IRC log of #maemo for Saturday, 2008-11-01

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AStormanyone?00:03
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derfNo.00:04
derfIt uses a vector representation mapper doesn't support for the overlay.00:04
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AStormmhm...00:04
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Mouseyso whats up.. pulseaudio for maemo? ^_^01:37
* pupnik want to strean audio from laptop/pc *to* tablet (attached to stereo)01:39
pupniknot finding the esd command01:39
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qwerty12_N800pupnik, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=1905901:40
Mouseypupnik: other way around =)01:41
Mouseyaltho, that's not a bad idea either01:41
* Mousey clicks01:41
pupnikyou rule qwerty12_N800 thanks01:41
qwerty12_N800heh, np :)01:41
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pupnikmaybe now i can play movies on my laptop (and/or beamer) and the 770 on stereo can play audio01:42
pupnikhmm not getting audio yet01:45
qwerty12_N800hmm, tried the other method that is on the maemopeople link?01:47
pupnikhm no it seems i have borked esd01:47
pupnik esd -tcp -public01:47
pupnikNo SBOX detected01:47
pupnik/dev/dsptask/pcm1: No such file or directory01:47
qwerty12_N800:/01:48
qwerty12_N800I get the sbox message but not the 2nd one01:50
pupniki'll try adding -tcp -public to /etc/esd.conf01:51
pupnikok esdcat is connecting01:53
pupniktcp        0      0 192.168.0.33:45067      192.168.0.35:16001      ESTABLISHED 31220/esdcat01:53
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pupnikwoot - works02:26
pupnik:D02:26
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pupnikstreamtuner has no "stop playing" cmd... good grief02:35
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qwerty12_N800it's called kill :P02:36
pupnikis fun, not quite working great02:37
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pupnikmade my evening, qwerty12_N80002:39
ryoohkihas anyone installed skype yet on the n810 wimax edition? i get a "libhildonfm2 (= 1:2.0.2)" not found error02:39
qwerty12_N800:)02:40
pupnikwatching cowboy bebop with good sound now02:40
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ryoohkiis there a solution yet for the ""libhildonfm2 (= 1:2.0.2)" problem? i have a n810 wimax 0.2008.14-903:24
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Robot101ryoohki: you have a wimax one? cool... where did you get it?03:30
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pupnikno idea ryoohki03:48
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zakkmlcuk: you there?04:11
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disco_stuis there any woman using the n800 ?04:17
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ryoohkiRobot101: craigslist.org04:57
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dererkhi guys!05:29
dererkit seems that, *again*, akamai is not working in my country, or unless in my ISP05:30
dererkany other mirror than reporsitory.maemo.org?05:30
pupnikmmm esd doesn't sync the audio around the net - i'm getting drift05:31
pupnikwhat is akamai05:31
dererka SUPPOSED word wide plataform to speed up exchange05:32
dererkobviously, is does not speed up anything for me :)05:33
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Macer_blah. :-\05:41
Macer_zimbra's external user web interface sucks balls05:41
Macer_it opens another browser window for a directory05:42
Macer_how fucking lame05:42
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dererkgod bless Tor network05:59
dererkand f@ck off akamai bullshit06:00
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RST38hgood mo(u)rning all08:43
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* RST38h suddenly remembers it is Saturday10:32
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eichi_PDAn800 is to slow for vgba, isnt it?10:47
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vincenzo88Hi everybody10:52
RST38heichi: no, it should be ok10:53
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eichi_PDARST38h, its to slow here cant play11:01
vincenzo88Someone know if the scratchbox works fine with Unbuntu 8.10 ?11:04
qwerty12I'm using it fine.11:04
qwerty12But, I have to run sysctl -p before running scratchbox11:04
qwerty12Wait a sec, I'll get the sysctl.conf settings11:05
vincenzo88Thanks :)11:05
qwerty12vincenzo88, as root: echo "vm.mmap_min_addr = 409611:06
qwerty12" >> /etc/sysctl.conf11:06
qwerty12Hrm11:06
vincenzo88Yes i have edited that in 4.0411:06
vincenzo888.04 thanks11:06
qwerty12I don't know why but stupid intrepid won't read sysctl.conf on startup so before running scratchbox, I just do a sudo sysctl -p and compiling works fine11:07
qwerty12hardy read it fine :(11:07
vincenzo88sysctl -p ? what is this command ?11:07
qwerty12It reads the settings you put in sysctl.conf and applies them11:08
vincenzo88Ok ok :=)11:08
vincenzo88I will install 8.10 so !11:08
qwerty12You may find that the install docs that are in the same dir as the scripts useful too : http://repository.maemo.org/stable/diablo/INSTALL.txt ;)11:09
vincenzo88Yes my scratchbox work now... after 3 days of research :D11:10
vincenzo88works11:11
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vincenzo88Hmmmm someone know how to create a shortcut of my Qt4 app on tool bar or desktop on N810 ?11:24
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Stskeepsqwerty12: how does your wunder-kernel for maemo look?11:36
Stskeepsor is the point that it shouldn't matter, for the maemo itself?11:36
qwerty12?11:37
Stskeepsqwerty12: well, if you were to select what things a kernel should contain in maemo platform11:37
qwerty12For me, it would have to be jott's rotation & pH5's patch to change the op mode on the fly.11:39
Stskeepsop mode?11:40
Stskeepsisn't that done by cpufreq or?11:40
qwerty12No :(. Op mode regulates what speed the cpu is run at when the dsp is active etc. Op mode (I'm sure) overrides cpufreq and locks it to 330. a performance cpufreq can only run at 330 max when dsp is active11:42
vincenzo88Just a simple quest about CPU : what is the temperature of the N810' Cpu (400 Mhz) with full charge ?11:43
qwerty12s/Op mode (I'm sure) overrides cpufreq and locks it to 330/Op mode (I'm sure) overrides cpufreq and locks it to 330 when dsp is active and 400 when it's not.11:43
Stskeepsah11:44
* Stskeeps wonders how big maemo deep down base system is11:47
RST38hazerty12 ehlo11:49
qwerty12ello FST38h11:49
RST38hinvalid instruction11:49
qwerty12muahahaha11:49
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RST38hNew spam: It's Kim . I'm looking for a business partner. I'm an online auction trader.11:59
RST38hHello, Kim. It is so nice that your are an auction traderlooking for a business partner. Now fuck off. Have a good day.12:00
yacoobRST38h, heh. I've been getting f8 registration confirmations for some guy, that thought yacoob@gmail.com is his email address12:01
qwerty12Hey, Kim. I'm looking for a partner too. You need to have in-depth knowledge of various "business" positions.12:01
yacoobthen, he registered yacoob.yacoob@gmail.com...12:01
yacoob...giving yacoob@gmail.com as his secondary12:01
qwerty12hah, I'll spam that address too now :P12:01
yacoobI could have just reset his password, as the reset links goes to secondary...12:02
yacoobbut I've politely explained things12:02
yacooband after third or so oneline response in "English" ('halp my acont is not leting me in pls respond'), the message seems to have got through12:02
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unixSnob_are you folks satisified with diablo?  I'm about to upgrade from chinook, and read some adverse reviews12:12
Stskeepsso-so12:12
Stskeepsi love the updated osso-xterm12:12
Stskeeps:P12:12
Stskeepsno more ctrl (click a dialog box) crap12:12
unixSnob_the reviews say that diablo crashes a lot, and the email program lost functionality12:12
Stskeepsand modest sucks, admittedly12:13
Stskeepsi haven't had direct crashes though12:13
Stskeepsthere are good and there's bad things12:13
GeneralAntilles The "reviews" are retarded12:13
unixSnob_i can always revert back, right?  guess i'll give it try12:14
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Stskeepsaye12:16
unixSnob_i suspect reverting back would be simple too.. since it'll be flashable at that point12:17
RST38hyacoob: KILL!12:21
RST38hunixSnob: just upgrade and forget abou it12:22
RST38hunixSnob: it is generally better (especially after few SSUs)12:22
unixSnob_where can i find upgrade instructions?  I keep running into broken flash sites12:22
GeneralAntilles~flashing12:22
GeneralAntilles~ssu12:22
infoboti heard flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware12:22
infobotit has been said that ssu is http://wiki.maemo.org/SSU12:22
unixSnob_ty12:23
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RST38h~curse MSVC, Intel data alignment, and whoever defined that braindamaged U64 type12:24
infobotMay you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, MSVC, Intel data alignment, and whoever defined that braindamaged U64 type !12:24
qwerty12Moved on from MIPS cursing? :P12:25
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed#Maemo_Minimal_Base <- anything here that's directly against what Nokia has said / policies or whatever?12:25
GeneralAntillesWould Ubuntu Mobile also be a perk?12:27
Stskeepsi'm honestly not sure it's such a perk, but it would be a possibility on top of this12:27
Stskeepsthat'll come later in terms of design and such12:28
GeneralAntillesLooks fine to me.12:28
suihkulokkidear god, ubuntuists are using arch=arm for eabi?12:28
Stskeepsyes, i was kinda wondering about that too12:29
suihkulokkimother fuckers12:29
Stskeepsi'm sure if there's real interest from maemo towards using mojo, there might be changes :P12:29
Stskeepsas i'm sure the maemo devs think the same12:30
suihkulokkiwell, as far as I see the only reason to use ubuntu is that people have a positive association with ubuntu trademark12:35
* Stskeeps gets out debootstrap of lenny minbase to see12:36
Stskeepssuihkulokki: that, and upstart integration :P12:36
Stskeepsi mean, i had difficulties getting upstart going in debian :P12:36
Stskeeps(but yes, debian as a direct upstream may be better)12:37
Stskeepsfrom the perspective our base is based on ubuntu which is based on debian12:37
Stskeepsbut that's all part of the discussion - doing a proof of concept proposal12:39
suihkulokkiThe fact that these people are still using arm-arch on hardy is really frustrating12:41
suihkulokkiit means that they have purposfully patched the hardy dpkg to do it wrong12:41
Stskeeps*nod*12:44
suihkulokkiso all the work to make sure people don't mix OABI and EABI binaries.. *flush* down the toilet12:45
Stskeepsisn't oabi sortof dead though?12:46
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suihkulokkiStskeeps: there's still the existing installs12:50
Stskeepsmm12:50
Stskeepssuihkulokki: any opinion on busybox vs dash+coreutils+bsdutils on armel devices?12:51
suihkulokkiStskeeps: depends if the target audience is interested in seeing the command line in the first place :)12:57
RST38heMoo12:57
Stskeepstrue12:58
suihkulokkiStskeeps: but with 4G SD card going for 12€ busybox savings are bloody irrelevent12:58
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unixSnob_i'm in the diablo setup, and it's asking for a "device name".. is this the name it will have on the network?13:21
qwerty12No, that is seperate13:21
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qwerty12On the network, by default, it will be Nokia-N800-36-5 (Or N810)13:21
unixSnob_how is it used?13:22
qwerty12Default Bluetooth name, shown in the file manager & application installer13:22
unixSnob_ty13:22
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oilinkihow to check battery status / charge status on n810?13:45
oilinkiI'm trying to get an solution how to charge 1-2 mobile phones and 810 and bt-gps (usb) in a car13:46
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oilinkinow I have 12v->usb 5v,2A adapter which is feeding usb-hub and the devices are charged from the usb-hub.13:47
unixSnob_something is broken.. it's been stuck on restoring document files for like 10 minutes now -- at 9%13:47
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oilinkinokia e61i, n810 and the gps are all charging, but I have no idea how much.13:47
oilinkikind of a nice solution as there is not too many extra cables flying around13:49
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unixSnob_oilinki: usb hubs limit your output to 500ma per port, so you won't get full charging rates13:51
oilinkiunixSnob_: I'm quite ok with that if the charge will at least extend the battery time.13:51
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Stskeepssuihkulokki: well, i'm targeting 250mb flash, so13:52
Stskeeps(with possible unionfs stuff)13:52
unixSnob_feeew.. glad i didn't abandon.. it finally advanced to 10%.. it just takes a heck of a long time to restore apparently13:53
oilinkibut can the usb-hub take more than 500mA in without extera input? now the 12v->5v,2A is feeding the hub via usb-cable13:53
unixSnob_oilinki: the hubs i've seen can accept 1A or more.. but each port only gets 500ma, or 100ma, in order to comply with USB specs13:54
oilinkiunixSnob_: do you remember what is the full input for n810/n800/77013:54
GeneralAntilles89013:55
oilinkiI recall someone said in the channel it's something like .. ok that13:55
oilinkithanks13:55
unixSnob_oilinki: i was doing the same thing in my car (when I had a car)13:55
unixSnob_i found 500ma to be adequite.. but then, i wasn't using it on the long term13:55
unixSnob_I would take a road trip, and chat and hit forums for maybe an hour or two per trip13:56
oilinkiunixSnob_: I think that is quite nice as I'm able to use 220v->usb adapter while traveling as well.13:56
unixSnob_but then i also left with a full battery, so if there was an overall power deficit i may not have noticed13:56
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unixSnob_it would be interesting to know how much power the NIT actually consumes when it's running full blast (high intensity setting, wifi, and bt going)13:58
oilinkiI'm mainly using maemo-mapper while in the car. it does eat a lot of battery13:58
GeneralAntillesMore than 890mA13:59
oilinkinext thing I need to do the same for my scooter :)13:59
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dererkHi there14:08
vincenzo88Hi dererk14:10
dererkvincenzo88, :D14:10
vincenzo88:' =)14:10
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oilinkiinteresting. i'd did a bit of testing with 2 different 220v-> usb adapters. 1st 500mA: n810 and gps are charging happily, but when I connect e61i to it. then the gps module start to flash charging light.14:20
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: 89.5M uncompressed, 37m jffs2, forgot docpurge :)14:20
oilinkiI also tried with e90 and when it was charging the gps-module was not charging at all.14:20
oilinkichanged to 220v->usb 1A and all the devices seemed to be happy of the current.14:21
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, that is some nice results :), when nokia stop supporting the N800, i'll flash your rootfs :p :)14:22
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: i hope to make a hint that a sane platform for maemo is possible14:24
Stskeepswithout all the horrible things14:24
Stskeepsmy goal is Maemo "base" in 110mb flash14:25
Stskeepsor ideally 100mb14:25
qwerty12_N800:)14:26
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unixSnob_12%.. holy shit... why would it take so long to restore?14:45
unixSnob_it took like 1 minute to backup14:45
unixSnob_do the document files have to go through some complex conversion?14:46
Stskeepswhat are you doing, restoring from backup? and noo cle14:46
Stskeepsclue14:46
GeneralAntillesClearly you restored something evil.14:46
unixSnob_yeah, took ~1min to backup chinook data14:46
unixSnob_it's been an hour to restore the "Document files"14:47
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unixSnob_(so far)14:47
oilinkiunixSnob_: how big is the backup file?14:52
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unixSnob_i can't look right now14:53
unixSnob_actually, i can see it14:53
unixSnob_88mb total14:53
lcukunixSnob_, you didnt by any chance backup a .tardis file did you?14:53
unixSnob_lcuk: not sure.. i just checked all the boxes14:53
GeneralAntilleslcuk, he's not a Doctor Who fan, evidently.14:54
qwerty12_N800hehe14:54
* qwerty12_N800 ain't but i gets the tardis reference :p14:54
uncorqheh14:54
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lcukcrap! baconaise on my maemo.org tshirt14:55
lcukunixSnob_, is it actually moving? or does it look frozen14:56
unixSnob_it looks frozen.. but it's just very slow.  it appeared to be hung at 9% an hour ago14:57
RST38hGentlemen, could somebody enlighten me on what SQlite is? Is it a library or a server?14:58
unixSnob_so if I wait an hour for every 2%, i can have this thing ready in 2 days14:58
lcukRST38h, its open source cross platform database file14:58
lcuklike MS access ;)14:58
RST38haha14:58
RST38hlcuk: Can I safely use it from PHP without being afraid that somebody will read my whole db file?14:59
lcukwhy should you be concerned about people reading the whole file?14:59
lcukits open source anmd the file format is documented and many things can read and write to them14:59
RST38hI am concerned about otherpeople reading DATA in the file15:00
Stskeepslcuk: bacon and maemo is very connected15:01
lcukRST38h, yes but it looks a mess dribling down the logo15:02
lcukRST38h, an sqlite database is as readable as a text file15:02
lcukif i want to examine the tables and read the data i can15:02
lcukif thats nto what you want, make your own database format or encrypt all data before writing into the fields15:03
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unixSnob_13%!   hooorey!15:05
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: is there a clear definition (you know, those box diagrams) of maemo platform anywhere?15:05
lcukStskeeps, i recall seeing a nice diagram showing all the software layers15:05
Stskeepsyeah, me too but where.. hm15:06
lcukbut that was many months ago15:06
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, kinda sorta in the documentation somewhere.15:06
unixSnob_should i disconnect the USB cable at this point?  could that be causing problems?15:06
lcukWe're Sorry15:06
lcukFirefox had a problem and crashed. We'll try to restore your tabs and windows when it restarts.15:06
lcukhttp://maemo.org/maemo_training_material/maemo4.x/html/maemo_Getting_Started/Chapter_01_What_is_maemo.html15:07
qwerty12_N800aww, that's nice of firefox15:07
lcukit was15:07
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lcukStskeeps, i think thats what i recall seeing (scroll down a bit)15:08
Stskeepslcuk: ta15:09
GeneralAntillesI don't get the desire for a stylus-only UI.15:11
Stskeepsadaptable ui maybe15:12
GeneralAntillesI mean, sure, the Newton had a great stylus UI15:12
Stskeepscan be switched to be finger,stylus or lick15:12
lcuki totally understand using a stylus for certain applications: i stopped finger painting when i was about 515:12
GeneralAntillesBut Maemo certainly hasn't ever had anything close to that.15:12
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lcuklike i have said - a decent ui should be fingerable15:13
lcukit should be easy to use with finger or stylus without aiming15:13
lcuka better ui involves imprecise actions with finger, but to do specific things use the stylus15:14
oilinkii agree. it's troublesome to take the stylus out and start using it. better without.15:14
lcuk(the menus in liqbase are all fingerable, but they have a 2mm nobble in the corner that you cannot hit with finger alone - these do not get in the way but can be used in specific circumstances)15:15
dererkdid anyone got PAN or any IP stack over bluetooth work?15:16
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lcukStskeeps, finer, stylus or liq?15:16
Stskeepshehe15:17
GeneralAntilleshttps://wiki.maemo.org/Bluetooth_PAN15:17
* Stskeeps ponders how to move from minimal system base to higher level..15:17
Stskeepsbluetooth pan is awesome15:18
Stskeeps.. the thing, not always the app15:18
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lcukwhat do you cook on your bluetooth pan?15:18
* Stskeeps pokes w00t with a burning stick15:19
w00tow15:19
dererkGeneralAntilles, Hi and thanks :) although I couldn finde the binaries that the howto points to :S15:20
GeneralAntilles~extras15:20
infobotrumour has it, extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras15:20
dererkchecking15:21
oilinkidoes bluetooth pan increase latency?15:21
dererkGeneralAntilles, ah, wasn't that15:22
dererkthis was http://maemo.org/community/wiki/howto-bluetoothnetworking-dun-ppp15:22
dererkdon't know much how this works15:22
dererkI just need it to have an ip :P15:22
oilinkiI'm soon in the situation that I have to use gprs/edge for connectivity. now using joikuspot pro to share wlan connectivity.15:23
oilinkigrps with joikuspot is no no for ssh connections. egde might do. I'm not sure how much latency the ad-hoc wlan routing does increase the latency, but would love to know if there is better alternatives.15:24
muuoilinki, does it work well ?15:24
muujoikuspot i mean15:24
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oilinkimuu: joikuspot itself drains the battery of s60 very fast. othervice ok. my problem is the latency in the thai mobile network.15:26
lcukwell its not like you are playin warcraft from your tablet (though you can play diablo ;) )15:26
oilinkijoikuspot itself is free with http/https connectivity. definately worth of trying.15:27
* dererk need just conectivity X)15:27
dererkdo anyone of you have "pand" binary? :S15:28
qwerty12_N800it's in bluez-utils-test15:28
oilinkijoikuspot pro was the first and only mobile software I have ever bought.15:28
dererkchecking15:29
muui have a symbian phone (e51), i'll try joikuspot, but i think battery will be very 'stressed' using gprs/umts + wifi...15:29
oilinkimuu: it does.15:29
muui know there is another sw similar to joikuspot, but i don't remember the name ;-)15:29
Stskeepsinteresting, vala in HAF trunk15:29
dererkmuu, wifi eats the battery up15:30
dererkbluetooth is really economic-saving15:30
dererkqwerty12_N800, could you check from which repository?15:30
dererkapt-cache policy bluez-utils-test15:31
oilinkimuu: I'm a bit confused. the first versions I used eated the battery in couple of hours. new versions might be better. I have only used it with charger on.15:31
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, there had been some discussion about which language should be added to the officially supported ones, don't recall the result.15:31
lcukvala, vala, vala, vala, vala, vala, vala, vala, vala, vala, vala,15:32
Stskeepspython or vala? pfft :P15:32
qwerty12_N800dererk,         500 http://repository.maemo.org diablo/sdk/free Packages aka diablo sdk repo15:32
dererkoh15:32
lcukpython is good in its own interpreted way, vala is compiled - they dont stamp on each others toes15:32
dererkqwerty12_N800, never heard before about diablo braches15:32
dererkqwerty12_N800, thanks! :D15:33
oilinkidererk: while I was traveling, I managed to get  ad-hoc wifi working.. but not bluetooth connection on my laptop.. good reason to test the joikuspot :)15:33
dererkoilinki, oh oh, well, that's the only option then :)15:33
dererkoilinki, but there's a fact, bluetooth was concivied to be energy-saving gadgets15:34
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oilinkidererk: with max 10KBps it's worth of not spending time with google :)15:34
dererkXD15:34
dererkhahaha15:34
oilinkidererk: true, bt is way better than wlan in certain cases. like when on the road with car.15:35
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dererkoilinki, what you mean?15:35
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oilinkidererk: I need to drive every now and then about 900Km one  way here in thailand. on my first trip I had joikuspot on e61i and maemomapper on n810. I also had couple of extra batteries... well after 500Km batteries were empty.15:38
oilinkinext trips I used bt connection between the devices and I could go way further.. specially using the gps/map information on the destination where I really needed it.15:39
lcuknokia should use duracells15:39
dererklol15:39
dererkoilinki, pretty interesting!15:39
dererkoilinki, (thailand! nice place!)15:39
oilinkiin these cases need to find some solutions how to get all the way :)15:40
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oilinkidererk: I know... that's why I live here ;)15:40
dererk:D15:41
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muufuel cell15:42
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muu:)15:42
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dererklol15:43
oilinkiin a way it's good to live here as there are different problems here as well. for people in europe or us it's difficult to understand the problems in here.. even what the veeeeery slow netwoks can do.15:43
lcukmuu, the day i have to have a drinking competition with my computer will be the day the machiens have won15:45
oilinkihih15:45
oilinkican I quote that?15:45
lcukif you fix the typos15:45
dererklol15:46
muuhihihi15:46
muubeer vs Grappa match ? ;-)15:47
dererkmy maemo is running more processes than my pc, lol15:48
* dererk needs to speed-up this box, there's a little "detail" on running 2008he on a n770 :P15:48
lcukdererk, are you a coder, or a user?15:49
dererklcuk, honestly, I consider I'm just in the middle15:49
* muu is learning StarOffice BASIC...15:49
* muu want an N800 with an atom inside :)15:49
lcukcould i ask you to try something on your 770 and report results15:50
lcukmuu, surprisingly, your n800 has many atoms inside15:50
lcukwhy would you want just one?15:50
lcukit would be a bit small to hold15:50
lcukand the dpi would be indescribable15:50
dererkmuu, lol15:51
Stskeepsmuu: i wouldn't want an atom in my n800.15:51
Stskeepsbattery life would be death15:51
dererklcuk, sure!15:52
dererkROTFL15:52
dererkhahahaha15:52
lcukdererk, my app is installable from diablo extras and has a website here http://liqbase.net im interested to discover whats going wrong on 770, if you could install it and perhaps try to run it from the console and send me the output i would be most appreciative15:52
* dererk neither would15:52
dererkindeed!15:52
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dererklcuk, by now you didn't name it :P15:53
lcukthen see the site :)15:53
lcukand watch the video15:53
dererkI can't see swf from here15:54
dererki can see some kind of square15:54
dererkis that the app?15:54
muu<Stskeeps> battery life would be death15:55
lcukits a very fast graphical playground, has sketching and bookreaders and fullscreen kinetic scrolling and a load of nice next gen things15:55
lcukand bacon15:55
dererkqwerty12_N800, thanks! got the package15:55
qwerty12_N800:)15:55
dererklcuk, ok. liqbase is the pkg name?15:55
lcukyes15:55
lcukhttp://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/liqbase/15:56
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dererklcuk, you don't include spyware and maleware, right?15:56
* dererk laughs :D15:56
dererksorry, bad practises :P)15:56
lcukdererk, yes, i include both of those thing15:56
lcuks15:56
dererk:P15:56
lcukactually, no maleware though, just regular malware15:56
muuok, but a real x86....15:56
muumean more apps and less work to port15:56
lcukno15:57
lcukthe porting problems are not mostly caused by x86 issues15:57
Stskeepswhat lcuk said15:57
lcukits the distro and other libs available, once compiled from c to whichever arch 99% of apps are fine15:58
Stskeepslcuk: saw https://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed#Maemo_SDK ?15:58
lcukyeah i did15:58
Stskeepsk15:58
* lcuk is keeping ontop of most of the wiki15:58
* lcuk has ideas15:58
oilinkilcuk: first wideo is no usable, youtube is ok, but it takes a long time to download it.15:58
Stskeepslcuk: feel free to contribute items15:59
lcukoilinki, the first video is from vimeo: http://vimeo.com/2073283?pg=embed&sec=207328315:59
Stskeepsi use === ~~~~ ==== to seperate ideas/proposals15:59
lcukStskeeps, im thinking more ui15:59
Stskeeps*nod*15:59
lcukand im thinking that everything people are asking for (taking the pim as an example) could be achieved nicely on this device15:59
Stskeepsmy target is everything going on under the shell16:00
lcukyou know my thinking: write for lowest common denominator and stretch into faster hardware.  that way current devices carry on working16:00
lcukapt-get install coffee16:01
GeneralAntillesX-Plane on the iPhone16:01
GeneralAntillesI want that.16:01
* dererk PAN is working \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ \o/ 16:02
GeneralAntilleslcuk, UI is an issue for farther down the road.16:03
dererkmany thanks GeneralAntilles qwerty12_N800 lcuk and all16:03
GeneralAntillesThe platform stuff is particularly important now because of the alpha SDK coming out in December.16:03
dererkGeneralAntilles, Diablo?16:03
GeneralAntillesFremantle16:03
lcukGeneralAntilles, yes i know16:05
Stskeepsa paradigm change might also save n800,n810s for fremantle too16:06
lcukbut its rolling around my head and its what im good at thinking about and i know nothing about the requirements of an sdk16:06
lcuki managed to add a new input method last night16:06
dererkany elegant way to get wlan iface down, without using a terminal?16:06
lcuktheres a nobble icon at the top for connecting and disconnecting16:06
lcukStskeeps, im very interested in on device debugging and breakpoints16:07
lcuknotably without jumping through a 500 line console invokation16:08
oilinkilcuk: you presented the application on maemo summit. why the display was not on full screen?16:08
lcukwhat do you mean "not full screen" liqbase is solely a fullscreen app16:09
lcukor did you mean the framing on the projector?16:09
oilinkiyes16:09
lcukthats simply me not holding 810 under the camera properly :$16:09
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oilinkilcuk: hoho. I tought there would be another ways to export the screen to the audience :)16:10
dererkI'm a bit lost since I was out some time16:10
dererkdiablo is chinook sucessor, right?16:11
GeneralAntillesdererk, the wikipedia article has a nice version table.16:11
lcukoilinki, :) no, this device was born on maemo, its compiled on device and worked on in its little plantpot, but now its growing up somewhat16:11
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lcuknone of the emulators can display its output16:11
lcukand itwas only very recently i learnt how to export images from it16:11
lcuki cant use the usb-vga device16:12
lcukbecause of the graphical limitations of the current platform i had to do some lateral thinkign to get it running :)16:12
dererkchecking16:12
oilinkilcuk: I mean the fellows who are running the show could  provide some ways to show the display to the audience.16:13
lcukthey did16:13
lcukand it worked16:13
lcukREALLY well :D16:13
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oilinkilcuk: well, not on the display :)16:14
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lcukis anyone here who saw the live presentation of liqbase on the big projector?16:14
alsorhi, is there gtk+2.12.12 deb package for maemo available to download?16:14
lcukand did it work16:15
lcukoilinki, i spent the night before the summit in my hotel room with a 12 pack of duracells and my camera trying to record short short clips of what liqbase could do, my craptop failed at the last hurdle and i nearly never got to present16:16
lcukluckily the overhead cam/projector was moved so we could show in the main room and it worked a treat (barring my software problem at the start)16:17
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lopzhola16:20
lcukdererk, did you manage to install it?16:22
oilinkilcuk: kind of a last hope :)16:23
lcukit worked though :)16:24
dererklcuk, nope, not yet,16:24
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Stskeepsalsor: you can probably check it out from svn from stage.maemo.org16:26
lcukoilinki, im very paper oriented.  for the application to work it has to be fluid and intuitive16:26
Stskeepsalsor: and compile in scratchbox16:26
oilinkilcuk: I  watched your video. it's impressive what you do with the display.16:27
lcukoilinki, :) its only the start, im still finding my feet but every day i manage to do something else and its growing steadily16:28
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alsorStskeeps: oh, yes, that might be the only way available:) my connection to stage.maemo.org is really *SLOW*...pity16:34
alsorStskeeps: thanks for that info:)16:34
oilinkilcuk: I wonder how to use the skills in more everyday tasks.16:37
lcukoilinki, :) theres many ways - for instance ive got a kinetic calendar seed here16:38
lcukim just seeing how practical i can make it16:38
oilinkilcuk: kinetic calendar could be nice, but what about changing the whole user interface?16:39
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lcukexplain..16:39
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pupnikYou guys have to hear Francis E. Dec - amazing rants.... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Francis_E._Dec16:52
pupnikyou can get the Dec rants here: http://www.ubu.com/sound/dec.html16:52
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dererklcuk, couldn't find it on diablo/sdk/free16:53
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lcukhttp://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/liqbase/16:56
lcukdererk, its there16:56
lcuktheres a .install on the page there ^16:56
lcukthat will fix your repos if they are wrong16:56
RST38hpupnik: There are illustrations!16:57
pupnikof what RST38h ?16:58
RST38hpupnik: to crazy conspiracy theories!16:58
RST38hpupnik: Enjoy http://alexrex.info/ufo/16:58
pupniki didn't see them on the.  oh ok16:59
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pupnikhah nice16:59
RST38hSorry that commentaries are all in Russian: they are real fun to read, from psychiatric point of view16:59
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JaffaAfternoon, all17:14
Stskeepsafternoon, Jaffa17:16
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: size of kernel partition?17:20
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, 2048 Kb17:21
Stskeepsk17:21
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* Stskeeps is trying to move his way forward in his proposal and is getting some areas where he may not know enough17:29
pupnikdo we have pulse audio for maemo?17:29
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pupnikhttp://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=182379  hmm17:30
Stskeepspupnik: it'll come17:31
Stskeepsin fremantle17:31
pupnikYAAY!17:31
pupnik:D17:31
Stskeeps(.. which seems long time away)17:32
pupnik" I recently setup a pulse-audio "network" in my house for streaming audio between rooms/backyard/etc and have thought about options for other hardware instead of full blown Linux PCs."17:33
pupnikcourse, there's the option of an FM transmitter....17:33
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pupnikwb ssvb17:33
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ssvbhi pupnik17:40
* RST38h is almost ready to give up and install YouAmp17:41
lbtpupnik: have you looked at slimserver? or do you want to play with pulse?17:45
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pupniki haven't lbt... i thought it was mainly for playing music off shared drives17:46
lbtYou can use it as audio distribution17:47
lbtand if you actually have squeezeboxes you can turn them on/off remotely17:47
lbtit can stream from internet radio (and of course you can set up your own streamer)17:48
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Stskeepslbt: saw my Maemo Reconstructed work-in-progress yet?17:53
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lbtStskeeps: where's that?17:54
Stskeepshttps://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed17:54
lbt(I'm rebuilding egroupware and getting ready to work on caldav)17:54
lbt(as in "ooh, shiny")17:54
lbtI think you may consider that 'hackable' is a key selling point for any hardware that pupports to be OSS friendly17:56
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lbtso Nokia should have a very low level hook like initfs - and I raised a bug about that IIRC17:56
lbtwe need a grub-like kernel selection system from initfs17:58
Stskeepskexec? :P17:58
lbtI typed that and then changed it to a requirement, not a solution ;)17:59
lcukbbl chaps17:59
Stskeepshehe17:59
lbttata17:59
lcukoh hi lbt :) cya later on18:00
Stskeepslbt: but this is the kind of discussion i'm hoping to spark :P18:02
lbtyep - I'm discussing ...18:03
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pupnikRon Paul was right18:40
koyotepon raul?18:40
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sthistleanyone know how i can update that map for date/time on my n810 to have my home city or even one in my timezone?18:44
qwerty12sthistle, http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=2072918:45
sthistlethx. will check that18:46
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sthistlehey qwert12, will that also fix my timezone? my emails are off by 30 mins18:54
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qwerty12No idea :/18:55
sthistlemy timezone is nst:330:ndt18:55
sthistlegmt-3:30 :)18:55
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lcukingenious! http://www.foundshit.com/bacon-bowl-salad/19:13
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GeneralAntillesYou spend your days browsing the internet for bacon now, don't you?19:14
lcukno gen, i was browsing foundshit and spotted that19:14
lcukwas not actively seeking bacon, but my radar pinged19:15
GeneralAntillesDon't lie.19:15
lcukim upto http://www.foundshit.com/page/17/ now :P19:15
lcukid already passed plenty of bacon19:15
lcukactually gen, i think you are right19:16
lcuki searched google for bacon, foundshit is #2 and they had a bra seciton which made me look closer19:16
lcukhttp://www.foundshit.com/tag/brassiere/19:16
lcukit was cos tracy said "that doesnt look like bacon (the stars in liqbase) and i attempted to prove her wrong lol19:17
lcukomg im bacon obsessed19:17
lcuk:'(19:17
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derfI've seen all of this bacon before.19:17
derfAnd I don't actively search for it at all.19:17
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lcukbacon thread on itT :D19:23
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zakkmlcuk, do you remember me?19:25
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lcukim not paying child support19:25
zakkmlol19:26
zakkmdo you remember me though? tried to buy a nokia off craigslist, person didnt show up.19:26
lcukzakkm, kindof, did you get one eventually19:27
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zakkmyeah i got one last night.. for $14519:28
zakkmnice condition, came with box and everything19:28
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zakkmwould you happen to know why on the newest diablo, canola 2 beta 9 .. it says invalid url ? for youtube vids ?19:28
lcukno19:29
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zakkmalso your liqbase, can it read pdf's ?19:29
zakkmfor the document viewing19:29
zakkmi like it :)19:29
zakkmAlso, does metacrawler bug still exist ?19:30
lcuknot at this time, txt only for now19:30
zakkmis it okay for large txts ?19:30
zakkmlike 100-200 page pdf's ?19:30
zakkmif i were to convert to txt?19:30
lcuki think i have a limit of 32 or 64mb of plaintext19:31
lcukand it can handle them fine19:32
zakkmill split it then19:32
zakkmdoes usb ,, charge it?19:32
zakkmusb charging?19:32
lcukno19:32
lcukcharger charging, but you can get usb->chargerneedle19:32
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zakkmhe forgot to give me a charger, though he said he would send it.. and i do believe he will... i need it charged sooner19:33
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lcuki have an emergency charger (generic brand) that has the right sized needle19:34
zakkmwould it break it?19:35
zakkmif it wasnt nokia?19:35
zakkmlike should i try to find a generic one in my house that fits?19:35
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vincenzo88hi19:35
GeneralAntillesAssuming it has the right polarity and voltage19:36
lcukzakkm, check voltages etc and dont try to shove something thats the wrong size into the hole and you will be ok19:36
zakkmyeah i would make sure it has the right size19:36
zakkmbut voltage and "polarity" im not sure about19:36
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zakkmmy friend has a nokia phone .. and that fitted perfectly .. but he uses it for his phone so i cant really borrow it19:37
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lcuksure you can19:39
lcukopen source, buy him a beer, sit and have a chat - in an hour or two it will be charged19:40
zakkmcan you do me a favor?19:40
zakkmi found a charger that says nokia19:40
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zakkmwould it work fine?19:40
zakkmnokia + fits hole?19:41
qwerty12What's the model number?19:41
GeneralAntillesYes19:41
lcukcan you read?19:41
zakkmlcuk: i did that yesterday19:41
zakkmwhere would i see model number?19:41
lcuklook at the voltage on the charger, and look at the stuff in your manual19:41
qwerty12If it's an AC-3x, it won't work. I've used an AC-4x (the one that comes with the N800) & a AC-5x (my current charger) fine19:41
zakkmoutput DC-5V19:42
zakkmAC-4U19:42
zakkmit says19:42
zakkmi actually think it was the one i used for my old 77019:42
zakkmeither way its 100% safe right.. just might not work?19:43
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qwerty12should be. I even wired up an old nokia charger with a new connector, didn't work but it didn't mess up the tablet either19:43
lardmanafternoon all19:43
qwerty12hi lardman19:44
Mouseyhi19:44
lardmanqwerty12: beautiful and sunny where you are too? ;)19:44
zakkmsweet it worked :D19:45
qwerty12lardman: yep, the sunshine is just making this room beam :P19:45
lardman:)19:45
Mouseythe connector which fits the n810 is a standard 105 connector19:45
zakkmdoes the groymayor repo of 2008 list.. is that for chinook or diablo.. or both ?19:45
GeneralAntilleszakkm, forgot gronmayer19:46
GeneralAntilles~extras19:46
infobotsomebody said extras was http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras19:46
qwerty12I converted a 5mb djvu ebook to pdf and the fucking pdf is at 293MB >.<19:46
GeneralAntilles^ that's all you need.19:46
zakkmuhh19:46
lardmanqwerty12: lol, each page a bitmap then now?19:46
zakkmi did that, not many apps :D19:46
lardmanthen now, strange language I use19:46
qwerty12lardman, probably, I have to say, it's good quality :P19:47
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lardmanqwerty12: zoom in, rendered text should be better than scaled bitmap19:47
qwerty12I'm running it through acrobat's compression, lets see what it comes out with19:47
qwerty12lardman, I can't now, it's starting to compress it now :(19:48
zakkmanyone know why youtube vids wont play in canola2 beta 9 .. *invalid url"19:48
lcuki really should dig out my pdf parser19:49
zakkmis the built in web browser, the best to use ?19:49
lcukhiya simon19:49
Stskeeps"I have been thinking about trying to compile some ubuntu-mobile packages. Just for fun. I have never compiled anything"19:49
lardmanhi gary19:49
Stskeepsthat man is in for a lot of pain19:49
lardmanlcuk: nice bacon topic19:49
Garylardman: ?19:50
lcukheh, i shouldv added more19:50
lcukheh gary, he was talki nto me :D19:50
lardmanGary: sorry, lcuk has same name19:50
Garyahh, hehe19:50
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Garyhe doesn't there is only one Gary19:50
lardmanhmm, anyone know of a PC gaming related irc channel?19:51
GeneralAntilleszakkm, no you didn't.19:51
lcuklardman? x-box live?19:51
lcukor the steam ones?19:51
GeneralAntillesIf there "aren't many apps" then you didn't enable Extras.19:51
lardmanlcuk: PC gaming....19:51
zakkmlol19:51
zakkmthere are a lot of apps, but i thought there would be more, i remember more in like 2006 on my 770 ..19:51
zakkmbut then again i installed alott of repos19:52
* lardman might have to take a disassember to this bloody game to work out why it's not starting up19:52
lcuksi, a decent renderer for live diary view - when i have done timelines before now (in schedular/tasks app at dayjob) I used a query which returned tasks overlapping the displayed region, but im thinking changing the granuality to only lookup tasks/events within a single day19:53
lcukhave you had a look at the performance of sqlite yet19:53
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lcuk(a decent diary view is similar in principle to mapping tiles algorythm)19:53
lcuki19:54
lardmanno, I've not looked at it yet, still writing code19:55
lardmanthough I think overlap is important really, you should know if the task finishes at the end of your region of interest or beyond it19:55
lcukoh yeah, the query im used to using basically is if task.end >= view.start && task.start <= view.end19:56
lcukthat catches anything which starts or finishes or overlaps the view region19:56
lcukive got a mockup here with a timeline scalable from 1 week to 5 years19:57
lcukand it performs nicely19:57
lcukive got @ 15000 task items from my work database in there19:57
lcukwrong format and language though19:57
lcuki never did enough in sqlite to try to work on it - i need to convert the mdb to sqlite and get some simple recordset wrapper to begin checking it19:58
lcukanyway, brb t19:58
zakkmis canola2 beta 10 safe to use ?20:06
zakkmAlso, is it faster to use maemo , booting from SD?20:06
GeneralAntillesDepends on the card20:06
zakkmif i were to buy one specifically20:06
GeneralAntillesAs long as its class 620:07
GeneralAntillesThough, honestly, most of the speedup comes from not using a compressed filesystem20:07
zakkmwouldnt compress = slower?20:08
GeneralAntillesYeah, that's exactly my point. ;)20:08
zakkmoh.. when you copy to SD, its uncompressed?20:08
lardmanNAND uses jffs220:08
lardmanyes, SD uses extX20:08
lardmanwhere X=2|320:09
zakkmnot 4? :P20:09
lardmannot unless you have a kernel module for that ;)20:09
zakkmdoes these class 6 cards come in 1-2gb ?20:10
GeneralAntillesNo20:11
GeneralAntilles1-2GB isn't SDHC20:11
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RST38hmoo again20:11
zakkmcant afford much, just bought the nokia yesterday, made me broke20:11
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halleyWhat comes next after N810?  The WiMax thing is a joke in the US.20:22
zakkmwhats irreco ?20:23
GAN800halley, a tablet with OMAP3, HSPA and an HD camera sometime next year.20:24
halleyHSPA looks useful but never even heard of it.  What carriers will do something in US?20:27
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GAN800AT&T, t-mobile, etc.20:28
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unixSnobfinally finished my restore process, after ~7 hours20:59
RST38hStarship Troopers on TV21:00
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RST38hCute movie - they took Heinlein's antiwar pamphlet, gave actors nazi uniforms and made every american proud of it21:02
zakkmis there any good tricks to making free calls over nokia n80021:03
RST38hzakkm: Skype or VoIP computer to computer21:04
zakkmwhat about sip and stuff?21:04
zakkmgrandcentral maybe?21:04
RST38hWhen I said VoIP I meant SIP21:04
zakkmi know21:04
zakkmbut i meant calling house phones21:04
RST38hNever tried GrandCentral21:05
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aspiershi all, I applied the latest OS updates and at some point my list of repos broke, e.g. Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/dists/diablo/free/binary-armel/Packages.gz  404 Not Found21:27
aspiersany ideas how that happened?  now I only see sdk and tools under http://repository.maemo.org/dists/diablo/21:28
aspiersin other words, what is the "base" diablo repo? is it at maemo.org or http://catalogue.tableteer.nokia.com ?21:29
Stskeepsthat's a good question :P21:29
qwerty12_N800aspiers, if you want the diablo equivalent of that chinook repo: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3405#c621:29
unixSnobdamn.. grandcentral doesn't work on the new OS21:29
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unixSnobit almost works.. but data entry is screwed up21:30
lopzhola21:30
GeneralAntillesaspiers, there is no "base" repo.21:30
aspiersqwerty12_N800: thanks! I recognise your nick since the whole point of this exercise is to install emacs...21:30
qwerty12_N800heh :)21:31
GeneralAntillesThere are development repositories, community software repositories, commercial software repositories, and upgrades repositories.21:31
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sp3000and cake21:31
GeneralAntillesThe cake is a lie!21:31
Stskeeps(i still don't get the point of upgrade repos)21:32
aspiersGeneralAntilles: by "base" I mean, if you flash a device with the most recent firmware, then apply any updates which are offered online, what do you end up with?21:32
aspiersGeneralAntilles: without changing your list of repos, that is21:32
GeneralAntillesAn upgrade repo, some commercial software repos and a community repo (disabled)21:32
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, control, I guess.21:32
GeneralAntillesversion x will only ever be exposed to packages from version y.21:33
GeneralAntillesStupid, sure, but Nokia's all about the baby steps.21:33
unixSnobnice.. grandcentral works, as long as you enter your username and password on the notepad, and use copy/paste21:33
aspiersso what repo does this page refer to? http://ageofikon.info/packrat/index.php?Action=list&System=OS2008&Arg=libxaw7&Section=&Repo=021:33
aspierslibxaw7.install has uri http://repository.maemo.org/ and components free and non-free21:34
aspiersbut that doesn't seem to refer to anything21:34
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i guess update repos can be a way to do controlled upgrades of stable21:34
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: got any wiki references to the whole stable/unstable package repos discussion? think i saw it recently21:35
GeneralAntillesIt was only brought up by Quim on -developers21:35
Stskeepsalright21:35
lcuk\o/ i have 99 karma21:37
* GeneralAntilles thumbs lcuk21:38
zakkmwould http://canadacomputers.com/index.php?do=ShowProduct&cmd=pd&pid=013337&cid=990 be good to boot from SD with?21:38
zakkmTranscend SDHC Class 6 SDA 2.0 8GB (TS8GSDHC6)21:38
zakkm$19.9921:38
zakkmPerformance  Approx. 19MB/sec Read; 13MB/sec Write21:39
lcukzakkm, get used to the system first - you will then gain skills to jump to there21:39
aspiersis it just me or is the repo in this page broken? http://ageofikon.info/packrat/index.php?Action=list&System=OS2008&Arg=libxaw7&Section=&Repo=021:39
zakkmlcuk: i used to own a 770 .. for many months21:39
zakkmits just recently , that i have a n80021:39
* Stskeeps glances at http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-commits/2008-October/011689.html21:40
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Stskeepsor rather, https://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/doc/mvo/system-model-2.txt21:41
GeneralAntillesYeah, we found it a few weeks ago.21:42
aspiersis there a way of installing local .debs which follows dependencies too?21:42
zakkmwhere would i see about Canola help? the youtube plugin.. brings out invalid url .. whenever i select a video21:42
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: seems like the right direction21:43
* Stskeeps wouldn't so much mind a active harmattan than a fremantle overhaul21:43
Stskeepswhere the harmattan would be cutting edge or something21:43
GeneralAntillesHuh?21:44
Stskeeps.. nm21:44
GeneralAntillesHarmattan is probably 5.121:44
Stskeepsgf has me on some herbal inhalation stuff, i'm drugged out :)21:44
GeneralAntillesHa21:44
lcukzakkm, 5.1? more like at least 6 or 721:44
lcuk-zakkm21:44
zakkm5.1 ?21:45
zakkmohh youtube plugin?21:45
GeneralAntilleslcuk, it's either 5.1 or 621:45
GeneralAntillesPeriod.21:45
GeneralAntillesNokia doesn't have a clue how they want to use their codenames.21:45
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: .. which is probably why i'm having so much ease in dealing with the reconstructed stuff, it's hideously tedious without21:45
zakkmIm using the newest diablo21:45
zakkmi downloaded yesterday21:45
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zakkmlcuk, GeneralAntilles, where would i find version ?21:47
lcukeh? version of what?21:48
GeneralAntilleslcuk, 1.x had no codename. 2.0, 2.1, and 2.2 each had their own codename. 3.0, 3.1 and 3.2 were all Bora. 4.0 and 4.1 each had their own codename.21:48
GeneralAntillesSo, assuming Nokia has actually settled down into something remotely logical in their codenaming, then Harmattan is 5.1.21:49
GeneralAntillesPower profiles aren't exactly a 5-to-6 feature addition.21:49
GeneralAntillesThere's absolutely zero chance of it being 7.21:49
lcukyeah, but i was under the impression harmattan was a total hand waving exercise and complete departure from current systems, hence its not likely to be a point release21:49
lcukchinook->diablo == more of the same21:50
lcukfremantle == different21:50
lcukharmattan == blow you away21:50
Stskeepsfremantle with UI focus and harmattan as system overhaul, maybe21:50
zakkmSo how would i fix this canola youtube thingy?21:51
GeneralAntilles'course, with Fremantle pushing the yearly cycle way out of whack, Harmattan could come as Maemo 6 pretty soon after Fremantle's out.21:51
Stskeepsi mean, thinking of it, didn't N800 start with OS2007, then N810 came along with 08?21:51
lcukby reading the docs about canola? by reading the canola stuff? by going into the #canola channel21:51
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lcukzakkm by reading the docs about canola? by reading the canola stuff? by going into the #canola channel21:52
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lcukits all useless anyway, we dont even know how clear fremantle will be21:52
GeneralAntilles"clear"?21:53
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lcukback later movie time quantum of solice is waiting21:53
halleysolace21:53
lcukyeah, what the interface is gonna be like, how we are gonna use it etc21:53
* aspiers feels rather invisible :-/21:53
lcukyeah that as well21:53
GeneralAntillesaspiers, short answer: no, long answer: yes, but it's a bigger time investment than just grabbing the dependencies manually.21:54
lcukaspiers, the deps can only come from the file its contained in or the repos you have installed21:55
halleycouldn't you run a localhost repo?21:55
lcukyes but no1 does cos its a lot of faffing21:55
aspiershalley: that sounds like a lot of work21:55
lcukfor not much benefit - use the maemo repos21:55
GeneralAntillesJust apt-get or dpkg -i your way through the dependency tree21:56
GeneralAntillesIt wont take long.21:56
aspiersI have emacs installed and running nicely now, but my concern is for other people who want to achieve the same and have less experience with dpkg/apt etc. than I do (and I don't have much)21:56
aspiersit all seems quite difficult for newbies21:57
GeneralAntillesaspiers, then package Extras, request upload privileges and upload it.21:57
GeneralAntilles~uploading-extras21:57
infoboti guess uploading-extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Uploading_to_Extras21:57
GeneralAntillesOr convince somebody else to do it.21:57
aspiersGeneralAntilles: I will try to find some time21:57
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GeneralAntillesemacs aint exactly a newbie request21:57
aspierstrue21:57
aspiersbut surely other things depend on libxaw7 for instance21:58
aspiersam kind of surprised that Ulysses' emacs didn't make it into extras considering the download link is on garage21:58
GeneralAntillesUlysses didn't follow through21:58
GeneralAntillesGarage really doesn't have anything to do with Extras, anyway.21:59
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GeneralAntillesHarass Ulysses about uploading it.21:59
aspiersdamn, I lost the X11 keysym for euro22:00
aspiersEuroSign?22:00
aspiersaccording to /usr/include/X11/keysymdef.h anyway22:00
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andre____...so the N810 wimax edition is now officially available in stores, or not? if so, since when?22:03
GeneralAntillesIt's shipping from online retails22:04
GeneralAntillesdunno about stores22:04
GeneralAntillesnot more than a few weeks.22:04
halleyIs WiMax common in .de ?22:04
halleyIt's fuck-all useless in .us22:04
GeneralAntillesUnless you're in a city with WiMAX22:04
GeneralAntillesThen it's pretty damn useful.22:04
andre____wimax is not common at all in .de22:05
halleyWhich is, count 'em, Baltimore.22:05
GeneralAntillesand Dallas22:05
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halleyEr, according to XOHM site, Dallas is a "coming soon."22:05
halleyAnd has been.22:05
GeneralAntillesI know Texrat is using WiMAX just fine in Dallas.22:06
GeneralAntillesBut recall 3g22:06
Stskeepshmm. this maemo system model is part 2, did anyone find part 1?22:06
halleyKnowing that it will be more widespread in 2012 does not help me want to use a 2008 device.22:06
GeneralAntillesIt took, what, 6 months to go from a few cities to over a dozen?22:06
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, context?22:07
Stskeepshttps://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/doc/mvo/system-model-2.txt22:07
GeneralAntillesOh22:07
GeneralAntillesDon't think it's out.22:07
RST38h22:07
Stskeepsk22:07
GeneralAntillesYou could ask on the mailing list, though.22:07
GeneralAntillesSomebody should probably engage Quim on the whole "would opening the flasher be useful?" thing?22:08
Stskeepsisn't it already reverse engineered in 0xffff?22:08
GeneralAntilless/?/./222:08
GeneralAntillesNot completely22:08
GeneralAntillesand not always reliably.22:08
Stskeepstrue22:08
Stskeepsmy e-mail is down for 24 hours so i would, but can't :P22:09
GeneralAntillesOnly one email account?22:09
Stskeepsprimary e-mail22:09
Stskeepsis this a -developers, -users, -community?22:09
GeneralAntilles-developers22:10
Stskeepshmm, let's see if i can find it22:10
Stskeeps(the post)22:10
GeneralAntilles-users is for "hoa do u uz app mngr???"22:10
w00tStskeeps needs to get a life22:10
* w00t nods22:10
GeneralAntillesOh22:10
* GeneralAntilles inhaled some of Stskeeps' drugs.22:10
GeneralAntillesStskeeps: https://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages#Specific_reasons_for_packages22:11
Stskeepsw00t: says you. got a tablet yet? :P22:11
Stskeepsah22:11
GeneralAntillesSee the flasher entry.22:11
w00tStskeeps: i'm trying very hard not to buy more tech at the moment22:11
Pavlovall i want for christmas is an accelerated x server22:11
GeneralAntillesPavlov, maybe next year.22:11
Stskeepseh :P accelerated in terms of 3d or 2d? :P22:11
Stskeepsor xv?22:11
Pavlov2d, or even you know, arm optimized22:12
GeneralAntilleslcuk has been looking to implement a web browser in liqbase, though. . . .22:12
Pavlovheh22:13
StskeepsPavlov: eh. :P xomap is pretty dedicated towards being arm/omap optimized22:13
Pavlovnot really22:13
Pavlovyou should take a look at the source ;)22:13
Stskeepsi did briefly and decided i had better things to spend time at22:14
Stskeeps:P22:14
andre__GeneralAntilles, there's discussion to open the flasher22:14
andre__and if Stskeeps has some good drugs, then don't bogart them! pass 'em! ;-)22:15
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GeneralAntillesandre__, more than is on that wiki page?22:16
woglindehi22:16
andre__GeneralAntilles, URL?22:16
* GeneralAntilles thinks andre__ already had some of the drugs.22:16
GeneralAntilleshttps://wiki.maemo.org/Why_the_closed_packages#Specific_reasons_for_packages22:16
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andre__not really, just some Federweißer (hmm... does an english word exist for that?)22:17
andre__ i don't remember, I think it's an internal discussion. let me read my mail22:17
GeneralAntillesAh, that would explain it.22:17
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andre__oh nice, there's an english wikipedia article about Federweißer22:18
Jaffare22:18
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andre__well, let me take a look at my mail again22:18
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andre__GeneralAntilles, ah... yes, it's still under discussion. just started this two days ago :)22:19
andre__(damn, this felt longer ago. too much mail on only one day)22:20
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GeneralAntillesI'm somewhat worried about not being able to flash my N900 with an OS X machine as it stands.22:20
LinuxCodeevening guys22:21
LinuxCodeI flashed to the new diablo image for the N81022:21
LinuxCodehowever...im still unable to send emails suing certificates22:21
LinuxCodehas anyone of you sent emails using certificates ?22:21
andre__GeneralAntilles, bug 110022:21
andre__i know, that's why i asked them :)22:21
LinuxCodeGeneralAntilles, N900 ?22:21
LinuxCode;-O22:22
LinuxCodetypo or is that the 3g N8xx version22:22
woglindeLinuxCode yes next year22:22
LinuxCodeawesome22:22
woglindeand will have 3g22:22
andre__no that's N810 wimax edition22:22
LinuxCodeyah22:22
LinuxCodeI saw the press release...or maybe ari was mumbling on about it...cant recall22:22
LinuxCodestill... any of you used certs ?22:23
LinuxCodethere is a certificate import feature...and the docs claimed/still claim one can use them for email22:23
LinuxCodeid really like to know how though!22:23
woglindeLinuxCode sorry didnt use tinymail yet22:23
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LinuxCodetinymail the default mailing app ?22:24
woglindemaybe you ask pvanhoff himself22:24
woglindehm as of diablo I tought so22:24
LinuxCodehmm22:24
woglindemaybee I am wrong22:24
zakkmis there a faster browser than the default maemo one?22:24
zakkmjavacsript is so slow22:24
GeneralAntillesModest22:24
andre__tinymail is the mail backend, Modest is the mail frontend in Diablo22:24
GeneralAntillestinymail is just the. . .22:25
unixSnobLinuxCode: did you have trouble getting ssh installed?22:25
andre__faster! :-P22:25
unixSnobI just installed the latest diablo, and ssh did not get reinstalled22:25
LinuxCodeunixSnob, nope22:25
woglindeunixSnob22:25
LinuxCodeopenssh I guess ?22:25
unixSnobit errors when I run apt-get install ssh22:25
woglinde????22:25
GeneralAntilleszakkm, you're only working with 400MHz.22:25
woglindethere are 2 ssh packages22:25
LinuxCodei use openssh22:25
woglindeone with client and server in one22:25
LinuxCodewhich works perfectly well22:26
woglindeand one with client and server seperated22:26
LinuxCodewoglinde, indeed22:26
unixSnobi'll try openssh then22:26
woglindeits both openssh22:26
GeneralAntillesIt's listed right in the Application Manager.22:26
woglindeone is older version22:26
unixSnobdamn.. it couldn't find it.. i'll check the app manager22:27
andre__LinuxCode, so you can't receive/send mail? any error?22:27
LinuxCodeandre__, i can mate22:27
LinuxCodeI want to use the certificates22:27
LinuxCodeto send signed email22:27
andre__ah22:27
LinuxCodewhich should work!22:27
andre__so we talk about s/mime, pkcs7?22:27
GeneralAntillesunixSnob, Extras has to be enabled.22:27
LinuxCodeas far as the docs were concerned22:27
LinuxCodeyes andre__22:27
LinuxCodeI imported the cert22:28
LinuxCodeaccount name is the same as subject field in the cert22:28
LinuxCodemy understanding is it should give me an option22:28
zakkmDoes the N800 flip .. or is it just the N810 ?22:28
LinuxCodebut it doesnt....and there is no option i see22:28
GeneralAntilles"flip"?22:28
zakkmlandscape vs portrait..22:29
GeneralAntilles~rotation22:29
andre__LinuxCode, yupp, normally you should get a certificate notification22:29
zakkmyes that, sorry.22:29
GeneralAntilleshttp://outpo.st/rotate22:29
LinuxCodeandre__, can you elaborate a bit ?22:29
unixSnobGeneralAntilles: i don't recall doing that before.. how are extras enabled?22:29
LinuxCodewhen does this notification appear ?22:29
GeneralAntilles~extras22:29
infobotsomebody said extras was http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras22:29
LinuxCodeI tell you what I did step by step...22:29
unixSnobty22:30
LinuxCodetransferred my certificates to the internal memory22:30
LinuxCodeimported from the certificate util in the settings manager22:30
LinuxCodeso when does this "notification appear" ?22:30
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LinuxCodeor do I need to send myself a signed email and tiny email picks the cert up ?22:31
andre__normally after adding the mail account and send/receiving for the first time22:31
GeneralAntilless/tiny/Modest/22:31
LinuxCodemeh22:31
andre__hmm. i'd need a test server for this...22:31
LinuxCodeGeneralAntilles, ?22:31
GeneralAntillestinymail is just the backend22:32
GeneralAntillesthe client is called Modest22:32
LinuxCodeahh ok22:32
LinuxCodehehe22:32
GeneralAntillesIt'd be like talking about Firefox in terms of "Gecko". ;)22:32
LinuxCodeandre__, do you know how it picks up which account it belongs to ?22:32
LinuxCodeGeneralAntilles, yeh22:32
LinuxCodehehe22:32
zakkmGeneralAntillies : that link doesnt work22:32
andre__LinuxCode, nope22:32
GeneralAntilleszakkm, reload22:32
LinuxCodeandre__, do you use certs ?22:32
GeneralAntillesThe Apache threads segfault sometimes22:33
GeneralAntillesI'm starting to give up on ever seeing a working wiki.22:33
LinuxCodeif so...is your account name the same as the subject field ?22:33
andre__LinuxCode, unfortunately not22:33
zakkmdoes metacrawler bug exist in Diablo ?22:33
LinuxCodehmm k22:33
andre__LinuxCode, i wonder whether debugging the connection to the server would help... dunno22:33
andre__see https://wiki.maemo.org/Bugs:Stock_answers#Debugging_the_connection_to_the_mail_server22:33
GeneralAntilleszakkm, there are many different metalayer-crawler bugs.22:33
LinuxCodeno no mate22:33
LinuxCodeim not talking tls issues here22:33
GeneralAntillesSo, no, that's not a question that can be answered.22:33
LinuxCodeim talking signed email issues22:33
LinuxCodetls is fine22:34
LinuxCodeit asked me if I wnated to accept my self-signed cert22:34
LinuxCodewhich is fine22:34
halleymaemo.org seems to be having probs with several pages22:34
zakkmthe one that made my 770 .. take 100% cpu ?22:34
LinuxCodebut my understanding was that modest can send email thats been digitally signed22:34
GeneralAntilleszakkm, probably22:35
GeneralAntillesMost of the bugs that actually affected more than 3 people have been fixed.22:35
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LinuxCodeI tell people...if its not signed by me...chuck the message away, usually22:35
LinuxCodeim tempted to try claws22:35
LinuxCodebut it would be nice to use standard contacts22:35
GeneralAntilleshalley, supposedly there's a hardware upgrade that has and/or will take place22:36
GeneralAntillesI'm no longer clear on the details.22:36
LinuxCodenot that that would make much difference as I cant sync from evolution to the standard contacts22:36
LinuxCodei use gpesyncd which works fine22:37
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LinuxCodei will try claws22:40
LinuxCodesee how that works out22:41
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LinuxCodeim glad the iptables binary is finally in the repo though22:42
LinuxCodeand bash22:42
vincenzo88Bye everybody, good night :=)22:43
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* LinuxCode pokes lcuk 22:43
LinuxCodelcuk, hey mate ;-D22:43
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unixSnobi thought the passwords were supposed to be preserved through the upgrade.. but my password for 'user' no longer works22:44
GeneralAntillesWell duh22:46
LinuxCodei think claws supports it22:47
LinuxCodesec22:47
GeneralAntillesClaws will support most things22:48
GeneralAntillesIt just has the world's finger-unfriendliest UI.22:48
LinuxCodehehe22:48
Stskeepsslam a finger on it and boom, all you mail is gone, and your grandmother died?22:48
GeneralAntillesIf by "your" you mean "Stskeeps'", then yes. :P22:49
Stskeepshehe22:52
* Stskeeps kinda wonders what to use his reconstructed wiki page for when it's done.22:54
Stskeepsput out on -developers, link in Mainstream alignment?22:54
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GeneralAntillesBoth22:56
GeneralAntillesShow it to people.22:56
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GeneralAntillesIgor's becoming as bad a tease as Texrat23:02
Stskeepssometimes i'm frustrated by the closedness but i guess they gotta make money in surprising announcements too..23:03
Stskeeps:P23:03
GeneralAntillesThere's a lot of fun in the surprises23:05
LinuxCodegrrr23:05
* LinuxCode spanks claws-mail23:06
* GeneralAntilles is suffering from the long-term RDF exposure.23:06
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m-voGeneralAntilles, everybody, I have some text for a future "Maemo archive", how we might handle our packages, distributions, releases, etc.23:14
m-voI am not totally ready to post it to the mailing list, but some early feedback would be welcome.23:15
GeneralAntilleshttps://stage.maemo.org/svn/maemo/projects/haf/doc/mvo/system-model-2.txt ?23:15
m-voExactly!23:15
m-voI knew you guys will find it.23:15
GeneralAntillesHehe23:15
GeneralAntillesJaffa stumbled across it a week or two ago.23:15
StsN800m-vo, looks great23:15
GeneralAntillesYeah, it looks good to me, too.23:16
GeneralAntillesThough I haven't gone over it in real detail yet.23:16
m-voIt has changed a lot recently.23:16
m-voA sticky point might be that everything is compiled in "testing".23:17
m-voThat might lead to a lot of hair pulling when the dependencies turn out to be wrong.23:17
m-voAny thoughts on that?23:18
m-voSearch for "Compatability" in the text.23:18
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StsN800m-vo, https://wiki.maemo.org/wiki/Maemo_Reconstructed .. something i have worked a tad on after the jaiku discussion about deblet, had some small thoughts regarding your proposal i added to that23:21
StsN800(found it earlier so)23:22
GeneralAntilles-wiki/23:22
GeneralAntilleshttps://wiki.maemo.org/Maemo_Reconstructed23:23
StsN800yeah, sorry, on x11vnc :P23:23
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m-voStsN800, readin...23:25
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m-voStsN800, about the initfs.... could you live without one?23:30
Stslaptopas a tablet hacker who often breaks things, no :P23:31
Stslaptopand i've seen many user cases where it's directly helpful to have one23:31
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Stslaptopwhen SSU breaks horridly and they have important data and such23:31
m-voHmm, would booting with init=/bin/sh do it?23:31
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Stslaptopconsider scenario where jffs2 has hosed itself for whatever reason23:32
Stslaptopand init=/bin/sh isn't directly easy on tablets23:32
Stslaptopmaybe with g_serial but that's about it..23:32
Stslaptopbut all of this is ofcourse up for discussion23:33
m-voYeah, there should be a rescue mode of some kind, and the initfs might provide one, but mostly by accident.23:33
Stslaptopyou could consider initfs simply being a alternate root device activatable holding down a key23:34
Stslaptopthat'd do it for me atleast23:34
m-voLike booting from an external memory card?  There could be a rescue image that people have to write to a card, and then the device boots from it.23:35
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Stslaptopthere's been some talk of such too, but if there's a feature in-system that can always help, would definately be a more complete system, but this would require people to have memory card readers..23:36
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m-voYeah, builtin would be better.23:37
usicowwhats the right pixel size to make a background image for an n810?23:38
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GeneralAntilles800x40023:38
GeneralAntillesInterfaceLIFT has most of theirs in 800x48023:38
GeneralAntilless/400/480/23:38
usicowok cool23:39
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Stslaptopm-vo: added the idea about alternate root device to wiki. the wiki page is really an excersise in deconstructing maemo and reconstructing it based on developer input and see how a future maemo could look like that'd satisfy the wishes.23:42
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m-voI keep coming back to the idea that we should have a proper framebuffer console and a dirt simple in-kernel virtual keyboard.23:43
Stslaptophehe, yeah, that could be handy once in a while, but many people tend to have a usb keyboard23:44
GeneralAntillesOr an N81023:44
Stslaptop(i still haven't gotten around to using usb host on my n800.)23:44
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m-voOh, usb keyboards work out of the box?23:45
GeneralAntillesGotta get one of Jolouis's OTG adaptors.23:45
GeneralAntillesWith the proper hardware23:45
GeneralAntillesOr forcing it into host in software23:45
Stslaptopm-vo: i suspect so, people doing the 770 deblet port used it atleast and I don't mess around with kernel.23:46
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m-voStslaptop, want to hear my vision of a nice Maemo SDK? :-)23:50
Stslaptopm-vo: always23:50
Stslaptop"none at all"?23:50
m-voI don't understand your plans for Maemo R.23:51
m-vo(probably read too quickly)23:51
m-vo"SDK should be a build box with developer friendly tools to get things running. "23:51
m-voWhat's a build box?23:51
m-voAnyway.... If I would move to a deserted island to develop for Maemo, I would take with me:23:52
m-votwo chroot environments.23:52
m-vowith Maemo installed in both of them.23:53
m-voOne is x86, the other is armel, with user-mode qemu.23:53
RST38hDear Cthulhu, please make 'em see the light and STOP feeding us chrooted environments instead of a normal host-based SDK.23:53
m-voHeh.23:53
RST38h[you can use the iron poker toward this goal, mighty Cthulhu]23:54
GeneralAntillesI'd like to development on-device.23:54
m-voYou mean we should develop in Debian unstable and run the x86 binaries with qemu on the device?23:54
m-voHear me out, hear me out.23:55
m-voSo, I was saying.23:55
m-voThe basic idea is that you develop for Maemo in Maemo.23:56
m-voLike you develop for Debian in Debian.23:56
RST38hI would like to develop for Maemo on my desktop, possibly running Windows23:56
RST38hI do not want to develop for Maemo in fake Maemo.23:56
Stslaptopregarding Maemo R, it's still in polishing phase :). regarding "build box". think extras builder - it has access to all dev packages, cross-compiler, but doesn't try to be a subset of Maemo with full hildon desktop and all, and basically functions as a place you can build your stuff, a buildbox. If you want to test your app, it can be run inside the associated emulator which contains Maemo. I believe in develop in Maemo on Maemo as well23:56
m-voThus, you run Maemo in a chroot on your Debian host.  That should be quite painless, no?23:57
RST38hm-vo: Yes, until you have to use your source code that really resides on an NTFS partition mounted from your Debian23:57
RST38hm-vo: And then you are fucked.23:57
m-voRST38h, don23:58
RST38hSo, please, I would like a normal SDK, just like Nokia has for Symbian23:58
m-vo't do that, we are talking about the real world here.23:58
RST38hm-vo: This IS the real world, friend23:58
RST38hAnd welcome.23:58
m-vo:-)23:58
m-voWhatever.23:58
RST38hYea, that is the answer I hear from Nokia people every now and then23:59
ccookem-vo: you seem to believe that the real world consists of nothing you personally wouldn't do?23:59

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