IRC log of #maemo for Sunday, 2008-10-05

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moontigerdoes anybody know about the claws mail update being broken?00:09
moontigerok ... that they just fixed00:09
moontigerignore me00:09
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* moontiger laughs00:11
Stskeepsanyone know of a battery meter, tray applet, that uses HAL?00:12
Stskeepsand doesn't require a shitload of dependancies00:12
moontigerit will require libhal tho yes?00:12
Stskeepsthat's fine really :P00:12
moontigeram i missing something but isnt that really simple to code?00:14
Stskeepsthat's probably simple to code, yes, but not something i want to spend time on :P00:14
Stskeepsthere exists one for xfce4 but it's a mess00:14
moontigeris it for deblet?00:14
moontigerwhich is debian lenny yes?00:14
Stskeepsso should use freedesktop applet protocol or wtf exists :P00:14
moontigerok well i'll have a look at writing one if you can wait a few days until later in the week00:15
moontigermaybe its way to hard00:15
moontigerbut i can have a look00:15
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moontigerin C yes? so its small00:16
moontigermy gf is away all next week so i'll have some time in the evenings00:16
lcukto play with your small thing?00:16
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Stskeepsso it's pretty direct once you have hal stuff00:17
moontigerStskeeps, i'll look at it this week ... sounds like fun :)00:18
moontigerlcuk, i dont have a "thing" ;)00:18
Stskeepshave fun - a battery applet is really needed so :P00:18
moontigerand maemo has the hal stuff in it yes?00:18
Stskeepsyes, same backend we use00:18
moontigerok cool00:18
jottjust keep in mind not just to do while(1) { update_battery_display(); }   :P00:20
moontigerummmmm yah or it wont be needed much as battery == dead real soon00:20
jottyou see the battery applet literally drain the battery ;)00:21
moontigeri'll do some research and then have a go at coding it :)00:22
Stskeepssounds good.. i'm getting slightly angry that having a dependancy on gnome, for some silly applets.. drags in evolution-data-server-common00:23
Stskeepsand -server, seemingily.00:23
moontigeri saw that in some stuff too ... the pimlico calendar stuff00:23
Stskeepsthat makes somewhat more sense, but yeah00:24
moontigerstill annoying imo00:24
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jotthello qole00:28
woglindehe jott00:28
jott...and woglinde  :)00:28
Stskeepsmoontiger: has decent source code, but making a deb package for it was a bitch for me last :P00:29
Stskeepsand it "only" requires gtk, libxfce* and dbus-dev, hal-dev :P00:29
Stskeeps'lo qole00:29
moontigeryou guys use lxde yes?00:30
moontigerand that is pure freedesktop stuff no?00:30
Stskeepsthink it supports it decently, yeah00:30
Stskeepsbut we should have an applet that would work in most systray stuff so00:30
qoleI'm surrounded by Germans here, don't understand them, so I'm hacking around on matchbox-keyboard.00:30
woglindeqole haha00:31
woglindehere you are sourrounded too00:31
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jottwir könnten jetzt alle plötzlich deutsch reden :P00:32
qolebut you are writing in English!00:32
woglindejott okay machen wird *g*00:32
Stskeepsqole: ta for the heads up on dm-loop, even though the boot script for it will haunt my conscience for the rest of my life00:32
qolehm, I spoke too soon.00:32
moontigerStskeeps, i'll do my best this week :)00:32
jottqole: you just asked for it :>00:32
jottqole: where are you actually to be surrounded by germans?00:33
qoledm-loop makes image files viable again.00:33
Stskeepsqole: there's also interesting possibilities for copy-on-write stuff00:34
qoleIn Canada! They're all here for my wife's father's 'round' birthday.00:34
qoleI have IRC to thank for Matan's work on dm-loop00:35
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woglindeqole so eat some "bratwurst mit sauerkraut"00:41
qolewe  had leberkase for lunch00:43
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woglindeqole yummie00:47
moontigerok guys ... see you later ... off to haqve some fun irl ;)00:48
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Jareduanyone know why when using transmission it says permission denied when i try to download torrents?01:09
Jareduit downloads for a sec then says permission denied01:09
Jareduwhich i find odd01:09
woglindenite all01:11
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Jareduhey man is there a way i could help out testing the new liqbase?01:21
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Stskeeps#liqbase and grab him when he's around ;)01:23
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Jareduthats Stskeeps01:23
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lcukdouble ping02:10
timelessDevice storage memory full. Delete some data to free memory.02:10
timelessanyone ever see that?02:11
timelessi got it trying to open "date and time"02:11
timelessnicer. Sounds just won't open.02:12
GeneralAntillesNot personally02:16
GeneralAntillesI've seen people complain about it, though.02:16
GeneralAntillesDon't know a fix.02:16
ShadowJKso um, where's the wiki02:17
Jaredulcuk! :D02:17
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ShadowJKoh right, you just need to click refresh 10 times to get a page that isn't blank :)02:18
timelessgan: fix is to have more than 3mb free on /02:18
GeneralAntillesShadowJK, more like once or twice if the Apache thread segfaults.02:20
GeneralAntillesYour browser was probably caching.02:20
ShadowJKI did do shift-reload02:20
ShadowJKis it segfaulting often..02:20
GeneralAntillesWaiting on the server changeover for a fix.02:21
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Jareduany clue if i could help out in testing the liqbase beta? :D02:25
Jareduit'd be great if possible hehheh02:25
Jaredudunno if you're offering the download or anything02:25
Jaredubut it'd be great02:25
Jareduit shows great promise :)02:25
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lcuk2yer, theres a chan where i seem to be asking random questions in at the moment about it all :) if you go there you will get first dibs on the package - even before it hits extras-dev02:26
lcuk2Jaredu, indeed it does02:26
timelessaww fsck02:26
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lcuk2what you broke now timeless02:27
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timelessthis is so much fun02:33
timelessimages kinda crashed02:34
GeneralAntillesHit it with a stick until it complies with your will.02:34
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timelessnice, media player doesn't work02:47
GAN800timless, that's new? :P02:47
timelessmy definition is simpler than yours ;)02:49
timelessarg, my touch screen failed.02:51
timelesshow can i file my bug!?02:51
timelessone of my two n800s. I could use the other or the n810...02:52
* timeless rummages for the older n80002:52
timelessoh, i brought my 770 too02:53
timelessi'm only on 5 or so, probably osol discuss or xen02:55
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lcuk2if i have an app installed and i reclick on the deb, what happens - does it upgrade it if the deb was rebuilt03:46
GeneralAntillesMake sure you're incrementing your version numbers.03:47
lcuk2gulp, internal app versions or from withi nthe debian folder03:48
* lcuk2 normally sets such things to autoincrement in windows world03:48
GeneralAntillespackage version.03:48
lcuk2so i cant stay on 0.0.1 for a while03:49
lcuk20.0.1.astronomicalbuildnumber ;)03:49
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lcuk2it will do as it stands for now, once its out there people can show me proper way :)03:51
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GeneralAntillesDon't be evil about packaging03:51
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lcuk2im not03:51
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GeneralAntillesJust a general recommendation. :P03:52
GeneralAntillesAlways better to do it the right way asap03:52
GeneralAntillesthen you don't get into the habit of doing it the wrong way and have to break it later.03:53
timelesswhen you create a backup w@ backup, does it change "no backups created"?03:53
* timeless is evil03:54
GeneralAntillesIn the list of backups?03:55
GeneralAntillesI dunno, I've got a bunch of backups sitting around all over the place.03:55
GeneralAntillesI just created a new backup and it added it to my existing list.03:56
timelesscan you guess what happened when i tried, and why? :)03:56
GeneralAntillesIt failed horribly?03:57
timelessnah, just amusingly03:57
timelessmore like error: success03:57
timelessit created a backup, which i presume is valid03:58
timelessbut as there's no space on /... It couldn't record the backup creation03:58
timelessshort term memory loss03:58
GeneralAntillesI really hope they do away with the stupid NAND setup for the N900.03:59
timelessi'm open to suggestions about other apps likely to fail :)03:59
GeneralAntillesSince low memory seems to be responsible for a very large number of problems on the platform.04:00
timelessoh sure, make it harder for me to find bugs. Where's the fun in that?04:00
timelessbtw, lest you think symbian is better. It killed my gmail app and my web browser, forcing me to try my n80004:01
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timelesskilled because it really ran out of memopry04:01
infobottimeless meant: killed because it really ran out of memory04:01
GeneralAntillesMicron's got a 256MB RAM PoP with no NAND that they should use.04:03
GeneralAntillesJust drop the OS on a bigger version of the N810's internal storage.04:03
mikkov_lcuk2: you can keep the version number when testing by yourself. Increment version when you release the package somehow04:04
lcuk2mikkov_, is there some nice automatic way to ensure this occurs?04:05
lcuk2i dont mind inc on every package build04:06
mikkov_or are you releasing every build?04:06
lcuk2no, but i dont want a different procedure for insternal and external, theres no point04:07
lcuk2if i build a package and its fine and stable i dont wanna have to rebuild it04:07
lcuk2for the sake of a number04:07
lcuk2(binary contains fixed in palce binary build date stamp anyway and reports this date as part of its logging procedures04:08
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GeneralAntillesWell, Extras-devel kinda solves the issue for you.04:09
GeneralAntillesSince it forces you to increment the version.04:09
lcuk2cool :)04:10
lcuk2since ive never had one in there it wont get me yet ;)04:10
mikkov_but it doesn't increment version number automatically04:11
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dystopiaN810 has microUSB A, correct?04:13
dystopiaerr wait i mean B actually04:15
dystopiapff :-)04:15
GeneralAntillesMicro AB04:16
moontigerGeneralAntilles, do u know anyone who could use those adapters for the n800? i have 304:17
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GeneralAntillesmoontiger, did you get that Motorola Micro to Mini adaptor?04:18
GeneralAntillesThat'll let you use the N800 adaptors with the N810.04:18
ShadowJKAs a heavy user of both N810 and a Symbian based nokia, I have to say the N810 wins...04:18
moontigernaaaaaaa i'll wait til they make the usb -> micro04:18
timelessi needed one here in bordeaux on friday, i ended up buying a memory card reader that came w/ the cable04:18
moontigerjust wondered if you knew anyone could use these that i have04:18
GeneralAntillesSymbian's for cellphones.04:18
GeneralAntillesso it fails automatically.04:18
smackpotatodoes bash2 come with maemo or was it something i added04:19
GeneralAntillesmoontiger, not off-hand, no.04:19
GeneralAntillessmackpotato, something you added.04:19
ShadowJKGeneralAntilles, cellphones and PDA :-)04:19
GeneralAntillesIt's in Extras.04:19
ShadowJKthere are non-phone things with symbian, iirc..04:19
timelessshadowjk: sorry to hear that04:19
smackpotatoso im the only one that has bashrc what it the maemo eqivelent04:19
* ShadowJK just upgraded to diablo :s04:20
dystopiathere is microA -> USB and microB -> USB04:20
GeneralAntillesMicroA is for host mode.04:21
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moontigerwell i have 3 if anyone wants them for the price of mailing :)04:21
dystopiaso if i want to have my N810 to connect to USB keyboard, i'd need a microA -> USB female right?04:23
GeneralAntillesdystopia, then you'd need to switch it software side.04:24
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dystopiabut else to connect it to hub it'd be microB -> USB male04:24
moontigerdystopia, i tried that and it just was a huge pain ... better get a bluetooth keyboard04:24
GeneralAntillesdystopia, um, no.04:25
GeneralAntillesThat'll get you USB host in hardware on the N810.04:26
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timelessgan: so any other apps you can think of that are likely to fail?04:31
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dystopiaGeneralAntilles: ok, thank you!!04:34
GeneralAntillesdystopia, be aware that a lot of keyboard actually require more than 100mA.04:35
GeneralAntillesSo you may need to use a USB hub.04:35
GeneralAntillestimeless, not really.04:36
GeneralAntillestimeless, though SSU is one of them in a couple of specific situations.04:37
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GeneralAntillestimeless, what is "diablo pre"?04:40
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moontigerStskeeps, you around?06:45
moontigernn lophyte06:45
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EruditeHermithi, the SSU update bricked my device. Is there anything I can do to repair it without a reflash? I don't have access to the USB cable for it right now.06:55
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GeneralAntillesDo you have bootmenu installed?06:57
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EruditeHermitGeneralAntilles: nope07:02
EruditeHermitGeneralAntilles: I do have SD cards and an SD card reader available07:03
EruditeHermitI will have access to the USB cable in a week, but not till my trip is over07:03
EruditeHermitand I would like to get it working before then if possible07:03
GeneralAntillesWell, if you can get an initfs image with usbnet and ssh/telnet you can get in and fix it.07:03
GeneralAntillesBut you'll need a USB cable.07:03
GeneralAntillesBasically, any reasonable solution requires a USB cable.07:04
GeneralAntillesOut of interest, did you do anything to ~/MyDocs/.documents?07:04
EruditeHermitI may have had fanoush initfs stuff in there07:05
EruditeHermitjust the zipped files in there07:05
GeneralAntillesHow about the user manual pdfs in there?07:05
EruditeHermitI didn't touch them07:06
EruditeHermithas the failed upgrade happened to anyone else?07:07
GeneralAntillesWell, the likely story is that one of the postinstalls failed, which left something unconfigured07:07
GeneralAntillesand one of the important system services isn't starting07:07
GeneralAntillesso the watchdog is killing it during boot.07:07
GeneralAntillesPeople who symlinked ~/MyDocs/.documents had some troubles.07:07
EruditeHermitwell, I hadn't messed with anything on this install07:08
EruditeHermitI did install a bunch of 3rd party apps, but nothing that isn't in extras and at worst extras-devel07:09
EruditeHermitand maybe fennec though I might not have, I can't remember07:09
EruditeHermitit sucks that the upgrade would fail like this07:09
GeneralAntillesFenec might've done it.07:09
GeneralAntillesif xulrunner was screwed up07:10
GeneralAntillesthough it shouldn't have.07:10
EruditeHermitbut fennec is self contained07:10
EruditeHermitI think07:10
GeneralAntillesOr just the fact that it's huge.07:10
EruditeHermitI was low on space07:10
GeneralAntillesLow free space can cause it to fail.07:10
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EruditeHermitprobably that is what did it07:10
GeneralAntillesIf the estimated install size requirement is wrong07:10
EruditeHermitbecause it was a pretty standard install07:10
GeneralAntilleswhich it can be depending on what you messed with.07:10
EruditeHermitI'm surprised only because it was a pretty standard install07:11
EruditeHermitthe only thing I can really think of is that it might have run out of disk space07:11
GeneralAntillesIt's the stupid 14MB of PDFs that gets refreshed with every upgrade.07:11
EruditeHermitthere is a 10mb video07:12
EruditeHermitoh, I had canola installed too07:12
EruditeHermitit might have its own repository07:12
ShadowJKhow much would you want free before update?07:12
GeneralAntillesIdeally the package should know whether or not there's enough space.07:14
GeneralAntillesBut some really easy to delete user files can throw a wrench into that estimate07:15
GeneralAntilleswhich means it'll run out of space during the install.07:15
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EruditeHermitI'll have to wait to fix it07:22
EruditeHermituntil then its a brick07:22
EruditeHermitI hope it is repairable07:22
EruditeHermitits just in a reboot cycle07:22
EruditeHermitI have to pull the battery to even turn it off07:22
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lcuk2final one of the night
lcuk2damn! :) ahhh well07:56
lcuk2this isnt so stable, but it works, any feedback would be appreciated07:57
lcuk2im goin to bed07:57
ShadowJKholy crap, gps acquired lock in just a few seconds07:58
* ShadowJK hugs a-gps07:58
* bef0rd installs liqbase08:00
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bef0rdnice text scrolling08:11
bef0rdI had seen some videos of liqbase but never installed it heh08:11
lcuk2thats because the .deb was only created over the last couple of days ;)08:12
lcuk2anyway, as longas your computer hasnt blown up i think im safe to go to bed08:12
lcuk2gnite and have fun08:12
bef0rdnite lcuk208:13
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thuxhi, if tablet is on and running how can i tell if rd mode enabled?09:06
qwerty12become root09:07
qwerty12/usr/sbin/chroot /mnt/initfs cal-tool --get-rd-mode09:07
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LiraNunacongrads on deblet beta4 \o/10:16
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ldrnI don't think anyone is up or can help me, but... I've been spending all day trying to get my tablet to work. The seamless update makes it not boot, but not right away. I've been trying to identify what I am installing that does this without success. If I manage to install fanoush's initfs first, I can boot to an old backup copy of SD, but still not the main partition. As far as I can tell, it just... randomly decides to brick itse10:37
ldrnNo, wrong word. I can still reflash. Just not work. Is there any way to tell what the tablet is hanging on when it boots? Some sort of log files? I didn't find them in /var/log.10:38
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qwerty12You can get ksyslogd to get a syslog in /var/log. But you'll have to chroot or something to install it in your flash10:39
ldrnThanks! I can do that, I think. I can mount the flash while in the older copy.10:40
qwerty12Here are debs for syslog: & . They have a circular dependency so install them at the same time10:42
ldrnThank you very much... now I feel really foolish for not asking for help earlier.10:43
qwerty12I think it's something like mounting /dev/mtdblock4 somewhere, putting those two debs in the flash, then binding /tmp, /dev, /proc and just using dpkg -i and rebooting10:43
qwerty12Also, fanoush's stuff here is very helpful:
qwerty12If you add that then while starting up, you can see which init script it is executing before it reboots10:44
ldrn... nice! :D10:44
ldrnThat's perfect10:44
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zapInteresting, SDK will work faster on a BeagleBoard than on x86?11:27
qwerty12No emulation I guess11:27
zapyep, but 1.2Ghz instead11:27
zapso the question is still open :)11:27
zapon the other hand, you can get full emulation (no need for x86 target to debug)11:28
qwerty12True, but when it comes to arm compiling, I'm more biased towards no emulation rather than speed because ultimatly, emulation is slow anyway :)11:28
zapthats because you haven't compile XXL projects :)11:31
qwerty12You sure about that :P11:32
* qwerty12 was trying webkit but gave up when linking failed11:32
* qwerty12 also can't be arsed to try and fix the problem after waiting years for it to get to that stage11:32
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zapyou compiled it on NIT? :)11:37
qwerty12Ah, my bad, I thought you meant compiling with emulation. no I did it on computer :)11:38
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GeneralAntilleszap, an emulated ARM is gonna be faster than the Beagle's 600MHz13:40
GeneralAntillesbut it wont draw way less than 2W. :P13:40
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, Where is the best place to discuss the community version of maemo?13:43
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, there's a thread on -developers13:44
GeneralAntillesbut here is good too. :P13:44
qwerty12Ok :P :)13:44
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, but, yes, we so totally want your help. :D13:44
qwerty12"the recovery mode should offer the option to make backup images" - Regarding that, that's only possible if the user keeps the tablet in rd-mode :(13:45
Stskeepshow come?13:45
qwerty12dsme reboots the tablet if it's in production mode after 4 mins, and trust me, backing up mtdblock4 takes more than 4 mins13:46
Stskeepsqwerty12: trick it with --root-mounted..13:46
qwerty12Stskeeps, hmm, haven't come across that one before, sounds interesting13:47
qwerty12If that can be solved (and it seems like it can be), - I've got a set of mtd-utils in there that will run in initfs to backup /dev/mtdblock413:48
Stskeepsqwerty12: what was the issue about backup over gadget LUN btw? should be possible on both win and linux to image in the stuff :P13:49
qwerty12Stskeeps, I couldn't get Linux on my desktop to mount the exported mtdblock4/mtd4 and I had a lot of modules loaded on the desktop to emulate block devices etc13:50
qwerty12Stskeeps, no chance, win will never support jffs2 :P13:50
Stskeepsqwerty12: didn't say read, just copy13:50
Stskeepswindows can access the raw LUNs, ofcourse13:50
qwerty12Probably, but I only backup using mkfs.jffs2 which requires the filesystem to be mounted. Maybe a raw nanddump will work13:51
qwerty12Regarding, "#  Disable the legal warning.", I could patch application manager but I'd be removing the message outright. Maybe a proper programmer could add it as a option to the settings?13:52
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, that sounds like a plan.13:53
GeneralAntillesI should open a Garage project13:53
GeneralAntillesI wonder if "Maemo Community Edition" is acceptable.13:53
GeneralAntilles"MCE" :P13:53
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GeneralAntillesDamn Sexy Maemo Edition13:53
GeneralAntillesor maybe just "Community Edition" would work.13:54
GeneralAntillesI guess I'll have to ask the list.13:54
qwerty12I guess if the option to remove the legal message was added as an option, the settings dialog would need to be brought back in blue pill mode. In chinook, the settings dialog would display 1 option (can't remember what though) but in diablo, they removed it entirely.13:55
qwerty12s/entirely/ in blue pill mode/13:55
infobotqwerty12 meant: I guess if the option to remove the legal message was added as an option, the settings dialog would need to be brought back in blue pill mode. In chinook, the settings dialog would display 1 option (can't remember what though) but in diablo, they removed ...13:55
qwerty12infobot, nice job.13:56
* infobot lowers job.'s priority13:56
GeneralAntillesRefresh time period.13:56
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, start gathering your patches, anyway.13:57
GeneralAntillesWe can probably just drop the Red Pill check off the settings dialog.13:57
qwerty12Will do13:57
GeneralAntillesBut some of the individual options will need to be moved.13:57
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Stskeepssomeone needs to give that boy a shell account with irssi on it so he stays online :P13:59
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: did you notice we've managed to lock up CAL btw?14:03
Stskeepsor atleast get a huge leap towards it14:03
GeneralAntillesOh really?14:03
StskeepsDSME in initfs has debug symbols14:03
Stskeepsthat means definitions of types, structs, functions, etc14:03
jotthey folks.14:03
GeneralAntillesHey, jott.14:04
jotthey Stskeeps anything done with your finding? :)14:04
Stskeepsjott: tried to prod austin che with it but no luck.. didn't experiment further myself yet14:04
Stskeepshaving proper battery info will be a good thing at some point though14:04
* jott actually would like to have this in /sys not just in hal :/14:05
Stskeepsbtw advanced backlight is brilliant :P i love being able to read on my tablet in bed without dying of too many photons14:06
Stskeeps(at night)14:07
jotthehe the could actually make nice slogan like "advanced backlight - prevents excessive photon attacks" :>14:08
Stskeepsadvanced backlight should definately be in a community edition :P14:09
GeneralAntillesI'm so glad rm_you did that.14:09
GeneralAntillesThat idea has been bouncing around my head since the early 770 days.14:09
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GeneralAntillesNow he needs to come back so I can coerce him into implementing more of my stuff. :P14:09
jotthehe.. and in the end i have to make it proper then :P14:10
GeneralAntillesHooray for Team Advanced Backlight. :D14:11
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i know the CE discussion is on -developers, but considered asking on iTT what people would want (of existing software) and patches to be in a community edition? even though there's risk of it becoming a hellhole14:11
jottwe should prepare a new version to increase the download count :)14:11
zapWhat daemon mounts/unmounts mmc cards? dsme?14:11
GeneralAntillesjott, just bump the version number.14:11
Stskeepszap: ke-recv i believe14:11
zapStskeeps: thanks, will look14:12
GeneralAntillesand take generally of some unreproducible bugs being fixed.14:12
Stskeepsit's OSS, too :P14:12
GeneralAntillesjott, if you want to get started on the control panel, applet. . . .14:12
GeneralAntillesOr just provide the appropriate .desktop, really.14:12
jottnot atm. to much other stuff to do..14:12
GeneralAntillesIf only everybody had more of it.14:13
Stskeepstime, the number one reason for cloning and brain transfer technology14:13
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GeneralAntillesI'm going to use my army of clones to coerce your army of clones to code my ideas. :P14:14
jotttime, the number one reason why we need code monkeys which we can exploit.14:14
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zapoh cool, Control Panel -> about displays "Version: <unknown>" :-)14:15
zapwhy this could be...14:15
Stskeepszap: initfs flashing tends to do that according to qwerty12 or something14:16
GeneralAntilleszap, check the o-s-v postinst for the fix.14:16
zaposso-product-info -s OSSO_VERSION=RX-34+RX-44+RX-48_DIABLO_4.2008.36-5_PR_MR014:17
zapthis one?14:17
zapdid not help :)14:17
GeneralAntillesThere's another one, too.14:18
GeneralAntillesI don't remember it, though.14:18
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Stskeepsdoes any of you have power consumption problems with Diablo? my battery drain is way too much than in chinook, and yes, i've disabled metacrawler :P14:35
Stskeepsno wifi connected, yet it drains totally overnight14:36
yacoobno wifi connected, or wifi disabled?14:36
Stskeepsno wifi connected and no searching (disabled)14:36
yacoobif it's the former, it might be desperately trying to get to one, and drain battery in process14:36
ShadowJKseems to eat about the same as in chinook for me..14:38
yacoobit's clobbering time. Where's the frigging localepurge...14:41
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yacoob...there's no localepurge. That would explain few things.14:46
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lishevitahi all...15:18
lishevitaI followed all the instructions at but when I try to run start it says that it's not found15:19
lishevitaanyone know what's gone wrong?15:19
lishevita[sbox-DIABLO_ARMEL: ~] > export DISPLAY=:215:22
lishevita[sbox-DIABLO_ARMEL: ~] > start15:22
lishevitabash: command not found15:22
lishevitaany ideas? Anyone? I've gone searching the maemo forums and haven't found this problem there yet15:23
RST38hcommand not found15:39
RST38his it somehow unclear?15:39
RST38hyou probably forgot installing something15:40
lishevitai just told you, I installed everything exactly like it says in the instructions. Using the scripts, not the manual installs15:41
lishevitaSo, maybe there's something wrong with one of the scripts? 4.1.1 is new-ish, isn't it?15:41
RST38hhave you installed diablo bootstrap?15:41
RST38hhave you installed binary only packages?15:42
lishevitathe  maemo-sdk-install_4.1.1 sh script does that15:42
RST38hhave you selected a target?15:43
lishevitaI selected Runtime Environment + All Dev Packages15:43
RST38hthat is not the target15:43
lishevitaTarget = DIABLo_ARMEL15:43
lishevitayou should see that in the pasted error, right?15:43
RST38hhave you typed rehash just in case?15:44
RST38hI am here from a smartphone15:44
RST38hdont see much sorry15:44
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RST38hok, use dpkg to see where maemo sdk deb places that script then verify that the script is there15:46
lishevitatrying to re-install the maemo-sdk-install script now15:46
RST38halso try running the script from outside sb15:46
lishevitaoh, I should have thought of that.15:46
lishevitaYeah, i tried running the script from outside sb before pestering the channel. ;)15:46
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* Stskeeps begins to compile all of ubuntu mobile hildon stuff for deblet/armel16:02
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* CptLaptop ordered aspire one16:17
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AnunakinNice day!16:27
Anunakinany here has tried Maemo on ATOM machines?16:28
Stskeepsthink you might want to look at ubuntu mobile instead16:29
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lishevitaSooo... I think I know what the problem was. (I should have read the install errors earlier. Blah!)16:36
lishevitaFailed to fetch  Error reading from server - read (104 Connection reset by peer) [IP: 80]16:36
lishevitaE: Unable to fetch some archives, maybe run apt-get update or try with --fix-missing?16:36
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lishevita*head desk* I am so not having a good day.16:40
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JasonWoofwhat happened to maemo-mapper?17:03
Stskeepsuhm, what? :P17:03
GAN800Nothing, it just hasn't been uploaded to Diablo Extras yet.17:03
ShadowJKseems to work if you install it straight17:04
JasonWoofbut but... that was the most useful program I had17:04
aquatixit's still there17:04
zapthe most useful program is Aisleriot17:04
Stskeepsxournal is quite useful too17:04
zapbtw latest xournal is very buggy, unusable I'd say17:05
Stskeepsi use chinook version17:05
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JasonWoofyay :)17:05
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thopiekarhi @ all17:05
ShadowJKYou know, it's pretty damn confusing and hard for a new user to get a grip of all these repos and stuff :-)17:05
StskeepsShadowJK: yeah, which is why people are trying to push extras17:06
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Stskeepsbut new things take time17:06
GAN800ShadowJK, go convince everybody to put their stuff into Extras. Problem solved.17:06
thopiekarcould someone please tell me howto connect my n95's pys60 bluetooth with my n800?17:06
aquatixmeh, wget borks on garage's https17:06
ShadowJKlike, it only ocurred to my yesterday to try tap in into a browser, and I was surprised to see that I shouldn't have been using the repo that gives me gcc :)17:07
aquatixah yeah, thanks17:07
thopiekarthe howto works fine but theres no "cu" shell termal17:07
aquatixlol: Cannot write to `maemo-mapper_2.4.1-os2008_armel.deb' (Success).17:07
aquatix`success'? :P17:07
aquatixseems i already filled up my microsd again17:07
Stskeeps1. Install. 2. ??? 3. Success.17:08
ShadowJK(do you think gcc will be pushed to Extras :)17:08
* Stskeeps ponders idly how a sane debian environment with hildon would be like.17:08
mavhcis there an easy way to install things to mmc1?17:08
Stskeepsmavhc: look into clone-to-SD17:08
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GAN800ShadowJK, SDK repo will drop you into a reboot loop with an apt-get upgrade.17:08
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ShadowJKGAN800, I think you need dist-upgrade for that, and to type in "Yes, do as I say!" first?17:09
GAN800Somebody could probably uploade build-essentials to Extras.17:09
GAN800ShadowJK, no, apt-get upgrade.17:10
GAN800Boom. Hello coreutils.17:10
ShadowJKThe following packages have been kept back:17:10
ShadowJK  libdb4.2 libglade2-0 libxml2 makedev17:10
ShadowJKThe following packages will be upgraded:17:10
ShadowJK  bzip2 netcat17:10
GAN800Somebody might try talking Nokia into moving the build stuff into Tools.17:10
ShadowJKbzip2 and netcat doesn't look too dangerous?17:11
mavhcStskeeps: ok, I'll ignore it for now17:11
ShadowJKwith dist-upgrade it wants to remove a whole bunch of osso-* things, wants to install coreutils...17:12
Stskeepsbusybox should really Provides: coreutils17:12
Stskeepsend of problems17:12
Stskeeps.. admittedly also a can of worms17:12
Stskeepsbut still17:12
ShadowJKit'd be great to have them packaged for maemo, say with a prefix. core-ls core-tail or something17:13
ShadowJKsome things would probably not work or make sense, like coreutils us17:14
JasonWoofshadowjk: thanks again17:14
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slonopotamusbusybox sucks17:15
ShadowJKand procps, I miss the procps utilities :)17:15
* Stskeeps pokes ShadowJK with the deblet stick and memories of unreal3.117:15
GAN800busybox is a lot lighter weight, though.17:15
slonopotamusif you need normal utils, simply compile them by hand into /usr/local17:15
Stskeepswhat's really mostly used though? the sh part or?17:15
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GAN800bash would add significantly to boot times.17:16
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Stskeepsthere's always dash17:16
slonopotamusbusybox's sh is ok17:16
ShadowJKyah, I have no issues with bb sh17:16
slonopotamusfind/ps/xargs is not ok17:16
ShadowJKis miss tail -F17:17
slonopotamusi built coreutils/findutils to /usr/local and absolutely happy now17:17
ShadowJKand top, ps..17:18
slonopotamusand grep17:18
slonopotamusit 'doesn't handle long lines and -e switch'17:18
Stskeepstar ..17:18
ShadowJKgnutar is in extras?17:18
Stskeepsyes, it is17:18
slonopotamusnokia should provide a way to switch between busybox/*utils17:19
GAN800They likely will with Fremantle.17:20
slonopotamusbutt fremantle won't be on n8x0?17:20
GAN800if somebody wanted to fix the initscripts, or play with the packaging, it'd be a reasonable thing to include for the community edition.17:20
GAN800slonopotamus, uknown.17:21
infobotGAN800 meant: slonopotamus, unknown.17:21
* Stskeeps ponders on 21_multiple_resolution_support.patch in ubuntu hildon-desktop17:21
slonopotamusif you're unsure, prepare for worst17:21
Stskeepsslonopotamus: hence deblet, maemo community edition, etc efforts17:21
GAN800Nokia isn't even sure.17:21
ShadowJKStskeeps, are you implying you'll resume your old codename scheme for deblet releases?17:21
StskeepsShadowJK: i don't get to switch between girls these days17:22
GAN800But it's not a 'because we don't want to' but a 'because the hardware simply may not be up to it'.17:22
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Stskeepsanyone have experience with making a Debian ARMEL setup in scratchbox?17:25
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Macerwhy does imdb have sanctuary listed as being on season 2?17:34
Stskeepslo macer17:34
Macerhi Stskeeps17:34
Maceri'm trying to find this missing season of sanctuary that eludes me17:34
Macermaybe they called it something else17:35
Stskeepsperhaps planned17:35
Macerimdb has them listed as being aired in 200717:36
mavhcweb show17:36
Stskeepswebepisodes? i dunno :P17:36
Macerso i'm guessing that maybe it was euro or something17:36
mavhcthe tv series is a remake of the web series17:36
Macerah.. i see17:37
Maceris it a total remake? like there would be no reason to get season 1? :)17:37
baabayou get street cred if you watch the originals first17:38
mavhctv series is better17:39
baabai bought them back when they first became available17:39
Macerstreet cred17:45
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lcuk2Stskeeps, :) did you see the package17:49
lcuk2ERROR, package not installed, incorrect application category "midgets on horseback"17:51
Stskeepslcuk2: yeah17:51
lcuk2good, at least im not making machines go BOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOM17:51
gpdIs it possible to setup the N800 as a control device for UPnP to control a server and play the audio on the server rather than the N800?17:52
Macerhm... there were 8 episodes of the web version?17:52
gpdShould I just abandon UPnP and use MPD?17:53
lcuk2GAN800, :) using changleog properly now, ill just add to it as well as internal changelog17:53
GeneralAntillesgpd, mpd/mmpc17:53
GeneralAntilleslcuk2, one request. Please change that horrifying background.17:53
lcuk2which one? the CC attributed wonder menu17:53
gpdGeneralAntilles: thanks -- how about BRisa for maemo - tried that?17:54
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, he sells curtains for a living, I think he knows what to choose as background17:54
GAN800The marble looking thing that looks like it belonds on Win95 software.17:54
lcuk2should i bring up an image select and let you try yourself gen? ;)17:54
GAN800or that17:54
GAN800but having the default one suck doesn't make for a good first impression.17:55
lcuk2i just found something that wasnt too bright17:55
GAN800You could just go with black17:55
crashanddieblack usually isn't all that bright17:55
GAN800Fits the style ofzt17:55
crashanddieGAN800, I hate you17:55
GAN800of the app17:55
GAN800Rather than being out of place and arbitrary.17:56
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rm_youGAN800: eventually :P17:56
lcuk2it does the job of breaking up the sameness of everything17:56
rm_youbbl again17:56
GAN800crashanddie, you just got thumbboarded boy. :P17:56
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GAN800lcuk2, uniform style is desirable.17:56
GAN800I'd improbe the look by styling the buttons more excitingly.17:57
crashanddieGAN800, working on that17:57
infobotGAN800 meant: I'd improve the look by styling the buttons more excitingly.17:57
lcukuniform style is 100% desirable, but when im building and rebuilding and making the walls and fittings as i enter rooms its been a bit of an evolution at present17:57
gpdIs it possible to set the N8x0 to 'auto connect to these networks when I require network'? it keeps asking... annoying.17:57
lcukmornin crashanddie btw :)17:57
GAN800lcuk, when's it gonna be themeable? :P17:58
crashanddielcuk, afternoon :)17:58
Stskeepsgah.. the 5 second boot people17:58
Stskeepsthey don't seem to realize how amazing it is the tablet even boots in 30 seconds17:58
lcukGAN800, if you have it installed do you see the teeeny tiny "ed" buttons ?17:58
Jaffagpd: yes, any network you've got saved will be auto-connected to before showing the search box17:58
GAN800Stskeeps, MAKE IT BOOT IN 5 SECONDS OR ELSE!!!!17:58
StskeepsGAN800: define boot="start up X and show a pretty picture"17:59
GAN800lcuk, yeah, didn't manage to click on one yet.17:59
lcukthats cos they arent wired in, they are there in preperation for something :)17:59
crashanddiegpd, click network icon, "Connectivity Settings", and make sure "Connect Automatically" says "WLAN", and Search interval is set to Never17:59
gpdJaffa: doesn't seem to be for me --- it always asks me which one... unless I set the 'auto connect' - but then it stays connected and runs the battery down.17:59
GAN800Some people are just so terrifyingly clueless.17:59
lcuki needed the username to be able to identify people, but i want every button to be a customizable unique sketch17:59
GAN800gpd, fix your router.18:00
Stskeepsgpd: there's timeouts too18:00
Jaffagpd: it also shouldn't run the battery down when sat connected to wifi - unless your access point is hideously broken18:00
GAN800Staying connected shouldn't affect battery life overly much.18:00
Stskeepsor simply WMM/WMI isn't enabled.18:00
lcukso someone with 133t skills should be able to design nice ones without bugging me ;)18:00
infobotpsm is, like, Personal Security Manager for Mozilla, at  You don't need to restart mozilla as noted on that URL.  It also consumes 100% CPU unfortunately... lame piece of software. no longer works as of mozilla 0.7, or  needed for viewing of some login sites, i.e. yahoo. install by apt-get install mozilla-psm18:00
infoboti guess wifi-psm is
lcukive kept the ui elements 100% simple because it WILL change and im not messing with that for now18:01
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GAN800lcuk, get Khertan to make a theme!18:01
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gpdok getting somewhere -- mpd.conf s/localhost/any/ --> sonata on N800 now works :)18:06
* qwerty12 still prefers mmpc to sonata. Sonata being python has a long ass time to start even with python-launcher18:07
gpdhmm.. i should try mmpc then... [i seem to like mocp via ssh until now]18:08
qwerty12lcuk, btw, liqbase builds on the desktop right? I want to try it while I'm waiting for a charger :)18:10
gpdi take it that none of the 'pretty' media players support MPD? I need to compete with iPod WiFi fancy control of a laptop running iTunes.18:10
gpdqwerty12: mmpc seems to be tricky to edit the playlist (not intuitive?)18:15
macoute_i sent even a message to the author about that18:16
macoute_but its ok now18:16
qwerty12gpd, Hmm, a fair point, I forgot mmpc has sucky music managment (I just have all my tracks in one folder and add them to one playlist :)). You probably could grab an client that supports mpd and compile it. I did a quick compile of gimmix once18:17
gpdsonata seems good - will have a look to see if canola2 / ukmp support mpd (no recollection that they do)18:18
GAN800Somebody should make a plugin for Canola2.18:20
gpdcanola supports upnp only at the moment it seems. shame.18:20
gpdnothing for UKMP either18:21
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lcukqwerty12, theres a _USE_MAEMO maekfile flag and you also need to remove libxsp, but on the hwole yer18:23
* lcuk is dyslexic today18:23
qwerty12lcuk, hehe, thanks!18:24
JasonWoofwhat do I install to get the real gnu "find" program?18:24
JasonWoofdon't care if it's gnu, but I want the full program. this failed: find . -iname '*foo*'18:25
crashanddieJasonWoof, findutils18:25
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JasonWoofapt-get install findutils18:26
JasonWoofnote, selecting  bulsybox instead of findutils18:26
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JasonWoofbusybox is already the newest version18:26
qwerty12busybox provides findutils and findutils is not in a repo18:26
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Stskeepsjohnx: i'm dpkg-buildpackage'ing ubuntu mobile hildon packages for your pleasure later18:27
Stskeepsjohnx: they seem a little more sane than debians for now18:27
JasonWoofwhatever, I'll live18:27
johnxStskeeps, more "sane"? hmm?18:27
Stskeepsjohnx: updated towards upstream better and more suited in a debian environment18:28
Stskeepsin 95% of cases, atleast18:28
johnxStskeeps, hmm, I should look then. I've been following debian's and the extra ones at
Stskeeps is what i use18:29
Stskeepsjohnx: funny fact, nm-applet works in mb+hildon18:31
johnxoh, they switched from the flash launcher...18:31
johnxStskeeps, yeah of course. The status bar in hildon supports sys tray applets18:31
Stskeepsthat's going to help a lot :P18:31
GAN800 awesome18:32
johnxStskeeps, the one in OS2008's hildon-desktop does too. That's why the Pidgin and Xchat icons are no problem18:32
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Stskeepsjohnx: i kinda ponder how interesting a maemo-like desktop that's less hard to port modern debian apps to, could be..18:34
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lcukStskeeps, i keep wondering how hard it would be to adjust hildon to pick up properties from default x11 apps would be18:35
johnxlcuk, you just set different environment variables for hildon apps vs normal apps at launch18:36
lcukliqbase is not hildonized and could benefit from hildon simply saying "ahhh you have an x11 window, ill just get all the info i can18:36
johnxlcuk, what info, particularly?18:36
gpdI wish I could fix my iBlue 2 from continually disconnecting... :(18:36
lcukapp name and listing it in the home menu when running mainly18:37
johnxStskeeps, that was my idea at first, but no one else seemed interested. When I did beta2 it was hildon-desktop on a debian base...18:37
lcukso it doesnt get lost when you press menu ;)18:37
Macerwonder what an nvidia chipset nic uses on the cpu18:37
johnxlcuk, that you can do without hildon :P18:37
lcukjohnx, install liqbase and please try to make it work, its a bugbear at present and i cannot seem to do it :$18:38
Stskeepsjohnx: got any scrshots from back then?18:39
johnxlcuk, I mean, that's not hildon's problem. It's just setting a one-liner in your app, I think18:39
GAN800lcuk, :P18:39
Stskeepsi only saw b3 so18:39
Maceri need to get a fanless video card for my server18:39
Maceri should have just gotten the server mboard with the onboard video18:39
lcuklol gan maybe i will have more time in future to play :)18:39
johnxStskeeps, sure, let me find 'em18:39
Stskeepsjohnx: thing is, i don't really mind the hildon interface, but i'm disturbed by some system things18:40
GAN800johnx, I liked the Hildon/Debian approach, but without proper keybinds, that godawful matchbox keyboard and without Nokia's 'differentiation' stuff it wasn't very usable.18:40
johnxStskeeps, that was exactly my situation, but I released beta2 and everyone said "How about a normal window manager?" so I did that for beta318:40
StskeepsGAN800: well, h-i-m exists now18:40
Stskeepsas oss18:41
Stskeepsthat probably helps a little bit on it18:41
Stskeepscould probably be shined up with new themes ;)18:42
johnxStskeeps, any that are considered free software :P18:42
johnxThere's a lot more hildon stuff in debian/ubuntu now than there was in february18:43
Stskeepsjohnx: that's a good question, there's a lot of themes distributed around on iTT and such18:43
Stskeepsis the foundational theme OSS?18:43
GAN800None of the bundled ones are free.18:43
johnxStskeeps, plankton is...finally. the other's aren't18:43
JaffaThat's Plankton shown there (with 280px of browser viewport goodness)18:43
Stskeepsjohnx: ubuntu mobile also has one it seems18:44
GAN800I miss the OS2007 Plankton18:44
johnxI need to see if I like ubuntu's launcher better. I bet I will...18:44
JaffaTry to use more of Ubuntu Mobile - getting rid of the left-hand Task Navigator without having to go full screen's a good idea IMHO18:44
johnxwhat I'd really like is to get rid of the top bar and shrink the left bar...but I'll take what I can get18:45
johnxgoing for the 80% solution here...18:45
Stskeepsjohnx: saw the scrshot jaffa pasted earlier?18:45
GAN800I don't know what whoever thought OS2007's default theme was anything but horrifying was on.18:45
johnxnah, I've been AFK18:45
Stskeeps(netbook remix)18:46
johnxit kind of kills me to use up any of the limited vertical pixels wee have, but I sadly wasn't on Maemo's original design team...18:48
johnxthough matchbox would have less trouble living without a titlebar than any other window manager18:49
GAN800I'm more concerned about horizontal.18:50
johnxGAN800, strictly for browsing?18:50
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GAN800That's one of my bigger usecases18:51
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johnxmine too, but a top title bar and a bottom toolbar eats up a huge chunk of our very limited vertical space, and a sidebar doesn't have to be as thick as the OS2008 taskbar18:52
Stskeeps <- neat screenshots18:53
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dick-richardsonIs it possible to get the gps coordinates from the command line?18:54
GAN800Find one of about a dozen gpsd clients18:54
dick-richardsonthank you :)18:54
mavhcthen spend 5 hours working out which is best18:55
johnxStskeeps, ok, sold18:55
Stskeepsjohnx: excepting the osk, it looks decent18:56
dick-richardsonmavhc: do you have a recommendation?18:56
johnxStskeeps, I wonder if they're using matchbox or something else18:56
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GAN800I like all the cut off titles in the taskbar.18:57
johnxGAN800, having just icons would be ok, as would sideways titles18:58
dick-richardsonI have my n810 automatically ssh into my desktop on wifi connection (and run through my squid proxy), and also set up a reverse tunnel back to the device18:58
dick-richardsonif it's stolen, I just want it the gps to fire up, get the coordinates, and then I can just output them to a file18:59
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Mace`damn firefox19:09
Mace`when did it start to suck so bad?19:09
johnxMace`, when you added that last extension19:09
Mace`well. i don't know what i added to it but it makes X crash every time i run it :)19:10
johnxif X crashes, it's a bug in X. period.19:10
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sp3000 !19:10
johnxby definition19:10
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Mace`it was just working...i rm'd .mozilla from my home dir19:11
Mace`now when ff starts... it just makes X quit19:11
aquatixmaybe something with direct rendering and flash?19:11
Mace`well... i wouldn't say quit.. more of a crash and kick me back to a console19:11
aquatixsounds like an X issue indeed19:11
sp3000crazy fonts of oversize image foo are some things that have been problematic iirc19:11
Mace`could be blackbox19:12
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Mace`maybe i can try it in safe mode or something19:12
johnxif your window manager crashes it might by difficult for you to tell apart from X11 crashes19:13
johnxeither way, not firefox's fault :)19:13
sp3000well, right, if the session dies and X decides you're done19:13
sp3000someone's log may be useful19:14
gpdok - I'm trying to debug this iBlue 2 - N800 problem of lost connection here is the syslog from boot to when it starts dropping the connection to the iBlue:19:15
gpdwhere would I file a bug report for this do you think?19:16
Mace`the last errors are blackbox errors19:17
Mace`M -- assumed: (203, -2147483632), real: (203, 16)19:17
Mace`blackbox: void BlackboxWindow::show(): Assertion `client.rect.left() == real_x && == real_y' failed.19:17
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gpdSupervision timeout to 00:0B:0D:85:58:4F. Device out of rage?  <-- genius19:19
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Stskeepsjohnx: you used start-hildon and stuff back then? my sapwood seems to go insane and refuse to load anything :P19:23
* GAN800 wants to stab something evertytime MicroB tops itself.19:23
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gpdsdp-query 00:0B:0D:85:58:4F:19:23
gpdr|SPP|1|0|SPP slave19:23
gpdI am lost on where to start with fixing this :(19:24
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gpdGeneralAntilles: any pointers?19:26
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lcukhaving some time off, hopefully ill be offline for a while ;)19:41
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gpdok - trying hcidump after installing bluez-utils19:41
gpd <-- similar problem but not quite19:41
gpdalso removed mac address from maemo-mapper settings but kept on bluetooth -- as suggested.19:42
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robinkBlargh lightmediascanner0-ogg19:45
gpdbah -- thought it was stable there - but dropped again... balls.19:45
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qwerty12liqbase + windows = fail. :P19:57
MangoFusionshit, does this mean i can't run this on my windows mobile device?19:58
qwerty12I can't be arsed to reboot to ubuntu to try it out :P19:59
johnxqwerty12, need a better x server :P19:59
qwerty12johnx, yeah :D19:59
qwerty12I spent ages apt-getting and switching gcc versions as well... :P20:00
johnxusing windows is too difficult for me. that's why I had to give up. Maybe when the new version comes out I'll install it and play around to see if it's gotten easier :(20:00
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qwerty12Used vista by any chance? I'm not allowed access to C:\Documents And Settings to anymore, having to work with C:\Users20:01
johnxI'd try vista but I don't think it supports all my hardware out of the box, and I'm not enough of a geek to go and track down drivers for all my hardware20:02
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qwerty12Heh, ati drivers suck as much in windows as they do in maemo. This vista is haxed to let me use dreamscene (videos playing as your background) and the driver keeps needing to be reset every 10 seconds20:03
infobotqwerty12 meant: Heh, ati drivers suck as much in windows as they do in linux. This vista is haxed to let me use dreamscene (videos playing as your background) and the driver keeps needing to be reset every 10 seconds20:03
* qwerty12 has got maemo on the mind >.<20:04 totally missed it 10 years ago when ATi drivers used to be worse20:04
sp3000Setting up pre-installed-documentation-rx44 (5.4) ...20:05
sp3000mv: cannot rename '/usr/share/pre-installed/MyDocs/.documents/*': No such file or directory20:05
sp3000dpkg: error processing pre-installed-documentation-rx44 (--configure):20:05
sp3000 subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 120:05
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sp3000oh yeah, symlinks ftw, but this is old news, right20:05
qwerty12That's pretty shitty scripting. At least shove an || true in that postinst...20:05
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sp3000why don't I see that bug reported20:09
GAN800sp3000 it's reported.20:10
GAN800sp3000, SSU is in the summary.20:10
sp3000guess I need to scroll down20:10
sp3000who's reporting all these bugs!20:10
qwerty12I can only find:
sp3000yeah, that'd be it20:11
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Stskeepsqwerty12: btw where did your 60 second boot up on s2ram statement come from?20:13
qwerty12Stskeeps, I made one?20:13
Stskeeps.. i think so20:14
Stskeepswhen i used s2ram it was pretty much 1-2 sec restore time20:14
Stskeeps(the .sh, not the closed binary)20:14
qwerty12I can't have done as I've never used that script once in my life20:14
Stskeepswell my memory fails me. senility is a normal thing for uni students ;)20:14
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Stskeepsbut s2ram did help a lot on battery life, but as soon as it got near a wifi without PSM .. boom20:16
Stskeepsdunno why :P20:16
* sp3000 goes into bugzilla prefs to change the silly "show random bug after submit" default20:16
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* sp3000 grumbles at the lack of a dpkg.log20:17
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* sp3000 would have liked to apt-get install --reinstall things20:17
sp3000oh, thank you dpkg -l | grep -v ^ii20:18
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GAN800Dropping the giant media/docs packages from o-s-v would make the whole process 100x more stable.20:20
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sp3000iU  fennec                            0.8                        Mozilla's mob20:20
sp3000iU  osso-software-version-rx44        1:4.2008.36-520:20
sp3000iF  pre-installed-documentation-rx44  5.4                        Pre-installed20:20
sp3000iF  xulrunner                         1.9.1b1pre-20080923171103  Project aimin20:20
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sp3000Setting up xulrunner (1.9.1b1pre-20080923171103) ...20:25
sp3000Segmentation fault (core dumped)20:26
sp3000dpkg: error processing xulrunner (--configure):20:26
sp3000 subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 13920:26
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sp3000that's promising :P20:26
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sp3000oh, it does that on remove, too. clever :D20:26
GAN800Same here20:26
GAN800I killed it with fire.20:26
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* sp3000 gently edits /var/lib/dpkg/info/xulrunner.prerm20:31
GAN800I think it fails trying to remove /usr/local/bin20:32
sp3000nah, it warns about "`/usr/local' not empty so not removed", that's pretty common20:32
sp3000hah, next error:20:32
sp3000Setting up pre-installed-documentation-rx44 (5.4) ...20:32
sp3000chown: /home/user/MyDocs/.images: Operation not permitted20:32
sp3000dpkg: error processing pre-installed-documentation-rx44 (--configure):20:32
sp3000 subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 120:32
sp3000Nokia-N810-23-14:~# ls -lahd /home/user/MyDocs/.images20:33
sp3000lrwxrwxrwx    1 user     users          17 Jul 15 00:53 /home/user/MyDocs/.images -> /media/mmc2/Kuvat20:33
sp3000so more of the same20:33
GAN800Better to just forget MyDocs exists.20:33
infobotboot-sd is probably
woglindesp3000 fakeroot apt-get upgrade20:34
johnxyeah, breaking the "everything under $HOME belongs to the user...only!" rule has obvious consequences...20:34
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johnxnokia really should have know better...20:35
GeneralAntillesNokia knowing better . . . you're a funny man, johnx. :P20:36
RST38hMoo all20:36
johnx"Those who don't learn from Unix are doomed to reimplement it poorly."20:36
RST38hthere are companies that know worse than nokia though20:36
johnxat least they don't have us running as root...20:36
RST38hjohnx: no, "Those who do not understand Unix are doomed to invent it again and again. Poorly."20:37
RST38hjohnx: Which is exactly what we see from Microsoft20:37
GeneralAntillesIt's amazing the people who swarm out of the woodwork to defend off-topic spam.20:37
RST38hGAN: Heh, you remind me...20:38
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* RST38h thanks Cthulhu who kept him from installing latest Pidgin "updates"20:39
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johnxRST38h, I've hard it both ways. so has google20:39
rm_youjott: we need to fix that mute bug i showed you20:39
rm_youjott: then increment and release :P20:39
GAN800On bug per release.20:40
rm_youit's the only bug that I know of at present that is actually fixable on our side20:40
rm_youwe still need dsme20:40
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* rm_you prods lcuk 20:41
lcukhi rm, im not meant to be here20:41
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lcukhave you tried my package yet ? :D20:42
rm_youno <_<20:42
rm_youi've been20:42
rm_you... gone20:42
lcukahhh, welcome back20:42
rm_youyeah will be disappearing shortly again this next week :P20:42
lcukooh, anywhere exciting?20:43
rm_younot really for you :P20:43
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sp3000what the heck?20:49
sp3000chown -R $USERID:$USERGID $USERHOME/MyDocs20:49
* sp3000 suspects that second thing is some busybox bug20:49
Stskeepsupgrade script does that?20:50
johnxthat's far from kosher20:50
johnxand if it fails, dies?20:50
rm_youisn't the problem that tyou're trying to move a symlink to a fat32 partition? >_>20:50
Stskeepsi'd like to start a petition for lynching the person writing upgrade scripts for maemo20:51
rm_you<sp3000> lrwxrwxrwx    1 user     users          17 Jul 15 00:53 /home/user/MyDocs/.images -> /media/mmc2/Kuvat20:51
johnxrm_you, that's allowed20:51
sp3000rm_you: yeah, but surely chown -R shouldn't fail on that20:51
johnxa symlink can *point* anywhere20:51
rm_yousrsly? what does it do?20:51
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rm_youjust copy the file?20:51
rm_youyeah but fat32 doesn't support symlinks?20:51
rm_youso... does it just make another copy of the file there?20:51
johnxrm_you, but the symlink is on jffs220:51
johnxthe *target* is on the fat fs20:52
rm_youand isn't it MOVING it to the fat32?20:52
sp3000a symlink is just a ponter to a path, it makes no difference what fs type the target is on20:52
sp3000pointer even20:52
rm_youah no20:52
rm_youright i know20:52
rm_youi thought it was moving the link to a fat32 system20:52
sp3000anyhow, wtf is bb chown managing to fail there?20:53
rm_youbtw, what does happen if you move a symlink to a fat32?20:53
sp3000it's like it's trying to traverse a symlink on -R, which I think would be ...bad?20:53
Stskeepssp3000: cos it recurses into .images and cannot chown on a fat32..20:53
rm_youdoes it copy the file?20:53
sp3000Stskeeps: $USER@random-ubuntu-box:~$ mkdir test; ln -s /root test/root && chown -R $USER test && echo $? => 020:54
Stskeepssp3000: so chown behaviour differs in busybox and in normal chown?20:54
rm_youanyway, bbiab20:54
sp3000~ $ mkdir test; ln -s /root test/root && chown -R $USER test && echo $?20:55
Stskeepssp3000: check for busybox bug report, the busybox on tablet is .. old20:55
sp3000chown: test/root: Operation not permitted20:55
sp3000oh ffs20:55
sp3000yeah, that's clearly insane :)20:55
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melmothit is a real pain to use the autobuilder with a long chain if dependencies...20:58
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sp3000Stskeeps: probably not it21:00
sp3000 is later21:00
sp3000~ $ mkdir test; ln -s /root test/root && chown -P $USER test && echo $?21:00
sp3000chown: invalid option -- P21:00
sp3000Usage: chown [-RhLHP]...  OWNER[<.|:>[GROUP]] FILE...21:01
johnxa winner is you!21:01
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* lcuk2 waves at qole21:08
* qole plays with liqbase21:09
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lcuk2i blew his machine up21:10
Stskeeps <- FINALLY, some sanity21:12
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lcuk2Stskeeps, its nice to hear things like that21:14
Stskeepswe can get it down to maybe 15 seconds, but that's about it and all of the OS won't be loaded at that point21:15
* melmoth despair with the autobuilder.21:15
melmothanybody knows why apt-get source only see old version of pakcages ?21:16
melmothand why is there no apt-get source available for the non devel extra repo ?21:16
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, isn't it great how igor always brings the awesome?21:20
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: authoriative statements are always good21:20
Stskeepsor atleast someone who's actually been working with it21:21
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dick-richardsonWhat consumer electronics device boots in 5s? None of my cell phones have. My palm pda didn't (though it was probably closest). Just leave the thing run.21:23
lcuk2my video does21:23
dick-richardsonmine doesn't :(21:23
lcuk2and the wii does21:23
GeneralAntillesMy calculator does. :P21:23
GeneralAntillesThe Wii so does not.21:23
lcuk2im sure it does21:24
* lcuk2 rechecks21:24
Stskeepsdick-richardson: i think it would be possible if you did proper dependancy booting and goal-oriented such as start bluetooth services when needed and stuff21:24
Stskeepsand that's the goal with OHM/Upstart21:24
Stskeepsbut it's a lot of tedious work21:24
dick-richardsonpointless...improve power management so it doesn't have to21:24
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dick-richardsonthen you have "instant on" and a host of other benefits21:25
GeneralAntillesdick-richardson, yeah, that's what Nokia is actually doing. ;)21:25
Stskeepssuspend to sd could be interesting21:25
lcuk2and wasteful and bugfidden21:25
lcuk2my phone takes about 30sec to boot up and thats a simple thing21:25
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Stskeepsi think a soft reboot might be a good thing for maemo21:27
Stskeepskill X, restart services21:27
Stskeepsthat's 99% of my non-deblet related reboots21:27
dick-richardsoneasy enough...i do it all the time21:27
dick-richardsonjust need an icon for 'sudo init 6'21:27
dick-richardsonwhich I also have21:28
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johnxlcuk2, booting the wii from cold power off? or the usual "suspend" it does?21:28
GeneralAntillesdick-richardson, /etc/systemui/systemui.xml21:28
lcuk2i dunno, i just know ive never had an extended wait period21:28
GeneralAntillesIt's not really a slow boot either way21:28
GeneralAntillesBut when you count the game startup time. :P21:29
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: my gripe isn't really the slow boot21:29
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: it's how much it rapes the battery when not on charger21:29
GeneralAntillesI want one of those little jet engines for the tablet.21:29
Stskeepsi'd be happy with a fuel cell21:29
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Stskeepswarming your pocket with sweet radiation..21:31
dick-richardsonor hand-crank21:31
GeneralAntilles5 or 6 german cockroaches on treadmills.21:31
johnxradio-isotope FTW!21:31
ShadowJKmine went 83.6% -> 82.8% in 30 minutes, screen off, xchat online via wlan, and a shell to it to tail -f the battery.log battery-status is updating every 10 minutes...21:31
StskeepsShadowJK: i imported my settings from chinook.. i suspect that's what is fucking with it21:32
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ShadowJKI did that too21:32
ShadowJKexcept apps, I reinstalled manually21:32
ShadowJKodd :)21:32
ShadowJKthe battery.log is even being written to sd :)21:33
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GeneralAntillesWhy random announcements about new MIDs are relevant and on-topic for maemo-users:
dick-richardsonthat systemui.xml...I uncommented reboot - where will I see it?21:34
johnxShadowJK, though those numbers are far from accurate, even though they have lots of digits21:34
GeneralAntillesdick-richardson, powerkey menu.21:34
dick-richardsonmust have to reboot to have it reload...21:34
GeneralAntillesdick-richardson, yes.21:34
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: ~50000 backlog?21:34
ShadowJKjohnx, yeah I noticed they decrement in steps of .421:34
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, hmm?21:35
dick-richardsonGeneralAntilles: hell of a lot cleaner than my previous solution21:35
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: i'm not sure if you are sarcastic or not, but the number of order backlog is actually bloody impressive :P21:35
johnxGeneralAntilles, who cares? why argue about it and spam the list even more?21:35
GeneralAntillesjohnx, I'm not.21:36
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, perhaps, but it's still entirely irrelevant to that list. :P21:36
Stskeepsthat's probably true, yes21:36
ShadowJKatom probably still eats power when idle, and the chipsets totally suck at the moment :-(21:36
johnxGeneralAntilles, sorry, jumped to conclusions21:36
ShadowJKthat said, i have a Atom330 board arriving next week21:36
GeneralAntillesI heard 24W at idle for one particular Atom board.21:36
GeneralAntillesNo "probably" about it.21:37
ShadowJKthe chipset eats 22W :)21:37
GeneralAntillesOMAP2 sucks next to nothing at idle, and OMAP3 basically sucks nothing.21:37
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: when i get beagleboard at work i'll start hw-support packages for them btw, if that has any interest :P21:37
ShadowJKif they'd atleast put a laptop chipset with atom..21:37
GeneralAntillesShadowJK, well, the whole Beagle eats just under 2W at complete full-blast.21:37
johnxShadowJK, the fact that it still has to be anchored to another chipset to boot tells you how useful it will be in real embedded systems21:37
johnxStskeeps, how are the builds going?21:38
Stskeepsjohnx: hildon-desktop lacks some dependancies, but libosso1-dev, libhildonhelp, libhildon are there21:38
johnxStskeeps, why not use hildon-desktop from debian?21:38
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Stskeepsjohnx: later version and hope(?) that it didn't screw up as bad as debian hildon-desktop did for me21:39
johnxah, what happened with it?21:39
Stskeepsloads of icons not being able to load, even if hildon-icons and themes etc were installed21:39
Stskeepsnot sure why21:39
ShadowJKDo you think there'll be support in linux for the 3D cores in arms in the future?21:39
Stskeepsit did start sapwood and everything21:40
GeneralAntillesShadowJK, the drivers for the SGX are shipping early next year.21:40
johnxah, I think hildon-icons isn't very complete. it's just the open source subset. so yeah, I guess the ubuntu packages are a more complete starting point21:40
Stskeepsjohnx: well it didn't get remotely close to being usable21:40
* johnx should poke at mojo-ubuntu again :/21:40
Stskeepsno edges and stuff21:40
johnxStskeeps, no side panels?21:41
Stskeepsdark goo, to be precise21:41
Stskeepsbut clickable left bar21:41
Stskeepsjohnx: ublet is pretty easy to make work on tablet21:41
Stskeepsit's an alternate debootstrap script but the whole init script tricks and stuff are the same21:42
Stskeepsso it would probably be just replacing debootstrap and release name to get it rolling21:42
johnxis the ubuntu mobile stuff in their main repo or is it outside?21:43
Stskeepsthink it's main repo21:43
Stskeepsfound several in main repo so21:43
johnxwell, the core stuff would be21:43
johnxha! I know what to try it on. I'll slap it on my zaurus :)21:45
Stskeepstrying mojo or?21:46
Stskeepsor getting deblet on zaurus :P21:46
rm_youI kind of wish I had a Cxx00 periodically >_>21:46
johnxStskeeps, debian works on zaurus in plain vanilla form21:46
johnxrm_you, nah, they're too slow21:46
rm_youbut neat21:46
johnxpainfully slow vs an n80021:46
rm_youdid they ever fix video?21:47
rm_youlack of proper fb support?21:47
johnxcan't really be fixed21:47
johnxthe fb is rotated in software21:47
rm_youthought it was a driver issue or summat21:47
johnxnothing to be done about it21:47
johnxthey could optimize it more, but no one seems interested21:47
rm_youwhy does the rotation matter again?21:47
* Stskeeps wonders how expensive a beagleboard laptop would be21:48
Stskeeps(to construct)21:48
johnxbecause to make it transparent to software you have to do it in the kernel for everything21:48
johnxStskeeps, I've had the same idea. repeatedly. the psions look like a great shell to start with...21:48
johnxrm_you, the cxx00 really is closer to 5500 performance than n800 performance21:49
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johnx~lart Intel for long pipelines21:49
rm_youthe 5500 played good video >_<21:49
* infobot decapitates Intel conan the destroyer style for long pipelines21:49
johnxrm_you, on a screen with 1/4 the pixels21:49
johnxnot rotated21:49
rm_youthe rotation shouldnt matter21:49
rm_youmplayer will do software rotation at almost no cost21:50
RST38hjohnx: Hey that was offensive!21:50
rm_youi'm still not understanding why it matters21:50
johnxRST38h, tell me how the pxa ARMs and P4s weren't a horrible mistake21:50
RST38hjohnx: P4s were, I can't say much about XScale as it is no longer with us21:51
johnxrm_you, well, if it gets more optimized that would definitely help21:51
rm_youeh whatever. gotta go back to being gone :P21:51
RST38hjohnx: but the real problem in P4, according to independent sources, was speculative execution21:51
johnxRST38h, a 400MHz xscale is a lot slower than a 400MHz OMAP221:51
RST38hjohnx: yea, I know that...21:52
johnxand it wasn't a great advance on the strongarm either21:52
lcuk810damn this xchat, how do i make it let me enter a chan, its not lettin me type on the initial dialog21:52
GAN800Stskeeps, well, sourcing a dislay that'll work with the dvi is gonna be painful.21:52
RST38hOh well, poor XScale has been sold to the Chinese slave owners and will surely die horrible death of starwation21:52
RST38hstarvation, sorry21:52
StskeepsGAN800: yeah, true21:52
GAN800Stskeeps, you can probably put one of those Xenarc touchscreens in a smaller frame.21:53
GAN800But that's $50021:53
RST38hjohnx: Ideally, I would like to it to take all the remaining PocketPCs with it21:53
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johnxRST38h, I don't care about those as long as no one points one at me21:53
johnx(and as long as I don't have to work in any IT dept ever again where we support WinMo phones)21:54
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RST38hjohnx: Well, those are far from dead yet21:55
RST38hand the market for them grows21:55
RST38hbtw, geeks absolutely love 'em here: those WinMo phones have got all the bells and whistles and they are cheap21:56
johnxI think I'd probably rather support iphones21:56
melmothI m going mad...
RST38hreal wonder of chinese manufacturing21:56
melmothcan somebody tell me waht "size mismatch" in the autobuidler may mean ?21:56
RST38hmelmoth: It doesn't like you?21:57
melmothI spent the whole afternoon struggling with the builder instead of coding :-(21:57
melmothi really dont like it neither.21:57
RST38hlooks like it has not found a package21:58
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melmothThe package is ther,e i just had to re re re re re push it again21:58
RST38his clucene your package?21:58
melmothi dotn have any src deb for stuf fi put in extras.21:58
melmothyes, i have a long chain of dependencies to re build from scratch. clucene core/sword/python-sword/rapier21:59
GAN800lol . . . there's a weightwatchers app in Extras.21:59
RST38hsize mismatch usually means that the repo scripts have fucked up21:59
RST38hmelmoth: So I suggest you catch X-Fade and tell him about it21:59
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RST38hautobuilder appears to be a permanent disaster though =(22:00
lcuk810it built itself22:01
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RST38hyes but then there was a problem putting it into extras-devel22:02
yergamelmoth, if you upload the same version of a package twice to the repo could happen the size mismatch error22:03
melmothi did not22:03
melmothi use dch each time to increment it22:03
lcuk810mmm nice22:03
lcuk810does it work22:03
melmothand as the autobuilder eat the change sword src package , each time, i have to remake all the change22:03
* melmoth has the waste of time blues22:04
yergammm, i received two mails from the autobuilder mailing list with clucene-core 0.9.20-422:04
Komzpahi everybody. how can I add cyrillic letters і and ў, to the screen keyboard and handwriting recognition?22:04
yerga30 min ago and 15 min ago22:04
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RST38hKompza: why is it a problem?22:04
RST38hKompza: Cyrillic keyboard has C22:05
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KomzpaRST38h: those letters are used in belarusian language, and they're absent on both keyboard and handwriting.22:07
RST38hKompza: the letters you typed look like C? and C? (i.e. normal Cs with question marks)22:07
RST38hKompza: But if you want to add a few letters to the standard layout, look here:
RST38hAnd here:
KomzpaRST38h: probably encodings are different, they look like i and y with tilde.22:08
RST38hFound them on Wiki22:09
RST38hYou should be able to add them using scripts from the second URL22:09
Macerhm... something is wrong with either qt or kde22:12
Macerseems like fonts aren't redrawing correctly.. when i scroll a window they get all screwed22:12
* melmoth gies up22:12
melmothpersonal repository it will be22:12
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KomzpaRST38h: thanks.22:14
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RST38hmelmoth: you know there is one more way to do it22:26
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GeneralAntillesnon-free is not a valid answer.22:30
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mikkov_melmoth: clucene-core was uploaded twice to extras-devel without changing version number.22:37
mikkov_if there were any changes between uploads, it wont work at all22:38
melmothnothing changes except version number.22:38
mikkov_I would try to change version number anyway22:38
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RST38hmelmoth: increment version number, resubmit, see what happens22:39
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melmothtoo many problems...just too many22:39
RST38hif it still screws up, make a sacrifice to the Green One and ask him to visit XFade in his dreams22:39
RST38hbut yes, in the worst case non-free it is.22:40
melmothi m building my own repo. once i have something working where i can change and fix things fast, without having to wait an hour to see the package, without wondering where the src may be, then i may take a break, and focus on coding.22:40
melmoththen, i may re try to push it on extras22:41
RST38hown repo definitely isn't a good idea22:41
GAN800RST38h, free things in non-free will be deleted.22:41
RST38hGAN: non-free means "source not available"22:42
RST38hthe stuff there is actually free :)22:42
lcuk2melmoth, get it working first using your own, but 100% agree with general that you shouldnt use it.  of course its best to learn about it but dont add to the fragmentation longterm22:42
GAN800RST38h, um, your point?22:42
GAN800open source packages don't belong in non-free.22:43
RST38hGAN: as long as melmoth does not make source available, it is non-free =)22:43
lcuk2i know what you mean about losing coding time, i held off on packaging and svn and releases for such an age, and when i did do first svn upload, i lost almost a months worth of coding time getting it up and talking to people about it and stuff22:43
melmothRST38h: all i uploaded was uploaded with sources.22:44
mikkov_clucene-core and -dev installs for me...22:45
melmothnot my code anyway in this chain, except for the final package (rapier), who is free (it s python..hard to do hide sources even i wanted to, wich i do not)22:45
melmoththey installed for me too, it s just the build of sword that needs them that failed22:45
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lcuk2melmoth, open source and free are two different issues :)22:47
RST38hok, try this: 1. increment version number on clucene and upload it22:47
lcuk2hi dneary22:47
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RST38h2. make sure your main package requires the "new" clucene or better (i.e. >=)22:47
RST38h3. Retry build22:47
mikkov_for me only problem with autobuilder is that it is too slow and you can't make batch jobs22:49
Mekbtw, there are both a clucene-core/-dev and libclucene-core/-dev that are mutually exclusive in extras-devel...22:50
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RST38hsega is getting back into console business...hehehe22:56
woglindeRST38h hehe22:57
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crashanddiewhat format does the webcam use on the n8x0? V4L2?23:02
lcukcrashanddie, yes23:03
crashanddieapparently there's a hack for the eee, which uses that format too23:04
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crashanddiein order to be able to use the webcam with flash23:04
Stskeepsyeah, qole mentioned it23:05
* lcuk giggles at that picture23:05
RST38hlcuk: scary23:05
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GAN800and I was thinking igor's post might actually end that stupid thread.23:08
crashanddiegod I love this song:
StskeepsGAN800: i hoped so too..23:11
RST38hunsubscribe and forget23:11
crashanddiegod I hate the itT forum23:12
GAN800It's a bad drug.23:12
RST38hunsubscribe and forget23:12
Stskeepscrashanddie: i don't mind some parts of it that i enjoy, but a lot of the rest.. :P23:12
GAN800I don't subscribe.23:12
crashanddieI'm not talking about the content23:13
crashanddiejust the forum software23:13
GAN800I just need andre to kill the bug23:13
StskeepsGAN800: "Council Edition"?23:13
GAN800Stskeeps, hopefull we wont be doing all the work. ;)23:14
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Stskeepsno, but could be a interesting way to control the edition and push more towards features of it being pushed into os2008 :P23:15
crashanddie"HAI Nokia, this is a bug so that I can play World of Warcraft on the n810"23:16
Stskeepsis there corruption on extras devel or something?23:16
Stskeepstwo people saying size mismatch errors today23:16
GAN800I hear X-Fade is taking kick-backs.23:16
crashanddieBtw, is git in extras?23:16
crashanddieI saw it in builder, but can't find it with apt-cache23:17
lcukcan i play Diablo 3 on my n810, someone said it had been released23:17
RST38hRailroad Porn: (no those steam engines are not natural)23:17
GAN800Stskeeps, no, I think it's just packager failures.23:17
mikkov_git is in extras-devel23:18
lcukRST38h, my youngest loves trains, ive saved the link and will get him to tell me what each of them pics is ;)23:20
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* lcuk had to draw James the otherday :| i'm crap at drawing23:20
* GAN800 had a wooden train whistle as a kid.23:20
lcukheh, jake has so much train stuff its unreal sometimes :)23:21
RST38hat least it is not 1:20 tonka trucks...23:21
lcukindestructable :)23:22
RST38hwhich can't be said about the stuff they crash into23:23
lcuki actually think tonka trucks will be the only thing left in the next great age.  when future historians and archeologists dig up our fossils, they will think we were under 12 inches high and drove yellow trucks all day23:23
lcukomg we are the friggin doozers23:24
crashanddie"I have found proof our ancestors lived with leprechauns and gnomes on a daily basis, our palaeontologist is pretty sure they even left a special room for them"23:25
RST38hI wonder what they will tell of iPods...23:26
lcuk"sir, this polished rock responds to touch.  they must stroke them every day to ward of evil spirits."23:27
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crashanddie"It would appear that in this highly individualistic culture, people were so afraid to actually bond with unknown people, or even have a link with them, they would completely seal themselves off from the outside world. Xenophobia at its most extreme point"23:28
lcuk"john, thats a fozzilized turd"23:28
crashanddie"gary, that's a fossilised apple"23:28
crashanddiebtw, any reason why flash 10 doesn't work on the NIT?23:29
lcukprobably same reason why svg doesnt23:29
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GAN800It hasn't been compiled for armel?23:29
GAN800lcuk, no.23:29
GAN800svg doesn't work because support wasn't included with MicroB23:30
GAN800Save time, space, and effort.23:30
lcukyes,yes,yes - i know - im the master of minimalistic approaches.23:31
lcuk(apart form having to code my way through the jungle and basically start from scratch that it)23:31
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RST38hGAN: The actual explanation has probably been "ah, fuck it all"23:45
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GAN800RST38h, 'not enough time' and 'ah, fuck it all' aren't too different.23:47
RST38hwell with flash 10 there could be a different explanation23:47
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RST38has in "Adobe did not provide source code and/or support on time"23:48
GAN800Not worth the effort for a platform that makes up only a very small portion of a percent of your userbase.23:48
GAN800The Flash 10 code still sucks anyway.23:48
GAN800Adobe provides the Flash plugin on the tablets.23:49
GAN800Not Nokia23:49
ldrnDid Nokia pay adobe to do it?23:49
GAN800Yes, same situation as Opera.23:50
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ldrnMaybe Adobe is just taking their time. :)23:51
GAN800The code's not in a state for shipping anyway.23:51
GAN800and there's no point wasting the time to include such a small platform in your testing.23:52
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crashanddiewould just add a shitload of features, considering the flash version shipped with diablo completely killed all the audio/video input capabilities (which were already fairly non-existent)23:53
ldrnNot until after you get the bugs ironed out in all the big platforms anyway.23:53
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RST38hAdobe is supposed to give Flash code for free to developers23:57
RST38hIt has been proclaimed to be "open source" some time ago but I do not think that anybody has got it since then23:58
MangoFusioni thought that was flex?23:58
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RST38hdon't remember the exact details, just remember that flash player has been "open sourced" whatever adobe meant by that23:59

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