IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2008-11-25

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RST38hl7: Who cares? :)00:00
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l7RST38h: you like reading from the tablet?00:01
l7i find reading too much text on an LCD gives me a headache00:02
* Stskeeps likes reading and annotating on tablet00:02
Stskeepsthough i wouldnt mind a way to show it on a bigger screen occasionally00:02
l7how do you annotate?00:02
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l7FBreader doesn't have that feature from what i recall00:02
aquatixl7: i puked when seeing that fugly pink android beast00:02
aquatix21:33:40        RST38h |
Stskeepsl7: xournal00:03
Stskeepsannotate pdf00:03
aquatixbut i then figured it was posten 1.5h ago ;)00:03
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l7aquatix: man that is ugly00:04
aquatixl7: yup...00:04
l7what are the knobs?00:04
l7are the nipples?00:04
aquatixi hope so00:04
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* aquatix wouldn't know, just got the link from RST38h 00:05
l7well there is that quote about the nipple being the only intuitive interface00:05
l7still, it seems wrong on a phone00:06
lcukits only wrong cos theres no milk00:06
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aquatixlcuk: well, i prefer them milkless generally00:07
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Stskeepswoo, \o/00:08
Stskeeps(heart means it compiled for both source, i386 and armel)00:08
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lcukahhhh stage 2, to examine that API you must first know how to unlock the bra00:08
RST38hl7: Yea, tablet reading is fine with me00:09
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RST38hAlthough in a pinch I can even read off E7000:09
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lcukshould i annotate my text or should i textify my sketches ..00:11
lcukor should i turn my text into annotations00:11
Juhazthrow dice?00:12
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lcukfirstly i best undo the double buffering00:12
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RST38hDo the boring stuff first00:15
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RST38hMake it a real app, UI, icons, installer, etc00:15
lcukyes, which is why ive been pondering colored glyph rendering00:15
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lcukstill have limitations00:16
RST38hlcuk: For UI, use white icons with black outlines - it is the standard way to show contrast icons00:16
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lcukmmm the whole ui is black anyway00:17
RST38hCheck out this screenshot:
RST38hGood example of how to do UI in applications where you do not control what is underneath00:17
lcukits the text color thats limited, not images or sketches00:18
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RST38hlcuk: right - they are the background in this case =)00:19
RST38hlcuk: but UI icons will also be limited in color, just like text because you want them to stand out above background00:19
lcukthats not important for now though, as i said icons can be anything i want them to be00:20
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lcukthe algo quite simply will not render anything other than white text on a background00:21
lcukso if i have a white background i see nothing00:21
lcuki have to alpha blend the text00:22
lcukwhich will slow it down dramatically00:22
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lcuki can sidestep the issue by actually rendering hand drawn sketches as glyphs, but i have been looking at alternatives using ttf still00:23
RST38hWhat do you need the text anyway?00:25
Stskeepslcuk: why isn't freetype usable btw?00:26
lcuki dont, but if people want to read documents with a white background (as has been requested) then it has to work00:26
Stskeepsi mean, you can't be the first with a YUV backend :P00:26
lcukfreetype returns a greyscale bitmap, this still needs colorizing and blitting00:26
RST38hlcuk: But this does nt sound like must-have functionality00:27
lcukand, yes i can00:27
Stskeepslcuk: ah00:27
RST38hDecent UI is a must have though00:27
lcukRST38h, its been an annoyance for a while00:27
lcuki agree, it all goes hand in hand00:27
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lcukim right in the core again and whilst im here im trying to make sure ive catered for everything required00:28
lcukthe next step is the tile based widget sets and explicitely the ->textcolor property...00:28
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lcukok, supposing i left it as a stub00:29
lcukill leave a big todo and a few links about what ive discovered and the directions ive tried00:30
lcukso it will be easier for myself (or someone else) to pickup later :)00:30
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Stskeeps.. you know you've been working in academic setting too long when it comes easily to you to come up with paper titles00:31
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lcukemma, i smiled, was anything meant to happen?00:35
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emmalcuk: now you feel good about yourself :)00:41
lcuk:D excellent, i thought it was an inventive way to get emotes into flat text irc00:42
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* lcuk kicks double buffering to the kirb00:50
lardmanhey gary, how's things?00:52
lcuktough, im trying to fix a limitation, can only draw fonts in white on a dark background, wanting to allow any color00:53
lardmanfonts, sounds like something to do with a gui to me... ;)00:54
lcukis everything ok with you?00:54
lardmanyeah not bad, pretty busy00:54
lcukarent we all00:54
lardmanso true, and pretty much all non-busy time is spent xmas shopping, uurgh00:55
lcuki did find one way to solve my crisis by the way, but its kinda strange00:55
lcukmmm xmas shopping, yes00:55
lcuki tihnk tracy already got most tihngs00:55
lcukthink and things00:57
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lcuklardman,   barring actually correctly scaling them, a handwritten font is colorable, scalable and rotatable  and relatively fast01:00
lcuk(the scaling is not done because im not sure if i want to continue01:01
lardmancool, looks very nice01:01
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lcukfor a ransom note01:01
lardmanhow do you decide which bits are which colours, do the gaps in the strokes separate the objects?01:01
lardmanso it does recognition too then?01:02
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lcuki make a grid01:02
lcukthen just draw the font, the colorization at the moment is just something none white01:02
lcukits rotated wrong in that one, hang on01:03
lardmanah, so it's not handwritten, it's your own font01:03
lardmanthat's ok, I understand01:03
lardmanthe GPL is not handwritten that is, you just rendered it using your custom hand-written font glyphs01:03
lardmancool :)01:04
lcukyeah, when it comes to a point when it needs to render a glyph, if there is a sketch in the table it will use it01:04
lcukjust fannying around, but getting ideas for other things01:05
lardmannext thing is to replace entire words with images/sketches01:05
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lardmanso if you write "bacon" you get a rasher rather than words :)01:06
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lcuk:) you mean after writing a word simply be able to physics it ;)01:06
lcuki was thinking more bacon becomes a gateway to rasherworld01:06
lardmanyes, physicing words would be cool too01:06
lcukclick and open the whole bacon info01:06
lcukhyperlinks :)01:06
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lcukbut hand drawn01:06
lardmanclick and it turns on your auto-grill, connected via wifi01:07
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: am i supposed to be able to edit on wiki without https?01:11
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Stskeepsthere you are02:03
Stskeepsi wondered if we sent you to a mental institution :P02:03
johnxnope. friends over the last couple days, and thanksgiving in this part of the world02:03
johnxmy computer desk was covered in pots and pans and other people's stuff02:04
Stskeepsok, so, jaunty armel targets armv5 and will provide vfp packages, armv7t, etc for the libraries that will need it, but using hwcap, so the baseline is armv5t02:04
Stskeepsaccording to the peeps in there02:05
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johnxwhat is jaunty's coverage like?02:05
Stskeepsthey are making huge leaps these days02:05
Stskeepsthey have full ubuntu-desktop or close to it by now02:05
Stskeepsmy idea for a motion is that we scrap mojo for now and base on top of jaunty-i386 and -armel, - it's going to be a while yet before we're at a more modern us like icy/intrepid02:06
Stskeepsand jaunty gives us both 'armel' and a i386 version02:06
johnxleaving mojo on the back burner sounds fine for now02:07
Stskeepsi've been busy so now we have a good deal of i386 packages (beagleboard is crapping out my mmcs), and a qemu builder going at it atm02:07
Stskeepsis what i've worked a bit on tonight02:07
johnxare all your mmcs the same brand?02:07
Stskeepsyeah, kingston02:07
johnxThey always say "correlation isn't causation" but in this case I'd start to question that02:08
Stskeepsyeah.. :P02:08
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johnxgah, alright time to get up to speed on bzr02:10
lcukStskeeps, get it on asus eee top, advantage being cheap desktop touch02:10
lcukit will flow02:10
Stskeepshehe, im not 100% positive i like bzr yet.. it has -weird- attitudes :P02:10
Stskeepsbut is ok otherwise02:10
Stskeepsjohnx: basically work process now is, bzr push to launchpad, ask builder to build it in a clean chroot, first source, then i386, then armel02:11
Stskeepsif it doesn't build in your personal i386 chroot, it definately won't on armel either02:11
lcukgnite anyway02:11
Stskeepsgnite lcuk02:11
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lcuklooks good btw sts02:11
johnx'night lcuk02:14
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johnxhey rm_you :)02:15
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Stskeeps(and my roadmap is not definate, it's a result of me not sleeping enough and being bored at 1am. :P)02:15
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Stskeepsright, i think i'm off to collapse in bed02:29
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l7wow, i managed to break my application menu by installing something02:31
l7good thing i still have personal menu i guess02:31
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l7weird, it's just grayed out in Control Panel > Panels02:33
l7i wonder if running out of space on my root partition caused it to get corrupted02:35
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johnx'night Stskeeps02:37
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l7i wonder if it's a geek lifestyle thing to stay up on the computer until some ungodly hour then roll into bed02:38
l7i did that yesterday for some reason02:38
johnxi tend to do that most of the time02:43
johnxI hate not being able to get to sleep so I never crawl into bed until I'm falling asleep at my keyboard02:43
l7yeah, i think sitting in front of the computer is a bit of a stimulant, at least for me02:44
l7the light from the screen encourages wakefulness at the very least02:44
l7not to mention the concentration on whatever you're doing02:45
johnxalso the posture02:46
johnxI tend to fall asleep quicker reading in bed on my tablet02:46
l7yeah, that's true02:46
johnxthe sitting upright, leaning forward bit02:46
johnxbut I think you're right about it being related to concentration and doing something more active than just reading or just watching TV02:47
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l7there are lot of web pages and books that talk about how to get to sleep on a regular schedule02:51
l7most of them recommend laying off the computer and TV a few hours before going to bed02:51
l7too bad that's also the most convenient time to get on the computer for a lot of people02:52
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johnxand it always seems like just as you're about to leave someone shows up :)02:52
l7yeah, i remember lots of times where irc conversations kept me from getting to bed on time02:53
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lcukjohnx, most likely because you are compressing the veins in your neck and lowering the blood supply to your brain :P02:56
l7Robot102: heh, nice one02:56
johnxthat's why people join IRC? because I compress my vains? :P02:56
lcukno, thats why you sleep02:57
l7lcuk: wait, you mean by lying down and reading on the tablet?02:57
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jagernothi all, please to let you know that i have released boxar-1.0...a musical instrument for maemo...  screenshot & sound shot available02:58
jagernotwill be pleased to hear your comments.02:58
jagernotits works on my n81002:58
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l7hey, roxterm has a cut and paste keyboard shortcut03:00
l7now i can copy that url easily03:00
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Chikusomeone already install deblet on a nokia?03:11
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johnxyes, I have :)03:11
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johnxwhat do you want to know about it?03:11
Chikuis based on lenny? etch? sid?03:12
Chikuxfce as wm?03:12
johnxsid or lenny03:12
johnxlxde as the wm03:12
Chikulol possible with fluxbox?03:13
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johnxwell lxde uses openbox, so yes03:13
johnxit's just a normal debian install for the most part03:13
Chikuwhich nokia did you installed?03:14
Chikudo you think you can play xvid higher resolution witouth lag?03:14
l7hrm, interesting question03:15
johnxhigher than with OS2008/Maemo? no definitely not03:15
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johnxthat's a hardware limitation03:15
Chikuwith mplayer03:15
l7are the drivers on deblet not as good as on maemo?03:15
l7i just noticed that mplayer will play's shows in large xvid format which is pretty cool :)03:16
l7it's a little choppy at times though03:16
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l7Chiku: how big are the xvids that you're playing?03:17
johnxif you got the maemo version of mplayer installed in deblet it should play exactly the same03:17
Chiku720x400 :)03:17
Chikunot asking about HD :p03:18
johnx640x480 is kind of a stretch03:18
johnx720x400 @ 15fps is probably doable03:18
l7i wonder if there any kernel tweaks that might improve playback03:19's a hardware issue03:19
l7so there's no amount of tweaking any area of the software that will help?03:20
johnxthat's right03:20
l7maybe just get an n900 then :)03:20
johnxit's a limitation on the bandwidth to the LCD controller03:20
l7without that bottleneck, could the rest of the hardware handle 720p?03:21
l7at 24fps03:21
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johnxwithout that bottleneck the rest of the hardware might be able to handle 800x480 @ 24fps under really optimal conditions03:22
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ChikuI already try with 640x480, you think it's better with 720x400?03:23
johnxdo the math and see :)03:23
johnx640 x 480 x 24fps x 16bit = ???03:23
johnxthen do the same for 720x40003:23
johnxwhichever is smaller will play better03:24
l7seems like it depends on the dimensions of your video though03:24
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l7has anyone else noticed their N800 charges really slowly?03:39
johnxlots of things can affect charging speed03:39
johnxespecially: power draw on the n800 while it's charging03:39
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johnxwell this is particularly weird: sapwood is perfectly happy on one ARMv5te device but not on another03:49
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l7oops, that bluetooth repeat rate is still out of wack03:56
l7johnx: how long does it take to recharge your N800 from the point where it gives a low battery warning?03:57
l7assuming the tablet is more or less idle03:57
johnxI don't really remember03:57
johnxI just plug it in and use it that way when I'm at home03:57
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l7i have to admit i like apple's quick charge feature on their devices04:15
l7my new phone, not an iphone, also charges fairly quickly04:16
l7my old one took forever04:16
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Proteousyeah, the increased chance of having a battery burn fiercly in my pocket just brings new adventure and excitement to my life04:48
johnxheh...everyone wants longer battery life but the more stored energy you have the bigger bang it makes when it sets itself on fire :)04:49
johnxwell the bigger the lithium-ion battery you have the more lithium is in it04:50
johnxever see a little chunk of lithium burn?04:50
Proteoussure, if we are talking about just lithium ion batteries04:51
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Proteousbut there are other energy storage mediums that don't explode like that :)04:51
johnxlike fuel cells? :P04:52
Proteousheh, no04:52
ProteousI wouldn't use fuel cells as an example of a medium that wouldn't explode04:52
johnxnimh, nicd, sla and alkalines are better but they all have one thing in common: lower energy density04:53
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l7some science recently came out on the possibility of making batteries that run on sugar04:57
johnxat a decent density?04:57
johnxpotatoes work too :)04:57
l7yeah, let me find the link04:57
ProteousI want supercapacitors04:58
Proteousor some sort of bio battery that runs on farts04:58
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johnxultracapacitors scare me a little as well04:58
Proteousalthough then there is the problem of getting the farts into the battery04:58
Proteousjust don't bridge the contacts and you'll be fine04:58
l7they were talking about using this to power devices  for the military04:59
l7since when you're in the field, getting a bit of plant sap to charge up your gear would be useful for them05:00
johnxProteous, or feed the capacitors too much voltage :)05:01
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johnxI'm gathering that those sugar based batteries don't produce much power05:03
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, you fail at wiki links. :P06:49
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slonopotamusanyone has 2.6.25 kernel for n800?07:10
slonopotamusnaive question, i know07:11
johnxnot really that naive07:12
johnxI think some people have been playing, but I'm not sure they've been sharing :)07:12
GeneralAntillesYeah, with the new wifi driver it's a lot more feasible07:12
GeneralAntillesI don't think there are any usable binaries floating around, though.07:12
slonopotamusi'm asking because previous versions have kinda broken oabi-chroot-inside-eabi-system07:14
* rm_you waves at johnx 07:23
johnx'lo again rm_you07:23
johnxI didn't expect to see you for a month07:23
rm_youwe're over here07:23
rm_youso i have online times :P07:24
johnx"we're over here" means absolutely nothing to me07:24
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johnxmorning solmumaha07:26
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zaltair_or evening .. ??   you are from europe right?07:41
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant.
zaltair_ouch ... !!07:42
johnxit's just a funny IRC thing07:42
johnxno ouch needed :)07:42
zaltair_i din'd know that07:42
johnxit's not really a "rule" just something funny07:43
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zaltair_DaCe|ge: morning !!07:43
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slonopotamusfunny ;)07:46
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johnxanyone else here with a pxa270?07:59
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ProteousI had that once, my doctor game my some antibiotics and it cured it08:08
* johnx bangs his head against his desk08:09
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GeneralAntillesjohnx, having fun withsomething? :P08:09
johnxsapwood on the zaurus08:09
johnxremember when I was trying to figure this out like 6 months ago?08:09
johnxI do too08:09
johnxit's no the x server, and it works on other ARMv5 machines08:10
GeneralAntillesjohnx, you should file a bug.08:10
johnxand it's not sapwood08:10
GeneralAntilles"DIE, SAPWOOD! DIE!"08:10
johnxsapwood seems to be triggering a bug in something else08:11
johnxI think it has to be in libX11 or libXext or something on a similar level08:11
johnxeither that or some really spooky honest-to-god hardware bug in my CPU08:12
johnxhence a call for other PXA270 owners08:12
johnxseriously, anyone? I'll buy you a beer and I'll ship it (!)08:13
GeneralAntillesThe beer is a lie!08:13
johnxthe beer is delicious08:13
johnxand if no one steps up I'll just drink it myself08:13
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johnxha! has to be in libX11 or libXext08:16
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johnxsoooo far off the weirdness scale08:28
solmumahado the sharp and give up before it's too late08:28
johnxI'm close this time. I can taste it08:32
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johnxok, well that's a *different* problem08:34
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Meiz_n810midori is no more installable on jaunty???09:17
Meiz_n810it was...09:17
Meiz_n810midori is in deblet repo?09:18
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hahlobitStskeeps: can i have local matchbox-keyboard somehow in deblet?09:36
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GeneralAntillesAnybody else like the idea of a short, bi-monthly, "highlights in the Maemo Community" column for the council blog?09:41
GeneralAntillesSo far that "community aggregation" we were shooting for has been me (and nobody else) talking about things that interest me.09:42
GeneralAntillesWhy is great for me and people that are interested in the things I'm interested in, but tends to leave a lot out.09:42
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GeneralAntillesSo, if we were to look at the last 2 weeks, we'd have short paragraphs on Mer, Canola in Bugzilla, the server improvements, and the design stuff.09:44
hahlobitdoes maemo-devs know what apps people are using, and perhaps like to use these tablets?09:47
GeneralAntilleshahlobit, who are "maemo-devs"?09:48
hahlobitmaybe people who nokia pays?09:48
GeneralAntillesAh, OK, people working for Maemo Software09:49
GeneralAntillesUm, well,
GeneralAntillesThose have both had quite a bit of play within Nokia.09:49
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GeneralAntillesFremantle Stars is still under review.09:49
GeneralAntillesSo, yeah, I'd say they have a pretty good idea.09:50
GeneralAntillesThere's also a boatload of stats available from downloads.maemo.org09:50
hahlobitok sometines just wonder to who is tablets made for09:52
GeneralAntillesWell, Nokia is interested in building a strong community around it before they really push it for end users.09:53
GeneralAntillesWe're on step 3 of a 5 step program to putting together the "kick ass end-user-ready tablet"09:53
GeneralAntillesWhich is why they do things like the contributor discount program and such09:54
hahlobitoh i see09:54
hahlobitnot for geeks or sysadmins then but for average joe09:57
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GeneralAntillesUgh, TinyMCE sucks.10:05
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* GeneralAntilles stabs his eyes out.10:10
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GeneralAntillesOh lord, no wonder's HTML looks like shit10:34
GeneralAntillesIt's TinyMCE10:34
GeneralAntilles<p> </p> for linebreaks . . . nice.10:34
GeneralAntillesWYSIWYG editor10:34
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: There are some settings.10:34
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Maybe we can tweak them.10:35
GeneralAntilles<h3 style="font-size: 1.17em;"> . . . what?10:35
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JasonWoofI'm having major problems with browser lately10:46
GeneralAntillesAlright, how's this format?
JasonWoofit starts up, and then says "updating..." forever10:46
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JasonWoofthat a known problem?10:47
JasonWoofI have n810 diablo10:48
GeneralAntilles /etc/init.d/tablet-browser-daemon restart10:49
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JasonWoofalso, is there a lightweight graphical browser like dillo or links2 -g ported?'10:50
GeneralAntillesBoth, probably.10:50
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: looks good10:51
JaffaMorning all10:52
GeneralAntillesHi, Jaffa.10:52
* Stskeeps curses his headache10:54
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aquatixhm, speaking of MicroB, the gecko version is still from that firefox 3 beta?10:55
aquatixit'd be nice if that was updated :/10:55
GeneralAntillesalpha 110:56
GeneralAntillesWell, it definitely will for Fremantle10:56
GeneralAntillesDunno about Diablo.10:56
aquatixmeh :)10:56
* aquatix wonders whether fremantle will run on his n81010:57
X-Fadeaquatix: I'm sure that at least parts will.10:57
X-FadeApart from the hardware specific things for OMAP3..10:58
* Stskeeps wonders how much of Mer will run on a 770..10:58
GeneralAntillesI'm actually not particularly worried about it either way10:58
GeneralAntillesIt should be pretty straightforward for the community to roll their own support for OMAP2 devices.10:58
GeneralAntillesEasier than it would've been to roll support for the 770, anyway.10:58
aquatixour community is awesome as is :)10:58
aquatixi guess10:59
aquatixis that because the 770 is too constrained?10:59
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GeneralAntillesCombination of Maemo being more open now (wifi driver helps a LOT)10:59
GeneralAntillesand a little less hardware constraint10:59
GeneralAntillesI mean, OMAP2 is constrained compared to OMAP310:59
GeneralAntillesBut it's a lot better than OMAP1 in the grand scheme.10:59
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GeneralAntillesSome Fremantle tech is gonna make it to Diablo anyway11:00
GeneralAntillesTracker should be getting a beta release on Diablo.11:01
Stskeepsif they keep on publishing in trunk.. :P11:01
GeneralAntillesand it'll be a lot easier to get the new browser running on old hardware when it's all open source. ;)11:01
* Stskeeps was planning on going for tear or something ;>11:01
* aquatix should take a look at the changes in fremantle11:02
GeneralAntillesaquatix, there's a package diff for the alpha SDK release on somewhere11:03
GeneralAntillesand wikipedia has a decent overview.11:03
* Stskeeps is still dissatisfied libhildon doesn't seem to be updated in public but that may be part of a bigger strategy11:03
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, prod somebody about it?11:04
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i only have the suspiscion cos hildon control panel requires hildon-pannable-area.h, and this is nowhere to be seen11:04
Stskeepsand if i was nokia, i would sure as hell not want to give chinese producers a head start :P11:05
GeneralAntillesWell, you can never be certain unless you ask. :)11:05
GeneralAntillesIt could be as simple as a mistake11:05
GeneralAntillesalarmd is actually open, but the source (still) isn't available.11:05
GeneralAntillesWhat license is it under, anyway?11:05
GeneralAntillesWhen should we start suing?11:05
Stskeepsalarmd is possible to get through old versions11:05
Stskeepsand it's fairly easy to implement, too11:06
GeneralAntillesAnyway, it could be a simple oversight, so prodding some people may induce results. ;)11:07
Stskeepsyeah, i might.. just have to get over the next couple of days and let the builders churn away11:08
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Stskeepswe haven't reached that level of sanity just yet :P11:08
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StskeepsGTK has been compiling for 9 1/2 hours so far on ARM11:09
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woglindeStskeeps lol11:09
Stskeepsworst part is it's not the compilation that takes a long time11:09
Stskeepsit's doc generation11:09
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RST38hSts: Overclock it!11:25
RST38hSts: Are you willing to submerge your Beagle in motor oil? =)11:26
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StskeepsRST38h: beagle has already killed two MMCs.. its in a qemu arm now11:26
RST38h(btw, why do you want to generate docs? on an ARM?)11:26
GeneralAntillesRST38h, it's not the heat that's the issue.11:26
Stskeepsnature of gtk debian packages11:27
Stskeepsit builds docs anyway11:27
RST38hGeneral: Who knows? I don't think anybody has tried that so far11:27
RST38hMay be the heat or just plai nunability of the silicon to run at higher frequency11:27
GeneralAntillesRST38h, well, TI engineers that I've talked to know. :P11:27
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RST38hGeneral: Oh, the engineers will always tell you not to exceed whatever is written in the datasheet =)11:28
GeneralAntillesYou could run it at 900MHz easily11:28
GeneralAntillesbut the life expectancy at that voltage goes way down11:28
GeneralAntillesNot only engineers11:28
RST38hYou mean, they are saying you can run it at higher clock if you raise the core voltage?11:28
RST38hAnd at higher core voltage it will die sooner but won't heat up in the process?11:29
GeneralAntillesThat was my understanding11:29
GeneralAntillesI'm certain it'll run faster11:29
GeneralAntillesBut I don't believe it's the heat that kills it11:30
GeneralAntillesAdmittedly I'm not an EE, so I don't really no. ;)11:30
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Admittedly I'm knowt an EE, so I don't really no. ;)11:31
GeneralAntillesI also fail at English11:31
* RST38h kinda suspects that anything up to 650MHz will be ok, but not all chips will function reliably at this clock rate11:32
RST38hBut it usually heat that kills it and of course it heats up more when you raise core voltage11:33
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hahlobitStskeeps: can matchbox-keyboard be set local languages or is it english only?11:42
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* GeneralAntilles thinks up more random shit for X-Fade to fix. :P11:57
X-FadeHeh, that took you a while to notice ;)11:57
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* RST38h has got some11:57
RST38hX-Fade: When not logged in, go to Downloads page and try to login11:58
RST38hX-Fade: Once you submit your name/password, the will return you back to http://... URL you came from, without showing your login status11:58
RST38hX-Fade: It should really direct you to https://... URL where it correctly shows that you are logged in11:59
X-FadeRST38h: It behaves as designed?11:59
RST38hThis bug only occurred recently though11:59
X-FadeWe force you back to http after login.11:59
RST38hX-Fade: I don't think this is by design. When you log in (type your credentials) it should SHOW you logged in11:59
X-FadeBut I see logged in status directly after the redirect?11:59
RST38hWith http:// it never shows me logged status12:00
RST38hsame shit12:00
GeneralAntillesbergie, ping.12:00
X-FadeWorks in all my browsers.12:00
X-FadeRST38h: try adding ?blalala to the url ?12:01
RST38hAh, this worked12:01
X-FadeSounds like a cache somewhere ;)12:01
RST38hWeird. We do go through a proxy here, so that may be the reason12:01
GeneralAntillesThe new Midgard toolbar seems way buggier than the old one.12:03
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X-FadeRST38h: Is your karma better now?12:05
RST38hdunno, lemme check12:07
GeneralAntillesHe's got no Thanks.12:07
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RST38hX-Fade: Yep, no itt thanks section12:07
RST38hAlthough it is definitely counted into the total12:07
RST38hI think lardman has got the same kind of a problem12:07
X-FadeHmm yeah weird, as I see this on recount: (karma: 603.5 comments: 4 favourites: 2.5 buries: 1 blogs: 0 products: 350 discussion: 8 groups: 3 bugzilla_reported: 64 bugzilla_comments: 7 itt_thanks: 131 itt_posts: 19 mediawiki_edits: 14)12:08
RST38hLooks correct12:08
X-Fadeyeah, so now I need to debug why it doesn't show it.12:08
RST38hCheck if there is a hardcoded limit on the number of karma sections12:09
GeneralAntillesI'm pretty sure it's a Nokia conspiracy12:09
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RST38hI know it sounds stupid, but it would not be illogical12:09
X-FadeNo, it is not there.12:09
X-FadeBecause it does show for me or GA for example.12:10
GeneralAntillesWonder if INdT is gonna come up with anything cool for the profile page.12:11
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: There is a lot of layout work to be done ;)12:12
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GeneralAntillesI don't envy the work involved. :\12:12
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woglindehi lardman12:17
lardmanhey woglinde12:17
RST38hlardman moo12:18
lardmanhello RST38h12:18
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bergieGeneralAntilles: pong12:36
GeneralAntillesbergie, are there open tickets about the new midgard toolbar?12:37
bergienot IIRC12:37
GeneralAntillesIn WebKit I can't move it, I just select lots of text when I try, and FireFox 3 (PPC Mac) I can move it, but it also selects lots of text when I do.12:37
GeneralAntillesSeems like a bit of a regression from the last version.12:37
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bergieGeneralAntilles: ok... it was migrated to jQuery for the Ragnaroek upgrade12:38
Stskeepshahlobit: i have no clue. possibly12:41
GeneralAntillesDoes the toolbar work normally for other people?12:41
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X-FadeWorks for me in ff3.12:42
X-FadeAnd even IE.12:43
Luriaanyone know the contrast ratio of the n800 screen?12:45
qwerty12Works here in FF3 on Ubuntu. But like GeneralAntilles says, it does select text sometimes but it's nothing major imo12:45
Luriaor the contrast ratio of cell type lcds in general?12:46
GeneralAntillesContrast ratios are so bogus12:46
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GeneralAntillesI don't even see the toolbar on Opera 912:46
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Luriastill, i need a ballpark number12:47
GeneralAntillesA little above average?12:48
GeneralAntillesMaybe 300:112:48
jagernotlardman: i heard u work on maemo sound api..true?12:49
Luriasounds about what i thought.12:49
Luriabig help12:49
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GeneralAntillesHrm, X-Fade, the Council RSS seems a bit stale.
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lardmanjagernot: not really, i do some DSP hacking12:50
jagernotlardman: hmm btw do you know how to capture microphone? - esound instead of gstreamer?12:51
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Let me try something.12:51
lardmanjagernot: no, I'm afraid not12:52
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jagernoti want to do something like RjDj on n81012:54
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jagernoti cant read mic using totally crashes the tablet12:54
lardmanwhy not use gstreamer?12:54
jagernoti dont know how to get sample data out of gstreamer12:54
jagernotdsppcmsrc -> dsppcmsink12:54
jagernothow do i get samples from dsppcmsrc without writing to file and reading it12:55
lardmanyou read it into your pipeline12:55
jagernotso i setup dsppcmsrc12:55
jagernotas my source12:55
jagernotthen connect it to what to get samples piped to me?12:56
lardmanyeah, and out the end of the pipeline you should get a buffer filled with some number of samples12:56
lardmanthat's my understanding anyway12:56
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lardmanwhat does the maemo-recorder app do?12:56
lardmanpipes straight to file?12:56
jagernotno samples handled anywhere as much i can see12:57
lardmanthat sounds like it outputs to the speaker...?12:57
jagernotyeah when playing it does12:57
jagernotthen it creates a file sink12:57
lardmancan it record to file?12:57
jagernotand outs when saving12:57
lardmando you have an url to save me searching?12:58
jagernoturl for what?12:58
lardmanyeah, whatever you're basing on12:59
lardmandon't worry, I'vegot it12:59
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jagernotlardman, ok filesink->dsppcmsink for playing file13:04
jagernotand dsppcmsrc, filesink for recording13:05
lardmanyeah, what does wavparse do?13:05
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lardmanin any case it ought to be possible, not sure how off the top of my head13:06
lardmancheck the gstreamer docs or a guru if there's one around?13:06
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lardmannot quite the same, as this is for images, but search for the following "Set image sink to emit handoff-signal before throwing away"13:08
lardmanlooks like you could create a fake sink, and get it to signal, then grab the data from its buffer; presumably the same thing will work for you13:08
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jagernothmm yeah thanks will look into it13:09
lardmannot that I was actually very helpful of course :)13:09
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* GeneralAntilles ponders how we're gonna dole out these bi-monthly community updates. . . .13:18
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: take in interesting developments in community?13:20
Stskeepsi mean, of interesting things there are pybattery, management tools, .. others13:20
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GeneralAntillesMostly I'm thinking the rest of the council should make some posts already. :P13:21
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Stskeepsyeah, :P13:24
GeneralAntilleslardman seems the least busy, so I'm thinking I should target him. :P13:25
lardmanleast busy is why I'm not seen much these days13:26
Stskeepsheh, didn't know you were on council :P13:27
lardmaneasier to spy on you lot that way ;)13:27
lardmandidn't you see me talk at the summit>?13:28
Stskeepsi wasn't at the summit13:28
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lardmanyeah, there was a recording too though13:29
* GeneralAntilles glares at lardman.13:29
* lardman looks back over his pile of papers to write and samples to test13:29
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lardmanGeneralAntilles: so what would you like me to do then>?13:35
GeneralAntillesBlog about something community-relevant. :P13:35
GeneralAntillesWell, more specifically, compile a Community Highlights post in 2 weeks.13:36
lardmangrrr, blogging13:36
GeneralAntillesIt's easy, just pick out some of the more interesting thing that will have happened in the next 2 weeks, compile some links and a short summary and post away:
lardmanso I should shine my crystal ball too then? ;)13:37
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GeneralAntillesThey'll have happened in 2 weeks. :P13:38
lardmanso you're after only stuff in the next 2 weeks, or the state of the art?13:38
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GeneralAntilles2 weeks from now, write a summary of all the most of the community-relevant stuff that's happened between now and then13:39
GeneralAntillesSo if we finalize a new style, mention that13:39
GeneralAntillesEither that, or get Jaffa/tim/etrunko to do it. :P13:39
* lardman grubmles about needing to write about stuff that doesn't interest him13:40
GeneralAntillesOr trade me for something of equal or greater value.13:40
lardmannow you're talking13:40
* GeneralAntilles may have discovered a great motivator.13:41
lardmanlet me have a look around this evening, pretty busy all day I'm afraid13:41
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: there should be coming SDK and other stuff out in two weeks i guess?13:42
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, seems like a probability.13:42
GeneralAntillesThe council will hear something sometime before the actual public announcement is made, and we haven't heard anything yet, soooo. . . .13:43
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qwerty12Grr, bollocks, new transmission release. And after I'd made the ui better on 1.34...13:55
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hahlobitStskeeps: is deblet kernel same than maemo?14:02
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Stskeepshahlobit: yes14:09
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cy3o3anyone know if there's something up with the maemo repositories?14:12
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cy3o3every time I try to install an app the bitch just hangs at "preparing for installation, please wait"14:12
GeneralAntillesThe bitch? lol. . .14:13
X-Fadecy3o3: What application are you trying to install?14:13
cy3o3initially ukmp14:13
cy3o3then iphome14:13
cy3o3both just hung..14:13
cy3o3perhaps I'll boot the bitch14:14
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, I know, first time I've heard h-a-m referred as a bitch :P14:14
GeneralAntillesapt-get install ukmp will probably be enlightening.14:15
cy3o3I have an sshd on it14:15
cy3o3but uhhh, how do I get the ip?14:15
cy3o3cat /etc/hosts ?14:15
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cy3o3ifconfig is not on there..14:15
cy3o3iphome seems a necessity14:16
qwerty12cy3o3, /sbin/ifconfig  | grep "inet addr"14:16
cy3o3ah so it is there, just not in my path14:16
cy3o3awesome.. thanks14:16
GeneralAntillesOr just open up Connection manager14:16
lardmancy3o3: it's not in your path as you're presumably not root14:19
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cy3o3lardman: kew thanks mang14:21
cy3o3I'm all ssh'd in now 'n stuff so should be cake from here14:21
cy3o3anyone have any thoughts on ukmp vs canola?14:21
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lcukGeneralAntilles, have you tried the new ukmp14:37
lcukrotated aspect seems more logical for handheld use :)14:37
lcuki get a sore neck though when using kickstand/crate14:37
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cy3o3just installed ukmp 1.7 then installed manually the 1.82 package and it just crashes trying to read the ID info from my music14:42
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lcukmust have the wrong kind of music then14:42
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cy3o3all mp3s14:42
lcuki think kontorri is into lift muzak, check your collection uses that and try again :D14:42
lcuki dunno why it would crash tbh14:43
lcukworked fine for the 5 albums ive got here (certainly better than canola has ever done)14:43
lcuki at least see albums in ukmp14:43
cy3o3I have like 7gb14:44
cy3o3maybe it's choking on that for some reason14:44
Stskeepssetting system clock to 2108-11-25 12:44:11 UTC (88323355)14:44
X-FadeHeh, classic y2k problem ;)14:45
Stskeepsim astonished linux even functios14:45
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lcukStskeeps,  linux functions but you wont get any software updates and i think gps will notlock itself correctly14:49
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hahlobiti managed change keyboard layout but got € and no number 4 anymore :P14:53
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hahlobitbut as a n800 user, nice to know that layout obeys .matchbox/keyboard.xml14:56
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lcukmmmm thankyou14:57
lcukhahlobit, you just anszwered a question ive pondered about :D14:59
cy3o3ukmp works now14:59
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lcukexcellent, told oyu muzak was all you needed14:59
cy3o3I had some filenames with interesting characters in them14:59
cy3o3just blew that out and works dandy :)  wewt15:00
lcukheh cool15:00
lcukbbiab anywa15:00
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riotmy n810 doesn't recognize the sd-card correctly anymore :(15:36
rioti can manually mount it, but the mediaplayer ignores it etc.pp.15:36
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riotgnf. i HATE that.15:38
riotvanishing memory cards.. pff stupid.15:38
riotreboot doesn't help15:40
johnxtry running fsck on it or repair or whatever15:43
Stskeepsmorning johnx15:43
johnxhey Stskeeps15:43
johnxactually I'm off to bed15:43
Stskeepsnormal timezone now, eh ;)15:43
johnxyeahtrying to fix my schedule for work :)15:44
Stskeepsi'm just waiting for the stuff to compile anyway, and trying to make the beagleboard act nice15:44
johnxI'm going to track down why sapwood doesn't work right on the zaurus ... even if it kills ... someone else15:44
Stskeepsand do some roadmap work15:44
Stskeepsgtk took 9 1/2 hours to compile, so, atleast that hurdle is over :P15:45
riotum.. the fstab is FSCKED up15:45
johnxwith docs or without?15:45
johnxriot, the fstab isn't used15:45
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johnxit's not used on lots of distros15:46
WormFoodwhat is not used on a lot of distros? common sense? ;)15:46
Stskeepsjohnx: with. gtk debian package does not respect not building the arch-indep parts only15:46
Stskeepser, arch-dep15:46
johnxWormFood, things not in fstab are often automounted15:47
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WormFoodis there an input method for maemo, that would allow me to write chinese characters?15:47
riotthe card seems to be not recognized anymore :(15:47
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StskeepsWormFood: think i've seen one for japanese atleast15:48
riotmenelaus 1-0072: Shutting off 'VMMC' << is that the external sd?15:48
WormFoodI tried installing the chinese package and it fucked up my system!....I uninstalled it, and it didn't do a god damn thing....I'm rather pissed off, because now I can't enter text anymore15:48
johnxriot, you don't even seen the device in /dev ?15:48
riotjohnx: nope15:48
rioton my workstation, i do15:49
WormFoodit installed scim, which I'm familiar with, but it simply does not work....or at least, it breaks the on screen keyboard....can't even get it to come up now15:49
riotfilesystem is ok15:49
johnxriot, make sure it's in all the way15:49
WormFoodis this a known problem, or is that package for the N810 only? (and if it is only for the N810, why isn't it labeled as such?)15:49
riotaah, there it is again (!??!)15:50
riotmaybe the contacts.. hmm. i'm sure it was all the way in15:50
riotaah, wonderful, solved everything.15:50
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WormFoodanyone have a clue, as to why my (soft) keyboard quit working, on my N800, after installing the chinese support package? (and won't uninstall)16:37
qwerty12MaemoCJK uninstalls the Hildon Input Method and replaces it with the Matchbox  Keyboard16:37
WormFoodbut I can't get any keyboard to come up at all that normal?16:38
qwerty12Afaik, you have to run the keyboard manually from the statusbar icon16:38
WormFoodI see no keyboard on the statusbar...I see the scim icon, but I selected everything with that, and I still can't get the keyboard to come back16:39
WormFoodand when I uninstalled the same package I installed, it did just removed the package from the list16:39
WormFoodI really don't want to reinstall my entire system, but if I can't get it to work, then I'll have to do something16:40
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caio1982WormFood: can't you get to it from ssh and uninstall maemocjk and put HIM back?16:44
WormFoodit wasn't labeled as maemocjk16:45
WormFoodit was labeled as something long....with simplified-chinese in the name16:45
caio1982i was expecting a more boolean answer :)16:45
WormFoodI didn't try to ssh into it16:46
WormFoodoops...boolean eh16:46
WormFoodhow about "0"16:46
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lcukWormFood, is that ascii "0" or unicode?  either way  its still not boolean :P16:49
WormFoodit is too boolean16:49
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WormFoodstrictly speaking, boolean does not mean a single one or zero16:50
lcukbut its ambigious, if its taken as a character representation it will be "non zero" and will not be treated as false (==0)16:52
* lcuk is only yanking your chain though16:53
lcuk(tough afternoon of customer coding)16:53
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sjgadsbyIs still running Bugzilla 2.22?17:01
GeneralAntillesSomething around there.17:01
GeneralAntillesAlso: Hi, sjgadsby. :)17:01
sjgadsbyAh, thanks. I guess I'll hold off from investigating the use of XMLRPC in the bug jar script then.17:02
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baabahow do people deal with the differing libstdc++ versions when using the 2007q3 toolchain?17:33
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baabataking the new so and changing the symlink in /usr/lib on the device seems like a pretty scary thing to do, though things aren't crashing and burning yet17:35
baababut having to export LD_PRELOAD for everything that's compiled with the toolchain gets kind of annoying, especially when i'm doing stuff with gstreamer plugins :P17:36
pupnikmy experiments with differing libstdc (and ++) weren't successful yet.  i think jott had some success17:38
pupnikbtw, what version of gcc does that toolchain have, baaba17:38
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baabait appears the specific release coming with that has an incompatibility17:39
pupnikohhhh ... arrrgghh17:39
pupnik //wantgcc4.017:39
pupnik4.x rather17:39
pupnikwake me when it's standard for ITOS17:40
baabawant the whole system compiled with 4.3 ;)17:40
qwerty12pupnik, I have a target in scratchbox with gcc 4.3.2. Works for me sometimes :P. (aircrack-ng was packaged fine with it). Hi btw17:40
pupnikhey :)  nice qwerty12 ..17:40
baabaqwerty12, what do you do with the new .so?17:40
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baabaor do you use static linking17:40
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qwerty12baaba, I haven't actually compiled anything in it that seems to use libstdc++, or if I have, my tablet doesn't seem to notice any difference. No, I only static link when cc'ing for my router :)17:41
baabaheh okay17:41
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lrcgI have now debian booting on n800, no x, but i can ssh to it. I don't care about graphics yet, but i'd like to have dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/fb0 working. It doesn't give errors, the device gets full, but the "booting from mmc..." text stays on screen. What should i look at to get it working?17:48
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Stskeepswhat did you base on, debootstrap yourself, or deblet? :P17:50
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lrcgdebootstrap, it was this frisky thing from mojo actually17:50
Stskeepsthat's not debian ;)17:50
lrcgubuntu yeah17:50
Stskeepslook at how deblet does it, it has working boot scripts. Or look into what we're doing with Mer17:50
Stskeepswhich is a research OS alike Maemo based on ubuntu armel17:51
Meiz_n810or add mer repo and install deblet-rescue-menu :P17:51
lrcgok thanks17:51
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Stskeepslrcg: you should hang in here, then you have some chance to get something reasonable going17:52
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Stskeepsand consider looking at and
Stskeeps(we always need hands and compared to running your own ubuntu deriative :P)17:54
Stskeeps+it's better17:55
Stskeepsif you want the reason why it doesn't show anything: framebuffer driver isn't loaded and fb updating set to auto17:55
Stskeepsframebuffer console, that is17:56
ron1nwow how many nokia tablet OS's are their, I didn;t even know there was an ubuntu variant in development17:56
Stskeepsron1n: this isn't a nokia thing though, it's a community thing17:56
ron1nwell, I mean community OS's for nokia tablets17:56
Stskeeps(it was the m-r thing before)17:56
ron1nI see17:57
Stskeepslcuk: and and too :P17:57
Stskeepser, lrcg:17:57
GeneralAntillesMaemo, Deblet, Mer, Poky17:57
Stskeepsangstrom too i guess17:58
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ron1nall debian/ubuntu based?17:59
Stskeepsron1n: nah17:59
Meiz_n810some people boot into android17:59
ron1nsweet I'll check these out then17:59
Stskeepsron1n: nah, some of them are non-debian17:59
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RST38hActually, in English it is going to be Mammon:
ron1nMeiz_n810, yeah but its not very functional from what I read17:59
RST38hFalse god of riches and avarice18:00
ron1nI love the tablets, but hate debian18:01
ron1ncommunity distros are awesome =]18:01
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Meiz_n810why hate debian ?18:01
Meiz_n810it is about armv4 binaries are slow on tablet?18:02
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RST38hshould be about the same speed18:04
RST38hI think hating Debian is about differentiation though =)18:04
Stskeepsphilosophical question, is Maemo device lock pointless?18:05
Stskeepsas in the one with PIN18:05
Stskeepsi mean, it can be subverted with reflashing initfs18:05
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RST38hHow many crooks will reflash initfs?18:07
qwerty12Stskeeps, yes. as I proved, anyone with a linux computer or Mac can get the pin18:08
StskeepsRST38h: so it truth it could just be a gconf value?18:08
RST38hOn the other hand, a remote-disable thingie would probably be useful18:08
GeneralAntillesIt's not about being unbreakable18:08
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* Stskeeps is thinking how to get rid of DSME/MCE/etc's hell of hardware interfacing18:09
GeneralAntillesIt's about being difficult enough that it would deter most criminals.18:09
Stskeepsi want to move most of it to HAL so18:09
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GeneralAntillesqwerty12, you'll notice that safes aren't advertised as "unbreakable", only in how many minutes it would take a professional safe cracker to open them.18:10
Stskeepsto make the stuff more portable18:10
Stskeepsie, call a HAL method to set brightness, not talk to DSME18:10
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ShadowJK_I thought it was for keeping family members out18:10
X-FadeStskeeps: That is the idea about Ohm in Fremantle, I guess?18:11
GeneralAntillesShadowJK_, criminals, family members, it's all the same for some people. :P18:11
GeneralAntillesBasically it's for preventing unauthorized casual access.18:11
ShadowJK_mind, I'm using the keylock for that ;-)18:11
ShadowJK_it confuses sufficiently18:11
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, Perhaps, but doing a wget ; flasher-3.0 -f -n initfs.jffs2 does not take long at all. Of course, it's quick because I provide the initfs image already. No denying that if I didn't, it would take a lot longer because you'd have to make the image first.18:12
RST38hThe Great One explains to Nokia engineer the necessity of A2DP support in N900:
GeneralAntillesRST38h, A2DP support is already official for Fremantle. . . .18:13
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, it still requires physical access18:13
RST38hGeneral: Good, one less engineer eaten. For now.18:13
GeneralAntillesRST38h, that'd be a management issue, anyway, not an engineer's issue.18:14
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, Of course. I assume anyone with a tablet that wants a pin has the tablet in their hands.18:14
StskeepsX-Fade: yet they want to keep mce/dsme.. and im waiting for OHM to coem out18:14
Stskeepsso i want to see what direction they're going18:14
X-FadeI guess the sdk will tell more ;)18:14
Stskeepsand if they don't do it in sane way, there should definately be a push18:15
Stskeepsas it would benefit developers and themselves18:15
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, sure, but if a friend at school steals it off your desk, then they wont be able to use it.18:15
GeneralAntillesIt serves its purpose, preventing casual access18:15
GeneralAntillesand for that, it's hardly "useless"18:15
qwerty12Good point, I have yet to see a person in my school carrying a Linux laptop with flasher-3.0 on it :)18:16
RST38hqwerty: they will never show you!18:16
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pupnik<3 thinkpad T42P18:22
GeneralAntillesI don't know how people use laptops.18:22
MyrttiI know but not going to tell you "HIHIHI"18:23
GeneralAntillesThey pretty much seem designed to infuriate me with their suspect mobility and poor usability.18:23
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, Especially males: :P18:24
RST38hGeneral: Solution: don't save money next time you choose a laptop18:24
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GeneralAntillesRST38h, or my better solution: don't buy laptops at all.18:25
* GeneralAntilles is, and always has been, laptop free.18:25
RST38hGeneral: Well, that one has several shortcomings - planes, trains, log cabins, you know...18:25
RST38han ocassional spaceship too18:26
MyrttiI once had a "flash your 770 here" desk in a pub18:26
GeneralAntillesThat's what I have a tablet for.18:26
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Myrttiwe were having Ubuntu release party and went after the informal programming to a pub18:26
GeneralAntillesRST38h, and trust me, the laptops I've used aren't budget models.18:26
MyrttiI happened to have the flasher on my laptop18:26
RST38hGeneral: try doing serious coding work with a tablet18:26
MyrttiRST38h: not fair, I've done that18:26
GeneralAntillesRST38h, thankfully I don't do much of that while mobile.18:26
RST38hMyrtti: How many lines of code? What language? Did you debug on the tablet as well?18:27
inzI hang around our school quite often, with a laptop, flasher-3.0 and suitable usb cables for 770/N800 and N81018:27
Myrttiabout 500, bash or php, no.18:27
GeneralAntillesinz, and how's that working out for you?18:28
* Myrtti chuckles at inz and pinches his cheek18:29
inzGeneral, well, I have flashed my devices a couple of times. ;)18:29
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RST38hMyrtti: Ok. How about C/C++? 20k+ lines? And "yes" to debugging?18:30
MyrttiRST38h: oh, you mean Programming. I don't do Programming.18:30
RST38hCan your tablet and your finger on that virtual keyboard handle that?18:30
MyrttiI do LaTeX, dear.18:30
* RST38h does programming, for better or for worse, so he needs a laptop for those cases18:30
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Myrttiand IRC18:30
RST38hirc is already kind of a stretch on the tablet18:31
Myrttinot really18:31
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Myrttiirssi goodness wins.18:31
GeneralAntillesEh, I manage it alright.18:31
zakkmHow is the battery life on Deblet compared to normal maemo?18:31
GeneralAntilleszakkm, lots worse.18:31
zakkmi want to use fvwm-crystal18:31
GeneralAntillesI guess IRC on the tablet could suck if you weren't very good with the finger keyboard.18:32
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L0cutusre, what is the n800 file system name ?18:32
zakkmGeneralAntilles: How bad we talking?18:32
zakkmI'm able to recharge it quite often18:33
GeneralAntilles12 hours idle?18:33
L0cutusi mean the one on ssd18:33
zakkmwow thats bad18:33
zakkmwhy does it suck?18:33
GeneralAntillesL0cutus, NAND, and JFFS218:33
L0cutusthanks GeneralAntilles18:33
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GeneralAntilleszakkm, because Nokia did a fucking awesome job of making Maemo battery-friendly. ;)18:33
zakkmthey should opensource that secret18:33
GeneralAntillesIt is.18:34
l7are there any commandline switches for osso-xterm?  i'd like to get rid of the vertical scrollbar which is kinda useless in irssi18:34
GeneralAntillesl7, everything you need should be in gconf.18:34
GeneralAntillesGet it to spit out its keys.18:34
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zakkmi saw a screenshot of fvwm-crystal on the nokia ( used it on my old desktop for awhile ) and it seems like it would be nice on the nokia18:35
qwerty12l7, gconftool --set --type=bool /apps/osso/xterm/scrollbar 018:35
GeneralAntillesOr that18:35
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GeneralAntillesI don't get how anybody can use a desktop wm on a tablet.18:36
zakkmhah maemo is really nice18:36
zakkmjust think fvwm-crystal would work well18:36
zakkmgnome / kde seems weird though18:36
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l7qwerty12: that didn't seem to change anything18:37
qwerty12l7, works for me when I used it last time18:37
l7i wonder if it's related to using penguinbait's SD install18:38
guardianhi, for testing purposes, I would like to code an app that once launched, captures the mouse and draws fullscreen overlays of what's being scribbled (think fullscreen overlay basic app) -- where should I start ? I'm not really sure how to draw on top of everything else on the screen18:38
qwerty12And worked again when I just used it now.18:38
guardianmaybe a top level transparent window, but i'm not sure this would work :/18:38
lcukX-Fade, were you dealing with from the start?18:39
* lcuk has just been perusing the :D18:39
l7qwerty12: hmm, do i need to create a directory or file named ~/.gconf first?18:39
GeneralAntilleslcuk, find the old application catalog wiki page.18:39
GeneralAntillesThat thing was awesome.18:40
X-Fadelcuk: I've been community member from the start. Kinda ;)18:40
lcukheh, we need to dig up more of these gems18:40
GeneralAntillesAfter so long with teary, jittering, crappy Nokia tablets, graphics demos like this just make me gooey inside. . . .
qwerty12guardian, gromit ( compiled when I tried it last time, worked very slowly though18:40
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SHADOW__Xhello everyon18:41
zakkmGeneralAntilles: just watched it18:41
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zakkmthats really amazing18:41
zakkmhow much is that18:42
GeneralAntillesThe N900 is gonna be so tasty. . . .18:42
GeneralAntilleszakkm, it's not released18:42
GeneralAntillesand ARM only sells IP.18:42
GeneralAntillesSo first somebody like TI is going to have to license it.18:42
SHADOW__Xwhen i install ablockplus,userswitch,flashblock on the microb browser and i try to open it it hangs with an updating screen18:42
lcukthats slick, but the screen isnt responsive, and having it on a stand like that means its moves with pressure and doesnt react to him18:43
GeneralAntilleslcuk, it's demoing an ARM GPU.18:43
zakkmi want those apps on the nokia :)18:43
GeneralAntillesNo a hardware package. :rolleyes:18:43
zakkmfuture canola :)18:43
lcukyes gen, i know18:43
zakkmfuture canola, possible? :P18:44
GeneralAntilleslcuk, then why did you bring it up? <_<18:44
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lcukfor a prerecorded demo though having to reswipe a few times because it didnt react to touch isnt best (i know i had same shame..)18:44
GeneralAntillesHrm, there's no good demos for OMAP3.18:45
SHADOW__Xalso even if i reboot the device and restart the browser twice i sitll cant go into the chrome settings for the installed add ons18:46
GeneralAntilleszakkm, anyway, that's the sort of capabilities we can expect from the N900.18:46
lcukthats cos theres no good arm3 3d drivers out yet ;)18:46
X-Fadelcuk: Yeah, the touch screen doesn't seem to be that good on the demo.18:46
zakkmn900 .. couldnt afford that18:46
GeneralAntilleslcuk, well, there really easy to get ahold of actually.18:46
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zakkmi only got the n800 cause i got it for $14518:46
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: lcuk, well, they're really easy to get ahold of actually.18:46
GeneralAntillesEspecially if you're a company that would actually be making demos.18:47
guardianqwerty12: it's indeed very slow, even on a desktop box :(18:47
lcukreally, can i run a beagle in full hardware 3d now then?18:47
guardianqwerty12: but thx for the pointer18:47
qwerty12heh :)18:47
lcukcrap bbiab18:47
GeneralAntilleslcuk, sure, if you talked to jkridner about a 3d liqbase and signed an NDA.18:47
SHADOW__Xanyone here have my issue?18:49
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l7qwerty12: ah now it works! thanks for that tip18:54
l7i wonder why it took several tries18:55
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lcukGeneralAntilles, liqbase on omap3 will still blow away anything else purely due to less video bandwidth, if i decided to stick with the YUV updates i could get seamless kinetics with extremely good battery life and performance :)19:00
lcukbut chances are ill be moving back to rgb (it would also allow for the expansion onto windows desktop for another thing later on)19:01
woodong50when n900 is out19:01
jagernotinteresting thing is will staying full screen suck power more than say gtk?19:01
jagernotwhy i ask is a laptop with an nvidia 3d card is going to drain battery faster than one that has a generic video card19:02
lcukdepends whats happening, but the overlay doesnt have to be fullscreen, theres a windowed mode which i just dont use at present19:02
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lcukyes of course jager, but that laptop will drain power whatever the case19:03
jagernotdoes using Xv drain battery fast than staying windowed mode?19:03
lcuknow if it was an  arm laptop ;)19:03
lcukwits not windowed vs xv, its what you are doing in those mode that counts19:03
jagernoti suppose its how many times u blit to the screen19:03
lcukand fullscreen updates in both will drain the battery, but fullscreen yuv is less19:04
jagernotwhat is the max color u can set in yuv mode?19:04
woodong50waiting n900, when is out?19:04
jagernotmax red = ?19:04
lcuk24bit full color19:04
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SHADOW__Xanyone use microb addons?19:04
jagernotwoodong: we are all waiting..while u r waiting why dont u program something for n810?19:04
lcukits not red or green or blue though19:04
SHADOW__Xadblock plus flash block?19:05
jagernot8 bit red then19:05
jagernotassuming no alpha19:05
lcuknot even that19:05
lardmanhow large an effect is blit number of battery life?19:05
lcuk8 bit brightness (greys) + the chroma channels19:05
lcuki dunno lardman, but purely due to less bandwidth/memory moved around theres less to do hence less19:06
jagernoti think when u r doing a game19:06
lardmanI doubt it's a large saving19:06
jagernotu clear screen, blit19:06
jagernotthat is very costly power wise19:06
lcukyou do that whatever mode you are in19:06
jagernotcos u paint the screen only when necessary in  a gui program19:06
lardmannot activating 3D hardware might be, but purely bliting less data I doubt it19:06
lcukyeah lardman, agreed, but its still less :P19:06
jagernotno lcuk..not in every program19:07
jagernotmost gui programs wont paint until required19:07
jagernotand that too paint only the invalidated rectangle19:07
lardmanjagernot: the inefficiency there is in process time rather than power though (though related)19:07
jagernotcan you explain lardman?19:08
jagernot2 many jargons / inch ;)19:08
lardmantrying to tease out whether blitting consumes significant power19:08
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jagernotyep we are discussing that19:09
lcuklardman, yeah of course it does - whichever method you use19:09
lcukanyway, i was meant to be gone for a bit :P19:09
jagernotlcuk: whichever method means?19:09
l7has anyone gotten copy-paste to work in osso-xterm?19:10
jagernotblitting a fixed number of times per second will take more power than draw only when required and only the surface that needs repainting19:10
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l7roxterm's copy-paste makes life much better19:11
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lardmanjagernot: yes, more processor useage; the but if you have to blit a fixed number of times a second, does it save power to blit less data....?19:11
lcukjagernot, compare the same game rendered at 25fps using xv or SDL.  both require fullscreen blits, the same pixel size and quantity, but xv needs less memory bandwidth19:12
jagernotSDL would use Xv under the hood i thought19:13
lardmananyway, I doubt it saves much power blitting less data19:13
lardmanbut that's just my opinion of course19:13
lardmanbased on nothing at all19:13
jagernotdata has to be moved19:14
jagernotless the data moved better it is always19:14
lardmannote the "much" in my statement19:14
jagernotso yeah blitting less data requires less resources19:14
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jagernotless power19:14
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jagernotif its all wrapped up in 1 instruction which will only blit the whole display19:15
Proteousl7: copy paste works in osso-xterm if you use the menu19:15
woodong50is it possible to play online game on n81019:15
l7Proteous: yeah, using the menu is very slow19:15
l7roxterm can copy with ctrl-shift-c19:16
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Proteoushow do you press 3 buttons at the same time?19:16
lardmanuse you nose?19:16
jagernotlcuk: if both SDL and Xv require to do the same job at 25 fps - full scr, same pixel format, how can Xv require less memory bandwidth? they both have to send the same amount of data down19:16
* lardman can't type again, time to go home I think19:16
woodong50if it exist online game, i wanna know the name of game19:17
lardmanjagernot: Xv can use yuv at lower bits/pixel than SDL19:17
jagernotlardman: then that is not the same pixel format19:18
lardmanjagernot: ah, missed that bit19:18
lardmanjagernot: he probably meant the same pixels, rather than how they are represented19:18
lardmanwoodong50: and I want a 911 for Christmas19:19
lardmanwell not really, but you get the idea19:19
Proteousmy pixels are represented by a high paid lawyer19:19
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pupnikyes, is possible woodong50.19:19
jagernotlardman: hmm not sure.. u can send X * Y pixels of 1 bit resoution will take 24 times less the bandwidth of 24-bit color pixel that SDL sends..faster yes..but the image will have only 2 colors19:20
pupnikthough i wouldn't want to advertise any particular game at this time19:20
lardmanjagernot: indeed19:20
jagernotwell we dont have lcuk now to clarify for us :D19:20
jagernotlardman: tell me about ur dsp work19:21
woodong50pupnik : ok19:21
jagernoti would like to make use of the dsp in my code19:21
lardmanjagernot: but yuv at 12bpp is less than yuv at 16bpp which is less than rgb at 24bpp and all probably look much the same19:21
lardmanjagernot: what do you want to do with it?19:21
l7Proteous: with a bt keyboard19:21
* lardman remembers to finish HowTo19:21
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jagernotlardman: im working on an audio synth (
jagernotlardman: you tried that? :)19:22
lardmanno I've not19:23
jagernot12bpp = 8 reds, 8 green, 8 blue; 16 bpp - 32 reds, 32 green, 32 blue; 24 bpp: 256 red, 256 green and 256 blue19:23
lardmanwhat would you want to use the dsp for then? Is it worth the hassle?19:23
lardmanjagernot: yuv is not rgb of course19:24
jagernothow to get started19:24
jagernotlardman: oops19:24
lardmanjagernot: re dsp, what do you want to do with it though?19:25
jagernotlardman: actually i dont know..thought if i knew how to program it, i could use it somehow in my synth..19:25
lardmanjagernot: well decide what you need to do on it first, you have effectively a computerised piano? I can't see how the DSP will help you there19:26
jagernotim thinking of designing filters19:26
jagernotfx processors19:27
lardmanah ok, well in that case it might be of use19:27
jagernotbased on bezier waveforms ive developed in this project (
Meiz_n810jagernot: THIS IS AWESOME! =P19:27
lardmanjagernot: would you send it frames of data then and expect processed frames back?19:27
Meiz_n810I don't remember when i have had so much fun with my tablet than now with your boxar :)19:28
jagernotthank you Meiz19:28
jagernotdid you download the latest release or r u speaking from fond memory ;)19:28
jagernotlardman: yes19:29
lardmanjagernot: am heading home now, let me know how you'd structure your filtering and I'll show you some code19:29
lardmanwill be back online in a while19:29
lardmancu all later19:29
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jagernotbye lardman...just show me the code lardman..:)19:29
Meiz_n810jagernot: just downloaded the one from garage19:30
jagernotive added pulse width modulation19:30
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: that clip is kinda scary when he says it's at 300mhz19:30
jagernotto give a twang19:30
jagernotto the sound19:30
lardman|gonejagernot: look at the maemo-dev archives19:32
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, is that the GPU or the ARM?19:34
lardman|gonejagernot: some of that may be out of date/unpolished19:34
lardman|gonejagernot: really am going now :)19:34
jagernotthx lardman. c u soon.19:35
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: that's a good question19:35
SHADOW__Xmy browser keeps hanging on updating and then crashing running it from xterm doesnt display any messages any suggestions19:37
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, 300MHz for the GPU sounds about right.19:39
GeneralAntilles300MHz for the ARM isn't all that exciting.19:39
GeneralAntillesI mean, the Tegra gets away with a shitty ARM11.19:39
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SHADOW__Xcan someone help me with my n810 problem?19:41
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: what would you like to see a community OS contain btw? i listed -some- but that's just stuff i would be interested in19:57
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, most of my interests are on the osv-c page.20:04
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Stskeepswhat url was it again?20:05
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, basically, all of those cool community hacks and replacements.20:07
Stskeepsit is the idea that skype should be installable though, right?20:08
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GeneralAntillesWell, if feasible.20:08
Stskeepslike, ability to install skype in HAM, fork20:08
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GeneralAntillesGet qwerty12 to troll bugzilla for WONTFIXed Diablo bugs with patches.20:10
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hahlobitStskeeps: why deblet doesn't have own kernel? ain't debians usually have own patches and such?20:11
Stskeepsreason number one.. cx3110x back in the days, two, if it aint broke why fix? :P20:11
Stskeepsnoone stops you from making your own kernel though20:12
Stskeepsalso, replacing the kernel in flash is a bit drastic step for deblet installation20:12
hahlobitomap sources are available?20:12
GeneralAntilleslinux-omap, yes.20:13
Stskeepsyeah, of course the kernel source is avail20:13
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GeneralAntillesNewer versions don't totally support the N8x0, though.20:13
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hahlobitok might look in to it just for fun20:14
GeneralAntillesThe stc45xx mailing list might be a good place to start.20:14
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GeneralAntillesOr harass AStorm.20:14
hahlobitok thanks20:15
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: another fun development, mesh patch for stlc45xx20:15
Stskeeps.. since you asked about community news20:15
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Stskeepsor atleast some work being done20:18
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hahlobitStskeeps: does deblet has diffrent mac than maemo?20:21
Meiz_n810wlan mac?20:21
Meiz_n810i don't think so...20:21
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hahlobityes wlan20:22
Stskeepshahlobit: .. no, it uses same wlan-cal method as maemo20:22
Stskeepsatleast it should20:22
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hahlobitok some reason router sees it diffrent device20:23
Stskeepsit is entirely possible i guess20:23
qwerty12hahlobit, hostname is not the same as the mac address.20:24
qwerty12If that is what you are basing your results on20:24
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hahlobitno maemo always got one ip no hostname deblet got entirely diffrent ip20:25
Stskeepshahlobit: do you use deblet bootmenu?20:25
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, yeah, I saw it.20:26
hahlobityes i think so20:26
GeneralAntillesWait until the driver's a little more mature to talk about it.20:26
Stskeepsyeah, true20:26
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* lcuk will have to stop leaving vnc running in daytime20:28
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pupnikdo we have webcam with motion sensor software for ITOS?20:39
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lcuknot sure pupnik, but wouldnt the snow cause hell with it20:39
* pupnik wants an n800 doorbell20:40
lcukhow often would you replace it after the locals nick them?20:40
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pupnikwould have to build a mount for it20:41
qwerty12_N800with a taser for knobs selling at the doorstep20:42
l7how would you insulate it from heat and cold?20:42
lcukheh, i sense a few flaws with this :D20:43
lcukl7, its designed by nokia20:44
lcukcold is not an issue20:44
lcuki would expect..20:44
pupnikrarely gets to 0 deg celsius here20:45
qwerty12_N800My N800 is made in Finland, I'd be surprised if it was an issue :P20:45
l7how about condensation inside the unit?20:45
lcukwow!!! the new sensor for the n900 looks wicked
l7or precipitation?20:45
l7of course, maybe you live somewhere with nice weather20:46
lcukthat link i meant damn20:46
lcukpupnik, so what are you thinking, screen off until someone is detected20:47
lcukor leave an active display showing housenumber20:47
* lcuk stops worrying about inpracticalities20:48
lcukl7, assume its in a porch, what would the most kick ass nokia doorbell be20:48
lcukinternet connectivity whilst waiting for an answer?    games?20:49
l7yeah, i guess you can impress your guests20:49
lcukmaybe irc chan20:49
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l7yeah that would be neat if someone visited while you were away20:49
lcukkinetic scrolling "hilst you were out" sketches20:49
l7sorry, i'm afh, away from house :)20:49
lcukyou could even technically make it into a password entry screen20:50
l7neighborhood kids might be tempted to mess with it20:50
lcukdetects bluetooth of your personal phone and shows keypad20:50
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lcukheh, show maps with a big "You are here"20:50
l7i dunno if i'd want to implement password entry into my house20:51
lcukhouse news :D on the rss feed20:51
lcukdaily stats of arrivals and departures with pictures20:51
l7okay, now that's kinda creepy20:51
lcuktheres actually quite a lot of information you could glean by having a nokia doorbell, pupnik, you are the genius20:51
GeneralAntillesI'd like to see somebody sell a peep-hole webcam for less than $15020:52
l7you could have an rfid door entry system too20:52
lcukGeneralAntilles, available arent they20:53
l7peep-hole webcam is a neat idea20:53
GeneralAntilleslcuk, they are, but they're expensive.20:53
GeneralAntillesWiring them in kinda sucks ass.20:53
GeneralAntilleslcuk, power.20:54
GeneralAntilles qgil's at a perfect 2-0-0-020:54
qwerty12_N800hi woglinde20:55
lcukof course gan, but wireless data20:55
lcukits entirely plausable that you have power nearby20:55
GeneralAntillesAt your front door?20:55
GeneralAntillesYou could wire it into an overhead light or something I suppose20:56
GeneralAntillesbut then you'll need a transformer20:56
lcuknice! i have 29520:56
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lcukand still the fecking thumbs down i gave myself20:56
* lcuk hangs his head in shame every bloody time i see that damned icon20:57
lcuki should not be able to thuymb myself20:57
GeneralAntillesWell, the goodnews is that it doesn't yet count for karma. :P20:57
GeneralAntillesDid you ever file a bug about that?20:57
lcukno, you balanced it out by loving me :D20:57
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GeneralAntillesI'm really hungry, apparently.20:59
lcukwireless WITH BATTERY! and it lasts upto 6 months (depending on number of visitors probably21:00
woglindego eat some noodles21:00
GeneralAntilleslcuk, needs to connect to a computer.21:00
lcuknot the one i just linked21:00
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GeneralAntillesand why some hot chick with a borrowed baby would be posing at your front door is beyond me.21:00
GeneralAntilleslcuk, no, one of the prerequisites is: must connect to a computer.21:00
lcuksend another one of your minions out and find one then :P21:02
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GeneralAntillesI didn't send anybody, you just want to prove that the thing I want exists. :P21:02
Stskeepswb lrcg21:02
lcukGeneralAntilles, they dont exist21:03
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lcuki couldnt find one at all, its not possible to get a cheap wifi camera21:03
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lcukheh, my jaiku sig has changed21:06
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qwerty12_N800Ha, re the midgard toolbar, I can't even see it in 36-5's microb21:10
lcukqwerty, is my sig any better in jaiku?21:11
qwerty12_N800what sig? :)21:11
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lcukavatar thing21:13
sjgadsbyI like it, lcuk.21:14
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lcukheh, it looks even worse in friendview21:14
qwerty12_N800lcuk, ahh it looks good in jaiku21:14
lcukill try the zoomed in one ;)21:14
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lcukeugh! friendview pulverizes it21:15
lcukits got a really awful scaling algo21:15
lcukbut the map is so smooth to update and move around21:15
Stskeepsfriendview looks like an idea i had about a year ago21:17
* Stskeeps needs to know more investors..21:17
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: you just confirmed you're a teen :P21:19
Stskeeps(jaiku message)21:19
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, character limit :P21:19
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: character limit is to make it brief ;)21:20
* Stskeeps sips his coffee21:20
qwerty12_N800I'm long & boring with my sentences :P21:20
Stskeepsi have to fight with the character limit too but when microdocumenting it actually is a benefit21:21
lcuklol Stskeeps at least he hasnt found "that" thread yet21:21
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GeneralAntilles2 upd821:22
Stskeepsyes.. :P21:22
GeneralAntillesI'm betting "upd8" hasn't been used very much by txtrs. :P21:22
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Stskeepsit's the new kind of dating21:22
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mikkov_fiferboy: it looks like that after all libboost-serialization does not build for i386 target :(21:22
qwerty12_N800GeneralAntilles, :P21:22
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, bringing txt-spk to Linux.21:23
fiferboymikkov_: But it builds for arm?21:23
woglindemikkov_ which boost versiob?21:23
* lcuk uwell with filename limits existing before mobile phones i think its already been there21:23
lcuk- /me u21:23
* Stskeeps gets annoyed when he hits the 3 messsage limit on his sony-ericsson21:23
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, what model?21:24
lcukchrist, what kinda of stuff do you write? are you a girl in disguise?21:24
lcuknormally messages consit of "beers, red lion, 8pm"21:24
fiferboywoglinde: 1.34.121:24
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: k610i21:24
woglindetry newer one21:24
woglinde1.36 is out21:25
mikkov_maybe I will21:25
fiferboyIs there a debian package for it?21:25
Stskeepslcuk: i complicate things for no good reason, that kind of person :P21:25
lcukyes, normally you would have boobs and a handbag21:25
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, skeen, I only know my shit for db20[10/12] varients21:25
woglindeapt-cache show libboost1.36-dev21:26
woglindefrom unstable21:26
* Stskeeps thought boost wasn't ported yet21:26
Stskeeps(as in, ported to maemo)21:26
fiferboymikkov_: What did you change to get 1.34 to build?21:27
* lcuk wants to get working on c++21:27
* Stskeeps is waiting for armel builder to finish up21:27
Stskeepsso need someone to investigate using sb221:27
Stskeepsor atleast put up a distcc possibility21:28
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, sb2 can burn21:28
mikkov_fiferboy, actually I didn't change anything ;)21:28
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: sb2 isn't a bad idea but it's not stable enough yet21:28
Stskeepsor documented21:28
fiferboyI wonder why I had so much trouble building it then.21:28
fiferboyYou said something about the toolhain?21:28
woglindeStskeeps we have boost in oe21:28
mikkov_maybe I fixed one thing from rules21:28
woglindeneeded for wesnoth21:28
Stskeepswoglinde: oe != maemo21:28
mikkov_I try 1.3621:29
mikkov_clearly there is something with the toolchain if it builds for arm but not for i38621:30
mikkov_I tested locally with arm and thought that it worked21:30
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woglindeStskeeps but in oe we have for more arches21:32
woglindeincluding arm21:32
suihkulokkifedora, ubuntu, suse, debian, gentoo, foo and bar distros also successfully compile boost21:34
suihkulokkibut it is an quite a testcase to the stability of the compiler21:34
woglindesuihkulokki crosscompiling21:34
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fiferboyThe problem is if we want a package in extras that depends on boost, boost needs to be in extras21:43
fiferboyI have compiled wesnoth for maemo against debian arm boost, kde for maemo boost, and mikkov's boost successfully21:44
fiferboyBut I can't put wesnoth in extras unless boost is in extras, so having the autobuilder build a version is important21:44
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pupnikthanks fiferboy -21:47
pupnikkeep it up21:47
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fiferboyIt's not quite ready yet, but 1.4.5 is quite playable on my n81021:47
qwerty12_N800fiferboy, Us N800 users in luck? :)21:47
fiferboyRunning diablo, I would say so.  The only limitation will likely be the lack of keyboard.21:48
fiferboySDL input widgets will no use hildon-input-method21:48
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qwerty12_N800ftw rather21:48
fiferboyThis could be inconvenient for saving games (using a non default name) and network games21:49
fiferboyHaving only an n810 I haven't used xkbd, but I would think it will work fine in this situation21:49
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pupniki think xkbd is still hosed isn't it21:50
pupnikor did somebody fix it21:50
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fiferboyI should mention Glen Ditchfield did a lot of the leg work with his 1.2.8 patches, but I thought it was time for a new version21:51
qwerty12_N800pupnik, addison did a layout that doesn't send xkbd into oblivion after a few presses. kotczarny also fixed xvkbd quite nicely too21:52
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GAN800lulz Addison. . . .21:55
qwerty12_N800heh, I remember :(21:56
GAN800The guy that blew up and left when I told him to stop harassing me everytime he came in the channel.21:56
GAN800Reality check, please!21:56
fiferboyDoes anyone where (if anywhere) the svn for hildon-application-manager is?21:59
RST38hGAN <-- killed Addison21:59
qwerty12_N800fiferboy, garage but fremantle stuff is done in git now afaik21:59 isn't used anymore?22:00
qwerty12_N800not for h-a-m22:00
GeneralAntillesRST38h, hehe, apparently he couldn't take what he dished.22:00
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, mvo's tool-whoring.22:00
lcukh-a-m "we ain't bacon"22:01
fiferboyGeneralAntilles: Thanks.22:02
fiferboyI assumed h-a-m was a core application.  Is that not true?22:02
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GeneralAntillesfiferboy, what do you mean by "core"?22:02
fiferboyIntegrally tied to the maemo environment22:03
GeneralAntillesMore or less22:03
GeneralAntillesIts Hildon's package manager, soooo.22:03
Stskeepsor a package manager made for the maemo platform.. depending on perspective22:03
fiferboyThat's what I figured.  But it isn't in stage with the rest of hildon22:04
fiferboyJust seemed a bit strange to me looking for it.22:04
Stskeepsnot all of open source maemo is in stage though22:04
Stskeepsbut in for instance22:05
fiferboyMakes it a bit hard to find stuff22:05
fiferboyStskeeps: Yeah, I saw it in the "free" section, so assumed the source was somewhere22:05
GeneralAntillesThings may be synced up again after the SDK is out.22:06
GeneralAntillesWhich h-a-m will be included in.22:06
GeneralAntillesMildly interesting:
GeneralAntilles* Update the notification plugin for the new hildon status menu in hildon-desktop22:07
GeneralAntillesIn particular22:07
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Stskeepshmm :P22:07
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fiferboyOkay, next question: does anyone know why git has 143 commands!?22:08
GeneralAntillesBecause it's all cool and distributed?22:08
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: what's the goal of btw? a community that runs itself, supported by nokia, dealing with the maemo platform?22:09
qwerty12_N800CVS FTW22:09
* Stskeeps isn't sure really22:09
GeneralAntillesIt's the home of the Maemo Community run by the Maemo Community22:10
fiferboyqwerty12_N800: I think I remember some projects using CVS in the distant past :p22:10
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derfRCS pnwz your socks.22:10
GeneralAntillesEventually we'll get to the point will Nokia will hand us a budget and we'll dole out resources as we see fit.22:10
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: .. and the purpose of maemo community? ;)22:10
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Eventually we'll get to the point where Nokia will hand us a budget and we'll dole out resources as we see fit.22:10
Stskeepswell, i guess they are already with the people working for maemo.org22:11
GeneralAntillesBasically, anybody using, developing for or working on Maemo who doesn't fit the bill of either "plain user" ( or commercial developer (
* qwerty12_N800 is a bellend, no wonder I couldn't see midgard's toolbar with JS disabled22:12
GeneralAntillesThe home of non-endorsed anarchy for Maemo. ;)22:12
Stskeepsah :P22:12
GeneralAntillesI really like the direction h-a-m is heading wrt user-visible and user-invisble packages22:14
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GeneralAntillesI think most of the complaining about it comes not because it's a bad plan, but simply that the implementation isn't done.22:14
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* Stskeeps noticed the "one big OS package" thing22:18
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, oh, also, DEs should be easily swappable.22:19
GeneralAntillesCoordinate with penguinbait on that one. ;)22:19
Stskeepsdoes this mean i have to bash my head against my table every day? :P22:19
Stskeepsand yes, ofcourse DEs should be swappable22:20
Stskeepsthere'll be a framework for that i guess, like on traditional desktops22:20
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fiferboyGeneralAntilles: But hopefully in Fremantle, every application we need will be in extras, right? ;)22:23
GeneralAntillesSomebody should hack at this to prettify the details dialog: :P22:23
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GeneralAntillesfiferboy, that provides you with a way of differentiating between Extras and Extras-devel in the UI22:23
GeneralAntillesor between Extras and a Nokia repository.22:23
lcuki would prefer for extras-devel to be something slightly different22:23
qwerty12_N800GeneralAntilles, fremantle uses a totally different method to store catalogues :(22:24
fiferboyTrue, but I would hope the average user is installing most things out of extras22:24
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lcukto attempt to reduce the conflicts and problems of a total upgrade of repo to the unstable, wouldnt it be better to simply highlight a single app and say i want this app from -devel22:24
qwerty12_N800s/fremantle/h-a-m in fremantle22:24
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GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N800, how do you mean?22:24
GeneralAntillesI know he changed up the storage of the default catalogs so that OS upgrades don't nuke Extras.22:25
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Ro9u3oRwhere can i find the download for usb connectivity, any one know?22:25
GeneralAntilleslcuk, giant can o' worms warning.22:26
qwerty12_N800GeneralAntilles, The old system has been replaced, I think with some sort of xml type files,when i did a dirty backport of the fremantle branch, it wouldn't show any of my catalogues.22:26
lcukworse by opening for all22:26
GeneralAntillesAn opt-out option for upgrades would be a nice addition, though.22:27
GeneralAntillesApple's software update has it.22:27
qwerty12_N800Yeah, currently, it has to be done being root and the command line :(22:27
lcuk-devel is bad for lots of reasons - i am usually there because i want to test a specific app22:28
lcukbut theres lots of apps there22:28
Stskeepsgrr.. ok, wasn't there someone who had a screenshot of easy debian/ubuntu where the hildon apps like wifi applet etc showed notices and such?22:29
lcukbest to try to minimize use of the test one - and if installing from the later -devel version i should have to indicate which i want to be testing22:29
Stskeepsthat was an example of mixing DEs22:29
fiferboyI had someone rate one of my (stable) applications badly because they had extras-devel on and got a flacky experimental version22:29
lcukyes fifer, similar issue22:29
lcukbut you know yourself, some of your primary testers will be using that one22:29
lcukthey should have explicitely said "i want this from -devel"22:30
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fiferboyYes, this person shouldn't have had -devel enabled and had no way of knowing he upgrade to an unstable version.22:30
fiferboyI emailed him after and got him to disable the repo, but I shouldn't have had to do that.22:31
lcukbut he mustv been told by someone to test their app (for instance i couldv asked them to test liqbase from -devel)22:31
GeneralAntillesI wonder if color-coding would be useful.22:31
lcukwhat i suggest would prevent the issue because22:31
lcukit might do gan, but prevent instant upgrade if its from -devel, and if a version is available in -devel AND normal it offers the normal22:32
fiferboylcuk: I agree.  Turning one -devel to test one app can lead to a lot of apps being updated22:32
lcukwith a "use the -devel version of this specific app"22:32
GeneralAntilleslcuk, do you want to start the -developers thread or should I?22:32
lcukit does seem like a reasonable suggestion22:33
lcukill do it gan22:33
lcukill just see fi i can knock something up22:33
GeneralAntilleslcuk, just don't come out of the gate with a hard-and-fast plan, I'd like to see what other people might think up.22:33
lcukinfact, the wiki might be best22:33
GeneralAntillesStart the discussion, then move the results onto the improving application manager page.22:34
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N800, do regular distros have a method of handling anything like this?22:34
qwerty12_N800GeneralAntilles, No idea sorry, I don't really mess around with repos on the desktop22:35
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GeneralAntillesWho else wishes they could be doing this?
* lcuk wouldnt drop a bag either22:37
lcuk$100,000 toolbag22:37
* lcuk facepalms22:37
fiferboyLooks like nice weather up there22:38
lcukthat bag is luckier than me :( and its destined to burn up22:38
lcukany idea where they are over22:38
fiferboyNo, I was going to say I could see my house, but I can't.22:38
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GeneralAntillesI'd like to see things without an atmosphere getting in the way and making them all dull and fuzzy.22:39
lcukyou can do that with a lawmchair and some balloons22:39
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GeneralAntillesBy definition, no, actually. . . .22:40
mikkov_somethin like apt pinning is what we need for application manager
GeneralAntillesmikkov_, I'm thinking having a menu option along the lines of "hide selected update"22:41
GeneralAntillesSo you wouldn't see the update until the next one is pushed.22:41
qwerty12_N800A way of hiding the update applet without opening app-mgr would be nice too, but not critical I guess22:42
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N800, file a request?22:42
GeneralAntillesMaybe "Ignore updates"22:42
mikkov_I was thinking that updates from -devel are hidden, unless you look for them in some menu or other gui widget22:43
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qwerty12_N800GeneralAntilles, I have a feeling it will be a wontfix.  I'll probably have a go at adding the option to hide the applet myself :\22:43
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N800, well, you never know until you file and get a response in 8-16 months. :P22:44
GeneralAntillesWorst that can happen is you wasting 10 minutes of your time22:44
GeneralAntillesBesides, I'll vote for it.22:44
qwerty12_N800true, true :p. I'll file one tomorrow, just uploading screenshots from the tablet's browser has got me tired :P22:45
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guysoft422um, could i add the debian repositories to my maemo OS? or do they not like each other?22:47
Myrttiare you serious?22:47
qwerty12_N800You could but then you'd most likely end up with a tablet that needs reflashing22:48
RST38hguysoft: No, you couldn't22:48
guysoft422RST38h, is it possible to compile stuff from there?22:48
guysoft422qwerty12_N800, did you try?22:49
qwerty12_N800guysoft422, I'm not crazy enough to attempt to :)22:50
guysoft422qwerty12_N800, what about the scratchbox?22:50
qwerty12_N800Sure, I have one installed on my desktop but I'm not a coder so if something compiles from debian, I guess it compiles22:52
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GeneralAntilleslol, I'm getting tooltips for messages in my inbox on another virtual desktop while I'm composing an email in this one. <_<22:56
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Meiz_n810It looks like ubuntu-guys have started to compile lxde:s depends for jaunty...22:59
l7GeneralAntilles: are you running spaces on 10.5?22:59
GeneralAntillesl7, yeah.22:59
StskeepsMeiz_n810: woo22:59
l7weird, i thought that would a problem for a dead project like VirtueDesktops22:59
l7rather than apple's actively supported stuff23:00
guysoft422qwerty12_N800, i just thaght, if i could build a script that could compile a package from source,and compile all of its dependencies (thats recursive..) then we could compile tons of stuff..23:03
Stskeeps.. you'd think so, yeah23:03
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fiferboyWow, microb-engine from SVN made it so browserd won't start23:09
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, fremantle branch?23:10
qwerty12_N800fiferboy, happened to me too :(. i think it looks for the files in a different location23:10
fiferboyI don't think so.  Did they switch trunk to fremantle?23:10
fiferboySomething about libsqlite3 not finding the browserd file23:10
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RST38h...research to develop autonomous battlefield robots that would 'behave more ethically in the battlefield than humans...23:11
GeneralAntillesDoes "ethically" include "following orders"? :P23:12
GeneralAntillesOn average, I can't see how that'd be possible without a real AI.23:12
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fiferboyI guess I'll try to sort it out when I get home.23:18
fiferboyOr reflash.23:18
GeneralAntillesfiferboy, the old .deb should be available from the upgrade repo.23:19
fiferboyHopefully the dozen debs are available.  It upgrades libraries and a few components too.23:19
fiferboyBut thanks, that'll likely save me a reflash23:19
RST38hGeneral: This has nothing to do with ethics or AI23:19
RST38hGeneral: It has to do with DARPA grants.23:20
GeneralAntillesRST38h, ah, right, those.23:20
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derfDARPA funds crazy things. No one expects them to actually work.23:20
RST38hAlthough it is difficult not to appreciate how brazen some of those proposals are23:21
GeneralAntillesWell, you gotta push technology forward with government money somewhere. It might as well be with ethical battlebots. ;)23:21
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Khertan_n810Hi !23:21
Khertan_n810Is there specific things to know about gtkHPaned on Maemo ?23:21
RST38hderf: Either that or blowing up another poor towelheads with expensive military hardware23:21
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Khertan_n810it s look like my GtkHPaned isn t displayed23:22
RST38hs/poor/bunch of poor/23:22
infobotRST38h meant: derf: Either that or blowing up another bunch of poor towelheads with expensive military hardware23:22
derfI'd assume this would be a multi-phase program developed over a number of years and with only an experimental, not deployable, product at the end.23:23
derfWe'll be blowing up totally different people by then.23:23
fiferboyQuitin time!23:24
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Khertan_n810what are u talking about ?23:25
derfYour mom.23:25
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GeneralAntilles[4:11pm] <RST38h> ...research to develop autonomous battlefield robots that would 'behave more ethically in the battlefield than humans...23:25
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lcukhow many laws?23:26
GeneralAntillesI figure at least 100.23:26
GeneralAntillesMost of them exceptions to the first 4. ;)23:26
Khertan_n810i don t understand why it s difficult to reproduce soldian intellignecy23:27
lcuki just had a really great email from someone :D23:27
Khertan_n810fire before ...23:27
Khertan_n810try to talk after23:27
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RST38bisjust one i hope - KILLL-ALL-HUMANS23:28
Khertan_n810not difficult ... and require only one voice recorded23:28
Khertan_n810'are you dead' ?23:28
derfKhertan_n810: Soldiers have great things like eyes, an object recognition system, tracking algorithms...23:28
Khertan_n810and in case of any answer fire again23:28
Khertan_n810derf ... like your mom23:28
derfKhertan_n810: Exactly so.23:29
Khertan_n810and i dont think it ll be better :)23:29
Khertan_n810a motion detector sensor should be enought23:29
RST38bisit is cheaper to make soldiers too.23:29
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Khertan_n810fire before ...23:30
derfI mean, if I had that kind of massively parallel computer that fit in a 700 cubic cm package and used so little power, coupled with 18 years of training time, it _might_ be possible, but it'd still be hard.23:30
suihkulokkicommon lisp was created for AI research by DARPA23:30
Khertan_n810RST38bis : true23:30
suihkulokkihow scary is that :P23:30
l7not really that much scarier than the internet having it's origins in darpanet though23:31
RST38bisdarpa by itself is not scary23:32
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RST38bisbunch of fat bastards in dc planning another "democracy" crusade is23:33
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* Khertan_n810 is still fighting with this GtkHPaned23:36
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cyrus__installed fanoush initfs and am trying some of the suggestions
cyrus__however there is only 4 megs on /mnt/initfs and it is fully used23:39
cyrus__even if I flash and then install fanoush initfs again and it uses up the free space23:39
cyrus__is there anything I can delete here that i don't need23:39
Stskeeps"only 4 megs"?23:40
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: how big was it on chinook again?23:40
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cyrus__Stskeeps - well, shouldn't have said only...but is there a way to clear up some space so I can copy over additional modules?23:40
Stskeepscyrus__: there's an option in fanoush initfs to remove the testing stuff23:41
GeneralAntilles1.7MB or so is used by default.23:41
Stskeepswhich frees up space23:41
GeneralAntillesThis sounds like something else at play to me. . . .23:41
GeneralAntillesI mean, you're sure you mounted it ro, right?23:41
cyrus__Stskeeps - i did choose to disable the test stuff23:41
Khertan_n810HPaned isn t display on Maemo ?23:42
cyrus__GeneralAntilles - well I remounted rw so I could modify23:42
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: I mean, you're sure you mounted it rw, right?23:42
cyrus__yes I did23:43
cyrus__it is mounted rw23:43
Stskeepscyrus__: .. how big a module are you trying to fit?23:43
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cyrus__60 k total23:45
cyrus__I tried to delete the utelnetd file and it said no space left...why would it say that when trying to remove something23:45
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* Khertan_n810 ... try to setup a stupid hpaned ... 23:49
Khertan_n810pfff easier to do it in full python than using glade23:49
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