IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2008-10-27

BugBluethan my coding does suck [X] ACK00:00
BugBluetime to do it tomorrow again from scratch00:01
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zapI think you don't take something relatively simple into account00:02
zapwrite a small test prog00:02
sjagan was timing out for me. Someone in this thread suggested to try with new .sh file. this really resolved the issue for me. Thanks for the help00:05
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BugBluezap: it's only 34 lines00:23
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lardmansjagan: cool, nice to hear that00:34
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livingtmI built a test app using gtk sharp- the buttons respond fine to the stylus, but doesnt respond with onclick to a finger pressing the button. is this a common problem?01:23
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leachim6where can I get os2008 HE02:55
leachim6can someone link me to it please02:55
leachim6thank you very much02:56
ShadowJK_what's the hacker's edition..02:57
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GeneralAntillesAmalgamation of OS2006 and OS2007/OS200803:00
GeneralAntillesThe wikipedia article explains more.03:00
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|rt|anyone know how to remove the face plate on the n810.  Is it just a matter of the 2 torx screws that are visible when you slide out the keyboard.03:05
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emma_goldsteinanyone knows how to join an irc-channel with telepathy-idle?04:37
GeneralAntilles /join <channel> ?04:38
GeneralAntillesDon't recall04:38
GeneralAntillesBut XChat is better anyway04:38
GeneralAntillesIt's in Extras-devel04:38
infobotsomebody said extras was
emma_goldsteinjust testing telepathy-framework - somehow they forgot to create a window to enter stuff like /join ;)04:39
GeneralAntillesNew chat, maybe?04:39
GeneralAntillesI don't recall, but it didn't take too long to do when I tried it months ago.04:39
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emma_goldsteincool - got it04:44
emmaI wonder why does emma_goldstein 's nick trigger my highlight.04:44
emma_goldsteinthat's the gloriour roots of this nick :P04:45
emmaStill, irssi should be smart enough to not highlight me on emma_goldstein04:47
emma_goldsteinI'm close to happy now doing irc with maemo-chat - and it knows how to highlight me04:48
GeneralAntillesXChat is way better04:48
emmaI'm generally exceedingly happy with irssi.04:49
emma_goldsteinI know - coming from pidgin and missing autoreply for nickserv in telepathy04:49
emma_goldsteinBut - it's a nice, clean and useful interface04:50
emma_goldsteinI'm on nokia n810 here04:51
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* camel_liu hi, I'm back.04:51
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camel_liuMay I ask what's the difference between diablo-sdk-testing/ and maemo_4.1/ in
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RST38hmoo all08:26
qwerty12hi RST38h08:27
RST38hhey qwerty08:36
RST38hIs transmission still not available from extras?08:36
qwerty12RST38h: Nah, I promoted it yesterday :)08:37
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RST38hnow, only need to get new canola and abiword...08:37
qwerty12You should remove pipeline's version if you have it installed first though08:37
RST38habiword still borderline usable?08:37
* qwerty12 gets back to minor h-a-m hacking. The grid view patch works well except for the stupid border that is defined in the theme.08:43
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GAN800One of you should get with m-vo08:47
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qwerty12Heh, not me. I didn't know until yesterday that you could use if statements like that in C++ after fucking around with && for about an hour08:47
qwerty12I'll concentrate on seeing if I can put of an prototype of the osv-c application manager.08:50
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RST38hScreenshots! Screenshot!08:55
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* qwerty12 goes back into blue pill mode after a couple of weeks :/09:07
qwerty12RST38h: Screenshot of the grid view?09:07
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qwerty12morning solmumaha09:08
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solmumahagot a nice offer, friend wants to sell me his n810 for 100 e09:09
qwerty12Hehe, nice. I once got offered a N810 for N800 + £3009:09
solmumahai would really like a sun readable screen09:10
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qwerty12That's retarded, you can't update your repos manually in blue pill mode... Time to fix that.09:11
solmumahabut hate losing two card slots09:11
qwerty12Heh, yeah, N800 screen is horrible in sunlight :(09:11
solmumahayes, it's a mirror09:11
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, yes you can.09:11
GeneralAntillesYou just have to be in one of the package views.09:11
GeneralAntillesBut I filed a bug about it if you want to provide a patch.09:11
qwerty12Ok, my bad. I said it's been a long while since I've been in blue pill :P09:12
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GeneralAntillesAh, t_s_o filled that bug09:13
GeneralAntillesNo wonder I couldn't find it.09:13
GeneralAntillesI guess yerga already patched it09:14
GeneralAntillesif you just want to use his. ;)09:14
qwerty12Yep, great!09:14
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qwerty12Done. I've also enabled the dependencies tab to be shown all the time ; in blue pill and red pill mode.09:15
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qwerty12Done. Any other requests that people want shifting from red pill mode into blue pill mode?09:21
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oilinki3qwerty12: what is the main difference between those modes?09:32
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GeneralAntillesqwerty12, can you backport m-vo's recent modifications to the Fremantle branch re Red Pill?09:33
GeneralAntillesi.e., no mode retention09:33
GeneralAntillesShow magic and show non-user/ off by default.09:33
qwerty12oilinki3: red pill lets you install anything (including things outside the user/ section). It can also be an easy way for people to go into a reboot loop. But red pill can offer more useful information.09:33
qwerty12GeneralAntilles: Ah, that one is easy.09:33
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qwerty12Should be just changing 2 lines in settings.cc09:34
oilinki3qwerty12: ah. i have used the red pill, but always wondered what is blue pill.. i suppose blue pill is standard mode?09:35
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qwerty12I'll backport "Make red-pill mode non-permanent by default.". But I was going to cry as I was doing it until I saw: "* src/ (load_settings): Set red_pill_mode to false unless it is permanent."09:38
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GeneralAntillesCarman themes are a lot heavier than Canola themes. . . .10:05
Proteousyeah, I had to upgrade from a belt to a pair of suspenders after installing a few10:05
Proteousand re-enforce the pockets of my jeans10:06
Proteouscome on10:06
Proteousthat was funny10:06
GeneralAntillesLittle weak.10:07
* Proteous hangs his head in shame10:07
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aquatixmorning all10:44
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t_s_ohmm, how to list the dependencies of a deb thats not in the repos...10:50
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t_s_oah, dpkg --info10:52
JaffabeMorning, all10:54
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RST38hehlo, hrw, Jaffa10:56
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* lcuk has been at work for 9 minutes and already warcraft talk has reduced my brain capacity by half11:10
GeneralAntillesI'm sorry, lcuk.11:10
lcukyou should be \@/ i am actually here to do stuff but i can feel my life force eeping  out of the back of my head11:10
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_marcell_camel_liu: ping11:12
* RST38h had a WoW fan attack a few days ago. Found lots of weird things.11:13
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Proteoussadly, I to have been playing WoW again11:16
Proteousnew hunter pets sucked me back in11:16
ProteousEVIL BLIZZARD11:16
GeneralAntillesIt's amazing that Blizzard has built such an empire out of some that completely lacks gameplay.11:17
Proteousit's just a fun world to be in11:17
RST38hJudging from what I heard it won't be long until you get to kill Jesus in WoW11:17
glassRST38h: at least he'd stay dead for 3 days11:17
Mikhoi wouldn't say completely, but it's pretty near11:17
RST38hAnd the magi. And the maiden. And probably that donkey too, although he will be a minor boss.11:18
GeneralAntillesI played for about 2 months back when it first came out11:18
Mikhowould that require multiple 40 character raid groups to beat?11:18
GeneralAntillesI might've played more if all my friends hadn't transfered to another server right after I started playing.11:18
GeneralAntillesBizarre game11:19
glassthe endgame is just 40 men nerd ballet repeated week after week...11:20
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t_s_ohrmf, not even running ping will stop the wifi from going down on timeout :(11:22
t_s_oand the video call app can still not hold a setting past reboot...11:22
GeneralAntillesXChat holds timeout.11:23
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, ping.11:27
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: pong12:03
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, can you put fixing the Council blog comments at the very bottom of your very long list of todos?12:03
GeneralAntillesand do you want a bug for that?12:03
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Can you file a bug for that, so I don't forget ;)12:05
t_s_o <- intel has a foot in mouth moment ;)12:06
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RST38hThe Foot in Mouth Disease12:07
GeneralAntillesThanks! :)12:08
GeneralAntillesRST38h, is that, like, with cattle? ;)12:09
RST38hyes, with marketing cattle12:09
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t_s_othe kind that make dollar and euro sounds ;)12:14
* Jaffa likes mvo's response on the idea of having App Mgr a fremantle start12:15
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, somebody should get with him about the community branch.12:26
GeneralAntillesSince you guys seem so gung-ho to get some real coding done. :D12:26
GeneralAntillesWho thinks sjgadsby changed his avatar because of the shirtless comments?12:27
* RST38h does not know what or who sjgadsby is12:28
GeneralAntillesYou're kidding, right?12:30
RST38hjust being selective in memory allocation12:31
RST38hAh. Maemo Bug Jar I know.12:31
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woglindehm remindes me to file a bug about signle sign on with garage and bugtracker accounts12:32
GeneralAntilleswoglinde, don't.12:33
GeneralAntillesIt's already on the appropriate radars12:34
RST38hhas been there for months though...12:34
X-FadeAnd there is already a bug for it too?12:34
woglindehow many seconds I have to wait?12:34
woglindehi x-fade .)12:34
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, 90% sure12:34
aquatixwoglinde: a nine-figure number ;)12:34
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GeneralAntillesThe bug seems kinda unrelated12:36
oilinki3GeneralAntilles: one idea for the community council work. would you be able to organize irc-meeting by application bassis. for example get the people who work with maemo-mapper together in irc in certain time so that others could also share their development ideas etc.?12:38
woglindehm how do I tell scratchbox that it tells dpkg-buildpackage that it provides automake-1.912:40
X-Fadewoglinde: Build-depens on automake-1.9 ?12:41
GeneralAntillesoilinki3, well, I suppose we could12:41
GeneralAntillesbut I don't much see the point12:41
GeneralAntillesIf you've got ideas, either hit the lists or go directly to the authors.12:42
GeneralAntillesMost of them can be reached through their Garage projects12:42
woglindex-fade -> : Using Scratchbox tools to satisfy builddeps12:42
GeneralAntillesor file bugs on the Garage trackers12:42
oilinki3GeneralAntilles: just wonderign if open brainstorming would be beneficial in that way. writing some ideas, which others can top-up or just kill12:43
oilinki3but i guess that could be a bit messy in the irc.12:43
RST38hoilinki3: Don't you think that organizing such a meeting should be done by app author?12:43
aquatixoilinki3: maybe file them as feature in bugzilla?12:43
GeneralAntillesIf you want to do it, get with the authors and do it.12:44
aquatixor enhancement12:44
aquatixand that :)12:44
GeneralAntillesNothing the council really needs to be involved in.12:44
RST38hwell you may still want to put announcements at maemo.org12:44
oilinki3RST38h: yes. better if it would be organised by the app author.12:44
RST38hbut aside from that, not council's job12:44
GeneralAntillesaquatix, 3rd-party applications aren't tracked in Bugzilla yet.12:44
ShadowJK_Is there any way to increase the watchdog timeout.. I'm getting hit by it too often :P12:44
* aquatix -> lunch12:45
GeneralAntilles_marcell_, ping.12:47
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, does that mean you ran through your whole todo list? :D12:48
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: opinion of qgil's answer to my post?12:51
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, positive and unsurprising.12:52
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: No, but suddenly I knew what was wrong ;)12:52
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: generally points a bit to Fremantle development has been in HAF+GTK, not anywhere else :P12:52
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kvkwhen im trying to do im getting error like " No package 'hildon-libs' found ".12:59
RST38hOil <$60 hehe13:00
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johnxwoowoo! just in time for me to pick up driving again :D13:00
RST38hkvk: tried apt-get install hildon-libs ?13:00
RST38hjohnx: Not so fast, Nikkei down to 1982 level =)13:00
johnxdoesn't affect me. I don't invest in stock13:01
johnxyeah, it's cause Yen is way up though13:01
woglinderst yes I read this too13:01
woglindebut vw pushed up with 75%13:02
kvkhow to set HILDON_CFLAGS and HILDON_LIBS path to avoid the need to call pkg-config path??13:02
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RST38hjohnx: it will probably have some effect sooner or later13:02
woglindekvk whats wrong with pkg-config?13:02
johnxRST38h, in fact it's a real nice time to get paid in Yen :)13:02
baabanot knowing what pkg-config is, i suspect :P13:03
kvkRST38h, i have tried that, but it couldn't get package13:03
RST38hjohnx: grr! oh well, I am getting both rur and usd, form different sources...13:03
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RST38hkvk: Do you know, by the way, that the whole autoconf stuff can be avoided? =)13:04
kvkwoglinde, it couldn't get hildon-libs package13:04
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RST38hkvk: The Magic Wand is hidden in this tutorial:
woglindekvk when there are no hildon-libs, then there are no pkg-config stuff for it13:05
RST38hNotice that the first example does not require autoconf13:06
woglindekvk so your manual method will fail too13:06
RST38hgcc -o maemo_hello maemo_hello.c `pkg-config --cflags gtk+-2.0 hildon-1` -ansi -Wall `pkg-config --libs gtk+-2.0 hildon-1`13:06
johnxRST38h, you're right though. That stock chart for the Nikkei doesn't look good at all. Everyone remember to buy Sony CD players and Toyota cars, ya hear?13:06
RST38hjohnx: ...and Sony/Toyota themselves too...13:06
johnxisn't Sony the number one car maker in the world? or is GM still ahead by a little?13:07
RST38hjohnx: I only know that the number one tire maker is LEGO13:07
RST38hThey produce more car tires per year than all other makers combined13:07
RST38hProlly applies to cars too...13:08
kvkRST38h, inside scratchbox it is working fine but on the desktop it is throwing that error13:08
GeneralAntillesToyota has been number one for a while.13:09
kvkwoglinde, then how to install hildon-libs package??13:09
woglindekvk scroll some lines back13:09
Stskeepsjohnx: heh, so the issue is wether to work on stuff like deblet or work on nokia to make maemo more sane and open13:09
RST38hkvk: It is not supposed to work outside scratchbox13:09
woglindethe answer was given, but not from me13:09
GeneralAntillesNokia! Nokia! Nokia!13:10
RST38hHow are you gonna "work on Nokia" gentlemen?13:10
GeneralAntilles9 iron13:10
StskeepsRST38h: help push decent plans and outline ways to go? :P13:10
RST38hDo I smell plastite?13:10
_marcell_GeneralAntilles: pong13:10
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johnxRST38h, frozen trout13:11
RST38hSts: Nokia has completely different plans and goals than the Maemo community13:11
GeneralAntilles_marcell_, any word on getting the latest FIASCO images (RX-48, too) into tablet-dev?13:11
StskeepsRST38h: well, maybe work on "Maemo" as such then13:11
RST38hjohnx: You do know that Nokia's original logo included the Crazy Fish (tm)?13:11
johnxthe one to wallop their competition with, but I think they'll appreciate the irony13:12
_marcell_GeneralAntilles: not much. I have sent an other mail this morning nagging the responsilbe people once again.13:12
RST38hSts: In the end, they have to sell hardware to general public13:12
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StskeepsRST38h: obviously, and that's possible still with having a good open base system13:12
RST38hThat is what their main goal is. Your goals of making Maemo more open, basing it on Debian, replacing UI with generic window manager, etc etc have nothing to do with how Nokia makes money13:12
_marcell_GeneralAntilles: at least the winflasher has the correct images, so that can be used13:12
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GeneralAntilles_marcell_, that's not an answer. :\13:13
GeneralAntillesEr, the Windows flasher, that is.13:13
StskeepsRST38h: oh, i didn't say replace UI with generic window manager, - i don't care what's above UI level13:13
_marcell_I know, and I completely agree with you.13:13
GeneralAntilles_marcell_, anything I can do?13:14
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StskeepsRST38h: and for open source community to get to a decent system for low power low storage/etc will take quite a while else13:14
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Stskeepsand admittedly some things nokia have gotten right13:14
GeneralAntillesRST38h, this is platform level stuff, not UI stuff.13:14
GeneralAntillesMore open platform benefits end users, anyway13:15
GeneralAntillesAs it gives them access to more software.13:15
RST38hGeneral: But they are really ok with whatever platform they have13:15
RST38hAnd they only want THEIR software to work right and be complete13:15
StskeepsRST38h: being able to take apps they know from their <X> other chinese shit device to more quality tablets, is a benefit too13:15
johnxbut the closer they align to upstream the less work they have to do13:15
RST38hSts: Not really. More shitty apps - negative public opinion13:16
RST38hSts: Do remember how Atari 2600 died13:16
johnxI'm sure it's no fun wasting time re-integrating patches into gtk every time they pull a new upstream version to avoid becoming obsolete13:16
RST38hjohnx: I think they consider their main body of platform work DONE and having to sync with the mainstream platform an extra work they do not have to do13:17
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johnxRST38h, and yet they're doing it. look at svn13:17
RST38hjohnx: Isn't Nokia's GTK stuff completely public?13:17
_marcell_GeneralAntilles: I am not sure what could you do. Quim is already aware of the issue and he also started sending mails... I have no idea what is the problem with saying "go ahead"13:17
johnxRST38h, it's public, but forked13:18
johnxRST38h, you either have upstream gtk installed or Nokia's gtk installed13:18
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RST38hjohnx: Is there any solid technical reason for the fork?13:18
johnxRST38h, now: no. 3 years ago: some thin reasons13:19
GeneralAntilles_marcell_, well, anyway, I'm going to start making a racket if it's not fixed reasonably soon.13:19
RST38hthen at least GTK has to be merged with the mainstream13:19
RST38hThis sounds like a reasonable and relatively cheap thing to do13:19
GeneralAntillesRST38h, then why are you arguing?13:19
RST38hBut for the platform stuff (aka "Let us all use debian") I would not get hopes too high13:20
GeneralAntillesI think you're misunderstand our goals.13:20
RST38hGeneral: see above13:20
johnxRST38h, the goal isn't "use debian" it's "be more compatible with debian"13:20
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RST38hjohnx: Any top honcho from nokia will ask you "Why?"13:20
GeneralAntillesReduce the software development overhead for Maemo13:21
GeneralAntillesImprove community relations13:21
Stskeepsmaking them able to devote more time on what really matters on Maemo13:21
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GeneralAntillesMake a wider universe of applications available for Maemo.13:21
johnx^what they said^13:22
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: But realisticly, how many applications would be end-use ready without any change.13:22
Stskeeps- and by not restricting to hildon as well more people can have more use for the tablets13:22
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: And not speaking about power users ;)13:22
lardmanX-Fade: possibly some of the ones in OE13:23
Stskeepsif someone wants to run a flash "today" windows mobile UI like thing, sure, let them13:23
Stskeepsthe platform wills upport it13:23
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I just want to install find-utils. :(13:23
X-FadeSure alignment with debian would be cool, but it is not a perfect solution for everything.13:23
X-Fadedebian has crappy categories too ;)13:23
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, well, it reduces the barrier to porting13:23
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RST38hjohnx: The answer will be "our current platform is good enough, won't be redoing it"13:24
johnxRST38h, actually the answer was quite different13:24
GeneralAntillesThey're already redoing a lot of Fremantle.13:24
X-FadeAnd Debian is very desktop/server oriented. A mobile device is really a different target.13:24
Stskeepsi'm not saying "take all of debian", either13:24
RST38hjohnx: and what was it? was it "cool we are switching to debian tomorrow"?13:24
johnxX-Fade, point well taken13:24
Stskeepsbut yet they did it with maemo originally and look how it turned out?13:25
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JaffaGeneralAntilles/X-Fade: mvo's getting involved in the debtags/section discussion on the "make the category list better" thread on -devel.13:25
johnxRST38h, no, it was "we'll try to align with debian where it makes sense. bug us about specific problems you have."13:25
RST38hjohnx: In other words, it was a polite version of what I suspected :)13:25
L0cutuswhere can i find more info on how to use "dbus-send" for eg, activate a wifi connection on my n800 ?13:25
X-FadeRunning openoffice(for example) on omap3 might work, but if it is really desirable in it's current state....13:25
RST38hjohnx: "we will do stuff as long as it does not cost us"13:25
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vincenzo88Hi all13:26
johnxRST38h, that's all anyone is asking. Just some simple easy things that can only be done by Nokia13:26
X-FadeJaffa: Yeah, but I don't see the gain of debtags. Do I need to click on 'GPS', 'MAP', 'INTERNET' to get a group with maemo-mapper in it? :)13:26
johnxRST38h, like keeping package names aligned with debian, etc13:26
lardmanX-Fade: you can click on any one of those13:27
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X-FadeDebtags is nice to describe an application, not for finding.13:27
GeneralAntillesdebtags aren't a solution in and of themselves13:27
GeneralAntillesNeed to have a nice interface on top.13:27
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* lcuk has never seen the point of not being able to filter the list hitting "map" on the keyboard would filter to all map applicaitons no matter what category they are in13:27
X-Fadelardman: Check the debtags interface for the debian repository. Not sure if that is the way you want to casually find applications.13:27
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lardmanX-Fade: ok13:28
vincenzo88I am a youn French emplyee (and student too) I will start a projet on the new Nokia N810 but i have never program on tablet. Someone can help me to begin ? Thanks13:28
GeneralAntillesAhaa, lcuk.13:28
Stskeepsvincenzo88: there's a huge pdf for development manuao :)13:28
GeneralAntillesJaffa, put that patch on your list.13:28
lardmanvincenzo88: what are you planning on developing?13:29
Stskeeps was what i found :P13:29
lardmanX-Fade: I still like subcategories13:29
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Stskeepsjohnx: think it would be worth anything trying to construct a debian maemo-like platform?13:29
X-Fadelardman: Yes, me too. Although I guess you can fake them using debtags too.13:29
Stskeepsa small one for Proof of concept13:29
vincenzo88Thanks. I have to create a programm to displays video streams from camera IP13:30
johnxStskeeps, so debian based, but with maemo-gtk, busybox, etc?13:30
Stskeepsjohnx: with busybox, maybe upstart, and all that stuff13:30
Stskeepsto indicate what issues there would b13:30
lardmanvincenzo88: you could probably do it all with a scripting language13:30
lardmanvincenzo88: you might look at GStreamer, assuming it is able to decode the stream (mjpeg probably?)13:31
vincenzo88Yes Mjpeg13:31
lardmanvincenzo88: how you wrap the GStreamer elements is up to you - C or Python would be the best bets imo13:31
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lardmando you know any languages?13:32
vincenzo88C, C++13:32
vincenzo88and Qt on Windows13:32
lardmanfine, go with C then13:32
Stskeepsjohnx: i wonder how busybox is performance wise towards bash13:32
vincenzo88Ok i will see that, thanks for your help13:32
lardmanthere's example code at the urls above, show how to use gstreamer from within C and also the Hildon stuff13:33
lardmanvincenzo88: take a look for the camera app example code13:33
melmothvincenzo88: who is the french company interested in maemo ?13:34
vincenzo88Ok thanks lardman13:34
vincenzo88A video security company (sorry for my english)13:34
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lardmanvincenzo88: is applicable13:34
lardmandoes that exist for maemo 4.x?13:35
vincenzo88Ok great link !13:35
lardmanthere's also an app which displays video over IP data iirc13:35
lardmanmelmoth: thanks, couldn't find that one :)13:36
vincenzo88I will study this example code :}13:36
melmothvincenzo88: if you are not familiar with gstreamer, you may want to read about it first.13:37
melmoth :)13:37
vincenzo88Yes i don't know Gstreamer before13:37
lardmanlooks like it's already been done for you ;)13:37
lardmanand I was sure there was a stand alone app too, not just that cgi one13:39
solmumahalardman: this one?
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solmumahai don't think it works on os2008 though13:42
lardmanI thought there was something more utilitarian than that13:43
lardmanand something with source for that matter13:43
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solmumahai got that compiled for 2008 but it didn't work13:43
lardmanoh, does it have source then?13:43
RST38hjohnx: that stuff shouldn't incur any costs, yes. But I thought people asked for more deep synchronization13:44
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solmumahayes, at the garage page13:44
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lardmanah cool13:44
lardmanvincenzo88: there you go then13:45
lardmanvincenzo88: at least you'll have a little bit to do ;)13:45
solmumahagood luck with vlc :p13:45
lardmanwell a different backend could be used I imagine13:45
vincenzo88Yes :p13:46
lcuklardman, morning, has your phone been ringing this morning?
lcukor have you passed the hat onto the general ;)13:48
lardmanI believe that is the General's job13:49
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Stskeepssuihkulokki: debian doesn't have something like docpurge anymore?13:51
* GeneralAntilles takes away lcuk's bandwidth privileges.13:51
johnxRST38h, well some did, I'm sure. Lots of people also want ponies and unicorns. Just not me :)13:52
* Stskeeps runs a minbase debootstrap and sees how much it can be stripped down.13:52
suihkulokkiStskeeps: if it's missing, you can package it and I  will sponsor it :)13:52
* lcuk takes away GeneralAntilles's touchscreen privileges13:53
lcukno more stroking the girls of the playboy mansion :P13:53
* suihkulokki notices the internet connection is too laggy to irc, so bbl13:53
* GeneralAntilles has never been a fan of artificial STD-infected women.13:54
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lcukfair enough then - would you prefer to miss out on STD infected rodents in playrat?13:55
StskeepsRST38h: the atari 2600 is interesting.. which brings me to the question why there isn't more erotic apps for maemo13:57
Stskeepsi mean, even my c64 had13:57
RST38hSts: You are just applying your tablet the wrong way.13:57
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RST38hOf course it is one area where thin and classy Apple products really excel13:58
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Stskeepsirc'ing from the loo?13:59
* lcuk is going to make a webbrowser addin with a virtual staple which sits in the middle of the screen13:59
camel_liumelmoth, do you make 'monkey-bubble' successfully under maemo?14:00
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melmothi did not try after i re installed scratchbox again14:02
camel_liuok, I have to try another one.14:03
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* qwerty12 thanks mv-o for good changelogs14:08
t_s_oStskeeps: take a look at "i am free" in app manager ;)14:08
qwerty12That program is the epitome of excitement.14:08
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qwerty12GeneralAntilles: Ok, red pill changes in fremantle *should* be backported to the diablo one.14:16
qwerty12All I need to do is figure out how to get the show legal warning stuff to show in blue pill mode without it crashing >.<14:16
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qwerty12Yep, just tested. Went into red pill mode and restarted app manager and I'm back in blue pill mode.14:21
woglindeqwerty12 thanks for the link with htc, its working now14:22
woglindeI only had to change the device class14:22
qwerty12woglinde: Great news14:22
lcukchicken n bacon club sandwich or just plain ham salad?14:23
* lcuk should have a voting booth on NIT14:23
qwerty12go for both :P14:23
lardmanBLT, I'll have another if you're offering though14:23
lcukheh im not that fat14:23
lardmannot yet ;)14:23
lcukheh lardman, itsn ot a blt, its super blt and includes extra garnish14:23
lardmanmmmm bacon14:23
lardmangarnish just reduces the bacon density14:24
lcuki got shouted at the other night, tracy told me to leave an even amount of bacon14:24
woglinde~lart maemo for providing 6 automake-versions14:24
* infobot farts in maemo's general direction for providing 6 automake-versions14:24
lcukso i left 2 slices and she still wasnt happy14:24
qwerty12woglinde: I like that :P14:24
Stskeepswoglinde: debian isn't really batter..14:24
woglindeno it suckz on the autobuilder14:24
woglindeif I want automake-1.914:25
qwerty12Specify which one you want then14:25
lcukwoglinde knows all about the autobuilder ;)14:25
GeneralAntillesUngh bacon14:25
* GeneralAntilles is hungry.14:25
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lcuki thought it was completely fair to leave 2 rashers - it did what she said and left an even amount, just because there was 12 rashers to begin with is completely not the point14:25
woglindeStskeeps hm I only have my automake-1.10 thats all I need14:25
woglindeon debian14:26
lcukim hungry as well (cant you tell) but its rainin muchly and im a wuss14:26
qwerty12In the South, it's sunny :P14:27
lardmanI'm hungry too and I've just had lunch14:27
lcukmmmm back later - rain stopped14:28
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qwerty12w00t, I'm finished with application manager. Anyone want to test it as well?14:32
qwerty12(g0 on)14:33
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RST38hThe Information Commissioner has ruled against a request to force the BBC to reveal the inner workings of its TV detector vans.14:38
RST38hqwerty: screenshots? =)14:38
aquatixqwerty12: screenshots!14:38
RST38hAnd is it true that your government is snooping around neirbourhoods for working TV sets?14:38
qwerty12RST38h, aquatix: k, wait a second14:38
derfThey tax TVs, don't they?14:39
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qwerty12RST38h: Lol, they advertise that they do and I know one person that was paid a visit...14:39
qwerty12derf: Yep, "Tv Licensing".14:39
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derfThat's where the BBC gets its money.14:39
StskeepsRST38h: TV detectors are useless nowadays - our public television licensing publically admitted that14:39
RST38hBut what if you refuse to let them in?14:39
qwerty12No idea14:39
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Stskeepsin .dk they are not allowed to enter without a court warrant14:40
RST38hSts: that is how it should be in UK as well, no?14:40
aquatixRST38h: i don't think you *have* to let them in14:40
GeneralAntillesTV licensing?14:40
GeneralAntillesThat's AWESOME14:40
Robot101you're allowed to refuse them entrance too, they have to get a police warrant if they want to search against your will14:40
aquatixnot sure though14:40
RST38hGeneral: you didn't know?14:40
GeneralAntillesRST38h, no.14:40
GeneralAntillesThere's enough insanity on this side of the pond14:41
RST38hGeneral: There are REASONS why Orwell was British, you know...14:41
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Robot101they do a lot of gestapo shit though, and essentially accuse everyone who doesn't have a TV license of having a secret TV and being criminals14:41
aquatixtv licensing is mainly because of public tv i think14:41
aquatixwe have it here in the netherlands too14:42
RST38hit is supposed to finance BBC14:42
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StskeepsRST38h: in .dk they do it for homes with 256kbps+ connection too but noone cares..14:42
Stskeeps"media license" (cos the public tv started offering stuff online!)14:43
pupnik810Robot101, haha @ germany14:43
Robot101pupnik810: hm? no this is the UK TV licensing authority14:43
woglindeaquatix yeah but you have the right to decide whats showing  and I lately read14:43
aquatixwoglinde: what do you mean exactly?14:43
Robot101they've actually put up billboards in some towns saying "12 PEOPLE ON $street DO NOT HAVE A TV LICENSE? (are you one of them? there's a $foo penalty for watching TV illegally)"14:44
aquatixRobot101: *sigh*14:44
macouteGeneralAntilles: well, how many free, non-commercial national tv-channels you have?14:44
aquatixit's not that bad here in the NL thanfully14:44
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pupnik810any of you using an external umts dongle on N8x0?  there are not enough open wlans in germany14:44
RST38hRobot101: About a year ago, Microsoft ran an ad campaign in Moscow subway14:44
aquatixthey somehow merged it into other taxes14:44
macoutepupnik810: how about using a phone instead? :o14:44
aquatixso now everyone with sewage or water pays for a tv/radio14:44
qwerty12RST38h, aquatix: (showing Jaffa's grid view patch) & (showing mine & Jaffa's show legal warning toggable patch & red pill changes from fremantle)14:45
RST38hRobot101: blue/green ads with vaguely gay looking office people and a message "I did not know before, but now I know!"14:45
RST38hRobot101: The idea is to make everybody license windows14:45
GeneralAntillesmacoute, around 6.14:45
GeneralAntillesWell, national, 2.14:45
aquatixRST38h: :)14:45
GeneralAntillesLots more local14:45
woglindeaquatix hm I read that there are some associations in which you can discuss and have some influence on what is showing ob public tv14:45
macouteGeneralAntilles: how do they get their money? :o14:45
RST38hRobot101: In just several days, somebody wrote a valid WinXP registration number across all the ads though14:45
aquatixwoglinde: ah, i guess so indeed14:46
Robot101RST38h: lol14:46
GeneralAntillesmacoute, partly from the government, partly from donations.14:46
macouteGeneralAntilles: so you'd have to pay even though you don't watch them?14:46
GeneralAntillesand sponsorships14:46
woglindeaquatix we dont have this here in germany14:46
macouteGeneralAntilles: in taxes, i mean14:46
woglindeotherwise "Musikantenstadl" would be finsished14:46
aquatixwoglinde: not that i know of that association or something :)14:46
GeneralAntillesmacoute, I don't use welfare, either.14:46
GeneralAntillesI pay for that.14:46
* aquatix barely watches the dutch tv14:46
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woglindeaquatix haha14:46
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macouteGeneralAntilles: i mean that if the funding comes from the government, that means the funding comes from you :)14:47
Stskeepsqwerty12: perhaps legal warning thing should be "never show this bloody thing again"?14:47
GeneralAntillesmacoute, what's your point?14:47
qwerty12Stskeeps: hehe, I know, a pointless piece of shit by scared pussies14:47
RST38hqwerty: If I install it, how do I go back to the original one?14:47
macouteGeneralAntilles: that if you want to have free channels, you need to have the tv-license fee or you have to pay it in taxes.14:47
aquatixqwerty12: that's a lot of settings :)14:47
aquatixqwerty12: it's the intention that apps are going to use more meaningful categories right?14:48
qwerty12RST38h: Get it from the ssu repo and use dpkg to install. I'll grab the original from there in a minute.14:48
macouteGeneralAntilles: and if you pay it in your taxes, there is a great possibility that the government gets to influence in the programs they show.14:48
aquatixas atm, i still just use the All button to find stuff14:48
qwerty12aquatix: I hope so, I'm not really listening to that discussion. Same, I use the All button too.14:48
RST38hGeneral: Hey, I pay for welfare and I had regular chance to watch welfare recepients!~14:48
RST38hGeneral: So in a sense, it was like British TV license for me14:49
RST38hqwerty: Ok14:49
aquatixRST38h: :)14:49
RST38hqwerty: Legal warning is not pointless. It is required from Nokia to disclaim all responsibility14:50
GeneralAntillesmacoute, I still don't see what that has to do with vans driving around to make sure people pay their TV licenses.14:50
GeneralAntillesRST38h, it's pointless.14:50
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qwerty12RST38h: My pocket pc never displayed it. And it ran software by microsoft.14:50
RST38hGeneral: Not if you ask Nokia's legal councel14:50
GeneralAntillesYeah, well, they don't live in reality.14:50
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RST38hGeneral: Well, it is all done to keep you safe from accidentally entring their reality14:50
macouteGeneralAntilles: i do. :) if you need to pay that (you have a tv) there should be some control, shouldnt there?14:51
MangoFusionshouldn't the disclaim all responsibility legal notice be in the startup wizard?14:51
macouteGeneralAntilles: they do control your taxes as well14:51
RST38hGeneral: Because once you do, you are gonna exit with much lighter pockets, in the best case14:51
macouteif everyone who has a tv would happily pay their fee, i doubt they would continue driving vans on you neighborhood14:51
GeneralAntillesRight, pointless discussion.14:52
lardmanmacoute: that would feed unemployment though14:53
macoutelardman: that true :)14:53
lardmanperhaps we should be taxed per-TV rather than per-household14:53
lardmanlike car tax14:53
RST38hyea, just make all tvs more expensive14:53
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RST38hthey are already twice expensive inUK than in US...14:54
* aquatix will watch tv on his pc then14:54
lardmanwell the fee is ~£135/year, so it would be pretty expensive14:54
macoutei think that the best way to fund public channels is the tv fee14:54
RST38h135 pounds a year? oh shit14:54
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macouteif it is funded by government, governement gets to decide what we watch.14:54
RST38hIt is like buying BBC a new tv set every year14:55
GeneralAntillesIt's funded by us, actually.14:55
RST38hmacoute: Well, formally BBC has some kind of an independent council14:55
GeneralAntillesWe _are_ the government, despite whatever politicians want you to believe.14:55
aquatixin soviet UK, the government is you!14:55
* qwerty12 makes knives legal14:56
RST38hGeneral: you are not.14:56
RST38hBetter get rid of wrong assumptions now.14:56
lardmanqwerty12: legal? I've got some in my kitchen, am I going to be taken away?14:56
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qwerty12lardman: Yes, you were. But now, you can take them anywhere and do whatever with them.14:57
macoutei don't want day-to-day politics to have any influence in the programs YLE (the BBC of Finland) shows (I mean, it shouldnt be leftish when we have leftish government and so on)14:57
macoute(though YLE is kinda leftish atm too) :)14:57
qwerty12You can only count something as a bbc equivalent if it shows eastenders.14:57
aquatixmacoute: you damn commies ;)14:57
lardmanqwerty12: why would I want to take anything more than a 4" knife anywhere with me anyway?14:58
aquatixqwerty12: oh noes! they showed eastenders here iirc14:58
GeneralAntillesIf you need to cut some meat.14:58
qwerty12lardman: Street shanking14:58
lardmanGeneralAntilles: It's illegal to kill most stuff here14:58
qwerty12aquatix: nice one14:58
lardmanqwerty12: hmm14:58
GeneralAntilleslardman, what if it's already dead?14:58
pupnik810macoute, maybe... massive 5minute lag here ....14:58
aquatixGeneralAntilles: or undead!14:59
lardmanGeneralAntilles: use your teeth - that's what incisors are for isn't it?14:59
aquatixlardman: won't help much against zombies, no would it?14:59
solmumahamacoute: i'd lose yle in a heartbeat if it was possible15:00
lardmanI'd prefer something longer range15:00
GeneralAntillesSeriously. Sounds like a good way to get infected with rage15:00
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lardmangive me a jo any day15:00
aquatixlardman: I... have a Nerf gun?15:00
macoutesolmumaha: so you really think jim or nelonen would be just enough? :D15:00
lardmansounds ideal15:00
* lardman heads off to Spanish class15:00
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RST38hif I can't kill most of the stuff15:00
macoutesolmumaha: i actually value for example last nights program about the elections. didnt see that one from JIM? :)15:00
RST38hthen can I kill at least SOME?15:01
RST38hcan I at least desecrate some plants or something?15:01
solmumahamacoute: well maybe not but i could live without it15:01
macoutesolmumaha: you could live, stupidly :)15:01
solmumahamacoute: they are not worth 200 e / year15:01
macoutesolmumaha: well thats another question. but I value yle areena too15:02
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solmumahai can read the news elsewhere, only thing i would miss would prolly be ice hockey15:02
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solmumahaand that would give me a reason to visit someone15:02
aquatixor watch the stream?15:03
solmumahait's annoying you can't watch commercial channels only without paying for yle which i so rarely watch15:03
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* aquatix thinks that if his gf stopped watching tv, we could as well quit the subscription15:04
qwerty12aquatix: hypnotise into thinking tv is worthless15:05
aquatixwell, there are some series that aren't streamed from their sites, so she watches those live on tv15:05
aquatixalready watches quite a lot online15:05
aquatixbut she dislikes not having subtitles, so she doesn't torrent US series and such15:06
aquatixreminds me15:06
* aquatix has to order some Dr Who dvd boxes15:06
qwerty12Heh, none of us are deaf, but I grew up watching tv with subs and now I can't live w/out them >.<15:06
* RST38h should download some DrWho series15:06
aquatixqwerty12: well, she doesn't want to listen closely and translate from english while all she wants is relax from work15:07
derfI stopped watching the new ones.15:07
derfThey were awful.15:07
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aquatixderf: ah?15:07
* aquatix has to see season 3 and 4 yet15:07
* qwerty12 shoves David Tennant in the retardis and pisses on the retardis and sets fire to it15:07
aquatixand the spin-off15:07
derfSome trick after you've pissed on it.15:08
aquatixqwerty12: hey!15:08
aquatixderf: *g*15:08
GeneralAntillesderf, qwerty12 pisses gasoline15:08
qwerty12Yer, I'll get him to lick it off and then douse it in petrol.15:08
GeneralAntillesdidn't you hear?15:08
aquatixGeneralAntilles: or only a tiny bit ;)15:08
pupnik810aquatix, i was just biking around .nl to see what life there feels like ----15:08
aquatixqwerty12: ...15:08
* RST38h is asking qwerty very very nicely15:08
t_s_ough, what is it with wanting huge, multi-feature programs?15:08
RST38halmost sugarly...15:09
aquatixpupnik810: ah? :)15:09
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derft_s_o: I blame Windows.15:09
RST38hqwerty, what will it take to finally replace those category buttons in app manager with a grid of icons?15:09
RST38hwithout borders, black background, you know...15:09
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JaffaEasy, but where do you get the icons from?15:10
t_s_oderf: was that just a cheap jab at windows, or can you elaborate on it?15:10
aquatixRST38h: well, don't we need pre-defined categories then?15:10
JaffaRST38h: you need a defined list of categories (like what aquatix just said)15:10
RST38hJaffa: No problem, I will steal some from a gtk or kde theme15:10
RST38hJaffa: current list is ok15:10
RST38h+ a default icon for new ones15:10
derfWell, the Unix philsophy is small tools that do only one thing.15:10
t_s_oand that can be stringed together to do large tasks15:10
aquatixt_s_o: maybe because windows suffers from featuritis too?15:10
* Jaffa would rather the category list matched the package view, especially if the package view will contain sub-categories15:11
RST38hI suggest we have icons for each of the existing categories + have 1 extra icon for new category15:11
aquatixthe whole platform generally15:11
derfErgo large multifeature programs must be from some other OS's philsophy.15:11
aquatixa bit like kde ;)15:11
RST38hJaffa: top category list does not have to match package view, but for new users it has ot be catchy15:11
GeneralAntillesRST38h, good luck finding sensible icons.15:11
t_s_oheh, funny enough i use kde on my desktop, but not 4.x (so far)15:12
RST38hGeneral: it is easier than it sounds15:12
GeneralAntillesThat will clearly tell people exactly what's in each category.15:12
JaffaRST38h: true15:12
pupnik810aquatix, 5\315:12
JaffaGeneralAntilles: I still think they should have them.15:12
RST38hGeneral: Because KDE themes already have them premade afaik15:12
lcukthe worst thing about package manager currently is that teeeny tiny little farty downarraow i 100% must hit everytime i want to look down the list.    everything else is fluff15:12
GeneralAntillesBut text shouldn't go away.15:12
t_s_ostill, kde is much more a case of many small parts then having big apps with overlapping features15:12
RST38hYes, I guess texts should just become smaller15:12
JaffaGeneralAntilles: if the packages are based on's menu - Ubuntu and every other distro have /some/ form of icon for them15:12
pupnik810aquatix, the flat landscape+canals feels verry strange :)15:12
aquatixpupnik810: err, that's a 5 out of 3? you liked it here? ;)15:12
aquatixah :)15:13
aquatixyeah, it's an interesting country sight15:13
pupnik810fn key + "the"15:13
aquatixah :)15:13
pupnik810can n8x0 cam do streaming + motion recognition yet?15:14
aquatixthe first time i travelled through hilly land, i couldn't stop watching :)15:14
RST38hI will find icons as soon as I get junior off my hands15:14
pupnik810vgba is truly kickass now....  is video lib ready to share RST38h ?15:16
RST38hit is15:16
RST38hjust need to package, will do it tonight if kicked hard enough15:16
* qwerty12 dropkicks RST38h from Moscow to Vladivostok 15:17
pupnik810no hurry from me15:17
RST38hhey, it is 12 hour flight15:17
t_s_ohmm, zx spectrum in my pocket, there is something weird about that...15:18
aquatixt_s_o: :)15:19
JaffaGeneralAntilles: good blog post - exactly what I was thinking the other day we *cough* should be doing15:19
t_s_ohmm, seeing images of them gives me the feel that i ones played around with a green colored one at some point...15:20
Stskeepsmm, debian base at 87.8m, too big?15:20
solmumahahmm, i really need to get rid of some tablets, anyone interested on 770/n800? :)15:21
Stskeepsi gladly take 770 donations to get deblet on them15:21
GeneralAntillesJaffa, I'm not making any more until somebody else makes one. :P15:21
solmumahaStskeeps: but then i wouldn't have a 770 to put it on15:22
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* qwerty12 has to work out why apt-worker is being anal retentive15:24
JaffaGeneralAntilles: I did a patch which gave you your grid view - and it's been applied :-p15:25
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, then I guess I'll pick on lardman, tim or etrunko.15:25
Stskeepsqwerty12: on tablet.. is busybox replacements symlinks or hardlinks?15:26
JaffaPhew, slopey shouldered that one15:26
Stskeepsto busybox15:26
qwerty12Stskeeps: no idea15:26
qwerty12(And I'm too lazy to check :P)15:26
Stskeepsi have a very interesting observation if i'm right then15:26
Stskeepsqwerty12: installing coreutils in debian when busybox is installed with hardlinks doesn't nuke busybox15:27
GeneralAntilleslardman may be able to dodge it if he kicks in some h-a-m patches15:27
Stskeepsqwerty12: and symlinks is what maemo has15:28
GeneralAntillesetrunko probably gets a pass for Canola b1015:28
GeneralAntillesDon't worry though, only delaying the inevitable. :P15:28
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Stskeepsqwerty12: so if maemo can stop being silly and using symlinks.. :P15:29
qwerty12Stskeeps: I think it's more of a thing with busybox setting coreutils as a conflict15:30
qwerty12because apt-get will then be set to remove busybox and a lot of shit in maemo depends on busybox15:31
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Stskeepsyeah, which is kinda weird though15:31
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Stskeepsit should depend on coreutils instead15:31
qwerty12I just open /var/lib/dpkg/status and remove conflicts as I see fit. I've done that successfully to install procps & debianutils15:31
GeneralAntillesDon't some of the initscripts fail on coreutils?15:31
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Stskeepsthat's kinda fail though15:32
qwerty12yer, but dodgy stuff by maemo requires me to do dodgy stuff to revert it15:32
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qwerty12Easier way is to rebuild busybox without a conflicts line in the deb...15:33
RST38hSee gnome-application-*15:33
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, in response to m-vo not wanting to define the categories at the h-a-m level, what about pulling in a list from
Stskeepsqwerty12: i'm just investigating how to "reconstruct" maemo in a sane way15:34
* GeneralAntilles throws a Time to Blog TODO at etrunko.15:35
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: A list could be held in the repository.15:35
GeneralAntillesPresumably with the one from being the authoritative one.15:35
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GeneralAntillesThe idea seems a bit better if you consider the Downloads integration I'd like to see coded up.15:36
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Yes, we should write up a plan for that too ;)15:36
GeneralAntillesStep 1. Make sure Downloads can beat a snails pace.15:37
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Stskeepshm, jffs2 compressed 100mb debian image, at 41mb15:39
Stskeepswith 199 to spare15:39
Stskeeps(or less?)15:39
qwerty12Planning on flashing it? :P15:39
Stskeepsdid cross my mind15:40
Stskeepsand this is a decently workable image, too15:40
qwerty12If I can get g_serial to work, I'll try it15:40
JaffaGeneralAntilles: I'd been wondering that. Might be a bit too heavyweight, and complex to define - but it's an idea which might be worth further diiscussion if two of us have come up with it15:40
Stskeepshehe.. right now it would be only sane as a chroot image15:40
Stskeepsbut with upstart on top..15:41
Stskeepsand some actual init15:41
qwerty12Ah, maybe not then :P15:41
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Stskeepsqwerty12: but imagine a system where you use unionfs on the flash and extending with the internal SD15:42
GeneralAntillesJaffa, I mean, a bytes-sized text file with a list of valid categories (and icons?)15:42
qwerty12Stskeeps: s/unionfs/aufs :P15:42
Stskeepsqwerty12: or that yeah15:42
GeneralAntillesWouldn't be anywhere near the weight of the Packages file.15:42
Stskeepsqwerty12: how does it handle deleting files though?15:43
qwerty12Stskeeps: unionfs requires a custom kernel. The aufs module I did insmod's successfully on any 2.6.21-omap1 kernel15:43
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* lcuk soundsm ore northern than ever15:43
qwerty12Stskeeps: Not sure. I still haven't got around to repartitioning my 1gb to ext315:43
GeneralAntillesmilhouse, "Applications"? Seriously? :P15:44
Stskeepsqwerty12: remember offhand how big the rootfs partition is?15:44
Stskeepson diablo15:45
qwerty12Stskeeps: 255488 blocks15:45
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lcukdoesnt that segfault?    4+2+0.09-256   (roughly)15:46
GeneralAntillesqwerty12 rushed my reply15:47
qwerty12That's nice15:47
Stskeepsqwerty12: blocks of what size? :>15:47
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qwerty12Stskeeps: blocks :P. I don't have much info here :p15:48
GeneralAntillesWell, we've got 256MB to work with, right?15:48
GeneralAntillesThe initfs partition is 4MB?15:49
GeneralAntillesThe kernel partition is 2MB?15:49
GeneralAntillesNOLO and config make up somwhere in the range of 5-15KB, right?15:49
qwerty12Stskeeps: 255488 blocks in kb, just realised it now >.<15:49
GeneralAntillesAdd that up, and subtract it from 256MB15:49
GeneralAntillesThere's your answer15:49
Stskeepsso we should go towards approx 250 mb, ideally stuff to spare :P15:50
johnx_remember jffs2 compression :)15:50
Stskeepsyeah, i think i enabled it15:51
JaffaGeneralAntilles: ...and i18n versions for all supported languages, and extended descriptions15:51
johnx_sorry, jumped in halfway :/15:51
GeneralAntillesJaffa, so maybe a few KB?15:51
Stskeepsjohnx_: got a 41mb image for debian system with coreutils + some busybox replacements15:54
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Stskeepsquite minimal, no init and stuff (yet) though15:54
johnx_sounds good15:55
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Stskeepsjohnx: i'm just wondering if it's more sane to try with ubuntu arm packages to make things easier :P15:55
johnxhmm? why is ubuntu more sane??15:56
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Stskeepsjohnx: easier to get to work with upstart possibly15:59
Stskeepsbut then again i might be wrong15:59
johnxwell easier to get working with upstart probably15:59
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painesi am trying to build a debug package of dbus from chinook . i unpacked the tarball and now I am trying to do fakeroot dpkg-buildpackage which fails. then I untarred dbus-1.0.2.tar.gz and tried again and now I see that the patches are not applied. why is that ?16:11
woglindepaines because the patches resides in debian/patches16:12
woglindeand are apllied at debian/rules patch: line16:13
woglindewhen you invokde dpkg-buildpackage16:13
woglindeor debiam/rules patch16:13
woglindeargs debian/rules16:13
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paineswoglinde: i don't get it. cause normaly when you get a debian-sources tarball you just unpack it and you have the sources + debian direcoty and you just call dpkg-buildpackage, patches are applied (etc) and, sources are build and deb's are beeing made.16:18
johnxso you applied the diff.gz that goes with it?16:18
painesbut now for the dbus mamo package after aunpacking i again have a tarball + debian directory which leaves kind of iritated16:18
qwerty12paines: Did you get the diff file as well and was it extracted with dpkg-source -x <whatever>.dsc16:19
painesthere was none16:19
paineslet me check, but iirc there was no diff16:19
johnxyeah, guess you're right. That's odd...16:20
painesthere no diff16:20
johnxis there a reason you're pulling from chinook beta?16:20
woglindepaines they is apt-get source moopackage16:20
woglindeargs the way16:20
woglindepaines if you setup sources.list right16:20
painesjohnx: no, but i cheked for maemo 4.1 and it is the same16:20
johnxpaines, not really, it's several revisions older...16:21
johnxit might not solve the problem, but it's probably worth a try16:22
painesjohnx: no i mean the package from chinook and memo 4.1 look the same aftre unpacking16:22
painesof course the content is different16:22
woglindejohnx I think he means same in "both has tar.gz and patcjes"16:22
johnxwoglinde, yeah, just got it16:22
painesso how wold you guys build that package from source ?16:23
painesapt-source and apt-build ?!?16:23
woglindepaines apt-get source moopackages16:23
woglindedpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot16:23
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painesi see. okay. i have a scratchbox install, amybe it will JUST work, hoefully16:24
painesthanks for helps+tips guys16:24
johnxsure, hope it works16:24
woglindeno prob16:24
qwerty12paines: yep, I just tried it, the patches are being applied16:24
woglindeif the deb-src lines are in sources.list it will work16:24
painesqwerty12: how did you do it ?16:25
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qwerty12paines: apt-get source dbus ; cd dbus-1.0.2 ; dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot . Basically what was said on here :/16:25
woglindehm anyone knows when I do on the nokia xkbcomp -xkm $MYDISPLAY nokia_mo.xkm which license the .xkm file has?16:26
painesokay, then I guess apt-source is doing some magic like applying patches16:26
qwerty12paines: Not at all :)16:26
painesqwerty12: then I have a reason to hate mondays even more16:27
johnxmaybe the chinook beta version is just messed up?16:27
woglindepaines apt-get source gets the original.tar.gz16:27
woglindeand applies the debin changes16:27
qwerty12paines: Heh. If you just need a straight build from the chinook-beta I'd be happy to do it (though I'm in a diablo sdk)16:27
woglindeso let me see if my libnxcl stuff hits the archive16:28
woglindethen qtnx is on the way16:28
qwerty12Cool, I've never tried nx (vnc & xrdp person myself) but I guess, first time for everything :)16:29
painesis it fast ?16:29
woglindeqwerty if you want X-protocoll via grps its the way16:29
qwerty12Heh, I never connect through a phone though it may be useful over wifi.16:30
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woglindehm but you need to do some steps on the server, otherwise you do not have a sane keymap16:31
woglindehm I should put this in to a README file too16:31
qwerty12Well, a clean compile with a diff of my modifications applied stopped apt-worker from killing itself.16:32
Stskeepsjohnx: i might have a bloody interesting thing in a sec..16:33
johnxan interesting bloody thing?16:34
Stskeepsjohnx: ubuntu hasty (from mojo), 35mb jffs2, no docpurge or anything, just simple minbase16:35
johnxpretty neat16:35
Stskeepsfully functional16:35
johnxboots on its own?16:35
Stskeepsit has upstart and all so i guess it would be a workable sys16:35
etrunkoGeneralAntilles: thanks for remembering... I'm trying to contact people about the logo/redesign issue16:36
woglindeqwerty12 do you have a n810?16:36
qwerty12woglinde: N800 only16:36
painesgreat guys. I didn't know that apt-get source would pull and apply the patch. now it builded all fine together with debug packges. MANY THANKS !16:37
qwerty12I've done the following to application manager: . Any more requests?16:37
johnxpaines, it didn't do anything different...16:38
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woglindeqwerty12 hm sorry then qtnx is not useable16:39
qwerty12Ok :)16:39
woglindebecause of the keyboard16:39
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painesjohnx: yeah but I did, cause i thought just downoading the tarball via wget  and building it is enough16:40
vincenzo88Re, someone have the default password to beeing root on maemo OS on N810 ?16:40
infobotroot-access is, like,
woglindepaines this works for debian for over 10 years now16:40
StskeepsStarting Mail Transport Agent (MTA): sendmailmake: Warning: File `Makefile' has modification time 1.2e+09 s in the future16:40
Stskeepswtf really..16:40
Stskeepswhy run a makefile when starting sendmail16:40
johnxpaines, it is. I'm guessing apt-get pulled the latest version, which probably had changes to fix whatever was wrong with the old one you tried to build first16:40
vincenzo88Thanks !16:40
paineswoglinde: :-P16:41
paineswoglinde: now I know how it works16:41
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paineslol. no space left on device when installing. darn mondays.16:45
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woglindehm is there a site where all n810 keyboard layouts are shown in picture?16:50
* GeneralAntilles sets up internet sharing to test #247816:51
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: 38mb (jffs) (87mb unpacked) base ubuntu system.. think this might be interesting? fully optimized for tablet16:54
Stskeepsand has these packages:16:54
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GeneralAntillesProbably interesting to somebody, though not to me.16:55
Stskeeps(i see it as a possible base for a maemo :P)16:56
_berto_who maintains the maemo extras repo ?16:56
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GeneralAntillesHit the mailing list.16:56
GeneralAntilles_berto_, maemo.org16:56
GeneralAntillesContact X-Fade if you need something.16:56
_berto_X-Fade: are you there? :)16:56
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GeneralAntillesqwerty12, I think the settings that stick in Red Pill should just be moved to a Blue Pill prefs dialog.16:57
* RST38h is back16:57
X-Fade_berto_: always.16:57
RST38hqwerty, Jaffa: still here?16:58
GeneralAntillesMaybe make the check for prefs per-pref instead of for the whole thing?16:58
qwerty12GeneralAntilles: I'd like to do that but every time I made an attempt to; h-a-m crashed when changing those settings in blue pill :(16:58
RST38hAnyways, icon themes that contain icons for the app manager:16:59
qwerty12RST38h: Sure, but you know I can't program :P16:59
RST38hGnome Desktop, Tango, Silk, Noia, Nuvola16:59
GeneralAntillesI want these:
qwerty12Ooh, playboy bunny16:59
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qwerty12+1 for Arimaa16:59
* GeneralAntilles chuckles at the attitude in qwerty12's announcement.17:00
qwerty12Hehe, swearing is a habit to me now :/ :P17:00
qwerty12Forgot to upload the diff...17:01
lcukyou are gettin old and forgetful17:01
GeneralAntillesThe "Settings" string needs to change to "Settings..."17:01
qwerty12lcuk: Not like you yet :P17:02
RST38hGeneral: yeek17:02
qwerty12GeneralAntilles: Good point, I think it can be changed in locales. lemme see17:02
RST38hand what software category is supposed to be denoted with a golden rabbit?17:02
lcukat least i know im an old coot, it will make me happy to simply watch you panic :P17:02
qwerty12RST38h: XXX soft17:02
RST38humgh...I do not think we have any in Extras17:03
lcukgive the rabbit a black body and it can be battery apps17:03
GeneralAntillesqwerty12 I still see magic:sys and stuff outside of user/ by default in Red Pill.17:03
qwerty12GeneralAntilles: It's because it's using your old settings file which has that enabled :/17:03
GeneralAntillesAh, right.17:03
GeneralAntillesFair enough.17:03
GeneralAntillesMaybe change it during the postinst?17:04
GeneralAntillesOr maybe just don't worry about it17:04
qwerty12Yep, could be done :). Though I'm not great on sed knowledge.17:04
GeneralAntillesI'm sure m-vo has a plan.17:04
RST38hPoor Paris Hilton is the latest victim of the financial apocalypse which has ripped across our planet, with London clubs offering the talented amateur porn flick performer as little as ¸25k a pop to enhance their premises with her magnetic charms.17:04
RST38hOh the horror17:04
RST38hwhat do you want to do with sed again?17:05
JaffaRST38h: yep, still here17:05
RST38hJaffa: Check the above themes - they have got pretty much all you need17:05
qwerty12RST38h: Replace some lines. I know how to do it but I get a little confused >.<17:06
GeneralAntillesJaffa, any chance you could make the grid more dynamic?17:06
GeneralAntillesIn fullscreen, it looks like I can fit 4 columns.17:06
RST38hif you use icons, you sould be able to fit all categories onto the screen ;)17:07
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, you can probably drop "BitTorrent Client" from the Maemo-Display-Name.17:07
qwerty12It looks cooler though :P17:07
GeneralAntillesYeah, but looking at it in my dock here it says "Transmission" :P17:08
qwerty12I'll do it if I do any more with the source, I can't warrant uploading a new version to the autobuilder with just that change17:08
qwerty12Hehe :P17:08
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GeneralAntillesFair enough17:08
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qwerty12Ok, fixing the Settings should be easy enough, just rebuilding a new version with that fix...17:11
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GeneralAntillesI still feel like I want a Media player-style view changer for h-a-m17:16
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GeneralAntillesMaybe not exactly like that, but toolbar selection would be nice.17:17
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: What'd be better is a flowing set of icons which wraps at the appropriate width, or a GtkTreeView (which I think'd be best, with icons for the categories, but then the code'll be very similar between the category list and the package/sub-category list)17:19
X-FadeAnd if you need to scroll -> thumb scroll bar ;)17:22
GeneralAntillesI'd so rather have a nice flickable list17:23
GeneralAntillesScrollbars suck17:23
X-FadeKinetic scrolling? :)17:23
GeneralAntillesThat's the one thing I just love about the iPhone.17:23
X-FadeUse the widget from mauku?17:23
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GeneralAntillesWorks very much the way my mouse works17:23
GeneralAntillesGotta love that MX Revulotion17:23
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Gotta love that MX Revolution17:24
summatusmentisooh, classy17:24
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lardmanare we still talking about AM?17:28
X-Fadelardman: Yes.17:30
JaffaX-Fade: or just wait for fremantle when everything's going to be drag-to-scroll17:30
* Jaffa doesn't want to end up doing patching on H-A-M which is going to get done anyway with Nokia's own widgets17:31
X-FadeJaffa: Fine by me, but are you sure it will be that way? :)17:31
GeneralAntillesFremantle will have inertial scrolling.17:32
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JaffaX-Fade: Fairly sure: from what ragnar's said, and #2564, and what was talked about at the summit.17:32
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JaffaCertainly, if it's as crap as it is now, I may well leave in a huff ;-)17:33
lardmanIn which case my pet hates are no multi-select for install/remove and reloading the entire list view whenever something changes17:33
X-Fadelardman: multiselect and scrolling, that will be an interesting thing to fix ;)17:34
X-Fadelardman: unless there is some tickbox or 'shopping cart' like behavior.17:34
qwerty12lardman: Let's hope that if multi-selecti is implemented, it's not like the file manager...17:34
lardmanyes, tickbox works well17:34
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lardmanfor example17:35
X-FadeWell, that is a nightmare with your fingers ;)17:36
X-FadeBut I guess if you size it up...17:36
lardmanyes, no need to have the user tick the boxes, they click as usual on the name to select deselect, then just another button to apply changes17:36
JaffaSounds good. Especially with a nice, finger-friendly UI17:39
* GAN800 likes it when two short presses on esc becomes one long press17:40
JaffaAlmost like some kind of app store, or /downloads/, rather than a dpkg17:40
MangoFusionyikes. Those package names are *tiny*!17:41
lardmanyeah, probably got the dpi wrong for the build17:41
MangoFusioni think i'll need a magnifying glass17:41
RST38hJaffa: yesss17:42
qwerty12GAN800: Ok, Settings renamed to Settings... and show magic and show all packages are set to be disabled during postinst...17:42
* Jaffa can't see why we /really/ need when the AM could be it (most of the time)17:42
RST38hJaffa: we still need the site for more extensive information17:42
lardmanJaffa: Agreed, if the AM could pull up a bit of blurb and a screenshot in some view17:43
RST38hscreenshots, download statistrics, ratings, etc etc17:43
lardmancould all be done in the AM still17:43
RST38hdon't discount right away17:43
RST38hlardman: yes, but it is so much easier to do in html17:43
RST38hupdating and improving it in am will be royal pain.17:44
X-FadeAnother idea would be to have a 'local' d.m.o though the webruntime.17:44
lardmanit could be done in html still, allow the AM to open some html for extra blurb17:44
RST38hlet us not involve web runtime :)17:44
X-FadeAnd run the installer only called by mime ;)17:44
RST38hI realy think the ideal would be to have iPhone-like categories icon view at the top and collapsible trees underneath17:45
lardmanRST38h: if we assume it's loaded most of the time anyway then why not? ;)17:45
RST38hlardman: I hope I won't live to that time. =17:46
lardmanRST38h: it would be nice to use though, assuming it was quick enough17:46
lardmanhow is the iphone itunes interface done? that works very nicely17:47
RST38hlardman: whatever it will be, you can be assured that it will be slow and buggy17:47
RST38hwill eat memory too17:47
lardmanRST38h: lol, well we're talking about ideas here, not the end result17:47
lardmanwill use memory, no need to eat it17:47
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RST38hI automatically filter out unrealistic ideas17:48
RST38hotherwise we will ebd up with another browserd17:49
infobotRST38h meant: otherwise we will end up with another browserd17:49
lardmanI'm not saying it's ideal, but if we want something that looks good, and provides the info, and html is the easiest way to provide that info, then adding some sort of html rendering is the way to go17:50
lardmanI don't see that as being overly unrealistic, perhaps not as super quick as people might like, but if it makes people's lives easier (and multi-media richer) then why not17:51
RST38hdoesn't make my life easier if I do not know whether it runs today or decides to crash17:51
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RST38hand that has been my experience with "web environments" on mobile devices so far17:52
lardmanwell that';s a fault in the renderer backend, nothing wrong with the idea ;)17:52
lardmanEach to his/her own, I think pretty is good (and the interesting bit is making it pretty and quick enough)17:53
RST38hYou are like a typical compiler guy, blaming, in succession: 1) other compilers, 2) underlying OS, 3) programmer who write "wrong" programs, 4) CPU his compiler creates code for17:53
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RST38hAll I care about as a user is that this thing is snappy and does nto crash17:54
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RST38hDon't care who is to blame.17:54
lardmanRST38h: if you don't attribute blame then nothing gets done17:54
RST38hlardman: If I avoid known pitfalls, I won't need to attribute blame, at least to the pitfalls I have just avoided17:54
lardmanok, I understand that17:55
lardmanI just assume that if something isn't working properly, people will get round to fixing it if there's some interest in getting it done17:55
RST38hlardman: amusingly, no17:56
RST38hlardman: Just look at Java. Or any of XML standards.17:56
woglindeah nice17:57
GAN800Why not embed browserd?17:57
woglindeqtnx builds fine17:57
lardmanI don't use any of them17:57
GAN800that's what it's there for. . . .17:57
woglindeand should be in extra soon17:57
woglindeaeh extras-devel17:57
RST38hlardman: oh, you should try, just not on the full stomach ;)17:57
RST38hGAN: Embed where?17:57
lardmanRST38h: if I did, and they annoyed me, I'd be motivated to start patching17:57
lardmanRST38h: I mean I have no need for them17:57
RST38hlardman: The amount of crap there is so incredible that you would probably walk away17:58
RST38hlardman: That is why they continue to be what they are17:58
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qwerty12Hrm, seems like the LCARS bug with application manager was fixed. Let me install LCARS to see if I can backport it.18:01
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t_s_onice work on the app manager mod, qwerty12 :)18:18
qwerty12t_s_o: Thanks :). Hopefully mvo can deem it invalid soon with a official release for diablo :)18:19
qwerty12I'll carry on backporting his fixes meanwhile :P18:19
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aquatixqwerty12: btw, that xterm mod was yours right?18:24
qwerty12aquatix: yeah18:24
aquatixqwerty12: it has the same version as the official one18:24
aquatixso the appmgr wants to install that one again18:24
aquatixdon't you have that problem?18:25
qwerty12aquatix: Yeah, I didn't mess with that because nokia really may put out an update. You can edit the deb and change the version number (epoch it with -mod1 or something) or use apt-get pinning18:25
qwerty12Yer, but I ignore it :)18:25
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aquatixheh, kk :)18:25
aquatixit's sometimes convenient to hit `update all' though ;)18:26
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qwerty12I use apt-get upgrade and look at what wants to be updated and then use apt-get install <updated package name> :P18:26
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aquatixfair enough18:27
aquatixi generally hit that blinking orange !18:27
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aquatixor hit the update button in appmgr compulsively ;)18:27
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aquatixanyways, time to go home18:27
aquatix*grin* @
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t_s_ough, dont use a phone on the can, use a handsfree!18:29
aquatixt_s_o: then you have to fish out your bt headset ;)18:30
qwerty12I feel sorry for the guy but I cant help laughing :P18:30
* aquatix neither18:30
aquatixanyways, going home18:30
Fatalnice wording, almost sounds like they say they had to saw his arm clean off18:31
qwerty12The lcars bug is fixed, I'll rebuild the package with a fix in a min:
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* qwerty12 is sorry for sounding like a broken record btw18:34
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KamikaziFreakWho's familiar with the osso-media-server dbus interface?18:37
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pupnikhi - for anyone in germany - debitel has a new great umts contract for 25.50 euro plus an acer aspire one18:46
pupnik<- on new aspire one netbook :)18:46
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pupnikargh, im touching the screen to click on stuff ... :)18:46
qwerty12Hehe, how is it? :)18:47
Proteousgod, the screen has all sorts of fingerprints on it18:48
pupnikdunno yet - it works - like it better than eee so far18:48
pupnikyes, curse this glare screen trend - but i live in dark rooms anyway18:49
pupnikthe best part was i wanted internet NOW.  so i walked into the store and walked out with some nice gear and immediate internet18:49
pupnikand the deal is the best one out atm... afaict ... so anyone in germany, check it out18:50
macouteimmediate internet :O18:50
macoutei have an immediate internet in my mobile phone but maybe thats just us finns :D18:51
macoutei do have an "immediate internet" (in terms of it works as soon as i walk out of the store) at home too18:51
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pupnikgetting a dsl hookup is not immediate.  ordering a umts contract +hardware onlineis not immediate ... so i like this18:54
pupnikof course winxp is hurting like a corrosive lye...18:54
RST38hwhat's wrong with it?18:56
pupnikit just hurts me to use it.  hurts like "the box" in DUNE18:57
RST38hyou are way too sensitive :)18:57
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RST38hafter some thorough cleaning and installing a few apps it feels ok18:58
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pupniki have visited 3 sites now with IE.  wonder if this POS is trojaned zet18:58
RST38hFAR+FireFox+Miranda+WinAmp make it right18:58
pupnikwhat is FAR?18:58
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pupnikcan not google "FAR"18:58
RST38hNorton Commander for Windows18:58
qwerty12Heh, SEFP must be most popular plugin for FAR :>18:59
pupnikoh ok18:59
pupnikty sir18:59
RST38hqwerty: Among other things.18:59
RST38hpupnik: it lets you avoid Windows Explorer18:59
qwerty12RST38h: Type far manager and see what google suggests. 8/10's are Sony Ericsson stuff19:00
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RST38hI am not getting any SE stuff19:00
qwerty12Ah, my bad, I mean as in google suggest :/19:00
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solmumahapupnik: preparing to install debian yet?19:02
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pupnikno... will play with the windows side for a few hours to see what the hardware can do19:07
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pupnikbut gotta admit... the aspire one is a usable device19:07
* Mousey disagrees, they're all EeePC ripoffs19:07
Mouseyhay guys, what's goin' on in here?19:08
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FatalMousey: you're a eeepc!19:08
MouseyFatal: i have one, yah.. my only ubuntu box, everything else is debian19:08
Mouseyoh, except my tablet is maemo19:08
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pupnikdo we have streaming webcam for n8x0 camera yet?  something that can generate mpeg2 stream or smth?19:13
* pupnik is experiencing an extended hsdpa orgasm atm19:13
t_s_oheh, funny, i keep hitting personal menu when i should hit the main menu, and as i have switchonbt in the same place as extras is on the main menu...19:14
qwerty12pupnik: You can generate a mjpeg one :/ :
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pupnikty qwerty1219:18
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pupnikqwerty12: you have the best nickname ever for tab completion19:18
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macoutepupnik: in finland dsl's do work immediately in some parts of the country. and at least in helsinki most of the households are on a tv-cablemodem-internet-dongle which works immediately, too19:19
Fatalu+tab is pretty lonesome aswell19:19
pupniki would love to visit finland soon :)19:19
macouteand getting an umts to work, via a phone or via an umts-dongle should be ready in minutes, hours at max19:19
qwerty12^ +1. Except you'll have to give me some years :P19:19
macoutethough our internets are kinda expensive :/19:20
macoutecompared to sweden, at least19:20
macouteor japan19:20
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solmumahamacoute: maybe in hellsinki19:21
solmumahayou have really forgotten how it is here in the countryside :)19:22
macoutesolmumaha: and joensuu, jyväskylä, lehmo, riihimäki, uusimaa and tampere. at least19:22
macoutethats from elisa.fi19:22
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macouteso we have sonera and local isp's still to check. but youre correct. not (even near) every part of finland gets its adsl's up and running so fast19:23
macouteand where is Lehmo?! :D19:23
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Mouseyanyone know the code for |?19:29
Mouseyis it "bar"?19:29
Mouseycuz "Bar" doesn't work19:29
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mgedminMousey: xev says it's "bar"19:35
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Mouseymgedmin: thanks19:36
Mouseyxev you say!19:36
* Mousey RTFM's19:37
mgedminso, what about x11vnc in extras?19:37
Mouseyis that vnc SERVER?19:37
Mouseythat'd be so hawt19:37
mgedminMousey: xev is a program that shows you details about X events, including the keysym name for keydown events19:37
Mouseymgedmin: thanks19:37
mgedminit's *much* more convenient (well, less inconvenient) to use on a desktop than on a tablet19:37
mgedminalthough I believe there's a port in the tools repository19:37
qwerty12Penguinbait did a wicked x11vnc which I updated for diablo among other things but it was built with dpkg-deb --build so I can't upload it :(19:38
mgedminso, no source package?19:38
qwerty12Nope :(19:38
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qwerty12It's x11vnc trunk with xrdp and it uses a password to connect19:39
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mgedminpassword is nice, but how do you set it?19:39
qwerty12Run a program called vncpassword as the normal tablet user19:40
qwerty12Then when you connect via a vnc viewer or rdesktop, you are asked for that password that you set19:40
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mgedminwhee, that x11vnc package from garage has a bunch of .jar file inside19:46
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mgedminyay vnc for my broken-screen n81019:48
mgedminfor some reason clicking on the app menu doesn't work19:48
qwerty12Yeah, that plugin depends on pressure info...19:49
mgedminbut os2008 no longer differentiates taps from finger presses!19:49
qwerty12You can apt-get source hildon-desktop and modify the application plugin if you want :/19:49
mgedminactually, did it ever do that for the apps menu?19:49
qwerty12Yeah, in OS2007 afaik, you would get a different sized menu19:50
qwerty12depending on what you tapped it with19:50
mgedminI remember that for the window list, but not for the app menu19:50
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qwerty12I could be wrong, I only used OS2007 for 10 mins :P19:50
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mgedminso, is there a "forget all my passwords" option somewhere?19:51
mgedminI'd reflash, but then I wouldn't have ssh + vnc, so the n810 would be completely useless19:51
qwerty12For the browser or virtual keyboard?19:51
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ccookemgedmin: the screen is comepletely broken?19:53
mgedminfor all practical purposes, yes19:53
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Mouseymgedmin: that's happened to me twice19:56
Mouseybut i just got it back from repair yay^_^19:56
mgedminokay, the browser has 'clear all personal data'19:57
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Mouseyso there is a vnc server for maemo, but it has caveats?19:58
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mgedminMousey: yep19:59
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mgedminhmm, the control panel has a 'clear device...' option that sounds intriguing20:00
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qwerty12_N800/etc/osso-cud-scripts contains scripts it will run if you select that20:01
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mgedminidea for x11vnc: map left-click to tap and right-click to finger press20:02
macouteis there a way to distinct them easily?20:02
qwerty12_N800pressure info i guess..20:02
macoutethe size does differ, but does that count?20:03
mgedminapplications are not removed: good20:03
mgedmindocuments are removed20:03
mgedminwhat about ~/.ssh/authorized_keys?20:03
mgedminbecause if I lose that, I'm completely locked out20:03
macoutedoes anyone use modest w/ several mailboxes?20:03
macoutei dont seem to get it working20:03
* Stskeeps continues with his minimal ubuntu maemo20:04
macoutei have the accounts there and it says that updated last five minutes ago, but my testmail doesnt show up there20:04
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mgedminI use modest with 2 accounts20:05
mgedminworks fine20:05
mgedminI find that I need to explicitly hit the refresh icon in the toolbar20:06
mgedmindid the clear device thingy20:06
macoutemgedmin: ive tried that too..20:06
mgedminnow it apparently won't autoconnect to my wifi20:06
Mouseyis there a difference between modest and the stock email program?20:09
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macouteMousey: no20:10
macouteit does load up my messages20:10
macoutebut they arent anywhere20:10
macouteit said loading 1/1700 or so, and asked me to verify the certificate20:11
Mouseyi find mail reading to be cumbersome20:11
macoutebut, no mail, anywhere20:11
macouteMousey: cumbersome?20:11
macouteim not familiar with the word20:11
Mouseyi finally got server side filtering to work, so i don't care about modest's lack of client side filtering, but the app still kinda feels weird to use for mail reading20:11
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lardmanmacoute: awkward20:12
macoutelardman: thanks20:12
lardmanawkward due to large size/shape is the meaning I understand anyway20:12
macoutei too think that all the email-clients ive tried on tablet are plain bad20:12
Mouseyclaws mail is the technically best client i've used, but i detest that it's UI is suited more for mouse/stylus..  i can't use my fingers20:12
macouteand even claws mail have the most annoying feature for such a slow device20:13
Mouseymodest i can use my fingers, but there's UI changes i'd make if I could20:13
macouteopening every message in a completely new window20:13
moontigerthats one of the things that i really dislike about modest20:13
Mouseythat's retarded, yah20:13
moontigerthe ui20:13
macouteis there a client which doesnt do that?20:13
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macouteit takes 4-6 seconds to just CHECK if the message is the one you are looking for20:13
moontigeron a finger friendly tablet there is no easy way to switch between account views20:14
lardmanit's only annoying as there's significant delay associated with new windows, otherwise is does sort of make sense20:14
Mouseymacoute: well there might be a way to configure clawsmail NOT to do that, it has a TON of configuration options.. which i like.20:14
moontigeryou also cant change fonts in the app20:14
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macouteMousey: ive tried searching for it but with no luck so far20:14
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Mouseyyah.. mail seems like it would be such a win on the device20:14
Mouseybut so far the mail apps are just skimming above fail20:15
Mouseygod i wish i could code20:15
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macouteand guys, WHEN is modest checking for new messages on the background and when not?20:15
moontigeri am trying to make some time to start a new mail app project20:15
macoutehow to tell that?20:15
Mouseyor at least had any influence. i know what i'd change to make it useful20:15
moontigera finger friendly client20:15
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macoutei mean, open modest, close it from X, send yourself a message and blue led starts blinking20:15
macoutebut why?20:15
Mouseymoontiger: if you have the skillz, i'd urge you to just change modest's ui to something usable =)20:16
macouteis modest completely open source?20:16
lardmanmacoute: good question about when it's checking, I've been wondering that too20:16
derfI just want a client that handles multiple IMAP folders and doesn't choke on 20,000 messages in a folder.20:16
macoutelardman: they should have a notification applet20:16
moontigerwell that would require the backend not to be a pile of crap code too20:16
moontigerand i dont know that yet20:16
macoutederf: pine? :)20:17
derfI've been using webmail.20:17
derfpine is kind of slow for imap.20:17
macoutei havent seen a imap-client which could do that, derf20:17
macoutemutt then20:17
moontiger20k messages is a bit overkill for one folder no?20:17
derfSeamonkey works just fine, bur, you know, not on a tablet.20:17
macoutedoes it?20:17
derfYes. Search-as-you-type is still fast with that many messages.20:18
macouteand actually, you shouldn have 20,000 messages at all20:18
macoutenot in single or several folders20:18
derfWell, tell people to stop sending them to me.20:18
macouteno, im telling you to delete them :)20:18
derfAre you crazy?20:18
derfThat's how I remember everything.20:18
macoutedo you have all your snail mails in folders?20:18
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macouteor all your receits?20:19
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derfNo, they're in piles scattered around because I'm too lazy to organize them.20:19
* Mousey has all his snail mail in folders.. blames wife20:19
macoutethen why should you have your friend saying 2 and a half years ago "hey man, lets go to a beer!" organized forever?20:19
derfWho said anything about organized?20:20
lardmanmacoute: so you can remember who owes you one?20:20
derf20,000 messages in each folder is not organized.20:20
Mouseyso you can defend your alibi in court?20:20
macoutelardman: good point :)20:20
macoutederf: i think you got the point still20:20
macoutedo you have all your sms:s archived too?20:20
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macouteor recordings of your phone calls? :D20:20
derfOf course not. I don't carry a cell phone.20:20
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derfBut the point is, you're unlikely to change my behavior at this point.20:21
macoutemaybe if you did, you wouldn receive 20,000 mails which choke your client. :)20:21
macoutei know.20:21
derfAnd I will continue to use webmail until someone writes a real client that doesn't suck.20:21
macoutebut from experience i know that users tend to value their email more than it deservers value. i did that myself too20:22
lardmanderf: I have the same problem with my Windows desktop, lots of stuff on it, I have recursive desktop/old_desktop/old_desktop/old_desktop/old_desktop etc :)20:22
derfI fairly regularly need to dig up messages from 2 or 3 years ago.20:22
macoutebut after i lost about 2000 mails (and crying for 2 hours) i realized, that there was really nothing THAT important20:22
macouteand that was my work mail20:22
macoutederf: of course you do, but if you really have some information in your email that is not available anywhere else, you are kinda living on the edge20:23
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derfThat is what automatic backups are for.20:24
macoutebut well20:24
macoutederf: dont worry, im not going to delete your mails. just tried to make you think if they really are so important20:24
macoutebut well, people collect stamps too20:24
derfI wouldn't be crying if they all vanished.20:25
derfBut disk space is cheap.20:25
macoutethats true20:25
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derfAnd I'd rather have them than not.20:25
macoutebut filesystems (and like) suck20:25
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lardmanShall we discuss smoking next? ;)20:26
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macoutelardman: im going now, so cant join :)20:26
macoute(to a cigarette) :)20:26
macoutebut of course, you all could try and convince me not go :D20:27
KamikaziFreakAnyone here know if there's a way to get info out of osso-media-server?  I'm trying to hack together something to play songs with it, but I can't figure out how to tell when the song ends.20:27
lardmanlucky suggestion on my part20:27
derfNah, go right ahead. But of the two "bad" habits, I'd rather collect old e-mails than smoke.20:27
macoutemaybe :920:28
macouteand this is for me
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KamikaziFreakI've been hurting for a decent way to play music ever since I got my 770, about 3 months ago.20:32
lcukKamikaziFreak, just suck it up and order guitar lessons20:32
lcukthats the only real way you will play music20:33
KamikaziFreakHey, I'm working on the harmonica.  It's smaller than the handheld.20:33
lcukbetter battery life as well i bet20:33
KamikaziFreakNah, it's shot.  I've got to put it back in the harmoni-charger after about 25 minutes.20:34
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KamikaziFreakAnd since I haven't found an mp3 decoder compiled to run on a wind instrument yet, I've been trying to make do with the 770.20:35
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KamikaziFreakCurrently I've got a perl script that reads a playlist, and passes each filename over to mplayer.  That works ok, but for some reason mplayer loves to cut off the last 3-5 seconds of every track.20:38
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lardmaninteresting, is that as it used the dsp decoder hack?20:39
lcuksounds a bit off20:39
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lcukwhat happens when you do it manually20:39
lcuklardman : C:\Documents and Settings\Gary\My Documents\oldstuff\older\oldold\old\oldx\old20:39
lardmanlcuk: lol, looks pretty similar20:39
KamikaziFreakSo I'd like to change it over to use osso-media-server via dbus, but I don't know how to tell when the song is done (the current script waits until mplayer exits).20:39
lardmanlcuk: I should go through the 20GB of data in there sometime20:40
KamikaziFreakI'm not sure why mplayer does that.20:40
RST38hbtw, lcuk, ain't you doing all your stuff on the tablet? that did not look like a tablet path20:40
KamikaziFreakWhy it cuts off the end, I mean.20:40
lcuki wriote a program to display an explorer type window which showed folder total sizes - i cleaned up about 100GB in lost iso files - all thats left is small or required20:40
lcukRST38h, i have a desktop still20:41
lcukKamikaziFreak, if you play it manualluy what happens20:41
KamikaziFreaklcuk, what do you mean by "manually"?  Just running mplayer straight from the command line?20:42
lcukjust running mplayer interactively20:42
lcukdoes it still chop off the song20:42
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lcukand does your perl script just push the massive list to mplayer in one gob, or does it wait for mplayer to ocmplete before continuing20:43
KamikaziFreakThere isn't an interactively.  I don't have a frontend installed, except "GMPlauncher", which I never use.  I'm trying that now, though.20:44
lardmanKamikaziFreak: from the command line20:44
KamikaziFreakThe perl script sends one song at a time; the script suspends while it waits for the call to mplayer to end, then goes on and passes the next song in a new instance of the program.20:45
RST38hlcuk: heheh +)20:46
lardmanadd a sleep(1) in between calls?20:46
KamikaziFreakHmm, actually I have two scripts that I use; one to play a playlist, and one to play my whole folder of songs on random...and that one just uses one command with a wildcard for the filenames.20:46
KamikaziFreakI use the random one a lot more.  It may be the only one that has problems.20:46
lcukor you dont miss the last few seconds of an album as much20:47
lcukjust add a sleep of required time to give the system a chance to flush buffers?20:47
lcukheh lard20:47
* lcuk hasnt been reading much recently20:48
KamikaziFreakNo, not sleep.  the "system" command in Perl sends a command to the shell, and waits for that process to end.20:48
lardmantoo dark due to the snow and sleet up North? ;)20:48
RST38hany system that requires you to "use a random time sleep" is broken20:48
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RST38h(ok, except ethernet)20:48
lcukand microsoft access cross process calls20:48
lcuk(but i wouldnt know anything about that)20:48
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lcukoh look, a leaf20:48
lardmanor anything that writes to the Windows registry20:49
lcuki think we just backed up RST38h's hypothosis20:49
KamikaziFreakOk, I think it's just when I pass all the files in a big glob to mplayer that it chops off the ends.20:49
lcukKamikaziFreak,  change your bulk transfer into lots of individual ones20:50
lardmanKamikaziFreak: are you using the dsp decoder hack?20:50
KamikaziFreakWhat's that hack?  I don't know, I've just got some mplayer package.20:51
lardmancan you pastebin the mplayer output when you play something on the command line?20:51
KamikaziFreakDo what now?  What's pastebin?20:51
lardmanI'm just wondering if mplayer forgets that the dsp uses a reasonably large buffer, and resets the dsp before the buffer has been used up20:52
lardmanresets the task, not the dsp that should be20:52
infobot[~pastebin] A "pastebin" is a web-based service where you can paste anything over 3 lines without flooding the channel. Here are links to a few : , , , ,
suihkulokki      SSLL20:53
moontigerderf ... then maybe you wont find a mail client that works for you20:53
moontigerjust saying is all20:53
lcukmy nit got hot today and turned off before end of day20:53
lcukhiya moon20:53
moontigerhey lcuk  :)20:53
lardmanlol, I was thinking hairy palms for a minute there20:54
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lcuki would type a response but i cant see the keyboard20:54
derfmoontiger: As I said, webmail is functional. Far from optimal, but at least I can read my mail with it.20:54
moontigerman im tired today20:54
derfWhich is more than I can say for the built-in client.20:54
KamikaziFreakAs far as passing mplayer all the filenames individually...that's gonna get really tedious for playing back everything on shuffle...I can dump everything into an array and pull random filenames out of it I guess.20:55
moontigerderf, if i get time to try to write a mail client making it work well with 20k emails in an imap folder *wont* be my top priority20:55
lardmanKamikaziFreak: see the top option here:
moontiger<--- teaching an tired :|20:55
derfmoontiger: That's okay. Using your client won't be my top priority.20:55
moontigerhehe :)20:55
moontigerderf, the point is i think the tablet isnt really suited to that kind of load20:56
derfThat's in more than one imap folder, by the way.20:56
moontigeroh well if its organized then it should be possible to make it functional20:56
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derfHalf the imap clients seem to forget that part, too.20:56
KamikaziFreaklardman:  So, you mean use -ac dspmp3 ?20:56
lcuki read that as 20k per folder20:56
moontigerwell imap servers are to blame too20:57
derflcuk: Right. 20k or so each.20:57
lardman|afkKamikaziFreak: no, I was wondering if you were using it (should say when you start mplayer playing); if so that might explain why you lose the end of songs20:57
lardman|afkKamikaziFreak: not a solution, just trying to work out what's happeneing20:57
lcukyou should stop using email20:57
lcukcya lardman20:57
moontigeri have like 500 emails max on my nit20:58
lcukemail clients should display no more than 100 mails in any one folder20:58
lcukand then prevent adding more20:58
moontigeror at least use a virtual list of some sort20:58
derfIf they did that, I would stop using e-mail.20:58
moontigerto page thru a large data set20:58
derfBecause that's just dumb.20:58
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KamikaziFreakYeah, e-mail clients should do whatever the heck you'd like them to do, because it's the computer and your the user.20:59
derfmoontiger: That's what webmail does. It's very cumbersome, but at least it works.20:59
lcuki can barely talk, ive got 4000 unread mails in main folder20:59
moontigermaybe like games programming where you only allow say 500 emails to be downloaded at a time then cache out if newer ones come in20:59
moontigerlike have the ids and titles in the list but the contents are limited to a reasonable number20:59
RST38hlcuk: rm -rf20:59
lcukthats only bandwidth limitations moony21:00
moontigerthat way u wont be trying to store 20k emails on the nit21:00
moontigernot really ... storage is an issue too21:00
derfIt's imap. It's designed not to store things on the client.21:00
moontigerand working memory on the nit21:00
RST38hnit should self-destruct once it reaches 99% builting storage use21:00
lcukrstC:\Documents and Settings\Gary>rm -Rf21:00
lcuk'rm' is not recognized as an internal or external command,21:00
lcukoperable program or batch file.21:00
moontigerright derf but a lot of ppl do download the messages21:00
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RST38hthis will show those suckers how to litter it with emails!21:00
RST38hlcuk: Install Cygnus tools.21:01
derfIt's only about 1.4 GB of mail.21:01
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RST38hlcuk: This way you will be able to finish off your email any time21:01
moontigerbut 20k msgs even in a db with minimal storage per record would be a large amount of memory21:02
lcukive given up, most were notifications that replies arrived, i would just open browser without fishing through mails21:02
KamikaziFreakI've heard a lot of people bash the built-in e-mail client, but it's always worked great for me.21:02
lcuknot really moontiger21:02
derfKamikaziFreak: It couldn't even open my inbox.21:02
derfIt churned at it until it ran out of memory and rebooted the tablet.21:02
moontigeri was thinking to use a sqlite db for backing storage and build a front end that was finger friendly21:03
derfSo, less than optimal user experience.21:03
KamikaziFreakI suppose that would suck.21:03
RST38hbuiltin email client used to suck donkey ass21:03
RST38hit is a bit better now21:03
moontigeri mean really ... talking to a pop / imap server isnt that hard21:03
lcukmoontiger, be our guest21:03
lcukim sure the current client started in exactly the same way21:04
KamikaziFreakYeah, telnet is the way to go for e-mail.  I'd do that, if it worked right with gmail.21:04
moontigerwhen ive moved to madrid next month i will start a simple cmd line version to test out the protocol stuff21:04
KamikaziFreakScrew clients.21:04
lcuklots of companies do21:05
moontigeri was thinking a search interface is the only way to go21:05
moontiger\no list view as such21:05
moontigerapart from "todays emails"21:05
lcukwell thats your bugbear21:05
moontigerjust a progressive search interface21:05
RST38hmoontiger: it is not hard unless you start getting all fancy and multithreaded on it21:06
moontigerwhich of course u need to21:06
lcuki *think* liqbase should be able to handle 20k items21:06
moontigerbut really thats not that hard either21:06
lcukquite easily21:06
RST38hmoontiger: not necessarily ;)21:06
moontigeri used to write games in asm with multiple threads and processors so an email client cant be so hard21:07
KamikaziFreakUse Perl!21:07
RST38hremember that the standard Unix installation is never getting multithreaded on emails21:07
derfAny proper UI supports a list view with an arbitrary number of items.21:07
KamikaziFreakIt's all text!21:07
lcukno KamikaziFreak lets let him code up email in asm21:07
lcukit will be worth it for the lol\21:07
lcukit will be worth it for the lolz21:07
RST38hin fact, standard Unix didnt have thread APIs for years21:08
moontigerim not gojng to code it in asm21:08
moontigeri was just saying ... mutli-threading isnt that hard as a concept21:09
moontigerderf, the screen is small enough that a list containing 20k items would be a pain to scroll thru no?21:10
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lcukwhy painful? unless its standard gtk tiny nobble hitting lists21:10
RST38hmoontiger: one word: deadlock21:11
lcukive just adapted liqase to create 25 sketches per sketch - ive got over 1000 now, lets see..21:11
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derfI've seen very, very few developers that could write multithreaded code correctly.21:11
RST38hgtk will choke on 20k list (see Maemo file manager)21:11
derfIs that because it's doing lots of crap to figure out the appropriate icon for each file, or because it's actually making a GtkWidget for each item?21:12
RST38hprolly the latter21:13
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lcukderf, i multithreaded the loading for sketches in liqbase and it was poorer than my inline variation21:13
derfIn that case, that's just dumb.21:13
RST38hthere are several issues there though21:13
RST38hone is its propensity to scan every single subdirectory of the current one21:13
lcuki think im gonna run out of memory soon21:13
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RST38hsecond is its strange habit of memmapping 130+MB memory21:14
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RST38hthird is the gtk slowness on many entries21:14
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derfI tend not to use the file manager at all, so this is not really an issue to me.21:14
RST38hStill waiting for a decent file manager on maemo: MC comes close but gets broken by Maemo's xterm21:15
RST38hderf: Well every now and then I do have to manage scores of files21:15
nemoRST38h: XFCE4's?21:16
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moontigerRST38h, huh?21:16
RST38hnemo: Not yet ported21:17
lcukwhat happens when app fills memory?21:17
RST38hnemo: You will be the first :)21:17
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RST38hlcuk: gets killed afaik21:17
RST38hmoontiger: what?21:17
lcuk 1481 root     RW      118M  1478 81.3 95.8 liqbase21:17
moontigerRST38h, deadlock21:17
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RST38hlcuk: is it actual or just requested?21:17
RST38hlcuk: see with htop21:17
lcukactualy, ive just set it the task of loading 25k sketches21:18
KamikaziFreakRST38h: I felt like my 770 was crippled until I found a package for MC.  What doesn't work about it?  It seems to work fine for me.21:18
lcuknot found21:18
RST38hbtw those 81.3/95.8 numbers are unhealthy too21:18
lcukscrolling is still fluid21:18
lcukits loading21:18
RST38hKamikaze: No mouse support and constantly showing on-screen keyboard makes it jump21:18
nemoRST38h: really. that's odd.21:19
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nemoRST38h: you'd think XFCE4 would be a natural for low mem env21:19
RST38hmoontiger: Programming multithreaded apps requires intricate knowledge of two things: deadlocks and race conditions21:19
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nemoesp being all gtk to avoid loading 2 sets of libs21:19
moontigerRST38h, i know21:19
RST38hmoontiger: while threads themselves are easy, avoiding deadlocks in a complex multithreaded program which often waits on network resources is a bitch21:20
moontigerRST38h, ummmmmmm yes21:20
moontigerthats why they invented thread pools21:20
KamikaziFreakRST38h:  Do you use the xterm that gives you a sidebar?  I have "Enter" on the right side, and set commands based on file extensions or whatever.  No keyboard popping up needed.21:20
RST38hmoontiger: If you do not use threads and just stick to the normal producer/consumer model with processes (fork() etc), you will be much safer21:20
moontigerahhhhhhhhh right21:20
RST38hKamikaze: oh, no, I am using the standard one =(21:21
moontigerthnx yes21:21
moontigerso its true that threading isnt a stable under linux as processes?21:21
KamikaziFreakPgUP/PgDOWN/Enter.  Those are the most useful things ever to add to it.21:21
moontigerwindows uses threads very well21:21
RST38hmoontiger: linux kernel threads *are* stripped down processes21:21
RST38hmoontiger: but they are stable21:21
KamikaziFreakRST38h:  Get it.  xterm-advance, or whatever it's called.21:22
RST38hmoontiger: it is what you DO with threads that may cause problems, Linux or Windows, does not matter21:22
moontigerso why not use them then if they are lighter weight processes and stable?21:22
RST38hKamikaze: Tried it - the sidebar thing is broken, not showing labels right21:22
RST38hmoontiger: you do not get data insulation21:22
RST38hand your file handles are shared between threads21:22
moontigerRST38h, i appreciate the advice but i have been programming for a little while now and i do know some of the things u are telling me :)21:22
RST38hsockets too21:23
RST38hmoontiger: Good. Now imagine a random Indian learning about threads and using them in the project you are managing21:23
RST38hmoontiger: Scary, yes? 8)21:23
lcukliqbase hit a wall:  1481 root     RW      196M  1478 11.7158.1 liqbase      its starting to get slower21:23
moontigerRST38h, nationality aside yes i understand :)21:23
RST38hmootiger: And THAT is why I always suggest 1) using full processes and 2) use straightforward producer consumer model21:24
derfI just stopped doing things that required threading.21:25
derfIt's made me a lot happier.21:25
RST38hmootiger: This does nt let your Indians trash stuff and cause deadlocks21:25
RST38hderf: There is exactly 1 (one) thing that requires threading in Linux21:25
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macouteRST38h: and how well does your programs scale to several processors?21:25
moontigerRST38h, but if its just me and i know what im doing i can use threads and get a performance boost21:25
RST38hderf: It is called select() :)21:25
derfOr poll().21:26
RST38hderf: Yep21:26
RST38hmacoute: Same or better than multithreaded ones as they do not need to share address space21:26
RST38hmoontiger: And if your app deadlocks, you blame it on the kernel! =)21:26
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derfNah, you can still deadlock independent processes pretty easily.21:27
* lcuk is pleased liqbase can handle that much data21:27
derfDepending on your communication mechanism.21:27
RST38hderf: Yes, but lack of easy communication mechanism constrains your inner Indian making him think twice :021:30
derfYou obviously haven't seen mediocre programmers try to use sockets.21:31
derfI assure you, there's no thinking involved.21:31
RST38hI worked as a TA for a while21:32
RST38hSo, I have seen mediocre programmers do al kinds of things =)21:32
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moontigerRST38h, not that it makes me a good programmer by default but i have been coding for 24yrs now21:38
moontigerso i have done a few things in my time :)21:38
RST38hmoontiger: But not everyone is like you21:39
RST38hThat is the problem.21:39
moontigeri know21:39
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moontigerand im damn sure i dont know everything21:39
moontigerso advice and help is always appreciated and taken in21:39
* RST38h is always following the KISS principle21:40
moontigerme too21:40
RST38hor, as Russians put it, "90% of manufacturing operations can be done with a hammer and a file"21:41
macouteKeep Innovating Supercool Systems21:41
RST38hmacout: Keep It Simple Stupid21:41
macouteRST38h: i know :)21:41
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XTLRST38h: That tends to take time and muscle, though21:45
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* XTL is a big fan of small sharp tools ideas21:46
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BilawHello all!22:07
BilawI know I am a tiny wee bit off topic, but I can't find help from mojo... Here goes: would anyone like to tell me how to install mojo on my N810 (my PC runs Ubuntu)??22:09
StskeepsBilaw: a lot of pain and tears22:10
Bilawto this extent, Stskeeps?22:10
Stskeepsyou'd probably want to look at deblet instead22:10
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Stskeepssince it's more user oriented22:11
Stskeepsthat saying, it's not impossible to make mojo run.22:11
BilawI think it was you (or was it johnx?) who suggested deblet, only an internet search did not return anything...22:11
Stskeepsserver was down so22:11
BilawAs you can gather, I am not exactly a computer geek. But I know what a shell is, so I figured I could manage...22:12
Bilaw(I'll go look up this site, thank you!)22:12
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Stskeepswell, anything but maemo on tablets is bit black magic :)22:13
BilawWow. But I don't like maemo very much...22:13
StskeepsUI or system?22:13
RST38hOh, yes, Yes, YESSSS:
Stskeepsfame or? :P22:14
BilawEr... in my case, I mean both...22:14
Bilaw""There is -no- warranty. This may blow up your MMC, steal your wife or cause doomsday to come around""22:14
Bilaw--- I like that!22:15
Stskeepsfine, give me your wife22:15
RST38hthe wife part or the doomsday part?22:15
BilawI love it all: chaos may ensue. That's me!22:15
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Bilaw(I am the type of guy who can hardly resist shoving his suits in the washing machine, juste for the sake of it, you see...)22:16
Bilaw(so imagine w/ computers!)22:16
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* Stskeeps is playing some more with mojo/hasty in jffs.
Stskeepsi'm really amazed what you can squeeze into 69m flash22:16
Stskeeps(this is without any sort of space savers beyond a minimal ubuntu base)22:18
RST38hgzipped binaries I reckon?22:18
Stskeepsjffs2 compressed, yeah22:18
Stskeeps150m uncompressed22:19
melmothJust wondering...If i had a webcam, could i use it within scratchbox ?22:20
melmothto "emulate" the n810 cam ?22:20
Stskeepsmaybe, if /dev is pulled over to sb22:20
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Bilaw... I can now see why you favour Deblet over mojo, Stskeeps!!22:41
Stskeepsi don't favour either over the other :P22:43
RST38hOk, who wanted EMUlib source code? Pupnik?22:43
Stskeepseven though i work on deblet22:43
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BilawDamn it! By the look of it, I need a wifi connection running while installing. I don't. So I can't try it right away...22:47
Stskeepsaye.. you can disable the check though, if you get net in other ways22:48
Stskeeps(look in /usr/libexec/deblet/deblet_installer.py22:48
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Bilaw(hang on, is this a directory I shall see when I have installed the whole thing?)22:50
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Stskeepswhen you've installed the installer22:53
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zapN800 and N810 both use same audio code - TLV320AIC33?22:53
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qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, that reminds me, i never gave you the source for that start-internet program, i'll dig it out for you tomorrow22:54
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zapIs there a better schematics for N8xx than the one I have? Mine is very blurry and starts at page 10-422:59
qwerty12_N800zap, n810 ones are in good quality22:59
zapwhere do I get them? :)22:59
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qwerty12_N800hehe... give me a min if someone cannot answer you faster :p23:00
RST38hzap: You wanted frame buffer source code?23:00
* Stskeeps wonders what he can use his 69m jffs image for, if anything23:00
zapqwerty12_N800: I'll be very grateful23:00
zapRST38h: no, for now I'm just interested emulators to be faster :)23:01
zapdo you use pixel doubling and other tricks?23:01
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qwerty12_N800zap, sure. lemme get the links :)23:01
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BilawStskeeps: I am going to leave my attempt at installing deblet for the time being. There are things I -- not surprisingly -- do not understand. I'll try and catch you earlier on thur or friday, if you're willing to help!23:12
lcukbilaw, welcome to the club, ive been in a state of not understandedness for the last 9 months23:13
Bilawhopefully lcuk youre not as dense as I am when it comes to computers (and they call me "geek" at the office! What a joke!)!23:13
Bilaw(simply because I KNOW how to use macros on Word(R)!)23:15
Bilaw-- have you been trying to install deblet too then, lcuk?23:15
lcukno, before this year i knew nothing about linux itself (barring ooohing and ahhhing at livecds and the like)23:16
lcuki still know sweet FA about it23:16
* lcuk waves his hands about23:16
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* lcuk couldnt fight his way out of a root console with FULL man support23:17
melmothdont worry, you r tasted it. chance are you re already an addict and dont even realise it :)23:17
lcukthough those words surprisingly have meaning now23:17
* Bilaw sympathises terribly w/ lcuk23:17
lcukmelmoth :) when i understand it THEN ill rebuild it23:18
BilawIf were talking linux, I s'ppose I am already an addict. But I tried Debian and could not make myself understood by it. So I went back to nice Ubuntu...23:18
Bilaw-- now if were talking maemo/N8x0, that's another story...23:19
* qwerty12_N800 needs to recompile uptimed and remake that quick script to upload my records to me webspace :/23:19
lcukqwerty12_N800, dont you mean so you hack it not to show the times you reboot :P23:19
qwerty12_N800lcuk, I'm actually saintly honest in that regard :p23:20
lcukbilaw, i dunno - i could probably figure out whats goin on inside another debian system now23:20
BilawI'm off, gentlemen (and gentlewomen?). It was good to talk. I'll see you around.23:20
lcukbilaw, always good to talk :) have fun23:21
BilawAnd you!23:21
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* lcuk needs front facing camera.23:22
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qwerty12_N800lcuk, for the liqbase camera rotation stuff?23:24
lcukfor liqbase, the camera rotation bug is secondary23:24
lcuki need to see something and how something will work before i can advance something23:24
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lcukand its a bit fecked up rotating 810 round doin what i want and flippin it back23:24
* lcuk has a solution though :)23:25
lcukqwerty12_N800, did you see the actual berlin presentation i did?23:28
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qwerty12_N800lcuk, no, i haven't seen it yet :(23:28
lcukits at the top of now
lcukgets out most of what i am doing with lb :)23:29
lcukand the bug i found23:29
qwerty12_N800ok, *fingers crossed* that flash will play it good :)23:29
lcukoh yeah you are on 80023:30
lcukget on a big machine23:30
aquatixlcuk: the conference presentation?23:30
qwerty12_N800i can't :.23:30
aquatixthat one was nice :)23:30
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* lcuk kicks his apple bt keyboard for presisng space the whole way through presenetation23:31
aquatixah :)23:31
aquatixwas that why you had issues starting it?23:31
lcukyes :)23:31
aquatixheh :)23:31
lcukstars was meant to show until a key is pressed23:31
lcukit flummoxed me23:31
aquatixi noticed :)23:32
aquatixthankfully it's rule number one of conference presentations23:32
aquatixso noone blames you23:32
* aquatix is gone again23:33
aquatixttyl :)23:33
* qwerty12_N800 sees if there is python app or something to grab vimeo videos :)23:33
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lcukqwerty12_N800, you can grab the native original feed i believe23:37
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qwerty12_N80Ostupid tablet...23:40
qwerty12_N80Olcuk, yeah, i downloaded the flv, mplayer rc2 should play it fine :)23:40
lcuknot stupid tablet, we could really do with an intermediate binary to intercept all flash and block everything properly until clicked.  but this same binary middleman can also watch for specific flash players and forward media directly to mplayer ;)23:41
RST38h*or* we could have properly implemented flash player23:42
lcuki would still prefer a middleman23:42
RST38hthat does not flood the system with gettimeofday() calls23:42
lcuki want clicktoplay for all flash media23:43
lcukon a device like this it should be the default23:43
qwerty12_N80ORST38h, still not acknowledged?23:43
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RST38hqwerty: Well, it appears to be the bug that hangs browserd23:44
RST38hqwerty: You probably remember that I was directly told by timeless to shut up about reconsidering browserd usefulness23:44
RST38hThe guy threatened to ban me from bugzilla basically23:45
qwerty12_N80Oyeah, i remember :\23:45
RST38hAs to flash player, nobody seems to be responsible for it, but if you want to look further into this bug, it is here:
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qwerty12_N80Olcuk, mplayer options -framedrop -lavdopts skiploopfilter=all  and i'm getting something watchable finally :p23:50
lcukheh qwerty12_N80O23:51
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