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| RST38h | l7: Who cares? :) | 00:00 |
|---|---|---|
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| l7 | RST38h: you like reading from the tablet? | 00:01 |
| l7 | i find reading too much text on an LCD gives me a headache | 00:02 |
| * Stskeeps likes reading and annotating on tablet | 00:02 | |
| Stskeeps | though i wouldnt mind a way to show it on a bigger screen occasionally | 00:02 |
| l7 | how do you annotate? | 00:02 |
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| l7 | FBreader doesn't have that feature from what i recall | 00:02 |
| aquatix | l7: i puked when seeing that fugly pink android beast | 00:02 |
| aquatix | 21:33:40 RST38h | http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2008/11/zzzandroid.jpg | 00:03 |
| l7 | lol | 00:03 |
| Stskeeps | l7: xournal | 00:03 |
| Stskeeps | annotate pdf | 00:03 |
| aquatix | but i then figured it was posten 1.5h ago ;) | 00:03 |
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| l7 | aquatix: man that is ugly | 00:04 |
| aquatix | l7: yup... | 00:04 |
| l7 | what are the knobs? | 00:04 |
| l7 | are the nipples? | 00:04 |
| aquatix | i hope so | 00:04 |
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| l7 | ew | 00:04 |
| * aquatix wouldn't know, just got the link from RST38h | 00:05 | |
| l7 | well there is that quote about the nipple being the only intuitive interface | 00:05 |
| l7 | still, it seems wrong on a phone | 00:06 |
| lcuk | its only wrong cos theres no milk | 00:06 |
| aquatix | :) | 00:06 |
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| aquatix | lcuk: well, i prefer them milkless generally | 00:07 |
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| Stskeeps | woo, http://merbuilder.jaiku.com/presence/49624326 \o/ | 00:08 |
| Stskeeps | (heart means it compiled for both source, i386 and armel) | 00:08 |
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| lcuk | ahhhh stage 2, to examine that API you must first know how to unlock the bra | 00:08 |
| RST38h | l7: Yea, tablet reading is fine with me | 00:09 |
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| RST38h | Although in a pinch I can even read off E70 | 00:09 |
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| lcuk | should i annotate my text or should i textify my sketches .. | 00:11 |
| lcuk | or should i turn my text into annotations | 00:11 |
| Juhaz | throw dice? | 00:12 |
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| lcuk | firstly i best undo the double buffering | 00:12 |
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| RST38h | Do the boring stuff first | 00:15 |
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| RST38h | Make it a real app, UI, icons, installer, etc | 00:15 |
| lcuk | yes, which is why ive been pondering colored glyph rendering | 00:15 |
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| lcuk | still have limitations | 00:16 |
| RST38h | lcuk: For UI, use white icons with black outlines - it is the standard way to show contrast icons | 00:16 |
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| lcuk | mmm the whole ui is black anyway | 00:17 |
| RST38h | Check out this screenshot: http://filearchive.cnews.ru/img/zoom/2008/08/29/vi2_17815.jpg | 00:17 |
| RST38h | Good example of how to do UI in applications where you do not control what is underneath | 00:17 |
| lcuk | its the text color thats limited, not images or sketches | 00:18 |
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| RST38h | lcuk: right - they are the background in this case =) | 00:19 |
| RST38h | lcuk: but UI icons will also be limited in color, just like text because you want them to stand out above background | 00:19 |
| lcuk | thats not important for now though, as i said icons can be anything i want them to be | 00:20 |
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| lcuk | the algo quite simply will not render anything other than white text on a background | 00:21 |
| lcuk | so if i have a white background i see nothing | 00:21 |
| lcuk | i have to alpha blend the text | 00:22 |
| lcuk | which will slow it down dramatically | 00:22 |
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| lcuk | i can sidestep the issue by actually rendering hand drawn sketches as glyphs, but i have been looking at alternatives using ttf still | 00:23 |
| RST38h | What do you need the text anyway? | 00:25 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: why isn't freetype usable btw? | 00:26 |
| lcuk | i dont, but if people want to read documents with a white background (as has been requested) then it has to work | 00:26 |
| Stskeeps | i mean, you can't be the first with a YUV backend :P | 00:26 |
| lcuk | freetype returns a greyscale bitmap, this still needs colorizing and blitting | 00:26 |
| RST38h | lcuk: But this does nt sound like must-have functionality | 00:27 |
| lcuk | and, yes i can | 00:27 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: ah | 00:27 |
| RST38h | Decent UI is a must have though | 00:27 |
| lcuk | RST38h, its been an annoyance for a while | 00:27 |
| lcuk | i agree, it all goes hand in hand | 00:27 |
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| lcuk | im right in the core again and whilst im here im trying to make sure ive catered for everything required | 00:28 |
| lcuk | the next step is the tile based widget sets and explicitely the ->textcolor property... | 00:28 |
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| lcuk | ok, supposing i left it as a stub | 00:29 |
| lcuk | ill leave a big todo and a few links about what ive discovered and the directions ive tried | 00:30 |
| lcuk | so it will be easier for myself (or someone else) to pickup later :) | 00:30 |
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| Stskeeps | .. you know you've been working in academic setting too long when it comes easily to you to come up with paper titles | 00:31 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 00:32 |
| lcuk | lol | 00:32 |
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| lcuk | emma, i smiled, was anything meant to happen? | 00:35 |
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| emma | lcuk: now you feel good about yourself :) | 00:41 |
| lcuk | :D excellent, i thought it was an inventive way to get emotes into flat text irc | 00:42 |
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| lardman | evening | 00:50 |
| lcuk | hiya | 00:50 |
| * lcuk kicks double buffering to the kirb | 00:50 | |
| lardman | hey gary, how's things? | 00:52 |
| lcuk | tough, im trying to fix a limitation, can only draw fonts in white on a dark background, wanting to allow any color | 00:53 |
| lardman | fonts, sounds like something to do with a gui to me... ;) | 00:54 |
| lcuk | is everything ok with you? | 00:54 |
| lcuk | heh | 00:54 |
| lardman | yeah not bad, pretty busy | 00:54 |
| lcuk | arent we all | 00:54 |
| lardman | so true, and pretty much all non-busy time is spent xmas shopping, uurgh | 00:55 |
| lcuk | i did find one way to solve my crisis by the way, but its kinda strange | 00:55 |
| lcuk | mmm xmas shopping, yes | 00:55 |
| lcuk | i tihnk tracy already got most tihngs | 00:55 |
| lcuk | hmmm | 00:57 |
| lcuk | think and things | 00:57 |
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| lcuk | lardman, http://liqbase.net/liq.20081124_225643.gary.scr.png barring actually correctly scaling them, a handwritten font is colorable, scalable and rotatable and relatively fast | 01:00 |
| lcuk | (the scaling is not done because im not sure if i want to continue | 01:01 |
| lardman | cool, looks very nice | 01:01 |
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| lcuk | for a ransom note | 01:01 |
| lardman | how do you decide which bits are which colours, do the gaps in the strokes separate the objects? | 01:01 |
| lardman | so it does recognition too then? | 01:02 |
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| lcuk | i make a grid | 01:02 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/liq.20081123_012734.gary.scr.rot.png | 01:02 |
| lcuk | then just draw the font, the colorization at the moment is just something none white | 01:02 |
| lcuk | its rotated wrong in that one, hang on | 01:03 |
| lardman | ah, so it's not handwritten, it's your own font | 01:03 |
| lardman | that's ok, I understand | 01:03 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/liq.20081124_225420.gary.scr.png | 01:03 |
| lardman | the GPL is not handwritten that is, you just rendered it using your custom hand-written font glyphs | 01:03 |
| lardman | cool :) | 01:04 |
| lcuk | yeah, when it comes to a point when it needs to render a glyph, if there is a sketch in the table it will use it | 01:04 |
| lcuk | just fannying around, but getting ideas for other things | 01:05 |
| lardman | next thing is to replace entire words with images/sketches | 01:05 |
| lardman | :) | 01:05 |
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| lardman | so if you write "bacon" you get a rasher rather than words :) | 01:06 |
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| lcuk | :) you mean after writing a word simply be able to physics it ;) | 01:06 |
| lcuk | hehehehe | 01:06 |
| lcuk | i was thinking more bacon becomes a gateway to rasherworld | 01:06 |
| lardman | yes, physicing words would be cool too | 01:06 |
| lcuk | click and open the whole bacon info | 01:06 |
| lcuk | hyperlinks :) | 01:06 |
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| lcuk | but hand drawn | 01:06 |
| lardman | click and it turns on your auto-grill, connected via wifi | 01:07 |
| lcuk | :D | 01:07 |
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| Stskeeps | eh | 01:11 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: am i supposed to be able to edit on wiki without https? | 01:11 |
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| Stskeeps | there you are | 02:03 |
| Stskeeps | i wondered if we sent you to a mental institution :P | 02:03 |
| johnx | nope. friends over the last couple days, and thanksgiving in this part of the world | 02:03 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 02:04 |
| johnx | my computer desk was covered in pots and pans and other people's stuff | 02:04 |
| Stskeeps | ok, so, jaunty armel targets armv5 and will provide vfp packages, armv7t, etc for the libraries that will need it, but using hwcap, so the baseline is armv5t | 02:04 |
| johnx | awesome! | 02:05 |
| Stskeeps | according to the peeps in there | 02:05 |
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| johnx | what is jaunty's coverage like? | 02:05 |
| Stskeeps | they are making huge leaps these days | 02:05 |
| Stskeeps | they have full ubuntu-desktop or close to it by now | 02:05 |
| Stskeeps | my idea for a motion is that we scrap mojo for now and base on top of jaunty-i386 and -armel, - it's going to be a while yet before we're at a more modern us like icy/intrepid | 02:06 |
| Stskeeps | us=os | 02:06 |
| Stskeeps | and jaunty gives us both 'armel' and a i386 version | 02:06 |
| johnx | leaving mojo on the back burner sounds fine for now | 02:07 |
| Stskeeps | i've been busy so now we have a good deal of i386 packages (beagleboard is crapping out my mmcs), and a qemu builder going at it atm | 02:07 |
| Stskeeps | https://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint#Roadmap | 02:07 |
| Stskeeps | is what i've worked a bit on tonight | 02:07 |
| johnx | are all your mmcs the same brand? | 02:07 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, kingston | 02:07 |
| johnx | They always say "correlation isn't causation" but in this case I'd start to question that | 02:08 |
| Stskeeps | yeah.. :P | 02:08 |
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| johnx | gah, alright time to get up to speed on bzr | 02:10 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, get it on asus eee top, advantage being cheap desktop touch | 02:10 |
| lcuk | it will flow | 02:10 |
| Stskeeps | k | 02:10 |
| Stskeeps | hehe, im not 100% positive i like bzr yet.. it has -weird- attitudes :P | 02:10 |
| Stskeeps | but is ok otherwise | 02:10 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: basically work process now is, bzr push to launchpad, ask builder to build it in a clean chroot, first source, then i386, then armel | 02:11 |
| Stskeeps | if it doesn't build in your personal i386 chroot, it definately won't on armel either | 02:11 |
| lcuk | gnite anyway | 02:11 |
| Stskeeps | gnite lcuk | 02:11 |
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| lcuk | looks good btw sts | 02:11 |
| johnx | 'night lcuk | 02:14 |
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| johnx | hey rm_you :) | 02:15 |
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| Stskeeps | (and my roadmap is not definate, it's a result of me not sleeping enough and being bored at 1am. :P) | 02:15 |
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| Stskeeps | right, i think i'm off to collapse in bed | 02:29 |
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| l7 | wow, i managed to break my application menu by installing something | 02:31 |
| l7 | good thing i still have personal menu i guess | 02:31 |
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| l7 | weird, it's just grayed out in Control Panel > Panels | 02:33 |
| l7 | i wonder if running out of space on my root partition caused it to get corrupted | 02:35 |
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| johnx | 'night Stskeeps | 02:37 |
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| l7 | i wonder if it's a geek lifestyle thing to stay up on the computer until some ungodly hour then roll into bed | 02:38 |
| l7 | i did that yesterday for some reason | 02:38 |
| johnx | i tend to do that most of the time | 02:43 |
| johnx | I hate not being able to get to sleep so I never crawl into bed until I'm falling asleep at my keyboard | 02:43 |
| l7 | yeah, i think sitting in front of the computer is a bit of a stimulant, at least for me | 02:44 |
| l7 | the light from the screen encourages wakefulness at the very least | 02:44 |
| l7 | not to mention the concentration on whatever you're doing | 02:45 |
| johnx | also the posture | 02:46 |
| l7 | posture? | 02:46 |
| johnx | I tend to fall asleep quicker reading in bed on my tablet | 02:46 |
| l7 | yeah, that's true | 02:46 |
| johnx | the sitting upright, leaning forward bit | 02:46 |
| johnx | but I think you're right about it being related to concentration and doing something more active than just reading or just watching TV | 02:47 |
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| l7 | there are lot of web pages and books that talk about how to get to sleep on a regular schedule | 02:51 |
| l7 | most of them recommend laying off the computer and TV a few hours before going to bed | 02:51 |
| l7 | too bad that's also the most convenient time to get on the computer for a lot of people | 02:52 |
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| johnx | and it always seems like just as you're about to leave someone shows up :) | 02:52 |
| l7 | heh | 02:53 |
| l7 | yeah, i remember lots of times where irc conversations kept me from getting to bed on time | 02:53 |
| Robot102 | http://xkcd.com/386/ | 02:54 |
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| lcuk | johnx, most likely because you are compressing the veins in your neck and lowering the blood supply to your brain :P | 02:56 |
| l7 | Robot102: heh, nice one | 02:56 |
| johnx | that's why people join IRC? because I compress my vains? :P | 02:56 |
| lcuk | no, thats why you sleep | 02:57 |
| l7 | lcuk: wait, you mean by lying down and reading on the tablet? | 02:57 |
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| jagernot | hi all, please to let you know that i have released boxar-1.0...a musical instrument for maemo... http://garage.maemo.org/projects/boxar screenshot & sound shot available | 02:58 |
| jagernot | will be pleased to hear your comments. | 02:58 |
| jagernot | its works on my n810 | 02:58 |
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| l7 | hey, roxterm has a cut and paste keyboard shortcut | 03:00 |
| l7 | now i can copy that url easily | 03:00 |
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| Chiku | hello | 03:10 |
| Chiku | someone already install deblet on a nokia? | 03:11 |
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| johnx | yes, I have :) | 03:11 |
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| Chiku | so? | 03:11 |
| johnx | what do you want to know about it? | 03:11 |
| Chiku | is based on lenny? etch? sid? | 03:12 |
| Chiku | xfce as wm? | 03:12 |
| johnx | sid or lenny | 03:12 |
| johnx | lxde as the wm | 03:12 |
| Chiku | lol possible with fluxbox? | 03:13 |
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| johnx | well lxde uses openbox, so yes | 03:13 |
| johnx | it's just a normal debian install for the most part | 03:13 |
| Chiku | which nokia did you installed? | 03:14 |
| johnx | n800 | 03:14 |
| Chiku | do you think you can play xvid higher resolution witouth lag? | 03:14 |
| l7 | hrm, interesting question | 03:15 |
| johnx | higher than with OS2008/Maemo? no definitely not | 03:15 |
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| johnx | that's a hardware limitation | 03:15 |
| Chiku | with mplayer | 03:15 |
| l7 | are the drivers on deblet not as good as on maemo? | 03:15 |
| l7 | i just noticed that mplayer will play revision3.com's shows in large xvid format which is pretty cool :) | 03:16 |
| l7 | it's a little choppy at times though | 03:16 |
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| l7 | Chiku: how big are the xvids that you're playing? | 03:17 |
| johnx | if you got the maemo version of mplayer installed in deblet it should play exactly the same | 03:17 |
| Chiku | 720x400 :) | 03:17 |
| l7 | fps? | 03:17 |
| Chiku | 24fps | 03:17 |
| Chiku | not asking about HD :p | 03:18 |
| johnx | 640x480 is kind of a stretch | 03:18 |
| johnx | 720x400 @ 15fps is probably doable | 03:18 |
| l7 | i wonder if there any kernel tweaks that might improve playback | 03:19 |
| johnx | nope...it's a hardware issue | 03:19 |
| l7 | so there's no amount of tweaking any area of the software that will help? | 03:20 |
| johnx | that's right | 03:20 |
| l7 | maybe just get an n900 then :) | 03:20 |
| johnx | it's a limitation on the bandwidth to the LCD controller | 03:20 |
| l7 | without that bottleneck, could the rest of the hardware handle 720p? | 03:21 |
| johnx | ahaha...no | 03:21 |
| l7 | at 24fps | 03:21 |
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| johnx | without that bottleneck the rest of the hardware might be able to handle 800x480 @ 24fps under really optimal conditions | 03:22 |
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| Chiku | I already try with 640x480, you think it's better with 720x400? | 03:23 |
| johnx | do the math and see :) | 03:23 |
| johnx | 640 x 480 x 24fps x 16bit = ??? | 03:23 |
| johnx | then do the same for 720x400 | 03:23 |
| johnx | whichever is smaller will play better | 03:24 |
| Chiku | yeah | 03:24 |
| l7 | seems like it depends on the dimensions of your video though | 03:24 |
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| l7 | has anyone else noticed their N800 charges really slowly? | 03:39 |
| johnx | lots of things can affect charging speed | 03:39 |
| johnx | especially: power draw on the n800 while it's charging | 03:39 |
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| johnx | well this is particularly weird: sapwood is perfectly happy on one ARMv5te device but not on another | 03:49 |
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| l7 | reeeeee | 03:56 |
| l7 | oops, that bluetooth repeat rate is still out of wack | 03:56 |
| l7 | johnx: how long does it take to recharge your N800 from the point where it gives a low battery warning? | 03:57 |
| l7 | assuming the tablet is more or less idle | 03:57 |
| johnx | I don't really remember | 03:57 |
| johnx | I just plug it in and use it that way when I'm at home | 03:57 |
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| l7 | hrm | 04:14 |
| l7 | i have to admit i like apple's quick charge feature on their devices | 04:15 |
| l7 | my new phone, not an iphone, also charges fairly quickly | 04:16 |
| l7 | my old one took forever | 04:16 |
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| Proteous | yeah, the increased chance of having a battery burn fiercly in my pocket just brings new adventure and excitement to my life | 04:48 |
| johnx | heh...everyone wants longer battery life but the more stored energy you have the bigger bang it makes when it sets itself on fire :) | 04:49 |
| Proteous | maybe | 04:49 |
| johnx | well the bigger the lithium-ion battery you have the more lithium is in it | 04:50 |
| johnx | ever see a little chunk of lithium burn? | 04:50 |
| Proteous | sure, if we are talking about just lithium ion batteries | 04:51 |
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| Proteous | but there are other energy storage mediums that don't explode like that :) | 04:51 |
| johnx | like fuel cells? :P | 04:52 |
| Proteous | heh, no | 04:52 |
| Proteous | I wouldn't use fuel cells as an example of a medium that wouldn't explode | 04:52 |
| johnx | nimh, nicd, sla and alkalines are better but they all have one thing in common: lower energy density | 04:53 |
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| l7 | some science recently came out on the possibility of making batteries that run on sugar | 04:57 |
| johnx | at a decent density? | 04:57 |
| johnx | potatoes work too :) | 04:57 |
| l7 | yeah, let me find the link | 04:57 |
| Proteous | I want supercapacitors | 04:58 |
| Proteous | or some sort of bio battery that runs on farts | 04:58 |
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| johnx | ultracapacitors scare me a little as well | 04:58 |
| Proteous | although then there is the problem of getting the farts into the battery | 04:58 |
| Proteous | just don't bridge the contacts and you'll be fine | 04:58 |
| l7 | http://www.ecogeek.org/content/view/509/ | 04:59 |
| l7 | they were talking about using this to power devices for the military | 04:59 |
| l7 | since when you're in the field, getting a bit of plant sap to charge up your gear would be useful for them | 05:00 |
| johnx | Proteous, or feed the capacitors too much voltage :) | 05:01 |
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| johnx | I'm gathering that those sugar based batteries don't produce much power | 05:03 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, you fail at wiki links. :P | 06:49 |
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| slonopotamus | anyone has 2.6.25 kernel for n800? | 07:10 |
| slonopotamus | naive question, i know | 07:11 |
| johnx | not really that naive | 07:12 |
| johnx | I think some people have been playing, but I'm not sure they've been sharing :) | 07:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, with the new wifi driver it's a lot more feasible | 07:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't think there are any usable binaries floating around, though. | 07:12 |
| slonopotamus | i'm asking because previous versions have kinda broken oabi-chroot-inside-eabi-system | 07:14 |
| slonopotamus | http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=462677 | 07:15 |
| * rm_you waves at johnx | 07:23 | |
| johnx | 'lo again rm_you | 07:23 |
| johnx | I didn't expect to see you for a month | 07:23 |
| rm_you | yeah | 07:23 |
| rm_you | we're over here | 07:23 |
| rm_you | so i have online times :P | 07:24 |
| johnx | "we're over here" means absolutely nothing to me | 07:24 |
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| solmumaha | morning | 07:25 |
| johnx | morning solmumaha | 07:26 |
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| zaltair_ | or evening .. ?? you are from europe right? | 07:41 |
| johnx | ~ugt | 07:41 |
| infobot | extra, extra, read all about it, ugt is Universal Greeting Time. Created in #mipslinux, it is a rule that states that whenever somebody enters an IRC channel it is always morning, and it is always late when the person leaves. The local time of any other people in the channel, including the greeter, is irrelevant. http://www.total-knowledge.com/~ilya/mips/ugt.html | 07:41 |
| johnx | :D | 07:41 |
| zaltair_ | ouch ... !! | 07:42 |
| johnx | it's just a funny IRC thing | 07:42 |
| johnx | no ouch needed :) | 07:42 |
| zaltair_ | i din'd know that | 07:42 |
| johnx | it's not really a "rule" just something funny | 07:43 |
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| zaltair_ | DaCe|ge: morning !! | 07:43 |
| zaltair_ | :D | 07:44 |
| DaCe|ge | morning | 07:44 |
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| slonopotamus | :D | 07:46 |
| slonopotamus | funny ;) | 07:46 |
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| johnx | anyone else here with a pxa270? | 07:59 |
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| Proteous | I had that once, my doctor game my some antibiotics and it cured it | 08:08 |
| * johnx bangs his head against his desk | 08:09 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | johnx, having fun withsomething? :P | 08:09 |
| johnx | sapwood on the zaurus | 08:09 |
| johnx | remember when I was trying to figure this out like 6 months ago? | 08:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes | 08:09 |
| johnx | yeah | 08:09 |
| johnx | I do too | 08:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ehehe | 08:10 |
| Proteous | lol | 08:10 |
| johnx | it's no the x server, and it works on other ARMv5 machines | 08:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, you should file a bug. | 08:10 |
| johnx | and it's not sapwood | 08:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | "DIE, SAPWOOD! DIE!" | 08:10 |
| johnx | sapwood seems to be triggering a bug in something else | 08:11 |
| johnx | I think it has to be in libX11 or libXext or something on a similar level | 08:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | havefunwiththat | 08:11 |
| johnx | either that or some really spooky honest-to-god hardware bug in my CPU | 08:12 |
| johnx | hence a call for other PXA270 owners | 08:12 |
| johnx | seriously, anyone? I'll buy you a beer and I'll ship it (!) | 08:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | The beer is a lie! | 08:13 |
| johnx | the beer is delicious | 08:13 |
| johnx | and if no one steps up I'll just drink it myself | 08:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 08:13 |
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| johnx | ha! has to be in libX11 or libXext | 08:16 |
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| johnx | soooo far off the weirdness scale | 08:28 |
| solmumaha | do the sharp and give up before it's too late | 08:28 |
| johnx | I'm close this time. I can taste it | 08:32 |
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| johnx | ok, well that's a *different* problem | 08:34 |
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| Meiz_n810 | midori is no more installable on jaunty??? | 09:17 |
| Meiz_n810 | it was... | 09:17 |
| Meiz_n810 | midori is in deblet repo? | 09:18 |
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| hahlobit | Stskeeps: can i have local matchbox-keyboard somehow in deblet? | 09:36 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Anybody else like the idea of a short, bi-monthly, "highlights in the Maemo Community" column for the council blog? | 09:41 |
| solmumaha | yes | 09:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | So far that "community aggregation" we were shooting for has been me (and nobody else) talking about things that interest me. | 09:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Why is great for me and people that are interested in the things I'm interested in, but tends to leave a lot out. | 09:42 |
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| GeneralAntilles | So, if we were to look at the last 2 weeks, we'd have short paragraphs on Mer, Canola in Bugzilla, the server improvements, and the maemo.org design stuff. | 09:44 |
| hahlobit | does maemo-devs know what apps people are using, and perhaps like to use these tablets? | 09:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | hahlobit, who are "maemo-devs"? | 09:48 |
| hahlobit | maybe people who nokia pays? | 09:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, OK, people working for Maemo Software | 09:49 |
| hahlobit | yes | 09:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Um, well, http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Remarkable_community_projects https://wiki.maemo.org/Fremantle_Stars | 09:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Those have both had quite a bit of play within Nokia. | 09:49 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Fremantle Stars is still under review. | 09:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | So, yeah, I'd say they have a pretty good idea. | 09:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's also a boatload of stats available from downloads.maemo.org | 09:50 |
| hahlobit | ok sometines just wonder to who is tablets made for | 09:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, Nokia is interested in building a strong community around it before they really push it for end users. | 09:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | We're on step 3 of a 5 step program to putting together the "kick ass end-user-ready tablet" | 09:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which is why they do things like the contributor discount program and such | 09:54 |
| hahlobit | oh i see | 09:54 |
| hahlobit | not for geeks or sysadmins then but for average joe | 09:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Right | 09:57 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Ugh, TinyMCE sucks. | 10:05 |
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| * GeneralAntilles stabs his eyes out. | 10:10 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | Oh lord, no wonder maemo.org's HTML looks like shit | 10:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's TinyMCE | 10:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | <p> </p> for linebreaks . . . nice. | 10:34 |
| woglinde | tinymce? | 10:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://tinymce.moxiecode.com/ | 10:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | WYSIWYG editor | 10:34 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: There are some settings. | 10:34 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Maybe we can tweak them. | 10:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | <h3 style="font-size: 1.17em;"> . . . what? | 10:35 |
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| JasonWoof | I'm having major problems with browser lately | 10:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Alright, how's this format? http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i/ | 10:46 |
| JasonWoof | it starts up, and then says "updating..." forever | 10:46 |
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| JasonWoof | that a known problem? | 10:47 |
| JasonWoof | I have n810 diablo | 10:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | /etc/init.d/tablet-browser-daemon restart | 10:49 |
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| JasonWoof | also, is there a lightweight graphical browser like dillo or links2 -g ported?' | 10:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Both, probably. | 10:50 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: looks good | 10:51 |
| Jaffa | Morning all | 10:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hi, Jaffa. | 10:52 |
| * Stskeeps curses his headache | 10:54 | |
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| aquatix | hm, speaking of MicroB, the gecko version is still from that firefox 3 beta? | 10:55 |
| aquatix | it'd be nice if that was updated :/ | 10:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | alpha 1 | 10:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, it definitely will for Fremantle | 10:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Dunno about Diablo. | 10:56 |
| aquatix | meh :) | 10:56 |
| * aquatix wonders whether fremantle will run on his n810 | 10:57 | |
| X-Fade | aquatix: I'm sure that at least parts will. | 10:57 |
| X-Fade | Apart from the hardware specific things for OMAP3.. | 10:58 |
| aquatix | true | 10:58 |
| * Stskeeps wonders how much of Mer will run on a 770.. | 10:58 | |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm actually not particularly worried about it either way | 10:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | It should be pretty straightforward for the community to roll their own support for OMAP2 devices. | 10:58 |
| aquatix | yeah | 10:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Easier than it would've been to roll support for the 770, anyway. | 10:58 |
| aquatix | our community is awesome as is :) | 10:58 |
| aquatix | i guess | 10:59 |
| aquatix | is that because the 770 is too constrained? | 10:59 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Combination of Maemo being more open now (wifi driver helps a LOT) | 10:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | and a little less hardware constraint | 10:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | I mean, OMAP2 is constrained compared to OMAP3 | 10:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | But it's a lot better than OMAP1 in the grand scheme. | 10:59 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Some Fremantle tech is gonna make it to Diablo anyway | 11:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Tracker should be getting a beta release on Diablo. | 11:01 |
| Stskeeps | if they keep on publishing in trunk.. :P | 11:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | and it'll be a lot easier to get the new browser running on old hardware when it's all open source. ;) | 11:01 |
| * Stskeeps was planning on going for tear or something ;> | 11:01 | |
| * aquatix should take a look at the changes in fremantle | 11:02 | |
| GeneralAntilles | aquatix, there's a package diff for the alpha SDK release on maemo.org somewhere | 11:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | and wikipedia has a decent overview. | 11:03 |
| * Stskeeps is still dissatisfied libhildon doesn't seem to be updated in public but that may be part of a bigger strategy | 11:03 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, prod somebody about it? | 11:04 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: i only have the suspiscion cos hildon control panel requires hildon-pannable-area.h, and this is nowhere to be seen | 11:04 |
| Stskeeps | and if i was nokia, i would sure as hell not want to give chinese producers a head start :P | 11:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, you can never be certain unless you ask. :) | 11:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | It could be as simple as a mistake | 11:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | alarmd is actually open, but the source (still) isn't available. | 11:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | What license is it under, anyway? | 11:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | When should we start suing? | 11:05 |
| Stskeeps | alarmd is possible to get through old versions | 11:05 |
| Stskeeps | and it's fairly easy to implement, too | 11:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anyway, it could be a simple oversight, so prodding some people may induce results. ;) | 11:07 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, i might.. just have to get over the next couple of days and let the builders churn away | 11:08 |
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| Stskeeps | we haven't reached that level of sanity just yet :P | 11:08 |
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| Stskeeps | GTK has been compiling for 9 1/2 hours so far on ARM | 11:09 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 11:09 |
| w00t | ugh | 11:09 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lol | 11:09 |
| woglinde | Stskeeps lol | 11:09 |
| Stskeeps | worst part is it's not the compilation that takes a long time | 11:09 |
| Stskeeps | it's doc generation | 11:09 |
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| RST38h | Sts: Overclock it! | 11:25 |
| RST38h | Sts: Are you willing to submerge your Beagle in motor oil? =) | 11:26 |
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| Stskeeps | RST38h: beagle has already killed two MMCs.. its in a qemu arm now | 11:26 |
| RST38h | (btw, why do you want to generate docs? on an ARM?) | 11:26 |
| RST38h | Ah | 11:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, it's not the heat that's the issue. | 11:26 |
| Stskeeps | nature of gtk debian packages | 11:27 |
| Stskeeps | it builds docs anyway | 11:27 |
| RST38h | General: Who knows? I don't think anybody has tried that so far | 11:27 |
| RST38h | May be the heat or just plai nunability of the silicon to run at higher frequency | 11:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, well, TI engineers that I've talked to know. :P | 11:27 |
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| RST38h | General: Oh, the engineers will always tell you not to exceed whatever is written in the datasheet =) | 11:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | You could run it at 900MHz easily | 11:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | but the life expectancy at that voltage goes way down | 11:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not only engineers | 11:28 |
| RST38h | You mean, they are saying you can run it at higher clock if you raise the core voltage? | 11:28 |
| RST38h | And at higher core voltage it will die sooner but won't heat up in the process? | 11:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | That was my understanding | 11:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm certain it'll run faster | 11:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | er | 11:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/faster/hotter/ | 11:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | But I don't believe it's the heat that kills it | 11:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Admittedly I'm not an EE, so I don't really no. ;) | 11:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/no/know/ | 11:30 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: Admittedly I'm knowt an EE, so I don't really no. ;) | 11:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | I also fail at English | 11:31 |
| * RST38h kinda suspects that anything up to 650MHz will be ok, but not all chips will function reliably at this clock rate | 11:32 | |
| RST38h | But it usually heat that kills it and of course it heats up more when you raise core voltage | 11:33 |
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| hahlobit | Stskeeps: can matchbox-keyboard be set local languages or is it english only? | 11:42 |
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| * GeneralAntilles thinks up more random shit for X-Fade to fix. :P | 11:57 | |
| X-Fade | Heh, that took you a while to notice ;) | 11:57 |
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| * RST38h has got some | 11:57 | |
| RST38h | X-Fade: When not logged in, go to Downloads page and try to login | 11:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | thingsforxfadetodo.maemo.org | 11:58 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: Once you submit your name/password, the maemo.org will return you back to http://... URL you came from, without showing your login status | 11:58 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: It should really direct you to https://... URL where it correctly shows that you are logged in | 11:59 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: It behaves as designed? | 11:59 |
| RST38h | This bug only occurred recently though | 11:59 |
| X-Fade | We force you back to http after login. | 11:59 |
| RST38h | X-Fade: I don't think this is by design. When you log in (type your credentials) it should SHOW you logged in | 11:59 |
| X-Fade | But I see logged in status directly after the redirect? | 11:59 |
| RST38h | With http:// it never shows me logged status | 12:00 |
| X-Fade | shift-reload? | 12:00 |
| RST38h | same shit | 12:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | bergie, ping. | 12:00 |
| X-Fade | Works in all my browsers. | 12:00 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: try adding ?blalala to the url ? | 12:01 |
| RST38h | Ah, this worked | 12:01 |
| X-Fade | Sounds like a cache somewhere ;) | 12:01 |
| RST38h | Weird. We do go through a proxy here, so that may be the reason | 12:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | The new Midgard toolbar seems way buggier than the old one. | 12:03 |
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| X-Fade | RST38h: Is your karma better now? | 12:05 |
| RST38h | dunno, lemme check | 12:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | He's got no Thanks. | 12:07 |
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| RST38h | X-Fade: Yep, no itt thanks section | 12:07 |
| RST38h | Although it is definitely counted into the total | 12:07 |
| RST38h | I think lardman has got the same kind of a problem | 12:07 |
| X-Fade | Hmm yeah weird, as I see this on recount: (karma: 603.5 comments: 4 favourites: 2.5 buries: 1 blogs: 0 products: 350 discussion: 8 groups: 3 bugzilla_reported: 64 bugzilla_comments: 7 itt_thanks: 131 itt_posts: 19 mediawiki_edits: 14) | 12:08 |
| RST38h | Looks correct | 12:08 |
| X-Fade | yeah, so now I need to debug why it doesn't show it. | 12:08 |
| RST38h | Check if there is a hardcoded limit on the number of karma sections | 12:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm pretty sure it's a Nokia conspiracy | 12:09 |
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| RST38h | I know it sounds stupid, but it would not be illogical | 12:09 |
| X-Fade | No, it is not there. | 12:09 |
| X-Fade | Because it does show for me or GA for example. | 12:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Wonder if INdT is gonna come up with anything cool for the profile page. | 12:11 |
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| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: There is a lot of layout work to be done ;) | 12:12 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I don't envy the work involved. :\ | 12:12 |
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| lardman | morning | 12:17 |
| woglinde | hi lardman | 12:17 |
| lardman | hey woglinde | 12:17 |
| RST38h | lardman moo | 12:18 |
| lardman | hello RST38h | 12:18 |
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| bergie | GeneralAntilles: pong | 12:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | bergie, are there open tickets about the new midgard toolbar? | 12:37 |
| bergie | not IIRC | 12:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | In WebKit I can't move it, I just select lots of text when I try, and FireFox 3 (PPC Mac) I can move it, but it also selects lots of text when I do. | 12:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | Seems like a bit of a regression from the last version. | 12:37 |
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| bergie | GeneralAntilles: ok... it was migrated to jQuery for the Ragnaroek upgrade | 12:38 |
| Stskeeps | hahlobit: i have no clue. possibly | 12:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | Does the toolbar work normally for other people? | 12:41 |
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| X-Fade | Works for me in ff3. | 12:42 |
| X-Fade | And even IE. | 12:43 |
| Luria | anyone know the contrast ratio of the n800 screen? | 12:45 |
| qwerty12 | Works here in FF3 on Ubuntu. But like GeneralAntilles says, it does select text sometimes but it's nothing major imo | 12:45 |
| Luria | or the contrast ratio of cell type lcds in general? | 12:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Contrast ratios are so bogus | 12:46 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I don't even see the toolbar on Opera 9 | 12:46 |
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| Luria | still, i need a ballpark number | 12:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | A little above average? | 12:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maybe 300:1 | 12:48 |
| jagernot | lardman: i heard u work on maemo sound api..true? | 12:49 |
| Luria | sounds about what i thought. | 12:49 |
| Luria | thanks | 12:49 |
| Luria | big help | 12:49 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Hrm, X-Fade, the Council RSS seems a bit stale. http://maemo.org/news//planet-maemo/category/feed:0ffd60645267b49419c542bd55f461df/ | 12:50 |
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| lardman | jagernot: not really, i do some DSP hacking | 12:50 |
| jagernot | lardman: hmm btw do you know how to capture microphone? - esound instead of gstreamer? | 12:51 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Let me try something. | 12:51 |
| lardman | jagernot: no, I'm afraid not | 12:52 |
| lardman | why? | 12:53 |
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| jagernot | i want to do something like RjDj on n810 | 12:54 |
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| jagernot | i cant read mic using esound..it totally crashes the tablet | 12:54 |
| lardman | why not use gstreamer? | 12:54 |
| jagernot | i dont know how to get sample data out of gstreamer | 12:54 |
| jagernot | dsppcmsrc -> dsppcmsink | 12:54 |
| jagernot | how do i get samples from dsppcmsrc without writing to file and reading it | 12:55 |
| lardman | you read it into your pipeline | 12:55 |
| jagernot | so i setup dsppcmsrc | 12:55 |
| jagernot | as my source | 12:55 |
| jagernot | then connect it to what to get samples piped to me? | 12:56 |
| lardman | yeah, and out the end of the pipeline you should get a buffer filled with some number of samples | 12:56 |
| lardman | that's my understanding anyway | 12:56 |
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| lardman | what does the maemo-recorder app do? | 12:56 |
| lardman | pipes straight to file? | 12:56 |
| jagernot | yes | 12:56 |
| jagernot | dsppcmsrc->dsppcmsink | 12:56 |
| jagernot | no samples handled anywhere as much i can see | 12:57 |
| lardman | that sounds like it outputs to the speaker...? | 12:57 |
| jagernot | yeah when playing it does | 12:57 |
| jagernot | then it creates a file sink | 12:57 |
| lardman | can it record to file? | 12:57 |
| jagernot | and outs when saving | 12:57 |
| lardman | do you have an url to save me searching? | 12:58 |
| jagernot | url for what? | 12:58 |
| jagernot | maemo-recorder? | 12:58 |
| lardman | yeah, whatever you're basing on | 12:59 |
| lardman | don't worry, I'vegot it | 12:59 |
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| jagernot | lardman, ok filesink->dsppcmsink for playing file | 13:04 |
| jagernot | and dsppcmsrc, filesink for recording | 13:05 |
| lardman | yeah, what does wavparse do? | 13:05 |
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| lardman | in any case it ought to be possible, not sure how off the top of my head | 13:06 |
| lardman | check the gstreamer docs or a guru if there's one around? | 13:06 |
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| lardman | https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/trunk/maemo-barcode.c?revision=39&root=maemo-barcode&view=markup | 13:07 |
| lardman | not quite the same, as this is for images, but search for the following "Set image sink to emit handoff-signal before throwing away" | 13:08 |
| lardman | looks like you could create a fake sink, and get it to signal, then grab the data from its buffer; presumably the same thing will work for you | 13:08 |
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| jagernot | hmm yeah thanks will look into it | 13:09 |
| lardman | np | 13:09 |
| lardman | not that I was actually very helpful of course :) | 13:09 |
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| * GeneralAntilles ponders how we're gonna dole out these bi-monthly community updates. . . . | 13:18 | |
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| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: take in interesting developments in community? | 13:20 |
| Stskeeps | i mean, of interesting things there are pybattery, management tools, .. others | 13:20 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Mostly I'm thinking the rest of the council should make some posts already. :P | 13:21 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah, :P | 13:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman seems the least busy, so I'm thinking I should target him. :P | 13:25 |
| lardman | hmm | 13:26 |
| lardman | least busy is why I'm not seen much these days | 13:26 |
| Stskeeps | heh, didn't know you were on council :P | 13:27 |
| lardman | easier to spy on you lot that way ;) | 13:27 |
| lardman | didn't you see me talk at the summit>? | 13:28 |
| Stskeeps | i wasn't at the summit | 13:28 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:28 |
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| lardman | yeah, there was a recording too though | 13:29 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 13:29 |
| * GeneralAntilles glares at lardman. | 13:29 | |
| * lardman looks back over his pile of papers to write and samples to test | 13:29 | |
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| lardman | GeneralAntilles: so what would you like me to do then>? | 13:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Blog about something community-relevant. :P | 13:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, more specifically, compile a Community Highlights post in 2 weeks. | 13:36 |
| lardman | grrr, blogging | 13:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ehehe | 13:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's easy, just pick out some of the more interesting thing that will have happened in the next 2 weeks, compile some links and a short summary and post away: http://maemo.org/community/council/community_highlights_for_december_2008-part_i/ | 13:37 |
| lardman | so I should shine my crystal ball too then? ;) | 13:37 |
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| GeneralAntilles | They'll have happened in 2 weeks. :P | 13:38 |
| lardman | so you're after only stuff in the next 2 weeks, or the state of the art? | 13:38 |
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| GeneralAntilles | 2 weeks from now, write a summary of all the most of the community-relevant stuff that's happened between now and then | 13:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | So if we finalize a new maemo.org style, mention that | 13:39 |
| lardman | uuurgh | 13:39 |
| lardman | right | 13:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Either that, or get Jaffa/tim/etrunko to do it. :P | 13:39 |
| * lardman grubmles about needing to write about stuff that doesn't interest him | 13:40 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Or trade me for something of equal or greater value. | 13:40 |
| lardman | :) | 13:40 |
| lardman | now you're talking | 13:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 13:40 |
| * GeneralAntilles may have discovered a great motivator. | 13:41 | |
| lardman | let me have a look around this evening, pretty busy all day I'm afraid | 13:41 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: there should be coming SDK and other stuff out in two weeks i guess? | 13:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, seems like a probability. | 13:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | The council will hear something sometime before the actual public announcement is made, and we haven't heard anything yet, soooo. . . . | 13:43 |
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| qwerty12 | Grr, bollocks, new transmission release. And after I'd made the ui better on 1.34... | 13:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 13:56 |
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| hahlobit | Stskeeps: is deblet kernel same than maemo? | 14:02 |
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| Stskeeps | hahlobit: yes | 14:09 |
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| cy3o3 | sup | 14:10 |
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| cy3o3 | anyone know if there's something up with the maemo repositories? | 14:12 |
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| cy3o3 | every time I try to install an app the bitch just hangs at "preparing for installation, please wait" | 14:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | The bitch? lol. . . | 14:13 |
| X-Fade | cy3o3: What application are you trying to install? | 14:13 |
| cy3o3 | initially ukmp | 14:13 |
| cy3o3 | then iphome | 14:13 |
| cy3o3 | both just hung.. | 14:13 |
| cy3o3 | hmm | 14:13 |
| cy3o3 | perhaps I'll boot the bitch | 14:14 |
| qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles, I know, first time I've heard h-a-m referred as a bitch :P | 14:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | apt-get install ukmp will probably be enlightening. | 14:15 |
| cy3o3 | yeah | 14:15 |
| cy3o3 | I have an sshd on it | 14:15 |
| cy3o3 | but uhhh, how do I get the ip? | 14:15 |
| cy3o3 | cat /etc/hosts ? | 14:15 |
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| cy3o3 | ifconfig is not on there.. | 14:15 |
| cy3o3 | iphome seems a necessity | 14:16 |
| qwerty12 | cy3o3, /sbin/ifconfig | grep "inet addr" | 14:16 |
| cy3o3 | ah so it is there, just not in my path | 14:16 |
| cy3o3 | awesome.. thanks | 14:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or just open up Connection manager | 14:16 |
| lardman | cy3o3: it's not in your path as you're presumably not root | 14:19 |
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| cy3o3 | lardman: kew thanks mang | 14:21 |
| cy3o3 | I'm all ssh'd in now 'n stuff so should be cake from here | 14:21 |
| cy3o3 | anyone have any thoughts on ukmp vs canola? | 14:21 |
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| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, have you tried the new ukmp | 14:37 |
| lcuk | rotated aspect seems more logical for handheld use :) | 14:37 |
| lcuk | i get a sore neck though when using kickstand/crate | 14:37 |
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| cy3o3 | meh | 14:41 |
| cy3o3 | just installed ukmp 1.7 then installed manually the 1.82 package and it just crashes trying to read the ID info from my music | 14:42 |
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| lcuk | must have the wrong kind of music then | 14:42 |
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| cy3o3 | all mp3s | 14:42 |
| lcuk | i think kontorri is into lift muzak, check your collection uses that and try again :D | 14:42 |
| lcuk | i dunno why it would crash tbh | 14:43 |
| lcuk | worked fine for the 5 albums ive got here (certainly better than canola has ever done) | 14:43 |
| lcuk | i at least see albums in ukmp | 14:43 |
| cy3o3 | I have like 7gb | 14:44 |
| cy3o3 | maybe it's choking on that for some reason | 14:44 |
| lcuk | maybe | 14:44 |
| Stskeeps | setting system clock to 2108-11-25 12:44:11 UTC (88323355) | 14:44 |
| Stskeeps | neat | 14:44 |
| X-Fade | Heh, classic y2k problem ;) | 14:45 |
| Stskeeps | im astonished linux even functios | 14:45 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, linux functions but you wont get any software updates and i think gps will notlock itself correctly | 14:49 |
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| hahlobit | i managed change keyboard layout but got € and no number 4 anymore :P | 14:53 |
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| hahlobit | but as a n800 user, nice to know that layout obeys .matchbox/keyboard.xml | 14:56 |
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| lcuk | mmmm thankyou | 14:57 |
| lcuk | hahlobit, you just anszwered a question ive pondered about :D | 14:59 |
| hahlobit | :) | 14:59 |
| cy3o3 | cool | 14:59 |
| cy3o3 | ukmp works now | 14:59 |
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| lcuk | excellent, told oyu muzak was all you needed | 14:59 |
| cy3o3 | I had some filenames with interesting characters in them | 14:59 |
| cy3o3 | just blew that out and works dandy :) wewt | 15:00 |
| lcuk | heh cool | 15:00 |
| lcuk | bbiab anywa | 15:00 |
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| riot | hmhmm | 15:35 |
| Stskeeps | hum | 15:35 |
| riot | my n810 doesn't recognize the sd-card correctly anymore :( | 15:36 |
| riot | i can manually mount it, but the mediaplayer ignores it etc.pp. | 15:36 |
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| riot | gnf. i HATE that. | 15:38 |
| riot | vanishing memory cards.. pff stupid. | 15:38 |
| riot | reboot doesn't help | 15:40 |
| johnx | try running fsck on it or repair or whatever | 15:43 |
| Stskeeps | morning johnx | 15:43 |
| johnx | hey Stskeeps | 15:43 |
| johnx | actually I'm off to bed | 15:43 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 15:43 |
| Stskeeps | okay | 15:43 |
| Stskeeps | normal timezone now, eh ;) | 15:43 |
| johnx | yeahtrying to fix my schedule for work :) | 15:44 |
| Stskeeps | i'm just waiting for the stuff to compile anyway, and trying to make the beagleboard act nice | 15:44 |
| johnx | I'm going to track down why sapwood doesn't work right on the zaurus ... even if it kills ... someone else | 15:44 |
| Stskeeps | and do some roadmap work | 15:44 |
| Stskeeps | gtk took 9 1/2 hours to compile, so, atleast that hurdle is over :P | 15:45 |
| johnx | O_o | 15:45 |
| riot | um.. the fstab is FSCKED up | 15:45 |
| johnx | with docs or without? | 15:45 |
| johnx | riot, the fstab isn't used | 15:45 |
| riot | zomg.. | 15:46 |
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| johnx | it's not used on lots of distros | 15:46 |
| WormFood | what is not used on a lot of distros? common sense? ;) | 15:46 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: with. gtk debian package does not respect not building the arch-indep parts only | 15:46 |
| Stskeeps | er, arch-dep | 15:46 |
| johnx | WormFood, things not in fstab are often automounted | 15:47 |
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| WormFood | is there an input method for maemo, that would allow me to write chinese characters? | 15:47 |
| riot | the card seems to be not recognized anymore :( | 15:47 |
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| Stskeeps | WormFood: think i've seen one for japanese atleast | 15:48 |
| riot | menelaus 1-0072: Shutting off 'VMMC' << is that the external sd? | 15:48 |
| WormFood | I tried installing the chinese package and it fucked up my system!....I uninstalled it, and it didn't do a god damn thing....I'm rather pissed off, because now I can't enter text anymore | 15:48 |
| johnx | riot, you don't even seen the device in /dev ? | 15:48 |
| riot | johnx: nope | 15:48 |
| riot | on my workstation, i do | 15:49 |
| WormFood | it installed scim, which I'm familiar with, but it simply does not work....or at least, it breaks the on screen keyboard....can't even get it to come up now | 15:49 |
| riot | filesystem is ok | 15:49 |
| johnx | riot, make sure it's in all the way | 15:49 |
| WormFood | is this a known problem, or is that package for the N810 only? (and if it is only for the N810, why isn't it labeled as such?) | 15:49 |
| riot | aah, there it is again (!??!) | 15:50 |
| riot | maybe the contacts.. hmm. i'm sure it was all the way in | 15:50 |
| riot | aah, wonderful, solved everything. | 15:50 |
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| WormFood | anyone have a clue, as to why my (soft) keyboard quit working, on my N800, after installing the chinese support package? (and won't uninstall) | 16:37 |
| qwerty12 | MaemoCJK uninstalls the Hildon Input Method and replaces it with the Matchbox Keyboard | 16:37 |
| WormFood | but I can't get any keyboard to come up at all now...is that normal? | 16:38 |
| qwerty12 | Afaik, you have to run the keyboard manually from the statusbar icon | 16:38 |
| WormFood | I see no keyboard on the statusbar...I see the scim icon, but I selected everything with that, and I still can't get the keyboard to come back | 16:39 |
| WormFood | and when I uninstalled the same package I installed, it did nothing...it just removed the package from the list | 16:39 |
| WormFood | I really don't want to reinstall my entire system, but if I can't get it to work, then I'll have to do something | 16:40 |
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| caio1982 | WormFood: can't you get to it from ssh and uninstall maemocjk and put HIM back? | 16:44 |
| WormFood | it wasn't labeled as maemocjk | 16:45 |
| WormFood | it was labeled as something long....with simplified-chinese in the name | 16:45 |
| caio1982 | i was expecting a more boolean answer :) | 16:45 |
| WormFood | I didn't try to ssh into it | 16:46 |
| WormFood | oops...boolean eh | 16:46 |
| WormFood | how about "0" | 16:46 |
| caio1982 | :) | 16:47 |
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| lcuk | WormFood, is that ascii "0" or unicode? either way its still not boolean :P | 16:49 |
| WormFood | it is too boolean | 16:49 |
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| WormFood | strictly speaking, boolean does not mean a single one or zero | 16:50 |
| lcuk | but its ambigious, if its taken as a character representation it will be "non zero" and will not be treated as false (==0) | 16:52 |
| * lcuk is only yanking your chain though | 16:53 | |
| lcuk | (tough afternoon of customer coding) | 16:53 |
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| sjgadsby | Is bugs.maemo.org still running Bugzilla 2.22? | 17:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Something around there. | 17:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | Also: Hi, sjgadsby. :) | 17:01 |
| sjgadsby | Hello. | 17:01 |
| sjgadsby | Ah, thanks. I guess I'll hold off from investigating the use of XMLRPC in the bug jar script then. | 17:02 |
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| baaba | how do people deal with the differing libstdc++ versions when using the 2007q3 toolchain? | 17:33 |
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| baaba | taking the new so and changing the symlink in /usr/lib on the device seems like a pretty scary thing to do, though things aren't crashing and burning yet | 17:35 |
| baaba | but having to export LD_PRELOAD for everything that's compiled with the toolchain gets kind of annoying, especially when i'm doing stuff with gstreamer plugins :P | 17:36 |
| pupnik | my experiments with differing libstdc (and ++) weren't successful yet. i think jott had some success | 17:38 |
| pupnik | btw, what version of gcc does that toolchain have, baaba | 17:38 |
| baaba | 4.2.1 | 17:39 |
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| baaba | it appears the specific release coming with that has an incompatibility | 17:39 |
| pupnik | ohhhh ... arrrgghh | 17:39 |
| baaba | damn | 17:39 |
| pupnik | //wantgcc4.0 | 17:39 |
| pupnik | 4.x rather | 17:39 |
| pupnik | wake me when it's standard for ITOS | 17:40 |
| baaba | want the whole system compiled with 4.3 ;) | 17:40 |
| qwerty12 | pupnik, I have a target in scratchbox with gcc 4.3.2. Works for me sometimes :P. (aircrack-ng was packaged fine with it). Hi btw | 17:40 |
| pupnik | hey :) nice qwerty12 .. | 17:40 |
| baaba | qwerty12, what do you do with the new .so? | 17:40 |
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| baaba | or do you use static linking | 17:40 |
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| qwerty12 | baaba, I haven't actually compiled anything in it that seems to use libstdc++, or if I have, my tablet doesn't seem to notice any difference. No, I only static link when cc'ing for my router :) | 17:41 |
| baaba | heh okay | 17:41 |
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| lrcg | I have now debian booting on n800, no x, but i can ssh to it. I don't care about graphics yet, but i'd like to have dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/fb0 working. It doesn't give errors, the device gets full, but the "booting from mmc..." text stays on screen. What should i look at to get it working? | 17:48 |
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| Stskeeps | what did you base on, debootstrap yourself, or deblet? :P | 17:50 |
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| lrcg | debootstrap, it was this frisky thing from mojo actually | 17:50 |
| Stskeeps | that's not debian ;) | 17:50 |
| lrcg | ubuntu yeah | 17:50 |
| Stskeeps | look at how deblet does it, it has working boot scripts. Or look into what we're doing with Mer | 17:50 |
| Stskeeps | which is a research OS alike Maemo based on ubuntu armel | 17:51 |
| Meiz_n810 | or add mer repo and install deblet-rescue-menu :P | 17:51 |
| lrcg | ok thanks | 17:51 |
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| Stskeeps | lrcg: you should hang in here, then you have some chance to get something reasonable going | 17:52 |
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| Stskeeps | and consider looking at http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed and http://wiki.maemo.org/Mer_Blueprint | 17:53 |
| Stskeeps | (we always need hands and compared to running your own ubuntu deriative :P) | 17:54 |
| Stskeeps | +it's better | 17:55 |
| Stskeeps | if you want the reason why it doesn't show anything: framebuffer driver isn't loaded and fb updating set to auto | 17:55 |
| Stskeeps | framebuffer console, that is | 17:56 |
| ron1n | wow how many nokia tablet OS's are their, I didn;t even know there was an ubuntu variant in development | 17:56 |
| Stskeeps | ron1n: this isn't a nokia thing though, it's a community thing | 17:56 |
| ron1n | well, I mean community OS's for nokia tablets | 17:56 |
| Stskeeps | (it was the m-r thing before) | 17:56 |
| ron1n | I see | 17:57 |
| ron1n | sweet | 17:57 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: and http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=243768&postcount=8 and http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=243770&postcount=9 too :P | 17:57 |
| Stskeeps | er, lrcg: | 17:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maemo, Deblet, Mer, Poky | 17:57 |
| Stskeeps | angstrom too i guess | 17:58 |
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| Stskeeps | mamna | 17:58 |
| Stskeeps | mamona | 17:58 |
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| ron1n | all debian/ubuntu based? | 17:59 |
| Meiz_n810 | android? | 17:59 |
| Stskeeps | ron1n: nah | 17:59 |
| RST38h | Mammona | 17:59 |
| Meiz_n810 | some people boot into android | 17:59 |
| ron1n | sweet I'll check these out then | 17:59 |
| Stskeeps | ron1n: nah, some of them are non-debian | 17:59 |
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| RST38h | Actually, in English it is going to be Mammon: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mammon | 17:59 |
| ron1n | Meiz_n810, yeah but its not very functional from what I read | 17:59 |
| Meiz_n810 | yep | 17:59 |
| RST38h | False god of riches and avarice | 18:00 |
| ron1n | I love the tablets, but hate debian | 18:01 |
| ron1n | community distros are awesome =] | 18:01 |
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| Meiz_n810 | why hate debian ? | 18:01 |
| Meiz_n810 | it is about armv4 binaries are slow on tablet? | 18:02 |
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| RST38h | should be about the same speed | 18:04 |
| RST38h | I think hating Debian is about differentiation though =) | 18:04 |
| Stskeeps | philosophical question, is Maemo device lock pointless? | 18:05 |
| Stskeeps | as in the one with PIN | 18:05 |
| Stskeeps | i mean, it can be subverted with reflashing initfs | 18:05 |
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| RST38h | How many crooks will reflash initfs? | 18:07 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, yes. as I proved, anyone with a linux computer or Mac can get the pin | 18:08 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: so it truth it could just be a gconf value? | 18:08 |
| Stskeeps | +in | 18:08 |
| RST38h | On the other hand, a remote-disable thingie would probably be useful | 18:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's not about being unbreakable | 18:08 |
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| * Stskeeps is thinking how to get rid of DSME/MCE/etc's hell of hardware interfacing | 18:09 | |
| GeneralAntilles | It's about being difficult enough that it would deter most criminals. | 18:09 |
| Stskeeps | i want to move most of it to HAL so | 18:09 |
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| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12, you'll notice that safes aren't advertised as "unbreakable", only in how many minutes it would take a professional safe cracker to open them. | 18:10 |
| Stskeeps | to make the stuff more portable | 18:10 |
| Stskeeps | ie, call a HAL method to set brightness, not talk to DSME | 18:10 |
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| RST38h | naughty | 18:10 |
| ShadowJK_ | I thought it was for keeping family members out | 18:10 |
| X-Fade | Stskeeps: That is the idea about Ohm in Fremantle, I guess? | 18:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | ShadowJK_, criminals, family members, it's all the same for some people. :P | 18:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Basically it's for preventing unauthorized casual access. | 18:11 |
| ShadowJK_ | yes | 18:11 |
| ShadowJK_ | mind, I'm using the keylock for that ;-) | 18:11 |
| ShadowJK_ | it confuses sufficiently | 18:11 |
| qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles, Perhaps, but doing a wget http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/initfs/initfs.jffs2 ; flasher-3.0 -f -n initfs.jffs2 does not take long at all. Of course, it's quick because I provide the initfs image already. No denying that if I didn't, it would take a lot longer because you'd have to make the image first. | 18:12 |
| RST38h | The Great One explains to Nokia engineer the necessity of A2DP support in N900: http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Image:Chthulu_office.jpg | 18:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, A2DP support is already official for Fremantle. . . . | 18:13 |
| jaska | :D | 18:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12, it still requires physical access | 18:13 |
| RST38h | General: Good, one less engineer eaten. For now. | 18:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, that'd be a management issue, anyway, not an engineer's issue. | 18:14 |
| qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles, Of course. I assume anyone with a tablet that wants a pin has the tablet in their hands. | 18:14 |
| Stskeeps | X-Fade: yet they want to keep mce/dsme.. and im waiting for OHM to coem out | 18:14 |
| Stskeeps | so i want to see what direction they're going | 18:14 |
| X-Fade | I guess the sdk will tell more ;) | 18:14 |
| Stskeeps | and if they don't do it in sane way, there should definately be a push | 18:15 |
| Stskeeps | as it would benefit developers and themselves | 18:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12, sure, but if a friend at school steals it off your desk, then they wont be able to use it. | 18:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | It serves its purpose, preventing casual access | 18:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | and for that, it's hardly "useless" | 18:15 |
| Stskeeps | k | 18:16 |
| qwerty12 | Good point, I have yet to see a person in my school carrying a Linux laptop with flasher-3.0 on it :) | 18:16 |
| RST38h | qwerty: they will never show you! | 18:16 |
| qwerty12 | lol | 18:16 |
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| pupnik | <3 thinkpad T42P | 18:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't know how people use laptops. | 18:22 |
| Myrtti | I know but not going to tell you "HIHIHI" | 18:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | They pretty much seem designed to infuriate me with their suspect mobility and poor usability. | 18:23 |
| qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles, Especially males: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/health/2503291.stm :P | 18:24 |
| RST38h | General: Solution: don't save money next time you choose a laptop | 18:24 |
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| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, or my better solution: don't buy laptops at all. | 18:25 |
| * GeneralAntilles is, and always has been, laptop free. | 18:25 | |
| RST38h | General: Well, that one has several shortcomings - planes, trains, log cabins, you know... | 18:25 |
| RST38h | an ocassional spaceship too | 18:26 |
| Myrtti | I once had a "flash your 770 here" desk in a pub | 18:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's what I have a tablet for. | 18:26 |
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| Myrtti | we were having Ubuntu release party and went after the informal programming to a pub | 18:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, and trust me, the laptops I've used aren't budget models. | 18:26 |
| Myrtti | I happened to have the flasher on my laptop | 18:26 |
| RST38h | General: try doing serious coding work with a tablet | 18:26 |
| Myrtti | RST38h: not fair, I've done that | 18:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, thankfully I don't do much of that while mobile. | 18:26 |
| RST38h | Myrtti: How many lines of code? What language? Did you debug on the tablet as well? | 18:27 |
| inz | I hang around our school quite often, with a laptop, flasher-3.0 and suitable usb cables for 770/N800 and N810 | 18:27 |
| Myrtti | about 500, bash or php, no. | 18:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | inz, and how's that working out for you? | 18:28 |
| * Myrtti chuckles at inz and pinches his cheek | 18:29 | |
| inz | General, well, I have flashed my devices a couple of times. ;) | 18:29 |
| inz | *ow* | 18:29 |
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| RST38h | Myrtti: Ok. How about C/C++? 20k+ lines? And "yes" to debugging? | 18:30 |
| Myrtti | RST38h: oh, you mean Programming. I don't do Programming. | 18:30 |
| RST38h | Can your tablet and your finger on that virtual keyboard handle that? | 18:30 |
| Myrtti | I do LaTeX, dear. | 18:30 |
| * RST38h does programming, for better or for worse, so he needs a laptop for those cases | 18:30 | |
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| Myrtti | and IRC | 18:30 |
| RST38h | irc is already kind of a stretch on the tablet | 18:31 |
| Myrtti | not really | 18:31 |
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| Myrtti | irssi goodness wins. | 18:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Eh, I manage it alright. | 18:31 |
| zakkm | How is the battery life on Deblet compared to normal maemo? | 18:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | zakkm, lots worse. | 18:31 |
| zakkm | dang | 18:31 |
| zakkm | i want to use fvwm-crystal | 18:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | I guess IRC on the tablet could suck if you weren't very good with the finger keyboard. | 18:32 |
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| L0cutus | re, what is the n800 file system name ? | 18:32 |
| zakkm | GeneralAntilles: How bad we talking? | 18:32 |
| zakkm | I'm able to recharge it quite often | 18:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | 12 hours idle? | 18:33 |
| L0cutus | i mean the one on ssd | 18:33 |
| zakkm | wow thats bad | 18:33 |
| zakkm | why does it suck? | 18:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | L0cutus, NAND, and JFFS2 | 18:33 |
| L0cutus | thanks GeneralAntilles | 18:33 |
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| GeneralAntilles | zakkm, because Nokia did a fucking awesome job of making Maemo battery-friendly. ;) | 18:33 |
| zakkm | they should opensource that secret | 18:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | It is. | 18:34 |
| l7 | are there any commandline switches for osso-xterm? i'd like to get rid of the vertical scrollbar which is kinda useless in irssi | 18:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | l7, everything you need should be in gconf. | 18:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Get it to spit out its keys. | 18:34 |
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| zakkm | i saw a screenshot of fvwm-crystal on the nokia ( used it on my old desktop for awhile ) and it seems like it would be nice on the nokia | 18:35 |
| qwerty12 | l7, gconftool --set --type=bool /apps/osso/xterm/scrollbar 0 | 18:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or that | 18:35 |
| qwerty12 | ;) | 18:35 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I don't get how anybody can use a desktop wm on a tablet. | 18:36 |
| zakkm | hah maemo is really nice | 18:36 |
| zakkm | just think fvwm-crystal would work well | 18:36 |
| zakkm | gnome / kde seems weird though | 18:36 |
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| l7 | hrm | 18:37 |
| l7 | qwerty12: that didn't seem to change anything | 18:37 |
| qwerty12 | l7, works for me when I used it last time | 18:37 |
| l7 | i wonder if it's related to using penguinbait's SD install | 18:38 |
| guardian | hi, for testing purposes, I would like to code an app that once launched, captures the mouse and draws fullscreen overlays of what's being scribbled (think fullscreen overlay basic app) -- where should I start ? I'm not really sure how to draw on top of everything else on the screen | 18:38 |
| qwerty12 | And worked again when I just used it now. | 18:38 |
| guardian | maybe a top level transparent window, but i'm not sure this would work :/ | 18:38 |
| lcuk | X-Fade, were you dealing with maemo.org from the start? | 18:39 |
| * lcuk has just been perusing the archive.org :D | 18:39 | |
| l7 | qwerty12: hmm, do i need to create a directory or file named ~/.gconf first? | 18:39 |
| qwerty12 | no | 18:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, find the old application catalog wiki page. | 18:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | That thing was awesome. | 18:40 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: I've been community member from the start. Kinda ;) | 18:40 |
| lcuk | heh, we need to dig up more of these gems | 18:40 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: http://test.maemo.org/ | 18:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | After so long with teary, jittering, crappy Nokia tablets, graphics demos like this just make me gooey inside. . . . http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Dzih6CNSZJk | 18:40 |
| qwerty12 | guardian, gromit (http://packages.debian.org/etch/gromit) compiled when I tried it last time, worked very slowly though | 18:40 |
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| zakkm | wow | 18:41 |
| SHADOW__X | hello everyon | 18:41 |
| zakkm | GeneralAntilles: just watched it | 18:41 |
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| zakkm | thats really amazing | 18:41 |
| zakkm | how much is that | 18:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | The N900 is gonna be so tasty. . . . | 18:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | zakkm, it's not released | 18:42 |
| zakkm | ah | 18:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | and ARM only sells IP. | 18:42 |
| zakkm | ?? | 18:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | So first somebody like TI is going to have to license it. | 18:42 |
| SHADOW__X | when i install ablockplus,userswitch,flashblock on the microb browser and i try to open it it hangs with an updating screen | 18:42 |
| lcuk | thats slick, but the screen isnt responsive, and having it on a stand like that means its moves with pressure and doesnt react to him | 18:43 |
| zakkm | lol | 18:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, it's demoing an ARM GPU. | 18:43 |
| zakkm | i want those apps on the nokia :) | 18:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | No a hardware package. :rolleyes: | 18:43 |
| zakkm | future canola :) | 18:43 |
| lcuk | yes gen, i know | 18:43 |
| zakkm | future canola, possible? :P | 18:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, then why did you bring it up? <_< | 18:44 |
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| lcuk | for a prerecorded demo though having to reswipe a few times because it didnt react to touch isnt best (i know i had same shame..) | 18:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hrm, there's no good demos for OMAP3. | 18:45 |
| SHADOW__X | also even if i reboot the device and restart the browser twice i sitll cant go into the chrome settings for the installed add ons | 18:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | zakkm, anyway, that's the sort of capabilities we can expect from the N900. | 18:46 |
| lcuk | thats cos theres no good arm3 3d drivers out yet ;) | 18:46 |
| X-Fade | lcuk: Yeah, the touch screen doesn't seem to be that good on the demo. | 18:46 |
| zakkm | n900 .. couldnt afford that | 18:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, well, there really easy to get ahold of actually. | 18:46 |
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| zakkm | i only got the n800 cause i got it for $145 | 18:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/there/they're/ | 18:46 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: lcuk, well, they're really easy to get ahold of actually. | 18:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Especially if you're a company that would actually be making demos. | 18:47 |
| guardian | qwerty12: it's indeed very slow, even on a desktop box :( | 18:47 |
| lcuk | really, can i run a beagle in full hardware 3d now then? | 18:47 |
| guardian | qwerty12: but thx for the pointer | 18:47 |
| qwerty12 | heh :) | 18:47 |
| lcuk | crap bbiab | 18:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, sure, if you talked to jkridner about a 3d liqbase and signed an NDA. | 18:47 |
| SHADOW__X | anyone here have my issue? | 18:49 |
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| l7 | qwerty12: ah now it works! thanks for that tip | 18:54 |
| l7 | i wonder why it took several tries | 18:55 |
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| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, liqbase on omap3 will still blow away anything else purely due to less video bandwidth, if i decided to stick with the YUV updates i could get seamless kinetics with extremely good battery life and performance :) | 19:00 |
| lcuk | but chances are ill be moving back to rgb (it would also allow for the expansion onto windows desktop for another thing later on) | 19:01 |
| woodong50 | when n900 is out | 19:01 |
| jagernot | interesting thing is will staying full screen suck power more than say gtk? | 19:01 |
| jagernot | why i ask is a laptop with an nvidia 3d card is going to drain battery faster than one that has a generic video card | 19:02 |
| lcuk | depends whats happening, but the overlay doesnt have to be fullscreen, theres a windowed mode which i just dont use at present | 19:02 |
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| lcuk | yes of course jager, but that laptop will drain power whatever the case | 19:03 |
| jagernot | does using Xv drain battery fast than staying windowed mode? | 19:03 |
| lcuk | now if it was an arm laptop ;) | 19:03 |
| lcuk | wits not windowed vs xv, its what you are doing in those mode that counts | 19:03 |
| jagernot | i suppose its how many times u blit to the screen | 19:03 |
| lcuk | yeah | 19:03 |
| jagernot | hmm | 19:04 |
| lcuk | and fullscreen updates in both will drain the battery, but fullscreen yuv is less | 19:04 |
| jagernot | what is the max color u can set in yuv mode? | 19:04 |
| woodong50 | waiting n900, when is out? | 19:04 |
| jagernot | max red = ? | 19:04 |
| lcuk | 24bit full color | 19:04 |
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| SHADOW__X | anyone use microb addons? | 19:04 |
| jagernot | woodong: we are all waiting..while u r waiting why dont u program something for n810? | 19:04 |
| lcuk | its not red or green or blue though | 19:04 |
| SHADOW__X | adblock plus flash block? | 19:05 |
| jagernot | 8 bit red then | 19:05 |
| jagernot | assuming no alpha | 19:05 |
| lcuk | not even that | 19:05 |
| lardman | how large an effect is blit number of battery life? | 19:05 |
| lardman | s/of/on | 19:05 |
| lcuk | 8 bit brightness (greys) + the chroma channels | 19:05 |
| lcuk | i dunno lardman, but purely due to less bandwidth/memory moved around theres less to do hence less | 19:06 |
| jagernot | i think when u r doing a game | 19:06 |
| lardman | I doubt it's a large saving | 19:06 |
| jagernot | u clear screen, blit | 19:06 |
| jagernot | that is very costly power wise | 19:06 |
| lcuk | you do that whatever mode you are in | 19:06 |
| jagernot | cos u paint the screen only when necessary in a gui program | 19:06 |
| lardman | not activating 3D hardware might be, but purely bliting less data I doubt it | 19:06 |
| lcuk | yeah lardman, agreed, but its still less :P | 19:06 |
| jagernot | no lcuk..not in every program | 19:07 |
| jagernot | most gui programs wont paint until required | 19:07 |
| jagernot | and that too paint only the invalidated rectangle | 19:07 |
| lardman | jagernot: the inefficiency there is in process time rather than power though (though related) | 19:07 |
| jagernot | can you explain lardman? | 19:08 |
| jagernot | 2 many jargons / inch ;) | 19:08 |
| lardman | trying to tease out whether blitting consumes significant power | 19:08 |
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| jagernot | yep we are discussing that | 19:09 |
| lcuk | lardman, yeah of course it does - whichever method you use | 19:09 |
| lcuk | anyway, i was meant to be gone for a bit :P | 19:09 |
| jagernot | lcuk: whichever method means? | 19:09 |
| l7 | has anyone gotten copy-paste to work in osso-xterm? | 19:10 |
| jagernot | blitting a fixed number of times per second will take more power than draw only when required and only the surface that needs repainting | 19:10 |
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| l7 | roxterm's copy-paste makes life much better | 19:11 |
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| lardman | jagernot: yes, more processor useage; the but if you have to blit a fixed number of times a second, does it save power to blit less data....? | 19:11 |
| jagernot | yep | 19:12 |
| lcuk | jagernot, compare the same game rendered at 25fps using xv or SDL. both require fullscreen blits, the same pixel size and quantity, but xv needs less memory bandwidth | 19:12 |
| lcuk | gahhh! | 19:12 |
| jagernot | SDL would use Xv under the hood i thought | 19:13 |
| lardman | anyway, I doubt it saves much power blitting less data | 19:13 |
| lardman | but that's just my opinion of course | 19:13 |
| lardman | based on nothing at all | 19:13 |
| jagernot | lol | 19:13 |
| jagernot | data has to be moved | 19:14 |
| jagernot | less the data moved better it is always | 19:14 |
| lardman | note the "much" in my statement | 19:14 |
| jagernot | so yeah blitting less data requires less resources | 19:14 |
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| jagernot | less power | 19:14 |
| jagernot | unless | 19:14 |
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| jagernot | if its all wrapped up in 1 instruction which will only blit the whole display | 19:15 |
| Proteous | l7: copy paste works in osso-xterm if you use the menu | 19:15 |
| woodong50 | is it possible to play online game on n810 | 19:15 |
| l7 | Proteous: yeah, using the menu is very slow | 19:15 |
| l7 | roxterm can copy with ctrl-shift-c | 19:16 |
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| Proteous | how do you press 3 buttons at the same time? | 19:16 |
| lardman | use you nose? | 19:16 |
| Proteous | heh | 19:16 |
| lardman | s/you/your | 19:16 |
| jagernot | lcuk: if both SDL and Xv require to do the same job at 25 fps - full scr, same pixel format, how can Xv require less memory bandwidth? they both have to send the same amount of data down | 19:16 |
| * lardman can't type again, time to go home I think | 19:16 | |
| Proteous | heh | 19:17 |
| woodong50 | if it exist online game, i wanna know the name of game | 19:17 |
| lardman | jagernot: Xv can use yuv at lower bits/pixel than SDL | 19:17 |
| Proteous | nethack | 19:17 |
| jagernot | lardman: then that is not the same pixel format | 19:18 |
| lardman | jagernot: ah, missed that bit | 19:18 |
| lardman | jagernot: he probably meant the same pixels, rather than how they are represented | 19:18 |
| woodong50 | ;; | 19:18 |
| lardman | woodong50: and I want a 911 for Christmas | 19:19 |
| lardman | well not really, but you get the idea | 19:19 |
| Proteous | my pixels are represented by a high paid lawyer | 19:19 |
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| woodong50 | 911? | 19:19 |
| pupnik | yes, is possible woodong50. | 19:19 |
| jagernot | lardman: hmm not sure.. u can send X * Y pixels of 1 bit resoution will take 24 times less the bandwidth of 24-bit color pixel that SDL sends..faster yes..but the image will have only 2 colors | 19:20 |
| pupnik | though i wouldn't want to advertise any particular game at this time | 19:20 |
| lardman | jagernot: indeed | 19:20 |
| jagernot | well we dont have lcuk now to clarify for us :D | 19:20 |
| jagernot | lardman: tell me about ur dsp work | 19:21 |
| woodong50 | pupnik : ok | 19:21 |
| jagernot | i would like to make use of the dsp in my code | 19:21 |
| lardman | jagernot: but yuv at 12bpp is less than yuv at 16bpp which is less than rgb at 24bpp and all probably look much the same | 19:21 |
| lardman | jagernot: what do you want to do with it? | 19:21 |
| l7 | Proteous: with a bt keyboard | 19:21 |
| * lardman remembers to finish HowTo | 19:21 | |
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| jagernot | lardman: im working on an audio synth (http://garage.maemo.org/projects/boxar) | 19:22 |
| jagernot | lardman: you tried that? :) | 19:22 |
| lardman | no I've not | 19:23 |
| jagernot | 12bpp = 8 reds, 8 green, 8 blue; 16 bpp - 32 reds, 32 green, 32 blue; 24 bpp: 256 red, 256 green and 256 blue | 19:23 |
| lardman | what would you want to use the dsp for then? Is it worth the hassle? | 19:23 |
| lardman | jagernot: yuv is not rgb of course | 19:24 |
| jagernot | how to get started | 19:24 |
| jagernot | lardman: oops | 19:24 |
| lardman | jagernot: re dsp, what do you want to do with it though? | 19:25 |
| jagernot | lardman: actually i dont know..thought if i knew how to program it, i could use it somehow in my synth.. | 19:25 |
| lardman | jagernot: well decide what you need to do on it first, you have effectively a computerised piano? I can't see how the DSP will help you there | 19:26 |
| jagernot | im thinking of designing filters | 19:26 |
| jagernot | fx processors | 19:27 |
| lardman | ah ok, well in that case it might be of use | 19:27 |
| jagernot | based on bezier waveforms ive developed in this project (http://code.google.com/p/din) | 19:27 |
| Meiz_n810 | jagernot: THIS IS AWESOME! =P | 19:27 |
| lardman | jagernot: would you send it frames of data then and expect processed frames back? | 19:27 |
| Meiz_n810 | I don't remember when i have had so much fun with my tablet than now with your boxar :) | 19:28 |
| jagernot | thank you Meiz | 19:28 |
| jagernot | did you download the latest release or r u speaking from fond memory ;) | 19:28 |
| jagernot | lardman: yes | 19:29 |
| lardman | jagernot: am heading home now, let me know how you'd structure your filtering and I'll show you some code | 19:29 |
| lardman | will be back online in a while | 19:29 |
| lardman | cu all later | 19:29 |
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| jagernot | bye lardman...just show me the code lardman..:) | 19:29 |
| Meiz_n810 | jagernot: just downloaded the one from garage | 19:30 |
| jagernot | nice | 19:30 |
| jagernot | ive added pulse width modulation | 19:30 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: that clip is kinda scary when he says it's at 300mhz | 19:30 |
| jagernot | to give a twang | 19:30 |
| jagernot | to the sound | 19:30 |
| lardman|gone | jagernot: look at the maemo-dev archives | 19:32 |
| lardman|gone | http://people.bath.ac.uk/enpsgp/nokia770/dsp/ | 19:32 |
| lardman|gone | bbl | 19:32 |
| jagernot | nice | 19:32 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, is that the GPU or the ARM? | 19:34 |
| lardman|gone | jagernot: some of that may be out of date/unpolished | 19:34 |
| lardman|gone | jagernot: really am going now :) | 19:34 |
| jagernot | thx lardman. c u soon. | 19:35 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: that's a good question | 19:35 |
| SHADOW__X | my browser keeps hanging on updating and then crashing running it from xterm doesnt display any messages any suggestions | 19:37 |
| SHADOW__X | ? | 19:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, 300MHz for the GPU sounds about right. | 19:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | 300MHz for the ARM isn't all that exciting. | 19:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | I mean, the Tegra gets away with a shitty ARM11. | 19:39 |
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| SHADOW__X | can someone help me with my n810 problem? | 19:41 |
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| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: what would you like to see a community OS contain btw? i listed -some- but that's just stuff i would be interested in | 19:57 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, most of my interests are on the osv-c page. | 20:04 |
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| Stskeeps | what url was it again? | 20:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_Community_distribution | 20:06 |
| Stskeeps | ta | 20:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, basically, all of those cool community hacks and replacements. | 20:07 |
| Stskeeps | it is the idea that skype should be installable though, right? | 20:08 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Well, if feasible. | 20:08 |
| Stskeeps | like, ability to install skype in HAM, fork | 20:08 |
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| Stskeeps | k | 20:08 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Get qwerty12 to troll bugzilla for WONTFIXed Diablo bugs with patches. | 20:10 |
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| hahlobit | Stskeeps: why deblet doesn't have own kernel? ain't debians usually have own patches and such? | 20:11 |
| Stskeeps | reason number one.. cx3110x back in the days, two, if it aint broke why fix? :P | 20:11 |
| Stskeeps | noone stops you from making your own kernel though | 20:12 |
| Stskeeps | also, replacing the kernel in flash is a bit drastic step for deblet installation | 20:12 |
| hahlobit | omap sources are available? | 20:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | linux-omap, yes. | 20:13 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, of course the kernel source is avail | 20:13 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:13 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Newer versions don't totally support the N8x0, though. | 20:13 |
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| hahlobit | ok might look in to it just for fun | 20:14 |
| GeneralAntilles | The stc45xx mailing list might be a good place to start. | 20:14 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Or harass AStorm. | 20:14 |
| hahlobit | ok thanks | 20:15 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: another fun development, mesh patch for stlc45xx | 20:15 |
| Stskeeps | .. since you asked about community news | 20:15 |
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| Stskeeps | or atleast some work being done | 20:18 |
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| hahlobit | Stskeeps: does deblet has diffrent mac than maemo? | 20:21 |
| Meiz_n810 | wlan mac? | 20:21 |
| Meiz_n810 | i don't think so... | 20:21 |
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| hahlobit | yes wlan | 20:22 |
| Stskeeps | hahlobit: .. no, it uses same wlan-cal method as maemo | 20:22 |
| Stskeeps | atleast it should | 20:22 |
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| hahlobit | ok some reason router sees it diffrent device | 20:23 |
| Stskeeps | it is entirely possible i guess | 20:23 |
| qwerty12 | hahlobit, hostname is not the same as the mac address. | 20:24 |
| qwerty12 | If that is what you are basing your results on | 20:24 |
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| hahlobit | no maemo always got one ip no hostname deblet got entirely diffrent ip | 20:25 |
| Stskeeps | hahlobit: do you use deblet bootmenu? | 20:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, yeah, I saw it. | 20:26 |
| hahlobit | yes i think so | 20:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Wait until the driver's a little more mature to talk about it. | 20:26 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, true | 20:26 |
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| * lcuk will have to stop leaving vnc running in daytime | 20:28 | |
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| Stskeeps | mm? | 20:29 |
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| pupnik | do we have webcam with motion sensor software for ITOS? | 20:39 |
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| lcuk | not sure pupnik, but wouldnt the snow cause hell with it | 20:39 |
| pupnik | maybe | 20:40 |
| * pupnik wants an n800 doorbell | 20:40 | |
| lcuk | how often would you replace it after the locals nick them? | 20:40 |
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| pupnik | would have to build a mount for it | 20:41 |
| qwerty12_N800 | with a taser for knobs selling at the doorstep | 20:42 |
| l7 | how would you insulate it from heat and cold? | 20:42 |
| lcuk | heh, i sense a few flaws with this :D | 20:43 |
| lcuk | l7, its designed by nokia | 20:44 |
| lcuk | cold is not an issue | 20:44 |
| lcuk | i would expect.. | 20:44 |
| pupnik | rarely gets to 0 deg celsius here | 20:45 |
| qwerty12_N800 | My N800 is made in Finland, I'd be surprised if it was an issue :P | 20:45 |
| l7 | how about condensation inside the unit? | 20:45 |
| lcuk | wow!!! the new sensor for the n900 looks wicked http://pan-starrs.ifa.hawaii.edu/public/ | 20:45 |
| l7 | or precipitation? | 20:45 |
| lcuk | http://pan-starrs.ifa.hawaii.edu/public/design-features/cameras.html | 20:46 |
| l7 | of course, maybe you live somewhere with nice weather | 20:46 |
| lcuk | that link i meant damn | 20:46 |
| lcuk | pupnik, so what are you thinking, screen off until someone is detected | 20:47 |
| lcuk | or leave an active display showing housenumber | 20:47 |
| * lcuk stops worrying about inpracticalities | 20:48 | |
| lcuk | l7, assume its in a porch, what would the most kick ass nokia doorbell be | 20:48 |
| l7 | heh | 20:49 |
| lcuk | internet connectivity whilst waiting for an answer? games? | 20:49 |
| l7 | yeah, i guess you can impress your guests | 20:49 |
| lcuk | maybe irc chan | 20:49 |
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| l7 | yeah that would be neat if someone visited while you were away | 20:49 |
| lcuk | kinetic scrolling "hilst you were out" sketches | 20:49 |
| lcuk | w | 20:49 |
| l7 | sorry, i'm afh, away from house :) | 20:49 |
| lcuk | you could even technically make it into a password entry screen | 20:50 |
| l7 | neighborhood kids might be tempted to mess with it | 20:50 |
| lcuk | detects bluetooth of your personal phone and shows keypad | 20:50 |
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| lcuk | heh, show maps with a big "You are here" | 20:50 |
| l7 | i dunno if i'd want to implement password entry into my house | 20:51 |
| lcuk | house news :D on the rss feed | 20:51 |
| l7 | lol | 20:51 |
| lcuk | daily stats of arrivals and departures with pictures | 20:51 |
| l7 | okay, now that's kinda creepy | 20:51 |
| lcuk | theres actually quite a lot of information you could glean by having a nokia doorbell, pupnik, you are the genius | 20:51 |
| l7 | http://revision3.com/systm/rfid | 20:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd like to see somebody sell a peep-hole webcam for less than $150 | 20:52 |
| l7 | you could have an rfid door entry system too | 20:52 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, available arent they | 20:53 |
| l7 | peep-hole webcam is a neat idea | 20:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, they are, but they're expensive. | 20:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Wiring them in kinda sucks ass. | 20:53 |
| lcuk | wireless | 20:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, power. | 20:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://maemo.org/profile/list/ qgil's at a perfect 2-0-0-0 | 20:54 |
| woglinde | hi | 20:54 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hi woglinde | 20:55 |
| lcuk | http://www.pakatak.co.uk/shop/product.asp?strParents=&CAT_ID=&P_ID=145 | 20:55 |
| lcuk | of course gan, but wireless data | 20:55 |
| lcuk | its entirely plausable that you have power nearby | 20:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | At your front door? | 20:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | You could wire it into an overhead light or something I suppose | 20:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | but then you'll need a transformer | 20:56 |
| lcuk | nice! i have 295 | 20:56 |
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| lcuk | and still the fecking thumbs down i gave myself | 20:56 |
| * lcuk hangs his head in shame every bloody time i see that damned icon | 20:57 | |
| lcuk | i should not be able to thuymb myself | 20:57 |
| lcuk | -y | 20:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, the goodnews is that it doesn't yet count for karma. :P | 20:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Did you ever file a bug about that? | 20:57 |
| lcuk | no, you balanced it out by loving me :D | 20:57 |
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| GeneralAntilles | urgh | 20:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm really hungry, apparently. | 20:59 |
| lcuk | http://www.qps-inc.com/Merchant2/merchant.mvc?Screen=PROD&Product_Code=QSWSSB&Category_Code=QCSWLS | 20:59 |
| lcuk | wireless WITH BATTERY! and it lasts upto 6 months (depending on number of visitors probably | 21:00 |
| woglinde | go eat some noodles | 21:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, needs to connect to a computer. | 21:00 |
| lcuk | not the one i just linked | 21:00 |
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| GeneralAntilles | and why some hot chick with a borrowed baby would be posing at your front door is beyond me. | 21:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, no, one of the prerequisites is: must connect to a computer. | 21:00 |
| lcuk | send another one of your minions out and find one then :P | 21:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | lol | 21:02 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I didn't send anybody, you just want to prove that the thing I want exists. :P | 21:02 |
| Stskeeps | wb lrcg | 21:02 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, they dont exist | 21:03 |
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| lcuk | i couldnt find one at all, its not possible to get a cheap wifi camera | 21:03 |
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| lcuk | heh, my jaiku sig has changed | 21:06 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | Ha, re the midgard toolbar, I can't even see it in 36-5's microb | 21:10 |
| lcuk | qwerty, is my sig any better in jaiku? | 21:11 |
| qwerty12_N800 | what sig? :) | 21:11 |
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| lcuk | avatar thing | 21:13 |
| sjgadsby | I like it, lcuk. | 21:14 |
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| lcuk | heh, it looks even worse in friendview | 21:14 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, ahh it looks good in jaiku | 21:14 |
| lcuk | ill try the zoomed in one ;) | 21:14 |
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| lcuk | eugh! friendview pulverizes it | 21:15 |
| lcuk | its got a really awful scaling algo | 21:15 |
| lcuk | but the map is so smooth to update and move around | 21:15 |
| Stskeeps | heh | 21:16 |
| Stskeeps | friendview looks like an idea i had about a year ago | 21:17 |
| * Stskeeps needs to know more investors.. | 21:17 | |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: you just confirmed you're a teen :P | 21:19 |
| Stskeeps | (jaiku message) | 21:19 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps, character limit :P | 21:19 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: character limit is to make it brief ;) | 21:20 |
| Stskeeps | :> | 21:20 |
| * Stskeeps sips his coffee | 21:20 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | I'm long & boring with my sentences :P | 21:20 |
| Stskeeps | i have to fight with the character limit too but when microdocumenting it actually is a benefit | 21:21 |
| lcuk | lol Stskeeps at least he hasnt found "that" thread yet | 21:21 |
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| GeneralAntilles | 2 upd8 | 21:22 |
| Stskeeps | yes.. :P | 21:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm betting "upd8" hasn't been used very much by txtrs. :P | 21:22 |
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| Stskeeps | it's the new kind of dating | 21:22 |
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| mikkov_ | fiferboy: it looks like that after all libboost-serialization does not build for i386 target :( | 21:22 |
| qwerty12_N800 | GeneralAntilles, :P | 21:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12, bringing txt-spk to Linux. | 21:23 |
| fiferboy | mikkov_: But it builds for arm? | 21:23 |
| woglinde | mikkov_ which boost versiob? | 21:23 |
| * lcuk uwell with filename limits existing before mobile phones i think its already been there | 21:23 | |
| lcuk | ballsack | 21:23 |
| lcuk | - /me u | 21:23 |
| * Stskeeps gets annoyed when he hits the 3 messsage limit on his sony-ericsson | 21:23 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps, what model? | 21:24 |
| mikkov_ | https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/boost_1.34.1-14maemo3/ | 21:24 |
| lcuk | christ, what kinda of stuff do you write? are you a girl in disguise? | 21:24 |
| lcuk | normally messages consit of "beers, red lion, 8pm" | 21:24 |
| fiferboy | woglinde: 1.34.1 | 21:24 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: k610i | 21:24 |
| woglinde | try newer one | 21:24 |
| woglinde | 1.36 is out | 21:25 |
| mikkov_ | maybe I will | 21:25 |
| fiferboy | Is there a debian package for it? | 21:25 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: i complicate things for no good reason, that kind of person :P | 21:25 |
| lcuk | yes, normally you would have boobs and a handbag | 21:25 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps, skeen, I only know my shit for db20[10/12] varients | 21:25 |
| woglinde | apt-cache show libboost1.36-dev | 21:26 |
| woglinde | from unstable | 21:26 |
| * Stskeeps thought boost wasn't ported yet | 21:26 | |
| fiferboy | http://packages.debian.org/source/sid/boost1.36 | 21:26 |
| Stskeeps | (as in, ported to maemo) | 21:26 |
| fiferboy | mikkov_: What did you change to get 1.34 to build? | 21:27 |
| * lcuk wants to get working on c++ | 21:27 | |
| * Stskeeps is waiting for armel builder to finish up | 21:27 | |
| Stskeeps | so need someone to investigate using sb2 | 21:27 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:27 |
| Stskeeps | or atleast put up a distcc possibility | 21:28 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps, sb2 can burn | 21:28 |
| mikkov_ | fiferboy, actually I didn't change anything ;) | 21:28 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: sb2 isn't a bad idea but it's not stable enough yet | 21:28 |
| Stskeeps | or documented | 21:28 |
| fiferboy | I wonder why I had so much trouble building it then. | 21:28 |
| fiferboy | You said something about the toolhain? | 21:28 |
| woglinde | Stskeeps we have boost in oe | 21:28 |
| mikkov_ | maybe I fixed one thing from rules | 21:28 |
| woglinde | needed for wesnoth | 21:28 |
| Stskeeps | woglinde: oe != maemo | 21:28 |
| mikkov_ | I try 1.36 | 21:29 |
| mikkov_ | clearly there is something with the toolchain if it builds for arm but not for i386 | 21:30 |
| mikkov_ | I tested locally with arm and thought that it worked | 21:30 |
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| woglinde | Stskeeps but in oe we have for more arches | 21:32 |
| woglinde | including arm | 21:32 |
| suihkulokki | fedora, ubuntu, suse, debian, gentoo, foo and bar distros also successfully compile boost | 21:34 |
| suihkulokki | but it is an quite a testcase to the stability of the compiler | 21:34 |
| woglinde | suihkulokki crosscompiling | 21:34 |
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| fiferboy | The problem is if we want a package in extras that depends on boost, boost needs to be in extras | 21:43 |
| fiferboy | I have compiled wesnoth for maemo against debian arm boost, kde for maemo boost, and mikkov's boost successfully | 21:44 |
| fiferboy | But I can't put wesnoth in extras unless boost is in extras, so having the autobuilder build a version is important | 21:44 |
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| pupnik | thanks fiferboy - | 21:47 |
| pupnik | keep it up | 21:47 |
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| fiferboy | It's not quite ready yet, but 1.4.5 is quite playable on my n810 | 21:47 |
| qwerty12_N800 | fiferboy, Us N800 users in luck? :) | 21:47 |
| fiferboy | Running diablo, I would say so. The only limitation will likely be the lack of keyboard. | 21:48 |
| fiferboy | SDL input widgets will no use hildon-input-method | 21:48 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | xkbd | 21:48 |
| qwerty12_N800 | ftw rather | 21:48 |
| fiferboy | This could be inconvenient for saving games (using a non default name) and network games | 21:49 |
| fiferboy | Having only an n810 I haven't used xkbd, but I would think it will work fine in this situation | 21:49 |
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| pupnik | i think xkbd is still hosed isn't it | 21:50 |
| pupnik | or did somebody fix it | 21:50 |
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| fiferboy | I should mention Glen Ditchfield did a lot of the leg work with his 1.2.8 patches, but I thought it was time for a new version | 21:51 |
| qwerty12_N800 | pupnik, addison did a layout that doesn't send xkbd into oblivion after a few presses. kotczarny also fixed xvkbd quite nicely too | 21:52 |
| pupnik | cool | 21:52 |
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| GAN800 | lulz Addison. . . . | 21:55 |
| qwerty12_N800 | heh, I remember :( | 21:56 |
| GAN800 | The guy that blew up and left when I told him to stop harassing me everytime he came in the channel. | 21:56 |
| GAN800 | Reality check, please! | 21:56 |
| fiferboy | Does anyone where (if anywhere) the svn for hildon-application-manager is? | 21:59 |
| RST38h | GAN <-- killed Addison | 21:59 |
| qwerty12_N800 | fiferboy, garage but fremantle stuff is done in git now afaik | 21:59 |
| fiferboy | stage.maemo.org isn't used anymore? | 22:00 |
| qwerty12_N800 | not for h-a-m | 22:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, hehe, apparently he couldn't take what he dished. | 22:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, mvo's tool-whoring. | 22:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://gitorious.org/projects/hildon-application-manager | 22:01 |
| lcuk | h-a-m "we ain't bacon" | 22:01 |
| fiferboy | GeneralAntilles: Thanks. | 22:02 |
| fiferboy | I assumed h-a-m was a core application. Is that not true? | 22:02 |
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| GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, what do you mean by "core"? | 22:02 |
| lcuk | default | 22:02 |
| fiferboy | Integrally tied to the maemo environment | 22:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | More or less | 22:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Its Hildon's package manager, soooo. | 22:03 |
| Stskeeps | or a package manager made for the maemo platform.. depending on perspective | 22:03 |
| fiferboy | That's what I figured. But it isn't in stage with the rest of hildon | 22:04 |
| fiferboy | Just seemed a bit strange to me looking for it. | 22:04 |
| Stskeeps | not all of open source maemo is in stage though | 22:04 |
| Stskeeps | (sadly) | 22:04 |
| Stskeeps | but in repository.maemo.org/pool for instance | 22:05 |
| fiferboy | Makes it a bit hard to find stuff | 22:05 |
| fiferboy | Stskeeps: Yeah, I saw it in the "free" section, so assumed the source was somewhere | 22:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Things may be synced up again after the SDK is out. | 22:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which h-a-m will be included in. | 22:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mildly interesting: http://gitorious.org/projects/hildon-application-manager/repos/mainline/blobs/master/FUTURE | 22:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | * Update the notification plugin for the new hildon status menu in hildon-desktop | 22:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | In particular | 22:07 |
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| Stskeeps | hmm :P | 22:07 |
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| fiferboy | Okay, next question: does anyone know why git has 143 commands!? | 22:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Because it's all cool and distributed? | 22:08 |
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| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: what's the goal of maemo.org btw? a community that runs itself, supported by nokia, dealing with the maemo platform? | 22:09 |
| qwerty12_N800 | CVS FTW | 22:09 |
| * Stskeeps isn't sure really | 22:09 | |
| GeneralAntilles | It's the home of the Maemo Community run by the Maemo Community | 22:10 |
| fiferboy | qwerty12_N800: I think I remember some projects using CVS in the distant past :p | 22:10 |
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| derf | RCS pnwz your socks. | 22:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Eventually we'll get to the point will Nokia will hand us a budget and we'll dole out resources as we see fit. | 22:10 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: .. and the purpose of maemo community? ;) | 22:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/will/where/ | 22:10 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: Eventually we'll get to the point where Nokia will hand us a budget and we'll dole out resources as we see fit. | 22:10 |
| Stskeeps | well, i guess they are already with the people working for maemo.org | 22:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Basically, anybody using, developing for or working on Maemo who doesn't fit the bill of either "plain user" (maemo.nokia.com) or commercial developer (forum.nokia.com). | 22:11 |
| * qwerty12_N800 is a bellend, no wonder I couldn't see midgard's toolbar with JS disabled | 22:12 | |
| GeneralAntilles | The home of non-endorsed anarchy for Maemo. ;) | 22:12 |
| Stskeeps | ah :P | 22:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | I really like the direction h-a-m is heading wrt user-visible and user-invisble packages | 22:14 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I think most of the complaining about it comes not because it's a bad plan, but simply that the implementation isn't done. | 22:14 |
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| * Stskeeps noticed the "one big OS package" thing | 22:18 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, oh, also, DEs should be easily swappable. | 22:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Coordinate with penguinbait on that one. ;) | 22:19 |
| Stskeeps | does this mean i have to bash my head against my table every day? :P | 22:19 |
| Stskeeps | and yes, ofcourse DEs should be swappable | 22:20 |
| Stskeeps | there'll be a framework for that i guess, like on traditional desktops | 22:20 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Woo http://gitorious.org/projects/hildon-application-manager/repos/mainline/blobs/master/UI | 22:21 |
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| fiferboy | GeneralAntilles: But hopefully in Fremantle, every application we need will be in extras, right? ;) | 22:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somebody should hack at this to prettify the details dialog: http://gitorious.org/projects/hildon-application-manager/repos/mainline/blobs/master/src%2Fdetails.cc :P | 22:23 |
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| GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, that provides you with a way of differentiating between Extras and Extras-devel in the UI | 22:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | or between Extras and a Nokia repository. | 22:23 |
| lcuk | i would prefer for extras-devel to be something slightly different | 22:23 |
| qwerty12_N800 | GeneralAntilles, fremantle uses a totally different method to store catalogues :( | 22:24 |
| fiferboy | True, but I would hope the average user is installing most things out of extras | 22:24 |
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| lcuk | to attempt to reduce the conflicts and problems of a total upgrade of repo to the unstable, wouldnt it be better to simply highlight a single app and say i want this app from -devel | 22:24 |
| qwerty12_N800 | s/fremantle/h-a-m in fremantle | 22:24 |
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| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N800, how do you mean? | 22:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | I know he changed up the storage of the default catalogs so that OS upgrades don't nuke Extras. | 22:25 |
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| Ro9u3oR | where can i find the download for usb connectivity, any one know? | 22:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, giant can o' worms warning. | 22:26 |
| qwerty12_N800 | GeneralAntilles, The old system has been replaced, I think with some sort of xml type files,when i did a dirty backport of the fremantle branch, it wouldn't show any of my catalogues. | 22:26 |
| lcuk | worse by opening for all | 22:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | An opt-out option for upgrades would be a nice addition, though. | 22:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Apple's software update has it. | 22:27 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Yeah, currently, it has to be done being root and the command line :( | 22:27 |
| lcuk | -devel is bad for lots of reasons - i am usually there because i want to test a specific app | 22:28 |
| lcuk | but theres lots of apps there | 22:28 |
| Stskeeps | grr.. ok, wasn't there someone who had a screenshot of easy debian/ubuntu where the hildon apps like wifi applet etc showed notices and such? | 22:29 |
| lcuk | best to try to minimize use of the test one - and if installing from the later -devel version i should have to indicate which i want to be testing | 22:29 |
| Stskeeps | that was an example of mixing DEs | 22:29 |
| fiferboy | I had someone rate one of my (stable) applications badly because they had extras-devel on and got a flacky experimental version | 22:29 |
| lcuk | yes fifer, similar issue | 22:29 |
| lcuk | but you know yourself, some of your primary testers will be using that one | 22:29 |
| lcuk | they should have explicitely said "i want this from -devel" | 22:30 |
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| fiferboy | Yes, this person shouldn't have had -devel enabled and had no way of knowing he upgrade to an unstable version. | 22:30 |
| fiferboy | I emailed him after and got him to disable the repo, but I shouldn't have had to do that. | 22:31 |
| lcuk | but he mustv been told by someone to test their app (for instance i couldv asked them to test liqbase from -devel) | 22:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | I wonder if color-coding would be useful. | 22:31 |
| lcuk | what i suggest would prevent the issue because | 22:31 |
| lcuk | it might do gan, but prevent instant upgrade if its from -devel, and if a version is available in -devel AND normal it offers the normal | 22:32 |
| fiferboy | lcuk: I agree. Turning one -devel to test one app can lead to a lot of apps being updated | 22:32 |
| lcuk | with a "use the -devel version of this specific app" | 22:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, do you want to start the -developers thread or should I? | 22:32 |
| fiferboy | s/one/on | 22:32 |
| lcuk | it does seem like a reasonable suggestion | 22:33 |
| lcuk | ill do it gan | 22:33 |
| lcuk | ill just see fi i can knock something up | 22:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, just don't come out of the gate with a hard-and-fast plan, I'd like to see what other people might think up. | 22:33 |
| lcuk | infact, the wiki might be best | 22:33 |
| lcuk | agreed | 22:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Start the discussion, then move the results onto the improving application manager page. | 22:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N800, do regular distros have a method of handling anything like this? | 22:34 |
| qwerty12_N800 | GeneralAntilles, No idea sorry, I don't really mess around with repos on the desktop | 22:35 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Who else wishes they could be doing this? http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/89/STS-116_spacewalk_1.jpg | 22:37 |
| lcuk | yeah | 22:37 |
| * lcuk wouldnt drop a bag either | 22:37 | |
| lcuk | $100,000 toolbag | 22:37 |
| * lcuk facepalms | 22:37 | |
| fiferboy | Looks like nice weather up there | 22:38 |
| lcuk | that bag is luckier than me :( and its destined to burn up | 22:38 |
| lcuk | any idea where they are over | 22:38 |
| fiferboy | No, I was going to say I could see my house, but I can't. | 22:38 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I'd like to see things without an atmosphere getting in the way and making them all dull and fuzzy. | 22:39 |
| lcuk | you can do that with a lawmchair and some balloons | 22:39 |
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| GeneralAntilles | By definition, no, actually. . . . | 22:40 |
| mikkov_ | somethin like apt pinning is what we need for application manager http://wiki.debian.org/AptPinning | 22:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Right | 22:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | mikkov_, I'm thinking having a menu option along the lines of "hide selected update" | 22:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | So you wouldn't see the update until the next one is pushed. | 22:41 |
| qwerty12_N800 | A way of hiding the update applet without opening app-mgr would be nice too, but not critical I guess | 22:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N800, file a request? | 22:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maybe "Ignore updates" | 22:42 |
| mikkov_ | I was thinking that updates from -devel are hidden, unless you look for them in some menu or other gui widget | 22:43 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | GeneralAntilles, I have a feeling it will be a wontfix. I'll probably have a go at adding the option to hide the applet myself :\ | 22:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12_N800, well, you never know until you file and get a response in 8-16 months. :P | 22:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Worst that can happen is you wasting 10 minutes of your time | 22:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Besides, I'll vote for it. | 22:44 |
| qwerty12_N800 | true, true :p. I'll file one tomorrow, just uploading screenshots from the tablet's browser has got me tired :P | 22:45 |
| qwerty12_N800 | :) | 22:45 |
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| guysoft422 | um, could i add the debian repositories to my maemo OS? or do they not like each other? | 22:47 |
| Myrtti | are you serious? | 22:47 |
| qwerty12_N800 | You could but then you'd most likely end up with a tablet that needs reflashing | 22:48 |
| RST38h | guysoft: No, you couldn't | 22:48 |
| guysoft422 | RST38h, is it possible to compile stuff from there? | 22:48 |
| guysoft422 | qwerty12_N800, did you try? | 22:49 |
| qwerty12_N800 | guysoft422, I'm not crazy enough to attempt to :) | 22:50 |
| qwerty12_N800 | s/to/it | 22:50 |
| guysoft422 | qwerty12_N800, what about the scratchbox? | 22:50 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Sure, I have one installed on my desktop but I'm not a coder so if something compiles from debian, I guess it compiles | 22:52 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lol, I'm getting tooltips for messages in my inbox on another virtual desktop while I'm composing an email in this one. <_< | 22:56 |
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| Meiz_n810 | It looks like ubuntu-guys have started to compile lxde:s depends for jaunty... | 22:59 |
| l7 | GeneralAntilles: are you running spaces on 10.5? | 22:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | l7, yeah. | 22:59 |
| Stskeeps | Meiz_n810: woo | 22:59 |
| l7 | weird, i thought that would a problem for a dead project like VirtueDesktops | 22:59 |
| l7 | rather than apple's actively supported stuff | 23:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 23:00 |
| guysoft422 | qwerty12_N800, i just thaght, if i could build a script that could compile a package from source,and compile all of its dependencies (thats recursive..) then we could compile tons of stuff.. | 23:03 |
| Stskeeps | .. you'd think so, yeah | 23:03 |
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| fiferboy | Wow, microb-engine from SVN made it so browserd won't start | 23:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, fremantle branch? | 23:10 |
| qwerty12_N800 | fiferboy, happened to me too :(. i think it looks for the files in a different location | 23:10 |
| fiferboy | I don't think so. Did they switch trunk to fremantle? | 23:10 |
| fiferboy | Something about libsqlite3 not finding the browserd file | 23:10 |
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| RST38h | ...research to develop autonomous battlefield robots that would 'behave more ethically in the battlefield than humans... | 23:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Does "ethically" include "following orders"? :P | 23:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | On average, I can't see how that'd be possible without a real AI. | 23:12 |
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| fiferboy | I guess I'll try to sort it out when I get home. | 23:18 |
| fiferboy | Or reflash. | 23:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | fiferboy, the old .deb should be available from the upgrade repo. | 23:19 |
| fiferboy | Hopefully the dozen debs are available. It upgrades libraries and a few components too. | 23:19 |
| fiferboy | But thanks, that'll likely save me a reflash | 23:19 |
| RST38h | General: This has nothing to do with ethics or AI | 23:19 |
| RST38h | General: It has to do with DARPA grants. | 23:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, ah, right, those. | 23:20 |
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| derf | DARPA funds crazy things. No one expects them to actually work. | 23:20 |
| RST38h | Although it is difficult not to appreciate how brazen some of those proposals are | 23:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, you gotta push technology forward with government money somewhere. It might as well be with ethical battlebots. ;) | 23:21 |
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| Khertan_n810 | Hi ! | 23:21 |
| Khertan_n810 | Is there specific things to know about gtkHPaned on Maemo ? | 23:21 |
| RST38h | derf: Either that or blowing up another poor towelheads with expensive military hardware | 23:21 |
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| Khertan_n810 | it s look like my GtkHPaned isn t displayed | 23:22 |
| RST38h | s/poor/bunch of poor/ | 23:22 |
| infobot | RST38h meant: derf: Either that or blowing up another bunch of poor towelheads with expensive military hardware | 23:22 |
| derf | I'd assume this would be a multi-phase program developed over a number of years and with only an experimental, not deployable, product at the end. | 23:23 |
| derf | We'll be blowing up totally different people by then. | 23:23 |
| fiferboy | Quitin time! | 23:24 |
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| Khertan_n810 | what are u talking about ? | 23:25 |
| derf | Your mom. | 23:25 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 23:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | [4:11pm] <RST38h> ...research to develop autonomous battlefield robots that would 'behave more ethically in the battlefield than humans... | 23:25 |
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| lcuk | how many laws? | 23:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | I figure at least 100. | 23:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | Most of them exceptions to the first 4. ;) | 23:26 |
| Khertan_n810 | i don t understand why it s difficult to reproduce soldian intellignecy | 23:27 |
| lcuk | i just had a really great email from someone :D | 23:27 |
| Khertan_n810 | fire before ... | 23:27 |
| Khertan_n810 | try to talk after | 23:27 |
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| RST38bis | just one i hope - KILLL-ALL-HUMANS | 23:28 |
| Khertan_n810 | not difficult ... and require only one voice recorded | 23:28 |
| lcuk | om-nom-nom | 23:28 |
| Khertan_n810 | 'are you dead' ? | 23:28 |
| derf | Khertan_n810: Soldiers have great things like eyes, an object recognition system, tracking algorithms... | 23:28 |
| Khertan_n810 | and in case of any answer fire again | 23:28 |
| Khertan_n810 | derf ... like your mom | 23:28 |
| derf | Khertan_n810: Exactly so. | 23:29 |
| Khertan_n810 | and i dont think it ll be better :) | 23:29 |
| Khertan_n810 | a motion detector sensor should be enought | 23:29 |
| RST38bis | it is cheaper to make soldiers too. | 23:29 |
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| Khertan_n810 | fire before ... | 23:30 |
| derf | I mean, if I had that kind of massively parallel computer that fit in a 700 cubic cm package and used so little power, coupled with 18 years of training time, it _might_ be possible, but it'd still be hard. | 23:30 |
| suihkulokki | common lisp was created for AI research by DARPA | 23:30 |
| Khertan_n810 | RST38bis : true | 23:30 |
| suihkulokki | how scary is that :P | 23:30 |
| l7 | creepy | 23:30 |
| l7 | not really that much scarier than the internet having it's origins in darpanet though | 23:31 |
| RST38bis | darpa by itself is not scary | 23:32 |
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| RST38bis | bunch of fat bastards in dc planning another "democracy" crusade is | 23:33 |
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| * Khertan_n810 is still fighting with this GtkHPaned | 23:36 | |
| Khertan_n810 | ... | 23:36 |
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| cyrus__ | installed fanoush initfs and am trying some of the suggestions http://wiki.maemo.org/Advanced_booting#Boot_messages | 23:39 |
| cyrus__ | however there is only 4 megs on /mnt/initfs and it is fully used | 23:39 |
| cyrus__ | even if I flash and then install fanoush initfs again and it uses up the free space | 23:39 |
| cyrus__ | is there anything I can delete here that i don't need | 23:39 |
| Stskeeps | "only 4 megs"? | 23:40 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: how big was it on chinook again? | 23:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | 2MB | 23:40 |
| qwerty12_N800 | ^ | 23:40 |
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| cyrus__ | Stskeeps - well, shouldn't have said only...but is there a way to clear up some space so I can copy over additional modules? | 23:40 |
| Stskeeps | cyrus__: there's an option in fanoush initfs to remove the testing stuff | 23:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | 1.7MB or so is used by default. | 23:41 |
| Stskeeps | which frees up space | 23:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | This sounds like something else at play to me. . . . | 23:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | I mean, you're sure you mounted it ro, right? | 23:41 |
| cyrus__ | Stskeeps - i did choose to disable the test stuff | 23:41 |
| Khertan_n810 | HPaned isn t display on Maemo ? | 23:42 |
| cyrus__ | GeneralAntilles - well I remounted rw so I could modify | 23:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/ro/rw/ | 23:42 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: I mean, you're sure you mounted it rw, right? | 23:42 |
| cyrus__ | yes I did | 23:43 |
| cyrus__ | it is mounted rw | 23:43 |
| Stskeeps | cyrus__: .. how big a module are you trying to fit? | 23:43 |
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| cyrus__ | 60 k total | 23:45 |
| cyrus__ | I tried to delete the utelnetd file and it said no space left...why would it say that when trying to remove something | 23:45 |
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| * Khertan_n810 ... try to setup a stupid hpaned ... | 23:49 | |
| Khertan_n810 | pfff easier to do it in full python than using glade | 23:49 |
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