IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2008-10-13

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Stskeeps	the problems with experiments and documenting them, is that eventually someone will stumble upon them and fail miserably at it	00:16
Stskeeps	because they weren't the target audience	00:16
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Stskeeps	which is why nuclear bomb blueprints shouldn't be on the net.	00:16
Stskeeps	:P	00:16
mavhc	which is why we should develop personal shield technology	00:17
lcuk	nuclear bombs are kinda self solving	00:18
BULLE_	Stskeeps: the main issue is not to understand or get hold of the blueprints, a decent university physics student can do that, what you will have problems with, is getting hold of the stuff that goes b0000m	00:18
BULLE_	lcuk: darwin style ?	00:18
lcuk	if they play for too long they die of radiation, if it works they burn in a fireball	00:18
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mavhc	the problem is refining it with centrifuges	00:19
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lcuk	evening lardman \o	00:19
lardman	hi lcuk	00:20
lardman	how goes it?	00:20
Stskeeps	well, in this case it was about deblet 770 port. people have a tendancy to straight away trust guides and not realize the context/audience, and think documented experiments are absolute truths	00:20
lcuk	quite good actually, i had something i wanna run by you, but its probably made your work account ping, hang on a mo	00:20
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zakkm	How's VNC on the n800 ?	00:24
GAN800	Fine.	00:25
zakkm	is it worth VNC'ing?	00:25
zakkm	and using apps then using mameo?	00:25
zakkm	Local networked.. that is	00:25
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lcuk	which way round	00:25
zakkm	Nokia controlling PC..	00:26
lcuk	vnc is vnc then, obviously lower res screen than usual, but it pans and can be rotated	00:26
zakkm	or rdesktop will do too	00:27
BULLE_	zakkm: you dont get stellar performance from vnc client on a n800	00:27
BULLE_	zakkm: but its perfectly useable	00:27
lardman	hey qwerty12_N800	00:27
zakkm	will it be better than using maemo apps for instance? / same ??	00:27
lardman	qwerty12_N800: a belated happy birthday to you	00:27
BULLE_	zakkm: it will of coursse be worse	00:27
qwerty12_N800	hi lardman :)	00:27
zakkm	ah	00:27
qwerty12_N800	lardman, thanks :)	00:27
BULLE_	zakkm: atleast if you are thinking of screen update speed, and so on	00:27
zakkm	Over local networked im thinking too	00:28
BULLE_	zakkm: on the other hand, if you run some app eating 1024mb ram on the server, then, well, that wont run on the n800, so then its way faster	00:28
zakkm	nah just normal usage	00:28
Proteous	the most annoying part of using rdesktop and vnc on the tablet is trying to manipulate tiny things on the screen with the stylus	00:28
BULLE_	zakkm: but imho its not worth running say firefox over vnc, or similar, in order to get faster webbrowser	00:28
Proteous	hard to be accurate	00:28
BULLE_	Proteous: yeah, and also using programs that are designed for extensive keyboard use	00:28
zakkm	ah	00:29
mavhc	I don't find rdp that bad	00:29
BULLE_	well, its not bad, its useable, but i do prefer running stuff local on the n800 instead of via an rdp session	00:29
BULLE_	atleast for stuff that the n800 can handle	00:29
Proteous	actualy, since I finaly got a cable and updated my n810, the unintentionaly double tapping problem has gone away mostly, that helps a bit	00:30
zakkm	Trying to find little ways to speedup my n800 usage.	00:30
zakkm	what about like	00:30
zakkm	If i have a document on my home PC right	00:30
zakkm	and i wanted to read it in the living room	00:30
zakkm	would the performance be good enough?	00:30
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lcuk	vnc is not useful to speedup apps, but its useful in its original intent, to gain access to a remote system	00:30
BULLE_	lcuk: exactly	00:30
lcuk	zakkm, why not just share doc on the network and view live though..	00:30
BULLE_	i use vnc and openvpn when im on the move	00:31
zakkm	tis an example	00:31
zakkm	just normal usage stuff	00:31
zakkm	no web	00:31
mavhc	depends, which is more resourcy, the data or the display of the data	00:32
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Proteous	resourcy, I live it	00:34
Proteous	er, love	00:34
zakkm	how long have you all owned a NIT?	00:34
Proteous	since the n770s were on woot.com for $125	00:35
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Proteous	whenever that was...	00:35
zakkm	$125 :O	00:35
zakkm	i had to buy my 770 on ebay for $85 . .WSOD two weeks later	00:35
Proteous	yeah, mine eventualy WSODed	00:35
Proteous	so did my brothers	00:36
zakkm	that sucks	00:36
Proteous	but one of my other brothers who bought one is still going	00:36
zakkm	I didnt know they wsod'd when i first bought it	00:36
Proteous	Mine was still under warrenty when it happened but I just got a n810 instead	00:36
Proteous	keyboard FTW	00:36
Proteous	I use ssh a lot so it's worth it	00:37
zakkm	ah	00:37
zakkm	I personally like the thumb keyboard :)	00:37
Proteous	it was usefull but it obscured the screen	00:37
zakkm	didn't think of that.	00:37
Proteous	so you couldn't see what was going on when you were slowly typing something out	00:37
zakkm	price is so much higher though	00:39
zakkm	that's like the only difference isnt it?	00:39
BULLE_	WSOD ?	00:39
Proteous	I got mine as an open box from amazon warehouse for $325	00:39
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zakkm	wsod = white screen of death	00:39
zakkm	evantually the N770's stay white.. when you turn it on.. making it useless / garbage	00:39
zakkm	no way to fix	00:39
BULLE_	oh, never heard of, but i have never had an 770 either, so i guess that explains why	00:39
BULLE_	zakkm: oh, and what is it that breaks ?	00:40
zakkm	the LCD itself i think	00:40
BULLE_	i see	00:40
zakkm	the thing that connects the LCD to the motherboard or soemthing	00:40
zakkm	that wire	00:40
Proteous	well, probably one the chips that drives the LCD	00:40
zakkm	w.e nobody fixed it	00:40
Proteous	the screen isn't totaly white, if you look at it at an off angle you can sorta see parts of the screen that are trying to render	00:40
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zakkm	$325 is alot	00:40
zakkm	not on mine.	00:41
zakkm	it will all white	00:41
Proteous	zakkm: I guess	00:41
zakkm	if i clicked aronud sometimes there was vertical lines	00:41
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Proteous	for the amount of use I get out of my n810 it's not a lot	00:41
Proteous	I use it every day	00:41
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zakkm	so you dont regret buying it for that price?	00:42
Proteous	no	00:42
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zakkm	do you use maemo?	00:42
Proteous	yeah	00:43
zakkm	07 or 08??	00:43
Proteous	diablo	00:43
cyrus__	Stskeeps - ok..so I can give it a try now..will do	00:43
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mavhc	that's nothing, I paid £250, that's more like $500, 3 months ago	00:44
cyrus__	Stskeeps - I don't have to reinstall the package right...just run the Install deblet?	00:44
zakkm	:O	00:44
zakkm	mavhc: why'd you pay so much?	00:44
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Stskeeps	cyrus__: right	00:45
Stskeeps	reboot tablet first ideally	00:45
mavhc	well, 17.5% vat for a start	00:45
cyrus__	Stskeeps - ok..goign to do it now	00:45
mavhc	so that's $420, uk just has high prices	00:45
zakkm	im having enough trouble trying to save up $180 for a used NOKIA N800 --	00:45
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BULLE_	zakkm: prices in europe are sky high, because the dollar is so weak	00:46
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BULLE_	asking price for n810 here is around 500usd aswell, new	00:47
BULLE_	its not THAT expensive imho	00:47
zakkm	... in a store like 5min from my house.. its $349.99 CDN	00:47
zakkm	n810	00:47
zakkm	brand new	00:47
mavhc	odd, as nokia is in .eu	00:47
BULLE_	mavhc: nokia is from finland, they are special .......	00:48
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zakkm	This might sound weird but will a external usb harddrive work on the nokia n800?	00:48
BULLE_	but, an n810 is priced as a midrange cellphone here	00:48
cyrus__	Stskeeps - just starting the package install now. Will let you know in about 2 hours if it is good or not	00:48
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BULLE_	a highend phone will set you back, say 1000usd ( think high end nokia or new sony ericsson xperia )	00:48
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Stskeeps	cyrus__: this is a n800/n810 btw?	00:49
zakkm	Is ClawsMail fast on the n800 ?	00:49
zakkm	Hey, if im in wifi .. is there a way that the nokia does something if i get a new email ?	00:49
zakkm	like an applet tells me or something	00:50
zakkm	thinking gmail.	00:50
sp3000	there might be a notifier applet, dunno if it's good	00:51
sp3000	if you configure the mail client, it can blink the light and make a sound and show a list of new stuff	00:51
zakkm	Is Claws Mail quicker than built-in mail?	00:52
zakkm	sp3000: yeah thats it :P thanks	00:52
zakkm	I was thinking something like that	00:52
zakkm	does Mail Client have to be open though?	00:52
* Stskeeps still loathes modest		00:52
lcuk	zakkm, no1 can blame you for not making an informed choice :)	00:52
zakkm	?	00:52
GAN800	The 770's display controller would gte overvoltage on startup	00:52
zakkm	lcuk: ?	00:52
GAN800	I have two, and from Nov 2005 and one from woot and neither have failed.	00:53
lcuk	you have asked so many questions so far	00:53
zakkm	I know :(	00:53
GAN800	Stskeeps, why loathe?	00:53
lcuk	dont worry at all, its best	00:53
zakkm	I like to know everything before i buy something.	00:53
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lcuk	and your questions spark debate :)	00:53
GAN800	At least it's open source. . . .	00:53
zakkm	When i buy the nokia it will make me broke	00:53
zakkm	GAN800: my nokia n770 froze, i rebooted, BAM WSOD	00:54
Stskeeps	GAN800: when i'm sitting on a gprs, the last thing i want for it is to suddenly not respond to my "cancel" commands	00:54
Stskeeps	or start talking about downloading 1000s of messages in another folder :P	00:54
sp3000	zakkm: no, the ui doesn't need to be up for it to check in the bg	00:55
GAN800	s/n770/770/g	00:55
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zakkm	Does it check in the background though?	00:55
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kpel	yes	00:55
Stskeeps	how was it with Maemo's icd.. the UI is closed but engine is open?	00:57
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kpel	dunno.	00:57
ShadowJK_	icd?	00:58
qwerty12_N800	meh, i'm confused about nokia decides to open source. sounds like they pick names out of a hat	00:58
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qwerty12_N800	ShadowJK_, internet connectivity daemon	00:58
zakkm	Does mail support attachments?	00:59
zakkm	like adding attachments to your email?	00:59
kpel	never tried attaching anything. but i think i did receive email with attachhments	01:00
Stskeeps	has DSME come out yet?	01:00
Stskeeps	:P	01:00
ShadowJK_	can't open source the connectivity thing, it's better than NetworkManager ;p	01:00
Stskeeps	true	01:00
qwerty12_N800	oh for sure. nm is a tosser	01:00
Stskeeps	and that's the scary part	01:00
zakkm	Using canola to play a song? does it take significantly more battery life than the builtin media player?	01:01
kpel	no idea	01:02
kpel	btw, you don't work for the android team, do you? :P	01:02
zakkm	me?	01:02
zakkm	Besides its owned by Google, i really know nothing about Android	01:02
lcuk	no, hes nokia market research	01:02
lcuk	checkin if we know our product ;)	01:03
zakkm	haha	01:03
cyrus__	Stskeeps - as for your question..yes an N810	01:03
zakkm	Canola looks so good :)	01:03
Stskeeps	cyrus__: alright	01:03
kpel	i find it a bit slow and it takes up a lot of precious storage. too bad we can't select to install apps on the removable memory card	01:04
zakkm	does it get faster with release?	01:04
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zakkm	like overtime will it get faster?	01:04
lcuk	kpel, technically as a simple solution you could symlink any part of the root fs to a memory card	01:05
zakkm	:O its skinnibe	01:05
lcuk	i believe..	01:05
zakkm	wouldnt you mount the SD into the directory? not symlink ?	01:05
qwerty12_N800	just be sure the sd is mounted in time when booting...	01:05
lcuk	heh	01:06
cyrus__	Stskeeps - it has been going for a bit now and just sitting at Retrieving adduser	01:06
cyrus__	Stskeeps - anything I should be lookign for here?	01:06
zakkm	symlink would still install to the internal wouldnt it?	01:06
zakkm	just let your SD apps work too ?	01:06
zakkm	but nothing would install to it?	01:06
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kpel	lcuk: true. and after every os upgrade i would have to repeat this workaround	01:07
lardman	I think the point was to symlink something under /usr to the memory card	01:07
lardman	therefore things would be installed there automatically	01:07
cyrus__	Stskeeps - since you said you did something with sudoers I was wondering if maybe this has some affect on the adduser package	01:07
zakkm	isn't it mount SD to /usr. .. though.. rather than symlink SD with internal /usr	01:07
kpel	yes, and after flashing a new os image the symlinks would be gone	01:08
zakkm	but if you symlink .. it would install to both places..	01:08
kpel	zakkm: by default the SD is mounted i	01:08
zakkm	if you mount.. it would only install to SD	01:08
kpel	in /media/mmc1	01:08
zakkm	yes but you can also mount it into /usr	01:08
Stskeeps	cyrus__: ah, no, adduser and debootstrap comes before we do anything deblet-specific	01:08
Stskeeps	cyrus__: right now you're just installing Debian for ARMEL	01:08
Stskeeps	after that phase, we put packages on top to make it usable (ie, not a blank screen :P)	01:09
lardman	zakkm: if you symlink to /usr/bin, lib, etc., it will only be installed to the directories you symlinked	01:09
lardman	but yes, mounting it is another option	01:09
* lcuk sparks debates with his wayward tongue and incorrect syntax.		01:09
kpel	zakkm: if you mount the card on /usr you lose all the default contents of /usr until you unmount the card	01:09
cyrus__	Stskeeps - ok...i will leave it for a bit and see if it continues or just sits there	01:09
lcuk	at least you lot knew what i meant even if i got the details wrong ;)	01:09
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zakkm	yes	01:10
zakkm	thats why you clone /usr into the SD first	01:10
zakkm	then the internal memory /usr will be empty	01:10
zakkm	wont take any space	01:10
zakkm	and you mount to the SD into /usr	01:10
* Stskeeps heads to sleep		01:10
lcuk	Stskeeps, good night :)	01:10
lardman	You'd have to check that the device can boot without /usr anyway (theoretically it should work, but you never know)	01:10
zakkm	sure SD will always be used, but isnt that what you wanted? no space in/usr ? "unlimited" storage in /usr	01:10
zakkm	SD will alwy sneed to be in*	01:11
kpel	but this way you don't use the sd to extend the storage space but to replace internal storage with external	01:11
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zakkm	yes	01:11
lcuk	zakkm, aint that like old computers needing to leave a certain floppy in	01:11
zakkm	isnt that what the question was?	01:11
lcuk	thats not exactly a big deal :0	01:11
lcuk	) even	01:11
lardman	extending is hard without symlinking each app individually a la ipkg-link, or using a special fs	01:11
zakkm	symlink will require space in both internal and external ... cloning and mounting wont..	01:11
lardman	zakkm: symlink the directory!	01:12
zakkm	ah w.e lol	01:12
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kpel	or convince nokia to add a reasonable amount of flash memory instead of having users jump through hoops ;)	01:12
zakkm	or convince nokia to make maemo smaller	01:13
zakkm	so theres more room	01:13
zakkm	that way we wont need a new NIT -.-	01:13
kpel	yes. only bash and vim should be allowed!	01:13
kpel	j/k	01:13
zakkm	lol	01:14
zakkm	there are ways :P	01:14
kpel	(who needs vim after all when you have cat)	01:14
zakkm	who needs vim when you have a pencil and paper :D lol	01:14
lcuk	im vanishin for a bit anyway, catch you lot later on	01:14
kpel	c ya lcuk	01:14
* qwerty12_N800 cries as i have to build optmised mpd again. i hate all the music players for maemo. mpd ftw.		01:15
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lardman	night lcuk	01:15
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kpel	music for maemo? why? are music playing smart phones that bad?	01:16
zakkm	qwerty12_N800: how well does mpd in terms of battery life?	01:16
qwerty12_N800	zakkm, no idea, i never really test for battery life but cpu usage and mem usage with mpd are very low	01:17
qwerty12_N800	kpel, i prefer walkman phones :)	01:17
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zakkm	qwerty12_N800: back in my gentoo days, I used mpd and sonata.	01:18
zakkm	but i was curious about using mpd on my n800 ..	01:18
zakkm	and using my home pc as a mpd server	01:18
qwerty12_N800	sure, it works. i use mmpc + mpd on the tablet and sonata on the pc for controlling the n800. but sonata is available for maemo too	01:19
zakkm	yeah i was just going to say i would probably use sonata	01:20
zakkm	I used it for PC and the maemo port looks really goodd	01:20
zakkm	I was just curious on how well it compares to the actual media player builtin app	01:20
zakkm	if i would get better battery on sonata/mpd vs builtin media player app	01:20
qwerty12_N800	the mpd compile for tablets is pretty old so i took the time to compile the latest mpd and recompile all the audio libs to use the vfp etc but i lost all my debs :/	01:21
zakkm	Haha	01:22
zakkm	I used 0.13 for PC i believe.	01:23
qwerty12_N800	yeah, that's the one i compiled for maemo. you can get 0.12 from the garage	01:23
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zakkm	Nice.	01:24
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zakkm	you try sonata on the nit?	01:24
qwerty12_N800	yep, works well except for slow startup time. but i blame it being in python for that.	01:25
qwerty12_N800	(this was with python-launcher running)	01:25
zakkm	eek	01:26
zakkm	whats mmpc like? never used it/ havent heard much about it	01:26
qwerty12_N800	it's ok, i like it, looks a bit like the built in player. it's fast but playlist/library management skills leave a lot to be desired	01:28
zakkm	This might sound dumb but can i have mpd on my pc at home.. and make it stream music to my nokia NIT ?	01:29
zakkm	and music outputs from my nokia?	01:29
qwerty12_N800	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=19059	01:30
qwerty12_N800	sounds like what you wa	01:30
qwerty12_N800	nt	01:30
zakkm	no	01:30
zakkm	i was tihknig being in school . .and having my home music collection.	01:30
zakkm	not using the n800 as a soundcard for pc	01:30
zakkm	so like sonata on my n800 shows my home music collection.. and when i play a song.. it "streams" from my home pc	01:31
zakkm	and plays on my nokia.	01:31
qwerty12_N800	you could try the icecast feature of mpd	01:31
zakkm	isnt that just radio?	01:31
qwerty12_N800	no, it can stream your music	01:31
lardman	night all	01:34
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zakkm	night	01:34
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zakkm	does the newest diablo use microb?	01:54
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closet_	zakkm: yup, still microb I believe.	02:19
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zakkm	closet_ thanks	02:25
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bef0rd	new personal menu configuration dialog looks nicer	03:05
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cyrus__	Stskeeps - looks good. Installation completed without error	03:13
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cyrus__	Stskeeps - success. Deblet is booting. Thanks for the help	03:20
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cyrus__	Stskeeps - everything is good but I find that deblet runs very very slow.	03:54
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lopz	night	05:47
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cactaur	Where can I find the kernel sources on the N800?	06:36
cactaur	Or... are they even on the N800?	06:39
whodat	i only see "openstreet" in maemo mapper, how do i get the google maps?	06:39
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moontiger	has anybody else been having "issues" with maemo.org?	06:46
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`0660	yeah	06:58
`0660	seemed to be down	06:58
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moontiger	how come its so hard for them to get a working web site??!!??	07:32
moontiger	sheesh	07:32
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RST38h	http://www.tampabay.com/news/humaninterest/article847365.ece	07:40
RST38h	Hehe	07:40
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RST38h	moontiger: I have got a theory on that but nobody is listening	07:40
RST38h	moontiger: My guess is that their publishing system (Midgard) issues SQL queries that bring down the MySQL	07:41
RST38h	Either due to lack of proper indices or just because the queries are too complex.	07:41
doc\|home	RST38h: that's just dumb	07:42
RST38h	Why? It is really easy to get into this situation, especially if you are not watching MySQL logs	07:43
RST38h	But the fun part is that if I am right, no amount of extra hardware will save their ass =)	07:44
`0660	:)	07:47
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slonopotamus	qemu: Unsupported syscall: 303	08:46
slonopotamus	qemu: Unsupported syscall: 303	08:46
slonopotamus	qemu: Unsupported syscall: 299	08:46
slonopotamus	qemu: Unsupported syscall: 300	08:46
slonopotamus	is it good?	08:46
moontiger	sorry was away	08:46
moontiger	RST38h, yah something is def screwy	08:46
moontiger	i write high perf websites for a living and this makes no sense	08:46
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moontiger	if the queries are that complex to be slowing things down that much it means the db design isnt very good	08:47
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RST38h	slonopotamus: it is normal. qemu sucks. debug on the real tablet.	10:02
slonopotamus	RST38h, tell that to autobuilder :)	10:03
RST38h	ah	10:03
slonopotamus	aha	10:03
RST38h	autobuilder.	10:03
RST38h	what part of the build process caused these?	10:04
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slonopotamus	https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/fakeroot_1.9.5/armel.build.log.FAILED.txt	10:04
slonopotamus	maybe autobuilder should pass "nocheck" option for armel target... because it often has troubles.	10:05
RST38h	using cell phone. cant open links.	10:05
slonopotamus	oh	10:05
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slonopotamus	error happens during tests	10:05
RST38h	well, your best bet would be asking x-fade for help	10:05
slonopotamus	X-Fade, gimme som help, please :)	10:06
slonopotamus	s/som/some	10:06
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RST38h	sdk qemu does not support all maemo features (file dialog will kill it for example) so using it to test is not very fruitful	10:07
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hrw	morning	10:25
johnx	hey hrw. you tried to update the hildon packages in OE a while back, didn't you?	10:25
hrw	RST38h: it is not qemu fault but scratchbox fault - they use old qemu	10:26
hrw	johnx: Poky has them	10:26
johnx	w00t!	10:26
hrw	in one of experimental branches	10:26
johnx	I'll look :)	10:27
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RST38h	hrw: Oh	10:32
Jaffa	morning, all	10:40
johnx	mornin' Jaffa	10:41
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RST38h	hrw: May it be possible to upgrade qemu at least inside the autobuilder installation?	10:44
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hrw	RST38h: I am not familiar with sbox and have no idea which patches they apply to qemu	10:47
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RST38h	better wait for X-Fade and talk him into it then =)	10:49
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RST38h	moo, johnx	11:53
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RST38h	~curse maemo.org in general and Midgard in particular for 2+ minute page load times	11:54
infobot	May the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, maemo.org in general and Midgard in particular for 2+ minute page load times !	11:54
aquatix	soooo, servers not entirely migrated yet?	11:55
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RST38h	no idea.	11:56
RST38h	as I said, I doubt migration will help	11:56
tekojo	RST38h, aquatix: the web servers yes, but the database server is slow and buggy	11:56
tekojo	Looking at hardware and MySQL	11:57
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RST38h	tekojo: Have you looked at MySQL execution logs?	11:57
tekojo	Personally no	11:57
tekojo	I'm not too good with MySQL	11:57
RST38h	tekojo: Does MySQL have commands like EXPLAIN to show what each query ends up doing and how long each operation takes?	11:57
tekojo	Hope so, but don't know, if it were Oracle I would know :-)	11:58
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tekojo	But the OS level statistics also show something fishy going on	11:59
RST38h	tekojo: I do not think it is that much different nowadays	11:59
RST38h	tekojo: My strong suspicion is you are missing a few important indices (easy to fix - CREATE INDEX ON) or issuing queries that are too complex	11:59
tekojo	That could be one thing that is wrong, but I fear that it is that plus something else.	12:00
tekojo	Or worse the hardware is broken	12:00
RST38h	not likely	12:01
* RST38h usually trusts the hardware: it either dies completely or it works		12:01
tekojo	Well, the stats look pretty strange	12:02
tekojo	I am having everything checked just to be sure	12:03
tekojo	And I am a pretty frustrated with this ongoing problem too	12:03
RST38h	I would be ok with some delays but 2+ minutes is unrealistic	12:06
RST38h	A bit more, and we will have to send HTTP requests by email	12:06
RST38h	Just updated ColEm and MasterGear for Maemo. Whoever is interested, either install/update from Extras or use the homepages	12:08
tekojo	It's not sending the http, it's getting the answer (just need to send us your home address and a self addressed stamped envelope...)	12:09
aquatix	might indeed be missing some indices	12:13
aquatix	and yes, mysql has explain functionality :)	12:14
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lardman	morning all	12:58
* lcuk lobs a tumbleweed @ lardman		13:01
lcuk	mornin simon	13:01
lcuk	but im not actually here, so cya later	13:02
RST38h	ehlo, lardman, lcuk	13:05
lardman	lol lcuk, hi anyway	13:06
lardman	hi RST38h	13:06
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_\|Nix\|_	Hi! Where can I get a maemo.org logo SVG?	13:20
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L0cutus	hello	13:23
L0cutus	seems we need the new kernel on n8** it :)	13:23
L0cutus	the new FS seems very useful	13:24
L0cutus	UBFIS (Unsorted Block Images File System)	13:24
L0cutus	born for ssd/flash cards	13:24
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lcuk	lardman, just to let you know i put that fakey multitouch idea into code and its in the latest deb for liqbase. it seems to work quite well and stays with the second moving finger	13:32
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lcuk	the itT thread should have a link	13:33
lardman	cool, will give it a go when I get a chance	13:33
* lcuk runs off again, POA screens to do		13:33
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trickie\|work	L0cutus: not for sdcards	13:50
trickie\|work	for raw flash	13:50
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L0cutus	trickie\|work, are you sure ?	13:58
L0cutus	why not sd ?	13:58
trickie\|work	yes im sure	13:59
trickie\|work	http://www.linux-mtd.infradead.org/doc/ubifs.html	13:59
trickie\|work	read the big note at the top	13:59
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crashanddie	trickie\|work, the n810 runs mtdblock, right?	14:09
crashanddie	(well, Diablo as a whole)	14:09
trickie\|work	yep, which i think emulates block devices from raw flash	14:11
trickie\|work	so to access the raw flash as a block device	14:12
crashanddie	yeah, but isn't that like crap?	14:12
trickie\|work	sdcards usually have block device emulation in hardware	14:12
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crashanddie	using mtdblock is a very bad idea because what it basically does if you change any sector of you mtdblockX device, it reads the whole corresponding eraseblock into the memory, erases the eraseblock, changes the sector in RAM, and writes the whole eraseblock back. This is very straightforward. If you have a power failure when the eraseblock is being erased, you lose all the block device sectors in it. The flash will likely decay soon	14:12
crashanddie	because you will wear few eraseblocks out - most probably those ones which contain FAT/bitmap/inode table/etc.	14:12
trickie\|work	crashanddie: not sure of the pro's or con's but i guess it makes it easier to make raw flash behave similar to other storage devices	14:13
trickie\|work	i thought the fs did the wear-levelling	14:13
Stskeeps	crashanddie: aren't you thinking about jffs and not mtd?	14:13
Stskeeps	jffs has the whole eraseblock stuff	14:14
crashanddie	hey, that's just a copy paste from linux-mtd.infradead.org :P	14:14
crashanddie	link given above	14:14
Stskeeps	crashanddie: if mtdblock is so bad, why does UBIFS run on top of it? :P	14:15
crashanddie	dunno	14:15
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Stskeeps	fat on top of mtdblock, sure, bad :P	14:15
crashanddie	Stskeeps, ubi doesn't run atop mtdblock	14:16
Stskeeps	crashanddie: ubi subsystem runs on top of mtd subsystem, and ubifs runs on top of ubi subsystem	14:17
Stskeeps	look at your own link	14:17
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crashanddie	Stskeeps, eh?	14:19
crashanddie	Stskeeps, mtdblock != mtd subsystem	14:19
trickie\|work	i guess ubi is a next generation mtdblock	14:20
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trickie\|work	and iguess they use mtdblock now cause there are not many alternatives	14:21
crashanddie	Stskeeps, mtdblock translates an MTD to conform to a regular block device. UBI accesses the raw flash, and thus uses it as a regular MTD device	14:21
crashanddie	mtdblock gives you access to sectors, which are mapped into a single eraseblock. UBI uses eraseblocks directly	14:22
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Stskeeps	crashanddie: ah	14:30
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blafasel_	Stupid question: I installed the deb that clones my installation to the SD card, and after that I always have to listen to that retarded "I pronounce linux linux" sample. Funny, but please, please tell me where this thing hides so that I can kill it.	14:40
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napsy_	Hello. I ported my gtk+ program to nokia n800 with os2008. Now I'm interested to put the program to fullscreen. How could I do that?	14:48
aquatix	press the fullscreen button?	14:49
napsy_	It doesn't work	14:49
aquatix	or by default?	14:49
aquatix	oh	14:49
Mek	damn, that default media player application in maemo really sucks... the text "Playing: foobar" shows another song than it is actually playing :)	14:49
aquatix	oh?	14:49
aquatix	i haven't encountered that	14:49
aquatix	i even use it as default music player	14:50
aquatix	works for me	14:50
melmoth	napsy_: add a callback that launch fullscreen() whenever the f6 key is pressed	14:50
Mek	probably some race condition or somethin I guess	14:50
aquatix	Mek: i guess indeed	14:50
napsy_	melmoth, can I force fulscreen without pressing the key?	14:51
RST38h	Mek: it is probablydesyncing because of dbus	14:51
melmoth	add a call to fullscreen() directly	14:51
napsy_	ok I'll try, tnx	14:51
solmumaha	i think you need to toggle fullscreen/unfullscreen	14:51
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napsy_	hmm	14:52
napsy_	undefined reference to `fullscreen'	14:52
melmoth	should be recognise by any top window (gtk or hildon)	14:53
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napsy_	ok	14:54
luogni	napsy_, gtk_window_fullscreen (....) and gtk_window_unfullscreen (...) look at the gtk reference guide!	14:55
napsy_	ok tnx	14:55
luogni	np	14:55
crashanddie	aquatix, same here, default media player works fine :)	14:56
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lopz	hola	15:01
napsy_	hm strange I get a segfault if I try to fullscreen the window	15:03
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melmoth	random idea: try to fullscreen it later on (just in case it was not exisiting or displayed where you try)	15:04
napsy_	ok	15:05
RST38h	napsy: it means that something in your window is broken	15:05
napsy_	well it works fine if I don't call _fullscreen()	15:06
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napsy_	ok it works now	15:11
RST38h	napsy: try disabling all the widgets and see if it starts working	15:11
RST38h	what was it?	15:11
napsy_	when I was commenting out hildon code I forgot that Hildon Program wasn't allocated	15:11
solmumaha	napsy_: what does your app do?	15:12
RST38h	urgh	15:12
RST38h	that will do it for you.	15:12
napsy_	solmumaha, it simmulates something .. sry I can't go into details :-)	15:13
melmoth	it sure stimulate our curiosity	15:13
napsy_	:)	15:15
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lcuk	it simulates seg faults	15:17
lcuk	very good at it as well	15:17
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lcuk	faster and more accurate than anything	15:18
lcuk	even in fullscreen now	15:18
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RST38h	Hey, gentlemen, I have got a strange question	15:21
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RST38h	When you have your tablet laying somewhere and an email comes, it will start flashing that little envelope icon at the left bottom corner of the screen right?	15:22
hrw	RST38h: I had that way	15:22
RST38h	What happens with the battery in this case? Will it drain the battery faster while flashing the icon?	15:22
RST38h	I know for sure that enabling scroll in the RSS reader applet drains the battery really fast. What about the email notification?	15:23
luogni	RST38h, i think (hope) the flashing will be disabled when the screen go black	15:23
lcuk	if you are sending data to the lcd on a regular basis then yeah it will be active and will drain faster (thats common sense, not surei f its true)	15:23
RST38h	but the real question is: DOES IT flash the icon when the screen is off?	15:25
solmumaha	and does it stop flashing after a while?	15:25
lcuk	RST38h, same can be said for things like titlebar clock or the flashing cursor on searchbox	15:26
RST38h	lcuk: Title bar clock is harmless - it updates once a minute	15:26
Stskeeps	i still wonder if X refreshes the screen while screen off honestly	15:26
RST38h	Flashing searchbox cursor I have been suspecting for a long time	15:26
luogni	it doesn't stop after a while, i receive some time mails during the night and in the morning it's still flashing. i just think that it doesn't flash when the screen is off because i never have low battery in the morning..	15:27
Stskeeps	that would be a simple hack/improvement	15:27
RST38h	But it is not usually activated	15:27
lcuk	are you sure... if its out of sync timing wise, it could display the same minute number for nearly 2 minutes	15:27
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RST38h	well, rss reader with scrolling brings it down for sure, even with the screen off	15:27
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RST38h	So, I guess it is still refreshing unless application tells it not to	15:28
Stskeeps	maybe a simple screensaver that goes blank would help on things?	15:28
Stskeeps	then it doesn't get asked to redraw	15:28
RST38h	but these things initiate redraws themselves	15:28
Stskeeps	mm	15:28
lcuk	Stskeeps, then you have dual problem of one element attempting to refresh its part of the screen then being overdrawn by the blank overlapping window	15:29
GAN800	Things stop update when the screen in blank.	15:29
GAN800	s/update/updating/	15:29
infobot	GAN800 meant: Things stop updating when the screen in blank.	15:29
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Stskeeps	GAN800: cos of a hildon/gtk trick or?	15:29
lcuk	GAN800, dont be so certain. the app has to specifically listen for the correct events and handle accordingly	15:30
GAN800	Dunno the specifics, but they do.	15:30
GAN800	lcuk, and Nokia stuff does.	15:30
GAN800	As they'd be out of spec if they didn't.	15:30
lcuk	what about the known problem of rss reader drainage	15:31
GAN800	Random 3rd party shit, sure, there's uncertainty there, but we're not talking random 3rd party shit.	15:31
lcuk	apparantly still scrolling in the dark	15:31
GAN800	That should've been fixed a while ago.	15:32
GAN800	If it's not stopping, then that's a bug and should be reported	15:32
GAN800	but the spec says they stop.	15:32
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lcuk	yes, and as with everything, sometimes variations and exclusions from the spec occur and you rightly say they are bugs	15:33
RST38h	but the key is that this stoppage has to happen in response to a gtk event?	15:33
GAN800	I believe it's a dbus event.	15:33
solmumaha	i'd suspect that too	15:34
lcuk	RST38h, yes, theres events which occur centrally to tell you to essentially hibernate because you arent topdog anymore and blank unblank lock type events	15:34
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lcuk	however, im not sure how many of these events things like desktop applets are expected to listen to	15:35
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lcuk	its these events that i bail of out liqbase on, i havent got 100% info on how to handle them, so i close app as soon as they occur - better that than sit there draining battery or stuck in background	15:36
GAN800	I know for sure home applets are expected to stop when they're in the background or the screen is blanked.	15:38
lcuk	but things like rss run concurrently with other applets, what do you mean by background?	15:39
lcuk	as in when a fullapp is coveruing?	15:39
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* RST38h is not handling those events right now		15:43
RST38h	Probably should go to sleep or something	15:43
GAN800	There can only be one window on top, when the desktop isn't it, they shouldn't be doing things.	15:43
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Stskeeps	why does people want dsme for light sensor alterations? that's mce? :P	15:44
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lcuk	plugin base example here http://wiki.forum.nokia.com/index.php/Writing_a_Plug-in_for_Maemo	15:45
GAN800	I just want to be able to play with Nokia's broken sensor logic, whereever it is.	15:45
lcuk	shows the api entries called by hildon for foreground/background/statesave - but the example doesnt use them	15:45
RST38h	On the other hand, I sleep on focus-out	15:45
RST38h	Is that sufficient?	15:45
Stskeeps	GAN800: ..get a 770 and get mce.tar.gz :P	15:45
Stskeeps	from HE	15:46
lcuk	RST38h, is yours a desktop applet	15:46
crashanddie	Stskeeps, Firefox can't find the server at mce.tar.gz.	15:46
Fatal	machine check exception?	15:46
Stskeeps	crashanddie: pft	15:46
Stskeeps	:P	15:46
_\|Nix\|_	Gods below! maemo.org is /still/ horribly slow ...	15:47
RST38h	lcuk: No, normal app	15:47
GAN800	Nix, server move still isn't done, apparentlt.	15:47
_\|Nix\|_	I've literally been waiting 5 minutes for http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/	15:47
inz	lcuk, that's for the old ugly API	15:47
RST38h	lcuk: But the matter still applies	15:47
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GAN800	Fatal, machine control entity.	15:48
RST38h	Nix: The common conclusion reached this morning is that you should use email to send http requests to maemo.org from now on	15:48
_\|Nix\|_	LOL :o)	15:48
RST38h	But at least these guys started figuring out that something fishy is going on with their MySQL server	15:48
Fatal	GAN800: ok, I've only run into MCE as part of kernel output, and there it's machine check exception, I hate TLAs :)	15:48
_\|Nix\|_	"Hi!, Could you guys please attach http://maemo.org/downloads/OS2008/ to your reply to this email? TIA, and Best regards!"	15:49
_\|Nix\|_	At least the buildbot is decent.	15:49
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RST38h	Just this morning there were complainta about the buildbot	15:52
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RST38h	Apparently it tries to test an application using QEmu and SB1 version of QEmu is unreliable	15:52
_\|Nix\|_	BTW: I've uploaded a debhelper-like add-package-icon-to-package util to extras-devel: debhelper-maemo-package-icons. You simply add debian/package-name.png and put dh_maemo_package_icons to the top of the binary-arch target and dh_maemo_package_icons --remove to the bottom of binary-arch, and all packages that have package-name.png files in debian/ will have that as their package icon.	15:53
_\|Nix\|_	Whaddya think? Disastrous?	15:53
RST38h	Pure evil.	15:54
_\|Nix\|_	Egads! Why?	15:54
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Stskeeps	_\|Nix\|_: sounds good	15:56
_\|Nix\|_	Stskeeps: Sweetness ...	15:56
RST38h	What is wrong with running uuencode -m and pasting the result into control file?	15:56
* Jaffa assumes RST38h is being sarcastic.		15:57
_\|Nix\|_	RST38h: You have to keep your control file up-to-date.	15:57
* RST38h is always like that		15:57
RST38h	Nix: My icons change very rarely, isn't much of a problem...	15:57
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fijal	hello	16:07
fijal	my scratchbox just stopped working	16:07
fijal	when I try to run anything just compiled it says	16:07
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fijal	mmap: Permission denied	16:07
fijal	exact strace:	16:08
fijal	[pid 13086] mmap2(0x8000, 4096, PROT_READ\|PROT_EXEC, MAP_PRIVATE\|MAP_FIXED\|MAP_DENYWRITE, 4, 0) = -1 EACCES (Permission denied)	16:08
fijal	where 4 is a fd of executable file	16:08
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Stskeeps	"Finally, libcalmodule.so will be dropped. "	16:18
Stskeeps	no shit	16:18
Stskeeps	knew that was coming	16:19
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Robot101	Stskeeps: what does/did it do?	16:19
Stskeeps	Robot101: CAL is the area that nokia doesn't think people have the know how to get access to, with wlan mac, calibration data, and other stuff, and then keeps hiding away	16:20
Robot101	right, I know this because the flasher misidentified a prototype and destroyed the CAL block, resulting in both devices having WLAN mac address ending c0:ff:ee :P	16:21
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* Stskeeps should really document his findings so this whole charade can stop		16:23
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MangoFusion	is that cal or hal? ;)	16:26
Stskeeps	cal	16:27
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aquatix	anyone also using telepathy-haze and having a failing MSN connection?	16:28
Robot101	aquatix: I think it'll be the SSL certificate	16:28
aquatix	it even seems to segfault in the background (as i get coredumps)	16:28
aquatix	Robot101: ah	16:28
aquatix	Robot101: any idea why it worked before the latest diablo update?	16:28
aquatix	or rather, why it stopped since? :)	16:28
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Robot101	aquatix: verisign or Microsoft's certificate expired, and they issued a new one, i think	16:29
aquatix	ah, right	16:29
Robot101	aquatix: so you need newer SSL certificates in order to connect	16:29
Robot101	wjt: aquatix is seeing core dumps, so maybe it's not the SSL thing at all?	16:29
aquatix	so, erm, how to install those?	16:29
wjt	aquatix: you're using a 0.1.x haze, right?	16:29
aquatix	wjt: let me check the exact version	16:29
wjt	older hazes segv with probability 1/2 if there's an error connecting :P	16:30
aquatix	:)	16:30
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aquatix	filled up my card quite quickly btw ;)	16:30
Robot101	aquatix: will you be around in like 1 hour? we're about to go for lunch. :)	16:30
wjt	aquatix: you could see which certificates are in Debian's latest ca-certificates package but not in maemo's	16:30
aquatix	i have account-plugin-haze version 0.1-1	16:30
Robot101	wjt: maemo has libcst and magical certificate store with GUI	16:31
aquatix	Robot101: sure	16:31
wjt	oh does it really	16:31
Robot101	wjt: so you have to look in that gui	16:31
wjt	le sigh.	16:31
aquatix	Robot101: enjoy your lunch first :)	16:31
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wjt	aquatix: i'll be back in a bit	16:31
aquatix	wjt: and you too of course	16:31
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wjt	:)	16:31
Robot101	aquatix: it was a certificate added between ca-certificates 20070303-0.1 and 20080809 in Debian	16:31
aquatix	Robot101: ah :)	16:32
wjt	i wonder if i could include it in the new haze packages i was working on yesterday	16:32
Robot101	and I think it was a verisign cert or something	16:32
Robot101	wjt: yeah that might make it work	16:32
Robot101	:P	16:32
Robot101	wjt: or make the postinst poke the cert into libcst or somethibng	16:32
Robot101	*something	16:32
wjt	Robot101: right	16:32
* aquatix installed from the collabora haze repository btw		16:32
wjt	that's what i was thinking	16:32
Robot101	a job for... after lunch man!	16:32
asys3	lcuk: just installed liqbase 005 - great work!!!	16:32
aquatix	Robot101, wjt: get to lunch dammit ;)	16:32
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ctooley	I can't find the instructions for using the flasher utility for Linux.	17:13
ctooley	I'm trying to flash my N800 with Diablo	17:13
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aquatix	http://fosswire.com/2007/12/30/n800-users-flash-to-os2008/ <- first hit on google	17:15
johnx	~flashing	17:15
infobot	methinks flashing is http://wiki.maemo.org/Updating_the_tablet_firmware	17:15
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* aquatix looks for the wiki		17:15
aquatix	ah	17:15
aquatix	^ see that one ;)	17:15
* johnx practices his quick-draw		17:15
* lcuk draws a stickman		17:16
ctooley	all thanks	17:16
aquatix	:)	17:16
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whodat	is there a way to get rid of the scrollbar in terminal	17:31
* crashanddie wants to register isaid.no		17:32
lcuk	register said.no and then sell off subdomains	17:35
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jaska	your.mom.should.have.said.no?	17:38
aquatix	ghehehe	17:38
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aquatix	Robot101: back yet? :)	17:39
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wjt	he's still out, but i'm back	17:40
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RST38h	the.answer.is.no\	17:41
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sp3000	hrm, .eh is reserved	17:41
sp3000	(no it's not an alias for .ca)	17:41
RST38h	who is .eh?	17:41
sp3000	http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/.eh	17:41
RST38h	ah shit	17:42
sp3000	annoying.eh	17:42
GAN800	canadian.eh	17:42
RST38h	you evil canadian haters	17:43
RST38h	can't forget them getting n810s before the us, eh? ;)	17:44
aquatix	wjt: hey :)	17:44
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aquatix	wjt: so, erm, interested in wrapping up a new package for telepathy haze with new certs and such? :)	17:54
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wjt	aquatix: yes	17:56
Stskeeps	lcuk: what's the essense of /sys/devices/platform/dsp/state	17:56
Stskeeps	?	17:56
wjt	aquatix: did you figure out what certs are needed?	17:57
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aquatix	wjt: hm, not yet	17:57
wjt	aquatix: hopefully i'll have time one of the next few evenings to finish the new packages	17:57
wjt	aquatix: so if you don't locate the cert i will do so :)	17:57
aquatix	didn't Robot101 know which to use?	17:57
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aquatix	i can look at one of my debian machine	17:57
aquatix	+s	17:57
qwerty12	lcuk: btw, I get screen corruption in 0.0.4 too. It may be because I'm using rotation kernel or due to changes in xserver and kernel in 36-5	17:58
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aquatix	wjt: hm, frankly, i don't have a clue :)	18:04
wjt	aquatix: well, i'll get on the case asap	18:04
aquatix	the list is a bit too large too see which one is relevant for mickeysoft	18:04
wjt	sure	18:04
aquatix	some verisign one i guess	18:05
aquatix	great :)	18:05
aquatix	no hurries	18:05
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aquatix	wjt: fyi, i'm going home now; will be back in a few hours	18:25
wjt	k	18:25
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slonopotamus	qemu is totally broken :(	18:49
Stskeeps	for per-binary running? probably	18:50
Stskeeps	use a sbrsh to a qemu instead	18:50
RST38h	he cant	18:50
slonopotamus	:D	18:50
slonopotamus	you knew ;)	18:51
RST38h	hrw says that sb1 qemu version is outdated	18:51
RST38h	and autobuilder uses sb1	18:52
slonopotamus	i don't have any package with tests that successfully built in qemu	18:52
slonopotamus	that's bad	18:52
RST38h	it is probably some really small detail	18:53
RST38h	for me it was the open file dialog - made me switch to the real device	18:53
slonopotamus	let's put some n8x0 as armel builders?	18:54
RST38h	or just make a realistic submission procedure	18:54
Stskeeps	or just beagleboards. they'd fit in nicely together with the 770s running maemo.org	18:54
slonopotamus	:)	18:55
Stskeeps	(major improvement	18:55
RST38h	that takes into account stuff that is broken	18:55
RST38h	ok, off to the subway	18:55
* Stskeeps goes compile maemo-gtk for debian to see how badly it breaks.		18:55
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GAN800	I talked with tekojo a bit about Beagles	18:56
slonopotamus	what's the point in having fast but incompatible builder?	18:56
GAN800	that'd be quite cool.	18:56
Stskeeps	maemo on beagles or?	18:57
GAN800	For the builder	18:58
Stskeeps	ah	18:58
slonopotamus	is it possible to use debian repos directly from deblet?	18:58
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Stskeeps	slonopotamus: we use debian repos as main source	19:00
Stskeeps	then we put stuff on top	19:00
slonopotamus	oh	19:02
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slonopotamus	that's good. are you based in lenny?	19:03
slonopotamus	on	19:03
Stskeeps	it's up to what you select in installer	19:03
Stskeeps	sid or lenny	19:03
Stskeeps	etch doesn't exist for armel properly so	19:03
slonopotamus	hmm...	19:03
slonopotamus	sid and lenny have different versions of libc, right?	19:04
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Stskeeps	no clue, i guess lenny is based on current sid isn't it?	19:04
Stskeeps	lenny is next stable release	19:04
slonopotamus	visa versa	19:05
slonopotamus	hmm...	19:05
slonopotamus	or maybe i'm wrong	19:05
slonopotamus	anyway. i don't think you can use same binaries in lenny _and_ in sid	19:06
Stskeeps	well, they obviously branched lenny at some point :P	19:06
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: libc is mostly backwards compatible though.	19:06
Stskeeps	ABI wise	19:06
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slonopotamus	libdb's debiaan/rules has pretty variable VERY_BROKEN_ARCHES :) i love it	19:08
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slonopotamus	https://garage.maemo.org/builder/diablo/fakeroot_1.9.5maemo1/i386.root.log.FAILED.txt	19:08
slonopotamus	is it ok?	19:08
slonopotamus	it built perfectly for armel	19:09
slonopotamus	(after disabling tests)	19:09
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Khertan_n810	Hi everyone !	19:11
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Mousey	hi	19:12
qwerty12	Hello Khertan_n810, haven't seen you in a while :)	19:12
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qwerty12	I need to do your theme border hack again, the borders are fugly >.<	19:12
Khertan_n810	There is something that i don t understand with python thread what exactly gtk.gdk.threads_enter() do ?	19:13
Khertan_n810	hi qwerty12, yep i was ill	19:13
slonopotamus	so. instead of building package for one environment, i need to build it for three: qemu, x86 and armel. all of them have different packages and tools. this drives me crazy.	19:13
inz	Khertan, locks the "gdk core"	19:14
inz	Khertan, you should only do anything gdk (and most of gtk too) if you have the lock	19:14
* Stskeeps shakes his head		19:15
Stskeeps	how can gdk compiling fail with.. gdk include file error	19:15
slonopotamus	why do we sign upload packages if 'dpkg-source: warning: could not verify signature on ./fakeroot_1.9.5maemo1.dsc since gpg isn't installed'	19:15
slonopotamus	?	19:15
Stskeeps	slonopotamus: that's a neat question	19:15
slonopotamus	:) this world is broken somehow	19:16
Khertan_n810	because a tool need it	19:16
Khertan_n810	i create a process in which i get event and update the StoreList	19:16
Khertan_n810	each time user click on a button to see an other date i create an other process	19:17
Khertan_n810	it s result in a storelist with wrong result in it if previous process wasn t ended	19:18
Khertan_n810	so before creating process i create a new storelist	19:18
Khertan_n810	but it seems old process still insert value in the new one	19:19
Khertan_n810	is there some cache in treeview ?	19:19
Khertan_n810	queue isn t an option it ll really slow navigation when switching month	19:20
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Khertan_n810	hum my problem doen st seems to interest someone	19:22
Khertan_n810	:)	19:22
slonopotamus	:)	19:23
slonopotamus	that's normal	19:23
Khertan_n810	a simple way will be to kill process but it s not possible in python	19:24
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Khertan_n810	ping	19:34
Stskeeps	pong	19:35
Mousey	RST	19:35
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* qwerty12 decides between aufs and unionfs 2.x		19:38
* qwerty12 just realised how exciting that sounds		19:39
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johnx	qwerty12, having a choice?	19:40
ccooke	qwerty12: well, which one? :-)	19:40
qwerty12	johnx: deciding between aufs and unionfs :P. I compiled unionfs modules for the tablet last time so I'll go with aufs :)	19:40
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qwerty12	ccooke: aufs :). Their page says unionfs 2.x copies stuff from aufs so I go with the authentic stuff :)	19:41
johnx	qwerty12, you'll have to tell me how it goes. I'm somewhat curious :)	19:41
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ccooke	qwerty12: Thought so :-)	19:42
ccooke	(it looks the more vibrant project)	19:42
Stskeeps	qwerty12: what was the problem last time with unionfs?	19:42
Stskeeps	kernel needed recompile too?	19:42
qwerty12	johnx: sure, I just got to wait for this diablo kernel to compile. I keep having a 37.5kb patch which I have to keep updating when new ssu is out :)	19:42
qwerty12	Stskeeps: yep, I had to make the kernel export an extra symbol	19:43
johnx	qwerty12, gotta push those changes upstream :P	19:43
Stskeeps	qwerty12: is that such a problem to push a unionfs+rotated+etc kernel?	19:43
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qwerty12	johnx: It's just patches mainly by others. I think the only thing I've done is remove the EAC: play enabled, rec disabled messages because they were so annoying to me	19:44
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qwerty12	Stskeeps: No idea :P	19:44
johnx	ahaha	19:44
Stskeeps	johnx: i'm going to try to compile maemo-gtk.	19:44
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johnx	Stskeeps, hmm...	19:45
cyrus__	What is VDSO support? I am tyring to install the maemo SDK and it complains that I have to disable this	19:45
Stskeeps	johnx: well it is gtk2.12 based so	19:46
Stskeeps	it's usually gtkmm people complain about afaik	19:46
Stskeeps	:P	19:46
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l7	hello	19:49
l7	anyone have opinions on who makes the best 16gb SDHC card?	19:50
l7	trascend vs patriot vs adata?	19:50
GAN800	Usually the answer is 'SanDisk'	19:50
l7	i've heard adata cards are a little flimsy compared to patriot	19:50
l7	hmm	19:50
cyrus__	VDSO support in the kernel, anyone know what this is?	19:50
GAN800	But they're also usually several orders of magnitude more expensive.	19:50
Stskeeps	cyrus__: there's a notice about it regarding ubuntu i thin	19:50
Stskeeps	k	19:50
l7	GAN800: yeah the sandisk 16gb is 65 bucks on newegg	19:51
GAN800	I have Transcend cards and AData cards, I've never had an issue with either.	19:51
l7	their compeititors are 30-40	19:51
johnx	cyrus__, if you google VDSO maemo sdk you'll get a faster answer than here I think	19:51
GAN800	I know other people who have had nothing but issues with both.	19:51
l7	hmm	19:51
l7	why is adata priced as the cheapest one at 30?	19:51
johnx	l7, my adata cards are not holding up so well	19:52
l7	i have an adata and haven't had a problem with	19:52
l7	johnx: what is wrong with them?	19:52
GAN800	I'd just go with the newegg reviews for any particular card.	19:52
johnx	getting I/O errors when using them with ext2/3	19:52
johnx	under normal use they're fine	19:52
johnx	normal = digital camera or music storage, formatted vfat	19:52
l7	yeah, the newegg reviews for the adata transcend and patriot are all good, though there are a few dissenting voices	19:53
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l7	hmm	19:53
l7	vfat = fat32?	19:54
johnx	yeah	19:54
l7	i guess the n800 format function format SD media then	19:55
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summatusmentis	hmm... is there still a market for n810s?	19:56
l7	i guess the n800 format function format SD media as vfat then	19:56
l7	bleh, editing	19:56
johnx	l7, correct. probably fat16 for <=2GB cards and fat32 for >=4GB cards	19:57
l7	any idea why the adata cards have issues with ext2/3?	19:57
Stskeeps	summatusmentis: probably	19:58
l7	i like the idea of using an SD card as a USB boot device	19:59
johnx	l7, I'm not sure if it has to do with the fs, or that they tend to have badblocks that only show up under heavier write usage	19:59
johnx	the fs thing could be a red herring when in fact they might not have many spare blocks reserved to cover failing blocks	19:59
johnx	^conjecture^	19:59
l7	hmm there's some specs on the adata at http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16820211245 it says it has the card has "Enhanced DSC function"	20:00
Stskeeps	Die Soon as i Can?	20:01
Stskeeps	:P	20:01
l7	have you been able to use ext2/3 file systems on cards not made by adata?	20:01
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johnx	yeah, strangely the other offbrand I use "ALL-WAYS" seems to be fine	20:01
johnx	but I've had bad luck with PQI as well as an older lexar card	20:01
l7	heh, which brand is it?	20:01
l7	i suppose i'll do some tests on my old adata 8gb card later	20:02
johnx	I've also been swapping to my cards, I'm sure that's no good for them either	20:02
johnx	next time, maybe I'll try transcend	20:03
smackpotato	any hints on installing minigpsd. my gps-utils-tools is to high version	20:04
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Khertan_n810	hi again	20:05
Khertan_n810	:)	20:05
Khertan_n810	still about threading in python ...	20:05
Khertan_n810	creating 10 thread seems to freeze all the maemo ui	20:05
Khertan_n810	is it normal ?	20:05
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Khertan_n810	as i think there are some priorities set for maemo ui	20:07
Khertan_n810	anyway i don t see anyway to set priority on python thread	20:08
Khertan_n810	hum ...	20:09
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l7	johnx: have you tried patriot for ext2/3 yet?	20:12
johnx	l7, I haven't. only cheap cards :D	20:12
l7	heh	20:12
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johnx	well, even cheaper than patriot I should say	20:12
l7	patriot and trascend 16gbs are both about 40	20:12
l7	though i did see a deal last august where the patriot 16gb was $30 after rebates	20:13
summatusmentis	Stskeeps: I ask because I'm not using mine enough, and I need a new iPod	20:13
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johnx	l7, prices depend on one's location :)	20:13
l7	heh	20:13
l7	fatwallet is a good source	20:13
johnx	summatusmentis, it looks like they're selling for reasonable rates still	20:14
l7	though i guess if you are outside the US, it might be more expensive to pay for intl shipping on some deals	20:14
johnx	l7, exactly. shipping can quickly end up more expensive than the product shipped	20:14
summatusmentis	johnx: cool	20:14
Khertan_n810	l7 > this is so high in france due to tax that it s still a good deal with high shipping price	20:15
Khertan_n810	tax here is higher than the product itself	20:15
l7	wow, VAT must be a killer	20:15
Khertan_n810	(tax for piracy on all storage product)	20:16
l7	though maybe when the euro was stronger vs the dollar, it might have been a sweeter deal	20:16
l7	ouch	20:16
Khertan_n810	(indexed for hard drive on Go capacity)	20:16
lcuk	afternoone Khertan_n810	20:16
l7	ah, that's a really stupid tax	20:16
Khertan_n810	(but in Mo for sdcard as law haven t be updated)	20:16
l7	nice way to hinder innovation	20:16
Khertan_n810	hi lcuk	20:16
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* lcuk tried threading in liqbase		20:17
Khertan_n810	l7 : france / innovation ... do you not see the problem ? :)	20:17
lcuk	i took it out again almost instantly and found a better alternative	20:17
Khertan_n810	lol lcuk	20:17
Khertan_n810	i m threading mCalendar	20:17
l7	Khertan_n810: :)	20:17
lcuk	good luck with that one Khertan_n810	20:18
lcuk	where do you need threads for though?	20:18
qwerty12	johnx: http://qwerty12.maemobox.org/screenies/temp.png - Any ideas :D? I'm tempted to go with last option...	20:18
Khertan_n810	and the pain at this time is founding way to prioritize thread	20:18
l7	Khertan_n810: do other EU countries have lower taxes as far as VAT and media piracy tax?	20:18
Khertan_n810	as python don t bother of priority in thread	20:18
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Khertan_n810	l7 : yep, don t say it but many here bought media in germany :)	20:19
lcuk	Khertan_n810, what are you actually threading though, is it network connections or loading and rendering etc	20:19
johnx	qwerty12, well it is a higher number... What's the option about? branches of what?	20:19
Khertan_n810	networking was already threaded	20:19
l7	Khertan_n810: heh sweet	20:19
Khertan_n810	but no i m threading all the other thing	20:20
Khertan_n810	and separating ui and event management	20:20
Khertan_n810	into a framework	20:20
qwerty12	johnx: I think branches are unions in aufs - how much folders it will branch together maximum. I want to go with maximum but at the same time, I keep wondering why it's an option. Maybe allowing for more branches uses more memory?	20:20
Khertan_n810	to be able to access data from other applications easily	20:20
lcuk	when i am loading sketches, i chose initially to load a sketch, render a frame, load a sketch, render frame. when i put the loading into its own thread it killed everything	20:21
Khertan_n810	lol	20:21
lcuk	so i reverted to the old way and it works better	20:21
lcuk	and i can stop loading if i am busy :) just find something which works for you	20:21
Khertan_n810	yep ... i freeze the maemo ui when around ten thread are running	20:21
johnx	qwerty12, yeah, it would be strange to make it a compile time option unless it affected performance. or maybe it's a safety feature to prevent users from using it for some kind of DoS attack on your server?	20:22
lcuk	it depends what the 10 threads are there for, it does sound like an awful lot	20:22
Khertan_n810	10 thread retrieving and parsing events in the sqlite database	20:23
l7	hmm, has anyone had problems with the plastic on their SD card breaking or cracking?	20:23
l7	http://www.newegg.com/Product/ProductReview.aspx?Item=20-211-245&SortField=1&SummaryType=0&Pagesize=100&SelectedRating=-1&PurchaseMark=&VideoOnlyMark=False&VendorMark=&Page=1&Keywords=plastic&=1&=100	20:23
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lcuk	ahhh, all trying to access the main database	20:23
lcuk	all having their own concurrency and locking issues	20:23
Khertan_n810	yep but in a read only way	20:23
lcuk	i dont think sqlite is thread safe either (I might be totally wrong)	20:23
Khertan_n810	so no concurrency	20:23
lcuk	i remember something tohugh	20:23
qwerty12	johnx: Hmm, I never thought of the second idea. I can't seem to find anything in it's README. I'll go with 32767 and see if I notice any adverse effects later :)	20:23
qwerty12	s/it's/its	20:24
Khertan_n810	not thread safe	20:24
Stskeeps	l7: no, but people have had their sd slot gooey and wet	20:24
Stskeeps	:P	20:24
Khertan_n810	but openning and closing in a thread is sae	20:24
lcuk	but how do you know if one thread has not already opened it	20:25
l7	Stskeeps: that makes no sense :p	20:25
Khertan_n810	don t know ... but you can open several instance in read only	20:25
qwerty12	l7: Not an sd card, but my cousin once had a fake 1gb memory stick pro duo in his psp and the card melted. He was pissed :p	20:26
Stskeeps	l7: http://internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?t=23001	20:26
lcuk	khertan, you open and close the database lots? owuld you be better with a single gatekeeper process running which talks directly to the database, the other actors in your scene all talk to this one main DB connection	20:26
Stskeeps	l7: (best thread ever)	20:26
Khertan_n810	lcuk ... yep but require a lot of coding	20:27
lcuk	heh yeah i know, have you tried it totally without threading initially	20:27
lcuk	l7, that thread is so good the only thing which could make it better is bacon	20:28
Khertan_n810	nope ... a beer could do it also ...	20:28
Khertan_n810	:)	20:28
l7	haha	20:28
lcuk	only if its washing the bacon down	20:29
l7	well i wonder if it's a blow capacitor or battery leak	20:29
Stskeeps	read it through for a surprise	20:29
lcuk	no, he left it in a damp place	20:29
l7	still on page 2	20:29
lcuk	we diagnosed it with him i believe	20:29
l7	condensation?	20:29
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lcuk	there was something (a banana i think) in a pocket and it went mouldy	20:29
l7	i mean how wet was it?	20:29
l7	oh gross	20:30
Stskeeps	a wet slot, how wet could it be? :P	20:30
l7	haha	20:30
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lcuk	I just found a rotting banana in the bottom of the big pocket of my backpack where I keep the tablet. It must have been there for days, maybe a week. What a ****ing tool I am!	20:30
l7	well, it's good to know the n800 doesn't have too many capacitor or battery leaks	20:30
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lcuk	it has bugs	20:30
l7	ugh	20:30
lcuk	so that explains the moisture and the creatures	20:30
johnx	yeah, the n800 physical construction is terrifyingly solid	20:30
lcuk	compact and functional	20:31
l7	hmm, i'm glad i got my n800 for like $200 before they went out of stock	20:32
l7	the n810 is still priced at like $380? crazy	20:32
johnx	it was down to $300 for a while, but I think it's coming back up?	20:33
lcuk	probably the wimax thing	20:34
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l7	is wimax really worth it?	20:34
lcuk	wifi internet with cellphone coverage	20:34
johnx	l7, do you live in a city with wimax?	20:34
lcuk	depending upon usage and location it can be amazing, no more need to tether to a phone, simply use it	20:35
l7	is there a list of cities that have wimax?	20:35
johnx	l7, not really	20:35
lcuk	l7, just keep your eye out locally	20:35
lcuk	ive got it here in manchester i believe	20:36
l7	looks like pakistan has it	20:36
johnx	if yu live in a city with wimax i would say: definitely worth it. no wimax near you = not worth it	20:36
lcuk	lol johnx, you speak like a highly paid consultant	20:36
l7	i don't really want to pay for wimax though :)	20:37
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lcuk	then dont get a wimax device :) some people value what it offers	20:37
johnx	l7, well, you answered your own question then :P	20:37
l7	hmm it looks like sprint is rolling out wimax in the us	20:37
l7	open access sounds nice though, $55 a month is rather pricey	20:38
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* lcuk wants devices charged up		20:39
lcuk	johnx, both were flat as a pancake this morning, and both were charged last night	20:39
johnx	lcuk, charge. them. overnight. :P	20:39
johnx	you sleep, they sleep, everyone wins	20:39
lcuk	only 1 charger lol, but i dont leave it charging overnight - the charger is near the computer and i dont trust the kids not to drop shit on em if i leave em out	20:40
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johnx	yeah, I end up pulling my charger and carrying it from computer to near bed when I want to read/surf in bed	20:40
qwerty12	lcuk: 1 charger? what's your secret?	20:40
johnx	where's my bedside stand with contactless charger? and my flying car?	20:41
l7	hmm, speaking of batteries, how do you guys get the n800 battery out?	20:41
* qwerty12 used a knife at the start		20:41
l7	it seems to be jammed in there really tight	20:41
johnx	l7, at first I just stuck a credit card in there	20:41
johnx	now I can just smack the other side of the device and it comes out	20:41
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lcuk	johnx you rebel	20:42
l7	eh, i'm rather afraid to smack the device	20:42
Stskeeps	l7: i use a flat screwdriver and pop at the bottom (away from the connector)	20:42
Stskeeps	:P	20:42
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Stskeeps	.. at first i used stylus but it didn't work that well	20:43
l7	i tried the screwdriver method near the connector	20:43
l7	that was a mistake	20:43
Stskeeps	yeah	20:43
Stskeeps	:P	20:43
l7	it caused a sort of spark the battery went dead	20:43
lcuk	no1's screwing around with my device	20:43
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l7	but it recharged okay after a day	20:43
l7	very strange	20:43
lcuk	on the 810 if you so much as touch the back panel it falls off and the battery follows it	20:43
l7	sounds like a good thing	20:43
l7	if the back panel stays on	20:44
l7	you know, nokia should include one of those ribbons like those old AA battery powered devices	20:44
l7	to make it easier to pull the battery out	20:44
johnx	you can make one with tape	20:44
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l7	yeah	20:45
l7	once you get the damned thing out ;)	20:45
l7	i was thinking of dental floss	20:45
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johnx	credit card you don't need, side opposite from the contact	20:45
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RST38h	then you would miss the opportunity to pop the battery out with your tongue	20:45
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RST38h	and that would be a shame. too easy.	20:45
Stskeeps	mm. oral love with your tablet.	20:45
Stskeeps	we've already established it's female :P	20:45
* lcuk has an old nokia phone, the battery wont come out cos i superglued the fecker in there along with wires for my laser		20:46
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lcuk	hmmm	20:47
lcuk	hahah the laser still works - its had one charge and used to run out of its button batteries really quickly	20:47
* lcuk blinds everyone in the room		20:48
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RST38h	Greetings.	21:14
RST38h	Young sausage - Delicious Woman.	21:14
RST38h	Sincerely, Kathy Alexander.	21:14
RST38h	What the hell are they advertizing again?	21:15
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RST38h	qwerty	21:15
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qwerty12_N800	RST38h	21:15
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johnx	qwerty12_N800, hey, did you know someone is going around called qwerty15 on the pandora forums?	21:15
lardman	an imposter!	21:16
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qwerty12_N800	johnx, lol, i know a qwerty123 :D. + i have qwerty12.exe...	21:16
qwerty12_N800	hi lardman :)	21:16
lardman	hey qwerty12_N800	21:16
aquatix	wjt: re	21:17
aquatix	and hi everybody else of course ;)	21:17
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* qwerty12_N800 quite likes the give statusbar bluetooth thing		21:18
qwerty12_N800	hi aquatix	21:18
aquatix	hey qwerty12_N800 :)	21:18
Sargun_Screen	he lo	21:18
aquatix	ooh, there's a statusbar bluetooth thing?	21:19
Sargun_Screen	han dw r	21:19
Sargun_Screen	nmph	21:19
lcuk	i guess they havent fixed handwriting recognition yet	21:19
aquatix	obviously	21:20
Sargun_Screen	7.	21:20
* lcuk has an algo for that in liqbase		21:20
Sargun_Screen	?	21:20
* lcuk will develop it further soon		21:20
aquatix	handwriting recognition? neat	21:20
Sargun_Screen	Ve ry	21:21
aquatix	g	21:21
Sargun_Screen	lf it worKS	21:22
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derf	Online gesture recognition, or offline character matching?	21:22
aquatix	or catting of /dev/urandom	21:22
qwerty12_N800	aquatix, http://www.matetelki.com/give/ - plays havoc with hildon-desktop though... it messes up text labels. i grabbed the source this morning and removed the locale code and now it works fine	21:23
aquatix	qwerty12_N800: interesting	21:23
aquatix	hm, i like the theme in those screenshots	21:24
RST38h	qwerty: extras? =)	21:24
qwerty12_N800	RST38h, it's not mine to shift :), plus it messes up hildon-desktop when you disable it :/	21:25
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RST38h	umgh	21:27
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lcuk	derf - was that directed at me	21:28
qwerty12_N800	RST38h, btw, why upload emutools in non-free when you release source? :)	21:28
RST38h	qwerty: you should ask slonopotamus about that	21:29
qwerty12_N800	qemu problems? :/	21:29
RST38h	besides, they are not GPLed so not free in Richard Stallman definition :)	21:29
Stskeeps	qwerty12_N800: that's an interesting app	21:29
RST38h	qwerty: yep	21:29
Stskeeps	ten bucks the guy ends up hired by nokia and we never see a open version again ;)	21:30
derf	lcuk: Yes.	21:30
qwerty12_N800	RST38h, ahh :). it was more out of curiosity that i asked	21:30
lcuk	just stroke recognition at present, but it will grow with time	21:30
qwerty12_N800	Stskeeps, lol, if u wanna try it, grab this deb: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php?p=233128#post233128	21:31
derf	So I assume you mean the former, then.	21:31
lcuk	im hoping to use the collection of sketches built in liqbase as customised personal dictionary :)	21:31
RST38h	Sts: Why do you need an open version if you do not intend to modify it?	21:31
lcuk	yeah	21:31
derf	I do research in this field also, you see.	21:32
Stskeeps	RST38h: for when developer gets run over by a bus and software underneath/API changes?	21:32
RST38h	ts: but you are till not modifying the code!	21:32
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qwerty12_N800	Stskeeps, you seem to have a fantasy of people getting run over by buses :p	21:33
lardman	derf: I've just checked out your qrcode, what's the status?	21:33
Stskeeps	chant information should be free! .. or something, really - i don't have a proper view on properitary vs open honestly	21:33
derf	lardman: It should build and run and decode things.	21:33
lardman	cool :)	21:33
johnx	qwerty12_N800, standard IT thing. always consider the "run over by bus scenario"	21:33
Stskeeps	qwerty12_N800: yeah, like, when nokia gets run over by a bus	21:33
derf	The binarization part needs some work (it is slow and tends to over-thin dark regions).	21:34
Sargun_Screen	nokia getting run over by a bus would be bad	21:34
lardman	derf: does it run from the reader.c program? From a png?	21:34
derf	lardman: Yes.	21:34
derf	There should be a Makefile in the unix directory.	21:35
qwerty12_N800	johnx, I see :), never come across it before. btw, i have an aufs.ko sitting on my computer. i'll upload it tommorow :)	21:35
lardman	derf: have you implemented the code to accept non-optimally aligned images?	21:35
qwerty12_N800	Stskeeps, lol	21:35
derf	Aligned?	21:35
lardman	well the corners not being at right angles, etc.	21:35
derf	Yes... that would be most of the 4000 lines in qrdec.c.	21:36
lcuk	heh, cool derf :) in liqbase after every stroke is drawn it outputs the identified stroke code, its only normalized stroke laid over a simple grid but it appears to give consistent results for now	21:36
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derf	lcuk: Ultimately you want to use a Hidden Markov Model.	21:36
Stskeeps	qwerty12_N800: sounds good, "Would you like to use your SD as extended space for your Maemo"	21:36
lardman	derf: :) ok, just asking as I thought I'd borrow code to align images for the pdf417 code	21:36
derf	Because you're doing things online, you have a well-defined path for the 1-D optimization of an HMM to follow.	21:36
derf	lardman: It's very dependent on the finder patterns and other details of the QR code.	21:37
lardman	derf: ok	21:37
lcuk	derf, thanks for the tip :) then i dive back into it and am scratchin my head about it ill look more :)	21:37
derf	You can certainly pull out the code that actually does the projections, and there's some other geometry stuff that might be reusable.	21:37
qwerty12_N800	Stskeeps, the nice thing is that i don't need to run a modified kernel with it. they do have a speed patch for aufs that is used with a patched kernel that can raise performance though	21:38
derf	But the part that actually estimates the transforms relies on being able to identify those patterns.	21:38
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derf	I assume for PDF417 you'd be trying to identify the quiet zone/start pattern and fit lines to the edges of the pattern.	21:40
lardman	basically yes that's my thought	21:41
derf	Not too difficult, but a lot harder to pick out the pattern with a lot of background clutter.	21:42
lardman	I thought a number of horizontal lines to establish if the pattern exists, then to establish the positioning of the ends, then work up those to the tops and work out the top & bottom	21:42
derf	Yeah, certainly a lot easier than the datamatrix one.	21:44
derf	I would want to handle a pattern in general position, not just approximately horizontal, but that's just me.	21:44
lardman	the wonders of 1.5D ;)	21:44
lardman	you mean for the initial search?	21:45
derf	It's not that datamatrix is 2D, it's that it has no equivalent for the start codes/finder patterns that you can search for in the image.	21:45
derf	lardman: Yes.	21:45
lardman	derf: Ideally one would perform arbitrary searches for the start bars, however quick is better than perfect, the user can just make sure he aligns it approximately	21:46
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derf	Well, the ratios between segment lengths in the start codes should be somewhat insensitive to rotation.	21:47
derf	You just need to consider more than horizontal lines by themselves.	21:47
derf	qrdec starts with just horizontal+vertical, though I think it would be more robust with diagonal as well.	21:48
lardman	to the first point, exactly; the second - yes, but horizontal lines will establish the gradient of the end bars from which to work out the angle, etc.	21:48
lardman	ah I see	21:48
lardman	yes, certainly worth adding in as it shouldn't add much more overhead (he says) ;)	21:48
derf	lardman: Right... you'd probably be interested in the line fitting code in qrdec.	21:49
lardman	cool, will take a look	21:49
derf	Particularly the ransac bit, though you'll probably have to adapt that a bit, as its dependent on some internal data structures for convenience.	21:49
derf	And a lot of the stuff from the initial finder pattern search should carry over for your start code search, though I don't know if it's worth making fully general search code, or just keeping two similar but distinct routines.	21:50
lardman	probably worth keeping them separate, the extra code will be small and at least they can then be optimised for a given barcode type if needed	21:51
derf	Right. That's only a hundred lines or so, anyway.	21:51
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pupnik810	hi!	22:07
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pupnik810	:)	22:07
qwerty12_N800	hi pupnik810	22:07
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pupnik810	huhu!	22:09
pupnik810	who here was from amsterdam?	22:09
solmumaha	evening pupnik810	22:10
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pupnik810	hi!	22:11
solmumaha	what are you doing there?	22:11
crashanddie_	chatting, I guess	22:11
solmumaha	that much i understood	22:12
pupnik810	hehe	22:12
pupnik810	bike tour	22:12
pupnik810	beautiful day	22:12
pupnik810	hey i gotta dl maps for default navi prog	22:13
pupnik810	where i do this?	22:13
zap	Interesting, I can see a driver called tlv320aic33, and it's built into the kernel	22:13
zap	but the mixer controls present inside it aren't visible via ALSA	22:13
zap	anybody knows why?	22:13
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qwerty12_N800	zap, how are you checking from alsa? i think i know this one	22:15
zap	however, alsa sees a card called "OMAP24xx EAC with codec TLV320AIC33" but it has neither pcm or ctl devices on it	22:15
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zap	qwerty12_N800: sound/arm/omap/tlv320aic33.c	22:15
zakkm	Just curious, does maemo use ALSA for volume?	22:16
zap	maemo uses userland ALSA plugins	22:16
zap	which work through /dev/dsp/pcm3	22:17
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zap	the array aic33_controls has a lot of interesting mixer controls... never seen 'em in alsamixer...	22:17
zakkm	I was on this channel a few days ago and someone asked to change volume and alsamixer didnt work for them, so i was wondering if ALSA was really used.	22:18
zakkm	amixer didn't work either.	22:18
qwerty12_N800	zap, k, i think i got it. n800 and n810 have a different touchscreen and TLV320AIC33 is in the n800 but not in n810	22:19
zap	alsamixer -Ddefault will show a single 'master volume' slider	22:19
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zakkm	alsamixer didnt exist for the person.	22:19
zap	qwerty12_N800: seriously? Why the driver works on 810 then?	22:19
zakkm	Anyone know where i might be able to find a cheap used N800 for $150-170 ?	22:20
zap	zakkm: that does not matter, the 'default' ALSA device should be used, not hw:0	22:20
zakkm	Toronto, Canada	22:20
zap	ebay?	22:20
zakkm	besides ebay	22:20
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zakkm	store/ anyone selling?	22:20
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zakkm	zap: no like alsamixer didnt exist in /usr/bin ...	22:20
zakkm	"command not found" or w.e it says	22:21
zap	qwerty12_N800: arch/arm/mach-omap2/n800-audio.c	22:21
qwerty12_N800	zap, i don't remember exactly but i remember seeing differences when i was porting n810 android touchscreen fix to n800	22:21
zap	qwerty12_N800: but no n810-audio.c, so I presume audio is the same	22:21
qwerty12_N800	zap, let me find the thread...	22:22
qwerty12_N800	zap, http://64.233.183.104/search?q=cache:wC3yU4zwHUEJ:www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showthread.php%3Ft%3D21719%26page%3D5+TLV320AIC33+qwerty12&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=uk	22:23
zap	hmm pretty neat, that mixer shot shows all those hidden controls	22:24
zap	I wonder why alsamixer does not see them...	22:24
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zap	hmm, TSC2301 mixer is implemented in drivers/spi/tsc2301-mixer.c	22:28
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zap	board-n800-audio covers both TSC2301 and TLV320AIC33 chips...	22:30
* moontiger is getting really bored with the crappy response times of maemo.org		22:30
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Stskeeps	moontiger: i've thought about making a service that brings up google cache instead from *.maemo.org :P	22:31
aalonso	Hi, do you now an alternative site to download the latest Diablo bin image...	22:33
Stskeeps	aalonso: if you got a windows machine the windows flasher gets it from somewhere else	22:34
aalonso	from nokia site the image download every time stops at 64%	22:34
moontiger	Stskeeps, hahaha that would be so much faster	22:34
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moontiger	seriously tho ... it doesnt inspire much when a company like nokia cant even get a damn website working properly	22:34
aalonso	Im on a debian based machine	22:35
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moontiger	aalonso, what image you trying to get?	22:35
aalonso	latest diablo release 4.2008.23-14	22:35
moontiger	i prolly have it somewhere if you would like me to host it somewhere?	22:36
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aalonso	that would be great since I have a broken n810 :( that I need to re-flash	22:37
moontiger	give me 5 mins and i'll see what i can do ;)	22:37
aalonso	thanks...	22:37
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zakkm	cant you DCC send over irc?	22:38
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moontiger	let me see if i can find it	22:38
zakkm	whats the difference between diablo and chinook ?	22:38
kpel	diablo is a newer release	22:38
zakkm	is it new UI , builtin software or anything or is it just the seamless updater?	22:39
kpel	iirc chinook was less polished	22:39
kpel	(and less finger friendly)	22:41
zakkm	Also, sorry lol, is there any way to do Tablet to PC .. videochat besides aMSN and gizmo ?	22:41
kpel	skype	22:41
kpel	well no, i tell a lie	22:42
kpel	last time i tried skype video was not supported for my n800	22:42
pupnik810	where do i ger benelux maps for navi?	22:42
pupnik810	running out of batt	22:42
pupnik810	s/ger/get	22:42
zakkm	I was told you couldnt in skype the other day?	22:42
zakkm	i wouldnt mind using a older version of skype though?	22:42
kpel	zakkm: voice works. barely. i tried skype witha friend who had an eee pc. the tablet was struggling to cope with the load	22:43
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zakkm	My nokia 770 did voice chat in google talk thingy just fine, never tried skype though	22:44
zakkm	like many months ago	22:44
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zakkm	... Moontiger .. it wasnt me who wanted	22:44
moontiger_	crap	22:44
moontiger_	sorry	22:44
zakkm	aalonso <-- wanted	22:44
moontiger_	who was it	22:44
moontiger_	oooops	22:44
moontiger_	:)	22:44
zakkm	its okay, i'm just saying.	22:45
zakkm	I was just suggesting that DCC might be better than uploading/ downloading	22:45
moontiger_	dunno depends on the upload spped i get thru my comcastic link	22:46
moontiger_	aalonso, tap tap tap	22:46
kpel	thee problem is that dcc is a pain to support out-of-the-box if you are a router manufacturer	22:46
moontiger_	if it sucks i can host on one of my servers	22:46
zakkm	Does Canola work well in diablo on n800?	22:46
zakkm	going through forum it looks like it doesnt work	22:46
aalonso	??	22:47
Stskeeps	rm_you: ta	22:47
moontiger_	dcc	22:47
moontiger_	diablo image	22:47
kpel	i tried to use it, it was slow, i gave up months ago	22:47
moontiger_	accept :)	22:47
aalonso	how do I do it	22:47
moontiger_	ummm click ok when it prompts you?	22:47
zakkm	aalonso: what irc client?	22:48
aalonso	I see the file transfer 0%	22:48
aalonso	X-chat	22:48
zakkm	dcc not working? ;p	22:49
moontiger_	aalonso, im uploading it to my server ... give it a few mins and i'll give you the link ;)	22:49
zakkm	moontiger_: personal server or remote?	22:49
moontiger_	its hosted out there on the intertubes ;)	22:50
aalonso	i just set ddc auto accept... thanks	22:50
zakkm	yeah but is it in your house or something?	22:50
zakkm	home connection?	22:50
moontiger_	no its a commercial hosted server	22:50
zakkm	oh thats cool :)	22:50
moontiger_	big fat pipe	22:50
moontiger_	upload will take 8 mins more	22:50
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moontiger_	zakkm, i do web stuff for a living mostly so i know what you were getting at	22:51
zakkm	really? cool.	22:51
moontiger_	yah ... php / mysql / apache ... all that good stuff ... and i teach it part time	22:52
zakkm	tutoring?	22:52
moontiger_	theres a college in downtown sf that i teach at	22:52
zakkm	cool :)	22:52
zakkm	i gave up on programming of all sorts.	22:53
moontiger_	how come?	22:53
zakkm	dont have the math skills.	22:53
moontiger	doesnt always need math skills	22:53
zakkm	mysql is okay cause it doesnt confuse you too much	22:53
zakkm	its more basic in a sense.	22:53
moontiger	most people have trouble with databases	22:53
zakkm	but my school teaches like JAVA and stuff..	22:53
zakkm	highschool	22:53
moontiger	designing them and implementing indexes and good queries	22:53
moontiger	you're at high school?	22:54
zakkm	yeah 12th grade.	22:54
moontiger	holy crap!	22:54
zakkm	surprised?	22:54
* moontiger feels old		22:54
zakkm	It's okay, i do it to alot of people.	22:54
moontiger	hehe	22:54
moontiger	whats 12th grade? im english so i dont get the grade stuff	22:55
zakkm	computer hobbyist.. but dont like programming/ no good at it.	22:55
zakkm	uhh	22:55
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zakkm	end of sixth form.	22:55
zakkm	last year of sixth form . i believe	22:55
moontiger	i mean how old are you in 12th grade	22:55
click170	Is there a way to tell which repository a package upgrade is from?	22:55
zakkm	year 13.. i know it doesnt go up that high but thats how many years	22:55
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zakkm	17/18/19	22:55
moontiger	ahhhhhhhhh so not like 12 or something	22:56
zakkm	oh pfft	22:56
zakkm	of course not	22:56
* moontiger feels slightly less old now		22:56
zakkm	im 18 in march.	22:56
moontiger	heh cool	22:56
moontiger	what a great fukd up world you are coming into	22:56
zakkm	haha.	22:56
Stskeeps	the challenge is knowing how bad it is, before you turn 18, so you can prepare :P	22:56
zakkm	A friend of mine says to skip college, life wont last that long.	22:56
zakkm	lol	22:57
moontiger	that might not be so leftfield	22:57
moontiger	but i wouldnt skip college	22:57
moontiger	its great fun	22:57
moontiger	:)	22:57
zakkm	no, with the whole global warming, financial state of many countries currently..	22:57
zakkm	etc etc	22:57
moontiger	yah i hear you	22:57
* Stskeeps definately prefers uni over highschool		22:57
moontiger	im leaving here soon ... heading back to europe and africa	22:57
kpel	uni ftw	22:58
zakkm	moontiger: where in the uk ?	22:58
moontiger	right now im in san francisco	22:58
pupnik810	hehe mises.org called the crisis1	22:58
moontiger	not uk	22:58
zakkm	uni, too expensive	22:58
zakkm	ah, said your english? so i figured uk	22:58
Stskeeps	uni, free tution in this country :>	22:58
Stskeeps	high taxes and student support, woop. :P	22:58
zakkm	;o what country	22:58
moontiger	i was born in london and lived there for a while so im english	22:58
Stskeeps	.dk	22:58
kpel	zakkm: depends where you live. some countries offer free education	22:58
zakkm	yeah, damn countries	22:59
moontiger	i travel ... thats my thing	22:59
zakkm	most of them are third-world too.. i don't get it.	22:59
moontiger	laptop + internet connection = happy moontiger	22:59
zakkm	moontiger: ever been to toronto?	22:59
zakkm	canada that is.	22:59
click170	Canada is not third world, and they offer free education :P	22:59
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zakkm	no they dont?	22:59
moontiger	zakkm, i know where it is but no i havent been there	22:59
zakkm	not uni / college level.	22:59
click170	Ah, nm	22:59
zakkm	I live in Toronto, Canada	22:59
click170	Vancouver	22:59
moontiger	gets cold there	22:59
click170	We should start a petition for free uni and college	23:00
moontiger	i will be going to vancouver next year	23:00
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zakkm	I KNOW its not free.. thats why im worrying about next year when im supposed to start college/uni	23:00
moontiger	i spend a lot of time in seattle too	23:00
zakkm	click170: good luck with that :)	23:00
kpel	Greece is not third world either and uni is free	23:00
moontiger	brb need to make a cup of tea	23:00
zakkm	Nah well, Ontario does you money for college/uni .. ( nondebt. free money )	23:01
click170	I'm moving to Greece now that I know they have free uni	23:01
zakkm	so it helps.. but its no where near fully paid	23:01
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zakkm	click170: the degree you get wont matter though :)	23:01
zakkm	if you move :P	23:01
kpel	zakkm: depends.	23:01
zakkm	i just mean you cant pick a country cause it has free uni :)	23:01
zakkm	just go there for uni cause its free.	23:01
click170	Am I supposed to look for free uni and free healthcare?	23:02
click170	lol	23:02
zakkm	does any country do both?	23:02
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Stskeeps	.dk :P atleast mostly	23:02
Stskeeps	dental not covered	23:02
zakkm	.dk = ?	23:02
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Stskeeps	denmark	23:02
zakkm	ah, cool.	23:02
moontiger	zakkm, uk does	23:02
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zakkm	uk doesnt have free uni ? does it?	23:02
click170	uk has free schooling?	23:02
Stskeeps	flag usually seen burnt by muslims	23:02
moontiger	afaik	23:02
kpel	also greece, france, and of course cuba	23:02
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kpel	really good doctors there	23:03
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zakkm	I know theres free health care ( family frm england.. ) but yeah im not that sure uni is free..	23:03
moontiger	aalonso, a couple minutes more then i give u the link ;)	23:03
zakkm	France sucks to live. :P	23:03
kpel	zakkm: why?	23:03
zakkm	I'm told its a terrible place to live.	23:03
aalonso	moontiger: thanks	23:03
zakkm	good for visiting.. terrible for living	23:03
kpel	were you told about france or about paris?	23:03
zakkm	France.	23:04
RST38h	free university and free healthcare? Cuba. Or North Korea.	23:04
kpel	the south of france(blue coast) is quite nice.	23:04
click170	I wouldn't say France sucks to live there unless you've travelled there	23:04
zakkm	A country you can't visit .. doesn't count. lol	23:04
click170	Theres a lot of negative hype that I think is unjustified	23:04
zakkm	north korea -.-	23:05
moontiger_	aalonso, you ready?	23:05
zakkm	The Lost City of Atlantis :O	23:05
aalonso	yep	23:05
zakkm	Just curious, Is ITT funded somehow?	23:06
lcuk	could I ask people to install the latest liqbase .deb and see whether they encounter graphical glitches, it appears a few people are getting them on first run, but then not able to reproduce. http://liqbase.net/	23:06
moontiger_	http://gagfoot.com/RX-44_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14_PRCOMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin	23:06
moontiger_	i think i got that right	23:06
moontiger_	save as and you're good to go	23:06
zakkm	Lcuk: unforunately dont have a tablet at the moment ( looking to buy another ) so i can't.	23:06
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moontiger_	http://gagfoot.com/RX-44_DIABLO_4.2008.23-14_PR_COMBINED_MR0_ARM.bin	23:07
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qwerty12_N800	lcuk, i'll test, i was getting purple glitches :)	23:07
Stskeeps	zakkm: well they have ads so	23:07
moontiger_	fuk i missed an underscore sorry	23:07
Stskeeps	zakkm: it must run around somehow	23:07
lcuk	lol zakkm, you still looking :P	23:07
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lcuk	qwerty12_N800, i can has glitches as well :D were they reproducable - ie can you start the app and get them again now?	23:07
moontiger_	aalonso, 2nd link yes?	23:08
aalonso	moontiger: I start downloading	23:08
moontiger_	awesome	23:08
moontiger_	:)	23:08
qwerty12_N800	lcuk, lol, i still have 0.0.4 if you want me to test with that or should i get 0.0.6 1st?	23:08
lcuk	try the one you have - ive not changed anything related to glitches	23:08
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zakkm	sorry, left	23:09
lcuk	because its not reproducable by even the people that report them beyond first run its a bit odd	23:09
zakkm	Of course im still looking.. i emailed this guy off craigslist, wanted $170	23:09
* moontiger sips tea		23:09
zakkm	i'm like ill buy it.. person said sold out -.-	23:09
zakkm	(yesterday)	23:09
lcuk	im starting to think its something like the "updating" list thing from application manager - or something along those lines	23:09
Stskeeps	prices may drop now n810w is out though :P	23:10
moontiger	zakkm, what u trying to buy?	23:10
zakkm	lcuk: if it doesnt reproduce, does it relaly matter?	23:10
zakkm	moontiger: N800	23:10
moontiger	from craigslist?	23:10
zakkm	used.	23:10
lcuk	zakkm, yeah it does actually	23:10
zakkm	yes	23:10
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lcuk	i wanna know how many people are effected	23:10
zakkm	moontiger: im in toronto,on .. theres many postings	23:10
moontiger	craigslist is full of flakes	23:10
lcuk	it upsets the karma - liqbase is smooth and cool and it fecks up for people and ruins their experience	23:10
zakkm	I use craigslist all the time.	23:10
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qwerty12_N800	lcuk, can't reproduce it :/	23:11
zakkm	My Headphones - $10 .. nice big headphones.. works wonders	23:11
moontiger	i do too but the flakes are getting worse and really annoying	23:11
lcuk	heh, didnt think so	23:11
zakkm	what is liqbase ?	23:11
lcuk	would you grab the latest 0.0.6 from liqbase.net and see	23:11
lcuk	zakkm, look on liqbase.net for a youtube vid	23:11
zakkm	never heard of liqbase package	23:11
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zakkm	haha its you?	23:11
lcuk	thats cos its not been packaged before about 2 weeks ago	23:11
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zakkm	lcukmaemo <-- youtube = you?	23:12
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lcuk	yes	23:12
zakkm	british accent?	23:12
lcuk	since i am lcuk and i am a part of maemo..	23:12
moontiger	hehe	23:12
lcuk	northern accent more lik	23:12
zakkm	so its for document reading?	23:13
lcuk	no, its for a lot of things :)	23:14
lcuk	its my short term meory	23:14
lcuk	and longer term meory - and designer and plaything	23:14
zakkm	hah thats so cool	23:14
lcuk	and i want to build a full designable ui one day :)	23:14
zakkm	Would it work on n800 well ?	23:14
moontiger	aalonso, you getting it ok?	23:14
lcuk	well you might have glitches on first run, but yeah	23:14
zakkm	haha i dont mind.	23:15
zakkm	I'm a nightly kind of person.	23:15
aalonso	moontiger, yes I about to re-flash	23:15
zakkm	I'm used to many bugs	23:15
* lcuk gets sick of drawing the screens he then has to code - so im gonna make them live		23:15
moontiger	ok cool	23:15
lcuk	moontiger, would you test it please :$	23:15
moontiger	interesting idea lcuk	23:15
moontiger	i did ... is there a new version?	23:15
lcuk	did you encounter glitches?	23:15
moontiger	not that i noticed no ... flawless afaik	23:16
lcuk	errr not really tonnes of new stuff, ive been doing mainly background work and seeing if i can get some sort of multitouch thing working	23:16
moontiger	ahhhhhhhhhh i can try the new version for sure	23:16
lcuk	the new stuff will come back once ive finished ironing out this bug and actually start work again	23:16
zakkm	ooo will a flashdrive work on the nokia ?	23:16
moontiger	dont you need hardware support for multi-touch?	23:16
lcuk	yes if its under 100ma - or if you use a powered hub	23:16
pupnik810	i am idiot -- in wayfinder click 'maps' :) benelux installed	23:16
zakkm	sick :P	23:17
lcuk	moontiger, see for yourself	23:17
* moontiger smiles		23:17
zakkm	I dont know the n800 but is all i need is the n800 and the flashdrive.. or is some small connector required?	23:17
lcuk	http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=233054&postcount=144	23:17
zakkm	if its under 100ma that is	23:17
Stskeeps	zakkm: you're off better with a sd often	23:17
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lcuk	zakkm, if you have decided to get 800 just use normal cards	23:17
zakkm	yes but i know many ppl in school with flash drives because of the work itself.	23:17
zakkm	So for me being able to put it in.. and view documents/ videos on the nokia would be nice	23:18
Stskeeps	lcuk: instant graphical glitchh	23:18
lcuk	moontiger, the link i just posted explains my thinking about multitouch	23:18
zakkm	yes i would use SD for myself, but for other people i mean.	23:18
pupnik810	hi lcuk!	23:18
lcuk	hiya pupnik810 ! :D hows it hanging	23:18
lcuk	Stskeeps, oh no, come out and go back in	23:18
Stskeeps	lcuk: happens already in username :P	23:18
* lcuk is formulating a plan: start liqbase and make it restart itself ;)		23:18
zakkm	This might sound weird, but how well does GIMP perform on n800 ?	23:18
Stskeeps	lcuk: didn't use liqbase on maemo before	23:19
lcuk	ahhh what did you try it on	23:19
zakkm	lcuk: can't you just remove all the temp files.. and make it reproduce the glitch?	23:19
Stskeeps	lcuk: works after restart	23:19
Stskeeps	deblet initially	23:19
Stskeeps	then maemo now	23:19
zakkm	so its like starting it for first time?	23:19
Stskeeps	where first install messed up	23:19
lcuk	zakkm i just tried that multiple times	23:19
zakkm	oh	23:19
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lcuk	zakkm, i have reproduced this once on my own device on firstrun	23:19
lcuk	i have had graphical glitches very very occasionally a long time ago	23:20
lcuk	but i think those were different to this	23:20
Stskeeps	lcuk: mine was firstrun as well	23:20
lcuk	Stskeeps, so is it fine now/	23:20
aalonso	my n810 is working again :)	23:20
zakkm	lcuk: did you create liqbase or are you porting it?	23:21
lcuk	100% native on the device (even compiling on it)	23:21
Stskeeps	lcuk: yeah	23:21
lcuk	hmmm then	23:21
zakkm	ah, wish i could afford a n810	23:22
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lcuk	zakkm, actually i tell a lie, i started in vmware scratchbox but got annoyed, so i installed gcc on device and have used it ever since	23:22
zakkm	haha	23:22
lcuk	i dont code most of the time with it lol - i use ssh	23:22
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zakkm	what is it coded in?	23:22
lcuk	though the graffiti wall is a child of the dev centre at linuxtag :)	23:22
lcuk	c	23:22
zakkm	i know this sounds really weird and probably very stupid but you know like clustering right? to give instructions to another PC..	23:24
Stskeeps	lcuk: your multitouch stuff might actually work	23:24
zakkm	i think its called clustering	23:24
zakkm	in mac its xgrid ?	23:24
zakkm	Would that technically work on the N800?	23:25
lcuk	should do yeah	23:26
lcuk	Stskeeps, :) it works well enough as proof of concept	23:26
moontiger	zakkm, if you wrote a client that took work loads and shared them out it would work for sure	23:26
zakkm	like use an pc/server.. to make your n800 faster.	23:26
moontiger	lcuk, can u actually detect multiple touches o the screen?	23:27
moontiger	i didnt think the hardware reported them	23:27
Stskeeps	it's a neat approximation	23:27
Stskeeps	lcuk: what kind of algo do you use for it?	23:28
lcuk	no moontiger, i fake it - if you press and hold with your thumb, then touch with your finger the cursor jumps to centre midpoint between thumb and finger. oh, just read the notes i put a minute ago	23:28
lcuk	Stskeeps, just a simple one, but its been rolling around my head for a while	23:28
moontiger	i did read them	23:29
pupnik810	hahaha wayfinder doesnt check free space when sling map	23:29
pupnik810	dling	23:29
pupnik810	owch	23:29
lcuk	pupnik810, least of troubles, if you are on 810 and it fills the mmc2 then you are screwed unless you have repaired it previously	23:29
moontiger	lcuk, so thats a "glitch" in the hardware that you're taking advantage of?	23:29
Stskeeps	lcuk: why do i think of on screen keyboard?	23:29
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Stskeeps	hold down shift, press other buttons	23:29
lcuk	no, the hardware simply returns the average	23:29
moontiger	and the average in this case is the mid-point	23:30
lcuk	if you know there is a single fixed point you can then take the average into account and use your other finger	23:30
pupnik810	lcuk, oooops!	23:30
moontiger	wow thats a neat trick!!	23:30
lcuk	yes it is - pupnik810 remember the multitouch thing i tried to explain at linuxtag	23:30
lcuk	well ^^^ i implemented it and it seems to work ;0	23:31
pupnik810	coolll	23:31
Stskeeps	lcuk: i think you might be able to expand on this, maybe filter probabilities of thumb moving and stuff :P	23:31
zakkm	you all went to linuxtag?	23:31
qwerty12_N800	lcuk, you've made darius jack happy	23:31
lcuk	yes, and sts i need to make sure i dont try to JUMP! when i have already detected a single moving finger	23:31
moontiger	Stskeeps, or maybe note the original (thumb) position and lock it and only look for the other touch changing?	23:31
Stskeeps	perhaps	23:32
lcuk	qwerty12_N800, feck off lol - i tried to explain these things to him but he didnt listen	23:32
Stskeeps	there's definately some algorithmic possibilities	23:32
qwerty12_N800	lcuk, lol :p	23:32
Stskeeps	lcuk: better make a patent ;P	23:32
lcuk	moontiger, it does that, once it detects the cursor has jumped beyond a certain radius, it moves into flickermode - this has thumb and finger positions and tries to keep them working	23:32
lcuk	sod the patent :) i just want some security	23:32
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qwerty12_N800	lcuk, no software patents in europe!!!	23:33
qwerty12_N800	oops, stskeeps	23:33
lcuk	its open source and i want all this to be used	23:33
qwerty12_N800	:p	23:33
Stskeeps	qwerty12_N800: if it has to do with hardware interfacing..	23:33
derf	qwerty12_N800: You don't actually believe that fantasy, do you?	23:33
lcuk	the more this device is used and the more we can do with it the better it will become	23:33
lcuk	this is why im so flucked off with the glitches	23:33
Stskeeps	lcuk: there's possibilities for maybe using a bayesian model for calculating probabilities this value is useful	23:33
qwerty12_N800	derf, nope, just felt like saying it :p	23:33
lcuk	Stskeeps, keep thinking please :) i have only just started an idea	23:34
lcuk	derf! you would be an ideal person to examine what ive started	23:34
lcuk	would you install liqbase and try to be amazed at the multitouch thing	23:34
lcuk	see here: http://www.internettablettalk.com/forums/showpost.php?p=233054&postcount=144	23:35
derf	I would if my tablet was not plugged into a wall 25 miles away.	23:35
lcuk	and liqbase.net for the package :)	23:35
lcuk	damn technicalities!	23:35
lcuk	(and if people like what im doing, please thank me up in the forum ;) im a bit of a karma whore)	23:36
qwerty12_N800	lol	23:36
* qwerty12_N800 points @ Stskeeps :p		23:36
GAN800	lcuk iz newb whore.	23:36
lcuk	of course gan :D	23:37
Stskeeps	qwerty12_N800: it's mainly because that's how i work. if people appreciate my work, i know which directions to go in and it strokes my ego enough to keep working on it	23:37
lcuk	im feelin a bit down about the glitches and need cheerin up ;)	23:37
Stskeeps	else i get bored	23:37
GAN800	I could give you about 200 of mine and still be out in fron of Benson.	23:37
lcuk	lol	23:37
Stskeeps	lcuk: my screen protector is full of fingerprints now :P	23:37
lcuk	look theres the proper karma whore - knowing whos behind him in the race ;)	23:38
* moontiger goes to install the latest		23:38
lcuk	awwww Stskeeps i use liqbase so much ive knackered the screen - it doesnt work with fingers any more	23:38
* GAN800 iz pro		23:38
lcuk	N2 has to be used for that testing	23:38
pupnik810	so heh	23:38
pupnik810	lcuk eager for faster tablet now?	23:39
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GAN800	I'm so happy soft poweroff is finally working again.	23:39
qwerty12_N800	Stskeeps, i know, i'm joking. i like being thanked, it makes me feel happy that someone appricated something i done. plus, i'm not a prick when it comes to pressing the thanks button :)	23:39
lcuk	pupnik810, not really, it does what i want as fast as i want it - the only thing i see changing when i get the new one is being able to code in c++	23:39
pupnik810	best nickname seen in weeks - dholbert :)	23:39
pupnik810	hmm re-write?	23:39
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lcuk	expansion - i get frustrated with all the boilerplate i need for basic operations (mainly string handling)	23:40
pupnik810	mhm	23:40
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moontiger	lcuk how do i play with the multi-touch?	23:40
lcuk	so its either write my own compiler (not the first time..) or wait until i get c++ working fast enough	23:40
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lcuk	options/multitouch test	23:41
lcuk	its really nothing special, just indicating what its detected	23:41
GAN800	By the way, pupnik, who do you want me to convince to package up all of your awesome for Extras?	23:41
moontiger	holy crap thats cool :)	23:41
Stskeeps	lcuk: maybe using dsp / modelling multitouch as a optimization problem?	23:41
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moontiger	is memo 5 going to support c++ natively?	23:42
moontiger	maemo 5 too	23:42
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Stskeeps	maemo already supports c++? :P	23:42
pupnik810	GAN800, dunno - ill push out a new batch of releases now	23:42
moontiger	yah i know it does but with a huge assed bunch of libs	23:42
lcuk	Stskeeps, theres plenty of grunt in the cpu to model it correctly, all i am doing is selecting a breakpoint for the stroke - the first N points are the starting thumb, then everything after is halfway to the finger, it is then filtered	23:42
Stskeeps	true	23:42
lcuk	Stskeeps, yeah it does, its just slow to compile	23:43
Stskeeps	lcuk: just putting ideas out there	23:43
lcuk	its beyond my frustration threshhold	23:43
Stskeeps	consider distcc'ing to a desktop with same gcc version, from codesourcery?	23:43
moontiger	i think im going to have to go out to the park for a bit ... the weather here is gorgeous and sunny and warm :)	23:43
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lcuk	Stskeeps, i do main coding from a desktop already, but its windows - ive got vmware available to do the grunt but i hate actually editing within vmware	23:44
Stskeeps	ah	23:44
lcuk	so i edit using komodo edit directly in windows and winscp for file transfer	23:44
moontiger	lcuk, why dont you install linux?	23:44
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lcuk	partly cos its slow	23:44
moontiger	errrrrrrrrrr linux is slow?	23:44
lcuk	partly because things dont quite work as i want them to	23:45
Stskeeps	btw, lcuk: any idea what echo 2 > /sys/devices/platform/dsp/state does?	23:45
Stskeeps	(saw multimediad do it	23:45
lcuk	yes moontiger ive got a VERY optimized system here - linux appears to give me lots of very small but annoying glitches, ive never spent enough time sorting them - windows works for me, dont try to change me	23:45
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moontiger	wow ... windows xp i assume?	23:46
lcuk	yeah	23:46
* Stskeeps uses xp as well		23:46
Stskeeps	linux when i have to	23:46
moontiger	hmmmmmmmm i find my linux runs faster than even xp	23:46
Stskeeps	different tools for different jobs	23:46
moontiger	right	23:46
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glass_	depends what you run	23:46
moontiger	i only use windows for windows dev work	23:46
zakkm	Mac is the best :) ( Runs on Mac )	23:46
lcuk	xp with all the funky crap is slow as well - i keep ontop of whats needed and it runs wel	23:46
* qwerty12_N800 uses vista (upgraded from xp) + linux		23:46
lcuk	dev work in windows - .net?	23:46
moontiger	mfc / atl / some .net ... desktop and mobile	23:47
lcuk	eugh qwerty12_N800 thats worse than a livecd version of linux on a 128mb computer	23:47
lcuk	visual studio editor is sluggish as hell	23:47
zakkm	livecd on any system is bad :P	23:47
moontiger	i have a vista dual boot machine	23:47
lcuk	i refused to work in it	23:47
moontiger	it really is bad	23:47
moontiger	even if you try to like it	23:47
zakkm	anyone here like Mac OSX?	23:48
glass_	zakkm: i hate it	23:48
moontiger	not really zakkm	23:48
qwerty12_N800	lcuk, it was, but then i got to optimising it and then pimping my desktop aka making it slower and it's ok for me :p	23:48
moontiger	nice hardware ... not so nice os	23:48
lcuk	zakkm, dont dislike it, but also dont know enough to have a real impression	23:48
glass_	zakkm: also apples hw quality is crap and they market it with lies so..	23:48
zakkm	with lies?	23:48
zakkm	glass_: with lies?	23:48
moontiger	i have an ipod nano 3g ... works great with linux	23:48
zakkm	Ipodlinux?	23:49
moontiger	thats the only apple stuff i will own and that was a gift	23:49
glass_	they always overpuff the performances. like sayinga a radeon 9200 is a fast card(it never was, not even as new)	23:49
zakkm	they still work on that?	23:49
glass_	i got an ipod	23:49
glass_	160gb	23:49
moontiger	libgpod + gtkpod	23:49
glass_	the user interface is crap for 80gb of music	23:49
glass_	also it locks up randomly	23:49
moontiger	what does?	23:49
zakkm	rockbox is a nice alternative firmware.	23:49
glass_	also apple is very closed garden, which i dislike to the max	23:49
zakkm	microsoft is worse :P	23:50
glass_	no it isn't	23:50
moontiger	thats my issue too glass ... plus steve jobs makes me want to vomit	23:50
zakkm	yes it is	23:50
glass_	zakkm: i don't need to sign an nda with ms to develope for windows mobile	23:50
moontiger	and winmo is open for any apps to be installed	23:50
glass_	zakkm: etc etc.. apple is the closed garden king, have fun buying your 'certified' software in couple of years from itunes	23:50
zakkm	haha	23:51
zakkm	i run mac x86.	23:51
zakkm	got the sick atom motherboard :P	23:51
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glass_	almost everyone i know with a macbook has had it sent back at least once	23:52
moontiger	its funny seeing so many macbook pros at the ms campus	23:52
moontiger	and iphones / ipods	23:52
moontiger	thats the only time i appreciate apple	23:52
yacoob	i'd say ipod's interface is pretty good, but oh well. To each his own.	23:52
glass_	yacoob: it's ok, for couple of gigs of music	23:52
glass_	yacoob: but for 80+..	23:53
yacoob	glass_, ok, what's wrong with it?	23:53
glass_	yacoob: finding specific songs	23:53
yacoob	(I'm dealing with ~30GB)	23:53
moontiger	glass_, i have never understood keeping that much music on a portable device	23:53
moontiger	you cant possibly listen to it all	23:53
moontiger	you would die of old age first	23:53
glass_	moontiger: it's the entire music collection that i listen to	23:53
yacoob	moontiger, one word: extra backup :)	23:53
glass_	moontiger: i keep it on shuffle most of the time	23:53
* zakkm is buying nokia n800 to use as a music device too . .on a 2GB sd card.		23:53
glass_	moontiger: and i have every friggin song i got at home on the move too, if at some party or whatever	23:54
glass_	moontiger: of course the extra free space helps with sneaker-warezing	23:54
* Stskeeps would really prefer a sync that took last.fm information, combined with my mp3 collection, and sync likely listening music before i head to work		23:54
moontiger	glass_, ok i get it .... for me an 8gb nano is heaps	23:54
moontiger	2 oe 3 days of music	23:54
moontiger	oe = or	23:55
yacoob	moontiger, I, for one, am too lazy to change the contents :)	23:55
moontiger	hahaha	23:55
glass_	moontiger: yeah but what if you get the feeling to listen to beatles	23:55
pupnik810	yeah but random play needs a minsize to feel properly random	23:55
moontiger	<--- has the beatles on the nano	23:55
moontiger	i have 1400 songs on my nano	23:55
* pupnik810 goes power-outlet seeking		23:55
zakkm	beatles.. you guys truly are old :P	23:55
moontiger	thats enough for on the move for me	23:55
moontiger	hahaha	23:56
moontiger	or i just appreciate them	23:56
moontiger	;)	23:56
moontiger	not that old	23:56
qwerty12_N800	zakkm, +1 :p	23:56
yacoob	people don't live that long, to be still listening to beatles!	23:56
pupnik810	a few gb is ok.... a couple hundred MB too littled	23:56
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moontiger	hey musicians appreciate real music	23:56
moontiger	its timeless	23:56
moontiger	:)~	23:56
zakkm	it was a joke.	23:56
moontiger	np zakkm i took it as a joke	23:57
moontiger	:)	23:57
qwerty12_N800	oops.. I was joking too :p :)	23:57
moontiger	hahaha no you werent	23:57
zakkm	my 17 year old friend has beatles on his ipod and keeps listening to them ..	23:57
qwerty12_N800	moontiger, true :p	23:57
* moontiger laughs		23:57
glass_	zakkm: the point is.. i listen to a wide variety of music.. '90s goth electro to '50s stuff to classical pieces to 'fuck the world' punk	23:58
zakkm	i love those songs:P " fuck the world " :P	23:58
glass_	so.. i don't want to keep just few albums with me	23:58
moontiger	wouldnt that be "fuk the world" porn?	23:58
glass_	of course i keep couple of porno vids on the ipod too	23:58
glass_	why not..	23:58
moontiger	haha	23:58
whodat	grr	23:58
moontiger	<-- has hot gf	23:59
qwerty12_N800	wank on the move?	23:59
whodat	why is miniSD so hard to get ahold of	23:59
moontiger	whodat, amazon?	23:59

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