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| * GAN800 chuckles at the Thanks. http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=245711&postcount=90 | 00:08 | |
| * qwerty12_N800 hits the thanks button :p | 00:09 | |
| * GAN800 generates a hit list. ;) | 00:09 | |
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| GAN800 | lcuk, it doesn't have anything to do with sources. | 00:28 |
|---|---|---|
| lcuk | of course it does | 00:28 |
| lcuk | if its open we can fix things ourselves | 00:28 |
| GAN800 | They don't care whether the fix is available for them to use or not, only whether Nokia ships an official Fremantle image for OMAP2 | 00:29 |
| lcuk | there is a good chance that the bugs noticed are gonna be in incompatible packages | 00:29 |
| GAN800 | No, really, that discussion isn't related to sources. | 00:29 |
| lcuk | if they want to be opensource they will not juist kill an actively used code branch without doing something about it | 00:29 |
| GAN800 | Most of these bugs have been resolved on open source stuff | 00:29 |
| lcuk | then whats the problem? | 00:30 |
| lcuk | its available | 00:30 |
| lcuk | isnt it? | 00:30 |
| GAN800 | While source may be relevant to the larger picture, it isn't to that discussion. | 00:30 |
| GAN800 | It's that people are stupid | 00:30 |
| GAN800 | They don't seem to realize that Fremantle's openness really enables a community backport | 00:31 |
| GAN800 | They only seem to be concerned with FUD | 00:31 |
| lcuk | which os have you got in your 770 | 00:32 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk, the main issue is the need for community editions which actually remix the newer packages into the mix | 00:32 |
| lcuk | yes sts | 00:33 |
| lcuk | and one of those ingredients is simple fixes to the existing software | 00:33 |
| lcuk | not waiting for a whole os to be backported | 00:33 |
| lcuk | lots of people are happy with their current system | 00:34 |
| Stskeeps | most bugs can be fixed by simply compiling the new packages | 00:34 |
| lcuk | hopefully | 00:34 |
| GAN800 | OS2008HE | 00:34 |
| Stskeeps | and the mechanism for delivering those sanely doesn't exist yet | 00:34 |
| lcuk | GAN800, i hear lots of folks in here who try it as primary and have dropped back | 00:35 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, technically svn would work | 00:35 |
| Stskeeps | (should community take over SSU maintaince? | 00:35 |
| lcuk | shouldnt owner simply be able to choose ssu server? | 00:36 |
| lcuk | nokia|maemo | 00:36 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, i really dont see why not, its not much different to extras | 00:36 |
| lcuk | infact itsthe same isnt it | 00:36 |
| lcuk | i get update reports from extras | 00:36 |
| Stskeeps | or atleast ability to push updates to be included in ssus | 00:37 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, ssu servers are just plain repo with h-a-m having instructions to treat it as an software update repo | 00:37 |
| lcuk | yeah qwerty | 00:37 |
| qwerty12_N800 | actually, people even apt-get upgrade instead of using h-a-m to upgrade to an new ssu | 00:38 |
| Stskeeps | GAN800: worth considering, - maemo community can contribute updated packages for ssu? | 00:38 |
| Stskeeps | mechanism for this | 00:38 |
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| GAN800 | Stskeeps, osv-c | 00:39 |
| GAN800 | We should just roll our own if we're going thaat route. | 00:39 |
| lcuk | its not unreasonable - ive heard about oss keeping old versions alive in all the camps over the years, why we dont consider it here is strange. at least iin the short term it would relieve anxiety from people | 00:40 |
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| GAN800 | lcuk, to each his own | 00:41 |
| GAN800 | I like OS2008HE | 00:41 |
| Stskeeps | GAN800: well also a way for nokia to gain from community | 00:41 |
| lcuk | gan, people buy a tool, they invest time in making sure it works for them and sometimes simply dont want to change | 00:41 |
| Stskeeps | and keeping older devices going | 00:41 |
| GAN800 | lcuk, that's fine. | 00:41 |
| lcuk | if fremantle on device is stable in 12 months they might change | 00:42 |
| Stskeeps | k, sleep time | 00:42 |
| GAN800 | Stskeeps, there's no need to involve Nokia beyond perhaps enlisting them for additional support | 00:42 |
| Stskeeps | k | 00:42 |
| GAN800 | But if we're pushing a community edition, best to go all the way. | 00:42 |
| lcuk | GAN800, im simply thinking it would ease tension :) | 00:42 |
| GAN800 | No need to piggyback on Nokia's setup. | 00:42 |
| GAN800 | lcuk, you're tossing irrelevant things into the mix. :P | 00:43 |
| lcuk | yeah, but theres middle ground in all camps - im really looking forward to playing with the new devices | 00:43 |
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| killfill | hi! | 01:26 |
| killfill | how do i control the volume from console? | 01:26 |
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| killfill | or how do i scan bluetooth devicves from console?... | 01:31 |
| killfill | hcitool doesnt exist.. :S | 01:31 |
| BabelO | killfill: sdptool browse or inquire | 01:36 |
| BabelO | sdptool search | 01:36 |
| killfill | BabelO, all i have is dp-query | 01:37 |
| killfill | sdp-query | 01:38 |
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| BabelO | killfill: so you miss package | 01:38 |
| BabelO | did you try hcitool inq | 01:39 |
| BabelO | you need the bluez backage | 01:39 |
| BabelO | or blueztools | 01:39 |
| killfill | hcitool doesnt exist either.. :S | 01:39 |
| killfill | apt-cache search blueztools | 01:39 |
| killfill | doesnt give output.. :S | 01:40 |
| woglinde | bluze-utils | 01:40 |
| killfill | oh.. just fond this: http://fanoush.wz.cz/maemo/#kbdd | 01:40 |
| killfill | it doesnt contain any binary.. :S | 01:40 |
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| killfill | guys.. and how do i set the volume? | 01:47 |
| killfill | i wish to i.e. mute it.. or set it to 90% etc. | 01:47 |
| killfill | from console | 01:47 |
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| l7 | hrm, i wish i knew | 01:50 |
| l7 | maybe you can edit something /proc | 01:50 |
| Mousey | aumix? alsamixer? | 01:50 |
| l7 | but don't take my word for it | 01:50 |
| GuySoft | hey, when debian lenny comes out. would mamo move the lenny codebase? | 01:52 |
| GAN800 | GuySoft, Fremantle is upgrading many libraries | 01:52 |
| GAN800 | It's not dependent on Debian cycles, though. | 01:53 |
| GuySoft | Fremantle? | 01:53 |
| Mousey | huh? | 01:53 |
| GuySoft | GAN800, it just seemed logical to me since now its part etch part lenny.. and when lenny comes out they will support the armel architecture.. | 01:53 |
| GAN800 | GuySoft, check the wikipedia article on Maemo, but it's the next release. | 01:54 |
| Mousey | why aren't you running stable and testing and unstable already tho? | 01:54 |
| GAN800 | ~maemo | 01:54 |
| infobot | somebody said maemo was a development platform to create applications for Nokia 770 Internet Tablet and other maemo compliant handheld devices in the future. http://www.maemo.org/ | 01:54 |
| Mousey | why wait for releases, i didn't think that's how debian worked, and it certainly seems that way since they NEVER release | 01:54 |
| GuySoft | i am just annoyed i carn't cross-compile anything because the packages carnt be moved from debian to maemo.. and it seems logical since its really simular | 01:55 |
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| killfill | Mousey, alsamixer doesnt seem to exist.. :S | 02:18 |
| killfill | do you have it?.. | 02:18 |
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| Mousey | rats | 02:19 |
| Mousey | no, i haven't checked | 02:19 |
| Mousey | those are just some cli mixers in debian/ubuntu i've seen.. | 02:20 |
| Mousey | maybe they can be built for/under maemo? | 02:20 |
| Mousey | apt-get source -b style | 02:20 |
| Mousey | shrug | 02:20 |
| killfill | hm.. :S | 02:25 |
| killfill | damn volume. S | 02:28 |
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| l7 | http://arstechnica.com/news.ars/post/20081128-intels-linux-based-moblin-platform-arrives-on-devices.html | 02:55 |
| zakkm | hey l7 | 02:55 |
| l7 | heya zakkm | 02:56 |
| EgS | never heared of moblin... but those specs aren't shabby | 02:56 |
| zakkm | The platform leverages the GNOME Mobile and Embedded stack and uses Hildon, a derivative of the GTK+ toolkit that was originally designed by Nokia for Internet tablet devices. It also includes a modified version of the Firefox 3 web browser. Developers who want to get a head start hacking on the platform can download the source code from Intel's Git repository. | 02:56 |
| zakkm | has a modified version of firefox 3.. and uses hildon? | 02:57 |
| zakkm | why doesnt maemo have that then? :P | 02:57 |
| l7 | yeah, hildon | 02:57 |
| EgS | maybe it's fennec? | 02:57 |
| zakkm | ah maybe | 02:57 |
| zakkm | just curious ;p | 02:57 |
| l7 | isn't the problem the maemo's processor? | 02:57 |
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| EgS | or firefox mobile or whatever they call it now... but fennec wasn't fun on the n810... way too slow | 02:58 |
| zakkm | it was slow on my pc too ;p | 02:58 |
| EgS | lol .9 | 02:58 |
| EgS | :) | 02:58 |
| zakkm | Pentinum E2180 dual;p | 02:58 |
| l7 | i wonder if nokia would considering using atom on it's n900 | 02:58 |
| EgS | o_O how did they achieve such bad performance?! | 02:58 |
| l7 | ubuntu is offically supporting atom on it's mobile remix as well | 02:59 |
| GAN800 | zakkm, we have exactly that. . . | 02:59 |
| zakkm | ubuntu supports my atom cpu :) | 02:59 |
| zakkm | x86 version though of course | 02:59 |
| GAN800 | The next release of Fennec should address a lot of the performance issues. | 03:00 |
| l7 | the street price of 368 USD makes it rather competitive with the n810 | 03:00 |
| GAN800 | l7, I hope the hell not | 03:00 |
| l7 | why not? | 03:00 |
| GAN800 | Unless you WANT an hour and a half of battery and 6 hours idle. :roll: | 03:00 |
| l7 | heh | 03:01 |
| GAN800 | Because the Atom is still shit as far as mobile CPUs go | 03:01 |
| GAN800 | It's not even an SoC yet | 03:01 |
| GAN800 | The OMAP3 is so much more badass | 03:01 |
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| GAN800 | The Atom will MAYBE be competative in 2 years | 03:01 |
| GAN800 | But it's not even in the same league right now. | 03:02 |
| l7 | the article doesn't mention battery life | 03:02 |
| l7 | SoC? | 03:02 |
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| EgS | system on chip | 03:02 |
| GAN800 | System on a Chip | 03:02 |
| GAN800 | Atom is just a CPU | 03:02 |
| GAN800 | OMAP3 is CPU, GPU, DSP, memory controller, and bus controllers on one die. | 03:03 |
| GAN800 | Which gives you rather significant cost and power savings. | 03:03 |
| l7 | then it'll need a bigger heavier battery to compensate i suppose | 03:03 |
| zakkm | what is the DSP exactly? | 03:03 |
| zakkm | whats its job? | 03:03 |
| l7 | i wonder what the real world battery life figures will work out to | 03:04 |
| GAN800 | Anyway, there's really no advantage--and several extreme disadvabtages--in using an x86 CPU when Windows compatability isn't in the equation. | 03:04 |
| soap | the kind of math associated with multimedia. | 03:04 |
| GAN800 | zakkm, Digital Signal Processor | 03:04 |
| l7 | when is fennec's next release coming out by the way? | 03:04 |
| zakkm | i know what it stands for | 03:04 |
| zakkm | but what does it do | 03:04 |
| GAN800 | l7, 1-4 hours active, maybe 8 idle | 03:05 |
| GAN800 | Compared to 4-8 hours active and 14-30 days idle. | 03:05 |
| GAN800 | zakkm, processes digital signals. ;) | 03:05 |
| EgS | dsps are strong in floating ops and are strong on MAC units and provide very lowlevel control | 03:05 |
| GAN800 | Audio and video decoding | 03:05 |
| GAN800 | l7, shouldn't be too far off | 03:06 |
| EgS | GAN800: you're involved in fennec development? | 03:06 |
| l7 | won't the intel architecture make it easier to port linux apps though? | 03:06 |
| EgS | compared to? other architectures? well gcc supports lots of architectures, so not really | 03:07 |
| GAN800 | EgS, no, I just like to stay informed and have talked to the devs a bit. :) | 03:08 |
| GAN800 | l7, no | 03:08 |
| EgS | GAN800: aah ok, but good to know. I really liked the concept of the interface | 03:08 |
| GAN800 | l7, barely anything is really architecture dependent these days | 03:08 |
| GAN800 | and the massive disadvantages of x86 far outweigh anyway. | 03:09 |
| l7 | okay, i was just curious why there aren't that many standard linux apps in the extras repo | 03:09 |
| EgS | many of those disadvantages can be coped with by the microarchitecture though | 03:09 |
| GAN800 | l7, that's a library/platform issue | 03:09 |
| GAN800 | maemo-gtk is a bit funkt | 03:10 |
| GAN800 | s/kt/ky/ | 03:10 |
| infobot | GAN800 meant: maemo-gtk is a bit funky | 03:10 |
| * zakkm is installing easy debian :P | 03:10 | |
| GAN800 | EgS, massively higher power consumption compared to ARM being first and foremost. | 03:10 |
| EgS | GAN800: power consumption is not part of the architecture... | 03:10 |
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| l7 | zakkm: where's the easy debian download? | 03:11 |
| GAN800 | an x86 CPU aint gonna be comparable to an ARM CPU anytime soon | 03:11 |
| zakkm | got it off forum | 03:11 |
| GAN800 | particularly when you factor in the chipsets. | 03:11 |
| zakkm | it was a "one-click" thingy | 03:11 |
| l7 | heh, i have to admit one-click has it's appeals | 03:11 |
| zakkm | ANNOUNCE: Easy Debian Turbo-Charged Edition! | 03:12 |
| EgS | GAN800: that is true though :) but as the architecture just defines the assembly commands it doesn't say anything about the power consumption | 03:12 |
| EgS | GAN800: but yes ARM is a very cool architecture | 03:12 |
| GAN800 | EgS, the reality is that you can't consider the architecture independly of other factors. :p | 03:12 |
| EgS | GAN800: due to the market requirements... yes :) | 03:13 |
| EgS | GAN800: theoretically you could... but then you would end up with a product no one would buy :) | 03:13 |
| GAN800 | Thus, moot discussion. ;) | 03:13 |
| EgS | :) | 03:13 |
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| GAN800 | I want that ARM GPU | 03:14 |
| GAN800 | Ditching Imagination Tech would be great | 03:15 |
| l7 | so when is the n900 coming out? | 03:15 |
| GAN800 | It's not been announced, but Summer 2009 is a safe bet. | 03:15 |
| l7 | i'm guess it will have the n810's form factor more or less | 03:15 |
| l7 | s/guess/guessing/ | 03:16 |
| infobot | l7 meant: i'm guessing it will have the n810's form factor more or less | 03:16 |
| EgS | hehe cool feature of the bot :) | 03:16 |
| l7 | it is an exciting time to be a linux user these days | 03:16 |
| l7 | yeah, i love that feature | 03:16 |
| l7 | the wiki feature is cool too though i wish i knew what the index of possible commands are | 03:17 |
| zakkm | anyone think fremantle will be alot quicker than diablo? | 03:17 |
| GAN800 | l7, you just define them as you go along | 03:17 |
| GAN800 | ~l7 is a letter and a number. :p | 03:17 |
| infobot | GAN800: okay | 03:17 |
| l7 | lol | 03:18 |
| zakkm | l7 is a lucky number 7 :P | 03:18 |
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| GAN800 | zakkm, on the same hardware? No. | 03:18 |
| zakkm | yeah same hardware | 03:18 |
| GAN800 | But more optimized? Significantly. | 03:18 |
| l7 | ~GAN800 is three letters and three numbers :) | 03:18 |
| infobot | okay, l7 | 03:18 |
| GAN800 | on faster hardware it'll scream. | 03:18 |
| zakkm | lol wouldnt that mean quicker? | 03:18 |
| zakkm | in a sense? | 03:18 |
| zakkm | depending optimization | 03:19 |
| GAN800 | zakkm, it's also heavier | 03:19 |
| GAN800 | Clutter and such | 03:19 |
| GAN800 | Diablo MicroB to Fremantle MicroB, Fremantle will be faster by a large margin. | 03:19 |
| zakkm | should leave microb :P | 03:20 |
| zakkm | google chrome! :P | 03:20 |
| zakkm | google chrome goes ARM! :P | 03:20 |
| GAN800 | Bleh | 03:20 |
| GAN800 | Chrome isn't designed for mobile platforms. | 03:20 |
| zakkm | has a sick tab feature ;p | 03:20 |
| Mousey | neither is android | 03:20 |
| GAN800 | It's designed to eat up big desktop machine resources to go faster. | 03:21 |
| l7 | Mousey: neither is android? | 03:21 |
| Mousey | i'm being silly, ignore me | 03:21 |
| l7 | heh | 03:21 |
| l7 | the fact that you need to jailbreak android devices bugs me | 03:21 |
| glass_ | but it's not surprising | 03:22 |
| l7 | maybe it's the prevent people from unlocking their phones | 03:23 |
| l7 | what do you guys think of the neo freerunner by the way? | 03:24 |
| * zakkm favourite phone is the tmobile sidekicks | 03:26 | |
| GAN800 | l7, hardware sucks, software aint great. | 03:27 |
| GAN800 | hardware is understandable, but the software is just a mess. | 03:27 |
| l7 | yeah, that is my impression too | 03:27 |
| l7 | android will be available for it soon though | 03:28 |
| l7 | Koolu Beta port of Android will be available to download for existing Freerunner owners and installed on phones for sale in December 2008. | 03:28 |
| l7 | http://www.koolu.com/ | 03:28 |
| l7 | dunno if it's worth $400 USD though | 03:28 |
| l7 | zakkm: what do you like about the sidekicks? | 03:29 |
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| zakkm | the design | 03:30 |
| l7 | can you get a decent terminal session with a few apps like ssh, wget and mplayer on it? | 03:30 |
| zakkm | i loved them way before the whole iphone, ipod touch, touchscreen stuff | 03:30 |
| zakkm | i also live in toronto, Canada so the only way to get one is like ebay ;p | 03:31 |
| l7 | the iphone or the sidekick? | 03:31 |
| zakkm | sidekick | 03:31 |
| l7 | weird, there's no tmobile in Canada? | 03:32 |
| zakkm | nope | 03:33 |
| l7 | i have to say the keyboard on the sidekick does look nice | 03:33 |
| zakkm | would like nokia + sidekick for actual calls | 03:34 |
| l7 | there's so many interesting devices in the pocket sized form factor | 03:35 |
| zakkm | its a cellphone though | 03:35 |
| zakkm | which i need for work | 03:35 |
| zakkm | and im 17 in a city... so teenage use too | 03:35 |
| l7 | heh | 03:35 |
| l7 | it looks like a nice texting platform | 03:35 |
| l7 | really, i just want to carry one device around anyway, so it has to be a phone | 03:36 |
| l7 | though i would probably get a n900 too if i found the extra cash at some point | 03:36 |
| l7 | and if it was truely The Awesome that it seems it will be | 03:37 |
| l7 | s/was/will be/ | 03:37 |
| infobot | l7 meant: and if it will be truely The Awesome that it seems it will be | 03:37 |
| zakkm | how do i type in easy deebian? | 03:37 |
| l7 | no bluetooth support? | 03:37 |
| l7 | i think you have to find the virtual keyboard app | 03:38 |
| l7 | there's a youtube video walkthrough of sorts if you look for deblet | 03:38 |
| zakkm | thats deblet though | 03:38 |
| zakkm | deblet kills battery alot i heard, so i figured i shouldnt use that | 03:39 |
| zakkm | thought easy debian might be better | 03:39 |
| l7 | hrm | 03:39 |
| l7 | isn't easy debian in the extras repo? | 03:39 |
| zakkm | yeah | 03:40 |
| zakkm | thats why i got it | 03:40 |
| zakkm | haha this so cool | 03:40 |
| zakkm | lxde on nokia | 03:41 |
| l7 | did you install easy-deb-chroot? | 03:41 |
| zakkm | yes | 03:41 |
| l7 | ah | 03:41 |
| l7 | no need to look in the forums for that | 03:41 |
| zakkm | i got it from forums though | 03:41 |
| zakkm | cause i wanted to read the installing notes | 03:42 |
| l7 | is it the same version? | 03:42 |
| zakkm | yes | 03:43 |
| zakkm | so slow | 03:43 |
| zakkm | maemo is soo much quicker | 03:43 |
| zakkm | heard it was slower, realized it must be.. but didnt realize this significantly | 03:44 |
| l7 | oh well | 03:45 |
| l7 | is deblet faster? | 03:45 |
| zakkm | never tried | 03:46 |
| zakkm | but i heard battery life sucks alot | 03:46 |
| l7 | i wouldn't mind trading a bit of battery just to play around with a faster system for a bit | 03:46 |
| zakkm | true but that would require a new partition and dualbooting and all | 03:47 |
| l7 | i would just put it on a spare SD care and wipe it after i'm done messing around | 03:50 |
| l7 | s/care/card/ | 03:50 |
| infobot | l7 meant: i would just put it on a spare SD card and wipe it after i'm done messing around | 03:50 |
| zakkm | dont have a spare ;p | 03:51 |
| l7 | oh well | 03:51 |
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| l7 | they're about $2-3 per gig these days including shipping | 03:52 |
| l7 | in the US anyway, dunno how much prices are like in CA | 03:52 |
| l7 | i was hoping my shiny new kingston card would be able to write at greater than 2MB/s though | 03:53 |
| z4chh | anyone know how to get the clear function for the nxxo shell? | 03:53 |
| l7 | maybe it's just an internal IO limitation | 03:53 |
| z4chh | it's kind of important :D | 03:53 |
| l7 | z4chh: there's ctrl-l | 03:53 |
| z4chh | aww i like clear though xD | 03:54 |
| l7 | i wish there was a proper clear command | 03:54 |
| l7 | me too | 03:54 |
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| z4chh | i'm a clear guy >.> | 03:54 |
| zakkm | im in a city | 03:54 |
| zakkm | i dont buy anything shipped | 03:54 |
| zakkm | lol | 03:54 |
| l7 | same here | 03:54 |
| l7 | z4chh: try ROXterm | 03:54 |
| zakkm | i have 2, 4gb SD's | 03:54 |
| zakkm | which are in my nokia n800's | 03:54 |
| zakkm | but they're full | 03:54 |
| zakkm | and i boot off one of them | 03:54 |
| z4chh | it comes naturally to me...i see a screen full of information..my instict is to type clear as fast i can and snap that enter button :D | 03:54 |
| l7 | you can do reset and clear on ROXterm | 03:55 |
| z4chh | as in...get out of my sight! | 03:55 |
| l7 | yeah me too | 03:55 |
| z4chh | yay l7 clear buddies! | 03:55 |
| l7 | heh | 03:55 |
| l7 | it's just about minimizing the amound of clutter | 03:55 |
| z4chh | totally, you got to keep that terminal organized | 03:56 |
| z4chh | i finally added colors to my prompt on my n800..can't see how i lived without them o_o | 03:57 |
| l7 | oh yeah, there's a particular 32GB adata class 6 card out there that is really bad and can only write at 2MB/s even from a PC | 03:57 |
| l7 | but i also have a different adata card that is nice and fast | 03:58 |
| z4chh | you have a 32gb sdhc? | 03:58 |
| l7 | z4chh: how did you add color? | 03:58 |
| z4chh | .bashrc | 03:58 |
| l7 | no, i returned it | 03:58 |
| l7 | it was total crap in terms of speed | 03:58 |
| zakkm | 32gb is too much | 03:58 |
| l7 | not really | 03:58 |
| z4chh | id kill to have 64gb on my n800 ;p | 03:58 |
| zakkm | i would to, but price wise | 03:59 |
| l7 | it's great for media since i use mytube a lot | 03:59 |
| zakkm | not worth it to me | 03:59 |
| zakkm | canola caan download off youtube cant it? | 03:59 |
| l7 | hrm yeah, the price per gig is little more | 03:59 |
| z4chh | zakkm, yep not right now | 03:59 |
| z4chh | zakkm, with a plugin | 03:59 |
| l7 | hmm | 03:59 |
| l7 | oh wait, that was a 16 gb i got | 03:59 |
| l7 | it was all around $2 USD per gig actually | 03:59 |
| l7 | as long as your card doesn't crap out | 04:00 |
| z4chh | how much memory does the 16gb really give? | 04:00 |
| l7 | uhm 16gb, minus whatever formatting overhead you have | 04:00 |
| zakkm | z4chh: its a %.. | 04:00 |
| l7 | maybe ext has a lower % of overhead, not sure | 04:00 |
| z4chh | i'd probably format mine fat32..dos fs | 04:02 |
| l7 | why? | 04:02 |
| z4chh | why not? | 04:02 |
| z4chh | >.< | 04:02 |
| l7 | fat32's data integrity worries me a bit | 04:02 |
| zakkm | formatting doesnt actually do much | 04:02 |
| l7 | could be superstition though | 04:02 |
| zakkm | its cause they market 16gb as 16 billion bytes... | 04:02 |
| zakkm | but 16gb isnt 16 billion bytes | 04:02 |
| zakkm | 16 billion bytes is like 14 gb | 04:02 |
| zakkm | fat32, ext, ntfs.. doesnt change much | 04:03 |
| l7 | same level of data integrity? | 04:03 |
| zakkm | cluster size maybe, but yeah | 04:03 |
| zakkm | no like | 04:03 |
| zakkm | if you look at a box that says 120gb harddrive | 04:03 |
| zakkm | somewhere on it it says 120GB = 120 000 000 bytes | 04:03 |
| zakkm | but its 1024 kb to a mb ... not 1000 | 04:04 |
| zakkm | therefore its like 110gb... not 120gb | 04:04 |
| l7 | ext3 has journalling which protects you a bit in event of a crash | 04:04 |
| zakkm | its a marketing gimmick.. the advertised GB | 04:04 |
| l7 | mostly i don't want my huge cache of mytube videos to get corrupted | 04:04 |
| zakkm | event of a power crash ;p | 04:05 |
| zakkm | when would that happen | 04:05 |
| GAN800 | FAT isn't worth using unless you have to deal with non-Linuc machines, then it's required. | 04:05 |
| Mousey | needs to read GiB | 04:05 |
| l7 | zakkm: well applications do crash | 04:06 |
| z4chh | GAN800, true..that was probably my reason for using fat32..if i had to use a windows machine | 04:06 |
| zakkm | applications do | 04:06 |
| l7 | and there's random spontaneous reboots sometimes | 04:06 |
| zakkm | but journaling is for if its unmounted unsafely | 04:06 |
| zakkm | which would only happen if its a power cut | 04:06 |
| l7 | well not random, it's usually when i tax the system by opening a bunch of crap | 04:06 |
| zakkm | system being nokia or desktop? | 04:07 |
| z4chh | anyone know if osso_xterm can have the scrollbar taken off? | 04:07 |
| zakkm | z4chh: it can | 04:07 |
| l7 | zakkm: on maemo | 04:07 |
| zakkm | some gconf line | 04:07 |
| l7 | i don't think ubuntu has ever spontaenously rebooted on me | 04:07 |
| soap | how can a class 6 card only write 2 MB/s? That would be a class 2 card. | 04:07 |
| z4chh | zakkm, how so? i don't see a gui way to do it | 04:08 |
| zakkm | gconf line = command... | 04:08 |
| zakkm | or if gconf-editor .. is on the nokia, but i dont think it is | 04:08 |
| l7 | z4chh: try "gconftool --set --type=bool /apps/osso/xterm/scrollbar 0" | 04:09 |
| l7 | who was it that originally mentioned that? | 04:09 |
| l7 | ~remove-osso-scrollbar is "gconftool --set --type=bool /apps/osso/xterm/scrollbar 0" | 04:10 |
| infobot | l7: okay | 04:10 |
| l7 | ~remove-osso-scrollbar | 04:10 |
| infobot | hmm... remove-osso-scrollbar is "gconftool --set --type=bool /apps/osso/xterm/scrollbar 0" | 04:10 |
| l7 | hrm maybe that should be | 04:10 |
| l7 | ~remove-scrollbar | 04:10 |
| z4chh | it works | 04:10 |
| z4chh | :) | 04:10 |
| l7 | heh | 04:10 |
| z4chh | now my xterm is without any gui filth >:) muwhahahahahhahah | 04:11 |
| l7 | ~remove-xterm-scrollbar is "gconftool --set --type=bool /apps/osso/xterm/scrollbar 0" | 04:11 |
| infobot | okay, l7 | 04:11 |
| l7 | infobot, forget ~remove-osso-scrollbar | 04:11 |
| infobot | l7: i didn't have anything called '~remove-osso-scrollbar' to forget | 04:11 |
| l7 | doh | 04:12 |
| l7 | z4chh: you can still scroll by dragging and selecting text with the stylus | 04:12 |
| l7 | only works in windowed mode | 04:12 |
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| z4chh | yep | 04:13 |
| z4chh | works great | 04:13 |
| l7 | soap: yeah that would make it a crappy class 6 card | 04:14 |
| l7 | could be counterfeited | 04:14 |
| johnx | or a class 6 card used in some machine not capable of utilizing its speed | 04:14 |
| l7 | or maybe they just hope nobody notices | 04:15 |
| l7 | well i did testing on a machine that could get decent speeds out of other cards | 04:15 |
| johnx | or in some situation that prevents that maximum speed from being reached | 04:15 |
| l7 | on two different card readers, no fragmentation | 04:15 |
| johnx | well, then it sounds like a class 2 sold as a class 6 | 04:16 |
| l7 | it still could be a card reader incompatibility that worked with all my other cards though, in theory | 04:16 |
| l7 | the n800's internal IO seems a bit slow anyway | 04:16 |
| l7 | but i want a decent card if i decent to put it to other uses later | 04:17 |
| johnx | it's quite fast compared to other ARM based linux machines I've used | 04:17 |
| l7 | scp seems to max out at around 700-800 KB/s anyway and sftp is even slower | 04:18 |
| zakkm | johnx: is deblet significantly faster than easy debian | 04:18 |
| johnx | i never used easy debian | 04:18 |
| l7 | what other ARM devices have you used? | 04:18 |
| zakkm | this is really slow | 04:18 |
| johnx | but if you're doing something that wants a lot of RAM, than probably yes | 04:18 |
| zakkm | lxde on it | 04:18 |
| zakkm | in school tomorrow i just want to be like | 04:19 |
| l7 | actually i mentioned write speeds, haven't measured read speed yet | 04:19 |
| zakkm | look, i got a laptop :) | 04:19 |
| zakkm | cause it will have a taskbar and all | 04:19 |
| johnx | l7, zaurus 5500, zaurus c1000 | 04:19 |
| johnx | so a strongARM and a PXA270 vs OMAP2420 | 04:19 |
| z4chh | i can't seem to find the man pages | 04:20 |
| soap | I _think_ the class ratings are on worst case / random writes at that. | 04:20 |
| johnx | they're not included. try man foo in google | 04:20 |
| z4chh | no man included? o_O | 04:20 |
| z4chh | what kind of linux is this >.< | 04:21 |
| johnx | the kind that fits in 128MB of flash | 04:21 |
| johnx | welcome to the realities of embedded software | 04:21 |
| z4chh | true ;p | 04:21 |
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| dmsuperman | does the N810 have a fullsize SD slot, or minisd? | 04:22 |
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| johnx | mini | 04:22 |
| z4chh | dmsuperman, 1 mini sd | 04:22 |
| z4chh | n800 has two full size sd | 04:22 |
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| dmsuperman | I know the N800 does | 04:23 |
| dmsuperman | I have an N800, my friend is debating an Archos, or an N800 or an N810 | 04:23 |
| soap | I should say "non sequential" not "random", or is SD just THAT much slower than CF? | 04:23 |
| l7 | soap: wikipedia says that class ratings are based on the best fragmented state | 04:23 |
| l7 | ie an empty card | 04:23 |
| dmsuperman | Any ideas when the next of the NXXX line is coming out? | 04:23 |
| soap | because 6MB/s is only 40x | 04:23 |
| johnx | summer 09 | 04:23 |
| z4chh | dmsuperman, no official word yet | 04:23 |
| soap | very slow by CF standards. | 04:24 |
| l7 | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital_card#SD_Speed_Class_Rating | 04:24 |
| soap | which says speed class is minimum | 04:24 |
| dmsuperman | :( | 04:24 |
| z4chh | johnx, is that official? o_O | 04:25 |
| johnx | no, of course not | 04:25 |
| z4chh | then why say summer 09? | 04:25 |
| johnx | because that's when Nokia has roadmapped maemo 5 final for | 04:25 |
| l7 | soap: my point is that it's based on the best case scenario | 04:26 |
| johnx | I guess "not before summer '09" is better | 04:26 |
| l7 | if you trust wikipedia anyway | 04:26 |
| l7 | SD speed ratings are a confusing quagmire anyway | 04:26 |
| z4chh | dmsuperman, i wouldn't buy the n810 anyways...not unless it drops like $150 >.> | 04:27 |
| dmsuperman | I agree | 04:27 |
| dmsuperman | I had a choice, I went with the N800 | 04:27 |
| dmsuperman | I'm glad for it | 04:27 |
| * zakkm paid $145 CANADIAN for his n800 | 04:27 | |
| dmsuperman | Only thing I wish it had was a keyboard | 04:27 |
| l7 | it makes it really difficult to compare performance since the better cards can perform writes at 8-12MB per second | 04:27 |
| z4chh | dmsuperman, igo stoaway bt kbd | 04:27 |
| l7 | but nobody knows which cards though are | 04:27 |
| l7 | s/though/those | 04:28 |
| dmsuperman | I have it, it's very laggy and cheap though | 04:28 |
| zakkm | hey would any bluetooth keyboard work? | 04:28 |
| zakkm | would be handy to me for school | 04:28 |
| l7 | most should | 04:28 |
| l7 | are other keyboards like the apple keyboard less laggy? | 04:28 |
| dmsuperman | I use it at work and school to take notes | 04:28 |
| dmsuperman | But it's just piss-poor compared to a more integrated one | 04:29 |
| zakkm | dmsuperman: highschool or college/uni? | 04:29 |
| dmsuperman | zakkm: University | 04:29 |
| l7 | the igo has little to no lag on my phone, but maybe it has better drivers | 04:29 |
| z4chh | i take notes on mine in highschool...it is good enough >.< | 04:29 |
| dmsuperman | It's terrible on my n800 | 04:29 |
| l7 | a netbook seems like a better notetaking device anyway | 04:29 |
| dmsuperman | It takes a good while, and you can't ever hit the enter key while typing | 04:29 |
| l7 | dmsuperman: same here | 04:29 |
| dmsuperman | You have to finish typing, wait a moment, then hit enter | 04:30 |
| * zakkm cant afford a netbook | 04:30 | |
| johnx | to reduce lag: turn off the text prediction bar | 04:30 |
| dmsuperman | And it crashes hildon a lot when I connect/disconnect it | 04:30 |
| l7 | yeah, i hit the up key instead of enter fairly often too | 04:30 |
| dmsuperman | johnx: It's off | 04:30 |
| l7 | yup, same here it's off | 04:30 |
| johnx | and don't type into the web browser :) | 04:30 |
| l7 | er why not? | 04:30 |
| dmsuperman | I hit up instead of ? a lot and repeat myself a lot | 04:30 |
| johnx | tends to be slow | 04:30 |
| dmsuperman | And sometimes it repeats characters a lot | 04:30 |
| l7 | Yeah, the repeat rate on it is a nuisance | 04:31 |
| l7 | i'm tempted to try out the apple bt keyboard, but i've heard it's also buggy | 04:31 |
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| johnx | also, consider enabling "performance" mode for the CPU | 04:31 |
| z4chh | what do you guys expect from bluetooth? o_O | 04:31 |
| l7 | maybe the nokia keyboard works better | 04:31 |
| z4chh | l7 i doubt it | 04:31 |
| l7 | it works fine on my smartphone? | 04:32 |
| z4chh | ive heard even usb keyboards are just as slow actually | 04:32 |
| l7 | z4chh: doubt what? | 04:32 |
| z4chh | the nokia keyboard is better | 04:32 |
| l7 | oh | 04:32 |
| zakkm | johnx: on synaptic theres a package that says .. " this package provides hildon input method application binary" | 04:32 |
| dmsuperman | z4chh: I dunno, a $50 keyboard that works with 1/5 or worse the performance of my desktop $15 keyboard is pretty disappointing though | 04:33 |
| l7 | hard to say without having used it | 04:33 |
| zakkm | wouldnt that add proper text to debian? | 04:33 |
| l7 | the bt keyboard works fine on my laptop too | 04:33 |
| l7 | it's a maemo problem of some sort i'm sure | 04:33 |
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| johnx | zakkm, "proper text"? | 04:34 |
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| zakkm | uhh | 04:34 |
| zakkm | hildon typing | 04:34 |
| johnx | you mean the half-screen keyboard or the fullscreen one? | 04:34 |
| zakkm | rather than using on screen keyboard | 04:34 |
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| johnx | debian *has* hardware keyboard support... | 04:34 |
| johnx | it's had it for 11 months | 04:34 |
| johnx | if it's not working for you, make sure you have HAL installed | 04:35 |
| johnx | then test your keyboard in the console to make sure it's actually being picked up by USB | 04:35 |
| johnx | did you enable host mode? | 04:35 |
| zakkm | i have the n800 | 04:36 |
| johnx | me too | 04:36 |
| l7 | what's HAL? | 04:36 |
| zakkm | hal = hardware detection | 04:36 |
| johnx | Hardware Abstraction Layer | 04:36 |
| dmsuperman | The thing that kills Dave | 04:36 |
| l7 | heh | 04:36 |
| johnx | or that machine from space odyssey | 04:36 |
| dmsuperman | :P | 04:36 |
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| johnx | beat me to it | 04:36 |
| l7 | yeah, hard to resist that joke | 04:37 |
| dmsuperman | I'm sorry dave, I can't do that | 04:37 |
| dmsuperman | :P | 04:37 |
| johnx | zakkm, what is it exactly that you want? the maemo onscreen keyboard or hardware keyboard support? | 04:37 |
| zakkm | maemo onscreen keyboard | 04:37 |
| zakkm | in easy debian | 04:37 |
| johnx | ah, well thats totally different | 04:38 |
| l7 | I'm sorry Dave, I can't give you keyboard support. | 04:38 |
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| l7 | otherwise you might try to sudo reboot me | 04:38 |
| z4chh | i really don't have a problem with my igo..it doesn't repeat characters..doesn't crash my hildon...it is a bit laggy..but certainly manageable | 04:39 |
| dmsuperman | I type "tacos" and sometimes I get "taccccccccccccos" | 04:39 |
| l7 | iiiiiit doesn't repeat characters?? | 04:40 |
| z4chh | i do most of my typing in terminal though | 04:40 |
| l7 | i suppose if you type with a light keypress it doesn't happen often | 04:40 |
| z4chh | o.o | 04:40 |
| johnx | dmsuperman, automatic spelling fixerer :) | 04:40 |
| l7 | can the keyboard repeat rate be adjusted? | 04:40 |
| johnx | man I could go for some taccccccccccccos | 04:40 |
| l7 | yeah i really like tacccccccccccooss too | 04:41 |
| dmsuperman | z4chh: As do I | 04:41 |
| dmsuperman | z4chh: With my iGo | 04:41 |
| z4chh | how do you pronounce taccccccccccccos hehe ;p | 04:41 |
| l7 | but sudo make me a tacccccccooooooo fails for some reason | 04:41 |
| dmsuperman | z4chh: I just reattach screen from home to my n800 | 04:41 |
| l7 | like goaaaaaaaaaaalllllllllllll | 04:41 |
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| soap | this is really stupid - but how do i get to my home folder in the file manager? | 04:42 |
| Mousey | rm -rf / | 04:42 |
| l7 | screen is great though | 04:42 |
| Mousey | wait' no | 04:42 |
| z4chh | l7, yeah but if you try to say it..you go taaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaacoooooooooooooooooooooooooo | 04:42 |
| z4chh | :P | 04:42 |
| l7 | soap: maybe a symlink? | 04:42 |
| Mousey | soap, the file manager makes me sad | 04:42 |
| l7 | heh | 04:43 |
| soap | so you're saying I can't? | 04:43 |
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| Mousey | the file manager makes me cry into my pillow | 04:43 |
| zakkm | any way to boot and just appear with tty ? | 04:43 |
| zakkm | like no X or kdrive started automaticly | 04:43 |
| l7 | lol | 04:44 |
| l7 | Mousey: there's always MC | 04:44 |
| Mousey | that's funny | 04:44 |
| z4chh | Mousey, you need to show that file manager who is boss >:) | 04:44 |
| johnx | are you sure you want your home dir? maybe what you really want is ~/MyDocs . In that case Nokia is way ahead of you :) | 04:44 |
| soap | don't make me strangle you | 04:44 |
| johnx | :D | 04:44 |
| johnx | I can see what they were trying to do, and I somewhat agree with hiding the rest of the FS, but I think they should have locked users into $HOME not $HOME/MyDocs | 04:45 |
| johnx | also a switch for "show me the rest of the FS, I accept the risk" would be nice | 04:45 |
| z4chh | Mousey, rm -rf didn't work :( | 04:45 |
| z4chh | rm -rf /* | 04:46 |
| l7 | if you really want do "ln -s /home/user /home/user/MyDocs/Home" | 04:46 |
| zakkm | wow | 04:47 |
| zakkm | Iceweasel is really cool on nokia ;p | 04:47 |
| l7 | is it fast? | 04:47 |
| l7 | it's just firefox 2 iirc | 04:47 |
| zakkm | same as microb i would say | 04:47 |
| zakkm | speed wise | 04:47 |
| zakkm | but its nice seeing a full browser | 04:47 |
| johnx | I assume you're using the ff3 version of iceweasel | 04:47 |
| zakkm | yes | 04:48 |
| zakkm | it matches my gtk icons, so i believe so | 04:48 |
| johnx | well it runs on ARM so it's ff3 :) | 04:48 |
| l7 | it uses gtk widgets? that is nice | 04:48 |
| dmsuperman | mv cp cd rm ln ls = best file manager ever | 04:48 |
| l7 | mmv is nice too | 04:48 |
| zakkm | when do you ever use ln in a real file manager? :P | 04:48 |
| l7 | i use ln all the time | 04:49 |
| zakkm | on terminal | 04:49 |
| zakkm | but on a real file manager? | 04:49 |
| l7 | what do you mean? | 04:49 |
| zakkm | it just always seemed pointless to me | 04:49 |
| zakkm | except for a little dev stuff | 04:49 |
| dmsuperman | zakkm: All the time | 04:49 |
| l7 | it's handy in making the actual home directory more terminal centric | 04:50 |
| dmsuperman | zakkm: symlinks and hardlinks own face | 04:50 |
| l7 | ie by linking .sounds to ~/sounds | 04:50 |
| z4chh | i dont use ln really o.o ...i do a lot of tabbing :) | 04:50 |
| dmsuperman | I link my themes folders from ~ to /root too | 04:51 |
| l7 | s/.sounds/~MyDocs/.sounds/ | 04:51 |
| dmsuperman | I use symlinks whenever possible | 04:51 |
| dmsuperman | That way I can move files around without having to affect anything at all | 04:51 |
| l7 | how does tabbing replace symlinks? | 04:51 |
| johnx | I tend to move big files between my 3 storage drives on my desktop and keep symlinks with their old locations | 04:51 |
| dmsuperman | l7: It's better not to ask questions | 04:52 |
| l7 | heh | 04:52 |
| dmsuperman | johnx: I don't move them, but I do that | 04:52 |
| dmsuperman | johnx: I keep my VM on another drive and symlink ~/.VirtualBox to it | 04:52 |
| l7 | johnx: which 3 big drives do you have setup? | 04:52 |
| l7 | on a real desktop machine rather than maemo? | 04:53 |
| * dmsuperman has almost 1.5TB of storage | 04:53 | |
| dmsuperman | I have a data addiction | 04:53 |
| l7 | yeah same here | 04:53 |
| dmsuperman | Hard drive space is cheap | 04:53 |
| johnx | well, for example, my music used to live on an internal 200GB drive, then I got a 500GB USB drive and moved the music, symlinked it back to the internal and my music playing apps didn't need to re-import it | 04:53 |
| l7 | iiiiii need a better backup scheme for it | 04:53 |
| dmsuperman | Having many backups and never having to delete anything rocks | 04:53 |
| dmsuperman | l7: rsync + hardlinks = best backup solution ever | 04:54 |
| dmsuperman | l7: I wrote a script to do it, want it? | 04:54 |
| l7 | dmsuperman: sure, that would be cool | 04:54 |
| l7 | i've been playing around with simplebackup, but it's not capable of hardlinking | 04:55 |
| l7 | which means restoring incremental backups requires you restore every incremental since your last full backup if you want a complete restore | 04:55 |
| dmsuperman | l7: http://dmsuperman.pastebin.com/f5524b35 | 04:55 |
| dmsuperman | l7: Mine is meant to backup my "/" but you can adapt it | 04:56 |
| l7 | yeah, i guess i would add /etc to it | 04:56 |
| dmsuperman | No mine does /etc | 04:56 |
| l7 | ah cool | 04:56 |
| dmsuperman | It does a full backup of an ubuntu install, and very likely all other distros | 04:57 |
| dmsuperman | It doesn't copy /proc and similar virtual mountpoints and the like | 04:57 |
| dmsuperman | But it creates the mountpoints for them at the bottom | 04:57 |
| l7 | i guess i should print it out and study it a bit later | 04:58 |
| l7 | since i'm just learning bash scripting | 04:58 |
| dmsuperman | I could explain it if you like | 04:59 |
| dmsuperman | I'm pretty proud of it myself, was my first real bash script | 04:59 |
| l7 | hmm, what is the short explanation of how it works? | 05:00 |
| dmsuperman | First it defines some variables to be used for later | 05:01 |
| dmsuperman | Line 10 searches the backup directory for the newest one (simply by ordering the directory names, I named them by date in such a way that they return in chronological order) | 05:01 |
| l7 | ah, i like how it creaaaaates a date based directory for the destination | 05:02 |
| dmsuperman | Line 16 defines the folders to exclude from the backup, mostly just stuff that you wouldn't want to back up /proc and /sys and hte like | 05:02 |
| zakkm | do you all leave many apps running on nokia, even if your not particularly using it for like 30min or so? | 05:03 |
| zakkm | or do you open apps and close them as you use them | 05:03 |
| dmsuperman | Then the if statement checks if there is already a backup, if not it creates a backup | 05:03 |
| dmsuperman | If one already exists, it hardlinks the entire thing into the new backup dir | 05:03 |
| dmsuperman | And in both cases it uses rsync to copy all modified files from the current / to the backup one | 05:03 |
| dmsuperman | Then the bottom just creates the mountpoints so when you restore the backup it'll boot | 05:04 |
| l7 | oh, neat it's bootable | 05:06 |
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| l7 | line 10 has me confused slightly | 05:07 |
| dmsuperman | That's the one that finds the newest backup | 05:08 |
| dmsuperman | It lists all of the directories in the backup directory, in reverse order, and returns the last one | 05:09 |
| dmsuperman | Since they're written like YYYY.MM.DD.HH.MM.SS they'll return newest last | 05:09 |
| l7 | oh, so this is what allows the incremental backup to work properly | 05:10 |
| dmsuperman | Right | 05:10 |
| dmsuperman | To avoid having to store them in a database or anything | 05:10 |
| dmsuperman | I just use the directory name as the backup date so I can easily determine the newest | 05:10 |
| l7 | doesn't this nest every new backup inside the last one? | 05:11 |
| dmsuperman | No | 05:11 |
| dmsuperman | dmsuperman@blitzkrieg:/backups/incremental$ ls | 05:12 |
| dmsuperman | 2008.11.04.02.30 2008.11.11.02.30 2008.11.18.02.30 2008.11.25.02.30 | 05:12 |
| l7 | oh right $DESTDIR is always constant | 05:12 |
| dmsuperman | Right | 05:12 |
| l7 | my battery level must be low | 05:13 |
| l7 | does rsync copy any symlinks over exactly? | 05:14 |
| dmsuperman | I forget what each argument means, but with the arugments I pass it copies them as symlinks | 05:15 |
| l7 | ah cool | 05:15 |
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| l7 | last time i messed around with rsync i ran into some problems with symlinks and used tar instead | 05:15 |
| dmsuperman | Yeah it's all about telling it the right arguments | 05:16 |
| dmsuperman | -v is verbose backup, --delete deletes files from the backup that no longer exist in the source dir | 05:16 |
| l7 | one thing i like about using tar is that it creates one big file which copies between filesystems much quicker | 05:17 |
| dmsuperman | That is good | 05:17 |
| soap | where do I set persistent aliases in the N810's shell? .bash_aliases? | 05:17 |
| dmsuperman | With rsync you can use sshfs though | 05:17 |
| l7 | maybe it would be possible to put each of these backups inside a gzipped tar file | 05:18 |
| dmsuperman | You could do that, add it to the script | 05:18 |
| dmsuperman | So after it rsyncs, you could maybe tar it up | 05:18 |
| l7 | yeah, i guess it could be done by storing it /backups/incremental/, then tar it | 05:19 |
| dmsuperman | The whole reason I like mine though is by using hardlinks it makes it incremental and barely any more storage used | 05:19 |
| dmsuperman | I have 4 backups of my 7GB /, totalling 10GB | 05:19 |
| l7 | do you put it into a cron job to run regularly? | 05:20 |
| dmsuperman | Yeah, I run it once a week | 05:20 |
| dmsuperman | I have a very similar one for my ~ | 05:20 |
| l7 | i've been trying to figure out the easier way to avoid backing up my huge media files | 05:20 |
| dmsuperman | Then I have another one that runs once a month to delete all backups older than 2 months | 05:20 |
| l7 | moving media files out of the home dir seems like one way to go | 05:21 |
| dmsuperman | Yeah my ~ only has configuration | 05:21 |
| dmsuperman | ~/Music and the like are symlinked to /media/Media which is a hard drive just for media | 05:21 |
| infobot | okay, dmsuperman | 05:21 |
| l7 | heh | 05:21 |
| dmsuperman | ? | 05:21 |
| johnx | ~/Music | 05:22 |
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| dmsuperman | Oh haha | 05:22 |
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| johnx | but I don't know what infobot is thinking of it internally | 05:22 |
| l7 | er infobot records any "~$foo is" statements into it's memory | 05:22 |
| johnx | I didn't know it would pick up a foo and bar are though | 05:23 |
| l7 | how to you tell infobot to forget things? | 05:23 |
| l7 | s/to/do/ | 05:23 |
| infobot | l7 meant: how do you tell infobot to forget things? | 05:23 |
| johnx | well, first you figure out what it thinks is the name, then tell it forget foo | 05:23 |
| johnx | ~/Music and the like | 05:23 |
| infobot | /music and the like are symlinked to /media/Media which is a hard drive just for media | 05:23 |
| l7 | infobot: forget ~/Music | 05:24 |
| infobot | i didn't have anything called '~/music' to forget, l7 | 05:24 |
| l7 | infobot: forget /Music | 05:24 |
| infobot | l7: i didn't have anything called '/music' to forget | 05:24 |
| johnx | give it the whole line | 05:24 |
| johnx | er | 05:24 |
| johnx | infobot, forget ~/Music and the like | 05:24 |
| infobot | i didn't have anything called '~/music and the like' to forget, johnx | 05:24 |
| dmsuperman | Hahahha | 05:24 |
| johnx | infobot, forget /Music and the like | 05:24 |
| infobot | johnx: i forgot /music and the like | 05:24 |
| l7 | heh | 05:24 |
| johnx | infobot, go cry in a corner | 05:25 |
| dmsuperman | Anybody know the easiest way, in a bash script, to determine 2 months ago? Like, I want September 2008. | 05:25 |
| dmsuperman | For today | 05:25 |
| l7 | infobot: forget remove-osso-toolbar and the like | 05:25 |
| infobot | l7: i didn't have anything called 'remove-osso-toolbar and the like' to forget | 05:25 |
| l7 | infobot: forget remove-osso-scrollbar and the like | 05:25 |
| infobot | l7: i didn't have anything called 'remove-osso-scrollbar and the like' to forget | 05:25 |
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| johnx | it was "/Music and the like" because it picks up everything before the is/are | 05:25 |
| johnx | forget remove-osso-scrollbar | 05:26 |
| johnx | infobot, forget remove-osso-scrollbar | 05:26 |
| infobot | johnx: i forgot remove-osso-scrollbar | 05:26 |
| johnx | of course, every time I correct someone I must also make a mistake. that's how the universe balances :) | 05:26 |
| l7 | heh | 05:26 |
| l7 | dmsuperman: maybe there's a date command for it, but i need to learn more unix to know it | 05:27 |
| johnx | why not just keep x backups | 05:27 |
| dmsuperman | I know how to do date, but I'm not sure how to do like -2 months | 05:27 |
| dmsuperman | johnx: Just in case I make an extra backup for whatever reason | 05:27 |
| l7 | you could try touching a file to creat a file, then using touch to subtract two months from that file | 05:27 |
| l7 | then get the date from that file | 05:28 |
| l7 | rather convoluted though | 05:28 |
| johnx | you could number them in seconds since the epoch. that would make the math better | 05:28 |
| dmsuperman | I'm doing that | 05:28 |
| dmsuperman | But I'm not sure how to subtract 2 months from today in seconds | 05:28 |
| dmsuperman | -60 days doesn't always work | 05:28 |
| dmsuperman | Because months aren't all 30 days | 05:29 |
| johnx | well, you only want to delete things that are *older* than two months, right? so just make it the worst case: 62 days | 05:29 |
| l7 | yeah, our calender system is terribly imprecise there | 05:29 |
| johnx | much easier to do it by weeks | 05:30 |
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| l7 | hmm, good point | 05:30 |
| dmsuperman | Well basically | 05:30 |
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| dmsuperman | I want to determine 2 months ago, then I can do rm 2008.09.* | 05:30 |
| dmsuperman | I dunno, I'm just trying to create a script to delete everything from >= 2 months ago | 05:31 |
| dmsuperman | I have one but for instance I ran it today and it deleted 2008.10.* | 05:31 |
| dmsuperman | So it's wrong. | 05:32 |
| johnx | you know about cut, right? | 05:32 |
| dmsuperman | :O | 05:32 |
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| dmsuperman | Oh, no that's not what I want | 05:32 |
| dmsuperman | How is that helpful? | 05:32 |
| johnx | thinking, hang on | 05:33 |
| johnx | this is an interesting problem :) | 05:33 |
| dmsuperman | :) | 05:33 |
| johnx | so once it's december, get rid of anything from september? | 05:33 |
| l7 | that's a laudable attitude | 05:34 |
| l7 | i would just find it aggravating usually | 05:34 |
| dmsuperman | johnx: Yeah | 05:34 |
| l7 | on december 1st i assume | 05:34 |
| dmsuperman | I'll run it on the 1st of each month | 05:34 |
| dmsuperman | And delete everything that's not from the previous month or the one before it | 05:34 |
| dmsuperman | I don't want to trust the modification time, I just have a bad feeling about that | 05:34 |
| dmsuperman | If I ever moved or copied it and forgot to preserve times or something | 05:35 |
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| johnx | so really on the last day of november it should delete september? | 05:35 |
| dmsuperman | Sure, or the first of december | 05:36 |
| johnx | errr | 05:36 |
| johnx | that makes things difficult | 05:36 |
| dmsuperman | Why? | 05:36 |
| dmsuperman | I'd actually prefer anything September and older, that way it catches old stuff in case the cycle script doesn't run on time | 05:36 |
| l7 | there's a linux program called "time" something that uses this system too iirc | 05:36 |
| dmsuperman | But if not Just deleting september is fine | 05:37 |
| l7 | hardlinking that is | 05:37 |
| l7 | and of course apple's time machine | 05:37 |
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| johnx | dmsuperman, http://pastebin.ca/1271936 | 05:59 |
| johnx | I'm sure there's a better way to do this, but this made the most sense to me | 05:59 |
| johnx | maybe some clever use of find or somesuch | 05:59 |
| johnx | is that more or less what you want? | 06:01 |
| dmsuperman | johnx: I actually just finished writing my own | 06:04 |
| johnx | ah | 06:04 |
| dmsuperman | johnx: PHP has a string math function | 06:04 |
| dmsuperman | johnx: So I wrote a little thing that takes the strings and prints dates | 06:05 |
| dmsuperman | dmsuperman@blitzkrieg:~$ php-date 'Y.m' '-2 months' | 06:05 |
| dmsuperman | 2008.09 | 06:05 |
| johnx | seems fine | 06:05 |
| johnx | it's your script after all | 06:05 |
| johnx | I tend to stick with things available on all Unix systems (or at least GNU systems) when I script, but if you know you'll have php you might as well use it | 06:06 |
| dmsuperman | Right | 06:06 |
| dmsuperman | I would generally agree | 06:06 |
| dmsuperman | But this is a very specific script anyway | 06:06 |
| dmsuperman | Just to help me manage my stuff :P | 06:06 |
| johnx | exactly :) | 06:06 |
| johnx | and I just wanted to make sure my sh wasn't getting rusty | 06:07 |
| dmsuperman | Heh | 06:07 |
| johnx | and to make sure I was right about cut | 06:07 |
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| aquatix | morning all | 10:32 |
| StsN800 | morn | 10:32 |
| johnx | mornin' | 10:33 |
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| * StsN800 ponders setting up a betting pool on when alpha sdk comes out | 10:41 | |
| johnx | if so, be sure to add that to the offical Mer roadmap | 10:42 |
| johnx | ex: "Step 2: Funding will be accumulated through a betting pool" :) | 10:42 |
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| StsN800 | hehe | 10:43 |
| StsN800 | shouldn't be long though | 10:44 |
| StsN800 | and im curious what effect it will have on svn | 10:45 |
| StsN800 | and how much come out | 10:45 |
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| lardman | morning | 11:26 |
| Meiz_n810 | hi | 11:27 |
| johnx | hallo | 11:27 |
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| Stskeeps | lo | 11:28 |
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| timely | hi | 11:34 |
| timely | did anyone try my sketch hack package? | 11:34 |
| aquatix | timely: did you repackage it? | 11:35 |
| timely | no | 11:35 |
| aquatix | it depended on perl before, not perl-base | 11:36 |
| aquatix | ah | 11:36 |
| aquatix | well | 11:36 |
| timely | oh | 11:36 |
| timely | perl-base? | 11:36 |
| timely | yeah, i thought i refixed that | 11:36 |
| timely | lemme check | 11:36 |
| aquatix | if you want, please let it depend on perl-base :) | 11:36 |
| aquatix | maybe you already did | 11:36 |
| aquatix | i only tried your very first version i think | 11:36 |
| timely | the source claims to depend on perl-base | 11:36 |
| timely | can you try it? | 11:36 |
| timely | sorry, i never version my packages :) | 11:37 |
| aquatix | sure, url? | 11:37 |
| aquatix | same? | 11:37 |
| timely | yep | 11:37 |
| aquatix | hm | 11:38 |
| aquatix | the mime type in /usr/bin/osso_sketch.launch did not match the expected results | 11:39 |
| aquatix | post-removal script returned error exit status 1 | 11:39 |
| timely | oh, you're in trouble :) | 11:39 |
| aquatix | oh? | 11:39 |
| timely | does sketch still run atm? | 11:40 |
| aquatix | yes | 11:40 |
| timely | you can view application manager log i suppose | 11:40 |
| timely | it should explain what it didn't like | 11:40 |
| aquatix | this was with dpkg -i | 11:40 |
| timely | oh, did it not say what it didn't like? | 11:40 |
| aquatix | hm, no | 11:41 |
| timely | anyway, you should be able to delete /var/lib/dpkg/info/sketch-png* iirc | 11:41 |
| aquatix | only that it did not match the expected results | 11:41 |
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| timely | but that may or may not help matters | 11:41 |
| aquatix | well, it also gave the error with the post-removal script of the new package | 11:41 |
| timely | yeah, the script hasn't changed :) | 11:42 |
| aquatix | sec | 11:42 |
| timely | the code basically asserts that removing it should undo a change | 11:42 |
| timely | it doesn't understand what to do if the change isn't present | 11:42 |
| timely | that's too complicated for my tiny little mind | 11:42 |
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| aquatix | meh | 11:43 |
| aquatix | can't remove it either | 11:43 |
| aquatix | `package is in a very bad inconsistent state, needs reinstall' | 11:44 |
| timely | yeah | 11:44 |
| timely | do the rm i suggested | 11:44 |
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| aquatix | sec | 11:45 |
| aquatix | huh | 11:46 |
| aquatix | now it installs :) | 11:46 |
| RST38h | moo, all | 11:46 |
| aquatix | weird shit | 11:46 |
| aquatix | moo RST38h | 11:46 |
| aquatix | hm | 11:46 |
| aquatix | timely: i now see png's in the open dialog | 11:47 |
| aquatix | but if i try to open one, it says file not found | 11:47 |
| timely | yeah | 11:47 |
| timely | you need to rename the file to foo.sketch | 11:47 |
| timely | then it'll open | 11:47 |
| timely | i don't think i can fix that w/o serious hackery | 11:47 |
| timely | i haven't quite tried, perhaps it's possible | 11:47 |
| timely | the code is very evil/broken | 11:47 |
| timely | basically it for some reason decides to append .sketch.png to some "file name" | 11:48 |
| timely | (a file name isn't something on the file system, it's its own strange concept) | 11:48 |
| timely | i'm trying to do my hacks w/o reading the source. i.e. i could have written the hack you have w/o seeing the source | 11:48 |
| timely | the .sketch.png info comes from running sketch from a terminal | 11:49 |
| aquatix | ah | 11:49 |
| timely | (or using strace) | 11:49 |
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| timely | anyway, if you want to try grepping for '.sketch.png' | 11:51 |
| timely | you could see how often it turns up in the file | 11:52 |
| timely | (if you do plan to do binary hacks, i highly recommend you make a copy of the binary first :) | 11:52 |
| timely | assuming it only turns up once, you could replace it w/ .png\0sketch | 11:52 |
| hellwolf | how to support flac file in youamp | 11:54 |
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| dneary | Hi all | 14:05 |
| dneary | I just made my first arm .deb :) | 14:06 |
| dneary | Very proud of myself | 14:06 |
| florian | hi dneary | 14:06 |
| timely | dneary: what's it do? | 14:07 |
| * timely only makes evil debs | 14:07 | |
| timely | hrm | 14:07 |
| dneary | It's only maemopad | 14:08 |
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| murrayc | dneary: It's surprisingly simple when you know the incancations, isn't it. | 14:13 |
| timely | murrayc: dpkg-deb -b foopy | 14:14 |
| timely | simple, but useless | 14:14 |
| timely | the rest of the incantations are cp -r foopy barpy | 14:14 |
| timely | perl -pi -e 's/foopy/barpy/g' barpy/DEBIAN/* | 14:15 |
| * timely doesn't think the incantations have any value | 14:15 | |
| murrayc | I think I use other incantations. | 14:15 |
| timely | i'm sure you do | 14:15 |
| * lardman wonders if dneary is looking for a new job... ;) | 14:15 | |
| murrayc | And a chicken. | 14:15 |
| timely | very few people (and fewer still in their right mind) would use dpkg-deb | 14:16 |
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| dneary | murrayc: Or when you're following the tutorial | 14:16 |
| dneary | "a maze of dpkg commands, all the same" | 14:16 |
| dneary | Plus, following the tutorial, there was a step missing (or maybe not?) | 14:17 |
| dneary | I did an apt-get source maemopad | 14:17 |
| murrayc | There are various tutorials of varying quality, each recommending various ways. I've been lucky to have some helpful experts to lead me. | 14:17 |
| timely | dneary: missing steps from a maemo.org item? | 14:17 |
| timely | impossible! | 14:17 |
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| dneary | followed by a dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -d -b | 14:18 |
| murrayc | That's the moment of truth. | 14:18 |
| dneary | Which failed for lack of an intltool-update.in (which is generated by intltoolize) | 14:18 |
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| dneary | So I ran autogen.sh which went through fine, and reran the buildpkg, all was well | 14:19 |
| dneary | but I was lucky I knew how :) | 14:19 |
| murrayc | autogen.sh really shouldn't be necessary. | 14:19 |
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| murrayc | The package might have a dist or clean problem. | 14:20 |
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| dneary | I'm still working things out in my head - and the training plan will end up being roughly the contents of the Wiley book proposal, if that ever comes to pass | 14:31 |
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| timely | wiley? | 14:35 |
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| rjelari | where can i get the sample source code for task navigator plug-in ? | 14:47 |
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| timely | isn't there a Gnu thinger? | 14:48 |
| johnx | rjelari, the code for the main menu should be open and so is personal menu | 14:49 |
| johnx | or are you referring to the "open program" list? | 14:49 |
| timely | johnx; the main menu is open source? | 14:49 |
| johnx | well, it's in debian's hildon-desktop... | 14:50 |
| johnx | let me verify, have a copy right here :) | 14:50 |
| timely | http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/hello-world-app-2.1/ | 14:50 |
| timely | http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/hello-world-app-2.1/hello-world-tn.h | 14:51 |
| rjelari | johnx, I admit myself i am new to maemo!. i just want to execute a sample program for navigator plug-in ! | 14:51 |
| timely | rjelari: that should be what you want | 14:51 |
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| timely | it seems to ship as part of some diablo thing | 14:51 |
| timely | probably the sdk | 14:52 |
| rjelari | timely, let me check with that :). | 14:52 |
| timely | if you look at /source/ it should have a *sources*list file | 14:52 |
| timely | which you could use to get the same packages | 14:52 |
| * timely frowns | 14:53 | |
| * timely looks to see who actually includes that file .. | 14:54 | |
| * timely tries not to choke | 14:54 | |
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| rjelari | timely, is .tar.gz available for that? | 14:55 |
| rjelari | i mean which has all hello world source code. | 14:55 |
| timely | it came from a package | 14:55 |
| timely | copy the sources.list file and do apt-get source | 14:55 |
| timely | for hello-world | 14:55 |
| johnx | or: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.1/free/h/hello-world-app/ | 14:56 |
| johnx | keywords: hellow world dsc site:maemo.org | 14:56 |
| timely | ify ou browse to the root, the file is http://mxr.maemo.org/diablo/source/diablo.sources.list | 14:56 |
| johnx | s/hello/hellow of course | 14:56 |
| timely | johnx: cheater | 14:56 |
| timely | :) | 14:57 |
| johnx | just sharing the love | 14:57 |
| timely | johnx: anyway, mxr should be your friend :) | 14:57 |
| rjelari | timely, thank you very much. I got .tar.gz file! ;) | 14:57 |
| johnx | yeah, I should actually start abusing it more given the re-packaging efforts of mer :) | 14:57 |
| * timely needs to try to pull in whichever garage projects have updated in the past 6months | 14:58 | |
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| * ENTERANICK [W2I=000:u:0:000:] | 14:58 | |
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| camel_liu | hi, all | 14:58 |
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| * timely tries to remember how to update garage | 14:58 | |
| johnx | hi camel_liu | 14:59 |
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| camel_liu | hi, johnx | 14:59 |
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| camel_liu | I wrote a SDL app, but I met something wrong | 15:00 |
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| camel_liu | When I minimize the SDL app, Task Navigator shows it as unknown | 15:00 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: is application menu in h-d a plugin? | 15:01 |
| camel_liu | do you know why TN cannot display the app's title? johnx | 15:02 |
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| camel_liu | gtk app is shown normal, but SDL app's title cannot be shown | 15:03 |
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| johnx | Stskeeps, ah, maybe it isn't? | 15:05 |
| johnx | I didn't really consider that | 15:05 |
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| johnx | well, in that case personal menu is a good example | 15:06 |
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| * RST38h moos evilly | 15:33 | |
| johnx | m00f | 15:34 |
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| * aquatix maws a bit | 15:37 | |
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| johnx | so when I bzr push really minor changes to launchpad and it takes multiple minutes, is that a bzr thing or a launchpad thing? | 15:39 |
| camel_liu | Does anyone know why Application Switcher shows SDL app as ''unknown" or "unnamed"? | 15:44 |
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| oli | anyone got n800 camera flipping problem too? | 15:55 |
| johnx | lots of people. I haven't used it recently enough to even remember if I have it | 15:56 |
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| johnx | Stskeeps, you're right. launchpad does not make me feel warm and fuzzy | 15:59 |
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| GAN800 | Quim's CCing me on bugs now. <_< | 16:13 |
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| GAN800 | I don't CC since I track all changes anyway. :/ | 16:13 |
| X-Fade | GAN800: Heh ;) | 16:15 |
| X-Fade | Well, at least I seem to have fixed the wiki login problem today :D | 16:15 |
| GAN800 | Yeah, I see that | 16:16 |
| GAN800 | We may finally have a 100% functional wiki! :D | 16:16 |
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| `Mace | hi | 16:34 |
| johnx | hi `Mace | 16:34 |
| `Mace | sup johnx | 16:35 |
| johnx | not too much | 16:35 |
| `Mace | snow sucks | 16:35 |
| `Mace | :) | 16:35 |
| johnx | ah, for driving or shoveling reasons? | 16:35 |
| `Mace | i think i drove 15mph all the way home | 16:35 |
| `Mace | driving | 16:35 |
| johnx | I like it once or twice a year | 16:35 |
| johnx | it helps me bond with my otherwise slow and un-interesting vehicle :) | 16:36 |
| `Mace | haha | 16:36 |
| lardman | rather than you bonding your vehicle with others parked along the side of the road I take it?! ;) | 16:36 |
| `Mace | i gave sts the info for the box i made for mer | 16:36 |
| `Mace | he's on his own with it now ;) | 16:36 |
| johnx | sounds good | 16:37 |
| `Mace | although i'll need to set up apache on my webserver to redirect vhosts to the box | 16:37 |
| `Mace | shouldn't be that big of a deal to do tho | 16:37 |
| johnx | I'm brainstorming ideas for it, but right now we'll be in somewhat of a holding pattern until the fremantle sdk comes out | 16:37 |
| johnx | I suppose I should try and setup a qemu image I can upload to it that we could remote control | 16:38 |
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| johnx | do you mind if we use it for CPU intensive things? or were you thinking more lightweight web-hosting? | 16:39 |
| `Mace | naw.. that's fine | 16:40 |
| `Mace | it SHOULDN'T max out the box.. i gave you guys 4000MHz in esx for it | 16:40 |
| `Mace | i just need enough on that box for my zimbra VM to run.. and it really doesn't need THAT much | 16:41 |
| johnx | lardman, so far this car has not attempted to mate with any moving or stationary objects. :) I do enjoy laughing at cars and drivers not equipped to travel when it snows :D | 16:41 |
| `Mace | maybe later i'll give you guys a dedicated box for it if it works out well | 16:41 |
| `Mace | too bad i can't get more bandwidth from comcast :) i tried when i ordered the business line but i guess 2mbit was the best they can do | 16:42 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, is there a queue on the builder right now? | 16:42 |
| `Mace | i guess anything past that and you need something a little more .... commercial | 16:42 |
| `Mace | well.. knock yourselves out with it. let me know if you have any problems with it | 16:43 |
| `Mace | if you guys want a xxx@rancorous.net zimbra acct let me know too.. i still have a lot of modding to do to it but it at least runs pretty well. the rest is cosmetic | 16:44 |
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| `Mace | good luck with your project ;) ttyl | 16:45 |
| johnx | thanks again | 16:45 |
| `Mace | np.. just make sure it doesn't suck ;) | 16:45 |
| `Mace | haha | 16:45 |
| * johnx rubs his hands together at the thought of more clock cycles to use | 16:45 | |
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| `Mace | i'll do whatever i can do to help you guys out | 16:46 |
| `Mace | ok... ttyl | 16:46 |
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| lardman | ~lart firefox for not allowing me to type ' | 16:50 |
| * infobot tries to shut firefox up for not allowing me to type ' | 16:50 | |
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| johnx | it won't let you type an apostrophe? | 16:52 |
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| fiferboy | mikkov_: I see serialization in extras-devel! | 17:13 |
| fiferboy | Thank you so much for getting that to work, it is an immense help! | 17:14 |
| fiferboy | And for i386, too! Very, very nice. | 17:14 |
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| l7 | hey, links is an incredibly fast browser for maemo | 17:22 |
| l7 | links2 seems to render better though | 17:26 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: no queue | 17:27 |
| johnx | sounds good, I'll work on changing that soon | 17:27 |
| Stskeeps | k | 17:27 |
| johnx | I'm investigating what's needed to get maemo-launcher and hildon-desktop started without started as part of a session instead of from init | 17:27 |
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| Stskeeps | k | 17:31 |
| GAN800 | I think I'm gonna liberate my sister's N800 to use for testing. | 17:35 |
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| johnx | heh | 17:35 |
| johnx | I have liberated practically every device here capable of running linux to any extent | 17:36 |
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| * Stskeeps tries to think of any device he hasn't had linux going on | 17:37 | |
| GAN800 | It was in the principal's office for a while, and she got a new Sony phone. | 17:37 |
| johnx | as in she played on it in class, got it taken and got a shiny new phone for her trouble? | 17:38 |
| GAN800 | Hehe | 17:38 |
| GAN800 | Well, she bought the phone with her own money. | 17:38 |
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| GAN800 | and they were kinda making an example. | 17:38 |
| johnx | well, that's much more admirable then | 17:39 |
| Stskeeps | if i was in primary school, they would definately take my n800. | 17:39 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:39 |
| johnx | just one step down from the guy with gameboy color guts hacked into a ti-84 | 17:39 |
| johnx | I cut my teeth on programming on a Ti-83+ in math/science classes | 17:40 |
| GAN800 | The TI graphing calculators are fun | 17:41 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: think i'll untaint hildon thumbnail, new tag came out so | 17:41 |
| GAN800 | <3 my TI-89ti | 17:41 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, seems good | 17:41 |
| Veggen | johnx: I think actually my programming interest was started by programmable HP-calculators. HP 10C and later 15C. | 17:41 |
| johnx | is there a reason we shouldn't use ubuntu's hildon-icons package? | 17:41 |
| Stskeeps | mm, are they really hildon icons? i took debian's last time | 17:42 |
| GAN800 | There are fun things afoot these days. . . . | 17:42 |
| johnx | well, it's debian's package :) | 17:42 |
| johnx | hildon-icons_2.1.debian-2 | 17:43 |
| Stskeeps | well, only worry is that ubuntu one is UM-tained, but yeah | 17:43 |
| Stskeeps | i guess ubuntu's should be fine | 17:43 |
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| johnx | hmm, it depends gnome-icon-theme | 17:44 |
| johnx | but, yes, it is the pkg-maemo version | 17:45 |
| Stskeeps | that's fine | 17:45 |
| Stskeeps | gnome-icon-theme is needed anyway | 17:45 |
| Stskeeps | (it's hicolor) | 17:45 |
| johnx | well, that was painless then :) | 17:45 |
| johnx | now, to make maemo-launcher launch things... | 17:46 |
| Stskeeps | did you progress any with sapwood? | 17:46 |
| johnx | on zaurus? nah | 17:46 |
| Stskeeps | k | 17:46 |
| johnx | I'm putting it on hold though | 17:46 |
| Stskeeps | we'll figure it out eventually | 17:46 |
| johnx | it's sucked up too much time for a platform that might not ever be able to support fremantle level apps | 17:47 |
| johnx | I never did manage to get a noopt build of maemo gtk+ done though | 17:48 |
| Stskeeps | hehe, the interesting part is if we will be able to make a mmc version for 770 ;) | 17:48 |
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| Stskeeps | in-flash we might as well give up on straight away | 17:48 |
| johnx | maybe provide a rescue system in flash? | 17:48 |
| Stskeeps | possibly | 17:48 |
| Stskeeps | 128mb rescue menu, yay | 17:49 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:49 |
| johnx | it's proved wonderfully useful on my zaurus | 17:49 |
| johnx | but then again it has a keyboard :P | 17:49 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 17:49 |
| lopz | hola | 17:49 |
| GAN800 | lol | 17:50 |
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| GAN800 | 'rescue menu' can be OS2006. :P | 17:50 |
| johnx | hi lopz | 17:50 |
| lopz | heya johnx !! | 17:50 |
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| mikkov_ | fiferboy: serialization package for i386 is actually empty | 18:01 |
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| fiferboy | Ah | 18:03 |
| fiferboy | Tricky | 18:03 |
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| GAN800 | Weird, I'm pretty sure my Thanks count just dropped by 16. . . . | 18:18 |
| johnx | I thought mine went down too, but I wasn't sure | 18:18 |
| Stskeeps | GAN800: you get subtracted for the thanks on the post that badmouthed you | 18:18 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:18 |
| qwerty12 | The force is strong in the people who want fremantle on N8x0 | 18:18 |
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| Stskeeps | # Total Thanks: 96 | 18:18 |
| Stskeeps | # Thanked 162 Times in 78 Posts | 18:18 |
| Stskeeps | eh. | 18:18 |
| GAN800 | Stskeeps, hehe | 18:18 |
| Stskeeps | oh, nm | 18:18 |
| * qwerty12 couldn't personally give a shit about the bugs or fremantle | 18:19 | |
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| * Stskeeps wonders why the heck most people don't just recompile the debs in svn.. | 18:19 | |
| johnx | qwerty12, happy enough just to hack on whatever's out there? | 18:19 |
| GAN800 | qwerty12 is gonna run Android on an N-gage | 18:19 |
| Stskeeps | they do actually publish the fixes | 18:19 |
| qwerty12 | johnx, yep :) | 18:20 |
| qwerty12 | GAN800, Well, seeing as I smashed the screen on mine... :P | 18:20 |
| GAN800 | headless | 18:20 |
| qwerty12 | hehe | 18:20 |
| qwerty12 | If fremantle is available for N800, great. If not, I'm not going to go into cardiac arrest. | 18:21 |
| johnx | well that sounds strangely reasonable | 18:22 |
| johnx | heh, actually if you said that it would probably make a lot of people feel better given how many packages you release :) | 18:23 |
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| johnx | actually, if nokia does say "no official fremantle for n8x0" it will free up people to stop worrying about their osso-software-version... | 18:24 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, so, for the tained branches, they're safe to export, right? | 18:25 |
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| qwerty12 | hehe, I just edit the dependencies of osso-software-version when I need to remove something :P | 18:25 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: yeah, export, but you loose revision log and ability to merge new things | 18:25 |
| Stskeeps | it's better to just re-merge them | 18:25 |
| Stskeeps | as in, re-branch then | 18:26 |
| Stskeeps | and apply the diff | 18:26 |
| Stskeeps | me finding out late about branching schemes kinda fucked up things :) | 18:26 |
| johnx | so branch from maemo tags, apply diff, commit, push? | 18:26 |
| johnx | I have no idea what those even mean :) | 18:26 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: .. or asking me to clean it up :P | 18:28 |
| Stskeeps | and yes, that'd be the order | 18:28 |
| johnx | alright | 18:28 |
| Stskeeps | which one do you have in mind? | 18:29 |
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| johnx | I might as well try my noopt build of gtk again since my ARM machines are sitting idle, and if it works out, I'll push it | 18:29 |
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| Stskeeps | k | 18:30 |
| * Stskeeps is setting up an armel builder on macer's machine | 18:30 | |
| johnx | ah :) | 18:30 |
| johnx | sounds great | 18:30 |
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| johnx | I figured that would be most logical use for 4000MHz :) | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 18:32 |
| Stskeeps | getting sb2 going sanely wouldn't be bad either | 18:33 |
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| johnx | do you think it's possible? | 18:34 |
| suihkulokki | it should be possible | 18:35 |
| suihkulokki | as long as you don't try to use for things it's not meant for (system emulation, native compilation, ..) | 18:36 |
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| Stskeeps | apt-get considered system emulation? :P | 18:36 |
| * Stskeeps is trying to get his head around some of the errors postinsts come up with, so | 18:36 | |
| johnx | does building arbitrary debian packages seem reasonable at this point? | 18:36 |
| Stskeeps | (yes, i've /bin/true'd invoke-rc.d and start-stop-daemon) | 18:36 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: problems i usually run into is apt-get build-dep related | 18:37 |
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| suihkulokki | Stskeeps: are you using apt-get with sb2 -e ? | 18:37 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 18:37 |
| suihkulokki | hmm | 18:38 |
| Stskeeps | lemme drag out my sb2 rootstrap, sec | 18:38 |
| Stskeeps | this is btw with a ubuntu jaunty armel underneath as rootstrap | 18:38 |
| Stskeeps | but had similar issue with hasty | 18:39 |
| suihkulokki | it should certainly be possible - or made possible :) | 18:39 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, which is why i'm looking for people with more sb2 knowledge than me :P | 18:40 |
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| z4chh | hi | 18:41 |
| suihkulokki | Stskeeps: do you have a writeup how you created the rootstrap? | 18:42 |
| Stskeeps | rootstrap's a buildd debootstrap variant of jaunty armel, PATH=$HOME/mr-sdk/sb2/bin:$PATH $HOME/mr-sdk/sb2/bin/sb2-init -c $HOME/mr-sdk/sb2/bin/qemu-arm -d -A armel m-r-sdk $HOME/mr-sdk/toolchain/arm-2008q3/bin/arm-none-linux-gnueabi-gcc | 18:44 |
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| Stskeeps | i'm running as a user though, not root, should this be a problem? | 18:44 |
| Stskeeps | (i do sb2 -R -e apt-get ) | 18:44 |
| Stskeeps | rootstrap is unpacked as user too | 18:44 |
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| suihkulokki | running at user could cause problems, but for heavens name never try to use sb2 as root :=) | 18:48 |
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| Stskeeps | heh | 18:49 |
| Stskeeps | .. so i run it as the middle path, a vista user? :P | 18:49 |
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| johnx | I think bzr is choking on the + in gtk+ O_o | 18:50 |
| Stskeeps | bzr-svn or? | 18:50 |
| johnx | yeah | 18:50 |
| Stskeeps | remembered the branching schemes thing? | 18:50 |
| johnx | forgot it of course | 18:51 |
| Stskeeps | always good to do before you screw up 16 branches like i did | 18:51 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:51 |
| johnx | er, actually forgot to install bzr-svn | 18:52 |
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| johnx | I think this means I'm close to done for tonight :) | 18:52 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 18:52 |
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| * Stskeeps ponders idly how much it would cost producer-wise to produce a tablet with omap3 | 19:04 | |
| johnx | for Nokia? or for someone doing it on a small production run? | 19:05 |
| Stskeeps | i guess small production run | 19:06 |
| Stskeeps | just pondering the economics of tablets | 19:06 |
| johnx | well, the pandora goes for ~$330 and they're not making terribly much money on it | 19:06 |
| johnx | I guess the size of the production run makes all the difference though | 19:07 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 19:07 |
| johnx | and how much of the R&D is actually shared with other products | 19:07 |
| Stskeeps | and i guess we're speaking pure hw | 19:09 |
| * Stskeeps notes to himself he needs to move mer repo to somewhere sane | 19:13 | |
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| Stskeeps | bw management box seems to have taken a dislike to it | 19:13 |
| johnx | launchpad ppa maybe? | 19:14 |
| johnx | though as I expressed earlier launchpad does not fill me with a warm and fuzzy feeling | 19:14 |
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| Stskeeps | ppa has own builders so it's complicated | 19:16 |
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| johnx | ah, but, they're building for ARM now right? | 19:16 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, but the builders need to include our packages too, so :P | 19:16 |
| Stskeeps | gtk dependancy, for instance | 19:16 |
| johnx | ah | 19:16 |
| johnx | If you say it's complicated I'll take you at your word that I don't even want to know :) | 19:17 |
| Stskeeps | well, at my immediate thought it's not trivial, but i havent looked close enough at the ppas | 19:17 |
| johnx | I'm sure we could beg a little donated web space | 19:18 |
| Stskeeps | i should pull some old contacts | 19:19 |
| Stskeeps | being an ircd coder does have benefits | 19:19 |
| johnx | posting screenshots here did wonders for me with the "debian beta3" thing | 19:19 |
| johnx | but hosting a one-off image file is a little different than a repository I guess | 19:19 |
| Stskeeps | yeah.. or i can reduce number of deblet repos and use one of them for mirror for mer | 19:21 |
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| johnx | so, hildon-desktop, even the one you built depending on maemo-launcher is an executable while it's a shared object on OS2008 | 19:27 |
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| johnx | I think that means it can't possibly work with maemo-launcher, but I'm not sure why it gets built that way if you haven't changed the package much | 19:28 |
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| Stskeeps | that's awkward | 19:28 |
| Stskeeps | maybe they changed it for fremantle? | 19:29 |
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| qwerty12 | If built with maemo-launcher, you should have a <name of program>.launch. You get shared object because stuff built using maemo launcher has "-shared -fPIC" CFLAGS. | 19:29 |
| johnx | the -fPIC is unrelated to maemo-launcher I think | 19:29 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: maybe it has both .launch and non-launch? | 19:29 |
| Stskeeps | fPIC is needed for shared objects :P | 19:29 |
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| johnx | ok, I'll make sure it's using that | 19:30 |
| qwerty12 | johnx, if your program is using pkg-config, use pkg-config --cflags maemo-launcher-app | 19:30 |
| johnx | but the .launch version appears because of something like this "if maemo-launcher ; the mv hildon-desktop hildon-desktop.launch" | 19:31 |
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| johnx | I am already :/ | 19:31 |
| johnx | that's the weird part | 19:31 |
| johnx | this is nokia's package | 19:31 |
| johnx | I'll do a vanilla checkout and build just for fun | 19:31 |
| qwerty12 | If it really is using maemo launcher, "maemo-invoker <name of program>.launch" should work | 19:31 |
| johnx | right, but for that to work it has to be a shared object and somehow my debian/rules looks like it should do the right thing, but isn't obviously | 19:32 |
| johnx | since it makes an executable instead of so | 19:32 |
| qwerty12 | johnx, mind pastebinning the rules? | 19:32 |
| johnx | one sec, I'm going to try a vanilla checkout from tags | 19:33 |
| qwerty12 | k | 19:33 |
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| ShadowJK | is building it as shared .so some trick to increase amount of shared memory pages? | 19:41 |
| lardman | yes | 19:42 |
| lardman | and to ensure that most stuff is preloaded too | 19:42 |
| lardman | I think | 19:42 |
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| suihkulokki | and IIRC to reduce the time used parsing themes/gtkrc/icon themes/etc | 19:43 |
| qwerty12 | https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/trunk/maemo-launcher/README explains it well | 19:44 |
| Proteous | no one wants to RTFM | 19:44 |
| qwerty12 | ORLY | 19:44 |
| Proteous | YARLY | 19:44 |
| qwerty12 | Damn | 19:44 |
| Proteous | heh | 19:44 |
| lardman | am off to a meeting, cu all later/tomorrow | 19:45 |
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| Proteous | lardman the whole meeting | 19:45 |
| johnx | ok, sanity check: Nokia's debian/rules fails to build it as a shared object as well | 19:47 |
| johnx | so qwerty12, if you're interested: https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/tags/hildon-desktop/2.0.19-1/debian/rules | 19:47 |
| johnx | better than pastebin | 19:48 |
| qwerty12 | hehe | 19:48 |
| qwerty12 | Hrm, I've got builds of the version that is shipped with diablo, let me check if that is the same version and if so, is it an shared object | 19:49 |
| qwerty12 | Nope, 2.0.18 comes with diablo. Let me build 2.0.19 in sbox for shits and giggles | 19:49 |
| johnx | I wonder if some magic intersection between CFLAGS containing -fPIC if $DEB_BUILD_OPTIONS=thumb lets this work for Nokia for ARM, but not for me on x86 | 19:50 |
| johnx | but pkg-config --libs maemo-launcher-app *is* returning -shared -fPIC -export-dynamic | 19:51 |
| johnx | so that means I have no more ideas for tonight | 19:51 |
| Stskeeps | binaries can be shared objects too though | 19:51 |
| Stskeeps | what does 'file' say? | 19:51 |
| johnx | executable | 19:51 |
| Stskeeps | er, .. ok, -shared is there too | 19:51 |
| johnx | on diablo it says shared object | 19:51 |
| Stskeeps | hm :P | 19:51 |
| johnx | file is what I tested with first :) | 19:52 |
| Stskeeps | maybe they did it with a prelinker or something like that on diablo? | 19:52 |
| johnx | and just failed to notice that their released version isn't actually workable? | 19:52 |
| johnx | they did have -Werror in their turned on preventing it from even compiling. I guess it works for them on whatever compiler they use though | 19:53 |
| johnx | anyways, really off to sleep | 19:53 |
| Stskeeps | nini | 19:53 |
| Stskeeps | we're on gcc3, they're on 4 :P | 19:53 |
| Stskeeps | er | 19:53 |
| Stskeeps | reverse. | 19:53 |
| johnx | maybe you should get some sleep too :P :D | 19:53 |
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| Stskeeps | it's 7pm, i'll get there | 19:54 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:54 |
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| qwerty12 | johnx, built 2.0.19-1 and "file ~/my_projects/hd/2.0.19-1/debian/build/usr/bin/hildon-desktop.launch : /home/faheem/my_projects/hd/2.0.19-1/debian/build/usr/bin/hildon-desktop.launch: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, ARM, version 1 (SYSV), not stripped" | 20:05 |
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| johnx | qwerty12, would you mind trying an x86 build? | 20:06 |
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| qwerty12 | johnx, sure | 20:06 |
| qwerty12 | (2nd time I've used the X86 target :P) | 20:07 |
| johnx | sorry to mess up your statistics :P | 20:07 |
| qwerty12 | :P | 20:07 |
| * qwerty12 searches for a nodocs rule | 20:08 | |
| qwerty12 | bollocks, I'm still using that newer cp I compiled for arm. a few seconds while I revert it | 20:09 |
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| qwerty12 | johnx, "/home/faheem/my_projects/hd/2.0.19-1/debian/build/usr/bin/hildon-desktop.launch: ELF 32-bit LSB shared object, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), not stripped" | 20:13 |
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| johnx | well, that's quite interesting then | 20:13 |
| johnx | thanks for confirming that. let's me narrow down where to look | 20:14 |
| johnx | anyways, really off to sleep now :) thanks again :D | 20:14 |
| qwerty12 | heh, night johnx | 20:14 |
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| cars__ | This sounds silly, but my n810 sometimes hangs for a long period of time (the UI is unresponsive except for the power button menu) - is there any way to access a virtual console to kill the offending processes, or add such functionality to the power button menu? :) | 20:17 |
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| Stskeeps | powerlaunch might help out ther | 20:18 |
| Stskeeps | e | 20:18 |
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| z4chh | cars__, i get that to, i sometimes reboot if it is bad enough | 20:19 |
| qwerty12 | cars__, you can enable the power button menu to be able to start up an xterm: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=15223 but as to getting an actual virtual console,the process is long and you need an xterm to switch anyway (chvt) | 20:19 |
| cars__ | qwerty12, does the power button menu run at a higher priority than normal apps? If so, would the launched xterm also run at the higher priority? | 20:22 |
| qwerty12 | cars__, I think it does (at least mce is running at one afaik) but I don't know if the xterm will be launched at an higher priority. If you are around a computer, ssh may be worth a bet. | 20:23 |
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| Ro9u3oR | can you test code on the n800 | 20:26 |
| lcuk | Ro9u3oR, not only can you test things on the n800, but you can run them live as well ;) | 20:26 |
| RST38h | Nokia teases major new product launching tomorrow | 20:27 |
| RST38h | Any guesses? | 20:27 |
| Ro9u3oR | lcuk can i pm you | 20:27 |
| lcuk | no | 20:28 |
| lcuk | RST38h, dunno, but is ted stevens involved? | 20:29 |
| GAN800 | RST38h, surely not Maemo-relaated if it's getting an advertising push. ;) | 20:29 |
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| lcuk | hey GAN800 i heard about my n810 through advertising | 20:29 |
| GAN800 | The N810 launch was something like 'OK, here it is' | 20:30 |
| lcuk | isnt that like eveyrones advertising | 20:31 |
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| Stskeeps | RST38h: fremantle alpha sdk better be a major new product launching.. :P | 20:31 |
| lcuk | apart from recent microsoft adverts (were they for shoes?) | 20:31 |
| GAN800 | lcuk, Maemo doesn't get advertising | 20:32 |
| qwerty12 | lcuk, oh those adverts make me laugh. in my school, pc = plastic cock. | 20:32 |
| lcuk | your school sounds like its in need of government "special school" funding :P | 20:33 |
| qwerty12 | lol :P | 20:33 |
| qwerty12 | Damn, I just killed the conversation. I'm sorry. Yes, Maemo doesn't get advertising. | 20:34 |
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| Stskeeps | word-by-mouth advertisement seems to work quite well | 20:35 |
| RST38h | GAN: Yea | 20:35 |
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| RST38h | most likely a touch version of N95 | 20:35 |
| Ro9u3oR | lcuk what program on the N800 is used to write apps | 20:36 |
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| lcuk | what kind of apps? | 20:37 |
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| Ro9u3oR | developement app | 20:38 |
| GAN800 | khertan.net | 20:39 |
| lcuk | so you want to write an app which creates apps? but you want to know what to write the app creator app in? | 20:39 |
| Ro9u3oR | i just wanted to know the name of the program on the n800 that allows you to write apps | 20:40 |
| lcuk | gcc | 20:40 |
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| Ro9u3oR | gcc? | 20:40 |
| lcuk | yes | 20:40 |
| RST38h | foot-in-the-mouth advertising... | 20:40 |
| lcuk | that is the app which converts your source codei nto object code | 20:40 |
| lcuk | source code is written in a language that gcc can understand and it produces a file which a computer can understand | 20:41 |
| sp3000 | ...producing effects which the developer does not understand, thus completing the circle | 20:42 |
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| Ro9u3oR | is gcc already on the n800 or do i need to download it from somewhere other | 20:42 |
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| qwerty12 | lcuk, transparent liqbase: http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/20081129_0420(1).JPG (awful pic quality :P) | 20:49 |
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| lcuk | now THATS interesting | 20:50 |
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| lcuk | qwerty12_N800, just arbitrary overall transparent or keyed? | 20:50 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, no idea :/ | 20:51 |
| lcuk | you are the one with it | 20:52 |
| lcuk | curious how the palette looks like its behind the other icons | 20:52 |
| qwerty12_N800 | yer but i don't know any artistic vocabulary :p (with handwriting as awful as mine, you tend not to be as interested in drawing) | 20:53 |
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| lcuk | lol | 20:53 |
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| t_s_o | heh, i found my workaround for small file dialogs. GPE filemanager and dbus-switchboard ;) | 21:20 |
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| Mousey | i know i asked this yesterday, but | 21:34 |
| Mousey | anyone know where i can get something to rotate my wallpapers every hour? | 21:34 |
| Mousey | i'd be happy to script it if there was like xbg or something out there | 21:35 |
| Mousey | or feh or something | 21:35 |
| GAN800 | lol, rotate. . . . | 21:35 |
| Mousey | not xrandr | 21:35 |
| Mousey | just cycle thru | 21:35 |
| GAN800 | I though you meant degrees. :/ | 21:35 |
| Mousey | hence my clarification =P | 21:35 |
| GAN800 | There's no interface for it. | 21:35 |
| Mousey | I CRY TEARS OF SADNESS! | 21:35 |
| GAN800 | There's a bug if you want to vote for it. | 21:35 |
| Mousey | url? | 21:36 |
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| GAN800 | 'programmatically change background' or something. | 21:36 |
| Stskeeps | isn't it just hacking up backgrnd-manager? | 21:36 |
| GAN800 | h-d | 21:36 |
| Stskeeps | b-m is part of h-d | 21:37 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:37 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, I knew I loved the camera feature of liqbase :) : http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/20081129_0506.JPG | 21:41 |
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| t_s_o | the focus stinks tho... | 21:42 |
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| anddamEshva | hello | 21:46 |
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| Meiz_n810 | k | 21:54 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N801: what the devil is "usbflasher" mentioned in initfs? | 21:54 |
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| qwerty12_N801 | Stskeeps, not sure. it does use usb gadgets though.. | 21:56 |
| Stskeeps | mm | 21:56 |
| Stskeeps | maybe a linux-mode flasher | 21:57 |
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| * Stskeeps wonders if there's such a thing like flashing for netbooks.. | 21:57 | |
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| qwerty12_N801 | "Nokia internet tablet (userspace updater), Support only mmc image flashing" | 21:59 |
| Stskeeps | uh. | 21:59 |
| Stskeeps | that's interesting | 21:59 |
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| Stskeeps | take image from mmc block device and flash it maybe? | 22:00 |
| qwerty12_N801 | could be, i know dell's pocket pc's can do that | 22:01 |
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| Stskeeps | hm, maybe that webcast tomorrow may be interesting anyway | 22:07 |
| Stskeeps | "Be the first to find out the latest from Nseries in 2009 ยป" | 22:07 |
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| Stskeeps | and tag line of "Desktop. Laptop. Pocket" | 22:08 |
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| RST38h | hmmm | 22:09 |
| RST38h | My guess is, it wil be an N-series unified with 5800 in hw design | 22:10 |
| Stskeeps | we'll see | 22:10 |
| RST38h | 5800 has a tv out | 22:10 |
| * Stskeeps is just excited about fremantle sdk :P | 22:10 | |
| Stskeeps | Desktop. Laptop. Pocket doesn't implicate a phone, though | 22:10 |
| RST38h | Nokia is a phone company, whatever they make will look like a phone | 22:11 |
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| Stskeeps | didn't they make tires too or how was it, back then? :P | 22:11 |
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| RST38h | NokiaN | 22:12 |
| derf | So... an NIT that looks like a tire? | 22:13 |
| lcuk | qwerty12_N801, how fast is the refresh on that, is it normal? | 22:13 |
| qwerty12_N801 | lcuk, for the camera one? | 22:13 |
| lcuk | and i agree with t_s_o, its doubly bad focusing - from the nokia and the other one | 22:13 |
| lcuk | yeah | 22:13 |
| qwerty12_N801 | it's actually pretty much normal speed | 22:14 |
| lcuk | cos being able to display a lower resolution completely dynamic background like that might come in handy | 22:14 |
| Stskeeps | http://www.electronista.com/articles/08/12/01/nokia.tablet.tip.at.ubs/ <- 10 inch in my pocket | 22:14 |
| Stskeeps | heh | 22:14 |
| * RST38h imagines collective hard-on at this channel if the mysterious N-series device does end up to be a tablet | 22:14 | |
| Stskeeps | i'd go drinking, probably | 22:15 |
| lcuk | what if its not linux though | 22:15 |
| RST38h | not linux one is already out and known as 5800 | 22:15 |
| Stskeeps | best campaign of misinformation and wasted work by nokia contractors then and marketing | 22:15 |
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| lcuk | qwerty12_N801, what are you actually using for that overlay stuff? | 22:17 |
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| lcuk | and wheres the info on this new thing | 22:17 |
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| qwerty12_N801 | lcuk, a sec | 22:19 |
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| Stskeeps | heh, RX-11: http://www.nokiaphoneblog.com/?p=115 | 22:22 |
| * Stskeeps ponders if FCC has anything on the RX-51 | 22:23 | |
| woglinde | hi | 22:24 |
| Meiz_n810 | hi | 22:28 |
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| Mousey | hi | 22:29 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, sorry. liqbase won't do it for me anymore :'(. you may have more success over ssh (I was using sleep & osso-xterm). install http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/composite/libxcomposite1_0.4.0-3_armel.deb , http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/composite/xcompmgr_1.1.1-0.zuh2_armel.deb , http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/composite/transset-df_6_armel.deb and set processor to performance, run xcompmgr from menu (it's a toggle so running it again wil | 22:42 |
| qwerty12_N800 | l stop xcompmgr (thanks to movial who i stole the script for the bora version from)) and with liqbase running, do a su - user and run transset-df -a over ssh | 22:42 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | fuck. longer than i was expecting. | 22:42 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, did you get that last message by any chance? :-) | 22:49 |
| lcuk | nope, i was busy blowing up my system | 22:50 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | damn. install ). install http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/composite/libxcomposite1_0.4.0-3_armel.deb , http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/composite/xcompmgr_1.1.1-0.zuh2_armel.deb , http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/composite/transset-df_6_armel.deb. run xcompmgr & then liqbase and minimise liqbase. open an xterm and run "sleep 10 ; transset-df -a" and switch back to liqbase and wait ~8 secs | 22:52 |
| lcuk | :D you are nothing if not complete, i only asked you what it was :D | 22:53 |
| qwerty12_N800 | oh, looks like i misinterpreted " what are you using" :D | 22:54 |
| lcuk | nm, better to be complete | 22:54 |
| lcuk | :D ty for info | 22:54 |
| lcuk | im gonna have a play | 22:55 |
| qwerty12_N800 | :) | 22:55 |
| lcuk | firefox is still bein a cow on practically every page. i should never have updated it | 22:55 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | running transset-df -a over ssh (after doing "su - user" ) may be easier if you can ssh in and liqbase is still on the screen | 22:56 |
| lcuk | yeah was thinking about that | 22:56 |
| Meiz_n810 | qwerty12_N800: this is so great, i really like it a lot | 22:56 |
| lcuk | ive got mandelbrot set in internal build ;) | 22:56 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Meiz_n810, yeah, it's good fun :D. seen the pic where i made the camera the background? :) | 22:57 |
| Meiz_n810 | no | 22:57 |
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| Meiz_n810 | transparent windows are good looking and useful | 22:58 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Meiz_n810, http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/20081129_0506.JPG (camera phone alert) | 22:58 |
| Meiz_n810 | thanks | 22:59 |
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| Meiz_n810 | transparent = i can see trough irc-window what is happening on messenger etc... | 22:59 |
| Meiz_n810 | not bad! | 23:00 |
| Meiz_n810 | that pic | 23:00 |
| qwerty12_N800 | :) | 23:04 |
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| ShadowJK | What time is the webcast? | 23:16 |
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| Stskeeps | 9 CET or something | 23:18 |
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| ShadowJK | gnyaah, what geeks can get up at that hour | 23:20 |
| BULLE | ShadowJK: a true geek will of course just record the webcast, and watch it 20:00 CET while having breakfast with a pizza and coca cola | 23:20 |
| ShadowJK | oh, is there an url to it? | 23:21 |
| ShadowJK | like, a straight url to the media stream would be awesome, then you could record it effortlessly | 23:21 |
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| * lcuk curses at javascript | 23:25 | |
| woglinde | he you can write 3d engines with javascript | 23:25 |
| lcuk | yeah it can also make internet access slow | 23:26 |
| lcuk | this page http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/ap081129.html - clicking the picture was taking much longer to show than i expected | 23:26 |
| lcuk | as in, itsj ust a picture - firefox 3 takes almost 2 seconds to show it (even from in cache) | 23:27 |
| * lcuk hates slowdowns \@/ | 23:27 | |
| ds3 | wheeeeeee back to chinook and now the tablet is useful again | 23:27 |
| lcuk | heh ds3, what was wrong | 23:28 |
| woglinde | ds3 hm? | 23:28 |
| woglinde | mine is useful with diablo too | 23:28 |
| ds3 | lcuk: let see... bluetooth keyboard didn't work for me; static address handling is broken n diablo... modest made osso-mail look like perfection.... | 23:28 |
| ds3 | woglinde: we are apparently doing very different things | 23:29 |
| ds3 | oh and mogg w/media player is more broken then in chinook | 23:30 |
| lcuk | ds3, reasonable enough | 23:30 |
| ds3 | lcuk: I gave it 1 full month of real usage before reflashing back this weekend | 23:30 |
| * ShadowJK has static IP address working in diablo | 23:30 | |
| lcuk | actually, yeah i use static as well, never touched email and bt keyboard works (even when in my bag whilst giving a presentation) | 23:31 |
| ds3 | ShadowJK: the bug I ran into is the netmask handling... say I want to use 10.254.254.254/24 as my static IP... diablo sets that up as 10.254.254.254/8 | 23:31 |
| ShadowJK | hm | 23:31 |
| * lcuk has 10.0.0.x | 23:31 | |
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| * lcuk is only upto 5 :$ | 23:32 | |
| ds3 | lcuk: apparently the bt keyboard works for some people only; there is a bugzilla entry for that bug | 23:32 |
| ShadowJK | I have 192.168.42.0/24 | 23:32 |
| ds3 | ShadowJK: you won'tsee that problem as the default, "natural" mask for 192.168.x.x is a /24 | 23:32 |
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| ShadowJK | I have a vague memory of some things suggesting /16 | 23:32 |
| ds3 | 172.16.x.x should default to /16 | 23:33 |
| ds3 | anyways...claws works so much better then modest or osso-mail | 23:33 |
| lcuk | can you install claws on diablo | 23:34 |
| lcuk | not that it matters of course | 23:34 |
| ds3 | think so | 23:34 |
| * lcuk would ignore most email programs | 23:34 | |
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| lcuk | unless of course i could unleash the power of outlook express! | 23:35 |
| ds3 | I use the tablet as a 95% laptop replacement so working email and being able to see stuff on the screen (OSK takes up too much room) is important | 23:35 |
| lcuk | i want my tablets to become information access points | 23:35 |
| * lcuk keeps picking up the wrong damned tablet | 23:36 | |
| ds3 | and even if you do use an odd netmask, you won't see the problem unless you have another local network; they will fail to talk | 23:36 |
| lcuk | anyway, gotta reboot bbl | 23:37 |
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| ds3 | wireless on 10.x.y.z/24 and wired on 10.a.b.c/24 will have problems if then netmask isn't right | 23:37 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk = typical windows user :p | 23:37 |
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| derf | ds3: Does claws support large folders? | 23:54 |
| ds3 | AFAIK, yes | 23:54 |
| ds3 | it is an MH front end | 23:55 |
| derf | I don't have any experience with MH. | 23:58 |
| derf | Its FAQ suggests that it barely supports IMAP at all. | 23:59 |
| RST38h | Vietnamese hackers do it with iPhone: http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2008/12/vietnamunlock.JPG | 23:59 |
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