IRC log of #maemo for Wednesday, 2008-11-19

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lcuk	my stomach muscles are still achy from weekend :'(	00:08
GeneralAntilles	You're so out of shape. :P	00:09
GeneralAntilles	Go take 15 minutes and stretch	00:09
lcuk	im a geek, out of shape is perfectly healthy condition	00:09
lcuk	you are right though, i should really do more, perhaps with the next super tablet ill make it connect with cybernetic implants to actually force me to get up	00:10
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	00:10
GeneralAntilles	Need one of those muscle stimulators from the Matrix	00:10
lcuk	i had a TENS machine a few years ago	00:10
emma	There really should be a technological solution to waking up in the morning. The alarm clock doesn't really cut it for me.	00:11
lcuk	i might have a go at making another one, but i can only get AC from the wall, it might be a bit more dangerous	00:11
lcuk	emma, same here	00:11
emma	What is a TENS machine?	00:12
emma	maybe like electric shocks to get you up.	00:12
GeneralAntilles	emma, the Jetsons has some fairly decent options. :P	00:12
lcuk	little pads stuck on my back going to a battery pack which delivers controlled shocks	00:12
emma	Or something like in the movies where the bed tilts up and you are in the shower.	00:12
RST38h	Here is how Carman install fails:	00:12
RST38h	Unpacking carman (from .../carman_0.7~beta1-8_all.deb) ...	00:12
RST38h	Errors were encountered while processing:	00:12
RST38h	/var/cache/apt/archives/carmand_0.7~beta1-8_armel.deb	00:12
RST38h	E: Sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returned an error code (1)	00:12
RST38h	Any ideas?	00:12
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GeneralAntilles	emma, Jetsons. :)	00:12
lcuk	emma, alarm clocks have to be random and different	00:12
Stskeeps	RST38h: out of space?	00:12
RST38h	Sts: nope, 40+MB free	00:13
emma	Well an Alarm Clock does it's job. It does wake me up. The problem is getting me out of bed.	00:13
lcuk	my missus woke me once by whispering "why is your computer doing that?"	00:13
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GeneralAntilles	Haha	00:13
lcuk	it doesnt work if you preplan it though	00:13
emma	Maybe something that could induce an overwhelming need to pee.	00:13
Meiz_n810	corrupted archive?	00:14
Stskeeps	lcuk: that'd work with me too..	00:14
lcuk	nahhh emma,	00:14
lcuk	do you snooze your alarm clock?	00:14
emma	I find that on days when I can sleep in, the reason I finally do get out of bed and get going is because I gotta 'go'.	00:14
lcuk	or do you just sleep though it	00:14
emma	Yes, like a dozen times.	00:14
lcuk	theres a great clock which is on a string from the ceiling	00:15
emma	I set it for 4 am and I hit snooze until like 7 am.	00:15
lcuk	everytime you snooze it it goes heigher	00:15
lcuk	eventually you cant reach it	00:15
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emma	I have my alarm clock already on the other side of the room so that I have to get out of bed to go hit the snooze.	00:15
lcuk	i just sleep through the snooze and the neighbours put up with it for 45 minutes	00:15
lcuk	then dive back in bed :D	00:15
emma	yes i hit the snooze then dive back in bed. Exactly.	00:15
emma	I really hate getting up. It hurts me physically. I curse the stars each morning.	00:16
emma	There must be some technological way to force me to just get going.	00:16
lcuk	if i HAVE to get up, ive got crappy macnhester music really loud on computer, alarm clock mobile phone, and 2 nokias - all at once	00:16
GeneralAntilles	Ha	00:16
GeneralAntilles	It's amazing how many times you can run across the room without ever waking up.	00:16
lcuk	emma, its called moving to a different country with sane times for waking up	00:16
emma	exactly.	00:16
lcuk	i am perpectually living in the middle of the atlantic	00:16
emma	I literally hit the snooze probably at least 10 times each morning.	00:16
emma	each time i get back in bed and sleep ten more minutes.	00:17
lcuk	what time do you go to sleep at/wake up at	00:17
emma	I have to leave the house by 7 am in order to avoid paying 35 dollars for a cab. But if I do pay the 35 dollars for a cab, then I can leave the apartment at 7:30. Any later and I'm late for work.	00:18
emma	Such is my inability to really get going in the morning that pretty much I pay 35 dollars 5 times a week.	00:18
lcuk	so what time do you go to bed	00:18
lcuk	(and 7am is ungodly)	00:18
emma	Between Midnight and 2 am usually.	00:18
emma	I have to get up at like 5:30, I have to leave the house at 7 or 7:30.	00:19
lcuk	ok, so if you could get your boss to let you work flexi and start at 10am is that better for you?	00:19
emma	Because I have to work at 8:00	00:19
lcuk	or will it throw you even more - ie start sleeping even later	00:19
emma	No not really I don't have that sort of career.	00:19
lcuk	but if you could, would that help your waking up	00:20
emma	I'm really my own boss but the industry such as it is, you can't keep people waiting.	00:20
lcuk	i have no trouble waking up once i know im late	00:20
emma	I think it might.	00:20
emma	I think part of it is the hours. But part of it is just getting up.	00:20
lcuk	its your body telling you you need more sleep - i bet though no matter what you cant sleep earlier	00:20
emma	probably true.	00:20
emma	I really can't sleep until it's time to crash.	00:21
lcuk	yeah same here	00:21
emma	Ive never really gone to bed until I would collapse if I didn't.	00:21
lcuk	i get very little sleep	00:21
lcuk	but more at weekends :)	00:21
* lcuk hibernates on a 7 day cycle		00:21
emma	The uberman sleep schedule seems interesting to me.	00:22
emma	heard of that?	00:22
lcuk	nope, but google will have, sec	00:22
emma	supposedly it's what ben franklin, and thomas edison did.	00:23
lcuk	ahhh yes, i went through a phase of that years ago	00:23
emma	train your body to go into REM imediately by taking a 20 minute nap every 4 hours.	00:23
RST38h	~curse INDT for writing crufty installation scripts	00:24
infobot	May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, INDT for writing crufty installation scripts !	00:24
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RST38h	Ok, I know why Carman install fails	00:26
lcuk	cos you are a bikeman?	00:26
RST38h	It fails creating subdirs under MyDocs when MyDocs is symlinked to the external memory card	00:27
* RST38h is a walkman mainly		00:27
GeneralAntilles	emma, is that the one Kramer tried on Seinfeld? ;)	00:27
lcuk	bbl (not napping honestly)	00:28
* GeneralAntilles jettisons lcuk out the airlock.		00:30
lcuk	oi	00:30
RST38h	Carman lives!	00:31
emma	GeneralAntilles: I think he might of yes.	00:33
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GeneralAntilles	andre__, ping.	00:38
andre__	GeneralAntilles, pong	00:39
andre__	or peng?	00:39
Stskeeps	wow, that's a rant on m-d	00:39
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* Jaffa mutters at still being at work at 2241.		00:40
GeneralAntilles	Ha . . .	00:40
* Stskeeps passes coffee to Jaffa		00:40
* GeneralAntilles entered 2241 into bugzilla. <_<		00:40
Jaffa	2340 train home. Gets in to my station usually about 20 minutes ahead of schedule (0100, rather than 0120).	00:41
Jaffa	This is the last train home.	00:41
qwerty12-N800	Stskeeps, i've compiled x11vnc fine :/. it's not also entirely hard to convert a package from debhelper 6 to 5 :/	00:41
Stskeeps	mm, and i've had to go from 7 to 6 in ubuntu too	00:41
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jagernot	boxar (my audio synth) update: stereo rhythms and melody warping fx..download: http://www.poojyum.com/boxar_1.0-1_armel.deb comments welcome.	01:55
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l7	hey, does anyone know how to extract the original initfs file from the diablo image and restore it to the tablet?	02:14
GeneralAntilles	~flasher	02:14
infobot	from memory, flasher is http://wiki.maemo.org/Flasher	02:14
disco_stu	l7: you did it a few days ago	02:15
disco_stu	did you get your tablet back to work ?	02:15
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l7	yeah, i don't want to reflash the entire tablet though, just the initfs part	02:16
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l7	disco_stu: not yet, i had to go out of town for a bit so the tablet is still stuck where it is	02:17
disco_stu	l7: the charger was working ?	02:17
l7	still don't know, i am going to call nokia tech support later	02:17
l7	i found out the phones i have don't have the same size charging port	02:18
disco_stu	l7: you can always try with your tongue, remember.. lol	02:18
l7	lol, no thanks	02:18
disco_stu	old phones	02:18
l7	i think i may be able to take the tablet into the nokia store and see if they'll help there	02:18
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l7	hrm, now i wonder whether i should mess around more in telnet mode or just try to reflash	02:36
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disco_stu	infobot: wanna play poker ?	02:54
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ron1n	herro	02:58
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l7	phew, reflashing worked	03:04
l7	i better learn how to clone the system to sd now	03:04
GeneralAntilles	~boot-sd	03:05
infobot	it has been said that boot-sd is https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card	03:05
l7	heh thanks GeneralAntilles	03:05
l7	hmm, it looks like i have full battery	03:05
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l7	so i guess the thing was charging all along	03:06
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l7	now that i put my ear to it, the charger makes a distinctive buzz-click sound	03:07
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l7	the Clone OS to SD Deb!! Boot from SD made EASY thread is a bit odd	03:20
l7	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19639	03:20
l7	why does he recommend different swap partition sizes based on the size of your SDHC card?	03:20
l7	i would think you'd just want to take the optimal amount of swap based on available ram to maximize your tablet's performance	03:21
GeneralAntilles	l7, dunno.	03:21
GeneralAntilles	Just use the wiki page. :P	03:22
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l7	heh ok	03:22
l7	can any old SD or SDHC card be used for booting?	03:22
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GeneralAntilles	Well, assuming it's bigger than 512MB	03:23
GeneralAntilles	Class 6 is more desirable because of the speed.	03:23
l7	hrm, this kind of makes me rethink my SD card buying plans	03:24
l7	it seems like having a few smaller 2 to 4GB SD cards lying around would be handy to hold a backup system	03:25
l7	though i guess i could buy a massive 32GB card and partition it up	03:25
disco_stu	l7: congrats	03:25
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l7	disco_stu: thanks, i was really worrying the thing would brick	03:26
l7	it turned out i had a full battery strangely	03:26
l7	does your charger make a distinct sound by the way?	03:27
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l7	it seems like it will buzz-click when charging and simply buzz at a higher pitch when it's full	03:27
l7	it buzzes at a lower pitch when the device is unplugged	03:28
GeneralAntilles	It's probably failing	03:29
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l7	GeneralAntilles: what makes you say that?	03:32
GeneralAntilles	They usually don't make noises when they're in good shape	03:33
l7	hmm	03:33
l7	i suppose it's possible the charger corrupted some data on my device and caused it the become unbootable	03:34
GeneralAntilles	Unlikely	03:34
lcuk	what buzzes, the psu plug or the nit itself	03:35
l7	then the device becoming unbootable and the possibly failing charger are just a coincidence?	03:35
l7	lcuk: the charger	03:35
lcuk	the noise difference is under load or not, i hear it with electronics all the time	03:35
lcuk	you say you are having a problem with it though	03:35
l7	lcuk: i don't know if it's the charger exactly	03:36
l7	here's the sequence of events:	03:36
lcuk	what is happening	03:36
lcuk	heh	03:36
l7	the device became unbootable at some point and would always get stuck at the end of the booting progress bar	03:37
l7	reflashing fixed it	03:37
l7	now i noticed the charger makes some noise when i put my ear to it	03:37
l7	of course you have to put your ear about 2 inches away to hear it, so maybe it's always been that way	03:38
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l7	it makes a rhymthmic buzz-click when it's charging the tablet	03:38
l7	when charging is done, it will buzz at a high pitch	03:38
GeneralAntilles	Yes, that's bad.	03:38
l7	when the tablet it unplugged, it seems to buzz at a slightly lower pitch	03:38
l7	hmm	03:38
l7	let me listen to my other nokia chargers	03:39
l7	does anyone else's tablet charger buzz?	03:39
lcuk	is that the only problem?	03:39
lcuk	whats your AC voltage and how large is the brick	03:39
lcuk	it should do it to varying degree with all electronics	03:40
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l7	hrm, let me get a ruler	03:41
l7	hey, this is interesting: the charger buzzes when it shares an outlet with my laptop	03:42
lcuk	heh, is it bigger than a std plug	03:42
lcuk	or same size	03:42
l7	but when i plug it into a wall outlet by itself, it does not buzz	03:42
lcuk	i can hear my cellphone charger from across the room	03:42
lcuk	practically no current draw	03:42
l7	it's about 2 and 1/2" inches wide	03:42
l7	3/4 inch tall, 1 1/2" inch deep	03:43
l7	i thought all tablet chargers should look about the same, but maybe with a different plug in europe	03:43
lcuk	where are you?	03:44
l7	in the US	03:44
lcuk	ahh, im in the uk, us plugs are smaller than ours, it would make for a different design	03:44
l7	it's too bad they don't use the same plugs around the world anyway	03:44
lcuk	for other reasons	03:44
l7	weird, why would the UK version get bigger chargers?	03:45
lcuk	have you tried your other chargers	03:45
l7	some kind of EU or UK consumer law maybe?	03:45
l7	let me grab the phone charger	03:45
lcuk	plug form factor can fit charger circuit within it	03:45
lcuk	not larger though than a standard plug, but some chargers (older higher amp) are larger bricks	03:46
SmackPotat	a lot of chargers work both on 120 or 220	03:48
SmackPotat	voles	03:48
l7	re	03:48
SmackPotat	volts	03:49
l7	okay, my phone's charger also makes a high frequency buzz	03:49
lcuk	l7, be thankful you can still hear things, or be upset at the onset of tinnitus	03:49
l7	heh	03:50
lcuk	i can hear every outlet in the room, and often go round switching them off to get some p&q	03:50
lcuk	the worst offender is our knackered old tv, its got a dodgy pot inside which squeels in a different note on different channels	03:51
l7	one of those old picture tube TVs?	03:51
lcuk	heh yeah :)	03:52
l7	those things all make the most annoying whine	03:52
lcuk	well we just confirmed you are sensitive to it	03:52
l7	never seemed to bother my parents, but perhaps it's in a frequency range that old people can't hear	03:52
SmackPotat	can i use a 16gb flash drive with a 770, how about a usb sound card	03:52
l7	usb sound card??	03:53
SmackPotat	ya a $5 one	03:53
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SmackPotat	for imputing from a fm radio	03:53
l7	by attaching it through a usb hub i guess?	03:54
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SmackPotat	i got host mode a female femal plug and a hub	03:54
l7	i don't think i've ever considered such a thing	03:54
GeneralAntilles	SmackPotat, if you have drivers for it. . . .	03:54
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SmackPotat	how does that work i should load the modules from /mt/infs/lib/modules/current	03:56
SmackPotat	?	03:56
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l7	it probably depends on the specs of the sound card	03:56
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l7	it seems unlikely to be that maemo would include many extra drivers, though maybe the deblet would	03:57
SmackPotat	ok	03:57
SmackPotat	ya the files are there but it says file exists(-1) when i try to insmode	03:57
l7	man, i have a slight ear ache after putting my ears up those chargers	03:58
SmackPotat	could they just be placeholders	03:58
SmackPotat	lol	03:58
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l7	messing with kernel modules is a bit beyond me	04:03
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SmackPotat	me too	04:05
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l7	hrm, i wish the printable version of the wiki pages would be a bit more streamlined	04:08
l7	dropping the ToC would help a lot	04:08
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disco_stu	jjo: arcitelan ?	04:47
disco_stu	guess not	04:48
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Jsn0327	has a2dp been implemented on the n810 yet?	05:24
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GeneralAntilles	Does somebody unfamiliar with the maemo.org development process want to look at this and tell me whether it actually informs you about the process? https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_Sprints	05:50
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disco_stu	GeneralAntilles: i read the doc	05:53
disco_stu	but as im very familiar with scrum	05:53
disco_stu	sounds good	05:53
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, I'm digging up some non-scrum-familiar friends to read through it and tell me whether it help.s	05:54
disco_stu	right	05:54
GeneralAntilles	I wouldn't expect them to suddenly become experts from it	05:55
GeneralAntilles	The bugzilla stuff is probably a bit heavy for newbies	05:55
disco_stu	of course	05:55
GeneralAntilles	but it's not really critical to understanding the overall process.	05:55
GeneralAntilles	This might be a useful link, actually.	05:56
GeneralAntilles	http://www.bugzilla.org/docs/2.18/html/bug_page.html	05:56
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Luria	is it just me or has maemo slowed down since diablo?	07:18
Luria	im going to reflash later tonight, but i haven't really done much to my IT.	07:19
GeneralAntilles	It's just you	07:19
GeneralAntilles	There've been significant optimizations throughout the whole system over the past few months.	07:19
Luria	idk, the memory footprint grows and grows.	07:20
GeneralAntilles	Usually an install doesn't get faster as time progresses and you install more and more stuff.	07:20
Luria	its not like i'm running apache. i haven't added any daemons. well, hopefull the reflash helps.	07:22
zakkm	:)	07:22
Luria	sigh, cant wait for my pandora.	07:22
zakkm	pandora ?	07:23
Luria	still, i like my n810 so much.	07:23
GeneralAntilles	Luria, and the gpx menu launcher? :P	07:23
Luria	zakkm: #openpandora	07:23
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Luria	well, itll be fast :-)	07:24
zakkm	430-MHz TMS320C64x+™ DSP Core	07:24
GeneralAntilles	Luria, fast doesn't mean much without software to go with it. ;)	07:24
GeneralAntilles	zakkm, look up the OMAP3530	07:25
Luria	thats the dsp, not the cpu	07:25
zakkm	oh right	07:25
zakkm	600mhz ;p	07:25
GeneralAntilles	Luria, hopefully there'll be enough progress with Maemo Reconstructed to get it running on the Pandora by the time it ships, though.	07:25
Luria	very similar to the beagle board	07:25
GeneralAntilles	OMAP3 is terrifying	07:25
GeneralAntilles	Luria, same SoC	07:25
zakkm	how much is the pandora?	07:26
GeneralAntilles	$379 or so	07:26
GeneralAntilles	USD	07:26
zakkm	oh expensive	07:26
GeneralAntilles	But there wont be anymore available until the Spring	07:26
Luria	$365 shipped	07:26
zakkm	maemo reconstruct working well?	07:26
Luria	also, 256mb ram	07:26
zakkm	is it worth trying on my nokia ?	07:26
GeneralAntilles	zakkm, it's also the ugliest piece of hardware you've ever seen.	07:26
GeneralAntilles	zakkm, it's not quite usable yet	07:26
zakkm	yeah it does look bad	07:26
GeneralAntilles	It really wont offer you any advantages over regular old Maemo at this point.	07:27
zakkm	it looks like its suppose to be a gaming system	07:27
zakkm	what about speed improvements?	07:27
Luria	that depends.	07:27
zakkm	lower memory usage?	07:27
GeneralAntilles	zakkm, probably more at the moment.	07:27
zakkm	oh	07:27
zakkm	would be nice to have gnome and stuff ;p	07:29
GeneralAntilles	Luria, be warned, the kernel still isn't quite up to speed for OMAP3	07:29
GeneralAntilles	So unless OpenPandora has a shitload of patches waiting in the wings, be prepared to play with your kernel.	07:29
GeneralAntilles	zakkm, GNOME sucks on a 4" screen	07:30
zakkm	yeah lol	07:30
zakkm	i was thinking more resolution than screensize	07:30
GeneralAntilles	You'll have to hit insanely small targets with the stylus.	07:30
zakkm	im a gnome fan for desktop usage	07:30
* Luria wonders how quickly the maemo flash9 is going to get "borrowed" for pandora		07:31
Luria	hulu on the go would be nice.	07:31
Luria	i wish nokia would give us an omap3 IT already	07:31
GeneralAntilles	Luria, I give it about a day.	07:31
GeneralAntilles	I'm surprised it hasn't already, actually.	07:31
GeneralAntilles	Luria, well, OMAP3 has only just hit production silicon this month. . . .	07:31
zakkm	why the rush	07:32
GeneralAntilles	Rush for?	07:33
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zakkm	a OMAP3 IT	07:33
GeneralAntilles	Because OMAP3 is batshit insane.	07:33
zakkm	speed?	07:33
GeneralAntilles	Easily 2-3x the performance of OMAP2	07:33
l7	how long should it take to complete https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card ?	07:34
zakkm	20min?	07:34
l7	i guess i can stay awake that long	07:34
GeneralAntilles	l7, copying over the data is probably the longest part	07:34
GeneralAntilles	about 10 minutes for that	07:34
l7	for the awesomeness of SD booting	07:34
GeneralAntilles	720p decoding whereas we can't even manage manage DVD quality with OMAP2	07:34
Luria	the performance and battery life is outstanding	07:34
* Luria needs to get a beagleboard to tinker		07:34
l7	GeneralAntilles: ah cool	07:35
zakkm	GeneralAntilles: I do 350mb xvid's just fine though	07:35
GeneralAntilles	zakkm, also, a lot of us have been using OMAP2 tablets since January 2007	07:35
GeneralAntilles	It's getting a little long in the tooth.	07:35
zakkm	its not dvd quality but yeah	07:35
zakkm	ah	07:35
* qole suggests a pandora		07:35
zakkm	things are getting faster though ;p	07:35
GeneralAntilles	zakkm, sure, I watch movies and TV shows on my N800 all the time	07:35
GeneralAntilles	But the quality could be better.	07:35
zakkm	i see alot of "newest SSU is faster" on the forums	07:35
l7	i feel it would be useful to have a backup of a vanllia install before i go messing it up by filling it up from extras	07:35
zakkm	but 720p is huge filesize for one	07:35
zakkm	it takes alot of storage space	07:36
Luria	yeah, im on my third tablet.. and it doesnt feel much different from the 770	07:36
zakkm	l7: the install-tools deb is nice :P i used that for cloning	07:36
GeneralAntilles	zakkm, sure, and the screen can't even display most of a 720p image	07:36
GeneralAntilles	The point is mostly to illustrate exactly how insanely powerful the OMAP3 is.	07:36
zakkm	that too ;p	07:36
Luria	since the tablet is all interface and not crunching	07:36
zakkm	its only 800x480 .. bitrate could be higher though i guess	07:36
Luria	feel is important	07:36
GeneralAntilles	Luria, actually, OMAP3 has a higher ceiling for power usage.	07:37
zakkm	also cpu load..	07:37
zakkm	it takes alot of cpu load to do 720p.. battery life will die	07:37
zakkm	;p	07:37
GeneralAntilles	It's just that it can totally switch the CPU off while idle instead of practically switching it off. ;)	07:37
Luria	yeah, looking forward to a hundred hour mp3 player	07:37
l7	zakkm: there's no deb mentioned in https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card do you mean Deblet?	07:38
GeneralAntilles	The fscking massive battery on the Pandora helps, too.	07:38
zakkm	no	07:38
zakkm	install-deb or install-tools	07:38
zakkm	onesec l7	07:38
Luria	yes :-)	07:38
l7	oh, so there's another way to do this	07:38
zakkm	http://tablethacker.com/wp/?p=12	07:38
zakkm	you just install deb.. in maemo ;p and then it does everything for you	07:39
zakkm	copying and stuff, bootloader ;p;	07:39
zakkm	okay so its lazy but yes :)	07:39
Luria	i've been looking for the modern equivalent to a hp200lx for a long time	07:39
zakkm	l7: read that page :P	07:39
Luria	i have hope for pandora	07:39
zakkm	n810 looks alot nicer than the pandora :P	07:39
l7	zakkm: oh this is the weird one that varies your swap size according to SD card dize	07:40
l7	size	07:40
Luria	(not as a pda, but a long life computer in clamshell)	07:40
zakkm	l7: you know how to shrink swap partition dont you? :P	07:40
qole	I'm excited to see the real world reviews of the Pandora.	07:40
l7	still, it sounds neat if it doesn't require any work aside from opening the deb	07:40
zakkm	or even delete and raise the other	07:40
zakkm	it works though and doesnt brick ;p	07:40
l7	zakkm: not really	07:40
zakkm	2gb only made 128mb swap ;p	07:40
GeneralAntilles	qole, I'm exciting to see Karel lose it when he finds out exactly the kind and quality of software he's going to get out of the box.	07:40
zakkm	oh i have 4gb card.. so 256mb swap ;p	07:41
l7	zakkm: oh i mean i guess you can change partition size after it's done	07:41
qole	haha...true	07:41
zakkm	it works though, so whatever :P	07:41
zakkm	its not like swap gets wasted	07:41
GeneralAntilles	More than 128MB of swap is likely to actually reduce performance	07:41
Luria	im ok with an ncurses ui :-)	07:41
qole	all hacker-quality stuff	07:41
GeneralAntilles	I'm not sure why penguinbait thought more swap was a good idea.	07:41
zakkm	whats the swapiness at?	07:41
zakkm	in maemo?	07:41
zakkm	vm.swapiness	07:42
Luria	hows deblet coming along?	07:42
GeneralAntilles	zakkm, 0	07:42
l7	zakkm: is the source for that deb available?	07:42
qole	I don't know anything about Angstrom, I should read up on it	07:42
GeneralAntilles	qole, he's got it good with all of Maemo's UI to bitch about	07:42
zakkm	l7: no idea, i just saw the blog post and installed ;p	07:43
GeneralAntilles	He's gonna get this out of the box with the Pandora: http://archive.gp2x.de/cfiles/screenshots/gmenu2x.png	07:43
l7	heh	07:43
l7	man, i hate it when my browser tries to display a deb file	07:43
Luria	i love how ubuntu dropped power and picked up arm	07:43
Luria	that was very apple of them.	07:43
GeneralAntilles	Luria, well, if you look at the numbers. ;)	07:43
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zakkm	dropped powerpc?	07:44
Luria	s/power/ppc	07:44
zakkm	oh	07:44
* zakkm was wondering what power was ;p		07:44
GeneralAntilles	ARM _is_ the most popular architecture on the planet	07:44
GeneralAntilles	By several orders of magnitude.	07:44
Luria	yes, power pc, not power	07:44
zakkm	no way.. xbox's use ppc :)	07:44
zakkm	know how many people have one :D	07:44
l7	hrm, didn't know that	07:44
GeneralAntilles	l7, all current consoles are PPC, interestingly.	07:45
qole	GeneralAntilles, are you serious about that menu?	07:45
GeneralAntilles	qole, yeah.	07:45
GeneralAntilles	They probably have SOME improvements in store for the Pandora release	07:45
qole	just...wow	07:45
l7	GeneralAntilles: oh yeah, now i remember that the Gamecube was PPC	07:45
GeneralAntilles	but that's what it looked like on the GP32x	07:45
zakkm	the xbox 360 is a tricore powerpc ..	07:45
GeneralAntilles	l7, as is the Wii.	07:45
zakkm	powerpc as a desktop is dead, not the architecture though ;p	07:46
GeneralAntilles	zakkm, it's not nearly as powerful as it sounds	07:46
l7	i'm so out of it, i haven't played with any of the shiny new consoles	07:46
zakkm	i know	07:46
zakkm	but its still popular :P	07:46
GeneralAntilles	very little cache, only one process per core	07:46
zakkm	made it sound like ppc was dead	07:46
zakkm	:P	07:46
GeneralAntilles	Anyway, console sales don't even come close to ARM sales.	07:46
Luria	im thinking of buying an old POWER4 box for shits und giggles	07:46
l7	why do they use PPC on consoles anyway?	07:46
GeneralAntilles	It's a fairly elegant architecture.	07:46
l7	is it that much faster for gaming?	07:47
zakkm	yeah but someone was like apple dropped powerpc, now ubuntu did.. made it seem like it was going dead ;p	07:47
zakkm	its probably stable ;p	07:47
GeneralAntilles	l7, consoles have the advantage of not having to worry about legacy compatibility.	07:47
Luria	thats not what said	07:47
Luria	damn n810 keyboard	07:47
zakkm	hard to emulate :)	07:47
zakkm	lol	07:47
zakkm	:D	07:48
l7	hmm	07:48
GeneralAntilles	The computing world would totally not be using x86 if Intel didn't have so much money behind it and there weren't 30 years of legacy behind it.	07:48
zakkm	x86_64! :D	07:48
l7	that reminds me, the original xbox was x86 based	07:48
l7	i think it was related to the fact that MS wanted to throw something together quickly	07:48
GeneralAntilles	It was basically an off-the-shelf Celeron box.	07:48
GeneralAntilles	Right	07:48
Luria	its not intel's fault	07:49
zakkm	wait, its x86?	07:49
GeneralAntilles	They also lost shitloads of money on it. ;)	07:49
zakkm	wouldnt that make a ncie x86 server then?	07:49
l7	heh	07:49
Luria	they've tried killing x86 twice	07:49
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Luria	and boy did it cost 'em	07:49
l7	that's why so many people like to hack the xbox i guess	07:49
l7	kinda wish i bought one for media center use now	07:49
GeneralAntilles	l7, ebay!	07:50
l7	heh	07:50
GeneralAntilles	They're super cheap these days.	07:50
zakkm	ebay....	07:50
zakkm	junk yards :D	07:50
GeneralAntilles	You can probably get in for about $100-$150 with software hacks.	07:50
Luria	ebay ftw	07:50
GeneralAntilles	and they're fantastic media centers	07:50
l7	that's not bad	07:50
GeneralAntilles	'course, for that price you should be a real Linux hacker and get a Beagle Board. ;)	07:50
l7	maybe upgrade the hard drive and it the other parts should last a long time	07:50
Luria	i got a as/400 for fun... $95 shipped	07:51
l7	ah, Beagle Boards are probably too technical and time consuming for me	07:51
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, that's a project	07:51
GeneralAntilles	The Xbox has fairly mature software and tools.	07:51
zakkm	beagle board is that really small arm motherboard right?	07:51
l7	n800's and my linux box are enough project for me right now :)	07:51
GeneralAntilles	Weekend thing as opposed to every weekend until the Beagle goes up in smoke. ;)	07:51
GeneralAntilles	zakkm, it's a Pandora without the case.	07:52
zakkm	wow its late here ( 12:52AM )	07:52
l7	it's a little ironic how microsoft invented such a nice open source platform	07:52
l7	i think cory doctorow called it taking advantage of some else's failed business model to make a cool project	07:53
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RST38h	~seen handful	08:43
infobot	handful <n=marceloe@200.184.118.132> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 46d 10h 13m 36s ago, saying: 'RST38h: hail! :)'.	08:43
RST38h	heh	08:43
RST38h	~seen etrunko	08:43
infobot	etrunko <n=edulima@200.184.118.132> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 14d 11h 7m 9s ago, saying: ':)'.	08:43
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, #canola is usually a good bet	08:43
RST38h	ah	08:43
GeneralAntilles	Or email. . . .	08:43
GeneralAntilles	But it's 4 in the morning there.	08:43
RST38h	Too bad...Oh well, will come a bit later	08:44
RST38h	'cause I found why Carman installation failed and it is not pretty	08:44
RST38h	when ~MyDocs is symlinked, Carman scripts can't install directories in it	08:45
GeneralAntilles	Sounds like a Nokia bug. :P	08:46
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RST38h	well, if you consider these guys working on Canola/Carman as nokians... =)	08:48
RST38h	Sorry, I used a wrong word - not install, MAKE directories	08:48
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GeneralAntilles	Symlinking MyDocs is just a nasty plan all around.	08:49
RST38h	well, there are no alternatives that I know of	08:50
GeneralAntilles	~boot-sd	08:50
infobot	well, boot-sd is https://wiki.maemo.org/Booting_from_a_flash_card	08:50
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RST38h	No, thanks, as it is way more invasive	08:50
GeneralAntilles	It doesn't break things	08:50
RST38h	until you do an update	08:50
GeneralAntilles	It speeds things up, gives you a bootable backup, and also increases application install space.	08:50
GeneralAntilles	Meh, just reflash the initfs	08:51
GeneralAntilles	Takes 5 minutes.	08:51
RST38h	although yes, it does inscrease app install space	08:51
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RST38h	Anyways, I do not think failure to mkdir stuff in symlinked MyDocs is a system level problem. It is probably some minor glitch in the Carman postinst script	08:52
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, my point was that it's the same bug that Nokia had with the preinstalled documentation postinst that messed up the last round of SSU updates.	08:53
GeneralAntilles	Not that it was a platform issue.	08:53
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hahlobit	when you pull something with wget, filemanager doesn't seem to find it?	08:59
GeneralAntilles	Depends on where you pull it to. . . .	08:59
hahlobit	just opening terminal	09:00
hahlobit	like every other linux	09:00
RST38h	General: Weirdly, the last SSU worked for me	09:01
hahlobit	had to cp it to some Mydocs before it findw	09:01
hahlobit	finds it	09:02
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hahlobit	is there any better filemagers for os2008?	09:06
GeneralAntilles	emelfm2	09:06
GeneralAntilles	xterm	09:06
l7	anyone tried kingston vs transcend microsd cards on their tablets yet?	09:07
l7	there's a bunch of 4gb microsd cards for 9 or 10 bucks on newegg	09:08
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l7	"The thing almost melted in my PC it got so hot. I was using the micro adapter and inserted it into the side of my computer's SD reader when I noticed it wasn't recognizing with Windows. When I tried to take it back out of the PC it nearly seared my fingertips. It also wouldn't work with my new Windows Mobile 6.1 phone."	09:10
l7	scary to imagine this one melting down in a tablet	09:10
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hahlobit	emelfm2 seems better thanks	09:16
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zetheroo1	is there any user-friendly documentation available for getting Maemo Mapper and flite to work together?	09:45
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Stskeeps	http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24606 <- i'm not sure if the second post is spam or an awesome reply :P	10:17
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johnx	Stskeeps, I think it's spam but somehow it's still awesome	10:32
Stskeeps	hehe	10:34
* Stskeeps got a mojo bootstrapped on the beagleboard yesterday		10:37
GeneralAntilles	Oh good lord	10:37
GeneralAntilles	I've got 4 wiki edits queued and the damn server goes down.	10:37
Stskeeps	heh	10:38
Stskeeps	i plan to do a simple solution with a irc bot responding to some commands to grab bzr/svn and compile it, johnx	10:38
Stskeeps	and then have different targets such as x86/armv5el-mojo/armv5el-vfp-mojo, and so on	10:38
Stskeeps	in different chroots with diff parameters	10:38
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Stskeeps	so we'll have a service set up that'll build the various versions for all targets :P	10:45
hahlobit	about using xterm as a file manager, how to send somefile with bluetooth to somedevice?	10:45
tekojo	GeneralAntilles: What wiki down?	10:46
GeneralAntilles	tekojo, it's back up.	10:46
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tekojo	GeneralAntilles: This just proves I am slow :-)	10:46
hahlobit	what about man pages, haven't found them yet?	10:54
GeneralAntilles	Purged	10:54
GeneralAntilles	They're mostly available on maemo.org	10:54
GeneralAntilles	~manpages	10:54
infobot	You can find manpages online at http://www.freebsd.org/cgi/man.cgi . You can find here manpages appropriate for your unix or Linux distribution	10:54
GeneralAntilles	~maemo-man	10:54
infobot	from memory, maemo-man is http://maemo.org/development/documentation/man_pages/	10:54
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hahlobit	ok used to use them in every other unix	10:56
GeneralAntilles	Remember, we're limited on storage space	10:57
GeneralAntilles	Having 20MB of manpages isn't exactly ideal. :)	10:57
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hahlobit	true	10:58
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hahlobit	apps just keep telling rtfm :) don't run as root just make it suid so we can drop priviledges, please read man page!	11:00
GeneralAntilles	Karma still stuck. . . .	11:02
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johnx	Stskeeps, we can also add hooks to bzr I think	11:08
johnx	build on upload or somesuch	11:08
johnx	s/upload/commit/	11:08
infobot	johnx meant: build on commit or somesuch	11:08
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Nah, there is just this code: if (user->username == 'generalantilles') die();	11:08
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, I don't blame you, gotta keep the status quo intact. :D	11:09
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: It still takes at least a day to be sure that the problem isn't fixed by the upgrade.	11:10
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, if it keeps up I'm gonna have to put together one of these https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Bugzilla_report_card that'll read "X-Fade's report card" and fail you in a bunch of made up subjects for a bunch of arbitrary and trivial reasons. :P	11:10
X-Fade	Heh..	11:11
GeneralAntilles	Knitting - he hasn't made maemo.org sweaters as tribute to the Council yet - F-	11:13
johnx	non-zero number of dashes in user name	11:13
Myrtti	knitting? what where?	11:13
GeneralAntilles	~nickometer X-Fade	11:14
infobot	'X-Fade' is 19.000% lame, generalantilles	11:14
Myrtti	if someone makes a knitting pattern software for maemo that saves the patterns in KnitML, I'll make mittens for him/her.	11:14
GeneralAntilles	Nick isn't lame enough - F-	11:14
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Not too bad ;)	11:14
Myrtti	the touch screen in maemo and the usecases would be excellent.	11:14
GeneralAntilles	My sister has a sewing machine that hooks up to a Gameboy for patterns.	11:15
Myrtti	possibly also bake a selection of seven Finnish traditional cookies and send over courier mail	11:15
Myrtti	GeneralAntilles: DS or older?	11:15
GeneralAntilles	The original Advance, I think.	11:15
Myrtti	(please, DS, I have one)	11:15
Myrtti	damnit	11:15
Stskeeps	johnx: also a possibility i guess	11:16
GeneralAntilles	http://pocketgaming.blogspot.com/2007/07/singer-izek-gameboy-controlled-sewing.html	11:16
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Myrtti	again. The touch screen with stylus would make maemo tablets / Nintendo DS a perfect thing for knitting patterns	11:16
Myrtti	I guess I'll have to start lobbing that idea again for the applicants of Finnish Summercode	11:17
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johnx	i've set it up before with svn	11:17
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Stskeeps	johnx: yeah, but bzr is a bit different creature:)	11:23
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johnx	I gathered that. it has to have commit hooks though, right	11:24
Stskeeps	not sure really, but haven't looked that close	11:24
Stskeeps	ok, im off to the bus	11:26
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Meiz_n810	Offical ubuntu midori port seems to work better than mojos one.. Newer version..	11:27
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Meiz_n810	they will soon compile kernel for omap2	11:28
johnx	well that's really fast turnaround time after their announcement	11:31
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Meiz_n810	How can i set priority of repos?	11:55
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Meiz_n810	just add apt.prefrences to apt.conf.d?	11:58
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Guest2113_541	hi	12:09
Guest2113_541	how to get targus mouse to work?	12:10
Guest2113_541	i get it work but in some reasons its works too slooooooow	12:10
Guest2113_541	its normal? 0_0	12:11
Guest2113_541	hello? any buddy?	12:11
Guest2113_541	\quit	12:11
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Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: how do you mean "work better"?	12:30
Meiz_n810	settings dialog works in hildon, and it actually works, mojos midori stalled when i tried last time	12:32
Stskeeps	settings panel work with M-R packages or?	12:36
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johnx	Meiz_n810, set priority in /etc/apt/preferences	12:48
Meiz_n810	thanks	12:50
johnx	there should be an example already :) in fact your probably just want to reverse the current priorities	12:51
Myrtti	O NOES! my long thumb fingernail I've used as a stylus chipped! how can I live now?! oh wait. nvm.	12:52
johnx	start using more thumb friendly software :)	12:52
towo	Oh noes, a Myrtti here.	12:52
Jaffa	Morning, all	12:53
Stskeeps	Myrtti: glue on a stylus tip	12:53
Stskeeps	:P	12:53
Myrtti	how can I irc now with no long thumbnails in either of the hands	12:53
Myrtti	eep.	12:53
* Myrtti huggles towo		12:53
towo	Myrtti: Use a bluetooth keyboard.	12:54
GeneralAntilles	Same way I IRC. . . .	12:54
GeneralAntilles	With the finger keyboard	12:54
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Havaplayer is incoming.	12:54
Myrtti	GeneralAntilles: it's unintuitive for me... I've tried, several times	12:54
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, is it really?	12:54
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GeneralAntilles	I harassed their support again yesterday	12:54
GeneralAntilles	Fast turnaround	12:54
Myrtti	with irssi and lots of channels it's really cumbersome	12:55
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Well, I just sent out the invitation after I got a request.	12:55
GeneralAntilles	I don't think the first request actually went anywhere productive.	12:55
GeneralAntilles	Same thing seemed to happen when I tried going through Boingo's public support channel.	12:55
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: karel : "Angstroem on NAND and Ubuntu for download on SD. VLC Player likely to be preinstalled. Applications available as self-contained ZIP archives. There is now talk of OpenPandora becoming an Ubuntu Partner."	12:56
Stskeeps	how is this any different than maemo? :P	12:56
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, he lives in a delusional world.	12:56
Stskeeps	Maemo on NAND, ubuntu for download on SD, VLC able to be installed, applications as debs, ..	12:56
johnx	maemo on pandora is like the best of all possible worlds	12:57
johnx	in terms of potential software environments for the pandora	12:57
GeneralAntilles	Good lord . . . I believe Netflix on Xbox may very well end me.	12:58
johnx	because of it not working or because of it working?	12:59
GeneralAntilles	Because it's like regular Netflix but without the mailman delay. <_<	12:59
* X-Fade wonders if he should approve a project on garage named 'wtf'.		12:59
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GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, well, what's the description? :D	13:00
X-Fade	he Comicviewer (which is, due to a lack of a better name, named wtf) is/will be a small application to view Comic Book Archives in standard .cbr and .cbz container files, optimized for maemo devices.	13:00
GeneralAntilles	johnx, it works great, actually.	13:00
RST38h	johnx: Blasphemy!	13:00
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: is the latest mer-installer in svn?	13:00
RST38h	johnx: Karel will murder you with an ice pick	13:00
GeneralAntilles	A rusty ice pick	13:00
RST38h	General: That depends on how often he uses his	13:01
johnx	RST38h, heh. just wait, I intend to try and get everyone behind it as the primary development platform too :)	13:01
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, probably often, and it's probably not cleaned between uses.	13:01
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: think so	13:01
X-Fade	So the description isn't offensive :)	13:01
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GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, maybe an intermediate email telling him he can't change it later would be appropriate.	13:01
RST38h	General: He licks it.	13:01
GeneralAntilles	I mean, I could care less if it were called "Fuck all tablets"	13:02
RST38h	johnx: I do suspect you mean the upper level and not the system level?	13:02
GeneralAntilles	But it just isn't a very inspired name. . . .	13:02
RST38h	Comic readers are hardly inspiring...	13:02
johnx	RST38h, right. think m-r :)	13:03
Stskeeps	mer ;)	13:03
Stskeeps	:P	13:03
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, you just haven't seen any good ones yet. :P	13:03
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, I like Mer.	13:03
RST38h	Never needed one, really...	13:03
GeneralAntilles	Maybe talking about Maemo Reconstructed -> m-r -> Mer to make the (well, a) connection for people.	13:04
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, yeah, neither have I come to think of it. . . .	13:04
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RST38h	Golemaemo	13:04
johnx	RST38h, GeneralAntilles spend more time on trains and you'll want a comic reader :P	13:05
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: MAemo Reconstructed => Maer => Mær => bitch, in danish	13:05
Stskeeps	:P	13:05
RST38h	johnx: I spend 3 hours a day in trains and buses	13:05
Stskeeps	:P	13:05
GeneralAntilles	johnx, I'd probably just stick to FBReader and/or 3G stuff like web and IRC.	13:05
johnx	what do you do in that time? O_o	13:05
RST38h	johnx: Just don't understand why a normal text-based book is not sufficient	13:05
RST38h	johnx: Books. Mail. Web. IRC =)	13:06
johnx	ah, those last 3 aren't an option without a reasonable data plan (or a lot more income :P )	13:06
johnx	for me at least	13:06
RST38h	johnx: Remember, it is .RU	13:06
johnx	ok, you'll have to make a better sales pitch to get me to move though :P	13:07
RST38h	johnx: $.15/MB of GPRS traffic	13:07
RST38h	johnx: this is without any special data plan (but with heavy internet usage option added for ~$3/month)	13:08
RST38h	Rather slow though, given that my E70 has no EDGE and MTS has no 3G yet	13:08
johnx	next time I'm up to renew my phone contract I'll look again	13:09
johnx	for now I'm locked in to something with just IRDA or clunky USB for tethering	13:09
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hahlobit	how much that maemo-launcher should eat memory? mine takes 29% must be something wrong	13:29
johnx	sounds right	13:30
hahlobit	that much	13:30
johnx	a lot of stuff is actually running inside the maemo-launcher process	13:30
johnx	desktop applets, plugins, etc	13:30
johnx	also, remember that it's not really "29%"	13:31
johnx	a lot of that are shared libraries that other apps are using as well	13:31
hahlobit	ok thanks	13:31
hahlobit	i try to close it but bounced back on	13:32
johnx	if you actually stopped it your tablet would stop really working	13:32
johnx	until you rebooted of course	13:32
hahlobit	does deblet has it?	13:33
johnx	no actually	13:33
johnx	it's mainly used for saving memory if you're running hildon-desktop, but it's kind of a pain to make it work outside of maemo	13:33
hahlobit	you have more free memory on deblet then?	13:34
johnx	not really. no	13:34
X-Fade	johnx: I think it is more for speeding up application start.	13:34
johnx	but it depends on what desktop you're running	13:34
X-Fade	johnx: As you don't have to load all the libs anymore.	13:35
johnx	X-Fade, ah, ok. must have misremembered	13:35
hahlobit	can we add ram to tablets?	13:36
johnx	hahlobit, no	13:36
hahlobit	ok pity	13:36
johnx	back later	13:36
hahlobit	what about browserd does it have to run all the time?	13:39
GAN800	Speeds up browser startup	13:41
GAN800	and will eventually provide a browser engine for other applications	13:41
GAN800	So will end up saving RAM in the long run	13:41
GAN800	hahlobit, things are the way they are for a reason. :)	13:42
GAN800	Nokia doesn'r just arbitrarily do things to waste RAM.	13:42
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hahlobit	GAN800: ok nokia is more ram friendly then	13:44
suihkulokki	maemo-launcher saves ram and start apps faster. however, as a consequence it makes it look like all the applications running are instances of maemo-launcher	13:45
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hahlobit	so one cannot tune tablets much better?	13:48
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GAN800	Well, you could tune them for a different set of requirements	13:49
GAN800	But Nokia has done a pretty good job of tuning for the 'mobile' use case.	13:49
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hahlobit	ok	13:50
hahlobit	just use to speed up operating systems	13:51
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RST38h	hahlobit: What do you mean by tune?	13:52
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Guysoft42	hey, if i want to develop for maemo, in linux. what toolkits do i need?	14:03
RST38h	Maemo SDK	14:03
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Guysoft42	RST38h, where can i get the sdk?	14:20
disco_stu	~sdk	14:22
infobot	Software Development Kit	14:22
disco_stu	~scratchbox	14:22
infobot	scratchbox is probably a cross-compiling system that uses binfmt_misc, rpc calls, and an nfs mount to make a cross-build appear to be 100% native, and is found at http://www.scratchbox.org/	14:22
zetheroo1	is there any user-friendly documentation available for getting Maemo Mapper and flite to work together?	14:23
johnx	errr...not really though	14:23
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disco_stu	it should work with both installed	14:24
johnx	maemo sdk is here: http://maemo.org/development/sdks/	14:24
johnx	~maemo-sdk	14:24
infobot	hmm... maemo-sdk is the development environment for the Nokia Internet Tablets, found here: http://maemo.org/development/	14:24
johnx	well, and there	14:24
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zetheroo1	disco_stu : got both installed on my N800 and N810 ... and it does not work on either one	14:25
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disco_stu	in maemo-mapper configuration you have to enable flite	14:26
zetheroo1	disco_stu: yep, done that as well in both machines	14:27
zetheroo1	and in both machines flite works in the Terminal	14:27
zetheroo1	I also started a thread in the Maemo Mapper site ... but nobody is answering there either ... :(	14:29
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disco_stu	well.. i cant help you further	14:30
zetheroo1	disco_stu: have you actually got it working yourself?	14:30
disco_stu	no.. no gps	14:31
Guysoft42	oh , another silly question - is there a way to left click in places lice vnc?	14:31
disco_stu	i dont use mapper that much	14:32
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zetheroo1	disco_stu: ok ...	14:35
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Stskeeps	lo meiz	15:32
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Meizirkki	hi	15:33
Meizirkki	just installed mer and x wont start	15:33
Meizirkki	wait, i'll give you pastebin	15:34
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Meizirkki	http://pastebin.com/d43f7add4	15:34
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Stskeeps	ln -s /dev/fb /dev/fb0 :P	15:35
Meizirkki	:)	15:36
Meizirkki	i forgot this time	15:36
* Stskeeps is setting up a build beagleboard		15:36
Stskeeps	(http://beagleboard.org/)	15:36
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johnx	other way around though: ln -s /dev/fb0 /dev/fb :)	15:37
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Meizirkki	=P	15:37
Stskeeps	ah, yeah	15:37
Stskeeps	:P	15:37
johnx	Stskeeps, awesome! so awesome. :D (re: the beagleboard)	15:37
Stskeeps	johnx: we can just switch DEFAULT_DEVICE in omapfb btw :P	15:38
Stskeeps	it's a #define	15:38
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Stskeeps	and establish some kind of branch of the git tree of the driver	15:39
suihkulokki	or you could fix udev =)	15:40
aquatix	ooh, maemo.org is a lot faster!	15:40
aquatix	any idea why the small thumbs in the software section consist of larger physical images though?	15:40
Stskeeps	suihkulokki: i've yet to see a /dev/fb, but that's just me not having enough fb devices :P	15:41
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X-Fade	aquatix: Because we don't have smaller versions.	15:41
suihkulokki	it seems some other distros have it	15:41
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aquatix	X-Fade: heh, fair enough :)	15:41
aquatix	just wondered, as it makes for longer loading times	15:42
X-Fade	aquatix: Yeah, we need to see if we can create the smaller sizes too. Although I'd wait until the new website design is more clear.	15:42
aquatix	ah :)	15:43
aquatix	sounds good	15:43
X-Fade	As maybe we won't need the small ones. Or anoter size.	15:43
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aquatix	yeah, i figure	15:44
aquatix	i just noticed and dumped it here	15:44
aquatix	but now i'm curious to the new design :)	15:44
X-Fade	aquatix: Well, we will have a separate webserver serving all static files soon. So they will even be served faster.	15:45
X-Fade	And you can still influence the new design as there is still a lot of discussion going on for that :)	15:45
aquatix	yay	15:46
aquatix	here or on a forum?	15:46
* aquatix votes for green on black ;)		15:46
Stskeeps	johnx: think i'm making several build types, distcc ones too, etc	15:46
Meizirkki	Hoe to save file in vi text editor?	15:47
Stskeeps	:wq	15:47
Veggen	or, omit the q if you want to continue editing.	15:47
X-Fade	aquatix: -community and https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Improving_maemo.org#Maemo.org_Homepage_refresh	15:49
X-Fade	aquatix: See also design drafts.	15:49
aquatix	check, thanks	15:50
aquatix	great drafts!	15:50
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* aquatix rather likes http://samoff.maemobox.org/maemo_redesign/samoff-variation_of_HOME_03_MOD.png		15:51
aquatix	anyways, back to work	15:52
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Meiz_n810	Offical arm-ubuntu team is close to get gnome-desktop working	16:03
Stskeeps	i guess i should follow #u-a too	16:03
Meiz_n810	:)	16:03
ron1n	is a tablet distro in ubuntu's roadmap?	16:03
Stskeeps	no clue	16:04
Stskeeps	don't think so	16:04
ron1n	hmm	16:04
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Stskeeps	i think maemo will accelerate past it before that really	16:04
johnx	for the nokia n8x0? I'd guess "no" but that's part of my pessimism talking	16:04
Stskeeps	or mer, depending on perspective	16:04
Meiz_n810	they promised to build omap kernel... :)	16:04
ron1n	they do have a MID project, that with an arm port	16:05
johnx	a lot of things use OMAPs :P	16:05
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: yeah, but useless for tablets probably :P	16:05
Meiz_n810	okay	16:05
ron1n	and an omap kernel, this is looking nice and easy	16:05
Stskeeps	ron1n: yeah, but i doubt the power conservation is so good..	16:05
Stskeeps	:P	16:05
ron1n	heh	16:05
ron1n	thats very true	16:05
johnx	eh, they'll have to rework power consumption stuff unless this "always-on" idea was just a fad	16:05
Stskeeps	always-on-when-battery-works	16:06
ron1n	er suspend to disk	16:06
johnx	I'm sure ARM isn't paying them to screw around	16:06
ron1n	i mean, we're talking flash here lol	16:06
Stskeeps	ron1n: life isn't always that easy :P	16:06
johnx	suspend to flash would be a lot slower than suspend to disk actually	16:06
Stskeeps	suspend to ram is better isnt it?	16:07
ron1n	johnx, suspending to a flash swapfile is slower than suspending to a spinning disk?	16:07
johnx	definitely, but it's still not the same as always on	16:07
ron1n	Stskeeps, its faster, but still requires power	16:07
johnx	ron1n, suspending to slow built in flash with a compressed filesystem is slower than suspending to a typical laptop drive	16:07
ron1n	I see	16:07
johnx	suspend to RAM is a fair trade off most of the time	16:07
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johnx	but it's not the same thing as being "always on, always connected"	16:08
ron1n	do we have suspend to ram support in deblet?	16:08
ccooke	johnx: I'd have agreed with that... until I tried the N810.	16:09
johnx	ccooke, hmm?	16:09
ron1n	"always on, always connected" is why I have a desktop =P, a tablet is simply an extension to that in my experience	16:10
Stskeeps	ron1n: we'll definately have it in Mer..	16:10
Stskeeps	:P	16:10
ron1n	awesome =]	16:10
johnx	ron1n, you're not the tarket market then I bet :)	16:10
* Stskeeps ponders where he has enough space to store a repository for Mer		16:10
ccooke	johnx: "< johnx> suspend to RAM is a fair trade off most of the time" - the next line hadn't arrived here yet	16:10
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johnx	it's a fair trade off, but it's not really optimal, I agree	16:11
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* ron1n has become quite reliant on suspend2 for quick book times on x86		16:31
ron1n	boot* =P	16:31
johnx	I just leave all my stuff on	16:31
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X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Karma better now?	16:35
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: so control panel worked without hitch in jaunty? that's weird	16:37
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* aquatix should fix suspending etc on his debian laptop		16:38
aquatix	otoh, it boots quite quickly	16:38
johnx	heh...my only laptop is a P4 with ~10 minutes of battery life on a good day. all the rest of my mobile stuff is ARM :)	16:38
ron1n	johnx, not an option with my lust for old school tablets and gadgets on ebay =P	16:38
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aquatix	johnx: my laptop is constantly running from DC here	16:39
aquatix	as i'm at work anyway	16:39
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps, i meant the midoris "Prefrences" window fits into screen (so it is possible to click Close. With mojos midori, i was unable to save settings)	16:39
Stskeeps	ah	16:39
johnx	hmm, I guess I do leave my zaurus in suspended to RAM most of the time	16:40
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johnx	i'm not making any progress on h-i-m. I'm giving it a break for a day and I'll try python-hildon instead	16:41
Stskeeps	alright	16:41
Stskeeps	i'm setting up repos and build box atm	16:41
johnx	if anyone else wants to step in I will not be offended :)	16:41
Stskeeps	as we'll be getting closer to a reset to get things right	16:41
johnx	hopefully for the most part we can just re-apply our own diffs to get moving	16:42
Stskeeps	yeah	16:42
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Stskeeps	and we'll triple build for all 4-5 targets, so	16:43
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Stskeeps	so we easily can build images	16:43
johnx	mmm...images :)	16:43
johnx	mmm...someone else's machine doing the building :)	16:44
Stskeeps	hehe	16:44
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b1ackdeath	has any one had trouble install Debian chroot tubro on there internal flash?	16:54
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matrx	<Clint> also i have t-bone for tonight	17:02
matrx	misfire	17:02
* aquatix <- instahungry		17:03
johnx	misfiring t-bone? I hear it's a problem	17:03
aquatix	yeah, there was a recall	17:03
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johnx	you just have to check the fuel mixture and spark timing	17:04
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matrx	i just did a reflash to the latest diablo, now i can't clock to 400mhz anymore even though it's listed as an available freq in sysfs, any insight?	17:12
mgedmin	do you have any mp3 playing?	17:13
X-Fade	matrx: Something using the dsp?	17:13
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lardman	~lart Windows device drivers	17:22
* infobot shoots Windows device drivers in his sleep		17:22
matrx	hrmm... nothing should be playing when i try	17:23
matrx	i wonder if something has the device open	17:24
matrx	this didn't happen before the most recent diablo updates	17:24
lardman	matrx: which governor are you using?	17:24
matrx	tried them all	17:25
lardman	so on performance, for example, it's not at 400MHz?	17:25
matrx	i used to be able to use the default ondemand at set max_freq to 400000	17:25
matrx	but performance is locked at 330000 max/min	17:25
lardman	interesting, does sound like dvfs lock caused by the dsp	17:26
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lardman	run "dspdld -p" from the command line somewhere (in another window to your cpufreq stuff as it won't return)	17:26
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matrx	it killed off 3 pids, failed to open /lib/dsp/dsp_dld.conf, and returned	17:28
matrx	which i'm guessing isn't expected behavior	17:28
lardman	ah yeah, sorry you need to symlink from /lib/dsp/dsp_dldavs.conf to /lib/dsp/dsp_dld.conf	17:28
lardman	first name might be slightly wrong, can't remember off the top of my head	17:29
lardman	dsp_dld_avs.conf probably	17:29
matrx	but you're right, as whatever it killed seems to have resumed the clocking to 400mhz	17:29
lardman	then run dspdld -p again	17:29
lardman	well if you have the loader open you should be able to see what was is started running	17:29
lardman	then again perhaps some task just got stuck	17:29
qwerty12	lardman, hi, does the sysfs patch to change op_mode on the fly work for you? I echoed 0 to op_active and pybattery still says it's running at 330. It's tempting to just edit n800-board-dvfs.c and recompile the kernel and be done with it.	17:30
lardman	with that symlink in place, issuing dspdld (no -p) will restart the dsp and reload the conf files, etc.	17:30
lardman	qwerty12: can't change op_mode directly I don't think, need to echo into some sysfs entry (something with dsp in the name)	17:31
qwerty12	lardman, I'm talking about the patch that lets you do that :)	17:31
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lardman	echo 1 > /sys/power/op_dsp	17:33
lardman	echo 0 even	17:33
matrx	i don't see anything new opening on the dsp_dld session, but it seems to cleared whatever was pegging the scaler	17:34
qwerty12	Thanks lardman	17:34
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lardman	matrx: yeah, fair enough, just make sure you re-reun dsp_dld when you quit out of the non-daemonised form	17:34
lardman	qwerty12: np	17:34
lardman	s/dspdld/dsp_dld for all of the above ;)	17:35
matrx	i figured :)	17:36
matrx	i'm going to reboot and see what happens	17:36
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X-Fade	Interesting: http://cia.vc/stats/project/maemo/.message/fb30e6	17:42
matrx	lardman: should conf be symlinked by default?	17:42
matrx	having done that, the problem seems to have resolved itself on subsequent reboots	17:42
matrx	and strangley now 400mhz is the default max_freq for the ondemand gov	17:43
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lardman	matrx: no, it needn't be symlinked, but if not you need to add another switch + the path to the conf file	17:48
lardman	matrx: this is handled correctly by the init scripts and dmse, just easier to symlink if you need to restart it often to avoid typing	17:49
lardman	s/dmse/dsme	17:49
matrx	so it's just chance that this reboot worked as expected?	17:50
lardman	well not chance, it's just the fact you restarted the DSP	17:50
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lardman	had you rebooted the entire machine before and it not fixed the issue>	17:51
lardman	?	17:51
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matrx	i had in fact	17:51
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matrx	it's actually why i reflashed diablo	17:51
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lardman	oh, wierd then	17:51
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lardman	well it may re-occur then, restarting the dsp is not something different to what happens when you restart the machine, and the symlink should make no odds whatsoever	17:52
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matrx	so oh well	18:00
lardman	might it have been something you installed?	18:01
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matrx	lardman- i'll just move on and pretend i was crazy unless it starts happening again	18:07
lardman	best plan :)	18:07
aquatix	that's not that hard anyway ;)	18:07
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mgedmin	"sapwood [...] may well be the most advanced Gtk pixmap engine right now" -- http://dborg.wordpress.com/2008/11/19/creating-themes/	18:50
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* lcuk bangs head on desk multiple times		19:03
RST38h	reMoo	19:03
* RST38h supplies lcuk with a few silicate bricks		19:04
* lcuk prefers to nuzzle in silicone		19:04
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RST38h	lcuk: whazzup with liqbase btw?	19:06
johnx	mgedmin, nevermind the fact that it can be a huge PITA :/	19:07
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lcuk	RST38h, what do you mean whazzup?	19:09
* Stskeeps plays with a builder script		19:11
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RST38h	lcuk: any new features coming? release quality ui? icons?	19:13
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lcuk	talk soon	19:14
RST38h	evil, keeping everybody in suspense like that	19:16
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lcuk	RST38h, not evil, just have customer vnc session and ive booted everyone out of their database and i need to finish this first :P	19:22
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pupnik	hoohoo	19:22
RST38h	lcuk: drop *; commit4 done	19:23
RST38h	pupnik ehlo	19:23
pupnik	good day RST38h	19:24
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pupnik	you're hanging out in #maemo a lot lately RST38h :)	19:24
pupnik	i'm using my dentist's internet atm... (heh)	19:25
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GeneralAntilles	Hey, pupnik.	19:27
RST38h	pupnik: my screen is	19:27
RST38h	lcuk: well at least they will finally haul him off and you wont hear the screams	19:28
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pupnik	hey	19:31
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mimshita	hello, i see to have a problem with gtkhtml, i can find the correct repos for that group of packages	19:52
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mimshita	can anyone help me, thanks	19:57
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johnx	I think it's installed on the tablet to start with. do you need the dev files for it?	19:58
johnx	s/dev files/headers/	19:58
infobot	johnx meant: I think it's installed on the tablet to start with. do you need the headers for it?	19:58
mimshita	i'm using the cross platform	19:59
mimshita	maemo armel	19:59
mimshita	to compile the source code first	19:59
johnx	well the packages are here: http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.1/free/g/gtkhtml/	20:00
mimshita	but maybe i'm doing it wrong...this step should be on the tablet	20:00
mimshita	humm...	20:00
johnx	you compile in scratchbox, but I think it should already have gtkhtml installed	20:01
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mimshita	i thought so too, but the reality is whrn compiling my application it gives an error because of the missing package	20:02
johnx	try this: apt-cache policy gtkhtml-dev	20:03
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johnx	does it say that gtkhtml-dev is installed?	20:03
mimshita	yes	20:06
mimshita	gtkhtml-dev:	20:06
mimshita	Installed: 3.13.91-3osso15	20:06
johnx	then the problem is likely that your application isn't finding it correctly	20:06
mimshita	maybe it is trying for an older version...	20:07
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Khertan_n810	Hello !	20:08
johnx	hi Khertan_n810	20:08
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Khertan_n810	treeview and preferences gui are a real pain to do !	20:09
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mimshita	this has been a real pain just from install	20:10
mimshita	i started to install maemo 4.1 then updated to 4.1.1 and always had lots of problems with the repos	20:11
johnx	well the problems with repos should be over	20:11
johnx	the servers were being shuffled around recently	20:11
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mimshita	good:)	20:12
mimshita	can one of you tell me a url with a nice howto install maemo, I found an txt, that had all the steps	20:12
Stskeeps	johnx: now with hasty-armv5el{-vfp}, hasty-armv6-vfp, jaunty-armel, jaunty-i386 build rootstraps :P	20:13
mimshita	but i always have the feelling that not all was installed	20:13
johnx	mimshita, why do you think that?	20:13
johnx	Stskeeps, great. see the latest screenshot?	20:13
Stskeeps	johnx: nop?	20:14
johnx	it actually doesn't look b0rken :)	20:14
johnx	http://tinyurl.com/6nk2ow	20:14
Stskeeps	oh that's quite neat	20:14
Stskeeps	:)	20:14
johnx	that's the most important use of my tablet so it had to be first...now I just need to be able to enter text :)	20:14
GeneralAntilles	Ooh, nice, johnx.	20:15
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mimshita	for example this, is is strange that the install file does not recognize or is able to find the lib on compilation, unless...	20:15
johnx	for most basic python apps it should really just be some dependency tweaking :)	20:15
Stskeeps	johnx: there's always the home-applets maybe	20:16
Stskeeps	home-ip etc	20:16
johnx	mimshita, that's a normal part of cross compiling I think	20:16
Stskeeps	they're python so	20:16
johnx	ah, I could do python-desktop next I guess	20:16
Khertan_n810	homeip	20:16
Khertan_n810	no -	20:16
mimshita	do you know the latest version of libgtkhtml?	20:16
mimshita	probably:), i'm kinda new to the process	20:16
Stskeeps	mimshita: libgtkhtml is a bit special on tablet	20:17
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Khertan_n810	if special == slow:	20:18
Khertan_n810	return True	20:18
Khertan_n810	johnx: what that's screenshots ?	20:18
johnx	quicknote running in Mer (formerly maemo-reconstructed)	20:19
johnx	infobot, mer is the distribution formerly known as Maemo Reconsctructed	20:19
infobot	okay, johnx	20:19
Khertan_n810	maemo-reconstructed ... i still doesn t understand what this mean ... but	20:19
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johnx	it's Nokia's maemo UI parts on to of a minimal ubuntu base	20:20
Meiz_n810	johnx: try to add usb-host command to rc.local, and then you can use usb keyboard...	20:20
Khertan_n810	the app look like interested infact ...	20:20
johnx	well, yeah, that's the easy way out, but it's cheating :P	20:20
Khertan_n810	simple ...	20:20
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mimshita	I see...nowadays it's constantly running against the clock, and each error is a head against the wall:)	20:20
Khertan_n810	Does it s available for a 'normal' maemo os ?	20:20
johnx	Khertan_n810, I highly recommend it. It shares a lot in common with the PalmOS Memo app	20:21
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Khertan_n810	yep this look like	20:21
Khertan_n810	i ve planned to do something like that	20:21
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Khertan_n810	but don t have the time to write it	20:21
johnx	if you want it: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/quicknote/	20:21
zakkkmm	how come i cant install rtcomm? it has missing dependencies	20:22
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zakkkmm	( diablo , n800 )	20:22
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zakkkmm	i added the colla... repository	20:22
zakkkmm	and added several with it.	20:22
johnx	did you follow all the instructions?	20:22
zakkkmm	johnx: talking to me?	20:23
johnx	yes	20:23
zakkkmm	theres instructions?	20:23
Meiz_n810	johnx: did you start quicknote from menu?	20:23
johnx	Meiz_n810, I did	20:23
zakkkmm	on my old n770, it just required me to click install ;p	20:23
Meiz_n810	if i start something from menu, window-decorations diappear immediately	20:24
johnx	zakkkmm, http://rtcomm.garage.maemo.org/	20:24
johnx	Meiz_n810, that's odd	20:25
Meiz_n810	starting from telnet does not brake window decorations	20:25
Khertan_n810	johnx: an other repository ? not in extras ?	20:25
zakkkmm	oh cool, thanks johnx	20:25
johnx	Khertan_n810, extras-devel	20:25
Khertan_n810	hum... strange that application manager ask for adding repository	20:26
johnx	Meiz_n810, does it crash matchbox or something?	20:26
Khertan_n810	as i ve already it	20:26
johnx	they might have the title of extras devel different?	20:26
johnx	I wonder if that would cause it...	20:26
zakkkmm	what does red pill actually do?	20:26
johnx	it changes which packages are allowed to be installed	20:26
Khertan_n810	... it stupid if this is only that	20:26
zakkkmm	so its like "super" devel?	20:27
timeless	it gives you ~8 more options	20:27
GeneralAntilles	~red-pill	20:27
GeneralAntilles	zakkkmm, evil things	20:27
Meiz_n810	johnx: menu and advanceb-bklight still appear in the right place, but the app i start from menu appears in top corner...	20:27
GeneralAntilles	https://wiki.maemo.org/Red_Pill_mode	20:27
GeneralAntilles	~red-pill is https://wiki.maemo.org/Red_Pill_mode	20:27
infobot	okay, GeneralAntilles	20:27
zakkkmm	im on my highschool pc	20:27
Khertan_n810	do you have some ui freeze while many apps are open on maemo	20:29
Khertan_n810	?	20:29
zakkkmm	khertan_n810: me?	20:30
johnx	Khertan_n810, probably a memory shortage?	20:30
Khertan_n810	i ve about three web page, 12 xterm, 2 python app, file manager, and music player running	20:30
Khertan_n810	johnx : maybe	20:30
johnx	definitely a memory shortage	20:30
Khertan_n810	:)	20:30
johnx	I'm sure lots of stuff is paged out	20:30
zakkkmm	wow	20:30
Khertan_n810	and xchat :)	20:31
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johnx	surprised you haven't dropped from IRC actually	20:31
Khertan_n810	19:31:16 up 6 days, 39 min, load average: 2.50, 3.72, 2.55	20:31
zakkkmm	xchat is nice :)	20:31
zakkkmm	;o	20:31
Khertan_n810	nope xchat work well	20:31
zakkkmm	3.72 ... that must be laggy :P	20:31
Khertan_n810	the only drop i get is from a phone data connection lost	20:32
Khertan_n810	not really laagy in fact	20:32
Khertan_n810	just get sometime a 5s lag	20:32
* zakkkmm calls that laggy		20:32
Khertan_n810	specially when i make a large svn commit	20:32
zakkkmm	on the nokia? :p	20:32
zakkkmm	you use svn on the nokia? :P	20:33
Khertan_n810	yep but this 5s appear sometime ... i ll say with 15 min of interval	20:33
Khertan_n810	yep i use svn on the tablet	20:33
zakkkmm	oh	20:33
Khertan_n810	as i code on the tablet :)	20:33
zakkkmm	anyone know a good free sip, for the nokia?	20:33
GeneralAntilles	zakkkmm, Khertan_n810 is what we in the biz like to call a "crazy person". ;)	20:34
Khertan_n810	the most laggy thing is running glade one the tablet	20:34
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zakkkmm	never heard of glade ;p	20:34
zakkkmm	coding on the nokia just sounds odd ;p	20:34
Khertan_n810	GeneralAntilles: not a crazy personn just someone optimizing time	20:34
thopiekar	aaah a little question... if i view my svn-"repo" of maemo-garage with eclipse it don't show any folders...	20:34
zakkkmm	i guess the n810 has a keyboard but yeah	20:35
Khertan_n810	yep but before n810 i code with an n800	20:35
Khertan_n810	:)	20:35
thopiekar	but when i'm using my google.code's svn i works fine	20:35
johnx	hence "crazy person"	20:35
Khertan_n810	and before on my palm directly with an onboard compiler	20:35
Khertan_n810	lol	20:35
johnx	update on h-i-m: sapwood is the one triggering the X error	20:36
Khertan_n810	who is responsible of the icon for quicknote ?	20:36
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johnx	I have no idea	20:36
johnx	there's a homepage for it listed on the page on maemo.org/downloads though	20:36
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zakkkmm	how would irc work in rtcomm?	20:37
Stskeeps	johnx: happens with both Xomap and xorg?	20:37
zakkkmm	does it show channels as ppl ?	20:37
johnx	I can't get that part to work in Xomap :/	20:37
johnx	I guess that should be my next real test	20:37
Stskeeps	it crashes in Xomap too or what do you mean? :P	20:37
Stskeeps	oh	20:37
Stskeeps	right	20:37
Stskeeps	tslib was it?	20:37
johnx	in Xorg, the keyboard starts to draw then crashes	20:38
johnx	in Xomap, it won't try to pop up the keyboard	20:38
zakkkmm	anyone know a good SIP, for nokia?	20:38
johnx	I'll test again as I'm out of good ideas	20:38
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mimshita	sofia-sip!	20:38
Stskeeps	ah	20:39
GeneralAntilles	zakkkmm, channels are chat rooms.	20:39
GeneralAntilles	It sucks in comparison to XChat.	20:39
Khertan_n810	hum quicknote ui is a bit strange	20:39
johnx	Khertan_n810, you get used to it. it has the right workflow at least: open, right note, close, never worry about saving	20:39
Khertan_n810	yep ... don t worry about saving is ok	20:40
johnx	right -> write of course	20:40
Khertan_n810	what is strange is 'new note' in the list ... as their is an add button	20:40
johnx	mer	20:41
zakkkmm	why does MSN ( haze ) give network error?	20:41
Khertan_n810	mer what ?	20:41
Khertan_n810	don t understanf	20:41
Khertan_n810	s/understanf/understand	20:41
johnx	at myself for for right/write	20:41
* Stskeeps passes johnx some coffee		20:42
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johnx	Stskeeps, heh...not if I want to sleep at anything resembling a normal time...lost cause already huh?	20:42
Stskeeps	yeah	20:42
Stskeeps	:P	20:42
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zakkkmm	how come i recieve network error with msn and irc?	20:42
zakkkmm	aim connects okay though	20:43
Stskeeps	johnx: i'm pondering if the beagleboard at my work is on fire or something.. i'm giving it quite a beating	20:43
johnx	my zaurii haven't died yet, neither has my n800	20:44
johnx	your beagle will be fine	20:44
Stskeeps	hehe	20:45
zakkkmm	how come it shows irc connected, but it didnt join this chatroom nor did it appear in "online"	20:45
johnx	because it's a beta	20:46
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Khertan_n810	arring at train station	20:52
Khertan_n810	bye	20:52
Khertan_n810	arriving	20:52
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Pavlov	hrmp	20:54
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GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, hehe, yes, that's better. ;)	20:56
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qwerty12_N800	"I downloaded this app called "Hello World App" on my nokia n800 then i realized it didn't do much,"	21:11
GeneralAntilles	Ahaha	21:11
GeneralAntilles	qwerty12_N800, you should patch it to ask for a name and say "Hello World, and $NAME!" :P	21:12
GeneralAntilles	Then, maybe, he'll be satisfied.	21:12
qwerty12_N800	lol	21:13
lcuk	what is the modern equivalent of "10 print 'hello world' : 20 goto 10"	21:14
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, ferencs got karma feeding a dummy user. http://maemo.org/profile/view/test_user/ http://maemo.org/profile/view/test/ :D	21:14
qwerty12_N800	All that karma should be mine!	21:15
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, well, mine would be: 1. Offer lcuk bacon for coding a Hello World app. 2. lcuk codes Hello World app. 3. The bacon is a lie.	21:15
lcuk	haha, but if the bacon is a lie wont the bpig be angry	21:15
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johnx	while true ; do echo oh hai there ; done	21:20
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johnx	even updated the message to be understandable by today's youth	21:21
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Stskeeps	johnx: http://trac.tspre.org/svn/m-r/trunk/installer/apt.preferences , would an extra section with a=jaunty work too?	21:22
qwerty12_N800	s/oh hai there/wag1	21:22
johnx	Stskeeps, sure	21:22
Stskeeps	with same pin priority?	21:23
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* johnx thinks through all the implications		21:24
GeneralAntilles	Any comments on this? https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo.org_Sprints	21:24
lcuk	johnx:	21:24
lcuk	'while' is not recognized as an internal or external command,	21:24
lcuk	operable program or batch file.	21:24
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: what are you planning to do with jaunty?	21:24
johnx	lcuk, your shell is wrong :)	21:24
disco_stu	his shell is ill	21:25
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: we're compiling for a bunch of different bases to cover our bases	21:25
johnx	Stskeeps, yes, as long as mojo guys have been good and haven't modified any packages without bumping the version number	21:25
Meiz_n810	ok	21:25
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johnx	but really, you probably want to track one distro explicitly if you want to maintain some kind of sanity	21:26
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johnx	jaunty should always be higher or equal...but I don't like leaving it to that	21:26
disco_stu	johnx, do you know an easy way to change wlan txpower	21:27
johnx	you can reduce it in the connectivity settings	21:27
johnx	but it won't help you	21:27
disco_stu	iwconfig doesnt work	21:27
johnx	correct	21:27
disco_stu	johnx, in that dialog it takes a lot	21:28
disco_stu	to actually get there	21:28
johnx	yes, it does	21:28
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johnx	but also "it won't help you"	21:28
johnx	it will not affect battery life	21:28
johnx	it's only to comply with regulations in certain countries	21:29
disco_stu	johnx, it does reduce battery consumption	21:30
johnx	no it doesn't according to the Nokia engineers	21:30
johnx	I'll dig up the quote if you need me to	21:30
disco_stu	its alright	21:31
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disco_stu	i've experinced how it improves range	21:32
disco_stu	too bad it doesnt with battery life	21:33
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johnx	most of the time the card is idle so the radio is off	21:33
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disco_stu	yes	21:34
johnx	it's possible that if you were right next to the access point, uploading constantly it might have some effect	21:34
johnx	but if you set it to the lower value it will just force the card to retransmit all the time and waste power	21:34
disco_stu	a problem i found is that the n800 wont disassociate from aps when intended to do so	21:35
johnx	just switch to offline mode	21:35
disco_stu	the card goes offline	21:36
disco_stu	but the ap still thinks she is there	21:36
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johnx	that's by definition the AP's problem	21:36
disco_stu	no	21:37
disco_stu	it only happens with n800	21:37
disco_stu	nor with palms, notebooks	21:38
johnx	is it a stale dhcp lease? is it an entry in the ARP table? lots of possibilities	21:39
johnx	also: does it cause any problem?	21:39
johnx	anyways, I'm off to bed, so good luck with your AP	21:39
Stskeeps	night johnx	21:39
disco_stu	the assoc list has nothing to do with dhcp	21:40
disco_stu	nor arp cache	21:40
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disco_stu	and it doesnt cause problems, just upsets me	21:41
disco_stu	johnx, n8	21:41
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Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: where should i create symbolic link to get flash work in epiphany-webkit? (using jaunty)	21:44
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GeneralAntilles	disco_stu, then stop looking at the list. ;)	21:52
disco_stu	GeneralAntilles: lol	21:53
disco_stu	the thing is that i had an script running in my accespoint wich blinks some leds, just to know if i have clientes connected	21:53
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: er.. look in the source for the package i guess	21:53
disco_stu	and my n800 is spoiling int	21:53
disco_stu	s/int/it/	21:54
infobot	disco_stu meant: and my n800 is spoiling it	21:54
Meiz_n810	ok	21:54
GeneralAntilles	Shouldn't your N800 be connected when you're home, anyway?	21:54
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disco_stu	GeneralAntilles: i use it a lot at home	21:54
disco_stu	:P	21:55
GeneralAntilles	qwerty12_N800, that took, what, 3 days for the community to do what Nokia couldn't manage in 8 months?	21:55
GeneralAntilles	Awesome.	21:55
qwerty12_N800	GeneralAntilles, I know. It's pretty effing pathetic in my opinion.	21:56
GeneralAntilles	qwerty12_N800, I think it's about time to jettison dependence on Nokia.	21:56
qwerty12_N800	For sure. :)	21:57
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GeneralAntilles	Always leverage the strengths of the resources available to you.	21:58
GeneralAntilles	Fast turnaround and sane policies are not one of Nokia's strengths.	21:58
Mousey	id	21:59
Mousey	oops	21:59
Mousey	tu	21:59
Mousey	oops, wrong channel	21:59
RST38h	General: Nokia's handling of Maemo is better than 90% other companies would do though	22:00
RST38h	General: Examples: Motorola's developer support, Adobe's "open sourced" flash player, Sun's "open sourced" MIDP2 lacking crucial sourcecode pieces	22:01
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RST38h	Google's....mmm...whatever they call Android nowadays	22:02
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GeneralAntilles	RST38h, sure, but I don't do business with those other companies.	22:02
RST38h	Luckily for you :)	22:02
RST38h	Pretty much the closest to Nokia is Microsoft with WinMobile	22:02
GeneralAntilles	No reason not to expect better simply because other companies do a lot worse.	22:03
RST38h	Support-wise. But I would rather eat toilet paper than use WinMobile...	22:03
RST38h	General: Just saying that Nokia is trying.	22:03
Stskeeps	toliet paper, you say..	22:03
qwerty12_N800	RST38h, winmo here over uiq (and i like symbian)	22:03
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, and I'd be the first to say so. ;)	22:04
RST38h	General: like a dinosaur trying to bite off a dandelion, indeed, but trying	22:04
RST38h	qwerty: UIQ wasn't that bad really. Buggy implementations, but not as fundamentally broken as WinMobile	22:04
qwerty12_N800	RST38h, Serious lack of programs for it. Even uiq hacking is small compared to s60 hackers (and sony ericsson enea ose based phones have a shitton of hackers)	22:06
RST38h	qwerty: That's different from being fuckied up as a platform	22:07
RST38h	qwerty: Has to deal with Sony ericsson not marketing UIQ phones at all	22:08
RST38h	ok, they tried with P1 in Moscow and a lot of people still have P1s here	22:08
qwerty12_N800	The results of Sony Ericsson's inactions still makes me want to go with WinMo instead :)	22:11
RST38h	Oh, do try, if you really have to	22:11
RST38h	Just don't buy WinMo phone, borrow it for a week	22:11
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GeneralAntilles	qwerty12_N800, when are you gonna put together a wifi page so we can stop staring at this same retarded thread over and over and over again. . . . http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=243217#post243217	22:14
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qwerty12_N800	Fine, but I may need help with tables in the wiki :P	22:16
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GeneralAntilles	Woot!	22:18
GeneralAntilles	Just get the info in there, I'll make it look pretty.	22:18
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* qwerty12_N800 dislikes that applet actually. It seems to have an inability with restoring disabled services back in the correct order (browserd is a nice example, but I guess it's because the applet uses update-rc.d)		22:19
qwerty12_N800	:)	22:19
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qwerty12_N800	lcuk, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=243215&postcount=4 - evidently not a sarcasm fan :p	22:22
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GeneralAntilles	Ha	22:24
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RST38h	General: Maybe making a list of all services running on the tablet with explanations of what each service does is in order?	22:26
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RST38h	like WinNT service administration list does (it has got explanations for each service)	22:26
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, qwerty12 seems to be on it.	22:26
dougt_	weird question -- is there a way to remove the battery, have the device plugged in, and have it work. mozilla is setting up a testing lab and wants to be able to hard reboot this in case of an error (by automatically removing power).	22:26
qwerty12_N800	RST38h, that's what i've been commissioned for :p. i'll start a draft in the morning (typing that draft on the n800 would kill me first)	22:27
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GeneralAntilles	dougt_, sadly, no.	22:28
GeneralAntilles	dougt_, it's not wired for that	22:28
RST38h	qwerty, General: Just give me a wiki page address and I will make a table there	22:28
RST38h	with all the currently running services	22:28
RST38h	we can fill in explanations later	22:29
GeneralAntilles	Partially because the tablets can actually draw more power than the wallchargers can provide.	22:29
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dougt_	GeneralAntilles: so, what happens when the battery is at zero and that happens?	22:32
qwerty12_N800	RST38h, I haven't started anything yet (and I'm not good with titles either :))	22:32
disco_stu	dougt_: what could happen	22:32
GeneralAntilles	dougt_, that situation doesn't really exist.	22:32
GeneralAntilles	The battery is never truly at zero	22:32
RST38h	ok, lemme see if I can start it	22:33
GeneralAntilles	The tablet would turn itself off if the battery level is at critical, though (30% or so)	22:33
GeneralAntilles	Thanks, RST38h! :)	22:33
dougt_	one more bad question, any router suggestions to work well with the n810s? PSM has been killing me. I am using a airport extreme and see frequent router reboots	22:34
GeneralAntilles	dougt_, I've had no issue with DD-WRT and Tomato stuff.	22:34
dougt_	got a link?	22:35
GeneralAntilles	I'd recommend the Buffalo WHR-G125, but they're been locked out of sale in the US thanks to some idiotic patent issues.	22:35
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GeneralAntilles	WRT-54GL is the old standby	22:35
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GeneralAntilles	dougt_, http://www.polarcloud.com/tomatofaq#what_will_this_run_on	22:36
GeneralAntilles	Tomato is a lighter, faster, more open-source friendly replacement for DD-WRT	22:36
RST38h	General: Hwo do I create a new page?	22:38
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RST38h	Found it	22:38
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, just type in the title	22:38
* qwerty12_N800 would love it if his netgear ran dd-wrt. I spend my time cross compiling the stuff I want and then updating the code i use to glue <whatever> to nvram :\		22:38
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GeneralAntilles	DD-WRT looks good in comparison to default firmwares	22:38
GeneralAntilles	but it's an ugly piece of shit in comparison to Tomato	22:39
GeneralAntilles	and DD-WRT pretty much hates open source.	22:39
Veggen	uhm...openwrt?	22:39
Stskeeps	qwerty12_N800: pop quiz, cflags for armv5el, armv5el-vfp, and armv6-vfp? :P	22:39
qwerty12_N800	thomson routers should be avoided like the plague if you like custom firmwares.	22:40
GeneralAntilles	Veggen, generally less newbie-friendly, I guess.	22:40
GeneralAntilles	But also a good option.	22:40
qwerty12_N800	Stskeeps, i can get you armv6-vfp flags, the others, not a chance :p	22:40
Stskeeps	k	22:40
* Stskeeps is setting up the builder atm so		22:41
qwerty12_N800	Stskeeps, if by armv5, we mean 770, 770 doesn't have a fp	22:41
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Stskeeps	mm	22:42
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GeneralAntilles	dougt_, if they want to be a little more dirty, they could probably wire up power directly to the battery pads.	22:44
qwerty12_N800	Stskeeps, "-mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp -mcpu=arm1136jf-s -mtune=arm1136jf-s"	22:44
dougt_	yeah, that is what I am thinking	22:44
dougt_	GeneralAntilles: do you know the specs?	22:44
dougt_	(i guess, i could just look at the battery.	22:45
dougt_	)	22:45
GeneralAntilles	dougt_, 3.7v 1500mAh	22:45
dougt_	please tell me you have one in front of you.	22:45
GeneralAntilles	Well, um, technically yes.	22:45
GeneralAntilles	But I'm not looking at it. :P	22:46
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Mousey	I AM NOW HOLDING MY NEW SANDISK 16GB MICROSD CARD!	22:58
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Mousey	happiest n810 evar, on the brink of happinesshood!	22:59
GeneralAntilles	Congratulations, you're now exactly where N800 owners were 8 months ago. :P	22:59
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Mousey	GeneralAntilles, ha ha	22:59
* qwerty12_N800 gets the ski mask. Mousey's happiness will not be for long muhahahaha		22:59
Mousey	well if i had a REAL SD slot, instead of this miniscule blahblah tinyslotnonsense	23:01
RST38h	General: Beautify at will: http://wiki.maemo.org/Services	23:01
Mousey	=P	23:01
* Mousey clicks		23:02
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Mousey	i know the answrs to some of the ???'s!	23:03
GeneralAntilles	Aaah, excellent, RST38h. :D	23:03
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, <nitpick>It's either "Extras" or "maemo.org Extras"</nitpick>	23:05
qwerty12_N800	RST38h, cool, thanks. brightness-permission is installed by adv-backlight for 770's with fanoush's kernel to let you echo to required sysfs entry to change brightness. n8x0 users have no need of it at all actually (and is disabled by default for n8x0)	23:05
qwerty12_N800	...echo to required sysfs entry to change brightness ^ as"user"	23:05
GeneralAntilles	Any other columns that should be added to the table?	23:06
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lcuk	Mousey, are you a red dwarf fan?	23:07
RST38h	General: You fix it, ok? =)	23:08
* qwerty12_N800 is willing to add to descriptions & add a new table for daemons that are not on the device by default tommorow. and a "required/essential/willmydeviceblowupifidisablethis" column		23:08
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, yeah, it's all cleaned up.	23:08
RST38h	And add the links and the styles too because I am stupid and hate Wiki markup language	23:08
RST38h	qwerty: I have got those in the same list (like carmand)	23:09
Mousey	lcuk, not so much, familiar with it, but not a big fan	23:09
RST38h	qwerty: What the table really needs is idiot-proof descriptions	23:09
qwerty12_N800	RST38h, i know :). I have the feeling that i will be seeing "zomg, i don't have carmand listed in my services, do i need to reflash"	23:10
qwerty12_N800	if they aren't separated	23:11
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RST38h	qwerty: maybe... then you want to separate ones that only run on startup	23:12
lcuk	mousey (and others) i think of this EVERY time i'm holding a memory stick http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=DpZiNO2CRtw	23:12
lcuk	2 minutes 05 for the specific	23:13
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RST38h	General: I added some descriptions. Check please.	23:19
GeneralAntilles	Would some "types" be useful?	23:19
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GeneralAntilles	RST38h, I separated the tables.	23:23
RST38h	ok	23:23
RST38h	More descriptions added	23:26
RST38h	You want someone from Nokia to add more involved descriptions	23:26
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GeneralAntilles	I think there are some descriptions in the documentation	23:27
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qwerty12_N800	maemo-launcher isn't responsible for "Loading..." messages. hildon-desktop produces them when starting an app via dbus	23:28
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RST38h	what is it responsible for then?	23:30
qwerty12_N800	maemo-launcher precaches some gtk stuff like pango etc. if your application is linked to maemo-launcher, your application can startup quicker	23:31
RST38h	ah	23:31
RST38h	making change	23:31
* qwerty12_N800 promises to add detailed descriptions in the morning (must have said it about 3 or 4 times already :))		23:35
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RST38h	ok, I am going to go read and hit the bed	23:35
RST38h	that page is all yours now	23:35
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* Stskeeps is in evil scientist mood today. builder that connects to jaiku		23:43
Stskeeps	ok, mad scientist more closely	23:43
RST38h	"See, what airplanes are good at is blowing up expensive, visible, identifiable things, to include other airplanes. An aircraft carrier in the open Pacific fits the bill nicely"	23:43
RST38h	Hehe	23:43
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RST38h	"Never, ever underestimate fun as a driver of military policy."	23:51
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Stskeeps	http://merbuilder.jaiku.com/ , hehe	23:54
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