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| * BugBlue off 2 bed | 00:05 | |
| BugBlue | AstralStorm: I do have a BT one that does charge over USB... a real cheap one... can tell you more tomorrow | 00:05 |
|---|---|---|
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| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: i so just did a good old fashioned community suicide by this post probably | 00:07 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 00:07 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: but let's see how the community reacts & quim, - i think i may have done a bit too much of conciousness streaming there | 00:09 |
| ShadowJK_ | link? | 00:10 |
| Stskeeps | not on archive yet | 00:10 |
| Stskeeps | sec | 00:10 |
| Stskeeps | wtf | 00:11 |
| qwerty12_N800 | not in my inbox :p | 00:11 |
| Stskeeps | .. yeah, just remembered to actually confirm my subscription | 00:12 |
| Stskeeps | there, http://lists.maemo.org/pipermail//maemo-developers/2008-October/035409.html | 00:13 |
| Stskeeps | im off to bed else gf will kill me | 00:15 |
| Stskeeps | bbl | 00:15 |
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| ShadowJK_ | There's one big thing that determined winners and losers in the explosion of personal computers that happened throughout the 80s, the systems with the most programs won :P | 00:20 |
| Jaffa | True; but which came first ;-) | 00:22 |
| Jaffa | i.e. which is cause; and which is effect | 00:22 |
| * Jaffa sleeps. | 00:22 | |
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| AstralStorm | as for the GPS recv. it has to be small, esp. thin | 00:23 |
| AstralStorm | thicker than n810 = nono | 00:23 |
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| orangey | how can I debug the SIP software? | 01:02 |
| orangey | I'm getting a crazy number of incomplete calls | 01:02 |
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| Mousey | ^_^ | 01:24 |
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| TokyoDan | Mornin' everybody. What shells are used in N810 user and root accounts? Bourne, bash, korn? | 01:29 |
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| orangey | TokyoDan: good question. | 01:33 |
| orangey | TokyoDan: why not just busybox? | 01:34 |
| orangey | is that a shell? | 01:34 |
| melmoth | /etc/password says /bin/sh , it belong to busybox | 01:34 |
| l7 | doesn't the n810 use ash as the shell? | 01:35 |
| l7 | that's what the n800 uses and the OS should be the same | 01:35 |
| AstralStorm | wrong | 01:37 |
| AstralStorm | they both use busybox sh of sorts | 01:37 |
| AstralStorm | it's not exactly full ash | 01:37 |
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| TokyoDan | If both root and user use busybox sh then why are the prompts different? | 01:42 |
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| orangey | different in what sense? | 01:43 |
| orangey | # vs $? | 01:43 |
| orangey | that's standard distinction between root and non-root | 01:43 |
| TokyoDan | Yes. and isn't "sh" bourne? so maybe busybox is a clone. | 01:43 |
| orangey | sh can be anything | 01:43 |
| TokyoDan | That's all? | 01:43 |
| TokyoDan | I thought it was standardized that sh is the brompt for bourne. | 01:44 |
| orangey | not at all. | 01:44 |
| orangey | sh is probably the least standard. | 01:44 |
| orangey | and will generally be hijacked by whatever the default shell is | 01:44 |
| orangey | perhaps at some point it was. | 01:44 |
| orangey | $ ls -l /bin/sh | 01:44 |
| orangey | lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 4 2006-09-09 19:28 /bin/sh -> dash | 01:44 |
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| orangey | and that's on ubuntu! | 01:44 |
| TokyoDan | ok, mine is /bin/sh -> busybox on my n810 | 01:46 |
| TokyoDan | Thanks. | 01:46 |
| orangey | np | 01:46 |
| TokyoDan | Now I wonder where the environments variables are kept. | 01:46 |
| orangey | basically what we we were saying | 01:46 |
| orangey | the variables are generally kept in .profile | 01:46 |
| orangey | not sure specifically for busybox | 01:47 |
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| TokyoDan | Well now I know what to search for when looking for shell script syntax/commands. | 01:48 |
| orangey | exactly! | 01:48 |
| orangey | there are subtle differences that can get infuriating if you don't realize that busybox =/= bash | 01:48 |
| TokyoDan | supposedly the busybox guys hang out at #uclibc | 01:49 |
| orangey | no idea | 01:50 |
| TokyoDan | Well I've been playing with the $PATH variable in .profile so that I can run an executable Python script from my home directory but no matter what I do I get command not found errors. | 01:50 |
| orangey | but I would doubt you need to ask them for much unless you're doing some pretty low-level coding | 01:50 |
| TokyoDan | Yeah, the wiki is best. | 01:51 |
| orangey | I have to head out, but good luck with it. if you make sure that the environmental variables work, then just google around to see. | 01:51 |
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| orangey | it may be .profile, .bashrc or something else. | 01:51 |
| orangey | good luck! | 01:52 |
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| TokyoDan | Thanks | 01:52 |
| melmoth | Tonnerre: are you sure the python script start with the path to python (#!/usr/bin/python2.5) ? | 01:53 |
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| TokyoDan | Hello melmoth. just go back from breakfast. Yes. my script starts with that. | 02:53 |
| TokyoDan | My script Hello1.py is in my current directory, I type Hello1.py at the prompt and i get: "-sh: Hello1.py: not fount | 02:56 |
| TokyoDan | I got it. It runs if i type ./Hello1.py | 02:59 |
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| hellwolf | Now I know why avahi-daemon didn't start on my diablo system now, in rc2.d it should be started after some other things, I now put it to S99avahi-daemon, it starts now | 03:13 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, community suicide? Why? That all sounds a lot like what most people would like to see. | 03:37 |
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| orangey | hey all. | 04:03 |
| orangey | I just installed scratchbox. | 04:03 |
| orangey | but I can't seem to do much with the armel version | 04:03 |
| orangey | no network, etc. | 04:03 |
| orangey | how do I set it up so it looks just like my n810? | 04:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | Don't | 04:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | The testing environment is pointless and a waste of time. | 04:04 |
| GeneralAntilles | Just test on the tablet. | 04:04 |
| orangey | GeneralAntilles: well, I am trying to do this for developers sans tablet. | 04:06 |
| orangey | for example, I have a bug I'm trying to work on. | 04:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | The "emulation" really isn't emulation | 04:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | it's about as fake of a tablet environment as you can get | 04:07 |
| orangey | bug's here: https://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3824 | 04:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | You don't set it up like the tablet. | 04:07 |
| orangey | The Callcentric people are willing to play. | 04:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's emulation being worked on | 04:07 |
| GeneralAntilles | but it's not ready yet | 04:08 |
| orangey | and I want them to have something to call from instead of always asking me to make the calls, etc. | 04:08 |
| orangey | GeneralAntilles: is it in any way possible just to get rtcomm on there and working to make test calls? | 04:08 |
| orangey | i.e., sound and such? | 04:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | It sounds like a NAT issue to me. | 04:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ha | 04:08 |
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| GeneralAntilles | No, there's no chance of that working. | 04:08 |
| orangey | GeneralAntilles: that's unfortunate. | 04:08 |
| GeneralAntilles | Eh, it is what it si | 04:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | s/si/is/ | 04:09 |
| infobot | GeneralAntilles meant: Eh, it is what it is | 04:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Pick up a used N800. | 04:09 |
| orangey | GeneralAntilles: anyhow: You're saying it's probably a NAT issue? | 04:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | Almost always is with SIP weirdness. | 04:09 |
| orangey | GeneralAntilles: how do I debug it further? Because my calls work with other services. | 04:09 |
| orangey | and, in fact, my calls work with Callcentric with *other numbers* | 04:09 |
| orangey | GeneralAntilles: Anyhow, I'm motivated to get this working, since Callcentric is my primary phone number, and the current arrangement is a complete nuissance (I have to use Click2Dial) | 04:12 |
| orangey | if you wish to play with it / test it / whatnot, I'll gladly put some money on your callcentric account | 04:12 |
| orangey | For that matter, is there such a thing as maemo bounties? | 04:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | On Garage | 04:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | I've only ever heard of one being paid out. | 04:13 |
| orangey | Where would they go? | 04:14 |
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| GeneralAntilles | http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=236689 | 04:54 |
| GeneralAntilles | Anybody else find that as bizarre as me? | 04:55 |
| orangey | GeneralAntilles: is he talking about an aftermarket protector? | 05:00 |
| orangey | I would guard a bit of the guy's dignity. | 05:00 |
| orangey | he has an n810 with a bad screen. | 05:00 |
| orangey | so long as you can prove it's otherwise OK, who cares? | 05:00 |
| GeneralAntilles | Presumably the factory shipping protector. | 05:00 |
| orangey | what factory shipping protector? | 05:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | The one that Nokia ships them with. | 05:01 |
| orangey | you mean we're supposed to keep that on? | 05:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | No | 05:01 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's a shipping protector | 05:01 |
| orangey | oooooh. | 05:01 |
| orangey | I see what he's saying. | 05:01 |
| orangey | yeah, he's lying. | 05:01 |
| orangey | it's unlikely stolen. | 05:01 |
| orangey | but probably he did something to it | 05:01 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Or just stupid | 05:02 |
| GeneralAntilles | In which case, he can save himself some money by sending it to Nokia for repair. | 05:02 |
| ShadowJK_ | The outermost layer of plastic on the screen is kinda loose on teh edges so I wouldn't be surprised if someone mistook it for shipping protector... | 05:02 |
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| GeneralAntilles | You can't peel the touch layer off. | 05:03 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's integrated with the LCD. | 05:03 |
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| orangey | clearly he's lying. | 05:06 |
| orangey | GeneralAntilles: there you go. I called him out a bit more. | 05:09 |
| orangey | I think it's only fair to warn any possible buyers outright. | 05:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | You get some bizarre sellers on itT. | 05:09 |
| GeneralAntilles | I like the guys who start verbally abusing potential buyers. | 05:10 |
| orangey | they can't verbally abuse them : ) | 05:10 |
| orangey | but I take the point | 05:10 |
| GeneralAntilles | textually | 05:10 |
| orangey | sounds desirable | 05:11 |
| orangey | http://shop.eten.hu/mugen-power-3600mah-extended-battery-for-nokia-n810-with-battery-door-blue-p-475.html | 05:11 |
| orangey | interesting.. | 05:11 |
| GeneralAntilles | Apparently it works well enough | 05:12 |
| GeneralAntilles | Though it does make it a bit fat. | 05:12 |
| orangey | and probably won't fit so well in my case. | 05:12 |
| orangey | I would personally prefer to carry two batteries than one whopper. | 05:12 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Such a pain to micromanage battery charging | 05:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | But that's why I travel with a 770. | 05:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | I wonder if this really does have an extra 300mAh http://shop.eten.hu/mugen-power-1800mah-extended-battery-for-nokia-n770-7700-7710-9500-e61-e62-n92-n800-p-252.html | 05:13 |
| orangey | why? The 770 has a great battery life? | 05:14 |
| orangey | I've only ever known the 810 | 05:14 |
| orangey | and it's amazing. | 05:14 |
| orangey | though I shake my head at the GPS. | 05:14 |
| orangey | WTF. | 05:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nah, easy battery charger for the extra battery for my N800. ;) | 05:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | The GPS was probably bundled for free from TI with the OMAP2420. | 05:15 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's about the cheapest cellular GPS they make. | 05:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Now that's a suspicious reply. | 05:16 |
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| orangey | GeneralAntilles: the photos check out | 05:39 |
| orangey | I think the guy just scored the nokia by dropping it or stabbing it or something falling on it. | 05:40 |
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| fiekia | is it a bad idea to move my directories to /dev/mmc2? | 06:19 |
| GAN800 | Well, considering it a. doesn't exist and b. isn't actually a filesystem. . . . | 06:29 |
| fiekia | /dev/mmcblk0p1 | 06:30 |
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| GAN800 | Still isn't a filesystem. ;) | 06:30 |
| GAN800 | That'd be /media/mmc2 | 06:31 |
| fiekia | .......... | 06:31 |
| fiekia | ................. | 06:31 |
| fiekia | blah! | 06:31 |
| * GeneralAntilles really hates anything and everything to do with cellular. | 06:36 | |
| ShadowJK_ | What directories? | 06:36 |
| GeneralAntilles | Those self-proclaimed cellular pundits on itT are incredibly tiresome. | 06:37 |
| ShadowJK_ | what does pundits mean? | 06:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://www.google.com/search?ie=utf8&oe=utf8&q=pundits | 06:38 |
| ShadowJK_ | link to examples? :-) | 06:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Political_commentator#Current_use | 06:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Your google-fu is weak. . . . | 06:39 |
| ShadowJK_ | I meant on itt | 06:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Ah, that. | 06:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | Practically anything posted by johnkzin. | 06:39 |
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| ShadowJK_ | how much more CPU intensive can you make a forum anyway.. sigh | 06:40 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I wish Reggie would fix the minimalist theme and make it the default. | 06:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | People are too fixated on making "mobile" layouts | 06:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | They just need to make regular layouts that don't suck ass. | 06:40 |
| ShadowJK_ | quite | 06:41 |
| ShadowJK_ | I don't even see a "unfuck the site" link anywhere, or anything that looks like it'd do that :P | 06:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | There's a styles dropdown on the bottom left of most pages. | 06:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | The old style is lighter | 06:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | or you can you one of the mobile styles, but they're missing features. | 06:42 |
| ShadowJK_ | oh there | 06:42 |
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| RST38h | Krisse is now seriously pissed off. | 07:14 |
| * RST38h guesses commenters were real hard on him | 07:15 | |
| GAN800 | Worse than 6 hours ago? | 07:15 |
| RST38h | 6 hours ago I was asleep so can't compare | 07:15 |
| RST38h | Defintely more pissed than yesterday though | 07:15 |
| GAN800 | Ah, guess not then. | 07:15 |
| GAN800 | Somewhat weird, but I've never put much stock in his prediction ability | 07:16 |
| GAN800 | Symbian guy | 07:16 |
| RST38h | Well, he appears to spell doom predictions correctly | 07:17 |
| RST38h | I am just not buying his cures | 07:17 |
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| ComradeCactaur | Anyone here familiar with gpe-calendar? | 07:44 |
| ComradeCactaur | Because, I can't figure out how to view events between 7 pm and 7am. | 07:44 |
| ComradeCactaur | It doesn't scroll, and none of the buttons do anything to help. | 07:45 |
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| * Stskeeps yawns | 10:11 | |
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| qwerty12 | ~curse effing time changes | 10:11 |
| infobot | May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, effing time changes ! | 10:11 |
| * qwerty12 came down at "8:00 AM" to find it was really 7:00 AM | 10:12 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, why community suicide? | 10:12 |
| Jaffa | Morning, all | 10:13 |
| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: well initial thought after sending the mail, but that's probably just to deal with low self esteem :) | 10:13 |
| GeneralAntilles | Stskeeps, I can't image where that'd be coming from. :) Those all sounded like things the community would eat up. ;) | 10:14 |
| Jaffa | Didn't seem too outlandish | 10:14 |
| Stskeeps | and it would be a huge boost for maemo really.. i -think- i'm right in my assumption that there's no other real "good" user-oriented platforms than maemo for low cpu/power devices | 10:15 |
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| GeneralAntilles | I do think it should go into a wiki page, though. | 10:16 |
| Stskeeps | mm | 10:17 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Little more detailed and a lot less transient. | 10:17 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Something management could be shown. | 10:17 |
| Stskeeps | hehe, executive summary | 10:18 |
| Stskeeps | we'll see if the nokia people takes the bait first, otherwise it doesn't matter that much to making it structured | 10:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | Quim used the argument that neither Ubuntu nor Debian target armv6 | 10:18 |
| GeneralAntilles | That kinda seems like bull to me | 10:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | I mean, they just gotta recompile, right? | 10:19 |
| Stskeeps | yeah | 10:19 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, problem is, the people empowered to make major decisions like that generally don't frequent the lists. | 10:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | and giving Quim something concrete to point to will help. | 10:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | I'd like to hear what Eero and Igor think, though. | 10:21 |
| Stskeeps | yeah, they seem to be closer to the core, - i'd like to see some community comments as well so it's just not a dream by a few people | 10:21 |
| GeneralAntilles | Well, practically speaking, what does it mean for most people? | 10:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | More software, easier development? | 10:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | I can't imagine anybody being against that. ;) | 10:22 |
| GeneralAntilles | Jaffa, do you want to blog a bit about this, or are you gonna make me do it? :P | 10:23 |
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| Jaffa | :) | 10:25 |
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| * Jaffa boggling at people who think Maemo - and Nokia - have anything much to contribute to a low-end market in which everyone else is attempting to compete. | 10:29 | |
| GeneralAntilles | Everybody's got a netbook | 10:30 |
| GeneralAntilles | practically nobody has a tablet | 10:30 |
| Stskeeps | i've met people who would actually prefer a tablet to a netbook | 10:30 |
| * GeneralAntilles raises his hand. | 10:30 | |
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| Stskeeps | for sake of touch screens and being able to write notes / formulas etc that way for studies | 10:31 |
| GeneralAntilles | By "everybody" I mean "every manufacturer" | 10:31 |
| Stskeeps | even if it's microsoft, http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e-IRspSs-qw , they have the right idea | 10:33 |
| Stskeeps | (look for tablets in there too) | 10:33 |
| Stskeeps | and honestly, netbooks is just a continuation of the "PC" model, whereas a paradigm shift is needed | 10:34 |
| Stskeeps | away from the traditional desktop | 10:34 |
| GeneralAntilles | It's interesting that krisse would say the tablet market is dead when most everybody else says the market's going to explode in a couple years. | 10:35 |
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| Stskeeps | devices are getting smaller and the tendancies are already there | 10:36 |
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| Stskeeps | and huge research money is put into ubiquitous computing :P | 10:38 |
| Stskeeps | (or whatever people name it) | 10:38 |
| Jaffa | indeed; much more interesting form factor | 10:41 |
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| Stskeeps | GeneralAntilles: http://www.ubiq.com/hypertext/weiser/SciAmDraft3.html <- the traditional ubiqutious computing paper, for inspiration :P | 10:51 |
| t_s_o | hrmf, why am i getting the feeling that canola is doing to the tablets what arcohs are doing to the pmp, but in reverse? or maybe i should say full circle, as i sometimes feel as if canola is a os running on top of a os... | 11:12 |
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| t_s_o | ugh, now im thinking that if nokia took canola, put microb and a calendar inside it and presented it as fremantle, a lot of the community would hail it as a gift from god... | 11:15 |
| melmoth | is canola free software yet ? | 11:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | melmoth, technically, yes. | 11:16 |
| GeneralAntilles | Source isn't out yet, though. | 11:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Should be in a couple months. | 11:17 |
| melmoth | good news. | 11:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | t_s_o, hehe, I've had thoughts like that myself. | 11:17 |
| GeneralAntilles | Though, replace "OS" with "desktop environment". | 11:17 |
| t_s_o | well the DE is the os more often then not these days... | 11:17 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Not by definition, but I get your point. ;) | 11:18 |
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| t_s_o | bah, i really wish that microb had a way to hand of task to third party apps, like say doing youtube or other flash videos outside of the browser window with mplayer... | 11:19 |
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| GeneralAntilles | It does | 11:20 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Make a plugin | 11:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Nobody's stepped up to put something nice together yet, though. :( | 11:20 |
| t_s_o | hmm... | 11:20 |
| t_s_o | where is the docs for that? | 11:20 |
| GeneralAntilles | Shouldn't be radically different from regular Mozilla plugins. | 11:21 |
| qwerty12 | t_s_o: Code for some plugins: http://openbossa.indt.org/canola/developer.html | 11:21 |
| qwerty12 | t_s_o: my bad | 11:21 |
| * qwerty12 thought you were talking about canola plugins | 11:21 | |
| t_s_o | ... | 11:21 |
| * GeneralAntilles pokes qwerty12 with a stick. | 11:22 | |
| qwerty12 | t_s_o: The mplayer plugin is a nice place to start from then: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=17715 | 11:22 |
| qwerty12 | GeneralAntilles: heh | 11:22 |
| t_s_o | heh, i just found that one | 11:22 |
| t_s_o | another option would be for some simple way to copy a media url onto the clipboard for the user to paste anywhere one would like | 11:25 |
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| qwerty12 | For me, what could work is using something like pipeline's dbus-switchboard to send the youtube mime type to mplayer and using a greasemonkey script to put the link to the flv directly on the youtube page | 11:26 |
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| GeneralAntilles | Yeah, that sounds like a logical plan. | 11:26 |
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| GAN800 | RST38h, ping. | 11:38 |
| t_s_o | qwerty12: thanks for reminding me of greasemonkey | 11:39 |
| t_s_o | i keep forgetting about its potential utility | 11:40 |
| qwerty12 | heh, I need to reinstall it. *fingers crossed* it works in diablo | 11:40 |
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| RST38h | pong. | 11:43 |
| GAN800 | RST38h, new VGB has the framebuffer changes? | 11:43 |
| RST38h | yep | 11:45 |
| * Jaffa spots krisse's thread on ITT where Internet Tablet School is being closed down because a) there's no future in the tablets; b) lots (i.e. 8) thumbs on maemo.org for that post. | 11:45 | |
| GAN800 | You might consider using Maemo-Update-Description and checking to see if a menu location has already been selected wheb updating. | 11:46 |
| RST38h | you all managed to piss Krisse off, you evil clowns! | 11:46 |
| RST38h | 8) | 11:46 |
| GAN800 | I can coerce qwerty12 into providing a patch if you want. :D | 11:46 |
| * Jaffa can live with himself for pissing *anyone* off ;-) | 11:46 | |
| RST38h | GAN: Zap told me how to do it once but I forgot =( | 11:46 |
| Jaffa | I do it all day at work | 11:46 |
| RST38h | it is basically an extra line in postinst, if I remember correctly | 11:46 |
| * GAN800 pokes qwerty12 | 11:46 | |
| GAN800 | probably something that needs to go in my packaging tips wiki page. | 11:47 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: IT helpdesk? =) | 11:47 |
| qwerty12 | Jaffa: I'm more inclined to think it's because he can't think of anything more to provide articles on. I mean, come on, his view of the "future of maemo" isn't a tutorial. | 11:47 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h: Wait a sec | 11:47 |
| Jaffa | GAN800: Eh? There's now a header, Maemo-Update-Description to give a small changelog for a new package? I remember the discussion about it on -developers (I think I even suggested a package header), but don't remember *any* communication about the feature actually being implemented | 11:48 |
| RST38h | GAN: Just use VGB postinst as a sample - it includes all the possible things one would want to do during installation | 11:48 |
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| RST38h | From updating caches to cleaning gconf | 11:48 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: Senior Architect. I get to tell code monkeys who are a grade above me that their idea's crap ;-) | 11:48 |
| Jaffa | qwerty12: true | 11:48 |
| GAN800 | Jaffa, it's on the h-a-m garage page. | 11:48 |
| Jaffa | GAN800: That doesn't count as communication. Developers don't watch that looking for new features to make people's lives easier. | 11:49 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: As long as it works... | 11:49 |
| GAN800 | Jaffa, oh, sorry, I was just going for the technical details. ;D | 11:49 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: ah, no - that's not the only criteria in this case (though I accept sometimes that is) | 11:49 |
| Jaffa | GAN800: No, I meant the "good news, package maintainers: you can now help your users know what the upgrade is going to do for them with ..." | 11:49 |
| GAN800 | Jaffa, yeah, I got you. | 11:50 |
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| t_s_o | hmm, i suspect that greasemonkey do not work in diablo... | 11:51 |
| t_s_o | or maybe i spoke to soon... | 11:52 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h: Use this: http://slexy.org/view/s21xhtRXIN . Though, solmumaha tells me this way isn't entirely the best as $2 can mean more than just an upgrade | 11:53 |
| RST38h | aha | 11:53 |
| qwerty12 | RST38h: Though, why do you insist on removing vgb settings on each upgrade :) | 11:53 |
| RST38h | thanks =) | 11:54 |
| RST38h | qwerty: If some bit layouts change, those setting will become a problem for you | 11:57 |
| qwerty12 | Ah, ok | 11:57 |
| qwerty12 | I was wondering why my last used rom didn't show up when I upgraded vgb :) | 11:57 |
| qwerty12 | Time to see if gimp from svn can open a "raw rgb (24 bits)" :) | 12:00 |
| RST38h | Epic fuckup in the making: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2008/10/26/kofax_doc_capture_looking_good/ | 12:00 |
| zap | what are "framebuffer changes"? | 12:00 |
| RST38h | zap: I went from GdkImage to using fb blitting/scaling directly when in full screen mode | 12:03 |
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| aquatix | morning all | 12:07 |
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| * RST38h continues getting spam in Polish. What did I do? | 12:08 | |
| RST38h | Whose mailbox have I been to? | 12:08 |
| zap | that should be alot faster | 12:11 |
| zap | have you measured any numbers? | 12:12 |
| aquatix | RST38h: oh shit | 12:15 |
| aquatix | something with brides.pl? | 12:15 |
| Stskeeps | i can recommend polish gfs :P | 12:16 |
| aquatix | ghehe | 12:16 |
| * aquatix has a dutch one | 12:16 | |
| aquatix | also very nice ;) | 12:16 |
| GAN800 | zap, anecdotally speaking, crazy fast. ;) | 12:23 |
| * Jaffa should do some chores before hacking on the App Mgr source | 12:24 | |
| GAN800 | Should be pretty straightforward to get it to remember category position, no? | 12:27 |
| RST38h | Sts: I do not think they will be any better thanlocal offerings | 12:28 |
| RST38h | zap: Well, there is a frame rate limiter and it reaches the limit now | 12:28 |
| RST38h | zap: even in VGBA | 12:28 |
| qwerty12 | Jaffa: Willing to finish off the toggable show legal warnings patch? | 12:28 |
| RST38h | all right, off for a stroll in the park | 12:29 |
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| zap | cool | 12:32 |
| zap | last time I tried vgba it was slow | 12:33 |
| zap | umm, is it in repo now? | 12:33 |
| GAN800 | qwerty12, how about an osv-c to go with it? ;) | 12:33 |
| GAN800 | zap, yes. | 12:33 |
| * zap updates updates updates | 12:33 | |
| zap | RST38h: by the way, what audio subsystem are you using? SDL? | 12:34 |
| GAN800 | Could be devel, though. | 12:34 |
| qwerty12 | GAN800: I'm having trouble with the patch, I shudder at thinking about attempting osv-c | 12:34 |
| GAN800 | It's just playing with dependencies, though. | 12:35 |
| * GAN800 wonders where jott's hiding. :( | 12:36 | |
| t_s_o | bah, i need a book on javascript, at least, to make sense of anything... | 12:36 |
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| qwerty12 | Grr, it would be nice if I could get http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/screenies/initfslogo.png to actually be in blue... | 12:47 |
| GAN800 | Got enough color bits? | 12:48 |
| qwerty12 | Ah, my bad, looks like I should read the help properly. Imagemagick can only display that file in monochrome :/ | 12:49 |
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| t_s_o | :P | 12:56 |
| t_s_o | two features i would love to see in microb: 1. when images are turned of, a placeholder is put in to allow ease of finding specific image for manual download, 2. when flash is turned of, a placeholder is available for copying of source url...' | 12:59 |
| t_s_o | neither will probably show up as they would violate html specs... | 12:59 |
| t_s_o | at least thats the answer i got when i attempted to file 1 as a bug, and got it tagged as wontfix... | 13:01 |
| * lcuk shivers | 13:02 | |
| qwerty12 | hi lcuk | 13:03 |
| lcuk | hiya qwerty12 | 13:03 |
| Stskeeps | morning lcuk | 13:03 |
| lcuk | hows the good ship #maemo this morning? | 13:03 |
| lcuk | o/ sts | 13:03 |
| * lcuk is at a very difficult crossroads | 13:05 | |
| GAN800 | t_s_o, wait for Fremantle and you can patch it. | 13:05 |
| GAN800 | lcuk, take the fork in the road. | 13:05 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: wife went "tablet or me"? :P | 13:06 |
| lcuk | well one direction involves installing linux on desktop and building something in C for linux desktop, the other involves sticking with windows and writing something in VB | 13:06 |
| t_s_o | GAN800: right now, fremantle holds little appeal to me. until we get confirmed that it will be available on the existing tablets, im going for a pandora :( | 13:06 |
| GAN800 | Linux, baby! | 13:06 |
| GAN800 | t_s_o, the Pandora practically is an N900. . . . | 13:07 |
| * lcuk wants a nokia - they HAVE to get us a decent camera on this next model | 13:07 | |
| * Stskeeps really dislikes the fact we have no actual idea about what fremantle really looks like except for various hints | 13:07 | |
| GAN800 | Stskeeps, problem is, Nokia doesn't know either. | 13:07 |
| * lcuk has a feeling that nokia doesnt know what fremantle looks like yet either apart for various hints | 13:07 | |
| GAN800 | Remember, the mockups at the Summit weren't anywhere near finalized. | 13:08 |
| Stskeeps | that's true | 13:08 |
| Stskeeps | i meant more like system arch though | 13:08 |
| melmoth | i would rather have a decent gps than a decent cam | 13:08 |
| qwerty12 | Hmm, looks like maemo may be supporting vala? | 13:08 |
| GAN800 | Stskeeps, December. | 13:09 |
| lcuk | i think your mailing last night was pretty clean sts - but i still think a pretty front end ontop is desirable | 13:09 |
| lcuk | qwerty12, its on its way | 13:09 |
| * lcuk likes vala | 13:09 | |
| Stskeeps | GAN800: the packages list of fremantle sdk seemed horridly boring though | 13:09 |
| qwerty12 | lcuk: ah, cool :). I hear vala is nice except for the compile time :p | 13:09 |
| lcuk | yeah - get that licked and we are rocking | 13:09 |
| t_s_o | optionally, nokia open sources everything they can (no closed source "differenciators") of diablo, and hands it all over to the community... | 13:09 |
| Stskeeps | probably not going to happen | 13:10 |
| * lcuk might consider ondemand compilation or *shock* a scripting language | 13:10 | |
| lcuk | t_s_o, why not simply use the existing OSS variants out there | 13:10 |
| GAN800 | t_s_o, there's zero incentive | 13:10 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: pretty frontend of the system or the pretty front end as in a wiki outlining it more structured? | 13:10 |
| lcuk | theres no real need to open source what they have its just a case of finding the already open rplacements | 13:10 |
| GAN800 | Nokia doesn't open source dead codebases. | 13:10 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, front end ui | 13:11 |
| lcuk | GAN800, agreed - it would be the wrong thing to do | 13:11 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: think putting the line at hildon is sane | 13:11 |
| Stskeeps | then there's room for play | 13:11 |
| lcuk | better to find in progress open things | 13:11 |
| t_s_o | so, how about a open replacement for microb? | 13:11 |
| Stskeeps | t_s_o: tear, midori.. | 13:11 |
| lcuk | t_s_o, theres plenty being tried - one will emerge as the winner | 13:11 |
| GAN800 | t_s_o, MicroB is open . . . | 13:11 |
| GAN800 | You mean tablet-browser-ui | 13:12 |
| t_s_o | semantics... | 13:12 |
| GAN800 | Important, though | 13:12 |
| lcuk | i'm still freezing | 13:12 |
| Stskeeps | http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=233329&postcount=1 <- could easily replace tablet-browser-ui :P | 13:13 |
| lcuk | moving my fingers to type isnt helping much, i need to do more | 13:13 |
| * GAN800 is comfortable | 13:13 | |
| * Stskeeps has a very bad cold and would very much like to have a clear mind. | 13:13 | |
| lcuk | :( headfunk | 13:14 |
| * qwerty12 is fine and this is with the heater off... | 13:14 | |
| GAN800 | Hollows out Stskeeps' head | 13:14 |
| lcuk | apt-get autoremove gunk | 13:14 |
| t_s_o | ones nokia starts referring to the tablet browser as tablet-browser-ui, i will... | 13:14 |
| * GAN800 's window is open. | 13:14 | |
| lcuk | heh root canal on sts's brainstem | 13:14 |
| GAN800 | t_s_o, they don't refer to it as MicroB | 13:14 |
| GAN800 | MicroB is just the engine. | 13:15 |
| GAN800 | The community uses it for the whole thing. | 13:15 |
| lcuk | ok, point from all this: we need a decent browser and the current one looks long in the tooth and doesnt make our nokias shine | 13:15 |
| t_s_o | well, everywhere i read about it, the browser is called microb, so somewhere the message must have gotten garbeled... | 13:15 |
| GAN800 | Who wants to discuss 'Mozilla based browser for Maemo' | 13:16 |
| * lcuk thinks big fat bloated desktop code is overbloat | 13:16 | |
| GAN800 | Anyway, if you're talking source, it's either MicroB (the open engine) or tablet-browser-ui (the closed ui) | 13:16 |
| * lcuk seeks nimble code | 13:16 | |
| t_s_o | a engine without a ui is virtually useless :( | 13:17 |
| GAN800 | It's old | 13:17 |
| GAN800 | You get the engine up to speed with trunk and it'll be much faster | 13:17 |
| * lcuk keeps pondering html engine in liqbase | 13:17 | |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: webkit? :P | 13:18 |
| GAN800 | t_s_o, the difference is still important when discussing code licensing. | 13:18 |
| t_s_o | lcuk: now that may make it useful ;) | 13:18 |
| lcuk | t_s_o, theres plenty fo things which can be useful | 13:18 |
| lcuk | i just dont have the time :) | 13:18 |
| lcuk | anyway, ive got this massive decision to make | 13:18 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: i wouldn't mind a bloody fast renderer even if the amount of colours are lower | 13:18 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 13:18 |
| lcuk | how many use windows desktop vs linux desktop | 13:18 |
| lcuk | Stskeeps, number of colors are the same (infact higher than 16bit rgb) its just theres a few less pixels | 13:19 |
| GAN800 | Linux == more suffering in the short term and less in the long. | 13:19 |
| lcuk | but the time to get me running smoothly is great | 13:19 |
| GAN800 | But, really, where do you think you are, lcuk. :P | 13:19 |
| lcuk | i REALLY want to just jump to a linux touchscreen desktop | 13:20 |
| lcuk | without messing, preinstalled from scratch all nicely done and works with touch :) | 13:20 |
| lcuk | asus eee desktop here i come :) | 13:20 |
| lcuk | THAT will be when i jump from windows | 13:20 |
| Stskeeps | lcuk: i use a windows xp desktop, linux tablet, freebsd servers, solaris servers, -- all the right tools for the job | 13:20 |
| lcuk | yeah sts | 13:21 |
| GAN800 | Touch makes zero sense to me on the desktop. | 13:21 |
| lcuk | touch makes all the sense for me to expand my ideas | 13:21 |
| lcuk | right now i want to make the big daddy application liqmaster :) | 13:21 |
| lcuk | my tablet can pair and sync with it and the extra space allows management thats just impractical on a 4" screen | 13:22 |
| lcuk | the alternative is just sod it and create user accounts on liqbase.net and have everything uploaded there | 13:22 |
| lcuk | decisions, decisions | 13:23 |
| t_s_o | http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2008/10/25/compact-esque-lg-reveal-and-shimmer-kit-primping-for-bell-launch/ <- electronics as fashion statements? | 13:23 |
| lcuk | yes absolutely | 13:24 |
| GAN800 | What do you think an iPhone is? | 13:24 |
| lcuk | i like the pletrum-esq stylus i saw on some nokia video | 13:24 |
| lcuk | plectrum | 13:24 |
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| t_s_o | got a point there GAN800 | 13:25 |
| t_s_o | i guess the same can be said for the people with macbooks on the table at a starbucks style places... | 13:26 |
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| lcuk | in the same way many of us know nokia people, does anyone have any contacts in or near asus? | 13:30 |
| AstralStorm | hehe | 13:30 |
| AstralStorm | is that a phone, or jewelry? | 13:30 |
| t_s_o | a little bit of both, probably... | 13:31 |
| lcuk | does it matter? | 13:31 |
| AstralStorm | although the small form factor is nice, I'd drop the extras and release another version | 13:31 |
| AstralStorm | cheaper this time | 13:31 |
| * lcuk didnt know AstralStorm ran a mobile phone company | 13:32 | |
| AstralStorm | no no | 13:32 |
| AstralStorm | I'd sell both | 13:32 |
| AstralStorm | the premium phone will sell too :> | 13:32 |
| johnx | "drop extras"? "cheaper"? Are we thinking about the same Apple? | 13:33 |
| AstralStorm | uhm, about LG, not Apple | 13:33 |
| AstralStorm | apple will never do this, because it's their brand to be posh and expensive | 13:34 |
| johnx | ah, that makes more sense then :) | 13:34 |
| johnx | LG can do cheap impressively | 13:34 |
| t_s_o | LG and samsung comes up with some interesting designs, to bad most of them seem to end up with US operators on exclusive contracts... | 13:35 |
| johnx | or Korean operators :) | 13:36 |
| AstralStorm | well, because they expect to get more money that way | 13:36 |
| johnx | but either way, it's CDMA I suppose | 13:36 |
| t_s_o | true that johnx | 13:36 |
| t_s_o | at&t is umts | 13:36 |
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| t_s_o | nice, a panucci package on the repos :D | 13:37 |
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| GAN800 | I'm impressed by how little AT&T has in their lineup right now. | 13:37 |
| AstralStorm | mmmh, Kodak sensor in N97... gimme | 13:38 |
| AstralStorm | or in N900 ;> | 13:38 |
| johnx | I just hope it has decent optics... | 13:38 |
| GeneralAntilles | Hopefully not too decent. :P | 13:39 |
| GeneralAntilles | I don't want it to be huge. | 13:39 |
| t_s_o | i kinda liked the idea i spotted on a recent samsung flip, the camera was inside the hinge so that it would point down while closed. and they made the the outer screen the same as the inner one, so one could use it as a viewfinder ;) | 13:39 |
| johnx | more moving parts to break... | 13:39 |
| t_s_o | heh, maybe so ;) | 13:39 |
| AstralStorm | GeneralAntilles: optics are small | 13:40 |
| AstralStorm | and there's enough space | 13:40 |
| AstralStorm | see those Carl Zeiss they had already | 13:40 |
| AstralStorm | that + excellent sensor = win | 13:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | Yes, the N93 was huuuuge | 13:40 |
| t_s_o | hmm, does the browser have some kind of pr filetype download memory? it seems to suggest the right place for debs, but a different for new kinds of files... | 13:40 |
| AstralStorm | GeneralAntilles: n810 isn't? :> | 13:40 |
| lcuk | +software to go with it == double plus mega super win | 13:40 |
| GeneralAntilles | AstralStorm, it's not getting any smaller if you add big optics. | 13:41 |
| * johnx imagines something DSLR sized and shaped, integrating a 4" touchscreen with a speaker and mic along the bottom edge with dials and buttons everywhere and a camcorder battery hanging off one side :) | 13:41 | |
| lcuk | gan, you dont need perfect optics, theres plenty of "good enough" stuff in camera phones now that dont compromise size for quality too much | 13:41 |
| AstralStorm | GeneralAntilles: not that it should get a lot smaller | 13:42 |
| AstralStorm | maybe a cm here | 13:42 |
| GeneralAntilles | lcuk, johnx brought it up. | 13:42 |
| AstralStorm | but there's still enough space to fill in inside | 13:42 |
| AstralStorm | can't be made much thinner obviously | 13:43 |
| johnx | If the next tablet doesn't support standard DSLR lenses I don't see the point :D | 13:43 |
| AstralStorm | wtf? | 13:43 |
| GeneralAntilles | johnx, as long as it's an EF mount. . . | 13:43 |
| AstralStorm | no, it will outcompete cell phones there | 13:43 |
| johnx | I'm keeding :P | 13:43 |
| lcuk | inside camera phones, do the camera modules use custom interfaces, or are they basically serial and can be modified to work with usb? | 13:43 |
| GAN800 | OMAP has a camera interface | 13:44 |
| lcuk | this extensions 32gb case thing craves1 is making would make an ideal place to put a camera module for 810 if one can be found with sufficient drivers | 13:44 |
| GAN800 | You'll have to look at the docs for more. | 13:45 |
| lcuk | yes gan, but im thinking NOW | 13:45 |
| johnx | twp camera interfaces, IIRC | 13:45 |
| RST38h | why two? | 13:46 |
| lcuk | camera phone operators dont reinvent the wheel when adding cameras do they (they cant?) i wonder just how simple it would be to get one working | 13:46 |
| GAN800 | RST38h, one front, one back. | 13:47 |
| johnx | RST38h, for pictures and video conferencing I'd think | 13:47 |
| RST38h | lcuk: probably as simple as reading i2c device | 13:47 |
| RST38h | gan: ah! | 13:47 |
| RST38h | <-- stupid, didnt think of that | 13:47 |
| GAN800 | I want stereovision | 13:48 |
| GAN800 | Hrm | 13:48 |
| lcuk | http://liqbase.net/double_tiny.JPG << stereo cameras | 13:48 |
| lcuk | just addsync | 13:48 |
| GAN800 | I need to build a camera mount now. . . . | 13:48 |
| RST38h | not for two tablets I hope... | 13:49 |
| GAN800 | Wonder's if there's good software to build 3d images. | 13:49 |
| lcuk | yes, criminologists use it | 13:49 |
| lcuk | and theres more coming out everyday | 13:49 |
| Jaffa | Just go cross-eyed to form the composite. | 13:50 |
| lcuk | darpa robot stuff is making extensive use of it all | 13:50 |
| GAN800 | Got a friend who also has an XTi | 13:50 |
| GAN800 | Holiday project . . . | 13:50 |
| * Jaffa wonders if it's worth checking out the 2.2.x branch of Hildon App Mgr. | 13:51 | |
| Jaffa | Bah, I'll see if it compiles on diablo | 13:51 |
| GAN800 | Jaffa, let us know if it goes all clutter on yah. ;) | 13:51 |
| Jaffa | :) | 13:51 |
| RST38h | just take an image processing class | 13:52 |
| johnx | press show all and 1,000 3D "packages" fall from the top of the screen with realistic physics? | 13:52 |
| RST38h | and at the end of the semester you will write your own | 13:52 |
| GAN800 | RST38h, too much damn work | 13:52 |
| RST38h | not really =) | 13:53 |
| lcuk | johnx, think more zooming in and entering a cloud of apps | 13:53 |
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| lcuk | large apps == best rated | 13:53 |
| johnx | then having to poke at them as they fly past? | 13:53 |
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| RST38h | you are not processing results from 40 cameras to create a volumetric octree are you? | 13:53 |
| GAN800 | I just want to attach two cameras to a 2x4 and the the 2x4 to a tripod. ;) | 13:53 |
| johnx | installing packages should require strategy, fast reflexes and patience. It was hard to write, it should be hard to install...one way or the other. | 13:54 |
| lcuk | make sure you get a Johnny #5 head to wrap them in | 13:54 |
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| lcuk | heh johnx | 13:54 |
| RST38h | johnx: well said! | 13:54 |
| lcuk | app uninstallation via doom interface | 13:54 |
| lcuk | (yes i know pskill doom, but this is more final | 13:54 |
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| GAN800 | Ahahaha, johnx | 13:54 |
| RST38h | installing a package should require typing it in using binary code, with you FullScreen button | 13:55 |
| lcuk | you have to get through several levels just to get to install canola (boss fight) | 13:55 |
| RST38h | from water-damaged scraps of printouts | 13:55 |
| johnx | lcuk, after defeating all the "dependencies"? | 13:55 |
| lcuk | transmitted via fax after photographing on a wooden table | 13:55 |
| lcuk | heh johnx | 13:55 |
| lcuk | try not to die or you need to insert more credits (lines of code) | 13:56 |
| RST38h | johnx: after defeating the Python boss | 13:56 |
| lcuk | as you develop your skills further more of your GPS map opens up and shows you stuff | 13:56 |
| johnx | think you're all finished? dist-upgrade sudden death! | 13:56 |
| GAN800 | I can only imagine customer satisfaction will go way up | 13:56 |
| RST38h | johnx: and picking canola out of its anal orifice ( do snakes have those?) | 13:56 |
| lcuk | when you unwrap your nokia all you can see if your basement | 13:56 |
| GAN800 | Rewards are just so much more rewarding when you have to work for them. | 13:57 |
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| Jaffa | Bah: attempting to compile the hildon-app-mgr trunk: http://pastebin.com/m73692c4b - seems an odd symbol to be missing (a glib one) | 13:57 |
| RST38h | lcuk: that is already better than the current version which does not work in basements | 13:57 |
| lcuk | "you are in a dark basement. you are likely to be eaten by a grue" | 13:57 |
| lcuk | RST38h, AGPS is THAT good | 13:58 |
| johnx | "In dist-upgrade sudden death, one false move leaves your tablet unbootable! You'll have to "reflash" back to the beginning of the game if you lose." | 13:58 |
| RST38h | as good as grue? | 13:58 |
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| RST38h | and after 5 reflashes it dies for good | 13:59 |
| lcuk | can YOU master the console in time to beat the upgrade?" | 13:59 |
| RST38h | all right, on with the stroll | 13:59 |
| lcuk | bonus levels involve opening vi up and having to navigate its maze | 13:59 |
| GAN800 | Sounds easy | 14:00 |
| * lcuk still hasnt decided on VB server or linux server | 14:00 | |
| qwerty12 | lcuk: linux or I shoot you | 14:00 |
| zap | VB == visual basic? | 14:00 |
| lcuk | yes | 14:01 |
| zap | %-O | 14:01 |
| johnx | GAN800, vi should be puzzle mode: accomplishing "editing tasks" with a minimum of keystrokes :) | 14:01 |
| Jaffa | Right, one things I've found out: Hildon App Mgr uses fremantle's glib which'll be >= 2.16. Diablo has 2.12. g_strcmp0 was introduced in 2.16. | 14:01 |
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| zap | 'server' and 'basic' are incompatible words | 14:01 |
| lcuk | zap :) i can do anything in vb that you could do in any other language, i write code using my "C" cap and make it quick | 14:02 |
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| Jaffa | solmumaha: newer version of glib in fremantle :-) | 14:02 |
| lcuk | its kinda object oriented (at least has classes) and lets me draw stuff quickly, linux is like the stone ages :) | 14:02 |
| zap | lcuk: I can do in asm anything you can imagine... however I don't use asm most of the time... | 14:03 |
| zap | for prototyping python is good | 14:03 |
| Jaffa | s/solmumaha/so/ | 14:03 |
| infobot | Jaffa meant: so: newer version of glib in fremantle :-) | 14:03 |
| lcuk | zap - i can use asm in vb as well (and have done in the past) | 14:03 |
| lcuk | zap - agreed re: python - i want a ui designer thats integrated with a great editor | 14:04 |
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| * lcuk keeps thinking of the little bits liqbase would require to output full ui code to link with liqbase | 14:05 | |
| johnx | lcuk, making your own OS? | 14:05 |
| lcuk | draw a ui (or photograph one) highlight the input areas | 14:05 |
| lcuk | and let the user go at it | 14:05 |
| lcuk | no johnx, but i want to speed up development time | 14:06 |
| johnx | fair enough. Just reminds me of emacs somehow | 14:06 |
| lcuk | i keep drawing UI screens for nokia | 14:06 |
| zap | lcuk: glade + python works fine | 14:06 |
| lcuk | im just lazy and crap out when it comes to actually coding them | 14:06 |
| lcuk | glade works on the desktop | 14:06 |
| lcuk | but not well on the tablet | 14:07 |
| lcuk | it should be as smooth and simple as liqbase currently is, but project based | 14:07 |
| zap | well, vb doesnt work on tablet as well :) | 14:07 |
| lcuk | with editing and stuff | 14:07 |
| lcuk | the language is not important, ill put bindings to python or something as required later | 14:07 |
| lcuk | or just link to ecmascript or something | 14:07 |
| lcuk | i just want something for very quick prototyping so i can see if ideas work | 14:08 |
| lcuk | i have about 50 little microapps waiting in line here | 14:08 |
| lcuk | which need to have their widgets burnt in code | 14:08 |
| * lcuk has a lot of things to try and do :) | 14:08 | |
| qwerty12 | Jaffa: Did a dodgy backport of the application manager in trunk and I can only install pidgin-data & pidgin-dbg :P | 14:09 |
| lcuk | zap, we need a decent editor before the language is chosen ;) | 14:10 |
| lcuk | i want to edit on the go as easily as i edit here | 14:10 |
| johnx | yup, it's emacs :) | 14:10 |
| lcuk | heh | 14:10 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: saw my post on maemo-developers? | 14:10 |
| lcuk | johnx, would you call the iphone emacs? just because it has lots of little modules for doing different things? | 14:11 |
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| johnx | Stskeeps, yeah, a little bit stream of consciousness, but I definitely agree | 14:11 |
| johnx | lcuk, no, but you're starting with an editor, on your way to create a user environment you never need to leave :) | 14:11 |
| GAN800 | Ehehe | 14:12 |
| lcuk | :) and | 14:12 |
| lcuk | i like things to work nicely and smoothly | 14:12 |
| * GAN800 almost wants to qdb that one. | 14:12 | |
| * lcuk has expectations about applications | 14:12 | |
| johnx | no problem of course. It's just that you are starting an OS | 14:12 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: liqemacs | 14:12 |
| johnx | not in the classic sense, but in the functional sense of the word | 14:12 |
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| GAN800 | Ahaha | 14:13 |
| lcuk | johnx, its not starting, ive simply started to move the stuff ive been coding for years on home machine | 14:13 |
| lcuk | jott keeps teasing me with "liqos" | 14:13 |
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| lcuk | i kinda like the idea tbh | 14:13 |
| johnx | oh, seems totally reasonable to me | 14:13 |
| GAN800 | lcuk's gonna be shipping tablets in 5 years | 14:13 |
| johnx | you need a scripting language though, maybe python? | 14:14 |
| Stskeeps | johnx: and stream of consciousness is what happens when i write when i'm running a fever :P | 14:14 |
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| Stskeeps | johnx: lisp.. ;> | 14:14 |
| lcuk | GAN800, tablets are just one part of my main scheme | 14:14 |
| lcuk | liqsp | 14:14 |
| johnx | scheme/lisp or python seems reasonable | 14:14 |
| lcuk | the tablet will never be the perfect envionment to manage things fully | 14:14 |
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| lcuk | but its right to take with you - but when i sit down at a big desk it should open up into it | 14:15 |
| GAN800 | lcuk's gonna be the next Steve Jobs. | 14:15 |
| lcuk | no, im not following anyone :) | 14:15 |
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| * lcuk is making his own path | 14:15 | |
| GAN800 | liqLife | 14:16 |
| johnx | lcuk, make it sync to a remote server, not the desktop (or at least sync via IP) | 14:16 |
| johnx | Stskeeps, it's good that you wrote that. Because of the amount of effort you've put in when you say something like "this was a pain" it has a lot of weight to it. And, I hope you get better from the fever! | 14:17 |
| lcuk | johnx, this is the crossroads im at - i could simply put the server code directly into liqbase and allow any instance to become a master - but that requires me to have a linuxdesktop, but that needs to be touchscreen - aka eee) or i can use the server code ive already got in windows and in visual basic | 14:17 |
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| johnx | lcuk, is there a reason the server needs to have a UI? | 14:17 |
| zap | liqos won't run without a touchscreen? | 14:17 |
| lcuk | yes, but to allow my creative juices to flow i need a touchscreen desktop | 14:18 |
| lcuk | no johnx, but i like the idea of it | 14:18 |
| lcuk | the third alternative is to actually get some metal at liqbase.net and host it there headless (well with a web interface) | 14:18 |
| johnx | why not be client/server? | 14:18 |
| lcuk | but i dont like the web as much as touching stuff | 14:18 |
| lcuk | p2p is actually better | 14:19 |
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| lcuk | just some peers are better than others :) | 14:19 |
| lcuk | ie my desktop peer has a larger interface | 14:19 |
| lcuk | and more storage | 14:19 |
| lcuk | i wouldnt expect to keep or display the complete rivers from lots of friends on my tablet | 14:19 |
| lcuk | gahhh! i need an eee touchscreen | 14:20 |
| lcuk | if anyone knows anyone at asus please ask them to send me a demo model ;) | 14:20 |
| johnx | is a touchsreen eee confirmed? | 14:20 |
| lcuk | yes | 14:21 |
| lcuk | desktop model | 14:21 |
| johnx | huh | 14:21 |
| johnx | strange choice | 14:21 |
| lcuk | http://www.pcpro.co.uk/news/230295/asus-launches-touchscreen-eee-desktop.html | 14:21 |
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| lcuk | nice choice cos it would just replace my monitor here and its touch based and preinstalled with linux and ready to go with no messing | 14:21 |
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| lcuk | all the boxes ticked | 14:21 |
| * lcuk wants to pair the tablet and the desktop together | 14:22 | |
| lcuk | and have everything work nicely | 14:22 |
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| johnx | a tablet PC running linux and a little easel-type stand for it sounds better to me, but the "linux pre-installed and working" requirement is tough to meet | 14:22 |
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| lcuk | thats where the eee comes in | 14:23 |
| lcuk | its PERFECT for me, i really hate messing installing shit | 14:23 |
| lcuk | it wastes so much time | 14:23 |
| lcuk | and takes my mind away from important stuff | 14:23 |
| johnx | ah, the divergent paths of programmers and sys admins :) | 14:24 |
| lcuk | yes | 14:24 |
| lcuk | drivers and mechanics :) | 14:24 |
| lcuk | both as important as the other | 14:24 |
| johnx | mechanics and engineers | 14:24 |
| GAN800 | ^ | 14:25 |
| lcuk | anyway, if anyone happens upon an asus person could you ask.. :D | 14:26 |
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| qwerty12 | tf, I just read asus as anus >.< | 14:26 |
| johnx | sure. and if those things show up around me first I'll figure out a way to get one posted to you :) | 14:27 |
| lcuk | heh | 14:27 |
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| lcuk | :) johnx | 14:27 |
| johnx | probably not though | 14:27 |
| johnx | I mean they probably won't show up here first | 14:27 |
| lcuk | im gonna go see if i can setup a basic server anyway | 14:28 |
| * lcuk tosses a coin, heads its vb, tails linux | 14:28 | |
| lcuk | :) liqbase is havin a server component | 14:29 |
| johnx | so they'll just "sync" by throwing some files across? | 14:29 |
| lcuk | yer, the user creates a stream of data files (stamped with user and time and type) currently on their machine | 14:30 |
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| lcuk | if i want to sync from yours i just grab all your files - they shouldnt conflict | 14:30 |
| johnx | so I can just sync it to my public webspace and pull it down on my desktop? | 14:30 |
| lcuk | yes | 14:31 |
| lcuk | thats the kind of thinking | 14:31 |
| johnx | hot sauce. That's the GUI-less "server" I wanted | 14:31 |
| lcuk | yeah | 14:31 |
| johnx | and the desktop and tablet are both clients | 14:31 |
| lcuk | or one can be the master | 14:32 |
| johnx | sounds fair. so we are just disagreeing on semantics, not content :) | 14:32 |
| lcuk | itunes-ipod | 14:32 |
| lcuk | yeah | 14:32 |
| johnx | as long as I can continue to make my desktop less relevant, I'm happy | 14:33 |
| lcuk | i want everything to be doable on tablet, but when desktop is available to allow the same data to be opened up and be more configurable in a larger arena | 14:33 |
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| lcuk | some things are simply better to be managed in a large form factor than others - but those same things should still be possible in a more compact space | 14:34 |
| johnx | and I want to be able to pull all of "my stuff" down onto whatever machine I happen to be sitting at | 14:34 |
| lcuk | yes | 14:34 |
| johnx | I'm with you 100% | 14:34 |
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| lcuk | bbl :) nice chattin guys | 14:37 |
| johnx | later | 14:37 |
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| hellwolf | I installed mediastreamer, but it doesn't support ogg/flac yet, what should I do | 15:25 |
| lcuk | code it up | 15:25 |
| lcuk | shouldnt take you more than a couple of hours if you start now | 15:26 |
| * lcuk laughs evily | 15:26 | |
| hellwolf | well, actually, I made it work on my N800. But I forgot what to install now.. | 15:27 |
| lcuk | add your workings to the wiki next time and everyone can learn | 15:27 |
| lcuk | and you will know next time you need it | 15:27 |
| hellwolf | it's too late | 15:28 |
| Jaffa | qwerty12_N800: I'm not having much luck installing anything. I think my sbox is screwed up; given it's been upgraded from the chinook beta. | 15:29 |
| Jaffa | Half the i18n symbols aren't there. | 15:29 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Jaffa, ah. I just reinstalled sbox. The quick compile of h-a-m trunk i did won't show packages in user/ | 15:32 |
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| lcuk | very quick question | 15:44 |
| lcuk | i have 2 nokias here | 15:45 |
| lcuk | if i connect them via the wifi can i make saving a file into one folder on one nokia automatically save onto the folder on the other | 15:45 |
| lcuk | without me changing my code | 15:45 |
| zap | if you use gnome-vfs, yes | 15:46 |
| zap | via bluetooth | 15:46 |
| lopz | hola | 15:47 |
| lcuk | i use scp to my windows desktop to do this kind of thing already but its not properly in the filesystem i have to use a custom browser | 15:47 |
| lcuk | hiya lopz | 15:47 |
| zap | vfs is a layer above file systems | 15:48 |
| zap | you use its functions instead of open(), read() and so on | 15:48 |
| zap | then you may use URLs like http:// or file:// or something else | 15:48 |
| zap | and on maemo vfs supports bluetooth | 15:48 |
| zap | I'm not sure how a bluetooth url looks like | 15:49 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Jaffa, Though there is probably numerous bugfixes in h-a-m ; the only new thing I noticed was in the red pill settings dialog - "Use apt-get algorithms" | 15:49 |
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| lcuk | then its not transparent to the app | 15:50 |
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| qwerty12_N800 | Bollocks... "/dev/mtdblock4 14.3M 94% /" - Looks like i need to modify localepurge to work on maemo again... | 15:52 |
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| johnx | lcuk, sshfs | 15:53 |
| lcuk | no they have gone now, my stomachs feeling better | 15:53 |
| johnx | hmm? anyways, grab sshfs from extras I think, and sshfs lcuk@tablet2:/home/user /home/user/local/mount-dir | 15:56 |
| lcuk | nice! | 15:58 |
| lcuk | im just going to get N2 connected directly into the brain of N1 | 15:58 |
| johnx | it's based on fuse (filesystem in user space) which lets you do some damn neat things | 15:58 |
| lcuk | any sketching or photos taken on 1 tablet will be instantly available on the other | 15:58 |
| lcuk | nice johnx | 15:59 |
| johnx | just copy them into that directory | 15:59 |
| lcuk | yeah im going to | 15:59 |
| lcuk | thanks | 15:59 |
| johnx | another reason to be on an all-Unix ecosystem :) | 16:00 |
| lcuk | heh i just need the desktop :P :D | 16:00 |
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| johnx | mkdir /home/user/foo ; sshfs user@N2:/home/user /home/user/foo | 16:05 |
| johnx | ^alomost certainly what you want^ | 16:06 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Anyone experiencing problems with the transmission in diablo extras-devel btw? | 16:06 |
| johnx | now off to bed :) | 16:06 |
| lcuk | johnx, :) thank you very much, good night | 16:08 |
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| RST38h | moo again | 16:13 |
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| AstralStorm | ahh, I know why Nokia would coop with Kodak | 16:24 |
| AstralStorm | http://www.engadget.com/2008/10/24/new-kodak-oled-material-promises-longer-life-better-colors/ | 16:24 |
| AstralStorm | :) | 16:24 |
| AstralStorm | they read engadget | 16:24 |
| AstralStorm | OLED touchscreen anyone? :P | 16:24 |
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| RST38h | AStorm: There is already a Nokia phone with oled (N85?) | 16:28 |
| AstralStorm | yes | 16:29 |
| AstralStorm | but Kodak has the better OLED | 16:29 |
| RST38h | But I would take the Kodak news with a grain of salt: better OLEDs come out every few months or so from different sources | 16:29 |
| AstralStorm | yup | 16:29 |
| RST38h | The technology isn't quite ready for large screens yet though | 16:29 |
| AstralStorm | what stops Nokia from grabbing the current best? | 16:29 |
| RST38h | Degrades too quickly | 16:29 |
| AstralStorm | 4" is not large screen | 16:29 |
| AstralStorm | n900 OLED anyone? | 16:29 |
| RST38h | Large enough for OLEDs, sorry | 16:29 |
| AstralStorm | not | 16:29 |
| AstralStorm | Kodak managed 8" | 16:29 |
| RST38h | If I were Nokia I would rather collaborate with Philips | 16:30 |
| AstralStorm | at 800x480 coincidentally | 16:30 |
| RST38h | Sony managed ~14", it just does not live long | 16:30 |
| AstralStorm | with long life :) | 16:30 |
| RST38h | How long? =) | 16:30 |
| AstralStorm | read the article | 16:30 |
| AstralStorm | they say 65k hours | 16:30 |
| AstralStorm | better than plasma already | 16:31 |
| RST38h | 65000 hours? | 16:31 |
| AstralStorm | yup | 16:31 |
| RST38h | It is not difficult to be better than plasma. 8 hours of howing a static picture trashes plasma | 16:31 |
| AstralStorm | :> | 16:31 |
| * RST38h looking up LCD lifetimes | 16:31 | |
| AstralStorm | I suspect they're twice | 16:32 |
| RST38h | The lifetime of the CCFL (the light behind the panel) is in the range of 25000 to 50000 hours until the CCFL can only attain 1/2 original maximum brightness. | 16:32 |
| RST38h | Lifetime of the LCD panel itself is around 300000 hours. | 16:32 |
| AstralStorm | mhm | 16:32 |
| RST38h | So "yes" and "no" :) | 16:32 |
| AstralStorm | so it's better and not :) | 16:32 |
| AstralStorm | good enough anyway | 16:32 |
| RST38h | LED-lit LCD should do wonders | 16:32 |
| AstralStorm | but LEDs have life similar to OLED | 16:32 |
| AstralStorm | :P | 16:32 |
| RST38h | Actually, Nokia usually uses LED-lit LCDs | 16:32 |
| RST38h | No. | 16:32 |
| AstralStorm | well, longer than CCFL | 16:33 |
| RST38h | You are mistaking LEDs for OLEDs. They are different anymals | 16:33 |
| RST38h | animals | 16:33 |
| RST38h | LED will live pretty much forever as long as you do not let it heat up too much | 16:33 |
| RST38h | OLED has organic components and will degrade, especially if contacted with air | 16:34 |
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| Jaffa | First bit was easy: http://bleb.org/software/maemo/h-a-m-grid.png | 17:33 |
| lcuk | ouchy jaffa, can you tint them so the main sections look very slightly different | 17:34 |
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| * Jaffa wants to hide everything but the "standard" sections (pushing everything into 'Other') | 17:35 | |
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| Jaffa | However, I also want to use the same list view, as that should make supporting sub-categories easier. | 17:35 |
| * Jaffa goes to finish watching _Back to the Future 2_, first though | 17:35 | |
| lcuk | have you seen how i am trying to view the folder tree in liqbase? | 17:35 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Nice work, Jaffa | 17:35 |
| * Jaffa realises how much he hates doing stuff like this in C. For example, in a real language I'd use a hashmap of sections to build up the package list rather than an array of structs. | 17:36 | |
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| lcuk | jaffa - could you make that a tag cloud ;) show the sections size according to how many packages they contain? crashanddie did something similar in sdl i believe | 17:38 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: You can use hashmap in C | 17:46 |
| RST38h | Once you implement it of course :) | 17:46 |
| RST38h | gentlemen, please, DO NOT show sections with rectangles of different size. It is very cool but absolute bitch to work with, especially when you need something from a small section | 17:48 |
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| lcuk | RST38h, i simply mean expanding the ones with more in - and it works really nicely : liqbase has something like it for sketches | 18:01 |
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| qwerty12 | ~burn maemo.org | 18:04 |
| * infobot pours gasoline all over maemo.org, ignites the fire, and then enjoys some toasty marshmallows with the glorious blaze | 18:04 | |
| mouser- | Yum...toasted Debian. | 18:06 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: I'd thought of doing a tagcloud type thing, but a) concluded it could be a bitch with a section which contains a single package; b) I'd rather have it consistent with the sub-categories; c) there's no tagcloud widget that already exists, so I'll have to create one in a Gtk text area - and I'm lazy. | 18:10 |
| * RST38h politely asks Jaffa not to get fancy and copy iPhone UI | 18:10 | |
| lcuk | heh jaffa, totally understand - cant wait for vala to be faster on device :) | 18:11 |
| Jaffa | RST38h: trust me, with Gtk+; my rusty skills and no good Gtk+ documentation, complex widgets or rich data types, it ain't gonna happen. | 18:11 |
| Jaffa | lcuk: :) | 18:11 |
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| RST38h | Jaffa: Should I tell you exactly how? | 18:13 |
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| RST38h | The documentation is somewhat lacking but it is not that bad | 18:16 |
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| camel_liu | hi, everybody | 18:19 |
| camel_liu | When I make monkey bubble, it returns 'make[2]: *** No rule to make target `monkey-bubble.schemas', needed by `all-am'. Stop.' | 18:20 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: You want this widget: http://maemo.org/api_refs/4.1/gtk+2.0-2.10.12/libgtk2.0/GtkIconView.html | 18:21 |
| camel_liu | What does it mean? | 18:21 |
| RST38h | it means your makefile is broken | 18:21 |
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| RST38h | Setting rows and columns and spacing is obvious | 18:22 |
| * Jaffa adds the existing patch to #3103 | 18:23 | |
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| camel_liu | ?? | 18:23 |
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| camel_liu | talking with me? | 18:23 |
| Jaffa | No | 18:24 |
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| camel_liu | I checkout monkey bubble like this 'svn checkout https://garage.maemo.org/svn/maemoexamples/tags/maemo_4.1/maemo-monkey-bubble/' | 18:24 |
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| camel_liu | just install librsvg, nothing else | 18:25 |
| * qwerty12 grabs Jaffa's patch, thanks! | 18:25 | |
| melmoth | camel_liu: did you try rebuild all the autotools stuff with ./autogen.sh ? | 18:27 |
| camel_liu | yes, I run ./autogen.sh | 18:28 |
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| camel_liu | melmoth, see http://pastebin.ca/1237018 | 18:31 |
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| camel_liu | Have any idea? | 18:35 |
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| Jaffa | qwerty12: what was the bug with your anti-nag patch? I'll at least put the reading of it in settings.cc so it can be read from ~/.osso/hildon-application-manager | 18:36 |
| pupnik810 | hi ssvb | 18:37 |
| ssvb | hi pupnik810 | 18:37 |
| qwerty12 | Jaffa: Ah, the settings.cc part is done correctly, I'm having trouble with the if statements in operations.cc | 18:37 |
| pupnik810 | what is new with you | 18:38 |
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| Jaffa | qwerty12: to do what? Should just be a case of adding an early exit to util.cc:scare_user_with_legalese() if the flag is set, no? | 18:38 |
| * Jaffa should look at your patch before commenting :) | 18:39 | |
| Jaffa | Found it: #2710 | 18:39 |
| qwerty12 | Jaffa: That's the old one which gives the user no choice in the matter :) | 18:40 |
| qwerty12 | Wait a sec, I'll dig up my settings.cc & settings.h | 18:40 |
| Jaffa | A brute force patch, that ;-) | 18:40 |
| ssvb | pupnik810: not much new regarding coding/optimizing stuff, mostly looking for an apartment to rent at the moment | 18:40 |
| solmumaha | hi pupnik810 | 18:41 |
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| camel_liu | Could anyone take a look http://pastebin.ca/1237018, make error of monkey bubble | 18:43 |
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| qwerty12 | Jaffa: http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/temp/settings.cc & http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/temp/settings.h (Sorry, I'm too lazy to diff it). That part is implemented correctly, the value is saved and read for the legal stuff. The problem I had was integrating it with the operations.cc where the function to call the install stuff actually comes. I came up with this in the end which doesn't work [well]: http://slexy.org/view/s2qgfE3auX . If you | 18:44 |
| qwerty12 | look at the original operations.cc, you will see what I was trying to do | 18:44 |
| * Jaffa grabs | 18:44 | |
| camel_liu | In Linux, configure, compile, make are so complex and difficult to figure out | 18:44 |
| pupnik810 | hi solmumaha ... need to get internet (umts) this week | 18:46 |
| pupnik810 | then back in biz... | 18:46 |
| solmumaha | back for good? | 18:46 |
| RST38h | camel: You do not need this stuff | 18:49 |
| melmoth | crap, i destroyed my scracthbox env | 18:49 |
| camel_liu | waht? | 18:49 |
| qwerty12 | melmoth: I've done that 5 times :( | 18:49 |
| camel_liu | What do you mean that I do not need it? | 18:50 |
| melmoth | isn it a good time for a fresh nice reinstall ? | 18:50 |
| qwerty12 | Heh, I'm going to do that when I reformat (and resize) my ubuntu install when I install intrepid | 18:51 |
| qwerty12 | To me, a ubuntu upgrade is never as complete as a windows upgrade :/ | 18:51 |
| melmoth | my scrarchbox was in a debian xen vm. | 18:52 |
| melmoth | well, it s still there. | 18:52 |
| melmoth | it s just that all python things reguse to import gconf module anymore. | 18:52 |
| RST38h | Jaffa: http://pastebin.ca/984820 | 18:52 |
| RST38h | and go from there | 18:52 |
| melmoth | let s reinstall a fresh vm. Will not hurt. | 18:52 |
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| camel_liu | RST38h, I need to study how to develop a program like monkey bubble, so I need it. | 18:53 |
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| Jaffa | RST38h: ta | 18:56 |
| camel_liu | I want to develop a game program on N800, which is capable of supporting multi player over network. | 18:57 |
| camel_liu | RST38h, do you have any suggestion? | 18:58 |
| camel_liu | I need some prototype | 18:58 |
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| Jaffa | qwerty12: I've attached a newer version of your patch which does the Right Thing[TM] (IMNSHO) in operations.cc | 19:05 |
| * Jaffa foods. | 19:05 | |
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| qwerty12 | Jaffa: Ah, I see it on #2710. Thank you! | 19:06 |
| melmoth | camel_liu: http://ezide.com/games/writing-games.html | 19:08 |
| pupnik810 | camel_liu, many network games available .. www.pupnik.de | 19:10 |
| pupnik810 | ooo | 19:10 |
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| pupnik810 | well i gotta run cu! | 19:12 |
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| camel_liu | I'm not going to program a game on Windows, though I know something about it. My target is N800 and maemo. But I'm new in maemo and linux as well. So I want to begin with a sample and I choosed 'monkey bubble'. | 19:26 |
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| camel_liu | melmoth and pupnik810, could you tell me such a sample that I can follow? | 19:27 |
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| melmoth | camel_liu: i would suggest you read the whole article i pasted. It had been a great help to me. | 19:28 |
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| RST38h | camel: It may come as a surprise to you but from my point of view Maemo programming is very straightforward while programming anything on Windows is a mess | 19:35 |
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| RST38h | [as in "no main(), no uniform device control, no system-level libc, etc") | 19:36 |
| Proteous | NO HEART!! | 19:36 |
| camel_liu | melmoth, the most difficult things to me are config, compile and make in linux world. Programing is not that difficult, but the things after that is hard. | 19:36 |
| RST38h | I can live with no heart | 19:36 |
| Proteous | NO SPLEEN!! | 19:36 |
| RST38h | But no hands and no legs are kinda taxing | 19:37 |
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| Proteous | heh | 19:37 |
| Proteous | TAX ALL HANDS AND LEGS FOR GREAT PROFIT!! | 19:37 |
| RST38h | camel: 1. You do not need config. | 19:37 |
| Proteous | CONFIG > YOU | 19:37 |
| melmoth | the article i mentionned will not teach you anything about makefile, it s not even a C article. Though, it s really interesting if your issue was "multiplayer network game" | 19:37 |
| RST38h | camel: 2. Make is the same as on Windows, the only reason why you do not know it is because MSVC does it for you | 19:37 |
| RST38h | camel: 3. Both Linux and Windows compile C/C++ into native code so I do not see what is "difficult" about compilation | 19:38 |
| RST38h | melmoth: Wrong article then. A moment. | 19:38 |
| camel_liu | Yes, in MSVS, we can focus on program itself | 19:38 |
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| RST38h | same in Unix | 19:39 |
| camel_liu | I have developed many programs in Windows. But It's totally different thing in Linux | 19:39 |
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| RST38h | In fact, in MSVC I mostly focus on how to avoid crashing it | 19:39 |
| Proteous | I once ate an apple that was totaly different then an orange | 19:39 |
| Proteous | it was scary because there were both fruit | 19:40 |
| Proteous | I wasn't prepared | 19:40 |
| RST38h | Proteous: Did it leave a permanent psychological scar? | 19:40 |
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| Proteous | YES! | 19:40 |
| * Proteous cries | 19:40 | |
| RST38h | Did it make you gay maybe? | 19:40 |
| RST38h | =) | 19:40 |
| Proteous | :P | 19:40 |
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| RST38h | camel: A moment. I am looking for a really simple maemo example | 19:41 |
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| camel_liu | Is there any sample little game in maemo that deals with multiplayer over network? | 19:41 |
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| camel_liu | RST38h, ok, thanks | 19:42 |
| Proteous | only flash based | 19:42 |
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| RST38h | Multiplayer over network is doe via TCP/IP | 19:43 |
| RST38h | You can learn about TCP/IP from a lot of books | 19:43 |
| camel_liu | I know about TCP/IP. | 19:44 |
| Proteous | Totaly Cool Protocal/Idiot Protocal | 19:44 |
| RST38h | Then use your knowledge | 19:44 |
| Proteous | but only for good | 19:45 |
| jaska | to see pee i pee? | 19:45 |
| camel_liu | What I want is frame of that game in MAEMO. | 19:45 |
| RST38h | camel: Read this tutorial for general maemo programming example: http://maemo.org/development/documentation/tutorials/maemo_bora_3-x_tutorial.html | 19:45 |
| RST38h | It will not require you to use configure | 19:45 |
| camel_liu | Read a goog sample in MAEMO is the best way to learn, I think | 19:46 |
| camel_liu | I have the tutorial, reference and manual of Diablo. | 19:47 |
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| camel_liu | I want to read a good sample game of maemo, and follow it to avoid config, compile and make issue. | 19:48 |
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| camel_liu | Though I think I cannot, I still think it is better than begin with blank. | 19:49 |
| camel_liu | How about the game 'Biloba'? | 19:50 |
| RST38h | IMHO you should go look at sample source code, read documentation, and come here for concrete answer once you get concrete questions | 19:52 |
| camel_liu | souns good. | 19:52 |
| camel_liu | However, is 'monkey bubble' in the diablo reference manual? | 19:53 |
| camel_liu | but it cannot work out | 19:54 |
| camel_liu | The reference use 'monkey bubble' as a sample of porting,. | 19:54 |
| camel_liu | And said, "Everything should go fine, and the game should be compiled properly." | 19:55 |
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| camel_liu | If tutorial, reference and manual cannot do their work, who need them? | 19:57 |
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| camel_liu | when I run ./autogen.sh, it said, 'Please add the files codeset.m4 gettext.m4 glibc21.m4 iconv.m4 isc-posix.m4 lcmessage.m4 progtest.m4 from the /usr/share/aclocal directory to your autoconf macro directory or directly to your aclocal.m4 file.' What does it mean? | 20:02 |
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| RST38h | Forget Monkey Bubble. If it does not compile, forget it. | 20:10 |
| RST38h | There is plenty other Maemo games | 20:10 |
| * Proteous cries for Monkeys | 20:11 | |
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| RST38h | Here is a repository with indT games source code: https://garage.maemo.org/plugins/scmsvn/viewcvs.php/?root=indtgames | 20:13 |
| ssvb | camel_liu: try http://www.pupnik.de/aliens-1.0.2_Nokia.tgz from http://maemo.org/community/wiki/GameDevelopment/ | 20:13 |
| RST38h | Pick any one you want, look at it, just don't ask questions before you understand what exactly you want to know | 20:13 |
| Proteous | how are dill pickles | 20:13 |
| ssvb | camel_liu: and makefiles are really simple, every software developer should have absolutely no problem getting familiar with them | 20:15 |
| Proteous | I got familiar with a make file once, she slapped me | 20:16 |
| qwerty12 | Jaffa: ping | 20:16 |
| Proteous | qwerty12: pong | 20:16 |
| qwerty12 | Proteous: Hey Jaffa :p | 20:16 |
| Proteous | :P | 20:16 |
| Proteous | qwerty12: marco | 20:17 |
| qwerty12 | hehe | 20:17 |
| Proteous | I can make the lights on my router and modem blink by typing | 20:18 |
| Proteous | it's mezmorizing | 20:18 |
| * Proteous falls into a trance | 20:18 | |
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| qwerty12 | lol, I can type echo i12 > /proc/led on my router and the internet light blinks 20 times | 20:19 |
| Proteous | it's like magic | 20:19 |
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| lardman | evening | 20:20 |
| Proteous | not yet | 20:20 |
| qwerty12 | ello lardman | 20:20 |
| Proteous | it's only 11:20am | 20:20 |
| qwerty12 | Proteous: is here :p | 20:20 |
| lardman | ;) | 20:20 |
| Proteous | lies! | 20:20 |
| qwerty12 | NEVA | 20:20 |
| lardman | I know, ugt | 20:20 |
| yacoob | qwerty12, 'h-e-l-p-i-m-t-r-a-p-p-e-d-i-n-t-h-e-P-R-O-M-c-h-i-p' :) | 20:20 |
| qwerty12 | yacoob: Let's burn you out! :) | 20:21 |
| Proteous | timezones are just a fiction created by the government to explain away the fact that they put us to sleep and operate on use when we fly in airplanes | 20:21 |
| Proteous | luckly my pants double as a faraday cage so they can't read the tracking device they installed | 20:22 |
| Proteous | muhahahha | 20:22 |
| lardman | hmm, where did they install it! | 20:22 |
| Proteous | don't ask | 20:22 |
| lardman | Ah, from the timezone you're American | 20:22 |
| lardman | pants are different over here | 20:22 |
| lardman | :D | 20:22 |
| Proteous | heh | 20:22 |
| Proteous | you and your trousers | 20:23 |
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| camel_liu | RST38h, Sorry to bother you. What I want is a sample including everything I need. So I can learn how everything implemented in maemo. I want to start with a good sample for my life in maemo. I've browse the garage for several days. How about the game Biloba (https://garage.maemo.org/projects/biloba/) ? | 20:24 |
| Proteous | I want some coffee, RST38h can you come over and make me some? | 20:24 |
| Proteous | I'll take some sugar and a touch of milk | 20:24 |
| Proteous | oh, you'll have to pick up some milk on the way over, I'm all out | 20:25 |
| camel_liu | I want a sample from expert. It's little, brief and correct with what I want. | 20:25 |
| Proteous | </sarcasm> | 20:25 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Proteous, mind going Mexico and sourcing me some ganja while RST38h makes the coffee? | 20:25 |
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| Proteous | just ask RST38h to get that on the way too | 20:25 |
| Proteous | and make it snappy | 20:25 |
| Proteous | my coffee beans are from Mexico | 20:25 |
| qwerty12_N800 | hehe | 20:26 |
| sjagan | is it the right place to ask maemo 4.1.1 install issue? | 20:27 |
| Proteous | sure | 20:28 |
| Proteous | the real question you should be asking is if this is the right place to get an answer for a memo 4.1.1 install issue | 20:28 |
| Proteous | maemo | 20:28 |
| Proteous | finding Maemo | 20:28 |
| Proteous | another Nokia classic | 20:29 |
| Proteous | were a small tablet tries to find his way back to his mother | 20:29 |
| Proteous | touching story really | 20:29 |
| lardman | sjagan: Go for it, don't let the banter deter you | 20:29 |
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| * Proteous shuts up and goes to make coffee | 20:29 | |
| lardman | lol | 20:30 |
| sjagan | thanks. I was trying to install maemo. Running sh maemo-sdk-install_4.1.1.sh | 20:30 |
| sjagan | always time out at the end | 20:30 |
| sjagan | with chinook, i never had this problem | 20:30 |
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| lardman | no idea off the top of my head, what does the script try to download that times out? | 20:31 |
| sjagan | Here is the message | 20:31 |
| sjagan | Failed to fetch http://repository.maemo.org/pool/maemo4.1.1/free/s/samba/libsmbclient-dev_3.0.23c-1osso11_i386.deb Error reading from server - read (104 Connection reset by peer) [IP: 96.17.109.90 80] | 20:31 |
| sjagan | it is able to 'Get' 425 files and it always gets reset here | 20:32 |
| lardman | hmm, interesting | 20:32 |
| Mousey | so does anyone know if this is usable? i mean, if i go and do this will i be happy or is it really just for proof of concept hackery: | 20:32 |
| Mousey | http://sse2.net/rotate/ | 20:32 |
| Jaffa | qwerty12_N800: pohg | 20:33 |
| Stskeeps | sjagan: get the newest .sh | 20:33 |
| Jaffa | (ish) | 20:33 |
| Stskeeps | sjagan: there was a old one that didn't work with the broken servers | 20:33 |
| Jaffa | lardman: started doing some hildon-app-mgr hacking today | 20:33 |
| lardman | Jaffa: yes, I was just catching up on the mailing list | 20:33 |
| lardman | Jaffa: looks good | 20:33 |
| l7 | Mousey: that looks neat | 20:33 |
| Jaffa | #2710 and the category one | 20:34 |
| Mousey | l7 yah, i'm please to be wanting to trying it.. but i fake broken inglish bad | 20:34 |
| sjagan | stskeeps, thanks my .sh is a week old. it may be a good idea. i will try with the new one today | 20:34 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Jaffa, you forgot to patch the warning when installing a deb from the file system as opposed to a repo: http://slexy.org/view/s20Z7nCM1g (tested) | 20:35 |
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| Jaffa | qwerty12_N800: damn, will fix when I get home | 20:36 |
| qwerty12_N800 | thanks :) | 20:37 |
| Jaffa | sorry | 20:37 |
| lardman | sjagan: are you running out of disk space or something funny like that? | 20:39 |
| ameng | hi, where i can get n810 hardware manual? | 20:39 |
| RST38h | camel_liu: I am available for contract work. | 20:40 |
| RST38h | Otherwise, I am afraid you will have to do your own searching, reading, and learning | 20:40 |
| Proteous | what about my coffee | 20:40 |
| Jaffa | Interesting that mvo's already implemented the red-pill non-persistence already in svn (was good to see) | 20:41 |
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| * RST38h hands Proteous some castor beans | 20:41 | |
| RST38h | Here. Coffee. | 20:41 |
| * lardman goes to find a drink and let all the emails/forum posts sink in | 20:41 | |
| Proteous | don't let them sink into your drink to far | 20:41 |
| RST38h | "Politico is reporting that Sarah Palin has had enough with what her handlers are telling her to do. She blames them for her increasingly negative public image and wants to be herself." | 20:42 |
| RST38h | Please, PLEASE let her! | 20:42 |
| Proteous | lol | 20:43 |
| RST38h | She can start by thinning DC squirrel populatio | 20:43 |
| Jaffa | Hmm. I think, thinking about it, the last SSU broke my modest auto-update | 20:43 |
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| Proteous | I try to be extravagant with my auto-updates | 20:44 |
| lardman | RST38h: she can come over here and kill off a few of the gray interploers too! :) | 20:44 |
| camel_liu | RST38h, What do you mean? available for contract work? I do not ask you to write one. I just ask if you happen to know some good sample that fits my requirement. | 20:44 |
| lardman | interlopers that should be, not interpreters or any other possible type | 20:45 |
| Proteous | heh | 20:45 |
| RST38h | lardman: Judging from the article quoted at dailyrotten, you are doing jolly fine job on that without her =) | 20:45 |
| RST38h | camel_liu> No. | 20:46 |
| camel_liu | Got it. | 20:46 |
| lardman | well a few reds have been found to be immune to the gray's virus | 20:46 |
| RST38h | SELECT * FROM World WHERE it is exactly what camel_liu wants | 20:46 |
| camel_liu | SQL | 20:46 |
| RST38h | Query returned 0 records. | 20:46 |
| RST38h | lardman: Super reds! | 20:47 |
| lardman | ah I see the link: http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2008/oct/19/red-squirrels-protection | 20:47 |
| lardman | go you reds! | 20:47 |
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| RST38h | yep | 20:47 |
| AFBN810 | Hey | 20:47 |
| lardman | with inflation the way it is we may be eating more squirrel anyway, grays have more meat on them too | 20:48 |
| RST38h | probably less healthy, being American food stuff... | 20:49 |
| derf | You're going to have more problems with deflation in the near term than inflation. | 20:49 |
| RST38h | derf: That we do not know yet | 20:49 |
| derf | I'm pretty sure the central banks can't print enough money to replace all the credit that just disappeared. | 20:50 |
| AFBN810 | has mcontacts ever been releashed? | 20:50 |
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| RST38h | At the end it is still not real money | 20:50 |
| lardman | derf: million pound notes | 20:50 |
| RST38h | So printing it will lead to inflation, unless banks take it and stash it somewhere or burn it, turning it back into unreal electronic account balances | 20:51 |
| derf | These days they don't actually "print" money, they sell bonds. | 20:51 |
| derf | There aren't enough people to actually buy that many bonds. | 20:51 |
| derf | Anyway... inflation is caused by a wage price spiral... which is pretty hard to sustain when people are losing jobs. | 20:52 |
| RST38h | any excess of money released into general population will cause inflation | 20:53 |
| RST38h | even if this money is given as mortgages | 20:53 |
| derf | Sure... but wage price spiral is the mechanism. | 20:53 |
| derf | I don't think you can cause inflation with mortgages so long as housing prices are falling. | 20:54 |
| RST38h | well, not gonna see wage increases any time soon | 20:54 |
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| derf | RST38h: That is, in fact, my point. | 20:54 |
| melmoth | grumble... i think i have a scratchbox environnemnt ready again..Only 3 hours lost. | 20:54 |
| RST38h | in fact, mine are shrinking, as they are in RUR | 20:54 |
| RST38h | melmoth: [whispering] SB2. | 20:55 |
| Stskeeps | SB2 seems smart but also caused me to want to rip my eyes out after trying to set it up with a standard debian.. | 20:55 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 20:56 |
| derf | It's funny, I swear last week everyone was talking about how financially sound Russia was. | 20:56 |
| derf | This week... not so much. | 20:56 |
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| melmoth | i never try it. I just launch what the maemo site tells me to do without trying to use my brain. | 20:56 |
| melmoth | up to now.. it worked | 20:56 |
| * Stskeeps would really use distcc + a tablet if he had to compile maemo stuff now | 20:57 | |
| camel_liu | melmoth, Congratulation! Do you install maemo SDK? | 20:57 |
| Stskeeps | reverse of scratchbox, but it is more sane | 20:57 |
| melmoth | yep. | 20:57 |
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| camel_liu | It cost me three days. | 20:58 |
| melmoth | I had one camel_liu , but to tell the truth, i just broke it trying to see if i was able to compile your bublle thingy | 20:58 |
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| melmoth | i never though installing libglade could result in having python2.5 not being able to use gconf anymore :) | 20:58 |
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| Stskeeps | melmoth: welcome to maemo sdk | 21:00 |
| Stskeeps | :P | 21:00 |
| camel_liu | Is 'monkey' that strong to break your scratchbox? How lucky I am! | 21:01 |
| RST38h | derf: It is still financially sound | 21:02 |
| melmoth | i think i may have do some apt-get update while having the maemo-extra-devel repository enable or soemthing | 21:03 |
| RST38h | derf: But things are gonna get funny when oil prices go below $60 | 21:03 |
| camel_liu | yes | 21:03 |
| lardman | derf: utility prices are a non-wage price spiral (via raw material costs) of increasing inflation of course | 21:03 |
| lardman | though they've dropped off a cliff now with the recession, which is good | 21:03 |
| RST38h | Especially given the amount of state-fed bureacracy that rose up in the last 5 years | 21:04 |
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| derf | lardman: That's a supply and demand thing, which is healthy. | 21:04 |
| derf | Inflation is a question of money supply. | 21:04 |
| lardman | hmm | 21:04 |
| lardman | cost of living | 21:04 |
| RST38h | lardman: It also means smartphones will never take root in the US now | 21:04 |
| camel_liu | I have to go to sleep. It's 3:00 am in my time zone. see u. | 21:05 |
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| derf | RST38h: And the specific story I was referring to was: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/russia/3248672/Russian-default-risk-tops-Iceland-as-crisis-deepens-financial-crisis.html | 21:05 |
| lardman | not sure the oil/gas thing is actually supply and demand though, it's artificial and heavily influenced by futures | 21:05 |
| RST38h | lardman: Cheap oil -> more driving -> no public transport -> no time to play with gadgets | 21:05 |
| lardman | RST38h: other way round here, I save time driving | 21:06 |
| derf | lardman: It doesn't matter if your cost of living goes up if you can't demand more money from your employer. | 21:06 |
| RST38h | lardman: And if people have to sell their cars, they won't have money for gadget either ;) | 21:06 |
| derf | It simply means you have to spend less somewhere else. | 21:06 |
| derf | That's not inflationary. | 21:06 |
| lardman | derf: of course, but as "inflation" includes cost of living items such as utility prices, it's an inflationary force | 21:06 |
| RST38h | derf: I think the article is a bit too alarmist at this stage | 21:06 |
| RST38h | derf: But let us see what happens in a week or two | 21:07 |
| derf | RST38h: Quite possibly, but I thought the change in sentiment from "Russia is the only one who can bail out Iceland" was dramatic. | 21:07 |
| RST38h | derf: Never heard a sentiment like that | 21:07 |
| RST38h | Although it probably CAN bail out Iceland, given its reserves | 21:08 |
| lardman | interesting to see how the Russian billionaires were so heavily leveraged | 21:08 |
| derf | Well, Iceland asked Russia for help. | 21:08 |
| lardman | s/were/are | 21:08 |
| RST38h | (unless those reserves are already stolen by "civil servants" by investing them into garbage) | 21:08 |
| derf | And over here people were like yeah, because Russia didn't just spend $850bln on a bank bailout. | 21:08 |
| RST38h | derf: Iceland only asked for a few billion | 21:09 |
| lardman | RST38h: I think the point was that the rouble could go one the slide quite easily, which would mean it didn't have the money to do any bailing | 21:09 |
| RST38h | derf: And there is another side to this story people may not know | 21:09 |
| derf | RST38h: I know. We could have done it too, I'm sure. What's a few more billion here or there? | 21:09 |
| derf | But the thing I was pointing out was the sentiment. | 21:09 |
| RST38h | derf: Iceland is one of the biggest offshores. Lots of Russian millionares kept money there | 21:10 |
| derf | RST38h: Haha, that explains a lot. | 21:10 |
| RST38h | derf: Exactly. | 21:10 |
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| RST38h | lardman: Not really | 21:10 |
| * lcuk waves | 21:11 | |
| lardman | hi lcuk | 21:11 |
| RST38h | lardman: If needed, Russian central bank could draw an image of testicles with RUR exchange rate on the charts | 21:11 |
| * lcuk wonders what he came back to | 21:12 | |
| RST38h | lardman: The problem is that it would be futile in the long run anyway, so the central bank isn't doing it | 21:12 |
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| derf | Yeah, it worked so well for them in the early 90's. | 21:12 |
| lardman | RST38h: yes but that would devalue the currency, which would cause people to move their money out of the rouble, etc | 21:12 |
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| e|3k7 | hi | 21:13 |
| RST38h | lardman: And as it is not doing it, and money leaving the country, and easy US-sourced credit dries up, there is huge need for foreign currency (remember, this place imports most of the stuff) | 21:13 |
| e|3k7 | can I update to the latest firmware on os x? | 21:13 |
| RST38h | lardman: End result: RUR falls in relation to USD, but EUR appears to fall in relation to RUR | 21:13 |
| Stskeeps | e|3k7: if you have a PPC mac | 21:13 |
| e|3k7 | intel :/ | 21:14 |
| qwerty12_N800 | e|3k7, use a linux live cd :) | 21:14 |
| RST38h | lardman: they are not just printing it, they are selling and buying it | 21:14 |
| Stskeeps | e|3k7: http://www.nopcode.org/0xFFFF/ might be a possibility, or what qwerty12_N800 said | 21:14 |
| RST38h | lardman: so it does not always devalue currency | 21:14 |
| e|3k7 | i have dual boot but my internets are b0rke in windows | 21:14 |
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| e|3k7 | is there a direct link to the installer i can dld and then boot in windows and install? | 21:15 |
| lardman | RST38h: yes, that's a possibility | 21:15 |
| lardman | RST38h: my crystal ball is broken this week ;) | 21:15 |
| derf | Really, I wouldn't want to play currency markets in this environment. | 21:15 |
| derf | Stuff is getting _really_ hard to predict. | 21:15 |
| RST38h | yep | 21:16 |
| derf | About the only thing I'm still confident in is that the yen carry trade will start to unwind. | 21:16 |
| RST38h | But if I predict DOOM AND THE END OF CIVILIZATION it probably isn't gonna be too far off target | 21:16 |
| qwerty12_N800 | e|3k7, sure, go on tablets-dev (google it) and download the latest image for your device and choose the file in the windows flasher | 21:16 |
| e|3k7 | ty | 21:16 |
| derf | But fortunately, I would never invest in currency anyway. | 21:17 |
| e|3k7 | just found it. i'm sure i could have found it on my own but i like dispelling doubts with you guys | 21:17 |
| e|3k7 | thanks | 21:17 |
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| RST38h | http://gizmodo.com/5061705/smartphone-is-a-dumb-word-we-need-a-new-name | 21:21 |
| RST38h | (why not just use "comlog"?) | 21:21 |
| aquatix | comlog sounds fine to me | 21:21 |
| aquatix | my phone is called comm already btw :) | 21:22 |
| aquatix | *smartphone | 21:22 |
| qwerty12_N800 | With latest ssu, battery info in ftd works: http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/screenies/Ftd-battery.png | 21:22 |
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| e|3k7 | which one is the swap key | 21:25 |
| e|3k7 | the little house? | 21:25 |
| e|3k7 | n800 | 21:25 |
| qwerty12_N800 | yep | 21:26 |
| aquatix | RST38h: or comlink? | 21:27 |
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| e|3k7 | was it penguinbait that made the easy flash > sd card cloner? | 21:35 |
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| Stskeeps | qwerty12_N800: is that on maemo? | 21:38 |
| qwerty12_N800 | Stskeeps, yes | 21:38 |
| Stskeeps | intruiging | 21:39 |
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| RST38h | aquatix: comlink is the link, not a device | 21:47 |
| RST38h | "A draft US Army intelligence report has identified the popular micro-blogging service Twitter as a potential terrorist tool. A chapter titled 'Potential for Terrorist Use of Twitter' notes that Twitter members reported the July Los Angeles earthquake faster than news outlets and activists at the Republican National Convention in Minneapolis used it to provide information on police movements." | 21:49 |
| aquatix | *sigh* | 21:51 |
| aquatix | RST38h: myeah, that's a good point indeed (about the link) | 21:51 |
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| Jaffa | qwerty12_N800: I should've fixed the install-from-file missage. | 21:56 |
| * Jaffa goes to have a beer, do some ironing (Mrs Jaffa is away) and watch a film. | 21:57 | |
| qwerty12_N800 | Jaffa, Cool, thanks. | 21:57 |
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| smokie | Hi, i installed esbox in eclipse ganymede but it doesn't work. When i select maemo project, i'll get "wizzard could not be started .... Any ideas ? | 22:00 |
| e|3k7 | is there something different about microB, seems like it's not responidg very well to clicks? | 22:01 |
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| e|3k7 | oh nm | 22:02 |
| e|3k7 | i had to recalibrate | 22:02 |
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| Proteous | screen calibration to the rescue!! | 22:21 |
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| e|3k7 | flashed and cloned | 22:24 |
| e|3k7 | feel like a newborn baby | 22:24 |
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| zap | RST38h: would be pretty cool if your sliderule would support at least hex numbers :) | 23:02 |
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| BugBlue | hate | 23:52 |
| BugBlue | sscanf does some things different on maemo than on 'normal' linux | 23:52 |
| BugBlue | sscanf("%s %s %s %s %s" gives me 4 filles strings instead of 5 | 23:53 |
| Jaffa | eh? | 23:56 |
| Proteous | don't give mustard to poines | 23:59 |
| Proteous | ponies | 23:59 |
| zap | BugBlue: maemo uses same glibc like normal linux | 23:59 |
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