IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2008-10-31

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lcuklardman, is "Nilch" a preexisting app or the codename?00:22
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lardmana person00:22
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lardmanhave changed it now00:24
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lcukahh cool00:26
lcukive added a general thing to the bottom00:26
lcukand filled out some of the benefits of mcalendar :)00:26
lcuklbt, wheres shopper on this list of PIM stuff00:27
lcukand do we have examples and pieces from other programs which can be included to help explain features00:28
lardmanwhat's shopper?00:28
lcuk(like shoppers todo listing)00:28
lcukshopper == shopping list00:28
lardmanhmm, not sure that's really PIM00:29
lardmanbut I guess it's closish00:29
lcukno, but it is one of the core elements00:29
lardmanif you want examples please stick them in, screenshots, etc.00:29
lcuki know you are currently listing the integrated PIM systems as a whole, but some programs never get that far00:29
lbtlcuk :)00:30
lardmanbut not too technical at this point, more of an overview00:30
lcukyeah im just thinking now00:30
lcukyeah i know00:30
lcukif we can find the UI interactions which work to do the kinds of things required in a pim all the better00:31
lcuklike khertan trying to make his fingerfriendly00:31
lcukthats important as already highlighted by the tiny gpe buttons00:31
lcukRST38h, the thing is, did it taste like bacon?00:31
lcukheh lbt ive never (that i know of) eaten rabbit00:33
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lcukand i wouldprobably bake it with a few strips ontop as garnish ;)00:33
lbtit's not bad - you're not missing much00:34
t_s_ohey GeneralAntilles, do you happen to own a t-shirt with the print "do i look like a people person?!" on it?00:34
lbtlcuk: and shopper goes near calendar - future planning :)00:34
RST38hlcuk: I reckon it tasted like wet fur00:34
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lbtRST38h: well, chicken would taste like wet feathers if you prepared it like that so...00:35
melmothlcuk: you _have_ to taste rabbit ! with mustard sausse.00:36
lbtanything with mustard tastes like anything else with mustard. Mustardy00:36
lcukwhat if its bacon mustard?00:36
lbtbacon and mustard?00:36
lbtNah, mustard beats bacon00:37
lbtunless you're talking french mustard00:37
lcukheh, its like scissors paper rock00:37
lbtwhich is wimpy00:37
lbt'cos it's french00:37
lcukmustard: the only thing in the universe that can kill bacon00:37
melmothwhat can be found in england as "french mustard" has nothing to do with french mustard.00:38
melmothactually, our mustard taste more like "english mustard"00:38
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melmothyou can find 'maille' mustard at saintsburry last time i checked. This is proper french mustard.00:38
melmothnow, find a proper rabbit !00:38
lbtThat's what I have :)00:38
lbt(I like it really - Maille+cream on steak !)00:39
RST38hamerican grey squirrel?00:39
lbtFluffy rat00:39
lardmanyes, larger, meatier, not illegal to eatier00:39
lbtOK, fluffy cute rat.00:39
lardmanHugh was eating squirrel tonight00:39
lbtwe have lots of squirrels here - are they really good to eat?00:40
lardmansounded ok, see if you can find a copy of this:
lardmanhmm, sounds different:
lbtI guess you're supposed to skin it; not eat it a-la-Heron ?00:42
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RST38hlbt: naah00:42
lardmanyeah, I think take the intensines out too00:42
RST38hAnd I would sugget against catching one by it tail: they DO manage to bite you00:42
RST38h(yes, a friend tried)00:43
lbtOh, when you said popcorn I figured you left them in and microwaved it...00:43
lardmanyeah, I was wondering too00:43
lardmanthe recipe this evening was for a stew-sort of thing though, looked pretty tasty00:43
RST38hof course you can't serve it whole00:44
RST38hbecause then everyone would see what it is, but stew is fine00:44
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lardmanlcuk: I did some tidying up of the PIM page00:46
lbtlardman: URL?00:46
lardmangoing to boot Linux and do some coding, bbiam00:48
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qwerty12_N800~wtf bbiam00:49
infobotGee...  I don't know what bbiam means...00:49
lbtbe back in a minute00:49
qwerty12_N800ah, ok, thanks00:49
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lbtadded some + for gpe-cal00:54
lardmancool, thanks :)00:54
lardmanit's with reference to Quim's post here:
lbtalso, FWIW, I got egroupware setup on a xen vm and acting as central calendar for my various linux desktops/laptops/nokia for me+ the missus00:56
lbtI just dl'ed the 1.6rc3 version to see about fixing a korganiser bug00:57
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lbtgpe has a real bug which kills egroupware though - it deletes entire calendars!!!00:57
lardmanI'm afraid I don;t know a lot about PIM stuff, just what I'd like00:57
infobotlbt meant: gpe-cal has a real bug which kills egroupware though - it deletes entire calendars!!!00:57
lbtme neither :)00:57
lardmanin fact I'm just shepherding the flock here to get them to produce some useful info00:57
lbtI read the iCal RFC today00:57
lardmanThis is a bug in its iCal output?00:58
lbtdunno - I'm getting the source for the various calendars - egw, korganiser and gpe-cal00:59
lbtoh, and iceowl00:59
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lbtthen I'll see what's what.00:59
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qwerty12_N800jott, hey, if you ever make it back to Earth :p, just wanted to let you know that with hildon-application-manager 2.1.20 + red pill, your rotation install file works flawlessly with the app man treating it as a ssu update and flashing the kernel and rebooting01:09
* lcuk read an email the other day where jott was mentioned, and not in past tense either01:14
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lcukwho wants a slice of home made pizza?01:16
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woglindelcuk me01:17
lcukk ill email it to you01:17
woglindethen its cold01:17
lcukcold pizza is the best01:17
woglindeand not tasty anymore01:17
lcukok ok - ill instant message it you01:18
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lcukit will still be hot01:18
lcukwhat you upto tonight then woglinde?01:18
lcukapart from sittin around waiting for pizza01:19
woglindestill assigment01:19
woglindesucking theroetical compuer science01:19
* lardman had far too much home-made pizza earlier tonight01:19
woglindehm I only need algorithm for fibuonacci numbers with fast matrix multiply01:20
woglindeso we can show it runs in O(logn)01:20
lcukcant you just make your computer ask google for the answer01:20
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* lcuk thinks 3 slices was too much - woglinde i think you really are havin some pizza01:21
woglindeI am afraid google cant scope with the search terms01:21
lcukno, it copes fine, its you that can't cope with the answers it gives :P01:22
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moontiger*sigh* the website is slow as molasses agin01:22
woglindehm seems 2nd google hit is okay01:23
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lcukits cos we are all hammering the wiki01:23
lbtadded slapd to PIM page01:24
woglindebarks golden ratio again01:24
lcukwoglinde, if i need something specific i look here first to get me the available options
qwerty12_N800allnameswereout also compiled the osmo organiser too01:24
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lcukexcellent lbt, thats the sort of thing i was talkin about - core elements :)01:26
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lcukall this talk of sync - ive got 2 browser windows up, and both have a copy of the same page viewed01:27
lcukwhy doesnt my browser have an option to ensure all instances of same page are refreshed at same time01:28
woglindelcuk there is no algo with fast multiply01:28
woglindeargs +matrix01:28
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lcukwhat do you mean by fast multiply - 16bit numbers, 32 bit? arbitrary precision? floats? ints?01:29
lcukand which language01:29
woglindefast matrix multipy01:29
woglindeif you want to get the power of something01:30
woglindeits faster to multiply matrizes instead of multiply eachtime01:31
woglindethe same value01:31
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lcukcant you just use the built in floating point pwr() function?01:32
lcukor whatever it is called01:32
lbtnight all01:32
woglindeits not technical01:32
lcukgnite lbt01:32
woglindeits theoretical01:32
lcukwhat sort of numbers are we talking about?01:32
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lcukmega didgit primes or reasonable ~64bit values01:33
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woglindeI said its not technical01:33
woglinderegister are irrelvant01:33
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lcukno but that indicates theoretical speed - you normally only need to breakdown calculations into matrixes for multiplication of arbitrary precision numbers, its worthless under a certain threshold01:34
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lcukie what would the matric for doing 3^3 be?01:35
lardmannight lbt01:35
woglindeyou can compute fibonacci numbers with01:35
woglinde2x2 matrix (1 1, 1 0)01:35
woglindehm I will give a fuck on that01:37
woglindewe have the other stuff right01:37
woglindeso one subquestion not to be solved should be okay01:37
lcukjust write something like "I have discovered a truly marvellous proof of this, which this margin is too narrow to contain."01:38
woglindenope if they find out I took an answer from google, the whole assigment is marked as failed01:40
derfBut taking it from IRC is okay?01:40
lardmanis there not a sqlite3_column_float() fn?01:40
derfIt's not actually a hard problem.01:40
woglindederf hehe01:40
derfWhat's the direct formula for the nth Fibonacci number?01:40
lcukderf, irc is discussion01:40
woglindebut we are handling the tex file with git01:45
woglindeso okay01:45
woglindeI will go to bed01:45
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lardmanhow are dates and times stored?01:48
lardmandate could be days since some date, so an unsigned integer01:48
lardmantime could be seconds in the day, so same, but are the two ever combined?01:49
lardmanin a floating point number for example?01:49
woglindelardman hm on unix its always seconds01:49
lcuklardman, thats how im used to seeing datetimes01:49
woglindeafter 197001:49
lardmanwoglinde: ah, ok01:49
lardmanlcuk: same here from the old days01:50
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lcuk"The way DateTimes are stored and retrieved from Sqlite databases depends on a lot, unfortunately, because Sqlite doesn't have a way of storing datetimes natively. Further, there are two versions of Sqlite (2 and 3) which are treated differently when it comes to DateTimes. The recommended way of using DateTimes with Sqlite is to encode/decode them yourself to/from some particular integer string format that you decide, and not putting01:51
lcuk them into a DATE or DATETIME column.01:51
lardmanright, I was going to use a uint01:52
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lcukgonna need it myself soon anyway01:52
lcukim bringing the db stuff back form the dead - ive had enough of files i tihnk01:53
lcuklardman, what version of sqlite is installed?01:54
lcuk and
lardmanno idea, yet :)01:55
lardmanthink I'll stick with Linux-style dates anyway01:55
lardmanlcuk: I write as much as possible, then test01:56
lcukheh i prefer to see what im doin with little test blocks then make use of known good code ;)01:56
lardmannah, that's what printf is for!01:56
lcukthank the segfault lord01:57
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lcuklardman, do you use firefox?02:00
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EgSI always used: and
EgSno idea, yet :)02:06
EgSthink I'll stick with Linux-style dates anyway02:06
lcuklardman, yeah should make it a bit easier to design with02:06
EgSlcuk: I write as much as possible, then test02:06
EgSheh i prefer to see what im doin with little test blocks then make use of known good code ;)02:06
EgSnah, that's what printf is for!02:06
EgSthank the segfault lord02:06
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EgSaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaargh sorry02:06
lardmanhmmmmm :)02:06
EgS <-- that I wanted to post :(02:06
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lcukEgS :D you nearly got yourself booted02:07
lcukthanks for link though lol02:08
lcuki like the firefox one actually, mozilla have been pushing for real development within their framework - thats the first time ive seen it02:08
lardmanare sqlite dbs platform agnostic?02:08
lcukhopefully, the code is02:09
EgSlcuk: jeah I really need to put in some paste protection into quassel... -.-02:09
lardmanyeah, but the data itself?02:09
lcukill see if i can find out - would be good if it is02:09
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lcukmakes sync and backup and sharing easier02:09
lcuk"e with multiple tables, indices, triggers, and views, is contained in a single disk file. The database file format is cross-platform - you can freely copy a database between 32-bit and 64-bit systems or between big-endian and little-endian architectures."02:13
lardmancool, thanks lcuk02:13
lcukthats VERY cool actually :)02:14
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lcuksqlite == access for a more refined society ;)02:15
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infobotit has been said that flasher is
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lcukis anyone familiar with the deep internals of gtk+03:33
lcukim tempted to see how much work it would take to render gtk applications on the Xv plane03:33
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ryoohkianyone have skype working yet on the wimax n810?04:24
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r2d2rogersStskeeps: you around?04:28
Luriaanyone using the wimax n810 in nyc?04:29
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bef0rdpandora got 256 mb of ram04:45
Luriawhen did that happen04:46
Luria(just saw the post on the forums)04:46
Luriaiow, ff will work04:46
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closetHas anyone managed to get UPNP music sharing working over OpenVPN from a windows machine to a tablet? I may just be too tired, but I can see why it doesn't work... :\05:09
infobotcloset meant: Has anyone managed to get UPNP music sharing working over OpenVPN from a windows machine to a tablet? I may just be too tired, but I can't see why it doesn't work... :\05:09
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`0660closet, the problem is with your multicasting05:17
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`0660at least in linux multicast addresses are routed to eth0 by default05:21
`0660closet, question 6 might have the answer for you:
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closetthanks `0606, I'll check that out :)05:37
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closetthat did the trick! thanks so much! for the log, I just had to do "route add -net netmask dev tap0", where tap0 is the interface to my vpn. now I can enjoy all my music around campus :)05:55
Luriadamn didnt know that05:56
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Luriai rarely use multicast, but ill add that to my server's conf route pushing05:57
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Luriacloset, why dont you use openvpn push?06:02
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closetjust didn't know you could do it that way; simpler than doing it by hand though, so I'll have to try it06:04
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Luriacloset, you can even force clients to use the vpn for all ip traffic06:37
Luriano more proxy needed06:37
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* Stskeeps clings to his coffee machine08:19
* johnx is re-heating coffee right now :)08:23
RST38hehlo johnx08:23
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RST38hjohnx: Seen a post about Entertainer on the Planet?08:39
RST38hAny idea where this app came from? I did not hear about it before08:39
johnxhaven't looked at my rss feeds yet08:39
GeneralAntillesJamieBennett has been working on it for the past month or so.08:41
johnxmore than that it seems08:41
johnxso GeneralAntilles, I revise my prediction about the n900 only having 128MB of RAM in light of some recent events :)08:42
GeneralAntilles8 months is a long time08:43
* Stskeeps listens to the Maemo & Mamona talk08:43
Stskeepspicoprojector, kthx too08:43
GeneralAntillesI really hope they do away with the itsy-bitsy built-in NAND.08:43
johnxmy new prediction goes something like: 256MB RAM / 512MB NAND08:44
Stskeeps512m nand would really make some interesting things possible08:44
johnxthat would put it in line with another OMAP3 based device yet-to-be-released08:44
GeneralAntillesBe nice if they could fit some sort of digital video connector on it without upping size too much.08:44
johnxas in firewire? or ... ?08:44
Pavlov2gb would be nice08:45
GeneralAntillesHDMI or somesuch08:45
GeneralAntillesThey should just totally do away with the unmanaged NAND08:45
Pavlovwith a quad core cortex a908:45
GeneralAntilles8-32GB eMMC08:45
Stskeepsa connector like on the beagle could be a possibility08:45
johnxGeneralAntilles, that's a bad idea08:45
Stskeeps(the dvi/hdmi)08:45
johnxalso, I sincerely doubt we'll see any omap3 device with a built in lcd and digital video out08:46
GeneralAntillesjohnx, why is that a bad idea?08:46
johnxGeneralAntilles, integrating the wear leveling with the fs means you don't have to be completely stupid about how you handle things08:46
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johnxfs says: write 1KB of date -> card erases 64KB and writes 64KB08:47
GeneralAntillesIt also currently limits you to about 512MB.08:47
GeneralAntillesEven that is likely to be a bit slow with jffs208:48
johnxthere are other filesystems besides jffs208:48
GeneralAntillesNot many at shipping quality.08:48
johnxthere are lots of interesting things just arriving right now, and 8 months is a long time for them to stabilize08:48
johnxit's not like they can't switch filesystems opportunistically if a good one shows up08:49
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Stskeepsjohnx: nokia should embrace pervasive computing and make a market for inexpensive networked devices, such as .. ok, you need a dvi connector, make something that communicates over wifi and shows/streams your display to it :P09:07
johnxthey could call it an "X server"!09:07
Stskeepsbut inexpensive09:07
Stskeepslike, 10$ ish09:07
Stskeepsor something09:08
Stskeepsor the screen should be networked09:08
johnxlike an x terminal from the 80's?09:08
johnxexcept with some proprietary nokia protocol?09:08
Stskeepsanyway, im off to work :P09:08
johnxand I'll figure out why matchbox-panel-2 seqfaults ... grrrr09:08
GeneralAntillesHow feasible would video out be over USB on OMAP3 hardware, I wonder. . . .09:09
johnxmy initial thought is *not very* based on how bad it's supposed to be on incredibly fast modern desktops09:10
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johnxit would be entirely possible for the n900 to have s-video though without much cost/effort IIUC09:11
GeneralAntillescomposite would probably make more sense09:11
GeneralAntillesas they can slap that on the 3.5mm jack09:11
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johnxsuppose so09:12
johnxI guess I should have said "some kind of analog output"09:12
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vincenzo88I have a problem with my scratchbox when i try to compile a qt4 project (i have installed the libs). I have this error message : "mmap: Permission denied". Someone have a solution ?10:40
JaffaMorning, all10:45
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Yes, looks nice.10:51
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: nice11:09
GeneralAntillesMaybe add a button to the toolbar for adding a rating or comment.11:10
johnxvery nice GeneralAntilles11:12
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I think all extra features should go on a separate product page.11:24
GeneralAntilles"extra features"?11:24
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: So you have a details page.11:24
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X-FadeWhere you can see comments, rating, number for downloads, screenshot.11:25
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GeneralAntillesSo, now we have a list of packages with an info button that brings up a dialog11:25
X-Fadeyeah, or just clicking on it.11:25
X-FadeNo dialog btw.11:26
X-FadeJust a new view?11:26
X-FadeDialogs should be banned on the device.11:26
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GeneralAntillesI'm proposing that we have a list of packages with an info button (or something else) that brings up a new view11:27
GeneralAntillesI wonder if we should put some tabs at the top.11:27
X-FadeIsn't that what the breadcrumb is for?11:27
GeneralAntillesIn the info view11:27
GeneralAntillesI still want to see what repository it came from, dependencies, maintainer (apt-cache stuff), etc.11:28
GeneralAntillesAs well as the screenshots, description, comments11:28
X-FadeAh yeah, well that can be tabbed.11:28
sp3000or scroll11:28
X-FadeMain features on first tab. hacker features on other tabs.11:28
sp3000scrolling sucks for ui-ish things, but that sounds content-ish11:29
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, right.11:29
X-FadeI think the current dialog has a good idea for that.11:29
X-FadeAlthough the summary should be more end-user friendly.11:29
GeneralAntillesWe'll need to push package maintainers for better descriptions.11:30
X-FadeOr fetch from
X-FadeIn that same meta-data xml?11:30
GeneralAntillesWell, that's still mostly the maintainers11:30
X-FadeSure, but because /downloads/ is more like a wiki. Others can do that too.11:31
GeneralAntillesWe'll see, maybe.11:31
X-Fadeif size(package-maintainer-description > maemo-org-desc) :)11:32
GeneralAntillesSome maintainers may object to having a random description used.11:32
X-FadeDon't try to find problems before they are there..11:33
GeneralAntillesGotta think ahead11:34
X-FadeYou will always have a few people that will object.11:34
X-FadeThink 80-20 :)11:34
GeneralAntillesClient's in retard mode11:34
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GeneralAntillesMy cloak's expired already?11:36
GeneralAntillesCrazy. . . .11:36
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StsN800 <- damn, and i thought i had seen bad things11:38
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yacoobStsN800, you mean the actual situation, or the "dramatic" tone of the entry?11:42
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StsN800well, dramatic.. ive never been much for community wars or the whole trademark crap11:44
* GeneralAntilles declares community war on Stskeeps.11:46
StsN800GeneralAntilles, i just stop coding and caring and move on usually :P11:48
StsN800cos then its not the product but the meta stuff anymore11:49
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StsN800(really dont care much for politics, just architecture and system developer friendliness11:52
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lardmanJaffa: ping12:25
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lardmandneary: ping12:31
X-Fadelardman: no route to host? :D12:31
dnearylardman: pong12:31
lardmanhow does one create a account?12:32
lardmanlast line of that post12:32
X-FadeWhich I hope is you? :)12:32
X-Fadeargh ;)12:32
GeneralAntillesThe "use your garage account" line disappeared from the login page.12:32
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X-FadeHmm maybe that is because of the http change.12:33
dnearylardman: Typically, it's clicking on "Create account" on any page in maemo.org12:35
dnearyFor the wiki, you just need to log in with your account name & password12:36
lardmanrighty ho12:36
dnearyI guess we should link to the account creation page12:36
GeneralAntillesIt had, previously.12:36
X-FadeI don't think anybody changed the wiki?12:36
X-FadeHaven't seen it at least?12:36
GeneralAntillesBut the link that (ferenc?) put up there disappeared.12:36
vincenzo88I have a problem when i try to compiling a Qt4 project with some files (one file works). When i do qmake commande i have this message : "qemu: uncaught target signal 11 (Segmentation fault) - exiting". Someone have a solution ?12:37
X-Fadevincenzo88: This is because of a qemu bug.12:37
lardmandneary: thanks, have replied12:37
vincenzo88Have you a solution to resolve this bug ?12:37
X-Fadevincenzo88: No, there is some work going on for that I believe.12:38
X-FadeMek: Do you know if the qemu thing has been fixed?12:38
vincenzo88X-fake: ok thanks12:39
MekX-Fade: no idea, didn't have much time recently do do anything maemo related12:39
X-Fadevincenzo88: a newer qemu from cvs might be a solution.12:40
X-Fadevincenzo88: But I'm not in the loop for that, so I don't know.12:40
Mekif you're just using qmake you shold be able to use the qemu-cvs-m version that comes with scratchbox12:40
dnearylardman: It's already there in the login form: "Don't have a login? Please create an account at"12:41
lardmanah ok12:42
Jaffalardman: pong12:44
lardmanhey Jaffa12:44
lardmandid you see my response re agps?12:44
JaffaI did.12:47
lardmanoff the top of my head, a pixel is ~50x50miles, so you'd need some accurate tapping12:48
lardmanI seem to remember that the ephemerides are valid over a range of a few hundred miles or so12:49
lardmanbut I agree, more info from the app, or ideally the source code itself12:49
X-FadeAnd I wonder how fast it would deteriorate if you move a few hunderd more.12:49
lardmannot very quickly, as you'll still have sats in view,12:50
lcukvisible from orbit mmmmmm12:50
X-Fadeyeah, so basically your part of the globe would be ok ;)12:50
lcukmmmmorning o/12:50
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lardmanX-Fade: well that's my understanding, but who really knows!? :)12:51
X-Fadelardman: Well that is something one can test.12:51
lcukmy bet is that the nice interface and time it takes to click an area just distracts the user12:51
lcukgiving gps time to kick in ;)12:51
X-FadeJust click somewhere in the center of europe and see if that fix takes longer than nearer to your home.12:51
lardmanah, just checked my email. Nice to see some info from Marko12:52
melmothagps never made any difference with the gps locking time here (with or without internet connexion)12:52
lcukx-fade, but its so random already, it took me halfway to work before i got a lock this morning,   yesterday it was  on before i got down the street12:52
lardmanX-Fade: atm it takes forever for me, there's another underlying issue, perhaps related to nvd_data corruption12:52
X-Fadelcuk: Cloudy day doesn't help either.12:54
X-Fadelardman: Try wiping the file?12:54
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lardmanI know, too many variables though12:54
* lcuk never though of normal clouds gettin in the way12:55
X-Fadelardman: Well, empty is always a good point to start with ;)12:55
lcukdoes it work better in the daytime as well - afterall then we can see the sky12:55
lardmanshould also work better if you face slightly south12:55
X-Fadelcuk: I think clouds can..12:55
lardmanyeah, they degrade the signal strength12:56
lcukdo you recommend wearing sandles or full shoes to get a lock?12:56
lardmanmetal soles12:56
lcuksteel toecaps?12:56
lcukor do they interfere?12:56
lardmanthe south thing is true though :) look at the distribution of satellite orbits, etc12:56
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* lcuk_web has been kicked off computer so missus can look at pumpkins \@/12:59
lardmancnc machining faces in them?13:00
lcuk_webheh no, but i guess you saw that one13:00
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lcuk_webthey have a production line going on - kids are gutting them, tracy is gonna davinci em13:01
lardmanapparently it's not the water vapour, but ice & other particles/aerosols which interfere (or solid water)13:01
lcuk_webhigh altitude clouds13:01
lardmanor raining ones13:01
lcuk_webthunder cells13:01
lardmanyeah, noise producers13:02
lcuk_webi suppose solid water will also have an impact (I wonder if we could find a word to describe solid water?)13:02
lardmanhmm, I wonder13:03
lcuk_webare u havin a lazy weekend this time, or are you all rushed again?13:03
lardmanwhy not go for something with absolutely no shared letters, as the two look different, and fewer letters too as the solid type is less dense?13:03
lardmanwhat about c-i-e?13:04
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lardmanlazy, hope to do more coding on barcode13:04
lcuk_webcool, im hopin to get a bit of a ui designer in place13:05
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lcuk_webthough im out drinking and  christening and other stuff - oh and goin seein bond13:05
* lcuk_web just realised hes actually got a full weekend13:06
lardmanyes, I want to see bond13:06
lcuk_webtakin luke, it looks excellent13:06
GeneralAntillesOut already?13:07
lcuk_webtracy spent half of this morning on ticketmaster, take that are comin back13:07
lardmanfor once13:07
lcuk_webGeneralAntilles: has premier yesterday or so13:07
lardmanit being British and all13:07
t_s_obah, why do i bother reading all the negative press about the aigo and the linux variant found on it...13:09
lcuk_webby the way, if i were to make a kinetic calendat, how many years either side of now should i go?13:09
lcuk_webcalendar even13:09
lardmancool, must be the fastest resolved bug ever :)13:10
lcuk_webwow lardman :) result13:12
lardmanit was probably already out there actually13:12
lardmannice to see people takling though13:12
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lcuk_webyeah, as quim has said, ask reasonable questions and they will try to give reasonable answers13:15
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yergaX-Fade, help! ;)13:58
X-Fadeyerga: I can't hide from you, can I ;)14:01
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yergano ;)14:02
yergafor some reason I can't upload screenshots to sharepy downloads page14:02
X-Fadeyerga: Are there any error messages?14:03
yergaI mean it upload the files14:03
yergabut when I hit the save button14:03
yergait disappear14:03
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X-Fadeyerga: I'll check. We change the storage of these blobs last week, so there might be a problem with that.14:09
X-FadeAlthough I see your screenshots in the static cache.14:09
yergaok, thanks.14:09
X-Fadesharepylist etc?14:09
yergaI tried changing the name14:09
yergathe format, etc.14:09
yergawith other browsers14:09
yergaand same result14:10
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GeneralAntillesWhat other ideas am I missing for Application manager features from the list for Fremantle?
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JaffaHmm. My karma has lost 200 points in the last couple of days, and now dates from - as far as I can tell - 16th May 2008.14:33
JaffaBut it's using some fscked up USian date format, so who knows...14:33
RST38hit is deflating!14:34
JaffaX-Fade: have new karma calculations been deployed?14:34
X-FadeJaffa: It is recalculating, but it is doing things in small batches.14:34
X-FadeAnd there might have been higher counts in the past because of duplicate runs.14:35
JaffaX-Fade: ah, perhaps it's worth some kind of marker on the page if you access it whilst it's updating?14:35
X-FadeJaffa: Recalc will finish in 2 days orso. Let's see if it is ok then.14:35
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, that's no US date format.14:38
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Looks great, if we can get all that then I'm pretty pleased :)14:38
JaffaGeneralAntilles: MM/dd/yy is US, isn't it14:39
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Maybe add: _no_ _dialogs_ _ever_ ;)14:39
RST38hit is14:39
GeneralAntillesI know my karma has been updated more recently than 05/09/0814:39
GeneralAntillesSo clearly that September 5th, 2008.14:39
X-Fade%x %X .14:40
X-FadeThat is the format.14:40
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JaffaIt should be ISO8601 and use yyyy-MM-dd to prevent confusion (as Bugzilla is)14:42
RST38hhow is it better other than for sorting purposes?14:43
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JaffaFrom what dneary was saying before about the karma calc, I think it's fundmamentally broken in terms of implementation14:43
X-FadeI'll change the date format. Just a moment ;)14:43
JaffaRST38h: It's most-significant -> least significant, there's no confusion between dd/MM/yy and MM/dd/yy14:44
JaffaIf it says 02/03/04 that could be at least three commonly used formats. So 2004-03-02 is clear as, in that format, there's never a yyyy-dd-MM format.14:45
GeneralAntillesDoes somebody want to ponder out the specifics of the subcategories implementation and add it to the Fremantle goals?14:45
* Jaffa had his ponder. I can expand on it, or people can do their own version.14:48
X-FadeJaffa: Better now?14:48
herwoodhas anyone ever implemented a program which would use wlan ad-hoc?14:48
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GeneralAntillesNo wonder the damn wiki wouldn't load14:53
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GeneralAntillesthe goddamn cable's out again.14:53
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lcukherwood, my entire network is adhoc14:53
JaffaX-Fade: much better, ta.14:56
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herwoodlcuk: I don't know much about wlan stuff, but I was just wondering that is it hard to configure two tablets into ad-hoc?14:57
herwoodI mean in the program14:57
herwoodis there some kind of API etc to control the wlan?14:57
lcukno, its adhoc14:58
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lcukthe network is created when the first adapter shouts its name from the roof tops (with passwords etc)14:58
lcukothers can join that network or not - its all under the same wifi connection stuff14:59
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lcuk"free wireless internet" is a popular adhoc network14:59
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lcukive got 2 tablets, a desktop and a laptop15:00
herwoodallright, that sounds good15:00
lcukno router - if i enable wifi on any device its there15:00
lcukif another device comes into the group great!15:00
* GeneralAntilles slaps lcuk with $50 for a router.15:01
lcukso i can just connect my 2 n810s when they are nearby - wherever that may be (made great use of it in berlin)15:01
lcukbut your router wont do that ^15:01
GeneralAntillesHaving a router doesn't prevent you from using adhoc when you're not around it.15:01
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GeneralAntillesIt also means you wont get shit battery life when you use wifi.15:02
lcukwhiteboarding by quantum entanglment is good15:02
herwoodso who controls the devices in adhoc-mode?15:02
herwoodis there some sort of "host"15:02
lcukthe devices15:02
GeneralAntillesherwood, look up the definition of adhoc. ;)15:02
lcukad-hoc :: winging it :: no script15:02
herwoodso, if you try to join in the adhoc, you'll have to have same passwords etc15:02
GeneralAntillesIt's like a p2p network15:02
herwoodok, i'll take a look at the specs, if I find them15:03
herwoodthanks guys15:03
lcukand doubly make sure your passwords are right, cos you wont get errors about them15:03
lcukit just wont work15:03
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dnearyJaffa: What was I saying about the karma calculation?15:23
dnearyMy understanding is in
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Jaffadneary: That everything was recalculated every time, and that there was no "updating" of existing records15:26
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dnearyJaffa: Yeah, that's my understanding15:48
Stskeepshm, how much stuff is on a typical os2008/diablo image when it's uncompressed, like, amounts of actual uncompressed files?15:49
Stskeepsjust wondering how much they're managed to squeeze through15:49
Stskeeps(.. guess i can look for myself :P)15:49
r2d2rogersgood morning15:49
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Stskeepsmorning, - i'm taking bus home and taking dishes at home so i'll be here in an hour or so15:50
Stskeepsthen i'll prod you :P15:50
r2d2rogersStskeeps: I'm able to boot to the console mode if I hold down the home key now15:50
r2d2rogerssounds good15:50
r2d2rogershave a safe trip15:51
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Stskeepsr2d2rogers: sounds good :) usbnet too?15:51
r2d2rogersyeah, when I learn how to use it ;)15:52
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: that's a good question..15:55
Stskeepsit seems to me many nokia people are on launchpad already15:55
Stskeepshence part of my fremantle ubuntu conspiracy15:55
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GeneralAntillesoh god16:07
* GeneralAntilles notices tz1 in the Application manager history16:07
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yergaGeneralAntilles, I did a new patch for the repository thing:
yergaNow it differentiate between extras and extras-devel16:14
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GeneralAntillesyerga, I wonder about making it "pretty" to reduce the user-scare-factor16:20
GeneralAntillesA Maemo-Display-Name sort of deal except for repository.16:20
GeneralAntillesBe nice to tag stuff as "Development quality" if it's in Extras-devel somewhere here:
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Do we have a Proposal: namespace?16:25
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t_s_ohmm, thats a interesting mockup indeed16:31
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t_s_ohey yerga, do you think it would be possible to automate the postings from wordpy so that if it detects a hotspot it will autoconnect and upload pending blog entries?16:35
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, just toss 'em in Task:16:35
t_s_ohmm, never mind, i see its in the roadmap for 0.816:36
yergat_s_o, possible it would be16:36
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yergathe roadmap is a bit outdated16:36
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t_s_oheh, maybe so16:36
yergathe idea is good16:36
yergabut wordpy would be open to detect it16:36
yergashould be open16:37
yergaor some applet or something similar16:37
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GeneralAntillesSeems like alarmd should support something like that.16:39
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* Stskeeps collapses on his couch16:42
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Stskeepswhat's the great deal about ogg/theora support again? :P if there's hooks to introduce other codecs, then good16:44
Stskeeps(yes, i like ogg and yes it's nice to listen to, but it's a codec, not a religion :P)16:44
GeneralAntillesIt's a religion.16:45
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kulveStskeeps: you can add whatever codecs you like but the built-in apps seems to have hardcoded list of codecs they support16:45
GeneralAntillesEvery day Nokia doesn't ship OGG, it's like they've killed a kitten.16:45
GeneralAntillesI wouldn't be surprised if an OGG zealot out there actually was killing kittens until Nokia ships OGG. :P16:46
Stskeepskulve: true - then itch and write a better media player? the one in maemo isn't exactly good :P16:46
Stskeepsi like the radio channel stuff and so on but rest.. ick16:47
t_s_oogg to some is like the GPL to gnu ;)16:47
* Stskeeps hugs his /whois16:47
Stskeepshad "death to all gnubies" as my gecos on irc since my first time encountering debian-legal and minions :)16:48
melmothStskeeps: the great deal is.. as most distro do not ship mp3 encoder for legal reason, most of my music is in encoded in ogg.16:48
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Stskeepsmelmoth: i used to have most of my music in ogg as well but not anymore16:48
Stskeeps.. because i stopped buying cds, but that's another thing16:48
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kulveStskeeps: We have already written kilikali ;)16:49
Stskeepskulve: worst part is that it kinda looks like it's more user friendly than the media player.. :P16:50
derfGeneralAntilles: The Xiph.Org Foundation officially protests the killing of any kittens.16:50
kulveStskeeps: do you mean the old UI or the new one..?16:50
Stskeepsoh, old one, just saw the new one16:50
derfGeneralAntilles: Also, Ogg is not an acronym. Since you like to be so pedantic.16:51
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glassi'm for kitten euthanasia16:52
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: good form on wiki is drafting in own user namespace and then moving to main namespace?16:52
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, eh, doesn't much matter.16:53
GeneralAntillesI started it in my userspace because I wasn't after a "stone soup" sort of deal16:53
GeneralAntillesI had my own vision that I didn't want a bunch of crazies intruding on. ;)16:53
* Stskeeps is planning on starting the Maemo "Reconstructed" page and would love a bunch of crazies16:53
GeneralAntillesIf you're after input and collaboration, then don't put it in your userspace.16:53
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Stskeeps(is Maemo "Reconstructed" against trademark policy? :P)16:54
GeneralAntillesMore or less16:56
GeneralAntillesI wouldn't worry too much about it for a wiki task, though.16:56
* r2d2rogers figured out the usbnetworking for deblet now16:56
Stskeepsalright, sounds good16:56
Stskeepsyou telnet'ed in then?16:56
Stskeeps(or ssh)16:56
r2d2rogerstelnet fist16:57
r2d2rogerscan switch16:57
Stskeepsnah, it's fine16:57
Stskeepsdo you have connectivity from 770 to the net through usbnet?16:57
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r2d2rogersnot yet16:57
r2d2rogersis there any handy guide I can follow so you don't have to baby step me through that?16:58
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: We might want to look at the proposed text.16:58
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: what OS do you link up with?16:59
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: btw Help:Editing not existing on wiki is kinda annoying16:59
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: sec16:59
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, yeah, it died a few weeks after the wiki was created. :\16:59
GeneralAntillesIt should probably just link to
GeneralAntilles~wiki-cheat is
infobotGeneralAntilles: okay17:00
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: scroll down to "auto usb0"17:00
r2d2rogersgot it17:01
woglindeauto in ifup/down is only useful at start time17:01
woglindefor automatiglicy connection you need ifplugd17:01
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, we should probably run through the whole policy for any issues if we're going to be pushing an update anyway.17:02
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Or do it in small steps, so one thing doesn't block the other.17:02
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r2d2rogersif I ifup manually is should work though right?17:03
GeneralAntillesCall the deadline next Friday to hopefully have the new policy out the door and a PSA for packagers?17:04
woglinder2d2rogers yes17:04
woglindeand when the wlan driver is really stable enough we can use guessnet and wpa supplicant with all the goodies17:05
Stskeepsyou're talking about stlc45xx or? :P17:06
r2d2rogers<G> will be nice17:06
r2d2rogersk I can telnet in but still can't get out.17:06
r2d2rogersdo I need a default gateway on the tablet side?17:06
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: route default add gw probably17:06
Stskeepsroute add default gw
Stskeepsand then nameserver in /etc/resolv.conf17:06
r2d2rogerstada <G>17:07
r2d2rogersname server next17:07
woglinder2d2rogers depends17:07
woglindeif you do not want the internet17:07
woglindethen you do not need a default route17:07
r2d2rogersat this point I do <G>17:08
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woglindehm rememinds me to lookup17:08
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woglindeif the nokias have the debian resolvconf package17:08
woglindethen you can add the dns in interfaces too17:08
Stskeepswoglinde: he's trying out deblet on 770 :P17:09
Stskeepsit is a debian :P17:10
Stskeeps.. deriative, before someone smacks me17:10
r2d2rogerscan't open file for writing when trying to write /etc/resolv.conf17:12
r2d2rogers/dev/mmcblk0p1 on /mnt/initfs type jffs2 (ro)17:13
r2d2rogers^^^ that is the only thing mounted ro17:13
woglinder2d2rogers hm17:13
r2d2rogersrootfs on / type rootfs (rw,noatime,nodiratime,errors=remount-ro)17:13
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: arh. yeah17:14
r2d2rogerswhere can I check to see if there were errors?17:14
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Stskeepsr2d2rogers: do you have fanoush's sdhc kernel?17:14
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Stskeepscheck dmesg for me and see if there's anything there17:14
r2d2rogers48mhz one,   bad?17:14
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r2d2rogersStskeeps: not seeing anything standing out17:16
r2d2rogerscan pastebin it if you like17:17
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r2d2rogersBad eraseblock 0 at 0x0000000017:19
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r2d2rogersthat's the NAND though...isn't that the internal flash?17:19
lardmanGeneralAntilles: feel free to close 2218 if you feel it's sorted, I've not tested it17:19
r2d2rogersStskeeps: looks like it mounted the ext3 correct with no errors17:21
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Stskeepsr2d2rogers: edit /etc/fstab and set remove errors=remount-ro. another person who got it on his mmc fixed it by the sdhc kernel installing17:23
Stskeepsas it switched to read only for him too17:23
Stskeepspossibly try lower mhz?17:23
r2d2rogerswill try remount first and go to that17:24
Stskeepsmount -o remount,rw /17:24
r2d2rogersthat worked...17:24
r2d2rogerstouch test.txt made the file17:24
r2d2rogersdoing resolv.conf now17:25
r2d2rogersapt-get update running17:25
r2d2rogersI know I was getting the :omapCardInit: couldn't open dispc gfx plane error last night17:27
Stskeepsyeah, but that's because apt-get install nit-env-x won't work17:28
Stskeepsnit-env-lxde will straight away17:28
Stskeepsit's a weirdass kernel thing17:28
r2d2rogersk so install the nit-env-lxde or check that it's installed?17:29
r2d2rogersis installed already..17:30
r2d2rogersdoh... my networking on my workstation is messed up now17:33
wiza /join #dojo17:35
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r2d2rogersStskeeps: ok I'm sorted out, what should I do to figure out why the normal deblet boot stops at the end and sits on the progress screen?17:36
Stskeepsls -l /etc/init.d/x*17:37
r2d2rogers-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1457 Sep 11 13:58 /etc/init.d/x-server-prepare17:38
r2d2rogers-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1777 Mar 23  2008 /etc/init.d/x11-common17:38
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dnearyAny sign of Tim about?17:42
GeneralAntillesdneary, hardly ever on IRC17:42
GeneralAntillesI need to pester him about that.17:43
GeneralAntillesHe's pretty responsive to emails, though.17:43
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, you raise an interesting point about the initfs17:44
GeneralAntillesIf it's going away for Fremantle, what are our options as far as a "recovery" mode?17:44
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: nada17:45
Stskeepsreboot loop=reflash17:45
GeneralAntillesWhat about multiboot?17:45
dnearyGeneralAntilles: There's no need to force someone to come onto IRC :)17:45
dnearyJaffa: Ping?17:45
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: depends on bootloader i guess17:46
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GeneralAntillesdneary, there is when they're council members. ;)17:46
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: you following my reconstructed updates? :P17:46
dnearyGeneralAntilles: I don't think so17:46
* GeneralAntilles does.17:46
GeneralAntillesand I'm chair17:46
GeneralAntillessoooooo. . . . :P17:46
dnearyOne of the things that was said during the election campaign was "I'm a maverick. She's a maverick."17:46
dneary(ooh - wrong election)17:47
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dnearyOne of the things that was said during the campaign was that no-one has time to follow everything - that's why there are 5 council members17:47
dnearyGeneralAntilles: You wouldn't expect all the council members to be active on every thread on itT would you?17:48
GeneralAntillesCertainly not, and I don't expect anybody to be here 24/717:50
GeneralAntillesJust popping in every once and a while is good, though.17:50
lardmandoes that mean I can skip the meetings then>17:51
lardmanI volunteer myself to be checking the fora and email lists while the meetings are on, for the good of the team, etc.17:52
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dnearylardman: i volunteer to be beer taster for the after-meeting booze-up during the meeting - just to be safe17:54
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lardmanyeah, I reckon I can handle that, as long as I can miss some more (already negative) blog postings to take the pressure off me17:55
lardmangotta run, need to see optician, sure there's a joke in there somewhere17:56
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Stskeepsqwerty12, GeneralAntilles: , - Initfs comments and general structure?18:06
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Stskeeps(just changed some structure :P)18:10
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* Stskeeps pokes qwerty12 with a stick18:17
qwerty12oi :P18:18
qwerty12You've summed up everything that I could want out of the initfs and then some :)18:18
Stskeepsany comments on my initfs vision? :P18:18
Stskeepshehe, good18:18
Stskeepsyou've hacked in it more than i have :P18:18
qwerty12Nah, I go for cosmetic hacks :)18:18
qwerty12Except for mtd-tools (fanoush did this before me) & g_serial, I haven't added much functionality wise :)18:19
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* Stskeeps ponders putting ubuntumin for a spin.18:20
* qwerty12 times how long it takes for network manager in intrepid to fuck up my wlan018:20
* Mousey thinks . o O ( ubuntumin? )18:20
StskeepsMousey: i debootstrapped a ubuntu mojo minbase for tablet and pondering to make it boot and see how it is18:20
Stskeeps in 69m jffs2 flash18:21
Stskeeps(my maemo is 330m uncompressed atm)18:21
* Mousey dilligently clicks18:21
Stskeepsand that one is 130m or so with no attempt to make it smaller/strip down)18:22
Mouseyyah, i don't see an X server18:22
Stskeepsyeah, yet :P18:22
Mouseyi like all these other shoehorn versions of distros, what i wish for is a DE who's UI is finger-friendly18:23
Jaffadneary: not got time to draft a proper email. Your plan about design sounds fine (although I'm in a grumpy design mood after lots of design meetings this week at work)18:24
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r2d2rogersStskeeps: got a minute?18:26
dnearyJaffa: Cool, thanks for your support18:26
dneary"a proper email" would be "yeah, sure, I'm up for that"18:26
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: mm?18:27
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r2d2rogersStskeeps: didn't want to interupt while you were working on the wiki page, but you seemed to recognize my situation earlier...18:27
Stskeepsoh, my apologies, friday afternoon, easily distracted :P18:28
r2d2rogersno worries, I like the direction I see maemo heading since the cumminity coucil was formed18:28
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: trying to move maemo in the right direction in terms of system arch :P18:29
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: try enable console mode and see why it won't boot lxde18:29
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Stskeeps(disabling splash screen)18:29
r2d2rogerslast we looked, I had two item matching your last question:18:30
r2d2rogersroot@-:/root# ls -l /etc/init.d/x*18:30
r2d2rogers-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1457 Sep 11 13:58 /etc/init.d/x-server-prepare18:30
r2d2rogers-rwxr-xr-x 1 root root 1777 Mar 23  2008 /etc/init.d/x11-common18:30
Stskeepsyeah, that's a good sign18:30
Stskeepsnit-env-lxde -was- installed?18:30
Stskeepsls -l /etc/rc2.d/x*18:31
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Stskeepsbut basically, enable usbnet in console, process enter or center a couple of times and it continues booting18:32
r2d2rogersnothing matched that pattern18:32
r2d2rogersall in rc2.d start with S18:32
Stskeepsanything with x in there? :P18:33
r2d2rogersS21x-server-prepare -> ../init.d/x-server-prepare18:33
Stskeepscontinue booting or something and see what console says18:33
r2d2rogerscontinue booting how? <G>.18:34
Stskeepspress center button on 770 or something18:34
Stskeepsa couple of times18:34
Stskeepslike console says18:34
r2d2rogersAh I'm in the fail save menu I thinlk18:34
Stskeepshmm :P18:34
r2d2rogersgotta pop the battery there right?18:34
Stskeepsyou still connected through usb and it doesnt switch to console?18:35
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r2d2rogersheld down "home" button during deblet boot18:35
Stskeepsk, and selected usb and ok?18:35
r2d2rogersand got the usb networking up and am telnetted in18:35
Stskeepshmm, should switch to framebuffer console as well the18:36
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r2d2rogerswill do that now18:36
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r2d2rogersStskeeps: regular deblet boot gives me the splash screen with a stopped progress bar a fraction from the end18:43
Stskeepsyeah, - are you able to get console mode working? :P18:43
r2d2rogersif I enable host mode...18:43
r2d2rogersI have a usb keyboard18:44
Stskeeps(from rescue)18:44
r2d2rogers"activate console on frame buffer?"18:45
Stskeepsit should tell you why things wont boot :P18:45
qwerty12Stskeeps, penguinbait got gparted working :P18:45
Stskeepsqwerty12: .. how?18:45
vincenzo88Someone have a solution to install "build-essential" on maemo diablo ? (to compile with Qt)18:45
r2d2rogersgets me to a login prompt18:45
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: no errors?18:45
r2d2rogersnon I can see18:46
qwerty12Stskeeps, I guess changing the LD_PRELOAD_PATH. He says he uses a newer gtk & glib18:46
Stskeepsno, it's simpler, ld_library_path to gtkmm18:46
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: battery pop and then telnetd in i guess :P18:47
qwerty12~curse intrepid for not reading my sysctl.conf at boottime18:48
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, intrepid for not reading my sysctl.conf at boottime !18:48
woglindevincenzo88 put extras-devel into your sources.list18:49
woglindeand install qt18:49
woglindeno need to build your self18:49
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: and /etc/init.d/gdm start18:49
vincenzo88i can qmake but no make18:49
vincenzo88"make not found"18:49
woglindeinstall scratchbox18:49
woglindeits no fun to compile on the nokia18:49
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r2d2rogersWarning: Fake start-stop-daemon called, doing nothing.18:50
r2d2rogerswas that supposed to be removed ?18:50
vincenzo88Yes but not work i have an error on qemu18:50
woglindethe soultion is mentioned in the readme18:50
qwerty12vincenzo88, installing build-essential on the device requires adding the SDK repo:
woglindevincenzo put export SBOX_CPUTRANSPARENCY_METHOD=/scratchbox/devkits/cputransp/bin/qemu-arm-cvs-m into sratchbox .bashrc18:51
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: rm /usr/sbin/invoke-rc.d, mv /usr/sbin/invoke-rc.d.REAL /usr/sbin/invoke-rc.d18:52
Stskeepsand do the same for /sbin/start-stop-daemon18:52
vincenzo88thanks woglinde, i will try this18:52
woglindevincenzo dont be afraid of the segfaults18:52
woglindeit works anyway18:52
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: just added to instructions :P that's a pretty major step18:54
r2d2rogersyeah I was wondering about that18:54
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r2d2rogersbut I slept after that part18:54
r2d2rogersnow reboot yes?18:55
r2d2rogersdid you also change that typo from bin to sbin?18:55
Stskeepsit was about start-stop-daemon i guess18:56
r2d2rogerscrap I missed the boot to deblet....18:56
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r2d2rogersI see a mouse cursor and it responds to touch screen...18:58
Stskeepsfirst step18:58
r2d2rogersyup loaded18:58
r2d2rogersthannk you very much!18:58
Stskeepshow is responsiveness?18:58
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r2d2rogersreally good18:59
r2d2rogersbetter than maemo with the web browser loaded...18:59
r2d2rogersbut i haven't loaded anytyhing yet ....18:59
r2d2rogersUnable to establish connection with FAM18:59
Stskeepsthat's usual18:59
Stskeepshappens to me for some strange reason too19:00
Stskeepsit's kinda ambivalent regarding wanting fam or not.19:00
Stskeepsdo me a favour and note your success in and if you had to do something else than the sbin thing and the removal thing19:00
Stskeepsfeel free to say if my instructions are bad or not19:01
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Stskeepscurrent issues: WLAN driver needs a recompile, should be possible if you know a bit of scratchbox..19:01
r2d2rogersI guess I'll learn <G>19:01
qwerty12Stskeeps, s/fam/gamin :P19:01
r2d2rogersexposing my ignorance again, but what are they? <G>19:02
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Stskeepsr2d2rogers: what is what? :P19:02
qwerty12Stskeeps, gamin implements fam. gamin is newer either way19:02
Stskeepsi updated 770Port instructions19:02
Stskeepsqwerty12: ah.19:02
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Stskeepsqwerty12: so something conflicts it19:02
r2d2rogersFAM and Gamin?19:02
woglindefam the stupid daemon from sgi?19:03
qwerty12~wikipedia gamin19:03
infobotAt (URL), Wikipedia explains: "{{distinguish|Gamine}} 'Gamin', a monitoring system for files and directories, independently implements a subset of FAM, the File Alteration Monitor. Running as a service, it allows for the detection of modifications to a file or directory. 'gam_server' functions as a daemon for Gamin. The word "gamin" in French (where it also has a female form "gamine") refers to a boy,19:03
woglindeno one needs this19:03
woglindeonly crap that suck cpu cycles19:04
* r2d2rogers would agree19:04
qwerty12true, true, but some programs want it :( and in that case, I would say to use gamin instead19:04
woglindeqwerty which program?19:04
qwerty12woglinde, only one that comes off the top of my head is pcmanfm19:05
woglindehm this reminds writing a wiki articel about programms that require ssh and clashes within scratchbox19:05
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Stskeepswoglinde: i'm doing a "Maemo "Reconstructed"" wiki page.. when it's done i would love Scratchbox horrorstories too :P19:07
woglindestskeeps nope just fake it with a dummy deb build with  equiv19:08
woglindeqwerty whats pcmanfm19:08
qwerty12woglinde, monitoring a folder for changes? :P19:09
Stskeepswhat qwerty12 said19:09
woglindethats fam is doing19:09
woglindewhy need a wrapper program for it19:09
woglindethis sounds stupid19:09
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Stskeepspcmanfm probably uses fam to do the hard work for it :P19:10
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woglindeso pcmanfm is polling fam which is polling fs19:10
r2d2rogersStskeeps: posted19:13
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Stskeepsr2d2rogers: ta19:14
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r2d2rogersanyone had luck in getting a bluetooth keyboard working?19:16
Stskeepsfool with bluez-utils i guess19:17
* Stskeeps wonders if he'll get intensely unpopular by some of the visions in this wiki.19:17
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r2d2rogersthanks again for your help Stskeeps19:18
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, no. . . .19:18
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, I can't imagine why you'd think these opinions would be unpopular19:19
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i'm slamming the SDK a bit atm :P19:21
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, does _anybody_ like that thing?19:21
Stskeepsthat's true.19:21
GeneralAntillesWell, I suppose you could get a zeenix-reaction out of a Nokian, maybe, but I doubt it.19:22
GeneralAntillesand who cares? :P19:22
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, makes sense to me.19:39
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Stskeepstrying to make reasonable statements about this so19:41
Stskeepsstill got a long way to go :P19:41
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RST38hGoofle Phone comes with two vibrators.19:50
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RST38hAnd moo to all of you too19:50
Stskeepstwo? for extra pleasure?19:50
RST38hwho knows, but it has got on in display and one in kbd module19:51
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dmsupermanI have chinook right now, and it's installed on my internal SD card. I want to upgrade to diablo, and do the same thing. That package that does it (and partitions your SD card for you), is there a diablo version?19:59
dmsupermanI don't remember who made the one I have19:59
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pupniki followed a howto.  there's a package that auto-installs your OS to SD?20:02
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dmsupermanpupnik: There was for chinook20:05
dmsupermanI was doing a howto but found that the package made it cake to do20:05
dmsupermanIt partitioned your SD into 25%/75%, copied internal memory to external, and modded the bootloader20:05
dmsupermanSomebody that hangs in this channel wrote it20:06
dmsupermanWhen you boot into the internal memory install you hear linux torvalds talk20:06
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RST38hpupnik: there?20:07
lcukwhat does linus say to you?20:07
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* lcuk prepares the straight jacket20:07
RST38htells him to fuck off, in finnish20:07
dmsupermanlcuk: Heh20:07
RST38hthen makes obscene penguin sounds!20:07
dmsupermanI think it's that soundbyte where he pronounces linux20:08
vincenzo88Re !20:08
lcukso, have i got this right, you hear linus talking, have you confirmed others can hear the same thing?20:08
vincenzo88I think I forgot to turn off my N810 and it is in its case for the weekend. Do you think the N810 can burn?20:10
lcukdmsuperman, well i keep my in a wooden crate - i left it charging all day with a book over the top of it and it survived20:10
lcukwas too hot to hold though20:10
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RST38hcruel lcuk20:12
pupnikhi RST38h20:12
pupniket al20:13
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* pupnik is listening to some dank dubstep... (192kb/s)20:14
RST38hpupnik: and get EMULib from there20:15
lcukRST38h, have YOU ever heard linus speaking from your tablet?20:15
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pupnikgood deal, thanks RST38h20:16
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dmsupermanHrm, I love irc logs20:18
RST38hlcuk: No. Should I? What substance am I supposed to abuse for that?20:18
dmsupermanpenguinbait made the package I used before20:18
lcuk<dmsuperman> When you boot into the internal memory install you hear linux torvalds talk20:18
lcukdmsuperman, excellent20:18
RST38hheard about that a few times20:18
lcukdid he make it specifically for you due to problems, or was this a generic package?20:18
dmsupermanlcuk: It was a generic package20:19
dmsupermanlcuk: To automate the entire process20:19
lcukwith questions?20:19
dmsupermanOnly I'm not sure if that's the chinook one or diablo20:20
dmsupermanBecause IIRC diablo introduces a new bootloader or something so you don't have to reflash to upgrade20:21
dmsupermanSo I'm not sure if the old one would work with diablo20:21
lcukyeah dmsuperman i wouldnt like to take the chance20:22
lcukbut penguinbait comes in often so you can ask him20:23
lcukand hes around itT a lot20:23
RST38h"...Because as far as I can tell, everyone is going as Sarah Palin tonight. Male, female, young, old, gay, straight, human, animal, it doesnt matter. If you dont want to see thousands of fake (or should I say faker) Sarah Palins roaming the streets, lock your doors and keep the curtains closed."20:23
dmsupermanAssuming that's October this year I'd assume diablo20:24
dmsupermanAnd I'm pretty sure it is because he didn't have the advanced one when I installed in may20:24
dmsupermanI'll take a chance and let you guys know how it goes20:24
lcukits on the frontpage of his blog, so year its this year20:25
dmsupermanDo I have to attach my n800 to my PC to install diablo?20:26
GeneralAntillesDiablo has nothing to do with bootloaders.20:26
infobotboot-sd is probably
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dmsupermanCan I install without attaching to my PC?20:30
sp3000hrm, is the encoding in the terminal newly screwed up or am I imagining things20:34
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infobothmm... flashing is
sp3000str: open terminal, imput accented (outside ascii) characters, hit backspace several times20:37
sp3000expected: stop at original position20:37
sp3000result: backspace goes over prompt20:38
sp3000also, if I start a screen after ssh'ing somewheres, my other devices terminals tend to disagree about the encoding in that screen session20:38
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sp3000so it looks like it's being utf-8 and claiming that it's not, which confuses things20:46
sp3000or something.20:46
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sp3000what setting do you see if you say 'locale' in terminal?20:50
sp3000(just one value will do, provided they'll be the same save for a blank LC_ALL)20:51
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dmsupermanI'm flashing from linux, is this a normal message to recieve at the end of the install? Sending request 0x83 failed: Cannot send after transport endpoint shutdown20:52
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vincenzo88I have neverflashing on linux but on windows all is automatic ;)20:54
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dmsupermanUhm, that doesn't really answer my question20:55
vincenzo88I don't know, i developp on N810 for 1 week :(20:55
sp3000do you get that message every time?20:55
* sp3000 doesn't recall if he's seen it or not20:56
dmsupermansp3000: I only just did it20:56
dmsupermansp3000: And it booted fine after that20:56
dmsupermansp3000: I've never flashed from linux before20:56
GeneralAntillesEhehe, lcuk, remember that horseshoe crab?20:57
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* sp3000 flashes chinook21:01
woglindesp3000 why?21:01
sp3000sssh I'm hunting wegwessions21:01
dmsupermanIs there a reason that while entering passwords the characters are showed and then turned into asterisks?21:03
GeneralAntillesSame reason passwords are masked on desktops? . . .21:03
woglindedmsuperman soyou can sea if you are typed the right one21:04
sp3000to avoid typos I suppose, and hoping the someone watching over your shoulder isn't quite attentive enough to make out the password from those flashes21:04
dmsupermanGeneralAntilles: No, I mean for a half-second it shows the character and _then_ turns into an asterisk21:04
GeneralAntillesSo you know what you actually entered.21:04
GeneralAntillesSince virtual text entry isn't quite as reliable as a real keyboard.21:05
dmsupermanAh, I see21:05
mikkov_can I set osso-xterm font size from commandline? -fs didn't seem to work21:05
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sp3000hm, no, same issue on chinook21:06
woglindesp3000 I cant remeber the chars this fast21:06
* sp3000 wonders who to blame21:06
dmsupermanAm I right to assume apt-get21:08
dmsupermanapt-get -f install merely tries to reinstall the last packages, also installing dependencies?21:08
dmsupermanOr just the dependencies for the last package?21:09
sp3000apt-get -f -install should really be apt-get trytofixthisbrokenstate21:09
dmsupermanSo it does more then?21:09
dmsupermanIn ubuntu apt-get install automatically does dependencies, but I see that's not the case in maemo21:09
sp3000it does the same thing21:10
GeneralAntillesapt-get pulls in dependencies21:10
woglindeapt-get is the same as on ubuntu and debian21:10
qwerty12_N800mikkov_, font size setting is in gconf so gconftool should do it (i cant remember key, sorry)21:10
woglindeand it pulls the depends21:10
dmsupermanThe following packages have unmet dependencies:21:10
woglindedmsuperman then the package is broken21:10
dmsupermanThat's what it said when I tried to apt-get install wget21:10
woglindeyou cant blame apt-get for it21:10
dmsupermanwoglinde: This happens with anything that has deps21:10
dmsupermanwoglinde: I do apt-get -f install, it installs the deps, then I can install the package normally21:11
woglindethen your sources.list is wrong some how21:11
woglindedid you apt-get update?21:11
dmsupermanwoglinde: I literally just installed diablo21:11
dmsupermanwoglinde: Yes21:11
woglindeah you have to enable extra21:11
dmsupermanwoglinde: This happened on both my previous chinook installs too21:11
woglindeits disabled per default21:11
dmsupermanwoglinde: Extra is enabled also21:11
woglindemaybe enable extras-devel too?21:12
dmsupermanI enabled all the21:12
dmsupermanrepos that were installed by default21:12
sp3000dmsuperman: the package state is slightly inconsistent in the flash image unfortunately21:12
sp3000which is why apt complains when you try to do anything21:12
sp3000until you apt-get -f install21:13
dmsupermansp3000: What do you mean?21:13
woglindedmsuperman you could try the normal paketmanager and start update theire21:13
dmsupermanwoglinde: You mean the gui one?21:13
woglindethe latest flashimage does not have the latest diablo21:13
dmsupermanwoglinde: That's where I started. I enabled the repo, updated the list, and installed openssh21:14
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dmsupermanwoglinde: Now I'm SSH'ed in, and I try to install and get the deps issue21:14
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woglindedmsuperman try dist-upgrade via the gui ui first21:14
dmsupermanwoglinde: dist-upgrade? I just downloaded the latest version21:15
woglindedmsuperman how could ssh in? ssh server is not installed per default21:15
sp3000dmsuperman: I don't recall the exact details, they're findable on list and forums21:15
dmsupermanwoglinde: "15:11 < dmsuperman> woglinde: That's where I started. I enabled the repo, updated the list, and installed openssh"21:15
dmsupermanwoglinde: I installed openssh from the app manager21:15
GeneralAntilleskernel-diablo-flasher initfs-flasher and flash-and-reboot aren't included with the 23-14 FIASCO image21:16
woglindeand it didnt shpw you any updates?21:16
GeneralAntillesBut apt-get -f install or upgrading via SSU in Application Manager will install them.21:16
dmsupermanGeneralAntilles: Yeah, that's what happened21:16
dmsupermanI thought nano was included by default. What's the package called that installs it?21:16
sp3000dmsuperman: for details21:16
qwerty12_N800mikkov_, gconftool --set --type=int /ap rm/font_size <whatever>21:16
qwerty12_N800sorry, gconftool --set --type=int /apps/osso/xterm/font_size 121:17
dmsupermansp3000: Ah, thanks21:17
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dmsupermanWhat package contains nano?21:22
woglindenano - free Pico clone with some new features21:22
qwerty12_N800dmsuperman, you get vi by default :p. nano  is in nano21:23
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dmsupermanapt-get install nano21:23
dmsupermanE: Couldn't find package nano21:24
sp3000it's in the tools repo21:25
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dmsupermanSee, like here21:26
dmsupermanI went to install that package21:26
qwerty12_N800use dpkg21:26
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dmsupermanAnd it said:
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sp3000yeah, because you don't have the repository it comes from enabled21:26
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cyrus__anyone running deblet? Is there anyway to speed it up, seems to run fairly slow (compared to maemo) when on the sd card21:27
sp3000so it's no surprise that deps are missing21:27
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qwerty12_N800i have it from the sdk repo:
sp3000yeah, but you don't want the sdk repo on your device21:28
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* qwerty12_N800 keeps it with no problems21:28
Stskeepscyrus__: various.. (don't take the nscd), but may break things.. it's a experimental system but i did think it's not -that- bad compared to what it pulls off :)21:28
GeneralAntillesdist-upgrade and BOOM21:28
woglindeqwerty12 your are power user21:28
woglindedmsuperman seems not21:28
Stskeepscyrus__: or activate performance mode in cpufreq governor21:29
dmsupermanwoglinde: What seems not?21:30
r2d2rogersStskeeps: where's the best general resource for deblet options?  any wiki or webpage??21:30
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: and internet tablet talk alternatives -> debian forum21:30
Stskeeps770 port is in it's infancy, just so you're warned :P21:30
r2d2rogerscool, trying to get bluetooth working21:30
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r2d2rogersyeah I'm used to being on the afterthought hardware anymore ;)21:30
woglindedmsuperman power user21:30
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Stskeepsr2d2rogers: you might have to copy in some firmware, look at dmesg always if it doesnt load :P21:31
Stskeepsand then bluez-utils21:31
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Stskeepsit's a debian, so it acts like a debian would21:31
r2d2rogersgood to me21:31
* r2d2rogers went from debian to ubuntu21:31
Stskeepsi'm trying to boot a minimal ubuntu image on my n80021:32
Stskeepsthink i might suceed21:32
r2d2rogersI might have some testers for you from my LoCo group21:32
r2d2rogersLocal Community Team for Ubuntu21:32
r2d2rogersLouisiana in this case21:33
Stskeepsit's not really difficult to get ubuntu going, - had it long time ago but the port isn't complete21:33
Stskeepsbut i'm trying to make a setup where we squeeze it into 256mb flash21:33
dmsupermansp3000: I enabled the repository and it still makes me use -f install to fix deps21:33
Stskeepsand see if we can base a maemo on that21:33
r2d2rogers::nods:: I think deblet appealed so I could get my brain going into hacking again...21:33
qwerty12_N80036-5 fiasco image is up on tablets-dev.21:33
r2d2rogersread less ebooks and do more useful stuff21:34
sp3000dmsuperman: did apt-get -f install actually work?21:34
sp3000dmsuperman: also, full output21:34
cyrus__Stskeeps - what is performane mode21:34
r2d2rogersbut thinking of that... how hard to get a maemo dual boot install on another MMC to boot from the boot menu?21:34
sp3000cyrus__: keeps processor at max freq, dunno if that has any positive impact really21:35
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: easy21:35
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: add a .item in /etc/bootmenu.d21:35
Stskeeps(don't have _LINUXRC line(21:35
sp3000dmsuperman: the dpkg -i earlier may have left things slightly confused for example21:35
Stskeepsand refresh_bootmenu.d in maemo21:35
cyrus__sp3000 - how do I set that and what is the disadvantage, battery run out quicker?21:36
* sp3000 doesn't recall what actions leave things halfway installed and what don't21:36
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dmsupermansp3000: sp3000
sp3000cyrus__: find /sys/ -name '*gov*'; and yeah, that comes to mind21:37
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Stskeepsdeblet isn't exactly the most power friendly animal on the planet :)21:37
qwerty12_N800echo performance > /sys/devices/system/cpu/cpu0/cpufreq/scaling_governor21:37
sp3000dmsuperman: yeah, you can see there it says nano is installed, and later it says "Setting up nano" so nano was in a half-installed (unpacked but not configured) state from the previous attempt21:38
* Stskeeps attempts booting ubuntumin.21:38
sp3000without that halfway attempt it wouldn't have asked for -f install since it would have gotten the dep right away21:38
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penguinbaitis there an easy way I can disable/enable the auto mounting in maemo of /media/mmc1 and mmc221:39
qwerty12_N800tried stopping ke-recv?21:40
sp3000(somewhere further in scrollback you'd find "dependency problems prevent configuration of nano" or something to that effect)21:40
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penguinbaithave not tried anything, just thought I ask before I went looking :)21:40
qwerty12_N800heh, /etc/init.d/ke-recv stop21:40
qwerty12_N800try that and see if it works :)21:41
sp3000and what other events you lose :)21:41
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qwerty12_N800it manages mounting when the covers are closed21:41
qwerty12_N800sp3000, probably internet call starting when the camera is popped open :)21:42
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penguinbaituh, that rebooted the system, ke-recv stop; gparted, disk scan > reboot21:45
penguinbaitthanks for playing though :)21:46
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qwerty12_N800shit, heh21:46
r2d2rogerspenguinbait: take out auto in fstab?21:46
qwerty12_N800probably because dsmetool starts it21:46
penguinbaitit only has mmc1 in fstab yet mounts both mmc1 and 2 so its not in there21:46
* r2d2rogers steps down from the stage, "but it was fun to play!"21:47
sp3000echo /usr/sbin/*mount* may be of interest21:49
qwerty12_N800they're scripts called by ke-recv from what i can see21:49
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penguinbaitwhoops, I was booted to SD, thats why21:51
Stskeepswoo, Handhelds 8.04 Nokia-N800-23-14 tty121:55
qwerty12_N800I want intrepid on the device, not hardy! :p21:56
Stskeepsf*ckoff, build it then :P21:56
qwerty12_N800congrats :)21:56
Stskeeps(this is the minimal ubuntu image btw)21:56
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yergaqwerty12_N800, need octave many dependences?22:07
qwerty12_N800yerga, yes :/22:07
woglindehm seems 1522:08
yergait seems not very easy22:08
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Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: interesting fact of the day. login prompt in 12 seconds, starting from pressing enter in boot menu.22:09
woglindehm why the hacl octave needs libpcre322:09
penguinbaitman, I really don't want to mv mount mount-hold, any other ideas on how to stop automounting /media/mmc1 and 2?22:09
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, haha, nice. forget those 5 second boot threads :p22:10
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: and this is with consolefb which obviously slows a bit22:10
Stskeepsthat has to hold some value :P22:11
qwerty12_N800penguinbait, tried messing around with the gconf values in /system/osso/af?22:12
Stskeepsi'm kinda disturbed though that upstart seems to wipe out environment variables though22:12
penguinbaittrying now qwerty22:13
Stskeepsbut i guess it's a sideeffect22:13
penguinbaitthought I had it with this :( hal-disable-polling --device /dev/mmcblk122:13
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, sure it's not dash? it's pretty retarded to use as a boot shell in maemo22:13
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: it's upstart, just read a post about it22:14
Stskeepsit decides what things to pass on to the job22:14
Stskeepswhich i guess is sane22:14
Stskeeps12 seconds.. that's kinda amazing though22:14
woglindeand parallel driver init partly in .2822:14
Stskeepsparrallel did nothing for deblet boot process really22:15
woglinde+ upstart and 5 seconds are come closer22:15
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zer0mdqhey, anyone knows if there is a way to get Wavemon on my n810?22:23
zer0mdqi cannot find any packages :S22:23
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zer0mdqand it's a really cool soft to have on such a portable device22:23
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* GeneralAntilles sighs
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zakkkkmHow long will it take to flash a OS2007 on a nokia n800 to latest diablo ?22:26
zakkkkmroughly ?22:26
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dmsupermanzakkkkm: Took me about 10 minutes22:27
BULLE_zakkkkm: not that long, 15 minutes max ?22:27
zakkkkmthank you22:27
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: idea isn't completely insane, but the use is low22:27
woglindeoh the n800 is slow22:27
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Stskeepsand may not fit in tablets22:27
Stskeepsfor certain bands, sure22:27
r2d2rogersStskeeps: I fail at booting my other mmc22:28
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: show me your .item22:28
Stskeeps(i might disappear, gf wants to see a movie with me)22:28
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, no, the nonsense about me somehow banning him from maemo.rog22:28
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: oh22:28
r2d2rogersITEM_MODULES="mbcache jbd ext3"22:29
Stskeepsdidn't read that part :P22:29
GeneralAntillesi.e., fucking idiot whiner22:29
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: oh, it should be rw, not ro22:29
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: and pastebin :P22:29
Stskeepsr2d2rogers: yup, write "rw" instead of rw22:29
r2d2rogershave a good weekend22:29
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: bootable Ubuntu minimal with console, 43.2mb flash22:30
qwerty12_N800nice :)22:30
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zer0mdqno? nobody knows about wavemon?22:37
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vincenzo88Someone know if the N8x0 have a protection without high temperature ?22:43
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vincenzo88goodbye all, i will sleep!22:51
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yergasomeone have compiled gnuplot 4.2.x in scratchbox?23:09
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AStormdoes anyone have an url for Google Hybrid maps?23:30
AStorm(to use in mapper)23:31
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