IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2008-10-19

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lcukMaemo Extras Assistant00:02
lcukStep 3: upload source files00:02
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mikkov_dput should be in extras-devel, now (or soon)00:07
* qwerty12_N800 laughs at the irony but says thanks :)00:08
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mikkov_lcuk: build-depends are missing00:13
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lcukyeah, shitbags00:14
woglindelcuk ;)00:15
lcukcould someone decode this and try to give me a clue what to look for00:16
lcukplease :$00:16
infoboti heard upload-extras is
mikkov_build-depends are missing00:16
qwerty12_N800it has a cmdline telling what build-depends ypu need to put in00:16
lcukahhh ok but is that from within scratchbox or from outside00:17
qwerty12_N800within, run it and it will tell you what to specify00:18
mikkov_dpkg-depcheck -m dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b00:18
lcukqwerty12_N800, ok, ive run that, what do i do with the list00:22
woglindeadd it behind Build-Depends: debhelper (>= 2)00:22
woglindein control00:22
lcukfecking console wont c&p00:23
woglindelcuk hm another good would be that you can tag svn tree for the revisions00:23
woglindeso its easier to navigate00:24
woglindeor check out the code of a specifiy relaeas version00:24
lcukarseholey dilbertbrained halfbreed of a whore, why the feck wont my console copy and paste.   (did i tell you i hate vmware)00:25
lcukwoglinde, i keep trying to  but its another thing to remember00:25
qwerty12_N800lcuk, vmware tools installed (if from host to guest)?00:26
lcukim trying to copy from console into mousepad within same system00:26
lcukwith commas?00:28
* lcuk is doin it manually00:28
qwerty12_N800Build-Depends: item, item2, item3 etc00:29
fiekia2i with there were a numlock key00:31
woglindelcuk vmware can only cut and paste from xserver00:31
fiekia2or fn lock00:31
lcukone more question, in the change file, i list the description which includes its name00:32
lcukhow do i get rid of it, cos its not needed twice00:32
woglindelcuk hm wait a second00:33
qwerty12_N800hrm,  7c4514c0ba3e4d2a3e8ed6bea4b054d9 1469246 user/other extra liqbase_0.0.9_armel.deb ?00:33
lcukyes, i saw such giberish, but thought it was part of the signing, or is something else wrong00:34
_gregoroviuslcuk: dunno if you know it, but the book navigator seems broken in the 0.09 deb in the website00:34
_gregoroviusit doesn't show any files00:35
lcukive got it open now00:35
lcukhang on a mo00:35
qwerty12_N800hmm, i don't think the deb is meant to be uploaded as the autobuilder makes a deb but i may be wrong00:35
lcukyeri dont upload the .deb00:36
lcuki upload the src00:36
lcukshows books for me00:37
lcukwas just makin sure i was on correct version00:37
mikkov_you cab generate source.changes with dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -sa -S00:37
lcukonly .txt files are listed though00:37
_gregoroviusah, nevermind, my memory card isn't mounted for some reason00:38
lcukmikkov, i built package and it gave src and deb and stuff00:38
_gregoroviushowever, it's getting choked with the stamp tool even in performance mode00:38
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lcukhow many stamps are you goin for ?00:39
_gregorovius2 are enough00:39
_gregoroviusstart with a blank screen00:39
_gregoroviuspick the stamp tool and draw a big square over the whole screen00:39
_gregoroviusand then try to do it again00:39
lcukoh and then draw another one over full screen :D you probably go back in time00:40
lcukits like looking in an infinite mirror - it will finish rendering sometime in the next century00:40
_gregoroviusmy screen went blank00:40
lcukyer so's mine00:40
_gregoroviushad to reboot =P00:41
lcukstrangely enough, so have i00:41
lcuk:D wicked though00:41
* lcuk makes a mental note to limit recursion00:41
lcukactually, i already have00:41
lcukits the fact they are overlapping and trying to compelte each other00:42
_gregoroviusto understand recursion, you must first understand recursion00:42
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lcuk~last vmware00:55
lcuk~lart vmware and my typing00:56
* infobot shoves a crumpet down vmware and my typing's throat, happy now?! Huh? Want some JAM with that?00:56
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* lcuk kicks vmware in the goolies and reboots it01:03
whodatlcuk: VirtualBox ftw01:16
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lcukan office big enough for me to have a build machine to swing around to would be best for my head01:17
GeneralAntillesOr just dump Windows. :P ;)01:18
GeneralAntillesGrab a second monitor and a second box and use Synergy01:18
woglindeinstall windows into the vmware01:19
GeneralAntillesMaybe get a Beagle for a build machine.01:19
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woglindefunny idea01:20
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GeneralAntillesNo scratchbox nonsense, anyway.01:21
whodatbah. lcars theme leaves stuff behind when switching to another theme.01:22
qolelcuk810, is that your n810 running xchat?01:23
qwerty12_ZzZzqole, it's in extras01:24
* qwerty12_ZzZz is using xchat on an n800 atm01:24
qoleYep, that's what I use01:24
Stskeepsqole: <- some possible speedups, but maybe only if you use ext301:24
GeneralAntilleswhodat, blame Nokia.01:24
qolestylus keyboard FTW01:25
GeneralAntillesStylus keyboard sucks ass.01:25
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lcuk810heh yes but i wasnt watchin it01:25
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whodatgen: do i have to uninstall the lcars packages just to get around it?01:26
GeneralAntilleswhodat, uninstall the lcars-extras01:26
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* lcuk best get into extras this time01:26
whodatGeneralAntilles : yeah. but i wanted to leave it on here so I could occasionally use it.01:26
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lcukqole, that thing is flashing on your footer bar again01:28
liridoes the forum allow to search your own threads?01:29
liriahh, it's in the advanced search option01:29
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qoleStskeeps, I use ext2 to avoid the overhead of journaling; but that dir_index idea looks promising...01:30
qoleI already mount noatime too01:30
lcukqole, you havent kiilled the builder again have you01:31
lcukheh good01:31
lcukballs, can someone tell me whats still wrong with this:
qwerty12_ZzZzsome build-depends are still missing01:33
whodatlcik: you need to realign the external matrifier.01:33
qwerty12_ZzZzlcuk, if i was on my computer, i'd dig out the build-depends lines you are missing :/01:34
GAN800qwerty12 is just a liar, though.01:35
qwerty12_ZzZzNeva! :p01:35
GAN800ZzZz my ass. . . .01:35
lcukill try and battle on, i filled in everything it had in the check thingy01:35
woglindelcuk whats the control file looking now?01:35
qwerty12_ZzZzit was planned, but didn't happen :p01:36
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qwerty12_n800happy now? :p01:36
lcukBuild-Depends: debhelper (>= 2), x11proto-xext-dev, libpng12-dev, libjpeg62-dev, libosso-dev, libxv-dev, libxsp-dev01:36
liriwhat are the thoughts regarding ukmp vs canola2?01:36
lcukthats what it told me to put in01:36
woglindelcuk another tipp01:37
qwerty12_n800lcuk, eww, should have used svn export01:37
woglindeDepends: ${shlibs:Depends}, ${misc:Depends}, libx11-6, libxext6, libxv1, libxsp0,01:37
zapliri: the thoughts are: use MediaBox01:37
woglindelcuk the libx11-6 libs I think will automatic be detected with ${shlibs:Depends}01:37
GAN800lrir, UKMP is dead.01:38
lcukreading this log, arent these the ones that are wrong? :01:38
lcukNo package 'gstreamer-0.10' found01:38
lcukNo package 'libpng12' found01:38
lcukNo package 'libosso' found01:38
liriGAN800: really? I thought 1.6 was just out :)01:39
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liriGAN800: well it's sad to hear because the media listing in canola is the only disappointment I have with it01:39
zaplcuk: there's no spoon01:39
woglindelcuk if you would me give write access01:39
woglindeI would fix it in a minute01:39
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lcukgrab from svn and you could do a quick patch if its only a couple of minor things?01:40
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woglindelcuk ah right sorry01:41
lcuki try to keep svn bubbled right up to the top and my super secure high quality windows installation wont let anyone ssh through it01:42
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qoleI'm quite conflicted about the N810... I have two N800s, but no N810, and it isn't because I can't afford it01:57
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qoleI'm watching the thread over on ITt about the custom SD card adaptor craves1 is making... That might interest me more in the N81002:02
lcukqole, it does look very interesting02:02
lcukand it has the potential to open up a whole new suite of features02:03
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GAN800qole, spend the money on next gen stuff instead.02:05
qoleoh for sure. I almost bought a Pandora, but then I decided to let someone else debug the first ones. :)02:06
GAN800Get a Beagle when rev.c is out.02:06
qoleI'd actually be interested in a Beagle board, is rev.c a version that will have things like USB working?02:07
* lcuk will get a beagle when it comes ready prepared with a touchscreen preattached and a linux installed02:07
GAN800usb is working02:08
GAN800Rev.C just gets EHCI working.02:08
* qole agrees with lcuk02:08
GAN800and includes the new OMAP revision with NEON fixes.02:08
GAN800lcuk, that'll never happen.02:08
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qolemaybe even the Nokia name on it :D02:09
GAN800You're looking for what's called a 'Pandora'.02:09
qoleor, even better, "N900"02:10
GAN800That's farther away02:10
GAN800and the Beagle'd make a pretty sweet low power machine for other uses.02:10
qoleAnyone tried BlueMaemo yet?
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GAN800"Unable to update maemo-mapper. Update file corrupted." Interesting.02:24
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lcukfiles are in the queue again02:31
* lcuk is sick in his mouth a little02:31
GeneralAntillesIs image scaling working in MicroB for anybody with any of the recent Diablo releases?02:39
lcuk[2008-10-19 02:43:13] liqbase 0.1.1 has been queued for loading into diablo extras-devel repository02:41
lcuk^^^^ \:D/02:41
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moontigerlcuk, thnx for that comment u made on the news thingy with the chics in the kitchen pic02:56
lcukwhy? do you wanna see cloned gardeners as well? ill tell tracy to save one for you02:57
moontigerno i just appreciate your saying what u said ... it made me and gf smile :)02:58
qolehow long do we wait for liqbase to appear in extras-devel?02:58
qolejust refreshed, nothing there yet02:59
lcukummm well yeah, it technically is, but dont get it yet :$02:59
qolehm, like I said, it isn't showing03:00
lcukits showing on n203:00
qoleapt-get update; apt-cache policy liqbase shows nothing yet03:00
qolewhat's n2?03:02
lcuksecond nokia03:02
qoleI don't know about that03:04
lcukclean test machine03:04
lcukheh, sorry nicknames thread03:04
qolew00t, there it is! Another refresh did the trick03:04
lcukdamn no03:05
lcukhold on03:05
lcuk0.1.2 is goin up03:05
lcuka qwertyism managed to creep back in03:05
lcuk~lart qwerty12_N80003:05
* infobot runs at qwerty12_N800 with an origami Swiss Army knife, and inflicts a nasty paper cut03:05
qoleI'm not going to install it till you say, I just wanted to see it appear03:07
lcukright at the start qwerty put a message in the preinst03:07
lcuki thought it had gone for good, but it came back03:08
lcukat least now thanks to woglinde's help i can upload whenever i need to :)03:09
* qole shakes woglinde's hand, vigourously03:09
lcuk[2008-10-19 03:13:18] liqbase 0.1.2 has been queued for loading into diablo extras-devel repository03:09
GAN800lcuk, might be worth adding build number to your versioning for package changes.03:10
woglindeah right03:11
woglindeif you change in code03:11
woglindeupdate the rev there03:11
woglindeif you change the packaging stuff03:11
woglindeadd -x03:11
woglindeonly in changelog03:12
lcuki have automatic build number incrementing03:13
lcuk21:08:21 Welcome to liqbase ver 0.0.8 build 2492 date 20081018 19293303:14
lcuki get things like that in the logs03:14
woglindeno thats onky on the builder03:15
lcukill just inc by 1 in the main package when i make a new one03:15
GeneralAntillesApplication manager says "0.1.1"03:15
GeneralAntillesAdd a hyphen and a build number on the end.03:16
lcukiyeah cos its not there yet03:16
lcukwhy didnt u lot tell me this before :P03:16
lcukim not uploadin another fluffin package03:17
GeneralAntillesWait until your next update03:18
GeneralAntillesIt'll make things easier for versioning.03:18
qolegoing outside for the  last of the daylight...03:18
lcukso the build number on the end isnt really important as long as its incrementing03:18
lcukalright qole, speak to you later or somethin03:19
lcukhave fun03:19
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lcukwhoa fuck03:21
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ds3is it just me or is diablo worse then chinook?03:25
GeneralAntillesIt's just you.03:25
ShadowJK_the browser seems less stable to me :-)03:26
ds3so far I have modest misbehaving twice in 24 hours; the old osso-mail was better then this; then there is the static addressing issue03:26
ShadowJK_and the watchdog is stabbing me more often.. :(03:26
ds3and it seems like a lot more packages fail to install but I can't blame that on diablo... that's progress03:27
GeneralAntillesThe browser is significantly faster and more stable for me, much better mail client, much better package manager, tap-to-hide info banners03:28
GeneralAntillesetc, etc, etc.03:28
* moontiger hates the email client03:28
GeneralAntillesShadowJK_, are you using stupid browser ad-ons?03:28
moontigerbut thats just me03:28
ds3in 24hours of usage, I wouldn't say the mail client is better... it just has a different set of bugs03:28
ShadowJK_GeneralAntilles, no I disabled flash and the media playing stuff03:28
GeneralAntillesModest has been very solid for me.03:29
GeneralAntillesI don't know why people are having trouble.03:29
moontigerstrokes for folks :)03:29
ShadowJK_oh and focus issues with the address bar :)03:29
GeneralAntillesmoontiger, no, more like "what's triggering these bugs".03:30
ds3problems so far - The client GUI has refused to open til I reboot the tablet; the inbox vanishing (account is shown but inbox is not there; client stuck forever 'retreiving'; the GUI just sitting there (slow? sorting?)03:30
GeneralAntillesds3, you are running 36-5, right?03:30
moontigerGeneralAntilles, oic ... i dont use it as it is unusable for me in terms of functionality and ui03:30
GeneralAntillesWhen you know what triggers bugs it's much easier to fix them.03:31
moontigerbut i see ur point ... we all have the same code in rom03:31
GeneralAntillesds3, did you install either of the SSU updates?03:31
ds3+ the OS updates automatically installed03:31
ds3only update not installed is the update for "Map" (not used)03:31
GeneralAntilleskillall modest in xterm should fix it if it stalls on you, though.03:32
ds3that's what I had to do to stop it after it got stuck in the "Retreiving..." state03:32
GeneralAntillesSupposedly at least one of the Modest crasher bugs is fixed in the week 38 build.03:33
ds3but the updater is suppose to be able to pull that in, right?03:34
ds3My theory is - they are cutting corner on QA'ing the packages and since i am using a less common config, I just get all tbe bugs03:34
ds3that's the only way I can explain the networking problem03:34
GeneralAntillesI don't think it's "cutting corners", they're just not very good at it.03:35
GeneralAntillesThey, apparently, don't test on N800s anymore.03:35
moontigerGeneralAntilles, i think modest is being used in extreme situations and was never really tested with those things03:35
GeneralAntillesIt's also a relatively young application.03:35
moontigeri mean people are saying "i have 196000 emails and when i use imap modest crashes"03:35
moontigeri mean really ... 196000 emails in one folder??!!03:36
moontigerits a freaking tablet for god sake03:36
GeneralAntillesThere's a conflict between people wanting to use it for 30GB inboxes and 17 accounts when it was designed to run on devices with hardware equivalent to desktops from 7-8 years ago.03:36
ds3GeneralAntilles: You are right about the browser being a bit better in diablo though... the 15-30 second rendering stuff seems to be gone03:36
moontigerright ... i have 3 accounts but only keep 200 - 500 emails on my tablet03:37
ds3I just need to run it longer to see if the battery drain issues are still there03:37
ShadowJK_I think I have about 50000 emails, but not all in one folder..03:37
moontigerif i had that many emails i would totally use folders to organise03:37
ds3it should crash with that much mail... taking forever or refusing to retrieve would be a more appropriate behavior03:38
ShadowJK_I haven't thought of a clever way to automatically sort a subset for viewing through tablet or cellphone..03:38
moontigerShadowJK_, yah on my cellphone i am very careful03:38
moontigeri find that gmail with the "recent"..." thing and limit to the last 3 days email works for me on my fone03:38
ShadowJK_but you know, with imap I wouldn't want the client to load all the emails anyway...03:39
ds3having these tablets do as well as the crummy mail client that ships with the Palm Treo 650 is not unreasonable03:39
moontigerds3, again i would say modest is a very young app ... claws copes much better imho03:39
ds3moontiger: what's the linage of modest? is it a direct descendant of osso-mail?03:40
moontigerno ... afaik it is based on tiny-mail backend03:40
moontigerwith a custom front end03:40
moontigerright GeneralAntilles ?03:40
moontigerthnx :)03:41
GeneralAntillestinymail is based on Camel03:41
moontigerah ok03:41
GeneralAntillestinymail is Modest's backend03:41
ds3what's osso-mail based on?03:41
moontigerhorse crap?03:41
lcukshould i promote it? or wait a few days03:42
GeneralAntillesIt's Nokia's crappy proprietary client.03:42
GeneralAntilleslcuk, wait.03:42
GeneralAntillesI with djcb had actually given me material for that article.03:42
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GeneralAntillesIt's not very heartening that most of the development team seems to have moved on from the project after it shipped03:43
GeneralAntillesespecially while it's still in such a beta state. :\03:43
ds3it has improved from the beta version; the beta didn't work at all for me (POP3S setup)03:43
ds3okay back to finding where all the old utilies are...03:43
* moontiger would love to have time to write a new email client03:44
ds3before I dig through all the old ITT postings, anyone know what is the name of that status bar applet that displays load, memory usage, and can have a clock overlayed on there?03:44
GeneralAntillesPatch Modest!03:44
ds3think it also provides a way of launching command line stuff03:45
lcukloadapplet or something03:45
ds3there were two related ones listed in the repos03:45
ds3Yes, that's it. Thanks03:46
moontigerGeneralAntilles, i would love to but imo the ui is a complete mess03:49
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ds3one more item to find... nokia used to have a beta package to add "native" support for AIM.. is that still available for diablo? I notice it has SIP support built in now03:50
moontigeris the current source available?03:50
GeneralAntillesOf course!03:50
GeneralAntillesThey have a Garage project and everything.03:50
GeneralAntillesds3, rtcomm beta.03:51
GeneralAntillesIt's moving (slowly) to Extras-devel.03:51
moontigerok when i finish the phonehome thing i'll have a look03:51
ds3GA: thanks again. Having the name makes looking for updates so much easier03:51
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* GeneralAntilles wonders who broke iTab.04:26
GeneralAntillesThe guy's been fed the directions to flash his tablet in a dozen different threads on at least 3 forums and he still can't figure it out.04:27
ds3is there something else that needs to be installed in addition to account-haze? accounts shows AIM as an option but creating an account fails; it never creates anything on the list04:27
ds3what repo is that in?04:29
GeneralAntillesThe Collabora repo04:30
GeneralAntillesIt'll probably be listed on
ds3I have that repo added but no telepathy-plugin-haze04:31
ds3account-plugin-haze is the exact name I have installed04:31
GeneralAntillesAnything telepathy-haze-something?04:31
GeneralAntillesHow about telepathy-haze?04:32
ds3nope. just telephaty-idle and telepathy-salut04:32
GeneralAntillesIs telepathy-haze already installed?04:32
ds3nopr, checked that... unless I need redpill mode for this?04:33
GeneralAntillesapt-get is better than Red Pill, anyway.04:33
ds3let see what manual browsing of the repo turns up04:34
ds3it shows it but not in the app mgr04:35
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ds3it shows it in red pill mode :/04:38
GeneralAntillesRed Pill is bad04:38
GeneralAntillesapt-get install telepathy-haze instead.04:38
GeneralAntillesCould be conflicting with the package in Extras-devel.04:38
GeneralAntillesThey're kind of in a state of transition right now04:39
GeneralAntillesfor some reason it's taking a really long time to get all of the packages into Extras-devel.04:39
lcukgnite GeneralAntilles, ds3, rest of chan04:39
GeneralAntillesDon't let the bed bugs bite.04:39
lcukgan, thanks for earlier, i broke your html though :$ so reverted04:39
ds3nite lcuk04:39
* lcuk is a htmlrapist :(04:40
lcukbut liqbase is in extras-devel \o/04:40
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moontigernite lcuk04:46
* moontiger goes off to kill aliens04:47
moontigerbye all04:47
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t_s_ohmm, i just noticed that maemo seems to put the focus wrong when one have multiple windows of the same type open and wants to switch between them. the focus is allways on the top most, even if thats not the window your currently looking at...05:17
GeneralAntillesWhat application?05:18
t_s_oi noticed it with browser, by it may be a general issue05:20
t_s_oright now i have 3 different browser window open, and the focus indicator is alway at the top most of the 3 when i open the small menu by tapping the browser window "button" on the left side05:21
t_s_oas in, you cant use that indicator to tell what window you where looking at last, and i have found myself using the corner window list instead as there the focus follows the open window05:23
t_s_oif i dont, i may end up opening the same window over and over while trying to jump to a different one of the same type05:23
ds3might crummy code from the brower's ancestry as FF/Mozilla does not always behave right in a point to focus environment05:27
t_s_owell its not internal to the browser itself, but window swapping. i just noticed it on the browser as its the one i mostly have more then one window of open at the same time...05:29
ds3the FF/Mozilla stuff has all sorts of stuff to grab focus at when it should so...05:30
t_s_ook, let me try to explain again as i see it was a mess earlier05:31
t_s_owhen one open more then one window of the same app, the icon on the left side gets a small number in the corner, and when the icon is tapped a menu appears. the focus indicator on that menu will not follow what window you had open last, but instead be on the top of the list, allways05:32
t_s_othis is independent of the workload of the different app windows, as i currently have 3 browser windows open showing 3 different local text files, something that should not trigger a focus steal at all05:33
GeneralAntillesProbably more of a UI spec bug than a real code bug.05:33
GeneralAntillesGo file a bug, anyway.05:33
t_s_owill do05:33
GeneralAntillesAt the very least, the behavior is confusing.05:34
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peteblackhey, anyone know where to find a good runlevel editor like sysv-rc-conf?05:36
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Macerldap = fail06:50
johnxheh, I was there once too.06:51
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johnxI remember thinking "And this is the *lightweight* DAP?"06:51
Maceri gave up on it06:51
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Macerthen again.. i couldn't get nis working either06:51
Macerso i guess i just fail in general06:51
johnxNIS is easier, but old and crufty06:52
Macernow nis... that should have just worked06:52
Maceri know06:52
Macerthen i tried kerberos06:52
Maceryes.. fail again06:52
johnxwhat are you trying to do?06:52
Macermake an auth server06:52
Macerso i can add users to just 1 machine06:52
johnxfor work? home network?06:52
Macerand the rest auth from it06:52
Macerwas going to use my n800 w/deblet as my httpd :-D06:53
Macer(just kidding)06:53
Maceralthough it probably would make for a good dns06:53
johnxheh...I ran an inet accessible wiki on my zaurus for a while06:53
Macerbut yeah... I = fail for all the methods i tried06:54
Maceri fucked up one box with nis so bad i had to re-install fbsd on it :)06:54
Macerdon't ask me how but root seemed to have disappeared when i added the +:*::::: stuff to the passwd/grp files06:54
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Macerand i couldn't even get the client to auth off of the server06:55
Macerhow lame06:55
Macerand kerberos... i simply don't understand the concept of how it is supposed to be an auth server06:55
Macerit seems like encryption encapsulation for other services06:55
Macerbut ldap is a joke.. there is no fucking way that was meant to be easy.. i think it was designed with IT job security in mind06:56
Macerlike ... why are all the auth servers so old? nis ... ldap... and kerberos are dusty.. why hasn't anybody made something newer that runs a simple static daemon for such things?06:57
Maceri mean.. cmon.. ldap came from x.500... which was used for phone services in the 80s :)06:57
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Macerok ... that's my rant for the day.. i have to get back to fixing this fbsd box06:58
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johnxMacer, maybe you want Windows Domain Service (or whatever the hell they call it these days)07:14
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qwerty12lcuk: So you're telling me that the Northerner message actually got put in the source package and was uploaded to extras?08:27
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lcukqwerty12, yesh08:48
qwerty12shit, I thought you removed that? :P08:48
* qwerty12 grins widely at people accepting northerns are dodgy08:49
RST38hAnd ehlo to you all, too08:49
qwerty12hi RST38h08:49
johnxm00f RST38h08:49
johnxRST38h, heh...I can actually explain the elevator thing if you don't know :)08:50
RST38hjohnx: I do know, but they skipped 3 (three) floors because of that!08:50
lcuki did08:50
qwerty12It was you who left preinst.qwerty12 there :P08:52
johnxRST38h, they're either just misnumbered or "service/storage" floors :P08:52
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lcukyes and thats still there08:53
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RST38hjohnx: nah, it appears that 14 also does not sound very nice in Chinese08:53
* GAN800 needs to get qwerty12 svn access to more places. :P08:53
RST38hjohnx: and 13 is a problem with those they call them?... white caucasians! =)08:53
qwerty12Heh, I suck at svn anyway :P. I did some dodgy import for dannym with 3g modem08:54
lcukqwerty12, woglinde got me over the hump, but in doing so reconfigured the existing preinst stuff (which existed for some reason when he grabbed from svn)08:54
lcukand postinst..08:55
qwerty12The preinst was the best08:55
lcukanyway, its gone now08:55
qwerty12there was a prerm, but that was harmless08:55
lcukextras-devel contains 0.1.308:55
lcukthe prerm wasnt harmless08:55
lcukit wanted to delete stuff08:55
qwerty12But it asked :P08:55
lcukin a EULA box08:55
lcukits done anyway and gone08:56
qwerty12Those boxes are actually used for messages as well. I put them in as examples if you wanted to use them08:56
lcukive now uploaded to extras so often now i can do it with my eyes shut08:56
qwerty12uploading to chinook sucks08:57
lcukqwerty12, not your fault at all, as ive said in the past you managed to get me a baseline deb08:57
qwerty12Heh :), I should have done better. I failed you master!08:57
qwerty12eww, I'm tempted to try out an linux-omap kernel with the opensource wireless driver just to see if it gets my torrent speeds higher than 10 Kb/s08:58
GAN800That'll be interesting08:59
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RST38hthat's weird...I get higher torrent speeds08:59
GAN800So do I09:00
johnxqwerty12, you sure the problem isn't router-side?09:00
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qwerty12johnx: yep, ports are open and everything09:00
qwerty12It could be a shit torrent09:00
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johnxqwerty12, err...but QoS or full NAT table or similar. Also, how many concurrent connections are you allowing on the tablet?09:01
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RST38hBTW, would anyone be willing to port LinuxDC++ to the tablet?09:01
qwerty12johnx: I know QoS is disabled on the router (via checking with its funky telnet interface) and Transmission is set to 50 peers per torrent. I've also got some sysctl.conf changes on here too.09:02
RST38hI know this thing is not as popular as torrents, but the client looks nice (and, more importantly, DC++ is used in our community network)09:02
qwerty12RST38h: Someone's compiled a command line DC++ client09:02
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RST38hqwerty: isn't much useful for searching etc., especially with n810 keyboard :(09:03
qwerty12I used to use DC++ time ago until the hub op's went overboard with how much you have to share09:03
qwerty12ah :(09:03
* RST38h kind of hopes to make movie watching tablet-only experience =)09:04
RST38hclick on the movie -> wait -> watch -> discard09:04
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* lcuk was a regular dc user (original client)09:04
qwerty12the original client sucked09:04
RST38hthe original .NET client still sucks09:04
lcukwasnt the client, it was the scene - obviously the hubs you connect to mattered09:05
* lcuk hasnt spoken to a load of mates in ages now09:05
RST38hYea, but this part is no problem here: most guys inside do not mind leechers :)09:06
RST38hIt is 100Mbd inside the network, after all09:06
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lcukemma has been bouncing in and out for hours now09:06
qwerty12I think I used it a few times for some old ass dreamcast games09:06
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lcukemma has been bouncing in and out for hours now09:07
RST38hbouncy dead emma09:07
* RST38h wonders if she is any relative of Eliza09:07
RST38hDumbest comment ever: .text #enables text input / output, kind of like String.h in C++09:10
lcukgnite again09:11
qwerty12see ya lcuk09:12
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RST38hbye, lcuk09:14
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qwerty12RST38h: Did a straight compile, segfaults when entering nick :P09:52
fiekiais there a games initiative for n8x0?09:53
* Stskeeps yawns09:53
RST38hqwerty: Ehh...09:54
RST38hqwerty: But definitely thanks =)09:54
RST38hwhat games initiative?09:54
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qwerty12woot, /dev/sda5              34G   32G  253M 100% /09:54
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RST38hThe End09:58
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* RST38h seems to have tamed the MIPS11:06
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Stskeepsqwerty12: bored? could you do me a favour and see if bootmenu svn builds in scratchbox with dpkg-buildpackage?12:23
Stskeeps(the one on garage)12:23
qwerty12I know.12:23
Stskeepsi think you'd actually do a better job at being a buildbot than extras builder ;>12:24
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qwerty12Builds fine12:25
Stskeepsthen i'll post on bootmenu list asking fanoush what his opinion would be on moving it to extras12:25
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* qwerty12 debates about putting rott in there. It works fine, just that using touchscreen is a little weird12:31
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Stskeepsqwerty12: ta, wheels starting to move regarding bootmenu then :P12:34
qwerty12cool :)12:34
johnxStskeeps, have you tried to build many hildonized apps against upstream gtk?12:35
Stskeepsjohnx: not that many, but the usual suspect is stuff like hildon_im_12:35
johnxgot osso_application_set_exit_cb :/12:36
Stskeepsjohnx: btw beware, i took out u-m packages from repo (i have them in a directory still though)12:36
Stskeepsisn't that a -losso?12:36
Stskeepsjohnx: because i can easily make a nit-env-hildon with debian packages, which i think we should bases on instead12:36
johnxI'm building on OE right now cause it's faster12:37
Stskeepsas we have a little closer cooperation with pkg-maemo and u-m just seems.. broken atm12:37
Stskeepsosso_application_set_exit_cb is deprecated12:37
johnxah, and I'm on new versions of hildon :/12:38
johnxgah...maybe your chroot-maemo idea is a better direction12:39
Stskeepsso far i haven't managed to get it going though12:39
johnxor the LD_LIBRARY_PATH12:39
Stskeepsi'd incline towards LD_LIBRARY_PATH but i have no clue how to make it work without nasty deb packaging hacks12:40
johnxI might look at it later...I really wanted this more universal/source-based to help the 770/zaurus guys without vfp12:40
StskeepsLD_LIBRARY_PATH would make it more source based though12:40
johnxa little bit, the we could just recompile the app without -mvfp12:41
infobotjohnx meant: a little bit, then we could just recompile the app without -mvfp12:41
Stskeeps*nod* but would probably also need a CFLAGS=-I/usr/include/maemo-gtk or something12:42
johnxthat's easy enough to add though12:43
Stskeepsi wonder if we just need to put maemo gtk libs and includes in a different dir and just do -L/usr/lib/otherdir really12:44
Stskeepsin LDFLAGS12:44
Stskeepsso a custom maemo gtk package12:44
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setuid0hello, has anyone here already compiled and flashed a home-made kernel to their nokia tablet?13:18
qwerty12lots of people :)13:19
* qwerty12 included13:19
setuid0good :-)13:19
setuid0before i go, i wanted to make sure about the precautionary steps in case the device doesn't even start. how would I then go about restoring a nokia-certified kernel?13:20
qwerty12Oh, the linux flasher can reflash a kernel without reflashing the entire device. Actually getting the nokia kernel image is a little tricky...13:20
qwerty12I'll get it for you, wait a min13:20
qwerty12What version is your tablet?13:21
setuid0is the so-called "feature upgrade" package not a full kernel?13:21
qwerty12It comes with an kernel upgrade13:21
qwerty12what version is your tablet?13:22
setuid0N810 OS2008 4.2008.36-513:22
qwerty12K, thanks13:22
setuid0but my concern is than I couldn't even install that package if the device doesn't boot anymore. i'de have to have a working flashable kernel13:23
qwerty12Here's the original kernel :
qwerty12You can extract it with dpkg -x on the computer and flash the zImage via usb13:24
setuid0thanks a lot!13:25
setuid0is this the latest "feature upgrade" kernel?13:25
qwerty12Yep :)13:25
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setuid0should i have any concern about the different versions of the kernel modules (nokia kernel vs. own kernel)?13:26
qwerty12Nope, tablet boots fine with nokia modules and any modules you make should insmod on a nokia kernel. (I once ran a preempt kernel and I had to trick the versioning on the kernel to get it to accept nokia modules but after that, they insmodded fine.)13:27
setuid0so you mean the flashing will not destroy any modules (which reside under /lib?) in the modules directory. but it will not add mine either: i'll have to copy them myself to the very same directory. Is that it?13:29
qwerty12yep. Though some libs reside in /mnt/initfs which you will have to remount read-write if you want to replace any there.13:30
qwerty12Though I've never replaced the modules, except for one time I was using the preempt kernel13:30
setuid0nope, i'm not thinking about replacing any existing module, justing adding some capabilities to my kernel13:31
setuid0possibly in the form of modules13:31
setuid0that sounds pretty straightforward13:32
qwerty12If all you are doing is just adding modules, the kernel doesn't even need to be flashed with a new one. You'll have to insmod them yourself manually or write an init script to do it for  you13:32
setuid0no, i need to change the kernel conf to make these modules compile, that's for sure13:33
qwerty12ah, ok13:33
setuid0or build the thing inside the kernel, monolithically13:33
setuid0that really sounds great13:34
setuid0i don't even need to backup my files either in system memory or on the mmc13:34
setuid0just as on anydesktop machine13:35
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qwerty12shouldn't do. flashing a kernel doesn't erase any files. Unless the kernel is dodgy and mutilates every file it comes in contact with :)13:36
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setuid0many thanks for this: good, structured info about these low-level things is hard to come by on the net13:37
qwerty12No problems :). I assume you have read the maemo kernel guide?13:38
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setuid0i actually already have configured my kernel with config_n800 and have made the necessary modifications to .config. i was just terrified at the idea of screwing up this wonderful little machine by forgetting something or typing the wrong flasher command13:40
lcukmornin again \o13:42
woglindehi lcuk13:42
lcukhiya woglinde :D 0.1.3 did the trick13:42
woglindelcuk hehe is in extra-devel now?13:43
lcukwell it was lastnight, they mightv rejected it since13:44
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qwerty12~bitchslap gtk-gnutella's spam_sha1.txt13:47
* infobot beats the sh*t out of gtk-gnutella's spam_sha1.txt13:47
* lcuk can now finally draw his own avatar13:47
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qwerty12lcuk: you should make an .install file for liqbase and place a link to it where it says it's in extras-devel :)13:48
lcuki thought .install files to extras-devel was wrong13:48
lcukbecause normal users shouldnt add -devel by  default13:49
qwerty12I'm not talking about the maemo catalogue13:49
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lcukonce it gets into extras it will be fine13:49
lcukim just happy ive finally got image export working :)13:50
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lcuktheres a backlog of things i want to do which needed that functionality :)13:50
qwerty12I'm not so happy about that because you binded it to a button us N800 users don't have ;)13:50
lcukthats cos its just a test13:51
lcuki'll find a nice way to do it13:51
qwerty12cool, thanks :)13:51
lcukperhaps with a movable overlay tile "enable snapshot mode" which shows over the top of every screen with a take photo button13:52
lcukwhen pressed it vanishes and takes the picture :)13:52
lcukbut thats secondary to real usage13:53
lcuki needed a way to get camera images out13:53
woglindelcuk hehe13:53
lcukand to save sketches in a usable format13:53
woglindeI thought this is solved13:53
woglindeand you only need to took the code and run away13:53
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lcukwoglinde, the entire interface is YUV, i havent been able to take anything for granted - its all pretty much from scratch :) which has suited me because ive not been bogged down with legacy13:54
woglindethe hw keyboard on the n810 is slow13:55
woglindejust testing it now13:55
macoute_so hard to write-slow?13:56
woglindeI have to wait 2 seconds13:56
macoute_how can keyboard be slow13:56
woglindeif a charackter is shown13:56
macoute_hmm, mine isnt13:56
woglindemacout in libqbase13:56
macoute_maybe its your network connection13:56
macoute_ah, ok13:56
lcukmmmm that doesnt sound right13:56
woglindelcuk why is it so slow?13:57
lcukyou on the name keyboard screen13:57
lcukits live for me here13:57
lcukeven at 800*480_powersave..13:58
lcukno delay13:58
lcukthough on n2 i have glitches reproduction13:58
lcukperhaps you have something else running in background13:59
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woglindehm liqbase runs with nearly 100% cpu14:00
woglindeseems you have to learn the nice way of profiling14:01
lcukit depends on what you are doing14:01
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lcukif its an active screen it runs as fast as required, if you are on a static screen it does nothing14:02
woglindehm strange14:02
woglindenow it is not14:02
lcukie when sitting on a menu it falls back to baseline14:02
lcukbut if you are showing starfield its way up (for obvious reasons)14:02
woglindehm even the name screen has 80%14:03
* lcuk worked extremely hard to try to ensure it didnt drain battery14:03
woglindethat seems wrong14:03
woglindexorg is going up to 20%14:03
woglindemaybee you are polling to much14:03
lcuklemme check the keyboard screen - it might actually be left in runfast14:04
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woglindehm I will have a quick look into the source14:04
lcukit was a brand new one14:04
lcukgo onto a normal menu and it should be idle14:04
* lcuk was against adding a keyboard at all ;)14:05
lcukheh, yeah on the keyboard its busypolling14:07
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lcukits a 25fps keyboard ;)14:07
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lcukint rf=0;// 1;     woglinde noticed it was running fast14:14
lcukbut im not pushin a whole other version through to extras just for that :P its one screen viewed once normally14:16
woglindeno prob14:18
woglindebut fix it14:18
lcukfixed :)14:19
lcuknext build will include it14:20
woglindehm where was it?14:20
lcukthat line i posted14:20
woglindein liqkeyboard.c?14:20
lcukthe rf variable is shorthand for "runfast" if that is set to 1 then the handler will not idle for events and instead attempt to run fast14:21
lcukline 49914:21
lcukif you notice anything else likethat please let me know :)14:23
woglindeIf I have the time14:23
lcukwoglinde, i know that feeling14:26
lcuktime runs away with everything14:26
lcukwhat do i do now its in extras-devel, how does it get to real extras?14:27
woglindesorry do not kno14:27
qwerty12_N800the promoter14:28
lcukdidnt you and gan tell me to wait14:29
qwerty12_N800you asked how does it get there.14:29
qwerty12_N800i didn't say you should do it now.14:30
woglindehm qtnx and the othet nx stuff now runs nice14:30
lcukexcellent woglinde14:30
woglindethis rocks really on the n81014:30
woglindefull desktop14:31
lcukand now you know all about gettin it into extras ;)14:31
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woglindesuspend resums work nice too14:32
woglindefor the remote sessions14:33
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* qwerty12_N800 needs too clean out the interface of gtk-gnutella. *way* too cluttered on the tablet 14:35
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aquatixqwerty12_N800: doesn't that drain the battery really fast?14:42
aquatixusing torrent and gnutella?14:43
qwerty12_N800I'm always on charger anyway :p14:43
aquatixjust wondering14:44
qwerty12_N800it might do but tbh, a lot of things can drain the battery so i'm past caring :)14:44
lcukmmmmmmmmm cupcakes
lcukdamn wanted that link (same pic)14:46
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aquatixhmmmmm, cupcakes...14:48
* qwerty12_N800 only wants hash brownies14:49
lcukyou would14:50
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lcukwow emma, are you still bouncing in and out?14:50
lcukdoesnt it get tiring14:50
qwerty12_N800remember jones? :p14:51
qwerty12_N800man, that *was* annoying14:51
* lcuk has no shortterm memory14:52
lcuki must be gettin old14:52
qwerty12_N800the guy had a misconfigured irc client and it would keep reconnecting leaving a loong trail of join/part messages on screen14:52
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lcukgood job i didnt bring liqbase_bot into here14:53
macoute_this is the first and only channel where the use of /me and infobot is not strongly discouraged14:54
* qwerty12_N800 is glad14:55
* lcuk is confused14:55
* macoute_ sees no benefits of /me14:55
* aquatix likes to use /me14:55
emmalcuk: No.14:55
* qwerty12_N800 is the shit14:55
emmalcuk: I just woke up. I don't know why I was bouncing so much while I was sleeping.14:56
emmalcuk: This last restart was the only intentional one, to make sure I don't have two irssi processes competing.14:56
lcukheh, you didnt leave you nokia on your bed did you :D14:56
aquatixqwerty12_N800: true14:56
* qwerty12_N800 says :p14:56
lcukive been awake myself for a lot of the night and ive seen you with loads of join/parts14:57
aquatixqwerty12_N800: nah, that's talking about yourself in 3rd person, that's stupid ;)14:57
* qwerty12_N800 says is not!14:57
* aquatix says it is!14:57
*** lcuk is now known as me14:57
* qwerty12_N800 says is not!14:57
* me gets cofused14:57
* macoute_ starts using only me14:57
* me cant type14:57
* aquatix tries the new liqbase14:58
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*** Guest93545 is now known as lcuk14:58
* qwerty12_N800 still is using 0.0.914:58
lcukmmmm so i can impersonate someone for a few lines14:58
lcukaquatix, if you have an n810 can you test something for me14:58
lcukif not, it doesnt matter14:58
qwerty12_N800lcuk, btw, do you use the fullscreen key for anything in liqbase?14:59
* aquatix has an n81014:59
aquatixlcuk: please tell :)14:59
lcukabout 80% of the screens within liqbase now allow you to take a screenshot and save as .png, i have a list of which i know wont, but the main menus, keyboard, drawing and graffiti and book file selector should all work - could you check nad see if you can break it15:00
lcukif you press [Chr] on the keyboard it will take a screenshot (as now makes use of)15:00
aquatixhow do i screenshot?15:00
aquatixah :)15:01
lcukits been on my todo list for a while :) it was basically the only thing holding back from pushing15:01
aquatixwhere does it put the png's?15:02
lcuk~/.liqbase with a stamp15:02
lcuksomethin like that15:02
* aquatix takes a look15:02
aquatixi have a bunch of screenshots indeed15:03
* lcuk gets on with introductions and postcards15:03
lcukactually no i wont15:03
lcukits sunday15:03
qwerty12_N800~nickometer qwerty12_n80015:03
infobot'qwerty12_n800' is 76.000% lame, qwerty12_n80015:03
qwerty12_N800infobot, your mom15:04
infoboti guess your mom is spelt your mum15:04
lcukit adds to your lameness if you search yourself15:04
qwerty12_N800i needed confirmation :p15:04
macoute_and away-nicks and nicks comparable to that should add your lameness by at least 40% :)15:04
macoute_qwerty12_N800: no offence :)15:04
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qwerty12_N800hehe, none taken15:05
macoute_using_nodamn nicks :)15:05
*** macoute_using_no is now known as macoute15:05
* aquatix wonders how lame he is15:05
macoute~nickometere aquatix15:06
macoute~nickometer aquatix15:06
infobot'aquatix' is 0.000% lame, macoute15:06
macouteaquatix: that lame :)15:06
Stskeeps~nickometer Stskeeps15:06
infobot'Stskeeps' is 0.000% lame, stskeeps15:06
lcuk~nickometer lcuk15:06
infobot'lcuk' is 0.000% lame, lcuk15:06
* aquatix thought himself a lot more lame15:06
*** qwerty12_N800 is now known as ak-4715:07
lcukheh qwerty - its just you15:07
ak-47~nickometer ak-4715:07
infobot'ak-47' is 25.000% lame, ak-4715:07
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aquatixdoes it look at your current nick?15:07
aquatixi thought it was some reputation thing15:07
lcuk~nickometer qwerty1215:07
infobot'qwerty12' is 27.000% lame, lcuk15:07
aquatix~nickometer lcuk15:08
infobot'lcuk' is 0.000% lame, aquatix15:08
lcukif you add up all your lameness you are off the scale15:08
* lcuk is laughin heartily15:08
andre___ak-47 is still my email address15:08
*** qwerty12_N800 is now known as fcukinfobot15:08
lcukno it isnt15:08
fcukinfobot~nickometer fcukinfobot15:09
infobot'fcukinfobot' is 0.000% lame, fcukinfobot15:09
lcuki thought it was lamer@lamedomain.com15:09
aquatixhm, that's actually quite a nice address15:10
andre___pah. 12 years ago this wasn't as lame.15:10
lcukok, serious question.   every time i want to put my nokia in its pouch i lock the keyboard, i want to disconnect the wifi when i do this15:11
fcukinfobothmm, i could steal code and whip up something in python for that if you wish?15:11
lcukim thinking about doign the acmonitor type thing but gathering a whole state diagram and allowing profiles for different states15:11
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lcukie inuse:charging/battery   locked:charging/battery15:12
aquatixlcuk: so only disconnect wifi on locking and on battery15:12
lcukqwerty12_n800, it would have to be configurable though15:12
aquatixand in pouch?15:12
qwerty12_n800ah, k15:13
lcukwell the pouch part isnt important, its using the lock key15:13
aquatixlcuk: might even take the light sensor into account :)15:13
lcukno aquatix, my hand covers that all the time (infact, N1 has a sticker over it)15:13
qwerty12_n800you know it can be disabled?15:14
lcuki just realised that sticked is not visible15:14
lcukqwerty12_n800, really?15:14
qwerty12_n800yeah, just remove the als module from /etc/mce/mce.ini15:14
lcuki just put a happy smily face "well done" sticker from jakes collection15:14
lcukoh screw that, my patch survives reflashing15:14
lcukand lets me tell my nokias apart15:14
* aquatix actually likes the screen dimming15:15
aquatixlcuk: :)15:15
lcukim left handed and when drawing if ytou see on the videos my hand sits at top left15:15
woglinde hm15:15
aquatixyeah, when i hold it, i accidentially cover it too15:15
lcukand it goes dim a few seconds later15:16
woglindeI really wonder a lot of open source programmer are lefthanded15:16
lcukits annoying as feck15:16
woglindeand often the better one15:16
lcukwell im not a good coder, simply prolific - i find it hard NOT to code or think about it15:16
woglindelcuk your code is not that bad as a first glance15:16
lcuki was thinking the other night about why only now have i decided to go public with my code15:17
lcukand i realised the world just wasnt ready for the awesomeness of visual basic15:17
qwerty12_n800*sigh* once a windows programmer, always a windows programmer... :p15:18
aquatixlcuk: that's a big oxymoron ;)15:18
lcuknot really aquatix :) everything ive now got in liqbase was born in visual basic first :)15:18
lcukthe language is not important, but you can bet your ass i had to work hard to make it run fast15:19
woglindelcuk to make it public is okay so other can look at it15:19
woglindeand give some clues15:19
lcuknow yes, then i felt ashemed of my code15:20
aquatixlcuk: myeah, i thought the language was pretty confusing actually; not a clear syntactical difference between function calls and arrays and lots more of little gripes i had with it15:20
aquatixoh well :)15:20
lcukbecause the small modules i wrote were never whole units, they were small elements - in liqbase i have brought them together as i always planned15:20
aquatixlcuk: but liqbase is awesome :)15:20
aquatixlcuk: and it seems screenshotting in mentioned screens works15:21
lcukaquatix, :) all i have wanted for years was a touchscreen15:21
lcukjust check the bookreader file select - i noticed a bug last night15:21
lcukive lost my memory stick15:22
aquatixhm, i have a screenshot of it here15:22
lcukshould i put back the upload function ;)15:23
lcukwho hwho has windows?15:25
lcuk-the stutter15:25
macoutei does atm15:25
macoutei do, atm that is :)15:25
macoutea vista even15:25
* qwerty12_n800 is a good boy. i at least have ubuntu with my vista :p15:25
lcukjust as a random test, could you see if this tiny app works?15:25
aquatixlcuk: you want the screenshot of my book selection?15:26
lcukyeah please aquatix15:26
aquatixhang on15:26
lcukthat rectdraw program handles collisions how i want to end up with on physics view15:27
lcuki still havent quite got the code right15:27
* lcuk will have to get one of these touchscreen eee pcs for home15:29
lcukcombining awesomeness on the run with awesomness in the house will be awesome15:29
macoutelcuk: it does work15:29
lcukexcellent thanks15:29
macoutethough the speed is too much :)15:29
lcukmustv just been me15:29
lcukheh well ;)15:29
lcuki coded it first back in 200015:30
aquatixlcuk: mail15:30
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lcuk:O does that look like it looks on screen to you?15:30
aquatixlcuk: yes15:30
lcukwith green backgrounds on the books?15:30
aquatixer, no15:31
aquatixit has black bg in real life15:31
lcukthen the bug is real and reproduced :)15:31
lcukill fix it later15:31
aquatixsure thing15:31
woglindelcuk hm yes bookreader the text do not fit in the boxes15:31
woglindefor open and back15:32
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lcukopen and back?  which screen15:32
lcukthough im not changing that now woglinde the small buttons which contain text will be replaced with glyphs as i get round to it15:33
* lcuk says that every day15:33
lcukperhaps i should do somethin about it now15:33
lcukbut its sunday15:33
lcukalso noted: im putting the version number on the main startup15:34
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* RST38h thanks the Green One for helping him to conquer MIPS15:37
macoutebtw. who broke widset for
macoutewho even made it...15:39
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woglindebye for now15:40
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lcukwho knoews what some EMEA conference is?15:41
Mekeurope, middle east and africa15:42
RST38hThe only thing left is to figure out what makes it crash on return from the functi15:42
RST38hEMEA - europe, middle east, africa15:42
lcukon here
lcukit says if submitted by nov 21st "eligable to participate in a big nokia event in EMEA in December" but i cant find any more info on this15:44
RST38hlcuk: So, according to this image, is Russia EMEA or whatever China belongs to?15:44
lcuki dunno, the map has a bit over eastern europe doesnt it15:45
lcukit overlaps15:45
RST38hlcuk: Going to submit liqubase? ;)15:46
lcukdid yesterday :)15:48
* RST38h crosses fingers wishing lcuk luck15:48
lcuk:) thx15:49
lcuktracy just found out its in rome15:49
RST38hRome is good, especially in winter15:50
RST38h+8oC, sunny15:50
lcukanywhere is better than manchester in winter15:50
RST38hlcuk: Oh, you just haven't been to places ;)15:50
RST38hAlthough Manchester should probably be pretty dismal too15:51
qwerty12_N800The North of the UK is dismal as a whole.15:52
lcukno its not :)15:53
qwerty12_N800hehe :p15:53
qwerty12_N800does get cold easily though :\15:53
lcukwe have sweaters :) and long johns15:54
* lcuk giggles15:54
qwerty12_N800gee, all we have down here is vests + boxers :p15:54
RST38hsomehow, the latter should be a disadvantage in cold winter, right?15:54
RST38hbtw, what our kid has for winter can best be described as a space suit, so do be careful when you say "cold" =)15:56
lcukhow old is he15:57
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feiifashello, is it possible to play smooth native 800x480 video on n810?15:59
lcukits possible to update the screen fast enough15:59
lcukbut its gonna be hard to find a codec to decode and include audio as well15:59
feiifasthat's shame :(16:00
lcuk   not really, most videos arent that res anyway16:00
feiifas800x480 resolution for videos would be perfect16:00
lcuklook at that page :)16:00
lcukit shows what CAN be done at that resolution :)16:01
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feiifasthat looks awesome16:02
feiifasvery nice16:02
RST38hlcuk: 7, its he16:03
lcukmy jake is 6 and we have enough trouble gettin a coat on him (apart from doing superman impressions)16:03
RST38hand "she" is 9 months old now16:03
feiifasis there any "screen candy" addons for nokia tablets already? iphonish effects and so on16:03
lcukfeiifas, what better screen candy than what you draw yourself :)16:04
RST38hlcuk: well, it takes a while for him to get dressed but mostly because he cant keep on doing it16:04
aquatixfeiifas: try canola216:05
lcukyeah, i bet it looks funny near the school, do most dress the same16:05
aquatixreally nice media player16:05
aquatixwith nice effects16:05
aquatixfeiifas: and liqbase of course ;)16:05
RST38hlcuk: not any more as the colors are different16:06
RST38hlcuk: back when I was a kid everybody looked the same16:06
lcukRST38h, ? multicolored lego space men?16:06
RST38hlcuk: more or less16:07
lcuk:D heh16:07
lcukright, time for me to vanish for a while16:08
RST38hsame here16:08
* lcuk still cant decide whether to code or not16:08
aquatixhmmmm, lego16:08
aquatixlcuk: cya16:08
lcuksomeone told me i can do a select() statement and wait for multiple events from files and sockets and events16:09
aquatixoh, thought you where leaving :)16:09
lcukany idea how i might go about doing this16:09
lcuklol i was16:09
lcukjust mentioning code made it pop into head16:09
aquatixyou codeaholic ;)16:09
lcukyeah :)16:09
aquatixwell, maybe in some event loop?16:10
lcuki might sync my 2 nokias16:10
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lcukget a combined 800*960 display or somethin16:10
lcukheh, nintendo ds :D16:11
lcukright ill go and ponder it while i make a brew16:11
lcukback later16:11
aquatixlcuk: heh, right after you said that, i ran across
aquatixnot the same, but still a nice pic :)16:14
aquatixanybody ported speedcrunch calculator or similar to maemo yet?16:19
aquatixah, speedcrunch is qt16:20
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zakkmHi, I am about to buy the Nokia N800 used off someone. I was wondering what i should look for besides of course it turns on.16:55
aquatixno scratches on the screen16:56
aquatixno cracks of course ;)16:56
zakkmyeah i meant besides physical16:57
zakkmsshould i test wifi works? cause some dont?16:57
aquatixsounds sane indeed16:57
zakkmshould i run a few apps to make sure it doesnt suffer from crashes?16:58
qwerty12_N800check the camera, both memory card slots + covers16:58
zakkmthough im going to reflash16:58
zakkmso i should bring a sd card.16:58
zakkmwhat covers?16:58
qwerty12_N800yeah, the covers to close the memory card slots16:59
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zakkmso scratches, cracks, it looks okay from looking at it, camera, memory card slots, covers ?17:00
lcukzakkm, check the camera pops out cleanly, and if you get a chance to use it beforehand, go into a drawing program and check the screen responds to stylus evenly17:04
zakkmthe guy said i can test it.17:04
lcukthen i dont think you have anything to worry about17:04
zakkmIm meeting him in about 2 hours.17:04
zakkmis there some cases of 800's with wifi not working?17:05
lcukobviously if he was nervous about its condition it would be sale quick with no test17:05
zakkmThey might be a open hotspot17:05
aquatixrun liqbase on it17:05
aquatixif it doesn't melt, it's ok ;)17:05
zakkmevantually yeah app looked sick17:05
zakkmbut i dont think i can test that long. I would have to add repo .. etc.17:05
lcukfeels better to use :)17:05
* lcuk has just been drawing trains with jake again17:05
aquatixlcuk: :)17:06
aquatixzakkm: actually, liqbase is in extras now :)17:06
lcukno repos - simplest is jump to and grab the deb17:06
lcuktheres no deps other than whats on the tablet by default17:06
zakkmhow am i suppose to do that ? ;p17:06
aquatixbut anyways, that was more of a joke :)17:06
zakkmi dont think ill be able to test forever lol ;p17:06
zakkmlcuk: thats good :P17:07
aquatixthere already is a drawing app on it, so rather use that to test17:07
zakkmno insane extra deps17:07
lcukzakkm, i prefer to use what ive got to hand than go searching out strange things :)17:07
lcukobscure complicated libraries make for obscure complicated bugs17:08
zakkmwas talking about dependencies17:08
lcukso was i :)17:08
zakkmnah i meant you were.. im thinking what you talking about???17:09
derflcuk: There's something to be said for well defined, well tested libraries, however.17:09
zakkmderf: if it was good .. it would be default already in most likely.. ;p17:09
lcuk100% agree derf, but i dont know enough about each of them to use them effectively enough17:09
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derfzakkm: On a standard Linux distro, yes. On a space-constrained tablet, no, not really.17:10
zakkmi know im just saying :P17:10
zakkmpython and libpurple is probably the only ones id get.17:11
zakkmdang i have to find a SD card17:11
zakkmI told the guy i was an expert and it and he seemed to want to sell it to me more like i wouldnt back down at the last minute cause it doesnt have something i wanted.17:12
qwerty12_N800~lart diablo extras-devel for not having subversion17:13
* infobot calls diablo extras-devel on the phone ... the lights are on but nobody's home for not having subversion17:13
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zakkmwhy would it be included? do you really compile on the nokia?17:15
qwerty12_N800I don't but it's useful to get files from a svn repo being away from a computer :)17:16
qwerty12_N800I'll send it to the autobuilder later17:16
zakkmfor what purpose?17:16
zakkmwhy not just get the pc to do it as a cron script?17:16
zakkmevery night or something17:16
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qwerty12_N800My computer isn't always on. The reason i want svn now is to grab some python apps17:17
zakkmso make a cron script and run it whenever it is on :P17:18
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zakkmdesktop icon. :P though i guess that may make it a bash script.17:19
qwerty12_N800I'm not always in Linux :p17:19
qwerty12_N800vista/ubuntu dual-boot17:19
zakkmubuntu? eww17:19
zakkmmore bloated than vista ;p17:20
qwerty12_N800Lies! :p17:20
zakkmvista isnt bloated, it just has a whole bunch of stuff nobody wants.17:21
zakkmwhy not virtual machine ubuntu?17:22
zakkmyou have virtualization, dont you?17:22
qwerty12_N800yeah, vmware17:22
zakkmit should run at native speed17:22
qwerty12_N800but I hate using it17:22
zakkmso use qemu // virtualbox ?17:22
zakkmooo you like compiz? :P17:23
zakkmthough its really slow in ubuntu -.-17:23
qwerty12_N800i'm just averse to virtual machines in general, they're useful but awkward for me to use17:23
qwerty12_N800yep, compiz user :p17:23
zakkmyou use compiz.. or ubuntu's compiz ?17:23
qwerty12_N800ubuntu's compiz17:24
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zakkmits so slow17:24
zakkmand old17:24
zakkmtheres like no plugins -.-17:24
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qwerty12_N800oh, they're easy to get hold for ubuntu17:24
zakkmeven easier in suse -.-17:25
zakkmand gentoo17:25
zakkmgentoo is the easiest.. it doesnt ask you are you sure -.- if you dont want it to17:25
zakkmyeah theres -y or -f  .. but -.-17:26
qwerty12_N800compiling 24/7 doesn't tickle my fancy and it's a long time since i used a rpm based distro17:26
zakkmwhat do you mean 24/7 ?17:26
zakkmthats a myth17:26
zakkmand its well worth it -.- ubuntu is bloated as hell17:27
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zakkmmy geforce2 16mb .. went faster than my 256mb geforce 6200 in ubuntu -.-17:27
zakkmgeforce2 16mb in gentoo17:27
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zakkmno joke -.-17:27
zakkmand you dont compile 24/717:27
qwerty12_N800if i really want to compile with optimisations, then i just apt-get source17:28
zakkma simple alright 3000+ / 3ghz p4 .. can start off a nice gnome/kde4 desktop with everything your want .. blahblah.. in like 5 hours?17:28
zakkmthere already are built ones with optimizations -.-17:28
zakkmand thats not what gentoo is about17:28
zakkmits about only having what you need.. only services are what you wanttt17:29
zakkmno extra daemons or anything -.-17:29
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zakkmyou want gnome with fluxbox WM .. you dont need metacity -.-17:29
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zakkmsorry, im aganist ppl saying good things about ubuntu ;p17:31
qwerty12_N800hmm, i'm not really into linux desktop customisations. i only use compiz because it's automatically enabled when i install ati drivers17:31
derfUbuntu is made for end users. Gentoo is made for developers.17:31
qwerty12_N800hehe, i don't mind ubuntu but i don't have much experience with other distros17:31
zakkmderf: yes but clearly qwerty12_n800 is a developer, shouldn't be using ubuntu17:32
qwerty12_N800nah, end user :)17:32
derfPeople should use whatever is comfortable to them.17:32
zakkmwerent you the one complaining that subversion should be in something extras?17:32
derfUbuntu has a lot of issues, it's true. But a whole lot of people will find them less troublesome than Gentoo's issues.17:32
Veggenwhy not Ubuntu?17:32
Veggenderf: I don't see much issues with ubuntu, even for power-users.17:33
zakkmits slow17:33
derfVeggen: Thank you for proving my point.17:33
qwerty12_N800zakkm, true, but i'm more of a casual modder. i do simple stuff with code, that's about it :)17:33
Veggenzakka: uh? In what ways is it slow? This will be a function on how you set it up :)17:33
zakkmqwerty12_n800: i see your name all over forums about things you done/are doing17:34
infobotVeggen meant: zakkm: uh? In what ways is it slow? This will be a function on how you set it up :)17:34
derfThe nice thing about Gentoo is that I can compiling everything without omiting the frame pointer. I can keep it from stripping debug symbols. All of the headers for all of the libraries on my system are already installed.17:34
zakkmVeggen:  exactly, it needs changing.. it sucks :P17:34
zakkmportage is awesome :)17:34
thpzakkm: you could also argue that gentoo is slower than ubuntu, because before you can use apps, you have to compile them.. (arguing about distros is really pointless.. hehe)17:35
derfNone of that has anything to do with speed.17:35
derfthp: Honestly, you spend very little time compiling.17:35
zakkmwhat you do compile is done like at night or something17:35
zakkmwhen your not on17:35
zakkmand you put in low priority17:36
thpyep. but think energy costs. think compiling OOo..17:36
zakkmmost packages dont even get compiled17:36
derfOr, really, since most of the time you're just installing one or two packages, it takes an extra 30 seconds or so.17:36
zakkmyou dont compile oOo -.-17:36
zakkmtheres ooo-bin17:36
zakkmor openoffice-bin i think its called17:36
derfReally, I think it takes less time to install pacakges on Gentoo than on, say, Fedora.17:37
thpit's just a matter or preference.. the USE flags are surely a nice thing.. getting things that you don't get with all binary distros.. (but you can apt-get source in debian, too..)17:37
zakkmnever tried apt-source .. ;p17:37
derfWhich insists on updating its yum repository every time you so much as run a query, much less actually do something.17:37
thpbut saying gentoo is faster than ubuntu just because you can compile stuff the way you want is incorrect ;)17:38
* johnx tried gentoo, doesn't have the patience for it17:38
zakkmno i didnt say that17:38
zakkmi said its faster cause you dont have any bloat17:38
zakkmoh yes17:38
zakkmive read that17:38
zakkmgood article17:38
zakkmread it about a year ago17:38
qwerty12_N800lol :)17:39
zakkmi read alot before i use something.17:39
VeggenActually one of the very advantages I see with Linux - *any* Linux-distro - is that bloat doesn't slow it down as much as in Windows. You can have as many programs installed as you like, but as long as you run them it won't slow it down.17:39
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zakkmyeah i like that17:39
zakkmi used to put in fedora disc.. select everything to install lol17:39
Veggenof course this is also *sort* of true with windows, but observations seem to contradict it.17:40
zakkmbut it fills up your "applications" area17:40
zakkmMac FTW ( mac fanboy here )17:40
VeggenI've been a Linux-user since I got my first own machines mid-90s, was mostly Unix-user before that, and I prefer Ubuntu for desktop nowadays.17:40
VeggenBecause the ubuntu developers make a good effort to make sure things should just work. I can do it myself, but I'm more interested in having a good basis distro, not having to do too much with it before being productive with other things.17:42
johnx^what he said^17:42
johnxI do my hacking on embedded linux, my desktop is a tool to accomplish that goal17:42
Veggenand imho, Ubuntu doesn't hide the gory details as much as some others do.17:42
Veggenyou can always find them where they should be, below the wizards.17:43
Veggenbut having wizards and guis can also be good.17:43
derfThe problems with Ubuntu stem more from the fact that they are not behaving like good community members.17:43
zakkmWell .. uhh.. If i leave i guess the debate ends.. I have to get ready.. I'm suppose to meet the guy in just over a hour to buy the used n800.. ( $150 CAD ) so wish me luck :P ( taking bus, will take awhile )17:43
Veggenit shouldn't replace the good old config files, though.17:43
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derfThey look more like a distro from five, ten years ago than a modern one (in their behavior).17:43
Veggenderf: That, I can sort of agree with.17:44
qwerty12_N800zakkm, heh. *fingers crossed*17:44
Veggenderf: They should do more to feed changes upstream.17:44
zakkmif sale goes okay, ill be back on the nokia, xchat is good still right?17:44
derfRedhat, Debian, etc., all learned that this was really a good idea in the long run.17:44
derfUbuntu will learn, too, but it appears to be taking them a while.17:44
johnxzakkm, yup, it's in extras17:45
qwerty12_N800zakkm, yup, using xchat right now from an n80017:45
zakkmn800, really? how do you type so fast17:45
derfGentoos problems stem mostly from the fact that they make it very difficult for their community to contribute.17:45
aquatixexternal keyboard?17:45
qwerty12_N800zakkm, i'm pretty slow :p, i'm just using the stylus keyboard17:46
derfI mean, a whole lot of their users are competent developers.17:46
derfThey should be light-years ahead in getting current packages integrated and working, and they're not.17:46
derfIn fact, they've slowed down in this regard, and started dropping things out of the tree instead of adding them.17:47
derfAnd, unfortunately, as much as I like Gentoo, that's something I'm not sure they're going to be able to fix.17:47
derfAt least not without changes in leadership.17:48
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zakkmIs there a way to make sure SD works, without having SD ?17:50
zakkmi cant seem to find my sd card17:50
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zakkmAlso, is android usable on the n800 ?17:52
zakkmlike is it worth playing aroundon17:52
johnxthe version of android available is pretty out of date17:52
aquatixi don't think it's all that usable (yet?)17:52
johnxI'm waiting for google to release some source before looking at it again17:53
zakkm CYa guys!!17:54
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derfAndroid (from my rough, mostly uninformed opinion), seems more like an iPhone-wannabe than a maemo-wannabe.17:54
johnxyes, it's definitely a limited-privileges environment17:55
derfOr, in short, "Who cares?"17:55
johnxcool apps = interest from me17:55
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aquatixhm, nice article17:58
* aquatix reads17:58
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qwerty12"T-Mobile's 3G service is now live...A total of 28 markets is expected in 2008.". Being in Europe, that's a little bit of a shock to me :/.17:59
johnxqwerty12, they bought spectrum at auction from the US gov't but the military didn't vacate the spectrum until a year (more?) after t-mo bought it17:59
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* aquatix will get a non-branded android phone if he goes with that platform17:59
qwerty12johnx: I see :)18:00
aquatixso i can use it with my current sim and 3G subscription18:00
aquatixjohnx: but still :)18:00
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johnxaquatix, yeah, they're late to the game, but for the most part it's not their fault18:00
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RST38h"On Tuesday, the USPTO awarded Microsoft a patent for the Automatic Censorship of Audio Data for Broadcast, an invention that addresses 'producing censored speech that has been altered so that undesired words or phrases are either unintelligible or inaudible.'"18:44
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johnxI kinda hope this has a chilling effect on censorship :)18:46
RST38hgiven that they have patented beeps...18:46
RST38hbtw, whoever is in UK, does UK now require passports when purchasing *phones* or *sim cards*?18:47
RST38h(i.e. do they tie you to IMEI or IMSI?)18:47
qwerty12You need proof of who you are when you buy a phone on contract18:47
qwerty12a passport is accepted as proof18:47
johnxwhat about prepaid?18:48
qwerty12no passport is needed for simcards. hell, i got some for free recently straight from t-mobile over the internet18:48
qwerty12johnx: not for prepaid18:48
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RST38hso, SIM cards are not identifiable but phones are?18:51
RST38hsounds like opposite to .RU where they identify you by SIM card now18:52
qwerty12Only phones on contract, you don't need any forms of proof for prepaid phones18:52
qwerty12With contract phones, they don't want you doing a runner with the phone.18:52
RST38hthe news sites say UK wants to require ID when buying a phone18:52
ShadowJK_microb kinda sucks for downloading stuff, it seems to timeout downloads too18:52
RST38hah, the contract stuff is completely logical, yes18:52
RST38hShadow: It is not microb but the server18:53
ShadowJK_RST38h, I just tcpdump'd a download (I'm root on the server), and microb closed the connection18:53
RST38hI wonder about the "id when buying a phone" stuff though18:53
suihkulokkiqwerty12: i presume they used some way to ID you (credit card?)18:53
suihkulokkia prepaid without id is something that dissapeared when criminals started using them18:54
johnxpretty sure you can still by a prepaid with cash in the US18:54
ShadowJK_it also seems to delete the download file, so you can't resume..18:54
qwerty12suihkulokki: nah, I've never had to register a prepaid phone. Network operators want you to register in exchange for £1 free credit (w00t!) but it's optional.18:54
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suihkulokkithere was a big news some years ago that switzerland was still allowing anonymous pre-paid sims and they were getting used internationally by terrorists18:58
qwerty12Woot, thanks mikkov, uploading straight from scratchbox is lot faster18:59
suihkulokkiso they stopped doing it in switzerland18:59
ShadowJK_I guess the dropping the connection if no data has been seen for a few seconds is usual braindead coding, but resume failure with "Target location not available. Save to local memory." is just strange. What the hell is it trying to say...18:59
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jaskaanyoen else had weird stuff installing 4.1.1 sdk?19:00
jaskaFailed to fetch  Error reading from server - read (104 Connection reset by peer) [IP: 80]19:00
jaskaFailed to fetch  Error reading from server - read (104 Connection reset by peer) [IP: 80]19:01
jaskatried a couple times already19:01
lcukjaska, go find this peer guy and beat him up19:02
jaskadoubt itd help much19:02
lcukwell hes the one that keeps resetting your connection19:02
jaskawgetting the debs separately works tho19:02
qwerty12edit the script and keep making wget retry :P19:03
Stskeepsjaska: i have same problems19:03
jaskawell.. its apt-get who fails :).. lets see if i toss it in where-ever it has the debs and try then19:04
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qwerty12ah :). I misread that for wget errors >.<19:04
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jaskajust need to hack a newer scrollbar-less osso-xterm for diablo :|19:04
qwerty12I've readded the option for that in a quick hack I done :)19:05
summatusmentishas anyone tried fennec?19:05
qwerty12DUDE, WHERE'S MY STYLUS19:05
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jaskaalso need to make the esc/pgup/pgdn touch bar thingy smaller19:06
* jaska loots qwertys libvte19:07
qwerty12Heh, it's the one from svn with a patch by fanoush to remove the borders :)19:07
summatusmentiswhat're you doing with x-terms?19:08
jaskayeah.. xterm is the most important application for me :)19:08
jaskausing other machines over ssh?19:08
summatusmentiswell, why the hacking?19:08
qwerty12me? I wanted the reset and clear option19:09
qwerty12can't live w/out that19:09
jaskamaximizing the usable text area so i can use as big font as i can19:09
jaskaty. now i have less wheels to reinvent :)19:11
qwerty12I should reupload that diff, stupid pastebin seems to have cut parts off :)19:12
jaskacut at 226 lines?19:16
qwerty12grr, it's stupid diff cutting it off. Take the source folder: :)19:17
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aquatixhm, is that nethack?19:22
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jaskaadom i think19:23
aquatixqwerty12: that .deb in that post is the latest?19:23
qwerty12aquatix: yeah, the 1st post?19:24
aquatixah wait19:24
aquatixthe first post has a later version19:24
qwerty12what do you want? that libvte is only needed if you want to be able to see the difference between grey and black in the terminal and want to remove the border between fonts (something like that)19:25
qwerty12the first post has the actual osso-xterm mod19:25
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aquatixqwerty12: yeah, i want the first post ;)19:25
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qwerty12~curse dpkg-depcheck19:28
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, dpkg-depcheck !19:28
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aquatixok, this is awesome :)19:30
aquatixqwerty12: thanks for that patched xterm19:31
qwerty12heh, np :)19:31
aquatixi attached screen on it, then attached it again on my pc, detaching it remotely19:31
aquatixbut it still shows (frozen) on my tablet19:31
aquatixah, now it updated19:32
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* lcuk burps20:02
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talus46anyone here ever tried to use the webcam with a flash client?20:12
lcukno, but ive heard there was a bounty for it, so i think it doesnt work20:13
GeneralAntillesWho wants to bet Quim's thumb is for the picture?
GeneralAntillesPeople are baffling.20:13
qwerty12it worked but only for the flash that comes with chinook20:13
talus46does the maemo has v4l drivers?20:14
lcukGeneralAntilles, i want more more more of the clone girl.  have you been onto the flickr page and seen the video nearby in the stream?20:14
talus46so with diablo i can't access the webcam with a flash client20:14
lcukshes wearing an amazing dress that flairs out when she twirls, its breathtaking20:14
* lcuk finds it20:14
lcukits also very very short which adds to the appeal20:15
GeneralAntillesStupid Flash20:16
GeneralAntillesCrashed Quicksilver, too, for some reason.20:16
lcukshe doesnt flash does she? :O20:16
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peteblackhey guys, i've been searching in vain for a runlevel editor like sysv-rc-conf, any know of something similar?20:16
talus46well my problem is i'm build a thing like videoblog and would like very much to be able to support n81020:17
GeneralAntillesApparently I can't play it, lcuk.20:17
GeneralAntilles"Playback of this video failed. Please try again later on."20:17
GeneralAntillesMaybe moontiger had it deleted. <_<20:18
lcuktell you what, ill watch it for you20:18
talus46ok just another question then20:20
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jaskawas the "bright black" thing in libvte?20:20
talus46is the flash plugin the full version or the mobile version?20:20
lcuktalus46, it does support v4l - in gstreamer at least20:20
GeneralAntillesFull version20:21
lcuki just think its the retarded binary blob that doesnt recognise the awesomeness that is maemo20:21
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talus46and its the v4l version 1 or 2?20:21
GeneralAntillesFlash 9 doesn't support v4l220:21
GeneralAntillesWait for Flash 10.20:21
talus46yes it doesn't20:22
GeneralAntilleslcuk, blobs usually refer to drivers. :P20:22
talus46so if the maemo version is 220:22
GeneralAntillesIt is.20:22
talus46that's the problem then20:22
lcukand the flash blob is exactly that, we cannot improve on it, so its a black box20:22
GeneralAntillesBut it's not a kernel driver.20:22
talus46yes i know20:23
GeneralAntillesIt's just a binary-only browser plugin. :P20:23
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GeneralAntillesI know _you_ know, talus46, but lcuk's mixing terminology. :P20:23
lcukno im not20:23
GeneralAntillesKernel drivers do not include browser plugins.20:23
talus46going to check if is there a wrapper for v4l2 to masq it as v4l20:24
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: started initial movements towards having bootmenu.d bootmenu in extras(-devel)20:28
Stskeepswaiting for fanoush's opinion but made the bootmenu dpkg-buildpackage'able20:29
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jaskaaah, found the vte black patch \o/20:30
GeneralAntillesDid anybody submit that to bugzilla?20:31
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qwerty12_N800nah, but it's been in osso-xterm svn for time now20:32
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StslaptopGeneralAntilles: any possibility of escalating the problem of shifting between 401(sp) forbidden and peering package downloads? is a real bitch when trying to set up the maemo sdk it stops completely when apt-getting the packages for sdk - seems i'm not the only one experiencing it20:39
GeneralAntillesHadn't noticed.20:40
GeneralAntillesIs there a bug?20:40
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Stslaptopwell, i'm not sure it's a bug or it's akamai complaining over making a lot of http requests.. i guess it's a bug since it doesn't ask to re-try downloads in the script, (apt-get -d install first until working, then apt-get install)20:41
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GeneralAntillesHas somebody filed a bug in bugzilla?20:42
GeneralAntillesIf not, do so, then bug _marcell_20:42
Stslaptop*nod* k20:42
Stslaptopdidn't know infrastructure bugs went there too ;)20:43
GeneralAntillesThere's a whole section for ;)20:43
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* Stslaptop ponders if someone is doing p2p in this train since the wifi is so bloody slow20:44
GeneralAntillesI hate it when you install software over ssh only to realize the tablet is all the way across the room.20:45
* GeneralAntilles sighs and gets up.20:45
talus46great! looks like flash 10 is out20:45
talus46so how long will it take to maemo?20:45
GeneralAntillesI don't see Linux/armel on that list. ;)20:45
GeneralAntillesWhenever Nokia pays Adobe to do it.20:46
talus46so i guess probably when n900 hit the market20:47
johnxright, the n900 will get it. I'll bet dollars to donuts the no one ever releases an official flash 10 for the n8x0 hardware20:48
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woglindehm wasn theire a rumor adobe will release the source of flash20:48
johnxjust parts of it, kind of a glue layer, IIRC20:48
woglindejohny jepp20:49
* GeneralAntilles bangs head on desk waiting for to load.20:49
* johnx deletes 30GB of tmp20:49
GeneralAntillesI just want the goddamn trademark page so I can link the BlueMaemo guy to the correct logo20:50
GeneralAntillesIs that too much to ask?20:50
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* johnx ponders whether fremantle will involve API breaks or not20:50
woglindegeneralantilles I heard some say has the best opensource cms20:51
Stslaptopif the ubuntu conspiracy holds true, probably20:51
GeneralAntilleswoglinde, midgard terrifies me.20:51
johnxStslaptop, really? is it actually substantiated by something?20:52
GeneralAntillesCertain statements from Nokia and Ubuntu people seem to suggest so.20:52
johnxhuh...well I'll be damned20:52
johnxdidn't see that coming20:52
Stslaptopjohnx: sec, conductor coming20:52
suihkulokkifremantle is doomed to break abi if they update gtk20:53
johnxI wonder if they'll finally go with an upstream gtk20:54
GeneralAntillesjohnx, I figure that there'll be enough UI changes that API breaks will be the least of people's worries. ;)20:54
johnxI'd almost hold off mucking with current stuff if that was the case20:54
suihkulokkisince the patched maemo gtk will eventually conflict with something upstream cooks up20:54
GeneralAntillesjohnx, want to put something on the questions for Nokia page to that effect?20:54
GeneralAntillesKnowing is relevant to developer's interests right now.20:55
suihkulokkinew ui doesn't neccessary break api/abi in itself - it will just provide new libraries20:55
johnxGeneralAntilles, and very relevant to what I spend time on, even if I don't develop so much as hack/compile20:55
johnxactually, there's already a fremantle branch, IIRC20:56
johnxI suppose I should look there first20:56
Stslaptopjohnx: a funny comment from qqil about ubuntu mobile and not being able to go into details, moblin (ubuntu mobile upstream) switching to fedora, canonical guy saying he had a boatload of NDAs about the new tablets "watch this space in 6 months"20:56
johnxStslaptop, well that's hopeful20:57
johnxactually, god that would be incredible20:57
Stslaptopalso, upstart20:57
Stslaptopoh, and mojo.handhelds.org20:58
johnxI just want to see a unified front for mobile linux20:58
Stslaptopwhy would nokia sponsor that?20:58
johnxStslaptop, well they sponsor a lot of things, like carman20:58
Stslaptopbut mojo is very targeted20:58
johnxI pegged it as a research project20:58
johnxbut I didn't think it would be necessarily tied to any future project20:59
Stslaptopalso i kinda pondered the inexistence of hildon and such in their builds20:59
johnxisn't mamona sponsered too?20:59
johnxStslaptop, think they're building hildon in-house to use on top of mojo?21:00
Stslaptopwell that's a project from indt sortof isn't there21:00
Stslaptopjohnx: maybe21:00
* GeneralAntilles sighs.21:01
GeneralAntillesWhy weren't all of the logos gathered in one place in svg after the contest?21:01
* GeneralAntilles shouldn't be having to dig for them now.21:01
Stslaptopsomeone should bait on iTT or something21:01
GeneralAntillesAnybody know glaubert's email?21:01
Stslaptop"A conspiracy theory?"21:01
johnxStskeeps, bleh! :P I want to increase the signal/noise ratio, not put it through the floor21:01
Stslaptopif we get a "Heh-heh-heh!" from texrat21:02
johnxthen we know he's a tease, nothing more21:02
GeneralAntillesI can't imagine how godawful that thread would be.21:02
GeneralAntillesWe already know _that_.21:02
Stslaptopi would really welcome the ubuntu maemo conspiracy though21:03
Stslaptopthat'd solve so bloody many things21:03
johnxso much yes21:03
* GeneralAntilles CCs handful instead, since glaubert, apparently, doesn't use email.21:03
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johnxhuh...well they certainly have their own gtk+ 2.12.12 in trunk21:06
Stslaptopthat was what i built21:06
johnxI wonder if they're planning some kind of legacy support?21:07
Stslaptopi think they slowly deprecate stuff21:11
BULLE_Stslaptop: what is this ubuntu maemo conspiracy thing ? that they will base next os on ubuntu ?21:13
StslaptopBULLE_: yeah, well, their arm port of it21:14
johnxhuh...guess pandora has gone ubuntu as well21:14
StslaptopBULLE_: Just speculation though21:14
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BULLE_Stslaptop: aye21:15
Stslaptopi mean, it would make sense to scrap the underlying old debian base21:15
johnxwell, that just simplified things for me quite a bit *shrugs*21:16
johnxoff to sleep21:16
johnx'night all21:16
lcuknite johnx21:16
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lcuk810does nobody have anything to say tonight22:02
shaprnot me22:03
shaprOh wait!22:03
BULLE_i have nothing!22:03
* qwerty12_N800 wishes police broadcasted on frequencies below 8522:04
Stslapitt is boring these days so i ponder to stirr conversation with a good old fashioned conspiracy theory / wishful thinking about fremantle22:04
summatusmentisyou're following police scanners?22:04
lcuk810lol sts, i think a good flame war helps22:05
qwerty12_N800summatusmentis, well my tablet is running a kernel that can let the radio chip use japanese frequencies and i hoped police were broadcasting on them :p22:05
shaprIs there any decent way to run Linux on Cell cpu? I bought a PS3, but it has only 256mb of memory. I tried to buy a Mercury Computing box for home use, and the salesman laughed at me. They cost about $15k22:05
summatusmentisqwerty12_N800: :-D22:06
lcuk810n900 is just gonna be a rebadged pandora should set them burning22:06
BULLE_Stslap: freemantle is the name of the next tablet os ?22:06
StslapBULLE_: yeah22:06
yacoobshapr, iirc, linux is officially supported on ps322:06
lcuk810shapr, ps3 has linux doesnt it22:06
yacoobyellow dog linux, I think they've also made special version of ubuntu (or debian?) for it22:06
shaprYeah sure, but I really want a decent desktop box that use one or more Cell cpus...22:06
lcuk810not that i would buy a games console just for lnux22:07
yacoobyou need to repartition your hard drive, then boot it. Linux doesn't have access to some of the features, but it's kind of working.22:07
shaprMy dual core amd box has 4gb of ram.. my ps3 has 256mb of ram.22:07
derfNo cell processor is used in a desktop machine.22:07
Stslapshapr: the more cell cpus won't help on standard apps though22:07
shaprderf: Well, they are... it's just that $15k is too much for me to pay.22:07
yacoobStslap, why? if the apps are multithreaded?22:07
shaprStslap: Sure, but I want to write highly parallel apps.22:07
derfThe Mercury boxes are not for desktop machines.22:07
shaprStslap: Are you skeeps?22:07
derfThere's a reason they're $15k.22:07
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shaprderf: And that is?22:08
Stslapshapr: cell are vector processors..22:08
shaprStslap: Sure, I know that.22:08
shaprI'm very familiar with the Cell.22:08
lcuk810It helps in windows, you can run app, windows, virus checker, spyware checker, monkey thing and 7 trojans all at the same time22:08
derfThey're for making custom hardware (e.g., military systems).22:08
shaprderf: What??22:08
Stslapalright then22:08
shaprderf: Dude, it's just a CPU.22:08
lcuk810ps3 are military!22:08
derfAnything where you need a large amount of processing power with a (relatively) small size/weight/power footprint.22:08
shaprAdmittedly, it's technically nine CPUs per die, but for some value of CPU.22:08
shaprLike... my desktop!22:09
shaprThus my urge to get a decent desktop system that has one or more Cell cpus...22:09
derfYour desktop does not need that much processing power.22:09
qwerty12_N800lcuk810, lol, when ps2 was released in japan, they wouldn't let them export it due to fears the cpu could be used to control a nuclear bomb22:09
Stslaptechnically n8x0 dsp probably could too..22:10
shaprBe that as it may, I have about $5k hanging around, and the urge to build a Cell desktop with at least two Cell cores.22:10
lcuk810just get a ps322:10
shaprI have a PS3, I got it yesterday.22:10
lcuk810then you have it22:10
derfshapr: Anyway, I work for a defense contractor. We do a lot of business with Mercury.22:10
shapr256MB of ram is not overwhelming.22:10
yacoobwhat are you doing here then? Go play $some_good_game :)22:10
shaprderf: I work for a defense contractor too, and I live near Mercury...22:11
GracanaI have a PS3. I got it cheap because it has a dead bluray drive. I installed linux on it, and it's neat to play around with. It's pretty slow for most tasks, but if you use the SPUs properly you can get some interesting results.22:11
shaprderf: But I still want a dual Cell desktop for at or around $5k22:11
lcuk810shapr its better than a kick in the teeth, man has gotten to the moon using computers with less ram22:11
Stslapjävla svenskara22:12
shaprstep off dude, svensk r0xx22:12
lcuk810oh shit, my babelfish came loose22:12
shaprStslap: You're that skeeps guy aren't you?22:12
Stslapshapr: obviously22:12
qwerty12_N800lol, now we need a person to speak norwegian :p22:12
shaprI knew it.22:12
Gracanalcuk810, not enough brain waves to sustain it? :)22:12
Stslapthe rudeness gave it off? ;)22:12
shapryou got it!22:12
shaprer, whatever...22:13
derfThe PS3 is good enough to learn to develop for the cell. I don't know why anyone would buy one for a general desktop system.22:13
shaprderf: Are there better options for desktop Cell systems?22:13
shaprThis is my original question :-)22:13
lcuk810and you get  frwe game and movie with it22:13
GeneralAntillesWhy not buy some equipment to solder some more RAM onto the PS3? :P22:13
lcuk810wha more could you ask for22:13
GracanaI saw some article about Sis developing a cell gpu card with GPGPU applications in mind. That may be of interest.22:13
shaprA decent desktop with Cell cores!22:13
shaprGracana: Yeah, Mercury sells one, but even that is $5k, and it has *huge* power requirements.22:14
GracanaThe Sis one looks a lot saner.22:14
shaprOh, I didn't know about that one, thanks!22:14
lcuk810gracana, all the gpu makers are aiming towards massively multicore designs, its gonna be great22:14
yacoobcell-based tablet!22:14
lcuk8103 minute battery life22:15
GeneralAntilleslcuk810 is gonna watch 4x the giraffe porn!22:15
GracanaSorry, S3:
shaprbut while the battery works, WOW!22:15
yacoobbut what a life it would be, lcuk810!22:15
lcuk810gen i dont watch giraffeporn any more22:15
shaprGracana: That's not a Cell?22:15
lcuk810not after the deepthroat i saw22:15
Gracanalcuk810, yeah, my laptop has intel graphics, thank god.22:15
shaprOr is it, and I'm confused?22:15
Gracanashapr, er, you're right. Now I'm all confused.22:16
GeneralAntilleslcuk810, moving on to harder stuff? :P22:16
shaprGracana: Even so, good suggestion :-)22:16
* Gracana wonders where that article was22:16
GeneralAntillesshapr, spend $5k on 30 Beagle Boards then cluster them.22:16
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lcuk810speakin of clustering  i was ponderin earlier about merging desktop and having an 800*960 resolution22:19
lcuk810am gonna go read niven for a bit anyway22:22
lcuk810cyas later22:22
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yacooblcuk, which book?22:26
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lcukjuggler of worlds22:33
lcuknew dead tree one22:34
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lcukyou do realise i just had to powerup 810 connect to network get vnc running just to stop my stupid desktop flashing :p22:34
* qwerty12_N800 waits for lcuk to go again. MUHAHAHA 22:35
lcukys im warm and comfy lay in bed22:35
lcukqwerty now im connected its not as much fun22:36
lcukyeah gen?22:37
qwerty12_N800i'll be waiting...22:37
* qwerty12_N800 tries to make that sound not so pervy22:37
* moontiger was wondering22:37
lcukits my fault for not closin desktop, i could just see it flashin in corner of my eye22:38
lcukyer gan22:38
GeneralAntillesHi. :P22:38
lcukhiya lol22:38
lcukeee channel is a bit dull, its all very technology based22:39
moontigerlcuk, u could try the cooking channel22:40
moontigermight find those clone chics in there baking cookies22:40
lcukapart from one person asking how to connect a vagina to a digitl interface22:40
moontigerhmmmmmmmmm they make digital vibrators now?22:40
lcuki think hes as bored as me lol22:41
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qwerty12_N800moontiger, well, there is programs for phones that give it a vibrator function....22:41
moontigerhehehe i know22:41
GeneralAntillesI'm so glad it's finally cold enough to turn off the AC22:42
qwerty12_N800Florida? Cold? :O22:42
GeneralAntillesWell, relatively speaking.22:42
GeneralAntillesMid 70s22:43
lcukwasnt there a console game which when you did well the ermmmmm feedback got greater22:43
qwerty12_N800Cool (no pun intended) :)22:43
lcukand that wiimote has connotations22:43
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lcukits got a speaker - you can make god speak22:44
GeneralAntillesI like the Wii game where they make you hold the Wiimote up to your ear to answer your cellphone.22:44
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lcuktheres loads of things like that gan, warioworld has a bunch22:45
GeneralAntillesYes, I know.22:45
GeneralAntillesBut that felt particularly original.22:45
lcukheh, signal processing algo in wiimote has gotten better erecently22:47
qwerty12_N800Anyone tried a wii controler with the tablet? I'm tempted to buy one for the sole purpose of using on a tablet with either cwiid or wiicontrol.22:47
lcukthings like sports bowling and boxing werent quite right initially and easy to be doing the right thing but have it not respond properly22:47
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lcukduct tape it to the back and i bet i can find 50 uses for it22:48
GeneralAntillesBe nice once they get the new motion controllers22:48
lcuki cant wait for hardware with accel22:48
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N800, Navi uses one to play emulators on the bus.22:48
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qwerty12_N800Cool, thanks22:48
GeneralAntillesThe new ones will have gyroscopic rotation22:48
GeneralAntillesInstead of just x,y,z22:48
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lcukyou mean motion plus for wii?22:49
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GeneralAntillesSupposedly Nintendo will be integrating it into the Wiimote proper at some point.22:49
lcukcos thats onl-y cos you then have a pair of xyz to get a vector in space instead of just point22:50
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N800, build yourself a sensor bar, too.22:50
lcuksensor bar is easiest aspect22:50
GeneralAntillesWe don't get points in space from the accelerometers22:50
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GeneralAntillesYou get a point from the sensor bar. :P22:50
lcukwe get an acceleration from previous point22:51
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GeneralAntillesThe accelerometers report acceleration in gravities22:52
GeneralAntillesThere's no points involved.22:52
lcukdoes a wiimote work near a wormhole?22:52
* lcuk is havin 2 really odd convos..22:53
GeneralAntillesI dunno how you think the Wiimote works, but I don't think it has anything to do with how it actually does. :P22:53
lcukgan i know its got the camera to help orient it22:54
GeneralAntillesThe camera is unrelated to the accelerometers.22:54
GeneralAntillesHook up a Wiimote to your computer and look at the output.22:55
lcukthe camera gives frame of reference22:55
GeneralAntillesNo it doesn't.22:55
GeneralAntillesPut your hand over the camera and see what the motion control does.22:55
GeneralAntillesThey're entirely unrelated.22:55
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lcukalternatively, put ssensor bar on its side and see what happens22:56
lcukits related22:56
GeneralAntillesAbsolutely nothing to the motion control, that's for sure.22:56
lcukorientation and framing22:57
GeneralAntillesThe cursor position on screen doesn't have a damn thing to do with the accelerometers.22:57
glassthe game can do whatever it wants22:58
glassuse the ir camera data and the accel data22:58
glassi'm pretty sure some games use them to compensate each other22:58
GeneralAntillesSure, but the functionality of each is unrelated to the other.22:58
GeneralAntillesand Nintendo certainly doesn't use accelerometer data to position the cursor at the home screen.22:59
glassyeah, it's just a pointer device by using two 2 ir spots then22:59
glasscandles work fine..22:59
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* lcuk goes back to reading23:05
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sandmanIs it possible to compile software on the N810?23:23
sandmanLike to install something using your standard ./configure && make && checkinstall?23:23
lcukits possible to compile23:23
qwerty12_N800add sdk repo ; apt install build-essential.23:24
lcukbut configure has dependencies which ruin the tablet without extreme foo23:24
GeneralAntillesSomebody needs to write up a wiki page already. :P23:24
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: and wreck your SSU? ;>23:24
sandmanThat's unfortunate, I think.23:24
sandmanSo the N810 cannot really be a desktop replacement yet, then?23:24
lcuksandman, i develop on my 81023:24
Stskeepssandman: it's not meant as one23:24
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, only if some stupid tosser dist-upgrades23:25
lcuki can at least make on it :)23:25
Stskeepssandman: but if you want to compile packages on maemo, it's going to be a uphill battle.. if you want a desktop, go for easy debian or deblet23:25
lcuka desktop on your tablet *23:25
sandmanDeblet? Never heard of that before.23:25
Stskeepsyeah, that's deblet is short for23:25
Stskeeps"a DEsktop on your taBLET"23:25
lcukStskeeps, tonight when i was using vnc for the first time i thought i could use a full desktop based wm :)23:26
Stskeepsit is however not polished23:26
sandmanYes. I think I'd probably want that.23:26
sandmanSorta reminds me of installing Debian-ARM on the OpenMoko FreeRunner23:26
sandmanA more or less fully functional computer on your phone =)23:26
Stskeepsbattery life goes down but if you're hacker, you're welcome to help out23:27
RST38hmoo, sts23:28
Stskeepsmoo, RST38h23:28
Stskeepshow's the MIPS?23:28
RST38hsts: Something is still broken. Works when stepping through GBA program using debugger, but core dumps during normal execution23:28
Stskeepsheisenbugs, yay23:29
Stskeepsah. Vorführeffekt. bugs happening when demonstrating the software23:31
RST38hBut those Germans have got even better word that stands for "Broken through improvement"23:31
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aouedhtnsdo you think the flasher is compatible (at some level) with other nokia phones?23:46
qwerty12_N800nah, use phoenix23:46
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: well, -- n95 does use nolo23:47
Stskeepsso on some bizarre level maybe23:47
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qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, lots of  phone components are shared with tablet. *cough* bb5 platform *cough*23:48
Stskeepsyeah, initfs kinda gives that away23:48
qwerty12_N800i realised that before looking there :)23:48
lardmanhmm, initfs shared?23:49
lardmandsp code is shared23:49
Stskeepsn95 uses x-loader too23:49
Stskeepslardman: not linux though23:49
lardmanStskeeps: so it uses an initfs, but not linux?23:49
lardmanI should say DSP code was inherited, not sure how many changes needed to be made23:50
Stskeepslardman: nolo is not initfs23:50
Stskeepsthey share NOLO and X-Loader, but rest, probably not23:50
lardmanI know, you said the inirfs "gave it away"23:50
Stskeepslardman: yeah, there's a bb5 something file in OS2008 initfs23:51
lardmanah, I see23:51
Stskeepsso hence n8x0 is on the bb5 platform23:51
qwerty12_N800lardman, initfs has bb5 programs that are used with the high security feature of the processor in the n810w to generate /dev/urandom23:52
* lardman goes back to sleep now ;)23:52
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qwerty12_N800+ retu can even be found in an n7=23:52
qwerty12_N800heh, night lardman23:52
lardmanqwerty12_N800: yeah, that's common knowledge though isn't it?23:53
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lardmanwill be back23:53
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qwerty12_N800lardman, indeed, but that just enforces the fact of it being bb523:53
Stskeepsi wonder if bb5 has some things that can be abused by tablet..23:53
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qwerty12_N800a recent version of phoenix can connect to n800 via usb cable but cant do shit. you need the hardware mentioned in the l3 + l4 service manual23:55
qwerty12_N800that reminds me. i need to get updated flash files for phoenix to reflect the ssu updates23:56
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