:09
RST38hMace: Should have known better than buying an overpriced brickphone15:09
`Macei love my n95.. just don't like symbian that much15:09
Stskeeps`Mace: look into if anyone managed to flash anything on top of a n95 :P15:10
johnxfinally got a noopt build of gtk for ARM done and it's broken >_<15:10
glass_Stskeeps: afaik no15:10
`Macei mean it's not BAD.. i just want a little more off it ;)15:10
RST38hWhat exactly is a problem with Symbian? It makes things tick15:10
RST38hWhat "more" do you want?15:10
glass_RST38h: it's that people think they'd get more if it run qtopia phone ed or something15:10
`Macei don't know if i can give a good reference15:10
glass_having never tried them15:10
RST38hglass: Poor guys, tempted by ephemeral penguin15:10
`Macewell.. symbian is a little more difficult to tweak15:10
RST38hMace: No, what exactly do you want from your N95?15:11
glass_`Mace: would a closede linux be better? try some motorolas15:11
glass_and well if you're the hackety type you can do quite a bit with symbian15:11
glass_programming phonefeaturewise etc15:11
RST38hSymbian is pretty much hackable, as long as you are prepared to search and read documentation15:12
RST38hBut before you do that, you should know exactly just WHAT you want to do15:12
glass_and tear your hair15:12
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johnxyeah, I've kind of accepted that right now there's nothing that's "hackable linux" and "usable as a phone"15:13
Stskeepsyeah, openmoko doesn't qualify for the last :P15:14
RST38h"What I found most impressive is that users simply looking for a no-nonsense, practical tool will find the N97 is worth a second look" (C)TheRegister15:14
RST38hReading my mind, ain't they?15:14
ShadowJKThe most sensible way to code apps for symbian is in python, which is saying something15:15
RST38hSts: Btw, wherever you say "openmoko" you should be able to say "pandora" in a half a year ;)15:15
johnxso I might as well buy a phone that's just a tool for making phone calls, a "phone appliance" if you will and continue carrying a separate "mobile computer"15:15
RST38hShadowJK: It is sayng that you have not taken time trying to learn how to do it in C or C++15:15
johnxRST38h, they're adding a phone to the pandora? :P15:15
ShadowJKRST38h, well I'd need to invest in a new computer and buy Windows first too15:16
RST38hjohnx: Ok, replace "phone" with ;gaming system" or whatever fits the description15:16
RST38hShadowJK: On other words, you have not tried15:16
suihkulokkireliability req's for a gaming device is quite different from a phone15:16
johnxRST38h, Actually, the emulators are shaping up nicely it appears, the battery life looks good15:16
RST38hShadowJK: Well, I had to install Ubuntu just to develop for Maemo too :)15:16
johnxRST38h, whether it's a usable PDA/mobile linux platform depends on how portable fremantle is I think :)15:17
ShadowJKRST38h, I went with python because it didn't require me to shell out more money15:17
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Stskeepshmm. can a x86 pc act as usb gadget?15:18
RST38hjohnx: heh :)15:18
RST38hShadowJK: [smiling sadistically] But you can run Windows inside a VMware appliance! B)15:18
aquatixok, anyone in Nokia here that can ship me that N97 Soon(tm)? :)15:18
johnxlike "Soon(tm)" in terms of geological time?15:19
ShadowJKRST38h, supposedly it even works in qemu, but I don't have any windows newer than win98, would that work? :-)15:19
RST38hShadowJK: Isn't this what Nokia guys tell to us, poor sods who are tied to Windows?15:19
RST38hShadowJK: My guess is that Win98 will do just fine with Symbian/S60 SDK15:19
johnxlinux live disks actually work though :P15:19
RST38hThe Symbian simulator prolly won't work but screw it anyway15:20
aquatixjohnx: in terms as `damn, that's a nice christmas present'15:21
GAN800t_s_o, what sort of mods do you think we're gonna dredge up? :/15:21
aquatixchristmas 2008 that is ;)15:21
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johnxaquatix, ah, you caught that before I finished typing15:21
RST38haquatix: you will probably have to start celebrating 4th of July15:21
aquatixjohnx: ;)15:21
RST38haquatix: 'cause that is when N97 is gonna arrive15:21
aquatixRST38h: no way going to do that ;)15:21
aquatixwell, i'll just celebrate aquatix.gadgets++ day then15:22
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* RST38h wonders what will happen when some time in December we find out that Fremantle SDK uses 640x360 screen size15:35
RST38hAnd somewhere before the next summer it becomes clear that "N900" is just an N97 with an alternative OS15:36
Stskeepsi'm not entirely sure i would mind15:36
GAN800That's not gonna happen15:36
RST38hGAN: Sure?15:36
RST38hSpecs seem to match what we know of N90015:37
johnxRST38h, zaurus users will rejoice :)15:37
ShadowJKI wouldn't mind N97 with alternative OS15:37
RST38hjohnx: All 5 of them? =)15:37
ShadowJKor N95 with alternative OS15:37
ShadowJKor E71, etc :P15:37
RST38hBut it is a smaller screen, mind you15:38
johnxRST38h, there are plenty but they're quiet for the most part since it seems like their devices actually do most of what they care about15:38
RST38hI wonder if there are any Zoomer users left...15:39
johnxI have no idea what that is...15:40
* GAN800 is surprised the announcement didn't generate more noise.15:40
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johnxwait, found it15:40
RST38hGAN: Just saw it. Cool15:41
GAN800RST38h, the entire reason the tablets are useful devices is the resolution.15:41
RST38hGAN: Exactly15:41
StskeepsGAN800: sounds cooler than, and worries of censorship, but that's about it..15:42
Stskeepsseems like nokia behaves on their own forums though15:42
RST38hAnd 640x360 makes them useless for full-page PDF viewing15:42
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johnxPDFs make themselves useful for rendering on anything but the creator's monitor...15:42
GAN800Stskeeps, is a community address. . . .15:42
StskeepsGAN800: and this just makes community larger15:42
infobotjohnx meant: PDFs make themselves useless for rendering on anything but the creator's monitor...15:42
RST38hSts: You can have aliases, no problem there. As to censorship, I doubt you will see it in this particular case15:42
Stskeepsyeah, and i doubt it too15:42
RST38hjohnx: Ah, they are ok, especially without alternatives15:43
GAN800there wont be censorship15:43
GAN800I'll personally assure that. :)15:43
johnxRST38h, yeah, once you convert them to html and reflow them...15:43
RST38hYahooooooo! XP booted!15:43
Stskeeps.. on your N95? :>15:44
RST38hjohnx: I have got quite a few converted from old paper documentation scans. Can't do much about them =(15:44
GAN800The servers aren't being changed and 'new admins' basically means 'X-Fade'15:44
johnxocr -> pdftohtml -> enjoy15:44
RST38hSts: this part is classified.15:44
RST38hjohnx: No longer have original docs15:44
johnxMay I suggest fbreader for long html files15:44
GAN800You've all seen what a heavy hand he has on the lists :roll:15:44
StskeepsGAN800: does this mean council members have control over iTT? :>15:45
GAN800Stskeeps, I'm not interested in that myself.15:45
* RST38h will be delighted to run around the forums screaming "THE HAVE KILLED KAREL!"15:45
GAN800But their position kinda == root@maemo.org15:45
johnxRST38h, what will kill him is maemo on pandora :)15:46
GAN800Reggie's still at the wheel.15:46 is just is just ridding shotgun now. :)15:46
JaffaAlso, "tablet" talk won't be so appropriate when they drop the "Internet Tablet" moniiker15:47
RST38hjohnx: There is still chance he will suicide when Pandora does not arrive in June15:47
GAN800It was funny to see Peter talk about Maemo on N95s.15:48
RST38hJaffa: I see no problem in having a DNS alias15:48
StskeepsGAN800: @Marketing?15:48
GAN800Stskeeps, yeah15:48
RST38hJaffa: If there are people who like and it does not cost anything, why not give them an alias?15:49
StskeepsGAN800: nokia should really do an attempt in taking an older model, give community specs to get things booting..15:49
Stskeepsand see what comes out of it15:49
Stskeeps(based on maemo, of course)15:49
RST38hGAN: Is he a real thing or a busybody not related to Nokia?15:49
GAN800Stskeeps, Nokia has never been much for community support. :p15:49
StskeepsGAN800: sadly :P15:49
GAN800RST38h, Quim's boss.15:49
RST38hGAN: Ah, cool!15:50
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StskeepsGAN800: still good publicity :P15:50
RST38hSo, there is a guy between Quim and Ari?15:50
GAN800I bet 3rd party vendors like imagination tech are an issue thougj15:50
GAN800RST38h, yes.15:51
Stskeeps"organisational chart of and maemo sw"15:51
Stskeepsso needed15:51
GAN800RST38h, that was my first reaction, to.15:51
infobotGAN800 meant: RST38h, that was my first reaction, too.15:51
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GAN800Stskeeps, seriously.15:51
GAN800They are a publicly traded company.15:51
GAN800That should entitle us to SOMETHING. :P15:52
abinaderoops! :P15:52
GAN800Though it'd be hilarious to put together a chart based on what we know.15:52
GAN800'OK, there's Ari up at the top, the over in marketing we have Peter telling Quim what to do, then ragnar's got the UI stuff . . .'15:53
infobotGAN800 meant: 'OK, thenre's Ari up at the top, the over in marketing we have Peter telling Quim what to do, then ragnar's got the UI stuff . . .'15:53
RST38hOut of all tholse, you only want the people who make technical decisions15:54
GAN800The product managers we NEVER see15:54
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GAN800Even though some, like Rodrigo (desktop), are on Freenode. . . .15:55
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RST38hFinding common language with the marketing is going to be complicated by definition15:55
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aquatixbrrr... marketing15:55
johnxwell at least "What the hell is Maemo?!" is finally explained...15:55
GAN800Well, so far, we've got Peter and Quim and they aint too bad. ;)15:56
GAN800johnx, it's a development platform, didn't you hear? :p15:56
johnxI mean Maemo 5 not being OS200915:56
GAN800I'm kidding. ;)15:57
johnxah, wasn't sure :P15:57
GAN800That's what it USED to ne15:58
infobotGAN800 meant: That's what it USED to be15:58
johnxwell, according to some people15:58
GAN800Before Nokia decided they wanted to use the trademark for themselves.15:58
GAN800No, seriously, maemo was the development platform15:59
GAN800Many people may have used it to describe other things, but it really was just the DP.15:59
johnxwell, yeah, but then there was hosting software, packages called maemo-desktop and the OS the tablets run being called "Maemo Linux"16:00
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GAN800it was never called that16:00
GAN800Not by Nokia, anyway16:00
johnxgranted, Nokia didn't coin that last one16:00
johnxbut they didn't offer anything besides OS200x16:00
JaffaDo we know the screen res of an N97 yet? The d-pad on looks awfully familiar16:00
johnx640x360 ?16:01
GAN800Nokia was always consistent in their usage, even if the community was not.16:01
RST38hJaffa: The whole thing is familiar - just look at the virtual keyboard screen in S60e516:01
johnxmaemo-desktop? that's what now? the desktop of my development environment?16:01
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RST38hhildon-desktop maybe?16:01
johnxwell it is now :)16:01
JaffaAh, 640x360 for N97 apparently16:02
johnxanyways, things are clear now, I'm happy, case closed, returns to hacking16:02
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GAN800lol, 'buying a community'16:03
johnxit has a certain truth to it16:05
johnxbut it's more like a rent-to-own program16:05
johnxleasing a community?16:05
GAN800RX-51 has got to have at least 32GB onboard16:05
* timeless looks up16:05
johnxGAN800, nah, tablets must be made out of Nokia spare parts. That's the rule. :)16:06
timelessit's true!16:06
* Stskeeps wonders where the big touch screens came from then16:06
johnxwhat was the screen size on the older touchscreen Nokia phones?16:07
johnxah, 4 inches and 4.5 inches? maybe the next one was going to be 4.3"? :)16:10
johnxwhat's the trick for having dch append mer instead of ubuntu while packaging?16:11
Stskeepsi'm not sure, i do it manually16:11
Stskeepsif you find out, please do say16:11
GAN800I've found I just don't care about phones anymore16:11
Stskeepsheh, i usually use my tablet16:11
Stskeepsusing skype on it to talk to my gf while she's in berlin16:12
Stskeepstablet in pocket, headset plugged into tablet16:12
GAN800They're all totally crippled by software.16:12
johnxGAN800, exactly! that's what I was getting at earlier. and if that's the case, they might as well be an appliance and do as little as possible16:13
GAN800Which is where I'm at with my current Samsung16:13
* timeless frowns16:13
timelessthey really have auto rotation working?16:13
GAN800Small, 3g, makes ans receives phonecalls.16:14
GAN800Sounds like it.16:14
johnxpreferably with lots of battery life and bt16:14
Stskeepsi wouldn't mind my cellphone simply functioning as a device that provides voice-over-whatever streams and connectivity.16:14
Stskeepsthat wires into my tablet16:15
GAN800Battery life is starting to wane16:15
GAN800I'm due for a contract renewal soon16:15
GAN800Not sure if I want a new phone or just get a new battery16:15
* timeless sighs16:15
timelessnokia and user interfaces...16:15
Stskeepsi'm pondering to see if my usb cable for my s-e phone (which supports ACM/ethernet emulation) pulls any power from my tablet at all16:15
GAN800As there's nothing out there that looks remotely interesting.16:15
* timeless wonders what the three empty buttons on the application screen do16:16
timeless'crash'? :)16:16
Stskeepshm, what's iphone battery life like anyway?16:18
GAN800Somebody slap thoughtfix with some capital M's . . .
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Stskeepsvideo on here, does remind me of something clutter would be used for16:22
johnxthat would be a very sensible use IMHO16:24
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Stskeepsi'd actually consider that one, but i think i'm waiting for rx-5116:24
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RST38hGAN: Thoughtfix is essentially correct16:25
timelesswhat did thoughtfix say?16:25
Stskeepsjohnx: are there any .jp like tablets though? alike NITs16:27
johnxthere is an absolute proliferation of multimedia dictionaries, think zaurus formfactor, proprietary OS, built in TV tuner, video player16:28
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johnxin fact the linux-based zaurus was just a dead-end road for sharp in that regard16:29
johnxeveryone just uses a phone16:29
Stskeepsthey're more like mini computers i guess?16:29
johnx3G is everywhere, websites are actually formatted for phones, and people have lots of time to use them one handed on the train16:30
johnxnah, mostly blocky clamshells with crappy proprietary OSes, but lots and lots of features16:30
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johnxevery basic phone has 3G, AGPS, but most just have a mobile web browser, not even opera mini16:31
RST38hmobile web browser == WAP?16:33
johnxor something like it I guess16:33
johnxmy phone has opera. totally lucked out in that regard16:34
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RST38hjohnx: Why not buy a European phone and use TMobile or whatever GSM provider has invaded .jp by now?16:34
johnxthere's no GSM network16:35
johnxlet that sink in for a while16:35
Stskeepsif there was pervasive 3g/4g, i wouldn't care :P16:35
RST38hjohnx: I think there is some16:35
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RST38hNTT and Softbank seem to be using 3G 210016:36
RST38hThat it standard enough16:36
johnxright, but not GSM/GPRS16:36
RST38hWhy not use a 3G Nokia phone then?16:36
johnxonly some providers are actually friendly to signing foreigners up on contracts16:37
johnxand pre-paid is a terrible scam here16:37
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* RST38h asks the Tentacled One to summarily teach those network operators a lesson16:39
johnxRST38h, hmm, might have jumped the gun on which networks support GSM. pretty sure docomo doesn't though16:39
RST38hjohnx: TMobile had .jp operations afaik16:39
johnxnews to me16:39
johnxnever saw them represented in brick and mortar stores16:39
johnxlike I said though. I don't care much since I want my phone to be an appliance16:40
johnxonly thing it's missing is bluetooth16:40
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ShadowJKiirc japan avoided WAP like the plague. How sensible of them :)16:44
GAN800Does anybody find the 'gender neutral' use of 'she' baffling?16:45
RST38hShadowJK: Still, I remember NTT talking head saying that they are integrating Java in their phones "because it is the only way to send and receive pictures"16:45
RST38hGAN: I use "he".16:45
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ShadowJKGAN800, I've seen people use "hir" :-)16:45
RST38hExcept when talking about a computer user16:45
GAN800'they' works16:46
RST38h'they' will sound creepy16:46
GAN800and it's in common enough usage these days.16:46
derf"She" is not gender neutral.16:46
RST38hUse 'it'.16:47
* Stskeeps glances at the picopsu on his table16:48
RST38hOr 'he/she'. Or '(s)he'16:48
Stskeepsit's absurd how small this thing is16:48
GAN800derf, clearly, but a lot of people use it like it is.16:48
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Stskeeps( )16:48
RST38hSts: The important thing is how bad it blows up16:48
derfGAN800: Those people are dumb, or have a giant chip on their shoulder, or both.16:48
RST38hOh yeeees16:49
RST38hAt least Russian grammar is free from this dilemma16:50
GAN800Stskeeps, small things terrify me.16:51
johnxStskeeps, the executive summary is: for not very good reasons it's kind of a pain to make dch automatically append mer$n without modifying it or changing our lsb_release away from Ubuntu :| (AFAICT)16:51
johnxRST38h, and full of other dilemmas?16:52
RST38hjohnx: not of this kind :)16:52
johnxevery language has its own new and special weirdness16:53
Stskeepsjohnx: neato16:53
johnxchanging dch and using a local version seems reasonable since it's just for convenience16:53
RST38hjohnx: The he/she one is more of political origin. Proper English requires you to use "he"16:54
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johnxno one speaks proper english :P16:54
johnxit's a mythical beast, like unicorns and honest politicians16:54
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johnxhow about "the individual"16:56
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RST38hUse "the long pig"16:56
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Stskeepslet's use the character ~ for he/she16:57
RST38hStskeeps: or "user"16:57
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* Stskeeps heads off to the bus16:58
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johnxthe N97 UI looks a lot less slick on a real phone:
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RST38hIt doesn't look very slick on the Pr images as well17:18
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RST38hDon't think anybody expects it to look iphone-slick though...17:19
ShadowJKneeds more smudgemagnet paint17:20
johnxwell there was the PR video which had the applets rotating while the phone switched from portrait -> landscape17:20
johnxwhich seems kind of misleading17:20
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RST38hand this also occurs in this video17:20
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RST38hand it does happen very fast17:20
ShadowJKIt can take several seconds on my E7017:20
ShadowJK(switching between portrai and landscape)17:21
RST38hother transitions are less fluid though17:21
RST38hShadowJK: Hey, my E70 takes 40 seconds just to show contents of a folder in the app menu17:21
summatusmentisis the N97 the big Nokia announcement?17:21
ShadowJKRST38h, I recommend running chkdsk/fsck on the memory card :)17:21
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Meiz_n810My 5500 is soo slow...17:22
ShadowJKwelcome to symbian!17:22
* ShadowJK runs17:22
aquatixjohnx: it misses transitions in that video17:22
aquatixstill looks quite ok to me17:22
RST38hShadowJK: You mean, Windows version of checkdisk?17:23
Jaffasummatusmentis: yeah17:23
aquatixjohnx: maybe the transitions wheren't enabled in that movie (stupid...) or wheren't done yet17:23
aquatixthere's a reason we have to wait another 6 months ;)17:23
ShadowJKRST38h, yeah it's better than the Linux fsck.msdos17:23
summatusmentiswhat's it running? Symbian?17:23
aquatixsummatusmentis: series 60 v517:24
RST38hShadowJK: Thanks, I will try17:24
ShadowJKRST38h, what I ended up doing was saving pictures/videos/audio and then formatting the card17:25
ShadowJKlost the Maps cache and programs I had installed to the card, but it was much faster afterwards17:25
ShadowJKI had been reading/writing to the card with a card reader connected to PC. Unfortunately it turned out that the reader didn't quite cope with >1G cards, and was silently corrupting the card...17:26
RST38hBut what happened after you installed those programs again?17:26
aquatixShadowJK: ah, that sounds nasty indeed17:26
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ShadowJKRST38h, I had one minute delays in opening the gallery and such, those went away even after programs had been reinstalled17:27
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lardmanany canola users here?17:46
johnx<- big canola user17:46
johnxalmost every day17:46
lardmanit doesn't seem to find my music, where should I search? Do they have a bugtracker?17:46
t_s_ocanola? *gag*17:46
lardmanit also takes a year to "update" from a single directory17:47
GAN800lardman, did you add your folders?17:47
lardmanupdate the music list that is17:47
lardmanGAN800: yeah, just the one17:47
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GAN800The bug tracker is Mr. Council-member-that-pays-attention. . . .17:48
lardmanhmm, apparently it didn't remember, no tick mark by it anymore17:48
GAN800Or just harass etrunko in #canola17:48
lardmanGAN800: there's a bug tracker?!17:48
lardmana maemo one?!17:48
Meiz_n810I installed latest canola from extras (not extras-devel) to a fresh flash and there is no video icon :(17:48
* GAN800 slaps lardman with a stack of current events.17:48
MoRpHeUzMeiz_n810: run "canola -vvv" and put the log here...17:49
* lardman ducks his head further into the sand17:49
Meiz_n810no problem anymore, i flashed and installed again17:49
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lardmanstill doesn't work!17:50
johnxnot detecting any of your music?17:51
johnxbut it is taking time after you hit refresh?17:51
lardmanwell I think the issue is more that it forgets where I've put it17:51
lardmanyeah, takes a couple of minutes after I select a directory17:51
lardmansaying "updating" or similar17:51
qwerty12lardman, I think your issue is that you deleted the lethal bizzle son17:52
lardmanqwerty12: lol17:52
lardmanqwerty12: how do you know I didn't hang on to it....? ;)17:52
qwerty12I just figure that the song is not to your taste ;P17:52
lardmanqwerty12: yeah, sounds worse since I fixed mono playback via a2dp ;)17:53
qwerty12lardman, lol17:53
lardmanhmm, "updating media library..." really takes a long time, I wonder what it's doing...17:53
aquatixlaughing at you17:53
lardmanaquatix: well I'm laughing back as I fire up "apt-get remove" ;)17:54
aquatixthat's the canola library?17:54
GAN800lardman, canola -vvv ? :P17:54
qwerty12lardman, don't forget the --purge!17:54
GAN800I'm assuming you're not using b10?17:54
t_s_olardman: could it be a slow SD card?17:54
GAN800Canola cleanup then reinstall may also be productive.17:55
aquatixcanola was quite slow here with indexing17:55
GAN800Tracker should help17:55
t_s_owho needs indexing anyways? just toss it all into a playlist and hit random ;)17:55
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lardmanlots of errors in the output, and yet it fails silently in the gui17:56
* qwerty12 worships mpd because it doesn't use the dsp :P17:56
* aquatix uses mpd on his laptop17:57
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aquatixi didn't quite like it on my handheld17:57
lardmanhmm, some error about a table not existing17:58
aquatixlardman: hm17:58
aquatixmaybe purge the data files and let it recreate its db17:58
lardmanhow does one do that?17:58
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lardmancd / && rm -rf17:59
qwerty12Where's your *?!?18:00
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lardmanqwerty12: I wanted to avoid someone accidentally destroying their world18:00
aquatixoh noes18:01
aquatixi had mounted my nfs shares there too18:01
qwerty12cd C:\ , C: , rm -rf . Command not found18:01
aquatixand my backup hdd and ...18:01
aquatix*carrier lost*18:01
* qwerty12 has never figured out why windows's command prompt requires you to type <drive letter>: to go to the root of a new drive instead of being able to cd there18:02
RST38hbecause there are multiple root18:02
lardmanwell you can cd before you get there can't you18:02
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aquatixRST38h: well, something like "cd c:" should work imho18:02
RST38hand when you do cd X:\ this moves cwd for THAT drive to its root18:03
RST38haquatix: nope18:03
Meiz_n810Hastys universe packages.gz 3.2mb , Jauntys universe packages.gz 4.1mb...18:03
aquatixRST38h: read `imho'18:03
aquatixRST38h: it has cwd's for each drive?18:04
aquatixah yes18:04
aquatixstill weird syntax though18:04
* lardman installs Kagu instead and sees all the Map app .ogg files being parsed... :(18:05
RST38haquatix: i.e. the problem you are reporting is syntactically correct18:06
RST38hlardman: Maps uses .ogg? =)18:06
aquatixRST38h: yeah :)18:07
RST38hlardman: holy shit18:07
aquatixthankfully diablo has an `ignore the map oggs in media player'18:07
qwerty12yeah, if you use ogg-support, it installs a control panel applet that lets the built in media player ignore the map oggs18:07
lardman'and all other oggs too' ?18:07
lardmanah, ok18:07
aquatixlardman: no, only the map ones18:07
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aquatixah yes, that option was from ogg-support itself indeed18:08
* RST38h likes the "iignore all oggs option"18:08
qwerty12lardman, would defeat the purpose of ogg-support :P18:08
lardmanaquatix: default tablet state ;)18:08
lardmanqwerty12: I know18:08
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lardmanwhat is it with me and music apps18:09
qwerty12A dsp hacker can't get music apps to work for him. :P18:10
lardmankagu crashed with an error too, couldn't open ~/.kagu/album)cashe.tga18:10
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lardmanqwerty12: I need to resort to the command line, I just thought a nice fluffy player would be nice, but i was wrong!18:10
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qwerty12mplayer /music/directory/* -loop 9999999999999918:11
aquatixlardman: :)18:11
aquatixcat /dev/random > /dev/dsp18:11
aquatixwhite noise++18:11
qwerty12What /dev/dsp :P18:11
RST38hlardman: you are too smart and they feel it18:11
qwerty12on the tablets it's something like /dev/dsptask/pcm3 iirc18:12
Zakk_maemowhere are the menu .desktop kept?18:12
lardmanI think I'll give up and go back to using the built-in media player :(18:12
aquatixlardman: i did that too18:12
aquatixi even think it's quite ok18:12
aquatixwfm so to say :)18:12
lardmanaquatix: yeah, not very pretty though18:12
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aquatixlardman: well, i don't see it when it's playing ;)18:13
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aquatixgenerally located somewhere in my dashboard or in a pocket of my jacket18:13
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lardmanah, finally, music :)18:13
lardmanoh well, I'll just remember to not try to fool myself and use user-ready apps :)18:14
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* lardman apologises for ranting, it's been a long week18:16
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aquatixlardman: it's ok18:20
aquatixthat's where /ignore is for18:20
* aquatix runs18:20
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lardman:p :D18:20
* qwerty12 tries /ignore aquatix :P18:20
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qwerty12Seems to be working...18:21
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* aquatix pokes qwerty12 18:22
* qwerty12 looks to the side, sees noone there, continues on with his business18:23
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* lardman curses phase unwrapping18:28
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lardmancu later chaps18:35
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qwerty12bye lardman18:35
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Proteoushere's a tip, if you are going to set up svn on a windows box and are going to use ssh to connect/authenticate just use cygwin and save yourself hours of frustration19:22
inzProteous, s/ just use cygwin/, don't/19:23
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dougt_Proteous: why don't that work?19:23
olihey, how to I forward wlan0 to usb0 ? :)19:27
olii am connected to a wifi network and i want to route the traffic to my pc over Usb19:28
oli(using vnc isn't comfortable)19:28
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Stskeepsget bridge utils? :P19:30
johnxwell, you could setup a static route, a bridge or NAT19:31
johnxit all depends on the situation19:31
Stskeepsjohnx: looking into h-d now19:31
Stskeepsqwerty12: some of those transparency scrshots are mean cool19:31
johnxStskeeps, ah, thanks19:32
johnxabout to put up omapfb19:32
qwerty12Stskeeps, :). It's fun messing around :D19:32
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qwerty12Nice part is that I didn't have to recompile xserver-xomap because compositing is set by default if not disabled explicitly via configure. And guess what, nokia never specified to disable it.19:33
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disco_stuhey i need help, i moved to Diablo and now i cant remove stock games and so.. because dependencies, anyone with a  trick ?19:33
Stskeepsok, i might be an ass right now, but why don't people just call SetBackground on org.maemo.hildon.background_manager on dbus to make a wallpaper changer?19:34
ProteousI wants an n97 with maemo or android19:34
Proteousnokia can keep s6019:35
johnxStskeeps, that works?19:35
qwerty12Stskeeps, Does that work? I was running dbus-monitor and I never saw paths being passed...19:35
Stskeepsjohnx: it's in te .xml for the interface19:35
Stskeepsi'll see if it is actually implemented19:35
olijohnx: i've tried to use iptables (nat) but when i use the same rule when sharing net from pc to nokia - it doesn't work19:35
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Stskeepsjohnx: looks implemented to me19:37
johnxoli, it doesn't forward packets or the iptables command fails?19:37
* Stskeeps gets out tablet19:37
johnxwell, that's especially odd given that Nokia said it couldn't be done, IIRC19:38
Stskeepssince my pizza place has decided to first serve me in 1h30 m19:38
johnxsadness :/19:38
qwerty12hehe, dominoes here delivered one here in 30 mins the other day :P19:38
olijohnx: command fails, will paste result in a moment...19:38
Stskeepsqwerty12: i've had 20 min ones too19:39
qwerty12Stskeeps, does your pizza place do the thing that you get the pizza free if they are more than 30 mins late?19:39
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Stskeepsno sadly19:40
Stskeepsit's never really happened except once19:40
Stskeepswas a burger place instead and a huge order19:40
Stskeepsand far away19:41
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Stskeepsqwerty12: odd idea. can't dsp be used for composite?19:41
Stskeepsas far as i recall it's fairly easy stuff19:41
qwerty12Stskeeps, No idea, I don't know anything about the composition itself nor about the DSP.19:42
Stskeepsi had a tangent once with graphics systems .. :P19:42
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lardmanwhat are we compositing?19:43
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johnxlardman, pizza as far as I can tell19:44
qwerty12lardman, look at the last page here:
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olijohnx: iptables v1.3.6: can't initialize iptables table `nat': Table does not exist (do you need to insmod?)19:45
johnxwell, the answer is that you need to download some modules and then insmod them19:46
qwerty12afaik, there's the iptables more modules in extras[-devel]19:47
oliany links/details? I'm tablet newbie ;]19:47
infobotwell, extras is
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johnxthere's a start :)19:48
johnxand a general tip about searching for googling about the tablets: try including "maemo" in your search instead of a specific tablet19:49
oliwill read :)19:49
olibtw, why can't I have 2 ssh connections to nokia?19:50
johnxyou can19:50
lardmansorry, I had to composite my reading here and unpacking the shopping19:50
* qwerty12 has nautilus (via gnome-vfs) connected to an sftp session on the tablet & an ssh session in a terminal to the tablet at the same time19:51
lardmanI see19:51
Jaffaoli: you might have reach the max number of pttys19:51
olisorry, I can :)19:51
olibut why does connecting second session takes so loong ;p19:52
johnx<- empowering words, 50% off, today only19:52
johnxmaybe your router or maybe it's connected to the tablet going into wifi power saving mode19:52
olijohnx: Internet <aDSL> router <wifi> n800 <usb> PC ;)19:53
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johnxusb networking can be a little flakey it seems19:54
oliwhen I am not ssh-connected it connects immediately19:55
olianyway, this is not a point :)19:55
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z4chhare there grandcentral invites still?19:57
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Stskeepsqwerty12: k, isn't an api for that20:00
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qwerty12Stskeeps, to change background?20:00
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* lcuk throws a snowball @ qwerty20:02
qwerty12lcuk, hey, hey, you got snow up north?!20:03
lcukyeah, lots of it20:03
qwerty12aww :(20:03
* qwerty12 orders train tickets20:03
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qwerty12We do have lots of rain down here though :)20:03
* lardman would like some snow too!20:03
olijohnx: extras enabled20:03
lardmancold rain :(20:03
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* lardman likes having 3 monitors :)20:04
* Stskeeps misses having three monitors20:05
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* qwerty12 breaks into where lardman is and takes a monitor as a souvenir :)20:05
oli20"LCD, 15"CRT , 17" CRT? :D20:05
* Stskeeps had 3x17" crt20:05
lardman22", 20" and 19" all LCD20:05
Stskeepsthat was space well used.20:05
johnxCRTs are pain20:05
johnxwell, all the ones I owned20:05
lardmanyeah, I chopped a CRT for the 22" lcd to save some desk space20:06
* lardman wonders whether he could find wall brackets and go for a second tier.... :)20:06
derfGiant projectors, man. Fill the whole wall.20:07
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olii guess the iptables-ext can help me, am I right?20:08
lardmanlooks interesting, just need the desk to be a screen too :)20:10
lardmannot that I can see anything of the top of my desk though20:10
derfI was thinking in particular of
* konttori_ will fix ogg support bugs in ukmp.... There .. ogg_support=False.20:11
konttori_that was nice and easy.20:11
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* qwerty12 imagines konttori_ as a bugmaster. And I do not see konttori_ as a successful bugmaster.20:11
lardmankonttori_: I had issues with kagu earlier20:11
* derf uninstalls ukmp.20:11
lcuk4inch 4inch 4inch 24inch20:11
* lcuk has lag20:12
lardmanderf: ah, fs stuff :)20:12
konttori_I so am going to add ogg support when the packages are nicely installable in the maemo extras and playbin support is reliable20:12
derfWhat's unreliable about playbin?20:12
lcukhiya konttori_, how deep is the snow today? (we had 10cm - first all year)20:13
lardmandoes anyone have history of my earlier rant, around 4.30pm utc? What was that file I was missing? ~/.kagu/ something?20:13
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Stskeepsjohnx: i get binary on .launch as well20:13
Stskeepswill investigate20:13
qwerty12<lardman> kagu crashed with an error too, couldn't open ~/.kagu/album)cashe.tga20:13
qwerty12lcuk beat me :)20:13
lardmanhmm, I didn't even notice the typo earlier20:14
lcuki didnt even see the convo before20:14
lardman~/.kagu/album_cache.tga I guess it was20:14
lcukirc should have a filter field at the top to allow quick reduction like that20:14
lardmankonttori_: kagu crashed on startup with an error about missing the above file20:14
johnxStskeeps, not to engage in too much schadenfreude in it failing for you, but it makes me feel better that I wasn't just doing something dumb20:14
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* lcuk mashes potatoes20:14
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lardmanbetter than peeling them hey? ;)20:15
qwerty12lardman, konttori_ doesn't make kagu... If disq is around, you wish to ask him20:15
* johnx eats his potatoes with the peels on :)20:15
lardmanoh, I thought he did20:15
lardmanmust have got my wires crossed, sorry20:15
konttori_lcuk: no snow anymore. all gone for now.20:15
Stskeepsjohnx: hehe :>20:16
konttori_and yeah, I'm not working on kagu.20:16
lardmanyeah sorry, it was developed from ukmp though wasn't it originally? I must have been thinking along those lines20:17
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lardmanor perhaps just going mad20:17
Stskeepswell that -clearly- says it's -shared20:18
johnxI was thinking it might be connected to that trick where libtool keeps the real binary in .libs and replaces it with a bash script to make testing easier20:18
johnxbut, yes, I was highly confused20:19
Stskeepsi'm willing to bet it's an issue with the order of parameters or something equally scary20:19
disqlardman: hmmm.20:20
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johnxah, good thinking. didn't occur to me at all20:21
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Stskeepsjohnx: compile might take a while since trac is still crapping out20:26
Stskeepsit might actually succeed, too20:27
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lardmandisq: any ideas?20:33
johnxStskeeps, alright, off to bed. I wish you luck with hildon-desktop20:33
lardmandisq: was a fresh install, it did the search and then I started kagu up and it fails on that cover cache file20:33
Stskeepsjohnx: hang on a sec if you're still und20:35
Stskeepsit simply doesn't pass shared in next20:37
Stskeeps(ignroe the extra /'s on the side)20:37
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johnxso wait, that top section is the contents of 'foobar'?20:39
* Stskeeps tries with older automake20:39
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disqlardman: i'll bbl and read the chatlog later, but have you tried rm -r ~/.kagu/ and then doing it all over again?20:41
Stskeepsthink that might solve it20:41
johnxseriously? a new automake?20:41
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Stskeepsh-d uses automake 1.720:41
Stskeepstrying with 1.1020:42
johnxthis does work in scratchbox though20:42
Stskeepswell sb is sb..20:42
Stskeepswill have our answer in a sec or two20:42
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Stskeepsnop, didn't help :P20:43
Stskeeps*sigh* :P20:43
Stskeepswell we have something to hunt now, libtool cting up20:43
Stskeepsheh, "I don't see anything in Android which would make it better than Linux maemo," Lappalainen said.20:46
Stskeepsneato  :P20:46
BULLEStskeeps: other then the fact that android is shipping in mobile phones now, maemo isnt, its only in the internet tablets so far20:47
StskeepsBULLE: for nokia it's probably trivial to add a driver for their cellphone chips..20:47
Stskeepsa bit of wiring, AT commands, .. and you're there20:48
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BULLEStskeeps: and add the missing apps, like phonebook, and so on, but yeah20:49
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johnxyeah, it just eats -shared20:51
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Stskeepsjohnx: fact: diablo sdk in sb uses libtool 1.520:53
Stskeepswe use 2.220:53
johnxyeah, I was worrying about that earlier20:53
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woglindeStskeeps debian unstable is still at libool 1.5 too20:54
woglindejust for notice20:55
Stskeepsjohx.. trying to add -module now20:55
woglindein oe we are at 2.4 while 2.7a is out20:55
johnxhas a thought :)20:57
woglindeand libtool 2.x breaks at more shitty autotools abuse20:57
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* Stskeeps waits for pizza21:03
johnxit drops -shared and -export-dynamic, but not -fPIC or -rdynamic21:03
woglindejohny which package?21:04
johnxfrom Stskeeps earlier:
johnxthe top part being the contents of "foobar" and the bottom, what happens when you run it21:05
Stskeepslibtool experts are welcome to help :P21:07
woglindewhats the exact problem?21:09
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Stskeepshildon-desktop is built as a executable instead of a shared library.21:09
Stskeepsto put it simply21:09
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Stskeepseven though libtool gets explicitly asked to build it shared21:09
johnxlong version: We want to build hildon-desktop with maemo-launcher support. That works by having hildon-desktop compiled as a shared object that maemo-invoker loads21:10
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woglindeStskeeps hm are21:11
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woglindeshow me the Makefile.am21:11
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johnxthe top level one or the one for that directory?21:14
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Stskeepspizza came \o/21:15
Stskeepsfile in question is built in sc/21:16
johnxanyways, I'll leave this in both of your capable hands. I'm off to bed for real21:17
lcukjohnx, you say that all the time, i think you are actually a short shell script21:17
woglindenow I am watching arte21:18
lcukhiya woglinde21:18
johnx/bin/sh while true ; do echo off to bed && sleep 3h ; done21:19
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zs3h? can't be21:19
lcukyou forgot the branch which says "to sleep for real"21:19
* johnx would add it but he's really asleep21:20
lcukgnite john21:21
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woglindeStskeeps ah its easy to fix21:23
woglindeits the same as compiling one or more objects with different LD_FLAGS21:23
Stskeepsso because they have different flags, it bombs out and refuses to add -shared or what? :P21:24
woglindeno no21:24
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woglindestskeep change hildon_desktop_SOURCES to hildon_desktop_la_SOURCES21:27
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woglindethen you can add to maemo-invoker_la_LIBADD hildon_desktop.la21:28
woglindethis should work21:28
lcukStskeeps, just let woglinde send you a patch :D21:31
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woglindethats to trivial21:31
lcukhas that put you off helping woglinde21:32
lcukor do u laff everytime21:32
Stskeepswoglinde: well, since there's no maemo-invoker in source.. :P21:32
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Stskeepsin the .am, that is21:32
woglindeStskeeps haha what is johnx then talking about?21:32
Stskeepswoglinde: that the reason why this thing -ought- to be a shared object and not an executable, is for the purpose of maemo-invoker/launcher21:33
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Stskeepsour problem is really, - libtool links hildon-desktop as a executable, not a shared object21:33
Stskeepseven if it gets asked to21:33
woglindeStskeeps yeah because now it is build als binary21:34
Stskeepswhich it shouldn't be..21:34
woglindewith the _la_ it is build as .o21:34
Stskeepsi mean, we give -shared along to it21:34
woglindein the end21:34
Stskeepsok, so based on src/, how'd you do it then?21:34
woglindewhere are you building maemo-inovker?21:35
Stskeepsok, maemo-launcher/invoker is a system that loads shared objects, so that's out of the picture right now. problem is : under libtool 1.5, hildon-desktop builds the file 'hildon-desktop' as it should, as a .so, under 2.2, it builds it as an executable21:36
Stskeepseven though it has a -shared -fPIC and all that stuff21:36
Stskeepsit leaves out -shared21:37
Stskeepsignore the /'s that prefixes21:37
woglindehm again the _la_ builds a .so21:38
Stskeepslibtool removes the -shared statement, causing it to build an executable21:38
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woglindestskeep are21:41
woglindeand lib_LTLIBRARIES = hildon_desktop.la21:41
woglindeforgot that21:41
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Stskeepsok, looking at it21:42
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Stskeeps~seen GAN80021:49
infobotgan800 <> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 3h 54m 2s ago, saying: 'Tracker should help'.21:49
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Stskeeps"libtool: link: libtool library `' must begin with `lib'22:03
Stskeepsoh for crying out loud22:03
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Stskeepsthis is going to get ugly22:05
lcuki dunno what you are even trying to do22:06
Stskeepsi'm tryin gto make maemo launcher work with a newer libtool22:06
Stskeepsand something tells me this isn't going to be the first time we do this22:06
lcuklast time *22:06
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qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, how do i get an mer sdk?22:07
lcuki gather these restrictions and limitations are new to the version22:07
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: i386 fine?22:07
Stskeepsi don't have an armel one just yet22:07
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, sure22:07
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Stskeepswe test on i386 chroot first, cos if it doesn't work on i386, it probably doesn't on armel either22:08
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, cool, i'll try and set one up in a vm tomorrow22:08
lcuksts, wipe all your pron and backup your current devenv22:09
lcukas a vmimage22:09
qwerty12_N800oh, it's not using sbox so i'll install one into my real ubuntu install22:09
Stskeepsyeah, it's a chroot22:10
Stskeepsarmel we use qemu's in similar fashion22:10
Stskeeps.. for now, would very much like sb2 to start working22:11
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Stskeepsrepo url is subject to change this week sometime possibly22:12
qwerty12_N800eww, i would set a vm then for sb222:13
qwerty12_N800*set up22:13
* qwerty12_N800 finds sb2 not as n00b friendly :)22:13
Stskeepswell if you can get our rootstrap going under sb1.. :P22:14
Stskeepssb2 is the way ahead though22:14
RST38hmoo all22:14
qwerty12_N800all I have to do with sb1 is put vdso=0 in menu.lst and some lines in sysctl.conf. I hear sb2 isn't playing nice with ubuntu atm22:15
qwerty12_N800hey RST38h22:15
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woglindestskeep hm22:28
Stskeepswoglinde: may have gotten it now.. we'll see22:28
Stskeepssat down and read libtool manual22:28
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* qwerty12_N800 reads on how to add a string to an about screen without making the program segfault >.<22:30
woglindeStskeeps hm its not the automake doc too22:30
Stskeepsit had a reference to some automake stuff22:30
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woglindeStskeeps hm but where is the problem to name it lib22:31
Stskeepswoglinde: i forgot -module22:31
woglindehm hm22:32
Stskeeps(it is a .so, not a :P)22:32
Stskeepsas in, a module to be loaded22:32
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woglindeare yes22:33
woglindeand there are the automake lines for this22:33
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woglindemymodule_la_LDFLAGS = -module22:34
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woglindeand maemo_invoker_LTLIBRARIES = hildo-desktop.la22:36
woglindecase closed22:36
woglindeI think22:36
Stskeepswe'll see :P22:36
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lcukqwerty12_N800, you oculd do it like you used to with windows :P use a hex editor "haxx0red by qwerty"22:39
lcuk(or still do :P)22:39
qwerty12_N800lcuk, :P, since I stopped dabbling with phone patches, I haven't touched an hex editor since :( .  but I did have some good times remotely executing "small cock alert" (changed from small penis alert) :P22:41
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Stskeepsgreat..  (spam bots)22:51
GeneralAntillesYou've arrived! :P22:52
Stskeepswb home GA, i guess22:53
GeneralAntillesMy computer's still waking up. . . .22:53
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: to be nitpicky, -is- a nokia domain :>22:53
Stskeeps(according to whois)22:53
GeneralAntillesYou know what I mean. . . .22:53
Stskeepshehe, yeah :)22:53
GeneralAntillesI'm quite certain they'd transfer it in a heart beat if it were requested.22:53
guardianevening, i would love to learn clutter, i'm looking for maemo apps making stuning use of it, could you please recommend some ?22:53
Stskeepsguardian: .. we're waiting for GL and clutter in the community :)22:54
GeneralAntillesguardian, none yet.22:54
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GeneralAntillesguardian, MAYBE there'll be the first small starts with the Fremantle alpha SDK.22:54
guardiannone because there is no acceleration on N800/N810 ?22:54
GeneralAntillesBut for sure there'll be some with the beta SDK release in May.22:54
lardmanI'm shattered, night all, cu tomorrow22:54
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guardianGeneralAntilles: Fremantle is next sdk release, for N900 ?22:55
GeneralAntillesguardian, Fremantle is Maemo 5, which will run on whatever tablet Nokia releases next.22:55
guardiansorry for the cluelessness22:55
guardianlong time no maemo coding22:55
GeneralAntillesguardian, you may want to look at Ubuntu Mobile if you want a head start.22:56
guardianah yeah, i still need to install that on a samsung Q122:56
guardianthere is one lying around at work22:56
guardianit has vista, no one uses it :)22:57
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lcukGeneralAntilles, are we porting maemo to n9722:58
Stskeepsget a bootloader and i'm on it22:58
lcuk:D heh22:58
Stskeeps.. well, .. linux kernel booting22:58
GeneralAntilleslcuk, not anytime soon.22:58
GeneralAntillesPractically nobody's hacked open Nokia's phones.22:59
lcuksts, i know you are joking, you would ask for a device to test22:59
lcukis that because of lack of desirables? or simply price?22:59
lcukthe new one reminds me of n810 muchly22:59
Stskeepslcuk: if someone has a kernel booting and ability to flash, - i'm in :P22:59
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qwerty12_N800with  some early models (n80 etc) people were able to flash hexedited firmware (*cough* lcuk) as an early method of opening up more permissions for apps23:02
guardianGeneralAntilles: is ubuntu mobile all gtk based like maemo ?23:02
woglindestskeep hm there is another phone you can port maemo to23:02
GeneralAntillesguardian, yeah, and they're using Clutter right now.23:02
GeneralAntillesguardian, they're actually fairly close to Maemo in a lot of ways.23:03
Stskeepswoglinde: with 800x480? :P23:03
woglindeE-TEN glofiish M80023:04
woglindehm okay23:04
lcuk800*480 is overrated :P23:04
lcukbut purty23:04
Stskeepswell, i dunno how hildon looks on 640x48023:04
lcukif its designed right it should look the same :P23:05
Stskeepsprobably better if the fotn sizes werent huge..23:05
woglindeonly 640x48023:05
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lcukwoglinde, 640 should be enough for anyone23:05
guardianGeneralAntilles: is ubuntu mobile what's on intel classmate pcs ?23:06
XTLAm I wasting my time trying to look up how to access the dsp chip on n810?23:06
XTLAnd whether there are any compilers23:06
GeneralAntillesguardian, dunno. They target MIDs and UMPCs, though.23:06
GeneralAntillesguardian, Intel's got Moblin.23:07
StskeepsXTL: people have done DSP programming before23:07
lcukxtl, there is an open source dsp compiler toolchain available23:07
GeneralAntilleslcuk, 800x480 is not overrated.23:07
GeneralAntillesYou just do too much stuff that's less dependent on resolution.23:07
woglinde800x480 is better for nx23:07
woglindehm remindes23:07
woglindeto put out the freerunner23:07
Stskeepswoglinde: .. looks interesting23:08
lcukxtl, i dont use it, but lardman does lots of dsp dev23:08
lcukif he were here he would tell you what was needed, but i also think hes setup a wiki page about it all23:08
woglindestskeeps based on lafOrges work we have first support in oe23:08
XTLArgh.. funny that that didn't show up on searches :)23:09
Stskeepswoglinde: i'll keep that device in mind for Mer, yeah23:09
woglindeXTL wiki searches mostly dont find want you want23:09
woglindeeven it is there23:10
woglindeits the same on the openmoko wiki23:10
Stskeepswoglinde: how expensive is an m800?23:10
woglindeoh 474 euros23:11
XTLThe compiler sounds pretty gruesome. Mostly I'm interested on how to get the results on the chip, though.23:11
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woglindeoh23:11 has it at 250 euros23:11
lcukxtl, what do you mean results on the chip?23:12
lcukoyu have to build and run code to get results23:12
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XTLlcuk: I mean load the actual binary and run it on a real target23:12
woglindestskeep mormal price the vendor suggest 64923:12
* lcuk sprinkles fairydust for xtl :D23:12
XTLdsp chips/boards seem to be hard to come by and/or expensive23:12
Stskeepswoglinde: ah, armv4t though23:12
lcukxtl, i have a dsp inside my n81023:13
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XTL(expect dspic)23:13
GeneralAntillesXTL, Beagle's a good platform to play with if you're interested in getting read for the N900.23:13
lcukand the code built with the free compiler works on it23:13
lcukyes agreed gen :D23:13
XTLBut since I have the n810, that might be one way to mess with dsps23:13
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lcukStskeeps, woglinde that glofish looks nifty23:15
GAN800XTL, lardman's usually about, and he knows a thing or two about the DSP, so pick his brain if you run into him.23:15
Stskeepslcuk: yeah, but also armv4 it seems23:15
lcukbut the keyboard has a windows key for some reason23:15
XTLGAN800: I'll keep that in mind23:15
woglindelcuk hehe you can paint it what you want23:16
woglindelcuk normaly it runs windows mobile23:16
lcukwhy would i paint over it - i want windows on my phone damnit \@/23:16
lcuknot pathetic crap cutdown windows, i want the full windows fistula experience23:17
lcuk"someone wants to call you, cancel or allow" type things23:17
woglinde+lcuk you can switch it to linux23:17
lcukspeaking of which i need to change my desktop23:19
XTLGeneric Host Process for winmo has encountered a problem and needs to close23:21
thopiekargood evening ;D23:23
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thopiekarto all the germans here in the channel...23:23
thopiekarguten abend alle zusammen... ich habe seit kurzem ein forum erstellt.. in dem es vorallem darum geht auf internettablets von nokia programme zu entwickeln..  außerdem soll hier das verständnis und interesse für neulinge geweckt werden ... dabei läuft auf diesen Geräten ein voller Linux Kernel + Debain.. außerdem soll hier das verständnis und interesse für neulinge geweckt werden  ...ich weiß23:23
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thopiekarschönen abend noch..23:24
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Stskeepsdid we just get hit-and-run germaned+23:24
Benny1967Stskeeps: warum fragst du? ;)23:25
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qwerty12_N800So Debian is Debain in German...23:25
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Stskeepsthere's actually quite a bit of armv4t stuff on market23:29
GAN800It still slow. :(23:30
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suihkulokkiStskeeps: there's even people who are unhappy about dropping support for armv4 (without t..)23:38
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* Stskeeps wonders how much of hildon that breaks horridly under libtool2 when it comes to dealing with launcher23:52
woglindeStskeeps ;(23:52
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Stskeepswoglinde: i got it working now but it wasn't a pretty fix23:53
woglindehm why?23:53
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woglindestskeeps hm looks good23:56
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Stskeepsi'd really prefer it to put it in bin first than put in some plugin folder..23:57

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