IRC log of #maemo for Monday, 2008-09-29

zaphmm, fakeroot does not work in scratchbox x8600:00
Jaredunot too bad00:00
Jareducould be a bit better00:00
zapsomebody can try to invoke "fakeroot id -u" from x86 scratchbox?00:00
JaffaJaredu: Yes, Inkscape isn't the best tool for this kind of thing. See my mail for more details on what I think are the biggest problems at the moment with it.00:00
zapscreenshot looks k00l00:00
Jareduit has good concept though00:01
woglindejaffa ALFA sound driver?00:01
Jareduthe only thing i could biff with it is the placement of the buttons on the top right00:01
JaffaOops. Hang on :-)00:01
Jareduthe rest is nice00:01
zapALFA quality ALSA driver :)00:01
GeneralAntillesJaffa, Ubuntu + OpenSUSE? :P00:01
JaffaALFA is the name of my employer's product :)00:01
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RST38hJaffa: this is not something I would use on daily basis00:02
JaffaGeneralAntilles: when in doubt...00:02
RST38hJaffa: instead, it looks like a copycat of SUSE page.00:02
GeneralAntillesWay too much whitespace at the top.00:02
RST38hJaffa: Maybe if you line up those garish top buttons into a single line and make them just a little bit smaller...00:03
zapbut this is only the titlepage00:03
* Jaffa would disagree on "way"00:03
RST38hJaffa: And drop sections that are irrelevant to 99% users...00:04
JaffaAnd which sections are irrelevant to 99% of users?00:04
zapGet software :)00:04
RST38hJaffa: Community Activity (nobody to do it by hand and automatic generation impossible)00:04
* Jaffa isn't happy with the left of the buttons and the positioning of "About"00:05
RST38hJaffa: Bugs Activity (same thing)00:05
RST38hJaffa: Developers Activity (same thing)00:05
mavhcif you're choosing 4 colours for different sections then colour those sections accordingly00:05
JaffaRST38h: No, it's not impossible to do either. I've outlined algorithms which could do both and could implement them in a day00:05
RST38hJaffa: About (too short for a newbie, useless for a regular)00:05
Jaffamavhc: in terms of the portlets, or the themes for the pages in those sections?00:05
RST38hJaffa: Well, if you demonstrate a working algorithm that will create USEFUL summary of bugzilla and itt activity, I will be the first to support inclusing of these sections onto the main page00:06
JaffaThe portlets do have colouration which matches, but it may be too subtle at the moment. I'm not sure the pages themselves are technically feasible. The current background orange is basically the logo orange.00:06
mavhcalso where the "I'm a noob" section, what repositaries should I add, what does chinook mean, etc00:06
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RST38hJaffa: But please, do start by making those ugly colorful buttons smaller and lining them up00:07
Jaffamavhc: a) That's under "Add-ons"; b) Nokia are going to push as the primary end-user site, and so is only for more adventurous end-users etc.00:07
RST38hbtw, does your page resize?00:07
mavhcI suppose the news section being non coloured confused the issue00:07
JaffaRST38h: yes, a fluid layout is essential for any website00:07
mavhcshould be a link to that then, as this'll be higher in google pagerank00:08
Jaffamavhc: Probably something to put in the about box, or have mini-ads like the current does.00:08
JaffaAnyway, I'm going to bed. I wanted to shape the discussion and last night the only conclusion was "provide mockups".00:09
JaffaI'm confident that the algorithms I describe in -community are implementable. If you disagree, take it there and we'll hammer out the detail of the algorithm in a more permanent form :-)00:09
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RST38hJaffa: Please do provide a reference implementation00:10
RST38hBecause saying they are implementable and implementing them are two different things =(00:10
GeneralAntillesRST38h, see -community.00:11
JaffaI already outlined the algorithm on -community00:11
RST38hno, outline won't do00:11
RST38hI want to see that generating a USEFUL summary of itt, mailing lists, or bugzilla is possible00:11
JaffaRST38h: specific comments as to why the algorithm won't work are, of course, welcome.00:11
RST38hNo, you do not get it00:12
JaffaIt's a basic rolling average, to weight stuff which is more active higher than just newest.00:12
RST38hIt is like the perpetual motion patent submission process00:12
* Jaffa does. You don't believe me.00:12
Jaffa<sigh />00:12
RST38hPatent is only accepted when you provide a working sample00:12
GeneralAntillesRST38h, see -community.00:12
JaffaI'm happy I could code it. I'm not *going* to code it until there's consensus that it's useful. I'm not going to discuss it on IRC because a) it's transient, b) I'm tired; c) it's what -community is for.00:13
JaffaI'm not suggesting it's a spec I could give to one of my junior developers, but - then - it doesn't need to be (yet).00:13
RST38hit IS useful. If it works.00:13
mavhc btw00:13
Jaffamavhc: ta00:14
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JaffaG'night, all.00:17
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AStormhow can I make modest display multiple imap accounts?00:57
AStorm(it shows only one at a time)00:57
jottpatch it?00:57
jotti guess there is already a bug opened somewhere.00:58
jottyou can switch them with the nice nested menu :P00:58
doc|homeAStorm: modest sucks, claws is much better00:59
GeneralAntillesClaws sucks for finger use01:00
* doc|home shrugs01:00
doc|homeI'll take multiple accounts + not crashing over finger use01:00
doc|homealthough it's been a while since I tried modest01:00
GeneralAntillesPoint being, statements like "It sucks" aren't really very useful.:P01:00
jottit just aggregates a long list of flaws :P01:01
doc|homeit does01:01
GeneralAntillesWorks fine for me.01:01
doc|homeeven the pre-modest mail client was better than modest01:01
doc|homefrom a user point of view01:02
GeneralAntillesThat thing never worked for me.01:02
GeneralAntillesSo I don't know what you're talking about.01:02
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doc|homeworked for me01:02
GeneralAntillesReally, though, if you haven't tried Modest in a while, you probably shouldn't talk. :P01:02
doc|homedoes it support multiple imap accounts?01:03
GeneralAntillesJust fine.01:03
GeneralAntillesJust not in one pane.01:03
AStormyes, but shows one at a time01:03
jottmaybe someone is bored or annoyed enough to patch it.01:04
jotthopefully it shouldn't be that hard.01:04
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jotthah the svn log of modest does not seem that helpful.01:06
jott"* fixes all around " "* many fixes" "* new & improved modest" " * update" " *many changes" hilarious :)01:07
GeneralAntillesI bitched at the about that.01:07
GeneralAntillesThread on -developers01:07
jott ah any reasonable response?01:08
GeneralAntillesCheck the thread01:09
GeneralAntillesyou decide.01:09
jottas "* updates" is 2 weeks old01:09
jottkk :)01:09
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jottthanks. it's not just the changelog but also the commit messages :/01:11
jottequally funny.01:12
GeneralAntillesAdd another reply about those.01:12
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jpereiransomebody has problem for running pygtk on sdk?02:07
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E78C8EE4BABAcan anybody point me at info installing perldoc and cpan on diablo?05:28
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mdgis it possible to send something to printet from 770?06:27
summatusmentisyou want to do what?06:28
mdgsend web page to a wireless printrr06:29
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mdgis cups available for 770?06:34
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mdgIwould probably have to use remote desktop?06:42
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mdgiwould have to use remote desktop to do that?06:45
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prakis os2008 installed to have usb communication with a host computer properly by default?07:25
KotCzarnyyes, in device mode by default07:25
praki'm having problems with it right now07:28
prakhow would the device be in device mode?07:28
KotCzarnybecause it can07:35
KotCzarnyand apparently that's how engineers designed it07:35
praki mean how do i get the device to be in device mode07:35
KotCzarnyit is in device mode07:35
KotCzarnyif you want to connect keyboard to nokia you have to switch to host mode07:36
KotCzarnyif you want to connect to pc, you have to be in device mode07:36
praki think i got it07:37
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slonopotamushello. looks like I broke autobuilder's builder1 :(08:49
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slonopotamusit started building db_4.6.21-8maemo1 2 days ago and never ended08:49
slonopotamusthe bad thing is that other builders do not restart build (however I've performed reupload)08:50
slonopotamuswhere should I ask for help with it?08:51
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slonopotamusand what happened to builder1?08:52
melmothslonopotamus: try to get in touch with X-Fade.08:52
GeneralAntillesX-Fade or Ed Bartosh on -developers.08:52
melmothAnd file a bug at bugzilla.maemo.org08:52
slonopotamusGeneralAntilles, you mean mailing list?08:53
GeneralAntillesX-Fade'll likely be about in a few hours.08:53
* slonopotamus touches X-Fade08:53
GeneralAntillesYes. We generally refer to the mailing lists by their suffixes.08:54
slonopotamusok. thanks08:54
slonopotamusi really didn't want to break it :(08:57
KotCzarnyalways keep a backup?08:57
slonopotamusKotCzarny, ?08:57
KotCzarnybefore you break something, always make a backup?08:58
slonopotamusKotCzarny, i could not backup builder1 :( i'm just poor package uploader08:59
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KotCzarnythen it's not your fault?08:59
slonopotamusit stopped working while it was building my package.08:59
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KotCzarnyyes, you triggered a bug, not your's09:00
slonopotamusbtw. anyone tried to build openldap or cyrus-sasl?09:01
slonopotamusthey have cyclic build dependency on each other in debian repo. i don't get it.09:02
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slonopotamuswoops. i've pressed something.09:03
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RST38hmoo all09:26
qwerty12hey RST38h09:26
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qwerty12Jeez... Nokia sure don't waste no time:
KotCzarnymaybe they just broke something?09:28
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qwerty12morning solmumaha09:29
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RST38hqwerty: 4.1.1??09:33
KotCzarnyhe left09:33
slonopotamusi bet next version will be
RST38hare they just going to add .1 with each update?09:34
* KotCzarny is still at 4.0.109:34
RST38hor will they reach canonical ip address format and start incrementing?09:34
RST38hkot: no diablo? why?09:35
KotCzarnychinook works for me09:35
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RST38hagps is a huge advantage though09:35
KotCzarnyon n800?09:36
KotCzarnyand if i really need some package i can install just that one, right?09:36
KotCzarny+ deps09:36
RST38hand obviously you do not want to "enjoy" modest?09:36
RST38hdont think so09:36
KotCzarnyit's that email program, right?09:36
RST38honce you install a package it will bring the whole diablo as a depensency09:37
KotCzarnyi don't use it then09:37
RST38hgood for you...09:37
KotCzarnyas for dependency, i can build from source, probably09:37
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KotCzarnyor hack .deb09:37
KotCzarnyit's a hacker's device, isn't it?09:38
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RST38hthats breaking it not hacking it:)09:40
KotCzarnybreaking is essential part of hacking09:40
RST38hqwerty: so, are they gonna continue adding .1 you think?09:40
qwerty12RST38h, I wouldn't know :P. If maemo 5 is the next maemo, 4.1.1 sounds odd :/09:41
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* GeneralAntilles suspects we're due for another update RSN09:43
RST38hwhat are your sources?=)09:46
slonopotamusis mamona usable? i'm a little bit nervous about maemo 5 and it's support on n8xx.09:48
qwerty12maemo 5 won't be supported officially on n8x0. There may be a HE but that's probably me starting a rumour.09:49
RST38hdeblet is, somewhat09:49
KotCzarnyis n810 successor announced already?09:49
RST38hyes, it is asus eee!09:50
* RST38h breaks into evil laughter09:50
KotCzarnyisn't it backcessor?09:50
RST38hassessor, yesss...09:50
GeneralAntillesqwerty12, how do you figure?09:50
GeneralAntillesThere's nothing official at all about Maemo 5 + N8x009:51
RST38hgan: clutter.09:51
slonopotamusGeneralAntilles, that's what i'm talking about09:51
qwerty12GeneralAntilles, brontide said from when he was at the summit it won't be for older devices.09:51
GeneralAntillesThe answer from Nokia is "We're not sure"09:51
RST38hgan: given plans for clutter n8x0 will be a no-go09:51
GeneralAntillesIt's still up in the air.09:51
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GeneralAntillesNow, that's not to say that the outlook is particularly positive.09:51
GeneralAntillesBut the answer definitely isn't "No" yet.09:51
slonopotamusnext device will have more powerful cpu. that may be the reason maemo 5 won't (or if will then slowly) run on n8x009:52
slonopotamushowever powerful cpus are good :)09:52
GeneralAntillesRight, there are a lot of reasons it _may not_ run on OMAP2 hardware.09:52
GeneralAntillesBut Nokia isn't far enough along with Fremantle to be able to know for sure.09:53
slonopotamusi see. let's wait then.09:53
slonopotamusand repair builder1.09:53
samppa /J ecoach09:54
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qwerty12Ok. I know 4.1.1 is an diablo update.09:58
qwerty12First ssu update brought us diablo-109:58
qwerty12Now there is diablo-209:58
KotCzarnyor, diablo 1.1 ?09:59
KotCzarnydiablo-2 would be 4.2.x09:59
KotCzarnyor no09:59
KotCzarnyor whatever09:59
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GeneralAntillesqwerty12, is there a diablo-2?10:00
GeneralAntilleson tableteer?10:00
qwerty12Empty though according to packages list.10:01
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prakwhat application would you recommend for sync'ing to do list with the ones on
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prakwhat application would you recommend for sync'ing to do list with the ones on
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JaffaMorning, all11:01
GAN800Hey, Jaffa.11:01
JaffaGAN800: I thought you were trying to move to a more "normal" sleep pattern ;-)11:02
GAN800Was and failed.11:02
KotCzarnyand he was the first one to finger point at people that have weird sleep patterns11:02
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GAN800Shitty speller.11:03
KotCzarnyi'm not native speaker, ty11:04
KotCzarnydo you know any other language?11:04
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RST38hlooks better this way?11:06
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fantasticfoxLo, I've got the UK edition of the N810 Wimax on preorder (for a month or so now, due in a few weeks I hope)... do you folks think its worth it or is there any rumours of another wimax device on the horizon ?11:09
GAN800UK edition?11:10
GAN800There's a UK edition?11:10
GAN800News to me.11:11
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fantasticfoxFreedom4 (a company of Pipex) are launching wimax services in 12 major UK cities at the end of the year11:11
fantasticfoxgood timing11:11
GAN800Sounds more like a scam to me.11:11
fantasticfoxNo it's official, theres more than one site doing preorders for it11:11
JaffaNo, it's official. And Expansys are fairly trustworthy11:12
fantasticfoxAnd Expanys is a respected mobile device shop11:12
GAN800The N810W is Sprint-only as far as I'm aware.11:12
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X-FadeGAN800: Nah, it will be available in more countries.11:12
GAN800OK then, nevermind.11:12
JaffaGAN800: Not in any technical capacity. Sprint are the only people who've advertised they're going to use it. It was always going to be available on other people and countries11:12
fantasticfoxI'm gonna pair it with my E51, but one day I've love to ditch the E51 and go Wimax + VoIP11:12
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: At the summit I have seen one with a russian keyboard. So ;)11:13
GAN800Jaffa, well, as far as being 2.5GHz11:13
Jaffafantasticfox: There are other WiMAX devices, but there're no suggestions on an additional WiMAX Maemo device11:13
fantasticfoxSo no 'rumours' of new handsets?  i.e. Do you think I'll buy the N810W and then regret it? :P11:13
GAN800Yeah, I'd figure I'd hear about it, though. But I could really give two shits about WiMAX soooo. . . .11:14
JaffaGAN800: and you know the frequency Freedom4 are operating on?11:14
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* GAN800 sighs11:14
Jaffafantasticfox: No way of knowing: very few people have WiMAX experience11:14
KotCzarnyif they are announcing, it should be supported11:15
fantasticfoxBT are rumoured to complete it's 21CN network to rural areas via WiMax11:15
KotCzarnyunless chip allows for freq programming11:15
Jaffafantasticfox: Yeah, I'd heard that too. Interesting.11:15
fantasticfoxJaffa, I work in the VoIP industry, and also broadband ...11:20
fantasticfoxAn era of no PSTN, no ISDN, no GSM... and just VDSL and WiMax might be around the corner umm 2011 ish11:20
fantasticfoxaltho I think they've gone for VDSL2+ now11:20
KotCzarnythat assuming sun cycle won't fry electronics on earth11:21
fantasticfoxVDSL2 thats the one, 50mbps down a phone line with no phone on it11:21
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fantasticfoxI was thinking of going for one of those google phones, since its the first purpose built linux pda/phone with 3G/HSDPA capability that i've seen11:25
fantasticfoxbut since I've already got the E51 to pair with a nokia tablet, and Maemo is much more developed11:25
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fantasticfoxandroid doesn't support native programs?  googlified-java programs only? thats crud11:31
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fantasticfoxI don't want another silly locked down piece of crap! I get that with my mobile!11:31
fantasticfoxHow certain do you folks think Nokia's interest in Maemo is given Symbian has gone open source?11:32
fantasticfoxor will be rather11:33
KotCzarnysymbian is complicated to program for11:33
KotCzarnyat least for a start11:33
aquatixsymbian isn't that suitable for a tablet11:33
fantasticfoxtrue but I see tablets as the new phones, combined with a trendy headset - or a star trek comm badge :P11:34
KotCzarnyaquatix, how about s90 ? (that's what 9x00 run?)11:34
GeneralAntillesfantasticfox, Maemo isn't going anywhere anytime soon.11:34
aquatixKotCzarny: myeah, it's possible, even with S60 (see the N90) and symbian still has its epoc roots, and those psions where rather nice11:35
aquatixbut still, i think i like maemo a lot better11:35
aquatixmore apps too i think, or at least more potential11:35
KotCzarnyyes, maemo is built on a linux11:35
KotCzarnyfree software base11:35
RST38hSymbian is grossly overdesigned.11:36
RST38hIt's better than WinMobile though11:36
fantasticfoxI'll get worried when I see Symbian for PDA's11:37
RST38hAnd yes, it ran tablets before (with S90) and can run them again if needed11:37
fantasticfoxI'd rather Symbian die with mobile phones11:37
RST38hWhat do you dislike about Symbian?11:37
fantasticfoxNothing, it's just not Linux :P11:37
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aquatixseries 60 is even getting touch screen capabilities now11:38
aquatixand uiq3 already has for years11:38
RST38hWell, this is not a valid complaint11:38
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aquatixbut still, i think it's a nice phone OS, but i rather not have it on a tablet11:38
RST38hBecause, if needed, I can give you a few arguments why Linux is bad in a tablet (or any commercial device)11:39
fantasticfoxRST38h, ok it's not *nix based, and thats what I'm used to11:39
KotCzarnyrst38h: size?11:39
RST38hKot: For Linux? Reliability and code base stability11:39
KotCzarnyyou gotta be kidding11:40
RST38hKot: If you compare it with BSDs, Linux does look like a toy11:40
KotCzarnyi saw more s60 crashes than linux crashes11:40
RST38hWell, Symbian is a whole different business - it is a nightmare as far as race conditions and deadlocks are concerned11:40
KotCzarnyand no, you can't fix them by yourself11:40
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RST38hKot: You wouldn't even if you had Symbian sources.11:41
RST38hSymbian is *designed( in a way that insures race conditions11:41
KotCzarnythen why you would prefer symbian to linux on phones?11:41
fantasticfoxIt is an interesting topic this, Nokia made it's success off its own hardware but also its own software... and now it's a toss up between Open Symbian, or Open Maemo11:42
fantasticfoxsplit by phone vs tablet, but given gsm may die (I know years from now)... will things blur between which OS to use11:43
GAN800With Qt I think we're moving to more of a synergy between the two than a one-or-the-other proposition.11:43
aquatixhow's that?11:44
aquatixiirc, no qt apps can run on symbian?11:44
aquatixor am i wrong there?11:44
GAN800aquatix, not for the time being.11:45
GAN800But Nokia has already indicated its intentions to have Qt on both and share code.11:45
ccookeSymbian is an interesting piece of work. A friend of mine is on the kernel team there; it's always fun hearing her ranting :-)11:47
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aquatixGAN800: ah, like that11:47
aquatixccooke: :)11:48
ccookeRST38h: part of the problem with Symbian is the way it's deployed. The operators are used to having full control and they demand things which are not always entirely sane11:48
KotCzarnythat means they are insane? (operators)11:48
aquatixnothing new there11:49
RST38hccooke: that is minor11:49
ccookeKotCzarny: well, they're human. That's always a clue.11:49
RST38hThe main problem is that Symbian is heavillu multithreaded by its nature and a lot of APIs are asynchronous11:49
KotCzarnyccooke: you don't have a proof there isn't some hivemind behind the process11:49
RST38hSo, the whole thing spends 30% of its time in a deadlock =)11:49
ccookeRST38h: In the deployed versions, yes.11:50
RST38hKot: It's AT&T! They live in a blue-ribboned sphere!11:50
KotCzarnylucky i'm hooked on t-mobile :)11:50
ccookeSaid friend has a working SMP version. It may even have been deployed somewhere since I last spoke to her about it - I don't actually follow phone tech that much :-)11:50
* aquatix has neither of those operators11:50
KotCzarnydual core phones11:50
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ccookein order to get SMP working, she had to fix a *lot* of deadlocks...11:51
ccooke(well, obviously!)11:51
KotCzarnynow all we need is a x86 based phone11:52
ccookeThat would be interesting. It's inevitable in the end, but I'm not sure it's a usable idea this year :-)11:52
fantasticfoxI see a need for a PDA, and maybe a laptop (so the latter is x86 based, and more freedom in terms of apps - but sit down, train etc use only)11:52
fantasticfoxbut I don't see a need for phone + pda + laptop11:53
RST38hccooke: I am sure she has not fixed em all11:53
ccookeRST38h: there's always one more bug.11:53
RST38hAnd then there are race conditions dependent ON THE UI!11:53
fantasticfoxthats just over kill, get rid of the phone, and either build into the pda - or abandon GSM for Wimax11:53
RST38hccooke: Well, in something like BSD if you encounter a bug it is unusual11:53
ccookefantasticfox: Wimax is a bit of a dead end IIRC11:53
KotCzarnyevery software has bugs..11:53
RST38hccooke: In Symbian, you just need to turn on the phone - and here is the bug!11:54
KotCzarnyor will have11:54
fantasticfoxccooke, It 'looks' it... but if BT take it on in this country, it won't be here11:54
RST38hKot: I would gladly shoot all the people who subscribe for the "every software has bugs" statement11:54
ccookeRST38h: You're being a little harsh, there. It's a decent enough system. It's been taken a little too far without a complete redesign, though.11:54
RST38hKot: Because the key here is not the boolean value ("there exists...") but the statistical number of bugs11:54
RST38hccooke: It is a nice system11:55
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ccookeRST38h: In the abstract, yes :-)11:55
KotCzarnyrst38h: but ultimate failure (bug) is the end user11:55
RST38hccooke: But when you turn on your phone, wait for 40 seconds and then it tells you the "Application Phone has crashed" and continues operation...11:55
RST38hKot: KILL ALL PEOPLE, yes11:55
KotCzarnybecause either you have all the features you want11:56
ccookeRST38h: And I have a soft spot for it, since I'm an ex-Psion user...11:56
KotCzarnyor very unfriendly software11:56
ccookeRST38h: Heh. Never seen that.11:56
RST38hccooke: it is a nice system in principle11:56
RST38hccooke: but they overdesigned it11:56
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ccookeOn the other hand, I've never actually *owned* a symbian phone. Came very close, but they've always been badly designed for me11:56
RST38hIn fact, this is what Nokia is currently doing to Maemo by introducing more services11:56
ccookeRST38h: That's what I mean by going too long without a rewrite.11:57
RST38hThe more stuff runs asynchonously, the more problems you are gonna get11:57
ccookeRST38h: It's a decent base with nice ideas, but they've twisted it to run much faster and do more than it was designed for11:57
RST38hccooke: it actually handles the functionality part quite well11:58
RST38hccooke: it is the architectural part that shows a few deficiencies11:58
RST38h+ too many people have been adding too many member functions to too many classes11:58
ccookeRST38h: you're restating my point, yes ;-)11:58
aquatixRST38h: my uiq3/symbian 9.1 phone works rather well btw12:01
aquatixit's just stable12:01
aquatixruns for months12:01
RST38huiq3 is said to be less stable than s60, although it is designed better12:02
KotCzarnymaybe he runs only safe apps12:02
ccookeRST38h: is that a "new, but better designed" vs "old and bugfixed, but poorly designed" thing, then?12:03
RST38hUIQ: "We read Symbian design docs and built our UI extensions along the interfaces provided by Eikon"12:03
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RST38hS60: "We didn't bother with Symbian design docs, looked at Eikon, then wrote whatever was missing separately"12:03
RST38hccooke: for bugfixing, my guess is that UIQ has got a smaller user base so they do not have that many opportunities to test12:04
* RST38h wonders if S60 Touch pen interface will reuse Eikon API call or add its own =)12:05
KotCzarnyreuse eikon api and add it's own bugs12:06
RST38hEikon is more or less bugless12:06
aquatixbut replaced with uikon i read here?12:07
RST38hIt goes like this:12:07
RST38hEikon: Basic UI API provided by Symbian12:07
RST38hUikon: Additional UI API by UIQ, building on top of Eikon12:08
RST38hAvkon: Additional UI API by Nokia (S60), building mostly separately from Eikon12:08
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RST38hYou can think of Eikon as "GDK" and Uikon/Avkon as two alternative GTK-level toolkits12:09
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KotCzarnyrst38h, so again, what is symbian good for?12:12
RST38hKot: Pretty much everything Maemo is good for12:13
KotCzarnyfoss ?12:13
RST38hYou can do foss with it12:13
Stskeepsmilking cows?12:13
RST38hYou can hack it if you like, although there are far fewer holes12:13
KotCzarnyand much higher learning curve..12:14
RST38hYou can even run it on a desktop, although it will feel somewhat weird12:14
KotCzarnyemulator thing?12:14
RST38hKot: Well, once you worked with 2-3 different embedded OSes, new ones no longer surprise you in terms of learning curve12:14
RST38hKot: No, they have got native x86 version of Symbian12:15
RST38hStill looks like a "phone" but can probably be reconfigured for the whole desktop12:15
KotCzarnyweird idea12:15
KotCzarnyx86 phone probably12:15
RST38hThey made it to debug Symbian apps, like x86 Maemo thing12:16
RST38hOf course it is about as "useful" for debugging as x86 Maemo, but it IS a native x86 Symbian build12:16
KotCzarnyi haven't used x86 maemo yet12:17
KotCzarnyalthough it can be useful for valgrind type of tools12:18
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KotCzarnyanyway, time to bed, nite people12:22
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X-FadeOops ;)12:32
X-FadeTab completion rocks ;)12:33
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lcukrm_you, jott, let lardman know theres a barcode article (android unfortunately)
* lcuk runs away again12:48
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baabahow does one select the gcc version to use in sdk+?13:10
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lcukmornin robtaylor, hows your leg today and did you find  your way home ok?13:16
lcukbaaba not sure13:17
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melmothbaaba: i am not sure there is a choice.13:19
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robtaylorlcuk: yeah, straight onto M60, nice and easy13:19
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baabasdk+ claims to support 3.4.4 and 4.2.113:20
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baabaand i can even have both installed and all the binaries there etc13:21
baababut sb2 is really strange, and i can't actually run the 4.2.1 version in sb213:21
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blafaselhousetier: Hey, any complains about the c-base shirts so far? I recommend going for a different manufacturer next time.. =(13:30
housetierwhy's that?13:31
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blafaselDidn't wear it once (and never will). After the first laundry it's print is dissolving (only a little bit, but still), the print is dark now (as if the shirt lost color, looks quite ugly). The "Fabrik Berlin" or whatever label is torn as well. Sad, I planned to keep it as a "souvenir". That's why I wonder if anyone else had the same problems.13:34
housetieroh that's not good :\13:36
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lcukrobtaylor, excellent, did you have more cake then :D (and you should send me some)13:41
robtaylorlcuk: i did, i did :)13:41
lcukdamn, bbl13:44
Stskeepsjohnx_: how does google docs work in midori?13:50
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, just, fyi, I poked Mozilla about their repo.13:51
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RST38hblafasel: place it under glass!13:52
Khertan_n810Hi !13:52
johnx_Stskeeps, good question. I'll try it13:53
Stskeepsjohnx_: i have a bizarre vision of a environment which is backed by google docs or, google gears and such, so the tablet syncs its documents up with stuff like slugs, other pdas, PCs etc13:54
johnx_Stskeeps, ever heard of box.net13:54
Stskeepswhere it's an extension of your computer system at home13:54
johnx_There's a fuse implementation for it too13:54
Stskeepshmm, that's interesting13:55
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Ah, I wanted to ask the council to help ;) But I guess I can't sneak any preparations by you ;)13:55
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Stskeepsjohnx_: it needs offline capability too though13:55
johnx_Stskeeps, rsync, like you said13:55
JaffaOdd. My email to maemo-community about doesn't show up in the archives.13:56
GAN800Now everybody needs to go vote on the bug over there.13:56
JaffaDid anyone receive it via email?13:56
Stskeepsjohnx_: hmm13:57
Stskeepsjohnx_: could be interesting13:57
GAN800Jaffa, I don't see it.13:57
johnx_Stskeeps, I poked at it a little...but I really don't have much small stuff I want always synced or much access outside my house and a few hotspots13:58
johnx_a/access/internet access/g13:58
slonopotamusX-Fade, hello13:58
infobotjohnx_ meant: s/access/internet access/g13:58
X-Fadeslonopotamus: hi13:58
slonopotamusX-Fade, I was told that you will help me with broken builder1 on autobuilder.13:58
X-Fadeslonopotamus: Sure. What's the problem?13:59
slonopotamusX-Fade, i sent mail to -developers with description.13:59
slonopotamusX-Fade, in short, looks like i broke it with my upload 2 days ago.13:59
X-Fadeslonopotamus: I guess the task is stuck?14:00
slonopotamusX-Fade, I don't know, because there aren't any means to see it's status14:00
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X-Fadeslonopotamus: Ok, I'll try to find out what happened there.14:01
k-sguys, what's up with new sdk?14:01
slonopotamusX-Fade, thanks. will wait.14:02
k-smaemo-sdk-dev fails to install due maemo-application-interface-dev that fails due missing libmodest-dbus-client-dev14:02
k-sapt-cache search modest shows nothing14:02
k-s(default repositories and all, fresh new install using scripts)14:03
johnx_is there a changelog up for 2008.36-5? or did I end up getting it prematurely somehow?14:03
X-Fadeslonopotamus: I asked Ed, he manages the actual builders. Will keep you informed.14:04
GAN800Did they push?14:04
johnx_GAN800, well I'm not in red pill and it seems to be downloading14:04
johnx_GAN800, think I should cancel it?14:04
zapX-Fade: hi! can I ask something about autobuilder as well? :)14:04
GAN800johnx_, refreshing.14:04
GAN800and, oh man, who called it? :P14:04
slonopotamusX-Fade, ok.14:05
X-Fadezap: sure.14:05
lcukoh no, quick everyone - back to berlin to be reissued with shirts!!!14:06
Stskeepsjohnx_: well i have stuff like xournal notes and such, and rss feeds are also nice to take on the go :P14:06
GAN800Ugh . . . broken ass xulrunner.14:07
johnx_Stskeeps, syncing quicknote to something on my desktop automagically would be nice I guess14:07
zapX-Fade: ah, surprise, seems that my bug in bugzilla was finally noticed :) sorry for noise, will check it now14:07
X-Fadek-s: Yes, work is going on at the moment. Please wait a bit ;)14:07
k-sX-Fade: is it a problem or just temp?14:07
X-Fadek-s: Update.14:08
k-sah, ok14:08
johnx_GAN800, also of note, software update doesn't leave the tablet unbootable even if it's interrupted in the middle14:08
k-sX-Fade: thanks!14:08
k-sgotta run14:08
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RST38hjohnx: That was a bold statement =)14:08
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johnx_RST38h, I'm in the process of verifying it. If you'd like to disprove me, give it a shot14:09
X-FadeYes, there is an SSU released now.14:09
RST38hjohnx: given all the little places where it can go wrong....14:09
GAN800Removing xulrunner ... dpkg - warning: while removing xulrunner, directory `/usr/local' not empty so not removed.14:09
* RST38h kisses XFade on the cheek14:09
johnx_GAN800, that's not necessarily a bad thing14:10
RST38hGAN: No removing /usr/local is ok14:10
_julian__does someone know if the lightmediascanner project is still active? - I just tried to get a git snapshot, but gen an error that the host closed connection unexpectedly14:10
johnx_GAN800, errr...actually, no it's not a good thing14:10
GAN800johnx_, why is the remove script trying to remove that?14:10
RST38hGAN: Would be more trouble if it DID remove /usr/local =)14:10
johnx_GAN800, because it was told to make that if it didn't exist14:10
RST38hRemove script does not make any distinction between directories14:11
RST38hXFade: Is there a changelog?14:11
Stskeepsjohnx_: i had a rsync going for pdfs from xournal that puts it automatically into my onenote14:11
X-FadeRST38h: I don't know. I just refreshed my Application Manager ;)14:12
X-FadeRST38h: I don't work at Nokia and didn't know about it either ;)14:12
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GAN800RST38h, is that a real question? :P14:12
RST38hAll right, time to hunt for the changelog!14:12
RST38hGAN: Changelog one? Yes. I am 7 hours away from getting home to my tablet14:12
GAN800Have there EVER been real changelogs?14:13
johnx_GAN800, from 4.0 to 4.1 there was a handy version chart14:13
JaffaX-Fade: are you aware of any problem with the mailing lists at the moment?14:13
johnx_then you could go to an updated package and look at it's specific changelog14:13
X-FadeFYI: The mailinglists are down :(14:13
GAN800That's no changelog.14:13
X-FadeJaffa: ;)14:14
JaffaX-Fade: ta. Losing email or will it catchup?14:14
X-FadeWe are changing some DNS entries and it now points wrong.14:14
X-FadeJaffa: Will probably catch up. But delayed.14:14
JaffaAh, makes sense.14:15
GeneralAntillesIt's always so odd who spots these things first on itT.14:15
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jottso anyone updated yet without breaking the device? :)14:16
Stskeepsanyone know the differences? :P14:16
johnx_jott, check. even with an "accidental" reboot in the middle :)14:16
GeneralAntillesHrm, I think timeless's flash patch conflicts.14:16
jott"Stability improvements in Browser, Email and Connectivity" :)14:16
GeneralAntillesjott, sounds like 30-2. <_<14:16
GeneralAntillesGuess the first round didn't stick. *g*14:17
crashanddie_MARDI LEAVE14:17
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, of course.14:17
* Jaffa noticed a flurry of browser fixes in Bugzilla last night when trying to determine the content for his mockup14:17
GeneralAntillesLooks like "giving Nokia a chance to do it right" didn't work out for this round. :P14:18
jottwell let's see what happens ...14:18
johnx_GeneralAntilles, sounds like the changelog for every browser and email client and network manager I've seen14:18
jottoh conflict.14:18
RST38hJaffa: You mean, all those fixes have been pushed into SSU without testing? =)14:18
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: This update was probably planned a long time ago ;)14:18
Stskeepsinitfs? not again..14:18
RST38hfilemanager fixes are good14:19
johnx_Stskeeps, yeah, just lost mine14:19
GeneralAntillesMicroB stuff14:19
Stskeepsjohnx_: re-install bootmenu (my patches), and items go back into place14:19
Stskeepsjust through the icon14:19
* jott goes back updating with apt-get not with broken application crap manager14:19
GeneralAntillesModest stuff, RSS stuff, kernel, icd214:19
RST38hNone of my bugs have been fixed though...14:19
johnx_jott, worked fine this time. don't dist-upgrade if you use apt :)14:19
RST38hAlthough I hope somebody fixed them inderectly14:19
RST38hindirectly, sorry14:19
jottjohnx_: dist-upgrade never worked :)14:20
johnx_jott, works if you have no repositories :D14:20
jottjohnx_: hah14:20
jottyeah, anyway. i should actually remove application manager to not get tempted to to anything with it ;)14:20
jottto do14:20
GeneralAntillesLet's see if nokia-repository doesn't fuck up Extras this time around14:21
* Stskeeps wonders if he should upgrade to diablo :P14:21
GeneralAntillesotherwise I'm going on a murdering spree at Nokia.14:21
johnx_jott, you'll have to remove osso-software-version then14:21
thuxjohnx_: is there a way copy all network settings from diablo to chroot debian?14:21
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jottjohnx_: i use the -unlocked. that seems to get updated.14:21
GeneralAntillesWARNING, apt-get upgrading without o-s-v installed is likely to drop you into a reboot loop.14:21
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johnx_jott, that depends on some version of app manager14:21
jottah ok. yeah for removing it14:21
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johnx_GeneralAntilles, doesn't matter if it's installed or not. it wanted to remove busybox for me14:22
jottmaybe just delete the files ;P14:22
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GeneralAntillesjohnx_, don't leave the SDK repository on device.14:22
johnx_GeneralAntilles, lulz...extras gets disabled14:22
GeneralAntillesjohnx_, seriously?14:22
* Stskeeps hands GeneralAntilles ammo14:22
X-FadeIt always does that :(14:23
johnx_not sdk repo or extras-devel14:23
* GeneralAntilles shakes his head.14:23
johnx_just extras14:23
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GeneralAntillesWhere's konttori and m-vo and their heads for me to take off when I need them?14:23
X-FadeYes, _only_ extras.14:23
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johnx_not my "chinook extras" or any of the other random entries...just the official one14:23
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johnx_GeneralAntilles, test it on a clean tablet before you do anything. I wouldn't want to start a witch hunt ... if I'm wrong14:23
thuxjohnx_: will something like cp /etc/network/interfaces /media/mmc1/network/interfaces work?14:23
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johnx_thux, maemo doesn't store settings there14:24
johnx_so, no14:24
RST38hKilling spree? You should use Nokia's wireless camera to document it!14:24
Stskeeps"murder recorded with internet tablet"14:24
thuxnon-standard maemo14:24
johnx_thux, it would require a script to drag the settings out of gconf and put them in the right place in debian...14:24
RST38hOf course there is no need to buy the cameras, you can pick them on the way as trophies14:24
Stskeepsthat'd be a "where's your tablet today?" photo.. "next to the dead body of a nokia developer for disabling extras"14:25
X-FadeArgh, and the SSU enables the banner on the desktop ;)14:25
johnx_X-Fade, did it disable your extras too? or did I somehow do that to myself?14:25
JaffaThere's a bug :)14:25
* johnx_ sees no banner14:25
X-Fadejohnx_: Nope, mine is disabled too.14:25
GeneralAntillesOh man.14:26
johnx_ok, commence witch hunt14:26
X-Fadejohnx_: It did that with the other SSU too.14:26
* lcuk hides14:26
melmothi have a strange feeling of deja vu14:26
johnx_X-Fade, I know....I figured there was no way they'd do it twice14:26
X-Fadejohnx_: I guess the script didn't get updated ;)14:26
johnx_X-Fade, and I have a wonky repo setup for testing things. It's not inconceivable that I had to disable it and forgot...but if it happened to you too...14:27
jottbleh i hate that the update stops icd...14:27
GeneralAntillesjott, yeah, can be problem inducing.14:27
Stskeepsjott: network-manager upgrades on debian is just as annoying14:27
Stskeeps(cutting ssh)14:27
jottGeneralAntilles: yeah last time it worked for me though :)14:27
jottit continued in the background without terminal attached14:28
* Jaffa goes to get lunch whilst it updates14:28
jottnow i started it in a screen session :)14:28
GeneralAntillesAlright, maemo Extras free non-free14:28
jottas i was prepared for this happening again ;)14:28
jottStskeeps: network-manager is a big pile of crap anyway :/14:29
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GeneralAntillesSooooo, who wants to go update all the wikis? :P14:29
Anunakinhi all!14:29
GeneralAntillesandre___, poke.14:30
GeneralAntilles4.1.2 -> Bugzilla14:30
Stskeepsjott: agreed, but with some patches it can be more useful :P14:31
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jottStskeeps: you can't patch the messy code. you would need a rewrite to make it sane.14:31
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andre___GeneralAntilles, did I miss an update? :)14:31
GeneralAntillesandre___, about 30 minutes ago.14:31
thuxwhy they use Gconf to store network settings?14:31
andre___haha. great tracking, congrats :)14:31
Stskeepsjott: i'd love something else than NM, but the other managers are .. crap14:32
jottStskeeps: at least last time i looked at it i vomited in my mouth :P14:32
jottStskeeps: yeah. unfortunately it's the only "working" solution atm.14:32
johnx_thux, what would you use?14:32
thuxsame way than all debians14:33
johnx_thux, network manager uses gconf14:33
johnx_thux, and /etc/network/interfaces only supports one ssid per wireless interface14:33
thuxi have used wpa conf directly14:34
jotthm how the app-manager actually reacts on changed files in /etc ?14:34
johnx_thux, ah, with the config in /etc/wpa_supplicant.conf ?14:34
jottjust made me think as just apt-get shows the "==> Modified" message14:34
thuxjohnx_: yes14:35
johnx_thux, can you add networks as a user through a GUI?14:35
thuxhaven't tried ever14:35
thuxbut usually avoid guis14:35
Stskeepsjohnx_: , interesting article14:35
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jotthah my "extras" is still enabled :)14:38
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* Jaffa 's upgrade has: reneabled the "OS2008" tableteer web shortcut applet, re-enabled quick contacts and - of course - disabled extras.14:39
jottyeah my desktop also got spam14:40
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jottwell extras was left untouched :)14:40
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, the mailing lists being down has at least one positive side-effect. ;)14:40
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: What? Productivity? :)14:41
GeneralAntillesPeople will have to take their idiotic "zOmG nokia broke mah tabletzzz" threads elsewhere. :D14:42
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GeneralAntillesI really wish it wouldn't insist on downloading 30MB of PDFs with every update.14:43
X-FadeHeh, indeed.14:44
johnx_I didn't even notice14:45
puslingwhere does one buy a n810 currently?14:45
GeneralAntillesPretty much anywhere?14:45
johnx_pusling, what country are you in?14:45
puslingjohnx_: denmark14:45
lcukpusling, get on your pushbike and ride to finland and invade nokia hq demanding a nice shiny new n810 :)14:46
_julian__where are the latest os2008 images for n800?14:46
lcuk(obviously for cash or other incentives)14:46
GeneralAntillesHrm, no additional desktop applets here.14:46
johnx__julian__, the latest image is 2008.2314:46
* Jaffa loves it when igor & ragnar get into a debate on ITT :)14:47
_julian__johnx_: where can I grab that?14:47
RST38hGAN: iTT?14:47
GeneralAntillesjohnx_, ooh, really, where?14:47
puslinglcuk: I got one that way, but I need a few more ;)14:47
johnx_GeneralAntilles, uhm, what?14:47
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Jaffa, ooh, really, where?14:47
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johnx_GeneralAntilles, tab abuse!14:48
JaffaGeneralAntilles: #24 on
GeneralAntillesragnar says odd things sometimes.14:49
GeneralAntillesOh, right.14:50
GeneralAntillesNo wonder I don't see new applets and it's whining at me about an update I already installed.14:50
GeneralAntillesStupid initfs flash.14:50
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puslingGeneralAntilles: even on they dispatch n810 within 1-2 months ...15:13
GeneralAntillesBrowser branding was updated.15:14
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X-Fadepusling: Expansys is a bit better:
X-FadeBut still backorderd.15:16
* andre___ sees GeneralAntilles verifying all of his bug reports now ;-)15:16
RST38hstill no changelog?15:18
andre___no changelog - see the last thread on the mailing lists15:18
johnx_RST38h, I can make one up for you. interested?15:18
andre___but let me correctly tag the Target Milestones of the public bugs so you can see part of what has been fixed15:19
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RST38hjohnx:Yep, except if you post it to itt more people will be able to make use of it =)15:19
johnx_RST38h, the new 2008.36-5 SSU adds crisp lettuce. The mild cheddar of the older 30-2 release is replaced with zesty pepper-jack cheese.15:19
johnx_there, made it up15:19
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RST38hnah, such a changelog I can generate myself! =)15:20
johnx_jeez, then why did you ask me to do it?15:20
RST38hyou volunteered =)15:21
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RST38hMotorola Building a Huge Development Team for Android, With 350 Humanoids15:22
zapGiant Humanoid Robots15:22
RST38hWith Baseball bats15:22
johnx_RST38h, I guess people will dev for android if you pay them, huh?15:23
RST38hjohnx: Well, same is true for Maemo, so I wouldn't ironize about it...15:23
johnx_has anyone released a commercial app for maemo?15:23
RST38hThis is more about Motorola's search for direction than about Android though15:24
RST38hjohnx: Nokia.15:24
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RST38hAnd it also pays lots of people to develop for it =)15:24
Jaffajohnx_: DejaPim was one; there was another game type one for the 770 IIRC; the restaurant survey people are using them commercially, even though it's not a commercial app per se15:25
johnx_actually I guess there's a few15:25
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johnx_skype, gizmo, boingo, and "maps"15:25
RST38hjohnx: Do not forget MicroB, Modest, and other builtin apps15:26
JaffaMostly service-oriented15:26
X-FadeGo to the tableteer page to see a list.15:26
RST38hjohnx: Nokia is paying to develop and maintain them15:26
GeneralAntillesjohnx_, that'd be "Map"15:26
johnx_GeneralAntilles, ah, just one?15:26
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GeneralAntillesReally ridiculously sad name.15:26
johnx_GeneralAntilles, I wish they'd make it bigger, so it covered more of the world15:26
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GeneralAntillesI hate updating all these damn wiki pages with new versions.15:27
JaffaMade a rod for your own back, there15:28
RST38hHow about not mentioning the current version in the wiki?15:28
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JaffaThings like wikipedia do need to15:29
GeneralAntillesRST38h, and not conforming to 99% of the rest of the software/computing articles?15:29
GeneralAntillesOr not ever having an up-to-date release history table.15:29
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RST38hGAN: Well you can get sneaky about it15:32
RST38hGAN: Like say "latest version" and enclose it into <A HREF> to the latest version announcement15:33
RST38hOr maybe a link to a single wiki article that always describes the latest version15:33
GeneralAntillesYeah, no.15:34
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Mekcreate a Template:LatestVersion page or something, and then just use {{LatestVersion}} in the actual pages?15:35
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johnx_hi lopz15:35
GeneralAntillesMicroB, Modest, Maemo (infobox and table), then the Maemo Wiki.15:36
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NaviGeneralAntilles: lamer15:37
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X-FadeDoes anybody know a claws-mail developer?15:40
hrwX-Fade: developer or 'maemo maintainer'?15:42
* jott wonders how long it will take to get the new kernel sources15:42
NaviAs far as I know, there's only one claws developer15:43
JaffaIt's surprising that GeneralAntilles gets heat for doing the right & comprehensive thing.15:43
X-Fadehrw: I'm trying to get rid of some external repsitories. And claws is one of them ;)15:43
GeneralAntillesjott, they'll be released when the next new version is out. ;)15:44
NaviX-Fade: Isn't Paul also the one that maintains the claws-mail for maemo repo?15:44
NaviX-Fade: his email's on the site15:44
Navithe claws-mail site, I mean15:45
X-FadeNavi: I contacted J.L Biord already. He has the garage project for it too.15:45
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jottGeneralAntilles: especially as the changelog is funny as usual.15:45
jott  * Updated kernel version 2.6.21-200835maemo115:45
jottwhat a change.15:46
GeneralAntillesWell, not an _entirely_ invalid changelog for the package used to pull in the kernel.15:46
JaffaAnyone run the changelog summary scripts from last time?15:46
GeneralAntillesThat's not _exactly_ the kernel itself.15:46
jottheh yeah indeed15:46
GeneralAntillesJaffa, not so far.15:46
jottotoh it contains the kernel image :/15:47
GeneralAntillesNokia should just give up trying, though, and just put "We updated the package to <version>" for all the changelog entries.15:47
jott"* Bumped version."15:48
RST38hIsn't it what they do?15:48
hrwX-Fade: so you do not want developer but 'maemo maintainer''15:48
NaviI asked that earlier15:48
NaviAre they not the same people?15:48
GeneralAntillesRST38h, for the most part, but there are a few holdouts. ;)15:48
* RST38h finds it insensitive of people to talk about the latest Diablo update when he still has 5 hours until getting home =)15:49
mikkov_X-Fade: isn't claws in extras?15:49
GeneralAntilleshrw, he wants whatever person's in charge of the Maemo repository for Claws.15:49
X-Fadehrw: Yeah, but I guess i already found out..15:49
RST38hGAN: BTW, this stuff can probably be generated automatically from their deb metadata15:49
X-Fademikkov_: Yes, but they also have their own. Old/outdated repo.15:49
jottRST38h: you can start to rant right now, makes it less painful when you are home :)15:49
X-Fademikkov_: And I want to get it removed, so we can get the number of repositories down.15:49
RST38hjott: No! I will maintain the appearance of fairness whatever it takes! =)15:50
mikkov_X-Fade: you mean from the gronmayer?15:51
X-Fademikkov_: Well, the actual repo too ;)15:51
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, has ferenc even had 5 minutes of extra time to put towards
GeneralAntillesLikely a similar thing to or
GeneralAntillesExcept with less suck.15:52
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: I don't know. It is still on the todo, I guess.15:52
GeneralAntillesI think something like that could go a ways towards pushing people away from crap repositories.15:52
RST38hGAN: is it something that can make use of PackRat?15:53
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GeneralAntillesgronmayer is the only option otherwise and it's just a gateway to crap repos.15:53
jottRST38h: yeah just packrat without 3rd party repos :)15:53
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Well that is a symptom, I want to kill it at the root too ;)15:54
RST38hjott: Packrat doesn't really care - it will scan whatever you feed to it15:54
GeneralAntillesHell, maybe just pick up PackRat and move it to a domain?15:54
jottRST38h: sure.15:54
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jottRST38h: just saying to make it "clean".15:54
Navigronmayer is a gateway drug15:54
Naviso dirty15:54
X-FadeWell packages has the nice advantage of showing dependencies and sources etc.15:54
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, right, killing the pushers is the real solution, but preventing people from becoming users also helps. ;)15:54
slonopotamusX-Fade, any progress?15:54
RST38hjott: To be fair, I get repo lists off gronmayer =)15:54
JaffaYeah, surely the source for that is open; given it's debian15:55
jottubuntu uses it too..15:55
X-Fadeslonopotamus: Our mail was down due to dns change. I've not forgotten it yet ;)15:55
hrw  X-Fade as long as packages are sane15:55 is kinda difficult to use from the tablet though15:55
hrwI tried to do something with 770/os2006 few days ago. python2.4/2.5 fights each other etc15:56
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GeneralAntilles"We were also a little annoyed by the constant come-ons for accessories and plug-ins -- plugging in the charger pops up an ad for a dock, for example"16:02
GeneralAntillesThat's awesome.16:02
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johnx_GeneralAntilles, what system is this?16:03
GeneralAntillesI'm filing a feature request for Nokia to include a link for buying carbon footprint offset credits with their hip "Unplug the charger" warning.16:03
GeneralAntillesArchos 516:03
johnx_oh gad. it actually charges *faster* with the dock?16:03
RST38hZee French! Zee Eevil French!16:03
GeneralAntillesArchos is complete and total fail.16:04
RST38hBTW, does it have a SCART connector?16:04
X-Fadeslonopotamus: Ok, I killed the task. Let's see what happens on the next build.16:05
X-Fadeslonopotamus: Logs can be found here:
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jottfyi: extracted changelog.gz of the new packages.16:08
slonopotamusX-Fade, do I need to reupload? (actually I've already reuploaded after it hang but it didn't restart on another builder)16:09
jott(not filtering older entries just a bash oneliner :)16:09
RST38hthanks jott16:09
slonopotamusX-Fade, btw, that package successfully built on my n80016:09
X-Fadeslonopotamus: No need to reupload as you already did that.16:09
jottso check dates for when the actual change happened16:09
X-Fadeslonopotamus: Build is already running again. Let's see what happens ;)16:09
slonopotamusX-Fade, ok16:09
johnx_jott, thanks!16:09
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GeneralAntillesjott, you should send that one-liner to Nokia as a patch for their changelog process. ;)16:10
RST38hGAN: See? We now have a proper changelog!16:10
RST38hOf course, some folding using javascript would help, but it is ok this way too16:11
GeneralAntillesWait until you see the entries in it.16:11
RST38hFixed launch thumb kb from rocker logical id.16:11
RST38hWho is the rocker?16:11
* johnx_ is a rocker!16:11
* johnx_ rocks out16:12
GeneralAntilles"do not mark as expunged those messages that could not be retrieved due to the user canceled the request"16:12
slonopotamusX-Fade, cool, it failed16:12
RST38hgood one16:12
slonopotamusX-Fade, woops, it's previos failure16:12
X-Fadeslonopotamus: Yeah, that was my kill ;)16:12
RST38hhave they fixed failures to start modest when clicking on a message title (from the left-bottom corner notifier)?16:13
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X-Fadeslonopotamus: But you see in the logs that it got stuck somewhere in the tests.16:13
slonopotamusX-Fade, where I can see that?16:13
slonopotamustests are pretty long16:13
slonopotamusX-Fade, expecially 'logging' ones16:13
jottfor i in $(ls *.deb); do  mkdir tmp ;  dpkg-deb -x $i tmp/ ; echo "****************** $i ******************" >> diablo-36.changes  ;  zcat $(find tmp/ -name changelog.gz)>> diablo-36.changes ; rm -rf tmp/ ; done16:13
slonopotamusX-Fade, 40416:14
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X-Fadeslonopotamus: Ah, new build is running ;)16:14
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X-Fadeslonopotamus: Last line was: Running logging tests (15:44:00)16:14
slonopotamusX-Fade, half an hour on n800.16:14
slonopotamusX-Fade, logging tests i mean16:15
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X-Fadeslonopotamus: Line before that: Running locking tests (15:00:54)16:15
slonopotamusX-Fade, builder1 should be faster, uh?16:15
X-Fadeslonopotamus: So locking already took 44 minutes ;)16:15
slonopotamusX-Fade, half an hour for logging tests to complete.16:15
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jottah i missed some files.16:16
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jottok now it should be more complete:
Jaffajott: ta16:21
Mekhmm... fun.. the post-commit hook that was supposed to update my site failed with some weird permission denied errors...16:22
JaffaI thought "Fixed: NB#82614" was bad, but "Fixes:" is worse.16:22
jottgrep -c NB diablo-36.changes16:22
jottfunny fact: ^^ :)16:22
RST38hosso-connectivity-ui appears twice in the log16:23
X-FadeMek: did you create the svn recently?16:23
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MekX-Fade: no, it worked a few minutes earlier just fine...16:23
Mekah, and now it works fine again too...16:23
RST38hor maybe even three times16:24
jottRST38h: hmm yeah probably a split-build always with the same changelog file.16:24
RST38h* Implementation and implementing16:25
jott(as in "osso-connectivity-ui" source package actually creates 3 packages)16:25
RST38h* Lots of coding happened16:25
RST38hjott: oh16:25
RST38hAnd you are complaining about the NB change lines16:25
jottit's just a bash oneline without any parsing :)16:25
RST38hjott: this is just asking for a perl script which prints in html =)16:26
jottgo ahead.16:26
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X-FadeAnd adds a date filter since the last release ;)16:26
RST38hjott: Can I have your one-lier as a starter please?16:27
benno2hi, any cx3110x wlan driver developer here ?16:27
jottshould reduce file size quite a bit :)16:27
jottRST38h: for i in $(ls *.deb); do  mkdir tmp ;  dpkg-deb -x $i tmp/ ; echo "****************** $i ******************" >> diablo-36.changes  ;  zcat $(find tmp/ -name ?hangelog*.gz)>> diablo-36.changes ; rm -rf tmp/ ; done16:27
GAN800benno2, there's a list on its garage product.16:28
X-Fadebenno2: And try this one:
GAN800mailing list, that is.16:28
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JaffaRST38h/jott: if you update it, group them together by section and provide an index at the top16:28
benno2X-Fade: thanks. but whats the difference between the cx3110x project and the stlc-45xx project ?16:28
slonopotamusX-Fade, everything is bad again? any plans to allow seeing build progress?16:28
RST38hJaffa: I will write a PERL script16:28
JaffaMaybe as a tag cloud, if you're feeling flush ;-)16:28
RST38hJaffa: But *only* if you promise it will get used16:29
X-Fadeslonopotamus: It is still running?16:29
jotti will use it :)16:29
* RST38h won't do job nobody needs =)16:29
* Jaffa will too, I'll update it if it's a good starting point, too16:29
slonopotamusX-Fade, looks like yes.16:29
jottRST38h: this assume a directory with (only) the new "deb" files in it btw.16:30
X-Fadeslonopotamus: You can see progress here:
slonopotamusX-Fade, however I can't see build log (because it will only be available upon completion)16:30
X-Fadeslonopotamus: If there is any..16:30
slonopotamusX-Fade, there isn't any build log16:31
jottRST38h: i guess parsing/diffing the different osso-software-version releases would be a good way.16:31
jottRST38h: so you would get a reference version plus all package names without big hacks.16:31
X-Fadeslonopotamus: No, it only syncs after parts of the build. armel/i386 .16:31
RST38hlemme start with your approach...16:31
lbthi - quick question... Is Fremantle source available anywhere yet?16:32
jottlbt: "November" probably16:32
X-Fadelbt: No, alpha sdk is expected in november/december.16:32
lbtOK. I have a bug that says it'll be fixed in Fremantle16:32
X-Fadelbt: Altough some things might already be on stage.16:33
lbtso I want to keep it open until I see Fremantle alpha/beta and verify it's OK16:33
slonopotamusX-Fade, yes. that's why I say that I can't see progress.16:33
lbtmultiboot support16:33
GAN800lbt, no.16:34
lbt(or at least not breakage)16:34
GAN800lbt, it's actually entirely invalid for Fremantle. :p16:34
lbtGAN800: ?16:34
X-Fadeslonopotamus: Me neither. I will file an enhancement request.16:34
GAN800as initfs is going out the door.16:34
lbtI just feel that if it's open then I should be able to see the work so far...16:35
GAN800There really isn't any.16:35
lbtlike debian experimental (or sardine?)16:35
RST38hWill dpkg --info print the changes without unpacking the package?16:35
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lbtI know - this is an example of where such a thing would be good.16:36
GAN800lbt, you'll see it when there's something to see.16:36
GAN800i.e., November.16:36
lbtOTOH, there's clearly something there16:36
GAN800There's nothing Fremantle to see yet.16:36
X-Fadeandre___: ping?16:36
jottRST38h: i think the changelog is not really part of the dpkg metadata.16:36
lbtso what is Eero talking about?16:37
johnx_at this point I doubt fremantle is running as a standalone system16:37
RST38htoo bad16:37
jottbut there still might be a better way than mine.16:37
* RST38h does not want to unpack .debs16:37
andre___X-Fade, pong16:37
lbthas he accpepted multi-boot as a requirement?16:37
GAN800At this point they don't even have prototype hardware.16:37
johnx_lbt, no more initfs in fremantle. the decision was made but the implementation isn't done16:37
jottRST38h: dpkg has quite extensive perl bindings/functions. maybe something is in there.16:37
X-Fadeandre___: Can you add a component Stage to product Website? And set Marcell as owner?16:37
johnx_multiboot will work differently, but more than that no one knows16:38
andre___X-Fade, sure :)16:38
johnx_(or so I surmise)16:38
GAN800lbt, if it's still an issue when we have something concrete, then open a new bug.16:38
lbtso, my feeling is, that until the 'bug' is show resolved, it's still relevant... ?16:38
X-Fadeandre___: So I can file a bug against the old logo on stage ;)16:38
andre___X-Fade, if you provide a description for that component...16:38
lbtGAN800: that seems a bit late16:38
GAN800If the bug mentions initfs it's WONTFIC;16:38
jottRST38h: otoh the unpacking took like 3 seconds for all packages...16:38
JaffaThe UI consistency bug has been left open until the code fwhich fixes it is committed and/or the beta is shipped16:39
lbtit's a bug in this release - I want it fixed for the next release16:39
johnx_lbt, they won't fix it in diablo/maemo4 and it's invalid for fremantle/maemo516:39
lbt"we're doing it differently - if we don't fix it --- tell us then"16:39
GAN800it's like a bug on osso-email.16:39
johnx_lbt, yes, exactly16:39
X-Fadeandre___: Public Maemo svn repository web viewer ?16:40
lbtjohnx_: it's a bug in diablo - diablo won't multiboot16:40
lbtso fix it for freemantle16:40
johnx_lbt, and they said WONTFIX16:40
GAN800and it aint gonna be fixed for Diablo.16:40
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X-Fadeandre___: Or how would you describe this?
johnx_lbt, and for fremantle they won't have initfs16:40
lbtnot "see if we've fixed it and complain if we ain't"16:40
GAN800There's no point putting a lot of extra work in a dead architecture.16:40
lbtI agree it's more a requirement16:40
andre___X-Fade, done16:40
johnx_GAN800, that can be taken many ways :)16:41
lbtI'm trying to be proactively positive BTW16:41
johnx_lbt, so open a wishlist, "some type of multiboot in fremantle"16:41
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GAN800lbt, then open a new bug16:41
lbtthat's a good idea16:41
lbtsure - that's why I was asking16:41
lbtwhat's the sensible way to address this issue for fremantle :)16:42
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lbtnot a random wishlist posting to irc or the wiki :) A followon from a reported bug in Diablo.16:42
GAN800See what happens with the alpha sdk and get with the devs.16:42
johnx_lbt, right, open a bug as an "enhancement request" I would assume16:42
johnx_though I wonder if multiboot will be handled differently on OMAP3 than OMAP216:43
GAN800Not really.16:44
GAN800The new boot architecture is the issue.16:44
GAN800Not the SoC16:44
lbtand GAN - you are right to say 'architecture' - and that's not something a 'bug' should change.16:45
lbtthat's a fundamental use case16:45
johnx_GAN800, I was under the impression that OMAP3 could boot SD cards directly from an onboard PROM16:45
johnx_but there's millions of ways to setup a bootloader chain...16:45
JaffaInteresting: osso-connectivity-ui (1.4.23): "Updated to conform UI specifications v2.0"16:45
GAN800as should OMAP216:45
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johnx_Jaffa, ah, the famous "UI spec" returns :D16:46
RST38hwhat's famous about it?16:46
JaffaNo immediate differences in "Connectivity Settings"16:46
RST38hIt's probably another name for the style guide16:46
GAN800RST38h, nice rock you're under.16:46
johnx_RST38h, there's some internal Nokia "UI spec" referenced a lot, and no one outside has seen it16:46
RST38hprolly a plain style guide16:48
RST38hdunno why you are so excited about it16:48
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RST38hgimme omap2 docs and keep that ui spec to yourself =)16:48
johnx_RST38h, well a couple of bugs were closed with a message like "We're just following the UI spec"16:49
lbtOK another thought - should an N800 with fremantle be able to boot to Diablo ?16:50
RST38hjohnx: That is an euphemism to "don't bother us with your insignificant bugs"\16:50
lbtSo I as a developer can develop for older platforms?16:50
johnx_lbt, that's another "no one knows, maybe"16:50
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Mekwill fremantle even be able to run an an N800? :)16:50
johnx_"no one knows, probably to some degree"16:51
jottnot until someone makes clutter run on it without being abysmal slow16:51
johnx_clutter won't be under the whole UI16:51
jottwell but for desktop etc.16:52
Mekand fremantle is more than just the UI...16:52
johnx_probably just the launcher or home screen and some fancy photo / media app16:52
jottso most likely some interdependencies...16:52
lbtSo I suppose the question is "when is end-of-support for the N8x0?"16:52
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jottlike gtk offscreen renderer to get widgets as clutter actors, etc.16:53
johnx_lbt, "no one knows, probably before or after fremantle"16:53
lbt:) just wondering....16:53
gimbalhey all, anyone know what happened to ?16:53
johnx_lbt, lots of people are, but there are no answers16:53
lbtAh, deblet, our saviour....16:53
johnx_my solution is to not hold my breath waiting...16:53
jottwell for now i would say there are no real resources put into it...16:53
infoboti guess flashing is
gimbalhaving to dig it up fromj now16:53
gimbalok danke16:54
lbtI just got an email about this bug and it prompted me to do my 'constructive reposnse' bit...16:54
gimbalmaybe someone should tell heheh16:54
jottand they don't want to make everyone yell and rant right now... so say something indifferent..16:54
Jaffajott: problem with your changelog is, of course, it doesn't stop at the last release ;-)16:55
jottJaffa: yeah sure.16:55
lbtmultiboot on fremantle bug :
jottRST38h works on it :)16:55
jottJaffa: but you can see it based on the dates.16:55
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gnutonHey jott! :)16:58
jotthey gnuton16:58
RST38hI have got the first version of a script16:59
Mekhey gnuton :)16:59
RST38hAnyone wants to verify that it works? (I have no debs here and no dpkg-deb: it is a FreeBSD machine)16:59
gimbalN8x0 is teh r0x0rz ; pardon the spam - turret's syndrome, right..17:00
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jottRST38h: hah. you can use "ar" to extract :)17:00
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jottbut i can run it here to test it.17:00
RST38hjott: email? (msg)17:00
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Jaffajott: not definitively, because you don't know what might have been on a branch when the previous release was made17:01
gimbalhax0rz with linux in teh p0ketz... ok, that'll be the last of that, I promise >^)17:01
RST38hjott: rockets away17:01
Mekgnuton: on the current qt4 garagae site it is impossible to click on the Screenshots link in FF3, as the Qt logo completely covers it... (even though it is transparant)17:02
jottRST38h: does not work. perl does not support $() :)17:03
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jott`` should do it i guess17:03
JaffaGeneralAntilles: Great to see your perfectly valid complaint about bug fixes was taken into account in the modest changelog</sarcasm> 2008-08-27: "* Fixes: NB#86199, NB#86112, NB#86137, NB#86176, NB#86637, NB#8725717:04
RST38hjott: OK17:04
RST38hjott: could you test it?17:04
GAN800Jaffa, what, you expected anything else?17:04
gnutonHello Mek! :)17:04
jottyeah seems to work with backticks (and using zcat instead of fbsd gzcat :)17:04
RST38hJaffa: You should sacrifice a few more iPhone users to the Great Green One17:04
JaffaWhat'd be *really* cool in a changelog generator, given the mess Nokians make of writing useful entries is querying Bugzilla for NB#\d+ in the alias field and seeing if it can be made a hyperlink into the open bugzilla issue17:04
RST38hJaffa: And He will teach Nokia how to file changelogs17:05
gnutonMek: are you aggregated your blog in maemo planet??17:05
RST38hjott: hey, gzcat should be universal =)17:05
RST38hjott: Are you sure you do not have it?17:05
Mekgnuton: I am17:05
gimbalhey, next time Space Ship One flys, someone should pay the pilot to take an N8x0 with him -- "first PDA in space!" or something... not sure if anyone's already come up on that title wrt the space shuttle, iss, or mir though...17:06
gnutonMek: ok, great.. :)17:06
jottyeah. "zcat" should actually be universal but not necessarily gnu compatible :)17:06
RST38hlet us leave it at gzcat then...17:06
RST38hjust in case.17:06
jottbut i don't have gzcat :P17:07
RST38hok, zcat it is then, freebsd has both17:07
jottmaybe just use perl zlib :)17:07
X-Fadegnuton: Did you see my mail about the qt4 repository on garage?17:07
RST38hjott: naaaah17:07
* RST38h lazy17:07
gimbalhey that flashing was easy. like, thanks, maemo folks17:07
gimbalpretty screen on the diablo firstbood17:07
gimbaldig it. diablo is teh beautz17:09
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RST38hjott: sent another version, this one will try htmlizing the output a little bit (stupidly for now)17:15
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cuseHi! I need to recompile the maemo diablo kernel17:36
cusewhere do i get the respective .config file of the original compiled kernel?17:37
qwerty12make nokia_2420_defconfig17:37
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cuseqwerty12: ah, thanks a lot!17:38
qwerty12No problems :). I learnt from:
qwerty12Though I used DIABLO_ARMEL to build the kernel17:39
cuseyep, thats what im doing as well17:42
jottalthough the latest kernel source is not available yet.17:43
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cusejott: mmm ... really? you mean im compiling a kernel thats older than the one in diablo?17:44
jottRST38h: hmm yeah, one problem is, that not all changelogs are "debian"-formatted :/17:44
jottcuse: older than the one from todays SSU17:44
jottprobably only wimax changes, but still :P17:44
cusejott: actually im trying to fix a bug in the wirelesse driver of the nokia17:45
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cusejott: it hangs when leaving the access point range17:45
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jottthe stlc45xx one?17:46
RST38hjott: I am trying to find and use common patterns17:50
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cusejott: no, ... i first thought about using that one, but then i read in the README that its still full of bugs17:54
cusejott: so i try to stick with the old one17:54
qwerty12cuse, Hmm. It depends on where the problem is then. if it's in umac, it cannot be fixed but if it is in cx3100x then you can try and fix it17:55
qwerty12cx3100x source is seperate to the kernel17:55
qwerty12cx3100x (?)17:55
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cuseqwerty12: i guess its in cx311017:56
jottyeah well as qwerty12 said, you are very limited on what you can do about the cx3110 module.17:56
cuseqwerty12: yeah its separate to the kernel, but i need the kernel sources in order to be able to compile the modules17:57
jottand the stlc one really needs love :)17:57
cuse:) yeah im sure about that, but i need a working wlan driver till tomorrow :)17:57
cuseso no time to deal with new bugs17:57
qwerty12If you can't get cx3110x driver to produce module that you can actually insmod on the device, let me know17:57
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* qwerty12 had trouble with it so I grabbed fixes of the internet and put in one archive17:58
cuseqwerty12: im yet unable to compile the cx3110 module sources, im getting invalid directory error messages yet17:58
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qwerty12Oh, you just need to change KSRC in the Makefile18:01
RST38hjott: Sent you one more version18:01
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cuseqwerty12: ah yeah right that did it18:06
RST38hIn the meanwhile: New Gameboy DS to Include Camera, Music18:06
RST38h[be afraid]18:06
cuseqwerty12: a got a couple undefined symbols warnings though, not sure if thats a problem18:06
qwerty12cuse, yep. a big problem. Try insmodding it on the tablet >.<18:06
johnx_RST38h, so how's the DS emulation comiing along? :D18:06
qwerty12RST38h, I think music has been done with flashcarts before :P18:06
RST38hjohnxL not actively working on it18:06
RST38hbut not very well18:07
qwerty12I combined mamona fixes18:07
RST38hok time to go home18:07
RST38hto my belowed n810... to give her a gift of an SSU update...18:07
qwerty12cuse, You need to copy umac.ko from your tablet and put in root of the extracted folder from that archive18:07
t_s_ohmm, i see a feature upgrade...18:07
summatusmentist_s_o: what do you mean?18:08
johnx_summatusmentis, new SSU is out18:09
t_s_oos2008 feature upgrade just showed up in app manager updates. seems to be some libs missing tho (syncml among them) and a conflict with the flash player18:09
qwerty12t_s_o, if you applied the flash player versioning fix removei t18:09
qwerty12as for syncml, i'd try disabling all other repos18:10
X-FadeLol @ bug 3566 ->
summatusmentisjohnx_: oh, I thought there were new features in maemo somewhere :)18:10
summatusmentisI was all excited18:10
johnx_summatusmentis, the browser is a little faster *shrugs*18:11
qwerty12X-Fade, lol18:11
t_s_oseems that removing the flash player version fix also got rid of my problem packages... here goes...18:12
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t_s_ohmm, 33MB install. i do not have that kind of free space on the device damn it!18:12
X-Fadet_s_o: Be sure to remove the pdfs in your documents.18:13
t_s_oX-Fade: they are long gone...18:13
X-Fadet_s_o: Well, they will be back now ;)18:13
summatusmentisxohm is launching in baltimore today18:13
t_s_ohow so X-Fade?18:13
X-Fadet_s_o: They are a big part of that 33MB..18:14
t_s_owhiskey tango foxtrot...18:14
ccookeIIRC, they're user manuals. Which would need updating when there's a new OS release...18:14
jottX-Fade: actually the biggest part of it :)18:14
johnx_t_s_o, well, what if you lost your user guide? now you have it back!18:14
* qwerty12 has never read the user guide instead preferring to read bash for n00bs instead18:15
ccookeqwerty12: yeah, but you (and the rest of this channel) aren't really the people the user guide is aimed at :-)18:16
t_s_ohmm, biggest single installed item currently, that app manager is able to show, is pidgin data at 21MB, after that its map at 9,9MB...18:16
qwerty12ccooke, true :)18:16
t_s_oi got about 20MB free on the device...18:16
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ccookeuninstall pidgin, install the update, delete the pdfs, reinstall?18:16
t_s_oproblem is that i do not have pidgin installed, pidgin-data is being using by rfcomm...18:17
cuseqwerty12: now it looks much better !!! lets see if i can insmod it now18:18
jottt_s_o: just run your system from sd card - 256mb are just too small for a proper os installation :)18:18
t_s_ojott: i dont feel like doing a clone right now, just to do a damned os update...18:19
qwerty12t_s_o, dpkg -L pidgin-data and tar.bz2 any massive files and move them to memory card for the time being18:19
qwerty12cuse, cool :)18:19
qwerty12had me stumped for a long while too :/18:19
jottt_s_o: it's *in general* much more convenient not just for an os update :)18:19
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t_s_ojott: may be, but i also do not have a empty sd card to use...18:20
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t_s_oits just bothersome that app manager cant do something simple as follow the dep tree in reverse when i want to remove pidgin-data...18:21
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qwerty12apt-get ftw18:21
t_s_oindeed, nokia really needs to hand over more "control" to the community. a better app manager would have been in development within days if that was the case imo...18:22
qwerty12In all fairness to nokia, the code is available for us to do whatever with it18:23
t_s_othe app manager code?18:23
qwerty12yeah, it's in garage18:23
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t_s_oweird, apt-get wants to upgrade libpurple...18:24
jottand in the end it's just apt so you could probably even use synaptic [or what ever] (maybe 1-2 patches needed)18:24
MangoFusionwe don't need an app manger. we need an app store18:24
MangoFusionfor a nominal fee, chargeable to MangoFusion18:25
* jott prepares his "I am rich!" application18:25
X-Fadejott: I'm free is already in extras ;)18:25
jotti know :)18:25
jottbut that does not make *me* rich :P18:25
X-FadeI'm sure that one is better ;)18:25
aquatixholy handheld; is it just me or is it update day today?18:26
t_s_osure is...18:26
johnx_yup. user guide update day to be specific18:27
t_s_ohmm, should i make sure i have double the needed space available...18:27
t_s_obah, i dont care, i made a backup, here goes!18:27
X-Fadet_s_o: I upgraded with 38MB free.18:27
t_s_ofreed up about 3718:28
jotti upgraded with 400mb free :p18:28
qwerty12showoff :P18:28
jottman, where did all the space went?18:28
aquatixX-Fade: Operating System update, or just `update all'?18:28
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t_s_ojott, if you can point me to a nondestructive way of putting the os on a sd card, im game...18:28
qwerty12I'd update but I fucked up my charger again >.<18:28
infobotboot-sd is probably
jottthx :)18:29
t_s_oqwerty12: get yourself a universal nokia charger ;)18:29
MangoFusionisn't there that deb package which automagically does it?18:29
qwerty12t_s_o, yeah, lol, I swear smoke was coming out my current charger...18:29
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t_s_oqwerty12: if that was a everun note you where talking about, i would have wondered if you where steve paine ;)18:30
t_s_onothing quite stinks like releasing the magic smoke from a 900$+ palmtop ;)18:31
qwerty12~curse windows registry18:32
infobotMay the fleas of a thousand camels infest your most sensitive regions, windows registry !18:32
t_s_ohmm, those curses are becoming predictable...18:33
qwerty12~kill infobot18:33
* infobot shoots a super-inverse fluxpositrino gun at infobot18:33
aquatixthat everun looks aweful18:33
aquatixat least the keyboard does18:33
* qwerty12 needs to speed up reinstalling grub to save me from windows dementia18:34
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t_s_ook, device restart, fingers crossed...18:38
MangoFusionyikes. looks like ninja's have infiltrated my device and disabled the extras repository18:38
johnx_MangoFusion, ahaha18:39
johnx_they left you user guides in many languages as a consolation prize18:39
t_s_othe ssu keeps doing that, huh...18:39
MangoFusionand now they've snapped some covert snapshots from the camera app, they've restarted my tablet to presumably get rid of the evidence18:40
MangoFusionsneaky ninja's18:40
t_s_olooks like i could have saved myself the clean up job. it used maybe 1MB18:40
t_s_oand reactivated tableteer info and speed contacts applets...18:41
johnx_yay! some people had those disabled. this update was to fix that situation :)18:42
MangoFusionjohnx_: have you seen these ninja's before? i too seem to have been left with user guides in everything from pig latin to engrish18:42
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johnx_MangoFusion, they left me presents as well, but no tableteer button or speed contacts18:43
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MangoFusionnow i got a button and speed contacts. could this indicate something?18:43
MangoFusionmust be some ninja conspiracy at least18:45
johnx_oh definitely18:45
johnx_I think they're in league with Nokia18:45
MangoFusionfinnish ninjas? that's got to be it!18:45
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t_s_ofunny, it may be that the update of libpurple that apt-get did, removed the need for pidgin-data...18:50
t_s_osometimes this feels like being back in windows, poking at random bits to see if it "fixes" a issue...18:51
aquatixwhy does the Feature upgrade conflict with adobe-flashplayer >= 2.51-2 btw?18:52
t_s_othat was just a version "fix" done by the community...18:52
qwerty12<qwerty12> t_s_o, if you applied the flash player versioning fix removei t18:52
aquatixyeah, but it conflicts against everything higher than that version18:52
aquatixand now the feature upgrade doesn't want to install18:53
aquatixi have adobe-flashplayer 2.51-118:54
aquatixand there's an update to 2.5318:54
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t_s_ohrmf, now i cant get chat to connect to msn any more...18:56
aquatixthis sucks; i can't update because of that conflict, and it wants to install 2.53-1 itself too18:57
aquatixfrom tableteer18:57
t_s_odid you try uninstalling the existing one?18:58
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t_s_ough, i vish that chat didnt connect in "invisible mode" to check peoples status whenever i open the window18:59
aquatixif i do, it'll remove osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked too18:59
aquatixi have 2.51-1 now18:59
t_s_oah, unlocked...18:59
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aquatixthat's an issue? :)19:00
t_s_ocould be, last time i messed around with it, i got a non-bootable tablet that required a reflash...19:01
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aquatixt_s_o: maybe i should try to downgrade that package to non-unlocked?19:03
aquatixi installed the -unlocked because other packages where on hold because of strict version dependencies19:03
t_s_oi cant say if thats possible or not, out of my league19:03
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* aquatix investigates the matter on ITT19:04
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MangoFusionanyone here ever gotten SIG11 errors with qemu on the diablo sdk?19:05
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jottMangoFusion: qemu crashing is something you should get used to :P19:08
johnx_MangoFusion, yeah. Maybe try a new version of qemu19:08
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MangoFusionis there any standard way of plonking a compiler on the device itself?19:09
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aquatixsoooo, anyone tried upgrading with osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked installed?19:10
jottMangoFusion: for now, add sdk repositories, install build-essentials and remove the sdk repository again.19:10
jottaquatix: yes, seems to work here.19:10
johnx_aquatix, I had 34 unlocked. went fine19:10
jott(also with rx44)19:11
aquatixit conflicts with the adobe-flashplayer update19:11
aquatixFeature upgrade conflicts with adobe-flashplayer >= 2.51-2 while i have 2.51-1 and 2.53-1 is about to be installed from nokia19:12
* aquatix is puzzled19:12
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MangoFusionjott: looks like i have "maemo-cplusplus-device-env" in the package list. reckon i should try it?19:35
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johnx_MangoFusion, you have lots of space and you're backed up, right?19:36
MangoFusionis that just for debugging or something?19:36
jottMangoFusion: apt-cache depends tells me it's just installing a bunch of -dbg pacakges19:36
MangoFusionah ok then19:36
jottthere should be a build-essential package in the sdk repo19:37
MangoFusionlemme see if i can find the right repo19:37
jott        500 diablo/sdk/free Packages19:37
jottjust add the sdk repositories.19:38
jottand keep in mind to remove them afterwarsd19:38
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aquatixfun, i just broke my wifi19:42
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MangoFusionjott: thanks for the tip. looks like its grabbing the right packages now19:46
aquatixdamn, the next time i'll be using apt-get again :/19:49
aquatixany idea where exactly the updates are located?19:50
aquatixi found but that page shows up empty19:51
qwerty12Know the password?19:51
* aquatix wanted to download some packages, as his wifi broke with Update all19:51
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aquatixah, i'll have to look up the pw19:51
jottaquatix: hah yeah i gave app manager a 5 second chance but it failed for again for me. apt-get worked fine tough.19:52
aquatixjott: :)19:52
aquatixproblem is that my connection stuff is now semi-broken19:52
aquatixso wifi doesn't work19:52
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jottwoo! :)19:52
aquatixhalfway through my updates19:52
jottbut it should have fetched everything19:53
aquatixthe appmanager?19:53
jottoh. the app manager does not fetch all files before?!19:53
aquatixbackward piece of crap19:54
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cuseDoes anybody know if the roaming bug was fixed in the open source wlan driver?19:55
cuseWith the closed one it always closes the wlan connection when it goes out of the access point range and all net applications freeze until one manually restarts wlan19:56
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* Stskeeps goes prepare his tablet for diablo..20:01
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Khertan_n810rah recurrencies are really borring me20:08
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cuseor is it possible to write a simple shell script that restart the wlan connection?20:11
cuseits hard for me to debug this problem with the cx3110x driver20:12
cusei see in dmesg that it closes softmac, but theres no hint why it does so20:12
Stskeepsifconfig wlan0 up/down? :P20:14
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cuseStskeeps: ok, but i also have to tell it to which access point to connec to20:16
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Stskeepsyou can possibly do that with dbus stuff20:16
cuseah you mean i could access that applet on the upper screen with dbus?20:16
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Stskeepshmm, after flashing whole fiasco image, is it natural it's stuck at usb screen and screen (finished) flash bar?20:23
Stskeepsdo i need to wait or pull out usb? :P20:23
inzSts, if the flasher program says "Finished flashing", just pull out the usb20:24
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Stskeepsinz: probably forgot -b line or something20:24
inzSts, probably, yes20:24
Stskeepsyay booting20:24
MangoFusioncompiling on the device sure is... err.... fast20:30
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Stskeepsstop complaining, i once tried to compile the linux kernel on it20:30
Stskeepsget a qemu-arm or something20:30
MangoFusionare we talking daily or monthly here? ;)20:31
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MangoFusionwell the reason i am using the device itself is because i couldn't get qemu to work without barfing up20:31
* Khertan_n810 are currently completly rewriting the mCalendar database and events retriever engine20:31
StskeepsMangoFusion: could always buy a beagleboard :P20:31
aquatixis it legal to ask here for the password of ?20:32
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Stskeepsaquatix: i can describe the algorithm for you :P20:32
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aquatixi need some of the osso-connectivity packages :/20:32
aquatixStskeeps: ah, please do :)20:32
MangoFusionhmm could do. not quite a maemo expert yet though so i'd probably just get it, scream in excitement, then get nothing done at all20:32
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moontigerKhertan_n810: did they change something on the google side?20:42
* moontiger goes back to teaching20:42
Khertan_n810moontiger: about what ?20:42
Khertan_n810except some stupid repeat by day setting20:43
Khertan_n810on a month20:43
Khertan_n810like BYDAY=4FR for the fourth Friday of the month20:43
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aquatixjott: ah, thanks20:59
aquatixi found it out already though :)20:59
* aquatix copies some .deb's to microsd20:59
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* Khertan_n810 now understand more the agile methodology21:07
Stskeepscrash and burn?21:08
Khertan_n810i want to be in january !!!!21:12
Khertan_n810battlestar galactica saison 4 part 2 !21:12
* Stskeeps is setting up his tablet from fresh21:12
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Stskeepsbut indeed, the new update does make the browser a lot faster21:15
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jottStskeeps: you come from chinook, right? :)21:17
Stskeepsjott: yeah21:17
Stskeepsand a severely raped system21:17
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lcukKhertan_n810, buy a time machine from ebay21:19
Stskeepsanyone else having problem with homeuptime? :P21:20
Stskeepscan't seem to make it work21:20
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Khertan_n810a time machine ... i prefer to invest in buying piece to build my teleport machine21:21
Khertan_n810Stskeeps: nope no problem here21:21
* RST38h prefers the doomsday Weapon21:21
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* lcuk burps quietly22:04
* lcuk tosses a coin, code or relax22:05
* jaska watches it drop on side22:05
lcukso what, ive gotta be coding whilst watchin a movie with the missus?22:06
sp3000make a movie of you coding relaxedly?22:10
RST38hrelax by coding?22:10
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lcukcode up a movie :D22:10
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* lcuk tends to relax playin wiv liqbase nowadays :)22:11
RST38h$100 16GB MicroSDHC card22:12
lcuksounds expensive but is it ?22:12
RST38hMy laptop has 30GB HD. Hehe22:12
lcuk\o hey jaffffffa22:12
RST38h$100 is not particulrly expensive but I would wait until it hits $60 or so22:12
RST38hMoo, jaffa22:12
lcukive got a 1gb card in mine and i hope it will suffice22:13
lcuksketches arent very memory hungry :)22:13
lcukby the way, ive been thinking about exporting to svg, but i cant do the stamp tool thing with that, infinite recursion would be lost :(22:13
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RST38hreplace stamps with rectangles22:14
lcukbut thats pisspoor22:15
lcuki get mutliple complete recursive elements naturally in liqbase22:15
RST38hsolar cells reached 40.6% efficiency22:16
RST38hincredible stuff22:16
lcukyer tis22:16
lcukits amazing what the price of oil can do to scientists22:17
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lcukbbl anyway22:18
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* Jaffa gets to "Experience" and "Intelligence of Maemo Software" in jussi's email and says to himself, "I'll come back to this later" ;-)22:19
X-FadeRST38h: "TFA is slashdotted, but a little googling shows this happened two years ago." :)22:20
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* GeneralAntilles shoots jussi for using ""22:21
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RST38hMust have some fatal flow then, given that we are not seeing those cells22:22
strafeWas wondering if I can manipulate / change what programs load when i access them through nokia's file manager?22:22
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strafenokia's file manager - i mean the one that comes preloaded w/ the n80022:23
RST38hhehe, we should expect newly update diablo to waste battery :)))22:23
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RST38hthe google search applet has a blinking cursor now.22:25
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Luriahey  Mousey22:26
hrwRST38h: some people will never learn..22:26
Luriastill havent bothered with host mode on the n81022:27
lcukwhich is latest version btw22:27
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RST38hhrw: well, to hell with some people, it is my battery that will get drained22:28
strafeis emelFM2 a better alternative?22:28
LuriaMousey, sorry i never emailed, i still need to work though my defcon notes22:29
strafemidnight commander - i don't know how to use and is buggy22:29
Mouseyno worries, defcon is all kind of a vague blur anyway, i've moved my entire house across two state lines since then. ^_^22:29
RST38hmc is not buggy22:29
strafeguess I better go back to the manual then22:30
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Luriabrick by brick? thats a lot of walking...22:31
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strafeI'm looking for a file manager that will allow me to connect via bluetooth, shared folders (sshfs, nfs, cifs)22:31
strafebut also allow me to change what programs I want to use when i click on a file22:31
hrwstrafe: and it has to be for maemo?22:31
strafenot necessarily22:32
hrwnautilus? dolphin?22:32
strafei was thinking the same thing22:32
strafebut do I have to load debain?22:32
Mouseydolphin == fail22:32
Mouseykonqueror == win!22:32
strafedebain / debian22:32
hrwMousey: especially in kde4?22:32
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sp3000RST38h: it alqays did? or at least in the w3022:33
sp3000always even22:33
Mouseyno matter22:33
Mekboth dolphin and konqueror run juts fine on maemo :P22:33
Mouseykonqueror > dolphin22:33
strafeany suggestions?22:33
hrwMousey: in kde4 konqueror use delphin kpart for file management ;D22:33
sp3000now if something were to blink while blanked, then you file a bug :)22:33
Luriaanyone ordering a pandora tomorrow?22:34
hrwMek: please.... let those 'kde porters' start thinging of 'kde on n8x0' instead of 'kde on maemo'22:34
strafeare the repos on maemo?22:34
Mekhrw: hmm? why?22:35
Mouseyhrw, no matter, as long as i can have webpages or fish:// in another tab.. oh, and an icon navigation view that goes deeper than one frickin' level22:35
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* Mousey realizes he's being dragged offtopic22:35
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Mekhrw: I only have an n810, but it should run on anything that can run diablo I guess...22:35
hrwMek: because kde is one desktop environment when maemo is other22:35
Mousey /22:36
hrwusing kde apps inside of maemo is just wasting space due to left/top taskbars22:36
Mekhrw: this is not about the desktop environment, but about the applications; kde is more than just the desktop environment22:36
hrwMousey: ok, let it be hildon22:36
strafeUsing linux as my main OS, I've played w/ a few converters for video for linux. Any reccomendations as to what I should use that has support for most media formats / codecs?22:36
Mouseyi don't see why you couldn't have konqueror in hildon22:37
Mouseyor whatever22:37
Mouseythey're just Xclients22:37
Mekplasma is about the only app that doesn't make sense in hildon22:37
hrwI prefer to run whole kde desktop instead of hildon toolbars22:37
strafehrw: I agree, I didn't not want to use kde apps inside of maemo22:37
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Mouseyapt-get remove hildon22:37
Mouseyapt-get remove hildon*22:37
Mouseythen PRAY22:37
gpdhmm... I am in reboot cycle...22:38
Mouseygpd: i didn't really mean do it22:38
hrwok - have a nice evening22:38
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gpdno -- i just got here --- having updated... and now screwed...22:38
Mouseyi hate when that happens22:39
GeneralAntillesSurprise, surprise. sliderotate screws up SSU.22:39
Mouseywhats sliderotate?22:40
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Mouseyi don't know why i can't jfgi, i apologize22:41
Mouseyty Luria22:41
Mouseyseamless software update?22:42
infobotrumour has it, ssu is
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Luriasigh, i have to go figure out why my scratchbox machine has disappeared22:43
Mouseyty again22:43
lcukluria, sorry was that yours, i reformatted it and put vista on it for you22:44
GeneralAntillesWhere'd I put that o-s-v bug. . . .22:44
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Luriahrmf. i see the box, just not on nmap22:44
lcukssu link gives a blank page - does that mean i get no updates22:44
Luriagoddamn headless server22:44
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lcukluria, the worst ones are when they are half way around the world22:45
GeneralAntilleslcuk, just reload. . . .22:45
GeneralAntillesAnybody have any clues on what's causing the reboot loops for people?22:45
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Stskeepsis it just me or is xournal in diablo extras shite? :P22:53
* Stskeeps goes check if he managed to install it from -devels by accident22:53
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yacoobso, what's new in the update?22:55
||cwuh oh... /var/cache/apt/archives# rm -f osso-browser-opera-eal_2\%3a1.6.8-1_armel.deb22:55
||cwrm: cannot remove 'osso-browser-opera-eal_2%3a1.6.8-1_armel.deb': No space left on device22:55
GeneralAntillesMost of the same stuff that was new-ed in 30-222:55
Stskeeps770?, ||cw ?22:56
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Stskeepsokay, so there's no stable xournal for Diablo? :P22:56
||cwhm, / has 13MB free...wtf22:56
GeneralAntillesJust pull from Chinook.22:56
Stskeepsthink i'll have to22:57
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||cwuh oh, reboot loop22:59
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* Stskeeps groans23:03
Stskeepsxournal icon doesn't work but xournal does23:03
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ywwgThe latest OS2008 update crashed my n810 (infinite reboot) and I'm having trouble finding some packages that I'd had installed23:04
ywwgfor instance, how do I get the "less" command back?  It's an ungooglable command :/23:04
towoWell, the package should be called, like, 'less'.23:05
||cwis it seperate package now?  used to part of another23:05
ywwgif anyone has it, a dpkg -S should locate it, right?23:05
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Stskeeps.. and why does my nokia say "autosaving document" all the time? O_o23:08
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Stskeeps(.. should really rant on offtopic on ITT instead)23:08
NaviStskeeps: in what, xournal?23:10
NaviThe Diablo Xournal is broken23:10
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StskeepsNavi: i know diablo xournal is broken - but my nokia just said autosaving document.. in charging process23:11
GeneralAntillesFun stuff.23:12
* GeneralAntilles doesn't look forward to re-triaging all those goddamn bugs.23:12
GeneralAntillesandre___, did you notice that?23:12
* andre___ looks up23:13
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I'm in favor of forcing Nokia to change the versioning.23:13
GeneralAntillesThey fucked us, and I'm not gonna clean up after their screw up.23:13
NaviI like fagness23:14
ywwgI think I had a bad line in my sources.list, it's in diablo/tools not diablo23:14
GeneralAntillesywwg, yeah, they changed it for diablo.23:15
ywwgalso, what's the apt or dpkg command to find out which repository an installed package came from?23:18
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RST38hGAN: As long as they use CONSISTENT versioning I am fine even if they call those versions with pet names23:20
andre___please make that recursive23:20
RST38handre: It is all in your hands, I am not working for Nokia =)23:20
andre___RST38h, i'm also not working for nokia.23:21
andre___(at least not directly)23:21
RST38hand no, using cyrillics for tertiary version numbers won't do it =)23:21
andre___cyrillic numbers are the same. we could use farsi numbers.23:21
RST38hit was a small letter v23:22
RST38huse hebrew and number those versions right-to-left!23:22
andre___∞? then your irc client is b0rken ;-)23:22
RST38hNope it is your irc client that is broken and your terminal too =023:22
andre___no way! :-P23:22
andre___double true!23:22
RST38hNot using cp1251? Just wait until Evil Putin makes you! =)23:22
andre___a small v in cyrillic is still в here. not ∞. end of discussion! ;-)23:23
GeneralAntillesKernel changes23:24
andre___hmm, that "random: fix seeding with zero entropy" is probably
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Stskeepsjohnx_: bootmenu updated btw23:26
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GeneralAntillesandre___, can you correlate those NB#?23:27
andre___let me see23:28
RST38handre: Unicode isn't really used much in console world23:28
RST38hStill either cp1251 or koi823:28
andre___yupp... anything else than unicode must die23:29
RST38hmmm...not really23:30
RST38halthough I guess unicode is convenient for web pages23:30
jottand for chatting in klingon!23:30
RST38hthat too23:30
andre___GeneralAntilles, those NB#s don't have an equivalent in maemo bugzilla...23:31
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infobotfrom memory, version is Kernel: uname -r.  Debian: cat /etc/debian_version. and: dpkg -l libc6 | tail -1.  Package: dpkg -l _pkgname_.  Miscellaneous: try --version on the command. check /etc/apt/sources.list; run apt-cache policy <packagename>, or lsb_release -d23:33
jott-> fyi kernel diff 30->35
gomiamwhat's the latest IT OS 2008 version?23:34
andre___GeneralAntilles, that OP0 fix has to do with video playback quality it seems23:34
GAN800That sounds useful.23:34
andre___gomiam, with the latest updates installed it's 4.2008.36-523:34
GAN800Wikipedia always has the latest.23:35
gomiamI'll have to see if I can get the SLS to work now23:35
infoboti heard sls is Softlanding Linux System... see:
gomiamargh, ~SSL23:35
andre___gomiam, what about asking a question that doesn't start with ~ ? ;-)23:36
VeggenHW_RANDOM? and OMAP? Does this mean that encryption is gonna speed up?23:37
gomiamandre___: I wanted infobot to tell me XD23:37
gomiamthen again, it seems it won't happen23:37
gomiamsince I don't know what to ask23:37
gomiamwhat's the package to install in order to be able to upgrade the tablet without reflashing?23:39
gomiamGAN800: there's a way to upgrade now without reflashing23:40
GAN800OS2008 Feature Upgrade?23:40
gomiamGAN800: might be that23:40
GAN800might be. . . .23:40
* andre___ also wants to try23:41
infobotextra, extra, read all about it, ssu is
RST38hweird: looks like that cursor in the search applet has been a glitch of some kind23:41
RST38hI rebooted and it no longer appears23:41
jottmm it blinks here.23:42
RST38hhere it is again23:42
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RST38hthis is sure going to suck the battery empty23:42
jottit's when you focus it.23:42
jottswitch the search engine to loose the focus :)23:43
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RST38hit seems to get focus randomly23:44
jottstill sounds like a friendly way to suck some extra watt :)23:44
RST38hno idea how it operates23:44
* RST38h is running apt-get upgrade - lots of new packages23:44
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GAN800terrible plan.23:45
GAN800wrong combination of repos and packages == reboot loop.23:46
RST38hI have the right combination.23:46
RST38hIn the meanwhile, DOW -777 - is it a jackpot? =)23:46
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guerbyhi, I accepted 20 upgrades to my N810 under diablo and now the wifi dialog doesn't show any signal (and does not display the GSM pairing either)23:47
guerbydoes that ring a bell?23:47
jottRST38h: you just won 700.000.000.000$ :p23:48
RST38hjott: Actually, they didn't - that's why it's down =)23:48
GAN800guerby, uh, did icd2 get updated properly?23:48
guerbyGAN800, let me check23:48
RST38hBut I guess this is how descending into a blackhole would look like. At least to the brokers.23:48
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GAN800guerby, did you apt-get upgrade without o-s-v installed or something?23:49
RST38hGoing in circles around a giant gaping asshole...23:49
GAN800supermassive black hole23:49
GAN800supermassive asshole23:49
RST38h"Game not started yet" bug is still present in games after update23:50
guerbyGAN800, what version should I have?23:50
RST38hIs it reported at bugzilla?23:50
guerbyGAN800, no I used the graphical updater23:50
GAN800Wasn't that wontixed or some such insanity?23:50
* RST38h would be interested what the wontfix reason would be for something like this23:51
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GAN800Not a priority23:51
GAN800Check bugzilla, though.23:51
guerbyicd2 is 0.5623:52
guerbylibicd2 0.5023:52
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andre___somebody give me a bug ID, or a description of the issue23:53
GeneralAntillesMaking me get off the couch. . . .23:54
andre___at least there's no games bug filed with the string "not started"23:54
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RST38hdoes not appear that such bug exists23:55
GeneralAntillesI swear it does.23:55
RST38handre: Description of the issue:23:55
RST38handre: Starting with Diablo, when you start a game (any game using game helper API), after about 10-15 seconds it shows the "Game not started yet" message.23:56
andre___RST38h, please file a bug :)23:56
RST38handre: The message does not affect gameplay (the game has obviously been started by now) but it is annoying23:56
RST38hwill do23:56
prometoyshi, it seems the wiki is offline. has  somebody the link to the gui tool to convert videos on linux for the tablet?23:56
GeneralAntillesprometoys, reload.23:56
andre___prometoys, wiki is slow but not offline for me. just reload. hej hej, by the way23:57
prometoyshi andre, alles klar?23:57
prometoysyes it works23:57
prometoysI am sooooooo happy when nokia got the new servers for maemo23:57
andre___prometoys, jau jau... just a bit busy :)23:58

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