IRC log of #maemo for Friday, 2008-10-17

moontigeri would be happy to help :)00:00
moontigerim not saying im some big expert or anything ... just i have built and run sites bigger than mycat.com00:01
Stskeepsmycat.. pornsite or cat site, .. good question00:07
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macoute_lets test00:09
macoute_Access Forbidden - pornsite00:09
lcukheh, firefox saying "waiting for"   - i wait for mycat as well and the lazy fecker just sits outside the front door meowing00:10
macoute_GeneralAntilles: is maemo large?00:10
macoute_how many page loads you have a day?00:10
Pavlov /win 4700:11
macoute_lcuk: not in archive?00:12
lcukmacoute_, its not the page loads, its the underlying CMS thats simply outgrown its design spec and is running lots of things it really shouldnt have to but has ended up doing00:12
macoute_oh, found00:12
macoute_lcuk: well, even the worst CMS should manage some pageloads a day, so it surely is about the page loads :)00:13
* lcuk throws more iron at the problem00:13
lcukmacoute_, yes, it handles its core audience of 3 perfectly00:13
lcukit just doesnt scale very well beyond that00:13
macoute_lcuk: you are talking about midgard?00:14
lcukyes, runs midguard on an n770 according to legend00:14
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macoute_midgard should scale ok00:15
macoute_as i think that is not that big site after all00:15
macoute_tablets never were a box office hit :)00:16
lcukits all in progress anyway, i think this discussion occured last year something00:16
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mgedminso, is liqbase in extras-devel yet?00:21
lcuk_inshedno mgedmin, i only just added support for osso and handling events properly, they need a bit of ironing out first.  it is available from though00:22
lcuk_inshedor is that the point of -devel?00:22
mgedminthat's my interpretation of -devel: beta stuff00:23
RST38hdevel should be ok for it already00:24
lcuk_inshedRST38h, i really want to sort out the x11 event handling first and get the first run experience nice and smooth.  as soon as thats done it will be in -devel00:26
lcuk_inshedbut i will trust your judgement on one condition ;) install and run it yourself and tell me then if you think i should00:27
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GAN800lcuk_inshed, does it cause massive data loss?00:37
lcuk_inshedthe most ive ever lost is an inprogress hyper detailed rendition of a human being.  or to put it bluntly, it crashed when i was drawin a stick man00:38
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lcuk_inshedno GAN800 it doesnt00:38
GeneralAntillesThen it's ready for Extras-devel.00:38
mgedminso, no uploading yourself into the tablet for the time being00:40
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lcuk_inshedheh mgedmin im not afraid of uploading into the tablet, its when i escape and run amokck on the wider internet00:41
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GK^LKAcan i ask some lame questions about installing and setting up the maemo 4.1.1 sdk?00:43
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GK^LKAthe documentation mentions some rootstraps00:43
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GK^LKAbut I can't find any for diablo00:44
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GK^LKAwhere can i find them?00:44
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mgedminhave you looked on
lcuk_inshedhave you tried following the instructions00:45
mgedmin... which is still unbelievably slow :(00:45
GK^LKAof course, but there aren't any links in the sdk's page00:46
mgedmindidn't it get a new more powerful server recently?00:46
lcuk_inshedwhich instructions are you reading00:46
GK^LKAyes, i'm following what's written in the maemo diablo reference man 4.1 pdf00:46
lcuk_inshedmgedmin, not yet live00:46
lcuk_inshed    so you arent following this one00:46
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lcuk_inshedor is that a different thing00:47
mgedminmaemo-sdk is an experimental half-working thing00:47
mgedminit's not the official sdk00:47
mgedminshame about the name similarity00:47
GK^LKAthen what's the offical sdk?00:47
GK^LKAto tell you the truth i need only a working php+webserver combo for my n81000:47
GK^LKAso the sdk is for compiling some php+lighttpd00:48
lcuk_inshedmgedmin, ahhh i just noticed that, SDK+...00:48
mgedmin has a broken link to the release notes00:48
mgedminboo, nokia webmasters, boo!00:48
GK^LKAmgedmin: yes, this guide is the other thing i've seen00:48
GK^LKAi've installed the sdk with the given shell script00:48
mgedminGK^LKA: the official SDK is a pain to install, but it works00:48
mgedminthe SDK+ is easy to install (if you've got debian/ubuntu), but it's not fully functional00:49
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mgedmine.g. last time I checked you could not apt-get install additional -dev packages inside the scratchbox00:49
GK^LKAthen which one is which?00:49
mgedminthe official SDK is on
mgedminthe unofficial new one based on scratchbox 2 is maemo-sdk.garage.maemo.org00:49
GK^LKAhm, i've not realized that there are two different sdks until you told :)00:49
mgedminyou were looking for the 4.1 rootstrap, right?00:50
RST38hstill cant afaik00:50
mgedminaccording to my notes it's at
GK^LKAthen I've got the offical one00:50
mgedminalthough I suppose the INSTALL.txt has that url00:50
mgedminI like this shorter set of instructions for installing the sdk:
GK^LKAhm, sure00:50
mgedminlets you have multiple maemo SDK versions in a single scratchbox00:50
GK^LKAsorry, i didn't see it00:50
GK^LKAthen i'm following this txt further, and after compiling some test files I'll be back for asking help to compile lighttpd :)00:52
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AStormwhere I can get a log of maemo-mapper's updates?01:41
GeneralAntillesOr the garage project.01:43
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* Stskeeps ponders idly what to use his dead-battery ipaq 3630 for, with familiar on it02:58
GeneralAntillesStick it by the couch as a remote?03:00
Stskeepspossible. but i don't have a tv :>03:01
GeneralAntillesBuy one!03:02
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Stskeepsyou can say much about old machines and stuff.. but familiar actually runs bloody fast O_o, same with wince :P03:03
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johnxStskeeps, which interface? gpe or opie?03:08
glassnews etc photoframe?03:08
Stskeepsjohnx: gpe03:09
Stskeepsopie better or?03:10
johnxopie's faster, but less useful to me on a 640x48003:10
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Stskeepsi got like 2x ipaq 3630 for like, what, 21$, with a stoaway kbd, charger + usb charger cable, and one CF jacket03:12
Stskeeps(21 in total)03:12
Stskeepsthink that was a pretty decent buy03:12
Stskeepsone of the ipaq has a shot battery, the other one functions fine and my gf will get that :P03:12
woglindeStskeeps yes03:13
johnxStskeeps, rss ticker?03:13
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Stskeepsjohnx: possibly03:14
woglindeah nice03:14
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woglindeuclibc now compiles with --hash-style03:14
Stskeepsprobably need another usb cable though03:14
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mdg  any 770 users here tonight?04:10
mdg  hi johnx!04:11
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mgedminmy 770 is far far away04:19
johnxso is mdg, it appears04:19
mgedminnooo! don't touch my 770, mdg!04:19
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orangeyhey all!04:49
orangeywhen I plug in the maemo, it gives me a removable drive.04:50
orangeybut I can't access that drive from the file manager.04:50
orangeyhow can I see it?04:50
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johnxyou say "when I plug in the maemo." Do you mean plug the tablet into a computer? or plug a usb hard drive or flash drive into the tablet?04:52
orangeyplug the n810 into a computer04:53
johnxwhat you see is the contents of "Internal Memory Card" or whatever it's called04:53
johnxyou should be able to see it in file manager04:53
moontigerwhat operating system ?04:54
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orangeyubuntu or XP (I'm using a virtualized XP to play with Garnet VM)04:54
orangeyI guess one question is why the file manager refuses to show me /04:54
moontigerin ubuntu it *might* not be mounting as read / write04:55
johnxto protect you from yourself :)04:55
johnxyou can see "Internal Card" in the file manager, right?04:55
moontigerheh he wants to see /04:55
moontigeru can with sshfs04:55
johnxmoontiger, I'm still responding to his earlier question04:56
moontigeroh sorry04:56
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johnxit's fine :)04:56
orangeyI wasn't seeing the internal memory card04:56
orangeybut I did see it once I unmounted and unplugged04:57
johnxyeah, it's not there while the device is plugged in04:57
johnxcan't have the same fs mounted by two devices04:57
johnxwell you could, as long as it was read-only in both places04:58
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moontigerjohnx, can u mount it read only in more than one place?05:01
johnxas long as both places mount it read-only I don't see why it would be a problem, but I'm not sure if linux lets you do that05:02
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* moontiger goes back to php05:05
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derfjohnx: Linux lets you do that.05:09
johnxah, ok. neat :D05:09
derfLinux lets you mount it two places rw, if you really want to.05:09
johnxI guess if it lets you fsck a mounted an fs it might as well let you do that...05:10
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derfLinux figures you're a big boy. If you want to hose your data, who is it to argue?05:10
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johnx"...and here's enough rope to hang yourself."05:11
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mgedminyou have to convince the fsck to give you the rope, though05:13
derfNot exactly the same situation, but for example vmware opens all of the partitions on your drive rw, and then uses software controls to determine which ones to make available to the guest OS.05:13
derfI don't know why it _needs_ to do this, but it can.05:13
johnxheh...I wonder what the comment in their code looks like for that section05:14
derfAnd then it's up to you to make sure you don't configure it to expose a drive you've got mounted rw in the host.05:14
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smackpotatowhy is minigpsd so much better than gpsd06:19
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GeneralAntillesBecause anecdotal evidence is really super useful?06:20
smackpotatoim sure it is ive noticed06:21
smackpotatoanecdotal evidence that is06:21
GeneralAntillesWhat's your criteria for "so much better"06:21
smackpotatoi just thought it might be06:23
smackpotatoits verry rigorious06:23
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smackpotatowhats your opinion GA06:24
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GeneralAntillesI don't have one, I haven't tried minigpsd.06:26
smackpotatohave you read the thread06:26
GeneralAntillesNo, tz has already caused me enough irritating on bugzilla.06:27
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infobotGeneralAntilles meant: No, tz has already caused me enough irritation on bugzilla.06:28
smackpotatoin maemo maper with gpsd you have to set it to bluetooth for some reason06:29
smackpotatoin the settings06:29
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smackpotatoim cool with that06:29
mgedminreason being: it uses the maemo bt library which interprets "" as "internal device" and starts up gpsd06:30
mgedminif you specify gpsd, it tries to connect to a daemon that is not running06:30
mgedminwithout asking the maemo bt library to bring it up06:30
arquebusis maemo totally open in that it could be ported to other handheld devices?06:32
agelike pandora?06:33
johnxarquebus, it depends on how people define "maemo" but if you mean the whole OS2008 distribution: no06:33
GeneralAntillesarquebus, no.06:33
arquebusage- I dont know, it just appears to me that maemo is the only linux distro that supports commercial apps06:33
GeneralAntillesYou can certainly run Maemo on Pandora/Beagle without too much hassle.06:34
johnxarquebus, there isn't any "support" needed for commercial apps. Companies either decide it's worth their time to make commercial apps for a certain OS/distro/device or not06:35
arquebusdont know anything about pandora06:35
ageI've seen your Beagle setup GA06:35
GeneralAntillesWell, the important point about Pandora is that the hardware is similar enough where it counts that it's not a huge issue.06:35
arquebusjohnx- thats the whole problem, commercial apps have to be ported to certain distros, there is no common installation system06:35
johnxarquebus, in this case the bigger problem is the CPU architecture06:36
johnxI wouldn't say "ported" though, just packaged06:36
arquebusjohnx- I dont think that is a big problem, its just a matter of compiling to a cpu architecture06:36
johnxas long as the app doesn't make assumptions about the CPU...06:37
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johnxbut packaging can be done with only binaries available. there are no invasive changes to the source required06:37
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peteblackhi, anyone here have a RX-48?06:39
arquebusjohnx- thats true, I guess that maemo just has another package managing system, I guess I was assuming that it was something more than that considering Nokia is more commercial oriented06:39
johnxarquebus, nope, just need to make a .deb with the right dependencies06:40
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johnxif you're only going to do it once, it's easy to do by hand, too06:40
arquebuswow, didnt know that maemo was another debian offshoot06:40
arquebusstill its too bad Nokia doesnt make a more serious installation system, I think that Nokia has potential to market Linux apps big time for commercial companies, no one has tapped into the potential for selling Linux apps commercially until Android, and Android is playing it too safe by being Java only06:43
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johnxarquebus, I don't understand why you think Nokia needs to make yet another package system to entice commercial apps?06:44
johnxthey convinced skype, gizmo, adobe, boingo-mobile, access (garnetVM) to make .deb packages.06:45
* GeneralAntilles is really bored with Red Pill idiocy.06:45
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* johnx found a way to confuse sizeeasy06:46
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arquebusbecause as youve already mentioned, there is no common installation standard between distros, I think that Nokia could create a common standard for commercial software companys to develop for, and Nokia could sell these apps also06:46
arquebuswell there has to be a better way than .deb packages because each packaging system puts stuff in different places06:46
johnxthat's what LSB is for. And how would Nokia making yet-another-package format convince redhat/debian to follow up?06:47
* GeneralAntilles avoids using positive terminology in describing Red Pill.06:48
arquebusjohnx- right now I dont think there is any avenue for either commercial or private developers to sell software without direct contracts with Nokia, but if people could sell software on their own, I think software companys would flock to cash in on the mobile Linux market06:49
johnxarquebus, well they can do that now and they obviously haven't06:49
GeneralAntillesThere needs to be a market first.06:50
GeneralAntillesand there isn't much of one yet.06:50
johnxthere are like a couple hundred thousand tablet owners at most. That's just not a market worth developing big commercial apps for06:50
johnxunless they're ports or highly specialized (read: expensive)06:50
GeneralAntillesIt's likely over 750k by now.06:50
GeneralAntillesThe last numbers were in the 300k-500k range from Summer 2007.06:50
arquebusjohnx- I see what youre saying, but I think what is holding back developers and software companys is they know they would only be selling for one isolated mobile Linux distro06:51
johnxarquebus, right, and packaging isn't the problem06:51
arquebusjohnx- well that goes back to my original point about how well maemo can be ported to other architectures06:52
johnxNokia doesn't want it to be ported. It's the same situation as MacOSX06:52
johnxthey produce software to sell hardware06:52
johnxor at best, they're apathetic about it being ported06:53
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arquebusjohnx- I can understand that, Nokia has been making big money selling enterprise apps06:55
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johnxanyways, the parts of maemo that are required to make maemo apps are available on debian and ubuntu and fedora, IIRC06:57
arquebuswell Nokia embraced open source by opening source on Symbian and it cost them like 40 million dollars to buy/give away Symbian, I would think they would be more open to porting out maemo07:00
arquebuswhoops, $400 million, not $40 million07:01
johnxtheir symbian section is pretty separate from their tablet/maemo section07:01
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johnxhuh...didn't know sizeasy could do rotation...07:02
arquebusIve heard that the gui SDK for Symbian is pretty bad, but the whole idea of opening source on Symbian is for all the industry to work together to make one united SDK and not a bunch of seperate ones07:02
GeneralAntillesAnybody have a list of all the safety locks that Red Pill disables?07:02
arquebusthis Pandora thing looks interesting, I guess this is like openmoko or something, I want to buy something like that, I had the touch screen input for openmoko07:05
johnxit's a little smaller scale than openmoko in terms of the company involved07:05
arquebusas long as it works, I'll buy one, Ive been wanting a mobile data clamshell for a long time, the only option being Nokia e90 which sucks due to its long narrow screen which is only suitable for text work07:07
GeneralAntillesPandora isn't a cellphone.07:08
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freelikegnuPandora is what the 810 shoulda been07:08
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arquebusfreelikegnu: DAMN STRAIGHT!!07:09
johnxfreelikegnu, two years late?07:09
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* GeneralAntilles doesn't care for clamshells.07:09
GeneralAntillesPandora is also a lot bigger.07:09
freelikegnuthe n800 is still serving me well, but it has not been Pandora that I've thought about a new device07:09
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* johnx likes clamshells well enough but really wants a nice convertible tablet-thing07:09
freelikegnujohnx: that would be nice, like the zaurus?07:10
johnxyeah, like the cxx00 form factor, with the n810's screen and an omap307:10
* johnx drools07:10
johnxand the c1000 keyboard instead of gaming controls07:11
arquebusGeneralAntilles: I dont understand why everyone wants exposed screens, how would you carry stuff like that around without one of those stupid screen protector condoms?07:11
freelikegnuwell, the Pandora team seems really open to design suggestions07:11
johnxarquebus, just shove it in your pocket and don't worry about it07:11
johnxfreelikegnu, not any more. :P They're in final production07:11
freelikegnuI mean they were and prolly would be for the next gen device07:11
johnxanyways, the convetible tablet design is 1) hard to pull of right and 2) patented07:12
GeneralAntillesarquebus, because my pockets aren't filled with metal shavings?07:12
arquebusGeneralAntilles: not even keys or change?07:12
johnxGeneralAntilles, where do you keep your metal shavings?07:12
GeneralAntillesarquebus, I have two pockets.07:12
GeneralAntillesOne for things likely to cause damage to other things, one for things likely to be damaged by other things.07:12
GeneralAntillesIt's not hard to keep them separate.07:12
arquebusoh, I keep my wallet in my other front pocket, that explains it07:12
GeneralAntillesWallets go in back pockets.07:13
johnxarquebus, you need more pockets :)07:13
johnxhi slonopotamus07:13
arquebusjohnx- ture07:13
GeneralAntillesThe Pandora team is, sadly, not very open on the software front.07:13
freelikegnuhey johnx I can't seem to find out if there is wpa_supplicant and driver for Diablo like there is for Chinook07:13
johnxGeneralAntilles, they're not writing much software :)07:13
slonopotamusjohnx, i still can't understand why mamona recommends -mfpu=vfp -mfloat-abi=softfp07:13
freelikegnualso curious about a2dp use in Diablo07:14
GeneralAntillesjohnx, still, a curious behavior for a project called "OpenPandora".07:14
GeneralAntilleskernel, stuff, OE recipes, etc.07:14
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: kernel stuff, OE recipes, etc.07:14
freelikegnuIt seems from the forum it is possible to do a2dp, but I could not find instructions07:14
freelikegnua2dp in diablo I mean07:14
johnxGeneralAntilles, the kernel is out there. I already linked it. :P The OE recipes...are probably really boring07:14
johnxslonopotamus, what don't you understand. that looks right07:15
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arquebusbut does the Pandora have celular connectivity? I dont see that listed07:15
GeneralAntillesLike I said, no.07:15
freelikegnuarquebus: its not a phone07:15
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freelikegnuunless you use a usb cell modem07:15
johnxfreelikegnu, cx3110x w/ wext patches is in deblet, wpa_supplicant should work from chinook. I haven't worked on a2dp lately, but the chinook stuff should work in diablo, lardman has been hacking on sbc-dsp07:16
arquebusfreelikegnu: damn damn, why do they always screw it up, how can it not have a phone, I thought only Nokia was that dumb07:16
GeneralAntillesYou realize how much trouble putting a cellular modem in there would be?07:16
johnx...especially selling it *internationally*07:16
freelikegnujohnx: thats heartening, one of the things keeping me from upgrading yet07:17
arquebusGeneralAntilles: No I dont, they can fit cellphones in watches if they want to, and there is such thing as unlocked phones07:17
johnxGeneralAntilles, if they don't get their source out around release you'll know because I'll be screaming about it on every forum in the world :)07:17
johnxarquebus, it's a regulations thing07:18
GeneralAntillesIt's not about the hardware07:18
johnxarquebus, FCC testing for a licensed band radio transmitter07:18
GeneralAntillesThere are hundreds of regulatory agencies you have to comply with.07:18
GeneralAntillesCompliance costs time and money07:18
johnxand I get the feeling that GSM/HSPA chipsets aren't really that cheap07:18
johnxotherwise I think we'd see more 3rd party data cards07:19
GeneralAntillesIt wouldn't sell for $350 with only 3000 units in the first run if it had a cellular modem, that's for sure.07:19
johnxalso...I can totally imagine talking into the pandora07:19
johnxit'd be waaay better than the whole n-gage "side-talkin" thing07:20
arquebusjohnx- its just the convenience of connecting to a celular network, Im thinking of buying a unlimited airtime contract, but I need a serious handset that can handle everything I want07:22
arquebusjohnx- I would never talk into the thing07:22
GeneralAntillesSounds like you'll want to get an N900.07:23
johnxthen what you want is a pandora+usb HSPA stick07:23
johnxGeneralAntilles, heh. hope I don't get kneecapped for selling on rival turf :)07:23
GeneralAntillesI can't imagine carting around a Pandora with a 3g dongle.07:24
GeneralAntillesThat sounds like hell.07:24
GeneralAntillesEven if it has the juice to power it without relying on a powered hub.07:24
johnxGeneralAntilles, it does have the juice, and it shouldn't be bad sticking out of the top07:25
Luriawait - a pandora discussion?07:25
Luriaare they shipping yet?07:25
GeneralAntillesYes, I know it has the juice.07:25
johnxI've been found out /me runs07:25
arquebusoh, I see the n900 is just another n810 with the slide out keyboard07:25
GeneralAntillesarquebus, the N900 isn't anything more than "OMAP3430, HSPA, HD camera" yet.07:25
GeneralAntillesAnybody claiming otherwise is spouting rumors.07:26
johnxnah, the n900 is the hypothetical device coming out sometime in the middle of next year that will have HSPA of some type07:26
arquebusall Nokia would have to do is make it a clamshell and I would buy it, but everyone is stuck on exposed screens now07:27
Luriaum, that *does* sound like a pandora07:27
GeneralAntillesClamshell sucks for walking around.07:28
johnxGeneralAntilles, how many have you walked around with?07:28
johnxto be honest I was worried about messing up my n800's screen, but it's been wedged in my pocket almost everyday for 1.5 years now07:28
freelikegnuas long as it fits in my shirt pocket I'm happy07:28
johnxGeneralAntilles, alternatively: you're doing it wrong :)07:29
GeneralAntillesjohnx, are you seriously telling me that trying to two-hand finger a clamshell walking around is gonna work?07:29
GeneralAntillesWith the case dangling in the air?07:29
GeneralAntillesI don't think so.07:29
Luriathat sounds very dirty07:29
Luriai dont know what you meant by that, but if my pandora lets me do that, i might get arrested.07:29
johnxGeneralAntilles, I seem to use the stylus more on my C1000 i guess. I think left hand holding the base and right hand poking the screen would be fine as long as the hinge is strong07:30
GeneralAntillesYeah, I never use the stylus.07:30
GeneralAntillesClamshell doesn't work for that.07:30
freelikegnuI like that I can use the n800 mostly onehanded07:30
johnxGeneralAntilles, a lot of touchscreen actions will be obviated by using the thumbsticks for scrolling, etc07:30
GeneralAntillesI don't want that.07:31
GeneralAntillesI want a slab07:31
GeneralAntilles'course, it'd be great if Nokia would ship both07:31
GeneralAntillesthen everybody would be satisfied.07:31
johnxfailing that it would be nice if most of the same software worked on both07:31
* johnx hacks07:32
GeneralAntillesThe tablet line is ready for some hardware choice.07:32
johnxopensourced maemo apps need to get ready to be on more than one device07:32
GeneralAntillesStskeeps and I were discussing that the other day.07:33
GeneralAntillesOne of the possible goals with osv-c should be to focus on portability.07:33
johnxUIs on mobile linux are such a fuster cluck07:33
Luriawhat's the interface on the pandora?07:33
johnxLuria, gmenu2x. just a basic launcher07:33
johnxpandora is a BYOC (bring your own code) type of deal07:34
GeneralAntillesThey're shipping Ångstrom now.07:34
GeneralAntillesE17, presumably.07:34
johnxyup, angstrom+kdrive+gmenu2x07:34
johnxGeneralAntilles, that would be a negative07:34
Lurianice, actually07:34
mgedminwhy kdrive rather than xorg?07:34
johnxmgedmin, why ride a motorcycle when you can drive a tank?!07:34
mgedminpeople on xorg@ claim it's no longer true07:34
freelikegnujohnx: I though Sugar might be a nice GUI for n8X07:34
mgedminkdrive is unmaintained and maemo is switching to xorg in the next release07:35
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johnxI think the pandora guys are actually going to head that way too, but for now the drivers are ready for kdrive07:35
johnxand one X server is as good as another to me as long as it works07:35
* johnx is soooo $%*&ing glad X11 is standardized07:36
Luriashame, i like enlightenment07:36
freelikegnubut yeah being as "standard" as it is is certainly impressive07:36
johnxLuria, compiling it should be really, really easy07:37
GeneralAntillesit's already compiled.07:37
johnxwell, that's true too :)07:37
johnxactually, I could spit out an up to the minute build now if anyone wants it :)07:37
Luriajohnx, soon, soon07:38
Luriasigh, i need to rebuild this network07:38
Luriamy crosscompiling machine was a recent casualty of reformatting07:39
johnxsadness. i run my cross compiles on other peoples' servers07:39
Luriaactually, that xcompiler was set up for someone else's benefit07:40
Luriabut i have all these odd machines to set up07:40
Luriain some way that makes sense07:41
freelikegnuI wonder if anyone uses their n800 as a router07:41
Luriafor the bt/hdspa connection?07:42
johnxI'm pretty sure some people do07:42
Luriabeen done07:42
freelikegnuwith a usb hub and usb ethnet adapters07:42
johnxit gets asked all the time07:42
johnxthat would be way better07:42
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Luriathats dumb, but sure07:42
Luriasigh, there should be a website where you could post a list of your accumulated hardware and people could suggest topologies and/or interesting things to do07:44
johnxdon't look at me, I'm still working on a use for my zaurus 550007:45
Luriaand someone just promised me a rs/6000 too07:45
johnxthough rss ticker, weather applet seems like a good idea07:45
Luriaafter they heard i have a 1997 as/400 in the (ebay) mail07:45
Luriasigh, i see the remains of my 5600 over there07:46
Luriawith a dead charging circuit07:46
Luriahmmm.... maybe ill try and fix it07:46
johnxI need a purpose for an O2...but other than that I try to stay in the embedded world. I have tons of stuff, but it's small stuff :)07:47
Luriaan sgi o2?07:47
freelikegnuhah I have one sitting around too07:47
Luriaim still kicking myself for not buying one for $60 at defcon this year07:47
freelikegnuI thought about debian, but no acceleration07:47
Luriaworse yet07:47
freelikegnuit has the video capture too07:47
johnxI have the audio capture only :/07:48
Luriai have a sgi 1600sw here on my floor07:48
freelikegnubut cant use it with bsd07:48
johnxlast time I tried linux X didn't work, and I (obviously) don't have an sgi support contract so I can't get a recent version of irix07:48
Luriacant or wont :-)07:48
freelikegnudoes bsd have drivers for the vid pature and accelerated graphics?07:49
johnxcan't justify selling everything I own to pay for a dying OS :P07:49
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Luriasigh, i need to go shop for a power supply  for the cheapy 8 core machine i "accidentally" built last night07:52
johnxwow...the netbsd guys got graphics accel working for the o207:52
* johnx falls out of his chair07:52
Luriagood for them07:53
Luriai need to get netbsd on my qube07:53
Luriamaybe on my sparc507:53
Luriathough 1998 solaris has kitsch value... cde ftw07:54
freelikegnuwow support for lots of PCI devices including vid and sound cards ^^07:56
Luriaon netbsd/sgimips?07:58
* GeneralAntilles bugs HAVA about getting HAVAPlayer into Extras or Tableteer.07:59
GeneralAntillesThe Beagle pico projector is droolworthy.08:01
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johnxGeneralAntilles, that would be pretty awesome08:01
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RST38hmoo, all08:02
Proteous4gb micro SD for 11.99 shipped08:02
GeneralAntillesGoogle Groups stripped the image08:02
RST38htoo small!08:02
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Luriai want one08:05 GeneralAntilles08:05
GeneralAntillesI need to duct tape one to my enviro-friendly-Beagle-case™
Luriaok, ill sound like an idiot, but what's deblet?08:07
Luriaah never mind08:08
Luriafound the project page08:08
freelikegnuis there a better option than xvkbd as non-maemo kb08:08
johnxGeneralAntilles, I keep looking at the beagle board and thinking how cool it would be to have have a laptop in a leather bound day-planner08:09
RST38hLuria: debian for tsblets08:14
Luriayeah i see that08:14
Lurialooks promising08:14
RST38hLuria: Can't be called "debian" because debian people are morons08:14
Luriathats what i was wondering about... is there a debian /armel branch?08:15
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johnxRST38h, for the record, the debian guys never said anything. mostly people getting cranky on their behalf :)08:17
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RST38hjohnx: Ah, then let us correct it: "because debian is surrounded by morons"08:18
RST38h[and I still do not understand WHY something like this would happen]08:18
johnxRST38h, "because everyone wants to tell you what color to paint the shed, but no one wants to help you paint."08:18
johnxRST38h, to keep people from forking debian for a commercial product, including a whole bunch of proprietary crud and calling it debian08:19
johnxRST38h, hence maemo not debian :)08:19
mgedminhm... do I want 4 GB microSD cards?08:19
mgedminwhy n810 didn't come with a microsd slot :(08:21
bef0rdmicrosd -> minisd adapter08:21
mgedminyes, but that would work even better with a 16 GB microSD card, don't you think?08:21
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RST38hjohnx: This only happens because you are not suggesting people to go screw themselves often enough =)08:22
bef0rdI'm doing it with a 8gb card :P
RST38hmgedmin: get a 16GB card in 2-3 months08:23
RST38hwill be in $40..$60 range at that time08:23
RST38hjohnx: considering that deblet is by no measure a commercial product, this is what its mantainers should have done in the first place08:24
johnxRST38h, the thinking was: better a simple rename now then pain later. also deblet is more googleable than debian internet tablet nokia n80008:25
RST38hheh =)08:26
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cyrus__I am trying to install a program in scratchbox called pyxdg. The install programs trys to create a file in /scratchbox/tools/lib/python2.3/site-packages/08:50
cyrus__but I get permission denied because I am not root. How do I get around this other than changing permissions on that directory08:50 fakeroot pyxdg08:51
cyrus__k..let me try that08:51
cyrus__melmoth - no. same thing. What does do08:52
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melmothprepare your environment so dbus thingy works08:53
melmothhey, pyxdg is a lib of some sort.08:53
cyrus__yes, pyxdg is a python library08:53
johnxshould it really be trying to install itself in that directory? Isn't there another python directory in sb as well?08:54
melmothpython lib should be compiled against python2.508:54
melmoththe defautl python comes with nothing. The python2.5 comes with hildon support as well as lots of other things08:55
melmothnow, you may want to check how/where it choose wich python to use.08:55
qwerty12scratchbox's internal python is pretty crappy. but it's there because things like the scratchbox shell is python etc. Dunno why it tries to make you use it for compiling though08:56
qwerty12well, "compiling"08:56
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Mikhowould anybody know how to find out which package provides a certain file on my drive?09:27
Mikhoon ubuntu/linux09:27
johnxdpkg -S /path/file09:27
johnxor just dpkg -S file09:27
johnxonly works if it's installed, if it's not installed you should hit to find a package that provides that file09:27
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Mikhothanks for the speedy answer, got the result I wanted :)09:28
johnxsure, no problem09:29
Mikhonice, the pc file is gthread-2.0, the library name libgthread-2.0 and the package is libgthread-2.0-dev09:29
johnxthis gives me an idea for a nautilus script...09:29
Mikhoit's so confusing sometimes09:29
johnxin this case the naming is usually similar for everything09:30
johnxbut sometimes .pc files pick weird names and confuse me too :/09:30
Mikhono, it's actually libglib2.0-dev that provides the .pc file09:31
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johnxwell that makes sense: .pc files are only for compiling things, so they go in the -dev package09:31
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johnxoh, libglib. that is confusing :S09:33
Mikhosometimes the pc files have a "lib" suffix and sometimes they dont. Sometimes they have "-2.0" or something, and sometimes not09:33
johnxwell ubuntu/debian force standard names on package. so even if I make a lib and call it foo, debian will rename it to libfoo.deb but if they change the name of the .pc configure scripts looking for foo.pc would break on debian...so09:34
MikhoI mean, "lib" prefix of course09:35
Mikhoso the lib prefix is recommended practice09:35
johnxright, so random people writing software name the .pc whatever they want. and distros can't do anything about it :)09:35
Mikhoand changing the .pc filename between versions is evil09:36
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LiraNunawhat about symlinks?09:43
LiraNunayou can always add old symlinks for "compatibility"09:43
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zhaozhouToo many packages disagree with that standard. There are too many packages and too many packagers to keep track of everything.10:04
zhaozhouAnd ubuntu want to simplify everything aswell, so they make all these meta-packages, which just make everything more annoying.10:04
ptmanwhat's the problem with meta-packages?10:07
zhaozhouMetapackages is not really an issue, but when there is many of them it get's annoying10:10
zhaozhouI wish they could use there tags a bit more10:10
zhaozhouright now you don't really know what a package might give you if you simply look at it's name10:10
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pupnik810moo-mo :)10:24
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solmumahamorning pupnik81010:26
solmumahamoved there?10:26
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L0cutusis possible to have a swap file > 128mb ?10:34
johnxyes, of course. but you can't make it with the GUI10:34
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mikkov_solmumaha: shadowwarrior is in extras-devel, but without level downloading11:06
JaffaMorning, all11:06
mikkov_solmumaha: ja2 licence is pretty problematic11:07
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solmumahamikkov_: prevents from downloading/extracting them?11:21
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johnx~lart hildon-fm for depending on private parts of the gtk+ API11:29
* infobot makes a balloon animal out of hildon-fm for depending on private parts of the gtk+ API11:29
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mikkov_solmumaha: ja2 source licence is not exactly what I would call open source11:44
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Stskeepsjohnx: morn11:55
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lcukjohnx, i thought gtk+ was open?11:57
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lcukbut mmmnm i agree if its not11:57
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Stskeepsit is11:58
lcukmornin folks o/11:58
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Stskeepsbut maemo gtk+ is interesting, it breaks quite a lot of stuff when it's not used under maemo11:58
lcukahhh :D its been microsfted11:58
ntsourakmorning. I have a problem installing ESbox with eclipse. No targets appear. Can I compare my setting with somebody?11:58
lcukdamn, bbl11:59
* lcuk cant get five minutes anymore11:59
Stskeepsjohnx: crazy idea: shortcut library loading paths to point to a path where maemo gtk is laying, for maemo apps?11:59
X-FadeStskeeps: It seems that fremantle will be more aligned with upstream.11:59
StskeepsX-Fade: i hope so11:59
Stskeepsjohnx: like a maemo-launcher thing :P11:59
X-FadeStskeeps: If I look at the commits, it looks like it.11:59
johnxStskeeps, that almost seems reasonable11:59
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Stskeepsthen we can coexist GTK apps12:00
X-FadeStskeeps: maemo-launcher is just a 'cache' right?12:00
johnxlcuk, gtk is open, but it has some "volatile" internal APIs that change often and hildon-fm loves to use them12:00
StskeepsX-Fade: yeah, but we might as well add some functionality since we don't want to break system GTK with maemo GTK12:00
Stskeepsand maemo apps get launched with it anyway12:00
johnxStskeeps, most normal maemo apps would need to be hacked to work with normal GTK, right?12:00
Stskeepsthose who use nokia extensions12:01
johnxI wonder how prevalent that is among the open source apps12:01
X-FadeStskeeps: Yes they do that so they don't have to load gtk over and over again. It forks with gtk already loaded.12:01
X-FadeStskeeps: That is purely a performance thing.12:01
StskeepsX-Fade: yeah, and i think it's a good idea - we're just trying to find a reasonable way to including maemo gtk on a non-maemo system12:02
X-FadeStskeeps: iirc it supports plug-ins.12:02
X-FadeStskeeps: So perhaps...12:02
Stskeepsjohnx: but making a seperate lib path for gtk should be a trivial package patch12:03
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Stskeeps(i guess)12:03
johnxyeah, since we would need to launch hildon apps with a script anyways12:03
Stskeepswell worth pondering12:03
Stskeepsgod, i need coffee12:03
johnxand I need to keep cleaning12:04
johnxback later12:04
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RST38hmoo, lardman, pupnik12:45
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Stskeepsmoo, RST38h12:46
RST38hehlo, sts12:47
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pupnik810hi RST38h12:54
pupnik810what is a nice midsize workhorse thinkpad12:54
pupnik810security issue?12:55
* RST38h is writing this from a Lenovo T61 and it sucks moose balls12:55
pupnik810what is bad?12:55
RST38hThe original IBM models at least had the nice plastic and sturdy build12:56
pupnik810yes i want that12:56
RST38hNe Lenovo ones have "Made in China" all over 'em12:56
infobotRST38h meant: The Lenovo ones have "Made in China" all over 'em12:56
pupnik810my A30 is built ok12:56
pupnik810except for a 1-pixel wide red line in the display12:57
RST38hAnd, also, it is thick, heavy, designed like a piece of Soviet machinery, comes with system software that acts up, has now got 16:9 screen (very uncomfortable unless you are watching movies), and the screen backlight (LEDs?) is somewhat bleak12:57
pupnik810matybe T40,42,4312:57
RST38hT43 was probably the best, if you compare it with other ThinkPads12:58
pupnik810WANT usb 2.012:58
RST38hWhy not consider Toshiba R500 or R600?12:58
pupnik810they have nipple mouse controller? (trackpoint)12:58
RST38hnot really, they do not have the Masturbator (tm)12:59
RST38hBut they do weight 2.4lb12:59
VeggenMy Lenovo T61 sits firmly at my desk unless I really need it somewhere else.12:59
pupnik810i don't need another life crisis (notebook w/o trackpoint) atm13:00
RST38hyou can buy an external one :)13:00
pupnik810but maybe somewhat smaller is goodder13:00
VeggenI'm getting used to the trackpad at my EEE 901.13:01
RST38hthose things are going away sooner or later anyway, so better get used now13:01
* pupnik810 gets a panicked look13:01
solmumahapupnik810: new macbook looks nice ;)13:02
pupnik810heyas sol13:02
RST38hbtw, for real comfortable feeling you can get yourself a real external trackball - beats the masturbator13:02
pupnik810maybe a business dell w tpoint13:03
RST38hDells are heavy too13:03
pupnik810and am i the only one here who hates this glare screen trend?13:03
RST38hWhy do you insist on the trackpoint so much?13:03
pupnik810i can mouse and type from home position13:04
johnx'cause it's better, and if you disagree you're wrong :P13:04
RST38hjohnx: I have worn off half of my finger while using this abomination on Portege 720CT13:04
johnxyou're doin' it wrong13:05
RST38hNot "are". "Have been". Not expecting a repeat, too13:05
johnxtoughen up your fingers maybe? sandpaper works well13:05
pupnik810also product liability -13:05
solmumahaor guitar playing13:05
RST38hjohnx: Or screw a handle onto it, Atari style =)13:06
solmumahapupnik810: when are you heading home?13:06
pupnik810getting rid of my power-munching desktops13:07
pupnik810going to a used laptop shop to check out the thinkpads13:10
RST38hT43 is not so bad13:10
solmumahacheck the macbooks too13:10
RST38hApple products cause brain damage in people. AVOID.13:11
solmumahaRST38h: the damage is already done so they work for me13:11
pupnik810best c2d lappy i saw was a dell so far13:12
lcukapple products keep the doctor away13:12
johnxRST38h, you have to admit they have some interesting ideas13:12
aquatixlcuk: because he's too scared?13:12
pupnik810i prefer to hang a severed goat's head on the front door13:13
lcukcos norton wont install on macs :D (or does it ..)13:14
aquatixlcuk: i hope not13:14
aquatixbut maybe in wine ;)13:14
lcukmmmmm wine13:15
* aquatix would like some13:15
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aquatixgotta work though :(13:15
lcukvirtual wine13:16
* Stskeeps would enjoy getting completely hammered13:17
Stskeepsjohnx: saw the first contributions from deblet to debian has started occouring? :) (0xffff in this instance13:18
johnxStskeeps, awesome!13:19
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napsy_Hello. I want to profile a program that I portet no N800. Is there a profiler for OS2008?13:22
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macoute_what do you mean by profiler?13:24
Stskeepsnapsy_: oprofile.. but not sure if it actually works13:25
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suihkulokkioprofile does work13:29
Stskeepsi had issues getting it working under deblet, no clue why13:31
Stskeepsdidn't get any samples out13:31
Stskeeps(yes, i do have a nokia oprofile kernel13:31
* Mek couldn't even get it to work in maemo, but I didn't try very long13:33
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RST38hjohnx: They do, indeed. But what happens to their recent converts can only be called disturbing.13:44
johnxRST38h, meh. you just never hear from *normal* mac users13:45
RST38hjohnx: THAT is the disturbing part13:45
johnxheh...and they were never heard from again?13:45
RST38hjohnx: They either do not exist or somethign happens to them13:46
johnxI think it's just that they're satisfied customers that don't really make a bother of themselves13:46
RST38hjohnx: can hardly believe it - there will ALWAYS be a few unsatsified13:46
johnxdefinitely. and *those* are hunted down and brainwashed13:47
johnxbut really, if someone asks me "What kind of computer should I get?" I usually just tell them to get a Mac13:47
RST38hFried in a aluminium desktop case and ritually eaten13:47
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* RST38h has managed to crash some poor Indian tech support guy once13:48
aquatixRST38h: with apple sauce!13:48
RST38hCalled Verizon about dead DSL, got routed to Bombay (or whatever), and there was the preprogrammed Indian guy13:48
RST38hDo you have Windows? -- No. -- Do you have a Mac? -- No. -- Do you have a Linux (with suspicion now)? -- No. -- <clicking, sounds of shuffled paper> What do you have then?13:49
L0cutus<johnx> yes, of course. but you can't make it with the GUI13:49
RST38h-- A DLink router. -- <his program terminates with a crash, I get transferred to the next tech support level>13:50
L0cutusany guide out there ?13:50
aquatixRST38h: ?13:50
aquatixRST38h: that's no OS, that's a router ;)13:50
RST38haquatix: Yes, but I have been inquiring about DSL connection problems and it is the router that is connected13:51
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johnxL0cutus, uhm...good question13:52
aquatixRST38h: heh, k :)13:52
L0cutusi try to google first :)13:52
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pupnik810anyone laid hands on a thinkpad "R"-series?13:52
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zhaozhoujohnx, Hmm, to increse the size of the swap you would have to increse the size of the partition, right?13:52
johnxzhaozhou, it's easier to just make a swap file instead of a swap partition13:53
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pupnik810some of the component choices make better sense - i dont think the nvidia quadros are really optimal for gaming13:53
zhaozhoujohnx, can't say i've ever seen a swap file in linux, let alone debian.13:53
zhaozhoupupnik810, I have an r6113:54
johnxdd if=/dev/zero of=/media/mmc1/some.swap bs=1024 count=9600 ; mkswap /media/mmc1/some.swap ; swapon /media/mmc1/some.swap13:54
johnxchange 9600 to some other value for a different size13:54
zhaozhoujohnx, aaaah!13:54
zhaozhoujohnx, way to simple.13:54
pupnik810zhaozhou, interesting!   can you say how it feels compared to older t-series?13:55
pupnik810or make other pro/con comments?13:55
zhaozhoupupnik810, Shamely enought this is my first thinkpad13:55
zhaozhoupupnik810, But i can't say nothing else then i love it with all my heart13:55
zhaozhoupupnik810, it's wonderful13:55
pupnik810what do you like about it?13:56
zhaozhoupupnik810, It's as it was made for linux. IBM has lots and lots of tutorials about r-series is specific13:57
johnxL0cutus, that should work fine :)13:57
pupnik810intel gma gpu?13:57
zhaozhoupupnik810, Well. The processor is not really bad, actually performs way better then my 2 year old desktop. Graphic is OK, i can't play eve in linux since cedega does not support intel ): but i've been playing hl2 and team fortress 2 in windows13:58
zhaozhoupupnik810, actually its a x310013:58
zhaozhoupupnik810, but the best of all, imo, is the networkcard, wireless card and the HDAPI13:58
pupnik810wifi performance good?13:59
zhaozhoupupnik810, network card support jumbo frames which are gigantic, i had to buy new PCI cards for all my desktops to perform as good. :-D13:59
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* pupnik810 ponders14:00
zhaozhoupupnik810, Indeed! Quick as hell. My school have 40 or 50 APs around, this computer just switches between them as if they were nothing. My HP can't keep track of them, and the HP is using the 43xx which every vendor seems to love so much14:00
zhaozhoupupnik810, However, the hdaps... well, youtube it. ;-)14:01
zhaozhoupupnik810, It's an accelerometer which you can use as a joystick. Gotta love the different scripts you can get.14:01
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zhaozhoupupnik810, I.e. smack the computer, and it switches song. :-D Tilt to change desktop, perhaps thiefprotection, or just play a game by tilting the laptop.14:02
zhaozhoupupnik810, I've had lots and lots of fun with that.14:02
Stskeepsand a computer just loves when you smack it14:02
zhaozhouWell, thinkpads are well known to be tough, as you probably know.14:03
robtaylorhey all, anyone know where I can find libnss-mdns for diablo?14:04
pupnik810haha HDAPS on T60 controlling Beryl..14:05
pupnik810i am really eyeing this nice dell D830 for 499 euro14:05
pupnik810matte screen 16??x10?? and trackpoint14:06
pupnik8102007-2008 model14:07
pupnik810T7300 Core2D i think14:07
pupnik8102gb ram 80GB HDD14:08
pupnik810intel gma 950 gpu14:08
pupnik810could get one with quadro nvs 14014:09
zhaozhoupupnik810, what's the price difference between the r61 and the d830?14:10
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wizaI want new macbook14:11
wizaI wins, just make a script that creates webalizer.confs automatically to over 500+ hosts14:11
zhaozhouugh, the new macbook, the aluminium one, it's so ugly.14:11
infobotwiza meant: I wins, just made a script that creates webalizer.confs automatically to over 500+ hosts14:12
wizanice bot14:12
zhaozhouHmm... let me just tryes this out14:12
pupnik810300 euro14:14
zhaozhouis the r61 300 euro more?14:15
pupnik810forward slash14:15
infobotzhaozhou meant: test the r61 300 euro more?14:15
pupnik810yes sir14:15
pupnik810is your nick registered?14:15
zhaozhouyes it is14:16
pupnik810ah it doesnt store its substituted output in its input buffer14:17
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zhaozhouAre you the author of the bot?14:19
zetheroowhat is the best GPS program for Maemo that is free14:20
zhaozhouI'm using maemo mapper14:20
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zetheroodoes that work well?14:20
zhaozhouIndeed it does. The GPS device does not, it cant find me. But the application is sweet.14:21
zetheroolike I have seen how TomTom works and its pretty awesome14:21
zetherooso you don't use it for GPS?14:21
zhaozhouWHat feature are you looking for?14:21
zhaozhouNah, not really.14:21
zhaozhouWell, come to think of it, i'm going to try search for my location now.14:22
zhaozhouI'll start a search and lay the device by the window for awhile.14:22
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zetherooI tried installing maemo-mapper on my N810 a week ago and it did not want to install14:23
zhaozhouzetheroo, really? which OS do you have?14:24
zetherooI flashed it to the right one14:24
zetherooI was told here that there was a bug and that it was being fixed14:25
zetherooI'll try it again now ..14:25
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zetherooit installed14:31
zetherooand says Searching for GPS Receiver ...14:31
zhaozhoumine is still in the window searching for satellites14:32
bematiczetheroo: is your gps working with satellite ?14:32
zetheroowhat else would it work with?14:32
bematici have the same problem14:32
bematicmy n810 cannot fix satellites14:33
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zetherooyeah ... mine takes forever14:33
zetherooand then looses the lock very easily14:33
zhaozhouOh, i'm not the only one.14:33
zhaozhouI thought mine were defect.14:33
pupnik810zhaozhou, how is the r61's fan noise?14:34
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MangoFusionmy n800 suddenly crashed and glowed blue. weird.14:35
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pupnik810it are belong14:35
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zhaozhoupupnik810, the only time i can hear the fan is when i hold my hand in front of the fan so no air is blowing out, and it has to be a very warm day, lots of compiling and gaming going on on the computer, and i hold my hand there for about 20 seconds14:36
pupnik810looks real good actually14:36
pupnik810ty for the info14:36
zetheroowhat specs is your R61? (Thinkpad right?)14:39
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zetherooseems like a whole lot of ppl are having problems with the N810 and GPS14:40
zhaozhouzetheroo, Hold on, i'll pastebin some output.14:41
zetheroowish I knew this before I wasted my money on this thing :(14:41
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pupnik810that nv 140 would be frustrating14:43
zetherooI think Nokia should do a recall once they sort this out ...14:43
mavhcyou didn't check the internet before buying?14:43
zetherooits useless as a GPS unit14:43
pupnik810works for me usually14:43
mavhcnot useless, depends where you mount it etc14:44
zhaozhouzetheroo, Ugh, seems ubuntu has'nt got wgetpaste in its sources.14:44
X-Fadezetheroo: did you install agps-ui?14:44
zhaozhouI got it to work once14:44
zhaozhouThe GPS that is14:44
mavhcbut it's not half as good as a real modern gps device14:44
zhaozhouBut now it's been in the window for quite awhile, nothing found.14:44
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zetherooI did check online ... but I did not google things like "N810 GPS Problems" or "N810 GPS sucks" .... I thought a Nokia product was something you could trust ... and GPS is not exactly a brand new technology either ..14:44
mavhcsometimes it gets stuck14:44
mavhchave to kill the gpsd I think, can't recall14:45
X-FadeWith agps things have improved a lot.14:45
zetherooI installed agps ... but how is that usefull when your on the road?14:45
mavhcwhere's the agps last location file stored?14:45
zetherooand actually it has not helped even when I am connected to the wireless network ...14:46
X-Fadezetheroo: use gsm data?14:46
zhaozhouagps? gpsd?14:46
zetheroowhats that?14:46
mavhcyou only need to use agps if you've moved 200km since last using gps14:46
zhaozhouHave i been missing something?14:46
zhaozhouI thought for intance maemo mapper is using the device directly from /dev/somethinggps14:46
zetheroolook at this :
infobotzhaozhou meant: I thought for instance maemo mapper is using the device directly from /dev/somethinggps14:47
zhaozhoui love you, infobot.14:47
lardmanmavhc: time is also a factor14:47
infobotzhaozhou meant: i LOVE you, infobot.14:47
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mavhcthat's so retarded14:49
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zetheroowhat is?14:50
mavhcthe s/ stuff, anyway, /var/lib/gsp/nvd_data14:50
lardmanJaffa: ping14:50
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mavhcthat's gps, not gsp14:51
zetherooseems like there is a coding bug in the software ... is that right?14:51
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mavhcnoone really knows, or if they do aren't telling14:55
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zetheroohow do you get Maemo-mapper to find the GPS hardware?14:58
Jaffalardman: lunchtime pong14:58
zhaozhouI think my gpsdevice gave up14:58
zhaozhounow it just sais 'updated 35 days ago'14:58
pupnik810hmm found an r61i for 499...15:00
zetherooI have an R61 ...15:01
zetheroomight be selling it though ..15:01
lardmanJaffa: I'm about to go grab some lunch too, was just going to ask if you're interested in pushing other app manager tweaks too; I'd also like to see error reporting implemented15:02
Jaffalardman: your comment about not rebuilding the whole list for every single minor change reminded me how much that annoys me.15:03
zetherooCore2Duo T9300 2.5 GHZ 6MB cache/3GB RAM/100GB 7200RPM HDD/DVD-DL-RW/15.4" high resolution LCD/Wifi/BT15:03
JaffaGiven the App Mgr is the gateway to the community for most users, seems we should give it some focus; I'm sure GeneralAntilles will agree :)15:03
lardmanyeah, we should sit down and do some patching, assuming the code base will survive15:03
* Jaffa could do it on Sunday, after rewiring and moving rooms in his house tomorrow15:04
JaffaDemoting study to make way for Jr#1 so that Jr#2 can have the small room15:05
JaffaAnyway, too nice to be inside - going for a wander.15:05
lardmanok, I might take a look at the code this arvo if I finish my other work15:06
zetherooanyone know how to get maemo-mapper to see the gps hardware on an N810?15:07
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lardmanzetheroo: select bluetooth and no mac15:07
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zetheroobut its internal15:08
lardmanI know15:08
lardmanand make sure you've set it up correctly in the control panel applet too15:08
zetheroowhat setup?15:08
zetherooGPS setup ... or BT?15:08
lardmangps setup, there should be a control panel item15:09
lardmanmake sure you select the internal GPs there15:09
lardmanthen, in maemo mapper, seelct the BT GP and leave out the mac15:09
lardmandoes that make sense?15:10
* lardman looks for his n810 to give the actual names15:10
lardmancontrol panel > gps location for the first bit15:11
zetherooyes I went there and enabled GPS15:11
lardmanand in maemo-mapper, in the settings menu, on the first tab named "GPS" select bluetooth for the method and leave the MAC field blank15:12
zetheroodid that too .... maemo-mapper still says Searching for GPS reciever ... and now says Establishing GPS Fix15:12
zetherooI am going outside to see if it works :)15:12
lardmanfine, sounds like it's found it then15:12
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zetherooI might be ready to except this device as a good GPS device15:35
zetherooI am in the house now and still fixed15:35
zetheroohow do I get all the GPS features working? ...15:35
zetheroolike ... I suppose I need maps!?15:36
zetheroois there a way to download a particular route?15:37
melmothi dont think you ll get a fix indoors15:37
* Jaffa unwalks15:37
melmothzetheroo: try clicking on the help button in maemo mapper it is rather well documented15:37
zetherooI found it a bit drawn out ...:)15:37
zetheroois there a way to download routes?15:38
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* lardman heads for some lunch15:39
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melmothyes there is, but i do not remmeber exactly how, did it once or twice. You have to be connected to the internet for it to wokr15:39
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zetheroowell I am  ... its downloading maps automatically as I view them ...15:39
zetherooI tried that just now ...15:43
zetheroobut dunno about the options15:43
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zetherooI can't just get a GPS map of the country?15:43
mavhcit downloads bitmap tiles from googlemaps etc15:44
zetherooand what about voices?15:44
mavhcthere's also the incomplete openmap stuff, I assume that's vectory15:44
mavhcit uses flite if installed apparently15:45
zetheroofrom the repos?15:45
zetherooso there are no maps in the repos for download ... I got to view everything I want downloaded ...15:46
mavhcwell, you can tell it to get data for x tiles around a route15:47
mavhcor get data in a rectangle I think15:47
zetherooso say I want to travel from city A to city B ... how would I get the maps for that?15:48
mavhccreate a route first15:48
zetherooflite is not in my repos15:49
mavhcoh, did you click download sample repositories in the maps menu?15:50
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mavhcdo you have the extras repo?15:51
zetherooin Download Route what is the Auto-Update option for?15:51
zetherooyes I do15:51
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mavhcdon't know, mostly I use the built in map program15:53
zetheroowhich you had to buy ... right?15:54
mavhcno, you have to pay for routing and turn by turn instructions15:54
zetheroowell I need to get some voices working ...15:55
lcukmake a playlist with all the voice samples and rock out to such soothing tracks as "turn right in 50 metres" or that old classic "please turn around"15:57
zetheroohow do I install flite?15:58
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zetheroois flite supposed to be in the repos?16:03
melmothshould be in the extras repo16:05
melmothin the application manager, select the "extras repo", and then, if you dont see it, use "apt-get install flite" from a terminal as root16:06
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zetheroohow do I get into root?16:07
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melmoththere is more than one way to do this. Taht should be documented 'somewhere' in the wiki . I usually just install openssh to put my own password and be able to ssh as root16:08
zetheroowhat about something like sudo ?16:08
melmothwell, you have to be able to edit the sudoer file first :)16:09
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mavhcinstall the get root package16:12
zetherooits called "get root"?16:13
Stskeepsor rootsh16:13
mavhchow can I tell why hildon-desktop has a load of 30% according to loadapp thingy?16:13
mavhcrootsh sounds right16:13
infobotmethinks root is not a Good Thing to use when using IRC. Please use a different account.16:13
infobotit has been said that becomeroot is on Maemo to get root run "sudo gainroot" or dig in wiki for proper howto16:13
JaffaOh FFS16:13
Jaffainfobot: becomeroot is
infobot...but becomeroot is already something else...16:14
Jaffainfobot: forget becomeroot16:14
infobotJaffa: i forgot becomeroot16:14
Jaffainfobot: becomeroot is
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zhaozhouMan, that bot is sweet.16:15
zetheroook I installed rootsh16:16
zetheroonow what?16:16
JaffaWhat do you want to do? The wiki says that to get a root prompt, you can type `sudo gainroot' or `root' for short.16:17
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zetheroopackage flite has no installation candidate16:18
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Jaffazetheroo: flite presumably isn't in Extras.16:20
zetheroook... now what?16:20
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melmothtry a binary of another repo (it used to be there)...or recompile it for diablo if it s not working16:22
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zetheroo :-@16:22
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lcukapt-get remove tooth:   apt-get error,will not remove tooth16:38
Andy80hi all16:39
lcukhiya andy16:39
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X-FadeJaffa: Thanks for the push on jalimo-info ;)16:55
X-FadeJaffa: I wonder if we can use mudbuilder to create a proper 'source' package?16:56
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JaffaX-Fade: interesting question. Don't know :-/17:10
X-FadeJaffa: Plugin ;)17:10
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penguinbait_214is down again17:18
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X-Fadepenguinbait: No?17:18
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penguinbaitit is for me17:19
penguinbaitI can get everywhere but there?17:19
suihkulokkiStskeeps, johnx, which is the recommended nit-env ?17:19
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penguinbaityou can open in a browser? and it loads?17:21
X-Fadepenguinbait: Yes.17:21
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penguinbaitI opened it in IE and it never opens, I fired up firefox and it loads17:21
penguinbaitAre they boycotting windows or is it just me?17:22
X-Fadepenguinbait: It really is just you. Loads fine in my IE6.17:23
penguinbaitI am running IE717:23
X-Fadepenguinbait: IE7 too.17:23
penguinbaitoh well, firefox is working17:23
X-Fadepenguinbait: Spyware? :)17:24
penguinbaitno thanks :)17:24
penguinbaitwas that an offer ?17:24
Stskeepssuihkulokki: -lxde is the most developed17:24
X-FadeThat is always my firts thought when a site doesn't work in IE. Hijacked browser;)17:25
penguinbaitNo hijackers here, more than likely some new vista feature to keep me from Linux related sites :)17:26
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Stskeepsqwerty12: bored?18:07
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qwerty12Stskeeps: Lol, yeah :)18:07
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Stskeeps <- anything you feel like building?18:08
Stskeepsit's for debtree18:08
Stskeepsgoing to try to make a tool for people to realize what closed source things they depend on in their open apps18:08
qwerty12You have a sbox don't you? (Though, I can put out an compile if you wish)18:09
Stskeepsno, i don't :P it broke constantly while building18:09
Stskeepser, while dling i mean18:09
Stskeepselse i would have done it myself :P18:11
qwerty12I just kicked my stylus and have no idea where it went :P18:12
Stskeepsi've lost a stylus somewhere in my gfs car i thin18:13
qwerty12hehe, I lost one in Slough so if anyone needs a new stylus and is hating nokia for not providing an easy way to get one...18:15
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slonopotamustie it to tablet with a rope18:16
X-Fadeqwerty12: It seems some shops sell them:
qwerty12X-Fade: Cool. I wonder if they sell N800 ones :)18:18
X-FadeA bit expensive, but still ;)18:19
slonopotamusondemand governor rocks?18:20
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RST38hAh, they sell n810 styluses! (stylii?)18:20
slonopotamuswhat the hell is that magic?18:22
Stskeepsslonopotamus: similar stuff maemo does18:22
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Stskeepsthe last part is to avoid udev fuckiness. for some reason udev locks the mmc block devices18:23
Stskeepsso fsck can't happen18:23
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slonopotamuswhy you don't want fsck?18:23
Stskeepsi do want it, which is why it's in boot-basics, as past udev where normal fsck happens, it fails horridly18:24
Stskeepsit's a really weird bug18:24
Stskeepsbasically after udev runs, fsck can't access the block device exclusively18:24
Stskeepsto fix any errors18:24
slonopotamusoh. misread.18:25
Stskeepsslonopotamus: the _LINUXRC stuff is because there's people who doesn't use my bootmenu patches supporting linuxrc :P18:25
Stskeepsand hence the environment is .. abnormal18:25
slonopotamusStskeeps, and where is display initializaton?18:25
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Stskeepsslonopotamus: omap-fb-console and omap-fb-tools18:26
Stskeeps(boottype stuff in omap-fb-console is because of our rescue menu thing)18:26
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slonopotamusthx, exploring18:28
slonopotamusand kernel-diablo-modules-fbcon?18:28
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Stskeepsslonopotamus: modules built for the diablo kernel containing framebuffer modules18:29
Stskeepsjust extract the from the deb18:29
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slonopotamus# ugly hacks follow18:32
slonopotamuswho writes /tmp/.bootmode?18:32
slonopotamusahha, ahha... i have to confiscate your svn ;) many useful tricks are there18:32
slonopotamuskernel-diablo-modules-fbcon is a very smart packagge ;)18:33
Stskeepsslonopotamus: deblet-rescue-menu18:33
Stskeeps( see )18:34
slonopotamusisn't that module available in initfs?18:34
Stskeepsfbcon? no, not afai18:34
slonopotamuscan't watch now, i'm on gprs18:35
infobotit has been said that rootsh is an easy way to get root and it's found here:
infobothmm... root-access is
GeneralAntilleslardman|gone, Jaffa: Hell yes at patching h-a-m! . . . and "finally!" ;)18:36
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Fennec alpha has been released. Can you ping them again?18:36
GeneralAntillesThere's a bug18:36
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: And they only provide a chinook version.. blergh ;)18:36
GeneralAntillesI can only assume they're working on it.18:36
GeneralAntillesI'll harass dougt whenever he pops in.18:37
mfinkleX-Fade: we test on diablo as well18:37
X-Fademfinkle: We try to get you guys to upload to extras(-devel) ;)18:37
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mfinkleX-Fade: I think we're waiting until we get closer to beta18:38
GeneralAntillesExtras-devel is perfect for alpha releases.18:38
slonopotamusstrange, strange...18:39
X-Fademfinkle: I guess it won't build on the first go, so we might need some time to get things working ;)18:39
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, thanks for the PuTTY write up!18:39
X-Fademfinkle: So the sooner, the better..18:39
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Stskeepsslonopotamus: how's it going with base compilation?18:40
slonopotamusStskeeps, troubles with python, didn't solve yet. not going to crosscompile perl, will build natively after booting18:41
Stskeepspython isn't very crosscompile-friendly18:41
slonopotamusyep. but no python = no portage18:42
* GeneralAntilles bangs head on desk at people adding random shit to the wiki because they broke their install in some convoluted way.18:43
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Stskeeps"Red Pill as a way of life" articles, or?18:43
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GeneralAntillesSome oddness somebody just added to18:43
infoboti heard flashing is
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* GeneralAntilles hates having to clean this shit up.18:44
slonopotamusStskeeps, deblet-omap-fb-splash - funky boot image?18:44
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qwerty12GeneralAntilles: No problems :). I think it may need some cleaning but I'm a wiki noob :)18:46
qwerty12That will be my excuse :P18:46
JaffaGeneralAntilles: that change to ~flashing came about from a thread I spotted on ITT earlier18:47
GeneralAntillesYes, I know.18:47
GeneralAntillesSomebody want to set him straight?18:47
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GeneralAntillesI'm tired of trying.18:47
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GeneralAntillesIf you've got packages that conflict with osv, and you try to reinstall osv with apt-get, it'll tell you which packages need to be downgraded/removed, right?18:51
Stskeepsslonopotamus: funky splash cos console is boring18:52
Stskeepsalso it gives a better reflection of time passed18:52
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* qwerty12 keeps console enabled on my computer. It reminds me that I'm booting into Linux, not windows :P18:53
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GeneralAntillesDoes emjayes' rotation still conflict with osv?18:54
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GeneralAntilles should probably specify that the Mac version is only for x86. . . .18:59
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slonoslonopotamus, bye19:06
qwerty12qwerty12: qwerty12 hi19:07
slonoslonopotamus, disconnect!19:08
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Stskeepssemi-stupid package19:15
slonopotamuswhy not just mkdir -p ${DESTDIR}/./etc/X11/Xsession.d19:15
Stskeepsbecause i wrote it using a half-baked shell script19:15
Stskeepsi did 60+ raw debian packages to real buildable packages19:15
Stskeepsi wasn't going to do it in hand19:15
Stskeepscomputer scientist19:16
Stskeepsdo it three times, and then write a tool for it19:16
slonopotamusso... how many tools you wrote? ;)19:17
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slonopotamusyou can't write fourth  ;)19:18
mikhailzRobot101: ping19:18
Stskeepsi have a bunch of silly tools laying about19:18
Robot101mikhailz: hey, it's whodat who was having problems, but I just suggested extra-auth-{user,password} to him in /msg19:18
mikhailzwhodat: I think extra-auth-password still maps to that password field in the advanced account settings for SIP19:19
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mikhailzbut the whole concept of passing auth credentials in CM parameters is bonghits19:22
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Robot101mikhailz: agreed19:25
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cyrus__anyone know of a partition program for maemo19:29
Stskeepscfdisk :P19:29
qwerty12sfdisk *grin*19:29
cyrus__Stskeeps - I looked for that..and sfdisk, can't find a package to install19:29
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qwerty12Hrm, would cfdisk have value being in extras?19:34
qwerty12hi pupnik19:34
Stskeepsqwerty12: yeah, probably, but it's a bitch compili'19:34
qwerty12Stskeeps: I've done it before :)19:35
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pupnik810hi qwerty1219:36
pupnik810the ibm x300 looks nice19:36
summatusmentisthinkpads aren't technically ibm, that's why I ask :)19:37
cyrus__qwerty12 - where can I find cfdisk? A search on google hasn't turned up anything19:38
qwerty12cyrus__: stskeeps has a deb somewhere. If not, I have a deb somewhere...19:39
cyrus__can you point me to a link please and thank you19:39
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adrenal_245hi all19:48
adrenal_245so i've been an XP user forever19:48
adrenal_245and just got this tablet19:48
adrenal_245don't know much about linux19:48
Stskeepsno, you can't run windows mobile on it ;p19:48
adrenal_245but i've been trying to install KDE19:48
adrenal_245don't want XP on it, lol19:49
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adrenal_809seems to be more than one way to install19:49
Stskeepsyup, penguinbait's KDE, deblet, debian chroot19:50
adrenal_809so, for a complete noob, a lot of this stff is greek19:50
adrenal_809i was wanting to try KDE out19:50
adrenal_809but keep maemo the way it is19:50
adrenal_809i have a 4 GB card19:51
adrenal_809and the N81019:51
Stskeepswell, you can always reflash maemo back19:51
Stskeepswhen you've messed it up with penguinbait's KDE19:51
lardmanmight be best to dual boot a normal pc to get the hang on kde19:51
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adrenal_809and just a backup to restore it?19:51
* GeneralAntilles doesn't understand how anybody can use KDE on the tablets.19:52
summatusmentisGeneralAntilles: agreed19:52
woglindegeneralantilles me either19:52
adrenal_809thought about doing the duel boot with my old lappy19:52
adrenal_809is KDE not good for the tablet, then?19:52
summatusmentisit's... usable, with the stylus19:53
lardmanit's resource intensive, designed for PCs19:53
* summatusmentis prefers fingers19:53
lardmandesigned for larger screens for the most part, etc.19:53
adrenal_809so, like anybody that gets a new toy, i'm trying to see what it can do19:53
adrenal_809oh, ok19:53
* qwerty12 likes a desktop environment that doesn't drive watchdog crazy :)19:53
zapI have seen one guy using KDE4 on his UMC19:53
zaplooks fine, esp. counting that he managed to get 3D running in Ubuntu (via 3D accelerator)19:54
adrenal_809so do most people just use maemo on the tablet?19:54
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zapmaemo is great19:55
zapconventional desktops aren't designed for such small screens19:55
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zapthe concept of overlapping windows is horrible19:56
lardmanadrenal_809: yes, but don't let that disuade you from testing other things; however get a feel for KDE on a desktop machine first so you can see if you want to try it19:56
adrenal_809i see19:56
lardmanadrenal_809: you could get one of those CDs which boots to Linux, what are they called?19:56
qwerty12live cd19:56
lardmanthanks qwerty12, been a long week19:56
adrenal_809i was thinking of puttin ubuntu on my old lappy19:57
lcukevening lardman \o19:57
qwerty12knoppix, the kubuntu install cd afaik can run in a live cd19:57
lcukwhos on jaiku19:57
lardmanhi lcuk19:57
qwerty12lardman: heh, for me, it's been fast :)19:57
* aquatix installs liqbase 0.0.819:57
lardmanqwerty12: for me long and busy (but productive), brain is tired now19:57
aquatixfor a cup of awesomeness :)19:57
lcuk0.0.9 should include bugfixes,  0.1 *should* include the icons19:58
lcukand be in extras19:58
aquatixso it'll even be automagically updated?19:58
qwerty12lardman: I'll pretend to say the same about my week... :P :)19:58
lcukaquatix, give it a chance, its gotta go through devel and promotion19:58
lcuki dont even know how to use pgp yet19:58
aquatixlcuk: great :)19:58
* qwerty12 sees how parted runs on the tablet19:58
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* lcuk might change the license to "shout it from the rooftops if its good"19:59
lcukooops, mashin potatoes, brb19:59
* aquatix should get some supper too19:59
adrenal_809well, thanks for the info on KDE. i'm not going to dork around with trying to put it on m n81020:00
adrenal_809thanks all20:01
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Stskeepsqwerty12: command line is okay, gparted not so much20:02
qwerty12Stskeeps: yeah, just tried parted on my elcheapo 1gb, worked nicely20:03
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* Stskeeps commits more sane wifi powersave20:06
Stskeepsbased on when the wifi is connected or not, using dbus20:06
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* lcuk tosses a coin, heads i code, tails i lounge around, get drunk, then code.20:34
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* qwerty12 now knows how screen corruption bug creeped in... :P20:35
lcukheh, thats not a bug of my doing though20:36
lcukN1 does not experience it20:36
lcuki have no way of reproducing on it20:36
Stskeepslcuk: i'm in. i have beer20:36
lcukbut on N2 i get it like you after a reboot20:36
lcukexcellent Stskeeps20:37
qwerty12Heh, I'm not so bothered about the screen corruption :). I can only get it to show once and the loading times are so fast, it's no bother for me to quit and load it again20:37
lcukexactly - its how applications should be20:37
* Stskeeps ponders how he could shoehorn suspend to ram into deblet20:37
lcukthats why i never bothered to hildonize it - the ONLY time it was ever an issue was if you had drawn a mona lisa type sketch and the screen blanked20:37
qwerty12grr, how can uuid-dev NOT be in the chinook sdk repo20:38
woglindechinook is old20:38
lcukits not *that* old though, its still os200820:38
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qwerty12I know, I use diablo here. But I'm sending parted to the autobuilder. I think it makes sense if people using a cloned os or something can use parted in chinook or diablo20:39
* lcuk can't stop smiling at maemo.org20:40
woglindelcuk hm why?20:41
lcukgo and see :)20:41
woglindeit's so fast now?20:41
lcukits not the speed, its the content20:41
woglindeah right20:41
woglindethere is your name20:41
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Stskeepswhat on -earth- is /sys/devices/platform/dsp/state?20:42
pupnik810maybe the best thing about .nl is all the opem wlans20:42
woglindelcuk ah this cool app20:42
woglindeI saw it before20:42
lcukbut its installable now :)20:43
woglindebut only the text stuff20:43
lcukno, everything is there - more than the old original video shows20:43
pupnik810i dreamt about a fast psx emu last night :/20:44
lcuksketching graffiti camera maps physics books stars all wrapped up in a touch friendly ui with nice fast kinetics and stuff :)20:44
lcuklol pupnik810 ive still got your screen resolutions in there20:44
lcukwhere are you now20:44
woglindelcuk hm did you use any widget/grafic libraries like qt or gtk?20:45
pupnik810in a carribean bar ;)20:45
lcukpupnik810, still in amsterdam?20:45
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lcukwoglinde, no - its all hand crafted to run smoothly and show the n8x0 in its best light :)20:46
woglindelcuk all in assembler then?20:46
lcukheh, not quite - its c20:46
woglinde*g* okay20:46
Stskeepszap: google tells me you know something about /sys/devices/platform/dsp/state?20:46
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lcukthough im not afraid of arm asm :) its like 68k so i feel at home20:46
lcukheh pupnik810 then i know the kind of bar you are in :D20:47
lcukbut i cant see you cos its cloudy20:47
* qwerty12 now knows I am destined to go to Amsterdam20:48
woglindelcuk are the source available?20:48
Stskeepsred light district, qwerty12?20:48
qwerty12Stskeeps: yer, but to get high20:48
lcukqwerty12, when i went to leeenuxtag i was stuck in amsterdam airport for 2 hours - i had face pressed against window drooling20:48
pupnik810if you like biking, do a few days on bike20:48
lcukwoglinde, in the maemo garage :) l20:49
qwerty12lcuk: lol20:49
woglindelcuk okay thanks20:49
lcukproject name: liqbase20:49
lcukproject coolness: high20:49
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qwerty12WOAH. My exaggeration meter just blew up20:49
* pupnik810 is not convinced :020:50
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lcuk:O pupnik, you above all others should know how far ive come with this20:50
woglindelcuk hm uh I wonder why you checked in the debian generated files too20:52
woglinde  build-stamp configure-stamp20:52
pupnik810no i have been avoiding liqbase, dunno what's good about it.20:52
pupnik810but i will read soon when you have nice webpage :)20:53
lcukwoglinde, does it matter? but its accidental anyway - ive never used svn or anything20:54
lcukits nice enough and gives features20:54
pupnik810the n810 is the best thing next to a camera to pocket while bikihng20:54
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pupnik810but in germany it nsux cause no open wlans20:55
woglindelcuk its not this bad20:55
woglindeokay I have to go20:55
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GeneralAntillesStill unstyled?20:58
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GeneralAntilleslcuk's not using the pretty design I put together for him. :(20:59
lcuki only just got copy a couple of days ago GeneralAntilles :'(21:00
lcukill rectify right away21:00
* lcuk bows down before lord general emporer antilles and begs mercy21:01
GeneralAntillesKiss the ring!21:01
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lcukwipe your ass first21:01
GeneralAntillesNasty bastard. . . .21:01
pupnik810i must bike ... darkness falls21:01
* lcuk can hear the collective groan around the world21:01
lcukk pupnik810 have fun21:02
pupnik810wish y'all a spiffy evening...21:02
qwerty12_N800pupnik810, have a good journey :)21:02
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qwerty12_N800lcuk, a grin here :p21:02
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GeneralAntillesBye, pupnik810.21:02
lcukGeneralAntilles, now ive got a few sections it makes sense to do it21:02
lcukie actual content21:02
lcukbefore yesterday it just had a youtube link and a .deb link21:03
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AStormok guys21:05
AStormdo you have some nice planning app, like GNOME's planner?21:05
AStormbut w/o GNOME :)21:05
lardmanStskeeps: dsp state?21:05
lardmanStskeeps: says "run" when the dsp is running21:05
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Stskeepslardman: mmk, says "0" for me and i've seen multimedia echo 2 to it as well21:06
lardmanI'd guess a powersaving state, but I don't know21:07
Stskeepsi'm just curious cos i'm trying to find sources of power consumption, - and ways to detect if dsp is running so we can do safe suspend to ram :P21:07
lardmanStskeeps: it will be in the kernel source though21:08
Stskeepsmm, should look i guess21:08
AStormneed, <P>IM, quick!21:08
lardmanyeah, or remind me later on and I'll take a look for you21:08
AStormworking one21:08
AStormwhere P doesn't mean personal21:08
AStormand certainly does mean easy to sync21:08
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, clearly these questions can only be answered by you. :P
Stskeeps <- and you thought maemo bugzilla bugs were bad21:14
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: .. i need a PR guy21:15
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, ever seen 472370 on the gnome bugzilla?21:15
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qwerty12_N800the gnome wankers removed but it was about this guy reporting a crash with porn movies with some really fucked up names21:16
GeneralAntillesApparently deleted.21:16
* GeneralAntilles is out of mayonnaise. :(21:19
lcuki hope you have a backup supply of baconnaise though21:19
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GeneralAntillesOut of bacon, too. :(21:20
* Stskeeps was planning to make burgers but seemingily had moldy bread21:21
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: No BLT? :)21:21
lcuk:( tis a sad sad day indeed21:21
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, that's the worst!21:21
lcuki made burgers last night21:21
GeneralAntillesFresh bread is so much better, but it just doesn't last.21:21
lcukhiya X-Fade :P you never answered about the multitouch thing21:22
X-Fadelcuk: Well, no you know how it goes. Got distracted.21:22
X-Fadelcuk: But did read your new website :)21:22
lcukyeah i know that one, ohlook a butterfly21:22
X-Fadelcuk: And I think you get the idea :)21:23
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: bless you for the comment on tools repository21:23
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GeneralAntillesI'd actually like to see some more of the stuff from the SDK repo moved into Extras21:24
GeneralAntillesbuild-essentials etc21:24
lcukshould be in extras-devel soon :)21:24
GeneralAntillesOr maybe they could just remove coreutils from the SDK repo so it doesn't nuke the tablet.21:24
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: stable/unstable (extras, extras-devel) would be so much better :P21:24
Stskeepslike debian21:24
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Juha is kaltsi here, I think ;)21:25
qwerty12_N800GeneralAntilles, scratchbox uses coreutills :/21:25
X-FadeBut then again, there are a lot of Juhas in Finland.21:25
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: could always Provides: coreutils for busybox.. but dunnio21:25
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|rt|hey guys I got a n810 earlier this week and I'm concerned that the directional pad doesn't work...which apps use the directional pad so that I can test it?21:25
lcuk|rt|, anything with a text box21:26
lcuknotes app21:26
GeneralAntillesThe discussion on Tools is taking place on -developers if anybody wants to jump in.21:26
|rt|lcuk: ok it should scroll the text boxes?21:26
X-FadeJuha, Tero, Eero, I know multiples of those names ;)21:26
lcukrt - it should do what cursor keys do in a normal desktop ap21:26
qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, eww, busybox in sbox. Actually, busybox does provide  coreutills but also conflicts with it21:26
lcukahhhhh - mental note: add cursor key support to the one textbox in liqbase21:27
Stskeepsqwerty12_N800: then again, if sb is supposed to be SDK for tablet, why shouldn't it be /bin/sh?21:27
|rt|lcuk: yeah it's not moving the cursor21:27
X-FadeOk, fennec looks cool. But performance is way, way, way off.21:27
qwerty12_N800parted is in diablo extras-devel, sfdisk haters rejoice21:27
|rt|lcuk: can i cat the device in the xterm to see if it's doing anything21:28
Stskeepsnow for gparted, qwerty12_N80021:28
lcuk|rt|, you oculd find and download xev and see whats goin on21:28
lcukif you have diddled with your keymap you couldv screwed it up21:28
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qwerty12_N800Stskeeps, nah, i aint a developer :p21:28
lcukX-Fade, lots of alpha browsers at the moment, all waiting for a performance boost21:29
|rt|lcuk: I haven't done anything at a low level with it yet other than ssh into it and install vim and look around21:29
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X-Fadelcuk: Well, this one needs it the most ;)21:29
X-Fadelcuk: Really, slideshow.21:29
jewardHi, how can I read .lit files on maemo?21:29
lcuk|rt|, im really not the best person to talk to about internals21:29
lcukX-Fade, awww boo21:29
X-Fadelcuk: But it has some cool concepts.21:29
qwerty12_N800jeward, grab convertlit and use fbreader21:30
|rt|lcuk: well I appreciate your help21:30
qwerty12_N800jeward, convertlit is available for tablet somewhere + a quick gui21:30
lcuk|rt|, xev should however tell you if the low level system is detecting keypresses, hope its not entirely broke for you21:30
GeneralAntillesAt least MicroB is getting performance boosts with each update.21:31
lcukyeah GeneralAntilles its much nicer now21:31
|rt|lcuk: well if it is i can rma it at TigerDirect where I bought it21:32
jewardqwerty12_N800: apt-get able?21:32
* qwerty12_N800 needs to set up hosts + usercontent.css21:32
lcukfair enough rt21:32
qwerty12_N800jeward, don't think so21:32
GeneralAntillesOh, thanks, qwerty12_N800, that reminds me.21:32
* GeneralAntilles needs to too.21:32
|rt|lcuk: if you ssh in as root can run cat /dev/input/mice and then use the directional does it spit out anything at you?21:32
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N800, make a .deb for that yet? :P21:32
|rt|lcuk: or does that show up as the up, down, left, right arrow on the which case I'll need to use xev21:33
qwerty12_N800GeneralAntilles, No :p. i suck at packaging :p. though it does sound like an interesting idea...21:33
lcukgod knows i havent got the system runnin21:33
lcukand im on downtime21:33
GeneralAntillesMake css-adblocking and hosts-adblocking21:34
GeneralAntillesCSS should be easy21:34
* lcuk is officially havin a rest21:34
GeneralAntillesjust add or remove one text file.21:34
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lcuki tihnk thats the first time ive said stuff like that21:34
* GeneralAntilles throws TODOs at lcuk.21:35
|rt|lcuk: thanks for you help...I'll contact nokia's support and work with them to see if it's indeed a problem with the directional21:35
* lcuk throws WORKSFORME back at you21:35
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* GeneralAntilles spams REOPENEDs at lcuk.21:36
* lcuk locks out GeneralAntilles, takes away his hammer, deletes his acocunts, and signs him up for the nokia knitting club21:38
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jewardconverlit is apt-get able, by the way.21:39
* Stskeeps ponders to take a crack at getting fedora arm on tablet21:40
lcukyou would be better gettin fedora hat to sit on the tablet21:40
lcukespecially if you use the stand21:40
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, to what end?21:40
jewardHow do I enter a '|' in an xterm again?  I forget.21:40
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i'm bored and i have a lot of beer.21:40
GeneralAntillesFocus on making Deblet more awesome instead. :P21:40
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: mm21:40
* Stskeeps is just unsure what direction to go in really21:45
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GeneralAntillesI still want a Hildon DE.21:46
Stskeepsthe difficulity is however what hildon is, is it hildon with the GTK extensions or not :)21:47
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lcukStskeeps, how large is your project21:48
Stskeepslcuk: not big at all21:48
Stskeepsif you mean in terms of people21:48
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lcukand the barrier of entry, could i build it on my device or do i need a full devkit21:48
lcuki meant MB capacity21:48
Stskeepsoh, you can either build packages inside deblet like you would on a debian machine (apt-get install build-essentials) or on a qemu arm emulator21:49
Stskeepswe don't have a SDK, and if we were to have one, it would probably be a trick to distcc from tablet/emulator to a local toolchain on a desktop21:50
lcukhow large is deblet install version?21:50
Stskeeps661m is my nit-env-lxde atm21:50
* lcuk coughs21:50
Stskeepsbut that's with iceweasel, midori, synaptic21:50
Stskeepslemme see what docpurge and localepurge does21:51
lcukis it possible to make a really minimal version that people could sit a selection of WM ontop of?21:51
|rt|lcuk: I feel dumb now...i just realized that i wasn't pressing on the directional button hard enough21:51
Stskeepslcuk: yeah, nit-env-x and build a package on top21:51
Stskeepswe have different levels21:52
GeneralAntillesqwerty12_N800, remove the midgard_article template from the top of the NFS article whenever you feel like it doesn't suck.21:52
lcukStskeeps, im thinking cos theres plenty of x11 window managers around and would want core minimal system21:52
Stskeepslcuk: yeah, - and lxde is actually lightweight in comparison to what you get :P21:52
Stskeepsa hildon env would be smaller, obviously21:53
qwerty12_N800GeneralAntilles, sure, i'll try and clean it some more sometime, thanks21:53
GeneralAntillesNo, thank you! :D21:53
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|rt|what screen protectors does everyone recommend for the n810?22:02
lcukbig thick ones22:02
flo_lap|rt|: none?22:02
|rt|flo_lap: you don't scratch your screen with the stylus?22:03
jewardqwerty12_N800: I have convertlit, but I don't understand how to make something FBReader will understand with it.22:03
lcuk|rt|, you only scratch your screen with stylus if you have grit or dirt on the screen or stylus to scratch it with22:04
lcukdont let grubby fingers touch it if you are scared22:04
* qwerty12_N800 is convinced I don't need one after my n800 came out fine after being smacked by a wall and hitting the concrete floor22:04
lcukand cleanse occasionally with wd40 or something ;)22:04
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qwerty12_N800jeward, hmm, give me a sec22:04
lcuknote: dont take my advice as gospel22:05
* lcuk has worn his screen out22:05
flo_lap|rt|: no, i prefer to keep my screens clean and therefore i do not scratch these.22:05
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lcukhiya flo_lap22:05
flo_laplcuk: your screen doesn't count ;)22:05
lcukheh, i use mine a bit more than most22:05
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jagernotgot my n810 today22:06
lcukflo_lap, i saw someone on the U in berlin - she got out an old dell pda - it had specific scratches in the palces she used it - she mustv played solitaire every day on the train for years22:06
jagernoti have heard the screen is pressure can i read the pressure of the stylus in a c program?22:06
flo_laplcuk: hehe22:07
lcukjagernot, XSPSetTSRawMode(dpy, True);22:07
lcukfollow that keyword and find all you need22:07
jewardqwerty12_N800: I run it on a .lit file and specify output, but FBReader shows it as empty.22:07
lcukits uncalibrated raw pressure info22:07
jewardI must be doing something wrong.22:07
qwerty12_N800jeward, I used this frontend for clit (yes, convertlit is called that too...) : . then i pointed fbreader to the new zip22:07
lcuk:O qwerty, you said a bad word22:08
qwerty12_N800lcuk, surprise! :p22:08
lcukyou have made this guy go and find the clit22:08
lcuki wonder if he will ever find it22:09
jagernotlcuk thanks!22:09
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jagernotcant connect to it22:10
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lcukseems to be, give it a few minutes and try again?22:11
lcukello JamieBennett122:11
JamieBennett1Hi Gary :)22:11
lcukJamieBennett1, the projector thing we used, was it something you took over or from nokia?22:12
lcukor did c-base find it?22:12
JamieBennett1Project was from c-base22:12
lcukthe overhead one?22:12
lcukwicked then22:12
lcukjagernot, maemo is workin again now apparantly22:13
JamieBennett1(you broke it ;))22:13
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lcukheh no - the last i heard before we arrived was one might be rigged up - they didnt know before whether one could be found22:14
* lcuk has an image of all the c-base crew flying around the world hunting22:14
JamieBennett1I tried to get a camcorder and a stand to do screen caps but it failed. They 'found' that somewhere apparently.22:15
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lcukyeah, worked wonders - now we just have to make sure we get one for every summit22:16
lcukbrb anyway22:16
Stskeepssomeone should hack libgtkstylus to use libxsp22:17
GeneralAntilles|rt|, Boxwave anti-glare.22:17
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JamieBennett1lcuk: Indeed. If I have the oportunity to attend the next summit I want to organise the talks well before we get there (presentations on USB keys beforehand, equipment available and setup e.t.c)22:18
Stskeepsso that a hard press means right click or something22:18
X-FadeStskeeps: That is called tap-and-hold ;)22:19
Stskeepsyeah, but without the maemo gtk :P22:19
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* Stskeeps isnt satisfied with libgtkstylus so22:19
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|rt|GeneralAntilles: thanks I'm looking at their stuff now....need to get a case for it as well22:20
|rt|I don't really care much for the one it comes with from nokia22:20
GeneralAntillesIt's just a shipping protector.22:20
GeneralAntillesNot meant to be left on22:20
GeneralAntilles(though I left mine on my N800 for 6 months before I got the Boxwave)22:20
GeneralAntillesI have a guide on applying the Boxwave somewhere on itT if you do end up getting it.22:20
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Gave some nice scratches in the scrollbar area for me ;)22:21
GeneralAntillesI used my 770 without a screen protector22:21
X-FadeOn the shipping protector one.22:21
GeneralAntillesI had scratches from Maemodrac22:21
* Stskeeps loves his boxwave screen protector22:21
Stskeepsafter scratching the work one without a screen protector :P22:22
* GeneralAntilles can't remember whether he was using plural or singular for wikpages.22:22
GeneralAntillesAnybody want to update: ?22:23
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X-FadeLater guys, have a good weekend.22:27
jewardqwerty12_N800: My n810 won't install the lit2zip*.deb file. :-(22:27
jagernothello...what should i do to connect to n810 from my linux i would like to telnet to it. thanks22:28
GeneralAntillesBye, X-Fade.22:28
infoboti heard extras is
jagernotopenssh is there on extras u mean?22:29
qwerty12_N800jeward, use dpkg -i lit2zip.deb as root22:29
jewardqwerty12_N800: It complains of no python, is there an argument that tells it to also install pre-requisites?22:29
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qwerty12_N800jeward, hmm, apt-get install whatever it's asking for22:30
jewardqwerty12_N800: K.22:30
jewardAh, much better!22:33
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Stskeepsanyone who's good with gtk.gdk.Color?22:37
Stskeeps(python or otherwise)22:37
Stskeepsi just found some code where they use "#rrggbb" notation for constructor of it, which doesn't fit in any apis i can find22:37
jagernothmm i cant find openssh on extras..22:38
GeneralAntillesIs it enabled?22:41
GeneralAntillesIt's in there, anyway.22:41
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* ShadowJK_ fails at tap-and-hold too often22:42
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jagernotis it not possible to telnet over usb?22:44
jagernoti have connected n810 to my linux mc via usb22:44
qwerty12_N800jagernot, compile utelnetd :p22:45
* qwerty12_N800 would highly recommend openssh instead like GeneralAntilles said22:46
GeneralAntillesIf anybody wants to add their favorite brand.22:47
jagernoti download openssh for n810 and install it and run it? but i dont have wifi internet access here22:47
jagernoti want to do a hello world app to start with.22:48
jewardqwerty12_N800: Well, I got it running, but I don't really see the advantage of FBReader over just loading the .htm file into the web browser?22:48
jewardqwerty12_N800: Unless I'm missing something significant.22:48
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qwerty12_N800jeward, bookmarks :) + it's a dedicated book reader. but I didn't recommend fbreader, it was you asking how to load an lit into fbreader22:49
sp3000hmm, how much free space does / have on a flashed device now?22:49
jewardqwerty12_N800: Ah, what do you recommend?  :-)22:50
qwerty12_N800jeward, fbreader :). It's the only book reader we have afaik.22:50
GeneralAntillessp3000, ~128MB22:51
GeneralAntillesjeward, formatting, hotkeys, library support, bookmarks.22:51
jewardqwerty12_N800: Thanks for all your help!22:51
GeneralAntillesIt's a lot better than the browser for reading.22:51
qwerty12_N800jeward, np22:51
jewardYeah, bookmarks would be very useful.22:51
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qwerty12_N800jagernot, openssh debs are here: but it's a little more long than installing from extras. If all you need is a shell over usb, maybe using the g_serial module would be easier22:55
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mavhcrotation in fbreader too, and I assume lower ram usage23:10
sp3000download openssh packages, put on mmc over usb, umount  and disconnect, install on tablet, reconnect, umount on pc, on device as root rmmod g_file_storage, insmod /mnt/initfs/lib/modules/*/g_ether.ko, ifconfig usb0 alocaladdress, on pc ifconfig usb0 anappropriatenearbylocaladdress23:13
sp30002. ?23:14
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Stskeeps3. PROFIT!23:15
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mavhc2. invent the iphone, it's simpler23:16
qwerty12_N8004. Armed robbery where i steal Stskeeps's profit23:16
mavhcalso you forgot step 023:17
Stskeeps0. Coffee.23:20
Stskeepsgod, it feels good when one of your file server hds actually do fail, and your data is safe with zfs, and backup23:20
|rt|has anyone played with fennec yet?23:21
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Stskeepshrm, plan 9 exists for arm..23:30
* Stskeeps glances at tablet23:30
zapAnybody knows, how/when the NIT synchronizes time with some external server?23:30
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zapfor some reason, the time on NIT is ~20 minutes off23:30
Stskeepsdon't think it does23:30
Stskeepsget ntpdate or the likes23:30
zapwell, I can't remember me to set the date/time23:31
Stskeepszap: google tells me you know something about /sys/devices/platform/dsp/state and what it does? :P23:31
zaplooks like he did it itself :)23:31
Stskeepswell, irc logs of this channel said something :P23:31
zapmaybe I asked what's that? :)23:31
Stskeepshehe, okay23:31
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RST38hzap: if it does sync time, it has to do it via NTP23:44
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GeneralAntillesHelloooo, andre___.23:54
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