IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2008-10-24

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l7hmm, i just noticed something about time00:02
l7"time cp" is much faster than "time mv"00:03
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l7i guess mv goes back to verify the data or something00:03
johnxwell it also goes back to delete the other data00:03
johnxbut yes, I could be convinced it's somehow more careful00:04
l7is there some kind of data verification in mv?00:04
l7my disk activity graph goes straight up to 5MB/s and hits a plateau00:05
l7with cp00:05
l7with mv, it hits some 4MB/s spikes, but mostly lives around 700KB/s00:06
l7interesting anyway00:06
l724 seconds for mv compared to 3 seconds for cp00:07
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johnxI always assumed they were basically the same thing for disk to disk transfers00:10
johnxI guess that's why everyone just does cp && rm ...00:10
l7i wonder if there's any advantages to using mv's verification feature if that is what it is doing00:10
l7maybe there's better ways to verify though00:11
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Stskeepsmv inside same fs or other?00:11
BilawI found the wiki.maemo pages on updating my firmware (I use Ubuntu), but I get an error message: "./flasher-3.0" not found. Can anyone help?00:12
l7from HFS+ to FAT3200:12
StskeepsBilaw: did you download flasher-3.0 from
Stskeepsor -static00:12
Bilaw(silly me!) Er... in a matter of minutes... Where should I shove it, once downloaded?00:13
Stskeepsdoesn't matter, anywhere but a fat32 file system00:13
Stskeepsor a place with noexec00:13
l7hmm, maybe macs aren't the best platforms to test read / write speeds with this Spotlight's annoying indexing00:14
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BilawEr... My terminal says: sudo: ./flasher-3.0.amd64: command not found...00:19
Bilaw(I was in the Desktop directory)00:20
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johnxyou need to be in the same directory you put that file in00:20
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BilawI cd'ed ~/Bureau...00:21
johnxok, so you downloaded flasher-3.0.amd64, you put it in ~/Bureau, then you cd'ed to Bureau?00:22
FatalBilaw: chmod +x flasher-3.0.amd6400:23
Bilawyes, johnx00:23
BilawOK, Fatal00:23
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Bilaw(... Suitable USB device found, waiting...). Thank you, gentlemen!00:24
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Bilaw(Still waiting... Should I worry now, or postpone worrying?)00:26
mgedminstill waiting?00:30
BilawYes mgedmin...00:31
BilawI s'ppose that is not good?00:31
mgedminhow did you run flasher?00:31
Bilawthe N810 does not seem to be doing anything, either...00:31
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mgedminI mean, what was the exact command line?00:31
Bilawsudo ./flasher-3.0.amd64 -F RX-44_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin -f -R00:31
mgedminoh, are you sure you quoted the message correctly?00:32
mgedminperhaps it was "Suitable USB device *not* found, waiting..."?00:32
Bilaw(it did launch a whole bucnh of "images"... but the last message asked me to wait, and here we are, about 4 mn later!00:32
l7hmm, anyone know why there seems to be so little activity on the internettablet wiki?00:32
BilawHolly mackerel, youre right!00:32
mgedminwas there a green progress bar on the screen of your n810?00:32
BilawOK. Back from scratch, mgedmin: it *does* say USB NOT found.00:33
mgedminahh ok00:33
mgedminthat's good00:33
mgedminthe next step is to turn on the n81000:33
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qwerty12_N800l7, it's all about :p00:33
Bilaw(I swear I am not usually this dense...)00:33
mgedminif it is already on, turn it off, unplug from charger, plug in usb cable, turn it on00:33
mgedminthen the flasher will notice it as it boots up00:33
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l7qwerty12_N800: ah, well as long as there's one active wiki, i am happy00:34
johnxqwerty12_N800, which is down right now :/00:34
Bilaw(don't talk, people, I need to copy and paste what mgedmin juste said!)00:34
l7johnx: ouch, so i see00:34
qwerty12_N800johnx, servers suck balls, what can i say :/00:35
l7bleh, is it possible to export to the wiki to some other hosting site?00:35
l7assuming all the contributions are CC licensed or whatever00:35
l7though it was moinmoin wiki from what i recall, and i don't remember too many free moinmoin hosts00:36
Bilaw... Finishing Flashing... done00:37
BilawIt looks like it is all correct, mgedmin!00:37
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l7man, didn't index the maemo wiki much00:37
BilawWell, many thanks, johnx, Fatal, and mgedmin!00:38
johnxsure :)00:38
BilawNow, another question: is it as complicated to install applications from my PC, given that I have no wifi connection available?00:39
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l7hmm, it's a bit less than ideal i think00:41
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StskeepsBilaw: look into usbnet..00:41
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mgedminor transfer them to the memory card one-by-one00:43
mgedmindoing painful manual dependency tracking00:43
mgedmintedious and painful00:43
mgedminand boring00:43
lcukhow many people sit here with their n800 in front of them along with a desktop machine?00:43
mgedmindo laptops count?00:44
* johnx raises his hand00:44
lcukyes certainly00:44
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Stskeepslcuk: on the side, though a laptop00:44
Bilawhm... hours and hours of forthcoming fun, as we say here, Stskeeps00:44
mgedmineveryone who is flashing a new os image?00:44
Khertan_n810and if i m not sit count ?00:44
StskeepsBilaw: it's kinda simple under ubuntu.. it's on the very slow wiki on how to do it :P00:44
lcukcan you do the inverse of bluemaemo - and use your laptop keyboard with maemo - simply without the whole vnc thing - just make your laptop app ear as a keyboard for n80000:45
mgedminit's called ssh00:45
lcuknot quite the same00:45
mgedminnot really...00:45
lcukim thinking within gui apps00:45
Stskeepslcuk: synergy00:45
mgedminI was looking for a vnc server running on maemo once00:45
BilawI'm lost, Stskeeps: whats the very slow wiki?00:45
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StskeepsBilaw: wiki.maemo.org00:45
qwerty12_N800mgedmin, x11vnc?00:45
BilawI'll go look it up00:45
lcukStskeeps, ive heard about that, but only seen it using mouse00:45
mgedminqwerty12_N800: is it in extras?00:46
Fatallcuk: synergy worked fine for me with both mouse and keyboard00:46
mgedminlcuk: synergy (or the equivalent x2x, x2vnc and mango-lassi) is nice00:46
mgedminit redirects your keystrokes to the machine where your shared cursor is at the moment00:46
lcukwell then one step further, can bluemaemo work from tablet to tablet? ( i assume it could?)00:47
Stskeeps <- kinda scary long post00:47
qwerty12_N800mgedmin, no :(. i actually built the latest version from cvs but never got round to debianising it. right now a dodgy deb lies somewhere in my /scratchbox...00:47
lcukjust based on this:
Stskeepswhat is it qole uses in easy debian again? xephyr?00:48
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, two cents? more like $20 :p00:49
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Stskeepsi just kinda wonder if "normal apps" in xephyr could help the issue of non-hildon apps00:50
Stskeepsi mean00:50
Stskeepsif it's possible to make xephyr do scrolling, maybe in a kinetic fashion, that'd be excellent for integrating non-hildon apps into hildon00:50
Stskeepsthat'd give you access to normal apps without issues00:51
Stskeepsor maybe it changes resolution dynamically00:51
Stskeeps.. am i ranting or is this a good idea?00:51
johnxStskeeps, that is a pretty impressive wishlist. I think I wrote one for santa like that when I was a kid...00:51
Stskeepsi think he just summarized iTT through the last year00:52
l7qwerty12_N800: thanks, rootsh worked like a charm :)00:52
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qwerty12_N800l7, no problems :D00:52
l7i'm a bit surprised the n800 only supports 8 character passwords though00:52
Stskeepssaves memory00:52
l7is there any way to improve that?00:52
l7i guess it's not like i'm using it for a webserver00:52
l7though it would make a cool server00:53
johnxwait, which password?00:55
l7the root password00:55
Stskeepsno comment from anyone about my embed a non-hildon app in hildon by embedding it in a hildon window and using kinetic scrolling to scroll to the invisible parts? :P00:55
johnxI just set it to a 10 char password...00:56
l7does it work if you only type 8?00:56
lcukStskeeps, all i can think of is liqbase, but that involves writing your own software from scratch :)00:56
johnxl7, let me check00:56
qwerty12_N800johnx likes living dangerously00:56
l7Enter the new password (minimum of 5, maximum of 8 characters)00:56
Stskeepslcuk: liqwm00:56
Stskeepsthat'd really be excellent though00:57
johnxStskeeps, seems like it would use lots of resources and present some real challenges to deal with click+drag in apps00:57
Stskeepsjohnx: true00:57
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* Stskeeps puts it in his idea bag for hibernation00:57
johnxl7, nope. won't let me in with the first 800:57
Stskeepsnow why on bloody earth does dpkg-buildpackage of glibc test all iconv charsets?00:57
johnxwhere did you see the "less than 8 bit"?00:57
l7login as root and type passwd00:58
Bilawhaving read a little of the USB networking, my answer is: not now, Stskeeps!00:58
BilawBut I'll sure keep this in mind!00:58
johnxl7, I just did ...00:58
l7what did it say?00:58
johnxl7, just enter new UNIX password:00:58
* lcuk puts it in his idea bag as well :)00:58
l7that's it?00:58
l7i got:00:58
l7Changing password for user00:58
l7Enter the new password (minimum of 5, maximum of 8 characters)00:58
l7Please use a combination of upper and lower case letters and numbers.00:58
l7looks the same for root00:59
johnxl7, I just remembered. the n800 is booted into debian :)00:59
l7i'm pretty sure i'm patched to the most recent version too00:59
l7aaah :)00:59
* johnx should get some sleep00:59
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johnxthat's what I get for long running ssh sessions with the screen off00:59
Stskeepsjohnx: one thing im wondering about is if you can apply a trick you can do on normal xorg.. the thing with cursor in the edge moving to the bigger virtual screen00:59
l7how's debian running on your n800?01:00
Stskeepsif that's possible with the newer omapfb driver01:00
johnxStskeeps, yeah, but I think all the "scrollable" area resides on the framebuffer, unless I'm confused01:00
johnx(very possibly confused)01:00
Stskeepsglibc.. "Testing <something>." "This might take a while01:00
l7i think i will give installing kde 4 a shot later01:00
Stskeepsno shit glibc01:01
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l7setting a blank password doesn't work on the n80001:04
l7it lets you set it, but you can't login01:04
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l7though you can change your password again with passwd01:04
johnxwith openssh?01:04
johnxthat's an openssh thing01:05
johnxdropbear lets you use a blank password01:05
johnxmaybe there's an option to enable it somewhere with openssh01:05
johnxI just use pubkey enc01:05
l7i guess it must be a security feature01:05
l7yeah, pubkey sounds like an easier way to go01:05
nemoand safer01:06
l7yeah, i was just testing to see what the OS would let me do01:06
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nemoif you're going to use a blank pass, you might as well just use ssh null encryption too :)01:08
nemosave cycles.01:08
l7is null encryption the same as sending plaintext?01:08
macouteit seems so? :)01:09
macoutenemo: blank password with pubkey is kinda secure, more secure than using password-authentication only01:09
nemomacoute: pubkey is entirely different01:10
nemomacoute: looked like he was trying to go no pass, no pubkey01:11
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nemomacoute: only time I've ever used that is when I needed to debug an app using SSL01:11
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nemo(null cipher)01:12
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macoutenemo: ah, no pass, no pubkey is not that secure :)01:12
l7ah, having bash on the n800 is much nicer01:13
l7must send props to whoever packaged it01:13
lcukthis guy thats making the extension case thing for n810s for extra memory.   has anyone considered asking him if its feasible to fit a camera in there?01:13
* lcuk really needs a front facing camera cos he wants to try somefink01:15
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l7hmm, will replacing /home/user/ with a symlink to one of my mmc cards cause any problems?01:18
gregoroviusl7: only when a ssu comes out01:19
infobotmethinks ssu is
gregoroviusthe name nokia gave to a dist-upgrade01:20
l7updating without reflashing01:21
mgedminwhat's the full name?01:21
johnxwhen do cards get mounted in the boot process?01:21
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mgedmins??? software update?01:21
l7which files will the SSU try to access that will cause problems with my symlinked /home/user/?01:21
l7maybe i can just symlink off ~/apps and ~/MyDocs01:22
qwerty12_N800johnx, ke-recv starts at S3001:22
gregorovius.MyDocs did cause trouble last update01:22
gregoroviusPDFs and a moby mp3 go in there01:23
gregoroviusbut the devs agreed that was a bug and should be sorted out by next ssu01:23
l7hopefully it won't be a problem then01:23
gregoroviusyou can symlink everything, just remember not to update before reading some opinions01:24
l7i guess i can always unsymlink and update if needed01:24
gregoroviusthat's my point01:24
l7do a lot of people symlink some or all of their home directory then?01:24
gregoroviusthe problem if you do that is that when some app is accessing ~, you can't unmount the memory card you symlinked it to01:25
gregoroviusI did it, but then having to reboot just to plug it in via usb was a bother01:26
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gregoroviusat least that was my experience, not sure if it happens to everybody or if it's something in my configuration01:27
l7sounds like the less you symlink off, less likely you are to have problems01:27
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l7symlinking home directory with all it's preferences seems like it invites more problems01:28
l7time to test it out a bit...01:28
gregoroviusgotta run01:28
l7heh, later01:28
l7i have to say, the way nokia laid out the home directory with /apps and /MyDocs is much neater01:29
l7compared to how Ubuntu does it01:29
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l7no need to mix up all your media files with all the hidden preference directories01:29
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l7hmm, does clearing out the n800's built in flash improve performance any?01:31
johnxonly if it's really close to full I would imagine01:31
johnxsay 95% or more01:31
l7is it used for swap as well?01:32
l7i was hoping to reduce wear on the internal flash if possible01:32
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johnxwell, in the case that an fs is >95% write performance can fall01:32
johnxbut no, it's not used for swap01:33
johnxyou can swap to an SD card if you want though01:33
l7yeah, i have my fastest SD card doing that :)01:33
l7just a cheap adata however01:34
GeneralAntillesThat I can go for.01:39
johnxI expect some really, really creative designs01:39
GeneralAntillesHow big are the batteries on most netbooks, anyway?01:39
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johnxactually, I have no clue01:40
l7hmm, which netbook offers the most bang for the buck these days?01:40
l7the eeepc seems to have a dev community working on a version of ubuntu for it01:41
GeneralAntillesjohnx, seems to be 4400 at the low end01:41
GeneralAntillesGoogle says in the 4400-5800 range01:41
l7though the new msi wind looks like too and can run os x for fun01:41
johnxl7, I like the look of the hp mini01:41
l7johnx: what do you like about it?01:42
johnxthe keyboard01:42
l7hmm, yeah a good keyboard is crucial01:42
johnxI've had a chance to type on most and it has the nicest keyboard01:42
GeneralAntillesSo, what, something like 10-18 hour active battery life with an OMAP3440?01:42
l7how does it fare as far as running ubuntu or os x?01:42
johnxGeneralAntilles, or a new psion?01:42
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l7wow, the hp mini has an aluminum case01:43
* GeneralAntilles was a Newton person.01:43
l7heh, i considered getting a newton01:44
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l7even when the mp 2001s were 300, i couldn't quite bring myself to get one01:44
GeneralAntillesThey just a bit too outdated these days.01:45
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: They're just a bit too outdated these days.01:45
l7too bad the HP mini runs on a Via processor01:45
johnxmeh, what are you planning to do on it, game?01:47
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l7actually, i just want to be able to run ubuntu on it01:51
l7though os x would be nice too as a toy01:51
ShadowJK_Some of the eee pc's have 6-cell batteries01:52
johnxthere's a 9 cell for the wind01:52
johnxsome DIY IIRC01:52
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l7bleh, it seems like you can't get the Wind without Windows02:00
l7it's aptly named02:01
johnxwindows pays for itself with spyware. throw both away and call it even :)02:01
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GeneralAntillesThat's quite a battery02:03
johnxdon't post that on ITT. There's probably about 5 users who will ask why Nokia didn't use it on the n8x0...02:04
l7are there any good mapping apps that you could run on a netbook?02:05
johnxin linux or windows?02:05
johnxwindows probably has better commercial map software...02:06
l7linux preferably, but windows if comes to that :)02:06
johnxon linux: gpsdrive, maemo mapperu, navit and ... hmm...something else I don't remember come to mind02:06
l7hmm, that's not bad02:07
johnxthe problem being lack of offline routing02:07
l7couldn't you link the netbook to a bluetooth gps?02:08
johnxsure, but that doesn't get you routing02:08
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l7hrm, for driving?02:08
l7i was planning more on using it as a navigation tool while on foot02:09
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johnxand so you just want to see a map?02:09
johnxmaemo mapper will work fine for that02:09
l7a map and directions02:09
johnxdirections = routing :)02:09
johnxor do you mean compass directions?02:09
l7hrm, maybe the wimax eeepc could solve that problem02:10
johnxor some commercial windows software that has offline routing02:10
l7well for walking around the city, just being able to see where i am on the map and my destination point would be fine02:10
johnxyeah, same here02:10
johnx...or navit should do routing if openstreetmap has really good maps for your area02:11
l7hrm, what exactly do you mean by offline routing?02:11
johnxwithout an inet connection having the app give you turn-by-turn directions to get someplace02:11
GeneralAntillesThe N810W is supposedly shipping, but has anybody actually received a production unit?02:12
johnxGeneralAntilles, some guy on ITT, right? or is he Nokia?02:12
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GeneralAntillesI don't know if he has an actually production unit.02:13
l7hmm, does the app need to talk to a server that sends it turn by turn directions?02:13
johnxl7, not if it has a vector map that includes routing metadata02:14
l7i thought it could just figure out how to get to your destination based on your GPS coordinates and the map02:14
l7so it needs to understand how the streets are laid out02:14
johnxso maemo mapper just uses jpgs/pngs downloaded from google/yahoo maps which of course don't have any routing info embedded02:15
johnxthey're just pictures02:15
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johnxand the maps that include routing info are largely non-free02:15
johnxtiger maps of the US kind of work and are free enough02:15
l7except for openstreet?02:15
johnxright, but it's far from complete02:16
johnxsome areas are pretty great, some are completely blank02:16
l7hrm, how is coverage in europe or canada?02:16
johnxi dunno, check their website :P02:16
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l7ah, finally got around to symlinking mydocs02:19
GeneralAntillesBetter to:02:20
infobotrumour has it, boot-sd is
l7hmm, what do you mean?02:21
johnx"just boot from sd"02:22
l7booting from a flash card is better than symlinking?02:22
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l7oh i see, then my entire filesystem will live on that sd card?02:22
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johnxwell if you're going to keep the card mounted anyways, might as well keep things simple02:22
l7yeah, that's true02:22
johnxanyways, off to bed for me02:24
johnx'night all02:24
l7any idea what is an ideal speed flash card to use for booting?02:24
johnxclass 6 of course02:24
* johnx really sleeps02:24
mgedminthe faster the better, no?02:24
l7yeah, what is the best bang for the buck in terms of class 6 cards though? :)02:25
l7there's also that x150 x200 spec, which is confusing02:25
GeneralAntillesThat's for SD cards02:25
GeneralAntillesMost everybody is pretty much equal02:25
GeneralAntillesExcept SanDisk02:25
GeneralAntillesWhich is better, but you pay for the quality.02:26
l7how much faster is sandisk?02:26
l7perhaps a small 1 2 or 4 gig sandisk would be worth it for booting02:26
l7if there was a noticable increase02:26
l7they have a bunch of different lines though02:27
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ShadowJK_sandisk has slow cards too..02:27
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GeneralAntillesShadowJK_, well, duuuh.02:30
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GeneralAntillesBut you'll know it by the price.02:30
GeneralAntillesl7, not worth the cost.02:31
GeneralAntillesThe tablets generally wont push them to their limits.02:31
l7GeneralAntilles: what's the best option then?02:33
l7a good off-brand SD card?02:33
GeneralAntillesThere isn't really a "best"02:33
GeneralAntillesTranscend, A-Data, Patriot, PNY, and Kingston are all in there.02:34
GeneralAntillesThey're mostly all the same02:34
GeneralAntillessome people will report more problems with one brand or the other02:34
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I've been fine with Transcend02:34
l7adata seems to be priced the lowest at newegg, so i wonder if they're worse02:35
l7yeah, i remember that transcend comparison page a while back02:35
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ShadowJK_[782655.531250] omapfb omapfb: s1d1374x: line buffer not ready02:47
ShadowJK_well, this is new02:47
l7new bug?02:48
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ShadowJK_no idea02:49
ShadowJK_screen went black but backlight is on02:50
ShadowJK_ssh'd in and typed dmesg, and it was full of that02:50
l7were you trying to shut down?02:50
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ShadowJK_so I switched it off with shutdown -r over ssh02:54
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ShadowJK_it didn't come back, the blue led in the corner was fading on and off very slowly02:54
ShadowJK_and the screen had grey vertical stripes without backlight02:54
ShadowJK_I remove battery, and the grey vertical stripes remained for considerable amount of time02:54
ShadowJK_put in battery again and it works, yay \o/02:55
ShadowJK_don't die on me before N900 comes out!02:55
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l7hmm, how do i reset maemomapper's settings?02:58
l7i deleted ~/.maemomapper but the settings seem to persist02:59
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mgedmindoesn't it use gconf?03:13
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l7hmm, there's no ~/.gconf directory03:15
l7there's ~/.gnome2, but it's empty03:15
l7hrm, i don't really like using backup and restore03:17
l7it seems to copy over a lot of obsolete settings03:17
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l7seperating the useful system bits like wireless authentication from the useless bits like saved games would be nice03:18
l7is there an easier way to enter podcasts into canola?03:20
l7i'm considering editing it's configuration file directly, though that seems messy03:20
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l7hmm, it's a sqlite db03:23
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l7copy and paste for feedburner urls doesn't seem to work well03:32
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l7hrm... i guess copy-paste works03:34
l7though it rather sucks03:34
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GeneralAntillesbef0rd, scrollback. :P03:45
GeneralAntillesThe comments there make me laugh.03:45
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bef0rdsorry hehe03:45
GeneralAntillesI'd be all over a netbook with an OMAP344003:46
GeneralAntillesSlap a 5800mAh battery in there and it'll get 12 hours active easy.03:47
bef0rdyeah, Intel was blaiming the ARM processor on the iphone for the 'low performance', hah03:47
bef0rdI've seen some awesome stuff with beagleboards03:47
GeneralAntillesCortex is 2-3x faster than ARM1103:48
ds3build one03:49
ds3gumstix board as CPU, N810 LCD03:50
GeneralAntillesDon't have the time or money.03:50
ds3maybe N800 case03:50
GeneralAntillesThe overo's got big ports on it.03:50
ds3that's the carrier board, AFAIK03:51
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ShadowJK_Intel's argument that you need an intel processor for "the full web" is kinda flawed... There are websites that don't even work properly on Q6600, full web is impossible goal ;)04:01
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GeneralAntilles"Full web" means such radically different things to different people that it's hardly a metric worth discussing.04:08
ShadowJK_personally I'd want more ram so I could click more than a few links with my "one tab/window per link" browsing style before things grind to a halt :)04:10
GeneralAntillesI'm such a tab whore.04:10
ShadowJK_And this really starts from that I hate waiting for pages to load, so I click a bunch of links so that they load in the background so that I don't have to wait all the time, which is what happens if you do the follow link, back, follow another link, back style...04:11
GeneralAntillesI go back to XChat waiting for pages to load04:14
GeneralAntilleswhich doesn't work either, as MicroB's an attention whore and tops itself a hundred thousand times.04:15
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ShadowJK_firefox does it too to some extent04:17
ShadowJK_Mostly only when it decides to freeze and you've clicked some UI component, it wants to pop back up again once it decides to respond04:17
ShadowJK_But microb does this even worse :)04:17
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GeneralAntillesParticularly inexcusable with Matchbox.04:20
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bef0rdhey disco_stu04:33
disco_stubef0rd: suppp man04:33
disco_stusomeone here with experience with dosbox & maemo04:35
bef0rdI installed it once04:37
bef0rdis that enough? :P04:37
bef0rdI believe I used pupnik's packge04:37
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ShadowJK_Can anyone think of any other situation where microb should steal focus, than when you've clicked a link in another app that launches microb?05:04
GeneralAntillesHonestly, I'd rather applications not even pull focus when you open them.05:05
ShadowJK_I think that'd be hard to sneak past nokia people05:05
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ShadowJK_tap-hold a link, "Open Link in New window", microb steals focus, user switches back to original window, microb steals focus, user switches back to original window, microb has now maybe finished the page or atleast rendered it the first time, and steals focus for the third time. Drives me crazy :)05:06
* GeneralAntilles stabs his eyes out.05:06
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ShadowJK_I guess there's at most an inane bugreport in bugzilla? :p05:08
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GeneralAntillesThere is05:09
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ShadowJK_eh, "Reporter, Nokia"05:12
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ShadowJK_"I can see that browserd calls that 3 times when it's asked to open another new page."05:13
ShadowJK_This matches exactly with what I've observed from the behaviour :)05:13
GeneralAntillesEero's a platform guy.05:13
ShadowJK_a platform guy?05:15
GeneralAntillesHe works on the platform stuff.05:15
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disco_stuthe browser is stupid when you load it, and it shows and hides hildon-input-keyboard05:16
ShadowJK_as I'm clueless about maemo, are all the browser components open? i.e. could we remove the RaiseWindow calls and compile our own..05:17
GeneralAntillesThe browser basically has to re-implement text input from scratch.05:17
ShadowJK_Oh yeah, I have focus issues with the location field, but that's another story :)05:17
GeneralAntillesThe "Mozilla based browser for Maemo" or "tablet-browser" effectively makes up two parts05:17
GeneralAntillesFirst, MicroB the open source browser engine based on Firefox05:18
l7hmm, isn't there some sort of "open new windows in background" option for microb?05:18
GeneralAntillesand, second, tablet-browser-ui, the closed-source UI.05:18
GeneralAntillesl7, no, but there's an enhancement request05:18
l7GeneralAntilles: oh good05:18
ShadowJK_do you really need RaiseWindow in the app for matchbox to be able to command it to front...?05:19
* GeneralAntilles doesn't have enough familiarity with X and window managers to have a clue.05:19
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l7hmm, timeless really seems to dislike that enhancement request05:20
disco_stuwell i succesfully ran turbo c within dosbox05:20
disco_stuand it compiled a simple c file05:21
l7seems like he turns around towards the end05:21
disco_stuis time to try windows 3.1105:21
GeneralAntillesHa, Boingo support finally gets back to me the day after I talk to one of the managers.05:21
GeneralAntillesl7, well, RAM is extremely limited.05:22
GeneralAntillesl7, you open more than a few windows and you're getting close to OOM.05:22
l7too bad we can't just pop in some sodimms :)05:22
GeneralAntillesWhich means something has to give, and that means closing windows05:22
GeneralAntilleswhich is just not very nice.05:23
GeneralAntillesSo anything that encourages opening more windows is probably not desirable.05:23
l7it is nice to let one window load in the background while you keep reading the main article though05:23
GeneralAntillesRock and a hard place sort of deal.05:23
l7i mean that's like 2, maybe 3 browser windows at most05:23
GeneralAntillesYeah, but you know people wont use it that way05:24
l7it's just about the convenience of being able to keep reading the current page without being interupted05:24
GeneralAntillesand what do they say when Flash or JavaScript stops working for seemingly no reason? Or a window closes?05:24
l7well.... they can suffer the consequences :)05:24
GeneralAntillesThe consequences of opening browser windows? :P05:24
l7put a big red warning box over the option :)05:24
GeneralAntillesIt's not a nice situation however you look at it.05:24
l7to open browser windows in the background05:25
l7firefox has an appropriate warning in it's about:config05:25
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GeneralAntillesWe'll see what happens with Fremantle05:26
GeneralAntillesThe browser UI is going open there, so it would be something the community could flip a switch for without issue if Nokia didn't implement it.05:26
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GeneralAntillesUnfortunately I don't see much hope for improvement with Diablo.05:26
l7oh well05:28
GeneralAntillesSoo, go get people to help with coding Tear. :P05:28
l7i hope fremantle comes out soon :)05:28
GeneralAntillesNext summer-ish05:28
l7well i guess i'm still glad about the rate at which the tablet OS is evolving05:29
GeneralAntillesYeah, it's a bit of a ways away. :(05:29
l7compared to those other closed devices which just stay the same05:29
GeneralAntillesBut it's a pretty radical change05:29
GeneralAntillesand we've got SSU between now and then.05:29
l7is there a page detailing what's in the works for the next SSU?05:31
GeneralAntillesYou can follow the changelogs for the open source stuff on Garage05:31
l7the closed source stuff is top secret then?05:32
GeneralAntillesOne sec05:32
penguinbaittimes up05:33
GeneralAntillesBugs that may or may not be fixed in the next release05:33
GeneralAntillesNokia is pretty tight-lipped about what's too be included in future updates.05:33
l7reminds me that company that rhymes with snapple05:35
l7i guess it gives them a little room for more exciting press releases05:35
ShadowJK_heh, I tried to kill XRaiseWindow with some LD_PRELOAD, but it didn't seem to work05:36
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GeneralAntillesl7, they're not a company familiar with open source.05:36
GeneralAntillesI can't imagine the suffering the Maemo Software guys go through05:37
l7they suffer from doing open source?05:37
GeneralAntillesNo, being open source people working in a closed-source company like Nokia05:37
l7oh, yeah05:38
GeneralAntillesEspecially they people that put themselves out there in the community and end up taking flack for Nokia's practices.05:38
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Especially the people that put themselves out there in the community and end up taking flack for Nokia's practices.05:38
l7yeah, that can't be fun05:39
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: does nokia pay to you?05:39
GeneralAntillesdisco_stu, no.05:39
GeneralAntillesWell, I got a t-shirt from timeless for Bugzilla triaging. :P05:39
l7maybe the linux foundation might sponsor you :)05:40
l7wow, there's a bunch of crazy stuff in /afs05:43
TokyoDanThe Maemo PC Connectivity explanation isn't clear about what development environment configuration is/isn't necessary when using the Eclipse Pluthon plug-in instead of the ESBox/Scratchbox plugin.05:43
TokyoDanPluthon = develop Maemo apps on PC, run and test on actual Maemo device.05:43
TokyoDanESBox = develop, run & test Maemo apps in scratchbox environment on PC.05:43
TokyoDanWhat's not clear is what needs to be configured when using Pluthon for development:05:43
TokyoDan1. SSH: Configure for ability to establish a connection without need to enter a password.05:43
TokyoDan I did this.05:43
TokyoDan2. SSHFS:  Configure for ability to access Maemo device filesystem from a mount on the PC.05:43
TokyoDanThis may be necessary if using ESBox, but is it also necessary if using Pluthon instead of ESBox?05:43
TokyoDan3. SBRSH: Scratchbox Remote Shell.05:43
TokyoDanI don't believe this is necessary since I won't be using ESBox/Scratchbox on the PC to develop Maemo apps. The apps will be run & tested on the Maemo device.05:43
GeneralAntillesWhoa05:43 please05:44
disco_stuslexy is one of the nicest pastebins i've ever used05:45
disco_stui should make a hildon client for maemo05:46
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disco_stuGeneralAntilles: is there any explanation about why sometimes file manager doesnt see CIFS shares ?05:51
GeneralAntillesUm, dunno.05:51
GeneralAntillesThink there's a bug.05:51
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disco_stuyou can manually mount it05:52
disco_stuso it works.. but not automatically like expected05:53
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GeneralAntillesIf there's not a bug, file one.05:55
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disco_stuGeneralAntilles: i'm not the kind of guy who does that05:56
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GeneralAntillesFiles bugs?05:57
GeneralAntillesWhat's wrong with filing bugs?05:57
disco_stuburocracy in general05:57
GeneralAntillesClearly developers wont fix issues if they don't know about them.05:57
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disco_stuGeneralAntilles: the have crystal balls i guess05:57
GeneralAntillesWhat has bugzilla got to do with bureaucracy?05:57
disco_stuGeneralAntilles: burocracy is easier to speel05:58
disco_stui miss the trailing '/'05:58
disco_studamn it05:58
GeneralAntillesAnyway, if you don't file a bug, then you forfeit you rights to complain about it. :)05:58
* ShadowJK_ fails at quickfixing focus stealing with LD_PRELOAD :-(05:59
disco_stummm.. what is forfeit ?05:59
GeneralAntillesGive up your rights05:59
disco_stui see05:59
ShadowJK_does the file browser still not support password protected smb shares?05:59
disco_stuShadowJK_: i'm with Chinook and it doesnt, dunoo about Diablo06:00
ShadowJK_yeah i know it didn't in diablo06:00
ShadowJK_er, in chinook06:00
disco_stufuck me !06:00
disco_stui cant learn how to fix mispellings06:01
disco_stutoo much work to my brain that is already emulating english speaking06:01
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nemoSooo, what do folks here think of the "iKIT06:28
GeneralAntillesWay underpowered06:28
GeneralAntillesScreen's way too small06:28
GeneralAntillesMaybe if it were under $10006:29
nemo312MHz ROM: 128 MB, RAM: 64 MB SDRAM ... ROM?06:29
GeneralAntillesNAND, presumably06:30
disco_stui like it :)06:30
disco_stuwhat's the actual size ?06:31
closetIt definitely looks a bit frightingly like an old clamshell zaurus06:31
ds3same processor06:32
disco_stuthe size compared to a n80006:32
nemolooks smaller06:33
nemolittle bit bigger than a phone06:34
nemo95mm (L) x 65mm (W) x 15.5mm (H)06:34
disco_stuis nice.. but i dont know about that kb06:35
closetyeah, it's a fair bit smaller:
disco_stuit should be way to smaller06:37
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disco_stuthe thing with ikit is that it doesnt offer things that a cellphone offers06:42
disco_stumy nokia e50 gives me everything ikit does but wifi06:43
disco_stuit should be ultra small06:43
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zackeroocan I download google maps onto my computer and just move the file to my N810 for maemo-mapper to use?06:57
disco_stuzackeroo: i dont think so07:00
ShadowJK_e50 has no wifi?07:00
ShadowJK_i thought ell e series had wifi :/07:01
zackerooreason I asked was that mapper is really not good with downloading the maps07:01
* disco_stu is watching sharapova pics, will be back in 10 minutes07:01
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zackeroohalf of the time it freezes during download .... and other times it says it needs to download outragous amounts of data for my selection ....07:02
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zackeroodisco_stu  : turns out it is possible ... ever heard of winmapper?07:10
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GeneralAntillesIs it compatible with 2.x?07:11
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zackerooGeneralAntilles : asking me?07:28
GeneralAntillesWell, last time I checked it wasn't.07:29
zackeroo2.x mapper?07:29
GeneralAntillesMoved from folders to a real database.07:29
zackerooI dunno about that ..07:30
zackerooso its back to square one ...07:30
GeneralAntillesIt's largely because Google throttles big map downloads.07:31
zackerooyeah ... which is why I wish people would share the downloads they have done07:32
zackeroolike if someone already downloaded an area or city they could share that online .... torrent it or something ...07:32
GeneralAntillesSounds like a lot of work for little reward07:34
GeneralAntillesBesides, how do you integrate a database of the northeast with a database of the southwest?07:34
GeneralAntillesYou have one database per repository.07:34
zackeroobut is it even true when maemo mapper says it will need to download 12GB for an area ?07:34
GeneralAntillesIt can be less depending on the number of duplicate tiles07:35
GeneralAntilleswhich the database method accounts for.07:35
GeneralAntillesBut, generally speaking, they're raster maps and not particularly small.07:36
zackerooso it could be less than what it says it will need to download07:37
GeneralAntillesUsually isn't07:37
GeneralAntillesEspecially for urban areas07:37
GeneralAntillesunless the area you're downloading is mostly water07:37
zackeroohow about the option to download "Along Route" ... how does that work?07:38
GeneralAntillesOnce you have a route, it downloads x number of tiles along it.07:39
GeneralAntillesGet a piece of graph paper, draw a squiggly line07:39
zackeroo"have a route" please explain07:39
GeneralAntillesIt downloads the tiles that line intersects07:39
GeneralAntillesA navigation route07:40
GeneralAntillesA GPX track07:40
GeneralAntillesDirections from point a to point b.07:40
GeneralAntillesIt's right at the top of the menu.07:40
zackerooI downloaded a route from gnuite .. does that count?07:40
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GeneralAntillesA route is just a gpx track07:40
GeneralAntillesso it can be any gpx track07:40
GeneralAntillesShows up as a green line on the map by default.07:41
zackerooso I now have a route from Melbourne to Sydney ... and there is a green line on my map showing the route07:41
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zackerooto download that route ... I should use the "Along Route" option ... right?07:42
GeneralAntillesTo download tiles along the route.07:42
zackeroobut ... what is the number there for ?07:42
zackerooits on number 8 at the moment07:43
GeneralAntillesThat's how many tiles wide around the route it should download. . . .07:43
zackeroois there a way to see the tile grid so I can know what that means?07:44
zackeroolike how far is 8 tiles?07:44
GeneralAntillesDepends on the zoom level.07:44
zackeroozoom levels 6,8 and 1007:45
zackeroofor instance07:45
zackerooI wish google maps showed the grid ... that would be helpful07:46
zackeroooh and by the way ... I never got flite to work .... so no voices ... :(07:47
zackeroois there a way to tell how large a tile is?07:47
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GeneralAntillesFullscreen it's about 8 tiles at any particular zoom level.07:48
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zackeroook... well I did 5 tiles ... at 6,8 and 10 zoom07:49
zackeroosays its going to download 185MB07:49
zackeroois there a way to stop that GPS notification popup?07:50
zackeroosays stuff like "Turn Right at such and such street"07:51
zackerookeeps blinking07:51
GeneralAntillesIt's in preferences, I'm sure.07:51
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zackerooso there is no other way to get voice working but through flite07:56
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Khertan_n810Hi !08:23
Khertan_n810someone know an online service which redirect a host/port to an other other one with a different port ? dyndns doesn t able to change port08:24
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bef0rdmost of that kind of services are for 'name' redirection08:25
bef0rdand I don't think they'll do 'port redirect'  for free08:25
Khertan_n810that my problem08:25
Khertan_n810and the only one i found was 114$ by month08:26
Khertan_n810at this price i prefer to create my own server08:27
bef0rdyea, well port redirection requires some kind of software to be installed08:28
bef0rdthat'll act as a 'proxy', because I don't think its possible to do it in any other way08:29
bef0rdwhat do you need it for?08:29
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Khertan_n810this is for by passing the orange stupid decision to block port 993 (imap ssl) for 'security reason' on data connection08:31
Khertan_n810as well as port 25 ... saying that it s a common port used by spammer08:31
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Khertan_n810i suggest they to block also 80 as many forbidden thing can be done on this port too08:31
Khertan_n810ping ?08:31
Khertan_n810reading and sending mail08:31
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Khertan_n810yeah orange suck08:32
bef0rdso, they block any connection attempt to 993 and 25?08:32
bef0rdis it your own imap server? can't you change the port number?08:33
Khertan_n810no it s the gmail one08:33
Khertan_n810and i prefer to not create one at home08:34
Khertan_n810adsl connection is not reliable08:34
bef0rddoesn't orange handle iphones in france?08:35
bef0rd(you are in france, right?)08:35
bef0rdiphone uses imap gmail, I suppose those connect to 993 too08:36
Khertan_n810but orange sell the data connection for iphone only with an iphone08:38
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Khertan_n810other user have this stupid restriction since 10days08:38
bef0rdcan't you sue them or something08:39
bef0rdor make them return your money since they have made it 'useless' for your needs08:39
Khertan_n810yep ...08:39
Khertan_n810they change service08:40
Khertan_n810but other french isp suck too08:40
Khertan_n810bouygue telecom autorize only their pop3 server08:40
Khertan_n810and sfr limit mail to 10Mo ... or you need to use the webmail08:40
Khertan_n81010Mo by month08:41
bef0rdhmm it should be possible to 'tunnel' all your communication through ssh08:41
bef0rd(unless they ban 22)08:41
Khertan_n81022 banned08:41
Khertan_n810but i could set it to 80 on my home computer08:42
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Khertan_n810but i prefer to not do that ... as it require a permanent computer running08:42
qwerty12See if you can leave it running on a router or something, I leave running on my netgear08:43
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zackeroodoes anyone know how to get flite working on a N810 device with mapper?09:05
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zackeroodoes anyone here use mapper and flite together?09:08
`Macei need to see if my httpd vm works on esx09:19
`Macei hope i used scsi to make the drive instead of ide09:19
`Macei guess you can't use ide for esxi09:19
`Macewhy even have it then? in case someone is running MS DOS 3?09:19
zackeroook well ... without voice this is still useless as a GPS device ... :(09:24
zackerooI mean I payed $350 for this thing ... I could have paid $100 for an ordinary GPS device, but i bought this becasue I thought I was getting a GPS device + lots more ...09:25
zackerooturns out I got "lots more" minus the GPS services ...09:26
GeneralAntilles"Map" gives you what you're after.09:27
zackerooor i have to fork out another X amount of bucks to get MAP to work ... which, as I am reading reviews, does not get a fantastic score either09:27
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zackerooand then this will have cost me about $450 which is a tad bit outragous imo for a GPS device that is ireless as well and has a few other apps and things you can do ....09:28
GeneralAntillesYou bought it for the wrong reasons09:28
GeneralAntillesIt's a handheld laptop than can also do some GPS work on the side.09:28
zackerooI bought it for reasons it was advertised09:28
GeneralAntillesYou did realize that GPS navigation wasn't included in the price of the device, though, right? :\09:29
zackeroowhen I came here and read up on it, and on maemo-mapper, people were full of praise about it ...09:29
zackeroothen as I am working through getting it to work its practically no fun .... there is no clearly marked out documentation on mapper and its easiness to use and setup .... I am also being told that i can have sound in mapper ... "of course you can" ppl say ...09:31
zackeroobut is it working for me? ... no! and that is what is frustrating ....09:31
GeneralAntillesMaemo Mapper has built-in help.09:31
GeneralAntillesIt's quite good.09:31
zackerooshow me the where I can read about how to setup flite ...09:32
zackerooor audio09:32
GeneralAntillesIt should just work.09:32
GeneralAntillesThere's probably something wrong with your particularly setup.09:33
GeneralAntillesYou could always try mailing maem-users.09:33
zackerooyeah ... and I am a basic user ... I have not fiddled with anything in-depth09:33
zackeroothis is where OS looses out ... its too complex for the basic user to figure out ...09:33
zackeroowe don't want to have to debug and all that09:34
GeneralAntillesIt's simple enough if you use it for what it's intended for09:34
GeneralAntillesBut it's not a platform for the feint of heart if you want to expand beyond that.09:34
zackeroowell.. that is what I am doing   .... no?09:34
zackerooI am working onthe very basic level here ....09:34
zackeroolike you said "it should just work"09:35
GeneralAntillesI suspect you'll have the most fun with the platform if you look at it as a learning experience09:35
RST38hmoo all09:35
GeneralAntillesHowdy, RST38h.09:35
zackeroodo the developers ever ask themselves "so what happens if it doesn't work?"09:35
zackerooa "learning experience"?09:35
RST38hehlo, General09:35
zackerooso what you mean is this thing is not ready for the GP09:36
zackerooat least some of its features09:36
GeneralAntillesLike I said earlier, the basic features work fine.09:36
RST38hwhat thing? maemo?09:36
zackerooor some of the apps built for it....09:36
zackeroois maemo-mapper and audio not basic?09:36
zackerooI think its basic ....09:36
zackerooand, again, where in the mapper help is there any info about getting Audio to work?09:37
RST38has I missed the start of this conversation, could you say exactly what general programming means to you?09:37
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GeneralAntillesFor 99% of people, it's "install flite and turn on voice synthesis"09:38
zackerooI was just talking with GA here about the N810 and its GPS feature09:38
GeneralAntillesIf you want perfectly end-user ready, pay up and buy a "Map" license.09:39
zackerooI understand that ... but I have to ask where does that leave the 1% (if indeed it is so few) who have probs with it09:39
GeneralAntillesFiguring out their problem?09:39
GeneralAntillesCould be a packaging issue09:39
GeneralAntillesflite hasn't been uploaded to Diablo Extras09:40
RST38hit leaves those people in whatever shit they were before they bought their tablets.09:40
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zackerooso there could be a compatability issue between mapper and flite09:40
RST38has long as it is 1%, they are insignificant09:40
GeneralAntillesI don't know09:41
GeneralAntillesmaemo-users might be a better place to ask09:41
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zackerooand is there any other free alternative to mapper?09:41
RST38hdid he try itt already?09:41
zackerooare they in the repos?09:41
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zackeroocan Navit use flite?09:44
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RST38hSony said UIQ is dead. Amen.09:49
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qwerty12RST38h: w00t09:50
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RST38hARM says Cortex A8/A9 are coming to netbooks.10:01
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RST38hprobably figured winxp emulation :)10:02
* Stskeeps is trying to kickstart his brain with a massive sugar rush.10:03
gomiama boot is usually better for kick-starting10:04
GeneralAntillesRST38h, I'm so down with an OMAP3440 netbook.10:04
* Stskeeps would enjoy a laptop on a omap too10:04
Stskeepsand then just sd card slots10:04
RST38hwhy? I dont really care either way but doubt it will fly10:05
zackeroowhat do you use to edit files ?10:05
zackeroolike instead of kate or gedit10:05
GeneralAntilles8-16 hour active battery life out of a ~4400-5800mAh battery would be fun.10:06
RST38hmore arm-based mids should be nice though, especially startrek-styled ones10:06
StskeepsRST38h: because of non-movable parts10:06
Stskeepscompletely silent, doesn't get warm..10:06
RST38hand what about slide-out keyboard in tablets or the hinge in netbooks?10:08
zackerooummm.. anyone know?10:08
* melmoth uses vi10:09
RST38hnooo, I want Iphone form factor in x8 size - steve jobs10:09
GeneralAntillesiPhone. :P10:09
melmoththere s pygtkeditor for a gui based editor with fancy syntax highlight10:09
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zackeroook... something else than vi?10:10
zackeroosomething more like kate or gedit?10:10
RST38hzackeroo: please visit download section at and search for editor10:11
RST38hdo you know where to enter Maemoorg" in your browser and how to use search?10:11
zackeroocan you name one I can install from the repos?10:12
JaffaMorning, all10:12
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GeneralAntillesHi, Jaffa.10:13
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zackeroois it possible to install apps to other places than the internal memory?10:15
infobotboot-sd is, like,
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aquatixmorning all10:17
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GeneralAntillesHi, aquatix.10:17
* GeneralAntilles wonders where jott and guenther are hiding10:18
zackeroook I looked up text editors in the downloads area of and there are only 3 ....10:18
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zackerooLeafpad ... installed and does not work from the terminal10:19
zackerooVIM -- too complex for my needs10:19
zackerooXournal -- not in the repos10:20
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melmothyou want a ncurses editor that is more "user friendly" than vi ? I guess the only option left to you is to port joe or something10:22
Stskeepsi have a joe deb10:23
Stskeepsi use it exclusively :P10:23
GeneralAntillesStskeeps -> Extras10:23
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i will eventually :P should look into mud builder it seems10:23
smokieHi, i have problems installing the 4.1.1 SDK on my X86_64 (Ubuntu). I get  Error reading from server and the same for libsmbclient.10:23
Stskeepssmokie: get the updated .sh10:24
GeneralAntillesGood ol' unreliable maemo.org10:26
GeneralAntillesJaffa, by the way, I saw the council vid.10:26
GeneralAntillesYou guys owe me blogs. :P10:26
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GeneralAntillesI may have to put etrunko on the job of helping Dave out with INdT.10:29
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JaffaGood idea10:32
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GeneralAntillesI'm sure he's busy with Canola, but he's gotta put in _some_ council time.10:33
* Stskeeps really never heard of etrunko before elections10:34
macoutehow long can it take to change some servers for maemo?10:35
GeneralAntillesmacoute, I don't know. :\10:35
Stskeepsmacoute: a leopard guards the 770s that run it10:35
macoutein a good system, it would take about 10 minutes10:35
GeneralAntillestekojo says it's the db server now.10:35
Stskeepsand nerds aren't fond of leopards.10:35
GeneralAntillesand that they don't yet have a schedule for the upgrade from the ISP10:35
macoutebut as we can see, maemo is not a good system :)10:35
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: 10 bucks it's just midgard bringing down any system cos of some like statements10:35
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, he's been around since the beginning, but is pretty quiet in community stuff10:36
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smokieStskeeps, worked. Great ... lets move on to hello world :-)10:50
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, there's a thread on -developers you might want to wade into.10:51
GeneralAntillesjohnx, too.10:53
zackerooGeneralAntilles  : does the n810 come with Diablo by default?10:54
zackeroowhats it come with?10:54
GeneralAntillesMaybe 51-3 at this point? I'm not sure.10:54
GeneralAntillesChinook, anyway.10:54
zackerooso would flite be working if was using that?10:55
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: which one?10:55
solmumahazackeroo: doesn't flite work with diablo then?10:56
zackeroonot with mapper10:57
solmumahainstalls but doesn't work?10:57
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, the recent one about Maemo and upstream from Quim10:57
zackerooinstalls... but get nothing through mapper10:57
solmumahadoes it work from the commandline?10:57
zackerootried it with "hello world" and it works10:58
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: it is a difficult discussion though.. i'll think of something for it11:01
* Jaffa rewatches the coucil video - Mrs Jaffa really did fsck up on my hair the day before travelling11:02
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: maybe a "wet dream maemo" vision could be a possibility to write about11:03
GeneralAntillesQuim always has this "we're open, we're not hiding things, why don't you discuss it with us in the open?" vibe about him in discussions that this that doesn't totally jive with the reality of Nokia.11:04
GeneralAntillesJaffa, you had hair in the video? :P11:05
solmumahamaybe that was the fsck up11:05
zackerooGeneralAntilles  : so ... I think I may have changed to Diablo ... for what reasons i forget .... but if I backtracked to Chinook would I still be able to use mapper and flite?11:06
JaffaMrs Jaffa started at the back with the clippers - forgetting to put on the plastic bit.11:07
StskeepsJaffa: my gf is never cutting my hair again either11:08
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solmumahaluckily i have a haircut nobody can really mess up11:12
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solmumahawife doesn't like if it gets over 1 mm11:13
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gomiamsolmumaha: so she can smack your head better? ;-)11:16
solmumahawell it doesn't really look good any longer tbh :)11:17
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zackeroohow do I install wget in maemo?11:30
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zackerooI am trying to install roadmap ... but it says it needs wget11:32
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Stskeepsinstall extras and apt-get install wget11:34
solmumahaor try red pill mode11:34
GeneralAntilles^ no.11:35
GeneralAntillesBad solmumaha.11:35
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solmumahawget doesn't show up in red pill mode?11:39
aquatixno, red pill mode is discouraged11:39
GeneralAntillesRed Pill is bad juju11:39
GeneralAntillesIt does bad things that get users in big trouble11:39
GeneralAntillesapt-get install wget is a lot lower impact11:40
RST38hOnce he installs Roadmap, he is going to complain. Badly. Right here. And ask questions.11:40
RST38hSo I suggest you do not help him install Roadmap. =)11:40
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zackerootoo late.... its done11:42
zackeroothe install added a repo though...11:42
zackeroocalled mg11:42
zackerooshould i disable it?11:43
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aquatixzackeroo: well, i guess it's needed for roadmap packages?11:49
zackerooit added as I was installing wget11:51
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* GeneralAntilles can't decide between a startup splash and Err.12:03
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smokieAre there any problems installing esbox in eclipse ganymed ? Instal was fine, but all esbox option (maemo project, preferences, ...) end up in an error popup ?12:03
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* RST38h wonders whether ignoring latest redesign discussion has been a bad idea12:11
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GeneralAntillesCarman's not checking if you've already selected a location during updates.12:18
GeneralAntillesHoo man, that looks nice.12:19
GeneralAntillesDid anybody ever figure out where the first Nokia logo resides?12:19
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: First logo?12:20
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GeneralAntillesDuring startup12:21
GeneralAntillesI'm thinking it's on the initfs, but I'm not sure.12:21
X-FadeI think so, I don't think it is in NOLO.12:21
Stskeepsit's in NOLO12:22
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Stskeepsthe very first nokia one12:22
X-FadeIsn't there an option in 0xffff to replace it?12:22
X-FadeI thought so.12:22
GeneralAntillesUgh, what a pain.12:22
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Well, it _is_ Nokia's own branding ;)12:23
X-FadeNext thing you want to do is remove the name nokia on your tablet's front? :)12:24
GeneralAntillesI paid for the damn device. :P12:24
GeneralAntillesNah, that looks good.12:24
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GeneralAntillesWhat do I want to replace the hands with?12:25
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smokieESBox wont start here in ganymede. Even the preference dialog doesn't come because its unable to activate some classes ????12:31
Stskeepsokay, so a optimized glibc -feels- like it helps.12:34
Stskeepsvery interesting12:34
Stskeepseither that or i want it to help12:34
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Stskeepsjohnx: grab , libc6-dev and libc6 and whatever other packages you think might help :12:35
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GeneralAntillesReplaced the hands image with my current desktop background12:47
GeneralAntillesgives the impression of a faster startup.12:47
RST38hMake sure you have all the UI images on top of that background as well12:47
X-FadeLess flickering :)12:48
RST38hThis is how iPhone makes application startup "faster" =)12:48
X-Fadeyes, but don't try to click on something.12:48
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: indeed12:49
Jaffa even - and
GeneralAntillesMaybe grab Hildon Desktop's outline12:50
johnxthen make a greyed-out version of it12:50
johnx"It's there, just wait another 3 seconds" :)12:50
RST38hjust leave it as it is, will'ya?12:51
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solmumahaGeneralAntilles: you should test that on a woman12:53
solmumahai know my wife would say it's broken before it's booted12:54
macoutebtw. does anyone know who maintains
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johnxStskeeps, trying the new libc in a bit12:56
GeneralAntillesmacoute, "wdiset"?12:56
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: macoute, "widset"?12:56
macouteGeneralAntilles: its kinda an rss-feed-reader for mobile phones. finnish invention I think.12:57
* Jaffa has never heard of it12:58
RST38hIt is weird javascript-based stuff that runs inside an S60 browser13:02
macouteits kinda handy to have, though most of the widsets are coded like hell13:03
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macoutefor example the weatherforecast-app has downloaded over 10 megs in some months13:03
macouteand i never use it13:03
macouteand most of the widset i use frequently only downloaded under a meg13:03
macoutein the same time13:03
macoutethe traffic is not a problem, but the battery is :/13:04
GeneralAntillesRaining like crazy outside13:04
macouteit can drain my e51 in about 12h if i leave it open13:04
GeneralAntillesmade me think I had missed another hurricane.13:04
johnxGeneralAntilles, here too. probably a big hurricane :)13:05
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* GeneralAntilles did that once.13:05
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GeneralAntilles"Man, it's raining a lot outside. *pulls up* Oh . . . tropical storm."13:05
johnxwe just get typhoons. Not enough wind to do damage ... and I live on top of a hill, so flooding isn't really a concern13:06
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Stskeepsjohnx: k, and just dpkg -i it13:18
johnxsounds good13:18
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johnxyou optimized locales too? :)13:22
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Stskeepsi have no clue if they're optimized ;) i dpkg-buildpackage glibc and other scary things come along13:23
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johnx:) well the package is architecture "all" so ...13:25
Stskeepsyeah :P13:25
johnxI take it this is a necessary step before being able to optimize anything higher up?13:26
Stskeepsit's a step ahead13:26
Stskeepsi mean, most apps use libc functions13:27
Stskeepsif not every13:27
Stskeepslibm is part of this too13:27
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johnxncsd seg faults13:27
Stskeepsthe install or?13:28
Stskeepsi just installed libc, seemed to work13:28
Stskeepsnot the nscd13:28
johnxStarting Name Service Cache Daemon: nscdSegmentation fault13:28
johnx failed!13:28
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Stskeepsjohnx: with the package laying on my repo or without?13:29
Stskeepsdidn't test that honestly13:29
johnxI didn't know if I needed it or not13:29
Stskeepsi just applied libc6 and -dev13:29
johnxhmm, actually I think if you enable vfp you might want to declare a subarchitecture13:30
Stskeepsand stuff seems to work :P13:30
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johnxanyways, the rest installed ok, so I'll reboot and enjoy the blinding speed13:30
Stskeepsk - revert nscd i guess13:30
Stskeepsand why a subarchitecture?13:34
GeneralAntillesThat guy's been spamming off and on for months.13:34
johnxStskeeps, because vftp packages won't work on armv5te13:35
Stskeepshe's chanting maemo maemo maemo13:35
Stskeepsjohnx: well, this one was optimized for n8x0 specifically13:35
Stskeepsthis is -vfp thoug13:35
johnxare there armv6 CPUs without vfp?13:36
kulveI think so. And I also think that there are armv5 cpus with vfp13:36
suihkulokkiis there anything else that uses floats in glibc except libm ?13:36
Stskeepsgood question, but for the apps that use libm this might be an advantage :P13:37
RST38hjohnx: yes13:38
RST38hVFP is really optional13:39
Stskeepsjohnx: anyway this package was just an attempt to see if it helps any to optimize specifically, not something that'd go in an "ordinary" install13:39
johnxof course, just doing a brain-dump over here :)13:39
* GeneralAntilles wipes johnx's brains off his shoes.13:40
zapRST38h: that should be interesting for you:
* GeneralAntilles finds it odd that it's taken so long to start getting real computers in cars.13:42
RST38hzap: Old news. They are not going to do it right away though13:43
RST38hzap: In related news, Sony just announced they are abandoning UIQ.13:43
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RST38hGeneral: It took long enough traffic jams so that the drivers could really make use of in-car PCs13:44
RST38hA pity that with oil prices going down, we will not see the rise of mass-transit in the US, would be good for the mobile tech13:45
suihkulokkiStskeeps: I mean, then you only need to compile a optimized version libm, not the whole shebang13:46
Stskeepssuihkulokki: possibly, but did you see glibc package recently? :P13:47
Stskeepsit even runs test caes13:47
Stskeeps(which i disabled after it crashed my builder)13:47
suihkulokkiand that's good, it makes sure you don't get a broken libc when going all gentoo with buildopts ;)13:47
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suihkulokkiI take it that the last test you saw was tst-robust1 ? :)13:48
Stskeepswordexp, scaringily13:48
suihkulokkithat doesn't sound healthy13:49
Stskeepswell it is a qemu armel builder, so13:50
Stskeepsdidn't expect that much of it :) low mem and all13:50
Stskeepsi will engage some beagle boards eventually for it instead13:50
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Stskeepsjohnx: any noticable difference?13:57
johnxrunning aptitude to install actually does feel a little better13:59
johnxnot sure if that's confirmation bias :P13:59
Stskeepsi have no idea either13:59
johnxwe'll need to time some stuff I guess13:59
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Stskeepsi wonder if there's even glibc benchmarks, heh14:01
johnxwell, we can test stuff higher up that's heavy on libm14:01
johnxapt-* is linked against libm14:02
johnxmaybe it was actually faster O_o14:02
Stskeepswhat else is there.. cairo?14:05
johnxlots of stuff14:05
johnxldd /usr/bin/* | less14:05
johnx /libm14:05
johnxpython :)14:06
* Stskeeps glances at prelik14:07
johnxand midori14:07
Stskeepsi'm going to recompile cairo too and see if that makes a difference14:10
Stskeeps(and some of the dependancies that might like it)14:10
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johnxinteresting :)14:15
GeneralAntillesDrivers for what?14:15
GeneralAntillesDoes TI have a wifi chipset?14:15
johnxthat's a really good question14:16
suihkulokkigoogle wilink14:16
Stskeepsi think i saw it in android source14:17
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TokyoDanHello. Is there some kind of lock on files created with an editor like PyGTKEditor that prevent the permissions from being changed?14:46
TokyoDanI created a python file called the I open the X Terminal do a ls -l and see that the file is 644 and owned by User. I try chmod 777 on it but it remains 644. Funny thing is if i do chmod 111 the the permissions become ---------.14:46
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TokyoDanI can take away priveleges but I can't add priveleges higher than what the file was originally created with.14:49
GeneralAntillesAre you root?14:49
johnxis the file on your sd card?14:49
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TokyoDanHello GeneralAntilles:& johnx. I tried as both user and root. And the file is on the internal sd card.14:50
johnxtwo things: file systems that are formatted as FAT can't really hold file permissions. Also, the internal card is mounted noexec14:51
TokyoDanHow can I get around that. Use only internal memory?14:52
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TokyoDanI'm trying to execute a Python file by just typing the file name at the shell prompt.14:53
johnxjust use the internal memory14:53
johnxthat's the easiest way14:53
johnxthere are other solutions, but I don't think they're necessary14:53
TokyoDanIs there a way t change the "noexec" mount of the internal card?14:54
GeneralAntillesandre___, EXCUUUUSEEE MEEEE :P14:54
johnxof course14:54
johnxmount -o remount,exec /media/mmc214:54
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andre___GeneralAntilles, i do, i do.14:55
TokyoDanWill that stick even after a power reset? And will it have any adverse effects?14:55
GeneralAntillesandre___, guenther?14:55
andre___no idea at all, shall I call him?14:55
johnxTokyoDan, no adverse effects. it won't stick14:55
johnxyou'll have to go and change some scripts I guess14:55
GeneralAntillesDoesn't he have a quota or something? :P14:55
TokyoDanThanks johnx. I guess I'll take your advice and use the internal memory.14:56
andre___GeneralAntilles, no idea, last time i spoke with him was two weeks ago and he was still busy understanding new stuff14:56
johnxif you want to be able to type: and have it run you should put it in /usr/bin after you're done editing it anyways14:57
GeneralAntillesThe lynch-pin people on all my pet projects are going missing. :(14:57
GeneralAntillesFirst guenther, now jott. . . .14:57
TokyoDanJohnx, is that a comma or a period between remount and exec?14:57
TokyoDanThanks again for your help. I've been pissing around for an hour trying to change the permission of that file.14:58
johnxblame MS for a backwards filesystem :)14:58
GeneralAntillesWhen are we going to get a compatible filesystem that isn't absolute shit?14:59
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johnxwhen MS dies off or is forced to interoperate (as it dies off)15:00
TokyoDanWell I've been learning a lot about the N810 and refreshing my long lost knowledge of UNIX thanks to you guys here and on ITT.15:01
TokyoDanJust getting back into programming vi Python after a 15 year absence.15:02
johnxyou were doing python 15 years ago?15:03
johnxvery early in the game :)15:03
GeneralAntillesvia, johnx. :P15:03
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TokyoDanNot Python, other languages. Python is all new to me.15:04
TokyoDanvarious assembly langs, basic, C, smalltalk.15:05
GeneralAntillesThat just cracks me up that turning on the screen to display that stupid banner about the wallwart wastes more power than would be saved by unplugging it.15:07
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TokyoDan1Back via n810/pidgin15:15
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Are you sure that an idle charger doesn't waste any power? Pretty hard to believe.15:17
johnxX-Fade, check out the bug report...let me find the number15:17
GeneralAntillesxM5x tested it15:17
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JaffaThe final comment asserts that the message uses more power than the 264 & 609 microA measured. Or is the 609 microA for "Adapter #2" when the thing wakes up15:20
GeneralAntillesTwo different chargers15:20
GeneralAntillesBoth idle15:20
TokyoDan1Johnx, where did you say i should put python scripts after editing? And why?15:21
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JaffaGeneralAntilles: So where's the measurement to back up the assertion? It seems odd to carefully measure two idle chargers (with an enormous difference in idle current) but then just *say* the tablet's message uses more energy; without any figure.15:22
johnxTokyoDan1, in /usr/bin because that's in your $PATH15:22
X-FadeSo that is 14 milliamp hours wasted per day?15:22
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GAN800The detailed numbers are on itT.15:23
JaffaGAN800: then a link to the post needs to be added to the bug report ;-)15:23
JaffaFor my next trick, I've got some eggs I can show you how to suck15:24
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GAN800Jaffa, what's the point? The message isn't ever going away anyway.15:25
JaffaThen what's the point of the bug?15:26
TokyoDan1 That makes sense johnx.15:26
GAN800Jaffa, I can't just let idiocy like that go down without any objection.15:26
JaffaEither it's a realistic attempt to change the behaviour, especially if the reasoning behind it is empirically provable as faulty, or it's just noise in Bugzilla to act as a rant.15:26
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GAN800Well, it's a legislative issue, apparentlt15:27
JaffaReally? In what region?15:27
GAN800So it's out of Nokia's hands.15:27
X-FadeLet me guess. California ;)15:28
GAN800I don't know specifics, but so says a Nokia employee.15:28
GAN800EU, apparently.15:29
GAN800From Europe? I'd expect it. . . .15:29
JaffaMy brand new non-Nokia phone doesn't do anything like that, manufactured within the EU; sold by an EU-based company and sold within the EU to an EU citizen.15:29
JaffaGAN800: You read too much of the _Daily Mail_ or the _Daily Express_.15:29
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GAN800Could be a more general pro-green sort of deal15:30
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GAN800Neither, actually15:30
GAN800But with the baffling sorts of directions politics takes over there15:31
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JaffaYou're also beginning to sound like Karel with his "all Europeans are bending over to let Islam shaft them" (or somesuch)15:31
* GAN800 shrugs15:32
GAN800Whatever, the banner's stupid and needs to go away15:32
GAN800I don't care if it draws as much power as my computer, my devices don't get to tell me what to do.15:32
* X-Fade has other problems to worry about. This is just a stupid waste of time ;)15:32
Jaffa - for example15:33
suihkulokkiwell it's easy to imagine how the banner came to life15:33
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suihkulokkisome green delegation comes to meet $bigcompany, waves furiously hands and complans that $bigcompany isn't doing enough for enviroiment15:34
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suihkulokki$bigcompany boss promisest to do more15:34
suihkulokki..and passes the message down "do something to make us look more enviroimental"15:35
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* GeneralAntilles needs to get moving on killing the old wiki.15:41
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, can you figure out what you want the redirect pages to look like?15:42
GeneralAntillesThen I'll take your template and fill them all out.15:42
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: What redirects?15:42
GeneralAntillesFor the popular pages on the old wiki to the new wiki.15:43
GeneralAntillesWill somebody educate this guy about Red Pill already?
zshi is it possible to create fiasco image from n810 after update?15:43
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Do you need a page for that? Why not just do an actual redirect?15:43
GeneralAntillesThat's the plan, but I wasn't sure on the specifics15:44
X-FadeI think you can create redirect folders for them.15:46
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, redirection seems to only be to other wiki articles15:49
X-FadeYou can do it to urls too, I think.15:50
GeneralAntillesSeems like an http redirect would be cleaner15:51
X-FadeIt can do that.15:51
GeneralAntillesMidgard terrifies me. :(15:51
X-FadeLet me see if I can find the option ;)15:51
X-FadeOr we can do it via Apache rewrite rules?15:54
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GAN800I dunno, that's why I'm asking you. :P I just know I want page a to point to page b.15:56
GAN800dneary, are you satisfied with the current list of copies and redirects?15:57
X-FadeGAN800: Just give me a list with:15:58
X-FadeRewriteRule ^/community/wiki/blablablapagehere
X-FadeShould be pretty straight forward.15:58
GAN800I need a couple more people to compare the lists and then we can do it.15:59
X-FadeOk, well I can setup the apache server to do the redirects.15:59
GAN800Though I wonder how many pages on the site are linking to the old wiki.16:00
X-FadeThat doesn't matter as they will get redirected ?16:00
GAN800Well, not every page is getting a redirect16:00
X-FadeNo, but we can make a catch-all one.16:01
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dnearyGAN800: The one I added to last week?16:05
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Stskeepsjohnx: ,
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johnxStskeeps, great! I'll install those and give midori a try16:11
suihkulokkijohnx: before and after?16:12
* Stskeeps is really bad at noticing performance differences himself16:13
johnxsuihkulokki, to see if cairo will affect js performance much? or should I switch back to a non-vfp glibc first?16:13
johnxI'll switch back to non-vfp everything for baseline16:13
johnxcouple minutes...16:13
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X-FadeGAN800: About the usage of wrong sections: I've asked Ed if he can implement a rule to force all "wrong" sections to user/other in the autobuilder.16:24
X-FadeGAN800: I'll find out if we can do that easily and after that will write up a proposal for moving forward.16:25
GeneralAntillesGraham flipped a shit last time that was suggested.16:25
X-FadeHehe, we talked with him at the summit.16:26
X-FadeI think Jaffa and I can talk with him if that is the case.16:27
GeneralAntillesHonestly, I'd rather see it implemented either as a simple warning (or maybe a complete built-refusal at the autobuilder level) and handle the section enforcement at the Application manager level.16:27
X-FadeWell, the warning will come as soon as we have a list ;)16:27
GeneralAntillesOf course.16:27
JaffaIndeed, isn't it the App Mgr's job to ignore sections, rather than making the autobuilder move them?16:28
X-FadeSo we might want to get a preliminary list over the weekend.16:28
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JaffaThat just encourages people to get sniffy about the autobuilder. Have it as a warning, but then we make App Mgr only show the standard (and i18nable) sections16:28
JaffaX-Fade: agreed16:28
X-FadeJaffa: But there is my main issue:16:29
X-FadeIf we are going for the subsections, do we want to create all subsections beforehand.16:29
JaffaAh. True.16:29
* GeneralAntilles hates categorization so much.16:30
X-FadeOr do we want to allow people to create _sub_sections themselves ;)16:30
JaffaThat's a more specific case of the problem I just thought of: changing the sections without redeploying16:30
GeneralAntillesI was looking for inspiration on the types of sections that might be useful16:30
GeneralAntillesit's interesting to see the sorts of systems other people use16:31
JaffaI'm relatively happy with arbitrary subsections, as long as they are named after the package, rather than some arbitrary thing the developer thinks other people should use16:31
johnxsuihkulokki, ok, that site is just crashing debian's midori...16:31
X-Fadeabout omap3 and better camera: user/imaging ? :)16:31
JaffaVideo's multimedia; pics aren't.16:31
GeneralAntillesWhere would GIMP, or MyPaint go?16:33
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X-FadeIt might be a good thing to write a description for all categorie with what type of applications should be put there.16:34
* Jaffa finds Ubuntu's menu structure quite close to how I (manually) organise my Windows start menu:16:34
GeneralAntillesWhat about user/system?16:34
GeneralAntillesNokia uses it for osso-software-version16:34
GeneralAntillesWould something like a rotation-support metapackage go there or Support?16:35
JaffaAccessories, Games, Graphics, Internet(/Networking), Office, Programming, Sound & Video, System(/System Tools).16:35
Jaffa"Support" sounds useless to me. But I've not looked at the rationale recently.16:35
johnxGeneralAntilles, I vote "System" for that16:35
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Jaffarotation-support is user/system - it's something the user installs once and never accesses as an application16:35
X-FadeJaffa: Support can be help documentation, language support etc?16:36
Mek has the list of categories for the menu spec16:36
GeneralAntillesCurrently, OpenAFS, krb5, and libillumination0 are in user/support16:36
X-FadeMek: Interesting.16:37
JaffaX-Fade: "Documentation" or "Help" would seem better. Language support for the OS, is an interesting question. But for a particular app it should be something like "user/multimedia/Canola", "Package: canola-language-pack-ru" (or something)16:37
JaffaMek: ta.16:38
JaffaYeah, I like those :)16:38
X-FadeJaffa: Rule one: Never _ever_ capitalize ;)16:38
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JaffaX-Fade: If subsections are used to package together all the Canola crap, etc. how can we handle the *display* of the sub-section being possibly different to the key, then?16:39
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X-FadeJaffa: Localization.16:40
X-FadeJaffa: So the 'technical english' term is used for the packager. And the AM shows it localized?16:40
JaffaYe-es. But in the specific Canola example, the system's not going to be able to have l10n for 'canola' before installing some Canola-related package.16:41
JaffaX-Fade: Or are you envisaging sub-sections for *not* grouping together the multi-package app stuff?16:41
X-FadeJaffa: Well, I'm not sure about that.16:42
X-FadeIt all depends on how we can transform the AM.16:42
X-FadeThis whole mess would be better if the AM displayed it better.16:42
GeneralAntillesI wonder if we'll be able to talk m-vo into tossing in a few minor changes to make the categories view mildly bearable.16:42
X-FadeBut still.16:42
JaffaX-Fade: ah :)16:43
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I have talked with mvo about that in the past.16:43
GeneralAntillesI'd like to see at least one of my improved views implemented16:43
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: He was willing to give some people access to the svn as long as they worked in a separate branch.16:43
GeneralAntillesBut I doubt he has time on that.16:43
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: But I doubt he has time for that.16:43
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Correct, he doesn't have the time. But does want to patch if a patch is ready.16:44
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, I've yet to get anybody to step up for that so far. :\16:44
JaffaPatches should work, as long as a) they get accepted; b) they don't duplicate work he's already doing16:44
Jaffalardman and I started discussing having time for it.16:44
GeneralAntillesReally wish we knew something about what sort of direction Fremantle will be taking. . . .16:44
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I'm no gtk wizard, I'm afraid ;)16:44
JaffaLast weekend's room rearrangement took about 1.5 days longer than the 1 day I allocated, though16:44
JaffaGeneralAntilles: indeed.16:44
JaffaThe existing UI's hardly a compelling finger experience (mmm, just make the buttons bigger)16:45
JaffaI like the old idea of a tag cloud16:45
GeneralAntillesWish the list rendering were optimized16:45
JaffaIf you've just got a device and are going to install something to play with it, what category has the most breadth16:45
X-FadeJaffa: And add a thumb scroll bar ;)16:46
JaffaGeneralAntilles: s/optimized/in any way sensible/16:46
GeneralAntillesI still don't get why it needs to regenerate the whole damn list.16:46
JaffaX-Fade: :)16:46
MangoFusionwhy even have categories anyway16:46
X-FadeJaffa: Well you laugh, but things like that would help a lot ;)16:46
MangoFusionusually if i want to install something, i already know what it is called16:46
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Because it's a frontend, and isn't fully integrated into apt. So it doesn't know what packages have been installed when you install package `a'.16:46
JaffaMangoFusion: Effectively - at the moment - we don't.16:46
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I like browsing.16:47
JaffaMangoFusion: There's a use case of "I want to install a video player, don't show me bible reading software"; or "I want a new game"16:47
GeneralAntillesBut the "All" list is starting to get a bit big for that.16:47
MangoFusioni guess16:47
MangoFusionin any case16:47
MangoFusionwould be nice if i could quickly see the description of an app16:47
GeneralAntillesI want some "New packages" and "Popular packages" buttons hooked into Downloads.16:48
MangoFusionmost of the time it just lists an ambiguous name (if it does fit on the screen)16:48
X-FadeMangoFusion: True, but you won't be able to do that with 'ALL' in a list of 500 entries or more ;)16:48
MangoFusionbah, i'll just let you guy's sort it out ;)16:49
GeneralAntillesSo many ideas, too few people with the time and skills to implement them.16:50
JaffaOr inclination without, as you say, knowing what Nokia's plans are (there must be some)16:51
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I have the solution!16:51
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Make AM a Maemo 5 champion!16:51
JaffaGenerally, software (including Maemo) improves over time. Why bother hurting ourselves now when Nokia might do it "for us" over then ext 9 moonths16:51
JaffaActually, that's not a bad idea16:51
X-FadeThe killer app we want Nokia to support!16:51
JaffaIn fact, I think it's a reallt *good* idea.16:52
GeneralAntillesI was going to say "Tie rm_you to a desk and make him work 24/7 Clockwork Orange style?"16:52
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johnxGeneralAntilles, I'll get on that. I need a supply of Dr. Pepper and ... no that's about it16:53
* GeneralAntilles chains johnx to the floor behind rm_you16:53
GeneralAntillesNow you make sure he doesn't sleep. :P16:53
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X-FadeBut actually, it would be worth a shot.16:53
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, yeah, I actually like that idea.16:54
GeneralAntillesIf only to see Quim's reaction.16:54
JaffaIndeed. As a community we want to explore the available apps and have a nice gateway for it.16:54
RST38hAbiWord. Do we have AbiWord already?16:54
GeneralAntillesIn beta16:54
JaffaNot reliabilty16:54
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RST38hBTW, when you say "explore the available apps" what do you mean?17:16
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RST38hThere are basically ~20-30 really usable/useful Maemo apps and pretty much everybody knows what these are17:16
johnxnew apps do sometimes appear in app manager with little or no announcement17:17
GAN800There are new things coming out17:17
X-FadeGAN800, Jaffa: Interesting document:
X-FadeIt seems mvo is working on this too ;)17:18
JaffaX-Fade: some very interesting things in there :)17:19
X-FadeJaffa: Yeah, but that seems to be Harmattan stuff.17:20
X-FadeSomething like that :)17:20
GAN800'shot on sight' hehe17:22
X-FadeAt least that will give us something to talk about ;)17:23
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johnxsuihkulokki, I'm running the sunspider benchmark instead. dromaeo was just crashing the browser17:24
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yacoobRST38h, is there a list of those 20-30 apps? :)17:46
johnxyeah, on any post where someone asks "What are the best appzzzz?" on itt...17:47
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infobotmethinks musthave is Maemo Mapper, FBReader, Vagalume, Canola, Numpty Physics, X-Chat, Evince, ScummVM, MyTube, MPlayer, Advanced Backlight, USBControl, Large Statusbar Clock, Transmission and much more. Also see
yacoobGeneralAntilles, any reason not to create a rudimentary 'Notable apps' page? with a content from the referenced page?17:50
GAN800Because that's already the page?17:50
GAN800No sense duplicating it17:50
yacoob(and person that put fennec on  'release quality' list must be out of his/her mind :)17:50
GAN800You could create a redirect if you wanted, though.17:51
yacoobGAN800, not really something that a passer-by would find by title. And yeah, redirect I'll make.17:51
GAN800Add it to one of the front page templates, too, if you want.17:52
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yacoobno anonymomus edits17:52
yacoobheh :)17:52
yacoobwell, tbh, I'd either reformat the page (to remove stuff that might confuse person not familiar with the organizational work behind it), or just create a new one with just a list of apps17:55
RST38hyacoob: yes, look at in Downloads, under Popular and Stars17:56
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Stskeepsjohnx: any benefit?18:04
johnxI'm doing the test with vfp libs installed right now18:05
qwerty12Stskeeps: Dunno about wifi mac but bluetooth mac is easy as hell to change on N80018:05
Stskeepsjohnx: alright18:05
johnxwifi mac is easy enough to change too :)18:05
Stskeepsqwerty12: ok, well, using ifconfig yes18:05
Stskeepsi was just wondering if MAC comes from CAL18:05
qwerty12Stskeeps: Hmm, you can do it like that? I just run echo after bt-cal has done its stuff18:06
qwerty12johnx: But does it work properly? I hear people have problems associating with APs?18:06
Stskeepsqwerty12: yeah, when we didn't have wlan-cal i ifconfiged18:06
johnxqwerty12, in os2008 yes18:06
qwerty12ah, ok. I just remember the "cracking" map application thread...18:07
johnxor rather it doesn't work well in os200818:07
johnxit does work well in a bare debian install18:07
johnxit probably doesn't work all that well in deblet with nokia stuff running18:07
qwerty12cal is equivalent to nvram on routers. Does nothing except store information and programs read it and do the dirty work18:08
qwerty12Hmm, what is the codename for N800?18:09
yacoobdoes this osmo thing does a good job at being a pim?18:09
qwerty12Ahh, Nokia Gagarin18:10
Stskeepsyacoob: if they fixed some pixel and not variable width/heights, it would be good on tablet18:10
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yacoobneed to give it a try then, once I get my nokia back18:12
yacoobunless it doesn't sound the alarms when asleep?18:12
Stskeepsyacoob: patches.. :P18:13
Stskeepslo lbt18:15
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Stskeepsim wondering if i should make a daemon listening on charger events to enable performance mode / ondemand18:18
qwerty12Stskeeps: get in touch with lcuk18:18
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Stskeepsqwerty12: i know how to do it :P18:18
solmumahaStskeeps: i thought about that too, that feature would be nice for advanced backlight for example18:19
qwerty12Stskeeps: I don't doubt it but if its already been done...18:19
Stskeepsqwerty12: it's a dbus listener at most :P18:19
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solmumahaslider for different modes and an option to switch to performance when charging18:20
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GAN800Somebody should write an adv battery instead.18:21
JaffaYes, making advanced-backloght the default "let's make it do everything better" is feeping creaturism.18:22
StskeepsGAN800: i still wonder what austin che will make of his BME crackin'18:23
GAN800An adv-battery shouldn't be all that difficult to implement.18:23
StskeepsGAN800: moontiger was working on a generic HAL battery applet at some point18:23
MangoFusionadv-battery... what, does that make the tablet cry if its running low on power?18:24
MangoFusionor maybe its a big funky battery image18:25
Stskeeps"Keep the charger in, you dumbwit. It's more practical"18:25
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johnxmaybe adv-power would be a better name18:25
johnxStskeeps, vfp makes midori a little slower at javascript it seems :/18:26
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Stskeepsjohnx: k18:27
johnxlet me post results18:27
Stskeepsit's kinda hard to argue - was it with or without cache?18:27
lbtStskeeps: work...   hi, it's been a while!!18:28
johnxStskeeps, it was rerun 5 times each18:28
johnxperformance mode both times18:28
Stskeepslbt: indeed18:29
Stskeepsjohnx: alright18:29
Stskeepsjesus crist18:30
johnxsorry O_o18:30
qwerty12Pastebin, please!18:30
johnxsorry, didn't realize ;-_-18:31
Stskeepsi just got assaulted by an url :(18:31
johnxthis is w/ vfp:
glassdoes the friggin url contain the entire page encoded18:32
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johnxapparently :/18:33
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johnxI just did a ctrl+l, ctrl+c, ctrl+p so I never saw the whole thing18:33
johnxwithout vfp:
Stskeepsmm, confidence intervals may indicate they're similar maybe18:34
johnxinterestingly a zaurus running angstrom completes the tests faster but with only 64MB it's a much worse real-world browsing experience18:34
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johnxback later18:42
nemojohnx: what browser is that?18:43
nemojohnx: be aware that sunspider has a bug in it which will hurt Gecko performance18:43
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nemoI don't think it has been fixed yet18:44
nemo"deliberately placed flag that everyone ignores except gecko" :)18:44
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nemogranted, that's only in one test18:44
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l7hrm, does anyone know how i can kill a misbehaving desktop widget?18:58
l7i think omweather is causing my n800 to be unable to finish booting18:58
l7where are the startup variables for the widgets?18:59
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i kinda don't disagree with qgil's view on things really, from nokia's pov, so i'm not sure i would be able to argue, - except contribute directions18:59
qwerty12l7: for omweather, put a file called noomweather.txt in your internal memory card and omweather wont start19:00
Stskeepsjust looking closer at the mails now19:00
`Macewtf is going on with this goddamn key19:02
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: but he's really saying it quite clearly, which may be the death of maemo eventually, "We have 0 plans of moving Maemo into that direction."19:02
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Stskeepswhich means nokia sees maemo as firmware for their tablets, and they provide a sdk for that device, and that's that19:03
l7hrm, trying that now19:03
Stskeepslike a typical hardware/engineering company19:03
Stskeepsand try to play nice and support the community around it19:04
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l7qwerty12: does anything need to be in noomweather.txt?19:24
qwerty12l7: no19:24
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l7hmm, i put the file in /media/mmc2/19:24
l7doesn't seem to have changed anything19:25
l7it looks like the UI won't load completely19:25
l7i get the sidebar on the left side, but it's blank19:25
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l7i don't suppose there's a safe mode you can boot into that would allow you to uninstall problematic stuff?19:29
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l7bleh, i guess i'll just reflash19:32
l7hrm, where's that wiki article on reflashing?19:33
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l7hrm, is there a mirror of the maemo wiki?19:34
Pavlovis there a way to make a full backup of my device so i can flash a different image on it and then restore it?19:34
l7hrm, setting up booting from SD seems like the best solution for that19:41
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Stskeepswtf @ google20:00
Stskeepsi search for upstart moblin20:00
Stskeepsand it searches for upstart goblin instead without telling me20:00
qwerty12God, I remember my brother watching that shit...20:01
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disco_stuqwerty12: lol20:03
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Stskeepsyes, your "brother"..20:04
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qwerty12Erm, oops, I've been caught out20:04
* Stskeeps ponders idly on a quest20:04
disco_stui have 25 episodes of dragon ball in my tablet20:06
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disco_stuthat is a nice series20:06
Stskeepsqwerty12: am i insane if im pondering if i can debootstrap based on
qwerty12Stskeeps: And end up with some weird, uncompleted maemo clone? :P20:07
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Stskeepsqwerty12: well, also to prove a point20:08
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Stskeepsthat it may not be possible to construct maemo from the stuff they released20:08
ShadowJK_what bits are missing?20:09
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* Stskeeps should really stop caring and code instead20:10
ShadowJK_Let me guess, the community wants maemo to run on other devices too and think it'd make sense and would fight against google's android, but nokia wants it just on their own tablets and still cling desperately to symbian+s60?20:11
Stskeepsyes, that's about right20:11
ShadowJK_They should just make their execs use the tablet20:12
ShadowJK_before I had used the nit I thought using Linux on a mobile device was pure insanity20:13
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Sargun_ScreenI don't care who maemo works with20:16
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Sargun_Screenjust as long as its me20:16
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l7hrm, file manager has a link to backup/restore in it's tools menu20:18
l7doesn't really seem to make sense20:18
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* Jaffa bingles free wifi at Wetherspoons before _Hamlet_20:21
JaffaDavid Tennant & Patrick Stewart Shakespearey goodness20:23
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RST38hDr Who and Jean Luke Picard in Hamlet? =)20:29
RST38hDo tardis and Enterprise make appearance?20:29
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smackpotatois there any way i can make the curser visible at any time other than startup20:33
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StskeepsShadowJK_: and that kinda has made me give up on the maemo platform as anything i'd invest time in developing for20:41
Stskeepstablet hw, principle, sure, but not as worthwhile platform20:42
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ShadowJK_Well, their idea isn't bad per se20:43
ShadowJK_it's just that with their elephant in a porcelain store approach to opensauce they dont exactly attract much goodwill :)20:44
Stskeepsindeed - contributing back and such, but keeping the changes hidden until last minute :P20:44
ShadowJK_oh that's not unlike android20:45
ShadowJK_but google had shitloads of karma to blow away when they began20:45
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Khertan_n810Hi !20:55
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Stskeepshi Khertan_n81020:57
Khertan_n810hi Stskeeps20:57
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* Khertan_n810 is still finding a way to display nicely a list of alarm ..20:59
* Stskeeps should vacuum the house21:00
Stskeepsgf coming back tonight after 3 weeks gone21:01
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RST38hKhertan: What are the requirements?21:10
RST38hKhertan: Do you show by day, week, month? What is your granularity?21:10
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RST38hOct 24, 1929: Wall St crash21:14
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Stskeepsnow that would be irony21:16
lcuk~lart microsoft outlook21:17
* infobot pulls out a ClueBat (tm) and thwaps microsoft outlook21:17
* lcuk feels a bit better21:17
lcuk~lart microsoft outlook21:17
* infobot whips microsoft outlook with a wet and grimy noodle just because21:17
RST38hwhy use it?21:18
lcukthats the point i dont21:18
lcukbut after windows update it came back21:19
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lcuk:) now you see my angst21:19
lcukam i the only one thankful its friday?21:20
Khertan_n810why using window ?21:20
Khertan_n810hi lcuk :)21:20
* RST38h is ok about other days too21:20
qwerty12_N800lcuk, 'ell no :p. i get a week off :D21:20
lcukheh evening khertan - for about 3 reasons21:20
lcukyou jammy b'strd21:21
Khertan_n810RST38h: for alarm ?21:21
Khertan_n810just datetime21:21
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RST38hKhertan: what I really want to know is whether you want to show a single alarm only, or all the alarms for some time period21:22
RST38hdepending on which one it is, the ui will be different21:22
lcukor just the list of all alarms known to the system21:23
Khertan_n810ah all alarms for an events21:24
RST38hif it is just one alarm, then use huge letters centered at the screen and simulate those flip-over displays is possible21:24
Khertan_n810lcuk: jammy b'strd ??21:24
RST38hall alarms globally, use a time-sorted vertical list21:25
RST38hif it is alarms-by day, use vertical list for days and divide each list item vertically by hour21:25
lcukheh khertan, it was aimed at qwerty12_N800, i dont know how to pronounce it without sounding northen21:25
lcukhow many alarms are people expecting?21:25
Khertan_n810in fact in next futur beautifull better calendar ever seen in the universe21:25
Khertan_n810an event can have21:26
Khertan_n810multiple alarms21:26
RST38hbtw, check how Papyrus does it - you may get some ideas21:26
Khertan_n810on a single event21:26
RST38hPapyrus is very popular21:26
lcukand? those are reminders beforehand and shouldnt be part of the typical views?21:26
Khertan_n810papyrus ?21:26
lcukanymore than a dot somewhere at least21:26
Khertan_n810they found how to include alarm in papyrus by a genetic way ?21:27
lcuk"in 3 minutes the alarm will go off to remind you that in 5 minutes an alarm will be going off to remind you that a task should have been finished 5 minutes before"21:27
lcukjust show the tasks and events -  and if those tasks have reminder bings they dont need disyplaying on the generic list21:27
Khertan_n810hum ... i could add this option for you lcuk :)21:27
Khertan_n810this is for editing it :)21:28
Khertan_n810not displaying it in the generic list21:28
lcukhow many reminders do you need?21:28
Khertan_n810sometimes 7 or 8 :)21:28
lcukfix the problem upstream21:28
Khertan_n810it s not a problem21:29
lcukso for 1 event you need 7 reminders?21:29
Khertan_n810yep example ... one event starting monday and finishing friday21:29
Khertan_n810you can need event each day at 9h21:30
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lcukthats a recurring event with 5 instances though, different to reminders for a single event21:31
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RST38hKhertan: use colors21:32
Khertan_n810not reccuring ... it a single event wich is 5 day long21:32
RST38hlcuk: I think he needs an event that lasts multiple days21:32
lcuki know the problem, outlook does it21:32
RST38hKhertan: Ok, let us say you have a vertical list by day.21:32
Khertan_n810no no i just need a way to display thing nicely to edit the reminder list of one event21:33
RST38hKhertan: To denote such a long event, you use a certain color to start it on monday and finish it some time on friday21:33
RST38hAnd let the user drag those boundaries with his finger21:33
Khertan_n810hum i ll take my car ...21:34
Khertan_n810see you tomorrow21:34
Khertan_n810and thx for idea21:34
lcukKhertan_n810, have a nice evening21:34
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lcukRST38h, have you ever been just dropping off to sleep and had such cool idea that you knew you had to open eyes again and write it down21:38
RST38hlcuk: I have21:40
RST38hlcuk: Always went back to sleep though =)21:40
lcukheh, well i had one of the moments last night21:40
RST38hdid you write it down?21:40
RST38hwas it about banana being smaller than its skin?21:40
lcukso i reached over for my 810, opened my eyes and slid the keyboard out and almost blinded my fscking self - i almost threw it across the room21:40
Stskeepsadvanced backlight21:41
RST38hyep. advanced blacklight it is.21:41
lcuknormally i leave it on minimum (thx to abl)21:41
lcukand in liqbase cos its dark21:41
lcukbut this time it was on max and brightwhite21:41
Stskeepslike the flash of a thousand suns21:41
lcukyeah sts21:42
lcukhave you seen the flash that liqbase does when you take a photo?21:42
RST38hDoes Nokia use LEDs or the traditional backlight?21:42
lcukheh, its very useful, people know the pic was took and carry on moving again21:42
lcuki dunno rst, it was too bright last night21:43
lcuki want my nokia to know and respect what time it is and the fact i put it to sleep21:43
lcukand it should never wake me up like that again21:43
RST38hlcuk: it should also talk back to you!21:43
ShadowJK_if advanced backlight only supported using the light sensor :(21:43
lcukmy sensor is covered over all the time21:44
RST38hlcuk: More importantly though, do you still remember what that idea was?21:44
lcukyes actually :)21:44
lcukN1 (original) is the lower one with the sticker
lcukrst, yes i needed to make a note of it for that very reason21:45
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penguinbaitare we having fun yet?21:49
lcukis wd40 safe to clean the screen with?21:49
lcuki am always having fun21:49
lcukapart from when im not21:49
lcukyes l7, cleansing and lubricating21:50
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lcukok pb, not always before this year i spent a couple of years moping about (mainly linked to .net) but now i have my mojo21:51
penguinbaitits nice to find your mojo :)21:51
RST38hyou can just as well use olive oil to clean your screen =)21:51
penguinbaitjust give it a good lick21:51
lcuknot the base though21:52
penguinbaitthats what she said!21:52
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l7hrm, does the n800 care which distro created a .swap file?21:53
penguinbaitswap formatting is all the same21:53
qwerty12_N800shouldn't do, a swap file is blank21:54
l7i have a .swap file on my internal SD card from my last install and i wonder if i should erase it and start over21:54
penguinbaitso no, I would think not21:54
lcukpb, this year ive gotten to do what ive been trying to do for years :)21:54
l7well that saves me some trouble21:54
BULLE_l7: i doubt they changed the swap fileformat, and if so, swapon should complain21:54
qwerty12_N800lcuk, eradicate your northen accent!?!21:54
l7BULLE_: yeah, no complaints, it just picks it up and uses it if it's there i guess21:55
lcukthat happens everytime i stop talking surprisingly21:55
penguinbaitIts nice what you can work on things people appreciate21:55
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qwerty12_N800lcuk, lol, i'm just messing around. if i'm too hyped and my speech reflects that, my northern accent comes out too :p21:56
l7hrm, swapspace says "?SWAPSPACE2" when i do head or tail of it21:56
lcukive sussed things anyway, and when my next video comes out ill be talkin from the kitchen - i can speak without wakin tracy up21:56
penguinbaitwhats up qwerty, do you get your drivers license this year?  Now that your 16?21:57
l7is it possible to take a look at what's written in swap?21:57
qwerty12_N800hey pb,  I can only get when i'm 17 :( but i can apply for one now21:58
penguinbaitIs that the law?  17?21:58
penguinbaityou can get learner permit in US at 1521:58
qwerty12_N80095% sure it is :(21:58
qwerty12_N800well, i can apply for a licence to drive a moped at 16 :D22:00
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penguinbaitI Picture a tricked out moped with n800 mounted in front22:03
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* Mousey huggles his new working tablet22:15
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* Mousey huggles tablet 22:15
tabletMousey, oi, stop touching me22:15
* Mousey fondles tablet 22:15
* Mousey touches tablet liberally22:16
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Mouseyupgrading from singtel firmware -> diablo went without a problem, turns out i'm an illiterate dummy, who can't read documentation and missed a VITAL SWITCH22:16
* RST38h does not understand what Mousey is talking about22:17
RST38hSingtel firmware? Vital switches? Have you tried sonic screwdriver?22:17
Mouseyfor those that missed it, here's the wallpaper from the singtel firmware.. (many people weren't impressed)..
qwerty12_N800lul, wtf22:18
Mouseyit was an adventure22:18
Mouseyi got it back from palco with a singtel firmware22:19
Mouseythen, because i'm a dumbass, i couldn't upgrade it to diablo22:19
lcukthats classy22:19
Mouseythot i had a problem22:19
* lcuk throws up in his mouth a little22:19
Mouseybut no, i'm just a tard22:19
lcukare you waiting for someone to disagree? :P22:20
Mouseyi installed liqbase!22:20
Mouseybut then i don't get it22:20
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lcuk\o/ w000t, you aren't a tard :D22:20
Mouseylcuk: no no, i KNOW i'm a dummy =)22:20
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lcukwhat do you mean you dont get it22:21
Mouseywell i played with it for all of 3 minutes22:21
Mouseyoh, i did notice the resolution was different22:21
Mousey640x640. that was neat, i changed it22:22
Mouseyi guess this means it runs on other things22:22
penguinbaitanyone got any idea whats happening to this?  I have a script that converts some spanish characters and it works in ssh on maemo but not in xterm.  If I pass público it will convert to p'ublico in ssh in xterm it comes out as p blico22:22
lcukno, but it shows that resolution doesn't matter :)22:22
Mouseythat's about as far as i got22:22
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Mouseyoh, speaking of remapping things, i was messing around in /usr/share/X11/xkb/nokia_vdr/rx-44, tryna remap the sterling to a | but i forgot what the keyword for | is =(22:23
lcukits just an easy way to get info into the device and review it again22:23
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Mouseylcuk: like a notebook? like xournal but cooler?22:24
Mouseylike famous formulas that start out on napkins?22:25
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lcukheh, yes22:25
Mouseyi thought | was Bar, but my tablet tells me i'm WRONG22:25
lcuki have a very bad memory22:25
MouseyTab is Tab tho22:25
lcuki have to write things down to remember them22:26
lcukbut i got so sick of turning the page and they were gone22:26
lcuknow they arent :) and i can start to puull them together (carefully of course) and make use of them22:27
lcukif that use expands to taking a picture and writing an instant postcard to someone (with a nice new camera from nokia) then WOW!22:27
Mouseylcuk: ok, that's cool, i'll try using it for that, cuz i use xournal like that all the time22:27
lcukif its like writing on the back of a polaroid22:28
penguinbaitseriuosly, I put "público" in a file, if I am in ssh and cat the file I see "público" if I go to xterm and cat same file I see "p blico"22:28
qwerty12_N800penguinbait, remove the l!22:28
lcukor just extended 8bit22:28
* Mousey votes font22:29
Mouseycd p?blico22:29
penguinbaitl! ??22:30
qwerty12_N800yer,  púbico22:30
lcuk-1 qwerty - thats double minus lame22:31
qwerty12_N800lcuk, it's a  southern thing, you wouldn't understand :p22:31
penguinbaitI am a tad slow today :)22:31
lcukis it cheating by the way if i make a twitter clone but simply post my irc lines?22:32
qwerty12_N800penguinbait, i'm using lucida console as my font in osso-xterm and i see ú fine after running cat22:32
* lcuk whistles quietly22:33
penguinbaitI changed mine to lucida console and it still fails22:34
qwerty12_N800lcuk, kinda my fault for making it go in /usr/share/fonts :p. nice font though, thanks for the pointer via liqbase :p22:34
qwerty12_N800penguinbait, what's your encoding setting in osso-xterm?22:34
lcukcya later22:34
qwerty12_N800bye lcuk for now22:34
Mouseynone of this multicode stuff!22:35
Mouseyall characters ONE SINGLE CODE!22:35
qwerty12_N800penguinbait, same here though i'm using bash as my shell22:35
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qwerty12_N800zap put bash3 in extras. dunno if that is a reason i'm seeing the ú though22:36
penguinbaitif I change my encoding to latin it works?22:36
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GeneralAkbarIT'S A BUG!22:37
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penguinbaitFYI qwerty, its not bash22:41
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qwerty12_N800penguinbait, then it's your tablet of course!22:47
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BugBluewhere to get kismet for maemo?23:00
BugBlueit seems that it disappeared23:00
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RST38h...recent expansion of authority claimed by the Border Patrol to stop and search individuals up to 100 miles from any US border...23:02
RST38hThis should obviously be extended to the whole territory and they should get rights to confiscate property as well23:03
woglindeI know why I wouldnt travel there23:03
* RST38h is pretty sure .DE has got some amusing laws on its own though23:03
woglindenot yet23:04
woglindeor be sure you are not islamistic23:04
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woglindetraveling by airplane is now out of sign too, with the naked scanners23:05
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RST38hAir travel has become pretty outlandish now, but I really want to see the whole thing23:09
Mouseyi need a commodore emulator!23:10
RST38hRandom strip searches at the streets. Equipment confiscations. Incarceration for copyright violations. Cute street advertisements for DHS (as in "Beware: Your Family May Be Harboring A Terrorist Right Now!")23:11
woglindehm yes we had another strange story here23:12
RST38hHalf the kitchen aisle in department stores should also be fenced off, with all the "sensitive" chemicals (such as baking soda) sold by buyer's ID only23:12
woglindeislamistic terrorist are using child porn picture for communication23:12
BugBluetime to build a buildmachine23:12
RST38hwoglinde: + they can wank at it! =)23:12
BugBlueis there a virtual machine image I can leech to boot up and just crosscompile applications?23:13
BugBlueor do I have to build it myself like everyone else?23:13
woglindebugblue hm yes23:13
RST38hIt is called Maemo SDK23:13
woglindebut dont ask me where23:13
mariorzare there any docs on maybe doing some firmware hacking so that the Hildon UI is never loaded and load some custom app instead?23:13
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BugBlueha nice!23:14
RST38hmariorz: boot manager23:14
woglindefirmware hacking *sigh*23:14
qwerty12_N800BugBlue, you'll be glad to know kismet svn has driver for n800 wifi chip. not brilliant by any standards but i was able to run for 24h...23:14
BugBlueqwerty12_N800: I know it does have.. I did run kismet on my n810 for a while... until I updated23:15
mariorzcool, thanks eveyrone23:15
woglindeqwerty12 it will be better in the future with the new opensource driver23:15
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qwerty12_N800BugBlue, same here :D but i got my build of aircrack-ng back :)23:15
qwerty12_N800woglinde, yeah :)23:16
BugBlueqwerty12_N800: where did you get it?23:16
BugBlueah you're own build23:16
woglindesome one knows how to use a htc blue angel as inet modem with the n810?23:16
qwerty12_N800qwerty12_N800, i uploaded it on itt :)23:16
woglindebluetooth pairing works23:17
BugBluewoglinde: bluetooth pan?23:17
qwerty12_N800woglinde, bluetooth-pan23:17
woglindebut I tried23:17
woglindebut it shows nothing23:17
BugBlueargh.. there is no vmware player for mac os X23:17
woglindeI installed maemo-pan23:17
woglindebut what I have to configure than?23:17
BugBluetime for virtualbox23:17
BugBlue1 clic download and I didn't have to sell my soul23:18
qwerty12_N800woglinde, can you add it as a phone with the phone control panel applet?23:18
MangoFusionvmware fusion... well worth the money imo23:18
woglindeqwerty12 nope23:18
MangoFusionvirtualbox isn't that bad though23:18
woglindeqwerty12 otherwise I would not ask23:18
BugBluevirtualbox works on my linux workstation23:19
BugBlueif it doesn't work I convert it to xen and run it somewhere on the internet :P23:19
BugBlue[I do like linux]23:19
qwerty12_N800woglinde, hmm, brb23:20
woglindehm I will look up how bt-pan is working23:21
BugBluebt-pan created some sort of wireless network ... you just join the network and the phone is your router [that's the theory, practice will differ with every implementation ofcourse]23:22
woglindehm qwerty whats this configeditor that is shown there?23:23
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woglindehm ah23:23
woglindeproblem is pda detection23:23
qwerty12_N800woglinde, gconf-editor. ed bartosh's work but only for chinook so i sent it to diablo extras-devel23:24
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woglindebt suckz23:24
woglindewith all this protocols around23:24
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