| Stskeeps | RST38h: yeah, and a pregnant woman lost her baby as well | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
| qwerty12_N800 | Greedy motherfuckers. | 00:00 |
| Stskeeps | economic crisis, eh :P | 00:01 |
| aquatix | well, pumping some money around only helps | 00:02 |
| aquatix | but consumers are weird | 00:03 |
| RST38h | Darwin at work. He never sleeps. | 00:03 |
| RST38h | For the first time, Planned Parenthood in Indiana is offering gift certificates. The organization said a big increase in calls and visits from newly unemployed and uninsured Hoosiers prompted what it calls the unusual, yet practical gift option. | 00:03 |
| doc|home | aquatix: only helps as long as they can afford it. Credit cards don't count. | 00:05 |
| RST38h | Sts: Here go the babies | 00:05 |
| qwerty12_N800 | For those who really can't afford tablet getting shut off by mce so soon : dbus-send --system --type=signal /com/nokia/bme/signal com.nokia.bme.signal.battery_full :P | 00:06 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: i've had deblet run my tablet down to a vegetative state | 00:06 |
| RST38h | qwerty: How much extra time does it give? =) | 00:06 |
| Stskeeps | had to pull battery after it died | 00:06 |
| qwerty12_N800 | RST38h, no idea :P. but useful if you need to finish quickly typing something.., | 00:07 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps, heh | 00:07 |
| RST38h | Speaking of dbus...Is there a list of system dbus messages somewhere? | 00:08 |
| RST38h | I mean, messages accepted by all the standard firmware stuff | 00:08 |
| aquatix | doc|home: myeah, the US economy is weird as everything is on a loan (see credit cards instead of debit cards) | 00:10 |
| doc|home | aquatix: so is its currency, it all has to get paid back at some stage | 00:10 |
| RST38h | That is not economy, that is stupidity | 00:10 |
| doc|home | yup | 00:10 |
| doc|home | that's what happens when you have a federal reserve that cuts interest rates to nothing and a government which gives out money to stimulate the economy | 00:11 |
| * RST38h wonders whether this will eventually end up with indentured servitude | 00:11 | |
| doc|home | RST38h: what do you think the national debt is? | 00:11 |
| doc|home | sorry, that sounded confrontational, it wasn't meant to | 00:12 |
| RST38h | I actually mean literal indentured servitude | 00:12 |
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| RST38h | Where debtor's life eventually becomes the property of his lender | 00:13 |
| doc|home | aren't people already in that position with taxes and the government? | 00:13 |
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| RST38h | No | 00:13 |
| doc|home | you have the choice of not paying taxes? | 00:13 |
| RST38h | You pay taxes for the right to live in a country to which you pay taxes | 00:14 |
| RST38h | Don't like it? Move somewhere else | 00:14 |
| doc|home | not really, even if you decide to sell all your assets to leave the US you're forced to pay an even bigger cut to the government | 00:14 |
| doc|home | and where else is there that doesn't have taxes? | 00:14 |
| RST38h | Well, that is your task to find | 00:15 |
| Stskeeps | anarctica? :P | 00:15 |
| Stskeeps | the moon? :P | 00:15 |
| doc|home | sure, just like finding a master who won't whip me | 00:15 |
| RST38h | As to leaving US, I am aquainted with the law and if you get rid of US citizenship you do not need to pay US taxes | 00:15 |
| RST38h | If you live outside US but retain citizenship, you only need to pay taxes on anything above $80k | 00:16 |
| doc|home | there's a law, or at least a plan for a law, to force you to pay X years taxes if you give up citizen ship | 00:16 |
| RST38h | Sts: Somali will probably do the job | 00:16 |
| RST38h | doc: When it becomes a law, let me know | 00:16 |
| * doc|home not sure why he put a space in there | 00:16 | |
| doc|home | RST38h: ... | 00:16 |
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| RST38h | The two penguins have started placing stones at the feet of parents before waddling away with their eggs, in a bid to hide their theft... But the deception has been noticed by other penguins at the zoo, who have ostracised the gay couple from their group. | 00:27 |
| RST38h | DailyRotten is heavy on parenting tonight | 00:29 |
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| AStorm | hmm | 01:34 |
| univac_ | siema AStorm | 01:34 |
| univac_ | masz n-ke? ;d | 01:34 |
| AStorm | this channel is in English last I heard :> | 01:34 |
| AStorm | yes | 01:34 |
| univac_ | 810? | 01:35 |
| AStorm | yes, so? | 01:35 |
| * univac_ 2 ;p | 01:35 | |
| AStorm | I'd like some more info about getting maemo to start öy init script | 01:35 |
| AStorm | *my | 01:35 |
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| AStorm | I wrote one, dumped it into init.d, added proper symlinks from rc.<somenumber> | 01:37 |
| AStorm | yet it still isn't started | 01:37 |
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| samr7 | hello all | 01:40 |
| AStorm | hi | 01:40 |
| samr7 | hi astorm | 01:40 |
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| samr7 | I'm developing an audio application | 01:41 |
| AStorm | hmm, with my ondemand settings on, fennec is much more snappy | 01:41 |
| samr7 | and am looking for some explanations of how sound works on Maemo | 01:41 |
| * AStorm loves its clickzoom | 01:41 | |
| samr7 | ex: does Skype have good quality audio? | 01:42 |
| AStorm | well, it's mostly esound on top of alsa | 01:42 |
| AStorm | good enough | 01:42 |
| samr7 | it's full duplex? | 01:42 |
| AStorm | although it uses a subpar codec | 01:42 |
| AStorm | uhm... there would be no point in half duplex | 01:42 |
| samr7 | lol, good | 01:42 |
| samr7 | does it provide good sound latency? | 01:42 |
| AStorm | i's skype 1.4 | 01:43 |
| samr7 | what backend does it use, ESD? | 01:43 |
| AStorm | yes | 01:43 |
| AStorm | no idea | 01:43 |
| AStorm | probably esd | 01:43 |
| AStorm | can't use alsa directly while esound is active | 01:43 |
| AStorm | might be using gstreamer though | 01:43 |
| samr7 | ah.. | 01:43 |
| AStorm | but I don't think so | 01:43 |
| samr7 | everybody is telling me that ALSA is not the way to go, because of how the DSP driver is implemented | 01:44 |
| samr7 | and that ESD works a lot better | 01:44 |
| AStorm | well, esd has a dsp resampler | 01:44 |
| AStorm | which is faster than alsa's | 01:45 |
| AStorm | and approx. same quality | 01:45 |
| AStorm | what I find intriguing is how they hacked esd to provide reasonable latency | 01:46 |
| AStorm | it's not meant for that | 01:46 |
| samr7 | hmmm | 01:47 |
| * samr7 looks up the maemo ESD source code | 01:47 | |
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| samr7 | ESD certainly blows chunks using ALSA | 01:48 |
| AStorm | yes | 01:49 |
| samr7 | can't even get it to stream full-duplex without skipping | 01:49 |
| derf | AStorm: Do you know what the latency of the gstreamer interface is? | 01:49 |
| AStorm | no idea | 01:49 |
| AStorm | test it | 01:49 |
| AStorm | not bad though apparently | 01:49 |
| derf | Test it with what. | 01:49 |
| AStorm | derf, uhm, try full loopback? | 01:50 |
| AStorm | and measure time difference | 01:50 |
| AStorm | or try small buffers | 01:50 |
| derf | That sounds like work :) | 01:50 |
| AStorm | and seee when it starts to skip | 01:50 |
| AStorm | samr7, this maemo ALSA interface it a bit weird | 01:51 |
| AStorm | it looks like 3 sound cards | 01:51 |
| samr7 | ? | 01:51 |
| samr7 | to which application? | 01:51 |
| AStorm | ... | 01:52 |
| AStorm | to everything | 01:52 |
| AStorm | see /dev/sound | 01:52 |
| samr7 | what does 'aplay -l' think? | 01:53 |
| samr7 | alsa-lib is very inconsistent about how it presents devices and plugin configurations, and they need to clean it up | 01:53 |
| * samr7 doesn't actually have access to an N8x0 | 01:54 | |
| AStorm | ok, I'll check | 01:54 |
| AStorm | no aplay | 01:55 |
| AStorm | well, I'll see if there are alsa-utils in repo | 01:55 |
| AStorm | nope | 01:55 |
| samr7 | hmmm | 01:56 |
| AStorm | let me send you /proc/asound/cards | 01:56 |
| samr7 | it's got one of those?? | 01:56 |
| AStorm | hmm | 01:56 |
| AStorm | yes | 01:56 |
| samr7 | which platform are you using? | 01:56 |
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| AStorm | n810 | 01:56 |
| AStorm | diablo | 01:57 |
| AStorm | it's 2.6.21-omap | 01:57 |
| AStorm | there's but one device | 01:57 |
| AStorm | 0 [EAC ]: EAC - OMAP24xx EAC | 01:57 |
| AStorm | which is full-duplex I guess | 01:57 |
| samr7 | interesting! | 01:58 |
| samr7 | is that a dummy device maybe? | 01:58 |
| samr7 | what's in /dev/snd/ ? | 01:58 |
| samr7 | I thought ALSA support was implemented using an alsa-lib plugin that connected to their private, non-ALSA kernel DSP interface | 01:59 |
| AStorm | nothing except controlC0 | 01:59 |
| samr7 | ah, so it's a mixer plugin only | 01:59 |
| AStorm | so it bypasses alsa and writes through dsp itself | 01:59 |
| AStorm | sneaky bastards | 01:59 |
| samr7 | that's right, no ALSA kernel driver for PCM. | 02:00 |
| AStorm | there is an alsa driver, fully fledged | 02:00 |
| samr7 | there is? | 02:00 |
| AStorm | not enabled, not that there isn't one | 02:00 |
| AStorm | yes | 02:00 |
| AStorm | I built it with my 2.6.24-omap | 02:00 |
| samr7 | how well does it work? | 02:00 |
| AStorm | well enough | 02:01 |
| AStorm | s/does/did/ | 02:01 |
| AStorm | it might have been improved | 02:01 |
| AStorm | e.g. after mangling gconf, alsa worked | 02:02 |
| AStorm | gstreamer through alsa that is | 02:03 |
| AStorm | (and obviously killing esd) | 02:05 |
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| AStorm | I will build a newer linux-omap and the free wifi driver | 02:07 |
| AStorm | but that's after I'm done with this other stuff, like handwriting recognition | 02:07 |
| samr7 | hm, keeping busy there AStorm | 02:10 |
| samr7 | I'm still curious to know precisely what sound interface Skype uses | 02:10 |
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| AStorm | esd via esddsp is my bet | 02:11 |
| AStorm | or esd directly | 02:12 |
| AStorm | no idea if skype 1.4 had that | 02:12 |
| AStorm | we need 2.x... it's so much better | 02:13 |
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| GAN800 | hchkjwjh | 02:19 |
| GAN800 | mvwkvjug | 02:19 |
| GAN800 | b.laj blnr nblabjj | 02:20 |
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| AStorm | random drunken garbage? ;) | 02:20 |
| * AStorm needs an usb host cable | 02:21 | |
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| Myrtti | or a cat | 02:26 |
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| prez00 | hello.. i have latest updates on n800, email apps constantly stops updating email. using it with 2 imap accounts, have to kill modest and restart app for it to update.. | 03:00 |
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| prez00 | aanyone home? | 03:15 |
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| disco_stu | GeneralAntilles, is there a way to supress the dialog when exiting flight mode? | 05:56 |
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| zakkm | anyone here? | 06:50 |
| AStorm | yes | 06:51 |
| AStorm | (but lagged) | 06:51 |
| disco_stu | lol | 06:52 |
| zakkm | what would megahoc be in wifi? | 06:53 |
| disco_stu | adhoc ? | 06:53 |
| zakkm | o | 06:53 |
| disco_stu | ? | 06:53 |
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| AStorm | I'd love the clickzoom to be in microB | 07:14 |
| AStorm | (from fennec) | 07:14 |
| AStorm | it's great, but other parts of fennec are subpar (yes, it's alpha) | 07:15 |
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| hellanio | brazilian? | 07:23 |
| hellanio | I erased without wanting the /var of mine n800 now does not bind plus somebody can help ? | 07:27 |
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| hellanio | ? | 07:32 |
| hellanio | up! | 07:32 |
| hellanio | :( | 07:32 |
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| AStorm | hellanio, you'll have to reflash or somehow restore /var | 07:38 |
| hellanio | how to make this of an easy skill? I am a little ineteligente with regard to this. | 07:40 |
| hellanio | AStorm: | 07:40 |
| AStorm | hm.. there is a guide on internet tablet talk forums and wiki.maemo.org (hopefully correct url) | 07:41 |
| hellanio | AStorm: Reflash without n800 inicialize the system? it only restarts always! | 07:42 |
| AStorm | yes, you have to hold task button | 07:42 |
| AStorm | one with rectangles | 07:43 |
| hellanio | ok | 07:43 |
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| hellanio | i try.. :D | 07:44 |
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| lopz | nigth | 08:19 |
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| Chani | i was told a while ago that my n810 shipped with a bad partition table on the 2gig flash, but i was too busy to fix it | 09:05 |
| Chani | now i have time... what's the easiest way? is there a cfdisk package? | 09:06 |
| johnx | I believe the format option in the filemanager will fix it | 09:06 |
| johnx | or if you have a linux desktop you could use gparted | 09:06 |
| johnx | I think cfdisk is available, but you'd need to reformat the partition afterwards or you'd just have different problems | 09:07 |
| Chani | hmm, i never thought of doing it over the usb cable | 09:07 |
| johnx | yeah, that would be fine | 09:07 |
| qwerty12 | Yeah, I uploaded cfdisk to extras-devel but if you can do it over a usb cable, it's even easier | 09:08 |
| Chani | but the filemanager formatter was fastest :) yay, writable again... umm... unless that only reformatted and left the partition table damaged still | 09:10 |
| johnx | I was pretty sure that actually fixed it | 09:10 |
| Chani | well, i'll copyy back my data and see what happens | 09:10 |
| qwerty12 | You should be alright, I think fanoush said that his card with multiple partitions got deleted and he was back only with one partition :P | 09:11 |
| qwerty12 | after using file manager's formatter | 09:11 |
| Chani | ah, so it is the meddling little bastard i need it to be ;) | 09:12 |
| qwerty12 | lol | 09:12 |
| RST38h | reMoo | 09:15 |
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| Meiz_n810 | gparted on n810? | 09:18 |
| johnx | probably in ubuntu :) | 09:19 |
| Ro9u3oR | i noticed a utube video with open office 2.x running on the n800. anyone know anything about that? | 09:19 |
| qwerty12 | There's penguinbait's gparted but it's pretty big due to the libraries it uses | 09:19 |
| qwerty12 | Ro9u3oR, deblet or easy debian | 09:19 |
| Ro9u3oR | is that a app | 09:20 |
| Meiz_n810 | sfdisk always shows fatal error cannot read disk drive with my external card. | 09:21 |
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| Meiz_n810 | gparted on both computer and tablet works | 09:21 |
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| qwerty12 | Meiz_n810, Use the parted (command line version) or cfdisk I put in diablo extras-devel then :P | 09:21 |
| Meiz_n810 | ok | 09:21 |
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| Meiz_n810 | parted seemed to work once i tried | 09:22 |
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| prez00 | does anyone else have email client stop updating? latest updates on n800, but have to restart modest every so often, two imap accounts,.. | 09:58 |
| johnx | are you on the latest version of OS2008? | 09:59 |
| johnx | I used to have that problem, but it works now | 09:59 |
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| prez00 | johnx, latest 2008 | 09:59 |
| johnx | Diablo 35-5? | 09:59 |
| johnx | s/35-5/36-5 | 09:59 |
| disco_stu | modest is awful | 10:00 |
| johnx | eh, works fine here | 10:01 |
| disco_stu | liked the one in Chinook | 10:01 |
| johnx | It could never even connect to my mail server | 10:01 |
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| disco_stu | worked fine to me | 10:02 |
| disco_stu | lol | 10:02 |
| prez00 | 36-5 | 10:02 |
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| johnx | then I have no idea, sorry | 10:02 |
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| prez00 | recommendations for another email client? | 10:03 |
| johnx | Claws mail maybe? | 10:03 |
| prez00 | will try it.. | 10:05 |
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| zap | hehe, Fedora 10 new graphical boot screen remembers ITOS very much (centered logo and progress bar at very bottom) | 11:27 |
| qwerty12 | Plymouth looks way more cool than usplash :( | 11:28 |
| zap | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=APQmR_IIpqk | 11:31 |
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| * lcuk yawns | 11:38 | |
| mlpug | is there dbus introspection utility that would list dbus services and their interfaces that are up-and-running in this device at this moment | 11:40 |
| mlpug | dbus-monitor only outputs messages sent to the bus? | 11:40 |
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| Stskeeps | morning lcuk | 11:56 |
| lcuk | bleurg good mornin sts | 11:57 |
| * Stskeeps passes lcuk some coffee | 11:57 | |
| lcuk | :D excellent | 11:57 |
| lcuk | im surprised by how much i slept | 11:57 |
| lcuk | i spent most of yesterday in bed and then zonked again at about 8pm | 11:58 |
| Stskeeps | flu or just burn out? | 12:00 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, i see you've been busy on mer again | 12:00 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, a bit | 12:00 |
| lcuk | migraine | 12:00 |
| Stskeeps | i'm still trying to reach critical mass where people start contributing | 12:00 |
| lcuk | then recovery left me with no energy | 12:00 |
| Stskeeps | but the momentum is there atm | 12:00 |
| lcuk | you have changed the packaging thing havent you | 12:01 |
| lcuk | to the bzr thing? | 12:01 |
| Stskeeps | well, it's just where i'm storing my branches right now | 12:01 |
| Stskeeps | it's a distributed source control system | 12:01 |
| Stskeeps | anyone can take my branches and merge new changes from upstream maemo, or i can merge from their branches | 12:02 |
| Stskeeps | (.. except for some tainted branches) | 12:02 |
| Stskeeps | git has no "easy" contribution so | 12:03 |
| lcuk | ok, so lets say i have a game in ubuntu, that will be a .deb and .tar.gz wont it? | 12:03 |
| Stskeeps | well, most people publish their source in some kind of SVN/CVS/etc. then to package this, a packager could branch their svn, add on packaging information, and then publish this branch | 12:04 |
| Stskeeps | then when a new release comes on, the packager can pull new patches from the original source | 12:05 |
| Stskeeps | if someone want to contribute to this package/source, they can branch the package and publish their changes | 12:05 |
| Stskeeps | and the initial packager can merge in their changes | 12:05 |
| Stskeeps | (accepting patch) | 12:05 |
| lcuk | ok, so bzr is an alternative to git and svn | 12:06 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 12:06 |
| Stskeeps | svn isn't distributed though, it's centrally stored | 12:06 |
| Stskeeps | git is like bzr | 12:06 |
| Stskeeps | bzr can branch off git and svn | 12:06 |
| lcuk | which communities use bsr and know how it works etc | 12:07 |
| slonopotamus | lots of projects on launchpad, i guess | 12:08 |
| slonopotamus | use bzr | 12:08 |
| Stskeeps | launchpad is a stronghold in ubuntu world (bzr), git seems to have a stronghold in maemo upstream | 12:08 |
| Stskeeps | but bzr+launchpad makes it easier for community to join in i guess | 12:09 |
| lcuk | im just thinking where we should be looking for outside people to get involved | 12:10 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 12:10 |
| Stskeeps | well i do think there's quite a lot of inkept force in the maemo community | 12:11 |
| lcuk | if they are already happy with bzr and its simple for them to push their code in | 12:11 |
| lcuk | there is, but theres not been much noise about bzr ever in chan | 12:11 |
| slonopotamus | bzr is good because easily runs on tablet | 12:11 |
| Stskeeps | git doesn't? | 12:12 |
| slonopotamus | easily - no | 12:12 |
| Stskeeps | interesting | 12:12 |
| slonopotamus | someone needs to package it | 12:12 |
| lcuk | only cos its not built - i have used it on my tablet | 12:12 |
| slonopotamus | it needs compiling | 12:12 |
| qwerty12 | git is in extras is it not? | 12:12 |
| slonopotamus | nope | 12:12 |
| slonopotamus | hm | 12:12 |
| slonopotamus | not sure | 12:12 |
| qwerty12 | Oh, it's in extras-devel | 12:13 |
| qwerty12 | http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/g/git-core/ | 12:13 |
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| lcuk | i didnt build it though, it was david, ummm oh crap his nick has vanished | 12:13 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: let's say someone wants to add a patch to a Mer package, it is a matter of .. bzr branch lp:~someoneelse/m-r/packagename, cd packagename, do your changes, bzr commit -m "what i did", bzr push lp:~yourusername/m-r/packagename-patch | 12:13 |
| lcuk | david greaves.. | 12:13 |
| qwerty12 | lbt | 12:13 |
| lcuk | thats the one :D | 12:13 |
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| slonopotamus | then i take my words back ;) | 12:13 |
| slonopotamus | it wasn't there when i was searching for dvcs for tablet | 12:14 |
| qwerty12 | Well, they've been there since July ;) | 12:15 |
| lcuk | :O oh ship | 12:16 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12: so, what should a cross-hw platform DSME do? | 12:20 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, if I had an inkling, I'd happily tell you but I do not :). My [slight] interest with dsme goes as far as CAL. I don't know much about DSME to give you ideas | 12:21 |
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| lcuk | im gonna go n have a *fierce* shower | 12:22 |
| jaska | superheated steam? | 12:23 |
| lcuk | omap3 powershower | 12:25 |
| lcuk | bbl | 12:26 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12: k | 12:26 |
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| `Mace | hm | 12:29 |
| `Mace | anybody know of good burning software for osx? | 12:29 |
| `Mace | something like nero? :) | 12:29 |
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| slonopotamus | man, this is linux-geeks channel ;) | 12:35 |
| slonopotamus | compile k3b ;) | 12:36 |
| `Mace | heh | 12:37 |
| `Mace | wow osx burning software fucking sucks | 12:38 |
| `Mace | wonder if darwin ports has k3b | 12:38 |
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| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: how's gentoo on tablet doing btw? | 13:19 |
| slonopotamus | bad | 13:19 |
| slonopotamus | 1. very old kernel | 13:20 |
| slonopotamus | i hit http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=462677 | 13:20 |
| slonopotamus | so i can't use oabi stage | 13:20 |
| Stskeeps | OABI? why not EABI? | 13:21 |
| slonopotamus | i wanted take oabi stage and recomple into eabi | 13:21 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 13:21 |
| slonopotamus | there are no ready eabi stages | 13:21 |
| slonopotamus | trying to make one via crosscompiling | 13:22 |
| suihkulokki | slonopotamus: the patch for that is trivial | 13:22 |
| slonopotamus | hit http://bugs.gentoo.org/239110 | 13:22 |
| slonopotamus | i'm not brave enough yet to compile custom kernel for tablet :) | 13:23 |
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| Stskeeps | it's pretty simple :P reflashing is always possible | 13:23 |
| qwerty12 | slonopotamus, you are replacing the os and you're telling me that you can't recompile the kernel?! :P :) | 13:24 |
| slonopotamus | i can, i do that often on desktop :) | 13:24 |
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| slonopotamus | anyway, i have 2 ways and two roadblocks. | 13:25 |
| qwerty12 | Hehe, I don't doubt that you can; it just strikes me as odd because you don't even have to flash a kernel if you wish, the N8x0 has the ability to boot a kernel without flashing | 13:25 |
| slonopotamus | oabi stage is very slow, btw | 13:26 |
| slonopotamus | i guess it was built with softfp | 13:27 |
| slonopotamus | and if i say very slow, it really means VERY slow | 13:28 |
| slonopotamus | cross-compiled stuff is fast, btw | 13:28 |
| suihkulokki | slonopotamus: slow doing what? | 13:28 |
| slonopotamus | doing everything | 13:28 |
| slonopotamus | ;) | 13:28 |
| suihkulokki | well everything doesn't use FP :) | 13:29 |
| suihkulokki | since you are talking about stages | 13:29 |
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| suihkulokki | I presume you see slow compiling | 13:29 |
| slonopotamus | maybe because it was built without any cpu-specific optimizations, for generic arm | 13:29 |
| lcuk | what system are you sat inside on the device whilst doing the compilation | 13:30 |
| lcuk | ie: default maemo or some raw root build system? | 13:30 |
| slonopotamus | itos | 13:30 |
| slonopotamus | anyway | 13:31 |
| suihkulokki | slonopotamus: I think you are just low on RAM (and RAM bandwidth) | 13:31 |
| lcuk | in that case, compilation using default "ondemand" setting is about 5x slower than in performance | 13:31 |
| slonopotamus | hmm | 13:31 |
| slonopotamus | lcuk, will look at it | 13:31 |
| lcuk | i notice it - liqbase takes over 10 minutes to build in ondemand and about 3 minutes in performance | 13:31 |
| AStorm | because up_threshold is too high | 13:31 |
| lcuk | i never counted the ondemand one - i just kick myself whenever i notice | 13:31 |
| AStorm | fixable with one write to sysfs | 13:32 |
| suihkulokki | AStorm: is there a bug about that ? | 13:32 |
| AStorm | Nokia should do that :) | 13:32 |
| lcuk | most users dont compile | 13:32 |
| lcuk | its not worth a bug | 13:32 |
| AStorm | suihkulokki, not yet | 13:32 |
| AStorm | nah, it is | 13:32 |
| slonopotamus | i have many ways to go. take python from itos and symlink it to /usr/bin/python, for example | 13:32 |
| AStorm | it helps performance all around | 13:32 |
| lcuk | yeah astorm i know that | 13:32 |
| lcuk | i stressed lots during this year | 13:32 |
| slonopotamus | or build python inside my chroot by hand | 13:33 |
| AStorm | with neglible cost in power usage :) | 13:33 |
| suihkulokki | it would be interesting to see if/how it affects battery life | 13:33 |
| slonopotamus | i.e. without portage | 13:33 |
| lcuk | AStorm, uh huh, i live in performance now | 13:33 |
| AStorm | (if powersave_bias is on) | 13:33 |
| AStorm | performance eats battery much faster | 13:33 |
| slonopotamus | or hack'n'patch kernel | 13:33 |
| AStorm | not worth it | 13:33 |
| slonopotamus | so oabi chroot works | 13:33 |
| AStorm | slonopotamus, trying to put gentoo too? | 13:33 |
| AStorm | :D | 13:34 |
| slonopotamus | hm | 13:34 |
| slonopotamus | you too? | 13:34 |
| lcuk | i dont notice that astorm, but then again - a bad leaky process somewhere would leak faster in performance than in ondemand | 13:34 |
| AStorm | hm | 13:34 |
| AStorm | slonopotamus, I have that on agenda | 13:34 |
| lcuk | sorry, not leaky - i meant busy | 13:34 |
| AStorm | no time right now | 13:34 |
| AStorm | yes | 13:35 |
| slonopotamus | astorm, nosocomia blog - yours? | 13:35 |
| AStorm | esp. transient processes | 13:35 |
| AStorm | no | 13:35 |
| AStorm | I don't blog (yet?) | 13:35 |
| slonopotamus | have you tried anything yet? | 13:36 |
| AStorm | anytzhing as in kernel replacement | 13:36 |
| AStorm | and crossing | 13:36 |
| AStorm | I also built stuff on nit itself using codesourcery toolchain | 13:37 |
| slonopotamus | got fully-functional gentoo chroot? | 13:37 |
| AStorm | no, that's the "on agenda" part | 13:37 |
| AStorm | not that it would be any hard | 13:37 |
| AStorm | gcc and python built nicely (cross) | 13:38 |
| slonopotamus | how??? | 13:38 |
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| AStorm | crossdev | 13:38 |
| slonopotamus | didn't you hit http://bugs.gentoo.org/239110 | 13:38 |
| slonopotamus | ? | 13:38 |
| slonopotamus | that's the only trouble for me to get fully-functional chroot | 13:39 |
| AStorm | ahh | 13:39 |
| AStorm | I did stable | 13:40 |
| slonopotamus | that is stable | 13:40 |
| AStorm | anyway, disabling the test is simple if you have to | 13:40 |
| AStorm | as of recently | 13:40 |
| AStorm | I did 2.4.something | 13:41 |
| slonopotamus | k | 13:41 |
| AStorm | anyway, it should be possible to bypass the test with config.cache or what was it | 13:42 |
| slonopotamus | so that should be enough for chroot | 13:42 |
| AStorm | CLFS has hacks for these | 13:42 |
| slonopotamus | crossdev-wrappers too | 13:42 |
| slonopotamus | config.site | 13:42 |
| AStorm | yes | 13:42 |
| slonopotamus | came across crossdev-wrappers only this week :( | 13:43 |
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| slonopotamus | next step will be to flash the most fanoush initfs | 13:44 |
| slonopotamus | the one that supports linuxrc on partition | 13:44 |
| AStorm | ehh? | 13:44 |
| AStorm | build your own | 13:44 |
| AStorm | you only need two apps from it | 13:44 |
| AStorm | one to update the screen | 13:45 |
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| slonopotamus | don't want to depend on custom kernel/initfs | 13:45 |
| AStorm | hm? | 13:45 |
| slonopotamus | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/bootmenu/ | 13:46 |
| AStorm | why should you? initfs is actually superfluous | 13:46 |
| slonopotamus | that will be enough | 13:46 |
| AStorm | yes, bootmenu is a nice hack | 13:46 |
| slonopotamus | it will just call linuxrc on gentoo partition | 13:47 |
| AStorm | esp. important is that screen updater and text output | 13:47 |
| AStorm | but then, if you build a custom kernel, you can change the default for auto screen updates | 13:47 |
| Stskeeps | .. and remember to let X switch it back so you do manual updates, or performance is horrid :P | 13:48 |
| slonopotamus | auto screen updates - ? | 13:48 |
| slonopotamus | ah | 13:48 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: framebuffer console doesn't automatically refresh the screen, so | 13:48 |
| slonopotamus | custom kernel = need to hack'n'patch each time nokia updates it | 13:48 |
| AStorm | no | 13:49 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: nokia seems to be moving towards git so it might be easier | 13:49 |
| slonopotamus | i'm too lazy for that ;) | 13:49 |
| AStorm | just use linux-omap tgree | 13:49 |
| AStorm | tree | 13:49 |
| AStorm | should work now | 13:49 |
| AStorm | for wifi, you have to grab new driver | 13:49 |
| slonopotamus | ok, need to reflash/recompile each time | 13:49 |
| AStorm | ah, and you must get Xomap built against new kernel headers | 13:49 |
| slonopotamus | Xomap. have you tried googling for it? it almost doesn't exist ;) | 13:51 |
| AStorm | it is in the source repo | 13:51 |
| Stskeeps | AStorm: xserver-xorg-video-omapfb exists now | 13:51 |
| AStorm | yay | 13:51 |
| AStorm | news | 13:51 |
| AStorm | :) | 13:51 |
| slonopotamus | hm | 13:51 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, so just vanilla xorg + xserver-xorg-video-omapfb? | 13:52 |
| Stskeeps | aye | 13:52 |
| Stskeeps | that's what we're using in Mer, atleast | 13:53 |
| * Stskeeps tries to get SB2 going. | 13:53 | |
| AStorm | Mer? | 13:53 |
| slonopotamus | good | 13:53 |
| slonopotamus | Mer? no more deblet? :) | 13:53 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 13:53 |
| slonopotamus | morning | 13:53 |
| Stskeeps | AStorm: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed , http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint , http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i/ (last one has a section that explains it briefly) | 13:54 |
| slonopotamus | ok. forget Xomap. | 13:54 |
| lcuk | mornin jaffa | 13:54 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: yeah, .. desktop/server distributions has issues on tablets, power consumption, mer is successor to deblet | 13:54 |
| Stskeeps | and has a lot more potential | 13:54 |
| lcuk | jaffa, i heard the a team music when you posted your stop moaning and make a plan yesterday | 13:55 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, good. do you believe in os2009 on n8x0? | 13:55 |
| * lcuk does | 13:55 | |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: we'll know more after december | 13:55 |
| slonopotamus | i don't | 13:55 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: in any case, Mer is a way to move Maemo into community hands | 13:55 |
| Stskeeps | (Mer is not supposed to be "just hildon" though) | 13:56 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: gotta keep the electorate on side ;-) | 13:56 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: stop moaning and start helping out? :P | 13:56 |
| lcuk | jaffa, no qualms at all - i just wonder which a team member you want to be :P | 13:56 |
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| lcuk | since you got the train and ferry across europe instead of being normal and flying i think you should be B.A | 13:57 |
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| Jaffa | lcuk: Heh :) | 13:57 |
| lcuk | don't tell gan but he can be murdock ;) | 13:58 |
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| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: and nokia is actually doing quite a nice thing for Fremantle-HE if the sdk is 100% oss | 13:59 |
| slonopotamus | i didn't say anything bad about freemantle ;) | 13:59 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: Unstable, but comical and always there in the middle of things? ;-) | 14:00 |
| lcuk | :D | 14:00 |
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| lcuk | ummmm printf in c, how do i format as 0.000? first time ive tried to do stuff with floats i think | 14:02 |
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| Jaffa | lcuk: something like %.3d IIRC | 14:02 |
| * slonopotamus doesn't believe in binary-based distros | 14:03 | |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: meh, if you want user to have a image on hw.. :P | 14:04 |
| lcuk | its ok | 14:04 |
| lcuk | im a stupid twonk | 14:05 |
| lcuk | i had a lovely calcaspect() function which did everything internal in float, then returned result as an int | 14:05 |
| * lcuk facepalms | 14:05 | |
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| AStorm | hehe | 14:05 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: in any case some of the principles are useful in any kind of tablet stuff | 14:05 |
| lcuk | \o/ yesssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss | 14:06 |
| * Stskeeps grrs at sb2 | 14:07 | |
| AStorm | sb is a broken thing :) | 14:08 |
| Stskeeps | sb2 is a little more sane but it doesn't sing by my tune just yet | 14:08 |
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| Stskeeps | AStorm: if you're interested in system arch / design, you're more than welcome to join in on #reconstructedPOC on jaiku , or contribute to the proposals.. this stuff might actually go somewhere :P | 14:09 |
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| * lcuk is pleased with his handwriting | 14:17 | |
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| lcuk | hiya housetier, hows the c-base holding up in the cold? :D | 14:21 |
| housetier | hello there :) | 14:22 |
| housetier | it's holding up quite well actually. we are refurbishing it this week: fresh paint all over the place, new furniture at the bar, new hardware in the server room | 14:24 |
| housetier | its busy, although only very few people actually do work | 14:24 |
| lcuk | heh, stop giving the others beer unless they help out | 14:26 |
| housetier | during "Bauwoche" (building week) every present member has to work or to leave | 14:26 |
| lcuk | all i can say is if I were in Berlin I wouldv come down to help :) | 14:27 |
| housetier | :) | 14:29 |
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| lcuk | why cant my code code itself | 14:51 |
| lcuk | "ummm computer, hello computer, make me a program" | 14:51 |
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| beav1s | lcuk: i thought windows does. but not that good ;) | 14:54 |
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| lcuk | heh beav1s, yeah, the point was to hav e working code | 14:55 |
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| beav1s | something like "hello computer, hee...pokpokpok...answering-->bluescreen | 14:55 |
| beav1s | agreed ;) | 14:55 |
| lcuk | ahhh well, i suppose ill just carry on thinking about interfaces and interactions and hopefully something pretty will come of it | 14:56 |
| beav1s | *thumbs* | 14:56 |
| mikkov_ | fiferboy: new version of boost is now there | 15:08 |
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| * qwerty12_N800 curses at having to set SDL_VIDEO_X11_WMCLASS | 15:09 | |
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| lcuk | YESSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!! i have a usb for my n800 | 15:16 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hehe, congrats :P | 15:16 |
| Stskeeps | wuubwubwubwub. | 15:17 |
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| * lcuk almost dropped it | 15:18 | |
| lcuk | that wouldv been just fecking typical | 15:18 |
| GAN800 | Why is Modest's quoting so weird? | 15:19 |
| lcuk | i dont know, why is modest's quoting so weird? | 15:19 |
| GAN800 | Who said 'let's do it contrary to every other email client'. . . . | 15:19 |
| lcuk | worst case scenario, if i charge device whilst flashing will i just have to wait till its charged to try again? | 15:20 |
| Jaffa | Apparently it's in "the spec" | 15:20 |
| * Jaffa moaned about it early on and was told "meh" via Bugzilla | 15:20 | |
| lcuk | all heal the spec | 15:21 |
| lcuk | hail even | 15:21 |
| lcuk | though thats quite freudian | 15:21 |
| GAN800 | maybe if somebody writes a patch. . . | 15:21 |
| GAN800 | Though you can always tell Modest users. | 15:22 |
| lcuk | but whats wrong with it | 15:22 |
| GAN800 | It's shit | 15:22 |
| lcuk | dunno, never used it | 15:22 |
| GAN800 | it seemingly doesn't actually quote. | 15:22 |
| Jaffa | No attribution, signature in wrong place, sig sep trimmed (that's a fun one) | 15:22 |
| GAN800 | Just adds an 'original message' header | 15:23 |
| Jaffa | Unchangeable font in the composition window => not being able to be sure of 72 char line width | 15:23 |
| lcuk | ooooh my computer found my nokia | 15:23 |
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| lcuk | bah! ill try again once its fully fully charged, damn thing wont connect to nokia updater | 15:32 |
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| GAN800 | lcuk, you can't charge and flash at the same time. | 15:41 |
| lcuk | i wasnt trying to, it was showing 1hour - i shut it off totally wtihout charger in (i popped battery then afterwards) | 15:41 |
| lcuk | i connected to usb, pressed home and turned on. i got the usb icon, but the updater couldnt find it. | 15:42 |
| lcuk | this was from the same usb port that a couple of minutes before detected n800 in disk mode | 15:42 |
| lcuk | ill try again after its had a bit longer charge | 15:43 |
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| slonopotamus | 16:13 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | 16:13 | |
| johnx | ? | 16:13 |
| qwerty12_N800 | ??? | 16:13 |
| Stskeeps | .. ? | 16:13 |
| johnx | !!! | 16:13 |
| qwerty12_N800 | !?!?!? | 16:13 |
| johnx | OMGWTFBUS | 16:14 |
| slonopotamus | o_O | 16:14 |
| qwerty12_N800 | 0000_oooo | 16:14 |
| slonopotamus | thx | 16:14 |
| slonopotamus | just checked if i'm online | 16:14 |
| Stskeeps | it's officially boring day of the week | 16:14 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:14 |
| johnx | <- drunk o'clock here | 16:15 |
| johnx | but I'm in the future :) | 16:15 |
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| Stskeeps | hehe | 16:15 |
| * Stskeeps is coding up a saner builder | 16:15 | |
| slonopotamus | hehe | 16:16 |
| * johnx had to get drunk before he could consider the sapwood / gtk+ problem again | 16:16 | |
| slonopotamus | poor binary guy | 16:16 |
| slonopotamus | btw | 16:16 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: we actually compile our own stuff :P | 16:16 |
| slonopotamus | wtf is hildon? | 16:17 |
| * lcuk is saning up a code builder | 16:17 | |
| slonopotamus | ;) | 16:17 |
| lcuk | its where you stay if you cant afford the hilton | 16:17 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: hildon is the user interface you see on nokia tablets :P | 16:17 |
| slonopotamus | tray + menubar? | 16:17 |
| slonopotamus | and desktop? | 16:17 |
| GAN800 | Nokia IPs in the wikipedia edit history are ridiculously easy to spot. | 16:17 |
| johnx | hildon-desktop is that yes | 16:17 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah, and some extra stuff, api wise | 16:17 |
| johnx | libhildon is what the apps use to give them that maemo-y look | 16:18 |
| qwerty12_N800 | autobuilder's i386 building requirement is annoying. I'm tempted to shove a few "|| true"'s to force it to carry on even if building for i386 | 16:18 |
| GAN800 | slonopotamus, try wikipedia. ;) | 16:18 |
| slonopotamus | hmm. aren't there skins in gtk? | 16:18 |
| slonopotamus | why to link apps against this strange thing? | 16:19 |
| johnx | yes, gtk has themes, but hildon goes beyond that in some ways | 16:19 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: also it helps with power consumption | 16:19 |
| johnx | hmm? hildon is related to power consumtion? | 16:19 |
| slonopotamus | menubar with power saving features | 16:20 |
| slonopotamus | wtf | 16:20 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: .. the thing about hibernation maybe | 16:20 |
| GAN800 | wiki | 16:20 |
| Stskeeps | or was that libosso | 16:20 |
| qwerty12_N800 | yep, libosso | 16:20 |
| GAN800 | libosso | 16:20 |
| slonopotamus | hehe | 16:20 |
| slonopotamus | lib with support for opensource ;) | 16:21 |
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| slonopotamus | i haven't heard kde required linking against kwin | 16:22 |
| slonopotamus | link against qt - and be happy | 16:22 |
| johnx | that's kind of unrelated | 16:22 |
| johnx | the maemo window manager is actually matchbox | 16:23 |
| qwerty12_N800 | you aren't forced to link against hildon libraries either | 16:23 |
| slonopotamus | ok, not kwin but kde menubar | 16:23 |
| johnx | there's just a lot of things named hildon :) | 16:23 |
| slonopotamus | hmm | 16:23 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: ok, libhildon != hildon desktop | 16:23 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:23 |
| woglinde | hi | 16:23 |
| GAN800 | slonopotamus, wikipedia | 16:23 |
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| slonopotamus | GAN800, i'm just kidding. all this hildonizing looks seams like a wrong thing | 16:24 |
| johnx | that's nice. many of the people who understand what it is disagree, but thanks for your input | 16:25 |
| GAN800 | Ubuntu Mobile and Moblin both use Hildon. | 16:25 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hah | 16:25 |
| slonopotamus | like 'wanna use fluxbox? please, go and hack your app so it is fluxboxed' | 16:25 |
| johnx | that's different and you know it | 16:25 |
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| * Stskeeps passes a vodka bottle over the bar desk for johnx | 16:26 | |
| johnx | heh | 16:26 |
| johnx | got plenty here :) | 16:26 |
| * Stskeeps could really need vodka today. | 16:26 | |
| Stskeeps | still some hours left till i can justify switching to hard liqour | 16:27 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:27 |
| johnx | come over and I'll get you fixed up with whatever I can find | 16:27 |
| GAN800 | Google has new buttons in the search results today. . . . | 16:27 |
| konttori_ | slonopotamus: really, the point is that on a mobile device you have so much less space, that in order for the app to be useful, you'd anyway have to modify it to fit to such a small screen | 16:27 |
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| konttori_ | but, I agree that normal gtk windows should behave correctly anyway. | 16:27 |
| johnx | GAN800, not seeing them. what are they? | 16:27 |
| slonopotamus | and so what? pass different deffault settings to gtk widgets | 16:28 |
| lcuk | having the default tools available is better, even if you have to redraw and modify the experience to suit the display and interaction | 16:28 |
| qwerty12_N800 | wiki stuff. i've had them for a while. | 16:28 |
| GAN800 | johnx, flp the minimize arrow on our toolbar and it looks exactly like that. | 16:28 |
| GAN800 | the arrow and the x | 16:28 |
| GAN800 | next to wach result | 16:29 |
| GAN800 | SearchWiki | 16:29 |
| johnx | interesting. I'm not seeing them yet | 16:30 |
| Stskeeps | using .com or .jp? | 16:30 |
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| johnx | .com | 16:31 |
| slonopotamus | 'if you don't hildonize your app, menubar will apear wrong'. damn, it's window manager job to place window correctly and to draw window decorations | 16:31 |
| johnx | uhm no? | 16:31 |
| johnx | the menubar is part of the app | 16:32 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: a menu isn't a window decoration though | 16:32 |
| lcuk | technically, the app should define the palette of options along with priorities, an ideal interface would then display that palette as required | 16:32 |
| slonopotamus | i'm not very good with gtk but i didn't find any reasons why hildon must be so intrusive | 16:34 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Look at the screen space we have available. An hildonized menu takes up less space than a standard gtkmenubar on the tablets. | 16:35 |
| johnx | hildon also supplies a more touchscreen-oriented open/save dialog and some other stuff | 16:36 |
| slonopotamus | hehe | 16:36 |
| slonopotamus | please select /etc/passwd in your friendly file chooser | 16:37 |
| johnx | yeah, you can't | 16:37 |
| johnx | for a consumer device, that's a "good thing" (tm) | 16:37 |
| slonopotamus | for a geek device, this is a useless file chooser | 16:37 |
| Stskeeps | make a patch then | 16:37 |
| GAN800 | Nokia's goal isn't a 'geek device' | 16:38 |
| Stskeeps | "Full file system" | 16:38 |
| slonopotamus | is it opensource? | 16:38 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:38 |
| Stskeeps | yes it is | 16:38 |
| Jaffa | slonopotamus: there's no good technical reason why Hildon is so intrusive. Nokia didn't want to maintain a fork, so the behaviour of existing widgets is largely unchanged, and you have to use different widgets to get the behaviour that a device owner expects. | 16:38 |
| johnx | it's funny but I rarely feel like editing /etc/passwd from a GUI app and guess what, I'm definitely a geek | 16:38 |
| johnx | I know how to work on cars but I also don't feel like having the fuse box exposed all the time | 16:39 |
| GAN800 | johnx, I really don't understand it either. | 16:39 |
| slonopotamus | Jaffa, that's what i thought. 'let's make quick hack, so we don't have problems. community will have, but who cares' | 16:40 |
| GAN800 | if I want to dig in deep I open xterm or ssh in. | 16:40 |
| GAN800 | The 'quick hack' seems to be acceptable for Ubuntu | 16:40 |
| slonopotamus | Ubuntu is a quick hack :) | 16:41 |
| slonopotamus | they patch a lot, but don't send upstream | 16:41 |
| Jaffa | slonopotamus: It's not a "quick hack" solution - it's a "we don't want to lose any benefit of staying close to upstream, and want to ensure our development benefits upstream too". I can understand it. I don't /agree/ with it, but it makes some sense. | 16:41 |
| slonopotamus | Jaffa, makes, yes | 16:42 |
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| slonopotamus | Jaffa, bug from app developer POV it's ugly | 16:43 |
| konttori_ | does anyone know how to install ogg support to diablo? | 16:43 |
| slonopotamus | but | 16:43 |
| konttori_ | the ogg-support package is missing from repos | 16:43 |
| kulve | konttori_: it's on my repo, not in the extras(-devel) | 16:44 |
| Jaffa | slonopotamus: agreed entirely. Qt & SWT toolkits for Maemo go the other way, and at the Summit Nokia were talking about making the default controls more finger friendly. | 16:44 |
| kulve | konttori_: the single click install is available in the maemo.org/downloads | 16:44 |
| konttori_ | ok. thanks. I just cannot then add the dependency to ukmp. | 16:45 |
| slonopotamus | Jaffa, good. it definitely should be easier to tweak 1 lib then each app based on that lib | 16:45 |
| lcuk | kulve, any reason why not pushed to extras? | 16:45 |
| konttori_ | would this work: gstreamer0.10-plugins-ivorbis | 16:45 |
| konttori_ | That is in extras devel | 16:46 |
| Jaffa | slonopotamus: A lot of this could be done upstream as well, e.g. some kind of GtkMenuProvider interface, which Hildon could provide. Would also help with ROX & OS X-inspired Gtk+ based desktops. | 16:46 |
| slonopotamus | Jaffa, good ;) is browserd looks crazy only to me? ;) | 16:48 |
| johnx | yeah, that's just crazy | 16:48 |
| johnx | agreed there | 16:48 |
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| slonopotamus | johnx, maybe it has some smart reason? | 16:49 |
| johnx | something about fast startup by having the browser cached in memory | 16:50 |
| slonopotamus | i close my browser, i have few free ram. but no, this damn thing sits there and eats my precious ram | 16:50 |
| konttori_ | it's also about browser stability and ability to serve web runtime home applets | 16:50 |
| GAN800 | and memory savings when other applications use it | 16:50 |
| slonopotamus | GAN800, uh? | 16:50 |
| slonopotamus | GAN800, gimme an exa,ple | 16:51 |
| Jaffa | slonopotamus: why do you care about your RAM when an app doesn't need it? | 16:51 |
| slonopotamus | Jaffa, my other app needs it | 16:51 |
| GAN800 | konttori already did | 16:51 |
| johnx | I think one common browser daemon serves anything that needs to use it | 16:51 |
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| slonopotamus | Jaffa, so i have to go and kill browserd | 16:51 |
| GAN800 | It's the same setup Chrome and IE8 use | 16:51 |
| kulve | konttori_: some maemo people actually pushed at least most of my packages to extras-devel.. | 16:51 |
| GAN800 | It's about 7MB in reality | 16:52 |
| konttori_ | ah. but not ogg-support | 16:52 |
| slonopotamus | 7-12 i'd say | 16:52 |
| lcuk | ok, a browser - a simple thing with not much happening under the hood to display a blank page: WTF takes it so long to get started | 16:52 |
| slonopotamus | that's 6-10% | 16:52 |
| Jaffa | GAN800: Not really - it's more the complete opposite of what IE8 & Chrome do :) | 16:52 |
| konttori_ | perhaps the same maemo guys could push also the ogg-support there | 16:52 |
| kulve | lcuk: yes. I've taken the Nokia's source packages and changed the binary packages they produce. I don't want to push source package called X to extras-devel if Nokia already provide source package called X | 16:52 |
| konttori_ | lcuk: I agree. I cannot understand why browser is so slow to start | 16:53 |
| slonopotamus | GAN800, you wanna say chrome runs demon even if i cllose browser? | 16:53 |
| lcuk | kulve, reasonable response, since its at source level, have you tried submitting a patch? | 16:53 |
| kulve | lcuk: and because rumours say the maemo 5 will include ogg, I haven't bothered to rename the source packages | 16:53 |
| lcuk | i cant understand why ANY program is slow to start | 16:53 |
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| woglinde | *g* | 16:54 |
| konttori_ | if app needs to read a lot of data files, that's a reason for slow start | 16:54 |
| GAN800 | Not really, I want to make myself a turkey sammich and stop arguing nonsense. | 16:54 |
| lcuk | agreed, but most do incremental loading as required | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | mm turkey | 16:54 |
| konttori_ | however, for browser, that is clearly not the case | 16:54 |
| woglinde | lcuk try a profile build and find out | 16:54 |
| woglinde | where the most time is spended | 16:54 |
| lcuk | not my bag | 16:54 |
| woglinde | hm is there oprofile for the tablets? | 16:55 |
| * Stskeeps could really need a good sandwich instead of pumpkin soup | 16:55 | |
| lcuk | ill just reimplement something if it doesnt feel right for me | 16:55 |
| lcuk | get it feeling right, then flesh it out | 16:55 |
| qwerty12_N800 | woglinde, yes, kernel, oprofile & oprofileui in sdk repo | 16:55 |
| woglinde | qwerty hehe okay and did some one profile why it is so slow? | 16:56 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | effing google's link tracking. takes the piss when you copy a link | 16:58 |
| johnx | ...pumpkin soup actually sounds good, but pumpkin pie sounds better... | 16:59 |
| * GAN800 has got some key lime | 16:59 | |
| derf | Hah, only in Florida. | 16:59 |
| GAN800 | Best pie ever | 17:00 |
| * johnx misses key lime, but misses cheese cake even more | 17:00 | |
| derf | I do love me some key lime pie, but not for Thanksgiving. | 17:00 |
| * johnx lives in the future, did Thanksgiving last weekend | 17:00 | |
| GAN800 | I had a slice of pumpkin and a slice of key lime for dessert on Thanksgiving. ;) | 17:01 |
| derf | johnx: You don't live that far in the future. | 17:01 |
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| GAN800 | Says the jealous man from the past. :p | 17:02 |
| lopz | hi | 17:03 |
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| Stskeeps | would any of you pay for an major update to the base system of your n8x0s? | 17:09 |
| Stskeeps | .. just curious | 17:09 |
| glass_ | hmmh | 17:09 |
| glass_ | probably not | 17:09 |
| glass_ | it would have to be pretty damn cool update | 17:10 |
| Stskeeps | like, since we won't be buying new hw, how would nokia finance updates to old devices? | 17:10 |
| glass_ | they probably wouldn't | 17:10 |
| glass_ | bugfixes sure.. | 17:10 |
| Stskeeps | updates being the closed source parts/differentations that target our devices | 17:10 |
| johnx | true open source followers are rather stingy :) | 17:10 |
| * qwerty12_N800 places £500 down on the notion that they wouldn't | 17:11 | |
| lcuk | not really johnx, every single one of us here has stumped up x cash for our devices | 17:11 |
| Jaffa | No one's ever had any success selling to end-users of Maemo devices, despite at least 3 people trying | 17:11 |
| glass_ | lcuk: not really | 17:11 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: if i really had a go argumenting at a gnubie meetup, i'd end up being lynched.. | 17:11 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:11 |
| johnx | s/:)/when it comes to software :P/ | 17:11 |
| infobot | johnx meant: true open source followers are rather stingy when it comes to software :P | 17:11 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: maybe cos the infrastructure isn't there for it | 17:11 |
| lcuk | yes glass, i invested in open source when i purchased my device - its not like we are sitting around using existing hardware | 17:11 |
| * Stskeeps wouldn't mind an "app store", using paypal/micropayments, but without stingy rules | 17:12 | |
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| glass_ | lcuk: i would suspect that there are many guys on this channel who didn't pay themselfs for their device | 17:12 |
| * Stskeeps did. | 17:12 | |
| lcuk | then how did they get their first one | 17:12 |
| glass_ | the guys who do hired dev certainly haven't | 17:12 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, hmm? lynched why? | 17:12 |
| Stskeeps | (as in, i paid for my device.) | 17:12 |
| glass_ | lcuk: from work, from wherever project | 17:12 |
| lcuk | i agree, my family has grown substantially since i came here - but i had to shell out for my first | 17:12 |
| lcuk | glass_, then the company has paid | 17:13 |
| lcuk | its not for free | 17:13 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: me vs true open source fanatics wouldn't go down well :P | 17:13 |
| Jaffa | Stskeeps: plenty of people made money through software before "App Store"s came along. If *most* apps are pay-for (even micro pay-for), you can expect some money. When it's only a small minority, users will turn their noses up | 17:13 |
| glass_ | lcuk: yes, but you said stumped up cash... | 17:13 |
| lcuk | im sure the companies accountant paid with real cash | 17:13 |
| glass_ | well, not necessarely either | 17:14 |
| Stskeeps | Jaffa: heh, opposite effect of critical mass.. before people refused to use open source cos not many people used it, and used propertiary solutions instead, .. and now it's reverse | 17:14 |
| glass_ | lcuk: nokia partners get devices without cash | 17:14 |
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| GAN800 | I'd just buy the new hardware | 17:15 |
| glass_ | but anyways, firmware updates that cost are not nokias way so far | 17:15 |
| GAN800 | Nokia could never lock down a for-pay upgrade well enough | 17:15 |
| Stskeeps | true | 17:15 |
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| Stskeeps | i think there might be some thought in bounties for getting something done | 17:15 |
| Stskeeps | "backport modest fixes from fremantle" | 17:16 |
| lcuk | thats a new app though isnt it | 17:16 |
| johnx | it's funny how each platform projects a certain sentiment. linux = "open your code", windows = "nickle and dime for enverything", mac = "pay for good software" | 17:16 |
| GAN800 | I still think a community backport will be much more staightforward this time around | 17:16 |
| lcuk | mmm i dont | 17:17 |
| GAN800 | and I bet you'll even be able to get some help from the Nokia HE people. | 17:17 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps, some want the mail app from chinook back :P | 17:17 |
| johnx | well everything won't be backported of course | 17:17 |
| GAN800 | Either way, there's still a few SSUs to go. | 17:17 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: i'm there | 17:17 |
| johnx | but somehow I don't see them linking every single app against clutter :) | 17:17 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, well, we will know soon what the nature of fremantle will be | 17:18 |
| johnx | I am actually more curious/worried/excited than I have been in a long time about a new software release | 17:18 |
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| Stskeeps | hehe, join the club | 17:19 |
| lcuk | im glad weve got options, one thing we must be able to do: run mer in n900 | 17:19 |
| Stskeeps | i'm wondering how many of my hopes will come up | 17:19 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: cos you're on the list for lead users? ;> | 17:19 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps, hehe, i don't think it would be hard to do so even if the chinook one is closed source (parts are afaik) but i don't use a mail client on the n800 so it's not worth me investing time in it imo | 17:19 |
| johnx | lcuk, now that would be interesting: competing against Nokia's current OS with a past version of their old OS :) | 17:19 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: all source is in svn | 17:19 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: afaik | 17:19 |
| Jaffa | Anyone want to buy a 9 year old Ford Focus? http://bleb.org/photos/show.html?id=X9eGeYK ;-) | 17:20 |
| RST38h | Hey, the steering wheel is WRONG! | 17:20 |
| lcuk | johnx, well it wouldnt be competing - its open source, we have most of the os built now and people are kinda happy with it, if momentum builds we can give people that choice between a more standard OS and the (as I think it will be) user friendly bouncy apps (ala clutterified) | 17:20 |
| johnx | RST38h, look right to me *shrugs* | 17:21 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: :) | 17:21 |
| lcuk | the extra power of the n900 WILL give it a real snappy feel and what people have been trying to do all year (running desktop apps) will come through quite easily | 17:21 |
| RST38h | johnx: yours is supposed to have a little extra mirror though =) | 17:21 |
| johnx | only SUVs AFAIK | 17:22 |
| johnx | though a focus is kind of big for this country :) | 17:22 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, :D am i advanced? | 17:22 |
| lcuk | ummm lead | 17:22 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: the marketing guy said you were :P | 17:23 |
| RST38h | lcuk: I wouldn't be so expectant about that "real snappy feel" | 17:24 |
| johnx | well they'll have plenty of power to play with for sure | 17:25 |
| johnx | and ya'know a decent *working* bus to connect their LCD to | 17:25 |
| * Stskeeps has worries over gfx taking it out on battery power, but.. :P | 17:25 | |
| lcuk | i would, not only the extra actual horsepower, but the fact it wont have a backwards rgb framebuffer | 17:25 |
| * RST38h expects the end result to be pretty usable but probably not as snappy and fluid as everybody thinks | 17:26 | |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, i saw the nice fast 3d ui (which still seems somewhat unresponsive) and instantly thought: unintuitive but pretty and a mega battery killer | 17:26 |
| RST38h | With main source of lag still being the Web (CSS rendering, JS, and Flash) | 17:27 |
| lcuk | why | 17:27 |
| GAN800 | RST38h, have you played with OMAP3 yet? | 17:27 |
| RST38h | GAN: Nope, didn't have a chance yet | 17:28 |
| GAN800 | Somebody ship him a Beagle | 17:28 |
| RST38h | Seen the videos though (the ones discussed at itt) | 17:28 |
| RST38h | GAN: For the last 2 weeks, I am trying to wrestle an STMP37xx board from the local customs | 17:28 |
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| Stskeeps | you were in russia or how was it, RST38h? | 17:29 |
| lcuk | GAN800, a beagle really isnt good, its a circuit board with no onboard os, you have to become a ninja to install and test on it | 17:29 |
| RST38h | GAN: So, my guess is, it will never make it here | 17:29 |
| RST38h | Sts: Still am, right now | 17:29 |
| lcuk | did you ever get yours working ? | 17:29 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: ah - then no chance of beagleboard "us export restrictions" | 17:29 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 17:29 |
| Stskeeps | (saw someone have that problem) | 17:29 |
| lcuk | yesterday | 17:30 |
| lcuk | in here | 17:30 |
| Stskeeps | .. yeah, possibly | 17:30 |
| GAN800 | lcuk, I'm quite ceryain RST38h has experience with circuit boards. :) | 17:30 |
| RST38h | Sts: Oh, I will just claim my appartment to be a US territory then :) | 17:30 |
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| GAN800 | lcuk, just because the touchscreen is all of YOUR world doesn't mean it's all if everybody else's too. ;) | 17:30 |
| johnx | there are machines that come with OSes? I thought it was just a demo app... | 17:31 |
| GAN800 | Anyway, Angstrom's significantly easier to get going than it was a few months ago. | 17:31 |
| RST38h | johnx: A lot of these kits come with Linux or WinCE | 17:31 |
| johnx | RST38h, right but I thought it was some kind of test to make sure it works | 17:32 |
| lcuk | no, but you gotta admit the lack of anything is a bit bothersome, its like ordering fish and chips and getting a potato and a fishing rod | 17:32 |
| johnx | like picture frames the come with picture of someone else's baby | 17:32 |
| RST38h | johnx: Depends. The NXC board has fully functional Linux with X11, XFCE, and Xine | 17:32 |
| * johnx 's english fails tonight | 17:32 | |
| GAN800 | lcuk, depends on the person. :) | 17:33 |
| RST38h | WinCE, by definition, should boot to the win95-like desktop too | 17:33 |
| lcuk | of course gan, but im in the resteraunt to eat, i pay people in the kitchen to make my food | 17:34 |
| lcuk | speaking of that, i gotta pick up some bacon | 17:34 |
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| lcuk | bbl | 17:34 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Sure you are not paying them not to poison you? =) | 17:34 |
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| GAN800 | lcuk, then clearly a Beagle is not the right device for you. ;) | 17:34 |
| johnx | ever go to someplace with a salad bar? :) | 17:34 |
| GAN800 | I hear they have bacon bits there. | 17:35 |
| RST38h | [innocently smiling] 2 strips of bacon a day raise your colon cancer chances by 65% | 17:37 |
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| GAN800 | Ah, percentages | 17:38 |
| fade2grey | perv | 17:38 |
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| slonopotamus | i was me. with 'us export' and missile strike | 17:47 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 17:48 |
| johnx | you do realize that the FBI hangs out on IRC and is very worried by the things you say, right? :) | 17:49 |
| slonopotamus | no fbi here | 17:50 |
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| slonopotamus | now definitely no. | 17:53 |
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| slonopotamus | hm ;) | 17:54 |
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| lcuk | my bacon intake is not as great as you lot would appear to have me pegged as | 17:54 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | lies! | 17:55 |
| lcuk | i eat 2 or maybe 3 lbs of bacon a day | 17:55 |
| lcuk | ummm rashers ;) | 17:55 |
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| slonopotamus | qemu doesn't compile with gcc 4. stupid. | 17:57 |
| slonopotamus | btw | 17:58 |
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| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, did i understand you correct, you abandoned deblet? | 18:00 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: Mer certainly has more potential | 18:02 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, i see | 18:03 |
| Stskeeps | and i kept on hitting the power consumption problem with "normal" linux | 18:03 |
| slonopotamus | mer, moblin, ubuntu mobile, maemo... | 18:03 |
| Stskeeps | while it may be nice to have gentoo, debian, ubuntu, .. fedora, on tablets, they need special flavoring to be power saving | 18:03 |
| Stskeeps | and as i see it, maemo does it the right way | 18:03 |
| Stskeeps | not even sure how mobil does it | 18:04 |
| Stskeeps | moblin | 18:04 |
| johnx | probably be sleeping the device instead of real standby | 18:04 |
| Stskeeps | mm | 18:04 |
| GAN800 | Stupid Atom | 18:04 |
| slonopotamus | what do you mean by 'sleeping'? | 18:05 |
| johnx | I mean ACPI S3 | 18:05 |
| johnx | "suspend to RAM" | 18:05 |
| slonopotamus | crazy thing, btw ;) | 18:06 |
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| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: which is why i think it may be the time to concentrate efforts, and do it in a way that would satisfy most users/power users of the tablets | 18:07 |
| RST38h | Moblin probably tries HALTing CPU as much as possible | 18:08 |
| RST38h | i.e. same as Maemo, I think | 18:08 |
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| Stskeeps | moblin is kinda like maemo i guess | 18:09 |
| johnx | yeah, but intel CPU/chipsets don't get to quite as low of a power state, do they? | 18:09 |
| slonopotamus | what about tickless kernel? | 18:09 |
| slonopotamus | is it used? | 18:09 |
| Stskeeps | well, hildonish | 18:09 |
| johnx | tickless doesn't do that much, does it? | 18:09 |
| slonopotamus | intel chipsets are very power-hungry | 18:10 |
| GAN800 | Maemo's been tickless for a whilr. | 18:10 |
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| t_s_o | hmm, how compatible with existing maemo will mer be? | 18:10 |
| slonopotamus | GAN800, but stopped? | 18:11 |
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| Stskeeps | t_s_o: very close, i hope | 18:11 |
| t_s_o | so one can expect most apps that work in maemo to work in mer? | 18:11 |
| Stskeeps | we use same GTK, hildon, so | 18:12 |
| Stskeeps | some things may be adjusted for abstracting the HW away | 18:12 |
| t_s_o | not that hard given that most of the stuff im using right now is either "ripped" from debian or python based ;) | 18:12 |
| derf | I would love it if maemo supported suspend-to-RAM out of the box. | 18:12 |
| GAN800 | The watchdog is the killer | 18:12 |
| RST38h | johnx: Correct. So far, they don't power down as deeply as ARM chips | 18:13 |
| GAN800 | ideally, though, the powersaving should be working well enough that it isn't needed. | 18:13 |
| Stskeeps | GAN800: i had an interesting reaction from my tablet with s2ram, - wd may not be active when in deep sleep | 18:13 |
| Stskeeps | as far as i could see what the tablet started up and such | 18:13 |
| Stskeeps | and OHM will hopefully aid all of this :P | 18:13 |
| slonopotamus | why do you want s2ram? | 18:14 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: sometimes i just want my device to sleep very deepily without power usage, but not have to reboot | 18:14 |
| GAN800 | OMAP3 is pretty much off at idle, so Intel's got a ways to go to match that. ;) | 18:14 |
| Stskeeps | +much | 18:14 |
| derf | s/sometimes/often | 18:15 |
| derf | With s2ram I'd have to charge it maybe once a week. | 18:15 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, n800 may live for a week if not touched. isn't it enough? | 18:15 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: yeah, but a n800 can live for 30 days on s2ram :P | 18:15 |
| Stskeeps | (at least) | 18:16 |
| GAN800 | Stskeeps, just idle too | 18:16 |
| GAN800 | Ask fanoush | 18:16 |
| Meiz_n810 | We will get canola to mer! will we? jaunty uses armel, so it can be installed with no tricks? | 18:16 |
| Stskeeps | k | 18:16 |
| slonopotamus | why not s2disk if you're not going to touch it for a monnth? | 18:16 |
| Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: when canola is OSS i guess | 18:16 |
| johnx | Meiz_n810, it's going open source soon | 18:16 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: i've yet to see a s2disk working on tablet :P | 18:16 |
| derf | slonopotamus: Because you want to be able to take it out and have it "just work" in seconds. | 18:17 |
| slonopotamus | Stskeeps, what makes it impossible? | 18:17 |
| derf | And in my experience n8x0 is lucky to make two days without charging. | 18:17 |
| Meiz_n810 | Stskeeps: if its depends are open source...? | 18:17 |
| slonopotamus | derf, 128mb can be read very fast from disk | 18:17 |
| RST38h | 2-3 days here | 18:17 |
| derf | slonopotamus: Too bad there's no disk, but only flash. | 18:17 |
| Meiz_n810 | ok canola is not that awesome... | 18:17 |
| t_s_o | anyways, would have been fun to see a diablo like, but without the odd nokia closed source daemon or app... | 18:18 |
| derf | 6 MB/s means at least 21s. | 18:18 |
| johnx | Meiz_n810, yes, we will see canola on lots of things | 18:18 |
| Meiz_n810 | :) | 18:18 |
| derf | And that's if it can actually run the card at peak bandwidth. | 18:18 |
| johnx | possibly even some things that aren't strictly maemo :) | 18:18 |
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| t_s_o | heh, now i can retire homefreespace | 18:19 |
| t_s_o | err, homediskfree :P | 18:19 |
| slonopotamus | derf, what's bad with flash? | 18:20 |
| derf | As I said, most cards are limited to 6 MB/s. | 18:20 |
| slonopotamus | uh??? | 18:20 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, run into any problems with libtool while building in jaunty? | 18:21 |
| t_s_o | freakin forum invasion bots... | 18:21 |
| slonopotamus | i get 50mbps here on dd if=/big/file/on/card of=/dev/zero | 18:21 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: not directly no | 18:21 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: how come you ask? | 18:22 |
| Jaffa | Canola's been going open source "soon" for nearly 3 months now. Almost time to call vapourware :-( | 18:22 |
| johnx | having issues building gtk | 18:22 |
| derf | Which is 6.25 MB/s? | 18:22 |
| GAN800 | Jaffa, hardly | 18:22 |
| johnx | Jaffa, I predict progress soon :) I'll bet you a beer it's out as OSS before the new year, which suits me just fine | 18:22 |
| lcuk | hom0.0001 libraries of congress / fortnight | 18:23 |
| slonopotamus | correction: 50MB/s | 18:23 |
| GAN800 | You do know why it's delayed, right? | 18:23 |
| lcuk | -hom | 18:23 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: bzr export gtk+ lp:~carsten-munk/m-r/gtk+ | 18:23 |
| johnx | slonopotamus, there are no SD cards that fast. you sure it's not cached? | 18:23 |
| slonopotamus | hm | 18:23 |
| Stskeeps | https://code.launchpad.net/~carsten-munk/m-r/gtk+ | 18:23 |
| johnx | did you modify it much? | 18:23 |
| Stskeeps | fair bit, look at changelog on second url | 18:23 |
| GAN800 | johnx, you'll lose that bet. | 18:23 |
| slonopotamus | i used modified sdhc kernel | 18:24 |
| Jaffa | GAN800: nope, why? | 18:24 |
| johnx | GAN800, shipping will kill him :) | 18:24 |
| slonopotamus | will need to recheck. tested on 1gb file, too big to be cached. | 18:24 |
| johnx | 50MB/s is kind of incredible even with a fast SDHC card on a desktop machine | 18:24 |
| GAN800 | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=242479&postcount=8 | 18:25 |
| GAN800 | Everybody read that before you talk Canola. ;) | 18:25 |
| GAN800 | Jaffa, your fellow council member is in charge of getting the source out there, so I recommend talking to him. :P | 18:26 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint#Porting_a_Maemo_package_to_Mer btw (and the next comment, - ssh server is trac.tspre.org is usually) | 18:26 |
| konttori_ | SD card speeds: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Digital_card | 18:26 |
| Jaffa | GAN800 : I'll try to remember. that doesn't /really/ explain why there's no source yet, just why there's no latest beta. | 18:26 |
| konttori_ | Only the slowest available cards have 4.8 MB/s | 18:26 |
| slonopotamus | 1 sec | 18:27 |
| konttori_ | most reach the 200x -> 30 MB/s speeds | 18:27 |
| GAN800 | Jaffa, the source is dependent on getting b10 out the door. | 18:27 |
| GAN800 | I don't think it'll be too long after the new year anyway. | 18:27 |
| konttori_ | which brings me to question that is there an easy kernel fix for diablo to get faster mmc perf? | 18:28 |
| qwerty12 | yes, 48mhz mode | 18:28 |
| GAN800 | outpo.st/rotate | 18:28 |
| qwerty12 | unsupported by ti though# | 18:28 |
| derf | konttori_: Those are also all maximums. | 18:28 |
| lcuk | and not supported by all cards | 18:28 |
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| konttori_ | sure, but most cards are over 133x these days | 18:29 |
| konttori_ | does the rotate support come with also the 48 MHz mode? | 18:29 |
| konttori_ | cool if it does. | 18:29 |
| konttori_ | "SDHC cards have fixed sector size of 512 bytes." | 18:30 |
| konttori_ | I didn't know that | 18:30 |
| slonopotamus | you're still waiting? good, will bench now | 18:32 |
| woglinde | re | 18:33 |
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| slonopotamus | so | 18:34 |
| slonopotamus | 512k blocks | 18:35 |
| Stskeeps | slonopotamus: be aware of cache hits btw, dd isn't a safe benchmark in that aspect | 18:35 |
| johnx | but on a 1GB file? | 18:35 |
| johnx | should average out pretty quick | 18:36 |
| slonopotamus | first, writing. | 18:37 |
| slonopotamus | time dd if=/dev/zero of=/floppy/foo count=2048000 | 18:37 |
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| slonopotamus | hmm. seeing 100% cpu load | 18:38 |
| derf | That's fairly typical for writing. | 18:38 |
| slonopotamus | why? | 18:38 |
| RST38h | because it is working | 18:38 |
| derf | Because good is dumb. | 18:39 |
| slonopotamus | i thought it will i/o wait | 18:39 |
| RST38h | filling the buffer, sending write command, waiting for the flash to become ready again | 18:39 |
| slonopotamus | exactly | 18:39 |
| johnx | what's mounted on /floppy? | 18:39 |
| slonopotamus | waiting | 18:39 |
| johnx | is this just internal flash? | 18:39 |
| johnx | if so then it's spending lots of time on jffs2 compression | 18:40 |
| Stskeeps | .. are we speaking of internal SD or internal flash? | 18:40 |
| slonopotamus | i mount /dev/mmcblk0p2 there | 18:40 |
| Stskeeps | ah, phew | 18:40 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:40 |
| slonopotamus | sd, of cource | 18:40 |
| slonopotamus | still running... | 18:40 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: next Mer target.. - the iphone | 18:40 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:40 |
| Stskeeps | (linux has just been booted) | 18:40 |
| johnx | heh | 18:40 |
| johnx | I'm not touchin' that with a 10ft pole | 18:41 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 18:41 |
| Stskeeps | me neither | 18:41 |
| Stskeeps | heh. "the Dev Team is hoping to run Google's equally Linux-based but more complete Android mobile operating system on the iPhone and is searching for programmers to help with the project." | 18:41 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 18:41 |
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| Meiz_n810 | just looked at "windows mobile emulator" thread in itT | 18:42 |
| Meiz_n810 | so funny! | 18:42 |
| johnx | it's hard enough making linux work on something that started with it in the first place | 18:42 |
| slonopotamus | http://rafb.net/p/r6HBbp42.html | 18:43 |
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| t_s_o | johnx: do not stop people from trying, again and again... | 18:43 |
| woglinde | Stskeeps yes I read that too | 18:43 |
| Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: i wouldn't mind a simple PIM and sync like in pocket pc 2002 really | 18:43 |
| johnx | t_s_o, oh I won't. I'll watch from the sidelines, just like I do when people go base jumping or have bare knuckle boxing matches | 18:44 |
| Meiz_n810 | Stskeeps: i don't think WinMo is unusable, but i laughed for answers to that questition. | 18:45 |
| slonopotamus | anyone can calculate? ;) | 18:45 |
| Meiz_n810 | Stskeeps: like "give me a hammer" | 18:46 |
| johnx | like 4.1MB/s ? | 18:46 |
| t_s_o | johnx: i didnt say i would try either. especially not on something like the iphone ;) | 18:47 |
| slonopotamus | ahha | 18:47 |
| johnx | t_s_o, but I won't try and stop them either :) | 18:47 |
| slonopotamus | now, reading | 18:47 |
| slonopotamus | hmm | 18:48 |
| slonopotamus | i don't have sdhc kernel now | 18:48 |
| derf | For read speeds I get about 8 MB/s (for /media/mmc2/Maps/GStreet.db, 1.2 GB). | 18:48 |
| slonopotamus | stock diablo ine | 18:49 |
| slonopotamus | one | 18:49 |
| derf | That was stock Chinook. | 18:49 |
| RST38h | Sts: why not just run MacOS on the tablets? =) | 18:49 |
| slonopotamus | http://rafb.net/p/XeBJNR27.html | 18:50 |
| johnx | 4.7 MB/s ? | 18:51 |
| slonopotamus | yep | 18:51 |
| johnx | <- might not be safe to trust him with math right now | 18:51 |
| derf | So, in other words, nowhere near 50 MB/s. | 18:51 |
| RST38h | yep | 18:51 |
| slonopotamus | i was wrong | 18:52 |
| slonopotamus | sorry | 18:52 |
| slonopotamus | near 50 mbps | 18:52 |
| slonopotamus | not MB | 18:52 |
| derf | Better to find out among friends. | 18:52 |
| johnx | really easy to lose a 0 here and there | 18:52 |
| slonopotamus | ;) | 18:52 |
| slonopotamus | well, but s2disk doesn't need to read full ram in one moment | 18:53 |
| derf | No, but the system is basically unresponsive until it does. | 18:53 |
| RST38h | you mean, just back up the whole memory to the swap file? | 18:53 |
| RST38h | and then read it as necessary? | 18:54 |
| derf | That's what s2disk is. | 18:54 |
| slonopotamus | yep | 18:54 |
| derf | At least on Linux. | 18:54 |
| RST38h | what does it do with pages that can't be swapped out? | 18:54 |
| slonopotamus | hehe | 18:55 |
| derf | Magic. | 18:55 |
| slonopotamus | yep | 18:55 |
| johnx | if RAM won't fit in swap it dies | 18:55 |
| johnx | maybe it will dump its cache first? | 18:55 |
| derf | Presumably those are owned by some driver, and the driver knows how to suspend itself. | 18:55 |
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| slonopotamus | i use s2disk on my laptop. it really works | 18:55 |
| derf | Yeah, I do, too. But I don't pull my laptop out of my pocket to check a map. | 18:56 |
| slonopotamus | hehe | 18:56 |
| slonopotamus | we were talking about 1 month of not touching your tablet | 18:56 |
| slonopotamus | i'm not sure s2ram makes sence | 18:57 |
| derf | I was talking more along the lines of under 6 hours of use a week. | 18:57 |
| derf | But for me the battery is dead within 2 days. | 18:57 |
| dragorn | s2disk basically operates like swap, so correct, it will dump the cache (or just not write it, since the pages are flagged to not be swapped out. swapping cache is pointless.) | 18:57 |
| slonopotamus | you still need to power ram. you still need to power input devices so you'll know when too wake up | 18:57 |
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| slonopotamus | you still need to power cpu | 18:58 |
| derf | Not hardly. | 18:58 |
| slonopotamus | so... what's the point? | 18:58 |
| dragorn | derf: turn off scanning for networks and/or put it in offline mode | 18:58 |
| dragorn | afaik the tablets don't even s2ram | 18:58 |
| derf | Yes, they do. | 18:58 |
| derf | But only for 64 seconds at a time. | 18:59 |
| dragorn | unless it's been added very recently | 18:59 |
| slonopotamus | main power drainers are high cpu load, screen and wireless | 18:59 |
| derf | I've seen a hacked-up script that does it. | 18:59 |
| dragorn | there is s2r support in there, mostly, if you hack the xml files for the ui to add it to the power list | 18:59 |
| derf | dragorn: Right... I'm saying I want that out of the box. | 18:59 |
| dragorn | derf: that's mike bakers script, he wakes up on a timer because the watchdog trips otherwise | 19:00 |
| dragorn | if i recall | 19:00 |
| slonopotamus | derf, my previous message ^ | 19:00 |
| Meiz_n810 | any idea why i get forbidden on http://code.google.com/p/android-on-n8xx/ | 19:00 |
| derf | dragorn: I know. | 19:00 |
| dragorn | and theres no way to suspend the watchdog | 19:00 |
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| derf | But he did get improved battery life out of it. | 19:00 |
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| slonopotamus | btw, under 100% cpu @400mhz load my n800 survives for only 2 hourns | 19:01 |
| slonopotamus | is it ok? | 19:01 |
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| johnx | sounds about right | 19:01 |
| Stskeeps | dragorn: the thing is, the timer doesn't always wake up for watchdog, according to log | 19:01 |
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| johnx | how old is the battery | 19:01 |
| dragorn | Stskeeps: yup | 19:01 |
| dragorn | Stskeeps: which is probably why he lost interest a few years ago, or at least I haven't heard him talking about his 800 lately | 19:02 |
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| slonopotamus | johnx, bought in february | 19:02 |
| * dragorn will be more interested in the 810 again once the wifi driver replacement is done. | 19:02 | |
| johnx | still probably about right. It was probably sitting on the shelf before that | 19:03 |
| Stskeeps | dragorn: oh, it didn't kill the tablet | 19:03 |
| Stskeeps | dragorn: it actually well behaved | 19:03 |
| dragorn | Stskeeps: didn't say it did | 19:03 |
| Stskeeps | k | 19:03 |
| slonopotamus | and my laptop survives only 40 minutes under full load :( | 19:04 |
| dragorn | but as someone who has also been trying to do stuff with the tablets, once you bang your head against some stupid binary driver bug for a few weeks, you start not caring much | 19:04 |
| slonopotamus | hehe | 19:04 |
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| slonopotamus | stupid binary driver ;) | 19:04 |
| Stskeeps | dragorn: .. which even more justifies why community needs to be more strong in the system base, and not just UI bugs :P | 19:05 |
| dragorn | Stskeeps: which is impossible when nokia can't/won't release the specs | 19:06 |
| slonopotamus | heh | 19:07 |
| Stskeeps | dragorn: nokia's opening up how they can.. that people start seeing it's similar to p54 probably helps | 19:07 |
| slonopotamus | ext3 on sd ddeletes files much faster than ext3 on hd | 19:07 |
| dragorn | Stskeeps: except it has a proprietary calibration system | 19:07 |
| dragorn | Stskeeps: so "being like" a p54 doesn't help much at all | 19:07 |
| dragorn | Stskeeps: yes, nokia is working on some kernel drivers (which I think still plan to have a binary userspace to calibrate), which is an improvement | 19:08 |
| Stskeeps | dragorn: if you observe stlc45xx-devel, a guy has actually gotten it | 19:08 |
| Stskeeps | the calibration and stuff. if you have some insight, ask him :P | 19:08 |
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| Stskeeps | dragorn: .. didn't see you in here before, - what are your interests on the tablet? | 19:09 |
| dragorn | Stskeeps: yes, someone from nokia is working on the drivers with the goal to include them in the kernel. Of course like all companies seem to like to do, they want to develop them out-of-tree and then bulk merge, and they're ignoring all the owrk done by the community already | 19:09 |
| dragorn | and their USB is still broken | 19:10 |
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| Stskeeps | in terms of? | 19:12 |
| Stskeeps | (USB) | 19:12 |
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| dragorn | HID reads tend to lock the system until the watchdog triggers | 19:13 |
| dragorn | which makes it useless to support usb devices on | 19:13 |
| soap | a ha! | 19:13 |
| dragorn | seems to be a long-standing (years) bug in the cx usb host mode drivers | 19:14 |
| dragorn | works about 70% of the time | 19:14 |
| soap | Claws mail sets the email alert if IT is the first client to receive an IMAP message. If my desktop client with IMAP "push" is on CLAWS sees it as an unread message, but not a "new" one and doesn't set the alert. | 19:14 |
| dragorn | something in the dma mapping for bulk io reads goes wonky | 19:14 |
| soap | I wish it would set the light on every new-to-it message. | 19:15 |
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| * slonopotamus broke his chair :( | 19:19 | |
| * johnx leans his chair backwards on two legs, asks for trouble | 19:20 | |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: any comments on DSME draft on blueprint, btw? | 19:24 |
| johnx | would we really have DSME and OHM? | 19:25 |
| Stskeeps | DSME is trivial to reimplement anyway | 19:28 |
| Stskeeps | and that's my impression from talking to quim, so | 19:28 |
| Stskeeps | that DSME and OHM will come out | 19:29 |
| johnx | hmm? he thinks DSME and OHM will be side by side? | 19:29 |
| Stskeeps | well, DSME has been promised to be open sourced, and OHM will come along too | 19:30 |
| johnx | I'd still like to see the Fremantle architecture before worrying about it | 19:31 |
| johnx | but as always, it's your time to spend | 19:31 |
| johnx | I'm finally getting into the bzr flow. I'll try and get hildon-desktop put together in a sane way | 19:31 |
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| Stskeeps | k | 19:34 |
| Stskeeps | true, december will bring gifts | 19:35 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:35 |
| Stskeeps | so you think we should focus on the rootfs part for now? | 19:37 |
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| slonopotamus | giftfs ;) | 19:38 |
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| johnx | well, that's actually an interesting thought: what can we work on that won't be completely changed once the alpha SDK is out? | 19:39 |
| Stskeeps | infrastructure, proof of concepts | 19:40 |
| Stskeeps | i guess | 19:40 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:40 |
| Stskeeps | .. concepts | 19:40 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: that game looks like a pure time waster | 19:40 |
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| johnx | from the lack of updates on the public hildon-1 I'd have to assume it's undergoing some big changes internally | 19:40 |
| Stskeeps | *nod* | 19:41 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, hehe | 19:41 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: think we'll just get hildon going, if anything, we can strive towards a diablo UI | 19:41 |
| johnx | basic functionality and some day-to-day must haves? | 19:42 |
| johnx | while attempting not to sink too much time into things likely to change? | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | yeah i guess | 19:42 |
| johnx | heh, don't look at me :P | 19:42 |
| johnx | you have more time into this than me | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | hehe, if i don't discuss it i go off some tangent ;) | 19:42 |
| lcuk | oooh, shiny | 19:43 |
| johnx | just as long as you take what I say as "enlightened self-interest" | 19:43 |
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| johnx | anyways, I'm off to bed for now. I've got a noopt build of gtk+ to leave overnight. | 19:49 |
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| * lcuk boogies to codem onkey | 20:26 | |
| lcuk | codemonkey | 20:26 |
| * Stskeeps ponders what to do tonight | 20:30 | |
| lcuk | get raving drunk, find anything which sounds cool, push it into -devel, then forward it into extras "it compiles, ship it" | 20:31 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 20:31 |
| lcuk | ive almost finished making an entirely stroke based font :) | 20:32 |
| GAN800 | lol | 20:33 |
| lcuk | its been a good experience so far, learning how to handle variations and editing a group of related items | 20:33 |
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| GAN800 | Stskeeps, learn GTK and code up a bootmenu control panel? ;) | 20:34 |
| linuxber | hello im wring a bash script for my n810 and the clear and select binnarys arent present any tips on getting around this? | 20:34 |
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| lcuk | linuxber, i dont know much about scripting, but you could try to find alternatives | 20:37 |
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| Stskeeps | GAN800: naah. :P | 20:40 |
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| linuxber | hmhmhmh | 20:40 |
| linuxber | im just trying to use http://tldp.org/HOWTO/Bash-Prog-Intro-HOWTO-9.html#ss9.1 | 20:41 |
| GAN800 | Stskeeps, chicken. :P | 20:42 |
| johnx | linuxber, did you already install bash on the tablet? | 20:43 |
| johnx | <- goes back to bed | 20:43 |
| lcuk | lol | 20:44 |
| linuxber | Johnx, it errored when i tryed to install | 20:44 |
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| linuxber | hmhm | 20:47 |
| Stskeeps | clear isnt avail? :P | 20:48 |
| * Stskeeps uses that all the time, i think | 20:48 | |
| linuxber | no =[ | 20:48 |
| linuxber | i know with the updated osso-xterm theres an option to clear and reset | 20:49 |
| lcuk | i couldnt clear in the one script i made, so i replaced it with echo;echo;echo;echo; | 20:50 |
| * lcuk never thought it about it from that day to this | 20:50 | |
| inz | echo -e '\e[2J\e[H' | 20:52 |
| inz | ;) | 20:52 |
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| linuxber | ahh | 20:54 |
| linuxber | ./clear | 20:54 |
| linuxber | \e[2J\e[H | 20:54 |
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| inz | Hmm, of course busybox echo doesn't really support -e | 20:59 |
| inz | So I guess you'll need to use ctrl+v-esc instead | 20:59 |
| inz | Nor does it support ctlr+v | 21:00 |
| inz | Damn ;) | 21:00 |
| inz | Luckily vi does | 21:00 |
| qwerty12_N800 | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=18126 | 21:02 |
| linuxber | thanks | 21:04 |
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| linuxber | woot and it works thanks qwert12 | 21:09 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | np :) | 21:09 |
| linuxber | now about the selcet | 21:10 |
| linuxber | now about the selcet option in my script | 21:10 |
| linuxber | will be done another day | 21:10 |
| linuxber | thanks again qwerty12 youv done alots of good work on the internettablettalk forums | 21:11 |
| qwerty12_N800 | :) | 21:12 |
| qwerty12_N800 | stop, you're making me blush :P | 21:13 |
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| Stskeeps | "Lower startup progress bar animation duration to 11s" | 21:21 |
| Stskeeps | hmm :P | 21:21 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, they could achieve that quite easily by moving stuff outside the display period ;) | 21:22 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, but it usually adds up with how fast the system boots | 21:23 |
| lcuk | shhhh but the animation will be under 11seconds | 21:23 |
| Stskeeps | RX-34 was n800, RX-44 was n810, RX-48 was n810w right? | 21:24 |
| Stskeeps | so i guess RX-51 is n900 :P | 21:24 |
| lcuk | maybe, | 21:24 |
| lcuk | but thats only 3 revisions of hardware up | 21:25 |
| lcuk | that is of course if the rx number implies hardware test model | 21:25 |
| slonopotamus | what the heck is rx? | 21:25 |
| lcuk | hardware model identifier | 21:26 |
| Stskeeps | one thing though, nokia is a master of keeping their cards close :P | 21:29 |
| qwerty12_N800 | well, until the device in question is released... | 21:30 |
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| lcuk | even then :P :D | 21:31 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, come on, you've seen my collection of pdf's :p | 21:32 |
| qwerty12_N800 | -' | 21:32 |
| lcuk | yes, what has been seen cannot be unseen and all that | 21:32 |
| lcuk | MY EYES, THE GOGGLES, THEY DO NOTHING! | 21:33 |
| * slonopotamus hates bluetooth download popup | 21:33 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | lol | 21:33 |
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| slonopotamus | there are lots of people here. they all sit and say nothing. that scares me. maybe they're from fbi? | 21:34 |
| lcuk | they are all actively integrating our conversations into the next device | 21:36 |
| lcuk | DON'T FORGET THE LASER AND SHARK ATTACHMENT | 21:36 |
| * lcuk should stop shouting | 21:36 | |
| slonopotamus | o_O | 21:37 |
| slonopotamus | and blackjack, please | 21:37 |
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| lcuk | forget the blackjack | 21:37 |
| slonopotamus | :( | 21:37 |
| lcuk | you forgot to ask for hookers | 21:38 |
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| lcuk | i can actually see some random nokian sat in his lab with an n900 and a rasher of bacon trying to work out how to incorporate it | 21:38 |
| slonopotamus | and blackjack with hookers, please | 21:38 |
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| slonopotamus | hehe | 21:40 |
| lcuk | ok serious question, i have a completely dynamic variable sized font face. i have an arbritary display area allocated to render a string, should i simply always render the font as large as possible within the dimensions available? (the alternative to to also record the displayed size and a load of other dpi related stuff) | 21:42 |
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| GAN800 | RX-51 is confirmed? | 21:45 |
| GAN800 | Well, coroberated. :P | 21:46 |
| Stskeeps | GAN800: it's in a boot script | 21:47 |
| Stskeeps | where it checks for internal MMC existence | 21:47 |
| Stskeeps | RX-34, RX-44, RX-48 and now RX-51 | 21:47 |
| GAN800 | Must be then | 21:47 |
| * GAN800 spazzes as microb tops itself while I'm typing. | 21:47 | |
| Stskeeps | i've been trawling commits out of boredom | 21:47 |
| GAN800 | 3 times! | 21:48 |
| Stskeeps | i would kill for a microb replacement, like, using webkit or something | 21:48 |
| Stskeeps | UI is fine and integrated, but engine.. | 21:48 |
| GAN800 | Now I can stop calling it the N900 anyway | 21:48 |
| Pavlov | lol | 21:48 |
| GAN800 | If it would just stop topping itself | 21:49 |
| GAN800 | Does Fennec top three times for every freaking page load? | 21:49 |
| Pavlov | top? | 21:49 |
| GAN800 | What an attention whore | 21:49 |
| GAN800 | Steal focus | 21:50 |
| Pavlov | mm, it shouldn't | 21:50 |
| GAN800 | Move to the front | 21:50 |
| Pavlov | but not sure | 21:50 |
| GAN800 | 'Hey, I'm trying to type on IRC--NOOO! look at meee!' | 21:50 |
| Pavlov | a2pre is looking pretty good | 21:50 |
| GAN800 | Extras? :p | 21:52 |
| Stskeeps | GAN800: i have to punch mauku a couple of times to make it keep down :P | 21:52 |
| Pavlov | GAN800: it'll be in extras when it comes out | 21:52 |
| GAN800 | Pavlov, er, a2 or 1.0? | 21:54 |
| * Stskeeps still thinks there should be OS support for developer PPA's or something | 21:55 | |
| Stskeeps | so it goes ppa -> extras-devel -> extras | 21:55 |
| GAN800 | Stskeeps, propose it in a wiki page and hit up -developers. | 21:55 |
| GAN800 | Give you something to do if you're bored. | 21:56 |
| Stskeeps | mm | 21:56 |
| Stskeeps | i'm reading up on an ARG i haven't caught up on since monday since gf has been home | 21:56 |
| Stskeeps | will add the PPA idea to my ottodo | 21:56 |
| Pavlov | GAN800: a2 | 21:57 |
| GAN800 | Pavlov, ah, excellent! Thanks! :) | 21:57 |
| Pavlov | we've got most perf problems fixed | 21:57 |
| Pavlov | so should be good to push up there | 21:57 |
| Pavlov | (still room for improvement, but it is quite usable) | 21:57 |
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| Pavlov | i'll look in to that focus thing | 21:58 |
| Pavlov | dunno what would be causing that | 21:58 |
| GAN800 | Apparently it's also a bug in Firefox on the desktop | 22:06 |
| GAN800 | it's just way more irritating in Matchbox | 22:06 |
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| GAN800 | Pavlov, https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3557 | 22:08 |
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| slonopotamus | gl_cv_func_wcwidth_works=yes | 22:23 |
| RST38h | GAN: How is black friday? | 22:23 |
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| GAN800 | RST38h, we went to Home Depot and got some cheap plants. :p | 22:33 |
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| RST38h | Noo gaaagdets? =) | 22:44 |
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| woglinde | re | 22:47 |
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| hung_andrew | Hello all! pls, help me. I am trying to install maemo SDK 4.1.1. I am on step 1: installing 4.1.1 scratchbox via installer script. Script Already downloaded all tgz`s and unpacked them. Now I have a problem: after I am trying to command Scratchbox login... yesScratchbox login executable... noE: Scratchbox login found but not executable by user.E: Please check that user is member of the group specified in scratchboxE: installation (default 'sbox').E: Also | 22:54 |
| hung_andrew | ding group membership.[andrey@localhost Desktop]$ | 22:54 |
| woglinde | ??? | 22:54 |
| woglinde | id | 22:54 |
| GAN800 | RST38h, nah, 14k to fix the pool and patio was enough ;) | 22:54 |
| woglinde | gives you in which groups you are | 22:54 |
| hung_andrew | I cannot run sdk installer script after that | 22:55 |
| woglinde | hung_andrew what is the output of the commad 'id' | 22:56 |
| woglinde | without the ' | 22:56 |
| hung_andrew | uid=500(andrey) gid=500(andrey) группы=10(wheel),19(proc),22(cdrom),71(floppy),80(cdwriter),81(audio),83(radio),110(xgrp),500(andrey),501(camera),502(scanner) | 22:56 |
| hung_andrew | no group sbox you mean? | 22:56 |
| woglinde | right | 22:56 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hung_andrew, sudo /scratchbox/sbin/sbox_adduser andrey yes | 22:57 |
| woglinde | after editing /etc/goup you have to login new | 22:57 |
| woglinde | qwerty ah hm | 22:57 |
| hung_andrew | oh. thanks. A am not expirienced user with linux yet | 22:57 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | after running sbox_adduser, logout and then login | 22:58 |
| woglinde | qwerty so scratchbox/sbin/sbox_adduser edits the host /etc/group ? | 23:00 |
| hung_andrew | /etc/group or ***/scratchbox/etc/group? | 23:00 |
| qwerty12_N800 | woglinde, think so. at least ubuntu's user management tool showed me as belonging to sbox | 23:00 |
| woglinde | qerty okay | 23:00 |
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