IRC log of #maemo for Tuesday, 2008-09-30

sp3000redundant sp3000 is redundant00:00
RST38handre,General: filed the bug. vote for it if possible.00:00
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RST38hok, sleep time00:01
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sp3000...and after 5 minutes you see the "Think the game has started yet? Think again." banner00:01
gomiamok, I finally found that, despite osso-software-version-rx34 being 4.2008.36-5, the About box on the Control Panel still say sI'm at 23-1400:02
GeneralAntillesgomiam, that version field is easily corrupted.00:02
gomiamis that really a problem?00:02
gomiamoh, nice to know.00:02
GeneralAntillesThere's a script to fix it that you can run, but I don't remember it off-hand.00:02
gomiamnever mind. Knowing to apt-cache policy the version is enough for now XD00:03
RST38hSetting priority to "low" will leave it ignored.00:03
RST38hIt makes sense to keep it on medium even although the bug is minor00:03
GeneralAntillesRST38h, the bug priorities don't matter.00:04
GeneralAntillesMost of the bugs aren't triaged by Nokia.00:04
GeneralAntillesThe only bugs with real priority are the website bugs.00:04
GeneralAntillesThe rest of them are either reporter-set or random00:04
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GeneralAntillesthey have zero correlation to internal priorities.00:04
guerbygomiam, about says 4.2008.23-14 and my osso-...version 1:4.2008.23-1400:04
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guerbybut I got no network00:04
gomiamguerby: I just got a 33 MB OS update00:05
gomiamso that might explain it00:05
guerbyGAN800, do you know a way to launch network from the command line?00:05
gomiamnow I'll need to check whether my N800 still falis with just one WiFi router in WPA mode XD00:05
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GeneralAntilles /etc/init.i/icd2 restart may work00:06
GeneralAntilleser, init.d00:06
gomiamwhile I'm at it... is there an alternate package for mouse icons?00:06
guerbyGeneralAntilles, let me try00:06
guerbyGeneralAntilles, it says starting ... icd2 but nothing else happens and the net dialog is still stuck on searching00:08
GAN800guerby, restart the tablet?00:08
guerbyGAN800, I did it already twice00:08
RST38hGAN: Well, I hope this one is really easy to fix00:09
prometoysandre, sp3000, thanks, got it now :)00:09
guerbyas process I have /usr/sbin/icd2 -1000:09
guerby/sbin/udhcpc -i wlan0 ....00:09
prometoysgood night everybody00:09
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GAN800geurby, sounds like the install didn't go down so well00:09
GAN800You could force a dpkg configure00:09
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GAN800But I dunno00:10
guerbyGAN800, thx again, let me try00:10
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GAN800I'd make a backup and prep yourself for flashing, though.00:10
gomiamI'm a bit confused... it seems all my already installed apps are now to be reinstalled, even if the current version is the same as the installed one :-D00:10
guerbyGAN800, what's the exact dpkg command line to try?00:10
GAN800guerby, I'm blanking.00:11
RST38hgomiam: it sometimes glitches this way00:11
RST38hgomiam: but do make sure you reenable Diablo Extras00:11
gomiamRST38h: fortunately, I have the time and patience XD00:11
gomiam(and a Bt kbd to boot)00:12
RST38hyou can just do "Update All" and get some tea00:12
RST38hBTW, is your bt kbd lagging? losing characters maybe?00:12
gomiamRST38h: Diablo? Shouldn't it be chinook?00:12
gomiamopen mouth, insert foot00:13
RST38hYou should have two Extras repos00:13
gomiamof course it's Diablo, Chinook is for oldies not yet updated00:13
RST38hOne should not have anything in the distro line - this will be your current repo (i.e. diablo)00:13
RST38hBut you should also have one with chinook in the distro line - in case you need a package that has not been moved over yet00:13
gomiamoh, ok00:14
guerbyGAN800, some more info, I launched icd2 -l 000:14
guerbyroute: SIOC|ADD|DEL|RT: No such process00:14
guerbywhen I launch the net box00:15
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gomiamyet another question: has anybody been able to emulate F1-F12 and Home,End,et al. keys on an Ubiquio foldable bluetooth keyboard?00:20
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gomiam(on a N800 preferably)00:23
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JaffaGAN800: I think anything which has a priority of "low" may be discounted further within Nokia, but setting it above "low" doesn't seem to affect anything00:29
GeneralAntillesJaffa, etrunko, more blogging. :P00:31
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GeneralAntillesYou even get double karma. ;)00:32
* Jaffa wonders why the users of ITT seem to have so many more problems with "seamless" software updates. Following random power-user instructions without knowing what they're doing?00:33
GeneralAntillesWell, that, and a rather extreme self-selecting sample.00:34
GeneralAntillesI'd really like to pin the issues down, though.00:34
GeneralAntillesSo I can offer more than a "reflash" to people.00:34
JaffaSeems to mostly be people installing new kernels, initfses, X servers or booting off SD without understanding the impact that'll have on them.00:35
GeneralAntillesemjayes' packages love to break things.00:36
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GeneralAntillesandre___, that comment makes more sense now.00:37
andre___hmm... answered that in comment 700:38
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GeneralAntilles"This issue is fixed in the next SDK release maemo4.1.1 (PE2 update)."00:39
* GeneralAntilles learns how to highlight text.00:39
andre___garr, ok00:39
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moontigertheres a system update that breaks icd2 again??00:44
GeneralAntillesmoontiger, no.00:45
GeneralAntillesWorked just fine for me and many others.00:45
* andre___ goes to sleep00:45
JaffaHmm. SSH seems *really* slow post-update (could be my wifi)00:45
* GeneralAntilles is not sure why Ubuntu on the Pandora is such a big deal.00:45
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GeneralAntillesJaffa, fine here.00:45
GeneralAntillesPSM being bitchy?00:45
gpdso... in a boot cycle still -- anything other than reflash i can do?00:47
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GeneralAntillesgpd, depends entirely on why the reboot loop is happening.00:48
GeneralAntillesYou could usbnet and ssh in with fanoush's bootmenu.00:48
macoutewould you by any chance have an osso-default-icons package?00:48
GeneralAntillesBut if you don't know what's wrong. . . .00:48
macouteosso-icons-default that is00:49 is a blank page.... handy00:49
andre___gpd: reload it00:49
gpdandre___: weird - but thanks!00:50
macoutemy SSU went wrong with that package and im missing my cable for a reflash00:50
GeneralAntillesgpd, apache threads are segfaulting every once and a while.00:50
GeneralAntillesWaiting on the new servers this week.00:51
macoutesounds nice :)00:51
gpdok - remind me where to find the image i should be flashing?00:51
macoutesegfaulting apache00:51
infoboti heard flashing is
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macoutewhy cant i find the package from for example?00:52
macouteshould it be there?00:52
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macoutemy apt-get says something like "package osso-icons-default needs to be reinstalled but its archinve cannot be found"00:53
gpd2008.23-14 <--- seems rather old -- is that right? then update again without restoring from backup?00:54
JaffaGeneralAntilles: seems better now. Could've been PSM, or congestion (laptop's on wired)00:55
GeneralAntillesIt's usually PSM when mine goes slow.00:55
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GeneralAntillesmacoute, cat /etc/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list and paste it to http://slexy.org00:57
* gpd flashes... :(00:57
* Mousey looks away in horror00:59
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cuselardman: a lie!01:07
lardmanvery cool that SSU warns that I don't have enough battery life to update and I need to start charging01:07
lardmancuse: it's all relative ;)01:07
GAN800Hello, lardman.01:07
lardmanhey GAN80001:07
GAN800lardman, nore blogging.01:07
infobotGAN800 meant: lardman, more blogging.01:07
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gpdinstalling feature upgrade... on a fresh flash.. fingers folded over01:08
lardmanfrom me?01:08
* lardman doesn't tend to blog01:08
GAN800Tough cookies, council member. :P01:08
zapAm I a slowpoke or today a new SSU was released?01:09
gpdsystem successfully updated... minor miracle :)01:09
GAN800 :p01:09
GAN800zap, yes, it was.01:09
gpdballs -- that was just the first system update... another 33mb to go :(01:10
GAN800lardman, and, oh, neither do I. But what can you do? ;)01:10
lardmanGAN800: ah, council blog you mean01:11
GAN800Of course. ;)01:11
lardmanI've been busy this weekend, and had today off - moving furniture around01:12
lardmanI promise I'll get around to it eventually ;)01:12
zapkekeke, says not enuf memory01:12
lardmanIn the meantime I need to reboot (running in gf's WinXP login atm)01:12
JaffaShould problem do something in the next couple of days about how the update was received. Some people experienced lots of problems, and couldn't sort it out. Not entirely Nokia's fault (though see for some which are), but - as a community - we need to try and identify the problems so future SSUs can mitigate the risks somehow.01:12
JaffaPretend I did s /problem /probably / (but I don't want infobot spamming)01:13
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GAN800Jaffa, I'm in favor of drafting qwerty12 to do all the groundwork.01:13
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JaffaAnyway, I've got to be up at 05:20 to get a 06:04 train to be in the office at 07:30 for an 08:30 meeting. Must sleep now.01:14
GAN800Have fun.01:14
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crashanddielardman, would be better if it just stfu about charge level and took some juice from USB :P01:17
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GAN800crashanddie, for an ssu update?01:18
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crashanddiedefine SSU?01:19
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infoboti guess ssu is
GAN800crashanddie, is that rock nice? :p01:21
lardmanworked for me anyway :)01:21
lardmanderf: am looking01:21
JaffaThe one you're living under ;-)01:22
crashanddieI didn't have either SSU's :(01:23
GAN800Don't uninstall o-s-v01:24
GAN800apt-get install osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked01:25
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zapoh sh....01:28
zapperpetuum reboot loop :-(01:28
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crashanddieGAN800, crap, that's a lot it's going to install :P Will that push the updates as well?01:29
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GAN800crashanddie, the first one.01:29
GAN800Then you'll need to install the second.01:29
GAN800But your browser will be a lot faster.01:30
zapand you won't be able to boot01:30
zapdoes SSU include a kernel/initrd update?01:30
GAN800zap, any chance you could investigate some debugging?01:30
GAN800Yes, kernel and initfs were updated.01:31
zapI can create a second partition on my ext SD and clone somehow the ROM there01:31
lardmanGAN800: what's happened to the browser to speed it up?01:31
zapI had boot menu installed01:31
zapand it's still there01:31
GAN800lardman, coding happened. :P01:31
lardmanfair enough :)01:32
GAN800We're getting closer to trunk01:32
zapthey used patented lcuk technology, now it's 24.9fps01:32
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lardmanlcuk: bacccooooonnnn!01:33
lcukwas busy not sleeping :)01:33
* lcuk is preparing a beta for everyone01:34
lcuk:D lardman i had bacon steaks on sunday01:34
zapI have the impression that somehow the kernel has been flashed, but initrd not01:35
lcukhow do i know if im updated01:35
zapthis could be one of the causes of reboots01:35
lcukcos i havent been asked today01:35
zapcat /etc/osso-software-version?01:35
GAN800ooh, zap, I like that thinking.01:35
lardmanthat annoying link with OS2008 on it comes back to the desktop01:36
GAN800zap, can you try downgrading the kernel?01:36
lcuklardman, change it for your favorite homepage01:36
lardmanlcuk: yeah, I suppose so01:37
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GAN800or just disable it.01:37
zapI'm in (via USB recovery mode)01:38
* lcuk thinks hes missed the updates01:38
GAN800lcuk, refresh repos.01:38
GAN800and make sure o-s-v is installed.01:38
lcukwhat version should i be on01:38
GAN80030-2 if you haven't updated01:39
Mekfor me application manager didn't show any available updates, but apt-get upgrade did correctly update it...01:39
lcuki refreshed stuff before01:39
lcukill try installin the thingy u said01:39
GAN800Mek, did you uninstall o-s-v01:40
GAN800Just, fyi, upgrading without o-s-v is very dangerous.01:40
MekGAN800: not deliberately...01:40
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GAN800It's about as easy to accidentally uninstall as it could possibly be01:41
GAN800Upgrading or removing anything it depends on (lots and lots) removes it.01:42
zapcat /proc/cpuinfo says: "Revision: 24202524"01:42
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zapis this the updated kernel?01:42
zapor this is hardware revision01:42
zapcat /mnt/new_root/etc/osso_software_version01:42
lcuko-s-v not listed :S01:42
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lcukahh well01:43
lcukill do without goodness01:43
Mekhmm... apt-cache search only finds a osso-software-version-unlocked...01:44
GeneralAntillesMek, cat /etc/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list01:44
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ion_cu_vacahi all01:45
zapGAN800: if I run flash-and-reboot it tells me "These images are available //  /boot/zImage-diablo-200835 //  /usr/share/osso/images/initfs.jffs2"01:45
GeneralAntillesWhen flash-and-reboot is run successfully it purges the images on the rootfs.01:45
ion_cu_vacaquestion, how do I force my tablet to search for software update? I keept it on connected to net for the last 6 hours but no luck. I'm talking about the os update01:46
zap"apt-get upgrade" says something about pre-installed-documentation-rx4401:46
GeneralAntillesion_cu_vaca, open Application manager, tap Show installable applications or Show updates01:47
GeneralAntilleshit the little rotating circle in the bottom right01:47
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zapion_cu_vaca: mai ioane, click the button with the rotating arrows in App Manager01:47
zapion_cu_vaca: in the bottom right corner01:47
ion_cu_vacaGeneralAntilles, doesn't show any updates01:47
GeneralAntillesMek, Nokia is stupid and evil01:47
GeneralAntillesthey don't keep all of the latest packages in the latest tableteer update repo.01:47
GeneralAntillesSo, basically, here's how it went down.01:48
GeneralAntilleso-s-v was uninstalled at some point01:48
GeneralAntillesso you didn't get the update notification01:48
GeneralAntillesto update, you ran apt-get upgrade and it installed new packages01:48
GeneralAntillesone of these new packages was nokia-repositories01:48
GeneralAntilleswhich does two things, wipes out maemo Extras (bastards), and increments the upgrade repo (diablo-1/ to diablo-2/)01:49
GeneralAntillesand o-s-v install available in diablo-2/01:49
Mekmy extras is still in sources.list.d/extras.list :P01:49
GeneralAntillesMek, well, it disables maemo Extras.01:49
GeneralAntillesSo, you can wait until the next update is pushed and install o-s-v then or re-add diablo-1/ and grab o-s-v from there.01:50
GeneralAntillesPersonally, I'd save the hassle and just wait.01:50
GeneralAntillesI'm glad to hear an apt-get upgrade worked fine, though.01:50
GeneralAntillesAs it induced reboot loops with 30-201:50
Mekokay, I'll do that01:50
GeneralAntillesOK, ion_cu_vaca. ;)01:51
GeneralAntillesYou probably removed osso-software-version-rx*4 at some point (it's really easy to remove accidentally)01:51
GeneralAntillesion_cu_vaca, what do you have an N800 or N810?01:51
GeneralAntillesion_cu_vaca, run an apt-get install osso-software-version-rx3401:52
GeneralAntillesin Xterm as root01:52
GeneralAntillesthat should fix you up.01:52
ion_cu_vacathat command will update my os to the latest ver. or just restore the osso-software-version that I removed at some point?01:54
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GeneralAntillesIt will restore it and update the OS.01:54
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zapum... anybody can tell me hows' called the device node for MMC2?01:55
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zapaha, /dev/mmcblk0p1, thx01:57
ion_cu_vacadid I make a mistake that I ran that command over ssh?01:58
zapnow you have to wait01:58
ion_cu_vacathis was last thing that appeared: Preparing to replace icd2 0.50 (using .../archives/icd2_0.56_armel.deb) ... Stopping Internet Connectivity daemon 2: icd201:58
zapyep, same happened here :)01:58
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zapthe network connection got lost at some point01:58
ion_cu_vacaI have to wait a reboot or something? when do I know that the process is done?01:59
zapI think it should reboot at some point01:59
zapbut for some reason it didn't happen to me01:59
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ion_cu_vacahow long should I wait?02:02
zapyou may try to run top on NIT02:02
zapand see if it does something02:02
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zapok, I'm going to let flash-and-reboot do its dirty work02:05
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GeneralAntillesErg, sorry, ion_cu_vaca.02:06
GeneralAntillesShoulda warned you.02:06
GeneralAntillesicd2 (the connectivity daemon) was updated02:06
GeneralAntillesit's restarted as part of the update02:06
GeneralAntilleswhich drops the wifi, of course.02:06
zapFlash and remove them? The device will reboot. (y/N)? y02:07
zap/usr/bin/flash-and-reboot: line 63: fiasco-flasher: not found02:07
zapwhat;s fiasco-flasher and where do I get it?02:08
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zapfalse alarm, /usr/sbin was not in PATH02:08
lardmannight all02:09
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ion_cu_vacaok, how do I force the update again? just restarted the tablet and I still have same version02:09
zapvia app manager?02:09
ion_cu_vacastill app manager doesn't show the update02:10
zapapt-get install osso-software-version-rx34?02:10
GeneralAntillesmaybe an apt-get -f install02:10
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ion_cu_vacaI get "E: sub-process /usr/bin/dpkg returnet an error code (1)" when I run apt-get install osso-software-version-rx3402:11
ion_cu_vacaok, I'll try apt-get -f install02:11
ion_cu_vacasame error02:12
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zap/dev/mtd2: No such file or directory02:15
zapcan anybody tell me whats the major:minor of /dev/mtd2?02:15
dick-richardsonwhy is deborphan available for os2006, but not diablo?02:15
guerbyGeneralAntilles, ion_cu_vaca so I'm not alone02:15
dick-richardsonzap: root:root02:16
zapdick-richardson: major and minor numbers02:16
dick-richardson440 permission02:16
zapsomething like "3, 0"02:16
zapls -la it02:16
GeneralAntillesguerby, how do you figure?02:16
dick-richardsonhang on02:16
GeneralAntillesHis problem doesn't sound at all like yours.02:16
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guerbyGeneralAntilles, connection was dropped from app manager for me too (I didn't update through ssh)02:16
GeneralAntillesguerby, that's not a bug.02:16
GeneralAntillesLike I said02:16
GeneralAntillesicd2 was updated02:17
GeneralAntillesand it has to be restarted during the update.02:17
GeneralAntillesYour problem is that it doesn't start properly after the update (abnormal), not that it was restarted during the update (normal).02:17
jottfor everyone wanting to test rotation support on the new ssu: (you should know how to install if you want to try :P02:17
dick-richardsonzap: not sure what portion of the listing you're after...the entire thing is: crw-rw---- 1 root root 90, 4 Dec31 1969 /dev/mtd202:17
zapaha, 90:402:18
dick-richardsonwhat does that refer to, if i may ask?02:18
zap90 is the internal index of the MTD driver02:18
zapand 4 is device number02:18
crashanddieion_cu_vaca, I get the same, but with rx4402:19
Veggendick: it's a numbering scheme for devices.02:19
zapall in all, these numbers determine to which driver the query will go to02:19
VeggenActually, the device file name is just a pointer to those numbers.02:19
dick-richardsonahh, ty :)02:19
ion_cu_vacasooooooo, do I have to flash my beloved n800 to fix it?02:19
zapflashed new kernel and new initrd02:20
dick-richardsonI had an issue with a root owned file in the /home/user/MyDocs/.documents directory02:20
crashanddie"Errors were encountered while processing: /var/cache/apt/archives/pre-installed-documentation-rx44_5.4_all.deb02:20
dick-richardsonremoving it helped...not sure if that's an issue someone's fighting02:20
zapnow I have no boot menu, but it still reboots at the end of boot process :-(02:20
dick-richardsoncrashanddie: that's the exact error I had02:20
crashanddie"I had" ? Past tense? Did you fix it?02:20
zapnice, nice. I see everyone got his individual problem here :)02:20
dick-richardsoncrashanddie: yep02:20
crashanddiedick-richardson, give it to me baby02:21
dick-richardsonremove (backup) everything from /home/user/MyDocs/.documents/02:21
dick-richardsonwant it nice and empty02:21
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dick-richardsonat the terminal: cd /var/cache/apt/archives02:22
VDVsxhi, exist a easy way to pop up the maemo virtual keyboard in a app ? in python for example02:22
dick-richardsonas root: dpkg -i --force-all pre-installed-documentation-rx44_5.4_all.deb02:23
* zap thinks the channel remembers an Anonymous Alcoholics Society during every release of SSU02:23
dick-richardson"--force-all" is not something I'd recommend for daily use02:23
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, dick-richardson, would you vote on ?02:24
guerbyproblem similar to mine but I had no automatic connection so I'm out of wifi02:24
GeneralAntillesguerby, sounds like he was in Red Pill.02:25
dick-richardsoncrashanddie: did it work?02:26
guerbyGeneralAntilles, I probably still have it too (unless diablo upgrade clears it)02:27
crashanddieI think I bricked my NIT02:27
dick-richardsonGeneralAntilles: put my vote it for you02:27
dick-richardsondid it come back to a command prompt?02:27
dick-richardsonafter that last command?02:27
crashanddiedick-richardson, it whined that I had to -f install, so I did, it installed a bunch of stuff02:28
dick-richardsoncrashanddie: mine just quietly did what I told it...odd02:29
ion_cu_vacaI give up. I reflashing02:29
dick-richardsoncrashanddie: probably not bricked...should still be able to flash it02:29
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guerbyion_cu_vaca, I wish I knew how to restart network by command line02:29
guerbythis knowledge must exist somewhere...02:30
guerbyifup wlan0 gave nothing02:30
ion_cu_vacaover ssh? :-))02:30
guerbyion_cu_vaca, with xterm :)02:30
dick-richardsonguerby: sudo /etc/init.d/networking restart02:30
ion_cu_vacaso, what's the latest firmware? .23-14?02:31
dick-richardsonI should also point out that I disabled all chinook repos before upgrading initially...02:32
dick-richardsonanyone have deborphan installed?02:32
guerbydick-richardson, thx this started a wifi connection but not on the right router02:33
guerbybut I should be able to do something02:33
guerbyyep, I'm connected to my n810 through ssh02:34
guerby(and openvpn)02:34
guerbynow what should I do? apt-get update?02:34
dick-richardsondisable chinook repos first02:34
guerbydick-richardson, ok02:34
dick-richardsonthen I'd do a dist-upgrade02:35
ion_cu_vacaI hate that I have reflash... but who cares, I just save a bunch of money by .... bailout failure02:35
guerbydick-richardson, 3 .. 2 .. 1 ..02:36
dick-richardsonguerby connection reset by peer :P02:37
guerbydick-richardson, no :)02:37
guerbyThe following packages have unmet dependencies.02:37
guerby  osso-software-version-rx44: Depends: adobe-flashplayer (= 2.51-1) but 2.53-1 is installed02:37
guerby                              Depends: apt (= 0.7.6maemo2) but 0.7.6maemo3 is installed02:37
guerby                              Depends: browser-neteal (= but 0.0.18-1 is installed02:37
guerby                              Depends: icd2 (= 0.48) but 0.56 is installed02:37
guerby                              Depends: icd2-network-wlan-config (= 0.47) but 0.47-diablo1 is installed02:37
guerby                              Depends: libicd-network-dun (= 0.17) but 1:0.18 is installed02:38
guerby                              Depends: libicd-network-ipv4 (= 0.14) but 0.15 is installed02:38
guerby                              Depends: libicd-network-wlan (= 0.47) but 0.47-diablo1 is installed02:38
guerby                              Depends: libicd2 (= 0.48) but 0.50 is installed02:38
guerbylooks like a mess02:38
GeneralAntillesapt-get remove flash-player-r4802:38
guerbyGeneralAntilles, ok let me try02:38
dick-richardsondisable antivirus software02:38
guerbyE: Couldn't find package flash-player-r4802:39
guerbyii  adobe-flashplayer                                2.53-1                               Adobe Flashplayer02:39
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, any other package I need to install if I want to have the latest update?02:39
ion_cu_vacaso, I reflashed. not the application manager shows "os2008 feature upgrade 4.2008.30-2"02:39
ion_cu_vacadoesn't show the last one. do I have to update first to that version and then to the latest?02:40
zapI think yes02:40
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, o-s-v-u supersedes o-s-v02:40
GeneralAntillesion_cu_vaca, you'll need to run two updates.02:40
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, so i should be good then?02:40
zapalthough that is not like upgrades work on any other linux02:40
GeneralAntilleszap, yeah, Nokia is lame.02:42
zapit's all because of proprietary habbits02:42
GeneralAntillesWell, it's easier to test this upgrade path02:42
guerbyNokia-N810-23-14:~# apt-cache policy osso-software-version-rx4402:42
guerby  Installed: 1:4.2008.23-1402:42
guerby  Candidate: 1:4.2008.36-502:42
guerby  Version table:02:42
guerby     1:4.2008.36-5 002:42
guerby        500 ./ Packages02:42
guerby *** 1:4.2008.23-14 002:42
guerby        100 /var/lib/dpkg/status02:42
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GeneralAntillesthan upgrading from version 1 to version n02:43
zapits easier to release separate package upgrades02:43
crashanddieguerby, don't flood the channel, please02:43
GeneralAntillesguerby, http://slexy.org02:43
zapthan a whole bunch of stuff02:43
guerbycrashanddie, GeneralAntilles sorry02:43
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles, how can I tell if I have the latest update?02:45
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GeneralAntillescrashanddie, apt-cache show osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked02:46
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* nomis has some very much vaporware mockups for a Tablet Image Manipulation Program (TIMP) :)02:47
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, nothing02:47
ion_cu_vacais there a list with changes in the new os version?02:47
GeneralAntillesion_cu_vaca, not reeally.02:47
jottion_cu_vaca: i made *very* dumb assembly:
jottRST38h: how is your script going? :p02:48
guerbycould someone put a clean sources.list on ?02:48
ion_cu_vacathanks jott02:49
crashanddieoh, and btw, #maemo is the number one Slexy channel02:49
jottion_cu_vaca: it's not filtered by the actual release02:49
jottion_cu_vaca: so it's always the full changelog.02:49
jottand even that will not help you with NB#-77702:50
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, where's my commission? :P02:50
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, apt-cache show osso-software-version-rx44-unlocked didn't give anything, apt-cache policy says it's not even there02:50
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, didn't you install it, though?02:50
crashanddieI did02:50
crashanddieonly... through dpkg -i02:50
* GeneralAntilles 's brain hurts.02:51
GeneralAntillesToo much packaging.02:51
GeneralAntillesToo much triaging.02:51
* crashanddie gives GeneralAntilles a counter-brain-hurting pill02:51
crashanddieswallow my child, take it like a man02:51
GeneralAntillesNo effect!02:51
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crashanddieI always forget this channel is logged02:51
crashanddieSomeday, these quotes will come back to haunt me02:52
crashanddieversion: 4.2008.30-202:52
crashanddie(in about product window)02:53
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, about:plugins02:53
GeneralAntillesTell me the Flash version02:53
GeneralAntillesand tell me the modest version02:54
crashanddieflash 9.0 r4802:54
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crashanddieGeneralAntilles, where do I get browser version?02:55
GeneralAntillesabout: is still outdated02:56
GeneralAntillesapt-cache search microb-engine I guess.02:56
ion_cu_vacathanks for help to all. see ya02:56
GeneralAntillesPackage: microb-engine Version: 1.0.4-60.902:56
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GeneralAntillesHow about Modest?02:57
GeneralAntillesVersion: 1.0-2008.35-102:57
GeneralAntillesNot updated02:57
crashanddieah, no02:57
GeneralAntillesapt-get -f install02:57
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GeneralAntillesUnless you were SD booting?02:58
crashanddieit says twice modest02:58
crashanddieonce 35-1, once 24-102:58
GeneralAntillesThat'd've been the Chinook beta repo?02:58
GeneralAntilles cat /etc/sources.list.d/hildon-application-manager.list02:59
crashanddieI still have the modest chinook repo02:59
GeneralAntillesRemove it.02:59
GeneralAntillesOr don't03:00
GeneralAntillesprobably doesn't matter03:00
GeneralAntillesbut it's useless now.03:00
GeneralAntillesRun an apt-get -f install to be sure03:00
GeneralAntillesBut I think you're good.03:00
GeneralAntillesNokia doesn't make it easy to try a second time with their stupid repository setup. . . .03:00
guerbyhmm E: You don't have enough free space in /var/cache/apt/archives/.03:01
guerbyneed to get 46.6 M of archive03:01
GeneralAntillesIt should be caching to mmc2. . . .03:01
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guerbyI didn't upgrade in a while, probably too much at once03:01
guerbyGeneralAntilles, do you know where is the setting?03:01
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, not apt-get03:01
GeneralAntillesWell, application manager caches to mmc2.03:01
crashanddieguerby, rm /var/cache/apt/archives/*03:02
GeneralAntillesotherwise you could symlink it.03:02
guerbycrashanddie, it's empty03:02
guerbymay update a few ones manually in app manager03:02
crashanddiemkdir -p /media/mmc2/apt/archives/partial03:02
crashanddierm /var/cache/apt/archives03:03
crashanddieln -s /media/mmc2/apt/archives /var/cache/apt/archives03:03
guerbyhmm Operating System is listed at 34 MB03:04
crashanddieGeneralAntilles, microb seems to be faster03:04
GeneralAntillescrashanddie, you missed two speed-boosting upgrades. ;)03:04
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GeneralAntillesBy the way, Jaffa is the genius of the hour:
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crashanddienow if only I could get microb to not piss me about "unencrypted pages" as soon as a fill out a form03:07
crashanddieI'd be in heaven03:07
henriquehey, how do I can to write to the internal memory (mmc2)?03:07
henriqueit seems to be locked, but on storage details the "read-only" checkbox is disabled03:10
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GeneralAntilleshenrique, sounds corrupted.03:11
henriqueGeneralAntilles, how can I fix it then03:11
GeneralAntillesProbably still a messed up internal partition table.03:11
crashanddiehenrique, open up a terminal03:11
k-sX-Fade: I just tried the maemo-sdk-dev and still lacks libmodest*03:12
k-sX-Fade: idea?03:12
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GeneralAntillesk-s, wrong person to ask. ;)03:13
zapthats a obvious fix, I guess why Nokia didn't use it from the beginning03:13
zapdamnit, SSU f*d my device03:14
GeneralAntillesk-s, I'd try -developers03:14
k-sGeneralAntilles: he said today morning that he/someone was doing update about that03:14
GeneralAntillesor maybe bug Soumya03:14
* zap hates when it happens again03:14
yacoobBah. Why there's no latest image on nokia pages?03:14
k-sGeneralAntilles: that's why I'm asking :-)03:14
GeneralAntillesyacoob, supposedly they should be providing one.03:14
henriqueok, fixed...  crashanddie thanks!03:14
crashanddieNo problem03:14
crashanddiewhat did I do?03:15
yacooblatest there is, is 23-1403:15
yacoobthere was also a gears for microb...03:16
yacoobalthough pretty proof-of-concept03:17
zapwhat package contains the initfs?03:21
zapworked, ty03:23
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Sargun_ScreenHow many people are going to OP03:38
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guerbyok my n810 is back to normal, thx for your help guyes04:03
guerbyand good night :)04:03
Sargun_ScreenNo problem04:12
Sargun_Screen(Not like I helped you)04:12
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moontigerso the update didnt exactly make modest any more useful *sigh*05:58
GeneralAntillesIt was a bugfix release.05:59
GeneralAntillesWhat did you expect?05:59
KotCzarnymoontiger, what would make modest more useful for you?05:59
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moontigeri was just hoping is all :)06:02
moontigeri just saw a g-phone in the wild06:02
moontigerit looks way cooler than in shots ive seen online06:02
KotCzarnyis it fast?06:03
moontigeryah it looked really snappy06:03
moontigerthe touch scrolling is at least as good as the stuff on n81006:03
moontigerand its smaller and thinner than i thought it would be06:03
ricko73gsm coverage still sucks here06:03
moontigeryah it seemed to be loading pages real fast06:04
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moontigerand when u pop out the keyboard to type messages the screen rotates landscape ... unlike the iphone06:04
moontigeri was impressed06:04
KotCzarnyiphone doesn't have a kb06:04
moontigerheh yah i know ... but when they cant type msgs in landscape06:06
moontigeranyways i was impressed like i say ... and i didnt think i would be06:07
KotCzarnytheir screen res sucks06:07
KotCzarnythat's why no landscape probably06:07
moontiger<--- doesnt like iphones06:07
KotCzarnyplatform as many others06:07
KotCzarnyshiny, vendor lockin06:08
moontigeryeah i know and that will stop me buying one .... but it was nicer than i thought06:10
gregoroviusanybody knows when canola beta 10 might be out?06:10
KotCzarnygreg: i guess i saw people installing it?06:10
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GeneralAntillesgregorovius, soon.06:11
GeneralAntillesThey're working on it.06:11
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gregoroviusKotCzarny: it's in extras-devel, but I don't think it's installable yet06:11
GeneralAntillesgregorovius, that was a mistake.06:12
gregoroviusyeah, I read that06:12
gregoroviusI was looking for a more precise answer, like 'this week'? =)06:12
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GeneralAntillesgregorovius, it's in troubleshooting stage.06:19
GeneralAntillesAs soon as it's ready.06:19
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prakdoes anyone know of a good task management application that would sync with
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prakdoes anyone know of a good task management application that would sync with
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prakwhat would be a good synchronization software that would sync gpe-todo with and other links?08:00
KotCzarnyask on mailing list08:00
KotCzarnyapparently you don't get your answer on irc08:01
praki already asked on the mailing lists08:01
prakjust thought i may get a faster question on irc08:02
KotCzarnybut i saw you asking it for a few last days08:02
KotCzarnyand most of the people there are regulars08:02
KotCzarnyand not that we are ignoring your question08:02
KotCzarnyunless you are someone else08:03
praki just thought that my message was ignored or didn't go through08:03
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KotCzarnyand my visual memory is playing tricks08:03
praki apologize for flooding the questions repeatedly08:05
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praki guess i would have to wait from a reply on the mailing list then08:06
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KotCzarnyhi qwerty08:11
KotCzarnymorning irc dose?08:11
qwerty12hi KotCzarny08:11
qwerty12No, need to finish some work :P08:12
KotCzarnyon irc?08:12
qwerty12Well... I guess not, but my computer's on so I may as well join :P08:12
KotCzarnywho you wanna cheat :P08:13
qwerty12If anyone is good at Business studies here... :P08:14
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moontigerso im curious about the ssu08:51
moontigerit was a 12.8mb download and reqd 33mb of memory08:51
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moontigerand there is nothing significant i can see08:52
moontigerwtf did they do?08:52
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KotCzarnyinstalled a backhole08:52
Proteoussuper spastic underwear?08:52
* moontiger laughs08:52
moontigeri mean dsl is only just smaller than 33mb for a whole distro08:52
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qwerty12I'd rather not08:53
moontigeroh well ... im off to bed then ... to ponder the mystery of the huge update for nothing08:55
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Stskeepsbored people :P08:58
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* qwerty12 is thankful for portable shit. I've 'obtained' 3 different versions of office and they all give me bs during install08:59
KotCzarnybackorifice :P09:00
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KotCzarnyor was it backoffice09:00
KotCzarnyi know09:00
qwerty12the logo for backorifice was some wierd stuff09:00
KotCzarnyjust asking what was he installing09:00
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Proteouscult of the dead cow09:01
KotCzarnyqwerty: portable shit brings 2g1c imagery09:02
qwerty12KotCzarny, *sigh*09:02
KotCzarnyqwerty: so please, don't swear09:02
qwerty12Sorry, it's an habit that has been etched forever on my brain :/. But I prefer swearing to watching 2g1c09:03
KotCzarnyi have weeded out habitual swearing around my college end09:04
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qwerty12but you don't come from London ;)09:04
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Proteousswearing is like caffine, it's much more effective/enjoyable if you don't use it all the time09:05
KotCzarnythere are worse places than london09:05
qwerty12Indeed, there is. My point is that I'm hearing it all the time anyway09:05
Proteousthen when you need it, BAM! feels great09:05
KotCzarnyqwerty: but consider you are the part of the unending swearing09:06
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KotCzarnyjust install some linguistic firewall09:06
qwerty12Meh, I do the opposite. I have some greasemonkey script that attempts to "unhide" swearing09:07
KotCzarnyturning everything to shit?09:07
KotCzarnynow, that's sick09:07
qwerty12Worked well when it thought ProStreet was PornStreet...09:07
qwerty12Nah, it's more intelligent than that09:08
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KotCzarnybut will it blend?09:08
* qwerty12 now knows why I keep my ITT PM Box intentionally full09:09
rmrfchikI see updates 36-2...09:12
rmrfchikis there any changelog?09:13
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Proteouspack of 2 4gb flash drives for $20 including shipping on
Proteouswell, for those in the USA09:24
KotCzarnysd or cf?09:24
ProteousUSB flash drives09:24
qwerty12~lart them for not shipping to UK09:24
* infobot chops them in half with a free AOL CD for not shipping to UK09:24
KotCzarnyalthough may be useful for misc tests09:24
puslingmy harddrive is running full. how to clean up ?09:25
Proteoussandisk finaly went offical with the 16gb microSDHC09:25
puslingapt-get clean didn't free anything.09:25
qwerty12apt-get remove --purge pr0n09:25
Proteoustry apt-get takeOutTrash09:25
rmrfchikhey, guys, I dig internets and can't find the changelog for new SSU09:25
KotCzarnypusling: clone to sd09:25
Proteousapt-get; rm -rf /09:25
puslingand how am I supposed to uninstall software with the application manager when there is a few dependencies involved ?09:26
Proteousug, I hate that09:27
puslingI can of course go apt-get, but isn't "application manager" the tool users should use ?09:27
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KotCzarnypusling, automatic deps removing could end up in removing every single package09:29
MakeGhoonly if it's badly implemented09:29
puslingKotCzarny: I installed a game which had three packages with circular dependencies in between them, so I couldn't even start "from the top"09:30
KotCzarnythen it's a bug09:30
KotCzarnywhich should be filled09:31
puslingand upgrades does also seem to be one package at a time instead of pasing all packages at the same time, and when there is strict dependencies involved, that will also fail09:31
KotCzarnyis it me or it would be nice if someone invented 4x microsd to 1x sd adapter?09:32
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KotCzarnyshouldn't be hard because sds allow for daisy chaining09:32
KotCzarnyi think09:32
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KotCzarnyimagine 128gb worth of microsds in n80009:33
|thunderyou guys see the new user agent on n800 ?09:33
|thunderFirefox/3.0a1 Tablet browser 0.3.7 RX-34+RX-44+RX-48_DIABLO_4.2008.36-509:33
JaffaMorning, all09:34
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qwerty12|thunder, It changes with each ssu update09:34
Jaffa|thunder: and?09:34
puslingwtf is "pre-installed-documentation-rx44" ?  The OS2008 feature upgrade depends on it.09:34
qwerty12Morning, Jaffa09:34
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|thunderit changed from mozilla to firefox09:34
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Jaffapusling: User manual PDFs09:35
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KotCzarnyanyway, nite nite people09:36
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puslingJaffa: hmm.. I never read those yet and don't think I need them, but unremovable :/09:36
JaffaJust delete the PDFs themselves09:36
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puslingis /home/user/MyDocs/.documents  somewhere on the flash or on the internal memory ?09:41
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Jaffapusling: everything's internal by default09:44
puslingJaffa: n810 has internal memory and internal flash and external memory (mini sd)09:45
JaffaYes, I know.09:46
JaffaEverything's on the internal "memory" by default09:46
Jaffa  /media/mmc2 is the internal flash, and - by default - stores the factory shipped maps. /media/mmc1 is the external MiniSD slot; / is the internal "memory" and is the fs root.09:47
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puslingis there a way to tell maemo mapper where to store cached maps ?10:04
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puslinghah. symlinks.10:06
Stskeepsyeah, look in repo settings or something10:06
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rmrfchikpusling: there is a setting for each map type10:07
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puslingah. repo settings.10:07
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Proteoushahaha, someone bought a VPN device on ebay, after plugging it in he found that it autoconnected to the previous owners confidential servers10:10
puslingis maemo mapper reading the entire mapfile into memory ?10:10
rmrfchiksure no.10:11
Fatalpusling: I would like to ask you to think about it10:12
puslingI know it would be silly, but maemo mapper is just so much slower with a big map file.10:13
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RST38h(the author has just had amental breakdown)10:23
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Stskeepsstock market losses? :P10:23
RST38heverything together, although I guess that for this particular guy it was his personal stock losses =)10:24
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aquatixProteous: :)10:46
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slonopotamussomebody interrupted builder1 now11:01
X-Fadeslonopotamus: Let me check..11:02
slonopotamusX-Fade, funny log11:02
slonopotamuslooks like it didn't hang11:02
slonopotamusit just took almost a day to run logging tests11:02
slonopotamusman, that builder is 50 times slower then my n80011:03
qwerty12Your N800 isn't emulating an ARM processor.11:03
X-Fadeslonopotamus: OOM? perhaps?11:03
slonopotamusqwerty, well, that emulator doesn't run an 400mhz, uh?11:03
X-Fadeslonopotamus: I think Ed's advice is the better solution to this problem?11:04
qwerty12Maybe not, but qemu's arm emulation sucks balls.11:04
slonopotamusi will disable tests. the good point is that my tcl build actually works11:04
slonopotamusit's only extremely slow (on some tasks?) under qemu11:04
slonopotamusother tests have reasonable times11:05
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slonopotamusmaybe you should use arm devices for arm builders... :)11:06
slonopotamusshould i file a bugreport somewhere (qemu)?11:07
GeneralAntillesActually, that's not a terrible idea to look into.11:07
GeneralAntillesIs there $1000 lying around anywhere to pick up a cluster of Beagles? :P11:08
X-Fadeslonopotamus: We have actually discussed that at the summit ;)11:08
slonopotamusX-Fade, arm-based builders?11:08
X-Fadeslonopotamus: yes11:08
slonopotamusX-Fade, and?11:08
X-Fadeslonopotamus: Well, just that ;)11:08
slonopotamusX-Fade, oh :) i see. just discussed.11:08
GeneralAntillesAlternatively, get Mojo to give up some hours.11:09
slonopotamusMojo - ?11:09
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, where's the builder source?11:10
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: extras-cauldron on garage.11:10
slonopotamusat least now i have a weapon against bad builders.11:11
X-Fadeslonopotamus: We can always revoke your key ;)11:11
qwerty12X-Fade = evil11:12
X-Fadeslonopotamus: Nah, but we need to find a fix.11:12
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slonopotamusgood bug - always reproducible bug11:12
Kegetysis there some way to disable the "usb device not supported"/"no file system available" messages when plugging in usb devices?11:12
X-Fadeslonopotamus: Well, it is probably just slow. (somehow)11:13
slonopotamusi grant you my package so you can test whether that bug is fixed11:13
slonopotamusit is slow.11:13
X-Fadeslonopotamus: Did you try to build it inside scratchbox?11:13
slonopotamus15 hours for logging tests!11:13
slonopotamusit takes 15 minutes on n80011:13
slonopotamusi don't have scratchbox, sorry11:13
qwerty12Kegetys, - if you can recompile a kernel, try that. if not, I'll modify ke-recv for you11:14
slonopotamusmaybe we could ask someone to try11:14
X-Fadeslonopotamus: I don't have time to test it in a scratchbox now, very busy today. But I should be able to tomorrow.11:15
X-FadeIf somebody wants to help test. Please? :)11:15
slonopotamusX-Fade, ok. as far as i understand, sources will be there until someone reuploads the package.11:15
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slonopotamuslardman definitely doesn't want to test11:16
Kegetysqwerty12: well, the devices seem to work fine so there shouldn't be a problem there, just the pop-ups are a bit annoying11:16
X-Fadeslonopotamus: Yes. All we keep original sources for all 'failed' builds.11:16
X-Fadeslonopotamus: Yes, but lardman is a very lazy guy :D11:16
qwerty12I'd test but I need to reinstall grub11:17
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* slonopotamus is very lucky at (in? sorry, bad english) hitting ugly bugs11:18
slonopotamusand i hate that :)11:18
X-Fadeslonopotamus: You help in making it better.11:18
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RST38hMoo, X-Fade, qwerty11:19
qwerty12Hey RST38h11:20
X-FadeHi RST38h11:20
slonopotamus"RST38h"... how do you read that?11:20
qwerty12RST38h, While you are here, have you ever had success compiling your emutools under *nix?11:20
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* qwerty12 will take that as a no :/11:23
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RST38hqwerty: Yep11:25
RST38hqwerty: They compiled just fine for me. Is there any specific problem?11:25
RST38hslonopotamus: as an abbreviation11:25
qwerty12RST38h, Well, I saw no Makefile (yes, you all know I'm a n00b) so I merged it with emulib and used it's makefile to compile it. But I can't get all of it to compile :/11:26
RST38hWeird...No makefile? Lemme check11:27
RST38hYep. No makefile. It can only mean one thing: compile with gcc -o toolname -I. -I../EMULib toolname.c =)11:29
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qwerty12Ok, thanks, will try that :)11:29
RST38hAnd if there is a problem - let me know what the exact problem is11:29
RST38h[and I guess it is also a hint for me to release 'em with the correct makefile)11:29
macouteand once again, could you dig osso-default-icons package from your NIT?11:32
macouteor do you have it, or should i have it? my upgrade didnt finish because of that package11:32
slonopotamuswanna broken package? just ask me :) some weird bug with mysql:
slonopotamusyour builders do not like me11:33
RST38hit is the same for everyone11:34
RST38hIn your particular case, it looks like the parser generator has failed11:34
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lardmanderf: ping11:35
macouteis there even a place like for maemo? i havent found it at least...11:35
lardmanhi RST38h11:35
X-Fadeslonopotamus: That looks like a missing build dependency.11:35
macouteRST38h: thanks11:35
slonopotamushuh :)11:35
slonopotamusthat _looks_ like missing dependency11:35
macouteRST38h: and there should be every package for maemo?11:36
slonopotamushowever that isn't11:36
* lcuk throws a pig @ lardman11:36
lardmanand a BBQ?11:36
macouteRST38h: there is no osso-icons-default there :S11:36
macoutecould someone check if you have the package?11:37
qwerty12macoute, it's in passworded repo11:37
qwerty12how did you manage to remove it?11:37
macouteit was called osso-icons-default or osso-default-icons. id go with the first one11:37
macouteqwerty12: i didnt. i was upgrading11:37
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qwerty12Everyone has the package.11:40
qwerty12Who's going to be able to dpkg-repack it though?11:40
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macouteqwerty12: its not available as a .deb?11:40
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qwerty12It comes by default on each tablet11:41
macouteif you have downloaded it (or reinstall it) it should turn out to /var/cache/apt/archives, doesnt it+11:41
qwerty12You must have removed it or another repo is messing up your tablet11:41
macoutetheres no other repos :)11:41
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RST38hUS boffins say that the tendency of laptops to run hotter and hotter as performance increases is out of control - to the point where notebooks will be as hot as the surface of the sun by 2030 on current trends.12:50
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*** changes topic to "Sprint5 review meeting in #maemo-meeting 9/30 @ 19:00 UTC | Maemo Community Council | |"13:24
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* aquatix wonders why his tablet didn't update everything13:51
aquatixand why the updates have disappeared from the appmanager since13:52
aquatixand apt-get dist-upgrade has been broken for a while13:52
aquatixmeh :)13:52
RST38hit disabled your extras entry13:54
macoutenah, it really broke something with me as well13:54
macoutemy appmanager didnt see the updates at all13:54
macoutei used dist-upgrade13:54
RST38hwell, your fault13:56
aquatixRST38h: i re-enabled that already13:57
aquatixbut dist-upgrade fails here13:57
aquatixsays: osso-af-startup: Depends: osso-af-utils (>= 1.16-1) but it is not going to be installed13:57
aquatixand depends: osso-core-config13:58
aquatixweird stuff13:58
RST38hdon't use dist-upgrade13:58
aquatixi have osso-af-utils 1.1713:58
RST38hus app manager to upgrade your system.13:58
aquatixi did13:58
aquatixwith Update all13:58
aquatixbut it didn't update all13:58
aquatixand now doesn't see anything anymore13:58
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RST38hhow about apt-get upgrade ?13:59
Veggenbut the system *is* a bit fucked when the potential for fuckup is so large with a dist-upgrade.13:59
RST38hor, rather, apt-get update and then apt-get upgrade13:59
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RST38hVeggen: it is a non-standard distribution, so using these standard desktop tools is a bad idea14:00
RST38hUpdate the way Nokia tells youto14:00
VeggenRST38h: Well, yeah, but it's bad design from Nokias part not to be more careful :)14:00
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Veggengranted, the every-app-its-own-repository has not helped. At all.14:00
RST38husing all the standard linux framework has never been their goal14:01
VeggenNo, but it's still bad design :)14:02
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RST38hthey were simply adopting whatever linux they have got to an embedded devic14:02
Veggenmaking the device upgrading more foolproof *should* be a goal.14:02
RST38hwell, that is what you get when designign business suit for a pidgeon and sewing it out of the stuff you picked form a dumpster14:02
RST38hTheir initial upgrade method was "flash the whole firmware"14:03
aquatixapt-get upgrade doesn't have anything to install14:03
VeggenI know.14:03
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VeggenI've been there too :)14:03
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RST38haquatix: I have got an idea14:03
RST38haquatix: Your repo list is somehow fucked. Is it possible?14:03
VeggenSo it's better now, but still not good enough for my complete satisfaction.14:03
aquatixof course14:03
* aquatix looks at /etc/apt/sources.list14:04
RST38haquatix: Why not edit it ?14:04
aquatixno /etc/apt/sources.list?14:04
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Mekmost repos are in files in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/14:05
aquatixi wonder why the updates repository is set to diablo-2 :)14:07
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Mekbecause you update some stufF?14:07
* lcuk_work should never have removed vnc. dinnertimes are so boring14:07
aquatixyeah, i updated some stuff, and apparently it changed from diablo-1 to -214:08
aquatixwith -1 i see my updates again14:08
RST38h~curse local testing and build system14:08
RST38haquatix: One more problem resolved!14:09
* aquatix does an apt-get upgrade14:09
aquatixRST38h: yeah, thanks :)14:09
aquatixi didn't think it'd have changed the updates repository :/14:09
lcuk_workaquatix, thank you for getting freenode back up and running :P14:09
aquatixlcuk_work: you're welcome ;)14:09
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aquatixyay @ work wifi with 80KB/s14:11
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aquatixthere, updated :)14:20
aquatixthanks RST38h!14:20
* aquatix reboots14:21
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lcuk_workaquatix: stop breaking the internet14:25
aquatixwith great power...14:26
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lcuk_workcome long disconnect times14:26
lcuk_workshould i put my half eaten chicken and bacon club sandwich on ebay?  or more importantly, what reserve should i put on it14:27
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aquatixif you're able to teleport it here in the next few minutes, i'm willing to bid $114:28
aquatixthat's about 0.40 EUR anyway14:28
lcuk_workno, its now worth €0.39 now14:28
gomiamaquatix: more like 0.6 methinks14:28
lcuk_workoh, hang on €0.3814:28
aquatixgomiam: sorry, running joke ;)14:28
lcuk_workcrap! its like pokemon ;)14:28
gomiamoh, sorry14:29
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aquatixgomiam: i tend to wildly undervalue the dollar nowadays14:29
gomiam(actually, Yahoo says it's at 0,6973 right now)14:29
aquatixand sometimes i'm even spot-on ;)14:29
aquatixyeah, it's improved a bit14:29
gomiamaquatix: wildly undervalue the dollar? Is that actually possible?14:29
aquatix1 U.S. dollar = 0.696136443 Euros according to google14:30
gomiamthey're printing them out like they are going out of season14:30
aquatixwell, i tend to say things like, `hm, that gadget is $300 - that's like 40 EUR!'14:30
gomiam(see governmental rescue packages)14:30
aquatixheh, yeah14:30
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Veggenproblem is, there's still a good many people in US that believes that fixing the economy is not necessary.14:31
* aquatix reboots for the heck of it and puts his n810 on the charger14:31
* aquatix thinks fixing the US economy is not possible14:32
VeggenUS is not immune to financial troubles, and things could get much worse for the country later.14:32
aquatixit'll be bankrupt soonish14:32
* gomiam agrees with aquatix (throwing good money after bad and all that)14:32
Veggenaquatix: nah, but they'll have to actually start producing goods and selling stuff again.14:32
aquatixgomiam: not to mention the ginormous amount of loans the country has14:32
aquatixVeggen: fair enough14:32
lcuk_workof course it wont be bankrupt, they will simply be renationalised ;)14:32
X-FadeProblem is, if US goes, we all go.14:33
aquatixX-Fade: not sure abuot that14:33
RST38hThen let us go in style!14:33
aquatixit'll hurt for sure14:33
gomiamwho can be so stupid to lend money to someone with no income, no job, not anything?14:33
lcuk_workpower and money is in the east14:33
lcuk_work100%  agree about hurting14:33
aquatixbut i think asia and europe will do quite well14:33
RST38hNow, where is that doomsday weapon I have seen on Ebay?14:33
aquatixRST38h: my backyard, sorry14:33
X-Fadeaquatix: Our retirement funds have invested a lot in the us. If that goed, bye bye retirement etc etc.14:33
gomiamaquatix: not here in Spain we won't, we have our own self-cooked housing bubble14:33
aquatixX-Fade: yeah :/14:34
RST38haquatix: But surely, you will let me use it just once? =)14:34
aquatixRST38h: sure, just don't point at me ;)14:34
lcuk_worklocal economies will resurface and life will continue14:34
RST38hJust about every country in the world has a housing bubble right now. They have all got easy money from the us to make loans14:34
lcuk_workcommunities :)14:34
aquatixwe have damn expensive houses here too14:35
RST38haquatix: I secretly hope it is omnidirectional =)14:35
gomiamlcuk_work: yeah, they will, but it seems the term "free market" should be changed to "win market": my wins are mine, my loses are socialized.14:35
aquatixgomiam: spain is bad indeed; too many new houses while noone is interested14:35
aquatixRST38h: that's the point ;)14:35
lcuk_workgomiam: yer, it shouldnt be the case though, and i tihnk thats why use has vetoed (for now) its bailout14:35
aquatixRST38h: just wait till i've finished my hypership14:35
RST38haquatix: Niue? =)14:35
* aquatix wishes14:36
gomiamaquatix: the worst is that it was obvious even four years ago (but everybody laughed at me when I said it)14:36
aquatixRST38h: nah, i'm .nl14:36
RST38haquatix: Then just bomb the dams - and suddenly there is no expensive housing14:36
lcuk_workgomiam: people have been speculating about the end of the world forever14:36
gomiamRST38h: just like it happened in No-Orleans ;-)14:37
aquatixRST38h: including mine14:37
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aquatixRST38h: not a good idea ;)14:37
RST38hlcuk: Hey, you do not need the global end of the world, a local version will do you in just as good14:37
RST38hgomiam: New Orleans had no dams14:37
lcuk_workuh huh agreed14:37
gomiamlcuk_work: yes they have, but this has been ridiculously high for years. And now everybody whines.14:37
RST38hgomiam: I have been there a few years before it got offed14:37
gomiamRST38h: dams, levees, whatever keeps the water away D14:37
lcuk_workgomain, its the same everywhere - until it slaps you in the face its someone elses problem14:37
RST38hgomiam: the stuff it had would not hold a medium-sized puddle14:37
lcuk_workmuch like most US bank vaults14:38
aquatixhm, not that i really care, but the telepathy msn plugin doesn't work anymore now14:38
gomiamRST38h: ok, I'm not talking about the sturdity of the structures, but the results of their collapse ;-)14:38
aquatixnetwork error14:38
RST38haquatix: It is the first signed of the oncoming crisis14:38
lcuk_workwhat do you use telepathy  for14:38
aquatixRST38h: :)14:38
RST38haquatix: MSN will get bought by Huawei or something14:38
* RST38h has got a Huawei office next door14:39
aquatixlcuk_work: plugin for the IM stuff on my tablet14:39
aquatixso i can do other networks aside from xmpp14:39
RST38hIt is so amusing to board a corporate bus with 100 chinese...14:39
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lcuk_workfair enough14:39
RST38hIn the middle of Moscow.14:39
gomiamaquatix: I'm more a Pidgin fan.14:39
johnx_RST38h, microsoft will get bought by Huawei?14:39
gomiamNo need for gateways :-)14:39
RST38hjohnx: Do you prefer Huawei or Steve Jobs? =)14:39
aquatixgomiam: i like the way it integrates14:39
aquatixgomiam: no, no gateways14:40
aquatixit uses native protocols14:40
johnx_RST38h, ms has piles of liquid capital, IIRC14:40
aquatixeven uses pidgin's libpurple14:40
gomiamoh. Is telepathy something like libpurple?14:40
aquatixgomiam: through telepathy haze14:40
gomiamI didn't know that14:40
aquatixtelepathy is an abstraction layer14:40
lcuk_workjohnx_: ms's liquid capital are bottles of scotch in ballmers drawer14:40
RST38hjohnx: who cares, we are talking about the end of the world!14:40
gomiamok, ok. Anyway, since I always use pidgin on my other computers, I find it easier to keep with it (it's easy to carry configuration data too)14:41
aquatixlcuk_work: hm, maybe i *should* raid that office14:41
aquatixgomiam: fair enough14:41
johnx_RST38h, so in that case you'll be "rich" by owning cans of beans?14:41
lcuk_workanyway, must dash - cigs and tps reports await14:41
* lcuk_work groans14:41
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RST38hjohnx: something is telling me the gold will still sell....14:42
aquatixmeh, like cigarettes are more important than the end of the world14:42
aquatixreminds me, i should forfill my world domination before it's too late :/14:42
crashanddieJaffa, that interface is lickable, that's just so sexy14:43
johnx_RST38h, it depends on how *&$%ed everything is.14:43
gomiamaquatix: of course they are. Chain-smokers might not get to see the end of the world ;-)14:43
RST38hjohnx: also, on the bright side, all those Japanese otakus will finally get their dream14:43
RST38hjohnx: especially if Kim decides to nuke Tokyo in the closing act14:43
johnx_RST38h, Japan has been constantly living in a "the end of the world could be tomorrow" scenario14:43
RST38hjohnx: Given seismic activity and no resources, no doubt...14:44
johnx_RST38h, earthquaks, tsunamis, typhoons, food shortage, economic collapse have all been around the corner14:44
johnx_RST38h, it's business as usual in Japan...14:44
RST38hjohnx: basically, I do not expect too many problems east of the Estonian border14:44
gomiam(must be a really big corner)14:44
RST38hjohnx: all the way to US/Canada west coast =)14:45
johnx_RST38h, it could be a problem for Japanese banks to disentangle themselves from US banks, if things get worse14:45
RST38hwell, they will take a loss14:45
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RST38hCanon, Fuji, Panasonic, Sony will have to find different markets too14:46
johnx_heh...the yen is doing good though14:46
johnx_makes me happy14:46
RST38hUSD is actually rising lately14:47
johnx_the other thing is that if the West stops having disposable income it will hurt the Japanese electronics companies14:47
lardmanjohnx_: the japanese banks had some of the largest loans to Lehmanns14:47
johnx_lardman, yeah, shinsei is not too pleased with themselves right now14:47
aquatixjohnx_: myeah, but frankly i don't see everyone stopping buying phones and such anytime soon14:48
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aquatixit'll dwindle14:48
johnx_aquatix, will they buy expensive sony-stuff or cheap Chinese phones?14:48
* aquatix will buy sony-stuff14:48
RST38hexpensive sony stuff is still made in China14:48
aquatixonly less often :)14:48
RST38hAnd may get bought by Chinese in the end14:48
aquatixnot that i buy too often already anyway14:49
* lardman makes a break for food while the rain holds off14:49
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johnx_RST38h, and ford is made in Mexico, but the big part of the money flows into the US...14:49
RST38hjohnx: Ford is made everywhere14:49
RST38hjohnx: Especially considering that Mazda is Ford ;)14:49
johnx_RST38h, everywhere but the US...14:50
RST38hjohnx: Not sure, maybe14:50
RST38hjohnx: Here is it made near SpB14:50
johnx_RST38h, neither am I, but it sounded good14:50
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RST38hjohnx: Let's Ford avoid 60% import tax on foreign cars14:50
* johnx_ is off for a bit to pay bills, get some coffee14:50
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RST38hI guess, given the nature of this channel, the right question should be "How is Finalnd doing?" =)14:51
XTLGoing to hell14:52
RST38hAt least it will get a bit warmer there...14:53
johnx_nah, it's the barren wasteland version of hell15:00
RST38hohm the nordic version15:00
johnx_the question is "Where should I move?"15:00
RST38hWell, if 50% chance of skin cancer is ok with you15:00
aquatixhm, anyone know where i can get python2.5-terra (0>= 0.1.8-maemo1) ?15:02
aquatixminus that first 015:02
aquatixnow canola2 is not installabe15:02
johnx_aquatix, they're working on it. disable extras-devel and install beta915:02
Mekfor me canola2 is only not upgradable :)15:03
aquatixjohnx_: aight15:03
aquatixi'll wait then15:03
aquatixMek: yeah, i uninstalled to make room15:03
Stskeepsjohnx_: are hildon apps able to run outside hildon btw? like, how do they react?15:09
johnx_Stskeeps, they don't love it, but there's a lot of individual pieces of "hildon"15:09
johnx_without the custom window manager, they have no menu15:10
johnx_without the hildon gtk theme they don't look right15:10 is up and running now btw, with keys and one mirror15:11
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Stskeepsand i'm thinking to make "tablet specific" versions of some packages such as NM, like, network-manager-tablet which has Provides: network-manager so it doesn't conflict directly15:14
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aquatixdo you guys have adblock working with microb?15:22
RST38hit slows microb down though15:23
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AnunakinHi All!15:25
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zap_let's hope the new total-magic javascript interpreter from mozilla project will make adblock faster :)15:28
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RST38hAdBlock really has to be updated for Diablo15:29
RST38hSo far it has not been15:29
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crashanddieRST38h, yeah, I had the feeling it was making matters worse than anything else15:33
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aquatixodd, i installed all the updates, but uname -a still says i'm running 2.6.21-omap1 from Jul 16 (yes, i rebooted :)15:57
aquatixLinux Nokia-N810-23-14 kernel15:58
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crashanddieaquatix, even worse, I still have 2.6.21 from Jun 25th16:06
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derflardman|lunch: Pong.16:09
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* Jaffa grumbles at people moaning at him for being accurate when they've failed in things *they themselves* have said are essential.16:16
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CyorxampLo, have had N810Wimax (UK edition) on preorder from expansys for 2 months16:21
CyorxampOn phone to expansys now, and they say it'll never arrive :) lol16:21
ccookeCyorxamp: oh?16:21
CyorxampBUT! That a new Nokia tablet is about to be launched, on hold... getting details now16:22
JaffaYeah, right.16:23
ccookeJaffa: no, no. I can believe the "it'll never arrive" bit...16:23
JaffaWell, yes16:23
X-Fadeat expansys, sure.16:23
Cyorxampapparently 'wimax isn't popular in the UK' ... just had to educate the guy on that this is about to change16:24
CyorxampFreedom4 to be in 15 major cities by end of year, roaming turned on february, BT likely to use it for rural areas to complete 21CN16:24
CyorxampHe's like... 'oh'16:24
lcuk2god i hate warcraft16:24
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ccookelcuk2: don't play it, then?16:25
ccookeHas the n810WE shipped anywhere?16:26
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lcuk2ccooke i dont, but i hear about it all day every day \@/16:27
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ccookelcuk2: well, look on the bright side. You're not paying for it...16:28
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lcuk2in a way i am :)16:29
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ccookein the time you listen to the poor addicts?16:29
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CyorxampApparently the new Nokia tablet will have Wimax16:32
Cyorxampfinished for 6 months from now, on shelves in a year16:32
Stskeepsold news though16:32
Cyorxampwill target both UK and US markets16:32
X-FadeCyorxamp: Obviously the sales person at the other side is clueless.16:32
aquatixwonder when we get a tablet with LTE16:32
CyorxampApparently 4 (including me) have preordered this UK N810WE :P16:33
CyorxampFOUR! :(16:33
ccookeaquatix: Less Than or Equal?16:33
Cyorxamphe is seeing what he can do to 'aquire' one16:33
ccookeCyorxamp: not a surprise, to be honest16:33
aquatixI think LTE is going to be more widely spread than wimax16:33
lardmanaquatix: I think we'll get 3G before 4G16:33
aquatixccooke: long term evolution16:33
aquatixlardman: yeah, or that :)16:33
CyorxampOh I'm set for 3G with a HSDPA E51 phone, could go for a N810 right now16:33
aquatixccooke: 4G technique16:33
Cyorxampbut I want to be ready for Wimax, Wimax launches in this city late this year, early next16:33
aquatixCyorxamp: N810 is awesome as-is :)16:33
Cyorxamppeople need to wake the fuck up!16:34
ccookeCyorxamp: like it or not... there just isn't enough wimax in the UK to make people interested. So you have an absolutely tiny market for such devices, and the n810we is a tiny fraction of *that*...16:34
Cyorxampyes but there will be market, soon - in the works - ;)16:35
crashanddieI do believe wimax is going to be a big flop anyhow16:35
Cyorxampand I'm impatient :)16:35
CyorxampI think WiMax is going to be the final hit, WiMax + VDSL/Cable = Cheapr broadband for everyone/everywhere16:35
ccookeI do wonder if nokia will scrap the n810we entirely, though16:35
Cyorxampas well as VoIP for all16:35
crashanddiethe only way to get wimax widely accepted is by hitting hard on one occasion. It's not enough of a revolution, because at this point, from my contacts at ISPs and stuff, WiMax is not going to bring cheap wireless broadband. Because the infrastructure is going to be sooo expensive, and there are going to be amazing hickups16:36
aquatixwonder when they'll have a big wimax network here in the netherlands16:36
ccookeCyorxamp: It's not fast enough, it's not ubiquitous enough and (for voip) it can't do emergency calls.16:36
aquatixseems a company in belgium is planning to do a belgium-wide one16:36
crashanddiein other words, ISPs are going to have you pay premium price, and that's just not good enough16:36
X-Fadeaquatix: Well, we have it in Amsterdam. A bit. ;)16:37
aquatixX-Fade: yeah, a bit16:37
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CyorxampBT are planning a country wide one16:37
crashanddieThe only way to get WiMax going is by hitting during one single event, somewhere in the world. And for me, that's the 2012 olympics16:37
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crashanddieif they miss that, wimax is deadborn16:37
aquatixi think they should focus on LTE16:37
ccookeCyorxamp: and, six months or so after it's *working*, I'd expect to see dedicated wimax devices. But the first generation of users will mostly be laptops with cards.16:37
lardmanWiMAX vs LTS; is this an ISP vs Telco war too?16:38
Cyorxampbah! I did say I was impatient16:38
CyorxampTelco's are dead16:38
CyorxampBT is becoming a networking company, period.16:38
lardmannot if they can push LTE though16:38
Cyorxampthrough where?16:39
lardmanTelco as in mobile phones I was thinking16:39
aquatixlardman: hm, good point16:39
crashanddieThe average price we're going to pay for wimax is what... 50quid something for starters? Might go down to 30quid, but that's where it's going to stay. And telco + ISP have already squeezed a whole lot of budget out of families, budget which wasn't required 15 years ago. I don't know if 30 extra quid is going to cut it for the average family16:39
lardmanatm I'd have to pay ~£5/month for data16:40
lardmanso wimax would beat that, assuming it has coverage16:40
Cyorxampcrashanddie, in Milton Keynes its £13 ($25) a month for a 2mbps connection16:40
Cyorxampas cheap as ADSL16:40
X-Fadecrashanddie: Most people have one internet plan and a laptop. The internet plan can be replaced by WiMax and run on the laptop.16:40
AStormCyorxamp: w/o download limits? :P16:41
crashanddie15 years ago, you had one phone line. 30 quid a month. These days, the average family has 4 or 5 cell phones, + internet. That's an amazing budget to get people invest yet some more16:41
* lardman pays ~£20/month for broadband + phone line iirc16:41
CyorxampAStorm, exactly16:41
AStormwhat upload?16:41
CyorxampWimax is suffering from ANTI-HYPE16:41
CyorxampNothing more16:41
ccookeCyorxamp: ... wait, you didn't think BT were a network company? wow.16:41
lardmanCyorxamp: lots of hype but no delivery16:41
AStormwell, HSPA is better16:41
Cyorxampccooke, No I already know they are, My job is entirely dependant on 21CN16:41
AStormbetter range, better access16:41
lardmanI'm looking forward to HSPA16:41
AStormbut currently expensive (e.g. 25$ for 1GB data = outrage)16:42
Cyorxampwe already have HSPA here16:42
Cyorxampbut HSPA still needs a stupid sim card, wimax is just get the gear, get your username16:42
lardmanAStorm: hspa can also be done for ~£5/month16:42
aquatixCyorxamp: HSDPA?16:42
AStormlardman: not in this country (it's 60 PLN ;P)16:42
Cyorxampaquarius-, exactly16:43
lardmanAStorm: fair enough16:43
aquatixLTE basically is the successor to HSDPA16:43
Cyorxampso is Wimax :P16:43
AStormaquarius-: HSDPA is the download16:43
AStormHSUPA is the fast upload16:43
aquatixCyorxamp: technically ;)16:43
crashanddieCyorxamp, 2Mbit is BULLSHIT. Horsecrap. I used to pay 30euros (25quid) for 100Mbit download and 50Mbit upload. Plus I had amazing services. I don't care so much about the amount I can download, I just care for the service that comes with it. And when I say "I", I'm talking on behalf of general consumer joe16:43
AStormcombined, you get HSPA ;P16:43
aquatixAStorm: ah yeah :)16:43
Cyorxampcrashanddie, all I'm saying is there no silly £50 minimum attached to wimax - today16:44
CyorxampMy money is on a GSM and SIM free future16:44
crashanddieYeah, we'll see about that ;)16:44
CyorxampJust pluck broadband out of the air16:44
AStormwhat do you have against SIM?16:44
aquatixAStorm: i saw them both and as i see `HSDPA' advertised as UMTS upgrade, i thought it was plain HSDPA they are providing, but of course it's just two protocols16:44
ccookeCyorxamp: who pays and how?16:44
lardmanCyorxamp: you'd still need to pay an ISP though16:44
CyorxampAStorm, you have to take it with you, so you can only have 1 device using it16:45
AStormaquatix: because HSUPA is more expensive16:45
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AStormCyorxamp: ah that, indeed16:45
AStormbut then, you want a cellphone on you all the time anyway16:45
aquarius-Cyorxamp, AStorm: please be careful when using <Tab> completion16:45
ccookeCyorxamp: you get multiple sims on the same account.16:45
Cyorxampccooke, Freedom4 run the current wimax system in the UK, BT have their own plans for later, I think the Isle of Man run a system too16:45
AStormaquatix: heh, sorry16:45
aquarius-LOL, again :)16:46
AStormaquarius-: ^16:46
aquarius-i see :)16:46
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crashanddieActually, anyone like betting?16:46
aquatixAStorm: :P16:46
Cyorxampccooke, still need multiple stupid numbers tho - telephone numbers are OLD16:46
AStormit's XChat's fault for not having MRU tabcomplete16:46
ccookeyes, but how do you *pay*. What is the mechanism of tying a user to an ISP?16:46
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AStormccooke: login and pass16:46
ccookeCyorxamp: they're equivalent to MAC addresses, though ;-)16:46
Cyorxamppluck broadband out of the air with a username/password (like a wifi hotspot) and then get called using your SIP URI16:46
ccookeAStorm: Okay, then. Who owns the common infrastructure?16:46
AStormyour ISPs16:47
X-FadeENUM anyone? :)16:47
CyorxampYou have to bear in mind ENUM launches this week in the UK, and by 2011 there will no analogue phone lines16:47
aquatixfeh, analogue phone lines...16:47
* aquatix has voip at home16:47
aquatixover adsl16:47
AStormoh, it'll take some 10 more years for that to get into this country16:47
crashanddieuses exclusively SIP here16:47
ccookeAStorm: Collectively? As in: I want to connect to ISP foo, you want to connect to ISP bar. Who arbitrates where my connection/login details go to?16:47
CyorxampWiMax + VoIP = Death to normal GSM phones16:47
CyorxampAll hail the Nokia tablet with wimazx16:48
ccookeCyorxamp: you need to add location support there.16:48
johnx_heh...they'll still emulate analog phone lines for years at various points16:48
aquatixCyorxamp: and interoperability?16:48
ccookeotherwise there is *no* hope of you ever replacing a normal phone.16:48
aquatixi'd like to call my grandma now and then ;)16:48
Cyorxampaquarius-, wimax is a standard - revised many times, but finally finalised16:48
AStormCyorxamp: WiMax is local16:48
CyorxampWimax can roam16:48
Cyorxamplike GSM16:48
AStormto have global wimax, you need huge infrastructure16:48
AStormGSM has that already16:48
CyorxampIndeedy, just like GSM16:48
Cyorxampbollox to GSM16:48
johnx_the future is devices with multiple radios...16:49
crashanddiePeople who believe wimax is going to replace GSM in the near future are idiots16:49
AStormno, because that eats power16:49
johnx_AStorm, not when the radio is off...16:49
Cyorxampwell I'm ready for that too... my nokia can be HSDPA and Wimax ready :P16:49
RST38hafaik, what you are really interested in is the cell size16:49
AStormjohnx_: hmm, well ;P16:49
crashanddieAnd people who believe we're going to get decent coverage from WiMax in the near future are double that idiots16:49
RST38hand cell size is different for different GSM frequencies16:49
Cyorxampcrashanddie, not _near_ future, but eventually16:49
RST38hwimax cells are pretty small though, right?16:49
aquatixcrashanddie: indeed16:49
AStormRST38h: no, like, city-sized16:49
aquatixRST38h: no16:49
aquatixquite large even16:50
AStormthey're large if speed is low16:50
aquatixcompared to gsm16:50
AStormsmall if speed is high16:50
crashanddieCyorxamp, yeah, and eventually, we'll have a cancer-free world, and peace everywhere on earth16:50
aquatixcrashanddie: if humankind has died out ;)16:50
Cyorxampwell I have to go eat now16:50
aquatixCyorxamp: enjoy16:50
Cyorxampwe'll wait and see :)16:50
RST38hanimals and plants also have cancers16:50
AStormcancer-free? you can't have that due to biology16:50
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aquatixwimax eats a lot more battery than gsm16:50
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RST38hAStorm: I think they call humanity a cancer16:51
johnx_aquatix, gsm base with on-demand wimax?16:51
ccookeAStorm: you can to within experimental error. You just kill everyone before they reach about 25...16:51
RST38hSomething I can't really argue against...16:51
AStormaquatix: due to low frequency used, more power is needed16:51
AStormccooke: wrong! :>16:51
aquatixccooke: ooh, children of the corn :)16:51
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ccookeAStorm: well, go on and tell me why :-)16:51
johnx_AStorm, wimax is higher frequency than most gsm bands...16:52
AStormccooke: because you still have inherited ones16:52
AStormjohnx_: wasn't it 700 MHz?16:52
aquatixccooke: however, even kids get cancer, leukemia and such :(16:52
AStormwhere GSM is 900 lowest?16:52
ccookeaquatix: "within experimental error", you may note ;-)16:52
johnx_AStorm, 2.4GHz, 2.5Ghz and 3.5GHz, IIRC16:52
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AStormjohnx_: hmm16:52
johnx_the 700MHz band is something else...16:52
RST38hGSM starts at 450MHz16:52
AStormah, so it's microwave16:52
aquatixThere is no uniform global licensed spectrum for WiMAX, although the WiMAX Forum has published three licensed spectrum profiles: 2.3 GHz, 2.5 GHz and 3.5 GHz16:52
johnx_RST38h, who uses 450MHz?16:53
AStormthus the high energy needed ;P16:53
aquatix^ wikipedia16:53
RST38hjohnx: Siberia16:53
AStormit's absorbed by water16:53
RST38hjohnx: Not a lot of operators but some16:53
ccookeAStorm: What do you mean by "inheritable cancer"?16:53
AStormccooke: there are many, heh16:53
johnx_RST38h, I'm just thinking of the "big 4" in "quadband gsm"16:53
ccookeI've heard of *infectious* cancer, which is a nasty little thought, but not ineritable16:53
AStormI mean, genetic diseases predisposing to juvenile cancers, use the damn google ;P16:53
crashanddiegod damn it, I've been trying to find a word for nearly 3 minutes16:53
aquatixcrashanddie: which?16:54
Stskeepsjohnx_: you found some glorious solution to gksu/gksudo and on screen keyboards yet?16:54
ccookeAStorm: ahhh! Now that I know about.16:54
crashanddieaquatix, heh...16:54
RST38hjohnx: Those are 850, 900, 1800, 190016:54
crashanddieaquatix, a world that can never exist16:54
AStormand in EU, 900 is used16:54
RST38hjohnx: But when you need REALLY big cells, you have to go with 45016:54
crashanddieaquatix, cheers xD16:54
aquatixutopia is an ideal world16:54
AStormRST38h: but no phones support it, so no one does that16:54
RST38hAStorm: There are phones that support it16:55
johnx_Stskeeps, no such luck16:55
crashanddiewell, it's not relevant anymore, now16:55
Stskeepsjohnx_: alright16:55
RST38hAStorm: You probably won't like using one, but they exist16:55
RST38hno, just dumb16:55
RST38ha moment16:56
AStorm(anyway, cells here don't support 450 MHz)16:56
Stskeepsjohnx_: i'm thinking to try deblet on myself as i'm not satisfied with diablo :P16:56
Stskeepsand see what problems arise16:56
AStormpity you can't have 3G+ over bluetooth really16:57
AStormBT is slow ;P16:57
RST38hAStorm: As I said, they are deployed where you can't place too many transceivers16:57
AStorm== nowhere16:57
johnx_AStorm, isn't BT2+EDR fast enough to not be a bottleneck?16:57
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AStormhmm, well, does it do 15 Mbit?16:58
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AStormRST38h: these are for special applications17:00
AStormI've yet to see a 450 MHz cell in Europe17:00
RST38hAStorm: But long distance cell service in the tundra IS a special application don't you think?17:00
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AStormyes :>17:01
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ShadowJKIt's a long time since I saw a 450MHz cellphone :)17:02
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AStormhmmh, my ISPs DNS server just died17:05
X-FadeAStorm: Opendns?17:05
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AStormnah, DNS is alive ;P17:08
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aquatixRST38h: better get iridium for that ;)17:11
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AStormopera dns caching... :/17:15
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RST38hHe said that so far, in the eyes of the world, the pirates had been misunderstood. We dont consider ourselves sea bandits, he said. We consider sea bandits those who illegally fish in our seas and dump waste in our seas and carry weapons in our seas. We are simply patrolling our seas. Think of us like a coast guard.17:20
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str8edgewhat's the best way to gain root access on an 810 w/diablo17:24
StsN800install rootsh from extras17:25
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Woolly-Workhey folks17:33
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aquatixhi Woolly-Work17:35
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Woolly-Workhow's everyone today?17:36
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Jaffaandre___: got your #2677 updates, want to share what NB#83819 says? ;-)17:37
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andre___Jaffa, it says "exactly the other way round is a bug" :-)17:38
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andre___pressing esc should bring back from fullscreen to normal view, and not close the window17:39
JaffaWell, that's just bollocks :)17:39
andre___sure :-)17:39
JaffaOr, is the "UI Specification" on the side of insanity? ;-)17:39
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andre___Jaffa, I often have the feeling that it is. :-P17:40
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Woolly-Workanyone using X forwarding with scratchbox?17:41
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andre___Jaffa, sorry for behaving supersecret - I've posted the content now in 267717:42
* Jaffa prepares a rant :)17:43
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RST38handre: The pressing esc thing is kind of senseless17:54
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RST38hAfter all there is a separate button to switch between window and full screen17:54
andre___RST38h, i know that button exists. but if you press Esc you'd expect the window to close. At least I do :)17:55
* aquatix would expect the window to close17:55
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aquatixand the main window to remain as-is, like in the bug comment17:55
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RST38handre: Actually I do close the window on ESC =)17:56
RST38hBut I do not think the main window should remain as is17:56
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JaffaRST38h: yes, agreed - we've got a fullscreen toggle button, there's no need to dual-purpose escape.17:58
RST38handre: I think the problem here is that windows inside an app are allowed to have different window/fullscreen status17:58
RST38handre: In fact, when you press FullScreen button, all the app windows should switch to full screen, retaining relative order17:58
RST38hThen, closing the topmost window with ESC will reveal the one below it, without changing fullscreen to window17:59
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X-FadeGeneralAntilles: ping18:05
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Stskeepsqwerty12: you know much about wlan-cal?19:23
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qwerty12Stskeeps, not much19:23
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Stskeepsi'm just wondering why my in-deblet wlan-call fails.. it does have all the stuff needed19:24
qwerty12Are you running it from initfs chroot?19:25
yacoobupdated microb displays tiddlywiki properly19:27
yacoobthat's a great thing.19:27
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Stskeepsqwerty12: yeah19:31
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moontigerwhats tiddlywiki?19:45
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qwerty12Stskeeps, does debian play with /dev/mtd1 in any way?19:46
Stskeepsqwerty12: not in any way at all19:46
Stskeepsthere's ofcourse the obscure fsck bug i had with udev and rootfs..19:47
Stskeepswhich may apply to mtd1 too19:47
* Stskeeps straces dsme19:47
qwerty12how come you are trying to run wlan-cal now?19:47
Stskeepsa hunch regarding the fact that the signal strengths and so on are low19:48
Stskeepsit's because gain and shit isn't set19:48
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qwerty12Is cx3110x in memory?19:49
Stskeepsinsmod'ed yeah19:49
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Stskeepscal-tool gives errors too19:49
yacoobmoontiger, - self-contained, js-based wiki19:49
qwerty12Stskeeps, sounds like generic cal error then. Do you have libcal in /usr/lib/dsme (something like that)19:50
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* yacoob wants gears for new microb19:50
Stskeepsfound problem19:52
moontigerinteresting thnx :)19:53
qwerty12yacoob, scratchbox :P19:53
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yacoobqwerty12, yeah, I just can't bring myself to do it, I find whining much much easier 8)19:56
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qwerty12hehe, I'd offer but ndiswrapper is pissing me off the point that I'm actually, honestly enjoying using vista19:56
Mouseythat's it. i'm convinced.19:57
* Mousey switches to windows19:57
aquatixqwerty12: get decent hardware? ;)19:58
johnx_qwerty12, aaah memories of the time when I bought cheap hardware and then tried to make it work with linux19:58
infobotjohnx_ meant: qwerty12, aaah memories of the years when I bought cheap hardware and then tried to make it work with linux19:58
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qwerty12aquatix, can't be bothered in all honesty. I actually like this wireless stick. I'm more annoyed that the ti wlan oss driver doesn't support my stick despite having same chipset19:59
qwerty12johnx_, :)19:59
* qwerty12 is a cheap shit. I admit.19:59
johnx_qwerty12, I used to be, until finally my time > my money20:00
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johnx_give it a couple years, it'll happen to you, too :)20:00
* aquatix runs to the store for some additional rice20:00
qwerty12Hehe, tonight, I'm worrying about whether to get chicken wings or a burger :P20:00
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aquatixdamn stuff is all gone and i'm hungry20:00
johnx_aquatix, you need to buy bigger bags :)20:01
qwerty12Lol, come East London and ask any of us Asians here :P20:02
* qwerty12 parents keep a large tub of rice under the stairs :P20:02
qwerty12Shame I don't like rice >.<20:02
johnx_I've got 10kg next to me right now :)20:02
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johnx_damn good thing I don't mind rice :)20:03
Stskeepsjohnx_: think i've solved the wlan MAC problem + the signal strength stuff now :)20:03
johnx_Stskeeps, woo!20:03
macoutejohnx_: ill back up your formula, when my time > my money, price of my hw > price of the cheapest hw :)20:03
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johnx_Stskeeps, ah, I'll poke at hildon-input-method in sawfish. I have some time right now :)20:04
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johnx_macoute, actually it's often not much more expensive. Sometimes a $12 bt dongle instead of an $8 bt dongle. It just means research before buying :)20:05
macoutethats true20:09
macouteand its kinda sad too :) it was and is fun to make a useless piece of shit turn out almost as good as 2 times more expensive dongle :)20:10
johnx_right, but now when I do that I make sure it's on purpose :)20:11
johnx_"this might not work but it will be fun to mess with" vs "I need this to work NOW!"20:11
johnx_my n800 is the latter and my old zaurus is the former :)20:12
aquatixjohnx_: they run out eventually anyway20:17
johnx_aquatix, I guess I don't eat enough :)20:17
Stskeepsjohnx_: btw, wget, apt-key add repo.key, and change repo in /etc/apt/sources.list.d/deblet.list (i think) to instead20:17
aquatixjohnx_: :)20:18
johnx_Stskeeps, will do20:18
melmothanybody knows how to make the virtual keyboard (if its a n800, or if the real keyboard is not out) appear in gtk ?20:18
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Luriammmm zaurus20:21
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Luriamaybe after the sunray and qube, ill find something to do with that20:21
johnx_Luria, nice formfactor...but not quite fast enough :/20:21
Luriai know, my 5600 is over there20:22
johnx_actually, I want to put my 5500 somewhere as a light webserver or something20:22
Luriasomething wrong with the charging circuit20:22
johnx_sad :(20:22
Luriahow many light LAMPs do geeks need20:22
johnx_my 5500's battery is shot. it can't be much else20:23
aquatixLuria: the more the merrier20:24
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Stskeepsjohnx_: package updates in repo now, so just update and apt-get dist-upgrade to get it .. if it complains about update-rc.d, rm /etc/init.d/tablet-wireless20:24
LuriaProducts evolve until they can play mp3s, send email, and  run linux. then they die and become light web servers.20:24
LuriaThen the page gets /.'ed.20:25
johnx_Luria, it's the main sequence of gadgets :)20:27
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Luriathere's no nx client for maemo, right?20:29
johnx_I thought there was at some point20:30
johnx_I've seen it for years and never once actually got it working on anything :/20:30
Luriai wish nx were a bit more oss friendly for porting sake20:30
Luriasad that my favorite remote protocols are rdp and nx20:31
yacoobnx is open, isn't it?20:31
yacoobbesides, it's just compressed X...?20:31
Luriacompressed x over ssh20:32
Luriathere arent any good free clients20:32
Luriafreenx is a fine server tho20:32
Stskeepsokay, network-manager is a bit disturbd20:33
rm_youjohnx_: ping :)20:33
rm_youX-Fade: ping20:33
Stskeepsit's showing me (after a reboot), combined local APs and uni ones (i'm not at uni..)20:33
johnx_rm_you, poke!20:33
rm_youjohnx_: ^_^20:33
johnx_rm_you, just preordered a pandora :)20:33
rm_youI haven't been working much so I can't afford gadgets >_>20:34
* lcuk drools in the wrong chan20:34
johnx_rm_you, It's technically a combined early/late birthday present from a lot of people :)20:34
rm_youyou're going to be back for XMas, yes?20:35
johnx_rm_you, yup. I'll let you see it. :)20:35
rm_youmore interested in hanging out in general, it's been too long20:35
johnx_it'll be nice to be back *sighs*20:36
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ion_cu_vacaanyone using soft pover off with the new os update?20:47
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GeneralAntillesX-Fade, pong.21:03
GeneralAntillesion_cu_vaca, still broken.21:03
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Maceritdebian or whatever they call it is a little better now21:07
Macerstill wish it had bt support21:07
Macerwell.. bt phone support21:07
Stskeepsit does, if you hack it a bit :P21:07
Stskeepslook in deblet hack challenges21:07
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Stskeepswvdial is broken so it complicates stuff on armel21:08
johnx_do we really need wvdial?21:08
crashanddieX-Fade, still around mate?21:09
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Stskeepsjohnx_: most GUIs use it21:10
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johnx_Stskeeps, ah, I thought it was a real blocker, not just an ease of use thing21:11
Stskeepsit is a wrapper really21:11
Macerhow do i get rid of that dock on the left?21:11
Macerthat thing seems rather pointless and takes up too much space21:12
Stskeepswhich env are you on?21:12
johnx_tap+hold to move it21:12
Stskeepsokay, that's the old version :P21:12
johnx_should pop up a menu with options21:12
Maceroh man21:12
Maceryou kidding me? :)21:12
Stskeepswas it a tar.gz? :P21:12
Maceri just finished installing it heh21:12
johnx_oh noes!21:12
Stskeepsyup, old version21:12
johnx_yeah, I did that a long time ago21:12
Macerwell.. i didn't see the new version on the site21:12
StskeepsMacer: i'd wait some days, the new installer is a lot better :P21:13
johnx_Macer, play for now but don't get attached :)21:13
Maceri installed it on a 4G sd i had lying around21:13
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ion_cu_vacaGeneralAntilles, when in soft poweroff, my led blinks, any idea why?21:14
GeneralAntillesion_cu_vaca, check the Display settings in control panel.21:14
Macerwhere are you guys keeping the newer stuff?21:14
ion_cu_vacaall the checkboxes are unchecked21:14
Macerinternet tablet kind of sends  you to your old site21:14
ion_cu_vacaand still blinks21:14
GeneralAntillesion_cu_vaca, I don't know.21:15
GeneralAntillesSoft poweroff is broken.21:15
StskeepsMacer: trac.tspre.org21:15
Maceronce the bt phone stuff works then this will be perfect21:15
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Macerdid you guys ever figure out how to get that address bar stuff in epiphany turned off?21:15
johnx_Macer, yeah, switched to midori :)21:16
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Maceri must be on last year's stuff huh? :)21:16
Macerwhat engine does midori use?21:16
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Macerepiphany worked well with my zimbra server21:17
johnx_nah, just a couple months ago. but Stskeeps has been doing insane amounts of work on this21:17
johnx_well, there's ff3 as well aka iceweasel21:17
Macercould do anything on it... the browser osso has doesn't work well21:17
Macerit is awesome21:17
Maceri wish i had an n800 for the qwerty21:17
Macern810 i mean21:18
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Maceri was going to buy one but flinched because there wasn't anything that worked with my zimbra server.. it would always render wrong21:18
johnx_in microb?21:18
johnx_you should try it after the latest update. people have reported improvements21:19
GeneralAntillesMicroB is always improving.21:19
GeneralAntillesSo talking about it from 8 months ago is about as un-useful as it gets.21:19
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* Luria is looking forward to ff3 on pandora21:19
* Stskeeps just managed to kill his buildbox, lovely21:20
GeneralAntillesLuria, so it can run like shit?21:20
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GeneralAntillesFF3 is already on the Beagle.21:20
GeneralAntillesGuess what?21:20
GeneralAntillesIt runs like shit.21:20
Macerwasn't the whole point of the last firmware update that you don't have to update the firmware anymore?21:20
Macerall updates were supposed to be on the fly21:20
GeneralAntillesMacer, uh, they are. . . .21:20
Luriamicrob is no wonder of the world21:20
Luriareally, i checked civ4.21:21
Macerthen i am running the latest microb and it does not render zimbra correctly21:21
GeneralAntillesLuria, it's a helluva lot faster than FF3 on the same hardware.21:21
GeneralAntillesMacer, 4.2008.36-5?21:21
GeneralAntillesand have you bothered filing a bug?21:21
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Luriaright, but microb on omap 2 vs. ff3 on omap 3?21:21
Macernot really.. i'd rather use debian ... sts and johnx have done great work21:22
johnx_GeneralAntilles, are you running angstrom on that? want to try midori 0.21 for me?21:22
Stskeepsstill a lot to go:P21:22
GeneralAntillesLuria, FF3 is still slow.21:22
GeneralAntillesjohnx_, I'm still in trashed-mode at the moment.21:22
Maceronce the bt phone dun works it would be perfect21:22
johnx_ff3 is too memory hungry21:22
Macerff3 is a pig21:22
johnx_Macer, it already does if you're willing to meddle with the command line, or so I would assume21:22
Luriai find it ok on some crappy systems. better than ff2.21:23
Maceri tried that for quite a while but that was with beta3 also21:23
Maceri was able to bind them.. but the actual dialing part was a pain21:23
GeneralAntillesjott, ping.21:23
Macerthere was something missing.. can't remember what it was.. i believe the network interface for the bt dun stuff21:23
johnx_Luria, how much memory do those systems have? 256MB and swap makes all the difference from 128MB21:23
zapsoo, are there any more PSU martyrs out there?21:23
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zapor I'm the only one :)21:24
Luria128 with swap21:24
Luriabut no crazy 200 tab sessions like my xp box :-)21:24
johnx_Luria, fast swap would be the difference21:24
Luria5400rpm ata is fast?21:25
inzLuria, depends on what you compare it with21:25
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johnx_Luria, yes, compared to SD cards. Also a fast processor makes up a lot of the difference21:26
GeneralAntillesandre___, oh hell, Jaffa shot some holes in that plan. . . .21:29
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andre___what plan?21:31
* andre___ is too lazy to read the backlog21:31
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GeneralAntillesandre___, the versioning thread on -community21:35
MacerStskeeps - how is deblet with bt keyboard support?21:35
StskeepsMacer: haven't tried21:35
Macerwould be even more awesome if it worked with my su8w :)21:35
Macerah. after i install the newest ver then i'll try mine out21:35
Stskeepsit's probably possible since su-8w keymaps are in deblet21:36
robinkWhen Application Manager complains "Not enough memory in target location", what is it referring to?21:36
Macerah.. it would be nice to map the special keys21:36
robinkThe root filesystem or /media/mmc2?21:36
johnx_Macer, none of the bt stuff will work quite the way it does on os2008. it will be closer to the way it works in debian on the desktop21:36
Macerthe ones you would use on an n9521:36
Maceri never really used much bt stuff in debian21:36
Macernever really had a reason to.. never had a desktop with bt nor needed it21:37
robinkOh, the root filesystem21:37
Macerbut i'll try it out once i re-install the newer ver21:37
StskeepsMacer: you bored and want to try out the upcoming new version? :P21:38
andre___GeneralAntilles, 4.1, 4.1+1 (=current 4.1.1), 4.1.1 (=current 4.1.2). but even that wouldn't solve the sorting issue. i love unsolvable problems :-P21:38
Macersure if you have a place to download it21:38
Macerif you guys don't mind i was going to host your stuff in a little bit21:38
Stskeepssure, sec21:38
StskeepsMacer: if you want to provide rsync+ssh and a apache virtual host our mirror infrastructure is already up21:39
StskeepsMacer: did you install Deblet before? if so, remove the deblet repo from application manager21:39
Macerno.. i just used the bz2 from beta 3 on a fresh 4G21:40
Maceri installed it with the installer a while ago when you were working on it21:40
StskeepsMacer: if you use diablo21:40
Stskeepsyeah, check the deblet repo is gone, we switched21:40
Macerok.. i'll download it in a minute21:40
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Stskeepsand verify the deblet-installer package is 2.something21:42
Stskeepsand install nit-env-lxde is prolly your best shot21:42
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Maceri'm wiping the beta3 now21:48
X-Fadecrashanddie: yes21:51
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Sorry, was away now ;)21:51
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Macerunable to install deblet-installer application packages missing: zenity roxterm21:53
Stskeepsoh, right21:53
Stskeepslemme just include those21:53
JaffaGeneralAntilles: hopefully we can come up with a version strategy which works - maybe even Nokia telling us what SSU updates they're planning *cough*21:53
GeneralAntillesJaffa, I doubt they know themselves.21:53
Maceri don't have a rep with zenity or roxterm :)21:54
JaffaGeneralAntilles: SSU2 seemed to have been planned with the whole "oh, this was rushed, but the second one'll have sources & stuff; honest!"21:56
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Maceryou going to add those pkgs to your rep Stskeeps ?21:57
StskeepsMacer: yeah, working on it21:57
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jottGeneralAntilles: pong.21:58
GeneralAntillesDamnit, jott, I just closed that tab. :P21:59
StskeepsMacer: added, use .install file again and make sure it updates deblet repo with components: main user21:59
Stskeeps(you'll know if it doesn't :P)22:00
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jottGeneralAntilles: oooh! now see nokia legal for slapping the bitch out of flash support etc :)22:01
GeneralAntillesLet 'em try.22:02
Macerwell.. it installed something in utilities22:02
GeneralAntillesHonestly, though, I bet we can fetch the proprietary stuff from tableteer.22:02
Maceradded a bootmenu setup huh? :)22:03
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: is easy22:03
Maceralready have the bootmenu set up so i'll skip that.. although i'm tempted to mess with it22:03
GeneralAntillesjott, something that might be interesting to push.22:03
StskeepsMacer: yeah, - is it my bootmenu patches?22:03
Stskeepsas in, the one you have already22:03
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Maceri need a patch for the bootmenu?22:04
Macerwhat does it patch?22:04
jottGeneralAntilles: yeah main problem is to cherry-pick proprietary stuff. but the idea itself seems good.22:04
jottok. brb.22:04
StskeepsMacer: basically, install bootmenu from the utilities if you want to use deblet - the reason is because we use some additional features needed to make deblet boot well, and support boot menu items (in /etc/bootmenu.d) that are flashed to the initfs upon refresh_bootmenu.d  , so you don't have to handmake your bootmenu.conf22:05
Macerwow... lots of envs to choose from22:05
Stskeepsyeah, use -lxde for now22:06
Stskeepsthe others i havent tested after the makeover22:06
GeneralAntilles-> #maemo-meeting22:06
Macerwhich bootmenu options did you change for it to boot well?22:06
GeneralAntillesetrunko :P22:06
StskeepsMacer: i've added support so OS's can subvert the initfs fuckiness totally (excuse my language), allow for booting OS'es in a file, etc22:07
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: is as usual okay to listen in?22:07
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, #maemo-meeting is open. ;)22:07
X-FadeStskeeps: Sure. It is public ;)22:07
Macerah... ok. i'll run the bootmenu first then work on the install... i'll letyou know how it goes22:07
X-FadeStskeeps: And a log will be posted.22:07
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Stskeepscall it morbid curiosity, or something ;)22:08
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GeneralAntillesHey, timsamoff!22:08
GeneralAntilles-> #maemo-meeting22:08
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Maceris the bootmenu supposed to be run after the install?22:11
Stskeepsit can be either really22:11
Maceri just ran it and it wiped my bootmenu config and i don't have the ability to boot from my internal card anymore22:11
JaffaOh, is that tonight? <sigh/>22:11
Macerblk0p2 is what i usually use22:11
StskeepsMacer: sec22:11
Stskeepsread my post about .items22:12
Stskeepsand set up one for your internal card22:12
Stskeeps(don't use _LINUXRC there)22:12
Stskeepsand then run refresh_bootmenu.d22:13
StskeepsMacer: and probably needs to be noatime,rw for maemo if it's so22:13
StskeepsMacer: when deblet is installed, a Deblet item will be added, for instance22:14
Macerah ok22:14
* robink had to uninstall a bunch of stuff to install the OS2008 update.22:17
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Macerok.. have the menu now22:27
Macergoing to install the actual deblet in a sec22:27
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Macerit just retrieved packages and is trying to install now... do you keep the term for debugging purposes?22:31
Stskeepsyes, and some debconf questions22:31
Stskeepscos not all people want to install GTK for the graphical debconf22:32
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Macerah.. i see.. i just used the gtk one.. figured using a console for the stuff would be bothersome22:32
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Stskeepsit's not that bad22:32
Stskeepsbut uhm, got a n810 or a n800?22:33
Stskeepscos i don't know if it's possible to use the on screen keyboard in the GTK one22:33
Stskeepsdon't hang me up on that though22:33
Stskeepsyou'll find out i guess22:33
Stskeepsi use the console one cos its just easier :P22:34
lardmanderf: hey, how's the toolchain working?22:34
derflardman: Haven't tried it yet. I'm at work.22:34
lardmanderf: ah, timezones :)22:34
Macerwell... i'll let you know if it works.. if it doesn't then i'll go ahead and try again with the ncurses stuff22:34
derflardman: I was at work until almost 2 AM this morning, timezones have little to do with it.22:35
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Macerroxterm is nice to have in maemo tho22:35
lardmanderf: ouch22:35
Macerkind of nice the installer installs it22:36
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robinkThe system update broke my N810.22:37
aquatixrobink: in what way?22:38
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robinkaquatix: Network config won't launch, hildon doesn't recognise the keyboard22:39
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GeneralAntillesapt-get -f install22:40
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GeneralAntillesand maybe dpkg --configure -a22:40
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robinkGeneralAntilles: apt-get -f install seems to be doing that.22:41
johnx_gah, do I have *any* sd cards without bad blocks?!22:43
aquatixjohnx_: buy some decent brand? or be a little more kind to the poor things ;)22:43
johnx_testing linux distros and being kind are kind of mutually exclusive22:43
RST38hmoo all22:44
johnx_but yeah, I guess I should figure out a decent brand22:44
aquatixmoo robink22:44
aquatixgah, tab error22:44
johnx_m00f RST38h22:44
aquatixmoo RST38h22:44
aquatixjohnx_: sandisk serves me fine22:44
RST38hhow are things in the maemoland?22:44
johnx_aquatix, see, that's the thing. sandisk is the only type of card I've had the completely died on me.22:44
aquatixha :)22:45
aquatixtranscend maybe?22:45
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johnx_and they've (sandisk) historically worked poorly with the zaurus22:45
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* johnx_ puts his 2gb card through a badblocks test22:46
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RST38hpoor Sun Microsystems at $7.60/share... and to add insult to the injury, its ticker is JAVA :)23:06
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aquatixRST38h: they did that on purpose even23:10
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RST38haquatix: poor self mutilating things...23:19
RST38hnot as bad as HPaq merge of course but still23:20
RST38hsleep time.23:21
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aquatix* RST38h has quit, machine has gone to sleep23:28
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StskeepsGeneralAntilles: regarding the whole open source of things discussion - atleast i've used a lot of nokia sources for working out how the device works for deblet and devel purposes23:46
Stskeepsit's always nice being able to open the box and see what drives the machinery to develop better for the device23:47
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, you want to elaborate a bit on that and toss it on the wiki form Quim?23:47
infobotGeneralAntilles meant: Stskeeps, you want to elaborate a bit on that and toss it on the wiki for Quim?23:47
StskeepsGeneralAntilles: will think about it.. but one of the big research things these days is that users have easier understanding how their systems work and use them if they can open it up and alter to their behaviour23:48
Stskeeps+making it easier for users23:48
GeneralAntillesStskeeps, having concrete examples is going to be _really_ useful23:48
Stskeepsyeah, probably :P23:49
GeneralAntillesSo documenting your example isn't just a "feel good" thing.23:49
Stskeepsbootmenu is probably the most wide use of the fact the OS is "open source" though23:49
Stskeepsrotation support23:49
Stskeeps.. advanced backlight23:50
GeneralAntillesAdvanced Backlight isn't an example of that23:50
GeneralAntillesit's an example of exactly why the closed components hinder development.23:50
GeneralAntillesShowing Nokia management the cool things people do with the open source stuff, and exactly how much money those cool things could make them. . . . ;)23:50
Stskeepsi guess nokia is a bit in a interesting place - they're both OS and hardware provider23:52
johnx_similar situation to apple really23:52
Stskeeps.. for my own sake, i think some of the deblet things might be interesting and they're definately based on the OSS things from maemo :P23:52
JaffaGeneralAntilles: the trouble is, open sourcing stuff like the App Manager doesn't help when the plans that the corporate sponsor is doing with it are closed.23:52
JaffaWho's going to hack on it without knowing the patches will be accepted?23:53
GeneralAntillesJaffa, yeah, true enough.23:53
X-FadeJaffa: Next time: bring that up during the meeting ;)23:53
JaffaSo without open development, open code's almost useless23:53
JaffaX-Fade: family got the better of me ;-)23:53
X-FadeJaffa: That is a task, you know.23:53
Jaffa"Open development"?23:53
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GeneralAntillesThe following error was encountered:23:54
GeneralAntillesZero Sized Reply23:54
GeneralAntillesThat's new.23:54
JaffaX-Fade: I'll have a look at Package_Categories tomorrow, and start contributing to the talk page23:54
X-FadeJaffa: Great! I will join you there ;)23:55
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GeneralAntillesAfter fighting with categories last night with jott, I'm way ready to help push that one.23:55
Stskeepsare there actually people using Mamona, btw?23:55
Stskeepslike, actively?23:55
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GeneralAntillesStskeeps, not many.23:56
GeneralAntillesIt only recently got to the point of usable.23:56
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johnx_I might look at it...I have an on-again off-again love affair with openembedded23:56
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Stskeepsthey've done a shitload of interesting stuff tablet hacking wise, but i'm not sure they at all target the .. user23:56
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johnx_Stskeeps, looks like they're working on infrastructure first23:56
GeneralAntillesrtcomm beta is moving to Extras-devel?23:57
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Yes, I'm working with those guys to get it in there.23:57
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: No convincing needed btw.23:57
GeneralAntillesX-Fade, I'd never have seen that one coming.23:58
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* GeneralAntilles slaps dneary for Maemo.org23:58
dnearyThat must have been automatic capitalisation of the first letter in the sentence23:59
X-FadeGeneralAntilles: Heh, well more repos tomorrow ;)23:59

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