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| desiv | Working now. I still can't get nit-env-lxde without nit-env-x, which needs tablet-x, which I am getting now... :-) | 00:10 |
|---|---|---|
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| Stskeeps | mm, i still don't get why there isn't a clear path there | 00:17 |
| Stskeeps | i mean, it doesn't make sense that base -> tablet-x -> nit-env-x -> nit-env-lxde works but base -> nit-env-lxde doesn't | 00:18 |
| desiv | It rebooted on me. I'm running a dpkg --configure -a now. I'll see where it left off... | 00:18 |
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| Stskeeps | oh, right, swapon somewhere :P | 00:19 |
| desiv | Dang it.. I forgot that.. :-) | 00:19 |
| desiv | I'll try to remember to place that in my /etc/fstab when I get back in.. | 00:20 |
| Stskeeps | enable in fstab to make it permanent | 00:20 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 00:20 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 00:20 |
| * Stskeeps continues reading articles for the social computing course tomorrow. | 00:20 | |
| woglinde | social *g* | 00:20 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, they kinda conflicts those two words.. | 00:20 |
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| lopz | hola | 00:21 |
| Stskeeps | ola | 00:22 |
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| * lcuk is gonna try to put a picture where a thousand words will count | 00:25 | |
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| Stskeeps | ~seen johnx | 00:36 |
| infobot | johnx <n=john@p2172-ipbf2302hodogaya.kanagawa.ocn.ne.jp> was last seen on IRC in channel #maemo, 2d 13h 23m 50s ago, saying: 'very nice GeneralAntilles'. | 00:36 |
| Stskeeps | hm | 00:36 |
| AStorm | hi again | 00:37 |
| Stskeeps | evenin' | 00:37 |
| * GuySoft found a N810 for 446$ . thinks he might go for it | 00:38 | |
| AStorm | can hildon input method grab a handle to the textView it's operating on? | 00:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | GuySoft, in the US? | 00:38 |
| AStorm | like, for selection changes | 00:38 |
| aquatix | Stskeeps: this one might be cheaper? http://www.amazon.com/Nokia-N810-Portable-Internet-Tablet/dp/B000Y4AH3C/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1225665505&sr=8-1 | 00:38 |
| Stskeeps | you mean GuySoft | 00:39 |
| GuySoft | i need it shipped to israel :( | 00:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah | 00:39 |
| * Stskeeps glances at amazon | 00:39 | |
| Stskeeps | "Product Description | 00:40 |
| Stskeeps | Nokia N810 Internet Tablet RX-44 - Works with ATandT and T Mobile service only" | 00:40 |
| Stskeeps | wtf :P | 00:40 |
| AStorm | wtf? | 00:40 |
| AStorm | maybe it's n810 wimax? | 00:40 |
| AStorm | but these don't have lockins either | 00:40 |
| GuySoft | AStorm, thats N830 | 00:40 |
| aquatix | Stskeeps: oops, sorry | 00:41 |
| ShadowJK_ | maybe not locked in, but the band N810W supports effectively locks it in anyway? | 00:41 |
| aquatix | GuySoft: hm :( find someone in the US that's willing to ship it to you? | 00:41 |
| aquatix | but $446 still is only 150 euro or something ;) | 00:41 |
| ShadowJK_ | 350ish E or something | 00:42 |
| GuySoft | aquatix, ill try tomorrow.. its a 76$ difference | 00:44 |
| qwerty12_N800 | ~lart sub & idx | 00:44 |
| * infobot puts on a hockey mask and jumps out at sub & idx | 00:44 | |
| aquatix | GuySoft: indeed; mind that you'll have to pay for shipping twice of course | 00:44 |
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| GuySoft | aquatix, not if i stick it on board someone | 00:45 |
| aquatix | true | 00:45 |
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| * robink still wants his modules.dep | 01:15 | |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, does this look intuitive enough: http://liqbase.net/liq.20081102_233642.gary.scr.png | 01:40 |
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| lcuk | (obviously it needs tarting up a bit, but thats the plan anyway | 01:41 |
| GuySoft | does anyone know where to get gpe-multisync? | 01:47 |
| `0660 | that looks pretty clever | 01:47 |
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| lcuk | 0660, thats the idea :) i know loads of people who like large granuality, and loads who like fine grained. it also encourages the user to play and interact | 01:51 |
| Mousey | liqbase reads pdfs? | 01:53 |
| lcuk | not yet it doesnt | 01:53 |
| Mousey | rats | 01:53 |
| lcuk | this is a bit cleaner: http://liqbase.net/liq.20081102_235221.gary.scr.png | 01:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | That background has got to go. | 01:56 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, :) someone has already sussed that out | 01:56 |
| lcuk | its just one file | 01:56 |
| lcuk | put anything you like there | 01:56 |
| lcuk | i WILL be making an interface very soon for image selection | 01:56 |
| lcuk | you will be able to change it | 01:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | You said yourself that out of box experience is important. ;) | 01:57 |
| lcuk | and set the brightness of it | 01:57 |
| lcuk | yes 100% | 01:57 |
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| lcuk | final tweak for the night :) http://liqbase.net/liq.20081102_235650.gary.scr.png | 02:00 |
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| bef0rd | Hi. | 02:47 |
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| tulkastaldo | hello | 02:51 |
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| t_s_o | i swear, allnames must just be trolling... | 03:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 03:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Finally, somebody else sees the insanity. | 03:02 |
| t_s_o | what worries me is that he is accumulating assistants... | 03:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 03:05 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Pied Piper of itT? | 03:05 |
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| t_s_o | meh, just another thread to ignore, as its not going anywhere, fast... | 03:05 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Sounds like itT for the past 10 months. | 03:06 |
| t_s_o | guess so | 03:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Started right around the time Technut abandoned ship. | 03:06 |
| lcuk | who was technut | 03:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Big community support guy. | 03:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Kinda like me 7-9 months ago. | 03:08 |
| lcuk | cool | 03:08 |
| lcuk | t_s_o, when i hold down my home key i want liqbase to run | 03:08 |
| t_s_o | one way ticket to burnout central | 03:08 |
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| t_s_o | ah, my bad then, i figured you wanted the same functionality as the desktop key on the 7710... | 03:09 |
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| * legind just discovered chrooting into debianARM on the n800.. so awesome | 03:09 | |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, powerlaunch | 03:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | powerkey, then <some other key> | 03:09 |
| t_s_o | now thats a beast... | 03:09 |
| lcuk | how do i reach my powerkey.. | 03:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Finger? | 03:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Tongue? | 03:10 |
| lcuk | slide screen back down lift device press button contort self to reopen device whilst still pressing button, press followon button | 03:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, right | 03:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well | 03:11 |
| lcuk | its not so bad where it is now | 03:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's no accounting for crazy people. | 03:11 |
| t_s_o | no comment | 03:11 |
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| lcuk | what about in car in the case | 03:12 |
| lcuk | same situation | 03:12 |
| lcuk | its not crazy :) | 03:12 |
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| dmsuperman | !update | 03:16 |
| dmsuperman | ~update | 03:16 |
| infobot | dselect update, grabs the Packages.gz files from their sources and refreshes the available packages. Use before an apt-get upgrade, or you can use apt-get update instead of dselect update | 03:16 |
| dmsuperman | ~flash | 03:17 |
| dmsuperman | What's the link? | 03:17 |
| t_s_o | to what? | 03:19 |
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| dmsuperman | Flash your device | 03:20 |
| t_s_o | http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware | 03:23 |
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| pupnik | what fun things do you like to run with debian-arm legind ? | 03:31 |
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| pupnik | 770 is such a happy device hooked up to home stereo.... x11vnc + streamtuner = internet radio | 03:36 |
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| smackpotato | what a great idea | 03:37 |
| smackpotato | something to do with my 770 | 03:38 |
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| * t_s_o is pissed at his 770 for going wsod... | 03:38 | |
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| pupnik | :/ | 03:42 |
| pupnik | i also think the sound of the 770 is pretty good | 03:42 |
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| smackpotato | i have a cheap mp3 player hooked up to my stereo just for the fm | 03:45 |
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| Pavlov | are any of you guys able to actually get oprofile to work with call graphs on maemo? like get it to give real data? | 04:10 |
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| solca | ~flasher | 04:20 |
| infobot | i heard flasher is http://wiki.maemo.org/Flasher | 04:20 |
| pupnik | Pavlov: install oprofile kernel - worked for me | 04:21 |
| Pavlov | hrm | 04:21 |
| Pavlov | no one i've talked to here has had it work | 04:22 |
| Pavlov | maybe it just doesn't work on C++ code? | 04:22 |
| pupnik | haven't generated call graphs yet - just the oprofile statistics | 04:23 |
| pupnik | well, what happens when you start profiling? | 04:23 |
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| Pavlov | the reports generate bogus data | 04:31 |
| pupnik | what could cause that? kernel not matched up to libraries? | 04:44 |
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| pupnik | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=142658&postcount=124 Pavlov - that's how i was using it | 04:46 |
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| pupnik | <- not being helpful | 04:48 |
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| l7 | hmm, i'm not sure which program installed it, but youtube-dl-x is a very cool command | 05:38 |
| l7 | probably the mytube | 05:38 |
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| pupnik | http://benjamin-meyer.blogspot.com/2007/03/anigma-game.html a nice game to build when ITOS goes to QT | 07:00 |
| pupnik | when/if? | 07:00 |
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| aspect | what package provides the full-screen keyboard? | 08:01 |
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| pupnik | aspect: you can get the large keyboard with default system | 09:34 |
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| RST38h | good mo[o]rning all | 09:46 |
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| pupnik | morn | 09:48 |
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| RST38h | new sb2 for some reason requires installing etch tools =( | 09:52 |
| suihkulokki | RST38h: the target is etch(ish), so you need roughly matching tools | 09:55 |
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| RST38h | yes but I am normally using host tools | 09:58 |
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| joueur_ | hi ... when i disable R&D mode, is serial-console switched off ? thanks... | 10:37 |
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| RST38h | shit, maemo sdk is broken again | 10:42 |
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| RST38h | [SB2 devel chinook40_armel] fms@ubuntu Maemo $ ls | 10:44 |
| RST38h | ls: .: No such file or directory | 10:44 |
| RST38h | ok, reinstalling everything | 10:44 |
| RST38h | ~curse Nokia engineers for putting their own petty interests before the real developers' interests | 10:48 |
| infobot | May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, Nokia engineers for putting their own petty interests before the real developers' interests ! | 10:48 |
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| joueur_ | R&D mode? pls... | 10:49 |
| joueur_ | yes / no ? | 10:50 |
| RST38h | maybe. | 10:50 |
| StsN800 | RST38h, how should the sdk be then? | 10:52 |
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| RST38h | Anybody knows what advantages 2007q3 toolchain has before 2005q3? | 11:02 |
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| Jaffa | Morning, all | 11:11 |
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| RST38h | Ok, SB2 on Intrepid is broken =( | 11:30 |
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| RST38h | does not see host file system | 11:32 |
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| * aquatix is currently updating to 8.10 | 11:44 | |
| RST38h | aquatix: be prepared for snafu | 11:46 |
| RST38h | At least if you are using SB2 | 11:47 |
| aquatix | sb2? | 11:47 |
| * RST38h suddenly remembers today is the workday for Finland, so there is hope Nokia folks will answer quickly | 11:47 | |
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| RST38h | aquatix: scratchbbox2 | 11:48 |
| aquatix | ah | 11:48 |
| RST38h | Sts: Answering your question, I want SDK to be a host-based toolchain that lets you compile tablet stuff on the host without any extra crap. | 11:48 |
| RST38h | Just like with any other embedded/mobile device | 11:49 |
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| RST38h | and I also want a choice of Linux or Windows (which becomes possible if you do your toolchain strighforwardly) | 11:52 |
| suihkulokki | it's called virtualization :) | 11:53 |
| RST38h | Sorry, but I do not want virtualization, ok? Just want plain toolchain that works | 11:53 |
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| StsN800 | RST38h, and access to emulator images and deployment ability (deploy to usb connected tablet, or to an emulator with a full maemo image inside, alongside toolchain would be a bonus? | 11:54 |
| RST38h | Doesn't break with every minor Ubuntu release. Doesn't require me to mount host fs as NFS volume. Doesn't ask me to install VMWare on Windows | 11:54 |
| RST38h | Sts: No. I have got SCP. | 11:55 |
| RST38h | Sts: Works over WiFi, no USB cable required, lets me instantly deploy to the real tablet. | 11:56 |
| StsN800 | k | 11:56 |
| suihkulokki | I pull in the all-evading iphone defense: The iphone SDK requires a OS X and people don't have a problem with it | 11:56 |
| * RST38h remembers XBox360 SDK requiring OSX | 11:56 | |
| suihkulokki | I'm fairly certain N should invest in making a SDK that works really well in one enviroiment instead of making a SDK that works mediocrily on many systems (as now) | 11:57 |
| RST38h | But considering how constrained iPhone development process is, we can disregard iPhone "SDK" | 11:57 |
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| RST38h | suihkulokki: Right now, we have got SDk that works mediocrily in one environment | 11:58 |
| RST38h | i.e. the worst combination | 11:58 |
| RST38h | and the main reason being trying to be too "smart" with virtualization. | 11:59 |
| StsN800 | RST38h, but a sdk that provides ability for both scp and emu is ok, optional feature? | 12:00 |
| RST38h | Sts: As long as it does not mess the main workflow | 12:00 |
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| StsN800 | its a toolchain with extra utils. there is still the problem with cpu transparency? | 12:03 |
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| cbx333 | guys | 12:05 |
| cbx333 | what is FIASCO? | 12:05 |
| cbx333 | a la - ./flasher-3.0 -F <FIASCO image> -f -R | 12:05 |
| StsN800 | a flash image format | 12:05 |
| cbx333 | ahh | 12:05 |
| cbx333 | makes it sound like it's the next one up from Diablo :p | 12:05 |
| * cbx333 has been out of the loop for a while | 12:05 | |
| cbx333 | I have to reflash as SSU broke my device | 12:06 |
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| hrw | morning | 12:09 |
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| RST38h | Sts: As I said, if the great idea of running stuff in the emulator does not make me jump through the loops with the normal workflow, have an emulator too, I don't care | 12:17 |
| StsN800 | k | 12:17 |
| RST38h | Sts: BTW, if you do want the emulator, at least make its startup painless (i.e. no messing with Xephyr configuration and startup) | 12:18 |
| StsN800 | start-emu & ;) | 12:18 |
| RST38h | or even n8x0 <binary-name> | 12:19 |
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| StsN800 | yeah | 12:19 |
| RST38h | and n900 <binary-name> to start Freemantle app | 12:20 |
| StsN800 | it really ought to be that simple | 12:21 |
| RST38h | it does. | 12:23 |
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| hrw | http://blog.fortytwo.ch/archives/13-guid.html | 12:30 |
| RST38h | Oh yesss :) | 12:30 |
| lardman | morning | 12:35 |
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| RST38h | lardmann | 12:36 |
| lardman | that's the German me? | 12:36 |
| * X-Fade has met lardman's German speaking alterego ;) | 12:37 | |
| lardman | "Bier bitte?" | 12:37 |
| X-Fade | No, you actually spoke some more words ;) | 12:40 |
| lardman | ah, yeah the beer helps :) | 12:41 |
| lardman | Otherwise I can just talk about gas turbines, not very exciting | 12:41 |
| lardman | ;) | 12:41 |
| X-Fade | Heh, that can be interesting too. | 12:43 |
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| RST38h | How much beer did it take for him to switch? | 12:52 |
| lardman | from gas turbines to normal talk? | 12:52 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: We don't speak about what happened in Berlin ;) | 12:52 |
| RST38h | Umgh | 12:53 |
| * RST38h now feels sorry he didn't go and observe the ruckus | 12:53 | |
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| lardman | drat, I don't think I can make the meeting tomorrow | 13:03 |
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| pupnik | gerstoomphend das triebwerk in zee machschnell lardman! | 13:20 |
| pupnik | meeting? | 13:20 |
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| lardman | pupnik: sprint meeting | 13:27 |
| pupnik | in irc lardman ? | 13:27 |
| lardman | yep | 13:28 |
| pupnik | i don't even know where my N810 *is* | 13:28 |
| pupnik | :/ | 13:28 |
| pupnik | <sigh> | 13:28 |
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| RST38h | all N810s go to heaven, so do not worry | 13:35 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: i was wrong btw, hildon-desktop -does- exist, in universe, in ubuntu mojo | 13:41 |
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| * lcuk puts 10p i nthe chan | 15:00 | |
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| lardman | that's a lot of thoughts | 15:02 |
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| t_s_o | the economy may be doing the drain rounds, but i dont think we are that cheap, yet... | 15:02 |
| lcuk | lol | 15:03 |
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| t_s_o | hmm, worriesome. strip reddit down to science, tech and programming, and the front page was left with maybe 4 entries... | 15:06 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I think I finally get the pro-stylus people in that stupid thread | 15:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | They directly associate "finger friendliness" with "dumbed down" and "reduced functionality" | 15:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which, of course, isn't true. | 15:07 |
| t_s_o | i guess its gnome thats to blame, given their zealous stripping of options in name of "user friendlyness" | 15:07 |
| t_s_o | people dont want to see that happen to their pocketable geek toy | 15:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | I still say if it bothers you that much, install XFCE and call it a day. | 15:09 |
| RST38h | General: at least they are not asking for tongue-operated UI | 15:10 |
| RST38h | But there is a pretty good and bullet proof argument against these guys | 15:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mouth computing | 15:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | That'd be interesting to see. | 15:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Fits with the cattle-like way most people behave. | 15:11 |
| RST38h | "Judging from S60 Touch (5800) device, Nokia sees reason for BOTH pen and finger support in its products. Actively and fanatically proposing finger-only UI basically goes astray of Nokia's business model. Case closed." | 15:12 |
| t_s_o | where is that quoted from? | 15:12 |
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| t_s_o | i think people will worry less if nokia can provide some way for the user to replace the default gui with another, without the need to hack around proprietary nokia elements... | 15:13 |
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| lcuk | i want finger friendly uis because i want to use them with my stylus. flicking around a fast interface and hitting every single box is a great feeling - its almost like playing an instrument | 15:15 |
| RST38h | t_s_o: It's not quoted, I can produce this bullshit from my own brain | 15:15 |
| lcuk | RST38h, but you "quoted" it | 15:15 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Just because I put quote marks, doesn't mean I quote it from somewhere. If I quote some source, I always attribute it. | 15:16 |
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| lcuk | "cool, ok then" | 15:16 |
| RST38h | hehe | 15:16 |
| lcuk | "you know, this is quite easy" - lcuk | 15:17 |
| RST38h | You forgot (C). | 15:17 |
| RST38h | =) | 15:17 |
| RST38h | Hell, Motorola is still releasing new phones! Feels like watching hair grow on a corpse | 15:17 |
| lcuk | "is that a quote, or you talking?" | 15:19 |
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| inz | RST, you do that a lot? | 15:19 |
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| RST38h | inz: Thankfully, no. | 15:20 |
| lcuk | bbl | 15:20 |
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| lopz | hola | 15:24 |
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| Khertan | Hello everybody ! | 16:01 |
| X-Fade | Khertan: I have approved your project. | 16:01 |
| Khertan | ah :) | 16:01 |
| Khertan | project is already coded :) | 16:01 |
| Khertan | just need to do icon :) | 16:01 |
| Khertan | thx | 16:02 |
| Khertan | just a question about garage | 16:02 |
| X-Fade | Heh, train rides were long enough? :) | 16:02 |
| Khertan | i am at work now :) | 16:03 |
| Khertan | does svn browser on garage is delayed ? | 16:03 |
| Khertan | as i ve just uploaded the source of mCalendar 0.5 | 16:03 |
| Khertan | and don't see it in garage source browser . | 16:03 |
| X-Fade | It should not? | 16:03 |
| Khertan | and as it s the first time i use svn | 16:04 |
| Khertan | i 'm not sure doing thing right :) | 16:04 |
| X-Fade | I see a 2 minues old commit? | 16:04 |
| Khertan | so it s ok :) | 16:04 |
| X-Fade | " First upload to svn" | 16:04 |
| Khertan | :) | 16:04 |
| Khertan | yep great | 16:05 |
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| Khertan | thx i see it too now | 16:05 |
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| Khertan | (uploaded from pygtkeditor 3.0 and the first try of svn support) | 16:05 |
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| Khertan | svn is really easy to use in fact | 16:11 |
| Khertan | i don't understand why i ven't use it before | 16:11 |
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| melmoth | YO Khertan | 16:24 |
| melmoth | Say, about the hildon border bug thingy. I was thinking. | 16:24 |
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| melmoth | why dont you use simply a gtk window for mcalendar ? | 16:24 |
| melmoth | you should then be able to workaround the problem and not experience the border in non full screen mode. | 16:25 |
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| bergie | all right, now ITT activity affects your maemo.org karma... http://maemo.org/profile/view/fredp/ | 16:47 |
| bergie | (note: we have calculated these for only 600 users so far. check your own maybe around tomorrow) | 16:47 |
| * GeneralAntilles cackles. | 16:48 | |
| Stskeeps | how's your karma, GA? :P | 16:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not updated yet. | 16:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | "Itt posts" and "Itt thanks" should be s/Itt/itT/ (according to Reggie) or s/Itt/ITt/ (according to Quim). | 16:50 |
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| RST38h | speaking og karma, bergie, mine has not been updated since February | 16:50 |
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| RST38h | Is it done by hand, with abacus? | 16:51 |
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| bergie | RST38h: the dates are misleading... I'm investigating why the timestamp doesn't change | 16:51 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: There seems to be a bug in updating the timestamp. | 16:51 |
| bergie | now everybody's karma has been updated | 16:51 |
| X-Fade | But the karma's are all max 2 days old. | 16:51 |
| bergie | there are some 130k per-module karmas in DB | 16:51 |
| bergie | that is around 10 per user | 16:51 |
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| RST38h | shouldn't there be only one per user? | 16:51 |
| bergie | RST38h: discussion karma, bugzilla karma etc | 16:52 |
| RST38h | ah | 16:52 |
| bergie | prior to today we had 9 karma modules enabled... today ITT thanks and posts made that 11 | 16:52 |
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| RST38h | aha, it's updated now, although timestamp is still in february | 16:53 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Yep. | 16:53 |
| RST38h | No ITT sections yet though | 16:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | What modifiers did we decide on for the itT karma? | 16:54 |
| X-Fade | Well, it is max 2 days old and we just enabled karma for itt. So it can take up to 2 days before yours updates. | 16:54 |
| Stskeeps | does counter-maemo stuff count as minus points in your maemo.org karma? *ducks* | 16:54 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: sqrt(thanks) * 8, sqrt(posts) * 1. | 16:54 |
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| RST38h | do completely insane comments (see Darius) count? =) | 16:55 |
| RST38h | or do they get multiplied by sin(time()) | 16:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Also, does somebody want to push "Reevaluate karma modifiers" for this sprint? | 16:55 |
| RST38h | ? | 16:55 |
| RST38h | General: Are you sure you WANT this discussed? =) | 16:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | No, not really. | 16:56 |
| RST38h | exactly. | 16:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | But maybe if we just nominate somebody to come up with their own unified system and don't have any debate. :P | 16:56 |
| * johnx reevaluates karma modifiers with a roll of the dice :D | 16:56 | |
| RST38h | 10d8 I hope | 16:57 |
| johnx | 1d2 | 16:57 |
| RST38h | +5 to charisma | 16:57 |
| Stskeeps | yes, evaluate on charisma instead | 16:57 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 16:57 |
| bergie | Stskeeps: sure... if you blog about iPhone you get so many thumbs down that your karma dies :-) | 16:57 |
| lardman | bergie: I'm still missing discussion karam | 16:57 |
| RST38h | +3 to strength against trolls! | 16:57 |
| lardman | s/karam/karma | 16:58 |
| Stskeeps | bergie: and that's why i stay away from blogging | 16:58 |
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| bergie | Stskeeps: well, you can also push only maemo items to planet maemo | 16:58 |
| RST38h | bergie: What if you blog about your imaginary iPhone? (Pandora) | 16:58 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Discussions mail importing is broken atm. berie is looking into that. | 16:58 |
| bergie | GeneralAntilles: with Hirvinen on board, we might have time for changing the karma calculations | 16:58 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: saw my comment on hildon-desktop? | 16:58 |
| lardman | X-Fade: cool | 16:59 |
| johnx | yup. so it's in hardy? or ibex? | 16:59 |
| Stskeeps | hasty universse | 16:59 |
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| johnx | ah, nice. I wonder if that was a recent build | 17:00 |
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| Stskeeps | it's the mobile-flash one as i see it | 17:00 |
| RST38h | Heh, Ibex's FireFox just crashed | 17:00 |
| Stskeeps | (bbl bus, - johnx, could you see http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed , - I've been really busy and need another debian person to take a look and see if its sane :P) | 17:01 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, ok, I'll check it out. catch you later :) | 17:01 |
| Khertan | melmoth : sorry i was away | 17:01 |
| Khertan | why not use gtk windows ... for the fullscreen feature and the menu | 17:01 |
| melmoth | full screen should work with gtk window | 17:02 |
| RST38h | Enjoy: http://cache.gawker.com/assets/images/gizmodo/2008/11/vzwdata.jpg | 17:03 |
| melmoth | i wonder if the "hildon" menu could work .... | 17:03 |
| RST38h | Brought to you by Verizon | 17:03 |
| lardman | ~lart Outlook for sitting on emails for 5days and not telling me it hadn't sent them! | 17:03 |
| * infobot teaches Outlook for sitting on emails that M$ Access is a database. No, really, a database. A real live multi-user... well, ok, not multi-user, but a database. Yeah, that sounds right. for 5days and not telling me it hadn't sent them! | 17:03 | |
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| Khertan | melmoth: are you sure that fullscreen works ? | 17:04 |
| melmoth | yep | 17:04 |
| Khertan | so i ll try | 17:05 |
| melmoth | fullscreen is not hildon specific. it works in gtk too | 17:05 |
| melmoth | for the menu, what i did once was not to use the hildon menu, but have it appear wit a tap and hold. so the application was usable both in gtk and in hildon | 17:05 |
| Khertan | yep ... but menu ... .... | 17:05 |
| Khertan | top and hold isn't acceptable for a finger friendly application | 17:06 |
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| melmoth | then you either have the border issue.. or you can try to put a menu button of some sort in a widget that would dissapear in full screen mode. | 17:07 |
| melmoth | so it would be like what you have with a hildon window | 17:07 |
| melmoth | just workarounds though. But i doubt the border "bug" will be fixed soon, if ever fixed. | 17:08 |
| Khertan | yep ... it s a solution | 17:08 |
| Khertan | yep :) | 17:08 |
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| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, so, if we kill the old wiki, can we just disable the wiki module so it wont show up on the site, but keep the data on hand for a few months just in case? | 17:10 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Fun split. | 17:13 |
| StsN800 | indeed | 17:13 |
| johnx | you guys missed the party. w00! | 17:13 |
| StsN800 | hehe | 17:13 |
| * GeneralAntilles looks over this Sprint's task list. | 17:13 | |
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| * StsN800 ponders what to make for dinner | 17:16 | |
| * GeneralAntilles crave steak. | 17:17 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, ping. | 17:28 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: pong | 17:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | You get my last message? | 17:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | [10:10am] <GeneralAntilles> X-Fade, so, if we kill the old wiki, can we just disable the wiki module so it wont show up on the site, but keep the data on hand for a few months just in case? | 17:29 |
| X-Fade | Yes, sure that is no problem. | 17:29 |
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| GeneralAntilles | There haven't been any objections to the list, so I'm inclined to get started. | 17:30 |
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| Khertan | :) | 17:32 |
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| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, what needs to be done to get the redirects going? | 17:33 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Does highlighting X-Fade automatically trigger splits? <_< | 17:35 |
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| Luria | i swear, its like 90s efnet today | 17:37 |
| RST38h | Oh no | 17:42 |
| RST38h | If it were like 90s efnet, I would be ruling this channel by now =) | 17:43 |
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| RST38h | +isn 16 with 4 minions of mine and 12 bots! B) | 17:44 |
| RST38h | \ | 17:44 |
| * Stskeeps yawns | 17:44 | |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, redirects? | 17:45 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Just give me a list, so I can do that tomorrow. | 17:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Kill_the_old_wiki#Redirects | 17:46 |
| Khertan | X-Fade: is it possible to rename a project in garage ? | 17:50 |
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| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Ok. | 17:50 |
| X-Fade | Khertan: No. | 17:50 |
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| X-Fade | Khertan: You can't rename a project. | 17:51 |
| Khertan | yep :) | 17:51 |
| Khertan | ok ... i ll made a fork ;) | 17:52 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: any initial reaction? | 17:56 |
| johnx | a couple small reactions...want feedback on wiki or IRC? | 17:56 |
| Stskeeps | irc for now | 17:56 |
| Stskeeps | putting it out to general discussion when it's a little more complete and there's a thread through it | 17:57 |
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| johnx | testing definitely needs to happen on busybox vs coreutils. until then I'm not ready to sacrifice speed for the convenience of the small number of us who want to meddle | 17:57 |
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| Stskeeps | well, it also makes porting easier - there's a lot of unconventional hacks around in packages | 17:58 |
| Khertan | why many ask for coreutils ? | 17:58 |
| Stskeeps | and yes, proof is needed | 17:58 |
| Stskeeps | Khertan: because busybox has bugs and isn't updated really | 17:58 |
| Stskeeps | (on tablet, mostly) | 17:59 |
| Stskeeps | doesn't support all coreutils functionality | 17:59 |
| Stskeeps | is the biggest point | 17:59 |
| johnx | and overall I believe those would be accepted as bugs, at least in debian. they're usually easy to hack around | 17:59 |
| Khertan | yep but i mean what coreutils is used on a tablet ? | 17:59 |
| johnx | s/those/places where bash is assumed/ | 17:59 |
| infobot | johnx meant: and overall I believe places where bash is assumed would be accepted as bugs, at least in debian. they're usually easy to hack around | 17:59 |
| Stskeeps | ah, are we speaking dash vs busybox sh or busybox utils vs coreutils? | 18:00 |
| johnx | well, both really | 18:00 |
| Stskeeps | i guess it's a matter of finding if it makes any sort of difference at all | 18:00 |
| johnx | agreed | 18:01 |
| Stskeeps | i mean, deep down, the arm chip is a 166mhz | 18:01 |
| * qwerty12 even prefers busybox's sh to dash | 18:01 | |
| Stskeeps | and when i grew up, that was powerful | 18:01 |
| johnx | well dash isn't made to be used by fleshy hu-mans | 18:01 |
| johnx | bash has been growing to take advantage of GHz chips though :P | 18:01 |
| Stskeeps | yeah.. | 18:01 |
| Stskeeps | it's the windows of the shell world | 18:01 |
| qwerty12 | johnx, dash doesn't work well with the init scripts in maemo :/ | 18:01 |
| Stskeeps | bashisms, i guess | 18:02 |
| johnx | really? now that is interesting... | 18:02 |
| johnx | so ash is more bashy than dash? | 18:02 |
| qwerty12 | Stskeeps, bashisms with busybox's sh? :P | 18:02 |
| Luria | RST38h, im sorry, i was elsewhere for your nostalgia of grandeur | 18:02 |
| Luria | but have an eggdrop on me | 18:02 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12: yeah, if it implements those bashisms.. | 18:03 |
| Khertan | yeah but why you need coreutils on a tablet ? | 18:03 |
| Khertan | busybox isn't enough for what for example ? | 18:03 |
| qwerty12 | Fair enough, I just don't count busybox as implementing anything useful :P | 18:03 |
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| Stskeeps | Khertan: many packages rely on the existence of proper coreutils .. but it's a good question really | 18:03 |
| qwerty12 | Khertan, find is made shit, ls is made shit, ps (though it is part of procps, not coreutils) is made shit, top is made shit | 18:04 |
| * Khertan don't want to troll ... just to understand ... as he always use busybox for the commands : python :) | 18:04 | |
| qwerty12 | heh :) | 18:04 |
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| Khertan | qwerty12: ok | 18:04 |
| Khertan | i use htop on my tablet | 18:04 |
| qwerty12 | Same :) | 18:04 |
| qwerty12 | I know the purpose of busybox is to save space but ffs, I expect to see busybox (and do) on my routers - not on my tablet. | 18:05 |
| Khertan | hum ... | 18:05 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: with coreutils and everything, ubuntu booted to console login in 12 secs | 18:05 |
| Stskeeps | (udev as well) | 18:05 |
| Khertan | many users complain about not having any space left on / to install applications | 18:06 |
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| Khertan | i know u can install it elsewhere or boot on sd | 18:06 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, if I push a VW bug without an engine down a hill it will go quite fast :P | 18:06 |
| Khertan | but a simple user don't know how to do that | 18:06 |
| Khertan | so i don't think busybox is a bad idea ... (except when i ve try to use dpkg-buildpackage) | 18:07 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: hehe :P | 18:08 |
| johnx | also, I'd like to see Nokia's proposal on the boot process for maemo5 before pushing for initfs | 18:08 |
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| johnx | there are lots and lots of answers to the multiboot problem at earlier or later boot stages | 18:09 |
| Stskeeps | the problem is really, we don't know anything :P | 18:09 |
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| johnx | I wonder if they do :D | 18:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Khertan, presumable the rootfs will be getting larger with the N900. | 18:09 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: i have my doubts too actually | 18:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | We'll know more with the alpha SDK | 18:11 |
| johnx | we'll know about libs and such, but probably not system level stuff | 18:12 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: well, or initfs being an alternate root partition | 18:14 |
| Khertan | GeneralAntilles: n900 ? | 18:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Khertan we're not really talking software for current generation hardware | 18:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | So the current space issues aren't entirely relevant. | 18:15 |
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| Khertan | hum .... | 18:16 |
| Khertan | yep ... but future os will run on current hardware | 18:16 |
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| Stskeeps | we hope.. but doubt it | 18:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Khertan, unlikely. | 18:18 |
| johnx | hopefully it will just be a matter of hacking and optimizing the community will be able to do this time | 18:18 |
| Khertan | kidding ? | 18:19 |
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| johnx | no, we really aren't | 18:19 |
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| Khertan | hum .... | 18:20 |
| Stskeeps | and that's one reason why we should have a base platform so it would be a matter of remixing the newer version :P | 18:20 |
| Khertan | do you already get reimbursment for the maemo summit from nokia ? | 18:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | If enough stuff is open, a community hacker edition seems pretty reasonable. | 18:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Actually, even as it stands right now with just the open wifi driver. . . . | 18:22 |
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| Stskeeps | mm, not directly impossible atleast | 18:23 |
| Khertan | oh ! | 18:24 |
| * Khertan discover that ubuntu 8.10 is available | 18:24 | |
| Khertan | And UME too ... | 18:25 |
| Khertan | Clutter User Interface | 18:25 |
| Khertan | :) | 18:25 |
| Khertan | this remember me something .... | 18:26 |
| Khertan | :) | 18:26 |
| Khertan | User interface in HTML, Flash, Clutter, Python with GTK, C/C++ with GTK and Java | 18:26 |
| Khertan | they forgotten some things | 18:26 |
| Khertan | :) | 18:26 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: any good ways of benchmarking coreutils+dash as sh vs busybox? memory use? i mean, i don't see many parts of coreutils running in memory.. | 18:30 |
| johnx | I was thinking about that. I guess the most common heavy user of CPU/RAM/IO is find | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | effect on startup, maybe | 18:30 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, and that happens rarely i guess | 18:30 |
| johnx | but maemo probably doesn't use find for anything big | 18:31 |
| johnx | hmm, so maybe the big difference really is just flash taken up | 18:34 |
| Stskeeps | mm | 18:34 |
| Stskeeps | *ponders* | 18:34 |
| johnx | and the only performance questions is ash vs dash vs bash? | 18:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | What's the difference, a few megabytes? | 18:34 |
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| Stskeeps | and the question of mb vs portability ease | 18:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Portability is way more important in my mind. | 18:35 |
| johnx | 11MB vs 400KB? | 18:35 |
| Stskeeps | well the question is more how it is compressed | 18:35 |
| johnx | sound about right? in terms of order of magnitudes? | 18:36 |
| johnx | hmm, that's just coreutils | 18:36 |
| johnx | bsdutils is separate | 18:36 |
| ricko73 | Does gpeCalendar support syncing with Google's calendar? | 18:37 |
| summatusmentis | if you use erminig (I think is what it's called | 18:38 |
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| johnx | Stskeeps, back of the envelope calculations say that busybox might save 20MB or more | 18:40 |
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| suihkulokki | johnx: how much of that is translations (locales) and docs? | 18:42 |
| johnx | no idea :) | 18:42 |
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| * Stskeeps is doing some unfair calculations | 18:46 | |
| Stskeeps | johnx: completely unfair experiment, - procps, coreutils, bsdutils, strip away share/doc, share/man, share/locales vs busybox same treatment, no static linking, 2.2mb flash, busybox, 308k flash | 18:56 |
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| Stskeeps | (im aware there should be more in it, like sed and such.) | 18:56 |
| Stskeeps | oh | 18:56 |
| Stskeeps | and util-linux as well | 18:56 |
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| Stskeeps | was in the first jffs2 | 18:56 |
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| johnx | util-linux is only about 2MB, mostly man pages too probably | 18:57 |
| Stskeeps | i could personally sacrifice 1.9m flash on less pain of portability, atleast | 18:58 |
| Stskeeps | where it returns to hildonizing things | 18:58 |
| johnx | I concur | 18:58 |
| Stskeeps | not fiddling with busybox oddities | 18:58 |
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| Stskeeps | (who needs ls locales anyway besides "C"?) | 18:59 |
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| johnx | :P | 19:00 |
| johnx | sorry, I'm a recent convert to the concept of localization :P | 19:01 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 19:01 |
| Stskeeps | well i get it for some things like graphical UI, but for system utils? | 19:01 |
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| Stskeeps | it certainly makes support forums a lot more fun to try and decipher turkish shell errors.. | 19:02 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:02 |
| X-Fade | Wow, these Maemo Summit interviews by the C-Base crew are cool.. | 19:02 |
| Stskeeps | url? | 19:02 |
| * RST38h agrees with sts | 19:02 | |
| johnx | that's a very english-centric point of view :/ | 19:02 |
| X-Fade | http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VQo4ivOIVq0 | 19:02 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: and i'm danish | 19:03 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:03 |
| RST38h | johnx: I am originally Russian | 19:03 |
| qwerty12 | johnx, I can't even speak my mother tongue :p | 19:03 |
| X-Fade | More videos here: http://www.youtube.com/user/jocognito | 19:03 |
| RST38h | johnx: Localized documentation is good, but UI and short messages may stay English, no problem there for most people | 19:03 |
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| johnx | so, English speakers in an English irc channel aren't interested in other languages... how surprising | 19:04 |
| Stskeeps | oh, i like other languages, i speak danish(+ the deriatives of swedish/norwegian), english, german, and a tad of french | 19:04 |
| johnx | splitting localizations out into packages seems like a reasonable approach | 19:04 |
| Stskeeps | and yeah, packages is a good thing | 19:05 |
| johnx | but dropping them entirely is totally unacceptable to me | 19:05 |
| Stskeeps | oh, i didn't say dropping entirely | 19:05 |
| RST38h | make em optional | 19:05 |
| johnx | fair 'nuff :) | 19:05 |
| Stskeeps | i dislike my debian wanting to make my shell danish | 19:06 |
| Stskeeps | for instance | 19:06 |
| * RST38h aboslutely dislikes Maemo trying to show russian file modification dates | 19:06 | |
| Stskeeps | then again it's loads of years since i had that happening | 19:06 |
| johnx | and I dislike excluding people from the community based on the languages they speak | 19:06 |
| RST38h | you are not excluding anyone | 19:06 |
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| johnx | as long as they're optional and easily available, I'm happy | 19:07 |
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| lcuk | x-fade theres more to come from him - he says he had another couple not yet sorted | 19:09 |
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| * lcuk thought these were meant to be internal videos though | 19:11 | |
| housetier | then you should send him a message | 19:13 |
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| lcuk | i did :) | 19:13 |
| lcuk | thats how i know theres more | 19:13 |
| lcuk | im not bothered that they are public | 19:14 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: any opinion on "SDK" then? | 19:22 |
| * johnx rereads | 19:23 | |
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| johnx | that seems 100% reasonable | 19:26 |
| Stskeeps | drew a bit inspiration from how it is with mobile development for windows mobile.. and that this is entirely plausible to make happen | 19:27 |
| johnx | it's pretty much the same with android | 19:28 |
| RST38h | AFAIK Windows Mobile requires you to use Studio .NET | 19:28 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: yeah, but it was the interaction of easy access to deploying to device and emulator i was talking of | 19:28 |
| Stskeeps | they get a full windows mobile to deploy to in their emulators | 19:28 |
| Stskeeps | i don't care much for the studio .net part :P | 19:29 |
| Stskeeps | it should be as simple as what we discussed earlier | 19:29 |
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| RST38h | Do keep in mind that few people use emulators for debugging | 19:30 |
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| RST38h | This stuff doesn't usually work well | 19:30 |
| Stskeeps | ssh root@emulatedtablet gdb -p ;) | 19:30 |
| Stskeeps | er | 19:30 |
| Stskeeps | ssh root@emulatedtablet gdb binary pid.. i mean | 19:31 |
| johnx | RST38h, qemu is surprisingly precise in system mode | 19:31 |
| RST38h | Why not ssh root@realtablet ? | 19:31 |
| RST38h | johnx: Maemo SDK qemu crashes in Hildon file requester | 19:31 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: it should be just as simple, but not all people who develop for maemo may have a n900 or 770 etc | 19:31 |
| RST38h | johnx: Should I say more? | 19:31 |
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| johnx | RST38h, qemu *system* is not the same as qemu *user mode* | 19:32 |
| johnx | the user-level stuff is really neat, but not really complete sadly | 19:32 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, user mode one is crap | 19:32 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:32 |
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| RST38h | hmm, ok | 19:42 |
| Stskeeps | one emulates a linux kernel and processor and tries to run a binary, the other tries to emulate the full machine | 19:44 |
| RST38h | So, hrw is using the second one | 19:44 |
| johnx | yes | 19:44 |
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| hrw | elo | 19:44 |
| johnx | the second one is reliable enough to be a build machine | 19:45 |
| hrw | johnx: you are insane - right? | 19:45 |
| * johnx checks | 19:45 | |
| johnx | yes | 19:45 |
| Stskeeps | indee | 19:45 |
| Stskeeps | d | 19:45 |
| hrw | using qemu as build machine is plain crazy | 19:45 |
| Stskeeps | yet it will work | 19:46 |
| RST38h | out of academic interest, why? | 19:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | Damn that insane johnx. | 19:46 |
| hrw | RST38h: speed | 19:46 |
| RST38h | hrw: How does it compare speed-wise with the real thing? | 19:46 |
| hrw | n8x0 emulation takes lot of cpu power for hw emulation. | 19:46 |
| * Stskeeps uses a qemu-arm that distcc's if it can to a cross-compilation toolchain | 19:46 | |
| hrw | RST38h: slooooow basically | 19:46 |
| RST38h | Let us say, given a 2GHz Penryn? | 19:46 |
| johnx | scratchbox is a pain, I'd have to do tons of work to get the recipes in OE, and for building hildon in debian it's faster than building on an n8x0 | 19:46 |
| johnx | (on an A64): because of: more RAM (256MB) and faster IO | 19:47 |
| hrw | RST38h: I usually gave up after few minutes on my 2.4GHz core | 19:47 |
| johnx | well, compared to building in OE it's quite painful, but I can just set it up and leave it overnight | 19:47 |
| RST38h | hrw: Isn't it translating ARM opcodes into Intel ones and running the translated code? | 19:48 |
| hrw | RST38h: if you want to use qemu to have 'native' arm build machine then emulate Versatile PB instead of N8x0 | 19:48 |
| johnx | hrw, that's what I was doing. sorry if I was misleading | 19:49 |
| RST38h | hrw: BTW, sb2 is broken again on Intrepid Ibex | 19:50 |
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| hrw | RST38h: I do not care at all about scratchbox maemo crap | 19:55 |
| RST38h | Well, I have to develop using *something*... | 19:56 |
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| * RST38h finally finished watching Fatherland. Much, *much* better use of nazi uniforms than Starship Troopers, but why did they add a happy end? | 20:03 | |
| Stskeeps | fatherland? | 20:03 |
| hrw | RST38h: then use virtualbox/vmware with 8.04 for building? | 20:03 |
| RST38h | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatherland_(novel) | 20:03 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 20:04 |
| RST38h | hrw: I am not perverted enough to go that far | 20:04 |
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| ||cw | RST38h: why not? you'd at least know you have a clean build environment | 20:10 |
| ||cw | and there are premade vmware images to get you started | 20:11 |
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| Mousey | HAIL ERIS!! | 20:20 |
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| bigup | hello there :) | 20:22 |
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| kaie | is there a generic sip application for n810? or is gizmo a generic one? I signed up for sipgate and assumed I'd be able to use gizmo to use it, but gizmo seems to be tied to their own service? | 20:24 |
| kaie | I'd like to make outgoing calls using sipgate | 20:25 |
| bigup | kaie: i'm using the default sip application which works great with the sip service on my ISP | 20:26 |
| kaie | bigup, what's the name of the default sip application? | 20:26 |
| bigup | kaie: don't know exactly, in the communication folder, click the "internet call" icon | 20:27 |
| X-Fade | kaie: rtcomm should work. | 20:27 |
| X-Fade | http://rtcomm.garage.maemo.org/ | 20:27 |
| X-Fade | It supports generic sip. | 20:27 |
| kaie | bigup, ah I missed that, thanks | 20:28 |
| kaie | X-Fade, will try, too, thanks! | 20:28 |
| bigup | :) | 20:28 |
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| bigup | as for me i'm trying to find an application like mauku to read facebook status | 20:28 |
| bigup | i can't find another way than using the web browser to do it | 20:29 |
| bigup | and according to mauku page and feature request, facebook support is not planned | 20:29 |
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| kaie | bigup, is facebook interested in opening up their messaging to 3rd party apps, allowing to skip their ads? | 20:32 |
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| Khertan_n810 | Hi ! | 20:35 |
| bigup | kaie: no idea :( | 20:36 |
| Khertan_n810 | we can t upload anymore directly to the autobuilder queue using scp ? | 20:36 |
| bigup | hello Khertan_n810 | 20:36 |
| Khertan_n810 | hello bigup | 20:36 |
| Khertan_n810 | ach ! a fransoziche ! | 20:37 |
| Khertan_n810 | s/a/ein | 20:37 |
| Khertan_n810 | (trahi par proxad) | 20:37 |
| X-Fade | Khertan_n810: Nothing was changed, so it should still work ;) | 20:37 |
| bigup | je vois ca :) | 20:38 |
| Khertan_n810 | hum ... maybe my stupid fai | 20:38 |
| bigup | Khertan_n810: what isp? | 20:38 |
| Khertan_n810 | they have block imap and smtp port | 20:38 |
| Khertan_n810 | the french more stupid one : orange | 20:38 |
| Khertan_n810 | (data phone connection) | 20:39 |
| Khertan_n810 | scp use port 22 ? | 20:39 |
| Khertan_n810 | right ? | 20:39 |
| X-Fade | yep | 20:39 |
| bigup | right | 20:39 |
| Khertan_n810 | hum ... i get an http response with a telnet on it | 20:40 |
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| Khertan_n810 | for security reason ... blablabla | 20:40 |
| Khertan_n810 | orange sucks ! | 20:40 |
| * RST38h has finally compiled full ARm simulator in MIPS assembly | 20:40 | |
| bigup | i use free | 20:40 |
| RST38h | too scared to test though =) | 20:40 |
| Khertan_n810 | yep but free don t have any 3g data phone connection | 20:41 |
| Khertan_n810 | at least not before many years | 20:41 |
| Khertan_n810 | gov didn t approve the fourst operator licence | 20:41 |
| Khertan_n810 | s/fourst/fourth | 20:42 |
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| bigup | true | 20:42 |
| TPC | anyone with scratchbox set up who can compile a small perl module for me? | 20:42 |
| TPC | I can't get scratchbox working here, and only need this oen module :/ | 20:42 |
| TPC | one* | 20:42 |
| kaie | bigup, the builtin internet call app works fine for me, thx | 20:43 |
| Khertan_n810 | so now instead using efficiently network i overcharge it using all in http | 20:43 |
| RST38h | why would you need to compile perl? | 20:43 |
| TPC | it uses some c I think | 20:44 |
| icebattle | RST38h - how does MIPS asm compare with x86 for ease of development? | 20:44 |
| TPC | I tried installing the debian armel package, and it gives this error: | 20:44 |
| TPC | perl: symbol lookup error: /usr/lib/perl5/auto/Term/ReadKey/ReadKey.so: undefined symbol: Perl_Istack_sp_ptr | 20:44 |
| bigup | kaie: you're welcome | 20:44 |
| woglinde | icebattle mips is some father of risc | 20:44 |
| woglinde | icebattle you have more register and simpler commands | 20:44 |
| bigup | as for me i'm still trying to figure out how to grab facebook statuses | 20:44 |
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| Khertan_n810 | facebook status ? what is it ? | 20:45 |
| icebattle | I've written java bytecode (RISC based) for fun, but figure MIPS might be fun too | 20:45 |
| derf | Almost any asm development is easier than x86. | 20:45 |
| lcuk | icebattle, its a lot nice in asm, you think less about the stack and more about manipulating the data | 20:45 |
| * lcuk barfs on x86 | 20:45 | |
| lcuk | hiya Khertan_n810 | 20:46 |
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| Khertan_n810 | hiya lcuk ... | 20:46 |
| icebattle | I hated writing asm for x86 prior to 386. in flat mode it's tolerable, though | 20:46 |
| lcuk | old feelings.. | 20:46 |
| lcuk | Khertan, how have you been? | 20:46 |
| Khertan_n810 | fine and you ? | 20:47 |
| lcuk | stressed as always in the daytime | 20:47 |
| Khertan_n810 | but a bit tired fighting against the world | 20:47 |
| RST38h | lcduk | 20:47 |
| RST38h | moo, khertan, tooo | 20:47 |
| lcuk | Khertan, sounds about right | 20:48 |
| icebattle | Guys, I tried the agps-ui to speed up gps on my 810, but it is still waaay slow. Does anyone know of any other potential fixes? | 20:48 |
| Khertan_n810 | sound about stupid isp, stupid gov | 20:48 |
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| bigup | Khertan_n810: it's a service like twitter or mauku but on the facebook website | 20:48 |
| lcuk | you mean its a website | 20:48 |
| RST38h | icebattle: Have you verified that lat/lon you selected is close enough to your actual location? | 20:48 |
| Khertan_n810 | bigup ... ah ... and you call that a service ? :) | 20:48 |
| icebattle | It sux that my 810 takes minutes (like 15-20) to get initial fix, when my dumbass iPhone can do it in ten seconds | 20:49 |
| lcuk | i have a website - can i get my liqbase status displayed on my tablet ? | 20:49 |
| icebattle | my 800 with BT gps is also very quick, so I'm convinced there's something lower level at play | 20:49 |
| woglinde | icebattle ????? | 20:49 |
| woglinde | ah gps | 20:49 |
| woglinde | okay | 20:49 |
| lcuk | icebattle, its only very rarely that happens with me now, my gps works. and the missus likes it when the american gps bloke talks | 20:49 |
| woglinde | yes | 20:49 |
| icebattle | hehe | 20:50 |
| Khertan_n810 | how can i say to svn to ignore some files in my work folder ? | 20:50 |
| lcuk | Khertan_n810, don't you tell it specific files? | 20:50 |
| lcuk | and it ignores all the rest | 20:50 |
| woglinde | Khertan_n810 yes | 20:50 |
| lcuk | or do you just not want to update a certain few | 20:50 |
| icebattle | lcuk - you are using agps-ui for initial setup? | 20:50 |
| woglinde | Khertan_n810 svn propedit svn:ignore | 20:50 |
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| Khertan_n810 | hum ... svn commit * is usefull | 20:50 |
| woglinde | and than its the same as cvs | 20:50 |
| Khertan_n810 | thx i ll try | 20:50 |
| lcuk | no - i just started putting it in the car and using it every day and night | 20:51 |
| derf | Why not just svn commit, with nothing after it? | 20:51 |
| lcuk | and only once have i got home and its not had a lock | 20:51 |
| woglinde | but be awaere you can then only commit a whole dir | 20:51 |
| woglinde | not this ignore file only | 20:51 |
| lcuk | i use svn commit -m "reason" | 20:51 |
| lcuk | i never do * :S | 20:51 |
| icebattle | interesting. How long does it take to get the initial fix? | 20:51 |
| woglinde | or I didnt figure out yet how only commit the ignore changes only | 20:51 |
| lcuk | most days before i get down the street | 20:51 |
| lcuk | other days its as far as the motorway | 20:52 |
| Khertan_n810 | svn propedit svn:ignore | 20:52 |
| Khertan_n810 | svn: Argument cible explicite requis | 20:52 |
| Khertan_n810 | ? | 20:52 |
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| woglinde | Khertan_n810 hms | 20:53 |
| woglinde | sorry | 20:53 |
| lcuk | Khertan, before you do anything else, take a complete backup | 20:53 |
| woglinde | I am waiting till he is comming again | 20:54 |
| lcuk | manually | 20:54 |
| woglinde | I forget the dir | 20:54 |
| woglinde | svn propedit svn:ignore ./ | 20:54 |
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| Khertan_n810 | sorry ... disconnected | 20:56 |
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| woglinde | khertan svn propedit svn:ignore ./ | 20:57 |
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| woglinde | sorry I missed the last argument | 20:57 |
| woglinde | has to be a directory | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed#Boot_process <- more sane? | 20:58 |
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| Khertan_n810 | thx woglinde | 20:59 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps, indeed :) | 20:59 |
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| Khertan_n810 | now i have all my tools on my tablette | 21:00 |
| Khertan_n810 | an ide / svn / something to build packages with autobuilder | 21:01 |
| Stskeeps | hehe | 21:01 |
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| Khertan_n810 | just lack for an image editor | 21:01 |
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| Khertan_n810 | to create icons :) | 21:01 |
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| Khertan_n810 | leaving train | 21:02 |
| Khertan_n810 | and taking my car ... | 21:02 |
| Khertan_n810 | bye | 21:02 |
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| woglinde | hm he coud use gimp | 21:12 |
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| lcuk | lol woglinde | 21:20 |
| woglinde | lcuk what? *g* | 21:21 |
| lcuk | khertan is as mad as me - he does all development directly on his device, i only compile on mine | 21:21 |
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| woglinde | whaahhaaa | 21:22 |
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| jegp | anyone knows a wifi wep cracker for n800 ? | 21:30 |
| RST38h | This channel is full of madmen tonight | 21:30 |
| RST38h | jegp: no | 21:30 |
| woglinde | RST38h yes | 21:30 |
| woglinde | waiting for years in the n800 | 21:30 |
| * RST38h swallows a live mouse and spits out the tail | 21:30 | |
| woglinde | done it in 2 seconds | 21:30 |
| woglinde | on the pc | 21:31 |
| qwerty12_N800 | RST38h, yum, give me the tail :) | 21:31 |
| * LinuxCode gives RST38h indigestion tablets | 21:31 | |
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| RST38h | see? madmen, all of you. | 21:32 |
| RST38h | rebooting the ICNexus thingie... | 21:33 |
| bigup | does anyone have any idea how to access facebook status update features or facebook itself without the web browser? | 21:33 |
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| Raytray | status have rss feed. | 21:33 |
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| Raytray | Pidgin can add a facebook chat account | 21:34 |
| bigup | thanks | 21:34 |
| Raytray | No problem. :) | 21:34 |
| bigup | i'm more interested in user statuses | 21:34 |
| bigup | a twitter liike feature | 21:35 |
| Raytray | If you have an rss reader you can get the status updates. | 21:35 |
| bigup | Raytray: i'm going to do that then | 21:35 |
| bigup | thanks :) | 21:35 |
| Raytray | No problem. :) If you need help finding the actual feed feel free to highlight me. | 21:36 |
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| bigup | Raytray: i'm trying :) | 21:37 |
| bigup | Raytray: wow, taht was hidden ! | 21:40 |
| Raytray | It was easier to find on the older version. :) | 21:40 |
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| bigup | Raytray: what rss reader should i use? the default one or is another one better? | 21:42 |
| Raytray | I don't read feeds on the tablets so I wouldn't know. | 21:43 |
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| Stskeeps | okay, so, all developers, people who are interested in Maemo as a platform either on tablets or on other places. http://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed - It currently contains a write up of a possible vision of a future open source base for the tablet OS Maemo. The wiki is meant as a place for making augmenting or change proposals or competing proposals for the individual parts, as to reach a consensus amongst developers both internal and external ... | 21:50 |
| Stskeeps | ... to Nokia how they would like to form future Maemo OS'es. My interest currently is 1) for you to read it through 2) tell me if it's insane or sane or what I've done wrong/that you can't understand and 3) If it's of decent enough quality and idea as to that should put it to a larger audience at maemo-developers and that way try to gain the notice of Nokia for instance. 4) Contribute with a proposal if it's a topic you're interested in. | 21:50 |
| Stskeeps | idea/good enough idea | 21:50 |
| Stskeeps | that i should put it to a larger audience :P | 21:50 |
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| suihkulokki | Stskeeps: in the boot area you might want to talk about uBoot, which exists and works on omaps. grub is kinda x86-oriented thing | 21:53 |
| woglinde | suihkulokki right | 21:53 |
| Stskeeps | alright - was mostly meant as the whole bootmenu menu.lst thing as a thing for that | 21:54 |
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| lcuk | Stskeeps, seems reasonable to me, i dont know enough specific to comment though | 21:57 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: ta - i guess your focus would be maybe be SDK and booting process (how to deal with when things screw up.) | 21:58 |
| lcuk | yes, but i hate the cross compile scenarios as we discussed the other day, i realise they are a necessary evil, but stay as far away from them as possible | 21:59 |
| woglinde | he | 21:59 |
| Stskeeps | well the idea is to have both ability to develop on tablet, with the aid of a computer, and on a computer | 21:59 |
| woglinde | cross compile is a sane way for developing | 21:59 |
| Stskeeps | or on a computer with the aid of a tablet | 22:00 |
| lcuk | on device compiling lets me feel the device and become comfortable with it | 22:00 |
| woglinde | hm | 22:00 |
| lcuk | if you develop and build on a big fast machine emulated you do not get a true understanding of what its capable of | 22:00 |
| suihkulokki | but you don't want to compile a beast like firefox on the tablet :) | 22:00 |
| woglinde | *g* wait for bigger projects and you will love crosscompile | 22:00 |
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| suihkulokki | which would take ~20h on it :P | 22:00 |
| lcuk | then a beast like firefox is wrong in my eyes | 22:00 |
| lcuk | find a better way | 22:01 |
| woglinde | hehe I once compiled X on a 20 mhz rs6000 machine | 22:01 |
| woglinde | what a fun | 22:01 |
| lcuk | suihkulokki, firefox is a big fat desktop app expecting to live in a big fat desktop environment and was written with no respect for memory or cpu limitations | 22:01 |
| suihkulokki | Stskeeps: I think that doc exaggarates the differences between debian and ubuntu, they are really (at base os level) almost identical | 22:02 |
| * RST38h wipes tears remembering rs6000 | 22:02 | |
| RST38h | Nothing like a good kick in the morning to make its hd spin up... | 22:02 |
| Stskeeps | suihkulokki: that's possible, i'll add a remark | 22:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, I'd do away with the signatures. | 22:03 |
| suihkulokki | if you want a ARMvX optimized debian, all you need is time (or many build machines, upstart is only missing because the debian maintainer for it is lazy :P) | 22:03 |
| derf | I remember trying to get to the lap early so I could work on the SGI that actually had 24-bit color. | 22:03 |
| derf | *lab | 22:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd rather see it presented as one unified vision. | 22:03 |
| derf | Only one did, the rest were 8-bit. | 22:03 |
| woglinde | lcuk and you will not compile qt4 on the nokia | 22:03 |
| woglinde | this last longer then firefox | 22:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | We're not thinking in terms of OMAP2s here. | 22:04 |
| lcuk | i may not compile every single little bit of qt4, but there has to be a coresubset of components required before you have the 17billion other files | 22:04 |
| lcuk | those will compile quickly | 22:04 |
| woglinde | lcuk nope | 22:05 |
| lcuk | i find it hard to believe that there is no core. doesnt this thing stand on strong foundations? | 22:05 |
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| woglinde | the core needs the time of firefox | 22:06 |
| woglinde | and then you can run only very very minimal programss | 22:06 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: and then discussion page -> changes to vision? | 22:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, yeah. | 22:06 |
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| lcuk | woglinde, how long does it take to build on your system? | 22:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | You're both right. | 22:08 |
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| woglinde | lcuk hm one hour or so | 22:09 |
| lcuk | wow | 22:09 |
| woglinde | or 45 minutes | 22:09 |
| woglinde | didnt stop the time | 22:10 |
| lcuk | still | 22:10 |
| lcuk | thats quite a mammothbeast | 22:10 |
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| * GeneralAntilles wonders if the table should be included in the policy: https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Packaging_policy_proposed_changes#Proposed_sections | 22:18 | |
| Stskeeps | no "user/other"? :( | 22:19 |
| Stskeeps | oh, there | 22:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's not a valid category. | 22:21 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: changed page structure now, looks good enough? | 22:22 |
| Stskeeps | if so, i'll type up an e-mail for maemo-developers and lay a bit of bait out | 22:23 |
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| HeMan | Hi! Compared to the official release, what is not working on the HE releases of the 770 firmware? | 22:23 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, structure looks OK | 22:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'll copy-edit it right now. | 22:23 |
| Stskeeps | k | 22:23 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Whew, there's the introduction. :P | 22:36 |
| Stskeeps | cleaning up after a madman is tough :P | 22:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's gonna be tasty when it's done, though. ;) | 22:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm also making it a little more consumable for management types. | 22:38 |
| Stskeeps | *nod* | 22:39 |
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| lcuk | OMG! the world is going to end | 22:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Alright, through the boot process now. | 22:57 |
| GuySoft | ~1200? | 22:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, do you want to review these changes or should I just post 'em? | 22:57 |
| qwerty12_N800 | lcuk, you drama queen :p | 22:58 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: just go ahead and post, i'll look at them in revision history | 22:58 |
| * lcuk shifts focus to jaiku before the world ends | 22:58 | |
| Stskeeps | switching to another freenode server, sec | 22:59 |
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| GeneralAntilles | OK, I'm gonna do it section-by-section to make 'em easier to follow (and revert). | 22:59 |
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| lcuk | qwerty, its not drama! its real, cristel says | 22:59 |
| qwerty12_N800 | aiiie :p | 22:59 |
| lcuk | i suppose though its like when slashdot goes down - i actually get some work done | 23:00 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: so far looking good | 23:03 |
| lcuk | ok back later (good time to vanish) | 23:03 |
| Stskeeps | .. looking good so far. I'm like yoda, just without the force :P | 23:04 |
| lcuk | but you are little and speak funny | 23:04 |
| lcuk | and live in a swamp | 23:04 |
| Stskeeps | hehe. the last part isn't entirely inaccurate | 23:04 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 23:04 |
| * GeneralAntilles had a quotebox template somewhere | 23:05 | |
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| l7 | heya | 23:14 |
| l7 | any opinions on whether the i-Blue 757 is the best gps for an n800? | 23:14 |
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| l7 | it's discounted to $65 USD now which looks rather nice | 23:14 |
| derf | What's the chipset in that? | 23:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | MTK | 23:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's a nice unit | 23:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's a 737 with solar. | 23:15 |
| derf | Yeah... anything with MTK should work fine. | 23:16 |
| l7 | how does the datalogging feature work? | 23:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, OK, my eyes are bleeding | 23:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'll finish up later. | 23:18 |
| l7 | can you press a button on it to mark waypoints? | 23:18 |
| l7 | the 747 seems to have an obvious button for that feature | 23:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Neither the 737 nor the 757 has internal storage. | 23:18 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: alright | 23:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | So much less painful to create new content than editing old. :P | 23:20 |
| l7 | looks like it's the 747 or 841 for waypoint storage then | 23:21 |
| |rt| | lol I just looked up the i-blue gps data logger and in the list of things that customers who bought this also bought is a nose and ear hair trimmer | 23:30 |
| |rt| | oh forgot to say on amazon | 23:30 |
| |rt| | http://www.amazon.com/i-Blue-Bluetooth-Data-Logger-Receiver/dp/B000NK3G2Q | 23:30 |
| l7 | heh | 23:31 |
| l7 | http://www.buygpsnow.com/i-blue-gps_159.aspx has a good listing | 23:31 |
| l7 | i wonder if the 737 edition 2 is different | 23:31 |
| l7 | i heard the 747 might have a few reception issues too | 23:31 |
| |rt| | are these things better than the build in gps on the n810 | 23:32 |
| l7 | yeah, i heard the built in gps is rather bad | 23:35 |
| |rt| | yeah it is | 23:35 |
| l7 | too bad nokia messed that up | 23:35 |
| |rt| | I tried to use it on a flight this weekend and it worked for about 5 minutes on the flight | 23:35 |
| |rt| | so I have a bit of the flight path over phili but that's about it | 23:36 |
| l7 | hrm, i'm surprised they let you use the GPS at all on the plane | 23:36 |
| |rt| | it was pretty cool when it was working....had the speed and altitude | 23:36 |
| |rt| | they probably don't "let" you but gps is a passive thing so I don't know how they would detect it | 23:36 |
| |rt| | I had the unit in offline mode | 23:36 |
| l7 | heh | 23:37 |
| derf | My MTK device works just fine from planes. | 23:37 |
| kriebel | that doesn't turn off bluetooth? | 23:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | As does mine. | 23:37 |
| l7 | they have quite a few silyl rules anyway | 23:37 |
| |rt| | kriebel: internal gps isn't bluetooth | 23:37 |
| l7 | derf: which MTK device do you have? | 23:37 |
| kriebel | oh... yeah | 23:37 |
| derf | l7: I don't even remember. | 23:37 |
| |rt| | offline mode does disable bluetooth and wi-fi though | 23:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | l7, depends on the airline. | 23:37 |
| derf | Wait, it's in my pocket. iTrek M5+. | 23:38 |
| l7 | ah neat | 23:38 |
| derf | And oops, I left it on. For the past 5 days. | 23:38 |
| derf | Still not low on battery. | 23:38 |
| pupnik | hmm | 23:39 |
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