IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2008-11-18

andre__	there will be another SSU for diablo. maybe even two. honestly, i don't know, but i've heard rumours	00:00
milhouse	If that bombshell drops ITt will fall off the face of the earth	00:00
GeneralAntilles	The reality is that Fremantle may just not be able to run on OMAP2 hardware.	00:00
lcuk2	dont shoot the messenger GeneralAntilles, how do you know its the same lead thats there now as who said that originally	00:00
* qwerty12_N800 gives 2 fingers to the inventor of that excuse. Stupid bellend.		00:00
milhouse	GAN: Bogus? You put it mildly sir! ;)	00:00
GeneralAntilles	lcuk2, he deserves to be shot for giving it out with a straight face while not at gunpoint.	00:01
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lcuk2	think about it GeneralAntilles the guy could have honestly meant it at the time, but now its like "oh shit" - kind like running out of doctor who transformations	00:01
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Andy80	what package I'm missing in Scratchbox if I get this error starting a Python/GTK application: ImportError: No module named gtk	00:02
Andy80	?	00:02
milhouse	Maybe Fremantle won't run on N8x0 in the same way that it was impossible to get OS2007 to work on 770...	00:02
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GeneralAntilles	Who else thinks the reason Nokia is delaying the DSME source release is so my anger dies down about them moving code into MCE? <_<	00:02
lcuk2	andy80 pygtk?	00:02
GeneralAntilles	milhouse, Clutter	00:02
GeneralAntilles	Totally new media framework	00:02
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GeneralAntilles	OMAP3 is fucking lightyears ahead of OMAP2	00:03
milhouse	yah... they might be right this time :)	00:03
GeneralAntilles	Not even close to the jump from OMAP1 to OMAP2	00:03
Andy80	lcuk2: yes, but what is the exact package name?	00:03
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: should come soon according to qgil :P	00:03
milhouse	assuming they use all it's goodies of course!	00:03
qwerty12_N800	GeneralAntilles, I hope the rtcomm guy "helps" us out again re mce...	00:03
GeneralAntilles	milhouse, they will.	00:03
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milhouse	GAN: what makes you so sure?	00:04
lcuk2	Andy80, at your console type apt-cache search pygtk	00:04
GeneralAntilles	DSP will be used for video decoding	00:04
GeneralAntilles	there will be 3D drivers.	00:04
GeneralAntilles	milhouse, they said so at the Summit.	00:04
lcuk2	it will list matching packages, see which jumps out	00:04
lcuk2	dsp video?	00:04
milhouse	GAN: Sweet... i'll cross my fingers...	00:04
GeneralAntilles	lcuk2, the IVA2 is a little different from the IVA	00:04
lcuk2	yeah, but its wrong to say its dsp	00:04
Andy80	lcuk2: they're all installed	00:04
lcuk2	dunno then andy	00:05
milhouse	I think if/when it becomes official that Fremantle won't run on N8x0 hardware then Nokia have a duty of care to release everything possible to allow community support...	00:05
lcuk2	theres no saying its NOT possible yet	00:05
lcuk2	theres options for 3d on this device still	00:05
milhouse	ok if if if	00:05
Stskeeps	MCE is replacable. DSME is replacable.	00:05
GeneralAntilles	milhouse, well, we've got open source wlan drivers.	00:05
lcuk2	maybe not 800*480 but i think its possible	00:05
GeneralAntilles	So we're not stuck with an old kernel	00:05
milhouse	GAN: Woohoo! :) But that's just for starters, right?	00:06
Stskeeps	milhouse: i'm able to replicate a horridly lot of maemo functionality so far	00:06
GeneralAntilles	The kernel is really the nastiest hurdle.	00:06
GeneralAntilles	Everything else is either non-critical or has open source equivalents.	00:06
lcuk2	bbl	00:06
milhouse	What happened to BME?	00:07
qwerty12_N800	still exists	00:07
Stskeeps	is a hald addon now really	00:07
milhouse	is that open sourced know or are we still having to guess what it does?	00:07
GeneralAntilles	lcuk2, the C64x is a DSP	00:07
Stskeeps	the communication part, that is	00:07
milhouse	s/know/now	00:07
Stskeeps	with FTD it will take a determined person a couple of days to reveal entire BME status, really	00:08
Stskeeps	but let's see how nokia will act regarding fremantle :P	00:08
milhouse	yeah, everyone (from Nokia) keeps saying it's really simple to reverse engineer it - if it's that simple, why do we have to? don't make us beg, jump through hoops...	00:08
GeneralAntilles	Ha	00:09
Stskeeps	bme i can understand why they don't want us fiddling with, though	00:09
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GeneralAntilles	Kaboom	00:09
zakkm	is jonx or Stskeeps here?	00:09
Stskeeps	but publishing interfaces to get current power usage, battery level, etc, should be enough	00:09
milhouse	all the more reason may be to give us the details? :) someone will work it out eventually, if it really is that simple	00:09
Stskeeps	zakkm: .. i'm around	00:09
lcuk2	you arent called the General for nothing gen :) you are right of course, i thought the ISP was used for vid decoding http://focus.ti.com/general/docs/wtbu/wtbuproductcontent.tsp?templateId=6123&navigationId=12643&contentId=14649	00:09
zakkm	oh Stskeeps: did you want the "server"?	00:10
zakkm	would it help?	00:10
GeneralAntilles	lcuk2, ISP is for the camera (up to 12MP)	00:10
zakkm	lcuk2: why is liqbase camera .. upside down?	00:10
Stskeeps	zakkm: sure, - right now im compiling somewhere im not really supposed to :P	00:10
GeneralAntilles	So, you're more or less correct. ;)	00:10
milhouse	IVA on OMAP2 is for video acceleration, but not used.	00:10
lcuk2	zakkm, cos i had a locked camera n810 and didnt realise there was anything needed in code to do	00:11
zakkm	Stskeeps: Is it just debian + ssh ?	00:11
lcuk2	it will be fixed for the next release	00:11
Stskeeps	zakkm: ubuntu server is probably best	00:11
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Stskeeps	as we develop on a ubuntu base	00:11
zakkm	lcuk2: ah okay, my friends in drama class ( grade 12 - highschool ) was like wtf why is it upside down	00:11
lcuk2	GeneralAntilles, yeah i see	00:11
zakkm	oh i think that somewhere	00:11
zakkm	would be 7.04	00:11
lcuk2	zakkm, did you (and them) like it	00:11
GeneralAntilles	lcuk2, bringing the IVA and DSP together is likely to increase the usage	00:11
lcuk2	yeah no doubt	00:12
Stskeeps	milhouse: if we actually get something about of seperating the maemo from the hw support, and establishing a core platform which we -then- place hw support on top of.. then things look a lot different	00:12
GeneralAntilles	I'm not sure ANYTHING uses the IVA on OMAP2	00:12
zakkm	yeah, the normal camera app freezes my nokia ;p	00:12
GeneralAntilles	It's hard enough to get the DSP to do useful things.	00:12
zakkm	also, why is it tiled?	00:12
lcuk2	no, but it has RGB->YUV locked up inside it	00:12
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lcuk2	i wanted to use it as a pathway from the PVR output plane into the memory for sending to LCD	00:12
lcuk2	to maintain nice fast all hardware pipeline	00:12
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milhouse	i do hope the video on the next device isn't as fcked up as the last one	00:13
Stskeeps	milhouse: then ideally all nokia would have to do is support their binary blobs and just rebuild the images.. but we'll see :P	00:13
lcuk2	its the sensor quality which lets it down	00:13
milhouse	lcuk: and the video bandwidth (or lack of)	00:14
lcuk2	in liqbase i desaturate every image by 50% to try to reduce the snow	00:14
zakkm	is this OMAP3430 the one in the nokia n800?	00:14
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lcuk2	my dedicated camera has trouble showing live 640*480 video feeds its just recorded	00:14
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milhouse	lcuk: but deffo agree on the sensor quality... I had a look at an iPhone the other day, I gave it back and sobbed gently to myself (nobody saw so that's ok)	00:14
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GeneralAntilles	milhouse, OMAP3 can decode 720p without issue just with NEON optimizations.	00:14
GeneralAntilles	zakkm, the N8x0 has an OMAP2420	00:15
zakkm	oh	00:15
lcuk2	milhouse, i've pushed as hard as i can re the camera and people all appeared to agree that a better camera will be included	00:15
milhouse	GAN: that'll be nice, maybe the new device will have video out like my N85 (composite output via a 3.5mm headphone socket)	00:15
zakkm	does this opengl fremantle is suppose to bring, work on the n800?	00:15
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lcuk2	nobody knows	00:15
zakkm	or is it referring to the new nokia model	00:15
GeneralAntilles	milhouse, it's got a whole 640x480 framebuffer just for video out.	00:15
GeneralAntilles	Hopefully Nokia hooks it up to something.	00:15
JamieBennett	zakkm: The omap2 and omap3 are leagues apart when it comes to media	00:15
Andy80	lcuk2: now it works... I simply was using python instead of python2.5	00:15
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Andy80	another question: what's wrong if I'm not able to connect to internet from inside the Maemo running on Xephyr?	00:16
milhouse	GAN: 640x480 - the new device?	00:16
lcuk2	i dunno, i dont design on fake incomplete hardware	00:16
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Stskeeps	Andy80: probably resolv.conf not right	00:16
GeneralAntilles	milhouse, OMAP3	00:16
lcuk2	its a touch device, i write touch software, im not going to use a mouse to test it	00:17
GeneralAntilles	Two framebuffers, the main one is 1024x768, the secondary is 640x480	00:17
Andy80	Stskeeps: but.... for example wget from Scratchbox command line works fine	00:17
milhouse	GAN: What would be better, of course, would be 720p but that would require another socket of some kind on the device.	00:17
GeneralAntilles	and another controller.	00:17
zakkm	lol	00:17
milhouse	GAN: Can the OMAP3 output 720p ?	00:17
JamieBennett	milhouse: yes	00:17
GeneralAntilles	1024x768 on the primary framebuffer	00:17
zakkm	720p .. huge filesize, how big are your SD cards? :P	00:17
GeneralAntilles	So, no.	00:17
lcuk2	zakkm, compression and networks	00:18
GeneralAntilles	Although if you get deep enough hooks you could probably play with the timings to squeeze a little more out	00:18
GeneralAntilles	but, uh, no guarantees.	00:18
milhouse	zakkm: 8gb microSD, 16gb SD...	00:18
JamieBennett	generalantilles: 720p is possible on beagle or do you know something I don't	00:18
GeneralAntilles	JamieBennett, display resolution output?	00:18
GeneralAntilles	Not decoding.	00:18
JamieBennett	yup	00:18
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GeneralAntilles	http://groups.google.com/group/beagleboard/browse_thread/thread/fb5b422846e1933d?pli=1	00:19
JamieBennett	maybe wires crossed are we talking black bars?	00:19
milhouse	GAN: 720p video out would be icing on the cake but not essential (for me) - as long as the primary video is spot on and not flawed by poor design that's all that matters to me.	00:19
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milhouse	GAN: I'm sure the IVA/IVA2 in OMAP2 is capable of decoding DVD resolution, would have expected the OMAP3 to have pushed that to at least 720p	00:20
GeneralAntilles	Anyway, there's basically no chance of Nokia wiring it up that way.	00:20
GeneralAntilles	An HDMI port simply wouldn't fit on the device	00:20
* JamieBennett is reading		00:20
GeneralAntilles	and it's totally not in their target audience's use-case.	00:20
GeneralAntilles	milhouse, I don't think anybody has utilized the DSP yet for video decoding.	00:20
milhouse	GAN: There must be some sort of "miniHDMI" coming - what do Archos do?	00:20
GeneralAntilles	NEON is just SIMD on the Cortex.	00:20
GeneralAntilles	milhouse, bigger device, proprietary docking port.	00:21
JamieBennett	or Displayport (me ducks!)	00:21
milhouse	I'd actually like it to have a docking port - easy charging + video in one dock would work for me.	00:21
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milhouse	Maybe even replicate USB, keyboard/mouse etc.... my ideal would be for these things to become desktop substitutes	00:22
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GeneralAntilles	I still can't get over this http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=242727	00:22
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milhouse	Fair answer - needs a shave though	00:23
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JamieBennett	GeneralAntilles: As with all software, the larger the project the more bugs	00:23
GeneralAntilles	I should update my avatar	00:24
milhouse	:)	00:24
JamieBennett	GeneralAntilles: It should be number of bigs/number of users	00:25
JamieBennett	bugs :)	00:25
GeneralAntilles	JamieBennett, that doesn't tell you anything, either.	00:25
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GeneralAntilles	Only the bug-filing proclivity of a particular product's userbase.	00:26
GeneralAntilles	OK, new avatar uploaded	00:26
JamieBennett	GeneralAntilles: So the answer is ...	00:26
GeneralAntilles	Let's see if the change in demeanor changes people's responses to me. :D	00:26
milhouse	that's so much better! ;)	00:26
GeneralAntilles	Ahaha	00:26
GeneralAntilles	That cracks me up.	00:26
milhouse	the scowl has been banished!	00:27
GeneralAntilles	Scowl -> goofy grin	00:27
GeneralAntilles	I look like such a wanker	00:27
lcuk2	omg gen, you finally got laid then i see	00:27
JamieBennett	still need a shave ;)	00:27
GeneralAntilles	Ahahaha	00:27
GeneralAntilles	JamieBennett, I was considering it a few weeks ago	00:27
GeneralAntilles	but then winter came on.	00:27
JamieBennett	:)	00:27
GeneralAntilles	Imma start growing it out into a scarf in preparation for next year. ;)	00:28
zakkm	Hi , sorry, before i bought my nokia n800, i saw an app that looked identical and functioned just like a TI-83? calculator, but i couldnt find the program again since	00:28
zakkm	anyone happen to know and willing to share the name	00:28
GeneralAntilles	Oh, man, lcuk2, I'm still laughing.	00:28
lcuk2	zakkm, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=229611 try this	00:29
* GeneralAntilles hits the back button to compare.		00:29
milhouse	zakkm: there was an HP calculator app	00:29
zakkm	yeah i think thats it	00:29
* JamieBennett thinks lcuk2 has a 'condition' ;)		00:29
lcuk2	yeah, writers block	00:29
milhouse	try googleing for "maemo hp calculator" should be the first few hits	00:29
milhouse	dunno if any links actually work, mind	00:29
zakkm	thats a free42	00:30
milhouse	here's the link for OS2008: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/free42/	00:30
GeneralAntilles	If I get interesting results from this I may have to write up a paper on an avatars demeanor's effect on user reactions in internet forums.	00:30
zakkm	looking for a TI-83/84	00:30
milhouse	zakkm: ah right, sorry	00:30
zakkm	oh there we go lol	00:31
zakkm	found it	00:31
GeneralAntilles	It was slow last time I tried it. :(	00:31
zakkm	http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/tiemu2/	00:31
* GeneralAntilles likes his TI-89		00:31
zakkm	oh Ti89/92	00:31
zakkm	its slow?	00:31
andre__	i can offer a TI-92	00:31
lcuk2	any advance on ti-92, going once	00:32
lcuk2	going twice	00:32
zakkm	$1!	00:32
lcuk2	sold!	00:32
andre__	whoops	00:32
lcuk2	ok thats as cheesy as GeneralAntilles's grin	00:32
GeneralAntilles	We had so much fun with the TI-83 in middle school	00:32
GeneralAntilles	Somebody reprogrammed a monster fighting game with the names of all of the teachers one time. <_<	00:33
lcuk2	http://www.apple.com/trailers/paramount/startrek/	00:33
Juhaz	puny toys, go HP-48!	00:33
zakkm	oh, how come i cant get rtcomm ?	00:33
zakkm	missing dependencies	00:33
zakkm	is there a rtcomm repository or something	00:34
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JamieBennett	why does canola clean up also remove carman?	00:35
GeneralAntilles	Does it?	00:35
andre__	zakkm, yepp: Collabora	00:35
GeneralAntilles	Wishes Nokia would get the rtcomm stuff into Extras-devel already.	00:35
andre__	http://pacakges.collabora.co.uk/maemo	00:35
milhouse	I had one of these when I was at school! :) http://www.datamath.org/Related/Casio/fx-7000G.htm	00:35
andre__	remove the typo first, though	00:35
JamieBennett	installed carman, installed canola clean up, ran canola cleanup, installed canola, no carman	00:36
* zakkm wonders if hes the only one here still in school ( highschool that is )		00:36
lcuk2	omg + star trek trailer	00:36
jagernot	once again i appear with my audio synth for your perusal...features in this version: stereo rhythms...please check out http://www.poojyum.com/boxar_1.0-1_armel.deb	00:36
zakkm	andre_ : link didnt work ;p	00:36
jagernot	your comments welcome.	00:36
andre__	zakkm, depends on definition of school... i'm still a university student :-P	00:36
GeneralAntilles	JamieBennett, maybe when it purges EFL?	00:36
qwerty12_N800	zakkm, nope ;). but it's my last year anyway	00:36
GeneralAntilles	jagernot, Extras-devel! :D	00:37
JamieBennett	maybe? Something common is there that completely blasts carman	00:37
jagernot	gen: how do i add to extras devel?	00:37
GeneralAntilles	JamieBennett, maybe harass etrunko.	00:37
GeneralAntilles	~upload-extras	00:37
infobot	rumour has it, upload-extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras	00:37
GeneralAntilles	jagernot ^	00:37
JamieBennett	GeneralAntilles: Done	00:37
jagernot	ok will do that..if anybody could check it out (including you General) that will be nice :)	00:38
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* andre__ pets infobot		00:39
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zakkm	whats the difference between " nokia chat " and rtcomm?	00:44
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Sargun	Is there any way to put my device in host mode USB and charge at the same time? Without modifying cables.	00:46
GeneralAntilles	Um?	00:47
GeneralAntilles	Plug in the charger and an OTG adaptor?	00:47
milhouse	Yes, no USB charging on N8x0	00:48
Sargun	Err	00:48
Sargun	This is not for an N810 :-/	00:48
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milhouse	Speaking of which, I hate microUSB charging - I do hope Nokia don't go the route of charging only through a microUSB port on the next device and then hide the port behind a kick stand...	00:48
milhouse	Sargun: Sorry, thought you were zakkm, I misread. What device is it?	00:49
Sargun	OpenMoko.	00:49
Sargun	FR.	00:49
Sargun	I need to pump power into the miniUSB-b port.	00:49
Sargun	and also use it in host mode	00:49
milhouse	I've no idea, sorry	00:49
GeneralAntilles	Sargun, an OpenMoko channel would probably know better. :)	00:50
milhouse	Wouldn't you be better iff asking on the openmoko channel?	00:50
Sargun	It's a hardware question...	00:50
milhouse	s/iff/off/	00:50
infobot	milhouse meant: Wouldn't you be better off asking on the openmoko channel?	00:50
zakkm	whats oepnmoko?	00:50
milhouse	open source hardware/software phone	00:50
milhouse	mobile phone	00:50
zakkm	what does it have to do with maemo?	00:50
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qwerty12_N800	And I think the openmoko guys know more about the hardware then us	00:51
milhouse	zakkm: nothing :)	00:51
Sargun	Well, they're busy	00:51
Sargun	you guys are just bright	00:51
milhouse	you're new around here, huh?	00:51
milhouse	;)	00:51
zakkm	not quite, but i have a bad memory so that plays it role	00:52
milhouse	zakkm: I meant Sargun, he doesn't know us very well (joke)	00:52
Sargun	heh	00:52
zakkm	oh sorry	00:53
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Stskeeps	the weirdest things laying about in svn .. "delicious-applet	00:54
GeneralAntilles	In stage?	00:54
Stskeeps	yeah	00:54
GeneralAntilles	Weird	00:54
GeneralAntilles	Compile it? :D	00:54
Stskeeps	"Example statusbar applet for storing bookmarks in del.icio.us	00:54
qwerty12_N800	yerga's already done it	00:54
GeneralAntilles	Where is yerga?	00:54
GeneralAntilles	I need to ask him a question. . . .	00:54
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zakkm	GeneralAntilles: wouldnt it be nice if that worked... hmm i need ___ .. BAM appears	00:58
GeneralAntilles	You don't even know.	00:58
GeneralAntilles	Although it has happened before.	00:59
zakkm	i was thinking more reality, not irc	00:59
GeneralAntilles	Well, I never need people in reality. :P	01:00
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Mouser810	Has anyone else had problems with their headphone jack? My device acts like headphones are always connected which overrides bluetooth audio and internal speakers.	01:06
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* Stskeeps makes a mental note internal and external hildon isn't synchronized		01:14
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test	Hi everybody, I've got a simple question.... I've installed maemo SDK 4.1.1 DIABLO in scratchbox on my ubunto Hardy Heron system. It works fine.	01:56
test	I've started OS2008 hildon in my Xephyr window with af_sb_init and it loads ok.... but there's one problem : I can't access internet... nor can I run a browser session... should that be possible from scratchbox ?? thanx	01:57
Andy80	hi test	02:00
Andy80	I've a similar problem	02:00
Andy80	can you test if you can access internet from scratchbox, just using wget for example?	02:00
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test	sorry, I was eatin'.... ok, Andy80... yep, I've got internet access from Scratchbox (wget,...)	02:06
Andy80	same problem then!	02:06
Andy80	:(	02:06
Andy80	and I still don't know how to solve it	02:06
test	Andy80: it's internet access from OS2008 (after af_sb_init start) that doesn't kick in.. I don't know why	02:06
Andy80	we should post on maemo-developers mailing list	02:07
GeneralAntilles	It's depressing when filing a new bug doesn't actually send an email to anybody @nokia. . . .	02:09
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Andy80	GeneralAntilles: well... if you post it on maemo-developers ML they should read it.... I think...	02:12
GeneralAntilles	Andy80, maemo-developers isn't the place to file bugs.	02:12
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GeneralAntilles	That's what bugs.maemo.org is for.	02:12
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Andy80	GeneralAntilles: yes, but.... fill it on bugs.maemo.org, then announce it on mailing list...	02:13
GeneralAntilles	Andy80, it doesn't work like that. :)	02:14
GeneralAntilles	That's what we like to call spam. ;)	02:14
Andy80	it's not spam.... if you submit a bug it's because you want to improve Maemo... I think it's related to the mailing list too....	02:15
GeneralAntilles	It really isn't	02:15
GeneralAntilles	The way it should work, is the appropriate Nokia engineers and product managers should be watching the bugzilla products and components they own and actioning bugs as appropriate	02:15
GeneralAntilles	but they aren't.	02:15
Andy80	well, this is a clear "hole" in the maemo management.... you could blog about this and ask Nokia people to do something :)	02:17
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GeneralAntilles	Yes, well, it's been being "worked on" since 2006 https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=630	02:17
Andy80	I'll vote for the bug	02:24
andre__	either vote or blame me :-P	02:26
Stskeeps	death to xephyr based emulation!	02:27
* Stskeeps chants		02:27
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GeneralAntilles	andre__ -> /msg	02:34
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Andy80	GeneralAntilles: good email :)	02:41
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test	Hi everybody, I'd like to know if anyone has ever gotten internet connectivity to work in the sb_af_init.sh UI from scratchbox ?	04:00
timeless	hello world	04:01
timeless	anyone here have time to 'play'?	04:01
* timeless is looking for something to break		04:01
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fred23	Hi everybody, I'd like to know if anyone has ever gotten internet connectivity to work in the sb_af_init.sh UI from scratchbox ?	04:05
fred23	I've installed Maemo SDK 4.1.1 DIABLO in scratchbox and everything seem to work fine... the only problem is : When I start the emulated version of OS2008 (X86 target) on the Xephyr server, with sb_af_init, I cannot access the web, nor can I start a new browse page with the browser... what's wrong ?	04:07
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`0660	fred23, i always had trouble with /etc/nsswitch.conf in scratchbox environment	04:28
`0660	http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-users/2007-February/014351.html	04:29
`0660	i'm not sure if it still applies	04:29
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zetheroo	anyone having any success with getting Mapper to talk?	07:02
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zetheroo	anyone around?	07:30
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r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: you around?	07:34
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zetheroo	anyone here having any luck getting Maemo Mapper to talk?	09:35
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zetheroo	anyone here having any luck getting Maemo Mapper to talk?	10:29
aquatix	morning all	10:34
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lslarry	re. ppl, can you tell me which application is usable for phonebook sync (like gnokii front-end)?	10:51
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Jaffa	Morning, all	10:53
zetheroo	anyone here having any luck getting Maemo Mapper to talk?	10:55
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zetheroo	so far I have only heard from one person who got flite to work in Mapper ...	11:00
zetheroo	and that was with an N710	11:00
zetheroo	I also tried getting it working on my N800 ... but nothing doing	11:02
zetheroo	I also cannot find any documentation or helpful information on how to get it working	11:02
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Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: Can i scp libgpsbt and libgpsmgr to trac.tspre.org?	11:12
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Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: sorry, it's closed source and non-redistributable so we can't touch it for now	11:17
Stskeeps	as we're targetting a "free" generic platform	11:17
Stskeeps	it's alright though	11:17
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Meiz_n810	Maemo wiki says target is not to make completely-open-source os. But is it illegal to add non-free packages to repo?	11:19
Stskeeps	well	11:20
Stskeeps	no, maemo reconstructed wiki page doesn't say it should be completely open source - it says the base system should be free, and vendors can add value-adding services/apps/etc on top	11:20
Stskeeps	and hardware support	11:20
Stskeeps	and yes, it would be illegal for us to redistribute nokia packages	11:21
Stskeeps	as in, the closed source ones	11:21
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suihkulokki	https://wiki.ubuntu.com/ARM	11:21
Stskeeps	looks	11:21
Meiz_n810	i said: maemo wiki says target is NOT to make completely-open-source...	11:22
Stskeeps	yeah	11:22
Meiz_n810	but if we do not redistribute, only use =P	11:22
Stskeeps	we can do it in our own internal hacks but as soon as it leaves your tablet :P	11:23
Stskeeps	"The primary differences are 1) Ubuntu uses "armel" as the architecture where mojo uses "arm" "	11:23
Stskeeps	oh thank god	11:23
Meiz_n810	yep	11:24
Stskeeps	and putting it in a repo constitutes redistribution, so :P that's why we have the local non-free repo on your tablet	11:24
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Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: but what libgpsbt will be is that it's contrary to ideas of a generic platform a pervasive device likes GPS'es are not standardized on the platform :P	11:26
Meiz_n810	ok	11:27
Stskeeps	and gah @ hildon-control panel and launchers :P	11:28
Meiz_n810	is dpkg-repack and then aupping in the repo illega redistributing	11:28
Stskeeps	yup	11:28
Meiz_n810	ok	11:28
Stskeeps	basically rule of thumb i use is, if there's a LICENSE or COPYING file indicating a gpl / bsd / etc license, and it's actually possible to get the source code without agreeing to a license agreement, it's good enough for now :P	11:29
RST38h	Wait, wait, once it is GPL, you can actually put more conditions on getting the code???	11:30
* RST38h can think of some REALLY GOOD conditions		11:30
Stskeeps	RST38h: no, i've been in a fight with debian-legal on that, not again	11:31
Stskeeps	:P	11:31
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: recompiling control panel with nolauncher	11:32
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Meiz_n810	good	11:32
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* Stskeeps attempts building advanced-backlight		11:42
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Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: hildon-control-panel deps on osso-app-killer	12:00
Stskeeps	yeah, i'll get to that	12:01
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Meiz_n810	Advanced-backlight installed with no prob, will it start automatically with hildon?	12:03
Stskeeps	no clue, you may have to select it in applets	12:03
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Meiz_n810	i'll try :)	12:05
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Stskeeps	morning lcuk	12:11
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Stskeeps	http://www.dilbert.com/fast/2007-08-03/	12:14
GAN800	Ha	12:15
Stskeeps	melmoth: try now	12:17
Stskeeps	err	12:17
Stskeeps	wheredidmeizgo	12:17
Stskeeps	:P	12:17
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* Stskeeps goes hunt extras for apps that would be a good example that what we have is actually a maemo platform..		12:20
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GAN800	Carman?	12:26
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GAN800	Vagalume, Maemo Mapper	12:27
Stskeeps	Maemo Mapper is (sadly) out of the question, it depends on libgpsbt and libgpsmgr	12:28
Stskeeps	which are closed source	12:28
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RST38h	Carman is not in Extras	12:28
GAN800	Have you stuck them on the closed source page?	12:28
GAN800	RST38h, yes it is.	12:29
Stskeeps	GAN800: yeah, it's there already	12:29
* RST38h checks		12:29
Stskeeps	GAN800: the irony is libgpsbt used to be open source :P	12:29
GAN800	I'd've said Canola, but it's not open yet	12:29
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Stskeeps	yeah.. and we don't have python hildon just yert	12:30
GAN800	Vagalume should be really easy	12:30
Stskeeps	yeah, need to compile dsp stuff first	12:31
Stskeeps	then it seems trivial	12:31
Stskeeps	or something.. hmm	12:32
GAN800	FBReadee	12:32
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RST38h	Yaaaaa!	12:32
RST38h	Carman is in the Extras!	12:32
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GAN800	Coerce RST38h into compiling VGBA for it. :p	12:34
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Stskeeps	hehe.. it'd run like hell since our X isn't well performing cos it doesn't do framebuffer updates yet	12:36
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* GAN800 steps on more landmines. :p		12:36
zetheroo	anyone here having any luck getting Maemo Mapper to talk?	12:37
Stskeeps	zetheroo: that's the fourth time you ask :P try on ITT, i'm sure there's some	12:37
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RST38h	zetheroo: Theoretocally you only need to install Flite	12:38
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RST38h	Practically, neither speech nor navigation are usable without bending over	12:38
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zetheroo	RST38h: I have flight installed on both my N810 and N800	12:42
zetheroo	RST38h: flite	12:42
zetheroo	Stskeeps: ITT?	12:43
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user__	Stskeeps: have you found a way to make icons work?	12:48
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Meiz_n810	Control panel is not in the app-menu, if fact there is nothing.. Does it have something to do with icons?	12:50
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Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: not yet, waiting for johnx	12:58
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=1805#c9	12:58
Jaffa	Blimey #303 (24h clock) has been marked as "fixed"	12:59
GAN800	X-Fade, 'policy follows tools' is what they said	13:00
lcuk	yes, it now correctly shows time in cubic 36 hour spans	13:00
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GAN800	So the policy update is dependent on h-a-m getting updated. . . .	13:00
derf	Jaffa: HOORJ!	13:01
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mik_	hi	13:09
mik_	after updating my n800 to diablo maemo-pan won't work anymore for using the internet connection from my wm6 device	13:10
mik_	anybody knows that problem and has a workaround for me?	13:10
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* Stskeeps ponders idly if fbreader is actually openoffice in disguise		13:12
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Stskeeps	sure as hell is bringing my buildbox to its knees	13:12
GAN800	libz is probably pretty nasty	13:13
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Stskeeps	yeah, zlibrary	13:14
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, think it would help to get the policy people to say something?	13:14
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: About what?	13:15
GeneralAntilles	The category list changes for Diablo.	13:15
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: I guess it all depends on when it shows up in AM and when there is a SSU which includes it?	13:16
GeneralAntilles	Well, it would be unfortunate for the documentation to be wrong for the rest of Diablo's lifespan just because the dates didn't line up by a couple weeks. . . .	13:16
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Well Eero said that he didn't want to change the policy unless there were more additions on that wiki page?	13:17
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X-Fade	But do we really have any other changes that should go in the document?	13:17
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GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, well, Eero said wait for more changes (/me doesn't really know of any important ones), and Juha Koivisto came back with "policy will be updated when the tools are updated"	13:20
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lardman	morning	13:21
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: It seems to me that either we are waiting on the tools or we are blocking ;)	13:21
GeneralAntilles	Well, unless you can round up some more changes. . . .	13:22
* GeneralAntilles makes a note to handle the next issue like this on a public list.		13:22
GeneralAntilles	If it's going to become impossible to change the Diablo documentation after this next update, then it seems like pushing the new list there shouldn't be dependent on the policy changing.	13:23
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: There is no harm in using the new list.	13:23
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: Only benefits.	13:24
GeneralAntilles	Well, Jarmo seems to be saying they're not gonna use the new list if it's not in the policy.	13:24
GeneralAntilles	If only all this had been wrapped up in the spring. ;)	13:25
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: i added advanced-backlight.desktop to both user and system statusbar.conf, and it now starts automatically :) files	13:26
Meiz_n810	files at the end is accident	13:26
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Meiz_n810	gonna try if it works now	13:27
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johnx	Stskeeps, waiting for which package?	13:32
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Stskeeps	johnx: i can't seem to get icons on the install	13:34
bradd	just a quick scratchbox question.. Can I substitute using xnest instead of xephyr?	13:34
Stskeeps	johnx: on hildon	13:34
Meiz_n810	A-B works great!	13:34
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: usual screenshot :P (xwd?)	13:34
Meiz_n810	how can i take scrshot?	13:34
Meiz_n810	with the same comman i start X	13:34
johnx	Stskeeps, h-i-m? h-d? which package?	13:35
Meiz_n810	i'm at school now...	13:35
johnx	bradd, yeah, that would probably work fine	13:35
Stskeeps	johnx: hildon desktop	13:35
Stskeeps	i have hildon-icons installed and all	13:36
johnx	didn't I upload that?	13:36
Stskeeps	i'm confused now :P	13:36
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bradd	johnx, thanks	13:36
* GeneralAntilles notices the Plenware spam has stopped.		13:37
Stskeeps	i have the same problem as the first scrshot you showed me of h-d :P	13:37
johnx	the one from my zaurus? or the one with no icons?	13:37
Stskeeps	the one with no icons	13:38
johnx	aaah, right, one more thing to fix then :)	13:38
Stskeeps	what's the underlying problem then? :P	13:39
johnx	just need to add the path to the icon theme into the gtk theme	13:39
* Stskeeps wasn't able to solve it		13:39
Stskeeps	ah	13:39
johnx	since the names don't match	13:39
johnx	sorry, figured it out and never documented it. oops	13:40
johnx	gtk-icon-theme-name = "hildon"	13:41
Stskeeps	ah	13:41
johnx	add ^that^ somewhere in /usr/share/themes/plankton/gtk-2.0/gtkrc	13:41
Stskeeps	so we need to recompile plankton, k	13:41
johnx	I guess that's reasonable in the short term	13:41
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Meiz_n810	it was all about icons, menu is now full of stuff!	13:49
suihkulokki	johnx: do you have a nicele package plankton?	13:50
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johnx	suihkulokki, well, it seems to work but I think it's just a straight checkout and dpkg-buildpackage from Nokia's svn repo	13:53
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suihkulokki	pkg-maemo is missing it atm	13:53
Stskeeps	plankton is CC 3.0 now i think	13:54
johnx	suihkulokki, oh, thanks for the packaging job for hildon-desktop 2.0.7. hildon-desktop 2.0.19 works fine with that packaging applied to it	13:55
Summeli	I have some path problems in scratchbox: the platform is searchin libs under /target/DIABLO_X86/usr/lib instead of /usr/lib	13:55
Stskeeps	right, i'm off to class	13:57
Stskeeps	fbreader is compiling	13:58
johnx	'later Stskeeps. I'll beat my head against h-i-m again for a while	13:58
Stskeeps	k	13:58
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Meiz_n810	crap quality pic about m-r with a-b: http://picasaweb.google.com/mail.deweb/MaemoReconstructed#5269966649978278514	14:04
Meiz_n810	screen rotation (surprise!) kills xorg	14:04
johnx	heh :)	14:04
johnx	you have a rotation enabled kernel installed?	14:05
johnx	suihkulokki, did you ever take a look at suihkulokki? is it worth using or not?	14:06
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suihkulokki	am I worth using?	14:07
johnx	change that second one to maemo-launcher	14:07
suihkulokki	=)	14:07
* johnx is apparently making random typo's tonight, blames his paste buffer		14:07
suihkulokki	maemo-launcher is usefull when you start getting many hildon apps on your system	14:08
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johnx	back in a couple minutes	14:11
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disco_st1	hi	15:05
disco_st1	s	15:05
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slapin	hi, all!	15:22
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slapin	is there some kernel gurus there?	15:22
slapin	I'd like to ask for directions on tty ldisc changes in kernels >2.6.25	15:22
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slapin	offtopic question, but i was unable to find answers elsewhere. I just need some code sample of ldisc implementation with new kernel	15:23
StsN800	johnx, we need to consider where we base from now ubuntu ports to armel..	15:27
johnx	you mean in terms of the base distro part or the maemo part?	15:28
StsN800	base i guess	15:29
StsN800	in next poc iteration obviously	15:29
StsN800	where we get beagleboards building for us	15:29
StsN800	ubuntu arm targets armv5-vfp	15:30
johnx	grr...that's really not the most useful thing ever	15:30
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StsN800	mm?	15:31
johnx	well it's not optimized completely for the n8x0 or beagle/pandora	15:31
johnx	but it also won't run on the zaurus	15:31
StsN800	true	15:32
StsN800	mojo has the benefit it targets multiple, but has arch arm	15:33
StsN800	and is sponsored by nokia	15:33
johnx	I wonder a little about the future of mojo	15:34
StsN800	yeah..	15:34
StsN800	but if maemo-r goes in full swing there would be benefit to atleast armv6 and non-vfp	15:35
StsN800	while ubuntu takes care of armv5el-vfp	15:35
suihkulokki	StsN800, ubuntu doesn't target armv5-vfp	15:35
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johnx	ah, what are they targetting? plain armv5?	15:35
StsN800	hm, thought i just read that	15:36
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suihkulokki	it's armv5t with armv6/armv7/vfp/neon optimized libraries where there is significant performance gain.	15:36
StsN800	http://blog.canonical.com/?p=74	15:36
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suihkulokki	you can allways join #ubuntu-arm and ask :)	15:37
StsN800	is there size benefits to v5 vs v6 for instance?	15:38
StsN800	i just might	15:38
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johnx	well if you avoid vfp you can use thumb, IIRC	15:38
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StsN800	anyway, when we've been through this first iteration we will set a proper builder up so we can rebase easily	15:40
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johnx	is there a beagleboard to do it full time or will it be on qemu somewhere?	15:40
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StsN800	yeah, i'll set up connected at my work	15:42
johnx	woo!	15:42
StsN800	2x	15:42
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StsN800	we'd probably see i386 builds too though	15:43
StsN800	as we have a atom board to target	15:44
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johnx	interesting. looks like ubuntu uses matchbox-keyboard in ubuntu-mobile	15:47
StsN800	mm	15:49
StsN800	the question is really kbd icon vs click in text field	15:50
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* StsN801 wonders idly if his city is being evacuated or something		16:44
disco_stu	StsN801: why ?	16:44
StsN801	never seen that amount of passengers and cars.. or ive managed to steer clear of the real rush hour the 5 years ive lived here..	16:45
StsN801	:P	16:45
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disco_stu	where u live ?	16:46
StsN801	.dk	16:47
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disco_stu	whic means..	16:48
disco_stu	s/whic/wich/	16:48
infobot	disco_stu meant: wich means..	16:48
StsN801	denmark	16:48
StsN801	:)	16:48
disco_stu	nice place for sure	16:48
matrx	anyone experiencing file manager no longer detecting smb shares on an n810? still works on the n800, both running diablo	16:49
disco_stu	matrx: i experienced that for some time.. but then i flashed to diablo and now seems to work	16:50
disco_stu	other thing is, if the share is password protected filemanager wont show it	16:51
matrx	yeah, looks like it's reflash time	16:52
matrx	this will be my first reflash since diablo was released, i was getting spoiled	16:53
disco_stu	matrx: maybe it is not neccesary.. it maybe something within your network	16:53
disco_stu	s/maybe/may be/	16:54
infobot	disco_stu meant: matrx: may be it is not neccesary.. it maybe something within your network	16:54
disco_stu	shit	16:54
matrx	naw, it still works on the n800 running diablo	16:54
disco_stu	certainly..	16:55
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bobbytek	Anyone familiar with Nokia N810 Mozilla browser?	17:03
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bobbytek	I'm trying to get a 3gp video playing inside the browser. Is that possible?	17:05
johnx	probably not	17:05
johnx	can you just download it?	17:05
bobbytek	well, we have a web page we are trying to display in the browser	17:06
bobbytek	We were hoping that this could embed a 3gp video	17:06
bobbytek	Right now it just opens with the media player	17:06
johnx	I think that's the best you can do	17:06
johnx	you could embed flash video but it would be slow	17:06
bobbytek	Well, embedding flash does work	17:06
bobbytek	Are you familiar with the device?	17:07
johnx	I have one, yes	17:07
bobbytek	Can't find much in the way of documentation	17:07
bobbytek	Just http://nokia.us/A4686332	17:07
bobbytek	I notice the browser supports "components"	17:08
johnx	it comes with an instruction manual I think, and other than that there is wiki.maemo.org for advanced DIY type stuff	17:08
bobbytek	Don't know where I can get these components, and how to install them though :/	17:08
johnx	yes, it supports normal netscape-stype plugins I believe	17:08
johnx	s/type/tyle/	17:08
infobot	johnx meant: yes, it supports normal netscape-style plugins I believe	17:08
bobbytek	Hmm, you think there might be a plugin for 3gp?	17:08
johnx	probably not. maybe it would be possible to port mplayer-plugin?	17:09
bobbytek	hmm, I'm not that saavy :)	17:09
johnx	you could maybe find someone to do it for you :)	17:11
bobbytek	"He also thinks that Fennec will be unique because Firefox developers will be able to build add-ons for it."	17:12
bobbytek	http://www.pcadvisor.co.uk/news/index.cfm?newsid=105865	17:12
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bobbytek	well, maybe if it comes to that :)	17:12
johnx	well, add-on is kind of a different thing than plug-in, but microb (the included browser) supports both	17:13
johnx	compoents = plugins	17:13
johnx	addons = extensions	17:13
bobbytek	I thought it was fennec?	17:13
bobbytek	ah	17:13
johnx	the included browser is "microb"	17:13
bobbytek	oh, that article seemed to suggest otherwise	17:13
johnx	also using the mozilla engine, but with a UI from Nokia	17:13
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johnx	right, there's two "mozilla-based" browsers	17:14
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johnx	for the n8x0	17:14
johnx	the one included on the device is the mozilla rendering engine (gecko) with a Nokia UI	17:14
johnx	fennec is now available for the device, which is gecko with a customized UI from Mozilla	17:15
bobbytek	so the n810 is mircob not fennec?	17:15
johnx	well you could run either one	17:15
johnx	microb is what comes pre-installed	17:15
bobbytek	I'm not sure which one I have :)	17:15
bobbytek	oh, okay	17:15
johnx	do you remember installing fennec? if not then you don't have it	17:16
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bobbytek	I have only looked at one this morning when my boss dropped it on my desk :)	17:16
bobbytek	"most Firefox plugins require porting and repackaging before they can be used with MicroB"	17:17
bobbytek	sadness	17:17
johnx	might not be too bad	17:17
bobbytek	well, I might have to yet	17:17
bobbytek	Thanks for your help johnx :)	17:17
bobbytek	Much appreciated	17:17
johnx	sure	17:17
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bradd	is /scratchbox/users/me/scratchbox supposed to be a link?	17:23
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bradd	/scratchbox/login is failing on 'if [ ! -d $SANDBOX/scratchbox/tools/bin ];'. my /scratchbox/users/bradd/scratchbox is an empty directory	17:25
mgedmin	bradd: it's supposed to be a directory	17:26
mgedmin	where /scratchbox is bind-mounted so it's visible inside the chroot	17:26
bradd	oh. I made my /scratchbox a symlink.. this is a problem i take it?	17:27
mgedmin	could be	17:27
mgedmin	I've no idea how that impacts mount --bind /scratchbox /scratchbox/users/me/scratchbox	17:28
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bradd	mgedmin, when I do the bind outside of the chroot, it seems to bind correctly	17:33
mgedmin	then it shouldn't be a problem	17:33
bradd	am I forgetting to start something else? after a fresh reboot I should just '/scratchbox/login' correct?	17:33
mgedmin	IIRC there's a scratchbox init.d script somewhere in /etc/init.d/	17:34
mgedmin	that should be started	17:34
mgedmin	if not, you may need to manually do 'sudo sbox_ctl start' once after boot	17:34
bradd	mgedmin, ok, that works. I'm adding sbox_ctl start to my startup scripts	17:37
bradd	thanks	17:37
* Stskeeps yawns		17:39
Stskeeps	johnx: still beating your head at h-i-m?	17:41
johnx	yup, got it built without maemo-launcher at least thanks to qwerty12	17:42
r2d2rogers	hello Stskeeps	17:43
Stskeeps	lo r2d2rogers	17:44
bradd	could a missing "keybindings.rc" stop hildon-desktop from starting?	17:44
Stskeeps	johnx: alright	17:44
r2d2rogers	I still havn't been able to boot my cloned to MMC maemo since I started playing with deblet	17:44
Stskeeps	was this 770 or n8x0?	17:45
r2d2rogers	is there a way to get more info on the error?	17:45
r2d2rogers	770	17:45
Stskeeps	and OS2006/07HE/08HE?	17:45
r2d2rogers	08HE	17:45
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Stskeeps	can i see your /etc/bootmenu.d/*.item? they should be in initfs	17:45
r2d2rogers	yup be a minute	17:46
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Stskeeps	right now i'm not fiddling much with deblet since we're having some amazing results with a proof of concept of "Maemo Reconstructed"	17:47
Stskeeps	which may pay off to 770s too	17:47
r2d2rogers	I like to hear about that <G>	17:47
r2d2rogers	I did get teh bluetooth working	17:47
Stskeeps	http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed	17:47
* RST38h moos		17:48
Stskeeps	moo, RST38h	17:48
RST38h	qwerty,sts: hello	17:48
qwerty12	hi RST38h	17:48
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r2d2rogers	Stskeeps	17:52
r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: http://pastebin.ca/1260459	17:53
johnx	hallo RST38h :D	17:53
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RST38h	johnx: Heya. Looks like you won't have your wish about dragging plot in SlideRule after all	17:53
r2d2rogers	I know the last line is wrong, Stskeeps, but I was reading forum posts and trying to figure it out	17:53
johnx	RST38h, too difficult?	17:53
RST38h	johnx: I have found how to report motion events (with lcuk's help) but it takes enormous processing resources in GTK	17:54
johnx	really? I wonder how other things are doing it smoothly...	17:54
RST38h	And less expensive mode (offered by GTK+) does not seem to work	17:54
RST38h	johnx: Well, I have to redraw the damn plot...	17:54
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Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: remove _LINUXRC line totally	17:55
johnx	well there's that I guess	17:55
Stskeeps	for the boot menu item	17:55
Stskeeps	for maemo	17:55
RST38h	johnx: And it is not cheap, even partially because I have to do tearing analysis	17:55
RST38h	johnx: I.e. 1/x gets torn at x=0	17:55
r2d2rogers	Stskeeps: ok, done	17:56
r2d2rogers	all else looks right?	17:56
Stskeeps	r2d2rogers: and then refresh_bootmenu.d i guess	17:56
r2d2rogers	k	17:56
Stskeeps	yeah, decently	17:56
r2d2rogers	I gues it has to be something on the cloned mmc then	17:56
r2d2rogers	will dig there	17:56
Stskeeps	hm?	17:57
Stskeeps	well if you had linuxrc line at all, it definately wouldn't boot :)	17:57
r2d2rogers	right	17:57
r2d2rogers	it doesn't work either way	17:57
Stskeeps	did you update it in initfs?	17:57
r2d2rogers	so the issue seems to be with the OS on the MMC	17:57
r2d2rogers	I have before and I will again after I look at the stuff on the card	17:58
Stskeeps	k	17:58
r2d2rogers	thanks for your help	17:59
Stskeeps	np	18:00
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* Stskeeps ponders why he now he has -some- icons		18:01
johnx	because sdk-icons isn't complete?	18:02
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Stskeeps	well	18:02
Stskeeps	i'm not getting your >> for instance	18:03
suihkulokki	iirc you need a mix of hicolor and sdk icons	18:03
Stskeeps	any of the dists that has done the hard work? :P	18:03
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GeneralAntilles	Alright, I think karma is officially stuck again. <_<	18:08
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RST38h	karma whore!	18:11
RST38h	BTW, I sitll do not see itt thanks section in my profile	18:12
RST38h	It is counted into the total, seemingly, but not shown	18:12
GeneralAntilles	I'm missing mediawiki edits.	18:12
RST38h	It is random - a week ago I missed other sections as well	18:12
Stskeeps	heh, funny about the resemblance between tablets and star trek PADDs.. :P	18:13
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Stskeeps	n900 will probably be released at same time as the new star trek movie.. that would be cheesy	18:14
* RST38h thinks StarTrek pad is what we will end up with anyway		18:14
GeneralAntilles	December?	18:14
Stskeeps	true, a bit too early	18:14
RST38h	So why wriggle? :)	18:14
Stskeeps	RST38h: yeah.. that's my vision of tablets too really	18:14
RST38h	The UI may end up being a bit different but not by much	18:15
Stskeeps	we have LCARS already.. :P	18:15
RST38h	I will only be satisfied when we get real deathrays though	18:15
Stskeeps	i mean .. http://memory-alpha.org/en/wiki/Image:Sarah_Sisko_reconstruction.jpg	18:15
Stskeeps	:P	18:15
Stskeeps	which reminds me i should bury myself in one of the star trek series again sometime	18:16
* RST38h prefers Dr Who		18:16
johnx	gah, I always thought the PADDs looked horribly unusable	18:16
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RST38h	johnx: They have been designed by professional ergonomics people though	18:17
johnx	professional just means they get paid	18:17
mgedmin	if I hold that thing with both hands, what do I use to manipulate things displayed on it?	18:17
mgedmin	where's the integrated kickstand?	18:17
RST38h	mgedmin: Do you REALLY want this question answered?	18:17
RST38h	Well, you are probably supposed to place it into a console niche and use it there	18:18
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GeneralAntilles	I always found it funny that they insisted on passing the things around like paper reports	18:18
GeneralAntilles	rather than having a personal unit that has access to all data.	18:18
mavhc	I think that's because it's a tv show, from the 80s	18:18
mavhc	or 60s	18:19
RST38h	General: Remember, that was pre networking	18:19
GeneralAntilles	1990s?	18:19
johnx	late 80s	18:19
RST38h	PADD appeared in the Next Generation	18:19
RST38h	That is late 80s. RS232, at best coaxial Ethernet	18:19
RST38h	No wireless. Maybe some inductive technology	18:20
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johnx	when were the first satellite phones again?	18:20
RST38h	about the same time but it is not the same thing	18:20
mavhc	the display appeared in TNG, the device was in tos	18:20
RST38h	Soviet buses did have inductive communications (with little loop antennas installed at the bus stops) around that time	18:21
RST38h	But I do not think this stuff was mainstream anywhere in the world	18:21
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dmsuperman	So any news on a new n800/n810 successor yet?	18:23
GeneralAntilles	dmsuperman, OMAP3430, HD camera, HSPA	18:24
* qwerty12 says a massive thank you to "rafi"		18:24
dmsuperman	GeneralAntilles: I meant like an n900. I like the nokia line	18:24
GeneralAntilles	Yes, like I said: OMAP3430, HD camera, HSPA	18:25
GeneralAntilles	That's the extent of what we know	18:25
dmsuperman	Oh I see	18:25
GeneralAntilles	current speculations says it'll be released around Summer 2009	18:25
GeneralAntilles	based on the release schedule for the alpha and beta SDK	18:25
dmsuperman	Mmmmmm	18:26
johnx	infobot, n900 is OMAP3430, HD camera, HSPA, Maemo 5 (Fremantle), probably Summer 2009 (or later)	18:26
infobot	johnx: okay	18:26
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* Stskeeps wonders who else is marked as lead users at nokia since lcuk was on the list for a n900 :P		18:28
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* Stskeeps continues fighting plankton		18:30
Stskeeps	(which is about just as fun irl as it is on tablets.)	18:33
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johnx	ah the horrible plankton wars of 1934	18:36
qwerty12	Plankton's ugly :P	18:37
lardman	Plankton vs Barton & Beebe?	18:37
hahlobit	is it sure that n900 comes out?	18:37
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johnx	hahlobit, we know nokia is making something that will run maemo but isn't a phone. they haven't said anything else	18:38
johnx	"n900" is just what people outside nokia call it	18:38
hahlobit	ok	18:38
X-Fade	johnx: And it isn't an internet tablet either ;)	18:39
johnx	right, saw that much from ITT	18:39
hahlobit	has these tablets sell well?	18:39
johnx	your marketing guy is realyl spilling the beans :P	18:39
Stskeeps	i guess he's real, but he's quite open mouthed	18:40
* qwerty12 aint complaining		18:40
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, that's Quim's boss.	18:40
hahlobit	they pulled away ngage even many people liked it	18:40
Stskeeps	oh boy	18:40
X-Fade	He knows what he is talking about, be sure about that ;)	18:41
johnx	yeah, what will all the side-talkers do now?	18:41
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: i guess that means less rumours :(	18:41
Stskeeps	and more facts.. rumours are more fun	18:41
Stskeeps	:P	18:41
qwerty12	hahlobit, N-gage lives on in the N-gage platform that runs on normal looking phones :P	18:41
johnx	jeez that thing was hideous	18:42
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, think it'll be reasonable to mothball osv-c in favor of m-r in the medium-term?	18:42
qwerty12	johnx, mine lives in pieces :P	18:42
johnx	define medium term?	18:43
hahlobit	ngagers waited accelerated wifi phone but got nothing	18:43
GeneralAntilles	1-3 months	18:43
GeneralAntilles	osv-c is a semi-positive spin on what sort of amounts to a dead platform	18:43
GeneralAntilles	m-r is a much more positive (if more complicated) new direction	18:44
Stskeeps	"The N-gage also suffered from a memory management issue causing a "White Screen of Death,"" heh	18:44
qwerty12	Stskeeps, really? Mine was overclocked and I never had a WSOD on it :/	18:44
GeneralAntilles	Given limited resources and the inertia that's already behind m-r. ;)	18:44
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hahlobit	ain't here any nokia people who could tell for sure about n900	18:44
johnx	what is osv-c again?	18:44
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: if we can put the idea into more executive language and say we're not directly targeting fremantle, but harmattan maybe	18:44
GeneralAntilles	hahlobit, yeah, if they want to lose their jobs and get sued.	18:45
lardman	hahlobit: I'm sure there are, but they wouldn;t remain employed for long...	18:45
GeneralAntilles	johnx, http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Maemo_Community_distribution	18:45
hahlobit	ok	18:45
Stskeeps	and fremantle as things that needs to be fixed ideally between alpha and beta of fremantle	18:45
GeneralAntilles	johnx, m-r without the platform overhaul.	18:45
johnx	has anyone stepped up to actualyl build it?	18:45
GeneralAntilles	johnx, so far, no.	18:45
johnx	do you think that will change?	18:46
GeneralAntilles	jott sorta dropped off the face of the planet after I started pushing the idea.	18:46
GeneralAntilles	Seems unlikely at this point	18:46
GeneralAntilles	and I'd rather see any effort that might go there put to m-r instead.	18:46
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: i'd like to wait until alpha SDK comes out to start really pushing	18:46
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GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, fair enough.	18:46
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hahlobit	would n900 got 3d accelerating?	18:46
GeneralAntilles	hahlobit, yes.	18:47
johnx	it's easier to stay off the public radar right now	18:47
hahlobit	good	18:47
GeneralAntilles	hahlobit, can decode 720p, too.	18:47
lardman	what's the deal with the n8x0 driver anyway....?	18:47
Stskeeps	johnx: proof of concept yeah	18:47
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: and when we have actual practical and reasonable results or close to, a push is good	18:47
GeneralAntilles	johnx, fair enough, but if you could think on it. ;)	18:47
johnx	GeneralAntilles, looking at osv-c, I'm not sure what it's really trying to solve	18:48
lardman	bbl	18:49
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GeneralAntilles	johnx, Nokia's messed up idea of what the "OS" includes.	18:49
Pavlov	heh	18:49
johnx	GeneralAntilles, so is this going to be a meta package installed after flashing? or a flashable image?	18:49
GeneralAntilles	Basically, an easy and clean way for users to start using all of the neat community hacks and open-source replacements for Nokia's stuff.	18:49
GeneralAntilles	I was planning on a side-grade from osv to osv-c on installed systems.	18:50
GeneralAntilles	It's a lot of what m-r does, but without the platform revamp and much more limited in scope.	18:50
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johnx	in the short-medium term a quick package that replaces/provides osso-software-version-unlocked and depends on less stuff would make some sense I guess	18:52
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: btw what was it sardine was supposed to be? i keep on finding references	18:52
johnx	it was supposed to be beta versions released as source only for people to play with	18:52
johnx	I guess no one picked up so it was canceled?	18:52
Stskeeps	it also seems a little like m-r though, though pushed from nokia's side	18:52
Stskeeps	with build scripts and everything	18:53
johnx	ah, interesting	18:53
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GeneralAntilles	It would've been useful if they had actually used it.	18:53
johnx	well the idea being that anyone could use it	18:53
GeneralAntilles	But it seemed like more of a half-cocked plan from a few Nokians rather than a real concerted effort.	18:53
johnx	I think the problem of an osv-c distro is that no one wants to pour their time into forking further from debuntu	18:54
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: my current plan is that we finish this PoC, take the experiences into a plan to form a platform from	18:54
Stskeeps	and start building stuff and such	18:54
GeneralAntilles	johnx, well, it isn't much more than changing the dependencies on a meta-package and playing with some other packages that'll be useful without osv-c anyway (like bootmenu)	18:54
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Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: and based on the experiences its a hope that we can start getting people more interested from nokia.. but we'll see	18:57
johnx	GeneralAntilles, in that case is there a real tangible advantage to lumping all the OSS pieces together vs just letting people install what they want?	18:57
GeneralAntilles	johnx, makes stuff like rotation and bootmenu a lot easier	18:57
GeneralAntilles	as well as patched Hildon-* stuff	18:57
qwerty12	I could make a jffs2 image but I get the feeling that Nokia will merc me if I distribute it	18:59
johnx	qwerty12, nope. We've got qgil saying they won't	19:00
johnx	want the link? :)	19:00
qwerty12	Yeah please :)	19:00
Stskeeps	does marketing trumph lawyers?	19:00
johnx	the problem being SSUs	19:00
johnx	that's what I wondered	19:00
johnx	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=233546&highlight=sue#post233546	19:01
qwerty12	johnx, how's the quest with hildon input method going? :/	19:01
qwerty12	thanks	19:01
johnx	qwerty12, well your second configure.ac went great. :D	19:01
qwerty12	Cool :)	19:02
johnx	and I think it's coming down to missing libatk somehow O_o	19:02
johnx	or strace thinks so	19:02
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johnx	nm, I read it wrong	19:04
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qwerty12	Stskeeps, is 128 correct erasesize for rootfs too?	19:05
Stskeeps	qwerty12: i'm actually not sure, look what fanoush does?	19:06
qwerty12	fanoush uses 128 for initfs too	19:06
qwerty12	ah well, proc/mtd lists the same number for both rootfs & initfs	19:06
johnx	ah, I do wonder :)	19:07
* Stskeeps reads up on bzr		19:08
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Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: "Maemo Reconstructed" is against trademark policy if we called something Maemo Reconstructed PoC, isn't it?	19:14
GeneralAntilles	Yes	19:14
Stskeeps	k	19:14
johnx	mame-o reconstructed?	19:14
qwerty12	Maeho Reconstructed	19:14
johnx	or is that maim?	19:15
Stskeeps	hah	19:15
Stskeeps	:P	19:15
GeneralAntilles	No Nokia Bullshit	19:15
johnx	"some Nokia bullshit, where we couldn't be arsed to do something better"	19:15
johnx	kinda long though	19:15
qwerty12	\|\/\|@€\|\/\|0 Reconstructed	19:15
Stskeeps	johnx: i'm thinking to use launchpad for next stage	19:16
Stskeeps	(is there any movement on collaboration task?)	19:17
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, not really.	19:17
GeneralAntilles	Feel free to jump in, though.	19:17
Stskeeps	i did	19:17
Stskeeps	:P	19:17
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Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: i think we can use M-R for experimental collaboration too	19:17
derf	pǝʇɔnɹʇsuoɔǝɹ oɯǝɐɯ. See, it's not at the beginning anymore.	19:17
Stskeeps	O_o	19:18
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Stskeeps	hmm @ https://answers.launchpad.net/launchpad/+faq/208	19:20
johnx	will that be a problem? I don't think we can re-distribute closed source stuff anyways	19:21
Stskeeps	yeah	19:22
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Stskeeps	"As this seems to be in the Desktop area and a non-critical issue (hence by	19:26
Stskeeps	default a WONTFIX for Desktop as far as I understand"	19:26
Stskeeps	huh? :P	19:26
johnx	is that your pet bug?	19:26
Stskeeps	yeah	19:27
Stskeeps	atleast eero suggested a sane thing	19:27
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Stskeeps	which i hope gets adapted	19:27
johnx	so Desktop category is a WONTFIX by default?	19:29
johnx	that totally won't lead to priority inflation :/	19:30
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derf	cd	19:33
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Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: http://rafb.net/p/ecrqo529.html review?	19:34
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Stskeeps	johnx: i kinda wondered about that too, but at least it seems like eero saw the sanity of it	19:35
qwerty12	Cool, advanced-backlight seems not to require any extra dependencies ;)	19:36
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, s/It is a/It is an/	19:38
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, drop a space in there after Hildon between Hildon(	19:38
Stskeeps	k	19:39
Stskeeps	ta	19:40
Stskeeps	guillem did a proper answer	19:42
* Stskeeps is satisfied with that answer and that they reflected on it		19:43
thopiekar	Could someone please tell me how to fixx my problem with garage.maemo (SVN) and eclipse? When I use the "new-project" wizard it doesn't show me any folder on my svn... what can I do?	19:48
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Stskeeps	johnx: https://launchpad.net/m-r	19:52
johnx	looks good	19:53
johnx	guess we're all big and official now :)	19:53
GeneralAntilles	bergie, bergie, bergie. . . .	19:54
GeneralAntilles	Capitalizing maemo.org. . . .	19:54
Stskeeps	johnx: i think we'll branch the packages on stage probably	19:56
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johnx	and put some nice orig.tar.gz files into a proper debian source repo?	19:57
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Stskeeps	probably yeah :P	19:58
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Stskeeps	well i'm reading a bit up onthis	19:59
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lcuk	RST38h, have a mouseisbusy flag and only refresh 1/10 of the plot lines when in motion	20:01
lcuk	Stskeeps, i like the fact theres a list	20:01
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Stskeeps	johnx: made an account yet?	20:04
johnx	not yet	20:04
johnx	hang on :P	20:04
Stskeeps	k	20:04
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Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: yours worked so it looked correct and not the black shadow of death?	20:06
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Meiz_n810	what black shadow of death?	20:08
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Meiz_n810	advanced-backlight?	20:08
Stskeeps	the icons problem	20:09
Stskeeps	it looks like johnx's scrshot?	20:09
Meiz_n810	your new plankton theme worked with me	20:09
johnx	I'm finding out more about icons too	20:09
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johnx	will sum it up in a sec	20:09
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Meiz_n810	before installing i dpkg -r hildon-theme-plankton and rm -r /usr/share/themes/plankton	20:10
Stskeeps	k	20:11
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johnx	looks like most (all?) of the icons in hildon-icons (/usr/share/icons/hildon) are actually part of the individual themes on os2008	20:11
Stskeeps	k	20:11
Meiz_n810	have you uploaded more scrshots, johnx?	20:11
johnx	Meiz_n810, nope	20:12
Meiz_n810	ok	20:12
johnx	also, the default gtk theme folder is linked to /usr/share/themes/default	20:12
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johnx	I think there might be some config file or variable pointing to the default theme as well	20:12
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Meiz_n810	matchbox seems to lag	20:12
Meiz_n810	hildon-control-panel appears to be small box in top corner...	20:13
Stskeeps	yeah, i had similar problem	20:14
Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: we arent on the fastest X right now	20:14
Stskeeps	cos of it not doing updates on its own	20:14
Meiz_n810	i remember u-m start-hildon script had more options in matchbox-line...	20:15
hahlobit	does these usb dvb sticks work in maemo if they work in pc-linux?	20:16
qwerty12	hahlobit, if dvb-h : http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=153348	20:17
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hahlobit	ok thanks	20:18
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Stskeeps	flash count, 124mb	20:19
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Stskeeps	johnx: is your home screen black with no window decorations too, and nothing on left side too? is it cos it's missing a background or?	20:25
johnx	nothing on the left side? you mean nothing is visible? or the panel isn't there?	20:26
johnx	also, there should be the menu icon in the middle left	20:26
Stskeeps	yeah, there is	20:26
Meiz_n810	window decorations crash when i open the menu	20:27
Stskeeps	ok, i guess it's just a lack of wallpaper	20:27
johnx	yeah, it's saying it can't find the wallpaper file	20:27
Stskeeps	k	20:27
johnx	I didn't worry about it for now	20:27
Stskeeps	yeah, i just freaked, until i realized it was actually transparent	20:28
Stskeeps	heh, http://blogs.gnome.org/lucasr/files/2007/02/hildon-desktop-scaled.jpg	20:28
Stskeeps	neat photo	20:28
johnx	and there's the "two overlapping windows icon" visible on the middle left, correct?	20:28
Stskeeps	yeah	20:29
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johnx	yeah, that is a really neat look. too bad that version of hildon-desktop apparently got nowhere	20:32
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Stskeeps	heh, ten bucks thats where the inspiration for netbooks came from..	20:40
Stskeeps	:P	20:40
johnx	which is funny because linux netbooks tend to have a much worse UI :)	20:41
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johnx	Xomap installs just fine alongside Xorg, right?	20:42
Meizirkki	Window decorations crash immediately after clicking some app on menu	20:43
Meizirkki	before it they work	20:43
Meizirkki	weird	20:43
Stskeeps	johnx: yeah, think so	20:44
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johnx	nm, I guess all I need is the binary anyways	20:44
GeneralAntilles	johnx, resolution independence is on the roadmap somewhere along the line.	20:47
GeneralAntilles	Though, actually, an m-r release with a hildon-desktop like that for netbooks would be pretty bitchin'.	20:47
johnx	yeah, a little sub-optimial with a mouse present I think	20:48
GeneralAntilles	It looks really classy scaled up like that, though.	20:48
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johnx	it really does. I kinda miss plankton :)	20:48
johnx	I have my own GUI ideas though	20:49
GeneralAntilles	Yeah, the new plankton leaves a lot to be desired. :(	20:49
johnx	I doubt I could convince anyone to code them though	20:49
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: i plan to build for i386 too at work :P	20:49
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GeneralAntilles	I really want a netbook with Hildon now. <_<	20:50
lcuk	the applications running on a desktop/mouse driven system wont feel right will they? what works on a 5cm screen scales up as big and dopey	20:50
GeneralAntilles	Well, scaling to 7" or 9" isn't that much.	20:51
johnx	scaling from touch to mouse is the one that gets you	20:52
GeneralAntilles	Yeah	20:52
lcuk	yeah, kinetics with a mouse is wrong	20:52
GeneralAntilles	But for a touchscreen netbook, maybe. . . .	20:52
johnx	I'll tell you a secret: touchscreen on a notebook form factor kinda sucks	20:52
lcuk	mmmmmm touchscreen slates :)	20:52
GeneralAntilles	johnx, yeah, I'll bet.	20:53
qwerty12	GeneralAntilles, made an half "osv" jffs2 image: http://pastebin.com/d1de3ca7b	20:53
GeneralAntilles	I should say, with one of those interesting, but impossible to build or sell screen rotating designs.	20:53
lcuk	yeah johnx, it feels incomplete and is deffo a for the sake of it	20:53
lcuk	johnx, have you seen the eee desktop touchscreen model	20:53
* GeneralAntilles still thinks touch on a desktop is rather retarded.		20:53
johnx	GeneralAntilles, you mean the fujitsu loox and the zaurus?	20:53
lcuk	its a monitor replacement - all in one jobbie, but includes mouse and keyboard for normal use	20:54
GeneralAntilles	johnx, yeah.	20:54
johnx	lcuk, nope, but I played with a touchsmart the other day	20:54
GeneralAntilles	qwerty12, hit the documentation and bundled media stuff?	20:54
lcuk	http://www.play.com/PC/PCs/-/653/860/-/7728112/Asus-Eee-All-In-One-Touch-Screen-PC-ETP1602-WT-X0010-Intel-Atom-1-6GHz-1GB-160GB-15-6-Wide-Panel-Touch-Screen-Windows-XP-Home-Desktop-PC/Product.html?searchtype=genre	20:54
johnx	wasn't all that bad actually. i can imagine writing notes on it while it's hanging on the wall, or maybe sitting at it like an eazel?	20:54
qwerty12	GeneralAntilles, This is just an N800 testing rootfs image. I could do it but it's kind of pointless at this stage imo#	20:55
johnx	the problem with touch notebooks is two fold: 1) that you're writing on something upright 2) that the screen moves when you poke it	20:55
lcuk	johnx, i want to replace my current monitor with a touch, not for normal use, but as you say for extension activities, my tablet sits between keyboard and monitor and i keep wanting to extend my touch up	20:55
johnx	IMHO 2) is the killer, not 1)	20:55
qwerty12	I'll set up hrw's qemu emulation again tomorrow and test that image	20:55
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johnx	it would be nice to see decent sized slate	20:57
lcuk	yeah johnx :) big brother	20:57
johnx	a convertible tablet is close, but definitely not thin and light	20:58
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johnx	people are really comfortable with the notebook layout though	20:58
lcuk	doesnt have to be as long as they are synced up, i can get things done on small one and use the additional space on the larger one to expand on ideas	20:58
johnx	but I want thin and light :P	20:59
* lcuk gives johnx a piece of paper and space age pencil		20:59
johnx	how about a beagleboard with a 10" screen and make the rest batteries :)	20:59
johnx	ahaha...I can actually imagine prototyping it in wood :)	21:00
GeneralAntilles	johnx, a bit like trying to tap on an N800 with the kickstand out on a smooth surface? ;)	21:00
lcuk	well a large form factor omap would be desirable	21:00
johnx	GeneralAntilles, worse	21:01
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johnx	not only does your notebook move, but the screen also tilts back	21:01
GeneralAntilles	What was that Magnum tablet that was on Engadget for April Fool's?	21:01
lcuk	i hate that stand i cant even use it when its up	21:01
lcuk	its only for watching	21:01
* johnx loves his stand		21:01
* lcuk hits johnx on the head with his wooden crate		21:02
GeneralAntilles	The stand is pretty much the best thing ever invented.	21:02
GeneralAntilles	http://www.engadget.com/2008/02/05/the-gigantic-htc-magnum-is-convenient-inconspicuous/ johnx	21:02
johnx	actually my 10" tablet prototype idea would be a close relative of the lcuk wooden n810 case	21:02
lcuk	hahaha GeneralAntilles actually, there was a crackberry storm that size in the phone shop at weekend, jakey was pressing the buttons	21:03
lcuk	johnx, i want more tablet in that form factor, but i need a decent bezel still	21:03
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, your picture still makes me laugh	21:05
* qwerty12 likes it. It puts me under the impression that GeneralAntilles has a nice side :P		21:05
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GeneralAntilles	lcuk, it's more effective when you jump between the old and new.	21:06
GeneralAntilles	Ehehehe	21:06
* GeneralAntilles pats qwerty12_N800 gently on the shoulder.		21:07
qwerty12_N800	:D	21:07
GAN800	lcuk, sadly I haven't yet collected any interesting data. ;)	21:08
lcuk	its making a difference now, people the world over just wont argue with a guy who puts his laid face on the chan	21:09
RST38h	ehlo again	21:11
RST38h	what's new and exciting?	21:11
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, maybe I'll start world peace? ;)	21:11
lcuk	<lcuk> RST38h, have a mouseisbusy flag and only refresh 1/10 of the plot lines when in motion	21:12
lcuk	hippy	21:12
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RST38h	lcuk: aha	21:14
RST38h	lcuk: already have the flag. can't refresh 1/10 plot lines	21:14
lcuk	why not?	21:14
RST38h	lcuk: it's not a bitmap	21:15
RST38h	have to do computations on the fly and some symbolic analysis Mathematica-style	21:15
lcuk	yeah, but just draw less detail.. ie instead of calulating 800 points only calc 10	21:16
lcuk	80 ^	21:16
RST38h	yes but it will look shitty =)	21:17
lcuk	then as soon as you have stopped it renders again	21:17
lcuk	people will understand	21:17
* GeneralAntilles takes another swing at https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Texts_for_maemo.nokia.com		21:18
lcuk	1/10 might be too much, just see if its worth a limit	21:18
derf	Hmm, Carmn looks neat, but $170 for a BT OBD-II reader seems a bit steep.	21:18
derf	*Carman	21:18
johnx	car stuff = expensive	21:18
RST38h	There is one starting at $57	21:18
johnx	a real ODBII reader is a lot worse	21:18
RST38h	johnx: Like...like...ENGINES!	21:18
Meizirkki	what is the command i can take scr shots from console?	21:18
GeneralAntilles	derf, they discount them every so often	21:18
GeneralAntilles	Sign up for their mailing list if you want to wait for a sale.	21:18
johnx	RST38h, oh the stories I could tell O_o	21:19
derf	Well, normally it is $200.	21:19
RST38h	lcuk: Anyway, I gave up for now. But the good thing is, I have made digit keys work without Fx	21:19
lcuk	nice	21:19
GeneralAntilles	It could be cheaper to get the RS232 adaptor and then an serial to BT adaptor.	21:19
lcuk	that is a good thing indeed	21:19
RST38h	General: Anything that hangs inside a car is a bad idea	21:19
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RST38h	Will get broken sooner or later	21:19
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, I routed mine up under the dash.	21:20
RST38h	smart	21:20
GeneralAntilles	The port is right between the drivers knees	21:20
* RST38h isn't that skillfull though. Would just plug the thing into ODB port under the glove box		21:20
* mgedmin wondered for a while what debian's minimalistic shell had to do with routing		21:20
zakkm	is "tear" web browser any good?	21:20
zakkm	compared to the builtin one	21:20
GeneralAntilles	I just disconnected it from the plastic and insinuated it into a wiring harness.	21:21
Meizirkki	it is good, but i still prefer microb	21:21
GeneralAntilles	It wasn't particularly difficult with my Camry.	21:21
GeneralAntilles	zakkm, it's early alpha	21:21
GeneralAntilles	My dad's old Volvo had the port in the center console storage unit.	21:21
* RST38h wouldn't do that to any of the three Camrys in his life		21:21
lcuk	is this car diagnostics module bidirectional?	21:21
zakkm	trying to find new things to tryout on my nokia ;p	21:21
RST38h	Scary stuff	21:21
lcuk	can you feed stuff back to it?	21:21
GeneralAntilles	RST38h, do what?	21:21
GeneralAntilles	Disconnect a couple plastic clips?	21:21
RST38h	General: Route stuff under the dashboard	21:22
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GeneralAntilles	Wasn't particularly exciting.	21:22
johnx	RST38h, oh, you need a project car :)	21:22
GeneralAntilles	I stuck XLE foglights on my LE Camry, though, so maybe I'm atypical. :P	21:22
* johnx replaces alternators in the rain, in the dark		21:23
johnx	ahaha...then drives in the dark when they disconnect and short out :D	21:23
GeneralAntilles	Hehe	21:23
lcuk	i might repalce my read lights with a pair of n8x0s	21:23
lcuk	rear	21:23
lcuk	replace	21:23
lcuk	ffs	21:23
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GeneralAntilles	I <3 my crappy FWD car. :P http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/sweetride.jpg	21:24
lcuk	hahahahahahahaha	21:24
johnx	nothing like suddenly having all the electrics and power equipment (sterring breaks) on your car die on a dark windy road	21:24
GeneralAntilles	johnx, what, not manual steering? :P	21:25
johnx	well it turned into manual un-boosted steering	21:25
johnx	I believe in some comforts :)	21:25
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, im laughing at the picture comment	21:25
lcuk	in the cool thread	21:25
GeneralAntilles	Cool thread?	21:26
lcuk	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=242916&postcount=8	21:26
johnx	gah, I should add a real avatar to ITT, huh?	21:27
GeneralAntilles	lcuk, Ehehe	21:27
GeneralAntilles	johnx, stupid grin!	21:27
johnx	got one lined up :)	21:27
GeneralAntilles	Jaiku?	21:27
johnx	the same	21:27
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GeneralAntilles	I should probably replace my Jaiku avatar, too.	21:27
GeneralAntilles	But I just love those sunglasses.	21:27
Myrtti	Jaiku ♥	21:28
RST38h	johnx: Replacing headlights on an '84 Camry in freezing rain - will it qualify as a project?	21:32
GeneralAntilles	Headlights or headlight bulbs? :P	21:32
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RST38h	headlights, '84 camry had modular lights	21:32
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Stskeeps	johnx: so - how do we go around m-r iteration 2? start "all over again", bzr branch a hildon package, bzr commit locally till it's done and compiling, bzr push to personal branch\|team branch\|project branch, hint builder boxes to build packages for the branch which then uploads to repo and adds?	21:35
lcuk	GeneralAntilles, http://img177.imageshack.us/img177/1951/monkeylol1oi4pw0pdna8.jpg	21:36
GeneralAntilles	Creepy monkey	21:36
lcuk	monkey got fscked too	21:37
lcuk	Myrtti, isnt jaiku just irc for web2.0	21:37
GeneralAntilles	and lazy people	21:37
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zakkm	do any of you guys use the stylus, or just use a thumb'/fingers ?	21:38
GeneralAntilles	I hardly ever use my stylus these days	21:39
johnx	eep backlog	21:39
GeneralAntilles	Only for sketching	21:39
johnx	Stskeeps, yes, that seems like a great workflow	21:39
Myrtti	lcuk: don't mock it, I found a boyfriend just two months ago in Jaiku	21:39
johnx	RST38h, I mean a whole car that's a project :)	21:39
lcuk	Myrtti, not knocking it at all :) im a member and use it etc	21:39
johnx	lcuk, it's for people who want some permanence to the record	21:39
johnx	zakkm, no stylus from the beginning	21:39
lcuk	johnx, not really any difference to now	21:40
lcuk	everything we are saying is in google	21:40
johnx	I think there's something more to it, think of it as a high pass filter built in, and a more specific topic	21:40
Myrtti	it's better than twitter and identica in that it does threads	21:41
Myrtti	and you can ignore the rss-feeds of others selectively	21:41
lcuk	heh, it leaks information though (in a good way) the cross talk makes it interesting	21:41
lcuk	from your personal irc channel it expands nicely	21:41
Myrtti	the leaking is configurable	21:41
Myrtti	you can set yourself to private...	21:42
Stskeeps	johnx: will also make it possible for people to easily contribute and so on i guess	21:42
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lcuk	i really like the mauku integration :)	21:43
Stskeeps	johnx: .. and if this doesn't have a great effect on nokia, we can always turn the project into being called Mer (ocean) :P	21:43
Stskeeps	.. or bitch, if told in danish..	21:44
Stskeeps	:P	21:44
johnx	ahaha	21:44
johnx	now that is finally a name I can really get behind	21:44
Stskeeps	or the direct translation, "More"	21:45
Stskeeps	:P	21:45
lcuk	Myrtti, i hope you didnt mblog whilst on first date	21:45
Myrtti	no, but he did take a picture of me looking at the present he gave me...	21:46
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Stskeeps	Meiz_n810: any objections against M-R changing name to Mer? :>	21:47
emma_goldstein	is there anyone running "labyrinth" on actual diablo (python 2.5.2) ? I got "importing gconf"-error	21:47
lcuk	Myrtti, tsk tsk so was it the present that won your heart then	21:48
Myrtti	lcuk: yeah, an O'Reilly Pocket Guide on vim (as I'm an emacs user) and he also flashed my N95 with new firmware as he had Windows laptop with Nokia Update tool and I run only Linux...	21:48
johnx	also, it's a great onomatopoeia: "What should we call it?" "Uhm, Mer, I dunno."	21:49
Stskeeps	hehe	21:49
Meiz_n810	Stskeeps: i don't care much about the name =P	21:49
lcuk	heh	21:49
Myrtti	what can I say.	21:49
lcuk	but how on earth could you date a windows user :P	21:49
Myrtti	lcuk: work laptop... he uses Gentoo and Mac in personal use	21:49
Stskeeps	Myrtti: isn't giving an emacs user a guide on vim like challenging someone to a duel? ..	21:49
lcuk	it seems to have worked	21:50
Myrtti	Stskeeps: I actually need vim from time to time when I work on servers that don't have other editors.	21:50
Myrtti	so the pocket reference actually came in handy	21:50
Myrtti	I do have emacs one of course as well.	21:50
lcuk	you must have big pockets, or a mary poppins handbag	21:51
Myrtti	of course I have a huge handbag...	21:52
lcuk	you women are all the same, my missus just got a bigger bag, its like the frikkin tardis	21:53
Stskeeps	johnx: http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Ocean_surface_wave_icon.svg <- this pretty much illustrates our fight with maemo/hildon..	21:54
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solarion	"you women are all the same"	21:54
* solarion smacks lcuk until sense trickles in		21:54
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GeneralAntilles	Does anybody else get absolutely massive text on wiki commons?	21:55
Myrtti	lcuk: I keep my pocket guides in my laptop backpack, though	21:55
solarion	that said, a tarids-back would be freakin' schweet	21:55
lcuk	its ok, im used to gettin smacked about	21:55
solarion	bag	21:55
johnx	You hu-mans are all the same, you all have two legs! what's up with that?	21:55
johnx	Stskeeps, I was thinking more like this: http://www.theartofdredging.com/rogue-wave.jpg	21:55
* GeneralAntilles dies trying to coerce this wikitable into submission.		21:55
* solarion will refrain from the humourous reply that just about flew from his fingertips		21:55
qwerty12_N800	solarion, yer, getting smacked is common in the north, lcuk don't mind :p	21:55
lcuk	lol	21:56
Stskeeps	johnx: haha	21:56
Stskeeps	johnx: yeah.. that quaifies as a "watch out for us" :P	21:57
Stskeeps	+l	21:57
lcuk	johnx, http://www.flickr.com/photos/13964815@N00/99491056/	21:57
zakkm	does the theme maker work on mac?	21:58
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johnx	it should	21:59
qwerty12_N800	yes, it's a java app (i assume you are talking about konttori's one)	21:59
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lcuk	bbl	22:06
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Stskeeps	johnx: so, from bottom we start with glib and gtk, deblet svn packages (boot and such), i guess, and i get a build beagle set up	22:10
_786soul	Got a small question. How can I disable the onboard wifi in my n810 to plug in and use an external one I'll connect through USB?	22:10
johnx	Stskeeps, sounds ok	22:11
johnx	I am still trying to track down this freakin' h-i-m problem	22:11
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Stskeeps	nod maybe it would help when it's not a hacked up platform i guess ;)	22:14
Stskeeps	i wonder why the heck control panel acts weird though	22:14
johnx	I'm worried that it's something in gtk2.12	22:14
johnx	apparently the java guys ran into something that triggers a similar message	22:14
johnx	java using gtk to display that is	22:15
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Stskeeps	sec	22:15
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Stskeeps	mm	22:17
johnx	this: http://pastebin.com/m68992eab	22:17
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johnx	sapwood sure causes me a lot of pain	22:18
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Stskeeps	that looks odd, maybe X relays wrong depth?	22:21
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johnx	I tried it in xephyr with the same result	22:21
cars__	Hi guys. I'm having a problem using ssh to login to or from the n810 on my LAN. I have generated and shared the appropriate keys, but it says it can't resolve the hostname (name or service not known). How do I solve this? Do I have to make the server discoverable somehow, or relax the firewall permissions? I'd perfer to ssh both to and from the n810, but mostly use the n810 as a client.	22:21
johnx	I can't test it in xomap as xomap seems to return pressure events causing hildon-input-method to think it should launch the thumboard	22:22
Stskeeps	tslib conflict maybe	22:22
johnx	cars__, try using the IP address directly instead of the hostname	22:22
johnx	anyways, can't think any more. going to sleep	22:24
Stskeeps	nini	22:24
johnx	I'll have my revenge tomorrow sapwood / h-i-m shakes fist	22:24
Stskeeps	SAPWOOOOD!. or something	22:24
Stskeeps	:P	22:25
johnx	exactly :D	22:25
GeneralAntilles	Ha	22:26
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johnx	I think it might just be some flux in sapwood at the moment	22:29
johnx	<- lied about going to bed	22:29
GeneralAntilles	:O	22:29
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Stskeeps	there were sapwood updates so maybe a recompile is in order	22:30
johnx	ah, good, I'll do that tomorrow	22:30
* johnx really sleeps		22:30
aquatix	johnx: nn	22:30
GeneralAntilles	More lies	22:30
GeneralAntilles	I bet he's gonna go brush his teeth first.	22:31
* aquatix bets too		22:31
aquatix	might have to do with his alcohol breath though ;)	22:31
disco_stu	where does johnx live?	22:31
GeneralAntilles	In some fake timezone he made up.	22:32
aquatix	at his home	22:32
aquatix	yeah, gtm+johnx	22:32
aquatix	*gmt	22:32
Stskeeps	right now hes sortof around russia or finland i guess, timezone wise	22:32
aquatix	he's drifting west	22:32
GeneralAntilles	Aren't we all.	22:32
disco_stu	GeneralAntilles, he always goes to sleep early	22:32
GeneralAntilles	disco_stu, Japan. ;)	22:33
aquatix	21:32:57 [freenode] [CTCP] \| Got TIME reply from johnx: Wed Nov 19 05:32:57	22:33
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aquatix	disco_stu: define `early' ;)	22:33
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disco_stu	i go to sleep normally at 3 am	22:33
* aquatix very boring at about 23:30		22:34
disco_stu	and now it is 5pm	22:34
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Stskeeps	aquatix: jees	22:34
aquatix	Stskeeps: otherwise i crash my car into something when driving to work the next day	22:34
Stskeeps	was referring to his 5am go to sleep	22:35
Stskeeps	if i did that, i would be sleeping atleast 12 hours after	22:35
Stskeeps	:P	22:35
user__	could someone make transparent keyboard for maemo ?	22:35
GeneralAntilles	user__, there are a couple floating around	22:35
cars__	johnx, Thanks. That works. :)	22:35
user__	thx	22:35
aquatix	Stskeeps: ah :P	22:35
GeneralAntilles	But we're a little slow to do real translucency.	22:35
aquatix	yeah, me too	22:35
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disco_stu	i installed an irc bouncer, so you'll be seeing me online 24/7	22:37
user__	how about video out ? i didnt hear any thing new from those guys from bochum	22:37
GeneralAntilles	user__, VNC or something similar	22:38
aquatix	disco_stu: /me just does irssi in a screen session	22:38
* GeneralAntilles typically uses irssi proxy.		22:38
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aquatix	it's more convenient for me to use irssi as client too	22:38
disco_stu	plus i can switch fron pc and tablet without you notice it	22:38
* aquatix too ;)		22:39
aquatix	hell, i can even irc from my phone	22:39
disco_stu	aquatix, i dont keep a pc on	22:39
* aquatix has a server :)		22:39
lcuk	disco_stu, thats really good news, i installed an ignore device today you i cannot see you 24/7 :P	22:39
user__	vnc ? ;/ i was thinking about something to connect n800 to tv like i do with itouch	22:39
GeneralAntilles	user__, it doesn't have video out.	22:39
disco_stu	so i put the bouncer on my router	22:39
GeneralAntilles	user__, unless you're really, really good at soldering BGAs and writing kernel drivers.	22:40
lcuk	disco_stu, watch out for memory buffer sizes	22:40
disco_stu	lcuk, :)	22:40
disco_stu	lcuk, not a problem	22:41
user__	i now ;/ that nokia dont have but those guys from nokia labs bochum ? show movie were they use tablet without vnc	22:41
user__	general im not as good	22:42
lcuk	ive seen people go to the moon	22:42
GeneralAntilles	user__, that was effectively VNC	22:42
GeneralAntilles	It wasn't really a hardware solution.	22:42
user__	;/ thats bad ;/	22:43
lcuk	this was the sync thing wasnt it gen	22:43
lcuk	ummm doofer thingy	22:43
* lcuk turns up a blank		22:43
GeneralAntilles	There's a machine connected to the TV, it wasn't just straight tablet-to-TV.	22:43
user__	thanks for help anyway	22:43
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GeneralAntilles	yerga, ping.	22:44
GeneralAntilles	I'm loving the fact that you actually remain logged in on maemo.org now. . . .	22:45
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lcuk	"Maemo DP team blog" that sounds wrong	22:47
GeneralAntilles	development platform	22:47
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lcuk	i know what it means, it still sounds wrong	22:47
GeneralAntilles	Which, interestingly, includes the website.	22:47
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* disco_stu sees some latin nicknames		22:49
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Stskeeps	dp, where? :P	22:56
qwerty12_N800	>.<	22:56
Stskeeps	as in blog, not deep penetration, qwerty12_N800	22:56
Stskeeps	:P	22:56
qwerty12_N800	:P	22:57
lcuk	deep?	22:57
* aquatix sees some filthy minds		22:57
lcuk	close your browser then	22:57
qwerty12_N800	dbl, then whatever floats your boat then lcuk :P	22:57
disco_stu	GeneralAntilles, what can i use for auto pop3 checking	22:57
GeneralAntilles	Modest?	22:58
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disco_stu	like an applet.. just to know there is mail.. not modest downloading it	22:59
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zakkm	isnt there mnotify ?	22:59
zakkm	applet to check pop3 ?	22:59
zakkm	like google notifier for mac / linux.	22:59
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zakkm	disco_stu: like that?	22:59
disco_stu	zakkm, i think that was the name	23:00
disco_stu	i'll look for it	23:00
zakkm	it was in uhh	23:00
zakkm	i have extras and extras-devel.. and it was on my nokia	23:00
zakkm	i dont know what repo it belongs to though	23:00
yerga	GeneralAntilles, pong!	23:01
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disco_stu	zakkm, i downloaded it, i think is in extras	23:02
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disco_stu	zakkm, thx	23:03
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disco_stu	i need to check if it is safe	23:03
zakkm	oh i dont know, just stumpled upon it.. i like to app manager search through stuff	23:04
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disco_stu	i mean.. how it sends my info through the net	23:07
* lcuk giggles		23:07
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disco_stu	well.. see you later. i'll head to the gym	23:08
* Meiz_n810 is messing the offical ubuntu port for a while		23:10
Stskeeps	where did you find it at?	23:10
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Meiz_n810	ports.ubuntu.com	23:10
Stskeeps	ah	23:11
Stskeeps	debootstrapping it?	23:11
Meiz_n810	yep	23:11
Stskeeps	k	23:12
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Stskeeps	i guess we're safe no matter what just as long as there's a ubuntu upstream	23:12
Stskeeps	we're not really relying on it being mojo or ubuntu	23:12
Meiz_n810	just trying (like always)	23:12
Stskeeps	hehe, that's what experimentation is	23:13
Meiz_n810	yep	23:13
Meiz_n810	but the good thing is: deblet repo can be added, and packages needed for booting can be installed	23:15
Meiz_n810	like they can be in m-r	23:15
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Stskeeps	yeah, true	23:16
Meiz_n810	i believe i'll get m-r back to my tablet very soon. Results of my first try with the offical ubuntu was: apt-get update fails in chroot	23:17
Stskeeps	hmm?	23:18
Stskeeps	what does it say?	23:18
Stskeeps	you use install_mr or raw debootstrap? (without minbase i believe?)	23:18
Meiz_n810	it just failed to connect	23:18
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Stskeeps	copy in resolv.conf?	23:19
Stskeeps	to etc	23:19
Meiz_n810	my first try was with .tgz from: http://people.ubuntu.com/~ogra/arm/OMAP35x_EVM/	23:20
Stskeeps	ah	23:20
Meiz_n810	now trying to debootstrap with gutsy:s script	23:21
Meiz_n810	as suggested by persia at #ubuntu-arm	23:22
zakkm	sounds like maemo reconstruct is getting far in progress	23:22
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Stskeeps	mm, first iteration	23:23
Stskeeps	most frustrating, but next one is more structured	23:23
Stskeeps	goal was to have hildon base going in 110-120mb flash, and we have, so there's reasons to go on with it	23:24
zakkm	so it works ?	23:27
zakkm	just not simple?	23:27
Stskeeps	and this was without not trying too hard to strip down	23:27
Stskeeps	http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v119/JohnX/hildon-desktop-gqviewxwd.png	23:27
Stskeeps	it needs to be cleaned up and some functionality added on top, but yeah, it is feasible so far	23:27
zakkm	woww	23:27
zakkm	full hildon?	23:27
Stskeeps	it is a hildon ui, yeah	23:28
Stskeeps	but we still have a lot to go	23:28
zakkm	faster than actual maemo?	23:28
Stskeeps	systemui, mce, et	23:28
Stskeeps	c	23:28
zakkm	less ram usage?	23:28
Stskeeps	faster is hard to evaluate cos our X server isn't acting perfectly yet :)	23:28
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Stskeeps	but the goal was if it was possible to build a small enough system	23:29
Stskeeps	even if it was a minimal ubuntu base, and not some embedded system	23:29
zakkm	that looks really nice :P	23:29
zakkm	small enough system? like storage wise or minimal ?	23:29
zakkm	minimal apps*	23:30
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Stskeeps	it fits in 124mb flash, there's 250 in your device	23:30
Stskeeps	there's 300 mb of uncompressed data there	23:30
zakkm	isnt maemo smaller?	23:31
Stskeeps	possibly	23:31
Stskeeps	but we haven't begun to -really- strip down yet	23:31
Stskeeps	and this can both run LXDE, KDE, etc if you wanted it to	23:31
Stskeeps	without having to spend years porting stuff for it	23:32
zakkm	ill go with fluxbox ;p	23:32
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: saw http://picasaweb.google.com/mail.deweb/MaemoReconstructed?pli=1#5269966649978278514 ?	23:32
zakkm	is there a way to mimic a rightclick?	23:32
Stskeeps	tap and hold? :P	23:32
zakkm	oh	23:32
zakkm	:P	23:33
zakkm	sounds very good then :)	23:33
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smackpotato	is it possible to mount a 16gb usb dongle on a 770	23:34
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smackpotato	do i have to load drivers, do i have to mount by hand	23:35
zakkm	mount by hand :)	23:35
zakkm	( i dunno.. )	23:35
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smackpotato	hmmm	23:36
smackpotato	I have the hardware and also host mode	23:36
zakkm	your 770 didnt wsod yet?	23:37
smackpotato	lol the touch went but it wa warrenty	23:38
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smackpotato	i use a 810 nowadays	23:38
zakkm	my old 770 wsod within like 2 weeks of buying	23:38
zakkm	and it came no warranty	23:38
smackpotato	and you still buy nokia products	23:39
zakkm	of course	23:39
zakkm	cheap of course	23:40
RST38h	Carman failed installing :((	23:40
zakkm	my 800 was only $145 Canadian	23:40
smackpotato	with karma?	23:40
zakkm	how new of a car do you need for carman to work?	23:40
qwerty12_N800	RST38h, pastebin your log :P	23:40
smackpotato	80s	23:40
zakkm	really?	23:40
RST38h	qwerty: There was no log - App Manager just showed a message "Installation Failed"	23:41
zakkm	im too young to own a car but it would be cool to go into other ppls cars and be like check this out :)! :D	23:41
zakkm	app manager has a log ;p	23:41
zakkm	in the menu at the top	23:41
zakkm	tools - log, or something	23:41
RST38h	The carman icon did appear in the menu but when I run carman it does not let me do anything	23:41
qwerty12_N800	RST38h, get it from the menu after that message	23:41
smackpotato	im sure you need to buy the bluetooth interface	23:41
RST38h	(ok, I do not have OBD BT device)	23:41
RST38h	will have to try reintalling	23:41
RST38h	The ODB thingie is not necessary for Carman operation, right? I will still show maps, etc?	23:42
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GeneralAntilles	yerga, is GPLv2 acceptable for your translation?	23:50
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GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, yeah, I saw.	23:50
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yerga	GeneralAntilles, yes, of course.	23:52
yerga	it was only some words	23:52
GeneralAntilles	yerga, yeah, just making sure. ;)	23:52
GeneralAntilles	I don't think anybody will have any issues.	23:52
GeneralAntilles	But better to cover the bases and not end up shipping translations and having somebody object afterwards.	23:52
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