IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2008-11-26

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l7anyone know how to disable that bar with the letters "abc" that pops up at the bottom of the screen?00:07
l7what is that thing called anyway?00:07
l7it seems semi useful for the internet search bar, but it's useless in a terminal00:08
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ShadowJK_shift-space on n81000:12
ShadowJK_has some weird side-effects, iirc, but try it00:12
l7hrm, it must only work on the n810's hardware keyboard00:13
l7weird now it's disabled00:13
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l7what is that bar called anyway?00:14
l7interesting the bar doesn't close itself while you're in an app00:15
l7but it disappears after you switch apps00:15
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GAN800it's the autocomplete bar00:17
GAN800Except for hardware keyboards00:17
GAN800and it's also got to have the least predictable behavior ever.00:18
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Ducky_743Is Penguinbait on?00:31
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l7yeah, the autocomplete bar behaves very unpredictably00:36
l7i'm glad i can at least close the darned thing now00:37
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pupnikdo smart people have an obligation to procreate?00:46
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johnxpupnik, well people who think they are smart certainly seem to procreate00:57
pupniki'd like the universe to become a deeper fractal within the boundaries of time, johnx00:57
johnxI'm not entirely sure what you mean by that ;-_-00:58
pupnikour perception is a reflection of what is00:58
pupnikfractals are kind of a metaphor for that00:58
pupnikmore intelligent beings would be a deeper reflection/understanding of 'what is'00:59
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pupnikit would be... a deeper reflection00:59
pupniki'd consider that to be a flower00:59
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l7pupnik: have you read the Amber Chronicles?01:02
pupnikmaybe we can make AI's that really ... learn01:03
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pupniki'd like to see that before I die01:03
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johnxWell, that sounds like a good excuse to live for quite a while :)01:04
l7this is the second time that alternate universe scenarios have come up lately01:04
johnxI know I plan to01:04
pupnikhave you ever looked at insects navigating their environment johnx ?01:05
pupnikand imagined programming that behavior?01:05
johnxit's probably rather simple01:05
pupniknot easy.  dealt with game AI before.01:05
pupnikpathfinding etc...01:06
johnxI did, but only in 2-space01:06
johnxI think genetic algorithms are going to play a huge part of any advance in AI01:06
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johnxI worry that we're getting close to inherent complexity limits in terms of what a single person can fit in their own brain01:07
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pupniki am sure of it johnx01:14
pupniki've read so much, that i can't remember.  if i could apply my logic to a vastly greater body of knowledge, i'd be able to do a lot more01:14
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jmspeexAnyone knows what's the max side of the SD card that the N800 takes?02:45
jmspeex(internal and external)02:46
johnxthe biggest you can buy02:46
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jmspeexjohnx: If I stick a 32 GB card, it'll work fine? (I heard some reports saying there was a max size, that's why I'm asking)02:55
johnxthe max size is 64GB right now, limited by current standards in software02:55
johnxthe max size will likely be 2048GB with a simple driver upgrade02:55
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johnxerrr...maybe 32GB instead of 64GB02:56
johnxsuffice to say that anything labeled "SDHC" will work fine02:56
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jmspeexjohnx: Just making sure, it's not mini SD or micro SD, right?03:01
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johnxnormal sd, mini and micro are just different plastic cases for the same thing03:02
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* rm_you waves at johnx03:08
johnxhey rm_you03:08
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_786soulI've been following the thread on ITT forums but anyone know if kismet is stable for n810? Or are there still troubles with using wirelesstools to bring the device up and down to reconnect to APs?07:12
makakI don't know for kismet, but there is a package of aircrack-ng that works pretty well07:13
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_786soulYeah I've got aircrack already and unfortunately an older version of nmap (3.95) i gota find an updated repository07:13
l7hmm, is there a list that coverages most or all of the maemo repos?07:23
johnxI think this does:
johnxbut people should really be using extras or extras-devel these days07:24
_786soulbut would security tool be in those repos?07:26
johnxI don't see why not as long as it's legal in most places07:28
_786souli know I've got maemo extras but that doesn't have anything in it in terms of security auditing etc. How do I add the extras-devel? Is the repos link on maemo site?07:30
_786soulthen I'll give it a search to see what's in it07:30
infoboti heard extras is
johnxinfo there ^ for extras and extras-devel07:31
_786soulThnx! I'll give that a run and see what crops up07:31
johnxthey might not be there...but they if they aren't someone should add them :)07:31
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_786soullol Yeah. I would add what I've already got. But a lot of it is outdated. I was on and got some repos links and mulliner's repos was all I could find with what I needed07:33
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_786soulNope there's no kismet in any of those repos with maemo extras. I guess I'll have to fiddle with what I found on the forums.07:59
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GeneralAntillesDid get axed?08:25
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johnxheh...well that's not exactly the best sign08:25
GeneralAntillesThe page is still there but doesn't work.08:26
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johnxalso fun: Nokia still links to the old wiki from for linux flashing instructions08:26
johnxwhich would matter if anyone actually ended up at for a search involving the tablets08:27
* GeneralAntilles wants somebody in that position right now.08:29
johnxanother couple months and I'd be comfortable enough to apply08:31
hahlobitwhat debmaster do?08:31
solmumahasounds like a job for mikkov08:35
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johnxhi Meiz_n81008:37
hahlobiti also know one unemployed debian developer might give him the link08:38
l7it's cool that nokia is hiring staff for maemo08:41
l7i've been wondering lately though, what does nokia get out of the tablet stuff and maemo?08:42
GeneralAntillesThey have been for a while. ;)08:42
l7i mean they can't be turning that much of a profit from tablet hardware can they?08:42
johnxI'm sure they're not doing too badly. also it's their R&D playground08:43
GeneralAntillesThe long-term is what they're gunning for.08:43
GeneralAntillesBut, yeah, the tablets actually sell pretty decently considering.08:43
l7yeah, that's what i was thinking too, maemo's a long term R and D thing for their mobile platforms08:43
l7how many tablet units do they move?08:44
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l7i remember i bought mine for 200 dollars last year, which must have been a slim margin for nokia08:44
GeneralAntillesWell, the semi-official numbers we got last July/August were 50-75k 770, and 300k N800.08:44
johnxwas that July 08 or July 07?08:44
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GeneralAntilleser, last year.08:45
johnxso yeah, not that bad :D08:45
GeneralAntillesSo that doesn't include holiday sales or the N810.08:45
l7how about the 810's flavors?08:45
GeneralAntillesI'd bet we're over a million units by now.08:45
GeneralAntillesl7, haven't heard anything about numbers from Nokia since then.08:45
l7i guess that's a decent installed base to keep the platform viable08:46
GeneralAntillesThere's probably some marketing speak factoring into this statement, but they said the 770 heavily outsold their expectations.08:46
l7i just hope maemo doens't go the way of the zaurus08:46
johnxthey're already ensured that they won't08:46
johnxwell, at least not exactly the same way08:46
l7how so?08:47
johnxthere is enough source out there that a third party could make a mostly functional version of OS2008 release08:48
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johnxIIRC, the QTopia->Opie fork with the Zaurus was a result of a closed development process08:48
johnxplus, I think that OS2008 is flexible enough and has enough momentum that the community wouldn't immediately divide and fork if Nokia stopped contributing08:50
infobotjohnx meant: plus, I think that maemo is flexible enough and has enough momentum that the community wouldn't immediately divide and fork if Nokia stopped contributing08:50
l7any idea how long the tablets can be expected to function?08:51
johnxhow long will they physically last?08:51
l7the N800 at least seems really solid for what i paid for it08:52
johnxwell my n800 has been banged around for 1.75 years now08:52
johnxit was a demo/floor model for several months before that08:52
l7dunno if it would be worthwhile to consider getting a used 770 to stream internet radio mostly08:52
johnxnot really08:52
johnxWSoD and all08:52
johnxthe 770 is nice and solid in terms of case, but has a habit of developing a "white screen of death"08:53
l7was that fixed in the 800 and 810?08:53
l7hmm, what caused it?08:53
l7maybe a used N800 would make a better dedicated unit to attach to my stereo08:54
johnxI don't remember what caused it08:54
johnxbut yes, the n800 seems like the most solid08:54
l7two SD slots also seems insanely useful08:55
l7i wonder if nokia will bring that back in the n90008:55
johnxand the amount of potential storage space will just increase over time08:55
johnxI kinda doubt it08:56
johnxit seems like a "because we can" feature, where the next tablet will probably be prioritizing "thin and light"08:56
l7what a shame08:56
GeneralAntillesThe display controller would get overvoltage on boot eventually.08:56
l7could you still SSH in with the display controller dead?08:57
l7i guess reflashing would be hard if you had to click through the initial config screen though08:58
johnxyup, but if you ever had to reflash you'd have to reinstall ssh blind :)08:58
l7i guess you could do it if you had a working tablet to compare08:58
johnxit might still be worth considering, but there are other cheap ARM boards if it's just for a stereo08:58
l7or if you could change the firmware to automatically install SSH08:58
l7hmm, what ARM unit would you pick for that?09:00
johnxwell for $150 a beagleboard would give you lots of options09:01
l7i guess it would partly depend on the price09:01
johnxplug it into your TV too :D09:01
johnxor a Neuros OSD09:01
l7oh yeah, i heard about the neuros09:01
johnxand the nintendo wii is certainly becoming and interesting option :)09:02
l7does the beagleboard include a LCD screen for 150?09:02
johnxnope, but neither does a WSoD 770 :D09:02
l7yeah that would be a bit too good to be true09:03
l7i can't quite imagine using a wii to stream internet radio09:03
l7i guess it's all around the same pricepoint though09:03
johnxeh, you can run linux on it and it has an audio out and a nice remote :)09:03
l7yeah that wiimote is nice09:04
l7i didn't know it ran linux though09:04
johnxwell you can run linux on it09:04
johnxnintendo isn't using linux09:04
hahlobitwhat about linux phones? is freerunner only choiche?09:05
l7how well does it run linux?09:05
l7i guess you could use a linux phone to stream audio, though maybe it's as expensive as getting another tablet09:05
johnxhahlobit, well that and some locked down motorola phones and the t-mobile g109:06
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johnxl7, the support seems pretty good. ->
johnxI have to try it again09:06
l7heh thanks, i think i'm more interested in the wii now :)09:07
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l7eventually i'll have a apartment full of linux devices09:07
johnxno X11 yet it seems09:07
l7is the wiimote working well?09:07
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johnxit's just bluetooth09:08
johnxit's been working for a long time with lots of things09:08
johnxvery fun little device :)09:08
l7hmm, that's neat09:09
l7i wish there was a section on stuff that does not work or that is a work in progress09:09
l7because that's where the cool stuff typically is09:09
l7still, with mplayer, networking and a terminal it can do a decent job at playing internet radio09:10
johnxyeah, kernel fixes just yesterday :)09:10
johnxX11+maemo with a wiimote for the pointer would be kinda interesting, no?09:11
* johnx pictures yet another of his devices turning into a build box09:11
l7yeah, i wonder how well compiz would work09:12
johnxthey barely have a framebuffer working09:12
johnxI wouldn't count on 3D drivers soon09:12
l7something like xbox media center would be nice09:12
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johnxexactly my thoughts :)09:12
GeneralAntillesjohnx is gonna end up laughing manically on a throne in the middle of his apartment as dozens and dozens of tiny Linux devices churn away.09:13
l7all controlled by the wiimote that rules them all09:13
JasonWoofI can't seek in mytube. is there a solution to this? (n810 diablo)09:13
GeneralAntillesI wish somebody would finish up Wii Control.09:13
l7JasonWoof: i think it's because mplayer doesn't handle flv seeking properly09:14
johnxor at least the version we have doesn't handle it properly09:14
l7is there a way to tweak mplayer's config file to make it work?09:14
JasonWoofHmmm... that would explain it09:14
l7the guys in #mplayer laughed at me when i told them the version number we have09:15
JasonWoofI remember having this problem on my desktop, but not recently09:15
JasonWoofI was quite surprised at how short the output of mplayer -h was09:16
l7JasonWoof: you can add &fmt=18 to the end of a youtube url to get an mp4 instead09:16
l7which sometimes works better with mplayer09:16
l7you might have to use the commandline and mplayer though09:17
l7mytube installs a commandline program called youtube-dl-x which is fun to play with09:17
l7since it just grabs youtube files you point it at09:18
l7yeah, it's the same as youtube-dl09:18
l7i dunno why the -x was added09:18
JasonWoofI use youtube-dl at home09:18
l7it's compiled a binary of some sort rather than a script though09:19
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l7s/a/as a/09:19
infobotl7 meant: it's compiled as a binary of some sort rather than a script though09:19
JasonWoofwill mytube still work if I hack youtube-dl to dl,mp4?09:19
l7i'm not sure09:20
JasonWoofmmm harder to hack if it's compiled09:20
l7youtuube's mp4 files don't always work on mplayer09:21
* JasonWoof looks for a more recent mplayer09:21
l7you could also just replace youtube-dl-x with your hacked script09:21
l7not sure how it would work though09:22
GeneralAntillesThe source is probably available somewhere.09:22
l7i'm a bit curious why mytube's dev chose to compile youtube-dl-x anyway09:23
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qwerty12Compile? It's a python app :P09:24
Stskeepsjohnx: would armv5t work on zaurus btw?09:24
johnxStskeeps, yes09:31
johnxthis sapwood problem appears to be specific to *just me*09:31
johnxor something09:31
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GeneralAntillesThere's a test in there somewhere for johnx09:31
GeneralAntilleswhich messes up the whole thing if true. :P09:32
johnxyeah, seriously09:32
johnxor "zaurus" :)09:32
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, when do I get Mer 1.0 that I can totally replace OS2008 with? :P09:32
johnxGeneralAntilles, we delay every time someone who knows better asks that question09:32
* GeneralAntilles is impatient for all the cool things floating around out there to gel right now. . . .09:33
GeneralAntillesjohnx, ah, just like Nokia? ;)09:33
johnxyup, we want to emulate the Nokia experience as closely as possible :D09:33
makakthat's sounds great for those who did'nt throw their zaurus for the nokia ^^09:34
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GeneralAntillesThings are going to get interesting 6 months from now.09:35
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Stskeepsjohnx: there's a clean sapwood in mer repo now btw09:53
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timelyxi'm likely to write a small package to break sketch10:10
timelyxwould someone here volunteer to test it?10:10
timelyxi should have it in about an hour'10:10
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Ro9u3oRis there any way to get usb connectivity on a n800 running os200710:12
Stskeepsyes, but what endpoint?10:16
Stskeepswhat OS are you connecting to?10:17
Ro9u3oRim running os200710:20
Ro9u3oRwhat are my options of os's10:20
GeneralAntillesDo you have any particular reason to be running OS2007?10:21
GeneralAntillesOS2008 is a lot better10:21
GeneralAntillesand what do you mean by "USB connectivity"?10:21
Ro9u3oRi want to be able to take a charge from the usb port10:24
Ro9u3oRi noticed a program for 2008 but didnt for 200710:25
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GeneralAntillesRo9u3oR, there's no software that would let you do that10:26
GeneralAntillesIt's not wired up that way. . . .10:26
GeneralAntillesAnyway, OS2007 sucks, you should really consider upgrading.10:27
Ro9u3oRim convinced, whats the process like10:27
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infobotextra, extra, read all about it, flashing is
hahlobitStskeeps: what would be best way to move deblet to bigger sdcard? i broke ubuntu with cp -some-options /old/card/* /new/card10:28
Stskeepshahlobit: rsync -a possibly10:28
Stskeepsmake sure proc and such isn't mounted10:28
hahlobitok i10:29
hahlobit try10:29
Ro9u3oRim a total newbie10:29
Ro9u3oRhow about step 1 of 5010:30
GeneralAntillesRo9u3oR, that website contains all the steps you'll need to upgrade with any platform.10:30
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Ro9u3oRi guess all the real nice mods are related to running os2007?10:34
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: re the unstable repo discussion - saw ubuntu/lp's "personal developer archive"?10:35
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, no.10:36
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suihkulokkiStskeeps: yeah, ubuntu's ppa repositories are cool10:36
Stskeepsyeah, ppa10:36
Ro9u3oRwhat are some reasons to hold onto 200710:36
Stskeepsi mean, this is a bit contrary to more centralized repos, but what it does is solve the problem of making developers able to make a unstable distribution in "their own repo" and avoiding the huge problems of introducing extras-devel in your tablet10:37
Stskeepsand if this is done from side..10:37
Stskeeps"would you like to add stskeeps' ppa"10:38
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suihkulokkiwhat's the fastest way contact tim samofF?10:50
suihkulokkior someone else from the community council awake10:50
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles might be awake10:52
aquatixor at least pretending to be10:52
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* Stskeeps adds an atom board to his huge bunch of crap in his office.10:53
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woglindehm nice job offer10:59
Stskeepstakes skill too though10:59
JaffaMorning, all11:00
woglindehi jaffa11:00
woglindeI think I would like to be a debmaster11:01
woglindebut I can not complian for it11:01
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woglindehm xfade around?11:06
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woglindexfade do you also admin garage?11:07
X-Fadewoglinde: Yes.11:07
woglindethe scm diff web seems broken11:07
woglindefor qt4 at least11:07
X-Fadewoglinde: Yes, that is a known bug.11:08
woglindeah okay11:08
woglindesorry than11:08
X-Fadewoglinde: Ferenc will work on this soon.11:08
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GeneralAntillessuihkulokki, ping?11:10
GeneralAntillessuihkulokki, also: council at is now live.11:10
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napsy_Hello. Can I upgrade the GLib package in Maemo to 2.18 somehow?11:11
woglindenapsy how familar are you with packaging?11:11
napsy_hm so-so11:11
Stskeepsnapsy_: i believe next version will have new glib11:11
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woglindenapsy_ then get the deb source from debian or ubuntu11:12
woglindeedit the control file11:12
Stskeepsyeah, * === Start Maemo-GLib 2.18.1 ===11:12
woglindeand try build it scrartchbox11:12
napsy_woglinde, hm good idea, I'll try11:12
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inzI would get the maemo source from and compile it11:13
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woglindelet me see what stage has11:13
woglindeno I meant11:14
woglinderepos or so11:14
inzIt's a svn repo11:14
woglindesvn checkout?11:14
inzexport should be better, I guess you're not going to make changes11:14
inzsvn export glib-2.18.1 && cd glib-2.18.1 && dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot11:15
woglindeinz ah sorry I misunderstood you11:16
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suihkulokkiGeneralAntilles: ya, sent them mail just a moment ago11:20
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johnx. ..11:27
Stskeeps.. so need to install a kvm11:27
Stskeepsgot a atom board standing next to me11:27
woglindeatom suckz11:28
Stskeepsyeah, well, for the price you get a decent bit11:28
Stskeepsand it's not for portable purposes11:28
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tank-manwhat price is that?11:30
woglindeI guess it was a gift11:31
Stskeepstank-man: i was able to buy a intel board for cheaper than a beagleboard, atleast11:32
Stskeepsadmittedly it needs ram and such too11:32
woglindehow that?11:32
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Stskeeps.. i'm not here to defend atom boards :P11:33
Stskeepsi wanted a beagleboard at first, but finding the things we need for this research was problematic11:33
GAN800Engage the Intel fanboy!11:33
GAN800Move move move!11:33
napsy_Hm when I try to compile Lib I get the following error: checking whether the C compiler works... configure: error: cannot run C compiled programs.11:35
napsy_If you meant to cross compile, use `--host'.11:35
napsy_what should I do?11:35
woglindenapsy_ install a compiler11:35
napsy_I have one11:35
woglindebut scratchbox should have it11:35
woglindenapsy do compile under scratchbox?11:36
napsy_I did but it fails11:36
Stskeepsjohnx: waiting for vala atm so we can get hildon-thumbnail11:36
napsy_I added --host but the flag wasn't recognised11:36
woglindenapsy_ ?????11:36
johnxStskeeps, ah cool...still trying to figure out what's up with sapwood on the zaurus :( and considering hildon on a certain low cost PPC11:37
woglindenapsy with scratchbox you do not need it11:37
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Stskeepsjohnx: which, per chance?11:37
napsy_woglinde, I added --host to my compile line but it didn't recognise it11:37
johnxa little white box from nintendo called a wii11:37
napsy_woglinde, hm wohat do you propose I should do?11:37
GAN800That would be freaky kick ass11:37
Stskeepsthat would be interesting, yes.11:37
woglindenapsy_ on scratchbox you do not need a crosscompiler configure line11:37
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napsy_woglinde, hm but it still won't compile11:38
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woglindenapsy please read the manual of scratchbox and maemo again11:38
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napsy_woglinde, I have the toolchain installed11:44
napsy_but it still fails11:44
woglindenapsy then please look into the file config.log11:45
Stskeepsjohnx: that would be quite intruiging, indeed.. you happen to know if Intel PXA270 is armv4 or armv5?11:45
woglindestskeep armv4t11:45
johnxit's armv5te11:46
GeneralAntillessuihkulokki, ping.11:46
johnxStskeeps, I tested on qemu with an armv5te and it works fine there. I'm really running out of ideas11:46
Stskeepsjohnx: X server issue maybe?11:46
johnxit seems to be inside a lib sapwood depends on11:46
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Stskeepsmaybe the more clean room stuff that mer is building with now will help / it being jaunty instead of hasty11:47
johnxI'm considering thoughts such as: gcc optimization bug, some CPU errata11:47
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johnxit's not a kernel problem at least11:47
Stskeepsi'm pondering maemo on a pocket loox 720 as well11:48
Stskeepshas debian and X, so11:48
johnxwhat's the resolution?11:49
woglindejohnx which toolchain did you use?11:49
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johnxand formerly debian11:49
johnxI should add that I've been seeing this problem for a long time11:49
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Stskeepsjohnx: ah, ok, 640x480, so maybe not that good for maemo11:49
johnxI'd like to take a look at spinning a 640x480 theme11:50
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johnxbut I want to kill this bug first11:50
johnxIt's personal >:|11:50
Stskeepsyou using hasty or jaunty?11:51
johnxhasty right now11:51
Stskeepsjaunty seems more sane these days11:51
woglindedeleting under xfs fs is so slow here11:52
johnxafter I get it sorted or at least find the root cause of it, I'll resume doing productive things :)11:52
Stskeepshehe.. i'm recompiling an intel gfx driver, so entertaining :)11:54
Stskeepsand vala11:54
Stskeepsthere's an impressive number of armel packages now on repo11:54
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Meiz_n810mer-rescue-menu for jaunty?11:55
johnxcompiling an intel graphics driver on an arm board?11:55
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Stskeepsjohnx: Mer goes on i3886 as well as part of my work11:58
Stskeepsand vala is compiling on the armel builder :P11:59
Stskeepsas jaunty hasn't reached that point yet and we need it12:01
johnxbuilding from ubuntu source or maemo?12:02
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Stskeepsubuntu, there's no difference in packages as far as i can tell12:02
Stskeepswell, one is experimental and one is not12:04
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GeneralAntillesqgil's spamming some interesting fixes in Bugzilla.13:26
lcukspam them here!13:26
* lcuk cant jump around the interweb13:26
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* lcuk wrestles with sqlserver13:27
johnxGeneralAntilles, use "red pill mode"? "look at"?13:27
lcukhiya johnx13:27
johnxhey lcuk13:27
lcukhows your package building goin13:28
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johnxit goes. doing a build of glib without optimizations to see if that changes anything in my sapwood problem13:28
johnxI need to get better at debugging C :/13:29
GeneralAntillesjohnx, s/fixes/rosolutions with target Fremantle/ :P13:29
JaffaGeneralAntilles: looking good. I've realised Fremantle's not going to live up to my expectations, though. It'll still be showing desktop Gtk+ish roots, I think13:29
X-FadeJaffa: Most of it will depend on the style, I guess?13:30
lcukjaffa, but thats *good* in a way, it means apps will evolve rather than being thrown away surely?13:30
GeneralAntilleslcuk, the ones at the bottom here:
X-FadeAnd I don't think you will see the end-user style in any sdk release ;)13:30
GeneralAntillesWell, Theme Maker is set to coincide with the beta SDK release.13:31
GeneralAntillesSooo . . .13:31
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suihkulokkiGeneralAntilles: pong13:31
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X-FadeYeah, but then you will still get Plankton orso ;)13:31
GeneralAntillessuihkulokki, I'm assuming whatever email you sent, it wasn't to community at
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, well, the style may not match but the layout seems like it should. :P13:32
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: yeah, I guess so. Although...13:33
suihkulokkiNov 26 10:57:07 watergate-2 postfix/smtp[16665]: 75686EE81AE: to=<>, relay=[]:13:34
suihkulokki6666, delay=0.27, delays=0.07/0/0.16/0.04, dsn=2.0.0, status=sent (250 2.0.0 Ok: queued as A9C02327400F)13:34
GeneralAntillessuihkulokki, community@ doesn't actually exist. Tim meant to use council at maemo.org13:35
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* Khertan_WebIrc5 [W2I=000:u:0:000:]13:35
Khertan_WebIrc5Hi !13:35
Khertan_WebIrc5is there an admin here ?13:35
X-FadeKhertan_WebIrc5: Sure ;)13:36
Khertan_WebIrc5i mean a admin of #maemo13:36
X-FadeYeah, multiple.13:36
Khertan_WebIrc5as you can see there is ... too much Khertan here :)13:36
suihkulokkiGeneralAntilles: oh..13:36
Khertan_WebIrc5the webcgi i use never log out13:36
qwerty12Khertan_WebIrc5, You spammer! :P13:37
Khertan_WebIrc5yep :)13:37
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, bring your wrath down on the Khertan clones! :P13:37
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qwerty12Khertan_WebIrc5, That's beautiful13:37
*** ChanServ sets mode: +o X-Fade13:37
Khertan_WebIrc5of course there is setting for colors background, foreground, title, and for font13:38
*** Khertan was kicked by X-Fade (X-Fade)13:38
qwerty12X-Fade, Now 4 more to go :P13:38
GeneralAntillesKhertan_WebIrc5, finally unifying them?13:38
GeneralAntillesLooks very nice.13:38
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X-FadeKhertan_WebIrc5: Better now?13:39
lcukkick khertan number 5 :P13:40
X-Fadelcuk: It seems he timed out already ;)13:41
* qwerty12 fires two shots in the air as he gets transmission's menu hildonised. Now to my history revision...13:43
* johnx claps then runs for cover13:44
johnx'night all13:44
qwerty12night johnx13:44
GeneralAntillesI always suspected qwerty12 was a space bandito.13:45
GeneralAntilleslater, johnx.13:45
qwerty12lol GeneralAntilles13:45
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Khertan_WebIrc5sorry :)13:48
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Khertan_WebIrc5yep thx x-fade13:48
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fijalthere is a bug in diablo python packages13:49
fijalit requires binutils to function correctly, while it does not depend on it13:50
Khertan_WebIrc5fijal ?13:50
Khertan_WebIrc5binutils ?13:50
fijalok, so in detail:13:50
Khertan_WebIrc5are you sure ?13:50
fijalbinutils package, more notably objdump13:50
fijalotherwise ctypes is unable to find any library13:50
fijalwell, it does not "require", but if you want to use ctypes you need it13:51
Khertan_WebIrc5this is not the same thing13:51
fijalyes, sorry for being imprecise13:51
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Khertan_WebIrc5do you know the actual dependancies of python2.5 package on maemo ?13:53
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fijallibbz2-1.0, libc6 (>= 2.5.0-1), libffi4 (>= 4.1.0), libgdbm3, libsqlite3-0 (>= 3.4.1), libssl0.9.8 (>= 0.9.8e-1), zlib1g (>= 1:1.2.1), libsqlite3-0 (>= 3.3.5-0.2osso1), libffi4 (>= 4.1.0-1osso1)13:54
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Khertan_WebIrc5like debian + libgdbm  + libffi4 + osso13:55
Khertan_WebIrc5going to eat13:57
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* GeneralAntilles notices the temperature outside and dies a little.14:24
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andre__whoah. quim cleaned up a lot of enhancement requests in maemo bugzilla. cool14:26
aquatix`won't fix' ? ;)14:27
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andre__mostly fixed for fremantle14:27
Stskeepsany specific interesting ones?14:27
GeneralAntillesAt the bottom14:27
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andre__errr... lots of interesting ones from my pov14:28
GeneralAntilles Counter-balances andre__'s WONTFIX spam a bit. :P14:28
andre__still cleaning up my inbox... 70 emails or sth like that :)14:28
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GeneralAntillesThey're saving all the positive resolutions for themselves.14:29
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andre__heh. yeah, people will hate me and love nokia ;-)14:32
X-Fadeandre__: It's good that there is no negative karma for WONTFIX yet ;)14:33
GeneralAntillesPsh, karma.14:33
andre__oh, i'd be at -100 then :)14:33
GeneralAntilleslashings is what it'll be.14:33
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RST38handre: Speaking of lashings, why did vkbd last-used-symbols palette get postponed until Harmattan?14:41
RST38handre: This effectively means WONTFIX, so why was it marked FIXED?14:42
GeneralAntillesRST38h, don't start this nonsense.14:42
andre__boooooring, sorry14:42
RST38hGeneral: Why is this particular one nonsense?14:42
GeneralAntilles"FIXED" does not mean "FIXED in this release"14:42
GeneralAntillesYou know that, don't play dumb.14:42
RST38hNot asking for a pink elephant here14:42
RST38hGeneral: The bug is reported for Diablo release14:43
GeneralAntillesSee Quim's answer14:43
RST38hgeneral: Is it fixed in diablo release?14:43
GeneralAntillesNo, RST38h, I'm not having this discussion.14:43
RST38hThat was a bullshit answer, sorry (not yours, Quim's)14:43
JaffaRST38h: reductio ad absurdum would mean that it was a bug in v4.2008.1.2.3 and it can *never* be fixed in that specific version14:44
RST38hJaffa: That is WONTFIX14:44
RST38hAlthough it really can be fixed, there is nothing undoable about it14:44
JaffaWhat if the fix is in v4.2008.2.1.2? That's FIXED in a future release, compared with the version it was reported against it14:44
JaffaRST38h: Nokia have said it will be FIXED in Harmattan; that they're going to provide the resource to do that.14:45
RST38hJaffa: harmattan is two releases away and not likely to run on N810 hardware14:45
RST38hJaffa: So, effectively, for the current users it is WONTFIX14:45
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GeneralAntillesYou can't seriously have believed that they'd implement a completely new input setup just for Diablo so late in the game.14:45
GeneralAntillesYou're either being intentionally thick or you've completely deluded yourself.14:45
RST38hGeneral: I did not ask for completely new setup14:46
RST38hGeneral: Same setup, use some spots to store the last typed symbols, that is all14:46
RST38hGeneral: And all I am really asking currently is to mark it WONTFIX if it will not be fixed for the user who reported it14:46
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, it doesn't work like that.14:47
RST38hIs there anything unclear about what I am saying?14:47
RST38hHas to work like that in order not to be bullshit14:47
GeneralAntillesNo, it's all perfectly clear, but you clearly do not understand the process.14:47
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RST38hWhatever process exists there, it should not lead to marking unfixed report as FIXED14:49
RST38hOtherwise the process is wrong14:49
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GeneralAntillesThen feel free to go mark all the TM: Fremantle bugs marked as FIXED as WONTFIX. We'll see how far you get.14:50
lcukfremantle is reasonable, but saying something is fixed in harmattan does strike me as a bit silly14:51
GeneralAntilleslcuk, do _YOU_ have a crystal ball that tells you when Harmattan will be released and what it'll run on?14:51
GeneralAntillesI don't think so.14:51
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lcukno, but its like microsft saying bugs HAVE BEEN fixed in windows 814:52
GeneralAntillesThe process does not have gray areas, and it doesn't differentiate between fixes within a release and fixes across releases.14:52
Khertan_WebIrc5reading bugzilla let me think that Fremantle will be a uber version !14:52
GeneralAntilleslcuk, it's nothing of the sort.14:52
Khertan_WebIrc5all things will be fixed in Fremantle14:53
GeneralAntillesBugs are RESOLVED before a fix it shipped14:53
Khertan_WebIrc5lcuk: microsoft say it14:53
GeneralAntillesGenerally speaking, with true bugs, it means the code has been fixed, but it's waiting to be shipped (then they're CLOSED when the fix ships)14:53
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lcukbugs arent always resolved, i do understand alternative pathways emerging and removign the need to resolve because a different solution may appear14:53
GeneralAntillesEnhancements don't require code commits to be RESOLVEd14:53
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GeneralAntillesReally, though, lcuk, it's a lame discussion that's been had a thousand times before, so take it up with /dev/null if it really bothers you.14:54
* Khertan_WebIrc5 agree GeneralAntilles14:55
wizaanyone having an idea about canola 2 beta 10 state?14:56
wizaout before xmas?14:56
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GeneralAntillesNote: packages in the SDK repository aren't intended to be compatible / installed to the device currently, this is target for later releases.14:59
GeneralAntillesLooks like Nokia may eventually target the "on-device development" use case.14:59
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RST38h[after reading handful's post] Urgh.15:00
Khertan_WebIrc5GREAT ! For on-device developpers !15:00
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JaffaRST38h: Nokia's resources are now focused on !diablo. Not much can be done about that, and nothing different is really to be expected at this point. If someone in the community was to backport the fix to diablo, and repackage it, it would be fixed in your codebase15:01
wizahmm. maybe I should just try to change my n810 to n800+some money15:01
wizasince I'm planning to only use it in car and I can't use the keyboard when it is mounted15:02
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lcukdamn timing, gan ok its a bit like floggin a dead horse and ill drop it until something specific crops up again ;)15:07
lcukon device dev :) mmmm15:07
andre__"Enhancements don't require code commits to be RESOLVEd" - I discussed this with Quim two days ago. It's really easier for all of us to keep track this way, and I definitely know that Nokia is not Microsoft implementing only 10% of the features promised for Windows $Next15:10
andre__(just to clarify)15:10
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GeneralAntillesYeah, that was pretty much decided with Jaffa's scrollbar bug.15:15
GeneralAntillesEnhancements frequently aren't things that you can decide based on code, anyway.15:15
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GeneralAntillesOn that note, it's Thanksgiving break time, so I'll be intermittent until next week.15:19
GeneralAntillesLater all. :)15:19
X-FadeHeh, have fun!15:20
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RST38hetrunko: Hey, you are working on Carman, right?16:18
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Khertan_WebIrc5How to set the selection in a gtk TreeView ?16:19
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Khertan_WebIrc5name of the method16:19
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* Stskeeps curses Xorg16:29
soapI reordered my IMAP folders in Thunderbird PC-side, and the changes have taken effect on my IMAP server, but CLAWS is still displaying the old folder names and locations.  Is there a buried command I am missing in CLAWS to re-sync the folder list?16:30
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soapI have tried a variety of google searches on CLAWS, IMAP, sync, update, folders, folder, reload, etc - and 90% of the hits are regarding CLAWS and GMAIL (not relevant to my issue) and the rest mostly focus on basic IMAP setup.16:35
soapI have a strong suspicion removing claws, deleting the mailboxes off my external card, and reinstalling claws will "fix" the situation, but that won't address the real issue.16:36
aquatixthat's odd16:36
aquatixthere is a rescan folder tree menu option in claws16:36
aquatix"rebuild folder tree"16:36
aquatixyou should try that :)16:36
aquatixi think it's in the file menu on the maemo claws16:37
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soapNot in "files", looking deeper.16:39
aquatixcontext menu of the account16:40
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* aquatix grabs his n81016:40
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soapahh ha - there it is.16:40
soaplet's give it 10 - large IMAP set.16:40
aquatixyeah, also on maemo's claws version16:40
RST38h~curse IMAP for trying to be a filesystem rather than mail access protocol16:41
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, IMAP for trying to be a filesystem rather than mail access protocol !16:41
woglinderst *g*16:41
* aquatix has about 500 folders with 88321 emails in his imap account16:41
aquatixwhoa, 500 folders? :/16:42
soapI previously had folders nested deep in folders.  It is not an issue with Thunderbird, but claws doesn't behave the same way with nested folders, and so I figured I'd flatten out my tree as a dirty way of making the two clients show similar behavior.16:42
* aquatix counts again16:42
RST38hpop3 looks almost harmless by comparison16:42
aquatixhm, seems about right16:42
aquatixsoap: i have nested folders in claws too16:43
aquatixfyi :)16:43
soapok, let's talk one of the examples which was bugging me:16:43
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soapLet us say "Family" is a folder child of "Archive", and "Mom" is a folder child of "Family"16:44
soapArchive -> Family -> Mom16:44
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soapWhen viewing folder "Family" in claws I would see not just the messages directly stored in "Family" but also the messages stored in "Mom" in the view.16:44
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soapIs this just the way it is - or did I (once again) fail to find the proper setting to change behavior?16:45
soapoooooo - "rescan folder tree" worked like a frickin charm!16:45
soapyou known as aquatix on itt?16:46
aquatixi think so16:46
aquatixnot sure i ever posted there16:46
soapdon't see you in the list - oh well was going to "thank" you there.16:48
aquatixah :)16:48
soapLast stupid question - has anyone compared battery life when leaving claws running and checking new mail every 1 minute vs every 10 minutes?  Does this interfere with wifi powersaving mode?16:50
soapFor claws (yet to google) does not seem to support IMAP push.16:50
aquatixdidn't try, but yes that would interfere16:50
aquatixit helps not to have it check all the folders of course16:51
* aquatix doesn't let claws autocheck mail on his n81016:51
aquatixonly on my pc's16:51
soapaka RFC 217716:51
aquatixyeah, that's something i miss in claws16:52
aquatixthunderbird supports it16:52
aquatixand my dovecot imap server too16:52
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soapI read that any persistent connection (*cough* X-chat) prevents wifi "sleep", so I assume imap idle/push would as well - oh well.16:55
ShadowJKI get >day standby with xchat running16:55
soapvs >5 w/o?16:56
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ShadowJKdunno, I use the tablet too much to tell ;)16:56
soapThat's still not bad - makes it workable.  I guess my other option would be to run a shell client on my server and view it (for backlogs) via screen as needed.16:57
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* aquatix uses irssi in a screen session17:00
aquatixvery convenient17:00
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soapsomething to look into - I fell in love with xchat for the same reason I did thunderbird - very consistent "feel" across platforms.  So I'll admit never having spent much time looking at the alternatives.17:02
WormFoodx-chat rocks17:03
WormFoodI've been using it for close to 10 years now (I've been using IRC since 1994)17:03
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WormFoodI was using the internet before the web was popular....back then we used tools like "archie" and "veronica" to search gopherspace17:06
WormFoodgopher servers are still around, just largely unknown17:07
WormFoodI meet very few people who remember gopher, archie and veronica17:07
soapAll I had was gopher, usenet, and muds over telnet when I got online in college in 199117:08
soapwell, email, but that is a given.17:08
WormFoodI used to host a mud/mush for a friend...I installed it, but they maintained it from inside the mud17:09
aquatixmuds \o/17:09
WormFoodI didn't get into usenet much, until the last 10 years17:09
woglindehow many years wasted17:09
* Khertan_WebIrc5 remember the old first class and bbs time ...17:09
* aquatix spent too much time in one17:09
WormFoodI never played them17:09
WormFoodbut was very aware of them17:09
* Khertan_WebIrc5 remember is old 9600 baud modem ...17:09
woglindeseems all opensource devs has the same17:09
woglindehave the same hoobies17:09
WormFoodI remember 300 baud modem, I had in 198517:09
timelessaquatix: ping17:09
aquatixtimeless: pong17:09
timelessplease consider loading
WormFoodI bought my first modem, before I bought my first computer (1986)17:10
timelessnote that you'll want to read the sources and back up the files :)17:10
aquatixtimeless: that's a sketching app?17:10
soapI had a 2400 modem over a "dedicated" line to the VAX.  There used to be a hall phone in the dorm, they had removed it and I bonded its wired to my room's second pair.17:10
infobotsoap meant: I had a 2400 modem over a "dedicated" line to the VAX.  There used to be a hall phone in the dorm, they had removed it and I bonded its wires to my room's second pair.17:10
timelessit's a hack to the sketch app17:10
timelesscurrently sketch and images are incompatible17:11
timelessthis makes them somewhat compatible17:11
timelesswell, maybe :)17:11
timelesstell me if it works for you :)17:11
aquatixhm, who made the system load applet again btw? i had a version that flashed the led red when screenshotting, but lost it17:11
aquatixtimeless: hm, mind if i try tomorrow?17:12
timelessno problem17:12
WormFoodthey still use 1200 baud bell 202 modems (most 1200 baud modems were bell 212....202 is half duplex, but 212 is full duplex)17:12
timelessbut i'm hoping for a customer today17:12
timelesssee anyone else around?17:12
Khertan_WebIrc5lol ... found some warez site in gopher17:12
timelesskhertan: ping? :)17:12
WormFoodI used to search gopherspace for warez, back in the day17:13
aquatixtimeless: hm, hold on17:13
* aquatix tries work wifi on his n81017:13
Khertan_WebIrc5timeless> pong17:13
WormFoodanyone know what bell 202 1200 baud modems are still used for today?17:13
aquatixtimeless: you meant backing up sketches?17:13
aquatixWormFood: ... terminals?17:13
aquatixdecoration :P17:14
WormFoodI read that the terminals used for deaf people are 110 baud17:14
aquatixah right17:14
WormFoodthey use 1200 baud 202 modems over the radio....2-way radio17:14
aquatixbraille terminals17:14
WormFoodcheck out AX.25...still in use today (that is the protocol, but many times used at 1200 baud)17:14
WormFoodbut 9600 baud is becoming more popular due to techniques to decrease the bandwidth17:15
timelessaquatix: this is meant to solve bug 32017:15
timelesskhertan: can i get you to try installing a deb?17:15
WormFoodI used to have a ham radio license, and used to use packet radio all the time....talked from Florida to Costa Rica on 300 baud packet, on 10 meters17:16
WormFoodI talked from Florida to NYC, on 11 meters once (pirate radio)17:16
WormFoodat 300 baud...that was weird17:16
soapbah - real men used 2M or 70CM17:17
WormFoodI used packet on 2M too17:17
soapand got long range by stringing repeaters.17:17
WormFoodnever used it on 70cm tho17:17
Khertan_WebIrc5does there is translated version of NetHack ?17:18
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WormFoodwith packet, you don't need to "string repeaters", the system allows for that17:18
aquatixtsk, just bounce against the ionosphere ;)17:18
WormFoodI talked from N. Floria to Cuba one night, on the 2 meter repeater in Ocala (florida)17:18
WormFoodno aquatix17:19
* aquatix wanted to try hamradio back in the days, but never came around to it17:19
aquatixWormFood: i guess i'm talking nonsense now? :)17:19
WormFood2m and 70cm does not refract off the ionosphere17:19
WormFoodit goes through the ionosphere17:19
aquatixah right17:19
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timelesshi qwerty1217:21
* timeless is trying to sell a deb17:21
qwerty12hi timeless17:21
* timeless isn't having much luck17:21
timelesswanna buy?17:21
* aquatix gives -$617:21
timelessit's tiny :)17:21
* aquatix tries to download17:22
aquatixdamn work wifi17:22
qwerty12timeless, "Enable Sketch to interoperate with Images" - Sounds good to me, /me installs :)17:22
* aquatix slaps his work's dns server around with a cluebat17:23
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qwerty12timeless, Hrm, it should depend on perl-base rather than perl17:24
aquatixpackage perl not installed17:25
qwerty12yep, don't install it either, it will take up a shitload of space in modules17:26
* aquatix has -base17:26
aquatixqwerty12: yep, i'll wait for a new package from timeless17:26
qwerty12for what timeless does using perl in the postinst, setting it to perl-base will suffice fine without wasting space17:26
* aquatix pokes timeless 17:27
* qwerty12 goes to edit the depends line of the deb17:27
woglindehi qwerty17:27
qwerty12ello woglinde :)17:27
aquatixRST38h: missing a char there17:28
Stskeepsanyone here who have a D945GCLF2 intel board who got their TV-out to work with PAL? :P17:28
qwerty12Stskeeps, Damn those NTSC bastards! :P17:28
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* RST38h deflorates qwerty with a SCART plug17:29
qwerty12Easy there :P17:29
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qwerty12~bitchslap transmission, upnp and thomson speedtouch routers18:01
* infobot beats the sh*t out of transmission, upnp and thomson speedtouch routers18:01
* aquatix bridged his thomson speedtouch to his linksys wrt54g18:02
aquatixworks a *lot* better18:02
* RST38h does not even known what speedtouch is18:02
aquatixthe modem just dies18:02
qwerty12RST38h, be thankful...18:02
aquatixRST38h: that's that crappy adsl modem you have to buy from your isp ;)18:03
qwerty12aquatix, Mine is on loan thankfully... I have the netgear somewhere, should set that up again... I miss telnetting into a proper router18:04
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RST38hMy ISP gives me a piece of CAT-5E18:04
aquatixRST38h: that'd be heaven18:04
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aquatixfiber? :)18:04
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* Havi loves his ASUS router18:05
RST38haquatix: Only between the block router and the provider18:05
aquatixRST38h: what's your connection called?18:05
RST38hFrom appartment to the roof, it is still CAT-5E18:05
aquatixor is it just cable?18:05
RST38hIt is called Ethernet :)18:05
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aquatixheh :)18:06
aquatixso you actually have ethernet-to-the-home?18:06
RST38hActually the backbone is fiber, but the in-building distribution network is plain Ethernet18:07
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* qwerty12 gets tickets to Moscow18:07
* aquatix hates his isp18:07
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aquatixi had about 13MBit adsl18:07
aquatixthen they changed owners and backbone18:07
RST38hqwerty12: yea, right, it has just started snowing18:07
aquatixnow i have barely 8MBit18:07
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qwerty12RST38h, omg, you refered to me as qwerty12 :O. Hehe, the weather in London is horrible atm, at least snow would make up for it :P18:08
HaviIt's totally 60F here :)18:08
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RST38hqwerty12: be careful what you wish for. This is from a few days ago (use mouse to scroll):
* soap has got to find his choice for alt-OS on the N810. It is his only ARM with stock firmware.18:10
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RST38hsoap: Port MSDOS?18:11
aquatixwhoa, it's currently 8.2C here18:13
aquatixthat's freaking hot :P18:13
aquatixRST38h: awesome skies18:14
aquatixsoap: minix3?18:14
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* aquatix loves the `you are here' in RST38h's link18:16
RST38haquatix: these are not going anywhere for the next 3 months =)18:16
aquatixRST38h: heh, ouch18:16
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caio1982is there any GUI/HUI guideline about using icons in menu entries on Maemo?18:21
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RST38hThe abbreviation you were going to use is HCI18:22
caio1982yes, sorry18:22
RST38hAnd no, icons are optional, it is up to you18:22
RST38hAlthough you should probably use standard ones for standard actions18:22
caio1982stock icons you mean?18:23
caio1982okie, thanks RST38h :)18:23
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* aquatix -> home18:28
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* timeless cries18:32
HaviSadist Navi is happy18:33
* qwerty12 makes Havi cry. Happy now timeless?18:33
* timeless frowns18:33
timelesssorry, i almost have sketch cooperating18:34
timelessbut it seems i also broke it18:34
timelessand i'm not sure if that was the installer or the uninstaller18:34
timelesswe need to reinstall sketch to find out which18:34
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lcuktimeless, what you sketchin18:49
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timelesslcuk: one sec18:52
timelesslcuk: see the package description18:53
lcuki cant see anything im a zillion miles away from a linux system and in vnc18:54
lcukjust c&p into here :P18:54
timelessDescription: Enable Sketch to interoperate with Images18:54
timeless This package corrects a design flaw in the sketch application.18:54
timeless Bug 320 Sketch and Images interaction doesn't work18:54
lcukahhh cool, so what - this allows sketch app to view images, or image viewer to show sketches?18:55
timelessit isn't perfect18:55
timelesssince sketch is really lame and images is fairly stupid18:55
timelessbut it's as good as it'll get from a 1k package :)18:56
lcuktop banana though :) good to see bugs being resolved or worked on18:56
HaviTurn it into a pictionary game18:56
timelessactually, there was a way to do one better18:56
timelesswhich would let you choose to use sketch to open png's from file manager18:56
timelessbut i don't think i want to do that18:57
lcukheh big job (basically what i need to do for something later18:57
timelessoh it's trivial18:58
lcukfor varying degrees of trivial18:58
lcukwait until user throws you a 24mbit png18:58
lcukand stresses your tablet18:59
* timeless grumbles19:00
timelessie failed to post my comment19:00
lcukie fails FULLSTOP19:01
lcukanyway, must dash again, bbiab, ill install that random .deb and try it - or are you gonna put it in -devel ;)19:01
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timelessi stuck it into the bug19:03
timelessbut feel free to try it :)19:03
* timeless wonders how the mime database works19:03
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Ro9u3anyone running the android os on their n800?19:13
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Ro9u3oRcan someone post the link on how to upgrade the n800 to os200819:16
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konttori_Ro9u3oR: what os do you have ? windows? osx?19:23
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Meiz_n810Thunderbird is available for ubuntu-arm now.19:34
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Ro9u3oRis there any documentation on the maemo site that could walk me thru upgrading my device19:39
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* konttori_ tried to make sense of debian setups and gave up19:48
moontigeryou mean .deb files?19:49
konttori_I mean src files19:49
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moontigerahhhhhhhhh yeah ... i hear you19:49
konttori_debs I have. It's the debian sources I'm missing19:49
konttori_I mean, I *was* trying to make the dpkg-buildpackage work.19:50
qwerty12For UKMP?19:50
konttori_But it seemed too much work and I'll just package with dpkg-deb19:50
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qwerty12Ah, what's your problem with dpkg-buildpackage?19:50
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konttori_well, I don't have the debian rules that would work19:53
konttori_I assume that that is the issue.19:54
konttori_hmm... committing to svn19:55
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qwerty12Midgard, oh Midgard, why do you insist on pissing me off?19:57
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qwerty12afternoon slonopotamus ;P19:59
qwerty12or evening rather19:59
slonopotamusasked before, will retry: anyone has n800 kernel >= 2.6.25?20:00
suihkulokkipeople on linux-omap mailing list try it every now and then20:01
slonopotamusuh. ok.20:01
Ro9u3oRcan anyone lead me to a tutorial on upgrading my n80020:02
slonopotamusi'm not brave enough to build it myself ;)20:02
HaviWait, new ukmp?20:03
slonopotamusRo9u3oR, err... just use app manager?20:04
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Ro9u3oRits that simple? just run the app manager and select what?20:06
slonopotamusRo9u3oR, choose 'updates' and 'update all' there?20:07
Ro9u3oRdoes this include os200820:08
Havikonttori_: I saw :D20:08
Haviyippee \o/ :)20:08
slonopotamusRo9u3oR, uhm. what os version do you have?20:09
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konttori_I'm testing now 1.83 on the device and will then upload that to garage20:11
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Ro9u3oRthanks, ill look that over20:11
Ro9u3oRyou know what the process is like? is it time consuming20:12
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soapMidgard?  My street name is "Midgard Rd."20:13
qwerty12The CMS runs >.<20:14
slonopotamusRo9u3oR, if everything goes ok, 15 minutes (plus download time and time for full charge before upgrading)20:15
slonopotamusRo9u3oR, it is strongly recommended to fully charge and to make a couple of backups20:16
slonopotamusRo9u3oR, i'm wrong. you _need_ to make a backup because internal flash will be overwritten20:17
||cwinteresting, google maps says there is only one Midgard Rd in the whole world20:18
* slonopotamus didn't say something wrong?20:18
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slonopotamusRo9u3oR, however you won't need to reflash anymore (but that doesn't mean you won't need backups ;)20:20
slonopotamusi mean... after os 200820:21
slonopotamusbecause of seamless updates...20:21
slonopotamusand very low probability of getting os 2009 on n8x0 ;)20:22
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slonopotamusofftopic observation: irc archives are much less google-friendly than maillists20:25
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konttori_wuhuu: new version of ukmp -
lcukheh konttori_ put it in -devel ;)20:35
lcuki would like to beta-test your application and will give feedback :D20:36
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konttori_lcuk: I'll try to put it to devel later on.20:37
lcukthats ok im getting it now20:37
lcukwa sthere an overriding reason for the orientation, and is it difficult to allow the inverse?  ie the "bottom" is where my buttons are20:38
slonopotamusomg ;)20:38
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konttori_Should not be problem to inverse20:39
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mikkov_konttori: package seems to contain couple of extras pngs? (/usr/share/icons/hicolor/64x64/apps/._ukmp.png, /usr/share/pixmaps/._bg.png, /usr/share/pixmaps/._ukmp.png)20:42
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konttori_Ah. those are osx thumbnails.20:43
lcukkonttori_, i have to say, you have got me interested in portrait mode :) thank you for opening my eyes20:43
konttori_I need to put to build scripts to remove them20:43
konttori_yeah, portrait works for some use cases nicely20:44
konttori_of course, not all.20:44
lcukapart from the keyboard20:44
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GAN800email spam20:47
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ron1nkonttori_, I think xrandr is awesome for the tablets20:48
ron1nfor all of my uses20:48
ron1nportrait is great20:48
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Meiz_n810Why it turns to right?20:51
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Meiz_n810buttons on the left are not really easy to use...20:52
Stskeepsdepends if you are a leftie or a rightie20:52
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Meiz_n810UKMP:s portrait mode turns the screen right so the buttons are in top border then20:54
Meiz_n810Bug great app anyway =P it looks like those buttons are no big deal, it can be used without :)20:56
lcukMeiz_n810, ukmp is really nice, but it screws my head up cos i basically leave device on its stand20:58
* lcuk gets a soreneck ;)20:58
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GAN800Hrm, random person in the activity log21:04
GAN800Who is Emilia?21:04
slonopotamus_oh, emilia, emilia...21:04
slonopotamus_your first love?21:04
GAN800Er, no, somebody new in the Sprint activity log.21:05
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l7has anyone tried setting up extra user accounts on their tablets?21:25
GAN800It's not a multiuser system.21:25
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l7not that it's terribly useful with SD card booting, but it might be fun for the hell of it21:25
Stskeepsyeah.. maemo is definately not multiuser as it is right now21:26
lcukbut tablets are21:26
l7you can ssh in as root and user at the same time though21:26
Meizirkkibutit world be nice to have multiple users then changing between them with kdm :P21:26
Stskeepsl7: yeah, but UI isn't21:26
l7i guess you could maintain another shell environment if you wanted to21:26
lcukits rather disconcerting to be scrolling through my sketches and have to bypass a big list of jacobs trains and cars and scribbles before returning to real notes21:27
fiferboyqwerty12_N800: Wow, transmission makes it hard to hildonize the menu, doesn't it?21:28
* Stskeeps curses intel graphics21:28
l7lcuk: in maemopad?21:28
lcuk*spit* of course now21:28
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lcukin liqbase :)21:28
qwerty12_N800fiferboy, did you try too? I figured it out :)21:28
fiferboyI was just trying.21:28
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l7hrm, haven't tried liqbase yet21:28
fiferboyHow did you get it done?21:28
fiferboylcuk: Is it any good? ;)21:29
lcukvote and comment please :) and theres a video of my presentation and info here liqbase.net21:29
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l7what's advantages does liqbase have?21:29
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infobotl7 meant: what advantages does liqbase have?21:29
qwerty12_N800fiferboy, - For the transmission, grab the source to 1.40-2maemo3-1.34dgfix121:30
lcukits rapid and designed to get your notes and thoughts in without slowing you down21:30
l7darn i hoped sudo apt-get install liqbase would work21:30
qwerty12_N800^ specific changes21:30
lcukl7, it should21:30
lcukits in extras21:30
l7yeah, it just returned a newline for me21:30
lcukbut the info pages are there for you to see before you install :)21:30
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l7info pages?21:31
l7why can't i just hit install?21:31
* l7 is impatient21:31
lcukgo for it :) its the fastest damned thing on your tablet21:31
fiferboy"Adding an utility function to the code that converts from a GtkMenuBarto a GtkMenu solves this. The very nice thing is that it still uses the definitions in the glade file"21:32
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l7application manager has 0.1.521:32
fiferboyThat makes it easier!21:32
qwerty12_N800Yeah, worked a treat for me on transmission :)21:32
l7it's weird how stuff sometimes fails from the commandlin21:33
lcukyes l7, thats the first and only actual release :)21:33
Stskeepspeople should work on automatic hildonizers..21:33
l7do you need to do "rootsh" instead of "root" to get "sudo apt-get install" to work?21:33
Stskeepsit should be possible.21:33
* qwerty12_N800 just needs to learn C now :P21:33
lcukl7, you could just use the h-a-m21:33
* lcuk wants to rename the app manager to b.a.c.o.n21:33
Stskeepsliqbase's new name21:34
ProteousI'm eating a cinnamon roll that I made21:34
Stskeepsi read an article about bacon in chocolate treat21:34
lcukwho else has bacon as a highlight keyword in maemo?21:34
lcukirc i mean21:34
lcukffs, im low on power21:35
l7lcuk: hildon app manager?21:35
l7it's slow to load up :21:35
l7but it works21:35
BugBluea new garnet VM21:35
l7liqbase is nice21:35
l7it segfaults when i hit do some reading for some reason21:36
lcukmmmm it hasnt done that in a longtime21:36
l7hrm, i think it's because did "ln -s /home/user/ home"21:37
l7and caused a loop21:37
fiferboyqwerty12_N800: Let me know if you have any c questions, but it seems to be you who always helps me21:37
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lcukfiferboy, he helps everyone21:37
l714:36:52 walk /home/user/user/user/user/user/user/user/user/user/user/user/user/user/user/user/user/user/user/user/user/...21:37
lcuk(with varying degrees of help)21:37
qwerty12_N800fiferboy, Thanks!21:37
lcukheh l7, guess it does loop21:37
fiferboylcuk: That's what the poll on ITT shows21:38
fiferboyWell, it also shows something about his ego, but I don't beleive that21:38
l7i did it because mediacenter wouldn't read my entire home directory properly21:38
l7lazy app21:38
lcukthem or me?21:38
* lcuk hasnt encountered recursive symlinks before21:38
l7i guess it's a rather weird thing to do21:39
lcukill do some additional testing, thanks for that, you will have to ignore the bookreading for now (but you should be able to see the reader itself by viewing the license on the options pane21:39
slonopotamus_recuursive hhard links are much funnier, i suppose21:39
l7putting symlinks from ~/MyDocs/.sounds to ~/sounds is handy though21:39
l7if you use the shell a lot21:40
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l7slonopotamus_: hmm, what happens with recursive hardlinks?21:40
slonopotamus_i don't know21:40
slonopotamus_haven't tried21:41
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lcukl7, to see liqbase at its smoothest and best you will need to add some sketches (since you havent looked at a video), the graffiti wall and physics view are bare until they have sketches to work from21:41
l7hrm, i deleted ~/user and it works okay now21:41
lcukyes, "do some drawing" and draw stuff21:42
l7it looks really nice so far, it's very fast which is a welcome change21:42
lcuksave and do some more, very rapid fire little notes21:42
lcukl7, you are by default not even running at fastest possible speed, go into options and change cpu to performance ;)21:42
lcukthis will be changed in next release so that specific screens clock up as required21:43
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l7hrm, i just drew a smiley face so far21:44
l7is it possible to type notes or is it only intended for sketch notes?21:44
l7the physics sym is really neat21:45
lcukright now its sketching only, i use it every day for all sorts of things - its easier writing a shopping list than it is typing one on tiny kb21:45
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moontigerlcuk, i really like the idea of full screen finger scrolly apps that show data like an rss reader or a doc viewer or an image viewer etc21:45
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GNUtonHi there21:46
lcukmoontiger, you aren't the only one, ive currently stripped liqbase right back - theres so many apps that become possible with a reasonable simple widgetset - and rss readers and reports and calendars and timelines and hundreds of different views on data are in my mind21:46
GAN800Hi, GNUton21:46
l7a single space font would be nice for looking at log files or random text21:46
GNUtonHei GAN80021:46
l7it's a really neat interface though21:47
moontigeri would be happy to work on some of those too21:47
lcukl7, i originally had the kinetic bookreader opening in fixed width - i want to do actual code editing on device21:47
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lcukmoontiger, great :D no doubt you will see when things are released :) ill be shouting from the rooftops when i get something reasonable for testing21:48
lcukbut ive never built anything like this before (ive always had a core widgetset available) so i dunno what im doing with everything21:48
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moontigerawesome :)  i want an rss reader that doesnt use the damn bbrowser to show pages21:48
moontigerhow come the browser isnt very good?21:49
lcukheh, i want a *simple* html parser which can read bog standard html pages21:49
lcukfor a nicer formatted bookreader21:49
lcukwhich browser?21:49
moontigerhmmmmmmmmmm shouldnt be too hard to write a *simple* parser21:49
moontigerthe microb browser21:49
l7oh wow, i just noticed the kinetic scrolling for viewing text21:49
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l7that's really cool21:49
lcukand automatica scrolling l721:50
lcukpress ummm menu21:50
slonopotamus_too hard to define what 'simple parser' means21:50
lcukthen up down for speed21:50
lcukits the only tearfree renderer on the device :)21:50
l7ah nice21:50
l7the auto scroll speed is not adjustable yet i guess21:50
moontigerslonopotamus_, simple markup21:50
lcukslonopotamus_, just your baseline 1994 type browser21:50
GAN800Micro Browser browser? :P21:50
RST38hslono: simple parser == parser that does not require backtrace21:50
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l7the auto scroll speed is not adjustable yet i guess21:50
fiferboyqwerty12_N800: Huzzah!  It works21:50
fiferboyDo you want me to submit a patch to you so I can take credit for the work you did?21:51
l7this bluetooth keyboard repeats itself sometimes21:51
qwerty12_N800fiferboy, for the menus? :)21:51
lcukl7, nothing else on this device can render a screen of anything without suffering from dramatic tearing effects21:51
lcukl777777777777777 yes, i notice that, its normally when the cpu is very buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuusy with something else21:51
l7lcuk: heh21:52
l7i guess i shouldn't leave a browser window open on the tablet21:52
lcukheh not with 17 flash instances :P21:52
l7liqbase is also in the background21:52
qwerty12_N800fiferboy, I've already used that code to fix the menus... I promoted "1.40-2maemo3-1.34dgfix1" to extras :/21:52
l7eh, i turn off flash and javascript21:52
lcukthose ppl who are playing with liqbase, could you please vote and comment on here:
l7otherwise i have to wait minutes for pages to load21:52
fiferboyI was just joking, I just used the code you pointed to and compiled myself.21:53
lcukdepends on the pages - the autoresize is the worst culprit21:53
GAN800It doesn't count when you whore. :p21:53
lcukof course it does gan21:53
lcukhow many times did you say "vote for me" during the election?21:53
GAN800Maybe once21:54
GAN800I didn't campaign21:54
* lcuk will kiss babies21:54
lcukand shake hands21:54
lcukand knock on doors21:54
qwerty12_N800fiferboy, Heh :). I still can't believe i promoted a dodgy version...21:54
fiferboyWhich one was dodgy?21:54
lcuklol qwerty12_N800 you are gaining a rep for fucking up repos :P21:55
lcukfiferboy, he managed to screw up my package as well :D21:55
l7heh, i guess i have to get on a real computer to make comments21:55
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lcukreally l7?21:55
fiferboyWell, no one has beaten my 8MB/s memory leak in extras yet21:55
l7yeah, the tablet is a bit slow for it21:55
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lcukneeds more power21:56
GAN800Not many people get testing from Eero. :p21:56
l7the most useful features to me seem like the feature for sketching notes and finding them21:56
l7and reading text with that nice scrolling feature21:56
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lcukby the way, the cpu "performance" mode makes entire tablet more snappy, but if you have a leaky cpu app running it will drain battery faster21:56
lcukbut a smooth running tablet benefits21:56
qwerty12_N800fiferboy, 1.40, the stupid upnp code messed up... So I sent 1.34 to extras with the hildonized menus and the version as 1.40-2maemo3-1.34dgfix1 to make sure it gets "updated"...21:57
l7so ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~rf21:57
mikkov_this is interesting app
l7that was a weird effect21:57
qwerty12_N800lcuk, I call the Northerner thing realisation, not fucking up the repo :p21:57
lcukmikkov_, yeah it is isnt it21:57
fiferboymikkov_: Any luck with boost 1.36?21:57
lcukmikkov_, jager has made something aurally pleasing :)21:58
l7lcuk: isn't the cpu throttling stuff the same as the commandline stuff?21:58
lcukyeah l721:58
mikkov_fiferboy, not really21:58
Meiz_n810mikkov_ updated again?21:58
l7it's a neat gui interface though the best place for it seems to be in the power applet21:58
lcukl7, when i wrote it there was nothing available :)21:59
l7the blit test is cool though21:59
l7and so is the map and the multitouch test21:59
lcukif you are running at 640*480 its not fastest it can be either21:59
lcukcos its doing stretchblits instead of faster normal blits :)21:59
mikkov_serialization 1.34 doesn't link, and 1.36 doesn't even compile22:00
lcukive learnt a lot with liqbase :)22:00
* lcuk strokes it22:00
mikkov_but 1.34 works for armel22:00
lcukright, ive got some stuff i need to play with, bbl22:00
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l7does it take a while for everyone else to swap out of liqbase?22:00
lcukswap out?22:00
l7ie pressing to home key to get back to another app22:01
mikkov_fiferboy, it is possible to make serialization package only for armel ;)22:01
l7like irc :)22:01
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fiferboymikkov_: Do you know if you can have auto-builder not build the i386 version?22:01
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lcukl7, not sure i dont usually swap around, if i need to make a note of something i open write it down and close agian22:01
mikkov_fiferboy: sure22:02
lcukits probably me reacting incorrectly to specific events - for a long time it didnt react at all to task switching and would actually close itself totally22:02
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l7very neat app all around though22:02
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lcukyeah, and its just the start :)22:03
mikkov_but then anything which depends on armel only package needs to be armel only, which makes things complicated22:03
lcukive been finding out how to get this device to react how I expect it to :) now ive gotta move everything from the special case to the general case, and create a nice library so we can use it for anything22:03
lcuktheres so much potential in this little n8x0 :)22:04
mikkov_fiferboy, is serialization only thing which is needed for wesnoth from boost?22:04
l7is the blit test going to evolve into kinetic browsing?22:04
l7even image viewing with the multitouch pinch and zoom out would be neat22:05
lcukl7, not initially, theres too much to create a full on webbrowser (people will expect the kitchen sink) but i am aiming to start ball rolling with a full on html renderer22:05
lcuki only put in things which work on device22:05
lcukand im gonna let it grow steadily and find out where the roadblocks are22:06
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lcukmornin Myrtti22:06
fiferboymikkov_: Wesnoth need iostream, test, and serialization22:06
Myrttinaps ♥22:06
fiferboyThe unstable version starts to use regex22:07
lcuklol, evening rather :P22:07
l7lcuk: even something like links with multitouch would be pretty cool22:07
l7links the browser that is22:07
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lcukl7, yup i know, its in mind - have to suss out such basics as font coloring and scaling yet though ;)22:08
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mikkov_fiferboy, i am probably going to try armel only serialization22:09
l7the multitouch demo is neat too with the "hum" "finger" "ext" labels22:09
l7is the first label "huml"?22:10
l7what is ext?22:10
lcuki should really finish that off22:10
fiferboymikkov_: I think serialization is only a build-time requirement.  If I remember correctly, iostreams is the only boost I would need to install on the tablet (though I may have that backwards)22:11
lcukjust ext - it was very rushed, i have had it sitting there for a while22:11
l7it heats up the tablet quite a bit22:11
l7i guess it's using a lot of cpu22:12
lcukother things cropped up which required my attention, when im doing next image view ill have a proper documented test on screen, the rational for it is on liqbase.net22:12
l7i just hope it doesn't overheat anything22:12
lcukdepends what you are doing22:12
lcukbusy screens are busy..22:12
lcukmy tablet sits inside a wooden create with no backsize airholes22:12
lcukliqbase is running more or less continously (when its not its runnin ssh or gcc ;)22:13
l7wow, compiling on the tablet must take a long time22:14
lcukthe starfield clock is default screensaver
lcuknot at all22:14
lcukfull rebuild from source is about 3 minutes, incrimental builds for changed files is *faster* on device than it used to be in scratchbox+copy over network+execute22:15
lcuk3 mintues is just enough time to make a brew ;)22:15
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l7how did you get it to show the time?22:16
lcukie the same way i get it to show anything else :P22:18
lcukactually, hmmm thats old style22:18
l7does it start the screen saver after being idle for a set time?22:19
lcukno, just ocmes on when you start liqbase, ive had ponderments about actually making it a proper screensaver22:20
lcuk(or when you click stars)22:20
lcukahhhhh - i realised what you meant about the time question22:20
lcuksorry, this internal build of liqbase with just time hasnt been released22:21
l7ah okay22:21
lcuki forgot it used to show the date as well22:21
l7that saves me the trouble of trying to discover a feature that's not there then :)22:21
l7it's a cool feature to show off with22:22
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mikkov_fiferboy, actually static serialization libraries build for i386, it's the dynamic libraries which fail22:22
lcukit shouldnt be too long before the next release starts trickling out22:22
lcukbut im just solving issues at present and throwing away the test stuff and putting the proper stuff in now i know how things work and what people want22:22
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konttori_lcuk: I just voted and installed libqbase to my n800 (have it on n810, but now also on n800)22:23
lcukkonttori_, has the snow gotten worse or has it stopped now?22:24
konttori_snow is melting again22:25
konttori_still about 20 cm left, but melting quickly22:25
lcukwe had what i can call a blizzard, but it was pure slush, it was horrible22:25
lcuk:O 20cm22:25
konttori_it'll come again soon22:25
lcukholy mother of god22:25
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lcukyou said a sprinkling - i imagined still seeing rooftiles and roads and stuff22:25
lcukbut you could get lost under that much!22:25
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* lcuk learns the meaning of relativity22:27
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konttori_hey, lcuk: by the way, the multitouch test is cool22:28
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konttori_and works really well.22:29
lcukyeah konttori_ i couldnt test it on my device for a long time though - i have a dodgy screen which didnt respond properly to finger22:29
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konttori_I hit it with fingernails. then it works22:29
lcuktheres some edge cases still to be solved, but its certainly feasible22:30
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lcukoink! rst22:30
konttori_with fingernails I don't see any issues with it22:30
konttori_or with pen and finger22:30
lcukmy shiny new screen worked a treat, hence me adding it22:30
lcukfingerprints are a problem if you then go back to stylus, cos thats when you scratch it22:31
Stskeepsscreen protector++22:31
* lcuk cleans his 810 and stylus with wd4022:31
RST38hlcuk: isn't that for cooling when you overclock it?22:31
disco_stuwd40! it is oily22:31
l7wd40??  i hope that is a joke22:32
disco_stui had to soften my stylus with a knife22:32
disco_stubut wd40.. thats weird22:32
l7why did you have to soften your stylus?22:33
lcukno l7, it started as a test years ago on my pda22:33
l7did it scratch the screen?22:33
disco_stul7, yes22:33
lcuktiny bit on a rag - i dont hold the 810 up and coat it22:33
disco_stuthe protector luckily22:33
l7disco_stu: which tablet?22:33
l7hrm, i haven't noticed the stylus on my n800 to be too sharp22:34
l7i'm still using the default screen cover, which is scratched a bit of course22:34
l7lcuk:  i guess that makes sense as the 810 is all metal22:35
disco_stul7, it had some notch, when holding with the nokia logo looking down22:35
lcukl7, i mean on the screen, the case doesnt bother me22:35
lcukdisco_stu, they are called burrs22:35
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disco_stulcuk, thanks, my vocab is very limited :)22:36
l7disco_stu: do you tap straight towards the screen with the style?22:37
lcukive never noticed :)  is english not your native language?22:37
disco_stulcuk,  spanish is my native lang22:37
disco_stul7, in all ways22:37
l7i wonder if it's better to create a more rounded point or a larger flatter surface that touches the screen22:37
lcukheh disco_stu then im even more impressed - you certainly have nothing to worry about22:37
l7i use my finger or fingernail half the time anyway22:38
fiferboyqwerty12_N800: Do you still need a patch to fullscreen transmission?22:38
disco_stulcuk, thanks :)22:38
lcukrounded == best, then no matter what angle its even and reproducable22:38
lcukbut it needs to be smooth22:38
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l7yeah, the style seems pretty rounded the way it comes from the factory22:39
konttori_Hey, how do I get an avatar image to the planet maemo?22:39
lcukcrap, i was meant to be gone22:39
disco_stusmoothness thats the whole key22:39
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lcukkonttori_, i think its all linked to your account22:39
qwerty12_N800fiferboy, I've got one in there but I would really appriciate one that let you press the fullscreen button to do it (I suck with callback events) :)22:39
fiferboyI'll give it a go22:39
* lcuk changes his avatar22:39
lcuki hate having to go round loads of places to update it ;)22:40
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konttori_so, do I need to get a mugshot account?22:41
lcukyou use your account22:41
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lcukthen on the midguard thing where you can edit account, select "publish account details" and choose the public bits22:42
lcukone of them is select avatar22:42
lcukfrom your account22:43
fiferboyqwerty12_N800: How are you handling changes to the code?22:43
fiferboyWhat happens when you upgrade to the next version, do you reapply all the hacks?22:43
konttori_perfect. thanks!22:43
konttori_will need to fix it, but something to get away the ugly default icon22:44
qwerty12_N800fiferboy, yep, takes me a while but I don't really have much time to do much else to make it easier22:44
lcukheh yeah22:44
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qwerty12_N800So I just diff -ur the source in extras-devel against the same stock version :/22:45
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mikkov_qwerty12: I recommend keeping the changes in separate diff files22:46
mikkov_and use tools like quilt22:46
fiferboyqwerty12_N800: Where did you put your fullscreen function?22:47
qwerty12_N800mikkov_, Yeah, you are right and I shall do once I've learned to use it properly. thanks!22:47
fiferboyaction_fullscreen in actions.c?22:48
qwerty12_N800fiferboy, hrm, I think actions.c (but gets called from main.c)22:48
fiferboyHah, that's some compact code!  I prefer a little bit a whitespace...22:49
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mikkov_qwerty12: quilt is pretty easy. First export QUILT_PATCHES=debian/patches, then quilt new patch.diff, then quilt add file_to_patch.c, then make your changes, then quilt renew22:51
qwerty12_N800Wicked! Thanks mikkov_, i'll note that :)22:52
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mikkov_qwerty12: add "include /usr/share/quilt/quilt.make" to debian/rules and change build target to something like "build: patch build-stamp" to make patching really happen22:56
mikkov_and clean target to "clean: unpatch" to make it unpatch22:56
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lcukfiferboy, how much whitespace isnt there? - im a sucker for it, i edit on a big screen and spread my codeo ut23:01
qwerty12_N800gotcha.. I'll attempt quilt tomorrow, thanks again mikkov - should save me a lot of time23:01
fiferboy  if(gtk_toggle_action_get_active(_action))gtk_window_fullscreen(window);23:02
fiferboy  else gtk_window_unfullscreen(window);23:02
fiferboyNice and compact ;)23:02
lcukheh, qwerty, you need to become a perl coder23:03
lcukyour talents are wasted in c23:03
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fiferboyOne nice long perl line is all you need for most programs23:04
Proteousno one wastes talent programing c23:04
lcukalthough i suppose you could count _ as whitespace23:04
qwerty12_N800what talents, I can't code in any language :P23:04
lcuksure you can, i bet you are an expert at chav23:04
fiferboyqwerty12_N800: I think it is getting harder for you to convince people of that with all the improvements you make23:04
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qwerty12_N800lcuk, well, thinking about it, i do have a good talent for the north-sucks language :P23:05
qwerty12_N800fiferboy, it's just more about common sense and stealing others code :P23:06
lcukfiferboy, even if qwerty really does fly by his teeth he does soemthing few do: he has a go, usually it works - with a decent mentor qwerty will be excellent23:06
Stskeepsthe force is strong in this one23:06
fiferboyqwerty12_N800: That's half of what programming is!23:06
lcukive said all along, hes the ibm linux kid ;)23:06
lcukbut we best stop now, hes blushing23:07
fiferboyProblem solving and logic are important.  Semantics is something anyone can learn23:07
lcukyes fifer23:07
* lcuk is a bit miffed about somethin23:07
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GAN800Can we automatically decline people who talk about their 'n770'? :P23:09
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MyrttiGAN800: should I refer to my 770 always as Nokia Internet Tablet 770?23:10
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Stskeepsmy preciouss. :P23:13
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t_s_ois there a community mod out there that makes the file selector dialog window use more of the screen?23:23
lcukive not seen one tso, i agree its frustrating23:25
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GAN800Myrtti, '770'23:25
t_s_oespecially when one have file names that are longer then the window width, and only the last few letters are different...23:26
MyrttiGAN800: sadly outside the maemo community it's not widely recognized with just "770"23:26
GAN800Myrtti, nor is 'n770'23:26
Myrttia bit better to my experience, but ymmv. *shrug*23:27
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GAN800Either way, it's not a thing. :P23:27
`0660it's a partner? :)23:28
GAN800There's no such thing as an 'n770'23:28
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MyrttiI agree23:29
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Proteousnokia 77023:30
Proteousor just WSOD device23:30
Proteousor doorstop23:30
Proteousor thing I bought that supplied me with an extra charger for my n81023:30
lcukand a spare stylus23:31
`0660is it possible to install debian to 770 and get wireless working?23:32
johnxyes, I think so23:32
`0660that should keep it relatively useful23:33
b1ackdeathhas any gotten WifiZoo working?23:33
`0660provided that the screen won't die...23:34
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fiferboyqwerty12_N800: I'll try to get the patch to you tomorrow.23:36
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fiferboyIncidently, have you had any luck getting transmission to run in scratchbox?23:36
qwerty12_N800fiferboy, Thanks. No, I've never seen a need to.23:36
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fiferboyIt's faster to compile with make && make install than build a full deb if you have only made a few hanges.23:37
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fiferboyThen you can run it (in theory) in scratchbox to test it out.  But it always crashes out, at least in the armel environment23:37
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qwerty12_N800yeah, i just do a make ; strip gtk/transmission and then ssh the binary to my n80023:38
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fiferboyThat's another way to do it, but I am on an ad-hoc wireless that gets about 8 K/s23:43
fiferboyAnyway, got to go23:43
qwerty12_N800Heh, bye fiferboy23:43
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`0660qwerty12_N800, why do you strip gtk/transmission?23:45
qwerty12_N800`0660, If i do a make  in the transmission source, I get an unstripped binary in the gtk folder. As I don't plan to do any debugging (be useful if I could...) I figure a stripped binary is quicker to transfer23:47
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