IRC log of #maemo for Thursday, 2008-10-16

Stskeeps	which means maemo and nokia aren't seperable :P	00:00
melmoth	mhh, i think we can store quite a lot on the server, i was afraid of the limit on the tablet :) I think on the server this should be changeable by the server owner.	00:00
moontiger	right	00:00
melmoth	and data about to be removed should be send to the user by mail	00:00
moontiger	10 or 20 can be a default but any limit within reason is ok	00:00
melmoth	nothing is ketp on the device. It is stored, untill a connexion is up, then it is send	00:00
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moontiger	ok i see	00:00
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melmoth	but if there are 4 hours of gps, 2 days in a row, without connexion, i wonder what will happen	00:01
moontiger	maybe only keep 10 or 20 data points for each	00:01
moontiger	until u can upload	00:01
melmoth	when the device states that the aplication must save its data , it is saved in /tmp/positions.txt	00:01
moontiger	right	00:01
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moontiger	of course ... shutdown notifications etc	00:01
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GeneralAntilles	Well, then should our focus be on pushing people away from Nokia-specific dependencies and towards more compatible practices?	00:02
moontiger	melmoth, also maybe look at the timestamp of the last update and limit to only so many per hour or whatever?	00:03
Stskeeps	that was my thought, but that may also hinder platform development cos there's not many alternatives to stuff like libconic, gps libs, etc.. not sure how open they are	00:03
melmoth	yep, i think that s what i ll do.	00:03
melmoth	i first have to see how fast does it fill.	00:03
moontiger	Stskeeps, surely once we know the chip used in the gps we can get a driver for it?	00:03
moontiger	right	00:03
Stskeeps	moontiger: oh, problem isn't the driver, it's the libs people use to access with	00:03
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: maybe simply making a statistics on how dependant the apps are on properitary pieces	00:04
moontiger	i thought it was gpsd?	00:04
GeneralAntilles	gpsd is pretty damn open. ;)	00:04
moontiger	right	00:04
Stskeeps	alright, my bad	00:04
moontiger	:)	00:04
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, I think the osv-c effort would help expose some of these failure points.	00:05
Stskeeps	nod	00:05
Stskeeps	but taking a apt dependancy tree and mark "tainted" packages	00:05
Stskeeps	could be interesting	00:05
GeneralAntilles	Yeah	00:05
Stskeeps	"your app depends 15% closed source packages"	00:06
moontiger	u know ive been in the hal channel for the last few days and nobody talks	00:06
moontiger	\its like they have all achieved a state of zen esp or something	00:07
mgedmin	'cause dave pulled out all the memory modules	00:07
moontiger	and communicate without words	00:07
Stskeeps	ascended, eh?	00:07
melmoth	they r waiting for a callback.	00:07
moontiger	hahaha	00:07
moontiger	i didnt register an event handler	00:07
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Stskeeps	try writing to them in HAL API	00:09
moontiger	hahaha	00:10
moontiger	use dbus-send	00:10
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qwerty12_N800	listen to secret messages with dbus-monitor	00:11
melmoth	time to sleep over here. good night maemo !	00:12
moontiger	night melmoth	00:12
moontiger	:)	00:12
moontiger	i tried dbus-send --dest=channel	00:14
moontiger	and it worked :)	00:14
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Stskeeps	hehe	00:15
moontiger	brb	00:18
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* Stskeeps heads off to sleep too, exam in "specification of it systems" tommorow :(		00:19
RST38h	~curse MIPS again just because it is never enough	00:19
infobot	May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, MIPS again just because it is never enough !	00:19
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mikkov_	autobuilder queue manager is flawed	00:53
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roue	join #RHEL	00:53
roue	oops	00:53
roue	:)	00:53
mikkov_	it takes every five minutes ONE package for building	00:54
mgedmin	are the autobuilder scripts public?	00:54
mgedmin	i.e. can we submit patches?	00:54
GeneralAntilles	mgedmin, of course.	00:54
GeneralAntilles	http://extras-cauldron.garage.maemo.org/	00:54
GeneralAntilles	Bugzilla is a good route for patches.	00:54
mikkov_	there are 3 builders, but when one package takes 1 minute to build, builders are idling and queue get longer..	00:55
GeneralAntilles	Or just harass X-Fade.	00:55
mgedmin	what was the name of that package that checked for packages used for building a deb?	00:55
mikkov_	dpkg-checkbuilddeps	00:56
mikkov_	but it doesn't work for me though	00:56
RST38h	if he gets harassed any more, he may commit harakiri	00:56
mgedmin	I got it to work once, somehow	00:56
qwerty12_N80O	mikkov_, do you have devscripts installed?	00:56
RST38h	sleep.	00:57
mikkov_	for me it doesn't work because strace segfaults on my machine	00:57
mikkov_	qwerty12_N80O: yep	00:57
qwerty12_N80O	ah, for me, i was missing devscripts	00:57
mgedmin	no, that's not the one I meant	00:57
mikkov_	something else?	00:57
mgedmin	dpkg-depcheck, that's what	00:57
mgedmin	dpkg-depcheck -m dpkg-buildpackage -rfakeroot -b	00:57
mgedmin	will install a LD_PRELOAD hook and track all the files opened during the build process, then prints out the package names	00:58
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mgedmin	helps you construct the build-depends line in debian/control	00:58
mgedmin	a bit faster than playing ping-pong with the autobuilder	00:58
mikkov_	actually I meant to say dpkg-genbuilddeps...	00:58
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mgedmin	cool	00:59
mgedmin	it's a wrapper around dpkg-depcheck	00:59
mikkov_	yeah, just remembered	00:59
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mikkov_	I get "resume: ptrace(PTRACE_SYSCALL, ...): No such process" with it	01:00
mikkov_	and some more crap and then it hangs	01:01
GeneralAntilles	I wish we had a way to change background programmatically.	01:02
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mikkov_	change background image path at /home/user/.osso/hildon-desktop/home-background.conf and restart hildon-desktop ;)	01:09
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GeneralAntilles	mikkov_, need something better.	01:10
GeneralAntilles	I want to have it cycle the image every 24 hours.	01:11
GeneralAntilles	Cleanly	01:11
qwerty12_N80O	An external program would be needed, it doesn't have an dbus interface. The nice thing is that code for hildon background manager is in hildon-desktop	01:12
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qwerty12_N80O	k, i lied, it does use dbus, can't see how it sets an image though	01:16
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GeneralAntilles	http://bugs.maemo.org/show_bug.cgi?id=3030	01:20
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derf	With an X pixmap ID, of course.	01:32
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yacoob	uhhh. New parser. 'With an X pimpmap ID, of course'.	01:39
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derf	But yeah, it looks like you'd have to have a daemon running to intercept that DBUS call, log the pixmap ID, and then draw directly to the pixmap and force a window repaint somehow, and then hope hildon desktop doesn't invoke one of its 18 ways to reload what _it_ thinks the background image is.	01:46
derf	Because there appears to be no way to change that value externally short of restarting hildon-desktop.	01:46
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smackpotato	.	02:04
LiraNuna	;	02:09
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smackpotato	how come minigpsd seems to work better than gpds,	02:14
smackpotato	gpsd	02:14
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Pavlov	anyone heard anything about beagle boards with more memory?	03:23
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Pavlov	coming out? ever?	03:23
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GeneralAntilles	Pavlov, the Beagle guys are interested in shipping a 256MB RAM PoP with no NAND.	03:34
GeneralAntilles	They haven't actually shipped one yet, though.	03:34
GeneralAntilles	If it's likely to happen, it seems likely that it'll be sometime in the next 3-4 months.	03:35
GeneralAntilles	#beagle is really the better place for Beagle Board-related questions, though. ;)	03:35
* Pavlov tries that out		03:35
Pavlov	;)	03:35
Pavlov	oh i'm there too	03:36
GeneralAntilles	Though they tend to be active mostly during business hours.	03:36
Pavlov	k cool	03:36
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Paulius	Hey guys, small question. I have a 770 and bluetooth compatible cellphone. I want to do so that I could send SMS messages through my 770 (that is, compose on there and have my phone send it). I've searched forums and saw a few ways of doing it.	03:42
Paulius	What's the most recommended and possible simplest/foolproof way to achieve this?	03:42
mgedmin	your question assumes there is one	03:43
* mgedmin tried PhoneLink, but had no luck with it		03:43
Paulius	Yeah PhoneLink was one of the first choices there.	03:44
Paulius	I just wanted to get your opinions because it doesn't seem like they're actively distributing it for OS2006.	03:44
Paulius	Certain phones aren't compatible with the SMS sending. But I've just tried it out with my Mac and this software and it worked.	03:44
Paulius	Meaning that now I just need to find software on the 770-end of the equation.	03:44
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Paulius	Speaking of which...	03:50
Paulius	Do you think that OS2008 is viable on the 770?	03:50
mgedmin	there's a hacker's edition	03:50
mgedmin	personally I wouldn't risk it	03:50
Paulius	yes I know.	03:50
Paulius	I used to run it but it was terribly slow.	03:50
GeneralAntilles	Works fine for me.	03:50
mgedmin	but then I'm rather conservative when it comes to software	03:50
Paulius	Now I'm reading some forum threads and people say that it works "fine"	03:50
Paulius	GeneralAntilles: What about the speed?	03:50
Paulius	mgedmin: I can't stand the stability in OS2006 and I want access to newer software.	03:51
GeneralAntilles	Eh, I cut my teeth on OS2005. ;)	03:51
GeneralAntilles	With MMC booting, a 48MHz kernel and swap it wasn't too bad.	03:51
Paulius	Would you recommend upgrading the OS?	03:51
Paulius	What's your performance like.	03:51
GeneralAntilles	Admittedly, I don't use my OS2008HE 770 as a primary device.	03:52
Paulius	Do you have any tutorial links for the 48MHz kernel?	03:52
GeneralAntilles	There's a thread on itT by bunanson	03:52
GeneralAntilles	Should be easy to find.	03:52
Paulius	So should I assume that it's still terribly slow?	03:52
GeneralAntilles	Eh	03:52
GeneralAntilles	It really depends on your threshold for slow.	03:52
GeneralAntilles	I find it to be acceptable	03:52
GeneralAntilles	others may not	03:52
Paulius	Is it similar to browsing on OS2006, though?	03:53
Paulius	OS2006 loads a page in about 5 seconds.	03:53
GeneralAntilles	OS2007HE is a reasonable compromise between OS2008HE and OS2006.	03:53
Paulius	When I tried out 2008 and even 2007 some time ago (unoptimized, though) it took me about 15 seconds to load a page.	03:53
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Paulius	I don't understand the MMC thing.	03:56
Paulius	So the flash card is supposedly faster than the built-in flash?	03:56
GeneralAntilles	At the very least, it isn't running a compressed filesystem.	03:57
Paulius	oh, and it normally is?	03:57
GeneralAntilles	jffs2 is compressed.	03:57
Paulius	But I'm presuming that the default 64MB card isn't enough then.	03:57
GeneralAntilles	No	03:57
Paulius	How much do I need/want?	03:57
GeneralAntilles	1GB is about right	03:58
GeneralAntilles	or 2GB if you can find one cheap enough	03:58
Paulius	wow that much?	03:58
Paulius	and most importantly... where do I find MMC memory...	03:58
GeneralAntilles	The internet	03:58
Paulius	yeah but shipping costs = teh fail	03:58
GeneralAntilles	Eh	03:59
GeneralAntilles	Buy yourself a couple new harddrives off newegg while you're getting the card or something	03:59
Paulius	I'm in Canada.	03:59
Paulius	We don't have good retailers such as newegg.	03:59
GeneralAntilles	newegg ships to Canad. ;)	03:59
Paulius	Yes but pricing is terrible.	03:59
GeneralAntilles	s/Canad/Canada/	03:59
infobot	GeneralAntilles meant: newegg ships to Canada. ;)	03:59
Paulius	Way more expensive than retailers here.	03:59
Paulius	because they charge for customs and stuff	03:59
GeneralAntilles	If the card is too expensive, you might just as well try to find yourself a used N800.	04:00
GeneralAntilles	The N800 is lightyears ahead of the 770.	04:00
Pavlov	sd cards are like $30 for 8gb	04:01
Paulius	Pavlov: Not SD. MMC.	04:01
Pavlov	oh	04:01
Paulius	I got tons of SD cards in my house.	04:01
Pavlov	yeah	04:01
Paulius	1GB DV RS MMC MEMORY	04:02
Paulius	The heck does DV and RS stand for.	04:02
GeneralAntilles	Reduced Size	04:02
Paulius	Is that what I want?	04:02
GeneralAntilles	Probably dual voltage	04:02
GeneralAntilles	Yes	04:02
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mgedmin	a n8x0 is worth it	04:05
Proteous	yes	04:06
Proteous	I mean no	04:06
Proteous	wait	04:06
mgedmin	heh	04:06
Proteous	worth it for what?	04:06
Proteous	mine was worth it	04:06
Proteous	but yours might not be	04:06
GeneralAntilles	Worth it over the 770.	04:06
* mgedmin tired and not comprehensible		04:06
mgedmin	cpu and ram size alone are worth the switch	04:07
Paulius	Yeah but I got better places for my money to go at the moment.	04:07
Paulius	And the 770 works for what it does.	04:08
Paulius	Minus the small annoyances.	04:08
Proteous	one word "KEYBOARD"	04:08
Proteous	!!!	04:08
povbot	Proteous: Error: "!!" is not a valid command.	04:08
Proteous	!!ERROR	04:08
povbot	Proteous: Error: "!ERROR" is not a valid command.	04:08
Proteous	!ERROR not a valid command	04:08
povbot	Proteous: Error: "ERROR" is not a valid command.	04:08
Proteous	!ERROR"	04:09
povbot	Proteous: Error: "ERROR"" is not a valid command.	04:09
Paulius	I was thinking of getting an iPod touch... but the app store is terrible.	04:09
Proteous	!/"	04:09
povbot	Proteous: Error: "/"" is not a valid command.	04:09
Paulius	No useful free apps, and don't feel like paying for an app that a teen did when he was bored.	04:09
Proteous	just say no to bored teen apps	04:09
GeneralAntilles	mgedmin, any chance you could switch povbot's trigger?	04:09
Paulius	Just saying, I prefer OSS.	04:09
mgedmin	povbot, do you want me to switch your trigger?	04:10
povbot	mgedmin: Error: "do" is not a valid command.	04:10
Paulius	My plan is to wait for the N810 prices to go down.	04:10
Paulius	It's about 370$ right now.	04:10
mgedmin	$360 in amazon; someone said he saw it for $340 somewhere else	04:10
Proteous	I got mine open box from amazon for $325	04:10
GeneralAntilles	Why wait for N810?	04:10
Paulius	370 at Tigerdirect.ca	04:10
Proteous	besides missing the USB cable it was perfect	04:10
GeneralAntilles	N800 is cheap now.	04:10
Proteous	no KEYBOARD!!!!	04:10
Paulius	GeneralAntilles: yeah but N810 has some nice features	04:10
Proteous	KEYBOARDDDDDDDD	04:10
Paulius	like the keyboard, outside screen, GPS, etc.	04:11
mgedmin	GPS sucks	04:11
Paulius	And I hate how the N800 looks.	04:11
mgedmin	keyboard rules	04:11
GeneralAntilles	N800 actually has storage	04:11
mgedmin	n810 is pretty, that's true	04:11
Paulius	mgedmin: Better than no GPS.	04:11
whodat	are there any articles on disassembling an n810	04:11
mgedmin	Paulius: agreed	04:11
mgedmin	you don't have to use it	04:11
mgedmin	(but you have to pay for it)	04:11
mgedmin	whodat: I assume a large hammer would suffice	04:11
Paulius	There are times when I wish I had a GPS.	04:11
Paulius	Even if it's crappy.	04:11
GeneralAntilles	That's what Bluetooth GPS units are for.	04:11
whodat	mgedmin: word	04:12
mgedmin	the GPS is so bad I'm manually tracking my position in the maemo mapper	04:12
Paulius	GeneralAntilles: Well that's an extra cost.	04:12
mgedmin	from the airport/bus station/whatever	04:12
GeneralAntilles	Way, way better than the N810's built-in chip.	04:12
GeneralAntilles	Paulius, yeah, so's an N810. :\	04:12
Paulius	I'm not an american, I don't buy shit just because it's cheap or that I might need in the future.	04:12
GeneralAntilles	:rolleyes:	04:12
mgedmin	I'm not an american	04:12
mgedmin	I buy shit because it's awesome and I have spare cash	04:12
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whodat	lol, very nice n810 docking station: http://bu3sch.de/n810.php	04:16
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whodat	and didn't know the n810 had a serial port	04:18
mgedmin	!!!	04:18
povbot	mgedmin: Error: "!!" is not a valid command.	04:18
mgedmin	darn	04:18
* mgedmin hates supybot sometimes		04:19
GeneralAntilles	whodat, they all do.	04:20
Proteous	!"'`/`	04:20
povbot	Proteous: Error: No closing quotation	04:20
Proteous	!/"	04:21
povbot	Proteous: Error: "/"" is not a valid command.	04:21
Proteous	!"/"	04:21
povbot	Proteous: Error: "/" is not a valid command.	04:21
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mgedmin	! so there	04:23
Proteous	heh	04:24
Proteous	!!	04:24
Proteous	povbot !!!!	04:24
povbot	Proteous: Error: "!!!!" is not a valid command.	04:24
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cyrus___	This may be a more complicated answer then what I am expecting but if someone has a chance, can they look at http://pastebin.com/m2c130674. My question is, this code compiles just fine on my Gentoo system but not within scratchbox. It is complaining about _gtk_image_set_from_file_scaled which is defined in the file misc.c (not on some external library). So why would it compile just fine on Gentoo but not maemo	06:24
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whodat	getting 'proxy authentication error' when trying to use the internet call, any ideas on this?	06:30
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Proteous	probably some sort of proxy auth error	07:50
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RST38h	YouTube has rejected John McCain's request for special treatment when his campaign videos are hit with DMCA takedown notices	08:50
RST38h	hehe	08:50
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doc\|home	how long before he introduces some sort of tax on being involved or using google?	09:05
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RST38h	long enough - I hope he loses the elections	09:06
RST38h	although the guy does have long memory.	09:07
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Khertan_n810	Hi !	09:14
Khertan_n810	maybe someone can help me	09:14
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Khertan_n810	i ve a problem with mmc1 on my n810 swithching constantly in read only	09:15
Khertan_n810	and i don t why	09:15
Khertan_n810	nor i see why	09:15
qwerty12	Check if the card is corrupted	09:15
Khertan_n810	to understand if a log is made somewhere	09:16
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johnx	there's a kernel log available with dmesg	09:16
Khertan_n810	the problem seems related after a heavy metalayer crawler scan	09:16
johnx	probably a corrupted card with errors being triggered by lots of I/O	09:16
Khertan_n810	i don t see anything in dmesg log	09:17
Khertan_n810	anything suspect about io	09:17
johnx	nothing about remounting?	09:17
johnx	You should still try fsck'ing it	09:17
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Khertan_n810	remounting by unloading card	09:18
Khertan_n810	and reinsert it	09:18
johnx	but dmesg doesn't say "remounting" anywhere?	09:19
Khertan_n810	give me right to write for 5 minutes	09:20
Khertan_n810	no fsck on n810	09:20
Khertan_n810	ping ?	09:20
johnx	pong	09:20
bef0rd	pong	09:20
johnx	heh, broadcast ping?	09:21
bef0rd	do you have a computer near? plug it in, and fsck it from there	09:21
johnx	^what he said^	09:21
johnx	or find e2fsprogs from somewhere	09:21
qwerty12	~curse C++	09:21
infobot	May you be reincarnated as a Windows XP administrator, C++ !	09:21
bef0rd	~curse infobot	09:22
infobot	May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, infobot !	09:22
qwerty12	~curse bef0rd for cursing infobot!	09:22
infobot	May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, bef0rd for cursing infobot! !	09:22
bef0rd	:p limited cursing	09:22
qwerty12	yeah :P. I prefer lart	09:23
Khertan_n810	sorry the network connection is lagging	09:25
Khertan_n810	(phone data connection in train)	09:25
johnx	Khertan_n810, e2fsprogs is in extras	09:26
johnx	err...but your card is FAT I bet	09:26
johnx	let's see	09:26
johnx	you want dosfstools in that case	09:26
Khertan_n810	yet FFat	09:27
Khertan_n810	Fucking FAT	09:27
qwerty12	Nokia in their infinite wisdom already included dosfstools with the tablet :)	09:28
qwerty12	fsck.vfat etc is already present on the tablets	09:28
qwerty12	oh shit, remove legal warning patch v2 actually works	09:29
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Khertan_n810	dosfstools is already here	09:30
Khertan_n810	but i don t found commands	09:30
qwerty12	become root	09:30
Khertan_n810	There are differences between boot sector and its backup.	09:31
Khertan_n810	qwerty12: yep :)	09:31
Khertan_n810	i see that by myself	09:31
* Khertan_n810 is a noob		09:31
Khertan_n810	Reclaimed 163 unused clusters (667648 bytes).	09:32
Khertan_n810	ouch	09:32
Khertan_n810	i will make a backup before	09:32
johnx	yes, corrupted was the right guess :)	09:32
* qwerty12 had to run fsck recently too :). Untarring dd-wrt sources on mmc2 with N800 wasn't good idea		09:32
Khertan_n810	yep but this is strange that dmesg doesn t show anything about mounting it in read only	09:33
Khertan_n810	i still don t understand also why everything and everybody and so many products use vfat fs for sdcard as it corrupt itself frequently	09:36
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qwerty12	it's all about windows :)	09:37
Khertan_n810	window can read other fs	09:37
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Khertan_n810	is it easier to implement ?	09:38
qwerty12	Not by default and I don't think support want to spend many hours in the end explaining how to get ext2 support for example on windows	09:38
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Khertan_n810	not by default ?	09:39
Khertan_n810	hum maybe it s the network administartor which enable it at work	09:39
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Khertan_n810	sorry i m not a windows expert	09:39
Khertan_n810	use it only at work	09:40
Khertan_n810	:)	09:41
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Khertan_n810	is there any reason to not use ext3 on maemo for the sd card ?	09:42
benh	Khertan_n810: other than not mounting it on a !linux machine ?	09:42
Khertan_n810	i mean for advanced user not using windows	09:42
benh	:-)	09:42
Khertan_n810	benh: not a problem ffor me	09:43
benh	I guessed	09:43
qwerty12	You usually use ext3 for sd card boots. For some odd reason, if the first partition on the memory card is ext3, it gets classified as corrupt as the app manager :/	09:43
qwerty12	s/app manager/file manager/	09:43
infobot	qwerty12 meant: You usually use ext3 for sd card boots. For some odd reason, if the first partition on the memory card is ext3, it gets classified as corrupt as the file manager :/	09:43
Khertan_n810	what i mean is with maemo can it made any problem	09:43
Khertan_n810	so file manager doesn t read it	09:44
Khertan_n810	any other app have problem with it ?	09:44
Khertan_n810	pictures viewer for examples ?	09:45
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mrp	mrp:	09:47
qwerty12	Khertan_n810: probably. it does use hildon file selector.	09:48
qwerty12	You could make another ext2/3 partition, leaving the 1st one as FAT and store important data on there	09:48
Khertan_n810	yep but i use important data many times a day with hildon file selector	09:50
Khertan_n810	so if hildon file selector don t see the card it ll be a problem	09:51
Khertan_n810	is there a bug in bugzilla	09:51
Khertan_n810	?	09:51
Khertan_n810	anyway thx for help	09:52
mrp	anybody managed to get deblet port to 770 work?	09:52
Khertan_n810	i ll keep vfat	09:52
Khertan_n810	but i ll backup it and reformat it :)	09:53
Khertan_n810	thx	09:53
bef0rd	I don't like hildon file selector :/	09:54
Khertan_n810	yep me too	09:54
Khertan_n810	but gtk one on maemo is difficult to use	09:55
Khertan_n810	bye	09:55
bef0rd	true that.	09:55
Khertan_n810	i m arriving at office	09:55
bef0rd	bye Khertan_n810.	09:55
Khertan_n810	have a good day	09:55
Khertan_n810	and again thx for help	09:55
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baaba	erf, where do i get theoradec for gstreamer again?	10:05
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X-Fade	Morning.	10:10
baaba	i was pretty sure it came with some dep for ogg-support but apparently not :(	10:10
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kulve	it did in the past	10:18
kulve	I dropped all extra from the latest release because I had troubles to get even that working	10:18
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Jaffa	Morning, all	10:30
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solmumaha	morning	10:31
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mrp		10:45
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RST38h	moo, Jaffa	10:48
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mikkov_	solmumaha: duke cd version and shareware levels are now in extras-devel	13:17
solmumaha	great, i'll test them today	13:20
solmumaha	i wonder if shadowwarrior is good enough for extras	13:21
mikkov_	I haven't tested cd version at all	13:21
solmumaha	you own duke3d?	13:22
mikkov_	no	13:22
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lcuk	apt-get uninstall tooth	14:14
lardman	apt-cache search dentist	14:14
lardman	apt-cache search pliers	14:14
MangoFusion	shutdown -h now	14:19
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* Jaffa also undentists. Still got all my teeth, but concern over "small ulcers" on gums in my otherwise good mouth.		14:24
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lardman	Jaffa: not enough alcohol to kill any bacteria in the mouth ;)	14:25
lcuk	[ESCAPE] [ESCAPE] [CTRL+f4] [poserkey]	14:25
lcuk	powerkey^	14:25
Jaffa	lardman: I like that idea :)	14:25
johnx	ah, the poserkey?	14:25
* Jaffa is migrained up at the moment, so probably won't help		14:26
lcuk	:(	14:26
* johnx presses the poserkey, is suddenly dressed like a boyband member		14:26
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* aquatix lets some of his female friends scream hyterically at johnx		14:29
* johnx presses the button again, disables PoserLock		14:30
aquatix	ah, not interested in groupies?	14:30
johnx	just leads to awkwardness, and VD O_o	14:30
aquatix	:)	14:34
lcuk	johnx, tsk tsk groupies are fine as long as you install a firewall andrun a virus scan occasionally	14:35
aquatix	indeed	14:35
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aquatix	might grow boring after a while, but it sure is fun for a while ;)	14:35
johnx	even the best firewalls will get 0wned by a sufficiently skeery virus	14:35
lcuk	only boring if you stick to the same groupie	14:36
macoute_	johnx: ... though I havent seen a real-life example of that happening to iptables :P	14:36
lcuk	like fine wines, you should take a sip from lots of glasses	14:36
johnx	lcuk, aren't you supposed to spit afterwards?	14:36
lcuk	no, but she can	14:37
lcuk	:O	14:37
aquatix	g	14:37
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* johnx pictures lcuk's female partner spitting on him :P		14:38
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macoute_	johnx: have you, btw?	14:38
lcuk	hey - i marked that album as private!	14:38
aquatix	lcuk: indeed you did	14:38
lcuk	i actually dont understand that mentality you know: having an online photo album but setting it as private. if you dont want people seeing your pictures, dont upload them in the first place	14:39
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macoute_	lcuk: :) thats kinda true	14:39
macoute_	and you shouldnt upload yor private pictures to a place with such an EULA as those places usually have	14:40
johnx	eh, I just set pics of other people as private in my flickr album	14:40
johnx	I don't see it as 100% security so much as avoiding being the low hanging fruit	14:41
lcuk	johnx, but havent most of these photo sharing websites had hacking incidents where their albums become public	14:41
johnx	macoute_, no btw, due more to luck in my younger days than anything else	14:41
aquatix	lcuk: why not? maybe such software has login functionality, so you can share pics with family/friends and such?	14:41
aquatix	lcuk: fair enough	14:41
lcuk	heh aquatix, its not just a silly thing	14:42
johnx	lcuk, sure, but and if that happens I'll shrug. I don't expect 100% privacy, just reasonable measures	14:42
johnx	<- pragmatist	14:42
RST38h	ehlo, lcuk, johnx, aquatix	14:42
lcuk	there was a huge archive of myspace photos recently wasnt there	14:42
aquatix	hey RST38h	14:43
lcuk	johnx, i think you use it not for privacy, but for common courtesy - its people that upload actually private images of people in compromising situations	14:43
lcuk	hiya RST38h	14:43
johnx	RST38h, ohai	14:43
aquatix	if i want to share private pics, i show them on one of my devices, or burn a dvd-r	14:43
johnx	lcuk, essentially yes	14:43
aquatix	or cdrom	14:43
johnx	"privacy" is a big grey area	14:44
aquatix	lcuk: yeah, they could better sell those pics to those `amateur nude' sites	14:44
lcuk	i just encode pics as base64 and push to random irc channels	14:44
aquatix	oh, so that's that random line noise you're spewing	14:45
aquatix	:)	14:45
lcuk	heh yeah	14:45
lcuk	thats why my word count is so high	14:45
aquatix	thought it was english	14:45
aquatix	ghehe	14:46
johnx	aquatix, I think english is largely indistinguishable from line noise for the most part...	14:46
lcuk	yeah, well i use ascenography :)	14:46
aquatix	johnx: so true	14:46
lcuk	so whats happenin scene wise then, anything new and exciting to look at?	14:48
* lcuk quite likes the idea of this video streaming thingy		14:49
* RST38h wonders whether he should debug the remote play feature to liven things up		14:49
lcuk	remote play - of the movie thing, or your games?	14:50
RST38h	games	14:50
lcuk	wicked, by remote play do you mean ip to ip	14:51
RST38h	yes	14:51
RST38h	it is already implemented too	14:51
RST38h	just needs debugging	14:51
lcuk	yeah, but dont firewalls and general NAT type problems get in the way	14:52
RST38h	they do: at least one side has to have a valid open ip address	14:52
johnx	lcuk, that's what she said	14:52
lcuk	heh	14:53
RST38h	OIL $68.50 hehe	14:54
johnx	isn't that down a bit from a while ago?	14:54
RST38h	Yea, like 50% down	14:55
johnx	heh	14:55
* RST38h expects cheap airline tickets now		14:55
johnx	ah the wonders of supply and demand	14:55
johnx	gah. I already bought mine :/	14:55
RST38h	Delta owes me a free ticket from Europe to US and back	14:56
johnx	just googled for a handy oil prices chart and got linked to an article from 2000 about oil prices soaring to $30	14:56
Sts\|office	johnx: my beagleboard finally works \o/	14:56
Sts\|office	(now to put deblet on it..)	14:56
johnx	Sts\|office, w00t!	14:56
johnx	I'm looking at gpe/matchbox	14:56
Sts\|office	turns out it was a cable problem	14:57
johnx	it flies on my n800 since it frees up so much RAM	14:57
johnx	ah the best kind of problem	14:57
Sts\|office	seems like my old mobo connector was miswired, so	14:57
ShadowJK_	miswired how?	14:58
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Sts\|office	ShadowJK_: up/down switched or something	14:59
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RST38h	johnx: ah, that was the time...	15:01
johnx	RST38h, I drove so. damn. much. in the summer of 2000	15:02
johnx	Sts\|office, up/down switched? did you have it upside down? :P	15:03
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Andy80	hi all	15:04
johnx	hi Andy80	15:05
RST38h	johnx: so, it was YOU who caused the spike in demand for the oil? =)	15:05
Sts\|office	johnx: well the electronics workshop here rewired my connector, it seems	15:05
Sts\|office	not sure what they did	15:06
Andy80	since os upgrade is totally broken (flash plugin, maemo documentation ecc...), I've to re-flash the device. The latest available firmware is this: RX-44_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin, isn't there any newer firmware?	15:06
Sts\|office	RX-44?	15:06
Andy80	do I have to install that and then use the OTA upgrade?	15:06
Sts\|office	oh, right, nm	15:06
ShadowJK_	does beagleboard have reverse polarity protection?	15:06
johnx	RST38h, nah. I was driving an 82 honda accord(ian). I was getting 30 miles/gallon :P	15:06
Andy80	Sts\|office: I've N810	15:06
Sts\|office	Andy80: windows updater may have more recent one	15:06
* RST38h weeps remembering '82 Accord		15:07
RST38h	[never drove it though]	15:07
Sts\|office	ShadowJK_: no clue, it i didn't break it	15:07
johnx	RST38h, fond rememberance? or utter hate?	15:07
Andy80	Sts\|office: if I don't want or I cannot use windows, can I install 2008.23 and then use the OTA upgrade?	15:07
ShadowJK_	beagleboard looks cute, I want one, but I don't know what I'd use it for :)	15:07
johnx	Andy80, yes. normally the upgrade process works fine.	15:07
ShadowJK_	are there any gl drivers for linux for beagle...	15:08
RST38h	johnx: rather fond rememberance: it was produced before all those idiots decided that all 90s cars should look like Ford Taurus	15:08
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RST38h	So, '82 Accord still looked like a car, not like a mobile sofa	15:08
NeoWatch	morning guys... my n800 seems it has a hardware issue... it keeps scrolling down by it self so i guess i have to send it to the waranty right?	15:09
RST38h	Sounds like the directional pad is broken	15:09
johnx	ShadowJK_, I believe so, opengl es2	15:09
gomiam	NeoWatch: ? that has happened sometimes. Have you tried clicking all the arrows repeatedly ;-)	15:10
johnx	RST38h, yeah, I loved that thing. it never died either...	15:10
NeoWatch	RST38h talking to me bud?	15:10
NeoWatch	which arrows gomiam ?	15:10
Andy80	johnx: can you load this page: http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware ? it's empty for me :(	15:10
RST38h	johnx: neither Hondas nor Toyotas die. They wear out like slippers.	15:10
solmumaha	Andy80: refresh it	15:10
RST38h	Although you can probably kill a Honda if its timing belt breaks...	15:11
johnx	empty here too	15:11
johnx	RST38h, ek1 wasn't interference, IIRC	15:11
aquatix	RST38h: slippers wear out pretty fast here ;)	15:11
Andy80	solmumaha: I'm trying but it doesn't load, it's a blank page	15:11
gomiam	NeoWatch: well, the buttons that you use to move around.	15:11
RST38h	johnx: they added this (mis)feature later?	15:11
solmumaha	Andy80: worked for me	15:12
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NeoWatch	gomiam hold on let me try	15:18
gomiam	NeoWatch: ok	15:18
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NeoWatch	what pisses me off is that i just bought it 2 month a go and i got to the point that i depend on it so much that i feel like a drug addict now without it	15:21
NeoWatch	hmmm weird... i turned it on and looks fine now	15:21
NeoWatch	!!!!	15:21
gomiam	XD	15:23
gomiam	Murphy's law corollary: some random person who is just passing by will find the solution to the problem after everybody else has spent hours thinking about it ;-)	15:24
NeoWatch	i think the repositories are very limitted and the device too... hopefully someday it will develop more features	15:24
gomiam	are the repositories limited? How so, NeoWatch?	15:24
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Sts\|office	NeoWatch: maybe your screen protector is applied in the wrong way	15:25
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Sts\|office	i had similar issue	15:25
Sts\|office	johnx: btw i found methods we may use to determine how bad deblet is at keeping battery, - ondemand cpufreq keeps statistics over how long time it spends in each cpu freq, and also using iostat and such	15:30
Sts\|office	i have some stats waiting to be analyzed	15:30
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Sts\|office	and vmstat, since it counts idle cycles	15:32
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lopz	hola	15:52
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sampo	hello	15:52
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sampo	is it possible somehow to change font size inside gtk combobox ? if is, how ?	15:53
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inz	sampo, static void _smaller_text(gpointer cell, gpointer user_data) { g_object_set(cell, "scale", (gdouble)0.75, "scale-set", TRUE, NULL); } ... GList *cells = gtk_cell_layout_get_cells(GTK_CELL_LAYOUT(combo)); g_list_foreach(cells, _smaller_text, NULL); g_list_free(cells);	16:07
inz	sampo, or something similar might work	16:07
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Jaffa	BTW, anyone who was sponsored for the summit: have you been reimbursed yet?	16:33
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X-Fade	http://vimeo.com/1981468	16:36
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GeneralAntilles	lardman, ping.	17:47
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whodat	getting 'proxy authentication error' when trying to use the internet call, any ideas?	17:49
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Jaffa	whodat: Silly question - are you behind an authenticated proxy?	17:57
whodat	yeah, but i entered the proxy user/pass	17:58
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Jaffa	And browser works?	17:59
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Jaffa	Could be a bug in the Internet Call app not handling proxy auth properly	17:59
Robot101	I didn't even realise that was an error	18:00
Robot101	whodat: when does it happen specifically?	18:00
Robot101	whodat: are you using SIP or GTalk?	18:00
whodat	SIP	18:01
whodat	yeah i think its a bug, doesnt like this proxy server or something	18:01
whodat	i use the same user/pass on another SIP client, it works	18:01
whodat	robot: i saw the error after you told me how to turn logging on a few days ago	18:03
Stskeeps	Jaffa: the irony is that the flash thing is so horridly horridly easy I don't understand why noone has done it yet.	18:04
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Stskeeps	Jaffa: (it works under deblet, enough said?)	18:05
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Jaffa	Stskeeps: :)	18:05
qwerty12	Hrm, anyone want to fix a dodgy patch?	18:06
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GeneralAntilles	I wish we could have just one more line in the application menu.	18:13
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qwerty12	Here's what I've got so far. http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/screenies/nokia_suck_dick_with_their_legal_bullshit.png . I can save and load the value successfully, but my problem comes in with the way I'm integrating that value when it comes to the actual install part. But I can't program anyway so if I cant figure it out, I don't give a shit :)	18:19
GeneralAntilles	Ha. . . .	18:19
GeneralAntilles	What about Red Pill and the settings dialog?	18:19
Jaffa	Isn't that the Red Pill settings dialogue?	18:20
qwerty12	That is the red pill settings dialog. I figure it would go in nokia's favour if a person has to do a "hack" to disable it	18:20
GeneralAntilles	The settings dialog doesn't appear under Blue Pill anymore in Diablo.	18:20
Jaffa	If so, using Red Pill mode to hide the setting is going to encourage more Red Pill use, when we're trying to minimise it ;-)	18:20
qwerty12	Shouldn't be hard to bring it back, I figure even me (who isn't a programmer) can bring it back :)	18:21
GeneralAntilles	The Red Pill check needs to be moved from the dialog to the individual settings.	18:21
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GeneralAntilles	More nonsense from tz. . . .	18:30
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Sts\|office	GeneralAntilles: you basically put in a uimage + linux kernel on fat partition and did standard linux boot when you did deblet on beagle i assume?	18:32
GeneralAntilles	Yes	18:32
GeneralAntilles	I was using TI's reference kernel	18:33
GeneralAntilles	since it's the only one that works reliably with OTG at the moment.	18:33
GeneralAntilles	Just yanked Ångstrom's bootargs and changed the partition.	18:33
GeneralAntilles	Worked fine.	18:33
GeneralAntilles	You'll also need to put the appropriate MLO on the card.	18:34
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Stskeeps	nod	18:35
* Stskeeps glances over at the beagleboard		18:35
Stskeeps	-finally- got a serial conn	18:35
Stskeeps	turns out those yanking from mobo about connector doesn't always work :P	18:35
GeneralAntilles	Well, you can just move pins around on the DB9 port.	18:36
Stskeeps	yeah, the electronics shop at uni patched it up (had someone else do the initial work stuff to get cables and such :P)	18:37
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Stskeeps	i saw earlier that atom boards are cheaper than beagles.. that was kinda frightening	18:40
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Stskeeps	(with cpu	18:40
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Stskeeps	ok. play with two very cheap ipaq 3630 i got, beagleboard, or 770 port problems.	18:44
Stskeeps	.. or deblet	18:44
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NeoWatch	guys where can i get more repositories for my n800 ?	18:48
Stskeeps	extras and maybe extras-devel (and tools) are all you should optimally need	18:49
GeneralAntilles	~extras	18:49
infobot	it has been said that extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras	18:49
qwerty12	Having more repositories will not make your n800 more pimped. The question you should be asking is where can I find a package if it's not in extras or extras-devel	18:49
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, well, economies of scale and all that. ;)	18:49
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GeneralAntilles	Atom is essentially a really shitty x86, while OMAP3 is a top-of-the-line ARM. ;)	18:50
Stskeeps	true	18:51
GeneralAntilles	Besides, an Atom doesn't have any awesome factor.	18:52
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Stskeeps	we might switch on work to that (sadly) as we hoped to be able to do wifi ap using usb or the likes.. powered usb didn't matter, but current support in linux is .. shite, SDIO was also an option	18:53
Stskeeps	there's libertas but can't find any actual sdio with it on	18:53
GeneralAntilles	Interesting	18:54
Stskeeps	we're basically trying to create a low cost infrastructure for pervasive computing in the home, for healthcare purpose	18:55
Stskeeps	s	18:55
GeneralAntilles	Why not just an off-the-shelf router?	18:55
GeneralAntilles	Gotta be cheaper than rolling your own.	18:55
NeoWatch	qwerty12 i see... the thing is i find the N800 like too simple... like when u have a some food and its missing salt and pepper... the food is in there but its missing that nice extra taste	18:55
GeneralAntilles	Thus:	18:56
GeneralAntilles	~extras	18:56
infobot	extras is, like, http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras	18:56
NeoWatch	i am about to throw this damn itouch trought the windows... it connect online everywhere except home	18:56
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: yeah, but we're hoping to include stuff like s-video for training videos and such too..	18:56
GeneralAntilles	or http://downloads.maemo.org if you want screenshots	18:56
Stskeeps	and that's better in same box	18:56
Stskeeps	and we did start out with off the shelf routers	18:56
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johnx	NeoWatch, for excitement look up extras and extras-devel and then start lurking on ITT in the apps section	19:02
whodat	Robot101?	19:02
johnx	Stskeeps, rolling your own router-ish thing? it just needs wifi AP and s-video out, right?	19:02
Robot101	whodat: hm?	19:03
Robot101	whodat: can you save the whole tp-sofiasip log into a file and put it somewhere?	19:03
Robot101	whodat: mikhailz on #telepathy might be able to help you with it (he's the tp-sofiasip lead dev)	19:03
tiagoOM	Does anyone know how to browse available services of a bluetooth connection on maemo? I want to do the same as 'sdptool browse $MAC' does on Ubuntu. Is there sdptool for Maemo? If yes, in which package?	19:03
Robot101	(oh he's offline atm)	19:03
whodat	robot101: yaeh.. i have it on pastebin already but i forget what the url is lol... cant seem to find a way to search for it	19:03
johnx	Stskeeps, I assume you've heard of the neuros OSD?	19:03
whodat	robot: okay I will try to hit him up tonight after work.	19:04
qwerty12	tiagoOM: sdptest is in bluez-utils-test	19:04
Stskeeps	johnx: wifi AP, s-video and .. maybe usb	19:05
Stskeeps	usb important	19:05
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whodat	thx robot	19:05
johnx	Stskeeps, and have you found an acceptable wifi adapter that can be plugged into usb?	19:05
Stskeeps	johnx: not that works with wifi ap mode :P	19:06
johnx	sad	19:06
Stskeeps	the usb is for 3g really	19:06
Stskeeps	well it exists but the drivers are shady	19:06
johnx	completely by accident my wifi cf card has host ability	19:06
GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, find a way to get the company to pay for developing some real drivers? :P	19:06
Stskeeps	GeneralAntilles: mm	19:07
Stskeeps	johnx: looks interesting though	19:07
johnx	just one more community to follow, and one more gadget to learn about :P	19:08
Stskeeps	hey, i'm already in many boats :P	19:08
whodat	does anyone make a usb adapter for the n810 with the female end.. without having to use a long cable..	19:08
Stskeeps	johnx: fully hackable box?	19:09
johnx	http://wiki.neurostechnology.com/index.php/Neuros_OSD	19:09
johnx	pretty hackable, yeah	19:09
johnx	I think there might be a closed driver or two?	19:09
Stskeeps	k	19:10
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tiagoOM	thanks qwerty12	19:21
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smoe	hello!	19:47
johnx	hi	19:47
smoe	i'm a new user of the N810 and i have problems installing openssh via deb-files	19:47
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qwerty12	It's in a repo :)	19:47
GeneralAntilles	Just grab it from Extras.	19:47
GeneralAntilles	~extras	19:47
infobot	hmm... extras is http://wiki.maemo.org/Extras	19:47
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smoe	here i have no wlan, so i downloaded the deb-files and copied them via usb on the nokia. when i doubleclick the file openssh-common... it says "application incompatible.." or so	19:49
qwerty12	dpkg -i them. you'll need root	19:50
GeneralAntilles	dpkg -i <path to .deb>	19:50
GeneralAntilles	~rootsh	19:50
infobot	rumour has it, rootsh is an easy way to get root and it's found here: http://maemo.org/downloads/product/OS2008/rootsh/	19:50
smoe	rootsh ... ok i try	19:50
qwerty12	also, I think they depend on each other so install the debs at the same time with the one dpkg line	19:50
smoe	no, when i try openssh-client is explicitly says 'depends on openssh-common'	19:50
qwerty12	exactly. install openssh-common and openssh-client at the same time	19:51
smoe	i cant without root privileges and i need internet for installing rootsh (?) and i need openssh for internet via usb :-/	19:52
qwerty12	lol... save this one to a memory card: http://repository.maemo.org/extras-devel/pool/diablo/free/r/rootsh/rootsh_1.4_armel.deb . Install via application manager	19:52
smoe	ok, thanks :) i 'll try..	19:53
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johnx	are you sure you need openssh for usb networking?	19:54
smoe	so the howto says	19:55
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johnx	this one? http://wiki.maemo.org/USB_networking	19:55
qwerty12	nay, no ssh mention there	19:56
smoe	oh, an new one...	19:56
* GeneralAntilles nominates qwerty12 to clean up that article.		19:56
qwerty12	GeneralAntilles: I honestly would offer but I don't even use USB Networking as I can't get it to work. I'm a g_serial fan	19:56
smoe	what the...	19:57
GeneralAntilles	Thanks for the other cleanup, by the way. :)	19:57
slonopotamus	so. i've built svn with deps on my n800. in right world that would be enough. however. for various reasons packages fail to build on autobuilder. so i need to continue hacking. this is ugly. main package goal is to work on device, not to build in broken emulator.	19:57
qwerty12	GeneralAntilles: No problems, thanks :). I'll try and add appropriate things where needed, though I don't know much (read: any) wiki syntax and my grammar can be dodgy :/	19:58
slonopotamus	good emulator - emulator that is indistinguishable from original device	19:58
GeneralAntilles	qwerty12, bookmark: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:Cheatsheet	19:59
slonopotamus	this makes me sad	19:59
GeneralAntilles	I still think they should get some Beagles or overos for the autobuilder.	20:00
qwerty12	GeneralAntilles: Ah! A quick look tells me this will be very useful indeed, thanks!	20:00
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* GeneralAntilles still mixes up internal and external link syntax.		20:00
johnx	GeneralAntilles, heh...that's what debian does	20:01
GeneralAntilles	For their builder?	20:01
GeneralAntilles	What Mojo does.	20:01
johnx	GeneralAntilles, yup, all debian autobuilders are real machines	20:01
johnx	GeneralAntilles, they have the m68k port built on millions of little m68ks	20:02
slonopotamus	one day i'll port gentoo on n8x0 and sdk hell will end.	20:02
GeneralAntilles	lol	20:02
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johnx	GeneralAntilles, it's halfway between funny and insane. The poor little m68ks have real issues keeping up with people uploading new source	20:03
johnx	slonopotamus, or you could just use debian ... and not have to worry about things constantly needing to be compiled	20:03
slonopotamus	i'm ok using gentoo on desktop and servers. maybe using it on tablet is not-so-bad idea? :)	20:05
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johnx	slonopotamus, sure, depends on how much time you have on your hands and whether you want to use your tablet or watch it compile things	20:05
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ShadowJK_	maybe it could compile in a background xterm	20:07
ShadowJK_	and suspend compiling if not on external power	20:08
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johnx	which doesn't solve one of my core requirements: instant gratification. :)	20:08
slonopotamus	i spend much time away from desktop, but with tablet. so destop sdk is a poor choice	20:09
johnx	then debian on the tablet is a perfect choice :)	20:09
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Stskeeps	slonopotamus: http://nosocomia.com:8099/blog/index.html <- person who tried gentoo on tablet :P	20:10
slonopotamus	maemo xchat sucks. no copy/paste	20:11
GeneralAntilles	Copy/paste works fine here. . . .	20:11
slonopotamus	oh	20:11
slonopotamus	it copies on selection	20:11
slonopotamus	sorry then	20:11
ShadowJK_	can anyone else copy from the address line in microb? I can't, I can select it, but when I lift stylus, selection goes away :)	20:12
ShadowJK_	It used to pop up with the address selected :/	20:12
johnx	Stskeeps, interesting. I didn't know anyone got that far	20:13
slonopotamus	selecting is enough. it's in clipboard.	20:14
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ShadowJK_	slonopotamus, not with microb	20:14
Stskeeps	johnx: think he went slowly mad if you read it closer	20:14
Stskeeps	but it's still interesting	20:14
johnx	Stskeeps, yeah, it is. "There but for the grace of god..." and all that	20:15
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qwerty12	Gentoo drives you to the point of madness. That's why there is debian. :)	20:15
slonopotamus	hey	20:16
bematic1	ehlo	20:16
slonopotamus	i'm not mad	20:16
GeneralAntilles	itt	20:16
bematic1	i'm currently trying to chat using irc protocol with my n810	20:17
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bematic1	i'm currently using rtcom beta	20:17
GeneralAntilles	XChat from Extras-devel is better.	20:17
johnx	qwerty12, I didn't hear of it until after debian, hence my current allegiances	20:17
bematic1	i'm connected to freenode	20:17
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Stskeeps	johnx: then again, he would have a fully optimized dist :P	20:17
sp3000	clearly	20:17
bematic1	but i can't configure a contact to chat with	20:17
bematic1	do you know an issue for ?	20:18
johnx	Stskeeps, gentoo is madness. check out angstrom before that	20:18
slonopotamus	Stskeeps, that man is strange. why does he need scratchbox at all?	20:18
johnx	Stskeeps, or poky	20:18
Stskeeps	johnx: i have seen gentoo completely and utterly wreck a server, so, not again	20:18
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: cos building on your qemu emu is not fast	20:18
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Stskeeps	i really should try with a matching gcc distcc + qemu	20:19
Stskeeps	and see how sane it is	20:19
qwerty12	cross compiling the "normal" way drives me mad :)	20:19
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Stskeeps	qwerty12: capn_fish or someone came up with the idea of taking a qemu armel box, and DISTCC'ing to a codesourcery chain in PATH on a desktop machine	20:20
Stskeeps	acheiving faster compiling but true emulation too	20:20
Stskeeps	so no scratchbox insanities	20:20
slonopotamus	Stskeeps, why qemu at all? crosscompile base system, boot and build everything on tablet directly	20:20
qwerty12	slonopotamus: compiling on tablet is slow. sometimes, watchdog jumps in tood	20:21
johnx	ha! then you could renice qemu to make it behave :)	20:21
qwerty12	s/tood/too/	20:21
infobot	qwerty12 meant: slonopotamus: compiling on tablet is slow. sometimes, watchdog jumps in too	20:21
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: what qwerty12 said	20:21
johnx	qwerty12, with enough swap, you'll never see watchdog, but yes, terrifyingly slow	20:21
Stskeeps	i prefer a qemu cos it's like 50% faster than my tablet	20:22
johnx	slonopotamus, I think you vastly underestimate how slow we're talking about	20:22
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: though, if you distcc, you -could- do it on tablet	20:22
Stskeeps	admittedly	20:22
Stskeeps	so it takes the hard cc jobs other place	20:22
johnx	configure, linking, installing would still take a long time	20:22
slonopotamus	man, i saw your qemu running 200x slower then my n800 on libdb build	20:22
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: but then there's the whole "sdk packages don't belong on tablet"	20:22
GeneralAntilles	"your"	20:22
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GeneralAntilles	slonopotamus, we're not maemo.org :)	20:23
bematic	yes it's working	20:23
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Stskeeps	slonopotamus: i'm not speaking of scratchbox qemu insanity	20:23
Stskeeps	i'm speaking fully emulated qemu	20:23
Stskeeps	not running apps, but a whole os	20:24
Stskeeps	:P	20:24
slonopotamus	i _don't_ have much time at desktop. wife, children, etc. so slow is better than nothing.	20:24
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slonopotamus	and slow is better than broken emylation	20:24
johnx	slonopotamus, if you had a choice would you take fast over slow?	20:24
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slonopotamus	fast or compatible but slow ;)	20:25
Stskeeps	while on the fly you could always unset your DISTCC variables	20:25
slonopotamus	i prefer compatibility	20:25
bematic	/list	20:25
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: i'm not sure what your argument is	20:25
johnx	slonopotamus, debian is faster and more compatible :)	20:25
johnx	especially if you have to start with an armv4l distro	20:26
johnx	(in gentoo I mean)	20:26
slonopotamus	building and running in one env is more stable than having two envs, one for building and one for running	20:27
qwerty12	lcuk: btw, if I could get screenshots of liqbase, would you be interested?	20:27
slonopotamus	i'm building fresh cross-system	20:27
johnx	slonopotamus, I'm booted into debian on my n800 right now. I totally agree with you	20:27
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: if you find a good way to optimize base debian system i'm all ears	20:28
slonopotamus	Stskeeps, what optimizations you need? size?	20:28
slonopotamus	johnx, deblet?	20:29
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: armv5/v6 optimization, not armv4t	20:29
johnx	slonopotamus, yup	20:29
Stskeeps	so see if it works better	20:29
slonopotamus	johnx, can it build?	20:29
johnx	slonopotamus, oh yes	20:29
johnx	very much so	20:29
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johnx	having done several days worth of compiles I am in a unique position to imagine how long it will take to bootstrap gentoo on one of these things	20:30
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slonopotamus	Stskeeps, forget about armv4t. i'm going to do fresh crosscompile.	20:31
Stskeeps	k	20:31
Stskeeps	i'll be interested to see if it really have any benefits	20:31
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slonopotamus	maybe i'll fail. but i have a right and will to try ;)	20:32
johnx	slonopotamus, if you'd turn on VFP at the same time, that would be interesting too :)	20:32
Stskeeps	yeah	20:32
Stskeeps	(ignoring 770s for now..)	20:32
johnx	I think that's where the biggest speed-up is to be had	20:32
johnx	Stskeeps, 770s are well served by debian eabi	20:32
slonopotamus	jonhx, what option enables it?	20:32
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orangey	hey all!	20:33
johnx	hmm...	20:33
johnx	hi orangey	20:33
orangey	I'm having significant trouble getting SIP to work on an n810. Any help pages on configuring various services?	20:33
slonopotamus	jonhx, i'm thinking of arm-none-linux-gnueabi target.	20:33
orangey	for example, neither callcentric nor wengo are working out for me.	20:33
trickie	slonopotamus: you gonna build a stage1 on the tablet?	20:34
trickie	slonopotamus: if you do, can i have one? :)	20:34
slonopotamus	trickie, first goal is to crosscompile bootable stage. if i do that, everything will be possible on tablet	20:35
qwerty12_N800	slonopotamus, -mfpu=vfp as a cflag	20:35
trickie	slonopotamus: have you got very far? a toolchain?	20:35
johnx	slonopotamus, this seems relevant: http://tuomas.kulve.fi/blog/2008/05/17/gcc-options-and-floating-point/	20:35
trickie	i tried with a toolchain i built with crossdev, and didn't get very far	20:36
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: feel free to steal any tricks from deblet to get stuff showing (.. credited obviously), all source is at http://trac.tspre.org/svn/deblet/trunk/packages/	20:36
Stskeeps	if you succeed in compiling :P	20:37
slonopotamus	trickie, i have almost complete 'system' (without perl). gonna try to boot on this weekend.	20:37
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: if it's gentoo you're going for.. debian optimized is still interesting though	20:37
trickie	slonopotamus: nice	20:37
slonopotamus	johnx, thanks for link	20:37
slonopotamus	trickie, anyway, if i'll have any progress, will post on itt	20:38
NeoWatch	guys where i can get a good radio application for my n800?	20:39
Stskeeps	"fm radio"? :P	20:40
Stskeeps	(which is decent, imho)	20:40
slonopotamus	;)	20:40
* qwerty12_N800 prefers mediabox. fmradio has more features but at least connecting a bluetooth headset still works		20:40
NeoWatch	is it only mine or the n800 use the headphones as antenna? cuz i cant get any reception	20:41
trickie	slonopotamus: ok, cool... good luck!	20:41
GeneralAntilles	Headphones are antenna.	20:41
NeoWatch	ohh ok	20:41
NeoWatch	i need to get me a small keyboard and a bluetooth headset for it	20:41
slonopotamus	qwerty, 'Looks like the default for -mfpu is vfp and the default for -mfloat-abi is soft.'	20:41
slonopotamus	qwerty, so defaults are ok?	20:42
qwerty12_N800	slonopotamus, yep. they seem to be used by everyone & maemo policy manual mentions them	20:43
GeneralAntilles	NeoWatch, the Apple keyboard is nice if you don't need folding.	20:43
GeneralAntilles	NeoWatch, and I like the Plantronics headsets.	20:43
Stskeeps	johnx: btw 770 port is progressing nicely, seems like the steps are correct somewhat	20:43
orangey	anybody have maemo running successfully with callcentric?	20:44
slonopotamus	qwerty, then i'm building with vfp enabled	20:44
johnx	Stskeeps, sounds great! I bet gpe/matchbox would be nice and light for it	20:45
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orangey	what's RTCOMM?	20:46
orangey	is that the stock SIP software with Maemo?	20:46
slonopotamus	btw	20:46
slonopotamus	i think i'll be able to use restriicted packages	20:47
GeneralAntilles	orangey, the communication framework.	20:47
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slonopotamus	because gentoo doesn't bundle them into ebuilds, so they will be downloaded from nokia repo	20:47
slonopotamus	;)	20:47
orangey	GeneralAntilles: I'm trying to figure out where to get some help with regards to my sip accounts.	20:48
orangey	what should I be searching for? rtcomm? sofia?	20:48
GeneralAntilles	orangey, did you try the rtcomm beta?	20:49
GeneralAntilles	It adds a lot more account presets.	20:49
orangey	OK, I'd like to do that. Let me look around to see how to install the beta. brb	20:50
GeneralAntilles	The meta-package should be in Extras-devel.	20:51
orangey	what's red-pill mode, btw?	20:51
NeoWatch	hmm i installed the extra-devel and all my repositories dissapeared	20:51
johnx	orangey, it removes some restrictions on installing packages	20:52
johnx	orangey, so it sounds like "expert mode" but it can cause the app manager to choose the wrong packages if you leave it on while doing a system upgrade	20:52
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orangey	ok. so I hve to be judicious, it sounds like	20:54
GeneralAntilles	Guess not everything is in Extras-devel yet.	20:54
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slonopotamus	anyone wants svn & deps almost-buildable-in-scratchbox source packages? :)	20:56
orangey	so, does rtcomm support ICQ and so on, then?	20:56
GeneralAntilles	Yes	20:57
lcuk	qwerty12_N800, how?	20:58
qwerty12_N800	lcuk, n800 emulation	20:58
orangey	GeneralAntilles: cool.	20:58
orangey	GeneralAntilles: a last question, then. is this sufficient: http://rtcomm.garage.maemo.org/	20:58
orangey	or must I really do the beta?	20:58
lcuk	i was talkin to hrw at the summit and the emulator was not a total emulation and did not support xv	20:59
GeneralAntilles	Grabbing haze from the Collabora repo should do you.	20:59
qwerty12_N800	lcuk, shit :(, my bad	20:59
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: I managed to get a bunch of repos removed from gronmayer btw. And more to come.	20:59
lcuk	dont worry, ill just have to write the png export, its required anyway	20:59
qole_	so how do I take stuff out of the repos? What's the opposite of dput?	20:59
X-Fade	qole_: Ehm that is: "Mail the maintainer" :)	21:00
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, keep on fighting the good fight. ;)	21:00
X-Fade	qole_: Or tell me to do it ;)	21:00
slonopotamus	Stskeeps, what did you mean by 'to get stuff showing'?	21:01
lcuk	evenin qole_ X-Fade btw	21:01
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: I really need some help on the categories battle. Can the council help me please? :)	21:01
lcuk	and gen+qwerty lol	21:01
X-Fade	hi lcuk.	21:01
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qwerty12_N800	lol, hi lcuk	21:01
qole_	Well, it's my package. I can upload stuff with dput, but what if I want to erase a package?	21:01
GeneralAntilles	X-Fade, I'll rally the troops and make a blog post.	21:02
GeneralAntilles	See if that gets anything rolling.	21:02
slonopotamus	qole_, then you lost :)	21:02
X-Fade	GeneralAntilles: >	21:02
GeneralAntilles	qole_, don't upload it in the first place. ;)	21:02
X-Fade	https://wiki.maemo.org/Package_Categories	21:02
X-Fade	qole_: Removing packages must be seen as a last resort.	21:03
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: console, .. i can strongly recommend using my linuxrc bootmenu	21:03
qole_	GeneralAntlles: helpful as always	21:03
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: it makes things a lot easier :P	21:03
X-Fade	qole_: And only to be done for broken packages or things that violate someting.	21:03
GeneralAntilles	qole_, well that's the truth.	21:03
GeneralAntilles	:shrug:	21:03
slonopotamus	Stskeeps, what's the problem with console?	21:04
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: well on tablets console doesn't appear immediately but i think it's documented in that blog	21:04
Stskeeps	like, you have to load fbcon and such :P	21:04
Stskeeps	and set fb update modes	21:04
Stskeeps	then there's some tricks with avoiding some initfs crap	21:04
Stskeeps	(i recommend looking at deblet-boot-basics)	21:04
qole_	X-Fade: so the repos just accumulate every version of every app ever uploaded?	21:05
slonopotamus	Stskeeps, ok, will look	21:05
slonopotamus	Stskeeps, thanks a lot	21:05
X-Fade	qole_: Currently, yes. But normally there would be some automatic cleanup too.	21:06
X-Fade	qole_: The idea is to have a few versions (2 or 3) in the repo and remove the older ones.	21:06
lcuk	qole_, what did u upload?	21:07
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qole_	I broke extras-devel for a few hours last week with a broken package, it would have been nice to be able to delete my package	21:08
lcuk	heh :D	21:08
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lcuk	that was when you told it to install the world wasnt it	21:09
trickie	Stskeeps: or you can just build a kernel with the fb turned on and manual updates off	21:09
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X-Fade	qole_: Well, it shouldn't have ended up in the repo.	21:09
X-Fade	qole_: We plan to do more tests and checks.	21:09
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qole_	I found I could fix it by re-uploading a fixed pkg with the same version	21:09
X-Fade	qole_: No, that breaks it too. But in a different way.	21:09
GeneralAntilles	Always, always, always increment your version number.	21:10
X-Fade	That can cause the 'Size mismatch' errors.	21:10
qole_	Long story, but I'm uploading my .deb to non-free because I have binary bits and some vala code from bundyo	21:11
X-Fade	3v1l non-free	21:12
qole_	I needed to fix my mistake; extras-devel was unusable; re-uploading fixed the repo	21:12
X-Fade	qole_: Yeah, for non-free there are other scripts as you bypass the autobuilder.	21:13
GeneralAntilles	qole_, talk to X-Fade if you break things.	21:13
X-Fade	But good that you started with extras-devel as that one is expected to break sometimes.	21:14
qole_	since then, I've been incrementing the version, and my package is a good citizen :)	21:14
qole_	of course I started with extras-devel; I'm ignorant enough that I was sure to break something!	21:15
X-Fade	That is the problem we have with non-free. If we offer it things can break more easily, if we don't: people go elsewhere.	21:16
X-Fade	So we must hope that people care enough to not break things all the time.	21:16
GeneralAntilles	konttori still needs to be harassed about UKMP	21:17
qole_	so the official position on removing a package by myself is, "you can't"?	21:17
GeneralAntilles	He seems to have missed my email.	21:17
slonopotamus	Stskeeps, that guy's main problem is that he started from an ancient stage i think.	21:17
X-Fade	qole_: Yes. For now.	21:17
johnx	slonopotamus, I think he was under the impression there wasn't a more recent one	21:18
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qole_	X-Fade: I suspect you'll be hearing from me, then :D	21:18
Stskeeps	trickie: yeah, but that breaks horridly occasionally :P	21:19
X-Fade	qole_: You know where to find me.	21:19
qole_	how do I fix my nick w/ maemo xchat?	21:19
slonopotamus	johnx, where i can find a list of all gcc-supported cpus? all these arm, armeb, armv4t, armv5t?	21:19
X-Fade	/nick yourname	21:19
qole_	stupid _	21:19
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johnx	slonopotamus, that's a good question :)	21:20
qole	better	21:20
slonopotamus	johnx, maybe there's even armv6t?	21:20
slonopotamus	johnx, and what's that 't' at all...	21:21
johnx	"thumb" I believe	21:21
johnx	don't quote me	21:21
slonopotamus	;)	21:21
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slonopotamus	i can't google the list :(	21:22
johnx	maybe I can find something	21:23
johnx	I saw a list once	21:23
johnx	(and I'm waiting for builds anyways)	21:23
* lcuk bangs head on wall @ crashing nokias - why dont same devices all act the same		21:24
Stskeeps	johnx: http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/ondemand_stats.pdf - ondemand stats on how much time spent in each state (y), x (time in minutes)	21:24
Stskeeps	johnx: kinda interesting cos 266mhz/333mhz is hardly used	21:25
Stskeeps	(i should really do that graph with deltas	21:25
lcuk	Stskeeps, not really, at 166 it realises it needs more oooomph so ramps right up	21:25
lcuk	or at least a log scale	21:26
johnx	lcuk, in your experiment with leaving it in performance mode, it didn't make much difference in idle power usage, right?	21:26
lcuk	its not an experiment, its a way of life	21:26
lcuk	i barely ever change down	21:26
Stskeeps	living in the fast lane?	21:27
Stskeeps	how's your battery performance?	21:27
lcuk	no problems - it still very rarely dies overnight, but it has done that from day 1 and i think thats related to network chip more than anythin	21:27
lcuk	and it lasts perfectly long enough	21:27
johnx	Stskeeps, in idle mode the cpufreq mode doesn't really matter I believe	21:27
lcuk	for my usage anyway	21:27
lcuk	johnx, even at 400 the cpu sleeps	21:28
lcuk	its only if its stuck in a 400 loop it will drain faster than if it was stuck in a 166 loop	21:28
Stskeeps	johnx: so i guess the problem isn't cpu usage	21:29
johnx	well, it's a different sleep then most of us are used to thinking about	21:29
Stskeeps	i guess	21:29
trickie	Stskeeps: not really i use it in my mamona kernel	21:29
Stskeeps	maybe the idle vs cpu cycles will be more interesting	21:29
johnx	Stskeeps, debian is probably full of timers	21:29
Stskeeps	mm	21:29
trickie	Stskeeps: you disable CONFIG_FB_OMAP_MANUAL_UPDATE and enable CONFIG_FRAMEBUFFER_CONSOLE	21:29
Stskeeps	trickie: i know, though, but manual is needed to have a speedy X :P	21:30
slonopotamus	Permissible names are: `arm2', `arm250', `arm3', `arm6', `arm60', `arm600', `arm610', `arm620', `arm7', `arm7m', `arm7d', `arm7dm', `arm7di', `arm7dmi', `arm70', `arm700', `arm700i', `arm710', `arm710c', `arm7100', `arm7500', `arm7500fe', `arm7tdmi', `arm7tdmi-s', `arm8', `strongarm', `strongarm110', `strongarm1100', `arm8', `arm810', `arm9', `arm9e', `arm920', `arm920t', `arm922t', `arm946e-s', `arm966e-s', `arm968e-s', `arm926ej-s', `arm940t', `arm9	21:30
slonopotamus	tdmi', `arm10tdmi', `arm1020t', `arm1026ej-s', `arm10e', `arm1020e', `arm1022e', `arm1136j-s', `arm1136jf-s', `mpcore', `mpcorenovfp', `arm1176jz-s', `arm1176jzf-s', `xscale', `iwmmxt', `ep9312'.	21:30
slonopotamus	arm cpu vendors are crazy	21:31
solmumaha	mikkov_: dukes seem fine, only the config in sw version differs a little	21:31
slonopotamus	which one n8x0s have?	21:31
johnx	slonopotamus, one of the arm11	21:32
solmumaha	mi maybe you should also change the startup script so that it tells the controls if config is not yet copied	21:32
mikkov_	solmumaha: should I put same config to sw than in cd version?	21:32
trickie	Stskeeps: yeah true, but if you are trying to bootstrap gentoo, i would rather not be stuffing around and lose some X performance while i do it	21:32
slonopotamus	johnx, i thought armv6	21:32
solmumaha	mikkov_: yes	21:32
trickie	Stskeeps: then enable it again	21:32
johnx	slonopotamus, armv6 = arm11	21:32
Stskeeps	trickie: true	21:32
johnx	slonopotamus, don't think about it too hard	21:33
slonopotamus	johnx, o_O	21:33
mikkov_	solmumaha: ok I make the changes and then promote	21:33
johnx	slonopotamus, well v is the roman numeral for five	21:33
solmumaha	controls can be hard to figure out without the readme	21:33
slonopotamus	johnx, you broke my mind	21:33
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johnx	slonopotamus, heh...it has to do with the difference between an instruction set and a physical CPU core I believe	21:33
solmumaha	so can you make it come up before the config is copied?	21:33
GeneralAntilles	armv6 is the instructionset, ARM11 is the hardware.	21:34
johnx	I think technically the arm11 is a family of CPU designs	21:35
GeneralAntilles	slonopotamus, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ARM_architecture#ARM_cores	21:35
slonopotamus	johnx, i think arm-none-linux-gnueabi will be ok for the first try :)	21:35
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mikkov_	solmumaha: shouldn't be a problem	21:37
slonopotamus	ahha...	21:37
slonopotamus	ARM1136J(F)-S	21:38
slonopotamus	to `arm1176jz-s' or to `arm1176jzf-s'... that is the question :)	21:38
slonopotamus	jz = jazelle?	21:39
GeneralAntilles	Wow, that didn't take tim long.	21:39
slonopotamus	it is disabled?	21:39
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solmumaha	mikkov_: great, must remember to tell pupnik to update the itt post too, you could bump it with the extras info	21:40
slonopotamus	GeneralAntilles, that was a joke?	21:40
GeneralAntilles	slonopotamus?	21:40
slonopotamus	yep?	21:40
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johnx	slonopotamus, is your name tim?	21:40
GeneralAntilles	I sent an email to -community about the package categories, I was saying it didn't take timsamoff long to get crackin'.	21:41
slonopotamus	hmm... i thougth it is a typo for 'him'	21:41
slonopotamus	sorry	21:41
johnx	I read it that way at first too :)	21:41
johnx	I was just curious if GeneralAntilles had guessed your name	21:41
slonopotamus	nope, he didn't	21:42
johnx	and yes, jz probably stands for jazelle, but you can never be sure...	21:42
slonopotamus	:) gcc opts are a great mystery	21:43
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trickie	slonopotamus: did you see http://dev.openbossa.org/trac/mamona/wiki/InternetTablets	21:46
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Stskeeps	trickie: but indeed, mamona has many interesting things	21:49
Stskeeps	you develop on it or what did you say?	21:49
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trickie	Stskeeps: yep, prefer OE to scratchbox	21:50
Stskeeps	oh, i meant, you work on it/develop Mamona?	21:51
trickie	a little bit yes	21:51
Stskeeps	okay - how's the power usage?	21:51
trickie	made some kernel recipes and a few other small things	21:51
Stskeeps	(on tablets)	21:51
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birunko	trickie don't be shy... you are a mamona developer! ;)	21:52
trickie	birunko: he he well ok	21:52
birunko	=)	21:53
macoute_	btw. which would be the best pdf-reader for maemo?	21:53
qole	lcuk: http://maemo.org/news/planet-maemo/	21:54
trickie	Stskeeps: well I do not use it as a 'day to day user' and i do not use wifi as I have a different kernel, but with some tweaks i can leave it idle for at least a few days	21:54
GAN800	macoute, Evince or the built-in one.	21:54
macoute_	the built-in one is terribly slow with pdf-ebooks	21:55
macoute_	that is, bigger pdf:s	21:55
trickie	Stskeeps: I would say it is not any worse than maemo, as it has a smaller footprint, but thats based on absolutely no research :)	21:55
macoute_	evince would be something to test	21:55
Stskeeps	trickie: nod	21:56
Stskeeps	trickie: i'm seeing 12 hour when idle running debian (no x, no wifi, no bluetooth), so it's curious :P	21:56
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Stskeeps	but then again there might be ways to fix that	21:56
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GeneralAntilles	macoute_, I didn't have any trouble with it with Harry Potter VII	21:56
GeneralAntilles	Admittedly that was text-only, though.	21:56
trickie	Stskeeps: do you have a idle timeout to dim/blank display?	21:57
Stskeeps	trickie: ofcourse	21:57
trickie	that will suck you dry	21:57
Stskeeps	yeah, if you don't have it obviously	21:57
Stskeeps	we communicate with DSME to handle it for us	21:57
macoute_	GeneralAntilles: mine are too, but they are slow... maybe a problem then with the files or something.	21:57
trickie	Stskeeps: i don't use dsme	21:57
macoute_	changing a page takes 3-4 seconds	21:57
trickie	Stskeeps: but sometimes i run my own initfs also	21:57
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Stskeeps	trickie: ah, - i like dsme cos it does do some useful things once in a while :P	21:58
trickie	Stskeeps: or boot straight to sdcard	21:58
qole	macoute_, evince is very nice for ebooks	21:58
Stskeeps	on tablets? how do you do that anyway?	21:58
Stskeeps	(i heard rumour it's possible)	21:58
GeneralAntilles	macoute_, honestly, I'd try to convert the pdfs to something FBReader can use.	21:58
Stskeeps	so loading kernel from sd as well?	21:58
macoute_	GeneralAntilles: is there tools for that?	21:59
macoute_	fbreader seemed ok when i tested it	21:59
GeneralAntilles	I don't recall what I used in the past.	21:59
GeneralAntilles	But if you can get them to HTML. . . .	21:59
trickie	Stskeeps: nup	21:59
Stskeeps	ah, ok	21:59
GeneralAntilles	FBReader will be a lot faster, better formatted and easier to navigate than any PDF reader.	21:59
trickie	Stskeeps: nup hardcoding it in the kernel .config	21:59
trickie	Stskeeps: gotta run, but see http://muru.com/linux/n8x0/ for more info, he is booting linux-omap, but you can do the same otherwise	22:00
cyrus___	In scratchbox, I am trying to install pyxdg which seems to require root privleges. How do I accomplish that in scratchbox?	22:01
johnx	cyrus___, fakeroot	22:01
johnx	err...hmmm	22:01
qole	Well, formatting is PDF's strong point, it can be hard work converting to good HTML for fbreader	22:01
johnx	try fakeroot and see if that fixes it	22:01
Stskeeps	trickie: yeah, i know all of that :P	22:01
cyrus___	johnx - ok..thanks	22:01
ShadowJK_	what's /sys/class/leds/cover ?	22:02
cyrus___	johnx - still got error: could not create '/scratchbox/tools/lib/python2.3/site-packages/xdg': Permission denied	22:02
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cyrus___	johnx - i ran fakeroot and id says my uid is root, but I still can't write to that folder	22:04
* lcuk will get round to implementing pdf decoding one day		22:04
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lcuk	qole, :D heh	22:05
johnx	cyrus___, well, it only solves the problem if you didn't really need root.	22:05
* lcuk watches you type		22:05
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RST38h	Hehehehehe	22:06
RST38h	You know what, gentlemen? Bug #3641 is back!	22:07
orangey	(and ladies)	22:07
qwerty12_N800	RST38h, really? drinks on me!	22:07
RST38h	and ladies too, if I can interest any ladies at all in Modest bugs	22:07
RST38h	qwerty: Save 'em for Modest maintainers, until they finally fix the @#$%ing bug	22:08
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qole	lcuk: hope it is ok...	22:09
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* qole pleads for pdf in liqbase		22:10
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Stskeeps	heh	22:14
Stskeeps	http://bsd.tspre.org/~stskeeps/maemo.mapper.pdf <- APT dependancy graph for maemo mapper	22:14
Stskeeps	(zoom in.)	22:14
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Stskeeps	and that ladies and gentlemen, is how the maemo platform looks like :P	22:14
* ShadowJK_ can't zoom in more than 400% :)		22:15
lcuk	qole, advertise for me like that every day and ill add it :P	22:15
RST38h	Sts: This looks like an open N810, when looking from the side	22:15
Stskeeps	hehe	22:15
RST38h	but yes, once you zoom in it looks like...mhmmm...maemo platform	22:16
johnx	Stskeeps, I think I saw one of those clogging the drain once O_o	22:16
RST38h	http://vs.fotography.ru/tmp/bla.jpg <=== Photoshop?	22:17
johnx	RST38h, zombie	22:18
zap	hehe, was watching same pic now	22:18
zap	RST38h: its not photoshop, it's real	22:19
zap	RST38h: http://images.dailykos.com/images/user/1054/mctongue.jpg	22:19
\|rt\|	I just got a n810 and was curious if anyone has sucessfully tethered it to a blackberry device via bluetooth	22:19
zap	when it becomes oboious you're a loser, all you can do is to pretend you're a clown	22:20
johnx	\|rt\|, I believe so. check on http://internettablettalk.com/forums for people who have	22:22
johnx	zap, nah, he's just a zombie	22:22
zap	he has to die first :)	22:22
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johnx	zap, I think he must have. if he was alive he'd be like a million years old, right?	22:23
zap	perhaps he was killed in the Vietnam prison, and now he's a K.G.B zombie	22:23
\|rt\|	johnx: thanks for the link	22:24
\|rt\|	is there a pptp vpn client out there anywhere?	22:24
\|rt\|	I see there's a cisco ipsec client....which I suppose I could use but we typically only use ipsec at work for perminate vpn tunnels	22:25
RST38h	why is he sticking his tongue out so much ? =)	22:27
RST38h	there is an alien inside, yessss, my precioussss...	22:27
\|rt\|	RST38h: for the same reason that Palin can't help but say the word Maverick	22:27
\|rt\|	and McCain has to start every sentence with My friend	22:28
RST38h	Palin probably has one of those huge alien birds inside her	22:30
RST38h	rt: Yes but only when he is angered	22:30
lcuk	she IS one of those huge alien birds	22:31
RST38h	looks American to me.	22:31
lcuk	my point exactly :) from this perspective anyway	22:31
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RST38h	lcuk: Ah come on, you just have to have a local equivalent! Is there one?	22:32
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lcuk	well, now you mention it we DO have a local breed of cow that reminds me of her	22:33
lcuk	tbh thou she reminds me kyles mum	22:33
GeneralAntilles	Too thin.	22:34
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lcuk	yeah i suppose, but if you imagined kyles mum with more weight then it would work	22:35
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GeneralAntilles	_Kyle's_ mom with more weight? :\	22:36
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lcuk	why does sjgadsby's picture on planet look like hes shirtless ? shudder	22:58
GeneralAntilles	Ehehe	22:59
qwerty12_N800	i thought the same thing 30 mins ago :p	22:59
GeneralAntilles	I had the exact same thought when I first saw it.	22:59
lcuk	i got to the bottom of the page and was scared	22:59
GeneralAntilles	It's probably one of these, though: http://images.google.com/images?ie=UTF-8&oe=utf8&q=red%20dirt%20shirt&um=1&sa=N&tab=wi	22:59
lcuk	the worst part is maemo crapped out and i cant click older	22:59
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lcuk	do you think i should be worried about these odd random glitches that are experienced with liqbase?	23:01
lcuk	cos currently i feel pretty low about it - ive crashed it myself a few times, but thats just the same with big pcs and stuff	23:02
RST38h	lcuk: you should	23:03
RST38h	if it crashes, users will notice it and will not use it	23:03
RST38h	you don't really want to be compared to Modest =)	23:04
lcuk	yeah, but users crash things all the time	23:04
lcuk	heh, im not	23:04
lcuk	my machine crashes if i play half life for too long	23:04
lcuk	i agree though RST38h and ive worked around or removed everything i can now - the silly coding mistakes that segfault are one thing	23:05
lcuk	but its when x itself craps out and locks up - when im simply rendering bitmaps	23:05
GeneralAntilles	Then go file a bug report. :P	23:06
lcuk	nothin i can do in code, nothin i can do to continue	23:06
lcuk	heh GeneralAntilles i agree	23:06
lcuk	and on that score GeneralAntilles once i am as certain as possible its not my code i will be filing	23:06
melmoth	regular app should not be allowed to kill X, shouldn they ?	23:06
lcuk	its like xv when rotated has a bug	23:06
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lcuk	melmoth, no but it can do	23:07
melmoth	ideally, building a small test case before filing a bug	23:07
lcuk	heh, if i can reproduce it i can do something	23:07
lcuk	but when i run the exact same code tohusands (millions) of times over the last few months and nothing has reproduced itself how can i do that	23:08
melmoth	talking about crash and stuff.. i am afraid there is no way to use gdb and stuff on the scratchbox sdk in armel.	23:08
bef0rd	yep, I've noticed that latest liqbase is a bit unstable compared with the previous version	23:08
melmoth	are you able to catche core on the tablet ? and use them ?	23:08
lcuk	bef0rd, agreed - its not crapping out on first unknown error anymore and is trying to be more of a hildon app, if you can be more specific i should be able to cure it	23:09
lcuk	that is something brand new and known to be not 100% yet	23:10
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RST38h	lcuk: If you manage to fuck up X11, then you are doing something wrong =)	23:10
melmoth	no, that s spotting a X bug, that s good news.	23:11
melmoth	that is..if somebody can do something about it :)	23:11
lcuk	RST38h, im not - and its not reproducable, but very rarely i get an error and it freezes, in a few weeks if i reproduce it ill save you the error	23:11
bef0rd	lcuk, i've got two crash at least, the screen went black and got no response	23:11
lcuk	and since x shouts on stderr it wont be in the log	23:12
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suihkulokki	Stskeeps ?	23:14
Stskeeps	suihkulokki: mm?	23:14
suihkulokki	I'm cleaning 0xffff for debian inclusion	23:14
lcuk	RST38h, this is the type of error it raises when it completely locks (this is not the specific one i just did a google on the keywords)	23:15
lcuk	X Error of failed request: BadMatch (invalid parameter attributes)	23:15
lcuk	Major opcode of failed request: 142 (XVideo)	23:15
lcuk	Minor opcode of failed request: 17 ()	23:15
Stskeeps	suihkulokki: alright, sounds good	23:15
suihkulokki	as the first package in main dir :P	23:15
lcuk	yet it has been running happily for hours prior to this and continues to run happily afterwards	23:15
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RST38h	Is 2008.38 available for update?	23:16
suihkulokki	Stskeeps: so the question remains how to manage the process	23:17
Stskeeps	suihkulokki: i have no particular interest in 0xffff, atleast - if we make interesting packages, clean up, mention deblet somewhere, retain copyright of package with your copyright notice addition, then i'm fine with it	23:18
RST38h	lcuk: Oh I know what it is	23:18
Stskeeps	(i'm a bsd license person, so as long as i'm credited, i'm fine)	23:18
lcuk	enlighten me then	23:18
suihkulokki	Stskeeps: well, 0xffff is just a example packaging in this case	23:18
lcuk	please :$	23:18
Stskeeps	suihkulokki: yep	23:18
suihkulokki	just needed to start somewhere ;)	23:19
suihkulokki	so eventually we want everything in debian	23:19
Stskeeps	nod	23:19
Stskeeps	we'll see - some of the packages are direct hacks	23:19
Stskeeps	but this is fun working with anyway	23:19
Stskeeps	you having it in sid/lenny just lessens our bw load ;)	23:19
RST38h	lcuk: You are making some XVideo API call and provide bad image attributes	23:20
RST38h	lcuk: Should I look up those numbers?	23:20
lcuk	but i dont ever change the attributes and it works for MANY thousands of millions of calls	23:20
Stskeeps	suihkulokki: just as long as i don't get into any discussions with debian-legal, had enough of those :P	23:20
lcuk	no, thats NOT the actual error	23:20
lcuk	ill store it when it happens again - like i said , its happened just a couple of times	23:20
lcuk	that was the type of error and i just remembered seeing the major and minor opcode bits	23:21
suihkulokki	Stskeeps: well d-l should be irrelevant for all the main/contrib packages	23:22
Stskeeps	nod	23:22
Stskeeps	i've tried to put them into main/contrib after guidelines atleast	23:22
lcuk	i would understand if i changed the way i called it and got a reproducable failure - (like i get if i try to only update part of the xv plane) - but this just fails on the spot - i never worried about it cos i remember reading something about it from the original "sdl tearing mplayer" thread thingy	23:22
RST38h	lcuk: this means that the context of that call execution somehow changes	23:22
RST38h	lcuk: And you have to check for it somehow	23:22
Stskeeps	suihkulokki: i'm just happy developing and making interesting things - so just pull upstream whatever you find interesting :)	23:23
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Stskeeps	then when the package is availiable in unstable or the likes, we pull from our repo, and so on (i prefer to stay on lenny base for now as .. unstable did funny things while we developed)	23:23
lcuk	RST38h, all i can do is check the result of the 1 call made to XvShmPutImage, which i do, but the error has occured and locked	23:24
lcuk	before that returns	23:24
lcuk	so i can never check it	23:24
lcuk	brb	23:24
suihkulokki	Stskeeps: well I'd prefer you guys would still keep maintaining them in after they get into debian	23:24
suihkulokki	I have to mentor but not so much to maintain	23:25
RST38h	lcuk: Ok, so you are doing ShmPutImage	23:25
Stskeeps	nod	23:25
Stskeeps	alright, then deblet repo would serve as development ground i guess :P	23:25
RST38h	and that call fails?	23:25
suihkulokki	yeah, that's fine	23:25
Stskeeps	i will take patches gladly (and if you want svn commit, you're more than welcome)	23:25
suihkulokki	do you have a mailing list?	23:25
lcuk	RST38h, no, somewhere within that call it outputs that message and locks	23:26
lcuk	but only once in a bluemoon	23:26
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Stskeeps	suihkulokki: for commits? no, just trac's timeline / rss, - most discussions happen here on irc or on ITT	23:26
lcuk	and i call it the same every time	23:26
RST38h	lcuk: X11 receives that call (remember, it is client server architecture) and fails to execute it	23:26
RST38h	lcuk: Because it has been doing something else at that moment	23:26
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* moontiger wonders where she can send a SQL Scripting For Dummies book so the maemo.org guys can learn how to do databases		23:27
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moontiger	so slow ... always so slow	23:27
suihkulokki	Stskeeps: well something to drop as the maintainer address	23:27
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Stskeeps	suihkulokki: set deblet@tspre.org	23:28
lcuk	RST38h, thats all well and good, but any idea how to prevent it?	23:29
lcuk	do i need to obtain a lock around it or something?	23:29
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GeneralAntilles	moontiger, the server move is still in progress. . . .	23:38
Stskeeps	wasn't this supposed to be done months ago? :P	23:39
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GeneralAntilles	Stskeeps, the Finnish summer vacation pushed things back a lot.	23:40
GeneralAntilles	More like weeks ago realistically.	23:40
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cyrus___	when connecting my n810 to desktop computer through USB, only the internal memory card shows up. Anyone know why?	23:47
Stskeeps	cyrus___: maybe external card is in use	23:48
macoute_	cloned os?	23:48
Stskeeps	or that	23:48
cyrus___	Stskeeps - no..I just rebooted it	23:48
macoute_	and no cloned os?	23:48
Stskeeps	metacrawler crawling in places it shouldnt? :P	23:48
macoute_	can you use it normally?	23:48
cyrus___	cloned os? - not sure what you mean by that	23:49
cyrus___	yes I can	23:49
macoute_	cyrus___: then you prolly dont have it :)	23:50
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moontiger	GeneralAntilles, really?? it takes me an hour to set up a web server from start to end	23:53
GeneralAntilles	moontiger, yeah, one server.	23:53
moontiger	they have more than one?	23:53
GeneralAntilles	Lots more	23:53
moontiger	a cluster of n770's?? wow! ;)	23:54
GeneralAntilles	They also have lots and lots of heavy applications	23:54
GeneralAntilles	Bugzilla, the wiki, Garage, Midgard, Downloads, the mailing lists, the repositories, etc, etc.	23:54
moontiger	why dont they just have the web server running on its own as a web server?	23:54
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GeneralAntilles	Anyway, think whatever you want, it's not a simple thing. :)	23:55
moontiger	im not saying it is but i have written and maintained a few large websites and they were a lot faster with a lot less hardware	23:55
moontiger	just puzzling is all	23:55
GeneralAntilles	As large as maemo.org? and with as many services?	23:56
GeneralAntilles	I somehow doubt it.	23:56
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moontiger	well 2 load balanced apache servers talking to a video server and a db server	23:56
moontiger	serving over 1tb of video each month to close on 500k uniques	23:56
moontiger	and an average of 15million page views per month	23:57
moontiger	so not trivial	23:57
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GeneralAntilles	The stuff running maemo.org _is_ open source, I'm sure they'd be happy to have additional help. :)	23:58

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