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| lardman|tv | melmoth: thanks, I googled and found that, looking now | 00:20 |
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| lardman | I relented and bought the GTK+ book | 01:00 |
| lardman | searching the interweb is painful | 01:00 |
| lcuk | :) dead tree | 01:00 |
| lardman | well, as long as I don;t burn it there's no CO2 lost ;) | 01:01 |
| lcuk | real books are so much better than the net, i remember poring through the amiga programming manual for months :) | 01:03 |
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| lcuk | information being so free now is a blessing and a curse - it gets in the way of focus | 01:03 |
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| Grackle | Well written documentation is great. | 01:03 |
| Grackle | I recommend supermicro's manuals, they are refreshingly well written. | 01:04 |
| lcuk | its is essential in my mind - but also a very difficult thing to do and an art form to master | 01:04 |
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| lcuk | writing good documentation is as alien to me as coding the dsp ;) | 01:04 |
| lardman | I far prefer paper for reading, especially for reference | 01:04 |
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| lardman | anyway, GTK+ seems pretty nice, and easy too, just need some more readily available reference material to make it less frustrating | 01:07 |
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| lcuk | have we got it for this platform? | 01:08 |
| lardman | it's called a book ;) | 01:08 |
| lcuk | not the book you plonker! i mean the library lol | 01:08 |
| lardman | gtk+! | 01:09 |
| lardman | of course | 01:09 |
| lcuk | is it greatly different to the gtk that ive seen? or have i been tinkering with gtk all this time? | 01:09 |
| * lcuk doesnt know | 01:09 | |
| lardman | all the same | 01:09 |
| lcuk | with the same horrendous c interface ;) | 01:10 |
| lardman | of course | 01:10 |
| lardman | :) | 01:10 |
| lcuk | i dont think ANY c interface is nice actually | 01:10 |
| lcuk | im so embedded in vb's object.method(arg) syntax doing method(object,arg) feels wrong | 01:12 |
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| lardman | the SIBO C used in the Psion 3 was quite nice | 01:17 |
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| lcuk | lardman, nice set of libraries allowing decent device access? | 01:18 |
| lardman | no, it implemented classes in C | 01:19 |
| lardman | was quite nifty | 01:19 |
| lcuk | nice | 01:19 |
| lcuk | vala does similar ;) it compiles to c | 01:19 |
| lcuk | like the original cfront :) | 01:19 |
| lcuk | (c++ predecessor) | 01:19 |
| lardman | yeah, this was unenforced by the compiler, just through coding structure | 01:19 |
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| lcuk | heh, with a decent set of macros you could get close | 01:20 |
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| lardman | yeah, I remember someone wrote some for OPL, called it OOPL | 01:21 |
| lcuk | i tried it just before the summit - had reference counting and basic inheritence and constructors and destructors and instancing | 01:21 |
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| lcuk | lardman, awww cant find anything on that (early models in any language stuff interest me greatly) | 01:24 |
| lcuk | im goin for the night anyway, inspiration strikes.. | 01:26 |
| lcuk | gnite lardman | 01:27 |
| lardman | night lcuk, If I find a link I'll post it | 01:27 |
| lardman | check the log tomorrow | 01:27 |
| lcuk | k thx | 01:28 |
| pupnik | see if it flattened your neighbors dog? | 01:29 |
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| lardman | lcuk: well here's OPL (or at least a quick intro): http://www.symbioosi.net/English/opl-programming.html, here's OOPL: http://web.archive.org/web/20050130130448/www.geocities.com/SiliconValley/9577/oopl.html | 01:36 |
| lardman | I have the sibo SDK somewhere, but can't seem to find it atm (I found it on the interweb back in the old days) | 01:37 |
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| lcuk | would a basic like language work on this device - i mean real old style but working fast and well on the graphics screen | 01:39 |
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| lardman | sibo, cool: http://scss.com.au/family/andrew/pdas/psion/ooprog.pdf | 01:40 |
| lardman | we have Python, that's pretty basic-like | 01:40 |
| lcuk | i suppose its not the language, but the ide that i mean | 01:41 |
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| lardman | I'm not sure the IDE makes much difference really, unless it's something VB-like | 01:42 |
| lcuk | sure it does - the closest we have to a designable ide at the moment is numpty physics - stop the program, make changes to the design, rerun | 01:43 |
| lcuk | we don't have that on maemo - development is so disjointed | 01:43 |
| lcuk | i code on one machine, write debug statements compile code, execute and read the console rather than feeling the program | 01:44 |
| lardman | well Python on machine would work fine, and in fact there are already IDEs that do syntax highlighting iirc | 01:45 |
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| lcuk | the more i talk about this, the more i know im gonna write it ;) | 01:45 |
| lardman | :) | 01:45 |
| lcuk | language is only one part - its the gui design, i keep eyeing up my menu key and wanting to press it to stop liqbase | 01:45 |
| lcuk | and view the tiletree side on and manipulate it and stuff :) | 01:46 |
| lcuk | another press takes me to the code window | 01:46 |
| lardman | a VB-like app would be cool | 01:46 |
| lcuk | and a third carries on running | 01:46 |
| lcuk | ok :) ill see how far i get ;) i already dev on device, so even if the gui designer had to recompile, i know what im up against | 01:47 |
| lcuk | but if i put in python bindings it will be simpler anyway | 01:47 |
| lcuk | kot really doesnt like python ;) | 01:48 |
| lardman | I still prefer dev'ing on a PC | 01:48 |
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| lardman | though for something like Python, I'm considering going on device | 01:48 |
| lcuk | its the UI design aspect that appeals to me | 01:48 |
| lardman | hmm, definitely do that off-device! | 01:48 |
| lardman | though I suppose there's no reason for that | 01:48 |
| lcuk | im sick of sketching out what i want and then having to go code it - its a piece of piss to save as template and get the code for me | 01:49 |
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| lcuk | in the released version of liqbase I allow any sketch to have an arbitary name, im allowing selection of named sketches and insertion into a sketch (stamp tool is for ANY sketch not just self..) | 01:51 |
| lcuk | so i should just be able to write a code template and have it executed as required | 01:51 |
| lcuk | ill have a look this weekend at python binding | 01:51 |
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| lardman | I'll have to see the finished thing I think, sorry brain is a bit busy with treeviews atm | 01:52 |
| lcuk | it should automatically create me a typed tree of tiles - how to link that to code im not sure yet | 01:52 |
| lcuk | sos mine ;) | 01:52 |
| lcuk | anyway lardmna, gnite again lol :P | 01:53 |
| lardman | night night :) | 01:53 |
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| pupnik_ | using windows makes me feel like i'm riding a bike with a load of shit in my pants | 03:41 |
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| pupnik | http://www.danpat.fi/janne/flash/windowsrg.swf <- Windows "really good" edition - in your own browser... | 03:49 |
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| pupnik | i want to send the music playing from my laptop or PC to my 770 connected to the home stereo, while also allowing the 770 to play locally | 06:17 |
| * pupnik ponders what is best solution for that | 06:18 | |
| johnx | do you plan to remote control the 770? | 06:19 |
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| pupnik | johnx: well. right now i play stuff on the 770 by ssh-ing to it | 06:23 |
| pupnik | but someone sends me a mp3 link on my laptop.. then i think well... i'd like to route that audio to the 770 | 06:23 |
| pupnik | so i guess the level would be a network-able sound server akin to esd | 06:24 |
| johnx | routing audio is difficult, but running an mpd server on the 770 and mounting a share on your desktop would be easier | 06:24 |
| pupnik | mpd? | 06:24 |
| johnx | http://musicpd.org | 06:24 |
| johnx | basically it's just the backend of a music player | 06:24 |
| johnx | then there are a ton of "clients" that connect to it and tell it to play music | 06:25 |
| johnx | the music has to be on an fs that the daemon can see though | 06:25 |
| pupnik | seems like a good approach for some things. | 06:26 |
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| pupnik | but i'd prefer the more general "send my sound to computer 1, 3 and 5" | 06:27 |
| johnx | well, the reason I suggested mpd was that it's a heck of a lot easier :) | 06:27 |
| pupnik | yes | 06:27 |
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| johnx | a remote esd server should do the trick I guess | 06:28 |
| pupnik | ah esd does it | 06:29 |
| pupnik | http://developer.gnome.org/doc/whitepapers/esd/ | 06:29 |
| johnx | I wonder if the 770 has the bandwidth to handle it... | 06:29 |
| pupnik | 44.1khz stereo needs 1.4 mb/s | 06:31 |
| pupnik | i could also set up icecast mp3/ogg streaming on each source computer, then have a client on the homestereo770 listen permanently to each source computer's stream | 06:33 |
| pupnik | icecast+darkice... will stream anything going over your local soundcard | 06:34 |
| johnx | that's an interesting idea | 06:34 |
| johnx | is that 1.4MB/s or 1.4Mb/s BTW? | 06:34 |
| johnx | <- lazy :) | 06:34 |
| pupnik | bits | 06:37 |
| johnx | ah, that's not too bad then | 06:37 |
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| pupnik | yeah i'd prefer to avoid the mp3/ogg encoding if posisble. so maybe only allow one network esd client to the 770 at a time | 06:39 |
| johnx | an esd server can have as many clients as you want as long as the bandwidth is there | 06:40 |
| pupnik | yar | 06:40 |
| johnx | it's just that all the sound will get mixed and sound horrific if two people play mp3s at the same time :D | 06:41 |
| pupnik | yup | 06:42 |
| pupnik | the mpd and xmms2 solutions are good if all you want is to play from a collection though | 06:42 |
| pupnik | but i'd also like to send the sound there, if i'm playing a movie from a laptop | 06:42 |
| johnx | a combination would work well too :) | 06:43 |
| johnx | no reason to go with just one | 06:43 |
| pupnik | also true | 06:43 |
| pupnik | would also be nice to have the 770 scroll the songtitle in a huge font | 06:43 |
| johnx | there's a couple mpd clients that will do that I think | 06:44 |
| johnx | like mpdosd or something | 06:44 |
| pupnik | ty, this is good stuff | 06:45 |
| johnx | sure, I'm actually thinking of a use for my zaurus 5500 at the same time :) | 06:46 |
| pupnik | then we can also hack this into a mpd/xmms2 client "Querying a database using open source voice control software" http://www.linux.com/feature/134671 | 06:47 |
| johnx | on the mpc side you could do the whole thing in a shell script with the "mpc" client | 06:47 |
| pupnik | hooray for the console | 06:48 |
| pupnik | and pipes | 06:48 |
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| pupnik | still love that 770 | 07:06 |
| * johnx still loves his zaurus 5500 | 07:07 | |
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| pupnik | yeah i would to if i'd ever gotten one | 07:09 |
| johnx | I have too many linux gadgets though :/ | 07:09 |
| * pupnik too | 07:12 | |
| pupnik | i'm hoping to stumble over a thinkpad X40 lying on the street | 07:12 |
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| johnx | they're nice little laptops | 07:13 |
| johnx | I was looking at used X32 thinkpads the other day | 07:13 |
| pupnik | they have usb2.0? | 07:13 |
| johnx | it's centrino / pentium M so I think yes | 07:13 |
| pupnik | my thinkpad A30 only has usb1.0 and that sucks | 07:14 |
| johnx | that's a PIII, right? | 07:14 |
| johnx | P4 added usb2 if my memory serves | 07:14 |
| pupnik | yes. i don't want a p4 laptop | 07:14 |
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| johnx | hah. no one does | 07:14 |
| pupnik | either p3 or a real pentium M | 07:14 |
| johnx | that's why I ended up with a P4 laptop for free :/ | 07:14 |
| johnx | the x series never had a P4 though, so you're in luck :) | 07:15 |
| pupnik | would you take an x32 over x40? | 07:15 |
| johnx | depends on price I suppose | 07:16 |
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| johnx | I'd take an x200 over both :) | 07:16 |
| pupnik | mmm... the keyboard + trackpoint is just ... physically addictive | 07:17 |
| * pupnik pondering selling the acer aspire one for a small old thinkpad | 07:18 | |
| johnx | How much is an X40 around you? | 07:19 |
| pupnik | the ebay sharks want 320-340 euro | 07:22 |
| pupnik | bout 400 usd | 07:22 |
| johnx | An X32 goes for about the same locally, high $300s to low $400s | 07:23 |
| johnx | USD | 07:23 |
| pupnik | bah, others wanting 430 euro for an x31 with 512MB | 07:24 |
| johnx | ha! that's pretty steep | 07:25 |
| pupnik | bbl naptime | 07:25 |
| johnx | 'later | 07:26 |
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| Stskeeps | morn | 08:38 |
| johnx | morning :D | 08:40 |
| johnx | working on making proper deb packages for poky's matchbox desktop | 08:41 |
| Stskeeps | hehe, okay | 08:41 |
| johnx | well it looks nice and I find it usable in angstrom/poky | 08:42 |
| johnx | how goes the maemo-gtk vs gtk fight on your side? | 08:43 |
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| Stskeeps | i wonder about nature of maemo gtk - should it be a drop in replacement for gtk, with certain optimizations that make also normal apps work a little more better on mobile ui, with some extensions to add in for mobile | 08:43 |
| Stskeeps | and then we file bugs on when it collides with normal wms/etc | 08:43 |
| johnx | hmm, well there's precedent for that. Angstrom's gtk has some mobile-specific changes, in the file chooser for example | 08:44 |
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| johnx | so just have "maemo-gtk provides gtk" ? | 08:47 |
| Stskeeps | so it's "not a bug" when normal maemo apps doesn't link into normal gtk, but it's a bug when normal gtk apps doesn't work on maemo gtk | 08:47 |
| Stskeeps | something like that i guess | 08:48 |
| melmoth | Stskeeps: as far as i have underestood gtk app will work on maemo, hildon is just a layer of specific widget build on top of gtk | 08:48 |
| johnx | melmoth, the problem is that maemo's version of gtk is actually different and somewhat incompatible with upstream gtk | 08:48 |
| Stskeeps | melmoth: yeah, but i go a step further, maemo gtk without hildon/matchbox | 08:49 |
| Stskeeps | try a dialog box.. you'll see | 08:49 |
| Stskeeps | impossible to get away | 08:49 |
| Stskeeps | / notification box | 08:49 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: how was it again? i could use it as a drop in replacement but there were use case bugs | 08:50 |
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| johnx | I guess incompatible isn't exactly the right term... | 08:51 |
| johnx | I guess as long as maemo-gtk is a strict superset of gtk it's not as big of a problem | 08:52 |
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| vincenzo88 | Hi ! | 08:52 |
| johnx | hi vincenzo88 | 08:53 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: i guess maemo gtk has it's place in a mobile dist if it doesn't mess normal usage up | 08:54 |
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| johnx | agreed, as long as nokia is willing to take on the effort of essentially maintaining a "forked" gtk and continues to bring new upstream versions in as needed | 08:55 |
| johnx | I guess one can basically think of gtk as a generic library and maemo-gtk and vanilla-gtk are just providers of it | 08:55 |
| vincenzo88 | someone program with Qt on Nokia N800/810 ? (i don't know GTK :() | 08:55 |
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| johnx | you can use qt on the n8x0. there's some info here: http://qt4.garage.maemo.org/ | 08:57 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: that's one step on the way atleast if we can convince nokia of this :P | 08:57 |
| johnx | I haven't tried it though | 08:57 |
| vincenzo88 | Thanks johnx i have see this link but i don't know if it's reliable | 08:59 |
| johnx | Nokia will provide more and more support for Qt in the future. They own the company that makes Qt :) | 09:00 |
| vincenzo88 | Good :D | 09:00 |
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| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: I wonder if a wiki-based discussion from community side "How would you like Maemo 5 to be like, as a developer" could be, where we try from scratch to envision a system from kernel level to hildon | 09:09 |
| Stskeeps | for nokia to take inspiration from | 09:09 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, might be a little late for maemo 5 | 09:09 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: i'm not so sure honestly | 09:09 |
| Stskeeps | something in their statements tell me they're not as far as they would like | 09:10 |
| johnx | well if they'll really have an SDK preview out in november/december that means a lot of the interesting stuff must be set in stone | 09:10 |
| Stskeeps | they released a package diff already, and it's just a normal debian + maemo gtk + hildon sdk | 09:11 |
| Stskeeps | can be distro-independent | 09:11 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: http://qgil.jaiku.com/presence/47635104 , bottom | 09:27 |
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| Stskeeps | just to poke them a bit.. let's see if it's possible to move them in a similar direction as deblet would provide | 09:28 |
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| johnx | :) | 09:28 |
| johnx | stirring up the beehive? | 09:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes, quite, Stskeeps. | 09:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | A wiki page outlining all of the blockers | 09:32 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: well it's about last chance for maemo if they want to, there's a lot of tendancies around :P | 09:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | A list of specifics will help a lot. | 09:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | (detailed) | 09:38 |
| Stskeeps | well i have some ideas in my head :P | 09:38 |
| Stskeeps | http://mobile.slashdot.org/mobile/08/10/29/1710220.shtml <- kinda struck a chord with me (unrelated, but related to the thing about maemo mattering as a not-only-nokia-platform) | 09:39 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: i think the best hint that a community is actually open is ability to stirr the beehive. | 09:43 |
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| RST38h | sts: most chinese "clones" ar absolute shit | 09:53 |
| RST38h | not real clones, too, just vaguely looking like the real thing | 09:54 |
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| Stskeeps | RST38h: probably, but it's an interesting thing anyway | 10:06 |
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| * qwerty12 should write a book on how to ensure you'll need a reflash. I ran cd /usr/llib/ ; strip * for jokes and it wouldn't boot :D | 10:11 | |
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| GeneralAntilles | Alright, as h-a-m is turning into the pilot program for the open development process, I think it would behoove use to get behind it as much as possible. | 10:24 |
| RST38h | Sts: my guess is that it will compete with WinMobile and cause Microsoft to make previous WinMobile versions free | 10:24 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: I agree, let's see if we can make this work. | 10:24 |
| RST38h | Yes, gentlemen, but will community changes be ACCEPTED by Nokia? | 10:25 |
| RST38h | Any qord from Quim? | 10:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, see -developers | 10:25 |
| t_s_o | hey GeneralAntilles, tried entering about: into the tablet browser? i think i see where the microb confusion comes from... | 10:25 |
| RST38h | ok | 10:25 |
| RST38h | see it | 10:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | t_s_o, my suspicion is that the branding is going to change in Fremantle | 10:26 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Probably the biggest reason the MicroB branding applies to only the engine now is because the UI is closed | 10:26 |
| StsN800 | RST38h, i guess nokia may take things from community into 'stable'.. like on other distros | 10:26 |
| GeneralAntilles | and lumping in closed shit with MicroB's good name dirties the brand. | 10:27 |
| t_s_o | would not surprise me, fremantle is starting to look like a "lets burn old bridges" update | 10:27 |
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| t_s_o | and at the same time confuses the hell out of everything... | 10:27 |
| RST38h | General: The funniest thing is, the current "microb ui" is really really thin wrapper around browserd | 10:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Since the browser UI in Fremantle is going open, there's no reason not to include it in the branding | 10:27 |
| RST38h | Why the hell make it closed is beyond me | 10:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | and strong arguments for it. | 10:27 |
| t_s_o | hmm, if its going open, anyone attempting a backport? | 10:28 |
| StsN800 | RST38h, the user should be easily able to change to 'unstable' i guess | 10:28 |
| RST38h | On the other hand, Jaaksi is right: open source only makes sense when there are people willing to work on it | 10:28 |
| t_s_o | RST38h: i smell a "differenziation" reason... | 10:28 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well: Opera (all closed) -> MicroB (open engine) -> MicroB (open everything) | 10:28 |
| RST38h | Call it MicroC! =) | 10:28 |
| t_s_o | :P | 10:29 |
| RST38h | Or MilliB, if you wish | 10:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | MicroPlan9 | 10:29 |
| Dasajev | MicroC++ could be the next one :) | 10:29 |
| RST38h | Plan9 name has bad stigma | 10:29 |
| StsN800 | RST38h, i know this from popular oss.. its hard to get dedicated developers | 10:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | MicroH | 10:29 |
| RST38h | never really took off while being a very good project | 10:29 |
| RST38h | Sts: Mozilla, for example, is mostly developer by paid people | 10:30 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: Sure, linux kernel too. | 10:30 |
| RST38h | developed (shit, I am bad at typing lately :() | 10:30 |
| X-Fade | RST38h: But in the end it _is_ an open project. | 10:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, it's that damn muscle memory. ;) | 10:30 |
| johnx | open source != non-commercial | 10:31 |
| StsN800 | RST38h, and ive grown to realize corporate backing is a good thing, means more incentive and developer time | 10:31 |
| RST38h | So, maybe a combination of Nokia-paid people and hobbyists | 10:31 |
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| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, about git in Garage, at the very least, how difficult would it be to have git projects hosted on Garage, a link to a project's git repository on the project page and maybe a switch in settings enable git/svn? | 10:32 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Tekojo is looking into that, so it might be good to ask him. | 10:32 |
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| StsN800 | RST38h, and companies interested in improving maemo for their on-maemo projects' sake | 10:33 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: There currently is no open git-scm plugin for gforge, so that needs to be developed. | 10:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, OK. | 10:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't think we need to worry much about integration is the short term | 10:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | but just providing the option would be good. | 10:33 |
| X-Fade | Yeah, we could create repos manually. | 10:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | I doubt there's more than a dozen projects that would really be interested in it. | 10:34 |
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| RST38h | sts: no commercial maemo projects so far | 10:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not true | 10:35 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Rhapsody, Skype, "Map" | 10:36 |
| johnx | gizmo? boingo? | 10:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Possibly Gizmo | 10:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | and that note taking app | 10:36 |
| X-Fade | Fring. | 10:36 |
| qwerty12 | Maybe Garnet too | 10:36 |
| StsN800 | RST38h, my work does sortof, but its research | 10:36 |
| RST38h | Fring and Gizmo are free gateways to some universla service | 10:36 |
| StsN800 | with eventual commercial intent | 10:36 |
| johnx | they are projects by companies developed to increase revenue | 10:36 |
| johnx | how is that not commercial? | 10:37 |
| RST38h | Sts: what work? | 10:37 |
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| cityLights | hi all | 10:37 |
| RST38h | Garnet does not sell yet | 10:37 |
| StsN800 | RST38h, pervasive healthcare | 10:37 |
| johnx | hello cityLights | 10:37 |
| RST38h | johnx: companies can live without them | 10:37 |
| cityLights | I need some help | 10:37 |
| RST38h | Sts: ah | 10:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | StsN800 is making a robot doctor out of Beagle Boards. | 10:37 |
| johnx | RST38h, you're changing you definitions mid-discussion :) | 10:38 |
| StsN800 | indeed | 10:38 |
| StsN800 | bbl switching bus | 10:38 |
| cityLights | after I defined an email , my N800 started downloading all msgs, thus my root file system got full | 10:38 |
| RST38h | johnx: Ok, by commercial I mean something whose owner's business depends on | 10:38 |
| RST38h | johnx: You can't say that not having Gizmo on tablets will do anything to its owner | 10:38 |
| cityLights | now when I click the "programs" I get a gray menu | 10:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Bizarre definition | 10:39 |
| RST38h | just another nice-to-have client | 10:39 |
| cityLights | johnx , any idea how to fix it? | 10:39 |
| RST38h | General: Maybe nieeds to be clarified but I hope you see the meaning | 10:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | One Wal-Mart location certainly isn't vital to Wal-Mart's success, so you mean to say it isn't commercial? | 10:39 |
| RST38h | it is more like "one walmart location in the middle of nowhere" | 10:40 |
| johnx | cityLights, are you using IMAP or POP3? | 10:40 |
| cityLights | I think that the file in-charge of the programs on my device got messed up, which file is it? | 10:40 |
| cityLights | johnx, I fixed the problem with the email | 10:41 |
| cityLights | and I made space in my root file system | 10:41 |
| cityLights | I use diablo and boot of the SD | 10:41 |
| johnx | ah, ok, the menu is generated out of .desktop files in /usr/share/applications/hildon | 10:41 |
| johnx | also it might need to be regenerated ... somehow | 10:42 |
| cityLights | how may I recover it? | 10:42 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, did you ever manage to fix your menu or did you end up reflashing | 10:42 |
| cityLights | also, what files are backed up when using the provided backup program? is it just /home? | 10:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, yerga fixed it for me somehow | 10:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | Though I lost all my menu positions. | 10:42 |
| johnx | cityLights, yes, and some of your settings, such as repositories in /etc/ | 10:43 |
| qwerty12 | yergaGeneralAntilles, cp /etc/xdg/menus/applications.menu /home/user/.osso/menus/ ? | 10:43 |
| johnx | RST38h, so by commercial you mean "a commercial product important enough to make or break a company"? | 10:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Something like that | 10:43 |
| cityLights | may I ONLY copy the /bin /usr and so on except /home from the flash to my SD to fix it? | 10:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | cityLights, that's a really bad way to do it. | 10:44 |
| johnx | and it also won't fix anything | 10:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | Reduces battery life and makes things a lot more fragile. | 10:44 |
| cityLights | ok, so how should I fix .desktop file and get all my programs back? | 10:45 |
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| johnx | cityLights, qwerty12 gave you the fix. read his message | 10:45 |
| cityLights | oh , now I got it | 10:45 |
| cityLights | thanks | 10:45 |
| cityLights | min, let me see | 10:45 |
| johnx | there are sooo many other channels that need a qwerty12 | 10:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, time to code up a qwerty12 bot? | 10:47 |
| qwerty12 | hehe :) | 10:47 |
| cityLights | now for a totaly different question, how can I save a site certificate? | 10:47 |
| qwerty12 | Well, someone's coded qwerty12.exe :P | 10:47 |
| cityLights | I mean , when I connect to the uni wifi, I am redirected to 1.1.1.1 and there to https | 10:48 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:48 |
| cityLights | there I put my login and password and after that I can surf | 10:48 |
| cityLights | every time I am notifed that the certificate is missing and I click continue | 10:48 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles, Jaffa: It might be a good idea to create a concrete plan for introducing the new top-level categories. | 10:49 |
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| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, yeah, I was waiting on confirmation of the proposed list. ;) | 10:49 |
| X-Fade | Current wiki page talks about sub-cats in the same block, but I really think that is step 2 or later ;) | 10:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Definitely | 10:49 |
| X-Fade | Well, shall I blog about the list we have now and ask for last feedback? | 10:50 |
| X-Fade | I will mail Eero too, to ask what steps are needed for Packaging Policy change ;) | 10:51 |
| herwood | Good morning | 10:52 |
| herwood | any guys around who have used osso-addressbook library? | 10:53 |
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| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:Package_categories updated | 11:00 |
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| woglinde | morning | 11:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, after having slept on it, I can sort of see the point of Personal & Social. | 11:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | But I'm wondering if the i18n could be better. | 11:01 |
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| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Ok, looks better ;) | 11:02 |
| johnx | Yeah, that's the one problem I have with it too. In English at least it needs a whole sentence to properly describe | 11:02 |
| X-Fade | I'd rather go with one word i18n names. But that is pretty tough ;) | 11:04 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, as would I. | 11:05 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: I can see its point for contact management, but the example applications are too disparate for it to make sense. If we have "Personal & Social", it makes sense for the sports tracker type thing suggests it's too wide ranging. | 11:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.apple.com/iphone/appstore/ | 11:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ahaha | 11:06 |
| Jaffa | And I really think calendars fit into it a whole lot worse than they do into "Office". And, similarly, IRC clients, email clients etc. *should* be in "Network" | 11:06 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Check the # app in "Books" | 11:06 |
| Jaffa | The NIH syndrome of "well, it doesn't matter what other people do - even if they're better funded, more usable and have had proper studies and cash thrown at them" is a bit bogglesome | 11:07 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I guess at worst we'll see what happens with the current list and modify it in a few months if need be. | 11:09 |
| johnx | I can live with that I guess | 11:09 |
| johnx | it would be nice if we didn't change it except when people were being forced to repackage anyways (new binary architecture, new API, changed pcakge names, etc) | 11:10 |
| johnx | actually, if we get debtags at some point this becomes largely irrelevant | 11:11 |
| Jaffa | No-ones actually suggested *how* debtags will solve any of the problems, have they? | 11:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, magic bullets are magic. | 11:13 |
| X-Fade | Jaffa: Marius did. | 11:13 |
| X-Fade | You can add multple tags to decribe a package. So it will show up in multiple 'categories'. | 11:14 |
| Jaffa | Where? What tags are defined, for example? How on earth would the UI work? | 11:14 |
| X-Fade | Marius to use debtags _as_ categories it seems. | 11:14 |
| X-Fade | So not abusing the section part but using debtags to replace that. | 11:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Are debtags being used anywhere interesting currently? | 11:15 |
| X-Fade | So functionality would be the same. | 11:15 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: So you can have less precise categories and the same app show up in wherever the app author wants, to cater for all cases? Seems like it'd encourage lazier categorisation to me; and you still have the issue of which tags to define ;-) | 11:15 |
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| X-Fade | I still think about debtags as a good way to _describe_ a package. | 11:16 |
| johnx | but it solves the problem of apps that exist across categories | 11:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | What happens when Boingo puts its application in all categories? :P | 11:16 |
| Jaffa | Indeed. | 11:16 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, file a bug :D | 11:16 |
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| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: We would ban it in AM ? :) | 11:16 |
| Jaffa | johnx: No, it's a cop out for when you can't define the categories properly. | 11:16 |
| johnx | Jaffa, fine. where do you put a network-enabled dictionary? What about an educational game? | 11:17 |
| Jaffa | For example, a library doesn't buy 10 copies of a book and put it in different parts of the library so you can find it. | 11:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Or somebody figures "my solitaire game uses the network for high scores, so it should go in networking" | 11:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Dictionary goes in Utilities | 11:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Educational game goes in education. | 11:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Next set of hard-to-file packages? :P | 11:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, yeah, but a bookstore does. ;) | 11:18 |
| Jaffa | An application has one primary purpose. What GeneralAntilles said for your examples. | 11:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Though, admittedly, that's mostly sales tables and endcaps. ;) | 11:18 |
| Jaffa | A solitaire game using the network is still a game. | 11:18 |
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| johnx | GeneralAntilles, ok, so *you* know why they go there. but the point is to give the user as many ways to get to what they want as possible | 11:18 |
| Jaffa | johnx: So let's not have categories at all! | 11:19 |
| * GeneralAntilles so totally would go for filing bugs in multiple categories, though. | 11:19 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Unfortunately you can't have a single object exist in multiple places. :( | 11:19 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, wait, that's where we are now. :P | 11:19 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: oh, yes :-) | 11:20 |
| johnx | Jaffa, let's throw away alphabetical sorting too :P | 11:20 |
| johnx | for a nice example of a debtags interface, give this a shot: http://debtags.alioth.debian.org/cloud/ | 11:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Good lord | 11:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | "junior" | 11:21 |
| Jaffa | "works-with-format"? | 11:21 |
| X-Fade | johnx: Try to find firefox there ;) | 11:21 |
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| Jaffa | "x11" | 11:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Which has "TODO arcade games-gl meta special:not-applicable" | 11:21 |
| johnx | also a browse by category and browse by debtag would be nice :) | 11:21 |
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| johnx | X-Fade, hence "mutliple ways to search." if you know "I'm looking for firefox" why don't you type "firefox" into the search bar? | 11:22 |
| Jaffa | X-Fade: Yay! I found it: network > client > web > browser > firefox. | 11:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hrm | 11:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Actually, searching isn't a bad way to reduce the reliance on categories | 11:22 |
| X-Fade | johnx: Sure, but it goes to show that finding things this ways isn't easy either. No casual browsing here. | 11:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | OK, what about this, we have a search button in the toolbar, but it sucks UI-wise | 11:23 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Combined with at 'What's new' view. | 11:23 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: And Popular applications. | 11:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | What about taking a page out of MicroB's book and using the search button to toggle a search bar? | 11:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | That would act as a filter. | 11:23 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles++ | 11:23 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, yeah, I really want to see Downloads integration happen. | 11:24 |
| johnx | though this is quickly turning into design by committee | 11:24 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: That still doesn't solve: What cool applications are there for me to install. | 11:24 |
| Jaffa | GeneralAntilles: that's exactly what a searhc button is supposed to do in Maemo! | 11:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 11:24 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Search only works if you look for a specific app. | 11:24 |
| GeneralAntilles | Tagging is really more useful when combined with search rather than browsing. | 11:25 |
| * GeneralAntilles wonders about Tracker integration. | 11:25 | |
| Jaffa | And I get the feeling mvo's not got the time to put into developing a UI, so a complex UI which is wildly different from anything current will require more work by the community | 11:26 |
| * X-Fade would like to talk to the Nokia GUI guys too. | 11:27 | |
| X-Fade | Get them on board and discuss options. | 11:27 |
| GeneralAntilles | Quim seems to be working on that. | 11:27 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I wonder what the Tracker interface will end up looking like in Fremantle | 11:29 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: I guess more things will become clear in December. | 11:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | debtags could actually be a good way to power Tracker-based searches | 11:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | Type in "browser" and Minefield, Fennec, MicroB, Tear and Epiphany pop up. | 11:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | I guess stuff like emelfm2, too. | 11:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, I'm hoping the unified direction will be from Nokia. | 11:32 |
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| GeneralAntilles | johnx, we're just playing around with different ideas, they can pick up and integrate the good ones. | 11:32 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, why the whole categories thing, when you can browse around in a tag cloud? :P | 11:35 |
| Jaffa | Yes, if there was a single tracker interface that could be interesting | 11:35 |
| Stskeeps | and search in it too | 11:35 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Browsing in tag clouds sucks. | 11:47 |
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| johnx | and there you have it! the definitive answer from GeneralAntilles. :P | 11:48 |
| Stskeeps | curious tablet im sitting here with.. it's not touch-screen but pen-touch screen | 11:49 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, like the Wacom tablets? | 11:49 |
| johnx | sounds right. a lot of tablets are still that way | 11:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, well, look at the debtag web interface you linked. . . . | 11:49 |
| johnx | I did. It's very beta admittedly | 11:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's godawful | 11:50 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: never actually tried a wacom tablet, but it's a xp machine where it's only touchable with the pen from the system | 11:50 |
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| johnx | this would be a lot easier to do with a smaller amount of apps and better tags | 11:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | That said, those sort of tags would be QUITE useful combined with a search bar | 11:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anybody got any cool mockups for the main view I could look at? | 11:50 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, yup, active digitizer. it's the same tech as the wacom tablets | 11:51 |
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| johnx | does apple hold patents on Next-style column-based file manager? is that why no one uses it? | 11:52 |
| * GeneralAntilles is picturing a main view with a global search box and buttons for "New", "Popular" and maybe "Stars" | 11:52 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Or "Best rated" | 11:52 |
| johnx | how about four buttons then: new, popular, stars and browse | 11:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | What about updates and installed applications? | 11:53 |
| johnx | I don't mind the current top-level screen | 11:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, but we need to add more buttons for more features | 11:55 |
| X-Fade | And make it look less ugly ;) Although that might be fixed by the theme etc. | 11:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Seems to me like the $TABLET_NAME and "Web catalog" labels are somewhat superfluous. | 11:57 |
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| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Especially since it says Nokia N800 on my N810, because I always forwarded my backups ;) | 11:57 |
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| qwerty12 | w00t, http://repository.maemo.org going at world record breaking speeds again... | 12:01 |
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| sampo_ | it sure is | 12:02 |
| sampo_ | usually it is working fast and maemo.org website is laggign | 12:03 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Actually, hrm. | 12:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | Other than the "refresh repositories" button, is there any reason to have the toolbar on the main view? | 12:05 |
| qwerty12 | That's a good point actually, it could be removed. mvo makes the repository refresh button on the main view both disabled in red pill & blue pill | 12:06 |
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| lardman | morning | 12:33 |
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| melmoth | hola | 12:35 |
| melmoth | lardman: did you get the treeview tutorial url ? | 12:35 |
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| lardman | melmoth: yes thanks, nice tutorial | 12:38 |
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| lardman | melmoth: I've "ported" a later version of metromap, is very pretty and seems to work ok | 12:39 |
| lardman | not sure where the timing data comes from though | 12:39 |
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| GeneralAntilles | http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/main-view-mockup.png http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/tag-search-mockup.png | 12:41 |
| lardman | find bar is nice | 12:42 |
| lardman | does the second one differ from the standard? | 12:42 |
| lardman | I'd also like to see extra columns for popularity, etc. in there | 12:42 |
| lardman | and age too | 12:42 |
| lardman | ah, it has descriptions does it, does normal ham do that? | 12:43 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Age? | 12:43 |
| lardman | how old the app is | 12:43 |
| lardman | when it was submitted | 12:43 |
| X-Fade | lardman: from first release or that version? | 12:43 |
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| lardman | that version | 12:43 |
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| lardman | not very important, just that we know "What's New" on the previous page | 12:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, the find is normally a dialog | 12:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | and the search kinda sucks | 12:44 |
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| lardman | GeneralAntilles: yep, the bar is nicer | 12:44 |
| X-Fade | lardman: That is not known from the repository. Although we detect it in 'fresh' on /downloads/ | 12:44 |
| lardman | X-Fade: ok, no worries | 12:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | This search I'd like to see tied to Tracker and debtags. | 12:45 |
| X-Fade | lardman: Well, if we are going to fetch meta-data then it can be added of course ;) | 12:45 |
| lardman | Might be worth sticking a star by "Fresh" applications though, to highlight them? | 12:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, can you ponder a bit on what sort of hooks would be good for Downloads integration? | 12:45 |
| lardman | X-Fade: yeah, but do you know the age of everything, or just the latest X new apps | 12:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | and how we want h-a-m to communicate with maemo.org | 12:45 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: I guess just an xml feed orso? | 12:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, that's kinda what I was thinking. | 12:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | I imagine mvo will have an opinion, too. | 12:46 |
| X-Fade | That should not be a problem. | 12:46 |
| X-Fade | We can fetch that from maemo.org and cache it in the repo when a package gets uploaded. | 12:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | In all honesty, I'd really like to see an appstore approach | 12:46 |
| GeneralAntilles | With the Application Manager being the preferred portal to sotfware over the web interface. | 12:47 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: if you search from the front page, what does it look at? Installed, not-yet-installed, upgrades? All? | 12:47 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: How about commenting an application? | 12:47 |
| lardman | yes, seeing comments would be good too | 12:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | X-Fade, I wonder if we could add a "application page" like the appstore has | 12:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not entirely unlike the info dialog we have now, but a real page | 12:48 |
| lardman | not html ;) | 12:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | No, of course not. ;) | 12:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | Commenting could be done through that after you add your maemo.org credentials to h-a-m | 12:49 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: Sure, all data is available. It is just a matter of displaying and interfacing? | 12:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | Right | 12:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, by default, I'd say all installable applications should be searched. | 12:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | (from the front page) | 12:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/front page/main view? | 12:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/?/\// :P | 12:50 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: I'd say all should be searched, and separated in the listview | 12:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hrm | 12:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Tree view, maybe? | 12:51 |
| X-Fade | Hmm Mauku just arrived in extras-devel ;) | 12:51 |
| lardman | yeah, or just a dividing line | 12:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | > Installed applications (4) | 12:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | > Installable applications (12) | 12:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | v Updates (1) | 12:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mauku | 12:51 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: numbers would be nice appearing on the keys in the main view | 12:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Personally, though, I'd never really be interested in searching updates. | 12:52 |
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| GeneralAntilles | What's new (22) | 12:52 |
| X-Fade | I think that update should just show up like ssu. | 12:52 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: no, but if you have a search option without specifying the target, you ought to search everything | 12:52 |
| X-Fade | New applications are more interesting. | 12:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, I'm thinking the search should act like a filter if you're in one of the package views. | 12:53 |
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| lardman | yes, if you're in one of the package views then just search that | 12:53 |
| cityLights | hi, thanks , issue is solved :-) | 12:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | So, if you search for "browser" when viewing the "Network" category, it would only filter that list. | 12:53 |
| lardman | +1 | 12:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's something that really irritates me about the Finder | 12:54 |
| cityLights | any idea how to mark a url safe for HTTPS even when cert is not good? | 12:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | They have a search bar on each window, but it does a global search instead of a search of the window's contents. | 12:54 |
| lardman | Can we add an extra column so we can multi-select | 12:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | N810 owners, can you use the keyboard to jump to an item in application menus? | 12:55 |
| lardman | no | 12:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, of checkboxes? | 12:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somebody should file an enhancement request about that. | 12:56 |
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| lardman | GeneralAntilles: yes, something like that, but the user shouldn't need to check them themselves | 12:56 |
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| lardman | hard with your thumb, unless it's very pointy | 12:57 |
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| GeneralAntilles | How would they be checked, then? | 12:57 |
| cityLights | I get this messege: This site has sent an untrusted certificate * certificate is not signed by a trusted authority | 12:57 |
| lardman | tap another button which says mark for installation? | 12:57 |
| cityLights | click continue and can put in my uni password | 12:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maybe | 12:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | Should be discussed | 12:57 |
| GeneralAntilles | at the very least, you should be able to select like the file mananger | 12:58 |
| cityLights | great | 12:58 |
| cityLights | forgot that | 12:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | and maybe there should be an "install all" button for search results. | 12:58 |
| cityLights | now: where is it updated? | 12:58 |
| cityLights | which file? | 12:58 |
| lardman | well if the listview were updated differently it might not matter too much, though it is annoying having to wait between selections to install another app | 12:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yeah. :\ | 12:58 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: no, not an install all | 12:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | qwerty12's current build seems to render a bit faster. | 12:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, so, instead, you'd have to mark each item for installation? | 12:59 |
| lardman | the list shouldn;t be destroyed, it should just have rows removed | 12:59 |
| lardman | yes | 12:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd say that's not an unreasonable thing to put on the toolbar in a search result | 12:59 |
| lardman | very unlikely you'd want that from a search though | 13:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Fair enough | 13:00 |
| lardman | if I search for "patience", I'd chose one not all of them to install | 13:00 |
| cityLights | ok, bye for no | 13:00 |
| cityLights | now | 13:00 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: when you highlight an app name, could add a button to the row "Mark for Installation", then use the "Install" button on the bottom to install all | 13:01 |
| lardman | something like that | 13:02 |
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| ciro | anyone know why shuold be a problem to use the maemo.org logo inside a theme? | 13:06 |
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| GeneralAntilles | It wouldn't be. | 13:06 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just as long as you remember not to chop off the .org | 13:06 |
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| lardman | ~lart copy&paste in FF3 | 13:07 |
| * infobot squeezes copy&paste in FF3 till copy&paste in FF3 turns blue like papa smurf | 13:07 | |
| ciro | oh, ok, just because I received a strange quim gil message about | 13:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | ciro, what theme, exactly? | 13:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Link? | 13:08 |
| ciro | https://garage.maemo.org/projects/theme3dmania/ | 13:08 |
| ciro | nothing serious: I just want be sure to not piss anyone off :) | 13:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | What did Quim say, anyway? | 13:09 |
| X-Fade | ciro: Gilquim 0.68 ? :) | 13:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 13:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | That could explain it. | 13:10 |
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| ciro | X: well, I dont want make the things too serious | 13:10 |
| ciro | GeneralAntilles: yes, I understand the 'problem' about the old version | 13:11 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I mean, I would be a little bothered if you used my name for a theme. | 13:11 |
| ciro | but : If you *really* need to use that logo (and you should consider this first) | 13:11 |
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| ciro | yes, GeneralAntilles: I know that, but I created that released after the message | 13:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah | 13:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | https://garage.maemo.org/frs/download.php/4730/3dmania065.png | 13:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, I see the issue. | 13:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't use an old logo. ;) | 13:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | The logo in the Gilquim version is perfect. | 13:13 |
| ciro | well, I dont like subtle messages :) and that 'if you really' without any further expalantion turned me a bit off | 13:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | I wouldn't take it to heart. | 13:14 |
| ciro | si GeneralAntilles: sorry if I didnt explain the all situation before | 13:14 |
| lardman | I just watched an AppStore demo, scarely easy to (pay for and) install an app | 13:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | The guys who bought "I am Rich" would probably agree with you. | 13:15 |
| qwerty12 | hehe | 13:15 |
| qwerty12 | They should have bought a maemo and installed i-am-free | 13:16 |
| qwerty12 | s/maemo/tablet | 13:16 |
| lardman | really though, two clicks and you've paid; wouldn't want any children to play games on the thing and accidentally spend all your money | 13:16 |
| qwerty12 | I can't understand though, why would you store your credit card details anyway? | 13:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, you can turn off one-click. | 13:17 |
| lardman | qwerty12: you have to | 13:17 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: ah, ok | 13:17 |
| johnx | ah, the need for people to be protected from themselves :) | 13:17 |
| ciro | lardman: apple made a great job to teach to the iphoners to be customers | 13:17 |
| qwerty12 | Ok, that's good :) | 13:17 |
| lardman | johnx: well not myself, some other bugger who might start randomly tapping | 13:18 |
| lardman | speaking of CC, I must go pay mine, bbiab | 13:18 |
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| qwerty12 | ~curse ebook people who put unix books as pdf | 13:45 |
| infobot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, ebook people who put unix books as pdf ! | 13:46 |
| qwerty12 | *chm | 13:46 |
| melmoth | what's the problem with pdf ebook ? | 13:46 |
| qwerty12 | I made a mistake, pdf ebooks are good :). chm ones are bad :) | 13:47 |
| melmoth | :) | 13:48 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: may I add some stuff to your page? http://wiki.maemo.org/User:GeneralAntilles/Improving_the_Application_manager | 13:49 |
| melmoth | GRumble...i think i have a memory leak, that only occurs on the tablet (i have no cam nor do i know how to emulate the "device change state" events, wich seems to be related to the leak i experience).... | 13:49 |
| melmoth | no valgrind for arm, no way to reproduce it on scratchbox...life is a bitch. | 13:50 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, sure. | 13:51 |
| lardman | I'll stick some bits in in italic, take a look at them and see if they're in the right places | 13:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | I can just do a diff | 13:52 |
| lardman | ok | 13:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hrm | 13:52 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't think Quim's goal for November 10th really works. | 13:52 |
| X-Fade | I think it does. As a first plan at least? | 13:53 |
| lardman | well at least it will get people to put ideas together, everyone needs a deadline | 13:53 |
| Stskeeps | what's the nov 10 deadline? meeting or? :P | 13:53 |
| X-Fade | I can dream up more work in 5 minutes than can be done in 10 years ;) | 13:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | I mean, I can put a bunch of things I'd like to see on, but without an idea of what the UI paradigms for Fremantle will be, they may not be very useful. | 13:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/on/on that page/ | 13:54 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: I mean, I can put a bunch of things I'd like to see on that page, but without an idea of what the UI paradigms for Fremantle will be, they may not be very useful. | 13:54 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: I think no matter what the ui will look like, we can still sketch our ideas? | 13:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, do you want to move that page to Task:Improving_the_Application_Manager? | 13:55 |
| lardman | yeah, sounds like a plan | 13:56 |
| lardman | I've just added a couple of notes, take a look | 13:56 |
| qwerty12 | melmoth: "device change state events"? | 13:59 |
| melmoth | yep, you know, when the screen is blanked, or when it goes to shutdown | 14:02 |
| qwerty12 | ah :/ | 14:02 |
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| melmoth | i have this daemon wich takes picture regularly, and save gps info in a linked list, and send all of that to a remote xmlrpc server when available. | 14:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Replied to Quim. | 14:04 |
| melmoth | The program meomry usage seems constant (after the first gstreamer pipe has been created), except some times...the vzs appearing in top increase.. | 14:04 |
| melmoth | likz 24 bits.. It only happens "sometimes" that s the problem | 14:04 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lardman, re: the scrollbars, that's part of the issue with not knowing the Fremantle UI paradigms. | 14:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | They may not even have scrollbars | 14:04 |
| melmoth | hmm, may be, 24 bytes, or whatever it is that is used to measure vsz | 14:04 |
| RST38h | melmoth: Hint: don't use linked list, use dynamic array | 14:06 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: yes, but if we put down ideas, hopefully some Nokians, when they take a look, will say what can/can't/is already done | 14:07 |
| melmoth | i think the list is ok (i can emulate its usage on scracbox, valgrind did not mention anything..well, anything i saw :-) ) | 14:07 |
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| melmoth | Plus it s a glib GSSList, it there to be used. | 14:07 |
| RST38h | melmoth: it does not have to leak, just have to grow large | 14:07 |
| RST38h | melmoth: but, do you ever use file open dialog in that program of yours? | 14:08 |
| melmoth | no, its a daemon. | 14:08 |
| melmoth | no graphical output at all. only some debug in a text file | 14:08 |
| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: I have mailed the Packaging Policy guys to ask them if they want to help us to get the categories updated in the policy. | 14:09 |
| RST38h | ok | 14:10 |
| RST38h | melmoth: give me a moment | 14:10 |
| lardman | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24654, General, do you want to create a page for that? | 14:11 |
| * GeneralAntilles could care less about PIM. | 14:12 | |
| GeneralAntilles | I nominate somebody who cares. :P | 14:12 |
| RST38h | melmoth: try cat /proc/<prorcesid>/status | 14:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'll clear it up for you after it's done, though. | 14:12 |
| RST38h | melmoth: see if it reports anything useful | 14:13 |
| RST38h | melmoth: people say you can also track detailed memory usage with valgrind | 14:14 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: could you create a page for those who care please | 14:14 |
| melmoth | yep, but valgrind does not work on arm :-( | 14:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, why me? | 14:15 |
| lardman | don't worry, I've worked out how to create one now | 14:15 |
| lardman | ;) | 14:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Haha | 14:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Too easy, right? ;) | 14:16 |
| * lardman doesn't deal with docs anymore | 14:16 | |
| lardman | speaking of which, can I put up an html page somehow, I don't really fancy moving my DSP HowTo into the wiki, sounds painful | 14:16 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Um | 14:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, most HTML elements work | 14:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Link to the howto? | 14:17 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: yeah, I thought it would be better onsite | 14:18 |
| lardman | is this suitable? http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:PIM | 14:18 |
| melmoth | RST38h: i will try to find me a webcam, and see if i can use it in scratchbox (wich happen to be a xen vm..i may need some time to make this work :) ). Then i will need to 'emulate' the screen blanking event if i cannot reproduce it as it is | 14:18 |
| lardman | GeneralAntilles: I'll have to have a go and see what mess I can produce | 14:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, seems fine | 14:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | can always be moved later | 14:18 |
| lardman | true | 14:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Maybe Task:Personal_Information_Manager_for_Maemo | 14:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | or in Maemo | 14:19 |
| lcuk | does the app manager parse apt-cache's output to build its list, or is there an internal binary format somewhere? | 14:19 |
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| lardman | hmm, hence why I shouldn't be creating pages ;) | 14:19 |
| lcuk | go go web designer lardman! | 14:19 |
| RST38h | Read: http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/30/aigos-p8860-mid-reviewed-sweet-but-potentially-irrelevant/ and replace "Aigo" with "Nokia" | 14:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, well, that's why I didn't want to create it, either. | 14:20 |
| RST38h | melmoth: Why? Can't you use valgrind on the device? | 14:20 |
| RST38h | Using anything in the scratchbox is unreliable | 14:20 |
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| * lcuk wishes he could finish a thought, bbl | 14:22 | |
| melmoth | valgrind does not support arm | 14:24 |
| RST38h | oh | 14:28 |
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| melmoth | mouip | 14:31 |
| melmoth | oups | 14:32 |
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| GeneralAntilles | lol | 14:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's awesome | 14:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | System clock issues on the server for the Windows flasher caused the issue. | 14:41 |
| johnx | ahaha...win | 14:44 |
| aquatix | RST38h: i've heard from various people that if the Nokia MID's have a decent default PIM, they would buy it | 14:44 |
| mgedmin | other say the same thing about GSM | 14:45 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, it's been happening for the last couple DST changes though, right? | 14:45 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't remember | 14:48 |
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| johnx | I was poking at similar threads on ITT with very interesting dates | 14:49 |
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| RST38h | aquatix: It does not mean those people will actually buy it | 15:01 |
| RST38h | aquatix: My experience shows that "If would buy if..." people never buy. | 15:02 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, agreed, my boss tells me tales of similar thingsfrom wayback when, runninghome to add features to his app based on "i would buy it if.." only to be told the next day ummm maybe not. | 15:23 |
| lcuk | people are fickle | 15:23 |
| lcuk | if something appeals there and then they will buy | 15:24 |
| glass | feeling matters a lot | 15:24 |
| glass | if it's in 'might buy it if..' it's just reasoning around the feeling of not buying | 15:24 |
| lcuk | yes | 15:25 |
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| GAN800 | Specific cases aside, PIM will geberally increase sales. | 15:30 |
| GAN800 | s/geb/gen/ | 15:31 |
| infobot | GAN800 meant: Specific cases aside, PIM will generally increase sales. | 15:31 |
| johnx | is their a counter group like the cell phone one? "I won't buy it if it has PIM"? | 15:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not the same sort of issue. | 15:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | Cellular shit has lots of baggage | 15:32 |
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| GeneralAntilles | PIM doesn't involve government regulation | 15:32 |
| johnx | I know. I was on your side with that, remember? :P | 15:32 |
| glass | people who counter with "i wont buy it because it does x too" will buy it anyways(cameraphones as prime example) | 15:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd prefer not to have a camera on my phone, honestly. | 15:33 |
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| GeneralAntilles | But as not having one really doesn't decrease size or cost these days. . . . | 15:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | But it's a weak example, since you pretty much can't buy a decent phone without a camera anymore. | 15:33 |
| RST38h | lcuk: Basically, it makes sense to primarily listen to people who already bought your app | 15:34 |
| glass | e50 was offered without camera | 15:34 |
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| lcuk | the only crowd who want reduced features are the older generation who prefer simple to the point functionality, and gnome users who ummm just are | 15:34 |
| RST38h | lcuk: The rest may have their say of course, but not much of importance | 15:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | glass, OK, you have _one_ decent phone without a camera. ;) | 15:34 |
| glass | GeneralAntilles: it wasnt very popular model | 15:34 |
| RST38h | e61 was offered without a camera as well | 15:35 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, theres actually a proper phone with simple clear easy readable screen and i believe no camera | 15:35 |
| glass | e61i added camera | 15:35 |
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| lcuk | and no its not just an old style one | 15:35 |
| glass | it was needed | 15:35 |
| lcuk | RST38h, agree 100% | 15:35 |
| glass | apparently | 15:35 |
| glass | most buyers want it.. | 15:35 |
| * RST38h would prefer A2DP support | 15:35 | |
| glass | if they've given the choise and they cost the same | 15:35 |
| lcuk | no camera models are required in certain industries | 15:35 |
| glass | lcuk: disabling is easier usually then.. like in military | 15:36 |
| glass | lcuk: and it's pretty much watered down nowadays | 15:36 |
| glass | lcuk: that argument was used a lot when cameraphones were coming | 15:36 |
| lcuk | no, how does a guard know if its disabled or not - many places simply say "no camera phones" | 15:36 |
| glass | lcuk: but you hear it seldom nowadays.. only from military guys | 15:36 |
| glass | lcuk: they wouldn't know a smugled camera either | 15:37 |
| glass | lcuk: knifing the lens/thing is what some people have done | 15:37 |
| lcuk | no, but if you have rules and they are broken you can be disciplined | 15:37 |
| glass | yes, at which point it's checked if it can shoot pics or not | 15:38 |
| * GeneralAntilles disciplines lcuk for breaking the "no lcuk" rule. | 15:38 | |
| glass | but point being, everyone has a cameraphone by default know | 15:38 |
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| glass | the really cheap end phone models have intentionally limited features now | 15:39 |
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| glass | like limiting phonebook to say 300 or so.. as if it didn't have more memory and running an arm cpu like the rest | 15:39 |
| johnx | I bet the n800 would get past most "no camera" checkpoints :) | 15:40 |
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| glass | high end secrity places should limit things like usb modems and computers anyways | 15:41 |
| lcuk | johnx :D thats because its got a custom snow generation device | 15:42 |
| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, grrrrr | 15:42 |
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| johnx | Stskeeps, have you tried compiling the fremantle gtk+ and hildon yet? | 15:46 |
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| nemo | GeneralAntilles: hey. | 15:58 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Hey, nemo, the bookmarklet works nicely. | 16:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Thanks! :D | 16:00 |
| nemo | whew | 16:01 |
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| cowbellemoo | Hi all. I'm awaiting a n810's arrival in the holidays and was wondering...I know it can mount a samba share over wifi, but what is the video thoroughput like? Do standard ntsc-resolution videos stream fine from a samba server? | 16:13 |
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| johnx | it's not the streaming, it's the on-device playback that's the problem | 16:15 |
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| ||cw | I thought th 810 could handle 720x480.... | 16:16 |
| mgedmin | at 5 seconds per frame, maybe | 16:17 |
| cowbellemoo | Okay. I heard the chipset wasn't the best it could be because of a license dispute (or something) | 16:17 |
| cowbellemoo | Are videos watchable? | 16:17 |
| mgedmin | yes | 16:17 |
| mgedmin | if you transcode them to a lower resolution/framerate | 16:17 |
| mgedmin | google for tablet-encode | 16:18 |
| cowbellemoo | how low? :( | 16:18 |
| mgedmin | http://mediautils.garage.maemo.org/tablet-encode.html | 16:18 |
| johnx | 400x240 is optimal, up to 640x272 can be ok | 16:18 |
| ||cw | I know hte 770 can't handle it, but I thought the 800 and 810 where much better | 16:18 |
| johnx | it's not a license dispute, it's a design flaw in the bus to the LCD | 16:18 |
| mgedmin | some videos look rather good (e.g. the one that nokia ships with the device) | 16:18 |
| johnx | the license dispute is over drivers for the 3D chipset | 16:18 |
| johnx | ||cw, LCD bus bandwidth limitations on the n8x0 hardware | 16:19 |
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| cowbellemoo | Oh. Heh. | 16:19 |
| cowbellemoo | That's not too bad a detail/performance hit | 16:20 |
| johnx | it actually makes the video smaller for storing on an SD card *and* it still looks really impressive | 16:21 |
| johnx | 400x240 on a ~4" screen is still a higher DPI than fullscreen video on the monitor you're looking at right now | 16:21 |
| cowbellemoo | Yeah. I could deal with the video on the old ipod video, so 400x240 is probably a step up | 16:21 |
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| johnx | I've had good results with some at 640x272 but that's close to the limit I think | 16:22 |
| cowbellemoo | Thanks, by the way. :) | 16:22 |
| AStorm | johnx, x320 is ok | 16:22 |
| johnx | you might want to look at some custom streaming server to run on your PC | 16:22 |
| AStorm | 640x320, for example | 16:22 |
| johnx | cowbellemoo, do you run linux, mac or windows? | 16:22 |
| johnx | AStorm, good to know :D | 16:23 |
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| AStorm | I checked with movies | 16:23 |
| AStorm | even 662x332was ok | 16:23 |
| cowbellemoo | I've got a ubuntu server sharing all my media, so some sort of on-demand transcoding would be a nice weekend project | 16:23 |
| AStorm | for 30 FPS | 16:23 |
| AStorm | that was of course with omapfb, so YMMV with default X calls | 16:24 |
| yacoob | uncrowded wifi should give ~2MBps of bandwidth, question is whether tablet is able to handle that :) | 16:24 |
| johnx | cowbellemoo, "knots" and "mediaserv" would be good to look at :) | 16:25 |
| AStorm | yacoob, almost | 16:26 |
| AStorm | I managed 10 Mbps | 16:26 |
| AStorm | which is about 1.3MB/s | 16:26 |
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| cowbellemoo | I've made it to the mediaserv page, but 'knots' is impossible to google | 16:29 |
| cowbellemoo | maybe it's on sourceforge? | 16:29 |
| AStorm | try "knots media server" or sth? | 16:29 |
| johnx | add "maemo" to any search you're doing for the nokia tablets :) | 16:30 |
| AStorm | yup | 16:30 |
| AStorm | we need Xv to be as fast as omapfb | 16:31 |
| X-Fade | My google doesn't need that anymore ;) It knows too much about me, it seems... | 16:31 |
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| AStorm | X-Fade, hahna | 16:31 |
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| AStorm | use scroogle.org | 16:31 |
| AStorm | for an unbiased/less biased view | 16:31 |
| cowbellemoo | I see it now. Thought that knots was another server package. | 16:32 |
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| johnx | it's both | 16:33 |
| cowbellemoo | Oh, or both client/server. | 16:33 |
| cowbellemoo | hehe | 16:33 |
| cowbellemoo | well, thanks again | 16:33 |
| johnx | sure :) | 16:33 |
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| penguinbait | lcuk? | 16:34 |
| camel_liu | I try 'sudo apt-get -o Acquire::http::Proxy=http://xxxx.xxx.xx:yyyy/ update' in Xterm, and it asks for password? What is it? | 16:35 |
| AStorm | camel_liu, because it wants root? | 16:35 |
| AStorm | so it asks for root pass | 16:35 |
| camel_liu | rootme? | 16:35 |
| AStorm | check /etc/sudoers | 16:35 |
| AStorm | rootsh | 16:36 |
| AStorm | or just root | 16:36 |
| AStorm | have to install it first | 16:36 |
| camel_liu | let me try | 16:36 |
| camel_liu | have to install waht? | 16:36 |
| camel_liu | what? | 16:36 |
| camel_liu | Neither rootsh nor root :( | 16:37 |
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| camel_liu | AStorm, both rootsh and root are not right. What do I have to install first? | 16:39 |
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| johnx | camel_liu, is this in scratchbox or on the n8x0? | 16:39 |
| AStorm | package is called rootsh | 16:39 |
| AStorm | :) | 16:39 |
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| AStorm | uhm, in sbox he could just edit sudoers file | 16:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~rootsh | 16:40 |
| infobot | from memory, rootsh is an easy way to get root and it's found here: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/rootsh/ | 16:40 |
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| camel_liu | I'm trying, thanks | 16:43 |
| AStorm | GeneralAntilles, shouldn't it be in extras? | 16:46 |
| camel_liu | I installed rootsh.;-) | 16:47 |
| GeneralAntilles | it is. . . . | 16:47 |
| camel_liu | To run apt-get, I have to run 'sudo gainroot && rootsh apt-get update' ? | 16:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | no. | 16:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | rootsh | 16:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | apt-get | 16:48 |
| lopz | hola | 16:48 |
| woglinde | if sudo gainroot works you do not need rootsh | 16:48 |
| AStorm | yup | 16:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | woglinde, it's not about "works" | 16:49 |
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| AStorm | also, edit sudoers file if you like sudo so much | 16:49 |
| GeneralAntilles | rootsh gives you user's shell's history. anyway. | 16:49 |
| woglinde | hm? | 16:50 |
| woglinde | other history then busybox ash history? | 16:50 |
| camel_liu | who to edit sudoers file? | 16:50 |
| camel_liu | how | 16:50 |
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| AStorm | camel_liu, e.g. vim /etc/sudoers | 16:50 |
| AStorm | uhm, vi not vim | 16:51 |
| johnx | camel_liu, you're using scratchbox, correct? | 16:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | AStorm, visudo | 16:51 |
| camel_liu | does busybox have nano? | 16:51 |
| AStorm | you might want some other editor, like nano (in extras afaik) | 16:51 |
| GeneralAntilles | That wont let you reboot-loop your system. | 16:51 |
| AStorm | GeneralAntilles, it sucks :P | 16:51 |
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| timeless | gan? | 16:52 |
| timeless | what happened? | 16:52 |
| timeless | why is microb now being managed in the open? | 16:53 |
| AStorm | yay | 16:53 |
| X-Fade | timeless: Because it needs to ;) | 16:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless, hehe, sorry, want some background on that? ;) | 16:53 |
| timeless | um, yes? | 16:53 |
| timeless | not a very nice \"welcome back from your summer vacation" | 16:53 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't worry, it's nothing urgent. | 16:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Read this thread: http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2008-October/035437.html | 16:54 |
| timeless | is there a bug on the application manager thing? | 16:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | and welcome back. :) | 16:54 |
| timeless | because as it stands... | 16:54 |
| timeless | while i'm asking stupid questions | 16:54 |
| timeless | where does a web browser fit in http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail/maemo-developers/2008-October/035437.html ? | 16:54 |
| X-Fade | timeless: That discussion grew quite a bit. | 16:55 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless, network. | 16:55 |
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| camel_liu | sudoers file is blank. Add what? What is the straight way to run apt-get in Xterm? | 16:55 |
| timeless | do you really expect humans to look for them there? | 16:55 |
| AStorm | camel_liu, /etc/sudoers? shouldn't be | 16:56 |
| woglinde | I use r&d mode and sudo gainroot | 16:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | The i18n is probably going to be "Internet & Network" | 16:56 |
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| timeless | sorry, i'm a human, i would not look for a browser or a mail client in netowkrking | 16:56 |
| johnx | camel_liu, just install rootsh, let me get you a link, wait a second. | 16:56 |
| mgedmin | GeneralAntilles: has anyone looked into freedesktop.org's categories? | 16:56 |
| camel_liu | i installed it | 16:56 |
| GeneralAntilles | mgedmin, that's what those are based on. | 16:56 |
| AStorm | camel_liu, read sudo documentation | 16:56 |
| camel_liu | johnx, what's next? | 16:56 |
| johnx | camel_liu, type "root" | 16:57 |
| mgedmin | ah, for some reason I thought fd.o had an "Internet" category rather than Networking | 16:57 |
| AStorm | GeneralAntilles, Internet is separate there | 16:57 |
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| woglinde | re lardman | 16:57 |
| AStorm | it does | 16:57 |
| camel_liu | AStorm, where's sudo documentation? | 16:57 |
| AStorm | separate Internet and separate Networking | 16:57 |
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| GeneralAntilles | AStorm, how do you figure? http://standards.freedesktop.org/menu-spec/latest/apa.html | 16:58 |
| AStorm | camel_liu, in the netwok | 16:58 |
| AStorm | *network | 16:58 |
| * melmoth thinks sudoers is the worst man page ever | 16:58 | |
| mgedmin | camel_liu: e.g. http://manpages.ubuntu.com/manpages/hardy/man5/sudoers.html | 16:58 |
| * timeless wonders how to correctly ask if FOO-app is in $PATH | 16:58 | |
| johnx | which FOO-app | 16:59 |
| AStorm | GeneralAntilles, oh, so KDE fails to conform | 16:59 |
| mgedmin | camel_liu: sudoers is a critical system file; if you get it wrong, your tablet may not boot | 16:59 |
| AStorm | :> | 16:59 |
| mgedmin | are you *sure* you want to edit it? | 16:59 |
| AStorm | mgedmin, not anymore | 16:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just, fyi, guys, sudser is in Extras. | 16:59 |
| timeless | sudser? | 16:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | and does exactly what you're trying to do without having to mess around with sudoers | 16:59 |
| johnx | camel_liu, don't edit sudoers, You installed rootsh so that's good enough. Just type "root" then use apt-get normally | 16:59 |
| AStorm | camel_liu, ah, you failed to become root before editing | 17:00 |
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| AStorm | yes, install rootsh and be happy | 17:00 |
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| camel_liu | johnx, I do as you said. And it is working. :) Thanks. | 17:01 |
| johnx | camel_liu, sounds good :) | 17:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | timeless, it adds user to sudoers | 17:01 |
| camel_liu | Yes. I always account '302 Found' in my home. So I have to do that. | 17:02 |
| johnx | camel_liu, have you gotten the 302 error again today? | 17:02 |
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| camel_liu | Always, maybe every-times. | 17:03 |
| camel_liu | Both my scratchbox and my N800. | 17:04 |
| johnx | camel_liu, could you add a comment to this bug? https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3823 | 17:04 |
| camel_liu | I have to use http proxy. | 17:04 |
| camel_liu | ok. I'll try. | 17:04 |
| lcuk | penguinbait, you called? | 17:04 |
| johnx | camel_liu, thanks. hopefully nokia will be able to get this fixed. | 17:05 |
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| lcuk | damn penguinbait pm me if you need me - ill pick up when i can | 17:06 |
| lcuk | bbl | 17:06 |
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| penguinbait | lcuk, ? | 17:09 |
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| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: What was that Nokia provided package again that used user/system? | 17:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | osv | 17:21 |
| camel_liu | johnx, How can I submit my comment? Do I need a new account? | 17:21 |
| X-Fade | Ah yeah, duh ;) | 17:21 |
| johnx | camel_liu, yes. you need to make an account. if you have problems I can submit a comment for you | 17:21 |
| camel_liu | ok | 17:22 |
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| X-Fade | GeneralAntilles: It seems that regarding the policy, Marius is our man too ;) | 17:25 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, good to know. | 17:25 |
| X-Fade | I asked the guys that gave me the policy when it was not public yet. And they pointed to Marius. | 17:26 |
| X-Fade | So I guess that gives us an opportunity to discuss it on the list. | 17:26 |
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| GeneralAntilles | itT sure loves to moan about not having PIM | 17:29 |
| GeneralAntilles | But when given the opportunity to be proactive about it they also seem to love to moan about that, too. | 17:30 |
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| derf | Bitching on the internet?! That's unpossuble. | 17:30 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, advice on barn painting vs painting a barn :) | 17:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hehe | 17:31 |
| AStorm | GeneralAntilles, because sbox is crud | 17:31 |
| AStorm | horrible thing | 17:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, this is like being empowered to tell Nokia exactly what color they want them to paint three barns though. | 17:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | AStorm, sbox? What? | 17:31 |
| AStorm | scratchbox | 17:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | I mean, all they gotta do is say what they want in PIM | 17:32 |
| johnx | I don't think they know :/ | 17:32 |
| GeneralAntilles | AStorm, yeah, I know what sbox is, but I fail to see what it has to do with itT and PIM. :P | 17:32 |
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| GeneralAntilles | johnx, aaaah, now we get to the heart of it. ;) | 17:32 |
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| AStorm | hehehe | 17:32 |
| camel_liu | johnx, I submited one. | 17:33 |
| AStorm | I will write a smart PIM later | 17:33 |
| AStorm | (as in, predictive) | 17:33 |
| johnx | camel_liu, thank you. :) | 17:33 |
| camel_liu | It's my pleasure. | 17:33 |
| GeneralAntilles | Somebody should code up a Newton assistant clone. | 17:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | That thing was the best. | 17:34 |
| johnx | most people never had a chance to get their hands on a newton | 17:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | Sadly | 17:34 |
| lcuk | mm olivia | 17:34 |
| johnx | or a psion for that matter | 17:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | Little text box you could bring up from anywhere that let you type in things like "Set an alarm for tomorrow at 7 AM for a conference call" | 17:35 |
| GeneralAntilles | "Schedule an appointment with James C next Tuesday at 2 PM" | 17:35 |
| lcuk | i like that kind of idea :) anything that allows instant input | 17:35 |
| johnx | actually it's too bad that the same kinds of people who designed such clever UIs for old proprietary OSes aren't still designing something nice and small for mobile Linux... | 17:36 |
| lcuk | engage warp drive | 17:36 |
| lardman | johnx: is there a step-by-step with screen shots or a video of it in action? | 17:36 |
| lardman | johnx: the Newton that is; I think mine is too old | 17:36 |
| johnx | GeneralAntilles, google calendar will cope with that kind of appointment entry well too | 17:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | 10 years later | 17:36 |
| johnx | lardman, actually, all I've seen are screenshots and descriptions | 17:37 |
| lardman | oh right, GeneralAntilles? | 17:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | lardman, I'd lend you one of my 2100s if you were in the States. | 17:37 |
| johnx | heh, well I can't think of one other thing besides gcal that *does* cope with that even today | 17:37 |
| GeneralAntilles | or if a group of you in the UK want to put together a pool to cover the cost of shipping. | 17:37 |
| lardman | lol, I might be over in Florida in March | 17:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Where to? | 17:38 |
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| lardman | some conference somewhere, I'll look at a map | 17:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Likely Orlando or Miami | 17:38 |
| lardman | yeah Orlando, Disney World | 17:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Orlando sucks so much | 17:39 |
| johnx | a conference with mickey mouse? | 17:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's basically theme parks + hell | 17:39 |
| lardman | nah, I just remember thinking Disney World when I saw the location :) | 17:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Right in the middle of the state, so it's fscking hot all the time. | 17:39 |
| johnx | hey! disney world was awesome when I was like ... 7 | 17:39 |
| lardman | not that the smile is for Disney World, I've no intention of ever going | 17:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://homepage.mac.com/weeno/.Movies/newtonassistant.mov | 17:40 |
| lardman | good call | 17:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | The other parks besides Magic Kingdom aren't terrible. | 17:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://homepage.mac.com/weeno/.Movies/newtonsayhello.mov | 17:41 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://homepage.mac.com/weeno/.Movies/newtontrash.mov | 17:41 |
| lardman | I'd still like Psion Agenda (and the database for that matter() | 17:41 |
| johnx | jeez. no wonder no one themes for maemo :/ | 17:42 |
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| GeneralAntilles | 'course, despite such an awesome UI, the obvious reason the Newton wasn't very popular is because it cost $1200 in _1996_. | 17:42 |
| X-Fade | lol | 17:42 |
| aquatix | you can buy an apple for that! | 17:42 |
| aquatix | oh wait | 17:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | 2 these days, aquatix. | 17:43 |
| * aquatix has a psion 5mx somewhere | 17:43 | |
| X-Fade | ipods? | 17:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | Mac Minis | 17:43 |
| aquatix | yeah | 17:43 |
| * johnx just revived his zaurus 5500 today | 17:43 | |
| aquatix | or 1.5 macbook with student discount | 17:44 |
| aquatix | calculating to current dollars | 17:44 |
| aquatix | johnx: ooh :) | 17:44 |
| GeneralAntilles | I wish the Mac Mini hadn't jumped up in price so much. | 17:44 |
| johnx | wonder if they'll refresh it or kill it... | 17:44 |
| camel_liu | johnx, in one of my N800, it is always unable to download things. It says application package not found. | 17:44 |
| aquatix | johnx: the latter i think | 17:44 |
| camel_liu | But the other one can. | 17:44 |
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| johnx | camel_liu, in application manager, make sure you have the same repositories enabled on both | 17:47 |
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| camel_liu | I cannot download rootsh for that one, and then cannot update list, so cannot download others. Loop! | 17:51 |
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| johnx | you can install rootsh from a file: http://repository.maemo.org/extras/pool/4.1/free/r/rootsh/rootsh_1.4_armel.deb | 17:52 |
| johnx | copy that to an sd card and open it with "file manager" | 17:53 |
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| cyrus__ | I have a couple of questions regarding the kernel source available from http://repository.maemo.org/pool/diablo/free/k/kernel-source-diablo/. First, the file kernel-source-diablo_2.6.21.orig.tar.gz. Is that the original 2.6.21 kernel with the OMAP patches applied? | 17:54 |
| cyrus__ | And if that is true, then is the file kernel-source-diablo_2.6.21-200835maemo1.diff.gz just the patch to get that kernel to run on the n810? | 17:54 |
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| cyrus__ | anyone? | 17:58 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: yeah | 18:02 |
| johnx | any luck? | 18:02 |
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| RST38h | moo, johnx | 18:04 |
| johnx | m00f | 18:04 |
| RST38h | General: you can buy mac mini like PC easily | 18:04 |
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| RST38h | and it will be less trouble to mess with | 18:05 |
| GeneralAntilles | That's not the point. | 18:05 |
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| GeneralAntilles | My grandmother can't set up a hackintosh without my help. | 18:05 |
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| lardman | cyrus__: anyone's guess, you'll have to look at the patch and the tarball and see what the changelog says | 18:10 |
| RST38h | But why does she need a Mac? =) | 18:14 |
| qwerty12 | Time to reformat my linux partition :) | 18:16 |
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| Veggen_ | GA: But she can't set up windows either, and windows is high-maintenance when run by non-experts. | 18:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Veggen_, your point? | 18:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Windows isn't involved in this discussion anywhere. | 18:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm talking about my grandmother buying a Mac Mini to run OS X. | 18:18 |
| Veggen_ | Oh, I'm just barging in without bothering to read the dialogue before. Nothing new here ;) | 18:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Not a generic PC to run OS X | 18:18 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Not a generic PC to run Windows. | 18:18 |
| Veggen_ | GA: ok :) | 18:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | RST38h, because it's what she knows. | 18:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | From work. | 18:18 |
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| lardman | http://wiki.maemo.org/Task:PIM I added a section for people to list what's missing in the current PIM apps | 18:19 |
| lardman | hmm, does this work for anyone? http://protoblogr.net/blog/view/maemo_community_calendar.html | 18:21 |
| X-Fade | lardman: No, it is not enabled atm. | 18:21 |
| qwerty12 | Timing out here | 18:21 |
| qwerty12 | The site that is | 18:21 |
| johnx | same | 18:21 |
| lardman | X-Fade: the documentation's not available? | 18:22 |
| lardman | X-Fade: or the site's just down? | 18:22 |
| X-Fade | lardman: That is a midgard plugin on the website. But it is not enabled. | 18:22 |
| lardman | ok | 18:22 |
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| lcuk | GeneralAntilles, i never knew your gran was a graphic designer | 18:27 |
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| johnx | lcuk, at my old job (small company) everyone had a Mac on their desk because it took less time and effort to deal with than a PC running windows or linux | 18:29 |
| penguinbait | lcuk :) | 18:29 |
| penguinbait | http://www.foundshit.com/bacon-briefcase/ | 18:29 |
| penguinbait | or http://www.foundshit.com/bacon-brasserie/ | 18:30 |
| penguinbait | both nice bacon accessories :) | 18:30 |
| johnx | additionally: http://gadgets.boingboing.net/2008/10/24/from-the-makers-of-b.html | 18:30 |
| johnx | baconaise! | 18:31 |
| lardman | :) | 18:32 |
| lcuk | oh the joys of bacon | 18:32 |
| lardman | meetings would be difficult ;) | 18:32 |
| penguinbait | or how about http://ferretnick.blogspot.com/2008/02/random-crap-020108-edition.html (bacon panties, earrings and vodka) | 18:32 |
| penguinbait | lcuk, I'm not sure you are as commited as these folks :) | 18:33 |
| penguinbait | http://skullsandbacon.blogspot.com/2008/06/bacon-tattoos.html | 18:33 |
| lcuk | my god its full of stars (with bacon) | 18:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, :rolleyes: | 18:34 |
| lcuk | bbsoon you bastards made me hungry again | 18:34 |
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| RST38h | crazies | 18:40 |
| johnx | RST38h, what, the bacon enthusiasts? | 18:40 |
| lardman | do you lot get people phoning you and asking you to confirm your personal details? | 18:41 |
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| lardman | and then being shocked when I ask them to tell me them first as I don't know who the hell they are :) | 18:42 |
| qwerty12 | I get fucking wankers trying to sell stuff over the phone | 18:42 |
| johnx | I don't get phone scams/spams. I get spam on my phone's email address though :/ | 18:42 |
| penguinbait | don't you have to down a few pints before using the term "fucking wankers" | 18:43 |
| lardman | penguinbait: he's 16, probably been drinking since noon | 18:43 |
| penguinbait | I thought that was some sort of law | 18:43 |
| penguinbait | :) | 18:43 |
| lardman | the other thing that annoys me if forum users talking about "wetting their pants" (or worse) after exciting news | 18:43 |
| lardman | I'm feeling old and crotchety today ;) | 18:44 |
| johnx | nah, it's strange to me too | 18:44 |
| penguinbait | OMG, thats awesome, I just got a little wet | 18:44 |
| RST38h | johnx: yep | 18:44 |
| yacoob | grandpa lardman! did you have forks, to eat your dinosaurs with? | 18:44 |
| RST38h | qwerty: That is why mighty USofA has the Do Not Call List | 18:45 |
| johnx | but 10 years of using unix/linux adds hundreds of points to one's crotchety meter | 18:45 |
| lardman | it was blue-green algae back in my day! | 18:45 |
| RST38h | qwerty: george WWW bush only contribution to the public good | 18:45 |
| qwerty12 | heh | 18:45 |
| RST38h | johnx: you also get a beard and a belly | 18:45 |
| lcuk | qwerty has one of those already heh | 18:45 |
| johnx | I guess it's not working right :/ | 18:45 |
| RST38h | USENIX crowd should be fun to watch | 18:45 |
| qwerty12 | lcuk, Well, I have the stubble but no belly :D | 18:46 |
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| penguinbait | qwerty, give it 20 years | 18:49 |
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| penguinbait | it'll come :) | 18:49 |
| lardman | drinking from noon helps too | 18:49 |
| * qwerty12 can't wait | 18:50 | |
| qwerty12 | :P | 18:50 |
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| solca | hi folks! | 18:52 |
| solca | i'm building my own kernel | 18:52 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: no issue whatsoever, the maemo gtk debs i gave out only had the problem of not providing gtk-2.0.0-bin or something | 18:52 |
| solca | but it seems it can't boot from MMC | 18:52 |
| Stskeeps | i used them as drop in replacements | 18:52 |
| solca | it just boot from NAND | 18:52 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: but there were collisions with non-hildon vms | 18:52 |
| solca | any ideas? | 18:52 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, so no API break? interesting | 18:52 |
| Stskeeps | wms | 18:52 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: yeah, it went fine but interactions were fucky in LXDE | 18:53 |
| qwerty12 | solca, the nokia kernel doesn't boot from mmc by default either. Install bootmenu or use the linux flasher to change your boot device | 18:53 |
| johnx | well, I'm slowly dragging towards an alternate desktop based on matchbox | 18:53 |
| solca | I already do that when I installed Deblet, but I changed the cmdline parameter in the kernel to boot from MMC directly | 18:54 |
| solca | but it doesn't work | 18:54 |
| solca | this is my kernel parameter: root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 ro rootdelay=5 | 18:55 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/gtk/ | 18:55 |
| johnx | oh, swell! | 18:55 |
| Stskeeps | solca: kernel parameter change doesnt work afaik .. | 18:56 |
| Stskeeps | from flasher | 18:56 |
| Stskeeps | unless you hardwire the cmdline parameter | 18:56 |
| solca | Stskeeps: I changed in the kernel config | 18:56 |
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| Stskeeps | sure it doesnt get overriden? :P | 18:57 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: it may cause problems cos of some silly package debian builds but maemo gtk doesn't | 18:57 |
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| solca | Stskeeps: can I change the kernel cmdline from the flasher? | 18:58 |
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| Stskeeps | solca: think so but im not sure it works or not :P | 18:58 |
| solca | I'm currently doing ./flasher -f -k zImage -R | 18:58 |
| Stskeeps | but why not use a bootmenu? | 18:59 |
| Stskeeps | with my linuxrc bootmenu it is less like using a condom (nokias weird tricks..) | 19:00 |
| solca | because I screew it up, I build this new kernel based on 2.6.25.19-omap1+android and I changed the initfs /lib/modules/current to point to the new kernel | 19:00 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 19:01 |
| solca | Stskeeps: any other way I could restore that symlink to the original | 19:01 |
| Stskeeps | always possible to reflash certain parts | 19:01 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:01 |
| solca | the last option is to reflash the initfs | 19:01 |
| Stskeeps | so you're going to experiment iwth the stlc45xx kerne ltoo? | 19:04 |
| Stskeeps | +module | 19:04 |
| Stskeeps | damn, i can really feel i'm completely busted after a long day :P | 19:05 |
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| solca | Stskeeps: well I was booting the Android stuff | 19:06 |
| solca | but I'm interested in the stlc45xx module too | 19:06 |
| RST38h | btw, any chance to run latest android inside chroot? =) | 19:06 |
| solca | I already have the mac80211 in this new kernel | 19:06 |
| RST38h | as an application of sorts? | 19:06 |
| solca | RST38h: well I'm not interested in running Android along with maemo | 19:08 |
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| solca | I prefer to boot android as-is | 19:09 |
| RST38h | but is there a way to do it? | 19:09 |
| RST38h | 'cause Android by itself is of not much practical use - it is a java machine | 19:09 |
| johnx | if it can be booted, you *should* be able to chroot, and set things up with a script, then run the runtime | 19:10 |
| johnx | it'll take over the fb though | 19:10 |
| Stskeeps | i wonder how android+nit-env-base deblet could work | 19:11 |
| Stskeeps | +chroot | 19:11 |
| woglinde | hm I wonder google didnt use the ok-labs l4 kernel | 19:11 |
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| johnx | Stskeeps, honestly I don't see much point in having debian behind android as-is since they use their own libc | 19:12 |
| solca | Stskeeps: android uses the bionic libc | 19:12 |
| solca | which is not a problem just that is redundant | 19:12 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: true | 19:13 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: for the kicks :P | 19:13 |
| RST38h | johnx: that isn't much of a problem though | 19:13 |
| Stskeeps | solca: think you might have better luck with reflashing initfs, flashing deblet bootmenu, writing a /linuxrc to handle the boot for you | 19:13 |
| * RST38h has got to console prompt! | 19:14 | |
| Stskeeps | and then you have a sane platform to try out android and get things crackin' | 19:14 |
| RST38h | YEssss, my precioussss consssole prompt... | 19:14 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, sure I guess so, but it will involve booting debian, chrooting into your android install then running android and ignoring everything going on in the debian side for the most part | 19:14 |
| * RST38h stil does not understand why people are so bent on replacing Maemo | 19:14 | |
| qwerty12 | RST38h, I have done the same with fanoush's tools but I had no way of inputting anything :P | 19:14 |
| RST38h | qwerty: you mean the console prompt? Oh, it is not on Maemo ;) | 19:15 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: true ;) | 19:15 |
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| qwerty12 | RST38h, Ah, I thought you were talking about the tablet. I've had it on maemo. | 19:15 |
| Stskeeps | RST38h: i'm still pondering deblet purpose / goal really :P | 19:15 |
| Stskeeps | cos if we continue down the road it's just a similar-to-maemo-as-it-SHOULD-be distro | 19:16 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:16 |
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| Stskeeps | (as in how maemo -should- be) | 19:16 |
| solca | Stskeeps: yea, BTW I'm testing all stuff from Deblet | 19:16 |
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| binky | Hi all. | 19:16 |
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| Stskeeps | solca: ta - glad to see there's some people willing to sacrifice time and health on it ;) | 19:16 |
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| binky | -awesome, the online IRC client i'm triying works-- | 19:17 |
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| andre___ | hmm, docs people will hate me for mass spamming them by moving around bugzilla components... | 19:17 |
| solca | Stskeeps: I'm just wondering that I flash the Maemo with X but I was wondering if I could boot Deblet without X | 19:17 |
| binky | anyway, i'm here to ask a question if somebody can answer. | 19:17 |
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| solca | last time I try I get a blank screen | 19:17 |
| binky | My 770 started an endless reboot cycle. Sometimes the blue bar loads and reaches the end, ant then it stays like 30 seconds in a blank screen and reboots again -_- | 19:18 |
| Stskeeps | solca: yes, you can, and then hold down home key to get up rescue menu | 19:18 |
| Stskeeps | and then enable console | 19:18 |
| Stskeeps | (when it boots) | 19:18 |
| binky | I tried to reflash, but the Windows Flasher wanted me to update to Diablo (in a 770, that's silly) | 19:18 |
| binky | And i can't download the binaries from http://tablets-dev.nokia.com | 19:19 |
| Stskeeps | solca: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h24f2YjzWBE | 19:19 |
| binky | Because I don't have the MAC of my device, and if I remove the battery, I can get WSOD. | 19:19 |
| solca | Stskeeps: excellent! thx! | 19:19 |
| binky | Can anyone tell me the MAC of its device or point me to a mirror for OS2006 or OS2007HE binaries so I can reflash my 770? thankyou =) | 19:20 |
| solca | Stskeeps: btw do you have some sane initfs that I can download to fix this thing? | 19:20 |
| Stskeeps | solca: when i say barebones, i really mean barebones :P | 19:20 |
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| Stskeeps | solca: just reflash from a fiasco image | 19:20 |
| Stskeeps | there's a "only reflash -this part-" switch in flasher | 19:20 |
| lardman | binky: why does removing battery give you wsod? | 19:20 |
| solca | Stskeeps: no! that would burn my settings! | 19:20 |
| lardman | binky: some hw issue? loose contact? | 19:20 |
| solca | Stskeeps: ohh you mean I can throw a fiasco image and just tell the flasher to flash just the initfs? | 19:21 |
| Stskeeps | solca: you just asked if i had a initfs.. :P | 19:21 |
| Stskeeps | solca: yes | 19:21 |
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| GeneralAntilles | What a surprise, cable's out again. | 19:21 |
| binky | lardman: No, 770 has that f***ing defect... | 19:21 |
| lardman | the General takes over the body of another of his minions | 19:22 |
| Stskeeps | i thought the WSOD occoured when reflashing or something :P | 19:22 |
| RST38h | sts: That may be a goal on its own although I doubt it is a very large niche | 19:22 |
| * binky should buy a N800... | 19:22 | |
| lardman | binky: my point is, if you flash, you have to power down completely, so it makes no odds | 19:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, during start up. | 19:22 |
| binky | lardman: Yeah, I can turn it down | 19:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | power on, more accurately. | 19:22 |
| binky | It turns off itself after a couple of minutes | 19:22 |
| binky | and I can connect it to my computer with a USB cable | 19:23 |
| lardman | so taking the battery out to see your actual MAC is no worse than switching off and then reflashing | 19:23 |
| RST38h | sts: I would rather see something that runs stuff in chroot and tries to intelligently modify their gtk UI to fit Hildon, more or less | 19:23 |
| RST38h | sts: because running xfce et al on a tiny (physically) touch screen is weird | 19:23 |
| binky | lardman: I know, there is the same risk, but I stilll being afraid | 19:23 |
| binky | Is there example of MAC or something? | 19:23 |
| lardman | so just pull the battery out | 19:24 |
| lardman | no extra risk | 19:24 |
| qwerty12 | Pull it out. If it fucks up, use it as an excuse to get an N800. | 19:24 |
| binky | qwerty12: sorry, I'm 13. If I break it I may get hit =P | 19:25 |
| qwerty12 | Ah, heh, I know what you mean... | 19:25 |
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| Stskeeps | yes, we beat qwerty12 all the time | 19:25 |
| johnx | every time you turn it on it is just as likely to go WSOD | 19:25 |
| binky | qwerty12: I know, ALL of you were 13 -__- | 19:25 |
| johnx | if it's off now, pulling the battery won't make a difference | 19:25 |
| lardman | thanks johnx | 19:25 |
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| binky | johnx: sure?? curious | 19:26 |
| * lardman was having typers block | 19:26 | |
| * binky stills afraid. | 19:26 | |
| lardman | binky: yes | 19:26 |
| johnx | binky, it's the turning on part that kills it | 19:26 |
| johnx | if you don't want to break it pull the battery and never turn it on again | 19:26 |
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| * johnx was never 13. He had to repeat 12, then skipped to 14 | 19:26 | |
| Stskeeps | johnx: i guess that would go for constant rebooting too :P | 19:26 |
| * Stskeeps skipped 14, can't recall that year | 19:27 | |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:27 |
| lardman | drinking from noon? | 19:27 |
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| Stskeeps | nah, that was 18 | 19:27 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:27 |
| binky | OOOOOOOKKKK itttttttttttttttttt DDDIIIIIDDDDNNNT MAAAAKE WSODDDD.... | 19:28 |
| binky | thank you people | 19:28 |
| Stskeeps | yay | 19:28 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:28 |
| johnx | w00! | 19:28 |
| binky | (I'm idiot, I didn't dare before) -_- | 19:28 |
| johnx | now never turn it off again :) | 19:28 |
| johnx | I know. It's definitely scary to break hardware you can't afford to replace | 19:28 |
| cowbellemoo | ^ truth | 19:29 |
| lardman | Did we forget to tell you, everytime you switch it on you reduce your chances of getting a WSOD in the future | 19:29 |
| cowbellemoo | the opposite is also true | 19:29 |
| binky | I wouldn't. But all of you that have it know that it reboots randomly, doesn't | 19:29 |
| woglinde | h I wonder when we have kids at age of 6 here | 19:29 |
| lardman | or is that just my theory? | 19:29 |
| binky | woglinde: Yesterday I saw a 5 years old kid with a Vaio, we're not that far. | 19:30 |
| cowbellemoo | I keep leaving my old ipod in the car in the hopes someone will steal it and I have the excuse to trade up :P | 19:30 |
| Stskeeps | woglinde: when sugar gets working on tablet | 19:30 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 19:30 |
| woglinde | hehe | 19:30 |
| lardman | cowbellemoo: car? ;) | 19:30 |
| woglinde | hm I dont saw many africaan people chatting | 19:30 |
| lcuk | woglinde, my jacob plays with nokia all day - he loves mah jong and keeps drawing trains inliqbase | 19:30 |
| cowbellemoo | lardman, I want an excuse to get a new car, too. :D | 19:31 |
| woglinde | lcuk my son likes to watch the aquarium screensaver | 19:31 |
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| johnx | lots cheaper than a real aquarium :D | 19:31 |
| woglinde | hehe yes | 19:31 |
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| * qwerty12_1 cries as I burn a 700MB iso onto a DVD-r | 19:32 | |
| woglinde | qwerty12_1 dvd is cheap | 19:32 |
| johnx | qwerty12_1, be happy with media prices these days </old man rant> | 19:33 |
| binky | qwerty12_1: I cried when a friend burnt 90 mbs of photos in a DVD... sigh | 19:33 |
| qwerty12_1 | woglinde, yeah, but i'm a tramp and can't be bothered to keep getting them :P | 19:33 |
| qwerty12_1 | binky, what? lol | 19:33 |
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| * GeneralAntilles just uses hard drives for installers. | 19:33 | |
| qwerty12_1 | Though I should note to remove the plastic cover from top of the disk, the dvd drive went crazy | 19:33 |
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| lardman | not £4/disk anymore then? | 19:34 |
| johnx | a guy on my floor in college put a cracked cd in his drive to back it up...now that's a dvd drive going crazy :D | 19:34 |
| woglinde | qwerty12 bye a dvd-+rw nextime | 19:34 |
| qwerty12_1 | yeah :) | 19:35 |
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| johnx | lardman, heh...cheap optical media, expensive gas. :D how times change... | 19:35 |
| * qwerty12_1 reboots into linux to backup my scratchbox's ~ | 19:35 | |
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| woglinde | qwerty12_1 hm did you finalize the dvd? otherwise you can put tracks ahead | 19:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hrm, almost forgot about this http://www.legacyoflies.com/devuploads/general_antilles/adv-backlight-schedule-mockup.png | 19:36 |
| lardman | yeah well, I still spend more of petrol than DVD-Rs | 19:36 |
| lardman | s/of/on | 19:36 |
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| solca | Stskeeps: it works! with ./flasher -f -F fiasco_img.bin --flash-only=kernel,initfs -R | 19:46 |
| solca | thx! | 19:46 |
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| woglinde | solca hm I think this mentioned in the wiki for flasher | 19:47 |
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| solca | woglinde: really, where to? | 19:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | https://wiki.maemo.org/Flasher | 19:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~flasher is https://wiki.maemo.org/Flasher | 19:48 |
| infobot | ...but flasher is already something else... | 19:48 |
| GeneralAntilles | ~flasher | 19:48 |
| infobot | methinks flasher is http://wiki.maemo.org/Flasher | 19:48 |
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| solca | GeneralAntilles: cool! now to learn about all those weird flags... | 19:50 |
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| solca | it seems is not complete, what it means R&D mode? | 19:52 |
| woglinde | R&D is some developer mode | 19:53 |
| woglinde | is one way to get root support | 19:53 |
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| solca | woglinde: where can I get more info on those r&d flags? | 19:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | They're fairly descriptive | 19:58 |
| woglinde | solca ther is only one | 19:58 |
| GeneralAntilles | There are several | 19:58 |
| woglinde | hm oh | 19:58 |
| solca | I have seen the no-lifeguard-reset used by various people but I don't know what it means | 19:59 |
| woglinde | ups sorry | 19:59 |
| woglinde | I thought only for --enable-rd-mode | 19:59 |
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| GeneralAntilles | no-omap-wd no-retu-wd no-lifeguard-reset serial-console no-usb-timeout | 19:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's a lifeguard daemon process that monitors certain other processes and will trigger a reboot if they go down | 19:59 |
| GeneralAntilles | watchdog | 19:59 |
| solca | no-.*wd for disabling the hw watchdogs me thinks | 19:59 |
| solca | GeneralAntilles: so these no-lifeguard-reset is a flag that is polled from userspace so a daemon is not run? | 20:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'm not certain of the specifics of the implementation | 20:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | but you'll experience no lifeguard resets when that flag is set. | 20:01 |
| solca | GeneralAntilles: and where are this flags stored? NAND? | 20:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes | 20:02 |
| solca | in the bootloader area? nolo? | 20:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | Likely the config partition | 20:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't recall offhand, though. | 20:02 |
| solca | ok | 20:03 |
| solca | btw this flag '--set-root-device' it works just for the standard kernel? | 20:04 |
| solca | I mean I compiled a kernel and flash it but it cant make the rootfs a mmc partition | 20:04 |
| solca | I change the kernel cmdline to root=/dev/mmcblk0p2 | 20:05 |
| solca | but this kernel would boot only from nand | 20:05 |
| solca | I recheck and MMC is _in_ the kernel | 20:05 |
| solca | any ideas? | 20:06 |
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| johnx | support for that fs in the kernel? | 20:06 |
| solca | ext2 too inside the kernel | 20:06 |
| * solca is wondering that this --set-root-device flasher flag does, it seems is not documented | 20:08 | |
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| johnx | ~praise dh_make | 20:15 |
| infobot | All hail dh_make! | 20:15 |
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| solca | ~praise deblet's rescue menu | 20:24 |
| infobot | All hail deblet's rescue menu! | 20:24 |
| solca | ;) | 20:24 |
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| Stskeeps | solca: something like that should really be in initfs. | 20:28 |
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| * solca agrees | 20:28 | |
| * solca nods | 20:29 | |
| solca | Stskeeps: should be standard in the official firmware along with bootmenu | 20:29 |
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| solca | Stskeeps: do you use the r&d flags for something in Deblet? | 20:31 |
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| Stskeeps | solca: nada | 20:32 |
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| solca | Stskeeps: ok, one more thing: | 20:33 |
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| solca | I'm currently in the framebuffer console, how to issue a Ctrl-C and how to put a | ? | 20:33 |
| Stskeeps | noo clue. i don't own a n810, i usbnet in :P | 20:34 |
| solca | I already figured out that <Menu> is <Tab> | 20:34 |
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| solca | Stskeeps: Deblet is so nice, I'm just wondering if something like libc6-i686 could be done to optimize the libc | 20:57 |
| solca | I think stock armel debian is compiled for armv4 | 20:57 |
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| Stskeeps | solca: i did a libc.. sec | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/glibc-optimized/ | 20:58 |
| Stskeeps | dont take the nscd | 20:58 |
| solca | excellent! what cflags do you used? i think n8x0 supports '-mcpu=arm1136jf-s -mtune=arm1136jf-s' | 21:00 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | it does | 21:00 |
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| Stskeeps | solca: something like that yeah | 21:00 |
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| solca | Stskeeps: why not put it in stock deblet? n710? | 21:03 |
| Stskeeps | solca: and because i'm not sure of the direct benefits | 21:03 |
| johnx | also, I think I might have found the reason midori gave slower benchmarks with it: it affects thumb-mode which can result in a net slowdown | 21:05 |
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| Stskeeps | ah, switches between thumb and not i guess? | 21:05 |
| johnx | yes, I believe so. did you see the other vfp benchmark page? | 21:05 |
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| Stskeeps | maybe | 21:05 |
| johnx | I guess it's kind of an all or nothing deal :/ | 21:05 |
| Stskeeps | isn't it armv4t though? | 21:06 |
| Stskeeps | so everything is thumb already | 21:06 |
| r2d2rogers | Stskeeps: howdy, I'm trying to put deblet on my 770, but the | 21:06 |
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| johnx | Stskeeps, mixing thumb code and vfp code is supposed to be slow from what I understand | 21:07 |
| Stskeeps | ah | 21:07 |
| Stskeeps | r2d2rogers: but the? ;) | 21:07 |
| r2d2rogers | Stskeeps: howdy, I'm trying to put deblet on my 770, but the lxde package is broken, mssing a Dependancy | 21:07 |
| Stskeeps | which one? | 21:07 |
| r2d2rogers | at least I managed not to paste 106 lines ;) | 21:07 |
| solca | johnx: that was supposed in the old abi right? is the same for eabi? | 21:07 |
| r2d2rogers | nit-env-x | 21:08 |
| Stskeeps | and are you using my 770Port wiki page or the installer? | 21:08 |
| r2d2rogers | wiki page | 21:08 |
| johnx | solca, all I know about this is what I read here: http://syslog.movial.fi/archives/46-N800-VFP-or-not-to-VFP.html | 21:08 |
| Stskeeps | r2d2rogers: ok, but there's a higher level dependancy problem then :P | 21:09 |
| r2d2rogers | figures... I don't usually have easy problems <G> | 21:09 |
| Stskeeps | r2d2rogers: i need a full output of apt-get install nit-env-lxde :P | 21:09 |
| r2d2rogers | one minute for link to a pastebin | 21:09 |
| solca | johnx: ok, I'll read it, BTW I was looking into android and they have different cflags for thumb mode | 21:10 |
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| r2d2rogers | Stskeeps: http://pastebin.ca/1240868 | 21:12 |
| Stskeeps | what does apt-get install nit-env-x say then? | 21:13 |
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| r2d2rogers | Stskeeps: missing tablet-x | 21:17 |
| r2d2rogers | Stskeeps: tried installing that and got http://pastebin.ca/1240871 | 21:18 |
| Stskeeps | that's weird. do me a favour and start over, and then do apt-get install nit-env-lxde straight away and give me the full error, and then track back | 21:19 |
| Stskeeps | cos you installed stuff before | 21:19 |
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| Stskeeps | i hope to make a installer eventually but.. | 21:20 |
| Stskeeps | it's kinda weird that it doesn't work | 21:20 |
| * r2d2rogers scrolls back in his screen session to see if the first error was different | 21:21 | |
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| r2d2rogers | the only thing I *know* I did different was to correc /usr/bin/... to /usr/sbin at one point | 21:21 |
| Stskeeps | mm | 21:22 |
| r2d2rogers | chmod a+rx /usr/bin/invoke-rc.d | 21:22 |
| Stskeeps | what does apt-get install nit-env-base say? | 21:22 |
| Stskeeps | basic, that is | 21:22 |
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| r2d2rogers | similar but wants to remove rsyslog instead | 21:23 |
| r2d2rogers | want it in pastbin? | 21:23 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 21:23 |
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| r2d2rogers | Stskeeps: http://pastebin.ca/1240877 | 21:25 |
| Stskeeps | dpkg -l | grep tablet-hw | 21:26 |
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| r2d2rogers | -:~# dpkg -l | grep tablet-hw | 21:27 |
| r2d2rogers | ii tablet-hw-su-18-nonfree 1.0 Nokia 770 non-free repo support | 21:27 |
| r2d2rogers | ii tablet-hw-su-18-support 1.1 Deblet Hardware support for SU-18 (770) | 21:27 |
| Stskeeps | ok | 21:27 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 21:27 |
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| r2d2rogers | k | 21:27 |
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| Stskeeps | brb going home | 21:38 |
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| r2d2rogers | Stskeeps: cooo | 21:39 |
| r2d2rogers | l | 21:39 |
| Stskeeps | try install nit-env-basic and then nit-env-lxde i guess | 21:39 |
| Stskeeps | or something | 21:39 |
| r2d2rogers | let it remove the rkog bit? | 21:39 |
| r2d2rogers | rsyslog? | 21:39 |
| r2d2rogers | will do | 21:39 |
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| Stskeeps | yeah | 21:41 |
| Stskeeps | that's normal | 21:41 |
| Stskeeps | i let it use a circular syslogd instead | 21:41 |
| Stskeeps | bbl | 21:41 |
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| unixSnob | maemo doesn't know what a gsm file is. What should I convert it to? ogg? | 21:51 |
| woglinde | gsm is a standard? | 21:51 |
| unixSnob | woglinde: gsm is a standard for voice | 21:51 |
| unixSnob | (these are voicemails) | 21:51 |
| woglinde | hm oh I thought you mean the GSM standard | 21:52 |
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| woglinde | maemo can play ogg yes | 21:52 |
| unixSnob | mp3 isn't an option, btw, because it has licensing issues | 21:52 |
| woglinde | mp3 I do not know because the license problem | 21:52 |
| unixSnob | okay, thanks.. i'll try ogg | 21:52 |
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| solca | unixSnob: FLAC is patent-free and is lossless | 21:55 |
| solca | http://blogs.zdnet.com/BTL/?p=10436 | 21:55 |
| unixSnob | solca: thanks for the tip - i'll try that if ogg doesn't work. However, it wouldn't be ideal, because the source files are rough quality voicemails | 21:56 |
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| unixSnob | hmm.. ogg doesn't work.. "unable to recognize file type..." | 21:56 |
| unixSnob | what a pain in the ass. flac is not supported by sox | 21:57 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Doesn't your phone record as .amr? I can play calls recorded from my phone on the N800 without conversion. | 21:57 |
| solca | unixSnob: for voice speex is a good choice too | 21:57 |
| woglinde | hm | 21:57 |
| unixSnob | any other audio formats i should try? | 21:57 |
| woglinde | I thought the gestreamer can handle ogg | 21:57 |
| qwerty12_N800 | woglinde, not by default | 21:58 |
| * unixSnob tries wav next | 21:58 | |
| woglinde | qwerty12 whats the default then? | 21:58 |
| woglinde | and why is nokia failling at this point | 21:58 |
| qwerty12_N800 | woglinde, mp3, amr? :p. ogg support has to be installed separatly | 21:59 |
| woglinde | qwerty12 you are sure nokia paid the mp3 license? | 21:59 |
| qwerty12_N800 | woglinde, i'd hope so... | 21:59 |
| solca | at least nokia should support the free codecs out of the box (flac,speex,ogg) | 22:00 |
| l7 | yeah, it is strange how they don't | 22:00 |
| l7 | maybe because it's more work for them | 22:00 |
| woglinde | or do sisvel have some fear to sue nokia | 22:00 |
| kulve | I just checked the archos 5 device and that does support ogg, so at least some new commercial devices do support og.. | 22:01 |
| kulve | +g | 22:01 |
| solca | kulve: does it supports flac too? | 22:01 |
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| kulve | it mentioned ogg and vorbis only | 22:01 |
| kulve | http://www.archos.com/products/imt/archos_5/specs.html | 22:02 |
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| kulve | no, it does mention flac too | 22:02 |
| GAN800 | Maemo 5 supports ogg | 22:02 |
| woglinde | GAN800 *g* | 22:02 |
| kulve | GAN800: it does? Is that a wish or has it been stated somewhere? | 22:02 |
| GAN800 | kulve, it does. | 22:03 |
| unixSnob | damn.. wav doesn't work either. It recognizes wav, launches the player, but then a popup "media codec not supported" | 22:03 |
| GAN800 | Announced at the Summit. | 22:03 |
| kulve | in that case I don't need to update my ogg-support anymore ;) | 22:03 |
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| GAN800 | kulve, well, you can stop 6-8 months from now. | 22:03 |
| kulve | yea | 22:03 |
| woglinde | kulve hm did you just install the gstreamer plugin? | 22:04 |
| kulve | I've compiled the needed plugins and libraries and they are downloadeble through the maemo.org/downloads | 22:05 |
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| kulve | via a package called ogg-support | 22:05 |
| woglinde | okay | 22:06 |
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| woglinde | why nokia didnt do this | 22:06 |
| solca | kulve: great, thx for the package | 22:06 |
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| woglinde | kulve extras or extras-devel? | 22:07 |
| kulve | woglinde: I guess because of some legal/licensing thikngs | 22:07 |
| kulve | things | 22:07 |
| woglinde | hu? | 22:07 |
| woglinde | you mean ogg can have some problems? | 22:07 |
| kulve | woglinde: unfortunately it's not in those repositories but in my own. | 22:07 |
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| woglinde | hm oh | 22:08 |
| woglinde | I just wanted point unixsnob to it | 22:08 |
| kulve | woglinde: a company can pay to get mp3 but they can't pay and get ogg.. They just need to hope that they are not sued for anything.. | 22:08 |
| unixSnob | i give up trying to find a natively supported format. How do I install ogg support from the app manager? I don't see it in the user/multimedia catagory | 22:09 |
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| woglinde | ask kulve if he gives you his .deb | 22:09 |
| solca | kulve: would you make your package public? | 22:10 |
| kulve | I'm trying to browse the maemo.org/downloads but the maemo.org is as slow as usual.. :/ | 22:10 |
| kulve | http://ogg.garage.maemo.org/ | 22:10 |
| kulve | solca: it is public | 22:10 |
| woglinde | hm | 22:10 |
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| woglinde | whats the problem with uploading it to extras-devel? | 22:11 |
| kulve | I've modified the Nokia's gstreamer packages and it would be bad thing to offer a different source package with the same name | 22:11 |
| woglinde | hm | 22:12 |
| woglinde | you could rename it a little bit | 22:12 |
| kulve | so I would have to rename the sources first. And the mogg -project has also uploaded e.g. libogg so I shouldn't override it either.. | 22:12 |
| woglinde | or ask the board members here how to solve it | 22:12 |
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| woglinde | kulve hm who is enabling extras and extras-devel should know what he is doing | 22:13 |
| kulve | I guess we'll just wait the 8months to get it officially in maemo | 22:13 |
| woglinde | *g* | 22:13 |
| kulve | but now I'm off | 22:13 |
| woglinde | bye | 22:13 |
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| JamieBennett | anyone want to tell me why I can't get my content to center using css? http://www.linuxuk.org I think its something to do with margin but for the life of me I can't see it | 22:23 |
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| JamieBennett | no website gurus around then ? | 22:27 |
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| straind` | Hey folks, I've got a 770, and after it has been idle for a while it asks me to press the power button followed by the select button. Any idea how I turn that off? | 22:32 |
| r2d2rogers | Brightness setting icon atthe top | 22:32 |
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| r2d2rogers | settings | 22:33 |
| r2d2rogers | look for lock screen and keys | 22:33 |
| r2d2rogers | uncheck | 22:33 |
| straind` | Thanks. I just looked at that, and ignored it. :) | 22:33 |
| r2d2rogers | welcome | 22:33 |
| r2d2rogers | I'm trying to get deblet installed on my 770 | 22:34 |
| straind` | I've had my 770 for about a year now, and had it loaded up just how I wanted it. Then I was playing with Bluetooth and installed some packages and had to reflash it. I lost kismet and several other things that were working until then. :( | 22:36 |
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| r2d2rogers | all my settings are sitting on my MMC in a dual boot | 22:36 |
| r2d2rogers | or... on my *other* MMC | 22:36 |
| r2d2rogers | so I can get back to that when I'm ready | 22:37 |
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| r2d2rogers | hmmm 770 rebooted | 22:39 |
| r2d2rogers | chroot build again | 22:39 |
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| JamieBennett | how often does planet pick up feeds? | 22:48 |
| bergie | JamieBennett: every hour | 22:49 |
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| JamieBennett | bergie, interesting. I have a post from several hours ago (6 maybe) that hasn't been syndicated yet. | 22:51 |
| bergie | do you use feedburner or something like that inbetween? | 22:51 |
| lcuk | JamieBennett, is that cos your other one is still there? | 22:51 |
| bergie | lcuk: we don't check against that | 22:51 |
| JamieBennett | lcuk: other one? I've had up to 4 posts on the planet and the front news site at a time | 22:52 |
| * lcuk didnt know | 22:52 | |
| lcuk | heh | 22:52 |
| JamieBennett | bergie: yes | 22:52 |
| JamieBennett | feedburner | 22:52 |
| bergie | lcuk: planet you can spam full if you want... social news is the filtered one | 22:52 |
| bergie | JamieBennett: can you check if FB has picked up your story yet? | 22:52 |
| bergie | sometimes they cause quite long delays | 22:52 |
| bergie | I noticed my feed might get delayed 6+ hours because of FB so I disabled it | 22:53 |
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| JamieBennett | Yes, its in feedburner as of 11:24 this morning (http://feeds.feedburner.com/Linuxuk) | 22:54 |
| JamieBennett | 9 hours ago | 22:54 |
| bergie | ok, let me check what the importer log says | 22:55 |
| JamieBennett | bergie, cool, I've noticed it a few times | 22:55 |
| JamieBennett | (maybe something to do with my feed?) | 22:55 |
| bergie | things are little slow still until we get green light for upgrading the servers to ragnaroek | 22:56 |
| bergie | BTW, I saw some weird timestamps on the servers... I think the VMware virtual servers don't quite stay on time | 22:56 |
| bergie | that can easily affect feed imports | 22:56 |
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| JamieBennett | timing issues will definitely do it | 22:57 |
| bergie | JamieBennett: what is the name of your blog? | 22:57 |
| JamieBennett | linuxuk | 22:57 |
| bergie | "Latest item is from 10/26/08 23:12:42, latest fetch was on 10/30/08 12:29:49" | 22:58 |
| bergie | every other feed has latest fetch from around 22:40 | 22:59 |
| JamieBennett | :( Thought it was every hour | 22:59 |
| JamieBennett | feedburner? | 22:59 |
| bergie | aha... "No items found in feed." | 22:59 |
| JamieBennett | ? | 22:59 |
| JamieBennett | It finds them most of the time http://feeds.feedburner.com/Linuxuk | 23:00 |
| bergie | yeah... let me check if there is some parsing issue in the feed | 23:00 |
| bergie | the URL subscribed is http://feeds.feedburner.com/LinuxUk-Maemo BTW | 23:01 |
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| JamieBennett | yes, my maemo only feed | 23:01 |
| bergie | "MagpieRSS: Failed to fetch http://feeds.feedburner.com/LinuxUk-Maemo" | 23:02 |
| JamieBennett | (I'm not partial to thumb downs ;)) | 23:02 |
| bergie | I think it timeouts or something | 23:02 |
| JamieBennett | ah | 23:02 |
| JamieBennett | load problem ala karma or feedburner? | 23:02 |
| bergie | feedburner | 23:03 |
| bergie | feedvalidator.org didn't get it either | 23:03 |
| JamieBennett | OK, your timeout too strict or something I should take up with feedburner? | 23:03 |
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| JamieBennett | feedvalidator.org is real ssslllooooowww for me :( | 23:06 |
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| pupnik | hey i found a great deal on ebay! in Austria: nokia 770 for 250 euro | 23:07 |
| woglinde | pupnik to much | 23:08 |
| florian | pupnik: hehe | 23:08 |
| JamieBennett | pupnik: not sure on how much they normally are but 770's on ebay in the UK for for 80-100 euro max | 23:08 |
| JamieBennett | 810's are a different matter | 23:08 |
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| JamieBennett | bergie: whats with the new date added to the karma display, first time karma was registered? Would be more useful as last time karma was indexed. | 23:10 |
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| JamieBennett | oh and bergie: 'This feed is valid', from feedvalidator.org | 23:11 |
| bergie | yeah, sometimes it responds in time, sometimes it doesn't | 23:12 |
| bergie | JamieBennett: the problem is, the RSS importer only gets one try per hour | 23:12 |
| pupnik | oop forgot my sarcasm tag... | 23:13 |
| JamieBennett | bergie: OK sometimes it timesout but 9 times in the last 9 hours, its either a low threshold with your software of bad problems googles end (and feedburner) | 23:14 |
| bergie | JamieBennett: not unheard of with feedburner, unfortunately :-( | 23:14 |
| JamieBennett | bergie: maybe its time I switched then :) | 23:15 |
| JamieBennett | bergie: as for the karma question? | 23:15 |
| bergie | it *should* be the time of last recount, but I've seen quite wild numbers there, possibly because server clocks have been running crazy | 23:15 |
| bergie | like it said my karma was from Nov 27th 2007 or something like that | 23:16 |
| JamieBennett | bergie: yes my karma was 2007 too :) | 23:16 |
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| JamieBennett | bergie so it _should_ be last indexed time? | 23:16 |
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| JamieBennett | good idea when it works | 23:17 |
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| bergie | JamieBennett: I've tried manually reloading your feed a couple of times... doesn't help | 23:22 |
| JamieBennett | bergie what about http://linuxuk.org/taxonomy/term/3 ? | 23:22 |
| bergie | that isn't a feed :-) | 23:23 |
| JamieBennett | OK :) http://linuxuk.org/taxonomy/term/3/0/fee | 23:23 |
| JamieBennett | http://linuxuk.org/taxonomy/term/3/0/feed | 23:23 |
| bergie | on my test box the latest item is "Mamona & Maemo: 2 way contribution" | 23:24 |
| JamieBennett | Yes, thats one in front of planet.maemo.org | 23:24 |
| JamieBennett | so maybe I should get rid of feedburner then | 23:24 |
| JamieBennett | (as you seem to see the correct feed directly) | 23:24 |
| bergie | yeah | 23:25 |
| bergie | FB seems to do bad things | 23:25 |
| JamieBennett | :( | 23:25 |
| JamieBennett | Can you change it bergie or who do I email? | 23:25 |
| bergie | better if you contact X-Fade... I'm trying to keep my hands off actual site content :-) | 23:26 |
| JamieBennett | OK, no problem. Thanks for narrowing it down to feedburner for me | 23:26 |
| bergie | hehe... I just went through some performance test results between the Midgard we're running on maemo.org, and the one on my laptop... some 160x the speed | 23:26 |
| bergie | I mean versions, not server setups | 23:27 |
| JamieBennett | :) lets hope the new servers give us something remotely like that | 23:27 |
| bergie | I don't think we'll get quite that big difference when we upgrade, but it should be significant | 23:27 |
| JamieBennett | then its time for the software upgrade too then ;) | 23:27 |
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| GNUton | Hi there | 23:29 |
| woglinde | hi gnuton | 23:29 |
| GNUton | Hey woglinde | 23:29 |
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| lardman | Anyone following the PIM thing? | 23:30 |
| woglinde | lardman not really | 23:31 |
| woglinde | I read most of the old arguments | 23:31 |
| JamieBennett | bergie: one last question, when will Karma catch up? I only ask as (somewhat related) I went to xfade's account and his Karma was from 04/10/08 nearly a year more than me :) | 23:31 |
| JamieBennett | lardman: yes | 23:31 |
| lardman | hmm, karma, I wonder if I still have 8 for discussion....? | 23:31 |
| JamieBennett | lardman: mines from 2007 it says :) | 23:32 |
| lardman | yeah, mine's still broken too then | 23:32 |
| bergie | JamieBennett: there are 14k entries to run through, 300 per hour | 23:33 |
| bergie | ...starting from oldest updated ones | 23:33 |
| lardman | bergie: have the problems been fixed? | 23:33 |
| lcuk | all from a 770 multitasking running the main server at same time! | 23:33 |
| bergie | actually the recounts started only some 5 hour ago, as yesterday there was a setup problem with it | 23:33 |
| JamieBennett | 46 hours then | 23:33 |
| bergie | lardman: yes... we split the recount into smaller chunks so that it doesn't run out of memory/time | 23:34 |
| JamieBennett | (2 days) | 23:34 |
| JamieBennett | sounds like a plan bergie | 23:34 |
| lardman | bergie: cool | 23:34 |
| bergie | later on I'd like to split all these heavy calculations (social news, karma, ...) off the actual front-end server | 23:34 |
| bergie | but that depends on the infrastructure Nokia gets from Ixonos | 23:34 |
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| lcuk | nice, bergie, you could let us fill in our own karma values :) we won't cheat. honest | 23:35 |
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| JamieBennett | lardman: PIM? | 23:35 |
| woglinde | re lcuk | 23:35 |
| lardman | lcuk: your comment about the powervr is unsubstantiated, and I think it's wrong | 23:36 |
| JamieBennett | lcuk:-200 for the accent ;) | 23:36 |
| GNUton | poor lcuk :D | 23:36 |
| lardman | JamieBennett: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=24654&page=2 & https://wiki.maemo.org/Task:PIM | 23:36 |
| bergie | anyway, guys... if you have any issues with the web stuff, I'm most of the time lurking here so feel free to ping me :-) | 23:36 |
| JamieBennett | (I'm a northerner too ;)) | 23:36 |
| JamieBennett | thanks for your help bergie | 23:36 |
| bergie | np | 23:37 |
| lcuk | lardman, duly noted and ive done what i can to de-emphasise it | 23:39 |
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| lcuk | JamieBennett, my accent is perfect tyvm :P i was less northern then than ever | 23:40 |
| lardman | I've added a bit more blurb agreeing that we will still have the platform limited display bandwidth | 23:40 |
| JamieBennett | lcuk ;) Its the scouse :) | 23:40 |
| lcuk | then you are double wrong, im a mancunian | 23:40 |
| JamieBennett | lardman: PIM depends entirely on where Nokia want to take the device | 23:41 |
| lardman | JamieBennett: you'll offend him! | 23:41 |
| qwerty12_N800 | JamieBennett, Omg, another one with the accent?!? (i'm a yorkshire boi :p) | 23:41 |
| JamieBennett | lardman, that was the intention ;) | 23:41 |
| lardman | JamieBennett: agreed, but it would be useful to see what people want, and what's already supplied; even if Nokia don't do this for us, it could be another community driven thing | 23:41 |
| JamieBennett | qwerty12_N800 Yorkshire boy myself :D | 23:41 |
| JamieBennett | lardman: but for instance would you want a PIM on an archos device? | 23:42 |
| qwerty12_N800 | :D | 23:42 |
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| JamieBennett | qwerty: where from? | 23:42 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Halifax :) | 23:42 |
| JamieBennett | Bradford :D | 23:42 |
| lcuk | lardman, "from the kernel" you mean the powervr kernel? does it have one or is it just a custom chip - im assuming its similar in principle to the dsp | 23:42 |
| lardman | JamieBennett: if it were my only portable computer, then yes ;) | 23:43 |
| lardman | Linux kernel I meant | 23:43 |
| lardman | it's just hardware afaik | 23:43 |
| lardman | though it may have shaders and bits like that which are programmable | 23:43 |
| JamieBennett | lcuk; The best insult for a manc is to insult his football team or call him a scouse :) | 23:43 |
| lcuk | but the linux kernel doesnt manage the powervr - i thought it was like the dsp in that regard | 23:43 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hehe | 23:43 |
| lcuk | /ignore JamieBennett | 23:44 |
| lardman | lcuk: yes the Linux kernel does manage the powervr | 23:44 |
| JamieBennett | :P | 23:44 |
| lardman | lcuk: afaik it maps the registers, etc., into some part of kernel memory and the powervr kernel driver controls it | 23:44 |
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| lcuk | yes | 23:44 |
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| * lardman wonders why people don't add patches to gpe-calendar | 23:48 | |
| lardman | or rather people on itt don't add patches | 23:48 |
| lbt | soon - first I'm patching egroupware to fix the iCal export... | 23:48 |
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